# Cruel Etsy seller selling "wine bottle" tanks for bettas



## melonette (Feb 13, 2014)

Hi everyone. I created this account and made this first post to reach out to you all regarding an Etsy seller who is selling a wine bottle "tank" for bettas:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/1507213...gn=glass_low&gclid=CNfDuZb7x7wCFUxp7AodqmYAAw

This is very cruel and should not be an item for sale! I have sent a message to the Etsy seller, letting him know that bettas need horizontal space to swim. Proper filtration and a heater will be very difficult to set up here since the space is very small. 

It makes me cry when I saw this item for sale  Please help me reach out to the seller. Send him a message (create an account/login with facebook and "ask a question") and let him know that this is not a proper way to keep a betta fish.

Thank you so much, and I hope nobody bought this sad "tank" so far


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

Ok now I'm angry that is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. He states that bettas have need yet lets put them in a little tank with no room! I'm gona do more than message.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, these have been up a few times over the last year. Make sure to be polite when advising them, anger and yelling will get you no where with people  Just inform them that, as you did so well, Bettas need horizontal space and at the least they need a gallon of water and heater to thrive, not survive.


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## Ravaari (Feb 5, 2014)

eatmice2010 said:


> He states that bettas have need yet lets put them in a little tank with no room!


I feel like he is victim of rumors that many betta owners hear, such as the whole "they come from shallow, stagnant waters, so they don't need filters or anything" (I fell for it when I first got a betta, but got a better tank afterwards)
A lot of people also read that bettas just sit around and don't swim a lot, so they don't really think about room to swim as part of the tank.

It is a lovely idea, but not very practical...


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I have sent letters to a couple of etsy stockists that do this sort of thing. it helps if you advise them of alternatives. I did see one bottle I couldnt be too angry at- it was made out of a massive bottle (the sort you buy for parties or to sit in a bar) and the mouth of the bottle was turned into a flip top so it could be cleaned and acessed easier. I try to recommend they do things like that instead so they can keep sales.
Remember that it may be inhumane, but many people rely on etsy stores to make a living- getting them to change stock is more likely than them closing the store


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

What is etsy? 

This is my favorite line "Bettas can get as old as two years, which, in fish years, is pretty impressive!" If they think 2 years is long in fish year, that's pretty scary.... How long do they think most fish are supposed to live. :-(


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Etsy is like ebay but different. They sell a lot of handmade crafts- I liken it to a virtual craft fair


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

This person has posted before, it's all the same pictures. So if that gives you an idea; this person isn't going to stop and it's exactly the same information as well even though we've informed him before. As I said, just remember to be polite; kindness kills


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

People don't want to appear "stupid"or "uneducated", and if enough people email this person saying "hey, I just wanted to let you know that your information is wrong." They may change their their tune.


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

This reminds me of a post I made on Tumblr about terrible fish bowls that ended up getting really popular...the "bottle tank" is one of them.


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

I think my biggest peeve is that they state "A wonderful addition to wedding table and party centerpieces."

All too many times I have women coming into my work place saying they want to place an order for 30+ bettas to have as centre pieces in a wedding or at a shower. I ask them "What will happen to the fish once the event is over?" 
The most common response is "I don't know. Can I return them?"

FISH ARE NOT DECORATIONS YOU CAN JUST RENT OUT AND RETURN!

I tell them that bettas have needs beyond living in a little bowl in the centre of a table, and unless they could care for each and every one of their needs for each and every one of the fish, I would not order any for them. I give them a pamphlet of "Betta Basics" that I've made for the store and sent them on their way.


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## Morguex (Oct 24, 2013)

Good on you Sathori 

You would think any pet store that actually cares about the fish they sell would get a little suspicious of someone ordering 30 plus bettas. Anyone with a grain of sense must realize they are not ordering that many bettas to take home as pets.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Sathori a similar incident happened to me on pinterest. I typed in a search for bettas and a handful of pins of betta centerpieces popped up. I commented on them as gently as i could and one lady replied saying i had nothing to worry about.

