# Fin rot or just a tear?



## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi there, I just moved into my own apartment and brought all my fish with me. 

I have a 5 gallon divided tank with 2 bettas. One is a CT and the other is a VT. My crowntail wasn't showing any signs of fin rot at all before we left. His fins were long and beautiful with no tears at all. 

Now that we're all settled in our apartment, I realized that he has a big ol rip down the middle of his tail and the fringies around the rip are fraying. He looks like someone pulled them off, but there there also looks like a needle prick hole around the area too. He doesn't sit still so I can, in no way, get a picture. He still flares, still swims EVERYWHERE, still is really active, loves to eat bloodworms from my hand, loves to beg, is still his usual self, he just has that tear and breakage. He also hasn't faded or anything. I'm not sure if it could be finrot or just a tear. Can the temperature affect their fins? I know they are sensitive to temperature. I accidentally left my second 100w heater at home so I won't be able to get that for another week. Their temp is staying within 75-77, I know, that is low, but I really can't do anything about it right this second. The water quality in my tank is:

pH: I think about a 7.8, maybe 8 (test kit colors all look the same) Is this too high?
Amm: .15ppm I know, it should be zero, and it was before we moved. I took the way more than half of their original water with me, so I only did about a 45% water change when we moved.
Nitrite: .15ppm Again, I know, it should be zero, I'm only wondering if this could cause one betta to have problems and not the other.
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

I think it might be my water quality. I will preform a water change today and see what happens. They have a little bit of everything in their tank so I'm assuming its trying to finish up the cycle and I interrupted it by moving and stressed Bleu out. 

I have a filter on the tank set to the lowest setting. The water I use IS city water but I add API's Stress Coat water conditioner. I add aquarium salt every once in a while. 

I would love it if someone could give me their advice and what they think could be going on.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

First off that tank is slightly overstocked some live plants will help with the Nitrate do you have any hiding spots if both have the damage fin rot salt bath will help if one it is nipping I recommend live food and decorations.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I really don't think the tank is overstocked, I do a water change every 4th day and test on those days as well. I have plenty of hiding places, no one nips, only one has a little damage, I feed them frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp, and I have decorations.

I don't want to do live plants because I use salt and the plants can't withstand the salt, also I don't want to have to deal with them if they don't have enough carbon dioxide, etc.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Neither one is showing signs of sickness at all, thats why I THINK it might be just a tear from one of the plants, so I took that one out, its a little bit prickly for their delicate fins. 

I did 40% water change, added a teaspoon of aquarium salt, dropped in 3 drops of melafix and we'll see what happens. 

And yes, I know melafix is too strong of a concentration for bettas, I don't use the same amount and I dilute it in separate water, then put it in there.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Put peace lilies in the filter you do not need to worry about CO2 if you want some advice Java fern can live in brackish and freshwater aquarium salt does not really seem like a problem to the plants seem like the Bettas are less tolerant of it with all those Nitrates way too high that will encourage algae Marimo like salt they like abit of aquarium salt.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Some good warm water should fix him right up  if there are any sign of black edges, you can give him a 10 day Aq salt treatment. goodluck!


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

A five gallon divided is not overstocked. -__-
It sounds like its just a split from over flaring and could possibly be stress. Just give him some TLC and he should be okay.  warm clean water works wonders.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> A five gallon divided is not overstocked. -__-
> It sounds like its just a split from over flaring and could possibly be stress. Just give him some TLC and he should be okay.  warm clean water works wonders.


Many consider 5 gallon the bare minimum like look at the water parameters.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

PETA considers 5gals a minimum, but overstocked doesn't refer to the amount of fish in a tank it refers to the bioload. 
Goblin is as happy as can be, and is in a 2.5 heated. A 5 gal divided gives each fish 2.5 gallons which is sufficient for bettas.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Totally not true
My betta flares all day  he's not stressed at all.
Every betta is unique. Some get depressed when their tank buddy is removed. Whilst others prefer to be by themselves


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

The reason why my water parameters are funky right now is because of the move. It's happening with my other tank as well. They were both perfectly cycled before and then I had to change a lot of water and now they're trying to get back to normal. You don't normally see all three, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all spike at the same time. So I think in a few days it should settle, with a few warm water changes, a little salt, and some sweet lovin' they should be ok, right? I'm gonna get my heater soon. I forgot it in my hermit crab tank. (I have the heater in a vase with a bubbler to keep the humidity up, thats beside the point) and I don't need the heater in there anymore, I meant to grab it. I guess I expected it to stay a little warmer up here in Maine for a little longer. I try not to use the heater in the summer because their water gets up to 85 and stays there for the most part. Right now I'm using my hood lamp as a heater, it heats the water to about 77 and once I get my Aqueon up here, I'll plop that in, and they'll be super toasty :]

