# Hole on head!!



## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi!
Ok I noticed last night as I was checking on the boy's and their snail's that Jet has like a big chunk of like scales missing on his head, and underneath is white (do fish have skull's? Do red fish have white skin? Jet is a mutt King veiltail betta maybe he's made different).

The only thing that I know could have did this is his snail (right now the snail is hiding in the plants so I can't get a picture, its a medium sized black mystery snail) He kept poking at the snail, and the snail (I just bought them, has a bit of a ragged shell)

My question is, should I treat this with salt, do scales grow back (if it is that) 
Thankx for ur help.


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## karlhague (Aug 9, 2010)

JaspersANGEL said:


> Hi!
> Ok I noticed last night as I was checking on the boy's and their snail's that Jet has like a big chunk of like scales missing on his head, and underneath is white (do fish have skull's? Do red fish have white skin? Jet is a mutt King veiltail betta maybe he's made different).
> 
> The only thing that I know could have did this is his snail (right now the snail is hiding in the plants so I can't get a picture, its a medium sized black mystery snail) He kept poking at the snail, and the snail (I just bought them, has a bit of a ragged shell)
> ...




Yes Scales grow back, Do NOT treat with salt whilst hes in the same tank as the snail..

As salt Will Kill the snail


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

I have a salt bath tank


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

well, my fish is losing scales too. im treating her with betta fix and epsom salt, seeing what might happen. im crossing my fingers!


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Ya i'll start salt baths on him on tuesday or somthing..

i have a hospital tank where i give him the salt bath, that means i have to take the net and fish him out. I hate doing that cause he's big enough to do himself some damage (he already does) he thrashes around like a mad man in the net and he hurts his right fin, and im just scared that one day he'll hurt it to the point that he won't be able to use it anymore.

do any of u guys have any alternatives to the net, i could use..and one that takes in the less water possible, cause he's going in the salty water anyways.

thankx


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

it looks worse in real than in the pictures ( he still spazzes out alot, for him it's normal lol)

it actually wraps around his right eye and starts at his upper lip and goes down his head

actually i think it grew (the whole got wider)

is it missing scalles? 

ima take the snail out tonight and see


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

..I highly doubt it was the snail. Snails don't attack live fish xD and its highly unlikely they could cause that kind of damage anyway.
Its likely he scraped his head on one of the decorations in the tank....I've seen this happen plenty of times. Just go through and check for anything even mildly sharp in his tank, then remove/replace it.

How big is his usual tank and how big is the hospital tank? I, personally, don't like salt baths in most cases...moving the fish in and out of salty water, IMHO, causes more harm then good since its got to be rather stressful on the fish. In some cases it may be appropriate, but in this case I don't think so. 
Either leave him in the hospital tank with salt(assuming is at least a gallon)and preform daily 100% water changes, or remove the snail, add salt to his main tank(1tsp per gallon), and up your water changes a bit(depending on the tank size). He should heal up eventually with warm, clean, salted water


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

He's in a 5g. and the hospital tank is a 1/2 g. (I should call it a hospital container instead *lol*)
I hate giving him salt baths for the reasons I gave on my earlier post, he goes nuts in the net and hurts himself. So I'll most likely remove the snail and dose his tank wit salt. 
I could switch him with Romad or Tex, both are in 2.5g.'s ( Romad's tank would be better it's practically empty). Since I would probably need to do a 100% after to take the salt out of the tank..it would be easier with a 2.5g.
But he'll have to suffer another trip in the net to do the switch...
What do u guys think?

I do all my water changes at once,,y not..so the 5g. gets a water only water change on mondays and a water change along with a vacumm on fridays.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Is your 5 gallon cycled? How often are you normally changing the water and how much?
I wouldn't swich tanks around.....just to be on the safe side. You never know.

I don't use a net for any sort of water change....I save the cups I get them in and scoop them out, the accumulate them back in after the change. Its a LOT less stressful. 
If I MUST get them out of the water without a cup I usually use my hand...I rarely use the net. for my bettas.
If your tank is cycled and your only doing partial water changes...theres no need to remove him at all.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

My 5 g. is not cycled..no 
I change the water twice a week, exact schedual is in my earlier post. I change 85% or so..

Yea great idea, as soon as I posted that I could switch my fish tanks I regreted it 

I leave the fish in when I do my water changes.

But to recap:
I take the snail out
I dose Jet's tank with salt.. for how long?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

...If the 5 gallon is uncycled, you should be doing at least one 100% change a week. Partial water changes in-between are just fine, but you need that 100% water change in any uncycled tank to get rid of ALL the ammonia...if you just keep doing partials, whatever ammonia is left over will build up overtime and harm or kill your fish.
2.5 gallons should get 2-3 100% changes per week, just so you know.

