# Fin Rot Help



## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I just 100% change my betta's water, I noticed he has fin rot so he is being treated for it right now. However, he hasn't eaten since yesterday, when I changed his water. I had guppies, but they passed away yesterday after the water change. I don't know what is wrong, please help! I don't know if its the water or not or if its a symptom of the fin rot.
I changed his tank the same way I always did; cleaned the pebbles and changed the water and treated it with water conditioner. His tank is about 1 gallon tank. I've tried blood worms and pellets but he doesn't seem to want to eat any of it. I've had him for about a year. I don't have a filter because when I had one his tail would get trapped in the bottom and get shredded. The temperature is about 78. Please help!!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How is your betta doing? Something might got to the water obviously since he got like that right after a water change and your other fish died. Please give us update so we can figure out what is going on.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I do 100% water changes only once a month, but I went to get my water tested and everything checked out a okay. The only thing was my hard water level was kind of high but I fixed that quickly. Ammonia levels were between 1-5 so an ideal level so I was told. His tank is a 1.5 gallon actually. He still hasn't been eating and his fin rot is being treated still. He's still kinda lethargic but he seems a bit more active, he is generally a lazy betta but he just seems kind of off this time so I was getting worried.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He just kinda floats at the top at night and swims a little up and down the water column throughout the day. He's just acting strange. I did put a moss rock in there because I heard bettas like them. I was told to not feed him till tomorrow so I will wait in the morning to feed him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ammonia level 1-5 is toooo high. Ok do series of 25 % water changes if he sitll alive AS SOON AS YOU CAN. Do about 6-25% water changes about every 15 minutes and let me know how he doing

1.5 gall tank you need to clean 100% every about 5 -6 days so its definitely water issues , sorry.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm doing 100%water change for him now. He is still making bubble nests. The ammonia was closer to the lower end. He's still alive he seems to be doing okay just not eating. I was told maybe feeding a shelled frozen pea can help but I don't know if that will help. He is just kind of chilling at the top. I will change his water today. I was told to do a 100% water change because of the fin rot. Should I do that or just do a 25%-50%?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

What should I do about the not eating part?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

100% water changes is fine but i think he might has ammonia poisoning from not changing his water enough. If you doing water changes now do it slowly like i suggested , you can do 4-25% follow by 100% . Do it slowly so he get used to the water chemistry slowly, and has less stress 
I am going to made another post sorry i am at work. Just want you to see this post while you doing water changes....


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Even if he making bubble nest doesn't mean he is doing good unfortunately . Its just natural betta instinct. I saw many bettas at the store that were sick and had bubble nest in that cup. 
Do not give him frozen pea please, it will not help with the problem that he has right now. People sometimes recommending to feed it when fish is constipated.

The fact that he is not eating and just chilling at the top meaning something is wrong and he don't feel good. So the first that we can help him is the water changes. Do water changes and see how he doing. We need him to perk up and be little bit more acting which will indicate that he feels better. 
So for now don't worry about eating, we need to make him feel better first. Sometimes ammonia poisoning can be fatal, and the first help again multiple slowly water changes ...
Please keep updated, don't forget water conditioner each time you do a change


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay as soon as I get out I am going to do a water change for him. I'm going to try and make the water a little warmer too. I did notice a thin film on the water surface so I'm going to water change and get rid of that. How many water changes should I do today? How often should I do it?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah he isnt acting like his perky self so I'm getting worried I really want him to feel better. I'll change his water and see how he feels after that. How long can he go without eating? Should the water change make him feel better today? I use API betta conditioner on the water


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

do about 5-25% about every 15 minutes ,and then do full water change (also 15 minuted after the last water change).
About warmer water be careful you actually want the water be the same temperature that he already in so you don't shock him with the drastic diffirence. Its ok if it +- 2* different when you do 25% ,but when you do full water change try to match it. If you don't know how to match it i am going to post instructions for you. I am going to make another post with the instruction

Without eating bettas can go for really long time, even longer than a wk, but it might to weakened his immune system. Can you get frozen blood worms in the store for him. Not the dried bw but the frozen that you can find in the freezer .
If the water change will make him feel better today, i don't think anyone can answer this question. But we hope that he will not get worse and hopefully may be you will see the results after all water changes. Keep eye on him and make sure no other symptoms developed .


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

There are many ways to do a water change and acclimate (reintroduce) your fish back into the tank. Here is a few variations that's pretty simple:
1. can have betta in the changing cup with about 15% of the water and keep adding small amount of the new water about every 5 min for about 5-6 times -this way you he will get used to the temperature

2. Note the temperature of the water.

Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
Repeat steps 5-7, until about an hour has passed. (If he sits longer because you're studying, that's OK.)
Gently release him into the tank.

3. To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.

4. When I change the water I put him in the cup I got him in then I take everything out of the tank, rinse everything with warm tap water. Then I put everything back in the tank, fill it with dechlorinated new water, and then turn the heater on. When the tank water is the same as the cup water , then take the dirty cup water out and a little at a time and put clean tank water in the cup. After that I put the cup in the tank and he swims out.
ANHEL123 is online now Report Post


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay awesome thank you!!! So with the 25% water change I do put him in a separate container change 25% and put him back and do it again in 15 minutes? Sorry I'm just making sure so I don't mess up


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## Rjlupin (Jul 23, 2013)

You had guppies and a betta in a 1 gallon tank that you only cleaned once a month?

Don't add any more fish to that tank. It's probably for the best your guppies died. 1 gallon is small for a betta, but cruel for a betta + guppies.

Do the gradual water changes like the other poster suggested. I'd acclimate him slowly to the fresh water. Right now, don't do anything "treatment" wise except doing gradual gentle water changes. You also should be changing the water in a 1 gallon tank AT LEAST twice a week. I mean, every two days would be ideal. 

Bettas can live a long time without eating, so I'd worry about the ammonia and probably nitrite poisoning for right now.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

No they were in separate tanks I would never put them in the same tank. They each had their 1.5 gallon tanks


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

rosewhip2000 said:


> Okay awesome thank you!!! So with the 25% water change I do put him in a separate container change 25% and put him back and do it again in 15 minutes? Sorry I'm just making sure so I don't mess up


Yes you can do that. Let us know how he doing


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I just did that he kinda seems to swim better but I'm not sure. I had to leave after the 25% change but I put some more water in a cup for the 100% and I'm letting it sit to room temp. I will try the 100% next. Or should I do another 25%?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It ok to do it later. I would do minimum 3-4 water changes 25%) before full water change. I just want to do it gradually to make him get used to the water diffirence.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay so 25% change and put him back wait 15 minutes or more and do it 3 more times and then a 100% water change? Sorry just clairifying


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes, you really can leave him there while you doing 25% water changes. Its just you will have to pour the water really slowly so the water movements don't push him too much. Its up to you. If you can just really gently take him out do water change and put him back its fine. Either way is ok. And yes after you done all 25% water changes do final 100% water change. Then see how he doing. Then tomorrow do full water change again. 
What is the temperature in the tank?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

It's about 78-80 right now. I stuck a thermometer in there to monitor it. Okay he seems to be doing a little better he's moving around just a bit more I think. So I hope so!! Thank you for your help!  I'll keep you updated and possibly ask more questions.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Will wait for the update


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

How many times should I do the 100% water changes? Everyday till he feels better or just today and tomorrow and after that every couple days till his fin rot is better?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He seems to be doing better, he's swimming up and down the water column a littler more. These 25% water changes seem to be wonders for him! Hopefully he keeps getting better. I will try feeding him again tomorrow. Hopefully I'm doing these water changes right hah ;^^


