# Help! Diagnosis Needed



## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Hi, this is my little guy Squish. I’ve had him since October 2019 with little to no health problems along the way. He is in a heated &filtered 5-gallon tank with places to hide and silk plants throughout. About 3 days ago I noticed he may have been starting to show signs of swim bladder disease and/or dropsy. I started treating the water with bettafix (today will be day 3 of treatment) and I fasted him the past 2 days (I did give him a pea yesterday and he ate a little more than half). I have inserted pictures below, as you can see his belly appears bloated on both sides and his scales may be starting to pinecone, although I can’t tell if they’re just sticking out slightly because of the bloat. I know my guy is getting old, but I can’t bear the thought of losing him so I thought I’d reach out for help. Thanks in advance.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

I’ve also noticed some slight discoloration on his gills and near his fin. See photo attached.


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## burtlesnurf (Mar 20, 2021)

Can you please fill this form out so we can better help you









*****PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Fill out this form so...


Many thanks to BF/TFK Member Mike for developing this questionnaire. It is the same form with a few additions. Please copy and paste into a new message and complete this form when seeking help for your Betta. This information and a clear photo posted directly into the thread will help us give...




www.bettafish.com


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 79 F
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? API Betta Food
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No?
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Once a day, 5-6 pellets

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Weekly
What percentage of water did you change? 50%
What is the source of your water? Tap with dechlorinator 
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out water
What additives do you use other than conditioner? N/A
What brand of conditioner? Aqueon Betta Bowl Plus

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Sunday night (5/30) into Monday morning (5/31)
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Bloated stomach, slightly curved spine, discoloration around gills and front fins
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Seems more tired and less active, spends more time resting 
Is your Betta still eating? Yes. Ate 1/2 of a pea on Tuesday (6/01) and was interested in food today (only gave 1 pellet)
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Yes, I started bettafix on Monday and have done so daily. Yet to give today’s treatment.
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? Since October 2019
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? I don’t think so.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

burtlesnurf said:


> Can you please fill this form out so we can better help you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Done


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

That’s not actually his stomach so I do t think he’s bloated. Are his eyes bulging too?


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

BettaloverSara said:


> That’s not actually his stomach so I do t think he’s bloated. Are his eyes bulging too?


maybe a little bit? I feel like his eyes always have always stuck out so I’m not sure if there’s a significant change or not.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Here is an updated picture of my guy this morning. The white spot behind his gills seems to be getting larger, but his bloat may be going down just the tiniest bit?


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## Chance Yeetz (Jun 7, 2021)

How's your fish doing today? The symptoms look to be onset dropsy or swim bladder disease and I would recommend an epsom salt bath to relieve pressure. To give your fish an Epsom salt bath, pour half of the tank's water into a clean container. Add 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt for every 1 gallon of water. Have the fish swim in the solution for 15 to 30 minutes. Remove the fish promptly and return him to his aquarium if he appears stressed or relieves himself. You can do this bath multiple times the first week. Every other day until symptoms improve and then once a week. It will also help with many parasites. I hope he, and you, are well.


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## Gazzapig (Jun 7, 2021)

Seems to be dropsy........ give him and epsom salt bath but sometimes when the fish starts pineconing its too far gone but you can always try..... also those white spots could be ich so also try methylene blue or acriflavine solution with the salt


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

okay everyone.. I am still out of town but was able to facetime my mom to see my little guy. He’s not looking too good. The white has spread to his stomach, face, and gills, and his fins seem to be extremely frail and torn. He completed his first 3 dose treatment of Kanaplex at the end of last week, and that obviously didn’t do much good. I am having her start Bettafix tomorrow. I’m really sad knowing I can’t be there for him right now. My mom says he’s still been eating, though, which is good. I’m just worried there’s not much hope left for my baby.


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## Chance Yeetz (Jun 7, 2021)

That may be a fungal infection. I would recommend an epsom salt bath immediately as I put in my reply above. Then take out 80% of the water and replace it with fresh water. Treat the tank water with dechlorination treatment as you normally would and add a tablespoon of Epsom Salt directly to the tank for every 5 gallons of water. In 2 days, replace 80% of the water again, treat the water and give him another bath. Good luck!


