# Betta floating at top of tank



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I woke up today to find my male betta floating up near the top of the tank. Part of his body is a little above the water. He seems a little sluggish but he still swims in bursts. He seems to be having issues staying down under the surface. He's just swimming directly under the surface. When he dives, he just kind of bobs up. He doesn't look bloated or anything although I think he might have a mild case of fin rot. 
My wife changed his water yesterday so I believe the amonia levels should be okay. 
He doesn't appear to be having any problems breathing. His gills aren't moving fast.
Any idea as to what's going on or could he just like hanging at the surface?


----------



## Hershey (Sep 28, 2012)

Could be SBD.


----------



## Hershey (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't know much about it, but you can try messaging Oldfishlady.


----------



## Hershey (Sep 28, 2012)

Did she use conditioner?


----------



## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

He may need some Epsom salt bath..If SBD it may help, I would try it, I hear for that, a few days of Epsom at 1tsp per gallon of water, with daily water changes can help.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't think it's Swim Bladder Disorder. He's not upside down. He doesn't appear bloated (at least to my eyes). No curved spine. No swimming with the tail above the head. 
It's just his dorsal fin that's above the surface. He seems to be swimming around fine, with plenty of his usual energy, he's just at the surface all the time. 
He's swimming down and shoving himself under stuff to keep himself from floating up.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

To my knowledge, she used conditioner.


----------



## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Blacklight said:


> I don't think it's Swim Bladder Disorder. He's not upside down. He doesn't appear bloated (at least to my eyes). No curved spine. No swimming with the tail above the head.
> It's just his dorsal fin that's above the surface. He seems to be swimming around fine, with plenty of his usual energy, he's just at the surface all the time.
> He's swimming down and shoving himself under stuff to keep himself from floating up.


If I remember correctly any bouancy issues is related to SBD..when they cannot keep from floating to the top..you can check with Old Fish Lady..or Sakura..they can help you best..I have never dealt with a fishy with SBD but have seen some members with fishy's that have the same symptoms. You can PM either one of them for help..Good luck


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

It sounds like a textbook case of SBD to me honestly. I haven't had betta's with it but I have had platy's and goldfish who had gotten it and this was the same thing that happened.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I hope I don't have to lose my fishy.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

If you treat with epsom salt as instructed you shouldn't.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Do you get the epsom salts at the pet store? I've never seen any there. Is there a technique to doing this properly? Like an itemized instruction list? I'm scared of adding stuff to the tank that isn't made for aquariums.

I thought it was a bad idea to get salt in a fresh water tank.


----------



## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Blacklight said:


> Do you get the epsom salts at the pet store? I've never seen any there. Is there a technique to doing this properly? Like an itemized instruction list? I'm scared of adding stuff to the tank that isn't made for aquariums.
> 
> I thought it was a bad idea to get salt in a fresh water tank.


Nope, for certain illnesses it works, You can get it at any Pharmacy..or supermarket, has to be free of perfumes..then do it for 3-5 days, 1 tsp per gallon of water, again, with daily water changing, predissolve the salt with your water conditioner and hot water in a small bottle, or container, to make sure dissolved well..then add to regular water and let sit for about 15-20 mins..like a regular water change, and accliminate fishy slowly..I have done this with my resuces all 4 of them for fin issues, and they are fine..if no improvement in 5 days up the dosage to 2 tsp per/gal..Best of Luck..keep us posted..


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

lelei said:


> Nope, for certain illnesses it works, You can get it at any Pharmacy..or supermarket, has to be free of perfumes..then do it for 3-5 days, 1 tsp per gallon of water, again, with daily water changing, predissolve the salt with your water conditioner and hot water in a small bottle, or container, to make sure dissolved well..then add to regular water and let sit for about 15-20 mins..like a regular water change, and accliminate fishy slowly..I have done this with my resuces all 4 of them for fin issues, and they are fine..if no improvement in 5 days up the dosage to 2 tsp per/gal..Best of Luck..keep us posted..


I just want to make sure I have this right. I do a 50% water change and to the bucket of replacement water, I add 5 tablespoons of salt (5 gallon tank). And I repeat this 5 tablespoons of salt every 50% water change I do? And I change the water once a day?

