# A better Life?



## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I decided recently to rescue 12 Betta's from my local walmart and petsmart. I was shocked at how terrible the Betta's are treated at walmart. They are all shoved way up under a dark shelf where no one can see them, and those little cups they come in were barely half full with water. I saw 2 dead Betta's, that had been dead at least 3 or 4 days, because the water looked like milk and the fish had started disintegrating. Really made me sad, and mad at the idiots who allow that to happen to the fish and never check on them. I took some of the Betta's to the sink and gave them more water. I am going to have a conversation with a manager about that soon.

Anyways, all of my 12 Betta's are in gallon sized bowls, tanks, and critter cages. They all have gravel and a small decoration or plant. A few of them have an LED light. But unfortunately, I don't have the funds to provide them with a heater or filter. But, I feel that I am giving them a much better life than they had in the pet store. They now have more water and swimming space and a plant or decoration to play in. Maybe one day I'll have the money to get bigger tanks with heaters and filters, but right now that is the best I can do for them.


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## a123andpoof (Apr 10, 2010)

12 bettas in 1 gallons is going to be a lot of upkeep. maybe if there is anyone you can trust you can give them a fish or two? As for the heating problem try and keep them in the warmest part of the house. If you have the space and can afford it I would also look into getting a ten or twenty gallon that can be divided. A ten gallon could be divided into 4 spaces while a twenty gallon around 8ish. And you would have less water changes. For heaters just buy one at a time as you get the money. Eventually you should have enough for all. Though if you can get a larger tank that can be divided you only need like 1 heater per like what 4 fish. (if in 10g.)


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Wow..I commend you for being so courageous!! I want to do the same ..I.. know I cant at this timeI can only imagine how difficult it was too see that..It would be best to put those feelings in writing in regards to what yu witnessed in walmart..it will be a bigger impact..I wish yu well in yur rescue efforts..sounds great so far..and when the right time comes get what you can..and go from thereGood Luck..when yu get a chance show us some pix of yur new family


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Also if some are female they can be housed together do yu know what gender they are?


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## mattoboy (Feb 4, 2012)

Good on you! As long as there happy! Bettas are some of the hardiest fish alive. When I was younger and didnt know a thing about keeping bettas, I kept them in 1-gallon bowls and did water changes every few weeks and they had no heaters and I kept them alive for a year or more.. even through winter! Man was I stupid! But you learn


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I saw where one guy went to an abuse center where there were abused kids, and they all got a nice betta and a smile on their face....

Jeff.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

Bettas are tropical fish... they need warm water to live comfortably and stay healthy, thus they need a heater. While your heart may have been in the right place, the situation they are in is still not a good on. 

I, for one, am not going to support people buying Bettas and then KNOWINGLY keeping them in poor conditions simply because the place they were in previously was worse.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

LionCalie, I guess you're right. I should have left them to die a slow painful agonizing death in the pet stores. :roll: God forbid I try to do something right for a helpless creature. 

Anyways, thanks everyone else for the good thoughts  I feel good knowing I have given 12 creatures a better life than they would have had.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

I have rescued my share of fish from Walmart and improved their living conditions at few stores. I did this without supporting the cruelty (got them for free) and without keeping them in substandard conditions. 

What do you think is going to happen at that store? 12 new Bettas are going to take the place of the ones you bought. 12 more Bettas are going to suffer the same fate because guess what? The store didn't learn any lesson.

When you choose to bring an animal into your home, it is your job as caregiver to make sure they are getting proper care. Whether or not their previous conditions were much worse is irrelevant. That is like buying a puppy from an awful pet store where it was suffering, then keeping it outside in a small crate during winter. Oh but it is okay, because now he has a toy and he isn't going to die tomorrow. His health will still suffer and the conditions are still bad.

There is a bigger picture we must take into account here.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

You could have offered some friendly advice rather than just saying you refuse to support someone who did a good deed. 

So, I should steal the fish from the store? Or ask if I can have them for free as you did? Things don't work like that around here.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

This is an open forum. You will get all kinds of opinions. Why would I be supportive of actions I do not support? 

Please do not twist my intentions. I never said you should steal anything. 

When I see awful conditions like you saw, and believe me I have, I ask to talk to the manager. Then I raise hell.... take pictures, video, and say I will be contacting corporate. I tell them that unless conditions improve, I will not longer shop at their store, neither will my friends or family.

9/10, in my experience, conditions will improve dramatically.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, I am not a free loader. I'm not going to raise hell and threaten a manager just so I can get a free fish. I paid for my fish. And as I said in my first post, I was going to have a conversation with a manager, probably over the phone, about improving the conditions and the treatment of the fish they sell.


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

While you may have been trying to make a difference in those fishes lives, which is admirable, but you are not helping them in a good way.

My advice is to put these fish up for adoption on craigslist, and ask for people to adopt these fish, but first ask questions to ensure that you are giving them to PROPER homes.

Right now, although you tried to help it wasn't the best.

These fish are TROPICAL and NEED heaters.

Rescuing is taking an animal out of a situation WITHOUT encouraging it to occur again, as well as providing the care the pet needs. 

