# Mahsfish's journal



## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I had a journal way back. I thought I'd start another one. I will be updating it on a weekly basis as long as there is stuff to talk about. Feel free to join in. 

I just recently set up a 10 gallon with apistogramma paduro. Aka blue sky cichlid. I will post some pictures of them. I have 1 male and 3 females they are all around 1.5"

First pics are of my fish. Last 2 are of what they look like as adults. Males get nice blue and females are yellow with the black spot.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Nice apistos. I have always wanted a pair of Apistogramma baenschi inka 50.

Have you thought about doing a blackwater style tank for them?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Yea I have actually thought of that. I'm trying to get some nice drift wood. Maybe like a stump with the roots kinda thing. I'm not sure on the plants and stuff though. 

I would really appreciate any suggestions and help on this. 

I actually had no clue what I was going to get for this tank. This specific LFS is my favorite. They have great prices and a 2 for 1 every second Saturday in the month. Which was yesterday. 

The store is about 30-40 mins from me so I don't visit it often and it always gets new shipments. The only think I dislike is their dead fish policy is only 3 days with a water sample. Water sample isn't a huge deal but I feel like 3 days is a bit short. Especially since they sell very expensive fish aswell. Lots of high quality discus and arrows aswell as plecos. 

I'm also iffy on the whole planted tank thing. I've never done it before. And last time I had plants I got overrun with snails in my duckweed. But if you could help me out I'll defs try.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

What I have seen in most apisto tanks is sand as the substrate, maybe with a couple of handfuls of peat moss over the top (I do this but over aqua soil in my wild betta tanks). There are usually a few IALs, and then most apisto keepers only seem to use floating plants such as Amazon Frogbit. I suppose duckweed or dwarf water lettuce would work as well.

I've also seen a really nice set-up that used pennywort and Amazon swords. It looked like a flooded forest. 

I suppose crypts would work as well and you could use something like hornwort or watersprite as a floater. 

Honestly, all my wild betta tanks are planted and I don't do anything more than turn the light on during the day and prune back the watersprite when it gets out of control. I have the odd snail and I do get algae, but that's the whole idea of my tanks. I don't want sterile looking 'nature' aquariums. I want something that actually resembles a slice of the real nature. 

Plants like swords, crypts, pennywort, and watersprite are very easy to grow and maintain. Put some root tabs in the sand under your crypts and swords and they will love it. Pennywort and watersprite basically just grows itself.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay thanks. I will have to find me some sand. Or I've got some small fine gravel. I just need to use some sorts strainer as it for mixed in with larger gravel.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Some more pictures. They are starting to settle in better. Fed frozen blood worms last night and they started eating right away. 

What else can I feed them. The food I have is frozen blood worms, frozen daphnia, hikari cichlid staple pellets, flake food, shrimp pellets and algae wafers.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Selling my 50 gal and my 5 gal. Plus all my bettas on Friday to someone. That'll leave me with a 10 gal and a 20 gal. And the 4 A.panduro plus a lone hybrid peacock fry that I'm growing out to see what he looks like. Plus some money that I can spend on transforming the 20 gal into a nice blackwater biotype setup and but a few bn plecos, driftwood and tetras possibly


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## DaytonBetta (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm glad to see your journal, I see you often on Matt's! I look forward to following your fish-keeping adventures!


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks Dayton. 

And also for you that don't know much about me. I've been keeping fish for around 10 years. Breed for around 5. I've kept many types of fish. II "specialize" in american cichlids and hybrid cichlids. 

The fish I've kept includes zebra danios, goldfish, bn plecos, clown plecos, kribensis, jack dempseys, convicts, flowerhorns, blood parrots and king Kong parrots, apistogramma panduro and cacatuoides, peacocks cichlids, zebra cichlids, bettas, guppies, endlers and a couple more. 

Also, for all of you non-cichlid keepers. Here's a picture of what a large pair (7 inch) of cichlids can do to your tank.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I was gonna post earlier... I've just been super busy.

Everything looks great. I would definitely take the leap and go planted- you'll love it. It's really just about balancing the system, low to medium light plus some easy plants (any of the floaters, hornwort, aponogetons, mosses, rotala, shinnersia, watersprite, wisteria... People will say java fern too but they've never worked for me) and a nice comprehensive liquid fert (I love seachem flourish) with sand or fine gravel substrate and it'll be great. Fish love it too. 

