# swim bladder?



## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

hi there. I bought my betta, long ha, a few weeks back on a whim. I have owned a betta in the past and contemplated getting a new one for a while. 
When he came home, almost instantly, I noticed swelling in his abdomen, he slants to his left and hovers towards the top of the tank. 

I fasted him for three days, hoping it was constipation. While he did poop, there was no other changes. I fed him a little bit of a cooked pea and he suddenly got better and swam freely, but regressed again the next morning. I did this for about three days to no avail. Yesterday, I figured to turn off the filter (my previous betta never had one, so I'm comfortable with more cleaning/water changes). As soon as I did, he swam freely again! So then I thought, dangit, maybe it was the current! But alas, the next day, he has regressed again.

Can anyone help me out? I've copied and pasted common questions that may help you understand better.

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 
2.5gal (this is temp until he is better)
Does it have a filter?
Did, but removed, it came with the tank. The current was too strong (imo)
Does it have a heater?
Yes. Tetra df30? 25w? Which is doing a crappy job, I might add.
What temperature is your tank?
Looks to be about 76F
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
No, I don't know what this means.
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?
No and none currently

Food:
What food brand do you use?
Hikari
Do you feed flakes or pellets?
Pellets
Freeze-dried?
Nope
How often do you feed your Betta?
Twice
How much?
3 pellets in total

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?
weekly 
What percentage of water did you change?
25%
What is the source of your water?
Tap with conditioner (which is stupid to measure btw. Help?)
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?
Vacuum
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?
Nutrition Aquaplus+

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
Next day after purchase
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
Slightly bloated. His tail also appears to be crooked.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
I feel like he's playing "sike!" When he appears to be better
Is your Betta still eating?
Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
Please see above
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
Wouldn't know, I just got him. 
How long have you owned your Betta?
About three weeks
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?
I bought him from an aquarium. He was pretty chill in the cup. No signs of illness that I could see.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi!
His water temp should be about 78 degrees F and it's really important to know what it is. Get an intank thermometer, a clean kitchen thermometer or both and test constantly.

He needs a higher quality food such as New Life Spectrum pellets (for the difference, compare the ingredient lists) and follow the feeding directions. My boys get as much as they can eat in 60-90 seconds twice a day, with a freeze dried bloodworm every other day.

Instead of the pea which isn't a great method, try getting him to flare, that can often bring about a poop.

He needs the filter, --it isn't hard to baffle the outflow.








Step-By-Step Filter Baffle


Since most filters require a filter baffle to work for bettas, I figured I'd show a step-by-step tutorial on how to build one from an ordinary water bottle. Make sure that the bottle is clean and contained only water prior to using. Rinse in HOT water, but never bleach or use soap that could be...




www.bettafish.com





A pet store will test the water for you but since this is also something that needs to be done by you regularly, you should pick up a water parameter test kit.

For his on again off again behavior, I'm wondering if you should obtain spring water and see if he doesn't improve. It may be that he can't handle the conditioner in your tap. water


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I bought a water testing kit to review. I also bought a sponge filter, which I've read has better reviews than that one my tank came with. 
I came home to a massive poop today, which is promising, however he's still a bit bloated. I tried to take some better pics of his size. 

I was concerned with the conditioning as well. The measurements are never very clear. Maybe I'm not adding enough? The heater I have should be a good. Perhaps I got a faulty one? The red light is hardly ever on, and when it is, the temp doesn't go much higher than it already is.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Update, water testing results

Ammonia:
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
pH: 6.8
Hardness (GH): 150
Alkalinity (KH): 0


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Yay, poop!

If you can test for ammonia too, that would give you an idea whether the quantity of conditioner plus your cleaning method/frequency is working for him

So, I'm using seachem prime, and I finally got it figured out with a dash measuring spoon. You can find these three, smidgen, dash and pinch and see if maybe one of them will work for you?

Oh, the aeration has to do with adding oxygen to the water. I don't know that it's super important since bettas breath air, plus your sponge filter will add bubble action if I remember right.

I saw your tank in the Meet the Owners post, you could possibly add more plants so he has more shade and places to hide


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> I saw your tank in the Meet the Owners post, you could possibly add more plants so he has more shade and places to hide


Oh! Thanks for taking the time to check it out. Yes, I will definitely add more plants once I get him into the bigger tank. I'm looking for increasing it to a 10gal with lots of plants and some friends 

I think i need to buy a separate testing thing for that, as mine doesn't appear to test for ammonia. :/ 
Generally though, how did the water test out?
Thanks for your feedback, I have a clean eye dropper for the conditioner right now. Haha. I just need to figure out the measurements when I do a 25% water change. Perhaps I should do a more thorough, 75% one and add clean warm water.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is your boy more swollen on one side than the other? If so, it could be something other than swim bladder or bloat. Can you get a photo from the top? I know he is eating but I don't know what "sike" is? Does that mean he's active or lethargic?

Betta are facultative breathers and only use labyrinth for emergencies. In other words, their gills are their primary breathing organ. For this reason, aeration is very important; not only so Betta can breathe but also because current keeps the aquarium itself healthy. My Betta very seldom to to the surface. And aeration is even more important if there are tank mates. We don't want to sacrifice their quality of live for the Betta. A filter is too strong only if any fish is being blown around the tank and/or doesn't have a place to rest or eat.

If you go with an adjustable filter (which you should) start it on low and gradually increase as your boy gains strength. Over time, you will find Betta even use the output for exercise. If you go with a 10 go up a side or check into this one. I'm pretty sure it's available in Canada.








MARINA Aquarium Power Filter, 10-gal - Chewy.com


Buy Marina Aquarium Power Filter, 10-gal at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!




www.chewy.com





You can dose water conditioner by drops. One ML = 20 drops. With Prime, it's two drops per gallon.

Do not depend on your thermometer for accurate temperature readings. Most people automatically think it's the heater when the temperature is not the same as set. I read one review which tested thermometers and found the average was +/- 2 degrees. Food thermometers are more accurate. That's why I went to this one and ditched all the rest. I do have four tanks so it is worth it to me.





