# why are dals so.... hard to find?



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

in breeding stock, i mean. on Aquabid. it's hard to find orange bettas with red spots, which is my favorite dal coloration. i've noticed, they're often called "dot", like "orange dot halfmoon male". but, even then, it's hard to find what i want. 

my dream, is to start a line of orange dals. fin type, doesn't matter, but i'd rather shy away from HMs. after browsing Aquabid, i've found three that match what i like. two, are Hms, one's an HMPK dragon with light cream dragon scales over an orange body with red fin spots. my dream won't happen any time soon(maybe after i get a job, and more room to actually set up the tanks and such), but i'd still like to get a feel for the "perfect dal". i know what i WANT. >.> it's my first betta, Zach. lol i won't find another like him, even in VT dals.

that's another thing. o.0 i'd love to start a VT line. but, it's impossible, i know. so much inbreeding, i guess, ruined the VT lines. or, so i've heard. 

another question for you all. my lps sometimes sells dal VTs. their bettas, in my opinion, are pretty well-bred. i've never seen horrid dips in the head, or terrible finnage, or any other defects you usually find in pet store bettas. if you'd like to see what all i've gotten from them, and judge for yourself, here's my FB album(just tell me if you can't view them. i have it set to public, so you should): http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1428554713&aid=2065711

if i were to take a dal VT from them, find a pretty female on, say, Aquabid who matches, but is HM or HMPK, what would i get if i breed them? could i improve the finnage on the babies by doing that? would i get dals in the babies? o.0 sorry. >.> i may know alot about breeding bettas, but genetics are another story. xD i've heard, you have to breed a dal female, with a dal male if you want dal babies. i think i read that on BettySplendens somewhere...

anyways, thanks for reading. thanks for putting up with my stupid. thanks for helping. :3​


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Genetics are rather confusing. Even I often get confused since my memory often hangs. Lol.

If I'm not mistaken, Dals are a rather new mutation made up of many genetic codes. So it should be rather unstable - If you cross it to a non dal, you would probably get non dal. So you need 2 dal to definitely get more dals. 

I disagree that VTs carry the most genetic flaw. In terms of form, IMO they are better than many modern type bettas. And I have never seen a VT with fin curls. But it is true that they are often inbred thus inherit negative characters of the parents/uncle/ or whatever (such as tail biting).

I also disagree that pet store bettas should not be bred due to their bad genes. IMO, as long as you know what to look for and how to breed out unwanted genes, then they are as good as show bettas (genetic wise).

So you can get a dal from your lps and then get another dal of the opposite sex from another place (aquabid/another breeder) and out cross them to get more dals. As for form, as long as you dont cross CT, you should be able to selectively breed them to reach your goal. My advice is that you use a newly bought dal, preferably HM, after 3 - 4 generations. Make 2 - 4 batches of F1 out of him and then cross the cousins. This should give you your own dal line. And the second out cross should reduce, if not eliminate, the problems of too much inbreeding.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

As Indjo said it's virtually impossible to actually create a line of orange dals because that color has not been proven to breed true. Even if you take two related dals and spawn them you'll get a wide variety of different reds, cambodians, oranges, and yes some dal.

I don't know if anyone has successfully created a true bred line of dals but to do so you would need to keep the best spotted fry and breed from there.

As far as I know no one is really quite sure how to get the dal pattern.. because the spots change it's thought that at least part of the phenotype has to do with the marble gene, and then you have the orange to deal with which is tricky to breed.

It's one of my projects I want to do eventually. I can't create lines now since I don't have the space to keep fish but once I do I will definitely be playing with orange dalmatian and seeing what I can get.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Come steal my orange dal ;D lololololol


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Or my white/ butterflyish dal XD


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i would totally steal your orange dal, PewPewPew! <3 they're my passion!

i do know, the lady from Betty Splendens had a line of orange dal HMs. she recently sold her breeding male, who i totally wanted to grab up if i had money at that time. maybe one day i'll ask her about it.

i'd heard most pet store bettas aren't good to breed. then, i started betta keeping big-time, getting many beautiful bettas from my lps. <3 they have everything, and the colors are so pretty, little-to-no genetic defects in the fish. i've never come across a truly deformed betta from them. Theo and his partial blindness is the worst i've seen. :3 pretty babies~

when i get some money and space, i'm gonna try to create a line of dals. i see white dals with blue or black spots all over AB, but so few orange with red spots. :d


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Fancy-bred tours have dalmatian ish spots too..
just get lucky! I found alle from walmart in my middle of nowhere town, and maccies in an equally nowhere place petsmart!! Good luck to you :3 <3


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

my lps randomly gets them in. when i got Theo, in fact, they had about five orange dals! it was a hard choice, but i went with Theo, and don't regret it. the hard part, will be finding a female orange and red dal! xD when i get some money and space, i'll fiddle with Dalmatian genetics, and try to figure them out. :3

edit: i KNEW i'd seen an article on range dals!
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1757


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Thats The article I found our what alle was from :3
The original orange dal!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it says, while no one knows where dals come from, the dal gene seems to be dominant. o3o makes me happeh.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

I might have an orange dal but he has a blue body. his name is poseidon.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

this is a really bad pic of him cause he is not in the lightt. but he is a VT


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

He's not an "orange" dalmation, I wouldnt say/dont think. "orange" dals are...Orange :B (like mine and a few other people's)
I actually dont know what his coloration is...But he seems to be a dalmatian at least!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i call that, a pineapple dal! there's one kinda like him at walmart. o3o


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i got him at my LFS. He is a strange fish. Not part of my breeding program. He is kinda my mascot. But I agree with PewPewPew. I do not really know his coloring. I will post some better pics in a new thread. Check it out.


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

did you see this post? It explains dalmation genetics a bit. may help you out...
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=64109


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

PitGurl said:


> did you see this post? It explains dalmation genetics a bit. may help you out...
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=64109


hehe. yep. :3 that article helped set my mind. i'm gonna try to create a beautiful line of dals one day! :3 maybe three lines, a line of VTs, HM, and HMPKs, cause i adore them all. it'll be hard, i gather, but it's something i adore. i love orange Dalmatians so much, and i want to see more of them around.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Dumb question/statement: I thought dals were supposed to have spots like the dal dog, not splashes(?). I guess I was wrong. 
I once saw a white with black spots on the body with white fins and another black with white spots (not splashes) on the body with butterfly fins. Are these considered as dals?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

if i'm not mistaking, the original Dalmatian was a VT, orange with red splotches. after that.... i'm not sure how the blues and blacks and other colors came to be. i see lots of Dals that are white with blue spots, white with black spots, ect.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I think color doesn't really matter, as long as they have spots. But does it matter where the spots are (body/fin). Are they all considered as dals.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

that's true. :3 but, my dream line is orange with red spots. <3


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