# Best friends with a Betta Splendens in 17g tank



## mccabe2001 (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi All, New here today as i'm in the final throws of 'fishless cycling' my new 64li (17g) tank. 

Will be looking to move my 6 Glowlight Tetras over to their new home in a month or so. But my wife is so keen to put a betta (red or blue) in the tank in a few months (once all settled), I'm a little more reluctant however, they look beautiful but I believe a betta will leave me a little restricted with other fishys later. 

I'm sure this one's been discussed dozens of times, but If I did have a single male betta with my 6 Glowlights, what else could I or shouldn't I put in the 17g tank ?? 

I've had some very good advise from a couple of local fish stores, but many contridict each other when it comes to adding the betta. 

Any advise and fish stocks, types and numbers would all be very welcome, especially from keepers rather than those just trying to sell them to me ;-)

Thanks John


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

I'm definitely no expert on stocking, but I don't think Glowlights can be in with a betta. I'm not sure though...

No sharks, no Chinese Algae Eaters... Probably nothing marked as aggressive. Most types of shrimp and corydoras are okay with a betta.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Glolights should be fine. They are basically neon tetras, which many people keep with bettas successfully. However, I would up the school to 8, as the more tetras you have, the less likely they are to nip. 

I would also get a school of bottom dwellers (6 or so) of cories or kuhli loaches.  This will give you activity on all levels of the tank.


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## mccabe2001 (Feb 20, 2012)

I like the idea of the cories, but was looking to home a Golden Nugget Plec around the bottom too.

Would they still all get on ?


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## LittleBeta (Feb 21, 2012)

I know neon tetras and guppies can both go with Bettas, I'm not sure if they would go with the glow fish though.


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## mccabe2001 (Feb 20, 2012)

I had a look at some cories at the local fish store earlier this evening and they look good, also some lemon tetras. But I didn't think guppies where good partners for a betta as they look too flash and may be seen as a rival and equally neons as they seem too fast and nippy ? I know many fish stores do put bettas in with neons as if to prove a point, but i also get the impression neons are fine if they are in a large enough school and have better fun than chasing a bettas fancy tail ?


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## LittleBeta (Feb 21, 2012)

Tetras and Guppies do perfictly fine with Bettas. I have then together right now in one tank. And no, the tetras don't like to chase the Bettas, if there in a group and a big emough tank they will mostly stay away from the Betta.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

You might be getting a lit overstocked: 1 betta, 6-8 Glowlights, cories... + maybe a Plec... And definitely no GloFish.

 Sorry, again no expert here.


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## daniomania (Feb 12, 2012)

A betta............. i dont think they will do well with a lot of fish. i would get a small 2 g tank for the betta so your other fish ca nrest in comfort. the betta(mine at least) never leaves my tetras alone so i split them up....betta personalities though!
good luck!


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It is entirely dependent on the betta's personality as to whether he gets on with the other fish or not. Working on your average, relatively-docile-but-not-tolerant-of-everything betta, I would not recommend guppies. Sometimes it works, but you are right - sometimes the tails are just asking for trouble. Personally, I wouldn't risk it. 

How big do the Golden Nuggets get? I would choose between either the pleco OR the cories, not both. Lemon tetras are also nice, but those + the glowlights would be your maximum. You have room for a betta + two schools (either tetras or bottom feeders or both), or a betta + a school (be it cories of tetras) + a pleco. Anything else would really be pushing it. 

That said, have you considered Endlers? They are a safer bet than guppies.


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

fishman12 said:


> You might be getting a lit overstocked: 1 betta, 6-8 Glowlights, cories... + maybe a Plec... And definitely no GloFish.
> 
> Sorry, again no expert here.


That's not actually accurate, completely. If your school of zebras/glofish is sufficient, the glofish will usually leave the betta alone. I've had a school of zebra danios/glofish since I got my first female with no problems. I wouldn't put anything less than a sufficent school (5+) of zebras/glofish with any betta, which is when they will get nippy.