I've actually been looking at those apistos, Spencer Jack is expecting them to arrive and the people on the local forum are putting together a group order. They'd be my first cichlids... To be honest I'm a little hesitant. I love how the females look though.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Really nice looking fish. I kept cichlids before I got into bettas. My favourites (besides my oscars) were a school of eight blood parrots we raised from juvies to adults. It was really interesting to watch their group interactions. We had one dominant pair that claimed a cluster of stones we placed in the tank and they spawned a couple of times. None of the eggs fertilized, but it didn't stop them from dilligently defending and tending their nest every single day.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Matt I would definetly go for apistos if I were you. I love cichlids and I'd have to say dwarf species are by far my favorite. I mean I've kept the huge 10" flowerhorns and jack dempseys, and yeah they are bug and amazingly colored, but they are so aggressive and you need large tanks. 

The dwarfs like apistos are small, relatively peaceful, and colorful. Plus they don't up root all your plants opposed to the large american cichlids.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

About the planted tank thing. I'm going to wait on that until I find asome really nice drift wood for it. And I'm picking up 20 pcs of 8" IAL Thursday for these guys aswell. What do you think k is a good price for 20 8" IAL leaves. The person said $15, but I'm not sure how the pricing goes on these.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

They look like they are colouring up nicely. 

You got me looking at apistogramma again with your journal and I realised the local aquarium has the species I want in stock. Should have got a pair rather than my splendens male. Would have matched my wilds better :mrgreen:

I'm not sure on the pricing of IAL. I go through Bettawan who is overseas, but who provides cheaper leaves than what I can get here. Prices seem to be very steep in Oz for anything aquarium related.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I'll be getting 40 8" IAL for $25. Does this sound good to you guys?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Thats not a bad deal, as long as you aren't paying shipping.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

No they are in Calgary.


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

Subscribing as this sounds like a very interesting journal!


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

So I went into school today to go over some old exams to study for finals. And I remembered that I had a gift card for petland after trading in my male jack dempsey. So I went by and they have this thing now called "fish of the month" and they are great deals. They had a bunch of African cichlid fry for $2.97 each which is not bad as most breeders here sell them for $2-5 each. 

But they had spotted bristlenose plecos for $2.97 each at 1-1.5". That's a great deal here. B and I sells them for $8 @ that size, petland normally has them at $6-10 each and other breeders sell them for $5 each. So I picked up 3 with my gift card. I'm eventually going to put them with my apistos when I make my biotype. But for now they are going in the 20 gal that has 1 2.5" peacock cichlid hybrid. Hopefully he doesn't pick on them. Or I'll have to put a divider in. But I assume aslong as they are hanging out on the drift wood he won't bother them.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Some pics. Also, for my biotype. I'm trying to decide between black sand. Or white/beige sand. What do you guys think?

I will eventually be adding more stuff to my tanks once I figure out what it is I want to do with them.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I might be getting some flame moss for my drift wood. Does anyone have experience with this plant? Is it good?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Dint know and flame moss, but I have java moss and one other one and both are awesome, low light, easy plants. Fry love mosses.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey Matt since you have live plants and sand can I ask you some questions. I want to do the biotype with some plants. And I was thinking getting the seachem flourite black sand. But I know you have to stir it to release air pockets. Is this correct? 

My tank would only have a few plants like swords and mosses as I'd like to keep the tank more simple. With driftwood and then some coconut and flowerpot caves. I was wondering if there are any fish that will allow me not to have to stir it. Like Corys, but I don't know a ton about them. I also know the cichlids like to dig in the sand a bit. 

Im just not sure if I want to have to go through the Hassel of moving rocks and wood around to stir up the sand all the time. If I do I might just do fine black gravel instead.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You're supposed to stir sand but to be completely honest I rarely do and so far I'm fine. When it gets siphoned it gets stirred. Malaysian trumpet snails can also be used, they like to burrow. 

The other alternative is poking it a lot with a chopstick or something like that to release the bubbles.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay thanks Matt.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My sand went black in one of my wild betta tanks and it smelt foul if disturbed, but those fish and their fry were truly thriving. None of my fish ever died from the sand substrate turning anaerobic. 

But you can use MTS to sift through the sand for you. However, they can also can reach plague proportions so possibly just poking it with something every so often would be fine. 

Most apistogramma owners seem to use only a thin layer of sand anyway unless they want to plant something like Amazon swords, which require enough substrate to develop an expansive root system.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay. I think I'll go with black seachem flourite sand. And just do a thin layer. Then add some cave and driftwood with mosses. 

Also when switching substrates do I have to worry about cycling the tank? Because I know the bacteria is held in the gravel and decor surfaces. Or would the bacteria in the filter be enough to keep th nitrogen cycle going?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I would not worry too much. Normally the majority of beneficial bacteria is in the filter. 

