# Well this just happened...



## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

I was walking down the road looking for a pet toad, and using my flashlight I saw a toad. So I went over to it (it was in my neighbors drive way) and it was the cutest little toad. It's a female fowlers toad. So I picked it up and brought it home. Well I'm on vacation so it's in this ghetto box :lol: but when I go home it will have a 45 gallin all to itself


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## OpalBones (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm not sure how I feel about wild catching animals and making them to be a pet. It's one thing it its to keep an injured animal/saving their life or trying to save a species from extinction but another to take one from their natural habitat where they live and putting them in a (compared to the outside world it knew before) small aquarium. Just my opinion on that. 

She's a pretty looking toad, tho.


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## AukWord (Mar 15, 2015)

OpalBones said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about wild catching animals and making them to be a pet. It's one thing it its to keep an injured animal/saving their life or trying to save a species from extinction but another to take one from their natural habitat where they live and putting them in a (compared to the outside world it knew before) small aquarium. Just my opinion on that.
> 
> She's a pretty looking toad, tho.


Yes. All of this.

Beyond the ethical considerations, I'd imagine that is illegal, unless this is a non-native species, perhaps.

Please don't just release her now, though, unless you consult with a wildlife specialist. We humans can introduce diseases and parasites they are not exposed to in the wild, and that could cause a catastrophic hit on the local ecosystem.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

It's legal as long as you have a fishing liscense which we have.


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## AukWord (Mar 15, 2015)

CRAZYHERMITCRAB said:


> It's legal as long as you have a fishing liscense which we have.


What was the point, though? Especially seems a bit odd to me that you'd go out seeking to capture one, right when you're planning a vacation. <shrug>

There are many things that are legal that I wouldn't consider ethical.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

There is a split view in ambibisn keeping communities about taking animals from the wild, but i believe that as long as you give the animal good care it is justified. Yes it isn't as close as big as its wild home but at least it's more secure and has constant temperatures and constant food and clean water. Yes I went out looking for a toad because where I live the toads do not come out until summer. Also this species of toad is not sold online or locally because it is illegal to sell native species, I can however buy southern toads and cane toads here but I would rather have a fowler toad or an American toad. Anyway it is my toad and he is having a great life free of dangers.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Here's his tank it's 45 gallons


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Here he is


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

He is SO cute!!!!! I hope the female likes the new home!!


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

DangerousAngel said:


> He is SO cute!!!!! I hope the female likes the new home!!


Thanks. haha it turned out to be a boy. I named him octavius.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

I am copying and pasting from the new jersey hunting and fishing licence regulations. Although, Fowler toads are legal to capture, you are only allowed one and these are the regulations of capturing:
Frogs

The use of artificial light to take frogs at night is illegal.
Frogs may be taken with long bow and arrow, including compound bows, crossbows, spears or gigs. 
Spears or gigs may not have more than five barbs and cannot be used in*approved trout waters

So in short, make your own determination of what it says and what you did to obtain the toad. And I have made my own. In my opinion, it is immoral and irresponsible to capture wildlife and force it to live a life of captivity. From a person who has spent the majority of my life rehabilitating and releasing wildlife, I would never try to keep a wild animal of any kind as a pet. Also from a health side, you have absolutely no understanding of the diseases that you have opened your home to. Wild animals belong in the wild, not in your house.


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## Warhawk (Feb 23, 2014)

Not to confuse the issue but isn't that a toad not a frog? 

The law sounds like it's talking about "Frog gigging" for getting "frog legs" you pretty much kill the frog while you catch them, we did that in the south a few times a year great time. Legally they are different so a smart lawyer could use that to get charges dismissed.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Under the allowed species, it placed frogs and toads in the same category of amphibians. I can also copy and paste that information if there is any digression.


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## Warhawk (Feb 23, 2014)

rubbie5837 said:


> Under the allowed species, it placed frogs and toads in the same category of amphibians. I can also copy and paste that information if there is any digression.



