# Super Red HMPK Spawn( Yes Another Log )



## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I have been having too much difficulty with breeding my HM dragons from DarkMoon17. They have been tail biting a lot and I really don't know what to do about that. I added aquarium salt and some IAL in the tank, but see no improvement. The caudals are so badly bitten up on all three males. It is sad and I feel so guilty because I don't know what to do with them and would like to see them happy again. They rarely flare also. If anyone has any information on this, please send me a PM or VM soon.

In better news, I now have fry. They are a day old and hatched 2/29/12. I thought I wasnt going to make a log, but that didn't work out too well since I wanted to continue showing plenty pictures. The pair spawned on 2/27/12 starting at 8:00 pm eastern time and ending at 9:36pm eastern time. It took the female 5 days to finally follow the male to the nest.

*Currently: 3/1/12*
The fry are now 2 days old and I have just made a guess at 25-30 fry with just seeing tails and no counting. The male is still tending to them and the nest. I must say that this is the calmest spawn I have ever seen. The male has little to no real work to be done. These fry seem t be very strong and have the power to get themselves back up to the nest from midway down.

So the dad is not going to be very tired after his responsibility.

Here is some pictures of the pair.
http://http://s1000.photobucket.com...t=SupeRedHMPKSpawn034.jpg&mediafilter=noflash

http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn032.jpg

Female Also gathering the eggs.
http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn031.jpg

Heh. My favorite of them all. The male got a little carried away and tried to force too fast and was stuck like this for a bit:
http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn030.jpg
Ahh the joys of breeding!

http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn029.jpg

Still adding eggs in the nest.
http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn028.jpg
In this picture, unfortunately you can see the "spoon head deformity." I am happy that it isn't something too bad. It isn't something that can kill them either or have them miserable for their life.

And a really cool video of the spawn.

http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums.../?action=view&current=SupeRedHMPKSpawn026.mp4

As many already know, I am very excited about this spawn and can't wait to see them at a month or two.

Any questions, comments, or interests are welcome. Please feel free to add anything you like (that's appropriate of course)!


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

oh my goodness congrats on the spawn BL2033 :-D what a gorgeous pair, the two females that i ever spawned both helped the male put the eggs in the nest  just one male ate the eggs >-< (that was a long time ago, strawberry and rose)


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Congratulations on your new spawn.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

WOAH. Save a pair for me! I love super red HMPKs. My all time favorite.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Everyone: Thank you for the positive feedback! I enjoy to read your suggestions and opinions ect.

@MrVampire181: Will Do!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Update 8:00PM 3/1/12:*
They are not free swimming yet, but they should be at this time tomorrow(8:14-9:00pm eastern time)

The male is still tending to the nest and doing an amazing job as well. I rarely see wrigglers. They are just stiff little tails sticking out of the nest and I dont see any beady little eyes yet LOL. I have only seen two fall out of the nest and one has managed to get himself back up from midway of the 5 inches in tank water so far. So as I have said before, They are REALLY strong fry and I think they are going to be amazing! It will be interesting to see some nice light ones as well.

I really hope to see them with very fat stomach's by Tuesday since I always start feeding in exactly one week. By this time they are very carnivorous and their instinct to eat is already present.

I also dont want to bore you guys.

So what I did was I wanted to post more pictures. These are pictures of the pair when I first opened the bag, then the fry. I am going to show the fry pictures with a circle around so it is easier to spot.

So here is the pair just opening the bag.
Male Obviously-









Female-








*(She was the hardest to get pictures of!)*










The male wasn't too fond of the camera either so I only got one of the male.

BUT...I did manage to get a really nice video of the pair with my camera. The female is in the mason jar and the male was ALREADY trying to get her under the IAL while she was in the jar and that was when I first let them see each other after conditioning.I will post the video once it uploads to Photobucket as well as the pictures of the fry.

I am very excited about this spawn and cant wait to see results, but really want to make sure that they are perfect size.

Again, I didnt want to bore you guys too much since there isnt many exciting things happening yet.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I dont think I need to put a ring around the fry since I double checked the photos and they are pretty easy and clear to see.

