# Eco-Complete Vs. Regular Gravel?



## Mashiro (Dec 2, 2012)

What are the benefits of Eco-Complete Vs. regular gravel? The pros and cons? 

I keep hearing something about CEC and I don't know what that means.

Also, a big question I have is if I get Eco-Complete, do I still need root tabs?


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Don't quote me on this, but I *think* the difference lies in the type of rock that's used. Gravel is well....gravel. EcoComplete on the other hand is like lava rock or something similar. It's super porous and is able "hold on" to nutrients dosed into the water column, thus keeping them around longer for better usage by the plants (referred to as "CEC;" cation exchange capacity). It's also supposed to come in a water-based solution that contains bacteria, but I'm not sure how true or helpful that is.

For pros and cons, there aren't really too many pros to gravel when compared to a 'premium' substrate like EC. Gravel would be easier for plants to root in since it's more coarse, but that's about it. 

That said, both substrates are inert so no matter which route you went, you'd have to use root tabs if you had heavy root feeders like swords. I personally chose Floramax over Eco-Complete. It's the exact same product (a little coarser, though) but without the bacteria solution and, when I bought it at Petsmart, was almost 12 dollars cheaper.  

The only thing about Floramax is that people have said it clouds the water initially. It did, but a few 50% water changes and the bio-magnet clarifier they give you in the bag takes care of that.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

The "water" that EcoComplete is shipped in is gimmicky at best ... no telling how long the bag has been on the shelf in a warehouse or the store. There won't be any live bacteria in it by the time you get it. I tend to rinse, or at least drain it and ignore the instructions that say not to.

The previous poster is right, you still need ferts - but I rarely use them in my planted tanks with ecocomplete, because I rarely vacuum cycled planted tanks (it's all fertilizer in the end) and generally don't have high light or high tech tanks so the plants don't have high requirements.

If you are planting, EcoComplete is a MUCH better choice than gravel. I haven't used Floramax.


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## intothebloo (Apr 29, 2013)

Eco Complete is designed as a first layer type substrate fertilizer. It's 100% better to go with it than gravel for a planted aquarium. From everything I've read about it it's supposed to be the best in the industry next to all Amanos stuff. It's awesome, gives your roots all the stuff they really need. Gravel is just rocks. No minerals with them whatsoever. I've never used root tabs in planted aquariums. Just use a good substrate and liquid fertilizers + CO2 and good lighting. If you went with plain gravel I'd use root tabs.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

I have ecocomplete. Get it. You might pay 20 bucks for it but you'll pay 15 for gravel that wont enrich your plants. You probably wont have to use root tabs with ecocomplete unless you have a high care level plant. You can also use flourite, but it looks more "natural" than ecocomplete or gravel so it depends on the look you are going for. I hear that flourite build stronger root systems so look into it  Eco complete is also a lot cleaner, there is some initial clouding but you are going to be rinsing flourite forever. The only advantage that gravel has over eco complete is that gravel is a lot heavier, and you might have to replant things that do not have roots in ecocomplete or secure it with river rocks or something. If you can afford ecocomplete, getting gravel would be a waste of time and money unless color is a big deal to you.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

intothebloo said:


> Eco Complete is designed as a first layer type substrate fertilizer. It's 100% better to go with it than gravel for a planted aquarium. From everything I've read about it it's supposed to be the best in the industry next to all Amanos stuff. It's awesome, gives your roots all the stuff they really need. Gravel is just rocks. No minerals with them whatsoever. I've never used root tabs in planted aquariums. Just use a good substrate and liquid fertilizers + CO2 and good lighting. If you went with plain gravel I'd use root tabs.


Eco-Complete contains NO fertilizer. It is high CEC, so it can hang onto fertilizer, but you absolutely definitely need to use fertilizer with it - even root tabs. It is completely inert on its own. Even the packaging tells you that.


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## heavenlolwut (Jan 23, 2013)

tekkguy said:


> Eco-Complete contains NO fertilizer. It is high CEC, so it can hang onto fertilizer, but you absolutely definitely need to use fertilizer with it - even root tabs. It is completely inert on its own. Even the packaging tells you that.


Poking my head in because I just ordered Eco-complete myself, what kind of fertilizers are best for it?
Also can you put a cap on Eco-Complete? 


