# something is wrong with sparta



## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

well many people know my 3 month old stunted fry "Sparta", he isn't eating no more! :-( (also i am going to stick with "he" because it is easier than "he/she") and he isn't really swimming, he is always speeding up to get air, and falling back down :-( am really worried. and i still didn't get the money for a heater, i cleaned his tank today and he has been doing that for a while. he ignores the food also. what do i do??


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## Boikazi4o9 (Jan 24, 2012)

Maybe it's the nitrogen cycle? Or it can be the heater not sure.


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## GreyCheyenne (Feb 16, 2012)

Awwwhhh Poor Sparta! I don't know how to help you, but I really hope he gets better!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

He definitely needs a heater. Im actually very surprised that he is still alive without one...


Hopefully you can get a space heater or something...ask your parents if they could get a space heater that could warm him up because he might die...they might be more sympathetic...


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

^+1. Heaters are definitely important, not only for growth, but for the fish's health. When they're in cold water, they're more prone to sickness and such because of the lowered immune system. I had a fry like this once around the same age, couldnt swim and would race to the top for air and fall back down. He was in warm water too but just became so unhealthy for some reason, I, unfortunately, had to cull him because he wouldnt have survived anyway


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

what is a space heater? :| also my parents have no money what so ever  the only thing i could think of is giving daily warm water into the tank.
i don't get money until 2 or 3 weeks (my birthday -.-) is there anything i could do until then??


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

A space heater is a small heater used to heat a room. He's stunted, sick, and doesn't have warm water. That's not good at all. Of course you should know temp swings are not good for fish so adding warm water isn't an option.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Do any of your other bettas have heaters in their tanks? You could put Sparta in a smaller plastic container and float this in one of your other tanks. That will at least partially stabilise the temperature of his water. 

Unfortunately, it sounds like the less than ideal care he received prior, is finally catching up with him. Fry sadly, are not very hardy and if they are not given proper care from day one, it can sometimes culminate further down the track.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

my parents dosen't want me to get heaters  so no, i will probably try to buy 2 heaters in 2 weeks.


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## Alienchick017 (Jul 11, 2011)

If you have a heating pad I've read of people turning them on the lowest setting and putting them partly under the tank. I don't know what kind of tank you have but if its to big to lift you could probably even put the heating pad against the side of it.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i don't even have a heating pad either D: this is a tank sparta is in (the pic is old, and it shows a couple of fries):








this is a better look of the tank:


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If you don't have heaters or money to buy supplies maybe you shouldn't be keeping fish. It's not a cheap hobby.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

How many bettas do you have besides Sparta?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What is the water temp, what size container do you have him in, how much and how often are the water changes, additives used, any live plants, is the top of the container covered with anything, what kind of food have you been offering....to understand this is Betta you spawned????correct.....about how old is he......if you already have a heated tank-float him in a small container with plastic wrap over the top in the heated tank-be sure and attach it so it doesn't sink.....if you have any live food-like mosquito larva or daphnia...offer them.....


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

as i said i have 6, i do not have a thermometer no more because it was connected to the breeder tank that i was using. i am giving him heat by the lamp (makes heat) and be able to buy a heater, filter, etc. i change water every next day, warm water. i have him/her in a half gallon (too small for just a gallon) he/she hatched on 2011 thanksgiving which was November, 24, 2011. my brother now will share his FBL now (anything i could do with that?), am still checking for frozen BBS (no luck) and "yes" sparta is from (my) DTxVT spawn , parents from (seperate petstores, both separate PETCOs) i still have my radiator blasting (isn't much working) should i put sparta next to the radiator till 10 days? and Mr.Vampire, i have might not said am NOT allowed to have a heater where they wanted me to place sparta (i would've gotten it sooner) and sorry if your irritated by my cries of need, sorry i couldn't get things for my fish earlier (that dearly love, and there like my medication i have been needing for years, am not going into details) OFL it is still too cold for any insects still (becoming warmer, not yet ready) my brother has some freeze-dried daphina, anything at all could be use?

sorry if i sounded quite rude, am just felt sunked after what Mr.V said, so i felt too depressed to ever come back online. i told bettamas to contacted this forum to say i wasn't gonna come on for awhile, since i had a great day i felt like i could come back on again. and i understand what Mr.V said i just wanted some time to be alone. (i'll finish this message later)


