# Need help trying to Euthanize with clove oil and it's not working.



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I have a fish that has dropsy and appeared to be dying. I have followed the direction on TFK 

http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=17234


She is clearly uncomfortable she started to bleed after adding the oil. She is not going to sleep.


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

Freeze I think that's how they used to do it? Try googling


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Clarice is gone. She is larger so maybe that is why it took so long. While there are worse things to me the clove is not comfortable I am pretty sure it burns.


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## redthebetta (Aug 11, 2013)

NO! Do not freeze it! They will still feel and the ice will shred them alive. They will eventually die only from suffocation.


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## redthebetta (Aug 11, 2013)

Oh, you posted before me. I'm so sorry :-( She sounded like a great fish!


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

Oh I hope you didn't freeze someone posted about that they cull by freezing that's why I said try googling


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Ice water works very quickly. These are tropical fish and succumb very quickly if you cannot use clove oil. Not freezing the fish but dropping them into ice water.


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## redthebetta (Aug 11, 2013)

It's still not humane, I believe IBC published a statement against any freezing/cold techniques.


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

So after this I googled it and decapitating cane up! I could never decapitate my fish! If it was already dead I still couldn't decapitate it! It said that was the quickest and most painless way! *feints*


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## redthebetta (Aug 11, 2013)

It really is the best way to kill a fish, they don't feel a thing. It is pretty brutal though :-(


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## Siobhan (Nov 11, 2013)

I don't think I could poison or freeze one, either. I can't imagine any of those ways that would not cause suffering of some sort, even if it were brief.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry to hear that you lost your fish JadaBlu. I personally didn't like using clove oil because I had one or two fish react badly and it was very upsetting to watch. 

If you decapitate your fish you have to pith the brain. 

Euthanasia is not a pleasant subject and always stirs up strong emotions. 

However, a natural death is rarely peaceful or without suffering. The most common methods of euthanasia may seem brutal, but they are fast and in my opinion better than letting the fish linger for days before passing.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Research the CO2 method. It pretty clean 
R


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I have lost a fish to dropsy before he was ready to go by the time I used clove oil although the initial attempt was to try drain fluid. She probably was slightly more alert but her breathing was really slow and she was just draped over a plant not having anymore energy to give other than to try to breathe. Having been through this already I know she could have lingered even longer suffering. The last fish bolter briefly and went to sleep. Clarice who had no energy as described bolted several and swam at least few times. She started to bleed which I think was partly because the dropsy caused some of her scales to fall off allowed the clove oil to penetrate her skin. Yes it was very upsetting to watch. I felt upset ashamed to have put her through that when I really wanted to end her suffering. It felt like a betrayal already to do it and then that. I read in my Veterinary fish book after the fact that CO2 method is a method of last resort. So I dont' know. I do know I don't feel able to pith a fish. I wonder if overdosing Finquel is better. Anyone know if Finquel is clove oil too?
I've enjoyed keeping fish in the past but I mostly kept fish that didn't notice the people in the room except a goldfish I had. Bettas are different. You do get attached to them and it's so frustrating when you cannot fix what is wrong. It would be nice if they must go it could be as peaceful as it can be for our cats or dogs.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Finquel is MS222(Tricaine Methanesulfonate) 
R


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Death isn't peaceful, you have to understand that. We just have to do our best to make it as peaceful and painless as possible. 

If you're going to decapitate, you _have_ to pith the brain, which is hard to do with a betta. If you don't destroy the brain it will continue to feel pain until it actually dies, which can take minutes. Other methods of destroying the brain humanely are by hammer and by garbage disposal. These methods might seem a bit brutal because you are inflicting trauma, and I prefer chemical methods.

I like clove oil the best. I've put a lot of fish down using it, and if you add the right dose there is very little struggle or stress... They just fall over after swimming around a bit and gill movement ceases within seconds. If you add a dose that is too low the fish will show a lot of stress and will swim around frantically, and may or may not collapse.

Co2 and finquel are both good methods, but I've never used them.

Freezing is inhumane, period. It shuts the fish down slowly and causes pain when ice crystals develop in the body. 

The ice shock method is humane and virtually instant, but I have seen fish recover from it and have to be killed via blunt force trauma after taking them out of a fridge to do a necropsy...


