# betta torture



## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I FOUND ON YOU-TUBE!!!! a video that shoes wal-marts fish and they are in water so low that they only have enough water to soak their bodies in not even to swim i mean they cant move their fins or the fins will come out of water...

This is the comment that this girl made this makes me very mad 


nicksbaby87: Betas obtain their oxygen from the air not the water, they dont have to have too much watter they dont have gills like other fish, its not very important for them to have plenty of swimming room and have their environment cleaned regularly because they are so small and they dont really have to have all the expensive equipment other fish need. why would We care about fish??


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## BettaSquirt (Jun 2, 2009)

-_- this is why i hate people, like seriously they're LIVING CREATURES. I dont understand why people have to be so dumb!? grrrrrr..


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## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

I bet/hope the person who made that comment got reamed by other posters.


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## ecoprincess (Jul 16, 2009)

one word: KHARMA

:/


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

BettaSquirt said:


> -_- this is why i hate people, like seriously they're LIVING CREATURES. I dont understand why people have to be so dumb!? grrrrrr..


yea i totally agree with you..and i hope you know she was actually one of the workers in wal-mart that helped with the fish. she was fired and got pounded with lectures about taking care of bettas and other fish too. and i just had to say "she doesn't understand them so why would i waste my breath"


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

ecoprincess said:


> one word: KHARMA
> 
> :/


what do you mean by that? just wondering?:-?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

You know what karma is right?

You do a bad thing, a bad thing happens to you. 

You do a good thing, and a good thing shall happen to you.


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

report it
I believe videotaping animal cruelty is a crime or that it's about to be, just report it on youtube


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## Yangstah (May 6, 2010)

dang that sucsk y not just steal the bettas XD thats wat i would do X( poor lil fellas DX


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

This week I watched as a Petco employee was taking bettas out of the box they came in and I though it was so awful. They come in these tiny 2 or 3 oz bags that are all placed together inside another large bag and a few of those bags come in a box no larger than 20x20x12. 
Are bettas really the worst treated fish in the world? Ugh!


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## Firefly (Apr 9, 2010)

I was at my local fish shop the other day and i wanted to punch the guy that was getting my betta cause i asked him not to put him in a small bag when i brought him home, and then he points to the poor bettas in cup of like half a inch water and says look there! they can stay like that for 3 months. i was so angry!!!! my betta was in one of those little cups to until they moved him to a bigger tank to recover, he was the prettiest. My other lfs keeps their bettas in cups to although in a bit more water and clean the water regularly. and sometimes they will have a betta all alone in a 20 gallon like the other day and it was such a pretty dark crowntail i wanted him even tho i just got myn heh


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## bloo97 (Mar 6, 2010)

> him not to put him in a small bag when i brought him home, and then he points to the poor bettas in cup of like half a inch water and says look there!


If only there was a report button on them!


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## Zenandra (Nov 14, 2009)

I worked at a walmart in the fish section about 3 summers ago (I'll never go back) I almost got fired because everyday I changed the water in the betta cups, conditioned it and added a pinch of Aq salt (I probably had the healthiest walmart bettas ever, haha) They said that it was a waste of time taking care of them like that, because they didn't care if they died. Did you know walmart gets money for all their dead fish? Every day they have to Tally how many die and what kind and then at the end of the week they send the list in to somewhere and get money back for all of the fish that died. They DON'T CARE if the fish die, they're not losing any money!


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Zenandra...I didn't know that ... that's digusting! No WONDER they're all dead.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Yikes, that's awful. I'm awfully glad my Walmart only carries pet supplies and not actual fish.


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## Jennyinurmouth (Apr 6, 2010)

okay this makes it perfectly okay to do as my dream suggested and bust out of wallydeathworld with a buggyofbettas, and accumulate a place to "rescue them" shoplifting might be a crime, but animal cruelty is worse >.<


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

wal-mart people are heartless fish are just like any other animal


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## lilyrazen (Oct 25, 2009)

This is the upside of them being territorial! If they weren't, they'd be put in tiny tanks all on top of each-other, too.
My Petco keeps them in really clean cups, changed water once a week. I've never seen one dead in their store, and I found two of my three boys there, one at another Petco near by.
I also stand around in there and help people with Bettas. I tell them bigger is better and basic little things about them.
I really hope more stores open like mine.

I have found one with really bad fungus at Walmart.
It was beautiful, but he looked like he would die soon.
I told the guy, but he didn't care. 
I think we should start a petition online, or something similar.
Down with walmart fish!


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## Zenandra (Nov 14, 2009)

I agree walmarts shouldn't have fish! They don't care about them and they never even try to hire people with fish knowledge.

My deparment manager when I worked at walmart told one woman that she didn't need to cycle her tank because she didn't have well water...???

And she told another couple not to get a female betta because they were such ugly fish!


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## Nikita (Jan 30, 2010)

> I think we should start a petition online, or something similar.
> Down with walmart fish!


that sounds really good, i was thinking of taking the care guide from here and printing off a bunch of copies, taking them to the pet stores around here and replacing their care guides with ours. think it would work or do you think i would get the cops called on me?


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## Zenandra (Nov 14, 2009)

Haha you might get the cops called on you but it would be worth it! haha. I used to do that to a local walmart that took HORRIBLE care of their bettas! I printed up my own care sheet and hung it over the bettas, and also hung a letter to walmart telling them exactly what was wrong. Everyday they would take it down and every day I would go put them back up. Until finally I got to talk to the manager (I wanted them to approach me, that way I knew they were actually interested, pissed maybe, but still interested) I explained what was wrong, asked her how she expected to sell fish when they were all sick or dead and why they're care sheets had such false information. She was actually very nice, She took one of my care sheets talked to the big corporate guys got permission to put up a new "Walmart approved" care sheet with correct information. They have cut down on the number of bettas they order, and it's been 3 years now, the care sheets still there and everytime I go in the bettas are always in clean water, and none are ever sick or dead. One person can make a difference! You just have to try!


