# Leaving Father With Fry?



## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've heard really good stuff about this method. What do you think the best method is for the set up? Stuffing the tub with live plants seems awesome so I won't have to feed fry for the first week  Jk I'd still add BBS. So post your set up if you've tried this!


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

Depends on the male betta I suppose,
The main line I use seem to actually do better left alone with Dad, and Dad seems happy over it.
I move him around the one month or so mark to his own tank.

I found siphoning was just to much work worrying & fretting over sucking up fry I couldn't see,
So My baby betta tanks are lucky if they get 1 water change in a months time, At that point I can see the little guys no problems, So I start water changes, but even then, not frequent or too often, I usually come away from 30 to 60 very healthy young at each spawn... 

I found with the first generation spawns you lost a few more then normal, (weaker fry etc, )
The way I see it, it weans of the less desirable and strengthens the breed overall. 
Then using the next generation of young under the same conditions produced far bigger and stronger batches of fry.



I stress my young fry of all breeds I have here, purposely weaning out the weaker fish that show any signs of stress., etc,
I credit a big part of my lack of health problems in my fish to this fact.

Breed weak fish you get more weak fish and more problems.
They go hand in hand.


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## effy (Sep 21, 2010)

would you recommend this to a first time breeder? It seems very similar to a normal breeding set up in every way, except the dad is around longer? I have just bred my first spawn, and I wanted to leave the dad in as long as possible to avoid too weak fry surviving, and to reduce agression in the fry, but was advised to take him out once the fry are free swimming.


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## Chicklet (Feb 9, 2009)

It really depends on what each person is comfortable with doing.
Would I Recommend it to first timer, Probably not,

I remember when I first started, I wanted to save every fry born and every adult fish, 
I Couldn't put one down and when I did I cried.

But time goes on, We learn, we experience troubles,
All in which leads each one of us to the path we decide works best for us and we are comfortable with.

I reached the point where I was almost wipe out of fish several times. But Refused to give up, researched heavily, experimented, Bough every book I could find on fish, health, diseases etc, 
Then I decided to start culling heavier and heavier, until I am where I am now,

I can remember culling ALOT of young, But to this day I'm glad I did what I did, I believe it all adds to the betterment of the breed... Stronger, hardier and more resistant to diseases and troubles.

I've had alot of folks argue with me over it to the point I stopped mentioning it, tried saying what people wanted to hear, But that didn't/doesn't settle with me., 
Some people just don't like to hear the culling parts etc, Which is understandable....

and I really don't like typing, I use to be good at it, But I guess I just lack the desire behind it anymore, besides the facts that words seem to allude me these days


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## effy (Sep 21, 2010)

thanks for the wise and true words


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I tried it but once I started having a hard time counting fry I took him out. He never looked bloated but I think he must have been snacking a little. I don't really mind though because I'm not looking for huge spawns right now. To be completely honest if I wind up with 5 adults from each spawn I'll be happy. That enables me to get them moved out faster and continue to have more spawns without taking up too much space.

I've read that leaving the father makes the males better fathers when they grow up. I'm not sure if that's true or not because there have also been excellent fathers that were raised without the male present.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have found the same thing as Chicklet with my Bettas-I kinda do the "let the strongest survive"-fry numbers are not as important to me as the over-all health. I want strong healthy adults and this I have found start at the eggs stage-the female is often forgotten and she plays a big role in this game in my experience. Males will get blamed for failed spawns when they are just doing what instinct directs them to do-sometimes the hobbyist fails to provide the right conditions for success regardless of at what stage the male is removed.

I rarely have eggs that fall from the nest or wiggles that hit the bottom and I use the full to the top with water method in my 10g NPT spawning tanks.

I also have found that water temp plays a role in my end results-too low and they are slow to develop and weaker, too high and they develop too fast and are weaker.....I get my best end result with a steady water temp of 80F during the first 24h.

Water quality is a big factor when it comes to eggs and fungus problems that can cause the male to eat them, however, I usually leave the male in the tank because I have found that it makes better future breeders that have good parental skills and easier to breed/spawn. 
The male also eats any weak fry and that is what I want, they mouth and clean the eggs/fry and it is fun to watch this interaction and what makes this species so interesting in my opinion.

Now, if I have a spawn that is really important and I don't want to risk them and willing to deal with weaker/smaller fry-I will remove the male once the spawning is completed and artificial hatch and cull hard

I have found that every male is different and even good or known good fathers can eat eggs/fry if condition change or they feel threatened in some way-sometimes its bad eggs or fry and not a bad father at all-he was just doing what comes natural-instinct tell him to destroy the weak or consume healthy eggs/fry if they are threatened so he can have the protein and strength to spawn again-his goal in life is to procreate and pass his genes to the next generation-this drive is strong in good breeders

I have left the male with his fry up to the sub-adult stage and I have also left both male and female together for multi spawns, I have artificially hatched, removed males once fry are free swimming....it all depends on what my goal is with that spawn, how the male is acting or if he is known to me etc.......

So many factors at play on success of a spawn and leaving or removing the male- in my experience.....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It all depends on the male and we have to identify his character. I agree with Chicklet and OFL and would leave a good male with the fry as long as possible, usually around one month. Then again it all depends on my goals.

Basically what ever setup (npt or bare) can work. But I prefer npt, not heavily stuffed, just evenly spread through out the tub with aged water between 1 - 4 weeks. This will help feed the fry during the first week, provide shelter and make fry more secure, and reduce the need for pwc. It also makes the male feel more secure when we check on/feed both him and the fry.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Well my blue dragon geno is a great father so I think I'll try it with him next month. I'll use a 66 quart tub (I use these as growouts) with tons of live plants. Let's see how it goes. I don't think I could cull so if the male does it for me, like they all do...they do eat eggs and fry but not all of them (unless he's a bad father or feels threatened) I'll be ok with it.


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