# Newbie, Unusual Circumstances, Advice Please



## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Three nights ago I acquired 4 Betta fish from a wedding reception; they were in large vases with lights as centerpieces. They were free to be taken home afterwards, and since 8 were left, my friend and I each took home 4 because we didn't want them to be thrown out/flushed/etc. I'm probably crazy, but I figured giving them a chance is better than nothing.

So now I've been researching as much as possible for the past 3 days and I'm getting pretty overwhelmed and frustrated, so I would like some advice on where my priorities should lie.

Here's what's going on at the moment...

Setup:

- I have 2 10 gallon tanks each with a divider. I know it would be better to have long and wide rather than tall, but it seemed this was the most space I could give them without spending way over my budget. I also realize that they could keep puffing up/flaring at each other through the mesh, but so far aggression seems to be at a minimum.

- I do not yet have heaters or filters. I would definitely like to get heaters, but I don't know when I will have the opportunity. Are there decent heaters available at commercial stores? I'm worried that I could order recommended heaters online and have them arrive too late after I've had a catastrophe anyway. I'm also still torn between filter or no filter.

- Each tank has gravel and 4 plants which for the moment are plastic. I tried to avoid spiky and sharp at least. I went with cheap for now just for the sake of giving them something. One tank has well water from our tap plus water conditioner, while the second has the CaribSea Ready Water, which is probably worthless, but I wasn't sure if our well water was fish-friendly or not, and I didn't know how much longer they could survive their cups either way.

Fish Behavior/Health:

- I acclimated them slowly over 3-4 hours yesterday by floating and adding tank water. when released, all 4 fish seemed active throughout the night.

- Today, the larger purple/red fish started to have longer bouts of sitting scrunched up in the bottom corner of the tank without swimming while his tank partner continued to swim around. The temperature of this tank is lower than it should be without a heater, which could be the lethargy cause, but his blue neighbor has been active, so I don't know if an illness outside of water conditions is the issue for red. He'll also suddenly spurt into action and swim around quickly before settling again, so I don't know if it's parasite-related and he's trying to rub out itches, it doesn't seem like hes pressing against anything to scratch. I can't identify anything wrong from looking at him. Pics: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z444/xPlumDragonx/photo4.jpg http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z444/xPlumDragonx/photo3.jpg

- In the second tank the smaller red fish seems to have a swim bladder issue that was not obvious until today. He keeps floating to the surface and seems to struggle to tip down. I also noticed gold streaks in his fins. I'm not sure if it is just his color/reflection of his scales, or if it is the velvet I have read about. It doesn't look like a dusting. Pic: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z444/xPlumDragonx/photo2.jpg
his tank neighbor again seems to be doing well. The tank temperature in this room reached 81 degrees.

I'm also worried about New Tank Syndrome as I've been finding conflicting info on how often and how much water to change since I don't have a filter and I didn't get to cycle before adding fish.

I'm just not sure where to begin since both tanks have one seemingly healthy active fish...heater, medicine, water change...? I also think they have some fin rot, but I'm not sure in my lack of experience.


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

Lets begin with the heater vs filter..Where are you from? Is it cold now or do you have time? I would go for filter if you are in a warm climate now..I'm putting getting one off myself since here cold will probably come in November. 5 gallons is good for each..I would just keep an eye on them..Keep up on water changes since no filtration I would do about 30% every 3 days to keep it clean maybe more, I'm sure someone that has filterless tank experience will comment on that. For now just make sure their water is nice and clean. Give them time to settle in and keep an eye on them. remember they were used for decoration so I doubt they were treated properly. let them adjust and just make sure they are comfortable.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I can't help you much with medication and such but maybe you could add some StressCoat to their water? Hopefully someone else can tell you whether or not this is a good idea. http://www.apifishcare.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=43

I also hope you know the bride/groom well enough to give them hell for having these living beings as wedding deco. That's sick! :evil:

I also think you are a saint :notworthy: ......four at once! 
Your friend, too, :yourock:


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hey there and welcome to the forum!
Very kind of you to take in so many betta at once!

I'll be the first to say, your betta will be fine without heaters or filters for a few weeks (unless you like a freezing cold house!). Don't feel rushed to buy heaters or filters, save up for something nicer and better quality. I always read online reviews of products before getting them. 

Keep an eye on that "lazy" betta. Could be as simple as cold water, yes. Some betta are just lazy though. Does he come up for food/air easily? He might appreciate a taller plant with broad leaves that would be good to sit on. 

For your second guy, I'd avoid feeding him for a few days and see if that helps. If it does, feed him less from now on. I have a couple of fish that are prone to bloating up like balloons if fed "normal" amounts. The gold in the photo looks like normal colouration. 

For water changes, I'd do at least two 25% changes a week for them. New Tank Syndrome can be prevented by lots of water changes, and 2 bettas in a 10 gallon don't do too much damage.


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

First off, you are wonderful for taking them home and giving them a chance! While the idea of pretty fish in vases sounds cool (and to be fair probably did look nice) not having a plan for them afterwards constitutes poor planning if not outright cruelty.

Anyway, stepping off the soapbox..your setup sounds great as far as size goes. Caribsea, if I recall right, is more for saltwater fish. Treated tap water is best for a betta. They can tolerate a bit of brackishness (salt of various kinds is actually a good treatment for many ailments) but it's not ideal.

