# Form Breeding



## KadenJames

Heeeeey all. :-D Took the time to create a how-to diagram on breeding the illusive double-tail-crown-tail betta. Personally I think they look pretty cool, but it's a mighty long journey there. See below, as I explain step by step.











Alright, let's begin.

*Step One:*

Alright, so you've decided you want to take a leap and try to start a line of DTCTs. One thing to keep in mind is that there are different kinds of double tails- halfmoon double tails, delta tail double tails, plakat double tails, etc. In this example, we are assuming the female is a halfmoon doubletail, who is a DT genotype as well as phenotype (meaning, she is both physically and genetically a doubletail, or Doubletail *Homozygous.*) You also manage to get a crowntail father, as pictured above. When you breed the two, as seen in the punnett square example, you will get 100% single tail bettas, since the double tail gene is _*recessive.*_ 

Now, the crowntail gene in bettas is what we call *intermediar,* meaning it will show its unique characteristics in offspring most of the time. (Double tail is also intermediar, it ususally gives the offspring broad dorsals, thicker bodies and at times longer anal fins.) In this case, the offspring of this spawn will most likely be 100% Combtail bettas, or single tail bettas that have ray extension. 

These offspring carry the Doubletail genotype from mom, so they are Crowntail-Doubletail Heterozygous. 

Still with me? :lol:

This brings us to *Step Two:*










Now that you have a batch full of adult combtails several months later, some with more ray extension than others, you are ready to begin the next step. 

You take the best-looking male from the offspring bunch, and you breed him back to his mother, the doubletail. Since he has doubletail in his genes from mom, according to the punnett square the offspring will be 50% combtail, and 50% CTDT. (However, experiments have shown that generally less than 25% of the actual spawn will be CTDT because they are two intermediar traits- in this case, Mr. Punnett isn't all too accurate.) 


Doubletail Crowntails are not only a mouthfull, but they are somewhat rare and striking in appearance. Hopefully I have inspired you to start your own line, and equipped you with the proper knowledge to tackle it. 

;-)


----------



## KadenJames

^ +2

Doubletails are intermediar as well- instead of getting offspring with extended rays, you'd get fish with broad dorsal and anal fins, which is why a lot of breeders use them to improve the finnage in their lines. Breeding pure cellophane DTs is the best way to go if you want your color to remain the same, and your finnage altered.


----------



## indjo

*Obstacles of Form Breeding
*
Breeding for fin form does not only involve genetics but also water chemistry, general care, and food.
· Ideal water parameter and chemistry will maintain their fins, specially CT’s who need softer water and close to neutral pH compared to other types. Unsuitable water chemistry may cause inability of fins to spread and even clamp or fold them. 
· The HM spread (HM, HMCT, HMPK), is often influenced by regular flaring. This will expand the webbing to its maximum width. No or little exercise will often result in the inability to spread 180*. Many breeders jar their fry since the age of 2 months old and exercise them regularly.
· Constant wormy foods can ruin rays of long finned bettas or they can make all fin types smaller than usual (there are contrasting experiences/beliefs on food – but most agree that daphnia and mosquito larva are best to maintain adult’s fins). Fry grown on wormy foods may grow faster but often has smaller fins. 

*The desired genes*
The desired genetics are often the ones that don’t make it, making goals harder to achieve. Let’s say that 1000 fry is 100% of the genes passed on, but only 100 fry survive to adult – only 10% of the total genetics. So you may not get the genetics you wanted in the first generation and may need more generations to achieve your goals. Inevitably this also means massive culling or selling.

When crossing different traits – sometimes the desired genes for further breeding aren’t visible. The following spawn then becomes more of a gamble and may delay reaching goals. Learning how to select fry for further breeding can only be gained by experience which may take time and numerous breeding.

*The Halfmoon trait is recessive*. 
Halfmoon x non Halfmoon = little to no HM. 
· Halfmoon x Halfmoon spawns *often does not* produce 100% halfmoon. 
· A pair of HM from a bad line will only produce a few HM.
· A good pair of HM from a good line may produce 60% halfmoon or more. 
· A Super delta from a good line can produce some good HM 
This applies to all fin types (HM, HMPK, HMCT, HMDT)

As Joep van Esch put’s it;
“...... the halfmoon trait is not simple the combination of one or two genes but is “multifactorial”. This means that “multi-genes” are involved . For instance:
- Genes that make the rays straight.
- Genes that control the ray-splitting (into 4-, 8-, 16-ray or even more).
- Genes that make caudal spread to 180 degree (or more).
- Genes that give the finnage a fuller appearance (for instance the dt-gene).
- and more....

