# Lump on Side



## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

While doing a water change today I noticed a large lump on my fish's side. It has been there for a few days, but he is prone to bloating so I didn't think much of it. However it is much larger today. Over the past few days I've been feeding him 3 pellets over the course of the day, hoping it would go down. 

He is surfacing frequently for air, and seems to be having more trouble than usual doing it. At this point I'm thinking 1 tbs epsom salts predissolved as I know they will not damage my plants.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 g
What temperature is your tank? 80F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? N/A

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Omega One Betta Buffet
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2x per day, 2 pellets each time

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Every week or 1 1/2 weeks
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 75%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? No

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Large lump has been growing on his left side stomach area
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Struggles to swim to surface, surfaces frequently for air. Also lists slightly to the side. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2-3 days ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I have not
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Fin rot when I first got him, bloating problems earlier this year
How old is your fish (approximately)? ~3 years

Is it possible this could be a tumor or something internal? I am hoping it is bloat or SBD...


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## brandiibliss (Jan 13, 2013)

I'll have to keep up with the answers you get because our betta looks almost exactly the same! His opposite side was swollen at one point too but he's back to looking like your guy.

Does yours have any scales that stick out any? Ours has a few and we're told it's likely dropsy. 5 days of Maracyn 2 and epsom salts helped some but we're looking for a second plan now.

Good luck!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Your fish is emaciated except for the belly.. He is too skinny for what you are feeding him.. that looks like either TB or advanced internal parasites.. 

What color is his poop? 

His fins look pretty ratty from that angle too, but it's hard to tell..

I can't tell.. do the scales look raised? 

You need to increase your water changes. For a tank that size, most people will tell you that you can't ever fully cycle it and you will always need two water changes a week of 50% and 100%. Others will say that eventually once the bb establishes as much as it can (which can take up to 2 months) a twice weekly 50% water change including a small gravel vac or stir/dip method will be required. Anytime you're not doing weekly 100% water changes and relying on a cycle you should own a drops kit for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and keep an eye on the levels. Especially with an old boy like that he will be very sensitive. Ammonia should be 0, nitrite should be 0 and nitrate should be <20ppm and the lower the better.

Definitely increase your water changes.. do several smaller water changes back to back to avoid shocking and get your water tested.

In the meantime I would monitor poop, use epsoms depending on the poop maybe look into feeding a medicated feed or using some kind of internal antibiotic (depending on source of issue) is probably needed. Feeding will cure parasites and a lot of bacterial - using a source of metro (like API General Cure) and seachem's garlic guard (optional). Good internal antibiotics would be like Kanaplex + Furan 2 or maracyn Plus.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

*@Brandii*
I'm sorry to hear that! His scales do look slightly raised, but only over the bump. Good luck to your boy as well, hopefully we'll both be able to solve this.

*@Callistra*
Wow, definitely not what I was expecting. I added another picture, the last one was at a weird angle. If it is TB should I be doing anything to sanitize? I cleaned his tank today and everything went through the vac was brown. It's hard to tell with the plant matter, but there was nothing clear or white. I hardly ever see him poop and I have a suspicion he hasn't recently, hence my expecting sbd or bloat. 

His fins have been getting ratting recently, but I assumed it was just old age. The scales are raised slightly over the bump.

I did a water change today. My bad on the water changes. I used to do them so frequently I got told to do less, I guess I just bumped them down too much. I do have a filter stuffed full of media and around 10 plants if that helps.

So at this point should I be buying parasite meds or something else?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I think I would treat him with medicated feed and not antibiotics in the water in this case.. because he is so emaciated and he has something called GI dropsy (raised scales only on abdomen) these are both signs of internal parasites. 

Plants and things will help your water quality but you should still always do weekly water changes of some kind. You may not need full 100% with the plants then because plants don't like that (unless it's a floater in my limited experience). You definitely should be using a drops test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate if you want to do less than 100% weekly so you know.

He definitely has fin rot and then the GI dropsy..

