# DT female with HMPK male--what tails?



## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

What tails would one mostly expect with this pairing, and why?


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

DT can pair up with any tail type. Since she was an aquabid fish, probably HMDT or HMPKDT. So I'd guess either halfmoons or HMPKs depending on which she is.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

These are the fish I'm considering, if it matters...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

DT is said to be recessive so theoretically you will get 100% DT geno. But in reality you might get a few perfect DT, though some may have uneven caudal lobes. You will produce regular single tails and those with wider dorsal. All should be HMPK with DT geno or HM-DT-PK.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Double tails can be trouble if you don't know their genetics and how to work with them. They are a deformity and one of the toughest tail types to work with (in a sense meaning to get them right).

With a DTHMx HMPK expect a few generations before you get anything worthwhile.. 
First generation you will get most middle fin sized HMs - they won't be as short as HMPK, but not as long as long finned HM (the DT's long fin HM side will overrule the PK side, but not enough to rule out the PK side completely).. trying to say it in a layman's term here..

A good number will have longish HM caudal fins - won't reach full HM length.. so a little longer dorsal and anal, but shorter tail which can look a little odd.

A few will have closer to PK sized fins.

I would say majority would have the double tail dorsal, or close to it.. wider dorsal (which is why a lot of breeders will bring in a DT or DT geno into their HM line to widen their dorsals some). 

May get a handful of actual DTs - some may be with even lobes, some may have uneven lobes.

You will have some with the shorter DT bodies, which are common - some will be too short and will need to be culled, but others will be just on the side of being okay. The shorter bodied ones do need to be culled as it gets harder for them to swim the bigger they get.

So basically you will need to breed the best out of the spawn back to the parent you wish.. and breed the best of that back to the parent (IE - baby to father to get the HMPK fins, and then baby from that spawn back to the father for the fins, etc).


You can breed them together, but expect at least a few generations of clean up work if she is a HMDT and not a DTPK.

If you want the DT to stay then definitely do some research, as you don't want to breed a DTxDT more than once as it's all kind of messy.. unfortunately the side effects of breeding a deformity to look pretty..


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Wow, that was so helpful, both of you. Thank you so much! If I understand correctly, it would be more okay to breed a DT to and HM than to an HMPK. Is that right? I have bought the girl but will not buy a HMPK for her, then.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

It would be more suitable to breed either a DTHM x HM 

-or-

DT HMPK x HMPK

But that is only for convenience. You can breed the long finned DTHM to a HMPK, but like I said, would take a couple generations to get the fins either long HM or HMPK size.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

+1 Myates, silly me thought Deanna was talking about a DT HMPK.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Indjo and Myates, I feel ridiculous asking this question, but...

How can I tell if the female is DTHM or DTHMPK? The one I showed is a DTHM?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It's hard to tell actually. Unless of course she had extra long fins. You rely on her "label". I over looked the possibility that the DT may be long finned and just assumed it was PK (above post).


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh, I'm relieved it's hard to tell.  The girl I posted the picture of above was labelled as a DTHM, so I will assume that is what she is.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Hm. Well, I did find a HM boy today who has all the same colors as the DT girl....

This is her, then:









And this is the boy I found:









I think from what you guys are saying, this would be a much "easier" match. Am I understanding right?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

You will get lots of interesting colors with them 

The way you can tell HMPK vs long finned HM females is from their dorsal and their anal. 

Ideally, the HMPK female's anal should be even with the bottom of their tail, and their dorsal is a bit more rounded. A long finned HM female, the anal will be a bit longer than the tail and their dorsal is a bit more.. boxy?

Here is one of my HMPK females - used the EE female to show the anal better, but her dorsal was turned in the picture..

The second is of a long finned HM female.. you should be able to see the differences in them to tell - if the female in question is ideal for her type.

Now keep in mind though - you may not be able to tell with the dorsal as many breeders will breed a DT into their HM line to get the really wide dorsals, which makes it hard to tell the difference between the widen dorsals due to the DT geno, or the HMPK dorsal. So you will have to rely a lot on the anal and what people tell you.


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