# Spawn Log. First attempt. Pics and regular updates..



## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

This is going to be a log for me and others to look at my hopefully successful cpawn. Will be on everyday with an update. I will not be attempting the spawn for another 2 weeks.
So.. My male has been conditioned for like the last month and a bit.. The female I was going to use didn't like the idea, so I recently got 2 new ones to try with. Which do you think would be better??
My male:








Female #1 - (she is VERY fat)








Female #2 - (She is smaller)







Female #2 - (again, the pictures of her aren't great)


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Considering I am very bad at figureing out genetics, especally when it comes to color it is hard for me to even decide lol

I would say female #1 but honestly I dont trust the females that always has the stress stripes.. lol Only because the one I had in my spawn was like that and when her spawning bars started to appear her whole body turns into a darker purple/blue 

Female #2 I would also say her though because she is very colorful and I like her colors.. plus it would be kinda interesting to see how the fry turn out and what colors they have if she was the mama  

But in the end.... I have no clue as to who to pick lol! XD But I wanted to comment so I would be able to keep up and following along


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

lol.. yeah i can't decide either. I am thinking #1 as she is very plump so it be hard to condition her, she is a bit more aggressive though. You can't see it in the picture but her fin are actually a very nice reddy orange, depending on her mood. I have only had these girls 24hrs now so Im still not too sure which one. I am kind of thinking no to #2 as I have another male that I would love to breed her with. But you can breed the same male/female siamese fighter (Betta) more than once? right?


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Of course! My pair that just spawned tonight was their second time (because the first didnt turn out well in the end for the fry) and this time they got even more eggs! So they can spwn many many times, just not repeatedly without being pampered and brought back to health with really good meals and lots of love and attention


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Already has BS eggs to hatch once the pair spawn. Is wondering if it is a good idea to also order starter kits for microworms and vinegar eels?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oh ok.. Well thats good. I wasnt too sure. Thank you


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Some say that bbs will be to big for new born fry so I would, although there is always the choice of egg yoke too which is what I am going to try if its true that the bbs are to big for them at that moment  (never can hurt to try)


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah well i thought it wouldn't hurt to get them just incase and it's supposed to be more beneficial if you have a mixed diet for them. I'd rather give them a few different things to try out.. I am think I will try the boiled egg yolk too, but I heard you can only use that for like 2 weeks? same as Infusoria?


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah it's only for the newborn fry, plus it gets real messy. After 2 weeks they should be able to eat the bbs. 

I noticed on ebay a good deal for 4 different cultures for 5.99 or at least I think that is what he is selling.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walter-Bana...065?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b8d37009

ebay can trick you sometimes.. but if that is it I just might have to get it my self! lol


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Oh wow... Thank you so much for giving me the link too.. Yeah it sounds to me like he's selling all of them. That's awsome. And once you have a culture starter that's it? Isn't it. Like I don't need to buy more than one culture starter of each culture?


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

I believe so, he also sends a paper telling you how to care for the culture. It's a super deal, if only the money would transfer through to my paypal already... lol


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

lol.. Cool.. I have to get my mum to order it for me as I do not have an ebay account. But I think that is a better deal then buying each seperate. I just hope they are good. But the seller seems to have a good seller reputation..


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah, I dont have a ebay account either.. but since I have paypal it works out well. His record on there is what makes me feel comfortable about getting it. I bought bbs eggs from a company on ebay.. sent me the complete opposite of what was in the photo.. but considering the cheap price I didnt make a big deal of it.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oh true.. Well i have a bad feeling that because I dont live in the Us I can't get it....


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

That would really suck if you cant  I guess you can always try aquabud.com Might not find as good of a deal but they have their moment with rasonable prices sometimes


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yep, I cannot. Thats ok. I have found some people that do microworms for $4 and another does vinegar eels for $4 and they both ship to Aus... I will eventually find something. I just hope they don't get it and I find it took hard, I think I will struggle with hatching and harvesting the BBS..


