# 2 Females together?



## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

I know that this is probably a dumb question, but would it be an awful idea to try and keep two female bettas together in a 5 gallon tank? Just two, not quite a sorority. The tank has not been cycled or tested for any bacteria or anything, but Lotte seems happy and like she could use a tank mate. The tank is filtered and heated, and has fake plants (but only along the back, I'm open to rearrange them though if it would help). This is my 3rd bettas and I've only had her a few days and don't want her to get killed or extremely stressed by an added female. She is extremely timid and it seems unlikely she'd become the alpha of the two. I'm worried the other would bully her though. Oh, and if I got another, it would be a much younger, smaller betta, so hopefully she wouldn't have the guts to hurt Lotte, and Lotte's docile personality would keep her from hurting the other. Thanks so much for being patient enough to read this, and this is my first thread so please no mean comments.


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## rkh4444 (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi FishyOfTheOpera, 

I think it depends on the individual bettas - I'd say you are taking a chance if you do get her a friend, but it might be fine - I have to share my story, in case it helps your decision. 
I had a female and male beta in a 5 gallon tank with a divider - my female was very young when I got her and very feisty. My male was very friendly, and I decided one day that perhaps they could get along (SO Stupid!!) Anyhow, my female bit my male, and I put the divider back in. She ended up jumping the divider the next day, and killed my male while I was at work. I would never say that it is ok to put bettas together regardless of their sex, mostly because I think it is too risky. 
So, the thought of getting a smaller female may not be a good idea - just because one day she might decide to go all diablo. I'm scarred for life after my experience.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah, I figured it might be risky. Do you think a divider would be a bad idea due to the size of my tank and your awful experience in using one? Also, as I said, Lotte doesnt appear to be aggressive in the least bit, but I don't know how she'd react to a tank mate


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## rkh4444 (Jul 13, 2015)

A divider may be fine, just make sure you keep the water level about an inch from the top and that the divider goes all the way to the top of the tank, and you have a lid. If either of your bettas are jumpers, watch them extra carefully. I wouldn't do it again, because of the traumatic episode I had, but also because I thought it was a pain when I was cleaning the tank, and it was kind of ugly.


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

this is a bad idea. There needs to be many females in at least 10 gallons. The reason for the need of 5 or more bettas is so a pecking order is established. that isn't possible with only two. I would divide it or get another tank. My divider touches my lid, so jumping isn't possible. 

Please don't put them together. There would be no space for them to get away from one another. 

And welcome to the forum! :wave:


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Thank you for your help btw  I don't think Lotte would have the guts to jump lol, but the other might. Do you know how difficult water changes would be because I won't be cleaning the tank, only doing water changes and leaving the rest to the filter


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

This would be a bad idea because one of the bettas will become the bully and constant harass the omega female. Most likely you'll end up with one dead fish and a triumphant female. 

In a sorority of 6+ the aggression is dispersed between multiple bettas enough so that no one betta is permanently picked on.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Oh thank you Strawberry12. I figured it probably was a bad idea but I was hoping with a divider it could be possible


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

ao, Lotte hasn't appeared that aggressive, but I do know that anything could happen when a new fish is added. Thank you everyone for the help 
Also, is there any way possible I could keep only 2 females in the 5 gal, or is this simply a lost cause? I can't purchase a new tank so I only have this one. I do have a very small fish bowl but I'd feel awful putting the new fishy into such a puny thing.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah I was hoping that if it was just 2 fish, five gallons would do. I do have a few ornaments that might could serve as hiding spots?


Please also answer some of my other questions in the disease section?


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

btw i LOVE your fish name and username. As a teenager my AIM username was littlelotte 

I use a piece of airline tubing as a siphon and have no trouble with water changes.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I watched 2 female bettas chase each other endlessly over a 125 gallon tank  5 gallons probably wont be enough. a few weeks later my friend who owned the 125g tank told me that the omega female had passed. as previously stated, if you divide it it will certainly work!


