# Graphite Disease?? (pictures)



## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

I made a post about my concerns last week, (bloating, sinking or floating too much and acting weird generally), now he's turning grey/silver. I think he's going to die.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

How fast is it moving? Unfortunately that does look like the "graphite disease".


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

MattsBettas said:


> How fast is it moving? Unfortunately that does look like the "graphite disease".


My boyfriend thinks he might have been burned by an uncovered heater. I don't know if it's moving super fast, it still kind of looks like that, that's how I first noticed it and you can only see it when you put a light to him.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Keep an eye on him. If the gray increases quickly over the next 24 hours then it's the disease.


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## deforestfoley117 (Jun 17, 2013)

Some history on Winston. We have been treating him for swim bladder problems, put him in a 1 gallon tank to treat and just today this showed up. We check him every morning and every night and throughout the day so this is very sudden. I think he could have been burnt by his heater because it is a submersible one but we don't have any gravel in the tank. Does anyone know if methylene blue and furan-2 help?? Please some more opinions would surely help us out.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Fish getting burnt by heaters is very difficult when used properly. Boiled is different... Burnt though, from direct contact, is unheard of. 

If you want to try methylene blue and Furan 2 it won't hurt at this stage... I wouldn't be optimistic though. Hope it turns out for the best for you two.


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## deforestfoley117 (Jun 17, 2013)

MattsBettas said:


> Fish getting burnt by heaters is very difficult when used properly. Boiled is different... Burnt though, from direct contact, is unheard of.
> 
> If you want to try methylene blue and Furan 2 it won't hurt at this stage... I wouldn't be optimistic though. Hope it turns out for the best for you two.


*This is Coleaini on my bfs account;* The problem was the water got up to almost 90F and after I unplugged the heater was when we noticed the was a little grey, my first thought was the graphite disease then we thought maybe he'd been burned. I don't understand what you mean by boiled though, boiling point in water is 212F, his water temp was a little high but not that high.

I am almost certain he's got the disease after looking as some pictures of it.


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## deforestfoley117 (Jun 17, 2013)

Cole again, we changed his water in hopes it would help him, everything has proven to be very stressful for us and the fish. He is lying at the bottom of the tank now. It's not looking too good. If there is anyone that can help please, please don't hesitate to say something.


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## NorthernLights (Mar 2, 2012)

If it is the graphite disease, hitting it with kanaplex quickly may work. At least one person has said Triple Sulfa can also work, so if you cannot get kanaplex in time, you could try that.

If you can get him something to rest on near the water's surface, that may make him more comfortable.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

How is he acting otherwise? If you *don't* put a light on him, can you see the gray? With "Graphite disease," the fins turns a definite gray color. The color change is due to tissue death. It progresses very quickly up the fins. 

Does he have any other symptoms currently? Anything 'off' about him? Look at his body. Do you see any grayish colored regions (besides the big one on his tail?)

I looked back at both of your threads, and I see two that may apply to Winston. Are these about him?
-- Please help: bloated for a week and now laying on side at the bottom (pics)
-- Clamped Tails?

Unfortunately, no - methylene blue and furan will NOT save a fish that has Myco. If their fish got better using this, it was not infected with Myco. It had something else. (Possibly their fish had Columnaris. For that, both methylene blue and furan are highly effective.)

Unfortunately, Kanaplex (kanamycin sulfate) won't treat Myco, either. (In fact, if it's Myco, using antibiotics can actually help the bacteria grow. The antibiotics kill off the competing bacteria, giving the Myco access to nutrients it wouldn't have had otherwise.)

That said, we don't know for sure that it's _Mycobacterium spp_. The only way to identify it is via necropsy (fish autopsy) or culturing in a lab. _(Note to Matt: it appears that some strains of Myco don't always result in granulomas. They can only be ID'd via culturing the bacteria on plates.)_

TBH, I don't know what to recommend at this point, since I don't know what's causing the problem. Once you report back to us with answers to the above questions, maybe people will be able to tell you the next step.... Treating with medications has advantages - namely, it treats the disease. But it also has drawbacks - the liver and kidneys need to work overtime to metabolize and eliminate the medications. So, IMO, it's important to know what you're dealing with (or at least have a good idea of what it might be), in order to select the "correct course of treatment."