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do full water today and full water tomorrow see how he doing. 1.5 gall you need to do water change about every 5 days. For him for now full daily water changes and watch make sure no other symptoms develop. You can try to feed him today too.
Is there any way for you to post his picture to see his fins. Do you see blackened, ''smudged'' , disintegrating edges?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes! They did look blackened so I'm sure it's fin rot. I'm responding from my phone but I'll post a pic. when I return. He had red tips a couple days ago but they are practically gone. But it's blackened now and I'm worrying about it. I only use 2-3 drops of melafix a day. I think he has bacterial gill disease too. Oh my gosh I feel so bad for him I can believe I didn't know better before this. He seems to be doing better after the 100% and 25% water changes. He was already seeming more active after the 25% ones. I did adjust him after the 100% but I may have made it 1 degree cooler so it's at 76-77 right now. How would I slowly warm it back up? The people at ny petstore said black was good but I don't think it is. I cant tell if it's getting better or not. It's only been about 3 days of treatment. Sorry about the long reply.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Here is a picture of him while he was adjusting to the water.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

sorry it didnt attack earlier


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How is he doing? Any attempts to eat? Is he still lethargic?
What is that white speck on him , right below his dorsal fins? Or its just a picture? Does he has more those white something on him? Do you see raised scales anywhere on his body?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Lol that white speck is actually water just being reflected from the light its not actually anything on him. He has some raised scales but he's had that since I got him and he never seem affected by it. There is one particular spot on his side that is raised and kinda formed a white speck, that was actually another one of my concerns, but I was more focused on his fin rot and lethargy.
He does seem a lot more active now after the water change. When I moved the tank back to its original spot he swam up and down the water column, but he still seems to favor chilling on the top. His fins are black at the tips on some, but I think its dead skin from the fin rot and it got schulfed off cause I don't see it on him anymore. I put a couple drops of melafix in the water.
I dropped a pellet and a bloodworm but he doesnt seem to be interested. He does seem to be doing a bit better though after his water changes. Just either at the bottom or at the top resting on his plant.
His fin rot is pretty bad and I'm trying to cure it. The black part did get schluffed off, but there is still some black tipping on his tail.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Everytime I come to his tank he seems to swim away from me and swim down. Which is not normal for him as he usually swims towards me and seems to greet me everytime he sees me


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I dropped some food in and after I walked away it seemed like he was trying to swim toward it but he didnt make it. So i dropped another one in closer to the middle but he swam down again when i approached.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

the huge concern is white speck under the skin and raised scales. It might be parasites that bury under the skin. So for now do daily water changes. Do not use melafix any more. Melafix or any other medicine with ''fix'' in it has tea tree oil and can damage betta's labyrinth organs. Just do daily water changes. Try to monitor that white speck and raise scales. Make sure it not spreading . Hmm i am thinking if he really needs medications. Hold on let me be back on that , i am going to ask someones opinion on that white speck and raise scales.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry didn't see your last 2 post. He is definitely sick, and the fact that he has that raise scale and white speck is not normal also. Let me be back...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

can i see that particular spot on the picture? Can you take a magnifying glass ans see how it look a like? Is it moving? Is it fuzzy ? Is it stringy? Is it only one on him ?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi rosewhip. Do you think you can get a pic of this white spot? Or describe it really well? Is it a speck like smaller than a cracker crumb or is it more of a lump?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah I'm just worried about him and I'm not sure what to do to fix it. It seems everything hit the poor guy at once. I'm trying really hard to make him as comfortable as possible. I'm also a college student, so unfortunately I can only afford so much. He's always kinda had the raised scales and bump on his side since i've had him. I used to do water changes for him every week until someone told me it was a bad idea so i stopped.
I just really want to make him feel better. I know how badly it sucks that he isnt feeling well


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Its probably about a little bigger then a cracker crumb. its in the middle near the back of his dorsal area. his light is off for the night but i can try and get a picture of it tomorrow. Its really not to big. its smaller then a pea but a little bigger than a cracker crumb. He's always kinda had a lump on his side but was never affected by it, the white bump just showed up recently.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

It is also the only one on him, it doesn't look fuzzy or like its moving it just looks like a raised scale turned white.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

The plant in his tank is covering it right now and he's not really swimming around for me to get a good picture but I will try to get one when I can


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Let us know tomorrow how he doing and about that spot


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I got a look but he moved before I could snap the picture. It doesn't look so much fuzzy as it does kinda shiny.
How would I be able to treat it and his fin rot? I heard melafix was bad and I heard salt can be bad too. I'm using melfix because it is a severe case of fin rot.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am not sure what it is, but i suspect a parasite . Lets wait for Sakura decision . I really think you need to treat it with medications. I am not sure which medication are best and which you can find at the store. I am going to ask Sakura again to look at the post.
But meanwhile do another water change. Are you able to go to pet store and buy aquarium salt? I just don't want you to do 2 trips if it far away. I want to hear which meds Sakura recommending. 
But if it not far away and you can go buy aquarium salt. If you can get a one gall jug. Pre mix 1 tsp/gall and shake it well let it sit a little to make sure its dissolved and do full water change again and make sure you introduce him slowly to the new water. Aquarium salt will help with fin rot and with parasite but it will not treat parasite though. Stop melafix.
Is he the same no changes in his behavior?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He seems lethargic again today, when I came to the tank it took him awhile to swim down to the bottom. I dropped in a pellet again, but he seemed uninterested and ignored it. I'm just worried about using the aquarium salt because I have never used it before. Is there any other fairly inexpensive treatment I can use?
H seemed so much more active yesterday after the water changes, but he's back to just floating at the top and not really swimming around again.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am suspecting that that shiny spot and raise scales is a parasites. 
Medications:
Jungle’s Parasite Clear, API Super Ick Cure, or Kordon Rid Ich Plus. Also Seachem version of coppersafe helps. Malachite green and formaldehyde helps which is available in API Quick Cure
http://www.petguys.com/-042781008000.html

Medications with Malachite green and formaldehyde which is API Quick Cure, Seachem Para Guard has also malachite green

Hold onto the Quick Cure..... Store it in a dark location. (The active ingredients break down when exposed to light.) 

And buy aquarium salt along with medication . You might need it too


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

while you don't have any meds you can use aquarium salt.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I know they have medicine similar to that but for bacterial stuff like fin rot. My only problem is those are quite pricey. Is there anything else I could get that is a little cheaper? Sorry I'm just a broke college student. If that is the only other option then I can buy it but I would rather find a cheaper option......


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i think this one just 4.99. Check where you can find it. I think you can find it at walmart. 
http://www.southernagriculture.com/...Nextag&zmam=17172995&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=33817


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

if you go to the pet store buy aquarium salt also, i think you might need it, if not just keep the receipt .


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay. How would I use the aquarium salt and what would that treat? Sorry I've never used aquarium salt for a Betta fish before.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Aquarium salt helps with fin rot it has antibacterial affect . Also people recommending it for the external parasites. The salt will dehydrate them. But i kind of don't think that salt will get rid of them , i think you need medication. Salt will not harm your betta, even if he will get worse, sorry for saying it - it would be because of the condition he has right now. If it indeed external parasites it can be fatal if left untreated. The concern right now is not a fin rot but if it external parasites, which i am not sure 100% . But by your description shiny spot , raised scales i think that it a parasite under the skin and you need to make sure its not reproduce .... 
If you can go buy aquarium salt and start it ,and wait what is Sakura or other people opinion on that. But i would at least buy it and have it on hand in case you need to use it tonight. Just don't open it until you get another opinion. But i would start aq salt as soon as you can. If you can get one gall jug and pre mix 1 tsp/gall of the aquarium salt. Shake it and make sure its dissolved and not crystals left. Do 2-50% water changes. And just keep him in there . 

Now after you do salt you might prepare another jug of the water . Just clean water (with water conditioner). I want you to do it in case you will need to do a water change today and add medications.

How is spot looking now? Is there more spots like that or it still the only one? Is it looks like under the skin or on top of the skin? I also don't want to confuse it with a lump though, because if it a lump you don't need to treat it.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

The pictures with a lump

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=Mz19UpabC-6q4AOgu4HwBQ&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAg


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=DD59UrqFEtKs4APv-ID4BQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwCA


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

do you think its looks like white cauliflower-like cysts?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't think it looks like cauliflower but I don't also want to misdiagnosis him. I know he's not feeling hot right now


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I got a picture of it, it looks like just a lump to me but i don't to be wrong. Its posted below


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

sorry about the giant picture, I also couldnt get it circled


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay here it is again smaller and circled I got one from the side i am going to upload next


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Here's another picture its more clear in the first pictures I sent the second is kinda blurry cause the light it shining right on it.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I think its the lighting that is making it look like a califlower cause normal it doesnt look like that it looks more like the first image


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

This is the best picture. Its between the two leaves.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

hmmm i don't think its a parasite though. I don't think you need to buy medications. But he is not feeling well and i want you to try small dose of the salt with daily water changes (1 tsp/gall).


