# Bloating



## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

I have posted here before when Fizz came down with mild Swim Bladder Disorder back in July. He was cured of it and has done fine until now. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=227522

Currently he is showing signs of bloating. Starting around the end of November/early December I noticed this starting to happen. I would feed him and sometimes he would bloat a bit so I fasted him for a day or two and it goes down partially. This is the worse I have seen it. I have seen him poop so I do not think it is constipation.

I am honestly puzzled on what to do.



> Housing
> What size is your tank? -1.5 Gallon
> What temperature is your tank? -Ranges between 78-80
> Does your tank have a filter? -Yes.
> ...



Sorry the pictures are so big.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

I will fast him again tonight and then do his usual water change tomorrow, as well as install the heater probably.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Morning Update: His bloating still hasn't gone down. I figure if it will at all it will be down a little tonight. We shall see.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Do you know what color his poop is?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Do you know what color his poop is?


It's its usual color, some kind of brown color.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Have you treated with Epsom Salt?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Have you treated with Epsom Salt?


I haven't done anything yet. That is why I posted. I am unsure on what to do.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I would start with some Epsom salt treatments. Add 1 tsp per g, pre-dissolved to his tank. I would do water changes every couple days and add ES. If you take out 50% of the water add .5 tsp per g pre-dissolved, if you take out all the water add 1 tsp per g pre-dissolved.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> I would start with some Epsom salt treatments. Add 1 tsp per g, pre-dissolved to his tank. I would do water changes every couple days and add ES. If you take out 50% of the water add .5 tsp per g pre-dissolved, if you take out all the water add 1 tsp per g pre-dissolved.


I'm going ahead an placing him in a QT bowl. It will be easier to do the water changes in. I can also see if he poops easier or not. I did this back when he had swim bladder (see link in first post.) But since we are getting cold snaps I think I should put his heater in as well. Would that be okay with the Epsom salt?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> I'm going ahead an placing him in a QT bowl. It will be easier to do the water changes in. I can also see if he poops easier or not. I did this back when he had swim bladder (see link in first post.) But since we are getting cold snaps I think I should put his heater in as well. Would that be okay with the Epsom salt?


Yes, just dose it for your QT tank size. Isn't your tank already 1.5 g? How big is the QT tank? Most QT tanks are between .5 g - 3g.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Yes, just dose it for your QT tank size. Isn't your tank already 1.5 g? How big is the QT tank? Most QT tanks are between .5 g - 3g.


My QT tank is a 1G unfiltered bowl. His normal tank is filtered an all that jazz. I already put him in without the heater. We don't seem to be having a cold snap as of yet. If I see it coming then I will put it in.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Make sure the tank does stay above 76. Being cold can slow down the metabolism, and add to the swelling he is experiencing. To be honest, I don't think it is bloating. Lets see if the ES helps him, if not we may have to look into possible antibiotics.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Make sure the tank does stay above 76. Being cold can slow down the metabolism, and add to the swelling he is experiencing. To be honest, I don't think it is bloating. Lets see if the ES helps him, if not we may have to look into possible antibiotics.


Alrighty.


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## TheOnlyCanvas (Feb 28, 2013)

I agree with NeptunesMom. Try the epsom, see if it helps, but definitely keep him warm too. It'll help him heal.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

TheOnlyCanvas said:


> I agree with NeptunesMom. Try the epsom, see if it helps, but definitely keep him warm too. It'll help him heal.


Well I placed him in the 1tsp last night an so far no improvements. Should I bump it when I change him tonight?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Was also doing some looking around, maybe I should order some API General Cure?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Besides the bloating, he's acting normal right? 

The max dosage for ES is 3 tsp per g. You could try a max dosage and see if there is any improvement.

If you don't already have it, I would order API General Cure. I would recommend stocking up on several drugs, because you never know when your fish will get sick. I have API Furan 2, API General Cure, API Tetracycline, Maracyn I, Maracyn II and Seachem's Kanaplex always on hand.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Besides the bloating, he's acting normal right?
> 
> The max dosage for ES is 3 tsp per g. You could try a max dosage and see if there is any improvement.
> 
> If you don't already have it, I would order API General Cure. I would recommend stocking up on several drugs, because you never know when your fish will get sick. I have API Furan 2, API General Cure, API Tetracycline, Maracyn I, Maracyn II and Seachem's Kanaplex always on hand.


