# New to fish... Kind of worried.



## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so I made sure to read the forums a ton before doing anything. I got a new Betta fish today, a beautiful dark blue crown tail with two little red fins coming off his sides and silvery accents to him. I did the whole letting the water they kept him in in the container they had him in adjust to the temp of the new fishtank(terribly small, but I'll buy a larger one later) before setting him free into his new home. I made sure the water was warm. At first, he was super spazzy, exploring and poking at the new things and such. His color had paled a bit by the time I got him into the new tank... I'm worried about that. He's been in it for about 30 minutes now and about 10 minutes after I put him in, he's been incredibly lethargic. Sitting at the top of the tank blowing the random bubble and sometimes idling to a new spot to just sit. His fins are drooping and his color's faded a lot... I'm worried about him. Is this a sign of death? Can I fix it? Is it because he's suddenly in -much- cleaner water than he was?(you would not believe how disgusting the water was in that little tupperware they had him in >.<) Is this a normal reaction and part of acclimatizing to new surroundings? I couldn't find anything covering this kind of activity, so I figured I should as. Thank you!


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

Slipstitch said:


> Okay, so I made sure to read the forums a ton before doing anything. I got a new Betta fish today, a beautiful dark blue crown tail with two little red fins coming off his sides and silvery accents to him. I did the whole letting the water they kept him in in the container they had him in adjust to the temp of the new fishtank(terribly small, but I'll buy a larger one later) before setting him free into his new home. I made sure the water was warm. At first, he was super spazzy, exploring and poking at the new things and such. His color had paled a bit by the time I got him into the new tank... I'm worried about that. He's been in it for about 30 minutes now and about 10 minutes after I put him in, he's been incredibly lethargic. Sitting at the top of the tank blowing the random bubble and sometimes idling to a new spot to just sit. His fins are drooping and his color's faded a lot... I'm worried about him. Is this a sign of death? Can I fix it? Is it because he's suddenly in -much- cleaner water than he was?(you would not believe how disgusting the water was in that little tupperware they had him in >.<) Is this a normal reaction and part of acclimatizing to new surroundings? I couldn't find anything covering this kind of activity, so I figured I should as. Thank you!



Hey and welcome. your little betta sounds like he was checking it out and is settling in, the temp should be 76 -86 i think

his colour fading out is stress he will colour back up when he settles


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you, I'm kind of stressing myself, lol. Keep looking to see if he's moved(he has!) Do you know when I should try feeding him?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

i leave my fish till the next day before i offer food, if i put them in in the afternoon i wont offer food till bout lunch time the next day unless they are really active and giving me the "COME ONNNNN you know you wanna feed me" look


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

^_^ Thank you!


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

you think your paranoid now, i have gone from one betta to 15 in a month


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

WOW. Btw... Is it a good or bad sign if they try to jump out of the water? He kinda made a dive for the great fishy beyond when I wasn't looking(was doing something and hadn't put the lid on yet, heard the plop and yeah...) and I'm hoping that's a sign of him feeling better. He's tried a couple more times, but I have his lid on now.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Does he have a heater?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Not yet... I'm having to make do with him being near the vent and having a decent lightbulb that provides warmth. I have to get the heater tomorrow(It was the only thing on the list I forgot to grab... Was kind of rushed.)


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes, a heater for sure is a must; he may be jumping because he it too cold and a heater will pick up his activity quite a bit. It also takes a couple days for them to get used to their surroundings.

My second and third Betta were both extremely inactive when I first got them. It just takes time. Start feeding him small amounts tomorrow. It took all of mine almost a week to learn that when i show up, it means food. Just be cautious with your jumper. I don't know if he is jumping because he is too cold, or because that is in his nature. One of mine jumps all the time, so I have to be really careful.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The main reason I got him was because he was the most active of the six they had. He's kind of a wal-mart rescue. Poor little guy... He was in about 2 inches deep filthy water with pieces of his fins on the ground... I'll post pics of him once he perks up though. He really is beautiful. Are the flakes with the freeze dried shrimpy bits okay or do I need to mix it up a bit? And thank you for your patience with me.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

hmmm I don't feed mine flakes, I use pellets and they love them. What you're feeding him sounds good though, because they need both meat and plants in their diet. Keep a good balance and he should remain healthy.

also, a little question for you... there were pieces of his fin in the bottom of his cup? Could you have a look at his fins and tail, are they brown and jagged at the ends?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope, they're a pale blue(his color's faded a lot) I assume the bits were pieces of his fins, they were the same color as him. But his fins are a solid blue, no discoloration. He has silver near his mouth, but that was on him when I bought him and hasn't changed. He also has two... Mini fins? They don't seem to be an active thing except for when he flares up and are a bright red. I made sure to check for anything that didn't look right and such. The ends of his fins are actually in pretty awesome condition... I'm certain they'll be much better with real care though.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

That's really lucky, most pet store Betta are known for having fin rot, that is why I asked. It sounds to me like you are doing a good job. Only one of my Betta was really active when I first brought him home, the other two were pretty lethargic. I'd say it is nothing to be concerned about, and seems pretty common. Just keep up on water changes, and keep us posted on how he is adjusting! We're all pretty Betta crazy here ( actually, my Betta were used to diagnose a mental condition oddly enough), so you should get some good advice.

Just a warning though, after you've got you tank set up and perfect, you're going to realize that it is impossible to have just one Betta...lol!

And just an observation: you're doing pretty good for a new Betta owner. Not everyone is open to the proper ways of caring for them. My older brother is positive it is okay to keep goldfish in the tank with a Betta (and to be fair, he did keep a goldfish and Betta together with neons for quite awhile... until the goldfish got hungry) and I was talking about my fish to my family when my step dad insisted I was killing my Betta by doing weekly water changes. He believes changing the water at all can cause illness and death. And with Biscotti sick he's rubbing it in my face that the water changes are what made him sick. *sighs*


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I have to admit... I love Bettas. They're just so beautiful! I was thinking that maybe once I've learned a great deal more, I'd like to get 2 females, a red and a green, and breed them with this blue one. And once I saw the pictures for a rosetail... They're just beautiful. I would love to have a collection of them. So many colors and all beautiful! But I want to see if I can take care of one first, lol. 

If you don't change the water, doesn't that -increase- chances of disease and infection?  Maybe suggest to him that he sits in the same bathwater 24/7 for a week?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstitch,

In order for your betta to heal his fins and become vibrant and healthy, fresh, conditioned and heated water is very important. 

If your betta is in a 1 gallon container, you'll want to do a 50% and 100% water change each week. If the container is smaller, you'll want to step up the water changes.

Larger tanks w/ filters = less water changes, especially 5 gallons +. You'll want to get a proper water testing kit, to check ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in the tank - all of which will impact your fishy's health.

Yes, you are right, not changing a betta's water is the way to insure their _shortened_ lives are _miserable_!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh, BTW... welcome to the forum, and to the delights of bettas!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> Slipstitch,
> 
> In order for your betta to heal his fins and become vibrant and healthy, fresh, conditioned and heated water is very important.
> 
> ...



^_^ Thank you, for the welcome and the information. I'm kind of excited, his color is starting to look better and he's moving a teeny bit more than he was. Still not as much as I'd like, but hey, somethin's better than nothing. I hope to get a larger tank sometime soon, but it really depends on cash flow. I just couldn't leave that store without at leasst one of the fish... :/ But I also didn't have a lot of time, so I forgot a few things. Hopefully he'll be okay until I can get back there and get the things he needs.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

Right now, if you are providing clean, conditioned and heated water, you are doing well. 

Bettas need to be kept around 78F to be active and comfortable.

If you can cover his tank with plastic wrap, that will help hold in heat and keep the air above the water moist and warm (bettas breathe air at the surface, and need it to be warm and moist - to protect their labyrinth breathing organ).

A heat source can be as simple as raising your room thermostat to the proper temp or keeping a light on the bowl 24/7... but, you'll have to keep a close eye on the water temp and adjust the distance of the light source, to make sure it doesn't get too high - over 86F. 

Once your money flow has loosened up a bit, you can invest in a heater, then work your way up to a bigger container w/ filter, etc. As long as you can do the basics (clean, conditioned and heated water) well, your betta will be well, too.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Congrats on your new fish & welcome to the forum!!! 

One question - I know you said you floated the cup to equalize the temp (good move!), but did you acclimatize him to your water? Pour a little of his water out, replace it with some of your tank water, let it sit for 5 minutes & repeat two more times? 

If not, that could account for his loss of color & sluggish behavior on top of the stress of the move & new surroundings. 

Just something to keep in mind for next time!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Ty Lion mom, I actually had forgotten that... :/ He's doing loads better today though. He's constantly in motion(his little fins waving back and forth are so cute!) and is poking around a bit. His color seems to have picked up a bit and his tail is less droopy. I'm going to be getting a heater, conditioner, and some freeze dried bloodworms tonight. Hopefully it won't be too much of a change for him. I really can't wait to see him in his full glory. At some point soon, I plan on taking some of my spare cashes and rescuing some others(and some tanks for them) from wal-mart. Poor things. He was so spunky in his cup. I can't wait to see him be spunky in his real home.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Can anyone tell me what kind of plant wouldn't take up a ton of room or hinder him in any way that he might like? His tank looks so boring.... But I know absolutely nothing about bettas and water plants except that he has to be able to get to the surface


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I wouldn't use a live plant with your small space, I'd use a soft silk aquarium plant, found at most pet stores and Wal-mart. Careful using craft ones, because the ink can bleed into the water and poison your fish. Betta tend to prefer leafy plants, because they like to perch on them to sleep. They are also shy, so anything they can hide in or behind is good too. I have a collection of aquarium plants I rotate between all my tanks, because it keeps my fish busy. My one has an extreme affinity for a certain plastic plant with a ton of leaves, he LOVES it. Try many different ones and see how your fish reacts!

Be careful the plants don't have any sharp points, as it can tear the fins. On silk ones, be sure to check the plastic where the stem meets the leaves, as this area may be very sharp.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Well... Now I have 2 of them, lol. While I was looking for water conditioner, heater, and some different kinds of food to try with Poseidon, my friend decided I needed a second one. He's incredibly active and swims all over the place. Hopefully Poseidon will get back to being an awesome fishy of beauty and they can glare at each other through the glass for years to come, lol. If I've done it right, there should be pics included. They're kind of crappy, but you can see the condition of Poseidon's fins and pics of the newby, Aries.


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## Bettaluver4evr (Jan 21, 2011)

Wow, they sure are pretty! Thanks for rescuing some poor walmart babies, as most are doomed to live and die in the cup. I definitely reccomend silk plants, I use them for all of my bettas and they look very realistic. 
I was wondering what tank size you have? I can't really guess in the pics, and I didn't read it anywhere. If you posted it somewhere else, sorry! 
Also, is your water nice and clean/clear? I know it might just be the photos, but it looks a lil murky...
Your bettas are very blessed! Hehe. It looks like you have 2 double ray crowntails, which means the crowns split off into 2 little crowns at the end.  I have a double crowned CT too, his name is Liberty.  
I really hope these guys live for years in your care. They are very pretty. Please continue to post pics of their progress!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

They're both in smallish tanks... 1.5 gallons. Once I have a chance, I want to get a 5 or 10 gallon and put in a divider, but that was my limit on monies at the moment. The water is very clean at the moment, my camera just happens to be made of fail, lol. It's a cell phone camera and casts yellow over everything that's not in direct sunlight. Once I convince my friends that I love my fishies, I'll probably get better pics of them. I'm still a little worried about Poseidon(the blue one) but he ate yesterday a little bit, so it's looking better. I need to find a store around here that is fish specific, and has nothing else. 

Also, I've read a lot of people on here saying they feed their bettas daily, sometimes twice daily. And my fish seem to be pretty good about not over eating(they both just take a bite and then just swim around for a while). Why on earth did the girl at petco tell me to only feed them once every 3 or 4 days?!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

The Petco girl is not a rabid betta person, like we are, lol!

She just doesn't know any 'betta-h'... (that's my New England accent kickin' in)


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Lol, I thought it was weird that you'd feed them so little. It seems almost cruel... Aside from reptiles, I've not heard of anything that can live healthily in those conditions.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> Lol, I thought it was weird that you'd feed them so little. It seems almost cruel... Aside from reptiles, I've not heard of anything that can live healthily in those conditions.


I don't know - I only fed my very first betta (Bob) 3 times a week (Mon., Wed., & Fri.) based on the pet shop's recommendation and I had him 1 1/2 years. Pretty good for a pet shop betta, IMO. 

Of course, now I feed my guys 6 days a week! :-D


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Do bettas get diarrhea? is anything the excrete supposed to be green? O.O I was staring at Poseidon and a trail of green liquid(?(it didn't immediately disperse, maybe cloud-like is a better description) was excreted... And there's what looks like a piece of green fuzz still attached. What should I do? Is that normal? I haven't seen Aries do anything of the sort, so I'm a little spazzed.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also as an update, I think Poseidon may actually have fin rot... I've been staring at him like he was tv and his fins seem to be getting worse, more jagged, and a couple spots on the edge look really dark... I plan on treating him for it, just throwing an update at those who've responded to my post and such. And thank you all for your patience with me! ^_^ Aries, however, is in top health and super spunky. I can't wait to get him a larger tank and stuff to poke around at and make bubble nests in. Just like I can't wait for Poseidon to perk up and be his beautiful self again. Once I have made sure both boys are totally healthy and yuck free, I intend on moving them into a huge tank with a divider and some decor. Poor things, don't have anything for them to hide in yet. I can't wait to get some good photos too. They really are beautiful. And I just noticed today that Aries has a lot of metallic colors to him  his scales have an iridescent pink sheen to them and his fins have silver and pink streaks through them while his primary color is a bright red. Also... Is it normal for fish to bob their heads at you? I wasn't aware that was even physically possible for them.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

And a friend has a 10 gallon tank she might give me once she checks with her husband! Win! Epic epic win! ^_^


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm going to ask you PM (private message)oldfishlady. 

Oldfishlady is a super moderator on the board and is very experianced. She can perhaps suggest a treatment that would be helpful.

Normal excretions from a Betta should be clear for pee and poo should look like, for lack of a better term, like a tiny, tiny cinnamon roll.

Being that these fish were in dire straights when you bought them, they probably both will need treatments.

I hope they both get better soon!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I actually have already pmed her, lol. I'm not sure if I mentioned the green though... I'll double check and if I haven't I'll message her again or add it to that message or something. Now that I know the green is absolutely not normal I'm kind of incredibly worried about him. I'm afraid to try any meds or anything but also afraid not to... Ares has been doing beautifully, very active and such. The only worry I have for him is the scales on his head don't seem to be entirely there, but that could just be coloring as he isn't acting sick or anything. Though he does have an absolute fascination for attacking his pebbels in his tank, lol. Poseidon, though... I really hope he pulls through. I may be getting the 10 gal. tank, but he won't be going in it for a -while-


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

LOL, I love how you love your fishies! So much enthusiasim! Your fish are lucky to have you as an owner.

While you are waiting to hear from OFL...

I would do a 100% water change for Poseidon. Fresh, conditioned water is important in the treatment of fin rot. Also, if you could refresh my memory... what temperature is Poseidon's water?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Poseidon's water is currently at 76... I haven't been able to afford a heater yet, so I'm making do with frequent water changes of the appropriate temp, a tank light that gives off a decent amount of heat, and keeping him near the vent(I live with my grandmother, she keeps the temp at about 75 in the house). Not directly in front or anything like that. And thank you... I really do love betta fish and Poseidon just makes me wanna fix him, lol. He's also my first pet ever and I'm slightly obsessive. I'll do the water change now.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

76F is good for the temp... it slows down the bactrial growth, so Poseidon isn't overtaken by it. 

I would wait to treat until OFL tells you what to do. There are products on the market for bettas that aren't actually good for them! 

I can't remember the names, but look out for anything that contain Tea Tree Oil (Meleluca). It damages the betta's breathing system.

I can tell you that some of the treatments OFL uses include Epsom Salt, Aquarium Salt, and decaffinated green tea. They are inexpensive and easy to get. 

I couldn't hazard a guess, however, about what she'd reccomend in this situation.

Is Poseidon eating ok?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Poseidon hasn't really eaten at all... He ate a pellet last night, but I think it may have been accidental. Swam up like he was going for air and was all surprised by it. He didn't spit it out though, so that's a good thing I suppose. 

Why on earth would anyone make a fish have to breath tea tree oil?  

I've been lurking on the forums a lot tonight, trying to find answers and I've seen that he normal remedy is 1 tsp of epsom salt to a gal. of water and such. That's part of why I initially contacted her, I would greatly prefer to give my fish something natural as opposed to a harsh anti bacterial and she seems to have a good amount of experience with her bettas.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"Why on earth would anyone make a fish have to breath tea tree oil? "

We've all been wondering that too... 

"I've been lurking on the forums a lot tonight, trying to find answers and I've seen that he normal remedy is 1 tsp of epsom salt to a gal. of water and such. That's part of why I initially contacted her, I would greatly prefer to give my fish something natural as opposed to a harsh anti bacterial and she seems to have a good amount of experience with her bettas."

Yup, she's the 'go to girl' on these things!

Alright, I'm off to a job interview. I'll check in later to see how things are going.
Good luck!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Good luck on your interview! I hope you get it! ^_^


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

Awww, thank you! 
We'll see how things go; next round of interviews next week.

How's things going?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I have Poseidon in his salt water bath of awesome. He kinda spazzed for a few minutes but is now cheerfully blowing bubbles. I'll keep you updated as he goes along. ^_^ I'm incredibly excited that he's blowing bubbles, from what I've read, that means he isn't feeling too utterly terrible. Also, he hasn't released the green uck again and has been a little better since, so maybe he had eaten something that his fishy stomach was not appreciative of?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Omg Poseidon actually ate! I'm terribly excited. I'm waiting to see what other changes happen, but so far he's incredibly energetic and -hungry-. He and Ares played with bloodworms, but I got Poseidon to nom on a few flakes. So terribly excited! I have a 10 gallon tank for them now too! Just need to figure out how to make a divider for it so they can goexist. Got a proper heater for them so the water's staying around 78-80 degrees and they're both perking up a good deal. ^_^


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

It sounds like Poseidon is taking well to his treatment. I am so glad! 

If you do a forum search on "dividers" or "plastic dividers", you should pull up some good information on the subject. Apparently, plastic embroidery canvas is a very low cost alternative to pet store bought dividers, and safe to use in the tank. 

Good luck to you and your fishes! I think you're gonna do great!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Fishy, I think I love you. That's brilliant! I have TONS of plastic embroidery canvas all over the house! And as long as I file any bits that might be rough or sharp, it's be perfect! Omg! I was kind of stressing because I only have the one heater so I didn't want something solid. I figure if I put some silk plants along that divider, it should keep them from stressing eachother out too much. And I can also use that as a lid on the new tank. YAY!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So Poseidon's color is starting to come back. Parts of him are returning to that beautiful, glowing royal blue that first attracted me to him. The interesting bit... He might not be a solid blue. I won't know until I get him into un-medicated water, but I'm 90% certain that there's a green sheen to his scales. Little dude really does match my hair! lol


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## Bettaluver4evr (Jan 21, 2011)

Haha, wow, that's so cool! I love blue green bettas, they are so pretty.  I'm so glad to hear Poseidon is doing better!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm really excited. He's picked up so much over the last 30 hours! O.O The raggedy bits of his tail have pretty much dissappeared and what discoloration was there doesn't seem to be there anymore. He's also eating like a pig! I'm so incredibly excited! Ares is also doing wonderfully. There was a worry about ammonia burns from him being in that stupid cup, but the black spots I had noticed on him are almost completely gone(I started treating him when I started with Poseidon) and he's also energetic and foody. He begs for food, I swear it. Little guys are masters of manipulation, lmao.


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## amandiepants (Jan 14, 2011)

slipstitch... what was your final medical treatment in full detail so i can remember it?


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Well, things have certainly picked up from the start of this thread. Congrats, Slipstitch, for rescueing/saving/healing a beautiful fish, and for doing it twice. It's amazing and you deserve a very big round of applause/pat on the back. I hope your bettas stay well in the years to come. Remember to use *aquarium sealant *for your divider. (Oh, and I see you like Mythology)


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

amandiepants said:


> slipstitch... what was your final medical treatment in full detail so i can remember it?


The orders I was given was to make a solution of 1 tsp of epsom salt to 1 gallon of water(appropriate temps) and steep 1 decaffinated green tea bag in it. On day 3 up the salt dosage to 2 tsp per gal. Do said treatment for 10 days, with frequent water changes. I've been doing a 100% water change for both of them once per day and a 50% in the middle of the day.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

fishman12 said:


> Well, things have certainly picked up from the start of this thread. Congrats, Slipstitch, for rescueing/saving/healing a beautiful fish, and for doing it twice. It's amazing and you deserve a very big round of applause/pat on the back. I hope your bettas stay well in the years to come. Remember to use *aquarium sealant *for your divider. (Oh, and I see you like Mythology)


Thank you. ^_^ These are my first fishies, like ever(except the ones my mom killed when I was a kid) and I'm really excited that they've gotten this far. I'm really very glad that I found this website and people who know stuff and can give me marching orders, lol.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Did you use water conditioner? You need it to remove chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals from tap water. If you didnt it could explain your fish's drastic reaction.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Alex09 said:


> Did you use water conditioner? You need it to remove chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals from tap water. If you didnt it could explain your fish's drastic reaction.


Yes, I used water conditioner... I would suggest reading the entire thread maybe? No offense meant, but I already covered that earlier and such.


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Remember to cycle the 10 gallon first! Plus it'll give time to completely ensure your Bettas are healthy so they don't give eachother diseases, and it'll give you time to make a tank filled with stuff Lol. When you setup the divider, it's a good idea to put plants (fake or real) in front of it so they can't see eachother and wont stress eachother out.

Hooray for a good recovery! I've heard adding tannins (basically what you did with the tea) Will make them just burst with strength and health. I think people call it "black water streams" or something when you put tannins in their permanent home. 

In case you haven't already seen it, here's a good divider tutorial:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=40025&highlight=tank+dividing+tutorial


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

baylee767 said:


> Remember to cycle the 10 gallon first! Plus it'll give time to completely ensure your Bettas are healthy so they don't give eachother diseases, and it'll give you time to make a tank filled with stuff Lol. When you setup the divider, it's a good idea to put plants (fake or real) in front of it so they can't see eachother and wont stress eachother out.
> 
> Hooray for a good recovery! I've heard adding tannins (basically what you did with the tea) Will make them just burst with strength and health. I think people call it "black water streams" or something when you put tannins in their permanent home.
> 
> ...


