# Sick fishie...Still not swimming after 3 weeks...



## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

I originally mentioned Fishelstein not swimming in our intro post here:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=86206


but now I would really like some help. Its the 3 week mark and he is still not swimming.

I posted a video here so you can see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpUyd_IqgYg

The gist of it: he's not been swimming for abt 3 weeks. Lays on rocks or floats vertically. Shoots up for air occasionally, then returns back to laying on the rocks. 

No discoloring, no trouble breathing, no noticeable physical symptoms. 
No change in eating habits: pellets

He has been treated for SBD and also had Epsom soaks. No change.
We have moved him to a larger tank (filtered 5 gallons). Ph and heat are good.

Here's an updated of the form thingy:

*Housing *
What size is your tank?
5 gal 

What temperature is your tank?
79ish

Does your tank have a filter?
yes

Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
no

Is your tank heated?
yes

What tank mates does your betta fish live with?
none


*Food*
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
topfin betta food (2-3 pellets morning and night).

How often do you feed your betta fish?
daily

*Maintenance *
How often do you perform a water change?
new filtered tank, plan to do 50% weekly? Was doing 100% on fridays when he was in his bowl. 

What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
In new tank, havent changed that water yet, its only been a day but usually 100% weekly when he was in bowls

What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
start right solution

*Water Parameters:*
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
I have monitors and the ph one looks like 8.2 (orange) the amonia one in negative/safe (silver)

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

*Symptoms and Treatment*
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
no

How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
yes

When did you start noticing the symptoms?
2-3 weeks ago

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
yes
cleaning, fasting, pea, epsom salt, new home 

Does your fish have any history of being ill?
no

How old is your fish (approximately)?
no idea, we've had him a year and he looks the same size/color etc as he did the day we bought him - so I'd say he was an adult at the time of purchase.


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## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I saw your video. It's a shame he's so lethargic. Since you took him home full size, and you've had him for a year he could be around 2-3 years old. That's around middle aged to senor aged for a beta. I've adopted an adult beta and had him for 3 months. He's a grouch compared to my 6 month old betas. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling those adults it the market batches were used for breeding and they weren't needed anymore. So they sell them off. Have you tried offering him some live or pre-frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp, or glassworms? I give my guys one of those at least 1-2 times a week in one meal, with pellets another meal. The extra nutrients may help him get more energy. What is your water source? Well water is the best to use, or decloranated tap water is good to use. Never use RO/bottled water as there are no minerals, and the water will actually drain your beta of his vitamins and minerals. Maybe the light is too bright?  I wish I could help the poor guy. Keep us posted on Fishelstein (cute name  and nice tank btw)


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

He is such a picky eater. He seems to like those topfin pellets the best everything else I end up having to scoop out after an hour or two.

The water is tap water, treated with START RIGHT.

The light - came with the tank, we've only had it a couple of days. It just says it's an LED Light.

Im afraid he's just old, and there is nothing you can do for that, ya know? It stinks that there's nothing I can do for him, other than watch and wait. 

He' even gotten more lazy in this new tank. Before atleast he would swim up for his food. He's figured out that if he just waits - the filter return current will eventually catch the food and push it down to him. So, when he sees food - he goes over to that spot and just lays there with his mouth open...waiting. haha....


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Happy Thanksgiving!

So Fishelstein is still not active.









He does swim up for air, swim up to eat. The end. He loves to wrap around the heater (just like he's spawning with it!) What a freaknuts!









Is it warm enough in there do you think? Or is trying to hump the heater his way of telling me to turn it up? I know that says between 75-79 but I stuck my finger in, and it feels cold to me. Definitely colder than room temp. I can't read the the therma thats on the heater at ALL, but it looks like the orange stops just under the 79 maybe? I dunno...


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Also, I noticed this today with in my pics (you can't see it with your eyes - but in the pics you can) See his chin, and just past his gills on his belly by his little fins? He looks "dry". Is that normal? Because he's old or not swimming? Maybe it's always been there? I dunno, never noticed it before...


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

also today, we have bubbles!
I thought they only made bubbles when they were happy?! He's sick! How is he making bubbles?! He must _REALLY_ like his heater!









ok a couple more questions, then I am done for today...
Is Epsom Salt and aquarium salt the same? 

I read on another fish board you should ALWAYS put aquarium salt in your tank, regardless of the fish. If this is true, how much for a 5 gallon FILTERED tank??





Uploaded all the pics I took today, if you want to look, maybe you'll see something I dont?

Here's all the pics I took on the 21st.

Sorry so many replies on my own thread today, it kept telling me my posts were too big.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

you might want to get a floating thermometer, they are pretty cheap, but far more reliable than those adhesive ones. I'd suggest turning up the heater a bit if he's constantly hugging it. But you need a better thermometer. Too cold a temp will cause them to be lethargic.

A question about the start right stuff, does it say it removes chlorine or anything else?


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Silverfang said:


> A question about the start right stuff, does it say it removes chlorine or anything else?


It says:

_Keep your fish buddy happy and healthy with this complete water conditioner. A complete water conditioner that stimulates the natural secretion of slime to protect fish from the harmful effects of handling, shipping, fish fighting and other stress. Removes chlorine instantly, breaks the chloramine bond, neutralizes heavy metals, adds beneficial electrolytes and guards against secondary infections.

_Here it is on WALMART


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

ok, just making sure it was a dechlorinator. Aside from making sure about the water temperature I'm not sure what else to suggest.

As for your question about aquarium salt it is not needed for regular use. AQ salt is generally only needed for an external wound, but even then should not be used for more than 10 consecutive days as it can cause issues with their kidneys I believe.


After looking over those pictures, you might try lowering the water level a bit so it's easier for him to reach the surface. If the water feels cold to the touch it's probably too cold for him. The do best with 78-80 degrees.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

ok, thanks! I'll raise the temp a little and see what happens. Lowering the water wont mess up my filter will it? The manual for it said the water should hit just under the return lip. I've never had a filter before, dont want to mess it up.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

it might, I was just thinking of making it easier for him to get to the surface. IF you have any soft plants you could float, that might work as well


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

He does lay on those leaves some. They aren't silk I don't think but they are cloth. He seems to like that middle high red one the best.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know if you have a pet store near you, but I'd suggest taking a sample of his tank water in to get it tested, it might reveal something else


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, someone suggested I try to get him to flare. So I did. And HE did. And he swam around mad for a good 5 minutes, giving me the stank eye. Now he's resting in his cave. 

