# People are gonna get mad



## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

But I just wanted to say, why do people think that bettas are happier in big 5 gallon tanks with filters? I mean, who are you to judge that they're happier then ones living in small bowls that get cleaned every week? I just don't understand it. You can't read their minds so you don't know which they prefer. If a fish is healthy and swimming around in a small bowl or tank then why do you feel the need to attack the owner? 

Bring on the hate :/


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

You can keep a fish in a small tank. It's totally okay. Completely fine. 

As long as you're willing to do the necessary water changes, which would be like... every other day. And you keep the bowl at the proper temperature. 

Maybe I seem like a moron, but I can definitely tell when my fish are comfortable. When I moved Robert into a ten gallon, I thought he would love it... but he didn't. He freaked out, and never calmed down. So I moved him back to his 5gal, and now he's happy. 

It depends on the fish what they're comfortable with. But NO fish is comfortable in a 0.5 gallon unheated unfiltered bowl with water changes once a month. They're just not. They'll die.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I know my bettas are fine and I do water changes once a week. I still need to get heaters though.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

How do you know they're fine if you say we can't know they're fine?


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Lol I personally believe it's totally owner preference. Smaller bowls do fill up w ammonia and nitrates faster though, so to keep the betta healthy you'd need to do a couple full water changes each day. I also think a bowl that doesn't allow much room to move is unfair. If you want to be a pet owner then go ahead and treat them like a pet  I have two 1.5 gallons and I am perfectly happy with that size for the bettas I have in them!


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Well looks wise, they seem fine. Active with healthy fins


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Okay, then that's how we judge when they're happier.  Same way you know when your fish are happy. 

I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. I only know what has worked for me. When I had my fish in anything smaller than a five gallon, it was hard for me to keep up with water changes and the water fouled quickly. It was a pain. My fish got sick occasionally. So when I see newbies with tiny tanks I always suggest they get a five. 

You say you change the water once a week? How big are your bowls?


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Agreed. And given that I have a small room with limited space, I can only have certain sizes of tanks... and so many.... As I'll be going into the Air Force soon, I don't want to leave all my fish and Samm (turtle) to my granparents... when they don't even know I have more than two bettas. xD

But they'll be in good hands.

Anyway, thankfully I had enough room to squeeze in a 20 gal, 10 gal, 3 gal, 1 gal, and a half gallon right next to my laptop (which has my six guppy babies in it atm... it was my QT. ' )
And I'll have to find either a 2.5 gal tank for my betta who is on the way here... or a 1 gal vase. Which... all the vases my grama has on hand aren't big enough that I think my new HM would be happy swimming in there. :|

Water changes are fairly easy to keep up with , too. All you do is let some water sit long enough to get chlorine out and/or use dechlorinator and switch out the water in whatever way you choose. At least every other da--... well... it depends on the size of your tank. xP
Those who think it takes too long or is a hassle should look up easier ways to do it, 'cause really... it's not hard. And it's better than finding a pale/sick/dead betta a while later.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Below a gallon, sadly. I'm tight on money so I can't really afford to upgrade until I get a job. But the water doesn't dirty very quickly in a week. It stays relatively clear even for weeks, but thats way too long


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Below a gallon, sadly. I'm tight on money so I can't really afford to upgrade until I get a job. But the water doesn't dirty very quickly in a week. It stays relatively clear even for weeks, but thats way too long


Well, you can't see what builds up in it. Water can be Crystal clear but also toxic to fish. It's fine in the short term (and I totally understand the short on money thing) although I would definitely change the water a little more often. That's just what I would do, though.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

If you don't have a way to test ammonia you can not be certain that they are clean. Ammonia is clear but in a tank under a gallon it will reach levels high enough to start causing your fish internal damage in less than a week, prolonged exposure will eventually kill your fish.

Personally I believe.. if your going to have a pet why only give it the bare minimum? If you have a hamster and only keep in in a small cage with a wheel it'll survive... but why wouldn't you want to make it's life as interesting as possible by giving it room to move around and explore?