ChoclateBetta, I don't know what you mean when you say my nitrates are too high, they are at a pretty good level right now...And the fact that I have nitrates indicates that my cycle is trying to fix itself. Why would I want a plant to get rid of my nitrates when they're only at 5ppm? I don't have any room in the filter to put a peace lily...


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> The reason why my water parameters are funky right now is because of the move. It's happening with my other tank as well. They were both perfectly cycled before and then I had to change a lot of water and now they're trying to get back to normal. You don't normally see all three, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate all spike at the same time. So I think in a few days it should settle, with a few warm water changes, a little salt, and some sweet lovin' they should be ok, right? I'm gonna get my heater soon. I forgot it in my hermit crab tank. (I have the heater in a vase with a bubbler to keep the humidity up, thats beside the point) and I don't need the heater in there anymore, I meant to grab it. I guess I expected it to stay a little warmer up here in Maine for a little longer. I try not to use the heater in the summer because their water gets up to 85 and stays there for the most part. Right now I'm using my hood lamp as a heater, it heats the water to about 77 and once I get my Aqueon up here, I'll plop that in, and they'll be super toasty :]
> 
> ChoclateBetta, I don't know what you mean when you say my nitrates are too high, they are at a pretty good level right now...And the fact that I have nitrates indicates that my cycle is trying to fix itself. Why would I want a plant to get rid of my nitrates when they're only at 5ppm? I don't have any room in the filter to put a peace lily...


5.0 is way to high you need to lower it.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm sorry......nitrates, last thing on the cycle, should always be present in a tank, 5.0 is pretty much the lowest you can have it and still have it be beneficial. They shouldn't go above 20ppm, thats when they are slightly harmful...I think you might be getting your nitrite mixed up with your nitrate 

VERY true about them getting depressed when their tank buddy is removed. When I separated them for the move, both were freaking out and looking for each other. When I put one in the tank, he was SEARCHING for the other. They do flare, but not all the time. Like, maybe once every couple of hours or something. They do like to look at each other. I feel like they have little competitions with each other, see who's prettier, etc  

ChoclateBetta, to each his own. I chose to put them in a 5 gallon so I could bring them to school with me. I would say that it is much better than the dinky cup they were in for a long time. It has a filter, I do partial water changes often. I don't really think that a 5 is too small when many people prefer to keep them in 1 gallons with no filter. 

I realize my parameters are not exceptional right now, but I know exactly why that is. It's not because it is overstocked, it's because I shocked the tank with the move and now it's all confused. I'm hoping it will level out with a few small water changes over the next week. I've had this tank set up for a while now, it's not new.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

yup nitrates can go from 20ppm to 40ppm before a water change is due


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

That's why water changes are done to get rid of nitrates  Which is what she does!


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm not trying to get rid of the nitrates...I want them in there to help break down the ammonia and the nitrites...Exactly what aokashi said, if I didn't do water changes, then I would get plants. But I really don't want to buy a bunch of live plants and have to deal with them too. I'd rather do small water changes. Thank you for that input though.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Did you just call me a he.....

Now I'm insulted....  

ChoclateBetta, this tank has been set up for months now, the original cycle has already happened. If you actually took time to read my posts, you'd see that the problem is that I just moved and had to add and take out a lot of the original water. THAT is why my parameters are funky. I think I've said that 3 times now... All three toxins are present in my tank. That only happens when the tank is shocked or when the tank is finishing up a cycle. Since my cycle happened months ago, the toxins are weird because I shocked the tank with a lot of new water. The bacteria and toxins from their original water was added so that I didn't have to do a fishless cycle when I moved. There wasn't any possible way for me to re-cycle an entire tank and move my fish and everything. So I did what I could.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm not going to argue about this anymore. The nitrates are not even a problem right now. I know what to do for him and I'll post about what happens in a week or so. I gotta go feed him, he's giving me those darn betta begging eyes...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Cycling is a process where bacteria takes ammonia, and turns it into nitrites.
then another type of bacteria turns nitrites into nitrates.
Nothing gets rid of nitrates so water changes are performed.

nitrates are no where as toxic as nitrite or ammonia. there may be up to 20-40 parts per million of nitrates in the water before a water change is performed.

