# OK... Saddle shaped color loss rimmed in black???



## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

*Treating With Kanaplex for Columnaris*

Housing 
*What size is your tank?* 20 Gallon Divided

*What temperature is your tank?* 81F

*Does your tank have a filter?* Yes

*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?* Yes
*
Is your tank heated?* Yes
*
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *Plants and another Betta on the other side of the divider

Food
*What type of food do you feed your betta fish?* SeaChem NutriDiet Betta 3 pellets 5x week, Frozen/Thawed Bloodworms/Mysis/Brine shimp 1x week, Fasting 1x week


Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change?* Weekly or more as parameters suggest

*What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?* 20-50% as parameters suggest

*What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?* Prime, Stability, Equilibrium, Liquid Ferts

Water Parameters:
*Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?*

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.0
Hardness: 150
Alkalinity: 180

Symptoms and Treatment
*How has your betta fish's appearance changed?* His Gill Cover is still stuck out, as it has been for about 2 weeks. Noticed TODAY that his color has turned extremely splotchy, color loss in 2 large areas, and general paleness overall that wasn't there before. Some loss of webbing in his fins.

*How has your betta fish's behavior changed?* His behavior still seems amazing. He's eating with a voracious appetite, he's active and hasn't had any change in behavior at all.

*When did you start noticing the symptoms?* Gill Cover 2 weeks ago, color change today

*Have you started treating your fish?* If so, how? Not Yet.

*Does your fish have any history of being ill? *Yes. 2 weeks ago I noticed his gill cover sticking out. Parameters were wonderful and his tank was clean, so he went into a hospital tank for a week and a half, treated originally with AQ salts, no change. Then treated with Stress Guard, no change. Treated with Para Guard, it went down a little, but stayed out. He had a total of 6 90 minute Paraguard Dips, and had been switched over to Epsom Salts when i started the Paraguard. Very little changes and a week and a half without getting worse, he went back to his home. He's been home for a week, and just today I noticed these color changes. 
*
How old is your fish (approximately)?* I've had him about 6 weeks, he was small at the time of adoption, and has grown a little bit, so I would assume he was 3 months at time of adoption? ish. I would guess between 4-6months

He looks like he might have like, chemical burns...?? I don't even know. The heater is on the OTHER side of the tank, so he can't have physically burned himself. The parameters are all 0, I just did a water change a few days ago and the tank is cycled. 

I just don't know what to do! Pandora, on the other side of the tank, shows NO signs of ANYTHING... I'm afraid I'm going to lose my boy! I thought he was getting better but he just took the turn for the worse even tho he's acting quite normal... No bloating. 

ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!! Saddle-type white patch/color loss also one in the anal fin and caudal near the body. He won't stop moving to get a CLEAR picture, but here soon I'm going to risk the stress and get him between some plastic wrap for 10 seconds to get a good picture. The areas of color loss have a black edge around it too, maybe body rot?? It's a speckled black.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Columnaris is known as the 'saddleback disease' because of lesions that appear on the back of the fish around the dorsal fin.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Columnaris is known as the 'saddleback disease' because of lesions that appear on the back of the fish around the dorsal fin.


sheeeeeeet.... Kanaplex??????

Here you can see the patch of color loss, and can see all the black around him too. Getting him out and being able to REALLY see him, I realized how much black he really has speckled on him.. there are 2 large white patches, tho its not fluffy or anything, the scales just lost color, as well as the part of the fin. There's a lot of black around the areas too, that are not part of his normal coloring.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Yup. It's columnaris... I'm going to treat both him and Pandora with Kanaplex. Should I treat the whole tank or am I going to have to toss out the substrate(Eco-complete sand), plants, and disinfect the whole tank with hot water and/or bleach etc??

HOW aggressive should I be treating right now????

Also, turn off my internal filters with the carbon and purigen? What about the airstone driven filter with Seachem Matrix, can i keep that running?

Do I need to turn UP the heat??


