# Gill issues? Fungus? Help!!



## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

One of my boys is having issues. His gill is sticking open. It's very difficult to get a look inside it, but when I do, I see a bunch of light grey/white looking stuff. I've got him cupped now and in the water I also see some white dots on him and some feathery looking stuff. At first I thought it might be ich, but the stuff in his gill looks a bit like that, so I thought it might just be the gunk coming out of him. I'm treating him with 1tsp gallon of AQ salt, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with what I'm seeing in the water.

None of the other boys in the tank (it's shared with four other fish) have any white spots or gill issues. All but one are eating normally and the one that isn't eating is sometimes picky anyway and is zipping around the tank and otherwise normal.

The only thing that's changed is that I had to completely change out my filter media. It had gotten to the point where it was disintegrated. My nitrates were somewhat high when I checked today (over 40 but below 80). I did a 25% water change and they dropped down to around 20, which is where they usually are. All other parameters are normal.

I had a sick boy a week ago who ended up dying, but his only symptoms were bloat and lethargy. He was QT'd right after I discovered his bloat. He did NOT go gently. He looked very odd when I found him. Like his head was puffed up or something. 

I've included what pictures I can get. He really doesn't like the light shone on him, so it was very difficult to get anything. 

Any ideas as to what he might have and any possible treatment aside from the AQ salt?

I appreciate any help!


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## BettaPR (Jul 21, 2013)

does he have pop eyes?


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

His eyes look a little odd to me too. His gill is inflamed, and this could be caused by nitrate poisoning and possibly bacterial infection.


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## BettaPR (Jul 21, 2013)

i recommend bettafix treatment for a week or two depending on his progress, then a water change. API Master Kit, buy it, use it, pretty simple.

and please tell me that is not his home in the pics


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

His eyes have always looked like that. 

That's not his permanent home. Just the QT cup which looks odd because it's sitting on top of the glass lid of the big tank. 

I actually have that test kit and check once a week. The parameters have been fine until now. I'm guessing it's because I had to change my filter media on Friday. 

Is it possible for only one fish to be bothered by high nitrates? None of the other four that share his tank are having issues.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How big is that shared tank ?
How much water do you usually change and how often?
How often he has this problem?
When you using filter make sure you always rinse filter media/cartridge/foam/pad so that dirt does not block the water flow and rinse off all that gunk off them , it gathers a lot daily from the water.
Does he has any other symptoms like scratching, flashing , darting? Does he has raised scales on his body at all? Sometimes fish can have ext parasites that bury under the skin, that is why i asking that.Is he still eating normally? If he has any other symptoms , how long he has them?
Also every time when you had any fish died in the tank always do a large water change. Never afraid to do water changes. You can do as much as you want , it will not affect the cycle. The bacteria live on surfaces not so much in the water.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks so much for replying Anhel!

The tank is a 20 gallon long - split 6 ways (but there are only five fish in it now). I change 50-75% of the water once weekly. There are two filters and two heaters. The water is usually around 80 degrees. Sometimes when it gets cold, it will drop to 78, but it never goes below that.

I didn't notice the gill sticking out until yesterday, so he's only been showing symptoms for a couple of days at most. Before that he was eating and moving around as normal. 

I wouldn't say he's been darting around or trying to scratch himself and there are no raised scales that I can see. He's actually been just laying on the bottom or floating at the top not moving very much. He tried to eat a pellet yesterday but spit it out.

His symptoms are:

Gill open on one side
White areas inside the gill (I can't get a good enough look to see much of the white, but I have seen what looks like little tufts or strings of stuff coming out)
There's a tiny red spot on the surface of the gill that I don't think was there before
He's not moving around very much (though he has no difficulty doing so)
He's not eating