So is it good that he can flare, or bad, or?


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Just wanted to pop on and update. Its been another week, and he still is not swimming. Just lays on the bottom or on the leaves, and comes up for air. He has stopped coming up for food - instead he goes and lays under the water filter and waits for the current to shoot the food down to him. 

Its been over a month now. Im going to assume he is not sick, and is just a lazy fish. Surely if he was sick: after a month of being sick - water changes - tank changes and all that stress involved - he would have passed by now. Right?

I'm going to quit worrying about it, I think. Its been a month and over $100 of trying to cure him of being lazy. lol...


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Poor guy.. that isn't laziness. 

Now you said Epsom soaks... did you just put him in some Epsom Salt and then remove him? If so, that isn't going to actually heal/help him any.

I would highly recommend to use a small soap residue-free tupperware container, float it/tape it inside your tank to keep the temp warm. Or you can use his old gallon bowl. In a gallon water jug with tap water, mix in your water conditioner (amount for a gallon) and 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salt. Shake it real well making sure all the salt is dissolved (you can dissolve the salt in a cup prior to putting it in a jug to make sure it's dissolved). If you use the gallon bowl you won't have to use the jug, just mix it in the bowl while he is in the cup you use for water changes.
You will use that to make your water changes.
You would need to do daily 100% water changes (why a QT container/tank is needed to not mess up your chemistry/bacteria in your home tank), adding in the mix of salt and water conditioner each time. It should only take a week, possibly less, for him to start swimming correctly again if it is SBD (which I hope it is since that is easily treatable.. poor fella).

Hope it wasn't too complicated lol.. but basically it's 2 teaspoons per gallon of Epsom Salt, with daily 100% water changes, adding in the Epsom each time. 

Keep us updated, don't give up- that's not normal for them to be that way.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi again, just updating. I went out of town for a few days, and just got back. (Husband and kids fed the pets while I was gone)

Fishelstein is not doing too good.

His color on his body (not his head) seems to be fading. He almost looks blue grey instead of the beautiful bright blue you see in the pics above, and it looks like some of his scales are missing. Where they should be is WHITE. His face in pics now looks RED though it doesnt look red to the eye or in pics without the flash. There also seems to be white "flecks" floating in his tank. Are these his missing scales? And why hasnt the filter caught them?

He swam up for air when he saw me sit down in front of the tank - and swam around for maybe two minutes. Like he was saying HI. Then he went in his cave, and hasnt come back out.



Myates - for the Epsom soak - I did Epsom, in his little cup thing we bought him in, for 3 hours (which was what was recommended on the site I read about that on.)


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Perhaps you could try full time epsom salt for a week with 100% daily changes.

It might be a more helpful for him to spend more time in a consistent dose. 1-2 tsp/gal should be good to start him off, but don't go above 3 tsp/gal.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

A friend of mine came in from out of town yesterday and took a look at my fishie. He said he would treat him for ick for 4-5 days (and the entire tank), since Stein now has some white patches on him. He said if that makes no difference to then do the constant epsom soak for 3-5 days. Other than that he didn't know what to suggest. So we ran out last night and got the blue ICK medicine from JUNGLE. 

I did take some pics of him before I put the medicine in. You can see them here.

most aren't very good, he was back up against the corner wall and I couldn't get my camera on him good. Here are a few of the better ones. You can see his color is fading, and he almost looks "dry". He also has white patches where some scales are missing....




























Just put the ICK medicine in a few minutes ago. Will update if I notice change or if I decide to go ahead and switch to the Epsom.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Ick looks like grains of salt spread out over the body with him darting/scratching on things.. he has white on him- but it's either his skin or fungus.. not ick.

Again, Epsom Salt pre-dissolved prior to putting him in, go ahead and do 2 teaspoons per gallon, with water conditioner, 100% daily water changes adding new Epsom each time- leave him in Epsom 24 hrs.. should only take a few days to work if it's an SBD problem. 

His scales are starting to pine cone, I would stop ick medicine immediately and do Epsom- once they fully pine cone, there rarely is a chance for recovery... Epsom will help with pine coning. 

Anything secondary- such as missing scales- can be taken care of after the main issue.. missing scales will grow back.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Okay, doing some more reading, and reading from your other thread.. I'm starting to wonder what is going on with him, and that this is most likely not a simple SBD problem, but something else going on with him causing this. (Go ahead and do the Epsom Salt treatment- it's gentle and won't harm him any, and it may make him feel better.)
So, a few questions real fast to see if there is something else going on with him that is on the inside...

When he is in the Epsom treatment, look for his poo- If you use the 1 gal, or small container to float in the home tank, keep it bare bottom..
Let us know if his poo is white and stringy- but if it's normal brown, thick then we can rule out internal parasites.. but look for a couple samples of poo.

You said the face in the pics look red- I don't see it.. but makes me wonder- are those pictures taken with a flash? If so then we can rule out velvet.. if not, then take a picture with a camera using flash, or shine a flash light on him and snap a picture. You can sometimes see it with the naked eye, but using a flash makes it much easier.

The white spots on him.. can you look up close, maybe with a magnifying glass and see whether or not there is an indentation there and that it is an injury deep into his tissue, or if the white looks a little fluffy.. their skin is usually pink/tan, sometimes darker.. not usually white like that unless it's deep tissue. Seeing whether there is a hole there, or white stringy fuzz will determine if he has a fungal infection. 

For now, do the Epsom in hopes to reverse the pine coning and if he's having issues with his SB, it will help.

After 3-5 days and if he isn't up and swimming nicely, and after you are able to answer any of those questions, we can go from there.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi, those are taken WITHOUT the flash. The red you dont see with your eyes - but when you have the flash on the camera it shows up.

These photos were taken DEC 2nd, before I went to Chicago.



















