# Need some advice on breeding



## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

I need some advice. I am interested in breeding betta fish. This is my first time breeding any kind of animal, I am in middle school & using my mom's account with her. 

I have a male and a female crown tail betta fish... My male betta fish started to make a bubble nest. And my female looks fat, she has a white dot under her belly, she is not swimming a lot and she is eating more. But there are no vertical lines\bars. Currently they are in their own tanks but they can see each other. I am going to get a 10 gallon tank with plants, a heater, and then I am going to try to breed them.... Is there any advise that any of you have for me? It will be appreciated. Thanks! BTW, I live in San Diego county and would love to see someone else's set up if you are open to it!


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## Paolo Osorio (Nov 1, 2013)

Well it's a lot to explain, so I'm not going to do it! I'm sure you will get a lot of people willing to go through it step by step though. What I did when I was first starting out was to look up a ton of stuff on youtube. That's helpful because you can actually see what's going on instead of just reading about it. Just don't take everything "Thai Ty betta" says without comparing notes with other people. His videos are called " learn betta breeding from the number 1 breeder in the world." Some of his tips are helpful, but pretty much everyone develops their own techniques as they go along, and he insists that his way is the ONLY way. Anyway, keep researching!


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you so much!


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## Paolo Osorio (Nov 1, 2013)

No problem. Ask some other people on here, I'm sure there are hundreds eager to fill your head with everything they know.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

You will get hundreds of baby fish. What will you do with them?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Have you done your research? Breeding isn't as simple as throwing a pair in a tank and letting nature take it's course. Here is a stcky with questions that yhttp://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/breeding-betta-fish/breeding-questions-87172/ou should be able to answer if you've done your research. Also, fry cannot eat what adults eat. I'm sure a fw of our breeders will be along shortly to answer more of your questions. Didn't work. Hold on.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/breeding-betta-fish/breeding-questions-87172/


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes, thank you, I have been researching for weeks during my free time. I'm looking for "real person" input and advice by posting here. Thank you! 

My thought was to give them away as Christmas gifts to my co-op and school (about 70 people) and if we have left overs to see if I can start selling them... I would like to have my own business one day, who knows, this might be it! What do you do with your 100s of babies? I certainly didn't think more than 100 would actually live...so that is valuable insight. What containers do you use to keep them separated once that is necessary? where do you get them?

Thank you for your help!


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Through my research I know that the fry need to eat micro worms and Vinegar eels for the first three weeks about... But my local pet store does not sell them. Where do you get yours???


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

Look at Aquabid.com, under the live food section for the food for your fry.
My last pair I breed, I skipped all the micro worms, feed the Vinegar Ells for the first couple of days and then started them on BBS, with Vinegar Ells a couple of times a day.
I really noticed much larger growth without the Micros!
Bill


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

What does BBS stand for?


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

Sorry!!
Baby Brine Shrimp.
Bill


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

thank you!


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

Your Welcome.
Bill


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

I appreciate it.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Is it okay if I ask you questions when I have some more?


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you so much for your help.


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## Champion Betta (Oct 29, 2013)

Hello! I found your post most interesting! I would love to see pics of them, I suspect others would too! Be sure to get an adjustable heater to control the temp of the water. You can also start an infusia culture for the fry. Remember, fry absorb their egg sacks for the first 3 days, so feed them after then. BBS are a good choice, although be sure to not only feed those because it has made some fish have swim bladder disorder. Vinegar eels are good, as micro worms are too.


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

LoveMyGod2001 said:


> Is it okay if I ask you questions when I have some more?


 If you mean me, sure ask away.
Bill


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Ask as many questions ad you want. We're here to help.


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## Paolo Osorio (Nov 1, 2013)

Except me, I don't wanna help. Jk! Btw it's advisable to invest in good breeding stock in the first place, just so it's easier to find homes for all the fry. Not many people want a homely fish. (though sometimes I think everyone feels so bad for those guys at the pet store that they buy them)


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yeah, ask as many questions as you can think of, but try to make them specific to make it easier for us to answer.

For newbies, I'd suggest that you watch as many videos on betta fighting and betta breeding. . . . Just the flaring part. Compare how they flare in the two modes. When fighting, they will flare and hold their position. They might flare/swim left-right, trying to break through. But in breeding mode they will literally swim all over the tank in an "S" style then return to flare again. Understanding their body language is important in betta breeding because males may kill females if either one isn't in breeding mode.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Welcome! First of all you will have no problem giving away juvenile fish to the kids at school-middle school is absolutely perfect. That's where 99% of my culls go. I have two older kids in school and rarely have any culls left over.