I'm actually plotting on ways of not only keeping them invisible from eachother, but also keeping them away from the filter. I'm so excited about their recoveries... I'm thinking of making another rescue tomorrow or the day after... But Idk. If I rescue him... it'll only perpetuate the cycle... But leaving him there to die makes me wanna cry... Idk what to do.  I went to Petsmart today and I decided to look at the Betta cups because I'm rather addicted. ALL of them were in terribly filthy water(made my walmart fish rescue's cup look pristine) that was cloudy as all get out. Almost all of them had fin rot, at least half of them had such a severe fungal infection that they almost looked like little clouds with eyes and fins and were laying on the bottoms of their cups. Many were floating dead in their cups. When I mentioned to the fishboy that the fish were sick and dying, he looked at me like I was insane for caring.The only one that was looking healthy enough to keep alive was a beautiful veiltail of chocolate coloring with pink fins. He's so gorgeous and I just know I could save his life... But if I save him, they'll just continue this horrible treatment.


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

That sounds like my petco )=

Bettas really are one of the most cruelly treated creatures. I just hope one day it'll be different...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... Um... My self control factor? yeah, we can count that out. I went back to the store and got the fish I had mentioned earlier. I think I was wrong about him being a chocolate color... but only time will tell what color he is. I have taken care of his water change and have him sitting in his quarantine(also sanitized) cup with the salt bath stuffs in it. I should know by tomorrow if he's going to survive. I just couldn't help myself. :/


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

LOL, I go away a couple days and look at you... master of dividers and healer of fishies! Hooray for you and your bettas!

Now, as to the crappy betta keeping at those two stores you mentioned...

When you go back there for your next visit, if the bettas are not in clean cups and/or look ill, ask to speak to the store manager. Let he/she know that "you are a frequent customer and would like to remain so, but"... and then, very politely, let them know what your concerns are. The store managers may not be aware that the fish department is "getting out of hand", so to speak.

Then, give the stores a few days, and recheck them. If the situation has not improved, do not patronize the store OR... even 'betta'.... very politely write corporate headquaters and let them know what is happening, who you spoke to at that particular store, etc.

Heads will roll. Corporate hates to hear that their frequent customers are too grossed out by poor animal husbandry, in their stores, to shop there!

After that, change should be coming. If it doesn't arrive in a business quarter, then I would definitely consider patronizing stores that *care* about & for their animals.

BTW, their are many breeders on this forum would would be happy to sell you fishies... and know of go-to sources for many things.  

You'll learn a lot hanging out here. Everybody is really nice and willing to help.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I kind of already contacted headquarters after the first trip there. The second trip, they had taken most of the dead and sick ones from the 2 shelves.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Great! They're starting to clean up their act. Next time you go, make sure they're following through. If they're not, you know what to do.

Things don't change if we don't speak up. The key is to be polite. We may feel sad and angry for what has happened, but sadness and anger won't help the fish get better care. 

You're on your way to not only helping the bettas in your care, but the ones who have to wait for their special person to come along. 

Great job!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you ^_^ Looks like being obsessive is a good thing! Lol


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So I made an unpleasant discovery today... I bought an ammonia testing kit. Tested my tap water, the color went a super dark green. 5.0 mg. I have ammonia treatment stuffs now... I really wish I had known about that to begin with. Is that even safe for human consumption?! I'm going to be calling the water company tomorrow and question them about that a bit. I can't imagine that that could possibly be healthy. For me, my gran, or my fish!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Being a good fish owner does set your mind on the importance of water quality! 

I will agree that the test results sound... not so good... but let me ask you a couple things:

Who makes the test kit and what does the test consist of?

Have you run the test more than once?

Many of the people on the forum (myself included) use the API Freshwater Master test kit. It includes two PH tests (low/high), an ammonia test, a nitrite test and a nitrate test. 

Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are part of the cycling process in tanks. At first, ammonia and the nitrates spike, then the nitrates show up once the good bacteria show up to do their thing - pollution control. This process takes 4-6 weeks, more or less.

Ammonia and nitrates are poison to fish, period. Once your tank cycles however, they are under control. Water changes should keep the Nitrates at acceptable levels (below 40ppm, 5-20ppm should be ideal).

There's more to cycling than what I just told you... but I don't want to bury you in details at the moment. I trying to illustrate the need for a Master test kit. Without it, you can't follow your tank's cycling, and your fish can get poisoned without you knowing why.

That being said, water changes are essential to diluting any poisons in the water, whether or not you know what they are. So keep up on water changes! They are essential to your fishes' health.

Small tanks (<1gallon up to 2.5 gallons) don't need to be cycled... you can do all your water changes by hand. The small the tank, the faster the toxins build.

2.5 gallons and above are typically cycled. This cuts down greatly on the water changes (but they are still very important) and generally helps to stablize the tank enviroment.

Let me know if you have any questions about all this... I know I had TONS when I was starting out!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I can't afford an actual test kit yet... :/ Also... I really don't understand cycling at -all-. I mean, I've read about it tons, researched it all over google... Can you explain it in dumb people terms? I mean, I'm not stupid or anything, but for some reason I'm having issues with getting it into my brain exactly -how- to cycle it. Some say to have the fish in there while it cycles... Some say not to... I'm so incredibly confused and I don't want to mess it up. At the moment I have stuff that's supposed to keep ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, chlorine, and chloramine under control or non existent... But... Still not sure what I'm supposed to do with the cycling process.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay, I re-read your posts, and you've got your bettas in a divided 10 gallon with heat (yay!).

I will help you with cycling. First, I have another question, however (I'm full of those, aren't I?):

Do you have a filtration system yet?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

^_^ yep! I just got it today! I'm so excited! It takes up next to no room in the tank.... So excited! The one that I had bought previously took up so much room I wanted to cry when I was trying to figure out how to divide the tank.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay, that's great news! :mrgreen:

I need to know a little more... What type of filtration system did you get (brand name and size)? And a reminder, please... what's your tank temperature at? These factors affect how your tank cycles...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

filter: aquatech filter 5-15 gal. temp is a steady 78.


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## mjregan4 (Feb 26, 2011)

*sick betta*

your betta is sick and you should take him to a pet store and they will take a look at him and tell whats wrong;-).


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

mjregan4 said:


> your betta is sick and you should take him to a pet store and they will take a look at him and tell whats wrong;-).


... read the entire thread hun. My betta boys are nice and healthy. Speaking of which... Update for everyone keeping up atm, Ares and Poseidon are happy swimmy fishies. ^_^ Apollo is slowly healing up I think. Waiting to see results on him.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Lol, too funny... THAT'S THE SAME FILTER I GOT! :welldone:

Yes, it is small and is what I use on my 5 gallon tank. Since you have males, btw, the current may be a little strong for them. You can use a small filter sponge to 'baffle' the water flow, so the current is much gentler. 

Luckily, sponge filters are very very cheap, and if you want suggestions I can help you with that, too.

Now, back to the cycling. 

Ten gallon tanks are best cycled, and since you have a filtration system, guess what? You are going to cycle!

Will post more in a minute... brb


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Sweet! Ty! ^_^ And I was actually fairly worried about the current, true. What about the "waterfall" effect? Does it bother them?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

The waterfall itself doesn't bother them... its the underwater current (caused by the waterfall) that buffets them about.

When I split my 5 gallon, I put my ginourmous female veiltail, Baby Blue, on the filter side. She's over 3" long (I know, she's a freak) and even she was getting knocked around by the underwater current (and she likes current, lol).

The current is stronger on the filter side of ta split tank than it would be in an undivided tank. It's a physics thing. At any rate, all you need is to get a filter sponge, preferably thin and slightly wider than the 'waterfall opening', and gentle wedge the sponge into said opening.

You're not looking to prevent waterflow, or block the opening. You just want the sponge to be 'in the way' of the waterflow. The water will flow through the sponge and slow down the force of the water going into the tank. 

You can experiment with different sponges, to see what works best for your tank. PS: if you buy a black sponge, it won't stick out like a sore thumb!

Back to cycling in a moment...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh, what about the suction from the thing in the water? Will that bother them or mess with their fins?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Tomorrow we will continue on cycling. I gotta eat like a betta (NOM NOM NOM) and get some zzzzzzzzzs.

The bad news about cycling... you NEED a master test kit. Cycling without daily testing is treacherous at best.

The good news... we'll figure all this out tomorrow. 
No worries!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Suction thingee is the 'intake' on your filter. We'll talk more about that, too...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Have a good night and thank you ^_^


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Virtical stripes and chubbiness on a female betta means eggs right? Like most likely and stuff?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Eggs? Ummm... not always, lol! Could be stress and bloat. Time will tell. 

*Intake filter:* Some people wrap materials over the intake, to put a soft barrier between the intake and the fish. There are drawbacks to doing this. Larger particles will not get sucked into the filter. Also, gunk and slime will build up on the cover and will need to be removed from time to time. The water flow to the filter may become impeded... and that is a big problem for this particular filter (the one we both own). 

If water can't get into the filter, the filter may become damaged beyond repair. In fact, the filter's instructions warn not to even _plug the filter in_ without water inside. If a modification to the intake causes the filter to run dry/without sufficent water, your warranty on your filter will be voided. 

The best thing to do is to contact the manufacturer directly (they have an 800 number - I know, I've called it in the past), and explain what you want to do (protect fish's fins from intake cage). They will give you advice that won't void your warranty! Be sure to get the person's name who give you the advice and the incident number - just in case. 

*Cycling:* You've had your tank set up a couple days. You are at the beginning of your tank's first cycle. 

Ideally, a tank cycle takes about 4-6 weeks. It should be done without a living creature in the tank, because toxins build up during the process which will injure/sicken/kill the creatures inside. 

Like many first timers, I did the cycle thing backwards... I set up the tank, put the fish in, and *then* found out about the hazards cycling could pose to my fish. 

On the advice of forum members, I got a master test kit. A master test kit is critical in this situation, because when the toxins rise to dangerous levels for your fish (they will, because that is part of this natural process), you must perform water changes to remove said toxins and retest afterwards to be sure you've done it sufficently.

These water changes save your fishy's life, but they also slow down the cycling process. Until enough favorable bacteria build up in your biological filter to covert the toxins to nitrates, you will have to monitor the tank daily and change the water as needed.

You could guess at it and change X amount of water every X amount of days for two months and hope everything goes well... but it's a big risk for your fishy's health.

Granted, your tank's first cycle may complete with no fish death without testing. But everytime you have a major change in your tank (new plants, new fish, sick fish, overfeeding, removing too much water, bacterial death due to antibiotics added to the tank, etc.), your tank may possibly *mini-cycle*. And you (and your fishy, worn out from the first cycle) will run the gamut again, unaided.

My advice: get the master test kit. Use it daily, until you've cycled through your first cycle. After that, once a week should be good, until your next mini-cycle.

I really can't do anymore to guide you through your cycle without test results to review. We'd _both_ be guessing at that point... and that's pointless! :|

Let me know what you decide to do. I will help if I can.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Ty, I'll be beginning my tank's cycle tonight. Had to wait for the auarium sealant to dry on the divider. Also, as an update, poseidon, ares, hera, and mnemosyne are doing fine. Medusa has ick. Apollo died today though... i'd been treating him for fin rot and he only seemed to get worse... got out of the shower today and he was gone...  at least the other 5 are doing okay and such.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh, I'm sorry for your loss. 

I'm sure in his fishy way, Apollo knew you were doing the best you could for him.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I really did try very hard...

On the plus side, I'm going to be setting up my tank for the boys tonight! Also, I have pics of all of them that actually don't look terrible. I figured out that if I take pics while they're nomming, I can get some good ones. Also, I think Medusa has ick, I'll be posting a pic of her in a sec to confirm. Also also, I have this stuff(given to me) called Stress Zyme +. What do I use it for? It just says to add it to 10 gallons of aquarium water...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, -this- pic I'm not going to shrink down(don't want to lose any detail). I've read ick to be little white spots all over the fish, well... She certainly does have those. Quite a lot.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Yup- - that's ich for SURE!!!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

That's what I thought. So it's good that I have her in treatement, lol. I wish she and Poseidon were easier to get good pics of. She's such a cute little thing.


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## Pekemom (Jan 27, 2011)

Careful of that light bulb!!! They get the water very very hot. Don't leave it unattended...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

**nod** Don't worry. I generally don't keep it close to them. I'm using it for a heat source to some degree atm, but not overly much and not for long. Just til their tank is ready.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Is this something I should use for getting my tank started/set up? Or should I leave it alone? http://www.petco.com/product/3263/Aquarium-Products-Freshwater-Biozyme.aspx


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Holy crap, I might be brilliant. Does plexiglass tend to have any damaging qualities to it? I'm thinking about hitting up the hardware store to make the perfect tank... O.O


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Whoa, you've been busy! 

What are you treating Medusa with (for the ICK)?

StressZyme+: Do you have a bottle of it, or a pre-measured packet? Is there an expiration date on it?

Plexiglass: I did Bing search on the internet for "plexiglass fish tanks" and pulled up lots of links, including how-to-build links. Try your own search, and you should pull up the same.

The main concerns about plexiglass are that it scratches and if it's not thick enough, it will warp and bow. It is also more expensive than glass. So, keep that in mind as you design your perfect tank.

Did you decide to do a fish-less cycle for your tank?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Medusa: the same salt thing as the other fish as well as aqua something that's specifically for parasites and ick.

Stress zyme: premeasured packets, they expire in 2012

Glass is cheaper?! The entire reason I was thinking of plexiglass is because I thought it'd be cheaper! *facepalm* still working out the logistics of building the tank. It should be fun.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Medusa: Good, definitely want to add ick-specific treatment to the salt thing.

StressZyme+: Add a packet. I would not use in tank as a weekly treatment (one your tank is cycled and the fish are in, you've got plenty of bacteria), but okay to start a cycle with.

Glass is cheaper, stronger, doesn't scratch. Weighs more than plexi, though. Better for tanks. Plexi is better for dividers. But that's just my opinion. 

Okay, still need to know if you are doing a fish-less cycle...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

UNtil I can get the master test thingy I'm keeping the fish out of the tank. The girls are going to be in their quarantine cups for a few more days though.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Yay! Good plan!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Btw, Medusa is almost completely clear of ick. ^_^ There's only a couple white dots left on her. Her coloring is incredibly interesting. Not even sure how to describe it. Also, is red a super common coloring in bettas? All of my girls have some red somewhere on them, as does Poseidon.


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## RiverStoneBetta (Feb 22, 2011)

Red is the most common layer of color in bettas, and that's the layer that breeders have to filter out in order to get other color combinations, if I understand it correctly.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstitch,

I'm so happy Medusa is feeling 'betta'... ick is a nasty thing...

Pet store grade bettas often seem to come in either red, blue or green, lol. 

What you find in pet stores are (quite often) non-show-quality, non-conforming, not-for-breeding 'mutt' (yes, like the dog) bettas. Now, some of these bettas can be quite beautiful in their own right, and some stores have more tail and color varieties, but by and large, they're 'mutts'.

That doesn't make them any less beautiful in the eyes of their owners, however. 

There are breeders on the board, who have some lovely fish, and if you go to a site like Aquabid or Ebay, you can look at the thai bettas that come from overseas. They are strikingly different than what you'd see in a pet shop.

There are breeders trying to pawn off non-show quality fish on these boards, too. There are even breeders breeding deformaties, and calling them a new breed - again, like in the dog world - think puggles and extra-wrinkly wrinkle dogs (I forget the breed name). 

If people are informed, like the look of a deformed betta and want it for a pet, fine. But I wouldn't pay import and shipping fees (and high breeder prices) for one, and I wouldn't breed it. 

Lol, okay, I'll stop now...


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## RiverStoneBetta (Feb 22, 2011)

I feel that way about Extreme Rosetails. You can only stretch a poor betta's rays so far before they collapse, but still some people push them even further.

Which is odd, because crowntails seem to be the hardiest bettas I've ever dealt with.


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## Kiena (Feb 17, 2011)

Slipstitch,

So glad to see your fishy clan is doing well! I'm sorry to hear about your loss, but at least he had a great last few days with a loving owner!

Blu is doing much better after all your help! The only thing needing healing at this point is his left pectoral fin which just needs to fill out a bit more.

So what is your grand plan for this perfect tank you're talking about?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Kiena: That's awesome! ^_^ So glad. I absolutely adore OLF for her advice. 

Thank you guys for the answer about the coloring. Oh man, if only I could really get all of Hera's coloring on cam! She's a little rainbow!

The tank of doom: 7 ft long, 4 ft wide, 15 inches deep. This is going to be FUN


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## Kiena (Feb 17, 2011)

Slipstitch said:


> The tank of doom: 7 ft long, 4 ft wide, 15 inches deep. This is going to be FUN


Whoa!! That sounds big. Hehe


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

It is. If I've done my math right it's going to be 80ish gallons. O.O I can't wait to get it built! Just hoping that my bookshelves can hold up to it, lol. PLanning on turning them on their sides and using them as a makeshift table. It -should- work.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

80 Gallons X *Weight* of 1 US *Gallon* of water = approx. 8.35 lb = 668lbs in water weight alone, sans decorations, gravel and the critters. 

That's three guys at 222.67 lbs. or one really fat guy @ 668lbs. Make sure you shelves AND your floor can handle it - and check your homeowners insurance too.

It sounds like a great tank, but the physics of it all may be iffy... something that big is a big as a bathtub! Heck, it's *bigger* than my bathtub!!! mg:


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Lol. Should be fun! I've been debating about trying to spider proof the back room in my basement and move my space down there. Concrete won't care how big my tank is! Lol


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh, I was soooo hoping you were going to put it on the lowest level on concrete!!! So much safer!

The fish will eat the spiders if the fall in  
Or do you not dig spiders? 
I don't mind them, as long as they don't 'drop' on me... how rude! Can't stand that.

If/when I have the opportunity, I'd like to do the same (have a super big tank).

Just think of the sorority I could have then, LOL!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm totally phobic of spiders, lol. Too many legs!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

*They* probably think *you* don't have enough!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

This is OT, however... you don't drive a Mazda, do you? :|
*Spider infestation leads to recall of 65,000 Mazdas*

http://content.usatoday.com/communi.../spider-infestation-recall-web-mazda6-mazda/1


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OMG thank god. no I don't. Um... Do female Bettas flare up like males do around the gills? Or do I have 2 mislabled male plakats? O.O


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so update! I set up a 15 gal. today. 6 Betta girls and 3 Otocinclus(the kind that only get to be like 2 inches long). I may have to take the red girl out... She's being a little bit much on the harassment side. The rest seem to get along fine. As far as the otos, they's a little high strung... The girls enjoy poking them(not nipping!) and the chasing them around a little bit. It's terribly adorable! Probably going to upgrade to a 20 gal. once I get the money. The building of the omg tank will be a while in the making though. The girls are terribly adorable! I haven't named all of them yet, though the pics for Hera, Medusa, and Mnemosyne can be seen in my albums. The new ones are a lovely bright red veiltail, a lavender, and a purpley green. The red one is interesting... She has bright, metallic blue dots in her eyes.  Just 1 dot in the bottom of each eye. Very interesting. I also have the tanks set up for the boys I want and have the boys picked out. Of course I've described Ares and Poseidon already, but I also got a beautiful emerald green male(vt), a deep purple vt, a really cool purple, red, and metallic green vt, a double tail half moon with a black body and black and clear butterfly pattern to his fins, and a double tail vt who is completely white and clear. My friend and I are curious if he'll reflect light  The double tails are set up in 3 gallon tanks(will be decorated soon), Ares, Poseidon, and Dionysus(the purple vt) are set up in their divided 10 gallon, and the other 3 vts are waiting for their 10 gal. to cure before I let them run amok in their new home. They all seem to be in fairly good health and fairly non stressed all things considered. I may have to get the red female a separate home though, she seems a bit more aggressive that I'd like.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a bunch of bamboo for decor purposes and to be good for the algea eaters. Excited!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... The water in my boys tank tests good. No real amounts of nitrates or nitrites, treated to not have chlorine/chloramine, no ammonia, good ph... But this morning I woke up to my boys laying on their sides in the water... Ares keeps floating on his side or upside down... Poseidon is just acting like when I first got him... What could have gone wrong?! I wanna cry...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay, one thing at at time... has anything changed for Ares & Poseideon?

Temp ok?
Last water change?
Did you conditon the water (it's easy to forget)?
What did they eat last, and how often are you feeding?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Temp is 78, their last water change before being acclimated to their new tank was about 12 hrs before the new tank. The tank has been cycling for 2 days, conditioned water, stuff in the water to nix parasites, nitrites, nitrates, chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia(same as the water they were in already), they ate just before going into the new tank last night at about 9 pm.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Females bettas do flare, although its not (usually) as spectacluar as when the males flare.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

First, I'd do a 50% water change first and see if that perks them up.

How do their bellies look? Any swelling or signs of bloat?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

No bloating... They look fine except for clamped fins and floating fail... Could something toxic have gotten into the tank?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Well, anything can happen. It could be the water or the food. Tackle the water first.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Mk. I took them out and put them in quarantine... Is that okay?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

What did you use for quarantine water? Are they heated?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Heated and slowly changing to medicated water with tannins in it... -very- slowly.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay... great! Is there still another fish in the tank these guys came from?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

No, it was just these two. My other betta boys are still in quarantine until I can be certain they're actually healthy


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

If there is one more fish in the tank, once the first two are stablized, I'd pull him from the tank as well, as a precaution.

What sort of food have they been eating? Are the first two eating the same as the other fish?

I had a betta who clamped up instantly and started to look ill when I put a certain powdered fry food in the water. She was in a very small container at the time. I did a 100% water change and in a few hours, she was normal again.

The fish know things we don't. I threw the food out, even though it was brand new.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I've been feeding Ares and Poseidon Omega One freeze dried brine shrimp since day 1(a couple weeks ago). The only thing that changed was the tank water... I'm going to take it to Petco today and have them test it and see if they can give me any answers.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay. 

1. You may want to switch to a betta pellet for more well-rounded nutrition source. 

2. I'd eye the bottle of food you've got now with suspicion, for now.

3. Fast the bettas in QT for a day or so.

4. Take what the Petco people tell you with a grain of salt, unless you have one that is very knowledgable in Bettas.

It sounds like you got the master test kit... did you?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I couldn't afford to pay 40 bucks for it... I was able to get test strips for the nitrites, nitrates, and ph for fairly cheap. Could general or carbonate hardness be part of the problem maybe?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Then again, if that was the problem, the girls would be acting sick in their tank...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

$40.00? I paid $25.00 for mine. Sorry to hear they are so expensive where you are. 