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

betta lover1507 said:


> as i said i have 6, i do not have a thermometer no more because it was connected to the breeder tank that i was using. i am giving him heat by the lamp (makes heat) and be able to buy a heater, filter, etc. i change water every next day, warm water. i have him/her in a half gallon (too small for just a gallon) he/she hatched on 2011 thanksgiving which was November, 24, 2011. my brother now will share his FBL now (anything i could do with that?), am still checking for frozen BBS (no luck) and "yes" sparta is from (my) DTxVT spawn , parents from (seperate petstores, both separate PETCOs) i still have my radiator blasting (isn't much working) should i put sparta next to the radiator till 10 days? and Mr.Vampire, i have might not said am NOT allowed to have a heater where they wanted me to place sparta (i would've gotten it sooner) and sorry if your irritated by my cries of need, sorry i couldn't get things for my fish earlier (that dearly love, and there like my medication i have been needing for years, am not going into details) OFL it is still too cold for any insects still (becoming warmer, not yet ready) my brother has some freeze-dried daphina, anything at all could be use?
> 
> sorry if i sounded quite rude, am just felt sunked after what Mr.V said, so i felt too depressed to ever come back online. i told bettamas to contacted this forum to say i wasn't gonna come on for awhile, since i had a great day i felt like i could come back on again. and i understand what Mr.V said i just wanted some time to be alone. (i'll finish this message later)


Sorry if my post came off as rude.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

it's ok, i forgive you


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Is there any change in Sparta's behavior? I really do fear that he has something wrong like my one fry did and won't get better  My little dude was like that for a month and a half before I decided to euthanize him, I tried everything but I couldnt help him..


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

no, not better nor worse


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. I wish I lived nearer to you so I could help somehow.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

thanks tpocicat


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

How old is sparta. Any change?

He sounds to be suffering a lot for such a young fry.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

he/she is 3 months, actually got a bit bigger, it is soo hot here his water temp still warm it isn't cold nor hot (in the water), it is not even spring yet!!


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Well thats good..Try doing some brine shrimp again since its warm!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

For fry, I suggest finding high protein foods. Live foods can help (be warned some carry illnesses you don't want so be careful where you get them!), frozen foods, etc will work. That'll help with the fact he is so darn small.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

the only thing frozen i have are bloodworms


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

betta lover1507 said:


> he/she is 3 months, actually got a bit bigger, it is soo hot here his water temp still warm it isn't cold nor hot (in the water), it is not even spring yet!!


That's great. Was there any improvement? Is he swimming okay?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That is good  freeze dried or actual frozen? actual frozen works =D I had to use frozen/fry food/crushed adult food for itty bitty Sarah and Suzi.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

no actual frozen blood worms, i think my little brother has freeze-dried daphina though :| but he isn't doing much, no improvement on him, just size


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, size is better than nothing  Suzie was not very active but she grew a little bit - which was better than nothing!!


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

sparta hardly ever swims, and dosen't really eat


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

aww 

have you tried dipping food into garlic juice? (minced garlic, the juice from it works)... or live foods. Mine'll go after what moves, and what smells good


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

About how big is he literally?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

still around this size


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Now I hate to be the one to ask this.

Betta lover1507: Please don't take it as I am saying just get it over with. Sparta is a very stunted fry and from the sounds of it...doesn't seem like he's going t make it regardless.

Since he is still that tiny, it would only be right to cull him now before he suffers any longer. Wouldn't you think it is better to do than to sit around waiting for him to grow and eat and make you even more sad everyday with many other family and outside problems going on as well.

Yes. I have to admit Sparta seems like a trooper, but really he sounds like he won't make it soon. With the cold water and then warm water, not eating correctly, swimming problems, ect.

He has gone through a bunch and I am surprised as such a tiny fry he lived through all of this.

You are doing your best, but to my understanding, you honestly have no way of getting him to live and have the energy to be the spunky betta he sure is at heart.

If I was in your shoes I would see that culling him would be best to get him out of this constant suffering state. Then in the future when you are able to care for a spawn...heck...go for it.

You know that we can always help out with a bunch of things. I'm sure you can get the hang of it in the future.

