# 1st batch of fries - Need advice



## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi guys,

My eggs just hatched about 1 1/2 days ago. I remove the male Betta, Zeus from the tank already. I also reduced the water level up to +-1cm so the fries could breathe for air. I also started feeding a lil microworms.

The fries are already free swimming btw, but most of them stay at the bottom of the tank though. Is this normal?

How do I maintain the cleanliness of the water in the tank? Like simple steps of what I can do to reduce the mortality rate of the fries?


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## valen1014 (Jan 20, 2013)

CONGRATULATIONS!!! I will leave this for the breeding experts here ^^; But I just wanted to add that betta frys don't start breathing from the air until 3-6 weeks when the laberynth fully develops. Congrats again and good luck!


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## Leroy (Mar 10, 2013)

Arch said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My eggs just hatched about 1 1/2 days ago. I remove the male Betta, Zeus from the tank already. I also reduced the water level up to +-1cm so the fries could breathe for air. I also started feeding a lil microworms.
> 
> ...


Once the fry are free swimming you can do a water change. I would start out with a small 50% water change and then once the fry are about 2 weeks old start doing 90% water changes. Its okay if the fries are staying at the bottom they will eventually get up sooner or later


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Leroy said:


> Once the fry are free swimming you can do a water change. I would start out with a small 50% water change and then once the fry are about 2 weeks old start doing 90% water changes. Its okay if the fries are staying at the bottom they will eventually get up sooner or later


Hi Leroy, 

Thank you for your reply. Ok sure. So how often do I have to perform the 50% water changes for the next 2 weeks? Every 3-4 days?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Daily water changes using a drip system to add in the new water - 

Need to siphon the bottom of the tank daily with the water changes (usually recommended to do is within an hour after each feeding - 3-4 feedings per day)... as the live food die off and rot in there, can cause bacteria to grow and there is word that some of the bacteria from some of the food cause the fish to not grow ventrals due to being on the bottom of the tank with the bacteria.

Daily water changes as they release a hormone to stunt growth, also don't want ammonia to build up which is very deadly to fry their first month. 

I use airline tubing to siphon - a clear straw over one end to help guide it to where I want to go, will also allow you to see any fry that is sucked up. A finger held by the other end (over the bucket) to stop flow if you suck up a fry. Siphon everything off the bottom, then finish by siphoning off the top of the water. 
I do the one large one once a day and siphon the bottom about an hour or so after feeding once the live foods settle to the bottom and start dying. 

You would want to drip the new water in, as adding new water that isn't exactly the same can cause mass shock and death. The pH would have to be the same, all chemistry have to be the same, etc. If you use a drip system then it adds in slowly giving time for the fry to adjust to the new parameters and changes.

I have yet to come across a dead fry by doing it this way.

If you don't use a sponge filter and/or live plants then you really need to keep up on the water changes. 

Water quality is VERY important to fry, along with live foods and feedings often, proper temp, etc.

Fry start to develop their labyrinth organs around 7 weeks of age, humidity is very important for this. Make sure you have a glass canopy that is tight fitting, or use seran wrap.


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## Leroy (Mar 10, 2013)

Arch said:


> Hi Leroy,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Ok sure. So how often do I have to perform the 50% water changes for the next 2 weeks? Every 3-4 days?


Yes every 3-4 days


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

In the first month they are the most fragile.. add in the hormone they produce that stunts their growth, daily water changes is typically recommended.. every 3-4 days is for an adult. I have yet to lose a fry, find a dead one, mass deaths, etc, by keeping up on the water changes.. I have always been told those who do go days between changes easily lose a bunch of fry within the first month. Every 3-4 days is recommended on _juveniles_ who have been moved from the fry tank and is much older/bigger.. everyone does things differently, I just go based on many successful breeders, people who breed to show, and my own experience. 

Up to you, but I would get more info, talk to some more breeders before waiting so long between water changes..

Simple info on raising fry created by a great breeder.. 