Unfortunately, you have encouraged this to happen again, by paying for these fish. The best way to save fish is to stop paying for them. Yes, fish will die, but in the long run many MORE fish will be saved. Look at all the wal-marts that have stopped selling fish because no one was buying them anymore. You can not say you do not approve animal cruelty when you are in a way 1. encouraging it (even if indirectly) and 2. doing so yourself.

By keeping those fish in 1 gallon containers without heaters (if your air temps do not keep the water at a proper temperature), than you are being cruel in another way to those fish. Yes, they may have warm water, but they are also freezing cold.

If you can afford to, I would by a space heater and use that to up the air temps in the room you keep the fish in, or as I said before, put them up for adoption.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Putting them up for adoption would defeat the purpose of me having them in the first place. I wanted the fish. If I wanted people from craigslist to have a Betta fish, I would just post an ad saying, "Hey people, go get a Betta fish from Walmart". 

"They may have warm water, but they are freezing cold"? That didn't make any sense, sorry.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

TurtleMan84 said:


> Well, I am not a free loader. I'm not going to raise hell and threaten a manager just so I can get a free fish. I paid for my fish. And as I said in my first post, I was going to have a conversation with a manager, probably over the phone, about improving the conditions and the treatment of the fish they sell.[
> 
> You missed my point ENTIRELY. I didn't say I do all of that so they will give me a free fish... I do all of that so I do not support the cruelty by paying for abused fish and to EDUCATE the store employee's and managers that neglecting the fish is unacceptable.
> 
> Being a vegan or vegetarian has NOTHING to do with it.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay, everybody, let's please stop arguing...
Peoples opinions are important, but you can't force your opinion onto others, so let's stop... The word "rescue" is sensitive around here so let's stop using it as well...
Honestly, let's just focus on getting the fish into better conditions.. 12 betta is a large number, lol. I'd start looking on craigslist, or freecycle (google it for your town), to find larger tanks.. 5 gallons+. This will give you the option to divide a tank, which means only 1 filter/heater per more fish. If you have some females they can share a 10 gallon+ tank turned into a sorority.
You did put them in a better life, but as a fish keeper you want it to be the best life. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I did not say you were a free loader, I just said I am not one. I thought I came across as honest and friendly and caring in my original post, I did not expect to be verbally attacked by someone.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, I do have an empty 10 gallon tank that I had used before for other fish. But the fish kept dying, and the tank turned brown and green within a week from algae and looked disgusting, so I put the remaining fish in my turtle tank and broke down the 10 gallon. I had a filter and heater in that 10 gallon, but it didn't keep the fish alive.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

I did not verbally attack you in any way. That is all I will say on that matter.


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

TurtleMan84 said:


> Putting them up for adoption would defeat the purpose of me having them in the first place. I wanted the fish. If I wanted people from craigslist to have a Betta fish, I would just post an ad saying, "Hey people, go get a Betta fish from Walmart".
> 
> "They may have warm water, but they are freezing cold"? That didn't make any sense, sorry.
> 
> I'm guessing you are also a vegetarian or a vegan? Because if you eat meat, then you are encouraging more animals to be slaughtered so we can eat them, therefore, you contribute to animal cruelty. Don't be a hypocrite.


Ok, so if you want the fish, you should also take the responsibility. And that means providing clean water and heated water. Because they are tropical. I suggested putting them on craigslist to find them homes where they could get the proper care they need. You are not providing that right now. Right now, you should focus on the ones you can provide heaters and clean tanks for. 

Sorry, I meant "They may have clean water, but they are freezing cold".

I am not a vegetation or a vegan, nor am I a hypocrite. 
Meat I purchase is raised for the purpose of being used as food. They are not being raised for pets. I see nothing wrong with animals being raised for food; humans eat animal meat for a reason; we need the nutrition it provides. But I am not going argue about that. 

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I provided you with 2 helpful suggestions, as well as valid reasons for those suggestions. In no way did I insult you, but you reply with aggression to myself as well as Lioncallie because we do not agree with you. You will not last long on forums if you become so personally offended by those who do not agree with you; that is what forums are for - discussion. 

I'm not going to commend you for doing something that isn't worthy of praise, either.


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## shadowpony (Apr 15, 2012)

I have two Zoo Med mini heaters if you want them. Im not trying to sell them but they are extra's. Twice weekly water changes would also help. Congrats on the new fishies!


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thank you for your suggestions. 

But don't tell me I am contributing to animal cruelty. 

An animal getting shot in the head and chopped up with an axe sounds much worse to me than someone having a fish without a heater in its tank. You are delusional if you think otherwise.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Okay, everybody, let's please stop arguing...
> Peoples opinions are important, but you can't force your opinion onto others, so let's stop... The word "rescue" is sensitive around here so let's stop using it as well...
> Honestly, let's just focus on getting the fish into better conditions.. 12 betta is a large number, lol. I'd start looking on craigslist, or freecycle (google it for your town), to find larger tanks.. 5 gallons+. This will give you the option to divide a tank, which means only 1 filter/heater per more fish. If you have some females they can share a 10 gallon+ tank turned into a sorority.
> You did put them in a better life, but as a fish keeper you want it to be the best life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


couldnt have said it better myself! 

