# Veiltails?



## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

I love veiltails, they have always been my favorites, I started out with a veiltail, and they will probably always be my favorites. That being said I was wondering if anyone on here works with veiltails breeding wise? And if anyone has heard anything about the IBC possibly starting up veiltail classes again. I've heard mixed rumors over the past couple years, about the possibility of veiltails being brought back into the shows, but nothing concrete. Does anyone know anything? 

I seriously want to start breeding veils, and I might anyway just to see what I can come up with. I have a wonderful local pet store that would gladly buy the bettas from me


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

As far as I know there is no talk about adding VT classes back. However I believe you can show VT in certain classes. Someone who is currently into showing could be able to tell you more.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Im an IBC member and on the better betta yahoo group a question was asked by another member about veiltails and shows, and one of the responses was this

"You could enter VTs in the ST NB class, but since they are poor examples of our ST(HM) standard, they would have a hard time placing. They should be entered in Variations class as Veiltails. But since their is no standard for variations, other than uniqueness, its completely subjective as far as judging goes. Personally if I am judging, I would love to see a exceptional veiltail with a good full flowing finnage and can handle it(not drag it on the bottom of a container). But they need to be a step above a typical pet store fish. Showing is about rewarding excellence after all. There has been talk of a few breeders working on them and showing them, but not much came of it. Again, it will come down to one or two breeders working on them and showing them. Until then there is no need for the IBC to develop a standard for them. Supply and demand as with all things." 

I think im going to take a crack at developing a show line of veiltails!


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## misamiania (Feb 11, 2011)

I hope you keep us posted! Because I honestly prefer VT over the other kinds.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

I really do to!! I have a couple males that Im going to start conditioning, including the new boy I bought today!! 

The same IBC member also said this

"You can always enter them in the new breeder class. The one with the best combo of color and symmetrical finnage will win the class. A fish does not have to be near perfect to show. In fact even BOS fish have flaws.

The Veiltail will never become a popular show betta till someone develops them into a real veiltail(like the veiltail goldfish) fish...

Pet store bettas really aren't "veiltails" for the most part. They are just mass produced fish. They were the starting point the was used to develop the modern show betta. But the genetic raw material is there to develop a Veiltail type fish, if someone wanted to. I would use the DT gene though for volume of fin rays and a thick peduncle to support it. A fish would have to be thick and strong to support the weight/length of finnage. Trust me, its a issue with Veiltail goldfish. The best ones are powerful and strong."

I think Im going to take that advice and cross them with a nice DT female or a HM female with a DT Geno. Im excited!!


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

By DT, do you mean double tail or delta tail?

I was considering starting a quality VT line when the day comes that I breed, too! (= A bunch of breeders need tp make a pact to work hard and create the quality VT, not one with deformities everywhere that come in few color combinations, but ones that are perfect and come in colors such as white, copper, gold, etc. (I know they already do, but it's really rare....)


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i decided that i'm going to include Veils into my Orange Dalmatian lines, when i'm ready to start them. the issue with that will be, finding a good female. so far, i've not seen any Orange Dalmatian Veiltail females. ever. so, i may have to branch off into cross-breding VTxHM.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

baylee767 said:


> By DT, do you mean double tail or delta tail?
> 
> I was considering starting a quality VT line when the day comes that I breed, too! (= A bunch of breeders need tp make a pact to work hard and create the quality VT, not one with deformities everywhere that come in few color combinations, but ones that are perfect and come in colors such as white, copper, gold, etc. (I know they already do, but it's really rare....)


Double Tail  I think that since Veiltail is a dominant trait, crossing a veiltails with a doubletail or super delta with help to create a veiltail tail with a wider span, but keep the distinct veiltail shape. I also want to create a veiltail that has strong fins, and a bit broader dorsal fin. 

I would love to have nice fancy marble veiltails, and dragon veiltails



Luimeril said:


> i decided that i'm going to include Veils into my Orange Dalmatian lines, when i'm ready to start them. the issue with that will be, finding a good female. so far, i've not seen any Orange Dalmatian Veiltail females. ever. so, i may have to branch off into cross-breding VTxHM.


I would love to see your dalmations when you breed them!


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i have a pretty cool veiltail that I want to breed but not any other betta, of any tail type looks like him. a pic of him is in my album.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

and it is sad that aquabid doesnt have one single veiltail betta ever.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

there's SOMETIMES veils on AB, but it's rare.

and, of course i'll show off my babies when i start breeding.  i was thinking about offering a few for sale on here, since everyone seems to love the idea already, and i'm not even done with it yet. x3c


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

mernincrazy8525 said:


> and it is sad that aquabid doesnt have one single veiltail betta ever.


I know that makes me sad too 

I know a breeder whose on a few forums that Im on (I dont know if hes on here) His name is Chard he's also a seller on AB. He has some NICE veiltails that he sells to local pet shops (I believe) He doesn't sell them on AB cause there's no demand. But if you want a nice VT find him and ask him!


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

I would definitly buy one!!!


