# treating fin rot with Melafix



## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

So yesterday I awoke to Blue with his tail disintegrating from tail rot. 
Amongst other things, I got Melafix to treat it...but wanted to make sure...

The directions say "dose daily for 7 days. After 7 days make a 25% water change. Continue treatment if necessary."

Dose this mean everyday I add another 5 ml of medicine for 7 days [he's in 10 gal tank]? 
Blue is filter-less atm until I get his filter this week...do I wait as suggested to make my water change [his tank still not cycled yet either], or should I keep doing regular 10-30% water change every 2-3 days?

need to know soon as if daily means I need to give him another dose tonight [sorry for late post...didnt think about it until I re-read directions today]


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Yes, it does mean to dose the same amount every day. I tried that stuff twice, and it never worked for me. Some people really like it though. I have had more luck with fungus clear by jungle labs. It works on both fungal and bacterial infections, so you have a good chance of killing whatever it is. I would continue to do the water changes. It would be terrible to try to save your fish with medications, only to have him die from ammonia poisoning.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

yes that would definitely be a tragedy...just wanted to double check first. Thanks for the response.

I just got him a new filter today...Tera Whisper Power Filter 20 [not the most fanciest...but better then previous one]. Exited to put it in


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Kim, what is the difference between Jungle Fungus Eliminator and Jungle Fungus Clear? I have used the fungus eliminator and wonder if the fungus clear was better.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

well...Blue's tail hasnt gotten shorter since he lost almost 25% the first day he got Fin Rot. 
But it dosent seem to be getting better either...not sure if its still infected, or if when growing back, is still a bit off color? 
This is my first case of fin rot owning a fish, so not sure whither his meds are working or not / how you tell the meds are working.
Instead of being the brilliant blue / green / red-pink colors it was before, his tail seems more dull, clear / cloudy at the ends. 

Melafix treatment started Sat [27th], making today day 4 of treatment. Directions say treat for a week...
but I hear if not clearing after 3 days, discontinue and treat with another medicine brand. Which should I do?

Also, not sure if his eyes are fully normal or not. Noticed they're a bit cloudy in the middle...but not sure what normal eyes look like from pop-eye? 
Are beta's eye suppose to be semi rounded, or flat / smooth against their body? Was looking at pics of him when I first got him...looks the same, just cloudier. 
Will post pics later. 

Tested water today with new Tera Freshwater Master test kit.
pH: 7.6+ pH [high]: 8.0 NO2: 0 NO3: between 4-5 NH3/NH4: 0 GH: 160-180 KH: 200-240

not sure why NO3 so low...how would I get it higher? What about GH & KH...normal or too high?
I have pH lower/decreaser...should I go ahead and use it to bring his pH to where it should be, or wait while he's on meds?

thanks


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## peubanksbarrow (Sep 26, 2008)

Hi! Don't know much but I do know that their eyes do protrude a bit naturally. If one is larger than the other be concerned. You can google pics to compare.

The cloudiness could be a secondary infection - I know that it is common fish being treated for velvet so I would assune that it would apply with others.

I wouldn't wait on the PH.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

shoot!
checked on Blue this morning, like every morning, to find his Cadual fin lost another 10% :'S
All the stuff that was clear/ cloudy is now gone, leaving only shredded like fins at the end [the ribs like things]
his dorsal fin looks a bit frayed, but not as bad as his cadual, or when it first appeared, although, his cadual and anal fins are starting to become same clear / cloudy too.
I did my testing last night at 10:30, with results being pH: 7.6+ pH [high]: 8.0 NO2: 0 NO3: between 4-5 NH3/NH4: 0 GH: 160-180 KH: 200-240 
Is water hardness to high, and if so, how do I fix?
going to put ph lower in tank as per suggested by reply.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

found another beta info site that said this about fin rot:



> So you start with the heavy duty weapon: Neosulfex (Ampicilex works good too). You change water of jar every 3 to 5 days, and add a new dose of medication at that time. If you can, you change jar every time as well, and sanitize the old jar. This will slow down bacteria as well. Once rot stops and fins start to grow back, you stop the heavy duty antibiotic and switch to something lighter and less 'harmful' for fish. Here again, same system, you change water every 3 to 5 days and add Bettamax every time you change water. After another 3 to 4 weeks in Bettamax, and if your betta shows no sign of relapse, you can stop all medicating. You cannot stop, however the frequent water changes. It has been my observation that once a betta gets sick, it will have a tendency to get sick again more often than another betta. So extra pampering may be needed to keep him in tip top shape.
> 
> I hope above helped you.


dose this mean I should remove Blue form his main 10 gal tank into smaller "quarantine tank"? or should I keep him in 10 gal? He got rot before I got the 10 gal, when he was in the 2.5 gal, so dont think 10 gal tank was the reason he obtained it.

Going to try to find the Neosulfex [or Ampicilex] as suggested, as his Melafix is not doing the trick, and he's getting worse over the 7 day treatment period.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

If he is the only fish in the tank, and the plants are fake, it would be much better to leave him in there. Less stress means a faster recovery.

I had the same thing happen to me both times I tried melafix. It looks like it is not getting worse, then they loose more fin. If the edges of his fins are white (not clear which would be new growth) then it may be fungal. It is really hard to tell the difference without access to a lab (which most of us don't have) so I would suggest treating with something that will treat both fungal and bacterial infections. I have never heard of either of the medications that you mentioned, but if I were you I would find out what types of fin rot that they are effective against (fungal, bacterial, or both),and aim for one that will treat both.

As for your pH, is 8.0 the lowest that your high level test will register. If it is, then the actual number may be between 7.6 and 8. This is high, but unless you plan on switching to either r/o water (with the addition of trace minerals) or a bottled (not distilled) water, then your tinkering with the pH will probably make things worse. Because water with a high pH is hard, it has a great buffering capacity and will usually resort to its origional pH within days of adding a pH down product. This just creates pH swings that will stress your fish. Believe me I have tried all of this (my water is 7.6) and nothing worked for me.

If his eyes are cloudy, he may have a secondary infection. Again an antibacterial/antifungal med. should take care of this as well. I would try the fungus clear, it has always worked for me, and will take care of fin rot as well as any secondary infection.

As to the difference between fungus clear and fungus eliminator, I really don't know. It could be the same product just with a different name, as every description that I have read for the two have been identical. I would just go with whatever your lfs sells.

Oh, and if his colors are fading it is because he is sick. When he is healthy again his vibrant colors will return.

It is always nice to hear that a betta is being kept in a 10 gal. tank.  Good luck, and if you have any more questions feel free to ask.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

thanks for the recommendation on med type...just want to clear one thing up first...
I was advised to wait until the 7 day treatment was up [the 4th is last day]. She said it gets worse before better, and stick with what I was doing...but if I should get one that treats both bacteria and fungus...should I just switch ASAP then? Melafix is only an antibacterial. 
If yes...then how should I go about switching out meds [100% water change first, 75%, 50%, 25% 0%]?

Reminds me...forgot to ask...since he's now got fin rot, should I be increasing his weekly water flushes of 20-30% every 2-3 days to every day, or dose it just depend on the med type? Melafix only says treat for 7 days then do 25% change. 

The water also dose not appear very cloudy...but I do notice some whitish build up starting to form. I dont do gravel cleans every time I do tank flushes of 20-30% as Im still in process of cycling his tank, but rather I vacuum the gravel every other time. Should I be doing it more or less?
I have been doing tank flushes of 20-30% every 2-3 days now, as I got this 10 gal tank the 27, after his fin rot appeared when he was in his 2.5 gal tank.

Could he have gotten the fin rot from the dwarf frog I had? She passed away the 19th this month from [what I thought] my Beta Blue picking on her too much [ate off middle fingers of right hand, and made a few sores on underside]. Before she passed, her eyes too were cloudy, yet Blue's were fine, so took it as she was about to die. After her death I did not do a full water change, but rather continued the 20-30% changes as normal. Was this the right thing to do? It wasnt but a little over a week later when Blue's tail rot made itself known [lost 15% of cadual tail and 10% of dorsal fin].