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Well you have to admit, they're much better living with me then probably dying at the pet store. I don't think one of mine, butterface, would have lived much longer. His water was really bad and I think he might have breathing problems from it now :/


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> Agreed. And given that I have a small room with limited space, I can only have certain sizes of tanks... and so many.... As I'll be going into the Air Force soon, I don't want to leave all my fish and Samm (turtle) to my granparents... when they don't even know I have more than two bettas. xD
> 
> But they'll be in good hands.
> 
> ...


I had a bit of a special case.  I had to cart water long-distance to change my water, and as a student I didn't have much time. xD

It's just been a lot better with the planted 5gal. I know that if I don't have time to change water once a week the plants will take care of it for a while, although I haven't had to let it go yet.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

FuulieQ said:


> I had a bit of a special case.  I had to cart water long-distance to change my water, and as a student I didn't have much time. xD
> 
> It's just been a lot better with the planted 5gal. I know that if I don't have time to change water once a week the plants will take care of it for a while, although I haven't had to let it go yet.


Ha! That's understandable... and cart the water from where to your dorm, if I may ask? |D

I try to keep all the tanks I have with plants. That way, if something happens that I completely forget to change the water one day, I don't have to feel completely guilty.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

davidbailey said:


> Well you have to admit, they're much better living with me then probably dying at the pet store. I don't think one of mine, butterface, would have lived much longer. His water was really bad and I think he might have breathing problems from it now :/


True, it might be better than a pet store. But it really is better to try to change the water a bit more often. It might help his breathing problems, too, but only time can tell that, really.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Personally I believe.. if your going to have a pet why only give it the bare minimum? If you have a hamster and only keep in in a small cage with a wheel it'll survive... but why wouldn't you want to make it's life as interesting as possible by giving it room to move around and explore?


It was proven that animals with a lot of things they can interact with in their environment makes them smarter. 

Just something to think about. x)


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> Ha! That's understandable... and cart the water from where to your dorm, if I may ask? |D
> 
> I try to keep all the tanks I have with plants. That way, if something happens that I completely forget to change the water one day, I don't have to feel completely guilty.


Somewhere ridiculous. l< I used a big metal bucket. Haha. It was terrible, and my room was the size of a bathroom. Seriously. I was miserable last year. xD


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

well, i know most of mine were happier when they were upgraded to larger tanks. Cup's alot more active now, even with his longer fins, than he was in his one gallon tank. same with Freya, a CT female who passed away Halloween weekend. she went from a .5, up to a 2.5, and was really happy about the space. she'd explore for hours, finding new things that she'd get excited about. only betta i've ever had who DIDN'T like more space, is Lulu. she's honestly happier in her 1 gallon, than she was in a 2.5 gallon. if i ever get the chance to do my dream tanks(two 20 gallons, divided 4 ways), i'll try her out in a '5', but if she doesn't like it, she'll stay in a 1, with daily water changes.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

FuulieQ said:


> Somewhere ridiculous. l< I used a big metal bucket. Haha. It was terrible, and my room was the size of a bathroom. Seriously. I was miserable last year. xD


Oh man... well, glad things are better now. xD
Or I hope they are, lol.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

I try to upgrade as I get the space and money for it... And as long as the fish is fine with the updrade. In the meantime, I upkeep what they're in as I should.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Well you have to admit, they're much better living with me then probably dying at the pet store. I don't think one of mine, butterface, would have lived much longer. His water was really bad and I think he might have breathing problems from it now :/


Just because it is better does not mean it is good enough. You really MUST be changes your water 100% every other day in your tank. Once a week is far too little. The dangerous stuff in the water is clear, you can't see it. And often times a betta will "seem" and "look" fine, but most issues start internally.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Well, turtle10, if my bettas die prematurely then you'll be right.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I don't understand why you won't just change the water? Ammonia burns and hurts the betta when they breathe it in. You know the right thing to do but yet you refuse to do it? I don't understand.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I change the water once a week. I don't have time to do it everyday. Not to mention, I would notice if they had ammonia poisoning. It doesn't build up fast enough for that to happen anyways.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Well, turtle10, if my bettas die prematurely then you'll be right.