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

It's usually a bad idea, but I had two absolute sweethearts that got along in a 1.5 for the three months I had them before I establish a 10 gal sorority. There were also lots of plants in there.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Don't do it. It will very likely end in disaster and heartbreak. Divide the tank or get a second tank !


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I agree with what the others have said. In almost all cases, the dominant fish will bully, harass, or outright attack the weaker fish. Even if there is no physical harm being done, the presence of a more aggressive female is very stressful for the fish on the bottom of the pecking order. This high level of stress leaves your two females much more susceptible to disease, which is why (along with a lack of proper quarantine) disease is one of the major killers of females living in a sorority. 

Betta splendens seem to be highly unpredictable fish, and aggression and territorial behaviour often worsens as they mature. This is why young females will often cohabitate without major issues. 

If you are attached to your fish, I personally would not advise you to attempt to keep two females together without a divider between them.


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

+1 to everyone. This can be done with a divider (BTW, a 5 gal is generally considered the smallest tank that you can divide, though it's typically recommended to divide a 10gal if possible.) But please, PLEASE, under no circumstances put the two girls together without one.


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## rkh4444 (Jul 13, 2015)

I used to use a gravel vacuum to do 1 gallon or more water changes each week. I would vacuum one side for about half and the other for about half. Another issue I had was that the water on one side is the tank was warmer than the other side because the divider prevented the water from being circulated really well. I rigged it so that there was better circulation, but it was tricky.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1 to what everyone else has said. 

However, I would not divide a tank that is smaller than 10 gallons. Once you add the divider, the gravel, the decor, the filter and the heater, the actually amount of water isn't that good.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Rkh4444, yeah I thought about that. That's what made me think of the divider as kind of a last resort. I'd also hate to downgrade Lotte's home to only half its size, but I guess anything would be better than that horrific cup she was living in.
Greenapp1es, so it wouldn't be extremely cruel to make them each live in a space of 2.5 gal? I won't put them together, don't worry
LittleBettaFish, yes I've read about this happening. Do you recommend a specific kind of divider for my 5 gal?
SplashyBetta, I can't afford a second tank, so the divider is probably best
kitkat67, lol thanks for that shred of hope! 
Ao, oh wow! Where do people even put tanks that big??? Seems like my little shred of hope is starting to waver...
Strawberry12, lol are you a Phan? And that sounds good!


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

It sounds like you have not purchased the bettas yet......which is the good, responsible way to do it. So I would suggest you just get one female that you really like for your 5 gallon, or one male and leave it at that. One betta in the 5g will be happy. And you will get just as much enjoyment with him or her.
Edit:
I may have misread? Do you have just the one betta now? (Lotte?) If you already have two bettas, you could get a 3g Tetra cube or a second 5g to house each.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

He had it against a wall in his living room. and a 90 gallon on the opposite wall. there was a couch and no TV. I guess the tanks were his Television 

I agree with Terry! There is nothing wrong with only having one betta fish. I have my one and only, and even though I get distracted by other pretty bettas sometimes but I usually succeed in holding myself back!


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yes, TerriGtoo, I have only bought the one in my profile picture. She lives in the 5 gallon. But, while I was buying her, I also fell in love with this tiny, 1 or 1.5 inch female purple Betta. I decided to get Lotte, the one in my profile, though. I'd like to go back and get the female as a tank mate for Lotte, but I started this thread just to see how I could get her without another tank. Lotte does seem happy, but I imagine her to be bored at times due to the fact that she's timid and too afraid to swim through the little toys I got her. I guess another fish isn't the solution though. The female was much smaller than Lotte and Lotte seems like she would be too timid to hurt the female, and the female I was hoping would be intimidated by Lotte's size and not harm her. By the time the female got larger, I figured they would be used to each other, but anything could happen
Edit: Thanks ao, I'm just worried about her fear of her toys... I don't want her to be bored all the time. Lol and that's cool! I might do that  but I guess that didn't end well so...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I wouldn't judge a betta's aggression by the *timidness* she expresses towards a human. 

