# PETA on Betta



## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

Here is a link to PETAs betta site. http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animals/betta-fish.aspx
Here is an article/blog that discourages fish-keeping period!
http://www.peta.org/issues/Companion-Animals/fish-in-tanks-no-thanks.aspx

It appears they are well informed on proper betta care, however they discourage anyone from purchasing bettas - especially at LPS' - saying it just creates a demand for more.
I was going on their site to see if they even care about betta since they mostly care about furry animals, etc. 

What do you think about PETA's stance on betta?


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

I can't really say how I feel about PETA on a forum like this.

But it's nothing good. They are radicals, and honestly, they would rather bettas all die. The true stance of PETA is that we should not own pets, and all animals should be released to the wild. Any manmade animal that cannot survive in the wild(domesticated dogs with special needs, bettas, cows) deserve to die anyway because they are not natural and have suffered the horrible touch of man.

So, no, I don't like it. They do their research of course. They want people to believe they are really helping animals instead of killing 97% of them. Yes, many of these animals were rescued from bad homes, but people also give healthy, happy pets to them when they have to move, thinking such a good organization like this will keep them safe.


Sigh. It's a shame. There needs to be better animal welfare groups. All the big ones are just... 

Bleh!


The worst part is how many people who are innocent of their beliefs join them to really help animals, thinking they are saving pets. I've talked to PETA supporters before who were..shocked to see some of the quotes from the leaders of the organization.


----------



## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

10 gallons for one Betta? That's a bit, grand. . .


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I don't think HATE is a strong enough word to describe my feelings for them.


----------



## Rjb5584 (Sep 22, 2011)

One of the most hypocritical organizations out there (at least at the higher echelons).

I remember a few years back one of the top leaders had an illness that could only be treated using animal byproducts (don't remember the illness or treatment exactly--I think it was diabetes), and then justified it by saying "well, this way I'll be alive to fight against others using the techniques that would endanger far more animals". The hypocracy is just so blatant and disgusting!

I usually have a bit of a foul-mouth, which I'm trying to work on. Organizations like PETA make it a very difficult prospect.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

they say ''don't swat at flies'' well why not? it's not like they don't carry diseases or puke on our food...
they say ''don't keep pets'' well what else are we gonna do with them? let the poor inocent animals die off? helk naw!
they say ''don't hunt or eat meet'' WELL God put them here for a reason!! wuld u rather us eat our children!?!?! PROBABLY SO! but im sorry, BEEF its whats for dinner.... 
stick it!


----------



## LaLaLeyla (Aug 17, 2011)

I dont like peta at all.
Aren't they against anyone having pets in general?


----------



## SmokeNLark (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree. Words cannot describe my hate for peta. While the idea of treating animals right is wonderful, everything else is bad. They do it wrong, they have warped ideas and are hypocritical. I can't say much more on here since this is a forum with children. 

And the information in the article is not right anyway. Females can live together, males can live singly in a community and 10 gallons is not the minimum tank size. Honestly, I would highly discourage people from believing anything peta says. Where every argument bends facts consciously or unconsciously, peta does it openly, strongly and obviously. They are extremists and are up on their high horse thinking they are going good when they're doing bad.


----------



## Arez (Oct 20, 2011)

PeTA: Notice how the "e" for ethical is lowercase, its the least important part of PeTA obviously. They are sick and crazy in my opinion. Its also sad how they have tried so hard to hide there extreme euthanizing rates from supporters, Im glad that was made clear a long time ago. They are too extreme with semi good intentions. I am a pitbull owner and officially recently a Betta owner, the two of which PeTA has made clear they dont support. Whether they like it or not, Im happy with my little Betta companion and my loving Pitbull companion.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

i LOVE pitbulls, soo cute..... i plan on opening my own Shelter when i get older and i will NOT euthinize animals unless necassary, such as illness, near death, or something of the sort, if it has food agression or companion agression i will work with it to make it better, and warn the possible adopters of his/her flaws, they r always treatable.... they don't need to die just because their previous owners abused them, imo. i love animals, and i HATE ,with a PASSION, PeTA... they r the definition of infectious, life sucking, illness....i think they shld be shut down.


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

What? 10-13 freaking gallons? What? Oh yeah, because Yuuki and Ryu (Who are now in their own 3 gallon tanks) look so miserable. They are sooooooo sick. They're dying!!

