# Bulging eyes/Red Blister (Picture included)



## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi guys,

My girlfriend's betta Percy is not doing so hot.


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

I attached the picture and as you can see, he has that blister/boil on his eye. Went to Petsmart last week and we described what he had (the eye was not as bad) and they said fin rot since his fins were frayed. We got Bettafix and Melafix. Does anyone know what is wrong and why he is not getting any better? Needless to say, we're both upset, we just want our little fishy to be OK again. PLEASE HELP!!


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Links in case people don't scroll down for pictures:

http://tinypic.com/r/15fpx0w/5

http://tinypic.com/r/2rbyyaq/5

We've also gotten Seachem Prime to get rid of the ammonia in his water (since the level was too high). We've been giving him treatment for about a week now, and while he seems to be doing better, his eyes are worse.

We were kind of ignorant about all the little details that go into this, so we have gotten the Animal Planet Betta Care book and just want our little fella to be ok and I really don't want him to die. Any tips at all will be appreciated.


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Sorry, I might be missing something, I am not seeing any pictures. Also please fill out the sticky below as detail as you can.....

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)? 

Cheers!


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Another attempt at attaching the pictures, here's a link. Does this work?

http://tinypic.com/r/15fpx0w/5

http://tinypic.com/r/2rbyyaq/5


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

earthworm88 said:


> Sorry, I might be missing something, I am not seeing any pictures. Also please fill out the sticky below as detail as you can.....
> 
> Housing
> What size is your tank? 5 gallon
> ...



Thank you!!!


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Thanks! I see the photos now. What amazing color! 

I am sorry, this is out of my realm of knowledge, it is best if you PM OFL, Darkmoon, Sakura, Callistra etc for immediate help. From what I can see, looks like there may be internal infection in the head pushing the fluid out through the sockets toward the eyeballs. (aka pop-eyed) Since this is a symptom, we need to find the underlying cause of this problem. I don't think Bettafix or Melafix is going to fix this. Also as a general rule here, we usually do not recommend trying to treat our bettas with the "-fix" medicines due to its possible effect of labyrinth organ damage. My take on this is better be safe than sorry. Normally I would recommend epsom salt for pop-eyed to buy some time while figuring out the possible cause and treatment plan. 

Questions regarding your sticky:
Did you attempt to cycle your tank? Do you also check for nitrites and nitrates? I think the water changing schedule needs to be reconsidered once we establish whether you want to cycle your tank or not. Hopefully the experts will come along and give you more advice on this. Is it possible to raise the temp to at least 78F? In the meantime I will do some research on this. Hopefully this will also bump your post up, except now it's quiet time in the west. 

Cheers!


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

You will probably need to treat him with epsom salt. That is generally prescribed for pop eye. I must say... that looks absolutely frightening! IT is quite possible he could loose eyesight or even the eye(s). I won't suggest doing anything for now, but as earthworm suggested, contact Oldfishlady (I suspect she will be on before Sakura).


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

earthworm88 said:


> Thanks! I see the photos now. What amazing color! .
> 
> Questions regarding your sticky:
> Did you attempt to cycle your tank?
> ...


Thank you very much for your help!


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Silverfang said:


> You will probably need to treat him with epsom salt. That is generally prescribed for pop eye. I must say... that looks absolutely frightening! IT is quite possible he could loose eyesight or even the eye(s). I won't suggest doing anything for now, but as earthworm suggested, contact Oldfishlady (I suspect she will be on before Sakura).


Is there a preferred brand of epsom salt? And do you know how much, I've heard anywhere from 1 to 3 teaspoons per gallon. We're going to be putting him in a 1 gallon tank until he's better.


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Ok. If you are changing water 100%, that means you did not attempt to cycle your tank. Cycling just means you will be depending on your filter, fish, waste, good bacterial, live plants if any to help keep the water chemistry balanced and only do intermittent partial water changes (amount determined by the water parameters you get) etc, so that you don't have to change 100% every week. 

