# Betta With Back-Problem (PLEASE READ!)



## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

I never really noticed it, but I have a Betta fever of 104! 
I really need everyone’s help urgently, so please read!!!
A week ago, I went into my LFS and saw something crazy. In a tank, full of angelfish, was a plain, red, veil-tale Betta SWIMMING AROUND WITH THE ANGELFISH! Immediately, I panicked, and urgently told the pet-store guy about it.
Well, he said that that Betta had serious back-problems, and couldn’t swim properly. So, he had just put him in a proper tank so he could scoot around on the bottom. Sure enough, he was scooting around on the bottom of the tank, struggling to swim around, but very much alive.
I watched him for about ten minutes, and by the end of those ten minutes I was in love. “Talia,” I told myself, “you don’t have the space, the money, or the guts to deal with another Betta- especially one who’s just going to die.”
Well, the next day, I found myself in that pet store. There he was, scooting around, looking at me with that funny little face. The thing about him was that even if he couldn’t swim, he was very much alive. Part of me doubted that he would die quickly. He seemed totally healthy, and really alive and interactive.
At that point, I wanted him so bad. I left though, reminding myself that I didn’t have the money to pay 150$ on another Betta set-up.
Well, the next day, my friend called me and told me that she had a spare tank. Her Betta Sumi had just died, and she didn’t want another tank.
I picked it up, telling myself that it would come in handy, trying not to think about the guy who couldn’t swim. When I went back to the LFS today, I was convinced. I need that Betta!
So, now, I need your help. The tank I got is TEMPORARY, as it is a drum-shaped 2 gallon, small and not very pretty. It is quite tall, though, about 12 inches, and it won’t have very much floor space (8 inches?)
Do you think this tank will qualify?
Of course, I can always get another. What I’m REALLY worried about is the fishy.
Will he die in the next month or something? And if I do get him, will I have to take care of him differently from any other Betta?
Help needed urgently. PLEASE REPLY!!!!
Thanks!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

When you say back problem...what do you mean...is he deformed in some way or is it more buoyancy...can you make and post a video so we can see what you mean....

The 2gal should be fine without a filter, however, if he is having swimming problems you may want to keep the water level low to help him get to the top without having to struggle so much until we can figure out what is going on....I would also go ahead and add Epsom salt (Magnesium sulfate) 2tsp/gal in his water...he may need this on a long term basis...what is the water temp and is he eating.....

I would also cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain the heat and humidity for the labyrinth organ.....


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, he's still at the petstore, so I don't know all these things. I don't have a video of him, but I'll try and explain.

He has a hunchback, and I assume that is what is causing his problems. He'll try and swim upwards, but he just sinks back onto the ground. He is totally mobile though, and scoots around using the gravel to support him.

Thanks for the tip about the salt. I'm sorry, but what is Epsom Salt? I've never used salt with my fish, so I don't really know how. Can you get it at a petstore?

Will keep the water level quite low. Do you think, though, that this will give him too little swimming space? Well, I suppose he won't be swimming much 

Thanks!!


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

epsom salt you'd get at a pharmacy or pharmacy section at most stores. make sure you get the plain unscented, no added colors type


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh, okay, thanks!!
I lowered the water level in the tank. Does anyone have any idea if he will die or not? Has any one here had a betta that had back-problems?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I would ask if he's eating well and spend some time observing him. You'll know better after watching how he acts. And also ask how long he's been like that and what kind of, if any treatments the owner has given him. If he's only been like that for a few days, then it's possible he hasn't had time to develop the probems that may come with back issues. Beyond that, it's anyone's call. If he eats and moves well and doesn't seem to be in pain, and you're willing to adjust your habits for him, I'd say he could make a good pet. But he may need bottom feeder food if he can't rise to the surface easily. And a lot of plants that have broad, flat leaves to lay on if he does get any higher off the ground. He sounds like a little charmer though, a real fighter.


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## JamesJr8 (Jun 14, 2011)

I agree with the above post. If he can't swim too high, then lower water is a must. Just like people, fish and other animals can be born with abnormalities. Possibly ask the fish store if he came in like that, or if something happened while he was there that caused it.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, he eats totally fine, but I do have to feed him live blackworms. This is because he can get them down below, and that's what they fed him in the petstore. Yuck! I don't like the idea of feeding live worms to my fish, but I guess that's what I'll have to do... oh, the things we do for our fish.