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## ecoprincess (Jul 16, 2009)

Zenandra said:


> Haha you might get the cops called on you but it would be worth it! haha. I used to do that to a local walmart that took HORRIBLE care of their bettas! I printed up my own care sheet and hung it over the bettas, and also hung a letter to walmart telling them exactly what was wrong. Everyday they would take it down and every day I would go put them back up. Until finally I got to talk to the manager (I wanted them to approach me, that way I knew they were actually interested, pissed maybe, but still interested) I explained what was wrong, asked her how she expected to sell fish when they were all sick or dead and why they're care sheets had such false information. She was actually very nice, She took one of my care sheets talked to the big corporate guys got permission to put up a new "Walmart approved" care sheet with correct information. They have cut down on the number of bettas they order, and it's been 3 years now, the care sheets still there and everytime I go in the bettas are always in clean water, and none are ever sick or dead. One person can make a difference! You just have to try!



Such an inspiring story!! Its great!


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## Nikita (Jan 30, 2010)

hmm maybe i will do it then ^-^ yay hope!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

lilyrazen said:


> I think we should start a petition online, or something similar.
> Down with walmart fish!


i know how you feel about this and im totally with you on this but i want some of the fish in wal-mart only because thats the only place where i can get any fish at all.... i think that they should just have rules for the fish and have an inspector come over once every two weeks or so. you know what i mean because wal-mart fish have no rules at all but that you have to feed them. thats it but its terrible what they do to those poor fishies


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

Actually, I work in marketing and one advantage fro small pet stores or local pet stores that are not large chains is that by treating their bettas better they could advertise that as a way to get customers from the big chains like Walmart and Petco.
If they only realized this.
Also I have joined another betta forum and they have a whole thread on betta advocacy.
I'm not sure it is okay to name another forum on here but you could google betta advocacy and find it.
Basically, buying bettas supports the cycle of cruelty though I think. Well, do any breeders have thought on this?
Also, my friend used to work at a "pet store" and all the animals for sale go through similar abuse, for example hampsters, don't even get me started on the hampster hospital...

If you are interested in any of these thoughts I encourage you to do more research on how you can help end animal cruelty, it's all around us from the personal care products we use to the cleaning products we buy to even the petfood we feed our pets.


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## Nikita (Jan 30, 2010)

O-O what about pet food?!! i have a kitty and i love him i don't wanna hurt him or others!!!


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

Oh boy, there's a lot of info on that but basically in order to be AAFCO certified testing is done on animals by petfood companies. Additionally, specific claims such as special diets for weight loss, or medical issues have to be tested on animals in a laboratory to substantiate claims. This means vivisection. Most commercial petfood companies test on animals (quietly). Brands like Purina, IAMS, Eukanuba etc etc. There is a website called Iamscruelty.org , and it is very graphic so view with caution. I feed my cats Wellness brand and also grain-free as cats (and dogs) can't digest vegetables (corn is often the number one ingredient in petfood because it is cheap). The use of these fillers has been shown to cause disease in cats such as urinary crystals and thyroid issues.
You can google all these things, I hope they don't ban me for posting this.


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

Of course I just found this link about Wellness 
http://www.livingcrueltyfree.com/2009/02/04/dear-emily-wellness-petfood-crueltyfree/
arg!


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## Nikita (Jan 30, 2010)

hmmm, is there cruelty free betta food?


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

i started wondering that myself


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## Mister Sparkle (Apr 13, 2010)

:lol: Creulty-free pet-food for CARNIVORES???????

You're kidding, right?


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

No, because the petfood companies perform medical experiments on cats and dogs to validate their marketing claims.


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

*karma*

karma is not so simple as "do good things, good things happen", karma is this big energy thingy (this is only get more stupider) and basically it detrmines what you will be reincarnated as, the total sum of all the good deeds you do is weighed against the sum of all the bad things you do and depending on how it checks out you may be reincarnated as a slug or a tiger or another human, there is no "in life" equalizer, the more bad you do doesn't equal to a bad life for you, it just means that when you die you will come back as a tapeworm or something equally horrible.

just had to toss this in here, lol, also it is possible to have meat-based pet food that is cruelty free, the animal could die of old age or be calmly euthanized via-injection or totally instantaneous brain destruction (smoosh it faster than it can send out an electrical signal. these are costly and the food produced would need more expensive than the cost to produce, we the consumers determine what food is produced and how it is produced by our purchasing choices, you have to spend more if you want things to be better (and lets face it, who would want to pay 30$ for a bag of fish food or 100$ for a 1lb of meat?).

all in all, if you've ever purchased a fish or a non-humane brand of dog food you have just said that it is okay to kill and harm things as long it is cheaply done, all you walmart buyers are directly causing animal cruelty and/or betta abuse.


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## bloo97 (Mar 6, 2010)

> One person can make a difference! You just have to try!


You know I read on a tee Shirt today and it said,
"One small group of people can make a huge difference and in this society it is the only thing that does."


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

a little love goes a long way!


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Shmifty. I don't even know how to respond to that (last paragraph) except...no. We're not. 

I don't even know the difference between an inhumane brand and a ... humane brand.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Shmifty. I don't even know how to respond to that (last paragraph) except...no. We're not.
> 
> I don't even know the difference between an inhumane brand and a ... humane brand.


im with you on that xxabc what is that??XD


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Shmifty. I don't even know how to respond to that (last paragraph) except...no. We're not.
> 
> I don't even know the difference between an inhumane brand and a ... humane brand.


actually you are, if you have contributed to an organization that is known for cruel or inhumane actions to animals (whether directely or indirect) you have yourself willingly sponsored cruelty, it is an ugly truth but it is the truth.

the difference between the 2 is as simple as "did they or did they not harm animal without the harm being minimized to the utmost", like did they get the meat from slaughter houses that kill animals in a way that is either painful or incomplete (stunning a cow so that it is paralyzed but not dead when it is being skinned/processed). the main way to differentiate the brands is to do research on their practices and suppliers.

i will admit that im a hypocrite, i have bought stuff at wal-mart, i have eaten at mcdonalds, i buy leather items from time to time, but i still know that i what i have done is wrong and it fuels the machines that keep the wrong coming, it doesn't mean im not aware of my actions it just means that i knowingly ignore, most people do, it isn't bad nor is it wrong.