For the bowls..
I do not have a heater for his gallon bowls, that's why we bought the aquarium. I do have the little bowl thing he was in when we bought him. Which you can see in that set of photos. There is not an amount anywhere on it. It looks to hold about 2 cups of water. How much Epsom salt would you put in that? Actually, I have a 2 qrt container I could mix the water in and then put in that little bowl - so how much Epsom would go for 2 qrts of water?


the white - looks flush even with his scales. Its not sunk in. Just instead of a scale there is a white "blotch". Its not fuzzy. It just looks like someone dropped some white paint on him. 


As for poo:
To be honest I have no idea what fish poo looks like. LOL...
I have never seen ANY poo, not even when I cleaned the bowl and rinsed the rocks etc.... I'll keep an eye out though.

I appreciate you all trying to help.
THANK YOU.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

ok, I did 1 tsp Epsom for 2 liter treated water...

He is in his little bowl, just laying on the bottom. Doesnt seem to be having any problems breathing, but is really pineconed out today. 

I don't understand what is happening. Everything I have read on pineconing says pinecone=death.

I don't think I'll be buying another fish. Ever.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Hmm.. that light is making me suspect velvet.. but him having it for a month and is still alive is making me hesitate. 

To answer your question, if you have a gallon jug from water, or even milk that you rinsed out a great deal (no soap added) you can pre-mix everything into the gallon jug (tap water, 1-2 teaspoons of Epsom, and water conditioner dosed for a gallon) and use that to do the daily water changes, that way it will be faster and you don't have to guess the amounts.

Pine coning it usually the sign of certain illnesses when they are at their end- but sometimes you may be able to pull them through, and he isn't pine coning all that much right now- hoping the Epsom will help him with that. 

I'm going to msg someone on here to take a look and see if I am missing something, or if there is something else you could try. I don't deal with a lot of heavy medications, I do more of the conservative treatments.. but I want to make sure there isn't something else you could get to help him that I am missing. 

I'm so sorry this is happening.. sometimes these things happen and we can't do much about it. Don't give up on him, or on another fish- it's always a gamble when getting an animal on their health, but having them around is worth it.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

You could maybe try a bacterial medication like Maracyn or Maracyn 2 combined with 2-3 tsp/gal epsom salt (To help with any pine coning).

If it's a bacterial infection that's internal, it might be affecting his kidneys to start some pine coning.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi BunnyCates, Myates asked me to take a look at your thread so forgive me if I ask a few questions you've already answered. 

This sounds like your guy has possibly had something internal brewing for quite some time, if he hasn't been swimming for many weeks.  I agree with Myates: keep an eye out for any poo. Disgusting as it is, it's a good indicator of what may be going on internally. If you see some, take a pic. I know, eww, but it's gotta be done.

Secondly, I also agree with Pata. For internal bacterial infections, which is what I suspect your fellow has, a combination of Maracyn I and II ALONG with the epsom salt will help. If we had the time I'd probably suggest a very strong medicine called kanamycin but this medicine almost always has to be purchased online and I'm worried we don't have time to wait for it to ship. Maracyn I and II together pack a pretty good punch and cover both gram negative and positive bacteria.

Has your guy stopped eating completely? Have you tried dangling frozen bloodworms down in front of him? If there's any chance he might be eating, try soaking frozen bloodworms in garlic juice and offering those to him.

Even with the photos, I don't see velvet fortunately so I think this is an internal issue only, with the white fuzz spots being either injuries as Myates thinks or a possible fungus/bacteria.

We'll try the Maracyn I and II along with the epsom salts and see what happens. The pineconing doesn't look severe so there may still be time. 

And please don't give up. As both you and Myates have already discussed, Fishelstein's possible age may also be playing a part in this. You're doing a great job taking care of him and he's been well-loved so don't give up. Hang in there!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Where would I find the Maracyn? I live in a very small town. Pretty much all we have is a Walmart. Pet stores are over an hour away, so online is pretty much my only option - unless somewhere local carries it?

He does eat. He has quit swimming up to get it though, he waits for the filter return to knock it down within reach. He eats his pellets. I gave him bloodworms this morning (its his weekend treat) and he did not eat those they ended up in the filter. I'll try bloodworms again in the morning, since he is in this little cup thing and see if he'll go for them.

He is really pineconed out today. Looks almost gray in color. He is not breathing hard or anything though. He swims up for air etc, and swims laps if you pick the cup up. If you aren't pestering him he just lays against the side of the cup.

Will try to take some pics tonight after dinner. Trying to teach my kids how to cook some easy things an tonight is hamburger night. Grease is popping EVERYWHERE. No time for camera a.t.m. haha.....

Thanks again for all the help. We appreciate it.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Kids are eating, had a few seconds.
Heres pics taken about 10 minutes ago.

He does not look good. He hasn't eaten since being put in that cup either. Sorry for the floating food.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, BunnyCates but I don't think he has much longer. That severe of pineconing means the organs are shutting down completely. I wish I had better news for you. At this point, I wouldn't worry about Maracyn or medicines but just try to make him comfortable. I don't think he'll last the night. I'm so very sorry.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

I told the kids earlier I didn't think he was going to live much longer. i think Im more upset about it then they are. I wish I knew what happened. 

Im scared to get another fish, since I don't know what happened to him. 

We literally just woke up one day and he wasn't swimming. He was sitting/standing upend on his tail. Ever since there's just been NO swimming. This has been over a month, abt a month and a half maybe. Had already been a couple of weeks, when I found this forum.

I do appreciate everyones help. I wish I would have found you guys sooner, or noticed sooner, or gotten him a bigger tank sooner.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry.. I wish I had jumped in this thread sooner and possibly been able to help, or find help (thanks Sakura) sooner for you 

Poor guy, worse then I thought..


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

BunnyCates, don't blame yourself. You're doing everything you can. Please don't give up on fish. There are a lot of reasons why bettas die and many of those reasons start in the petstore, with the time they spend in their dirty little cups. And now you also know where to find help and how to recognize signs that your betta isn't feeling well. You're more prepared for a betta than you were before. 

Myates, you're welcome. I'm happy to help but in this case, I'm sorry that there isn't anything I can do.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Probably too late to make a diff, but, I just moved his bowl/cup thing and there is poo. It is light brown on the bigger end with like a cottony fuzzy string off one side of it.... Is that bad poo or good poo?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sounds like bad poo to me. Could be some parasites on top of everything else. Poor boy.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Sigh. Sounds about like what happened with my guy at the end of his life, though it happened much faster. I know how you feel on the "what happened?!" aspect. Gosh. It's heart breaking. I really know how you are feeling...really. I'm so, so sorry. My heart is breaking all over again


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

sorry for your loss purplemuffin.

