# Betta fin rot or something else? HELP PLEASE!



## Bakerina78 (Sep 14, 2013)

Somebody can help? It’s September 13, 2013. My Betta fish had a fin rot. I used E.M.ERYTHROMYCIN (API) for 2 days. Instruction says need 4 doses, but some people said.. it’s too much. Didn’t want to kill my fish with medicine. 
I found I have ammonia in a tank. It’s 5 gallons, and I do gravel cleaning every week. But I guess I was overfeeding him. 
First when I saw hole in a fin, I thought he damaged it. I took out silk plant ( had few plastic details) and next day I saw chunk of fin missing. I treated him with E.M. Erythromycin. Looks like fin rot stopped, but I am not sure about body now… it’s look like it have different color, exactly under fin which was rotting. Does anybody knows what to do?? And what is it fin rot, body rot.. or just reaction after ammonia in the tank??
Thank you!

video on you tube. camera did want to focus on fish, but if you could watch all video, there some clear moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxKY1IMtM8g



Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gall
What temperature is your tank? 79-80F (24-25C)
Does your tank have a filter? YES
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? NO
Is your tank heated? YES
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? NONE

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? PELLETS AND TETRA FLAKES FOR BETTAS
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 TIMES ( I WAS OVERFEEDING.. STILL NOT SURE HOW OFTEN TO FEED HIM?)

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? ONES PER WEEK 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? CYCLE TETRA OR NUTRAFIN

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 1.2 SHOED MASTER KIT
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:
pH: 7.5 – 7.8 NEVER CAN SAY WITH MASTER KIT! GOING TO GET API TOMORROW
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? LAYING ON THE BOTTOM OF FISH TANK
When did you start noticing the symptoms? SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 8 HAD SMALL HOLE IN THE FIN
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? E.M. ERYTHROMYCIN (API)
Does your fish have any history of being ill? NO HAD HIM FOR 1.5 MONTH
How old is your fish (approximately)? NO IDEA


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## kmolski (Sep 13, 2013)

Ok i watched the video and its hard to see what you are talking about. I see a large hole but at one point it looked like that is where the fins separate. Is that what you are talking about? Could you give a specific time in the video of when it is clear to see?


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## KathyR (Sep 14, 2013)

Not the best video... no offense, but we need to see it to help you a bit more


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*new photos*

Sorry guys, I know my video stinks, but there few moments where you can see. But I didn’t explain properly. I made few more pictures. Hope you can see. Camera just don’ t want to focus on him and when it does.. he turn and look straight on me. As I said I made 100%(95 I would say) water change, and I added 50% water from my 55 gallons fish tank and 50% from tap water with conditioner. He acting today like always – come to see me every time I walk in to the room. But he has spot, which look kind of brownish just under place he lost his fin. Today I see very small spot on his fin again and I can’t understand is it progressing or not??? Should I add more medicine E.M. or should I add salt??? 
I read so much about what people do, and all information different. I put carbon back to my filter and I added Catapa tea leaf to lower PH.. and I read somewhere it helps when fish has fin rot.
Hopefully it’s clear now. 
Thanks again for reading!


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## KathyR (Sep 14, 2013)

That fish is going to die very soon. That probably stinks to hear but its the truth. You need to do some emergency medications and care.

bettafish.com - PLEASE HELP! Betta fish has fin Rot!
bettafish.com - Fin rot or torn, need help asap
bettafish.com - Not sure if betta fish has fin Problems


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Bakerina,

1) Erithromycin is a great antibiotic that treats gram positive bacteria. However, most aquatic illnesses (including fin rot) are caused by gram negative bacteria. So it's likely that the erithromycin won't be effective.

2) Adding Catapa leaves was a great idea. It will lower the pH slightly, which inhibits some bacteria. It also releases tannins (which turn the water brown). Tannins have minor antimicrobial properties as well. However, Catapa isn't enough to cure such advanced infection.

3) I would stop the Erithromycin and switch to a good gram negative, or broad spectrum, antibiotic. Here are my antibiotic recommendations, in the order that I would use them:

*Kanaplex (kanamycin)* - This isn't widely available at petstores, so call around to see if one near you carries this. 

*API Furan 2* or *Bifuran* or *Jungle Fungus Clear *- if you can't get the Kanaplex quickly, try one of these. They contain furan antibiotics which are effective against many types of gram negative bacteria.

If you can get the *Kanaplex and a furan med*, at this point, I would combine both. The rot is dangerously close to his body. It's best to stop it before it impacts the body.

