# Is this fin rot or tail biting?



## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I have had my male half-moon betta for about about 1 1/2 months and his tail is really ragged. He lives in a filtered 10 gallon tank that stays about 82-83 degrees. His tank was cycled but I get a new filter so it's not any more. (I have been struggling to keep the ammonia down, but I just added ammo chips today so that should help. Even when his cage was cycled, my betta's tail began to slowly get more and more shredded.. He had sharp plants in his cage which I removed, but he just kept getting more shreds. It looked like someone took some scissors and made little snips all down his tail. 
I thought he had fin rot, I treated him with maracyn 2, but he didn't recover. The night after I finished it, I woke up to find that the number of shreds on his tail had dramatically increased. I was really worried and thought he had extremely severe fin rot. I am currently treating him with triple sulfa, which I have been using for 3 days. While his tail doesn't look worse, it's not noticeably better either. Here are some actual pics of him. Sorry that are kind of blurry.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbccduzHfC1qck5z3o2_500.png[/IM]
[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbccduzHfC1qck5z3o1_500.png[/IM]

Here are some better pics I found on the internet that look almost exactly like him.
[IMG]http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4424/cimg3906.jpg









What does this look like, fin rot or tail biting?


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## Irishdancer (Apr 5, 2011)

I think tailbiting is more likely. Two of my fish are tailbiters, and one looks a lot like those pictures right now. Probably he's stressed because of the ammonia levels, and once you get that taken care of, the tail will heal on it's own.

If it's fin rot, AQ salt is supposed to help with that. Whenever I buy a new fish, they usually come with fin rot, and I've never had to use any stronger medication.

PS. Usually the best way to tell the difference between tailbiting and fin rot is whether the tail looks darker around the tears. If it is darker, then it's probably fin rot.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

His tail looks kind of clear around the edges. It seems to have lost color on ends which I'm guessing is a sign of fin rot. Because of my betta's dark coloration, it is hard to tell if the tips of his tail are actually darker. His tail isn't getting shorter, instead the number of cuts and their deepness seem to be increasing. I looked at him today though, and he seems as though some of the cuts are melding together and healing. Is it normal for fins with fin rot to get cuts instead of getting shorter?


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## laynisample (Sep 10, 2012)

Clear edging to fins is regrowth. It doesn't look like fin rot, it looks like biting. My fish does this as well. Try to keep it from getting infected by keeping the water VERY clean, and try giving him fun things to do. I increased the number of decorations for my tank and now the biting has pretty much stopped. Another reason fish bite is because their fins get too heavy. They'll bite it back to a point, stop, let it regrow, then start the process all over again. Good luck. It's extremely hard to get them to stop, but it's not really hurting him, you just have to make sure you keep up on water changes.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

That is classic tail biting. He looks just like my boy Scuzi did. Keep his water extra clean, do extra WC's to keep ammonia down, and prevent infection. If you have any IAL or dried oak leaves that are pesticide free (like you collect from your back yard). You can add them to his water. They are supposed to help toughen scales and promote healing.

My boys got happier with more plants (silk and live), a place to hide away in, and good food. You say he's in a 10G right now? If there isn't enough in there for him to swim around and feel secure patrolling around in it might spook him


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

He has almost no decorations in the 10 gallon because I was using it as a QT tank. All my betta has is a hide out and 2 silk plants in the back. He is going to move to a 20 gallon that is well planted, but I'm having some major problems with it so that will have to wait. Is there any way to stop him from tail biting so much?


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I also have tail bitter. But his tail looks different though. His looks like ''U'' shape. Not sure but just like Silverfang wrote keep water super clean to prevent infection . Like do extra water changes. Also make sure your filter not too strong i think less water movement is better for him.

Also i think you giving him too much medications . Sometimes it really stressful on fish and do more harm then help. Usually even if it fin rot and if fish eating and active you can treat it with frequent water change.
How much and how often you change the water? Do more water changes with gravel vacuum and see if it helps. If you think it getting worse do aquarium salt treatment . Also a lot of people on the forum recommending to add stress coat it helps to replenish slime coat.
I would have aquarium salt on hands just in case you need it.
Do you know instructions on that?

You also can do this. I found someone put lin with that post check it out. Someone was treating betta with daily or every other day water changes 100% and it amazing healing.
You can try that too. Put him in smaller hospital tank and do 100% frequent water changes with stress coat and if it not helps then you can do salt. 

check out those links
See page 1 page 43#422 page 42 and page 52 it all the same fish.
www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=108151
www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=113927


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I would do more water changes, but my water comes out at 1ppm ammonia. Because his tank isn't well cycled, I don't like doing frequent water changes because it only makes it worse. I put some ammo chips in today, so that should help with the ammonia. I also bought some prime to add to the water so I will be able to do more water changes. I'm going to do a 25% water change tomorrow. 
I wouldn't have gone so drastic into meds, but my water quality is bad so I can't keep the water as clean as I would like. I tried 100% water changes daily, but since I was dumping 1ppm of ammonia into his water after each change, he didn't get better. His fins weren't looking good and I wanted to fix them. I know it's kind of a lot, but I couldn't just sit there and watch him get worse. I'm going to let him rest for a while after I finish this treatment.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

What do you mean water quality is bad?


