# 1 m 1 f in 20 ltr tank..



## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

so i have a male emerald dragon betta in a 20 ltr tank tok pitty on a female in lfs and put her in a guppy breeder box in his tank. when she went in he had been clamp and depressed for almost 2 weeks i thoughted he die on me (cost me $55) she jumped out i noticed her free swimming i freaked
she bailed three more time and now is just loose with him for the last three days and NO DAMAGE. hes unclamped and happier. whos says you cat keep one of each together huh?


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## Hopelessaddict101 (Dec 30, 2012)

Abby said:


> so i have a male emerald dragon betta in a 20 ltr tank tok pitty on a female in lfs and put her in a guppy breeder box in his tank. when she went in he had been clamp and depressed for almost 2 weeks i thoughted he die on me (cost me $55) she jumped out i noticed her free swimming i freaked
> she bailed three more time and now is just loose with him for the last three days and NO DAMAGE. hes unclamped and happier. whos says you cat keep one of each together huh?


Sorry, let me get this straight - are they in the same tank?

If so, remove them IMMEDIATELY.

They may look all fine and happy for now, but Betta are territorial fish and they WILL eventually fight. And it could be deadly. 

Please at-least separate them for their own sakes, or yours.

You may also get an accidental spawn.


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## Hopelessaddict101 (Dec 30, 2012)

Sorry if that sounded harsh..
but I cannot stress how badly this can and probably will turn out if it's given the chance. :*(


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## Captain Jim Dandy (Oct 30, 2011)

Hopeless is right, Abby.. I think you are pretty lucky so far, Your male is more passive than some, and may(probably) has love on his mind. If she doesn't quickly respond in kind he may become anxious and violent. If you are unable to separate with at least another large as possible bowl get her back in container and put lid on..even plastic wrap with holes. Yes it is possible you have out of ordinary relationship here, but not likely to go on forever. If you value your fish's health, please look into at least being ready to grab her out, alright?


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## Hopelessaddict101 (Dec 30, 2012)

And also one other thing... they may be passive right now, but it takes Betta a week or so to get used to their surroundings... and then the fight for territory will begin. There is a 99% guarantee that they will fight. And it may not be pretty :/

Please remove her from the tank, unless you can make a divider. You can even just float her in a bowl at the top of the tank, like I do when I get new Betta for awhile.

Best of luck.
xx


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Never, Ever. Keep male and female together.

did you know they give off a "scent" as if to say, here I am, this is me? When in the same tank, even divided, the female can have some problems such as: lethargy, clamping, immune system crash, egg bound. All of which can lead to sickness and/or death. 
Males can become more violent, irritated, or if they are more passive they can become the prey...to the female. They can also start tail biting out of frustration.

I have seen a few people work with this, however their tanks I believe are 20 GALLONS long or bigger, stuffed so full of plants you can barely see anything other than plants, and they have the tank completely cycled, and maintain it every week to ensure the pheromones stay down, and the fish remain healthy.

IF your fish breed, the eggs will die. 1. There is not enough room in the tank. 2. I do not think you have the foods ready at hand. 3. In a small tank, I am unsure if you have an adjustable heater. 4. Ammonia is more present in smaller tanks.

Then, if they breed, the male will attack the female until she hides or dies. Doesn't matter to him. As long as his nest is safe. You do not want that! I've also had manly females that have killed their partner. 

Is that a risk, you are willing to take? We want to ensure you have the knowledge, and the power, to have healthy and active fish. We don't want you to waste all that time and money for these fish, because of something that could have been fixed.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

Until i see an issue there is no reason for me to seperate you all have your own opinions, i have mine, I know my fish. i had him in a divided tank next to a female he almost died clamped and nose in the corner. i put in the 20 lt same thing she was in the guppy breeder box but kept jumping out i noticed and moved her, he clamped up until he jumped again. 

she cruises around the log and plants he flirts with her MAYBE once a day, theres too much current for a bubble nest she has NO DAMAGE after 4 or 5 days neither does he. shes coloured more then when she was in the guppy tannk they are both eating. they ARE HAPPY if it means my $55 fish isnt going to die then im happy to leave them their till i see an issue.

its either that or put her in the female tank to be killed because shes A) smaller then the others nd B) she hasnt got much of a tail (WAS THE REASON I BOUGHT HER she was missing a bit of tail and slowly regrowing.) she actually looks happier too.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You do not need to snap at us. We want to ensure your fish do not die. If you do not want our help, why did you ask?