I'm not trying to argue. 

Just saying frogs and toads are different but if the state says they are the same for the law then that's the end of it, they have the finale say.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

The following native reptile and amphibian species have*NO CLOSED SEASON.
The DAILY LIMIT is 1 (one) and POSSESSION LIMIT is 1 (one).

SALAMANDERS
Allegheny Mountain Dusky Salamander
Eastern Redback Salamander
Eastern Red-Spotted Newt
Longtail Salamander
Northern Dusky Salamander
Northern Red Salamander
Northern Slimy Salamander
Northern Spring Salamander
Northern Two-lined Salamander
Seal Salamander
Spotted Salamander
Wehrle's Salamander
Valley and Ridge Salamander

FROGS and TOADS
Eastern American Toad
Eastern Gray Treefrog
Fowler's Toad
Northern Leopard Frog
Pickerel Frog
Spring PeeperWood Frog

SNAKES
Eastern Garter Snake
Eastern Milksnake
Eastern Ratsnake
Northern Black Racer
Northern Brown Snake
Northern Redbelly Snake
Northern Ringneck Snake
Northern Water Snake

TURTLES
Eastern Musk Turtle
Eastern Painted Turtle
Eastern Spiny Softshell
Map Turtle
Midland Painted Turtles

SKINKS / LIZARDS
Five-lined Skink


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## tuxthebetta (Apr 14, 2015)

Honestly I don't think this is as big a legal issue (if there even is one) as it is an ethical one.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Exactly. My point was to show that "spotlighting" meaning using a flashlight to aid in the capture of the toad was against the law, but it is definitely unethical to capture a wild animal and attempt to keep it as a "pet".


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## AukWord (Mar 15, 2015)

rubbie5837 said:


> Exactly. My point was to show that "spotlighting" meaning using a flashlight to aid in the capture of the toad was against the law, but it is definitely unethical to capture a wild animal and attempt to keep it as a "pet".


Thank you (and any others who commented similarly) for your ethical integrity.

I was astounded someone actually came on this thread and squealed about cuteness. :roll:

If this had been a deer or an owl or a fox, someone would have been making an uproar, and some kind of permit and/or demonstration of a necessary reason to keep captive would have been required.

I guess little amphibians (and fish) don't merit such protection under the law, or culturally.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

A wild animal is a wild animal, no matter it's species. I have rehabilitated wildlife, but never would have wanted to keep it from it's natural environment, no matter how "cute" it is. You run too much of a risk of introducing deseases and or interference with the balance of nature. To that toad, you are a scary stranger who took you from your home, threw you into a strange country, and locked you into a room. Yes, they provide you with a sort of food, warmth, and a make believe "natural" environment. It's immoral in my opinion. Also, just a tid bit of information, in case you didn't know this, Fowler toads excrete poison from those warts that are potent enough to kill other small critters and make you sick. So since you have taken him into captivity, please handle with care and be absolutely sure that after handling, you thoroughly wash your hands.


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## LarixLyallii (Jan 19, 2015)

I agree with rubbie5837, on all points. I'd actually go so far as to say that with the huge number of the other animals you're currently caring for, to add even more is, in my opinion, incredibly irresponsible, and not fair to your pets - there's literally not enough time in the day for you to give each of them the attention they deserve, or that's how it seems to me after looking at the numbers of animals you've talked about owning. *shrug*


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Okay first if all, I honestly do not care what you think, Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Also in New Jersey it may be illegal to use a flashlight to find a toad, but in the state I was In it wasn't. So therefore in New Jersey no law was broken because it was not captured in New Jersey. But the fact of someone saying I don't care for my current pets is completely different than saying taking a toad from the wild is unethical. All my pets get hours of attention from me. The fact that I have a large number of pets has nothing to do with the fact of owning a toad. And how is me getting a toad "not fair to my other pets." They don't mind? It's no any changes to their life. Keeping this wild animal isn't illegal but releasing him sure is. And if you think I'd release my pet who I love and he loves me into the wild your out of your minds.


