# spine bent and discoloration



## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

hi, i am new on this forum and i need some help on my female and male betta. my female betta has a bent spine and when she swims she continues to have the bent spine. what does this mean? Also, my male betta is swimming okay, however, his tail is not full like it should be and when he swims it just stays together as if its stuck together. and the coloration on the male is changing/fading towards his head and upper fin area, almost like its in patches. can someone please help me out?


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## peachesxo (Jan 20, 2011)

studmuffin said:


> hi, i am new on this forum and i need some help on my female and male betta. my female betta has a bent spine and when she swims she continues to have the bent spine. what does this mean? Also, my male betta is swimming okay, however, his tail is not full like it should be and when he swims it just stays together as if its stuck together. and the coloration on the male is changing/fading towards his head and upper fin area, almost like its in patches. can someone please help me out?


please answer the following questions for both of your bettas so we can get a better idea of what is wrong//how to fix it

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5g
What temperature is your tank? mid 70s
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? dont think so
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none. 

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? flakes
How often do you feed your betta fish? every other day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? every 2-3 weeks
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? all
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? conditioner for the water

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? never had it tested

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? the colors stayed the same but i noticed some very light patches on his body
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? tail isnt full and was not going after the female, however the female was sick and died last night 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? when i came back from vacation
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? not yet.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no.
How old is your fish (approximately)? since summer so probably 9-10 months ive had him. cant tell you age.


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

First of all: In the future NEVER keep 2 bettas in the same tank without a divider! Even if you have a divider keeping a male on one side and a female on the other is still dangerous as the females are much better jumpers than the males and they can jump the divider and kill your male.

Second of all: 
The male is most likely dying due to poor water quality and being cold.

The general freshwater rule of thumb is 1 gallon per inch of fish per fish.
Betta fish are 2.5 inches typically. You had two fish. (2.5+2.5=5 gallons needed) So you should have had at least a 5 gallon to keep both in the same tank.

Betta fish are tropical fish and require a heated environment inside of the tank. They need a heater unless the ambient room temperature is in the mid 80's. The reason for this is because water is typically 4-6 degrees lower than the air temperature of the room the tank is in.

For an unfiltered 2.5 gallon with one betta in it you need to change the water 50% every other day with a 100% change at least once a week if not twice.

They males fins are clamped.

Are the light patches white and fuzzy?

I also advise buying a pellet food with a high protein content or some frozen blood worms. Flakes are alright but they shouldn't be his constant diet as they can get a lot of air in their systems that way and get Swim Bladder Disorder. 
When you get pellets feed the beta 2 pellets twice a day after soaking the two pellets in a little bit of their tank water for about 5 minutes, this way you'll ensure that there isn't a lot of air in the pellets and you boy won't get swim bladder disorder.

Also regardless of what kind of aliment he has you'll awnt to start doing daily 100% water changes. 

When you do the 100% water changes you'll want to catch him in the cup he came in and empty half of the water out of the cup. This way he has enough room to swim comfortably.

Then you should completely empty your tank. Then you'll want to fill the tank with hot water then dump it out. Then fill it with water hot as you can stand and then let that sit for a minute. Then put your hand in there and scrubb the sides and bottom of the tank until you feel it's clean.

Don't use any soaps or sponges to do this and make sure you haven't used any products or been in contact with any soaps for at least 15 minutes beforehand. (keep this in mind before you start your water change)

Then fill it back up with cool water or take it back to where yuo want it after drying it off then fill it with water using a gallon water jug full of tap water.

Then you put in the appropriate amount of water conditioner in and plug in your heater and make sure it's set somewhere between 76 and 82 degrees F (you really need to buy a heater btw I can recommend some).

Then float your boys cup in his tank while it heats and dechlorinates.

Bubbles will gather on surfaces like the heater and any plastic or silk plants you have in there (I highly suggest you ditch gravel or sand until his quarantine and treatment is over with) that's the chlorine gas. wipe your heater underwater a few times (DON'T LIFT IT OUT OF THE WATER it might break the heater and it might get really hot and hurt you or your betta) and shake the plants to let the chlorine float to the surface and diffuse into the air.

After that you should be good to take your boys cup out of the water and to a bowl, sink(I don't advise the sink though), or bucket (my preference) and pour some more of his cup water out untill there's just enough room for him to swim in place.

Then you take his cup back to his tank and fill it a little bit with his new water. do this every 3 minutes until the cup is either full or half full.

He should be acclimated and ready to go back in his tank at this point.

If you can give us a more clear description of his symptoms we could probably suggest medicines to add to his daily waer chang routine. =]

Good luck with your boy! =]


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## denaliwind (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey, sorry your little guy isn't doing too well. 
A good place to start would be to get a heater, get the water to about 78 degrees, and start doing water changes more regularly. Every 2-3 weeks for that size tank is way too little, at the very least I'd recommend doing a full water change at least every 5 days and a 50% change somewhere in between. Someone else will probably recommend even more frequent water changes, especially since you're feeding flake food which can really pollute the water. Second of all, I understand your female died and I'm sorry about that, but for future reference it's not good to keep a male and a female together. His inactivity and color change may simply be solved by a heater and more frequent water changes and I think it would be a good place to start.


