# Two Bettas in a cup!



## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

Was at the petstore yesterday when they opened up their Betta shipment and one of the cups had TWO bettas in it! The employees were mortified! The water was very yellow. Could that be from blood? Anyways, one of them had 50% of his fins ripped off and the other was a bit shredded as well. I went back today and the little guys were feisty and eating well. So glad one wasn't dead. Just wanted to share. The up side is I got first pick from the box and scored my gorgeous Matisse( my avatar).


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## Betta Slave (Dec 8, 2009)

That's the second two-bettas-in-one-cup incident this week! Really....
But Matisse is beautiful


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Two bettas in a cup... I WISH I could say that's some new news. But I've seen it before...ugh. Worst things ever. "Customers" definitely did that to them. I'm glad they're both fine! 

I think a betta's blood is red? Not sure. I've only read "if your betta has faced physical damage, look for any pinkish water, or red streaks from his scales." I'm assuming the "streaks" is the blood, and the "pinkish water" is diluted blood. But really, YELLOW water? Ugh. I'll take your word for it that they were mortified and actually had feelings for the poor critters. ~


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

BettaCee said:


> Was at the petstore yesterday when they opened up their Betta shipment and one of the cups had TWO bettas in it!


I don't think the customers did it this time. Also, beautiful boy you have there.


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

I saw them open the box. All of the other water was blue. In fact it was the tainted water that was noticed first. It stood out in the bunch. Perhaps it was a careless accident by the shipper when they "cuped" the fish for sale. I've seen the posts about the doubled up'd ones from Walmart. That probably was an evil customer's doing. I just can't understand people.


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

Thank you for the compliments, btw.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

JadeBetta, how come you don't think it was the customers thsi time?


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

BettaCee said that they saw them open their shipment of bettas.


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## Starbright (Apr 26, 2009)

Wow that's horrible. I mean who'se stupid enough to do that? :/

Your betta's beautiful by the way  I'm extremely jealous!


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Oh, that's entirely my bad. Must have missed that. I still don't understand the yellow water - anyone have a guess for that? It does make me feel better that customers didn't do it. However, makes me more interested in the back story.


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

IMO I think the people who shipped either didn't care or were in a hurry to ship them.


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## tanker (Mar 13, 2010)

Did they have lids on them? I saw two fish in together at the aquarium shop and the guy said that they sometimes jump over into the next-door's little bit of tank.


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## dipsydoodlenoodle (Mar 3, 2010)

Your fish is lovely


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## LotusRuin (Apr 22, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Oh, that's entirely my bad. Must have missed that. I still don't understand the yellow water - anyone have a guess for that? It does make me feel better that customers didn't do it. However, makes me more interested in the back story.


Ammonia or decayed food pellets would explain why the water was yellow. If you leave a fish bowl uncleaned the water will turn an orangey yellow. I think that the people handling the shipping are probably just dipping the small cups into a tank of fry to get the fish in a cup, and maybe sometimes they get two of them in the cup instead. It probably happens more often than we know, but my guess is that they kill each other before they're unpackaged, or [ugh] flushed because they don't have any selling qualities.


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## newfishmom (Mar 26, 2010)

L.O.V.E. your new betta!!! He is a looker! WOW.

It's good to hear that the employees sounded upset about what happened. At least they cared! Sad that it happened though.


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## kpullen89 (Feb 11, 2010)

Thats a crazy story! Poor bettas. By the way your new fish Matisse not only has a beautiful name but is GORGEOUS! I love the contrast of red and white. Sooo pretty


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

tanker said:


> Did they have lids on them? I saw two fish in together at the aquarium shop and the guy said that they sometimes jump over into the next-door's little bit of tank.


Yes, this does happen. I've seen it. 

It is quite possible that the fish jumped into the other cup while they were waiting for lids to be affixed to their cups. Some of those farms are shipping 500+ fish per day, so it would be easy for them to miss it. Somewhere out there, I'm sure there's an inexplicable "empty cup".


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

What are the "Fish Farms" like? Does anyone know? Ever seen one?


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

kpullen89 said:


> Thats a crazy story! Poor bettas. By the way your new fish Matisse not only has a beautiful name but is GORGEOUS! I love the contrast of red and white. Sooo pretty



Why Thank You! You've got a fine looking read and white little guy yourself!


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

i've seen this happen to two females at wal-mart i was sooo mad there were no cups left and no one around oh and nice new boy!


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

BettaCee said:


> What are the "Fish Farms" like? Does anyone know? Ever seen one?


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks! I went to the website and saw the rest of the pic's. Very interesting.


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## TeenyTinyTofu (Feb 7, 2010)

Jars with brown water... what a sad life for a fish.


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## BettaCee (Apr 21, 2010)

I think it's almond leaf home brew!