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

& thanks for the response kim...always nice to hear from another who experienced the same thing! 

Thanks for the comment about the tank size...all my life I always thought it was cruel to keep them in a small bowl, as I thought if I were a fish...I sure as heck like to SWIM around! The whole 1" per 1 gal rule should really be applied more oftin ;D 

Like many other pet factors I know I cannot change, I'm glad to know at least my little beta is happy with all the room he has. Less work for me, more room for him, less money spend on a smaller home = much happier buddy! XD

BTY...have 2 pH testers...a regular ph [6.0-7.6] and a high level pH [7.4-9.0]. The regular test showed 7.6+, while the high pH showed 8.0.
Just wanted to make sure the pH didnt have anything to do with the fin rot.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, as far a getting worse before getting better, I don't think that is true. When I treated my guy with the Fungus Clear it started to improve every day. Yes, little pieces of dead fin will fall off, but you will see the edges becoming more uniform, and soon clear regrowth will be evident. So, if it doesn't seem to be working I would just stop, do a 30% water change and put some carbon in your filter. If he can wait a day, do so and then do another 30% water change. If you were using a different med. I would say to wait until the dosage is done, but having been there with the Melafix before I am pretty sure that it is not going to get any better. If he can't wait a day (his fin is rapidly deteriorating) I would do several water changes over the course of the day. You want to make sure that you clear all previous meds. out before you put more in. Do not do a 100% change however, as this will ruin your cycle and just cause more problems.

I think that your water change schedule is fine. Hmmm...however, since the Fungus Clear is one tablet that lasts 1 week, as opposed to daily doses, you may want to see if you can wait that long before changing the water. If you are adding the meds every day, then the water changes won't be a problem, but if it is a one time deal, then you are taking out the meds. without putting any back in (it would be nearly impossible to figure out how much to replace). I would just keep watching the parameters and only do a water change if it is necessary.

Oh, just remember to take the carbon out when you put the new meds. in.

As to how he got it, could be that he scraped himself against something and it got infected. I have found that bettas seem to be prone to infections. Sometimes the cause is dirty water, but all water has bacteria in it and some fish are just more prone to it than others.

Tell me how it goes. I hope it works out for you as it did for me. My guy showed a ton of improvement when I switched to fungus clear, and his tail has about a 1/2" of new growth by now.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks allot Kim!

I got this response today from Tera care:



> The test results seem pretty good. For water change, we recommend changing 25% of the water every 2 weeks. Vacuum the gravel each time you do a partial water change. Treating with the medication will get rid of the bacteria that cause the fin rot, but it will still take some time for the damaged fins to grow back. Keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels to make sure that they remain low.


But Your advice is more thorough! 

So for today, think I'll be doing the 30% threw out the day, with his carbon filter back in...then tomorrow I'll get the fungus clear / fungus eliminator and start him on that. 
Seems the best thing to do is the weekly change once I start him on the Jungle, makes since, and dont want to mess with the water too much. 

[getting ahead of myself here, but curious] Once healing starts, and meds are done...whats best thing to do about filter? Should I buy a new one or old still ok to use? Dont want to place bad bacteria into his tank once healed, so thought I'd ask first.

thanks again, and I'll keep updated about his progress


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

Here's Blue Before Tail rot ate part of his fins, looking at us ;D








Before rot...body shot ;D ...dose his tail look normal?








