# new betta twitches from time to time?



## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

hello! my new betta named andy lives in a 2.5 gal tank.
temp is 80 degrees. between 78 to 80.
no filter.
no air stone.
it is heated, yes.
he lives by himself.

food?
he eats omega one betta pellets, on occasion frozen blood worm and frozen brine shrimp.
fed him two pellets twice a day, but just cut it down to three pellets total a day.... frozen blood worm and frozen brine shrimp once each so far.
maintenance?
did one 50% yesterday, noticed he was inactive so went ahead and didalso 100% change today. plan to do 100% change twice/wk.
prime water conditioner is used.

water parameters?
water not teste yet. going to see if i could swing by maybe a petco tomorrow
to have a water sample tested.

symptoms and treatment?
from what i can tell, he looks pretty much the same .
his behavior change? maybe 3 days ago while looking at him, he floated near the top of the water, looked at me and his head twiched! idk if its a twich like movement of his head. super fast from side to side. then, today i noticed when
he swimmed he would twitch maybe. like he'd swim and twitch foward real fast. one time, his body went sidways before "twitching" to a normal position if this makes sense. he "never" darts against any objects, only twitches randomly and on occasion.
he floats at the top of the water sometimes and then other times he chases his own reflection or swims around. earlier today he'd hide in between his live plants. was fasting him today. since he was inactive i fed him and he is moving more.
i started noticing his symptoms 3 days ago.
i treated him with a 100% water change.
i got him from petsmart last monday, and he seemed healthy with a good personality. 

i believe i pretty much explained it above. any input is welcome please. thanks!!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

andy when he was hiding in his plant or floating.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

..


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

....


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## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

I don't have an answer for you sorry, but I'm posting so it will go back to the top.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

thank you.


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

I am by no means an expert on this, so wait for others to weigh in, but it sounds like fairly normal behaviour to me. If I'm visualizing correctly what you are describing, my betta, Fluffy, does this, too, and it looks to me like interaction not spasm -- kind of how a puppy will do a playful lunge or sideways motion.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

i hope you are right.  if it's true it would make sense because everything else about him seems normal. it's good to hear your fish "may" be doing the same thing. 
looking forward to seeing what other people think as well.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

okay, i'm almost 100% convinced that his behavior is not normal. he definately twitches. i looked up "twitching betta" on youtube and found another fish who seems to do just what mine does. i'll post up the address of the video to show. 
the last week or so his twitching behavior seems more frequent and slightly more noticeable or apparent.
the color around his head became a slightly darker shade. hmm? and the little, clear fins on his side (what are they called, ha?) has a red color on his body near them. it almost looks like a cut on both sides at the base of those fins. i'm unsure if they also indicate something is not right? 
i don't have a clue what could be cause of his twitching. help, lol?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

on youtube the title of this video is called 
"eclipse twitching".
will copy and paste the address tomorrow. 
this is not mine, it's somebody else's fish. although my little guy started twitching like this fish in the video. although, my andy's twitching seems bigger.
now, when he's not hiding in his cave except to go to the surface to breathe air (poor thing...) he periodically twitches when he swims. it's very obvious. and he swims faster than he did before in his little tank.


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## candyman995 (Aug 24, 2012)

My betta did this from time to time and got more frequent as well. Mostly he now just floats around doing nothing near the surface then darts off to hide again. I thought i was normal.

He stopped after i did a water change on his tank and am upgrading him to a 10g tank this week as well.

If it isnt normal im now concerned cause it looks bizzare when he does the twitch. Didn't notice any colour change for mine but will look closer when im home.

Has yours had any change thats more noticable dbrooke1?