I changed probably 75% of the water on Friday (that's when I replaced the filter media). I also changed about 25% yesterday to get the nitrates down. Should I do another one today for the fish still in the tank? I've got the sick boy in a cup floating in the water.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am so sorry couldn't reply earlier. Somehow also it is difficult for me to log in here from home. I can easily log in from work , not sure why.
I hate to tell you, it really breaks my heart but i think that 80% it can be gill flukes. And if they all shared the same tank they all will get it. And since it been only a few days other bettas can show symptoms later. 
If he can get Kordon Rid Ich or any other med that has formalin in it. Malachite Green and Formalin are one of the main cornerstones of fish disease treatments having been used for many years against a range of parasites. They can be used together or separately as anti-parasite treatments against as Gyrodactylus (skin flukes), Dactylogyrus (gill flukes).
For now while you don't have those medications start with API General cure.
I am so sorry to say but i think gill fluke is one of the most difficult to get rid of so prepper to fight. There is some one else who is treating her 6 bettas with gill flukes. I want to post a link for you. You can read it - there is all answers right there. And there is a picture how she kept her bettas. You can use a separate container to float in your big tank. You can put them in the small containers and do daily water changes. Check out the link i will post for you, let me know what you think and if you need help. That person still treating so no one i guess can give you a resolution answer but you need to continue to treat , do not stop.Do not stop the treatment if you still any symptoms. You need to treat at least about 10 days after you see any symptoms at all. And even after you will see no symptoms at all i would give them a salt bath. Also i read is that when treating any kind of parasite, it's best to treat once, wait about three weeks, and then treat again to get any eggs/larvae that may have grown up. The three weeks is about how long it would take for the eggs to hatch and grow up into adult parasites.
Don't afraid to over treat them because if it will come back you will need to treat again anyway. They Sorry for saying it but i didn't see a lot of fish survived with gill flukes. The thread that i followed for a long time , someone treated fish for a long time , and even after we thought that we got rid of them and fish was doing good for 3 wks , the flukes came back. So the owner treated again. Not sure what is outcome since she never update her thread ever after we ask her. 
But in your situation i would really afraid to put them in the main tank even if you will think that they recovered . I would wait for a very long time , definitely longer than 6 wks after any symptoms stopped.

Let me know which med's you can find. Any with formalin including Kordon Rid Ich. You also can get that Malachite Green and Formalin . The person on that thread did 2 wks of Malachite Green and 2 wks of General Cure + he was doing salt dips 3tsp/gall. You can try that. Also there is one more med's that you can use ,but you need to order it on line or you can check in the private fish store . But i would wait on that. It Clout.
Ok here is the other link and please let me know if i confused you and if you have more questions. Also keep eye on other fish , if it indeed gill flukes they will show symptoms..
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=348489


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I happened to wake up and see this. Thanks so much for the help. 

A couple of things... My fish ate a few pellets today, which is an improvement from yesterday. He's also moving around more, but doesn't appear to be trying to rub himself on anything. His gill is still open but looks slightly better. Still no obvious symptoms in the big tank but I will keep a close eye on them. Should I go ahead and treat them or wait to see if another shows symptoms? I don't want to medicate with no cause but I also don't want to wait until there's little chance for recovery to try. 

I have General Cure and if Petsmart carries the Rid Ich I can get that tomorrow. I'm already treating the sick boy's water with 1tsp/gallon of AQ salt. Should I continue that?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would continue to treat him since the improvement might came from the treatment You don't want to stop it and get him worse again

As for others hmmm i would also afraid if you not treating they might show symptoms later and it will be too late to treat them. It really could take a few days for symptoms to show. I forgot to mention a few other symptoms for gill flukes are gasping for air,secretion of the mucus. 
I would treat them. And i think you can put him back in the main tank and treat all of them. If it gill flukes they all all got it anyway. I would not take a chance to wait If you absolutely don't want to treat then i guess observe for all those symtptoms that i listed in my other post and the one that i mantioned now. If you see any of those you will know to treat right away. 
Also i found this link you can follow those directions .Praziquate in that link, is the one that in API General cure
http://goldfish2care4.com/goldfish-diseases/flukes.html

As for salt you can hold it, and do it after the treatment because salt will definitely help but will not get rid of them. Salt is good for disinfecting wounds after they have from those parasites. I think it better to use it after the treatment.

Do not stop the treatment even if you think none of them have any symptoms. If you read those links in the other thread you will understand why. Flukes lay eggs and even if fish don't have any symptoms or if we got rid of them the eggs can still be in the fish gills and hatch , so you need to continue to treat .

So you have a few choices:

1. Try to treat with General cure just like that link recommending and then i would follow up with salt. Observation for 2 wks. Have another medications on hand (cardon rid ich or any other medications with formalin, which can be API Quick Cure) Api Quick Cure store in dark location. I just google and API Quick Cure has active ingredients malachite green and formalin so try to get this one.

2.Second choice do what other person did in that other thread i gave you , start with API General Cure for a few weeks and continue with other medications that med's i listed above. And then salt.

Do not afraid overdose , with gill flukes its better to overdose than undertreat , and then if you undertreat you need to treat again anyway. Please let me know if i confused you with all my instructions. I am at work and it is soooo crazy busy here


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I will stop the salt and begin using the General Cure today. Do you know of an easy dosage method for a 1 gallon jug? The medication comes in packets meant to treat 10 gallons.

