# HELP Ecosystem Jars For School



## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

So in my environmental science class we will be setting up the "self sufficient" jars with live plants/ "critters." I assume this means a few snails and endless livebearers, but we will have more info. on monday. We did this in biology 2 years ago and none of the jars were successful. So all the fish died.  I hate this project, but since it's required can you guys help me on making this the most tolerable possible to keep the animals alive? It's going to be set up all semester :| I hope this doesn't come off as "do my project for me", I don't mean it that way, I just want to save the fish if possible.... Thanks in advance.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Lots of plants. Lots and lots and lots of plants is the best way to go. Stuff the tank! (not literally of course, but almost) It's better to have too many plants vs too many fish, because too many fish = too much ammonia. I'm sorry you have to do this, but it could be fun. My dad actually has a buisness that sells systems with the idea of the project you've gotta do ( http://www.earthsolutions.co/Aquaponics-Planter-Boxes_c_303.html ) and when the fish don't die and the plants do well, it's really very fun.


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## JaspersANGEL (Oct 12, 2009)

Oh wow! I never had to do stuff like that in school. Tho I went to a french catholique school so the way of teaching might be different, but when I took biologie once we had to disect the pig fetus..half the class was outside retching and being sick, it smelled so bad, our teacher was awesome she didn't make us do the dissection anymore.

Biologie is a good subject, but I don't understand y we have to disect animals to learn about things.

Sorry I can't help u, but I hope ur project will do good this time.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I'd love to do this with a 2.5 gallon haha, but yeah, lots of plants! 80% should be plants I think... ask OFL hahah she's the best.


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## dukie1346 (Mar 22, 2009)

I agree, plants would be very important. How big is this "jar"?


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

I would assume a pickle jar, so like 1 gallon sealed :0 I may ask if I could use the glass 2.5 gallon tank you can get at petsmart with the glass lid. I doubt it would be allowed though... Anyone know where to find a bigger "pickle or relish jar"?


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

Walmart, empty the pickels out, bleach it, sun dry it? (Keep the pickels in another container).


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Oh, I dunno about your target, but my target is selling these 2 gallon plastic containers of cheese puffs. They're clear , 7" length, 7" width, 11" height, and they hold water and are light weight. They're actually pretty nice (I have one that's going to be a fish tank...), and if you want, I could make a post with pictures showing how after it was empty I cleaned it and removed the sticker's sticky residue and stuff...


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## Williamg (Aug 17, 2010)

I hated having to do that project in my middle school. We had to put guppies in there and by the time we were done most of them had died and I had a tank at home full of guppies. :roll: But to second what people have said, put as many plants in the tank as your teacher will let you, get the biggest container your teacher will let you have, then try and sneak in a bigger one ;-). Also try and pick the smallest fish available. For tank ideas, critter keepers will work, and they have various sizes of acrylic boxes available at craft stores, so try looking there. I have found some gallon; gallon and a half sized ones. Also ask your teacher specific what the size of the container should be. You may be able to get away with an extremely tall container, as long as it does take up too much room horizontally. 
Hope any of this ramble was helpful, and be sure to post up what your teacher says,
Williamg


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I will definetly post monday after school about the specifics then plan from there. thanks


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Put fast growing plants in there. The kinds that grow fast need alot of nutrients to do so and because of that they suck up ammonia and nitrates at a high rate. Floating plants are really good at this.


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## Drift (Jul 26, 2010)

I've bought some awesome jars at our market. How about going their and looking for an awesome, large, cheap glass jar? I have a whole shelf filled with jars, including a 3 gallon jar.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Okay, thanks for the advice on plants.

Drift: What kind of market did you go to? And did they come with lids? I have a Michaels and Hobby Lobby, those are the only places I could imagine having something like that...


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## Drift (Jul 26, 2010)

I guess it would be considered a flea market? We just call them Markets around here. XD Yes some of them do have lids.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I bet hornwort might be good!


