# Fin Rot getting worse after water change!



## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

My male betta has pretty severe fin rot so I moved him to a cycled 10 gallon tank to treat him. Before adding the treatment, I tested the water and there was 0 ammonia in it but I did a 25% water change to make it extra clean. My tap water has 1ppm ammonia in it, so I put some prime in to neutralize it while the filter took it out. 
For some reason after the water change, my filter lost it's cycle. Even though I didn't do anything to it, it won't take out the ammonia any more. Because of this, the tank ammonia is at 0.25ppm and I can't get it down. 
When I came down in the morning after the water change, my bettas tail was way worse. There were a lot more tatters and they were deeper. I've never seen the fin rot move so fast before. The next day however, the progress slowed with no visible changes in the night. Why did the fin rot move so fast that first night after the water change? Is this normal? Also, does anyone know why my filter suddenly lost it's cycle? It's been cycled for almost 2 months.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Sounds like fin nipping.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

I have had similar experience with aggressive fin rot, progressing slowly at first and then one day I saw Nova's fins practically dissolving before my eyes.

First thing I did was get him into a 1 gal hospital tank and did an AQ salt treatment for 10 days. The salt slowed the progression, but after the treatment it kicked back up again, so I pulled out the big guns.

So I did a Maracy I and II treatment (both at once) and some stress coat for 5 days last week and I'm already seeing A LOT of regrowth. He did nip his fin a couple of days ago, but I figured it was because he was bored because his hospital tank was empty xD Added a few live plants until I can get his new 5.5 going

Some times I think, fin rot just suddenly spurs into action and just eats away at fins like I saw with Nova.

If I were you, I'd get him in a smaller, slightly easier to manage tank, and do 100% daily changes with AQ salt for a start and see what happens. If it improves then you're good to go. If not, I suggest the maracyn route.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I have a 2.5 gallon I could set up with ammo chips to keep out ammonia. However, I'm worried that 100% daily water changes will stress out my betta so he will be weakened and unable to recover from his fin rot. I want to treat with triple sulfa, but I don't know how to dose a 2.5 gallon. Also, I'm not sure if I could change the water that much while he's on meds. Are 100% water changes necessary if there's 0 ammonia?


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll admit, Nova was a bit stressed after the first couple of times I did the water changes, but he soon got used to it and would just swim willingly into the cup, he's been a bit stubborn lately though XD

The water changes worked just fine for me. As for figuring out dosage I just did the math. For maracyn I and II one packet treats 10 gallons, so I divided each into even tenths and it worked out fine  If I'm correct, triple sulfa is the same with one packet equaling 10 gallons, so you could just divide it into tenths, and use 2 and 1/2 of each section. 

I just wanted to be on the super safe side and not accidentally over dose since I was mostly eyeballing the amount of meds to use, plus I was working with a 1 gal, so I needed to do almost daily changes anyway. 

Is your betta easily stressed? (stripes and all) 

I don't know a ton about medicating, I just know what worked for me. Have you tried the AQ salt route at all? Many times that's better than medicating because bacteria can develop resistances to meds, as can the fish (it can happen with AQ salt too, but I don't think it's as common?) 

Other than that, I don't know what other advise to give, you might try asking Sakura8, she's supposed to be a good authority on these types of things I think


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I would say aquarium salt helps.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> I'll admit, Nova was a bit stressed after the first couple of times I did the water changes, but he soon got used to it and would just swim willingly into the cup, he's been a bit stubborn lately though XD
> The water changes worked just fine for me. As for figuring out dosage I just did the math. For maracyn I and II one packet treats 10 gallons, so I divided each into even tenths and it worked out fine  If I'm correct, triple sulfa is the same with one packet equaling 10 gallons, so you could just divide it into tenths, and use 2 and 1/2 of each section.
> I just wanted to be on the super safe side and not accidentally over dose since I was mostly eyeballing the amount of meds to use, plus I was working with a 1 gal, so I needed to do almost daily changes anyway.
> Is your betta easily stressed? (stripes and all)
> ...


I can't use AQ salt because my tap water has 1ppm ammonia and ammo chips won't work with salt so my betta would constantly be exposed to high levels of ammonia which would prevent healing. I tried it before and it didn't work because of this. My only option is to medicate. I've never seen stress stripes on my betta, but since he's really dark it would be hard to tell. He didn't like being netted though so I know it was stressful for him. How did you get your betta to go into his cup nicely? Also, how long did it take to see regrowth?


