# baby fry's question



## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Hi all, just wondering this is my first time breeding betta and my fry's is about 1 month old but i have a lot of fry's that can't swim is that common? I have around 50-70 fry's but 10 of them seem like they can swim or move right and some are really big than other like 2-3 time bigger. I feed them only bbs.


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## Fabian (Dec 16, 2011)

Do you add in the bbs shells too?
Are they swimming sideways?
Those who can't swim should be culled already.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

well some bbs shell is in the tank i couldnt remove of shell from the bbs. The one that are handicap i feel bad killing them and most of them are swimming sideways. Is it bad to have the shell in there? And you recommend me removing the one that can't swim (aka kill them)? I feel like a killer now  ...


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Do you have lids over the tank?


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

No should I ?


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## KirstenMarie (Dec 23, 2012)

Culling them would actually be a better idea, if you don't then your basically just letting them live with deformities. You could also just be lengthening the amount of time that they could be suffering.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Instead of harvesting BBS from the top, you can attach (IF you're using an up side down plastic bottle) an airline tube at the bottom (cap). Install a valve and a connector so you could connect it to an air pump when hatching them and disconnect when you want to harvest. Shine a flashlight near the tube so BBS gathers there then open valve to flush them out.
Or do everything regularly but shine a flashlight at the bottom of the bottle and siphon them out.

Never pour BBS out since egg shells will also be collected. These shells are harmful to the fry.

Swim bladder issues are common when feeding BBS. Since BBS are small, fry will eat as many and as quickly as they can, often then over eating. 

Wait until they've digested their food (belly not bloating) and see if they can swim properly. Remove the ones that can't. By now (1 month) you can introduce other foods. See if they still have problems eating other foods.

Good luck.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sadly, culling is part of breeding....Since we use closed systems it is up to us to cull the unhealthy, weak, small that would naturally be culled in the native ecosystem. By culling the weak, small and unhealthy will help your other fry grow strong. Also, IMO/E-especially for new hobbyist you should cull your fry down to a more manageable number. Quality-vs-Quantity....

Tell us more about your tank you have your fry...size, filter, live plants, additives, temp, what are you using to retain the heat/humidity over the water, how much and how often are the water changes.
How often and how much BBS are you feeding and how you are hatching and collecting to feed.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Well im not sure what you call this live plant but i got it from petco and it pretty common and i have the temp around 75-82 and i feed them bbs 2-3 times aday. I don't have any filter yet Im still waiting for it to come in the mail and i clean the 10gal fish tank everyday with a turkey baser and replace about 10% of the water. I collect the bbs with the baser by puting a light near the top of the water and letting the shrimp come to the light than i suck them up and filter it through a coffee filter.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You might want to cover the top of the tank with plastic veggie wrap to help retain the heat/humidity over the water. I have found that fry tend to do better with the higher humidity and can help prevent buoyancy problems and mass die off due to when the fry start to develop their labyrinth organ at about 2-6 weeks. Also, I would try and get the water temp to at least 80F for this young of fry.

It is better to feed newly hatched BBS with their yolk sac intact to fry this young too...especially when its the only food source. You can have fry loss, health and growth issues due to poor nutrition. Once the BBS have used their yolk sac they have very little nutrition. I like to keep 2 BBS hatcheries going about 24h apart so that I will always have more nutritious food for the fry-Plus it is easier to harvest them IMO.

I also would cull all the fry that are showing buoyancy issues for the overall health of the other fry.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Okay i will start cull before the next feed but how do you knew which one to cull because some of them just like sitting on the bottom of the tank and they swim up for air then right by down.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The way I decide who to cull-is by the activity and overall appearance. And this can change based on goals and needs regarding color and fin type, but I always cull the unhealthy, deformed...etc.....

I start with any that look to have buoyancy, clamp fins, deformities. One that seem to be less active or showing abnormal behaviors.

