# Breeding my Plakat Male Betta with who???



## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Hello everyone. I have a ASAP question on the line. lol :lol:. Anyways, what if I breed my male Betta with a smaller female? Or is this even possible. The female seems to be showing signs of breeding. One day when I jarred a male in front of her. She immediately showed vertical bars. I feed them frozen bloodworms, High quality Flakes, Mosquito Larvae, worms (small), also as well as those little maggot looking critters :shock: for about two months now. The female I have no clue what on earth type she is. So if any of yall can help me figure that out it would be great!!! Though she has been a very dark color lately and not showing her horiz. stripes. My females naturally have those two Horiz. Stripes stressed or not stressed, the stripes are visible. Yet this time its not present at all. Only present when I turn on the lights. After she gets use to the lights she turns a light purple-babyblue hue. 

SO back to my other question. Is it OKAY to breed a smaller female with a slightly larger male??? (P.S. shes not like tiny compared to him. Maybe about 3-4 cm shorter in length.)

Some photos ;-): 

*Female Betta. Dunno what type it is. Help!!! :question: *P.S. the female is the smaller one. not the huge camera hogger.

















*MAle plakat.*


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

If you could get a full shot of the girl flaring, or tell us how many rays she has in her tail we could help you out. 

As for size you do generally want fish the same size, she might be a bit too small/young to match his size still.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

lvandert said:


> If you could get a full shot of the girl flaring, or tell us how many rays she has in her tail we could help you out.
> 
> As for size you do generally want fish the same size, she might be a bit too small/young to match his size still.



LOL. Dumb Betta dont want to stay still!!! I've taken over 20 pictures of her. Yet she doesn't like to stay still!!! these were the best ones. I'll try again. This is frustrating. :frustrated: The larger one always hogs the camera; therefore chasing the one I want to take pictures to swim away. Maybe I can jar her alone and take it. :idea: !!! I have never seen her flare. : ( 

I cant really see her rays because she is always on the move. Also quite transparent. >: O 

About the size, well that's a bummer. Thank you though. I'll try to get clearer pictures of her. ; P


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

lol alright. If you can just get a picture of her tail and then from there we could help. or maybe where did you get her at? Sometimes certain stores only sell one kind


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

Regardless if she is willing, and he is willing. Have you done your research? do you have all the supplies you need for the fry? Thats what needs to be done way before this step. You could have up to 500 fry and you need seperate jars for every male you have. Just a little to think about before you toss the female in with the male.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Anitax3x said:


> Regardless if she is willing, and he is willing. Have you done your research? do you have all the supplies you need for the fry? Thats what needs to be done way before this step. You could have up to 500 fry and you need seperate jars for every male you have. Just a little to think about before you toss the female in with the male.


LOL. DUh... I have already successfully spawned a spawn already. Ive placed their homes at my LFS as well as with friends. There will always be alot more to learn. You will never know everything from the start. I personally DO Trial and Error... Because I am actually experiencing it in real life. Researching is superb, but researching is not the actual thing happening. Not all spawns go exactly as research has for told. That's where Trial and Error comes along. The first couple of groups that spawned betta's didnt have research. Trial and error is the ultimate key in understanding the true PASsion of breeding Bettas. Not what worked for someone else.

210 Jars to jar fry!!! two 10 gallons for spawning. Two 20 gallons (long) for females (that I want personally). ETC..etc...etc..
*
__--- One may not know how it feels till one actually does it oneself even with all the research in the world ---__ *


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

In all honesty, I think you should do lots more research before you decide to breed. What are your plans for the offspring? Do you know how betta genetics work? Do you know what the parents will produce? Do you have the proper equipment and supplies (cultures, growout tubs, IAL, live plants, 100+ jars, etc)? Are you aware of the spawning process? Are these pet store fish, or fish from a breeder?



> LOL. DUh... I have already successfully spawned a spawn already. Ive placed their homes at my LFS as well as with friends. There will always be alot more to learn. You will never know everything from the start. I personally DO Trial and Error... Because I am actually experiencing it in real life.
> 
> 210 Jars to jar fry!!! ETC


Whoops, you must have posted that as I was tying. It's great that you have successfully spawned before, but I believe there is more you can learn. I can tell you that female is a veiltail, and the offspring won't exactly be of decent quality. You should strive to start your own line of good quality bettas- that way you could potentially make a profit, learn about genetics, and in the meantime you are improving the overall betta splenden species, instead of multiplying bettas with scrambled genetics.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Have you asked around to see what tail types, colors, patterns, etc that people want? The BUYER or ADOPTER should have say.