But turtle10 is right... not only if your betta dies. Not trying to bug you here, it's just that it hurts a fish to be in ammonia. It's like if I kept you in a closet (not that I would, I'm no creeper! ) and left you to breathe in and sleep in your filth, while only letting you out once a week to clean your closet up, then put you back in. You get what I'm sayin'? I'm not trying to sound like a nag, but you really need to up your water changes. In a tank that small, water changes dont take long anyways


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

That's every other day. And if your bettas die, it will be too late, won't it? Isn't that kind of what you're trying to avoid, them dying?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> I change the water once a week. I don't have time to do it everyday. Not to mention, I would notice if they had ammonia poisoning. It doesn't build up fast enough for that to happen anyways.


First of all, you can't see ammonia poisoning. Second of all, YES it does build up that fast, especially in something so tiny.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I would notice ammonia poisoning. There are symptoms.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> I would notice ammonia poisoning. There are symptoms.


The symptoms come AFTER the ammonia starts to affect them. So no, you actually would not notice ammonia poisoning, not until it has already damaged them Why won't you just do the water changes? The ammonia really does build up that fast. Your betta is suffering when you let it go that much, do you realize that?


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't understand how you know this. Do you have a degree in biology or ecology. Please tell me.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

No but I am an experienced betta owner, as are the others on here. I don't need to have a degree to know that ammonia builds up that fast, I have a test kit. Also every member on here will tell you that I am right about this, and some of these members have 20+ years experience. You NEED to do more water changes, it is a simple fact that really can't be argued down.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> I don't understand how you know this. Do you have a degree in biology or ecology. Please tell me.


Amusingly enough, that IS my major.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

It shouldn't take that long to do water changes. Shoot, just do it more often, maybe right before you go to bed, right after you wake up, or something... your betta would thank you for it.

All it is is water changes. Not like you're doing something that costly or complicated. :/



FuulieQ said:


> Amusingly enough, that IS my major.


Lol, and I would say... touche. xD


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I agree with Blakbird, a water change at most takes like 20 minutes. There is NO way that you can't make that sort of time. There is honestly no excuse. Wake up earlier if you have to.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Well, I did have to cart water up a few flights of stairs... took a little longer than that... and I honestly feel really bad that I didn't do it more often. I feel like Friedrich could have lived longer if I had managed to do things properly.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

In a tank thats less than a gallon, a 100% water change would take 5 minutes, _tops_. There is no way you dont have time for that. Just get your water ready with your water condtioner, make sure the temp is within a few degrees of the tanks temperature, scoop your betta out of it's bowl, dump the old water out in a sink, pour new water in, float betta in cup to equalize the temperature, release, and your done!


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Agreed with BF15.

I just did Uncle's water change... took me two minutes.  I don't really do the dump-the-water thing, though, lol... I use a straw thing to transfer water slowly and don't really have to take Uncle out of his home. Saves his bubble nest a little too.

My lack of better describing words for the tools I use for water changes sucks. xD
As does my ability to speak comprehendable English right now, apparently. 

If you'd like more suggestions on how to change the water, I'm sure we can give out quite a few ideas.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

FuulieQ said:


> Well, I did have to cart water up a few flights of stairs... took a little longer than that... and I honestly feel really bad that I didn't do it more often. I feel like Friedrich could have lived longer if I had managed to do things properly.


Hm... well, I understand that, then, but you and I know that it would've been a lot better if you just sucked it up and changed the water more (lol, my choice of words... |D )

But we all learn from mistakes... and sometimes it's the hard way. Hopefully the OP doesn't learn the hard way.


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## freakumDRESS (Mar 16, 2011)

There's no such thing as a happy betta. They're always miserable. Flaring at their own reflections and such. In fact, they have such strong jealousy and low self esteem that they'll attack any other fancy fish that they feel is prettier, smarter, or faster than them. They're never smiling either. They're the bah humbugs of the fishy world.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

If you get an ammonia liquid tester, you'll find these members are right. Test the water every day, and after a week in a less than a gallon tank, the ammonia will be off the charts. Every time a fish breathes, it excretes ammonia from its gills. It's sort of similar to locking someone in an airtight room for a week. that air will get stale fast, and dangerous (to humans) in little to no time at all. The funny thing is the air LOOKS clean and good to breath, right? Seriously ammonia is dangerous stuff. Would you want to be breathing it your whole life?