Interesting post, Sakura, about the plants, because that's what Muffin has been doing. I have a plant in there with thick leaves, and I notice that he rests on it like a little bed  So cute!

His fins look SUPER ripped though, almost to the point that they are in ribbons. That's something I need to work on immediately. Any suggestions?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Just ripped, not fin rot? Aquarium salt, then, and tannins. Wonder if the angels picked on him? 

Feed the worms with tweezers. That way you don't have to actually, you know, touch them. *shudders*

It sounds like the pet store took surprisingly good care of him considering the odds of their making a profit off of him. That's great. In at least a few of my pet stores, he would have been put down instead of anyone making an effort on him.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Yeah, they were really good with him. Aparently, they feed live worms to all there bettas (so that's why they wouldn't eat pellets!), and personally, i think that's the sign of a good petstore.

Muffin is doing well... I've slowly been adjusting him to freeze-dried blood-worms. Believe it or not, he actually made a bubblenest!!
Wow, and I though that he wouldn't even be able to get to the surface!!!!

Yes, he has no fin rot, just completely torn up fins. I'll be getting some aquarium salt soon. Just wondering, what are the doses for a partially filled 2 gallon (more like 1.5 gallon) tank?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's 1 tsp per gallon, so about a teaspoon and a half.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Okay, thanks. Will try it out!!!


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Just a suggestion on the salt treatment. Get a 1 gallon jug, fill that with water and mix the salt into that. This way you don't have to guess on the exact amount of salt needed.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh, okay! Thanks! Will try that! 
Update: Muffin now fully eats freeze-dried bloodworms. I'm going to try, tonight, to see if he'll eat pellets. Tomorrow I'm going to do a water-change! Hope he won't be too stressed!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pics, pics! Unless you have a thread in the pic section. I always forget to check that.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh, no, i don't. I'll try to go to a internet cafe tommorow and download the pics from my phone. They'll probably be hear by Monday


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Loryen said:


> Oh, no, i don't. I'll try to go to a internet cafe tommorow and download the pics from my phone. They'll probably be hear by Monday


Muffin sounds like such a cutie. Was he stressed by the water change?


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Yeah, actually, he was. He seemed really freaked, especially when I scooped water out of the tank, but now he's totally fine. Today he gorged himself on pellets- LOL! Now I feed him 3 Hikari Baby Pellets in the morning, and a pinch of FD bloodworms in the night.
Today I went out to get some meds. Currently, I'm dosing on BettaFix and Aquarium Salt. 

BTW, thanks, Sakura8 for all the help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No problem, I haven't done much, you've done all the work.  Sorry to hear he got a little stressed by the water change. But he'll probably get used to it, since the way we do water changes are different from the way they do them in big tanks at pet stores. But it's amazing what a little food can do to a betta's short term memory. :lol: Water change, what water change? Mm, pellets.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Yeah, thanks. Will let you know how it goes. I will post a pic soon, but his fins seem to be joining at the end... their light and transparent almost at the rims. Is this a good or a bad sign?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Which fins and how so? Do you mean the tears on his fins are joining at the ends? If so, the transparent part is the new fin membrane. That would mean he's healing.  But if you mean some of his fins are fusing together, then that's a whole new problem.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Hmmm.... well, you know how on a half-moon betta (like the one in your pic) there's kind of three major fin sections...?

Well, those three main sections all have transparent tips. That's where he was ripped. So, I'm assuming that's good....???


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## animallover4lyfe (Jul 7, 2010)

I actually have a betta im caring for at work that has the exact same problem actually. The most important thing is to keep the water level low enough so he doesnt struggle to the top. That alone will be exhausting for the betta if he has to travel far to get to the top so a longer length but short tank would be best. If he is eating and active im sure he will be fine, iv been caring for my betta at work for several weeks now and
He is doing great! His colour has actually improved and i would suggest doing lots of frequent water changes. I do not think he will ever recover from what he has its probably something he was born with! I hope i helped!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Loryen said:


> Hmmm.... well, you know how on a half-moon betta (like the one in your pic) there's kind of three major fin sections...?
> 
> Well, those three main sections all have transparent tips. That's where he was ripped. So, I'm assuming that's good....???