This is also a good one to follow.. I know this breeder, she is knowledgeable.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Myates said:


> In the first month they are the most fragile.. add in the hormone they produce that stunts their growth, daily water changes is typically recommended.. every 3-4 days is for an adult. I have yet to lose a fry, find a dead one, mass deaths, etc, by keeping up on the water changes.. I have always been told those who do go days between changes easily lose a bunch of fry within the first month. Every 3-4 days is recommended on _juveniles_ who have been moved from the fry tank and is much older/bigger.. everyone does things differently, I just go based on many successful breeders, people who breed to show, and my own experience.
> 
> Up to you, but I would get more info, talk to some more breeders before waiting so long between water changes..
> 
> ...


Daily water changes. Hmmp ok noted. Btw Myates, I have a friend who's whole batch of fries didn't have ventral fins when they grow up. Now I know what's the problem already! Changing water is gonna be so difficult with so many fries swimming here and there...sigh...

I plan to add "API Stress Coat +" to the ageing water before slowly adding it to the new spawn. This is because my current spawn is living in the water with stress coat already.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

1cm water? . . . . you can add water (about 50%) until tank is full or is the height you want. Deeper tank/water makes it easier to siphon water only until fry is big enough to avoid tube. Then you could siphon floor.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Ok noted. Btw, is there anything I can do to accelerate the growth of the fries...like super fast?? I'm feeding microworms 3x a day and ensure i siphon all rotten food, wastage and dirt.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Massive water changes or bigger space and lots of food.


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

Arch said:


> Ok noted. Btw, is there anything I can do to accelerate the growth of the fries...like super fast?? I'm feeding microworms 3x a day and ensure i siphon all rotten food, wastage and dirt.


yes there is..and it's already mentioned before I think...it's the water change , change it daily up to 50% ( don't do 100% water change unless there's a very serious problem like u accidentally drop hazardous liquid or something, as this can "stress" the fries and probably even killing them ), use only aged, treated water and when u add it up..do it carefully, use small tube or anything to let the water "flow" instead of pouring it.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Guys I have a problem...

2 days ago, I had 2 dead fries per day. Today when I checked my tank, I've noticed 20++ dead fries. Why is this happening??

Steps that I've done so far:

- I'm using aged water + API Stress Coat +
- Feeding microworms 2-3x daily depending on the no.of worms in the tank. If it's less I'll add more.
- Perform daily water changes (50%). Using a syringe to siphon dirt from the tank. 

I plan to add some dark tannin water (IAL's) into the tank. Should I do this? What can I do to reduce the mortality rate of the fries


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

A lot of my fry died after taking the IAL out and doing daily 50% water changes. I was adding dechlorinated water with no IAL so it was messing the PH balance. The IAL will help lower the Ph levels. When you're replacing water you've taken out make sure the PH levels and temp are the same and use a drip method to reduce any shock to the fry(as already mentioned by Myates).


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

alunjai said:


> A lot of my fry died after taking the IAL out and doing daily 50% water changes. I was adding dechlorinated water with no IAL so it was messing the PH balance. The IAL will help lower the Ph levels. When you're replacing water you've taken out make sure the PH levels and temp are the same and use a drip method to reduce any shock to the fry(as already mentioned by Myates).


Ok, I will add IAL's water into it. Btw, I didn't let it drip. Instead, I pour water into the syringe and let it flow into the tank slowly. Does this method stress the baby fries?

Btw, my water level is about 1cm++. Should I add more water?


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry I don't really understand what you mean by "poured water into syringe and let it flow into tank". If the water level is 1cm I would gradually fill it up using the drip method as I explained before. Use an airline tubing with a valve on the drip end to control the drip at one drop per 4-5 secs. I usually let mine drip over night.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Ok noted. But what if I add IAL's now? Wouldn't it changed the ph levels of the water and kill more fries?


