# Fancy Goldfish questions: substrate? best food?



## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

So, long story short my parents went to our LFS today. I wasn't feeling well and asked that if they had gotten Dragon Stones in today to pick one up for me. Later I get a call from my mom, saying that she knows I'll want to say no but she knows I want one. I was confused, asking what. She then said there was 3 baby Ranchus that just came in, still in the shipment bag for super cheap. She described them to me and I told her to pick the calico one (I have been raving about Calico Ranchus for the longest time now, but I didn't want a full-grown one). Was setting up my spare 10 gallon, they come home with all 3 babies. _WHYYY_ :evil::blueworry: I know a 10 gallon is too small for one, but _3_? I was upset, especially since I was expected to pay triple the price I agreed on. Ugh, something about how my dad thought the grey one's scales looked interesting in the light and how mine would be sad without friends and how great a deal he got on them :roll: The other 2 aren't even calicos. Good gosh, can you say impulse buyers? They also bought a $130 discus that looks exactly like one they already have, and they're hella overstocking their 60 gallon.

/endrant

Anyway, I think Tomorrow I'm going to go to Lowes to pick up a 20 gallon tub for now, since they're so cheap. My sister took one of the babies, and I plan to rehome the other eventually. They haven't even started to grow their Wens yet so they're very young. 

I know gravel substrate is bad since they can eat it and it will cause blockages. I don't really want to do an extraction on a fish. Is sand okay? Or should I just leave it bare-bottom?

Also food, Is there any recommended brands? I know they're omnivores and like a varied diet so I assume I would feed them a pellet or wafer-based food along with veggies? 

Any suggestions would be wonderful :-? Wasn't exactly prepared.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I have gravel, but if you go to a landscaping store you could get a bunch of large River Rock or tumbled quartz. I've raised all 5 of my goldfish from babies if he's really small use a mid protein flake food ,high protein foods give them compactation and blockages. They also sell small pellets but if he's really small he wouldn't be able to eat them. I've never been able to keep live plants with mine but driftwood and large rocks like they use for cichlids look nice. I suggest no smaller than 20g for him they get HUGE if you keep them right. And go for a 40/60 filter, it really helps I have two on my 50g tank. ( Mine are going to be moving up to a 90 when we buy our own home) my largest Goldy is about 9 inches I bought him at 2 inches. When they get bigger I feed live foods, like mealworms and red earthworms once in awhile and they LOVE boiled shelled peas! If you have any specific questions go ahead and ask ^^


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Crash said:


> So, long story short my parents went to our LFS today. I wasn't feeling well and asked that if they had gotten Dragon Stones in today to pick one up for me. Later I get a call from my mom, saying that she knows I'll want to say no but she knows I want one. I was confused, asking what. She then said there was 3 baby Ranchus that just came in, still in the shipment bag for super cheap. She described them to me and I told her to pick the calico one (I have been raving about Calico Ranchus for the longest time now, but I didn't want a full-grown one). Was setting up my spare 10 gallon, they come home with all 3 babies. _WHYYY_ :evil::blueworry: I know a 10 gallon is too small for one, but _3_? I was upset, especially since I was expected to pay triple the price I agreed on. Ugh, something about how my dad thought the grey one's scales looked interesting in the light and how mine would be sad without friends and how great a deal he got on them :roll: The other 2 aren't even calicos. Good gosh, can you say impulse buyers? They also bought a $130 discus that looks exactly like one they already have, and they're hella overstocking their 60 gallon.
> 
> /endrant
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have your hands full! Although I would be pretty happy if my parents brought home 3 goldies for me XD

As for substrate, since they are growing, I would definitely leave it bare bottom. They are growing, so you need less hassle to deal with, and sand/gravel just traps debris, and poop. Bare bottom is so much easier to keep clean.

As for food I've always had luck with Hikari, and I also like to feed Soylent Green from Repashy. I would stay away from cheap pellets, and such because most of it will just go to waste since the goldies won't process most of it.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

blueridge said:


> Sounds like you have your hands full! Although I would be pretty happy if my parents brought home 3 goldies for me XD
> 
> As for substrate, since they are growing, I would definitely leave it bare bottom. They are growing, so you need less hassle to deal with, and sand/gravel just traps debris, and poop. Bare bottom is so much easier to keep clean.
> 
> As for food I've always had luck with Hikari, and I also like to feed Soylent Green from Repashy. I would stay away from cheap pellets, and such because most of it will just go to waste since the goldies won't process most of it.


