# Mystery Snail Shell.



## colorxmexravyne

Hi all! I have a really quick question.









You see where the shell is solid and sort of jagged? And then afterwards it's just sort of...brownish? Is this growth or erosion? My tank's PH is somewhere around 7.6/7.4, and the PH of the water here is 7.4. The last time i added cuttlebone, it shot up to like 8.8 so i'm sort of wary about putting it in there again but if i have to, i will.

Right now, my snail eats TetraVeggie algae wafers as his staple and occasionally I'll offer him some blanched spinach or fish flakes. I don't know anything about GH and KH if it's even relevant because I currently have no way of testing it.

Thanks!


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## maycausedeath

I'm not a snail expert so hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the darker part looks like new growth to me! :-D


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## colorxmexravyne

maycausedeath said:


> I'm not a snail expert so hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the darker part looks like new growth to me! :-D


That's what I'm hoping it is and that it'll turn white later on. Thanks for your input!


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## colorxmexravyne

casually bumping this ~


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## colorxmexravyne

it would seem that everyone else is in the same boat as me. i've been trying to monitor my snail's shell to see if it's getting better/worse, but i can't really tell at this point.


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## colorxmexravyne

So, it's been about a month and I'm still not really sure what's going on with my snail's shell. However, after doing a little comparison, I think it's safe to assume that either there's something wrong with what I'm (not?) feeding him, or my water params.









The picture on the right is from about a day or two after I got my snail back in July. The one of the left is from the opening post, taken on September 17th

















I took these pictures about fifteen minutes ago. It looks to me like my snail's shell is thinning/eroding. I'm not really sure what to do about it, either. My water params are all in check (0/0/5, pH of 7.8, 5 gal filtered, heated tank shared with 1 male betta) and I've had cuttlebone in the tank for the past month. I've offered my snail both spinach and cucumbers in the past, but he's not really crazy over either of them and prefers fish flakes. I feel stuck, honestly. What else can I do?

*edit:* I just found this picture from THE day that I got my snail. It's bad quality because it was taken with my phone, but you can sort of see the condition of his shell the day I got him if you look close enough.


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## Tikibirds

That happened to my snail's shell too. If your PH is 7.8 then I am going to say its some kind of calcium deffiency. I had cuttlebone as well but the shell kept eroding to the point where the fleshy parts were no long able to fully fit inside the shell. 
*Detoriation of shell and operculum*


 shell detoriation: superficial wormholes; deep holes, loss of shell top
To have a good understanding about the causes of shell detoriation, one needs to know some basic shell anatomy [sread more about shell anatomy here]. The most important thing to remember is that the rigidity of the shell is provided by a strong, calcified inside, with a protective protein layer at the outside. It's the latter that prevents the chemical detoriation of the calcium at the inside. Once the protective outer layer is damaged, the calcium layer is exposed to the water. This shouldn't be a big problem, as long as the water is rich in calcium and is not acid, but once the pH of the water drops and the water becomes acid (pH below 7), the calciums starts to dissolve. As long as this process advances at a slow speed, the snails is often able to enforce the calcium layer, although only at the inside. The ouside of the shell is dead material, and cannot be repaired by the snail itself, so once damaged, it will stay that way. The oldest parts of the shell (the shell top) and those places that are often hot when a snail fall on the bottom are also the places that are most vulnerable as the protective outer layer is often damaged at those parts. Problems arise once the shell is detoriated that much that holes are formed, exposing the soft tissues below. In case of large holes, the snail can get problems with keeping the mantle cavity open, with lung collapse and other problems as result. Nevertheless, smaller holes an pose a problem as well, especially in a crowded tank, as other snails and fish won't hesitate to eat the exposed tissues. Luckely, snails do have some kind of repair system: they simply calcify the exposed tissues to protect them. 








Severely damaged shell (_Marisa cornuarietis_).