Or do I take the fish from the tank, drain all water, refill with water with the disolved salt, re acclimate and put the fish back in the tank each day?
Is it best to go and get a small 1 gallon tank to use as a hospital tank rather than using my whole 5 gallon tank for this? I've never treated this before and I'm nervous.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I believe when you do the water changes you have to do a 100% water change, or at least that is what has worked best for me. Every day is also best, when the water gets above 0 ammonia it only hinders fish healing and getting better.


----------



## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Blacklight said:


> I just want to make sure I have this right. I do a 50% water change and to the bucket of replacement water, I add 5 tablespoons of salt (5 gallon tank). And I repeat this 5 tablespoons of salt every 50% water change I do? And I change the water once a day?
> 
> Or do I take the fish from the tank, drain all water, refill with water with the disolved salt, re acclimate and put the fish back in the tank each day?
> Is it best to go and get a small 1 gallon tank to use as a hospital tank rather than using my whole 5 gallon tank for this? I've never treated this before and I'm nervous.


The best way to treat a sick fishy, is in a Hospital tank, such as a Krittr keeper, 1.75 gal it works wonders, easily to maintain, for the duration of treatment, especially with daily water changes..or a 2 gallon, similar size..you dont really want to change 5 gall of water daily..it's terribly difficult.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

+1

smaller tanks are best for sick fish. Plus with SBD he would appreciate a smaller tank. You can get a 1 gallon at wallmart for $5


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

With buoyancy issue it can be several things-It can be swim bladder related, genetic, rearing or labyrinth organ related.

With some Betta it can be due to genetic, birth defect, deformity or poor feeding/rearing at the Betta farm and even a combination.

Sometimes you can get floaters, belly slider, fallers in a spawn due to genetic, birth defects...etc.....Sometimes the S/S will resolve on their own-only for it to return as the Betta matures. Most breeders will cull these fry-but some don't and they end up on the pet shop shelves.

It can be caused by poor feeding and husbandry at the breeders too. It can also be caused by too cool/dry air over the water during the growth/development stage and labyrinth organ development.
With an already compromised Betta-sometimes the too cool/dry air can cause these issues too. They can kinda catch a cold of sorts....

Best treatment I have found and depending on the cause-may or may not cure-but it can ease the symptoms to a degree. With some chronic buoyancy issues they need to stay in the Epsom salt(_Not aquarium salt_) at low dose long term.

To treat-
Best to use a QT-the small temporary cups some Bettas are sold in work great for this. But anything will work-you goal is to use a container to provide shallow water and to cover with plastic veggie wrap to help retain heat/humidity over the water for the labyrinth organ and that can be floated in a heated tank to maintain water temp in the 77-78F range for treatment. (_Be sure and attach the QT to the side of the heated tank so it doesn't sink_)

Premix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water. Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and a tannin source if you have one. Either IAL (_1lrg crushed/gal_) or naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf (_20crushed/gal_). Let this steep for 30min...Shake well before use...

Using this premixed treatment water-make 25% water changes every 15min for 1 hour today. This will get them acclimated to the new chemistry and start the treatment.
_The Betta needs to stay in the covered QT-in this treatment water for the duration of the treatment period of 14 days._

Tomorrow-using the premixed treatment water make 50% daily water changes for the next 13 days.
_If you used a tannin source-the jug of Tx water should look darker every day and this is what you want-Don't worry about any leaf bits that get in the QT.
_
Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals. If you have access to live mosquito larva offer several rinsed a couple of times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response.

Keep us posted....


----------



## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

What & how much do you feed him? If that is the only symptom he is exhibiting, fast him for about 3 days & he should be OK. One of my new females was having an issue with swimming downward & would pop back to the top. I didn't feed her for 24hrs, gave her one pellet, fasted for another 2 days & by day 5 she was swimming around normally. I put her in a 1g heated container for the time & added 1/2 tsp of aq salt with daily 100% water changes. On day 6 she went back into the 10G QT tank where she's swimming around like nothing ever happened.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

My wife just noticed that he has white spots on his fins and also on one of his gills. It looks a little like dandruff. I don't know if this is related or not.