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## TeenyTinyTofu (Feb 7, 2010)

Could be, not sure why the water was brown. However, the small jars lining shelves bother me more than anything... especially for a fish whose native habitat looks like this...


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## bloo97 (Mar 6, 2010)

Poor Fish!


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## BerkB33 (Oct 23, 2009)

go to bcbetta.com or xmanbetta.com there are links to some Thai videos of betta farms. Youtube.com has many pics and videos. The video I saw showed a woman literally standing on the "betta containers" and using a hose and "wand" to change the water in about 15 "containers" at once. The "containers" looked to be about 6 oz. cups lined up as far as you could see...and she actually had to stand on the "containers" to reach every cup...crazy. They use concrete sewage pipe cut every 4 ft. for holding tanks. The pipe is just put on the ground, open at the top and bottom, filled with water and covered with corrugated roofing aluminum. The video I saw showed hundreds of those type "tanks" at one farm.


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

TeenyTinyTofu said:


> Could be, not sure why the water was brown. However, the small jars lining shelves bother me more than anything... especially for a fish whose native habitat looks like this...


It's really more like this:









Or this:










or this...










or even this...









http://www.ibcbettas.org/smp/images/imbellis/imbellis_habitat1.jpg


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## TeenyTinyTofu (Feb 7, 2010)

BerkB33 said:


> go to bcbetta.com or xmanbetta.com there are links to some Thai videos of betta farms. Youtube.com has many pics and videos. The video I saw showed a woman literally standing on the "betta containers" and using a hose and "wand" to change the water in about 15 "containers" at once. The "containers" looked to be about 6 oz. cups lined up as far as you could see...and she actually had to stand on the "containers" to reach every cup...crazy. They use concrete sewage pipe cut every 4 ft. for holding tanks. The pipe is just put on the ground, open at the top and bottom, filled with water and covered with corrugated roofing aluminum. The video I saw showed hundreds of those type "tanks" at one farm.


Yeah, I've seen those video's before too. Such sad living conditions for such a beautiful creature.


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

TeenyTinyTofu said:


> Yeah, I've seen those video's before too. Such sad living conditions for such a beautiful creature.


And that's why you get them for such little money! The best breeders are MUCH more attentive, and this is why they are selling fish for $25+ apiece. Once the market for $2 bettas dries up, the mass-production farms will be out of business.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

The coloring of the farms are natural. Believe it or not, those waters are usually quite clean. It is "simply" the soil and flying debri, etc. It's much cleaner than you'd imagine looking at brown-murky-algae'd-water. Of course, it is not absolutely perfect.

As for the tanks - yes, it's sad, however let's compare it to here (I'm in the US). It's noticeably larger. And the main difference - they sell so quickly. More successful farms are having to buy from OTHERS to simply keep up with demand. They sell very quickly and I always see different ones when I go visit the farms daily.

The dry season is pretty bad, because it's ... dry. However, during the wet season, when it rains SO much, the water stays "dirty looking" but the fresh rain water does make it beautifully cleaner. 

However this is all in Vietnam, in the areas where I've actually been. It's possibly other conditions are different, either worse / better. And the jars are either glass, or something equally strong - they can effortlessly support a woman's weight (I've seen the video too). 

Mister Sparkle, I believe both are "typical" homes. I've only seen the ones you posted, however my cousins (who have this community going on, with ACRES AND ACRES of water/land) have seen wild betta in those acres and acres of land. I may be exaggerating on size, but the point is there, no? 

Just wanted to clear some negativity up


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh, yes...I agree with you, xxabc! 

Bettas occur in all sorts of places. 

One thing that the farms in the immediate area can do that we can't...provide the perfect temps and the same water that the fish are used to. 

I'm just getting a little tired of hearing people knock the GOOD breeders for "conditions," without recognizing the irony...we buy fish who have been shipped halfway around the world, put them in conditioned tap water with artificial heat, with really no real evidence that they are better off (no matter HOW much we want to see our conditions as being "better")! The almond leaf thing is a good example of that. The fish on those shelves (and that is a pretty good breeder you saw there) are a heck of a lot better off there than any of us can really hope to give them here!.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

That's why they're very popular in Thailand - or at least, buying from Thailand. The conditions are wonderful, and plus that is their JOB... to farm bettas. 24/7 dedication, and they definitely know how to breed. 

ANd I would never bash any breeder (I know you're not referring to me, I'm just taking a mention)! Well, any _good_ breeder. The 1/2 gallons are fine, usually they are dedicated in their water change, or the wondeful: DRIP SYSTEM! And it's not permanent housing either. Plus we know they're highly experienced with bettas if they've gone so far as to successfuly spawned so many bettas. I have no problem with breeders, and the "conditions." They do everything right, and their bettas go off into larger homes anyway. 