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

> I know a breeder whose on a few forums that Im on (I dont know if hes on here) His name is Chard he's also a seller on AB. He has some NICE veiltails that he sells to local pet shops (I believe) He doesn't sell them on AB cause there's no demand. But if you want a nice VT find him and ask him!


I know him. I actually just bought three crowntail black orchids from him and he is on this forum. He is one of my friends but I have never seen his veiltails.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Here's a standard for bettas created in the Netherlands and used in their shows

http://superbbettas.com/Bettas4AllShowStandard/Chapter3DVeiltail.html


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

not a perfect pic, but here's my ideal coloration of my veils:
http://bettafishpictures.com/images/8.jpg

of course, they'll probably look alot better than that poor guy(looks like his top fin's messed up. D.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Beautiful! Gorgeous coloration! Do you have any goals as far as finnage goes?


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Here are some pictures of really nice veiltails I found!! The last two were bred by chard


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

ii don't think that last on is a veiltail. If it is it has a wide tip.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

some cool veiltails
this is a plakat veiltail








fancy doubletail veitail


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

I just noticed that the last one is a 4 ray, but his caudal has the shape of a veiltail, very interesting. Check out that lavendary dragon dalmation


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Love that doubletail!


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

I have never actually seen a double tail veiltail until him.


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## FlareThis (Jan 24, 2011)

Of course here is my beautiful boy who I will be spawning soon!


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## misamiania (Feb 11, 2011)

wow he is pretty. I'm uploading a picture right now of my boy. I had never thought about breeding until I got him and my newest unnamed Betta. If and when I do breed it won't be for a few years which... sadly obviously means I can't use them. Since I guess breeding prime is deffinitly over by one year... or in most cases anyways.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

FlareThis:

That is a beautiful fish! 

With the exception of one CT, all my female bettas are VT.

Without exception, I keep bettas for their 'personality' rather than a specific color or finnage. 

If the betta is healthy enough to engage in her surroundings and shows interest in me and/or the fish surrounding her, I'll give her chance.

~~~~~~~

My first betta, Baby Blue, is a VT. She's over a year old and despite one injury which deformed her top line (terra cotta pot drainage hole) and an illness (popeye) that has left her blind in one eye, she has grown into a well colored and well-finned beauty. If she was in her original state (flawless), she'd be lovely to show.

Her ultra-aggressive tendencies would make me think twice about breeding her.

Here's some questions that only a breeder can answer: When you think about breeding a pair, are you only considering physical characteristics, or does a betta's 'demeanor' get considered as well? Does a healthy betta worthy of breeding need to be somewhat aggressive, in order to be interested in breeding? Is aggression linked to their intellegence as well? (more aggressive, curious bettas survive than 'nice' bettas? Are any behavioral traits linked to any other quality you'd breed for?


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## misamiania (Feb 11, 2011)

Hehe I've been researching so I'll give the question's a shot! I know I have tons more searching to do but what the heck why not ^^ highlight for my answers~ hehe 



> *When you think about breeding a pair, are you only considering physical characteristics, or does a betta's 'demeanor' get considered as well? *You want to look alot at physical characteristics and see if the pair are compatible. However you also want to consider their demeanor as well. Because if the female is too aggressive it might not turn out well. Same with the male.
> *
> Does a healthy betta worthy of breeding need to be somewhat aggressive, in order to be interested in breeding? * No*
> 
> ...


An!~ This is my boy that can't get any good pictures so just recorded. Sorry about the sound the filter isn't very quiet in the water. 

http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x426/Cheniaya/Fish/?action=view&current=CIMG0422.mp4


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I love DTVT. their fins can really grow! (sorry about the bad pictures)














IMO both form and character are often passed on to offspring. If parents are egg eaters, there's a big chance you will produce more egg eaters. But I don't consider character when breeding.

Betta do not need to be aggressive to breed. But they must be active. A male that mostly keeps still often wont take care of egg/fry.

Aggression = survival. But this isn't so in solitary tanks. Never the less, an aggressive betta is more interesting to see (max spread of fins and more vibrant colors). In my area, non aggressive bettas will most likely be culled because they won't sell.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

if i could get Cup to flare and not wiggle all over the place when i'm trying to get photos, i'd show him off. i THINK i have one pic of him on my FB..... 

aahh, here we go.
Cup, still in his one gallon:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1498801556519&set=a.1498800956504.2065711.1428554713

Cup, in his two gallon. look at those ventrils! :O i wish he wasn't behind his plant, though:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1498802076532&set=a.1498800956504.2065711.1428554713

Cup, in a .5 KK. you can see how long his fins are. <3 i want my Dals to have fins like his!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1524390716232&set=a.1498800956504.2065711.1428554713

i guess, if i knew more about "proper" VT fins, i'd say yeah, i have goals for fins. but, you'd have to go through my FB album there and tell me, if the Veils i got from Pet Lover's are good in finnage, or not. x3c i think they're perfect, but then again, those were my babes(RIP, Gackt and Hyde. </3), and Cup is just perfect(once his fins grow back. accident with a plant. D.


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