# My Buddy Disappointed Me



## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I got home early from school one day and found my Betta chasing my Loach. When he was younger I used behavioral training to make him calm around other fish. When I noticed this I tapped on the glass and stared at him. He must have felt bad cause he soon after went into his fish house and avoided eye contact with me for the rest of the day. Should I worry about him attacking my other fish too? I mean I did all that training. He has not been himself lately much either. He's always resting on the rocks instead of his favorite plant never happy anymore? Could he be getting to his last moments? What do I do?


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

Uh....A no amount of "training" will make a betta go against nature.


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

It might be best to move him to a new tank, or the others, sometime no matter what we do, they can try to attack a tank mate without warning, it's just their nature. Since he isn't feeling himself, maybe that's also causing some aggression. Some Bettas are suitable for tank mates, and some aren't, and sometimes things can change.But definitely get him by himself, maybe that will help him calm down, and get him feeling better. If not you'll be able to find out what's wrong and treat accordingly without putting the other fish at risk.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

You do realize that tapping on the glass sends shock waves through the whole tank, stressing not only the Betta, but whatever tankmates he has in there, right?
All you're teaching every creature in your tank is every time they see you something bad could happen. 
These are not dogs, their brains aren't that complex.


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

Sounds like your betta is stressed in that tank. I like DangerousAngel's suggestion to put him in his own tank. You might see that he will become a happy little fish once more. 

Also, the teaching methods you are using are methods of intimidation, there is no value in it!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Betta that are fine with tank mates are that way because of their nature; not because of anything we do.

Betta are unpredictable fish and some, after a period of time, become not-so-tolerant of tank mates. I had one, Dexter, who was fine with tank mates for two years. Then one day I watched him "stalk" a Chili Rasbora like a cat stalks a mouse. I moved him immediately. I suggest you do the same for your boy.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Off topic but I feel like I should mention this:

That training method won't work with dogs either. You can't correct an instinctive behavior. Keep in mind that our pets are not little humans with no feet. They're animals. They have instincts, not feelings. It's important to respect and consider these instincts when working with any animal.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Personally I don't think it's possible for any sort of behaviour modification, short of selective breeding for docility, to lessen aggression in a fish. 

There are certainly individuals that are naturally passive, and that can cohabitate peacefully with other species of fish in a community setting. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum there are individuals that are simply too aggressive to tolerate any sort of close proximity to other fish, and they are likely to harass, injure, or even kill these perceived threats/intruders. 

If your training method was simply to tap on the glass when your fish was behaving aggressively, it's likely this acted as a temporary distraction at best, and a potential source of stress at worst. 

As to the change in your behaviour, it could be that your fish is sick, or that there is an issue with the conditions of your tank (such as poor water quality). 

Unfortunately, it seems you have fallen into the trap of anthropomorphism. You are attributing human emotions onto an organism that operates on a very basic level. I personally would be extremely surprised if in the future it was proven that fish were capable of experiencing anything approaching happiness or shame. What is more likely is that the fish is sick or stressed, and this is why its behaviour has changed.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> All you're teaching every creature in your tank is every time they see you something bad could happen.


I agree, 

You don't want your fish to be afraid of you. Even after only 5 days of having him my new boy Ozzie is learning fast about the finger that feeds, He has already taken a pellet from my finger, Just wet the tip of your finger and put a pellet on it, hold it just above the water and your betta will take the pellet.

None of my fish are afraid of me or my hand when its in the tank, This can also be a pain because the fish are always getting in your way when you a doing something like moving ornaments or planting.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Seren27 said:


> Off topic but I feel like I should mention this:
> 
> That training method won't work with dogs either. You can't correct an instinctive behavior. Keep in mind that our pets are not little humans with no feet. They're animals. They have instincts, not feelings. It's important to respect and consider these instincts when working with any animal.


