# Merlin and Morgana



## ocenei (Dec 11, 2016)

Hi my name is Caci!

I recently bought a blue male veiltail. Two days later decided to get him a tank mate. After finding out its best to get a female I got a blue female veiltail. After taking one day to introduce them with side by side tanks they mated the next day and my male is now caring for his bubble nest! That was quick! And totally unexpected that fast! 

I will keep you all updated on how everything is going and pics soon!


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## moodynarwhal (Mar 24, 2016)

Welcome to the forum! That's so exciting! Bubble nests are so cool.
Are they living together? From your post I can't tell if you're just breeding them or actually have them living in the same tank. I'm only asking because it's extremely dangerous for both bettas if they're left in the same tank. The only time bettas can be left together is during breeding or if you have a female sorority. There is a lot of false info out there on when bettas can live together. If they are still in the same tank, I would recommend getting the female out of there.


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## ocenei (Dec 11, 2016)

Well honestly she was intended to be a tank mate but since the idiots at petco really don't know what they are talking about which was apparent the first minute I had put her in the tank, I quickly pulled her back out and have been doing hours of research since. So yes now for both of their safety its for breeding purposes. I've already been setting up different tanks for everything. A little extreme I'm sure.


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## fernielou (May 19, 2015)

Considering you didn't know any better than what an "idiot at petco" told you, why do you think you can manage the work involved in breeding betta? I have kept betta for years and bred my snails and livebearers but no way could
I undertake betta breeding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moodynarwhal (Mar 24, 2016)

That's great! I hate it when you do hours of research and then BAM! You realize it was all false. I'm so glad that they're getting separate tanks! They'll be so happy!

P.S. Did I tell you that I think they have awesome names?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Personally, I would destroy the nest if there are eggs in it. Raising bettas isn't something you can do without careful preparation, and this preparation should have taken place long before the pair spawned. 

Unless you have live foods on hand, it's likely any fry that hatch are simply going to starve to death. Unlike livebearer fry, which will readily accept powdered foods from the beginning, betta fry often fail to recognise anything that isn't moving as food. 

Furthermore, raising betta fry is at least 3-4 months of hard slog. Unlike other species of fish, they won't raise themselves. You need to have the time to do daily (or near daily) water for these 3-4 months, and you need to have space to house multiple males separately. This is because once the males start to fight, you run the risk of serious injury, or permanent damage being done to fins, if they are not kept separate. 

Finally, blue VTs are a dime a dozen. Here, they are sold in virtually every fish and pet store and I imagine it's a similar case overseas. They are not a fish where there is a huge demand from buyers, and you are likely going to find it hard to shift large numbers of these fish. Some stores won't accept fish from hobbyists, and no private buyer is going to pay much for a fish they can purchase elsewhere for a few dollars.


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## ocenei (Dec 11, 2016)

Personally I am doing this because I want my fish to not only live longer more fulfilling lives but I want them happy and healthy. It's noted males become depressed when they are unable to collect all the eggs, lose a mate, have no mate. Not to mentioned after taking poor advice from someone at a pet store that obviously knew nothing about these fish I now have a second fish that is very beautiful and I have grown attached to so now I must consider her happiness as well. I'm certainly not just going to let her get ripped apart by merlin and I'm not going to flush her. Everyone starts somewhere not to mention they are capable of doing this in the wild for the past hundred years in rice fields. I have spent close to 123 hours researching this thus far. As well as every little thing they do I research. 

Also, to moody, thank you about your opinion towards their names. I named the male merlin because one- every time you see merlin he is in blue. My fish is a gorgeous blue he is also enchanting and I love wizards and dragons and so on which is why I have a published fantasy novel. As far as my female I figured it only made sense that one being a wizard that starts with an m, and his relation to the lady of the lake I found the name morgana for my female which is known as a sea witch much like ursula so morgana for its m. This relation was also mentioned in the sorcerers apprentice. So much like my choice to mate them and the effort I am putting behind it, I did the same in their name choices. Everything I have and am doing is purely for the happiness for my male, merlin.