Digital Pocket Thermometer, 4-5/8 in. L: Instant Read Thermometers: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Digital Pocket Thermometer, 4-5/8 in. L: Instant Read Thermometers: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com





Your parameters are okay but Nitrate should ideally be kept below 10 but under 20 is okay. Several small water changes and vacuums should bring Nitrates down as they are primarily the product of detritus. Ammonia and Nitrites should always be 0 ppm. I don't know what you have available, but an API Master Test Kit (Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, pH) is around the same cost as 5-in-1 + Ammonia strips. The API kit has 800 tests (200 for each of the four parameters) while the strips have under 40. You might find this cycling tutorial helpful:








CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.50ppm (alternately, 25% at 0.25ppm), or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled. That’s all you have to do. You can stop reading now. But there’s a lot of...




www.bettafish.com





Sorry for the dissertation.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I was hoping @RussellTheShihTzu would come in and give you feedback, you can trust his advice for sure


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Mbpoppy said:


> I was hoping @RussellTheShihTzu would come in and give you feedback, you can trust his advice for sure


@Mbpoppy : I keep forgetting to second your kitchen thermometer suggestion. While aquarium thermometers aren't required to be accurate, kitchen/food ones must. I calculated that by the time I paid for six "good" aquarium thermometers I would spend more than half the above...and have better accuracy, to boot. Plus, one less thing to clutter the look of the tanks.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Is your boy more swollen on one side than the other? If so, it could be something other than swim bladder or bloat. Can you get a photo from the top? I know he is eating but I don't know what "sike" is? Does that mean he's active or lethargic?
> 
> Betta are facultative breathers and only use labyrinth for emergencies. In other words, their gills are their primary breathing organ. For this reason, aeration is very important; not only so Betta can breathe but also because current keeps the aquarium itself healthy. My Betta very seldom to to the surface. And aeration is even more important if there are tank mates. We don't want to sacrifice their quality of live for the Betta. A filter is too strong only if any fish is being blown around the tank and/or doesn't have a place to rest or eat.
> 
> ...


Not at all! You guys have helped me and Tarzan out in the past, so I appreciate the feedback. Following is an aerial photo of LongHa to view his bloating but better.

Im just at the petstore now and debating on purchasing a new heater. Perhaps I'll stick to the digital thermometer and see where it goes.
I'm also buying a separate ammonia testing kit as my current kit does not include it.
My pet store only offers TOPFIN filter products. I bought a filter that they market specifically for Bettas. Fingers crossed.

Mbpoppy, I bought some dry freeze blood worms. I forgot to get some daphnine (sp?) for him to poop. How do I get him to flare?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Ammonia confirmed at 0! Below is the aerial photo I promised.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)




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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! Since he won't flare at you, try holding a small mirror in front of him/his tank. He'll think his reflection is an adversary and should flare at that 

Good for you on the bloodworms! Just to mention, those are just for treats (as opposed to a replacement of your other food that's for his actual meals), --I give my boys one worm every other day or so.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Changing the water and adding the new filter appears to have made a difference so far. I know its less than 24 hours, he may regress again as he does. 
When I say "sike" I meant that he appears normal and healthy, but then he will then float back to the top. But again, he doesnt appear to do that now. I'm gonna remain hopeful. 
With the new thermometer, I'll be able to see if my heater is working well or not. 
Thank you two! For your quick replies and great advice


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed !


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Please up his food intake as he seems skinny. Ideally, there is no definition between head and body. Start out with two pellets 3 x per day; then up to three after a week. 

You do not want compromised fish to eat all they can; especially those with suspected bloat. This is because they can overeat and do more harm than good.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

LongHa's health has not improved. While he is swimming a bit more now, he doesn't sink to the bottom at all. This morning I also woke up to discover a white spot on his head. Upon further inspection, I see black stripes across his body. 

New water perameters as of sept 11th, because everything else is the same from my last post.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
GH: 150
Chlorine: 0
KH: 0
pH: 6.8
View attachment 1021562


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

LongHa's health has not improved. While he is swimming a bit more now, he doesn't sink to the bottom at all. This morning I also woke up to discover a white spot on his head. Upon further inspection, I see black stripes across his body. 

New water perameters as of sept 11th, because everything else is the same from my last post.
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
GH: 150
Chlorine: 0
KH: 0
pH: 6.8
View attachment 1021562


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Please up his food intake as he seems skinny. Ideally, there is no definition between head and body. Start out with two pellets 3 x per day; then up to three after a week.


Lately I've been giving him 3 pellets in the morning and 3 in the evening due to my work hours. 

He didn't take to the bloodworm I offered him. I'll try again on Monday.

Hes swimming a lot more around the surface, but won't dip to the bottom of the tank. He will swim... then float. Swim... then float. Then he will hide behind the heater.

I woke up this morning to some more symptoms. I feel really disheartened. No matter what I try, I don't see an improvement. 

I made a new post with his new symptoms so it may help others.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! What is the ammonia reading?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Hi! What is the ammonia reading?


Ammonia : 0.5


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

You will want to do more water changes in order to bring that ammonia reading down.
I don't know if you've had a chance to read this, but it may help;








CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.50ppm (alternately, 25% at 0.25ppm), or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled. That’s all you have to do. You can stop reading now. But there’s a lot of...




www.bettafish.com


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

You will want to do more water changes in order to bring that ammonia reading down.
I don't know if you've had a chance to read this, but it may help;








CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.50ppm (alternately, 25% at 0.25ppm), or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled. That’s all you have to do. You can stop reading now. But there’s a lot of...




www.bettafish.com


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey there, my post was moved. Dunno where it went

Ammonia is at 0. 

I feel like a failure because I tried many things to help him and he just gets super bloated again, swims erratically, hides behind the filter, and just hovers towards the surface. 

When i did his water change this weekend, he swam so nicely, even towards the bottom. I felt so happy. But he's back to the top and now he's gotta a white spot on his head and 2 black stripes on his side.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You're not a failure. Fish are fragile and, as with other tiny critters, they can go downhill fast. And they are often difficult to diagnose unless one can find a for them. As those who have hamsters and mice.

Unfortunately, many of use learned a majority of what we know about fish from our mistakes. At least, that's the way it was for me.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I read other threads, so I put a towel over thr tank over night. The stripes are gone, but the spot is still there. 
He swam up to great me, but he's not eating. 
I also discovered a red spot on bis right cheek now too.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> You will want to do more water changes in order to bring that ammonia reading down.
> I don't know if you've had a chance to read this, but it may help;
> 
> 
> ...


How long does cycling typically last?
I will place LongHa in a smaller tank in the meantime. I'm no longer comfortable with the larger tank and filter. The cycling with the new filter may help.

Should i give him a salt treatment + stress coat in the 1gal while the 2.5gal is cycling?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! The treatments might help but I'm not an expert at all with either method. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will see your post and reply soon. Hang in there!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Latest pic of LongHa


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

There is always the possibility he suffered from some sort of injury before you got him. Or, he could have a tumor.

Have you done Epsom Salt baths? One table spoon plain, unscented Epsom Salt (well dissolved) per gallon. Place him in the solution for no more than 10 minutes. Monitor constantly for any signs of stress and remove immediately. If he was not stressed you can try again the next day.