I would look into heaters. I haven't personally ordered online, but I imagine you'd be fine if you stuck with major retailers. My heaters came from Petsmart and Petco. If you do get them, try to get the ones that allow you to set the temperature. They are a bit more, but it's worth it IMO.

Depending on how long they were stuck in the vases, some color change might be expected - they will tend to lose color/luster if they are under stress. But once in a stable setting, they should perk up.

Lack of activity could just mean the water is a little cold. Another easy purchase - the suction cup thermometers - usually $3 or less - for each tank so you know what the temp is.

As for anything else that seems to be happening - warm clean water is usually the best treatment to start. Good luck - I hope they recover from their time as decorations.


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## BeautifulBetta123 (Aug 27, 2012)

Hi welcome to the forum and your a hero for saving those littl guys. So i think that a ten gallon with a divider is fine [ my little guy who is a spoiled brat lives in a ten gallon] alot of bettas live happily in a 2-3 gallon tank and don't like a bigger tank anyways but maybe make the divider less see through to stop the flaring you can do this by weaving aquarium grass through the mesh As for the heater part i recommend one if you live in a place where it is cooler i live in Canada and in the winter it can get pretty chilly so i use one if you doo decide to get a heater i recommend one that you can adjust also get a themometer strip for each tank to monitor the water temp  I do not have a filter so i make up for it by doing a 25% water change every 3-4 days this is easy if you have a 5 gallon pail and a syphon hose to do the trick  as for the plastic plants i have one in my tank and its fine however watch for torn fins and take out the plant if they are ripping their fins on it. Now i'm no expert on fish diseases but maybe one of your fish is deppresed they tend to do stuff like that when they are upset try keeping his water temp at a warm temp and sit by him for for a little each day my fish loves it when i spend time with him although he might have some thing else as for the other fish sounds like swim bladder disorder but like i said i'm no expert on fish diseases  by the way what kind of food are you feeding? I reccomend pellets over flake food because they are often packed with more protein and vitemens for your fish  It sounds like you have a pretty good start alot of people don't do their research first and head to the petstore pick up a .5 gal for each fish some cheap food and then do the research and end up heading back to the petstore and in the end have spent twice the money they needed too. Happy fish keeping and i hope this helps


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Wow! I was hoping for at least one response today, but there are so many! Thanks so much!

Let's see, the temperature has been in the 80s. I do have air conditioning inside though, but we never have it freezing.

I do know the bride and groom pretty well, they were my roommates this past year, and I got to nag at them last semester when they did a trial run with goldfish (which lived for a day maybe two, which I'm guessing is why they swapped for Betta so they would live through the wedding). But I was like "wait...so what are you going to do with them after?" and they kinda shrugged it off, so I put in my two cents and said how that would be cruel, but there wasn't much else I could do about it. :|

The lethargic betta is still moping today, although he has moved to the top corner instead of the bottom. Last night he was still swimming up for air okay. He doesn't want to eat today and I just found a pellet in the gravel from yesterday. Not sure if he didn't eat at all or spit it out. My mom fed them yesterday. I think she gave two each so he may have had one pellet yesterday because I don't see it anywhere. He also spit out or didn't eat the first pellet I gave when they were still in cups on Saturday.

The two active blue guys ate two pellets today, although one of them spit one out, a good while after eating it too. I didn't feed swim bladder red, who is still floaty today. The pellets are Top Fin Color Enhancing Betta Bits.


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

I have those pellets..You can try cutting them, may be too big or what I also did..mash garlic and soak in water and dip the food in it..They love it and it's good for them.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_Hello and Welcome, I have saved a fish from a vase about a month ago, and depending on how long they were in there, they haven't had any room to swim, to put them in a big tank, sometimes it's the big space and the fact that they have weak swim muscles, and are not ready for it, but that could be the case with the one who is being (lazy) as for the pellets, if they are not eating them, as some will not, at first, just keep trying, it is common to have bettas that are picky, but also because they are getting used to thier new home..it does take some adjusting..sounds like they will be fine..I am so glad you took them in..It is hard 4 at once.._

_I just rescued another 3 myself, and as far as heaters go, they will be ok, for about another week, my rescue girls are still in Hospital tanks, and they have been for about 3-4 wks, no heater, consistent water changes, and good food will keep your bettas energetic, and they will want to flex those muscels, and fins..so keep an eye out for the lazy one, he may need Hospital tank to adjust better, then upgrade to bigger tank, later on..Hope all goes well.. good luck_


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

For heaters. you want 50 watts for ten galllons - search ebay or amazon. Heaters are good but since it is summer - you can put it off for a little bit - of course the sooner you get them, the happier the fish will be. I got most of mine by searching ebay. 

for unfiltered tanks - 2 changes a week. One 50% and one 100% and clean the gravel. You can get a gravel sipon for like $10 - well worth it and makes changes on large tanks much easier. 

The moapy betta may be because he is too cold. They get lethargic when the water isn't in the upper 70's...or he may be sick. keep an eye on him for signs of fuzziness, white spots, missing fins, ect.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Okay, I think I will do a water change tomorrow, I guess I'll go with the 50% suggestion as opposed to the 35% just to be safe. 

My mom remembered that we DO have a fish store nearby, so we went and I got thermometers. Both tanks have been around 73-74 degrees. 