I don't think it's right to flame people for trying to get them in better conditions while working on saving for getting better tanks or heaters. You can find them in yard sales, goodwill, freecycle, and craigslist. The fish wont drop dead without a heater, no one has yet to ask what temp the room is that they're housed in. I live in south florida and my bathroom never drops below 74-76 ( its jungle hot down here LOL) and some of the tanks in my bathroom have no heaters, they stay at a constant temp because I do check my thermometers daily. I think before we scold people we should try to educate them and help them do it the best way they can. Personally I'm happy someone who actually cares took them rather than them dying on a shelf with no one to love them. If that makes me cruel, I'm sorry.

I hope we can actually be a little more positive because when I first joined I was scolded and almost wanted to return my fish because instead of helping most people yelled at me for "not knowing anything" and told me to return all my fish because I was going to kill them anyways.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thank you Anita, I'm glad there are friendly supportive people like you on here. Olympia also had a good point. These are the kind of replies I expected on a fish forum. I'm disappointed and saddened that other people attack and scold any new member that comes along. I guess that makes them feel better about themselves. So be it.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

I just recommend that you try to get heaters, Its easiest if you look online for large tanks, I like divided tanks because it saves space and you can use one heater per more betta (like was previously stated) I found my luck on craigslist and also sometimes petco has the dollar per gallon sale, where you can get brand new big tanks cheap like a 40 gal =$40 and so on but the smallest would be a 10 gal. Adjustable heaters are best. I would scrub down that 10 gal you had, divide it 3/ or 4 ways, (i've done 4 you just have to keep up water changes and some people think its too small it gives each one about 1.5-2 gals ) and use your heater with maybe an air bubbler to circulate water if you don't want to buy a filter. 

All suggestions that help. but for the long run if you don't want to rehome them, 
(I've done that on here, the people are nice and your betta's will go to great homes I recommend it if you can't buy what you need for them) you should start looking/saving for necessary supplies to keep them happiest and healthiest

I think its more people get so fed up with seeing betta cruelty they try to stop it ASAP rather than actually wanting to attack you. Just comes off that way :-( 

I wish you luck and I hope your betta's do well!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

110% agree with LionCalie.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I do have an air bubbler for the 10 gallon tank. That can be used instead of a filter?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

An airstone doesnt contain the surface area for a useful biological filter.


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## Cargo (May 25, 2012)

You could buy a 20 gallon tank and hood kit when you get some money. If you buy lots of dividers, they will all have about 1.8 gallons each.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I already have a 10 gallon. I don't have the space for a 20. 

What filter should I use for the Bettas that won't have too much current and noise? A small Whisper?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Clean the 10 out really well.. Baking soda can get out old algae stains with persistence.
Any filter that has adjustable flow is a good choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

I use the fluval nano its built for 15 gallons, in my 10 gal. It has adjustable flow it works like a charm. If you don't have space for the tanks, and you don't want to get heaters you should try putting them up in the classifieds section for adoption. That would be in the fish's best interest


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, my plan was to set the 10 gallon back up with dividers, to hold 3 or 4 of the fish. I have a heater for it. And the tank is already clean. I was just curious about the best filter to use. I have space for all the gallon size tanks, and for the 10 gallon. Just don't have space for a 20. My concern with the larger tanks is the algae issue. I'm guessing the light caused the brown and green algae to grow and made the 10 gallon look really nasty. That's why I preferred smaller tanks without bright lights because algae doesn't grow in them.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

I don't know if that is true because my 10 gal has tons of algae due to my lights (I have ones made for my live plants) you could try keeping it away from a window. Also if you scrub it off, change the water and keep it out of the light. I have a 20 that has no algae at all, but I usually leave the light off anyways and my curtains usually stay closed ( otherwise my room gets to like 80-90 degrees! )


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Gallon bowls are fine as long as the water changes are kept up with. You can always get kritter keepers or something later when you can afford it. Right now you just have to make do with what you have.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Actually, I do have some of the fish in critter keepers. They are much nicer and more affordable than the little "tanks" and cubes that are made for Bettas, and provide more space


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You can put heaters in critter keepers. I have them in mine. I keep my fish in an upstairs room that stays pretty warm. I can't afford big fancy tanks, either and I'm not about to spend a whole lot of money that I don't have so that all 9 of my fish can have their own heated, filtered 10 gallon tank.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree. I want my fish to have a good home and life. I will do my best to take care of them and give them what they need.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sure you will. We're here if you have anymore questions.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> Gallon bowls are fine as long as the water changes are kept up with. You can always get kritter keepers or something later when you can afford it. Right now you just have to make do with what you have.


Thank you dramaqueen for saying this. Bias opinions get a little heated on here sometimes. It's like you and Sakura both told me when I got on here. YOU have to decide what is right by you and your fish. There is nothing wrong with getting kind hearted opinions but your opinion is ultimately going to be the one that matters. That whole 5 gallon minimum doesn't work for me either. I personally own one gallons without heaters too just like the OP. My fish are all active and heathy because I take care of my responsiblity and that is my decided opinion after looking into the options. Personaly I think the longevity of a fish is decided more by the care they recieve or the age they are when you buy them. We don't know how old they are when we buy them because as we all know, size is not an indicator of age. We also do not know what kind of care they recieve and what kind of food they get and how often. I have seen many people with experience on here get ahold of a fish and have it die in a couple of days in 5 gallon setups with heaters and cycled. They all say the same thing. "The fish was fine when I bought it... my water parimeters are fine... I don't know what happened." So I leave everyone with this thought, TO EACH HIS OWN.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
+398549535487294853


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Sigh..... 

