# Any Raw Feeders?



## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

I feed my 3 cats and dog PMR (well, one gets ground because he has a massive overbite that prevents him from being able to chew properly lol).

Anyone else feed raw on this forum? 

Meal prep for my pup!









Meeko is a Pomeranian x Chihuahua puppy mill rescue. He is around 2 years old and I have been feeding him raw since I brought him home in January, 2013. He is so small it is difficult portioning things out for him lol! I usually end up preparing at least two months' worth at a time.

He came to me with chunks of fur missing, dry, brittle, and dull fur. A couple months on raw and his fur grew back and now he has a luscious coat 









LeRoux, my Oriental-x. Also a rescue  He LOVES raw. He makes the happiest purring chompy noises as he eats lol! He thinks he's a "wild animal" and prefers his raw meat served right on the counter *blehh*. I just make sure to clean up the counter after him :lol:

















Theon, my most recently adopted cat. We rescued him as a feral, mite-infested kitten in Montreal North. We had him up for adoption (while we fostered) for almost a full year, and we ended up just adopting him because he was just plain awful on adoption days. He is also very particular -- a lot of people would consider him "aggressive". He's very docile though, just very quick to resort to violence lol. He's been fed raw since we have had him (so since he was a wee kitten). He also happens to have the most luscious fur out of the three cats (both of the other cats started raw much later in their lives).









Cha Cha, our oldest cat. He's technically my sister's cat. He's the one with the overbite. He actually has a dental in August. They are unfortunately going to have to remove his lower canines because their placement is causing damage on the upper palate of his mouth. He gets ground. His favorite meats are venison, beef and pork  He is the whole reason why we started feeding raw. When on kibble (with canned food once a day), he was okay, but not great... and then he developed FLUTD and had struvite crystals. Since switching to raw he's become much more active, affectionate, and he hasn't had a single flareup.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Cute pets. 
I'm switching my ferret to raw... he seems to like it a lot more! We're not quite ready for whole, he only wants ground up stuff now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I've wanted to do raw for my boys, but one of my cats straight up refuses to eat anything but dry food, and he's the one I most wanted on raw. :roll: Never had a cat that wouldn't eat meat or wet food before, but there's a first for everything.


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

I am going to look into raw feeding after seeing this post! My brother's rescue dog (he was found wandering the streets) has a big issue with itchy skin and excessive shedding. He looks to be some sort of terrier (fox or rat terrier, maybe?), but he sheds more than my cocker spaniel ever did! No amount of brushing or conditioning seems to help poor Buddy, but maybe it has to do with his diet! Right now he's being fed one of the more expensive holistic dog foods, but maybe raw will do the trick and help him sort out the issues with his coat, eh? Worth a shot!

Thanks for this post! And your pets are ADORABLE!!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

How do you afford that? If i did that with my dogs (80 pound mutts), that would be a pretty heavy penny. Seki, you could try switching the terriers food to a salmon based food (If you arent already). That will help with the coat. Also there is wen for dogs and it works amazingly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I know my ferret isn't that much to feed (he does eat a surprising amount actually), but feeding him raw is helping to prevent various cancers... do I really want to spend thousands on a risky surgery for my little guy because he was munching on carbs and ruined his pancreas? (cats as obligate carnivores are probably also vulnerable to such things!)
If you count out the time spent, and have a good butcher... I think raw is cheaper than buying a 5* kibble as well. A lot of stuff that is good for the dog is by-product (chicken spines, organ meats, feet...) an animal eats a lot less raw as well... my 90lb boxer would need a bit over 800g of food a day (parents don't care to switch them).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Actually by-products arent great for dogs. Feet, beaks, nails, ect. Also by-product dont have the best quality either. My dogs get taste of the wild and acana. Very good brands. With cats it may actually be cheaper than getting all those cans. But with big dogs it is a lot of money. Also cancer isnt really a threat with cats (though some get it), kidney failure is the number one killer.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Olympia said:


> Cute pets.
> I'm switching my ferret to raw... he seems to like it a lot more! We're not quite ready for whole, he only wants ground up stuff now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! Yes, sometimes it takes a while lol. I used to work at a holistic pet boutique where we sold raw, and we had some customers who needed to take MONTHS to switch their cat to raw lol!



hrutan said:


> I've wanted to do raw for my boys, but one of my cats straight up refuses to eat anything but dry food, and he's the one I most wanted on raw. :roll: Never had a cat that wouldn't eat meat or wet food before, but there's a first for everything.


Yeah sometimes it's really tiny baby steps, like feeding the dry on a schedule (instead of free feeding) and then adding just a pea sized amount of wet, and increasing the amount slowly over weeks, and then mixing a teeny tiny bit of raw into the wet, and so on and so forth lol. Cats can be so stubborn!!



Seki said:


> I am going to look into raw feeding after seeing this post! My brother's rescue dog (he was found wandering the streets) has a big issue with itchy skin and excessive shedding. He looks to be some sort of terrier (fox or rat terrier, maybe?), but he sheds more than my cocker spaniel ever did! No amount of brushing or conditioning seems to help poor Buddy, but maybe it has to do with his diet! Right now he's being fed one of the more expensive holistic dog foods, but maybe raw will do the trick and help him sort out the issues with his coat, eh? Worth a shot!
> 
> Thanks for this post! And your pets are ADORABLE!!


