# Anyone ever had their Blue betta start turning white after fin tattering?



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I have posted about this in fish emergencies and while someone very kindly responded they had not seen it before either. Nano was lethargic and looked like he felt bad this morning. However, he has perked up some as the day has gone on. He is active just not as much as normal. He had trouble finding his food this morning which has never happened. I have removed the suspect tank decor. He had Ick could a reinfection cause this if I was not successful in erraditcation? Please have a look. I have AQ Salt in the tank now. I am probably going to remove him just in case there is still Ick in the tank. The water quality in the 5 gallon individual tank is all normal just tested yesterday and I am keeping the weekly water change schedule on the sponge filtered tank. 

The fin is definitely white not grey and there is nailhead sized patch on his body below the fin that is white too. I really love this betta (Nano) he is my most interactive fish and I want to take action asap while he is not completely downhill if I need to. If you've seen this please tell me what it is and what you did to treat it.

http://youtu.be/Mz2psznK9qk


----------



## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

Well, Zephyr has changed colors on me multiple times. When I first brought him home from Petco, he was white with translucent fins that had a slight green-blue sheen to them. 

After a few days, he began to show some blue marbling. The patches of blue grew larger and larger each day until a few weeks later, he was a solid, and very vibrant, cobalt blue in color. 

Then he began to nip at his tail and as a result, it got infected. He dulled into a dark grey blue and pale white patches grew on his fins, especially on the remains of his tail fin. Now that the infection is gone, he has regained his former solid blue color.

So I say yes, its entirely possible.


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

You said that part of his tail was growing back, right? Is this the part that is turning white? If it is don't panic yet. In my experience when bettas grow damaged fins back they start out clear, white, or greyish is color and then color in to his normal color. Is there any way you can share a picture of your guy with the white on him?

How long have you had him in AQ salt? While it is good for the betta leaving them in salt water to long can hurt them too. Most people seem to recommend leaving them in AQ salt no more then 10 days.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

He's on his 3rd day. There's no evidence of regrowth yet. His regrowth seems to be white and clear when he's had regrowth before. The ragged parts are white but don't look the same as I have seen before. There's just dots of blue and the white spot on his body.


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Jada, I really don't know for sure what is going on after seeing the video. To me it looks like what happens when people talk about red loss, but being as there's no visible red on you guy I'm stumped. Is he acting ok? If you don't get another reply try messaging one of the mods, they probably know better than me and all seem really great and helpful. I hope it's nothing and you little guy is fine, he's quite a handsome boy. When you find out what it is please let me know so if it happens to someone else I may be able to give a better answer.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

The white area on his body is turning pink. He had some small pinholes which comparatively is a huge hole today. I am removing him from his tank. He is still active but something is definitely wrong. I added more salt yesterday and changed his water again. I don't think salt is helping.


----------



## bettaman12 (Sep 8, 2012)

Yeah the exact same thing happened to me. After long treatments and it coming back and going, o'l blue passed about 2 months after the initial breakout.:-(


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Jada, if you haven't posted in the emergency thread do so & contact one of the moderators. If you know one contact them or try Sakura or one of the others. Maybe one of them can help!


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I did post there. I will find someone to ask. My batteries ran out on the camera so this video is just second so may have to replay but you will see what literally went from a pinhead size hole this morning to something you could fit a quarter through:

http://youtu.be/O4cZRBC12Zk


----------



## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

He could have some type of infection there. Do you think the white spots turning pink means that they are healing? Or getting worse? 
Also are bettas and perhaps other fish the same as some mammals or reptiles, in the sense that when they have a surface injury, sometimes when it heals, it is a different color than the original color, and the rest of the normal color? Like a dark horse whose hair grows back white in that place after an injury, or a lizard with a few odd colored scales that persist even after the injury has healed and after a few sheds. Are fish like that? Because if so maybe that white/ turning pink spot on his fins/ back are the result of a pigmentation change after an injury? If it is what Im terming "injury - induced pigmentation change", and I am by no means saying that is what it is, there is probably not much you can do, those pigmentation changes are likely permanent, but probably solely superficial, and as long as the injury isn't extensive or serious, and heals relatively normally, that pigmentation change shouldn't be an issue. 

