# Housing for betta with chronic SBD



## Smumbles (Feb 23, 2014)

Hi, I am hoping someone here can help me figure out housing for my betta. My little guy has developed what I think is a chronic swim bladder disorder - he sinks like a stone to the bottom of the tank, where he lies on his side and he really struggles to get to the surface for food. He's had this condition for about two weeks now, and otherwise looks healthy (good colour, no clamped fins, healthy appetite, responsive). I've tried fasting him in case his symptoms are caused constipation, but it's had no effect (and I had doubted it was the cause, as he has never been a big eater). The issue is that he's in a 10 gallon tank (cycled and heated, water parameters normal), so getting to the surface for food and air is a really big struggle for him. I noticed that he had begun lying at the bottom of the tank next to the filter intake as at least some of the food in the tank eventually made its way to that corner. To relieve the stress, I've put him into a small floating tank inside the bigger tank, so that he gets the benefit of heated, filtered water but doesn't have to struggle to get to the surface - the tank is here https://www.aquariumkingdom.com.au/aqua-one-mini-float-guppy-tank-0.75l. I've also put a silk plant into the float tank so he can hide and rest on the leaves near the surface. He seems much happier - it's easier for him to get food and he can rest right at the surface of the water, his appetite has also increased (though I'm careful not to overfeed him, particularly as he's so inactive). 

My concern is that as it's become more likely that this condition is permanent (though I'm still hoping he'll get better!), I'm begging to worry that it might be cruel to keep him in an area that size for too long. Definitely he isn't up to swimming much because of his flotation issues - when he had access to the whole tank he spent 90% of his time lying in the corner. I initially hoped he would learn to perch on one of the java ferns in the 10 gal that reach almost to the surface of the water, but after observing him, it seems that if I give him access to the whole tank, that means he'll spend his time lying on the floor. I'm loathe to lower the water in the 10 gal because (a) he shares the tank with 10 dwarf rasboras and (b) I think that the water is more stable the bigger the volume. 

On the plus side, I've had him for about 18 months and he's never been a very active fish - even before this issue developed, he spent most of his time asleep on the floor of his tank or hiding.

So here's my question (sorry for all the explanation above!): is it cruel to keep a betta in such a small area for a long period of time? Is it cruel to be keeping him alive full stop if he can't swim around regardless of his housing?

And (in case my post wasn't long enough already!), as a follow up question: if I keep him in a small space is there anything I can do to give him enrichment and make it less 'boring' for him? I was thinking of buying one of those floating mirrors to play with him so he could have a couple of minutes a day of flaring. But I'm concerned that flaring might actually cause more stress for him as he is a super scaredy little fellow - before this incident I rarely saw him, and the last time I showed him a mirror he swam away and hid. I've actually never seen him flare. 

Finally - if anyone has any other treatment ideas, please let me know! I'm in Australia, so can't access any aquarium antibiotics due to our restrictions.


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## XTashX (Jan 7, 2016)

Hi there 

I have a double tail 1 of the 5 betta's I have at the moment, and he has had Swim Bladder disorder for around 3 months and he is doing great despite the disability. So it is not the end of the world! But you do have to cater for him or he will suffer! I

What you need to do and I cannot stress this enough is put him in (downgrade him) to a 5 gallon tank (as you cannot do so with the current 10 gallon) and only fill the water level up to around 10cm high. While this seems very low it the best thing you can do for him so he will not struggle nearly as much. Unlike the floater box, he will still have a decent length and width to travel which is more important then depth anyway (if you had to choose). Along with this i would put many floaters in eg: Indian Almond leaves, and silk plants placed on there side do well too. I think you will find once the water level is dramatically lower he will have no problems resting just under the water on the leaves/plants yet still room to swim around.

I think the fact there he has such a long distance up to the surface and he sinks like a stone is why he is choosing to rest on the bottom, it is just too much work and I imagine extremely stressful.

My guy spends time on the leaves and the bottom but as it is shallow he has no problems manoeuvring anywhere he wants to go. He is still active and greets me whenever I come up to his tank and he has a healthy appetite too and this is after 3 months.

