# Help, Stahl is Becoming A Skeleton!



## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Stahl is getting worse and worse with whatever is wrong with him. He has always had this little scale problem on his back and has acting droopy since I got him about 3 months ago. (Though droopy is his personality).
But lately he has been losing more and more weight and is acting weird. He has been just floating at the surface and does not swim around much. He still eats though.
Here is a progression of photos starting from when I brought him home to just a few minutes ago.
First day I got him:








End of December:








A few weeks ago:








A few minutes ago:








(He is not bloated, he is just soo skinny that you can see his stomache really well.)


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

omg.... poor boy! ;A; could he possibly have parasites? how's his poops? reminds me alot of my boy, Hyde, though Hyde's not nearly as skinny as your poor boy. parasites are the only thing i can think of, that would make him lose THAT much weight, but still eat.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Oh my goodness! ;-; He looks grotesque.  

Parasites sounds like a pretty good assessment...

 Poor Stahl!


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Well he is in the same tank with Pug and Pug seems perfectly healthy. And he has been in that tank with Pug long enough where I would think Pug would be sick too.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

He might have fish tuberculosis...


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Is that not contagious? To Pug and I?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i thought with fish TB, they got lumpy? and all bent outta shape? o.0 he's just horridly skinny...


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

It's not so contagious to other fish if the fish has a strong immune system. And since they're not in direct contact...

Humans can get it through cuts. It's not the same as human TB and usually only causes lesions.

http://www.petfish.net/kb/entry/170/

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/tbc.php

"The main symptoms of fish tuberculosis are loss of scales, loss of color, lesions on the body, wasting, and skeletal deformities such as curved spines."


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

kfish said:


> It's not so contagious to other fish if the fish has a strong immune system. And since they're not in direct contact...
> 
> Humans can get it through cuts. It's not the same as human TB and usually only causes lesions.
> 
> ...


but none of those symptoms fit the poor boy. he just wasted away. Parasites seems to make more sense to me. o.0


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I think it could be either, but the OP was concerned about contagiousness, so I gave another example that is less contagious. To me, it seems like he has most of those symptoms, or symptoms of internal parasites. Some sites specifically say that the symptoms are similar and sometimes it's impossible to tell the difference.

Fish TB can take 6+ months to kill a fish, over which time the fish will lose color and waste away. He has an obvious lesion on his back... and unless the first picture is completely deceiving, it looks like he used to be blue.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Well, his spine is kind of curved to where he swims weird. He also has never spread out his fins since I have had him. He also has this odd scale thing on his back, like his scales are growing in a different direction.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

kfish said:


> I think it could be either, but the OP was concerned about contagiousness, so I gave another example that is less contagious. To me, it seems like he has most of those symptoms, or symptoms of internal parasites. Some sites specifically say that the symptoms are similar and sometimes it's impossible to tell the difference.
> 
> Fish TB can take 6+ months to kill a fish, over which time the fish will lose color and waste away. He has an obvious lesion on his back... and unless the first picture is completely deceiving, it looks like he used to be blue.


He did used to be blue, but I just thought he was changing colours like some Bettas do.
Though an odd thing about it, his eyes used to be red and now they are yellow. Is that anything?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i say, try treating for parasites first. o.0 just to get that out of the way. not sure what to do about Pug, since he seems fine. my mind says, treat him too, just in case. x-X


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Not sure about color change, but...

"Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea."


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## peachesxo (Jan 20, 2011)

omgg that's so sad.
all i can think of is ... pm OldFishLady :shock:


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

kfish said:


> Not sure about color change, but...
> 
> "Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea."


 For TB?


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Aluyasha said:


> For TB?


Yes. :\

Treating for parasites wouldn't hurt, just in case. It really could be either... or something completely different.

I hope Pug continues to be okay. He must be a strong little guy.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

when Hyde started going down hill, first thing i did was start him on medicated pellets, in case it was something bacterial. when that failed, i treated him for parasites. again, nothing. i couldnt' think of what it could be, till i posted here. come to find out, a bin i'd housed him in for a bit poisoned him. ;A; he deteriorated, just like your boy, but isn't nearly as skinny. i hope you can find out what's making your boy ill, and hope he gets better. he's a trooper, if he's lasted this long.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

...shouldn't you seperate him for QT? o.o


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Marona said:


> ...shouldn't you seperate him for QT? o.o


 Well I thought he was just getting skinny from being old. Like how dogs lose weight with aging. (He has a white chin like older Bettas, and Walmart Bettas tend to be a little older)
I just thought to ask what you all thought.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I do have a 1 gallon ready for him, but I need to know what it might be and if I should treat Pug too. Then I could leave them in the same tank so I can treat them both.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

like i said, i'd try out treating him for parasites first. since Pug's in the same tank, it might be a good idea to treat them both. if he doesn't improve after a bit, then it's not parasites.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

How long should I treat him before ruling out parasites if he does not show signs of getting better?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Personally, if he didn't pick up fairly quickly I would consider euthanasia. At that point of emaciation, his internal organs would most likely be damaged, and he would obviously be suffering because of it.

I would definitely isolate him into a 1 gallon quarantine tank as soon as possible. Since at this point in time he needs to hold onto every little bit of energy that's available to him, I would drop the water level down as far as the heater allows and provide something for him to rest on.

It could be internal parasites or worms, so starting him on some medicated food or something similar could be all he needs to pull through. Then it would be a simple matter of fattening him up on some good quality food and making sure he maintains a healthy weight from then on. 

Also it's a fallacy that older animals should be skinny to the point of emaciation like that. It's advisable to keep older animals leaner to avoid excess strain on their bones and joints, but they should never have the appearance of being in the latter stages of starvation. 

