# Is my male to young?



## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I have been having problems with breeding my new male HM to my HM/CT female. The female is the one I want to breed, she is the last one left alive out of an old spawn due to a number of moves and many disease outbreaks. She is about a year old and never grew past 1.5 inches even with clean water and live food. I finally found a male a little over 1.5 inches and close enough to what I was looking for to breed her too. The breeding went almost well. I introduced the female to the male in the breeding tank and he went about flaring and building a nest. She displayed back and grew dark spots and filled up with eggs. I let her out after 2 days and she spent the next three running form the male. He soon figured out what to do and started luring her back to the nest. It took him about a day to figure out how to squeeze her and even then he only got about 3 eggs out each try. I ended up seeing about only 50 eggs go into the nest and then the next day they all disappeared. Then today there is only about 5 fry sitting in the nest. His stomach also always looks full so I think he might be eating them. Should I wait till he is a little older and try again with the same female? Or look for another small male?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Just wait...there's probably more fry than you think.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

i agree M.R. Vamp. just wait a few more days and you'll see the fry


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

yeah i'll definitely wait a few more days before I do anything else he seems to be guarding the nest some of the time...


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

I agree with Mr Vampire that there are almost always more fry than you think!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

lol i certainly learned that one once with an unexpected breeding once when I moved a bunch of females together with a male and the next day had a bunch of eggs. The fry never seemed to stop showing up with that one.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IDK why, but lately I've had males that doesn't want a large spawn. The theory that says they cull unhealthy fry doesn't quite fit to it. You see when I artificially hatched them, I came up with tons of healthy fry. So I just conclude that they don't want to worry about so many fry.

Back to your new HM male; if you suspect him of eating his fry, take him out regardless whether the fry are free swimming or not. DO NOT spawn him anytime soon. Rest him for at least 2 - 3 weeks (longer is better). DO NOT spawn him in a small tank. Use 10g or larger. Constantly cover half of the tank (where the nest is) to make him feel .... safe(?).... do not disturb him during the whole process (no picture taking, (if possible) no peaking, etc). 

There is no guarantee that he won't eat the eggs/fry again. But at least you'll be removing some reasons (theoretically) for such behavior. If he still eats them, then you'll have to remove him as soon as he is done spawning, either leave the eggs and hope for the best or artificially hatch them. Or simply use a different male.

Good Luck


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

Just a question, can you spawn a female with a male, then switch males to take care of the nest? just wondering.:|


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Chuckles*

Oh Lord... speaking of Breeding my friend who got a Female (from the Dorm Betta Giveaway I mentioned) and she keeps begging me to breed her with Drax. I think her Female is just a baby though! Less than an inch long. Haha and since I just got Drax in the new tank how long should I wait till I finally give into my friends new Obsession with wanting to have our fish mate :lol:


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

BG: Theoretically speaking, you can move the eggs of one spawn to another spawning male (foster male). But they would have to spawn at about the same time. IMO, one batch of fry is sometimes very exhausting for the male, let alone 2. Some people remove the original eggs.

DD: I would wait til the female is at least 3 - 3.5 cm. She should be old enough by then.


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> *Chuckles*
> 
> Oh Lord... speaking of Breeding my friend who got a Female (from the Dorm Betta Giveaway I mentioned) and she keeps begging me to breed her with Drax. I think her Female is just a baby though! Less than an inch long. Haha and since I just got Drax in the new tank how long should I wait till I finally give into my friends new Obsession with wanting to have our fish mate :lol:


 I wouldn't breed them, it's very hard to find good homes for 50 to 100 pet store bettas... Unfortunately, our beloved pet store bettas are considered "mutts" :/ It would be like taking dogs from the pound and breeding them and trying to sell/give away the puppies... It's difficult to do. You'd also be putting a lot of time and money into fish that would sell for nothing and would just end up rotting away on pet store shelves...  Breeding bettas takes up a good bit of money with the food and tanks and all....

Breeding pet store bettas is just not a sound decision financially or ethically if you don't have a bunch of people that want the babies as pets :/

But hey, if you want to spend all the money and time, and find a bunch of people to adopt them, you could do it.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

indjo said:


> BG: Theoretically speaking, you can move the eggs of one spawn to another spawning male (foster male). But they would have to spawn at about the same time. IMO, one batch of fry is sometimes very exhausting for the male, let alone 2. Some people remove the original eggs.
> 
> DD: I would wait til the female is at least 3 - 3.5 cm. She should be old enough by then.


