# FINALLY! - Black copper/Black copper



## DBanana

Got so so so tired of spawns that ended with unfertilized eggs. SO TIRED. 

Sire









Dame, a very close match to the (pictured below) Penny. She is Penny2









Introduced Sunday (29th) spawned Tuesday and Fry on Wednesday. Daddy is tending them and not eating them so I feel better about starting this dang log. 










After the eggs hatched he built a better nest


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## DBanana

I wish I had some fry pics. Unfortunately those will probably have to wait till they're moved into the fry tank from the breeding tub in a couple of weeks. Right now they're constantly drifting down from the nest and Daddy is popping them back up. The light will remain on in the meantime. 

Going to keep trying to get those photos


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

Your boy is gorgeous, can't wait to see how they turn out


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## InStitches

wow, those are going to be some gorgeous babies


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## DBanana

Who wants to play spot the babies?


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## KafkaDream

Yay fry!! Those are going to be some gorgeous bettas, to say the least. 
(I'm currently addicted to spawn logs...)


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

DBanana said:


> Who wants to play spot the babies?


I suck at this game =D but I did spot 2, great job with them, I can't wait to see how they turn out


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## DBanana

There are at least eight babies in the top photo. See if you can spot them all. ;P


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## cindygao0217

Can't spot them at all bad eyesight I guess


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## taylorrae

Wow absolutely gorgeous fish! Can't wait to see more photos!


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## amphirion

following. glad you found another dame!


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## DBanana

Worth the wait for sure, she's dear. 

 Extra careful with that cleaning hose.


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## DBanana

Fry are still alive. My camera still blows chunks. They're loving a bunch of water sprite added to their tub.


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## DBanana

I'm going to puke. I don't know what happened, the bottom of the tub is covered with itty bitty corpses. :| The water params look fine. !_!

Going to see if I can find any alive.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

Oh noes!


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## amphirion

Red dots on the heads of any fry?


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## DBanana

No. All beautiful tiny little clear fry.  

Parents are in the spawn tank again. They've been getting conditioning treatment and we'll see if they're good to go.


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## amphirion

Could be pathogenic. Might have to sterilize the entire tank. That or get a uv filter. Any leads?


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## DBanana

The only thing I could think of is some sort of ammonia spike that the plants absorbed . I didn't check on them this morning so I don't know if they were already gone by then. 

Don't know what would have caused it though. Going to keep a close eye.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

Are there any left at all?


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## amphirion

How big was the spawn size? fry like that shouldn't give such a large bioload--even in large numbers. Over feeding would have been a more appropriate culprit.


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## DBanana

Couldn't see any. Will keep an eye out over the next little while to see if any slipped past my observation. SO disappointing. Thankfully both parents look ready to go at it again.


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## DBanana

SAW A SURVIVOR!

Did a 90% water change yesterday night, because f-it. 

Went to grab a camera to see if I could get a pic and lost sight of it. So there's at least one in there. 

And I wasn't feeding them anything yet. They were quite full of the daphnia and infusoria that was in the tub (I always make sure there are food supplies in the tub before I go at it). Those were also just fine, no die off there, so starvation wasn't a problem.


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## DBanana

Now what is funny is, apparently I forgot I had a MG female in the fry tank (big daphnia/infusoria incubator, also another breeding station) when I put the copper male/female in yesterday. Woops. Distress blurred my mind.

Now the copper female is resting on one side of the tank and the MG girl and copper male are test wrapping already. :roll:


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## amphirion

Spawns like that are always interesting. I found out that one of my males is a repeat spawner. First spawn was small and incomplete (male could only wrap successfully a couple of times) so I introduced a second female after removing the first. Ended up with eggs from both females.


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## TealHoundogg

Wow, that's interesting. I have seen a video on youtube where one owner had 3 females and one unrelated male in a tank. Resulted in a sort of 'oops' spawn, the owner did separate them but the male snapped at the other fish if they got too close to the nest, didn't really bite his mate though.


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## DBanana

Saw a survivor when I got home. Couldn't catch sight of it again, so I know there's at least one. I haven't checked the adults yet. I'm a little scared to go in the kitchen.