Question: Is aquarium salt the same thing as Epsom salts? I would feel more comfortable using something designed for aquariums rather than going to a pharmacy and buying the stuff. I'm just paranoid that there's going to be ingredients in it that aren't listed on it. There's no actual ingredients list on these Epsom salts containers. It just lists the salt as the active ingredient.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

are they small spots? It might be ick.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Yeah. They're small white spots. They look like dandruff. They are small. I can't really tell what they are.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Sounds like Ick, you will need Aquarium salt and a temp of 85 degrees. 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon with 100% daily water changes should clear it up, if not then there are medications you can get as well.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Would the ich cause his floating? Or am I probably dealing with two separate things here?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Per our PM's...

If he only has a few spots-I wouldn't use any pesticides-You can't kill Ich while it is on the fish without killing the fish-The Ich has to fall off-then manual removal with water changes should take care of it. Ich will die without a host and so the tank itself should be free of any Ich by the time you have completed the ES treatment in a QT. The only thing I would do different with the treatment instruction-Is to make 100% water changes every 3rd day instead of 50%-while using the premixed treatment water in QT.

Best way to treat Ich on a Betta-is with manual removal from the tank as they fall off the fish and supporting the immune response.

You can raise the temp to speed the Ich life cycle-to make them fall off faster, however, higher temp can also be stressful on the fish and help pathogens colonize faster-since the water temp need to be raised to 86F.

Aquarium salt can help kill Ich, provided that it isn't salt resistant-The main use of salt is to help prevent a secondary infection due to the wounds left by the Ich as it detaches from the fish. Epsom salt will do the same thing-since both Epsom salt and aquarium salt have antibacterial/fungal properties.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

And, of course, the wife if freaking out because we have to spend more money, after spending almost $100 (which already streached us beyond our means) between our two fish. She's pissed and doesn't want to spend another dime on them. Ugh. 
We don't have any kind of quarantine tank (especially not one we can put at the top of the tank)so we're going to have to buy one.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Epsom salt is cheap...1 pound bag less than $3.00 in my area and Oak leaves can be free if you have some Oak trees near by...Mosquito larva..free if you have them in your area.....A 1gal jug...I use an old, yet clean 1gal Milk jug...QT-the container he came in or any household container that will fit in the heated tank-quick rinse in vinegar to cut any soap residue if needed.

I understand cost......You can make it as expensive or as low cost as you want...Personally....I get creative and use low cost, natural methods, however, I do understand that not everyone has the things I have at my finger tips.....


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I just bought one of those small breeder tanks that you can either hang off the back of the tank or place in the tank as a temperature acclimator. I also bought some API liquid Super Ick Cure. I assume you just put this in the tank with the fish? 
I can probably put him in that little breeder tank and then slowly change the water out for the epsom salt water. The secret is going to be measuring the right ammount of salt to go into that little tank each water change.


----------



## jsgossamer (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a betta at work that gets the floaty thing everytime I overfeed him pellets. Is he overweight? The floaties can happen with obese bettas also. I would also fast him a couple days and see if that helps. My guy that gets the floaties from pellets gets freeze dried brine shrimp a few times a week and it helps. As far as the possible ick, aqurium salt is not very expensive.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm first going to try the ick treatment and the fasting first. That seems the easiest rout. If he doesn't improve in a couple days, I'll stick him in the little breeder tank and start doing the salt water thing. You do the ick treatments with the fish in the tank right? I don't have to remove him to put the treater in there?
I have a leaf hammock stuck to the side of the tank toward the surface that he can sit on if he gets tired.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm not going to be able to increase the heat in the tank to improve the chances of getting rid of them. Our heaters are non-controllable and my wife has restricted me from buying a controllable one so hopefully the treatment will be enough if I follow the instructions.


----------



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I DO put this API Super Ick Cure in the tank while the fish is in there, right? Or do I have to remove the fish? It doesn't say on here. It just says to put it in the tank. I'm assuming this means with the fish in? Forgive me for being stupid.


----------



## BlueJWebb (Sep 6, 2012)

Honestly I would do the salt treatment first. It's less stress on the fish. OFL really knows her stuff, and her advise hasn't let me down yet.


----------



## BlueJWebb (Sep 6, 2012)

Is the breeder tank contained or does it have holes in it to allow water from the tank your floating it in to fill up? If so you'd still be treating the whole tank with whatever you put in his water. If you still have the cup he came in it works great as a hospital cup. That's what I've been using.


----------