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to go about treating columnaris, as it's not a disease I have had any real experience with. 

I believe lowering the temperature is better with columnaris versus raising it as you would do for something like ich or velvet.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm researching every last bit that I can. Thank you for at least giving me something to go on... I was able to at least diagnose him which makes my task WAY easier... figuring out what's wrong is the most important step so THANK you so far for the information!!!


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

What I've read so far, it's removed with Carbon, and the SeaChem website says turn off chemical filtration. SO, filters are being turned off. 

It also says columnaris likes high oxygen, so my airpumps are getting turned off, too.

I'm also reading that Columnaris is treated best with Nitrofurazone/Kanamycin combination, so I'll be getting Furan 2 tomorrow to treat the tank along with the Kanaplex. It also suggests AQ salt as the columnaris can't live in saltwater conditions...


SO! Right now I'm going to shut off filters, and add the Kanaplex and AQ salt. Tomorrow I'll add in the Furan-2...

Anything else that can be suggested and information is DRAMATICALLY helpful!!


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

From your description of his behavior, he doesn't sound sick. Are you sure he's not marbling?


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Completely certain. This is not color change territory. After getting the suggestion and looking up other pictures and whatnot, I am 300% sure this is columnaris. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind at all.


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I was actually thinking marbling too. Columnaris usually looks woolly or cottony, which I'm not seeing.

If you're certain it's colunmaris I'm not going to challenge you, he's your boy and you can see a lot that we can't. Columnaris also isn't something to mess with, so I understand playing this one for caution. If antibitoics don't seem to make an impact though, update back with more pics and we can see what his status is.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I really want to believe it could just be color changing... but it doesn't look like typical color changing, and it happened OVERNIGHT, he was super splotchy.

If there was any doubt in my mind about it being Columnaris, its gone today. The white spot/lesions have grown, dramatically, and the webbing between his rays where it was, is being eaten away. 

The tank is back on the aeration, because the Furan says it works best that way. There is AQ salt, Furan, and Kanaplex in the tanks, the carbon was removed. I'm just trying to breath deep and hope he pulls thru ok.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry to hear that your suspicions have been confirmed. Hopefully you have caught it in time for treatment to work. I'll cross my fingers for you.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Thanks LBF... 
I'm treating it as thoroughly as I possibly can. Kanaplex went in last night. Furan 2 went in tonight. AQ Salt went in last night. I'm hopeful, since he's still mostly active and not acting too sick... But, that just makes him more like mommy... I can have strep throat with a dual ear infection and I'll go about my day like nothing's wrong... In fact, that's why I have partial hearing loss. As a baby-young child, my mom would never have any idea I had an ear infection cause I never said anything and just kept on going. I went in for a well baby check and Dr was like, 'she looks good, she's acting great, she's got so much energy!! Let's just check her ears and you're on your wa... Holy Cow is that infected I've never seen anything so bad wow oh wow the other side is worse... ' lol... So, my poor baby is just a tough little man like his Momma....


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

This morning, the progression seems to have slowed, again.

He went from looking normal to the massive lesions overnight. Treated with the Kanaplex, the next morning he was worse, but it wasn't as much of a spread. Treated with the Furan-2 since they're recommended to be used together, and it's slowed again, tho there is now some fin deteriorating on his pectorals.. Tonight the tank gets its second dose of Kanaplex and Furan-2 together, so hopefully, after that, he'll stay stable and then start to recover.

My fingers are crossed.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I think there's progress!!

The lesions aren't any smaller, but they're not bigger!! They had been growing rapidly, but that seems to have stopped, or at least slowed DRAMATICALLY... the fin deterioration seems to have slowed, too. His pectorals are super damaged, tho... 2 big holes in the middle, and the ends are ragged... It might be my imagination, but I think some of the black speckles around the lesions are gone... or the white just took over, who knows.