First is the video of the pair when they were first released to each other:
http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums... Spawn/?action=view&current=jaysbettas015.mp4

I also went pretty far back to show their size. They are very big fish! The female alone is larger than my Male hmpk Dragon. I was thinking half giants, but not sure.

And the fry pictures! So cute!



























In the second picture the fry are exactly where there looks to be a gap of bubbles. I am definitely thinking of posting the first fry picture into the contest.

Also the last picture the fry are just above his caudal. Right in the middle.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

I'll b following this to.
Can't wait to see how your frys turn out


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Wow this is a nice pair. I'd be spawning them like once a month lol. Can't wait to see how they turn out.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Pfff...that's not my plan at all! *Looks around Cautiously*.

No but seriously, that might just be my plan. Though I might try my other few pairs I have. And am getting soon.


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Oh yay!!! You made a log!  Look at those sweet little things <3 Totally wish i could buy a pair off you when they're old enough. I've reaaaally come to like HMPKs! Thank you Skyline <3 lmao


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

BeautifulBetta said:


> Oh yay!!! You made a log!  Look at those sweet little things <3 Totally wish i could buy a pair off you when they're old enough.* I've reaaaally come to like HMPKs*! Thank you Skyline <3 lmao


As have I! I think that to me HMPKs have really shown their real sides. I still can't say that CT isn't my favorite tail type, but for real show quality fish I have to say that HMPKs are my favorite.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will update in a few minutes with some pictures and such. I will try to get pictures with each update I post to keep you guys interested. Some interesting things with this spawn!!


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

Gorgeous pair! I love me some nice reds! Can't wait to see the babies!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Hmpk
Have two stander
The straight edge and round


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> Hmpk
> Have two stander
> The straight edge and round


Rounded plakats are Trad. Pks. Different from HMPK.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

MrVampire181 said:


> Rounded plakats are Trad. Pks. Different from HMPK.


Oh that nice to know.
So even a 8+ ray with an 180 spread with an round edge are know as tradition Pk


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> Oh that nice to know.
> So even a 8+ ray with an 180 spread with an round edge are know as tradition Pk


Depends. Traditional plakat has longer ventral fins and a longer body. Rays and fin spread don't really matter. Ideally a traditional PK has 180 degree spread with round edges, longer body, longer ventral fins. Most of the time they have two rays but I've seen up to 8 before.

These are traditional PKs:

http://ebetta.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/giant-plakat-betta-fish.jpg

http://www.quakerbettas.com/images/Fish jpg/PlakatJimSonnier.jpg

http://nippyfish.net/icecream/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/1571922216_62f6d28a29_z.jpg

HMPKs:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ray-br...M0008 Platinum White Halfmoon Plakat Male.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_W2W1wWnpf...Hg/prPNOMjhbeo/s1600/salamander+for+sale2.JPG

http://media.photobucket.com/image/halfmoon plakats/korwhord/Halfmoon%20Plakats/2-2011/IMG_6878.jpg


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Look closely to the hmpk pix that u show.
The first two are straight n the last one is round.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Idk how ibc class the hmpk
But theyre three different type To me
Round and straight edge with long anal fin
The one that cross into the Dt line(not as pretty as the first two)
All even around with a clean edging With a flat short anal fin


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Update*

*Update 3/4/12*
The fry are now 6 days old and all but two are free swimming. They are pretty hard to catch on camera at these first few weeks as any breeder with an average quality camera knows the annoyance of trying to get them.

I did manage to get a video of one of the fry. Very tiny white speck will swim upward away from the camera:
http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/bettalover2033/?action=view&current=jaysbettas001.mp4

I might be updating every week with more interesting updates until they get bigger for the camera and I can actually find them.