I again gently replied and listed off where they come from and the living conditions one would have in the wild.

I am happy to announce she deleted the offhand remarks from her post and thanked me, saying she would be informing her wedding planner of what I said


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's great news Taeanna! Love stories like that, you know, when people actually think haha. I'm glad you do that as well Sathori, makes me feel better about the world.

As for the wine bottles and stuff, it could be worse :-/ they could have no care of Betta's at all! But yes, let's just hope that this person comes to his/her sense...again...and at least improves the care section they have. This seller had done the same exact thing last year and last year we did the same exact thing, hostile message at first and calmer ones later; they responded to the calmer ones and did take it down but obviously they thought they were out of the muck and in the clear here lol


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I think these tank ideas are really pretty. I like these set ups to display for like a short dinner party or a photograph but bettas should still have a decent home.

I wish they'd at least market these as extra props. I wouldn't feel bad about buying them then.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I agree with you Vergil ^_^ If I had a Wine glass big enough, I would actually use that for photo shoots as well. Although I find regular glass small cubes to work a little better since the rounded edges won't distort the fish too much. They are cute though, but yes, not for a permanent home


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## ovukelj (Nov 12, 2013)

Cari said:


> This reminds me of a post I made on Tumblr about terrible fish bowls that ended up getting really popular...the "bottle tank" is one of them.


You made that?! That was freaking hilarious! The woman with the stop-sign.....Oh, priceless! And who would put their fish in a lightbulb....? Sigh.

I think we all need to realize something here. This person is actually making a _good_ amount of money from this. Yes, it's cruel to the bettas, but do you think they care? Do you think they're gonna stop? Definitely not. No emails and letters are going to make them stop if the person is making a lot of profit off of it. Just look at the things companies like Petco can get away with selling.

I'm in no way advocating this (it makes me sick to see bettas in vertical ANYTHING), but some of you are overreacting a bit. It happens. You can't change it. They're not doing anything illegal, it's not worth it to get into a big fuss about it. I don't know, I feel like there are bigger problems in the world to worry about. But, I digress.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> I agree with you Vergil ^_^ If I had a Wine glass big enough, I would actually use that for photo shoots as well. Although I find regular glass small cubes to work a little better since the rounded edges won't distort the fish too much. They are cute though, but yes, not for a permanent home


The wine glass sounds really fancy. If I had a decent camera I'd love to make greeting cards with my fish in them. 

From this perspective, maybe if we approached the sellers and told them we liked the idea for these containers for photos/temporary displays they could market their products accordingly.

We don't really hate these items - we hate that they're marketed to new owners as potential permanent homes.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's a good idea Vergil, always love a different perspective.

Oooh greeting cards! That would be absolutely adorable! Totally finding my larger wine glass tonight to see if I can make anything good haha.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I would actually pay good money if I was a breeder to get a fancy label that matched my fish- imagine a lovely red rosetail with pictures of a red wine bottle? or a lovely light yellow one in a champagne glass.

Commissions anyone? One universal in this world is what people wont change for humanitarian reasons they will certainly change for monetary incentive. Just ask any pollution activist how businesses respond to cleaner energy concerns


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

Not for a fish but these would look AWESOME as a live plant only jar.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I hope you find a nice glass. I really hate stressing my fish but if it's during cleaning time when they're supposed to be out of their tanks anyway, I'd love to get the chance to interact with them more - like with my dog or my rabbit. ^_^


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

peachii said:


> Not for a fish but these would look AWESOME as a live plant only jar.


That's true too! Easy to light as well and you could totally put baby tears in there with an NPT style of course! Maybe a little shrimp as well! Although, do shrimp need shoals or would one be fine alone? Never asked that question before! lol

Hmmm, my gears are turning now! I've got a few empty wine bottles around! I think the larger bottles would be better for that idea though, not the standard skinny ones as I think this seller is posting, either way though it'd be so cute!


