# How many betas are needed for a pond/artificial lake?



## morius (Dec 9, 2012)

I guess most of us here own normal tanks, but does anyone actually have a pond where they've had bettas breed naturally? I've seen lots of people with koi ponds, which led me to wonder if anyone has a betta pond.

My grandparents have a small artificial lake in their ranch, and when they filled it with fish (I forgot what kind), they needed more than a thousand as far as I remember.

So, for the sake of curiosity (since I don't have a pond), how many bettas are needed per cubic meter/foot? And what should the male to female ratio be?

EDIT: I just realized I wrote "betas" instead of "bettas" on the title >___>


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

There are not enough B's to go around ;p

Just kidding :lol:

Anyways, I do not think there really is a set ratio... Example: If I had a 35 gallon pond (the one you can set up and take down) I'd shove it full of live plants with soil/sand, add in some snails here and there, and would probably place 2-3 males and probably 10 or more females. Depends on the shape, size, and what natural stuff I could stick in there :3 (driftwood, rocks, etc). Personally I think it would be a preference teamed with the set up.


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## morius (Dec 9, 2012)

Do you think 35 gallons would be enough for them to naturally breed though? I have a 10 gal tank, and if I imagine something about 3.5 times its size, it still seems a bit small to me for them to naturally breed.

Why would the snails be necessary for this kind of set up?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

My grow out tanks for juvies are 30g.. 35 isn't all that big. I'm sure a pair may breed in it (full to the top is pretty high for them.. the male would have a lot of trouble keeping up with falling eggs/fry.. and then from the one spawn it would easily be too many bettas for that size (gallon wise). If shallow then you have to deal with dropping temps on cool nights which can kill all the bettas in a single night.

IMO 35 gallons is not nearly enough for what Sena had mentioned, or for more than 1 male to be placed in there.. imagine a 35g tank, sorta big, but not all that big in reality.. since naturally a single male betta's natural territory tends to be 3ft x 3ftsq.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I was guessing -.- the shape also makes a difference. I was using it as an example, not a "actually use this" thing.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

True.. was wondering because I know you know your stuff! I just worry about the temp fluctuations more than anything, personally.. if living in the Asian countries it wouldn't be bad.. but in the US? Everywhere there are big drops in temps throughout the year.. I know some people use drums and such outside with their bettas, unsure how they keep them warm - something Oldfishlady may be able to tell ya..


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

3ft x 3ft x 1 ft deep (for example) = 9 cu ft total volume 

1 Gallon [Fluid, US] = 0.13368 Cubic Feet

So about 67 gallons. 

Wow. This makes my tanks seem incredibly small. :/


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## morius (Dec 9, 2012)

Well, I recently moved to a hot city in Mexico, but even here the temperatures drop at night. It's not bad indoors, but if the pond was kept outdoors, I'm sure it would be harsh for the fish. After all, "hot" is not the same as "tropical" (the best example would be the deserts, with their huge temperature drops at night).

67 gallons seems more plausible, yes.

But is 35 gal really not big enough for two male bettas? I remember meeting someone who had two males (and like 4 females) in a 15 gal talk without problems. He did mention that his males were pretty tame, so I guess it was more of an "exception".


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

A Bettas typical Betta in the wild is 3 by 3. I would not reccomend 2 males in anything less than 50. Also you would have to keep the pond tropical temp and stop predetors.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Two males and 4 females in a 15 gallon, no way! I wouldn't risk that. I used 35 since it was the only thing that came to mind xD I am also thinking of a LONGER pond rather than rounded, or square. I think I should've meant 50 xD


For outdoor, (I wanted to do growouts outdoor) the most I would worry about is the fluctuations in temperature. Predators depends where you live and where you put it... Having a cover on it might help. I don't know. OFL may know more about this anyways.

Depends really on the size of pond you want to go for... I'd get a pond heater and pump, if anything. Not sure if they have pond heaters xD Ponds are usually used for cold water fish.


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## geek9110 (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm relatively inexperienced, so perhaps this isn't quite right, but I would still think that with a heater it would be concerning. My house is normally high 60s, low 70s and I have a 30 gallon community tank and a 3 gallon betta tank. The temperature easily stays around 78 in both. My family went on a trip for a few days last month and when we got back the house was in the 50s. Both tank temperatures dropped from high 70s to, well, the 30 gallon temperature sticker on the side didn't even register a temperature because it was so low, and my betta tank was like 68 or 70 (I have a regular thermometer for that one). I even lost a platy a couple days later because he couldn't handle the change. Amazingly, my betta, sick with severe fin rot survived it and is still hanging in there!

My dad has a tank in the basement too. He is always struggling to get the temperature into the high 70s. Either we have crappy heaters, or the heaters just can't handle such drastic outside temperatures. If you have a pond outside, it can get much colder than our basement!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Even tropical areas get temp drops at night. Lol. But it doesn't really get that low. . . anyway, IMO it's not really about the amount of gallons but rather the space/area. A tall 50g can't house 2 breeders but a shallow and long 50g might if there are lots of plants and the shape of the pond can hide the two breeders (mainly the males).

If the two males breed at about the same time, they shouldn't prey on fry. Not sure about the females though since breeding females are often known to eat fry. This is where the plants help hide them. At least few will survive to adult. (not considering temp)


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The Males would scare the Females away.


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## aemaki09 (Oct 23, 2012)

This is a really interesting conversation!! 
Definitely puts your mind to work..

Like I believe choclate said, a betta's natural territory is about 3'x3', I'm too sick with the flu to feel like converting that to gallons, but I'd say that as long as you have like 1-2" in depth and had a lot of plants you could easily have a 8x8 pond with some twists and turns with a few males in it


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I know some males will try to expand. Some Bettas will have bigger or smaller depending on area. I think the major probablem would be protecting the Betta.


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## anthonyt20 (Jan 5, 2011)

It could be done 
Im at the moment working on a design for something just like this
But there are also these 
http://www.tractorsupply.com/rubbermaid-reg-structural-foam-stock-tanks-300-gal-capacity-2229935
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...allied-precision-bucket-heater-1000-w-2170534
this one is prob more in my price range once i get to work
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tuff-stuff-products-heavy-duty-oval-tank-110-gal--2229862
They seem like good alternatives to glass tanks as they are cheaper and are better insulated and of course have allot more space for the betta and fry.
Just thought I would say that I am not affiliated with any website lol, Its just stuff I come by when I'm researching.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I doubt the second tub would work. It's big but in terms of space, it's not much (for multiple males). In my 50g (120cm/47" long) the male scouts the whole tank. But who know, maybe with lots of plants it might work. The first tub (over 3m long) seems more feasible. 

The tub/pond doesn't have to be deep. 30cm/-12" deep filled to 20cm/-8" is more than enough. Oh keep in mind that you guys are in a 4 season area so you need a way to heat the whole length of the pond.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Also put netting over it to protect them.


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