But some of those laws they stated, I wish we had those here in America. 

And I really don't think keeping my ghost shrimp in a bowl is distorting their view of reality.


----------



## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

PeTA would rather all our fish die. And for that matter any animal we keep. They also want everyone to be vegetarians which I'm not going to get into the health bit here but the way they do it is stupidly obnoxious. Has anyone seen their "Save the sea Kittens!" site? It implies that everyone reading it is an idiot and also that no one would want to acutally save a fish if you just called it that. 

http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/

Oh man read the Sea Kitten Stories. Specially the second one they /kill/ me. 

"Fragile tropical fish, who were born to dwell in the majestic seas" that seems off. lol.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh my gosh I forgot about their kid stories.

I'm still mad at what they did at our movie theater--There was some kids movie out, I think it was the new winnie the pooh movie. They handed out little gift bags with winnie the pooh toys and stuff--and a booklet of photos of animals being carved open and such. These are three and four year olds by the way. @[email protected] I mean, I'm all for humane treatment of animals, but I'm also for NOT scarring children


----------



## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

@purplemuffin

That would have resulted in a lot of yelling from me to whoever thought that was a good idea. A /lot/ of yelling. No one would get away with scarring my child like that. Just holy carp. :/ Really though the only thing PeTA has ever convinced me of is that they are good at convincing girls to pose in sexually suggestive poses for photos in public. I mean heck you throw PeTA into google image and thats /all/ you get.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

@[email protected]


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Since when are Bettas supposed to live in the sea? 

And that kid book was awful. Its all happy and a sweet story, then you turn the page and this poor fish is being carved. 

Wow. _____ ___ Peta.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Peta pictures r prctically porn, your so correct!!!!


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I showed my 10-year-old little brother. He says it was cute at the beginning, and gets creepy and scary at the end. He said that with wide eyes.

And then we made a Sea Kitten, and named him 'IHATEPeTA!'


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

what is a sea kitten?


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

A new name for fish they made up to make them sound cute. (They already are!) Because we supposedly hate fish.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Peta is dumb, i followed that link too, it was fun to make my sea kitten :3 but iprefer my elegent beautiful betta...... lol


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

My brother is scarred for life. So am I, at 13.


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

well, their just a group of vegetarian hippies trying to make people hate meet. and animals, in a ''careing'' type of hate... idk how to explain it...


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Did you know they want to give animals the right to sue humans? Bunch a bull....


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

how the h*ll can an animals sue humans??? if a pit or sumn id rescued because of fightin then the owner is arrested, thats not good enuf for me but sueing is toooooo far!


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I know, because, ya know, they are totally smart enough to fill out all that paperwork, and make a good argument...


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

AND they can totally hold a pen and name themselves for their signatures, and not to include speak.... GAH! lol


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I know. Its literally insane. 

I bet my Bettas wanna sue me for not keeping them in 10 gallon tanks!!!


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Don't you mean for not releaseing them into the ocean ??!!??!! 0.o


----------



## Echo (May 18, 2011)

PETA tried to bribe a nearby highschool into changing their name from Spearfish High (named after the town of Spearfish) to Sea Kitten High (i am dead serious here) because spearing fish is evil and bad and stuff :shock:

...

needless to say it's still called Spearfish High :rofl:

and every time i get one of those donation pleas from PETA, i stuff the envelope full of coupons for pizzas 'n' other yummy shizz. i'd send ya five bucks, but why? when you can save five bucks on this meat-lover's pizza from domino's!! :mrgreen: we don't want to go wasting paper, now, do we? or that nice pre-paid envelope..


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

I love that!!!!!!!


----------



## Banicks (Aug 20, 2011)

To my knowledge, PETA doesn't have a chapter in Australia. Which is a good thing.

I personally do not like what they represent because it is just too extreme to obide by their wishes. In nature there is a food chain, and we sit on top of it.

I do not condone cruelty to animals. But PETA are extremists.


----------



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Well put, Banicks. They are extreme. They want us to treat animals like huamans, they want them to have the same rights as we do. Voting and suing included. And that is bull. They aren't smart enough. But they do suffer, i'll give them that much.


----------



## Rjb5584 (Sep 22, 2011)

If someone scarred my child like that, cruelty to the animals would be the least of their concerns.