A friend has a school of zebras also with a big male betta with long fins. No nipping problems either. 

Ultimately, i'm sure sometimes it can be a problem, but it can work too.


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## CarmanDirda (Feb 20, 2012)

No barbs or cichlids (or other well known fin-nippers), or aggression tagged fish. And probably not a good idea to put fish similiar to bettas like gouramis, or any fish bigger than them unless you're sure they're docile, because the betta will become the victim.

Just find some docile, pretty fish you like that aren't aggressive and preferabley not long-finned (for their body size). I did have bettas with some lyretail fish and other long-finned fish of their size, though.

Not all bettas are really aggressive, except to maybe other bettas. You can introduce fish with dividers or closely monitor them when adding fish. Monitoring is always a must for any introduction of animals, because they're unpredictable.

Also, make sure to have a backup plan for any fish you get. As perfect as they may sound, some fish may have a certain temperment that doesn't allow them to be with other fish - even if it goes against standards for the species.


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## CarmanDirda (Feb 20, 2012)

Also, be sure to keep schooling fish in _schools_. It'll reduce their aggression and anxiety, and if they stick together, bettas won't be so quick to go after them, either.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

mzxeternal said:


> That's not actually accurate, completely. If your school of zebras/glofish is sufficient, the glofish will usually leave the betta alone. I've had a school of zebra danios/glofish since I got my first female with no problems. I wouldn't put anything less than a sufficent school (5+) of zebras/glofish with any betta, which is when they will get nippy.
> 
> A friend has a school of zebras also with a big male betta with long fins. No nipping problems either.
> 
> Ultimately, i'm sure sometimes it can be a problem, but it can work too.


Yes, as I said no expert here.

Generally I would stay away from brightly colored fish as the male might see this as being a betta male and attack.


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

You could do guppy females....but male guppy's color is a sure fire way to make a male Betta mad. A Gold Nugget Pleco is a No-No, there are a couple of different species, ranging in size from 6-14 inches long. None of them will fit in that size tank. I would do what Bomb said and I for a school of bottom dwellers, but that's just me.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

mzxeternal said:


> That's not actually accurate, completely. If your school of zebras/glofish is sufficient, the glofish will usually leave the betta alone. I've had a school of zebra danios/glofish since I got my first female with no problems. I wouldn't put anything less than a sufficent school (5+) of zebras/glofish with any betta, which is when they will get nippy.
> 
> A friend has a school of zebras also with a big male betta with long fins. No nipping problems either.
> 
> Ultimately, i'm sure sometimes it can be a problem, but it can work too.


I think they point with no glofish is that there's already several tetras in there, plus a betta, and the glofish require a lot of room.. :s


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

Olympia said:


> I think they point with no glofish is that there's already several tetras in there, plus a betta, and the glofish require a lot of room.. :s


I have a 14 gal, with a school of 5 Glofish, 6 Neon Tetras, 3 female bettas, 10 cherry shrimp, 4 otos and an apple snail. Except for having to significantly increase my filtering capacity (via 2 Aqueon Quietflow 10s), the stocking capacity is at 100% on the nose, assuming adult sizes (which they aren't yet, and I will be upgrading to a 20 gallon in the next month).

All my fish are stress free and content, and I have no water quality problems. A 17 gallon will be more than sufficient. 

The reason it works, is the Zebras(Glofish) generally congregate towards the top end of the tank, the neons from middle to low, the otos on the bottom (or eating from the glass) and the bettas travel all over.

My setup on AqAdvisor's calculator


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

mzxeternal said:


> I have a 14 gal, with a school of 5 Glofish, 6 Neon Tetras, 3 female bettas, 10 cherry shrimp, 4 otos and an apple snail. Except for having to significantly increase my filtering capacity (via 2 Aqueon Quietflow 10s), the stocking capacity is at 100% on the nose, assuming adult sizes (which they aren't yet, and I will be upgrading to a 20 gallon in the next month).
> 
> All my fish are stress free and content, and I have no water quality problems. A 17 gallon will be more than sufficient.
> 
> ...