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## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

I watched the video. It kind of reminds me of when a person is falling asleep and their body jerks and twitches. My husband does this when he's falling asleep at night (annoys the crap out of me). There is a name for it in people, but I can't remember what it's called. I wonder if this is what's going on, maybe your fish is falling asleep and starts twitching and then wakes back up. No clue really, just a theory.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

candyman995 said:


> My betta did this from time to time and got more frequent as well. Mostly he now just floats around doing nothing near the surface then darts off to hide again. I thought i was normal.
> 
> He stopped after i did a water change on his tank and am upgrading him to a 10g tank this week as well.
> 
> ...


candyman995,
i'm not sure if its normal or not. =) yes, the twitching looks abnormal to me too. the only other appearance change my fish had is a slightly faded color. he doesn't look as beautiful in terms of his color. thats it. :/
it's interesting your fish stopped twitching after a water change. has it stopped completely since then? after a water change, mine still did it. hmm...
anyway, i'm sure your little friend will enjoy their ten gallon tank!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

sainthogan said:


> I watched the video. It kind of reminds me of when a person is falling asleep and their body jerks and twitches. My husband does this when he's falling asleep at night (annoys the crap out of me). There is a name for it in people, but I can't remember what it's called. I wonder if this is what's going on, maybe your fish is falling asleep and starts twitching and then wakes back up. No clue really, just a theory.


sainthogan, he twitches even when he's full on swimming around only when i come near his tank or occasionally when he sees his reflection in the glass. he'll be swimming around, twitch so much that his body like spasms or he totally jerks to the side or off coarse and then stops swimming for half a second before going again. unsure if he was born with it or what may be the cause. curious! =)
right now in terms of his color and his activity, watching his diet, try and change the location of his tank, and add a second plant? i used to feed him two pellets a day. although when i fed him a second pellet in one day, i watched his tummy and it seemed it would slightly bloat. so just started feeding fish one pellet per day, while offering them two pellets seperately once every few days. also, once a few days i feed a bloodworm or brine shrimp to substitute a pellet.
also maybe move his tank to a warmer part of the room where cold air through the window does not reach as much......
as of the twitching, have no clue, lol! i'm praying it's harmless, lol!


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I have seen the twitching before but only in sick fish. In fact, I just had one with a case 0f the twitchies. He also had something that was eating away his fins. He was also very lethargic. He then started hiding behind the filter all the time. Sometimes he would be on the bottom of the tank in a position that looked like his tail fin was holding him up. I did a round of treatment with Furan 2 and he is now 100% normal. 

I don't know for certain WHAT his issue was but I suspect columnaris or something similar to it.

His really did look like he was twitching. He would swim a little and then in the middle he would do a quick twitch - as if he had a neurological issue.

Have you noticed any changes like detoriating fins or fuzz on their body?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

thank you for your response. it's great to know this needs to be treated. glad to know your fish is 100% well. =) 
the twitching you described is exactly the same thing my fish does. although, his tail and fins look normal to me and i don't see anything that looks like fuzz on his body. 
going to do a 100% water change for him right now.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Don't cross- contaminate any equipment with other fish in case it something contagious. Did you share anything between them?

Not sure what the issue is but certainly i think something is wrong since it also started presently, so he didn't have it before. I was thinking if it can be ich. With ich fish would darts or twitch, rub against rocks/gravel/tank ,have white spots,patches on the body or if you shine the light on him if he and see if he is covered with a fine gold or rust mist . 
If it would be columnaris fungal infections he would have white fuzzy cottony like patches.
Did you quarantine that plant in his tank? Sometimes plant can carry parasites .
If it ich you can treat it with aquarium salt and you will need to raise the temperature up to 86*. Raising temperature will help to speed up parasites life cycle and some said can kill them.
I would recommend to do 2tsp/gall of aquarium salt with daily 100% water changes. Take plant out and put it in the vase for 2 weeks with NO water conditioner it will kill any parasites on it.
Would you able to do salt treatment? It really easier if you put fish in the smaller container but i am not sure how you can maintain the temperature in it, unless you can heat his tank up and let him float in his container that you bought him in. 
Unless you want to try to use Furan-2 like Tikibirds did. I think Furan is very good medications but for fungal infection. But again with fungus he would have white fuzzy patches on his body.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Also one more thing i forget is he bloated? Check his poo make sure it not white,clear stringy wormy like shape. I would think that if betta has internal parasite it also can have those symptoms. But usually betta with internal parasites also would be bloated


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

sunlight said:


> Don't cross- contaminate any equipment with other fish in case it something contagious. Did you share anything between them?
> 
> Not sure what the issue is but certainly i think something is wrong since it also started presently, so he didn't have it before. I was thinking if it can be ich. With ich fish would darts or twitch, rub against rocks/gravel/tank ,have white spots,patches on the body or if you shine the light on him if he and see if he is covered with a fine gold or rust mist .
> If it would be columnaris fungal infections he would have white fuzzy cottony like patches.
> ...


hmmm... okay. there are definately no white fuzzy patches on his body. i don't have a flashlight but i shined a tiny key ring holder that shines light on him and also don't see anything that looks like dust was sprinkled on his body. wish i had a really good camera other than my cell phone though. i do notice a reddish color on his upper lip, his head, and the sides of his body. the coloration looks like a part of his skin, perhaps similar to a rash or something (realize fish don't have rashes, lol).
yes, i use the same net for my two fish and the same glass bowl for water changes. the other fish seems okay. just in case, will use the second fish net i have for the other and a different container.
took out the plant and seperated it with no water conditioner for the plant. 
i used aqsalt when i changed his water today. after his change he stopped twitching. then after several minute he starts twitching agan, though not as much as he did before the water change.
would a 2.5 gallon be okay to do a treatment with aq salt or is it best to do a smaller container?
my heater i have is a preset 10w heater from marina. if the water gets below 78 degrees it turns on, and once the water is atleast 78 degrees it shuts off.
i looked for adjusable heaters at petco and petsmart, but they looked like they were too big for a 2.5 gallon? 
will try your recommended dosage of aqsalt treatment and have a sample of his water tested at the store!
appreciate it!!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

sunlight said:


> Also one more thing i forget is he bloated? Check his poo make sure it not white,clear stringy wormy like shape. I would think that if betta has internal parasite it also can have those symptoms. But usually betta with internal parasites also would be bloated


today his poop was mostly round and brown. =) he is slightly bloated. it's because i accidently overfed him. i used to feed him two omega one pellets twice a day (4 total) and noticed him beginning to bloat. i brought it down to two pellets a day, but now feed him one a day, with one frozen bloodworm or brineshrimp treat as a second meal every few days. i think the bloating was due to overfeeding for him!!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

oh, noticed you mentioned poo could be clear. didn't catch it first time i read it, sunlight.  today his poo was mostly round, bown and the very, very edge of his poo may have been clear. it was difficult to tell?


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

there is a slite chance to get internal parasites with frozen blood worms though.So don't feed it on regular basis. 2 pellets a day and brine shrimp should not get him bloated. Did you mean frozen from blood worms from the freezer or it the one in the box freeze dried? I would stop giving him frozen bloow worms keep him on 2 pellets and brine shrimp. If you can soak pellets in the garlic juice it also helps with parasites.
I really need to be sure before make decision if his poo was clear at the edge it can be internal parasites and it need to be treated asap with epsom salt and medications. If you can check and make sure if it really clear at the edges then it is possibilities that he has it. And it better to treat while he is eating. They pass worms with poo. Epsom salt will help purge them out. But epsom salt will not treat it, you need medications.
I am worry though i am not sure how it contiguous since you was using the same net and container. I hope your other guy will not get anything. Watch him. Change his water when you can do not use the same equipment. I don't share anything between my fish even though them not sick, there is always change you know. Do not use frozen blood worms . I would try to soak pellets in the garlic juice even for your other fish see if he likes it, it good to prevent parasites.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Seachem Paraguard, Hikari HealthAid PraziPro, and API General Cure are all very good to use for external parasites but only API General Cure is readily available at Petsmart. The others usually can be found at small indepedent fish stores. When dealing with external parasites, meds with praziquantel, malachite green, methlyene blue, or acriflavine are helpful. For that matter, even Hikari Betta Revive can be very effective for external parasites

All 3 meds can be used for internal or external parasites, although they will be more effective for external. To specifically treat internal parasites, a medicine with metronidazole is best. Hikari HealthAid Metro+ and Seachem Metro both work. 
If you can find Jungle Fizz which should help with internal and ext parasites. API meds good for internal parasites actually.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just pm Sakura about your post. And this was her response to me. So if you can get those medications that she recommended it should help.