Slow progressed shell erosion. Not that the exposed tissues is already calcified.
_Pomacea diffusa_ So what to do once a snail has gaping holes and or a detoriated shell surface? 
First of all, check the water quality: is the pH at 7 or more? (keep it between 7-8). How about the water hardness? (keep the kH and GH high). 
A good way to regulate the water quality is to add a source of calcium in the form of crushed egg shells, specialized preparated, crushed sea-shells, marble or something similar. Once you are sure that the water is well enough to halt further detoriation, one has to decide if the shell should be repaired or not. If the snail is active, one can assume that the snail does not suffer from the damage. In such case a repair should be rather considerd a protective measurement to prevent other snails from attacking the exposed tissues. If however, there are no possible tissue eaters like fish and snails around, or if the holes are that small that the tissue stays out or reach, one can choose to leave the situation like it is. The snail will calcify the vulnerable tissues anyway as reaction to the exposition to water. 








An 2.5 years old _Pomacea diffusa_ with eroded shell.







Repaired shell: shell pieces glued over the holes (_Pomacea canaliculata_). If however, a large amount of shell is absent or if there is a real treat for the snail to become eaten alive, once can choose to repair the holes by glueing pieces of snail shell, eggs shells or even pieces of plastic over them. The best glue for this is medical superglue, although common household superglue will do as well, but is toxic until it's dried. In such case (household glue) one needs to make absolutely sure that the glue does not come in contact with the snail tissues. Pits and detoriated surfaces can be repaired by covering them with strong nail polish (make sure to use water resistant polish), epoxy resin or even better super glue. The latter dries quickly and even hardens more when in contact with water. More info about shell repair can be found on Pam's website. She has carried out several experiments with shell repair and has a good practical guide available. 

 Operculum detoriation: holes, loss of operculum
While the shell mainly consist of calcium, the operculum is build out of proteins, although the species from the genus _Pila_ also have calcium deposits at the body side of the operculum. The operculum is much less vulnerable to detoriations, but if a snail is not well fed, it can occur, however, that the operculum is thin and even get's holes in it. In such case, there is not much that can be done besides taking good care of the snail. Also keep in mind that the operculum is not essential for an apple snail to survive in a common aquarium with no snail eating fish around. Beside the shape and the smoothness of the operculum, the attachement of the operculum to the back of the foot is a good indication of the well being (or not) of the snail. In normal situations the snail's tissues completely cover the inside/body side of the operculum. If the snail is not in optimal condition, this tissue is retracted and only the center of the opreculum is covered by snail tissue. In such cases one needs to check the water quality and make sure everything is allright. Old snails can show such tissue retraction as well, while it's not necessairly a real problem with them. After all, one can compare this with the retraction of gums/tissues around humans teeth if not taken weel care of.Occasionally, it does happen that the whole operculum is lost. This is not a life treatening for the snail itself, but it often indicates a real serious health problem in the snail, so be sure to check the water quality and be sure the snail isn't dead. 


http://www.applesnail.net/

My water had a low PH due to the mopani wood, so I added a bunch of corals I had from a trip to the Caribbean and sea shells. Even then, it only tested at a 7.2


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## colorxmexravyne

Thanks Tikibirds. I've read that article numerous times before and I understand _why_ the shell deteriorates due to erosion; I'd just like to figure out how to make it stop. If it's a calcium deficiency and cuttlebone's not handling it, what other kinds of foods can I start feeding my snail (besides spinach & cucumbers because he's not a fan). I'll try the eggshells thing, though.


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## Silverfang

honestly I'd have to say that looks like new growth to me.

You have a gorgeous blue, I was so sad when mine passed away. I would suggest adding in a calcium supplement occasionally. Caltrate is a popular one suggested... by other apple snail enthusiasts. Good food also helps. Dark leafy greens, blanched veggies, algae wafers, all great food. I blanch two slices of zucchini and all that's left after 12 hours is the skin, after another 12 that's gone too.


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## colorxmexravyne

Silverfang said:


> honestly I'd have to say that looks like new growth to me.
> 
> You have a gorgeous blue, I was so sad when mine passed away. I would suggest adding in a calcium supplement occasionally. Caltrate is a popular one suggested... by other apple snail enthusiasts. Good food also helps. Dark leafy greens, blanched veggies, algae wafers, all great food. I blanch two slices of zucchini and all that's left after 12 hours is the skin, after another 12 that's gone too.


