# Vincent {Giant Blacklace Dragonscale OHM} X Pearl {Giant Opaque White HMPK}



## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Well, Vincent the Glorious is in the spawn tank! He's been happily getting conditioning rations for about 10 days now. 
I have been slowly raising the temp and it's now at a balmy, spawn friendly 82 degrees Fahrenheit, this seems to have resulted in an explosion of copepods! Yay, free fry food.
I've also been lowering the water level a bit at a time. I believe Miss Pearl might get introduced via glass chimney tomorrow afternoon!

Here are a few pics of Vincent Himself in his budoir. 
View attachment 747594


View attachment 747602


View attachment 747610


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

This is the lovely bride , Pearl. 
Who has also been on conditioning rations, supplemented with a well timed snail hatching in the tank she is in. Pearl loves baby escargot. Lol
View attachment 747618


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Just in case Pearl doesn't work out I have a pretty blacklace copper HM with no red conditioning. 
India is big, but no giant, so hopefully Pearl will get the job done.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Beautiful pair! What is your goal for this spawn? They look absolutely gorgeous. They will make stunning fry!


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

My goal is stunning fry! Heh heh. Seriously. A line of dragonscale giants as gorgeous as the parents will do nicely.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Hope the introduction goes well  I'm excited to see what sort of colors opaque white x black lace brings


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Color is one thing I can't really predict here. We'll see. Should be interesting.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Witchipoo said:


> My goal is stunning fry! Heh heh. Seriously. A line of dragonscale giants as gorgeous as the parents will do nicely.


I can't wait to see the outcome! :-D


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Well, introductions will have to be put off for a few days. I'm dealing with some sort of virus in my vaccinated, 13 week old Havanese pups. We lost one yesterday, damnit, the other three are getting treated every hour for the next day or two till all symptoms are gone. 
Ugh, this sucks! Vet doesn't know what it is. No lab tests back yet. 
My baby boy. :* {


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm so sorry. Take your time. I hope they get well soon!


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Oh no! Im so sorry :-( Hope they get well soon


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## Hopefish (Feb 9, 2016)

Where are you, Witchpoo? I know hantavirus is now a problem in some areas.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm in northern Colorado. I'll check it out. Thanks.
CJ is still not 100% but he's improving. It seems to run it's course in 3 days. Now puppy 3, Quan is vomiting. 
Ugh!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

just googled Havanese, had a little dog looks like that, his mother is a peking (if that a right strain name) she was stunted but we love her so much, he got accident when she was a baby dog, a guest mistakenly step on him, of a couple other normal cubs , we had her with us,while other is given away, we call her Cat, lol i can still remember vividly how he was doing round turns when he's happy /asking for food, even its been almost 10 years ago


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

They squeeze our hearts liamthen. I can picture your little pekingese begging and wiggling. 
I'm so exhausted right now i hope I'm making sense.


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## Engel (Jan 27, 2016)

That boy is gorgeous. 
I hope your pups make it through


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks Engel.
Vincent is pretty glorious.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Are the pups all better? have you re-prepped for a spawn?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Pups are good now. Glad that's over. On to fish!
Microworms are starting to crawl up the sides of the tub, brine shrimp eggs and hatch kit are here. 
Copepods and infusoria both looking good. 
I just lowered the water level for the last time, I plan on putting her in the chimney tomorrow mid day. We're getting hit with a spring storm, barometer pressure is crazy high. Hopefully it will pass by then. If not I hope it doesn't delay things. 
The only camera I have is on my phone but I'll do the best I can. I plan on finding a decent digital camera this weekend. 
Wish me luck! I'll keep you posted.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Fingers crossed  x


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Can't wait to see what come of pearl. I think the fry are going to look amazing! Breeding during the storm is great!


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

*Pearl*

Ah geez!Where did she put me this time?
View attachment 757361


Wait! What's that?
View attachment 757369


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

*Vincent*

Now what are you putting in my tank? This is my house!
View attachment 757377


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I can't wait to see the outcome!!! They're going to look gorgeous!


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

He best get a nest built. He's spending lots of time under the cup, but no nest yet. He's very deliberate, so it may take a bit of patience on my part.


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

patience. It may take a while for first time breeders to build nest and get in the mood.

The storm will help.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I hope so. It's certainly the right time of year. 
Thanks for the encouragement, it helps to have some experience available.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

LOL Vincent looks really awestruck.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I know right? He looked really surprised for a while. That's his "is that a camera? It better not be a camera!" look.
She's staying cool as a cucumber.