To help keep the water cleaner while treating for the 5, bump the 100% up to a couple times per week and perhaps do a couple 30%-50%s in between your 100%s. Remember, when dong partials, only add salt equivalent to the water you took out 

Yup, take snail out and dose with salt(be sure to fully dissolve before adding). Do this until hes healed.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

100% water changes are not ideal with my work schedual but i could maybe make fridays water change a 100% one.

the reason i don't do a 100% water change is i dunno how to do them exactely
could u tell me perhaps
and thank u

I also have two marimo moss ball's in the tank (wich i feed with plant fertz. ) do I take them out too or they'll be fine with the salt


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

A 100% change isn't going to take you any longer then a partial....I currently have 5 uncycled tanks, each take me only about 10 minutes(if even that)each to change. 

The process is VERY simple....scoop your betta out in the cup the came in, take the tank, empty it, rinse deco/gravel/tank in warm water, set everything back up and re-fill. Be sure add water conditioner and salt(if needed). Float your bettas cup for a few minutes, empty out have the water in the cup, add some of the fresh water, let them float again for a few more minutes, then release. Thats all there is too it 
You CAN cycle the 5 gallon if you don't want to do full water changes...but you'll still have to do 50%s about once a week, and you'll be doing partial water changes almost every day during the cycling process. You'll also need to purchase a liquid test kit, if you don't already have one.
If your interested, I can dig up some links for you...

If I recall, plants don't do well with salt....probably want to remove them as well during treatment.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Well I took the snail out of Jet's tank last night, and oh my the smell coming out of that small thing was rancid, figured it died (Jet avenged himself!! go Jet *lol*!!), so I chucked it.

Looking in at my other two boys, I noticed that my small baby Tex has scales missing too (from picking at his snail). Oh boy did I really get mad at said snail now (funny no matter how much Tex grow's he'll always stay my baby, and how attached we get to them)
And he's still picking at his snail (never imagined Tex as agresive) so tonight i'll decide what to do with his snail.

Romad has one small white spot on his head, but otherwise ok and is now ignoring his snail. So since his is the most active and nicely colored, and his tank is a bit empty I'm gonna keep that one.
Calling him Cognac!

So I'm gonna do a water change when I get home and dose Jet's and maybe Tex's tank's with salt.

Oh I need to remove the carbon from Jet's filter first!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah...chances are if your snail smells, then its dead ;P

...Again, I highly doubt the snail is the culprit. They have to be scraping themselves on something.....might want to go through all your tanks and remove/replace any potentially sharp objects/plants. I find it odd this is happening with all your fish though...

You should remove the snails from the 2.5s anyway....thats way too small for anything besides a single betta and snails produce a LOT of waste.

I'm pretty sure you don't need to remove the carbon for salt treatment....how long have you had the filter media in your tank? Carbon is pretty much inactive after a week or so anyway....
And why not cycle your tank if you have it filtered? It would make water changes a lot easier...


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

just changed Tex's tank and settled him in with salt 
do can I feed them with the salt in there water


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

ok salt bad Tex just did a coma thing on me I'm re-cleaning his tank well atleast he got his salt bath
do u know how to rid a tank of salt?

I'll just give Jet a whirl in Tex's tank since it's already salted is that ok


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

well since Jet seems to be fine in the salted tank, i'll leave him in there for a week
and Tex is enjoying the 5 g. for the week, cause he's such a good boy. *lol* he's certainly enjoying all the plants, hopefully he'll recover from his shock soon I'm really worried.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Update: Tex survived the night and is feeling much better, he is now exploring the 5 g. and even flaring a bit. Will turn off the lights in the tank soon, I still want him to take it easy tho.

And Jet is looking better already, water change for him again today.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

ok I have a question and it really has to be answered by tomorrow night cause that's when i do my watter changes

Jet is looking so much better some red is actually growing over the white hole should i keep him in the salted water till his head is completely better or should i return him to his home


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## small fry (Oct 14, 2010)

The "hole in your fish's head" sounds like a bacterial infection. I've heard that serious bacterial infections will put "holes" in the fish's head and body. Also, you do an 85% water change multiple times a week in your 5gal? Have you tested for ammonia? Is your tank filtered? With a filter you shouldn't need to do so many large water changes with a filtered tank. Hope this helps!
(BTW I use a cup when transpoting my betta Tony)


===============-
10gal GatorSwamp
10gal CichlidRock
1.5gal Buried Treasure


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

The "hole" was/is a white wound, it seemed a bit sunken, but it looks to be healing.
He doesn't act sick at all.

Yes I do a 85% water change twice per week, one only water..one with the vacuum, i got two 2.5's so i do the 5 at the same time, i just heard the more water changes the better.

no i don't test for ammonia, i have a ammonia test kit tho.
my tank has a filter.

i do it while im already all covered in fish water and have the stuff out
its like killing two birds with one stone *lol*
and he looks the happier for it


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

update on Jet: he's looking so much better..no scales yet but the whole grew over with red skin


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