# How much API General Cure to use for Betta with Pineconeing/grey tummy?



## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi,

I'm hoping to get some advice on my sick Betta. To give some background, I've had him for about 3 years and he has had one ailment after another. He started out with swim bladder issues then got Popeye, then he got a cottony growth. I was able to treat both but he then kept getting more cottony growths which I think were fungus. He had a bump by one of his gills that would get the fungus often and that gill seemed to stop opening all of the way.

Once I finally had the fungus under control, he now started pineconeing and has a grey area on his underside. It also looks like his skin on the underside has been eaten away a little. 

I was trying to find out the best treatment for this and I think it sounds like it is Wasting Disease. One post I saw recommended API General Cure and Epsom salt. I've sprinkled a little epsom salt in but wasn't sure what the proper dose should be for a 1.77 gallon tank. I also would like to know what the proper dose of API General Cure should be? Would you recommend API General Cure for these symptoms? It is powdered and each packet treats 10 gallons. I haven't used any yet because I want to make sure I dose the tank correctly for the size.

Any advice on the dosing or other help with his medical condition would be greatly appreciated. 

I was also wondering whether it is true that the Pimafix and Melafix made by API is bad for Bettas? This is what the pet store recommended to me and I'm worried that this has hurt my Betta more. I read that the Tea Tree oil can be damaging to Bettas. I have also used another treatment with Melakite Green, which I noticed someone on the forum said was bad for Bettas, is this true?

I have stopped running the filter because it doesn't work without using the filter cartridge and I was worried that the filter probably has carbon which will make the treatment ineffective, is this ok?


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Once they get dropsy (the pinecoing) you cant reverse it. Dropsy is caused by kidney failure or internal bacterial infection.

As for the Melafix, I have used it and they hadn't gotten any bad side effects. I personally dont believe that. I know people say that, but I have never heard a reason why. Maybe there is someone who could explain why.


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

*Thanks*

Thank you for your reply and information. I also heard it wasn't reversible but just wanted to make sure in case it isn't pineconeing but it sure looks like it. 

Is there something I can do to make him more comfortable/improve his quality of life?


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## DiiQue (Jul 15, 2012)

There was someone who posted a week or two ago about their betta pineconeing and people started giving suggestions on the best way to euthanize.. but the owner was persistent and gave something (cant remember what) and the betta got better apparently. Might want to do a search for dropsy. I'll try to find a link if I can.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Microfish and welcome to the forum. Sounds like your guy may be having complications from age. First let me help you with dosing. For epsom salt, the starting dosage is 1 tsp per gallon but you can go up to 3 tsps. You can treat with epsom salt indefinitely. 

For General Cure, get a container that holds at least 5 cups of water and fill with dechlorinated water. Add in the dose of medication (I believe it's one packet) and mix well. Now, add in 1/2 cup of medicated water for every 1 gallon of his tank. For your guy, go ahead and add 1.5 cups for his 1.77gal. Save the medicated water because you'll be doing 100% water changes every day and redosing the meds for the duration of his treatment (5 days).

You can treat with epsom salt at the same time.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi - sorry to hear about your fish. I have had two chronically ill bettas that just never thrived and got illness after illness, though their conditions were good in my tanks. I know how frustrating this can be. 


I agree, it might be age related. And if he's always been sickly, he won't age as well as other bettas who've been healthy all their lives.

Can I ask -what's your usual tank temperature and water change schedule?

I avoid the -fix medications for several reasons, but the tea tree oil issue is the main one. There's better natural and medical treatments for the usual betta ailments out there.. 

Have you ever treated him with a broad spectrum spectrum antibiotic like Kanaplex/Furan-2/Myxazin for any of his illnesses?


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi, Thank you. I have never had a Betta before and was given him by someone who unfortunately used him for a centerpiece in a wedding and so I wasn't prepared for him with prior research and wish I had found this forum earlier and maybe I would have been able to keep him healthier. I worry that his initial sickness had to do with me not changing the water enough. Once he got sick I started changing it every day and each time he has gotten better I changed it anywhere from daily to once a week. 

The temp is usually 75 to 79, is this ok? I do have a heater but he is on the top floor of my home and it gets pretty warm up there during the summer. I can plug in the heater if you think this will help. 

Thank you for the information on the medicines, those don't sound familiar, where is the best place to get Kanaplex/Furan-2/Myxazin? Do you think these would help with what I think may be Dropsy?

Thanks so much!


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Sakura8,
I'm trying to reply to your message but not sure if I'm doing it right. Thank you for the dosing information. Do I first measure out 5 cups of water to put into the container? I think this is what you meant but just want to be sure I'm doing it right. So measure five cups of water into a container and then add the powder packet which treats 10 gallons. Then I take 1.5 cups of it and add to his tank each day? 

Since I'll be doing complete water changes, should I just take him and put him in a cup of his old tank water while doing the change?

I've always used spring water to replace the old water, is this ok or should I use tap and treat with a dechlorinator? Thank you again!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Microfish, yes, for a tank of 1.77gals, that's right. 

Yes, it would be best to move him to his cup while you do water changes, as long as he doesn't get too stressed.

You might find it cheaper to use tap water and use a good water conditioner like Seachem Prime. 

How is he doing?


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks Sakura8.

I'll look into getting the Seachem Prime, thanks for the recommendation.

He seems about the same but I think a little worse. He is having trouble swimming again and has his head near the surface and body almost straight down. I don't know if it is a swim bladder issue again or the new sickness, or both. Thank you for the help.