What food are you feeding? Does he smell at all? I find a lot of dogs tend to be allergic/intolerant of grains, or sometimes they are sensitive to yeast (so eating carb-heavy foods like kibble, even the grain free kind doesn't help). My old job was helping people switch to raw so I can try to help you figure out what is causing all the itching and shedding!



tankman12 said:


> How do you afford that? If i did that with my dogs (80 pound mutts), that would be a pretty heavy penny. Seki, you could try switching the terriers food to a salmon based food (If you arent already). That will help with the coat. Also there is wen for dogs and it works amazingly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My dog is 7 lbs, and my cats 12 lbs each. So it probably costs me less to feed them raw than it does for your big dogs :lol: On average my 7 lbs dog costs me $15-20 a month, and my cats around $40/month each... so basically the same amount it would have cost me to put them on high quality kibble and less than if I fed canned. Usually with larger dogs if you can find a wholesaler/distributor or you join a co-op you should be able to afford it  That, and as Olympia has mentioned, you save on vet bills! Every time my cat went in for an FLUTD problem, it used to cost me ~$300. I haven't had to take him in for that problem in.... two years now  And it used to happen every few months... so you can see how it saved me on my $$$~



Olympia said:


> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
> 
> I know my ferret isn't that much to feed (he does eat a surprising amount actually), but feeding him raw is helping to prevent various cancers... do I really want to spend thousands on a risky surgery for my little guy because he was munching on carbs and ruined his pancreas? (cats as obligate carnivores are probably also vulnerable to such things!)
> If you count out the time spent, and have a good butcher... I think raw is cheaper than buying a 5* kibble as well. A lot of stuff that is good for the dog is by-product (chicken spines, organ meats, feet...) an animal eats a lot less raw as well... my 90lb boxer would need a bit over 800g of food a day (parents don't care to switch them).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeap that is the case for my cats  That and cats and ferrets are obligate carnivores! No need for veggies/fruits/grains in their diet at all!



tankman12 said:


> Actually by-products arent great for dogs. Feet, beaks, nails, ect. Also by-product dont have the best quality either. My dogs get taste of the wild and acana. Very good brands. With cats it may actually be cheaper than getting all those cans. But with big dogs it is a lot of money. Also cancer isnt really a threat with cats (though some get it), kidney failure is the number one killer.


If you did research on raw, you would know that "by-products" are regularly used -- chicken feet, cow trachea, etc. are great sources of glucosamine and MSM (that's why they use them in making supplements). By-products in kibble are a problem because they are not specific enough -- you don't know WHICH by-products are being used and how much of it. I feed raw "by-products" on a regular basis -- I feed all sorts of organs, I've fed chicken heads including the beak, etc. They are all fine to eat. They are not "by-products" in other cultures as well -- I'm Korean and in Korea people eat things like chicken feet so.. 

And cancer is a threat for any animal lol but yes, kidney failure is the top killer because they have evolved from desert animals, and so they often lack thirst drive. They are meant to get most of their moisture from their food (meat is 70% water) but with dry they are not getting that. That is why their urine stinks when on dry and they end up developing kidney/urinary problems


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

By products ARE good for predators. Any organ save for bladder and intestines is good for them. Chicken feet (oh heck my mother loves chicken feet) and esophagus are both excellent sources of glucosamine. My dogs will devour a chicken foot whole, nails and all. 
When a wild predator kills something, the first thing it does it TEAR into those organ meats. Even though we are weird and are put off by eating something like a chicken heart, it is a wonderful source of taurine, which is absolutely vital to obligate carnivores as they are not able to produce their own...
Something like a chicken spine, which we cannot eat (hence by-product) is AMAZING for carnivores, as they will eat them whole. 
Yea muscle meats are important... but they do not contain all that the animal needs... obviously by-products from a humane-grade killed animal are being discussed.. 

Ironically enough, it's as if these animals WERE MADE to eat every part of the animal.. Like who would have thought?

These animals evolved consuming stuff like this.. Until the end of the second war it's what people fed their animals. After WWII, we suddenly got surround by fast food, and our pets got surrounded by kibble.. Convenience. Everyone was moving into cities, and there was nothing left to feed animals there... 

I bought a "grain free" food for my ferret.. there was a lot of potato... what the heck.. that's still a carb..
I remember buying acana for a chihuahua I was helping once.... for the price I payed for the bag, I could have made 4x as much raw food...


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well ya i meant the by-products in kibble, like you said. I never had a cat so i dont know what the price of their food and stuff is. I bet raw would be cheaper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

taquitos said:


> What food are you feeding? Does he smell at all? I find a lot of dogs tend to be allergic/intolerant of grains, or sometimes they are sensitive to yeast (so eating carb-heavy foods like kibble, even the grain free kind doesn't help). My old job was helping people switch to raw so I can try to help you figure out what is causing all the itching and shedding!