Proper care is always a touchy subject on the forum and more and more we see these types of threads that quickly turn into arguments about the subject. 

Disagreements are fine but disagreeing and name calling or member bashing is most definately not allowed here. 

We've cleaned up the somewhat offensive posts here and everyone gets a second chance to get back on track but any more name calling will result in a temp. ban for the offending member.

I hope we're good now??


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

I think the storm has passed. lol.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

8I the biggest issue people have with tanks under 2 gallons is how hard it is to safely keep them at a stable temperature. most heaters for tanks under 2 gallons are NOT adjustable, thus you get a constant temp flux which isn't good or the fish we all adore. i DO keep two of my bettas in tanks under 2 gallons, but the room temp doesn't flux much, since i keep the room warm just for my fish, and they're heated. OP stated that they don't have heaters for the bowls, and THAT... is the biggest issue some people have with what was done. that, combined with just outright buying the bettas, rather than bringing the conditions up to the manager right away, rather than waiting until after the fish were bought. if it'd been brought up right away, conditions could have started improving for the fish right then, and the manager would know that people have issues with the way the bettas were kept.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I have 2 bettas that I will have had for 3 years in August sn September. Reina is in a 1 gallo and Makoto is in a 1.5 gallon and they're fine.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

You know, I agree something should be said to management because it's horrible. But on the other hand I have worked for walmart and the only thing they care about it money. It does not affect them emotionally at all when people say things. I am just glad they stopped selling fish when I worked their. Some people think they stop selling them because people don't buy them. As a former lead I can safely and confidently say that my store stopped selling them because they couldn't get anyone to do the water changes even when forcing the hand. The workers in the pet department didn't care at all about the fish. I wasn't allowed because it wasn't my department pft...  
If only they would just hire people to come in for a couple of hours part time to do it. It wouldn't cost much and someone like me would love to do it. It would be fun and a good learning experience. I wouldn't mind learning about taking care of rows of tanks like that.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

The temperature probably fluctuates in my room but I've never seen any indication of any problem.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I would feel a lot better if walmart would just put all the fish out in front where people can see them and make sure the containers are full of clean water and make sure the fish get fed. But as I said, I will have a conversation with a manager or someone about that. Hopefully it will help, but like Shirley said, managers only care about money.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

I am really truly not trying to be rude about this. I am curious as a learning experience. I have researched weather patterns in Thailand and I can safely say I have seen no evidence to prove that Thailand stays at a consistant temperature. The quote below shows a travel agency that talks about the avg weather in Thailand. I do realize that the fish we own are not wild but their DNA is still the same or similar to the wild betta's. 

"Generally speaking,the best time to visit Thailand is from November to February when the northeast monsoon is blowing cool, dry air which serves as a respite from the heat. During this cool season, the temperature ranges from 18 degrees centigrade to 32 degrees centigrade in Bangkok, while in northern and northeast Thailand, temperatures can get quite cool with morning temperatures as low as 8 degrees centigrade to 12 degrees centigrade with the occasional 20 degree day. Nights can be particularly chilly and at high altitudes the temperatures can and do drop below freezing.The summer period, or hot and dry season, is from March to June. At this time temperatures in Bangkok average around 34 degrees centigrade, but can often reach 40 degrees centigrade with the humidity levels of 75%."

www.travelfish.org

EDIT: Whoops didn't mean agency. They tell people facts abt country's they are going to travel too.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Breeders in Thailand don't have heaters to keep good temperature either, the fish are subject to the weather. In jars. 
Getting a little off topic, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I never really thought about it but I don't think any place in the world has a constant temperature. Places like Thailand probably don't have huge fluctuations like 95* to like 75*.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> I have 2 bettas that I will have had for 3 years in August sn September. Reina is in a 1 gallo and Makoto is in a 1.5 gallon and they're fine.


I have had one boy in a one for 2 years now. I don't know his age of course but I know avg life is 3 to 6 years. 

That's my whole argument on the "betta's must have a consistant temp" thing. No place is consistant. And truthfully Thailand has three weather seasons in half of the country. The other half has two and they fluctuate pretty good. Way more than a couple of degrees in a house.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Also, if a Betta fish is captive bred and born into cold water, the cold water is what will be normal to him. A wild fish living in Thailand is completely different from a captive bred fish born into a tank in America. People need to understand that, before they say ridiculous things like, "You're cruel to animals because you didn't give the fish a heater".


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Yea maybe so, I was curious though because parts of Thailand do get to 46 sometimes from what I saw. I do however realize that is way to cold for any fish in a fish tank.:lol: Okay back on topic. *Smiles at Olympia* ;-)


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

TurtleMan84 said:


> Also, if a Betta fish is captive bred and born into cold water, the cold water is what will be normal to him. A wild fish living in Thailand is completely different from a captive bred fish born into a tank in America. People need to understand that, before they say ridiculous things like, "You're cruel to animals because you didn't give the fish a heater".


Breeding Bettas successfully requires them to be in warm water. Breeders accomplish this by keeping their fish room warm, providing heaters, or even keeping them outside like in Thailand. Cold water is not normal for Bettas, they are tropical fish. 

