# Red, Black, & White HM Dragon Pair



## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Just the other day I purchased these two betta from Aquabid. Now, i've never bought any fish off of Aquabid before, I have bought plants and IAL though, so I hope that the fishies arrive safe and sound. I've already got a flat 5 gallon plastic, lockable, container outside with java moss and java fern as well as some IAL extract. So, I'd really like some input from the other members here since I'm really nervous about this spawn. I've never tried the shallow water method before @[email protected]

Temp: 65-80 degrees over the course of one night and day.
5-inch deep water
IAL extract, java fern, java moss
shady area

Condition: 2 weeks on frozen bloodworms, freeze-dried bloodworms, and frozen brine shrimp

Does all this sound good? What else should I change or do?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Photos Of Pair*

Female:









Male:


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Looks like a good pairing! Can't wait to see the result!

Jeff.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Aren't you going to plan on raising the fry. Microworms, BBS, banana worms. Minimum of 20 gallon tank, a heater, etc.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I have a 20 gallon ready to fill up once I see eggs in the nest. I also have 2 35 gallon tubs that are outside which I plan on using if I get a really big spawn.
For food I can get live bloodworms at my local Big Al's fish store when needed and I have multiple vials of brine shrimp eggs that I can use once the babies have hatched.
For what I know there are no stores near me that sell microworms (live) and I hadn't even heard of banana worms until recently so I doubt that the stores nearby would carry them.
I also have a heater, filter, thermometer, more IALs that I can get extract from and I have a tank full of just plants alone so I can take some of those plants and put them in the grow-out tank for the babies.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

ooh i was eyeing that male! Cant wait to see the babies, good luck!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

The female strikes me as a male.

Seems like everything is good to go. If the first pic is a girl then watch for rose tails down the line. Good luck


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I agree with MrV, that female is probably going to throw several rose tails. She's got extreme branching. Hope you're prepared to cull.

In my experience, baby brine shrimp are too big for a lot of newborn fry. They seem to have trouble fitting them into their mouths. Worms are the best way to go, because they're a step between infusoria and BBS. They also slowly sink to the bottom, where a lot of real young fry like to hang out the most. You can buy a starter culture from ebay for around $3, and it will last you until you stop sub-culturing them.


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't mean to burst any bubbles...but if I'm honest...that female...doesn't look...very...female...


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Anyone else thinking "she" has a gill plate?


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

My thoughts exactly, also the ventrals seem rather male...


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

Looks like a girl to me, my copper female had pretty big fins and the same sized flare. She also has a very female body shape(which mine didn't really have lol)


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

At least she has an obvious ovipositor, copper. lol.

Guess we'll find out when she gets shipped in!


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

KadenJames said:


> At least she has an obvious ovipositor, copper. lol.
> 
> Guess we'll find out when she gets shipped in!


XD She had been labeled as a male HM plakat but with a egg spot like that it was easy to convince them to give my the female price lol She went from $16 to $2, pretty awesome since the store never gets HM's and she was gorgeous


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments and advise ^_^

I thought the exact same thing about her being a male when I saw her photo but I've got my fingers crossed that she is truly a girl. XD

I'll let you all know her gender once she gets here.

Also, I'll look at ordering a culture of worms from ebay. Shouldn't be too hard to get some. ^_^


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## 3l1zabeth (Jun 28, 2012)

I would get a real female because your female is flaring in the picture and i dont want him to get hurt and neither to your other male. Im sorry.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I'll make sure it is a girl when I get it by checking to see if it has an egg spot and whether it gets breeding stripes or not.
Then, I'll make the call as to whether or not I'll buy another and this time make sure it's a girl.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

BettaLover101 said:


> I'll make sure it is a girl when I get it by checking to see if it has an egg spot and whether it gets breeding stripes or not.
> Then, I'll make the call as to whether or not I'll buy another and this time make sure it's a girl.


Not sure you will see breeding stripes on him/her through the dragon scales. I was sent a female that turned out to be a male, so it does happen.

I'm sure the breeder would make it up to you if that is his/her mistake.

Jeff.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Ya if it is a boy I'll contact the breeder and see what they can do. I mean, if it was a simple mistake then it's fine, I'll just find a proper girly for my boys XD

Good thinking on the dragon scales. I wasn't thinking of that at the time. @[email protected]


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## Fabian (Dec 16, 2011)

That "female" have a bit too long anal too.


