# Swim Bladder problems with Oranda - Help wanted



## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey everyone, 

I've got a little Oranda that seems to be having Swim Bladder / Digestive issues. 

I've changed her food now three times and she just seems to be getting worse :-( 

Every time I feed her now she gets really 'floaty' for a long while. 

I feed her only a small amount once daily and she's only a very small fish (take a look at this - http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/meet-community/richard-bennett-introduction-108600/) 

I used to feed her Sera flakes and then I switched to Tetra pellets and since then I've switched to New Life Spectrum small fish formula pellets. 

Nothing seems to be working an she's getting floaty every evening now when I feed her. 

Can anyone suggest anything? 

The water parameters are as follows:- 

pH 7.6
Ammonia between 0 and 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

I change her water every week and add a teaspoon of salt into the water. 

She's not got any plants any more (they looked crap after a few weeks, developed black spots and looked terrible... probably due to the salt in the water) 

I add Stress Coat and Stress Zyme when I change the water and I add a weekly dose between changes too. 

Its a 10 Gal / 38 Litre tank which I know isn't ideal but I've already got her an upgrade ready for moving into a new place in September... a 153 Litre / 40 Gal Tank. 

Can anyone suggest anything that might be able to help my little fishy? 

I do give her a little bit of blanched spinach or pea every three or four days as that usually seems to help her poo and then she normally seems better. 

If anyone could suggest anything I'd be really appreciative!!


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Alright, with swim bladder issues, it's more about quantity of food than type of food. Bettas should only be eating about 3-4 pellets a day. How much ate you feeding her? 
A good way to help her pass her food is to fast her for a few day, don't feed her anything. Try gettin her to flare. The extra excitement sometimea helps them poo Vegetables like peas should be a last resort. 
One last thing, you don't need to use salt with every water change. AQ salt isn't reccomended for use over more than 10 days and should only be used if the fish has external injuries. The AQ salt isn't helping her. What you could add instead is Epsom salt, which is better for internal problems.


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## mkayum (Jul 5, 2012)

MadameDesu said:


> Alright, with swim bladder issues, it's more about quantity of food than type of food. Bettas should only be eating about 3-4 pellets a day. How much ate you feeding her?
> A good way to help her pass her food is to fast her for a few day, don't feed her anything. Try gettin her to flare. The extra excitement sometimea helps them poo Vegetables like peas should be a last resort.
> One last thing, you don't need to use salt with every water change. AQ salt isn't reccomended for use over more than 10 days and should only be used if the fish has external injuries. The AQ salt isn't helping her. What you could add instead is Epsom salt, which is better for internal problems.


 It's not betta, it's an oranda which is kind of fantail goldfish........ and they don't flare....


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## mkayum (Jul 5, 2012)

It's very common for short bodied fantail goldfish like oranda/moor/etc to have that kind of swim bladder problem. They get overfed easily. 


I recommend you to use epsom salt to help her pass the "stuff". The photo of your little Mona, she look bit bloated and I would suggest fasting her for a few days. I think it's good idea to remove the river rocks temporarily because if you decide to fast her & it'd be easier to see if there are any poo. 

By the way, she's a beautiful fish! I love all kind of goldfish. My favorite is Black Moor c:


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## mkayum (Jul 5, 2012)

And also the reason why that your plants kept dying, i think they might be tropical and it requires warm temperature & high light to thrive. Mona is a cold water goldfish ...I think the fake silk plants might suit her tank bit better.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Rich! 

Oh dear. I was afraid this would happen. Despite the fact that NLS is a great food it does make some goldfish floaty. My next suggestion is home-made gel food. New Life Spectrum, like all pellet foods needs to use a binder which is wheat. This causes floatyness in a lot of goldfish. I have a ryukin who can't take commercial pellets because of this. Poor little guy goes upside down after just one. This is why I switched to gel food. If I overfeed, he will get a little floaty, but no major problems. 

Gel Food Recipes This site has some great recipes. I also have some easier-to-make recipes that use baby food. You can also read this article to learn a bit more about the digestive processes of goldfish: Nutrition Part 1

Your plants probably died from the salt. They really don't like it at all. I had to remove mine when I salted my goldfish tank. It stinks because they are soo good at sucking up ammonia. 

And I just wanted to mention that goldfish are not coldwater fish. They are what is known as eurythermal. They can survive a very wide range of temperatures. The commons can go down as low as 32F (0C) and as high as 90F (32C). The fancies aren't nearly as hardy, so we like to keep them between 70F (21C) and 80F (29C). The reason most people suggest to keep goldfish at a lower temp is that they need less food to maintain a normal body weight (and less food means less waste). They also have higher oxygen demands at higher temps, so to avoid competition with the beneficial bacteria (they also use oxygen), we keep the temps in the low 70's F. I keep my goldfish tank at 72F (22C) in the winter, but it climbs as high as 78F (25C) in the summer. 

Rich, if you have a heater (and a thermometer; you can't trust the thermostats on heaters), it would be a good idea to put it in Mona's tank. A higher temp will help her digest food faster. Also fasting for a few days sounds like a great idea.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

mkayum said:


> It's not betta, it's an oranda which is kind of fantail goldfish........ and they don't flare....


:O

I really need to check which subgroup these are posted under _before_ I shove my foot in my mouth. 
Ignore me, please


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hey everyone, 

Thanks so much for the posts. 

This is the course of action I'm going to take. 

1. I do have a heater so I shall use it and try to maintain the tank water at 21 Degrees C. 
without a heater her water fluctuates between 16 and 20 Degrees C anyway so I will set to 21 and keep an eye on it. 

2. I'll stop putting salt into the water - I've been using Neutrafin aquarium salt
If I don't see an improvement in a couple of weeks then i'll switch to Epsom Salt (Can anyone recommend any brand in particular?) 

3. I only feed 3 of the Tetra pellets and about the same amount (in bulk) of the NLS food. I will fast again for a few days and try again with small amounts - failing that will try gel food. 

I think I have enough advice here to try some new things for the next few weeks! 

I just really can't wait to get the new aquarium set up because I know the small tank I have at the moment isn't really big enough for her.. I was a complete novice when I started so the learning curve has been steep! 

Thank you all so much!!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh wow. I didn't know it got that low. That actually could be one of the problems. Lower temps mean slower digestive system. With a lot of food going in, she might not be able to digest it all and some has gotten stuck in her. I would only feed her once every other day if it gets as low as 16C. I think you can bump up the temp to around 24C right now to try to help her pass the food, and then leave the heater around 21C.


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## beano129 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks Izzy,

for the last 5 days or so it's basically been between 18 C and 19C but I will definitely get the heater set up this evening and get the tank temperature up. 

If she's got food stuck will she be able to pass it eventually? I'd hate to think that I've caused any permanent damage :-(


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

She should be able to pass it eventually. Especially when the water warms up. Since you've got a heater right now, I'm not too worried. Just make sure you bring the temperature up slowly. A rise of no more than a degree a day.


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