You might not see any improvement or you might not see it immediately.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> There is always the possibility he suffered from some sort of injury before you got him. Or, he could have a tumor.
> 
> Have you done Epsom Salt baths? One table spoon plain, unscented Epsom Salt (well dissolved) per gallon. Place him in the solution for no more than 10 minutes. Monitor constantly for any signs of stress and remove immediately. If he was not stressed you can try again the next day.
> 
> You might not see any improvement or you might not see it immediately.


I was just searching the forum about this. I bought a 1 gal to quarantine him further. Perhaps the substrate and live plant might be bugging him.

Anyway, I will do a 100% water change an cycle the tank with the plant and leave him in the 1 gal with clean conditioned water (I bought prime and stress coat+)

When I do the salt bath, does the water need to bw conditioned? I couldn't get a clear answer on that. Should I feed him daphine in the 1 gal instead of gis pellets as well for a few days? I dont notice poop in the 2.5, byt he does in a smaller one almost instantly. Thanks!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I just transfered LH to his 1gal. He hates me right now because i gave him the scare of his life trying to fish him out. Sorry buddy. I added the stress coat+ in there to help alleviate any stress hes feeling. 

He is currently on his side. Clearly supee upset with me. The stripes came back but at least I know its because of stress. I'll put a towel over him again tonight and let him chill.

I'll start the epsom salt bath tomorrow. Should I add some seachem prime as well?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Yes, use SeaChem Prime to any water you add to a fish tank. I even add to distilled because I'm paranoid. Oh, and don't forget to make a new solution of the ES mix.

You will need to cycle the tank with LH in residence. As you won't be removing him, it should not be stressful.

It's great you're conscientious and taking such good care of LH; not all Betta are that lucky.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Good morning everyone.
After a bit of a sleepless night, I woke up to find LH is better spirits! He isn't floating, but sqimming calmly around thw 1 gal. He ate well, his colour is now a deep purple. But he's not outta the woods yet! He's gotta pooooooop. He will have the ES bath tonight. 

When cleaning out the old subtrate from the 2.5, there was a foul smell. It added to my suspicions that it could have been the issue. While I thought about rinsing it out for the sake of my Java fern, after some research, I realized that guy can go just about anywhere, so I decided to use some red gravel type substrate.

I read up on this as well (1 gal tanks and that). I know some of you have. What heaters are being used. The convos keep going back to 2.5 gal and 25w. My 2.5 had a 50w which was the only thing that helped keep him warm enough imo. I stayed up all night because I was afraid of temperature in the 1 gal. Don't judge me, I put the 50w in there and laid it horizontally. Temp maintained at 78.8 degrees. If I ever found it was too hot (even to the touch), I was ready to turn it off.
But yes, a proper therm for a 1 gal would be ideal. At least until his 2.5 has been cycled.

Thanks


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I use the 5w flat heater in my 1 1/2 gallon. It keeps the water right a 78 depending on my home temperature if my house is a little warmer it sits more at 80 I tried the 15w but it started to heat beyond 80 degrees. They are the mini heaters that are always on I think and can be prone to over heating water. I wish I had a small adjustable heater that would fit in the small tanks. LOL and no one will judge you here. Especially for caring so much about heated water 😂 we’ve all had our ups and downs in this hobby. I’m glad LH is doing better 🤘🏻


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

X skully X said:


> I use the 5w flat heater in my 1 1/2 gallon. It keeps the water right a 78 depending on my home temperature if my house is a little warmer it sits more at 80 I tried the 15w but it started to heat beyond 80 degrees.


These heaters are a mystery, eh? Would you mind telling me what brand you 5w is?

My 50w is still doing great (my mom is watching over him while I'm at work). Its currently at 79.0 and mom says hes looking comfy, not floating sadly or spazzing. His colour is now a dark purple. He's a pretty boy!

@Mbpoppy and @RussellTheShihTzu, taking him outta there was the best idea so far. That substrate is in the garbage and im growing the Java fern separately. That tank is getting a good wash with hot water and vineager and I will start the cycle tonight. I just need that poop! Hehe


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can use the 50 watt in the one gallon. Unless it malfunctions it should heat the same as if in a 10 gallon. If you want a smaller adjustable, Hydor makes a 25 watt that is around 7" total. Hygger makes a 50 watt that is around 5". Either would work in a one gallon. Hydor also makes a non-adjustable heater so make sure you look at the in-line ones and not the submersibles.






Hygger Mini Inline Quartz Glass Aquarium Heater with External Controller, Adjustable Submersible Betta Fish Tank Thermostat 50W/100W


Hygger Mini Inline Quartz Glass Aquarium Heater with External Controller, Adjustable Submersible Betta Fish Tank Thermostat 50W/100W



www.hygger-online.com





I have used Hydor but not Hygger but it gets decent reviews. Toss out all the heater reviews that complain they and the thermometer differ. It is just as often the thermometer that doesn't read accurately. And equally as often, people don't let the heaters adjust before plugging.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi there.

Still no poops and he's struggling a little. New water parameters below:

Nitrate 0
nitrite 0
GH 300
chlorine 0
alkalinity 40
pH 8.4
Ammonia 0

I need some help with the epsom salt thing. I watched some videos and im not sure im understanding well or they're doing it wrong.

I understand, I need a 1 gal bowl. Inside I put 2 dropsof prime and a tsp of epsom salt. The salt dissolves and I add LH i side for 10 minutes (should he not pass out.

My question is, should there be a recovery tank (in case he does pass out, or after treatment) with 1/4 of the epsom salt dose in another 1 gal and prime before returning him to his original tank?

2nd question,
Will epsom salt also help with fin rot? I notice missing pieces already


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

hey yall!

I thought you'd like to read about an update for LongHa.

I arrived home last night and got a HUGE scare. He bloated up so badly after I decided to feed him some flakes instead of pellets. I went ahead and msged @Veloran to help with adding epsom salt in his tank instead of the dips. I also decided to fast him last night and this morning. 
When I arrived from work, I saw this:








He's swimming! And diving! The swelling is gone. Do you think the pellets were the issue the entire time?!
I fed him some more flakes tonight and broke his fast. Let's see how he looks in the morning. I hope he doesn't regress as he's done in the past.

Thoughts?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hang in there, LongHa, you're doing great!!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

@Mbpoppy thank you for all your support. Let's see how the weekend pans out and I'll put him back in the 2.5. Its been cyxled by 2 danios whom ill transfer to my new 20 gal


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

👍 😀


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

It is possible that he could have a problem with the fillers in the Hikkari.
You would feed him flakes but pellets are less likely to foul the water. You can try switching him to a higher quality of food like New Life Spectrum, Omega One or NorthFin Betta bites.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Thanks... turns out the normal swimming was short lived. Hes back to floating up top again and swimming side ways and a little bloated. Therefore, I cannot confirm nor deny if its the pellets. He took a great poop though, which wasn't as common with the pellets.

