# Hole in Head?



## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

So my male betta Sinbad has been sickly off and on. He has had a white area between his eyes for about 3 days. Where his scales are rubbed off and it's like fuzzy almost. He doesn't look good, but he still eats and swims around. I can't set up a hospital tank and he is in my 29 gal divided with 3 other boys. Is it contagious? I'm wondering if I should just flush him. I really can't do it, but if it would affect my other boys I don't think I have another option. And I didn't think fish can recover from hole in the dead, at least that is what I think it is. What would you do?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

How much and how often are the water changes and when was the last one, any additives used, filtration, do you have water prams for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH?

DO NOT flush him, this is cruel, cut his head off if you feel you need to euthanize him......

Find a 1/2-1g jar and Qt him, no food, 100% daily water changes with aquarium salt 1tsp/gal for the next 10 day.

Can you post a pic?


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## SilverCaracal (May 9, 2010)

*DO NOT *flush him!! However, you do need to isolate him because fungal infection is contagious. Do a full water change and add aquarium salt. Also add Fungus Eliminator by Jungle. Add 30-40 grains per 1/2 gallon and don't overmedicate. He will recover if he's treated.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

why would you cut off his head. thats really mean and you say flushing is cruel. im sorry but i would NEVER be able to or do it even if i did have the guts to do it!!. i know you have lots of experience but thats terrible!! if its dying i think you should flush it. i know its hard but there is no other way to get rid of the body unless you let another fish eat it but im sure that you dont want to do that. and a dead fish in the garbage will just make it stink. it could be a little danio in the garbage and it will stink very bad!! so what are you going to do?

if i was you i would just get a 1 gallon tank and then feed him water change do everything you normally would do. and then just take time and see how it goes. if it gets worse then too bad flush it and say your sorry and if its fine then its good!!


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

Flushing is very painful, and a bad way to go. If you do decide to euth him, either cut off his head as Oldfishlady says, or you can try the clove oil route. Whatever you do, DO NOT FLUSH HIM, especially alive! Even when he's dead, it's better to bury him than to flush him.
Try to help him first, before deciding to end his life... A little bit of extra care and it could clear up, because at the moment you have really no idea what it could be. It COULD be hole in the head, or it could just be a small fungal infection that can be cleared up with a few extra water changes and meds. Good luck.


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## SilverCaracal (May 9, 2010)

Most of you'll guys are just trying to figure out how to kill the fish. At least try to treat the fish before you give up and cut off his head.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

silvercaracle: i completely agree. do all you can and then come up with results your last solution should be to kill the fish or give up. shouldn't it?

Codered: i agree with you try curing him but also i do not mean flush him alive. how is that painful? also would you really bury a fish?

you see in my case i cannot bury a fish because i have CATS ALL over. they will just dig it up and eat it.. what do i do?


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

I thought you were saying to flush it still alive. THAT is highly frowned upon, because it puts more trauma on the fish than it deserves. Can you imagine being flushed alive? Living in sewer water with human waste, chemicals, and who knows what else? It would be an extremely painful death, and potentially a slow one, too.

For your case, you could put in a small box, say a toothpaste box. Bury it deep, and you could even put a stone over it. All of those would deter it from being a possible snack. Besides, the point of not-flushing is so you don't introduce a sickness to other fish. Even if your cat got the fish, it would still protect other fish from getting the infection, disease, sickness, ect.

And agreeing with the others, TRY before writing him off as dead. Isolating him is definitely advised, though. Good luck, again.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

CodeRed said:


> I thought you were saying to flush it still alive. THAT is highly frowned upon, because it puts more trauma on the fish than it deserves. Can you imagine being flushed alive? Living in sewer water with human waste, chemicals, and who knows what else? It would be an extremely painful death, and potentially a slow one, too.
> 
> For your case, you could put in a small box, say a toothpaste box. Bury it deep, and you could even put a stone over it. All of those would deter it from being a possible snack. Besides, the point of not-flushing is so you don't introduce a sickness to other fish. Even if your cat got the fish, it would still protect other fish from getting the infection, disease, sickness, ect.
> 
> And agreeing with the others, TRY before writing him off as dead. Isolating him is definitely advised, though. Good luck, again.