Yeah pretty much so. He is a little bit lethargic but I think that is cause of the belly. He was fighting me when I was trying to change him tonight. Also put in the heater. Tried to feed him earlier but he didn't eat. Maybe try again later.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> Yeah pretty much so. He is a little bit lethargic but I think that is cause of the belly. He was fighting me when I was trying to change him tonight. Also put in the heater. Tried to feed him earlier but he didn't eat. Maybe try again later.


I would keep the fast going. You've been fasting him right?

Also, have you ever fed him live foods?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> I would keep the fast going. You've been fasting him right?


Yeah. I just wanted to try an feed him a pellet earlier also to see if I could actually see him poop to see if it was white or normal still. 

Thing with the General Cure is it is a tad expensive. I don't want to order it then it turn out I need something else instead you know?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> Yeah. I just wanted to try an feed him a pellet earlier also to see if I could actually see him poop to see if it was white or normal still.
> 
> Thing with the General Cure is it is a tad expensive. I don't want to order it then it turn out I need something else instead you know?


You really should start a stockpile of meds. General Cure is a fairly commonly used med. If you don't use it this time, you'll probably use it in the future. If you have a pet store nearby you could pick it up there instead of ordering it. PetSmart, PetCo, and anywhere with fish should have it. It's around $15.00.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> You really should start a stockpile of meds. General Cure is a fairly commonly used med. If you don't use it this time, you'll probably use it in the future. If you have a pet store nearby you could pick it up there instead of ordering it. PetSmart, PetCo, and anywhere with fish should have it. It's around $15.00.


Oh, I found it off Amazon for $10. I have Prime so I can have it shipped within a couple days. Thinking about grabbing General Cure as well as Kanaplex since both I have seen are widely used. Things like fungal cure and stuff I can grab at a later date if needed.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Going to up his dosage to 3tsp tonight and see if that does anything. If not, what do you think I should get to treat him with?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> Going to up his dosage to 3tsp tonight and see if that does anything. If not, what do you think I should get to treat him with?


Did you order General Cure and/or KanaPlex? If you can I would get those two. Maybe, if you can afford it (and you aren't allergic) get some API Triple Sulfa too. 

There aren't any buoyancy problem right? Just the swelling?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Did you order General Cure and/or KanaPlex? If you can I would get those two. Maybe, if you can afford it (and you aren't allergic) get some API Triple Sulfa too.
> 
> There aren't any buoyancy problem right? Just the swelling?


No it's just swelling. I haven't ordered it yet. I will probably tonight.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I would start with API General Cure.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> I would start with API General Cure.


okay ordered. Will be here by Friday.


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## nickyc82 (Dec 5, 2012)

omg your boy looks like mine with the bloat!. Im battling the same thing for a month now. this is my post and pics

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=324265

if you find out something before me please let me know! Ive tried EVERYTHING!!!!!


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

nickyc82 said:


> omg your boy looks like mine with the bloat!. Im battling the same thing for a month now. this is my post and pics
> 
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=324265
> 
> if you find out something before me please let me know! Ive tried EVERYTHING!!!!!


I shall let you know :3


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Update: Still swollen on both sides, left more than the right. General Cure will be delivered Friday. Today when I changed him he had a bubble nest at the top of his bowl, so he can't be feeling too bad. He was flaring at me last night also.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Alright, General Cure was delivered a day early :3 Yay fast shipping! 

Now, do I still use the epsom salt with the General Cure? Or how should I go about treating him?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

You can combine ES with General Cure. Do you have somewhere to mix up a batch of it?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> You can combine ES with General Cure. Do you have somewhere to mix up a batch of it?


I was thinking of doing it when I change his water today. Just add it to his QT bowl. Since it says to do 1 pack per 10 gallons, I have to measure out a very small portion of one pack. Why don't they make these smaller? XD


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Also it says to take out filters and stuff, which I do not have in my QT bowl, so should it be fine to just add it?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Yes. I don't have filters in my QT tanks. If they're sick I don't want them fighting a current. 

I usually just make the whole thing (just to make sure i dose it right). I went to the store and bought a storage tub for like $7. It's around 16g I think. I measure out 10g of water using a bucket I have that is 3.5g, and then I mix in the meds. It's nice because when I'm not using it I store my fish supplies in it (like AQ salt, ES, Stress coat, things that can't cross contaminate). I then do 100% water change with an acclimation. Others on here say I do it the hard way though, and it's easier to measure it out.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Yes. I don't have filters in my QT tanks. If they're sick I don't want them fighting a current.
> 
> I usually just make the whole thing (just to make sure i dose it right). I went to the store and bought a storage tub for like $7. It's around 16g I think. I measure out 10g of water using a bucket I have that is 3.5g, and then I mix in the meds. It's nice because when I'm not using it I store my fish supplies in it (like AQ salt, ES, Stress coat, things that can't cross contaminate). I then do 100% water change with an acclimation. Others on here say I do it the hard way though, and it's easier to measure it out.