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yay!!! I'm excited it's not a parasite yeah I may try that!! He doesn't seem to be getting worse so I'm glad about that. Where can I buy aquarium salt? I checked my petsmart and it looked like they are out of stock. Will it help with the fin rot as well? I just don't want to overdose him with the aquarium salt because I've never used it. How much should I use for a 1.5 gallon tank?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you don't do salt today still change his water again.
Aquarium salt you can get only at the pet store. So try to find it. If not do daily water changes. Aquarium salt you can use 1 up to 3 tsp/gall . So don;'t worry about overdosing. Use 1 tsp/gall do daily water changes. 1 tsp/gall will be about 1.5 or you can just use 2 tsp/gall for your tank.
And i hope i am right about parasites. I know Sakura will be on the forum later on so lets see what she thinks.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay awesome. I was also told to keep the current treatment as recommended. I've only got a couple more days of melafix. I keep getting mixed ideas on the melafix. I heard for severe cases of fin rot it will benefit? I will go check my petstore tonight for the salt though. I had a friend knowledgeable in fish look at him too she said it didn't look like a parasite.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

yes but a lot of people saying melafix is bad and since he is not well i would not use it. Be careful and don't overdose if you use it. He is not well and not getting better and who knows if it can be from melafix. Better go try to find aquarium salt its better than melafix. Keep us updated.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I agree with Anhel. That's not a parasite. It looks like it could be one of two things: either the beginnings of lymphocystis, a viral disease that cannot be treated but is usually non-fatal; or an infected wound. Either way, I agree with Anhel's recommendation of 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay that'd good news! I'm glad it's not a parasite. Um I was told that moving him to a tank with a filter was a good idea? I have one right now that's been cycling. It's the one my guppies were in but it's been cycling for about a week now. They're in the same room so the temperatures are the same. I'm going to go get the pH tested tomorrow for both to make sure they match. There is also a snail in there. Should I move the snail and change the water before putting my betta in?
He is just kinda doing a little swimming at the top but he doesn't seem to be swimming with a lot of movement or energy. I tried offering a pellet again but he didn't even glance over at it so i took it our. He's a hardy boy so I hope he gets better soon.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i would leave him along in his tank for now until he recovers completely. Cycled tank will not help to get him better and less water movements is better for now. And if you will do salt treatment you need to do daily water changes too. Really doesn't matter for betta cycled or uncycled tank. All my bettas live in uncycled tanks. And all my bettas kind old boys. Try to buy frozen blood worms and offer to him. Would be nice if he would it which meaning he is improving. He is not worse but he is not better though . Did you find aquarium salt?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I didn't get a chance to go look yesterday but I'm going to go tonight. I'm gettting the pH tested again. I'm going to do another water change today. He still seemed lethargic this morning when I woke up. I didn't try feeding him yet but I will when I get off work at noon. I couldn't tell if his fin rot is getting better or worse. Should I try feeding some frozen bloodworms if he's not eating the pellets or the dried ones? I can go pick some up when I look for the aquarium salt and get the pH tested


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do not try to change pH in his water because he already adjusted to it . Some people have pH over 8.2 and bettas are fine. They are very adjustable to the pH. Its better to let them adjust than use chemicals and its still will fluctuate. And how i understand he lived all his live in that pH.

Unfortunately if he is not eating food i don't think he will eat blood worms. You can try . You don't loose anything since you can put them back in your freezer and always use them again. I would try. Just make sure you don't buy freeze dried ones 
We talking about the ones that from the freezer. 

I am worry that he is lethargic for that long . If he is not getting better meaning he is getting worse. So if you can try salt as soon as you can. If it would be my fish i would use antibiotics on his. Something is really going on with him. I just hope that salt can help since its has antibacterial affect, not as medications are but still i am hope its can help.
When you get it though do 1 tsp/gall and take time to introduce him slow to the new salt water. Better you can even do 2-50% water changes for the first time.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay I will try and pick some up today after work. I get off in a bit. How would I introduce him? Should I leave him in his tank or put him in a cup? How long between water changes?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry i just came home. You can dissolve salt and do 50% water change. I never ask if you have the heater in his tank or its just your room temperature? 
If you going to do it today just try to match the new water temperature and his temperature. 

When you get your new betta, acclimate him slowly to the tank. There are many ways to do the acclimation process. Here's one method:
Float his cup in the tank for about 20 min. (Longer is OK.)
Add a SMALL amount of tank water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Longer is OK.)
Repeat the above two steps, until at least an hour has passed. (Longer is OK.)... 
When I get a new betta, I continue this process for several hours!
To minimize stress, you can put a towel around the back and sides of the tank. This makes the tank darker, and should have a calming effect.
If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
Gently tilt the cup, and release him into the tank.
How is he doing? Was you able to find salt?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He's in room temperature but it remains a relative 76-77 degrees. Okay I unfortunately haven't been able to go look for the salt but I know I'm not busy tomorrow. He seems to be a little more active I'm not sure he's still at the top of the tank though. Still blowing bubbles.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do a water change if you can today.
The reason i ask about if you have the heater or if it room temperature because its easier to prepare the water. Just fill up the container , put water conditioner and let the water sit out for about 12-24 hrs. This way the water is the same temperature as his . 76-77* is the perfect temperature for the betta


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I've been letting his cup of water he stays in during a water change sit out a bit before I put him in it. Would it be bad if I ended up doing a water change tomorrow morning? I had planned a water change tomorrow.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Tomorrow is my last day with the melafix because I didn't want to stop treatment in the middle because I heard that was bad also. But if its not working I'm going to switch.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Would Bettarevive be a good solution?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Would erthyromyocine be a good option too besides the aquarium salt? Sorry about throwing several questions. I'm just extremely paranoid about the salt because i never used it ;^^ sorry


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i think salt is the better option than melafix though. Not sure how long you are on the forum but i am here for 3 years or even longer, and the salt treatment was proved by many many people on this forum. I am on the forum every day reading many stories and giving advice so i do know outcome....I do know that its kind of scary for the person who never heard of it or never did it 
Read my post #24 which i didn't write it , i copy it , but a lot of people on the forum saying it so i am kind of paranoid you using it. I am not sure if he can be sick because of it actually. It confusing to me. Obviously he is not better at all so i would put him in the clean water and see how he doing. Do multiple water changes , see if it will help. I don't remember when you start melafix? 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=142066&highlight=betta+fish+check+list&page=3


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Oh no, I believe everything you are saying thank you so much for the advice! I just haven't used salt before so i'm being paranoid ;^^ I'm a very paranoid kinda person ;^^
I started it on Monday before I posted on the forum because I went to my pet store first and they suggested melafix. 
I've just never used it before I don't want to mess it up and make it worse. My local fish person I usually consult with suggested finishing up the melafix and see how he feels. My last dose is supposedly tomorrow. I've been talking with him about my betta's condition.
Okie! I will put some clean water in a cup and do a water change. He seemed to feel better and swim some more after the water change. Should I do another one tomorrow? I was scheduled to do one tomorrow because of the melafix and regular tank cleanings from the fin rot.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

My local fish person suggested to follow a set schedule so I could figure out what was helping and not helping.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

OKay just changed his water he's in his little cup acclimating right now. I'm going to move him back in about 20 minutes.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would not use it. I don't think it will help with fish rot. I read if you not overdosing it ok to use , but i never read that it helped any one weather you complete the course of it or not. So i would not. I don't think he is not feeling good because of the fin rot because it not the severe case of it. I think something else is wrong. So what i would do is change his water tomorrow and try aquarium salt. See how he doing. And depending on his condition we can decide what is the next step. There is very good medication for the fin rot but i don't see severe fin rot though. Watch his fins closely and see if it will get worse, the same or better with salt. You need to make sure that fins not getting shorter, have black , discolored,''smudged '' edges. 
API Triple sulfa actually very good medication for the fin rot. 
If you can get stress coat which has Aloe Vera in it and helps with healing


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I've just been putting in 2 drops daily which I was told would be fine since it is a 1.5 gallon. Yeah I don't think it is helping which I was going to talk to my fish person tomorrow about it also. The fin rot is actually pretty bad. He has the red tips and the black fin on the tips. I think they haven't gotten better with the melafix. That why I was curious about the bettafix or erthryomyocen. I noticed a little bit of red tip on his pectoral fin today I may just have not noticed that earlier but I noticed it today. So the melafix is for sure not helping especially after I noticed that.
Its called API Triple sulfa? Okay I will look out for that one too. I may feel more comfortable with that versus the salt because I'm just paranoid about the overdosing and doing it wrong with the salt sorry ;^^.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He had the smudges you were talking about a couple days ago but they fell off after the water change. The way I understood it was that it was the severe fin rot if it did that, that it was dead fin. I do think the melafix for sure hasn't helped if not its gotten worse and I really need a different option of treating it. I just really hope he starts eating again soon. I heard they can go a week or more without eating though.
T_T I'm so worried about him. I really want him to feel better but I don't want to go out of my comfort zone because I'm scared I will do more harm then benefit for him with the aquarium salt especially.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Just finished his water change and put him back. He is chilling at the bottom a little now like he usually does after a water change. Oh! I forgot to say he does have a moss/algae rock in his tank I put in.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry don't know about moss/algae rock. But since i am also very paranoid or will say careful person i afraid of everything . Any live plants that kept in the store tanks can carry ich. So i usually recommending to quarantine it. If you trust your store though , if they don't use the fish water for the plants than its fine. I don't want to scare you.
You can't overdose salt because you can use up to 3 tsp/gall. But since you saying his fin rot bad i would use API Triple sulfa. Hmm i didn't see it on the picture somehow . Do not buy Erythromycin is a good antibiotic for gram-positive bacterial infections, but I don't think he has any a gram-positive infection....Usually all bacteria infections are negative. 
Try blood worms. And i am sorry for so much problem you doing good job for him. I know you want him to get better.
And yes obviously melafix doesn't help , do not use it. 
I am going to tell you a little story in my next post...


