# Female beta with half eaten head?



## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

one of my female betta's started having this white growth on her head.
she started to hide a lot after that, but i only thought it was because my male Betta was keeping her hidden (i have a territorial fella who chases the females when they come out. i'm a bad owner i know) I didn't see the growth as anything serious at the time (though i really didn't know what it is)

so while i was cleaning the tank yesterday, having to remove all the ornaments thus forcing my fish out for awhile. i finally saw this female betta of mine after so long.
and the growth on her head practically ate away half her face ...


















i had something similar the last time with another female of mine, but that was just a wound that never healed.

anyone know if this is a bacterial infection? I'd like to know what on earths happening to my fish so i can actually do something about it the next time anything like this happens again :/


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Always always get at least one daily look at your fish.. especially when you know they're sick. Also you cannot keep male and female bettas together in the same tank unless you are using a divider.. Please fill this out: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233

In the meantime she needs to be removed from this tank and quarantined in something smaller that you can keep heated. Either by using a heater or you can use an acrylic bowl of around 2 gallons and fill it half full and float in the main tank. She will need 100% water changes every other day along with the redosing of meds. Please look for Seachem Kanaplex or Furan 2 by API. Do you know how to dilute meds for smaller containers?

This is how you do large water changes without shocking:



> To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.


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## aemaki09 (Oct 23, 2012)

Callistra said it all!


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

Housing 
*What size is your tank? *
30 by 30 square tank

*What temperature is your tank?*
I have never measured the temperature before and do not really have anything i can use to measure it

*Does your tank have a filter?*
yes it does. The brand is a H-300 Dolphin. 

*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?*
if you mean an air pump, i do not have an air pump installed in my tank

*Is your tank heated?*
No, i do not own a heater.

*What tank mates does your betta fish live with?*
A bunch of corydoras, some otocinclus cat fish suckers. one balloon lamp eye fish, 2 black phantom tetras (though it will soon be 1 as 1 of them is sick as well) 1 other female betta who's younger and 1 male betta.

Food
*What type of food do you feed your betta fish?*
as of now i bought the wrong type, usually i feed them flakes meant for goldfish. now their living off Sanyu Tropical flakes.

*How often do you feed your betta fish?*
once a day in the morning.

Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change?*
once a week or once every 2 weeks

*What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?*
Half the tank water, if it's a been 2 weeks since the last change I tend to change 60%

*What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?*

if you mean by the stuff i add to make the water safe for my fish. I'm currently using nutrafin aqua plus

Water Parameters:

I have never tested my water before.

Symptoms and Treatment
*How has your betta fish's appearance changed?*
her colors have gotten slightly duller. she darker then I remember. and slightly thin (probably due to the fact that she's not use to the food. which i plan to change soon)

*How has your betta fish's behavior changed?*
Hides most of the time, i cannot find her in my tank half the time

*When did you start noticing the symptoms?*
Quite awhile ago, I would say at least 3 months

*Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?*
No i have not, though i do care for my fish, when they are sick i tend to do nothing

*Does your fish have any history of being ill?*
no, all my fish die from disease and never get better 

*How old is your fish (approximately)?*
Roughly 2 years, she was given to me by a friend who's tank was infected by something that was making his fish die.


I've never really done anything for my sick betta fish before. so no I don't know how to dilute meds for smaller containers.
My males have always gotten along well with my females. i only knew never to put 2 males together, always thought male and female fish could be placed together in one big tank.
as if now i just want to know what's happening to my female betta. I am unable to move her out of the current tank because i do not have a spare filter and the space to set up a quarantine tank.
currently waiting for the population in my tank to die so i can restart with just 1 fish. all my fish have been with me for 3 years and i have not bought and do not plan to add any more fish to my tank. 

i just want to know/identify the problem that is happening with this female of mine if there is a name to what's going on, on her face. 

Thank you for the replies


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Well I'm a little confused, if you want them to die off so you can start over with one fish why are you asking how to help her? IME, when the tank temp is not kept at least 76F & regular water changes are not done they get diseases or illnesses. It is possible she was attacked by one of your other fish since your tank is not properly stocked. When my female had body rot, I put her into a properly heated, filtered & sized tank & she healed with clean water. You don't have to set up a QT tank, get a Tupperware bowl or something similar that you can put water in, you can float it in the bigger tank. Somebody else will advise on meds


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

That's the thing, I'm not really asking how to help her.
i just want to know if there's any identification to what's happening to her. Is there any name (e.g bacterial infection, fungus growth ) to what's happening to her face besides the fact that it could be a wound that's not healing
in the future i will be more serious with caring for any betta fish i get, but right now i'm only here to find out what i do not know.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Your pictures aren't that clear, but it exactly your subject title.*

The female betta had it's face ripped off so what you're seeing is the exposed flesh. 