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

As Taeanna says, I really doubt angry letters will dissuade people out for $$. Plus, browsing yahoo answers and the internet at large, there will always be lazy people who will insist that bettas prefer tiny bowls as this is more convenient for them.


We can either like the idea and the sellers add disclaimers saying it's not intended as a fish home or we can have DIY instructions for more interesting photos so people can make these set ups themselves and not have to buy. 

Of course, stressing the temporary set up/props part of it.


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## ovukelj (Nov 12, 2013)

Taeanna said:


> Commissions anyone? One universal in this world is what people wont change for humanitarian reasons they will certainly change for monetary incentive. Just ask any pollution activist how businesses respond to cleaner energy concerns


It seems like there is already a big market for these betta homes. Most people don't care if they're cruel permanent homes since they look nice. All I'm saying is that it's wishful thinking trying to get these people to change their income to suit the needs of some angry fish lovers. You have a point, people won't change unless money is involved, however, I don't see a solid alternative to what they're doing without losing profit. My question is, why waste time making a big deal about it if the person isn't going to change?

After I watched a video of hundreds of male baby chicks being "euthanized" (AKA being instantaneously shredded in a meat shredder because male chicks have no place in the market), I've given up on trying to change cruelties in the world. Unless you have a large mass or supporting (or lots of money) behind you, it's tough to get anywhere. I suggest you guys start some sort of petition or something like that.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Lil I found this quick link to a glass cutting technique. http://www.guidecentr.al/how-to-cut-a-glass-bottle/CUFk3OuSii

Also I would like to see the really huge bottles that are sold to be displayed in bars and man caves would be a lovely addition to a party area or built in bar in someones home- plus those bottles are big enough to fit a fish happily. I recall a friend's family had a 10 liter bottle they kept in their house. thats a whole 2.5G! or a glass keg....or a really fancy cognac bottle....if I was craftier i would be thinking about showing them what a nice fishy home can look like without harming the poor baby.


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## Chipl (Jan 20, 2014)

The only fish I would keep in this would be a robo fish. NOT a real fish.


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## cheekysquirrel (Jan 7, 2014)

Chipl said:


> The only fish I would keep in this would be a robo fish. NOT a real fish.


And even the robo fish would be miserable in that tiny space ;-)


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## Chipl (Jan 20, 2014)

I also hate the vases with a plant in them that are sold as complete systems. The customers are told that they don't need to feed the fish at all. Bettas are carnivores.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Taeanna said:


> Lil I found this quick link to a glass cutting technique. http://www.guidecentr.al/how-to-cut-a-glass-bottle/CUFk3OuSii


Yup! I would use the regular string method where you paint it with clear nail polish and heat it that way, it's easier to gauge  But I think I'm totally going to do this with the plant idea!


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## isochronism (Nov 24, 2012)

"When we go to Heaven our Pets will be there waiting, then it will be their turn to treat us the way we treated them" - John Steinbeck


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

you haven't seen the "stripper shoe" masquerading as a betta bowl yet apparently. Also on etsy.


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## lovee1795 (Jan 28, 2014)

This seller has a ton of "tanks" just like this one. It's sad, really..

Also, I find this little blog explains things perfectly.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Cari said:


> This reminds me of a post I made on Tumblr about terrible fish bowls that ended up getting really popular...the "bottle tank" is one of them.


The tanks shown r all horrible, but lightbulb tank is insane! How in the world are the poor fishies suppose 2 get fed, grow, or even swim in there.... And 2 of them at that????


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## Kylelouis929 (Mar 10, 2014)

Yes! I was lurking on Etsy a few weeks ago for perhaps a nice habitat for a future betta and saw that and got sick to my stomach! :-(


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

aselvarial said:


> you haven't seen the "stripper shoe" masquerading as a betta bowl yet apparently. Also on etsy.