Well something really interesting happened while the male was putting them back into the nest the other day. *(He is still in the nest) Will explain later*... So I noticed the male was picking them up and spitting them into the nest and then when I looked closer I saw him flaring. At first I thought he was fixing his beard because he had a mouth full of the fry, but no...he was FLARING at the fry. Probably the weirdest thing I have ever seen when breeding. He is the first male to ever flare at the fry. I think it was because they kept falling. Everytime they would fall out again after he puts them in the nest, he literally watches them and when they start to fall again he flares.:roll:

It was the most interesting thing I have ever seen with fry this age still leaving the father with them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On another update:

I have decided to try the Father with Fry method. Many reports have results of very healthy fry, being able to leave the fry in with the siblings longer because of the "alpha" fish being in there, there is no need to fight for territory; less chance of egg eaters, and many with less aggression with the siblings. Some success stories say that they can have them with each other for a bit longer than 2.5 months.

I have wanted to try this for a while. Any suggestions? or Opinions?


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

I actually heard this was a good method as well! I think Victoria from www.bettysplendens.com wrote an article on it. Was very tempted to try it myself! Managed to keep GoldenEye in with his fry for about 4 days after they started free-swimming. By then he still wouldnt eat and I didnt want him to die so I took him out lol. Would love to try that though!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes, that is the exact article that I re-read today.

In fact, the only reason I made my choice to try this method was because I was too lazy to take the male out 3 days ago. Then I thought that I would like to try this method anyway since I have been wanting to do so for so long.

About your male not eating, I think this has to do with age because one time I left my male in the tank with the fry for 4-5 days because I forgot to take him out and he didn't eat either...he was 9-10 months old then later down the spawns, I had a 4.5 month old male that ate a lot when he was in the tank. They say not to feed them while in the tank, but I do anyway. I don't feed my males while they are spawning or are chasing the female, only when they are usually working on the bubble nest and flaring at the female in the glass.

As for my male currently......He eats like a beast. Wow that is definitely the name used as "cool" out here, but I was meaning more of the monster kind of beast.

I just fed him and he ate 6 pellets, and 3-5 freeze dried bloodworms. *WITH NO BLOATING WHATSOEVER*


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

when your male moves his ventral fins rapidly but not swimming anywhere - he is most likely calling his bunch of fry to feed them. Sometimes they suck up fry in the process, sometimes they don't. Just don't get worried and think that he's eating fry. Keep a close eye on him, he will eventually spit out fry that entered his mouth. ...... This perhaps is why fry will gather if you move/vibrate a small stick in the water.

These kind of males are rare (IME). Most will just leave fry to fend for themselves. But these great daddies do exist and will feed fry even when they're 5mm. I agree, age effects the male's behavior. Older males tend to be better daddies (not all).


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I left my male in once to see if it would work for me. I took him out when I caught him eating his fry, not just culling deformed fry. I watched for quite awhile and he never put them in the nest. 
I know it works for some, and I hope you have the best of luck with yours.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Thank you so much for the information indjo.

I have noticed him making small ripples in the tank and the fry would turn toward him, but I have yet to see if they gather. This male is so different from the rest of the spawns that Ive had and he seems to be an amazing father.

I won't get worried. Even if his belly is enlarged. It is an experiment and I don't really care much for a gigantic spawn either.

I am really interested in seeing if the fry do gather when vibrating the stick. Is this something the father does in the wild as well? IMO, I would think that leaving the father with the fry is fine because he does most of the culling and really helps the stronger and healthier fry to survive. Though surprisingly, he is STILL adding to his bubble nest and gathering the late hatchers to help them into the nest after gathering the free swimmers and releasing them again. As soon as they are released from his mouth again they all just zoom out and spread all over into the plants.

Anyway, IMO/E younger males tend to be the egg eaters the most, but I have also found that younger males tend to make a larger nest and usually it is thicker as the older male's nests usually wider and about two layers or so.

I'm really mostly am trying this for experimental reasons as I said before. My male actually doesn't just leave the fry to fend for themselves. I almost forgot how small they really are.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

How many do you have? When I had super reds they were very good dads. Could be a genetic thing?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

So far I have counted up to 27 and that isn't including the ones that hide in the water sprite...

I'm looking to get a bunch of java moss, but when Ive got some money, there is never any available. We all know how that works. I already have enough water sprite and a bunch of them are growing like crazy, but I hear java moss grows even faster.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I don't see how plants help them grow. Just big water changes and lots of food.