The guy at the store had us get PH tests with the Ph up/down bottles, and said that I shouldn't bother with ammonia tests because there's nothing I can do to change ammonia...I just put in my "guinea pig" fish and let the ammonia do it's thing apparently.... :| I tried to mention water changes to adjust it, like I've been reading here and elsewhere, but he kinda acted like I was dumb. Then we went to Walmart to see if they had any cheaper stuff and ended up getting an ammonia test there instead.

I've read that changing the PH manually with the bottles can backfire anyway...should I return it? If so, should I just get the test without the bottles to change it?

I'm also going to order recommended heaters and filters online because there was a very limited selection at both stores.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

(Edit button went MIA so double post)

I'm also still nervous about my well water having heavy metals in it. Since the tank with well water hasn't killed anyone in the past two days, does that mean it's safe, or would it take longer for it to affect the fish? Don't want to do the water change and have well water in both tanks only to find out it's poisoning them


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

I think you only have 10 minutes or until someone replies to edit. At any rate, I don't have any good advice about the water parameters, but I have read stuff here on the boards and elsewhere indicating that messing with the PH of your water is generally a losing proposition, so unless yours is WAY off, it would probably be best to leave it alone.

You change water cause the fish put off ammonia as waste. The bigger the tank, the slower it builds up, so that's where that test kit could come in handy. (Says the person who has had fish for 6 months and just got a test kit last week....)

If you do put a filter in, watch the parameters carefully, cause if the tank starts to establish a cycle, you will see spikes in ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites as the various beneficial bacteria reach "critical mass" so to speak.

74 is a bit low for them to be really comfy, but its tolerable. 78-80 seems to be where mine become noticably more active, so thats where most of my tanks sit temperature wise.

Glad they are all still chugging along. Continued good luck


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Don't take ANY advice from pet store people! Ever!

Can't do anything to change the ammonia level?!? :rofl:
Ohhh the joys of uneducated pet store employees... 

Ammonia is invisible & toxic, created by fish waste and food. You can lower the ammonia level by doing water changes.

As for heater- I have via aqua heaters, they are adjustable & have thermostats, these would be Great for both your tanks. They're super cheap too.

http://www.amazon.com/ViaAqua-50-Watt-Submersible-Built-In-Thermostat/dp/B005440HLO

Don't use that ph up or down stuff. It does more harm than good,

I would suggest you get filters do you can cycle these tanks, without cycling you will need to do 100% water changes which will really suck with 10 gallon tanks.
If you decide not to cycle- on each tank do 2 water changes per week. 1 50% water change and 1 100% change. 
If you cycle the tank or are cycling it, NEVER do 100% water changes, this will remove the beneficial bacteria.

Go here to read about fish in cycling: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771

The heaters are more urgent for them than filters. You want the water 78-82 degrees, I keep my 10 gal tank at 80.

You can't cycle without a filter (;


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

To keep the PH down, you may want to buy some Indian Almond Leaves. They have a lot of properties that keep bettas healthy and happy. You can buy grade C leaves online (the grading of leaves is related only to appearance, not their quality). They do stain the water though so be prepared for that.
Well water isn't necessarily bad for bettas, it's only a problem if it contains high levels of toxins. I admit I don't know much about heavy metals in betta water but if they are doing ok so far they're likely fine with it.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

You guys are awesome and are helping me sooooo much!

I had something strange happen with the water I was aging. It's in two separate jugs each exactly the same from the tap (well water), and I added the same amount of conditioner to each. One is still clear but the other somehow turned murky brown-ish. It's got me baffled, and now I guess I don't get to do the water change today for one tank. :\

I'm not sure how I'm going to do a full water change either since I don't have enough jugs/buckets to age a full tank's amount of water in one day. 

I'm also moving back into my apartment for school next week, so I think I will get filters and attempt to start cycling when I get there. Since I'll have to do fish in cycling, my understanding is that if I monitor ammonia (at least) I can do partial changes during a spike, and be able to keep my fish alive through it?

Update on fishies:

Lazy red has become more active again! He also went for his food right away, although he was picky and spat it out. I don't see it anywhere now, so he may have finally eaten it.

Swim bladder red is still floating. Should I be going for the frozen pea approach?


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> You guys are awesome and are helping me sooooo much!
> 
> I had something strange happen with the water I was aging. It's in two separate jugs each exactly the same from the tap (well water), and I added the same amount of conditioner to each. One is still clear but the other somehow turned murky brown-ish. It's got me baffled, and now I guess I don't get to do the water change today for one tank. :\
> 
> ...


You don't have to let the water age; the only time I reccomend aging the water is with baby bettas. 

No, don't use pea. Pea is very bad for them. Try getting frozen daphnia, it works as a natural laxative. Petco or petsmart should have some in the freezer by the fish section.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Oh, I thought I had to age it because of the bubbles that form when the tap water gets to room temperature?

And I'll try the daphnia then, I have heard mixed things about the peas.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> Oh, I thought I had to age it because of the bubbles that form when the tap water gets to room temperature?
> 
> And I'll try the daphnia then, I have heard mixed things about the peas.