U mean this thing? That is made from an actual shoe. & features "hand painted plants for that aquarium look"? This seller has got 2 b kidding me!! Seriously??


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## Kylelouis929 (Mar 10, 2014)

That is absolutely TERRIBLE. These people should be punished.


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## Kylelouis929 (Mar 10, 2014)

And the fact they had to paint the plants onto the "shoe" is even more sad! Not even a plastic plant!


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

My thoughts exactly!! The poor guy in the pic has no hide outs in that sorry piece of tank.... If u could even call it that! A freaking shoe is NO place 4 a living being, even a fish! What was the creator of this "tank" even thinking????? Ugh.... Stupid, stupid, cruel ppl!


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## Kylelouis929 (Mar 10, 2014)

It's actually insane! How about we put her in a shoe!


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Yes PoissonsMom, that is the shoe I meant. I saw it and initially thought "oh how cute, she painted a betta on the shoe". Until I actually read it. And realized you were supposed to put a LIVE fish in there. I'm not even sure how one would fit in that tiny hole to get in. How would you feed the betta, or clean it out? With a painted betta, it would be cute, for a real betta, it's just like a tiny aquatic tomb.


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## Dakieda (Mar 3, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup! I would use the regular string method where you paint it with clear nail polish and heat it that way, it's easier to gauge  But I think I'm totally going to do this with the plant idea!


And then post it on etsy with a disclaimer and put the other bottle tank maker out business?


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

here is my ting about this, all of us here on bettafish.com see things like this and are outraged about what there people are doing and some of us, not me will go to seaworld and watch the orca shows and think it's acceptable or the elephant at the zoo in a tiny concrete enclosure, and before anyone says it, NO it's not different if anything it worse due to the intelligence of elephants and whales dolphins. I obviously am not one of the people who think it's bad to own animals and keep them as pets but some can be kept some can't and this doesn't matter if you are a person or a large company, and with any animal we keep it is our job to do are best to take care of them and give them the best homes we can, and to admit to and do the right thing when we can't.


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## Dakieda (Mar 3, 2014)

Stone said:


> here is my ting about this, all of us here on bettafish.com see things like this and are outraged about what there people are doing and some of us, not me will go to seaworld and watch the orca shows and think it's acceptable or the elephant at the zoo in a tiny concrete enclosure, and before anyone says it, NO it's not different if anything it worse due to the intelligence of elephants and whales dolphins. I obviously am not one of the people who think it's bad to own animals and keep them as pets but some can be kept some can't and this doesn't matter if you are a person or a large company, and with any animal we keep it is our job to do are best to take care of them and give them the best homes we can, and to admit to and do the right thing when we can't.


The difference is though, that zoos and parks like that have certain specifications and rules that they are required to follow in order to keep those animals, and stay open. Companies that make these small aquariums, and then refusing to properly educate beginning aquarists, DONT. These companies [or in the case of this thread, wannabe aquarium creator] are doing a diservice to aquarists around the world, while promoting unsatisfactory living conditions for the poor fish, whose owners are simply misinformed. 

And in my own opinion, it is poor business on their part in the first place. I mean think about it. 1 gallon per every inch of fish. Goldfish grow to 6" in length, but get put in bowls all the time. A 1 gallon bowl cost anywhere between $5 or $10 depending on the kind. Now, compare that to the price of a 5 gallon which costs $30-$50 or more. Add in the the fact that you may want a second fish, so a 10 gal is needed. When you properly inform beginning aquarists of the fishes needs, you will make more profit because many fish need larger habitats than what the companies are marketing. So really, what are they thinking, what is the point of making these virtually profitless setups, when they could go bigger. Also, it would get fish into better homes, because a person who doesnt wanna invest the money, probably wouldnt wanna invest the time either.