At the moment he's being fed Dr. Gary's Best Breed, usually the salmon flavor, but sometimes the chicken just to mix things up. We were told the salmon would do the most for his coat, but it's not helping at all. He doesn't smell, although that might be because we bathe him about every three weeks. We didn't bathe our cocker quite that much. Mostly, Buddy gets itchy and chews/licks, creating raw spots on himself. And if you so much as run a hand along his back, you're gonna be covered in black and white fur! I had read online that eggs were good for dogs' coats, so I have been giving him an egg (cooked) mixed in with his food every now and then. 

At first we thought he was shedding because it was Fall... but then he kept shedding through Winter... and Spring... and Summer... and we've realized he's just constantly shedding a LOT. And he doesn't have a ton of fur, so he's not a big fan of most brushes. He really only tolerates the rubber-y ones.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

What do you use as a shampoo? Im not a certified vet, but i have been working at one for a year and there is only two people (vet and vet tech) that work there, so they share with my A LOT of information. That wen stuff is supposed to work miracles. Also you could try changes his food, for like a week or to, too taste of the wild pacific salmon food. I use that with my dogs and beautiful coats. Also he could have some pretty bad allergies. Cuz this year has been TERRIBLE for allergies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Seki said:


> At the moment he's being fed Dr. Gary's Best Breed, usually the salmon flavor, but sometimes the chicken just to mix things up. We were told the salmon would do the most for his coat, but it's not helping at all. He doesn't smell, although that might be because we bathe him about every three weeks. We didn't bathe our cocker quite that much. Mostly, Buddy gets itchy and chews/licks, creating raw spots on himself. And if you so much as run a hand along his back, you're gonna be covered in black and white fur! I had read online that eggs were good for dogs' coats, so I have been giving him an egg (cooked) mixed in with his food every now and then.
> 
> At first we thought he was shedding because it was Fall... but then he kept shedding through Winter... and Spring... and Summer... and we've realized he's just constantly shedding a LOT. And he doesn't have a ton of fur, so he's not a big fan of most brushes. He really only tolerates the rubber-y ones.


Are his paws/mouth area dyed brown by any chance?

After looking at the ingredients, I noticed the second and third ingredients being grains. It may very well be a grain allergy/intolerance. I would probably switch him to something without grains.

When he does start to smell, do you notice like a corn chippy smell? Do his feet kinda smell like Doritos?

Where is he scratching?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

taquitos said:


> Yeah sometimes it's really tiny baby steps, like feeding the dry on a schedule (instead of free feeding) and then adding just a pea sized amount of wet, and increasing the amount slowly over weeks, and then mixing a teeny tiny bit of raw into the wet, and so on and so forth lol. Cats can be so stubborn!!


I tried. Oh, how I tried. He'll drink gravy, but that's it. I tried taking baby steps, mixing the kibble with a tiny touch of gravy - but if the kibble gets even the slightest bit soft, he won't eat it. When he started losing weight, I gave up. He doesn't have all that much spare, and since he's an exceptionally thick longhair, the fact that the weight loss was visible was a bad sign.

One of the other cats appears to be completely intolerant of carbs. I successfully switched both him and the third over to wet food completely, and our fatty lost four pounds in about 6 weeks. We increased how much he's getting, and he's still losing weight. We're not starving him by any means. It's like he's deflating...crazy stuff. He is so much more spunky than he used to be.


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## Budgiebonkers (Apr 13, 2014)

My cats eat raw my dogs wont touch anything thats not cooked. Lol


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

taquitos said:


> Are his paws/mouth area dyed brown by any chance?
> 
> After looking at the ingredients, I noticed the second and third ingredients being grains. It may very well be a grain allergy/intolerance. I would probably switch him to something without grains.
> 
> ...


His muzzle is black already haha so no brown there. And his paws aren't brown either, so I don't think he has whatever symptom that might be. I haven't noticed a corn chip type of smell, but he isn't always over at my house, either. He lives with my brother, we just dog-sit him rather frequently.

He scratches and licks most frequently on his legs or his groin area. He has actually made himself bleed and scab in the past, although not as much more recently. It's more scratching than licking now. He used to lick all the fur off of a particular area, though.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Our old cat Bandit gets mostly this packaged raw that is called Dr Billinghurst's R.A.W BARF. He also gets a lot of mince meat (usually kangaroo) and things like chicken necks. 

The rest of our animals are sort of on mixed raw. I know some people say raw with kibble is bad, but our dogs have never had any issues with it. They get things like chicken frames, mince meat, brisket bones, green tripe, and tinned salmon. 

We simply don't have the freezer space to feed three German Shepherds and four cats completely on raw. 

We do try to give them as much raw meat and bones as possible, and only two of our cats get dry food in the morning (Wellness Core) with the rest being tin. 