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## aidan_1549 (Nov 28, 2020)

Chance Yeetz said:


> That may be a fungal infection. I would recommend an epsom salt bath immediately as I put in my reply above. Then take out 80% of the water and replace it with fresh water. Treat the tank water with dechlorination treatment as you normally would and add a tablespoon of Epsom Salt directly to the tank for every 5 gallons of water. In 2 days, replace 80% of the water again, treat the water and give him another bath. Good luck!


I think it looks like columinaris but ask @KekeTheBettaDoc ; 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chance Yeetz (Jun 7, 2021)

aidan_1549 said:


> I think it looks like columinaris but ask @KekeTheBettaDoc ;
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It does look like Columinarus but Kanaplex should have helped the symptoms. If he is with other fish, he needs to be quarantined in a hospital tank and treated. If in his own tank changing the water at 80% w/new filter, -temporarily- adding the salt directly to the water and giving the fish a salt bath treatment should help the symptoms drastically. 2 days after adding the epsom salt to the tank, another 80% change should be done. The biggest concerns would be making sure the water temperature is consistently within 10 degrees between tank water changes and salt baths. The fish is already under stress and severe fluctuations in temperature could make him fatality ill.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Chance Yeetz said:


> That may be a fungal infection. I would recommend an epsom salt bath immediately as I put in my reply above. Then take out 80% of the water and replace it with fresh water. Treat the tank water with dechlorination treatment as you normally would and add a tablespoon of Epsom Salt directly to the tank for every 5 gallons of water. In 2 days, replace 80% of the water again, treat the water and give him another bath. Good luck!


She started bettafix last night and also added 1 T. of aquarium salt to his 5 gal. tank yesterday. Hopefully we start seeing some improvement soon. So should she remove 80% of the water tomorrow and then add another tablespoon? Or would it be okay to wait to remove the water until I get home on Friday? I am hoping to do a salt bath myself then. My mom does not feel comfortable doing one on her own due to the chance of shock.


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## Chance Yeetz (Jun 7, 2021)

squishthefish said:


> She started bettafix last night and also added 1 T. of aquarium salt to his 5 gal. tank yesterday. Hopefully we start seeing some improvement soon. So should she remove 80% of the water tomorrow and then add another tablespoon? Or would it be okay to wait to remove the water until I get home on Friday? I am hoping to do a salt bath myself then. My mom does not feel comfortable doing one on her own due to the chance of shock.


 Yes, remove 80% of the water and treat the new water with anti-chlorination treatment then add 1 tablespoon of salt directly to the fresh tank water. Normally, I would recommend a higher solution but because you're also medicating the fish we don't want to overdo it. Please ask her to try and be mindful of the temperature of the new water and try to keep it within 10° as severe fluctuations can cause shock. Changing the water at 80% is recommended daily, but because it's a lot to ask of your mother and the fish is under a lot of stress at it is, I'd recommend doing another water change in 2 days with another tablespoon of salt. Salt cannot be filtered out and is left behind by evaporation so the only way salt can eventually be removed from the tank is by water changes. So, we do not want to add too much.

When you return home, I would recommend a salt bath for Squish. After that second water change and salt treatment, he should be improving. If not, please let me know and we can talk about more aggressive treatment. I hope this helps. If any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. 👍


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

What you are seeing is a natural color change; it is not Columnaris nor is it fungal (unless cottony/fuzzy).

Ask your Mom to stop treatment and stop the salt. Do two 50% water changes at least a few hours apart to get rid of the salt.

If you have Indian Almond Leaves or plain Rooibos Tea and either add a teabag or a leaf to his tank or brew a strong "tea" and condition before adding to his tank. The tank should be the color below: Both of these products have antifungal and antibacterial properties. If you don't have either, Rooibos can be bought at most grocery stores.

A one-gallon water change 2 x per week until you get home would have the water at its cleanest. But a once-weekly 50% will also work. Whichever you think she'd be more comfortable with and have the time to do.

BTW: Here are the symptoms of Columnaris. Source Columnaris Betta: ID, Treat, and Prevent

White spots on the mouth, edges of scales, and fins
Cottony growth that eats away at the mouth
Fins disintegration, beginning at the edges
‘Saddleback’ lesion near the dorsal fin
Rapid gilling in cases of gill infection










As BettaloverSara noted, he is not bloated nor does he have the symptoms of SBD.

