# Serious case of finrot??



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

This was my sister's fish. About four weeks ago I moved him into his new 24L tank and he was doing fine. A week later I started getting serious algae buildup (50% change every two days and 100% every 4-6 days) so I got talked into getting a bristlenose catfish to help with that, which it has a lot. All was fine until about 6-7 days ago the temp has dropped and he became very lethargic so two days ago I got him a heater. I was told that he'd be fine without one :roll: From what I've read, I'm guessing the temp change to 80 deg from around 68 (eek!) as well as the stress of the new tank has caused this? I initially thought that the catfish might have introduced it.

Since yesterday he has been a lot more active but that's when I noticed his fins. Today he's been looking great apart from the obvious visual appearance.









He went dull and silver underneath before I noticed his fins. You can see that he's still pretty dull but a lot of the silver has gone back to light blue under his head.

















This is his new tank mate. Kenji (my fighter) hasn't seemed too fussed with him but I think that might be a chunk missing? Sorry, the photo's not very clear.









This is his new tank. BTW is it normal for these guys to sleep in _really_ weird positions?? Here he's jammed himself under the ship! He's _always _slept in weird ways. Yesterday he was between the glass and the heater for four hours!

Anyway, I'm new to this so any help with treating what's wrong with him will be great


----------



## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I've never had a fish with fin rot, but from the picture I'd have to say that's it. Daily water changes with similar temperature conditioned water. I believe aquarium salt can help, but I'm not sure on the dosing. You might want to put him in a quarantine container for now, since I'm not sure on the conversion of liters to gallons. A one gal container is what is commonly used for quarantine, that or a small plastic container floated in the tank. This makes it easier to change just a small amount of water, and keep him nice and warm.
I believe higher protein food, especially live or frozen can help with regrowing damage, I'm not sure if it's helpful during the curing phase.

I hope someone can offer more help.


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Okay i'll try that. Looks like 1 US gallon = 3.7L. I have another tank set up but it doesn't have a heater and the water is only 64 deg F so I'll try floating a smaller container in the main tank to keep the water warm. I've got frozen bloodworm and granules so I might try giving him just the bloodworm instead


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm On my phone right now, so when I get on my computer ill go more detailed, but yes, that is rot.
Please put the fish into a "quarantine" container of about a gallon. Change this water every day, aclimating the fish properly each time. Every day and for every change, add in 2tsp/gallon of aquarium salt. Normally, the dose is 1 tsp/gallon, but this rot appears severe. Allow the salt to dissolve before adding. Use conditioner.
float the container in the big tank to keep him warm.
Do not dose salt into the big tank. The bristle nose will be harmed by it.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Ok! On my compooper now, and with more to say.

Your tank is roughly 6 gallons, which is perfect for a betta!
However, it is NOT enough space for both a betta and a bristlenose! 

Bristlenoses can get far too large for your tank to hold, especially with a betta in there. Also, they dont like temps of 27' (80ish'F), which is what youre at. These fish produce a good amount of waste, which, combined with your tank size, has maxed out the tank's bio-load. This creates levels of waste that can begin to case fin rot. So, yes, in a way, your fish did get fin rot from the catfish, but not directly.

They may or may not also need at least one other catfish friend, which is out of the question in your tank size.

I highly suggest you remove your catfish, for both their health! 

As said, putting the fish into QT for no more than 10 days with aq salt and clean water will cure him. Keep the lights all but off, and if you can, keep the temp in the 76-77' range to prevent bacterial growth. 

If you want another great algae eater, consider nerites. You can have three in your tank (theyre small and require about 2-2.5 gallons each). They wont eat plants and dont breed. They stay very small, too!

Good luck.


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Where I live we only have one pet/aquarium supplies store and it turns out that they only have aq salt in massive bags (30kg). The only other thing they had was Melafix which says: "Add 5ml for every 40L of aquarium water. Repeat dose once daily for 7 days. After 7 days make 25% water change. Treatment can be continued if necessary."

I can move my catfish into my other tank which is the same size but made of plastic (it's been sitting for three days with no fish in it, hasn't got filter, heater or air pump). Could I then just treat the fighter in his tank once I've moved the catfish? Also, do I treat him as per the instructions or have you got any other suggestions?

Also, I never really knew about those little snails until yesterday and I'm pretty sure the pet shop's got them so I'll def have to get some


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Only get some if you remove (perminantly!) the catfish.. he really cant live a good life in a 24L tank, especially with another fish. He can get 7inches long!

Id say that just putting the betta into a smaller container is your best idea. You really need 100% water changes to help his fins regrow and to keep bacteria growth at bay.

If you cant get AQ salt, you can use NON-IODIZED salt. Salt like morton brand is non iodized. If you cant figure out 100% if its non-iodized or not, DO NOT USE IT!!! Itll kill the fish!

Take care the cat fish is not exposed to the salt.

As for the melafix, dont use it. Save that sort of treatment for more serious, harder to treat diseases. Melafix can damage a betta's labrynth organ when used at full dose, so if you ever use it, use half or less (better yet, 1/4) the recommended dose.

Salt and clean water will set him right, I promise!


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Mum's got some salt that I know is definitely not iodized as she needed some only last month. I wasn't sure if I could use that instead.

As for the catfish, one of my friend's has decided to adopt him (or her?) and has gone to his new home already. I was told only 3 inches max.

I'll give the salt a go as per your instructions in a floating quarantine container. Hopefully I'll have a better betta soon. Thanks heaps!


