# Fishless cycling for a betta fish... HELP!!!



## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

Hello Everyone! :wave:

Clearly, I am a newbie here. I have been roaming the internet for centuries now, & the stress of my betta fish is making my head ache!  Can someone PLEASE help me?!

I am currently attempting my first fishless cycle, & I am pretty impatient.

Info:
~ 5 gallon aquarium; Aqueon Mini Bow
~ built in filter ^
~ light hood; not on for cycling purposes
~ heater made for 2.5-5 gal tanks; constant 8.0 (°F)
~ got rid of Tetra Whisper Air Pump because it was too strong
~ no airstone, for obvious reasons ^
~ over an inch thick of gravel & purple acrylic jewels
~ baby java ferns strewn around the bottom of the aquarium
~ decor, such as pots and such
~ no beneficial bacteria available to seed :blueworry:

Water Parameters:
Ammonia - 4.0ppm
Nitrites - 0ppm :-(
NitrAtes - 5.0ppm
pH - 7.6

This fishless cycle has been going on for exactly a week now... NOTHING HAS CHANGED. :frustrated:
I mean, as soon as I added the ammonia, the next day the water was cloudy & had produced this disgusting film on the surface of the water that we are ALL (or most of us) are unfortunately familiar with...
& I had read in a different thread that it was a good sign --- beginning of the cycle! *silent cheer* :cheers:

The water has cleared up since then (thank the fish gods) & the nasty film is slowly breaking down. YAY! :welldone:

BUT, here's my real question(s):

1) When will my cycle finally DO SOMETHING???
2) How long will this whole process take? I'd hoped for 3-4 weeks!
3) I AM GOING ON VACATION IN 2 WEEKS (bad planning, obviously) - Should I just add my betta fish in early? Or what???
4) I was also thinking about adding an amano shrimp as well as a ghost shrimp to the tank (my betta fish is a chronic biter... cause highly unknown; decided it was boredom & that he needed friends PRONTO) Will THEY survive the cycle if added early?!
5) IF the cycle actually finishes in time (doubt it :shake what do I do??? Will one betta fish & two shrimp be enough to keep the cycle going?! :question:

That's all I can think of for now...

Thank you SO MUCH to people who are willing to respond right away! You do not know how much I will appreciate you!

Master fishkeepers --- Please WELCOME!!! :notworthy:

Greatest Gratitude,
Moi :thankyou:


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## battered (Dec 24, 2011)

Just have patience, the cycle should take care of itself if you let it run its course. 3-4 weeks is about right on the cycle time. 

Do you already have the betta - if so, how are you housing it? How are you planning to take care of the betta during your vacation? How long is your vacation? 

If your fish is a tail biter, I don't think adding a ghost and amano shrimp are going to help him in my experience at least. 

If your cycle finishes in time, yes, you can add the betta to the tank. By then, the cycle will be "over" and you'll have the BB you need.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

A really experienced lady (OldFishLady) told me that if you have just one betta in the tank, a fish-in cycle is perfectly fine as long as you can check the water params regularly and make the necessary water changes. No need to worry


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

battered said:


> Just have patience, the cycle should take care of itself if you let it run its course. 3-4 weeks is about right on the cycle time.
> 
> Do you already have the betta - if so, how are you housing it? How are you planning to take care of the betta during your vacation? How long is your vacation?
> 
> ...


battered, Thank you so much for replying! I don't how you guys find these posts so quickly! :-D

As for your question, I am currently housing my betta in a 1.5 gallon pet keeper from Petco... a little ashamed, I know, but that's why I bought him a new home! I do 100% water changes every week & he has a small little offshoot java fern inside there that he likes to rest on! :tongue: There's small rocks & marbles decorating the little tank bottom, & he has a plastic black tube in there that he ADORES & sleeps & hides in practically all day. 

I am actually going to Hawaii in 2 weeks, for 1 week! So I obviously cannot take him with me. (I really wish I could!) :-( I don't know anyone who will be in town & willing to take care of him, but his tank is cleaned every week so I'll just wash it before I leave, & he'll be good as new! As soon as cleaning time comes around again I'll be home for him. :thumbsup:

I'm hoping to purchase an Eheim Auto Fish Feeder since my very recent purchase fell in Bubba's water less than a day after "installing" it & well... that is a WHOLE 'NOTHER thread. Goodness! :roll: Just $20 or so flushed down the fish toilet. Bubba was saved, though, thank goodness.