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

BBS should be that hard if you know what your doing  

A lot of people do this to hatch them, and its cheap too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8sNx9zTOnQ


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ahh yes I watched this tutorial, it was excellant. I got everything I need for it the other day. But you have to wash the BBS before you put it in the tank for the fry. I do not recall him saying that, although I could be wrong, It was a few days ago that I watched it and have read so much since then.. Am getting more confused than when I started


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

I just found another person who sells Micro, Walter and banana worms. You can either get them all in a seperate culture or in a mixed culture are they are harvested all the same..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Microwor...117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415914e24d


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

Some people do some dont. I never did with my guppy fry i dont see why id start withmy betta fry. 

I never knew you could have the different cultures together, thats pretty cool. and cheap too!


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok. So food for fry is all set, just waiting for it to arrive. I have BBS (I will hatch myself when needed), microwroms culture coming, vinegar eels culture coming, freeze dired black worms coming and I have Frozen blood worms, pellets and flake. Lots of variety..
I will attach a photo of my tank soon. Let everyone see the spawning tank


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Tank ^...


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

How big is your spawning tank?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

It's only about 13L..


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I reccomend a 65 litre tub...they're big and have worked great for me.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks MrVampire but I have the 13L all set up so I'll let it atm...
Mr.H and Miss Piggy have been in together now for about 22hours. Nothing has yet happened. He has fully reconstructed his bubblenest (which looks AWSOME)... Miss piggy is hiding but I can see her and she still has her breeding stripes. Every now and then H will look for her, do a dance and go back to the nest. I am sick of waiting. Do I just give it longer?
I can't take photos today as there is a bad glare..


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

It's been 25 hours and still nothing... I think I need to take miss piggy out. She will every now and then lose her breeding stripes and just swims away.. sigh


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok... So my female seems to know what she is doing.. She is under the nest waiting for H to embrace her.... She is head down and has her breeding stripes. H on the other hand seems to be a bit confused as to waht to do know. The bubble nest covers one half of the tanks surface (he's done an awsome job).. He swims over to Miss piggy wiggles and jiggles, dances around then swims around the entire outside of the tank.. I have been watching him do the same thing for 4 hours just this morning... Will he eventually figure out what to do? It's now day 3 and he still hasn't figured it out... :$


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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

If she still has her breeding stripes and he is still showing signs of wanting to spawn I would give them a bit more time. 

Jut a question though, it's hard to say by the pics (since they can sometimes be different sizes than they appear) is the female bigger than the male? If the female is bigger than the male (body not fins) then that could cause a problem. If not then they will probably catch on soon  Good luck!


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah she still has her breeding stripes and he is CONSTANTLY dances around at her...
She is about the same size as him, I think maybe just a tiny bit smaller.


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## Fieldz (Apr 6, 2011)

Definitly the number 2. She is more colourful and would have some nice fry I guess. Good luck!


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

:'(
Still nothing... I think I should give up..


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)




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## Ritingyou (Sep 3, 2011)

It doesnt look like he's nipped her much, so it would be fine to keep her in. You have to be very paticent when it comes to spawning bettas. I've read logs where it took a week or two.. and then theres some that are super lucky that took only a day. 

Unless he stops showing interest in her, or starts chasing her away I would keep her in there. It's their first spawn so it will take some time to figure it all out.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I don't think he has, Ive only seen him nip at her today a few times... They are both showing interest and she hasn't lost her breeding stripes.. Its just that he she finally goes undre the nest and stay still for him to do his business he goes and swims the length of the tank and she gets bored waiting and going away. And of coarse in return he doesn't like that and give her a chance and a nip. I put them in together on Thursday (I think).. It feels like I have been waiting a life time


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Don,t give up. Some new pairs can take a week. Give them time.

You're male sounds great - not vicious. He'll eventually figure it out and begin to embrace her.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I hope he does... I think Miss Piggy is rather happy as she is so much more colourful than I expected .. When I purchased her I only picked her cause she was a fatty and looked well fed. But since being in the breeding tank with H I have noticed she has green, red and even sometimes blue through her. She quite a character.
I do have to keep a close eye on her but because she swims ontop of the IAL and gets stuck out of water, silly girl.