No one said you were cruel.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Not trying to argue anymore, but in fact, Kathstew said I was contributing to the cruelty of animals.


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## bettaboytroy (Apr 15, 2012)

Well here's my opinion. The best way to get a business to stop is to write a letter and tell them you will boycott their business for said behavior. Buying fish to save them just shows that they need to order more fish. However Turtleman you did the right thing this time because you sincerely thought it was the thing to do. I think it's great if people have 1 or 2 fish and they supply them with large tanks and heaters and the like. However I believe bettas can lead a very good and healthy life in gallon containers. Clean water and good food I feel is what is important. Keep them in the warmest most well lit area of your house. It's my belief they like to be in an area with a lot of human traffic as well so they don't become "bored". I give mine clean water, good variety of food, attention, and condition the water with almond leaves occassionally. My fish are big, healthy and fiesty. You do the best you can with what you got. These are fish. They're here for us to enjoy. In return we treat them with kindness and respect. I suppose you could always go to the service desk and talk to the manager about the situation. If he doesn't agree with you maybe you could offer to do the water changes for him. Enjoy the fishies!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Woah! 12 bettas?!? How did you carry them all?!?!?

Pictures??
I think your heart was in the right place for rescuing them. WM and other large chain stores will continue to stock them as long as head office wants them to. Not all customer complaints make it to the right people. And some people are shy and non-confrontational, so if the OP was too nervous to discuss the quality of life to a manager in person I feel there is nothing wrong with calling them later. They can see on sales charts that 12 betta fish were sold. 
Anyway, off topic. I agree with ShirleytheBetta about taking into account your own resources and limitations and providing the best home you can. With bettas, there is so many "proper" set-ups etc...

Finally, I don't use filters so I can't help you with that!


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I didn't buy all 12 at once, I bought 3 or 4 at a time over a 2 week period.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

bettaboytroy, very nice and respectful advice. 

Laki, Thank you very very much *hugs*


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

TurtleMan84 said:


> I didn't buy all 12 at once, I bought 3 or 4 at a time over a 2 week period.


Don't feel bad, I own 21.... wait *counts* 23. To be fair 12 are in a large tank sorority. I'm obessed putting it mildly. :lol:


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## Anna27 (Nov 9, 2011)

Well said Bettaboytroy. I have had my little bubbles for over a year now with NO heater. He is very active and healthy. (I live in Arizona and their really is no need for a heater).


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I wanted to get more Bettas, but I am limited on space and money, so 12 is plenty for now


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Uh oh, betta bug bits another unsuspecting person.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

TurtleMan84 said:


> Also, if a Betta fish is captive bred and born into cold water, the cold water is what will be normal to him. A wild fish living in Thailand is completely different from a captive bred fish born into a tank in America. People need to understand that, before they say ridiculous things like, "You're cruel to animals because you didn't give the fish a heater".


............ uh no thats false. Thats actually the biggest lie Ive ever read regarding bettas.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Okay, that's your opinion.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

No thats a fact. Bettas are tropical fish. They need 80F or higher (less than 90F though) to be healthy and active. 

Ive raised more bettas than youll see in your life. I know a little bit more about them than the average pet betta keeper.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

MrV is right.. After getting warm water they are much more active.. As cold blooded animals too cold a temperature really slows them down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bettaboytroy (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks Shirley, I'm at 13 and I'm sitting here thinking I could really use a Male crowntail and two more females.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I think what they need, is nothing more than an opinion. Every site I find online gives a different temperature for Bettas to live in. I've seen anywhere from 70 degrees to 85 degrees. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? It's all a matter of opinion. Good for you if you raise them and keep them in 80 degrees. *claps hands*


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It IS true that they're more active when they're in warmer water and breeders will tell you that it's best to spawn them at a temp of at least 80*.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

No there's facts. Bettas are tropical fish and it is warm all year round in Thailand or else all the domestic bettas being imported would die off during the cold since theyre kept outside. 

People do things differently but there are requirements that need to be met. 

And don't even try to get an attitude with me bud. I, again, own and raise hundreds of bettas a year. Not only that but my bettas are nice and not from stores but directly from other breeders instead of from pet stores where I would contribute to the mistreatment of bettas and the further screwing up of betta genetics.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

It varies because you can't ask the fish..
My lone Betta is kept at 78-79F. However my two boys live a life at 75F for the sake of the community fish in with them.
A very strict forum will argue that betta should be kept at 80F and no less. This forum usually says 76F. 
With most fish, you want them at the lowest recommended temperature. Certain fish, including betta, chocolate gourami, discus, and rams, however should be kept at the upper range recommended.
There are a lot of facts, and a lot of grey areas in fish keeping. These facts are shaped and bent by respective forums, each forum will tell you something else. I did end up leaving a forum that told me I can't keep my betta in a community... We are probably the most chill people you'll find...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bettaboytroy (Apr 15, 2012)

Cold blooded animals are always more active in warmer temperatures. MrVampire is correct with the ideal temperature range. You do the best *you* can. Please respect MrV he is always willing to help and has lots of experience. He and Oldfishlady were the 1st to help me when I asked for help.


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## ZergyMonster (Feb 20, 2012)

I run into this type of bad thinking all the time...

It doesn't matter what age you are, it only matters how knowledgeable and how well you can do something.