Sorry for wasting your time with valuable information that puts your fish's needs before anything else.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

THERE IS TOO STRONG A CURRENT for any nest, if i NOTICE A NEST then i will look at the situation.

AND FYI to those who think im stupid (like all of you) I am set up, ready for a spawn (I AM NOT TRYING TO BREED THEM THIS IS NOT MY SPAWN SET UP I AM JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN I AM CAPIBABLE OF LOOKING AFTER IT.)
my lounge/kitchen/dining rooms are full of tank set ups.there is a heater in the filtered 20lt tank there are hiding places and LIVE plants. all my tanks over 15ltrs have heaters and filters.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

your all snappy at me, telling me to remove STRAIGHT AWAY blah blah, i didnt ask, i didnt say is it possible to keep them together i said:

So i have a male emerald dragon betta in a 20 ltr tank tok pitty on a female in lfs and put her in a guppy breeder box in his tank. when she went in he had been clamp and depressed for almost 2 weeks i thoughted he die on me (cost me $55) she jumped out i noticed her free swimming i freaked
she bailed three more time and now is just loose with him for the last three days and NO DAMAGE. hes unclamped and happier. *whos says you cat keep one of each together huh? *

rhetorical question.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

lets see. she could b put in the female community and be killed or free swim happily with a submissive male that spends 95 % of the time ignoring her, the other 5% hes like Hey and a small flare, shes warm in a filtered tank.

to me id say that im meeting her and his needs. they are happy warm and well fed. if he was constantly harrassing her she would NOT be in there i am not stupid. i have 9 females and 14 males and have been keeping them HAPPILY (first time one on one granted) for over 4 years. ive had over 80 bettas in that 4 yrs, ive had pretty much EVERY single sickness you can have and every issue you can have and im still with it.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, you may think you know your fish and for the moment they may seem to be living together peacefully, but splendens are so unpredictable it can take only an instant for things to go wrong. 

I have had females be completely fine with a male in their tank for over a year. Then I came down one day to find him with all his fins torn off and floating around half-dead at the surface. I had only checked on that tank an hour or so before and everything had been fine. I had no idea then what it was that triggered that attack and still have no idea now. 

I worry more about males (particularly the heavier finned and less aggressive males) getting attacked by females than I do about females getting attacked by males. In my experience HM males can't defend themselves all that well if a female does decide to attack him. Their big fins make them slow and vulnerable and it does not take long for them to get shredded.

Then there is your $55 down the drain because if they are badly damaged they never really grow in as nicely as before, and sometimes the stress of having so much damage inflicted in such a short space of time can really knock a fish about. 

Don't really know why you think in this situation the benefits outweigh the risks. To be honest I can't really see any benefits to it at all.


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## hannah16 (Mar 3, 2011)

I do realize everyone just wants to help, but these aren't our fish. You've given Abby all the advice you can, if she wishes to keep her male and female bettas together, then let her.

Perhaps nothing will ever happen? There are those one in a millions situations where they can get along happily.

If something does happen, Abby has learned never to repeat her mistake.

I think we should step back and allow Abby to do what she likes. She has heaters, plants, hiding places and a filter. She isn't being abuse and neglecting them. We may not agree with what she is doing, but we should respect her choice to leave them as is.

Abby; you've been given advice and you've chosen not to take it. That is fine, I respect your decision. I just hope it stays working out for the two of them. I'd like to be kept up to date so please continue to inform me on this thread. I don't particularly agree with your choice, but I respect it.

I hope it works out for you; HAPPY NEW YEARS EVE.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

thank you hannah, I check them many times a day ( feeding and just checking where the next lot of plants should go etc, change things up) and they are in the dining room so im always in there. im not neglecting them or starving them


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

*


LittleBettaFish said:



Then there is your $55 down the drain because if they are badly damaged they never really grow in as nicely as before, and sometimes the stress of having so much damage inflicted in such a short space of time can really knock a fish about.

Click to expand...

*if i remove her n he clamps and refuses to eat and eventually dies the moneys gone anyway. he clamps even if she is in the guppy breeder box.