I am so sorry for my long posts! I just seem to talk & type too much...

BTW, what's a "BB"...?

xoxo


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

Thank you, also, finnfinnfriend for replying! I am so happy!  So, while I'm gone for a week, one betta fish & two shrimp would be enough to take care of the beneficial bacteria?

If, let's say, that I don't add the fish before I leave, will the beneficial bacteria (whom have not showed up yet) die off, or will my tank stop cycling???

Another thing... since I can't really tag you guys in my posts besides "quoting" them, how else do you know I have replied it you?

Ahh, these forums confuse me! (^_^)


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

BubbiBubba said:


> BTW, what's a "BB"...?
> 
> xoxo


Beneficial Bacteria.
Your cycle is going well, and like the others said, just be patient.


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Since there's already ammonia in the tank I'd just leave it in there. Jack up the ammonia amount to around the 4.0ppm as you have it now. That should last a still cycling tank a week to go through. However if you do water changes and get the ammonia out of there and put the shrimp and betta in the tank, with PWCs up to your vacation it should be fine. The betta and shrimp will not die with just one week of no PWCs. I hope this helps!


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

AquaKai said:


> Beneficial Bacteria.
> Your cycle is going well, and like the others said, just be patient.


Oh my gosh, thank you! I can't stop thanking people! :lol: 

What should I do if the tank is not cycled by the time I leave? Should I just leave the 5gal tank untouched & keep Bubba in his small 1.5 gallon with an automatic fish feeder?

Like I said, his tank gets changed weekly anyway so he won't be harmed... but I'm scared that the process won't be ready! 

Can I risk putting him in early??


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

AquaKai said:


> Since there's already ammonia in the tank I'd just leave it in there. Jack up the ammonia amount to around the 4.0ppm as you have it now. That should last a still cycling tank a week to go through. However if you do water changes and get the ammonia out of there and put the shrimp and betta in the tank, with PWCs up to your vacation it should be fine. The betta and shrimp will not die with just one week of no PWCs. I hope this helps!


Amazing! You reply fast! :-D I am such a noob... what's "PWC"??? Post Weekly Changes?


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry! Partial Water Changes. When you have a tank with a cycled filter you don't have to do 100% changes all the time. Since all of my tanks are cycled I do a weekly 25-30% change on all of them. It gets rid of the nitrates that build up. And thanks! I try to stay as fast as I can, which is hard typing on a touch screen


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

BubbiBubba said:


> Amazing! You reply fast! :-D I am such a noob... what's "PWC"??? Post Weekly Changes?


PWC is "partial water changes" like not changing all the water but like 25-50% 

You can do fish in or fishless, either way is fine, but if you opt to do fish in make sure you take out all that ammonia you put in there first.

Too much ammonia in the water has a similar effect on fish as chlorine has on most people's eyes...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

For 5 gall i would do 50% water changes weekly if you have filter. And you will need to vacuum the gravel regularly. Filter media swish/rinse in the bucket of old tank water with a water change. It Oldfishlady recommendation but i don't know how often you have to take care of the filter since i don't have filters. 

If it really pain for you to cycle then you don't have to cycle. I don't cycle any of my tanks.

Before you leave make sure you change the water though.


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

*Update!!!*

Ammonia - 4.0ppm (getting closer to 2.0ppm shade, but not quite... it's dropping!) 
Nitrites - 2.0ppm (YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! FINALLY! :-D :welldone: :notworthy
NitrAtes - 5.0ppm
pH - 7.6

Thank you SO MUCH to everybody who gave me advice! Being patient really DID help!!! :lol:

My current cycling regimen is to add about 5 drops of ammonia every so often to keep the tank to about 2.0ppm (when that happens) & wait until nitrites keep rising (not more than 5.0ppm tho!) & ammonia keeps dropping.............. I'll wait until my nitrAtes get up to like 10-20ppm, and try to keep the pH at 7.6.........

Anyone else have some suggestions? I'm not too sure what to do once everything is 0 at the end of the cycle, or how to achieve that correctly!

