# a pond? possible? please help!



## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

i am starting a 22 gallon indoor pond!

the residents contain one beautiful veil tail butterfly betta!

hmm he is overall healthy only get a couple rips when he flare too much(rubbermaid came to help:lol!

so my idea is to make this as natural as possible including a bunch of live plants(not native...not a biotope(i wish i could!!!))

so got some collected woods and a water fall probably some leaves but not so much... so i have these bunch of leaves, what do u guys think? any ideas on aquascape? thanks guys!


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## 206Betta (Jan 28, 2016)

Not sure what kind of look you want for your tank but, I think the leaves in the foreground. Collected woods/leaves in the mid-ground, and the waterfall in the background would look pretty good.


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

thanks for reply!

i am going to have rubbermaid tank so basically it would be not seen.


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## Rooster14250 (Feb 1, 2015)

Cool! Keep us updated. You might want to get a heater to keep the temp at 76-80 degrees. A lillypad would really look nice. Most garden stores that have a pond section should have some aquatic plants to look at. Post a pic of your betta too!


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

thanks!

i actually have tons of live plants! garden store has lily pads? cool i will check it out!

while i have the ten running i Do have a 50 watts heater, submergible and ready to use!


can anybody show their betta tank at natural tank?

mimic the wild life!


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

okay so i got the soil (miracle gro) and washed the tank, anybody know how to dirt and cap a walstad tank? [email protected]


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## FinsnFeathers (Jan 10, 2015)

Remove all the larger wood chunks from the dirt by straining it on some mesh or screen. Put the dirt in the tank and get it to a muddy consistency and cap it with sand or gravel or whatever. You could have a 1:1 ratio of dirt to cap, but I like to use more cap than dirt (1:2 ratio). When I had a thinner cap it would make a huge(er) mess when I uprooted plants. Also, if you have a tone of dirt it can become anaerobic.


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

thanks!

one more question!

i found out the organic soil of miracle gro is green package? is that any different from the...red package? thanks!


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

can some body help me?

my soil start to float! and no soil sinks to the bottom! what can i do? please help!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

The green package of Miracle Gro is just a remake of the old one, it's fine. I'm currently using it in a 2.5g snail and shrimp tank just fine. It does turn anaerobic so you're going to have to keep poking the substrate regularly to release gas, especially if you don't have plants with large root systems.

I recommend reading this thread if you haven't already:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575

Very useful~

If your Betta is in the pond already with all that soil floating around, I recommend you remove him to a separate container, drain the pond/tank, and then fill with soil and try again. How much cap over your soil and what kind of capping substrate did you use? I find Miracle Gro to be fairly light and floats easily but you should be able to just strain the excess.


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

Dalloway said:


> The green package of Miracle Gro is just a remake of the old one, it's fine. I'm currently using it in a 2.5g snail and shrimp tank just fine. It does turn anaerobic so you're going to have to keep poking the substrate regularly to release gas, especially if you don't have plants with large root systems.
> 
> I recommend reading this thread if you haven't already:
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575
> ...





okay, thanks for the reply!

firstly, i am trying to wash the soil...(and put a bucket of gravel in for...stuipd reasons...) and now what should i do? drain out the water?(betta is currently in his 10 gallon home(as usual))

and now my dad is figuring out the heater problem but my plants are dying in the ten!(cause they are floating!) and not enough nutrients...:-( so...firstly my plan is:

tomorrow drain out the water, push the soil down. found AS MANY AS POSSIBLE gravels that dumbly poured in...and cap them with some gravel. BUT some of the parts i don't want to cap because...of aquscapes... 


and then i wait for a day, then pour half the water slowly, drain out, in for 2 times... leave the water...

repeat it for three days.

put live plants in and every decorations...

over a week put the cycled filter in, three days(or more) fish move in...

and over another week, start building leopard gecko area up connecting the pond(another story don't worry).


is this a good idea? thanks!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

You don't need to wash the soil. That's just going to waste a lot of it.
If you're using large gravel, I find that Miracle Gro comes through way too easily. I'm currently topping about an inch to a half inch of the Mircale Gro with a minimum of an inch of fine sand from Home Depot and even so the soil's creeping up as you can see on the corner of the tank in the image below:










(Sorry for the blurry shot, this tank's on the floor and hard to reach because it's in-between the support beams of a stand.)
I'd be worried if you don't cap it that there's going to be way too much excess nutrients leeching into the water causing issues all over. It's been about a year since I've set this tank up and the soil still releases NH3/NO3 if I mess with it. I'd be worried for the fish too. Betta are top feeders but in my experience every Betta I've had would still sift through the substrate in between feedings looking for extra morsels and personally I wouldn't want that soil going anywhere near their mouths. One of the ones I have now is so bad he'd eat the sand as well (he's a bit special ;;..).

In terms of prep, if you drain it and put the wet and sifted soil in then cap it; if you slowly add in water while using a plate or newspaper to cover the area where the water is being poured over there's very little disturbance and very little of the soil is raised and left to float. I always let it settle, take out the floating sediments either via a mechanical filter or just scoop them out and then just add my livestock if I have a lot of plants already. I suppose if your plants are in bad shape and need time to recover waiting may be more prudent but once the plants take off and once you can tell ammonia/nitrates level are manageable it's safe to put in the fish. The filter you can add in right away, there should be plenty of food for your bacteria.