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## SillyBettaGirl (Mar 10, 2015)

Warhawk said:


> Not to confuse the issue but isn't that a toad not a frog?
> 
> The law sounds like it's talking about "Frog gigging" for getting "frog legs" you pretty much kill the frog while you catch them, we did that in the south a few times a year great time. Legally they are different so a smart lawyer could use that to get charges dismissed.


It is talking about Frog gigging. I dont know about NJ, but in my state it is actual legal to take up to 4 of one species (that is on the allowed list) from the wild. If anyone knows anything about toads here, its me. I have studied and handled many species of them for over 10 years. There are no "parasites" or such that we can introduce to them. For some reptiles and other amphibians im sure, but not toads. Toads become domesticated in captivity and lose their fear of humans, see us as their owner and one who feeds them, and can even be taught tricks. It is illegal to release any toad you have had in captivity for more than 30 days in my state for that very reason.

As far as it being "ethical", wether something is ethical or not is an opinion. The law is the law and must be followed. Personally, all animals originally came from the wild. We would not have captive bred animals if we did not take wild animals first. This species of toad is not available captive bred, as well as most toad species. For some species, like the cane toad, its doing the toad a favor taking them from the wild because they will not be killed as they are seen as a pest. There is even a sport made out of cane toads where people use them as a golf ball to golf-alive. Its called toad golfing. 

So basicly this isnt a legal matter, but seeing as something being "ethical" is only an opinion, you can not persecute her for your opinion on the matter. You have the right to state your opinion, but she can not get in any trouble for it.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

(a) Prior to the issuance of any permit permitted by these regulations, every applicant shall, on the forms provided by the Department, demonstrate that:

1. The animal will be fed an adequate diet; and

2. The animal is housed or caged in a manner that:

i. Allow the animal to perform the normal behavior patterns of its species; and

ii. Prevents disease, liberation or accidental injury to the animal and the public; and

3. The method of acquisition did not violate the laws and regulations of this State, any other state or the Federal Government; and

4. The animal shall receive prompt treatment for any illness or injury from a licensed veterinarian; and

5. The animal is free of infectious diseases and parasites which may be dangerous to the animal, livestock or people of the State, provided that the Division may request certification that the animal for which the permit is being sought is free from infectious diseases and parasites from a licensed New Jersey veterinarian or a person recognized as qualified to make such certification by the Director of the Division of Fish, Game and Shellfisheries.



My toad is fed mealworms, superworms, horn worms, wax worms, phoniex worms, crickets, dubia roaches, and various other common feeders. All feeders are gut loaded and fed with calcium and vitamins. 
The minimum tank requirement for a toad is 10 gallons, mine resides in a 45 gallon. Humidity is adjusted to perfection as is heat. There are multiple inches of Eco earth. Many hides and plants, water bowl is changed daily.
Technically I was not using the flashlight as a way to find the toad, I was walking down a dark road and my iPhone video flash was all I had to guide my path. And that rule is exempt in the state I resided in.
Yes I have reptile vets in my area that can get him treatment if needed.
He's the and animal is free of disease and parasites...


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

^Above is the reguirements to possess an animal which require a permit. For an animal such as a fowler toad no permit is required ro keep it, however even if one was required I would qualify.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

To add. The limit of ambiance combined (excluding bullfrogs, and green frogs which have their own limit) you can have a combined amount of 15. So I could have 15 fowlers.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Daily Limit	Possession Limit
Bullfrog	July 1 through October 31	10 (combined species)	20 (combined species)
Northern Green Frog	July 1 through October 31	10 (combined species)	20 (combined species)
Snapping Turtle	July 1 through October 31	15	30
Amphibian Eggs and Tadpoles	No closed season	15 (combined species)	15 (combined species)
Timber Rattlesnake*	June 13 through July 31	1 annual limit** (must be at least 42 inches in length, measured lengthwise along the dorsal surface from the snout to the tail, excluding the rattle, and must possess 21 or more subcaudal scales.***)
Northern Copperhead	June 13 through July 31	1 annual limit**


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

Moderator's Note... I have removed 3 posts!