no no no NEVER flush a live betta(give it a chance). and that is good advise i will try that next time one dies(hopefully not soon)  all i say is give it a chance. 

is it cruel to feed it to another fish if its dead?? JUST CURIOUS


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

I wouldn't advise it unless it's clear that whatever killed the fish won't be passed on to the fish being fed. Otherwise, I don't see why not. Recycling, thought it might be hard for some to do it.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Okay I understand treating before "writing them off as dead". But not speaking of this case but if a fish is just suffering from you know some infection or ick or whatever and clearly wasn't going to make it. Wouldn't you want to put it out of its misery than just let it die on its own which would be a long painful death? And the method of killing?? Cutting off its head? How could you guys even think of doing that? To a fish that you've cared for and maybe even gotten very attached to, to literally cut off it's head? That is despicable in my mind, I'm sorry I find flushing to be the best and easiest way. I'm fine with those not agreeing with me, but I just can't even fathom that.


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## Learn To Fly (May 15, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> silvercaracle: i completely agree. do all you can and then come up with results your last solution should be to kill the fish or give up. shouldn't it?
> 
> Codered: i agree with you try curing him but also i do not mean flush him alive. how is that painful? also would you really bury a fish?
> 
> you see in my case i cannot bury a fish because i have CATS ALL over. they will just dig it up and eat it.. what do i do?


I didn't know cats dug things up...I have two, btw.

And I could never cut off my betta's head either, puppyrjjkm, but really flushing them alive is much more cruel. I would just let it die a natural death.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

If you're worried about a long painful death, that would be what would happen when you flushed it.. I don't got the guts to euth a fish by cutting it's head off, but it makes them go fast... If you want a more peaceful method, do the clove oil thing.


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## SilverCaracal (May 9, 2010)

What's the clove oil thing?


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

You have no idea what sort of long painful death is waiting for him in a sewer. I mean think it through... he could either die slowly in his home, warm and safe or he could die slowly in a cold, poo filled sewer with god-knows-what in it. I find that idea despicable. I'd rather be cared for through death by the owner that loved me then abandoned by them. 

Of course, I don't think I could cut off a head either. That gives me the shudders. At least it would be instantaneous and certain.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

I couldn't even do the clove oil thing, that's just as bad in my opinion. But if he dies a natural death he would be putting the other fish at risk for a bacterial infection. And if I moved him the stress would kill him. As I've seen this happen before.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

How would moving him kill him? It's just like going through a water change, except a litttllee bit more stressful. And the clove oil is FAR less traumatizing than being flushed. They go to sleep, and never wake up. It's far, far less painful.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I know, I'm just trying to help. If I flushed my fish I'd feel awful not knowing what happened to him. I could NEVER do that to any of them. 

I'd risk moving him. It sounds like you think he's going to die anyway. Moving him and trying to treat him is the best way to go. Even if it's just into a plastic storage bin. You'll feel better knowing you did everything you could and you don't have to risk your other fish.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

SO cutting off the head is DEFiNANTLY OFF THE MENU. please dont do that!!! 

i think that there is just no way of killing the fish without a little guilt being given to the owner. what i would do is just give it its needs and let it die a peaceful death. since you seem like you dont want to treat him


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## shards (Feb 27, 2010)

I'm curiouse what the clove oil thing. Also what if you put him in the frezzer like you do with deformed fry. Or just move him. (Please don't like get mad over what I just said I've never had a betta with a problem like this)


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

bettalover2033 said:


> SO cutting off the head is DEFiNANTLY OFF THE MENU. please dont do that!!!
> 
> i think that there is just no way of killing the fish without a little guilt being given to the owner. what i would do is just give it its needs and let it die a peaceful death. since you seem like you dont want to treat him


I agree. It's just that he's pretty old and has been sick often, so I really don't think he's going to be able to pull out of it.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't see why moving him out of the tank would be a problem, really. You say it's because it will kill him, but isn't that what you're planning to do anyways? At least by moving him you give him a chance to live, and you don't risk infecting the others.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

shards said:


> I'm curiouse what the clove oil thing. Also what if you put him in the frezzer like you do with deformed fry. Or just move him. (Please don't like get mad over what I just said I've never had a betta with a problem like this)


not being mean but why would you put it in the freezer? and you say like a deformed fry? you can do that? what does it do when you put the deformed fry in the freezer?