It wouldn't suprise me if the subject material for those gruesome films and photos was actually perpetrated by them--greater good for the majority of the animals and all...


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

My view isn't that animals are in need of 'rights'...animals need better care. More education, better enforcement of treating them right. There are owners out there who abuse their dogs. It's horrible. That doesn't mean those of us who give our dogs the attention, love, and care they need should have our rights taken away because of their actions. 

But threats of violence, supporting known terrorists, and shoving horrifying photos in children's faces ISN'T helping animals. Considering how much money is given to them and the HSUS every day, you'd think they'd be able to donate more to maybe help pets. Just a little even. I see no-kill shelters shutting down around me because they just needed 100 dollars more to pay for their building, but couldn't make it. Those are the people who need our support, the ones doing the work.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I just don't understand it. Would my betta girls in their lush, planted 16 gallon be happier in the wild, where daily food is not guaranteed, a drought may leave their homes empty and they could easily end up in the stomach of a bird?

How can they say my rats would be better off in the wild? In the wild they would live in a sewer or field, hunted, hated, scavenging, cold, unable to be treated if they get sick, knowing they have to provide for themselves and their colony. In my house, they have the run off a whole room, a huge cage filled with soft beds, cosy boxes and dark, clean tunnels changed *daily*, sometimes twice a day, their favourite healthy delicacies available all day, vet care for the slightest sniffle, the luxury of sleeping all day without worrying about predators or having to scavenge, and both ratty and human companionship? Try to tell me my fatty Hyde isn't happy when he boggles like crazy and starts licking every inch of my skin he can reach because that little spot on his fat rump that he can't reach himself is being scritched to perfection. If Richelieu hates captivity why does he come running to me whenever he sees me to beg for treats and cuddles? If they would rather be in the wild, why have they all returned to their cozy, comfortable cage within half an hour during free range time?

Just because some people don't keep their pets well doesn't mean we all do. My animals have the best I can afford, which is far more than they need to be happy. Some people not knowing how to keep animals means that the industry needs to be regulated, not prohibited.


----------



## Arez (Oct 20, 2011)

Well Im really happy to see that even in the fish world, PeTA is known for who they really are. I'm honestly scared of how many (misleaded) supporters they have today. 

I remember watching a documentary on the 'unknown' side of PeTA. They interviewed PeTA supporters. The funny thing is, they found a couple, harrassing a poor local shelter becaues they were a "kill shelter." Sad truth is that these exist today to try and ease the overpopulation of animals.. Hoping one day they wont have to exist... Anyway, the couple doesnt realize that PeTA euthanizes more animals than ANY other organization in the U.S.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I hate PETA. One generation and out is their attitude towards domesticated animals. Never mind that most domesticated animals in Western society live better than children over in third world countries. 

They are just a money-grabbing organization that hides behind a righteous facade. After all, what could be a more noble crusade than standing up for the rights of innocent animals? Unfortunately, most people don't see through to their real motives.

While I was all for the humane treatment of animals and wish there were harsher penalties for abuse and cruelty, I know that isn't what PETA was about at all.


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

PETA? You mean People Eating Tasty Animals.. I sure hope there not eating Betta's.. I bet they wouldn't taste good & it would take like a million to be filling.


----------



## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

bastage said:


> PETA? You mean People Eating Tasty Animals.. I sure hope there not eating Betta's.. I bet they wouldn't taste good & it would take like a million to be filling.


who knows if they do? they sure are forthcoming about their shortcomings as it is. they still love to eat seakittens for all that save the seakitten spouting. i dont mind their betta rules much, 10gal is nice but not everyone can keep 5 10gal (or more) in their house. the rest is nonsense. im glad that spearfish highschool still has the same name.


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

My Pitbull loving self would love to tell PETA where to go. Even if they spewed gold from their mouths I wouldn't support them in any other fashion than to show them the door. *Boots* 

No thanks.


----------



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

Micho said:


> 10 gallons for one Betta? That's a bit, grand. . .


what's wrong with putting bettas males in their own 10g? at least they they didn't say putting a betta in less then 1g is good enough

i have 2 bettas .. each in their own 10g .. all by themselves
another 2 bettas each in their own 5g's

10g isn't really that grand at all .. with all the plants and decor taking up volume and swim space ..