Shwew. And uh, yea. Sorry for that....rant LOL


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Technically the inch per gallon rule people do not agree on it is a man made rule and a mere guide an inch per gallon for a betta would work far better than for a goldfish or a pleco, goldfish and plecos are rather "dirty" compared, and I can argue you can keep any fish in as small of a tank as it takes to keep them wet with enough filtration and airation of the water, there is a difference between giving an animal the bare minimum to survive and giving them a habitat they can thrive in, I could keep a person in a 3x3 closet and feed them 2 times a day and clean out the closet 1-2 times a week and they could survive so I could say yep that's the rule so anyone who wants to keep a human that is all you need, they won't thrive, but yeah surviving is good enough. see how easy it is to make up a rule


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## Dakieda (Mar 3, 2014)

Stone said:


> Technically the inch per gallon rule people do not agree on it is a man made rule and a mere guide an inch per gallon for a betta would work far better than for a goldfish or a pleco, goldfish and plecos are rather "dirty" compared, and I can argue you can keep any fish in as small of a tank as it takes to keep them wet with enough filtration and airation of the water, there is a difference between giving an animal the bare minimum to survive and giving them a habitat they can thrive in, I could keep a person in a 3x3 closet and feed them 2 times a day and clean out the closet 1-2 times a week and they could survive so I could say yep that's the rule so anyone who wants to keep a human that is all you need, they won't thrive, but yeah surviving is good enough. see how easy it is to make up a rule


I was speaking plainly in the theoretical sense. But either way your still technically agreeing with what I'm saying, smaller spaces = not optimal = less profit for companies who market these bowls, when they could just say "you need a larger size for this fish, spend more money on it."


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

well trust me the profit on those bottles they got for free, cut, and glued magnets to are far greater than the profits someone will get for a tank 10 gallons and under (without filter/heater/and so on) you could almost buy 3 dollar per gallon 10 gallon tanks for the price of one of those bottles, this is not about money or profits, it's about doing the right thing for the animal.My nano tanks price ranges from $10-$99 I never once thought about how much they cost (other than if I could afford it) or the profits I thought about if it was a suitable home for fish/shrimp and if I liked it's "looks" and btw the real money for most companies is the stuff you have to buy over and over water conditioner/fish meds/filter cartridges/ specialty lightbulbs (fluval is good for that)


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

Dakieda said:


> I was speaking plainly in the theoretical sense. But either way your still technically agreeing with what I'm saying, smaller spaces = not optimal = less profit for companies who market these bowls, when they could just say "you need a larger size for this fish, spend more money on it."


Sadly, I think that in the business world the thought process is that if the average _goldfish-for-a_-_bowl_ / _betta-for-a-tiny-cold-dirty-vase_ buying public were told they needed a more expensive set-up, many of them would probably just shrug and say, oh, forget about it, and *buy nothing*. Which, in our opinion, would be GREAT. But, in the corporate philosophy? Not a good thing...


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

2muttz said:


> Sadly, I think that in the business world the thought process is that if the average _goldfish-for-a_-_bowl_ / _betta-for-a-tiny-cold-dirty-vase_ buying public were told they needed a more expensive set-up, many of them would probably just shrug and say, oh, forget about it, and *buy nothing*. Which, in our opinion, would be GREAT. But, in the corporate philosophy? Not a good thing...


I have 2 agree w/ 2muttz.... If the general consumer was informed that a more expensive set-up 4 their fish 2 thrive, they would likely back out & buy absolutely nothing. Spending more money is either an inconvenience, or they r getting the fish for their kid (assume their kid will get bored quickly & just let it die anyway). That's how ppl think, unfortunately... The business world thrives on both uneducated ppl & parents "teaching responsibility" with a pet. So sad....