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah I got the picture from my phone you can see it clearer on him. Same for the little bump he had its more clear in person. Its pretty bad. I'll go purchase some API triple sulfa tomorrow morning. Ah okay, thank you for letting me know about the erythromycin I didn't know that about it.
He doesn't really pay attention to the dried ones so I'll try some frozen ones tomorrow also. I can buy some and just keep them for after he's better and use it as a treat.
I washed the plant out fairly well and the fish in their tanks with the moss rocks seemed to be healthy and active. I'm very glad my petstore takes care of their animals they have. He's back in his tank now he's kinda chilling on the top still but he was doing a little up and down swimming earlier he would rest a little at the bottom and then swim to the top and swim back to the bottom.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I have 3 or i think he is older now ...so i have 3 years old male betta. Somehow he got very bad case of fin rot. Usually all my bettas are pretty healthy and i do the same water changes for all of them. So i didn't believe my eyes when i though he has fin rot. So it get to the point and really fast that he is HM betta and his fins got to the point that he looked like a baby female betta. He lost all his fins and couldn't even swim or stay upright.
I did course of 14 days and daily water changes of the aquarium salt (3tsp/gall). He survived but his fins didn't grow. So about 5 days later i decide to treat him with API Triple sulfa. I did one round , which i was wrong because you can continue this med's for 14 days. So any way he got better but not completelly.
About 3 wks later i decide finally to do another treatment of aquarium salt , again i used 3tsp /gall with daily water changes. And his fins grew back . And i would say the last treatment of salt helped , i saw drastic change in him. 
My husband was so surprised to see him alive and with fins. Well its took time his find to grow though. But i though he will die. It was back about 3-4 month ago . He still doing good. So sorry for the ling story but this is example of the salt treatment. And it was first time that i did it on my fish. Well my fish never get to the point when he refused food though. And also i really think the frozen blood worms helped a lot. People saying, it has a lot of protein and good for the immune system

Again every fish has different outcome, different immune system.

Sorry i didnt see your post....


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i don't see the picture. Sorry i am going to log out it like 1.37 in the morning and i have to feed all my bettas. I also have to change the water in one of my 2.5 gall tank.
And i still have my bags from the food shopping on the floor. This forum is addicting i really wish your fish will feel better. Will hope for the best but be ready for the worse too. Sorry for saying that. He is sick for the long time. You really doing a lot for the little guy, let see how he doing . Also make sure you do complete change before you put medications in. Get rid of the melafix.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm so glad your betta made it through though! That's awesome news!! Mine's a little fighter so I think he can make it through, I think its the aweful fin rot thats making him feel so crummy . I think I will for sure try that API Triple sulfa too though. I'll double check to see if my petstore stocked up on their aquarium salt, but I may save that one fore last because of my paranoia ;^^
I live on an island so the petsmart doesn't stock to frequently but when it does it does in bulk. I have a petco a little whiles away I can go to if I really need to also. I'm willing to try anything to make him feel better. API will be next on my list! With the API Triple sulfa would I do daily water changes?
He's moving a little more on the surface after the water change. I think the water changes give him some energy. Tried another pellet just now and he kinda just swam backwards away from it so i pulled it out.
How big is your tank if you don't mind me asking? And this is going to sound like a silly question but there a way to give the betta nutrients if he won't eat?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Right! I'm going to go return it tomorrow, my petstore will let me return it as long as I have a reciept. One thing I love about my store hah. No worries thanks for all your help!
I'll try and feed him again in the morning and buy some blood worms. He seems to be doing a little more swimming now after the water change. I think those give him energy  lol. Yeah I'm trying my best to keep him well He's a little fighter so I think he'll make it.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Just did a complete change so should I do one again tomorrow before I put the API Triple sulfa?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Would suggest maybe one of those self release betta tablets, that some people use when they go on prolonged vacations, for him since he's not eating? I'm not sure if that would help...and I know they can cloud the water really fast, but I was wondering cause it's been almost a week.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

No i wold not use any tablets. If he will not eat i don't think anything would help. I am hoping blood worms but again if he is not eating he will probobly not eat them. 
A lot of people recommending to soak food in the fresh squeezed garlic. You can try that with blood worms.
Water change is good for him. Yes do another change before you put the medications.
See if the store has stress coat.
You can order vitamins that you can add to the water and also soak food in it. I do't think stores carry them , you need to order them. Let me know if you want to and i will give you the name.
Would you able to post a picture of his tail ?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

forgot to answer your question. I have 3- one gallon tanks at work, 6-2.5 gall tanks at home and one 5 gall at home


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

My camera isn't very good for getting a picture of his tail but I will try.
I just went to the store and just my luck! They just restocked in their aquarium salt!  They were out for like a week, I came it at the right time. I bought some aquarium salt and got some more instructions for the pet store people too.
I bought some frozen blood worms too so I will try those out when I get back to my place. Does the garlic harm him if its to much? I've never soaked the food in garlic either.
For the aquarium salt should I remove 50% and then slowly add a little bit of salt water each time? Thats what I was suggested at the pet store. I checked the instructions on the back of the box and it told me how to do a 1 gallon tank too hah.
My store did sell the Triple sulfa but it was about $16 o_o it was kinda pricey. The aquarium salt was cheaper and I feel better after asking questions here and talking to my pet store people about it. I will give it a try tonight. Sorry, would you be able to give me some more instructions on aquarium salt and my betta if its not to much trouble. How long/daily/weekly should I use the aquarium salt? How many times should I change the water and re-add the aquarium salt?
I think I'm going to try the garlic first before I order vitamins.
He is swimming around the top of the tank a little more now so thats good, but he wouldn't eat a pellet i dropped in again.
Sorry about the long post ;^^


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

The pet store people also gave me some frozen brine shrimp, do betta's eat that? I wasn't sure. Would that be a good thing to try for him too? I'm willing to try almost anything to get him eating again. I heard they can go about 2-3 weeks without eating if they're healthy....which worries me cause he has the fin rot right now.
How long does it take before the aquarium salt shows benefit as well? I did return the melafix because it was not working for him at all.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I bought some frozen blood worms and I'm defrosting them right now to try and feed him when they're done. What does the garlic do?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ok the box instructions just for the preventative care. The theraputic dose is 1 tsp/gall up to 3 tsp/gall. So lets start from 1 tsp/gall. Primix 1tsp/gall shake it and make sure it dissolved , no salt crystals left. You can use one gall jug if you have it. Yes you can start with 50% water change. You can do a few ways . Do 50% water change today. Tomorrow - pre mix 1 tsp/gall and do full water change. Let us know how he doing. 
Frozen brine shrimp is very good too.
Did you tried the food? Garlic is fine you can soak any food in it. It will dissolved with the water any way. Garlic is also very good for the immune system.
How he doing?

We posted at the same time , i didn't see your post ....