If one or two of these important genes is not present in the offspring, they probably will not possess the halfmoon finnage but are only delta or superdelta tails.” 
.............................................................

*FIN FORM*
For fin type definition, look up : Betta Tails & Colors listed here

*Why Cross Breed Fin Types
*PK – to improve body form, to thicken ray/fin
VT – to make fins longer
DT – to increase number of rays on all fins, to create a different fin type, to produce DT genos for 
 creating more DT

PK x HM = to create symmetrical HMPK, to thicken HM body and fin 
PK x CT = to create CTPK, to improve CT body and fin (thicken)
VT x HM = To lengthen HM fins
HM x CT = To improve CT spread and fin in general.
DT x PK = improve DT body, create DTPK, create symmetrical HMPK, improve PK fins in general
DT x VT = Create DTVT
DT x HM = To improve HM fins – add ray and or ray branching of HM
DT x CT = Create DTCT, add ray and or ray branching of CT

Sometimes achieving certain goals means crossing 3 or more traits. 

*Dominant – recessive fin traits*
http://watershed3.tripod.com/types.html
PK – recessive against long fins
RT – All alleles dominant or recessive against this allele ??? IMO round tail is dominant 
VT – dominant over all types 
DeT – recessive (???) - IMO true against VT and RT but dominant over HM
HM – recessive against all types. But the long fin trait is dominant over short fin
CT – recessive but will be carried for generations
DT – recessive also carried for generations

Round edges – dominant over pointed edges
Less rays – dominant over more rays
Wide webbing – recessive

*Note:* _Keep in mind that when crossing fin types the simple punnet square doesn’t always apply because in reality the genetic code of each type is very complex, involving many different genes. _


----------



## indjo

*Cross breeding fin types - Probabilities*
Assuming each breeder has true genes

*PK x VT** = *
Because VT is dominant over all other types you will probably produce mostly VT
Because rounded caudal is dominant, there would also be some RT – one of the “inbetween types
There would also be other inbetween types – too long for a PK but too short to be anything else
Though recessive towards VT, you might still get a few traditional PK. 

Long fin is dominant = L L
Short fin is recessive = l l

















*PK x HM*= (assuming both have true background)
This varies a bit depending on the type of PK. 
*Traditional PK* (180* caudal, 2- 4 rays, half circle dorsal, long pointed anal fins – unequal fins)
DeT and HM (both perfect but mostly rounded edges – and both long and equal anals), HM with shorter fins, in between fins (probably including round tail), a few traditional PK

*Asymmetric PK *(180* caudal, 4-8 rays, half circle dorsal with long front rays, long rounded anal)
DeT and HM both long and balanced anals, in between fins (too short to be HM but too long for a PK, DeTPK and HMPK with or without HM marking (HM type of anal), 

*Symmetrical PK* (180* caudal, 4-8 rays, extended dorsal with long front ray, equal anal)
DeT and HM with balanced fins, balanced HM with shorter fins, in between fins, symmetrical PK

*PK x long finned CT* = 
CT is recessive, Short fin is recessive;
100% will be CT-geno. _Physically there will be little to no CT with equal web reduction (apparent at older age)_, inbetween short and long finned (most should be long finned), some comb tail (slight web reduction - short or long).

regular tail (dominant) = CC
Crown Tail (recessive) = cc
long finned (dominant) = LL
short finned (recessive)= l l










*F3 = 
CTPK x CTPK = F3 = 100% CTPK*

*PK x long finned DT *= 
DT is recessive, Short fin is recessive;
Similar to the CT, there should be 100% DT-geno. Physically fin length result is similar to PK x HM spawn. Most would be long single tails, long to short fins, some have uneven caudal lobes and long dorsal, some may have one caudal lobe but longer dorsal. 
..................................................

*VT x DeT* = 
VT is diminant over HM, thus results should be long finned; VT, VT with slightly wider spread, round tail, delta tail, NO HM, some Rose carriers (VT x Rose)

*VT x HM* = 
VT, VT with wider caudal, RT, DeT. 

*VT x Rose* = 
VT, VT with wider caudal, RT carrier, DeT, SdeT/HM
It is best to wait until F1 is 6 months before continuing your line.

*VT x CT* = 
100% CT-geno; VT, with or without CT markings, VT-CT geno with wider spread, delta tail with or without web reduction, Comb VT or delta , There should be No equal web reduction,.

