# Shiny coloration under gills



## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm just a worrier but today I noticed something on Crusoe I do not like and noticed he has had a change in behavior. Normally he is always swimming around and immediately comes out of his hiding spot when I approach the tank. His motions are usually fluid and he will chase anything that gets near the tank.

Since I put in his new filter and heater, however, he has changed his behavior in that he no longer comes out of his hiding spot when I approach the tank, his movements seem a bit jerky, he won't pay attention to moving objects outside his tank, and I spot this shiny coloration under his gills that I did not see before and do not like as a result.

Here are some pictures of the shiny bit. In some photos, I use an LED flashlight to highlight them. Note that his body scales normally glow when light shines on them, usually a whitish-purple.























































Is this just something I have not noticed before? His water conditions are normal. I am doing a fish-in cycle and just vacuumed his water. He seems to be moving around more since I did, so I wonder if it was just something in the water that caused him to change his behavior.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It could be ammonia burns which is a result of fish-in cycles, where the ammonia usually spikes (normal). It tends to happen a lot for fish-in or, when a betta heals from ammonia burns which can happen prior to buying.

As for the lethargy and odd actions, what is the temperature right now, truthfully?


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

He is at 78 degrees right now. Yesterday, though, we had a massive heat spike and it went up to 90 degrees. I do not like the temperature fluctuations but can do little about it.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm looking at him now and am greatly concerned. One thing I noticed when I got him was that his pelvicl fins were stiff, though not entirely clamped. His pelvic fins now appear to be clamped and he is is sitting nest to his thermometer completely still except for his pectoral fins, which are moving rapidly. 

He is looking generally clamped all over. He still eats a lot, swims around (but jerkily sometimes), and flares. I can't help but wonder if there was something on the filter. I rinsed it off and the heater too. 

I did a 95% water change two days ago and a 25% change because I just bought a gravel vacuum and decided to clean up his poop and had to replace the water.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Just tested for water conditions:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: Waiting for color to develop but it appears as though it will also be 0ppm. Its too soon for the cycle to be established anyway, so this isn't strange.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

if your water is fine and the only thing you can find is that little greying spot, is it possible he's just starting to show age? I've heard of some boys greying, my Patrick has definitely gotten grey around the beard and laaazy as of recently. I know he's all healthy because I've dealt with him when he wasn't, so I just assumed my boy was finally getting old.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

He's still pretty young. Also, his behavior is indicating something is wrong. I don't think it is a coincidence and I am very worried for him.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

ok well if he's young then it's something else and not old age. haha sorry to think he was an old guy. As for what it might be, out side of some form of ammonia burn or fungus/paracite I'm baffled. I'll send OFL over here to check it out though. She's like the betta master on here lol (no offense to anyone who thinks themselves this tittle as well)


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

OFL has helped me greatly in the past and I always appreciate her help. My fear is that it will turn out to be velvet. I just hope its my pessimism that makes me think these things and that he has a minor problem in reality.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

velvet is more of a golden dust. You really notice it. You can literally see hat looks like dust on the fish. I'm not really seeing the dust on these pictures so I don't think its velvet


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I've heard that sometimes velvet doesn't show up and you need to use a flashlight to see the specks, which I have done in the photos. I have not seen it first hand, however, and like to be sure.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

Hmm I sent a PM to OFL so she should be over when she gets on.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I know the temperature fluctuations aren't doing him any good (and the darting/stress from temperature fluctuations could end up with parasites, which is a possibility) but like you said there isn't much you can do about it.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

But how do I best deal with his problem now? Today he is completely lethargic. He is floating at the top of his tank not moving at all, breathing lightly. He'll react when I put my finger near him, he'll flare for a little bit at his reflection, and he will eat. However, his actions are limited and he is really not looking well at all.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

hmmm maybe its internal. Try an epsom salt treatment, along with another batch of fresh water. If it is internal parasites it should help. If you do start with 1 tbs per gallon. If no signs of improvement within 2-3 days bump it up to 2 tbs per gallon.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Where do you have him right now? have him somewhere away from windows, drafts, etc which can help with fluctuations... Remember, the higher up the warmer it is. The lower it is, the colder it is. Placing syran wrap (with gaps or holes) on top during the night may help with high fluctuations.

I haven't seen a youngin's health decrease like this for quite a while... last time I did I had no idea what I was doing. We would definitely need OFL in on this and she would know a heck of a lot more!

edit: I agree.....btw how has his poo looked? Very fine and thin?


