# Stocking Questions



## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

I'm in the process of stocking my new 29 gallon freshwater planted community tank. Every time we go to the pet store, we see new fish we want to have. So, the list of fish I want just keeps growing. What I want to know is if I can realistically have them all. Here's what my tank looks like now:
Its filtered by an AquaClear 50. Later on I'm also planning on putting in a sponge filter. Double win- extra filtration and if I need to quarentine anyone I can just put it in my extra 10 gallon, which means instant cycle.
Its kept at a constant temp of 79 degrees.
Whats in it:
8 neon tetras, 5 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Kuhli loaches, 2 female swordtails, 2 black skirt tetras and 2 fancy guppies. And a single moss ball and some Java moss.
What I want to have in there:
hatchet fish (shoal of 6 or so), a mixed school of galaxy and pheonix rasboras, a German blue ram cichlid, a bristlenose pleco, a school of 7 or so rummy noses, some ghost shrimp, and I want to try to have a female betta too. I'll have a backup tank availible, in case she doesn't cooperate.
I've read that hatchet fish can I have difficulty when it comes to being outcompeted fo food, is there any special way or method of making sure they eat? Also, my filter intake is going to be covered in a sponge, so they dont get sucked in.
I'm also going to have alot more plants than are in it now.
All advice is greatly appreciated!


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

aqadvisor.com
Plug your filter, tank and fish stock in there ... At first glace I think you'll be overstocked/crowded with that list. 
[why doesn't [strike] [/strike] work on this forum =.= removing misinformation about tummies-mixed them up with some 6" species in my head sorry.
Hatchet fish are known jumpers, do you have a lid for this tank? If not get one.
I've not kept gbr and bettas together but they're both aggressive fish that claim territories, it might get ugly (or you may get passive ones that get along fine-have a back up to remove one if it goes bad).
Shrimp are likely to end up on the menu (or scared into jumping out) unless its a very densely planted ad well aged tank (plenty of microfauna fr them to forage on).
Your black skirt tetra really should be in a school of 6 or more. Would not keep betta(s) and black skits-those tetra are known to be nippy.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

This is just my experience:

Mixed Rasbora do not always shoal. I have Espei, Chili, Phoenix and Sundadanio in the eight and the only time they're together is when I feed. Every time I look at them I'm in awe of how something that tiny can survive and thrive.

You list eight shoaling species (3 Rasbora, 3 Tetra, Hatchets, Kuhli) which can get by in a Nano-only tank with the minimum of six. That's at least 48 fish. 

BUT....the itty bitty ones (1" and under) actually need 10+ if you're going to have fish so much bigger than they are like the Rams which are three times their size and semi-aggressives like the Black Skirts which get up to 2.5". (I think MikeG has Black Skirts so he can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure they're known for chasing and nippy?)

Because of the Rams, Betta and Black Skirts you'll need a lot of plants; a virtual jungle so the Nano will feel safe and act normally. A tank where the bigger fish don't have an open view from one end to the other of the tank. The Micro fish won't hide 24/7 with larger fish in the aquarium but they do need places to make a quick getaway.

You might try plugging in to www.aqadvisor.com. They tend to be a bit conservative in their stocking but they do compare parameters so you'll know if they're compatibe that way.

BTW, definitely no shrimp.

Nearly forgot: Look at the www.tropicalfishkeeping.com database or Google the fish llike this: Rummy nose tetra seriously fish. That will get you their discriptions on Seriously Fish. One thing you'll learn on SF is how to convert liters to gallons and mm and cm to inches.


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

Aqua Aurora said:


> aqadvisor.com
> Plug your filter, tank and fish stock in there ... At first glace I think you'll be overstocked/crowded with that list.
> Absolute NO for rummynose: bare minimum 48" length tank needed-they need a lot of swim room-very fast swimmers. 72" length is more ideal for them though.
> Hatchet fish are known jumpers, do you have a lid for this tank? If not get one.
> ...


OK, I'd only started considering the betta a few days ago; so I hadn't thought it through much. Seems like it isn't compatible- thats disappointing, but oh well.
I want to check on seriously fish about the rummys (like Russell suggested) becuase I really want them. Honestly, they're what made me upgrade from a 10 to 29 gallon- so I could have them. 
I don't have a lid at the moment, but I would have one by the time I got the hatchets. 
Both of you guys said no shrimps... I thought they would be fine in a community? Bit confused on that one.
I'll definatly be sure to get more black skirts. 