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

HatsuneMiku said:


> what's wrong with putting bettas males in their own 10g? at least they they didn't say putting a betta in less then 1g is good enough
> 
> i have 2 bettas .. each in their own 10g .. all by themselves
> another 2 bettas each in their own 5g's
> ...


Personal preference is all  I personally wouldn't put a lone betta in a 10g, but that doesn't mean others can't. I am sure Micho didn't mean 10g was abuse, just not the norm for Betta owners


----------



## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

i think Micho ment, the fact that they said "at least" a ten gal, was a tad much, they NEED atleast a 2gal not atleast a ten gal... and Micho has hers in a 3 gal i think, and hers are more than likely loving their spaces...


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh, if I had a fiver for every PeTA debate I obnoxiously (albeit awkward) stumbled into for the last 10 years.


----------



## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

S Jones supports PETA!

check out www.iamscruelty.org


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Iams debate.. Okay. Not falling for it. Purina/Eukanuba/Mars. etc. . .Iams should not be fed just as much as most general store brands bc of the content. they MOSTLY all contain corn, animal by-products and the like. . You know, horror story stuff. 

In my opinion, and I wouldn't be surprised if Peta was cutting those dogs in their own facility, the iams "debate" should be put to rest bc Iams is not the only guilty one. 

Holistic and raw is the way to be.


----------



## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

Laki said:


> Iams debate.. Okay. Not falling for it. Purina/Eukanuba/Mars. etc. . .Iams should not be fed just as much as most general store brands bc of the content. they MOSTLY all contain corn, animal by-products and the like. . You know, horror story stuff.
> 
> In my opinion, and I wouldn't be surprised if Peta was cutting those dogs in their own facility, the iams "debate" should be put to rest bc Iams is not the only guilty one.
> 
> Holistic and raw is the way to be.


If your pet food is AAFCO approved then it has been used in medical "trials" with cats and dogs. The rules for the feeding trial appear very loose. The food being tested must merely keep 6 out of 8 seemingly healthy dogs/cats alive for 6 months, these cats and dogs are kept in controlled lab environments (without human attention) and they are destroyed after the trail.

Most commerical pet foods do these trials, but not all, you can find a list of companies that don't on the iams cruelty website.

As far as not wishing to do the research and turning a blind eye, that is a choice you can make as well.

http://www.auntjeni.com/AAFCO_Feeding_Trials.pdf


----------



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

vegan dog food .. aren't dogs carnivores? ..


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't go on any of peta's sites bc they're not a well-informed, researched data base. I guess you were referring to my post as if I fed garbage food to my dog, while I might have at some point in his last few years he only ate Holistic foods. I know everything on the shelf is tested on animals in some way. 
I forgot to mention that the video Peta STILL shows of those dogs and cats in the labs from the Iams site are almost 10 years old. I seen those videos when I followed peta mindlessly as a teenager and they "first" discovered the shocking footage undercover. Because they haven't updated the info via video evidence and real vets/ stats then I refuse to believe them. 
That's entirely my opinion. I didn't want to get involved in this peta debate but the iams thing really threw me. :/ Sorry.


----------



## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

Peta are hypocrites. As I always say, PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

DO NOT suport ANYTHING PETA does or says, PETA believes that humans should not have ANY domesticated pets, no dogs, cats, horses, frogs, fish, NOTHING
They think police dogs are wrong, service dogs are wrong, and ALL working animals are WRONG

PETA is one of the big supporters of BSL (breed selective legislation) which makes it illegal to own any pit bulls, APBT, boxers, mastiffs, chows, GSDs, dobermans, rotties, etc
If you own one of those dogs your dog is taken and euthanized

PETA also euthanizes 98% of their animals.... comapre that to the average for ALL high kill shelters at 60%... PETA only adopts one or two pets every year


----------



## HelloThere123Betta (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't like PeTA either, I'm only 16 years old but I'm smart enough not to get sucked into this crap. Lots of people at my age are all against "the man" when they don't really do their reasearch. Teenagers just like to rebel against society thats why were such an easy target for organizations like PeTA. It's really sad, but very true.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Exactly HelloThere123Betta....
The only reason PETA is still around is because the gear to the individuals who need/want something to fight for.... but dont bother to research it (usually mid-school and high school)

I've been vegetarian for 11 years, went vegan 5 years ago and it SHOCK people that I do not support PETA... and it shock people that I am not "crazy" and rude.... as a "veggie", PETA has given me a bad image


----------



## HelloThere123Betta (Jul 16, 2011)

Yes, one of my best friends is a vegetarian also. Sadly, I think she supports PeTA though...It kinda annoys me but it's not like I'm going to argue with my friends.


