# More Goldfish Questions~



## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

I want to try goldfish again and since I'm moving, Ill have room to properly set up my tank!


I have a 40 gallon breeder and I'm looking at ranchus. I thought they were the ugliest things until I finally saw one in person. The waddle swim and face =all of my baw. So I must have them! 

How many can I safely fit in my 40 gallon? Right now I have a filter on it rated for 45 gallons, Ill be getting another one for about the same. My tank is also cycled. 

It looks like 2 or 3 would be good, granted I want 3 but I want to double check.
These will be the only fish in my tank. My mystery snail may also go in, but I'm not worrying about that yet.


Can I use sand as a substrate? I know goldies forage so I'm unsure how sand will affect them. All my other tanks house things that I dont have to worry about this X3


Any specific tips for ranchus? I did a crap ton of research and talked to a bunch of people when I was looking at getting ryukins so I know most of the basic goldfish care already. 

Also, is it possible to get ranchus without wens? Im not quite sure if i like those yet X)
Can orandas have long fins? I find them so pretty.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree. Ranchu are adorable!^-^ Now that I've gotten the squee out of my system...

I've never seen a 40 breeder in person. What are the dimensions? How is it compared to a 55 gal?

For substrate, sand is a good choice. Either you want something that is too large for a goldy's mouth or something that can pass through their system unharmed. Sand is a good choice. 

Here is what I would do about stocking: get two first. We know this tank can hold two. Check your parameters (nitrate, pH, ect), and see about what size water changes you need to do to keep the nitrates down under 20 ppm. If it doesn't look like you need really large changes (over 45%) then you could try a 3rd. Those little guys don't need as much swimming room as other varieties. But be prepared, if your water quality looks like it is decreasing too much, you'll have to get rid of one. Overstocking a tank is the death of your fish. I would actually keep out the mystery snail as they have large bioloads, and with goldfish you don't want anything else adding to the bioload because goldfish are already little poop machines. 

One other tip that I don't see very often but might help your ranchus is to baffle the filter flow. With two 45-gal-rated filters running, you're going to have a bit of flow. Since ranchu aren't the greatest swimmers it would be a great idea to lessen the flow with sponges and water-bottle baffles. I did it with my guys (veiltail and ryukin) and is has made a large difference; they no longer fight the flow. 

I wanna say I have seen ranchu without wens, but it's not a common thing. Maybe they were called lionheads or something(?). I also think I've seen oranda with long, flowing fins, but they always have a wen (it's a breed standard). After the experiences I'm having right now with long, flowing fins on my veiltail (finrot like mad), I'm not inclined to seek long-finned anything out. Remember, oranda get much larger than ranchus and you might only be able to keep one in the 40 breeder. In fact, the largest goldfish on record was an oranda.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

I know >w<

40 Breeders are 36 x 18 x 16.
55g are 48 x 12 x 21

So breeders have a bigger footprint if I remember correctly.


Perfect! I love using pool filter sand, so much cheaper. Itll look fabulous with how I want my tank to look as well 


hmmm thats a good plan. I'll probably stick to 2 then, I'd rather have them be comfortable rather than me being visually pleased X) The mystery snail will probably have to stay in that tank since its the only one it can fit in without being eaten, unless I move my cherry shrimp colony to my 30 gallon breeder, which is actually a very real possibility 8D


My filter right now is already baffled so that works out well, Ill be sure to baffle the new one as well ^^


honestly, the wen doesnt bother me too much, I DO however want a fish with longer fins though.

What is the difference between an oranda and a ranchu? I'll probably stay away from orandas if they get really big, I know for sure I want a pair of goldfish since they are social and I wont be there all the time to interact with them.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

All this talk about ranchu is really making me want to get one. Time to use some self control here! I've got the room but not the quarantine space right now. 

The 40B does have a larger footprint, but it lacks the gallonage of a 55 gal. That footprint should be fine for 3 goldies because a 55 gal is fine for 3 goldies, but the lesser amount of water could make it harder to keep the water quality good. 