OPs tank right now shows 5 (five ) ppm of nitrates which is very safe

OP's tank had already been cycled before the move, which means the bacteria is present. however she may have some die off in the move and hence the cycle is now not so stable. Her cycle is now re establishing and she is doing water changes, not so much to lower nitrates, but rather thw ammonia and nitrite levels.

I myself am a big plants fan, but many people keep fish using purely the nitrogen cycle and water changes to keep tank water safe  I'm not familiar with books on the matter. So I cant recommend you any but it's a fascinatig topic to look up if you have time


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> I'm not going to argue about this anymore. The nitrates are not even a problem right now. I know what to do for him and I'll post about what happens in a week or so. I gotta go feed him, he's giving me those darn betta begging eyes...


okies' happy feeding!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

aokashi said:


> I think you're thinking of ammonia or nitrites LOL


Ammonia is toxic in small amounts Nitrite is not as dangerous but still deadly Nitrate in large amounts is deadly.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Exactly, thank you. I really do know this stuff, this is what I go to school for. Marine biology is what I do best, and I have been keeping fish all my life. I have to explain the nitrogen cycle to someone on a daily basis, I work at Petco as an aquatics specialist and you'd be surprised how many people don't even know what nitrites are...

I might do plants in the near future, would prevent their tails from getting snagged. I also don't want to deal with algae and a lot of the times, plants from pet stores have freshwater snails and I DO NOT want to be killing snails everyday. For now I'll stick with my water changes, a little easier for a broke, busy college kid


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Let's just keep this plain friendly guys! ChoclateBetta, let it drop. The tank is not overstocked so just stop...
Scurrie, sorry for the... Confusion. If the fins keep getting smaller, then you should treat. But not yet, wait for it to happen. Just do a 50%-75% change and then the day after tomorrow you should do another one just to ensure no infection. Since the moving messed up your cycle, try to keep the ammonia and nitrite close to 0ppm as close as possible.


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## MollyJean (Dec 29, 2009)

There aren't that many 2.5 gallon tanks out there, so my own suggestion is anything over 3 gallons. It also gives a little wiggle room for gravel and plants. That being said, I have kept fish just as well in 1 gallon tanks, and so have many of the members of this forums. In the end, it's all up to you.

Fish do not get happy. They do not have the emotions that humans assign to them. They can be healthy, excited, agitated, hungry.. but happy and sad are human concepts. If a fish is healthy, active, responsive to stimuli, eating and pooping, this is as close to happy as a fish can get. We, as their caretakers, have to watch their water, make sure it is safe for them, and as long as it is, they will be healthy. You can keep a betta healthy in a 5 gallon tank, or a 1 gallon bowl, whatever you are comfortable with, as long as you give them the proper care.

Sometimes we need to keep our bellybuttons under our shirts, cause those things can be really ugly...


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thank you Lebron, I'll keep a close eye on him. I'm gonna do small water changes for the next couple of days and test to see whats going on. It should level out soon. Thank you for your help :]

Okay ChoclateBetta, I would appreciate it if you would stop adding your input. I never asked for you to insult me about my job. I am actually making a huge impact on the way my Petco treats their fish, but thank you. If you have never worked there or tried to change the way they treat fish, then I don't really appreciate you insulting me and my efforts. The whole REASON I got a job there was so that I could change the way their animals were treated.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Keep us updated on how well your fish is doing. We'd love pics!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> Keep us updated on how well your fish is doing. We'd love pics!


Don't you mean how bad. Sorry being a little harsh.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> Thank you Lebron, I'll keep a close eye on him. I'm gonna do small water changes for the next couple of days and test to see whats going on. It should level out soon. Thank you for your help :]


No problem, just watch out for anything serious and you're fine. I suggest you leave this thread, it's getting out of hand and you're doing just fine!


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Anyone interested in seeing pic's of the kids, here is a link to the post with pictures of them :] They are very happy little buggers:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=112269


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

they are such pretty fishes!


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay, I just removed about half of this thread. Hopefully it's okay now.

Please, _everyone_, stop arguing about tank size, and nitrates. 5ppm nitrates? A betta can't even feel that.

Thank you,
Olympia.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thank you Olympia!