When I review the previous threads, I see two issues:
*1) Clamped fins.* This may have been caused by stress due to the addition of the shrimp. Did he get better after a few days of being with them? I didn't see any follow up posts, so did this improve?
*2) Bloating.* Did you try the Epsom salt that was recommended? His bloating/buoyancy issues may have been caused by the Aqueon pellets. They're a decent brand, but contain a lot of grains/fillers. I would try switching to either New Life Spectrum Betta pellets or Omega One Betta Buffet. Both are high-protein foods that bettas seem to tolerate well.

Also, I see that you have two Bettas. Be VERY careful about avoiding cross-contamination. Each fish should be in separate tanks, and have their own set of equipment. Wash your hands after handling working with each fish. Etc....


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> How is he acting otherwise? If you *don't* put a light on him, can you see the gray? With "Graphite disease," the fins turns a definite gray color. The color change is due to tissue death. It progresses very quickly up the fins.
> 
> Does he have any other symptoms currently? Anything 'off' about him? Look at his body. Do you see any grayish colored regions (besides the big one on his tail?)
> 
> ...


Yes this is about Winston.

He seemed scared and was trying to hide last night but was swimming...until we did a water change. Now he's staying completely at the bottom, now he seems to be lying on his side. -I noticed the grey before we shined a light on it but the light did help us to see it better. This started at 10.15 last night, it's been about 12 hours maybe 13 and my BF said that there is a possibility the grey is spreading out but doest seem to be speading up.

We are going to try the treatment to see if it helps. The clamped fins, we weren't completely sure if he had it but he seems fine a little later and the bloating did go down a little witht the Epsom treatment. We also changed the pellets! We asked about found out that the aqueon wasn't good and got the new life. 

We are being super careful with the other, hand washing and sanitizing right after no matter we do, even just kind of touching the tank.

Thank you so much for helping I will be back with more info in a few hours.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> How is he acting otherwise? If you *don't* put a light on him, can you see the gray? With "Graphite disease," the fins turns a definite gray color. The color change is due to tissue death. It progresses very quickly up the fins.
> 
> Does he have any other symptoms currently? Anything 'off' about him? Look at his body. Do you see any grayish colored regions (besides the big one on his tail?)
> 
> ...


We got Blue and Furan, however the petstore guy (local with specialty in fish) said to just use the blue, furan was hardcore. He advised to only using the one but showed us where furan was so we could use it at will.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Here is another photo, time and date is on each photo in this collage. It looks like it's spreading, it's been 12 hours between photos and he's been on the bottom of the tank since last night. We are going ahead with a water change and Methylene Blue. Our hopes aren't high but we're giving it all we have for Winston.










Edit: Added Blue at 12:13PM 4.8.14


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Lowered his water to about 3 inches and added in a little Furan (A LITTLE LITTLE, like less than a pinch a little) he's still on the bottom of the tank, kind of moving a pelvic fin a bit but not the other side. He's swam a little but it's looking bad.

We're mixed about everything. We don't want him to suffer but we don't want to put him down ourselves. That and we don't know if he is dying...like it's kind of obvious I think, but we aren't ready yet to accept it.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

How's he doing now?


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Kiara1125 said:


> How's he doing now?


Still at the bottom of the tank, mostly kind of on his side. I'm not sure what to think right now.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

*No! NEVER use 'just a pinch' of an antibiotic!!!*
This is how SUPERBUGS are created!

If you opt to use an antibiotic - *ALWAYS use the FULL amount of antibiotic, for the FULL treatment time!*

If you use less than this amount, or stop mid-treatment, only the most susceptible bacteria is killed. The remaining bacteria are resistant to the antibiotic. They multiply, creating a new strain that resists the antibiotic. The result is that when you really need to use the medication again, it will not be effective.

In fact, this is so important that I'm going to repeat it: Use the FULL amount of antibiotic for the FULL treatment cycle. Or, don't use any antibiotic at all.