RussellTheShihTzu said:


> This is just my experience:
> 
> Mixed Rasbora do not always shoal. I have Espei, Chili, Phoenix and Sundadanio in the eight and the only time they're together is when I feed. Every time I look at them I'm in awe of how something that tiny can survive and thrive.
> 
> ...


Oh, thats disapointing. I'll just get galaxys then. 
I'm planning on it being pretty thickly planted, with driftwood and places to hide. But I think I will get more of the tiny shoalers.
Thank you both so much for all of the info!

*edit
Just went to seriously fish and it says the rummy noses can be kept in a minimum 20 gallon tank. Past research of mine agrees with this. I'm sticking with them.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I have found it's an either/or situation. Either all Nano/Micro Fish under 1.5" or bigger fish. You can't mix the two and have a peaceful, successful aquarium.

I said "no shrimp" because you are going to have the larger fish. While they're fine with Micro/Nano they would be food for the Ram, Black Skirts, Swords and, maybe, the female Betta. I have been lucky that all of my male Betta ignore the shrimp once they figure out they can't catch the healthy ones.

I want some Rams so badly but I know my little fish would be continuously stressed.

So many species; so little space. :-(


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

@Russell So definatly no ram then? Even in a planted tank? :-( that really sucks. I was planning on it being the 'center piece' fish. I thought it would be fine becuase it's a peaceful and shy fish. 
I know right? Thousands of species of fish, and you can only have a few out of them all. :shake:

OK, I'm starting to wonder if these guys are what I think they are. A week ago, I got three more Harlequin rasboras- becuase I only had 2 in my tank at the time. Or at least the guy who netted them out (who I trust as someone pretty knowledgeable about fish) said they were harlequins. When I asked him why they looked a little different, he said it was becuase they weren't fully grown. That was believable. They have similar marks and designs on their bodies. But now I'm starting to doubt. They don't seem to school with our Harlequins, and I looked up 'juvinile harlequin rasbora' on google images- the new fish don't match these pictures. I understand google images isn't very reliable, but still.
I have a pic of the new guys, and a pic of a 'true harlequin' for comparison. If these guys aren't harlequins, what are they?
1st pic- mystery fish
2nd pic- Harlequin rasbora


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Check out "Glowlight Rasbora"/Trigonostigma hengeli

Harlequin are Trigonostigma heteromorpha

They might even be Trigonostigma espei or Lambchop Rasbora


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Check out "Glowlight Rasbora"/Trigonostigma hengeli
> 
> Harlequin are Trigonostigma heteromorpha
> 
> They might even be Trigonostigma espei or Lambchop Rasbora


Yup, it seems they're Lambchop Rasboras. Which is kinda annoying, considering I was trying to get Harlequins. That explains why they're not schooling together, though. This means I'll have to get more of both species. Oh well, not like they aren't pretty or anything. Just wasn't planning for them.
Thanks for helping me figure that out! =D

OK, upddated stocking list-
hatchet fish, galaxy rasboras, german blue ram (still unsure on this one), BN pleco, rummy noses, and more of the tiny shoaling fish (and the blackskirts) I have now.
Is that good?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

What do you have now?

You could get by with the Ram IF you up the Micro shoals to 10+ and not six. Six if fish are approximately the same size. The larger the shoal the less stressed the Micro will be. Not sure about the Black Skirt.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> One thing you'll learn on SF is how to convert liters to gallons and mm and cm to inches.


or you'll be lazy like me and make an account there so you can change settings to inches and gallons then forget the password and just plug it into Google instead of learning... "convert 66cm to inches" ^^'''


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

You might want to look into a Bolivian Ram, my personal favorite instead of a GBR. They are much hardier and will adapt a lot more easier to nearly any water. GBR's need a temperature of 82°. A Bolivian ram would be a better fit for the fish you are considering. They are an excellent community citizens and would make an awesome centerpiece in your aquarium. 