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

shmifty5 said:


> if you've ever purchased a fish


whoopsie, i meant "if you've ever purchased a fish FROM A WAL-MART", if you buy your fish from a good clean reliable source then you aren't contributing to any cruelty (unless the fish are wild caught, in which case it is probably still buying into cruelty as the majority of WC animals are mistreated).


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## Heat (May 8, 2010)

> nicksbaby87: Betas obtain their oxygen from the air not the water, they dont have to have too much watter they dont have gills like other fish, its not very important for them to have plenty of swimming room and have their environment cleaned regularly because they are so small and they dont really have to have all the expensive equipment other fish need. why would We care about fish??


That idiot obviously has no idea how to take care of a fish!! If bettas had lungs instead of gills, then they would probably be adapted to walking, with legs and stuff. My dad once said fish were low-mantinence- yea right!


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## Heat (May 8, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Shmifty. I don't even know how to respond to that (last paragraph) except...no. We're not.
> 
> I don't even know the difference between an inhumane brand and a ... humane brand.


 
Inhumane brands, such as Iams, have been tested on animals. THAT'S MY ABSOLUTE WORST PET PEEVE! My cat ran away, and if a scientests picked that poor kitty up, I'd kill that [insert bad word here] Talk about karma xDD


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## Titus Flame (May 15, 2010)

Petco is also bad. I rescued a betta from there. Walmart's betta cups are half full and black most of the time. (water is black)


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

shmifty5 said:


> the difference between the 2 is as simple as "did they or did they not harm animal without the harm being minimized to the utmost", like did they get the meat from slaughter houses that kill animals in a way that is either painful or incomplete (stunning a cow so that it is paralyzed but not dead when it is being skinned/processed). the main way to differentiate the brands is to do research on their practices and suppliers.
> 
> i will admit that im a hypocrite, i have bought stuff at wal-mart, i have eaten at mcdonalds, i buy leather items from time to time, but i still know that i what i have done is wrong and it fuels the machines that keep the wrong coming, it doesn't mean im not aware of my actions it just means that i knowingly ignore, most people do, it isn't bad nor is it wrong.


 
The problem with researching on their practices is that I tend to be very skeptical when it comes to accusing brands of animal cruelty. Really, the way some people put it, EVERYONE does animal cruelty save for this person and that person and maybe that person over there. I get it that you have something against animal cruelty (but then, who doesn't?) but dear, people just kill animals for how useful they can be. Of course torture is one thing, but killing is another. If I shot a cow, would that be inhumane or humane? What if I killed it in one shot? Isn't this easier than injecting him with something? Depends on your view. 

I'm not indifferent when it comes to this, I promise you, but I really kind of ticks me over when people brand others and label them... like in your earlier post "all *you* walmart shoppers..." (I'm going this from memory, too lazy to go back and re-quote  ) You said yourself you shop at Walmart. So, that includes you. Please don't round up us people who shop from Walmart and accuse us of animal cruelty, especially when we don't even mean it...again, money problems. And Especially when you do it yourself, the least you can do is include yourself. Like "Every walmart shopper .... including myself" 

I have a thing against hypocrisy (mainly because of all this unnecessary DRAMA at school I'm surrounded in, so I've grown used to disliking it). But I'm not going to hate you, especially since we just practically met. So if you're going to spread the word on animal-cruelty, you need to have a good start. Buying from Walmart and McDonalds and telling others they support animal cruelty is not a very good image at all. 

Sorry if I don't make sense, I literally woke up not even 10 minutes ago. 

And also, I don't to start any kind of argument, it's just there are some things that kind of... got to me. Handshake?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Also, for pet stores, there's a difference between cruelty and mis-treating them. Unless your connotation of cruelty is different than mine. For me, cruelty is deliberate. You do it on purpose. A betta in dirty, dirty, dirty cup water is not deliberately cruel (unless they actually INTEND to leave it there rather than being lazy), but rather completely stupid and makes me upset at the ignorant employees who don't take care of them justly. Cruelty would be the employees putting them together. 

And Heat - Language please! o __ o There are some younger people here...


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## Heat (May 8, 2010)

xxabc said:


> The problem with researching on their practices is that I tend to be very skeptical when it comes to accusing brands of animal cruelty. Really, the way some people put it, EVERYONE does animal cruelty save for this person and that person and maybe that person over there. I get it that you have something against animal cruelty (but then, who doesn't?) but dear, people just kill animals for how useful they can be. Of course torture is one thing, but killing is another. If I shot a cow, would that be inhumane or humane? What if I killed it in one shot? Isn't this easier than injecting him with something? Depends on your view.
> 
> I'm not indifferent when it comes to this, I promise you, but I really kind of ticks me over when people brand others and label them... like in your earlier post "all *you* walmart shoppers..." (I'm going this from memory, too lazy to go back and re-quote  ) You said yourself you shop at Walmart. So, that includes you. Please don't round up us people who shop from Walmart and accuse us of animal cruelty, especially when we don't even mean it...again, money problems. And Especially when you do it yourself, the least you can do is include yourself. Like "Every walmart shopper .... including myself"
> 
> ...


I don't by animal-tested products  I don't like hypocrites and its scary to be one myself. I have a website about saving annimals in fact, and we sell bracelets and stuff and donate the money the ASPCA.


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## Heat (May 8, 2010)

xxabc said:


> And Heat - Language please! o __ o There are some younger people here...


