# What to look for in female HM?



## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi, all. I will be buying females for a sorority soon, and even though I am not interested in breeding, I would like to buy quality bettas. To that end, what should I look for as far as how the unpaired fins meet? Is it okay for them not to meet at all in a female?

Any other advice you can offer me?

Thank you.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I would still love to know the answer to this, should anyone have the time, but I went ahead and selected some females imported from Taiwan anyway. If anyone is curious, they can see the girls I picked (along with an import male I have coming) at this thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=176185


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I have had 80 views to this message and no replies. I am truly interested, for the future, in knowing what fin types to look for, and I thought this was the appropriate forum to ask. My apologies for any inappropriateness of the query here.


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## samiam11894 (Apr 18, 2013)

Why not just get bettas that you like look nice rather then what other people qualify as good?
Not meant to sound snobby (sorry  ) just trying to encourage individuality


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

For a sorority with no serious breeding goal it makes no difference. 

Not to be rude... but this is a section specifically for showing and the standards they have to meet. With no intention of breeding or trying to attain that goal.. the post does not belong in this section.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

If you want to be educated on what to look for to train the eye, I do a lot of reviews on fish on another site. Might want to join my facebook page.. it will help. And if you are interested in showing, can then get you started correctly.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you, Basement.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I do have to say I'm confused as to where the post does belong, though. It would be seem to be even more unfitting in "Breeding Bettas," and I would think that the people who would be knowledgeable about the question I am asking would be here.

Perhaps I phrased my post poorly. The fact is that I would prefer to buy show-quality bettas, whether or not I am currently interested in breeding or showing. The reason for that is that I do not know if I might be interested in breeding or showing in the future. I don't want to decide a year or two down the road (once I'm more knowledgeable about this subject) that I want to breed or show and not have fish that would enable me to do that. I have read the IBC standards for fins, and I do not understand the particular requirement for HMs that I asked about--whether all the fins need to meet.

I genuinely appreciate your offer to join your Facebook page, Basement. That is the kind of information for which I'm looking. Unfortunately, I am one of those oddballs that will only friend people I actually know in real life.

Thank you for your time.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

And for a sority.. be careful mixing fish. You will want to house them separate for over a month to make sure they do not have disease. There is some crud around and a sorority is a perfect place for it to get established. Even if you get all fish from one breeder.. be careful of disease and take steps to isolate the fish and watch them for lethargy, no appetite and more.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

I do not do "friend" for me personal. Only use the personal FB to keep up with family and a few close friends. Search for basementbettas on FB, it is a page. I have over 1200 likes and tend to be educational over there.

THis area tends to be about discussing the standards. Even though you want show quality fish, keeping a pet sorority is really what you are doing. A *quality* show female will be close to $30. And you want a tank of them. At least 5 is a good number. So now you are looking at $150. And then you have to figure the shipping in on top of that. All fish from one breeder and now you are in around $200. See where we are going? It is not worth it to most to spend that kind of money to have a tank of female bettas just for the ability to saw they are show quality. So the assumption is you are going to have pet quality fish, sorry I jumped rather quick to that. Reality is you will get some pretty fish to keep that are probably going to be culls from a breeder. 

You do not tend to see the really great females offered for sale. I hoard mine and show few of them. A female tends to *stamp* her type pretty strong in the offspring so I never let the best ones out of the house. And since here lately I can not breed males, you will see all my show points this year are from my females. Realize they are my culls, so it sould give you an idea of what I may have hiding at home. You do not tend to purchase show quality but breed it in your lines over time. 

Again, my FB tends to educate people on what to look for. You want good toplines, good body length, 180 spread, sharp edges, 8 ray branching and perfect color. ALso want a broad dorsal base, the dorsal to flow smooth into the tail and an level anal that also ties in even to the tail. I personally do not like long anals on females as I hate them on the males. And you have to have balance. Probably think I am speaking a foreign language by now. There are some reviews here and I do them on AB fish and post them to my FB page for the purpose of education and developing an eye. I can be a bit *brutal* on your average pet fish as I am pretty hard on my own. But what I achieve in my breeding is a result of that hardness.

So if you want a tank of females and are not where you can breed just get some that are attractive to you. Spend some time on my FB page and develop your eye. Read the reviews then look at your fish and find their flaws. The more flaws you can spot, the better your eye becomes. When you are ready to breed you will have an idea of what you want. You will not get anyting close to it.. but you can decides what faults are easierst to live with and go from there. A breeder will produce fish. A good breeder will improve them. Anyone can buy two nice fish and get lucky. A good breeder will be several generations down and producing better fish than they started with and hopefully winning some classes.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Any fish you purchase now will be too old to breed whe you think you are ready as well. If there is a fish you are considering for purchase, a photo here to have it evaluated is better than the general question you asked.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Here goes.. based on the pics you submitred.
First goldish girl:Topline good but a little short in the body. Got decent branching but the branching is not consistent on every ray. Look at the center rays, you have 6 branches. That need to be 8. Now looke out the first two top and bottom rays. They are branched onlu 2 or 3. Also the bottom of the tail has those 2 last rays short so she has rounded edge there.