How are the boy looking now?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Poseidon's doing a little better... Oh, a thing you might need to know, when I took him out of his tank, there was what looked like spider webbs/cobwebs on his fins. It's gone now... But... Is it because I didn't do daily water changes on the 10 gal. when the fish weren't in there? As far as Ares goes... I'm not very hopeful for his survival...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Ares: Make sure his QT water isn't too deep, so he doesn't have to struggle to get to the surface to breathe...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

As to the 'spider webs', let me do a little research on that. Is this the tank that came from a friend? Do you know the history of the tank: what was in it, any illnesses?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope, brand shiny new tank. I'm thinking that maybe the silicone used for the dividers was not what it was supposed to be. I'm debating about doing a 100% water change and sanitizing -everything-. It's the only variable that makes sense.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I found an article that may explain the 'spidery' threads. I think it's best you read it yourself, so you can identify directly any other symptons:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070125185844AA8mkMo


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

At this point, I think what you are seeing with Ares and Poisidon could be two immune-compromised fish still fighting for good health. Their bodies are so weakened from the abuse they suffered in the store, that they could either:

1. Still have lingering illness that has now surfaced; or
2. Are in such a weakend state, that the bacteria etc usually present in the water is running riot over them.

Try to nail down the boys' symptoms, and PM OFL. Hopefully she can suggest a way to both treat their illness and boost their immunity.

I'd change their QT water 100% every 12 hours or so... more for Ares, if he is in very little water.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The link you sent me looks fairly accurate... I just don't know how it could have devoloped that seriously overnight. I'll continue their quarantine routine and message ofl when I get home. Poor guys... I may have to keep them in 1 or 2 gallon tanks instead of the good cycled tank i'd planned on. I don't know if ares is going to make it. He looked pretty bad when I left. Poor guys...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm so sorry... I do hope it works out for Ares and Poisidon... but with 'rescues', it's always dicey. All you can do is do you best, and hope they are not too compromised before you get them...

When you talk to OFL, be sure to ask her how to sanitize your tank (if she thinks it's neccessary). Always good to know how.

"I just don't know how it could have devoloped that seriously overnight."

If your betta boys' immune system is shot, that would explain it. With no ability to fight off anything, EVERYTHING can attack them... and quickly.

Hopefully in QT, your boys will fight this off. I'd keep them QT'd until not only their symptoms are gone, but until you've had some time to boost their immunity. Putting them back in a community tank setting (before their immunity is built up) may just start the whole awful cycle up again.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah, I'm seriously considering just keeping the boys in 2 gallon tanks from now on... that way I can monitor them easier and as far assmall tanks being hard to keep up with... I'm ocd and have no life, if anything it'd be good for me, lol. I just hope I can get them through this. On the up side, the betta girls are doing fantastically. They're all healthy and active and excited with their new tank. No signs of real agression, lots of games of tag with the otocinclus.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Glad to hear the sorority is going well... but since the 15 gallon tank hasn't yet cycled (and it's gonna, trust me), keep an eye on your water! The otocincius will be especially sensitive to bad water.

Yeah, I understand the OCD thing - so all the OCD-ish things one does to keep a healthy fish tank come easily! Also - I'm still unemployed at the moment (another interview next week - yay), so tending fishes is keeping me too busy to worry. 

Helping 'fishy' people (like yourself) is keep my mind focused and typing skills sharp. Don't want to start at a new job and just sit there and drool, lol!

Let me know how the boys are doing... got my fingers crossed for you...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Sorry I didn't post sooner... Watching a friends 3 yr old. Ares died before I got home and Poseidon followed soon after... I'm not really sure what I'm going to do... Aside from re-sanitize the 10 gallon they were meant to go to and set up dividers that don'te need a sealant. I really can't help but wonder if the sealant wasn't the issue... I mean, Medusa just got over ick and is doing just fine in the sorority tank... Idk. 

Question: All tests for the sorority tank read normal, the fish aren't sick or spazzy or anything, but it's been cloudy ever since I started the filter running... Why is that? Can I do anything to fix it? and it's not like SUPER cloudy, nor is it getting cloudier, it's just vaguely cloudy. Enough that my ocd goes HEY! HEY! FIX THAT! NOW! AAAGGGHHH!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh, I'm so sorry... the poor dears. 
They may have been too far gone by the time you found them in the store.
At least they spent their last days with a caring person. 

Sanitizing the tank sounds like a good idea.

Aquarium sealant shouldn't be a problem, once it has properly cured.

The cloudiness in the tank is bacterial bloom... it's normal... should go away in a couple of days. 

Keep up on your water testing... I'd do it twice a day... until your tank cycles. While the good bacterial is getting set up in your filter... Any time you test positive for ammonia and nitrites, it's time for a water change. In any amount, these chemicals can stress/harm your fishes.

Good Luck from here on out... I know you've tried your best... rescues are tough... sometimes there is no 'saving' them... just making their last days happy ones.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Here is a sticky on cycling, to help you as you cope with your 'fish-in' cycle... 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you very much. Poor guys...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Huh. After reading the thread you linked me to, I realized that I may have "kick started" my girl's tank... I had gotten some drift wood from a friend's tank for my otocinclus...  That would explain why there've been no real spikes in anything yet maybe. Also, planning on planting bamboo all along the back of the tank and a few scattered around the tank for them to play in. As an update, the sorority tank is doing fantastically. The girls are getting along great, no fighting over food or hidey spaces(which is vaguely creepy... ) and no fin nipping whatsoever. Some of the girls' colors are starting to really show as well. Hera has tie dyed looking fins! Pearl body with blue, green and purple tye died fins. One of the girls I haven't named yet is a deep purple with silver lines on her gills, and another is emerald green blending out into blue. I'm looking forward to seeing how they look in, oh, a month's time. Only one of my girls had to have a seperate tank, way too agressive, but once I took her out, things seemed to stop being quite so insane.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, I decided to go ahead and re-cycle the 10 gallon Ares and Poseidon died from. I'm going to sanitize everything with boiling water or close to it and remove the sealant from the dividers and use suction cups and some creativity for it instead. I know it probably wasn't any of the tank decor and such... But I want to be absolutely certain that everything is perfectly fine before I put fish in it again.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

Your sorority sounds like its coming along nicely. When you get it finished, I look forward to seeing some pictures! And some close-ups of the girls 

I just sanded some more terracotta pot pieces for my 20H, and except for a couple more silk plants (and room for maybe a couple more betta girls), it's done. I'm hoping my bf and I will get some good shots of it this week. I'll let you know when they're posted.

Super-sanitizing the 10 gallon is a good idea. Also, the company that made the aquarium sealent should have a website, with all sorts of information about it. That should give you more insight into what happened with Ares and Poseidon, and the sealent.

Have a good night, and enjoy your sorority!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

You too! Soon I will have pics up of all my bettas. I've kind of collected a lot... >.> But I think I can handle it pretty well, really. Gives me something to do when I'm not sewing. So far I have 9 betta girls(2 in other tanks), 8 otocinclus, and 10 betta boys. One of the otos died... The betta girl it was in a tank with killed it.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php

The sticky, IMO, isnt that great, its too general and doesnt cover much. I used this site.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Neat, thank you. ^_^


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> I've kind of collected a lot... >.>


It's really easy to do that, LOL! They're so beautiful... like flowers and butterflys. And they're a fun, interactive, smart fish. 

BTW, what do you sew?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Kind of everything. Primarily corsets, but there's nothing I can't figure out a way to make.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... Two of my female bettas make me wonder as to their identities. They're both much bolder colors than I'm used to seeing with females and highly aggressive. I haven't been able to spot egg spots on either of them and they absolutely refuse to tolerate eachother. The one is a -bright- red with metallic blue spots in her eyes and just about no other color whatsoever. The other is a vibrant purple with silver ( ) shapes on her gills and silver tips to her ventral fins. I haven't caught either of them making bubble nests yet, but still watching. 

Aside from that, there are two fish I have that in a couple months I'm thinking about breeding them. Once I've absorbed as much about breeding safely as I possibly can. The male is a double tailed half moon with a blue black body and butterfly fins that are blue black and cellophane. The female is Hera, the one with the pearl body and rainbow colored fins. Part of my reason for breeding is that I would love to raise happy, healthy, beautiful betta fish. It's not a "I wanna see what happens" kind of thing or anything like that. It's closer to the ideal that I would love to see them have their babies before their lives end, which seems stupidly likely with how the pet stores here have been treating them. Also very close to the idea of "I want grandbabies". But like I said, this isn't going to happen for a bit. That said, if anyone in the St. Louis area or near by would like to adopt a baby, let me know. If I end up with 40 some odd fry... I'd like to share their beauty with other betta lovers here. My house is going to end up being a fish sanctuary, lol. I'm going to continue learning until I feel like I'm actually ready and until I have the best set up I possibly can, then I'll begin the process and post pics.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

There are a lot of breeders on this board; you're going to learn a lot here. 

FYI: If you become a member of the International Betta Congress (some of the forum members here belong), I believe they send you a non-specific breedable pair as part of your membership (if you wish). Their web site: http://ibcbettas.org/pages/ You can learn a lot there, too.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I've checked it out, I have to wait til next month before I can register, lol. I really do want to breed Hera though.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

OH, btw... Bettas tend to 'color up' when they in a flare-y mood, which might explain the color difference with the two females that aren't getting along. 

It's hard to find that 'egg spot', especially when the fishies are tiny and moving non stop. If you put them in a clear container with just a little water, that will slow them down; then hold the container so you can look underneath them. A magnifier might help.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Mk. I'll try that with the purple, I've tried it with the red girl, but to no real avail. Also, 2 of my boys are in a sectioned off 10 gallon and aren't seeming to like it much... Too much space? Not enough decor? The boys in my 2 gallons are doing awesomely.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Were you able to 'dampen down' the filter flow on the 10 gallon?
Could the current be bothing them?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Since you are working with dividers, I thought you should see this:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=64514


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The purple "girl" has no egg spot, has larger fins than all the rest of the girls, and keeps doing that body wriggle thing that the males do when they're all courtshippy at the other female that's in containment,, waiting for introduction to the tank. I'm thinking that if I were to remove the oil burner that's in there, there may be a bubble nest inside it. She's very territorial over that particular thing... Makes me wonder more.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I've dampened down the filter flow, but it's still a little harshe. The section I'd meant for the 3rd betta to go into the tank is empty atm because I don't like it and neither do they.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

My dividers are currently plastic canvas. The sides ended up not being wide enough so I tightly packed some plastic mesh into the sides(the kind that tank marbles come in). It was tightly packed enough that hte betta boys didn't get caught in it... I cannot, however, say the same for my otocinclus. 2 of them got stuck in it and died... >.< 1 is... missing?! I can't find the 3rd one. Kind of sad about it, but not as much as I would be if my boys had gotten hurt. My gran and I are working on raiding the house for all mannar of things atm. Decorations, fish bowls of appropriate size, dividers, everything. She's excited that I have found something I can be excited and responsible about that isn't a giant snake or lizard, lol. Though I will be getting a bearded dragon in a few months(a friend wants me to have one after they hatch). She won't like that, but once she figures out that it won't be able to get out of it's cage(she doesn't have to know that I'll be petting and coddling it, lol) it should be fine.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

It's always fun when a family members shares your excitement for your betta hobby!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

She gets really cute about it. Worries about them and everything. ^_^ Unfortunately I woke up to an ugly surprise this morning... I learned that places that don't garauntee their bettas don't take care of them properly... The last one from that store died this morning. Grr! -ALL- of the fish I've gotten from there have died. The otocinclus(3 died for no apparent reason) and all four of the bettas I got from there. For no reason that I can figure out. Their water temps were perfect, their water was perfect... Just slowly, 1 by 1, they've died. >.<'


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Aw, I'm so sorry! 

Cross that pet shop off your list, but first.... 

I would go back and ask to speak to the manager; let them know you spent a lot of money at their store (because this is all they apparently care about). Bring your receipts. Ask him what he would be willing to do to keep you as a customer.

I'm thinking store credit... but if you get it, buy no live stock... buy food, filters, tank stuff you can use. 

Never buy another living thing from them. Ever. 

You also might report them to whatever state agency covers 'live' stock in your state, depending on what answers the store manager gives you. He may not have known things were that bad in the fish department, if you purchased them at a department store (sorry... my memory is a little fuzzy before my first cup of coffee).

Off to find a cup o' coffee...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so the rest of my fish are doing well. Battling the last remnants of fin rot in a couple of the boys(is it just me or do the females tend to be hardier about that kind of thing?) I finally got some bamboo! Apparently it's not really bamboo... But it's aquatic, safe for my tanks, amuses my bettas, and helps feed the otos so it is therefore awesome. I'm working on getting a lilly thing to grow, going to put it in the tank that I'm prepping for when I get ready for breeding. Got some nice 2 gallon containers for my boys(going to get tiny filters for them later to help with keeping the water clear) and plan on doing even -more- tomorrow! O.O' Also got some dried baby shrimps... I didn't realize that they'd be large, but decided to test them out with my betta girls and see. From what I've read, they're good for digestion and some other stuff... But the biggest perk of all is watching one of my little girls swim up to another one with this big shrimp in her mouth(hanging out, so CUTE!) and the two of them will tag team it. No fighting over them or anything like that, they're actually team working to nom the shrimpies. I freakin LOVE my sorority tank! So much cuteness happens there it's almost sickening, lol. Tomorrow I'm going to do a large water change on the sorority tank and mess with the boys a bunch. Probably going to throw Hades into his very own 10 gallon tank so he can get used to it in the coming months and such. Need to get more bamboo though... Need to find somewhere that sells it cheap. >.< 3 bucks for a 4 inch stalk annoys me. Going to be getting a couple more girls as well(seeing as some of the girls were male plakats) and when I do the water change, probably going to take each of my girls, one at a time, and get some good pics in their quarantine cups. When the last of the boys having issues is done with them, I'll be getting pics of them for you guys as well.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Boys are more 'finny' so have more fin-related issues. 
Keep the clean water coming; it helps those fins heal.

FYI: Not to ruin your shrimpy fun, but you need to know... bettas can choke on food that is too big for them, and it's nearly impossible to do anything to help them if it occurs. 

You might want to cut/crush the shrimps down into betta size bites.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love your enthusiasm, LOL! Your bettas are lucky to have you.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Eek! Good to know. I'm not sure the Heimlich maneuver would work well on bettas... I have been watching them pretty intently when I fed them to them, but now that I know that I'll be more careful. o.o' That kind of makes the double teaming rather brilliant on their part. I'm still curious about wether Artemis really is a girl or not though... She's just so tiny... And still has that fish/tadpole look to her. THe chubby front with the thinner back end thing. Idk. Also, the ammonia levels have stayed at a steady nothing for the past couple days, does that mean the tank's cycled or does it mean I do too many water changes? Lol


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Ammonia - keep checking it. It seems a little early for you tank to have cycled. It usually takes 4-6 weeks for the good bacteria to build up enough to 'do its thing'.

As for 'too many water changes', they are needed if there is any ammonia in your tank. Your tank is cycling with the fish in it, and ammonia is poison to them.
So keep up with the ammonia patrol! ;D


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Yay! ^_^ I'm really pleased with how the girl's tank has come along. Btw, I have pictures up in my albums of the new tank(without the bamboo, haven't gotten that far yet).


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Btw that red female that I bought that I decided was a male plakat? Yeah... Not so sure he's a plakat... His fins are filling out a LOT. The fin along the belly has gotten to about an inch and a half long, the tail is about a 1/4 of an inch longer than when I got him, and all of his fins have this thin clearish darkish edge to them that looks like maybe they're continueing to grow. There're rays growing out too, hence my thinking he's a bright red crowntail. I'll post pics of him once I've decided that he's finished re-growing his fins. Idk if fin rot got him or he was a fin nipper or if he was an adolescent or -what- but he seems perfectly healthy and beautiful and happy. Also, one of my girls is one of the most interesting girls I've ever seen. I got her because of her dark purple coloring, but found out today that when looked at from above, she's a beautiful emerald! O.O So from a straight on look, she's purple, from above or at an angle she's emerald green. -Interesting- day. Should I just start a fish blog somewhere or continue babbling on this thread?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I think this has become your blog, lol.... 

When you get a male or a female really young:

1. The sexing of the fish could initially be wrong and
2. The fish will change a lot from fry to maturity

Each fish is like a mystery surprise! And their colors change with their mood and condition. 

For so many reasons, they are among the most interesting fish you can own.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm really loving this experience, to be honest. Yes, there have been let downs, dissappointments, and a good deal of sadness for the betta boys who just didn't make it, but there's also been many learning experiences and a great deal of joy gotten from this. 

Random sidenote: Hades may end up not being bred... I noticed before that his swimming is a little odd, very jerky and almost spasm like... But lately he's taken to sitting at the top of his tank and sometimes floating on his side... He acts like a healthy fish when I feed him or walk up to him, but his swimming and such lead me to wonder if he has a swim bladder issue or something... I need to get him a plant as well... Still need to buy like 5 plants for my betta boys. Kind of worried about him, but he's not really acting sick, so idk what I can really do. Chaos is doing fine, though I hate his bowl(really ginormous punch bowl, holds 3 gallons, he loves it, but there's decor on the side so I can't see him very well), Hekatoncheires is the shyest fish I've ever seen, Hyperion is obsessed with the shiny pebbles in the bottom of his tank, and Helios is content. The girls are doing wonderfully, Tinker's prolly annoyed with me... (I have his quarantine cup floating in their tank so he stays warm and I can keep an eye for fin damage and illness and such, he doesn't stay continuously flared, just flares up when one of the girls comes up to poke his cup. Also floating it there because it's well heated and lighted and such, better than the other tanks at the moment). Picked up 2 girls to replace the boys that were removed from the girl's tank, Demeter and Persephone. Demeter's a very beautiful shade of purple with a white fringe around her fins(looks like a pattern, rather than disease), Persephone is an odd shade of blackish blue with silvery blue markings and fin streaks and leopard spots on her dorsal fin.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Keep an eye on Hades... Does he look bloated? Is this 'jerky' swimming new?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The jerky swimming was something I noticed right after I'd bought him, but had assumed it was his fin size(big boy!), yes he is a little bloated, I haven't fed him since yesterday morning(the bloating is new so I decided to not do that in case maybe I had over fed him), but it hasn't gone away at all. Maybe he's constipated? idk.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> The jerky swimming was something I noticed right after I'd bought him, but had assumed it was his fin size(big boy!), yes he is a little bloated, I haven't fed him since yesterday morning(the bloating is new so I decided to not do that in case maybe I had over fed him), but it hasn't gone away at all. Maybe he's constipated? idk.


Yes, actually he could be constipated... bettas are really good at getting that way, I've noticed... :roll:

Especially if they're young! I had a 3-4 month old betta girl (who I'd brought home a couple days before) who was floating TAIL UP in the tank, and not eating. I gave her epsom salt baths, and after one day she was back to normal.

This is what I did:

I made a solution of 1 tablespoon epsom salt to one gallon of water. Once all the salt was dissolved, I poured it into a container and floated the container in the main tank.

When the temperature in the container was equalized, I put in the betta for 20 minutes (used a timer). While she was having her epsom salt soak, I fed the other fish, so that she wouldn't be eating anything.

After her soak, I put her back in the tank. I repeated the same procedure at the night feeding.

The next day, she was back to normal. Another fish might need to go an extra day... in any event, this treatment will not hurt the bettas, and it is safer than going the 'pea' route (some people think feeding properly prepared peas helps with constipation - others say it damages their digestive system).

Play it safe - try the epsom soak instead.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I've actually been including aquarium salt with their water changes(mainly for the boys, not so much on the girls) due to some of the issues I've had(fin rot, mainly). Should I change his mixture from 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon to 1 tsp of epsom salt? Is there really a difference between the two? Also, he -has- pooped. Though last night I put in gravel and shiny gems on the bottom along with a new hidey hole, so I can't easily see if he has pooped today...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Actually there are differences between Aquarium salt and Epsom salt.

First of all Espom salt is not really a salt... its really magnesium sulfate!

There is actually a website devoted to Epsom Salt, put up by the Epsom Salt Council (who knew these things existed!). While this link describes the benefits of humans soaking in epsom salts, you can see why it would also be good for fish:

http://epsomsaltcouncil.org/about_better_health_through_soaking.htm

It is a constipation cure for fishes, along with an anti-inflamation aspect and anti-bacterial. 

Espom salt treatments (and other salt treatments) should last no more than 10 days. As far as I know, neither treatment should be used on cori cat, loaches and other fish who have skin, not scales.

Oldfishlady is the one who introduced me to espsom salt use, and knows the best concentrations of what salts to use and for how long, for a number of things. It also helped me cure a betta from popeye.

The thing about aquarium salt is that some people use it all the time, to 'ward off' dieases. But there are drawbacks to this:

1. The tank bacteria can build up an immunity to the salt, making it useless for treatments.

2. If added to the tank weekly without water changes, it can poision the fish and kill them.

3. Some species of fish cannot tolerate salt and will be chemically burned by it.

And that's all I have to say about salts!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh, except that I wouldn't change out 1 tsp of aquarium salt for 1 teaspoon of epsom salt. 

If you're going to treat Hades for the constipation/SBD symptoms, switch his water in his tank to conditioned and *unsalted*, and follow the directions I gave for the epsom salt baths.

Otherwise, he might OD on too much chemical treatment is his water.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Running off to switch out his water as I type this, lol. Ty! I really hope it is just constipation.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

There are other causes of SBD, but constipation is often the cause. If the epsom salt bath doesn't fix the problem and the SBD is not being caused by constipation, at least it will not have hurt Hades to try it.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Wow... I'm actually kind of speechless. A little while ago I introduced one of my new females to the tank. One of them is rather strong and got stuck in the current from the filter and couldn't seem to escape(it just kept pushing her down). I was about to grab my net when one of the bigger girls swam up beside her and literally shoved her until she was out of the way of the current(she immediately swam up for air). Idk if the bigger girl was actually intending to help her or was trying to be aggressive, but either way, that was kind of neat. Back to water changes, lol


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I meant to type "one of them is rather small", not strong, sry


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

You do have to wonder what is going through their little fishy heads...

I look at my "see through" betta girls (the ones with the pale skin you can see through) and look at their little bitty fishy brains, and wonder what they are capable of.

On YouTube there are videos of trained bettas and goldfish who do amazing tricks (food rewards makes them very goal oriented, lol). They learn and remember.

Can bettas interact with each other, beyond trying to kill each other? 

(I'm sure space aliens look down on us, and wonder the same thing, lol...)

I think their social behavior is almost like a wolf pack (for sororities), although that's just my theory. It makes sense, because as they age they become more agressive as they jostle for their position in the sorority...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I love watching my girls. I really do. They're just so amazing. As far as males go... I had one escape the divider into the other side(before I packed the sides with netting and accidentally killed my otocinclus) and he didn't do a thing. Neither of them did. Of course, as soon as I noticed, I removed him immediately and fixed the divider... But still kind of odd. I mean, the obviously noticed eachother, but neither was flared or acting growly. Idk. Bettas seem to be the most personality filled fish I've ever met.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... Hades started pineconing. And then died. I don't know what happened. I'm getting kind of tired of this, tbh... All of my girls are fine, I still have 5 betta males that are fine. But since I got my first betta, I've lost 8 fish. I think at some point soon, I'm going to just suck it up and buy from a breeder. It'll end up costing out the wazoo, but I'm tired of getting fish that die on me less than a week later. It's starting to get incredibly depressing.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

OMG... poor Hades! 