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

Witchipoo said:


> Now what are you putting in my tank? This is my house!
> View attachment 757377


Haha, actually he could decide that that is his house and try to defend it instead of courting that white strange thing. Just keep an eye on him.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

*Day 3 courting*

Day 1. Pearl went in the chimney She will be an easy breeder I think. She showed submissive and flirty behavior within a few minutes of realizing there was a male in the tank. She is very aware of him. 
Vincent did not start a nest so I left her in the chimney all afternoon and evening. 

Day 2. April fools day. Nest started under the cup! I put Pearl back in the chimney, went to let the dogs out and when I came back Pearl had jumped out of the chimney and was calmly looking at the nest, which he chased her away from. 
We spent the next 2 hours watching him alternate between his nest and chasing her around and flaring. She spent her time following him till he rushed her. She responds by swimming to the bottom at the side and posturing with her head lowered and staying very still. 
No damage to either yet, she is very fast and not aggressive toward him at all. She looks like she's smitten, actually. It would be interesting to see how she would react to a male smaller than she is. Could this be a form of natural selection? He IS pretty impressive, by any standard. 

Day 3. In the chimney she goes. He went over, looked at her and went directly to the nest, he had been patrolling lazily. Left her in the chimney for half an hour or so and then pulled it. 
They are playing the same chase game, it's less intense today and she's spending more time under the nest and he is letting her.
Will update later. This looks good.


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

This is really good. I remember reading a breed tut from a member on this forum that would not let them breed until the female would jump out of the chimney herself.

Personally I've never had that happen to me. But it would be pretty cool.

Crossing my fingers for you! I need a male from that line!!!! lol


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Day 4: Left them together yesterday. Lots of flirting from her. She tries to help build the nest, follows him around like a puppy and tries to touch him every chance she gets. She literally was getting next to him and instigating full body contact. She never bites at him. When he chases her she turns and faces him or leads him toward the nest. 
Vincent, on the other hand, works on the nest and has run himelf rather raggedn chasing her. Other than nest building there has been no change in his behavior. 
I took her out this morning after observing for 45 minutes or so and fed both of them. Which I've been doing all along. 
I'm thinking I'll do a water change in the spawn tank today and give them a 24 hour break.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Aw Vincent is playing hard to get lol


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Yeah he is, damn his eyes. 
I do have a backup plan, just in case. It's just going to take longer to get to my goal, but it will work, if all the fishie parties start cooperating. :/


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Try betta Viagra aka Indian Almond Leaf/ Indian Almond Leaf extract if you haven't done so already.. Makes it so much easier to be honest.


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

Gah, Vincent is such a Dreamboat! Pearl is a lucky lady 

Can't wait to see how the spawn looks, sounds like the courtship is going rather well so far.


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## BettaStarter24 (Mar 24, 2014)

Curious to see how many of the fry end up PK and Giant. Might be interested in a male like dad. I'll have to see when that time comes though.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

alecmerkel said:


> Try betta Viagra aka Indian Almond Leaf/ Indian Almond Leaf extract if you haven't done so already.. Makes it so much easier to be honest.


Gah! I knew something was missing! My IAL didn't ever get here. Crud.
Will Rooibos tea and banana leaves do the same thing? I have both of those. 
Crap, it's gonna take another week for them to get here.


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Hmm I would have to look that up. I honestly have no clue. I know they are used to help the quality for betta. But I wouldn't know how it effects breeding since I've only ever used IAL.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

banana leaves will do same , i currently use some for breeding my EE and CT, it does just the same,fry hatched and free swimming and they are healthy


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I'll put more in! I have plenty of banana leaves. Thanx liamthen


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

np, lets hope they spawn soon, i need to witness this , never see a giant HM spawn and want to observe the growth rate ,best of luck!!


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Ok, I'm going to try again today and tomorrow. I just can't decide on something. 
I have Vincent in my bedroom, in the 20 long, on a low stand, under a smallish southern facing window. The water is about 8" deep. Half the tank gets some indirect sun and the other is shaded all day. The tank is like a living ecosystem now and I really want the fry to hatch in it. But, is letting Vincent establish the whole tank as his territory a good idea? Should I take him out for a few days? Correct me if I'm wrong,but wouldn't awild male establish a suitable territory and wait for a female to happen within luring distance? 
I think I'll cover the sides of the tank, put her in the chimney and see what happens this time.