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Aren't they good looking? Bleu had fin problems when I got him from petco, no one wanted him, he was there for so long, and look at how nice he is now!!!! I'm not normally a veiltail girl, but oh my goodness Calvin is just the sweetest little guy :] And he was at the store for months too, now they're my buds :] 


OK! I got him to sit still, mesmerized him with my finger, they are are little fuzzy, but I think you'll be able to see them.

I circled the spots where it is.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s720x720/281834_4358850046681_1961248146_n.jpg
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/538652_4358851926728_936393740_n.jpg

He has too many fringy fins, he looks like a porcupine.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Do you have hard water? I think fins split more often in hard water/high pH. If anything, they grow back a lot more slowly.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Thankyou Olympia XD
@ scurrie- your babies are lovely XD


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Those looks like splits. Yeah just some warm water and TLC will help heal that.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I JUST moved here, so I haven't been able to test the actual water yet, my water at home wasn't hard or anything, the pH was good at home. When I tested the TANK pH today, it was around 8, which I feel is too high. I might pick up a gallon or two of spring water, just to make sure. I'm also going to do a test on the actual tap water to see what the pH is coming straight out of there, could be because it is city water.
He does have one really clear split, it was just the little chunks that fell off that concerned me. It looks like someone pulled a few of the fringes off. (I call them fringes, because I have no idea what they're actually called ) 

I really need to get my heater from home because I can't leave their hood light on all the time to heat the water  It's surprising how well it works....

I'll go do a test on my tap water, see whats going on there.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Nice job on your tank...looks great, however, the plastic plants might cause some fin issue-but I am sure you are already aware of that.

Your 5gal filtered and divided tank for 2 adult Long fin male Bettas is fine for long term keeping-provided that you maintain water quality-but that is with any size tank...again you already know this.....

Your nitrate at 5ppm is fine and expected with an established nitrogen cycle-As others have posted and what you already know...Nitrate is what we use to tell us cycling stages and completeness.
Ideally we want to keep the nitrate under 20ppm, however, 40-60ppm and even higher is tolerated-Its that sudden changes in nitrate that can sometimes shock the immune compromised fish that has been living in high nitrate water since long term high nitrate compromises immunity and can stunt growth. This is where the myth "Water change killed my fish" and "The fish store sold me sick fish" come from....Again you already know this.....

Going back to the isuuse-the CT tattered fins-this most likely was caused by either hard water or the plastic plants or the water movement and/or a combination of all of it. Since his is otherwise acting his normal self-it might be something you have to live with especially if it is related to hard water unless you can use re-mineralized R/O water to get the KH/GH down-You might want to go ahead and remove the plastic plants and if the overflow is on his side-change it so the intake is on his side. I would also increase water changes to 50% daily for a few days-then get on a regular schedule of 50% weekly with vacuum once the nitrogen cycle has established. Adding a second 50% water only won't hurt and adding live plants is always good as long as you have the proper light to support plant growth so they don't become part of the problems regarding water quality.
Adding a tannin source can also be helpful as well as proper nutrition.

A lot of water quality issues often stem from poor quality foods-as well as overall health and longevity-By supporting the immune response with proper nutrition, water quality and water temp the Betta can take care of itself in a sense.....

Have you tested the source water-ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH-do you have KH/GH by chance.....

I would stop using the salt-especially in a non-therapeutic dose-its not needed and you risk creating resistance issue and kidney damage.
Its a great product to use for the right reason, dosage and duration in a QT.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

The other thing I like to use as a test is my glass catfish. I have glass cats in a tropical tank, they're in the same water, and they are REALLY sensitive to things like hard water and pH, so I feel like if it was that, they'd be showing signs of it as well, but they're perfectly fine so far.


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> The other thing I like to use as a test is my glass catfish. I have glass cats in a tropical tank, they're in the same water, and they are REALLY sensitive to things like hard water and pH, so I feel like if it was that, they'd be showing signs of it as well, but they're perfectly fine so far.


Also thank you for your work.

I live near ODU and one of my friends worked I the Marine Biology dept for 7 years.

Water is so important to all living things!


