# Male or female EE?



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

I bought Blanca here as a VT female at Petco. I had to snap her up, because when else was I going to get an EE for under $3? Anyway I knew she wasn't a VT and since getting her home have started to wonder if she is a she. 

I put Blanca in a sorority with 3 other females. At first she was the mother hen of the group and would break up fights. Than I had to remove one of the females because the others were ready to kill her. When the sorority had 3 females (I know it need 4 min) Blanca built a large bubble nest, taking up a quarter of the tank. After building her nest she stood guard and if another female came anywhere near her she attacked and chased them all over the tank. In the end I broke up that sorority because the females I had just were not going to live together.

When I put Blanca in a divided tank with a male (tried this with 3 males and got the same reaction every time) they would go nose to nose at the divider. While the male flared up Blanca would just look at them, then swim away. I have only ever seen her flare when I had her in the sorority and she was breaking up a fight our guarding her nest.

I know there's a lot of more educated people on here and likely have a better idea than me of the sex of Blanca. After seeing her reaction to other males I strongly lean towards her being a female. I haven't been able to get a pic of her flaring, but here are some of my best pictures of her. Does anyone have a pic of a male EE? Maybe if I could compare it would help me be sure.

My other question is what kind of EE is she? Plakat (sp?)? HM? Delta? Something else altogether?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Male hmpk  Real nice colour too


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a male HMPKEE and he has much longer fins so I think she is a HMPKEE but female


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

here's my male HMPKEE for your comparison


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

jessan, any chance you have a picture of your boy I can see?

trilobite, thank you. I am trying to figure out for sure what I have here so maybe (s)he can be breed.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Skyewillow said:


> here's my male HMPKEE for your comparison


First, I love how your nail polish matches your betta! :-D

looking at your really makes me doubt Blanca is an HMPKEE that for sure, but I don't think (s)he's HM at all. Her tail does not spread 180 degrees.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

It looks like it will when he flares. He has a lot of branching in his tail and most if not all EE ares hmpk or hm.
Heres one of my males who could reach 180 when flared doing the same pose as your one


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

my male EE plakat but not sure if he was halfmoon:

forgot to say I think yours is a male too, how long are the ventrals?


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

registereduser said:


> my male EE plakat but not sure if he was halfmoon:
> 
> forgot to say I think yours is a male too, how long are the ventrals?


The ventral aren't quite as long as any posted here. The second to last pic shows them hanging down, only reason I posted that fuzzy one was because you can kinda see the ventrals.

If it comes down to it & I don't figure it out before hand when I am ready to spawn I will set it up and test her out. Let the male swim free & put her in a chimney. See if she fills with eggs and he builds a nest.


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

here is Mason I know this isn't the best but now that he has a bigger tank its hard to get a good pic of him!

http://m1279.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/jesssan2442/IMG_20130301_130752_zpsdc067e81.jpg.html?o=4&newest=1


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you jessan & everyone else! I think I have figured it out, on this thread there's a pic that could be Blanca's twin

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=1664321#post1664321

It's a female HMPKEE, so I am really thinking that is what I have. Comparing all the pics I've gotten to see of the males & this one of a female with Blanca make me believe she is most likely a girl as her fins and everything look most like the female I found pictured by elsewhere.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

I still think your plakat is a male. Pigg's (the female plakat you linked to, which isn't an EE btw) fins are shorter and more rounded. Your betta has an extremely pointed anal fin and longer ventrals, which most girls don't have. And I don't really know how to explain it, but your betta just has a male body shape. Maybe some more pictures (curtsey of Aquabid) would help?

Females:


































Males:


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I think its a male HMPKEE. I have one very similar but mine is grey where yours is showing red. When I bought him I was told he was a female but when I put it in the sorority with 3 other females they started picking on him. I only realised he was a male when I placed him in a jar next to other males they started flaring at each other.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Wow Fenghaug! Thank you for going through the effort to find all these pics for me to compare with. I've looked at Aquabid, but still trying to find my way around that site. Looking at these does make me lean more towards boy again. Blanca does have an anal fin more like the males pictured & her ventral look like that last males. Never before had a male that would not flare at other boys, but this one could be different.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

No problem, I practically sit on that site all day. xD Some males are really mellow and it takes a lot of effort to get them to fully flare. But flaring isn't really a definite sign of being male anyway, since females flare too.


