# ChelseaK's Marble Spawn(s) Log



## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Hello all! I'm very excited about this spawn, however, as I had stated in my Teaser, the goal of this spawn is not for selling fry but is for developing my marble line. But, I will be selling the unwanted fry to the first takers ( I already have one in line but you can PM me if you are interested).

With that said, let us proceed! 

Note* To clarify, the females and Celli were from a Marble HMPK x Marble DeT spawn. Therefore they have both have the short fin recessive trait which should help me get some HMPK out of the line. 

Spawn #1
Pongo x Female 1
Fins: HMPK x DeT
Coloration: Dragon Black & White Marble x Black & White Marble


















Spawn # 2
Celli x Female 2
Fins: DeT x DeT
Coloration: Cellophane Marble x Blue, green, white Marble


















Sorry for the poor picture.

The fish were conditioned in 1/2 gallon buckets floating in heated water. 
This was the spawn tank setup:









Not bad for my first attempt at a double spawn, haha. I would do it differently if I do it again, but this did well. There are three different dividers so the males couldn't see each other plus fake plants in front of it. 

The males quickly made bubblenests when they were put in the spawn tank. Pongo always has his mouth slightly open so his bubbles were quite large, which made me worry because I hadn't never experienced that kind of nest before. The females were in their own containers in the tank for three days before they were released. 
Here are some videos of the introductions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eoqjncaqfec&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSuWs4aIOes



Pongo was trying to show off a lot more than Celli was, he was a lot more aggressive it seemed. Female 1 was very aggressive as well, but I kept a close eye on them. Female 2 was more submissive after about 20 minutes. For the next couple days, the males spent more time under their nests trying to lure the females. That next Friday, I walked in on spawn #2 embracing under the nest but quickly realized this was not their first spawn for there were already fry under the nest. When Celli started chasing the female away, I removed her from the tank. 

Pongo and Female one had also had some very clumsy embraces, however it was also not their first spawn either. Pongo was very exhausted so I took him and the females out, as well as the tank divider and let Celli take over both nests. He was very active which made me worry that he had been eating some of the fry. 

The days after made me realize what a good father Celli was. He was not eating any fry or eggs, he made another smaller bubblenests on the other side of the tank from the filter and had condensed all of the eggs into that nest. He even tried spitting the free swimmers into the nest but they would not stay there (little buggers). Once the youngest fry were free swimming Celli was removed and put into his conditioning tub. The other fish were already back in their homes and doing great (except for female #2 who underwent a bit of fin damage so she was floating in her sorority with medication and was released back into the sorority the same time as two new girls were out of quarantine) 

It became clear that I had a wide variety of ages within my tank, which made me wonder if the bigger fry were going to munch on the smaller ones. I still am a little worried about that for I do not see as many of the small fry as I once did, however they do hide a lot easier than the big ones. 

I experienced disaster when the BBS eggs that I had were not longer good and my LFS did not have any in stock, so the fry have not yet had anything live to eat, but they have been munching on First Bites as well as insforia from the moss in the tank. I hope to have microworms by Monday and am going to keep checking my LFS to see when they get those eggs in. 

SO, in recap, the oldest fry in the tank are most likely just about 3 weeks old today, and the youngest are over 1 and a half weeks. This is my first spawn in an actually tank so it's great being able to see them from the sides and not just over head. In fact, and I wish I could get a good picture of this, one of the bigger fry already looks to have bluish metallic coloration. (Excitement!) Now, unfortunately I will not be able to tell what fry belongs to what spawn, and I did not intend on having them mixed, but because Pongo was in such bad shape, I had to for the sake of the fry. Regardless, the best fry will be kept no matter what spawn they are from. 

Here are the best pictures I have of the little guys! Enjoy!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

The fry are adorable and your fish are just so pretty! I love your females and that one HMPK white marble dragon male!

Okay, ONE question. Are they in the same tank with just a few dividers in between? Both the spawns?

-BL2033


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

The spawns both happened in the same 20 gallon tank with a divider in the middle. I stated that the divider was taken out after both the females and Pongo were taken out of the tank so that Celli could take care of both nests. So all of the fry are in one tank with no dividers. I hope that answers your question


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes it does, but when breeding, you shouldn't mix the fry nor dump all that work on a fish. Though im sure this is not so bad. But your not going to know which is which when you see them all grown up.

-BL2033


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Actually I read a lot about mixing spawns through my research before attempting it, plus this male wasn't doing any more work because the other spawn did not have any unhatched eggs and were all free swimming, as I had stated.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes I know, but what about when they get older, your not going to know which is which. Or is that what you wanted?

Just curious.

-BL2033


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

omg. they are all amazing. good luck. and i think it is a good idea mixing them.


