# Critique please



## saeed144 (Jul 26, 2014)

I would appreciate some critique on this. 

Thanks


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## eli82 (Nov 10, 2013)

Did you breed that?


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## saeed144 (Jul 26, 2014)

I am new in betta world and planning to breed this. Been reading through other threads, and thought this one is good to start with to get some good fry.


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

Decent fin and balance to work with. Body is a bit long though, a slight spoon head.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Nice fish to start breeding.

You want to fix:
Body too long. 
Top and bottom line of body should be fairly symmetrical.
Dorsal could be a bit better.
Caudal is a bit slanted - you want it straight (+/- 90* to the center body line)
Ventrals are pretty good - wide. But you want to get rid of the protruding ray

Good luck.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Could be start of show type, don't like the OHM as is tends to have shorter outside rays. I'd select for a nice "D" shape in any offspringg. Would like to see a longer and slimmer ventral and more of a point on the anal. Has good body length and dorsal nice. Color has too much irid and seems cambodian based. Could be good breeding stock with right female and a few generations of hard selection for desired traits.


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## budgie guy (Aug 6, 2014)

hmm when planning to breed a pair of fish, u need to know what ur aim is. if u want experience this guy should be able to produce offspring with decent finage, but if u want to breed a fish for show, this guy wouldnt do. First of all this is a super red, and having so much irids would be considered a major fault in an ibc comp, u would not want to pass on this trait to a next generation, plus his finage is abit heavy, thus ur female would need to have fewer branching rays


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

He is Cambodian red. Not the true old red with a dark black layer. You get more of this type of red that can be difficult to show than the desired dark ones.


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## budgie guy (Aug 6, 2014)

I suppose u mean it is a super red with a cambo base. Technically this type of reds are the best for show as they would poses less blackscales compared to an extended red(red with a dark black layer) . A good super red would hv a body free of irids.


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## eli82 (Nov 10, 2013)

Are irrids these little blue dots that appear on the body?


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## budgie guy (Aug 6, 2014)

Yes those are irids


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## eli82 (Nov 10, 2013)

budgie guy said:


> Yes those are irids



well maybe IBC doesn't like irrids, but I think irrids are nice


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## budgie guy (Aug 6, 2014)

Red fish usually is split into two groups, light base and dark base.
The so called light base is called cambo. The undesired trait was that they had a reddish white body and has irids. The advantage was that they had no black scales.
The dark base is called extended red. This type of fish had a darker red throughout the whole fish. The only flaw in that trait was that they had lots of blackscales.

Thus breeders crossed this two breeds together to form the super red, which is the most common red u see in the market now. Super red have the best of both worlds. The cambo red reduced the black scales and the extended red gave the intense red. So thus the super red has a strong red throughout the whole body. The fish above seems to be a super red, which has irids that cannot seem to fade. This could be due to a stronger cambo gene is this fish. Therefore , in order to create better offspring, u would need to cross it to a good extended red female to balance the colours and irids. But I would advise u to get a new breeder, it would save u lots of time,patience and money


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Technically .. no they are not. They may not have the black edging but they have lighter heads and undersides.. serious faults. They also carry a lot more irid. And since technically a red is a dark bodied fish and dark fish have a black layer.. they are not really a red. When a true red shows up at competition they always tend to place above any cambo based red. My reds are the true old type and with careful breeding you remove the black and still keep the richness of color a red should have with the black layer.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

eli82 said:


> well maybe IBC doesn't like irrids, but I think irrids are nice


a red fish should be red. period. Blue speckles are a serious fault. White or black also a fault. A solid should be a pure solid color.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Cambo based reds produce a lot of fish worthless to a show breeder. Crappy color in most of them. Even breeding the darks I get a lot of the cambo dumping. Hope in a few generations to get that crap out of my line. There is no super anything. Either dark or cambo based reds. If you want competitive reds you really have to work the darks. Or you will get beat by them in competition. Most judges prefer the old type and the cambo red is never any where near a dark in quality of color.


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## eli82 (Nov 10, 2013)

Basement Bettas said:


> a red fish should be red. period. Blue speckles are a serious fault. White or black also a fault. A solid should be a pure solid color.


Got it basement bettas that's awesome to know.!! 
Is copper considered an irrid? Can you show pictures of a nice copper show quality male?


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## budgie guy (Aug 6, 2014)

Not true, blacksacales in a dark red is also a serious fault. But by crossing it to a cambo, u can clean up the blackscales. The irids in a super red usually clear up after 3 months so that's why they have an advantage in competitions. I'm not sure about the United States but in Malaysia, our red class usually has about 30-60 fish, in those comps, the dark base n cambo base are the ones that r eliminated first. What u want in a red fish is the balance between the extended red n the cambo red. That is what IBC looks for


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