No, it won't, aversion training just doesn't do anything but make creatures.afraid of you. No animal understands getting smacked, which is basically what you're doing to every fish in the tank. Hitting only makes them fearful.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well he won't attack the other fish when I'm in the room, I "had" an isolation tank. My sister stole it cause her guppies had babies. When he does attack or at least try (The Loach is way too fast for him) it is when my loach is up in the higher areas of the tank above all the decorations. Do you think maybe my betta has claimed the surface as his territory? Also I used to have a bowl, but my sister's friends came over and they broke it, my sister hid the evidence. I eventually found out. I don't know what to do. He won't attack with the light on. If you leave the light on it can make algee. I'm afraid he's getting old. I really don't wanna loose my buddy. Could this be his last lap?


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

The _whole tank_ is the betta's territory. He isn't attacking because he's old, he's attacking because that's what bettas do naturally. Some do okay in a community tank.... until they don't. 

What size tank is it? Are there any other fish in the tank besides the betta and one loach? I get the impression that it is a smaller tank. You should separate the betta from the other fish. This means setting up a second tank, or rehoming either the betta or the other fish.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

He doesn't attack the other fish when you're not in the room? How do you know that? Everyone else is right, he needs to be separated. For the other fish's sake and so you're not constantly worried over it.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Surf craigslist. People often sell used large tanks for little money. Sometimes eBay works too. For the mean time he can sit in a critter keepe until the new tank arrives. The sooner he gets separated the better it is for everyone.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

*When I'm in Sight.*

I tend to notice that he will chase the other fish around when I turn the light off. This is because he can't see me. He does not do this often.

What Size: 5.5 Gallons
Other Tank Mates: 1 snail, 2 loaches, 2 cory catfish...that might be it..I thought I had more. 

Note: I have a ton of decorations in my tank, the betta does not see every fish on a daily basis, they tend to hide unless they are hungry. There are many places for them to hide. People say my tank in overpopulated. To take care of that I just have to deep clean my tank more than usual. 

My betta was actually social with the other guys in my tank when I got him so I don't know why he's changing. I love my buddy so much. Anymore questions ask away. If you guys really want to know more about my tank I update my fish album almost weekly (Used to anyway, I'll get back into the habbit of doing that daily again) You will find all my tankmates Current and Past. Pics of my deep cleaning and my betta's daily lazy life. 

P.S. Please don't make this a bad thread where I get tons of insults about how i'm putting my fish at risk and how I don't deserve to be on bettafish.com, Those things really do hurt me you know.


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

The tank is way overstocked. No wonder he is attaching the other fish. Loaches need to be with at least one other loach, and cories need to be with 5+ other cories. No, I am not insulting you either.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

BettaFire682 said:


> I tend to notice that he will chase the other fish around when I turn the light off. This is because he can't see me. He does not do this often.
> 
> What Size: 5.5 Gallons
> Other Tank Mates: 1 snail, 2 loaches, 2 cory catfish...that might be it..I thought I had more.
> ...


Did you read this? Please note the part I bold faced.



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Betta that are fine with tank mates are that way because of their nature; not because of anything we do.
> 
> Betta are unpredictable fish and some, after a period of time, become not-so-tolerant of tank mates. *I had one, Dexter, who was fine with tank mates for two years.* Then one day I watched him "stalk" a Chili Rasbora like a cat stalks a mouse. I moved him immediately. I suggest you do the same for your boy.


On another note: You really do have inappropriate fish for a 5.5 gallon. They are crowding your boy out of his territory and he's stressed which, indeed, can lead to compromised health and, eventually, death. In addition, Cory are shoaling fish and need a minimum of six to keep them healthy and secure. And if the other fish are hiding it's just another indication your tank is unbalanced. Normal behavior in a large-enough aquarium is not hiding. It is out and active. Overstocking/too many fish is not a matter of bioload; it's a matter of each fish having enough room to swim and carve out its own space. That won't happen in a 5.5 with your stocking.

You have to make a decision: Either let him have the 5.5 alone and healthy or leave things as they are and have him lead a less-than-healthy and shorter life.

No matter our age, when we take on pets we take on the responsibility to make sure they have the best life they can. Your boy is exhibiting behavior that shows he's not having such.

BTW, no one is trying to insult you; some might not be as tactful as others but the intent to help is there. You came to the Forum with a problem. We've told you what must be done to keep your boy healthy and safe. It's up to you to decide what happens from here.

Good Luck.