Doing the above should help him out. If she can, perhaps your Mom can take a photo every other day or so and send so you can chronicle his progress?

*Added:* Squish is terribly thin which may be the root of his issues. Feed him what he is currently eating only up to 2-3 x per day with 3 being best. When you return, get him more nutritious food. NorthFin Betta Bits, Fluval Bug Bites, New Life Spectrum, Aqueon Color or Betta Formulas-only and Omega One are good. I feed my ailing fish frozen to give them an extra bit of oomph.

BTW, when you add salt _always_ dissolve; never add directly to the aquarium. If you don't dissolve the salt can irritate the mucus coat and cause its own set of issues. You only replace what you remove; no more. With a 50% water change you would use a half a tablespoon. There's really no need for more than a 50% water change unless med instructions indicate.


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## Chance Yeetz (Jun 7, 2021)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> What you are seeing is a natural color change; it is not Columnaris nor is it fungal (unless cottony/fuzzy).
> 
> Ask your Mom to stop treatment and stop the salt. Do two 50% water changes at least a few hours apart to get rid of the salt.
> 
> ...


Even this site recommends 80% water changes. Salt directly is supposed to interfere with mucus as if it is fungal, would help. I'm not just a "betta fan". I actually have professional experience. I don't agree with what you're saying but ultimately it's whatever is best for the fish. ✌ Peacing out of this conversation. Good luck, OP.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Well, I’m home and Squish made it through the 2 weeks I was gone. He’s not looking too good, in fact, he looks worse than a couple days ago. I’m planning on doing an 80% water change and giving him a salt bath tomorrow. Hope that helps.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Squish is going through a color change. This is perfectly normal in Betta with a marble gene. There is nothing wrong other than he is slowly starving to death. From above healthy fish look like the one below.







Compare that to Squish.







Sorry to be blunt but all the water changes and salt are _not_ going to fix him. If you don't do something about his nutritional issues he is going to die.

Best of luck to you and Squish.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

I’m sorry I’m so late to respond, I’m on holiday at the moment so I’m not on here very much right now.

I 100% agree with @RussellTheShihTzu that he needs better quality and quantity of food. He is very thin. I also agree that he’s changing colour.

That being said, I’m not sure if anyone has addressed the lump. Or it’s possible I’ve missed it if they did. I think he has a cyst or tumour. Unfortunately, there isn’t much that can be done for either. I would do as Russel suggested, in his weakened state, drastic water changes and salt are going to be too hard on him.


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## Seqathe (Apr 17, 2021)

I agree with the above too. My rescue boy looked really thin when I got him and all he needed was some clean water (no additives other than Prime) and nutritious food. I'd start there. Without a good diet, it is really hard for them to fight off any potential illness (both now and later.)


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## Sab (Feb 28, 2021)

My first thought looking at him was is he going through a colour change too. It is hard to tell on photos though. 
If you can get live food that will him immensely with his body condition and general health - live black worms are great, high in protein and v nutritious without the risk of transferring disease like some other live food.


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## Momofbetta (May 16, 2020)

Just another popping in to support Linda's advice (she is Russelltheshitzu  )

This isn't a fungal infection. Squish is very thin - I have had to fatten up a few bettas over the years and live food is best but a variety of good quality pellets/crumbles will work just as well. I use NorthFin Betta as my main food and also Fluval Bug Bites (either the small/med or med/large will work, I'm not a huge fan of the betta formula). I would feed him 4-5 pellets three times a day to start.

Don't feed him peas. Bettas cannot digest plant matter - it's kinda like giving a glass of milk to someone who is lactose intolerant. Sure it will clean him out but not very nicely. Best for constipation is frozen daphnia (just for future).

As for the lump - this looks like a tumor to me. Not anything treatable. I have one with a huge lipoma right now. Doesn't slow her down at all!