I don't want to do a bath and feed because he's so old so I think getting his water quality under control, some epsoms and feed should hopefully clear this up.

Use epsom salt (100% pure magnesium sulfate with no dyes perfumes or additives of any kind via the ingredients label) at a rate of 1 tsp per gallon. You should predissolved it and add it very slowly over the course of an hour or more because it will drop your ph and you don't want to shock him. The salts will not evaporate or break down so you only need to replace them when you do a water change, and then only replace as much as the amount of water you replace. They are safe to use as long as he's sick.. use at minimum 2 weeks and until no more raised scales but I'd aim more for 3-4 personally.

You should also look for a source of metronidazole (API General Cure is a good one and easy to find.. you don't want a lot of extra ingredients but the Prazi is good. You can always use Seachem's Metro in the blue tube). You want to use a good soaking pellet (one with lots of wheat) and if you choose you can get Seachem Garlic Guard or Fresh Water Vitachem. You take some amount of the liquid of your choice into a cup of some kind (garlic guard, vitachem or dechlorinated water) and add (some people use full packet of GC I've seen half too, I've only used full dose of the Seachem which is one scoop metro + one scoop focus) the meds to the liquid and dissolve it as well as you can. Then add in the pellets and soak them 15 minutes. Feed two twice a day for 3-4 weeks. You need to mix this up fresh at least daily, if not fresh each feed. The meds will lose their effectiveness and won't keep past that.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Sorry about this, I'm running short on time. Not sure if I'll be able to get a response before I go.

-API general cure
-Wheat heavy pellets
-Epsoms

Thanks


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yep. That works. Also vitachem or garlic guard, if you want.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Alright, I managed to get everything and I'm adding the epsom salts now, but I'm not quite sure how to do the general cure. It says one packet for 10 gallons but I have a 2.5. Is there a way to split up the packets without a scale, and how often should I dose? It says dose once, wait 48 hours and dose again and that's it. Is that long enough to get rid of the parasites?

Edit: are parasites always present in the water? I don't feed live food and haven't added any plants recently, or for that matter any plants that don't come from a tube.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You don't dose the water. You use it to feed just the way I wrote above..


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Sorry, I worded that poorly. What I'm trying to say is, do I need to use a whole packet to soak the pellets or is there a way to split it up? If I don't there won't be enough packets to feed for 3-4 weeks.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I've always used a full dose to soak, but I've always used Seachem brand. I've read where people just eyeball split up half a packet and that seems to work. I think the relative dosage to Seachem is 1 scoop is half the GC packet.

You are probably eventually going to need to buy another box.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Right on, looks like I'll need two to finish. I've fed him the medicated pellets and got the epsom salt in. Thanks for all the help, really.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You're very welcome! Report back after a few days and let us know how it goes..


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

So it's day 5 of treatment and nothing really seems to have changed, other than the fact he likes the soaked pellets so much I'm afraid he won't want to go back to the other ones. The lump is still there, it hasn't gone down but the scales around the area do seem to be flatter. He still has trouble swimming, and it must be noticeable because my mom has even commented on it, and she claims she doesn't see any sort of lump on him. I'm gonna keep on trucking and hope to see some changes soon.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

So at this point he is definitely getting worse. The lump or swelling or whatever it is has moved to the bottom of his stomach as well as the side. It hasn't traveled to the other side yet, but I assume it is going to. At this point he looks like one of those grossly distended fish on google search, except with bloating on one side as well.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

He's being fed the GC soaked pellets for about a week now? 4 a day, yes? What pellets did you end up soaking?

He's also been in 1 tsp per gallon epsom salts for about a week? I would increase to 2 tsp per gallon. 

Are the scales still pine coned or have those still gotten better?

Is he pooping daily? What color is it? The bloat on the bottom could be he's not pooping them out and getting constipated..

Photos?


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Yes. Pellets are Tetra Betta Plus w/ color enhancers, wheat as the first ingredient. 

2 tsp/gallon would bring it up to 5 tsp total correct? 