I met a breeder that told me: "If one of my bettas do not sell after a long time, I keep him/her for myself and bring her into a larger home." 

In one breeding farm I visited, the bettas were so lively. They flare at each other often - I have yet to see a betta that actually was SULKING... it's like having a divided tank. With plexiglass. And they have great access to the almond leaves, which is why their tanks are actually what I consider - "a beautiful brown." Hahaha~


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

How sad!! I hate when people do that. 

Your new boy is soooo pretty. I want him! LOL


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## BerkB33 (Oct 23, 2009)

Mister Sparkle said:


> Oh, yes...I agree with you, xxabc!
> 
> Bettas occur in all sorts of places.
> 
> ...


In betta breeding, as in ALL of life, there are good breeders and there are bad breeders. There are good LFS, and there are bad LFS. Mr. S, apparently you enjoy fish keeping by collecting the "nicer" bettas from the "good" breeders...others enjoy the fish the way they ARE ABLE. This intails doing and spending as the budget allows. I look at it like a life is a life...we hobbyists have made the decision to participate in this venture, purchase these animals, no matter what the animals price tag, and IMO, we should accept this responsibility and provide the best home possible. And in the opinion of many here, size of environment (tank) has an influence on that responsibility. Grant you, the "good" breeders undoubtedly can provide the animal with conditions that are very good...and most assuredly better than 99% of the "betta buyers" out there...however, this group, it appears, falls in to the 1% that can and does provide the most "optimum" living conditions they can afford. And in the majority of cases, they succeed! 

BTW, the "shoddy" breeders from Thailand and the like, all have websites advertising their +$25.00 models too! The point: There are "so-called" high dollar breeders that aren't "careful." Just cause the fish are high priced doesn't mean the animal's care is high quality! Because a doctor goes to Harvard doesn't neccessarily make him a good doctor!


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

Berk, the crux of my message was that, regardless of the condtions we provide, we are already at a major disadvantage considering that we can't possibly give them the most ideal temps, water chemistry, and they have to travel an ungodly distance to reach us...even the top-bred specimens. A jar within a stone's throw of a betta's natural habitat is capable of providing a level of precision that we just won't be able to match through the artificial means at our disposal. It's not about me or you, not about whether that's a $2 or $50 betta.


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## Tinthalas Tigris (Jan 28, 2010)

there is a terrible, terrible 2 girls 1 cup reference here . . . i'm just sayin'.


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## prettyfishy312 (Apr 18, 2010)

WOW, what a BEAUTIFUL boy you got there!!! That's terrible how they would stick two in a cup


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## BerkB33 (Oct 23, 2009)

Mister Sparkle said:


> Berk, the crux of my message was that, regardless of the condtions we provide, we are already at a major disadvantage considering that we can't possibly give them the most ideal temps, water chemistry, and they have to travel an ungodly distance to reach us...even the top-bred specimens. A jar within a stone's throw of a betta's natural habitat is capable of providing a level of precision that we just won't be able to match through the artificial means at our disposal. It's not about me or you, not about whether that's a $2 or $50 betta.


Yeah, I get 'cha. the "conditions" the breeder has, with the water, climate, temps. and all, can provide the animal with conditions that are more "optimal" for their needs, then we, the hobbyist, are able to. I guess my "crux" is to go one more step toward the animal's condition in nature. Give the little poops more damn room. Dogs can't spend their life in the kennel, Horses can't be in the stall 24/7, and bettas shouldn't have to live in 6 sq. in. Isn't that a fair statement? I think you and I have the animal's welfare at heart...we're just not getting OUR verbage across like we mean to! You are a very knowledgable guy in this subject, and I DO NOT question any information you've shared...and I understand that the fish can and does live in very small spaces given all his other health parameters are met...It's simply that I feel it inhumane to be forced to live in such cramped conditions...as a lot of the bettas do. Just give them more room! You know? LOL.


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

Berk, as long as we understand that the "natural habitat" is more often than not going to be less than 5-inch-deep stagnant and murky water, then we can both realize that our own success, or lack thereof, is most likely attributed to elimation of toxins from the water, adequate hiding places, protection from dangerous bacteria/parasites, and proper nutrition. 

I'm not knocking your way in the least. But I hope you can come to understand that I, and many other very competent betta-keepers, get kicked around a lot in forums. Whenever I may seem to react overly strongly to something you say, it is really an overreaction based on experiences with many others who are much more "high-and-mighty" about it. I'll try to keep my sensitivity to a minimum if you'll be so kind as to refrain from equating my style of fishkeeping (which I've worked very hard at becoming proficient at performing well) with a form of cruelty. 

Look, when it comes to the noobs, I agree that they wouldn't be very likely to succeed if they tried to emulate my way. But my fish are very happy, indeed. It isn't like keeping a dog in a kennel...it's like keeping a dog in a 1/4-acre yard with lots of games of fetch, as opposed to giving him a 4-acre lot in which to amuse himself. 