Alas, back to the drawing board 😔. I'll do the epsom salt in his current tank (he's back in the 2.5). 

This guy is a mystery.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

How are things today?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> How are things today?


 You're so nice to check up on us! Thank you!!

This guy..... _groans_. I fasted him again from Saturday night until Sunday night because he was bloated again. Fed him the flakes before then. When I saw him Sunday night, he was hiding behind the heater, as usual, and bobbing around all puffed up. I felt so dejected. 

Because he went the 24 hrs without food, I fed him a bloodworm and we all went to bed.

When I woke up, I could see some movement in the darkness. When I turned on his light.... HE WAS SWIMMING! No more bloat. He was exploring his 2.5 for the first time. 

Is food an issue? Does he have like, betta IBS or something? Should I feed him before work and see how he manages when I get back?

This is what I meant by "syke" (probably spelt it wrong).


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Maybe don't feed him this morning, I'm not sure but he'd be ok without food for a few hours, I think? What do you think?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I'm ok with not feeding this morning. Bloodworms can be quite filling, yea?

I just dont wanna go down for under feeding LH. But at this point, his condition is such a mystery. Maybe he's sensitive to the amount of feed and just takes longer to digest?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

As long as he doesn't look like this poor baby you're ok, but maybe the next feed should be just a small amount, one pellet or so?

Let me find that photo...


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I couldn't find the picture right off, but in any case, maybe starting tonight try tiny meals for him of real food, no bloodworms for a bit, two or three times a day.
I did find this;
A healthy weight Betta should have a gradual taper from head to caudal peduncle. If there is a visible “waistline” before the peduncle, it’s a sign of insufficient fat stores in the peduncle, which is the portion of the fish’s body just before the tail fin starts. When viewed from above, if the fish’s head is significantly wider than the body, rather than showing a gradual taper from the front to the back, then the fish is certainly underweight."
My key identifier is behind the Gills, if there is a DISTINCT hollow and you can see the fishes spine then it's emaciated.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> I couldn't find the picture right off, but in any case, maybe starting tonight try tiny meals for him of real food, no bloodworms for a bit, two or three times a day.


 Pardon my ignorance. Real food?
You mean the pellets? 

I used to feed him 3 pellets twice a day. Then i switched to 1 pinch of flakes twice a day.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I'm sorry, I should have clarified what I meant, that the bloodworms aren't necessarily viable as a regular meal, but the pellets and flakes are more nutritionally balanced especially with brands such as New Life Spectrum and Northfin


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

They can have problems with food sometimes. It is important to to feed them a high quality food.
Some people feed exclusively frozen, but you need to feed a variety.
You can try switching to one of the foods I mentioned above before starting to explore other options.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Veloran said:


> You can try switching to one of the foods I mentioned above before starting to explore other options.


Yes! I was waiting for a reply, but I was thinking about picking up an Omega One brand as its most accessible where I live.

Here he is now, finally at the bottom. He's saying "yooooo". Or screaming. I think I may have found the beginnings of a bubble nest too. But I don't wanna be too hopefull rn.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Lol


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

So Im back home. Its been about 6 hours since I left. I haven't fed him yet...and hes bobbing again. 

He tries to dive, but he has to push really hard to go down, then gives up and floats back up again. He can't stay down like in the pic above. This is opposite of this morning where he was gliding around the tank beautifully. Thoughts?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Poor guy, I don't have experience to help with this, especially with him being inconsistent.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Poor guy, I don't have experience to help with this, especially with him being inconsistent.


Yeah, its very mercurial. He then hides behind the heater most of the time. Maybe my cat is freaking him out when I'm not home? Would that ause this type of recurring behavior?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I don't think so, this sounds like a specific diving issue.


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## AndreaPond (May 2, 2020)

The word you were looking for is "psyche", not "syke". Gosh, I haven't heard that word in a long time. You made me laugh.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

AndreaPond said:


> The word you were looking for is "psyche", not "syke". Gosh, I haven't heard that word in a long time. You made me laugh.


I clearly aged myself with that one


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

There's another thread that sounds similar to yours, sometimes fine other times not. Have you repeated the epsom bath? Is he pooping?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

He poops really good. I didnt repeat the epsom when i saw he was better. 

I woke up this morning, I didnt turn on the light yet, but i could see he was swimming again without bobbing. 

Ill leave the light off today and see how that goes. My room is pretty bright as my room faces west and the sun sets into it.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> There's another thread that sounds similar to yours, sometimes fine other times not. Have you repeated the epsom bath? Is he pooping?


Still do you know which thread it could be? Thank you


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

It's this one;








Swim Bladder disease


Someone please read and respond 🤞 I could really use some advice fish friends. My betta has has SWD symptoms for over 2 weeks now. I’ve tried everything... I know this is a lot but I want you to know what I know so you can help...I hope! I’ve read every article, watched every video and nothing...




www.bettafish.com


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Bubble nest confirmed. Swimming still great with the light off. Fed him a little bit of flakes. Will add more when i return home and again before bed. 

Ill update how he is when i get home from work and keeping the light off.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey yall,

Light off didnt work. Hes bloated as heck and swam around like a mad mam when he saw me before hiding again behind the heater.

😩😞😩😞😩😞😩😞😩😞

Epsom salt bath for 10 days it is. I'm home all next week so i cam keep a good eye on progress.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Dang, I'm sorry to hear he's not doing well!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Im about to believe that this will be his norm. Maybe its something congenital like @RussellTheShihTzu stated earlier. 
I mean, hes making bubble nests!!
So, really... I'm at a loss. 
I'm gonna do the 10 day epsom salt bath (water change daily, yes?) @Veloran .

Everything else is fine. He poops, he doesnt nip, hes happy to see me, hes making nests. Everything else seems normal otherwise.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sorry if I have a little trouble keeping up with all of the threads.
1 gallon = 50% daily
2.5 gallon = 50% twice weekly.

He can be in the salt for 10 days, but after that he should be in fresh water only for at least a week. If it's bloating that keep returning, he may have to live with it all his life with you trying to mitigate it by changing his food.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey y'all! 

Remember when I thought he was making a bubble nest? He's not making a bubble nest. I change the water and its still there as well as this film.










I scooping up the film with the tip of a glass, as I heard it a not harmful. I read online that bubbles on the surface may mean that its water isn't clean. But I changed the water twice this week. Can someone confirm its juat air bubbles?