First of all know that crowntails (CT)are difficult to raise if you have hard water. The water will often make their spiky fins curl. The only way out of this is to use RO water of 1/2 distilled 1/2 tap water. Both could be costly. If you have hard water you may wish to keep the CT as pets and get a set of HM, HMPK, PK or VT. I know you know what tail types these are because you have done your homework. If you wish to proceed with CT I would like to know what colors they are.

Colors are very important because there is a very specific way to make bettas in colors that will be easy to work with AND rehome. I'm sure you have seen all the Wal-Mart fish. They are usually either red and blue or blue and red.

I LOVE the suggestion of watching the you tube videos on breeding! Do that for sure.


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## BettaBoy51 (Nov 13, 2013)

Be careful not to over feed them bbs because they can develop swim bladder disorder I feed mine micro worms and crushed eggs I got my micro worms from eBay for 3 dollars

For growing micro worms get a container and use a push pin and poke some holes in the top and then put about half and inch to 1 inch of oatmeal add water so it's moist but not to watery then add the worms you bought then sprinkle some yeast over the top of the worms or crumble up some bread and put it over top and then you're done then you should see some worms crawling up the side of the container then drag yore finger or a tooth pick on the side then dip it in the tank and your done! 

Hope that helped let me know how it turns out I'm going to breed some more bettas soon hope it works out good 

-BettaBoy51


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

One of my crown tails are dark blue but when the sun is shining,not directly of corse, he has a silver look on the bottom of his fins.. And my female CT is dark blue as well but when the sun is shining she has a violet color all over her fins... So I am assuming I am going to get dark blue fish right? When I got my betta fish from the store I was sizing them so I do not get a huge male and a tiny female or visa-versa. And it just so happened that they were both dark colored. 

Thank you so much for your help!


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Yes. You will get blue fish with red in their fins. As far as dark blue...maybe and maybe not. The blue color is in the top color layer of the fish. There are a few different kinds of blue as well as a greenish blue in that layer. You could get any of those shades of blue. Now, the red in the fins is considered undesirable.

If you are allowed on Facebook you are welcome to check out these photos to get an idea of just how many different colors a betta fish can come in. Maybe they will inspire you! Go to the photo album named "betta fish". There you will find many many many excellent pictures of bettas.

https://www.facebook.com/CentralFlo...19359243062.1073741828.100006250324668&type=3


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you! I have another question... I got a dark green plastic container. And I cleaned it and then filled it with the fish water only up to about 2 inches and put Saran Wrap over the top and let it sit at the place I want to breed my fish and this morning I checked the temp. and it read 73.6 F. I have read things online and noticed that many people have said that you should have your water temp. at 80-82 F. Is the temp. That I have in the morning okay or do I need to get a heater and set it for 80-82 F??? FYI... I have not done anything else with my fish after I saw that the temp.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You want to be careful with the micro worms because overfeeding them can cause missing ventrals. I hope a breeder will jump in to give more info on this.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

More and more evidence is pointing towards the missing ventrals being more of a lack or proper proteins issue. Worms are only going to have the nutrition that they are gut loaded with meaning they are going to be low in protein if they are fed a high sugar/carb diet as most microworm cultures are. I personally add protein powder to my worm cultures-I think I remember reading the worms don't feed on the culture media that they feed off of the bacteria and yeast growing in the media but I feel like those organisms are probably taking in the protein from the powder. All my fish have their vents and they were fed walter worms for the first two weeks. At week three I add BBS a few days a week and fry powder once in a while. What's nice about worms(micro/walter/banana) is that you can't actually overfeed them. Whatever doesn't get eaten sinks to the bottom and dies after 12hours(micro) and 24hours(banana/walter). Of course then that fouls the water so it is best to do small feeedings. I think the problem lies with feeding ONLY the worms. The fry really need other foods in their diet to grow and develop properly.

73 is far too cold for breeding-I doubt the fish would move much at all much less breed. It's going to need to be around 80.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Okay that is what I thought... About the food I have BBS, pellets, flacks and first bites. Are those good? BTW... The only reason why I go the first bites is b/c it says that it is slowly sinking granule an that it promotes rapid froth and it is a superior nutritional balance. But thank you for all of your help! ( my mom likes the way you teach.)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I knew there was a problem with the micro worms but was unsure of the details.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Most fry won't touch fry powder(first bites) but you might get lucky. Wet the powder before you put it in. That way it doesn't spread way out and make a mess. Some breeders feed egg yolk with good results. Any foods like that have to be removed in about an hour if uneaten or your water will foul up fast. You won't need a pellet for a few months. BBS are really good. Make sure you know how to hatch them. I'd practice. You have to make fresh BBS every day because they aren't any good after about 12 hours. They take 16-24 hours to hatch. BBS are very easy to overfeed and cause swim bladder problems though.