He was given some pellets soaked in garlic water and Kanaplex, and later this evening the tank will be treated with the second dose of Kanaplex and Furan-2. And I'll just sit here for the next few days, crossing my fingers and praying he makes it.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Methylene blue is particulary effective against coloumnaris. Columnaris is microscopic bacteria that is only visible because hundreds of them form colonies on the fish to eat it alive.. The mouth and back are usually the worst affected areas.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

AQ salt too. It hurts the bacteria. That with MB kills it. Depending on dosage, time length of when it works varies


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I have the FULL dose available of AQ salt in there, that's suggested (2 rounded tablespoons per 5gallons, and they were well rounded)

As well as the Kanaplex and the Furan-2.

I don't have any Meth Blue because it's incredibly hard to find in my area. I keep the Paraguard and Kanaplex on hand because the two of those work with most infections. I added the Furan2 because it's recommended to be used hand in hand with the Kanaplex for Columnaris..

I may or may not add the StressGuard too, to help with slime coat since it won't interact with other medications as long as they're not copper based... But right now the AQ salt, Kanaplex and Furan seem to be doing the job... 

If he stalls in progress at all tho, I'll be ordering Meth Blue from Amazon with as fast of shipping as humanly possible.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Good luck.. I had the misfortune of having two strains of coloumnaris in my tanks at the same time a few years ago. Since then, i have a huge bottle of meth blue and a giant bag of salt. LOL. Big enough to knock someone out if i were to pick it up and swing it. Meh its a terrible disease.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

comment removed.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm so incredibly curious as to what you said, Terri lol.

Lazarus seems to be improving. Now that I know to look for him in the tank without being AT the tank, I'm noticing him spending more time than usual at the bottom of his tank, not moving...

But the fin deterioration has stopped, the lesions have morphed into one that covers the entire back half of his body and into the anal fin... but it's mostly stopped growing. I'm feeling much more confident he's going to make it.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

Lol, Finn.....I was going to say that it looked it looked like marbling to me as well, but then I read the other posts you made about it definitely being columnaris, so my comment was pretty much moot! 
I need to remember to look for comments past that first page.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Lol... Gotcha.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

I blame the sinus headache I have had for the last three days. 
Sending good thoughts thst your boy keeps improving!


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Oh no! Bad sinuses! -scolds- 

You get better, too! 

Lazarus should be OK. Who knows. Maybe the gill cover was just injured, tho 3 weeks now it's been sticking out. And maybe its just marbling. And maybe the fun deterioration is unrelated? 

Maybe it's marbling and a different infection. But when you add in the swollen gill cover stuck out for 2 weeks before the color change, and then the color change huge, and overnight and spreading rapidly, and the thinning of fins and regression of the webbing between the rays... I just had to go hard or go home, I don't want to take ANY chances...

He's got SOMETHING. Maybe it was just well timed marbling with his gill cover that made me more paranoid.. Maybe. I dunno. He was already 'sick' and never fully improved and the color change happened so very fast and it looks very similar to several pictures of columnaris I found... I tried to treat originally as cautiously as possible but he never really improved so when he started going downhill again, I decided it was time to hit hard, just in case. I'm trying not to doubt myself, cause if it IS, and I pull treatment back, I might open him up to get way worse...


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Ok. Here are some updated pictures. It still is not the puffy cloud type columnaris, so either I caught it before it started to grow that way, or it really is just color change along with something else, but I saw this picture when I typed Betta Columnaris and several like it and it was very similar.










In person, it looked a little like that the first day, with just a teeny bit of fluff. The fluff has since gone away.

In the picture below, the blue circle shows where his webbing used to be where it's circled in red to its left. The three red circles show where the webbing got so thin that it's basically shredded... it STARTED in the middle of the webbing, as a hole "eaten" into it, and then worked it's way out so it's not just blown webbing. The yellow circle is circling a dark spot that has reformed on his scales. this side of his body and the other side are nearly identical in where the markings are showing up.









The small red circle shows the dark patch on the other side of him, and the large red circle is around the black speckling he didn't have before... The speckling is NOT stable, it's coming and going and moving around, but it's not like something crawling around or anything. They're just showing up and disappearing in areas.