/supersorryforhijackingthread ;-;


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## Mashiro (Dec 2, 2012)

heavenlolwut said:


> Poking my head in because I just ordered Eco-complete myself, what kind of fertilizers are best for it?
> Also can you put a cap on Eco-Complete?
> 
> 
> /supersorryforhijackingthread ;-;


Heh, no worries.

But I've heard the best ferts are by Seachem. Flourish and Flourish Excel. Some people get Flourish Iron too for their red colored plants. Iron really makes the Rotala indica look redder, or so I hear.

I would not recommend a cap as it would eventually just fall down into the substrate and give you a 50/50 sand/Eco-Complete substrate that's all mixed together. 

I see no benefit there.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Any ferts are fine. I use Flourish Comprehensive for the water column, and if I bother to use any kind of root tabs, I have some Osmocote+ gelcaps that I bought from another hobbyist who made them. Any kind of root tab is fine also.

As far as a cap goes, yeah, capping with anything will result in an eventual mix. However, Eco is VERY hard to plant in when the tank is full of water because it is very light. Sand will help with that to some extent if you decide to cap. I just use two pairs of planting tongs instead of one. One to hold the plant, and one to do the planting. That way the plant doesn't float up while I'm trying to fill in the hole with floating Eco.


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## MoneyMitch (Aug 3, 2009)

ive used eco complete in the past along with gravel and sand... all with high light. the eco complete didn't yield any better results then any of the other substrates in my experience. I just stick to sand gravel and eventually going to try a soil sub.


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## intothebloo (Apr 29, 2013)

tekkguy said:


> Eco-Complete contains NO fertilizer. It is high CEC, so it can hang onto fertilizer, but you absolutely definitely need to use fertilizer with it - even root tabs. It is completely inert on its own. Even the packaging tells you that.


Here.. howbout I give you some quotes from the manufacturers & Sellers.. 

Why does Eco-Complete™ planted aquarium substrate outperform other products? For the same reason that Hawaii, Bali and Costa Rica are famous for lush, exuberant plant growth. *The secret lies in rich basaltic volcanic soil which contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants.* Eco-Complete™ Planted Aquarium Substrate is *mineralogically and biologically complete*, giving you luxuriant aquatic plant growth without nuisance algae! *Iron rich Eco‑Complete™ eliminates the need for laterite.* No artificial dyes, paints, or chemical coatings. Eco-Complete™ has highly porous spherical grains for optimum diffusion performance and contains live Heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants. It establishes a natural biological balance which makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer. 


and this one: 


Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate *contains more than 25 minerals* to nourish aquatic plants. Packed in Liquid Amazon buffered "Black Water" solution, Eco-Complete offers immediate organic water conditioning - no rinsing required. Choose coarse- or fine-grade (black only) substrate to suit your exact needs. Eco-Complete includes live, Heterotrophic bacteria to convert fish waste into natural food for your plants. Both original Eco-Complete Black and Eco-Complete Red are iron rich and eliminate the need for laterite supplementation.


Sounds like it contains fertilizers to me? CEC has to do with the cations relating to PH value of a soil.. it's talking about the fact that it's able to hang onto the nutrients that it has.. and then some. Eco-complete is porous so it's able to not only retain it's nutrients (not losing the ones it already has) and accumulate new.. as well as host lots of bacteria. The definition of fertlizer is a natural or chemical substance added to a substrate to increase fertility. Natural/chemical substances are for example: iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur.


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## heavenlolwut (Jan 23, 2013)

I really don't care if they mix. :] So I may throw the sand in anyway!
Thank you guys a bunch and thank you for not minding me hijacking the thread!


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

intothebloo said:


> Here.. howbout I give you some quotes from the manufacturers & Sellers..
> 
> ((SNIP))
> 
> Sounds like it contains fertilizers to me? CEC has to do with the cations relating to PH value of a soil.. it's talking about the fact that it's able to hang onto the nutrients that it has.. and then some. Eco-complete is porous so it's able to not only retain it's nutrients (not losing the ones it already has) and accumulate new.. as well as host lots of bacteria. The definition of fertlizer is a natural or chemical substance added to a substrate to increase fertility. Natural/chemical substances are for example: iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur.