ADDENDUM: He is chasing the other fish when the lights are off not because he can't see _you_ but because they can't see _him_. Makes a successful attack much easier.


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## Kaxen (Mar 3, 2013)

Corys and loaches need bigger groups than that to feel safe IIRC. 

Bioload isn't the only problem in a heavily stocked tank. They need space to swim around.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Like I said there is one other loach but he is not very lively and tends not to swim around, he enjoys dark and tight spaces so I know he is safe. Same thing with the corys except they are always together. If one cory gets chases the other swims up to the betta and nips his tail fin and it scares the betta away. 

I forgot to mention I have an algae eater too. What I'm really worried about is the age of my betta and how long he has left to live. If you can help me with that, that would make me a whole lot happier. 

Like I said before I have pics of my tank and fish on my profile. I'll update it tonight for you guys ok?


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well I can't upgrade my tank till i move out, mom's choice not mine. Plus when my betta moves on I think I'll just go back to basic tank fish. But I won't leave the blog. No way. My loach is really happy, hes the most active and if you stick your finger in the tank he will nibble on it, hence his name "nibbler" I need to know his age. Google says that they can survive only 2 years in captivity.


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

We aren't trying to insult you or make you feel bad. It has to be upsetting to you that your tank isn't the harmonious place you once thought it was. (((Hugs)))

But, listen to what you yourself have said:

You've noticed that your betta is chasing one of your loaches 
Your other fish hide unless it is feeding time
You thought you had more fish

Dear, your betta is attacking your other fish, and had probably killed some without you even noticing. Having places for your other fish to hide isn't a solution. You aren't a bad person for wanting all of those fish to live peacefully in that tank, but it isn't working. I would get your betta his own tank, a 2.5 gallon or larger, and keep the other tank as a community tank. Otherwise, you should rehome the loaches and cory catfish. The snail can stay.

I know that you love your buddy, and you want the best for him. We are trying to help you figure out how to do this, and to avoid unnecessary stress (and worse) for your other fish as well.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Once a fish reaches adulthood there's no physical way of telling their age unless you pick up the phone and call the breeder. 

You don't need to upgrade. Just pick up another tank, 2.5 or 3 is fine, and house the Betta alone. Some of your fish needs the same thing. If you can't get all of them the proper housing, you need to either return or rehome them to someone who can. 

Nobody is insulting you. Being told you're wrong doesn't equal being bullied. People go wrong all the time. Not just you, all of us too. That's how we learn.


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

OK....I am a little appalled by your callousness. 

Your mom is giving you an perimeter in which to work in but you are trying to cram as much as possible in there with no regard to how this must be for the creatures. If you are thinking you are old enough to take on the responsibility of the life of another being then you must put your own wishes aside!

1)Research the needs and requirements of the species of your fish
2)Research compatibility
3)Choose your tank inhabitants accordingly

Sadly there aren't that many choices for small tanks, but there are a few. Make it your mission to create the best little, happy tank you can and try and maintain it disease free and for as long as possible. Once you are old enough to have your own place and decide which size tank you can afford to keep and maintain you can put all that knowledge to good use.

To your question, it is hard to tell how long a fish might have left to live. A lot of bettas seem to be at the end of their lifetime already at the age of two, whereas others might live to see 5 or even 6 years.

I hope you will take pity on your fish and find a place to re-home them to. You could advertise them on a Craig's List of some sort for your area, but please do not meet anyone without your mom or other adult present!!!!


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

1. I can't return them.. they won't take them (it's been too long)
2. My sister's friend busted my fish bowl
3. I also have an algae eater
4. I said I thought I had more because I never really count them
5. Not ALL fish hide I just have not had time to update my album Nibbler is as active as a puppy that drank 100 gallons of monster.
6. *Forgot what I was going to post*
7. I'll update my album tonight, I promise. 
8. Have anymore questions or thoughts?


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Note: This reply mostly applys to Netti

I read the first paragraph in your post and felt too much negativity. Plus, I lost my job so there will be no more fish added to my tank, I just wanna know how much more my betta has to live...


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

BettaFire682 said:


> Note: This reply mostly applys to Netti
> 
> I read the first paragraph in your post and felt too much negativity. Plus, I lost my job so there will be no more fish added to my tank, I just wanna know how much more my betta has to live...