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## Betta Slave (Dec 8, 2009)

Well, it's not recommended to put the deformed fry in the freezer... I know I sure wouldn't wanna freeze to death :/ 
I myself would just cut off the deformed fry's head... with a lot of mental arguing and shying away. I hope I'm not coming across as a mean person.... but I would find it very hard to do. I would just let your betta sit in his tank and let him die a peaceful death, as mentioned before.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

THANK YOU sum1 else thinks so and i see that cutting off the head is VERY hard just leave it in the tank let it die but make sure that ur there when it does die because you wouldnt want it to just die and have no1 there. stick around!!!! he is going to betta heaven if there is such a place lol but dont worry u r a good owner and i bet he had the time of its little life


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

so wat are you going to do? let it die? freeze it? cut off its head? flush and have it die slowly? or be there while it is warm and safe until death reaches it?


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Death is a natural part of life, and it's my belief that it should be left that way. I can see in some cases where there should be some sort of interference, but in this particular one, no. Personally it'd be too heartbreaking to me.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

If your going to kill him the most painless and humane thing to do is freeze him. ( get a cup fill it with him and tank water and freeze him.) He will fall asleep then die. But please treat him with salt baths,quarantine+salt, or look for a goos medicine to treat him with! I hope he feels better! I read this method of putting a fish to rest PAINLESSLY in a book on bettas and it is called anesthesia. It will leave you with guilt ( no matter how you kill him you will have guilt) but at least he died without having to suffer anymore and he dies in his sleep.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

but MARYROX he will die cold and feeling lonely like his owner abandoned him just like if you flush him. why would you want to freeze it? thats terrible IMO  but if you sit there and wait till he dies then he will feel a little better that your there for him and he knows that you would do anything for him...


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## shards (Feb 27, 2010)

You know what its not our desision on how the fish goes. Just try your best I mean your absolute hardest to cure him. And if it doesn't work then it doesn't work and he dies but you will be able to know he died not because you flushed not because you flushed him but he died and you did everything you could to stop it. But its nature and you can't stop it from happening. Best of luck.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

If we're going to talk about ways to euth a fish, IMO the most humane way is to use clove oil. You put the fish in a deep sleep with the clove oil and then net it and dip it in boiling water for a second or two. This is the method that I've heard of being most humane.

Honestly, I think you should euth him. The chances of him recovering are very slim, and I wouldn't want him to suffer.

But, it's ALL your choice. I strongly suggest you don't flush him though..


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

doggyhog said:


> If we're going to talk about ways to euth a fish, IMO the most humane way is to use clove oil. You put the fish in a deep sleep with the clove oil and then net it and dip it in boiling water for a second or two. This is the method that I've heard of being most humane.
> 
> Honestly, I think you should euth him. The chances of him recovering are very slim, and I wouldn't want him to suffer.
> 
> But, it's ALL your choice. I strongly suggest you don't flush him though..


Never heard of that Clove Oil method... I read Clove Oil to put them to sleep, then vodka (I think ;x) to kill him...


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Yeah I read an article on that not too long ago, clove oil + vodka. *shudders* ... That'd probably be the most painless.


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## shards (Feb 27, 2010)

Yep get him drunk then let him go.......... that's the way I want to go lol


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

bettalover2033 said:


> but MARYROX he will die cold and feeling lonely like his owner abandoned him just like if you flush him. why would you want to freeze it? thats terrible IMO  but if you sit there and wait till he dies then he will feel a little better that your there for him and he knows that you would do anything for him...


 I thought it would be the most painless way for him to go IF he must go.I understand your point of view, but i still would go with the freezing method its quick and virtually painless for the fish. I just dont want fish to suffer more than they need to that's all.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

yes SHARDS put it in good the best way possible its your decision


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

i just do not want to hear about euth ugh it gives me the shivers also i never heard of boiling it oh my god just let it die or just care for it as much as possible who knows maybe it will survive...its your choice i say. but im not commenting on this anymore it sounds way too sad to me


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