He went downhill so fast! I'm so sorry.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I am too... this really sucks... took me totally by surprise and he was such an awesome little boy... I keep crying about it.  I worked so hard to keep him happy and healthy and because some jerk off company couldn't provide proper care, I lost him. I wish I could have gotten some good pics of him flaring at my finger... heck, I wish I just knew what happened. When I saw his scales start sticking out, I knew i'd lost... I wanna kick his breeder in the shins, man. I hate that humans are so made of fail that they do this. But it's been decided. I'm going to get a breedable pair from a reputable breeder and I'm going to have my own babies that will never know the horrible conditions that are found in pet stores. Hera will be a mommy and someday I'll have a sorority tank filled with her and her daughters. Her sons will have all the room they could want to flare and play in.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

There are some great breeders on this forum, some are 'growing out' fry now. I know you'll find some quality betta babies that were well care for here.

Don't forget the IBC. When you become a member, you become eligable for a free breeding pair (at least, that was the deal last week when I last checked the sight).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Did all the bettas (that passed on) come from the same store?

I'm so sad your beginning betta experiances have been so difficult. 

Starting off, you've seen just about every betta problem possible. They weren't your fault. You did everything you could. And you've learned a lot in a short amount of time... which will benefit any betta you have in the future.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Awwww - I'm sorry about Hades!!! 

If you want to purchase from a breeder/s, here is where I get almost all my fish:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&M1247m

And:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&84elmo2001

They are a husband & wife team, have reasonable prices & shipping with a 72 hour heat pack included at no extra charge. I have never had a D.O.A. from them (though that COULD happen at some point) and have always received healthy fish from them. 

Not only have I purchased bettas from them, but have also gotten angel fish from them in the past. Same deal - VERY happy with the fish.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> There are some great breeders on this forum, some are 'growing out' fry now. I know you'll find some quality betta babies that were well care for here.
> 
> Don't forget the IBC. When you become a member, you become eligable for a free breeding pair (at least, that was the deal last week when I last checked the sight).
> 
> ...


Ares was a petco fish, as was Hades, the four that were almost named ame from a crappy place in st. charles, and apollo was a petsmart betta. All of them were kind of rescues except for Hades... I really thought he was healthy when I got him. The girl at petco tested my water and said the ammonia was high... All of my tests disagree! But... I don't know what to do... Feeling vaguely pathetic atm.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Awwww - I'm sorry about Hades!!!
> 
> If you want to purchase from a breeder/s, here is where I get almost all my fish:
> 
> ...


Thank you, I'll try them out when I'm ready to try again. I want to wait and see if my current males will survive or not first.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

*Hug!*

Hang in there! Freshen up your tank water and when you can, get your own test kit. 

Did the Petco lady test your tank water or your tap water?

Sorry so short, but off to work (yay!). I'll pop in later.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

She tested the tank water. I actually have tests. A liquid test for ammonia and a strip test kit for ph, water hardness, nitrites, nitrates, and something else. They both seem pretty accurate to me and both the ammonia test and the ammonia alerts in the tanks tell me her ammonia test was wrong... idk. At some point I wanna get the master test kit, just have to wait for monies.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Wow quite an experience u had there since the beginning of ur thread, sorry for all ur losses..but ur amazing to have rescued all those Betta's!
Don't give up!!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes, she is


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you, and I won't give up. A friend of mine keeps teasing me about how I should start up my very own fish store. I keep wondering what licesnses I'd need for a Betta hospital, lmao. Though that would be kind of awesome...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

More cheerful update: My sorority tank is thriving still, debating about replanting the bamboo though... It has black fuzzy stuff on it that the pet store attendant said was algae, but I'm kind of paranoid. Artemis is growing still, she's almost half the size of the rest of the girls, lol, and is developing into quite the adorable little crowntail. A couple of the girls still have stress stripes, I'm thinking about putting them into their own containers for a bit until they go away. Maybe they just don't mesh with the tank? Who knows. The new girls are doing well, Demeter is continuously deepening in color(solid purple with a white butterfly pattern to her fins). A couple of the girls I'm going to be inspecting for egg spots... They were also petco girls(like the other two that were really boys) and one of them seems a little too agressive over the lobster thing in the tank(which could easily hide a bubble nest, so.... Curious!) Hyperion was put into a 10 gallon by himself... Maybe not the best idea. The little guy is SO shy! He swims around and such, sure, but seems to feel the world's out to get him. Maybe I should put him back in his original tank... He seemed to feel more secure there. Later today I'll be doing a 100% water change on the empty tank I've been neglecting and sanitize the crap out of it. Then Hekatoncheires, Chaos, and Helios will be going there(with the hidey holes from their current tanks).Still waiting for the lilly bulb to do something... I really want to get the boys into larger tanks and such. They seem so incredibly bored right now. :/ Totally need to get more driftwood though. That's proven awesome for both the otocinclus -and- my betta girls. They love to play in it. Tinker(The red male crowntail that was sold to me as a female veiltail) is still doing well, his fins are still growing, and he's as spunky as ever. ^_^ I have indian almond leaves and cultures of microworms and vinegar eels on their way in the mail and plan to make cultures of them until I've gotten comfy with how they work. THen I'll just have cultures going all the itme until I've decided I'm ready to breed. Still need to get brine shrimp eggs, but not as worried about those. Can order those at any time, can also prolly find them at a store somewhere around here, and they aren't very complicated.

I'm thinking that today during water change I'm going to put all the girls into bowls, check for egg spots, and if there's a male(which I'm pretty sure which one would be) I'm going to check inside the lobster for a bubble nest. There's one in particular that's guarding the lobster pretty heavily... So I gotta wonder, lol.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OMG So I came up with this idea and I already made a thread for it, but I figured I'd throw it here too for those who keep tabs on what is now my betta blog, lol. 

So, I was thinking last night about bettas and when they're sick how they need more fresh water and with fry needing regular water changes and came up with an idea. It's not a laziness thing, but yesterday I twisted my ankle and doing water changes right now is super painful. So... The idea!

What if you took 4 pieces of airline tubing and 2 4 gallon containers and some of those control valve things, took 2 pieces of tubing and attatched them together with the valves, do the same with the other 2 pieces. Fill one of the 4 gallon containers and set it up somewhere higher than the betta tank, set the empty one somewhere below the betta tank(empty). Start a siphon going with one of the tubing set ups from the big container to the tank with it just dripping(make sure the 4 gallon is medicated and such) and set up the other tubing siphoning from the tank into the empty container at just a dribble. Constant water change without massive current to stress the betta, for fry, you could put a sponge or a netting over the end of the tubing siphoning from their tank so they don't go exploring. 

Has anyone tried this kind of set up? Can anyone think of pros or cons for it? What do you guys think of this idea for short term water changing? I know that with my ankle being all messed up, it would be awesome for me. This could also probably be used for multiple betta tanks, the only thing is that you'd have to keep the tubing just below water level so that if the top tank empties out, you don't siphon more than an inch of water from the betta tank.

What do you guys think?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I learned something today... My girls seem to have seperation anxiety, lol. I tried to remove Mnemosyne from the tank so I could get some good pics of her coloration. She instantly started freaking out and her color ran away and was replaced by stress lines. The other girls swarmed the spot I'd taken her from and were very much NOT PLEASED. Put her back in the tank and they all calmed down and the stress lines were gone... What have I gotten myself into?!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I had taken Hera out for photos the other day and when I floated her cup in the top of the tank(acclimating temp, just to be safe) ALL the girls swarmed the cup and did their little wriggles and swam in circles around her. Idk what's going on, but they seemed so freakin happy that I put her back it wasn't even funny.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... I've decided that I will not buy anything else, ever, at all from petco, petsmart, or walmart. EVER. Hera passed away today... I don't know what happened... I wanna cry... She was my little girl... I hate this... So I've made the decision that I will only ever buy from a breeder for fish and from reputable places that don't suck and deserve my business for supplies. In April I hope to get some beautiful crowntails and halfmoons for the line I want to begin. I hope Petco gets what it deserves, as well as all those other places that sell bettas as decorations.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

Poor Hera! Poor you! 

Did Hera contact any of the equipment the other sick fish used, at any point?

Did she have any outward symptoms prior to her death?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before you bring any more fish home, it would be good (if posasible) to pin down anything that could be causing fish death.

It may be a good idea to have your water source tested for anything unusual - and I don't mean a Petco test, but a real water test to see exactly what chemicals and minerals are in the water that you drink, and the fish live in.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Hera was living in the sorority tank... None of the other females look stressed or sick, she didn't either though... I mean, she looked a little bloated, but I had taken her out and put her in quarantine to check and see if maybe she was constipated or something. All of my quarantine cups have been cleaned and sanitized... I just don't know... I -want- to blame petco and their crappy ways... But with 2 females having died and most of the males I had gotten dying... I can't help but wonder... I'm doing everything right... Using filters, regular water changes, using a conditioner that nixes chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia and another one that takes care of nitrites, nitrates, and heavy metals... The ph tests fine, the ammonia tests fine, nitrates and nitrites test fine, the water's a -little- hard, but not very and I have the conditioner for that... Either there's something toxic in our water(which according to the water company there isn't(I harrassed them when I found out that our water tested at 5ppm on ammonia levels)) or I just have some of the absolute rottenest luck ever. At this point I have plenty of hope for my girls(they look fine and are acting fine) but only a little hope for even 2 of my boys. Chaos just isn't acting very betta like, Hekatoncheires keeps being all lethargic(though he does flare and look pretty, no bubble nesting though), Tinker seems healthy, but hides in his cup a lot(I took out the shiny gravels from his tank until I have a tank cycled and ready for a couple betta boys, he's been mad at me ever since), and Hyperion seems scared of everything and kind of just meh about the world(his coloring gives me heart attacks, I swear. He's a cellophane so I have to actually look for him in his tank). I just don't know what more I can do... I'm thinking about getting guppies from a breeder here and seeing out that goes... I wanted to get them anyway to see if I really -can- handle taking care of baby fry, but I'm thinking they'd be good at telling me if there's something I'm doing wrong as well. I don't know though... Seems kind of cruel to use them that way, ya know? I just don't know what to do at this point other than just wait things out and see what happens. Hera seemed so healthy... Then just *poof* gone...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Is it possible the other girls could have harrassed her to death? She's so pale... I've never seen stress lines on her, even when I got her from the pet store. I don't know that she would even show them... Also, I noticed today that one of the girls has ich... I cannot even begin to fathom how on earth that happened! It just doesn't make sense! I do regular water changes(any time the ammonia levels spike or the nitrite/nitrate levels spike, and twice a week besides(one 50%, one 75%)) I keep the water at a steady 78, though yesterday it could have gotten to 80(my room was at 82 degrees yesterday). The water is treated with amquel plus and this other thing that takes care of heavy metals(the two combined take care of nitrites, nitrates, chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, and ammonia). It's filtered... Had a couple lucky bamboo in it but I took those out yesterday when I was trying to catch Hera to quarantine... The otocinclus are totally fine... Only a couple girls have ich... The rest are fine(I'm treating all occupants of the tank anyway)... Ammonia levels have been at zero for the past 3 days, same with nitrites and nitrates... I always warm up the change water and treat it before I put it in the tank... I haven't been able to clean the gravel very well(getting a make shift gravel vac today, if I have anything to say about it)... I just don't know what it is I've done wrong.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

"The ph tests fine, the ammonia tests fine, nitrates and nitrites test fine, the water's a -little- hard, but not very and I have the conditioner for that..."

Are you using PH Down or some such chemical to alter the ph?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope. Apparently my tap water just doesn't suck at ph. :/ I kind of wish it did, then I could have something to focus on... I'm getting indian almond leaves near the end of the month for them... I'm just hoping they'll last that long.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I hate not having an obvious something I can blame... I mean... The death toll has been so high I can't just blame it on the petstore. I -have- to be doing something wrong, right? Granted, 6 of the males that died I kind of expected... They were all gotten from terrible terrible situations(I swear, I wanna punt everyone that says "they live in puddles in the wild". GRRR) but 3 of them were so totally unexpected... I don't expect Hyperion or Chaos to make it either, tbh... But idk what to do... They're both doing the listless thing... I thought Hyperion was bubble nesting, but it turned out to just be bubbles that happened when he took a breath(they came out of his gills). Now he's floating on his side and not moving and I don't wanna go check. I just don't. Chaos had serious fin rot when I got him and just hasn't seemed to pick up... Tinker should live... He seems healthy enough... Hekatoncheires is swimming around and attacking his reflection. I have high hopes for Hekatoncheires. The remaining 7 girls are doing fine and such... one has stress stripes... But that could be because I decided to begin her treatment for the ich that I noticed. The others just don't seem to care and are being cheerful.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

Some beginner difficulties are to be expected... but this is unnerving.

The listlessness, the stress stripes and the ick are all pointing to something that is "wearing" on all the fish... but what, I have no clue. The only common threads that seem to run through this whole scenerio is the water... and possibly the food.

I'm going to ask OFL (our super moderator and all around amazing fish person) to review the last four pages of material you've posted (19, 20, 21 and soon to be 22). 

I'm hoping she'll find something that will help prevent further fish loss. It may take her a bit to read through... PM her if you don't hear from her by tomorrow.

Hang in there, kiddo!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you, and I hope so too. This is worrying me a lot... I mean, sure, they're pet store bettas and I didn't necesarily pick out the healthiest ones... But still. It has to be something... >.<


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh! and foods: Tetra flakes, blood worms by the same brand, top fin color enhancing betta bits(pellets), and omega one freeze dried brine shrimp. I never feed all of these things at once, pellets for them one day(there were a couple who wouldn't touch the pellets but nommed flakes, but they're gone now). then the freeze dried brine shrimp, then pellets the next day, then bloodworms the day after, then pellets the next day, then shrimp after. I rarely bother with the flakes as they're obnoxious in a lot of ways. I soften up the pellets and the blood worms and the shrimp in conditioned water(fresh or tank) before I feed them because I've been told it's bad if you don't. I'm trying to make sure they get the most balanced diet I can give them. The girls seem to have done well with it except for the two that've died. Perhaps one of these foods is an issue for them?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

I'm thinking it might be food or water as well.

Isolate the fish w/ick in seperate containers and start treament. Have these fish had ick before (that you know of)? 

I'd also fast for 24 hours, then switch everyone to only the top fin color enhancing betta bits(pellets). Check to make sure all the fish foods are all in date.

BTW... Some fish will have bloating problems with flakes, especially younger fish. Some fish may eat too much of any food and get bloated. Some fish will only eat the food they like best, and become nutritionally deficient. And whether or not food is in date, it still could be spoilt or tainted.

Feeding one food will hopefully help. Other foods can be slowly re-introduced, one at a time, over time. Any bad reactions, toss the offending food.

I just sent OFL a PM. It will take her a bit to go through everything. Whatever she reccomends, I'd go with it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

To get me caught up so I don't have to go back and read everything....

If all the fish are having the same problem...just list one and space between the answers...I am old.... and have trouble reading large/long text without spaces...lol.....

How many fish involved, tank size, how much and how often are the water changes, water temp, additives used, filtration, live plants, appetite, symptoms, what treatment have you tried and any medications, how did you acclimate them when you got them and how soon did they start to decline after you placed them in your source water..

Water pram numbers-and type of testing product used for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH...on both the tanks involved and source water...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OFL: 

"How many fish are involved" I currently have 7 females and 3 males. I had originally gotten 8 females, 2 turned out to be males, replaced those two(took all of the girls out and reintroduced them when I did). I have had a total of 12 males. 1 male is living at a friend's house and thriving(long story), 3 males are still alive. 

Tank sizes: for the boys: two gallons each(they'll move into a 3 way divided 10 gallon after I'm certain they're fine. They're acting fine... but I don't trust it anymore). The girls are living in a sorority 10 gallon with no other fish. 

Water changes: for the 2 gallon containers I alternate. 50% one day, 100% the next. I'm paranoid about getting lax about it... am I doing too much? For the girls: 50% on Monday, 75% on Friday.

Water temp is 78 across the board. I only use a heater in the sorority as it's by the window, but I keep my room fairly warm and check water temps in all the tanks regularly as well as making sure my change water is the same temp.

Additives used: I -was- using stress coat, amquel plus, and aquasafe with a small amount of pimafix with the boys(due to the condition of their fins when I got them). When I first got the boys I followed your directions exactly on how to treat fin rot, it worked beautifully, the pimafix is being used 1 drop per 2 gallons as more of a preventative while their fins are healing. I stopped using stress coat after a bit and am just using the amquel plus atm(it covers everything the others do except for hard metals).

Filtration: I'm using whisper filter for the sorority(baffled). It's the one for 10 to 15 I believe(I know it covers 10, just can't remember the name and I don't keep boxes)

Live plants: I only have 1 lucky bamboo currently in 1 of the male's tanks(set up so the leaves are above the water so it doesn't rot). I had 3 but 2 of them were looking bad so I put them in a container by themselves.

Appetite: they all eat well, like little fishy pigs. Honestly, all of the fish I have left seem happy, active, and healthy. I'm still suspicious of the boys, but the veiltail is the only one I currently have that I'm thinking might not make it, but he seems to be doing better.

What treatment: when I first got my boys, they were rescues. All of them(except 1) had fin rot. I used 1 tsp of epsom salt per gallon of water with green tea bags having been soaked in the water for about 5-10 minutes. I kept them in their quarantine cups during this. The females have all been fine exceppt for 1 which had ich when I got her and I treated her the same way(the ich cleared up super fast).

"How did you acclimate them when you got them" I would very slowly take out a small amount of their cup water and replace it with fresh. I'd do this once about every 15 minutes until their cup water looked crystal clear. 10 hrs later I would do a 100% water change. After that, it was a water change every 12 hours until they were done with quarantine, then I would put them in their temporary 2 gallon tanks.

"How soon did they start to decline adter you placed them in your source water"
It varies. Poseidon and ares lived for 2 weeks, happy bubble blowing little dudes, in their quarantine cups while I was setting up a divided tank for them. The tank was 2 weeks into a seeded cycle(I tested the water daily and before I put them in). After I put them in the tank they died overnight. 4 males died the day after I got them from their store(all of them were in -terrible- condition, one had body rot that I hadn't seen because of his coloring). 1 died about a week after I got him home(he had always been a spazzy swimmer, but 2 days before he died he started swimming really spaztically, almost seizure like, and then started being unable to swim normally, was swimming on his side). 1 died about 4 days after I got him, another with bad fin rot. Neither female showned signs of stress or acted sickly, but with their coloring idk that I would have seen stress lines(they were pearl colored). One of those was just a couple days after I got her, the other was 14 days after i'd gotten her.

Water parameters: 

Before I put in water conditioner: 5ppm on ammonia, 7.0 on ph
After I condition the water: 0ppm ammonia, 7.0 ph, no nitrates or nitrites. Currently the sorority is testing a regular 0 on ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Ammonia liquid test by tetra
Unfortunately until next month I have to use api 5 in 1 aquarium test strips.

HereFishyFishyFishy: one of the fish has had ich before, same one that got it this time, actually. I'm still confused as to how she got it... >.<

Btw sorry I didn't answer immediately, I was babysitting most of yesterday.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OFL: 

"How many fish are involved" I currently have 7 females and 3 males. I had originally gotten 8 females, 2 turned out to be males, replaced those two(took all of the girls out and reintroduced them when I did). I have had a total of 12 males. 1 male is living at a friend's house and thriving(long story), 3 males are still alive. 

Tank sizes: for the boys: two gallons each(they'll move into a 3 way divided 10 gallon after I'm certain they're fine. They're acting fine... but I don't trust it anymore). The girls are living in a sorority 10 gallon with no other fish. 

Water changes: for the 2 gallon containers I alternate. 50% one day, 100% the next. I'm paranoid about getting lax about it... am I doing too much? For the girls: 50% on Monday, 75% on Friday.

Water temp is 78 across the board. I only use a heater in the sorority as it's by the window, but I keep my room fairly warm and check water temps in all the tanks regularly as well as making sure my change water is the same temp.

Additives used: I -was- using stress coat, amquel plus, and aquasafe with a small amount of pimafix with the boys(due to the condition of their fins when I got them). When I first got the boys I followed your directions exactly on how to treat fin rot, it worked beautifully, the pimafix is being used 1 drop per 2 gallons as more of a preventative while their fins are healing. I stopped using stress coat after a bit and am just using the amquel plus atm(it covers everything the others do except for hard metals).

Filtration: I'm using whisper filter for the sorority(baffled). It's the one for 10 to 15 I believe(I know it covers 10, just can't remember the name and I don't keep boxes)

Live plants: I only have 1 lucky bamboo currently in 1 of the male's tanks(set up so the leaves are above the water so it doesn't rot). I had 3 but 2 of them were looking bad so I put them in a container by themselves.

Appetite: they all eat well, like little fishy pigs. Honestly, all of the fish I have left seem happy, active, and healthy. I'm still suspicious of the boys, but the veiltail is the only one I currently have that I'm thinking might not make it, but he seems to be doing better.

What treatment: when I first got my boys, they were rescues. All of them(except 1) had fin rot. I used 1 tsp of epsom salt per gallon of water with green tea bags having been soaked in the water for about 5-10 minutes. I kept them in their quarantine cups during this. The females have all been fine exceppt for 1 which had ich when I got her and I treated her the same way(the ich cleared up super fast).

"How did you acclimate them when you got them" I would very slowly take out a small amount of their cup water and replace it with fresh. I'd do this once about every 15 minutes until their cup water looked crystal clear. 10 hrs later I would do a 100% water change. After that, it was a water change every 12 hours until they were done with quarantine, then I would put them in their temporary 2 gallon tanks.

"How soon did they start to decline adter you placed them in your source water"
It varies. Poseidon and ares lived for 2 weeks, happy bubble blowing little dudes, in their quarantine cups while I was setting up a divided tank for them. The tank was 2 weeks into a seeded cycle(I tested the water daily and before I put them in). After I put them in the tank they died overnight. 4 males died the day after I got them from their store(all of them were in -terrible- condition, one had body rot that I hadn't seen because of his coloring). 1 died about a week after I got him home(he had always been a spazzy swimmer, but 2 days before he died he started swimming really spaztically, almost seizure like, and then started being unable to swim normally, was swimming on his side). 1 died about 4 days after I got him, another with bad fin rot. Neither female showned signs of stress or acted sickly, but with their coloring idk that I would have seen stress lines(they were pearl colored). One of those was just a couple days after I got her, the other was 14 days after i'd gotten her.