Have you decided to work on color, form, or "just because?" It's very important to have a goal, not just fill LFS's...

Do you have medications on hand in case the PK male decides to take a good chunk out of your female? Unlike the long finned fellas, PK males are a lot more agile :lol:

Are the fish from a store? If from a pet store, keep in mind if you would like to continue breeding getting higher quality bettas would be a lot better, because you will have the upper hand with selling or rehoming bettas. I asked around, made a poll etc for the buyer/adopter, plus made sure to get a decent quality pair(s) 

hope it helped a little bit. And I do understand the trial and error - I can only learn ever so much from paper and internet, but actually doing it you learn as well. Just make sure you have the basics down :lol:


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm glad you feel this way jikojiko, however it makes you sound a bit ignorant. Knowledge is helpful and It is beneficial to the fish you are raising and breeding for you to read about it and make the best conditions you can for them. If you feel that way then no need to ask any questions right?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Anitax3x said:


> I'm glad you feel this way jikojiko, however it makes you sound a bit ignorant. Knowledge is helpful and It is beneficial to the fish you are raising and breeding for you to read about it and make the best conditions you can for them. If you feel that way then no need to ask any questions right?



Agreed. Why ask questions when you think you can do everything yourself?

You said yourself you do not know what the female is. To me she looks like a VT. If her anal fin SWOOPS beneath the caudal, it's VT. (with exceptions to odd finned CTs but those are obvious). Make sure to have a hand on tail type =D It helps.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

lvandert said:


> lol alright. If you can just get a picture of her tail and then from there we could help. or maybe where did you get her at? Sometimes certain stores only sell one kind



MHM! I got three females from my buddy. He told me that "he forgot who the male and female...." Eh?? maybe he forgot because HIS WHOLE HOUSE IS LIKE A BETTA SHOP!!! lol. One of the females that look like the one we are talking about, jumped out of her jar and dried up like her bloodworms. ... 

Who knows. I thought that she was a plakat because they are jumpers and her sibling jumped out. She her self jumps for food at the top of the surface. Though idk!!! She can be a snake for all I know of about her. LOL! 

P.S. I'm getting a picture for you guys. Just taking longer than I thought to get a good photo.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

JikoJiko said:


> MHM! I got three females from my buddy. He told me that "he forgot who the male and female...." Eh?? maybe he forgot because HIS WHOLE HOUSE IS LIKE A BETTA SHOP!!! lol. One of the females that look like the one we are talking about, jumped out of her jar and dried up like her bloodworms. ...
> 
> Who knows. I thought that she was a plakat because they are jumpers and her sibling jumped out. She her self jumps for food at the top of the surface. Though idk!!! She can be a snake for all I know of about her. LOL!
> 
> P.S. I'm getting a picture for you guys. Just taking longer than I thought to get a good photo.


 
All bettas jump, regardless of fin type. Plakat females have much narrower, rectangle-shaped anal fins, where (like Sena pointed out), yours comes down at a sharp angle like a veil tail. 

It's important to know the genetic history of the fish you plan to breed.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Have you asked around to see what tail types, colors, patterns, etc that people want? The BUYER or ADOPTER should have say.
> 
> Have you decided to work on color, form, or "just because?" It's very important to have a goal, not just fill LFS's...
> 
> ...


Yes. Thank you. I am confident that I have the hand of it. I didnt get my bettas from the pet store since they say that pets store bettas might not be good quality. 