LH had a rough day and night yesterday. I fed him a blood worm and I guess it made him super gassy. I noticed last night that his filter was a little louder than usual, but I disnt think much of it. When I woke this morning, he was jumping around the tank, it seemed it was super freaked out, stresa stripes and all. As soon as I turned ofd the filter, he calmed down.

Today ia a good day. He's swimming around normally (haha). I think this stupid 10$ filter needs to go to the trash. This is my 2nd one since I got him. 

I really wanna put him in the 20gal we got. Byt I have two glo tetra in there (thanks mom) and they're really nippy with one another. 

Suggestions? Get a planted 5gal? What should I add with the glofish?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Nitrates >10 
nitrite 0 
hardness > 150 
chlorine 0 
alkalinity <80 
pH 7.4

Is this a stress spot?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I did a 100% water change and rinsed out the filter real good in the tank water. Its still a lite loud but water is circulating better now and all the worms and bubble are gone. 

I noticed before, even heat was distributing well in the tank. It stayed at 77.6, however the water was warm to the touch. Since rinsing the filter, its settling at 80.1 now. 

So a clean tank, better filtration, and warm water. I'd be a happy betta, would you?

Well.... this is LH. He can't get further away from me. Ungrateful hmph.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

How's the spot you mentioned previously?

I don't know what to add to glofish. Why would you want to get a planted 5 gal?



tianikki said:


> So a clean tank, better filtration, and warm water.


Good for you, keep doing things so that it's like this all the time.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Hos the spot you mentioned previously?
> 
> I don't know what to add to glofish. Why would you want to get a planted 5 gal?
> 
> ...


I'll answer in order of your questions.

1) I dont recall seeing it when I cupped him. There's too many air bubbles on the glass to tell at the moment. But his colours changed back from gold to dark purple which is usually a sign he is no longer stressed.

2) darn it. All this space going to waste with just 2 fish. The aquarium guy said they would do well with the betta, but seeing their behavior has me think differently. They're really hyper. 

3)I wanted to get a planted tank because 1, it meant more space for LH. 2, it was a more natural habitat for LH. And 3, I like to torture myself. 

4)Thanks! This journey had been quite eventful in my usual quiet life. Honestly, LH gives me more drama than some of the catty ladies I deal with.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

tianikki said:


> And 3, I like to torture myself.


lol


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I tried to research on this site about the tetras but didn't really come up with anything definitive. Hang in there, one of the experts will hopefully have a chance to see your question, or maybe (if you haven't already) start a new thread specific to them.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I haven't read every post. But do I understand correctly that LH is now in a 2.5 with another fish?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I haven't read every post. But do I understand correctly that LH is now in a 2.5 with another fish?


 Hey! LH is in a 2.5 alone. 
He was going great for 2 days! The longest yet. 

I went out to stock my 20 gal, when I returned, I found new silver like spots on his head and he was swimming around like a psycho. I turned off the filter (being annoyingly loud) and he instantly calmed. 

Hes currently bloated again, which makes sense since he ate earlier. Anyways.... Here's some pics.
















😭😭😭😭😭


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

False alarm. It was just a stinking stress spot. It spread for a moment and then disappeared once I shut off the light. 

My boyfriend was over and witnessed the ordeal. He's known LH since I got him too. He feels I'm stressing too hard. I just don't wanna let him down.

I looked up a PFE-1 filter, but I can't seem to find any online in Canada except on eBay. I've never ordered from there, so I'm not sure how reputable they may be. Either way, with shipping from the States is a bit crazy. 

I have an Elite mini. Someone on YouTube recommended it for my tank specifically because the current on the original is too strong and frikken loud. But then I got the topfin betta whisper and LH is starting to hate it (i guess).

I feel options are limited to the 2.5gal.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hello everyone!

Uodate on LH, it a been three says aince I turned off the topfin betta whisper. Let's just say that LH is thriving!
He does get bloated and bobs, but only after eating. Otherwise, he swims beautifully now. He takes enormous poops after bloodworms, is this typical? HUGE!

Some new plastic plants I added, because I was told he's pretty exposed. Pic below. He already for a slight tear in his dorsal fin (the top one?). I nervous about planting the 2.5 Minibow. I also haven't seen others done as well. 

So I'm feeling the humming of the filter really bothered him. Any suggestions?
Filter less? A quieter filter?
Thanks!


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! There's this current thread, you'll want to read all the way to the end...








Need quietest filter for 5gal aquarium


please, help me to select the quietest filter for my 5 gal tank. It is in my daughters room and my daughter cannot sleep with that constant humming noise. And I red on this forum that is it a bad idea to turn filter off even for a few hours... I tried two (marine 10 and penn-plax 20 HOBs), also...




www.bettafish.com


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Ah yes, I bookmarked this page and forgot. This guy was very thorough. It looks like he's having a great time with the hobby. 

Golly, prices aren't for the faint heart, eh?

I remember reading about the penn-plex from @RussellTheShihTzu . Will LH be okay with it?

(Holy crap! Eddie Van Halen passed away)


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Oh no!

Back to LH, I don't know....can you retain the purchase receipt in case he doesn't like it and you could return it? If you can find it on Chewy.com, they have a pretty amazing return policy.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

The tetra whisper 1-4 doesn't fit in the minibow. I really stressed out LH in the process. 
I hooked up my elite filter for small tanks for now. I tied some sponge on the output because I found it a bit strong. It certainly helped. This filter is as loud as the last though, im not sure how he will cope.

LH is so miserable right now. My evening plans are a write off because I feel so dejected over this whole fiasco. I made so many foolish mistakes and I've spent so much money as it is and still failing to improve his environment. 

My holidays end today so I won't be able to check on him during the day anymore.

#sadbettamom


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

How are things now?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hes his bobbing self. He's not really exploring the tank, he well push himself to the bottom until he gets tired. Once he poops, he will glide around a bit better.

Filter off for him is more peaceful. I cant really hang anything off it because of the awkward rim of the minibow and any submersible filter just vibrates the entire thing. Its weird how he suddenly built this intolerance for it. Maybe he always suffered and I realized it recently with all the trial and error I was doing.

Would this be a scenario to convert to a low tech planted tank instead? Are there other options? I'm changing water partially every 3 days to keep it clean, but even this is starting to irritate him, too. 

Edit: whoopsie! 😿


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

How is he acting that makes you think the water changes are "irritating" him?

As they do not have the capacity to become angry it is important to know_ exactly _what you mean.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

My apologies on the earlier post.

Not irritate. I mean... it stresses him out. His colour instantly changes and stress stripes appear. He starts to try to jump out as well. The stress agitates his stomach after as well, his systems return with bobbing, minus the swelling. 
He always eats well during this time.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't have time to read all the pages to I'll ask some questions. Hope I not repeating what any anyone has asked or said.....including me. 