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## TealHoundogg

I can understand that. I'm nervous about my second spawn attempt too.


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## DBanana

Well he was clearly needing to go through the whole 'chase' nip thing, where the MG girl just wanted to frikken wrap, so she's pretty beat up because she didn't run away. She's in a different tank resting now. I'm not sure if he got any eggs out of her, but the number of scales he took off...it doesn't matter. She needs recovery. 

Copper dame is playing with him now, we'll see how it goes. 

Little lone survivor was spotted again, hunting little daphnia at the surface.


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## TealHoundogg

Wow. That's different.

Sounds like your male has a bit of an alpha personality. Some bettas tend to be like that. Starts out when they're fry. The bigger and more aggressive ones snap at their brothers and sisters. They also eat first. The smaller ones are more submissive and eat last. Really no different than puppies.


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## DBanana

Dame in the other tank has breeding bars. They may have a few eggs in a nest from MG girl (guess we'll see). Lone survivor spotted again in the tub.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

Yay!


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## SiameseFightingArt

DBanana said:


> Who wants to play spot the babies?


"Ok were going to name this half" *Points to left side* "Marlin Jr and this half" *points to right side* "Coral Jr, ok were done" *walks away* XD


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## DBanana

I'm doing a daily 'spot the survivor' check.

Sire is in other tank, apparently tending something that MAY be offspring from MG girl (or should be if he got fertilized eggs off of her) but he's also flirting with the copper dame still, so I'm leaving them in. 

While Purple dude and white CT girl from the other thread recoup I've got a pair of dragons giving it a shot.


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## TealHoundogg

Hope it works out for you.


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## DBanana

The Lone Survivor actually turned out to be the Three Amigos! I emptied most of the water through a sponge and did a survey of the remains. 98% was snail poop (god I hate those things), a metric butt-tonne of daphnia and infusoria, and three little kiddos looking like pearls in pig s-it. 

Tub is set back up, considering the food supply in it they're still good. I'll likely move them over to the 10g fry tank with their couple-weeks-younger siblings when those siblings are all free swimming (most are, some aren't).


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## hrutan

Hooray! Three is better than one. Triple Trouble! =)


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## DBanana

Turns out there were four! Kind of makes up for one of my CT kids getting dropsy (  )

All are in the big fry tank with their slightly-younger siblings. Tub is settling and restocking itself with fry food before I tried again. Put sire and Dame next to each other in jars for a minute, came back to her with breeding stripes and him with a bubble nest :roll: Come on you guys, cool down for five minutes.


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## TealHoundogg

Wow, you got your hands full.


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## DBanana

Well Penny2 passed. I put her in her recovery jar, put a plastic screen on top and when I came back in the morning her screen was off and she was gone. My assumption was that the cats knocked the screen off, she jumped (there isn't enough room between the top of the jar and the next shelf, plus the lowered water level in the jar, for the cats to get their paws in) and they ate her. 

Thankfully she had just finished her third (!!!!) spawn with Mr. Man and so I've got those eggs due to hatch as well as the fry from the first two.


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## amphirion

HOLY ISHTAR! not your luck! wishing you the best!


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## DBanana

I know right? But at least, this time, I got spawns out of her before she kicked it. Makes it a lot easier to deal with.


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## TealHoundogg

So sorry about Penny, but at least you got to breed her. Might not be a bad idea to keep one of her sons or daughters.


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## DBanana

Terrible quality video but, as you can see, this last spawn was a doozy and he's a busy guy. Don't want to distract. 

http://vid3.photobucket.com/albums/...lack Copper-July2014/P7270003_zps9a0de3a7.mp4


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## DBanana

One of the quintet of first spawn survivors (largest by far, the others tend to lurk around but this one sits in front of the BBS hatcher). 

Quintets are four weeks old today and you can start to see some red wash in their fins, along with a more definitive copper colour just starting to infuse the whole body. Black will come along later. The smaller ones you see around are the 2nd spawn, 2 weeks old.