None of the fish (including the sick one) appear to be gasping for air. The sick boy comes up to the top a bit more to gulp air, but his breathing doesn't appear to be labored or anything. I'll update again this evening after I get home from work and check up on everyone.

Is this the Quick Cure you were talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Prod...=1395259851&sr=8-2&keywords=mardel+quick+cure

If that's it, I'll order it today.

So let me get this straight.

1. Treat with General Cure for the treatment period on the box
2. Wait and observe 2 weeks
3. Start treating with QuickCure when I get it 

Or should I start treating with the QuickCure right when I get it? 

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to do it right so my boy has a chance.

Thanks again for all your help!!


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Update:

The other fish appear to be normal, thankfully. 

My sick boy looks worse though. His gill area looks very inflamed now, both on the outside and inside. Whereas it was a light pink in the original pictures, it's turning more angry red now. He still seems to be breathing okay and he ate four tiny pellets. His poop is brown. He's still moving around okay and shows interest in me and in food, but he looks worse. 

I dosed him with the General Cure. I'll continue to follow the directions on that for the treatment period.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

And you are completely sure that he has flukes? I'm still wondering about inflamed gills being do to a bacterial infection.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I honestly do not know. It started with an open gill and a some white stuff, now has moved to an open gill, swollen around it and inflamed looking.

What would be the treatment if it was bacterial?


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Ok so just to be very sure, can you do some internet searches for symptoms of gill flukes?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Symptoms that I got from an aquarium wiki.

Rapid breathing - Not really
Loss of appetite - No, he's been eating
Discoloured gill filaments - They were whitish or a light pink before, now red
Swollen gills - Yes
Gasping at the water surface or laying at the bottom due to the gill damage - I don't really know if he's gasping at the surface more. He doesn't do it that much when I observe him in the tank, but he does when I'm moving him around to change the water in his cup. He stays toward the top of the cup - never lying in the bottom
Gill cover is clapped shut or permanently open - One gill is definitely open
Skin cloudiness resulting from excess mucus production - Haven't noticed this

One thing I've read in a few places is the flashing, darting and rubbing and he's done none of that this entire time.

So some of the symptoms seem to fit, but others don't. Diagnosing illness in fish is so frustrating.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm looking this up as well, and finding that a lot of the symptoms of flukes are not matching him, just a couple. Start searching inflamed gills and see if this sounds more like what he has.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm honestly not sure. It's like there's a mix of the two.

I did notice that now it looks like there's an area turning grey/white right under where his pectoral fin on the opposite side his body from the open gill. 

I just don't know what to treat for... Parasites? Bacteria? Both?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

difficult to say. Inflamed gills could be from flukes. But the only thing is, if they all shared the tank and if it is indeed flukes than all of them would have them. But sometimes it takes time for the symptoms onset. So we can wait and see how other bettas doing and lf any of them will have any of the symptoms then it is 100% gill flukes. Not sure how long it takes for symptoms onset though.
Meanwhile I think its a good idea to continue to treat the sick guy with General cure and do not stop even if he feels better. General cure can be used for a longer time than the instructions recommendations. Follow this schedule
http://goldfish2care4.com/goldfish-diseases/flukes.html

For other guys just do more water changes about 50% daily , rinse filter media media/cartridge/foam/pad in the dechlorinated water.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

If I get the Quickcure, should I begin using that or continue with the General Cure? I want to use the better of the two medications to give him a better chance.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Convenient way to dose General Cure is to get a container that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Add the dosage of General Cure and mix well. Then add 1/2 cup of medicated water per 1 gall of tank water.

Sorry didn't read your last post yet, at work....


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i don't know if anyone can answer it....i hope someone will come along and help. I followed a few threads (the one of them i gave you in my earlier post). That one was treating with General cure ,then follow with very strong medication and her fish stopped having any symptoms . But in 2 wks or so the symptoms returned. She treated again with General cure but then i don't know the outcome , she never posted back

The other thread i followed was treating with Methalyne Green for 2 wks , then followed General cure for 2 wks and did salt deaps now is just observation so again- no outcome yet. Her bettas stopped having symptoms , only one actually still have inflamed gills. But that one was more sick then others. I guess they all have different recoveries. That is why i think it is good idea do not put your sick boy in the main tank . Sorry if i told you otherwise before