Sakura8 said:


> It's possible for them to have both internal and external parasites. In other words, they could have invisible flukes on the outside and tapeworms on the inside. API General Cure would take care of both. Internal parasites can be contagious yes, but it's more likely that the second fish will get them if he is under a lot of stress and his immune system is compromised.
> 
> If he eats frozen bloodworms every day, he could be having a buildup of fat in his system. The clear edges in his poo could be from parasitse, undigested worms, or fat deposits. It's hard to say. I had one fish that only ate frozen bloodworms every day of his life (over a year) but on the other hand, when I fed only bloodworms to my sorority, two girls developed fatty tumors.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

a few more advices. If you can find API General Cure which will take care both internal and ext parasites. I would use it along with epsom salt and if you can raise the temperature this way it will help with internal and external parasites.

With temp over 85-86* will speed up parasites life cycle and help them to fall faster and some said can even kill them. 

Epsom salt will help to purge internal parasites out.

And the reason why i also think that he has something because of the new symptoms onset. 

Do you know how to use salt? Pre mix 2tsp/gall make sure it dissolve change 100% daily along with meds. Redose meds each time.
Garlic juice will help i agree.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

thank you anhel for your help and for passing it along to sakura8!! woke up this morning and his coloration has changed more. i'm pretty sure he lost weight or emaciated? he doesn't realy look healthy at all.  
other fish fantasia looks pretty and well but will change his water just in case after sending this. andy is in a 2.5 gallon tank right now and did a full water change with a quarter of an api genural cure packet and 5 teaspoons of epsom salt. i went to the nearest grocery store to get garlic juice. assuming pure garlic juice would be best? didn't look at the ingedients before buying it. after arriving home, saw it contains garlic juice, vinegar, salt. :/ what do you think? is it safe to feed the fish? i tried feeding it to both andy and fantasia. with the juice, the pellet sinks. andy (sick fish )chased after it, touched it with his mouth, and wouldn't eat it. he swam away. he ate a regular pellet like normal this morning. 
is there a good way to try and feed him the pellet with juice? the only thing i can think of is to put him in a net and try to feed him the pellet with my finger. it may stress him out more though, so... or let the pellet sit in the juice, then rub it in brine shrimp to simply get the smell or something and perhaps try it. trying to pull out ideas.
concerning the api general cure and salt from this morning, andy's apearance and behavior seems exactly the same. may have to watchand give him a few days?
would it make a difference if he was in a 1 gallon bowl with treatment or it wouldn't make a difference versus his 2.5gallon? when changing his water looked and didn't see any poo. 
the heat! would raising the tempurature kill off the parasites and yet let them come back stronger later on? hmm.. 
here's two pictures (not very clear) of andy from this morning!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

here is andy right now.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

here is andy right now. 
fantasia ate the garlicy pellet. but andy... i'll keep trying.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

have ziegler medicated flake tropical fish food for ornamental fish only, but it doesn't say specifically for bettas. would it be bad to give it to him, or would it also be too much since api general cure is also in his water?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry i forget to tell you about garlic juice. I would just take fresh garlic,squeeze it (use garlic press)and then just put a pellet in it. I would not use that juice that you bough with vinegar and salt. I was thinking to write it and forget. Try that, but i don't think it good idea to put him in a net and try to feed him. He is stress enough we don't want to stress him more. It good that he is eating because he needs nutrition to support his immune system which is easier to fight the disease. You can continue to feed them with verities of the food including pellets, blood worms,brine shrimps, you can even give them little tiny pieces of the cooked shrimp.
The answer about if blood worms can carry parasites was negative. Some people saying that it can carry it, some not. But the answer :
Generally, with the frozen and/or processed foods are sterilized and should be free of any parasitic issues/causes to our fish, however, the freezing itself can sometimes cause the cells to burst-making the food void of nutrients-the poor nutrition can often be the cause of health issues-especially when it is the only food being fed. This is why a varied diet is best-this way you can ensure that the fish get the needed nutrition that support them and the immune response.
It really doesn't matter where you will have Andy in 1 gall or 2.5 gall. I am not sure how you can keep the temperature up. I am thinking it would be easier for you even to put him in his container that you bought him from the store and put it in a heated 2.5 gall tank. Do daily water changes even with medications and redose it every time. But take time to acclimate him. Just put new water in his changing cup and let him stay in it for a few minutes and do it for a few times. 
The heat you ask is only for external parasites. Since fish can have internal and external, and the symptoms that andy show might be that he has both of them. That is why i recommending raise the temp. Since medications will help with ext and internal parasites, heat will help with ext parasites. Heat speed up parasites life cycle and help it to fall so you can remove it manually.