Oh, I see, you mean the dorsal fin (top), caudal fin (tail) and anal fin (bottom one on the stomach)? Yes, transparent tips are a good sign.  Poor guy, back trouble AND he's got to lug around a heavy halfmoon tail. Like an old lady with a Dolly Parton bust. 

I'm glad his fins are growing back. animallover, great tips. A shallow tank would definitely be good for this guy (no Fluval Chi tank, too tall).


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks for the good news! Muffin (yes, I WILL get pics up  ) has actually become really beautiful. The scales on his body have turned darker, so his whole body is a dark red, and his fins have started to develop these metallic blue streaks 

So prettyyy!!!!

I have no idea if he is a half-moon or a veil-tale (beauty or the beast? LOL), and I will put pics up soon. He doesn't have that veil-tale droop, but I can't imagine him being a half-moon... I mean, he was a petstore betta.

He's started flaring at me, and now he does things like swimming around and building bubble-nests. Here's something I made....


MUFFIN'S GROWTH-CHART

When he was at the petstore: Scooted around bottom of tank, struggled to surface to breath, tried to survive the Angelfish nips!!

When I got him: Scooted around bottom and occasionally rested at top, easier trips to the surface, started eating more and getting fatter

Now (10 days after I got him): Swimming around more than scooting at the bottom, easily comes to the surface, eats like a pig, started eating pellets and loves them,fins healing, flares at me without a mirror, doesn't get freaked when I do a water-change, color developing beutifully, getting fatter...


Thanks so much to everyone who helped me with him... I don't really need your help anymore, but I'll keep you posted on Muffin! Pictures to come soon!!~!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

Its so good to hear that Muffin is doing better. 
I just received a betta from a pet-store. He is in the same condition as your Muffin was when you got him.
I hope he heals as well as your boy did.
Any good pointers?


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Wow,good job for rescuing him 

Just keep the water leval low, add a bunch of plants near the surface that he can rest on, if you have a filter, keep the turbulence low, feed lots of fatty foods so he can get his strengh, and just love him loads.

I need some help here... Muffin flared at me the other day, and I got a good look at his tail. He's def not a half-moon, because his tale has three very different sections, in sort of oval shapes... does that make any sense??

I looked at some pics, and I think he's a 'spade tail', or maybe just a small veil tale...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sounds like he's a triple tail! Definitely get a pic of that when you can, I'm having a hard time visualizing it.  Also, it's possible he did start as a halfmoon but the angels just nipped his fins so much they split. Watch for growth in between the sections that might indicate his tail is growing together. My VT girl got in a scuff with my VT male when she hopped his divider during my siesta; now her tail is in two sections like a doubletail, but I can see growth between the two pieces. Lots of bettas get their tails split down the middle for one reason or another. Either way, Muffin is a definite individual from tip to tail. :-D


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

LOL, thanks! Will try and get a pic up... this is what he looks like (not him, but tail type is the same)


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Looks like he's a veiltail with spade tail tendencies? Handsome boy, if his tail looks like that. Yes, a pic when you can.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Hmm... I do think he may be a veiltale, still, because his tale isn't as sharply defined as that. Well, today I did a full water change. He got a little freaked out, but now he's fine  How do you guys like bettafix as a med?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Most people advise against bettafix and melafix. The tea trea oil in, I think that's it, can damage the labyrinth organ. Aquarium salt is best if it's not a very bad injury/disease. I'm glad he didn't freak out too much for his water change.


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## Jrf456 (Jun 23, 2011)

Epsom salt should help.

A 2g tank is perfectly fine, bettas need at least one gallon so that is plenty.

I had a fish just like this.. She swam on the bottom of the tank.. She died in 3 days.. But who knows if yours is different.


Good luck!


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## bettaloverforever16 (Jan 14, 2011)

Espom salt is for bloating, not injuries. ^^

I'm so glad he's gotten stronger!! It always make you feel good inside when you rescue a betta.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks, everyone for the nice comments 

@Sakura8- Thx. Would you advise that I stop using bettafix and just the salt?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, just the salt would probably work best. He sounds like he has so much personality.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Okay! I've mixed the salt with some water, and every time I see him I add 3 milimeters to the tank  He seems very happy and fine... he eats so much! When I feed him, after he eats he stays up at the top and gives me the eyes "please, mummy, please give me one more... pppplllleeeeaaassseeee!!!!""