If that still doesn't make sense, basically if I tore off the skin off your face, it would look like the guy from the Freddy Krueger movie minus the skin. 

Bettas have white flesh like haddock/cod. It's not pink like salmon. 

I'm sure you've had steamed fish before, there's only muscle around the cheek area for most fish. The rest is mostly bones/cartilage

When a fish gets injured, it HIDES so it can SURVIVE another day. 

Good luck to your new fish when the rest of rest of the inhabitants pass away.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Please do the humane thing & either rehome all of your fish or euthanize them humanely so they don't continue to suffer and please don't get more. They are living creatures that deserve to be cared for properly.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

i see. okay.

how do you euthanize fish? really never heard of it before so if i can i would.

thanks for your in put.

Don't worry i won't be getting any more until i learn how to care for them properly.
i haven;t gotten any news ones ever since the current inhabitants started getting sick.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Thank you for being open minded its a shame to euthanize them all instead of finding new homes but there different methods for euthanization. Here is what some consider the most humane:
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm

There are other methods which you can google.


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## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

I know they can be a handful, but could you hold off on euthanizing everything in your tank for a bit to see if you can find someone who wants them? Just use word of mouth? The healthy ones could still end up in a good home with someone who would really love to have them.

I gave my Neons away to a woman for her grandaughter. Just ran into her at walmart and asked her if she wanted them. I ran into her later and she said the little girl was in awe of them and dotes over her fishies. It was worth taking the time to rehome them 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

ahhh, I'm not sure rehoming my fish is a good idea at the moment.

the only people i know who actually have the knowledge of taking care of fish are somewhat like me, and they already have plenty of fish in their own tanks. we're not as "hard core" as the people here, as in we keep bettas but we don't go to what we consider as "such lengths" as to get a heater and measure the pH levels and what not ^^;;; at most we get a large enough tank with room for them to swim and plenty of places to hide.

the fish forums over here are not as active as this global one, and i'm not too sure how other owners are like beyond my group of friends. So i don't think i will be as successful. Chances are my pets are going to end up with an owner thats just like me. 
So i'm just seeing what i can do to improve my fishes lives a bit more. only one 2 in my stock are sick, the rest still look and act healthy and i've kept them alive this long so might as well see how i can improve in being a better keeper.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

.... You kept a male betta with females. That was asking for trouble already, especially since he was not mellow enough. He probably was the reason she got hurt. I've been told once my giant is old and lazy to place him in a sorority but I still would not trust him x) She probably did have her face torn off. And now is infected, and yes everyone else will die. 

If you need to, euthanise. Ice water, drop them in. Shock kills them. Smash them with a hammer (in a bag to avoid mess). Or clove oil.

Or like they said, see if someone wants them.

Right now, if you wanted to keep them and try, remove them all to separate containers. 1 gallon would even suffice right now... Place in the warmest room in your house away from drafty doors windows and hallways.

To me it looks like columnaris is going to kick in.


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## SolomonFinch (Dec 22, 2012)

Hardcore?
You mean like, metal or punk, right?
Surely taking care of a pet, or expressing an interest in its health isn't "hardcore".
You Can Easily Judge the Character of a Man by How He Treats Those Who Can Do Nothing for Him


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## SolomonFinch (Dec 22, 2012)

Says the person who just had a fish "disappear" on her.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Before you euthanize her, quarentine her and give her the cleanest water possible with a anti fungal.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Ok, buying a heater is providing a necessity for life, not a "great length".


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## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

I kind of take a little offense to that. My fish is one of my pets. I also have a dog and a cat. They get fed good food, shots, a vet visit if they get sick, ocasional treats, and affection. I also make sure that they don't get too cold or get put in dangerous situations. It doesn't make me a "hardcore" fish person if I care for my fish as well as my dog and cat. It makes me a normal pet owner.