I honestly thought he was supposed have a white shell, which is why I've been so concerned. I thought the shell was getting so thin that you could see his body through the shell now. But, if it is new growth, then how long does it take for the shell to turn white/blue? Because it's been looking like this since September. Thanks for the response by the way!


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## Silverfang

With apple snails new growth will sometimes never match the "original" colour of the shell. Since you say this growth appear to be thin and almost translucent I would suggest upping his or her calcium intake. Calcium tabs are a simple way to do this. Depending what else in the tank, a small bit of crushed coral or aragonite (like a tsp!) in some nylon might help.


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## colorxmexravyne

Silverfang said:


> With apple snails new growth will sometimes never match the "original" colour of the shell. Since you say this growth appear to be thin and almost translucent I would suggest upping his or her calcium intake. Calcium tabs are a simple way to do this. Depending what else in the tank, a small bit of crushed coral or aragonite (like a tsp!) in some nylon might help.


Oh, it's not the growth that appears thin, it's the old shell that appears to be thinning. But I'll definitely look into buying calcium tabs. Do I just crush them up and put them in my tank? Would that alter the pH?


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## Silverfang

the calcium tabs (like caltrate, or any calcium supplement from the vitamin section). I'm not entirely sure what to do about pre-existing erosion and wearing. A former member was rather experienced with keeping snails, a shame he isn't around anymore.


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## Tikibirds

> Thanks Tikibirds. I've read that article numerous times before and I understand _why_ the shell deteriorates due to erosion; I'd just like to figure out how to make it stop. If it's a calcium deficiency and cuttlebone's not handling it, what other kinds of foods can I start feeding my snail (besides spinach & cucumbers because he's not a fan). I'll try the eggshells thing, though.


I read that article a few times too and tried everything people suggested to me but noting seemed to work, plus he never really ate any of the cucumber or any other veggie I put in there. I never did find a solution and he passed away a few weeks ago. He was kinda big so it may of been due to old age.


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## Tikibirds

> Thanks Tikibirds. I've read that article numerous times before and I understand _why_ the shell deteriorates due to erosion; I'd just like to figure out how to make it stop. If it's a calcium deficiency and cuttlebone's not handling it, what other kinds of foods can I start feeding my snail (besides spinach & cucumbers because he's not a fan). I'll try the eggshells thing, though.


I read that article a few times too and tried everything people suggested to me but noting seemed to work, plus he never really ate any of the cucumber or any other veggie I put in there. Supposedly they will eat lettuce and zucchini as well but mine never touched it. I never did find a solution and he passed away a few weeks ago. He was kinda big so it may of been due to old age. 

Are you viewing this on bettafish.com or tropicalfishkeeping.com? 
It took me like a year to realize bettafish.com is a subsection of TFK :-?
If you go to the main site, there is an invertabrea section. You can always ask there for help. I think alot more people visit the TFK forums then the betta forums.


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## Silverfang

Mine DEVOUR zucchini. I blanch it, stick it in, the next morning and nothing. You mighta had weird ones Tiki.


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## Tikibirds

None of my animals are...normal.


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## colorxmexravyne

Tikibirds said:


> I read that article a few times too and tried everything people suggested to me but noting seemed to work, plus he never really ate any of the cucumber or any other veggie I put in there. Supposedly they will eat lettuce and zucchini as well but mine never touched it. I never did find a solution and he passed away a few weeks ago. He was kinda big so it may of been due to old age.
> 
> Are you viewing this on bettafish.com or tropicalfishkeeping.com?
> It took me like a year to realize bettafish.com is a subsection of TFK :-?
> If you go to the main site, there is an invertabrea section. You can always ask there for help. I think alot more people visit the TFK forums then the betta forums.


Yeah, mine doesn't seem to like veggies at all? He nibbles at algae wafers, but doesn't really eat those either. I'm not really sure what he's eating in the tank to survive, but he's still alive so I guess it's enough for him? :x

And I've always wondered why I would sometimes get emails from TFK saying that I was subscribed to a thread there! Haha, I thought they were two completely different sites!

I'll post at TFK for additonal help, but you all have been wonderful, thanks!