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Umm... I would petition that "project". It's careless and cruel to do that to living animals.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

JaspersANGEL said:


> Oh wow! I never had to do stuff like that in school. Tho I went to a french catholique school so the way of teaching might be different, but when I took biologie once we had to disect the pig fetus..half the class was outside retching and being sick, it smelled so bad, our teacher was awesome she didn't make us do the dissection anymore.
> 
> Biologie is a good subject, but I don't understand y we have to disect animals to learn about things.
> 
> Sorry I can't help u, but I hope ur project will do good this time.


 Catholic school is way different, I know...I go to one. We had to disect starfish and frogs btu when we got to genectics I rocked it because of my knowledge of bettas


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Or you can put the fish in a tank and then put them in a jar the day you take them to school (if you have to).


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## weluvbettas (May 29, 2010)

thats a good idea mr v im so glad we dont do cruel things like that in the uk


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

MrVampire181 said:


> Or you can put the fish in a tank and then put them in a jar the day you take them to school (if you have to).


That's a good idea, but I think the teacher will be supplying the fish since he has a 50+ gallon tank full of endless livebearers. Thanks for the ideas everyone, I'll post the specifics tomorrrow!


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## Welsh (Apr 13, 2010)

Maybe I missed it but what is the point of this? I don't think we ever did anything like that when I was at school, which was sometime ago lol so I'm a little confused haha


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

I think to make a "self sustained or self sufficient" environment so you don't have to feed the fish or clean the water.


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## betta99 (Aug 16, 2010)

ah. i had to do that once, in second grade. just get lots of plants. i'm not sure how the fish will live. what are they gonna eat? try to sneak them some food


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## prettylittlefishy (Aug 12, 2010)

I had to do this I just remembered.. even dug out the paper.

Found out I packed the jar FULLLLL of plants, added some cheap fish and for the most part the goldfish ate organisms on the plants. Not gonna lie I sneaked them some food if I remember correctly. It was a lot of fun but it was hard!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Yeah, it might work for a while with snails or shrimp but I dont see it working with fish  How long do you have too keep the fish in there? I actually had a friend a few years back who's mom had an Ecospehere. Dont know if he still has it but when I saw it he told me he had it for a few months. and there were little shrimp inside it. it was pretty neat.

http://www.eco-sphere.com/index.html
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2004/11/ecospheres.php

According to their website most have a lifespan of about 2 years but some have been known to last up to 7 years!


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

He said it has to last all semester, which means until January! AH! Okay definetly will do tons of plants, and add probably 2 snails I'm thinking (they are baby size). I really appreciate all the help, if you keep thinking of stuff I would love to hear it! Thanks for the links too, I'll be doing all the research I can!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Do you HAVE to add fish? No way that will last to January with fish. Fish are big poopers  Does your teacher have any success stories?


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

There's a glass 2gal jar with lid at Walmart for $12 I think. 
It's in the cookware section where the pitchers are. 
Good luck with your project.


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## prettylittlefishy (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm guessing he doesn't.. just one of those teachers who thinks of something, doesn't try it (or tries and fails) then expects kids to do it. -.-

OMG I want an ecosphere!


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I think if you get 2-3 snails, and they reproduce, the eggs will be perfect food. =)


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

The whole idea of a mini biosphere is ridiculous. It doesn't teach children anything about the world, and instead instills the idea that small animals are disposable objects that don't feel pain or need to be regarded with any degree of respect. I don't understand the value of this "experiment" at all. Studying existing environments would be much more beneficial. Trying to shoddily replicate them without understanding of how delicate and complex these systems are in nature is irresponsible and useless. The students don't know anything about the origin of Endler's livebearers, they don't know about their social and spatial needs, they aren't taught about the nitrogen cycle and how impossible it would be to maintain in an unfiltered, unaerated tiny container. Sure, plants will help, and depending on the animal you get, it may be able to feed on decaying plant bits and green water--but really, a pickle jar is no place for a fish, and it doesn't take a scientist to figure that out. 

There's a special place in hell for whatever "educator" dreamed this one up. If it were me, instead of doing the project, I would write up a detailed report on how terribly this exercise falls short and betrays the entire point of a biology class. That's me, though.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

+1,000 @Adastra.


