# Aggressive gourami?



## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

I changed my 10 to a 29-gallon aquarium with my gourami and neon tetras and cities. I added a pleco, some ottos, and some shrimp, but for the past weeks since I had the tank he has taken half the tank as his territory and will chase anything in this zone out. I want it to work out with all of my fish and 5 shrimps but I worry he will he to aggressive as he chases the neons out of his half of the tank constantly. Should I rehome him?


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

There are many species of gouramis, some more prone to aggression than others. Blue Gourami (aka Three-Spot Gourami) males can be especially territorial. Which species do you have?


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

imaal said:


> There are many species of gouramis, some more prone to aggression than others. Blue Gourami (aka Three-Spot Gourami) males can be especially territorial. Which species do you have?


It's a flame dwarf gourami, idk if the little bits of territorial is from the move and will calm down as he didn't do this much in the 10 gallon. He doesn't seem interested in the shrimp as he has gone right up to the shrimp with no issue.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Dwarf Gouramis are generally docile so I think this has more to do with the transition and he's setting the ground rules in his new territory. I bet he'll settle. Has he ever had a mate? Like bettas, DGs tend to be more at ease in thickly planted environs but unlike bettas they're not loners and a mate might also help.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

imaal said:


> Dwarf Gouramis are generally docile so I think this has more to do with the transition and he's setting the ground rules in his new territory. I bet he'll settle. Has he ever had a mate? Like bettas, DGs tend to be more at ease in thickly planted environs but unlike bettas they're not loners and a mate might also help.


I just worry adding another of his kind will stress out the other fish


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I believe if we can't meet a critter's needs it is not a kindness to keep them. I guess your only options are to see how the others react, give him and his companion another tank or rehome. By no means easy choices.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

I agree with @RussellTheShihTzu. Obviously, you have to do what you're comfortable with, but if you got him a mate he's going to pay a lot more attention to her, and she to him, than either will to neons and otos. Gouramis are social and not meant to be kept alone. And pairs of Dwarf Gouramis, indeed all kinds of gouramis, have been fixtures in community aquariums for over a century.

If you do get him a mate, you should know that any female of any of the Dwarf Gourami color variants--Flame, Blue, Red, Neon or Wild--will do. They are all the same species. All but the wild are man-made color variants of the wild form, _Trichogaster lalius. _"Sunset" and "Honey," however, are variants of other species, _T, labiosa_ and _T. chuna_ respectively.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

imaal said:


> I agree with @RussellTheShihTzu. Obviously, you have to do what you're comfortable with, but if you got him a mate he's going to pay a lot more attention to her, and she to him, than either will to neons and otos. Gouramis are social and not meant to be kept alone. And pairs of Dwarf Gouramis, indeed all kinds of gouramis, have been fixtures in community aquariums for over a century.
> 
> If you do get him a mate, you should know that any female of any of the Dwarf Gourami color variants--Flame, Blue, Red, Neon or Wild--will do. They are all the same species. All but the wild are man-made color variants of the wild form, _Trichogaster lalius. _"Sunset" and "Honey, however, " are variants of other species, _T, labiosa_ and _T. chuna_ respectively.


Will they still attack shrimp? And how do I properly sex them so I know if the fish I have is a male or female so I know the right mate for them?


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

aidan_1549 said:


> Will they still attack shrimp? And how do I properly sex them so I know if the fish I have is a male or female so I know the right mate for them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And would java moss help keep my shrimps alive.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

aidan_1549 said:


> And would java moss help keep my shrimps alive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To be honest, I haven't even seem the gourami take interest in the shrimps so maybe I don't need to worry about them.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

aidan_1549 said:


> Will they still attack shrimp? And how do I properly sex them so I know if the fish I have is a male or female so I know the right mate for them?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Someone else will have to address the shrimp question--I've never kept any.

Dwarf Gouramis are what we call sexually dichromatic, that is, the males and females of the species are colored differently. In this case the males get all the color and the females are far less colored by comparison. Many of the big chain stores only carry males for this reason. Many, but not all.

Here's a wild female. Flame females might have some more brownish-red on them but nothing compared to the vivid colors of your male.










Now compare that with a wild male:










I don't think you'll have any trouble sorting out gender for these.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Shrimp with any fish (except, perhaps, Oto) is a crapshoot. If there's enough planting it's pretty hard for a larger fish to maneuver around obstacles to catch shrimp. Without enough planting there are open lines of sight and chase not so much. Unless compromised, shrimp are really fast.

Know that nothing is black and white in the aquarium hobby when it comes to behavior. Too many things we do or do not do influence the outcome.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Shrimp with any fish (except, perhaps, Oto) is a crapshoot. If there's enough planting it's pretty hard for a larger fish to maneuver around obstacles to catch shrimp. Without enough planting there are open lines of sight and chase not so much. Unless compromised, shrimp are really fast.
> 
> Know that nothing is black and white in the aquarium hobby when it comes to behavior. Too many things we do or do not do influence the outcome.