Have you put him in the 10? If not and he's still in the 2.5, you can use a turkey baster every day to remove any feces or leftover food. Instead of larger water changes you can dip out a cup. If that doesn't stress him, you could try 1.5 cups.

Using the turkey baster removes the "cleaning" reason for the water changes so that just leaves replacing minerals and trace elements. That's why a cup or so is fine. Wouldn't suggest this long-term but you prevent stressing any way you can.

Are you still feeding flakes or have you switched to pellets? If still flakes, do you notice a difference in his behavior after eating them as compared to after a frozen Bloodworm? Does he bob more after flakes? There are some who believe feeding flakes causes Betta to ingest air and thus cause issues.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I dont own a 10, I think you meant the 20 gal. I've currently got it stocked with some other fish he won't do well with (cue in danios and gourami), so he will need to stay in this 2.5 minibow.

LH is back on pellets. His reaction to both are the same. He tends to get more swollen after the bloodworm, otherwise he's just buoyant. He kind of slithers around the top of the tank, then puuuuuushes himself as low down the tank as he can, STOPS, and the floats back up _boop_. After that, he hides behind the heater to rest.

When he's really bloated, well, then he's lopsided and doesn't even try to dive. This is typical after bloodworms. It usually follows suit with a _good_ bowel movement. I feel its about the only thing that keeps him regular.

PS @RussellTheShihTzu , what is this "dip a cup"? How does it work and then how do you replace with conditioned water?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You just dip out a cup of water instead of vacuuming because you're using the turkey baster to remove feces and excess food. Replace with a cup of conditioned water. Do this if you think the actual vacuuming is stressing him. If you try dipping and he has no stress stripes you've eliminated one source of stress.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

So its safe to have a bucket of conditioner water on hand then.

What are thoughts on sponge filters?
Im thinking if I'm going to get a better filter, I'm just gonna need to cough up some cash and get a proper glass tank. I still have some newer Fluval substrate laying around from the planted tank from the bf. He also has some plants he can spare that are doing well for him. I'll have to cycle it, but perhaps its best.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Here is how he looks today. Hope the photos catch it. He had a bloodworm for dinner with a palette. He's really full and can't dive at this point. 
He will typically poop over night and swim alot more freely in the tank. This is only with the filter being off.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I put back the old filter, the original with the minibow and just replaced the cartridge in there for a chunk of sponge. It has weakened the current somewhat and its not as loud as its not attached to the sides of the tank. 
He was a bit stressed after the move (stripes in FULL effect). So I turned off the light and placed a towel over it. 

Hopefully this will suffice until his new home is set up. _fingers crossed_.


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## gummyman (Oct 12, 2020)

tianikki said:


> hi there. I bought my betta, long ha, a few weeks back on a whim. I have owned a betta in the past and contemplated getting a new one for a while.
> When he came home, almost instantly, I noticed swelling in his abdomen, he slants to his left and hovers towards the top of the tank.
> 
> I fasted him for three days, hoping it was constipation. While he did poop, there was no other changes. I fed him a little bit of a cooked pea and he suddenly got better and swam freely, but regressed again the next morning. I did this for about three days to no avail. Yesterday, I figured to turn off the filter (my previous betta never had one, so I'm comfortable with more cleaning/water changes). As soon as I did, he swam freely again! So then I thought, dangit, maybe it was the current! But alas, the next day, he has regressed again.
> ...


You can buy frozen peas and boil one, peel the skin on one and feed it to him


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Update on LongHa.

We can finally see him resting in all areas of the 2.5 now! He swims around happy. I catching him sleeping on the plants. I even saw him swim through the heart and I thought it was the cutest thing. 

His tail got sliced. But it looks like little spikes are growing on it. Perhaps its starting to grow back now. 

He bobs just after eating for a bit, but then goes back to normal. He's particularly stressed in the morning, with stripes, so I don't turn on the light until the evening. The sponge in the filter is working well! He's not jumpy and water appears to stay warmer too (it stayed at around 77-78, but now 79.6 - 80).

Testing the 10gal tank and its nitrite free, thanks to the substrate being used in an establish tank, along with the equipment and plants. I think one more week and I'll move him to his new home


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

What a great update, thanks very much!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I wish I can post videos. Last three days have been rough for LH, but I know its cause of his digestion (no evidence of new excrements). It looks like he "flutters" around the top of the tank. As opposed to more of a gliding. Somewhat bloated as well, of course.
Do you find this as well?
What else can I do to prevent stress?
I see it most in the mornings.

Thanks.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Try and determine what it is in the morning that is causing his stress.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

The only thing I can think of is the filter or the light. Some days then filter is louder than others. When I leave the light off, hes okay. 
Nothing else has changed from the routine. Unless the cat is jumping up, but she hasn't tried in the last while. 

But ya, these fluttering motions is typical for a swim bladder dude?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I don't know anything about swim bladder, but if you don't have love plants why not just leave the light off? My boys only have natural daylight and then our ceiling lights. (I have to shut the shades during the times the sun really streams into their tank  )


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Officially really constipated again. Sometimes the bloodworms cause it. He doesn't poop regularly (from what I can see) so I guess it builds up so he gets REALLY bloated and shows SBD like symptoms. I'll fast him this weekend first to see how he does.

I'm gonna do a thorough water change and a cleaning. While I did wanna move him to the 10 gal this weekend, it may need to be on hold until he's better. What do you think?

Hes in good spirits otherwise. Fluttering everywhere, trying to dive. Hes stronger than before, at least. I'm going to keep the light off as suggested by @Mbpoppy. My room faces east, so theres alot of natural light in the afternoon.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

The fasting and the tank clean may help, and maybe don't feed bloodworms for a while? I don't know about moving him or not...



Mbpoppy said:


> you don't have love plants


Oops, I meant live plants lol


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Fair. I've noticed alot of brown algae in the new tank anyways. Should probably starve those off anyways. 

2 steps forward, one step back. Never a dull moment, eh?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Oh, by the way, I don't recall if you mentioned, are you using freeze-dried or frozen blood worms?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Oh, by the way, I don't recall if you mentioned, are you using freeze-dried or frozen blood worms?


Hiya! Freeze-dried omega one!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

New photo of my bloated "red dragon".


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Have you considered frozen bloodworms? They may be easier for him to digest. There are also daphnia you could look into - you were thinking about it early on in this thread, I don't know if you ever got any? Freeze dried or frozen is good, just follow the directions regarding how to and how much to feed.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I'll pick some up today. Any thing to help LongHa. Thanks @Mbpoppy !


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Officially doing epsom salt treatments again for LH. No improvement from the fasting this weekend. 

Back to the drawing board. W00t!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Here's my boy. Stressed and bloated before his dip. Fins crossed!!










