# My to guys living together



## tink77 (Jun 20, 2013)

These guys have been living together for three weeks. The swim close together and pay no attention to each other. At first the red one would chase the blue one, but not anymore. He will start to flair up but then stops. They stay pretty close to each other, the aquarium is a 55g. They stay at the same end and feed at the top together.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

OK but someday you might wake up to dead fish, be prepared.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

*sigh* I am just going to quote a past post I made. 



> Some people may have gotten lucky with two calm specimens, but just because they hadn't turned on each other doesn't mean they won't. Bettas are unpredictable. It also doesn't mean they aren't stressed out. Just being in the presence of other males can stress some fish out, even if they don't have fins or scales ripped off of them. We see the occasional new member come on and claim they have successfully kept two males or a male and a female or a male and multiple females together and their fish "seem fine" or "happy" or like "they like each other" and ignore anyone else's attempt to warn them and dissuade them from such practices.
> 
> However, we never hear follow-ups on these cases. The members just disappear. I imagine that sh*t hit the fan and they came home one day and found fish fins and guts strewn all over their tank. But do they report that to us? No. No one wants to admit they made a mistake and done something wrong.
> 
> I won't say it isn't possible. I am saying it is something that takes a lot of trial and errors to find the two males that will just tolerate each other (while risking the lives of multiple living things in the process) and the fish keeper always being on guard. No, "oh, I just watched them for two hours and they hadn't killed each other." Always. I do not think it is worth subjecting your bettas to pain, stress, suffering, and potential death just so you can say you've gone the unconventional route and "succeeded."


Here is a whole thread of people's sentiments about keeping two male bettas together, if you are looking for more: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=184153&highlight=males


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## tink77 (Jun 20, 2013)

Well they may kill each other or not, but until then they are fine. There are more fish in the tank than just them. The red one sometimes chases the other fish as the other fish sometimes chases him. Name me one animal that can be predictable from one minute to the next. I am not new to aquariums I have had one for over twenty years. I have tried keeping fish together when other say not too. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. This aqarium has plenty of room and places to hide. If they just kill each other on site, you would not have any in the wild.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

tink77 said:


> If they just kill each other on site, you would not have any in the wild.


There is a vital flaw in this statement. The aggression of domesticated betta splendens is a human invention. Think those flowing fins and bright colours are found in the wild? They aren't and neither is the aggression. These traits were developed over centuries of selective breeding. Your bettas have never ever existed in the wild and comparing them to wilds is like comparing apples to oranges. Many species of wild bettas can be kept together in aquaria far more successfully than domesticated bettas. Furthermore, wild bettas establish and defend much larger territories than what your 55 gallon tank can simulate anyway, so it's a moot point.

I am not attacking you or your years of fishkeeping expertise. In fact, for the sake of your fish, I really do hope this setup works out for you. I am simply stating my opinion. You post on a forum and you are going to have to expect to get feedback postive or negative.


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## tink77 (Jun 20, 2013)

This is your opinion, they are living together right now just fine. I didn't say i've got the only two male Bettas in the world living together. I showed a picture of my two living together just fine for 3 weeks. I will post about them has time goes bye, and if they kill each other, I'll post about that too.


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

Welcome to the site.

I hope you enjoy it here and find much useful information. Please let me know if you have any questions.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Welcome to the forum!

Beautiful boys. Despite the odds, I hope it works out for all three of you.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

So you're willingly putting your fish at risk of a painful death and for what... what reason would you have?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

....fighting fish....fighting...fish....

"He will start to flair up but then stops"
One is more dominant meaning the submissive one will be stressed out since he is in the constant company of another dominant male. Naturally if one wandered into anothers territory they would fight the loser would leave, in a tank they cant leave.

I recommend you separate them since there really is no reason to have them together


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Put more stalk plants in there so they can at least spend a few hours without looking at each other. I think bettas are pretty social, I noticed a difference in all the divided tanks I've had/seen. I hope this works out for you, but you should really add more plants to extend their lives!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

tink77 said:


> if they kill each other, I'll post about that too.


I find this rather insulting to the many fishkeepers who post here looking for ways to make life BETTER and HEALTHIER for their pets.

You must be an adult if you have been keeping fish for 20 years. Why post stuff like this on a forum with young impressionable kids just trying to do their best with their hobby?


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

The first thing I noticed was that your red guy might have jagged fins like they have been nipped at. Then, in your other thread where you posted close-ups of them, I can see that both of them have fin damage. It is either that they do get into fights when you are not there to witness them or, like you mentioned yourself, the other fish in the tank attack them too. Either way, that is not an very good situation for any of your fish.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

They are your fish so you will do what you want. There are good reasons not to do this. I do not understand why when you obviously know it is very dangerous. Things can happen quickly and if your not there to pull fish when the final battle starts one will likely die. Just a matter of time imo. Good luck.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

And I agree with Registereduser one hundred percent. You do not have to accept our opinions. We hope you would take our perspectives into consideration, but on the internet, what are we, but mere words on a screen? If you decide to reject them based on your experience and best judgement, so be it. We wish you the best.