I've neer had a problem with bubbles...
But even if you do it won't really matter- it won't hurt your fish


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I hope you're right, because that would make water changing so much easier! What I kept finding was that the bubbles could form inside of the fish and cause gas bubble disease? Here are some sources where I found this:

http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=18075

"It is also a good idea to age your water at least 24 hours. This allows dissolved nitrogen to outgas. When you add water from the tap directly to an aquarium, you will notice tiny air bubbles forming on everything in the tank. This is a result of the water becoming supersaturated with nitrogen because of water warming to room temperature after being cold in the pipes, and being pressurized. These bubbles could potentially form inside your betta, resulting in gas bubble disease."

http://bettalatethannever.jimdo.com/betta-splendens/setting-up-a-new-tank/gas-bubble-disease/

:-?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Posting links to other forums is against our rules, you should edit out that first link while you can. 

Gas bubble disease is only a concern in cooler water being heated up rapidly by a heater, not as much from filling your tank up from what I've seen.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

I just looked it up- its possible but very unlikely - try reading here http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=80883


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Sorry, I didn't think posting something as a reference source was a problem (forum or not). I'm just trying to figure things out here for the fishies. 

Thanks, guys! Although someone mentioned well water, which is what I have, and there were a good deal of bubbles forming on the tank walls the first time I filled it.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Its common and normal for new tanks to have bubbles for a few day, they should g away soon mine did in my 5 gallon but there is some bubbles where the water filters back in the tank all the time which of course is normal. Glad to hear your one guy is eating !


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

I never age my water, haven't had any problems with it. I would suggest heating the water from the tap by feel to match the water temp in the tank (your hands are surprisingly accurate with this stuff) and you can add the water right away after being conditioned  I assume that would also take care of this bubble issue.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Woah! good job for saving those bettas. I can't believe they "experimented" with a goldfish first!

Since I'm in NYC I'd be happy to send you some Indian Almond Leaves and you can see if that will perk them up! They're very good de-stressors XD.
Shipping is around $1.50 I belive and I'll stuff as much as I can in a largeish envelope.

I also have a large HOB filter that came with a 2nd hand petco bookshelf tank. I'll be happy to give that to you too (as well as the filter media). I need to test ot and see if it works though! I wish I could give you my heater too, but I would be needing that in the winter(sorry!). 
Let me think of what else I have that I can donate to you  If ur willing to pick up, you can probably have my book shelf tank too >.> Oh I also have some left over hikari pellets..... Sorry gettig carried away! Will get a photo of everything when I'm home!


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah, I think you should get a filter and cycle the tank. I have one of my betas in a 5 gallon tank, and it was actually cycled after only a couple of weeks with my fish in it the whole time. I had been prepared for a long process but it was much quicker than I expected! I still check the water parameters regularly, though. Definitely get yourself a water test kit.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

OrangeAugust said:


> Yeah, I think you should get a filter and cycle the tank. I have one of my betas in a 5 gallon tank, and it was actually cycled after only a couple of weeks with my fish in it the whole time. I had been prepared for a long process but it was much quicker than I expected! I still check the water parameters regularly, though. Definitely get yourself a water test kit.


My betta lives in a 10 gal tank, it took 4 weeks to cycle. Although each situation is different (;


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Picture as promised!
If you are close enough to pick up from woodside queens... 










There is a 
6.6g tank
filter
light
small sponge filter
airpump
airline
air valve thingy
betta flakes
hikari biogold
a stresscoat bottle of prime (is that cofusing?)
Indian almond leaves
2packs of petco filter cartridges
1 box of carbon and filter inset floss things

I bought the tank 2nd hand last saturday for $20... But although it fits on my tiny window... It also blocks off half the circulation. and being in a basement with no AC, I thought I was going to suffocate :/. (poor student situation, LOL)
I was going to re-sell this on craigslist, but if it can help you and your fish, I'd be happy to donate!


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## Greylady (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi and congratulations on your new fishies, I applaud your efforts to try to do right by them. I'm not an expert but I though I'd mention my experience with swim bladder issues in case it helps you.

When I first got Gandalf, (my avatar) he had serious swim bladder issues. I'd give him one tiny pellet soaked in water and a couple hours later he'd be so puffed up he would bob to the top on his side and not be able to swim at all. It was terrible. I tried all the tricks, fasting, the pea trick, I spent days on the internet reading and reading trying to help him. My heater was not adjustable and the box said it would only keep the water at 78, I could not get the temp higher then that. So I bought a new heater that would go up to 90 and set it for 82 and he loves it. His swim bladder cleared up immediately and I haven't had any issues since then. I'm not saying this will fix your betta's swim bladder issues because all bettas are different,, but it seems to have made a huge difference for my betta. I've read that their metabolism is very slow and will slow down even further if they are cold, so sometimes that contributes to the swim bladder issues.

Anyway, that was the long way of saying maybe a heater will help your little guy that seems to have swim bladder issues.  

PS, the 6.6 "PETCO bookshelf tank" pictured above is what Gandalf is in. I love the tank and would buy another in a heartbeat.  

Good luck!


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I did the half water change last night without aging the water, so far everyone seems fine!

I also just went to Petsmart and got the Hikari frozen cubes of Daphnia. How exactly do I feed it though? The cubes seem pretty big, do I thaw it in tank water, then cut it into itty bitty pieces? If it's too much for "Mr. Floaty", should I give them all some as a treat?

