# My fish are acting weird!!!



## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

I want to start off by telling you what exactly I have so I don't get the random questions later. I have a 20 gallon tank with 15 fish total. I have 5 zebra danio, 5 glow light tetras, 3 black tetras, and 2 otto catfish. They have a proper filter for a 20 gallon tank and a hood light that cam with the tank. I have a heater that keeps their tank at about 78 degrees F.

every week I test their water and then I add water to their tank instead of doing a 10% or 20% water change. I just add what has evaporated out of the tank that week. I add in anything to correct ph balances or ammonia (which I normally don't have a problem with) and so forth. And I've never had a problem with nitrites or nitrates. But I noticed the water was getting foggy so I decided to take them all out and do a 50% water change. I took them all out because I don't have a bucket to fill this tank up so it takes me forever with this half gallon cup thing. So I just add the water then the conditioner and so forth. Once the tank was back up and running and to temp I added the fish back in. They did fine but when I woke up this morning they were all gathered to one side of the tank and at the top. They literally are touching the top of the water. ANd they swim almost like their nose is in the air if that make since. And this applies to all my fish except my otto catfish. The fish will swim down and do stuff but will almost immediately swim back to the top. I'm not sure what is going on. I was wondering if anyone else may know what is going on and what I can do about it because it is really really weird!!!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Have you actually tested your ammonia/nitrites/nitrates? What did you mean by adding in chemicals to 'correct' the pH/ammonia levels? In a cycled tank you shouldn't be getting any ammonia readings. Also, altering your pH chemically can cause all sorts of problems if you don't have an understanding of the processes behind it. 

Fish skimming along the top like that suggests an issue with water quality or low oxygen levels. 

You really should be doing water changes rather than just topping up evaporated water. Certain chemicals/hormones can build up over time and the only way these are removed are through water changes.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

+1 with littlebettafish. What kind of filter do you have, is it circulating the water well enough? When you did the water change did you actually vacuum the gunk out of the substrate? How old is the tank?


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Have you actually tested your ammonia/nitrites/nitrates? What did you mean by adding in chemicals to 'correct' the pH/ammonia levels? In a cycled tank you shouldn't be getting any ammonia readings. Also, altering your pH chemically can cause all sorts of problems if you don't have an understanding of the processes behind it.
> 
> Fish skimming along the top like that suggests an issue with water quality or low oxygen levels.
> 
> You really should be doing water changes rather than just topping up evaporated water. Certain chemicals/hormones can build up over time and the only way these are removed are through water changes.


I always test my water before I add water or do a water change so I know if their is a problem and what to do if there is a problem. But I've only had a problem with pH. Which I've added the stuff to correct it. And it seems to be doing fine.

My tank was cycled without fish. I have had fish for about a month now. and like I said I haven't really had a problem. This is a first. The oxygen makes since. Because my filter doesn't make much of a ruffle or anything so I plugged back in the air stone. Within the matter of 30 minutes all my fish are swimming around the bottom of the tank... not sure if that is good either. :/

But I just tested my water. My pH is great it is at 6.8 my nitrite is 0.25 my nitrate is between 0 and 5 but for some reason now my ammonia is through the roof. and I mean it is the darkest color it can get. So not good. I do have ammonia lock because I used to own a gold fish and I used it regularly with them but I didn't test my water back then. So can I just toss that in? any advice on that?! Because my tank was cycled! Oh I'm so over whelmed! 

I'm not sure how old my tank is. I got it from a friend but I'd say it is probably no more than 2 years old. And I am pretty sure he got it new. And yes I vacuumed the bottom. 

Thanks for the help so far!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Don't use ammonia lock or any other related products to remove the ammonia. If your ammonia is that high, do water changes to bring it back down. You want that ammonia completely gone from your tank water, not bound up or temporarily detoxified. 

A a pH of under 7, ammonia becomes much less toxic. However, don't think this means it is harmless. All it takes is a spike in your pH (which can happen when using chemicals to adjust the PH) and your fish could be at serious risk. 

0.25ppm of nitrites suggests there is a problem with your cycle. How did you cycle your tank without fish? Were you adding a source of ammonia over the course of several weeks, or simply leaving the filter to run in an empty tank? 

Also, what is your pH without any adjustments? I see you are getting a reading of 6.8 in tank, but what about the pH of your source water? Most commonly traded fish in this hobby can handle a less than ideal pH. What is important is that it remains stable. Constantly adjusting can cause flucuations that can put your fish under stress.