You may see a mini-cycle and so have to keep eyes on parameters for a little while afterwards, but I doubt you would crash your whole cycle by replacing the substrate.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay. I don't actually have a test kit... I know I should. But aslong as I'm doing 25-50% WC a week I should have to worry about my params getting bad right?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Also LBF. I checked out your site and noticed you have some blackwater tanks. Did you just let the tannis from the drift wood leach out in the tank? 

I would like to know how I would go able achieving this. And how much it lowers the pH. And how to go about water changes.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

It all depends on the quality of your source water, the bioload of your tank, and whether your beneficial bacteria are actually coping with that bioload. So I can't really give a definite yes or no answer. 

I'd probably try and pick up an ammonia test kit if you can, otherwise watch your fish closely and how they react. Some fish can tolerate poor water quality, but if they start swimming jerkily, spend time breathing heavily at the surface, scratch themselves against the substrate/tank decorations, clamp their fins or even just become more skittish, this can suggest there are issues there. 

If the ammonia is high enough, you may even see red streaks/blotches on the fins and around the gill area.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Yea. Im planning on picking one up soon. Once I have money.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Oh just saw your other post. My water is kept dark by rooibos, peat moss and IAL/other leaf litter. Only two of my tanks have wood and they don't really leech all that much.

My water from the tap is essentially perfect for soft water species. It has no carbonate hardness to speak of, and so the pH plummets if it is left to sit. 

If your water is harder with a higher KH, you may not see much of an actual shift in pH. Wood/peat moss/IAL etc. can only do so much to acidify the water. It's why people that live in areas with hard water who keep soft water fish often have to use RO water in their tanks. 

If your apistogramma are captive bred, they will most likely be less sensitive than wild-caught specimens can be.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the are captive bred. The LFS got them in a shipment. A ton of them. Like 3 tanks full of 30 in each tank all around the same size. 

Also will I have to make the water when I water change the same pH as the water in the tank? Would I do so by have pre frozen pieces of the tannins from IAL?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well I actually have a separate tub and a bucket I age my water in to get around this problem. I put in a heater, sponge filter, and then stain the water with rooibos tea (sometimes IAL but I find this makes a mess). 

This gives me water temperature, water parameters and water colour that is very close to that of the tank. This is important for me because I have fry that vary in age from newly hatched to 5-6 months old in the same tank and I don't want to cause fluctuations. 

Otherwise in the past I did just use to use straight tap water without any issues. But I never did massive changes. Only usually 25% at one time. 

You've got me wanting a few species of apistogramma now. I love how the mums tend to their fry. Too bad I have no money or space haha.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay great thanks. I don't have any fry currently. So I think I'll just use tap water. And throw in a IAL every couple weeks. 

Also will my plecos eat the IAL as it starts disinegrating? Or will I have to remove it?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm not sure as plecos are not my forte. I usually don't remove my IAL. I just let them break down in the tank as I find they create a lot of infusoria in the process which my fish like to pick at.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay. Sounds like a plan haha. Once I sell the tanks I'm going to start getting gravel and my IAL. Plus some more caves. Then I can transfer my apistos into that tank with the plecos. Hopefully they get along. I will also be able to hopefully get some endlers off Matt for my 10 gal.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Good luck with your plans. Your apistogramma are really nice looking and hopefully they appreciate what you have in store for them. Panduro is definitely one of the species I would like to keep.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey Mah, if you don't mind me asking, how much did Riverfront have the apistos on for?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Hey matt. They had the panduro that I got. And nijsseni. They were both $18 each. But on Saturday it was 2 for 1. So I got all 4 for $36


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Hmm, I'll have to think about whether or not I want them. I could definitely see myself ending up with a pair... Thank you.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

If you get them I'd say get the panduro. Nijsseni look a bit like panduro but IMO panduro get more colors then them. But its ultimately up to you. 

Also today I noticed two females are really yellowed up. And flare at each other every now any then. No chasing or anything serious though. And the other female has coloured up more since getting her. But not as nice as the other two. I think the other two are larger so they are the dominant females and are trying to get the males attention. But he doesn't seem to care at the moment. The largest female flares up and chases the little one away. But it isn't getting beat up or anything as I've got some plants and caves. Then the other female patrols he one little cave. The male just swims back and forth in front of the tank. 

I think I might get the seachem flourite black sand today and rinse it. Then put it in my tank. And put the plecos in aswell. Hopefully my plecos are fine and there's no issue is ruining the cycle. Then after a week if the plecos are fine. Then I'm going to add in the smaller female. And then wait till the male and other female pair up. And put the other female into the 20. Or I may just put them all into the 20. But I think I like the first plan better. That way I do t have to move the fry around to avoid them getting eaten. And once I have fry I will put the pair back into the 20 with the others.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Do you guys think I should go with tan or black sand? 