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> I JUST moved here, so I haven't been able to test the actual water yet, my water at home wasn't hard or anything, the pH was good at home. When I tested the TANK pH today, it was around 8, which I feel is too high. I might pick up a gallon or two of spring water, just to make sure. I'm also going to do a test on the actual tap water to see what the pH is coming straight out of there, could be because it is city water.
> He does have one really clear split, it was just the little chunks that fell off that concerned me. It looks like someone pulled a few of the fringes off. (I call them fringes, because I have no idea what they're actually called )
> 
> I really need to get my heater from home because I can't leave their hood light on all the time to heat the water  It's surprising how well it works....
> ...


Would you like some Indian Almond Leaf?

I have a bunch. Just PM me.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Now THAT was a really helpful post :] Thank you. I already took out the prickly plastic plants, the others don't have rough edges or anything he could do damage on. The filter is not on his side, its on the Calvin's side, its on the lowest setting. I might do real plants, I just need to get paid first and do a little research on how to maintain them, because I don't want to jump into it and cause issues in my tank. The hood doesn't allow me to have the intake and outtake on opposite sides, Calvin is good with the filter because he doesn't have as many fins as Bleu, I had Bleu on the filter side at one point, and within 10 minutes he was stuck to it, even on the lowest setting. I've never seen Calvin struggle or get stuck ever. So thats not an option. I'll continue to do the water changes and test. I feed them high quality frozen blood worms, and sometimes they get the frozen brine shrimp/spirulina/bloodworms mix. I'll stop using salt, I wasn't using to much, but you are right, don't want resistance issues. As for the source water, I just tested it, pH is a 7.6 and zero on everything else. I don't have KH/GH test kit, but I'm sure I could bring my water to a place that tests it and get it tested. I think I'll stick to bottled for now, just to be on the safe side. Or I could just bring buckets from home.


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> Now THAT was a really helpful post :]


true that! OFL = genius!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I wouldn't use just bottled water-but you could do a 50/50 mix with your tap/bottle water along with the dechlorinater and be fine.
Your pH is fine and best not to try and change this with chemicals- Its the Kh/GH is what will tell you if you have hard or soft water not the pH anyway...

Sometimes the long fin males-especially the CT and VT can have issue with use of their fins to swim and with water movement-Somewhat like the flag in the wind effect and it has nothing to do with water quality, however, maintaining water quality, nutrition and temp will help prevent secondary infections and support a strong immune response.
Not all Long fin males have these issue-a lot is related to genetics....

I would add a good quality pellet food to their diet along with your current foods and if you have access to live mosquito larva-offer several rinsed for one meal a day to boost protein intake.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I hate putting chemicals in my tank, it ruins all the bacteria thats been growing! So I avoid anything with chemicals. I'll switch out a gallon of tank water for bottled with a little stress coat tomorrow. 
Thats why I'm asking my landlord if she knows if we have hard or soft water, I don't have a kit for that. I have a good quality flake that I feed them a couple of times a week. I try to switch it up every 2 days. I don't have access to mosquito larvae. Do I need pellet or is the flake ok?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Never mind with a few water changes they will live long life.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

scurrie11 said:


> I hate putting chemicals in my tank, it ruins all the bacteria thats been growing! So I avoid anything with chemicals. I'll switch out a gallon of tank water for bottled with a little stress coat tomorrow.
> Thats why I'm asking my landlord if she knows if we have hard or soft water, I don't have a kit for that. I have a good quality flake that I feed them a couple of times a week. I try to switch it up every 2 days. I don't have access to mosquito larvae. Do I need pellet or is the flake ok?


Agreed like anti algae would kill my Marimo. But you can give fish a little drinking but long term it does not have the proper minerals.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

scurrie11 said:


> I hate putting chemicals in my tank, it ruins all the bacteria thats been growing! So I avoid anything with chemicals. I'll switch out a gallon of tank water for bottled with a little stress coat tomorrow.
> Thats why I'm asking my landlord if she knows if we have hard or soft water, I don't have a kit for that. I have a good quality flake that I feed them a couple of times a week. I try to switch it up every 2 days. I don't have access to mosquito larvae. Do I need pellet or is the flake ok?


Good quality flakes are fine-the more varied the diet the better.....

The less chemicals the better........ IMO/E the only chemical additive you need is a good quality dechlorinater that covers both chlorine and chloramines......

Also, check with the landlord if they have a water softening unit hooked up on the water and if so, what kind it is and if you can bypass it to collect water to use for the fish.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I will when I see her next :] Thank you for your help!


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Alright, not to bring up this post again. 

But now I'm even more alarmed, because Bleu's has gotten a little worse since the water change and now Calvin has a rip in his tail as well... It's not as clean as Bleu's, but it's a big ol rip in his tail..