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Haha, as I had said, it didn't matter what spawn they were from because the best fish were the best fish and those were the ones that were going to be kept. Three of the four were siblings therefore all from the same line so their genetics only differ slightly with the Dragon being added in and I should be able to tell which those are, although with them being only half dragon, it may not be apparent, but regardless, when they are bred again, that will show whether they are dragon or not. So I guess in short, I'm not too concerned about which spawn they came from because they all will have pretty much the same genetics. Plus I have a pretty good idea which sizes are from what spawn since they are different sizes.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

OOO! That is really some interesting stuff going on here. I think I might try this! I love experimental breeding! Obviously you'll be able to tell from the dragons.

-BL2033


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Well hopefully. Usually even when they are Dragon x Dragon you still don't see much until the F2s, but I did read of a Dragon x Dragon post on here and he had full dragon scaling so I'm hopefully. Either way, the dragon scaling will be a branch of my line sooner or later, haha. 

Thanks mernin, I really want to get a picture of that one that already has color! It's so cool!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I think im going to find an article about dragon breeding.


Anyway, how are the fry doing now?

-BL2033


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

I have an article I can post for you, I gotta get the link off my phone. 

The fry are good, they hang out by the filter a lot because that's where all the food gets stuck, haha.

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=784

This site has a lot of good information too on genetics in general


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

That sounds a lot like when I bred bettas. They always hung out at the filter. Some would get curious and swim over then leave.

Thanks, I was just going to go to that site too. That's crazy! I like that site and Bettatalk.com She had all of the fry stages and what they should look like as well!

-BL2033


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

so what i don't get it is you say that you will only keep the best. are you going to cull them down or sell them. because i want like 7 of these guys.


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

What there is an interest in will be sold but If I don't get enough interest I may have to cull them down. I know that you want some and I am keeping you in mind don't worry haha.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

okay. cant wait to see wat they look like when they grow up.


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

*UPDATES! And Pictures*

Water change day! Woot Woot.
This was their first major water change, about 5 gallons were added to the tank, 2.5 (about) tank out. 

The big guys are growing a lot faster than the small ones unfortunately, but the little guys are hanging in there. I think it's a territory thing, the big ones are always by the filter, the smaller ones (with the exception of Big Boy Blue), are usually at the other end hiding in the fake plants and rocks. 
Big Boy Blue is the one that is already showing a metallic blue coloration to him, I still have yet to get a good picture of it , I wish I had a better camera, birthday present anyone? Ha. 

Still have NO live food but the worms are on their way, and they seem to be gobbling up the first bites quite well, a lot better than I expected in fact, however that I know that I lost a lot of the youngest ones due to the food, which is sad, but it still makes my job a lot easier (as far as picking and choosing that is). From the looks of it, I may not have to cull any (with the exception of any deformities), because it looks like a reasonable number of fry in the tank. YAY!!! And their tail fins,  I'm pleased to say already are looking pretty wide so I'm very hopeful. 

Without further adieu, pictures!








\
"Hello! I'm in the center! I'm Tiny!" 
This is the smallest one that was out and about, probably because water was being added in his corner of the tank. 











I'm such an awful photographer  But you can at least see some size here!




























You can see the spread a bit in the tail. 









nom.

Okay, now this one I need a little advice on. I would think it would be ick, but I'm not sure. He does have little white dots on him, he is currently in his own container floating in the tank. 








I know this is an awful picture, but it's the best I have, haha.


That's it for now!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well I think they are very pretty! All of them! And I do see the "darker" ones are so big! I do see a little bit of dark color on the fry in the 4th picture.

-BL2033


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They're adorable!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

ANY new updates?

-BL2033


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

They fry are doing well, the oldest will be 4 weeks on Friday, and they are growing fast. Hopefully, I have no more than 25 in the tank, that should be an OK number for me to take care of and sell, and that's about how many I can count, however, there are always little ones hiding in the java moss when I'm doing a head count, haha.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well IMO that is the exciting part!

-BL2033


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

When the numbers are greater than 10, it's really hard to know how many you have because they are always darting around. I love watching them.


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

You're telling me! my last spawn I thought I counted about 20 and I ended up having 63


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow, 60 is a pretty good amount.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree! 60 bettas are a lot of responsibility. Nice for a *(First Spawn)* ? I'm sorry is this your first spawn?


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

That last one was my first successful spawn, the one before that ended in the dad freaking out and eating all the eggs ( the freaking out part is an exaggeration). But yes, 60 was definitely a lot more than I had expected but I was able to handle it somehow haha


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

The most that I have had in a spawn was 93 bettas and they were a handful. They also were sold VERY quick! I was so surprised that people wanted Deltas so bad. Then I wanted to breed VT's again and got about 75 (estimated) and they were sold pretty quick as well.

60 is a really good number to work with. Im happy for you and hope that you have fun with this.

IMO the hardest part about breeding is raising the fry. Its very challenging and takes a lot of patience in a person. You'd also have to have an interest in them because if you're just try to make profit off of them then you're not going very far!
Not you personally Chelsea, but in general.


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