# I am having a bad problem :(



## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, I got my Bettas last Friday (1 female and 1 male) from a local privately owned pet store (the man that owns it takes excellent care of his animals especially fish) Here are the profiles of my fish:
1. Male:
 a. He is extremely colorful with a bright red body and fins that taper until they are perfectly clear, then there is black that outlines the clearness (beautiful!) 
b. He is around 1 inch long in just body length.
2 Female:
a. Beautiful red and blue mix with black spots on her fins. 
8. She is well over an inch long probably like an inch and a half.

Well that wraps up their descriptions, so here are my problems:
I got the breeding tank set up as instructed by several people experienced in betta breeding. It has the usual:

10 gallon tank (half filled with water)
Floating plants (hornwart)
Places for the female to hide
And a white egg carton cut in half for the male to build his bubble nest under.

Now onto the real problem...
I put the female in a 1 gallon round class container and I put it on one site of the breeding tank. (P.S. the same tank that she is supposed to normally live in)
I made her water level higher than the males so she doesn't have to see him all of the time. I put the male into the tank and he began flaring (he looked amazing), but the female instantly turned a pale yellowish color with dark horizontal stripes going from her head to her tail. (I have heard that horizontal means she doesn't want to breed and vertical means she wants to.) So here is my dilemma, why wont she breed? They have been in that tank for 1 night and she still looks the same. Is anything wrong? Is she to old? Answers would be greatly appreciated.

~Iman


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

She seems stressed out. I'd remove her and keep her out of sight from all bettas for a week and then try again.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

But, would you say she is to old?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well, I got my Bettas last Friday (1 female and 1 male) from a local privately owned pet store (the man that owns it takes excellent care of his animals especially fish) Here are the profiles of my fish:
1. Male:
a. He is extremely colorful with a bright red body and fins that taper until they are perfectly clear, then there is black that outlines the clearness (beautiful!) 
*That could be fin rot*
b. He is around 1 inch long in just body length.
2 Female:
a. Beautiful red and blue mix with black spots on her fins. 
8. She is well over an inch long probably like an inch and a half.

Well that wraps up their descriptions, so here are my problems:
I got the breeding tank set up as instructed by several people experienced in betta breeding. It has the usual:
*Is this your first time owning bettas? If so I suggest you stick to just taking care of them for a while and wait a few months before thinking about breeding. It is a BIG responsibility.*

10 gallon tank (half filled with water)
Floating plants (hornwart)
Places for the female to hide
And a white egg carton cut in half for the male to build his bubble nest under.

Now onto the real problem...
I put the female in a 1 gallon round class container and I put it on one site of the breeding tank. (P.S. the same tank that she is supposed to normally live in). *Did you condition the bettas first? Also, If you can afford to breed, you cab afford to get her a better tank (not trying to be rude). I suggest a 2.5 gallon aquarium if you are tight on space.*
I made her water level higher than the males so she doesn't have to see him all of the time. I put the male into the tank and he began flaring (he looked amazing), but the female instantly turned a pale yellowish color with dark horizontal stripes going from her head to her tail. (I have heard that horizontal means she doesn't want to breed and vertical means she wants to.) 
*That isn't a good sign. Those are stress bars, I would take her out now.*
So here is my dilemma, why wont she breed?
*She isn't ready.*
They have been in that tank for 1 night and she still looks the same. Is anything wrong? Is she to old? 
*The bettas may be too old because they came from a petstore. There they are typically about 6 months old.*
Answers would be greatly appreciated.


Could you tell me EXACTLY what steps you took?
Thanks


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

1. Came home from the pet store with my fish.
2. Put the male in a 2 gallon tank
3. I put the female in a 5 gallon tank with a filter.
4. I got the breeding tank set up.
5. waited 4 hours for the water temp to stabilize.
6. Added the male and female.
7. Female has horizontal stripes.
Also I have owned 3-4 bettas (one of which lived 3 years and the others lived 2)

Also how is 6 months old to old to breed? I heard they stop at around 14 months.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

I took the female out I just need to know how to solve this problem for next time.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I hate to say it but you didn't take all the necessary steps.

You should have let them rest for a few days. Pet store life can be stressful. You also should have conditioned them separately for about a week. And you also didn't do the proper steps to introducing them. Are you sure you researched this? (not trying to be mean).

Can you post a pic of your setup?

Also, what live foods do you have prepared?


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Well I just took apart the setup, but the foodthat I have are microworms. And what are the correct steps to introduce the fish to each other? I have researched it some what. I am following the shallow spawn method of breeding. 
Read this: http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=723
I have the breeding tank set up like the shallow spawn in this way, with a few shallow spawn changes added. http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=722


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree with what has already been said. You need to condition them to breed. Even in a well cared for pet store environment life is still stressful and care is not adequate enough to keep fish in breeding condition.

My recommendation would be to separate the pair and condition them on frozen or live foods for at least 2 weeks. This will give you a chance to not only get them fit to breed but also to quarantine them to make sure they are not carrying any hidden illness. 