Keeping two goldies is erring on the side of caution, but it's not always a bad thing. I've got two in my 55 gal (slightly understocked), and I still see problems with them from time to time. I have them separated now because the ryukin likes to nibble on my veiltail's long fins (which doesn't help the fin rot), and they spend almost all of their time at the divider looking at each other. 

Oranda and ranchu are rather different. Oranda have dorsal fins, ranchu don't. Oranda can have long fins, ranchu don't. Oranda will get rather large, ranchu typically don't. Both can be prone to swim bladder problems due to their body shape, and both have wens. 

If you want a long-finned goldfish that stays small why not find a long-finned ryukin? Like oranda, they come in long-finned and shorter-finned varieties. But they tend to stay a little smaller than oranda.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> All this talk about ranchu is really making me want to get one. Time to use some self control here! I've got the room but not the quarantine space right now.
> 
> The 40B does have a larger footprint, but it lacks the gallonage of a 55 gal. That footprint should be fine for 3 goldies because a 55 gal is fine for 3 goldies, but the lesser amount of water could make it harder to keep the water quality good.
> 
> ...




Its the chubby face 


I think I will only go with 2, the way I have my tank set up planned will look better with less fish anyways X)


ah ok, i want ranchus then, I can put up with small tails since I just adore the chub faces lol. 
Ive already tried ryukins before, I want something different this time ^^


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I can't wait to see pictures! I love those little chubby faces ^.^

If I may ask, what happened to your ryukin? Mine have been nothing but hardy.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Itll be awhile until I get it set up, I just moved all my stuff over last night so everything I own is in shambles XD


To be honest, Im not terribly sure.

I came home and my entire tank was dead, I /think/ it might have been an nitrite spike since I didnt have a test kit back then.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I dread the day I will have to move with my fish tanks. I hate moving in general, but with fish tanks I imagine it is so much worse. 

Sad as they are, it seems like we all have stories like that from the beginning of our fishkeeping days. But your tank is cycled now so you won't have to worry about that!


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

It was all bad, i got done moving at midnight so all my fish are still in their cups/buckets. Ill be setting up my tanks when i get off work ^^


Yep, it was before I really knew about cycling and ive been making sure to take things a lot slower this time and make sure everythings done right ^^


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Alright, after getting settled, it doesnt seem like a good idea to set up my 40gallon, due to space and the money to get everything completed on it.

Instead I'll be setting up my 30 gallon breeder, since I have everything needed to get it going already. Would only 1 goldfish be ok in there? I know they are social, so I wanted to double check.

What type of goldfish would be good for this sort of tank, can I stay with a ranchu or should I look at ryukins since you mentioned them staying a bit smaller.

Im tinkering on aqadvisor and it actually says 2 would be good in there but im not sure....


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

For swimming room and biological capacity I think one ranchu would be fine in a 30 breeder. They usually grow around 6 inches and aren't very good swimmers. But one goldfish by itself isn't usually a happy fish. I'm kinda stumped right now. 

Do you plan to have any live plants?


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Since I read goldfish tend to eat them, i wasnt planning on it. Especially since I tend to kill plants X)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd always heard that, too. And I never thought I would want plants until I tried them. Goldfish do have a tendency to munch the softer-leaved plants, but there are ones that work great with goldfish because they are either unappetizing or can outgrow the munching. If you have stock lighting that came with the hood I would add hornwort as it is a great ammonia sink even under low light. Mine can grow up to a foot in a week. If you do want to upgrade to plant-friendly lighting many more options open up: water sprite, anarcharis, and duckweed. All of which goldfish like to eat, but under good lighting they will outgrow the grazing. None of these need fertilizer. 

I started my journey into goldfish plants when I needed extra help keeping up with the water quality. They really have made a difference. This past week I had to remove the plants because of a fin-rot outbreak. My ammonia actually spiked; the plants were eating up that much that removing them had a large effect on the tank. 