Providing it is not a swim bladder bacterial infection and you cater to his needs just like any other disability I see no reason why he cannot live out the rest of his life somewhat comfortably


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## Hyunjicho (Nov 8, 2016)

You can get a huge container or aquarium and only fill it maybe half a foot. Give him a ton of plants. I feel that the mirror would just worsen his condition and stress him out. Although it's healthy to flare in small amounts, doing it for long whiles will stress them out. You can add ping pong balls. For the food, maybe you can dip the pellet in garlic juice and put the pellet in front of him. The pellet will sink because it's wet and the garlic can prevent parasites and it acts as an appetite stimulant


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## CollegeBettas (Feb 23, 2016)

I would try and make or get some platforms such as the betta hammock (I don't know if they have those in Australia). I recently lost my boy with SBD (his was from tumors) and that's what I was working on getting before he passed. I would also bring down the water level about halfway, so will want to use a sponge filter if you do this though, because a hang on the back wouldn't work with the water level low. You could also just reduce the tank size and use a 2.5 or 5.5 tank as well.
As for treatment, use StressGaurd and epsom salt. If those don't help him, just don't add any more. One thing I have heard though is that if they don't struggle when you pick them up, they probably don't have the energy or will to live anymore. Two days before my boy died, he was barely struggling when I picked him up.
Does he drag his bottom half when he swims?


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## Smumbles (Feb 23, 2014)

Hi guys!

Thanks so much for all your replies - they're super helpful.

XTashX - it's so nice to hear that I can create a suitable environment for him. I hate the idea of him being unhappy but have no idea how I'd go trying to euthanise a fish, so I'm super glad that I don't have to start thinking about that.

I have a few questions about a partly filled tank - would you recommend cycling the tank still, or would the low volume of water make a cycle unstable? In the past I've really struggled to keep a tank smaller than 10 gal stable, both temperature- and water parameters-wise (though I was new to cycling a tank, I pretty much bought a tank in a panic after buying a betta and being told it would be happy in a tiny space and then learning that wasn't true.) To be completely honest I'm a bit nervous about trying to maintain a smaller tank just because of my past failures! Either way, how often should I be doing water changes in a tank that size (I'm assuming if not cycled, I should do 100%...is that right? but cycled only 25%?)

Also, do any of you have a recommendation for a substrate (if any?) to put on the bottom of the tank? In my current tank I have gravel, but after lying on the ground for a while, Ninja's tail started to look a little tattered. Ideally I'd like to give him something soft and gentle to lie on given that he'll probably be spending a lot of time on the bottom.

Do you think it would be possible to make a diy setup (I googled diy breeder traps and found pictures) that I keep in the 10 gallon? Because my rasboras feed from the surface, I couldn't put it across the whole top of the tank, but I could maybe make it 20 x 20 cm, and 10 cm high (8 x 8 inches, 4 inches high), and pant it with some java fern. Would that still be too small for him to be truly happy though? 

Hyunjicho - thanks for the garlic juice suggestion - I'll definitely try that! This might be a completely ignorant question...but how do I juice a garlic? Also...ping pong balls? That sounds so cute! What do they do? (In my head I'm imagining trying to find tiny ping pong paddles for him : D but I'm sure that that's not what they're for!)

CollegeBettas - firstly I'm sorry to hear about you losing your boy, I would find tumors so stressful as I would have no idea what to do about them. In terms of his swimming, he kind of wriggles like mad to swim forward and up, but his tail keeps pointing down and dropping. He doesn't quite drag his bottom along the ground because he's constantly fighting to get lift. As soon as he stops swimming he sinks though (onto either a leaf or the bottom of the tank.) He definitely still struggles if I try to pick him up (it was a nightmare trying to net him to put him into the breeder box, he was darting around on the bottom of the tank and I was convinced he was going to rip his tail off on the gravel!) I've looked at the betta hammocks (I'd have to order online, but would happily put them all over the tank if it would help!) but I was a little worried that he'd just fall off? He tends to prop himself up between two leaves when he rests on them, because he sort of falls sideways if he doesn't. I've currently got a silk plant that I've lain on its side in his little breeder box so that all the leaves are concentrated in one spot for him to use for support. But I'll happily try the betta hammock if you recommend it. Do you mean for it to go into a smaller tank, or is it an alternative to putting him in a smaller tank?

