# help on my sorority



## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

i need some serious help with my sorority. i dont know what to do . so heres the deal, about a month or so ago i set up a sorority of 7 fish in a 10 gallon tank. they all were doing good for a little while and then they started nipping at eachother . i had to take out my little girl Alli and give her to my boyfriend to take care of for a little while. and then after i took her out, its like all of them turned on one fish and killed her  i was at work all day and i came home to find a little dead khloe and i was devestated and so upset . her fins were completely gone and she was just terrible looking...so now i have 5 girls floating in their cups in the tank to keep them warm, but away from eachother so they cant hurt eachother. the dilemma i have is idk what im going to do to take care of them. i dont want to have to pick between 6 fish to keep (the 5 floating and the 1 my boyfriend is taking care of temporarily) so im not sure what i can do. i was thinking divider but im not sure..i was wondering if you guys have some input on what i should do with these guys. btw, i figured out what the problem was, i didnt get the 7 fish in my sorority from the same breeder which was my downfall . so any advice is welcomed because im baffled and i dont know what to do about my fishies


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I would suggest trying to get a bigger tank. I have my hands full with 4 sibling girls in a 20 gallon. Also, try adding a heck load of plants. When adding a new fish, always always rearrange everything so you are not putting a new fish in their territory. My tank is completely stuffed, and I still have Rose getting her tail nipped!

forgive the bad quality picture.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I think the amount of girls you have in that tank is ok if it is densely covered/planted. Can you show us photos? Is the tank filtered? What I do if one girl gets nippy is I put her in "time out" - aka - a clear cup, tupperware container, or small glass tank and float her in the sorority for days, or weeks until the aggression lets up, replacing the water twice a day by dumping it into the tank and refilling. 

You can try rearranging decor too. If I were you I'd thoroughly clean the tank, rearrange, and add density in plants and/or decor. Keep the girls where they can all see one another and slightly overfeed them for about 5 days before releasing them together again, or longer if you want to. Maybe wait until the other girl is better, add her floating as well, feed her a lot as well...If there's anything that will work, that will. Otherwise you might need to separate them. 

The fish not being from the same breeder probably isn't the issue, although many say it does make things easier. Warm/clean water with tons of hiding spots and plants might fix things up, as well as a cool down for them. My girls are from several breeders. I have 12 girls in a 20 gallon, 2 of which are giants, and I'll be adding two more. Many would say this is overstocked because its over the 1 inch per gallon rule, but my tank is filtered well and densely planted with live plants which help to keep water clean and provide cover for them.

Another tip given to me that works great: slightly overfed girls are happy girls. Try adding variety to their diet or give everyone an extra pellet or two.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

here is my 20GI have 10 girls in a 20 gallon. I started out with 5 in a 10 gallon. One giant girl I found dead  Two were banned from the tank for agression. Then I upgraded to a 20G. All was well for a while but then I found one girl was pretty beat up (she later died from injuries) and the other one - another giant was missing scales. 

Soroities are hit or miss. Some say getting them all from the same breeder is best but I dont think it makes any difference. Mine are ALL from walmart, different ages, different sizes. It all comes down to the individual bettas personality. One is a giant, most are normal sized and one was still a fry when I added her. 

I think for a 10G, the max is either 5 or 6. Like Greentea said, lots of plants/stuff in the tank is best. It breaks up the line of sight and is supposed to curb agression. Supposedly you want it so full of plants that you can hardly see the fish. My girls all swim in a 1 foot area, literally on top of each other. I don't get it.

If they can't be together, you can always divide the tank up and keep them like that.

Here is my 20G, full of random stuff. I did have the end sectioned off, incase one was misbehaving but the divider wasnt big enough


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah not too many follow the inch per gallon rule - mainly because no one would want to (or should) stuff a 5 inch goldie in a 5 gallon tank :lol: 
I'm not sure but since I own so many bettas, amd never overfeed I can opinionate that bettas do not have a bad bioload - they really are a clean fish


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

thank you guys! tomorrow on my break im going to get some new plants at petsmart and stuff. based on the pictures of you guys's tanks, mine isnt planted enough, even though i thought i planted it pretty heavily im gonna try putting in some more decor though. btw tikibirds, your tank is really beautiful. im gonna take a look at my tank and see what i want to add in there and do the best i can  thanks for all the input, i will definatly add some more plants in there. do you think i can keep an even number in there? because atm i have 5 girl bettas in my possesion, and my boyfriend is taking care of my injured one. i want to add her back in when she is all better, so do you think it will be okay to have 6 in there? as long as i have the tank heavily planted and what not of course