I know black will make the colours on the fish pop better. But I know tan looks more natural.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Personally I prefer tan, and most apistogramma seem to have good colouration even over lighter coloured sand. I think if you provide cover, don't use extremely strong lighting, and keep the water dark with tannins, the colour of the substrate matters less.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Okay. It's really tough because I loom at black tanks and the plant and fish pop so nicely. And then tan tanks look so natural and calm. I have a black background too. So I think black gravel might be too much black.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Well it looks like the blood parrots are back at it and spawning again. Currently just starting going through the actions. Some dry runs and then eggs should start coming. Probably won't be done for an hours or so. Gonna leave my room. To let them do their thing. 

I'm almost sure my male is sterile though. Its a good thing since these guys lay 1000s of eggs. Here's a pic from last time with my male guarding the eggs which all turned white and got overcome by fungi eventually.


The amount of fry is they all got fertilized would be overwhelming. I suppose CJ would know what I'm talking about as he used to breed and keep Oscars.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Some good news and some bad news 

Bad news is I'm fighting ich in my 20 gal. But it looms like it's going away. 

Good news is I'm getting fish from Matt. Well... CJ is holing them for me while I get rid of the ich. But I'm excited. I'm getting scarlet enders and some plants from him. Also the apistos are showing more colors and the male is paying some interested in the females. I saw him body wagging for a female last night. 

Some semi good semi bad news though is that the parrots did lay eggs. And now I can stick my hands in the tank to do anything or else I'll surely get bitten. Even if I stick the algae scrubber in they both fight it ferociously.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Converted to sand in the 20 gal. Petcetera had a closing sale. 90% off the store. I got the sand at pet smart for $20 then I got the rock plants and decor for a whooping total of $5.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Still working on the cloudiness. Once its cleared up I'll pick up the fish from CJ. Should be 2-3 days.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I was thinking...
As the male panduro is getting more aggressive. I was thinking if maybe moving the apistos over to this tank. I'm just not sure how they will do with the plecos. Hopefully they'd leave them alone. 

Do you think this would make a good tank for the 4 apistos? I will be adding some live plants after I get them from CJ. Or does it need some small flowerpots to make more territories?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Not much action on my journal lately. 

But as and update now, I decorated the 20 gal a little more and added the plants I got from Matt. The tanks current stock is 3 young 2" bn plecos which I hope to get a pair out of as they grow. And 1 male and 4 female apistogramma panduros. 

Then my 10 gal is currently holding the scarlet endlers off matt. Some pics are attached. 


Also, I'm sad to say that all my bettas will be gone by tomorrow. I'm dropping them off at someone's house tomorrow. They are taking all my stunted juvies (shame on me) and my male halfmoon with my 5 gal. 

My family is planning on moving around Christmas time. I'm planning on maybe doing a betta spawn then. But who knows. I'm going into my final year of highschool and I'll probably be busy and not have much time to deal with a betta spawn a few months before I possibly head out of town for post secondary. 

Any who... Here are update picks.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Your tanks look really nice. Yeah breeding Oscars was so much different than betta. 

Glad you got a home for the betta. Your fish attacking your algae scrubber reminds me of a big HMPK giant I sold that freaked on it and bit me multiple times. Panduro looks like it has an attitude.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

That tank looks really good. Let those plants grow in (plus a couple more, like a sword), and it'll be great. The fish will love it. 

Wait a month or so until your female endlers are breeding size, and have fun! Not quite sure how much cover is in that tank but they generally aren't cannibalistic. Just have some tiny food ready for them, it doesn't even have to be live... Just small. 

Those apisto pics make me want a pair.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

I had kinda thrown a bunch of stuff in the apisto tank and didn't have much left for the endlers. I Know my previous endlers rarely ate fry unless I left them with no food. So shouldn't be too much of a problem. 

I already talked to pet land and they said once the colony gets larger they will give me credit to supply the store with them every now and then. 

I'm still debating whether or not to give them females. As other overseas supplier don't in order to keep demand high and protect their stock.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

*Update*

Good news and bad news. 

The apistos seem to be pairing. The male is colorful and one female is really vibrant. And they seem to get along the best. Flaring and showing of for each other and chase off the other fish together. 

Bad news is the person buying the bettas may have just flaked on me. 

And second, the other apistos look stressed and one hide behind the filter. I posted an add on kijiji today selling them so they can get in a new tank and not be so stressed and hiding now.


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