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## inuudo

colorxmexravyne said:


> Oh, it's not the growth that appears thin, it's the old shell that appears to be thinning. But I'll definitely look into buying calcium tabs. Do I just crush them up and put them in my tank? Would that alter the pH?


I've been following this thread since you first posted it because I had similar (I thought) concerns about my apple snail. It wasn't until I read this that I realized that you were talking about the old shell not the new growth. :?

When I first put Snailio Iglesias in my ten gallon with neon tetras, the pH was below 7. I didn't realize the harm it was doing him until I could see growth on his shell and what looked like cracks forming. After doing a ton of research, I corrected the pH and hardness as much as I safely could (tetras like low pH) by adding a mesh bag of crushed coral to the filter. The pH is now around 7.6. The tetras are fine and Snailio's shell has improved considerably. 

Here's a link to my youtube videos in which you can see the damage to his shell and the growth and repair. (The one called "Snailio Iglesias meets Slois Lane" shows it best.) 

One thing you'll note is that the oldest part of his shell is greyish and there is some pitting. The grey parts were there when I got him, but I am not sure about the pitting; it may have happened in my tank because of the pH problem. 

Another thing that should stand out is the distinct lines or ridges that run crossways (not the dark lines of coloration that run around the shell in the direction of growth). This is caused by a change in water quality. You can see two of the ridges quite clearly. I think the older one is from when I first got him as that is where the shell scarring starts; the point at which some of the scarring stops is probably from when I increased the pH. The most serious of the scars still continues through that part because it damaged the edge of the shell where the new growth occurs. I think that, with a bit more time, this, too, will end like the other scars did.

All of this is just to say, that if it is the older shell you're concerned about, I doubt that altering the pH or water hardness will fix anything (i.e. regenerate shell in that area), but you can ensure that new growth is solid and that old shell doesn't deteriorate further by adding crushed coral to the filter. A couple of other things I did were to put a piece of cuttlefish bone on the bottom of the tank (no idea if he pays it any attention, but it makes ME feel better!) and to give him spinach or zucchini a couple of times a week (he ignored these the first few times, but I persevered and now he's on them like stink on poop).


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## Maddybelle

Make sure to get the calcium tabs WITHOUT vitamin D. I've had a few who had eroded shells no matter what I did. I finally just did what my snail friends on the unmentionable snail forum said: paint the shell with nail polish! You have to be very careful not to get any on their body, though. It can burn them. My baseball sized _Pomacea insularum_ female, Frank, is now a beautiful pink. =)


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## inuudo

I've heard before about using nail polish to help preserve shells but I can't understand how it could work. I've never been able to keep nail polish on my own finger nails longer than a few days before it begins to chip off! :lol: Does one have to continue to reapply it to the snail shell fairly regularly?

ALSO, I don't think it's permissible for you to casually mention a baseball-sized PINK snail without showing us PHOTOS!!!!!

(please!?!)


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## Maddybelle

Here's Frank, freshly painted a few months ago.








She's actually closer to tennis ball size, LOL, but she's still growing. Here's how big she will be, all grown up.


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## inuudo

Wow! and has the nail polish stayed on all this time? 

How old is Frank?

I saw a huge apple snail at the LFS a while ago -- it was probably about tennis ball sized. Amazing creature!


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## Maddybelle

Oops, it didn't post the second pic! Here's how big Frank will be:









She's a little shy, but a very sweet snail once she warms up to you. (Yes, I know each of my snails' personality) She lets me hand feed her. Her sister, Fred, was much more outgoing. She went to school with me on a regular basis, and could shake hands. Unfortunately, Fred had a very tragic accident involving a very hard floor and a 3 foot drop. I patched her up, but there was internal damage to her liver, and I had to put her down. She was my baby.

Yep, the nail polish has stayed on. A few chips here and there, but it hasn't harmed her or her friends any. I have no clue how old she is, I got her as an adult. Cost me $6, too! She's layed 3 clutches for my, but only 12 babies survived. Its a shame they're illegal to ship across state lines.

At the moment, she and her pea sized babies are living in a 7 gallon plastic waste basket. Its just temporary, until my snail raising tubs outside warm up again in spring. Then I can start breeding snails again! At one time, I had several hundred baby snails sliming around out there.