Just because you're old doesn't mean you know things, sure life experiences are vast because of how long you've been on the earth; but that surely doesn't mean you know what you truly need if you never researched the topic or performed in the trade.

I know several people get their start as children and they grew into great experts. That doesn't mean you are suddenly an expert because you did some research as an adult.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

sigh - 

Well first off wow 12 fish  you got bitten hard by the betta bug  I have 8 and that's plenty until I can get my breeding pair... I am NOT under any circumstances getting any more until my breeding pair LOL... even if the betta jumps out of the water and verbally begs me to take him home. 

I read almost all the posts in here and I must have missed what water temp you are keeping your fish at that caused all the ruckus... I really don't want to know if it's going to cause a fight all over again either... If the room you keep your fish in is roughly 80 degrees F all the time, your water temperature should be well within a healthy range. Right now the room my fish are in is about 85 degrees and my tank thermometers are all reading 80. In my case my heaters barely, if ever, kick on.

Welcome to the forum btw
Best Wishes
TS

And to the person who posted that they donated a bunch of bettas to an abused childrens shelter... that is just awesome beyond belief. (sorry I forgot who posted it since I just read this entire thread from page 1 )


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

TurtleMan84 said:


> I do have an air bubbler for the 10 gallon tank. That can be used instead of a filter?


Air bubblers can be turned into nice sponge filters (google them to see what I mean). They are much cheaper than regular filters, but they come with the side-effect of constant noise. You can even run multiple sponge filters from one bubbler. They are great in divided tanks, tho. If you put 3 males in a divided 10 gal, you could get away with 4 tanks instead of 12. Or you could divide 20 gal long tanks 4 ways and cut the number tanks down to 3. 



TurtleMan84 said:


> I would feel a lot better if walmart would just put all the fish out in front where people can see them and make sure the containers are full of clean water and make sure the fish get fed. But as I said, I will have a conversation with a manager or someone about that. Hopefully it will help, but like Shirley said, managers only care about money.


Hmm. Maybe you should start doing that for them. Every time you are in there, move all the worst fish to the front. Make sure their cruelty is visible for all the store to see. 



TurtleMan84 said:


> *Also, if a Betta fish is captive bred and born into cold water, the cold water is what will be normal to him.* A wild fish living in Thailand is completely different from a captive bred fish born into a tank in America. People need to understand that, before they say ridiculous things like, "You're cruel to animals because you didn't give the fish a heater".





TurtleMan84 said:


> I think what they need, is nothing more than an opinion. Every site I find online gives a different temperature for Bettas to live in. I've seen anywhere from 70 degrees to 85 degrees. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? *It's all a matter of opinion.* Good for you if you raise them and keep them in 80 degrees. *claps hands*


Eh. Not exactly. Temp requirements aren't a matter of opinion. Fish are poikilothermic which means their body temp is regulated by their environment (like like most reptiles). Temperature plays an important role in the activation of enzymes within the body. If the fish's body isn't at the proper temp, these enzymes won't function properly. The same thing will actually happen in humans; it's a process we call hypothermia. The body actually shuts down because it is too cold. The only difference is mammals can regulate their core body temp and keep it from getting that low except under extreme duress. Bettas are just really hardy and can take temp swings that a discus (which have similar temp needs) couldn't. 

I may be a little late in this thread, but welcome TurtleMan84!


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

I really do want to see pictures of your fish turtleman


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Who ever asked for pictures, I will take pictures soon of my 12 buddies. All males.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'd like to see some pics, too. We love pics here.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Turtleman, have you identified their tail types yet? I'm curious. I am a fan of the veiltales so I am assuming that is what yours is since they were bought at walmart. What's the most unique color you have seen on one so far?


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

I was one that asked for pictures.

My collection of bettas started out with a beautiful copper halfmoon doubletail. (He later turned into a tail biter and is now all over that.)
I have one crowntail now, 3 veiltails, a labeled halfmoon, but I think he's a delta... and a female (not sure of tail type) The baby is a bit young to tell for me but I think it's a veiltail. Not sure if it's male or female yet though. The baby betta from Petco was my last purchase.

My Walmart stopped selling Bettas or any live animals a long time ago. We have a grocery store/ super store, named Meijer that still sells live fish from tanks, and bettas in cups. I think they still might sell small animals like hamsters and budgies too. It's been a while since I was in there.

I can't wait to see the guys you got though. It's just kind of sad next week there will be a whole new batch of bettas to take the place of the ones you bought. Lets hope that the manager listens to you, and like someone else said, the employees in that department actually are willing to do water changes.

BTW- if you log in here using bettafish.com you have the option to make albums of your fish. (not sure if it is the same in the TFK login) When you do post pictures you should make an album. That way you can see how they've changed in your care down the road. They should change quite a bit from what they look like from the store.


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Twilight Storm said:


> BTW- if you log in here using bettafish.com you have the option to make albums of your fish. (not sure if it is the same in the TFK login) When you do post pictures you should make an album. That way you can see how they've changed in your care down the road. They should change quite a bit from what they look like from the store.