This is a warning to those in this thread who choose to take things to a personal level. You may discuss the issues of taking and homing the toad but please do not make personal attacks. Further discussion along those lines will result in infractions. 

You can agree to disagree about the legal and moral issues of taking or keeping the toad... but not judge another person's ability to care for their pets. This of course ends in backlash and arguments when we take the discussion to a personal level. Please refrain from personal attacks. 

I have reopened the thread so that you can further discuss the topic.


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## Nova betta (Dec 5, 2014)

I know CazyHermitCrab would never take on a pet that he/she couldn't take care of. She spends hours on her pets and lots of money. This captive toad has a 45 gallon all to himself and his temperature and humidity is monitored.

by the way your toad is really cute and looks healthy. i hope he enjoys life with you! Although i would prefer for him to be living in the wild he seems to have a pretty good home with CrazyHermitCrab.


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

AukWord said:


> Thank you (and any others who commented similarly) for your ethical integrity.
> 
> I was astounded someone actually came on this thread and squealed about cuteness. :roll:
> 
> ...


I would like to state that I was just trying to be supportive and happy for CrazyTheHermitCrab. I know that they have a more than adequate home for their new frog and knows how to properly care for him. They also know and are following the law. I would never take home a wild animal myself as I don't have the room and would have no idea how to care for one.
I hope he's doing good CrazyTheHermitCrab!


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I agree DangerousAngel. If CrazyHermitCrab didn't have a proper home or was without experience and knowledge about the care of this toad I would be concerned. It appears she does 

Who's to say this toad may or not be content in his/her new home. Not me, that's for sure, I am not a toad .... That is my personal opinion, others may not agree..lol.

*Live long and prosper little toad !*


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Although, I am very adamant about my view of wild animals, I would never agree with the fact that the amount of pets you have will determine the care they are provided. 
Wait! Before you criticize... Allow me to explain. I know people who have one pet, and that single pet gets severely neglected. I also know people who have tons of pets, and are extremely well cared for. So I have no doubt that this toad, as well as any of your other vast amounts of pets, are being cared for. My only problem was from an ethical standpoint. But if you are willing to make the commitment to give the little guy the best care you could possibly give, then that's all good. As long as you put the animals' needs above your selfish desires, then at least you are doing what would be required. The amount of pets someone has SHOULD have nothing to do with the care they receive. I have said this a million times, if you can't afford or are not willing to provide the basic needs, then you shouldn't get it. I have no doubts that he isn't being cared for, but again, I am a person who believes wild animals are wild animals, and not meant to be pets.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I don't really have an opinion either way... but just wanted to say to be careful telling people that you transported a wild animal across state lines. It's illegal in many states to do that (which is really strange when you think about it since the lines are arbitrary anyway, and animals migrate across state lines all the time), but there are cases of people having their wild pets confiscated and killed.


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## Synapse (May 10, 2015)

I like how much everyone cares about the little toad. My opinion is maybe it could be unethical in the sense that the animal was not captive bred, therefore perhaps has a different temperament than it's conditioned brothers.

I used to catch toads, and snakes. I used to release them. I kept a frog in it's last stages of development once, to watch it. And released it. I caught a garter in the middle of a project area-- she had scale rot (what I was told), and I decided to keep her (she healed up a lot. I fed her worms and fish). She lived 1 1/2 yrs, before we had an accident.
I've always passed wild rescues to their appropriate rescue organizations.

... hm. In the same breath, we domesticate animals for our own pleasures of owning them. Many animals go inadequately kept.


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