Based on how he looks right now, I hate to say this, but it does look like "Graphite disease" to me. 

I would try *Kanaplex* (kanamycin sulfate), if you can get it. (Most petstores don't carry it, so it needs to be ordered online.) If you cannot get Kanaplex, then I would use a sulfa drug, such as *API Triple Sulfa*. (Do not use this if you are allergic to sulfa drugs.). If you can't get this, then try using the Furan 2 (with the full dosage amount).

At this point, as far as I've heard, it's not definitively known whether this fast moving "Graphite disease" is Mycobacterial illness or another disease. Myco is a "wasting illness," whereas this is fast moving. However, this may be a strain of Myco, so I would treat it as such. Better to be safe, than sorry. This means that you'll need to protect your other fish as well as yourselves.

Do not share any equipment or supplies between tanks. Wear gloves (latex or nitrile), and wash your hands after working with either of your tanks. (Myco can cause hard-to-cure skin infections in people.)

Hopefully, Winston will pull through.

However, I won't be online tonight, so I'm going to give you some information on what to do if he doesn't make it. I hope you won't need this, but....

If he doesn't survive, wrap his body in paper then put it into a Ziplock sandwich bag. (Or, you can burn his body, if you prefer.) Then, throw out anything porous (gravel, etc). For non-porous items: soak everything in 70% alcohol solution or HOSPITAL grade Lysol for at least 4 hours. (Regular store Lysol isn't strong enough. It needs to be Hospital grade.) Then wash everything with hot water. (Boiling water is even better, if the items can withstand it.) Put everything out in the sun to dry. (Sunlight's UV light is very effective at killing bacteria.) 

Sorry - I hated giving you this last bit of info, but I won't be online again for awhile.... I hope he pulls though, though!


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> *No! NEVER use 'just a pinch' of an antibiotic!!!*
> This is how SUPERBUGS are created!
> 
> If you opt to use an antibiotic - *ALWAYS use the FULL amount of antibiotic, for the FULL treatment time!*
> ...


Thank you so much for all of the help and advice. I have to say with pinch thing the instructions said one packet per 10 gallons and I did not want to overdose my fish. ALSO!!!

Some new info, the dead bits of his tail are coming off now. It's 10:20AM 4.9.14, my BF noticed it right before a water change. We are keeping up with the meds and I will give him more of the furan, I will try to cut it to be the correct dose.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

What size is your tank?

Since one packet treats 10 gallons, you can divide the packet if this is easy for you to do. (For example, a 5 gal tank requires half the packet.) Or you can dissolve the whole thing in water and use 1/10 for each gallon in your tank.

For example:
Dissolve 1 packet in 10 ounces of water. Then use 1 ounce for each gallon in your tank. 
1 gallon tank = use 1 ounce
2 gallon tank = use 2 ounces
3 gallon tank = use 3 ounces
Etc.

KEEP the remaining solution. Use it for partial water changes during the treatment period. To do this, fill a one gal jug with water that is within +/- 2 degrees F of his current tank water. Add 1 ounce of the medicated solution. Add conditioner. Shake/stir.

Then, remove the desired amount of water from his tank. Use the newly prepared solution for the water change. This will maintain a consistent dosage of medication during the treatment period.

When you mix up a new batch of medication for the next cycle (if needed), discard the old solution. It has a limited life-span, and won't be effective anymore.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Some new info, the dead bits of his tail are coming off now. His swim bladder has also gotten a lot better.

It's 10:20AM 4.9.14, my BF noticed it right before a water change. We are keeping up with the meds and I will give him more of the furan, but putting ten tablespoons of water in a bottle then the furan and dosing out 1 tablespoon for a treatment. hope this works and what we've read isn't wrong.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

We applied 1 tablespoon of the (re-animator) solution at 11:15 April, 9 2014


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

That's good news! I hope he continues to improve!

Your method was fine! You put a packet of medication and 10 tablespoons of water into the bottle to create the solution.... 

So to treat him, yes - use 1 tablespoon of the solution per gallon of tank water. Ie:
1 gallon tank = use 1 tablespoon of solution
2 gallon tank = use 2 tablespoons of solution
Etc.