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## ocenei (Dec 11, 2016)

Seriously some of your opinions are just terrible. You say that I am being unreasonable but some of you suggest I should just discard my female..... Do you understand the word oxymoron?


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## ocenei (Dec 11, 2016)

Obviously I posted for constructive, supportive information to further positive results. With the exception to moody I'm getting hypocritical, non-constructive criticisms.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Where was it suggested that you should discard your female? Unless I missed it, no one who has responded to this thread, made the suggestion to get rid of your female. Besides, even if they did, you have more options than flushing her down the toilet or allowing her to be mutilated by your male. 

My advice to destroy the eggs, is based on the fact that unless you get your hands on live food cultures or BBS before those eggs hatch, it's likely a large number of your fry will perish in the following days/weeks through starvation. I speak from experience when I say losing an entire spawn is a real kick in the guts. 

If your male was not conditioned prior to spawning it may well be that he ends up eating the eggs/fry. It takes a great deal of energy to guard the nest, tend to the eggs, and then take care of the fry until they are free-swimming. Especially when you are hampered by long fins. Once the fry hatch they will often fall out of the nest and need to be recovered by the male. As bettas can produce hundreds of eggs from one spawning, this can mean numbers trips to the bottom of the tank and back to the surface. All of this requires a great deal of effort from the male, and it's why a male should be in peak physical condition before being bred. If you've only just purchased him from a pet store, it's unlikely that he is anywhere near approaching that. You're going to need to make sure that your male is kept well-nourished (if he will take food during this time - some males will refuse), as a stressed and weakened fish, is a fish that is more susceptible to illness. It's not coincidence that some breeders lose fish after they are removed from the breeding tank. 

I can't tell if you are new to fish keeping in general, but be aware that even with careful planning and hours of research and reading, the wheels can fall off the wagon very quickly in this hobby.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well congrats on your two new bettas and I love the names, I unfortunately am a little upset that you grouped all of Petco as idiots. I work at Petco and always try to do my best to tell people the best possible information I can. If I don't know something I either tell them I don't know or I try to find out the answer by someone else I know would have good advice. Yes, alot of Petco employee's don't know poo about fish, especially bettas but next time say idiot at Petco than idiots at Petco.

As for advice about the spawning, if you do decide to keep the spawn, try and get an extra tank for them (once they are free swimming away from the bubble nest). You'll want to lower the water as much as you can and buy a heating pad and sponge filter. LBF is right that you will need to do daily water changes and testing the temp and water perms constantly. Baby bettas are extremely sensitive to everything, more than live bearer babies. I do wish you all the luck in your betta journeys


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## moodynarwhal (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm sorry, I really know nothing about breeding bettas, but if I were you I'd do what the more experienced members advise. I'm sorry if I said something incorrect earlier, I was just glad that the male and female had been separated and had honestly forgotten about the nest. I think it's awesome that you want your male to be happy, but they really don't need tankmates. As I said before, I'm just a petkeeper and not very experienced, so I think I'll just step out now. I hope you're able to give your bettas a long happy life.


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## Hopefish (Feb 9, 2016)

Nobody wants you to get of your female... she just can't be with the male. She needs her own pad, so to speak.


You're lucky they mated without tearing eachother up... if you read through the spawn logs on this site, you'll find that quite often the male and/or female are badly injured during the process. Wild bettas obviously successfully breed and raise young in the wild, but your bettas aren't wild, nor do they have the resources available to them that would have in the wild. Your bettas have probably been domesticated for a hundred generations, selectively bred by breeders for certain traits that everything to do with aesthetics and nothing to do with survival skills.


It is possible, though unlikely, that some of these offspring may hatch and survive if you are very lucky and you work very hard and have the food and other resources necessary for them, so you also need to be prepared for the possibility of caring for dozens of individually jarred fish until you can rehome them... which will be another challenge.


I wish you the best of luck. You surely got thrown in the deep end right from the beginning.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

ocenei said:


> Seriously some of your opinions are just terrible. You say that I am being unreasonable but some of you suggest I should just discard my female..... Do you understand the word oxymoron?