I am sorry that you lost your job, and I am sorry you are only taking the negativity from my post, that is too bad, you should have kept reading!


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well, Moving him to his own bowl might not be too bad, two issues though, my bowl is shattered and now he is used to 80F Climate waters.

How about a Large Jar? Same basic principle...right?


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

BettaFire682 said:


> Have anymore questions or thoughts?


Yes. If you can't return them or provide adequate housing, they must find a new owner who can. 

I really suggest you stop covering your ears and take our suggestions into consideration. Fish are animals. They have instincts. Their current accommodation is not at all good for them. Why would you say Netti's post has "too much negativity"? Even if it's negative in your perspective, you still need to put weight into her opinion. Can you say she's pointing out an inaccurate fact or trying to give you a bad advice? Again: just because we're pointing out where you go wrong, doesn't mean you're being belittled. Let's take your personal interests aside and focus on the fish.

EDIT: yup large jar works too. Grab a heater or put it on a warm room to keep the temp constant.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Have you actually went to the pet store and ASKED if they'll take the fish? Or are you just assuming?


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Ok, this will hopefully work out we got 5, 2 gallon, sanitized pickle jars in the kitchen we use to refill our tanks and containers.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

SplashyBetta said:


> Have you actually went to the pet store and ASKED if they'll take the fish? Or are you just assuming?


Even my hated PetSmart will take fish at any time. They might not pay you for them or give you credit but they will take them.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

That's great for the betta but you still have the issue of the cories and loaches that need a larger tank.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm not giving my fish away for free, why on earth would i do that Splashy? 
Besides they all came from different places. One loach was from Petco, the snail walmart, one cory came from petco while the other was from another chain of petco and so on so forth. I love all my fish, and if that means puting my betta by himself that is what i will do. Thanks for you advice everyone and thanks Natti for you attempting to give good criticism.


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

Bettafire, I am so glad that you are taking our advice. Make sure you get a heater for your buddy and his new home. And plants.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I will but it might be too late. A mod just told me she could see fin rot in that pic. and those pics are at least 4 months old. I'm not ready to loose him.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Post a recent photo in this thread. Many times fin biting or nipping by other fish is diagnosed as fin rot.

Click on "Go Advanced" next to Quick Reply. Click on the Paper Clip to upload photos.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I can't.. I'm at school.. I'll be home at about 4:00. But I don't know if he will... :,(


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

BettaFire682 said:


> I'm not giving my fish away for free, why on earth would i do that Splashy?
> Besides they all came from different places. One loach was from Petco, the snail walmart, one cory came from petco while the other was from another chain of petco and so on so forth. I love all my fish, and if that means puting my betta by himself that is what i will do. Thanks for you advice everyone and thanks Natti for you attempting to give good criticism.


I don't know, I just assumed you cared somewhat about the lives of these innocent animals you have taken into your care...


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

But you aren't taking the welfare of the other fish into consideration. Moving the betta out into his own tank will stop the aggression, but it does nothing to address the poor stocking of your tank with the remaining fish. 

You are going to kill your fish through 'love' if you don't rehome them, or make some effort to improve their current standard of living.


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

Loaches need at least a 20 gal tank, many have said your tank is overstocked, if you move your Betta to a temporary jar, be sure to find a way to heat it and do daily water changes, I completely get that you can't afford a huge tank, ect. but right now you need ot do what's best for them because you love them, whether or not you get money for the fish you return is not the point, you need to give them back so they'll have another chance to find another good home, you can definitely keep your snails in the 5.5 with your Betta. But your boy needs that tank all to himself, he just doesn't live harmoniously with tank mates anymore. It can happen. It happened with Dangerous, by the time I tried shrimp, he tried to hunt them down, and unfortunately killed one, I didn't blame him, but I was shocked. He had changed a little as he got older. It happens, it's not their fault, it's instinct.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

OMG again my mom said i had to keep them together and that it takes up too much space. What i did was remove 7 out of the 10 decorations and all the fish seem happier. Maybe they just needed living space?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

They need correct for their species living space. You didn't add more space taking out decorations you took away their places to hide from each other. This is not about more "space" it's about what size population can stay healthy and happy in that small of a tank. 
Your Betta needs 5 gallons to himself, unless you want to do daily water changes, your loach needs at least that much and your schooling fish need 10. 
We are just looking out for your pet's well being. Your Betta is already ragged, it's only going to get worse if you don't separate him. Think about being locked in one room with your entire family, for months and months on end.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

BettaFire682 said:


> OMG again my mom said i had to keep them together and that it takes up too much space. What i did was remove 7 out of the 10 decorations and all the fish seem happier. Maybe they just needed living space?