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## betaguy (Sep 15, 2011)

any changes?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

nope... no changes... Still exactly the same, but I think H is starting to get over waiting, now he nips a few times if they don't do anything.. I'm thinking maybe to recondition for 2 days or more? try again?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Can a dragon and vt breed together?
Or a dragon and a crown?


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## betaguy (Sep 15, 2011)

i think its just like dogs, it would be a mix but doesnt make a difference. but i dont really know, ive never done this.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

The Dragons you find at Petsmart are just PKs with dragon scaling, nothingtoo different geneticly xD

If you breed PK to VT you'll get VY's that are PK geno( meaning when they breed they''ll throw some PK fry).

I would rather see you do the Dragon PK with a crowntail girl.  You'll get combtails mostly(probably) maybe some CT's. And if you keep working with that like I find CTPK betta lovely(and would love to buy a pair from the first breeding to work on a line myself.


Also- if you buy the pair together it give you the chance to find a good pair. Such as if you find a red dragon you like you can find a cambodian or girl with alot of red.
If you find a white boy you can look for a blue or white girl.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Well the pair I am currently trying to bred (for this log) are both VT but I have a beautiful boy that I got from my local pet shop and he was labelled Dragon and I also have a gorgeous little girl thats a CT.. My boy goes from having a white body with white and red fins to a almost blue body and red and bluey tail. It's hard to explain... I just wanted to make sure it was ok to put them together...


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Please, someone help me!! I do not know what to do. My pair have still not spawned and have been in together now for 6days... My female still has her 'breeding' stripes and my male seems very interested still but is finally starting to become aggressive... Do I leave them a few more days? Or start from scratch??


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

If he's becoming agressive, take her out or he'll tear her to shreds. Re-condition for about 1-2 weeks and try again. 
How are you conditioning? 
What size is the spawning tank? 
How much cover do you have for the female? 
What's your set-up like?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Gloria said:


> Can a dragon and vt breed together?
> Or a dragon and a crown?


Dragon is just a name they cooked up to describe the thick scaling, so it's more of a color gene. They are still splendens and can be bred. The question is; do you want to cross breed CT to a non CT and chance uneven fin webbing.



> Please, someone help me!! I do not know what to do. My pair have still not spawned and have been in together now for 6days... My female still has her 'breeding' stripes and my male seems very interested still but is finally starting to become aggressive... Do I leave them a few more days? Or start from scratch??


I would leave them and hawk eye them - make sure the female isn't too badly beaten. But if you're worried about your female, take her out and recondition. The male may be more aggressive next time, but it's normal.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Miss Piggy is ok, She only have 2 little tears on one of her fins, she still seems fairly happy and has the 'breeding' stripes.
He's not so much nipping at her more than he was he's really just flaring and chasing her more. But I have seen him nip about 4 times in total over the last 7 days... I just feel like 7 days is a long time...
@ youlovegnats... I condition the pair by having them in their own tanks for about 2 weeks each (my male got longer as I had him longer), They were fed 2-3 FBW breakfast lunch and dinner and every few days in swap some FBW for pellets...The spawn tank is only a 13L tank and I have it filled 12cm high... There is alot of hiding places for the female driftwood, anubias, banana lilly and 1 other plant... I also have at the opposit end an IAL (for the bubblenest), there's a thermometre and a heater set at 26'C (it's hot atm here so it's around 28'c)


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok... So I have now removed both male and female.. They in seperate tanks being re-conditioned.. Will leave it a few weeks and try again... In the meantime I may try another pair I conditioned... :$


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## animallover4lyfe (Jul 7, 2010)

Pellets are no good for conditioning. You need to do frozen foods...


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

animallover4lyfe said:


> Pellets are no good for conditioning. You need to do frozen foods...


Read again. They said they also fed Frozen Blood Worms. 