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Help!!! I'm noticing dead fries in my tank. It's been 4 deaths since the past 8 hours. I did not add in the dark tannin water yet. Can anyone help me out


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

What temp is the water? That is a very small container you have them in, the temp most likely is not stable and fluctuations could easily cause shock/death to such young fry. 

Slowly pouring the water in (same thing as using the syringe) could harm them at such a young age.. only a few days old, right? Drip systems you tend to use on something a bit bigger.. like an actual tank. Using airline tubing and gravity, along with a control valve you let the water drip into the tank - at this young of a stage it would be 1 drop per.. at least 5-10 seconds. It's a slow process.. but it gets the job done.

You may want to toss in some live plants, as you can't put a sponge filter in there.. right now the fry don't breathe the air such as the adults do - they use their gills at this point and need to have oxygen in the water either through what live plants put off, or a sponge filter.

You won't get really fast growth using that container, imo, would need to move them into something bigger.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Well I am not sure though. Haihz, I don't have a test kit which test the temperature or water parameters. I know it's crucial though...

I am not sure how to set up the airline tubing and gravity thingy. Any pictures or guides? 

Yup, so I plan to move them to a bigger tank when the fries are 2 weeks old based on this thread http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=82911. Will try to find some live plants for them. 

Btw, should I add in some dark tannin water into the tank? Will it cause the pH to be unbalanced and further causing more deaths to the fries?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It may be due to ammonia build up. 1cm water in how big a tank and how many fry? Water volume - fry ratio is important. Too many fry in too little volume need more water changes.

Fill the tube to be used as siphon with water or by sucking it. Outlet must be lower than water level of the source. Otherwise gravity wont work. 
Eg. Place a bucket full of water on the tank to be filled. Tie an anchor to one end of the tube and let it sink into the bucket. Suck out water from the bucket. When tube is filled, just release into the tank (tube should reach tank floor) and gravity will do the rest. The larger the distance between water source and tank will make water flow stronger. 
To reduce water flow, plug the outlet with a chopstick or something. Adjust the desired outlet.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

He's using a plastic water or juice bottle it looks like from the pictures, indjo..

Just has the small opening (like a milk plastic jug).. unsure what to do about adding more water into that. 

That link, he isn't saying to move the fry at 2 weeks, you tend to move them 4-6 weeks from the breeding tank. But since you have such little water, you should move them into something bigger.. but have to be very careful as they are very fragile still (why wait til at least a month of age).


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Myates said:


> He's using a plastic water or juice bottle it looks like from the pictures, indjo..
> 
> *Just has the small opening *(like a milk plastic jug).. unsure what to do about adding more water into that.


??? How did he take the parents out?


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

If you look to the right of the picture,he has another water jug with part of it cut out,I guess to put the breeding pair in and take them out.
Those are what-1 gallon jugs,if that?
Even with a small spawn,that water is going to degrade very-very fast.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

The plastic bottle that I'm using for the fries is about 5.5 litres. So yeah I took the parents out using my hand lol. I know I should have a microfiber net or something to take the parents out without removing their protective slime. Sadly, my place here sells very limited aquarium tools. That's the problem. 

I'm kinda skeptical about moving fries at such young age. I had a friend who was desperate to accelerate fry growth that he moved them into a larger tank and it resulted in death of the fries (about 1/2 the batch). I'm doing water changes (20-30%) by installments now to avoid shock/death to the fries. 

Questions:
1) When do you suggest that I should move the fry?
2) Should I increase the water level? Prolly about half the tank at least? The more the better right?
3) Should I add in IAL's now? Will the changed in pH kill the baby fry?


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

That is 1.5 gallons(rounded off)full.
That is way to small for a breeding tank.
The ammonia will build up in there faster than you can change the water.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

What's done is done.. I would recommend in the future to breed in something a bit easier to manage - it can be small, some people breed in bowls, smaller containers etc. But something with a more open top would make cleaning/adding water a bit easier on you 

If you can get the temp and parameters the same you can attempt to move them.. float their whole container in the new tank for about 30 minutes to even out the temp. During that time slowly add some tank water into the container.. just a tiny bit every 5 minutes or so. Hope that will be enough to get them adjusted to the new water conditions. Honestly, since you've had some deaths already and it's just going to get worse due to limited space, etc.. I would move them sooner rather than later. You may lose some, but if they stay in the container for too much longer you will probably lose more.

