# Substrate suggestions



## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Looking for substrate suggestions. I want to rescape my planted tank and possibly add more plants. It originally didn't start out as a planted tank. I accidentally got addicted. =) so at the moment I have some gravel at the bottom. I was okay with it for a long time but now i want something different. I want something that looks more natural and is better for my plants. 

So.. Suggestions?

I have heard of fluorite and Eco complete. Pros cons of both? Do you have to change the soil every so often?

I also read about the Walstad method for like organic soils.
Is this less efficient then buying some soil for the aquarium?

Thanks


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

I use eco complete. It is a high CEC substrate (meaning it holds nutrients very well). It never needs to be replaced. It is basically crushed lava rock with a few additives of other types.

The downside to it is that if you have to adjust your plants while the tank is filled, it is almost as annoying as gravel - except that it's generally lighter than gravel, so it's even more annoying.

If I use Eco Complete again, I will cap it with sand to make planting a little easier - but it's way better than sand alone.

Organic soils are good, they need a cap as well to keep the water from clouding up. They generally cause a huge ammonia spike at the beginning, so hardy plants and NO FISH while cycling. 

Flourite, I believe, breaks down over time if I remember correctly, but I have not used it.

My next tank will either use eco complete with a sand cap, or soil with a sand cap.


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Eco complete was my first choice from what research I had done. That's probably what I'll go for then. As for a Sand cap.. I could use pool filter sand? Would that add much stress to the filter? I have a prefilter on the intake. From what you said it sounds like planting can be a pain? Honestly planting this one with gravel was frustrating in itself lol. Sorry I'm all over the place. Bit scatterbrained today =)


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Pool filter sand is fine. It doesn't need as much rinsing as other sands. 

The sand will make it easier to plant when the tank is full. The problem with planting just eco while the tank is full is that it's very light, so it wants to not fill in around the plant. Sand takes care of that. Actually, if my planted tank that has eco in it wasn't so full of plants, I'd probably fill in sand around it right now. As it is, I think I'd hurt the plants and/or smother my shrimp, lol.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I have been doing organic soil, then a thin layer of playsand/poolfilter sand like 1/8 to 1/4 inch of it to act as a filter for the soil then some gravel, it really depnds on what kinds of fish are in the tank, if you have diggers you might want to use the craft cloth over the soil to keep over active diggers like my pleco out of the soil


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Since this thread is up I'll go ahead and ask myself...

I'm going to be doing the Walstad method. I'm between three brands and four types for potting mix. Miracle Gro Organic Choice, Jobe's Organic Bone Meal, Jobe's Organic Fast Start and Black Gold Organic Mix. This'll be just for the plants, then I'll try to get about an inch or something of sand on top of it. They'll be low-light plants, Amazon Sword, Anubias on a stick and anything else I can find.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Be aware that the Walstad method and other soil based tanks, generally require you to be using fast growing stem plants and floaters to suck up excess nutrients at the start. Otherwise, if you are only using low light plants such as swords and anubias, you may see spikes in ammonia etc. because these plants do not grow at a rate where they are going to need to be taking up a lot of nutrients. 

If you are just doing low light plants, you could just use root tabs under a gravel or sand substrate. Anubias requires essentially no care, and I actually had very good success with growing sword plants in propagating sand with root tabs added. 

Just something to keep in mind.

Otherwise I use Miracle Gro Organic Choice and have had no complaints.


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Alrighty. I did a quick Google and found that it's usually a calcium/phos/other nut deficiency that makes the need for tabs... Looking at the sparse descs on the potting mixes, the Bone Meal one lists specifically calc/phos on it. Do they have a sort of "ingredient list" that one could compare?


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## ashleigheperry (Mar 1, 2013)

*Help me with my tank(s)?*

I've been looking for substrate options as well - this is very helpful. c:


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Okay, so after a quick trip to the nearby Ace, I left with a large back of EarthGro and a thing of Miracle Gro Potting Mix (Organic of course). Is this safe to combine for both the plants and the fish?


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

2 suggestions on using soil.. ok 3

1. use an old plastic strainer (spagetti style) and strain the soil. (look at my thread below, for a picture as to why in the first post) Twigs can release a LOT of tannin
2. Don't use ANY soil with Pearlite (spelling?) the little white balls that keep it light and fluffy.. 
3. Have a clue as to where you want your plants. Research your plants ahead of time. I put dwarf sag in my NPT and they have huge roots (almost as bad as swords) and they spread, like wild fire and I still have them poping up. When you go to move plants you will disturb the soil. I removed mine because they were EVERYWHERE.

Ok a 4th tip - Use sand as a cap. I recommend pool filter sand. It's heavier than play sand and needs almost NO rinsing. But with a NPT you can't do what I do with new tanks (add sand, add water, drain water, add water, drain water, add and done) .. Little to no dust. I'd recommend rinsing in a 5 gallon bucket.. put in your amt of sand (maybe place in aquarium first to know the amt?) and then dump into a bucket and give a quick rinse.. Play sand can take up to hours to rinse. It's very dusty and plain light brown (tan) and pool filter sand has dark specks and looks more natural. Play sand usually runs $4-8/50lbs (lowes and home depot) and pool filter sand runs about $12/50lbs and is available at Spa/Pool supply stores. If you get the pool filter sand the bag might have small slits in it. Bring a bucket for transport or it'll get all over your car

Here is my 5.5 journal.. btw the dwarf sag is planted on the left in the first couple tank pictures

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=127007


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

Crap a 5th tip came to mind after edit time was up:

If using sand and a walstad tank (soil/sand) get trumpet snails. Yeah they're livebearers but they breed slowly. Easy to remove (they are slow and love veggies so easy to bait) and they will stir the sand and make all the bubbles pop. These bubbles if left to themselves can kill fish and make the soil go anaerobic and you'll have to start over


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Oooh, thanks much for the tips!

I would get trumpets, but I've already got a mystery, and she can't stay in her little 1gal or 1 1/2 gal forever. Would banded loaches stir the sand enough in place of the trumpets? I've heard they love to root around in sand.


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

IMO They dig, and dig deep. I've seen videos of small loaches that made nice 3 inch deep substrate into a bare bottom tank in a 30 gallon.. If you can't do snails then what you'll want to do is get something long and pokey (I use bamboo skewers) and gently poke at the sand yourself. I don't know mystery snails all that well. You'll want a snail that is good at eating dead plant matter and algae


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Eek, correction to that, banded/striped _kuhli_ loach. I'm used to referring to them simply as loaches even though I've got what I want in my siggy. Do you know if they tend to do this as well? =\


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

yeap they dig. It's the reason I didn't dirt my 20 or 46 gallon. How big is the tank you're dirting?


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

It's an Aqueon 10. Woulda gotten a 20 but we didn't have quite that much when the sale was going on (but barely managed to get the 10). From what I figure for planting it, about 2" for the mix then maybe about 1" in sand. Or is that too much in total for the substrate?


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

Seems perfectly fine to me.. I would suggest 1.5 and 1.5 myself

You should be ok if it's just the betta putting the snail and a couple MTS in there. The MTS would be hidden during the day mostly.. and if you think there's too many drop a blanched pea or a piece of lettuce at lights out.. if you're up late before bed, flick on the light and there should be a bunch. Put them in the trash with the leaf. I did this and got 5 out of my 6 adults since they had some babies  I had 6 to start and I've only seen maybe 6 babies since I set up my tank like 2 months ago


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