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## colorxmexravyne

inuudo said:


> I've been following this thread since you first posted it because I had similar (I thought) concerns about my apple snail. It wasn't until I read this that I realized that you were talking about the old shell not the new growth. :?
> 
> When I first put Snailio Iglesias in my ten gallon with neon tetras, the pH was below 7. I didn't realize the harm it was doing him until I could see growth on his shell and what looked like cracks forming. After doing a ton of research, I corrected the pH and hardness as much as I safely could (tetras like low pH) by adding a mesh bag of crushed coral to the filter. The pH is now around 7.6. The tetras are fine and Snailio's shell has improved considerably.
> 
> Here's a link to my youtube videos in which you can see the damage to his shell and the growth and repair. (The one called "Snailio Iglesias meets Slois Lane" shows it best.)
> 
> One thing you'll note is that the oldest part of his shell is greyish and there is some pitting. The grey parts were there when I got him, but I am not sure about the pitting; it may have happened in my tank because of the pH problem.
> 
> Another thing that should stand out is the distinct lines or ridges that run crossways (not the dark lines of coloration that run around the shell in the direction of growth). This is caused by a change in water quality. You can see two of the ridges quite clearly. I think the older one is from when I first got him as that is where the shell scarring starts; the point at which some of the scarring stops is probably from when I increased the pH. The most serious of the scars still continues through that part because it damaged the edge of the shell where the new growth occurs. I think that, with a bit more time, this, too, will end like the other scars did.
> 
> All of this is just to say, that if it is the older shell you're concerned about, I doubt that altering the pH or water hardness will fix anything (i.e. regenerate shell in that area), but you can ensure that new growth is solid and that old shell doesn't deteriorate further by adding crushed coral to the filter. A couple of other things I did were to put a piece of cuttlefish bone on the bottom of the tank (no idea if he pays it any attention, but it makes ME feel better!) and to give him spinach or zucchini a couple of times a week (he ignored these the first few times, but I persevered and now he's on them like stink on poop).


Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't really see what you were talking about with your snail. I mean, I saw the parts where you could tell there was a change in water quality, but I guess I was looking for something more like my own snail's situation. In any case, thanks for the help! I won't be able to go out anything for the next...week or so, but where exactly do I get crushed coral? Because it doesn't really look like cuttlebone's doing anything. My snail doesn't pay it any attention and his shell isn't getting any better. And since he doesn't eat veggies, it's (along with other calcium additives that have been suggested) pretty much my only option.


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## colorxmexravyne

Maddybelle said:


> Make sure to get the calcium tabs WITHOUT vitamin D. I've had a few who had eroded shells no matter what I did. I finally just did what my snail friends on the unmentionable snail forum said: paint the shell with nail polish! You have to be very careful not to get any on their body, though. It can burn them. My baseball sized _Pomacea insularum_ female, Frank, is now a beautiful pink. =)


Haha, I don't really trust myself to not get paint on my snail. I can barely paint my fingernails without getting nail polish everywhere. xp Is there a specific brand of calcium tabs to look for? Or is it just water has the highest mg for the lowest price? I remember someone mentioned something about Caltrate earlier in the thread....


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## Maddybelle

Any brand will do, really. I use tums in an emergency. See if Walmart has some Caltrate knockoff for cheap!


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## colorxmexravyne

Maddybelle said:


> Any brand will do, really. I use tums in an emergency. See if Walmart has some Caltrate knockoff for cheap!


Will do. Thanks!


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## MellC

I'm a bit late on here, but will tums harm my community tank? We have the fruit flavored kind.... Tums that is, not the fish haha. I have Teras (neons and glow lights) Cherry Barbs, Corys, a Rafael, and GloFish, a red Beta, and 3 snails. One is white and rather large, and two are smaller and black (or they were when I got them, a few months ago). I had another yellow one but he/she died last week and when the shell floated to the front and I scooped it out it was full of holes, pits, and cracks it was also really thin in places. I'm scared to death that the rest of them will bump off too.... I'll go grab some spinach now, my fish won't eat it but maybe my snails will.


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