And please look at if from our point of view. We have a person with a sick or injured fish. We try to help, but then are told that the owner doesn't want to save the fish and in fact waiting on them all to die so he/she can replace them and would in fact euthanize all the fish in the tank to accomplish this. We also find out that the owner has not provided a healthy environment for his fish and does not plan on providing good care. It is just about the same as finding out someone has a dog in a little pen in the back yard that they occally throw food in & are planning on euthanizing the dog to buy a new one.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

when it comes to fish there are those who really take care of them as pets and those who don't.
those who don't are usually people who don't understand that fish are the same as any other animal, just because they cannot feel the same affection they would get from any other pet. So they do not see a point in actually getting stuff like heaters and checking the water pH and because there's no actual vet for a fish some, like me, don't bother to find a solution to cure their fish. I use the term "Hardcore" with quoting, because in the eyes of such a person, going through all the basics listed here on the forums that you need to keep you betta happy is something i don't understand because i have yet to open my eyes to the fact that fish are not just décor, but actual animals. 
To those who were like me, a large enough tank and proper filtration was good enough.

i am one of the few who didn't treat her fish like how i would with any other animal because my eyes were not open, and i admit that i use to see my fish as more of décor then actually being a pet. A novelty to look at at the side of your table.

but now, because of this, I now see beyond my ignorant mindset and i'm trying to change, that's why i am here. to find out what i've been doing wrong and correcting what i can.
i really don't think i can save this fish (her name is Tiny) with my current experience so instead of just letting this slip by like i always have, i'm at least coming here find out things that i need to find out and try and maintain my current fishes.
I dont come here to offend or to spite anyone because i'm stupid and a complete idiot.
i'm just here to learn and obtain info from people who actually take care of their fish.

Sorry if i offended anyone, but really. half the things listed in the general betta care and FAQ, never ever crossed my mind as necessary until now


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## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm sorry if I came off harsh, but I'm glad you want to try to start seeing them as pets instead of decor. It's a good start 

I would personally get rid of the tetra as they are schooling and so few can become violent and attack others or fin nip. The otos and corys are good for cleaning. Are they healthy? How many are there? Do they still have their barbles? I don't know much about the other, so someone else will have to cover that.

When you decide to get a new betta (or if you decide to save one you already have), you can make some inexpensive changes that will make them more happy and healthy.

First thing is get a heater. Tropical fish need warm water to stay healthy. Next, if you can ditch the flakes and feed your betta pellets, you will cut down on leftovers in your tank. Finally, water changes. As many as you have now, you would have to do a lot of pwc a week to keep amonia down (toxic to fish!), but 20% perweek will work when you have 1 betta
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

What I like about you, is that you pointed out you know you've done wrong and want to fix it 

Right now, put her in a 1 gallon quarantine, with daily water changes (with tap water conditioner added). It will probably be a fungal infection which will be worse in 80 degrees anyways.

As for the others, remove the male from the females. It can be really risky, especially since you know he is a meanie. 

Even DECOR needs to be taken care of ;-) Otherwise it is no longer decor, it is a dust collector. Anything that has a heart, a mind, a soul... Breathes, or serves a purpose in the world - whether plant or animal, we need to take care of. We've taken away mother nature, therefore we must become it.

It is not that hard to care for bettas... It may seem like it through all the reading, but you can make it easier on yourself.

Try rehoming the females, and for the sick ones you can try, or you can euthanize. Keep the male and we can easily walk you through everything you need to make sure he remains healthy.

A healthy betta will have better colors, finnage, and attitude with a little bit of proper care ;-) That way he can still be a "look at me!" fish, but still have good husbandry behind that.


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## SolomonFinch (Dec 22, 2012)

I used to HATE fish. Couldn't look at them in restaurants, etc...

Until I met Elvis, my first Oranda. He is like a little puppy that lives exclusivly in water. 
I can't even eat fish now.

I think now you may have some guilt... but seriously, you either like fish or you don't. If you didn't sense any sentience from your tank before....you do now? 
If so, cool. Best of luck to you and your pets.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I will have to say don't kill your fish, put them all up for adoption here. There are plenty of people who would want them and can take great care of them and give them a loving deserving home they need. After that as said don't get more fish if you don't want to take care of them. Any pet requires care and if you can't give animals care then you shouldn't own pets. I'm not sure if the female could survive the transfer to another home or how well she would do but unless you are 100% dedicated to her care for the time she won't survive. She would also need a heater to recover and prevent infection as well as AQ salt.