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

Don't know and can't say if it is the case here... but I do know that many people selling fish on AB use "stock" photos... not photos of the actual fish you are purchasing. Although, even when "stock" photos are used, the fish you receive are pretty close to the photo used. So this may be a case of where a "stock" photo was used and the actual betta in the photo may be male but looks close enough to the female that they are selling to use.


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## ihatefirewalls (Jun 23, 2012)

She looks completely female to me. Her ventral side starts out round and slopes upward towards her tail, characteristic of females. The dorsal is also positioned far back towards her tail, again indicative of a female. Sure she is flaring in pic2, but certain females just do.

Her super long finnage and sharp coloration is just misleading. If you rotate that first picture and look at it in black and white and cover up some of her finnage, her female shape becomes a lot more obvious.










The flaring in picture 2 also covers up her female body shape. The bright white scales make her look flat like a male, but her actual greyish body extends lower (behind her gill flaps).


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm so excited!!!! I'm going to pick up these two from the transhipper tonight! ^_^ I can't wait to see them and get them into their tanks!! EEH!


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Sweet!!!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I've got my pair in their separate 2.5 gallon tanks side-by-side with a cork board in between XD

They look exactly the same and just as amazing as they do in the photos that were used on Aquabid.

Also, my female is most definitely a female because she has an egg spot!!! Woot!
When I first picked them up and glanced at her all I could think was "Oh no...." but then I checked in the car and just now and she is definitely a girl. ^_^ She really does look a lot like a male plakat though, it's crazy.

Anyways, I'll post pictures tomorrow of the two of them in their new homes if anybody would like to see and I'll keep you all updated! ^_^


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Well in that case... BREED.

Seriously, you guys in Canada need some more breeders lol.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

XD I plan on breeding them but I'm going on vacation in a week so I'll wait until a week or so after I get back and condition them to breed them. That way I won't be leaving the fry in my friends hands for a week.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

By the way, does anybody have any ideas for names for these two? :3


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Beautiful...how about Molly and Mel..good luck with your breeding !


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Since this is my first time actually importing a pair from Thailand I decided to see how long other people were waiting to breed them since they go through shipping.

I was reading and a few people were saying that they would breed their pairs as soon as they arrived or, at the latest, a day later.

So, I was wondering, why do breeders do this? Also, should I be doing this or just wait a week while I condition?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Depends on the shape of the bettas when you get them. Personally, I would wait at least two weeks to condition them first.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

BettaLover101 said:


> Since this is my first time actually importing a pair from Thailand I decided to see how long other people were waiting to breed them since they go through shipping.
> 
> I was reading and a few people were saying that they would breed their pairs as soon as they arrived or, at the latest, a day later.
> 
> So, I was wondering, why do breeders do this? Also, should I be doing this or just wait a week while I condition?



You need to fatten them up a bit first. Clean water + Well fed = ready to do their business! At least a couple days.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Alrighty, they are readily eating the live bloodworms that I have been giving them. ^_^ The male is so funny to watch because he repeated will spit out and try to eat one worm at a time and I guess he doesnt like that they wriggly around in his mouth.

I'll probably move the pair into the breeding tank on Friday around noon so long as they both look well fed and happy. I haven't seen any signs of stress on them since they arrived. They both come right up to the front of their tanks the second I approach. ^_^ So cute <3


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

BettaLover101 said:


> Alrighty, they are readily eating the live bloodworms that I have been giving them. ^_^ The male is so funny to watch because he repeated will spit out and try to eat one worm at a time and I guess he doesnt like that they wriggly around in his mouth.
> 
> I'll probably move the pair into the breeding tank on Friday around noon so long as they both look well fed and happy. I haven't seen any signs of stress on them since they arrived. They both come right up to the front of their tanks the second I approach. ^_^ So cute <3


Live bloodworms? or tubifex? I have heard some bad things about tubifex.

I have not seen live bloodworms.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Sorry my mistake. My mom had been telling me bloodworms so I thought nothing of it and didn't check the form. They are black worms, so no worries about tubifex. ^_^


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

There are also many warnings about black worms....

