# Is it normal for there to be a nipping/chasing phase during the breeding process?



## B.E.T.A. (Jan 14, 2022)

1. I introduced the female to the male (but she was in a container ofc)
2. The male built a bubble nest (and he still adds onto it every now and then) and actively flared at the female
3. The female looked interested and very "eggy" so I released her into the tank/tub
4. Hardly any aggression, the male just followed the female, flaring his fins and doing a wiggle dance. 
5. After observing them for a little while, I figure they're good to go, and seem to like eachother, so I leave them together overnight.
6. The next day, I watch the female occasionally go to check out the bubble nest, but I notice that the male tends to nip at her fins more often. He still flares and tries to get her attention, but she's a bit more skittish around him, and the male seems to be chasing her a bit more and sometimes nips at her when they get close. 

Is this normal? I know betta breeding is more aggressive, but should I be worried if the male is chasing the female/nipping at her fins? Based on a previous betta breeding attempt years ago (that I didn't follow through with because the male was WAY too aggressive), the current male I have isn't anywhere near as aggressive, but I'm still a bit concerned because I'm not as experienced in reading the body language. 

The tub is roughly 5 gal., filled up halfway atm, with some hornwort and water lettuce to help with filtration and cover 
The female is still somewhat active. and flares back at the male at times. 
Currently, the male is just flaring and wiggle dancing, but lunged at her once or twice. He adds onto his bubblenest every few minutes
The bubble nest is maybe and inch and a half by 2 inches, under a piece of plastic that I put there
I haven't added IALs yet, but I expect to get them today

I don't want to stress out the female, so I jarred her again in order to protect her from the male in case he is being too aggressive. Maybe I'm just a little too cautious, but again, I'm not as experienced, so it's hard for me to know if certain behavior is to be expected or not. 

Any help is appreciated. Thanks. 

*also, I don't currently have a sponge filter in the tub, but I do see a bit of waste/some melting from the plants gathering here and there. Should I spot clean the tank and top off the water, or should I just wait until spawning is over in order to avoid breaking the bubble nest?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That sounds normal. If female isn't to badly beaten and is still active and colored let them be. First timers may need 3 days of courtship . . . Yes, 3 days of beating for the female.


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## B.E.T.A. (Jan 14, 2022)

indjo said:


> That sounds normal. If female isn't to badly beaten and is still active and colored let them be. First timers may need 3 days of courtship . . . Yes, 3 days of beating for the female.


Oof. Ok. Thanks for replying. Hopefully it's a successful spawn


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## B.E.T.A. (Jan 14, 2022)

indjo said:


> That sounds normal. If female isn't to badly beaten and is still active and colored let them be. First timers may need 3 days of courtship . . . Yes, 3 days of beating for the female.


UPDATE: The male is lunging at the female alot more, and when I notice his body start to tense up, it's like he's aiming for the female's head. Idk what to do. 
Also, every now and then I see the female swim with her head down, tail up when the male starts approaching and flaring at her. Does that mean anything important?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That means she is ready to embrace - spawn. But it's up to the male - is he ready


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## mollyyymo (May 21, 2010)

B.E.T.A., I recently spawned two first-time breeders and documented the process pretty carefully. If you check out my ongoing spawn log (first page), I think you'll note some similarities.

I included the photo of the female after spawning. Her fins were absolutely ripped to shreds in the process but I kept her in because she was still showing willingness to spawn - most importantly vertical bars on her body, not horizontal stress lines. I'll edit this post in a minute and add those photos here.

When I was working on my first spawns years ago I would pull females too early because I was scared for them. It really is a judgment call but I've sort of figured out that there are really two big signs to look out for:

1. Body or head damage to the female, and
2. Stress lines.

Absent those signs you may want to give them more time unless you just have a really bad gut feeling. You can always separate, recondition, and try again if it's looking bad.

Indjo is totally on point (as usual lol) about the female's posture. The head-down, tail-up pose is submissive; she is trying to show the male that it's time to embrace. As indjo pointed out already, it's now up to the male to do his part.

If he doesn't embrace her soon, though, he might just not be that into her. It's hard to tell you what to do without being there watching them with you but I would give them a bit of privacy. Some males (including my dude) won't start embracing if there's a big human face staring at them. Covering the spawning container with a towel can help if they're in a room with a lot of traffic.

Re: sponge filter, don't worry about it. I didn't put a sponge filter in with my current spawn til about week three because I find the water movement can impair fry from becoming strong swimmers. They were in a plastic shoebox, then moved to a 16 US gallon growout bin filled up about a third of the way (which gave me room to add water and dilute any yucky stuff), and only after the fry were mostly consistently swimming well did I add filtration. In spawns where I've put in a sponge filter or aeration too early, I've lost fry to (I think) malnutrition - I believe the problem was that they couldn't chase down their food.

Please keep us posted on progress! If you haven't started a spawn log already I hope you will.

Edit: Here is my spawn log, and photos as promised. Black Dragon x Black Copper HMPK

Female before spawning:









After spawning:









After recovery:


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