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Get a breeder;s net and float her in there for a few days, after reintroducing ALL females together as a group, after rearranging all decor and adding decor. This will help  Otherwise you put her into their territory. But yes technically you could, just keep in mind some girls are just not sorority girlies


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

okay, thank you very much for all your help  im going to go ahead and get my little girl back from my boyfriend. i miss her so so much and she is my pride and joy. she is like the little teeny girl who i love so dearly  she never fails to put a smile on my face <3


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have one like that hehe :3 she is Rose. the little sister of the other three girlies. She has that... little sister act about her LOL


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

lol, exactly! shes the tiniest one of them all, and she is just so cute and adorable and never fails to make me smile. shes a cute little cellophane with red fins and a little red mouth  shes so cute and make me so happy. i miss her


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

hehehe My Rose has red fins ^.^ once she was a bone white body with red fins.. now just a brown with iridescent purple/red, and her red fins.


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

awww  she sounds like a cutie!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah 6 will be fine, and since you're adding plants and rearranging, it won't be "their" territory anymore as Sena said, they'll be establishing new territories- they do this any time they are re introduced after being separated, had their tank rearranged, or have new fish added. 

Remember to clean the tank well, go for density, feed them a lot for a meal or two before you let them out, and I bet things will be good. He's a photo of my tank for reference as well 

A word of advice when picking up plants: often times plants sold at chain stores are not aquatic at all but are labeled as such. For live plants some good things to look for are hornwort, camboba, amazon swords, java moss, duckweed..just to name a few.




























Video
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/greentea191/Fishy guys gal/?action=view&current=MVI_3330.mp4

Good luck, feel free to PM me with any questions or comments and keep us updated!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah my tank is even more stuffed than that and I still see fin nipping - so don't see surprised to see an occassional chase or nipping - it'll still happen lol. As long as there is no ganging up, or constant pestering.


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

Currently I have 5 females in my 20 gal sorority. I purchased them from Pets unlimited and all from the same breeder and batch. ( Females are scarce here) So I grabbed as many passive ones as I could. Which left one much larger aggressive one. Unfortunately for me I give in to little fishies far too easily and when I saw her all alone on my next visit, I purchased her and placed her in a divided 10 gallon. Luckily for me though, all 5 in my 20 gallon are doing great. I plan on adding more the next time they come in though. I seriously just sit and watch the behavior in the tank before even thinking about purchasing one. But it is hit or miss, I am just thankful mine are pretty passive.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

You didnt try the aggressive one in your sorority first? They tend to mellow out...best to trust your gut though.


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

I watched her nipping the others in the tank at the pets store. One was dead when I arrived. I am not risking it. But she does deserve a home and I have space so... no harm to me.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Well did the store have clean water good food and lots of cover? I'm just saying you have room and she might do well under the correct circumstances


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

Hmmm good point. Well she is twice the size. Should I wait for the smaller ones to become used to their home first? I'm the kind of person who plays it safe but if she can mingle with the others peacefully I think she would be much happier.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I have giants in my sorority and they don't bother the girl who's about an inch long at all. 

If you'd like to try, and assuming your tank has adequate cover, it doesn't matter if they're "used to" their home as bettas tend to explore and stake out a territory quickly. If they've been together more than two days or so they probably know who's alpha, where they are going to rest, etc.

Just overfeed for a day or two, float everyone so they can see each other, and then release and observe if you want to be conservative! You could also just rearrange some decor and after acclimating add the bigger girl and observe. There might be a few nipped fins, but if there are no signs of extreme aggression and they are calm within a few hours it should work out. They might just re-establish territories and move on with life! IMO size is not important, unless say maybe your whole tank was giant females and there was ONE tiny gal...


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

hmmm a few hours should be ok? I don't want to go to bed and wake up in the morning with a dead fishy..or not be able to sleep at all worrying.xD


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Well like for me, I was just familiar enough with betta physical signs to know if someone was going to be a jerk or not...so after a few hours I felt comfortable. There might not be any issues at all. I say go ahead, and if you're uncomfortable, jar whoever's aggressive up for the night in a "time out" which I explained above


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

hmmm i just set it up and transferred more plants from vacant aquariums...lets hope it works. Shes nipping a bit and chasing but not overly so...shes found herself a little zone of " I'll kill you if you set fin in my turf" But she won't chase them when they leave that zone...is this ok? I've only ever owned males...never females. So this i new.


Anyways the Tank is heavily planted, 20gal with 6 females now.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah, the "alpha" often won't bother anyone, they just like their own space and if any of the subordinates get out of hand they tend to swim in between and put a stop to it. Just keep an eye on them for a little while.

Extreme aggression would include: Jaw locking, constant chasing or nipping of one or more individuals, flaring constantly with biting, biting at the eyes..