Female bettas need to be in groups of at least 5 to be stable. Glofish need to be in a 20 Gallon+, I think your overstocked for a 14g. :/ Everyone maybe getting along now, but your in for problems if you don't bump up the number of females in there.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

How about a betta sorority? Females can be almost as colourful as males, and are sometimes less aggressive, it's said (I don't know by experience). 

Not sure what could be kept with them, though, aside from corys.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

AqAdvisor isn't really something to put all your trust in, it doesn't take many things into account.. I think even a 20gal might be too small for all those fish. You definitely need at least 5 female betta and you have to put a lot of time into creating a suitable heavily planted tank to keep a sorority going..


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

MaisyDawgThirteen said:


> Female bettas need to be in groups of at least 5 to be stable. Glofish need to be in a 20 Gallon+, I think your overstocked for a 14g. :/ Everyone maybe getting along now, but your in for problems if you don't bump up the number of females in there.


Actually, 5 is a common belief, but not necessarily required. As long as there are more than 2, it can work (as it has in my case, successfully  ) 

The Aqadvisor calculator is actually somewhat conservative on stocking levels, my stocking level is fine (but I wouldn't add anything else at this point).

My fish aren't stressed and the glofish have plenty of room to swim.

And as I said previously, I will be upgrading to a 20 gallon later this month. :-D


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

mzxeternal said:


> Actually, 5 is a common belief, but not necessarily required. As long as there are more than 2, it can work (as it has in my case, successfully  )
> 
> The Aqadvisor calculator is actually somewhat conservative on stocking levels, my stocking level is fine (but I wouldn't add anything else at this point).
> 
> ...


It actually is required. You can do 4, but 5 is much much better. I'/d upgrade too a 30g and get a few more girlies if i were you. :-D

How long have you had them together? It can sometimes take a while for agression to come out.

I don't know what to think about aqadvisor. I've told by some people it's great, and others it's terrible! :-?


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

Sorry OP! Me and mzxeternal kinda hijacked your thread. lol


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

MaisyDawgThirteen said:


> It actually is required. You can do 4, but 5 is much much better. I'/d upgrade too a 30g and get a few more girlies if i were you. :-D
> 
> How long have you had them together? It can sometimes take a while for agression to come out.
> 
> I don't know what to think about aqadvisor. I've told by some people it's great, and others it's terrible! :-?


It is definitely a good idea to have more girls, simply because it is more stable, but sometimes (and I'm definitely not recommending it), fewer can work. For instance, if girls start to die off in a sorority due to age, sometimes just 2 or 3 will remain living happily together. My girls are so chilled with each other that I could probably have them in pairs without any trouble. It's not a good idea to start with so few, though. You need to know your fish and be prepared for anything. 
Maisy is right, though - it can take months for aggression to show.

I like AqAdvisor as a very basic guide, but it should be taken with a grain of salt as it doesn't take a lot of things into account. 

With glofish (and any standard danio for that matter), footprint is what is important, not volume. A 14 gallon with a long footprint would be better than a 20 gallon with a small one, for instance.  My 17 inch 5 gallon would be better for danios that my friend's 10 inch 8 gallon (I still wouldn't keep danios in it, of course.)


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## ILLBETHEJUDGE (Feb 27, 2012)

you guys are getting me worried! 
is my tank overstocked?
1 female betta
1 male platy and 3 females
1 female tetra and 10 ghost shrimp and if it is overstocked who needs to be rehomed? 
thanks.