Do you understand the word rude? Oxymoron definition- 
ˌäksəˈmôrˌän/
_noun_
noun: *oxymoron*; plural noun: *oxymorons*


a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g., _faith unfaithful kept him falsely true_ ).


No offense intended, my sass gets the best of me. Now to my helpful, nice tips. We on this site really are FOR you, not against!! :smile2:
What has been said in entirely correct. I understand that being told something won't work out is sad and disappointing. If you'll take advice, have a few helpful, positive pointers, because you've taken the right first steps. I did the same thing when I got my first betta- barely any research, listening to the pet store idiots who 'think' they know stuff... , etc.
How big are your tanks? Bettas love to live in tanks 2.5 gallons or bigger. A lot of tanks that are around their at petco/smart come with filters, lights and a hood, which is a great package, and fun to pick out!! Bettas also need heaters to keep warm as tropical fish. Contrary to what the petsmart employee thought, BETTAS LIKE TO LIVE ALONE. They do NOT get bored, nor do they get depressed when unable to breed. Males build bubble nests out of instinct and do not get frustrated when they don't have eggs to take care of. 
If you're dead set on going for the fry, you'll have to get 50+ jars to keep the fry in our it'll turn into the Hunger Games in whatever tank you have the nest in. As previously said, you'll have to devote most of three months to daily water changes, and buy LIVE FOOD or they'll starve. Basically you want to go to a real Fish Store and stay away from any advice from Petco/Smart. They'll tell you anything to get you to buy stuff, though there are a few that know their stuff. ;0)
*I don't intend to come off and a know-it-all or a naysayer, nor does anyone on this form. We really really want you to be successful and have happy, healthy fish, because this is one of the most worthwhile and interesting hobbies one can have. *
Can we have a sample of the tanks your bettas are in? I love veiltails, so I'd love to see your new fishy friends. 
Best wishes!!! Please let us know how this journey your on goes.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

ocenei said:


> Personally I am doing this because I want my fish to not only live longer more fulfilling lives but I want them happy and healthy. It's noted males become depressed when they are unable to collect all the eggs, lose a mate, have no mate. Not to mentioned after taking poor advice from someone at a pet store that obviously knew nothing about these fish I now have a second fish that is very beautiful and I have grown attached to so now I must consider her happiness as well. I'm certainly not just going to let her get ripped apart by merlin and I'm not going to flush her. Everyone starts somewhere not to mention they are capable of doing this in the wild for the past hundred years in rice fields. I have spent close to 123 hours researching this thus far. As well as every little thing they do I research.
> 
> Also, to moody, thank you about your opinion towards their names. I named the male merlin because one- every time you see merlin he is in blue. My fish is a gorgeous blue he is also enchanting and I love wizards and dragons and so on which is why I have a published fantasy novel. As far as my female I figured it only made sense that one being a wizard that starts with an m, and his relation to the lady of the lake I found the name morgana for my female which is known as a sea witch much like ursula so morgana for its m. This relation was also mentioned in the sorcerers apprentice. So much like my choice to mate them and the effort I am putting behind it, I did the same in their name choices. Everything I have and am doing is purely for the happiness for my male, merlin.


If you're researching it, you should know about the fry's immense need of care and that facts that male bettas do not need to breed to be happy and are much happier alone. If you need me to prove it I will. Breeding stressed the fish, increases chance of fin illness and damage to them. It's not for their happiness, trust me. Its survival in the wild. 
I'm SUPER GLAD you're gong to invest time+ effort in for your female. No one suggested you to get rid of her. She's a special, unique creature and she deserves her own private life in a fishy tank too. 
Also, you've spent 123 hours reading about bettas? Seriously? How long have you had them? 123 hours is about the equivalent of 6 days. are you logging hours or something, or did you just keyboard smash? 
Also, You have a published fantasy novel? What's it called? I'd love to read it. I'm a writer myself. I've written three full 150,000 word novels and am going on the fourth, not to mention mass amounts of poetry. It's always great to meet another writer and fellow fish fanatic!!


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