# Help with Plant



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have had a hygrophila corymbosa angustifolia in my tank for just over a week now and the leaves are becoming transparent and falling off(also some look like they are being eaten).
It is a potted plant and i have added API leaf zone yesterday.
Does anyone know how or if i can save it,and do i remove the dying leaves?
Im new to live plants and dont want to be put off buying any more.
Thanks.


----------



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*How did you add the API LZ?*

I would have used a long transfer pipette or something similar, soaked up the liquid fert & leave it sort of dripping onto the plant. 

I read one several forums to use 1/2 or 1/3 of the recommended dosing because API is assuming your tank is HEAVILY planted. If you only have a few plants then 1/3 or so should be efficient. 

I wonder how the plants would absorb the nutrients by just DOSING the whole tank. That I'm not so clear on. 

Also the light you're using on your tank. Is it rated to 6500K? Anything lower than that may not be in the right color spectrum to promote plant growth. 

Here's a photo of some of the lights I disqualified when I went o the hardware store. The fluorescent were the ones that appeal to me.


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have two of these lights on in my tank..supposed to promote plant growth.

Unfortunately i already dosed the tank yesterday by just pouring the required dosage in to the water,so will have to wait a week and try letting it drip on to the plant(if it lasts that long).

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/fish-box-bright-daylight-15-watt-light-by-interpet-35821


----------



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Checked the link and it doesn't give you a Kelvin rating. 

You need to make sure you know the K rating or the light is useless. Most of my CFL's don't have the K rating etched in the bulb. 

Most of the lights I looked at in the hardware store were in the 2700k or 3000k for the LED ones.

I'm using the Verilux Instant Sun - used by professional gardeners & orchid people. Orchids are HARD to grow. I don't know how I got the bulb, but I have one. 

It's rated @ 6280K & rated for 14,000 hours. They're about $13


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

what size is the tank? and yeah we need a kelvin rating to be able to judge it, it needs to be 6500k or abouts for the plants. 

What substrate do you have? API leaf zone isnt a great fertilizer, it isnt comprehensive and is missing many nutrients. I would highly recommend Seachem line of products, the flourish comprehensive will give you all of your micro ferts but you will still need macro, but it depends on your substrate.


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Tank is 30 gallons with sand substrate...i have searched for seachem and flourish but clearly we cant get that here in UK even on ebay.
Very annoying.:-(

Never heard of the K rating but will look in to it.

Many thanks.


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

the products are definately available in the UK
http://www.swelluk.com/manufacturers/seachem-1206.html

Since you have sand as a substrate you need to use root tabs for any rooted plants, but the plant in question is a stem plant and can get its nutrients from the water column. 

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=139


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Hygrophila corymbosa angustifolia-this is a great stem plant-I have lots of them in my soil based tanks-both this variety and the broad leaf one. Sometimes they are grown out of the water at the nursery and the leaves have to transition from emersed/submersed growth. Its not uncommon to see all the leaves die off, drop as the new underwater leaves start to grow.

Since its potted-did you take it out of the pot and remove any rockwool around the roots-If not, I would recommend that you do that.

As the other posters mentioned-lights are a big factor with successful planted tanks and plant growth. Without the proper color temp lights the plant ferts are useless and will only feed algae. The plant can't see the light for photosynthesis it can't use the ferts.

The bulbs I like to use are-"Daylight" 6500k 20-40w depending on the tank size. I get my florescent bulbs in the lighting dept not the aquarium dept of most hardware type stores and chain stores like wal mart.

Proper color temp lights are in the kelvin of 5000-7000k with 6500k being ideal and closest to the natural sun. The florescent bulbs can lose intensity over time and it is recommend that the bulbs be changed every 12 months....you can see the light but the plants can't to use for energy.

Photoperiod is also important-10-12h/day is recommend. In nature plants get 12h of light and 12h of dark-with an hour before and after of lower light as in the sunset/sunrise-Making a good starting point of 10h/day in the home aquarium to support plant growth. Too short, poor intensity, wrong color temp can sometimes trick the plant into thinking its a season change and either go dormant, die or flower and it can also cause algae problems.

With planted tanks its all about the balance-you have to support the active plant growth so the plants can out compete the algae for light/nutrients.

What I would recommend now-remove it from the pot if you haven't already and plant the roots, make a 50% water only change to get some of the ferts out so you don't cause an algae outbreak, get the proper light bulb in the 6500k range that is under 12 months of age, get on a 10h/day PP for now. If you are using a hood-check the partition between the light bulb and water to ensure it is free of debris or remove it all together to get better light penetration to the plant......And wait...the hardest part especially if it is going through a leaf transition phase.


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I think i should have done more research in to tanks before i purchased as i am limited on bulbs..it takes two..it came with one side a daylight and one side moonlight(both small) i took the moonlight out and replaced with bright daylight(15watt each).

The actual plant has tiny leaf growth right at the base of the pot,so i will take it out of the pot and remove dying leaves and replant.

I also have some Potted Vallis Vallisneria spiralis 'leopard in Qt to plant..think i have challenged myself to much to soon.

Is it wise to remove all plants from their pots?

I feel a little overwhelmed with it all to be honest.


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

Is it fluorescent? Watts doesn't matter as much as kelvin rating and par. If it is a t8 fixture and you use 2 6500k rating bulbs you may get away with low light plants but not much more than that.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It can sometimes sound a lot worse than it really is.....

As long as you have the correct color temp light bulb, you have good light penetration to plants, on a long enough photoperiod and plant the plants properly....all should be fine...