Omg again if you can't provide them with what they need, you gotta return them! It has been reiterated to you many times what your fish need. The Betta need that 5.5 all to himself. If you really do love your pets then you must realize that they'd be so much happier with someone else who can house them in the appropriate tank. Can't or won't return them? Give them away. We have a marketplace thread.

I also read your other thread. It seems like Lil identified fin rot on the Betta. Fin rot is the direct result of poor water conditions. If this continues the rot will only get worse. And no, please stop acting like your fish is gonna die any minute now. Instead of obsessing over their death, what about obsessing over their lives? Fin rot is treatable. Start treating. First step is to remove all the other fish. The bio load is probably too much for the bacteria to cycle.


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## BettaBoy11 (Apr 21, 2015)

We've told the OP many times that we think his tank is overstocked, in multiple threadss: some of which have been closed. IMO I don't think it is going to help to keep telling him again and again.
I'm sorry your fish aren't getting along Bettafire.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well I would if I could guys but until I move out I have no choice... I really do listen to you guys but I can't follow through without the ability to. She saw fin rot on those pics that are way old, it could be too late.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Your mom won't let you return them to the stores?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm done with this.
Can't help the unhelpable.


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## Overprotective Fish Lover (Apr 11, 2015)

Hi,

I agree with everyone that your tank is overstocked - very - and the stress from this condition is most likely causing/amplifying your issues. I also understand that you can't contradict your mom.

I know it seems like a waste of money to give away your fish for free, but I think it's the best option for you. You obviously care about your fish - otherwise you wouldn't be asking for help. The truth is, they are not going to be happy or healthy in the environment you've given them. Sending them to a place that can give them proper care is the best thing you can do if you want them to thrive.

Ultimately though, your decision is your decision and I respect that.

To everyone else: I get that it's frustrating when we take time to help people and they don't accept our advice. But let's try to take some deep breaths and keep it respectful, at least.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

*What* is too late? I must say, for someone who claims to love their pets, you have a very interesting outlook. Someone could walk up to 99% of pet owners I know and say "I'm sorry dear, your pet has cancer" and still their first reaction would be "so how do we treat it?". All you're dealing with was fin rot and you throw your hands up already?


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm not that experienced... and he is my first betta.. and I never said I was giving up.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

The majority of us aren't experienced either. That's why we join this forum. Ask! And ye shall receive. I'm sorry I yelled at you. It's frustrating to hear how you continuously said that your fish is gonna die - over and over again. But hey, great to hear that you're not giving up. I promise, fin rot isn't hard to treat. Here's how I dealt with it:

- considering your housing conditions you need a hospital tank. Move your Betta to the aforementioned pickle jar. Keep it dark.
- add tannin to the hospital tank. Either look for Indian Almond Leaves, Rooibos tea (available at any supermarket) or oak leaves. Keep the tannin source inside the tank 100% of the time
- get a separate bowl, half gallon is enough, for an MB-AQ bath every other day. Methylene Blue is about $4.99 for the smallest bottle. If you can't find it in the local fish store, it's all over Google. AQ is just Aquarium salt. Even Petco sells it.
- the dose is 4 drops of MB + 1 tsp of AQ. Put the fish in the bath for 30 minutes and then net/scoop him back to the hospital tank. Don't let the bath water get into the hospital tank. 
- rinse and repeat every other day until you see regrowth. Don't forget to do regular water changes on the hospital tank

I have treated a fish with rot so severe he doesn't have a tail anymore. If I immediately say it's too late just because I'm inexperienced he'd be long gone by now. Today he has 50% of his tail back. I'm not an expert either. All I did was ASK.