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

We haven't had a temperature spike since that one day. I cannot place the tank anywhere else, but it is mostly near the wall with a little bit of window near him. He has an elite brand heater and his water has now remained constant at 78 degrees.










I have the window closed today because its a little chilly with the breeze. I tested his water right before going to bed and he has 0ppm of everything. I vacuumed his tank and his poop was all normal looking; I saw no white or stringy poop at all.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> I haven't seen a youngin's health decrease like this for quite a while...


There is another thread titled something like "help bettas health rapidly decreasing"

I'm trying to help them out too. Her poor fish sounds like it got a slew of problems within four days.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

hmmm I have some of my boys in similar placements, but they have a heater. If you can, bump the heater up to 80 or 82 degrees. It'll help a little.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm considering it but I am worried about changing the temperature anymore.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry you are having problems.....

My first thought when I read the first post.....new environment....filter/water movement and space is all new to him.....this stress along with the temps may be causing some problems.....generally a healthy Betta can tolerate these temp swing...but a stressed one is a different story....

As far as the coloration-look like normal pigment....


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

just do it one or two degrees at a time. If you go slow enough they do quite well. The warmer water will help him.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Sorry you are having problems.....
> 
> My first thought when I read the first post.....new environment....filter/water movement and space is all new to him.....this stress along with the temps may be causing some problems.....generally a healthy Betta can tolerate these temp swing...but a stressed one is a different story....
> 
> As far as the coloration-look like normal pigment....


He has been perfectly fine in his tank since I had him. He immediately made a bubble nest by his first night and was always very active. The filter has barely any flow, just the minimum. He was also not stressed until the filter came in, which he flared at when it came into the tank. He seems to be fine with its presence now but his heath is worrying.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

So you changed filters or what do you mean by "_He was also not stressed until the filter came in, which he flared at when it came into the tank_" how long has the filter been in the tank and how long has he been in the tank....how long have you had him....


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

lvandert said:


> hmmm maybe its internal. Try an epsom salt treatment, along with another batch of fresh water. If it is internal parasites it should help. If you do start with 1 tbs per gallon. If no signs of improvement within 2-3 days bump it up to 2 tbs per gallon.


I got tbs and tsp mixed up again...grrr I meant teaspoon not table spoon. I hate dyslexia!!


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I have had him for about two weeks. I was waiting for his filter to come in the mail and it came in a few days ago. I rinsed it off and placed it into the tank.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

lvandert said:


> I got tbs and tsp mixed up again...grrr I meant teaspoon not table spoon. I hate dyslexia!!


I will not play with Epsom salt until I know for sure what it is. I hear it can be dangerous.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

And he was acting fine until you added the filter....correct....


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Correct.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I also added the heater the same day. I also cleaned it before I put it in.

The filter is a sponge filter.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Usually sponge filters are tolerated without issue....but.....he had a change in behavior when you added the filter and heater.....what I would do to rule these thing out at least....

Move him to a small Qt and make some 25% water changes for a few days and see if he perks up....

Either of those products could have been contaminated some how and plus he is new (2weeks) and being moved to a large space-then adding water movement-then the temp spike....all combined most likely has stressed him out and compromised his immune response....some can tolerate these changes easier/better than others.

I would hold off on any medications/treatments...get his stress level down, start ruling out things in his environment and the environment itself-then start improving his nutrition in a small, dim lit quiet location and slowly reintroduce him back to his tank.....


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Alright, thank you. I will have to buy a QT because I do not have a smaller spare tank here at the moment. How small do you recommend? Should I have the heater in the QT or should I leave it out in case it was contaminated? Also, he has been having a hard time eating his food. I think smaller pellets may be good. He is eating betta bites right now. Do you have a suggestion for a nutritious but smaller pellet?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You can use anything, however, I would use something that can be floated in the heated tank since you don't want that heater in the tank with him-unless the room is warm enough to maintain temp of at least 76F you could use 1gal container for now....

I don't feed Betta specific processed foods.. and so I can't recommend anything.....I feed mainly homemade and live foods until I wean the juvies with flakes and micro pellets....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I use TetraMin tropical granules "the rich mix", alongside frozen, live, and freeze dried foods - with one day of fasting a week.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Alright, thank you! I will see if I have any containers that are 1 gallon, since I hear substitutes for tanks are sometimes used. If not, I'll go fetch a Kritter Keeper. I'll keep everyone updated.


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