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hah its cool thank you! For the full water change tomorrow how should I introduce the salt water? I will mix it tonight so i can have it ready for tomorrow. Should I put saltwater in the 50% water change or just start the salt tomorrow? Sorry about the several posts ;^^
I haven't tried it with garlic but if he doesn't eat it I will buy some garlic tomorrow and soak it. Also is it okay to feed it while the blood worms are still frozen or cold? Or should I stick them in the microwave and warm them up.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I got a picture too its a repeat but these are focused on the tail. I circled it


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you pre mix it tonight do 50% water change today. You can even leave him in the tank. Take out 50% of the water and replace it with salt water, just pour it really slowly so you don't push him around. The fins not as bad as i thought though.
I have a few questions. 
The picture on the right hand side,what is that whitish spot right in the middle bottom of his body close to his anal fins?
This is betta anatomy so you know where is his anal fins
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=DEeAUs3JEpD94AO5x4GIBw&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAA

And another question there is not more then one spot that we are talking about right? It still the only one spot and its not spreading?
And is there any more scales on his body that are raised ?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Do I need to add a little bit of salt water every few minutes or can I just pour it slowly in. Mix 1 tsp per gallon and dissolve the salt and slowly add the salt water?
Oh that was the spot we were talking about earlier in the forum that we said wasn't anything to worry about. Nope just that one, the rest is just the lighting from my lamp I shone on him so I could get a good picture.
For the bloodworms its okay if they are cold and slightly frozen still? Or should I wait till they fully defrost and maybe microwave it a bit?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry i didn't answer about blood worms i am doing a lot of stuff between talking to you , walking my dog out side,cooking, feeding and answering other threads, vacuuming , listening my husband lol 
Ok about water you can really keep slowly adding first 25% then wait about 5 minutes and add another 25 % its should be fine. 

Blood worms . Let it thaw , i think it will take a few minutes. You can take a tweezers and try to hold it in front of him. You will see if he will try it or not. Do not put it in the water because it will sink to the bottom right away. 
I wish he would go for it. But i don't think so. I know i am being pessimistic, sorry.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hah no worries totally understand. Yeah I'm headed to ny grocery store to buy a gallon jug of water to mix for the salt. Yeah I'm hoping he will. I'll try soaking it in garlic if he doesn't. How long will it take before he starts feeling the benefits of the aquarium salt?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

difficult question...Observe him see if he is the same, worse or better. Again even if he will get worse it will not because of the salt. So don't worry about using it. Let see tomorrow. I guess the huge improvement would be if he will eat anything . Salt is not strong as the medications though. Sometimes it might not help and you still need medications. And also depend on how he feeling i would think you will need to increase the dosage of the salt. 1tsp/gall is the lowest dose.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

So should I do the 1tsp/ gallon tonight and see how he feels after the full 1tsp/gall change tomorrow and then determine if I should increase the dose? Or should I try 2tsp/gallon?
Also I would still use water conditioner correct?
I just purchased 2 gallons of water: 1 gallon drinking water, and 1 gallon spring water from the grocery store.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

No do 1 tsp/gall today and change 50% .Tomorrow 1 tsp/gall and do full water change. Then will see. Oh yes definitely the same am mount of the water conditioner as always. Always add a water conditioner.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay perfect I just dissolved the salt so I'll do a water change now. *sigh* tried a blood worm, he didn't want it :/
I'm really hoping this saltwater will make him feel tons better and he'll start eating again.
I will change the water and let you know how he feels after it!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't expect him to get better right away unfortunately. I will try to wait for the update, getting late and i need to get up tomorrow at 6 am. But i will hopefully be able to check on the forum tomorrow from work. Sometimes the internet not working when i am at work. But usually i am on pretty much every day.GOOD LUCK!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

No worries at all, thank you so much for all your help!! I really appreciate it! 
I just finished his 50% water change and swapped with with the aquarium salt water. 50% water and 50% aquarium salt water. He's doing his little bottom floating after water changing again. So tomorrow just do a full water change with the full aquarium saltwater? Should I purchase another medicine besides melafix? Or just stick to the saltwater for now. Sorry about the many questions hah ;^^


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How he doing? Yes today full change. And he is not better lets increase the dose to 2 tsp/gall and do full water change. I would buy API Triple sulfa if you can. You can have it on hands so you can use it right away if you need it. You always can return it. 
How he doing?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He still is floating on the top but he seems to move positions more. I haven't tried to feed him yet because of class but I will when I get back. I haven't gotten a close look at him. So tomorrow I should switch to 2 tsp if it's not working with the 1 tsp?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would do it today. When you change his water do full water change and do 2 tsp/gall. Also make sure there is not more visual symptoms developed on his body. 
Will wait for the update.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay awesome! I'll add the 2tsp/gall of salt in his water change today. Which is better? Tetracyclin or Triple sulfa?
I tried a pellet but he didn't eat it so I'm defrosting the bloodworms and I will try one of those again before I head to class. If he doesnt eat it i'll try soaking it in garlic.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

His tail is already looking so much better!! The redness that was on his tip the other day is almost not there, there is still a little bit but it is disappearing! The salt seems to be doing wonders for him!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He didn't eat the bloodworms , but I am glad the salt is helping his tail


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

lol i like that you are so euphemistic , i am always apposite though, which works at the end . Continue with the water and salt. 
Triple sulfa is better than Tetracycline. 
Is he at least swimming a little bit or just hanging there? I am recommending higher dose of the salt and i want you to increase it up to 3tsp/gall. So the day after you do 2tsp/gall increase it to 3 tsp/gall. 
Keep doing good job!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I think he's swimming a little more but he still swims awkward lol. But he swims awkward sometimes anyway so I'm not sure. He is moving around on the top a little more though I think. I bavent been in my apartment much to tell but I did notice him moving positions around the top of the tank. Hah I try to be.
Okay so 2tsp today with full water change and 3 tsp tomorrow? Should I do a full water change tomorrow too?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes do full water changes daily  Keep me updated i am very worry .


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okie dokie, will do 
Yeah same here ;^^ his fin rot seems to be getting better but he's just not eating which is worrying me. A friend had the same problem where her betta had fin rot and stopped eating for 3 weeks but was fine and started eating again after the 3 weeks and his fin rot got better. So that gives me a little hope *fingers crossed*
I am doing the water change now and setting up the water I'm going to let it sit in the jug a little before I start the change and tank him out of the tank.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes i hope too. Better if he is more active too. If he is sitting in one spot , or laying on the bottom , or just hanging on the top it also not a very good behavior. If he would more active it would be a better sign. 
Good luck will wait for another update


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Acclimating him back now. He is swimming a little more I think but I'm not sure. He seems to be doing a little more swimming but he likes hanging out on top. He doesn't hang in his plant as much anymore he more moves around the top now


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay just put him back in, he just seems like he has trouble swimming down again, but he's able to swim down when he wants to. Hopefully he gets better. But I'm excited his fin rot is look SO much better. Hopefully as that heals he'll feel tons better


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He gets moving through, just once he gets going he doesnt seem to have trouble swimming


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ok i have a question, are those symptoms below looks like he has?
unable to swim properly, characterized by floating at the top, sinking to the bottom and or listing sideways. The betta often looks like it takes tis a great deal of work to swim to the bottom (if floating) or reach the surface (if sinking) and will pop back up like a cork or sink like a stone.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah kinda I think he night have swim bladder disease T_T


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He's able for the most part to stay the bottom when he swims down though.
Also will the salt treatment help with this?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sometimes the salt treatment can help, sometimes not. Depends on what is causing the symptoms.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

We were using aquarium salt. Would be able to buy Epsom though? Sorry Epsom would help more in this situation. If you can go to any pharmacy department and try to find 100% Epsom salt. Unscented without any additives Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate). Epsom salt is helpful with bouyancy . The instructions are the same as for the aquarium salt. And its also has antibacterial affect . 
Sakura originally i though that API Triple sulfa will help since he has fin rot. Now since he has bouyancy do you think its better to treat him with API General cure OR Tetra Parisite Guard?
His poop was normal , well he is not eating now so i don't think he pooped recently. He is not bloated. Hopefully he don't have internal parasites.

Or try Epsom for a few days and see how he doing?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I prepared the water with 3tsp/gallon for tomorrow's water change, should I use the aquarium salt tomorrow and then switch to epsom salt? Is the epsom salt stronger? I bought tetracycline, but I will return it tomorrow. I feel so bad for him! He doesn't feel well at all especially with the swim bladder disease now :/
After the aquarium salt treatment his fin rot already seems to be doing better so I am very glad about that. I go buy some epsom salt tomorrow as well.
Do you have any suggestions about the not eating part Sakura8? It's been a little over a week. I just bought some frozen blood worms but he doesn't seem to interest in it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Epsom salt is different than aquarium salt. It's actually not a true salt but magnesium sulfate. It's used as both a laxative and a muscle soak in humans. You can get it in the pharmacy section of any drugstore. Just make sure it's non-scented and has no dyes.

Triple Sulfa cannot be combined with other meds. Has he completed a full course of the Triple Sulfa? If not, finish out the course and then we'll switch. In the meantime, try the epsom salts. You can go ahead and switch him at any time.

For the eating . . . eek. Well, sometimes medicine can dull their senses so they lose their appetite but loss of appetite is also a sign of being pretty sick. :/ I hate it when they don't eat. There are a couple of tricks to try. First, if you can, try soaking the frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp in garlic juice. Garlic is an appetite stimulant as well as a supplement. You can use the garlic juice that's in preminced jars of garlic or you can crush up a clove yourself, mix it with some tank water, and then soak the food in that.