Generally, in the first week or so-I will cull half the fry-then over the next 6 weeks-I may cull by half again. Usually by 6 weeks I will have culled down to about 30-50 fry. Then after 6 weeks I may cull that number by half...it depends on what my goal is for that spawn and/or how many I need to meet an order. But I like to cull hard since I have so many spawns-Plus, in my opinion...quality is more important than quantity.....The Bettas I rear-I want them to be healthy so that the new owner won't have any issues related to breeding/rearing...Its out of my hands once they leave my fish room-but at least I know I am sending out good stock to start with.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

I guess that make a lot of sense thanks.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What is the source of your pair.


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

Do they swim in a zig-zag pattern,fast bursts of speed but not swimming normaly?
I just started a thread asking about some of mine.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Both parents are vt female is white w/red fins and male is clear with clear/gold fins. I have more fry's than i though that looks abnormal. I only culled 9 so far, it's so hard catch them with burst of speed they have.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

indjo said:


> Instead of harvesting BBS from the top, you can attach (IF you're using an up side down plastic bottle) an airline tube at the bottom (cap). Install a valve and a connector so you could connect it to an air pump when hatching them and disconnect when you want to harvest. Shine a flashlight near the tube so BBS gathers there then open valve to flush them out.
> Or do everything regularly but shine a flashlight at the bottom of the bottle and siphon them out.
> 
> Never pour BBS out since egg shells will also be collected. These shells are harmful to the fry.
> ...


Well isn't there always egg shells on the bottom of the 2 litter bot?


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

*my fry's @ 5 weeks*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnbEMTrt90s


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

joecool966 said:


> Well isn't there always egg shells on the bottom of the 2 litter bot?


It's been quite some time since I last used BBS but as far as I know most egg shells float, one or two might sink and will sit on the floor (seldom if ever). You do not siphon the floor - but a little higher. Same thing with the tube attached to the cap - the tube will stick out a bit thus anything on the floor will not be flushed out. DO NOT flush ALL of the water out.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

i use a siphon but there is alot of egg shell on the bottom of the bottle so i siphon near the bottom and catch as much as i can and throw the rest away. If a egg doesn't hatch does it float or sink?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Some sink, some float. I forgot which are the good eggs - float or sink. All I remember is that they are constantly flying all over the bottle by the bubbles.

I hope someone can add better info on this.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

With my BBS eggs...unhatched eggs sink and shells from hatched float, however, this is for the first 24h...after that-everything seems to sink.

Once you turn off the airstone and allow everything to settle-you can use a flashlight to shine in one area and the BBS will be attracted to the light to make collection easier.
I like to siphon mine off into a brine shrimp net that I have resting over a empty container to catch the water-Then I rinse them under running water before I feed to the fry using an eyedropper to target feed.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Well another question can you over feed your fry's? I put way too much bbs today and their belly looks like it will explode.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I would add Java moss to Baby Setups. They help clean water and small organisms that can act like snacks can grow.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes, you can overfeed the fry with BBS or any food for that matter-By overfeeding, sometimes you can see buoyancy problems that may or may not resolve on its own. In some cases overfeeding can cause long term problems with developing fry.

A good varied diet fed in small frequent meals is best-Watch their tummy-it should look round and usually will be the color of the food.
I would make water changes after overfeeding and if you add some common snails to the fry tank-they can help to a degree with cleanup between the needed daily water changes.

IMO/E-adding live plants is almost always beneficial....Live plants provide-cover, resting spots off the floor, help with water quality and provide some microorganisms for free range fry food-This of course can vary.....

Water changes are also really important for best growth/development-When spawning using the standard method-at least 50-80% daily to twice-three times a day-depending on spawn size and if you have lots of fast growing/thriving plants-again, many variables....
Proper water temp-neither too warm or too cool-I have found more with developing eggs than fry-that too warm or cool can cause too fast or slow development that can result in weak fry.
Heat and humidity over the water is also important-especially when the fry start to develop the labyrinth organ-between the age of 2-6 weeks. Too cool/dry air over the water when the fry take their first breath of atmospheric air can sometimes result in mass die off and/or long term health issues.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Free range fry? Whats the other option?