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## DBanana

3rd spawn has a lot of fry and are about half a week along. At two weeks I will add them to their brothers and sisters as part of the mass 'July Fry Grow-Out'


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## Canis

Beautiful babies! Is that one of those Hatch N Feed things? Was wondering how those worked out.


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## farmgirl82

Wow. The parents are beautiful! I am looking for a black copper male like yours. Will you be selling these offspring?


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## DBanana

They worked out well. Little pigs are always eating, heh.

I will, at the shoow in Niagara in May and possibly at the EBS show in September.


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## Canis

Awesome! I'll have to get a few if I ever decide to breed


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## DBanana

July 26 spawn hanging around the freshly washed BBS hatcher. 









July 15 spawn swimming through the grow out. 

Virtually impossible to get any shots of the quartet. Too fast.


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## Canis

Gah I want to breed so bad! Adorable babies!!!


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## DBanana

Man, I wish it was easy. These other pairs are driving me crazy


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## Canis

When is anything easy when you want it to be? x)


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## DBanana

Same fish, different angle









Some of the younger siblings in the grow out


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## DBanana




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## amphirion

coming along quite nicely. looks like solid definition between red/orange and black especially with the last two. 

would you happen to have a whole shot of the bbs hatch and feed? im debating getting one but am reluctant because of size.


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## DBanana

http://vid3.photobucket.com/albums/...lack Copper-July2014/P8160046_zps59c6143c.mp4

I have run successfully for two weeks in a deep 2g tub where the water was only partially up the opening that the BBS swim out of but they fit comfortably in a 10g and I have one in both my 10g fry tank and my 20g grow out.


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## DBanana

Got us a little pale one. Almost looks cambodian.


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## DBanana

Some of the youngest spawn have some SBD symptoms. I'm wondering if I started them on BBS too early, or if they were just so greedy they ate into it. They've just hit over the 1 month mark so I'm keeping an eye on what's going on, but no plans to cull at this point.


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## amphirion

Do you use decapped shrimp? I heard bbs shells contribute to sbd, I've had minimal to no problems with decapped.


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## DBanana

I use a BBS hatchery where the live BBS swims out, no shells.


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## MattsBettas

I've always read and thought that overfeeding BBS, shells or not, is what causes/contributes to sbd. I've seen breeders I know experience the issue, and I've never had issues with sbd and I feed BBS sparingly. 

I would shut down the hatchery for a few days and let them live on microworms, and they should recover.


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## DBanana

I've moved them into the 20g grow out where they aren't the biggest fish in the tank, it'll be a little harder for them to gorge during feeding.


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## hrutan

I've been told it's best to alternate BBS meals with something else, if feeding BBS. The fry just seem to have a harder time digesting them.


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## DBanana

I think I might have the wrong idea of what SBD is. The ones in my tank aren't floating and having trouble swimming, they have a short 'bubble' (swim bladder) compared to the others and their tail constantly sinks. They're active, eat well, and have to swim harder to get to the surface (the others cruise near the surface).


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## MattsBettas

That's a type of sbd, and is actually what's typically seen when it's caused by overfeeding bbs. You might see it referred to tail sinking or belly sliding.


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## DBanana

Ahhh, I'd classify it as developmental sbd, as opposed to onset sbd.


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## DBanana

First separated male


















Another kiddo









My random!cellophane


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## BlueSky99

I'm interested to see how the younger ones turn out


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## myexplodingcat

Wow, that's a really nice and really random cellophane. He looks nothing like his siblings.


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## Nimble

Keep an eye on that 'cellophane' fish. Sometimes they're just prone to getting their colors late, as can be seen in many Spawn Logs.

Beautiful fish, wish I had the money to buy one when you start selling.


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## DBanana

I'm really picky about anal fins so I've got one eye up against the glass staring at them to see if they're developing properly. I hope they grow into them.

Both parents had really good anal fins so I hope any grandparent flaws don't show up.


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## DBanana

Northfin pellets and brine shrimp agree with him. Sadly his ventrals are far from perfect. 