ziegler medicated flake tropical fish food good that you have it. It anti-parasites? It fine you can try to feed him. 
And try to check his poo again.
And it good that fantasia eating pellets soak in the garlic. It will work as a preventative and also support immune system. Just use fresh squeezed garlic. I know it kind time consuming to do it but i would use garlic pellets for long time (6-8 weeks ) May be you don't have to use it every day

I really hope that he didn't give it to fantasia though. This is my fear. Because if he has ext parasites and if you use the same net it can go to fantasia. But lets don't panic. Just observe fantasia. If you will see any changes in behavior then we will think what to do. If you want you can increase the temp in fantasia tank and try to do water changes daily for about 5 days. Or if you want just observe make sure there is not changes.
Did you take everything out of the andy tank? I would take out everything and just wash it in the hot water and just leave it to dry out for a few days it will kill all parasites. COMPLETELY DRY OUT. When you change fantasia you can do the same even with gravel. It ok if they will be with out it for short period of time don't worry about that.
Do you have live plants?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

great, thank you so much. will do everything as adviced. appreciate it. andy's heater is actually not adjustable. it turns on when the water hits below 78 degrees. :/ 
the zieglar medicated food... somebody gave them to me a while back, and have no clue what they're specifically for. this helps, huh? 
yes, i have live plants. i took the ones in andy's tank out and put them in seperate water with no conditioner. early in the morning, will change water in both tanks and take out everything except for the heaters and thermometers....
oh oh, yes! fantaia is in a 5.5 gallon tank but i have a 3 gallon tank thats empty. andy was living in it until i changed him this morning to a slightly smaller tank. would the empty tank need to be disinfected? hmm....
going to the store!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Thermometers when you change the tanks just wash them with hot water and let it sit to dry out while you do water changes. Do you have live plant in fantasia tank? I would also take it out and quarantine them.
Well before you feed with that flakes check the expiration date and if it not anti parasitic i don't think you need to use them though. 
3 gall just wash with hot water and let it sit for a few days to dry out. Only one thing easy with parasites -disinfection. Just wash with hot water let it sit for a few days to dry out. Parasites will die without host.
If you want just to make sure and prevent fantasia from getting anything you can also still have her in the floating cup in her 5.5 gall and do daily water changes it can help to prevent external parasites but not internal. Or if you want just watch her and make sure she don't have it, feed with garlic. One thing i am not sure how long usually will take to symptoms onset.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

okay, got it! yes, fantasia has live plants in his tank. will take those out too. i'll change fantasia's tank daily too just in case!! great, alright


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Jungle has a medicated parasite fish food but I haven't seen it for sale lately. Plus bettas don't seem to care for it much. 

If anti parasite fish food is what your after, you can try making your own with betta food if he won't eat those flakes you have.



> _General Cure can be used as a medicated fish food soak by using 1/2 a packet for an average 60 gallon bio load medicated fish preparation. Fish food should be soaked for 15 minutes
> After soak, pour entire contents into aquarium.__ (Additional medication can be added for a full tank treatment; for example with a 30 galloin aquarium, use 1/2 packet in the food soak and use the other half plus two more packets in the aquarium.)_


I did something similar last year but with jungle anti parasite fizz tabs since I was in Alaska with no stores that had any real fish meds. Basically all I did was take the fizz tab. break it into 1/4 the size, fill up one of those cups bettas come in and added the tab. When it was disolved, I added in pellets for several minutes. Getting them OUT again was a bit tricky though. A syringe, eyedropper or turkey baster helps. I then gave him some pellets and let the rest dry out to use at the next feeding. it was a massive PITA but it worked



> today his poo was mostly round, bown and the very, very edge of his poo may have been clear. it was difficult to tell?