Ok. Move him to a 1 gallon hospital tank for now for ease of water change etc. Something smaller may be better if you need to float the container in his tank that has the heater on it. Yes, for now just keep the temp at around 78-79. 

Start on the epsom salt immediately. Doesn't matter what brand, make sure it's unscented and no color added. Should be able to find it at grocery store or pharmacy. For now, add 1 tsp of ES to 1 gal of preconditioned same temp water, dissolve, then leave your betta in there. At 12 hour, make it to 2 tsp/gal dosage and by 24 hour, should have a total of 3 tsp ES/1 gal dosage for the sake of slowly acclimating him to the max dose. 

Hopefully the experts will come along soon to give advice. I am sorry I am not much help. I still suggest PM OFL or Sakura soon. Do you have easy access to antibiotics at your LFS near by? If you are going to buy epsom salt, I think it is best to have an idea if your LFS stock any of the meds: API Tetracycline, API Fungus Cure, API General Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR Mardel’s Maracyn or Seachem Kanaplex so you will know where to go if medication is required. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would get him in a small QT that can be floated in the heated tank to maintain temp in the 77-78F range and start him on Epsom salt (not aquarium salt) tannins and water changes for 14-20 days.....

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and a tannin source if you have one-either IAL or dried Oak leaf-let this water steep for 30min and use for 25% water changes every 15min for 1hour today-he needs to stay in this water in the QT for the duration of the treatment-be sure and attach the QT to the side of the heated tank so it doesn't sink...

Tomorrow start 50% daily water changes with this premixed treatment water-this water should look darker today as the tannins release.....get on a schedule of 3 days 50% with 1-100% on day 4-repeat this water change schedule with the treatment water for 14-20 days....

It can take 7-10 days to see improvement in the edema of the eye and since it was one eye...correct....it was most likely an injury and a secondary infection has set in

Nutrition is really important-offer food daily and if you have access to mosquito larva offer some rinsed several times a day

Good luck and keep us posted.....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> I would get him in a small QT that can be floated in the heated tank to maintain temp in the 77-78F range and start him on Epsom salt (not aquarium salt) tannins and water changes for 14-20 days.....
> 
> Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and a tannin source if you have one-either IAL or dried Oak leaf-let this water steep for 30min and use for 25% water changes every 15min for 1hour today-he needs to stay in this water in the QT for the duration of the treatment-be sure and attach the QT to the side of the heated tank so it doesn't sink...
> 
> ...


It's actually both eyes, my gf just took a picture from the same side twice since he was facing her. Where can I get the IAL? Will my grocery store have it? And we have two 1 gallon tanks (my gf just bought the 2nd one), so we were going to alternate between the 2 gallons each day to keep him healthy. Is this a bad idea?

Thank you for your advice!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If you bought him in one of those small temporary cups with a lid-these work great for a QT and it is small enough to float/attached in a heated tank to maintain temp...

IAL or Indian almond leaf-usually you have to order this online

I use Oak leaf from my Oak trees in my yard....if you have access to pesticide free Oak trees-gather 18-20 naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf-crush and add to the premixed jug of dechlorinated with and Epsom salt


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> If you bought him in one of those small temporary cups with a lid-these work great for a QT and it is small enough to float/attached in a heated tank to maintain temp...
> 
> IAL or Indian almond leaf-usually you have to order this online
> 
> I use Oak leaf from my Oak trees in my yard....if you have access to pesticide free Oak trees-gather 18-20 naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf-crush and add to the premixed jug of dechlorinated with and Epsom salt


Do you have a preferred website? I'll buy the IAL but want to make sure it's the good stuff lol.

As for the cycling, do I completely empty out the water and then replace it? I just don't want to stress the little guy and want to make sure I am following your instructions correctly.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't use IAL but I want to say most member go to e-bay....