I've also found coconut oil really makes the dogs' coats shine. We put some in their food every day and they love licking it up.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

hrutan said:


> I tried. Oh, how I tried. He'll drink gravy, but that's it. I tried taking baby steps, mixing the kibble with a tiny touch of gravy - but if the kibble gets even the slightest bit soft, he won't eat it. When he started losing weight, I gave up. He doesn't have all that much spare, and since he's an exceptionally thick longhair, the fact that the weight loss was visible was a bad sign.
> 
> One of the other cats appears to be completely intolerant of carbs. I successfully switched both him and the third over to wet food completely, and our fatty lost four pounds in about 6 weeks. We increased how much he's getting, and he's still losing weight. We're not starving him by any means. It's like he's deflating...crazy stuff. He is so much more spunky than he used to be.


Hahaha yeah some cats are just incorrigible :roll:

My cats all began weighing MORE when they switched to raw, but they began looking less "fluffy". I guess they had more muscle gain? Not sure lol  It's amazing how much diet can affect their personalities!



Budgiebonkers said:


> My cats eat raw my dogs wont touch anything thats not cooked. Lol


Lol weird!! Usually dogs are easier to switch to raw! What kinda dogs do you have?  I started my dog on chopped up quail -- he didn't know how to eat the bones really so it took him a couple of days to figure it out, but he's a champ now and will even demolish a whole chicken if I let him at it for a few days (obviously put back in the freezer after he's had his fill during meal time) 



Seki said:


> His muzzle is black already haha so no brown there. And his paws aren't brown either, so I don't think he has whatever symptom that might be. I haven't noticed a corn chip type of smell, but he isn't always over at my house, either. He lives with my brother, we just dog-sit him rather frequently.
> 
> He scratches and licks most frequently on his legs or his groin area. He has actually made himself bleed and scab in the past, although not as much more recently. It's more scratching than licking now. He used to lick all the fur off of a particular area, though.


Poor pup! Yeah try raw  If not, then maybe switching to a grain free kibble (like Acana regionals, Orijen, TOTW or something similar) might help 



LittleBettaFish said:


> Our old cat Bandit gets mostly this packaged raw that is called Dr Billinghurst's R.A.W BARF. He also gets a lot of mince meat (usually kangaroo) and things like chicken necks.
> 
> The rest of our animals are sort of on mixed raw. I know some people say raw with kibble is bad, but our dogs have never had any issues with it. They get things like chicken frames, mince meat, brisket bones, green tripe, and tinned salmon.
> 
> ...


Oooh kangaroo! Lucky cats  I wish I could get my hands on more exotic meats!

Yeah I have personally not had any issues feeding part raw and part kibble as well  When I was fostering a 45 lbs AmStaff with horrible allergies, I couldn't afford to feed 100% raw so she got part raw. I don't see anything wrong with that


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Seki have you taken him to a vet? It sounds like allergies. I wouldnt give him raw before a grain free food. Cuz some dogs (not all), once they get food like that (raw, cooked, ect) they wont go back to kibble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

tankman12 said:


> Seki have you taken him to a vet? It sounds like allergies. I wouldnt give him raw before a grain free food. Cuz some dogs (not all), once they get food like that (raw, cooked, ect) they wont go back to kibble.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They will go back if they're hungry enough. Lots of dogs will eat anything lol. My dog LOVES kibble even though he's been fed raw for two years (and he's considered a "picky" breed!).

But yeah I agree, maybe a vet visit to rule out fungal infections, etc. is probably a good idea.

I just would not bother with vet food (if they suggest it) though


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya i was just pointing it out. Cuz my friends dog had to get a pill in some cheese in his food for a month or so. I forget why. But now he will not eat his food unless there is cheese in it. Also one of mine, after he got a taste of cooked ground beef. Loves it. He is a little picky but will eat it without it. The other one eats anything, lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

Buddy isn't too picky. I think his time out on the streets has made him willing to eat almost anything, although his tummy is a little sensitive and he'll vomit if he eats something that doesn't agree with him.

We're going to try switching him to a grain-free kibble and see if it helps with his itchiness/shedding at all. It could easily be allergies, and we've looked into that possibility before. He also seems to get watery eyes and the sneezes if there's a lot of pollen in the air.

My brother is looking at grain-free Blue Buffalo. Anyone know anything about this brand?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

It is a good brand. So is taste of the wild and acana. Any of those are great brands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Seki said:


> Buddy isn't too picky. I think his time out on the streets has made him willing to eat almost anything, although his tummy is a little sensitive and he'll vomit if he eats something that doesn't agree with him.
> 
> We're going to try switching him to a grain-free kibble and see if it helps with his itchiness/shedding at all. It could easily be allergies, and we've looked into that possibility before. He also seems to get watery eyes and the sneezes if there's a lot of pollen in the air.
> 
> My brother is looking at grain-free Blue Buffalo. Anyone know anything about this brand?


It's okay. I think it's overpriced for what it is though. I find Orijen/Acana to be better brands (and cheaper for what you get).

Blue Buffalo also sources some of their meat from China I think.

