# lump on left side



## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

Hi
Long time lurker, just joined the forum to ask for your help.
Moxie seemingly just developed this lump where the swim bladder is on his left side only in the past few days and I really want to help my little friend asap.

He's spending a lot of time hiding on the bottom or laying at the top on a (silk) leaf. He's swimming pretty badly but he's begging for food as normal. He chewed up but spat out some of his food today but that might be due to me feeding him garlic juice soaked Omega One pellets (for the first time) to try and boost his immunity. 
Yesterday, it looked like his eyes were popping a bit.
The lump looks almost pointy and today the scales on the lump look a bit shredded. 
The pic is from yesterday, I'll try and take a better one.

_Housing 
What size is your tank? 10g
What temperature is your tank? 82-83
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? 
99% New Life Spectrum Betta
1% Omega One Betta pellets, freeze-dried bloodworms
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3-4 pellets twice /day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 10-20%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Tetra Aquasafe (water filtered by Aquasana) 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.4
Hardness: N/A
Alkalinity: a little high 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? lump on left side of his body where his swim bladder is 
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? less active, stays on leaf close to surface or hides on bottom
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 3 days ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Yes...
2 days ago added PraziPro to tank based on similarity to this thread.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? 
Poor thing came from discount store in a horrible prison with fins shredded, bad color and an injured gill. The water in there was so nasty.
He was constipated once over a year ago, cured by pea protocol. 
For the last 2 months he was a lot less active. Tried everything besides medicine, thought he might be depressed, now I see it was probably related to this lump (I feel stupid). 
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1.5 years since he moved in_


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

More water changes, can not see your well, and IAL/Aquarium salt.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> More water changes, can not see your well, and IAL/Aquarium salt.


Thanks for the response CB.

Thanks for the suggestions but do you think those will help with the lump? 

Sorry about the picture quality, I'll do my best to take a better one.
It is similar in size and position to this picure.

I thought I was doing ok with 10-20% once a week considering the tank is filtered and it's one fish in 10 gallons. What do you suggest?

As I said, I tried praziquantel Fri night and haven't added anything else since.
I don't think it really helped and it's been 4 days. 
What would you do next?
I picked up aquarium salt, epsom salt, Maracyn-2 (couldn't find Maracyn-Plus yet). 
I guess the first thing to do would be a water change.


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

Is his spine bent and is he lethargic? Pop eye could be due to bad water quality, but your parameters seem fine. Bumps/lesions, loss of scales, pop eye, lethargic, and a bent spine could be symptoms of fish TB... If it happens to be TB, unlikely, lower the water temperature, since the bacteria prefer warmer waters. TB is very hard to treat, and it is sometimes hard to stand by and watch you fish suffer...


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> Is his spine bent and is he lethargic? Pop eye could be due to bad water quality, but your parameters seem fine. Bumps/lesions, loss of scales, pop eye, lethargic, and a bent spine could be symptoms of fish TB... If it happens to be TB, unlikely, lower the water temperature, since the bacteria prefer warmer waters. TB is very hard to treat, and it is sometimes hard to stand by and watch you fish suffer...


Thanks again for the response, I really value the opinions of people on this board.

No, his spine is not bent as far as I can see. 
Just the lump on the left side.

Lethargic yes, until feeding time. Although he hasn't been jumping since I noticed the lump.

I'm not sure I was right about him having pop eye. 
I got that impression when he was laying on a leaf close to the surface.
It may be that he never stayed still enough for me to see his eyes up-close b4.
If it is, it is affecting both eyes equally and they haven't changed in the last few days.

I hate playing veterinarian with him.
I came across TB online and it is certainly on my list of possible diagnoses.
I'm not sure if I can rule out internal parasites but the PraziPro seemed to do nothing.
Other than that I guess it could be an infection of some sort.
Or a tumor.

I'm trying to find IAL locally as it seems that might be some help to him.
I wish I just knew for sure because I'm not sure what to do next.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

I added an album with 2 pictures that show Moxie's lump... 
(got my wife a nice camera for Christmas so I put it to use)

http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=5137

I have been changing water 2/week.
I got a bag of IALs and currently have three in the tank - he loves them.
His activity varies week to week. 
The lump didn't go anywhere. 
Is it worth adding salt?
He never refused food.

I'd really like to help him more if possible.
Any advice that might help him recover or feel better is appreciated.

I know he won't live forever.
At what point do I know he is in pain and I have to do something I don't want to?