I'm more worried about the growing hole in the tail fin. It is possible he tore his fin on something and it keeps tearing more, creating a bigger hole? Are there any other tank mates- fish, crabs,shrimp, small crayfish that could have attacked him and done that?Does anyone know of any parasite or disease that affects fish that could cause pale patches and/ or growing holes in fins?
I apologize for the fact I don't know much about ill fish at all! I'm really sorry I'm not being very helpful, and am just throwing out random suggestions, but I hope your fish starts getting better from what ever is wrong!


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

To me it does look like a tear that is still getting caught on something and tore more. If he has any more decoration or fake plants in his tank I'd take them out. 

Are you treating him with anything besides AQ salt? If not I'd suggest getting something that will help with the healing of the fins. From what I've read here don't get anything with 'fix' in the name, such as bettafix. I don't know if API Stress Coat is strong enough, but I know it's suggested when helping an ill or wounded betta get better.

I really hope & pray it's nothing more than a tear. I have more bettas than any sane person needs as pets, but I would be heart broken to loose any of them. Please keep me updated on how Nano is. Has one of the moderators been able to help you yet?


----------



## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Try the info on this website- fishyfarmacy.com, look under fish diseases, in particular the section "advanced fish diseases". It has some say to use charts with symptoms, probable causes, and recommended treatments, and has separate pages for fin, skin, fecal, behavioral, physical, color changes, and quite a few more. Here are the links to the Skin changes page:http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/skin_disorders.html and the fin page: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/fins.htmlHopefully those links work. 
Obviously you should read every single one of the symptom descriptions, because nobody knows what changes have been happening to your fish better than you, but to my uneducated self, going off your posts on your fishes symptoms, and that websites charts I think your fishes skin symptoms sounded most similar to the ones listed in the skin chart as C). , F) , I) , J) , K), O), P), and U). As far as the fin page there was nothing really that specifically mentioned holes in fins, but under the symptom section labeled K). it mentioned something about reddish discoloration at the base of fins, and/or reddish streaks throughout fish fins, and while you didn't say anything about fin streaks, or red areas, you did mention that one white area had turned pink, and maybe the color pink is considered to be under the "reddish" spectrum, so that might be your fish. 
What was your Ph level, going off that website only, some of the symptoms that sounded somewhat similar to your fish could be caused by a ph that's too high. Good luck and hope your fishy is on the mend already!


----------



## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

justmel said:


> To me it does look like a tear that is still getting caught on something and tore more. If he has any more decoration or fake plants in his tank I'd take them out.
> 
> Are you treating him with anything besides AQ salt? If not I'd suggest getting something that will help with the healing of the fins. From what I've read here don't get anything with 'fix' in the name, such as bettafix. I don't know if API Stress Coat is strong enough, but I know it's suggested when helping an ill or wounded betta get better.
> 
> I really hope & pray it's nothing more than a tear. I have more bettas than any sane person needs as pets, but I would be heart broken to loose any of them. Please keep me updated on how Nano is. Has one of the moderators been able to help you yet?


I am new to this and know relatively nothing about the subject, is that true, about not using Bettafix and other products with the name "fix" in them? Do they harm the fish in any way, or do they just not work for the intended purpose? What about products that have things like "Rid" or "X" in the name? The reason I am asking is not only so that I can further my own knowledge and understanding of fish keeping, but because the above links to the website I had just found during my own Internet research in my previous post may have treatment recommendations that recommend products with "fix" in the name, although to my untrained eye, a quick glance at the recommended treatments just seemed like the ingredients in the recommended treatment, most did not seem to be specific brands or particular individual products, but what do I know, lol. I was more paying attention to the symptoms and causes, and i Don't want to have linked to a site that recommends products that you're not supposed to use (that is the "fix" products like bettafix). I just came across that website in my research and it seemed helpful, but if its not, forget about that site then.


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> s that true, about not using Bettafix and other products with the name "fix" in them?


The main ingredient in Bettafix is a tea tree oil that has been known to destroy the fish's labrenth organ (what they use to breath from the surface). However, there are many reports saying that it is a miracle drug. I have it and have used it since it was the only thing I could find at the time. If you choose to use it, do NOT overdose. There is also melefix and pimafix which I think are the same as bettafix but stronger. 