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

I would leave him in the tank.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Keep your fingers crossed for me. She's back in the chimney. The sides are covered and the filter is off. If she doesn't jump out on her own again pretty soon I will pull the chimney since she immediately started flirting with him when she spotted him. 
Right now I'm resisting the urge toto stare at them. It's so hard!!!! Lol


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i'll cross both hand's fingers for you, tried my legs but the thumbs can't cooperate well lol.

i think its okay to peek and observe how they courting ,so you can know exactly when to put the female out. its where the male is take caring the eggs which we should peek less often, afraid of the male freak out and mistaken our face as potential predator and then decide to eat eggs or fry he's nursing

hope Vincent will do the courting ritual, if you see him do it, just let the female out.
btw here are my HMEE's spawn bucket pic i use banana leaves with, just to give you calm of mind they really work good, i put a knot on the leaves so it sink good and make the male can't completely build nest under it , i can't see the eggs if he do it :-D because i can only see from top view .

NB : don't forget to prepare food for incoming fry hahaha, hope you get tons of them


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Well, she has been loose witj him for close to 24 hours. There's a good sized nest under the cup again. But, he's still chasing her off and getting tired again. 
She looks bewildered again and is still doing all she can to entice, but. I don't know. Could it be he doesn't like her?
Should I try a different girl? I don't have another giant. But I have this fully mature, eggy, well bred, regular sized HM girl that has been getting conditioned just in case.
View attachment 763577


View attachment 763585


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

... Would you use Luna?


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

^ then Witchi would have to go back to step one on conditioning  interested to see what she'd say though

@Witchipoo: I have zero advice about Pearl vs India. I'm just here to cheer you on ^^;

Dear Pearl: don't lose heart, darling, it's not because you're not pretty enough. You're GORGEOUS!


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

I don't think it's the guy that doesn't like her.

It that darn FM giant lol. I was unable to get mine to breed either and they were sisters.

After putting a new fem, the new pair breed instantly. I would def remove your FM giant and attempt to breed your other girl. If they don't fall in "love" rather quickly I would just start over again, give the male time to rest.

Remember that if they do breed he will have a very tiresome few days after(looking after the eggs). It's best not to risk it. I lost my male in my latest spawning


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm sorry about your boy! 
I won't let him go past this evening and I'll take her out. I'm beginning to think the giant girls might be too intimidating for all but the most dominant males.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Olivia27 said:


> ^ then Witchi would have to go back to step one on conditioning  interested to see what she'd say though
> 
> @Witchipoo: I have zero advice about Pearl vs India. I'm just here to cheer you on ^^;
> 
> Dear Pearl: don't lose heart, darling, it's not because you're not pretty enough. You're GORGEOUS!


It's beginning to look like I'm going to have to recondition him again anyway.
As for Luna, I don'tknow. I would have to see her. Pearl came from the same breeder as Vincent, the copper HM came from phusit and I have a young black dragon PK from Pearl'/Vincent breeder. Plenty to choose from.. If he breeds the copper I'll try again with Pearl later or find a giant black female for him.. ; }


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Ah  hope Plan B works better then x


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i would guess this is 1st time for male, there's male that won't wrap because he's not satisfied himself to his nest, even if the female so ready, by my previous spawn of HMs, i just notice, this long finned type are all big nest builder, he's HM and a Giant and 1st timer, so perhaps wait a bit more


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I took her out last night. Setting up a temporary tank next to his so they can continue to look at each other. 
He is still working on the nest. So I think you might be right liamthen. He's very deliberate by nature anyway and just 6 months old or so. 
Thank you again. I need to relax, so they can. Lol


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

yes, be relax abit lol, i can tell you how many time i was over excited to a particular spawn, all the expectation, somehow, its always the hardest one to make lol. On the other case when i just don't expect too much of a spawn, but just think it will yield viable and acceptable result, most of the spawn gone smoothly, it's weird but it just happen every time.There must be something wicky about this hahaha
There's an agreed belief too in my local breeder community most good fish is hard to spawn, and the fry won't be as much, so it's quite a challenging thing to do. thats why the satisfaction level is extremely high when you are able to do it , so be easy and take it as you are breeding a normal pair, those that you done for years, it might yield different and happy result , we tried anything , why don't try the easiest thing too hehehe


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## StephLove (Apr 11, 2016)

Following! These fish are gorgeous, no doubt that the babies will be too. Hopefully they cooperate soon!


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

These giants seem to mature a bit slower than the littles. 
Vincent is approaching 7 months and has just started to fill out and get muscle. Pearl is just 5 months and follows him around like a little girl with her first crush, but still isn't egg heavy!
I think I will put India, the copper girl with him tomorrow, see what happens.