Yeah I think I will just measure it out. I don't have the room to keep a 10g container of it, especially if the treatment last at two days I think the box says. How do I go about acclimating him?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

If I treat a large tank, I just put it into a water bottle that's about 1/2 full of tank water or fresh bottled water, shake it up, and then dump it in. It's mixing with the water that's already in there. The only time I ever acclimate is if I do a 100% water change with the medicated water. In your case, I'd just do the same, but with the smaller dose.

ETA: For clarification, I'm only talking about acclimation for medicated water. Not other times, like if I do 100% water change regularly I'll acclimate.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> If I treat a large tank, I just put it into a water bottle that's about 1/2 full of tank water or fresh bottled water, shake it up, and then dump it in. It's mixing with the water that's already in there. The only time I ever acclimate is if I do a 100% water change with the medicated water. In your case, I'd just do the same, but with the smaller dose.
> 
> ETA: For clarification, I'm only talking about acclimation for medicated water. Not other times, like if I do 100% water change regularly I'll acclimate.


Alright, I am out for a friends birthday so I will do all that when I get home tonight. Once I put it in I will only do the water change when I do a new treatment right? How long should I do the treatments?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Okay General Cure is in. That stuff doesn't dissolve all the way it seems. Left some white crystals floating around. But I guess that's the medicine working. Now to wait 48 hours.

Edit: Fizz is kind of floating around in the middle but staying still. I am guessing that is him adjusting to the medicated water?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Hmm.. It should dissolve all the way. Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been working. It should walk you through treatment length on the back of the box.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Hmm.. It should dissolve all the way. Sorry for the delay in answering, I've been working. It should walk you through treatment length on the back of the box.


Yeah the treatment did for the most part, just a few white specs fell to the bottom. Yeah I read the details on the box. Just wanted to make sure you didn't reccomend anything different.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> Yeah the treatment did for the most part, just a few white specs fell to the bottom. Yeah I read the details on the box. Just wanted to make sure you didn't reccomend anything different.


I pretty much always stick to the box directions on medications. Good luck! I'll be sending healing vibes your way .


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

So my dad is the biggest dolt on the planet. I told him while I was gone overnight not to feed Fizz because of his belly and all that. I come home and Fizz looks a little fatter and there are like four pellets that sank to the bottom. I am so mad. I want to just shove a beach ball in his stomach an see how he likes it.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Here is a picture of him. This is his bad side. His other side isn't as swollen but it is still swollen.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Is that reflection? Or is his head turning white?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Is that reflection? Or is his head turning white?


That is reflection.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Started his second dose of his first treatment today. Still no improvement (no thanks to my dad -.-) Decided to stop the Epsom for now, since it wasn't really helping in the first place.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Umineko said:


> Started his second dose of his first treatment today. Still no improvement (no thanks to my dad -.-) Decided to stop the Epsom for now, since it wasn't really helping in the first place.


You were starting to see improvements though prior to your dad feeding him? Correct? Or has there been no improvement?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> You were starting to see improvements though prior to your dad feeding him? Correct? Or has there been no improvement?


No not really. He seemed to be swimming around a bit more but he was still bloated as ever.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Yeah I don't think the General Cure is working at all. It is almost the end of the first treatment and his bloating hasn't changed :/ Will I have to do multiple treatments before any results happen?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

In all honestly I think his stomach is starting to look bigger...I am lost on what to do at this point since the General Cure hasn't helped...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Umineko, I'm sorry to hear your boy is sick. Judging from the pictures and your descriptions of him, I think there are two possibilities.

The first is a fatty tumor or fatty liver disease. It's basically a fatty deposit in the liver. There is no cure for this but I have seen bettas with huge tumors/growths live for months as long as they are eating. Since your guy isn't eating, the deposit may be affecting his stomach. On rare occasions, I've seen the growths reabsorb but not very often.

The second possibility is a blockage in his intestine. Not necessarily constipation but an actual blockage of foreign matter. In a large fish or mammal, it would probably be surgically removed along with part of the affected intestine but in a tiny betta, there's not much that can be done.

I would suggest doing one more treatment with General Cure and if it has had no effect, stop. Some things you might try with him are feeding him a high fiber food such as daphnia or brine shrimp in case it is a blockage.

