# Will this community setup work for a 20gal "high" tank?



## JaydeDancer (Feb 27, 2016)

Hi All,

My idea was to have a naturally (heavily) planted 20 gallon "high" tank with two different "schooling" species (one that likes to live on the bottom, and one that stays primarily in the middle or top) and then to have one other fish that is fine by itself and is colorful. 

I realize that the 1-inch of fish/gallon rule is not accurate, but Kedi from the tropicalfish forums gave me a link to this website, which I have been using to try to figure out what I can put in a 20gallon:

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php 

I already have one betta at work, but I would love to have another one at home.

My thoughts for the two schooling species were 4 pygmy cory cats and 5 celestial pearl danio. However, the danio have long fins, and I don't know if that would aggravate the betta. I think it depends on the fish.

Obviously, I have not yet purchased any fish because I don't even have the tank set up, so the species above can be easily changed if necessary.

I am looking for either a dumbo (EE) _Betta splendens_ or a _Betta imbellis_ ("Peaceful Betta") to put in the tank as the final fish that will be the "star" and will be ok being in a tank with other fish.

Do any of you have any experience with the _Betta imbellis_ species? I just recently found out about that species and I don't know how hard it is to find. 

Is adding the betta last a good idea or should he be added first?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

A shoaling species, especially the Nano/Micro kind, need a minimum of six but 10+ is much better. 

Pygmy Cory are not bottom dwellers; they are mid-level. Habrosus Cory are bottom dwellers. I have CPD with no problems in two of my tanks with Betta. CPD do not have long fins? They are also quite tiny.

If a Betta is not going to be good with tank mates it won't matter the length of the other species' fins. I used to keep Fancy Male Guppies with my Betta with no issues.

BTW, even though people use the terms interchangeably, shoaling and schooling aren't the same. Schooling fish 100% synchronize swim and are mostly seen in saltwater species. Shoaling join up occasionally but do not synchronize swim. Another tidbit from the mind that needs a good Spring cleaning!


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## JaydeDancer (Feb 27, 2016)

Thank you! I knew that there was a difference between shoaling and schooling, but I had thought that one was applied to top tank dwellers and the other to bottom feeders. Now I know it is more than that!

Also, I may be getting my species mixed up here. The aquarium store employee told me that this fellow might be a danio. But he couldn't tell me what species.

Is this a danio? 










I had wrote down that it might be a longfin pearl danio, but when I was trying to find info on them, Google kept trying to suggest celestial pearl danio, so I figured they must be the same. 

I just googled celestial pearl danio, and nope. Definitely not the same fish. ^ ^;

The fellow up above is what I was thinking of putting in the community tank.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

That's a Zebra Danio; maybe called Long-Finned Zebra Danio?. Not sure how they would do in a "High" tank. I think Aqua Aurora has them; maybe she'll come on and help.

A lot of times what different species need depends more on the tank's footprint that number of gallons.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Those are long finned zebra danio NOT celestrial pearl danio.. very differnt fish.
I've never kept zebra danio because they are too active/darty/nippy for my liking. But I've advised others who do have them to get larger tanks/return them before because they were improperly housing that species.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/danio-rerio/


> An active species so even a small group needs an aquarium with *minimum *base dimensions of 90 ∗ 30 cm.


that translates to 35"x12" long and wide tank. These are very active fish, the few extra inches of swim room really make a difference. A 40g breeder or larger tank is best for them as they are extremely active! A 20g high or 29g doesn't give them the room they need. Even the long fin variety are still extreme active and fast, so I don't believe you should downsize tank dimensions just because of longer fins.

As Russel mentioned larger groups are better, bare minimum 6 but 8-10 is good. Keeping too few increases the likely hood of aggression, as the dominant fish will harass the weakest a lot, with too few fish to spread the aggression on this can lead to a stressed and eventually dead fish. Also in smaller groups they are more likely to go after other fish since they aren't as preoccupied dealing with their own kind. But being in a larger group doesn't make them completely ignore other species. Don't keep them with anything long finned or slow moving like angelfish, gourami, or bettas.. fins will be destroyed.

Celestial pearl danio (aka cpd) and also know as Galaxy rasbora, would be a better fit for that size tank as they are smaller and not as active as the zebra danio. Also from what I've read true cpd are much more timid than the darty and nippy zebra, thus safer with a betta (if anything they may have trouble getting food due to a dominant betta in the tank).

Honestly the only danio I'd call peaceful are cpd and danio tinwini, but both are generally not found in lfs.. though some places get them (lilnaugrim's lfs has had tinwini and she's offered to ship them for cost of fish+ shipping). Most other danio species are extremely active, darty, and nippy.


Photo identification of the various danio:
Celestial pearl danio aka cpd aka galaxy rasboras (peaceful)










Danio tinwini aka gold ring danio (peaceful)










Zebra danio and long fin zebra danio (darty/nippy)










Leopard danio (darty/nippy) do not confuse with tinwini










Pearl danio (darty/nippy) do not confuse with celestial pearl danio










giant danio (don't even.. too big)










glow light danio (don't know much on this one)


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I have CPD in two of my Betta tanks and they are really cute but somewhat timid. They do best where they have heavy planting when they need to retreat. Mine are out 90% of the time but I have 10+ in each tank. Sometimes the males get feisty with each other and put on quite a show!


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## JaydeDancer (Feb 27, 2016)

Wow! Thank you! That was so helpful! You have both definitely given me something to think about.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

I have Long Fin Zebra Danios in a 6 foot tank with assorted Tetras they are insane little fish never still, I would not put them in with a Betta.

Kuhli Loaches are cool as bottom dwellers, I have about 18 in a 20 gallon with my betta, Some people will tell you that they are shy and nocturnal and that you never see them, Not true. Kept in 6 or more with lots of plants and bits of wood to hide under if needed they are quite active once they settle in. 

Quite a common sight in my tank.




















One of my fav photos
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...uary-2016-photo-month-contest-results-664850/


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

NickAu: I don't think people really understand how very important it is to maintain good-sized shoals. It makes a world of difference in health and activity. Six is the *minimum* number but most knowledgeable aquarists will have 10+. The only shoals I have of fewer than 10 are the Habrosus Cory in my 5.5 gallon tanks.

All prey animals find strength in numbers. You don't see wild horses running around alone in wolf and cougar country.


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## JaydeDancer (Feb 27, 2016)

NickAu said:


> Kuhli Loaches are cool as bottom dwellers, I have about 18 in a 20 gallon with my betta


Aren't loaches kind of big though? It seems like having 18 to 20 of them would be overstocking the tank.

In your pictures I see a loach and a bunch of shrimp. Did you mean you have 18-20 shrimp in a 20 gallon?


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

I have about 18 Kuhli loaches and over 100 shrimp, Kuhlis only grow to about 4 inches.



> It seems like having 18 to 20 of them would be overstocking the tank.


They have a very low bio load, 1 Mystery snail would be a bigger bio load than 18 Kuhlis.


PS Kuhlis need a mature tank at least 3 or 4 months old. They also like soft water.


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## JaydeDancer (Feb 27, 2016)

NickAu said:


> I have about 18 Kuhli loaches and over 100 shrimp, Kuhlis only grow to about 4 inches.
> 
> They have a very low bio load, 1 Mystery snail would be a bigger bio load than 18 Kuhlis.
> 
> ...


Wow! That is a lot of critters!

I have very hard water here in Utah, so Kuhli's probably wouldn't be too happy here.


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