Yes the login will work for both forums.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

yea I got quite the changer, patty. she did a total flip on me. I though she was going to be a red cambodian and turned into a big fat orange monster.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I had a white one that turned blue. lol


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Oh these betta/chameleons


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yeah, he was white with blue spots and now he's almost solid blue except for a white spot on one side.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Aww..he finally told us..they are all Males..huh?? See, that's my prob too..too addicted to the Males of the fishy world..If they were females..then u could house em together..that's the tough part of being attracted to the males.. But wanna see those pix.. Side note..if you have probs with space..(tanks too long) you can opt for hexagon or cylindrical tanks, and obtain a few more and save space (just a thought)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

TurtleMan84 said:


> I decided recently to rescue 12 Betta's from my local walmart and petsmart. I was shocked at how terrible the Betta's are treated at walmart. They are all shoved way up under a dark shelf where no one can see them, and those little cups they come in were barely half full with water. I saw 2 dead Betta's, that had been dead at least 3 or 4 days, because the water looked like milk and the fish had started disintegrating. Really made me sad, and mad at the idiots who allow that to happen to the fish and never check on them. I took some of the Betta's to the sink and gave them more water. I am going to have a conversation with a manager about that soon.
> 
> Anyways, all of my 12 Betta's are in gallon sized bowls, tanks, and critter cages. They all have gravel and a small decoration or plant. A few of them have an LED light. But unfortunately, I don't have the funds to provide them with a heater or filter. But, I feel that I am giving them a much better life than they had in the pet store. They now have more water and swimming space and a plant or decoration to play in. Maybe one day I'll have the money to get bigger tanks with heaters and filters, but right now that is the best I can do for them.


Welcome to the forum and to the wonderful world of Betta keeping....and by the looks of it you dove in head first...laffs.....

As you are finding out...lot of opinion on proper Betta keeping based on personal opinion, experience, what a hobbyist had read, heard...etc.....as well as a few myths.....

In my many years in this hobby I have found that you have lots and lots of different ways you can successfully keep, spawn and rear fry of this species...It is finding what works best for you, your Bettas and what you have on hand.

IMO/E-the long fin males can be kept in 1gal containers long term provided that water quality and temp are maintained...... and with some of the long fin males this is the only way you can keep their long heavy fins intact-with some (_not all_) too much space can be stressful on them and this can cause neurotic behaviors, stress, fin damage...etc....which in turn can compromise immune response. 

Water changes in 1gal unfiltered without live plants-twice weekly...1-50% water only and 1-100% should maintain water quality.

Be sure and properly acclimate to both the temp and chemistry with 100% water changes by adding small amounts of the new tank water to the holding cup over 10-15min or to tolerance.

The sudden extreme temp and chemistry changes can be stressful.

The only chemical additive needed-a good dechlorinator that covers both chlorine and chloramines- Be sure and check dosage if you have both-some recommend double dose with chloramine.

You may or may not need a heater-your goal is to maintain water temp in the 76-80F range

You do need a thermometer to monitor both the tank temp and the temp of the replacement water used for water changes.

I have found _healthy Betta _can tolerate the normal/gradual temp swings that often happen with day/night, lights on/off and the varied temps you normally get at different levels in the tank- up to 10 degree difference without any issues.

IMO/E-filtration is optional for this species-especially in smaller containers-sometimes the filter/water movement can cause fin damage.

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals is best and if you have access to mosquito larva offer a few rinsed on occasion....

Look forward to seeing pic and hearing more about your Betta keeping adventures.....this is a great hobby to be apart of....Lot of different ways to properly keep them....just remember no matter what size container you use.....water changes, proper temp and good nutrition.....

And most important....
Enjoy........


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks OldLady, you sure did type a lot!

Someone asked what kind/color Bettas I got...

3 Crowntails(One Blue, One Red, One Aqua with red fins)
1 Plakat/Round Tail(White with red fins)
3 Half Moons(All varied Blue colors)
5 Regular Veil(One Red/Blue mix, 2 Dark Blue, One Orange, One white/pinkish)

I think that covers them all.


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## ZergyMonster (Feb 20, 2012)

I am surprised that Walmart has more than just veil tails and crowntails. Most walmarts don't invest into other tail types because of the extra cost.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

The other ones came from Petsmart. Walmart only had the Crowns and Veils


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I do agree, that buying the fish only encourages bad care ;-( I refused to buy even OBJECTS from one store because of their complete lack of brains. They were showcasing their "wonderful" betta homes, like the gumball machine, the 0.5 gallons... All of which had dropsy, ich, rot, or were dead. GREAT showcasing :roll: -sigh-

I pull the betta fish cups FORWARD to be seen. I make the employees take the dead ones. And I ask for the sick ones for super cheap, or free.

Anyways, I tried getting a female from Petsmart for cheaper, and wasn't going to bring her back since she had rot down to her body... but they tore her cup from my hands and said no. :| If they refuse, ask for a final sale, to show you aren't bringing them back. Or ask for free, and a final sale, no return. That way, you don't lose money, they don't get money, and the fish overall get better care. YES we all know they are tropical fish, but try heating 1 gallons. I don't expext you to heat every 1 gallon, or buy fantastical 5 gallons that are heated, filtered and cycled :roll:

Keep doing what you are doing - you need advice, we'll help ya  

On a side note, my fishies have the warmest room in the house with a room heater :lol: That's why I still rescue. I can supply warm water, proper cleanings, etc. Try adopting them out!!


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I want to see pics


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I won't be adopting any of my pets out, sorry.