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## BettaBoy11 (Apr 21, 2015)

If you don't want to give your fish away for free, maybe try selling them online locally. +1 OPL


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

If your mom will let you, bring the fish to a pet store. I get that it might feel like you wasted money if you give away purchased fish for free... But look at it this way: You've already spent the money. That's done. You can either give up the fish and they'll get a chance at a good life, or you can keep them and they'll suffer, likely eventually becoming ill from the stress and dying young. Now the choice to make is whether you want to do the kind thing or allow your pets to suffer. 

I can't tell you anything else at this point... You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


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## BettaBoy11 (Apr 21, 2015)

BettaBoy11 said:


> If you don't want to give your fish away for free, maybe try selling them online locally. +1 OPL


OFL not OPL.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> - add tannin to the hospital tank. Either look for Indian Almond Leaves, Rooibos tea (available at any supermarket) or oak leaves. Keep the tannin source inside the tank 100% of the time


Unless you know 100% that the Oak leaves are dry and pesticide free do not put them in your tank.

Same applies to anything else you may pick up in a forest or stream, You run a real risk of introducing god knows what into your tank.


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

^ +1
I've found that just clean, warm water, and AQ salt will help fin rot without IAL (that is if you don't have it on hand) But it does help to have it.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

My tank water is very very clean, and we have the medicine at home, mom will only let me use it if we know for sure that he has fin rot. Also mom won't even let me use a pickle jar now, idk why, she just does not understand fish keeping like we do. I really needed that tank that my sister destroyed..


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well aside from all this stress, how is everyone's morning going?


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Obviously not clean enough if the fish still developed fin rot either now or some time ago. You can't see toxin. The water may be crystal clear and still contain 4ppm ammonia. The myth that you only need to clean the tank when it looks dirty is an old wives tale. 

Fin rot can also be treated on the main tank. But, really, no matter what you do if you keep the tank like that the rot will never go away. 

And on that note, I'm done with this. Can lead the horse to the water but can't make it drink.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I'll get a full tank shot of it tonight, I'll try anyway, what I mean is I'll get the whole tank in the photo, you will see it's very clear.


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## Tuck2012 (Mar 18, 2015)

BettaFire682 said:


> I'll get a full tank shot of it tonight, I'll try anyway, what I mean is I'll get the whole tank in the photo, you will see it's very clear.


I`m afraid there is totally no point in taking a photo to show how clear the tank water is, clear water is meaningless. The white spirits I am using to clean my paint brushes is crystal clear but is not something I would consider is safe at all!! The only way you can know if the tank water is clean is by testing not by looking at it.


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## BettaMommaHeather (Jan 22, 2016)

There once was a large family, seven people in all. They loved all creatures, the big and the small. They had several gerbils,hamsters, rabbits,cats and some very large hunting dogs. They cherished their animals, but when separation loomed they did what was right. They rehomed all their pets the big and the small giving no thought of the price it had cost them at all. 
Its not about the cost of the animal or recouping the money put in its about doing what is best for the animal. Did it hurt us to find homes for all our animals, certainly it did. My boys cried their eyes out when we found homes for their hamsters and gerbils, but they also understood that when you dont have the space for them its better to them to be happy and healthy somewhere else than suffering in cramped conditions. Its not about you, its about them and what is right. You say your mom doesn't understand fish keeping like you do, and she is stopping you from, helping your fish. Honestly hun, have you sat down with her and saud hey, I as wrong I put to many fish in my tank and now they are suffering can you help me, help them. Explain to her why you need the pickle jar, and then let her know you need to find homes for your other fish or take them to them back to the pet store. As a mother to three teenage boys, I can tell you owning up to your mistakes and talking calmly goes a long way.
Everyone in this thread has given you wonderful and valuable information to learn from. You seem to be looking for a miracle answer that will allow you to continue with your tank in the current condition and everyone be happy and healthy. Well, their isn't a miracle option, you must rehome your other fish if you want your Betta to be healthy and survive. Fin rot is treatable its not the end of the world, do what was suggested and he will be fine. Don't and well I am sure you can see how it will end.