I know plants might seem daunting, but adding them in with your little guys might make the difference between being able to keep one or two ranchu.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Right now I have anarcharis and really like that, though others havent gone as well. I stopped trying new plants out when I killed duckweed XD

I dont have lighting at the moment, the top i have is a clear top, made of plastic. Im planning on getting a couple lamps and switching out the bulbs to the better one for plants. (After doing more research lol)

If they help that much I will definitely look into them. I'm not sure how I'll incorporate it into the theme I have set in my head but if I can make it work to where I can have 2 then I'll make it work ^^


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You killed duckweed?  Can you come to my house?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Haha! There are actually a few varieties of duckweed some of which are harder to kill. The one I have is a wimp and will kick the bucket with anything less than ideal lighting. Maybe Bomba can send you some of her teflon-duckweed! It makes a great algae-competitor and goldfish food.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

@Bombalurina
Buaha XD
With everyone complaining about it overtaking their tanks, i could start a business killing it off 

@thekoimaiden
That would be fabulous actually, ill probably set up my tank today and would love to get a headstart on some plants ^^
was thinking of actually ordering some plants online this time. 

Ou speaking of which, do you know of a good supplier of goldfish online? The only place around me that has ranchus has ones that are VERY unhealthy looking and after talking to the owner, he says he just about never gets new ones in.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm currently treating my goldfish tank for fin-rot (and making a mental note to never get the very long-finned varieties again). I wouldn't feel safe giving you any of my plants. I'm sorry. You could try aquabid, tho. I've seen a lot of good-looking plants there for cheap. 

I'm not a fan of buying goldfish online. Because their markings can be so varied, I like to see the fish before I buy. Ergo, I haven't bought goldfish online. The first place I would check is Aquabid. You could also try browsing some goldfish forums and seeing if they know a place or a breeder. Just like with bettas, you're going to get the healthiest fish from a breeder. And another plus of that would be a disease-free fish! You could try PM-img Lupin to see if he knows anyone.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I'd happily send you some of my plants, as they are all annoyingly fast-growing and disease free, but I'm not sure I'd be allowed to ship a bag of duckweed from Australia to the USA.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

@thekoimaiden
Is fin rot contagious? I wasnt aware, I'll have to be more careful treating it from now on x.x
Thank you for the thought of sending some plants though, it's very appreciated ^^

I'm in luck, my friends went to a pet store about an hour away from me and they have ranchus for fairly cheap and they said they were healthy looking. I haven't seen them myself yet so I'll need to see them but at least it's somewhere to start with. I'm also iffy about buying fish online since I can't see them first. 

@Bombalurina
Im not sure the shipping cost would even make it feasible X3
Thank you though!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

It's more like opportunistic. And since I have a rather tough case to kill (having to resort to antibiotic food), I wouldn't want to risk sending anything to you. Especially since you'll have new goldies. Moving is always stressful for fish. 

That's great that you found a store with ranchu! I have to drive about an hour to get good goldfish, too. But I think it is well worth the wait.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Irregardless, the thought is appreciated :*

Yep, I think the longest I've had to drive to get fish has been 40 minutes so far. Looks like I'll be breaking my record lol x3


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

I ended up getting my ranchus a bit earlier than I wanted but I found a place nearby that had really cute ones X)

My tank is set up and cycled already so I went ahead and got them, just need to get some plants going now ^^


Anyways, here they are!

Shimmy:








Pancake:








Both:








Overhead:








Theyre both so totally cute and inseparable. Shimmy keeps tagging along with Pancake and Pancake keeps trying to ditch him, its very sibling XD


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Aww! They are adorable! They look so tiny!! How large are they?


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

only about 2 inches give or take. Im glad I was able to find them so small! ^^

How young do you think they might be?


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

They are adorable!


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Thank you, I think so too X3


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

emeraldsky said:


> only about 2 inches give or take. Im glad I was able to find them so small! ^^
> 
> How young do you think they might be?


Oh my gosh that is tiny!!! They are under a year. Probably only a few months old. Their color isn't even done developing yet! You'll have those guys for a long time.


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## emeraldsky (Oct 4, 2011)

Good, thats what I wanted ^^

I hope the color stays similar though, I really love the way they look now ^^


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