Please do respond.

xoxo


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah that sounds good, although you can allow your nitrites to get past the 5.0ppm, I did and it didn't effect the cycling at all. Just keep adding ammonia to the 2.0ppm and it goes all the way through to nitrates in one day. Once at zero do a big PWC to get the nitrates to the >5ppm area. Then put in the fish and let it go! Oh, but you're going to want to keep doing PWCs every week;-) not that you didn't know that already!


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

AquaKai, thank you sooo much for replying! It sucks when people just leave you hanging! ;-) & alright, I'll keep that in mind!

Do you by any chance know how to remove that common murky film that produces on the surface of the tank water??? 

Everybody else just suggests paper towels, but they don't work for me & usually come back by the next day, anyways!

My filter must be too weak... ugh. Idk what to do. Will it clear up after the cycle???


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually I felt bad about not replying sooner, but I was out and didn't have internet access (yes I'm one of the few left without 3G and such. I stick to texting and calling)

I've had that happen to me as well, in both cycled and not cycled tanks. The only thing that I've done to get rid of it is have surface movement. Perhaps you could lower the water level so that the filter creates more movement or even get a air stone. Those are the only ways I've been able to get rid of it.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Bacteria like food, air, warmth and darkness. So.....

----Feed them 3.0/4.0 ppm ammonia

----Run a bubbler or get air into the flow somehow.

----Turn your heater all the way up. 90* is not too hot. 

---Cover it.

Do your daiy water test


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

the film that you talking about is fish oil and not going to hurt your betta. I have it too in some of my tanks. I try to take it aut with a spoon. Well it not really helps though ..it breakes on little white pieces. I do a lot of water changes so i don't care.

Once the nitrogen cycle is established make sure you do regular 50% water changes with gravel vacuuming to maintain water quality. Your tank is small i suggest to change the water 2 times a week. Well it just me i think clean water keep bettas healthy.

Sorry if i am repeating myself. I don't have filters but i know you have to swish/rinse them in the bucket of old tank water with a water change a couple of times a month- best to wait until the cycle is establish before you start this unless the water flow is compromised.

If you can, have your water tested at the pet shop weekly and once you have Nitrate 5-10ppm with ammonia,nitrite 0ppm-you are most likely cycled-this can take 4-6 weeks...

I am personally (sorry Hallyx) think 90* is to hot. Not all betta love 90* 78-80* is good temperature. 

Not sure if this link can help http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=99717 #8


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

I'll try my best to keep the bacteria growing! & ANHEL123, I'm doing the best I think I can so far, but still trying to improve! I hope my cycle is faster than 4-6 weeks!!!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh, sorry, BB. I almost forgot. I would not use a fishfeeder if you're only going to be gone a week. 

Betta can easily go a week without food.

Unmonitored feeding can produce a lot of ammonia from the excess poops and food fragments. In a newly cycled tank, this can be problematical. 

Probably OK, because a fishless cycle typically overproduces bacteria. But....


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

and i heard that fishfeeder fail sometimes. And if it is then water will be contaminated and can get fish bacterial infection. Especially if temperature is too warm. So a agree with Hallyx.


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

Once the tank is fully cycled, what is the up keep???

I am planning on adding a shrimp or two, waiting 24 hours, & then adding my betta fish finally.

I have no idea what to do after that! Is there certain way to keep the cycle going???

Thank you so much! I can't stop returning to this site & stressing!

Appreciating Everyone's Input,
xoxo


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Once your tank can reduce 2.0ppm ammonia to 0.0ppm in a day, you're cycled and can add shrimp, fish, anything within reason. 

From then on, one 50% change per week with light vacuuming is all you need to reduce DOCs (dissolved organic compounds that slip through your filter); to keep your nitrates down and to replenish minerals that your fish uses up.

Swish/rinse your filter foam in old tank water during a pwc every month or so to keep it from getting gummed up. 

Enjoy your fish, knowing he and his friends are living in the purest water you can provide.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

+ filter media swish/rinse in the backed of old water WITH water changes...


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks you guys, you're awesome! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

How do YOU guys do PWC's...? I'm supposed to turn off all the appliances first, right...? Or would that stall the cycle... hmmm. Fish keeping is HARD. Never expected this from my long journey of my Bubba impulse buy...