Save the remaining solution for any water changes that you do. Then, just use 1 tablespoon of solution per gallon of new water. (Same formula as above.)

Keep us updated!


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> That's good news! I hope he continues to improve!
> 
> Your method was fine! You put a packet of medication and 10 tablespoons of water into the bottle to create the solution....
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, he is still alive and still at the bottom of his little tank. The dead bits seems to be coming off. The rest of the meds are saved for use next change. Hoping for the best whatever this illness is.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

I had this happen to my EE's pectoral fins. But he acted normal. the silver color and then it fell off. I treated him with Aquarium salt and come to find out it was fin rot. 

I hope your boy pulls through. <3


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Tree said:


> I had this happen to my EE's pectoral fins. But he acted normal. the silver color and then it fell off. I treated him with Aquarium salt and come to find out it was fin rot.
> 
> I hope your boy pulls through. <3


Thank you so much. He's still alive right now and it looks like it all might actually fall off. Would this be like a severe type of fin rot, but omgosh this is awful. I will take him living with fin rot of having myco though!!! 

We're all fighting, Winston the hardest.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Winston is still alive, not my hopes aren't up just yet, he is still having a really hard time with everything. But He's been chilling on this leaf thing we got him today, he's been eating and more of the dead bits of his tail have come off though.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

<3 I will wish him well =)


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

Tree said:


> <3 I will wish him well =)


:3 Thank you, he is still fighting hard, I am going to post a photo below of his illness progression.


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

So it's been 4 days since this illness started. It happen suddenly in the hospital tank and we first thought it was myco or "graphite disease" but now I am thinking it was a severe and sudden fin rot. I am not getting my hopes up just yet. He looks good, hell he looks like a completely different fish. He's really red now --I blame the lack of tail though .

He's swimming now, not perfectly. He still has a hard time and sinks a little bit but he's not just lying on the bottom of the tank, hell, when he's at the bottom he float just above it. Oh and it looks like there is just a thread of his rotted tail still hanging on.

I want to thank anyone the took the time and effort to show care and support. LittleBlueFishlets and Tree, your kindness and information has really gotten my boyfriend and I though this. Without you two we would have found no solace in this situation. I can not thank you enough. Little BlueFishlets no matter what happens with Winston, you were there readily and kindly to help us and Tree you came in with a reply of fin rot that helped me push through and truly believe that he could make it and so far he has, look at the photo below and you'll see it too!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

So the blue has faded out, leaving the red more visible. Interesting! I have no idea what that indicates, but it's interesting. The remaining section of fin looks healthy to me. And that fact that he's eating is GREAT. Generally, when they don't feel well, the first thing that happens is that they stop eating. Since he's eating, it's a good indication that he feels OK.

How is he doing today? Has the last bit of rot/gray fallen off yet?


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> So the blue has faded out, leaving the red more visible. Interesting! I have no idea what that indicates, but it's interesting. The remaining section of fin looks healthy to me. And that fact that he's eating is GREAT. Generally, when they don't feel well, the first thing that happens is that they stop eating. Since he's eating, it's a good indication that he feels OK.
> 
> How is he doing today? Has the last bit of rot/gray fallen off yet?


That really last bit hasn't fallen off. But I am cleaning out his old tank and getting ready to move him back in. Do you have an advice for that?


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## coleaini (Jun 22, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> So the blue has faded out, leaving the red more visible. Interesting! I have no idea what that indicates, but it's interesting. The remaining section of fin looks healthy to me. And that fact that he's eating is GREAT. Generally, when they don't feel well, the first thing that happens is that they stop eating. Since he's eating, it's a good indication that he feels OK.
> 
> How is he doing today? Has the last bit of rot/gray fallen off yet?


Yes! He's been back in his normal tank for about 24 hours, he's still eating, the rot is gone now, he's pretty chill most of the time but he does swim more now. I don't blame him for not wanting to swim he's uneven now and his tail in the back is huge and weighs him down.

I am so happy he is doing better.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm glad that he's back in his normal tank, and is doing well!


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