I also notice that you dip out water for changes. Have you ever used a vacuum or cleaned the gravel? It gets very gross and should really be vacuumed weekly.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Thank you all for your help and advice. I have started feeding 4 pellets twice a day now. I am hoping to see some weight improvement soon. I have seen him struggle a tad to stay at the bottom of the tank and/or straight in the water, but he is still moving well and able to swim to the top and/or bottom as he wants. He looks like he could float up to the top if he doesn’t use his flippers, though. I know people have said it’s not SB, but isn’t that a major sign of it? I may just be paranoid at this point..


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Unfortunately, there are many similar symptoms for the same ailments; it's whether _a_ll of the symptoms are present. That's why I listed the multitude of symptoms to consider before diagnosing Columnaris.

Up his food to four pellets 4-5 x per day at least three hours apart. If you can get frozen Bloodworms those are pretty fatty and will help add weight. You could feed him those 3 x per day and pellets once or twice. I prefer cubes because I don't count; I just swish the cube around in the water. Mine hunt for a long time for the ones on the substrate. Frozen will keep in the refrigerator for five days. I use a small medicine bottle to store.

Do not get freeze dried as those, according to the manufacturers, are only for treats.

As for his buoyancy issue, I found this written by a aquatic vet on PetPlace:

"Buoyancy problems are caused by a wide variety of disorders. Some of these include systemic disease (bacterial, viral, fungal, parasitic, cancer), starvation, general weakness, eroded fins and broken fins, swim bladder diseases, and excessive air in the gastrointestinal tract or abdominal cavity."


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## Momofbetta (May 16, 2020)

4-5 twice a day is still pretty minimal in terms of feeding. Mine are healthy weights and often eat more than that now. Your guy is emaciated - he needs double what you are currently feeding (as Linda mentioned).


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Momofbetta said:


> 4-5 twice a day is still pretty minimal in terms of feeding. Mine are healthy weights and often eat more than that now. Your guy is emaciated - he needs double what you are currently feeding (as Linda mentioned).


What would you consider I up it to? 6 pellets twice a day? More? Less? He’s always had 5 in the past and was fine until these problems started almost a month ago..


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

It is better to feed him_ at least _three meals of five pellets than increase the number of pellets. As long as the meals are 3-4 hours apart you could feed him 4-5. I'd suggest weekly shots from above to help map his progress. Sometimes the weight gain is slow; sometimes fairly rapid.

Part of his issue may be that API is not the most nutritionally sound food out there. I can't find the Crude Protein percentage but I did manage to find the ingredients. Here are the ones that count. With good fish food the first five ingredients contain four protein sources. Whole wheat is necessary as a binder and always in the first five. 

Whole Wheat, _Whole Menhaden Fish Meal, Squid Mea_l, Wheat Flour,_ Shrimp Meal_

If you buy a more nutritious food like Fluval Bug Bites, NorthFin Betta Bits, New Life Spectrum, Aqueon Betta or Betta Color Formula (not "Pro") or Omega One he might recover faster.

The addition of frozen (one cube every five days) is highly recommended. I like to use Bloodworms or Mini Bloodworms.


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## Seqathe (Apr 17, 2021)

Momofbetta said:


> 4-5 twice a day is still pretty minimal in terms of feeding. Mine are healthy weights and often eat more than that now.


I do too; and especially in the beginning when my little guy was too thin, I fed even more frequent.


RussellTheShihTzu said:


> The addition of frozen (one cube every five days)


I think I have seen you mention before you give them a cube when they get frozen. Is that per fish/tank? I am always so afraid of giving too much frozen in one setting, so I usually just fish out 2-3 worms/shrimp or equalivent of other frozen food. I feel I waste so much food because of it (even if I try to cut the cubes in halves prior to thawing.) so it would be nice to use more of it, but I don't want to bloat in one single meal either, if that makes sense.


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## squishthefish (Jun 2, 2021)

Hello everyone, I just wanted to inform you all that unfortunately Squish passed away on July 25. I was out of town when my mom called me, devastated. Apparently he had stopped eating a few days prior and became very lethargic and would just sit and the bottom of his tank. She tried her best to help him the best she could, but it was his time to go. I am still pretty upset about it, and feeling guilty I was not at home to say goodbye to him, although I did spend a few minutes with him before I left. Thank you to everyone who gave advice to me through this journey, and until next next time, I’m out <3


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