# Cherry Barb



## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

When I brought Tagawa (my first betta) home it was after a long consult with the guy at the pet store. He was very helpful, and we spent a good long while establishing the size of my tank (15 UK gallons), and the other occupants (wood shrimp, cherry barbs and black neons). 

He was clear that with a well planted tank of that size, with plenty of shelter and space, the community should work. They are all peaceful community fish, although not as peaceful as ember and neon tetras.

And he was right.

For the last 3 months the tank has been an active but peaceful place. The neons have hung around, the cherry barbs frisked about, everyone ignored the shrimp, and Tagawa grooved around as King of the Tank with everyone ignoring *him*.

Until a few days ago, when Big Red, the biggest of the 3 male cherry barbs started rampaging. I think one or more of the lady barbs has eggs. Big Red’s natural friskiness has turned into that of a rampaging musth elephant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth

Suddenly, in a single day, he started chasing everything, barb ladies, black neons, Tagawa... only the shrimp weren’t bothered.

2 days later, Tagawa’s fins had 5 splits in them, and everyone was hiding in the plants - except Big Red, patrolling the open area like a great white shark., and running lightening fast forays into the plants trying to flush out a lady friend, but chasing anything that moved.

A bit of reading online, and it turns out that every shoal of cherry barbs has a dominant male, and when the sex hormones rise, he chases all the other boys off - except that in Big Red’s case, he has been chasing EVERYBODY as if someone lit a fire under his tail.

So today I hoiked him out and put him in Kham’s tank. Just the two of them, Kham the betta, and Big Red.
So far (6 hrs) they have completely ignored each other and just glass surfed (mainly Big Red who is obsessed with the big red cherry barb he can see in the mirror) and plant swam, and patrolled. It is as if he and Kham they can’t see each other. Long may it continue! Not sure what I will do if he starts on Kham, since I don’t have another tank he could move to.

I’m hoping that once the barb ladies have egged, and Big Red calms down enough, he can go back in with the others, even if he has to be removed for ‘time out’ every time the ladies get frisky...

Oh, and as for Tagawa and the rest? They came out of hiding within 10 mins of Big Red’s exit, and the tank is once more a happy one. None of the other male cherry barbs are showing any sign of ‘musth’. So far.


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## Lunatic (Jan 23, 2018)

I don't normally recommend any tank mates for bettas, but I very rarely would suggest nano fish, shrimp, or snails as betta tankmates.

Cherry barbs are not the nippiest type of barb, they are more peaceful than some others, but they still are very capable of being a bully, especially when not kept in a large enough school.
They can be actively chasing or nipping the others when they have eggs, or around normal breeding time as well.

The tank you have them in is a bit small, since you have two schools of fish, it generally is not recommended to do two schools in anything smaller than a 40 gallon tank, unless the fish are nano.

My advice would be to remove the betta from the barb tank, as it will only get worse down the road, and you a nipped betta is a stressed betta, which can quickly turn into a sick betta.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Good case of male dominance. I know in my African cichlid tank Every one has their own hide, and space When the tank heat rises 2 degrees all of them breed like rabbits. When the eggs are laid the male guards the nest and becomes the most aggressive creature on the planet. He will chase and attack any and all that get with in his space. Even females. In the tank you have the space for the barb becomes what ever he can see. Now you have 3 male barbs and you have removed the alpha male from the tank. There are two other males which will now try and claim dominance over the female and the eggs. In a larger and heavily planted tank that others can hide and get away you may not have this problem. And the reason for the attack on your betta is he is a larger threat and slower moving target. 
I also do not recommend barbs as betta tank mates. I also do not recommend tank mates for betta, although In my 5.5 gal tank Ben does have mystery snails as tank mates and Ben has accepted them and all is peaceful. But if I turn the heat up to the temperature that affects breeding I'm not real sure that Ben would not turn aggressive. That's why I keep the heat in his tank at 78 degrees year round. 

Now for my last recommendation, I know you'll love this. Get a bigger tank.some where around 40-55 gallon. More plants and more fish. Your mate will love ya for it. LOL


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Haha! Yes, a bigger tank is a dream. But it won’t happen for a while. More likely to get another smaller tank and move Tagawa out into it. But that wouldn’t solve Big Red’s aggression to everything else.

But it’ll be a while til a bigger tank arrives.

Will wait and see what happens over the next few days. It has been a lovely established tank for years, and by my calc Big Red is at least 7. Cherry barbs usually only live 4-7 years. And I’ve found a couple of interesting comments today about how they get more dominant with age. The last thing I want is to expose the rest of the tank to Big Red’s musth if this were to continue. 

I’ve been trying to read up on cherry barb breeding frequency, and they all talk about how separation of the sexes beforehand, and conditioning foods will trigger breeding. But neither of those have happened here.

The only major change I have implemented is the new Finnex light. So it is quite possible that was a trigger.
Certainly in the 7 years i’ve had cherry barbs and neons together, there has never been anything like this level of aggression. Actually, never been *any* aggression before.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

IME, most Betta do extremely well in community tanks. In 40 years+ of Betta-based community tanks I have had exactly five Betta that did best as solitary fish from the get-go and three that I can remember that were fine for a while and then had to be removed and live alone...this is out of probably 500+ Betta. 

So I have to disagree, based on experience, that Betta do best alone. I will caveat I have kept smaller Nano fish (egglayers) and only male Guppies with my Betta. I did not keep Betta in a community tanks housing species larger than they. As I do not generally care for livebearers (except male Guppies) I cannot speak with knowledge to those.

Cherry Barbs do well in tanks with the linear 24" footprint of a 15 gallon tank (Seriously Fish and other species profiles). Species profile sites mostly refer to footprint instead of gallons as tanks can be tall or long. Cherry Barbs are also extremely docile fish and good community choices but on the occasion when a fish has issues like Big Red, one must separate. This does not mean all male Cherry Barbs will act this way and does not eliminate them as good tank mates. Two shoals of Nano fish in a 15 footprint (or even a 10 gallon's 20" linear footprint) is also perfectly acceptable for Nano.

Keeping Betta in a community tank is a matter of personal choice and one should always, always have a back-up plan or tank at the ready should the Betta or someone like Big Red have issues. Unless you are as experienced a bluesamphire I would suggest one shoal at a time.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Wow. Thanks for the vote of confidence @RussellTheShihTzu. I must say that on days like this I still feel very much like a beginner.

I certainly know you (well, I do) get complacent. Very easy to think that just because things have been going well (Tagawa’s intro to the tank went delightfully smoothly and he’s been very happy up til now, in a rather wimpy non flaring way). But that always ends up biting you (me) in the behind.

Tomorrow I will do some research on single sex groups of cherry barbs. I came across quite a Few mentions of it as an option today, and I will look into it further. Could be a very simple solution to split the current shoal into boys in Kham’s tank and girls in with Tagawa. 

But I won’t make any rapid decisions.
My experience of single sex groups (particularly rats and dogs) is that someone always takes charge, and someone is always at the bottom of the heap - regardless of x or Y chromosomes.


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