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## percyfyshshelley (Feb 26, 2013)

Ok male or female I don't know, but omg those aquabid fish! The last one!!! And justmel, you have a gorgeous fish as well!


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes, I should have thought of it all before. I knew Petco messed up when they label her as a VT and sold her for $3 that they might have got more wrong. It never crossed my mind until I put her in a sorority, which ended up having to be broke up. Since then I've been trying to figure her out. If it turns out Blanca is a male does it look like (s)he'd be breedable. I know a better picture of her flared would be better to judge by, but with these pics can anyone see anything wrong with this betta? I got lucky enough getting an EE at that price, it'd be pushing my luck to get one from the LPS I could breed too. Still, I guess I may be in the market for a mate for this betta. Besides an EE what can EE's be breed with? I'm guessing HM, PK, & maybe HMPK?


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

All tail/fin types can be bred with other tail/fin types. There's nothing biologically different about them; they're all the same, all one species and breed. One comparison between a regular pectoral fish and an EE pectoral fish would be like having two of the same breed of dog, one being a short hair and one being a long hair. It's just that the EE trait is extremely recessive so you would want to breed two EEs rather than an EE and a regular for a better chance of getting more.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes, I think I've figured that part out. If I'm understanding things correctly, if I breed this EE with a HM the fry would be debatable because both are recessive traits. But if I take an offspring from that spawning and breed it with my EE I would likely get some EE fry & if I breed some of that batch of fry with a HM I would get some HM fry. Then I would need to take a fry from each of those batches & breeding them together should lead to some HMEE fry.

My daughter just looked at me & said 'huh'? when I tried to explain it, but I know what I mean and I think by f3 I would have HMEE's. I was asking about types I could breed with because I know that some, like RT's have issues that could arise with breeding. I also want to make sure any fish I breed are desirable by other. I have 16 bettas already. I'm reaching my limit. Personally I won't be doing a lot of culling, unless its for the fish benefit, so if I breed a lot of weird looking bettas I don't want to think how many I might end up with! lol


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

I think you might be confusing EE with a tail type. The EE trait doesn't have anything to with what tail type you get as far as I know. There could be HMEE, PKEE, HMPKEE, DeTEE, DTEE, VTEE, CTEE, etc; although, you do see the PKEE, HMEE, and HMPKEE more (but that is simply because that is what most breeders go for). Whether you'll get HMs or not will depend on what tail type "Bianca" is (looks like a HM or a DeT) and what tail type you breed him/her with.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

I have never seen Blanca's tail reach a full 180. This betta does not flare much, but I have seen it flare & it's close but not 180. Everyone keeps saying HMPKEE though. Going to have to go find a DeT to see what that one is. I'm still learning all the abbreviations & that one does have me stumped. I thought it might be a delta tail, but I was told no on that one somewhere along the line.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

DeT is delta tail. That is a betta that has straight tail edges like a halfmoon, but not a full 180 degree spread. A SDet, or a super delta, has close to, but not quite a 180 degree spread.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Fenghuang said:


> DeT is delta tail. That is a betta that has straight tail edges like a halfmoon, but not a full 180 degree spread. A SDet, or a super delta, has close to, but not quite a 180 degree spread.


Just finished searching the threads and finding that out, but I also learned what the caudal is, so all good! So, I could have a SDeTEE male here than. (I was calling both delta & double tails DT)


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm about 110% sure that it is a MALE. Further, the fact that the anal fin comes to SUCH A SHARP POINT confirms this.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Option said:


> I'm about 110% sure that it is a MALE. Further, the fact that the anal fin comes to SUCH A SHARP POINT confirms this.


This seems to be the majority opinion. I was hoping for girl, but a boy will do. Just makes another pretty lady to look for when it come time to breed. I think I will get to know my way around aquabid quite well in the future.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you everyone who helped me debate Blanca sex and taught me quite a bit about doing so in the process. (S)he died overnight, so the debate is over for me.


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## percyfyshshelley (Feb 26, 2013)

Oh no! I'm so sorry.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

Male plakat EE


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