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

Bombalurina said:


> It is definitely a good idea to have more girls, simply because it is more stable, but sometimes (and I'm definitely not recommending it), fewer can work. For instance, if girls start to die off in a sorority due to age, sometimes just 2 or 3 will remain living happily together. My girls are so chilled with each other that I could probably have them in pairs without any trouble. It's not a good idea to start with so few, though. You need to know your fish and be prepared for anything.
> Maisy is right, though - it can take months for aggression to show.
> 
> I like AqAdvisor as a very basic guide, but it should be taken with a grain of salt as it doesn't take a lot of things into account.
> ...


I forgot to mention previously that my tank is a long. With all due respect to those who disagree, i've been running the same setup for quite some time with no problems at all. My filtration is more than sufficient , my fish have shown no signs of stress, and my 3 female bettas get along fine. They've all established their own territories and do not fight. The tank is well planted, with caves and plenty of hiding spaces.

With that said, of course I do keep an eye on them. I have several small 2.5 gallon tanks with heaters and sponge filters in storage in case there is a problem in the future. 

As far as the glofish, the tank is long and i've never had any issues with them either. They swim around the entire tank, and aren't nippers.


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

ILLBETHEJUDGE said:


> you guys are getting me worried!
> is my tank overstocked?
> 1 female betta
> 1 male platy and 3 females
> ...


The only thing that sounds questionable is the 1 tetra. What kind of tetra is it? I know that Neons and Cardnials must be in a school of 5-6 at least, otherwise they will be stressed and may die. Other than that, it sounds like you wouldn't be overstocked unless you're using a 10 gallon, which if you are you might be slightly overstocked. Your filtration level might be at its limit as well, since the ghost shrimp leave more waste than other varieties, such as the cherries.

If your tetra is a variety that needs a school, I would recommend rehoming it. Other than the tetra, your stock sounds ok for 10 gallon, great for 15.


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## ILLBETHEJUDGE (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes i am using a 10 gallon! i think i would rehome the tetra and BTW is a longfin serpae tetra, he seems okay and can someone recommend a good filter for my ten gallon?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm pretty sure every tetra species needs to be in a school- smaller fish tend to feel more secure in groups.
Serpae tetra are the ones that aren't really betta safe if I recall, I'd probably try to rehome it to someone with a school..


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

ILLBETHEJUDGE said:


> Yes i am using a 10 gallon! i think i would rehome the tetra and BTW is a longfin serpae tetra, he seems okay and can someone recommend a good filter for my ten gallon?


Yes, that species does need a minimum of 5 which just wont work in that tanks, besides with out that tetra I think your stocking level is ok otherwise.

I recommend the Aqueon Quietflow 10 filter highly. It's very economical, quiet and does a great job. It filters up to 20 gallons, but I use 2 since my 14 gallon is heavily stocked.

Also if you can't find someone who already has a school of the tetras, try bringing it to a local pet shop that sells the same breed. Many will accept your fish into their stocks gladly.


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## ILLBETHEJUDGE (Feb 27, 2012)

Right now i am using an aqua-tech 5-15, is that okay or should i upgrade?


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

ILLBETHEJUDGE said:


> Right now i am using an aqua-tech 5-15, is that okay or should i upgrade?


I just checked the online calculator for your setup, you look like you don't have enough filtration with that unit. Instead of replacing it, you could supplement it with a small secondary filter, or a second filter of the same type for convenience. You can never have too much filtration, but you can have not enough. 

Until you have a chance to get a second filter, i would recommend you do 2 20% water changes week to help offset the light filtration.


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## ILLBETHEJUDGE (Feb 27, 2012)

or can i just upgrade to the 20 gallon one instead?


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## mzxeternal (Feb 24, 2012)

ILLBETHEJUDGE said:


> or can i just upgrade to the 20 gallon one instead?


Sure, that would be fine. But I don't think you're that far under-filtered. If you already have an existing air pump, getting an old school box filter or a small sponge filter might be all you need, and this way you can still use the filter you have. According to aqdvisior, your filtration is only about 10% less than where it should be and I find their numbers to be conservative.


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## ILLBETHEJUDGE (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for the help!


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