I'll have to ask her to measure her fish... when I first saw her female I joked that Drax would just eat her haha. Couldn't have been more than a month old.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

TaylorW said:


> I wouldn't breed them, it's very hard to find good homes for 50 to 100 pet store bettas... Unfortunately, our beloved pet store bettas are considered "mutts" :/ It would be like taking dogs from the pound and breeding them and trying to sell/give away the puppies... It's difficult to do. You'd also be putting a lot of time and money into fish that would sell for nothing and would just end up rotting away on pet store shelves...  Breeding bettas takes up a good bit of money with the food and tanks and all....
> 
> Breeding pet store bettas is just not a sound decision financially or ethically if you don't have a bunch of people that want the babies as pets :/
> 
> But hey, if you want to spend all the money and time, and find a bunch of people to adopt them, you could do it.


Tell that to my friend who almost on a daily basis goes... "I want our fish to have sex!"


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> Tell that to my friend who almost on a daily basis goes... "I want our fish to have sex!"


LOL, crazy friend, I have one just like that actually :roll:


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

indjo said:


> If he still eats them, then you'll have to remove him as soon as he is done spawning, either leave the eggs and hope for the best or artificially hatch them.k


Whats your guys best method for artificially hatching? I tried it once and ended up with only 10 grown fry at the end. I put them in a container with less then 3 inches of water and an airstone to keep em moving toward the surface if they fell. And once they became free swimming just continued on like normal.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't think breeding fish just so they can have sex is a good reason to breed.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Creat said:


> Whats your guys best method for artificially hatching? I tried it once and ended up with only 10 grown fry at the end. I put them in a container with less then 3 inches of water and an airstone to keep em moving toward the surface if they fell. And once they became free swimming just continued on like normal.


I only use a small plastic bowl (from a cereal - diameter about 10 cm ) with no air stone. Fill it with about 2 - 3 cm water. I move the eggs with a spoon and try to spread them as best I could (the eggs should float but don't worry about the ones that sink). 

I float the bowl in a warmer tank, cover the tank where the bowl is (or you could cover the bowl only if it doesn't tilt). in a day or two, they should hatch. Some eggs will fungus and must be removed because newly hatched fry might get caught in them and IMO bad eggs will foul up the water (be extra careful because you will pick up fry along with bad eggs - I usually remove bad eggs to another bowl first then when 100% certain there's no fry, I throw away the eggs). You might not get all the bad eggs at once (at least I don't) because some may not fungus enough to be lifted (I use toothpicks - but you can use tweezers). 

Then I add about another inch of water. If the fry are gathered in one area, I would remove some water before adding to reduce toxic substances such as ammonia that may build up due to rotting eggs. Then I re-float and cover and wait till they become free swimming. And finally they are acclimated into the grow out tank.

My worst hatch is about 60% and my best is about 90%. IMO it depends on whether the eggs were good/bad in the first place and how bad fungus grows on bad eggs which will affect good eggs (that's why I spread the eggs all over the bowl).


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I basically artificial hatch the same way as Indjo except I use an eye dropper to remove fungus eggs and I add a small ramshorn or pond snail at the 24 hour mark to help with removal of bad eggs, weak fry...I also have water lettuce in the container-it is usually what the male has built his nest under to start but I will add fresh in my container as well-I also like to use plastic veggie wrap over the top along with the lid and use tape to attach the container inside a heated tank so it doesn't sink
Once free swimming I feed live foods-then I empty half the water out and add fresh at least twice a day until they are 7-10 days old and then I release them after proper acclimation into the grow out tank.


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, im shooting for a purple betta to come out from a spawn..... need to get a blue female. (that isnt attached right now.) (Sushi.)


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

BettaGirl290 said:


> Well, im shooting for a purple betta to come out from a spawn..... need to get a blue female. (that isnt attached right now.) (Sushi.)


 Purples are hard to get..I have a purple pair but if only they would spawn XP


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

Occasionally, I have lavender pastel bettas. I sold the perfectly matched pair at a show.


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