----------



## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

Go you LittleBettas  I eat meat personally but I have nothing against vegetarians. Only the loud people who like to yell that I'm evil lol.


----------



## HelloThere123Betta (Jul 16, 2011)

Haha same here. I'm cool with your choices as long as you don't try and force me to follow your rules.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm not vegetarian, but I try to follow a 90% vegetarian diet, only eating meat when I can be sure it's cruelty free.  I can help support the GOOD farms as well as not support the bad.


----------



## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

@purplemuffin

People eat too much meat anyways really. Some of it is healthy. Too much is just bad for you.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Lol, I did it for health reasons (doctor rec. it) and I enjoy it, I feel better than I have in a LONG time, I dont really care what other people eat (my BF eats meat and I cook for him seperate meals) and my dogs eat meat (along with dog food, I make homemade dinners for them... I <3 my puppies, lol)

I did get into a nice fight with a guy... he insisted I was unhealthy since I ont eat meat, I told him wasnt he asked me how I knew, I told him I go to the doctors once a month, he asked me why if I was so healthy.... I told him the truth, when I was little I lost 90% of my hearing, I had tubes placed in my ear and it helped.... but they damaged my eardrums (scarring) so the smallest bit of water ends up with a HUGE ear infection, if I end up with another really bad one I could go perm. deaf... so, hospital once a month to check on my ears and over all health.... 

That shut him up, lol


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm the same, been vegetarian for nearly 10 yrs now and that's my decision. I don't make my bf eat more veggie food but he's such a foodie he don't care when we go to my sisters' (who are both veggie too). What I hate most about my food choices is how other people can try to control it. I am not a vegetarian bc I don't like meat- I eat the fake ones every day- but when I do and someone notices they tell me "You're a vegetarian!".. That's what bothers me. I know perfectly well "what" I am (A **** sapiens) but as for my diet? What does it matter to anyone else?!?!? I have taken more of a sarcastic tone with them as of late (at work usually) and say things like, "really? then please take my roast beef sandwich on me, mom".. And they get it. -_-'

Vegan life is not for me, however. I lived with a girl who went vegan... But went Peta vegan on me.. Harrassing me and her bf for ordering cheese on our pizza etc. . .

Dogs _can_ eat a veggie diet but I would NEVER do it unless they literally were in danger of death for it. Cats should never never never never be fed a vegetarian diet. Cats are carnivores and REQUIRE meat protein to survive. Anyone who disagrees should be smacked.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Laki said:


> I'm the same, been vegetarian for nearly 10 yrs now and that's my decision. I don't make my bf eat more veggie food but he's such a foodie he don't care when we go to my sisters' (who are both veggie too). What I hate most about my food choices is how other people can try to control it. I am not a vegetarian bc I don't like meat- I eat the fake ones every day- but when I do and someone notices they tell me "You're a vegetarian!".. That's what bothers me. I know perfectly well "what" I am (A **** sapiens) but as for my diet? What does it matter to anyone else?!?!? I have taken more of a sarcastic tone with them as of late (at work usually) and say things like, "really? then please take my roast beef sandwich on me, mom".. And they get it. -_-'
> 
> Vegan life is not for me, however. I lived with a girl who went vegan... But went Peta vegan on me.. Harrassing me and her bf for ordering cheese on our pizza etc. . .
> 
> Dogs _can_ eat a veggie diet but I would NEVER do it unless they literally were in danger of death for it. Cats should never never never never be fed a vegetarian diet. Cats are carnivores and REQUIRE meat protein to survive. Anyone who disagrees should be smacked.