The second trick is . . .trickier. It involves finding a source of live food.  Live brine shrimp, live daphnia, that kind of thing.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

So the epsom salt should help him more then the aquarium salt? Okay I will finish that 100% water change tomorrow with the aquarium salt and then switch him to the epsom salt. Should I start with 1tsp/gallon and move up like I did with the aquarium salt? Or is it okay to just start out with 3 tsp/gallon or just stick to the 1tsp/gallon for the epsom salt.
I haven't started the triple sulfa yet so no worries about that  I was going to try the salt treatment first. His fin rot seems to be doing better with the salt treatment already.
How long should I use the epsom salt or aquarium salt treatment?
I did get some frozen brine shrimp from the pet store for free, I've been in so much I think they know me by now hah. I will try the garlic thing tomorrow. I dropped another pellet in and he doesnt seem interested again  he just kinda swam away from it.
Where would be a good place to purchase those I don't think my petsmart sells those sadly? I will definitely try those too if I can find them 
It is odd though sometimes it looks like he's having buoyancy problems other times he doesn't he is quite an interesting fish for sure. Would the epsom salt be good for the fin rot as well? Sorry about the 50 million questions ;^^


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Generally, the rule of thumb is aquarium salt for external problems like open wounds and fin rot. Epsom salt for internal problems like bloating and constipation.

I can't remember now (14 pages!), is he bloated or just having swim bladder problems? Epsom salt doesn't always help with swim bladder problems, depending on what could be causing the problems. If the buoyancy problems are most likely caused by constipation or bloating, it can help. Otherwise, it's sometimes a shot in the dark BUT it's a shot in the dark that doesn't hurt unlike using the wrong kind of medication. That's why I prefer to use epsom salt whenever possible in place of meds. 

If you prefer, you can start at 1 tsp and move your way up. Epsom salt will help a bit with fin rot but not as much as aquarium salt. How does the fin rot look? Do the edges of his fins have blackened edges or are the fins just torn up a little?

Aside from online sources, the best place to look for speciality fish meds and foods are local tropical fish stores (LFS). You can check google or the yellow pages to see if you have any good stores near you. Online sources for meds include Pet Supplies | Dog & Cat Supplies, Pet Meds | DrsFosterSmith.com Pet Products and Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more. You can also find some good meds on AquaBid.com - Sell or buy aquarium equipment and fish in an auction format, especially the hard to find levamisole which I hope you will never ever need. 

Can you describe his swim bladder problems a little more? How often does it occur? Is it a constant thing or does it come and go? Have you noticed if it occurs after a water change?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

After the aquarium salt treatment his tail is looking so much better! His fins still look kinda torn up. He had the red tips and the black smudges but those are almost gone already. But I still do see signs of fin rot, but I am so glad the salt is already showing its benefits!
Yeah I tried the melafix medicine on his fin rot and it was not helping at all so I switched it out for the aquarum salt. It almost looked worse after using the melafix because it looked like it spread to his dorsal fin- they were starting to get red tips with the melafix.
I noticed it happens sometimes whenever he tries to swim downwards. It seems like he kinda floats upwards diagonally. But other times he is fine to swim down. He tends to swim the most after water changes so he sometimes swims down with difficulty other times I see him swim down with zero problems at all.
He doesn't seem bloated to me, I'm not sure about the constipation though because he hasn't eaten in week. If it is constipation I heard feeding a shelled pea is a good solution to it. I feel like the swimming difficulties come and go but I do notice he does have the difficulties even if they are occassional granted he isn't swimming to to much now. But more movement then before.
Yesterday, with the 5% 1tsp/gallon water change, I noticed he had difficulties swimming down, he seems to wedge himself below a leaf like to prevent himself from floating up, other times he's floating fine in the middle of the water column. But today with the 100% 2tsp/gallon water change he seemed to swim fine but I didn't get to monitor him for very long. He still seems to favor the top of the water column versus below or middle but he is swimming around the top ocassionally changing positions on the top. I noticed his swimming problems only recently though when he started swimming a little more.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Keep us updated.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Checked on him this morning and dropped a pellet in and pulled the blood worms out of the freezer to offer him one after my classes. He was resting on the plant when I first saw him but then he moved to the edge of the tank.
Should I treat for swim bladder disease? I am going to go buy some epsom salt today after my classes. I think I am going to finish the 3 tsp of aquarium salt I prepared yesterday and then try the epsom salt treatment tomorrow. Should I start it tsp to tsp like I did for the aquarium salt?
He didn't eat the pellet as far as I know but I dropped one in. I haven't noticed any weird swimming yet, but he's been on the water surface again.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes start with 1 tsp/gall Epsom and increase to 3 tsp/gall on second day of the treatment. And if you bought Tetracycline i would return it.
Don't forget unscented Epsom without any additives.
Sorry and good luck


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okie will do! I'm going to go return the Tetracycline today and I'll stop by my CVS to buy some Epsom salt. I'll let you guys know how he is feeling after his water change today


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

good luck


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay just did another 100% water change, I tried feeding him some brine shrimp but no luck  I tried feeding him in his acclimating cup but he isn't eating it either.
He's acclimating right now. He seemed to be swimming with less difficulties now. I haven't been able to watch him very much today ether though.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Seems like he is the same . There is not improvement and he is not getting worse. 
I know i ask you before but i don't remember what is the answer sorry. Do you have small private fish stores near you? I was thinking if he will not improve withing 2 days may be its a good idea to use medications. There is one medication that is very good and treats externally as well as internal infection. But you can get it only at the private stores or order on line.I just want to make sure that when you need it , you have it.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Not near me unfortunately  the closest store besides petsmart to me is a petco. His tail looks better but it still looks raggedy. I'm glad he's not getting worse, I just wish he would get better 
I've tried the brine shrimp and the frozen blood worms but he didn't want it  He is swimming a lot better though I didn't notice any weird swimming like I did yesterday.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do 3 tsp/gall Epsom tomorrow


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay I will try that. Is there a specific brand I should buy? I did the 3tsp aquarium water change today so tomorrow I should switch to the Epsom salt? Would it be bad to start with the 3tsp right off? Or should it be okay?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry i forgot , i though you was using Epsom first day today. No start Epsom from 1 tsp/gall and next day go to 3 tsp/gall. No specific brand just 100% Epsom (magnesium sulfate) unscented without any additives.
If you look at the active ingredient it will say Magnesium sulfate 100%.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay will do! Yeah I went looking for some but I wasn't sure which one didn't have additives ;^^. He still has a little bit of fin rag and smudge on his fins from the fin rot. The Epsom salt can help with that too? I remember Sakura talking about how the Epsom salt helped more internally for things like swim bladder disease. ;^^


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Epsom salt will help with fin rot too. 
When you take the box see the ingredients. It should be 100% Magnezium slufate. Let us know what writen on the box
The box don't say unscented though . But the scanted will say scanted though
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=dZGDUpChOYOSyAH7vYGgAw&ved=0CEMQ9QEwAA

Any changes the same, worse ?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Sadly still the same, I haven't tried feeding him yet but I was going to try some blood worms when I got back.
Okay will do! I'll stop by my CVS today after classes.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:/ Silly poor fish. Lots of things can cause loss of appetite and partial swimming problems; thing is it's really hard to know exactly WHAT is causing the symptoms without doing expensive tests (assuming one can even find a qualified vet to do them). All I can do is take a look at the symptoms and make an educated guess about the most likely cause(s).

In this instance . . . looking at his history of fin rot and now his lack of appetite and buoyancy issues, the cause would be a bacterial infection that has gone internal. Several things can cause fin damage, including external parasites like costia and flukes. What I think may have happened is that he contracted a secondary bacterial infection that has gone internal and is affecting his organs. Our best bet is to treat the internal problem with an antibiotic that absorbs well through the skin and gills. The only one available is Seachem Kanaplex, which has to be ordered from online. You CAN use Mardel Maracyn 2 but I don't really recommend it for a bunch of reasons. It's not effective in high pH, a lot of bacteria has built up a resistance to it, and it can damage the kidneys.