I have lots of lush plants they can hide in and they are small. I also have java moss on order as I've heard its good with shrimp and small fish.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

aidan_1549 said:


> I have lots of lush plants they can hide in and they are small. I also have java moss on order as I've heard its good with shrimp and small fish.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But so far so good, the gourami is fed we'll and has gone right up to the shrimp without him trying to eat them. 


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

Anyone know what shrimp this is?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Looks like a Black Rili. It's a Neocaridina. If he's blue he's a Blue Rili.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

imaal said:


> Someone else will have to address the shrimp question--I've never kept any.
> 
> Dwarf Gouramis are what we call sexually dichromatic, that is, the males and females of the species are colored differently. In this case the males get all the color and the females are far less colored by comparison. Many of the big chain stores only carry males for this reason. Many, but not all.
> 
> ...


I‘ve been looking for a female to go with my male and I cant find one anywhere. smaller LFS only have the males also.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Looks like a Black Rili. It's a Neocaridina. If he's blue he's a Blue Rili.


The morning after I got the shrimps they are all still alive so it's looking good, as j have a lush plant they can hide in that none of the other fish can get to.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Kat50 said:


> I‘ve been looking for a female to go with my male and I cant find one anywhere. smaller LFS only have the males also.


They can order them; they just don't. If you have a good relationship with a LFS person, you can request they order a few females in their next shipment. 

Also, there are on-line options if you google 'female Dwarf Gourami for sale'. There are even some on ebay now and there have been listings on aquabid in the past. The issue there is the shipping cost. But if you order from a place like www.wetspottropicalfish.com you can shop for other fish, inverts, plants and suppllies to justify the shipping. They have females at the moment. They're in Portland, OR. And they are an excellent outfit.

Finally, look closely at those tanks of dwarfs in shops. Females sometimes slip in. In fact, I saw an entire tank of dwarf females labelled Neon Blues at a Petsmart. When I inquired with the clerk she said, "Geez. You're right. They must have been sent by mistake."


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

imaal said:


> They can order them; they just don't. If you have a good relationship with a LFS person, you can request they order a few females in their next shipment.
> 
> Also, there are on-line options if you google 'female Dwarf Gourami for sale'. There are even some on ebay now and there have been listings on aquabid in the past. The issue there is the shipping cost. But if you order from a place like www.wetspottropicalfish.com you can shop for other fish, inverts, plants and suppllies to justify the shipping. They have females at the moment. They're in Portland, OR. And they are an excellent outfit.
> 
> Finally, look closely at those tanks of dwarfs in shops. Females sometimes slip in. In fact, I saw an entire tank of dwarf females labelled Neon Blues at a Petsmart. When I inquired with the clerk she said, "Geez. You're right. They must have been sent by mistake."


Thanks. Is it batter to get 2 females for the one male or just one is needed


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kat50 said:


> Thanks. Is it batter to get 2 females for the one male or just one is needed


Can you send the pictures of the genders of flame dwarf vourami 


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Kat50 said:


> Thanks. Is it batter to get 2 females for the one male or just one is needed


Some feel a trio is better since it diffuses the male's pursuit of just one female. The flip side is females, like males, will test each other for dominance. But no harm is really ever done.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

aidan_1549 said:


> Can you send the pictures of the genders of flame dwarf vourami
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here ya go. This female has an issue behind her gill, which is why the owner posted the photo, but she's is identified by her owner as Flame. Few photos of female dwarfs are identified by color variant because the females all look pretty much alike. And remember, it doesn't make a difference what color variant female you get. They're all the same species and the males do not disciminate.

Don't sweat this. There are few species where the gender distinction is more obvious!


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

imaal said:


> Some feel a trio is better since it diffuses the male's pursuit of just one female. The flip side is females, like males, will test each other for dominance. But no harm is really ever done.


Thanks, I’m going to start looking for a female or two after I figure out what is going on with my tank. Here is my neon dwarf. And of course my angel photo bombed the pic.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

imaal said:


> Here ya go. This female has an issue behind her gill, which is why the owner posted the photo, but she's is identified by her owner as Flame. Few photos of female dwarfs are identified by color variant because the females all look pretty much alike. And remember, it doesn't make a difference what color variant female you get. They're all the same species and the males do not disciminate.
> 
> Don't sweat this. There are few species where the gender distinction is more obvious!
> 
> ...


Will they breed?


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

If you put a male and female together of any species there's always that possibility. But in a community setting, no young will survive.