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

I think he meant java moss grows faster than water sprite


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> I don't see how plants help them grow. Just big water changes and lots of food.


LOL no. I was meaning the have moss grows faster and fuller than other AQ. Plants.



BeautifulBetta said:


> I think he meant java moss grows faster than water sprite


haha, thank you BB!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Update 3/6/12:

The fry are now one week old today.

Here is a very blurry video in the tank. You can see the fry swim upward.

http://s1000.photobucket.com/albums...current=jaysbettas001.mp4&mediafilter=noflash


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

And that children is why I need to be taken away from the computer when I'm running on no sleep LOL.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Double post. Stupid android....


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

LOL @ MrV!

BL, that video is tooooo cute!! It feels so long ago that my fry were that tiny and innocent. Now they're big turds  Lmao


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> And that children is why I need to be taken away from the computer when I'm running on no sleep LOL.


Heh, it's not a problem...I DEFINITELY know how you feel. For me anytime past 1am is either dangerous or delusional. LOL



BeautifulBetta said:


> LOL @ MrV!
> 
> BL, that video is tooooo cute!! It feels so long ago that my fry were that tiny and innocent. Now they're big turds  Lmao


It isn't much. Just 7 seconds if a fry really determined to reach the top in time. I wish I could see them all enough to get a video of all if them.

I wonder how they feel after such a thrust.i would guess that they are exhausted after that's one push to get placesbecause truly they move like a snail when they are just gliding across the top.

I don't know why that just came to mind...:roll:


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Hahaha the way you said that reminds me of when the females are coming towards the male and his nest. When they do little bursts of speed and come to a complete stop really quick. Makes me laugh everytime!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

BeautifulBetta said:


> Hahaha the way you said that reminds me of when the females are coming towards the male and his nest. When they do little bursts of speed and come to a complete stop really quick. Makes me laugh everytime!


I know exactly what your talking about...and then her dorsal fin goes and looks like a twitch...

You know, I put that video on here Half sleep. I fell asleep at 1:00 am and then woke up again at 3:00 am and then submitted it.

I honestly don't know how I do it, but it managed to get up there and looks fine to me.


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Haha yeah!! And her ventrals go from right against her body, to straight down and still. too cute 

LOL sleep-uploading! Like a boss!  I sleep-comment on Facebook sometimes haha. Luckily I havent said anything bad yet


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

That is too funny.

I can update as soon as I get home...even though I said I Was going to update when they get 2-3-4-5-ect weeks old.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm too old for sleep uploading. LOL


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

congrats on the cute fries


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks!

***********************************************

The are now a week and two days old. The male seems to be an amazing father. He built a pretty large nest and is still adding bubbles to it. This is the first attempt at the father with fry method and I think its going very well. I cent wait to breed them again in a month or two.though my intentionsare to focus 100%on these guys


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Once they reach 3-4 weeks the attention they require goes down. Lol I just want to see more of these guys lol.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree. They are much more hardy AFTER they pass the 1st month mark.

Well ill see if I can get another video of blurred specks in the tank tomorrow afternoonor night haha.


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## Boikazi4o9 (Jan 24, 2012)

Can't believe I haven't seen your spawn yet! Love the color on the parent. Seem like you got alot of fry compare to me. Haha


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

ooo your doing the father with fry method?! :-D how it's going with that??
can't wait for more pics


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Boikazi4o9 said:


> Can't believe I haven't seen your spawn yet! Love the color on the parent. Seem like you got alot of fry compare to me. Haha


About how many do you have?



betta lover1507 said:


> ooo your doing the father with fry method?! :-D how it's going with that??
> can't wait for more pics


Yes I sure am. It's working very well. He is an amazing father.

I'll see if I can get a few more pictures of them tonight.


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## Boikazi4o9 (Jan 24, 2012)

I have only 5 frys.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

oh okay


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Boikazi4o9 said:


> I have only 5 frys.


Was this your first spawn? I'm guessing that you're going to be keeping the fry?


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## Boikazi4o9 (Jan 24, 2012)

This my second spawn. First one wasn't success haha. I'll mostly going give some to family and friends.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well it's an experience that you learn from.


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