You don't need to worry about cycling while he is in QT for treatment


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok I found a seller on e-bay with great reviews for the IAL leaves. Do you know how many I should get? 50? 100?

sorry for bothering you so much lol.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

No worries.....

The number is up to you.....depending on how many Bettas you have, what your long term plans are...etc.....the IAL will last a long time on the shelf as long as they don't get wet.....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

We just have the one little guy, I'll get the 50 since I think it will be more than enough to last while he heals? 

After that I can order more, I just wanna get him enough to help him heal at first. 

Thank you again for your help, and thank you to earthworm88, you have both been a great help!!


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

You are in great hand now, holden147. Sorry I haven't been able to help much. Hope your little guy will have a speedy recover. 
Good luck and keep us posted!


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

I have ordered the IALs and they should be here in a few days. Do I mix 50% IAL water with 50% regular dechlorinated water? Im just confused to exactly what to do with the leaf water. Thank you!


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

earthworm88 said:


> You are in great hand now, holden147. Sorry I haven't been able to help much. Hope your little guy will have a speedy recover.
> Good luck and keep us posted!


You were extremely helpful thank you for everything!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Once you get the IAL-crush one up and add it to the premixed jug of dechlorinated water and Epsom salt and let it steep for 30min or so to start releasing the tannins-then use that water for 25% water changes every 15min for 1hour to get him acclimated to the new chemistry...you can also add a piece of the dry leaf to the QT....

The longer the tannin source steeps the more tannins released the darker the water the better.....

I would go ahead and get him started on the Epsom salt now and not wait on the IAL....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Once you get the IAL-crush one up and add it to the premixed jug of dechlorinated water and Epsom salt and let it steep for 30min or so to start releasing the tannins-then use that water for 25% water changes every 15min for 1hour to get him acclimated to the new chemistry...you can also add a piece of the dry leaf to the QT....
> 
> The longer the tannin source steeps the more tannins released the darker the water the better.....
> 
> I would go ahead and get him started on the Epsom salt now and not wait on the IAL....


Thank you for explaining. And yeah, the little fella has been in the epsom all day. I figured it's a good 1st step while I wait for the tannin.


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Great news, after roughly 12 hours in the epsom salt, the little guy is doing VISIBLY BETTER. I will take a picture tomorrow because I don't wanna stress him tonight. In short, the big bubble has shrunk by about 50-60% and the smaller one is now practically gone. So happy. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

holden147 said:


> Great news, after roughly 12 hours in the epsom salt, the little guy is doing VISIBLY BETTER. I will take a picture tomorrow because I don't wanna stress him tonight. In short, the big bubble has shrunk by about 50-60% and the smaller one is now practically gone. So happy. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


That is indeed good news! Hopefully he will be back to his normal soon! 
Keep up the good work.
Cheers!


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

phew, glad to hear he's doing better!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Awesome....your doing a great job.......


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok so his eyes are 99% back to normal! Thanks for the help guys, I think he'll be ok. I got the IAL today and put it in slowly over the course of a couple hours so I think this will be the trick to get him back to normal. He mostly just rests on his leaves and swims around a little. I feel like he's training lol.

2 things..

1) He does these weird little barrel rolls every now and then..is this normal? He's been doing it for a week or so

2) He still won't eat. It's been about 10 days to 2 weeks since he last ate is this normal?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Good to hear his eye is better.....

Have you tried different food, lacing food with fresh crushed garlic juice-do you have access to live food like mosquito larva to offer-sometime live food will stimulate hunting feeding instinct....

Can you post a video of the barrel roll....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Here is the little guy doing the rolls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPZ0yEinBfM&feature=youtu.be

It's almost like he knew what I wanted him to do and was showing everyone lol. Love my little fella.


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Good to hear his eye is better.....
> 
> Have you tried different food, lacing food with fresh crushed garlic juice-do you have access to live food like mosquito larva to offer-sometime live food will stimulate hunting feeding instinct....
> 
> Can you post a video of the barrel roll....