First day of rot, he was active this day, hard to get good one...








little more detail, but still a-bit hard to see








not the best in detail...but can see whitish / cloudy area in fins...these disapeard next day [frays]








tail-end shot...can see string like ends now gone








same day, side shot








same day...can see cloudy eyes in this shot









will post more pics of how he looks today later.
His frays didnt disappear when I checked on him this morning...and dosent seem like more is gone. 
Didn't get a shot of him yesterday when another 10% disappeared...I just got Tera's fish salt yesterday though [when I was going to get another med brand too, and was told to wait], and put in 2 rounded tablespoons as per directed on back of carton. Think its starting to help him, as he doesn't seem to be getting worse


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Yup, looks just like what happened to my guy. If the filter is already on the tank, I don't think that it has any more chance for reintroducing the bacteria than the water, gravel, plants, etc. If the bacteria/fungus is in the tank and filter it will be killed by the medication anyway, along with what is on Blue. I would keep the filter running, but just take the carbon out. If you have the kind of filter pads where you have to dump the carbon in, use just the pad by itself. If the carbon is already in the pad (the pad is sewn to the backing with the carbon in the middle) just cut one side and shake the carbon out. This way your water will stay filtered while he is on the meds.  Good luck to you, Blue is really lucky to have you!


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

Cut along the top edge of the filter pad to dump the carbon out. That way, you can save the carbon and dump it back in the filter pad when you're done medicating to get the medication out of the water.

If you've already got the new medication, give it a shot. I had a betta with a pretty bad case of fin rot once, and Melafix alone didn't help much. Since then, I've found that using both Melafix and Pimafix at once works wonders for fin rot. I can't vouch for the Fungus Eliminator/Fungus Clear as I've never used either product, but many others on this forum have had success with it so if you already have it, go for it. 

Also, when I'm medicating, I try to do about a 90% water change (usually broken into three 30% changes) right before I start the medication. This gets the nitrate levels as low as possible so that you don't have to worry about doing water changes to keep the water quality in check while medicating, thus risking taking helpful medicine out of the water. 

Let us know how things work out!


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

havent purchased it yet...re-inserted to filter today. If you say Pimafix works well with Melafix...I'll give that a shot, as he seems to not have re-lapsed since I added the salt.
Otherwise, if I cant find it, I'll go with the Fungus Eliminator/Fungus Clear.
Some stuff came up, so wasnt able to get to water flushing until late [10:30] so only did one for today...will resume tomorrow as early as possible.

The filter is one of the Whisper bag-pouches, with the plastic inner "skeleton", exterior bag / pouch, carbon rocks, and the plactic clip that closes the top of inner "skeleton", so dumping carbon easy...however there were very small carbon pieces along with carbon dust I could not get rid of...will that effect medication? 
Should I go ahead and just buy a clean empty filter pouch as its brand new anyway [didn't get a chance to develop any bacteria at all, as only been in tank for total of barely 1 day...removed when started meds]


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

I have the same things. You could just invert the bag, and rinse the powder/small pieces out.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

I tried that...rinsed it for a long time, inverted and re-inverted 3-4 times...still some micro small pieces in there along with some stained dust...even tryed to scrap some out with nail...couldnt get it all. 
Will that small amount of carbon effect anything?


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

It shouldn't be a problem.


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## Haeclark (Sep 5, 2008)

*Bubble nest!*

Well...just wanted to give a quick update...

Came home from class today [woot! only 3 classes left, then no more college! 2 this term, final Portfolio last]

Checked on Blue as usual to see how he's doing, only to find he had FINALLY built a bubble nest! XD Wahoo!

Its been almost 2 weeks now since he built one [when he first got fin rot]. Only bubbles in or on water had been from the medicine. However, today the nest stretches from the full left side of tank wall, around corner to end of Whisper 20 power filter, ranging from 1/8" - 1/2" - almost 1" wide, and about barley 1/2" thick tall thickest/tallest area. Some of the bubbles formed a ring around the filter intake tube before I put in the current blocker [made from plastic bottle as someone recommended to do in this forum]

Today is day 5 on Pimafix, day 11 on Melafix, AND day 2 of no apparent signs of any more fin loss [if any, so small hardly noticeable] he's still recovering though, as he's still spitting out allot of his food [feed him Beta flacks...always spits all pellets now]

The combo seems to FINALLY be doing the trick! Thanks guys again for the info on med's...Blue thanks you too ;D
I would post a pic...but my camera's been acting wakky, and can only take videos on them.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Glad to hear that Blue is doing well.


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