Lol I'm only 11 ^^' (I picked up language from school, sorry! ^^') But I'll stop if you want xDD


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Heat said:


> That idiot obviously has no idea how to take care of a fish!! If bettas had lungs instead of gills, then they would probably be adapted to walking, with legs and stuff. My dad once said fish were low-mantinence- yea right!


umm not to be rude but i think you should calm down okay. that sort of language will get you banned..i was just as mad as you but i didnt use those words and i think if Administrator sees that then you might be banned


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Lol, Heat, even if you're 11 and saying that doesn't always mean others will be okay with it. But hopefully an administrator will get on that and censor it out... man, I'm 15 and I don't cuss like that. Haha. Or not often.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Lol, Heat, even if you're 11 and saying that doesn't always mean others will be okay with it. But hopefully an administrator will get on that and censor it out... man, I'm 15 and I don't cuss like that. Haha. Or not often.


 lol, yea i agree with xxabc you should just delete it or edit it and take out the bad words okay. im 14 and i wouldn't curse like that on a friendly website. they will ban you they have low tolerance for bad language


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

i actually already said i was a hypocrite, lol, i don't consider it all that bad of a thing, but it still stands that if someone pays an organization or business that has shown cruelty to animals (fish count) they support it, im not saying that these people buy from wal-mart because it treats its animals like crap, what im saying is that they just helped wal-mart buy more animals and pay more ignorant, incompetent, lazy employees (not counting the good employees that actually care, love those guys/gals).

i just consider all mistreatement as cruelty, if a kid kills his puppy by dropping it off his roof is it simply mistreatement because he didn't know his puppy couldn't fly like the one on tv? nope, it is cruelty to me.

and the gun question, as long as the brain/brain stem was destroyed it would be fine with me, if the shot simply severed the spine and the cow was still alive while being processed then it would be cruelty, don't care how they kill the animal as long as the animal is killed instantly or painlessly, that's all.

i don't want to be hated!  darn me and my truth-talking, opinionated ways!

i see your handshake and raise you a *hug*


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't know Shmifty, I still don't agree...especially not the way you're saying it. Walmart makes money for money. Walmart has employees because that is how a business runs. They're not directly (this is the way you're wording it) paying employees to be cruel to anything. That is the employee's choice if they so happen to get the job. 

When Walmart receives money, they receive money to keep their own business going. To pay for more stocks, shipments, employees, things people want to buy. You receive money. And you use it. 

I don't believe Walmart deliberately tortures or cruelly kills animals (aside from those horrid dead fish they keep killing). They buy from other manufacturers that may do that. Like say I bought some eggs from XX Farm. But it's not Walmart's farm. Walmart bought it from XX Farm. XX Farm is doing the killing, we're just buying it from Walmart. But what if Target bought from XX Farm (saying that XX Farm is cruel)? Unless you consider buying from Target supporting cruelty as well...? 

So in another case, if I bought a table, I'm not supporting dead chicks. Unless you twist my words and say that I'm still giving them my money... which although I technically am, I'm not buying from XX Farm meaning I'm not supporting "I like eggs from XX Farm. Walmart, go buy some more!" 

I have no idea how to play poker. For my life...if that even IS poker. 

And yes dear...your _opinionated_ ways. So, in my opinion I'm not supporting cruelty, or at least not deliberately. I'm just not appreciative of how if I buy from Walmart, I instantly support animal cruelty all of a sudden. Sorry if I buy from the wrong brand? I don't know.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

xxabc said:


> I don't know Shmifty, I still don't agree...especially not the way you're saying it. Walmart makes money for money. Walmart has employees because that is how a business runs. They're not directly (this is the way you're wording it) paying employees to be cruel to anything. That is the employee's choice if they so happen to get the job.
> 
> When Walmart receives money, they receive money to keep their own business going. To pay for more stocks, shipments, employees, things people want to buy. You receive money. And you use it.
> 
> ...



hey xxabc what kind of fish or whatever that is in your avatar...what is that creature in your avatar??


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

well you are buying from wal-mart, which is clearly not paying for the right employees for the right section, which does seem to cause the horrendous way they keep their animals, and i've come accross more than 1 thread were someone buys a betta inorder to save it from wal-mart which is directly saying to wal-mart that bettas sell which means bettas get them money, it doesn't matter how many fish die on wal-marts hands as long as they make money, the money you put into wal-mart goes to buying their stocks so they can sell them to you the consumer, whether it be fish or tables, monthly gain is monthly gain.

now about that farm thing, if the farm was cruelly treating their animals then yes, buying from a store that buys from them is supporting creulty, not directly no, but it is still giving the organization money to buy from that cruel farm, irregardless to what you did buy, however if you have never bought anything from the stores fish section or more specifically if you only care about betta cruelty, if you never bought a betta from a store that treats them cruelly then you will have never directly bought into curelty you will just have supported an organization that does cruel things.

for the most part it is almost impossible to not support cruelty in one way or the other, buying from a store that treats animals badly or buys from a place that treats animals badly will have helped keep creulty alive, you may not like it all you want it is still a fact, if you buy meat products that come from a place that badly treats its stock you will have bought cruelty, if you buy a table from a store that sells mistreated animals you will have just helped them keep doing it, if they sell products like iams or canned tuna then they sell cruelty.

cruelty is a broad black spot on humanity, whether you cause it or buy something that caused it you have just caused it yourself, you don't have to want to buy into cruelty to actually sponsor cruelty.

heck, most grain fields will kill thousands of bugs and rodents in a far less than desireable way, and then sell of that grain to be made into flour, which is then baked into bread by dempsters or your local bakery where someone will buy the bread which pays all the people that brought you that bread, including the farmer that poisoned and killed millions of critters, now most people don't consider insects an animal but they are, we just don't care about them because there are so many and they are not very cute (given the odd scorpion is just down right adorable).

animal cruelty is massive, it makes money, and almost everyone has done it (unless you are too young to do anything).

also, to bettalover2033, that critter is an axolotl, most likely captive bread ad the wild specimens are now endangered, very fascinating creatures for their remarkable healing abilities.


