# Murderous Betta & Algae (& Clams)



## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

This is Fred. Fred is a serial killer.

Fred's tank also has algae (& clams). 

I'd love to know what I can put in with him to eat the algae that he won't kill. I feel like I need an Otocinclus Catfish that has been cross-bred with an armadillo!

Is there a glass cleaning pleco out there that will fit at least a year(ish) in a 5 gallon? (I have larger tanks to move one into)

Because Fred lives with clams, I can't use algae treatment, and I can't remove the self-burying clams without destroying the very well planted tank.

I want to stress - Fred is a killer.

This is no normal betta. I've had bettas off and on for a lot of years, and he is one of three I currently own. Fred is a call in the FBI, there are no bodies, mass murderer of fish and shrimp.

Fred is a plain jane, blue veil that was added to a Spec III I got in early December. On Christmas day he opted to eat a neon tetra by biting (and eating) its belly. This earned him a trip to the (planted and heated, 1 gallon) vase of banishment. 

I now also have a Spec V (because apparently aquascaping is addictive), and I've added him to that. He pretty much instantly devoured the ghost shrimp cleaning crew that tank had while it was getting established, and he even nipped at the fresh water clams in the tank (not that he can harm a clam), and I had to pull out the mystery snail before it lost its noodily appendages.

Fred is gloriously happy. He's a murderous SOB, but he also is a swimming around, poking his nose into things, hunter who is great to watch when the most expensive thing he is killing is a $0,39 ghost shrimp. 

The answer may be he needs go back in the vase of banishment. I'm just looking for options. (The vase of banishment seemed fine to him).

Ideas?


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Go with a marimo ball. I know - I know. I'm telling you to add ALGAE to control ALGAE. From what I understand though - a marimo ball will help starve out algae by out-competing it for resources.

Otherwise - is your boy a stone-cold killer for snails? Nerites won't go crazy breeding in your tank and LOVE algae.

Finally - how much lighting is your tank getting? How many hours per day?


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## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

I didn't know that about marimo balls. That's a great idea.

This is a stone cold killer. He is also dumb (even for a fish). In fact, he just tried to kill piece of duckweed. 

Light: One corner of the tank gets sunlight every clear morning, and the rest of the tank has artificial lighting from noon to about 8pm. This isn't bright (35 LEDs that claim to be ~60W, over 5 galloons). 

I have one Nerite in the tank at the moment, but he/she sticks to the rocks and plants in the densest part of the tank. I've been trying to watch to see if Fred harasses it, but I think he has determined that (like the clams) the nerite isn't food. The mystery snails were a total no go with their long antennae and snorkel.


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## iceburg47 (Jan 14, 2015)

I'm not much of expert, but I do know that direct sunlight can exacerbate algae growth. How direct is the sunlight your tank gets and how long does it get it?

Also, 60 watts sounds like a huge amount of power for LEDs in that small an area. Do they mean it's equivalent to a 60w incandescent bulb? That would seem more reasonable and is a pretty common way of marketing them. 

If you actually do have that much light I would think you need to cut it back to keep the algae at bay.


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## lizcateyes (Oct 22, 2014)

Have you tried snails with Fred? I'd recommend Nerites, they're amazing algae eaters and have shells, which bettas can't bite through  The ones I have that have been in with my shrimp killers have survived even the peskiest of my bettas, eventually they give up and ignore the snails. 

An oto needs to be in a group with at least 5 of them, apparently they share gut microbes when they eat so having 1 by itself won't work :-/


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## lizcateyes (Oct 22, 2014)

Woops I didn't see that you already had one nerite  You could likely have another, 2 together will eat more algae than just one by itself. The ones I have in my 10 gallon seem to be more productive knowing that they have company, whereas the ones I have in my 3-5 gallon tanks are slower in their eating.


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## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

Hi iceburg47 - The LEDs draw 60-W. No idea what they output :-/ There are 35 white LEDs over 5.2 gallons. Over on plantedtank, it's referred to as a low-intensity light (and it nicely kills bright-light loving plants), so it's really not that many watts per gallon. 