You might want to re-think the rummynoses in a 30" aquarium. I had mine in a 20 long, which is the same footprint as a 29 and they were a little cramped. The bigger the tank the better for those guys.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Aqua Aurora said:


> or you'll be lazy like me and make an account there so you can change settings to inches and gallons then forget the password and just plug it into Google instead of learning... "convert 66cm to inches" ^^'''


Yep; hear that. ;-)


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

I decided to look up rummynose again.. apparently I mis-remembered their needed tank length.. wtf was I missing them up with that needs a 4-6' tank??  sorry a bout the misinformation on rummies from me ^^''


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Aqua Aurora said:


> I decided to look up rummynose again.. apparently I mis-remembered their needed tank length.. wtf was I missing them up with that needs a 4-6' tank??  sorry a bout the misinformation on rummies from me ^^''


It's that memory thing again. Caused me more _mea culpa_ than I care to remember....get it? "care to remember." :lol:


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> What do you have now?
> 
> You could get by with the Ram IF you up the Micro shoals to 10+ and not six. Six if fish are approximately the same size. The larger the shoal the less stressed the Micro will be. Not sure about the Black Skirt.


Right now I have:
8 neon tetras, 5 kuhli loaches, 2 Harlequin Rasboras, 3 Lambchop rasboras, 2 female swordtails, 2 guppies, and 2 black skirts.


Aqua Aurora said:


> or you'll be lazy like me and make an account there so you can change settings to inches and gallons then forget the password and just plug it into Google instead of learning... "convert 66cm to inches" ^^'''


ha ha I know right? google is our best friend..



MikeG14 said:


> You might want to look into a Bolivian Ram, my personal favorite instead of a GBR. They are much hardier and will adapt a lot more easier to nearly any water. GBR's need a temperature of 82°. A Bolivian ram would be a better fit for the fish you are considering. They are an excellent community citizens and would make an awesome centerpiece in your aquarium.
> 
> You might want to re-think the rummynoses in a 30" aquarium. I had mine in a 20 long, which is the same footprint as a 29 and they were a little cramped. The bigger the tank the better for those guys.


The Bolivian Ram sounds cool! I think that will replace the German Blue ram in my plans. 
Really? All of the online recources say that they would be fine in my tank. School of 6 wouldn't have enough room?



Aqua Aurora said:


> I decided to look up rummynose again.. apparently I mis-remembered their needed tank length.. wtf was I missing them up with that needs a 4-6' tank??  sorry a bout the misinformation on rummies from me ^^''


Ha ha, I didn't even notice. (I'm so observent.. :roll


OK- updated stocking list. So including the fish I have now, this is what I'm thinking:
8 neons, 10ish galaxy rasboras, 10ish lambchop rasboras, 10ish Harlequin rasboras, 10ish hatchet fish, 6 black skirt tetras, 6ish rummy noses (?), the guppies, swordtails, and kuhlis I have now, a BN pleco, and a Bolivian ram.

I know I've been asking tons of questions- I'm sorry if I'm being annoying! But I've found that if you're not careful enough, things can get ugly. So, thanks for being patient and helping me so much! ^-^


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Aqua Aurora said:


> I decided to look up rummynose again.. apparently I mis-remembered their needed tank length.. wtf was I missing them up with that needs a 4-6' tank??  sorry a bout the misinformation on rummies from me ^^''


Sounds like you were thinking of rainbows.

Don't feel bad AA, it's not like a tank that big would be a bad thing for them. I thought my rummies were doing spectacular when I had them in a 20 long. I noticed when I moved them into a 40 breeder their colors became even more vibrant. The extra space with this species is a plus. Lots of books and websites recommend a 10 gallon tank, that's way too small. I have a book that recommends a 37.5 gallon tank, this is what I'm most comfortable with. You should shoot for at least 36"long tank for these guys to get the most out of them.


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

MikeG14 said:


> Sounds like you were thinking of rainbows.
> 
> Don't feel bad AA, it's not like a tank that big would be a bad thing for them. I thought my rummies were doing spectacular when I had them in a 20 long. I noticed when I moved them into a 40 breeder their colors became even more vibrant. The extra space with this species is a plus. Lots of books and websites recommend a 10 gallon tank, that's way too small. I have a book that recommends a 37.5 gallon tank, this is what I'm most comfortable with. You should shoot for at least 36"long tank for these guys to get the most out of them.