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

ok im going to go stare at them now \o.o7


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Good! Let me know how it goes, I'll be on my computer for hours since I was on the road and had a red bull.


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

ok so only slight nipping still. She roams around and tries to nip others but nothing around the eyes. I've noticed the old alpha doing the same. I made sure I completely rearranged the plants so no territory was established when I introduced her. So far so good. Lets just hope that it continues to calm down like it has. If none die by tomorrow is it safe to assume that they are relatively getting along.


PS: Sorry for hijacking the thread. xD


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

im afraid to do live plants. im afraid it will be dirty and stuff. i also have sand and so i do the gravel vacuum once a week when i change half of their water, cant i still do that if i have live plants? idk, i just dont know too much about live plants and i dont know how to do it correctly. can someone help me? i also have sand so will the live plants in sand be a problem?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Plants actually help keep the water clean and are not messy themselves unless roots or leaves die... Some plants like camboba can "shed" because they have needles and get messy. I use amazon swords because they have big leaves for girls to sleep in and dont shed. If/when their leaves die they are easy to remove and the roots that die are easily sucked up when you do your gravel vacuum. I have no experiences with sand, if the sand is deep enough they should stay, or if the plant is like they will stay.

You can also look into duckweed, water lettuce, and other floating plants, as they don't leave messes, get light easily, and still keep water clean and won't disturb your gravel. Just make sure you leave surface room for them to get air!


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

My bettas love floating plants. It inst too difficult to vacuum around the plants, just do it lightly. Also if using sand you'll need to stir it around once in a while to make sure nothing builds up or you could have some issues. I use trumpet snails. If you take plants like anubia, java fern, java moss and so on, they should be fine in sand. Some people actually put a nutrient rich substrate beneath the sand or mix them together. So they can have both sand and nutrient dependent plants.


my sorority seems to be getting along. maybe I can go to bed soon.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I got live plants  Java fern, some tall grass like plant, and floating plants. I have the plants spaced out enough I can get around them, and if anything I think sand is better than gravel for plants... But I may be wrong! Get the hardy plants. And if you do not have UV lighting, I suggest just getting one... It really makes the tank look better, your females color up more, and the plants are a lot healthier and grow very nicely. Even then there are plants hardy enough that do not need very much lighting


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

very true. UV helps a lot too. Some also dose excel to assist nutrient lacking substrate. I also prefer sand over gravel ( the plastic coated kind and such) The plants do a bit better.



Update on my sorority: They are all getting along! Thanks for the advice on how to re introduce them! <3


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

You're welcome  Glad we could help. I have gravel in my tanks but its natural and the stones are larger so the roots stay down well.


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## PixelatedPaint (Nov 19, 2011)

Natural gravel is great too! I prefer sand and some peat or nutrient rich substrate underneath it. Once the sand is settle most plants stay down well, unless you have large bottom feeders like plecos...don't bother with fine grain sand...they will uproot everything.


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

i will think about the live plants, thanks guys. btw where do i get some of these plants? i went looking at petsmart yesterday and they didnt have much.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You can always order them - though some online people will not send them in cold weather, depending where you are that is and how long it takes to get to you. I bought my Java Fern online... I want to get in some moss balls next. 

Ask Petsmart if they are willing to order in specific plants for you. And make sure you see the plants, see the fish, etc, in that tank for how healthy they are! 
I was upset when the store gave me a floating plant that had black hair algae which endangered my female bettas (got caught by their gills!!) and weighed the poor plant down - and looked ugly.


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

okay, i might talk to them. thanks!


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## trumpet4life375 (Jun 8, 2011)

hey guys here is a pic of the new tank. i love the new rock in there


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

oh wow! Very nice! I think they'll like that!


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## Smokey65662 (Sep 11, 2011)

Here is Alli, the girl I took home to try and get her all healed up. She is beat up pretty badly :/ and still a tiny bet stressed but she is doing lots better than when I got her. I can see white fin regrowth on all sides that are torn. Shes eating relatively well, just got to make sure the pieces are small enough for her. I keep the water at 82 degrees in this tank using a 100w heater (was on sale so I got it instead of the 50w since its right in front of a window w/ a fan in it). Im using stress coat and 1 TBS aq salt every water change (5 gal every week). Shes getting better  Just need to get her a little bigger and stronger before we put her back in the sorority. Niki wanted to be in the pictures pretty bad and wasn't going to move till she was included lol. Niki doesn't mind the other girls


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## Smokey65662 (Sep 11, 2011)

O jeez sorry about the pictures. For some reason they got uploaded in the default resolution  Ill try not to do that again.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh wow - poor girl! But, at least she is getting better!


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