 

Lol, see, I define myself as a vegan, I am who I am, when a teacher as who I am, I can honestly say "I am Jewish, I am Vegan, I am an animal activist, I am Pit Bull lover, its who I am" though I am against PETA, and I dnt care what people eat, I am against the way slaughter animals are treated (the shelter I volunteer wih has a chicken who fell off the back of a slaughter truck... Sesame, lol, the drugs and steriods given to them causes horrible health problems, Sesame has no ability to move his legs) its bad for the animals and bad for the people that eat them.... and I have met a pig who was suppoced to be slaughtered.... FUNNIEST guy ever, if you want to eat meat thats fine, but the animals should be respected


I HATE it when people freak out over it "OMG I have never met a vegan/Jew before!" its RUDE, and I loose respect when people do it

I had a "friend" wave a piece of bologna in front of my face as a joke.. well, I ripped it from her hands and through it in her face... she didnt talk to me for a long time, but she did say sorry later (we ar still friends)
Im a bit more tollerant to people that doit now, telling that it is rude and disrespectful... though I did have a 12 year old toss a piece of fried chicken in my soup once... and I DID fip out (I had no money and I hadnt eaten all day since I woke up late) the kid did buy me a salad 

Dogs are meant to eat meat, I would never put them ona veggie diet because they are not meant to... just beause they can does not mean they should


----------



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

oh sorrie laki .. i wasn't directing my vegan dog food question at you .. it was from the iams site .. and i really didn't know dogs could be healthy and happy on such a diet .. since i always thought that dogs naturally eat meat .. since my doggie never eats any veggies >.<


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Laki said:


> Iams debate.. Okay. Not falling for it. Purina/Eukanuba/Mars. etc. . .Iams should not be fed just as much as most general store brands bc of the content. they MOSTLY all contain corn, animal by-products and the like. . You know, horror story stuff.
> 
> In my opinion, and I wouldn't be surprised if Peta was cutting those dogs in their own facility, the iams "debate" should be put to rest bc Iams is not the only guilty one.
> 
> Holistic and raw is the way to be.


??+100!



LittleBettas said:


> DO NOT suport ANYTHING PETA does or says, PETA believes that humans should not have ANY domesticated pets, no dogs, cats, horses, frogs, fish, NOTHING
> They think police dogs are wrong, service dogs are wrong, and ALL working animals are WRONG
> 
> PETA is one of the big supporters of BSL (breed selective legislation) which makes it illegal to own any pit bulls, APBT, boxers, mastiffs, chows, GSDs, dobermans, rotties, etc
> ...


Actually, with Breed _Specific_ Legislation, your dog is actually protected under the "Grandfather Clause" which means you can keep your dog as long as it doesn't pose a threat to the community (no dangerous dog on your record) and that you purchase an insurance for over $1,000,000 on said animal. Also, they must be muzzled in public and neutered. BSL gives the government of said area the ability to watch your every move and bring down harsh penalties on the owner should any little thing go wrong (like snapping at a fly). BSL prohibits new bully breed dogs from entering the area and placing huge responsibilities on people who own them. Sadly, only the good owners follow the rules, the very same people who shouldn't have rules to begin with. Although still horrific for a dog owner to go through, it's a little different than how you explain it. If BSL were to pass here, my dog would be "safe" and not hauled from my home and euthanized unless my dog gives them the slightest chance to do so. Either way, it's totally useless.


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

BSL is complete bullshit.. I have owned 4 dogs from the above list.. Most notable a Chow that lived for 18 years that just recently passed (poor chomper).. Never once have I had any dog from that list attack me.. I have however been attacked by a German Sheppard as I was waiting at the bus stop for school when I was younger & my mom was attacked by a dalmatian that we rescued from the shelter.. 

On the flip side my best friend has 3 Pit's.. And they have no kids mind you, but when we go over there they all 3 take the abuse of my daughter playing with them & pilling on there ears & even trying to ride them.. All 3 of the dogs absolutely love it and couldn't be happier. 

Point is the breed doesn't make the dog bad.. Its the owners that make the dog bad.