My MR. thinks I am "being silly" being upset over a "fish" but... he isn't JUST a fish. He's MY fish, kwim?

I might be crazy, but I think he looks a little better today. Still not swimming and still pineconed and bloated, but he has a tinge of blue back and he didnt have that yesterday. Does that mean his scales are going back down? 

He's still not swimming, He didn't even get riled up when I changed his water this morning (6am). just laid in the net, and went right back to the bottom of his cup when I put him back in it. If his gills werent moving I wouldnt have known if he was alive or not. BUT, its 11:30 now, just got back from the grocery store and checked on him and he swam a few laps in his cup,and I think i can see blue coming back in. Probably just wishful thinking but Im not giving up yet.

He hasnt eaten his breakfast today, so not eating. He didn't eat breakfast or dinner yesterday either.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Poor guy.. he may be feeling a bit better with the Epsom.. but again, he may not pull through sadly.

Some never understand how one can get attached to a fish  These guys make it easy for us as they love to interact and dance and play with us. My boyfriend was the same way.. "just a fish doing fish things", but he does realize one can get attached to an animal easily.. and just recently he stole my new betta and has fallen for it. I myself have a boy that I'm crazy for and attached to and it is going to kill me whenever it is his time.

You are doing a great job for him and going above and beyond what most would do. Regardless of the outcome, just know that you gave him a great life and you did all you could.. and if he could say thank you, he would.
I hope he does come through.. we all need a good recovery story now and again


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

You would love Stein. Used to, you could stick your finger in the bowl and he would swim up and rub his back on it. My brothers couldn't believe it. A fish that likes to be petted. LOL... If Stein had been a dog - he'd have been a lapdog for sure. He loves people.

Thanks for saying that, about doing a great job. Makes me feel a little better.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Aww.. he sounds like he is a great little guy.. and he still is, just doesn't feel well :-( they really do love attention from us, especially the ones who are in a tank by themselves.

And I say it because it is true 

I've noticed, with the ones I have who have constant view of a neighboring betta, they still want attention, but they aren't as personal with me. And the ones who are away from the others, love to watch me and my family (including the dog) more, reacts to the movements around them more and as my boyfriend found out last night with the newest guy that he stole from me.. likes to play with fingers lol. He didn't think a bite from them was anything, but he put his finger into "Special Ed's" tank last night and he was surprised and jumped back lol. He keeps him near his desk in the back room and cracks up watching Ed react to him.

Why it made me sad when you said you would be done with them if anything happens to Fishelstein.. these guys need great homes, such as yours and it would be sad to have an empty tank stored in the garage instead of finding a new friend one day and having the joy once more.


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## CrowntailTwitchy57 (Jun 25, 2011)

^+1 

I have an empty tank in my closet ever since Twitchy died of an unknown cause, and I want to fill it again, possibly with a goldfish. I'm so sorry about your fish! It sounds like you are taking good care of him.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Good morning,

Just wanted to update.

Stein is still with us. I just did his morning water change (100%, w/epsom)
He is very active this morning. (10:30am) Still pineconed, but definitely getting some color back on his body. He also looks 'smaller' than before. 

Yesterday he looked huge in the body and was not swimming at all, just laying on his side. This morning he is up and about and even hopped out of the net when I was changing his water. About gave me a heart attack.

He also ate 1 of the 3 pellets of food. He really likes those topfin pellets the best. He wouldn't touch the bloodworms yesterday.

I have told the kids not to get too excited, that sometimes animals have one last energy spurt before the "end". But, in truth, I am crossing my fingers and praying like craycray that he is getting better!

I need to find some breakfast for myself, then will try to post some update pics. 

Thanks again for all your help.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Can anyone tell me if this is the medicine I need? I want to go ahead and order it, incase this pineconing goes down.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753383


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I do hope he continues this upward trend he has going...

Yes, that is the correct medication, that and the Maracyn 2 that Sakura mentioned. You would use that, and 2 and Epsom Salt for him- just remember that the Maracyn medication needs dim/darkness.. so you would want to cover his tank/bowl/cup with a towel or something to keep the light dim for it to work properly.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Mardel Maracyn I and II. Both good for pineconing. I'm so glad he's hanging in there and fighting. Yay!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Here are some updated photos from today
there are several there with and without flash....



















As you can see he is still very pineconed - but he is getting some color back. Seems like down closer to his tail is not as pineconed as the main of his body up by his head. He is also swimming today, in spurts. As you can see in the photos, it was hard to get him because he was doing laps. Lap,lap,lap,rest... lap, lap, lap, rest. I think he wants back in that aquarium, every time I would move the cup - he would head for the tank and bang his head on his cup.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad he has some energy and spunk, he'll need it. To be honest, I wasn't expecting him to hang on for so long. If you want, you can still try the Maracyn II medication along with the epsom salt. What a little figther.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Just what I was thinking- he sure does have a strong will! Go little Stein! 

Sakura- maybe we should introduce Stein here and Bud! 

I so want to get my hopes up for him- but I'm afraid to  Go ahead and if you can do the medications, do them and see; you just never know!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Morning update:

Just did his morning change. He is feisty again this morning and did several laps in his cup, charged the camera, followed my finger, etc etc. He still looks like poop, and can't swim for very long but he is having a good day today!

Look, he's saying "Dont count me out YET people!"









Here's some pics from his morning water change.
https://picasaweb.google.com/117268214175039326096/Fishelstein2011_12_12#

More good news: we are going back to Evansville tomorrow I think, to finish up Christmas shopping so I can pick some medicine up at Petsmart instead of having to wait on shipping!  I ordered some yesterday online but estimated delivery was Jan 4th {}


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

What a tough little guy! After all this, I hope he pulls through.. those raised scales are the only thing that worries me now :-( 
He's definitely a strong willed little guy, he must love you guys so much!