I've taken care of reptiles before... It is not a good idea to put a leopard gecko permanently in a pond type setting. I know you can teach them to swim over time but... You might want to reconsider or at least choose a reptile species that's tropical. (And they will eat the fish if they can get to them, especially if you choose a species that's used to tropics/water so I'd recommend corralling off the fish and reptile section with some craft mesh or something similar)


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

well, thanks for informations.

i decided that i will not make the lizard beside the fish tank...

the lizard will drink water from a dried water fall(well when it is empty i add water...duh)


so here is my progress so far:

capped almost(half) area with pea gravels, and drained out most of the water( almost no water actually) and tomorrow gonna cap 'em all out.

sorry but can't see the picture?(it is not loading up...)

so any way i will finish capping tomorrow(yes, cover them all the things, well the cap will be about 1 inch thick at most...) and wait one day, slowly add the water.

i am worrying about the miracle Gro thing floating... is there any way to get rid of that?(scared...the first time with this dirt tank...the first and probably the last...lol)
i won't be planting too much plants in there and biolod is not high too..

shall i put in the filter first while the ten running?(fish in there remember...) 

or just when i set 'em up then put the filter in?

do i have to redo the nitrogen cycle again? as i have an already cycled filter and gravel bed...so??? maybe three days? before introducing the fish? thanks!

generally just a couple shrimps and three guppies with two fry...n a betta, hows that? not too much biolod for the tank.\

as this is my first dirt tank, i really want to make sure what am i doing is not off...

thanks for helping!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

You don't have to wait to add water after capping if you don't need to, it's best to moisten the soil, cap, (I personally add in a 3rd step here which is to use a fine spray water bottle to fill the cap until water is level with the top of the subsrate) and then fill.

There's definitely going to be at least a little floating, it's a bit inevitable with dirt tanks ^^;. But if you use my recommendations (either a newspaper or flat dish or plastic covering the area where you're pouring the water over and pour VERY slowly), it should be very little that floats. For pea sized gravel I'd personally recommend a minimum of a 1 inch cap over 1 inch of soil, it's easier for the soil to escape through the cracks of pea gravel than sand.

If you're not planting a lot, I would advise you to not use soil on the whole tank then, just on the areas you're planting. This soil releases a LOT of nutrients in my experience.

If you have a cycled filter, I'd just move it over to the pond container when you move the fish over. It's up to you when to move them but I'd personally move the 2 over when ammonia/nitrates in the 20g don't climb over 25ppm a week after a water change. 

If you're going to add shrimp and guppy with fry it may be a good idea to plant more or reconsider. The Betta may eat the fry/shrimp.


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

thanks!


lets say my planting is medium.

as i have hornworts and bacopa 9yes a lot of them died...

and red ludwigas,...etc.

i am sorry but don't know what do u mean by: 2? i only have one filter and that is the cycled one and i will use that one.

and i unfortunately had finished cap...so there is no point that i am removing them back...lol


but keep adding plants i will.


i guess that this will work(at least i hope so...haha)


so i will wait(yes spray) the water and moisten them as i keep going.

thanks for ur help!

i will keep update!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

I meant if you planned on keeping it lightly planted permanently it would have been a good idea to limit the soil only to the areas you're planting. I had misunderstood and thought you only wanted very little plants. 
But those plants you've picked grow rather quickly so you can propagate them easily (You can cut them at the stems above the leaves and plant the tops. The bottom half that was cut will grow two new split ends and the top half can be planted and will grow roots). So once they acclimate you should be able to get the container relatively full quickly c:. And yeah, if you already capped it's a lot of work to redo lol.

Oh by 2 I was including the filter and the fish both ^^'. I meant to say you should do extra water changes in the beginning if you need to to get rid of any ammonia released by the soil. When you move the filter over, if there's only minimal ammonia after a few days of not doing any water changes in the 20g it's likely safe to add the Betta as well as long as you keep checking the water for ammonia/nitrate regularly.

And hey, no problem, I'm happy to share my experience if it helps~


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

ah...

comfort...lol FINALLY finished my biotope aquascape!(did not follow my plan as usual!)
and THE FIRST time i am KIND of satisfied!

only thing is leaf litters...cant find any!(or, in another word...umm...too lazy to do so..lol) so tomorrow i will take a break(yes, kind of i wanna to..so yeah...) 

yeah! FINALLY! thank you guys for ur awesome help! so glad to join this forum!

as usual, i will keep update!


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

hey guys!

me again, can i ask a simple question that are related to fish health?

okay, so before i go out and die... 

firstly: i wanna put some life litters in my tank, do i have to find a SPECIFIC ones? or am i good for ANY kind of broad leaf litters? can i have dried, dead, leaves AND fresh leaves? thanks!


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

quick update! the tank is going well, just a bit too much pest snails!!!!


the hornworts are growing! so fast! but idk what is wrong with the red ludwiga, they are dying~!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

thepianoguy said:


> hey guys!
> 
> me again, can i ask a simple question that are related to fish health?
> 
> ...


Definitely recommend against fresh leaves, dried are better. Oak, Japanese maple, Indian almond and banana leaves I know are safe but there are some tree species that aren't so be sure that you can not only determine what tree you're collecting from (and ask if you don't know if they're safe) but also whether or not things like pesticides are used in the area.

Can you describe how the ludwigia are dying? Do they have pinholes? Are they yellowing?


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## thepianoguy (Feb 6, 2016)

i know it is a bit long time now. but the ludwiga is doing fine now, i rescpaed the whole thing and it is quite good now with additional mosses! the temples are growing so tall the only problem is that whatever i try, the food method,etc PEST SNAILS WONT go away!


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## Nuggette (Aug 3, 2015)

Assassin snails will clear 'em up and not breed crazily.


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