Dorsal ok and not a bad shape. Brahcnig is nice there, just want a broader base. Add DT. Anal is very sloped and a pita to correct. You want that anal level. The last anal ray I do not want any longer than the tail rays. 

Color wise she is not showable. You either need to get the red out or red inb and have a bi-color fish.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you, Basement. That was very helpful!

The seven females I have already bought were Taiwanese imports off of Aquabid--I spent $25 apiece on them and then was given one free. The male Taiwanese import I bought was $50 on a BIN. I don't mind spending more on a "show-quality" betta at all--to me the difference seems negligible compared to what might be my ultimate goals, should I decide to go that direction.

And it sounds--if I'm interpreting you correctly--as though you have answered my question with "the dorsal to flow smoothly into the tail." That's why I was asking if it was okay with a halfmoon if they didn't meet. Thanks! 

I'll look for your page on Facebook.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Fish 2, redish in the cup:
Odd way to show fish.. good length but hard to see top line. Not sure about the slope there right around the eyes. Same issues w ith branching as the first fish but this one has even m ore roundness to the edges as those ourside reays are considerably shorter than the middle ones. 

Dorsal has very short first rays. Need to breed for longer first rays. This is typical in bettas and something we always work on. Color wise again not showable. IF red there is too much irid [that shine is irid.. blue color on the scales] and it bleeds into the fins. Major faults. Anal has same fault. Very sloped. You really must, if you want a good line of bettas, get female level here. This shape I hate and it look horrible on the longer fins of the males. Get level at all costs.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Fish 3 metallic/red in cup:

This fish could be longer. Tail is branched but the length is not there. She has some RT or rose tail in her. Again shor outside rays and a very round edge. You want to look for very long and straight outside rays. That tail should look like a "D" Anal on this fish is level but you see how the bottom outside tail ray is short compared to that anal? That is lack of length. the dorsal has some branching but has not real size. That reduced dorsal and tail and the short body lends itself to the RT in her genetics. Do not be surprised to find misaligned scales in offspring if you cross to a heavy branched male also border line RT.

Color she is a bi-color but that white edge must be bred out and that condition of the ratty fins corrected. You sometimes get that rattieness with that white edge no matter how good the water quality. Condnition and that white edge are faults.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Ah, thank you! You honestly don't have to continue, though it's incredibly kind of you. If I am able to find a site where I can learn more, that will be enough.

I'm new to this hobby and am completely enamored of it. I'm also reasonable and intelligent enough to know that I'd be stupid to try to jump right into any showing or breeding without considerably more knowledge. It's the knowledge I'm looking for, so I really appreciate your helpfulness.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Multi fish in cup:
She is super delta at best. VERY shor rays on the outside. Sure, some branching but not consistent and she is not where close to a "D" in shape. Better length on this female. Hard to see toplines in these cups t hough.

Dorsal you have the sh ort spike for first rats. Good length but it does not tie into a good tail. Anal is sloped and fins too long for my taste in a female. Color she is multi, and not a good one. You want to see three color and equal representation of them in the fish to be competitive. She is more blue/green without out good srpead irid and soe red wash to her. Could be a hint of BF type banding, but without it in the other fins.. probably will not get any good pattern on those lines.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Hopefully the review will get you looking for some things you had not considered. I am all about education as it has taken me a few years to get here. Hope to help others get there a bit quicker. And the reviews will help others as well. Bettas are fun, pet or show. They have a lot of personality. This section is for kicking it up a notch and breeding to the IBC standard. It is a high standard and to be a good breeder you have to be a bit rutheless in evaluating your fish and others. THere is a learning curve. I spent a bunch of money on AB and have tried to stay away lest I be tempted. But I tend to do regular reviews on my FB page when the quality of fish present themselves on AB. I do not post bad examples but the good ones.. and tell you what is good and what I'd work on improving as a breeder. From that you learn.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I suppose it's just a different way of thinking: To me, posting pictures one right after another and asking for evaluations would have seemed honestly impolite--as though I was asking other people to spend their time on something I wanted for myself, for my own benefit. The whole "Give a man a fish...Teach a man to fish" thing.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you! I really appreciate it. 

I lived in SA for a number of years. Nice place!


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Well.. maybe. But you can see the faults pointed out in one apply to the others. They are pretty females and a lot of color. If you want to breed show quality, you will need to decide on a color. And solids are pretty much the standard. Then you have bi-color, marbles/grizzles and the multi. But a multi is not something that does not fit the others, a good one has their own standard and it too is a high standard.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

You also need to watch for when I get rid of fish. I sell much nicer fish for about $20. And when I need to dump fish they can be had for about $5/each. They are my culls.. no doubt. But they have a bit of red wash or some other color fault. Or the branching is not consistent. BUT.. they have beed bred, often, for generations to have level anals, good spread and branching and more. You can go a lot further on my or another good breeders culls than what you can get on AB most times. You have to be ready when the good ones come as it not not often.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh, I absolutely think the reviews are enormously helpful! Thank you very much. I simply wouldn't have felt comfortable asking for them outright.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

If it isn't considered impolite, then what do you think of this "green monster" girl?







She looks so much like the "Big Monster" I got off Aquabid, and I keep going back to look at her.


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