I doubt any of us are more than peeved at you for not listening, but I wouldn't push it. We _want our fish to thrive ,_not just do better than before. In my honest opinion, when you get a pet, you better have the resources (time is a resource as well) to make that pet's life as good as you possibly can. I'm not saying you need a 10 gallon for one fish. I'm not saying you have to constantly be worrying or thinking about the fish and its well being 24/7, all I'm saying is give him room to explore, he's the one stuck in the tank all his life, no? Give him a heater, wouldn't you want your internal temperatures to be where they ought to be? Keep his water clean.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

JKfish said:


> If you get an ammonia liquid tester, you'll find these members are right. Test the water every day, and after a week in a less than a gallon tank, the ammonia will be off the charts. Every time a fish breathes, it excretes ammonia from its gills. It's sort of similar to locking someone in an airtight room for a week. that air will get stale fast, and dangerous (to humans) in little to no time at all. The funny thing is the air LOOKS clean and good to breath, right? Seriously ammonia is dangerous stuff. Would you want to be breathing it your whole life?
> 
> I doubt any of us are more than peeved at you for not listening, but I wouldn't push it. We _want our fish to thrive ,_not just do better than before. In my honest opinion, when you get a pet, you better have the resources (time is a resource as well) to make that pet's life as good as you possibly can. I'm not saying you need a 10 gallon for one fish. I'm not saying you have to constantly be worrying or thinking about the fish and its well being 24/7, all I'm saying is give him room to explore, he's the one stuck in the tank all his life, no? Give him a heater, wouldn't you want your internal temperatures to be where they ought to be? Keep his water clean.


Perfectly and politely said


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

freakumDRESS said:


> There's no such thing as a happy betta. They're always miserable. Flaring at their own reflections and such. In fact, they have such strong jealousy and low self esteem that they'll attack any other fancy fish that they feel is prettier, smarter, or faster than them. They're never smiling either. They're the bah humbugs of the fishy world.


Interesting take on things. However, a person can never truly know. No one speaks fish.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Edit: Now I feel like a troll....Forget I ever said anything my emotions got to me....


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks, JKfish. I'll probably up the water changes to every few days. You were the only one who told me that they excrete ammonia when they breathe. I honestly thought that it only happened when they pooped which I know isn't that often. I'm also working on the heater, like I said I'm low on money so I can't go out and buy one right now.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

And JKfish is not JK-ing.


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## freakumDRESS (Mar 16, 2011)

It always took me half an hour to do a 10 percent change for my first ten gallon, before it broke. I want to the fish tank. Stared at it for 5 minutes. Got my syphon and bucket, started syphoning, realized I wasnt aiming for the bucket, freaked out, knocked over the bucket, hit my chin on the floor after i fell, got a towel...


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

davidbailey said:


> Thanks, JKfish. I'll probably up the water changes to every few days. You were the only one who told me that they excrete ammonia when they breathe. I honestly thought that it only happened when they pooped which I know isn't that often. I'm also working on the heater, like I said I'm low on money so I can't go out and buy one right now.


As far as JKfish being the only one telling you they "excrete ammonia" maybe that's true. JK did say those words exactly. But we weren't really saying anything different or kidding you when we said ammonia was breathed in.
And while it may not seem often that they poop, it still builds up really fast... Why poop is waste, no? '

And I remember you saying that about the heater. As long as you aim to get that sometime soon when you can. 

But if I may, 
if more than one person... more than three... four... add a couple more if you want. If a lot of members are saying the same thing ("do water changes" seemed to be popular), it kinda really means we're telling the truth, we know what we're talking about... something to that effect.
It's better to not argue that we don't have proof when you don't have a way to prove your side of the story either. D:

We just want the best for our fishies. And we want to help others' fishies too.
And as far as standard things like water temp and changes go... (and food, lol, don't forget the food) ... we know what's not enough and too much.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Arashi Takamine said:


> Edit: Now I feel like a troll....Forget I ever said anything my emotions got to me....


