# Dropsy, SBD or constipation?



## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Hello everyone,
Its been months since I've posted here but I have been "lurking." I'm sorry for being so inactive 
My betta Kokomo who I've had for years now is sick and I'm having trouble coming up with a diagnosis:
I left him in my apartment in his filtered, heated (80 degrees) and planted 5 gallon tank for 5 days for Christmas break. In his tank was one of those "seven day betta feeder" tablets that was almost completely dissolved when I returned. I noticed when I got back that he was having trouble swimming to the surface to eat despite having the same large appetite as always. I moved him into a 1 gallon tank with his heater so that he could surface easier. To this tank I added about 1/4 teaspoon aquarium salt and bettafix. He was also fasted for a week but did not improve. He tries to swim but ends up falling back down and it's almost like he is being weighted down by his tail and has to drag himself around. He is still eating and moving around the small tank as much as he can but I think he's getting worse, I should mention that I see NO bloating at this point. 
I'm so sorry for such a long post, thank you so much for any advice you may be able to give me!


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## jeanclaudeasher (May 20, 2010)

Can you post a picture? My understanding of SBD is that they have a hard time swimming and when they are resting its usually at an odd angle (like on their sides or with their tail pointing towards the surface etc.) My one betta who got dropsy had obvious bloating before he started pineconing. The bloat did not go away even with fasting. Hopefully someone else might have an idea of what might be wrong


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Unfortunately my camera isn't working at the moment. He is definitely not bloated, but does rest at weird angles. What is the recommended treatment for SBD? I currently have bettafix, melafix, jungle fungus cure, and LifeGuard but I hate to use any of them without knowing what I'm treating. Thanks for the reply!


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## Ethan (Dec 3, 2010)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=57143

tell me if that helped the understanding of swimbladder disorder


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Ethan, Thanks for the info, I tried peas and he won't eat them. I now have him on Jungle anti bacteria medicated fish food which he seems to like. I am thinking about trying the lifeguard, has anyone used this with any luck? It claims to treat bacteria, fungus and parasites so I'm thinking it's my best bet since I don't know what's wrong with him. He is still eating and flaring but has a lot of trouble surfacing. Thanks again for your help!


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## Ethan (Dec 3, 2010)

yourwelcome I always like to help,

You can try feeding him daphnia
I've tried lifeguard by Tetra it seems to help a little I used on my female sorrity and my male who had clamped fins he started to get unclamped fins. Be cautios though one tablet by 5 gallon mark.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

If it is any kind of constipation or SBD then epsom salt 2 tsp/gallon should help him. Epsom salt is the treatment i have been using since oldfishlady recommended it. I start by doing a 100% water change and adding 1 tsp/gallon and raising it slowly to 2 tsp/gallon and if it doesnt work sometimes 3 tsp/ gallon.


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Since I've already started the life guard treatment is it safe to add epsom salt as well?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Most likely the combination of over eating on the feeder block and the ammonia that it caused he has an inflamed duct...as posted I would start him on an Epsom salt treatment for 10 days along with 100% daily water changes while in QT

Pre-mix your treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-add 2tsp/gal Epsom salt and tannins-either naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf (10-12 crushed/gallon) or Indian almond leaf or blackwater extract or decaf green tea-let this steep for an hour before use-the longer it steeps the more tannins are released the darker the water the more the Betta will like it...shake well before use...use this water for the 100% daily water changes for 10 days while in a small QT that can be floated in the heated tank....you also want to cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to maintain the the heat and humidity over the water for the labyrinth organ...hold food for for 3 days and then offer half feedings twice daily during treatment

Not sure if Epsom salt is safe to use with other medications, however, unless this medication you are using is an antibiotic I wouldn't use it anyway...if it is an antibiotic I would complete the treatment course so not to cause resistant issues.


