# Having a plantmare :(



## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

So I discovered today that the roots of my anacharis and elodea have been rotting. I've been showing slightly elevated ammonia levels last couple of days, and I guess I've found the source.

I think it's my fault for planting them in the substrate too close together. I took them all up, discarded any unsalvageable stems, trimmed above the rot, and after a good siphon of the substrate and 30% water change, replanted a little further apart. I've also ordered some mini led lights to put at the back of the tank (outside, just above the gravel) to get more light to the base of the stems.

My second tank, with exactly the same set up only planted with trimmings, is doing very well and no sign of rot. I'm even growing rotala indica successfully in there. The only difference I can think is because they were trimmings I planted them further apart. It's cycling at the moment, fishless, so ammonia is about 2ppm.

Poor old Arthur must be getting fed up with me... anyway, do you think I've done enough to save my stem plants? I've ordered some Seachem Flourish (not excel as I know anacharis doesn't like it) to replace the micro-ferts I'm using at the moment, and it has 1ml of liquid co2 per day. It's 28l (7.4 us gallons) and has about 2w per gallon for 9 hours a day, the bulbs are aqua one PL11 and there's an additional 1w bright white led I put in at the back of the lid. I'm kind of on the verge of ordering a load of silk plants and completely redoing Arthur's tank, but I really don't want to! The fish comes first though, but if anyone has any 'stem plant' tips I'd appreciate it! There is 1 snail in there that snuck in on a plant... do you think additional snails would help?


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## Lovemybetta11 (Mar 21, 2015)

Quick question, I have two live plants in two separate tanks, how can you tell they're rotting?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You know not to plant the Anubias rhizome, right? Just the roots. I planted a gorgeous, 15" Anubias by mistake and killed it deader than a door nail. Plus, like you, I had an Ammonia spike.

Rotting Anubias stink to high heaven, don't they? No mistaking that smell. Ugh!


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Well I do have an anubia in there but it's anchored, as is my java moss and they're fine. It's just the 'stemmies' I'm worried about, particularly the anacharis as I'm not sure it's going to make it.

Basically, they started going limp and brown slightly from the roots up, when I took them up the roots were black and smelt of rotten eggs (lovely) - but a plant dying from the root up is the sign to look for.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I misread it as "Anubias." That's what I get for speed reading when I don't know how!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I always recommend to float stem plants until they grow healthy, and then replant when they're growing strong. This gives them a better chance at adjusting to your unique water parameters while having access to more light and CO2. 

goodluck!


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Well, it's not looking great this morning... somehow, in addition to the anacharis particularly looking worse for wear, I am now showing elevated nitrite and nitrate levels. Ammonia has gone down a little. I'm assuming this is the dreaded mini-cycle? I don't even know how I've managed that. Ammonia at about 0.2, nitrates at 0.25 and nitrates at 5ish. I've dosed with Prime and will keep an eye on it... since I did a water change yesterday I'm going to hope the bacteria will sort itself out before levels go too high. I'm going to go ahead and float the anacharis as you suggested ao and see if I can rescue it... Poor fish!

Wish me luck.

Edit: ok, have gone ahead and floated the lot, since the healthier elodea came up anyway. Tank now looks crazy. Arthur, bless him, actually seems super impressed with his new floating jungle. He puts up with such a lot from me. I've tried to ensure he has plenty of surface space at front of tank in case he needs to breath... he's not likely to panic/get tangled is he?

Edit #2: I actually took a couple of super-cute pictures... apologies, the anacharis looks EVEN worse in these images due to the light than it does in real life... it's greener than that and the leaves are still attached rather than disintegrating, otherwise I'd have just given it up as a bad job and removed it.

You can just see a feathery tail here as he goes exploring...








And here he is chillaxing


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

Liquid CO2 for aquariums are basically the compound glutaraldehyde watered down, as is excel. Replacing excel with a different liquid CO2 does not make much difference as the active ingredient is still the same. That's likely why your anacharis and elodea (elodea are also sensitive to the ingredient) are going. 

Personally I limit use of excel and excel like products for when I see some forms of algae as it's somewhat effective as an algicide. If you have low light and species that are hardy, liquid CO2 doesn't have much effect in my opinion.

Typically, low light levels at the roots only cause dying off of leaves at the base of the plant while the stem and leaves from the midsection up grows healthy.

If I recall correctly, I do believe I had Anacharis before and my experience with it was that it has a very rudimentary root system and is better as a floating plant.

I wouldn't worry about him getting tangled. I have a mass of floating pennywort and rotala that need to be trimmed and are already bending at the surface that my betta likes to get in the middle of to sleep. There are times I completely lose him up there :/. Plants give way quite easily.


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Dalloway said:


> Liquid CO2 for aquariums are basically the compound glutaraldehyde watered down, as is excel. Replacing excel with a different liquid CO2 does not make much difference as the active ingredient is still the same. That's likely why your anacharis and elodea (elodea are also sensitive to the ingredient) are going.