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

My water comes out pretty hard at about 180ppm with 1ppm ammonia. The ph is also at 7.5 which is a little high. This makes it hard to change the water because I'm just replacing old ammonia with new every time. I'm hoping the ammo chips will fix the ammonia problem though.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

So . . . 180ppm would be 18 if it was the API test . . . yes, that's hard water all right. Surprising your pH isn't higher. I wouldn't worry about the pH though, mine is actually 7.8 and everyone does fine. They'll most likely adjust to the parameters without problems. Only time really hard water is a problem is if you have crowntails. They're super sensitive to water hardness and it tends to curl their fins. But Comet and Celestia should be okay.

The ammo chips will help and I think . . . yeah, I told you about Seachem Prime, right? That will also help. However, if worse comes to worst and the ammonia becomes uncontrollable, you can always consider an R/O unit or mixing bottled water half tap, half bottled. 

Another thing that could really help the ammonia is putting lots of floating plants in. Those suck up ammonia, so plants like duckweed, salvinia, dwarf water lettuce, frogbit . . . all would help.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for the idea on the floating plants. I think I will definatly do that. I gave Comet a 25% water change with the prime so hopefully that and the ammo chips will keep his ammonia down. Do you think I should get a water softener pillow?  Do you think it might lower the ph a little too?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can try a water softener pillow. One thing that I've heard about those is they soften the water using water softening salts. Some people say that the salt that is left behind in the water is very unhealthy for the fish. I don't know, personally. I use water that is softened by a water softener in the garage and we actually had the water tested to see what the sodium level was and it was below normal levels . . . *shrugs* I'm not sure. You can certainly try it and see if it helps. Might try googling to water softener pillows to see what people have said about them.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

I also think if you can keep temperature lower then 80*. The warmer is the temperature the more chance of the infection. 76-80* is the acceptable temperature.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I've read that both raising and lowering the temp can help. I just bought a heater and it's at 80, but what is the best temp for fin rot? I've heard both so I'm not really sure.


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## maciveli23 (May 24, 2012)

*maciveli23*

hmm its fin rot for sure i had a veiltail and it got fin rot a lot so i no what it looks like so heres what you do about treating it make a 25% water change ad one teaspoon of salt and make more water changes every other day:wink: and that is what you do no medicine needed just aquarium salt and fresh water.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks maciveli23. About how long did it take for you to see an improvement in your betta? Also, how long was it before he was fully cured. I'm really having trouble telling if my betta is getting better or not.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i would say 76 would be perfect. Higher temp make bacteria spread faster.
Usually with salt treatment you need to do 100% daily water changes though.It just Leopardfire water has ammonia in it that is why i am not sure what to do. And you guys was trying to figure out it....So if you water is fine you really need to do daily water changes with salt treatment no longer than 10-13 days.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I tried moving him to a small QT tank and doing daily water changes but it made his fins worse because I was moving him from a cycled 10 gallon to an uncycled 3 gallon with 1ppm ammonia already in it from the tap water. I added salt, but because the ammonia was so high, it didn't help. I now have ammo chips and prime to help keep the ammonia down in the 10 gallon since it's not cycled any more. While it's not at complete 0, it is pretty low (about 0.02ppm) which I'm hoping is okay. I will be starting my 2nd dose of triple sulfa tonight to try to finish off any infection. I will also try lowering the temp to 76.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sakura knows better about water. I just hope that ammo chips and prime can help to lower ammonia.
I was wondering if you can have big container where you can make aged water with ammo chips added and prime so ammonia can go down and then change them? Not sure if it stupid idea though. It just better when you do more water changes. I always use aged water only because it more convenient for me. I am driving my husband crazy to keep gallons of water but with time he got used to it.

And about salt. How you know it did't help and get worse? If he has something it will get worse on it own with or without salt. And salt can help only if it right duration and right dosage.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I could get a container and age my water. I'll try to do that but I don't know if my dad will let me. He does't really like the fish. The salt would probably have worked if it wasn't for the 1ppm of ammonia that was constantly in the water. I may age some water and then try the salt again. Do you think that is better than adding a second dose of triple sulfa? I just can't tell if my betta is better or not.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'd have to see a pic of your guy and his fins but if he's not acting sick (lively, eating), then we may not need a second course of triple sulfa or salt. API Stress Coat might be enough to finish the job.


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