Water parameters: 

Before I put in water conditioner: 5ppm on ammonia, 7.0 on ph
After I condition the water: 0ppm ammonia, 7.0 ph, no nitrates or nitrites. Currently the sorority is testing a regular 0 on ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Ammonia liquid test by tetra
Unfortunately until next month I have to use api 5 in 1 aquarium test strips.

HereFishyFishyFishy: one of the fish has had ich before, same one that got it this time, actually. I'm still confused as to how she got it... >.<

Btw sorry I didn't answer immediately, I was babysitting most of yesterday.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Good job, Slipstich!

So, one girl in the sorority had ick, was 'cured', and then it came back. Now, another girl in the sorority has ick as well.

When your treated the 1st girl for ick, did you treat the whole tank? Or did you treat her in quarentine? What did you treat her with?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I am sure you have already figured this out.....but it sounds like compromised immune response from poor conditions that you got them from (pet shop)....sometimes once they hit that stage not a lot you can do.......never hurts to try......clean water, good nutrition and dim lit quiet place for low stress so that they can recover is about all you can do most times...less is best is some case......too much change too fast that shocks the already compromised system can sometimes send them over the edge......

With sudden deaths in new systems can sometimes be due to pH shock....


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Herefishyfishyfishy: this time around I treated the entire sorority. Including the tank itself just to be sure. Also, it was the same girl both times with ich, none of the other girls have come down with it yet. 

Ofl: honestly, that rarely occurs to me... one of my friends was telling me yesterday that that was probably part of my issue, but I hadn't thought of it on my own.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also when she had ich the first time I only treated her as she hadn't had contact with any other fish or fish supplies yet(she had ich when I bought her and I didn't notice till I got her home)


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

One thing I noticed reading your posts is that you use a lot of different conditioners. If it were me, I would just use Prime as it treats the water for EVERYTHING - including heavy metals. Also, it is very economical using just 2 drops per gallon. 

I also see that a lot of your fish are/were rescues and, as OFL said, sometimes it's hard (if not impossible) to bring them back, sadly.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Can I get prime at somewhere that isn't Petco? I'm kind of hardcore not going there for anything ever atm, lol


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> Can I get prime at somewhere that isn't Petco? I'm kind of hardcore not going there for anything ever atm, lol


Well, I get it off Ebay, but I don't know if you intenet shop or not. :-?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Sometimes. Whatever I do, I have to wait for my payment for a sewing commission to come in. So monday or tuesday at best.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, I think craigslist is trying to kill me. Found an ad for a free 70 gallon tank. >.<


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, when I got there I didn't see the tank... It was super dark and my friend wasn't feeling line being anything other than rushy>.< Anywho, I splurged. A lot. I got 2 5 gallon full set up tanks(filter, light, lid, tank), 2 5-15 gal. heaters, a bunch of decor and some ghost shrimp. I wanted to see if the baby ghost shrimp would be small enough for the bettas to nom and use them as a special treat once in a while. My crowntails, Tinker and Hekatoncheires, are in one 5 gallon divided(going to get a 3rd 5 gallon next month for Tinker by himself). Chaos is in his very own 5 gallon with soft fake plants and some obnoxiously colored cave things. Each tank has been seeded(I'm sticking to the fish in cycling like I did with the girls since that seemed to go really well and I have the time to monitor) with a sponge from another tank, a little bit of the water(just in case), and a couple of the decorations from the girls tank. I finally got a gravel vacuum! O.O I'm so freaking excited it's not even funny. Chaos seems to -love- his new surroundings, he also seems to absolutely adore the filter. I caught him trying desperately to get into the filter bit but the current was too strong, lol. Tinker is all "Oh my god... So much space... What am I supposed to do! O.O'" and Hekatonchieres gave me the "that's what I thought. Better be givin me back my super swimmin space." look. So far all seems well, none of my bettas are showing signs of illness. Really wish I could have gotten that tank though... I -have- to get one soon. No choice. I was given a ton of guppies by someone(I didn't mind getting a couple... A COUPLE guppies sounded nice) and got home to find out I had a good 30 guppy and swordtail fry, 10 adults(4 females, 6 males, females are all preggo!), 5 mollies, a pleco, an adult female swordtail, and a snail. I couldn't see into the container that she'd filled so I had no idea till I got home and there was no way she was taking em back. So now I'm doing daily water changes on my two ten gallon tanks and wondering what the hell I'm going to do with a bajillion fish. I think the universe is trying to tell me something but it's translator FAILS! O.O' But whether I have to build it or what, I'm going to make sure I have a 100 gallon tank at LEAST. Guppies are totally the freakin rabbits of the fish world.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, if you know anything about any of those fish that is different from betta fish, please feel free to give me said info. I've only had a chance to study bettas so I know jack about guppies, mollies, swordtails(which I keep accidentally calling sword fish), or plecos. I know what plecos eat and about how big they get, everything else be a mystery. How do I even tell genders on everything but the guppies? I know how to tell with guppies, but I have 2 black mollies, a dalmation molly, a silvery white molly, and a gold colored molly. I know how to tell with swordtails... But what about plecos? I'm thinking about naming the pleco "Bunny".


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

LOL... you have been busy!!! 

One thought on treating the sorority for ick... make sure you take out the 'mechanical' filter cartridge (leave the biofilter in). When the treatment is through, put in a new mechanical filter cartridge. Your tank is going to cycle again (that's the drawback of treating a whole tank).

Guppies and swordfish are live bearers... like rabbits (sort of). Guppy females will give birth every 30 DAYS, and remain fertile for a number of months after contact with the males. Female guppies are bigger and are plainer looking; Males are smaller and are fancier all over, especially the tails.

With so many incomming fish, it would be wise to sex and seperate the guppies and swordtails, and have a separate tank for fry. You may want to start looking now for local wholesale buyers for the these fry, so you won't be scrambling to find homes for them all.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe Mollies have different water requirements than guppies and swordtails...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I think mollies do too, but I don't know. I haven't had a chance to do research on any of the new fish with all the crazy that's been going on(I've been scrambling hardcore). I seperated the female guppies and plan on testing them out in the sorority tank(See how the girls respond and if all is shiny, that's how it'll go). All the adult females are pregnant, but I'm only letting one spawn happen. The coloring for that spawn should be pretty epic if I'm right and I plan on either getting a 100 gallon tank or freaking BUILDING one if need be so I will have room for the fry after their grow out stage. I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with the swordtails... From what I've read, they have a tendency to be nippy and I only really find the males to be interesting(Not a huge fan of orange, really). If I do the 100 gallon tank, I'm probably going to put my sorority into it and let the boys each have a 10 gallon tank or something. I don't know yet. I'm kind of in the shock phase, lol. By the way, the fish count right now is ridiculous. I finally got some time to read over what I've written here and to stare at my fish tank and count numbers and such and realized that I'd actually forgotten a fish or two and that my count was off. I've been so freakin tired this weekend(Had to reset my sleep schedule, which involves me staying awake for 24 hrs, then sleeping for about 10) and then the craziness yesterday with trying to find a ride for that tank... So. Total fish count and then a betta fish update! Lol. 

4 adult female guppies
6 adult male guppies
about 30ish fry(they're TINY and move FAST)
5 mollies(2 black, 1 dalmation, 1 silver, 1 golden one(I thought the silver and gold ones were a different fish(goldfish) and was going to try to rehome them if I could, but mollies need a group of 5+ to feel comfortable, so after finding out the 2 odd colors were mollies I've decided to allow them their school)
1 two and a half inch pleco(so cute... Need to get a pic of him!)
7 female betta girls
3 otocinclus
3 male bettas
1 dragon fish(don't ask how I didn't mention that one, I don't know, it's about the coolest freaking thing I've ever seen aside from a betta)
1 adult swordtail(I keep trying to call them swordfish >.<)
and about 20 ghost shrimp that I got yesterday in the hope of helping feed the dragon fish and to help clean up whatever in the tank doesn't get cleaned up by the pleco and otos(otos were moved from the sorority during treatment because I don't know if they -can- be treated like the betta girls).

Hekatoncheires is sharing a 5 gallon with Tinker until I can get Tinker his own 5 gallon, Chaos has a 5 gallon to himself(I'm really starting to think that the minimum for a betta should be a 5 gallon tank). Tinker is seeming a little afraid of so much open space(he's never had a home bigger than a 1 gallon tank), Hekatoncheires is being all macho(guess I named him right, lol) and Chaos LOVES the current from his filter. He went from being a droopy, sad, blah betta boy that never flared to being this amazing little red and green happy boy with a perky tail that likes to flare at everything and try to swim into his filter. The amount he's perked up just by having a few plants and a couple shiny things is nothing short of astonishing!

I currently have 3 ten gallon tanks that I'm trying to figure out what should go where until I can get an appropriately sized tank(I'm seriously thinking a 100 gallon is the only way to go at this point with the dragon fish and the pleco alone). My chores for the day are ridiculous until I can get them properly housed. Today I need to do a good sized water change on the sorority tank(all signs of ich have cleared up and stayed clear since friday ish) and then I need to do a 50% on the overstocked tank, make sure the water parameters for the boys is okay and do a water change for them if it isn't, clean out, sanitize, scrub, and scrape the living crap out of the 10 gallon that I've been ignoring since Poseidon and Ares died(It depresses me... And I haven't really had time/energy to mess with it with everything else I've been doing) Should I throw the gravel and decor away or will scouring it with boiling hot water suffice? Then I have to figure out what is going where. Should I put the guppies and swordtail female into the empty 10 gallon? Should I do guppies and pleco? I have 2 10 gallons that can be rearranged at will and such... What do you think would be best to help make the fish more comfortable? The sorority should stay as it is for now I think... Just have to figure out the rest until I get their real home. I don't think I'm EVER going to respond to a cl ad about rehoming fish again... This was both awesome and unplesant... I love that I have these beautiful fish, but hate the circumstances they've come in. If there's a lesson to be learned from this, I really wanna know what it is. I started off with 1 little betta fish. How that exploded is beyond me. o.o'


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh. And I have a black mystery snail. I kinda like it... And if I can't scavange an appropriately sized tank by next monday, I'm going to BUILD it. I will do the evil mathematics and make it freakin happen. I'm determined that my fish will one and all be happy, healthy, and thriving, even if they -were- unexpected roommates. Lol


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

One thing that MAY help is if you put the female guppies in with your female bettas, the betta girls SHOULD help with the guppy "population control".


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

My only worry is if it's too soon to cease treatment on the female bettas. One(literally just one) came down with ich and I started treatment of the entire tank to deal with it. The ich has been cleared up for a couple days, but I've no idea if it's too soon to do a 100% water change and put in the guppies or not. Plus, if I do, that tank will be over stocked too and the last thing I really wanna do is stress out my girls. Though I figure that putting them in there will end up with all the girls being very much well fed in about a month's time, lol. I could also scoop some of them out when that happens and share them with the boys, but IDK that the boys would be able to catch them, they move pretty quick.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Can't help ya with the ick question - sorry. 

You wouldn't have to put ALL the female guppies in at the same time. Maybe just a couple to see how your "divas" react and to allow the extra bio-load to stabilize. A couple weeks, maybe? Then add a couple more if all goes well with the first two.

Oh, and, yeah, as long as the guppy fry is less than a week old, your males WILL be able to catch them.  

I have guppies and I will tell you - it's a TON easier to catch the fry with a cup or glass than it is a net. They come to the surface thinking they are getting fed & you can just "suck" them into the glass. 

Hope that helps!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Sounds like a good plan ^_^ Right now I'm so freakin excited about how my boys are doing it isn't even funny. I seriously think Chaos was just bored. I'm kind of confused by his fins though... When he flares up, he looks like he -should- have a spade shaped tail, but the end of it just ends. Totally straight line. Almost like someone literally cut off the end of his fin, it's such a clean edge.  There's no signs of fin rot or anything and he's acting super happy in his shiny new 5 gallon with the super soft plastic plants(I made absolutely certain they were soft enough not to hurt him) and his neon colored cave things. His color has brightened up so much I'm amazed... He's a super bright red with very bright metallic green in his fins that are almost like a butterfly patter. Hekatoncheires is picked up too. His coloring has improved just about as drastically and it's really obvious that he has a butterfly pattern to his fins. Tinker is kind of intimidated by the space, I think. He hides in his decor, darts out to explore for a minute, then goes back to hiding and staring. I gave each boy a ping pong ball and put 3 in the sorority tank. I'm not sure how any of them feel about that yet though, lol


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstich,

I wouldn't rush the ick treatment. Let your sorority heal and really de-stress before adding anything new.

I do think the female guppies would be fine in the sorority. Since guppies and bettas are both top feeders, there might be a bit of fin nipping at first. The guppies will get the worst of it (although one of my guppies bit one of my betta girls on the face when I first introduced them)! No harm done. 

Bettas are carnivores and guppies eat anything, so unwanted fry shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you want to save any and raise them however, they'll need a tank of their own. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm glad your bettas are coloring up and settling in.  That's what you've been waiting for!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm really excited for my boys. Frustrated with the rest of the universe, but excited for them.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Update: it's a temporary solution, but I got a 30 gallon clear tote from walmart for the pleco and dragonfish to grow out in, along with a decent filter too. This should buy me at least a little time to save up for a decent tank and make the move downstairs.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Good for you! 

Those totes are really handy.... I've got a couple around... emergeny tanks if I need 'em...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The tank is still over stocked... But they at least have swimming space. I figure replacing a couple gallons a day should keep it under control. I need more of these, lol, way useful.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, I don't know WHAT I did, but apparently I fail at keeping ghost shrimp. I got 20 of them, thinking it might be a good idea to keep some because the info about dragon fish at walmart said that they eat them and it might be a nice treat. I have NO clue what I did, but I only have 2 or 3 left  I had them in a 1 gallon container until I was ready to put them into tanks, but now there's just 2 or 3...  I'm incredibly lost by that. All of my fish are fine and doing well. No idea what that was about.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Omg. Bunny is SO cute! He likes to curl up behind the filter(idk why, maybe cuz it's dark). I love it!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Argh... it's snowing here.... so much for Spring, LOL....

"ghost shrimp. I got 20 of them, thinking it might be a good idea to keep some because the info about dragon fish at walmart said that they eat them and it might be a nice treat. I have NO clue what I did, but I only have 2 or 3 left  I had them in a 1 gallon container until I was ready to put them into tanks, but now there's just 2 or 3... "

I know what happened.... you're sleeping walking and munching down on the shrimp! 

Ghost Shrimp predate on each other... I found this out the hard way... the females are bigger and eat the males... especially is they are stressed... which I guess they were... :|

The good news is Ghost Shrimp are cheap, so at least you aren't too much money.
Don't feel bad, this happens pretty frequently. It's hard to be a tasty animal...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I just re-read your post (how did I miss this?). 1 gallon is a small container for more than one shrimp. They will eat each other is they feel crowded - and that is probably what they stressed over (although they'll stress over temperature and water quality, too).


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oooohhh okay. I'll probably keep one of the tanks empty for shrimpies on the occassions that I feel like annoying the walmart employees with my eccentricities, lol. I just haven't had time to do nearly enough research on anything and I've been incredibly exhausted besides. I still need to figure out tank covers too... The plastic canvas keep just bending into the water(I think the guppies mess with it) but with the filter being placed where it is and the small bamboo being placed where -it- is... I'm not sure how to do a lid for it. >.< Aside from that, all the fish are doing well and I am back to being spaztically cheerful, lol. I need to siphon 1 of the 10 gallons empty and move it so I can put Chaos on my nightstand, but other than that, I don't have to work for a day or two.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh. BTW I don't think I like my gravel vac. It moves too much water too quickly so I don't get to vacuum all the gravel in one shot, also have to start and stop a lot because I use 1 gallon containers for it.... Vaguely fristrating, lol. Also, the fish are all doing well so far. I've named the dragonfish bunny. He likes to make me scream. Went to check on the tank and he was on the other side,right? Lifted the blanket covering the gap and he launched himself out of the tank at my face. O.O' OMG man! >.<


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

LOL, dragonfish! They don't eat humans, I hope!

When I vaccum my tanks, it is a slow process. I have two one gallon buckets that I use, and to do my weekly water change/vac on the 20H, I need to start the process twice (4 gallons of water). I've gotten good at starting the flow on the shipon (sp), though, so it's not a hassle anymore. 

Is your gravel vac powered? 

I used to keep my 5 gallon by the bed, too. My BF and I re-arranged the bedroom, and the 5 is now in my office. But I kinda miss watching Baby Blue until I fall asleep.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope, not powered. Just a giant tube with giant airline tubing attatched. It's just so big that it works quickly. I used it on one of the 10 gallons again today and realized that I fail at rinsing gravel apparently(either that or it's like when you dye your hair and excess is always coming off). Got the tank pretty clean though and put Chaos in there by himself and put Hekatoncheires into Chaos's 5 gallon. I don't like the 5 gallons being divided... It seems like WAY too little space and my boys apparently agree(they all perked up after the change). I snagged some filter pad things and some items from a friend's fishtank so I could re-seed a couple of the aquariums. The really sad thing about the dragon fish is that I -know- they aren't agressive and won't bite or anything... But I can't help feeling skittish about him. When he jumped out at me from the tank I jumped back and he landed on the floor and I used a towel to pick him up like you would with a snake or something that you were unsure of. I feel bad for being so skittish about him, but I can't help it. He just looks like he'd take a bite out of my finger! I mean, they have teeth and stuff! o.o' I have to find a food I can feed the guppies that won't make the water gross though... The tropical flakes I picked up are HUGE so I've been crushing them in my mortar and pestal, but that just makes it powdery which mucks up the water and I've made the water somewhat brackish so I can't have my pleco or otos in there.... Crap! Can my mystery snail be in there?! I didn't even think about that part.... >.< I hate not knowing things... So frustrating. I got my baby pond snails from mr vampire today too, btw. OMG they're sooooo cute! Just so tiny and adoreable! ^_^ my vinegar eel and microworm cultures seem to be thriving... But I don't know what to do with them, lol. Seems like a waste to just let them not be fed to baby fishies.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I cannot believe I didn't think of that sooner... Moved Mr. Mystery Snail over to hekatoncheires's tank. Snails + salt... Yeah. That was a logic fail. >.<


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Guppies will eat the same stuff you feed to the bettas... at least, mine do. In fact, they eat the tetra's food and the bottom dweller's food too! They're as piggy eaters as the bettas.

Unless you're feeding guppy fry, just toss in the flakes and pellets... they will bite off what they need, and fight over the rest.

Dragon fish... TEETH? :|
(I've got to read up on those critters, lol!)

Don't feel too bad... it's not like you grabbed Mr. 'Bunny' Dragonfish and threw him on the floor. I suspect that unless he enjoys that kind of behavior (jumping up and scaring you, lol), he'll knock it off.

And if he continues to jump up and scare you, have someone take pictures! 
Although I'd given a 100 gallon tank to see the look on your face when he jumped you the first time. ;D


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Lol yeah, the look was pretty priceless i'd imagine, I even girly screamed a little. But yeah, they have teeth that look prettyvicious thatthey use to scrape algae off stuff(since they can't suck it off). I read somewhere that the bettafood didn't have enough stuff in it to keep the guppies healthy.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I compared the Harkari guppy food to what the bettas eat - both require high protein; guppies require more than bettas. 

My guppies get their veg from the other foods present in the tank. 

All I can tell you is what I'm doing at this point - and that my guppies are vibrant, healthy and not overfed (like my CT betta baby - she's darn hefty - I have to go out of my way to fast her frequently. Such a piggy).

My impression is that guppies should not be overfed fats and need lean protien sources.

But there's lots of different information out there... I'm always reading and learning, which is part of what makes this such an interesting hobby. I'm no expert, but I try to get informed and when I find things that work, I pass 'em on.

Have a good night; don't let the dragon fish bite! ;D


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, update one. Chaos apparently thinks baby pond snails are tasty. I caught him snatch one, chew for a sec, then spit it out. >.< Darn it! He'll be getting relocated soon anyway, so not a huge issue. 

Update two. I decided that if one of the foods was possibly the culprit, I needed to know about it. So for the past few days, I fed Tinker the pellets, Chaos the freeze dried brine shrimp, Hekatoncheires the bloodworms, and the girls got the flakes. The girls aren't as spaztic as they were, but that could also just be that they're stressed from being moved into a different tank(my brain decided they needed to be in the 10 gallon on my dresser, rather than on my nightstand, I think it was cuz I wanted Chaos on my nightstand). Hekatoncheires and Chaos are fine and dandy. However, when I went to feed Tinker tonight, I found him bloated and pineconed. His water is at 80 degrees and there's no ammonia or anything. All of the fish that have died have been fed those pellets, so I think it's reasonable to say that they could easily be the issue. Maybe I just got a bad batch or they were old when I bought them, IDK. What I do know is that I now have Tinker in a shallow salt bath, hoping that maybe there's a small chance that he'll recover. I know that once they pinecone, they're pretty much s.o.l. but it's worth a shot. Hekatoncheires was sharing his tank until I rearranged everyone, and he's not showing any signs of illness at all... I'm going to treat him anyway, just in case, but it seems like I may have figured out what's been killing my bettas. I mean, honestly, if it were something in my water, wouldn't the guppy and swordtail fry be dying/dead? I suppose we'll find out. **sigh**


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, Chaos is still hunting baby snails. Forgot to mention that.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Poor Tinker! 

(Off to jury duty; will write more later)


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes - POOR Tinker!!!!  Sure hope he recovers. 

What brand of pellets are they?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Wardley's. It was a sample canister from the petco girl. I don't know if Tinker will recover, but here's hopin. But at least I now have an idea what the problem is.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Somehow that doesn't surprise me. 

I have a friend that has lost two bettas & she was feeding Wardley's. Her first two fish EVER and, for now, has sworn off fish. I tried to help her, but that's what was recommended to her by Petco & that's what she used. 

Hopefully, we can get things straightened around for her in the future should she decide to try again.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I think I'm going to start making pellets out of freeze dried brine shrimp, bloodworms, some of the sun dried shrimp I got, and the flakes. Rehydrate the freeze dried stuff, roll it into tiny balls, then bake it. What do you think of that idea?


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

I think you would probably be better off purchasing a quality betta pellet like New Life Spectrum or Omega one, but that's just me.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Probably, but I have to wait for monies, lol. Thinking of temp fixes till I can go out and buy them.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I use Omega One products (flakes for the tetras & guppies, and betta buffet pellets for the bettas & guppies). Always happy with the content and quality of their food.

The only drawback to their betta pellets is that they are a little large. But if you put them in a ziplock bag and crush them up a bit, then soak before feeding, even a three month old betta fry should be able to handle them. 