(I'm actually kind of annoyed with Fluval that I can't readily find the actual Lumens anywhere)

As for sunlight, one corner of the tank will get direct sunlight until about 9am (and I haven't gotten up to find out how early the sunlight starts). The sunbeam only extends a couple inches into the tank.

lizcateyes, I think you're right about adding more snails. Fred will pester them, but at least (I don't think) he will sort how to kill them. I love the oto's, and have several in another tank with shrimp and several cpd.


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## lizcateyes (Oct 22, 2014)

How long have you had your otos? I'm actually actively looking to get 5, my planted 20 gal I have set up is cycled & ready for them! 

It's so hard to find healthy ones, the last 5 I bought all did not make it, sadly.


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## Aeon (Jul 15, 2014)

star im dying over the fact that u banaished him to the vase!!!!! classic punishment. im sorry u have a mass murder in ur tank and no one can help, but that was pretty funny. I have the same issues with alage im gonna have to get some otto cuz my snails arent really touching the plants. I wish u the best in finding something fred cant kill.


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## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

Lizcateyes, I have to admit, I just got back into larger aquariums after work-related travel made it impossible for several years. This means the oldest Otos are just from December. I've bought them in groups of three, and consistently had 1 of the three die within a week after struggling from moment zero :-/ I think the process of being netted is very difficult for them, and I've taken to catching them by hand or in a glass cup if they need caught for some reason.

The ones I have now seem vigorous, but I have to admit to spending several minutes each morning searching them out in my tank in a paranoid "please don't let anyone have died" kind of way. 

PS Apparently there was a shrimp in with Fred... the shrimp is no more.


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## Fourthwind (Jan 28, 2015)

Maybe try a Siamese algae eater? NOT to be confused with the Chinese sucker version! I have one in with one of my boys who tends to be a bit agro, and after a few hours he gave up because the SAE was just too quick. BTW this same Betta was also a fresh water killing machine when it came to shrimp as well. Hunted them down mercilessly.


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## Siobhan (Nov 11, 2013)

Fred sounds entertaining, if a wee bit bloodthirsty. LOL Even ramshorn snails can fall victim to a Killer Fish, because I recently started keeping platies and mollies and they are decimating the ramshorns in their tank. And if you know ramshorns, you know they breed prolifically, but they can't keep up with the rate at which they're ending up as dinner for these guys. I'm fishing a few out at a time and transferring them to Opie the Lazy Betta's tank, but he has such a population already that I don't want to overcrowd that tank trying to rescue these snails. I've never had a Killer Betta. Freckles has three or four ghost shrimp in his tank and he likes to nudge them so they zoom around, but he hasn't hurt them in any way. He nudges, they zoom, he has a little betta chuckle to himself and then wanders off.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Malaysian trumpet snails. I'd go with snail not fish since he has proven he cannot be trusted with other fish.


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## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

Update: the ultimate solution was rearranging fish. Serial Killer Fred turned into a gentle boy once moved into a 15gal where he is of only average size.

This works
15 tall Aqueon (cycled)
Fred
3 long skirt white tetras
2 Rams (young)
6 (temporary) young(!) scissor tall rasboras
4 julli corys

(There is a 75 gallon in the works, thus scissor talls in a 15g)










Fred's tank now contains Marley the Calm.

5gal spec V (cycled)
Marley
4 unbelievably tiny bushy nosed pleco with 4 future tanks once bigger
3 oto
3 emerald Cory


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

What's that white holey stuff in your first picture? It looks wicked cool!

(also your writing made me laugh)


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## starstryder (Feb 12, 2015)

It's Texas Holey Rock. It's sold for chiclid aquariums and will mess with your pH, but with my water, everything has stayed healthy for Bettas. My favourite vendor is a vendor on eBay that sells really smooth stone.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow, I'm glad you found a good solution!


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## Axeria (Feb 6, 2015)

HAHAHA! Omg this thread is AWSOME!! I love how you write about your beautiful fish! It is hillarious!  *Subbing*


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Seachem Excel will kill algae; use half-dose if tank contains inverts. Whole-tank treatment with Peroxide also works at 2 ml per gallon over several days.


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## chazdanbetta (Mar 24, 2015)

I have read about a recently discovered armoured catfish thing, worth a look at.
will try and find a link.


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