To answer on your question , if you will order that Quickcure i would start with that first. But continue with General Cure now. I was trying to google to that med's taht you posted a picture of the right one , i think it is. I was trying to see the ingredients. I think it is
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aquarium-...bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

What med will treat flukes and bacterial? I have read that with parasites a bacterial infection usually occurs as well.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes you are right , we don't know what he has. And i think more important to treat the flukes first since it fatal. I know that General cure can be mixed with Kanaplex. So we can mix both. Kanaplex is a good antibiotic that treats a wide range of bacterial infections and act internally as well as externally.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

ANHEL123 said:


> Yes you are right , we don't know what he has. And i think more important to treat the flukes first since it fatal. I know that General cure can be mixed with Kanaplex. So we can mix both. Kanaplex is a good antibiotic that treats a wide range of bacterial infections and act internally as well as externally.


She will need a lot of help with the dosing part I'm sure, what size is the hospital tank? And these meds do require some type of aeration. Has anyone gone over this with her? A small length of tubing along with a cheap small air pump my be needed if there is no filter system. A cheap 2 gallon would be really good for putting him in to treat, and will make it easier for her to measure out the meds.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Here's the skinny on the QT. Right now I've got him in one of the cups they come in. He's floating in the tank with the other boys. I change his water every evening when I get home from work. The options that I have available for possible QT are...

- Buy a Kritter Keeper and float it in the big tank if I can make it fit. Another option is to float it in my husband's tank with his violet goby. Only issue there is the tank temp is slightly lower at 78-80 instead of 80-82.
- Use the same Kritter Keeper and try to heat it with a 50w non-adjustable heater without boiling the fish (how the heck do people heat 1-2 gallon tanks reliably???)
- Continue using the cup

I also do have some line and an air pump to use if it's needed.

I have a couple of questions. Sorry if I seem to be repeating myself, but I really don't want to do things wrong and end up overdosing the fish or using the wrong medications together.

- Should I use the QuickCure at all when I get it or should I continue to treat with the General Cure and add Kanaplex to the mix? 
- Is the 80-82 temp okay or does it need to be raised/lowered?
- Should I do any treatment on the big tank as a precaution without seeing any symptoms in the other fish?

I'll try to get more pictures of him this evening. It's hard getting a look at him because it's like he's trying to hide that side.

I want to thank both of you for helping me. It's so tough to see these little guys suffer. Thanks to the two of you, he is getting a chance.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

I have a 2 gallon and a marina betta heater from petsmart should work, it is supposed to heat 1/2-1 1/2 gallon tanks (mine heats the 2 gallon great). I would go with as big of a kritter keeper as you can find, or petsmart has a 2 1/2 gallon basic tank for around 14-15 dollars. I'm sure you will be able to reuse it in the future. I have never used the quick cure or kanaplex, so the other helpful member can assist you or I would ask the pet store about the meds and the issues you are having.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

You're so welcome, and I hope he gets better. I feel so bad that he is suffering while we are trying to develop a plan of attack. For sure though, I just feel he has infection (and I'm not saying he dose not have flukes also) . So a med that will take care of both fluke and infection would be the most beneficial.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

He actually looks a little better today. the interior of the gill and the edges actually looked more red yesterday. The spot I thought I saw yesterday on his other side also looks to be faded. He does seem more listless and he only ate one pellet. Yesterday he ate six (I'm feeding him New Life Spectrum). There's also some stringy white stuff coming off him. 

I guess my question is, should I start with Kanaplex just in case it's bacterial or should I wait and see if he improves on the General Cure and QuickCure? 

None of the other fish are showing symptoms, thankfully.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Be very careful not to share his water with the water in the main tank. Cover the cup with a lid, i am afraid you can spill the water.. . I would afraid to put him in any tank.
While you don't have quick cure treat him with General Cure which helps with flukes and with Kanaplex for the infection. Two of those can be mixed. Lets see if GC and Kanaplex is helping. If it is then you can use it longer . Meanwhile order Quick Cure.

Where do you see that stringy white stuff? Is it on his body , fins or gills?


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Does he have ich also? Why are you using quick cure along with the general cure?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I got a kritter keeper so I'll put him in that tomorrow. Also got the Quick Cure. Should I go ahead and start using it? Or just General Cure and Kanaplex? I wish there was one medication that would cover the whole lot. 

The white stringy stuff looked like it was coming from his head area but I don't know if it came from his gills.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

He doesn't have ich. I'm not using the Quick Cure yet, but it was suggested to get it so I did.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Melodica said:


> He doesn't have ich. I'm not using the Quick Cure yet, but it was suggested to get it so I did.