Oh, it's so hard to resist him


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## bettaloverforever16 (Jan 14, 2011)

Glad to hear he's doing well!!


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## CrowntailTwitchy57 (Jun 25, 2011)

hahaha my betta's the same way... but i think he's bloated, it looks like he swallowed a marble, lol i fasted him and he was fine but now he's fat again! ggggrrrrr! well, glad to see your betta's ok, now i just gotta put mine on a diet


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Loryen said:


> Okay! I've mixed the salt with some water, and every time I see him I add 3 milimeters to the tank  He seems very happy and fine... he eats so much! When I feed him, after he eats he stays up at the top and gives me the eyes "please, mummy, please give me one more... pppplllleeeeaaassseeee!!!!""
> 
> Oh, it's so hard to resist him


The eyes. I hate the eyes. Why are they so good at the eyes? And the wiggle dance. Anything but the wiggle dance. The only thing that keeps me from giving in is thinking about bloated bettas. Works every time.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

LOL, the wiggle dance is what does it for me! Today something bad happened... he was flaring at me, and i noticed that the transparent parts of his fins which are just growing in have got ripped again! I have no idea what caused it, as I didn't catch him or anything like that. The only change I've made is taking away the BettaFix! Should I start using it again????


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Fin rips happen all the time, unfortunately. Try just keeping the water clean for a few days. His fins might be more fragile for a while until he gets back to full health too.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks, did a full-clean today. I'm going away for 2 weeks and I hope my parents will look after them proplerly


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I hope so too. Muffin's come so far, he's been doing so well.  You're taking such good care of him.


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> I hope so too. Muffin's come so far, he's been doing so well.  You're taking such good care of him.


Thanks, I really hope he makes it through! He's a tough little boy, though :lol:


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Are his back issues resolved? (sorry I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages)


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## Loryen (Feb 16, 2011)

LOL! Well, hr still doesn't swim quite like a normal fish, but he's soo active! Right now I'm at my grandparents place, so no wi fi  But when I go to my counsins, I'll post a couple videos. Thankfully, my parents are taking care of him. (I'm travelling)


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad he's active. Who cares if he doesn't swim quite right as long as he stays healthy.  Have fun traveling!


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## lessandler (Jun 5, 2011)

*possible fish tuberculosis?*

When you say "back problems" is his spine bent? I had a betta fish I "rescued" who clearly was going to die any day and had some slight deformities. He did live and thrive for years under ideal conditions (filtered heated 6 gallon) but died with a severely bent spine and emaciation. He never lived wth any other creatures so when I discovered he had fish tuberculosis it was clear he had it from the start.

It was quite alarming because fish tuberculosis is contagious to humans and very very difficult to eradicate from tanks. Eventually I threw the entire set up (a fluval edge with all accessories) away for fear of spreading and contracting it.

Don't mean to be an alarmist, but please look up if his symptoms look like ones listed on the net. It is possible to manage it in the fish and they can live for some time, but you need to be careful if you have any cuts on your hands when handling the tank.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Wow, and Fluval Edges ain't cheap either. I knew fish TB was bad, I just had no idea it was THAT hard to get rid of. :shock: But I would almost certainly have done the same thing rather than risk any more fish getting it.


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## lessandler (Jun 5, 2011)

The problem is that you need to use pool grade powdered bleach, not the regular kind, can't remember what it is called. And it's pretty toxic to work with if you are not careful. I have saved the edge and all accessories to give to anyone willing to go through the process.

Not to hijack the thread but it's free to anyone in the area and includes fluval heater, biorb siphon, bucket, natural gravel and everything I used (I know I am a bit paranoid but I really did not want to spread the disease to other fish and I have a bad habit of biting my cuticles). Think I should post it? I really do feel these little tanks shouldn't house more than a betta anyway so maybe I will post it somewhere here. Is there a free supplies area?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I know you can post equipment/tanks on Aquabid. Or try Craigslist, then you can work locally.


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