OK. I absolutely hear what your saying, but I'm still going to try. Honestly, seeing the rummy noses in the pet store sparked me to want to upgrade my tank, partially to house them and partialty becuase I felt I was ready for a bigger tank.
If they're aren't happy, I'll find someone with a bigger tank to adopt them out to.
Thanks for your input.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Seventy fish is severely overstocked. :-( As you know, what we want and what's best for the fish often clashes. If you do decide to go with that many fish you'll need a bottle of Seachem Stability and to only add one shoal at a time.

Here's what AqAdvisor says:

http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Seventy fish is severely overstocked. :-( As you know, what we want and what's best for the fish often clashes. If you do decide to go with that many fish you'll need a bottle of Seachem Stability and to only add one shoal at a time.
> 
> Here's what AqAdvisor says:
> 
> http://www.aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor....AqSpeciesWindowSize=short&AqSearchMode=simple


Gah, I didn't count the amount of fish I was talking about. xP Of course 70 fish is too many. No way, I'm not attempting that kind of overstocking. 
Thanks for the link with all of that info, the site definatly seems useful. I'll plug in possibilities there instead of continuing to bother you guys. ;P


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> It's that memory thing again. Caused me more _mea culpa_ than I care to remember....get it? "care to remember." :lol:


Yes indeed..i really feel like it just stopped working at full capacity after the final final ever just "ok I'm done going on cruise control!" that was a long while ago now......As long as I don't forget the critical stuff like adding dechlorinator I'm good >.>''



MikeG14 said:


> Sounds like you were thinking of rainbows.
> 
> Don't feel bad AA, it's not like a tank that big would be a bad thing for them. I thought my rummies were doing spectacular when I had them in a 20 long. I noticed when I moved them into a 40 breeder their colors became even more vibrant. The extra space with this species is a plus. Lots of books and websites recommend a 10 gallon tank, that's way too small. I have a book that recommends a 37.5 gallon tank, this is what I'm most comfortable with. You should shoot for at least 36"long tank for these guys to get the most out of them.


Yeh you're probably right, rainbows sure like their swim room... seeing that rummies can take a smaller tank I kinda want to ditch my white clouds and and get some.. but they like more acidic water than I have (and I don't like messing with pH naturally (tannins) or chemically) :c Oh well


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Aqua Aurora said:


> Yeh you're probably right, rainbows sure like their swim room... seeing that rummies can take a smaller tank I kinda want to ditch my white clouds and and get some.. but they like more acidic water than I have (and I don't like messing with pH naturally (tannins) or chemically) :c Oh well


I'm with you, I don't like to monkey with my water but should give them a try. Mine are doing great on Philly tap water, driftwood & rooibos tea. They are constantly spawning but my PH is at 7.4 so everyone is pretty much shooting blanks.

They are incredible fish, I've had them since January they started out small and now the females are as big as my pinkie and almost as fat around. I started with 7 and in April tried to add 5 more. 4 died within 36 hours in quarantine. The lone survivor, a male has joined the school and is constantly after the females even know he is half their size.  

I want to eventually bring the school up to 12 but I haven't been able to find any nice ones lately.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

THATDragonLovesBettas said:


> Gah, I didn't count the amount of fish I was talking about. xP Of course 70 fish is too many. No way, I'm not attempting that kind of overstocking.
> Thanks for the link with all of that info, the site definatly seems useful. I'll plug in possibilities there instead of continuing to bother you guys. ;P


You're not bothering us at all. I always have felt one person's question gives 100 people answers. 

I didn't think you'd realized how many fish. LOL AqAdvisor can be a bit conservative and it calls four fish plenty for a shoal.


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## ThisDragonisNerdy (Mar 28, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> You're not bothering us at all. I always have felt one person's question gives 100 people answers.
> 
> I didn't think you'd realized how many fish. LOL AqAdvisor can be a bit conservative and it calls four fish plenty for a shoal.


:-D
Heh ;P
Really? Huh.
It's weird, because Dust (before I had Gray), the blackskirt would school with Diamond, my (very creatively named) diamond tetra. Before she passed away- just recently- all 3 of them schooled together. When I found out I had single schooling fish a couple months ago, I panicked. Then I looked into (at that point 10 gallon) tank, I realized the 2 had formed a frienship, despite them being different (although similar looking) species. I've always thought that was cool. 
Now it's just Gray and Dust (S.I.P. Diamond), and they seem perfectly content with just the two of them. Actually, Dust has been a bit pale lately, but I blame that on old age (I think I've had him for 3 years).


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