Cellophane (boy I think). Brine shrimp and pellets agree with him too









Terrible photo (camera battery died, will have to wait till I can recharge) of another mostly cellophane boy









Large mostly black female, mostly stressed from being moved but she's a big s-t disturber


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

So more than 1 cello?


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## DBanana

Yup, from the last spawn in July. Pulled him from the fry tank and he's growing like a weed.


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## jr591

I hope this spawn is successful! Following this log.


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## DBanana

Very. One of the girls escaped her section and bred with an old CT,waitingto see if those hatch. 

Work hasbeen hectic so I haven't had the chance to upload photos.


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## DBanana

Haven't updated in a while. The red finned boy has developed into a red/black butterfly. He's going to Grandmaman in Alberta next week. 










These two are in the spawn tank. Hard to get photos of them. 
Boy








Girl









The ones still in the grow out


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## DBanana

Came home to this. Good spawn within 24 hours. Nice set of eggs on the underside, quite pleased.


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## DBanana

My 'koi' baby.


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## indobettafish

awesome


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## Nimble

Who're the parents of the new spawn you just got? What do you expect from them?


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## DBanana

The parents were
Sire (F1) (With a sticky back apparently, when he was picking up eggs they kept sticking to his body)









Dame (ended up going with another girl, he ate all the eggs from the first batch, I don't think they were fertile)









Got about a dozen fry going in the fry tank I can see. They're still too small to add to the larger fry tank. 

At this point, my intention is to continue in the black/copper line, with a good shiny colouring on the scales without the gold colouring (truly black). I want good straight rays and a good spread, but not too large finnage.


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## Nimble

I've noticed a lot of your guys have a sort of feathertail or rosetail going on. Is that intentional, or just what you had with your spawn? Any with more even finnage?


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## DBanana

Hard to tell at this stage.


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## DBanana

I'm keeping an eye on outcrossing to a plakat to reduce the over-branching but that's not settled yet.


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## BettaMummy87

o.o I so want to buy one of your girls. Export would probably blow that out of the water though... :/


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## DBanana

Come up for the show in May


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## BettaMummy87

DBanana said:


> Come up for the show in May


Whilst I have inlaws in Ontario who i would love to visit and would let us stay in the right country (even the right province! D, a trip from the UK with a 6yo and a 2yo... *shudders*.... I'll just dream XD


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## Nimble

More pictures! I'm really interested in that pretty 'koi' you posted a pic of. Has he colored up more?


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## DBanana

BettaMummy87 said:


> Whilst I have inlaws in Ontario who i would love to visit and would let us stay in the right country (even the right province! D, a trip from the UK with a 6yo and a 2yo... *shudders*.... I'll just dream XD


I have a 5 yo so he could entertain them!


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## DBanana

Nimble said:


> More pictures! I'm really interested in that pretty 'koi' you posted a pic of. Has he colored up more?


Turns out there are a number of black/yellow koi, though I think my "Baby" is still the prettiest for now.

My camera wont keep a charge so it's hard to get decemt shots before it dies, I've got one girl who is amazing, trying to get good pics of her.


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## DBanana

These are the best photos I'm going to get on this camera. I hope Santa brings me a nice one for Christmas. *crosses fingers*

She's a LOVELY girl. Black body, red fins but the gold is so well defined. She's keeping the betta persephone tank (in progress) filled while things get moved along.


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## Nimble

Is she going to be the Dame for your F2 project? If so, she's fairly pretty. Kinda worried about her head-shape, though. She's not spoon-headed... but it's not that perfect, neat curve you want.

Regardless, she's beautiful.


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## DBanana

I'm aware of my fish's shape. And to be fair, a lot of people prefer a smooth topline over a hunchback.


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## Nimble

Oh, I know. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Her topline is very nice, but it could be MORE smooth. Maybe I should be quiet.

But again, my question. Is she going to be the mother of an F2, or just one for your personal collection?


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## BettaMummy87

DBanana said:


> I have a 5 yo so he could entertain them!