 It should look like a brown cinnamon bun.



> i do notice a reddish color on his upper lip, his head, and the sides of his body. the coloration looks like a part of his skin, perhaps similar to a rash or something (realize fish don't have rashes, lol).


It may be his coloring. Lighter colored bettas sometimes have the rash look. I have a female with that look and finally decided it was natural.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

second day treating andy with epsom salt and general cure. regret that i threw the cups andy/fantasia lived in away. will have to keep them next time! his poop was roundish, a very round u shape (similar to like a croissant). i looked super closely several times at the color. brown, yet noticed a darkish white spot. i was afraid to see something like that.  he's less active compared to yesterday. floats still at the surface now. a while back noticed a light coloration below his mouth, but only today i noticed his belly is a greenish color. 
thank you very much. soaked pellets in api general cure for five mins. andy ate some of it and spit some of it out. had to clean the rest out. at least he ate some of it. he takes in a garlic pellet in his mouth, spits that out, and won't eat the garlic pellet at all. :/ he ate a frozen blood worm from the freezer pretty good. he's still eating.
fantasia is getting his water changed when i come back home tonight and almost everything will be taken out of his tank too. he's still acting and looking well...


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

....


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

below is a picture of the little guy in a small food storage container (never used) with holes poked in the lid. i actually bought an adjustable heater today. ooo, my wallet!!!
this heater is a 25 watt and its sitting in a 2.5 gallon tank with andy in the container- prime conditioner, a little bit of epsom salt and api medicine. 
water was 80 degrees all day. with heater, it gradually went to 82. should i bump up temperature 2 degrees every twelve hours until it gets to desired temperature maybe? 
it was a little harder to gently get andy in the net tonight compared to thi morning. hope this means he's getting stronger? hopefully? *praying like no other!!!*


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

whoops, here's the pic of andy in the container. does this look okay?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Didn't see the picture
BRown poo is normal. Broiken up white, with some transparent parts here and there would be a better determination of internal parasites.
light coloration below his mouth is it like fuzzy,cottony patch or just coloration of the skin?
Somethimes belly can change the color because of the parasites in the stomach. Not sure why his belly change the color. If he indeed has internal parasites then it might be the reason 

Not sure why he is less active. Raise the temp slowly up to 84*. Do you do daily water changes? And don't lower the dose of the epsom. And you just redosing the medications right?
It really good that he is eating. And it good that at least he takes pellets with garlick , even though he spit them out. I think that garlick juice will get inside.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

don't forget to make holes in the lid? Is he still less active?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

light coloration beneath his mouth is just the color of his skin. his body, except for his belly and head is sooo skinny. not sure why he's not moving. he barely moves. when and if he swims around he'll be twitching. he sometimes would seem to twitch more when he swims now (which is not often). 
yes, i do daily 100% changes and use recommended dosage of epsom salt and and medicine. although, tonight in his food container put two tsp of epsom salt and a quarter amount of api gc packet in the water inside the food container? 
yes, he's still very unactive. 
will keep some water over night with no conditioner to acclimate it before i change his water and redose everything tomorrow...


ANHEL123 said:


> Didn't see the picture
> BRown poo is normal. Broiken up white, with some transparent parts here and there would be a better determination of internal parasites.
> light coloration below his mouth is it like fuzzy,cottony patch or just coloration of the skin?
> Somethimes belly can change the color because of the parasites in the stomach. Not sure why his belly change the color. If he indeed has internal parasites then it might be the reason
> ...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

.

If you will keep water over night you still can put conditioner. I do it all the time. Poor baby. If he is eating keep feeding him. You can feed him even 3 times a day . I am really thinking that it internal parasites. With internal parasites fish will loose weight despite eating.

Tomorrow you can even increase epsom to 3 tsp/gall. Sorry i hope he can get better. Epsom salt don't hurt him at all.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

yup, his water is 84. his lid has holes too. thank you, anhel123.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Please give update when you can, sorry


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## Sakejing (Oct 21, 2012)

hey i have the exact same problem. ive made up a new thread of my own.PLease inbox me if you found out how to fix the problem. ill inbox you too once i find out.


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