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## hannah16 (Mar 3, 2011)

Abby said:


> thank you hannah, I check them many times a day ( feeding and just checking where the next lot of plants should go etc, change things up) and they are in the dining room so im always in there. im not neglecting them or starving them


You're welcome. 

Like I said, we may not agree with you, but there is no point in 5 different people repeating the same thing over and over again. 

Want to see what happens? Keep an eye on the thread. That's all we can do.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

No one said you were neglecting or starving them, just that the odds are against you that it is going to work out. Especially in a 20L tank where there is really no room for the losing fish to get away if they do have a fight. 

I will never condone males and females living together having had a fish die because of a similar housing arrangement. I also think that as a forum that in part is aimed at educating first time betta owners, the kind of living situation Abby describes isn't one that should be readily accepted as okay.


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## hannah16 (Mar 3, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> No one said you were neglecting or starving them, just that the odds are against you that it is going to work out. Especially in a 20L tank where there is really no room for the losing fish to get away if they do have a fight.
> 
> I will never condone males and females living together having had a fish die because of a similar housing arrangement. I also think that as a forum that in part is aimed at educating first time betta owners, the kind of living situation Abby describes isn't one that should be readily accepted as okay.


I never said it was okay; I don't agree with it. But there isn't a point in us giving the advice more than what we have when she's made it clear she won't separate them. Not much we can do, these aren't our fish.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I do not want to see what happens... I've seen what happens. During spawning. Where the male's entrails were strewn across the tank, because of the female, who decided to take it a step higher than I had ever expected. 

IF ANYTHING, instead of snapping at us, AT LEAST get a 10 gallon tank. 5 gallons is not enough. Then add a S%@& ton of live, silk and fabric plants so they do not bother each other at all.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

This is an open forum. There are certain topics everyone knows are hot-button issues. Housing male and female bettas together is one of them. By posting this kind of thread on a forum dedicated to betta care, you are going to have to expect a majority of people are going to be opposed to it.

I hope Abby manages to prove us wrong as really the only other alternative is that it all goes to hell in a hand basket and one or both of her fish are injured or even killed. 

I just never understand why these threads are posted if the OP doesn't want to hear anything negative. If so they really need to put a disclaimer in the title of their thread.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

As I did with the "1-2 gallon tanks!" ;-)

Or, have posted in the... "betta fish chat". And perhaps said they were going to try this out and if all else fails remove them.

I just do not want you to wake up to dead fish, Abby. I hope you know that.


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

If someone wants to post about doing this, it's going to invite criticism because people are worried about the highly inevitable outcome. Don't want the criticism? Don't post about it. It's not the fault of the other people giving well-intended advice when someone does something like this and then gets defensive when told they've committed their fish to a time bomb of violent death. It's the simple truth. If you don't want to hear it, why post about what you're doing?


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## Rainbows (Sep 17, 2012)

I have to agree with you Abby dear. I have a male and female that used to live together for awhile until I got another tank for the female. They lived peacefully and never bothered each other. I may say it all depends on the fish and there attitude. Sometimes, the color of both of the fish may cause a attack. That is why both of my Betta's that was put together was both dark colors that can blend into the dark plants. Hope they are both doing well, Abby! 
Stay happy!


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

80 in 4 years o.o wow how long are your fish living because betta's with good care can and should live up to 3-5 years...come even 7.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Why ask for help if your just going to ignore it. Go to Yahoo.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I agree with Choc, if you don't want to learn about your fish's care this isn't the site for you. We are here to help people take proper care of their fish, not agree with you when you do something unsafe for fish. Also 5 gallons is too small for two betta's free roaming together, you need at least 20 gallons well planted.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Atleast add a divider. You are saying they are fine. But your 1st post seems to disagree.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I agree did you ever try to figure out why your male has fin clamped? Also did you know sometimes when males are close to death they will perk up around females as a last ditch hope to spawn and pass on his genetics. You may be encountering this with your male right now which is likely why he perked up. His fin clamping is caused by something else you should have investigated and did you even gt for 2 weeks before adding her because she could spread something to him now if he is already sick. There is a lot on betta care you didn't seem to have considered already with this thread alone :/ maybe why you have had so many betta in such a short amount of time.