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## Dakieda (Mar 3, 2014)

I dont know how it would make sense to *anybody* to put a fish in .5 gallons of water anyways, theories aside. Thats like a soda bottle. Putting your fish in a soda bottle! >.<;


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Dakieda said:


> I dont know how it would make sense to *anybody* to put a fish in .5 gallons of water anyways, theories aside. Thats like a soda bottle. Putting your fish in a soda bottle! >.<;


I can understand doing so on a temporary basis, like quarantine, jarring, an emergency (like cracked tank), or a cross-country move (we filled a gallon milk jug 1/2 full, stuck a straw thru lid 4 air, put him in a sturdy box we stuffed w/ towels so water temp wouldn't fluctuate 2 much... 3 days l8r, he was back in his regular tank, unscathed ). However, for vendors 2 actively promote small "tanks" that hold very little water, have little or no "decor", and barely enuf room 4 the poor fishies 2 turn around is utterly disgusting! Tell me... How is it that Animal Rights advocacy groups, like Greenpeace & PETA, get upset when the president kills a fly on national tv (resulting in a gift of a humane fly trap), but they don't have anything 2 say about shoes, wine bottles & lightbulbs being sold as "MUST HAVE" fish tanks?!? C'mon....really? A bug has more rights than a fish, that sits higher in the food chain?? Flies r pesky pests & fish are pets, right?? There's something seriously wrong w/ this, IMO!!! <sorry 4 my lil rant.... But I'm very perturbed by this)


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

The thing is, a 10 gallon tank at walmart is only $12. The little "betta cube" that was 1/3rd of a gallon, was $10. Sure, you have to buy a lid for a betta with the 10 gallon, but worst comes to worst, slap a screen on it. Our walmart carries a screen for a 10 gallon for under $8. So $20 for a 10 gallon as opposed to $10 for a 1/3rd gallon cube. Even IF they decide not to heat/filter it in the 10 gallon, I guarantee the betta will live longer in an unfiltered, unheated 10 gallon than it will in an unheated unfiltered 1/3rd gallon. I saw one on Petco that was a 1/3rd gallon DIVIDED tank. meaning it had 1/6th of a gallon per fish! I'm like, how the hell? I change more than that on AB and LG's tanks every other day! EACH!


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

aselvarial said:


> The thing is, a 10 gallon tank at walmart is only $12. The little "betta cube" that was 1/3rd of a gallon, was $10. Sure, you have to buy a lid for a betta with the 10 gallon, but worst comes to worst, slap a screen on it. Our walmart carries a screen for a 10 gallon for under $8. So $20 for a 10 gallon as opposed to $10 for a 1/3rd gallon cube. Even IF they decide not to heat/filter it in the 10 gallon, I guarantee the betta will live longer in an unfiltered, unheated 10 gallon than it will in an unheated unfiltered 1/3rd gallon. I saw one on Petco that was a 1/3rd gallon DIVIDED tank. meaning it had 1/6th of a gallon per fish! I'm like, how the hell? I change more than that on AB and LG's tanks every other day! EACH!


A 1/3g divided tank?? WTF?!?! Petco should b ashamed of themselves 4 carrying something that small!!!! That even goes against the "1g/inch of fish" rule that so many ppl r suckered in2!! What's worse is these same buyers probably don't know about water params & proper conditioners, or the need 4 a heater, and probably don't care. I'm sure it's a relatively cheap option 4 ppl, esp since they can actually put 2 bettas in it, but.... C'mon!! I can only imagine how stressed 2 males would get in such cramped quarters, with no sight breaks! Ugh!! As much as I hate to admit this, cuz fighting them is very wrong, but I would rather see the buyers dump the 2 in the same tank, so their agonizing & inevitable demise isn't long & drawn out!!!! 2 me, torturing the poor guys in tiny little tombs, where all they can do is flare & wag at eachother, is far more cruel!!!!!