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't know about anyone else, but it looks like some sort of tumor to me... I would just treat him the same and spoil him


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

To me it looks like DROPSY. Here go to this site: http://www.bettafishcenter.com/Dropsy.shtml

These are a couple images: 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VkRP-IvOkes/ShWPVCBE6II/AAAAAAAAAps/fTw8iOcMw20/s400/JohnstonDJ.jpg

http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/dropsy/pictures/1.jpg


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## LeoTheLakerBetta (Oct 12, 2012)

No that is not dropsy. Dropsy is characterized by bloting in the stomach and "pineconed" or raised scales. Dropsy is fatally quick too; 3 days is pretty long for normal dropsy cases. It is also pretty symmetrical. Moxie, however, does seem to have some sort of tumor. I don't know how to treat this at all but its not dropsy is all I wanted to say...


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

Well im out of answers, sorry. 

But i did do some digging on the internet and most of them said theres continued to get bigger and they eventually died, so i would just treat him like a king for now, but you never no he may live out the rest of his life with no effect.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone.
I was thinking along the same lines.
I might be crazy but I think it originally sprung up out of nowhere, all of a sudden.
Its very weird and I hoped to find some miracle cure.
I can't imagine what it is or why it happened.
Some days I think maybe it shrunk a bit then the next it looks about to pop.
And I haven't seen a bubble nest since this appeared.
I wonder if some kind of steroid could be effective?
Thanks for being so helpful.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Other than the lump he is very skinny. He shouldn't be on what you're feeding. I would suspect internal parasite infection. What does his poop look like?

I would do a large 50% water change now and I would up your water changes to between 25-50% weekly. There's more to water changes than what you can test.

In the meantime get him into some epsom salts - 1 tsp per gallon predissolved and added _slowly_ over an hour. They will cause a drop in your ph. How much depends on how soft your water is and with a ph of 7.4 it's pretty soft. You can treat in the tank or use a hospital tank (make sure you can keep it warm). It won't hurt anything just be aware it's like aquarium salt in that it won't leave the tank without water changes. However, it will not hurt him at all to stay in it long term. Some people say forever but weeks into month+ are certainly safe.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

ok 
that sounds like a plan.
I'll do that tonight (unless anyone strongly objects).
I bought epson salts when this first happened but decided against it in case of stress.
Is it supposed to hopefully suck some of the water out of the tumor?


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm not sure about the poop.
I never seem to see it


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The epsom salts help with swelling, yes.

It might be worth it at this point to QT him (2 gallon acrylic bowl half full works well) and float in main tank for warmth (unless you already have an established QT then of course you can use that). You can put some plants in there for him to float on since he probably needs that right now but leave it bare bottomed so you can see poop. I hate to treat for parasites if he doesn't need it but it would seem like a good bet. I would like to confirm.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

hmm I treated with praziquantel back in Oct but it didn't do anything.
I thought that would kill any parasites.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

How long did you treat for? In my experience with this med it is only somewhat effective (unless you fed it?) on internal parasites and treatment takes a minimum of 3 weeks. 4+ is more common.


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, I used prazi-pro and followed the instructions.
I think I gave it a week in the tank then resumed water changes.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah that wouldn't have fixed anything internal so we don't know

So have you seen any poop?


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## dermotfix (Oct 22, 2012)

Really? Is that true? 
Dammit!
I wish I knew how to properly him treat back then.
So what is supposed to happen when used as directed?
Is that just as preventative?

I'm afraid I haven't been able to see poop. 
I have never moved him since I put him in his tank and I am kind of afraid to stress him. 
But maybe I can do it without using a net ... just slip the bowl under him?

I want to do as much as I can to improve the water. 
The thing I regret most is not vacuuming and I am trying to come up with an easier way to do this. I intend to start vacuuming with a water pump with a filter bag to filter the nasty stuff out.
Maybe this would do the job.

I will go ahead with the epson salts and pick up a bowl to QT him for poop inspection. He is alone in a 10g tank so I could feasibly put the 1g bowl inside it.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Well for parasties I usually use a medicated feed. Some people have had success with baths, but any treatment takes a minimum of 2 weeks and even then it tends to come back.. 3-4 weeks of treatment is really needed with internal parasites and the baths are harsher and not generally as effective. One exception, at least to the effectiveness, is Jungle Parasite clear treated successfully with once a week dosing for 3-6 weeks. One of the ingredients in it is prazi pro but it has like 3 others - it is quite harsh but seems to have good results. General Cure is another one with prazi and metro. You can probably just treat with prazi, but prazi doesn't effect all forms of parasites so that's why generally you'll get a mix. For a bath I would have treated 3-4 weeks, but if I saw no results in 2 I would have discontinued. For feeds I treat a month. You need to treat at least a week _past_ when everything is cleared up, which means an absolute minimum of 2 weeks.

I never use a net on any of my fish. I use a plastic solo cup and submerge it in the water right next to him. The suction from the water rushing into the cup just kind of pulls them gently in.

This is the gravel vac I use: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0KR0598697 It's great and cheap


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