Epsom salt dips are so stressful for me. I always fear I will do it wrong.


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## ThatRockDog (Oct 28, 2020)

tianikki said:


> Here's my boy. Stressed and bloated before his dip. Fins crossed!!
> 
> View attachment 1023019
> 
> ...


I just joined the forum because I believe I’m having a similar problem such as yourself. I will say however, the Epsom salt dips are also super stressful for me as well! Not to mention my betta Maxwell seems to /really/ protest these adventures.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey Rockdog.

Welcome to the forum! If you haven't already and you're having an issue with your betta and need some advice, please feel free to start a new thread. There is many helpful ppl here. 

My LH is a chronic bloater. Him and I are still trying to figure the proper feeding regiment to help him and his sensitive tummy and my sanity. 

Since the post, hes been somewhat better. But I moved him to a new tank with a really strong filter current, so he's being a little stand off-ish.

Looking forward to learning more about your watery friend.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

tianikki said:


> a really strong filter current,


You're familiar with how to baffle the outflow?


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## ThatRockDog (Oct 28, 2020)

tianikki said:


> Hey Rockdog.
> 
> Welcome to the forum! If you haven't already and you're having an issue with your betta and need some advice, please feel free to start a new thread. There is many helpful ppl here.
> 
> ...


Already ahead of you there, my post is just underneath your own where I gave my full “dissertation“ on what I’ve been already doing, water parameters, etc.

I’ve only been treating him with those Epsom salt baths for two days so I’m just in the starting point of my adventure with him. I also read your entire thread as well just in case his case of bloating and swim bladder issue is a chronic event vs. an acute event. Good to know that this might just be my new life with the lil’ guy. I hope he likes his new hospital/replacement tank.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

If it is a chronic issue, you may require to adjust his feeding. Like waiting longer between pellets, soaking them, small feeds, etc. 

I got some weird advice from an aquarium dude once. He convinced me to get the treat-o-reel or whatever and said to feed him 1 of each per day. Then I should only have 2 pellets _per day_! ☠☠☠

Feedings and water quality is so important when it comes to fish.


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## ThatRockDog (Oct 28, 2020)

tianikki said:


> If it is a chronic issue, you may require to adjust his feeding. Like waiting longer between pellets, soaking them, small feeds, etc.
> 
> I got some weird advice from an aquarium dude once. He convinced me to get the treat-o-reel or whatever and said to feed him 1 of each per day. Then I should only have 2 pellets _per day_! ☠☠☠
> 
> Feedings and water quality is so important when it comes to fish.


Yes feedings and water quality are indeed very important. That's one reason why strongly believe in heavily planted tanks! Gotta love taking advantage of that sweet sweet nitrogen cycle.

But enough about my boy, how's LH doing today?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey there.

LH isn't in the best shape today. I fed Him some Freeze-dried daphnia and he swelled up like a balloon and hid away.

I walked away, disgruntled. Not sure what more to do but to give him another EB. But first, I figured I would have some dinner and unwind from my day. 

When I returned I to my study, I found this.
















The little bugger is swimming and looking much better (FULL, but not a balloon). This is the first time I've seen him finally exploring his new home. He even went under the little bridge I made. I could cry tears of joy.

Someone else likes her new "tv set".


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

She's gorgeous!!😍

Hang in there little buddy!! Woohoo!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Betta prone to bloat or SBD should not be fed freeze-dried anything. I realize there is anecdotal evidence it Daphnia can help but there is far more evidence it does not. Frozen, as noted by Mbpoppy, is recommended.

While there is no problem with feeding healthy Betta all they can eat within a certain amount of time, you never feed a fish prone to or with bloat or SBD the same way. You want them to stay within their limits because they cannot. When it comes to food, though, I can't always judge my limits, either. So guess it's not just a fish-thing. 

I cannot go back through 20 pages to find out what you're doing now so I'll ask:

What are you feeding?

How much of each?

Can you post a current photo of him from the side and the top?

Is his spine still bent or was that just the photo?

Glad he's out and exploring his new home.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry to keep troubling you @RussellTheShihTzu


RussellTheShihTzu said:


> What are you feeding?


Hikari Betta Bio-Gold. OmegaOne freeze-dried bloodworms. NEW: Hikari treat wheel something. Its comes with 3 different treats (daphnia, music, bloodworms).



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> How much of each?


Pellets: 3-5 daily. Split into 2 meals. Except when he bloats. We would skip that day I discover it and then I would feed him only the 3 pellets the next day if negating persists.
BW: once a week, one worm. Replace one of his meals in the day with this, then feed him 3 pellets at night.
Treat Wheel: first time today. Gave him 2 pellets this morning. None at night.


RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Is his spine still bent or was that just the photo?


His spine only bends like that when he's bloated and bobbing on his side and cannot dive.

The picture you're referring to is the most recent ariel view I have. It's hard to get one of him in his tank. This was during his ES Bath on Tuesday.

Thank you. I'm hoping he is continuing his good spirits in the morning as well.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

His tank is looking really good! It might help him if you could add a taller broad-leaf plant. Silk or live. If live, a floating Anubias is good. My Betta seem to like is floating Hornwort. You can't plant it because it grows no viable roots so either let it float or anchor and let it flow over the surface..

When fish are prone to bloat you want to food that has the fewest fillers. Hikari Biogold is far from a good choice. These are the first five ingredients:_ Fish meal, wheat flour, soybean meal, rice bran, potato starch_.

I've been doing research on freeze dried. You want foods that have no fillers and look like what they're supposed to be. If Hikari fits it should be okay. But I would break them up into small pieces and feed no more than one as a treat. I used to give freeze dried as a meal substitute until I read manufacturer cautions that they are occasional treats only and should not substitute for a meal. Good ones appear to be Tetra Gammarus and Omega One Bloodworms.

You want high protein in a Betta's diet. Fluval Bug Bites Tropical Fish Formula for medium fish is especially good. I've compared New Life Spectrum, Omega One and Aqueon (regular) to the Bug Bites. While the others are okay the Bug Bites have the highest protein (40%) and fewest fillers. They are mainly Black Fly larva.

The most common cause of bloat is poor diet. So feeding needs to be changed. We know Hikari is full of fillers so it needs to take up residence in the trash can. You want a process of elimination so no more freeze dried or treat wheel for at least six weeks. A link to the treat wheel would help.

Fish prone to bloat should be fed 3-5 times per day two pellets. You want t to narrow down why he bloats so start small with only his pellets. I'd go with the Bug Bites for the reasons above. Feed two pellets 3 x per day. If you follow that strictly and he hasn't bloated in 7-10 days, you can go to two pellets 4 x per day. Meals should be at least three hours apart.