Sending some healing vibes your way, but if it's passed beyond that point, I hope you have the strength to do what's right.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh my goodness. Poor baby! I hope he can pull through.


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## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

Good luck. I hope he makes it.


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

Aww the poor little guy.


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## ansalong (Nov 3, 2010)

Poor little guy! 

I know this has been said, but my first thought was parasites. If it is an internal parasite, I don't think they necessarily spread, and Pug may just not have it. Try medicating for parasites with food or dissolving tablets, and as other suggested, medicate the whole tank. My understanding is that anti parasite medication is not harmful if the fish doesn't end up having a parasite, so I'd go ahead and try it.

What does his poop look like? Is there any?


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## Sherleelee (Dec 19, 2010)

*Aww your poor boy! i have never seen a betta in such a state!! Hope you are able to help him* **


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

ansalong said:


> Poor little guy!
> 
> What does his poop look like? Is there any?


 I have not seen him poop for a while actually. But I do not know if he has not pooped or I am just missing it (because of the size of the tank and whatnot).


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Personally, if he didn't pick up fairly quickly I would consider euthanasia. At that point of emaciation, his internal organs would most likely be damaged, and he would obviously be suffering because of it.
> 
> I would definitely isolate him into a 1 gallon quarantine tank as soon as possible. Since at this point in time he needs to hold onto every little bit of energy that's available to him, I would drop the water level down as far as the heater allows and provide something for him to rest on.
> 
> ...


 I have euthanized one of my Bettas before and I will do it if that is necessary.

And I meant when he first was starting to look skinny I thought it might be age. I know it is not healthy for any animal to be as skinny as he is right now. That is why I made this thread.

I will put him in the 1 gallon today and start treatment.


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## ansalong (Nov 3, 2010)

Good luck! Let us know how he does.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Well so far he looks the same. But at least he is not getting any worse!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it won't happen over night. :3 keep up treatment, offer him food, keep things warm and clean, and he should start looking better in a few days or so. :d


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I hope so. I have been through alot with him. He is my ugly old man.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i'm in the same basic boat you are. my vt, Hyde, is ill. poisoned by my stupidity. D: only... i can't medicate him and hope for the best. all i can do, is make him as comfortable as possible while i wait... he gets spoiled way more than the rest. he gets extra pellets, and more water changes.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Not only have a been through alot with him but he also has a very unique personality. He is kind of...slow I guess . It is like he is not all there. Before he got sick, he liked to lay on the bottom of the tank and (literally) press his face against the divider so he could watch Pug swimming around. He also likes to just sit and 'get lost in thought'. And he is basically afraid of everything but takes forever to react to it.
He is just one special fish.


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## ansalong (Nov 3, 2010)

What a cutie. I have a special place in my heart for "slow" animals. One of my cats is kind of dumb, and I love them that way.

You've probably already done this, but if you can keep things dark or keep him in a low traffic area that might help his stress level too. Hopefully you'll start to see some kind of result in a few days like Luimeril suggests. 

He's lucky to have a special mommy!


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I will keep you all up to date on his health.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Good luck, I hope he improves. He sounds like a character.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes, I hope he improves! I know this kind of goes against a lot of things, but if he is that skinny, maybe you should be feeding him extra like 1 more pellet each day if he IS eating.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Well, so far I have been giving him 3 pellets a day. I did not know if I should give him more than that because I want to make sure he does not bloat.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Ya, that makes sense. Are you seeing any improvement?


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

So far, no. He seems the same.
At least he is not getting worse, I suppose.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Ya that is better than getting worse!


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Bad news. He is now refusing to eat.
...I had it in my head earlier that if he stopped eating then I was going to seriously consider euthanasia.
What do you guys think?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

try the garlic and the bloodworm tricks. soak pellets in garlic juice and offer it to him. if that doesn't work, try either live bloodworms or soaking the pellets in bloodworm juice.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes, I would try feeding him something other than plain old pellets. I would chop the worms down to pellet size and at least try to feed him.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

More bad news. I just went to check on him and he is floating at the surface on his side and breathing heavy.
Also his scales look as they are coming off and he is really pale.


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

aww the poor little guy


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I don't think I could ever euthanize a fish because I'd always be hoping it would get better... Do what you think is right.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I do not think he will get better. He is still breathing but his body looks long dead. Even if I gave him more or different meds I think he is too worn out and damaged to recover.
I am freezing a cup of water right now, I will euthanize him in a hour or so.
...My poor old man...


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## ansalong (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm so sorry Aluyasha.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

He was the uglyest and most droopy Betta at Walmart that 3 months ago. And, among my other Bettas, is still the uglyest, slowest Betta I have. 
He is a few cards short of a deck, personality wise. But I am going to miss that deck...
Poor Stahl, I just wished that he would have died in more of an old age/peaceful kind of way.
But that is his style I guess, always had to do things differently.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Poor thing  I have had to euthanize before. The ice-cold water method was quick.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Fortunatly, he is suffering no more...
R.I.P. My ugly old man.
You will now join my other passed Bettas, two mice, two ferrets, a hamster, three rats, and a ton of cats. (Not to mention my mom's and my sister's past pets)


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## ChicagoPete (Dec 27, 2010)

aww. :'( So Soory to here you had put him down. What ever was eating away at his body can no longer affect his poor sole.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

There, I just posted about him in the memorial section.


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

And, I just want to say, Thank you all for caring about Stahl's welfare and trying to help save him. I really appreciate it. 
It is comforting to know that other people care about a tiny fish that they never even met.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i love ALL bettas. i'm sorry he had to be euthed. D: poor fella. RIP, Stahl.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

Aww poor baby. But you did the right thing, he is suffering no more. RIP buddy.


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