LittleBettas said:


> Lol, see, I define myself as a vegan, I am who I am, when a teacher as who I am, I can honestly say "I am Jewish, I am Vegan, I am an animal activist, I am Pit Bull lover, its who I am" though I am against PETA, and I dnt care what people eat, I am against the way slaughter animals are treated (the shelter I volunteer wih has a chicken who fell off the back of a slaughter truck... Sesame, lol, the drugs and steriods given to them causes horrible health problems, Sesame has no ability to move his legs) its bad for the animals and bad for the people that eat them.... and I have met a pig who was suppoced to be slaughtered.... FUNNIEST guy ever, if you want to eat meat thats fine, but the animals should be respected
> 
> 
> I HATE it when people freak out over it "OMG I have never met a vegan/Jew before!" its RUDE, and I loose respect when people do it
> ...


if you got a chicken off the slaughter truck & it couldn't move its legs its got nothing to do with anything they were giving the chicken.. its got to do with the breed itself. As most of the chicken consumed in the US is Cornish Cross.. My family eats alot of meat & we prefer to raise it ourselves when possible. Well last summer we decided to try our hand at meat chickens (as well as the flock of egg laying chickens we already had). We got Cornish cross chicks at less then 2 days old.. We attempted to let them free range on my dad's property just as we did all the egg chickens & quickly realized that they refused to go anywhere.. They would literally sit down in-front of the feeder bins & stay there all day, eating from one end & crapping out the other. Most of them didn't even grow proper feather covering either. These birds were certainly given no chemicals or steroids at all, but they still wouldn't walk other then to occasionally get a drink. They wouldn't stand of scared either & they wouldn't put themselves up in the coop for bed. Its simply what they are. Being an intentional genetic mutation that makes them grow fast & be docile. 

We also raise our own pigs every year & they are a ton of fun. Each one has its own personality & likes to play. They are also well spoiled each & ever day till its time for them to be processed. 

As for being Vegan I have a serious question. As you stated it was the treatment of animals you disagreed with which I can completely respect, will you eat eggs from home raised free range chickens? I have had 2 friends that were vegans what would eat the eggs I gave them because the chickens were not mistreated in any way. They were in fact receiving daily doses of 4 year old snuggle time from my daughter & had no worries at all.


----------



## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

^ many chickens in the meat industry are also bred to be heavy set to make walking harder. pretty sad if you ask me, they couldnt even walk far if they wanted to because their legs arent strong enough. they may move in thier early months but once the weight starts to rise they lose the ability to stand walk and often remain sitting for the rest of their lives.


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Simply defined, a vegan is someone who does not consume ANY animal product. So your friends were not vegan if they consumed your eggs. By definition they were lacto-ovo vegetarians. But that's not really important. 

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian bc 1. I love a lot of real dairy items in which the vegan substitute is not my thing. . . and 2. I'm too poor to be a vegan. I love eggs and cheese and baked goods. 

I totally respect people who want to eat meat and are conscous of what they buy and where. The best way is raising your own food animals bc they get to live a real life and die happy. Plus, I used to think it cowardly, though immediately necessary in urban centers, to buy prepared meat at the store. Most people who eat meat wouldn't enjoy the way it was prepared and I always thought lowly of those people who paid others to have it done for them... I even hated my own parents for claiming to love animals yet, unable to look at a dying cow before they ate one. THAT is what peta made me (when I was an impressionable kid)..


----------



## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

i do find the meat industry rather unethical in the ways they go about it. im not vegetarian or anything but i eat any sort of food without much distinguishing. though i do find the meat induetry is rather twisted, so much so i cant really be bothered to avoid it. i do find it stupid that companies pump healthy animals with drugs so much they grow immune and affect us when we need lifesaving medicine only to find drug tolerance bc the meat we eat. the method of dealing with tainted meat on the factory floor is also warped and expensive. instead of putting the animal on natural food ie grass rather than corn based meals. a sick herd of cattle can get rid of any potential health danger just by taking them off the corn based diet for 2 weeks. the only problem to the company is that they shed the excess muscle from the corn based meal too much, cutting their profit margin. that may also be true for indusutry chicken but they probably are still predestined to weaker leg muscles.


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

Laki said:


> Simply defined, a vegan is someone who does not consume ANY animal product. So your friends were not vegan if they consumed your eggs. By definition they were lacto-ovo vegetarians. But that's not really important.
> 
> I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian bc 1. I love a lot of real dairy items in which the vegan substitute is not my thing. . . and 2. I'm too poor to be a vegan. I love eggs and cheese and baked goods.
> 
> I totally respect people who want to eat meat and are conscous of what they buy and where. The best way is raising your own food animals bc they get to live a real life and die happy. Plus, I used to think it cowardly, though immediately necessary in urban centers, to buy prepared meat at the store. Most people who eat meat wouldn't enjoy the way it was prepared and I always thought lowly of those people who paid others to have it done for them... I even hated my own parents for claiming to love animals yet, unable to look at a dying cow before they ate one. THAT is what peta made me (when I was an impressionable kid)..