'S alright. It seems emotions run high as an OP responds later and later... or not at all.
We're concerned for the fishies.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> Hm... well, I understand that, then, but you and I know that it would've been a lot better if you just sucked it up and changed the water more (lol, my choice of words... |D )
> 
> But we all learn from mistakes... and sometimes it's the hard way. Hopefully the OP doesn't learn the hard way.


I made no excuses for myself, there. lD

I did the best I could at the time. Those were very hard years for me and Friedrich was a trooper to put up with me then. Hopefully the planted five gallon I set up for him for the last half of his life made up for whatever issues I caused him early on.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Thanks, JKfish. I'll probably up the water changes to every few days. You were the only one who told me that they excrete ammonia when they breathe. I honestly thought that it only happened when they pooped which I know isn't that often. I'm also working on the heater, like I said I'm low on money so I can't go out and buy one right now.


Nobody ever told you that? :U 

Yep, they do all their gas exchange and peeing through their gills. It's not very practical to pee like a land animal when you're aquatic, I imagine. 

Actually, I wonder if fish do pee as well as excrete ammonia through their gills?

-heads to wikipedia-


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

FuulieQ said:


> Nobody ever told you that? :U
> 
> Yep, they do all their gas exchange and peeing through their gills. It's not very practical to pee like a land animal when you're aquatic, I imagine.
> 
> ...


I dunno about bettas, but I had a fish pee on me once. Maybe... or was that Samm? ... >>

You let me know the result of your findings, FuulieQ. xD


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

No problem DavidBailey  I'm glad to have cleared things up for you. If possible, since it is less than a gallon, I would go for 100% once a day... maaaaybe 100% every other day, but that's only if it's like .8 or .9 gallons. Anything less than that you'd need 100% daily.

I remember when I first got into betta keeping (just a bit over a year ago actually ), I kept my first betta in a .5 gallon for maybe 6 months. For a bit I did a water change once a week. Yeah, he seemed alright. Then I joined the fourm and learned better. I took an extra 5 minutes out of my life to change his tank 100% once daily, and he honestly started looking even better than "okay". Then I got him a larger cycled and heated tank and kept up with water changes, and honestly I had never seen him happier. It doesn't take a lot to properly provide for a betta. A tank large enough (IMO 2 gallons) to explore, clean warm water, good food, and wha-la... you have yourself a super happy betta! The prices of the most vital things like heaters may be rather high, but just remember.... bettas can live 5-7 years, so the investment in the long run will seem like little to nothing. 

Just so you know, if you are low on money, there are typically some great deals on craigslist for tanks, heaters, etc. I check there every now and then, and I've seen some great deals.

---



> And JKfish is not JK-ing.


 that made my day XD


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

@JKFish: lol, I'm glad. x)


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

No worries, water changes don't take that long, but they are needed to ensure that your fish are happy and healthy! I do 3 water changes per week for my betta's 1/1.5 gallon tanks, and it doesn't take more than 5 minutes each. Dump the water, rinse everything under hot water, fill it up again, treat it, presto!


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

I find it funny how OP mentioned they don't have time to do daily water changes, but was on this thread arguing for several hours at 30 minute intervals...

Sounds like plenty of time to change water to me :S....it takes me 30-40 minutes to change the water in my 8 Gal, 5 Gal and 2.5Gal combined.

Not to judge, just sayin'...


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> I dunno about bettas, but I had a fish pee on me once. Maybe... or was that Samm? ... >>
> 
> You let me know the result of your findings, FuulieQ. xD


They do, although they also exchange ammonia through the gills. You must have been legitimately peed on. :B

I almost got peed on by a sea cucumber once. Thankfully it decided it liked the next guy less than me and dumped all over him as soon as I handed it off.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

FuulieQ said:


> They do, although they also exchange ammonia through the gills. You must have been legitimately peed on. :B
> 
> I almost got peed on by a sea cucumber once. Thankfully it decided it liked the next guy less than me and dumped all over him as soon as I handed it off.


Haha... well.. like I said, it was either a fish or my turtle Samm. xD

and
LOL
How... nice. I guess it is better to get peed on than dumped on tho'. Sorry for that guy, lol


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