It is so tempting, but tehre is still taht uberlong plane ride to get there! lol.  Plus, hubby might go mental if I suggested we go look at fish after dragging him to Canada. He'd see *riiiiight* through it... 

"Oh, look darling, a betta show! What a coincidence!" >.>;; 

Lol.


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## BettaMummy87

Also, I need that female... >.<


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## DBanana

Nimble said:


> Oh, I know. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Her topline is very nice, but it could be MORE smooth. Maybe I should be quiet.
> 
> But again, my question. Is she going to be the mother of an F2, or just one for your personal collection?


She'll be for sale. I love her,but her dark-cherry look isn't what I'm going for, colour-wise.


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## Nimble

She wouldn't have happened to be one of the original surviving five, would she?


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## BettaMummy87

DBanana said:


> She'll be for sale. I love her,but her dark-cherry look isn't what I'm going for, colour-wise.


I hate hearing this.... she is exactly what I want to breed my new male to.  Typical.


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## Aqua Aurora

HAH cheater! I see you stuffing the pennywort under that rock to anchor it! ^^
I usually push pennywort down enough that the bottom most leaf get buried in the substrate to help anchor it till roots form, but then the leaf is broken down and just re-nourishes the plant.
btw pretty gal.


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## DBanana

Nimble said:


> She wouldn't have happened to be one of the original surviving five, would she?


Hard to tell, I kept all three spawns together in one tank. 



Aqua Aurora said:


> HAH cheater! I see you stuffing the pennywort under that rock to anchor it! ^^
> I usually push pennywort down enough that the bottom most leaf get buried in the substrate to help anchor it till roots form, but then the leaf is broken down and just re-nourishes the plant.
> btw pretty gal.


The pennywort is pushed into the substrate, the volcano just shifted on top of it while I was doing some landscaping. 



BettaMummy87 said:


> I hate hearing this.... she is exactly what I want to breed my new male to.  Typical.


Come on! Your husband should let you indulge in some big things for what you love.  If you come you can have her for free.


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## BettaMummy87

DBanana said:


> Come on! Your husband should let you indulge in some big things for what you love.  If you come you can have her for free.


Now that is both incredibly kind and incredibly mean! XD lmbo.


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## DBanana

Hey, I've got my niece coming from Baltimore because it's the first show since the seventies. It's just a district show but it'll be great!

Come!


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## BettaMummy87

Haha, maybe if we can find £1800 for flights. That would be one expensive fish.... lol!


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## DBanana

Pfff, it wouldn't just be the fish you'd be getting. 

Oh well. I wish I could ship her to the UK (there ought to have been some sort of arrangement so that a common-wealth can send stuff over without a ton of hassle).


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## BettaMummy87

DBanana said:


> Pfff, it wouldn't just be the fish you'd be getting.
> 
> Oh well. I wish I could ship her to the UK (there ought to have been some sort of arrangement so that a common-wealth can send stuff over without a ton of hassle).


You never know. Maybe we will win the lottery between now and then XD

I know, right? But import/export is such a royal pain in the butt. So much for wanting to promote trading, eh?


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## DBanana

A couple of my koi kids


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## BettaBoy51

Nice! i love the first one how many are left?


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## ellekay

I like the white koi!


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## DBanana

My only true full marble so far. Little snookums

Semi-flare at his brother, NOT the best view of his topline but he doesn't take side pictures very well (mostly because he's right up at the camera going 'WHAT IS THIS?')









Top views. I love the russet coloured scales on his top-fore.









'WHAT IS IT!?! Why did you move it up top?!'


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## BettaLover1313

Beautiful young bettas!


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## Madsnake

KafkaDream said:


> Yay fry!! Those are going to be some gorgeous bettas, to say the least.
> (I'm currently addicted to spawn logs...)


Me too ! ;-)


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## DBanana

Well since no one wants Black Cherry I went ahead and culled her.




...I'm kidding. I threw her in a spawn tub with 









He's being brought in to see if we can get the rosetail under control and clean up the ventrals. She is happy to see him, if by happy you mean breeding stripes but also beating the snot out of him.


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## Canis

Lol poor boy. Gorgeous!


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