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

yet you can choose to educate yourself and stop some of it. I am confident that due to education vivisection will become outdated in my lifetime.
It cheers me to read all your thoughts on this thread!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

shmifty5 said:


> well you are buying from wal-mart, which is clearly not paying for the right employees for the right section, which does seem to cause the horrendous way they keep their animals, and i've come accross more than 1 thread were someone buys a betta inorder to save it from wal-mart which is directly saying to wal-mart that bettas sell which means bettas get them money, it doesn't matter how many fish die on wal-marts hands as long as they make money, the money you put into wal-mart goes to buying their stocks so they can sell them to you the consumer, whether it be fish or tables, monthly gain is monthly gain.
> 
> now about that farm thing, if the farm was cruelly treating their animals then yes, buying from a store that buys from them is supporting creulty, not directly no, but it is still giving the organization money to buy from that cruel farm, irregardless to what you did buy, however if you have never bought anything from the stores fish section or more specifically if you only care about betta cruelty, if you never bought a betta from a store that treats them cruelly then you will have never directly bought into curelty you will just have supported an organization that does cruel things.
> 
> ...




thank you for telling me about that creature and also i want to say that i dont buy bettas from wal-mart. i buy them from my more local fish store. its called the fish bowl...this store has not the best bettas but some of them that i really like. it is the smallest little pet store ever lol...anyway about the farmer thing i really dont care for rats or mice heck i think we would be better with out them i dont even like pet rats....i like hamsters and guinea pigs but thats about it.i think that rats and mice just cause trouble.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Schmifty, also consider the people who need a job. Whether they're the right type of employees for the right section or not, some people simiply need jobs and Walmart can actually supply that. The needs for a job outweighs the proper people for that job. If they can do something and learn a bit, then voila. Just sayin'. And I'm not arguing about Walmart and their bettas. I completely agree. And whats what I meant (sorry if it was unclear) - monthly gain is monthly gain. 

But what if you consider Walmart buying from farms that aren't cruel? Buying from Walmart all feeds into the same thing. If you insist that I'm supporting cruelty, then simulatenously I'm not. We both know that not 100% of the farms that kill animals are cruel. And being a vast superstore that Walmart is, chances are it would at least buy from farms that are un-cruel as well. 

Well I'm just going to have to life with support cruel animal killings aren't I? Lovely thought. But I should be able to sleep knowng I'm supporting non-cruel farms, tables, random linen, lots of various fruits, lots of various vegetables, rice farms, tissues, paper towels, etc... 

Let's not forget the people who are actually doing something to stop it as well, but we both know that. But hopefully you aren't going to tell them they're still supporting animal cruelty because they buy their food from x store? I don't know about you but I don't know where I can buy something that is absolute zero percent cruel in the way you mention. Obviously they can't buy from Walmart even if they buy the purest brand out there, in the way you put it.

Quite frankly, money > lots of things. Like humanely killing bugs ... how much would that cost? Well all I know is that poisons for killing those "pesty rodents and bugs" are pretty cheap and many are made just for not harming different vegetations. Yes, the way they die by poison is pretty terrible ... but sadly, it's cheap. Even the bugs I do have a liking towards die that way. Nobody wants to lose their money into humanely killing bugs because ... why would we care about them? It's sad, isn't it? 

Really, you aren't paying for the cruelty. It's not direct like that. You're paying for the (let's say) meat, which may be received through cruelty. But hey, us humans just got meat to eat. Animal cruelty itself is not a funding. It's only an aspect of things. Dog fighting is cruel, but they don't do it because it's cruel. They do it for the fight. The way a majority of chickens are raised and caged are cruel. But they don't do it for the cruelty, they do it because it's simpler...

Yup, it's an axolotl. And I want one... It's pretty sad how it's endangered wildly, but still fairly abundant in captivity. I've never quite wrapped that around my mind...


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

bettalover2033 said:


> i know how you feel about this and im totally with you on this but i want some of the fish in wal-mart only because thats the only place where i can get any fish at all.... i think that they should just have rules for the fish and have an inspector come over once every two weeks or so. you know what i mean because wal-mart fish have no rules at all but that you have to feed them. thats it but its terrible what they do to those poor fishies





bettalover2033 said:


> thank you for telling me about that creature and also i want to say that i dont buy bettas from wal-mart. i buy them from my more local fish store. its called the fish bowl...this store has not the best bettas but some of them that i really like. it is the smallest little pet store ever lol...anyway about the farmer thing i really dont care for rats or mice heck i think we would be better with out them i dont even like pet rats....i like hamsters and guinea pigs but thats about it.i think that rats and mice just cause trouble.


 I thought you said in an earlier post that wal mart is the only place you can get fish?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

beat2020 said:


> I thought you said in an earlier post that wal mart is the only place you can get fish?


i did but they did a grand opening on thursday..and im there like everyday lol also i mean to say that i dont get my bettas from wal-mart (anymore) because wal-mart is wayyy to far from where i live


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

exactly, a job is a job, but i know for a fact that a lot of jobs have some form of training involved, for example, if i wanted to work at my local salt plant i would need to be trained so that im familiar with the basics of what teh job entails and how to properly look after the machinery, the same could easily applied to a wal-mart then *BAM* wal-mart has kicked up it's fish care a notch, better care for all the fish and a slightly larger paycheck for the employee (as they would now be trained for the job).

the only problem with proper job training is that it costs wal-mart money, money which they will have to charge for which will raise prices for us the consumer, but if wal-mart raised it prices it wouldn't be popular anymore and they would lose business. we the consumers have direct control on the quality we endorse, if the majority of people were willing to pay more money for our goods then wal-mart would raise the quality of what it sells, if we stopped shopping at wal-mart and instead shopped at a store that ensured it had not paid for cruelty at any stage of any products developement (ie a humane store) wal-mart would drop the far less popular foods that do use cruelty and then those business' would inturn find humane ways to make their products so that they can make money again and so that wal-mart woould sell them again, cruelty could easily be completely abolished with only a world-wide movement of select shopping, it would be just that easy (sarcasm heavy on the "just that easy").

it doesn't matter if they do what they do for the cruelty, it is still cruel and irregardless to how some may define cruelty it all still adds up to any animal wrongly suffering, a cow up for slaughter isn't in a cruel situation as long as it is killed with minimal suffering (one blow, 1 kill), chickens can be raised without being boxed into tiny cages, the only meat that doesn't have cruelty free alternative is veal, which as we all know is made when a calf is chained in a single location so that it can't move and develope muscle mass (the entire process is painful and unatural for the child).

it really bothers me that you are unwilling to admit that you have had any role in animal cruelty, any animal that must worngly suffer for your convenience is still suffering, whether you intend it to or not, buying from wal-mart or any other store with similiar practices is not justified simply because they sell a tiny amount of cruelty-free products, and your attitude towards insects is a little off putting if i might say so myself, bugs are just as capable of feeling pain and suffering as any fish or lizard or human, how would you feel if i poisoned you? probably not very good.