I personally prefer anything by Champion (Orijen/Acana -- grain free only), Fromm (GF versions only), and some other brands like Dr Tim's. TOTW is okay too.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Taste of the wild is also very good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BettaStarter24 (Mar 24, 2014)

I personally do not support raw diets as they could potentially cause the animals to become carriers for zoonotic diseases and potentially pass on Salmonella or other dangerous diseases to humans. I couldn't imagine how bad I would feel if my dog became a carrier for salmonella and passed it on to a little kid and that little kid died. I don't support the raw diet also because it doesn't provide everything a dog or cat needs, besides the taurine (I think that's what it is it's been a while since I took the class on this) cats and ferrets need. This is just my opinion though I'm not telling anybody don't do it, that's not my place I'm just voicing my opinion.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

BettaStarter24 said:


> I personally do not support raw diets as they could potentially cause the animals to become carriers for zoonotic diseases and potentially pass on Salmonella or other dangerous diseases to humans. I couldn't imagine how bad I would feel if my dog became a carrier for salmonella and passed it on to a little kid and that little kid died. I don't support the raw diet also because it doesn't provide everything a dog or cat needs, besides the taurine (I think that's what it is it's been a while since I took the class on this) cats and ferrets need. This is just my opinion though I'm not telling anybody don't do it, that's not my place I'm just voicing my opinion.


Cats already have a strain of salmonella in their gut.

You can still get salmonella from processed foods -- that's why there are recalls for salmonella, etc. in dry dog/cat foods.

Raw does not put more dogs/cats at risk of carrying salmonella than kibble does.

I think having your opinion is fine, and I can respect it, but I think you also need to do a bit more research (not meant to be condescending, sorry if it came off that way).

Let's also just mention that dogs/cats have been eating raw meat for thousands of years before the advent of processed dog/cat foods a little over 100 years ago. They have a three step process of eliminating harmful bacteria (their saliva, their stomach acids, and their short digestive tracts). As long as your child is not playing and eating with poop there is hardly any risk. The same risk exists even with processed foods.

Oh and lots of cats are still "outdoor" or "barn" cats and they eat tons of raw meat from wild animals everyday, and you haven't heard of a farmer getting poisoned from the cats, have you?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Yep.. that's why all pet foods and treats say to wash your hands after touching!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you balance the diet correctly, there should be no issues with feeding raw. I doubt the digestive systems of domesticated cats and dogs have changed all that much from that of their ancestors and wild equivalents today. I think raw is particularly good for cats. They are obligate carnivores. They should not be getting diets high in grains and cereals, and I personally hate dry food as it can be hard on their kidneys and can cause urinary issues (one of our cats can't even eat it without developing blood in his urine). 

I have yet to catch salmonella from any of the raw foods I use, and I am the absolute worst with handling raw foods. I think the danger is pretty minimal if you are taking appropriate steps to prepare and handle the raw ingredients.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I can't feed raw due to storage issues and the fact most of the readily available supermarket meat in my area have been frozen for who knows how long. However, I don't think there should be issues with food poisoning - the acids in carnivore stomachs is really strong. In the wild, they can eat rotting roadkill without adverse effects though I'm not saying feed them rotting meat.

I'd prefer feeding raw since I get to keep most of the nutrients for my boys but I do compromise with ground meat that's slow cooked on charcoal.


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

Seki said:


> Buddy isn't too picky. I think his time out on the streets has made him willing to eat almost anything, although his tummy is a little sensitive and he'll vomit if he eats something that doesn't agree with him.
> 
> We're going to try switching him to a grain-free kibble and see if it helps with his itchiness/shedding at all. It could easily be allergies, and we've looked into that possibility before. He also seems to get watery eyes and the sneezes if there's a lot of pollen in the air.
> 
> My brother is looking at grain-free Blue Buffalo. Anyone know anything about this brand?


My 1-year-old Polo has been itchy his whole life and after a recent food switch (4 star food) began losing tons of fur.

I'm not 100% sure of how well his new food switch to Blue Buffalo is going because he was given a steroid injection to treat symptoms.

However on the Blue Buffalo he is doing very well. Both of my cats will eat it after turning up their noses at the Chicken Soup brand.

I have them on BB Wilderness Chicken. They get 1/2 cup per day each, so price is just a little more than what I had them on previously. Grain-free, soy-free. Polo used to inhale food (about 3 times more than my other cat), but now he grazes at an appropriate rate and doesn't beg for food anymore - so I think we have a hit!

edit/note: I believe rabbit is commonly brought in from china for cat food, so that's the ingredient I avoid. Salmon is more likely to cause smelly poops. Because I have hedgehogs and salmon cat food is linked to UTI's in hedgehogs I avoid that ingredient entirely. Looking over all of the options with BB, Wildnerss is cheaper than the Limited Ingredient formulas and Chicken is the safest bet for protein base. "Indoor" formula requires larger volume of kibble per day so is more expensive.

General idea of gluten allergy:

Gluten harms the villi in the gut, hurting absorption. On top of needing to eat more lower-end food because it contains less protein etc, the need to eat is increased even more because lower absorption leads to food cravings. Additional symptoms include constipation/diarrhea/abdominal discomfort, itching, etc. Bad eating habits lead to weight gain, often enough.

For treats: I found My Little Lion grain-free treats on clearance, less than $2, at Petsmart. My cats love them!

I was looking at feeding raw but it is just not viable option right now. I will be revisiting raw feeding after I have my RN, but for now the BB seems to be working and Polo has not had any digestive issues. Fur is growing back. 