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ah, I see now 

At first I would just use the suction effect so he would just get scooped up into the cup, but once he realized it was only for a little while, after a few days I guess? I would just gently put the cup half way in the water, and he would usually just go right into it (I use a clear plastic cup for this if that helps) I don't use nets if I can help it xD

And after the 5 day treatment I had to go away for 2 days, and when I came back he had a little bit of clear-ish regrowth all around the damaged area, so 2-3 days perhaps to see new growth? it's about oh maybe 2 millimeters all the way around xD


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Are you sure the additional damage is fin rot & not from the filter intake or decoration/plants? You're not suppose to net male Bettas because it can damage their fins or at leas that's what I've been told. I always just dip the cup in next to them & they're sucked into it as someone else mentioned.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> And after the 5 day treatment I had to go away for 2 days, and when I came back he had a little bit of clear-ish regrowth all around the damaged area, so 2-3 days perhaps to see new growth? it's about oh maybe 2 millimeters all the way around


So the growth occurred after finishing the treatment? I always thought you were supposed to see it during treatment.
I'll try using a cup to make netting less stressful. Also, should I decorate the QT tank? It would make water changes harder, but it might make my betta more secure with places to rest and hide.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

If he lost alot of fin in a very short period of time it is highly likely that he bit his fins off. 

If it looks like this then its tail bitting. This guy was a HM but he didn't care for his fins and always bit them off










I have one guy that bites them off every time i do a water change..ever.single.time:evil:


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Leopardfire said:


> So the growth occurred after finishing the treatment? I always thought you were supposed to see it during treatment.
> I'll try using a cup to make netting less stressful. Also, should I decorate the QT tank? It would make water changes harder, but it might make my betta more secure with places to rest and hide.


You don't have to fully decorate it. If I have to use a 1g container for a hospital then I put in one silk plant that's of medium size. In my 10g QT tank I have several silk plants, some cave structures & I use the larger rocks for the bottom. Easy to clean & the Bettas have a place to rest or hide.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> If he lost alot of fin in a very short period of time it is highly likely that he bit his fins off.
> If it looks like this then its tail bitting. This guy was a HM but he didn't care for his fins and always bit them off


My betta's tail looks just like this. He has snips in his tail that look like scissors or something cut it. I didn't think it could be tail biting because his pectoral fin looked a bit ragged too, but it looks just like the betta in the picture. I don't know what he has now!


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

can you post his picture?


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Here's some pics. He wouldn't flare so it is hard to see the full rips. What do you think?
















Here is an older pic I took of him about 2 weeks ago.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

He does not look bad at all. I don't have experience with ammonia in the water. Usually i would recommend just more water changes with mild case of fin rot or tail biting.
I am wondering if you can lower the ammonia with ammo chips or Prime and do more water changes?

If your betta don't have any behavior changes and if his fins don't ger worse do not treat him with medications. Especially if you already treat him before. And i am not sure how old is he but if you manage to keep him like that i think he is fine. I am not sure how he was before though. Your fish looks pretty healthy. Those black ends are you sure it not his natural coloration?

If you don't get answer on cycling or if you still have problem with ammonia i advice you to pm Sakura8 or Oldfishlady to look at your post. I would think they might give you advice.
But i don't really see how it got so bad because his fins don't look bad at all unless you will really think it will get shorter and shorter , more ragged, more black at the ends.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I can definitely control the ammonia with ammo chips so do you think I should hold off on the meds? His tail doesn't improve or get worse on a day to day basis, but if the ammonia levels spike, the fin rot will get more severe in the night and then go back to normal. I want his fins to get better and since salt isn't an option, the only thing I can think of is meds. Is there a possibility he could also be tail biting?


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

his tail really don't look bad. From the picture i would not say that he is tail bitter. Usually it looks like ''u'' shape with tail biting. My tail bitter looks a little different. But i think with tail like that they tend to have splits like he has. Less water movement actually better for him. And make sure you don't have plastic plants.

No if he don't get worse i would not treat him. Since you have ammonia problem and he will keep getting the same problem you can't treat him all the time anyway. But if you can get ammonia down and do more water changes. I am curious if you will use half of the bottle water will it help to bring the ammonia down? Did you tried it before? I used deer park brand spring water before for a few of my bettas. 

Also i know some one on this forum that i was talking to and i think she also had ammonia in her tap water. Not sure if it was just one time or all the time. If you want i can try to pm her and see what she does for her betta.

Let me know.