the fact of the matter is is that all forms of life survive by killing, even vegetarians are responsible for killing hundred if not thousands of animals, heck the city or home you live in has killed a good couple thousand life forms, it is sad but it is the truth, only through accepting these bleak and ugly truths can we ever hope to make it better.

the axolotl is endangered because its natural habitat is being paved over and drained for urban growth in mexico, not much is actually being done actively to save their natural homelands but there are some people who do care enough to help the poor little guys out, also the native population cannot be helped by the captive bred specimens for the simple risk of transporting bacteria and fungus', the chytrid fungus is well known for ravashing amphibian species, the dwindling amount of natural axies would be wiped out if chytrid fungus was released into their numbers, it's a sad story actually. and now that i think about it it does do a good job of displaying animal cruelty in its finest (imagine a water way drained of water with a good number of axies flopping around desperate for air, completely unable to comprehend that the water has just vanished and that the sun is drieing out their soft organs and skin, horrible aint it?).


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Woah. Woah. 
When did I ever say I wasn't contributing to animal cruelty? I never said that. If I did, it was unintended.

Something that bothered me was how you attacked Walmart. Now, Walmart is not my idol, nor would I ever want to work there, nor do I appreciate everything 100%, but I can't stand it when someone just goes and attacks something. Most of the time anyway. What about Target? What bout Walgreens? What about CVS? What about _____? WHat about H-E-B? What about Petco and Petsmart? I don't see why Walmart has to be the center of blame here. Every big-business has their flaws, but still. If you're going to attack something, let's be a little broader and considerate and not so narrow-minded (and I don't say that in a negative/offensive way at all). 

Schmifty, job training doesn't cost much money, if any at all (a boss goes and teaches someone stuff? I would imagine that would just be included in their salary). Job training is a basic necessity for any thriving business and without it ... then what? Job training is a given. You can't run a successful business without it. But what my point was (trying to be) is that when someone _needs_ a job out of desperation, forget doing the best you can 100% all throughout your job (ex: I LOVE THESE FISHjustkiddingineedmoney), just make sure you don't get fired and everything will be "all right." Now if they happened to like fish, well what a coincidence! 

As I'd really like the idea of dropping cruel products, not everyone does their research like you want to. It's not a matter of "dropping this because it's cruel and no one buys it", it's a matter of "this food doesn't taste good/isn't popular so we'll take it off. oh, it's cruel? Okay then." 

Is there truely a humane store? If you know any, come lay them out. If it's a humane _product_, there's also chances it's right next to an inhumane one of the same store, right? From what I've seen, It'd not about a humane store...it's more about "come spend your money here, we have x, y, and z that you love (and z may just so happen to be cruel but hey. it makes money)." Business doesn't run on cruelty - it runs on popularity. If a cruel farm made REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good fried chicken, well the majority of the people who just like the chicken outweight the people who really care about the animals. Can't help it... yet. But, I HAVE seen some farms that are getting shut down because of the way they're treated, and that's extremely enlightening. One step at a time, eh? 

My example about bugs didn't mean I don't like them. I never said that, I was giving examples. In this world, who wants to spend x amount of money for humanely killing bugs? _Especially_ if you work on some sort of farm and especially if you're wasting your own money? I have family over in Vietnam who kill animals to feed themselves, so you can imagine their indifference in spoiling them as pets. (But please don't say anything too negative, they're quite poor). (My point here is not how they kill them, but their indifference they see in animals) The same goes for bugs as well. "Darn these bugs, they're on my crops *poison* Gotcha. Now off to continue la la la~". While it may be off-putting, well...it's true. And it's a fact (or near so), isn't it? As sad as it is, not everyone appreciates those little critters. 

Let's remember this isn't an argument - it's just a plain old discussion.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

In response to the first few sentences I post - Ignore the original post I made in response to your first post. "No, we're not." I was kinda p/oed the way you rounded all wal-mart shoppers (and didn't include yourself) and shot us with "directly causing animal-cruelty."


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

i wasn't using wal-mart as if it was a personal thing, it was just the easiest example, a good example of a humane store is a simple crafts store or even a notery supply store, some may argue that paper products contribute to animal cruelty by cutting down trees that they need to live but i've been to a tree farm and i got to say it's a good alternative to wild cut trees.

the only issue with someone that gets a job at wal-mart for only money is as simple as initiative, who are these lazy, no good, scumbags that waste the companies time and money? why is it so hard for them to do their job? i sincerely doubt that they would lose jobs if for doing it right (seemingly wasteing time on caring for the fish isn't a viable reason for them being fired, if they were fired for proper care of the animals they could take wal-mart to court, unlikely but it is still an option), and on top of all of that, why should i support such people? they waste there days "working" at wal-mart without the slightest moral issues on proper care for the animals or their department (it always seems that the only people who care about their jobs are the pharmacists).

me, personally, i just can't stand people who waste their gifts, i know that not everyone has the chance at a good education or a good career, but is it still so unreasonable for these people to show some "want" from life? i had a rough childhood and yet im still trying to give myself a better tommorrow by learning, surely you can understand why i hate/despise these lazy employees, especially the ones who are privelegded enough to have gotten born with a silver spoon.

that aside however, my main beef about this entire thing is people, people who NEED to save money, people who NEED this and that, people who NEED to make money, is the wolrd so dark as to move with nothing but imaginary value? think about it, money is fake, it is sheets of paper given a trivial value all because somebody wants something for something, wouldn't it be lovely if we all did stuff because it is what makes us happy? if schooling was based on what you wanted to learn without any money involved we would have doctors and lawyers and mechanics and race car drivers and palaeontologist/biologists/whale biologists/indianna jones', and on top of all of that, we would no longer have money as a restrictive chain, we could safely euthanize stock/pest animals and we wouldn't see bettas dieing in the callous care of lazy employees. maybe im just stupid, but i think the world could be a better place if we just weren't here anymore.

sorry if i sounded (i unno?) arguementative, i really wasn't trying to be, it's just that animal cruelty has always bothered me since i was a child, this really [email protected] neighbor of ours had a cute little puppy but he was always mean to it and would kick it when he was drunk and throw things at it, i was too young back then to call the aspsca or a animal shelter and none of the adults cared about it, then one day the dog was found dead (by me) as it had been clearly beaten to death, the cops were called and the guy got a fine of like 50$, it still makes me sick to think about it, maybe if everyone else had experienced that kind of thing then maybe everyone would realize that all life is valuable (not as a comodity) and that we are nothing but beasts with the capabilities to create an eden.

im starting to get off-topic, basically animal cruelty is bad, mmmkay? it isn't a good thing to do, mmkay? ignorance is not a justified reason in law and it shouldn't be in real life, mmkay? you boys understand? that's good.