Thanks again guys so much for your suggestions. I'm sorry to bombard you all with a tonne of questions, I just want to make sure I do this right!


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## CollegeBettas (Feb 23, 2016)

With the tail dropping, it does sound like him swim bladder has deflated. Just about the only thing that would fix it at this point is probably surgery or life vest.The leaves can help in either size bigger or smaller tank. I have not tried them personally, though, but he should be able to actually rest on it. Another thing you could do is moss platforms, which would be larger and sturdier. You would probably want to cover them in moss to make them softer. Here are some from Han Aquatics as an example, but I don't think he ships to Australia: Moss/Plant Ledge - Han Aquatics I know one person in Australia was struggling to find them, but I am going to be working on making my own soon with craft mesh, so I can let you know if that works.
As for cycling, if the tank is already cycled and has been, and you use the same filter or media, it will stay cycled no matter how small it is, it is just more difficult to get a smaller tank to cycle because Ammonia builds up faster. I use ceramic rings as media, so when I start a new tank, I just use a few of the used rings and I get an instant cycle.
For substrate, you could use sand. With sand, though, you need to make sure you stir up the sand weekly so it doesn't go bad. Rabbit or Trumpet Snails will do it for you.
You could also make him a breeder box out of craft mesh and binder clip or add suction cups to stick it on the side. You would just need to cut some rectangle of mesh and zip tie them together. There is also a type of yarn you can use, but I forget what kind is safe (Spoiler alert: I looked it up and it's acrylic yarn).


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## XTashX (Jan 7, 2016)

I had to reply to your topic, I can totally relate having been there myself, it's not an ideal situation but adjustments can be made. I still stand by my method, but the decision is yours to which way you go and I wish you the best.

In relation to your cycling/ water change question I would avoid doing 100% water changes, I believe they are just too stressful. (I personally hate this option)

Using an already establish filter would be great if you have one, if not I would at least try to get the tank to cycle, it should be possible if you keep with it.

Just keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels (I assume you have the liquid test kits, if not I highly recommend you get them). For every .25 of ammonia in the tank do a 25% water change or for every .5 level of ammonia do a 50% water change. Just make sure you have Prime and dose every 24hrs the correct amount and your fish will not be effected by those levels of ammonia. It is safe to dose every 24hrs using prime providing you use the correct dose. I have done this with all my fish. They were all "fish in cycle" which is safe for betta's providing done properly.

My guy used to love his big tank before he got SBD, there was no stopping him, but now he appreciates the low water level, I have experienced this first hand and I strongly recommend you keep the water level really low - like 10cm low, others may disagree with this but from my experience it was the best thing I did for him (with his floats of course) however there is Swim Bladder Disease (infection) along with Swim Bladder Disorder and then of course varying degrees of severity. My guy, after 3 months, I can safely say it is a disorder, still inquisitive and eats well, still fiesty so he could go on for a very long time yet but every case is different. If it is more serious it will show itself sooner rather then later.

Epsom salts will help if the cause of his SBD is constipation I tried fasting my guys for 3 days and did the epsom salt treatment however this did not help with his SBD. So there was no point continuing. I have noticed if I feed him more he sinks quicker so I do feed him a little less then what I used to for this reason.

The only difference is is that I kept him in his original tank and dramatically lowered the water level. If he is going in a smaller/different tank it may take him a little longer to adjust, but I think long term, maybe even short term he will appreciate it.

Being pessimistic here but if he get's worse ie: stops eating there may be something else going wrong internally with him and you may need to consider putting him down (if he is suffering and incurable) But,,, that's absolute worse case scenario. On an unrelated topic I had to do this once with a betta that had dropsy and after 5 days I just couldn't bear it anymore and did the clove oil thing) I hope I never have a case of Dropsy again it is the most hideous disease and always ends in fatality but I wanted to give the little guy a chance but it got to the point where there was no choice, the pinconing and swollen gut looks and I imagine would be extremely painful.