Oh, well you will probably need it at some point in the future if not now. I have some ich meds on hand if I ever need it, it's good to keep several different types of meds just in case.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

And as ANHEL123 mentioned, try the general cure and kanaplex for now and see if he improves over the next few days. Glad you were able to find the Kritter Keeper.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

it is very difficult to make the decision what to use first. I am following a thread with the same problem. And that person actually treated with Methaline green (which is in quick cure) for 2 wks and than with GC 2 wks and salt dips. So far there is observation because the treatments just were done, so i don't know outcome, but they stopped having symptoms. So i would make the decision base on that thread experience . 
So since you do have quick cure i think go ahead and start it. But do full water change first. Do it slowly so you don't shock him with all that drastic change . Do a few 50% just clean water to get rid of GC . Than dose quick cure .Mix it first in the separate cup and add it slowly so he can use to it. 
What are the ingredients on that quick cure bottle? Is it methaline green and formalin? How long the instructions tell you to treat ?
That white something from his head can be mucus secretion , it can be from parasites also.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Those are the ingredients. They say use a drop a gallon for 2-4 days, I believe. 

There's a white spot on his back fin. You can see it in this pic. He doesn't look any better or worse aside from that.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do it for 2 wks do not stop. Give us an update. Is he still eating? Are all others doing good?
See the active ingredients on the bottle is it Methyline green and formalin?
Is that white spot funny cottony like looking?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

He only ate one pellet yesterday, so his appetite has gotten poor. 

The other fish appear to be doing fine. One still isn't eating, but I think he's just picky. He swims around and reacts as normal.

The ingredients in the Quick Cure are meth green and formalin. I'll begin dosing with that this evening when I get in assuming he's made it through the day.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

The white spot looks kinda fuzzy and cottony


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

How is he doing tonight? And what meds have you decided to treat him with?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

He's still hanging in. Looks like his gills are a bit better, but he's got a lot of the white, stringy/cottony stuff coming off him. He mainly hangs around the top of the kritter keeper or lays on the bottom.

Honestly, I don't know which ones to treat him with since I'm not sure what he has. The Quick Cure was recommended, so I started with that.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Could be fungus, I've seen a few with this at Walmart. So his gills look better? And do they continue to look better?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

The one side looks fine. The other side (that's open) isn't as red anymore, but it's more kinda greyish and has white stuff in/around it.

Are there any medications that I can use with the Quick Cure that could help?


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

How long have you been treating with the quick cure? And does he still have an appetite?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Just started Quick Cure today. He isn't eating. Yesterday he ate a pellet. The two days prior to that he ate six each, so his appetite has gone away completely.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Ok, I still think he is fighting a bacterial infection (My opinion), do you have any meds for bacterial at all? He is not eating and this is very serious.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I have... 

Kanaplex
Maracyn 1 and 2
General Cure 
Fungus Cure 
Triple Sulfa 
Methylene Blue
Coppersafe 
Quick Cure

Also have Fish Cillin on the way. 

I just have no clue which medication to use.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Is the fungus cure by tetra?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

API, like the General Cure and Triple Sulfa.

His gill area doesn't look any worse today. Might look a bit better. Still white stuff coming off him, but I added some extra Stress Coat to his water, so I guess it could be slime coat. He's still lethargic though.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Unfortunately he passed away sometime in the night. At least he isn't suffering anymore. Thanks for the help, both of you.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear he didn't make it. I was so hoping that he would recover. And how are the rest doing?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

They still seem to be fine. No spots or bloating or anything that would indicate an issue. They are active enough and eating (except the picky one).

I hope this was localized to just this fish. Don't know if I can take losing the other four too.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry i am late here. We left for a weekend. So sorry he passed. I hope other will continue doing good. Hopefully he was the one who is sick. Keep us updated please. Sorry couldn't help you. So difficult to pinpoint what exactly is the problem. I also didn't expect him to die


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I know it's difficult to diagnose fish, so no need to apologize. Sometimes they just can't be saved. At least he isn't suffering anymore.

Thanks again for all your help and advice. I'll keep you updated on the other four. St the moment they all seem to be fine. Hopefully that continues! Thanks again


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope so. I don't think he suffered to much. He ate almost to the last day, he would not eat if he would feel any pain. I research a lot and found out they don't feel pain like we do. They lack of nervous system that can interpret that sensation to their brain.


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