Edit: Well I found out that the cube breaks apart into itty bitty pieces anyway, so I just don't know how many bitty Daphnia pieces each should get.

Aokashi, that would be awesome, but I don't think I could come by to pick it up. But if there are things that you could mail, then I'd be glad to have them. I guess I would pay shipping through paypal?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

XD I thought u weren't coming back 

I can send you... airpump, sponge filter, fish food, Prime (in a stress coat bottle) and IAL  

A medium flat rate box is about $11.50 i think or parcel post for $5.20.

I'll check my other filter to see if it still works. might be too small though

edit: great news. I just managed to stuff everything into a small priority box! Shipping will be $5.50!


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Fishy updates:

Floaty red finally came back down and has been active at times and lethargic at others. I got heaters yesterday and when I put it in the tank he was all over it checking it out! He's also been eating.

His tankmate, however, has just broken out with what looks like fungus. He's got white patches on one side (doesn't look like salt spots/ick). I'm wondering if the higher water temp allowed the fungus to grow overnight. I read the disease section here and turned the water temp back down to 76F. I'm also going to use aquarium salt and water changes. Should I leave out the gravel and (plastic) plants while treating?


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

aokashi said:


> XD I thought u weren't coming back
> 
> I can send you... airpump, sponge filter, fish food, Prime (in a stress coat bottle) and IAL
> 
> ...


You are so awesome!


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> Fishy updates:
> 
> Floaty red finally came back down and has been active at times and lethargic at others. I got heaters yesterday and when I put it in the tank he was all over it checking it out! He's also been eating.
> 
> His tankmate, however, has just broken out with what looks like fungus. He's got white patches on one side (doesn't look like salt spots/ick). I'm wondering if the higher water temp allowed the fungus to grow overnight. I read the disease section here and turned the water temp back down to 76F. I'm also going to use aquarium salt and water changes. Should I leave out the gravel and (plastic) plants while treating?


Hmmm this sounds like a job for OldFishLady or sakura8

Imma send them a pm with a link to this thread.

Might be columnaris fungus.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah he's not looking so good, he looks like a rotten fruit.


















And he's normally been a dark blue color, not the reddish he seems now. 

I think I'll go move over to the disease section.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh dear. did the stuff arrive yet?
For now I suggest a quaratine in aquarium salt for the poor fellow. 1tsp/gallon. predissolved in conditioned water before you pour it in.

I believe the best med would be furan-2. Ive hear of others, but can't name them off the top of my head


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Schwielala and welcome to the forum.

I kinda skimmed through the first 4 pages but from what I understand, you have 4 bettas and two of them were acting a bit off. The one who was lethargic has started to show more activity which could be due to the new heaters but the red fellow looks . . . well, to be honest, pretty bad.

Since we have no real way of knowing how the bettas were even kept before the wedding, it's highly possible he had ammonia poisoning and a few other issues by the time you got him. If it's possible, try to put him into a QT tank/container. It can even be a big mixing bowl or a Rubbermaid bin. Just something to keep him away from his tankmate.

Aokashi is correct, 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon, predissolved in a bit of tank water, would be the best step at this point. The white stuff we're seeing could be any number of things but the most likely culprits are: excess slime coat from stress, saprolegnia (a true fungus), or columnaris which resembles a fungus but is a bacteria. AQ salt will help treat all 3. API Furan-2 is a good antibiotic but I'm reluctant to suggest it right now because I hate to see you spend more money on a med that may be too late. 

I don't want to get your hopes up though. Once they start laying on the bottom like that, things generally don't turn out well.  But you are a great person for rescuing them and for giving them a good and loving home and this guy, if he does pass, at least will pass in clean water with someone who cares.

Regarding your pH etc. You are correct: don't mess with it using uppers/downers. If you need to lower your pH, a more stable means of doing it is using Indian Almond Leaf. I'd be happy to send you some, as would many other members so all you need to do is ask. Otherwise, those chemicals tend to just make the pH fluctuate all over the map and that's even more stressful. These bettas of ours are more hardy in regards to pH than wild bettas and they can tolerate most levels. As long as your pH isn't like 9.0, you're fine.

Filtering divided tanks can be hard. If you use a hang on the back power filter, it usually on filters one side. My suggestion is to get two sponge filters, one for each side, and an airpump with a gange valve. That way, both sides get filtered and water current and you only need one plug. You can also use box filters like Penn Plax The Bubbler or Lee's Corner Filters, anything that runs off an airpump.

Let us know how the other bettas are doing and if you need any more help.

Oh! Frozen daphnia. Best method of feeding is to use an eyedropper or your finger tip to put a bit in the water near the betta in question. It's hard stuff to feed, as you're discovering.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Aokashi, your things haven't arrived yet 

Thanks for the help, I just did a full water change and put it new water, mixed in 1tsp per gallon aquarium salt and conditioner. They are both still in the tank right now because I really can't think of anything else I have. The Tupperware I have has all be used and washed with soap multiple times. I might have some yucky cobweb happy buckets in the garage, don't know if that could cause more sickness.

And actually, that's the sad thing is the sick guy has been dark navy blue up until today, now he looks red. While doing the water change he still had some spunk in him, and I actually can't see white spots anymore (so confusing @[email protected]), now he just looks extremely pale and his fins are almost see-through.











