# Red Cherry Shrimp.



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I have a 3 gallon unfiltered and unheated but planted tank which is currently empty. There's a variety of plants, varying from tiny babies to long plants that reach the surface, as well as floating plants. I add cuttings from my 5 gallon whenever I need to to the smaller tank. 

I'd like to add something to the 3 gallon. I was thinking about Red Cherry Shrimp. How many could I put in that tank and is there anything important I should know before getting them? i know they eat algae so I would have to grow some before buying. Is it possible to grow algae with very limite sunlight? I live in the UK so it's usually cloudy and aining here. If my local pet store doesn't stock them, would it be safe to buy online? 

I don't really want to put anything in the 5 gallon with my betta because he's _very_ agressive and territorial, so the poor shrimp would most likely get stressed out and eaten. I could maybe take the risk with one shrimp and see how he reacts but I think I'd much raher keep them seperate.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You could try Red Cherry Shrimp. You wouldn't have to grow algae for them as they graze on the biofilm growing on your plants. They prefer cooler temperatures than Tropical fish so unless it gets below 70 they should be okay. If the RCS work you could look into getting three Dwarf Crayfish.

A planted invert tank is fun but you do need lid as they can climb.

You could put 30 dwarf shrimp in a three gallon. Do get a TDS meter. If TDS is too high inverts can't molt and die. A range of 200-300 is good.

Oh, and I get all my fish online as I don't trust my local PetSmart to have healthy stock.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I'd get a small heater in that case, the temperature in that tank is about 60 degrees I'm guessing. Will they be okay without a filter? There's not much space for equipmet with all these plants haha. I do have a lid for that tank, I just don't use it because there's only plants in there. But I can put it on and cover the openings with mesh like I do in the 5 gallon so that's not a problem. I would be worried that they don't get enough food though! If they don't need algae can I supplement their died with fish pellets and frozen foods? 

I don't think I want that many haha. I'll start off with just a few and if they don't die I'll look into getting more. If the readings are outwith the range you recommended, what should I do to correct it?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can feed shrimp algae wafers and they make food specifically for inverts. I use BorneoWild. But, truly, I think in a heavily planted tank you really don't have a lot of worry. A fish pellet once a week would work, too.

Because they have such a small bioload you could probably do without a filter; the smallest sponge filter you can find will work if you decide on a filter because they do like water movement. The smaller the water change the better as they are pretty sensitive to sudden parameter changes.

You can keep TDS down by not using hot water when doing water changes. Put the jug of cold water in a sink of ot water to even out temperatures.

A shrimp-only tank is so much more interesting that one with a Betta. They will be out swimming all of the time instead of hiding. You'll enjoy them, I think.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

You don't need a filter but you do need to keep ammonia and nitrites at 0. Should be easy with shrimp as long as you don't overfeed. You can feed them regular fish food but an invert food is useful for making sure they get enough calcium. I use Hikari Crab Cuisine. You can also feed them blanched vegetables like zucchini and spinach. Be careful to avoid foods or medications with copper. I don't have a lid on my shrimp tank and they have not jumped.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Mine didn't jump .... they climbed! Really creepy seeing an Amano going across the floor. Luckily I saw him before Russell did.  Ditto on Hikari Crab Cuisine.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

For calcium can I stick a small piece of cuttlebone in the tank? 

The tank isn't a total jungle yet, but as I said I regularly add in plants so it's getting filled up as time goes on. The tank is filled all the way up to the top with conditioned water (thanks to plants that despite this are still too tall which drives me nuts) which would probably give the shrimp easy opportunities to escape! I doubt I would even see them on my red carpet! It would be a shame if the dog got them, it's bad enough that she hunts spiders and moths and and mosquitoes and mice, and only the mice are lucky enough to die a quick death: everything else she plays with before it's killed :/ 

So small water changes with cold water? Could I just float the jug in the tank instead so the temperature doesn't get too high? And is this really all that has to be done to keep TDS down? What if they're too low? 

I'm going to the cinema with the boyfriend tomorrow so I'll convince him to have a look in the pet store before we go as it's only a ten minute walk.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

High TDS is more harmful than low. Unless your tapwater is sky-high (like over 300), you should be okay.