If you need to get rid of your fish then you can post on this site and let people know where you live (state) so you can drive to drop them off or people can pick them up. A lot of people here take in fish from rescue situations or when members of our forum have more fish than they can care for. If you get rid of your fish don't get any more. Caring for fish isn't as easy as tossing them into tanks and that is that. There is more to it. Are you cycling the tanks? If not they have to be fully cleaned from the gravel up every week. How large is your tank, is it large enough for the fish? Do you have a heater? If not the fish is able to get sick. How much do you feed, how often do you feed, do you have a fasting day? Is the tank properly decorated with enough hiding places? Do you have tank mates, are they safe with your other fish? Even goldfish are more complex than people think and they are actually GREAT loving fish.


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## jsgossamer (Oct 11, 2012)

Put them in Craig's list or bring them back to the pet store, they are living creatures whether you find value in their life or not. The female can be saved. If you think euthanizing a creature because of your own issues is okay....it isn't. Sorry, to be harsh, but I'm tired of people thinking lives are disposable.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

LadyVictorian said:


> I will have to say don't kill your fish, put them all up for adoption here. There are plenty of people who would want them and can take great care of them and give them a loving deserving home they need.


I would if there's anyone here who actually live where I live lol. I gave my last healthy female Betta to a friend of mine who has a tankabout the size as mine
with only one guppie inside it (no other fish but the guppie). I think she'll do better in her care then with me since i already have a male in my tank.
For now i'll just try to make do what i can for my current fishes who look and act healthy



jsgossamer said:


> Put them in Craig's list or bring them back to the pet store, they are living creatures whether you find value in their life or not. The female can be saved. If you think euthanizing a creature because of your own issues is okay....it isn't. Sorry, to be harsh, but I'm tired of people thinking lives are disposable.


I'm trying to change my mind set about their lives being disposable part.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

js I think you missed the page where they said they wanted to turn this around :3

So, what size of tank do you have btw? And do you have a heater?


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## RoMay (Nov 28, 2012)

I think one of your main mistakes was not checking the compatability of your fish. That isn't to uncommon. Always make sure there is compatability, but just because they are compatiable doesn't mean you should always do it. Female bettas can get along together in a soriety, but that is something experianced owners should do. That way you know what behaviors to watch out for.

Next miss step is a lot of people make, and still fail to provide and that is a proper environment. If we could fix that we wouldn't have tanks less then a gallon, and a gallon is pushing it for smaller fish.

Now the question is how are you going to untangle the mess your in. And I think starting from square one is your best bet. I don't mean offing the fishies, I mean seperating them or dividing the tank into sections and read through all the information. It may be scary and intimidating but once you get used to caring for them it really isn't so hard. You'll also will enjoy having your fish more because happy fish are amusing fish.

Stuff happens in life, either you learn for it, or you prove you're an idiot. Fact your on here seeking help means you're not an idiot. I wish you all the luck with your fish.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

Sena Hansler said:


> js I think you missed the page where they said they wanted to turn this around :3
> 
> So, what size of tank do you have btw? And do you have a heater?


a 30 by 30 square tank. 
i just got a heater this afternoon. but i only really need it when i turn the AC on in my room since i live in a tropical country, and my tank water is already at 84.4F without the heater.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Wow! Okay, well is the heater adjustable? If so, set the heater to 82 degrees (so there is only ever a small drop if anything). and it will just not turn on until it falls under 82 degrees 

Is the dimensions 30x30x30 (length, height, width)?


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

yeah, its adjustable, i'll do just that.

yes, it's a square tank so all dimensions should be the same. My aunt (who use to keep goldfish in this tank years ago) told me if was a 30 by 30


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Inches? Then that tank is approximately "116" gallons. That's a big tank? :lol:


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

30 by 30 cm lol
sorry for not being clear since we only use cm where i come from lol.


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## RoMay (Nov 28, 2012)

That's what approx foot by foot (30cm = 11.8inches)? That's a tiny tank. How tall is it 3o as well?


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

yes it is. 
Square tank

i use to keep my bettas in a smaller tank till i decided to get my aunts unused one. which is the current one i have now


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## RoMay (Nov 28, 2012)

That is WAY to small except for one betta. I am not great at approximating gallons but I know that's not much bigger then what Jabi is swimming in now. You need a minimum 10 gallon for a seority (sp?).