But yes if your fish don't get worse don't use meds. You need to try fix the cause of the problem first. 

How long you have him?


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

The rips make it look like he's tail biting...

And yes, I did see regrowth after the treatment, I think the reason why most people say they see regrowth during the treatment is because most people continue the treatment UNTIL they see regrowth. I didn't have the opportunity to do that because I had to leave town and had no one I could trust to do proper water changes with the meds, so I let it go on it's own, and I saw healing when I returned 

As for the actual problem, I would think, after seeing the pictures, that it's tail biting, the fin rot I was dealing with looked quite different. Nova would develop small pin holes in his fins which would get bigger practically over night and the fin would dissolve around it. Do you see something similar with your betta? The black edges of his fins MAY be fin rot, but it looks more like biting to me :/ I don't really know much about tail biters...


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> Also i know some one on this forum that i was talking to and i think she also had ammonia in her tap water. Not sure if it was just one time or all the time. If you want i can try to pm her and see what she does for her betta.


Do you know who it was? It might be useful to see if there's anything I can do to lower my tap ammonia. I'm hoping that once I get my tank cycled, my betta's tail will recover better.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

yes let me find that person i will be back to you.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

twolovers101 said:


> The rips make it look like he's tail biting...
> 
> And yes, I did see regrowth after the treatment, I think the reason why most people say they see regrowth during the treatment is because most people continue the treatment UNTIL they see regrowth. I didn't have the opportunity to do that because I had to leave town and had no one I could trust to do proper water changes with the meds, so I let it go on it's own, and I saw healing when I returned
> 
> As for the actual problem, I would think, after seeing the pictures, that it's tail biting, the fin rot I was dealing with looked quite different. Nova would develop small pin holes in his fins which would get bigger practically over night and the fin would dissolve around it. Do you see something similar with your betta? The black edges of his fins MAY be fin rot, but it looks more like biting to me :/ I don't really know much about tail biters...


 
If your betta ever has mild case of the fin rot you can and it better to treat it with extra water changes and aquarium salt. Unless it bad case of the fin rot and you need medications. 
As for the tail biting you really also can treat with extra water changes with my tail bitter i really never had any problem i just do extra water changes and put stress coat to prevent infections and his tail heals pretty fast. 
If you need instructions on the aquarium salt treatment let me know. Never follow the box instructions though.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Leopardfire said:


> Do you know who it was? It might be useful to see if there's anything I can do to lower my tap ammonia. I'm hoping that once I get my tank cycled, my betta's tail will recover better.


I texted someone else who knows who it was . So i think she will pm her your link may be she can give you advice


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks, i am interested to find out how she dealt with the ammonia. It seems to be a relatively common problem in some areas.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

BETTACHKALOVE said:


> If your betta ever has mild case of the fin rot you can and it better to treat it with extra water changes and aquarium salt. Unless it bad case of the fin rot and you need medications.
> As for the tail biting you really also can treat with extra water changes with my tail bitter i really never had any problem i just do extra water changes and put stress coat to prevent infections and his tail heals pretty fast.
> If you need instructions on the aquarium salt treatment let me know. Never follow the box instructions though.


It wasn't mild, it was severe and was progressing quickly, tired the AQ salt, didn't work, so I used meds, I research thoroughly before I do almost anything when it comes to my fish.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> f your betta ever has mild case of the fin rot you can and it better to treat it with extra water changes and aquarium salt. Unless it bad case of the fin rot and you need medications.
> As for the tail biting you really also can treat with extra water changes with my tail bitter i really never had any problem i just do extra water changes and put stress coat to prevent infections and his tail heals pretty fast.
> If you need instructions on the aquarium salt treatment let me know. Never follow the box instructions though.


Because my water has such high ammonia, I water changes don't help and in some cases are harmful. I can't use salt either because my tank isn't cycled and the ammo chips I use to control ammonia won't work in salt water. Even though his fin rot might be easily curable by something like salt, my only option is to use meds.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

oh sorry i was texting that girl and taht girl was texting another girl to look at your post. Sorry not sure if she was on line or not. But is he getting worse? Why you want to treat him? If he didn't get worse and if ammo chips control ammonia then can you do more water changes. I mean since ammo chips make water save right? Did i understand it correctly? If it is then you can do more water changes? It just so pointless to treat him if you still continue to have issue with water. If you have him for long time and he been like that all the time then there is not point for meds. Lets wait for that girl to answer one more day. I still hope she can help you. What size of his tank?


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