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

BubbiBubba said:


> How do YOU guys do PWC's...? I'm supposed to turn off all the appliances first, right...? Or would that stall the cycle... hmmm.


It's a good idea to turn everything off. That's where a power strip comes in handy. A clip on "trouble light" is a nice thing to have so you can see what you're doing.

It doesn't effect your cycle at all; there's not much bacteria in the water column.



BubbiBubba said:


> Fish keeping is HARD. Never expected this from my long journey of my Bubba impulse buy...


It gets easier, starting around now. ;-}

My first two fish were bought on impulse. Had I known then what I know now, I probably would not have done it. On the other hand, I'm sure glad I did.


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

*UPDATE*

SO. Maybe I'm an idiot, but here it goes:
My "FISHLESS" cycle isn't too fishless, because as of today, there are now a betta fish & 2 Amano shrimp residing in it.

Please don't yell at me! The tank has been cycling for over 3 weeks now, but it isn't fully cycled. I don't think the SECOND type of beneficial bacteria EVER showed up, because although the nitrAtes are coming up in tests, the nitrites never go down!

I am running out of time as I am leaving in two days, so I had to add in my fish a tad earlier than planned so I could see how things were going & monitor the progress of their health & the tank.

I added in the 2 Amano shrimp yesterday, acclimated them like usual, & set them free to explore & scurry around a bit before they would meet their new friend...

The next day (currently today) I acclimated Bubba & he is still swimming around calmly, probably enjoying the new warmth of his 80 degrees F home.......

I am worried about the water parameters while I am gone. Here it goes:

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrites - 2.0ppm
NitrAtes - 40ppm (YIKES, I know... I don't know what happened)
pH - 7.6

HELP!!! What do I do? I don't need to keep adding ammonia, right? My betta fish & shrimp can keep the cycling going?

& I keep doing PWCs but the Nitrites refuse to go anywhere & the NitrAtes are soaring! Like a random spike!

Professionals & knowledged hobbyists & keepers WELCOME.


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

***ALSO:

My bowfront tank came w/ those little carbon filters that say to replace them after 4-6 weeks or less or something like that.

What the heck?? If I actually followed that, I'd be swarmed in filter debt & the BB would be completely gone!

How do you guys deal w/ this situation?


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## mahi (Jul 20, 2012)

I can't answer your other questions, but I can give you my experience with the carbon filter.

My filter also has a compartment for those carbon pellets, but I just removed them. My have been stable the whole time. 

I do keep some carbon pellets stashed in case I ever have to remove some medication.


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## mahi (Jul 20, 2012)

Also, a reading of 2.0ppm for nitrites is very toxic for the fish! If I were you I would do a big water change (75%) immediately to get the nitrites down.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Forgive me if i am writing something stupid. I don't understand cycling . But as i remembered correctly you are living for 2 weeks. And your tank is 5 gall.
When i go on the vocation for 7 days i just change 100% of the water the day before i go . I do it for 5 gall and for 2.5 gall. So forgive me if i am writing something stupid since i don't understand cycling. But you worry so much and do so much so long it not worth it. Why just change water like many people do 100%?

I live my 2.5 & 5 gall for a week so i assume your tanks would be fine for 2 weeks. And when you come back you will need to change them. 

How about food?


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## BubbiBubba (Jul 8, 2012)

Sorry to keep adding onto this thread, guys, but I don't want to create an entirely different one to bother more folks about the same issue!

ANYWAY: If my betta fish DOES pass away at some point in his life (I hope not soon or there will always be tears regardless) what would I do?

His 5 gallon is fully cycled, but how can I keep dosing ammonia to keep the cycle continuing (before I add a new betta, of course) if there are 2 Amano shrimp in the tank?! They will surely die! & we all don't want that.

All help is greatly appreciated.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That is a really good question, BB.

But first, how did your vacation go and how are your stock and tank after two weeks?

I understand your question; I've been keeping a cycle going by ammonia dosing for e few weeks now waiting on a new Betta to be delivered. 

I think what I would have done if I'd had shrimp in the tank, is to put them in their own tank while maintaining the cycle by dosing.

Even though the shrimp could keep the cycle going, it would have been very weak. Adding stock might cause a mini-cycle. 

Anyway, it's not something your should have to worry about for a long time.


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