Though Im trying to complete the short finned blue hue of a PK. That is why I am trying to breed the male with the blueish girl to get a blue hue to the scales. : )


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> In all honesty, I think you should do lots more research before you decide to breed. What are your plans for the offspring? Do you know how betta genetics work? Do you know what the parents will produce? Do you have the proper equipment and supplies (cultures, growout tubs, IAL, live plants, 100+ jars, etc)? Are you aware of the spawning process? Are these pet store fish, or fish from a breeder?
> 
> 
> 
> Whoops, you must have posted that as I was tying. It's great that you have successfully spawned before, but I believe there is more you can learn. I can tell you that female is a veiltail, and the offspring won't exactly be of decent quality. You should strive to start your own line of good quality bettas- that way you could potentially make a profit, learn about genetics, and in the meantime you are improving the overall betta splenden species, instead of multiplying bettas with scrambled genetics.



LOL.. its ok. ofcourse I will be researching day and night. Its just that sometimes research can be a great leap forwards, but what if you spawn doesn't slide with your research. Then its a leap backwards. That;s all.. lol 

And I believe that veiltail is a dominant gene correct? compared to black colors that are recessive.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Anitax3x said:


> I'm glad you feel this way jikojiko, however it makes you sound a bit ignorant. Knowledge is helpful and It is beneficial to the fish you are raising and breeding for you to read about it and make the best conditions you can for them. If you feel that way then no need to ask any questions right?


Mhm. though I was asking the question about size initially. lol.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Agreed. Why ask questions when you think you can do everything yourself?
> 
> You said yourself you do not know what the female is. To me she looks like a VT. If her anal fin SWOOPS beneath the caudal, it's VT. (with exceptions to odd finned CTs but those are obvious). Make sure to have a hand on tail type =D It helps.


OH. Thanks. how about the size? is she too small for the male? hes like 3-4 cm longer than her..


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

It's easier to learn when you have good stock to begin with- you wouldn't learn how to drive a car on a bike, would you?  "Pet store fish" basically means a fish you don't know the genetic history of, and has scrambled genes like a rubix cube which makes it impossible to achieve any kind of goal. Especially as a newer breeder, I highly recommend obtaining a pair of breeding quality stock. That way you can see for yourself how genotypes and phenotypes work in breeding.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> All bettas jump, regardless of fin type. Plakat females have much narrower, rectangle-shaped anal fins, where (like Sena pointed out), yours comes down at a sharp angle like a veil tail.
> 
> It's important to know the genetic history of the fish you plan to breed.


ALrightie then. I will be prepared label her as VT. I think the other female in the tank is a VT too, but perhaps a DElta. Though her anal fin doesnt swoop like the smaller one. The larger ones anal fin forms a sort of sharp end. The male that I already spawned her with was a delta male. He was a sibling with her. So she must be a delta with him.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

JikoJiko said:


> ALrightie then. I will be prepared label her as VT. I think the other female in the tank is a VT too, but perhaps a DElta. Though her anal fin doesnt swoop like the smaller one. The larger ones anal fin forms a sort of sharp end. The male that I already spawned her with was a delta male. He was a sibling with her. So she must be a delta with him.


 
Plakat female-









Veiltail female-


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> It's easier to learn when you have good stock to begin with- you wouldn't learn how to drive a car on a bike, would you?  "Pet store fish" basically means a fish you don't know the genetic history of, and has scrambled genes like a rubix cube which makes it impossible to achieve any kind of goal. Especially as a newer breeder, I highly recommend obtaining a pair of breeding quality stock. That way you can see for yourself how genotypes and phenotypes work in breeding.


thank you, I am trying to order some good quality PK from this site http://www.plakathot.com/en/ 

Just dont know when.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

So it seems that its a PK. Since her anal fin looks like PK ones. Though that PK looks mixed with Halfmoons. Causing her finnage to spread 180 fan base.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

The female in the photo you've posted is a VT. Her anal fin slopes to a point, and it appears she has 2-ray branching.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

I would say she looks like a VT, or at least the little girl does. Her fin swoops under her tail like the VT in the picture


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

lvandert said:


> I would say she looks like a VT, or at least the little girl does. Her fin swoops under her tail like the VT in the picture



OH OH OH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! the front of her anal. OMG. yes. she must be a Vt.


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Thank you!


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

:rofl:


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## JikoJiko (Jul 18, 2012)

Thank you everyone for helping me get things straight. It seems that these horrible pictures I was taking is not needed. thank goodness. Cause she wouldn't stay still. even in the jar. I am on the look out for those female PK bettas. ; )


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)




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