I'll also second the recommendation that you get the proper set up. You need a separate tank to house the male, female, and fry respectively. You also need a fairly large tank to grow the fry out in. The smallest recommendation is 10 gallons with 20+ being preferable.

What foods do you have to feed the fry? Besides water quality food is the second most important thing in rearing fry. Not only do you need a lot of foods but you need good foods that the fry will want to eat so they can grow.


In well conditioned, healthy fish 6 months is not too old to breed. Many breeders have fish spawning upwards of 2 years old. However there are some theories that the older the fish are the more likely genetic defects are to pop up in the spawn. Many people say that the younger the fish are the easier they breed but I don't think that's necessarily true. A good breeder is going to breed no matter what age.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks, to the live food I have micro worms. Are those good enough?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

They should be fine but I would also suggest adding some other food when they get about 2-4 weeks old. My personal preference in foods is vinegar eels and microworms until 2 weeks old, microworms and frozen BBS until 4 weeks, then frozen bbs from 4 weeks until they are big enough for frozen daphnia (anywhere from 6+ weeks IME), after that I begin incorporating NLS growth formula pellets.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Do you have a heater?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Only for a week or so. You will need baby brine shrimp and later small frozen food.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for the answers, and concerning my male bettas fins I put in some Marofix


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Do you have a heater?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

hey, your not alone in this situation. i have a pair that is doing the exact same thing. remove her, isolate her from the male for good. feed her live bloodworms or live food for about 2 weeks then try it again. also, the first thing that popped up in my head is this:

male:
just over an inch in body length

female:
about an inch and a half in body length

generally the male should be the bigger one. if you have a large female with a small male, he might not be able to be big enough to wrap around her, etc. and like everyone probably already said, let her rest for at least 2 weeks and try again. waiting is hard, believe me. i found out the hard way. my fish actually had vertical stripes, but when i placed her in with the male, all she did was run and hide, because he was too aggressive. then she lost her vertical stripes and they turned to horizontal. so, just take her out and keep them seperate. condition both of them. but usually, the female would have to be smaller than the male, i can't believe no one else saw this...

a heater will make them more ready though. its not necessarily an essential if you have a warm enough house, but betta fish reside from thailand, and it is a very hot climate there.

just trust me, and all the other people here. maybe not everyone, but people like turtle, oldfishlady, 1fish2fish. they are the guys you definately want to listen to every word they say. i went against their words like a fool and it just bit me in the butt. dont make my mistakes! please!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

jschristian44 said:


> hey, your not alone in this situation. i have a pair that is doing the exact same thing. remove her, isolate her from the male for good. feed her live bloodworms or live food for about 2 weeks then try it again. also, the first thing that popped up in my head is this:
> 
> male:
> just over an inch in body length
> ...





jschristian44 said:


> a heater will make them more ready though. its not necessarily an essential if you have a warm enough house, but betta fish reside from thailand, and it is a very hot climate there.


 I don't think you are in the position to be handing out information.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

MrVampire181 said:


> I don't think you are in the position to be handing out information.


at least you can see that he IS taking in the information that has been given to him
Good job justin !


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well am i wrong to say that the male should be a little larger? i know a heater is strongly recommended, but my betta did fine in temps like 70 degrees.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> well am i wrong to say that the male should be a little larger? i know a heater is strongly recommended, but my betta did fine in temps like 70 degrees.


A betta always appears "fine" to most people in that temperature, but are they active? swimming around? being curious? No. Anything below 76 is too cold for a betta, no matter what. Please dont spread false info to someone who is just as new as _you_ are to betta breeding.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

For breeding, I'd say a heater is a must. Having the proper equipment is a must before spawning.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

For proper growth proper heating is a must. Fry just won't grow well at 76 degrees... Much less 70.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok, the temperature in the room I have the bettas in and for breeding is 72 degrees. I do have a basement with a fire place that we use to heat the house that stays upwards of 75 at all times. 
Oh, yeah check out this link for my other weird ex: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=583162#post583162


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

So you are going to have the fireplace on all day and night?


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Yeah I load it up real full with wood at night, and it is still burning in the morning (a brand new modern fireplace)


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Okay well unless you can maintain the fire so the room stays at a constant temperature, get a heater. Also, the water is a few degrees colder than room temp.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

I have a tank thermometer, thats tells me the water is 75


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

That is too cold. Bettas need water at about 78-82. For spawning they need it in the high 80s.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok, I will try to get a heater.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Don't breed without one.


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## Iman (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the info.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

turtle10 said:


> That is too cold. Bettas need water at about 78-82. For spawning they need it in the *high* 80s.


High 80s? o.o I hope you don't mean over 85ºF ;-) 82º-84ºF is good~


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Tsuhei said:


> High 80s? o.o I hope you don't mean over 85ºF ;-) 82º-84ºF is good~


Lol I guess I meant to say in the 80s, a bit higher than normal. Yeah looking back now I see people would read that as like 86-89. Whoops *blushes*


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