"Ex-Floaty"/"Little red" (I really need to name these guys) pictured below has had ups and downs activity-wise. The only thing I can see on him is a shiny spot behind his gills. It doesn't look fuzzy, it looks like a shiny white scale. :|


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

D: I shipped it priority thursday night T_T unless there's no saturday mail at your house? I'm worried


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I just checked again to make sure the mailman didn't ninja deliver it, but there's nothing  He ninja delivered my heaters yesterday. I sat here waiting and worrying they wouldn't get here. In the meantime my mom was coincidentally fixing the doorbell and when she went to put it outside, tada! My heaters were already there!

Also I guess to be more clear about who is who, 

Tank one:

Big Red/Purple: Was lethargic but perked back up, has been active and eating for the past few days.

Blue/Red: Has been active and eating

Adding their heater tomorrow when I move into my apartment for school

Tank two:

Floaty/Little Red: Had swim bladder issues. Gave Daphnia that he didn't eat but must have eventually because in the morning he was better. Lethargic for a while afterwards. When I added the heater yesterday he explored it and examined it. He has been off and on activity-wise since. Eating well. 

Navy Blue: The one who is currently sick. Activity was also off and on throughout the week. Was eating until today. Currently floating at the top corner of the tank bein' sick


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Poor boys. The best thing for Mr. Swimbladder would be epsom salt at 3 tsps per gallon. Do you have a WalMart near you? They have these: 
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-5.5-Quart-Latch-Box-Set-of-6/20699632
Don't worry, in store you can buy them individually. It's only online you have to buy them in packs. Those make excellent hospital tanks.

Alternatively, you can go to the grocery store and get a pack of Gladware containers that hold 8 cups. Those are small enough that they can be floated in the tank to keep the guys warm. To dose those, you find something that holds a gallon and add the salt dosage to that, then pour it into the container. Save the rest for water changes, which will need to be at least once a day.

As for Mr. Chameleon. Well, bettas do change colors when stressed so I can only guess that's what he's done. They also just change colors for the heck of it. Brought home a beautiful sky-blue girl one time and overnight she turned brick red and stayed that way for the rest of her life. 

I'm just worried the stress of the wedding did him in.  He may have had some issues before he was even purchased and then being in a vase didn't help. When a betta is stressed, their immune system goes kaput and they become susceptible to diseases.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

sigh... well tell me if it doesnt arrie on monday. I'll return you the money


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Don't worry, Schwiela, Aokashi has mailed products to many people. Totally honest.


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Don't worry, Schwiela, Aokashi has mailed products to many people. Totally honest.


She is!

Bc of her I have a light for my 2.5!


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Sakura, thanks for the info, I'll see what I can get tomorrow if he makes it through the night. He sunk to the bottom again so it's not looking good. If he does make it he gets to go through more crud, because I have to get him and his buddies to my apartment and then hope the tap water there isn't somehow bad for them. @[email protected]

Haha, don't worry guys/Aokashi, I believe you. I could see that you were a senior member and that you send out drawings, plus this would be a really random way for a scammer to get to me. ;


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're doing the best you can, Schwiela so whatever happens, you can know that you tried your best.  At least he has someone who loves him.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

aokashi said:


> sigh... well tell me if it doesnt arrie on monday. I'll return you the money


Monday is a holiday, will priority mail still be delivered? :shock::-(


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Monday is a holiday, will priority mail still be delivered? :shock::-(


My mom just said the same >_<


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh crud. Of all the times for a holiday . . .


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

T_T and there's a bag of IAL and a bottle of prime in there too. Why can't teleports be invented :/ maybe it's at the local post office. I knewwww I should have added tracking D:
thanks for trusting me! I'm just kinda bummed that the IAL wont get there when you need it most.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

It's not your fault  At least you tried to go out of your way to help!


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Good news everyone! 

Mr. Sicky is back up, swimming, and eating! He still looks a little off in color, and he's not perfectly active, but he's at least up and moving!

In other good news, Big Red from tank one left me a little bubble nest! 










The guys in tank one also got to make friends with my kitty as you can see in my avatar. They both seemed equally curious about each other! She pawed at them and they didn't even care! I imagine it went like this:

Kitty: What are dese little creatures? Dey moves and I must haves dem! Give me demz!!
Fishies: Dat is a funny lookin human thing. Maybe it will feed me.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Those fish sure were fortunate to have you and your friend at that wedding. This is a TRUE RESCUE. My hat's off to you!

PS, my tanks are full of cat snot and nose prints on the front :-?:lol::lol::lol:


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> Good news everyone!
> 
> Mr. Sicky is back up, swimming, and eating! He still looks a little off in color, and he's not perfectly active, but he's at least up and moving!
> 
> ...



Great news!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I love your cat and I'm so happy they are feeling better.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

So today went well. I'm at my apartment and all of the fishies seem to have made it okay, and seem okay in the tap water here. Everyone has been active including Mr. Sicky. I still have him in aq salt and I think I'll do another day of salt tomorrow at least just to make sure he gets whatever illness it was out of his system.


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## mursey (May 9, 2012)

Just skimmed your story . . very sweet of you guys to take 4 fish each. Sorry ot insult but your friends are jerks who just shrugged & didn't care about what would happen to them after the wedding.