Minerals and fertilizers are DIFFERENT things. Please see their own site:

http://www.caribsea.com/itempage_freshwatersubstrate_ecoplanted.htm

Search for the word "fertilizer" on that page. You will find the following:



> Question:
> Hi i was wondering how long does the Eco-Complete™ Planted last in a tank and also is it ok to add like a samd on top or will that defeat the purpose of the Eco-Complete™ Planted and lastly does Eco-Complete™ Planted take in the nutrients from the water column and feed the roots with it cause im gonna fertilize the water column and need a substrate that will do that.
> 
> Answer:
> Eco-Complete™ Planted will last indefinitely. It won’t break down or turn to mud. *Eco-Complete™ Planted will supply trace elements that the plant needs but does not supply a fertilizer component ie. N,P or K. You either need to add the fertilizer or have fish in there that you feed regularly.*


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## DefStatic (Mar 17, 2013)

All subtrates, whether they have minerals/ferts in them out of the bag will eventually become inert. 

Only reason I am using FloraMax is because it was on sale for $10 a bag. Otherwise I would have probably gotten sand LOL.

If you have stem plants, with roots growing under the substrate, and are not using root tabs, you are hindering yourself and your plants. Dont feel like paying $6 for API Root tabes only to get like 12 tabs? Find someone selling homemade Osmocote+ Gel Tabs. For $6 you can usually get 50 of those. Follow the makers instructions, and they should last 3 months.


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## Mashiro (Dec 2, 2012)

Really? Those gel tabs on Ebay and such actually work?

I thought they might eventually poison your fish or something.


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## intothebloo (Apr 29, 2013)

The true definition of fertilizer is natural and chemical substances to better the fertility of a plant. Minerals (ie natural substances that better the fertility of a plant) and other chemical compounds fall into that category. They even state in that quote naturally occuring chemical compounds due to the waste of fish are going to add to the developement of your plants (ie nitrogen) and what I said (to add liquid fertilizers - which contain get this! Not only several chemical compounds ! BUT MINERALS AND TRACE ELEMENTS). Read a bottle of fertilizer, what does it have in it? You stated you use Comprehensive read it. My bottle says it contains the following: Nitrogen,Phosphate,Potash,CALCIUM,MAGNESIUM,SULFUR,BORON,CHLORINE,COBALT,COPPER,IRON,MANGANESE,MOLYBDENUM,SODIUM,ZINC. (Those all look like minerals and trace elements to myself, plus nitrogen and phosphate are already naturally occurring in your water.. Unless you're using reverse osmosis ofcourse, that would then require the need to add small amounts of phosphate)

Im not even going to bother with other "ferts", anyone can see what element they are used to to source on the bottle.. Take a chemistry course or two... 

Going on what I've said, if you use good lighting, a good substrate, liquid fertilizers and CO2 and you'll be set. No need for root tabs because the substrate already contains the minerals you need for healthy roots.. I never said you didn't have to dose extra fertilizers I just said the substrate eliminated the need for root tabs as that is why it was designed... to give your roots what they need... I've never used root tabs and my planted aquariums are thriving.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Mashiro said:


> Really? Those gel tabs on Ebay and such actually work?
> 
> I thought they might eventually poison your fish or something.


Yes, but if you buy some make sure you buy Osmocote+ tablets, and not just Osmocote. The + contains a better mix of nutrients. Also, make sure that they are DEEP in the substrate so you don't have any nutrient spikes in the water column.

As to the other questions regarding EcoComplete, I won't respond any further. It is obvious that there are some on this thread that are becoming incapable of carrying on a decent conversation, and cannot understand the difference between trace elements and fertilizer. You can do some research and figure out what you think is best.


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## intothebloo (Apr 29, 2013)




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## DefStatic (Mar 17, 2013)

I wouldn't buy off eBay, but I guess it couldn't hurt. I buy my capsules from other planted tank members on other forums. Also best place to get plants.

No one is saying you can't grow plants without root tabs. I can grow plants in Petco Sand. But it also depends on what you are growing. The typical plants you can get from Petco/Petsmart are not going to require a ton of work to keep. Same for mosses.

But there are plants that you will require different ferts for or you will just fail. And either way, all plants can benefit from proper liquid ferts and root tabs. 

Just like CO2 is no requirement for many plants as well. But some you either will fail or have very little growth without using CO2 or at least something like Excel. And again, all plants will benefit (for the most part) form CO2 or Excel. Some choose not to use it because of the price to properly do it right. Some because of the degree of difficulty. Others choose not too because they do not want to have to do daily trimming because the plants are growing so fast.

Also, do not cap something like Ecocomplete with sand, at least from what I know and my experience. It will just suck the sand down.


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