This is a cruel "home"...









But this is not so much the same thing...










You know?


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## Sella (Mar 21, 2010)

Mister Sparkley what makes the second pictures a bad home is the ugly doily on top!


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## BerkB33 (Oct 23, 2009)

So...your stance is that betta in the pickle jar...nice doily, too...is living as "optimal" a life as a betta (given all other parameters are good) in say a 5 gallon tank? Remember...ALL other parameters are met...water quality, hiding places, etc. BTW, not buying the dog on 4 acres isn't living a more "optimal" life than the dog in the kennel!!!! And I'm sure you are a VERY good betta keeper...you're certainly knowledgable on the subject and are very well spoken (written). It is a very difficult "pill to swallow" that ANY animal isn't "happier" with more space in which to live! But...ok...you know what you're talking about on all the other stuff...I'll give you this one. LOL. But you don't care if I keep MY bettas in somethin' a little bigger, right? LOL.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I think he said before that it really ticks him when someone says "1/2 gallons are *CRUEL*! Get a new tank!" And from there, he's shining a different light with 1/2 gallons, or "smaller" tanks. Or at least thats one aspect of it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You need to remember that the lovely long finned Betta we keep are "man made" and have never seen their natural habitat. So IMO it is not fair to compare the domesticated Betta with its wild brother.

Being man made, they no longer have the ability to move like their wild brothers, with the long fins and added weight often the larger aquariums and filtration can make it difficult to swim. 
Due to how they are raised- in very small container their muscles are not very strong and they feel secure in the small enclosure due to that being all they know.

Often, some, not all domesticated Betta will stress in larger aquariums until they get acclimated to the larger size and they also need time to build muscle to swim, some, not all will never acclimate to the larger tank and will become depressed, drop fins, tail bite, become lethargic, appetite loss, ich and other pathogen/parasite due to lower immune response secondary to depression.

You also need to understand that the "little cups" that the Betta are housed in are meant to be temporary, same as with the other fish in over-crowed tanks for sale in pet shop, thats not ideal either for long term housing.

Experienced fish keeper that have a good understanding of water quality can and do keep Bettas in smaller containers without issue due to their knowledge base.

IMO/E this is in NO way cruel or inhumane, this domesticated species can actually benefit from being kept in 1g containers in some cases when provided with proper care.

When a Betta is kept in a larger tank without proper care or in stressful conditions from poor choice of tank mates or a small tank with proper care...which is better?

Smaller containers can be less stressful, less tiring and can help in keeping their long fins intact, being a territorial fish they like being alone unless they are spawning and then once spawning is completed they run the female off, this species is not social........However, they do tend to enjoy socializing with us...the fish keeper.......


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## BerkB33 (Oct 23, 2009)

Given the identical water quality, temperatures, and ALL other parameters are met. Is it BEST, MOST OPTIMAL for a betta fish to be kept in a small (1 gallon or less) "container, tank, whatever" or is it BEST, MOST OPTIMAL for the fish to be housed in a "container, tank, whatever" (2 gallons plus) that accomodates the fish with more area to swim, explore, whatever? What's best for the betta? Is there a definitive answer?

Should this be it's OWN thread? Then we could hear from EVERYBODY.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I think everyone can already tell there shall _never_ be a DEFINITIVE answer when it comes to size. 

The water clarity like params, water changes, etc etc etc, should be the very first step. But the _very next step_ for me is upping-the size.


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## ecoprincess (Jul 16, 2009)

xxabc said:


> I think everyone can already tell there shall _never_ be a DEFINITIVE answer when it comes to size.


AHH yes the age old question.....

i think the RIGHT answer has something to do with "the motion of the ocean"
:-D

I dunno .... -shrugs- i could be wrong (LOL)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sella said:


> Mister Sparkley what makes the second pictures a bad home is the ugly doily on top!


I think it is kinda clever, allows air flow and keep the fish safe from jumping out.....but thats me...my opinion only.....


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

But Oldfishlady, how does it LOOK? Haha. Technically it's pretty clever. But it's not ... so ... attractive. For me, anyways, haha. Just an opinion as well.


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## Kittles (Feb 8, 2010)

I think it's nice.


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## MozartOwner (Apr 20, 2010)

Not to be a loser, noob, or whatever, but I like to think that whether the tank I provide for my Betta, better or worse than natural habitats I'd like to think that love makes it worth it for the Betta. I know, very geeky of me, but that's why we are all on the site right? Just thought I'd put that out there.

I love the color of your Betta, I wonder if his/her personality reflects his/her color


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree.If you love your pets then you'll take the best care that you can of them, no matter what size container theyre in. I think they know when they are loved and they respond to that. I don't think you're being geeky at all. lol


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