I never see him poop, hadn't been paying too much attention because of the epsom salts... Picture at bottom, sorry for poor quality. The bloat or lump on the bottom has doubled in size since yesterday.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry he's not responding to the pellets 

I would increase epsom salts and hold off feeding a couple days. Watch for poop and see if his belly doesn't calm down some.. hopefully it will..

For 2.5g that's 5 tsp epsoms.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

He's been in the epsoms and fasted since my last post with no improvement

I'm going to start feeding him again just to improve quality of life unless you have other suggestions...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It's important to watch for his poop while he looks like this.. you need to be able to confirm that what you are feeding he is pooping out, even if you need to QT float him for a few days to see it. The fact that his belly is increasing like these means either his infection is spreading or he's not pooping and it's really important to determine which.

I would be looking for ways to give his immune system a boost. If you can find it Fresh Water Vitachem is an awesome and best way I've found. You can add it directly to the tank at 2 drops per gallon - it's safe for all fish and plants as it's basically a fish multivitamin. You can also use it as the soaking ingredient when you are feeding these pellets.

If it's not parasites then he really does.. and I didn't want to say it at first because in my experience is that it's pretty rare and parasites were far more likely.. look pretty fish tb ish... and the treatment for this is kanaplex + furan 2 + vitachem for a month.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Woke up this morning to see that he had pooped. It was the same color as the pellets but stringy. His stomach looks to be about the same size I think, I'll try to get a picture up sometime today. There does appear to be greyish discoloration near his face. 

Regarding tuberculosis, I do not feed live or frozen food if that makes a difference for the probability of internal parasites. Reading about tuberculosis in fish it seems that many people say once symptoms show they cannot be cured. In the case that it is marine tb are there any precautions I should take beside washing my hands with hot + soapy water?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I suggest aquarium safe gloves if you can find them, and if not then just hot water and lots of soap... make sure you don't transfer the soap back to the tank though.

Well.. if he's pooping same color as the pellets and fasting for 4 days and seeing the poop hasn't changed his appearance then I would say it's safe to say it's not just normal constipation.

Other things to consider is it may just be a tumor but considering how skinny he is otherwise.. I think Metro and Prazi together would likely get rid of any parasites (what one doesn't touch the other should take care of so it's a pretty well rounded approach).. he's been on it for like 2 weeks right? So I'm going to say not the problem here


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

I doubt that it is a tumor due to the size and how quickly it grew. It is all below and around his stomach area. The two things that give me hope it isn't tb are the size and the fact no more lumps have occurred, and that he is still eating. The lump is definitely still more prominent on one side and the scales are still raised. Also I see air bubbles come from his gills every now and then and he seems to be holding a gill open because of the size of the lump.

So at this point should I stop soaking the pellets with general cure? I think he may be reluctant to go back to boring old omega one.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

He's been on GC 2 weeks right? You would have seen some positive change at this point if it was going to work after 2 weeks.. Sorry. 

I'm not really sure why he loves the medicated pellets so much.. are you soaking them in garlic guard? That may be why not the meds.

I would switch to antibiotic bath + vitachem. Kanaplex or Kanaplex + furan 2.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Alright, I'll discontinue it tonight. I am not using garlic guard. I may continue to feed him wheat pellets if he likes them so much, don't want to deny him the pleasure if it is near the end of his life. 

A quick check of petco + petsmart website shows that neither stock kanaplex, but I have found it on ebay shipping from NY. Do think it would be fresh or should I try to find another source?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I would not continue to feed the wheat pellets without a soak. I'd be afraid of creating constipation issues. You can look for some New Life Spectrum Betta or Thera A 1mm (don't get the bigger ones they do have some large ones.. or you could crush up the big ones too into smaller bits I suppose) to try because they're loaded up on garlic and he will probably love them. Petco carries them both, or at least my local one does. The Thera A have some fruit and veggie extract and my fish tend to pass them too quickly imho so I only feed the thera A once or twice a week because they seem to be working like a laxative on mine but they sure do help with bloating if there is any other underlying issue here around constipation.