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Thanks oldfishlady! I recently set him up in a breeder box back in his own tank so that it is easier to heat and filter. I figured since he's the only inhabitant, what can it hurt? The tablets I'm using are an antibiotic, the directions say not to do a water change until 5 days of treatment. I'm on day 2, should I wait to do a water change and epsom salt for 3 more days? or go ahead and add salt without the water change? Or maybe do a small change with salt but keep up with the antibiotic? I have been doing daily ammonia tests since the issue started and all readings have been 0.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Since I don't use antibiotic anymore (due to harshness to both the fish and environment)...I can't say much about their use, however, once you start them you need to complete the course so not to cause resistant issues

I would monitor the ammonia as you are doing and make water changes as needed based on the results and just use that medication as directed on the label and if it is ineffective once the course is completed then I would start the Epsom salt treatment at that point

Its always best to QT with any type of treatment you use especially in cycled tanks and with live plants as well as for observation purposes....antibiotics can't tell the difference between the good and bad pathogens and kills them all and some live plants can be sensitive to some medications and sodium chloride (aquarium salt)-low does of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) are usually tolerated/used as food by live plants but high doses needed for treatment can sometimes be harmful.


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Thanks again, I don't like antibiotics either but I had them on hand and I panicked  Could use emsom salt in a bath? and just let him soak for a bit at 2tsp/ gallon and then return him to his tank?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I am unsure of the interaction between the antibiotic and Epsom salt even with short term bath...so I can't personally recommend it....sorry.....


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

OK thank you anyway for all your help, I'll give it another 3 days, then start with the epsom salt if no improvement. Thanks again!!


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Ok I did some more research and now I feel really stupid, the active ingredient in lifeguard tablets is 1-chloro-2,2,5,5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone, which is NOT an antibiotic but is being described as a disinfectant. I couldn't find any where if its safe to use with epsom salts though. So I'm wondering now if I should just do a rather large water change and start the epsom salt dosage, or just finish the lifeguard treatment.


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Update: Kokomo still seems alert and hungry. I decided to finish the life guard treatment and then start adding Epsom salt with his water changes. He swims around the breeder box a lot, just has trouble getting off the ground. He is still not bloated at all but his fins are clamped. What is you opinion on using bettafix or melafix in conjunction with the Epsom salt? Thanks again everyone for the advice!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Personally I don't use any of those products-I have always had good results with just fresh, dechlorinated water from water changes.... along with either Epsom salt or aquarium salt and tannins as needed...depending on what is wrong with the Betta....creating the proper environment and meeting nutritional needs.....

I don't know how these products interact with each other-when in doubt...don't do it....with either of those product Bettafix and melafix it is important to allow good ventilation for the labyrinth organ...lots of folks use it with good results-I personally don't by choice...


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Ok just thought I'd check. All my tanks are filtered, heated and I test my water daily, so as far as maintaining a proper environment I don't know where I went wrong. Since I plan on leaving him in his 5 gallon, do you recommend doing daily water changes and adding Epsom salt and tannins with each water change? or treating the whole tank once and maintaining my normal water change schedule of once a week (or sooner if there are any issues with water quality)?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Treatments are best done in small QT containers that can be floated in the heated tank to maintain water temp...Qt makes observation, water changes and treatment easier...you have more control which is important with any treatment you use.

What are your water prams numbers by the way...for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH


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## bettababe321 (May 13, 2009)

Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all at 0, pH is about 7.2. I would like to move him to a QT tank, but I am a college student and am heading home to see my family this weekend. I'll be gone for 3 days and I don't trust my roommates to do the required daily water changes in a 1 gallon tank. So far even with the lifeguard treatment the 5 gallon has been pretty stable and even if it is "uncycled" due to the lifeguard the ammonia will be less in it than in a one gallon after 3 days. I also had trouble keeping the 1 gallon warm enough as it is too big to float in the 5 gallon hex tank. The breeder box allows for easy observation but I agree about treatment being easier to control in a smaller environment, I'm just not sure how to make it work. Again your suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you.


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