I hope your fishies continue to do well. (Also I grew up in NJ & just wanted to say hello!)


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> So today went well. I'm at my apartment and all of the fishies seem to have made it okay, and seem okay in the tap water here. Everyone has been active including Mr. Sicky. I still have him in aq salt and I think I'll do another day of salt tomorrow at least just to make sure he gets whatever illness it was out of his system.


Yay!

And soon you'll get your care package from Aokashi!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> So today went well. I'm at my apartment and all of the fishies seem to have made it okay, and seem okay in the tap water here. Everyone has been active including Mr. Sicky. I still have him in aq salt and I think I'll do another day of salt tomorrow at least just to make sure he gets whatever illness it was out of his system.



OMG i'm so happy that the terrible looking betta (Mr sickly? is that name sicking?) made it!

XD congrats!!!
Your cat is so cute too  love the fur :O


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Haha! I don't know what names will be sticking with them. I really need to get on that now that it seems like they'll be living for a while. I was afraid to name them right away cause it would have been even worse if they didn't make it @[email protected]; Now I'm not sure if I want to name them after characters or give them silly names like floaty and sicky. It's gotta be fitting of their personalities! Hee hee.

"Sicky" is still doing well today, he looks dark navy again. He does have markings on the outside of his gills though, like a stripe on each one in the same place. One side looks red and the other side looks white and red. They're both small marks and I've noticed them before depending on how the light reflects off of him, but can't tell if they're open sores, an infection, or just markings.

@Mursey: Hello!!  And yeah, it made me mad at them too.


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## mursey (May 9, 2012)

I wonder where they got that many bettas for the wedding. I guess you could just get a whole bunch of veiltails for cheap at any of the big pet stores.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

did the mail arrive yet...? D:


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

My mom said it did finally arrive. The only problem is I'm at my apartment an hour away now, so I can't use it right away >_<; I'll have to get it the next time I can go home...and I think I'm stuck here this weekend. T_T

In other news, Tank Number 2 has had their gravel and plants returned since they've been healthy after the few days of salt treatments. Now I'm doing salt for Tank 1 because my healthy guys got lethargic and clamped-fins on me. The plants and heater were slimy when I took them out to wash them, and the fish look like their fins are stiff when they swim around, almost like someone glued their fins in place so they don't open. x_x;


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Salt stimulates the production of slime coat so the nasty stuff was probably shed slime coat that accumulated on equipment. Plus, some of it's just nasty natural "heater snot."


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

The tank with slime is the one that didn't have salt yet until today.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Then I'm guessing it's heater snot. I have no idea what heater snot is, if it's good bacteria or algae or what. I just know that tanks, especially tanks with lots of silicone, get it a lot. It's harmless, just gross.


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

Been away for a week - was happy to catch up and see they sound like they are doing better. Good job


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

We have a problem!! Tank one is definitely sick. They now have fuzzy white strings hanging from their fins. T_T


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

I had a betta once who had gross stuff (like what you describe) hanging off of him. I didn't know much about bettas at the time but I read online that it was a fungal infection, so I found some stuff at the pet store that treats that. I forgot what it was called, though. This was about 5 years ago. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. But yeah, it sounds like fungus.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Thought your fish was dead until I tilted my head.*

It's fungus, my large red betta girl had a little patch of white fuzz on the top of her head. Dropped her in a k-salt bath for a night, morning came and it was gone. 

Noticed something similar to my blue female Delfine, dropped her in some K-salt and going to check on her right now. 

I'm going to assume it's gone as well.

Do you have any aquarium salt or kosher salt in the house.

Also a teaspoon measuring spoon?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I just had one die from what seemed to be gill flukes. He did nothing but hang at the water surface all day :/

glad everything arrived...


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

I had one with similar looking **** hanging off his fins. I gave him a 7 day treatment of AQ salted water and he was fine.

I'm still not sure if it was fungus or excess slime coat.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I originally put them in AQ salt yesterday because they had been clamped and lethargic for a couple days, then today I noticed the stringy stuff. It looks like they swam into cobwebs. I'll keep doing 100% daily changes with salt until it clears up I guess.  Blue guy is at least eating still, Red guy doesn't want to eat, and has blown a bunch of random bubbles across the surface (they're all individual, not a nest).


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Excess slime coat or less possibly saprolegnia. AQ salt, 1 tsp per gallon.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

After a couple days it doesn't seem like they have improved. Red looks worse today, he's gotten paler. And I've been suspecting that Blue might have some popeye but I'm not sure. It sucks cause these guys were healthy all week before I moved them up here.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

...I think I might be losing Red, he was just darting around and now he's starting to float/turn over.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Don't forget you got them a wedding reception*


Before the florist put the bettas in the vases @ the dinner reception I'm sure they weren't kept in ideal conditions.
Chances are they were suffering from some form of illness before.
Sometimes these other symptoms/problems don't show up till a week or two later.
Also if you're treating them for illnesses, I would do it in a small 1G -2.5 gallon tank/tupperware that's divided into little sections for each of the ill ones.
What size tank is the one with the divider?
My last posting Define the blue inquisitive female has something similar like excess slimecoat dangling off her body & the overnight k-salt dip cleared it up. 

I just changed out all their water & fed them several pellets each as a reward. So everyone is nice & happy now.