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Personally I really don't recommend 30 cherry shrimp in a 3 gallon without a filter, in my opinion it's just asking for trouble and will not end well at all. Shrimp in general are really intolerant to ammonia or nitrites, all you need is for one shrimp to pop it's clogs and you've got an ammonia spike that starts killing off the rest. In addition to this, you need to be feeding the shrimp something, as they can't just live off what's in the tank. Anything they feed on comes out the other end, and that will produce ammonia x 30 (or however many shrimp you decide to go with). Ammonia WILL be produced regardless of small bioload or not, and while plants can handle some of the ammonia for you, you need plants that are settled and doing well for that to work, especially in such a heavily stocked, small tank where parameters are harder to control. 

As another member from the UK, you def need a heater. Amano shrimp seem to survive OK without heating in our climate, but it really is just that - surviving.

For your best chances of success, I really strongly recommend getting a filter hun (and cycling it without any shrimp in there, they are unlikely to survive the cycle) - with limited space something like this is good:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/1714...3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

- you just connect it to an air pump and bobs your uncle. It also makes less work for you. Best of luck :grin:​


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

While I've successfully bred dwarf shrimp in non-filtered aquariums I do think it's better if they have a filter. If you're not in a hurry you can avoid "cycling." Assuming the five gallon is cycled just run the sponge filter along side the established filter.

After three to six weeks move the sponge filter into the smaller tank and you have an instantly-cycled aquarium.

While the rule of thumb is 10+ dwarf shrimp per gallon I'd start out with 10 total. Besides, if conditions are right you'll have enough to sell in no time. ;-)


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Oh it can be done of course, and there will always be people to say they have done something not generally recommended as a successful method. I don't know the OP's aquatic experience, but imo more difficult methods with delicate species (in small aquaria where parameters can get out of whack very quickly) should only really be attempted by people who are very competent, and have the ability to pick up the signs of things going wrong, are consistent with maintenance and have the knowledge to alter that maintenance to suit their particular aquarium *no two aquariums are ever the same :grin:* - otherwise they're likely to encounter issues and get disheartened :-(

Out of interest, what dwarf shrimp did you breed? I just concentrate on crystal reds at the moment - easy peasy. ​



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> While I've successfully bred dwarf shrimp in non-filtered aquariums I do think it's better if they have a filter.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Bessie said:


> Oh it can be done of course, and there will always be people to say they have done something not generally recommended as a successful method. I don't know the OP's aquatic experience, but imo more difficult methods with delicate species (in small aquaria where parameters can get out of whack very quickly) should only really be attempted by people who are very competent, and have the ability to pick up the signs of things going wrong, are consistent with maintenance and have the knowledge to alter that maintenance to suit their particular aquarium *no two aquariums are ever the same :grin:* - otherwise they're likely to encounter issues and get disheartened :-(​
> 
> 
> Out of interest, what dwarf shrimp did you breed? I just concentrate on crystal reds at the moment - easy peasy. ​


Even though I have successful bred shrimp in unfiltered tanks I did not advocate it for others as evidenced by the quote from my earlier post.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Bessie, as I stated I'm my other post there's no way I'm getting 30 shrimp for that tank. I'm inexperienced and this certainly isn't a thing I should do. I'll get a few to start with and if everything goes well I'll consider slightly increasing the numbers. Would you say they would be okay without a heater for a couple of days? I've ordered another 50W which I'm expecting to arrive at some point next week, but since I'll be at the pet store tomorrow I could perhaps get the shrimp then. I don't get a chance to visit the pet store that often now that I get to college later and don't have enough time to go before it starts  doing small daily WC won't be an issue so maybe a filter won't be necessary. 

Russell, I'm not really interested in breeding. If it happens, that's fine but I only really want shrimp to have something moving in that tank. It's so boring with just plants!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Kisiel said:


> Russell, I'm not really interested in breeding. If it happens, that's fine but I only really want shrimp to have something moving in that tank. It's so boring with just plants!


With 5-10 the bioload would be so miniscule in a planted three-gallon that 10% water changes once a week will be more than adequate. In the meantime, if you eventually decide to get a filter you have the option of doing as I suggested. 