Go Stein!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, Bud and Stein are a pair. I'm definitely rooting for them. It's not impossible to bring a fish back from such severe pineconing. Just almost impossible. But it looks like Stein has a good chance of making those odds. Go Stein! 

I wonder if the epsom salt should be upped? I've never gone beyond 4 tsps . . .


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

For Epsom Im doing 2 tsp per gallon (1 tsp per 2 litre container). Should I do more than that?

Also, today I was surfing/googling and saw a picture of parasite poop. Stein definitely has internal parasites. I am going to a Petsmart tomorrow. Is Maracyn still what Im after? 

Do I need something else to treat the aquarium with also, to make it safe for him and/or other fish?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Stringy white poo? Poor fella..

Clean out the gravel real well with a siphon a couple of times while he is in QT- they can't live without a host, so while he is away anything in there should pass quickly.

For internal parasites Epsom Salt with an anti-parasite med is best. Treat with 1-2tsp/gal Epsom Salt combined with either Jungle’s Anti-Parasite Pellets, Jungle’s Parasite Clear Fizz tabs or API General Cure. I would get the general cure or tabs and not the pellets, unless he is eating just fine- a lot of the fish detest the pellets and can be hard to feed them.

As far as the Maracyn.. umm.. I don't think it would be wise to combine maracyn with anti parasitic medication- you can see get both, use the parasitic medication first, then use Maracyn after.. Epsom is safe and gentle and can be use long term.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Poor guy. Myates, I'm not sure. When I brought home my first direly sick betta, I rushed out and bought General Cure and Maracyn II. DarkMoon told me it was okay, I could use both because I panicked when she prescribed bacterial meds. I saw parasites and bought parasites meds, not realizing at the time that the real problem was the bacterial issue. 

BunnyCates, I would up the epsom salt to 3 tsps per gallon. We've got to leech that extra fluid out of him.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

If Darkmoon said it was okay, then go by her.. I don't like using medicines, so to me using multiple at a time isn't something I think about. You're more knowledgeable in that area, and have learned from Darkmoon- so definitely listen to Sakura, Bunny!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's up to you, Bunny. If you only want to use one med at a time, then it's important we take care of the bacterial infection. But part of his pineconing could also be due to a buildup of nasty parasites inside.


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## Sassington (Oct 29, 2011)

This thread is an absolute nailbiter!! :-\ We're all pulling for you!!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Yes - white and stringy.
Here this pic I saw:










That is not Stein, but thats his poo for sure. Not as long as that one, abt half. But other than that... the same.


So on my shopping list for tomorrow is:

Maracyn I & II
General Cure









Im also thinking about this:









Wouldn't hurt anything, since nobody is living in there right now, right?

I had planned on getting a siphon of some sort because dipping water out with a cup just blows chunks. But while looking online I saw a gravel vacuum for only $15. Is that a good investment?

Hubs is not going to be pleased when I drop another $50 bucks in Petsmart. This is becoming a weekly thing. hehehe....

I was going to try to convince him to let me get a dalmation lyretail molly and a snail but I'm too scared the aquarium is bad, now.

I cleaned the aquarium today, but all I did was dump it and wash it and everything in it with hot hot water and change the filter... I'm scared that's not enough to get the parasites out. Do you think it was? He's not been in there for what 3 days now? How long before they are all dead in the aquarium? It would REALLY suck to get him all better, put him back in there and then him just get them again!

Also, how do they even GET parasites? We've had him so long, and its just him. I didn't add more fish or anything, so how did he get them? And could the parasites be why he got so sick to begin with? Or did he get parasites because he was already sick? Im just curious, so I can keep it from happening again.

This is all too nerve wracking. My pugs have seizures, and I don't stress half as much over them as I do this fish. hahaha.... I think maybe because I know they can go 5 houses up to the vet office, but that woman don't do fish. She looked at me like I was crazy the other day.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Generally all animals have an amount of parasites inside of them, but their bodies keep it under control. When something happens (maybe a temp spike, a day of funky water, or just a bad day) happens and the immune system lowers, sometimes the parasites just are able to fight their way through and establish total control and wreck havoc on the body! This happens in reptiles a lot, usually from the animal coming in contact with their own poo (which is where the healthy body will shed the parasites), so if it works the same with bettas, it could have just been total bad luck and the parasites that were shed totally found their way back to him! 

There could be a lot of reasons to be honest. Not to mention, these guys are HARDY...so even if they are feeling down and sick..they won't show it! He could have been battling parasites for a while.

Could be the parasites making him sick or the sick letting the parasites in..I dunno.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Purple is right, he could have had these worms brewing inside for a looong time. Looks like he has tapeworms, which is a pretty common internal parasite. Blech.

Gravel vacuums are awesome. They make cleaning so much easier. And they come in many sizes so you may be able to get a smaller vacuum for less than $15.

Maracyn II, General Cure. If you want to get the Parasite Guard to use in his tank, by all means. As you said, it can't hurt. Remove any activated carbon before using.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

ok, I got tons of stuff today. This API is a powder and for 10 gallons. How am I supposed to divide that up? My jug is only a 2 litre jug (.5 gallon) I do not have a 10 gallon or even a 5 gallon jug. I have no idea how to mix this stuff.

Today I got:
General Cure
Maracyn
Maracyn II
the tetra parasite treatment fizz tab things for the tank
test strips
air pump w/stone
gravel vacuum
12 pack of filter replacements
a mystery snail

I think thats it, another $100 day. 

They had some GORGEOUS halfmoon males!!!!!!
There was a white one with black tips and the biggest cutest black eyes I have ever seen! There was a yellow one, darting around everywhere - my mr really liked him. Some really pretty ones. They had a whole shelf of CTs, and also dragon ones. I guess it was a new shipment. We were oooooo'ing and ahhhhhh'ing. LOL

I was going to get some tetras and the girl asked me about my aquarium and said that she wouldn't put more than 4 neon tetras to a 20 gallon tank and that they would eat my snail. She also said a molly couldn't live in a 5 gallon tank. She was really trying to get us to buy a 20 gallon one.

ANYWAY... ok, so I got sidetracked...
I dont know how to divide up this general cure. HELP!! D=


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

I did about 1/3 of the packet for a 3 gallon bucket. He seems to not notice there is medicine in his water, so maybe thats good. Fixing to take some pics. Still looks the same as yesterday. Maybe not as bloated....