*Is your ammonia reading 1.2 ppm?* If so, this is dangerously high. Ammonia can burn fins, and lead to infection setting in. If your ammonia is this high, I would do a series of partial water changes today: If your ammonia reading is this high: Do a series of FOUR 25% water changes today. Wait at least 15-30 minutes between each. Then, retest your ammonia, and tell us what the reading it.

Also, increase your water changes even if your ammonia reading isn't this elevated. Water changes are is very important, as it's the only way to remove toxins and bacteria from the water. I would do DAILY 50% water changes right now, even if your ammonia readings are zero.

If you can't get Kanaplex and/or one of the Furan meds, let us know and we can make some other recommendations.

Good luck!


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

KathyR said:


> That fish is going to die very soon. That probably stinks to hear but its the truth. You need to do some emergency medications and care.
> 
> bettafish.com - PLEASE HELP! Betta fish has fin Rot!
> bettafish.com - Fin rot or torn, need help asap
> bettafish.com - Not sure if betta fish has fin Problems


Let's not freak out the OP. We can't know that the fish is going to die soon so let's help out as best we can with some care and treatment options.

So far - pretty good advice received from our betta peeps. Keeping the water pristine during treatment will go a long way in healing. 

And it does look bacterial so I would lower the temp. down a few degrees at a time to 70 or a bit below. As long as you drop it or raise it very gradually, your fish shouldn't be affected. Bacteria love warmer temps 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Romad - 

70F or a bit below? Brrrrr.....  Do your fish do OK at 70F? I usually recommend dropping it to about 76F for bacterial infections. 

If bettas can take temps that low without suppressing their immune systems, then yes, it would be better than 76F, in terms of slowing down bacterial growth. But I've never recommended it, since I didn't want to go below the mid-70s, as it's considered the lower end of a Betta's comfort range.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Romad -
> 
> 70F or a bit below? Brrrrr.....  Do your fish do OK at 70F? I usually recommend dropping it to about 76F for bacterial infections.
> 
> If bettas can take temps that low without suppressing their immune systems, then yes, it would be better than 76F, in terms of slowing down bacterial growth. But I've never recommended it, since I didn't want to go below the mid-70s, as it's considered the lower end of a Betta's comfort range.


I wouldn't recommend that for any time other than treating a bacterial infection. The average room temp. is 68F so I think they'd probably be fine at 70. Just my .02 and I've only had to deal with it once and that's what worked for me. 

I'd be interested to hear what has worked for other members. If higher than that works just as well and peeps are more comfortable at your temp. range, then I say sure - go a bit higher.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

IMO with bacterial infections it's about finding the balance between keeping the immune system strong and not keeping the bacteria warm... I would say 70 is a bit cold. I would aim for 76.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*what is next?*

Thank you so much for response.
Unfortunately I read list of medicine too late. But I had time to call and find BIFURAN in another city, I will go tomorrow there. Nobody had KANAPLEX 
I got aquarium salt today. But when I came back home I can see his new hole on a fin is getting bigger and top of the body look worse. So I used E.M. ERYTHROMYCIN again.
I did 100% water change yesterday I used 50% from my big tank and 50% tap water with conditioner. I got API test today. It showed PH 8.2!!! The rest of test showed 0 for NO2, NO3 and AMMONIA. My master kit never showed clear results! I added more almond tea leafs and I added 2 drops of PH level conditioner. Reduced water temperature a little bit.
Just have a question. Hopefully he will still be alive tomorrow. If E.M. in the water already and I will get BIFURAN. Should I do water change again? If I will mix E.M. and BIFURAN what will happened?
Thank you guys so much!!!
p.s. I promised to my fishy (his name is Horje) I will buy him 20 gallons tank if he will survive!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Having erithromycin and bifuran in the tank at the same time isn't a problem. They are effective against different types of bacteria.

If there was any improvement while using the erithromycin, I would keep using it and finish off the treatment cycle.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Having erithromycin and bifuran in the tank at the same time isn't a problem. They are effective against different types of bacteria.
> 
> If there was any improvement while using the erithromycin, I would keep using it and finish off the treatment cycle.


Thank you so much! I will see how he looks like tomorrow morning, but I am going to buy Bifuran anyway. I did only ½ of treatment, because pet-store owner said E.M. can be too much for fish and you can kill him with it. But I guess it’s same like as would be for human.. if you didn’t finish antibiotic treatment it’s not helping!