General picture of him clamped and the color change









His gill cover stuck out (Like this 24/7 non stop)









Circle on the caudal and anal show where the fin has been deteriorating, and for all the areas, it started as a hole in the middle of the fin and worked its way OUT until it became a split. And some of the missing webbing on his pectorals, too.









The circle in the middle, on his body, shows how the scales are lifting up, almost like the scale has died and it's getting ready to flake off. It's not a pineconeing effect or anything, it looks more like a peeling sunburn but it hasn't gotten better or worse yet... It's stayed about that.









More circles of the webbing... 









So there's a lot more than just the color changes going on, and I don't know WTF is going on. There are markers of Columnaris and/or other infection, but there's also markers of just Marbling... I don't want to doubt my instincts but I'm beginning to... Grrrrrrrrrrr


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Whatever is wrong with Lazarus, It's getting worse even with treatment.

Last night was a 20% water change, per Furan-2's instructions, so there IS less medication in the tanks right now.. so maybe that's why it progressed... but his fins are looking a little more ragged, he's stopped using his pectoral completely on the side with the gill cover sticking out, he has the pectoral tucks up next to him and doesn't use it at all now, and he's officially getting lethargic.

There's 2 more days of the Furan-2 treatment left... and right now I don't even know if he'll make it 2 more days. I am NOT giving up on him, tho.

Right now I'm open to any and all suggestions...
A recap:

Gill cover stuck out for 3 weeks
White/color loss over entire back half of body, into fins
Ragged fins that had holes that spread to look like "blowouts"
Tiny black dots that appear and disappear. 
No longer using one Pectoral

*sigh* I just don't know what to do for him at this point. I thought about doing a 100% change, cleaning the tank to within and inch of its life, spraying the plants with a hydrogen peroxide mix to disinfect, replacing the substrate (its Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium sand, but it's also old and was going to be replaced eventually, anyways) and then trying some sort of general cure.. but I just don't know what to DO!


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

I am at a loss I have never seen this much going on, on one betta, I think we need the help of the Rererence Team at this point. It doesn't look like fin rot. I am hazarding a guess that it's possibly some kind of parasitic infection? I wish I could help with this.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I have like, 900 ideas in my head but no ONE diagnosis fits everything.. so there has to be 2 things going on... I'd feel better about calling the color change normal marbling if it weren't symmetrical on both sides... I mean it's not EXACTLY the same, not quite mirror image, but it's pretty darn close.. and to show up overnight, in the same general pattern on both sides...?? I want to think that's something internal... not marbling. 

I just... I'm so lost. He was rescued from some pretty bad conditions but he had been with me quite a while before he got sick, a few weeks... so while I doubt he picked anything up there, having a severely compromised immune system is completely understandable... My poor Lazarus..


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok I have fought this a few times, I used to try to fight it with kanaplex and furan and so on, and usually if it did clear up, it would come back like 1-2 weeks later, I have had much better luck with methylene blue or good old hydrogen peroxide, you can use it to treat the tank but the MB can stain everything so I would use it as a dip/bath for the fish, You can use the hydrogen peroxide to treat the tank like 1ml per gallon, it could mess with your cycle, but at this point you are facing a total tank teardown anyways, you can go up to 2ml per gallon and it will be safe for the fish, but as with all treatments keep a watchful eye on the little guy for signs of stress and so on.I would keep going with whichever med you are using as well


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Ohhh you can also swab HP right on the spots with a q-tip


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I have 3 days left of the 6 day cycle of Furan2... That's just enough time to get some Meth Blue delivered to me.

Should I keep treating the the Kanaplex after that, with Meth Blue dips? I have Paraguard and StressGuard too, the StressGuard can be used in conjunction with the Kanaplex, should I use those two together? And keep up with AQ salt or move to Epsom or Neither?


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

And thank you!!! I'm SOOOO sorry you had to deal with this first but your hands on knowledge is sooooooo appreciated!!!!!