Would you adopt your children out if you couldn't afford to heat your house for them? I think not. 

So, let's forget about the adoption thing


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm pointing out that it's nice you rescued, but you can give them great homes via people on here or people you know. That's what I do.

As for adopt children out, don't go there. I AM ADOPTED. because my mother couldn't care me as she should have been able to, and I was given a chance to be with RELATIVES that were nice enough to raise me sicne I was 2.

So, yeah, if I was in a terrible situation where my children's health, mentally and physically were at risk, yes I would adopt them out to relatives. Or people I closely knew.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

TurtleMan84 said:


> I won't be adopting any of my pets out, sorry.
> 
> Would you adopt your children out if you couldn't afford to heat your house for them? I think not.
> 
> So, let's forget about the adoption thing


To be fair you never once said you didn't have them in a warm room. No one even asked if you did there was just this assumption you didn't. No more arguing please.lol :lol: lets get off the argument that is in the past please and move on. I'm a big fan of veil tails but they can be a bear sometimes with their constant fin splitting and sometimes fin biting. I think I pity the poor things for having to carry around all that extra weight. You have an issue with that yet with the veils?


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Hi Shirleypoo, I keep my buddies in the warmest part of the house, which is on the kitchen counter near the window where they can get light and extra heat from the sun. I also turned down the air conditioner in my house. So, I have made myself uncomfortable so my fish can be more comfortable


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, that's good. -.- Too bad you didn't have a room for them - That's what I was lucky to have. Although it's not dry in that room... it's....nice. o_o


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

You are now a true fish keeper, lol!
I haven't spoiled myself since I got fish!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Awwww turtlebear... lol... My unheateds are in the kitchen too it's always warm in there. Guess what! found my camera cord! I will send you some pics shortly. probably tomorrow though. Getting ready to start accounting class tomorrow. Should be awesome.


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## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Olympia said:


> You are now a true fish keeper, lol!
> I haven't spoiled myself since I got fish!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel you, I gave up much space for my 10 tanks but it is worth it. And my house looks really cool at night when all the lights are off and the tank lights are on. Plus my 20 gal sorority's filter puts me to sleep.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

Cool! Can't wait to see your fishies. I will try to get pictures of mine soon. Most of them "greet me" when I come to check on them  

Hope your class goes well and you get good grades


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

The thing's we do for our pets. Lol. When I was in college I made sure my hamsters were taken care of before I took care of my own needs.


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

I used to have hamsters when I was little. I would always share my fruitsnacks with them and they would keep the snacks in those little pouches in their jaw. That probably wasn't a good idea, but I didn't know any better. I just wanted to share my snacks with my furry buddies


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Your heart was in the right place. Lol


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I used to walk my dog to the store I worked at so we could share a chocolate bar (reese pb cups) I wouldn't recommend doing that anymore!! lol my dog was so healthy and smart! Like a little boy. My coworkers loved it though! And I exercised my dog A LOT!! Not like some people who feed their dog scraps and then don't even walk it. -_-

Back to fish, I love VT but yea both my VT boys ended up nomming. Ludendorff chewed because of a kink due to fin melt but Lakitu... Don't even know. Maybe the air bubbler?


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## TurtleMan84 (Jun 3, 2012)

That's strange. I haven't seen any of my fish chewing on themselves. But I'll keep a look out!


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## mattoboy (Feb 4, 2012)

Another good idea for tanks are TupperWare/Sterilite/RubberMaid containers. I usually get the 11.4L (3 Gal.) for like $5 at Wal-mart on sale. And they hold heat better then glass.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

A lot of people use sterilite bins. Breeders use them for spawning tanks.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Someone on this site uses a vegetable crisper from the fridge!! haha! (cleaned out of course)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think I remember hearing about that. Lol


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That's Tikibirds. XD She used to, when she was in Alaska.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Critter keepers are really inexpensive and you can put heaters in them. I bought a boatload of them when we moved and I think the most expensive one was a 3 gallon for around $7.00.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

what do you mean used to? I stole the veggie crispers when I left Alaska :lol:
They got stuck together in the Uhaul somehow but I still use the one on top. Mr Magic Mushrooms lives in it now :-D

Here is an old pic of the crispers in use in Alaska.









you do not have to get ALL the supplies you need RIGHT NOW. I didn't. I got paid every 2 weeks and almost all of my paycheck went to rent for my crappy apt, but I would save enough to make sure I could get a heater or two. I got most of mine off Ebay or amazon. It may take a week or two but if you keep looking you will find heaters for cheap. 

it's actually easier to get 10 gallon tanks and divide it 3 ways - that way 3 fish and only 1 heater. I only have so many plugs in here so...For filters, I would look for air pumps that allow you to connect two sponge filters to it - one pump to filter two tanks  You have to look online for sponge filters as I can not find them ANYWHERE in petco/petsmart or walmart. If you are using anything under 5 gallons, you don't really need to filter it - just do weekly water changes and clean the crap out of the gravel


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Tiki, :lol: I should have guessed. :lol:


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

The office manager kept bugging me about leaving, since the building caught on fire while I was waiting for john - she kept checking to see if I was still there or not....


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You are a great person might want to use some anti-biotics and instead of keeping them you should adopt them out to people with huge tanks.


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