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*Kanaplex*

I got *Kanaplex (kanamycin) **today and API Furan 2. *
*Would you recommend how to use both of those medicine, plus water changes?*
*I did 25% today ( I had E.M. from last night) and I added Kanaplex (kanamycin). *
*Looks like rot didn’t stop. He has new hole on his fin and tail! Very small, growing but not so fast like first time I saw it last Sunday.*
*Since last Sunday I did 3 doses of E.M. and one dose of Kanaplex today.*
*Thank you! *


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Great! OK, some questions, then some recommendations.

1) Do you use tap water in your tank? 
2) If so, can you do an ammonia test on your tap water and tell us the reading? Use water straight from the tap. 
3) Can you post some current photos so that we can compare what he looks like now to how he was before? 

Since the erithromycin doesn't look particularly effective despite using it for about a week, I would switch to the other medications. Here's how I would do this:

*Today (Day 1)*: 
1) You've added the Kanaplex already. Don't do anything else.
2) Be sure the filter media has been removed from the tank. Store it in a bucket of water.​
*Tomorrow (Day 2)*: 
Kanaplex is active for 48 hours. Do nothing.​
*Day 3*: 
1) Do a series of two 50% water changes. Wait at least 30 minutes between each one.
2) Kanaplex - redose. Follow the instructions on the box. 
3) Make a decision:

If he looks better - Do nothing else.
If he doesn't look better - Add the API Furan 2. Follow the instructions on the box.

*Day 4: *
1) Kanaplex is still active. Do not add more.
2) API Furan 2 - Redose. (If you've decided to add it.)​
*Day 5:*
1) Do a 50% water change. 
2) Kanaplex - redose. 
3) API Furan 2 - redose. (If you've decided to add it.)​
*Day 6:* 
1) Kanaplex is still active. Do not add more.
2) API Furan 2 - Redose. (If you've decided to add it.)​
*Day 7:* 
1) Do a 50% water change.
3) Make a decision:

If he looks better - Decide whether another round of antibiotics is needed.
If he doesn't look better: Redose both the Kanaplex and Furan 2.

Keep us updated! Post pictures if anything changes, too.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*fin rot didn't stop *

My poor guy still suffering .. nothing helping I did kanaplex and furan-2.. but it’s going and eating him slowly. 2 weeks I am doing treatments. But one thing surprising me – he is acting like he would be 100%. ALWAYS comes to see me when I come to his fish tank.

Please, give advice what to do? I still hope he will survive!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

So the Kanamycin / Furan 2 combination didn't work at all?

Did the Erithromycin work better?

These three antibiotics should treat just about all aquatic bacterial infections. (Unless the bacteria is resistant to it.) So maybe it's not bacterial.... 

What's the current water temperature?

Some options:

*1) Hydrogen peroxide swabs: * 
If you can remove him from the water....
Dip a cotton swab (Q-tip) in hydrogen peroxide. Run this along his back (dorsal) fin. Do not add hydrogen peroxide directly to the water. Just use a cotton swab to disinfect the wound.

2) Can you get *AP Quick Cure*? (I don't know where you live, but Walmart carries it.) If you can't get this, can you get *API Fungus Cure*?


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

Thank you, i did swabs tonight.. will se tomorrow how he looks like.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry and good luck


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*new pics after swab*

I actually did BIO BANDAGE swab instead of hydrogen peroxide. 
His fin looks worse than before treatment, maybe because we had to touch him with a q-tip. But I am still surprise – he acting like he would be 100%. Looking for food around. I really hope he will survive!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I had to look up Bio-Bandage. The website says it contains: _Neomycin sulfate, methylene blue, cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12), binder, adhesion agents in isotonic, aqueous solution._

So that's another antibiotic..... 

Is his body turning black? I'm concerned that the infection has moved past his fins and into his body.....


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## Jennifer Vazquez (Jul 12, 2013)

He is looking bad, I didn't see if you added AQ salt or not, but that works for my bettas. Good luck and Keep trying.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*My betta update*

I don't know how is my betta still alive???
I found because I made photos it's easy to compare what's going on.. 
I surprise why he still swimming like before when he was healthy???
and he has good appetite...

One more question... how fin regrow look like???
I can see on his top fin 1 millimeter of bluish line coming… but I afraid it’s my imagination… 
And my hope  … body is rotting and fin is growing.. it’s not possible 
I do Bio-bandage treatment for him.. he hates it!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, that looks like new fin growth to me. 

What about his body? Is his body turning more black, or is it less black?