My mention of breeding was tongue-in-cheek. However, often an LFS will buy the babies which helps fund more plants. ;-)


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

So my boyfriend didn't let me get the shrimp today  Aww well. I guess I'll just have to wait until another chance to pop to the pet store comes up - I'll need to get bird food soon so maybe I'll have a look at the shrimp then. 

Yesterday I tested the water in the 3 gallon and I was surprised to find that ammonia was present. How is this possible when there are no fish in there?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Dead and dying/rotting plants can cause Ammonia to be present.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I blame the water lettuce then... I have no idea what's happened to it, I think I might just throw it out because it's all turning yellow. Eh :/ 

Would this filter be okay for a 3 gallon? 
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/11144162049...us=Model:AP-300L (200 LPH)&varId=410429231423
I was thinking of getting the weakest one, I think that's the 200lph? I'm considering bucket-cycling it before putting anything in the tank now... Never doing a fish-in cycle again, it's too stressful. Poor Lucifer is still in an uncycled tank after so long. Not even a sign of nitrates or nitrites.

EDIT; or this filter? http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/331258839981?cmd=VIDESC&varId=540441552426


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I use internal filtrs and really like them. I turn the spray bar to the tank wall to baffle it. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

How are you trying to cycle Lucifer's aquarium?

I test every day when I'm cycling a tank because I have seen Nitrites not register one day, register and then not. This is what I do:

Test each day
When Ammonia or Nitrites approach .25 ppm I do a 25% water change
Between changes I add 1-2 drops of conditioner
When Ammonia and Nitrites are 0 and I see Nitrates I know the tank is cycled.

I think it's very important to test every day.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

That's a great idea with the spray bar! If the current is still too strong I can always put filter sponge over the intake like I've done with the current filter which is very similar, only it doesn't have a spray bar. I'll go order one of these right now. 

Lucifer is in a planted 5 gallon which I've had for about six weeks now. He was in the 3 gallon before that. I'm cycling it with Lucifer in the tank and testing the water approximately every two days and after every water change to make sure ammonia is at 0. When the water needs changed I do at least 50% depending on how high ammonia is. There are days when I'm carrying so much water up and down the stairs that my back really hurts the day after :/ I start to feel bad when I need to ask my boyfriend to do it for me because I do it so often.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I think the water movement is good for the plants and for Betta. One of mine even "plays" in the spray bar and the bubble wand in the 20 gallon. I think some current gives them exercise and entertainment.

I know there's a more scientific explanation but to simplify:
You have to have Ammonia to feed the Nitrites and Nitrites to feed the Nitrates. So you need to allow for some Ammonia and not keep it at 0. Some recommend a water change at .5 but I don't like mine to reach that high so that's why I do 25% at .25.

Hope that makes sense ... and helps.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Yeah, I've noticed that my fish swims right up to the bubbles over and over again haha. He didn't like it when the current was too strong though, poor boy struggled to get to the side opposite the filter because the intake pulled him back  exercise is good, mirrors are one thing but a constant current lets them build up strength. 

So yours saying I shouldn't have ammonia at 0? It's at .25 at the moment, should I just leave it and do a smaller water change when it gets to .5?


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I have just tested for nitrites in the 5 gallon aaaanddd...
THEY'RE AT 1ppm! _Finally!_

Do I just do water changes as normal now and wait until nitrates show up? I'm so excited haha.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Congratulations!

If Nitrites are at 1.0 I would do at least a 50% water change and retest a couple of hours later. If they're at .25 or above I would do another 25%.

I misunderstood about the Ammonia. I thought you were doing changes to keep it at 0 and not allowing it to reach .25. I do a water change when either Ammonia or Nitrite reach .25. That is why I test every day instead of every two or three days.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I can't do a water change until I get back home, it'll have to wait another five hours or so. I hope everything will be okay until then! It's gonna be such a busy day today, I have to do a big water change in both tanks and then get ready for celebrating boyfriend's and mine anniversary. We're gonna bake cookies! Haha. 

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I've had a few ammonia spikes when it got to 2.0 in just a couple of days, it's difficult to keep it down but I'm managing. I think your advice is really good, I'll start testing the water daily


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