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## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

thank you for both of your replies. it is really helping me. i put them in one tank with a divider because i actaully wanted to mate them. so how do i mate them without putting them in one tank with a divider. the guy at the pet store that i got my other fish told me he needs to see her everyday for them to mate.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Breeding is best left to experienced people, rather than betta newbies like yourself. Wait about a year, learn more about bettas and how to take proper care of them, then research breeding  It's alot of work and alot of money.


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## denaliwind (Feb 27, 2011)

studmuffin said:


> thank you for both of your replies. it is really helping me. i put them in one tank with a divider because i actaully wanted to mate them. so how do i mate them without putting them in one tank with a divider. the guy at the pet store that i got my other fish told me he needs to see her everyday for them to mate.


It's a much, much more complicated process then that and requires a lot of experience, money, time, patience, space and healthy bettas.


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## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

ill wait then. but can you tell me why it is a lot of money and a difficult process to mate bettas?


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## Malvolti (Nov 15, 2010)

There is a forum here specifically for breeding, asking there can give you more detailed answers. 

Very basically to mate bettas you need a breeding tank seperate from where you house your Bettas, I believe the minimum recommended is 10 gallons, this usually needs special care such as a special filter (if any), Tannins etc. You need a variety of special foods to feed the newly hatched babies. You then need tanks to house each baby when they are old enough, Bettas can have up to 200 babies in one spawning I believe. Then you have to go through cullings (killing off babies that show bad genetics, are sick or deformed).

Then there is also the conditioning of the parents which can take weeks to months of high quality foods, making sure they are in peak possible health just so they can survive the process. If not conditioned properly they will most likely try to kill each other instead.

After all that there is no way to regain any money you spent, chances are you have pet store bettas which are considered to have very poor genetics and nobody will want to buy them. Most pet stores already have a trusted supplier and are unlikely to take what you have, if they do it will only be for a small amount of store credit. 

If you happen to have quality breeders (That you bought from another breeder) then you MIGHT be able to sell them to others for slightly more than you see in a pet store, still not enough to cover your expenses.

EDIT: Here's a link to a good post by dramaqueen.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30005


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

*It is expensive because you need to buy them live food and also you need to buy like 100 containers for the little betta fry when they get a little older because they need to be seperated. Also before breeding the Betta's you need to be feeding them high protien live foods and what not. Plus you need a 5-10 gallon tank aswell. There is a lot that I am missing aswell I am sure. *


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## Thunderloon (Feb 6, 2011)

studmuffin said:


> hi, i am new on this forum and i need some help on my female and male betta. my female betta has a bent spine and when she swims she continues to have the bent spine. what does this mean? Also, my male betta is swimming okay, however, his tail is not full like it should be and when he swims it just stays together as if its stuck together. and the coloration on the male is changing/fading towards his head and upper fin area, almost like its in patches. can someone please help me out?



If the female cannot unbend her back, she is likely permanently injured from an infection. The same infection could be affecting the male.


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## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

wow this is way more than complicated than i thought. the guy at the pet store made it sound like its a easy process. i never expected to buy 100 tanks for them. i know i am going off topic but do you have any advice on my male betta? read the top threads to understand what i am talking about.


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## denaliwind (Feb 27, 2011)

studmuffin said:


> wow this is way more than complicated than i thought. the guy at the pet store made it sound like its a easy process. i never expected to buy 100 tanks for them. i know i am going off topic but do you have any advice on my male betta? read the top threads to understand what i am talking about.


I get the feeling that most pet store employees just say things to make a sell and know nothing of the actual care and upkeep of the animals they sell. 

Getting a heater and doing at the very least 100% water changes every 5 days with a 50% change in between might be a good place to start (others will probably suggest more). 2-3 weeks in between water changes is way too long for a tank that size and water conditions are a huge factor in the well being of any fish. 

Good luck!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Clamped fins is what it sounds like for the male.
Do a water change, and do it right now.
Do one every day, 100% changes, until you get a new tank.
*You need another tank*. Like, now. With a heater, a heater for both.
With the regular changes, maybe things will get better, I cant really say. Maybe another member with experience with that will come along.

But you *HAVE TO DO THOSE CHANGES, AND DO THEM EVERY DAY*.
With water conditioner, the works.

Edit: Denali, The tank, with those changes, with only one fish, is bordering on too little. Even worse for two fish.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

PewPewPew said:


> Clamped fins is what it sounds like for the male.
> Do a water change, and do it right now.
> Do one every day, 100% changes, until you get a new tank.
> *You need another tank*. Like, now. With a heater, a heater for both.
> ...


+1.


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## studmuffin (Mar 7, 2011)

My male betta still have i guess clamped fins. What is that from? However, he is swimming okay and is more active. But his fins have not been full like they used to be. I was wondering if it was because he was trying to "show off'" to the female.


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