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

currently now, since i put down the fish mentioned here and gave away my last female.

i only have 1 male betta, about 4 corys, 1 black phantom, 1 baloon lamp and a few ottos that i never really keep track of anymore

no i don't plan to get any more any time soon


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## RoMay (Nov 28, 2012)

That still is to much for a tank that size. Not to sound harsh or anything, but you should seriously consider getting arid of more fish and investing in a larger tank. Before that I would consult other members who owned multiple fish on what size tank to get. That is IF you want the responsibility. , Just a warning you with that many fish in that small of an area issues are still going to occur. I may not be an experianced betta keeper, but my dad had other fish tanks growing up I know how messy fish fights can get in an over crowded tank


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

okay, thanks for your input.

the current fish in the tank have lived for roughly 3 years without any problems so far (until recently) so i'm waiting to see what happens and then stick to just having 1 fish


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## RoMay (Nov 28, 2012)

You do realize fish grow right? Especially algea eaters; that is all I have to say on that subject.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yes, 10 gallons minimum for a sorority. 30 minimum for a male and a sorority (if male is mellow as are females, and tank is long not regular or tall) and that even then is risky. 50+ for male and females would be best, and again... Can still be risky.


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## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

She might have a point hun. They might be having problems now because they are growing and thus taking up more space and producing more waste. How you thought about taking out the bettas and putting each one in its own 2 or 3 gallon container? The remanders should be okay in the tank. Bettas can do fine without a filter and with your house staying a nice warm temp, they wont get too cold without a heater. Just try to put something in each bowl or container that they can hide in to make them feel safe. And you can treat that female for her wound if she is alone and it will keep her from making the others sick. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

Ok i just read this whole thread! In my opinion the first half is horrid, instead of euthanizing them because you cant get rid of them, bring them back to the pet store or let them go in a fresh water stream or pond/lake. Sure its not recommended because it could possibly have an effect to your ecosystem, but sheesh it beat smashing them with a hammer and poison. And if any one doesnt agree with letting go in to the wild, just consider they have more of a chance of surviving. just gosh you would have to be really demented to but a fish in a bag and smash it be cause first for you to now were the head is the bag is going to be some what see through, so you will end up seeing fishy insides, and if you use a bag the you cant see through you run the risk of not hitting its head and making it just suffer more until you end up giving a deadly blow. Im mean really this last comment isn't really ment toward every one, BUT SOME OF YOU REALLY NEED TO RECHECK YOUR VIEWS ON FISH


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

I already removed my last female and gave her to a friend of mine.
so now i only have 1 male, 1 lamp eye, 1 phantom and a bunch of corydoras and oto cat fish.

yes i know they grow
currently my fish aren't going to get any bigger then they already are since they've been the same size for almost a year now.

i didn't put down the female mentioned in the thread via the bag smashing method (that i couldn't possibly do now even though i did more horrible things in the past which i now really regret)

i used the clove oil and Vodka method shellieca linked me at the first page of this thread


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

SOMETIMES euthanasia is the ONLY WAY,"eatmice". If a fish is suffering badly and will not make it, do you want us to pull a hippy move and keep the poor thing alive for our own stupid feelings? Smashing with a hammer is one of the top recommended, and you're BTW ranting on a fish forum AT everyone who mentioned it. That's rude.

As for letting any type of animal go into the wild the animal suffers and so does the ecosystem. Here people release snakes. Who die. After wiping out food during the spring and summer for other animals. Moral of the story: can keep it? Find someone else for it. Don't abandon it.

Anyways... -.- I'm glad you went to clove oil. I only use that method, mainly because I do not like the hammer method... Or insta-freezing. It's a lot more... Peaceful.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

ya because the betta is out to kill dogs and birds, i also hear they like to kill people also so, if your going to use a simile use one that has a common element with a betta fish, and whos to say the she wouldnt have healed, and why give it away if we have your beautiful hammer technique (sarcasm)
how can you smash something you love!!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Eatmice, I swear to god I'll bring a mod into this I am not going to let anyone have to deal with your crap.

OP has already stated they are trying to do right stop dragging people down with that nonsense.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

first off am i supposed to be scared and second im not messing with any one if you dont like my post get over it you didnt have to post back to it nor twards me


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Wow. A new member coming over to make this place into Y.A. -.- leave the OP alone. They understand they did wrong but telling them to do something illegal AKA dump animals into the wild is not recommended especially on this site.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

im sure thats not considered as being childish( sarcasm), And yes i am trying to take over- im going for world domination(sarcasm), and im just using that as an better way instead of smashing. so why dont you just shut up and grow up and while at it learn to look the other way. 

sorry to the rest of the page for ranting my opinion


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

But dumping a domesticated animal into the wild is not the better way... FYI I listed off the known methods. If you care for fish so much, and nothing else... Well you are a sad soul.