Omega One products are reasonably priced. I think the small flakes and betta buffet only cost around $4 each. PetSmart carries them - and you can order online.

Be sure to write Wardley's and let them know what happened (there should be a quality code and date on the container). Did all the deceased fish eat the pellets?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Yep. :/ I personally like Omega One so far(that's the brand of freeze dried shrimp I use). Chaos has been especially hyper and active over the past few days of only getting that. I just have to wait till I have more cash before I can buy more of their products.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

If someone was feeding me shrimp, I'd be more hyper and active too! 

Hey, what a great name for twins... hyper and active... good thing I've given up reproducing, lol! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tell Wardley how many fish you lost when you write to them. Who knows? Prehaps they will try to 'make good' for what happened. 

You've had such a rough start for a beginner - and although 'rescues' are always 'iffy', I wouldn't have expected the rate of loss you had. Hades and Tinker symptoms both started with what looked like bloat, and went to pineconing way too fast.

Hopefully, this will mark the end of your (major) fish loss!!!!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I will totally contant wardley. Btw, I got monies today! Yay! ^____^ SO excited! This had better be the end of the sad fish. Very much done with weekly fish losses. >.<


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> This had better be the end of the sad fish. Very much done with weekly fish losses. >.<


Good luck only, from here on out! *crosses fingers* 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I bought a three-way breeder today... my own guppy fry will soon be born! 

The parents are two yellow/black mosaic tailed guppies (the male is a yellow 'snake skin' to boot, very pretty). I've had these guys since they were fry, and this will be the female's first breeding. I'm excited to see what sort of fry they'll create.

My BF was the one who suggested I get the 3 way breeder, btw... guess he doesn't want to see the babies get munched, lol... I'll turn him into a fish freak yet!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

There's a couple guppies that I'm really hoping were the fathers, lol. One has this kind of seperated tail pattern(like the crowntail version of bettas!). It's five sections and a really neat blending of black, red, and orange. Another is silvery blue with a really big tail for a guppy, a half black guppy, and the rest are red and orange with maybe some black accents. All the females are either colorless or have big yellow and black leopard spotted tails. I am just not ready/set up for fry at the moment. Sure, I have an empty tank, sure the microworms and vinegar eels are ready, but I don't have a sponge filter and the tank they'd be going into is one of the seeded/cycled tanks. *sigh*


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

No worries... it'll all work out when it's time. 

I moved Ellie (the female guppy) to the breeder... Malcom (the male guppy) is sticking right next to the breeder. They've always stuck together - I could be romantic about it, or it could be they're 'schooling' to type or he just wants to eat the young, lol.

But here's the other interesting thing... the CT Female is in the divided breeder (fasting)... and all the bettas are also around the breeder, keeping the other two company.

Fish of a feather flock together? 

If it was curiousity about the breeder alone, I would have thought they'd be over it by now. Are bettas more social than we think?

At the same time, I note that 3 of the betta juvie girls have nips out of their fins... only the ct juvie girl and the VT female who is the oldest don't have fresh nips.

My girls have had nips right along, since the start of the sorority... the water quality is so good, they heal up within two days. And it doesn't seem to affect their af-'fin'-atity towards each other.

I added extra stresscoat+ to the water when I put the breeder in, to help sooth everybody (especially the pregnant female). She spazzed a bit when I put her in it - I was worried she miscarry or something - but she's ok and ate this morning.

Interesting note... when a female guppy is about to give birth, their tummy goes from roundish to rectanglish... and we're rectanglish here... hoping for fry soon...

PS: my guppies are named after my finance's parents. They're in their 80's... can't wait to tell them their namesake's are parents


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I've actually noticed that my betta girls, one and all, freak out really bad when I remove 1 for whatever reason. When I put that one back in, they tend to swarm her with wiggles and bumping(no nipping), though one or two out of the ones that stayed in the tank will have small nips missing out of their fins. While the one I took out is gone, they get super lethargic and such... maybe female bettas really are pack animals? The same issue happened with my guppies. I tried to seperate the female that looks rectanglish from the rest and she freaked so hard for so long that I finally put her back(I felt bad! Lol). Today I plan on trying to get a sponge filter and putting the guppies into 1 of the 10 gallons with the girls in breeder containers. Chaos is going to end up in tinker's old tank once I get it sanitized(no point in taking chances!). I'm probably going to keep my favorites out of the guppy fry and try to find some place that'll take the rest. May end up trying to rehome bunny. I'm kind of afraid to stick my hand in his tank, lol, and it really needs to be cleaned. Hopefully I'll be able to get another 5 gallon tank today too. There's a place here that closes at the end of the month and I'm going today to see what I can get there.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Also, I came up with an idea. If it works, I'll post a video of it. What if you took a clear plastic rubber ball, cut a hole in it and made a seal that was waterproof for it, filled it about 2 thirds of the way with water and inserted a betta? Would he be able to push the ball in order to explore? I think. This would be really awesome for stimulating and exercising my boys. And of course they'd only be in the ball for like 30 minutes(not long enough to build up ammonia or anything, just long enough for a little excersize). And if that worked, could you train said betta?  this is a random thoughtline that happened after a night of staying up and drinking mtn dew. But if I could do something like train chaos to knock down randomly placed dominoes, that could be kind of awesome. Not to mention proof that bettas are awesomely intelligent and curious little creatures. I'm going to be seeing if I can't find a way to seal the ball I have so that I can test this theory.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Have you seen the trained fish videos on You Tube? I've seen trained goldfish and bettas... I wonder if there are others? 0_0


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Grrrr....

I came home late today after driving around Boston all afternoon, to find trouble in paradise: One of the red betta sisters jumped in with the crowntail I was fasting... and poor little red got attacked.

Her anal fin is almost completely gone, and she has a couple shallow nips on her sides. I'm preparing 3 teaspoons of epsom salt and green tea to 1 gallon conditioned water for her to soak in, for a few days.

Argh, Argh, Argh.

And no guppy babies yet. Guppy mom is in her breeder alone now, so she has more room. Not eating any food. Watching her carefully. :|


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Wow, that really sucks  Hopefully she'll come out okay though! I have my boxy guppy sitting in the net breeder with stuff in the bottom and she still has yet to pop out her babies. >.< I'm thinking about rehoming Bunny... I just don't know that I'm really up to keeping up with a brackish water tank, let alone being able to afford it(those little monitor thingies cost a good bit...) Plus, he scares me. I generally don't like things that scare me, lol.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm sure Bunny doesn't mean to be scarey... the fish is probably just reacting out of stress. 

I have a feeling that Bunny would do well in a large tank, with plenty to sink her TEETH into. Rehoming Bunny might be the best solution.

Guppy Update: I let Ellie out of the breeder for now. She was totally stressing out and not eating. She is back with her male (who is in full mating colors right now) and is very content. 

I'm opting for Plan B... watch her carefully; try to catch her fry and place them in the breeding shelter. Will this work? Unknown. But I'd rather not stress out the fish I have for fish I may/may not get.

Betta Update: The little red betta stayed in the Epsom/green tea solution overnight. The next morning I found her clamped up on the bottom of her QT, peeling like a snake shedding her skin. She looked very 'iffy'.

I replaced the QT espsom/tea solution with a batch of fresh conditioned water. After about 30 minutes, the red betta started to perk up. I put a few guppy pellets in her QT (very tiny pellets). She slowly ate them, and continued to improve.

This morning she is swimming and eating just fine... so I think she is well on the way to recovery. 

She'll stay in QT until her fin is regrown and she's fattened up (she's always been very thin). I note her sister (still in the 20H) is drained of color and showing stress bars. Hopefully she'll be okay until her sister returns.

The CT female is so round, I fear she is going to burst... all my fasting may be for naught. She seems determined to eat herself to death. I've fed the 20Hers daphnia for the past two days, and I'm still hoping it will help the CT digestion. We'll see.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Eek! I hope all your girls start doing better. I didn't know guppies did mating colors o.0 I've actually noticed a couple of my own girls getting fatter... but it doesn't look like they're bloaty fat and they're not having trouble swimming either. Maybe they're just getting all full of eggs? Idk. No stress lines, no swimmy issues, just chubby. I noticed one girl with virtical stripes the other day too so maybe they're just being weird, lol. Hopefully I'll be able to rehome bunny, idk though. I'm going to be a bit picky about who gets him(want him to go to someone who knows what they're doing) so it might be a little work. I ended up putting 2 of my guppy girls into the breeder tank I got(they're acting pretty okay so far and eating well). Hopefully they'll spawn soon, lol.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Random update: Chaos has perked up soooo much! It's really kind of awesome ^_^ He's my little muscle fish, lol. He's gotten bigger and his fins are HUGE and he looks... Muscley, I guess, lol. Not fat or anything, just strong. He's super active and plays with the plants in his tank. He blows bubbles, but doesn't look like he's actively nesting or anything. The others that I picked up are perking a little bit each day. Hekatoncheires is still trying desperately to intimidate his snail(to no avail, lmao, the snail doesn't even bother to close up in his shell). The pearl female with greenish purple fins is still kind of blah... Waiting to see what happens. Tomorrow comes water change day. Oh, and somehow Bunny managed to get into the breeder net I got for the guppy girls(stuff in the bottom for the fry to hide in). No clue how he did it, but he did. One of the guppy males looks to be female... Vaguely annoyed by that, actually. It's good for the male to female ratio, but annoying as all get out for population... Still in debate mode about exactly what I'm going to do, lol. Ideas would be welcome! Thinking about seeing what all I can do... I see there's a logic puzzle here... Just getting the answer is difficult.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm glad your betta population is perking up! 

All is calm here. Little red still in QT; she gets fresh water every night and guppy pellets a few times a day (high in protein), is active, pooping and healing, lol!

Still no fry from the guppies. *sigh* I hope she has them when I'm home, so I can put them in the fry container.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, guppy males do have breeding colors! With my guppy, he has a pattern all over his body, called 'snake skin'. When he's just hanging around, the pattern is pale, only visible on the front half of his body. When he's feeling slightly amourous, he gets big black spots near his, um, 'fry-nator'. When he's really happy and 'ready to go' (like when his lady fair was returned to him), the snake skin pattern is strongly visible and colored yellow, black and silver all the way down to his tail, and he has a bluish sheen to him.

Very pretty display! The only sad thing about guppies is they only live half as long as our bettas do.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

Bunny does really sounds like a handful, lol!

Maybe you could donate him to your local school system as a class mascot/pet?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Oddball,%20Dragon%20Goby.htm

Above link: I think this is what Bunny is... Did you know this fish needs to be kept in brackish water? 0_0

This article has a lot of good information about this fish (also known as a violet goby and dragon eel), including other species that would be good with it, what they eat and environmental preferences.

(Yup, that's a freaky fish you've got there, lol)


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Yep! That's bunny! I've actually been to that site. The brackish water thing is part of the problem... The pleco and the swordtails don't handle salt well, but I really don't care enough for the swordtails to want to have a separate tank JUST for them... Also, watching Chaos find new ways to get stuck is kind of funny... Lol.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

The pleco and the swordtail would be okay with any of the other freshwater fish.

As for Bunny, I'd give him a brackish water set up in your bathtub! 
Lots of room to grow! And he doesn't mind company - so, when you bathe, you won't freak _him_ out. (Yes, I'm kidding!)

There are many interesting brackish water species, and you could do a nice brackish water community tank. For now, if you could put him in brackish water and give him a cave to hide in, he'd be happy-er...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I have him set up in a brackish tank(have had that since about 2 days after I got him) with guppies, mollies, and the swordtail(along with all the fry). Not sure what to do with the swordtails... I'm told they're nippy and don't want them in with my betta girls, but can't afford to buy a seperate tank. So far they're doing fine, though. I just wish I could figure out a way to house them all properly, lol


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Ah... then it's easy. Put the swordtails in the tub! Be sure to draw the shower curtain.... they jump!

Yeah, swordtails can be nippy. Well, you could always put them in another plastic bin until you make up your mind what to do with them. 

Speaking of jumping, I just went to feed the girls in the 20H... the little sister to the girl in QT jumped up and bit me on the finger, trying to get a pellet before the greedy CT did, lol!

Worried (a bit) about little red in QT... her scales look like they might be lifting... but she's spunky and eating, otherwise looking well. Hoping it is not... ugh, I can't even say it...  Well, here's hoping it's not...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Okay... was overly nervous about injuried betta... scales look fine tonight, and there is some regrowth on the anal fin... yay!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Woot! By the way, the mollies are now on my grr list. Lol. When I found out I had mollies, I asked my friend about them(her da supposedly knows a bunch about fish). She told me they were super hard to breed and were egg layers. Funny that. A couple of my mollies are swimming around with prego looking bellies and google just told me they're live bearers. >.< I really need stuff for the fry to hide in.... I've decided to let the fry survive, going to hand a bunch off to a friend and her daughter who want to start up their own tanks. Also, I think one of the guppies had babies and didn't tell me. I'm seeing some awefully small guppies in there that I don't remember having before. Today I have to do water changes and get the divided 10 gallon set up for the boys and work with the girls to introduce the 2 new ones to the tank. Then I get to babysit. Looks like a nicely full day for me, lol. I think I'm going to use some of my marble nets(the netted bags that marbles come in) and some plastic canvas to create hidey holes for the baby fish. Found a home for Bunny, someone who has a tank already set up and knows what they're doing. Need to figure out a better way to baffle filters... With the blue sponge stuff in the front, the water current is still pretty heavy. But if I put sponge in the tube, it gets grimey FAST! Not even sure where I'm going to set up the 10 gal. for my 3 betta boys at all. Only spaces left is on the floor or a bookshelf and I don't trust the bookshelf. Maybe if I put my 5 gallon ones on the book shelves and then put the 10 gallon on the floor by the vent... Idk. Really need to get more space, but haven't had the energy, lol.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

One suggestion about the baby guppies - if you have lots of floating plants the babies will hide in them. The adults aren't smart enough to hunt them down in there.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

**nod** Just have to actually go get stuff. Which is easier said than done, lol. My rides keep bailing


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OMG! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG! So far the newborn fishy count is at 20. There were a couple of misformed dead ones in the bottom, but so far they look fine. More to come! OMG They're SO CUTE! EEEEEEEEEEEE!


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes, they ARE cute.  AND no special food needed, per se - just crush up flake as small as you can & toss it in!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I wanna try giving them microworms though. I have a culture that's been set up for a couple weeks now... Lol


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Hooray on your fry! 

LOL, you're going into 'cuteness OD'... and it's understandable. New life is always a miracle; and there is nothing like a baby (even baby house flys are cute... as long as they stay outside, lol)! 

And good that Bunny is re-homed. An 'oddball' fish is great when you've planned for it, not so great when it just 'shows up' at your door!

"Only spaces left is on the floor or a bookshelf and I don't trust the bookshelf."
You know, the floor is really fine to put the tanks on. You can always move them later, as funds allow. Just try to keep them tucked away, so no one trips on them/into them.

None of my tanks are on offical 'stands'. My 5 gallon is on a rock-solid Ethan Allen mini-table that my parents owned when I was born. I covered it with plastic to protect the finish. Oddly, it is the perfect size - it looks like it was _built_ to hold a 5 gallon tank.

My 20H is on a solid wood bureau that I got at a second hand store. It too is the perfect size for the tank it supports, and is rock solid. It's painted a dark green, water resistant, and has three drawers (one for food, one for testing and chemicals, and one for meds/treatments). I got it for cheap, and it is far more substaintial and useful than a lot of aquarium stands you now see in the store.

So, check around with family and friends, and your local second-hand store. Maybe you will find something good for cheap! Just remember to write down the length and width of every tank that needs a stand and bring it with you when looking at furniture. Also bring a tape measure. You want to be sure the furniture is big and stable enough to fully support the tank you have in mind.

Make sure the wood of the furniture is sound and the surface that the tank will sit on isn't bowed. There can be NO gaps under a tank. Finally, if you're wondering if the stand will support the weight of your tank, have some one who is approximately the same weight as the tank sit on the piece. If it doesn't creak, crack or collapse, it should bear the weight of the tank (PS: remember though... if you break it, you buy it).

Good luck with your fry babies!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Only problem with the floor is that when I wake up, I'm almost completely disoriented. I've bumped into my 5 gallon by the door many times because of that. I really don't like the idea of kicking a ten gallon tank on accident, lmao. Also, it looks like I can't add any more girls to my sorority, lol. I tried putting my newest girl in(the other one died... I had kind of expected it though. She wasn't doing so swell when I got her) but the other girls were having none of that. I may just put her in with the guppies and such and see how that goes. I've tried twice to integrate her into the tank but it seems that the current girls are just too well meshed to have any of that nonsense >.< I'm fairly certain she'll be fine though, so not terribly stressed about it. So far the baby guppy count is at 22. Waiting to see if they're done for the moment. Really needing to hurry up and make the little fry hidey holes for them but haven't had time(been babysitting a lot and today is my soon to be step mother's anniversary and tomorrow is the 1st social time invite I've had in forever). At the moment they have a bunch of fake plants to hide in. The dragon fish should get re homed soon(I hope) and then I'll be able to relax with my guppies, mollies, swordtails, and bettas. Thinking about getting some spongefilters, but.... Idk yet. Supposedly they work well(and anything will have to work better than the crappy filter I have in the 30 gallon atm) but I just haven't decided about it yet. It'd certainly be safer for the fry! So many decisions, lmao.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Have fun with your step mom!

I've got a visit with my adult daughters and a birthday party to attend. Will check in on Monday - full of news! 

TTFN!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so update time! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG! Guess what I got! Eeee! I am now the happy shiny new owner of... *dramatic music* A 55 gallon fishy tank! I'm so excited! Omg! I ended up hitting craigslist at JUST the right moment and found a 55 gallon tank for 40 bucks! ^_^ It even game with a stand! O.O So now I have it set up, heated, decorated, seeded, filtering, and even have some plants! I'm planning on putting my female guppies, mollies, female bettas, pleco, and wanting to get something else.... Waiting about htat until I know exactly how many fish I have though. I have a new owner for the dragon fish going to collect him on Tuesday. The current fish count is obnoxious, lol. A friend ended up handing my a few other fish too.... o.o So so far(numbers might be off) the set up is this:

2 5 gallon tanks
3 10 gallon tanks
1 55 gallon tank

8 mollies
7 female bettas
6 male bettas
1 adult swordtail
1 ghost catfish thing
2 khuli loach things
1 pleco
3 otocinclus
unknown number of fry(will count in the morning, lol)
unknown number of adult guppies(will count in the morning)
1 violet goby
unknown(uncountable!) number of snails

I intend on getting a 20 gallon at some point and shoving a bunch of glowfish in it, lol, but that's going to be a bit. I'm debating about exactly what I'm going to put where and where to put the dragon fish in the meantime. I might just throw all the guppies into the big tank and let nature take it's course on the fry and just do selective breeding later if I choose to have more.

I've lost my marbles in the fish tank, haven't I?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"I've lost my marbles in the fish tank, haven't I?"

Marbl-ous news!! 

The 55 gallon was an awesome find!

I'm looking a betta girl this afternoon... and there's a story to this... which I will write tonight (time to go to work, *sigh*)


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

So excited for you, congrats on finding that 55 gal.!!! 

Ok... so here's the story...

Back when I started my sorority, I found a little yellow betta female at Petsmart. Unfortunately, she was ill. I let a store clerk know. They took her out back, and I let them that if she recovered, I was interested in her. They took my name and number.

Weeks past, and I thought the poor little betta hadn't made it. Well, Friday I got a call that she was better, and would I like to see her? I said yes, but since I was away for the weekend, I couldn't see her until Monday afternoon. They were ok with that, so...

Today after work, I went over to see my betta! "She" had gotten bigger, looked healthly, with fins grown out and body longish. I couldn't see an egg spot because the fish was a pale yellow and my eyesight isn't so hot.

The fish was beautiful, with pale blue eyes, and although I though she might be a male, I decided to take it home for further inspection. I have a large magnifer I use when doing my art work, and checked the betta under it. ARGHHHHH!!!! It was a beautiful, pale lemon BOY BETTA!

I had to take him back... very disappointed. Let the Store people know that this was a MALE, and a beautiful fish, rare color. Hope he gets a good home. 

In other news, I pick up a tiny silver and blue CT female (yet to be named). She's sneaking around the sorority as we speak. Two betta girls are in transistional QT, healing from bite wounds. Angel Eyes appears to be the culprit (the original CT), and the plot thickens, as now I suspect she may be harboring parasites, as she has been in isolation QT for two days and continues to swell. She is parasite food (which, so far, she has ignored... but she is going to have to eat it eventually).


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm really excited. There's a girl on Ultimate Betta that does rescues. I have a 10 gallon divided that is waiting for new occupants and I get to take in one of her boys. His name's wolfie, he's the 1st pic in the thread: http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=57482

He's super cute and I really like the idea of taking in a rescue and such. I think he'll be -very- happy. ^_^ 

Aside from that, I'm trying to find a colorful fish that I like that isn't aggressive to put into the community tank to add some flare. I've got my guppy boys and mollies and my betta girls waiting to go in, but there's still plenty of room for something else. I'm considering goldfish, but their bioload is kind of ridiculous isn't it? What would you suggest? Can't have anything black though... The background of the tank is black and my black mollies and pleco completely disappear into it, lmao. I'm planning on getting 2 more of the 50 gallon filters for it(maybe 3) to help with the bioload and such. I need to figure out lighting though... :/ with me buying every piece seperate, I'm going to have to do a makeshift lighting system(I don't think they make light hoods for 55 gallons with 4 openings for filters and space for heater cords to fit in). The tank is filled with gravel and decor and filter media from my cycled tank and a friend's cycled tank as well. Planning on a fish in cycle(it's the only one I can understand for some stupid reason) and already have several plants in it. Ugh, I wish my camera didn't suck! You would love this setup! The tank is so freakin pretty!There's plenty of space on the bottom of the stand for either another large tank or some smaller tanks too. Haven't decided what I'm going to do with that yet though. I want a 30 gallon tank. 

Betta boys update:

Chaos is still tormenting his snails. His snails are still attempting to hide behind the ammonia alert. He's in a divided 10 gallon with 1 blue veiltail boy and plants(this is a cycled tank, btw). The other betta boy is as yet unnamed. 

The new Tinker fish is still happy and active. I've noticed that he floats oddly, but he has since I got him and it hasn't changed even with treatement. I'm thinking it's a genetic thing. He doesn't seem to have any issues, so I'm trying not to worry about it.

Hekatoncheires is mad at me again. Lol. I took the snail out of his tank and put it in the big tank and he's gone back to not speaking to me. >.< I guess he feels that I took his toy away(he does seem to love flaring at it). 

unnamed bettas 1-4 are doing well and awaiting their tanks to be ready(I'll be doing that tomorrow). Boy one is a lovely powder blue color with purple accents. Boy two is a deep blue with no hints of red what so ever, and boy 3 is blue and green. Boy 4 is blue and orange... All four are veiltails. I'm still in debate mode about their names... 