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

If ammonia is high and nitrite is present then your tank has not achieved a stable cycle, probaly because of acidic conditions( low pH).
Just going off of what is written here so I could definitely be wrong.
If this was my tank.I would start with a 50-75% water change then change 25% water per day everyday till readings stabilize ( 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite, 0-40 nitrate.
Fish gasping at the surface usualy indicates trouble breathing due to low oxygen, gill damage from parasites or high nitrate, ammonia or nitrite poisoning, or water temperature too high. Given what you said about your situation I would say ammonia or nitrite poisoning is why your fish are behaving strangely.
You say your tank was cycled without fish, so maybe you just need a little more time for your bacteria colonies to grow .
Good luck!


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Don't use ammonia lock or any other related products to remove the ammonia. If your ammonia is that high, do water changes to bring it back down. You want that ammonia completely gone from your tank water, not bound up or temporarily detoxified.
> 
> A a pH of under 7, ammonia becomes much less toxic. However, don't think this means it is harmless. All it takes is a spike in your pH (which can happen when using chemicals to adjust the PH) and your fish could be at serious risk.
> 
> ...


So I did not add any ammonia to my empty tank. I didn't realize you should or shouldn't. I have never tested my tap water that I use for my tank. But I just did. My pH is 6.8 my ammonia is at 0. My Nitrite is 0. But my Nitrate is between the 5 and 10 on my chart! That can't be good!



rsskylight04 said:


> If ammonia is high and nitrite is present then your tank has not achieved a stable cycle, probaly because of acidic conditions( low pH).
> Just going off of what is written here so I could definitely be wrong.
> If this was my tank.I would start with a 50-75% water change then change 25% water per day everyday till readings stabilize ( 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite, 0-40 nitrate.
> Fish gasping at the surface usualy indicates trouble breathing due to low oxygen, gill damage from parasites or high nitrate, ammonia or nitrite poisoning, or water temperature too high. Given what you said about your situation I would say ammonia or nitrite poisoning is why your fish are behaving strangely.
> ...


This sounds like a great start to solving this horrible problem. Thank you for your advice and I'll let you know in a couple of days if it is working out in our favor!!!  Thank you a ton!!!


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Yes you must add ammonia to the tank when you cycle without fish. You can use cleaning ammonia, or fish food, shrimp.... Now that you HAvE fish In, All you need to do is feed them to create a continuous supply of amMonia. You wilL hAvE to change water a couple times per week to avoid toxic conditions. Sorry to say but the time you spent cycling the empty tank is wasted. I always recommend fishless cycle, which you were trying to do. NO worries though, you can proceed with fish in cycling, the results are the same. Fish in cycling is harder in my opinion because you have to protect the fish by keeping ammonia and nitrite low with water changes. With fishless cycling you can let ammonia spike and develop a large colony of primary bacteriA quIckly. 
IF you are not familiar with fish in cycling there are many people on This forum that can help. I will follow this.thread so if you post any quesTionS here I will try to respoNd quickly.
Good luck!


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

rsskylight04 I didn't realize but now I know but it is a little too late. So if I just keep doing the water changes it will eventually set itself? It just takes longer. So by longer how long does that mean? I feel dumb as a rock about now. lol But good news is I haven't lost any fish so far! I do have a few still doing the nose in the air or the water skimming or whatever it is called. But for the most part my fish are fine other than they are showing signs of the ammonia being to high in the tank. Hopefully I get this fixed enough to not kill them! Thanks again.


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

TheSailorette said:


> rsskylight04 I didn't realize but now I know but it is a little too late. So if I just keep doing the water changes it will eventually set itself? It just takes longer. So by longer how long does that mean? I feel dumb as a rock about now. lol But good news is I haven't lost any fish so far! I do have a few still doing the nose in the air or the water skimming or whatever it is called. But for the most part my fish are fine other than they are showing signs of the ammonia being to high in the tank. Hopefully I get this fixed enough to not kill them! Thanks again.


No need to feel dumb, its NOT common sense- no one would just assume this stuff!
yes keep up on water changes, but you do want to have some ammonia to keep the cycle going. i would think that by now your cycle is already started and a good way along. Test for ammonia and if its over 1.0 do a 25-50% water change, wait an hour then test again. if its still over 1.0 do another 25-50% change. Repeat as needed to get the levels down. if your ammonia and nitrite are below 1.0 and fish are still gasping at the surface that would indicate a different cause. 
time to cycle varies depending on many things such as pH, water hardness, ammonia level, temperature... Ive taken as long as 6 weeks to achieve a stable cycle, but usualy more like 2-3 weeks total. 