A second medication possibility is to use API General Cure which will treat the possibility of external parasites. The ingredient metronidazole in this med may also help treat the possibility of bacterial infection but that's not guaranteed.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I think he actually is a little bloated I just checked on him. I bought some Epsom salt that I'm dissolving right now, I'm going to do another water change later.
I know my petsmart sells the API General Cure, so I can go purchase some tomorrow. It won't harm him if he doesn't have it right? Just checking cause I know some medicines can be harmful if they don't have the issue.
I know Triple Sulfa was mentioned earlier in the posts, would that be a good option for everything he has? The internal bacteria, fin rot, and possible swim bladder stuff?
I'm going to try soaking his food in garlic tomorrow. I was told to use the garlic on the pellets. I have an exam tomorrow so I've been studying for that so I haven't had much time to go buy it yet but I'll buy some tomorrow 
I feel so bad for him though  I just wish he would get better soon.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

No API Trimple sulfa is good only for the fin rot, but since he is not better for so long time and now also bloated - API General Cure or the kanaplex r are better choice. I know you can't get Kanaplex though. 
Do Epsom and get API General cure. I don't remember though i think it has to be predissolved before you add it in the tank. I think i saw Sakura recommendation somewhere or i might be wrong?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah the Epsom salt is dissolving in the water right now so hopefully it should be dissolved quickly. I gotta be extra careful about water temperature today though cause the temperature dropped so I'm letting it sit out before changing it.
She recommended API general cure.  I can go pick some up tomorrow and buy some garlic too. I think everyone at my petstore knows me and my betta now hah.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You doing good job trying to help him , and i am sure people and betta appreciate it


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I just wish it would be fast acting lol. Can I use the API General Cure and Epsom salt together? Cause I remember the Triple Sulfa had to be used separately.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You can but i am thinking ....Use 3 tsp/gall Epsom until you start him on medications , then stop Epsom and start medications. We always can start Epsom again after medications to prolong the treatment. Well unless Sakura will think differently she is more knowledgeable than me.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay, I am doing a 1 tsp/ gallon change today. When should j start the API general cure? So I should stop that in general and follow the water change schedule on the box when I do start the general cure?
Also since I only have a 1.5 it should just be a pinch of a grounded up tablet? Since it's for a 10 falling tank usually.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

The Epsom salt brand I purchased is swan Epsom salt. It says the active ingredient is Magnesium Sulfate USP (heptahydrate) 100%. Purpose is saline laxative.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Oksu just tried to acclimate him in his cup using the water previously in the tank and half with the epsom salt. He's kinda twitchy in his acclimating cup....o_o did I do this wrong....? T_T


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay removed him and put him back in his tank. He's still twitching though...I'm worried about him now....what should I do?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

does he maybe have dropsy?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm getting worried, I'm going to try and change him back to his aquarium salt just in case, I'll try the epsom salt tomorrow morning again. Sorry! I just didn't know what to do..


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Ah! I think I'm panicking now T_T Okay so since he was twitching I moved him back to aquarium salt he's still twitching though. I read online that it could be velvet too. So i took a picture with the lights off and with flash. This is what he looked like


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He was in the epsom salt for about 30-40 minutes. Sorry about the hundreds of posts.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

His water is pretty cold because of the temperature drop we've had on the island, but I did acclimate him..I'm just super worried cause he started the twitching after the Epsom salt treatment today. I put a light on him to try and slowly warm the water back it. The temperature was about 71-72 degrees


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay so the good news is he is twitching less...but that was after I slowly warmed the water up again with a 50% water change and slowly adding in 75*F temp. He seems to swimming a little easier but he is still bloated T_T. I really hope I did the right thing. I read that on a different post.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay so morning update. He isn't twitching anymore that I can notice, but he isn't moving around much either. He's back to floating on his plant.....
I'm not sure what to do  I don't know if I did the epsom salt wrong or if he just reacted badly to it or something. Sorry about the many posts. Any ideas of what to do?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

The temperature outside is about 54*F, and its about 70*F in my apartment. I think our heater went out. Could that be why he's barely swimming to? Cause of the colder temperature?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

No the Epsom is right. Twitching can be for a few reasons too. Hmm i just think that twitching contributing to the problem that he has,and sorry for saying that i just think his health deteriorating ....and the twitching is one of the symptoms ...
How is his poop , is it white or still normal color?
Can you go buy API General Cure and start him on that as soon as you can?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Since he hasn't eaten yet I haven't noticed any poop . I think he might be bloated from the swim bladder disease too. Yeah I will go purchase that as soon as I am out of class and do it tonight. What is the API general cure going to take care of?
Should I try a shelled pea because he is bloated? Or just try the pellets and garlic today? I can go buy garlic juice today.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Since he does have the salt in the water should I change it out 100% before adding the API general cure?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry we posted at the same time , i didn't see your post , take me long time to write since i am at work.
Kind of cold . Try to keep him in the warmest spot and put the plastic wrap on the top of the tank to retain the humidity . And may be wrap the tank with something worm. Don't forget to leave the space for the air circulation.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

give me a few minutes..sorry i have a few people in front of me at work that i have to help...


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

No worries at all thanks for helping!
I have him placed furthest from the window, and I turned his light on for him to add a little heat. After the 3rd water change last night the temperature as back to 76, but I think it dropped overnight cause of the temperature change T_T. Would wrapping his tank in a towel maybe help? I don't have any plastic wrap we actually just ran out a couple days ago.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes make full water change. How is his poo? I am trying to understand if he has internal parasites. 
Bloating can be due to internal parasites, constipation, dropsy.
Internal parasites - he would have abnormal poop
Dropsy - if you look at him from the top is his scales raised?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Didn't notice him pooping  so it maybe constipation, he doesnt have any of the pine-coning that usually accompanies dropsy. I don't think he's pooping cause he hasn't eaten recently. Just the bloating and he seems to be angled while resting with his butt kinda higher than his head.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Wrap with anything you have for now , especially at night. Sorry its 17 pages and i am posting a lot on the forum so sometimes i don't remember all details. Somehow i forgot and i though you have a heater. You live in the dorm? or i am wrong?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

When you able to buy general cure? I think since it the only option among the other medications that you have in the store - it would be the best option for him now.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I have class until 2, but I am going to head straight to petsmart after that. I live in an apartment complex on my campus. But I think our heater went out last night so that would explain the temperature drop in his tank. Once i buy it I will start him on it right away.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

oh good that your heater is working. Ok will wait for another update. Oh and god luck!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay before I left for class I wrapped a towel around his tank to try and keep him warm


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

If the heater back and working then you should be fine.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

The heater is still down I think, but I haven't been back in my apartment. It was just a single towel so I don't think it will heat it to much


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Quick question, would the triple sulfa be better or the general cure be better? cause he has the bloating and the fin rot. If so what would the general cure treat? Sorry ;^^


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

General Cure will treat internal and external parasites which could be the cause for both his bloating and his fin problems. Internal parasites could cause bloating. External parasites can attack the fins and leave open wounds that allow secondary bacterial infections to set in. They can also cause internal damage if the infestation is bad enough.

I'd definitely suggest going with the General Cure.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay perfect! I just bought some 
I was wondering how much I should use? I have a 1-1.5 gallon tank and I know each tablet treats 10 gallons. Should I smash the tablet and just use a pinch?
I also bought some minced garlic for the garlic juice, should I soak a couple pellets in to see if he'll eat it?
He's just resting at the top now, I haven't noticed anymore twitching so I'm glad about that.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

General Cure, right? That should be in little packets. Here's the best way to dose a small tank. 

Find a container that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water and fill 'er up. Add the packet of meds and mix well. Now, the ratio is 1/2 cup to 1 gallon of tank water. Since his tank is 1 and a half gallons, pour 3/4 cup of medicated water into his tank. You can save the rest of the medicated water for up to 24-36 hours to use for water changes and redosing but after that, you'll need to make a new batch.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Would it be okay to use a kitchen measuring cup? If so is it possible to still use it for food after washing? Or find a separate container to pour?
Okay I think its a 1.5 gallon, but it may actually only be a 1 gallon because of the water I leftover from my tank changes.
How often should I change the water and add the medicine? every 24 hours?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

For a gallon, I would change the water every day, yes, and redose. 

I'm not sure I'd use anything that you intend to use for food later on, though. :/


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hah yeah i figured okay I will just eye it than. 3/4 medicine and the remainder is just dechlorinated water correct?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okie just did 1/2 cup medicine mixed with dechlorinated water, he's acclimating right now. The package says every 48 hrs do a 25% water change, but should I just do a 25% change with medicine tomorrow?
I also checked on his fin rot I'm not sure its getting better, I noticed a strip of red on the clear part of his anal fin. It maybe parasites then? Since it hasn't fully healed yet and may not be improving. It is still no where near his body so I am glad about that.