It might be easier to keep clean but without gravel your cycle is prone to crashing (especially when you change the filter media)and you have to do more water changes. Goldfish are the biggest waste makers in the common fish world, meaning tons of ammonia without the extra good bacteria your setting yourself up for problems.. substrate and a gravel vac are just fine, I've never any of my goldfish swallow gravel by the way. Though they love to pick through it to see if they can find food. It is up to you but if had some real heartache trying bare bottom


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

I put in some sand from one of my betta tanks, didn't think of cycling the tank for some reason :| shame shame on me!

Only problem is getting a filter to the tank! I have the tub in the corner of my room with no outlets, ugh. They sure are happier with the extra space though, it's a solid blue so they can't see the outside. I'm sure it makes them feel more secure. Going to have to run an extension cord I guess :lol: 

About to order a bag of Hikari Lionhead, can't decide on the bigger or smaller bag though. I would assume the bigger is better to have since they eat so much?


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

MysticSky22301 said:


> It might be easier to keep clean but without gravel your cycle is prone to crashing (especially when you change the filter media)and you have to do more water changes. Goldfish are the biggest waste makers in the common fish world, meaning tons of ammonia without the extra good bacteria your setting yourself up for problems.. substrate and a gravel vac are just fine, I've never any of my goldfish swallow gravel by the way. Though they love to pick through it to see if they can find food. It is up to you but if had some real heartache trying bare bottom


I actually disagree. You do not need gravel to keep a cycle going. If you are running a proper filtration system, you should be using media such as sponges, and other bio material, such as bio-balls, which should never be replaced since they hold the essential bacteria. This should be substantial to keeping plenty of bacteria, as a colony grows to meet the demands of fish. Since goldfish produce so much waste it is essential to do large frequent water changes mainly because the poop does not get broken down, plus growing fish need cleaner water.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

The more protein the better. The first year is when they grow the most, which is what I recall. Feeding them a varied diet is great too. In order to avoid bloating/swim bladder issues, make sure you get the sinking pellets, if you get the floating pellets, make sure to soak them, so they will sink.  Keep us updated! Do we get to see photos too? ;-)


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

Some times canisters aren't easily accessible, or in price range. I guess it comes down to money and availability, on top of personal preference


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

MysticSky22301 said:


> Some times canisters aren't easily accessible, or in price range. I guess it comes down to money and availability, on top of personal preference


I totally agree. You would be amazed at how much stuff, though, that you can get in a HOB. Plus running a sponge filter never hurts either.


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

BlueInkFish said:


> The more protein the better. The first year is when they grow the most, which is what I recall. Feeding them a varied diet is great too. In order to avoid bloating/swim bladder issues, make sure you get the sinking pellets, if you get the floating pellets, make sure to soak them, so they will sink. Keep us updated! Do we get to see photos too?


I've already ordered some Hikari Lionhead sinking pellets, and I'm soon going to order some Saki Hikari pellets as well  Right now I'm feeding them cooked vegetables until the food comes in next week.

Here's some horrid pictures of them :lol:



I really, really need a new camera lol. As always ignore the dates, sware I'm not from the future :shock: The third baby is with my sister, I gave her my 10 gallon until she can get something bigger since she's so stingy with money. But she has time, they're just itty bitty little fishies for now! If he starts to look depressed I'll make her put him in the tub with his siblings until he grows a bit.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

Awww I love goldfish I just haven't had any of these, mine are so big! They could probably eat yours lol


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Cute!


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

Alright guys! Filter questions  I have them in a 20 gallon tub, which means an HOB wouldn't fit on the side, but I'm sure I can get a little crafty and get one to work. Right now I have a 10-20i Whisper HOB I'm not using, would that be good for now or should I go get a large size? I assume an HOB would work much better compared to a large sponge filter (my LFS sells massive SFs, up to 100+ gallons). I would love to get a canister as that would take up the least amount of room for the fish and clean the water the most, but that would be a more expensive investment for a later date  Perhaps when they grow to a larger size.

Thanks again guys! You've been very helpful


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Crash said:


> Alright guys! Filter questions  I have them in a 20 gallon tub, which means an HOB wouldn't fit on the side, but I'm sure I can get a little crafty and get one to work. Right now I have a 10-20i Whisper HOB I'm not using, would that be good for now or should I go get a large size? I assume an HOB would work much better compared to a large sponge filter (my LFS sells massive SFs, up to 100+ gallons). I would love to get a canister as that would take up the least amount of room for the fish and clean the water the most, but that would be a more expensive investment for a later date  Perhaps when they grow to a larger size.
> 
> Thanks again guys! You've been very helpful


I think it tends on how many water changes a week you plan on doing. Since they are growing fry you are definitely going to have to do at least 1, 90% per week, if not more. Do you know how many gph the Whisper is? You are going to need a filter that at least does 200 gph or more, to sustain the goldies needs. If you do decide to use a sponge filter it needs to be already well seeded with bacteria, and you are doing to have to do more water changes, since they are growing. 