You can get kanaplex, furan 2 and vitachem all here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com It also has Thera A

I can also ship kanaplex to you, possibly faster. I don't know about vitachem being in stock atm and Furan 2 I have to drive an hour for, but I have to ship out metro and focus to another forum member today anyway so I'm headed to the pet store w/ the kanaplex right now. If you want me to get you some pm me with an address I can use.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Sent you a pm, thank you so much. 

I checked that website a while ago actually, it says they won't have kanaplex until early feb. I'll be on the look out for NLS and vitachem when I go to the store next. Is there anything else I can do for him at this point? Should I be do more or less frequent water changes? I don't want to stress him and accelerate it.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Got your pm. Will ship tomorrow once the post opens.

Remind me what kind of water changes you are doing now? I know there are plants and you have a filter but it's a small tank. Do you have any way to test? You don't want him to see any ammonia but maybe twice weekly 50% changes are enough with the plants and the filter. This should not be stressful if it is enough, as long as you replace the water with same temp water.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

A 75% weekly in the 2.5. I have no way to test right now. My concern is that I have to cup him because he follows the vacuum and tries to swim into it. I could try without removing him, his behavior might be different with this.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'd try 50% twice weekly with leaving him in the tank but I would really highly suggest finding an ammonia drops test kit. If he can't be trusted the leave the vacuum alone though then he may need to be cupped.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Woke up this morning to see only his eyes moving. He did eventually get swimming and eat but I thought for sure he wouldn't last the day. He did but it surprised me. 

Alright, will do for the water changes. As for the test kit, I still live with my parents and they won't allow it. I'm having a hard enough time convincing them the medicine isn't a waste of money.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm really sorry  Kanaplex is on its way but I'm not sure it's going to help at this point. I hope so..


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

He's still alive and well enough to need to be cupped during water changes. 

I got the kanaplex today, thank you so much. I added it to the water by dissolving one flat scoop into one cup of water, and pouring 1/2 cup into the tank. I hope I've done it correctly.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

1 scoop treats 5g so you're good. I also have to warn you I have no idea how your plants will react to the med so just a head's up. It will toast your cycle though..


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Alright good. I looked and couldn't find much, but one person on the seachem forums did say that it didn't affect their plants. I'll watch them though, I don't want an ammonia spike. Not too worried about cycle in a 2.5.

Should I be doing water changes more frequently with the kanaplex in? Also do you suggest following the dosing instructions for 1 dose every 2 days for up to 3 doses?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes. I would do a 50% change every other day (same temp water and all that) and a 100% change at week's end.

Let us know how it goes..


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Kanaplex seems to be having no effect. His back is starting to bend slightly due to the size of his stomach I believe. Despite this he still chases his food eagerly and begs. I will add the final dose tomorrow, but I think is too late for him..

I have been doing research and am thinking of writing a thread to help others avoid this.


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## maycausedeath (Jan 29, 2011)

Sorry for not updating.

He is still alive and eating. He prefers to hang by the tops of the tank unmoving unless he sees me, but he goes after his food voraciously. I think he has trouble moving because of the lump and the curve in his spine it has caused. I half think that the kanaplex killed off the or reduced the mycobacterium and now he's just left with the inconvenience of the granulomas. 

I woke up this morning to find the winter storm had arrived. Either the power went out or his heater is damaged because his tank was a frigid 60F this morning. I've gotten it back up to 70, but the heater seems reluctant to go any higher. I've got a towel wrapped around the tank and the lamp on, he has no behavioral changes. Is there anything I can do to keep the temperature up?

edit: just watched him poop, it has a clear almost webby segment in it...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm sorry  What a fighter.. 

He still has an internal infection then. Again we're back to either bacterial or parasite in nature.. 

I would be careful about warming him back up too quickly. That could cause shock. General guideline is no more than 5 degrees per day and 1 per hour


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