I had a female baby betta which somehow jumped into a neighboring jar with a sick adult betta I was nursing. She was a pretty chill girl when she was alone, but when she got into that tank, she immediately latched into attack mode, chomped on the poor sick betta's eye and will *not* let go. The poor sick thing died a day later from the trauma


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Ok so what we've got so far:
1) don't put them together without a divider
2)Bettas can have an aggressive side they don't show with humans 
3)Bettas can be happy by their lonesome 

So what would be a good tank mate if I can't put in another female?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Maybe a Nerite snail  or even a ghost shrimp. Only recommended after your tank cycles!

Mine does fine by himself with no tank mates.

He also has plenty of vegetation to "play" in.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Snails and ghost shrimp kinda freak me out... The only thing I'd really be comfortable with would be another fish, like tetras? How would those be? Would they breed or anything? And I can't cycle the tank.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Well, a five gallon is really only suitable for one betta.... Maybe you can upgrade to a ten gallon?

Most other non aggressive fish - unlike bettas - *will* need a school to be happy. 

If you cannot cycle your tank, I would be firmly against putting any other livestock in with the betta. Bettas are much more tolerant of bad water parameters and constant water changes than any other fish.

Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I really do understand the feeling of wanting more fish, I've gone through the same phase when I first started, but I soon learned that improper fish husbandry will only reward me with sick, dead or unhappy fish...


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

as said above a 5 gallon is only big enough for a betta. 

You can try two (you must get two) ADF (African Dwarf Frogs) if you want. You have to hand feed them though. Although ADF really do better in large groups but can do fine in a pair. 

Tetras are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups of at least 6 or more (more is better) and need a large tank since they are so active (at least a 10 but I would again go bigger).

I really only would keep the fish by herself in the tank though. 5 gallons is still small. You also want to make sure that your tank is fully cycled and is holding a cycle steadily before you consider tankmates. Unlike bettas, many other aquatic species are super sensitive to poor water conditions and can easily be killed by something as simply as a cycle crash. I wouldn't consider tank mates until the tank has been fully cycled and holding a cycle for at least 3-4 months or more.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Ok well I guess no other tank mates till I can upgrade to a ten gallon. Could I have a sorority in a ten gallon? I've heard that that's the minimum size


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Yep, you can have 6 female bettas in a 10 gallon  You will need to decorated it heavily either with real or synthetic plants. 

I would look into cycling, you really don't want to do maintenance on such a large uncycled tank cycling is not scary at all!


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Can someone cycle a tank with a fish in it?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Sure you can! 

You can read through this sticky, Although it is recommended you get a liquid test kit, OFL always had good information on cycling without a test kit.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes you can cycle while a fish in the tank. 

Read this on cycling
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=555434

Edit: do not EVER cycle without a test kit. during cycling there can be spikes of ammonia and nitrite that can kill your fish. Having a test kit will let you know when these spikes are about to happen so you can do a water change a prevent them. 

As for sororities. 
Read this thread.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=555434
pay special attention to LBF post on the last page.

Many members on here, including myself do not recommend sororities at all. If you were to attempt one, I would not do it with ANY tank under 15 gallons, although a 20 long would be better. It also MUST be so heavily planted that you cannot see through to the other side of the tank from any direction. Sororities are incredibly stressful environments for bettas. In the wild, when bettas "find each other" they have miles of water to get away from each other. So even if you see bettas grouped, they can still get away. In a sorority, the fish cannot escape each other. So they are constantly on edge. With sororities, you must be prepared to handle and see your fish being chased, getting fins nipped, being in stress a lot. The water parameters also must be 100% perfect. Since sororities are basically ticking time bombs, if the water isn't perfect it can lead to massive illness in the tank. You also must be prepared to separate all the fish if the sorority fails - meaning separate tanks and/or dividers. You also must be prepared to come home to seeing one or more of your fish killed. Females are often more aggressive than males. A friend of mine had a sorority (where all the fish were siblings from the same spawn) where all the fish ganged up on one of the fish and literally ripped her in half while my friend was at work. 