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Yes, that looks like new fin growth to me.
> 
> What about his body? Is his body turning more black, or is it less black?


 
His fin is growing!!! I see a bit more today, he acting like a normal, comes to see me.. ALWAYS wants to eat!.. but his body getting black  and I can't explain it???!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you post a new photo so that we can compare it to the previous ones?


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*he looks so bad now *

I thought infection stopped after I used bio-bandage, but I just slowed down for few days. Now it’s getting worth. ALL his body is brownish-black now. His bottom fin look thinner at the bottom, so even if it’s not rot from the end… it will rot from the body’s side. Looks like he rotting from top to bottom, Rot got through his body and attacking everything! I tried everything! My fish went through aquarium salt, E.M. Erythromycin, Kanaplex, bifuran, fungus cure, bio-bandage!!! I change water every day, I bought digital thermometer!
I wonder, when he will lose his bottom fin…. Will he still swim?? His top fin is growing, very very slow but I am sure it’s fin regrowth! 
He has it 3 weeks now


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## kayhay88 (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh Im so sorry your poor guy is suffering. I'm haven't had to deal with anything like this yet my finrot is minor and Im using beta fix and stress coat, but I know that probably wouldnt work for this type of thing. Good luck, I hope things click and he starts to improve! He seems like a trooper! Will be checking for your next update!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Bakerina. I'm sorry to hear about your guy but it's good that he is still eating and swimming normally.

It does indeed look like his fin is growing back but unfortunately the infection has progressed to his body. I suggest using the Kanaplex for two weeks total. If, after this amount of time, the black has not spread further and he continues to act healthy, then we can stop treatment and watch him. If the black does not spread, then it means the infection was stopped and the infected tissue is dying off so new healthy tissue can grow back.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

*Betta update*

Hi guys,
New update. My Horje still alive  He looks like only Mama could love him  and she still does 
His top fin growing, I am adding Stress coat every water change (double doze). He swim a lot last two days and always looking for food! Now he has variety of 5 different types, plus at 5pm he gets few frozen blood warms and I bet he knows what is coming at that time! 
His bottom fin still looks like he is loosing it, but I can’t really say if it stopped or not. So I do Kanaplex (today was 2nd doze), but I stopped do bio-bandage. I think he got enough of that.
He often goes on top and get air, didn’t see him do it before so often, but maybe because I observe him more right now. Anyway, I still didn’t give up and I hope he will recover after this disaster! 
LiitleBlueFishlets and Sakura8 thank you so much!!! Just wonder, if I will see fin rot stopped shoud I stop kanaplex before 2 weeks?
Should I still keep 76F ( he is hanging a lot around heater!) On Sunday got hot in a room and his water was over 77F he was moving much more.
I don’t want to overdose him with kanaplex, he is on meds 3 weeks by now!
Thank you again for advices and care!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am glad he is alive and loved , and eating lol We love him too. I hope he will continue to improve. Now i don't want to destruct Sakura or LittleBlueFishlets from your question.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

Maybe it’s to early to be happy. He is slowed down today and looks like his tail has rot now 
Going to stick with kanaplex, like Sakura8 advised. He is real trooper!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Bakerina,

Yes, I would keep using the Kanaplex. It's one of the few antibiotics that treats internal bacterial infections. So hopefully, it'll treat the internal infection that's causing his body to turn black, and also help with the fin rot too.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Bakerina. Can you lower the temp in his tank to about 76? This will slow down the growth of bacteria but keep him warm enough. If he is still looking bad after two weeks, we will continue with the kanaplex but if his tail fin looks like it is getting rot, we may want to add API Furan-2 or Hikari HealthAid Bifuran along with the kanaplex.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How he doing?


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> How he doing?


He is still alive  Look slike molly fish. I keed him in Fingus cure and Kanaplex. Lookslike fingus works. But his fin still disapearing sloooowly, top fin growing. He acting really well and eat like piggy...

I might post more pictures in a few days.
Thanks for asking!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

we will wait for the pictures


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

Sorry guys, I didn't post any pics. I made few shots, but till time I was going to post them. My betta has new rotting spots on his new fin!!! But again, he still swimming lik enothing happened to him ? Ones he even made babble nest. Its 6 weeks passed since he has a problem, and I use fungus cure + kanaplex for last 2 weeks. Didn' t think it will last soo long!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It sounds like we're dealing with a resistant case here. I've seen a few.  Back into the Kanaplex is my suggestion.


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