But please have a little tact in the way you phrase your posts. Not just young children, but also teenagers and adults can take your words to heart. I've already had one person yesterday express to me how upset she was over your apparent lack of regard for whether your fish live or die. A lot of fishkeepers here view their fish as more than pets and you come across sounding cruel and callous.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Not taking sides, here.  But would like to point out one respondent posted:

"However, we never hear follow-ups on these cases. The members just disappear. I imagine that sh*t hit the fan and they came home one day and found fish fins and guts strewn all over their tank. But do they report that to us? No. No one wants to admit they made a mistake and done something wrong.
people do this and are never heard from again."

It seems to me the OP was simply responding that he/she would not take off but would also post if the ultimate happened. JMO and not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Since this is a very emotional issue for many of our members including me I am going to check about getting this thread closed due to the fact that this is a Family Friendly Community and IMO this is not suited for many of our younger members. Please be patient while I check to see if this thread can be closed and keep any comments civil...Thanks !


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Not taking sides, here.  But would like to point out one respondent posted:
> 
> "However, we never hear follow-ups on these cases. The members just disappear. I imagine that sh*t hit the fan and they came home one day and found fish fins and guts strewn all over their tank. But do they report that to us? No. No one wants to admit they made a mistake and done something wrong.
> people do this and are never heard from again."
> ...


Yeah, that was me. I admit my opinions on the matter are quite strong and I do apologize if my comment came off as me being rude. That was never my intention. 

Still, to people who care deeply about fish (I am not implying that the OP does not, btw), "Well they may kill each other or not, but until then they are fine" can be extremely hurtful.

EDIT: Sorry, Perseusmom, I didn't see your post when I posted this.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh, I didn't mean at all to imply you were being rude! Please don't take it that way. I was just trying to point out the OP didn't randomly make the comment but was responding to another.


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## Vickytoria3112 (Jun 4, 2013)

If you do remove this post, then maybe another post about culling Bettas to Oscars because they weren't beautiful enough should be removed as well. That is very upsetting as well and they were trying to convince me that this type animal cruelty is ok and needed. Everything is controversial and others opinions should be heard whether someone likes it or not.

There's always going to be 2 sides.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I personally do not think this thread should be closed, people are following the rules and presenting facts to better inform the op. There is going to be strong feelings on both sides of any issue but as long as we remain respectful that is just fine. 

That's just my opinion though, if the mods feel differently then go ahead and close it.

Btw, I agree with fenghuang and have nothing more to add.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

I can see both sides of the argument regarding whether the topic should remain open or be closed; however, I firmly believe that when delicate issues like this spring up on a forum, it should be left up to the moderators' discretion. Let's trust them and just step back and allow them do their job.


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## Rosewynn (Apr 9, 2013)

I have to agree that closing this thread isn't fair. The OP clearly stated what this thread was about and users can choose between opening it or ignoring it and moving on.

If you close this thread I hope you're willing to close any and all threads that might be 'disturbing' to others. Flushing dead fish versus burying them; no heaters in tanks, cleaning a .5G tank every other week etc. Closing this thread and not closing any and all others that are reported because it upsets someone is not fair.


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## bettacrazygirl86 (Jan 21, 2013)

I have to agree with Rosewynn. I've been following this thread, and I honestly think it's a little ridiculous to close this thread just because some people don't agree with it or because it isn't "child appropriate." I've seen plenty of other threads with swear words, disturbing images of dead fish, and more that I don't think are child appropriate, yet nothing happens to them. I think this thread should stay open. I would like to hear what the OP has to say later on, as far as updates on the two bettas go.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

We will decide as a team whether or not go close the thread. If we can discuss the subject in a civil manner then the thread may be left open.
The fish belong to the op and whether we agree or not, they are her fish and she can do whatever she wants and if something does happen then she'll have to live with the consequences.


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## Dwarden3 (Apr 1, 2013)

The tank is pretty big, so it could work, just keep a close eye on it.

Edit: I had a similar post about this, and we came to the conclusion that in theory, you could create a wild environment with a large enough tank. We also came to the conclusion that even if the tank was 200 gallons, with only 2 males, there is a chance for fighting/death. Imo, I would rather divide the tank or start a sorority. You could divide the tank 5 ways and still have happy bettas, and you could have so many females if you wanted a sorority. 

You can see if it will work, just understand the risk. The risk would exist even if you divided the tank because they can jump, and in a sorority, they could/will fight. If you see fighting, remove them before it worsens, otherwise, do not be surprised if something goes wrong. I do not think people should get mad at OP. Fishkeeping is about the inventiveness, and discovering ways to do things that are thought of as impossible. I know that my fish, Sigmund, is very calm, and might get along with another male, every betta is different. I don't think anyone should close the thread because valuable info has been given.