personally, i prefer community tanks with one betta. Less chance of things going wrong.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah I don't think I'll do a sorority. Keep in mind though that I can't afford a lot of this and my mom is my main source of funding  that's why I have a 5gal and not a 10


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

You can always spread the obsession to her, it helps


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yes  what do people do with the moss balls? Ive seen them in stores but don't understand them


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

It's a cute fluffy immobile decorative ball of good algae that minimally helps with water quality


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Oh ok  thank you! They were next to the Bettas at my PetSmart


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I actually find snails adorable. The nerite I've got is a great addition to my tanks. 

If they're not for you though, that's fine. I'll agree with everyone that Betta are solitary fish that really don't need a tankmate. If that's something you're considering though, I WILL point out that Petco has it's dollar per gallon sale going on right now for tanks 10 to 55 gallons. A larger tank would expand your options for additional fish.

I have both a 5.5 gallon tank (most 5 gal are actually 5.5 gal) and a couple of 2.5 gal tanks. When doing water changes, the 2.5 gal tanks actually hold around ~1.5-1.75 gal water after substrate, heater, filter, decorations, etc. The 5.5 gallon holds a little over 4. So, if I were to divide my 5.5 gal each fish would actually have *more* water than they do in the 2.5 gal tanks.

More space is always better though, especially for female bettas. Their smaller fins allow them to move around more quickly, and they in particular will appreciate as much room as you can give them.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah I might upgrade to a larger tank so I can divide it if I get another betta
Edit: does that mean that a ten gallon is only $10, 15 gal $15, and so forth? I don't think my Petco does that


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Yup^^ Bare tanks, no hood or filter or anything. The sizes included are 10, 20, 20 long, 29, 40 breeder, and 55 :-D


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

In my experience, one very important thing with a divided tank is to defiantly qt any new addition for minimum of 2 weeks but longer is always better. You wouldn't want the new one sharing any diseases with anyone.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yes  I think when I can afford it I'd like to go into breeding. What's the ideal size for that? And the minimum? Also, do you think Lotte's past the breeding age? I got her from PetSmart about a week ago and she is about 1.5 maybe 2 inches long. How do I upload a photo on here? She might have fin rot, I have a thread about it, but I can't get a photo other than my profile picture up


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Anything can happen when a tank mate is introduced. Besides the pecking order stuff, laid back bettas can become super aggressive if a tank mate is added. My male became super aggressive just from seeing other aquatic animals. He went from super sweet, flirt with my finger at the tank edge to constant bubble nest and flare at anyone near the tank and shredding his fins when I got a female (in a separate tank several feet away). I had her cup floating in his tank for an hour or so while I set up her tank, and he got super aggressive with her, charging her from below. He used to run away from his own reflection.


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

Breeding is a whole other ball of wax, you need a bunch of tanks, jars, live food, and time. You also need to ask yourself if you're prepared to feed/clean/rehome/care for 100-1000+ offspring. And potentially have to euthanize some or even all of them if something goes wrong. The breeding section on here has tons of threads and info, I'd start there.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1 to Strawberry.


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

For breeding you'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on heating, food, jars, shelving, tanks, etc. You'll need at least one large rack for jars (depending on how many fry there are and how many you cull) and then more space for breeding tanks.


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Oh well maybe in a few years when I'm old enough to get a job  breeding does seem interesting tho and I wanna do it at some point in my lifetime


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Definently wait until you have a job and a stable income. That's super important  Breeding is very expensive.


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## IslandGirl7408 (May 24, 2015)

ao said:


> You can always spread the obsession to her, it helps


That's what my kids did!


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

Yeah I'll wait till I have a stable job and all


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