The sooner you can create this new environment for him the better, just keep a clear head and pace yourself through it and you will be fine


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## Hyunjicho (Nov 8, 2016)

You can just squish up some garlic and then roll the pellet in them or you can soak em in the juice. Do fresh garlic because there's scientific evidence supporting that fresh garlic will prevent parasites. Just drop a clean ping pong ball in and maybe he'll poke at it. If there aren't any betta ammocks, you can order them online or DIY them with craft mesh and thread. I wouldn't put any substrate because it'll be harder to find food and if he doesn't get it after a while, you can easily find it and suck up the pellet with a turkey baster,


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## Smumbles (Feb 23, 2014)

*He got better!*

I just wanted to post a quick update, one last question and another thank you on this post!

I wound up taking little bits of everyone's advice, and made a large floating area in my 10 gal for Ninja. I sawed and glued a bunch of the mini float tanks together to create something that was shallow but wide so that he had room to swim about, but could also stay close to the surface. He was so happy being moved from the tiny float tank to his much bigger environment! While he still enjoyed sitting on the leaves of the plants I put in with him, he also took time to swim/wriggle back and forth and seemed to enjoy watching the rasboras swim by his tank.

Anyway, I'd long given up hope of him recovering from his SBD, but today when I came downstairs he was keeping himself off the bottom, could control his depth, and could swim back and forth with no problem at all!

I have no idea what changed, as he has had this problem for over two months. I suspect that maybe being in the right environment (no stress to get to the surface for air/food, but room to swim) gave him the ability to take time and heal. But whatever it is, I'm so happy!

So firstly I wanted to say a massive thank you to everyone who gave me advice on how to create a good home for Ninja - I do believe that it was this that directly contributed to his recovery!

Secondly, I wanted to ask whether you guys think it's ok to take him out of the float tanks and put him back into the main tank again? It would make cleaning the tank so much easier, plus give him more space, but I'm a little worried about him relapsing.

Thanks all!


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## CollegeBettas (Feb 23, 2016)

I think you could move him back, but keep the float tank available if he does relapce. If he continually relapses, I would just leave him there.


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## Falcon (Jan 9, 2008)

_On the plus side, I've had him for about 18 months and he's never been a very active fish - even before this issue developed, he spent most of his time asleep on the floor of his tank or hiding._

the words normal water parameters means nothing to me. Can you give the numbers of the results of your tests. ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

High nitrate levels can cause stress on a fish and they tend to lie around a lot. which has been associated with nitrate poisoning symptoms.


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## Smumbles (Feb 23, 2014)

Hi Falcon

The water parameters are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Typically 10-20ppm depending on when I test (before or after water change) but I have gotten measurements that look between 20 and 40 at times.

Is that too high for bettas?


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## Smumbles (Feb 23, 2014)

Falcon said:


> High nitrate levels can cause stress on a fish and they tend to lie around a lot. which has been associated with nitrate poisoning symptoms.


Hi Falcon - sorry one more question about nitrates! I've never seen Ninja flare even once (and I've had him for over a year). I've held up mirrors to the glass and put in one of the floating mirrors (just for a few minutes a day, I've read that constant exposure to a mirror can be very stressful!) and he just swims away in a very timid way. I've always just assumed he was a gentle/timid soul (as I mentioned, he also spent most of his time hiding before he became ill), but could this be caused by nitrate poisoning as well? I'm suddenly incredibly worried that he's been suffering for ages without me realizing!

He was also the last of a batch from the local pet shop (all of the other tanks were empty, and he had been left there for ages, in very dirty water). Could this have caused permanent damage (from nitrates or even ammonia/nitrites as the tank he was in was definitely not cycled) that has led to this behaviour (not moving much, the SBD, the constant hiding)? He definitely had tattered fins and dull colours when he was in that environment (though those were quickly reversed once I got him home and into warm, clean water.)


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