*VT x DT* = 
100% DT-geno ; Regular VT, VT with uneven caudal lobes or with longer dorsal, single tail VT with longer dorsal, regular VT, VT with wider spread.
*** If the DT were delta or HM, there would also be delta tail with or without DT markings.
..................................................
 
*DeT x HM* = mostly DeT, a few HM

*DeT x Rose* = DeT, HM, Rose

*HM x HM* = DeT, HM 
8 ray HM x 8 ray HM = HM, Rose, DeT

*HM x Rose* = Rose, HM, DeT

*HM x CT* = (assuming both are SDeT or HM)
100% CT-geno - Delta and HM with or without web reduction.

*HM x DT *= 
100% DT-geno – Single Tail DeT and HM, Single tail HM and Delta with or without longer dorsal, DT with unequal caudal lobes.
..................................................

*CT x DT* = 
Web reduction is recessive against full webbing; 
Double lobes is recessive against single tail
CTDT geno’s – Single tail HM and Delta with or without CT and DT markings.

Regular = CC 
Crown Tail = cc 
Crown Tail Geno = Cc 
Single Tail = DD
Double Tail = dd
Doublt Tail Geno = Dd









*F3=*
*Crown double tail x crown double tail = ccdd x ccdd = 100% CTDT*


----------



## KadenJames

Keep in mind that even a HM x HM spawn will only result in a few true HMs. There are multiple factors that affect a halfmoon, and all of the genetics need to be lined up just right in order to achieve it.


----------



## Crowntailed

What would be better male CT x female HM or male HM x female CT? I was going to go with the male CT x female HM because i have heard male HM are not very good fathers.


----------



## KadenJames

I would do female Hm x ct male. It's been studied that females have a bit more influence on the form of the offspring.


----------



## Crowntailed

The only fin type i dont see in this thread is EE? Would anyone like to explain how ee traits work and about ee fin types?


----------



## indjo

Anything recessive bred to the same recessive trait should produce mostly that recessive trait. Theoretically it should produce 100% but in reality, it will only be a majority - depending on their actual genetic background. 

But it may take at least 3 generations to produce a recessive trait when crossed to a dominant trait. The punnet square for big ear would look something like this:

EE = regular ear/pectoral
ee = big ear

(F0) Regular x Big ear = 100% big ear geno
Parents ---- E ------ E
e ----------- Ee ---- Ee
e ----------- Ee ---- Ee

*Note :* They should look 100% regular, but IME bettas genetics is far from simple so they will show some rather big ears.
....................................

(F1) geno x geno
P --------- E --------- e
E --------- EE -------- Ee
e --------- Ee -------- ee
25% regular, 50% geno, 25% big ear
.......................................

(F2) Big ear x big ear = 100% big ear (F3)
p ---------- e --------- e
e ---------- ee -------- ee
e ---------- ee -------- ee

*** I need to emphasize that this is theoretical. To my experience betta genetics is far more complicated due to constant mix breeding and possible mutations.


----------



## vette91

All this has to do with the caudal fin, but does any of you have any information on the dorsal fin? I know many people believe that the dorsal fin is one piece of the betta that has been ignored but has a lot to improve on.


----------



## indjo

To improve dorsal you would have to cross to a DT - look for a DT that has a long front ray, not the ones that has 2-3 tiny front rays. And one with an up right dorsal. Remember to focus on dorsal for further breeding because they are harder to maintain - though you've achieved the desired dorsal, if not bred correctly, it will return to a regular form.


----------



## KadenJames

The difference between "PK" and "HMPK" is the 180 degree spread (halfmoon shape) of the caudal. PK x HMPK will give you PK, as you are reducing the amount of branching by crossing to a non-halfmoon PK. Sometimes, even HMPK x HMPK will give you PK, because some of the traits (adequate branching & webbing) can be recessive and may not give the offspring the proper spread.


----------



## JikoJiko

KadenJames said:


> The difference between "PK" and "HMPK" is the 180 degree spread (halfmoon shape) of the caudal. PK x HMPK will give you PK, as you are reducing the amount of branching by crossing to a non-halfmoon PK. Sometimes, even HMPK x HMPK will give you PK, because some of the traits (adequate branching & webbing) can be recessive and may not give the offspring the proper spread.


Well that does make sense in a way. Duh...  
HMPK was created by the selective combination of PK and HM; therefore, if crossing a HMPK back to a traditional PK. Well you just said it. It would create more PK than HMPK. 

Thanks. :blueyay:


----------