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

todays pics. 5pm, first water change with General Cure + Epsom Salt
https://picasaweb.google.com/117268214175039326096/Stein2011_12_135pm

lots of blurries, sorry - he was swimming around...
oh, and the new snail, aka Mr Snailerby. =D

WHat do you think, looking better? I say he's getting some color back...

Here's a few of the better ones...


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

omgoodness. 

I cleaned the tank, again. Vacuum'd the gravel. That thing was awesome, and it was on sale. Only paid $8 for it! Thanks for telling me to get one! Made the water change go QUICK and NO MESS!

Took out the media from the filter - that was disgusting. Refilled the tank. Treated with the bettasafe water treater stuff. Then put in half of one of the Tetra parasite guard. Dropped it to the bottom and it fizzed like mad. And then, it made almost like a "shaving cream" coating on the one leaf that Stein slept on, and fizzled there for a few minutes. Now its gone. 

Now there are white like... dots floating in the tank and almost like... skin patches. Like Stein shed at some point. They are white, kind of see through. Like when you get sunburned and peel... if that makes sense. Gross. I really want to put the pad thing back in the filter but it says to wait 48 hours. 

I have Mr Snailerby floating in there in his bag, to get used to the water temp.

Oh, I put in an air stone, and as much as I like it - it sure blows out TONS of bubbles on that one end. I might have to take that back out. Sad, I love the bubbles on the light end. One ever so often. Its pretty. But the other end looks like a volcano. 

ok, blah blah blah... I feel like Im talking to myself. LOL....

Thanks for all your help, 
Have a great night.
~Bunny


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

lol too cute.. you and your little ones. 

The coloration is a good sign if you are seeing more of it.. I'm still waiting to see if those scales go back down. Come on Stein!

Be careful adding your snail in with the medication, a lot of times snails and medication don't always mix well- he may just have to reside in a temp home until you get the medicine out of the tank.

It may be specs of his slime coating you see floating around- bleh!

There are these T cross section thingies.. forget the name, sorry! That you can buy to lower the air pressure going into the hose/tank so the bubbles won't be over powering. Should only be a couple of dollars- they may know the name if you call and ask them. Sorry.. wish I could be of more help, but it seems you are doing everything right.. so I'm just here for support! Gooo Stein!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

What was that girl thinking? 4 neons to a 20g tank? And they'd eat the snail? The snail is bigger than a neon! Bah. I have 10 neons in my 20g, along with 8 rummynose tetras and they're all fine. And no one is eating any snails and I have tiny baby snails.

Stein does look like he's getting color. Yay! Keep up the good work you two!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks you guys! Im really glad he's doing alright with this API. Read some sites where it made the fish spasm and die.  It says change water after 48 hours, but he's in a tiny cup thing not a tank. I can't not change his water in the morning. I mixed up 3 gallons of the stuff, so I'll just change his water in the am like usual but using this treated water...

Honestly, I can't believe he is still kicking. I thought for sure he would pass as soon as I saw his color all gone.

We also swung by my fil's and got his old tank. Pretty sure its a 20 gallon. Its 22in long,18 in tall and 15 inches across. So we were looking at the fishes...

I want some dalmatian mollies, neon tetras, phantom tetras {love}, and they had some gorgeous orange fish with black fins... I think it was a platy? Can't remember now. 

My Mr. wants a pleco but I think they are UGLY. So, we got the snail today, instead. LOL

First i have to clean this tank. It is DISGUSTING. looks like it coated in mud inside where the fish died and he just let the water evaporate out - he never dumped it! *gag* I really want to do the sand and live plants in it. SO I need to get it clean, and I want to take my time adding the plants and getting it ready. Any good sites or places to learn about setting up a live plant tank???

I almost bought a moss ball today, but they only had 3 out and the one was flat. The other two had like yellow/brownish spots on them. Didn't think they looked right so I didn't get one....


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, here is a good place to start for planted tanks. Oldfishlady knows planted tanks well. Just post in the habitats section. I have a 20g planted tank so I can offer what little knowledge I have. Otherwise, I don't know of any good sites. I learned from books I bought, although it woulda been so much cheaper using the web. 

A bushynose or bristlenose pleco would work in the 20g. A regular pleco - those babies get two feet long. And it sounds like you like the red wagtail platies. Unless it had a long sword on its tail, then it's a swordtail.

I'm with you, Bunny, I thought for sure Stein was going to pass that first night you posted. He looked so bad. What a little fighter he is!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Tested my water:

nitrate 0
nitrite 0
Total Hardness 150
Total Alkalinity 120
PH 7.0


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

What kind of test kit did you use?


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

uhh.. just a second let me find the box....


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

ok, I had this

Seachem Alert Combo Pack
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4368193&lmdn=Water+Conditioners

but was told it was not a good tester so I threw it away and got









Sergeant's® SENTRY®AQ Mardel® 5-in-1 Test Strips
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147325&lmdn=Water+Conditioners


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh,, okay. I have those. Lemme see . . . *runs numbers* Your water params all look good. Medium-hard water, ideal alkalinity. Good.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

medicine IS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just went to check on him, since the medicine is a new thing, ya know. Picked the cup and he like cough/gagged and out his mouth popped like wet cotton ball fuzz! Then he sat back like... "ahhhhhhhhhhh" =D
YAY! 

He is not breathing hard or anything so Im not worried this medicine will hurt him. Crossing fingers this makes him all better!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Go Stein Go! He's got a fighter's spirit, doesn't he? What a guy!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

omgosh! My new snail has gone missing! Do they get out of the tank?! OMG! If its not one thing its another!

**Edit: FOUND HIM. OMGOSH! He was climbing on the filter cord. Black on black, and on his way OUT... yikes!!!!!!!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, they can crawl out so make sure you've got a lid on the tank. I think I heard they head for the top to lay eggs? Don't worry, I've thought I've lost my nerite snail before too. Somehow, they always turn up again.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

He was on the filter cord. D=

My tank lid has holes in it, for like wires, and in the front for feeding. BAH! 
haha...

I took some pics of Mr Snailerby, and tried to get some of the white stuff in Stein's cup. Man, when he wiggles and stirs it up - it looks like a snow globe. SO gross....