Again this is not meant to offend you or to bring you down. I actually am aiming for this to be a learning experience.

I hope you consider it. I've heard many ways of culling fry and usually they are easy with small fish like this.

Best regards from me.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Agreed ^ He'll either go on his own or he'll remain stunted and lethargic for the rest of his life.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i understand,but if you read my signature i won't be breeding betta's no more...


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

betta lover1507 said:


> i understand,but if you read my signature i won't be breeding betta's no more...


I wasn't meaning to discourage you from EVER breeding bettas.

Though I was just implying overall...Do you feel you can cull Sparta? Sparta is a strong fry, but from the sounds of it will die a suffering death. It is one of the responsibilities of breeding bettas and very important.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

no i just no longer allowed to breed betta's no more  because i wanted a bird. and no i don't think i could D: he has been with me soo long


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

But he is going to suffer more with the situation he is in. And with a bird there im not sure much of your attention is going to be directed to him.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If he is suffering, maybe it is time to humanely euthanise.

I am currently facing the same situation with 8 or so fry who didn't have proper nutrition, picked up internal parasites, and were exposed to persistent low levels of ammonia during the first few weeks of life.

They are still severely stunted at around 6 months, and it is obvious they will never thrive in spite of my now fastidious cleaning and feeding regime. One of my biggest has now come down with dropsy and I found two dead fry the other day. 

I am thinking I might just save the only almost grown fry and cull the rest. It is obvious they have suffered the effects from their early bad start, and I think it's kinder to end it than to watch their numbers slowly dwindle.

It's a very hard decision to make, but if the quality of life isn't there (Spartan doesn't swim much, doesn't eat much and is much much smaller than he should be at this point in his development), it might be time to do the responsible thing and euthanise.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

culling is a big and essential job for breeders  if you need to, you need to. you ddi your best and you tried very hard for the little guy. it's up to you!


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I know it is a very hard step to take. But if you can't keep him in consistant warm, clean water, he won't be happy or thrive.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i don't know right now. am thinking.


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

How's Sparta?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

he seems to be doing a bit better. and a bit bigger as well...


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Well thats good! keep us updated if he gets even better


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

ok i will


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

ok i put him/her in a smaller container so it would be easier for sparta to get air, and am going to try to hatch the BBS again.


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

You've already gotten the advice I would give. If you can't get him in heated water you should either rehome him to someone who can (but honestly if he is that small still at 3 months...) or cull him. I know you love him but he is just suffering and I'm sure you don't want that. 

The reason he is not moving much or eating much is because his water is cold. Fish are cold blooded so they need heat to maintain life. His body is shutting down b/c he can't get the warmth that he needs. He will not get any better in this situation. You will just watch him die sooner than later I'm afraid.


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

On your sig, BL, I just realized you have a new snake and two new cockatiels...Why didnt you buy supplies for Sparta instead of getting new pets? :S


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Very good Point.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

How is Sparta doing? I saw you bought a betta off aquabid, so I'm guessing he's doing well enough now?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

he is getting better, not hiding as much as sparta used to, i put him next to the radiator and he/she is warming up, but not burning. i just removed the pebbles so sparta won't get stuck in between, rather be safe than sorry. i also put him/her back into the half gallon for space, he/she is getting more noticeable (i mean he/she is getting a bit bigger and becoming to look more of a betta)


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh that's good, do you have any new photos of him?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

and the birds where 2 weeks ago for a gift, because i told my parents i wanted ONE!! i ended up having two, gahh!!
the snake is a family pet, i just added him in because i felt like it. and as i said there in more focus on snakes then my fish. and i ain't worried for sparta for a heater right now, because my room is like aroun 89 degrees or something, the warmest room in the house. and everyone is warm in there (am in my parents room right now)
not yet, i'll try to get them later or tomorrow


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

okay i got a thermometer (temporary) and sparta's temperature is 82.2 degree's
and everyone else is 79-80 degree's


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Excellent!  Good to know they're nice n toasty


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

lol thanks. i had to go to the dentist, and i just came back it was at 84 is that okay?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

The temp is getting a little on the high side. When breeding 85 us usually the highest recommended temp. They can stand more, but our goal is to keep them comfortable.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

k, thanks tpocicat


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