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Keep using the furan, you can use the kanaplex with the MB dips.baths, paragaurd will most likely do nothing, I have never used stress gaurd, so no opinion, the epsom salt will do nothing for him, aq salt will do little to nothing, you can run and get HP from anywhere until you get the MB, I have had limited results with fungs guard and lifeguard tablets, but the MB will be the best treatment followed by the HP


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

If my BF gave me permission, I would kiss you right now.. lol.

Ok. So keep the Furan2 running in the tank. Do MB and Kanaplex dips or keep running the Kanaplex and Furan in the tank, with MB dips? When Furan and Kanaplex run the course, treat the tank with HP and continue MB dips, keeping an eye out for stress.

*is super determined to get him well* I will not quit on him! :-D


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

AH, even tho Pandora hasn't shown any signs, I've been treating him in the tank as well since it's a divided tank... Should I continue to treat him too, or since he's showing NO signs of anything, remove him and QT him, unmedicated and wait to see if he starts showing signs, or do you think being treated currently was enough to keep him from picking it up? Or do dips and everything for him too to be on the safe side? I can move him into his own tank at any moment.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I never give up if they are fighting I will fight with them, I would dose the tank with kanaplex, and do the MB dips/baths once or twice a day, the HP you can use in the tank as well,I would do the MB dips/baths for a week after you think he is better, this sickness seems to reinfect a fish easily, or it just might think they are "cured" but they are not fully cured, I do not want to get your hopes too far up, this is a hard one to fight and win, let me look for a website with instructions on the dips/baths for you


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

If there is ANY hope, I will continue. Up until about, oh, 12 hours ago, he would still greet me at the front of the tank happy... If he's gonna fight, I'm gonna fight for him. That's what I'm here for.

I can't thank you enough but I know that this will have limited success, so I am, indeed, going into it cautiously with my heart, but with all my soul.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

OK here are 2 links, one about columnaris with how to fight it, then one more specific dip/bath instructions,http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html
it says you can add kanaplex with the dips


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

:yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Those holes in the fins look like pinholes to me, it happens from excessive flaring.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I keep my eye on here for when I see something seriously hard to fight and give what advise I can with the experience I have.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's fine Stone, I wasn't putting you down or anything, just giving what my opinion was is all.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

The other fish with no signs of sickness, will not be harmed by the meds, but it's never a good idea to expose them to meds when none is needed, I am a bit more old school when it comes to treating fish, with the dips/baths and only use antibiotics when I have too in conjunction with the dips baths, people were able to save their fish long before kanaplex and most of the antibiotics came around, so I am trusting more of those methods like pennies for fighting ich and all the stuff they used to do


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm confused on why you seem to be defending yourself Stone? No on attacked you, but all the same; why did you advocate the continuation of antibiotics if you're for baths first? lol, just doesn't seem a whole heck of a lot of sense to me but hey, it's all fine.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Lil- I agree, I thought they might have been from excessive flaring too, but Lazarus has excessive webbing, so even when he's at full flare, his webbing doesn't get very tight... I have no idea if that makes a difference in pinholes and excessive flaring or not. His fins might have just been weak from being sick so so a little flare was enough, but I don't want to discount it as a symptom if I'm not 100% sure it's not related, and simply for it's timing, I'm putting it in the symptom list, just in case.

Stone, Thank you again for all the help. I feel like I'm precariously treading water right now, but that's better than the straight up drowning I was at about an hour ago!!

I will continue Pandora's treatment in the tank for now, at least until the full 6 day course of Furan2, simply because I don't want to stop him in the middle of a dosage and maybe cause some backlash. When I go to do the water change on day 6, I'll pull him from the tank, put him in his own QT and keep an eye on him for awhile.