You can see them here.
the pics of the stuff didn't turn out too good. I couldnt get the camera to focus on it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I love Mr. Snailerby's name, by the way. 

The gunk in Stein's cup looks like it might be excess slime coat, which isn't too surprising. Because he's sick and his immune system is stressed to the max, he's going to be making lots of slime coat.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Just poppin in to update, incase you were wondering... No change since yesterday. Still not swimming, Still pineconed. =( But at least he is still with us, right? Trying to think good thoughts. I think I thought i would wake up today, and he would be fine. Over night miracle cure. 

Still hoping though.

Thanks again, for all your help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you for the update. I was hoping he'd be a bit better but you're right, at least he's still with us and still fighting.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Still no change. 

I was hoping i would be able to tell he was getting better today but no change. Still laying on the bottom of his bowl. Still making lots of white stuff in his bowl. Today it almost looks like someone dumped salt in there, not flakes like before. 

Fixing to change his water again, will post some updated pics in a few.
~B


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Here is todays batch of pics
https://picasaweb.google.com/117268214175039326096/FishelsteinUpdate1011_12_15#

I took a bunch, maybe you'll notice something I dont.

No change to report. He mostly just lays on his side in his cup. If his gills weren't moving, you'd think he was dead. Every now and then he goes up for air and then drops like a cannon ball back to his side.










Also noticed his bottom fin is getting some black on the edge. Great. So on top of everything, he is going to get fin rot. D=

4 oclock this afternoon will be 48 hours on API - General Cure.

His water right now has Epsom Salt + Bettasafe (to take out the chlorine) + General Cure


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sadly, sometimes once we have tried everything we can without improvement....its time to do what is right by the Betta......the selfless act of humane euthanasia to end his suffering.....

While you don't want to give up too soon...you also don't want continue their suffering needlessly......only you can make that choice.....


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

If he were yours, is that what you would do? He doesn't seem to be in pain, but its over a month of not swimming. 

I would love to see him bounce back and prove everyone wrong, but his scales are not going down. And he really can not swim. He manages to get up for air - but thats all he's got. He literally falls back to the bottom like he is loaded down with rocks in his pockets.

I want to save him, Lord knows I do, but I don't like thinking I am hurting him more by keeping him barely going.

I don't know what to do, other than cry.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, Bunny. This is a tough one. If it was me, I would want to end his suffering but I'm unable to perform euthanasia myself. Perhaps your vet friend can do this for you? But if you want to continue to try and fight, we'll help you all we can. I know it's hard but the decision is all up to you. Hang in there!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would love for this fella to prove us wrong....in cases like this I want to be wrong....you are such a dedicated person and have done so much for this special little guy and I give you a pat on the back and a hug.......but if it was me....yes, I would end his suffering as humane as possible...but this is me.....not you...only you can make this decision....and what ever that is...we will support you.....


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

I think I am going to start him on the Maracyn II tomorrow. I've already bought it, so I would hate to give up without even trying it. But after the Maracyn, if there is no improvement- I'll make my Mr. take him to Dr Childs to be euthanized. I can't do it myself, I know that much.

He is able to stay upright on his belly - closer towards the waterchange time. I wonder if the General Cure isn't making him "drunk". Because right after waterchange with fresh General Cure - he goes limp, unable to balance even on his belly. But like right now, he is up on his belly and riggles up for air. He is riggling though, not swimming, and falls right back down.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

I started him on the Maracyn II last night. its now 11am. Not really any change to report. Woke up to VERY cloudy water. Did his water change. He is still pineconed, and still laying on the bottom of the cup on his belly. He did actually SWIM down, today, from getting air tho instead of just plummeting. So that's new. But he is still just laying around. No additional swimming. No trying to get his food. Just laying and watching. He kind of makes a C with his body if I run my finger along the cup. I guess thats his version of flaring, now. 

Going to give this maracyn a couple of days to show some improvement since its a 5 day treatment.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Poor baby. I hope the Maracyn II helps him. You two hang in there, okay? *hugs*


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi guys, just a quick question.
Stein has like white stuff in his cup.
Some of it looks like wet fluffs off a cotton ball, and some of it looks like coconut flakes. Im not sure but I think he is pooing it. He is actually swimming up for air, not just wriggling... and floating there a few seconds before he swims back down. Every now and then he will make a C with his body, like he is spasming. Not often, like every few hours - or if I go pick up the cup. Is this the medicine working? 

Is the white stuff the parasites?
I hope so.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Aww.. he sounds promising but just wish the pine coning would go away, and his color return. I so want to get my hopes up 

It could be parasites, or it could be his slime coating or a mix of both. If you believe he is pooing them out then it may be the dead parasites leaving his body..

Keep us updated, we're rooting for him!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Seems like every time I notice him making a C with his body, right after there is more white. I really want to change his water - but if I do, since I just did it this morning isn't that like double dosing him with medicine? His cup is really cloudy. I took some pics of the white, will upload them in a bit. Not sure how they turned out since the water is cloudy.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Here are todays pics:
https://picasaweb.google.com/117268214175039326096/Stein2011_12_17

This one is a pretty good shot of the white stuff:










and here is one, he went up for air and came back down and accidentally laid down on some of the coconut flake ones... Its not attached to him. I thought he was pooing them, but I just saw one come out of his gills. I dont know if it got in there by accident since he is laying on the bottom or if thats where they are coming from.


sorry if these are gross...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The white fluff is probably excess slime coat that he is shedding because he is so sick. The coconut flakes are probably the tapeworms that he's getting rid of because of the General Cure. 

It's hard to say. It sounds like the medicine is working but I wouldn't say he's out of the danger zone. But at least he's fighting!

Edit: If you change the water, empty all of it out and redose the medicines. Otherwise, if you have a turkey baster, you can try to suck some of that nasty stuff out. They definitely look like tapeworm segments to me.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

yuck. yuck. yuck.
I think I'll change his water before bed instead of in the mroning. I hate thinking of him just laying in that mess all night. *gag*


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

If he pulls through this.. he will give you a big, wet fishy kiss as a thank you!
You're doing a great job


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

haha, cute pic.

Sadly, still change to report.