I hope this helps you in deciding on what you want to do! :wink3:


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I always double gph of the tank I'm running my 50g has two 40/60 filters running on it


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

For goldies you want at least 10x the GPH, so if you've got a 20 gallon then you want a 200 GPH filter, or two 100 GPH. I believe it increases with each goldfish but I'm not as versed in filters for goldies as my best friend is.

For the first year of their life, you want a decently 40-50% protein pellet along with a good varied diet of vegetables and seaweed. Pellets should be fed at least once daily and then veggies for the other meal. After their first year you can slow down to a regular goldfish pellet that has less protein in it. That's when you'll start to run into digestive issues if they have too much protein. Pea's is always a good idea for a near daily diet as it fiber. Goldfish don't have stomachs like typical fish but different parts of their digestive tract does function as a stomach so they literally eat and then poop it out a few minutes later after it goes through. This is why goldfish need to graze or can graze often instead of getting set meals. This is also why they tend to poop much more often than a fish with a stomach. There's more to it than just that of course, fish size is a huge role in how much they defecate as well. So yes, at least two water changes in the week to start off on both to help reduce waste and to help your cycle and keeping the ammonia at bay so it doesn't hurt them.
@MysticSky22301 gravel does hold bacteria in it but it's not where bacteria congregate the most. Most of the good bacteria is held within the filter as they need fast moving and high oxygen water to survive. Once the cycle is established, they will start moving out into the other parts of the tank to cover all surfaces. Even if one was to take out the gravel after the tank is established, there is enough bacteria everywhere (provided the tank isn't over stocked and the filter is still going well) to prevent a crash from happening.

And last thing, OP get a bubble wand or some sort of bubbler with a good powered air pump. Goldfish need lots of oxygen to survive, they will die without it. The more goldfish you have, the more oxygen you need so pump that bad boy with all the oxygen you can muster!


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

Anybody have any recommendations for fast-growing stem plants the goldies can snack on?

I've had duckweed in there for a little over a week, and they come up and steal a few whenever they get hungry in between feedings. I also have some Green Temple but they don't seem to be interested in it. 

*Also an update!* They're much more lively now and seem to be getting used to me hanging around. Still a bit unsure of my hand, but I make sure they see where the food is coming from  My sister's Ranchu baby is much more accepting, came right up to eat out of my hand! But he is in a glass tank while mine are in a non-seethrough tub so that could have something to do with it. After having them on Hikari Lionhead pellets for a week, the brown wild-colored Ranchu seems to be color changing! He is now gaining a white underbelly and a bit of white on his face with some orange patches coming in. I'm hoping he came from the same spawn as my calico and will change into a more pleasing color. I also noticed one of his pectorals is _much_ smaller than the other, almost to the point where I thought he didn't have one! He still gets around just as well as my Calico so I'm not too worried. No wen growth on any of the babies yet, but they're still very small so I'm going to assume that's normal. I have green bag (balance) Saki Hikari pellets in the mail, decided against the purple bag as it is more color-enhancing and I don't want the white on my Calico to fade out. Hikari Lionhead already has color enhancers in it anyway.

Thanks for all the help guys! I love my little babies and I'm considering keeping both my Calico and Brownie (that is, if he stays brown). They seem to have a strong attachment to each other and I would hate to separate them.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Anacharis is a big favorite. Water wisteria sometimes is good. My friend's goldies won't eat Amazon Swords, Valisneria, anubias, or java fern. They will eat duckweed lovingly (I bring over some of mine to help feed them haha) and the roots off Dwarf Water Lettuce for sure.


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Sounds like they are doing great! Would love to see more pictures of them too :wink:

I don't normally keep a lot of plants with my guys because they love snacking on a lot of things, but they definitely love water hyacinth.


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## Nova betta (Dec 5, 2014)

yup mine LOVE anacharis! Mine seem very picky compared to other goldies though. They won't touch duckweed and other floaters. Only anacharis.

I feed hikari pellets and repashy gel food and lots of spinach and peas!. If it's possible I would actually recommend getting a 29 gallon instead of a 20 gallon. In my experience bigger is always better.
I have my 2 fancy goldfish in a 75 gallon. I could add more but I feel like it would look to crowded. Besides my goldfish are 9-10 inches!


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