If you want to try the medicinal approach - I would try something like Furan2 or triple sulfa. This site will help with what meds can do, you need to scroll down a bit though as the first few are for the "fix" meds.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Pimafix.html

Furan2


> * Effective against a wide variety of gram-positive and gram negative bacterial diseases of aquarium fish, including; Furunculosis (Aeromonas), Dropsy, Gill Disease, Fin and Tail Rot, Hemorrhagic Septicemia, Eye Cloud, Black Molly Disease.
> 
> *Can be combined with Kanaplex to make an even more wide spectrum treatment, especially for difficult cases of Columnaris or Aeromonas. This duplicates the popular Aquatronics product “Spectrogram” that is no longer available.
> *Can be combined with Kanaplex & Metronidazole for parasitic, fungal, & bacterial infections; this duplicates the popular Aquatronics product “Paragon 2” that is no longer available.


Triple Sulfa


> Anti-bacterial medication- Controls a wide range of pathogenic bacterial infections
> * Hemorrhagic Septicemia
> * Mouth Fungus
> * Body Slime & Eye Cloud
> ...


TETRACYCLINE


> Alternative treatment for Erythromycin, especially for Streptococcus infections in fish (not to be combined with Erythromycin).
> *Effective for SOME causes of diseases such as bacterial tail rot, cotton mouth fungus and gill disease.
> *Primarily gram positive, however Tetracycline has some wide spectrum gram negative use as well.
> *Tetracycline will cause a slight brown discoloration & foam of water which can be removed with activated carbon.


Seachem's Kannaplex


> Blended Kanamycin based medication that safely treats several fungal and bacterial diseases (Dropsy, Popeye, tail rot, septicemia, flexibacter), as well *Kanamycin has been shown often effective for Mycobacterium marinum (Fish TB). *
> Because it is absorbed by the fish it is useful in treating internal infections in those situations where food is refused. It does not adversely affect the filter bed and is easily removed with carbon.
> 
> *Can be combined with Furan 2 to make an even more wide spectrum treatment, especially for difficult cases of Columnaris or Aeromonas.
> ...


Petsmart sells the API meds but Petco does not. petco is pretty useless, actually. If you want kannaplex, I have only seen it online - Ebay or Amazon

A while back, someone had a fish that had patches that turned white and had fins issues that looked similar. I dont remember the owner but, I do remember that it was a MALE fish named HOLLY.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I have Jungle Fungus Cure, Marycyn 2, I can get Marcyn 1, Paraguard, Mardel Ick treatment. I also have Kannaplex. It's just picking the right one. He has got another pinhole and the hole from yesterday is now a split. I put him in hospital tank that is floating in his own tank. His Nitrate had spiked to 5ppm. Which was just one more reason to remove him. Thanks for the support. I think I am also try to find a fish named Holly.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Well that was not an encouraging thread Holly is now SIP. There are some similarities. Nano fins look odd kind of gritty and there is disintergration. The top fin at least is fusing back together. The rest are not as good.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you just start aq salt 3 days ago it will take time to work. Did you use 3tsp/gall dissolved salt? Did you was doing daily 100% water changes, not sure why you had Nitrate spiked.Make sure you don't share anything between sick and your other fish.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I call the fish pharmacy they say the problems I am having with this fish and two others caused by parasites partly gill flukes and some other one (unnamed) which are eating my fishes fins or body. She said I should use pranziquantel. Assuming I can get it I would still like to back it up with an anti-biotic. There are yellow scale-like things near the gills of some of my fish which were on the fish at purchase. She says these are gill flukes. Thoughts on this. Right now I probably have every anti-biotic known to fish treatment at my disposal.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Even before treatement he has more white in his fins (over period of hours). More lacy like holes and some look like ribbons. I have API General Cure which has the drug suggested in it plus metronidizole. His behavior is fairly normal. I emailed a mod if I don't hear soon. I am going to have to do something. I am fairly certain flukes are present near his gills it looks like this just not as bad. It's like one row each side. He's had them all along but I didn't know that is what it was:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/temp-2012-02-03/HFvhssCuwyxqjlDpqFxqkADACnhyElFIcGegDGJbJAeJDBktJwmdmlCtBDnF/betta_gill_flukes.jpg.scaled1000.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1367450537&Signature=i93AU6IPu6VN6bSzJuWPcJZZ8o8%3D


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Jada. If you want to use General Cure and an antibiotic together, get Furan-2, not Triple Sulfa.