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## prettylittlefishy (Aug 12, 2010)

Couldn't agree with you more. I felt so bad when I had to do it I carried fish flakes in my pocket and fed the fish.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

I'd write the school board on this one. or the SPCA.


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## prettylittlefishy (Aug 12, 2010)

Or to PETA... But I can't say that because they're against people having pet's all togethor.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

PETA angers me. lol


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## betta fish crazy (Jul 9, 2010)

In third grade I saw an ecosphere at a muesuem in New York. You could buy them but at that time we lived in MN and they could not ship it there.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I don't think we really have enough detail on the actual project to be saying someone should go to hell over it... No offense. If it is just a snail or two with a shrimp then my guess is this is no big deal.

It is about as bad as buying a shrimp platter from walmart, or disecting a frog that was mass produced and raised in captivity just for the cause of being able to disect it in classrooms across the nation.

My guess is the aim of this project is to teach students how to create a miniature ecosystem in a jar, even if it doesn't properly replicate a real thriving pond, and watch how it evolves and changes over the course of 2-3 months. I'm sure they will test it, monitor it, and learn from their mistakes.

As I said before, there's no way to pass judgement on this class without knowing the full rubric and requirements. They haven't even set a requirement for the glass jar size, which seems weird to me.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

+1 for Adastra, but also +1 for Phoxly. You both have good points. 

If you make sure to add plants that you know the fish could eat if needed, it's possible they will survive for some time. Ask your teacher what sort of fish he will be supplying you with, and research what they eat in the wild, maybe if they are herbivors, you can purchase the plants they need?


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

woah O.O Honestly in my opinion this sounds like a fun project! BUT- I'd get the two gallon chees puff container plastic jars from target. Not some silly little jar. And I'd ONLY have shrimp not live bearers!! Theres no way I'd sucumb a fish to that.. it would never live. SHRIMPIES ONLY! i <3 shrimps. Dey no poopy much, you can a lot, and there sooo much fun :3 but ur required to haave fish... THATS just cruel thats mean


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Phoxly said:


> My guess is the aim of this project is to teach students how to create a miniature ecosystem in a jar, even if it doesn't properly replicate a real thriving pond, and watch how it evolves and changes over the course of 2-3 months. I'm sure they will test it, monitor it, and learn from their mistakes.


You are correct. This completely sums up the point of this project. My teacher is a environment guru, tree hugger, nature guy, worked for forest service/fish wildlife parks. Anyway he is a really good guy and has good morals (he's taught all my siblings too). Anywho we learned just a tad more today. He supplies the "jars" which are about 1 gallon pickle jars he reuses every year. However, my partner and I are taking it "a step up" and are going to use I don't remember the proper name, but it has 3 seperate hexagon 1 gallon containers that are connected so as organisms can move between sections. One will be aquatic (the jar we were speaking of), one will be terestrial, and the other a "compost" or "landfill" section. We literally had 10 mins to start this so once again don't have full details, sorry. So two groups will be using seperate "3 section ecosystems" while the rest of the class will just be using the gallon jars. Today we put in gravel substrate that he supplied, seemed to have some soil in it. And we filled it with water, took pH, and temperature. We will be monitoring it, testing certain things, etc. throughout the experiment. We will have the option to add plants, fish, snails, shrimp I'm not 100% sure on. Later on we will be visiting ponds/rivers that we will be allowed to bring plants or other organisms from the river to add to our ecosystem as the project continues. This is about all the info. I have at this point. Please continue giving ideas, facts, or anything else. I really appreciate it!  Thanks so much!


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

If putting fish in is an option, I'd say don't bother with the fish. The snails and or shrimp could easily survive and hopefully make enough waste for the plants


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## ReyesBetta (Aug 31, 2010)

If you put in 2 snails there will DEFINATELY be enough waste. Those things are NASTY. I still don't have one but I want one.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Well the snails would be teeny not the large mystery snails. So it wouldn't be too much waste. I am thinking just some shrimp and snails though.... anyone have other advice?


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