Gloria- That schedule seems good to me.  But try feeding more protein, such as brine shrimp, or mosquito larvae. They have them frozen at Petsmart.


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## animallover4lyfe (Jul 7, 2010)

I did read thanks. I was just telling her pellets arent good for conditioning. Dont be so rude.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

animallover4lyfe said:


> I did read thanks. I was just telling her pellets arent good for conditioning. Dont be so rude.


I wasn't being rude. I merely told you to re-read- all you said was to feed other than pellets- which she is doing. 
Pellets are good for conditioning, as they provide an adequate amount of protein.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree with youlovegnats. Pellets are fine as long as they have the proper nutrition in them.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Thank you everyone...
I would feed other foods if I could but I cannot as my local pet shop only sells pellets/ flake so I have to drive 3 hours to get anything else and they only sell frozen blood worms.. I keep in contact with the aquarium shop 3 hours away so when they get in something different I can get...
I live in Australia, there's no petsmart here.. Only pet shops and aquarium shops.. I live in a small town.. Its hot here atm, but there do not seem to be any mosquitos. I have tried making some larvae..


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@Gloria: You're trying to condition them for a period of fasting during the whole proses of breeding. IMO, you need to feed more than just 2-3 FBW per feeding. Feed them until they begin to slightly bloat (specially the female). They will need the energy.

As for adult food; you can culture them in your back yard. Leave a bucket of water out side - somewhere shaded. Put in some dry leaves and, if possible, water plants. You should at least get some mosquito L and live BW after a few weeks. Just be careful that you don't get dragonfly larva or any other predatory larva and place them in fry tank.... they will eat your fry. 

If there's an ant or termite nest/colony nearby, you could feed their eggs/larva to your bettas...... Look around you and see what you could use....

Oops.... I didn't read your last post. Sorry


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

ok.. So I have decided to give the two a break.. They have been in their own seperate reconditioning tanks for 2 days now... I am going to wait between 1 and 2 weeks.. See how things go and try again.. I am also going to try get some different foods sent to me for the adults... They only eat between 5-8 FBW per day, they don't seem to want anymore, Im thinking they want a big more variety then just FBW and pellets.. Will update everyone in a few weeks


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

Gloria said:


> View attachment 38665


She looks like Rockeeteer, gimme! D: xDD :jk:


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

> She looks like Rockeeteer, gimme! D: xDD :jk:


lol... thanx.. You can't have her but.. She looks ALOT different now..


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

i want her still Dx


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Is a baby bristlenose catfish ok to use as my 'clean up crew' for the breeding and grow out tank?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Any betta can breed with any betta they are all the same species just different tails


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

*New Plan*

So, after no success with my previous try and that female falling ill I have decided to try with another pair.. I have the female 'Tiny' but cannot decide on a male to pair her with... Please help? Who do you think I should pair with my little girl?!

'Tiny'..















'Dragon' with flash on


- unnamed male #1








- unnamed male #2


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

whoops... The last image is of 'Dragon', with the flash on..


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Eh, I wouldn't put anything else in the tank other than a snail. 
Someone on here put a single Cory in with their fry without knowing that Cories are omnivores. ><' It didn't end well.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I'd pair her with the crowntail so you get some crowntail fry. Veiltail is a dominant gene and would probably eliminate the option for most other tail types. I also vote snail for clean up crew


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

No offense, but your bettas look kind of scrawny. Their heads should be smaller or equal to their mid body (width - belly area). IMO you need to fatten them up before breeding them.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

sigh.. I cannot get them to eat anymore.. They have been having about 4-6 Frozen BloodWorms for breakfast, 2-3 Pellets at lunch and between 4-8 FBW for dinner...


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Just keep at it, and letthem fatten up it's part of conditioning. They lookmuch like the condition you get them from the pet store in(well, one that underfeeds rather then over feeds).

If you're fine with viltails thenthat clear boy would be a goof match. You'll get alot of clears and cambodians.