Once again, thank you for your help.

I've tried pellets and flakes, but no mosquito larva (I live in Ohio and we just had a blizzard so I'm not sure where I could even find it?). And I can look for some garlic juice - maybe Giant Eagle will have it. Does brine shrimp count as a good substitue? I feel like I could get that at Petsmart. 

As you can see in the video, his eyes are back to normal, so I feel like he's making progress, I just want him back to the happy, energetic Perseus I love.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Oh my......how long has he been doing that......sadly, that is either a death roll, hypoxia or CNS (_central nervous system_) related due to damage or parasites that has infected the CNS...sometimes it can be nitrite but usually the gill flap will be sticking out and gills will look brown....what kind of additive are in the water and what is the water temp....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Oh my......how long has he been doing that......sadly, that is either a death roll, hypoxia or CNS (_central nervous system_) related due to damage or parasites that has infected the CNS...sometimes it can be nitrite but usually the gill flap will be sticking out and gills will look brown....what kind of additive are in the water and what is the water temp....


He's been doing that for a couple weeks now (Since we first noticed he's sick).

His water temp is about 79 degrees. His water contains the IAL leaves (started yesterday) and Seachem Prime as well as 3 tsps of Epsom Salt (we have two 1 gallon tanks so we just switch him everyday). I make sure the water is pre-treated and everything. The ammonia levels are fine. I just don't know what else to do for him.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

In that case...it may be CNS related-parasite or even a tumor on the brain or spinal cord....if he seems to be suffering you may need to do what is right by him-not a lot can be done short of taking him to a vet and even then treatment would be limited...sorry I couldn't be of more help.....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> In that case...it may be CNS related-parasite or even a tumor on the brain or spinal cord....if he seems to be suffering you may need to do what is right by him-not a lot can be done short of taking him to a vet and even then treatment would be limited...sorry I couldn't be of more help.....


It's ok. Thank you very much for your help. He doesn't seem to be suffering, just seems very lathargic. So, in your opinion, this is the end?

What's the best way to..end it? I heard clove oil works.

This sucks.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The most humane method is often the hardest for some hobbyist-that being decapitation with a sharp knife or destruction of the head with a hammer or heavy object while the fish is wrapped in paper.

Another method is to freeze them-I like to start with cold water in a small solid colored disposable container like a plastic cup or tin can-using foil as a lid-I place the fish in the ice cold water, cover quickly and place in the freezer-not checking on them for 24h-then properly disposing of everything by either bury, burn or place in the trash...

When the fish is placed in the ice cold water they go into shock and usually will die within seconds-its fast and as painless as death can be IMO-remembering that due to limited perception of fish in not being able to feel pain the way we do-
Sometimes we still need to do things that make us feel better about it so we can sleep at night...and nothing wrong with that...we are human with the ability to feel empathy for other living creatures regardless if they can feel or perceive it or not....


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## holden147 (Feb 7, 2012)

Well at about 6:30pm Perseus passed on. I used the clove oil method. He slowly drifted off to sleep and I let him rest there. Boiled some water and he was gone. I've read that it's instant and he didn't jerk around or anything so I think it was time. Thanks everyone for your help. I feel like we gave him a good life. Now onto the search for King Perseus II to fill the hole in our little fish tank. Thanks everyone.


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

holden147 said:


> Well at about 6:30pm Perseus passed on. I used the clove oil method. He slowly drifted off to sleep and I let him rest there. Boiled some water and he was gone. I've read that it's instant and he didn't jerk around or anything so I think it was time. Thanks everyone for your help. I feel like we gave him a good life. Now onto the search for King Perseus II to fill the hole in our little fish tank. Thanks everyone.


So sorry to hear your Perseus had passed on. You had done a great job with the advice OFL had given. Thank you for posting the video, I have never seen anything like that, and I learned something valuable today. Good luck with your next betta keeping experience! 

Cheers!


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