Ah... that could explain it. Other than the roots, the elodea seems quite healthy, and in my other tank with the same stuff (it's the easy-life easy carbo stuff) the elodea trimmings are super healthy and have doubled in size in the last week, so it seems to be handling it. However, the anacharis is struggling a bit in there as well. I didn't realise this, but that is really useful information. I'm not sure this lot of anacharis can be saved, sadly... I'll give it a few days without the CO2 and if it still continues to die off I'll replace it with some more. In the other tank, I may continue to dose but just take out the anacharis, as that's my 'pink' tank and I'm really rather fond of the rotala. I do want anacharis in the 'green' tank though so I'll stop using the CO2. Since Arthur seems to like the jungle and all I have beneath is anubias and java moss, I'll just carry on floating it. Thank you!

Edit: I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall. I just kept thinking 'why, why am I managing to grow a difficult plant like rotala indica, and yet the stupid anacharis won't take?' This gives me hope that I can get the balance right in each tank


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

I know it's frustrating but don't be discouraged altogether ^^~ To this day I still cannot keep frogbit and I mean, I managed to kill java moss before. If the stem of the plant is still solid and snaps more than bends, then it's likely it can be salvaged, even if it loses the leaves. I checked, I did have anacharis and initially the entire plant melted on me leaving just a few leaves on a piece of stem a few cm long but grew back with a vengeance after about 1-2 weeks. It's very hardy, if the CO2 is indeed what's killing it it will likely pop back. The difference between the two tanks mag be your stocking. As anubias and java moss don't utilize the CO2 as much as a plant like Rotala would, the anacharis is probably feeling the effects here worse while the other tank's anacharis is not as affected. I know my Rotala can handle heavy spot treatment of excel so they probably like regular dosing.


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Wow, killing java moss is pretty impressive


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Pffft, I kill anubias


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

ao said:


> Pffft, I kill anubias


How?!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

dannifluff said:


> How?!



exactly, how?! 
The only other plants I remember killing/ unable to grow was elatine triandra. 

I've also killed azolla and red root floaters during a H2O2, but that doesn't really count


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Lol. I think my anubias will still be clinging doggedly to their individual rocks through the apocalypse.

Edit: oh, the good news is, my ammonia has gone now and nitrates are going down, nitrates going up a bit which can only be a good thing for the plants, so mini-cycle seems to be ending.


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

dannifluff said:


> Wow, killing java moss is pretty impressive


Haven't you heard? I'm very talented~
Ah, it's good to hear the cycle is getting back on track. Hopefully this means the plants are taking up nutrients rather than melting and adding to the increase of ammonia now.

I recall reading in another forum regarding one of the rhizome plants, I'm about 90% sure it was anubias, that had the potential of being a carrier of a contagious disease or something that affects all other similar rhizome species within the tank and kills them all. So there may just be a very good excuse for anubias dying off!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Dalloway: I totally missed a different liquid CO2 and am so glad you caught it. I agree; I use Excel as an algae killer but with low-maintenance plants I didn't see that any difference in growth and health.

When I have stem plants I weight them down and let them grow wild. The Betta seem to prefer them as resting areas to any other plant; even the Anubias I let float for that purpose. If I do decide to plant them ... which is seldom ... I do as ao and let them float until they develop a good root system.

For future reference: Narrow Leaf Anacharis is very easy for me to grow; much easier than regular Anacharis. Soft Hornwort (Ceratophyllum submersum) is also easy. On the other hand, I can't grow other "easy" stem plants like regular Hornwort, Cabomba and Myrio.


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Maybe it's the softer stem plants that suffer 'death by liquid co2' - in the end I took the anacharis out and that was when cycle started to improve so I guess it wasn't salvageable. I had some red cabomba on the way for the pink tank so I will let you know how it does... I am carrying on dosing in there for the rotala indica. I've also ordered some bacopa monnieri for the green tank to replace the anacharis.

Also, I hear you on Betta preferring the stem plants floating... ever since I did it it's like he's in heaven. And the other plus side is it will be a lot easier to clean the gravel!

Edit: I will only put one or two stems of cabomba in though, those things are a nightmare when they die!


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## Dalloway (Apr 13, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I use Excel as an algae killer but with low-maintenance plants I didn't see that any difference in growth and health.


I'm so glad to hear this. I've met quite a number of people who will swear by excel and I'm just sitting here thinking, "But I see no difference with or without it..?" I'll admit in tanks with a lot of competition for nutrients and more efficient lighting, it's quite useful though to maintai a balance. Especially in the beginning when you're getting a feel for timing and dosages. But there is no effect on my tanks that are all low light now with it.
Ooh, I always leave one or two species floating but I've never considered letting the anubias loose! I think I want to try that now.

dannifluff - we use glutaraldehyde to fixate tissues to prepare for observation in electron microscopes apparently (never did the procedure myself). I think it only affects specific species due to their cellular makeup because I've overdosed it with mosses and moss seems to do well. I've heard mixed results of people using excel with cabomba. The general consensus seems to be to acclimate it like you would a valisneria species by using 1/4 to 1/2 dose for a length of time (not sure how long maybe 1-2 weeks?) Then increasing to the concentration you regularly use.


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