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Sakura8,

I was just going to treat him but wanted to ask about the dosage you metioned in the earlier posting first: if it should be 1/2 cup of medicated water for every gallon, shouldn't I put in 3 quarters of a cup for a 1.77 tank instead of 1.5 cups? Maybe it has to do with mixing the five cups of water with the powder in a separate container to begin with? Thanks!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Microfish, yes, you can put in 1 and 3/4 cup. I'm terrible at math, especially fractions, so I just rounded it down to the nearest half. Fortunately, a veterinary friend told me that formula and it has saved my life when it comes to medicating fish.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Dropsy is not irreversable, just very hard to stop unless you know what is causing the dropsy. Dropsy is not a disease, but the effect of internal organs shutting down. Fix the problem with the organs, the dropsy goes away. My Nixon's dropsy was reversed and whatever cause it cured... will be 2 years in March since he's been cured (and there are posts on here to prove it  )


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Pitluvs, that is co cool! Too bad Melafix isnt that strong lol And the betta in your sig looks exactly like Bubbles

Micro, I found AQ at 3ml a gallon really helped. Didn't reverse it, but he could swim easier and he got almost all of his cornflour back. Thank god for besties with extra medication


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

I mean color, stupid auto correct


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks Sakura8. Thank you for sharing the formula, math is also not my best subject and I was really worried about dosing it wrong.


He hasn't been moving much but he just tried and has trouble, then his gill started going in and out visably and his body got stuck in a curved shape. He still is pretty much hanging with his head near the surface and body going straight down but has spread his tail fins out more than they were before. He does have a plant to rest on but hasn't gotten near it. I'm afraid that I will stress him out more if I try to move him to the plant.

Would you recommend using a heater while I treat him? I have a Marina C10 that automatically sets at 78 F.

For food, I'm currently giving him Tetra Betta Min Tropical Medley flakes but he is not eating tonight. I'm thinking about switchng back to frozen brine or blood worms. Do you think that will be ok or have any other ideas? I used to also give him Aqueon Betta food pellets but he couldn't get them in his mouth so I switched to flakes and frozen food.

Thank you again for all of your help and advice.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can try the heater, just make sure the temp doesn't go over 80 F. Sometimes automatic, nonadjustable heaters go overboard. I would also definitely recommend trying to entice him to eat with frozen blood worms. I've heard the Aqueon pellets are pretty big. A couple of good pellets are Omega One Betta Buffet pellets or New Life Spectrum Betta Formula pellets. New Life Spectrum Small Fish Formula .5mm pellets are also very good for fish who have trouble with larger pellets. 

Can't remember if I suggested it before but you can also use 3 tsps of epsom salt along with the medicine. Poor guy, I sure hope he rallies through this. If he can stay at the surface on his own, probably just leave him as he is. At least he has the plant if he wants it.

And you're welcome.


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks for this information on Dropsy Pitluvs. I'm so happy to hear that Nixon was cured! What treatment(s) helped him?


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks Pearl 2011. I'm sorry, what is AQ? That is great that it helped him. I'm glad he got his cornflour back I was thinking before I saw your next post that wow, I really need to do some more research because a cornflour must be a very fancy Betta tail or something!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

AQ = aquarium salt. Not applicable in this case. Pearl may have meant epsom salt.


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Ok, good to know about the automatic heater. I always wondered how safe it was. 

Thanks for the food recommendations. 

I put in 1 tsp. of epsom salt when I did the treatment and before I put him back in the tank. Do you think it would be ok for me to add 2 more right now with him in the tank?


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Personally, I experience no problems when I put a betta from plain tank water into 3 tsps right away but that's me; most people acclimate a little more than I do. If you want to be on the safe side, I'd add another tsp now to bring it up to 2 tsps. Wait an hour or until tomorrow morning and then add the 3rd tsp.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

I meant AQ salt, it worked for me, didnt heal him, but it did help him.
If he gets to the point where he is suffering, then you can use clove oil to euthanize him. I did that and Swish was out in seconds. He panickes for about 2 second then he took a gulp then I screamed and started sobbing. About a minute later I looked and I saw absolutely no gill movement. Although you should leave him in for about 30 mins to be sure (overkill, but that me).

Sakura, I spent 1 hour+ getting Swish used to the salt


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks. I added one more tsp. and will do the third in the morning.


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## Pearl2011 (May 21, 2012)

Make sure it is dissolved first, or you could burn him.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I almost never acclimate but that's just me. People, don't do as I do. It may work for me but it might not work for anyone else.


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks, unfortunately I added the salt last night and didn't see this until this morning. This morning he was a the bottom of the tank in the corner with his head up and body down like before but at the bottom. I didn't add the third tsp. of epsom salt because of this and because I was worried about making sure it is dissolved first. What is the best way to dissolve it?

Since he is now at the bottom I'm worried he may have trouble getting to the top but I'm not sure about lowering the water level because the water has been treated. Any suggestions? Thank you.


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## Little Leaf (Jul 7, 2012)

its dropsy, I think you should make your betta as comfortable as possible, as he/she will die soon, there's no cure for dropsy... (sorry if I gave out wrong info, I'm a horrible info giver... ;-


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## Microfish (Aug 22, 2012)

Should I try to continue treatments or do you think this is causing more damage than good at this point?

I don't know if I should lower the water because I'm not sure how to dose the API General Cure with less water in the tank, unless I brought it down to a gallon.

How else can I make him comfortable? Thanks


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

You could mix the amount for your tank in a seperate container then add it to your tank. That way you can lower the water and still have the right amount of meds for your betta. You can use the "extra" water when you do your next water change. I'm thinking positive here.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Microfish, with epsom salt, it's not quite so vital to dissolve it first because it's not a true salt and won't burn. I've also found epsom salt dissolves quite fast on its own, unlike AQ salt (which takes forever and ever and ever). Best way, though, is just to put it in a cup with some tank water and stir with your finger.

Yes, yes, think positive here!


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