The choice she made was to not eat the byproducts of any animal that was mistreated... That ends up being vegan with very very few exceptions. The 1st time she had the eggs I gave her was the 1st she had in 3 years.. She was simply opposed to the treatment of production animals..


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Although I'm not a vegetarian now (I live at home and since we eat as a family, I eat what they eat), we always choose the most ethical meat we can. However, when I leave home I plant to become vegetarian. Best case scenario (if I have a garden), I am going to get chickens so I can have truly free-range eggs, because I have seen what "free range" from super markets really is, and it's not much better than battery.
When I'm a millionaire I will have a smallholding with a cow or goat, so I can have my own milk, too.  
Aah, dreams.


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

bastage said:


> The choice she made was to not eat the byproducts of any animal that was mistreated... That ends up being vegan with very very few exceptions. The 1st time she had the eggs I gave her was the 1st she had in 3 years.. She was simply opposed to the treatment of production animals..


 Oh, that makes sense. I wonder if she got any harsh words from people who act like they know more :/ Personally, I don't care what anyone eats. Everyone is unique and diverse and has their own set of rules. 



Bombalurina said:


> Although I'm not a vegetarian now (I live at home and since we eat as a family, I eat what they eat), we always choose the most ethical meat we can. However, when I leave home I plant to become vegetarian. Best case scenario (if I have a garden), I am going to get chickens so I can have truly free-range eggs, because I have seen what "free range" from super markets really is, and it's not much better than battery.
> When I'm a millionaire I will have a smallholding with a cow or goat, so I can have my own milk, too.
> Aah, dreams.


 Gardening is SO easy!!! Wven if your climate does not support certain foods you can always use your basement! My neighbor grows all her own food in the backyard and only buys local for the things she needs. Every year she hosts a "Eat local-garden" feast or something and it's a totally open house and she takes people through to her garden and talkes and oh my goodness I just love her. She's a nurse and goes to places like India and Africa a lot. Such an angel/role model. 

MY other neighbor has chickens- bc here in our city it's legal to keep 3 with certain conditions. And she gives us eggs from them and we can play with them. They're very social animals!! I'm not sure the breed of one of them (black/white like pepper) and her name is Portle. Portle acts like a cat and she has been found wandering the street chasing the cats. I love chickens so much!!


----------



## mattnx01 (Oct 21, 2011)

PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals)


----------



## danifacetastic (Nov 11, 2010)

When I first started with vegetarianism over 5 years ago I supported Peta but I realized they're really radical. They have good intensions but some of their statements are bizarre. I don't find anything wrong with petkeeping if you do it correctly but I hate animal cruelty and that includes ALL animals...even the ones most people don't care about like chickens, cows and pigs. I will never touch meat again.


----------



## dbockrath (Jul 29, 2011)

I made a cute little Sea Kitten with lipstick and a tiara. I named it Lunch.

I think any organization that says "Your dog or cat might very well thrive on a vegetarian diet" is out of touch with reality.


----------



## Arez (Oct 20, 2011)

HatsuneMiku said:


> oh sorrie laki .. i wasn't directing my vegan dog food question at you .. it was from the iams site .. and i really didn't know dogs could be healthy and happy on such a diet .. since i always thought that dogs naturally eat meat .. since my doggie never eats any veggies >.<


 
Well.. Its like Bettas _can _live in a rediculously tiny bowl, but are they happy and healthy? No. In all honesty, a dog can _not _live on a vegetarian only diet and be happy and healthy. They can _live_ on such a diet, but I doubt you will have a healthy dog that is capable of even playing fetch for more than a minute. It has to be absolutely necessary, for the dogs health, if he is only eating a veggie diet. Their digestive system is still surprisingly very similar to their carnivorous cousins, wolves. My dog eats his dog food from Blue Buffalo, but anytime I have veggies, especially things like carrots. I give him veggies whenever I have some to share (his favorite is carrots) because its really healthy for them to have both. (grapes and rasins are toxic to dogs and any fruit with seeds can cause serious digestive problems)


----------