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

Personally I don't know why you wouldn't just spend the extra ten bucks to divide your tank.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

tngirl92 said:


> Personally I don't know why you wouldn't just spend the extra ten bucks to divide your tank.


Because "tink" is a guy who thinks he can prove something at the expense of the fish. 


For the record, I don't think this thread should be closed. Maybe he will learn some good tips. :sarcastic:


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Because "tink" is a guy who thinks he can prove something at the expense of the fish.
> 
> 
> For the record, I don't think this thread should be closed. Maybe he will learn some good tips. :sarcastic:


Thanks for sharing your opinion about keeping this thread open but remember in order for it to stay open we must keep any and all comments civil. There are rules for a very good reason here in our community so we must follow them and those who choose not to can be given warnings or infractions that could lead to a ban for as long as the moderators see fit. This is only a friendly reminder as I know there are no moderators who enjoy handing out any type of punishments but in some cases we have to do just that in order to make sure all rules are followed for the benefit of all our members. 

If something in this thread upsets you and you feel the need to do so please send a report or post in Discuss with Moderators so that all moderators will see the report or post and can handle them and please be patient and know that we do see and hear your concerns. Thanks


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

FWIW, OP may not be a guy. ;-)


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

Sounds like you may have gotten lucky to have two mellow males, but as others have said, I'd keep an eye on them. Are there places for them to hide if one decides to attack the other? I understand you have a large tank, but from the pictures it's hard to see if one of them could hide, if needed, from the other. I really hope that they can continue to live together peacefully. Maybe you can discuss their personalities a bit more since that may have everything to do with their ability to live together, or perhaps more about what other fish live with them? Maybe it's a mutual-survival instinct if the other fish are nipping at them/attacking them? I'm just genuinely curious about how all this turns out. 

That all being said, I know I couldn't put my two boys together, that'd be a disaster waiting to happen, but that's just because I know both their personalities and I know that one is laid back but energetic and the other is more high strung and territorial.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The truth is any time you put two critters together you're taking a chance.

Lots of people go to work and leave dogs of disparate sizes or a large dog and a cat, kitten or puppy loose together and never think twice. But being involved with rescue and being a dog trainer, I would never, ever do that. I've seen what can happen in a split second between animals that have lived together peacefully for years and it isn't pretty. To me, it's on par with putting two male Bettas in the same tank.

As a matter of fact, on a couple of canine behavior forums I'm on, threads by people who leave small/large dogs or large dogs/cats, etc., together gets just as heated as this one. And the people who do it get just as much flak.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective and experience.


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> The truth is any time you put two critters together you're taking a chance.
> 
> Lots of people go to work and leave dogs of disparate sizes or a large dog and a cat, kitten or puppy loose together and never think twice. But being involved with rescue and being a dog trainer, I would never, ever do that. I've seen what can happen in a split second between animals that have lived together peacefully for years and it isn't pretty. To me, it's on par with putting two male Bettas in the same tank.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Tic.. 
Tic..
Tic..


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Yup.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Ok, seriously.. these are domesticated fish, but the basics of the wild is still there, like with any animal. We can tame only so much, but each one still have that natural, biological drive. Some more than others, but when a captive animal gets stressed (for any reason and at any time) things can go south.. a dog will bite the owner, a lion will maul it's trainer, a betta will attack another betta. 

People who claim success usually don't have those exact same "successful" fish 1-3 years down the road. I personally do not accept a success story about keeping males together unless the males have lived together for 3+ years without any incident. Otherwise, it's call _luck_. People who have actually been successful are the people who have bred multiple generations and keep them living together all the time, haven't been separated, etc. But if someone has had 2 males living together for a month or two without death it doesn't mean they will always be like that.. it will happen that they will fight, and if they don't fight then one will die at a younger age due to constant stress fearing its life on a daily basis as he will run from the other due to self preservation. 

Like I posted in my previous post.. it generally will happen, and if not you'll end up with one stressed out, sickly fish who will not live a long life due to the stress. 

Too tired to go into the specifics and science over it all.. but as someone mentioned above - the splendens are called fighting fish for a reason


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Not only are they domesticated with the wild habits like Myates said, but they were initially bred to make them MORE aggressive.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

My boyfriend has kept a 29g with 8 betta girls and 2 boys. They were fine with each other for 2 years. Unfortunately, they all died due to hornwort that had carried over columnaris. They never had any problems and there was no flaring or fin nipping. I had a video of it on youtube, but he deleted his account a few months ago. I would've loved to share the video! Not all bettas are aggressive. I believe that it all depends on the personality of the fish. There are "miracle" fish, but not all fish conform to standards.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

It might work out it might not, a lot depends on the specific fish, both of my giants are pretty mellow and love having tank mates of other species, now my other bettas it is hit and miss depending what the tank mates are, my veiltail clown, pretty much does not care what it is he will either kill it or try to kill it, I wish you luck and hope it does not end in sadly, they are your fish you can do as you please with them, no matter what anyone says on the internet or in person


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