The betta girls are doing wonderfully. All are active, healthy, and fully finned, lol. I've decided to keep only guppy males for a while, see how the mollies do as far as breeding goes, and still not sure what to do about the swordtails. I'm thinking I'm going to try keeping them in the big tank, but I may just pic up another 10 gallon and shove em in. They all appear to be male so far, weirdly enough. The mystery fry are still a mystery... I'm very confused by them. Other than that... Idk what to babble about. Tomorrow I will hopefully be able to rehome Bunny(yay!) and that will make me much much less stressed out. Saturday is my dad's wedding and then I'm leaving town for a week. I may have to hire a friend to come by and drop 7 day feeders into the tanks though, I may end up staying for 2 to 3 weeks, which raises the question of if those feeders are okay for fish to nom for that long??? BTW the rescue betta boy wouldn't be coming home till after I came back to St. Louis. Also, we may end up overnight shipping my boys to my friend's place(where I'm going) if we decide that I'm going to be staying as long as we think. Idk yet though. I'm feeling really babbly, lol! Anyway. So what kind of fish would you suggest to flesh out the 55 gallon? And also, what do you guys think of replacing the gravel with some sort of substrate for plants? Granted, doing that would be massively obnoxious(I'm short and my 55 gallon comes up to my shoulder on it's stand, lol) maybe I'll just do spots of substrate? Or is gravel okay? I would really love to get some colorful plants in there... Need more heat for it too... Though it's staying at a pretty steady 78, I want it at 80. 

I'm thinking about naming my 4 blue veiltail boys after the 4 Greek winds: 
Notus: South wind
Zephyrus: West wind
Boreas: North wind
Eurus: East wind 

They're all different blues and such... I'm thinking the powder blue boy would be Notus, but indecisive about which of the otehr boys would be which wind... Need ot do more research and such.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I really wanna join the IBC but how often do you have to pay dues? Yearly? Monthly?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Goldfish are cold water fish. They won't be able to tolerate the tempertures of a tropical set-up.

Guppies have the greatest temperture and water range out of all the fish you are keeping. They could be in a tank with Goldfish. *HOWEVER*... Taking a guppy used to tropical tempertures and putting it in with goldfish (60F temps) might kill them. Although guppies have the greatest temperture and water range, they do not tolerate changes in temperture and water conditions well. 

You could try to very slowly acclimate guppies to the target tank water conditions and temperture. I'd think that buying guppies that are used to similar conditions to that of the target tank would be a better approach - less stress and die-off for the guppies. 