Sounds like a combination of fin rot/fluke damage. The fin rot is probably a secondary bacterial infection from the fluke damage. If you don't see blackened edges, I'd start with General Cure or another parasite med first and add the antibiotic only if it looks like the parasite meds aren't helping.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Rats! I went and bought Triple Sulfa. I will go back tommorow. Can I dose his hospital tank (divided in ten equal parts-giving one part?) like the API General Cure suggests and also try to get him to eat it?


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I reread the email it looks like I am supposed to dose the tank and the fish is supposed to eat the antibiotics. 
His fins look so awful just in a days time. His disposition is still good though. 
I gave the API General Cure hopefully it was enough. I tried to divide into tenths. I put an air hose in the hospital tank to make the water is well oxygenated. I have been reading many of these meds reduce oxygen contributing to fish death. It may not apply to bettas but I don't figure it will not hurt.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Jada . . . hmm. Yes, that sounds about right for treatment. If we're thinking that his lethargy is from an internal infection then the fastest way to get meds to that internal infection is via medicated food. But Furan-2 isn't used for medicated food; Kanaplex is. 

So, picking the right antibiotic depends on what you want it to treat. If it's external, Furan-2 will work. If it's internal, go with the Kanaplex. If we're not sure, go with the Kanaplex since it will also absorb into the gills whereas Furan-2 won't. 

 Goodnes, it really is confusing, isn't it? 

Now, the General Cure. Did you just start dosing it tonight? And what size tank? A convenient way to dose General Cure is to get a container that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Add the dosage of General Cure and mix well. Then add 1/2 cup of medicated water per 1 gallon of tank water. So if his tank is say 3 gallons, you'd add 1.5 cups of medicated water. You can store the rest of the medicated water for a day or two and reuse.

It is true many meds do reduce the oxygen because that's how they can kill aerobic bacteria; aerobic bacteria uses a lot of oxygen to thrive. For bettas, who can breathe supplemental air from the surface, it's not quite so dire to have aeration in the tank but it never hurts. 

So, since I'm still confused by my own post, let me sum up: 
if you have it, use the Kanaplex for antibiotics. If you are mainly trying to treat an internal infection, medicate food with it. If not, use it in the tank with the General Cure.

In a case like this, do not stop with the Kanaplex until you've done at least two courses (6 total doses). I don't want to see any bacteria come back resistant to meds.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks my cat is also very, very ill so I'm in a bit of of a turmoil my head is not clear.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh no. I'm so sorry about your cat. Fingers, fins, and paws are crossed!


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Jada I'm glad you found Sakura to help you. I hope things start improving quickly for Nano now and am praying for your kitty as well. To me it awlays seems if 1 gets sick half my pets get sick, like that old saying of my moms 'if it rains it poors' 

I'm moving over the weekend so might not be able to check often, but I am watching this thread and routing for Nano to pull through.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Nano is about the same I am glad he is not worse off.

My cat passed away at about 5:15 today. He's had cancer and he may have a complication as the result of it. We knew it was coming sooner of later although it seem like he was doing better until the past couple of days. We have a very kind vet who gave us an injectable sedative in case we were faced with this situation so he could go to vet unaware that where he was headed to. 

He got to hear a bird singing brightly and I set him down on his bed in the grass so he could smell the dew and the grass one more time. We got in the car and left the window down so he could still here the bird singing while we drove. He passed away sleeping in car. I glad he passed peacefully. I will miss him a great deal. "Big Cat" was about 15 years old. I posted his picture in finless friends. Thanks for the support. I will keep you posted about Nano.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Actually I just looked in on him and his eyes are bulging so I believe he now has popeye. Headed to fish emergencies and the internet learn about this now.


----------



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Jada I'm really sorry to hear about your cat. Even knowing it was coming doesn't make it any easier, but at the very least he's not hurting anymore. I hope you are doing ok.

Sounds like good news that Nano is the same. Since he's been getting worse everyday I'd say it's a good sign that he hasn't gotten worse now.