If you are able to get some plants you can grow infusoria and really give your fry an advantage. If you plan on using a plastic container just put plants in and light over the container for 3-4 days. Infusoria are the tiny tiny critters that live in water around plants-they hitch-hike in with the plants. They will grow and multiply under good light and even better if you have some spirulina or alfalfa powder. I just have that stuff because I take those supplements so you don't need to run out and buy that. A smashed up algae wafer or some crushed up grass smashed around and squeezed out in the spawn tub would work too. The teeny plant material feeds the infusoria and the fry eat the infusoria for up to 3 days or so after hatching.


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## Champion Betta (Oct 29, 2013)

Make sure your BBS are alive! Fry won't touch frozen ones.. :-D good luck!


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you for all of your advise!


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## Champion Betta (Oct 29, 2013)

Welcome :-D I'm always there to help!


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

Actually as long as he has a bubble nest it's ok if he needs more bubbles he can make them or at least that's what I read on another thread


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

Oops sorry I posted in the wrong thread? How lol


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

lol No worries.


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

My last spawn of Mahachaiensis got no Micros, just BBS and Vinegar Eels, they grew faster than any of my other spawns that did get Micros.
They got BBS and eels from day 3, plus Infusoria.
I had no problems with them eating mostly BBS.
I am going to be breeding my Opaque HMPKs in about a week, I will see how they do without Micros.
Like anything else in breeding, it is a personal choice.
Someone else here fed BBS from day 3 and said they get really good growth.
Bill


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I also found my spawn that had mw to start also grew slower than my 3 day to bbs spawn. I have no idea why.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

I have a question... When my fry are 10-12 weeks and I need to separate them I plan to put them in containers and give/sell them. how do I keep their water temp. the same/ where it needs to be which is 80-82f? Our house ranges from 66-72f I have heaters for my 2 tanks (for my adult betta fish)and I am going to get a heater for the breeding tank as well.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Get a tub/tank, put a heater in that then fill with water. Then put your jars, bottles, whatevers in to the tub and they will stay nice and warm


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thankyou so much!


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

This is how I separate mine:


A large plastic tub from Walmart, 32oz Deli Containers( got them fairly cheap on Ebay,tub can hold 22 containers, you need 44 for each tub.
Put holes in half the containers,slide them in containers with out holes.
When you change their water, pull out the container with holes in it and put in a new container with out holes and treated water( I have 5-5gal buckets with heated water to put clean water in the new Deli container),total Deli containers needed=66 per tub.
The dividers are silicone cutting boards, cut to fit(also from Walmart).
Keep an eye on the water in the tub, so it does not expose the heater.
You can use jars or whatever in place of the Deli containers, I just use them because they make changing their water easy.
Bill


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

How deep should my 10 gallon tank befor breeding?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think most breeders breed in about 6 inches of water. You don't want it too deep for fry.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Another question, how/ when should I start filling up the water in the tank with fry?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Breeding Bettas - Raising Fry This sticky should answer some of your questions.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes it does thank you.so i put my female in the seperate container but still in the breeding tank and my male is not flaring at all is that normal?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

If they're ready to breed they should bothe be flaring and showing off for each other or flirt swimming as Indjo calls it.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Okay I was just not giving him enough time b/c now he is flaring. 
Does my male have to have a bubble nest before releasing my female?


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## Aryia (Oct 10, 2013)

I heard some males don't build a bubblenest until they need one, but it is definitely preferable.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Some will spawn without a bubblenest.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

Oh okay.

Thanks a lot!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You're welcome.


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## LoveMyGod2001 (Nov 4, 2013)

I just put my female in the breeding tank with the male and they are not fighting or anything. Why? Do you know?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Usually, from what I've read in spawn logs, the male will be busy working on his nest and the female will watch, maybe approach the nest and get chased off if he's not ready. Some nipping and chasing is normal but if they really go at each other like they're going to kill each other then they should be separated. Leave them in there for now and keep an eye on them.


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## Aryia (Oct 10, 2013)

In my experience they take a while to get used to the tank. Both of them are probably checking out their surroundings and will be shy for a couple hours. With my pairs, if fighting breaks out it usually starts after they're used to the breeding tank.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

lovemygod2001 said:


> okay i was just not giving him enough time b/c now he is flaring.
> *Does my male have to have a bubble nest before releasing my female?*



View attachment 257714
View attachment 257722


Hope you can see the eggs . . . no nest. The eggs are scattered (there's a mild breeze). When they're done, the male usually groups them in one area - but without a nest.

Mine usually react immediately when they see each other - either fight or flirt.


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