I'm really sorry that I don't have any other answers.  Sometimes treating bettas can be very frustrating because they're so little and so many of their symptoms mimic different diseases, making diagnosis hard.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Alright, I'll give the General Cure another go. He is acting normal besides the swelling. I have tried feeding him and I think he did eat a couple pellets, but not much. So we shall see, thank you for your suggestions.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

I think it's getting bigger...it's scaring me. What should I do after the General Cure?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh no. That's not good and a definite sign that the problem is not parasitic. I'm now worried that he is developing dropsy symptoms from an internal bacterial infection affecting his kidneys. 

When you ordered the General Cure, did you order Kanaplex as well? If you did, now is the time to try the Kanaplex.

Otherwise, try and post a pic of him if you can. Depending on his behavior and wear the bloating is occuring, there may not be anything that can be done. Bloating that is all over the body with the scales raising is dropsy. Bloating that is localized on the stomach, between the two long dangly fins called ventrals is often something else, either liver disease or a fatty tumor.

Do keep trying to feed him and encourage him to eat.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Sakura8 said:


> Oh no. That's not good and a definite sign that the problem is not parasitic. I'm now worried that he is developing dropsy symptoms from an internal bacterial infection affecting his kidneys.
> 
> When you ordered the General Cure, did you order Kanaplex as well? If you did, now is the time to try the Kanaplex.
> 
> ...


He is acting completely normal besides the fatness. I don't think it is dropsy because his scales aren't raised at all. I did not order the Kanaplex but I can if you believe that is what I should try next. 

Here is his bad side:










Here is his other side:









As you can see the one side is much more enlarged than the other.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Unimeko. From what I can tell from the pics and his behavior, it does not look like he has an internal bacterial infection that is causing the bloating. Because it's pretty localized right between his ventrals, it looks like fatty liver disease or a fatty tumor deposit. Unfortunately, there is no treatment for this.  In rare cases, I've seen the tumor reabsorb but this doesn't happen often. 

Some things you can possibly do to help are to feed a high fiber diet such as daphnia and brine shrimp and to monitor the fat content of his foods. 

Otherwise, as long as he can eat and reach the surface to breathe, he can go comfortably for months in this state. 

I'm sorry but he does look to be in good health otherwise and in no distress.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Aww  well tomorrow I will set up his tank again and get him back in his home. Would the brine shrimp be frozen as well? I have seen regular brine shrimp next to the pellets. I know daphnia is frozen. What would you recommend? (Unfortunately my local pet store doesn't carry daphnia on hand I have to have them order it :/) and would I continue to feed him pellets while doing the daphnia/brine shrimp?

Also, anything else you can recommend besides changing his diet? Just to make him more comfortable?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The brine shrimp would be frozen as well, yes. You could try freeze-dried daphnia or brine shrimp but for some people, freeze-dried foods are controversial as to whether or not they cause bloat. You can just feed the brine shrimp though, if it's a hassle to order daphnia. Brine shrimp is a lot easier to feed, to be honest. Daphnia is so small and it gets everywhere.

You can alternate the frozen foods and the pellets.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Alright. Thank you so much for your help. I got him some new gravel today since the one I was using was a bit old. He seems happy to be back in his home. Though I feel bad because I think he isn't used to his belly so he kept getting his tail caught in his flower so I had to take the top part off XD I left the leaves though so he had something to hide under. 


















Sorry they are so dark.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Though I am hoping once I get the brine shrimp he will eat more. I have been trying to feed him his pellets and he is just not taking to them. Maybe it is because of the tank change today :/ What do you think?


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Got the shrimp. He goes to eat them but he keeps spitting them back out. Some of them are really big so that is understandable but even the little ones he is doing it. I don't know if he just doesn't want them or what. I don't want him to starve. I have been fasting him since he started this [so about a week or so.] So I know he is hungry, then why is he spitting it back out? I hope the tumor/liver isn't gonna cause him to stop eating :/


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

Alright after a while I got him to eat a couple of shrimp. Though I think most of them are too big for him. So I have to pick out small ones with a dropper and feed him that way.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear he's having trouble eating. Usually the tumor/liver doesn't affect their appetite. However, he won't starve just yet. Bettas can go for weeks without eating so he'll be okay in that regard.

Let me know if he gets any other symptoms or anything else that might indicate a new problem. Hang in there, Umineko, you're doing great with him.


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## Umineko (Jul 16, 2013)

I got him to eat a little more. In total he probably ate about 5 or 6. I don't think I should feed him much more. Don't want to overfeed him. Will probably try and see if I can get him to eat again in the morning.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad he ate. Yay for him!


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