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

What free range? I just got some decapsulated bbs and i order some mircoworm. Hopefully they will eat the decap bbs sense I've been only feefing live food. I got one small snail which keep my tank super tank clean and i think he's looking for food now.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

IMO/E-adding live plants is almost always beneficial....Live plants provide-cover, resting spots off the floor, help with water quality and provide some microorganisms for free range fry food-This of course can vary.....


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks Chocolate, quoting Oldfishlady is the best ideal


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What? In dont get it?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

joecool966 said:


> What free range? I just got some decapsulated bbs and i order some mircoworm. Hopefully they will eat the decap bbs sense I've been only feefing live food. I got one small snail which keep my tank super tank clean and i think he's looking for food now.


 I was answering there question of where Free range was stated.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Free range fry food-means- food that the system creates for the fry to eat at will..Free range feeding....


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Is a 10gal tank too small for breeding? My fry's is starting to get big and seem like a 10 gal might be a bit small.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Yes, the 10g is too small.. I use 10gs for my breeding tanks, then I have multiple 30gs for the grow out period (moved from the breeding tanks when they start to get a bit bigger in size).. then you will need lots of jars to isolate the males once they start fighting each other.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

would it be ok to have 2 10gal tank? i don't have anything bigger than 10gal tank and i don't want to buy a 30 gal it's too big and costly.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It's ok to use several smaller tanks as long as you keep up with the water changes - smaller= less fry and more frequent WC.


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

Myates said:


> Yes, the 10g is too small.. I use 10gs for my breeding tanks, then I have multiple 30gs for the grow out period


I'm confused by your statement here....so is 10g okay or no? I've used 10g for breeding no problems at all.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IMO/E-using 2-3 smaller tanks and separating the fry by size works well and even better in some cases-especially if you have a big range in fry size from the same spawn. And as Indjo posted...lots of water changes....


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Option said:


> I'm confused by your statement here....so is 10g okay or no? I've used 10g for breeding no problems at all.


Sorry for the confusion.. I was meaning that a single 10g is too small for a grow out (depending upon size of spawn), as the poster mentioned they are getting too big for the 10g. The others had answered the other question about multiple 10s.. I didn't want to answer as I was not completely sure of the answer for that, just new it would be a bit more work. 

But 10s are fine for breeding and raising the small fry for sure.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

Does anyone know the ratio of being a male or female from a spawn? This is probably a silly question.


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## Fabian (Dec 16, 2011)

joecool966 said:


> Does anyone know the ratio of being a male or female from a spawn? This is probably a silly question.


Depends.My first spawn,only 1 male came out.
2nd spawn,2 males and 5 females.
3rd spawn,2 males and 5 female.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It's not a silly question - lots of people have asked the same question.

There are a few beliefs/myths on this topic.
1. Age of breeders - more males if male is young (4 months), 
- more females if females is young (4 months).
2. Temperature - lower temps will produce more females and high temps more male.
Lowest advised temperature is 25C/77F – ideal 28C/82.4F – Highest is 31C/87.8F
3. The first three spawn (female) will produce more males, thus many breeders retire or cull their females after her third spawn.

I rely on belief 2 and 3. A first spawn during the hot season may produce 90% males (my highest). 2nd and 3rd spawn during hot season may produce 40-60% males. 4th spawn during hot season = below 30% male. A 4th or more spawn during the cold season may produce 90% females.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

O great i breed mine during the coldest season and it was hard keeping the temperature stable with my heater. It looks like i have a lot female because they are turning red and i have a red Cambodian female as the mother.


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## joecool966 (Dec 25, 2012)

I keep asking question here but i got 1 ghost shrimp would it be okay to put them with fry's? My fry's are about 6-7 weeks now they just look at him and mess with him once in awhile but the shrimp can't eat the fry's right?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Ghost shrimp can and sometimes will get smaller/weaker fry-but with your at 6-7 weeks-they should be big enough to get away from a ghost shrimp. 
The Red cherry shrimp IME are safe with eggs and new born Betta fry that are healthy, however, even the RCS will eat eggs that fall and weak/dead/dieing Betta fry.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Well theoretically it should be 50/50, but it can be anything!!!


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