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

xxabc said:


> (and didn't include yourself)


i would just like to point out for future reference, that i did, in fact, include myself.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Later on you did, however in the initial post you didn't. So that kindof got to me when you said you did in fact shop at Walmart after pointing a finger. But we've moved on from this so no need to linger on a past subject, right?

It's alright if you use Walmart as an example, but I simply see it more fair if you also include other stores on the subject. Walmart gets enough beef as it is when it's really not _entirely_ that terrible. The way they treat their employees is pretty harsh though (main reason I wouldn't want to work there). Meh, I'm just appreciative of their prices. Still can't argue with that, hahah. 

As for the "no good...etc" all I can see is ... desperation. In your later paragraph you mentioned having animal cruelty always bothering you since early on, well for me it was poverty. I was surrounded by poverty so when someone needs a job, all I can see is "they need money to feed themselves and their family." It doesn't bother me if they're lazy, incompetent (if they really were, they'd just be fired spot on. While not all employees are the best, even Walmart has a limit) or anything else if they're very poor. I'm more concerned if they can feed themselves rather than wasting Walmart's time. But if it's some teen that's doing just fine, then pfft, if they're doing poorly then off with them. It's not like Walmart's in any trouble. But as for mistreating the fish I get where you stand. They seriously could just treat their fish better. Not too much to say on that. Plus, to be a pharmacist takes a lot of work since you have to go to a pharm school, so it'd be a huge waste if they didn't care for their job, so yeah. Glad they do care, haha even in Walmart. 

I couldn't agree more with the 4th paragraph. But I'm gonna stop there, because I could rant aaaaaaaaall day about it. Except perhaps I would change your last sentence to "world could be a better place with monetary values." However I shudder at the thought of what other kind of corruption there would be instead. And I don't know about you, but living is ... nice. Hahahah. I'll seriously blow my mind thinking about just not being here ever. 

Hey, i getcha. I saw my cousin's cats get thrown off a roof by some ... people I don't even know. Disgusting... My friend actually rescued a stray dog off the street...he's alive today, but when he was found he had blood/knife scars, blunt scars, he was starving...it was digusting thinking about what happened with him. I'm so happy for her that she took him in (he's doing absolutely wonderful now, except he's uncomfortable with meeting new people). But it's digusting, the way people treat others like that. Just _why?_ 

Ha, you don't have to tell me animal cruelty is bad. And ignorance isn't justified in real life anyway (not for me anyways). Also, when I was saying how this was just a discussion, it was just for future reference in case something goes crazy. (And I'm a girl  )


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

you're a girl? , lol, ya, i totally agree with you, i could have used other stores, like pet supermarket (don't know if they are still around but the one in edmonton was just awful), or any store that caries both animals and any kind of food and some medicines, ya know now that i think about it almost all stores could've been used, whether it be wal-mart or ikea, A to Z basically.

indeed, im not too big a fan of life though, im not suicidal or anything like that it's just that i sometimes don't see any good reason to keep living, it's a hard world out there with little comfort for the intellectual or down-trodden, meh, i just keep going because i think death would get boring pretty quickly. lol.

it's wonderful that your friend took that poor pooch in, i couldn't imagine if something were to happen to my adorable little oreo (she is definately fat, very fat and lazy, lol), i couldn't imagine what these people are thinking about when they harm their pets, especially dogs (im biased, i still don't think it's okay to hurt cats tho), i look at oreo and i see love and affection, what do these creeps see i wonder? also if anybody were to harm my little girl i would kill them, 50$-100$ fines would not cut it for me, they would definately pay, just sayin.

indubitably, this guy i used to know went for a trip over to europe and got put in jail in for like 5 yrs, im not sure what he did but from what i've heard it involved a banana, some pot, and a hooker who wasn't a hooker, crazy stuff out there these days.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Woah. Woah.
> When did I ever say I wasn't contributing to animal cruelty? I never said that. If I did, it was unintended.
> 
> Something that bothered me was how you attacked Walmart. Now, Walmart is not my idol, nor would I ever want to work there, nor do I appreciate everything 100%, but I can't stand it when someone just goes and attacks something. Most of the time anyway. What about Target? What bout Walgreens? What about CVS? What about _____? WHat about H-E-B? What about Petco and Petsmart? I don't see why Walmart has to be the center of blame here. Every big-business has their flaws, but still. If you're going to attack something, let's be a little broader and considerate and not so narrow-minded (and I don't say that in a negative/offensive way at all).
> ...


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## shmifty5 (May 12, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> point or story .....


lol, i like that, im gonna use that in my next class debate.

"you have a very good point...*snicker*...or STORY!!! *BAM* i win.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Hmm, I could sell that piece of advice, no joke. LOL. 

"Tips: 0.99

1 in stock"


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

okay i cannot read anymore about this cruelty discussion because you lose me sometimes with the words that you use lol


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## EverythingNice55 (Jul 26, 2011)

WHAAAT!? That's so cruel! Some people can be so idiotic! I hate people most of the time. Good thing I'm not very social.... GRRRR! Poor bettas...... I agree that you should report it!!!


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## Bresn (Sep 1, 2011)

What's the link to that youtube video?


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

It's against the rules to post videos depicting cruelty.
Besides, Old thread is old.


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## Bresn (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm not posting it I want to see it.