I am very happy for you that you haven't lost any fish, i hate dead fish- no fun at all. usualy the surface gasping is quickly followed by mass extinction and its a very good thing that you sought help to correct the situation immediately. Now you KNOW and knowing is more than half the battle!

Im a big believer in water changes as a first response to aquarium problems, so please perform daily changes till all your fish are behaving normally and your test readings are within acceptable range.
water changes will NOT hurt your fish or fishtank. you could do 100% water change every day and the fish would be fine as long as the water is dechlorinated and up to temp. 

This is all just my theory and practice- others may know more than me or have other methods that might work better. I encourage you to seek other sources and find a solution that works for you that you can believe in and practice with confidence.
Do not hesitate to ask questions- i will continue to follow this thread.
Good luck!


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

rsskylight04 said:


> No need to feel dumb, its NOT common sense- no one would just assume this stuff!
> yes keep up on water changes, but you do want to have some ammonia to keep the cycle going. i would think that by now your cycle is already started and a good way along. Test for ammonia and if its over 1.0 do a 25-50% water change, wait an hour then test again. if its still over 1.0 do another 25-50% change. Repeat as needed to get the levels down. if your ammonia and nitrite are below 1.0 and fish are still gasping at the surface that would indicate a different cause.
> time to cycle varies depending on many things such as pH, water hardness, ammonia level, temperature... Ive taken as long as 6 weeks to achieve a stable cycle, but usualy more like 2-3 weeks total.
> 
> ...


Ok so my water has been changed at least 3 times today at 50% each time. It got better at the first change. But I've hit like a point where it doesn't seem to get any better. My ammonia level is sitting at 4 where it was at 8 which is better than what it was but not where it needs to be. So tomorrow I'll be back at it.

The friend I got this tank from gave me the set up for it which he gave me filter cartages for it. But I put in the normal cartages because I have tropical fish. He had a rather large goldfish so he had some special cartages. anyway I talked to him he told to me to throw in those cartages because they basically absorb ammonia. It says it has zeolite with ceramitek whatever that is. :/ So I figure it can't hurt since I can't get it to go away. Maybe it will help out with the water changes. then I'll go back to the normal cartages when it gets stabilized.

On the plus side my fish are acting much better except my little ones. My poor glow light tetras still seem to be bothered by the ammonia but the rest seem to feel relieved! But so far this is my start of trying to fix this. Tell me if I've taken some crazy step in the wrong direction. I'm going to go hard at it tomorrow because I don't have to work tomorrow and with that comes with the chance to actually work more with this tank! Thanks again for the advice and stuff so far. I greatly appreciate the help!


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Ammonia at 4.0 is still very high, but if your fish are doing better that's the important thing. Larger water changes will not hurt and might get your ammonia down faster.
Thanks for really caring about your fish!


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

Ok so my Ammonia is 1.0 finally. It took a lot today. So I am concerned about my bottom feeders. Because I'm kinda worried I may have this tank cleaned. I changed the water twice more today. 50% both times. So should I throw them in with me betta since his tank isn't as sterile as this tank feels. I'm just scared I'm going to starve him. So what could be the reasons this ammonia happened so maybe I can prevent it from happening again? I know over feeding but what else could cause this? 

I'm going to keep an eye on my ammonia levels until I know it is for sure settled at 1 or below. Because I don't wanna have to go through such extremes again!


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Ammonia will build up in any tank that does not have a healthy population of nitrifying bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria grows best at very high ph, around 8.8. Your low ph may have stalled the growth of these benificial bacteria.

Oh and don't starve your bottom feeders, its fine to feed as usual as long as you monitor water quality.


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

So how do I grow nitrifying bacteria with my pH being around 6.8 and 7.0?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

As far as I know it's entirely possible to grow a biological filter at a pH around neutral.


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## rsskylight04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Usualy its only a problem if ph is very low. Just reread your thread and you are 6.8-7.0 should be ok. So sorry , I was thinking of a different thread, But if ammonia is stuck at 4 to 8 without massive water changes that's a problem. I think you might just need time to grow more bacteria. Keep an eye on ammonia levels and change as much water as necessary to keep it at or under 1.0


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## TheSailorette (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks again. I'll post again if anything gets weird or changes for the worse or I have a question! I appreciate the advice and help!


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