The ecosystem that can be damaged is many things. Comumnaris spreads, and if that fish had it well you could've killed a lot more than one fish. Ecosystem does not mean "people and dogs harr harr" it's microorganisms, snails, plants, small fish, EVERYTHING. Sure we may not notice a difference but as people we're naive and don't see the damages WE cause. Millions of species die and we don't even know it.

Do not suggest illegal activity. Ever. Even if you think it's right, it's not.


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## Phaydra (Nov 20, 2012)

Eatmice you need to calm down. It's the native fish and other aquatic animals in the area that need to be thought about here. That many fish in one small tank there is bound to be disease and you just suggested releasing that into a native population. Considering the female had a big chunk of her head missing I believe it's for the best she was put down. It's not about your feelings, my feelings, Sena feelings or the OPs feelings. It's about an animal that was in an extreme amount of pain and the futures lives of native animals. 

Shepaski I am glad you decided to take responsibility and actions to correct this situation. I want to say welcome to the forums. I hope that you continue to think of the comfort of your fish and find a larger container to keep them in. Doesn't have to be a glass tank. A large plastic container or bowl would work as well.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Sena is 100% right about not releasing fish into the wild . Look at Florida with all the Burmese pythons released into the wild because stupid people didn't do their research on how to take care of them. Now the Florida wildlife people are trying to get rid of them because they are having an effect on the ecosystem. 
Bettas out to kill dogs and birds? Uh, what? 
Also, many people euthanize fish because they don't want them to suffer. There is nothing wrong with it. Let's stop arguing please and get back on topic.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I use plastic containers to quarantine, and plus they are a lot cheaper than your average glass tank.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

ok i have a life and i dont just care about fish which are also living animals, but thats your problem you apperntly dont care to smash them with a hammer ( could have deleted it from the list ) and yes i understand that he used a different way- which i am happy it wasnt as grusome.

And for the dumping part i completely understand about all that so i wont suggest it as an alterantive.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

How come you don't care about fish... And are on a fish forum?

Oh, by the way... Smashiing with a hammer, I hate it. I used it once, and I hated it. That is why I push pass my extreme allergy of clove oil, to make it less painful on myself (visual person, it sticks in my mind for a good long time) and make it seem more peaceful, even if the method takes more time. I post it, as I won't be one of the people who says... "There is ONLY clove oil and if you use any other way you are a bad person" because there are people on this forum who do freeze, insta-freeze, or smash with a hammer.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I have a half gallon container that I use as a sort of *hospice* tank for fish that I know aren't going to make it. I don't euthanize mine because I'm afraid I'd make things worse for the fish. There are different ways to euthanize fish, Eatmice. It's up to the hobbyist as to what method they want to use, if any. I'm not overly fond of smashing fish, either but you have to use the method that's right for you or like me, choose to let them die on their own.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Some people feed them to bigger fish which that right there I won't recommend. I'd imagine it to be terrifying... For the betta, stressful and not so... Painless. Plus Aquarium Central guy fed a sick fish to another fish.. Too bad he did not know she had columnaris!! That's a much worse "euthanasia" method. Blech.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

i said i dont just care about fish, i didnt said i didnt care about fish, i completely understand what your saying and ive also seen some poor animals get smashed, "but not on purpose", so it erked to hear that and i am sorry i should of have not posted without listening to your side and for suggesting dumping.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Ahh okay :lol: it read like "I just don't care about fish" as in you just.. Don't care.

Animals smashed "not on purpose"?


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

ohhh when i was about ten me and my brother were playing some kittens in our room , he went to clime on to our bunk bed and knocked over our tv and it landed on two of the kittens in front of me and i ended up going to a therapist because it devistated me


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yikes... Sorry you saw that. It isn't the greatest childhood memory for sure -.-;


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

ya it wasnt but im okay now, it just hurts to think about it


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

Okay... Stirring this back to the topic at hand:

Fish keeping isn't cheap, I started out thinking that it was, all it needed was a tank, food, conditioner and the fish.

I was so wrong, it is a very laborious hobby. Even more than having a cat, hamster, of the sort.
(I don't include dog because they are hard work too)

Good thing about fish keeping is that it gets cheaper than any pet when you have everything set and you can adopt more at a very low cost.

Being a college student I know what I am saying because I am with a budget.
Now, who will be your friend?

- Dollar stores

Cheap temporary things can be bought there.

Plastic tub/tupper like places you can get to be your temporary tank, as well as 2gallon jars (around 3-4liters) 
Cheap hiding places for your tank like coffee mugs, bowls, pots...