My two cents, and all I am going to say.


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

They have been fine now, he has not chased the loach in a couple days. How close will a betta let another fish be to him before attacking?


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

Until he changes his mind!


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## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

I don't think he could catch the loach anyway. The loach is too fast with his slender body, and my betta's fins are so big it slows him down. He always gives up at some point and lays down on the rocks. He getting more of a work out from it, lol.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Regardless of whether your betta can catch the loach, constant chasing will cause stress and stress leads to illness. It's a disaster waiting to happen.


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## Overprotective Fish Lover (Apr 11, 2015)

+1 SplashyBetta. Don't understimate stress in fish. It is actually not unheard of for fish and invertebrates to die from stress alone; however, it is more likely still that the stress will damage their immune systems and make them more susceptible to disease. Even if your fish don't chase each other for days or even weeks, the stress is still there, and it is still weakening them. The end result will be a breakout of disease and mass die-off.

I don't mean to be harsh when I say that; I completely get that it's frustrating when everyone tells you exactly what you don't want to hear. But please try to take into consideration what's best for your fish. We just want to help you do what's right. Good luck.


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## Julie7778 (Mar 20, 2015)

Hellos! I have read this entire thread and I think we need to just nicely get this on the table. These are the things you NEED to do if you want your Betta to live. 

1) give ALL the fish except the betta to petco or petsmart.
I'm not sure how much you spent on them but it's probably under $15. Is that $15 more important than their lives? They deserve a proper home. Bring them back to the store or they'll continue to suffer. You don't want them to die do you? 

2) then take the steps to heal your betta. We can all help you with this when we see he's in his own 5g tank where we can actually help him. 

3) your water may look clear, but there are some things you can't see! It's invisible. Ammonia for example, it's completely invisible! But it could really harm your betta. Which could be why his fins are so bad. 

I know you care for your fish, but in order to show this and help the fish you need to do what I told you above. I'm not trying to be rude, just help! Like everyone else. But you aren't listening to us, which is making us frustrated! So take the fish in a container and back to the store


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## Detectorist (Jan 8, 2016)

Of course Bettas can be trained. Silly people.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Detectorist said:


> Of course Bettas can be trained. Silly people.


No animal can be trained to go against it's basic nature. You can't train mice not to be afraid of cats and you can't train a solitary, territorial fish to play nice. It's just not possible. You might scare them out of being aggressive, is that what you're trying to say? 
Who wants their pets to be scared all the time?


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## Detectorist (Jan 8, 2016)

Witchipoo said:


> No animal can be trained to go against it's basic nature. You can't train mice not to be afraid of cats and you can't train a solitary, territorial fish to play nice. It's just not possible. You might scare them out of being aggressive, is that what you're trying to say?
> Who wants their pets to be scared all the time?


Bettas each have different personalities. I've trained a few to eat from my hand and do some simple tricks.


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## Detectorist (Jan 8, 2016)

Animals are trained every day to act contrary to their instincts. Not Bettas, though.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Detectorist said:


> Animals are trained every day to act contrary to their instincts. Not Bettas, though.


Oh? Which animals would those be? 
Keep in mind that you're trying to prove someone wrong that has been breeding, raising, training and grooming dogs cats and horses for more than 45 years.


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## Detectorist (Jan 8, 2016)

Witchipoo said:


> Oh? Which animals would those be?
> Keep in mind that you're trying to prove someone wrong that has been breeding, raising, training and grooming dogs cats and horses for more than 45 years.


The very act of training a dog means just that. Do you not know that?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Oh, so it's contrary to a dog's nature to train a retriever to chase something that moves and bring it back for.A food reward? Or a scent hound to put it's nose to the ground and follow a scent to it's end, or to train any dog how to heel, which is just pack behavior? RIIIGGGHHHTTT.


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## Detectorist (Jan 8, 2016)

How about training a dog to not chase other dogs or cats. How about training dogs to not bite your legs like Aussies tend to do.

That's what I'm talking about.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Closing thread as it getting contentious and beyond the point of helping. I would advise rereading BF and TFK rules. TFK's linked at bottom of BF rules.

BettaFish.com Rules


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