I changed his water last night before bed, and again this morning when I got up. It seems about ever 6-8 hours the water starts to cloud up. It didn't do that with the general cure but is doing it with the maracyn II. Lots more white floaties this morning as well. He seems tired today, but putting for effort to be mobile. Every now and then he swims about half way around the cup and gets re positioned. Dare I say, he is bored, or tired of being in a cup. I thought about putting him back in a 1 gallon bowl, but I dont think he will be able to make it up for air in one of those, and they don't have a heater. He is actually staying afloat for a few seconds before going back down, so that is an improvement, I think. I was looking at some pics of fish with dropsy, and I am wondering if that is part of what he has. He is looking rather "pitbullish" in the body (wide). Scales are not going down either, and how long have we been doing the epsom? 2 weeks now? I feel like his symptoms - he has a touch of every single disease he could have. 

I need to stop reading those betta disease threads....


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Are you keeping him covered/dim while on Maracyn? I can't remember which one of those, but I know one, possibly both, is light sensitive.. unsure if that is causing issues?

It doesn't look like dropsy..


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Yep, covered with a towel.


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## mardi (Nov 22, 2011)

I really don't have much in the way of knowledge to help you out. But, I thought I would stop by and let you know I've been following this thread, and want to let you know how amazing I think you are, putting up a tremendous fight. You and Fishelstein have one more cheerleader out there rooting for you both.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

mardi said:


> I really don't have much in the way of knowledge to help you out. But, I thought I would stop by and let you know I've been following this thread, and want to let you know how amazing I think you are, putting up a tremendous fight. You and Fishelstein have one more cheerleader out there rooting for you both.



Thanks! Means a lot to me. Really. I enjoy coming to this forum, since most the people in my "real life" think I am crazy for trying to save a "fish". 

xoxoxo


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Bunny, if it makes you feel any better, there was a betta girl on this forum a while back who went for, gosh it must have been a good month or more, with severe pineconing before she finally died of accidental chlorine poisoning. We all felt she would have made it if it wasn't for that accident. So as long as Stein isn't in distress and you feel comfortable with it, then we'll continue trying to treat him. If you can, I would start looking around for Kanaplex. It's a much stronger antiobiotic and if you can find it, I'd feel good about his chances if he switched him to that. 

He can stay in the epsom salt for as long as he needs to, which will be as long as he's pooing parasites and looking pineconed.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Im sad to say that poor Fishelstein has finally passed away.

I did his water change, and he swam up for a few breaths of air, and then laid back down to sleep. 

:BIGweepy:


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## zimmerb0922 (Dec 12, 2011)

im so sorry to hear about this. i haven't made an appearance on this thread but i've been following it and rooting for fishelstein i really hoped that he would make it through this illness and im very sad to hear that he didnt

but he was a fighter and you did the best that you could. very dedicated. im sorry about this but at least you know you did the best that you could


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, Bunny. You and Stein really put up an epic and amazing fight but now he's at peace. I think he tried so hard because he wanted to stay with you but his poor body just gave out. You did a great job doctoring him. And I know this sounds a little insensitive, but at least you don't have to take on the burden of deciding to euthanize him.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> ... but at least you don't have to take on the burden of deciding to euthanize him.


 I know, and for that I am grateful. I still feel like a failure as a "pet parent" though. 



Thanks for all your help. I appreciate the time you put in trying to help us.


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

zimmerb0922 said:


> im so sorry to hear about this. i haven't made an appearance on this thread but i've been following it and rooting for fishelstein i really hoped that he would make it through this illness and im very sad to hear that he didnt
> 
> but he was a fighter and you did the best that you could. very dedicated. im sorry about this but at least you know you did the best that you could


thank you.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

BunnyCates said:


> I know, and for that I am grateful. I still feel like a failure as a "pet parent" though.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help. I appreciate the time you put in trying to help us.



Never! You are so not a failure! *pinches you* Would a failure put in as much effort, time, and love as you did? I don't think so! You did an amazing, above and beyond job as Stein's owner so thinking you're a failure is not allowed. So there.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Don't feel like a failure. You did an amazing job. You kept him safe, warm, clean, and comfortable. Honestly I'm sure he felt relieved finally getting those parasites out of his system. He was just finally able to rest, that's all. You did the best job possible with him, and if little fishes could talk, he'd thank you for giving him such a good and wonderful life, and for helping him finally rest peacefully. When so many others would have given up, you kept going with hope and love. I think that's honorable. I've been watching this thread closely, I feel close to it, it just reminds me so much of poor Dionysus. I'm so sorry you had to experience this. Just know you did your best--You went above and beyond. To give him medicine, rest, comfort. Not many fish owners can say the same. 

<3 <3 <3

I know it seems sad, and we'll miss our fishie friends.. But it's important to remember, there is no reason to feel sorry for them. They finally get to rest and no longer have any pain. No more pineconing, no more parasites. There's no reason to be sad for them, other than that of course we will miss the little ones.  But they get to swim happily, whole and healthy once again within our memories and hearts.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

^ +100 

She's totally right, Bunny.


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## Tobythefish (Nov 14, 2011)

My son and I were so sorry to read this morning (checked first thing!) that little stein had died. Please know that you did all that you could! We are so inspired. We have only had Bettas for about 6 months and have lost 4 already (got a sickie from the pet store that kept reinfecting the tank, and lost one that we were trying to rescue after neglect). Now we have another 'rescue' fish that is struggling, and we started following your thread looking for advice to help Alpha. It is so hard to watch them struggle and suffer! But don't give up on Bettas! We've got two very healthy fish (one that we rehabed after neglect) and they are truly a joy! You've learned so much from this experience, and that would carry over to your next little fish. It is worth it! Thanks for being such an inspiration to us!


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## BunnyCates (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks folks. We let the kids say Goodbye to him this morning, and then my Mr. buried him out in the yard with S & S and my fil's dog Bear. I guess we have a pet burial ground going on out there. 

I really appreciate all the help and support. It means the world to me.
THANK YOU.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry Bunny  You did all you could and then some.. 
He was very lucky to have you and your family in his life. You did great and your Mr. was a real trooper letting you go above and beyond for Stein. 
He is swimming freely under the Rainbow Bridge, smiling upon you.
Rainbow Bridge


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