Are there any peer-reviewed studies on feeding cats raw diets?


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Olympia said:


> Yep.. that's why all pet foods and treats say to wash your hands after touching!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


+++++1



LittleBettaFish said:


> If you balance the diet correctly, there should be no issues with feeding raw. I doubt the digestive systems of domesticated cats and dogs have changed all that much from that of their ancestors and wild equivalents today. I think raw is particularly good for cats. They are obligate carnivores. They should not be getting diets high in grains and cereals, and I personally hate dry food as it can be hard on their kidneys and can cause urinary issues (one of our cats can't even eat it without developing blood in his urine).
> 
> I have yet to catch salmonella from any of the raw foods I use, and I am the absolute worst with handling raw foods. I think the danger is pretty minimal if you are taking appropriate steps to prepare and handle the raw ingredients.


Me neither lol and I worked at a store where we made our own raw! Plenty of handling raw meat (and same at home)  3 cats + 1 dog on raw and I haven't gotten sick yet 



Vergil said:


> I can't feed raw due to storage issues and the fact most of the readily available supermarket meat in my area have been frozen for who knows how long. However, I don't think there should be issues with food poisoning - the acids in carnivore stomachs is really strong. In the wild, they can eat rotting roadkill without adverse effects though I'm not saying feed them rotting meat.
> 
> I'd prefer feeding raw since I get to keep most of the nutrients for my boys but I do compromise with ground meat that's slow cooked on charcoal.


Yeah storage is the most difficult part for everyone. My entire freezer is basically dedicated to my animals lol. Kinda forced me to eat healthy as a consequence though  I can't wait 'til I have my own place so that I can purchase a chest freezer!

Btw, most frozen meats (even with freezer burn) is safe to feed your pets!


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

Yeah it is. Unfortunately for me, I don't have run of the freezer - it's for me and like 5-6 other people. I'd love to get a chest freezer someday too and prep a 40lb batch once a weekend every other month or so but that won't be for a long while.

Raw feeding has me confuzzled TBH. There are camps that say don't mix kibble and raw food since they digest at different rates and others who say it's fine; people (a few vets we know included) saying it's fine as long as you only feed meat that's never been frozen and then freezer meat is safe.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Vergil said:


> Yeah it is. Unfortunately for me, I don't have run of the freezer - it's for me and like 5-6 other people. I'd love to get a chest freezer someday too and prep a 40lb batch once a weekend every other month or so but that won't be for a long while.
> 
> Raw feeding has me confuzzled TBH. There are camps that say don't mix kibble and raw food since they digest at different rates and others who say it's fine; people (a few vets we know included) saying it's fine as long as you only feed meat that's never been frozen and then freezer meat is safe.


Yeah it's not always easy feeding raw, that's for sure. I admit 100% that kibble or cans are much more convenient. I do feed my dog kibble on occasion when I've forgotten to defrost my raw :lol: It's rare that this happens, but it happens 

Well I worked as a animal nutrition "enthusiast" at a holistic pet supplies store for a couple of years, so I've done my fair share of research regarding whether or not to mix kibble with raw. The argument is basically that kibble takes longer to digest than raw (approx. 9-12 hours) and raw only takes 4-6 hours, and because raw is, well, raw meat, it shouldn't be sitting in the tummy for that long. It's one of those "myths" though that have yet to be confirmed true ;-) I tell most people, do whatever works for them. If their dog has no problems eating kibble and raw in the same meal, then go right ahead and do it! I've done it before and I've never seen any adverse effects on any of my own dogs, cats, or foster dogs lol! But I have seen it cause issue with SOME dogs (where it just causes digestive upset).

I don't think anyone says never feed raw and kibble together (even in separate feedings) anymore though 

As for frozen VS fresh, I honestly don't see what difference this will make. Also, with some meats, it is actually recommended to feed after being frozen for several weeks (i.e. game meats).


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

Digestion time should not matter, unless you're looking at constipation.

Looking at the absorption side of digestion, wet food and raw food (unless it is chunks) should be quickest and most effective because of surface area.

It's like take a pill v. a liquid. Faster absorption of the liquid.


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

Making the switch to raw. Even on the Blue Buffalo my cat is itching non-stop. I can't understand what he would be allergic to aside from food as he is not exposed to anything else. The premix I bought it expensive so I'm really hoping this works. To be honest I think the food will cost more than getting Polo medication but I'd rather treat the illness than the symptoms.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Allergies can be environmental. So the food probably isnt the issue. Allergies have been threw the roof the last couple of years. That is most likely it. Even by not going outside, you can still have allergies. Just by opening a window, pollen, dust, ect, will come in. He could also be allergic to the litter.

Or he could have; fleas, mange, infection, ect. There are many other variables.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

No issues with fleas/mange/parasites/etc. That is all cleared with the vet.

It is possibly environmental -- maybe pollen, but then it would be seasonal and not this persistent.