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=102884

They harvest them out of the sewer?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

These ones are brought in by one of the local betta breeders so I highly doubt they are from the sewers XD They are captive bred cultures and I've never had any problems with them before. ^_^


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

I usually wait about 2 weeks before I attempt to breed a new fish for a couple of reasons. Mainly, to allow them to "settle" in. But also to make sure they are not diseased or have anything that would prevent me from breeding them.

Good luck in breeding!! Be sure to post pics of the fry and juvies. They are beautiful fish... I'd be interested in a pair from yours. :BIGhappy:


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

My blackworms are bought at a local FS. They actually come from a blackworm farm here in California. I've never had any trouble feeding my fish blackworms, and they love them!


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

Personally, I think diversity and moderation are the keys. Too much of any one thing could lead to problems. My mature fish, juvies and fry all get a diversified diet of several different types of food. However, when I am pumping up a pair for breeding I tend to give more blood worms than anything else.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Ya in terms of feeding I've been giving them freeze-dried daphnia in the morning, live blackworms in the afternoon, and then freeze-dried bloodworms at night. So far neither of them are showing any signs of illness or stress so that's a good sign and they are readily eating anything I feed them.

Looking at my breeding tank now, as it has been outside for a couple weeks with no fish in it, mosquito larvae has hatched and they are swimming around in there so I'm debating whether or not to set up a new breeding tank tonight and then leaving it for a couple days to allow for the water to turn green. What do you all think I should do?


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

I would be reluctant to use that tank. Where I live dragon flies lay eggs in the same places as mosquitoes... which are deadly for bettas, so I've read. So, I wouldn't use it. But, conditions may be different where you are.

I also avoid all freeze dried foods. Air. I know you can soak them in water and such... but I personally just had really rather go with frozen foods and pellets. And I don't feed as often. But I know everyone has their own ways.

They are nice looking fish. And I am serious about obtaining offspring.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm sure your fish would love those live mosquito larva...


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Okay, I'll leave the tank alone then. ^_^ Thanks


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I mean to feed them to the adults, not the fry.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Okay well I'll get a jar with a lid, fish them out and put them in the jar and then feed them to this pair in the mornings. Does that sound good?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)




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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Alrighty, quick update.
I ended up dumping out the container and starting fresh. I added aquasafe to the water in the container and the jar for the female. I also added some of the green water from my 20 gallon bucket that my mollies are in into the spawning container and jar. Lastly, I added some IAL extract as well as one of the leaves to the container. So, all seems good so far.

I fed some of the mosquito larvae to my bettas and they went nuts over them. XD I think it's their new favourite food. My female is super duper fat with eggs now, she looks like she might explode even and my male is looking happy and chubby as well.

So around 5 I think I will put the female into her jar and the male into the container so that he can start flirting and building a nest. Then, hopefully by tomorrow afternoon, so long as every seems alright, I will release the female and cross my fingers. X_x I'm already nervous just thinking about it.

I'll post a few pictures later on today of the pair into their container. ^_^


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Photos!!!*


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I released the female at noon this morning. The male still hasn't bothered to build a bubble nest. For the most part they are just swimming around the container minding their own business. Did I do something wrong? Should I still leave them together for the next four days? Is there anything I can do to induce breeding?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I usually add a decoy male so that the other male gets territorial. Catch the female again they probably need more time to get lustful lol. You can also do a large water change or mist the water surface to stimulate rain. They might not be ready to spawn.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

So, I tried just spraying their container to simulate rain... and then it did rain, actually it poured. But, still nothing. They haven't spawned and are still uninterested so I guess I'll pull them out and recondition and then spawn again in a couple weeks if they look good.


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

Is the male even making a nest?


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## tanseattle (Jun 28, 2012)

very good discussion going on. I like male/female debate. I think that is a girl. My betta girl looks like boy too.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

He is making bits and pieces of nests all over the container, its really odd. Anyways, I've taken them out and put them back into their homes so that they can relax and become piggies again.


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## WetBetta (Jul 1, 2012)

I use a desert sized styrophoam plate cut in half for my males to make a nest under. They never fail to use it. It keeps all the bubbles together. It works very well.

Also, could the water be too clean? It's harder for the males to make bubble nests with completely fresh water. It needs the "glue"!!


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## Fabian (Dec 16, 2011)

use some IAL!!They are breeding triggers.


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