If you are going to place them in the new tank, you can keep the water level as high as you wish - I would do most of the tank, if not all - and when you do your daily water changes just use a drip method to add new water into the tank slowly throughout the day. But the more water volume you have, the more space they have.. they are only 2 weeks old, so even 5 gallons is fine at this point.

If you add in a broken leaf of IAL into the tank it won't cause a sudden change in the pH. The leaf will release the tannin slowly, slow enough that the fish tend to adjust to it as it goes. I would add it in once you move them - for now you can add in a small portion of a leaf (not a lot) to give them some of the benefits now.


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

Alright noted. I felt the same way too. The thing is most of my hostel mates are doing this method and they made it through. Well, not of all it of course... So I really thought that the 5.5 litres bottle would be suffice. Yes, cleaning is rather difficult. Sometimes, I accidentally bump a tank abit and the fry will be shocked. =.='' maybe that's why they die too.

Ok, I'll get a bigger tank for them. So once the existing container is floating for 30mins inside the new tank, I keep on adding the tank water slowly into their container till the water flows out of the tank. The fries will slowly swim into the new container or what?

Alright noted. Will put some broken IAL's immediately. Myates, thank you so much for your advice. Really appreciate it. Also thank you for the rest of the members that helped me too.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

This video is made by a member here, Basement Bettas - this is how she transfers her fry. I figure it would work good with you since you are also using a container that can float similar to this. So maybe this will help give you an idea


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

(Just sneeking in a comment, Myates, love that new little one! in your avatar!) okay I'm sorry, not meaning to hi jack the thread, just wanted to say that.)


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

My bad!!!
I thought you were planning on keeping them in there,sorry Arch!!!
That is why I said the water will turn faster than you can clean it out.
Bill


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

LOL thanks louisvillelady


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@arch; 1g can be used for breeding as long as you are prepared for more work. I have also bred in 4ltr water. But not 1cm water in a 1g tank/jar. So I still say you need to add more water. At least fill it half way . . . if you don't want to move it this early. Then do as much water change daily and refill with drip system - by drip system I mean fill half a gallon of water in 1-2 hours (about 1 drop/sec). And try to make the water flow from the wall and not drop on the fry - safer for weaker fry. This will avoid shock due to water parameter changes.

If you want to move them, do what myates suggested. They should be OK


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

indjo said:


> @arch; 1g can be used for breeding as long as you are prepared for more work. I have also bred in 4ltr water. But not 1cm water in a 1g tank/jar. So I still say you need to add more water. At least fill it half way . . . if you don't want to move it this early. Then do as much water change daily and refill with drip system - by drip system I mean fill half a gallon of water in 1-2 hours (about 1 drop/sec). And try to make the water flow from the wall and not drop on the fry - safer for weaker fry. This will avoid shock due to water parameter changes.
> 
> If you want to move them, do what myates suggested. They should be OK


Ok noted. Will try to fill the tank half slowly as you suggested. I felt that the fries are a lil too early to move them. Plan to move only when they are about 2 weeks old. When I see a dead fry every morning I wake up, it felt really bad. Gotta do as much as possible to take good care of them. 

I'll check them daily with hopes that the fries stop dying every day. Reduce the mortality rate till the fries are old enough. If they still do, I'll will switch to a larger tank asap.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

Did they survive?


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## Arch (Jan 17, 2013)

I was on vacation for 3 days. I had a friend to look after my fries and sadly most of them died continuously for that 3 days. I realize that the water was rather stinky, like a foul smell and had a feeling that some type of bacteria/virus was killing them. I quickly transfer them to a new tank. Left with about 6-7 of them. This morning when I woke up, there are no deaths. =.='' Damn...


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