The thing you may need in urgency is a *heater*, like people said, adjustable heaters are great because you can always adapt the heat to your fish needs.

Then perhaps some *aquarium salt* (not kitchen salt) will help the fungus if you cannot afford any fish medicine against it.

And if you can get your hands on* Oak leaves or Indian almond leaves* it will help the healing as well.

If you have the budget:

- Fungus medication
- Anti-bacterial medication 
- Anti parasitical medication
- Epsom salts

you should get them in that order, these are the medications that can save your fish in a time of need, it's nice to always have them at hand  

If not with the basics:

- Aquarium salt
- Epsom salt
- Indian almond leaves or oak leaves

A water testing kit is not necessary but it is helpful sometimes when you cannot determine what is wrong with your fish because it is probably something in the water that is wrong.

You can get a master liquid testing kit, or if you are short on money, PH and Ammonia.

Now, as people said QT your bettas in separate places, keep an eye on them and make sure they aren't sick as well.

If you cannot afford 3 heaters then I recommend what I have done to keep my betta's warm while I can afford 2 more heaters, because they got smashed.

Get 1 plastic, glass tub, put the heater there at 28-27C, or 78F, with a bit of water then house your fish in jars like in the picture I will show you.

The heater will heat up the water and keep the jars warm, this is what I was setting up for them XD as a temp thing


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## Butterfly (Nov 13, 2012)

heck, you can keep a betta in those giant pretzel jars...those sourdough pretzels from costco?(YOU EVEN HAVE A COVER OMG!  xD) You could use a lot of different things to keep your betta happy and healthy, they just aren't aesthetically appealing at all xD 

I once euth'd a gecko that mom sprayed chemicals on on by putting him in a bag (white thank god) and dropping a big heavy brick on him. That's a better way imo. than hammering...that must be scary D; I like the clove/vodka method. sounds fine. 

OP, sad that it started out badly, but at least you became aware. If you are aware, you can definitely change. Post craigslist ads for your remaining fish if you want to start over with just one. I'm sure someone will be willing to take them. 

After all your unwanted fish are gone, sanitize your tank but keep the filter in water(so bb doesn't dry out). I would use vinegar and water, rinse really really well. 
As for your tank size, is it 30cm x30cm or 30in? (wait did i even read that right it's really early and I stayed up all night because i discovered this great new energy shot that is just really concentrated tea no sugar doesn't irritate me xD /random sorry). If it's the bigger of the two, i recommend getting a self priming siphon to help remove the water. I just got one but I have not used it yet. 

Yeah, I was in for a surprise when my little $9(would have been $14 but i used a coupon) ended up costing me well over $100 to be a 'good owner'+ feed my aesthetic side...I could have bought a cheaper tank but I wanted the pretty glass one with the pretty fountain. I didn't mind the cost though. He's super fun to have and I love him. I think starting up is the expensive part if you only have one. Maintaining isn't bad at all. Especially for the reward of being greeted with a, 'feed me omnomnom' face. xD


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

ok ok from this point on we are not going to talk about smashing its making my heart drop every time i read and visualise these sanarios


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

And we're going to get back on topic.  Carry on.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

I love the creativity of your setup asukabetta


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

so far,
now since i have 1 betta left (with Tiny gone and my other female in an about to die state after the clear signs of dropsy just appeared this afternoon at my friends place where i tried to rehome her. my other fish are still with me)

I'm now just trying to get the fella to get use to the betta food i purchased. He doesn't look like he's use to the little grains and still prefers flakes. have to see how he responds over the next few days.
Heater comes in handy especially since we turn the AC on every now and then. (even though its not really a must to have one in my country.)
At the moment i'm not sure what else to do. 

i'll check out the store here to see if i can get the basic stuff i need in case any of my fish get sick again.

~

oh and just a note about the releasing fish to the wild part. people here use to do that when the "Lohan fish" or Flowerhorn cichlid crazy died down here. many people bought the fish because there was a myth that if you stare hard enough at the fish's body, you will see the winning numbers for the lottery reflected on its scales. when the people got such of the fish, they dumped them into one of the reservoir here and the fish eventually took over the whole reservoir. I don't know how badly the eco system became after that.