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

My whole point was it's not really that much more expensive to get a cheap 10 gallon than to get the cheap betta cubes. But the cubes are "cute" and a 10 gallon tank is still a 10 gallon tank. Maybe they need to come out with 2-3 gallon tanks that are "cute" but still semi-practical and relatively cheap (though ppl, women especially, pay more for 'cute')

And yes, I was kinda irritated at Petco. I'm gonna have to send them a letter seriously protesting that. In no world, is 1/6th of a gallon of water practical. Even IF they DID live in puddles, the puddles still would constantly get partially drained and refilled by evaporation and rain (not to mention the soil)


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

aselvarial said:


> My whole point was it's not really that much more expensive to get a cheap 10 gallon than to get the cheap betta cubes. But the cubes are "cute" and a 10 gallon tank is still a 10 gallon tank. Maybe they need to come out with 2-3 gallon tanks that are "cute" but still semi-practical and relatively cheap (though ppl, women especially, pay more for 'cute')
> 
> And yes, I was kinda irritated at Petco. I'm gonna have to send them a letter seriously protesting that. In no world, is 1/6th of a gallon of water practical. Even IF they DID live in puddles, the puddles still would constantly get partially drained and refilled by evaporation and rain (not to mention the soil)


Right! Puddles r a good comparison... But as u said, they evaporate, and replenish with every rainfall, and have plenty micro-organisms living in the water & soil. 
As far as ppl paying 4 cute... I have a 3.5g acrylic bow (my newest tank) and it's "cute". Lol... I think the whole kit cost like $29.99, but is perfect 4 a single fishy. I don't remember exactly, but I think I spent another $15-20 on plants, heater, gravel & ornaments (Spongebob... My lil man's choice ). Considering that we bought it as our 2yr old son's 1st aquarium, it was worth the investment. Yes, we could've gotten a 10g starter 4 the same price, but since it was meant 2 house a betta anyway, I really didn't feel the need 2 get anything larger.


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## aquafin (Feb 10, 2014)

I got curious so I searched fish tank on etsy....
http://www.etsy.com/listing/1606716...to=US&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

That's really pretty as *just a terrarium*.


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

aselvarial said:


> My whole point was it's not really that much more expensive to get a cheap 10 gallon than to get the cheap betta cubes. But the cubes are "cute" and a 10 gallon tank is still a 10 gallon tank. Maybe they need to come out with 2-3 gallon tanks that are "cute" but still semi-practical and relatively cheap (though ppl, women especially, pay more for 'cute')
> 
> And yes, I was kinda irritated at Petco. I'm gonna have to send them a letter seriously protesting that. In no world, is 1/6th of a gallon of water practical. Even IF they DID live in puddles, the puddles still would constantly get partially drained and refilled by evaporation and rain (not to mention the soil)


I digress. It's actually a lot cheaper (and when starting off, less time-consuming) to have a betta cube, or anything under a gallon really. Less substrate to buy, less decor to buy, you can't even fit a heater or filter so subtract those from the total, no gravel vac needed because there's no way to cycle...I'm sure there's more I can list, but I can't think of them atm. If you get a 10 gallon (or anything above 2 gallons for that matter) you'll have to buy all those things, and the cost can add up fast. Plus it's more of a pain to NOT cycle anything over 2 gallons, and cycling can be pretty time-consuming.

I'm not saying I agree with putting bettas in anything under 1 gallon (because I don't), but I can totally understand _why_ some people have zero interest in upgrading to bigger tanks and educating themselves. It's money and time and work. What we need is a way to convince people that all of that is worth it for the final outcome (beautiful tank, easy maintenance once the cycle is in place, and most importantly a damn happy fish).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Cari said:


> I'm not saying I agree with putting bettas in anything under 1 gallon (because I don't), but I can totally understand _why_ some people have zero interest in upgrading to bigger tanks and educating themselves. It's money and time and work. What we need is a way to convince people that all of that is worth it for the final outcome (beautiful tank, easy maintenance once the cycle is in place, and most importantly a damn happy fish).


+1 you've hit that spot on.