I'm conservative and if he did well on just the Bug Bites I wouldn't dare add anything else. Maybe try three pellets at a time but that's it.

Hope this helps both of you. If it's intestinal bloating this might work and as there's evidence intestinal bloat contributes to SBD if he has SBD the changes may also alleviate that. 🤞

Dissertation done!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Lol @ "dissertation". You're great! Online raves about a variety of foods. Will I be able to give him frozen Daphnia during the time or after? Can I continue to serve Omega One bloodworms?



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> A link to the treat wheel would help.


Here you go: Zoo Med Dial-a-Treat
Its not Hikari brand, my mistake. 




RussellTheShihTzu said:


> If you follow that strictly and he hasn't bloated in 7-10 days, you can go to two pellets 4 x per day. Meals should be at least three hours apart.


I'll definitely pick up the Bug Bites tonight!
This feeding schedule, I'm at work for a better part of 9 hours per day. I won't be able to commit to frequent feedings 
What can I do about this?


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## ThatRockDog (Oct 28, 2020)

That's so awesome to hear that your Lil' buddy is exploring and being his fishy self!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

D'aww, thanks Rocky. He is very on and off. 2 days ago, he decided to just hang out close to the surface and was somewhat bloated. But this morning, he was resting on some leaves and swam around more. Its hard to guage where he is in comfort until I pass some time and revisit him later. 

I'm just glad that, despite his condition, he always comes to say hello and gives me a little nibble once and a while when I feed him. 

I went to my local petstore for the bug bites, but they didn't have any available for Betta and they didn't carry any Northfin either. Im gonna pop over to Big Al Aquarium and try there. I'll also look into the floating hornwort too. It looks really good in @Veloran tank.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed!


 You're too kind always. 😅


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I'm not sure they make Bug Bites specifically for Betta? Hope the Big Al's trip was successful.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'm not sure they make Bug Bites specifically for Betta? Hope the Big Al's trip was successful.


Oh. Lol. So just the tropical one is enough then? Got it.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Updated side pic of him today. Bloated and curved tail. He pooped today though. Little amount, like a ball. Light brown.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

When did you last feed him, what did you feed and how much?


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> When did you last feed him, what did you feed and how much?


I fed him 2 bug bite at around 8am, 2 more at 6pm. He became like this after 2nd feeding, took pic an hr later.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'm not sure they make Bug Bites specifically for Betta?


There's a Bug Bites Betta Formula in flake form


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I thought i read that somewhere. But I saw that the tropical one should be okay, since I fed tropical flakes in the past and it had the fly on the top like @RussellTheShihTzu mentioned.

He was somewhat the same in behaviour yesterday as well. However, this morning he was settling on some of the leaves at the bottom. So I thought he was having a better day today. Then, after his second feed, he became swollen once more.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hoping he keeps on fighting. The issue with the spine bending is swelling in the organs that puts pressure on the spine. If it's consistent, then it's a problem, but if it goes way, hopefully there isn't too much of an issue.


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'm not sure they make Bug Bites specifically for Betta? Hope the Big Al's trip was successful.


Fluval makes a betta specific one but the ingredients are almost exactly the same as the tropical formula. Main difference I see is the betta formula is 45% crude protein. Something I just noticed when comparing is they both have copper sulfate. Is that bad if you have snails or shrimp?















tropical formula for comparison down below
















sorry I know the picture is funky the bag is too full to lay flat haha. 
this whole swim bladder thing has been a real roller coaster @tianikki I hope everything is going better today. Good vibes to you! 💜


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

_Old photo of LH on a really good day._









Hello everyone. LH was really bloated the last couple of days, so I fasted him for about a day and a half. I came home today and he looked somewhat better. At one point, he was even at the bottom of the tank. I guess he really forced himself down and just use the leaves of the plants to hold him in place.
I fed him to pellets this evening, then he fluttered his way to the hammock and lay down. It was kind of cute actually. I didn't notice any poops in the tank.

As for the bug bites, they haven't been sinking and I haven't noticed any changed behaviour in Gilbert. So, so far so good? Maybe a sinking pellet would be better for him. At least that way he won't have to gulp in the air. But then you would have to swim towards the bottom of this super long 10 gallon tank LOL. I can't win.

Do any of you find it easy to tell if your Betta has pooped or not?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I'd lower the water level or put him back in the smaller tank.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Bloating is gone and he is happily swimming in the morning.









He must have had a good night because he seemed very comfortable when I checked on him. He even gave my cat, Barbie, a show. She was mesmerized for a good half hour. 

When I returned home, I went to feed him again and he was back up top. Not bloated, but not willing to explore either. There was some cloudiness on top of the water that I cleaned up. It was about half a gallon worth. It almost has this gel-like consistency. What is it? Bubbles too. 

I replaced the water and treated it. The 2.5 had this as well. Where does it come from?

@RussellTheShihTzu Very much considering to move him back to the 2.5. I'll plant it to give it a more natural vibe. I'm even tempted to get a 2.5 long as the minibow is also tall. I have my head in my hands right now.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I just bought a new 2.5 and a Finnex Stingray II light for my HMPK so he can "live" closer to my end of the sofa. 

I don't know if you have a PetCo or PetSmart, but they are $15 US. Big Al's doesn't advertise 2.5 so it might depend on location. Aqueon and Marineland make them.

Very pretty tank.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

I bought the bug bits for medium to small tropical fish. Its has a finer consistency. His tummy got round, but it deflated right after and he continued swimming around the tank.

Hes currently exploring, you can see below. Perhaps this method will work best?

In the meantime. I'm still scaping the 2.5g. Perhaps I can load it with some shrimp just for fun. Judging how LH reacts to the new food, I can switch them all over.


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## tianikki (Sep 9, 2020)

Updates on LH!

Hey yall, LongHa has been doing much better lately since switching him off the pellets to a more finer fish food. 
He was bloated again yesterday up until this morning with the same symptoms as always: bobbing, crooked tail, unable to dive, etc. I fasted him that day and checked on him late in the morning and he was swimming near the bottom of the tank. By doing this signals to me that he's feeling much better, so I fed him. 
One of my anubias floated to the top, but I left it there. At one point, I saw a small nest there. I need to look for some floating plants soon if he appears to enjoy this. He doesn't use the floating log or the leaf hammock. He prefers to wedge himself between a plant and the glass to sleep. Unless he's bloated, then he leans against the corner where the current doesn't touch him. 

This white film I have in my tank doesn't seem to wanna budge. Tank has been reshaped, as well as his old 2.5g. See below.

















Ps, LH and Hubert get along quite well. Tank mate ideas? 2.5 stocking ideas?


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