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

And like PewPewPew said please move your pleco, they poop so much it's unbelievable O.O my 13" pleco was in my 48g and I was siphoning out a huge pile of poo everyday just from him. It's such a releif not that my friend is baby sitting him for me (while I baby sit her little 5" pleco) in her moms 70g until I get a larger aquarium.


Be careful whenever you move the bristle nose that you watch out for the little spines that can cut you. It helps if you wear gloves when you need to catch them (all pleco's I know of get horribly tangled in nets)


----------



## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

Everyone else has already recommended the aquarium salt and already given you good suggestions. I just wanted to add that I know OFL (OldFishLady) has mentioned ice cream salt works as well when someone was having problems finding AQ salt. Here is her exact quote that can hopefully help you find something that will work: "I use kosher salt, ice cream salt....generally Sodium chloride....you want to avoid salts with the anti-caking agents as these can be toxic to fish with long term use...the trace amount of Iodine in most table salts are not harmful its the anti-caking that is toxic......."

You would probably need about a 10 gallon for the BN catfish and betta to live comfortably. The BN does get big but typically I haven't seen full grown BNs bigger than 5". There are the ones that just happen to grow bigger than that but it is rare. I will attest that they poop a ridiculous amount though. My husband had 7 little ones in his 135 gallon and the poop would just pile up. Fortunately it somehow ended up all in one corner so it made for easy cleanup but it was ridiculous. 

Good luck and welcome to the forum!


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Thanks guys.

I've been working long hours these past couple of days so I haven't been able to post here when I first noticed it early yesterday morn - the poor bugger's got white spot! As I've been doing the water changes late at night I haven't really had the chance to get a real good look at him until then.

Do I need to change anything? Or do I continue with the salt treatment?

His qt water temp is always around 23 -25'C (75 - 77'F) with 100% daily water changes and 2tsp of salt in around 3 1/2 - 4L (about a gallon)

I'll try and get a pic asap but it definitely looks like ich, he's absolutely covered in it


----------



## Murka (May 12, 2011)

I don't know much about that, but here's a good site about Betta fish sickness and stuff. At the top there's a 'Sick Betta' drop down menu with more detail on particular diseases. http://nippyfish.net/sick-betta/


----------



## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

The easiest thing to do is gradually raise the temp to 85. Ick cannot survive at high temps.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Actually salt is very effective against ich. Just raise the temp gradually as iheartmybettas said and continue the salt treatment. You can even increase the salt treatment 3tsp/gallon. How long have you been doing the salt treatment?


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

It's the fourth day today. I just took this pic and I noticed that the spots are a lot smaller than when I first noticed them. They were about the same size as the spots on his face still are. I've also been rinsing out his qt container with hot water each time I change the water to get them all out.

Sorry if the pics are a bit big.
















He's in a small container for when I change his water and get him acclimatised before he goes back in his qt


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

I just noticed that his finrot is still going strong  Do you think I should add an extra teaspoon of salt??

Also, should I put his aeration block in his qt container to help him breathe a little easier?

Once again, thanks guys


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

You should try either 3 tsp/gal OR 1 tablespoon/gal for the next few days and see if you have any improvement. It will be a few days before you so any improvement. For how many days have you done the salt treatment?


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Four days


----------



## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

This link is to a cichlid site, but it's a pretty nice list of active ingredients in medications you can look for to treat various fish diseases. The white spot (ich) looks pretty serious to me, but I am _*NOT*_ any kind of an expert on fish diseases in any way, shape, or form. Things I have read about ich say that when the "spots" fall off it will leave open sores on your fish. I tried to look on AU aquarium sites to help you out but I am not familiar with stores there.
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/disease_7.html

I have not had to deal with white spot yet personally, but the high (85oF...29-30oC?) water temp will help the spots on your fish detach. Where medication can kill it in the water since it looks like it is immune to treatment while it is on your fish. I don't know if you can treat both fin rot and ich at the same time if you use meds though.... I just tossed out the link so if you go to a pet store you can look for a medication with the right main ingredient if that is what you decided on doing.

Best wishes, and I hope your poor little guy pulls through

Edited to add the link to the main disease page: http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/fishkeeping1.html#disease


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ok, just don't go over 10 days with the higher dosage of salt. If the salt doesn't do the job, then use medicine. I personally like Potassium Permanganate but it isn't available in stores, only online. Jungle's Parasite Clear is also effective.


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

*R.I.P. Kenji*

Sad news guys.

This morning I got up feeling better about Kenji. Yesterday he was a lot more responsive, swimming around and coming over to me when I came up to his qt container. His ich was disappearing fast and his finrot was nearly gone, he was even having a bit more food.

But this morning I found him on the bottom  I scooped him out and saw that his gills had puffed out. I'm guessing that's where the ich had gone??

I spoke with my mother and we agreed that when my sister got him he must have been fairly old already. My sister said he was making bubble nests in his little betta tank on the second day and that he hasn't grown much, if at all, since she first got him. He'd been with us for just over a year so he might have been at least 2 years old??

Anyway, I'm going to give everything a good scrub then have a good look around for a new fighter. Possibly a crowntail this time.

Thanks to you guys I now know what to look for and how to look after these guys better, even if it was learning the hard way.

Here's a pic I took just after my sister got him. As you can see, he hadn't grown much


----------



## Littlebittyfish (Jan 5, 2011)

Awe, I am sorry for your loss...


----------



## AKD1727 (May 19, 2011)

Thanks Littlebittyfish


----------