Already have eliminated litter as the issue I think - although I do have walnut litter recently (I have literally tried every kind of litter) and may take that away and see what happens. Thanks for the tip on the litter 

I think plan of care right now:

-eliminate walnut litter
-start raw food, chicken based
-if that doesn't work, switch meat base
-if that doesn't work, l think it's safe to assume it's an environmental allergy that I cannot control and will have to keep him on regular medication.

I was leaning towards food because symptoms fall more in line with food allergies. If he has multiple allergies, I've at least eliminated the main one, because he no longer has loose stools.

I wish I could run allergy panels like I've had but spending $1000 on labs is a little over the top. Not even sure if they offer those labs for animals.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya the raw foods may help. If the chicken doesnt work. I would suggest get a small bag of taste of the wild salmon bag. Only a small bag and see if that helps. Dont waste your money on a big bag. The salmon will help with his coat. 

Do you wash him?
Im guessing no, but just asking.

How long has this been going on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

thanks for the tip  I might get him some.

No, he has only had a bath when he had diarrhea.  poor boy.

This has been going on for maybe 3 months and the fur loss coincided with a food change so I thought it was that... went from a food I've used forever to a food with grain it in but otherwise good content.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

I wouldn't go to kibble at first if you are trying to narrow down allergies. Kibble is often made of lots of ingredients so it'll be harder for you to figure out what your cat is allergic to. It'll be safer to go the raw route because you will be feeding literally one protein only with no other veggies/fruits/grains to take into account.

Good luck! Also rule out yeast  When I worked at the pet boutique about 50% of the people who came in with dogs with "allergies" turned out to be a yeast overgrowth.


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

yeast growth on the skin you mean? Def have seen it on dogs... but we're sure it's allergies based on the results of medication.

I started with kibble because it was easiest and he had been on kibble with no trouble before I switched... oh well. I'm excited to get him on to raw, anyhow!!

I have to go buy a good little blender or something now.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

I feed my pets raw...or well, my DOG raw...my cat refuses raw.
I also feed my pet white mice (feeder mice, rescued) a raw grain mix that I made homemade. I'm still waiting to find out what kind of food I can feed my betta fish. If you'r interested in helping me, search on this forum for "what should I feed betta fish." there you can help me.


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

InStitches said:


> yeast growth on the skin you mean? Def have seen it on dogs... but we're sure it's allergies based on the results of medication.
> 
> I started with kibble because it was easiest and he had been on kibble with no trouble before I switched... oh well. I'm excited to get him on to raw, anyhow!!
> 
> I have to go buy a good little blender or something now.


Well that's good I'm glad you found something that works!

I don't bother with grinding, but I started off with ground and graduated to small chunks, and then finally to whole chicken wings, etc. 



MiriamandMoonlight said:


> I feed my pets raw...or well, my DOG raw...my cat refuses raw.
> I also feed my pet white mice (feeder mice, rescued) a raw grain mix that I made homemade. I'm still waiting to find out what kind of food I can feed my betta fish. If you'r interested in helping me, search on this forum for "what should I feed betta fish." there you can help me.


Cats are very picky and usually it takes weeks to months of very slowly introducing it to have them be interested at all lol. Cats... I feel like it's more important for them to be on raw, but of course they have to be the more difficult ones :evil:

I have heard of people feeding tiny cubes of beef heart to their betta, but I haven't tried it myself. I've fed live white worms and wingless fruit flies though


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Hay, Taquitos, you feed white worms & flightless fruit flies, eh? Are they in the wild? Where do you find them? I am feeding my girl betta Dolphin and my boy Yin live mosquito larvae & the occasional frozen bloodworm but I would love to add some variety to their diet...


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> Hay, Taquitos, you feed white worms & flightless fruit flies, eh? Are they in the wild? Where do you find them? I am feeding my girl betta Dolphin and my boy Yin live mosquito larvae & the occasional frozen bloodworm but I would love to add some variety to their diet...


I bought cultures from my betta breeder/importer


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Oh, so you don't know what to feed them from the wild. Where would I get a culture? I'm interested in culturing my own if not getting them from the wild!


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> Oh, so you don't know what to feed them from the wild. Where would I get a culture? I'm interested in culturing my own if not getting them from the wild!


Hmm not sure where else, but I think maybe reptile specialty stores will have cultures of wingless fruit flies


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Oh, good.


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

I feed my pug mix, Harley Quinn, the Honest Kitchen base mix (Preference), with raw beef mixed in. I often toss in whatever I find at the market that month. This month is ground beef, stewing beef, and a chicken heart. Last month was ground beef, stewing beef and chicken necks/backs. I often get scraps of beef when my chef husband cuts up tenderloins, so I save those for Harley's meals.