I also just ordered new Eco-Complete Substrate for that 20 gallon, since after all the treatment, I'll be stripping down the whole tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, it doesn't matter at all about his excessive webbing, it can still break if pulled the wrong way. It's all pretty delicate.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

For one did I say you were attacking me I posted what I posted before I even saw your post, I was not defending myself, YOU took what I said without knowing the facts as me defending myself and I ignored it till now, and as too clear up your confusion, once you start treating with meds, it is best to finish the cycle, I am not there to personally look at the fish, I can only go by what she is saying, I have MB on hand and will start there and then decide if antibiotics are needed, she on the other hand does not and has the antibiotics which will help the fish and give her time to get the MB, as with all fish disease time is the critical factor, the longer they go untreated the more likely the outcome will not be good, she is at the point of all hands on deck, hopefully this clears up your confusion as to why I stated what I stated, so hopefully it can make sense to you now, but hey it's all fine lol


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Very true, when put that way. I hope that's all it is. I'll keep a big ol eye on it all. With everything else, tho, I do feel that meth blue baths are the next step. He's been showing symptoms of SOMETHING for 3 weeks, and he's not getting any better, been trying several things and cautiously stepping up the medications... 

He had just the gill cover stuck out for most of the time, but in the last 4 days he's gotten several other symptoms all at once. It's possible that they're all unrelated, I won't deny that. But it's more likely that they're related, at least most are. My intuition is saying its something more, something more, even when I try to logically tell myself it could be several things... and sometimes I just gotta trust that, you know? 

I still appreciate your input, GREATLY. Because the fact of the matter is, it COULD very well just be pinholes and having any and every opinion to draw from makes my job significantly easier.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I had one fish with a gill plate that was like that, but it was because he would give his flare face too often, his mom never told him that if he kept making that face it would get stuck that way, and yeah that is what it was, there really is nothing that can be done for it if that's the case.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

He is a fairly aggressive fish. This MIGHT be just a some marbling and excessive flaring.. O_O. 

I'll continue on my plan, checking for stress along the way, and if no more improvement at ALL shows up, I'll just take it as it is, discontinue treatments and hope that it was the right call....


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry Stone, just seemed strange to me in the context was all. Didnt mean to offend anyone.

And yes, I agree to finish out meds as well.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Ok. Getting ready to disinfect the entire tank, and move Lazarus back to the hospital tank, and put Pandora back into the 20gallon completely torn down, substrate removed (replacing it) and everything sanitized. 

Lazarus is going to be treated now with Hydrogen Peroxide and Kanaplex in the tank, with daily water changes since it'll be unfiltered while treating. He'll get Methylene Blue dips 1-2x a day, keeping an eye on stress levels. The tank will ALSO have StressGuard in it, to help protect the slime coat during all of this. 

He seems to get better one minute, then worse the next. Earlier today he seemed to pick up a little, but now he's looking pretty ill again. His fins are a little more stable, but one pectoral (on the side with the stuck gill cover) is basically gone at this point. His caudal looks better, tho! 

Last night, his slime coat did start to shed, tho, and there was a small discharge from his gills... I swear this boy has a little of EVERYTHING right now. Either way, he's very def sick. BUT!!! I'm going to do EVERYTHING I can to get him better.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

GAH! And now he has a sore on his side, too... I swear this boy is only doing this to give me a heart attack....


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Could you get a current picture, sore included?


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I can, but right now my phone is DEAD, so I can't. But there will be an update tomorrow with pictures.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Ok. Here we go. Got a few pictures.


You can see here that, in the last hour, he's bloated up. I did feed him dinner, but it was only 2 pellets and he doesn't normally bloat that bad, but I can't remember if he's pooped lately or not now that I think about it, and I'm wondering if the medications have made him constipated. He was NOT fed yesterday, either.









Tried to get a good picture of the "sore", that's the what looks like maybe a missing scale? towards his Caudal









Here you can tell better that it's not a bad sore, It looked worse when I first saw it, but it's gone down and looks now just like, again, a missing scale.









Here you can see the like, STRAIGHT line down his middle where the color changing is. 