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

rickey said:


> Finquel is MS222(Tricaine Methanesulfonate)
> R


That sounds like an ammonia detoxifier.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> That sounds like an ammonia detoxifier.


Really similar but instead as OH ion tack on to it, there is a methylium cation(CH3) funny how that works
R


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

redthebetta said:


> It's still not humane, I believe IBC published a statement against any freezing/cold techniques.


It's considered humane by the veterinary association, and is one of their approved methods. I don't think there is a higher authority on the matter - certainly not the IBC.


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

something similar to decapitation, quickly put the fish in a paper bag and strike with a mallet. this is how my grandmother used to do it.i could not do it though. i use the clove oil and vodka method. benzocaine hydrochloride is another option ,however you need a prescription for it.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Anesthetics in Aquaculture 

I know we have been over all this before ....... matbe this helps
R


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IME/O-freezing is the most humane way to euthanize when done properly....

Fish brains are not wired to feel pain or perceive pain like we do-They function on a fight or flight-survival based instinct response to painful stimuli-They don't perceive pain as if to say "Ouch that hurts" their brain lack wiring for that for a reason.

IMO-while they may not be wired to feel or perceive pain like us-I still want to euthanize as humane and fast as possible.

By starting off with a container of ice cold water and dropping them in it-they go into immediate shock-paralyzed...then dead within seconds.

My personal experience with the clove oil-the fish struggled, fought, thrashed about and took several minutes to die...I want seconds before death not minutes....when I euthanize.....


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## alyssaanne (Aug 10, 2013)

Just a question as all my bettas are alive and trashing. Do you ever have to put to sleep a betta that wasn't a rescue or had some sort of accident? Like one of your guys just started dying. Or if that's the case do you let death run its course? I'm curious because I'm kinda comparing to my dogs...I've had dogs all my life and there wasn't one that didn't have to get put down. While most lived to a very old age they were painful. They never just "went peacefully". One had cancer(assuming) in the stomach at about 14. He threw up everywhere and couldn't keep food down. Even on His pain meds he was miserable. One day I found him lying in our woods and he pleaded with me to let it end. That was the worst one but ever since him we have never let a dog get to that. So I wonder is it the same for bettas. Do you just know one day that a painful end is coming? Or if you have a healthy one do they usually just "go"?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I've had dogs my whole life as well - we've had to put them all down. I would rather euthanize a month early than a day late.

I don't wait for fish to die on their own when I know/think that's where it's going. Sometimes fish just up and die - you don't always have an opportunity to euthanize.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Sorry for your loss. I can't contribute to the discussion because I don't euthanize, but good luck finding something that meets your future needs.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I only euthanize when I know treatment will be unsuccessful and they are in pain. With fish, old age, at least for me, usually means losing their color, slowing down, and dying a couple of day later... Totally peaceful and in no way would euthanasia make it more peaceful or be more humane.

Clove oil has always worked well for me- always quick and no thrashing- like I said before I think the key is adding a full lethal dose right off the bat. By the way adding alcohol to make sure they are dead or finish them off presumably burns their gills if they aren't already dead.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Dropsy caught late is like to result in a long lingering death with no cure I did try meds and watched for improvement but she was declining. Even fish possibly feel different that we do it' distressing to be gasping for air for days. So I'd agree with Jaysee that if it's clear there's no hope then not letting the fish suffer would be better. It's strange to be in this position as with dogs and cats your vet takes care of this. I don't hope to have a future need for this. However, if i do run into another no hope situation I want to do make it easy on the fish.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

I have to stand 100% with Jada on this: 

Guide line #8 of the AVMA statement on euthanasia 
"Human psychological responses to euthanasia should be taken into consideration when selecting the method of euthanasia"

I have a method i use that is AVMA approved, some people are not going to agree with it but it is my method. 

R


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I always let mine die on their own.


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## Joelouisvachon (Jul 13, 2012)

Same here. I just wouldn't be able to kill them. It's a belief thing really, I don't think we have the right to decide when a life begins or ends.


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

I use, rather than cold water, I use near boiling water, as that is much faster to come by in my house, I don't actually use ice cubes or anything, because my teeth are really cold sensative and I have to drink everything at room temp... ANYWAY! 

Scalding/boiling water works just as fast, if not faster than the freezing water. Warning though, the fish will COOK... It's unnerving for the squeamish, but they are already dead by the time that happens, so don't worry.


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