I do want to say though, it is possible to cycle a tank without a filter, it's just a lot harder and practically not even worth it. But, it is possible to cycle anything given time and patience.


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow, has anyone on here actually done that successfully, lilnaugrim? I didn't even know that was possible. I still have a lot to learn!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Cari said:


> Wow, has anyone on here actually done that successfully, lilnaugrim? I didn't even know that was possible. I still have a lot to learn!


I'm sure there has been ^_^ I can't recall anyone recently but I'm sure somewhere on here has done it before and lived to tell the tale haha.


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## BlueLacee (Dec 8, 2013)

things like this make me mad. Humans have problems when dogs or other animals live in these conditions, but all of a sudden when it is fish, it does not matter. Somethimes I am ashamed to be human


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## NanaBeams (Feb 24, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> +1 you've hit that spot on.
> 
> I do want to say though, it is possible to cycle a tank without a filter, it's just a lot harder and practically not even worth it. But, it is possible to cycle anything given time and patience.


I'm cycling an aquafarm 3 gallon that doesn't have a true filter. I just added sponges and biomax to certain places. It isn't done yet, but it is moving along.

I feel like people shouldn't even have fish if they aren't going to invest in proper care. This goes for any pet. 

I like those little glass containers, but only as marimo homes.  










This is my pet marimo.  I think I want to add lucky bamboo later.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

NanaBeams said:


> I'm cycling an aquafarm 3 gallon that doesn't have a true filter. I just added sponges and biomax to certain places. It isn't done yet, but it is moving along.
> 
> I feel like people shouldn't even have fish if they aren't going to invest in proper care. This goes for any pet.
> 
> ...


Ahaha! Love the face!!

Yeah, with the AquaFarm you can easily add a sponge filter right at the end of the tube; it doesn't _look_ great but it's doable. Or you could stick it in the back somewhere or even up in the tray where I hear there is water most of the time? I've never owned an AquaFarm but have been involved in threads about them before so I know a little bit about them ^_^

The plants themselves are fantastic places for the good bacteria to grow on, any surface actually. It's just that the bacteria prefer to settle in a place with faster moving water; hence why filters are generally the first place they colonize but given time, they will colonize on any and all surfaces with or without a filter in place!


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## NanaBeams (Feb 24, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ahaha! Love the face!!
> 
> Yeah, with the AquaFarm you can easily add a sponge filter right at the end of the tube; it doesn't _look_ great but it's doable. Or you could stick it in the back somewhere or even up in the tray where I hear there is water most of the time? I've never owned an AquaFarm but have been involved in threads about them before so I know a little bit about them ^_^
> 
> The plants themselves are fantastic places for the good bacteria to grow on, any surface actually. It's just that the bacteria prefer to settle in a place with faster moving water; hence why filters are generally the first place they colonize but given time, they will colonize on any and all surfaces with or without a filter in place!


Ironically, I went out and bought the elite mini filter today and just installed it in my aquafarm, because my ammonia was constantly stuck at 0.25 which makes me think that the water isn't circulating fast enough, even though I replaced the air pump. You are right! I did cut up a fluval prefilter sponge and stock one on the bottom of the tube and put filter rings around the drain holes in the upper water tray. I also stuck a tiny piece of filter sponge in the center tube as well. Now my aquafarm has so much sponge.. soo soo much sponge.. LOL


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

NanaBeams said:


> Ironically, I went out and bought the elite mini filter today and just installed it in my aquafarm, because my ammonia was constantly stuck at 0.25 which makes me think that the water isn't circulating fast enough, even though I replaced the air pump. You are right! I did cut up a fluval prefilter sponge and stock one on the bottom of the tube and put filter rings around the drain holes in the upper water tray. I also stuck a tiny piece of filter sponge in the center tube as well. Now my aquafarm has so much sponge.. soo soo much sponge.. LOL


Ahaha! Nice! I'm sure you will be fine with all that media space!


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