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## PiscisAmor (Jul 1, 2011)

i was at LPS today and saw a woman buying a bowl for a goldfish. I quickly corrected this. But I was talking to an employee (who was cleaning the betta cups  my LPS ROCKS!) and she said people had been doing that all day because a fair was giving goldfish away as prizes. EWWW!!! They are living creatures! I know goldfish aren't nearly as awesome as bettas (I'm biased) but they still deserve better than carnival prizes! How many people are gonna go home and put their goldfish in a gross bowl with no gravel, filter, heater, anything??? I only got to help one!


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## Bresn (Sep 1, 2011)

One time I win like 5-10,I feed them all,then next day."WHY!!!!"All fish die but smallest goldfish.Few days later it die too.All this was before I have bettas(Maybe).


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## kmargold (Sep 4, 2011)

Zenandra said:


> I worked at a walmart in the fish section about 3 summers ago (I'll never go back) I almost got fired because everyday I changed the water in the betta cups, conditioned it and added a pinch of Aq salt (I probably had the healthiest walmart bettas ever, haha) They said that it was a waste of time taking care of them like that, because they didn't care if they died. Did you know walmart gets money for all their dead fish? Every day they have to Tally how many die and what kind and then at the end of the week they send the list in to somewhere and get money back for all of the fish that died. They DON'T CARE if the fish die, they're not losing any money!


Good for you. Every time I walk into any store with bettas, I feel like taking every single fish home with me to make them all better. Then I remember I only have a 3 and a 10 gallon tank...


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## Bluebell (Oct 8, 2011)

ecoprincess said:


> one word: KHARMA
> 
> :/


 
i totally agree with this!


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## fobbie22 (Oct 11, 2011)

Well its youtube, every video comment has at least 1 stupid person commentating on it.


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## Tamberav (Mar 26, 2011)

Ugh Walmart, they used to have hamsters and birds and such as well in the past. They quit selling them because they the animals kept getting sick or injuries. But people don't complain as much about fish 

I wish they would just give up on selling live fish too.



kmargold said:


> Good for you. Every time I walk into any store with bettas, I feel like taking every single fish home with me to make them all better. Then I remember I only have a 3 and a 10 gallon tank...


Too bad that would only give walmart some profit. We need some sort of major betta heist and steal them all.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Tamberav said:


> Ugh Walmart, they used to have hamsters and birds and such as well in the past. They quit selling them because they were losing so much money from the animals kept getting sick or injuries.
> 
> I wish they would just give up on selling live fish too.
> 
> This is all hearsay, but I find it pretty believable from what I have seen.


Yeah so it gets pretty bad. Apparently the walmart here (talking to the manager of the "live fish" section when we still had it) took good care of the fish if only because of the manager - who has owned fish and that includes bettas  she said, the trucks used were not heated so the fish died or were terribly sick... So they stopped selling them. She says, if they EVER bring it back she'll be the manager of the area, and will properly train each and every associate in that section... Extensively. And she'd be allowed  too bad most stores lack someone that dedicated.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Guys this thread is REALLY old, if you still want to read it, that is perfectly fine, but i dont think a SM (Super Moderator) would want old threads to be popping up all over the place.

Thank you,

BL2033


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you, Silverfang. Yes, it's against the forum rules to post links to videos or anything depicting animal cruelty.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

what really gets to me is how they're shipped to the store. saw a few bags of fish 3-6 inches or more in a medium bag with slightly under .5gal of water. overcrowding in store tanks is one thing, overcrowding in shippin g bags is something else.


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## Fieldz (Apr 6, 2011)

People have no brain nowadays...


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

I wonder how she would feel if she was in a room the size of a closet (smaller than that!) People have to put their feet in others' shoes. (how would it be the other way around to them?)


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## ksage505 (Sep 19, 2011)

With my walmart, it seems to depend on who is currently working the fish section. Sometimes I go in and the bettas are in awful water and some are dead or sick and other times they all look perfectly healthy and have pretty clean water. I have two bettas from walmart, one had extremely damaged fins when I bought him and the other was fat and healthy. If it was tail biting or fin rot due to bad water conditions I can't say, I never saw him tail bite once I got him home so. Usually, the bettas are in better condition than the fish in the big tanks. I've seen way too many goldfish coated in ick, and I know some are brought to the story that way. I bought a black moor directly after the aquarium was stocked and once I got him home I realized he had ich starting up. It was difficult to notice at that point but any fish keeper who was paying attention would of noticed it. I've also been given incorrect advice, while other times I've been given correct advice. One of the workers once told me it was perfectly fine to use table salt for puffers :S 

Personally, I like that my wal mart does has fish. In my town the only other place to buy fish is a small pet store with a very limited selection. No, I can't stand it when they are treated badly but I've been to pet stores with fish in much worse shape than my walmart's fish. What irks me is some of the things customers do. I know I've seen on this forum where someone found two male bettas thrown in a cup together. I saw a blog post not long ago where someone found a betta in the freezers of the frozen food section >.< Luckily, the person who found him saved him and brought him home.

EDIT: Whoops, I didn't realize until after posting that this was an old thread.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

wheres the link to the blog? It's alright if you can't find it.


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

nel3 said:


> what really gets to me is how they're shipped to the store. saw a few bags of fish 3-6 inches or more in a medium bag with slightly under .5gal of water. overcrowding in store tanks is one thing, overcrowding in shippin g bags is something else.


bettas from aquabid are shipped in way less water

water = weight = cost more money


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Also, too much water can cause issues in shipping in general. Think about being in a car that is moving, but you aren't buckled in, and you are in a space the size of your room. It's going to be much more hectic than being in a smaller space. In general when shipping any animal you want to give them a tight space to stay in. Not too small, but small enough.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> Thank you, Silverfang. Yes, it's against the forum rules to post links to videos or anything depicting animal cruelty.


This was a very LONG time ago. I didnt understand the forum rules. Plus i didnt post any youtube links did I?

-BL2033


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I was not directing that comment at anyone in particular. I was simply stating that this forum has rules against posting links to stuff that depicts animal cruelty. This kind of stuff is very upsetting to a lot of members, including me. Guys, please familiarize yourselves with the rules Even though I stated that it was against the rules to post stuff like that some members continue to ask for links to these things. This thread is closed.
If anyone has any questions they can pm me or any other moderator.


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