Its better to remove the plants from the pots and remove any rockwool-don't worry about trimming or removing some of the roots along with the rockwool or pot...Then plant them in the substrate if they are substrate planted plants. With your stem plants-they can be planted at any dept and with the rosette type plants...like swords, sags, vals, crypts-make sure the crown is slightly above the substrate so they don't rot.

It can be overwhelming in the beginning....Take a deep breath-smile and have fun-trying not to worry too much and it will all come together in time....


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

Would t8 penetrate deep enough in a 30? I would think it would make them pretty leggy.


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have taken a few pics for you to see..my java fern and 
Rotala rotundifolia are doing ok as you can see.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It would depend on how deep the 30gal is....with 2 t8 15w in 30 gal would be limited even with good penetration, however, there are a lot of plants that would do fine-and a lot that will be leggy too and/or drop the lower leaves.

Crypts, some sags and vals are a great plants that do really well in deeper tanks will limited light penetration as long as the color temp is correct.

Naja grass would be a good stem plant-the hygrophilas would do well too, however, the wisteria might get a bit leggy and drop or yellow on the lower leaves-both the broad and thin leaf would get more woody stems and have limited lower leaves-
In my soil based all open top tanks that are over 2ft deep- all of my hygrophilas do fairly well with low to moderate light with watts in the 1-2wpg range and while watts are not that important- they do help to give a general guideline-Kelvin and light penetration is far more important IME in regards to plant growth and species that work best. 
I think open tops help a lot too since that helps with penetration and not to forget about reflection/reflector that is really important-you gotta get that light into the tank....lol....


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> It would depend on how deep the 30gal is....with 2 t8 15w in 30 gal would be limited even with good penetration, however, there are a lot of plants that would do fine-and a lot that will be leggy too and/or drop the lower leaves.
> 
> Crypts, some sags and vals are a great plants that do really well in deeper tanks will limited light penetration as long as the color temp is correct.
> 
> ...


Wow you are so off the cuff...huge respect for your knowledge, gonna take me two days to input that lol, by the way your tanks are something very special.

The underwater world is something very magical.


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

thanks OFL, i bow down to your wealth of knowledge. :notworthy:


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok so i have taken the hygrophila out of the tank to depot it and pretty much all the leaves have fallen off, i am left with some with a few discoloured leaves and just some stems.

Does this mean its dead now or can i still plant it and hope for new leaf growth?

I think it is wise for me to stick with low light hardy plants in future.

Many thanks Starrlamia for the links, what seachem product do you suggest i use that will benefit all my plants?


----------



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Wow, OFL no need for me to compile info from other sites anymore. Definitely know & completely understand what I did wrong with my plants in the past after reading your posts.

For the Verilux light tube it's rated @ 14,000 hours. 
Running 10 hours on a automatic timer x 365 days = 3650 hours. If I replace the light in the canopy every 12 months, there's about 10,000 hours left before the fluorescent tube needs to be replaced. 

$13 a year for a bulb that can sustain plants is pretty cheap.

I haven't used fertilizers yet, but I have strategically dropped bettapies around the roots/rhizome of the anubias and java ferns. Does that do anything?


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

All i have managed to find out about my lights is that they are T4 15watt flourescent bright day white bulbs which it seems will be the best i can get for my hood.:|

I think i should take the plant out as it looks very pathetic just stalks in the sand with a stray few soft decaying leaves.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

fairy74 said:


> All i have managed to find out about my lights is that they are T4 15watt flourescent bright day white bulbs which it seems will be the best i can get for my hood.:|
> 
> I think i should take the plant out as it looks very pathetic just stalks in the sand with a stray few soft decaying leaves.


Put the plant in a container of dechlorinated water in a sunny window and see if the natural light with bring it back to life.....It sounds like it was grown out of the water and the leaves are in transition and the roots might still be viable, however, if they didn't get the correct light that they can use they will die...kinda like being placed in the dark....


----------



## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

MSG said:


> Wow, OFL no need for me to compile info from other sites anymore. Definitely know & completely understand what I did wrong with my plants in the past after reading your posts.
> 
> For the Verilux light tube it's rated @ 14,000 hours.
> Running 10 hours on a automatic timer x 365 days = 3650 hours. If I replace the light in the canopy every 12 months, there's about 10,000 hours left before the fluorescent tube needs to be replaced.
> ...


flourescent lights lose their kelvin rating over time, the light will still work but the wavelength wont be correct for the plant.

fairy74- seachem flourish comprehensive is a good liquid fertilizer, if you have root plants their root tabs are also good.


----------



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Put the plant in a container of dechlorinated water in a sunny window and see if the natural light with bring it back to life.....It sounds like it was grown out of the water and the leaves are in transition and the roots might still be viable, however, if they didn't get the correct light that they can use they will die...kinda like being placed in the dark....


I shall do that thanks.

Also with the Vallis Vallisneria spiralis 'leopard is it ok to leave that in its pots and just half bury it? i prefer the potted ones as the corys are enjoying uprooting my Rotala Rotundifolia.


----------



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I heard of that as well, the full spectrum lamps lose their K rating over time, but forgot how long to let them run before replacing them. Based on what OFL recommends, every 12 months or so, I'll swap it out with a new one, but I'll keep the "used bulb" around for the basement or something. 

I'll run mine on a automated timer for about 10 hours a day, from 5pm-5am. [Tanks will double as a nightlight] I may let them run for 4000 hours before I replace them with a new bulb. 

I heard it was like replace every 6 months for reptiles. But those are basking UVB or something lamps


----------