Also should I try soaking some pellets in garlic juice and see if he'll eat it? Could he be constipated which is why he isn't eating?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes you can do water change tomorrow and redose the meds.
You can try to soak pellets in the garlic juice and see if he eats. You can try to feed him throughout the day when you at home. Just remove food if he don't eat. But it really good idea try to ofer food when you have time, as much as you can.
I don't think that strip of red indicate a parasite though.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okie I'll try and soak some in a cup and drop a pellet in. How long should I continue the general cure? It says it needs at least 2 doses


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay I tried a pellet in garlic he didn't seem interested  I'm going to leave it in there a little before I take it out so maybe he'll want it then


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He is doing more swimming than he was yesterday too so I'm glad about that


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I believe you can continue General Cure for 14 full days. I will check it tomorrow and let you know


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey General Cure you can use 14 days and i am fairly sure you could go as long as 21 days with no side effect.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay thats great! I tried feeding him some last night but he wasn't interested again  Its almost been 2 weeks since he ate.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry, i don't know what to say I just hope that medication can help to treat with whatever he has. You doing you best to help him , this is as much we can do. Will wait for another update. I don't think there is any changes today though
Try to feed any time you can.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Nope no changes really, he is moving more then he did before, but still chilling on the top or bottom. I still need to do a water change with the medicine tonight though. Should I do the 1/2 a cup of medicine again?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

His tank is FULL of bubble nests now too


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

His fin rot just seems to be getting worse


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok instruction are for 25% water changes every 48 hrs right? You can really wait 48 hrs and then do 50% water change instead of 25%. But add medications back for the amount of the water that you are changing.
If you already did the change that is also fine.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am looking at the picture you posted in your post #165. You saying his fin rot is rose. Is it more black , discolored edges? 
Is he bloated?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Oh shoot I did a full water change. Okay, I won't be home tomorrow so it won't hurt if I did a change Sunday? I have some one taking care of him checking on him while I'm gone.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He has the rose tips and some black smudges. He's bloated too. I noticed more rose on him today when I did the water change


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

That is perfectly fine that you did it. As long as you added medications it fine. You did good. Just make sure whoever check on him don't do anything please. I was helping someone on this forum and she left for 2 days leaving healthy betta and after someone check on the betta and decided to change the water , she came back to dying fish. So please tell them do not touch or change anything. He will be fine just try to feed him again and before you go.
And do not stop the medications please. You can do a change when you come back.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah no worries I'm just gone Saturday and I'll change it again when I return Sunday. My roommate will be taking care of him. I'll make a new batch of the general cure too when I get back too 
Oh! Would you suggest a shelled pea? Since he has the bloating.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Not really , he will not eat it any way. If he is not eating he will not eat a pea either. I am just worry that bloating can be also due to internal parasites. In this situation the poo will be abnormal color.
Some people do recommend a frozen pea,boil , smashed. Some people don't .The best to feed with a frozen daphnia. But again he is not eating anyway

So you out for a Saturday then i will wait an update on Sunday Have a good trip!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I also don't know why he had that reaction from Epsom . I really think it was coincident, may be because the temperature change that time .It was when you heater didn't work. I really would try to do it again. If you will have a chance when you come back try Epsom bath for 30 min to 1 hrs. Epsom works as a laxative for them. You can try and if you will see he has bad reaction just take him out. Or you also can do aquarium salt bath too for his rot.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay will do thank you so much!!!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Should I mix the Epsom and aquarium salt? And I should start the Epsom salt after the general cure correct?


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Oh nvm just read that correctly hah okay. I'ok try Epsom or aquarium salt again after the general cure. So for the Epsom salt I put some in wait an hour and then change to clean water? I may use the aquarium salt instead ;^^


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You can try to do Epsom salt bath while you change his water with General cure. Just while you change him , pre mix Epsom 1tsp/gall and let him sit for an hour unless you will see he is acting strange. You can just do daily salt bath for him . 
If you will decide to do salt bath make sure you cover the container he is in so he don't jump out .


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay so on Sunday should I do a 30 minutes of Epsom salt and then change the water with General cure? Should he be in the main tank when I do the Epsom salt? Yeah I took a picture of his tail again I'll post it. I circled the areas where the rose color came back or got worse. You can see the one on his anal tail where the rose tips are a little of the black smudges.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He's chilling at the corner now.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The rose tips are exposed tissue from the rot, so he definitely has more than just random tears.  

I'm not 100% sure on the dosing because it seems like you and Anhel have something worked out and I don't want to interfere with conflicting instructions so I'll let her handle that part. 

I just wish he'd eat.  Hang in there, you're doing great with him.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks! I'm just not sure how to combat his fin rot  when i think it gets better it gets worse. I'm just paranoid about the Epsom salt because he reacted so strangely from it. He's not really moving right now, he's just kinda floating at the corner. I have a pellet in there in case he does decide to eat.
I've been using the dosing for the general cure that you suggested . I'm not sure about the Epsom salt though, I know the aquarium salt has been helping a little at least, but I stopped both and just started using the general cure.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That's probably the best choice for right now. If the epsom salt didn't work then I'm reluctant to suggest going back to the AQ salt because if he's having bloating problems, the AQ salt will just make things worse. 

The primary use of the AQ salt would be to encourage slime coat production and to help ward off bacteria from the open wounds, as well as to balance electrolyte levels. Since you're medicating, there's no need to use the salt for warding off bacteria. Using a product like API Stress Coat or Kordon Fish Protector can help replace slime coat. It's not worth the risk of using it just to help the electrolyte levels right now.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay 
I'll just stick to the general cure right now? Is there anything I should do about the fin rot getting worse?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

stress coat or Kordon Fish Protector good for the healing


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay awesome I'll go pick some up on Sunday . I can use those with the general cure too right?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

yes just don't use full dose of it since stress coat api is also a water conditioner. So use about a quarter per gallon. If you try to dingle a blood worm in front of him he still ignoring it? Just really want him to eat


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Haven't tried another blood worm yet, I'm defrosting some right now. Since my tank is so small would a couple drops be okay? He still twitches a little *sigh I'm not sure what to do  He releases a big bubble when he does a twitch. And he's still pretty bloated after the second treatment with the general cure. He kinda floats diagonally on the top, his head is higher than his butt.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

I think his bloating might have actually gotten worse T_T


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

He seems to be showing the signs of dropsy without the pineconing o_o *sigh*


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi rosewhip. After talking it over with Anhel, I think we both agreed that if you feel comfortable with the idea, you can try him in 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon along with the General Cure. 

Here is the reason why I usually DON'T advise this and the reason why I AM advising it this time.

"The reason I'm sometimes reluctant to use AQ salt in bloat cases is because salt causes fluid retention so if the kidneys aren't working, using something that makes even more fluid will just make the fish more bloated because without working kidneys it can't process the fluid. BUT, not all bloat cases are caused by kidney infections so in these cases, using AQ salt is okay. The problem is there's no way to tell if it's kidney problems or something else causing the bloating.

One possible downside of using epsom salt continuously is that it can dehydrate the betta. Its purpose is to draw fluid out so if the bloating in a betta is not caused by fluid retention, then the epsom salt will just draw out all the fluid the fish needs to survive and make it worse. Again though, there is no way of knowing if it's fluid retention causing bloating or not."


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

My roommate just called me, he just passed away 
Thank you for all your guys help!  I don't think he would have lasted as long if y'all didn't help thank you!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh rosewhip so sorry , you really did everything you could Sometimes no matter what you do it hard to save them. He appreciated your help and your love. He would never get it if you would live him in the store.
If you will decide to rescue another betta rinse the tank with 1:10 bleach solution. There are lots of different bleaches out there. You must not use bleach with additives (many come mixed with detergent). So, find a bleach like Clorox Regular.
Rinse the tank million times and let it dry out for a few days, better in the sun. Rinse it again and then it ready for another betta. I know its too soon to say it, i know you sad but it just the way i am with all fish/animals. We do the best we can to help them . Then when they in rest i just rescue another one. So hope you will do the same and let us know about new guy, if you decide to rescue one.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, rosewhip. You did try everything you could. Sometimes things are resistant to treatment.


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

Thanks guys  Yeah  its sad but I think he feels much better now  Thanks for all your help guys! I'll let y'all know if I buy another one


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope to hear about new betta!


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## rosewhip2000 (Nov 6, 2013)

hey! I haven't had a chance to go get a new little buddy yet but hopefully soon!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

aww so nice to hear from you, didn't expect that fast reply. Thank you! Let us know about new guy! Good night or guess good morning. This forum is so addicting, can't go sleep lol


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