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

My giant doesn't seem to be very eggy either. My attempt to fatten her up are futile as she only eats what she wants and leaves massive left overs.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I guess we're just going to have to be patient, eh?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Yes ,patient and be positive!!! You'll be successful on this spawn, no worry .


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Well damn. 
I put India the little copper, in the chimney for an hour a day fir three days, she got eggy and fat, she was flirting so I turned her loose. 
Checked on them, some chasing, big bubble nest, swimming under it together. Good signs. I had to leave for a couple of hours, came back and she was dead! No obvious signs of trauma, just belly up. 
Crap!
I'll continue to fatten the giant girl up and try again with her I guess.


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## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

Witchipoo said:


> Well damn.
> I put India the little copper, in the chimney for an hour a day fir three days, she got eggy and fat, she was flirting so I turned her loose.
> Checked on them, some chasing, big bubble nest, swimming under it together. Good signs. I had to leave for a couple of hours, came back and she was dead! No obvious signs of trauma, just belly up.
> Crap!
> I'll continue to fatten the giant girl up and try again with her I guess.


Ugh! I'm sorry  That really sucks! SIP India.

A shame Vincent is being so difficult to breed as well.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Oh Witchi I'm so sorry :'( SIP India


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

IF I manage to get him to spawn, am I bringing about a whole new generation of difficult breeders? 
Gah!!!!

Thanx for sticking with me guys, this is so frustrating. 
Back to conditioning.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Sorry for your little india witchi, you have our support!! No worry, i believe as long as Vincent is healthy he will spawn, by the way how big is his nest?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

When I checked them before I left his nest filled about half the underside of the styrofoam cup.
It's completely gone now. 
That was the biggest nest he has achieved so far. 
I might just give him a month or two and see what happens with this pair of pk I have. 
Going to go make a new thread for them, think about it for a bit.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm so sorry  I wish you the best!


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## OUOhYeah2016 (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm sorry Witch! I hope you have better luck in the future.


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## Veolfa (Mar 24, 2016)

How frustrating. Sorry about your girl.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

idk how to say, there's many time i decided to put a pair down not by plan , but just by guts and mood, somehow i know its time to put a pair down and spawn them, maybe you can try it witchi, if you decided to import HMPK female, let me know


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks so much guys. All your support means so much.
I moved Vincent back in his 15, his tail and dorsal are shredded from all this. 
I can't seem to get the giant girl fat! 
I'm hoping mosquito season will help. 
Anyway. More when something happens.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

two type of giant , one has big broad body, these kind you can make them look fat, another has long slender body, its hard to make them fat, best bet is to know the female age, if she's mature enough, its possible to spawn her without waiting her to look fat, Mr.Indjo tell me that female can even be breed again 2 weeks after spawned , so imo your problem here is to get them in mood to spawn


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

That's good to know! Pearl is long and lean. 
I don't think it's my girls. It's Vincent. His bubble nests, when he builds them, are pretty sad!


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Try getting another male to build a big best I. The 20. Then put Vincent in, see what he does.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Good Idea! This little dalmation builds huge nests. 
I might try that.
I have to wait a bit now any way. I think I'll be getting a HM giant girl soon!


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

liamthen said:


> two type of giant , one has big broad body, these kind you can make them look fat, another has long slender body, its hard to make them fat, best bet is to know the female age, if she's mature enough, its possible to spawn her without waiting her to look fat, Mr.Indjo tell me that female can even be breed again 2 weeks after spawned , so imo your problem here is to get them in mood to spawn


From my observations, female looking fat or not is not connected with the amount of eggs and the female can be bred in a meter of days if she's not too shredded from previous rendez-vous.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

look what have Vincent done to me Witchi, i spent no time snatching this baby giant male 2,5 months old 4cm BO,from my fellow breeder friend, cost me quite a lot , oh well, i need this male


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Oh! He's cool looking liamthen!
Everyone has the dragon fever. 
I have the perfect girl for him! 
View attachment 785641


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

I got a good picture of Luna today, Witchi.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Time to close this one down i think. 
I can not get Vincent to spawn no matter what I try.
I'm going looking for a giant PK male. I'll probably try Vincent again, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

be spirited always witchi its the process and hardship that gives unexplainable satisfaction when we finally able to do it


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

liamthen said:


> be spirited always witchi its the process and hardship that gives unexplainable satisfaction when we finally able to do it


Thank you friend. I won't give up. 
How is your dragon?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

looking good witchi i have spawned siblings for f2 already, will update newest photo of a couple male i save up soon


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