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## WhiskeyHands (Dec 2, 2012)

eatmice2010 said:


> ya because the betta is out to kill dogs and birds, i also hear they like to kill people also so, if your going to use a simile use one that has a common element with a betta fish, and whos to say the she wouldnt have healed, and why give it away if we have your beautiful hammer technique (sarcasm)
> how can you smash something you love!!


if you aint happy how about you pay for the shipping of OP and take the fish from him to that you can give them proper care? Asking people to shut up and grow up with your attitude isn't quite something you are in position to do with your point of views son.

EDIT: didnt read the thread afterwards but seems like you guys are fine, cheers


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm aware of that now and if i had found this site soon enough probably would have. 
But that discussion is in the past now


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

eatmice2010 said:


> I love the creativity of your setup asukabetta


thanks I might end up with this setup permanently, my mother has declared war on my bettas. She says I have too many 5gs, and wants me to rid of all of them except one...

Divided tanks make me queesy so I might have to get 2g jars instead and put them inside a 10g.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

YESSS must find ways to keep all bettas mwhahahahaha


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Anyone who isn't directly helping Shepaski, I suggest you stop posting in this thread as I see we aren't staying on topic very well.


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## Bluewind (Oct 24, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Anyone who isn't directly helping Shepaski, I suggest you stop posting in this thread as I see we aren't staying on topic very well.


+1
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Shepaski, the value of having a local, fairly knowledgeable fish store is a great help. We in the US are overwhelmed with competing "chain" pet mega stores with less than knowledgeable help; that's why these web sites were created. I think your area is where we were 15 years ago; some incredibly valuable independent stores that specializes in fish. I'd bring my sick fish to them and ask for help. They may take the fish and treat it for you. I miss those "boutique" fish stores-they cared so much- so much more than just replacing the sick/dead fish.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

Xaltd1 said:


> Shepaski, the value of having a local, fairly knowledgeable fish store is a great help. We in the US are overwhelmed with competing "chain" pet mega stores with less than knowledgeable help; that's why these web sites were created. I think your area is where we were 15 years ago; some incredibly valuable independent stores that specializes in fish. I'd bring my sick fish to them and ask for help. They may take the fish and treat it for you. I miss those "boutique" fish stores-they cared so much- so much more than just replacing the sick/dead fish.


not sure if the shop i patronize is that type a shop your referring to. we can only buy fish at "aquarium shops"(or fish shops) here that only sell fish. the one i frequent is run by an uncle and an auntie and the shops always packed with people their usually not free enough to help with sick fish (sometimes the tanks at the shop have dead fish in them and maybe one or 2 with fungal infection but that was only once.)
the other one just a few stores down is somewhat similar. but less people though the shop people don't seem like the type who would bother about sick fish.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Most of the shopkeepers do not bother with treating ill fish because it doesn't make financial sense. The amount of time it would require to treat, it's easier to just dispose of the fish by feeding it to a larger animal. 

That's the reason why Shepaski posted here. 

Unless the shopowner specializes in Bettas, they typically don't know much other than the basics of care. All they want to do is keep the fish alive & healthy long enough to be sold. 

Using $2-$5 to heal a fish they probably purchased for .10-.25 cents?

If there's any other members in S'pore reading this thread, let me know. 

I'm trying to locate some betta type places near the East Side of S'pore in the next 2 weeks or so.

Good luck with your dropsy.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

MSG said:


> Most of the shopkeepers do not bother with treating ill fish because it doesn't make financial sense. The amount of time it would require to treat, it's easier to just dispose of the fish by feeding it to a larger animal.
> 
> That's the reason why Shepaski posted here.
> 
> ...


you from S'pore as well?

at the moment i'm spending more then $2 - 5 on my fish that cost me $1 lol. not that i'm complaining, since Epson salt here is not cheap at the shop i go to ) : the internal bacteria medication already cost me $7 and i'll have to get the $8 epson salt if the $2+ one isn't recommended ><


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

You are not a bad owner; you just live in a culture that looks at fish more as a commodity than a true pet, it seems. Attitudes toward fish (and cats and dogs, too) change with localities within countries, different countries, and even different people. I've traveled across the U. S. and have seen packs of dogs roaming around- not wild dogs, but domestic dogs! That was out west; that sort of thing is illegal around here, a more urban area with leash laws.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Betta fish should never ever ever be housed together unless you are very experienced especially males and femals. I hope she gets better. That's awful.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Lack of information, more than likely. But now that they are on this site, they can get a lot more information and knowledge to help them along with their further choices.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah, i hope, i was shocked when i read that.... Sena, i went to the fierst page, and they PURPOSELY housed the fish together so they would die off, im linking a MOD here ASAP.


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