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

have they been flaring at each other? :O Kuro's tail did that when he was under nourished. I have ard water, so I'm not sure if that's it. because these days Kuro flares all the time and he doesn't get a rip anymore


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

They don't flare that much, maybe like, 2-3 times a day, and only for a couple of seconds. Never super aggressively too, just kinda, gill flap things out for a second then done. Sometimes its a little longer. But I didn't notice them doing it yesterday, and I was with them the majority of the day...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Any change in behavior or eating habits....


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Oh no! Still the same ol' crazy bettas; flaring at me when I walk by because they know I mean food, biting me when I stick my hand in to fix their tank, begging, tail wagging, sitting in the corner by the hood where the food comes in, inhaling their food....

It's crazy how much bettas are like dogs...

I'm about to test their water and do a change if need be.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

With the long fin males-sometimes due to genetic, age, health history, past care history and nutrition-they can have weak fins in general and any small thing in the tank itself, water movement even on low setting and baffled and even the space itself can be the cause of fin damage.

Since this is a domesticated or man made fish, those abnormally long heavy-often delicate fins we created- can be damaged from just swimming or use- especially with any water movement no matter how gentle. While the tattered fins are just a cosmetic issues and as long as steps are taken to prevent a secondary infection from the break in tissue-sometimes it is something we have to live with when we want to keep them in larger decorated tanks.

Due to the delicate fins _and not all long fin males have these issues_-genetics play a big role along with care and nutrition-Sometimes we have to keep them in small bare containers without any water movement to maintain the long flowing intact fins.

With that said-we can take some step to try and strengthen the fins by use of tannins, proper nutrition and maintaining water quality. Its a balance-especially with water changes since too many can be as bad as not enough. Too many 100% can stress them and this alone can be an issue for overall health. Removal of both the good and bad pathogens and antibody development that can compromise the immune response that leads to imbalance. Its hard to support life in too clean and sterile conditions. I have found with this species using a more holistic approach to work best in maintaining the abnormally Long heavy, delicate fins....


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Alright! Water looks betta already today (see what I did there ;])

I have little if any ammonia, it looks like it could be MAYBE .02 - .05, its barely showing up on my kit. No nitrites today and 5ppm of nitrates. Water is about 77 degrees, which is a decent job being done by my hood lamp. I'm not going to touch them today, keep an eye on them until tomorrow then see whats going on tomorrow.

Also, I just remember I have store use hardness, alkalinity, pH, chlorine, etc strips at my work that I can double check everything with on Friday. Should be good! Thanks for the advice!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

yay  need new pics when those tails heal!


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

Ok...FREAKIEST THING.

I was looking them over today, just trying to see if they had both gotten worse.


There is nothing wrong with either one of them. All their rips are completely healed over. Bleu has a tiny bit of one of his fringie things still missing, but other than that, the huge splits, are gone...completely gone...

I added a few drops of melafix in there a few days ago, I wonder if thats what did it....


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lol, its normal. bettas heal fast in good environments.
its been 3 days since your first post right? Kuro usually heals in 4 days XD


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

I noticed it last night, but was too tired to post about it! It's ridiculous how fast he healed!!!!!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

heeheehee I know right.
The first time I freak about a pin hole, it vanished the next couple of hours. I spent sooo long scrutinizing my fish for that hole, but it was no where to be seen...
I was like... "are you trolling me?!"


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Deez fishus be trollin'.


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Hahaha laughing with you and glad they're better!


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> PETA considers 5gals a minimum


Last time I looked, they said 10 gallon was the minimum for a betta but we are not supposed to have fish as all cause its like cruel and inhumane. :roll:



> here is nothing wrong with either one of them. All their rips are completely healed over. Bleu has a tiny bit of one of his fringie things still missing, but other than that, the huge splits, are gone...completely gone...


I notice that if I use stress coat and put in some krodon fish protector, any nips or rips heal in a few hours. Its amazing!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Keep up with the water changes make sure they stay healthy.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> Deez fishus be trollin'.


I am not a troll. My second guppy dead now in his 10 gallon tank my Betta is in, the guppy would disappear in then appear.


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## scurrie11 (Aug 28, 2012)

She wasn't talking about you ChoclateBetta :] She was talking about my crazy fish that are confusing me with their tails and fins being torn apart one day then fine the next. :]


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