# IBC and Veiltails?



## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

I have been talking to a few folks trying to get a place in the IBC for Veiltails, the current powers that be need to be ousted before this can even have a chance.
I have information from a reliable source that some of the hopefuls are considering a place for Veiltails.
Of course they will have to have form and color expected from a show class fish, I blame the demise of many strains directly on the IBC because of the requirement to get say the blackest fish, right off the bat strains like Black Lace are eliminated, we were super close to losing the true red betta, instead in its place Cambodian crosses which will never have the dark red we would like to see because of the genetics.
They also did this to the dark orange betta {Cambodian Cross} thus also eliminating th True Classic Cambodian, why do I blame the IBC?
Fact is its a supply and demand thing, breeders overseas and here produce what pople are looking for so if they don't want black edges all the good reds are bred to Cambodian stock, and Cambodians in the IBC are considered Bicolors.
This is a very bad way to do something..The Classic Cambodian is a strain that breeds true and is worthy of its own class as are a couple others.
The IBC at best needs to be cleaned up the current powers are comfortable the way things are, not good they are not willing to bend, I used to be proud to be an IBC member back in the old days when things were exciting and Halfmoons were new, if those same HM were considered a fault, the betta world would be lacking one of the better things to come out, but the leaders at the time were young Turks and change was embraced...I sure would like to know who the Einstein was that considered the Feathertail a fault, thinking like this will be the demise of this craft yet.
The already overloaded and over abused Bicolor class need to be reevaluated and exclude strains like Dragons, and Mustard gas along with true other breeding strains these should have their own CLASSES period!!!!
I understand trophy cost money, give ribbons for new classes until they become established, they mean the same thing and are far cheaper to produce, split shows to allow other classes in, the focus on the IBC is not the fish anymore it is about the power and control and individual has, this was not so years ago.
For more info you can look at Betta Source.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Why is this in the "contests" section? I agree with you that the ibc destroyed some strains. I have to disagree with you on feather tails. Having that much finnage is awful for the fish, and breeding them creates x-factors, basically extremely deformed fish.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

+1. I am a huge VT fan and it makes me sad that worthy VTs can't participate!!!


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

I don't think you are allowed to advertise other forums here, and betta source is a forum... 

I know the IBC is getting ready for elections now, correct? While I completely agree with the point you are making, this is not the proper place to discus IBC politics


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Sorry I wasn't aware of the issues of posting about other forums, and for the first admonishment I didn't know where to post this, I thought since there was info about Veils here, this would be the place to put this.
As far as discussing politics, I am not a politician I am a betta breeder and a Veiltail lover,,I was making folks aware.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

We have a section to discuss the showing of bettas! I think that would be an appropriate section for this topic. 

http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=146

I am a veiltail lover as well! I would love to see them in shows and plan on breeding this summer. I have a beautiful male betta that I got from Aquastar back in January I would like to breed if he's not too old by the time I'm ready!


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

I have been a breeder for most of 40 years, I am aware of heavy finnage and like any other trait it can be controlled, I I know this I have a line of them going with no deformity what so ever, I am also a geneticist Schooled at one of the Major universitys and finished top in my class.
Genetics and Icthyology.
HMs can also have an over finnage problem if bred wrong also Rosetails so this isn't my first dog and pony show..I was also there when the very first marbles were picked up by Walt Marus from Orville Gulley I had them on my lap...just so you know, Walt was my mentor..I was around for many things.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Wow. Darth you have earned the right to your opinions. I am trying to learn more about betta genetics and marbles in particular. Would you mind if I pm you questions some time? Thanks.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

That is quite an impressive record and congratulations! I'm just saying that it is proven that breeding rosetails can lead to deformaties and there is no denying that the finnage weighs down on the fish. It happens in hm as well, but definatly not as much. An opinion is just that- an opinion. And one opinion is every much as valid as the next. No need to brag.


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

I agree with you Darth..on certain point like colors ( simply put, bicolor class, dark bodied and light bodied are kinda "overloaded" ). Am not an IBC members myself but I think at least so far...IBC, perhaps, is "the most legitimate" organization. But as with any other things in this world..there will be different opinions on certain things and sometimes it's very hard if not impossible to have an agreement on those things too. Here in Indonesia..we have several "organization" that have their own "standard"..like InBS for example...affiliated with IBC and so the standards for InBS show is similar with that of IBC, and there's also others like for example BMII, which has "their" own standards like more colors class ( cambodian and dragons class for example ), "higher" standard for finnage ( over 180 spread has advantage when compared to "regular 180 spread which as far as I know in IBC standard..valued the same ). My point is..if you have such a long "track record" and experiences on "betta world", why not "create" your own standards ( along with those who may share same opinion with you ) and/or organization. Don't get me wrong, I'm neutral in this case, neither pro or con with your "idea" to "take over" IBC ( that's how it sounds to me from the way u describe it ).


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Not at all Logistics, I can tell you though some times things come up that are stumpers I will do my best and I am always learning myself I do not think I will ever know as much as I would like, things have changed a lot and genes have been so messed up EXAMPLE: Spawning 2 royal blue in the old days would give you Steel, and an old name called Cornflower Blue, Royals and TRUE Green not turqouis but actual true green not any longer.
You are right to a certain extent Matt you also have to have a bit of prior knowledge of the lines your fish are from My feathers do not have any faulty genes so I haven't experienced any deformity, this does happen however and you are right about the fish that are tail weighted I always throw Plakat blood in from time to time to beef up the rays and body this gives the fish the strength to carry the mass, also DT here and there to give the top line better form and also beef up the body.
I am not trying to be a braggart jut giving some back ground so you can take me as credible.
I also back then had a fertile line of blacks based on red rather than steel blue..now we have the superblack and the melano may get scarce.
I just bred a Veiltail with superior orange genes to a veil tail because I want the coloring after a couple gens it will work out nice seems the last hold out for the original genes of certain strains are?.....You guessed it good old curtain tail!!
Ok back to the show thing, a great Veiltail should have fins that overlap or touch the topline is judged the same way as for HM.


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