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## bettasareawesome (Jul 9, 2012)

you know what we all know to not put a male and male together or a male and female together because they could fight or spawn. But seriously if they've been fine for this long and you're ready if they do spawn. And they're depressed without each other I see no reason not to keep them together as long as you check the tank frequently just in case.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

3 days is not nearly long enough to say they are okay together. you need at least 3 months to judge that. Even then there have been betta's kept together for years then one day they decide to kill each other....soo yeah still risky.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I am expecting OP in Betta Memorials.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I am expecting OP in Betta Memorials.


Since the OP has had some 80 betta in only 4 years I suspect they keep it hush hush when fish die, which seems like it happens a lot.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

That makes sense. I am surprised they buy expensive Bettas.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Most bettas are expensive here in Oz. Not uncommon to pay $50 for a poor quality HM at most of the fish stores I have been to.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Really? The most expensive Bettas here are EEs for 20.00$.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Very risky business. All betta males perk up and show off when they see a female. All you have to do is pull a sorority girl put her in a jar, then place it in front of a boys tank. Boys show off at first, flare, zip around., run away very excited. Also have seen them get along very well at first in the spawn tub..part of courtship. Then the other phase kicks in and you see the chase, nips and jumps, Ive seen a girl leap 8 inches and bounce off the spawn tub lid..ok time to go. Since the OP female is very likely not conditioned at all she will be terrified by it all. It may take a while but the outcome willl probly be a negative result. So why take chances like this with the health of the fish? Over 80 fish in 4 yrs in not so good. Most betta diseases can be prevented with good care in the first place or quickly fixed with proper knowledge and use of medications. Take the good advise given to you by people who have more experience. Do the right thing. Its like drinking and driving... you can get away with it for a while but eventually the odds are against you. Nobody says you cant do this..your fish right. Just saying you shouldn't is all.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Most bettas are expensive here in Oz. Not uncommon to pay $50 for a poor quality HM at most of the fish stores I have been to.


Wow I would only pay that for high quality fish. Highest priced we have here is $30 for kings and $25 for DTHM like my male.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I saw the most Beatiful Plakat today.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I saw the most Beatiful Plakat today.


Too bad you have a two tank rule Choc. I need a rule myself i have 4 tanks now xD and am planning to divide my 20 gallon for 2 more :O


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I might be getting a 3 tank. But I would have to behave and keep my room clean for months. And it will be an Imbellis.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

AWESOME, if you breed keep me posted, I want a pair SO BAD. May save my 20 gallon for that...besides I got a bunch of coupons for $10 off 10+ gallon tanks at petsmart  And also $3 off filters and $1 off on API stuff.


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## hannah16 (Mar 3, 2011)

Why are y'all still posting? I thought you'd see by now she isn't going to separate them. You're wasting your time typing up responses to this thread.

I say let Abby be and if you want to say " I told you so" later, then keep an eye out.

As for the 80 bettas in four years, yes that is a lot, but how do we know she didn't rehome several of them rather than them dying?? We shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

LadyVictorian said:


> AWESOME, if you breed keep me posted, I want a pair SO BAD. May save my 20 gallon for that...besides I got a bunch of coupons for $10 off 10+ gallon tanks at petsmart  And also $3 off filters and $1 off on API stuff.


 From what I understand you have to raise them together for Imbellis. Cannot breed all the space and stuff.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

hannah16 said:


> Why are y'all still posting? I thought you'd see by now she isn't going to separate them. You're wasting your time typing up responses to this thread.
> 
> I say let Abby be and if you want to say " I told you so" later, then keep an eye out.
> 
> As for the 80 bettas in four years, yes that is a lot, but how do we know she didn't rehome several of them rather than them dying?? We shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.


 She seemed to talk alout about dead bettas.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

ChoclateBetta said:


> She seemed to talk alout about dead bettas.


This, she actually does if you look back in her posts.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Why did you start with this?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Wow talk about an overreaction. No one owes you anything and I don't know why on Earth you would come back now to resurrect this thread when everyone else had forgotten about it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm wondering the same thing. Sometimes you just have to let people find out things for themselves and let then deal with the consequences.


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## BearMitten (Jan 17, 2013)

So what happened? this whole thread is like a mystery novel and I dont even know what the end is???!!? I feel like I missed some chapters : (


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Some posts were taken out because of arguing.


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## hannah16 (Mar 3, 2011)

It's better you do not know... but according to Abby the male and female combo tank is doing well so far.. but please do not take it to heart that this is something you yourself should practice..


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