His behavior is still up and down. Sometimes I walk over and he's struggling to breath and laying there lethargic, and then 5 minutes later he's acting great, then 30 minutes later he's lethargic again. 

Last night he shed some of his slime coat, and there was a murky white discharge from his gills, I don't know if it was slime coat too, or not. Then his bloating, which is just started now.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Antibiotics can cause harm to fish the same way it does to humans. Normally as humans we're told to take probiotics or eat yogurt while on antibiotics so it lessens the effect. But I've never known a animal of any sort to not act bad during treatment, that's pretty normal. You know all those side effects they tell you the drug will have? He's experiencing those right now.  

Antibiotics cause slime coat to shed so I wouldn't worry about that.


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## Elizamcm (Jul 1, 2015)

How's you little guy doing? Hopefully better!?


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Lil, I was REALLY hoping that's all it was... I'm not sure what the discharge was yet, like I said it might have been slime coat too, or whatnot. 

Eliza, he seems to be better today. A little stressed out from the tank change, and the change in meds, even tho he was acclimated properly. But, he's going thru a lot. I have the tank covered with a towel to keep it dark for him.


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## Elizamcm (Jul 1, 2015)

Oh bless him! Despite all of this he is a beautiful boy! all the best


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

how are things going?


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

He seems REALLY improved since I started him with the Hydrogen Peroxide in the tank. His color has actually started to come back a little, even! No regrowth on the fins, but no new damage either, and it's still really soon. I don't think his color will ever go back to what it was, but I don't think it was ALL marbling, since some color is coming back. He's still bloated, poor thing, even tho I've fasted him. I think the medications have made him a little constipated. His behavior is extra happy today, and last night. In fact, SO happy and energetic, I don't think I've ever seen him THIS active!! He was always a very active fish, flaring at anything he even thought he saw. But now he's all around his tank having a blast. I'm so very hopeful for him.

The meth blue came in today, so he's going to be dipped here very soon.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

He tolerate the bath VERY well. He's back in his tank, there was a water change, I added in a very small dose of ES just to help him poop, he hasn't in a few days (probably from the medications) and redosed with the Kanaplex, Hydrogen Peroxide, and StressGuard as well. The heat has been a little iffy in there, so I added an extra small heater, hoping it'll bump it up a little, but not too much. It hasn't been BAD in there, 77.2 is a decent temp. BUT. Still. Most my tanks are closer to 80. 

He's looking SO MUCH BETTER. I can't believe it. It MUST be the Hydrogen Peroxide that helped so much. I'm so very excited that he's getting better!!!


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

HP and MB work the same way basically, they oxygenate, ie oxidize dead tissue and microbes, the Hp is cheap and doesn't stain but the dosage can be iffy depending on the kind of fish, so you have to lowball it when using it as a tank treatment,I would guess 4ml per gallon would be pretty safe but scaleless fish like loaches might not tolerate it so well, so it's best to low ball,MB is more tested, tried and true I have usedboth on a q-tip full strength on really bad infections on fish with no harm to the fish,Now you have MB on-hand and you will discover that it works really well.


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

Subbing, so that I can follow his progress.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

He's actually looking GREAT. His color came back a little bit, even, and he's acting pretty darn good now too... He's still bloated, tho, and hasn't pooped, but I'm waiting for now. The HP in his main water and the MB baths have made a HUGE difference


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## Innerbeauty (Jul 31, 2014)

Yay!!! Keep getting better lil boy!

I think his mommy deserves a t-shirt!


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Methylene blue is a wonderful product ^.^


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

Yay! Glad to hear that he is doing better.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

He looks quite good, now! Ready to go back to his home once I get him to poop. He's down to StressGuard and Epsom Salts for medication. I just fed some Mysis shrimp to hopefully get him to poop. He hasn't pooped in a few days, I stopped feeding him after 3 or 4 days of not pooping, but there's still no poop! So, some Mysis shrimp and epsoms and lets get it goin!!


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

Hurray! I am so, so glad that he is doing so much better!


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