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

imaal said:


> If you put a male and female together of any species there's always that possibility. But in a community setting, no young will survive.


For my case of a 29 gallon, would one female be ok


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

aidan_1549 said:


> For my case of a 29 gallon, would one female be ok
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And do you know where I can buy a female flame


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Sure. A pair is fine. Regarding where to buy, see my earlier post.

And again, you do not need a female Flame. You just need a female.


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## BettaLove723 (Jun 2, 2021)

aidan_1549 said:


> I changed my 10 to a 29-gallon aquarium with my gourami and neon tetras and cities. I added a pleco, some ottos, and some shrimp, but for the past weeks since I had the tank he has taken half the tank as his territory and will chase anything in this zone out. I want it to work out with all of my fish and 5 shrimps but I worry he will he to aggressive as he chases the neons out of his half of the tank constantly. Should I rehome him?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had 2 beta’s, and I had them in a tank together because


aidan_1549 said:


> I changed my 10 to a 29-gallon aquarium with my gourami and neon tetras and cities. I added a pleco, some ottos, and some shrimp, but for the past weeks since I had the tank he has taken half the tank as his territory and will chase anything in this zone out. I want it to work out with all of my fish and 5 shrimps but I worry he will he to aggressive as he chases the neons out of his half of the tank constantly. Should I rehome him?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had 2 female betas together, after doing research it was ok. I had a divider at one point, but they’d go over and keep chasing each other and doing what you are describing. My opinion is that you should consider getting seperate tanks, I had to just get 2 smaller tanks instead of the split 10 gallon. This is just what I had to do, maybe your situation is different, but I hope it helps!


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

BettaLove723 said:


> I had 2 beta’s, and I had them in a tank together because
> 
> I had 2 female betas together, after doing research it was ok. I had a divider at one point, but they’d go over and keep chasing each other and doing what you are describing. My opinion is that you should consider getting seperate tanks, I had to just get 2 smaller tanks instead of the split 10 gallon. This is just what I had to do, maybe your situation is different, but I hope it helps!


They aren’t bettas. Totally different fish and behavior but thanks for your comment!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I believe Bettas and Gouramis come from the same scientific family, _Osphronemidae. _They share similar behaviors, are known to be aggressive and territorial, are labyrinth fish and can also be bubble nesters.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

So excited my local fish store is going to order female gouramis. I’m still waiting on panda corys to come in. They said they have been having a hard time getting them.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Kat50 said:


> So excited my local fish store is going to order female gouramis. I’m still waiting on panda corys to come in. They said they have been having a hard time getting them.


I was hoping that would be the outcome if you asked your LFS to order them. Female DGs are almost always on the wholesalers' lists but are seldom ordered by the retailers. A pity that the males they order and sell never get to live out anything resembling a normal existence.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

I was wanting to get 2 females and another male but I guess that is out. I read if you have a well planted tank and more than 29 gallons you could do it. Do you think it would be a bad idea with a planted 36 gallon tank? If a bad idea I will just get the 2 females.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

What's the footprint of the 36g?


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

imaal said:


> What's the footprint of the 36g?


It’s a 36 bow front.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

I've never kept more than a pair in one tank...of any size. You could try it, but only if you had a b-plan at the ready if it didn't work out.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

imaal said:


> I've never kept more than a pair in one tank...of any size. You could try it, but only if you had a b-plan at the ready if it didn't work out.


Ok thanks I will stay with the one female or two and not get another male. Ive ventured out and this time around in my fish keeping I am getting fish I never had before. Bettas and Dwarf gourami. I have has kissing gourami and 3 spotted way back. This is when you either had to read about fish keeping in books or you trusted your lfs about what can go with what.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

imaal said:


> I've never kept more than a pair in one tank...of any size. You could try it, but only if you had a b-plan at the ready if it didn't work out.


Agreed, I like having a pair but I've never done any more than the two together. I currently have a single honey gourami I took in from a friend. She had him in a 5 gallon with 3 neon tetras and 2 black skirts. I am in the process of building a 40 gal community tank so I may get him a girlfriend and put them in there, or I will find him a new home. He's only been with me about a month but I like him a lot


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Well I may now be getting a 29 long tank that has been sitting empty at my brothers. He wants a bigger tank and start fish keeping again. Just got done reading on another site that there needs to be a ratio of 2 females to 1 male. So the male doesn’t pester the female all the time.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

Kat50 said:


> Well I may now be getting a 29 long tank that has been sitting empty at my brothers. He wants a bigger tank and start fish keeping again. Just got done reading on another site that there needs to be a ratio of 2 females to 1 male. So the male doesn’t pester the female all the time.


There's debate about that since there can be same-sex aggression among females as well, as we know from bettas. But your tank is large enough and well-planted so you should be okay.


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