I started this diet with her after I moved out of my folk's place, and Harley started getting picky with her food (mostly due to anxiety). Kibble would lose its appeal to her a week or two after opening the bag. She would refuse to eat her breakfast, and then would throw up bile when I would have to walk her 2 blocks to go to the bathroom (my apartment building did not have any grass around, just mud..). She had just been to the vet, and they did not see anything wrong with her, she was just anxious and the lack of food upset her stomach. I finally found a great kibble she loved... Until she developed a chicken intolerance - completely diarrhea if the kibble had chicken. So we tried a limited ingredient lamb diet (made by Nature's Variety), it made her poop really crumbly and weird. Finally tried the Honest Kitchen, and BAM, it was like a night and day difference. She is REALLY excited to eat every time. She acts like she has ants in her pants when I'm preparing it, dancing all around. Bowel movements are solid and healthy, she actually lost some weight (which was good since she was almost overweight), and everyone keeps commenting on how smooth and soft her coat is 
Plus, her body cannot handle processed chicken, but it does just fine on raw chicken 

So because of that success, I've added the Honest Kitchen Prowl to my cat's diet. It's technically not raw, but a dehydrated diet. She still gets some Nature's Variety kibble on the side since she likes to nibble, and it keeps her from begging, so I cut down her portion of HK so she doesn't gain weight. So it's kind of half and half. I'm doing the same now for my new adopted kitten. He LOVES the HK Prowl, doesn't touch the kibble as much lol. Super smooth coat on my cat, and waiting for it to take effect on the kitten.
My cat, Cisqua, gets pieces of raw meat here and there as treats when I'm cutting it up for Harley's meals. Some raw chicken breast here and there, and she LOVES raw beef. 

When I suggested the HK diet for a customer's dog (it has allergies and non-stop diarrhea... T-T), she said she had considered the raw diet, but a vet had told her it could spread salmonella to her kids... -_- When I told her it was not true, she admitted that the vet was not familiar with raw diets and had to do research on the internet.... :/ I wish the vets in this area were more familiar with foods other than what they sell in their clinic (Hills, Purina, etc).

I like to keep all my fur babies on a strict grain-free, higher protein diet, but a lot of the vets in this area will still recommend their vet brands to me :/ I'm glad the one vet I regularly see knows that I've taken an animal nutrition course and trusts that I'm feeding my pets the best that I can afford, and never asks me to change it


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## taquitos (Jun 27, 2013)

Sathori said:


> I feed my pug mix, Harley Quinn, the Honest Kitchen base mix (Preference), with raw beef mixed in. I often toss in whatever I find at the market that month. This month is ground beef, stewing beef, and a chicken heart. Last month was ground beef, stewing beef and chicken necks/backs. I often get scraps of beef when my chef husband cuts up tenderloins, so I save those for Harley's meals.
> 
> I started this diet with her after I moved out of my folk's place, and Harley started getting picky with her food (mostly due to anxiety). Kibble would lose its appeal to her a week or two after opening the bag. She would refuse to eat her breakfast, and then would throw up bile when I would have to walk her 2 blocks to go to the bathroom (my apartment building did not have any grass around, just mud..). She had just been to the vet, and they did not see anything wrong with her, she was just anxious and the lack of food upset her stomach. I finally found a great kibble she loved... Until she developed a chicken intolerance - completely diarrhea if the kibble had chicken. So we tried a limited ingredient lamb diet (made by Nature's Variety), it made her poop really crumbly and weird. Finally tried the Honest Kitchen, and BAM, it was like a night and day difference. She is REALLY excited to eat every time. She acts like she has ants in her pants when I'm preparing it, dancing all around. Bowel movements are solid and healthy, she actually lost some weight (which was good since she was almost overweight), and everyone keeps commenting on how smooth and soft her coat is
> Plus, her body cannot handle processed chicken, but it does just fine on raw chicken
> ...


Great to hear you're having success with THK! Definitely one of the more reputable companies out there 

Vets here are the same as well. Luckily my usual vets are okay with the raw diet (but admit that they know very little about it). I had a friend get an awful vet though (from the same practice) who basically yelled at her and told her she was a terrible dog owner for feeding her dog raw, like wth?!?! Ugh.

With the rising popularity of raw diets, I really do think more vets should be doing research about it.


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

taquitos said:


> Great to hear you're having success with THK! Definitely one of the more reputable companies out there
> 
> Vets here are the same as well. Luckily my usual vets are okay with the raw diet (but admit that they know very little about it). I had a friend get an awful vet though (from the same practice) who basically yelled at her and told her she was a terrible dog owner for feeding her dog raw, like wth?!?! Ugh.
> 
> With the rising popularity of raw diets, I really do think more vets should be doing research about it.


Thank you  I went with THK mainly because I was too nervous to try a 100% raw diet on my own xD I would be concerned that I would not be giving my pup everything that she needs.

My regular vet admits she does not know much about the brands that I've gone through while feeding Harley, but she acknowledges my schooling in the area, and if any of my customers go to her and tell her that they are feeding their pet something that a Pet Valu employee recommended them, my vet will not tell them to switch. She trusts that my coworkers and myself know what we are talking about. 

I actually had a customer come in today, she had bought a Great Pyrenees puppy from a breeder, who was a vet, who fed raw to her adults and puppies! I was stunned, and taken back! The customer admitted that she tried to put the puppy on a good, large breed puppy specific kibble, but the puppy was having a bit of a hard time digesting it. I explained if he was use to raw, it would explain why he was having a hard time digesting kibble, and suggested that she try feeding it raw again. She agreed, knowing it was the best for her puppy.  It made my day :-D


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