*Will teach me not to refresh before posting when I walk away for a few minutes! I hope you can help Nano through this. I know you have done everything you can so far, and will continue to do so.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

The General Cure package says to redose after 48 hours. I am doing it daily am I am just doing this two days or 4 days? The directions are a little confusing because they say you must do two dose to be complete but they don't specifiy how long to wait after the 2nd dose. He has passed a slimy looking stool with some small brown specks in it. I can't see if the gill flukes are gone because the Sterilite container while clear isn't crystal clear. The National Pharmacy rep said I should finish parasite treatment before following up with antibiotics. I am not sure the popeye can wait very long for treatment. She also said the tank temperature needed to get down to 80 degrees. So I moved his tank downstair where it's cooler. It was headed that way anyway since I have a new aquarium set up in process. He is the only fish on the stand right now and will stay that way until he is well.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Jada, I'm so sorry about your cat.  Big HUGS for you. 

Now, about Nano. Hmm. 

Here's the thing. If he has flukes, then A) you won't be able to see them so you won't be able to tell if they're gone, so no worries about that part and B) the temp should go UP for flukes because higher temps shortens the life spans of most external parasites. 

In the case of General Cure. It's confusing and I actually found the same confusing info for praziquantel when I needed to deworm a cat. Must be a prazi thing. :roll: Anyway, I would go ahead and do at least 4 doses, probably 6. 

You can combine General Cure with Kanaplex and Furan-2 to make an extremely powerful drug combination but in this case, you probably only need the Kanaplex.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Does Kanaplex need to be taken internally to treat popeye? Is there any harm in dosing the Kanaplex both ways?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No. It can be added to the water.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

He's getting both now. Keeping fingers crossed that I see less bulging in the morning.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Nano is still doing ok. It's hard to tell he if he is getting better. He still has popeye. He still has the white areas. It doesn't seem like he's getting worse. He is still very interractive with me, chasing my finger and flaring his gill covers but not his fins. I thinking of am reducing his tank water to 1.5 gallon or perhaps 2 and treating him in tank. To make daily water changes easier. I think he'd be much happier. I have to check the water paremeters and take his sponge filter. I figure I could leave sit in a bucket of tank water until I can put it back.
I will post a new picture of him soon.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How old is Nano? The white areas may be a result of aging. Reducing the water in his tank does sound like a good idea.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

So today first the positives: his popeye seems to have gone down, the color has returned to his body below his dorsal fins, whatever the yellow crusty things were on his gill cover were ( I presume gill flukes enmass) are gone, his fins while they seem to look worse appear to be meshing. He is eating fine and is still interactive. 
The only negative is that he looks bloated in the "tummy area" and it's whitish.
Here are pic not long or great (batteries dying in camera)

http://youtu.be/12HJtygQCpg



















The first video for comparison

http://youtu.be/Mz2psznK9qk 

I have not released him into his regular tank. I was thinking the kanaplex would kill my cycle if one even exists now. The water from the hospital tank since it's floating in his regular tank has leaked out occassionally. Does it matter at this point? I imagine any amount of kanaplex leaking into the fish tank would kill off the good bacteria.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

His poor fins do look pretty beat up but he seemed lively so that's a good sign. He did look a tad bit bloated though, something to keep an eye on. If the bloating is perhaps caused by an internal bacterial problem, the Kanaplex will help with that but if it's caused by something else like parasites then we'll have to treat him for that later. 

When used in the tank itself, Kanaplex probably does have potential to kill of some of the good bacteria. Some meds are extremely harsh and others aren't so bad; I think Kanaplex is one of the not so bad ones. A small amount of medicated water leaking into the tank shouldn't hurt though.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

He is taking the API General Cure for parasites and the Kanaplex. I think I have maybe one or two days left on the API GC to make 6 days on it. I could do a epsom salt dip if you think that would help.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Let's wait and see if he improves first. I forgot he was on the General Cure too; most likely not internal parasites then since the General Cure would've taken care of that. He could just be bloated from the medication.


----------



## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Nano is just as active as ever, excited to see me, but still bloated but still eating. I am going to withold his morning feeding and see if it has any effect. He has developed two at least more new pinholes. I don't know why with daily water changes and Kanaplex he would still get more pinholes. Today is the last day of parasite treatment. I am not sure how long to do the Kanplex for.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can continue with the Kanaplex for up to 6 doses and then we can see if it needs to be continued. 

I've noticed when a fish is sick, the fins start to deteriorate regardless of what the original illness is. I think stress must play a part in that somehow.


----------