But if you want more color in the fry and want to be able to rehome them easier i'd say the crowntail is nice and multicolor spawns are fun


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

I will keep trying.. Im not really in a rush for them to breed as I just lost 2 females.. But I will keep fattening them..

I'm not too sure what I want to aim for just yet.. I like all 3 males.. 'Dragon' and the cellophane boy are currently making bubblenest and the CT is a bit small.. So i'm not too sure.. Ill give it a little bit, see how it goes.. But if/when I do re-try a spawn I will make a new thread..


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Gloria said:


> sigh.. I cannot get them to eat anymore.. They have been having about 4-6 Frozen BloodWorms for breakfast, 2-3 Pellets at lunch and between 4-8 FBW for dinner...


To get bettas to eventually eat more, I usually feed few but frequently. Eg. Feed as usual in the morning. Every 2-3hours later offer them some more and let them eat all they can. They will slowly eat more during their first feeding in the morning. 

I know this can be troublesome because you'll be feeding them the whole day. But this is the most effective method I know - unless you have live food like ML. They will get used to eating and eventually you will have to limit their rations.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok... I will try, I have to work long shifts the rest of the week, so i will feed them as best as I can... They are VERY fussy atm.. Aren't too fussed on the pellets and i've tried the garlic juice theory and they just bolt to the other end of the tank... But is ok.. Thanks


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

At least they didn't jump out of the water like mine did. LOL


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

:O on no... That would've sucked.. Were/ are they ok?
I just lost my other 2 girls, they died today (i think they both had dropsy or something, im not sure, im a bit confused).. I only have 1 left..


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That was last year. I practically lost all due to water issues which I didn't realize until it was too late. The more I changed their water, the faster they died.

I'm trying new bettas, so far so good. Got careless and lost a lot of 5-10mm fry due to water ... again... hope I don't repeat it.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Oh that's no good... Well I wish you luck  Are you currently in the middle of starting a spawn? What are you doing this year for your spawn?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I ran out of tubs to spawn in. I'm currently growing my fry.

I'm trying giants this year. So far they're not growing as fast as I had hoped. But people say my rate is still normal - 3.7cm in almost 11 weeks (over 2 months).

My regulars .... they didn't turn out as good (form). For some reason all my fry has big anal fins for PK's. Well I guess I just need to do more breeding. I was thinking of crossing to DT but after I thought about it .... I shouldn't add new traits to my collection because I'll be spending a lot on food for my giant babies. Besides I want to know more about giants so I'll probably "experiment" a lot on them.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

You must have a lot of spawn tanks...
Oh cool... Sounds like you've got a good plan and are all set.. I hope the fry grow up healthy and happy (which i'm sure they will)...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks.

My main problem is my tap water often gets contaminated with something deadly to bettas (guppy and neon tetras are not affected). Usually the water is cloudy - but I condition water in big dark drums or tubs and ice boxes thus sometimes can't see slightly cloudy water. As long as I make sure the tap is crystal clear when I fill my containers - my fry should be fine. Otherwise I will lose a lot.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I have to watch our town water to.. Sometimes it comes out brown, but it's still ok to use/ drink etc...
How long does it normally tank for your pair to spawn once you have put them in together?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I put them together in the late afternoon and they spawn between morning to midday. But if I use heavily planted big tanks, they may take a few days to a week, specially first time females.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Another question... Once I add the female to the tank (which will be done using a breeding net for 2 - 3 days) do i stop feeding them? When should I stop feeding them? Only when they are spawning?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Usually the female will eat during the courting ritual. She won't eat once embracing starts. But often the male will not eat during the whole process, sometimes he only eats one or two of what ever food you give. 

So you can feed the female when she's still in the breeding net.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

yeah I thought so but i wanted to just double check... Thank indjo, your such a great help


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Asking a question that im pretty sure has been asked before, but i have forgotten and cannot remember where i found it last time...
When should I start my microworm culture?
When should I start my vinegar eels culture?
How long before I breed my Bettas should I start up the cultures?


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