Finally, the goldfish may grow so large that the guppies would cease to be tankmates and become a food source for them. 0_0

~~~~~~~~~~~

So, you're going away for a bit. Yay! 

What I would do (which may or may not work for you):

Pick a trusted friend to feed your fish every three days. Ideally, this person:

a) has fish of their own or 
b) can follow directions _really_ well. 

Every three days, have them feed the fish one meal. While your fish eat, your friend can check on how your fish are doing. Make sure your friend also eyeballs the equipment and has a way to check the temperture of all the tanks.

Make sure you explain to your friend _exactly_ the amount of food that should be placed in each tank. Be sure to explain to your friend that overfeeding the fish will poison the water (you will not be there to change it for awhile, so feeding should be minimal to keep the water as clean as possible).

Try to use only one food, so your helper isn't overwhelmed.

Keep the tank lights off to reduce stress and (before you leave) you might want to gradually turn the tank temp down a couple of degrees. This will slow the fishes' metabolism, so they will:

a) need less food and
b) produce less waste

Be sure your person is reliable, and tell them to call you immediately if something is amiss. You may be able to advise them over the phone. 

Short of storm damage/power outages, you shouldn't have too much to worry about.

I'm not a real fan of the three and seven day feeding blocks. They add a lot of crud to the water, making it dirtier faster. If this is you're only option, however, you'll need to use them.

I know there are fancy auto-feeders that you can place in the tank and they can be programmed to dump in just the right amount of food for 'X' days, but with all the tanks you have, it would be expensive to do... and since I've never used one, I can't either reccomend them or not reccomend them.

The only problem I can forsee is you that you may lose your mystery fry, as they need warmer temps and small frequent meals to survive. You may want to ask a breeder what they would do in the same instance - maybe they know of something helpful?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The only problem with having her feed them every three days is that she only comes into town on the weekends. I've considered overnight shipping the betta boys to where I'm going and just teaching my gran to throw a pinch of food into the big tank each day, but Idk. Shipping the boys would be expensive... >.< Apparently to take the fish with my in my carry on, they require that I empty out each of their bags, refil the bag with bottled water(no conditioner or anything allowed!) and go from there. How horrible! I understand the need to keep the country safe and such, but honestly, if there were dangerous/explosive chemicals in those bags, the fish would be dead! >.< Stupid freakin people. I'm not entirely certain what exactly I'm going to do and am starting to stress a little... Not going is kind of not an option, but the time I'll be there is undetermined and I'll be worrying about my fish a lot. Aside from the stress factor, what do you think about killifish? I found some really colorful specimins and such and at a pretty awesome price. But I don't know a lot about them... What do you think? Suggestions? And of course, the killifish wouldn't be a thing until after I got back.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"I understand the need to keep the country safe and such, but honestly, if there were dangerous/explosive chemicals in those bags, the fish would be dead! >.< Stupid freakin people."

Our country's government is 'stuck on stupid' right now... 
But, I digress...

I would ask your gran to feed the fish. Shipping the fish sounds like it would be stressful for you and them.

Killifish are very colorful and attractive fish (to rival bettas, guppies and cichlids); s'all I know about them, lol! 

I haven't had any direct experiance with Killies and no one around here seems to carry them.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

This is what I'm considering getting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...942348&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2921wt_905

If I do, I'll be getting another tank so that over crowding doesn't happen.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

OMG, they are so pretty!!!! They look like they'd be tropical-candy flavored, lol (not that I'd eat them, of course. Well... maybe I'd just lick them alittle)! :}


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Lmao! I really love em. My sort of half way boyfriend thing is encouraging my obsession too... He's so not helping, lmao. He's decided that I deserve them and must have them whether the rest of the world agrees or not, lol. It's kind of interesting... He's about as obsessed about my fish as I am, rofl


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Glad to hear your BF is supportive! 

It's always nicer when the people around you enjoy the fishy hobby too


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Slipstitch said:


> This is what I'm considering getting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...942348&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2921wt_905
> 
> If I do, I'll be getting another tank so that over crowding doesn't happen.


They are VERY beautiful, BUT - did you see THIS in the listing? 

"Respectfully client inexperienced in raising killifish Please Do Not ฺBid. Thank you."

Also, since they are imports are there transhipper fees?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

There don't seem to be any extra fees or anything like that. As far as the inexperienced thing goes, I plan on researching the crap out of them by the time they'd get here. They mostly said that because sometimes the eggs take a little while to hatch and people get all uppity and yell about dead eggs. Most of the other killies I've seen on there aren't nearly as pretty as the ones in that picture, either, hence my wish to get those specifically.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I wish I were rich, lol. I'd get a house with a ginormous basement and keep like 10 55 gallon tanks and some 100 gallon salt water tanks and a ton of 10 gallons for my betta boys. All lavishly planted and filled with decor. Tons of my betta girls, guppy boys, mollies, killifish, and in the saltwater some mandarin fish of doom. *sigh* Ah dreaming. So mean, lol. 

So far the 55 gallon is doing well. It's water perameters are fine and the fish are doing quite well, I must say. The boys are all finally out of quarantine and set up in their tanks  One of the blues seems to have a pretty green shine to him too. I decided to test out hte one week betta things on Chaos and he's ignored it so far... Little brat... He'll go after stuff like his gravel, the plants, and his snails, but nothin doin on the actual food item, lol.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

You know, I think you should get a government grant (or go 'non-profit' status), and turn your fish collection into a public aquarium. Sell tickets and book lots and lots of school groups! Have lectures and classes on how to care for fish, so the public can enjoy the hobby without tormenting the fish. 

Might as well make your hobby pay... and help fish in the process...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Angel Eyes (my mis-nomered CT) is looking much less bloated. I guess she had parasites! Duh, I feel like such a jerk, not figuring it out until now. But she's looking better, and when her treatment is done, she'll go back to the main tank.

My new little baby betta, BC (short for Blue Christmas) is so tiny, cute and shy! She alternates between stress bars and breeding bars - very strange. She seems to be eating and sneaking around the tank ok... hope she gets un-stressed soon.

I forgot to tell you: Now that the little red betta is well enough to finish her QT in the main tank (she's in a breeding net cage), her sister has gone from pale to flaming red again! It was so touching to see her change like that... for no other reason than her sister is back again.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm so glad your girls are doing better! I had considered doing a breeding type deal, but I'm nowhere near set up enough for that yet. Also, the next person to tell me I should only feed my bettas once a week might very well get hit. Would you only feed your cat once a week?! Or your baby?! >.<' Freakin dumb... Also, I saw something both cute and sad today, lol. My male bettas so far haven't seemed to care about the guppy fry so I've been letting them grow out in the betta tanks(plenty of hidey holes and the adult betta boys haven't seemed to care much about them. They, for the most part, ignore them). Only one betta boy has decided they were lunch... He managed to catch one that was about a week old and was swimming around with it hanging out of his mouth like a dog with toy will do(had the center of it in his mouth with the head and tail sticking out the sides). I watched him with it for a sec and he spat the fry out... Which swam away, acting totally fine and no visible signs of damage.  I guess he wasn't biting hard enough? Or maybe he wasn't serious about eating it?  The fry is still doing fine... As is the betta boy... I wish I could have gotten a pic of him holding the fry in his mouth though. It was really kind of cute, if vaguely bothersome. He didn't even chase the fry when it swam away from him. Just stared at me like "What?" while I was watching them to see what was going on.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"I watched him with it for a sec and he spat the fry out... Which swam away, acting totally fine and no visible signs of damage.  I guess he wasn't biting hard enough? Or maybe he wasn't serious about eating it? "

Hard to say! Fish are weird, LOL...

Two of the betta girls that were injured are back in the main tank... Far away, they still look tattered but up close, transparent tissue has filled in the gaps.

Now, another of the betta girls has a nip/tear in her anal fin... so prehaps the Angel Eyes is not the culprit? She is still in QT, now in main tank. Hmmm....


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Determining the aggressive one is always an interesting task for me. I've been wondering if my tiny little ct girl might be the one that has issues with new girls... No idea yet. BTW woke up to one of the cutest things ever this morning! Omg. Hestia(my tiny ct) and Mnemosyne(one of my huge bodied veiltail girls) were curled up together. Like literally wrapped around eachother in one of the plants. I know for a fact they're both girls, but it was just too precious. And as an odd note... All the fish(guppies, mollies, and bettas included) keep swarming up to one part of the glas and staring out. For long periods of time. For no determinable reason... Creepin me out a little! Lol. I also had a weird dream... Dreamt one of the kids I was babysitting managed to drain my 55 gallon and hide it and the fish somewhere. It was pretty odd, lol.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"All the fish(guppies, mollies, and bettas included) keep swarming up to one part of the glas and staring out. For long periods of time. For no determinable reason"

Animals sense things we can't... have you got a ghost problem? LOL

"Hestia(my tiny ct) and Mnemosyne(one of my huge bodied veiltail girls) were curled up together. Like literally wrapped around eachother in one of the plants."

Awww! It's so nice when they're cute, and not trying to rip each other to shreds. 

All's quite here... for as long as it lasts....


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm starting to get so nervous about leaving my fish at home... I wish I could take them with me but shipping is stressful and expensive and TSA's idea of safe transport is so completely ridiculous it isn't even funny. *Deep breathes* I have to trust that they'll be fine until I come home... I mean, it's not like I have any other option really... Right? I hope everything will go well... I'm so nervous about leaving them... o.o'


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Your fish are best off at home. 

Get your plans ready and then _trust_ in them, so you can enjoy your time away.


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## BettasForever (Jan 18, 2011)

Whoaa man this thread has 32 pages! O.O


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

BettasForever,

Yup!

There are a few threads on this forum that go on & on, and this is one of them...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

OKay. So I know it's been FOREVER since I've been on. Update time! I'm still in Salt Lake City, I'll be going home in a couple weeks. The people I have tending my fish are pretty epic, though there have been depressing losses. Something went wrong in one of the 10 gallons housing Zephyrus and Eurus. They were lost due to what my sitter thinks was a fungal infection(probably something that touched the betta girls just managed to come into contact with their water). The remaining betta girls are okay and swimming at least somewhat cheerfully. The mollies have given birth. I now have a bunch of baby mollies sitting in a breeder net at home. The other 5 betta boys are doing well, Chaos is still nomming his snails(brat! lol), the pleco is fine and dandy and getting bigger. ALL of the goldfish I'd gotten for my cycling experiment died off. One of the dalmation mollies died(after dropping her fry). The person I'm with in Utah has been feeding my addiction rather horribly. Lol. We have a 10 gallon with tetras in it(didyou know they come in green, purple, pink, and blue?) that we use to jump start our other tanks(we have all sorts of crap in there for the bacteria to love on). He's also gotten me 7 betta girls, 2 betta boys, and we just got our killifish eggs a week ago. The betta descriptions will happen in just a second. The killies are TINY! Smaller than the head of a pin. Sooooo cute! I found a store down here that sells breeding worthy bettas. They take such excellent care of them it's insane. I LOVE THEM! The betta girls are as yet unnamed, one boy is named Ferdinand, Genjo is the name of the other one(he belongs to the bf and bf is an anime freak, lol). The betta girls: 3 crowntails(two with the double ray deal). Two of the crowntails are dragon girls(one gold with red on her fins, the other emerald with blue streaks). The rest are halfmoon girls. A green one with cellophane fins and not a bit of black on her, another is bright blue with green streaks and a black mask, a green girl with a black mask and gold scales, and an almost purple girl with bright blue streaks. The betta boys: Genjo is silvery blue with a black mask, crowntail boy. The other, Ferdinand, is amazing. He was a little sickly because he had been at the store for forever and had hurt his gill on a decoration(they keep their bettas in 1/2 gallon containers with either drift wood or plastic plants) and was bent out a little funky. I'd seen him when I first went there and totally fell in love with him, but didn't get him because I only had permission to get girls. I finally had permission to get him this past week and omg. He's AMAZING! He's red with a blue iridescence making him look purple and a butterfly pattern to his fins. We got him to flare today and he's gorgeous! I think he qualifies as a rose tail.... Most interesting fin formation I've ever seen! Once i can get pics with him actually flaring, I will post the crap out of them. The store had him labeled as a salamander.... Not sure what that means, exactly(is it the black edges to his scales?) but I know that he is amazing and awesome and cute as all get out. Anywho, I will post more. Aside from the fishy babies, my universe is pretty awesome atm.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

The only pic I have so far of Ferdinand


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh! Also! I found the neastest thing at wally world! It's a tube that has four holes that attach to other tubes and stuff. Huge betta home much? I want like 10 of them for Ferdinand. Just need to figure out how to filter it, lol. they're like 10 bucks a pop, but it would be soooo neat to just have a wall taken over by a little maze for Ferdinand to swim through.Or a large table. Idk if they make corner pieces though so.... :/ But totally a thought type thing! Also I'll be posting more pics of him in a folder on my profile if anyone wants to see.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=2114


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Howdy! Wow - you've got bettas all over the country, lol! And now killies! You and Monroe should have a chat about your fish adventures on the road... I sense book potential here... lol

Sorry to hear about the losses at home. I lost my pregnant female guppy and rehomed the male to the split 5 gallon. Could you use some Hikari First Bites for your fry? I have an unopened packat that I could send to you... PM me with your address and I'll send them out. 

Glad to hear your enjoying your visit. Keep in touch!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you for the offer! But idk how to use non live or non frozen food, lol. Currently i'musing freshly hatched, live, bbs and frozen plankton and a frozen worm that I can't remember the name of. Oh! Hornwort is the awesomest plant ever. It grows like CRAZY! 

It's sad about your female  lemme know if you want more, I still have guppy fry at home and am wanting to fill my 55 gallon with betta girls.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you for the offer! But idk how to use non live or non frozen food, lol. Currently i'musing freshly hatched, live, bbs and frozen plankton and a frozen worm that I can't remember the name of. Oh! Hornwort is the awesomest plant ever. It grows like CRAZY! 

It's sad about your female  lemme know if you want more, I still have guppy fry at home and am wanting to fill my 55 gallon with betta girls.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Thank you for the offer of the guppy fry - but I'm taking the passing of the female guppy as a 'tap on the shoulder' from God - no more fish! At least for now. 

I haven't got the room or the equipment and I got laid off from my job... so, now's not the time.

But thank you... and good luck with all your babies!


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## kif3 (May 10, 2011)

Slipstitch said:


> WOW. Btw... Is it a good or bad sign if they try to jump out of the water? He kinda made a dive for the great fishy beyond when I wasn't looking(was doing something and hadn't put the lid on yet, heard the plop and yeah...) and I'm hoping that's a sign of him feeling better. He's tried a couple more times, but I have his lid on now.


it isnt unusual for bettas to jump (depends apon how active they are and their 'personality')
i think if hes making an effort to jump it would mean hes feeling better and that he will be fine ^^ (i hope it does ^^)

(just remember to always have the lid on when your not in the room)


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I have a red betta girl named Thorn who jumps at my fingers every time I open the tank lid to feed the sorority. Fiesty thing!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so I'm back home where I belong!  I came home to happy fishies who swarmed up to say hi ^_^ The 55 gallon got -interesting-. My mystery snails decided they needed babies apparently. So now I have a bunch of tiny tiny snails crawling around in my tank. Incredibly. Adoreable. For the record, I love snails and don't prescribe to the idea that they "ruin" a tank. One of my friends shakes her head at me all the time for my love of them. I had to seperate the snails though, for some reason The Kraken(the white mystery snail) kept deciding to hitch rides on Nameless's back. Nameless being the black snail. Nameless seemed to be unappreciative of his unexpected stowaway and The Kraken was putting a lot of extra weight on Nameless.... I decided it was just for the best to throw The Kraken into Chaos's tank. Chaos, btw, ate most of his baby pond snails(Facedesk) however he seems to be much the healthier for it! His fins have more than doubled in length... Man he's pretty. I can't -wait- to post pics! I mean, he's this bright bright red with blue mettallic streaks through his fins. Sure, he's a normal veiltail, but his fins are almost 3 inches long all by themselves! O.O I got back from Salt Lake City and saw him and about lost my mind! Lol(the boyfriend laughed at me a bit till he realized how ridiculous Chaos's fins are). Boreas(Chaos's tank mate) has grown about the same. Hekatonchieres looks to be about as grumpy as usual, though a bit more metallic, Tinker has found his calling in life babysitting guppy fry. Aeolus tries to taunt Tinker into playing big bad fishy though the plastic mesh of the tank, but Tinker just ignores him and goes back to herding baby fish around. I haven't seen him eat one... He just doesn't seem to care at ALL. As a side note, I found a place in SLC that sells well bred bettas. I mean, none of the ones I'd seen had any defects at all. Apparently she gets them from a breeder in Florida. Which brings me to the list of the new additions that my bf decided I had to have. 

Ferdinand: There's pics of him. I'm 90% certain he's what's called a rosetail. He has a beautiful butterfly pattern and a lucky gill(it got caught on something at some point, I personally think it makes him darned adoreable).

Genjo: Steel grey crowntail boy. The boyfriend fell in love with him and had to have him, lol

Sir Fishy: Black lace double rayed crowntail. Need I say more? He's adoreable. 

Beast: PURE white. I'm waiting about saying what his fin type is. A lot of her fish were pretty young, so it's undetermined as to whether he's a young half moon or a halfmoon plakat. Either way, he's pure, solid, powdery white, no other color except his pupils. He is amazing.

Mighty: BRIGHT red crowntail(double rays) with gold body scales and mettalic fin streaks

Several unnamed boys that I rescued from Petsmart: A delta tail male with a pear l body and rainbow fins. I mean rainbow. They start red and work their way out to purple, then blue, then green, then white. He's pretty awesome and fairly healthy. Did I mention awesome? The other petsmart boy is white with purple looking splotches. He looks like someone threw a paint can at him. Totally epic little dude. Also found a king female at petsmart when they were doing their females for a buck deal. She looks like pics I've seen of mustard gasses... Very cool little girl. 

Oh! I has algaes! Yay! Ok, ok, I know, most people think algae is this evil horrible thing.... But I think it's pretty cool. It's not the grow on the glass type, it's the grow off a plant and look like a root system type(internet research tells me it's staghorn algae?) I'm totally cool with having it in the tank, tbh, it gives the ghost shrimp and baby snails a place to hide and looks pretty neat. I picked up extra ghost shrimp today to help keep it under some level of control. I also kinda did a bad thing... Well, not TOO bad... But I couldn't help myself... I went to Petsmart today because my gran wants an african dwarf frog to put in a tank with the one I already have. They were sold out... But a certain adoreable little guy caught my eye and... Well... We already know what happens when I find cuteness. So I got myself a baby plecostomus(I mean BABY, the little guy isn't even as long as my thumb! And I have little hands!). It's coloring is a light grey with beige stripes and spots and BRIGHT golden eyes. It was the eyes that did me in... I just couldn't help it... Peepit just looked at me and I was done for. So until I move, the baby pleco Peepit will be living with the african dwarf frog and Sir Fishy. I justified the purchase(he was a dollar...) by buying Khuli loaches and ghost shrimp. This was after the lady gave me free snails(did you know they throw them away? *tear*) and offerred me a job. O.O So... I may begin working at Petsmart. In the fish department. And my bf, who is a geek and obsessed with tech, will prolly be working at a computer store. We're gonna be so broke all the time, lol. But we're planning on getting a house, so at least I'll have the basement for my fishy obsession and we'll have plenty of space for our assorted hobbies, lol.

At what point does one reach insane fish girl status?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

slipstich,

Welcome back and... hooray for you! 

I'm so happy for you and your fishes. And the Petsmart people are lucky to have you working for them (but the fishies are especially lucky)! Their fish department will be filled with awesomeness.... lol!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

^_____^ TY! I'm looking forward to the possibility of working there. Only problem I'm gonna run into is that they don't like tattoos and I have one just below my elbow on my forarm.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

They must have some sort of reasonable 'work-around' for tattoos... wear long sleeve shirts, cover with a bandaid, etc...


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I may have to get a waterproof ace bandage. I'd wear long sleeves, but between summer in St. Louis and having to stick my hand in fishy tanks, they'd be vitually useless.


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## Orlandobetta1 (Jun 8, 2011)

Ijust got a new betta fish on friday. He has been acting really strange and it worrys me. All he does is sit ant the top of the tank all day. I have resurched all i can he is not sitting at the top of the tank normally he sits strat up. Sometimes he falls to the grould and cant get up so i have to help him by moving him around i think he is dying but i am not sure! i have never had a betta fish before. now he is blowing bubbles but i read that is normal. he has been very pale before but now his color has come back. he does not eat anything i give him. i have tride everything i could do. please help


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

orlandobettaone,

Welcome to the forum! How did you wind up at the end of this thread, lol?

Could you please start a new thread under "Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies", and answer the below questions, so we can help you?

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Orlandobetta1 said:


> Ijust got a new betta fish on friday. He has been acting really strange and it worrys me. All he does is sit ant the top of the tank all day. I have resurched all i can he is not sitting at the top of the tank normally he sits strat up. Sometimes he falls to the grould and cant get up so i have to help him by moving him around i think he is dying but i am not sure! i have never had a betta fish before. now he is blowing bubbles but i read that is normal. he has been very pale before but now his color has come back. he does not eat anything i give him. i have tride everything i could do. please help


It sounds like he may be stressed... Questions: What sized tank? Does he look -really- fat(bloated)? Do you know what his water temp is? A lot of bettas won't eat for a couple days after getting home, which isn't a huge deal, they're just stressed out by the new surroundings and have no idea what's going on. If he's still having trouble with getting to the surface for air, I'd suggest making the water shallower for a time until he gets better. Also, what kind of food are you trying him with?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

So... Soon I will have some new arrivals in my 55 gallon. NO idea how I'm gonna keep em alive. But I noticed the other day that there were several tiny spots with a jelly type texture.... Inside those little clear spots were... golden eggs. Yesterday those little golden eggs had dots in them... Guess what the likely contenders of parenthood are! O.O In that tank there's some mollies, guppies, betta girls, my pleco, otocinclus, ghost shrimp, khuli loaches, and snails. Idk how long till they'll hatch... But I'm 99.999% certain they;re otocinclus eggs. Shrimp carry the eggs on their bellies, snails leave these weird pods above the surface of the water, mollies and guppies are live breeders, nothing for the pleco to breed with, khuli loach eggs are bright green.... Bettas are bubble nesters... So here soon, I should have about 50 baby otocinclus. Oh. My. God. I can only begin to imagine how cute they're going to be. Hopefully they'll manage not to get nommed on by the bigger fish, but if that looks like it's gonna be an issue I think I'll relocate the adult fish until the babies are big enough. That'll prolly end up with some level of over stock in the 10 gallons I have.... But I think I can manage to pull it off as a temporary measure. Idk... I want to keep the babies, but not entirely sure how I'm gonna pull it off. :/ And they need the algae in that tank to survive on.... So idk. I'll figure it out though.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

For four dollars you can get a fry saver net... When the fry hatch, scoop 'em up and put them into the fry saver. The net is so high that even the jumpiest betta can't get into them to nom the babies. 

I have used the fry saver for in-tank time outs for my betta girls with much success... unlike the plastic three way breeders, which are low enough to allow fish to jump in and out (that's how one of my girl lost an entire anal fin, by jumping into a plastic breeder with an angry betta girl inside).

Good luck with your fry!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm mostly worried about how to feed them if I do that... I have tons of tasty algaes inside the tank, but not so much in my breeder net(which I still need to get hooks for as the suction cup is made of fail). I'm seriously considering seeing if the fish place I like would be willing to take the guppies, mollies, platties, tetras, and swordtails on credit and just put the betta girls into a 10 gallon. Idk. I'll figure out something tomorrow. I'm super spazzed about baby otos though. I imagine they're going to be the cutest thing ever.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Just scrape off some algae, and toss it in the fry saver. It'll grow in there, I'd imagine...

The fry saver I have has metal tabs that bend and hang the net on the tank edge... unfortunately, I don't remember the brand I got.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Have I mentioned that I love how BRILLIANT you are?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Huh? *blush*

Glad I'm useful, LOL!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Wait, but what about a surface for them to suck on? Wouldn't they need a smooth surface as opposed to glass?  Hhhhmmm


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Nah, they'll just suck up the nutrients... no glass required (no glass available in nature, after all...)


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Neat!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

So, how's you're little baby slime suckers?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

In hiding, I think, lol. I keep seeing glances, but then nothing, so not sure.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Update: I finally ended up getting rid of the mollies, guppies, swordtails, and platies. I wanted to make my 55 gallon a little more fry friendly and such(I never wanted the sword tails in the first place). So I took em to a local fish place and traded them in. Hopefully they'll go to someone who doesn't want fry and is okay with them getting eaten. I'm not sure if I have oto fry or not. I keep seeing glances of tiny things moving, but I haven't seen anything concrete yet.The 55 gallon tank currently has 4 female bettas, several otos, 4-6 khuli loaches, and a pleco. BTW Meepit has gotten MUCH bigger. I took a pic of him as a baby and he was about the size of a marble, now he's as long as my hand from middle finger tip to wrist. I ended up tearing apart the staghorn algae trying to catch the rainbow tetras and such, which kinda sucks, but it's sort of attached to the filter now and seems to like it. I'm not sure if -I- like it.... But eh. I'm kind of letting the algae run rampant in the 55 so that the baby otos and the pleco will get a good diet. Here soon it'll be time for me to start throwing in blanched veggies. ^_^ Got my gran an african dwarf frog... It ate one of my bettas. Lesson painfully learned. Poor Sir Fishy  Boreas seems to be nipping his own fins, not really sure what to do about that other than just let him do it and treat his water so he doesn't get an infection. 

Other news: I was given rats. And a rat setup. They are the cutest things freaking ever. One of them(Pollux, being the smaller one) purrs. He doesn't even take up the entirety of my palm, so I'll be holding him and petting him and his whole body will vibrate. The other one, Castor, laughs when he tickles me. I swear it. They're both adoreable and I have no idea how I'm going to train them properly, but I'll figure it out.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh, and yes, I got the job at Petsmart. After reviewing the books I have to learn and such.... Petsmart, as a company, isn't terrible. The employees that work there and the company they get their pets from, however, aren't the best.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Good for you, getting your PetSmart position! Lucky customers will talk to you and get good information about how to really care for their pets!

My oldest daughter has had pet rats for years, ever since she was a kid. They are wonderful pets 

Just don't turn your back on them - they will chew through everything you own! Literally... blankets, furniture, clothes, etc!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Man they're both super energetic today! O.O Gonna have to set up their playpen later so they can run crazy. They're both in isolation at the moment though. I think Pollux is getting that heat spot issue that my dog used to get.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Rats really are busy little creatures. And athletic! They can jump four feet straight up and land on the edge of trash bucket. They can be trained to do tricks and it good for them... rats are some of the smartest rodents you can own.

You might try putting a piece of clean cloth in some cool water, and put it in with your rattie, if it is hot.

Oh, very important... rats can not throw up, so its important not to let them eat anything nasty, or they'll be gonners. 

They can choke on over sized pieces of food and ice cubes! But they might enjoy a tiny bit of crushed ice.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm definitely thinking about putting ice in their water. At some point over the summer I wanna take em outside and get one of those doggy pools and let them play in the water. Apparently they like to dive a little, so I think I'll put stuff in the bottom for them to be curious about. They're really adoreable little boys. ^_^


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

My youngest daughter had a mouse and she used to give it a bath once a week because "mice are stinky"!

Amazingly, rats are much less stinky than mice.

If your ratties like water, you could let them play in the tub with a small amount of lukewarm water and some rattie friendly toys. Just be sure they don't get chilled. And if you turn your back for a second, they'll be climbing up the shower curtains!

Although it might seem tempting to put them near window to catch a breeze, they can get chilled from this (rats are prone to respiratory infections) and exposed to insects like mites. A rat with a mite infestation is not a happy camper, and they are hard to get rid of (my daughter found this out the hard way).

Enjoy your rattie babies!  You're going to make a great rat mom too, lol!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, did research, looks like Pollux is prolly self barbering. They tend to do that when stressed, and since he's in anew home and such, I can see the logic there


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh, and had someone check them out, apparently they're only like 2 or 3 months old each. WAY younger than the ones they sell at Petsmart. Cute little baby boys!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh Congratulations! You're so lucky (and so are they). They have their whole lives to spend with you!

Baby ratties are super cute!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm so in love with my little ratty boys. They're so adoreable. Kind of worried about Pollux though, he keeps chewing his wrists till they bleed.... My friend the rat expert thinks it could be mites or allergies, but idk. Doing extensive research.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, so I THINK I have oto fry. Thing is, the baby whatevers that I'm seeing are SUPER tiny. Like the only reason I noticed them is because I was staring intently at my tank with my nose against the glass. They're smaller than freshly hatched brine shrimp! Little tiny white dots that stick to things and flick around a lot. TONS of them. If it's not the otos doing it, I have no idea what these are... I guess I'll find out, huh? Lol. Aside from that... I rescued a catfish. He's a spotted Raphael cat that this pet store had in a tank full of cichlids. They ate his eyes, most of his fins, and tons of chunks out of his sides. The poor guy.... I have pics of the little guy and have him in a sick tank with anti fungals, anti bacterials, and a small amount of salt. This is day two of him being in my home and he's still alive(wow... tough guy!). Pics coming up.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Poor little dude....


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

By the way, yes, you are seeing his bones on his sides. They chewed on him that badly.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

not sure if that pic would really be considered appropriate on this site, it's rather graphic :/


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm not certain how to respond to that.... Was that humor or are you serious?


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I didn't even realize he's alive, oi
like I said, I'm not sure, I know someone had posted a pic of a female that got ripped open during a breeding attempt and it got removed for being too graphic


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Wow. I wasn't aware that graphicness was an issue. I've seen pics here with torn up bettas and ones covered in fuzz so I didn't think about it. No, he's quite alive, just beat up due to pet store people who apparently didn't understand that cichlids are aggressive. I rescued him from there and am currently working on helping him heal up.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

not sure if being alive versus dead might have some influence or not, the female I mentioned got killed, and like I said, I thought the fish you posted was dead at first.
pet store employee ignorance doesn't bother me quite as much as them being negligent and lazy. I don't expect them to know everything, but when there are pretty obvious signs that something is seriously wrong and they just don't notice or bother to do anything about it, that's what makes me really upset >_<


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

**nod** That's part of why I got this guy. I noticed what was happening to him(the cichlids were attacking him pretty fiercely) and mentioned it to the pet store owner and they just moved him into a tank that contained no cichlids. No treatement, no nothing. So I mentioned how he was never gonna sell with the level of scarring he'll have and having no eyes and got them to give him to me. He's currently sitting in my sick tank with me giving him meals with giant tweezers.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I saw a poor little betta boy today that had fin rot so bad all he had left was a little stub of a tail and they said it would be "irresponsible" for them to sell him to me. if they had been responsible about taking care of the bettas in the first place, he would never have gotten that bad >_< makes me want to kick people


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Ugh. Though, speaking from personal experience, it's not always the store's fault when one of them shows up in that kind of condition. There's a lot of times where the fish gets there like that and in the rush to get the store opened and shelves stocked, they don't notice until they go to feed them. I know that goldfish are a terrible hazard with that. Idk how many times fresh shipments of them come in sick and half dead.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

in this store's case it was definitely their fault. what was left of his tail looked pretty much melted, rather obvious he was in really bad shape :/ there was one guy who could not stop floating on his side, most had some kind of issue >_<


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

*nod* I totally get where you're coming from. I've just come to learn a lot after getting employed at Petsmart. I've seen a lot of fish come in that were just... Terrible... And with bettas, the companies that mass produce them don't bother to be careful with their breeding at all. They're basically treated like goldfish, no check on genetics, unsanitary conditions... I wanna fix it badly, but I don't even know where to start. Plecos come in just as bad too... The last shipment at my store had a bunch of teeny tiny plecos with caved in stomachs. Sad thing is that this is one of the best stores in STL :/ We even have sick tanks and quarantine and such, when the bettas are ill we take them into the back and treat them. I don't necesarily agree with how we're "supposed" to do it, but the employees there try their hardest to make sure every animal there gets what it needs. 

Side note, totally unrelated, someone abandoned a guinea pig at my store. We had it in the back waiting to be able to go home with someone(free of charge adoption) and I got to hold her... Sweetest little thing EVER. How could someone do that?


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I can understand the getting bad shipments and stuff like that, and maybe not noticing something small or that just started, but fin rot as bad as that boy has doesn't happen overnight. I just don't get how it's so hard for some stores to change the water in a little tiny cup every now and then

some people should just not be allowed to have pets :/


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I agree that some people shouldn't be allowed to have pets, but I do wanna outline something real quick. As to changing the water once in a while. Petsmart, at least(I can't vouch for other places and one place I know is TERRIBLE, their betta containers are smaller than the cups we use, which are smaller than walmarts!) is required to change the water once a week. Now at that point, you're taking 100, possibly more, cups and doing water changes on them. You have 2 hours to change the water on the bettas, clean the main fish tanks, pull deceased fish out of those tanks, feed said fish, clean birds, small animals, and reptiles areas(which, btw, those cleanings are daily, not weekly) as well as feed birds, small animals, and reptiles and change out all of their waters. In the back, there's new arrivals and the sick tanks and you have to do the same for them as well as change their beddings. You have 2 hours to get all of this done. ALL OF IT. Keep in mind also that the animals we sell aren't actually our pets. As callous as it is to say it, they're there to be sold to other people. Do I try to handle all the small animals/reptiles I can? Oh yes. I love it. I avoid the birds like you wouldn't believe but I do my best to cuddle and socialize with everything else as much as possible. I get to have my hands in fish tanks with cichlids, gourami, guppies, mollies, and I don't even know what all else every day. It does get depressing when I see how many gold fish die every day or when I find a betta that needs to be doctored, but it's also a pretty intense learning experience. 

>.< I'm rambling. I think it's because I'm tired, I'd meant to respond with ashort thing on why sometimes pet stores don't manage that well at taking care of their bettas and such, but it turned into babble. If you read further back in this thread you'll see that that's a habit of mine, lol. If I were to let myself, I'd probably write an essay on nothing. See? At it again.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

lol, I have a tendency to ramble as well. letters and e-mails from me are probably pretty confusing since I usually just jump from subject to subject as it pops into my head while writing, lol. 
while I understand having a limited time allotted to certain things, at the same time, it seems like the stores that take the worst care of their fish are the ones that almost always have 1 or 2 people standing around doing nothing. I was in one today where there was an employee standing out on the floor obviously on a personal call since they ended it with "I love you." if those people took a few minutes to actually clean the worst of the cups while they don't seem to have anything better to do, they wouldn't have even close to as many sick fish. the petco I usually go to, the woman in charge of the fish section is constantly doing something. most of the time while she's talking to customers she's doing something else as well. it's not even so much a matter of treating them like your pet as people rather wanting to sit around then actually work. when I'm at work, I feel kind of bad if I'm not doing SOMETHING. I've peeled stuck on tape off of counter tops before just because there wasn't much else to do and I felt like I needed to be doing something, lol

btw, not saying you or your store are anything like that, just always seems like the ones with the dirtiest cups and sickest fish are that way.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

You know... You just made my brain make a connection! I never noticed that before. At my store, we're constantly busy. There is -no- downtime except maybe in the evening. We're very much about the vroom vroom rather than sitting around and hanging out. It's pretty hard for me, at least, as I'm not used to this much physical activity and have a bad back but.... It's definitely worth it on a couple levels.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm debating about adopting out Whiskers once he's healthy. I -can- keep him, assuming he'll get along with kuhli loaches and otocinclus, but I want to make sure he has the best life a blind catfish can have. Thoughts?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Update: This marks the end of day 5 with Whiskers the catfish being in my home. He's begun to be more active and has actually taken an interest in his food and has also started tucking himself up behind the filter intake tube instead of floating in a corner. Things are looking good for the little dude!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Your doing great, kiddo! I hope the whole 'mass-marketing of life' thing doesn't get you down. 

You've certainly have a wonderful attitude about your duties, and the limitations you are under.

******

Once he's healed, I'd probably put Whiskers in a tank with some soft sand and silk plants, and let him leave peacefully alone... no more tank mates, no more worries.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Whiskers passed away on Saturday.  I gave it my all, but he was apparently too badly beaten to really survive well. 

I'm slowly coming to hate my job... There are some rules that kill me. 

I'm also downsizing my tanks. I have 2 empty 10 gallons and am trying to sell them off as well as tons of other stuff that I don't really need. Debating about EBay.

Ferdinand and Genjo died pretty much over night, not sure what happened to them, looks like fin rot, but I've not seen it happen like that. One day they were fine, the next just gone and their beautiful fins rotted away.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm SO sorry, Slipstich!!! I KNOW you did your absolute best, but sometimes it just happens like that - sadly.


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## TheBlueBettaFish (Jun 30, 2011)

Sorry about Whiskers. :-(


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm sorry Slipstitch... so much pain in such a short amount of time. I can scarcely imagine how you must feel.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

You did your best for Whiskers... his last days were peaceful & protected and I'm sure he appreciated your care.

Ebay and Craigslist are good for used aquarium equipment... Craigslist is more of a local market thing... no shipping etc. to worry about.

Ferdinand and Genjo... very odd... but fish can take some odd turns very quickly. So sorry 

********

Things are quiet here. The last few days have revolved, oddly enough, around dogs.

I built I very nice 'temporary' enclosure for a friend of mine who breeds small expensive dogs. And I'll be spending the next four weeks or so washing puppies everyday. It's not my normal line of work but always happy to help a critter... just like you.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you guys. 

Yay puppies!

Craigslist has been less funtional than I thought it would have been. I've been posting all week selling live gravel, clean and sanitized 10 gallons, filters, light hood, sick tanks... I sold some of my excess of snails yesterday, lol. I'm thinking about putting my white halfmoon boy into the 55 gallon tank with the khuli loaches and otocinclus. Side note, watching a chubby oto try to keep up with a kuhli is hilarious. They're both swimming circles, but the oto is just not quite up to swimming as fast as the kuhli. They've been doing this for like 20 minutes. 

As a random aside, I need to figure out what to do about my rattie boys' claws. They're tiny and sharp and leave massive amounts of welts and scratches on me. I'm trying to think of something that will work that it's okay if they decide to chew on it... But I may just have to trim their little claws. I mean, I don't want to hurt their feet either... I can't wait to build them an actual habitat though. Floor to ceiling with plenty to climb, chew, and explore. Poor guys are probably bored as all get out in their vaguely suitable baby cage.

I've decided that my gran's frogs are ridiculous. Normally they'll eat as many of the fish as I put in there, but they left one of the feeder guppies until she actually spawned. The fry are doing good about not getting caught, but I just can't quite comprehend the why for that one. she still looks pretty preggo so I'll probably move her to the 55 where the fry will have plenty of hiding space.

Chaos is the most ridiculous fish. Now that I have a better camera, I'll probably start shoving pictures onto this thread and into my albums. 

Also, does anyone know why I'm dreaming about snails?

Work has been... Work. I've had to hold my tongue so much it isn't even funny. I mean... People suck, dude. Bad. The past several days I've worked I've had more than one person inform me that htey know their tank is too small, everyone says that, but they don't care. They just want something amusing for however long that amusement lasts. I mean, I spent an hour trying to make it clear to this guy that NO he should NOT put a gourami into a one gallon tank. I explained why and he's like "Yeah, everyone I've talked to has said that, but I still wanna do it". Yesterday I sold amouse and was talking to the little girl about how to take care of it and that she needed to be careful when playing with it and her mom puffed up and got super snotty saying that she wouldn't be playing with it. Why the heck would you buy a pet for your child and not allow them to take it out of the little cage? I'm slowly beginning to hate people... Just... Man. Really? These are living, breathing creatures, many of which are removed from their natural habitat, and we freaking OWE it to them to treat them right! Why can't people understand that? I just don't get it. I mean, do I have a lot of fish? Probably. But each fish has a minimum of five gallons of water to play in. My fifty five gallon tank has 8 kuhli loaches and like 4-6 otocinclus and the only other thing I'm considering putting in there is a betta! How hard is it to comprehend that creatures need the appropriate amount of living space?! >.< I explained to one person that asked about fish only growing to the size of their tank that on the extremely rare occasion that that occurred, it was because the fish was unhealthy and stressed out. It is unkind to attempt that sort of thing on purpose. And they just didn't get it. I'm tempted to start reminding people of bonsai kittens. >.<


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I think you trim the rattie's nails with a kitten nail clipper... PM me and I'll forward your e-mail address to my daughter... she's a rattie expert and can help you with their rattie needs! 

Poo... yes, people can be denser than black holes... and no less soul-sucking! Remembe,r for every person you meet who's a 'waste of air', there are so many more who will *learn* from what you say. And so many animals you can help!

"does anyone know why I'm dreaming about snails?" 
I think it means you undergoing slow, organic change. Just watch out for people who want to pour salt on you, or want to turn you into escargot!


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I like that definition, lol. THough the snail in my dream became a tentacled thing of creepy evilness, but then, that's how my dreams tend to go. You should hear the one about mechanic bears. That was definitely... Interesting...

Chaos is bubble nesting as is Hekatonchieres. Hekatoncheires seems more interested in building up while Chaos has covered half his side of the tank. I love my pretty boys, lol. I can't wait to get Godless into a real tank and not that third of a divided ten gallon I set up to wait until I could get all my boys set up properly. I've been terribly tempted to rehome one of the petco rescues so he could have their space, but I don't think anyone but someone with an eye for nifty color patterns would be interested.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

Picture day!

Wanna help me come up with a good name for this guy?









Mighty










Hekatoncheires










Hekatoncheires









Chaos









Sorry the pics are huge. Arguing with photobucket.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I ended up getting a 3.5 gallon bowfront for Godless(our white halfmoon plakat boy) and put a skull in the bottom. He is being properly creepy with his skull.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

He looks like the midway at a carnival.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

???


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Your males look great! 

FYI: It wasn't until today that the pictures actually loaded for me, so I could see them.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

^_^ I plan on getting pics of Godless soon. His tank has a nifty light too, so they will be interesting pics. It's hard to take good pictures though, silly boys being all hyper and stuff!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Slipstitch said:


> ???


 Referring to the fancy you asked about naming. Makes me think of a carnival. By the way, a couple of weeks ago, I stayed up all night reading this thread. Amazing. And I learned so much.


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm glad. At some point I'm going to condense the info from this thread and post it as a new thread for beginners. Sorry I didn't respond sooner... Things here have been really crazy.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Hey, glad to see you back again! 

"Things here have been really crazy."

Crazy good or crazy bad?


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## Slipstitch (Feb 19, 2011)

bad. My boyfriend left me for someone else, who he's been seeing on the siide. I'm three weeks behind on my car payment and have to rehome my bettas so ican try and keep my car.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

See PM, SS....


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