Darting is definitely not a good sign.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

The tank is a 10 gallon with the divider. Both fish have the same symptoms but the blue guy seems better than red. They've been in salt treatments for a couple days but it doesn't seem like it's helping. I'm going to go find some fungus medicine.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

:/ poor fishies. can you get that IAL any time soon? it will help soothe them a bit.
It's easier to make tea out of it first. 
Shred them up a bit, and fit them in a large bottle. 
Add warm (not boiling) water into the bottle.
Add dechlorinator
Let it steep until the color becomes very very dark.
Pour into tank as needed...


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I can go home today to get it, but it will be a couple hours so I didn't know if it would be more important to get fungal medicine nearby asap than to go home for it.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Fungal meds first :/


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Gees.... I should have treated the leaves like tea. Results would have been much better. 

Glancing over at the now, it looks like they're having fun playing in the leaves. 

Don't get the anti-fungal medicated foods. My fish HATE that stuff. You're going to have to use the stuff that you add to the water.



 I would suggest trying to treat them in a smaller than 10 gallon tank. Makes clean up & medicating a lot easier.
When a fish is ill, they don't usually move around much since they're trying to conserve their energy to fight off whatever is ailing them.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Could you recommend some brands? I'm at a loss and really only know furan-2, maracyn and maracide (parasites)

edit: and i do find the leaves to seep tannins much faster as opposed to using whole leaves. the more pieces you can rip them into, the darker the water


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I don't usually treat my fish for hardcore diseases. The last one was when Akoya developed a slight pop-eye condition and I fed him medicated fish flakes. He HATED that stuff.
 The worst was when I tried to feed him the Jungle parasite pellets. He spit them out 50 times and I removed after the swollen medicated pellet few hours.
 
*I have a 4oz bottle of .....Aquari-Sol Freshwater Aquarium Treatment - on the bottle it says it also treats for fungus.

*

* From Jason P on Bad-oleAnswers.com. he doesn't mention using it for fungus at all so I don't know. 
*
*

"*If I recall correctly, aquari-sol is chelated copper salts... it's marked as the "safe" copper treatment.

The problem is it's chelated... while chelated copper is less toxic to fish, it's also less toxic to parasites and invertebrates. 

Another issue with using copper is water alkalinity. While it effects most ich medications, it really alters how copper works. Copper is MUCH more toxic in water with low alkalinity than it is in water with high alkalinity. 

It wouldn't be my preferred treatment for a heavy ich infestation. 

What I would do is this: Add a bit of salt. Not only does this help kill ich, it will also help replace lost electrolytes due to ich. Ich feed on the body fluids of fish... this causes a loss of electrolytes. 

Second I would use a malachite green based treatment. Half dose if you have sensitive fish. Malachite green is much more effective than aquari-sol will be. Avoid the organic stuff... while it works for minor to moderate outbreaks, anything that's killing your fish I would call severe. In my experience, the best chemical medication for severe ich outbreaks is malachite green."


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

would avoid copper if possible :/


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Well I just got home with the API Fungus Cure but it looks like I'm too late. Red didn't make it. It really sucks cause he was kind of my favorite.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

ugh, I'm so sorry for your loss :/ I would treat all the others anyway...


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Oh no im so sorry for your loss! at least he passed in the care of a loving owner :,)


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## BettaQi (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh schwielala! Condolences to you!

You are working so hard! Thank you for putting forth all this effort!


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks guys. Blue guy is still okay. He doesn't seem to have cobweb strings anymore but he's still clamped. He's swimming around though and still has a healthy appetite. I have him in the API Fungus Cure so I'm hoping for a recovery from him at least.

Tank two which was sick the week before this has been great. Dark blue guy has really bloomed. His fins are huge and pretty and his color is really dark with different shades of blue on his fins. Little red guy hasn't been floaty again either!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_Wow..Applause to all your hard work I just caught up with this thread..you are doing a fantastic job with your rescues..Very sorry for your loss _
_I hope the other ones being treated come through..I will be sending well fishy wishes your way!!_


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry about your loss, Schwiela.

I second Aokashi, avoid copper. It's a potent med and hard to control. Once you use it, you have to either tear down the tanks COMPLETELY to get rid of the remaining copper or get a copper monitoring kit to make sure you're getting it all out. 

BasementBettas on here has recommended Aquari-Sol, I think. I would try to avoid the Maracyn medicines as they are not that effective.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

I think Blue guy has made some progress today. He's still swimming, eating, and curious, but his fins are still clamped up. They look like they were dipped in paste and got stuck together and look brittle or rigid like they're plastic. Here's a horrible quality video but you can kind of see how his fins are moving, especially at 29-40 seconds. The water is green from the fungus medicine.

http://s1190.photobucket.com/albums/z444/xPlumDragonx/?action=view&current=IMG_0633.mp4

Here's how he's looking.








This was the best I could get with a flash to check for velvet. In a way he had a shine to him with light on him, but I haven't come across an actual picture of velvet to really know what it looks like. The camera flash I think exaggerated the color in the picture anyway.









And this was the best I could get (my phone doesn't seem to like the green water, it doesn't want to focus) to figure out if his eyes are bulgy. They aren't cloudy at all.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

velvet isnt common and often misdiagnosed  and bettas have natural iridescence, so I believe that isnt what he has.
he could be clamping from the mediaction. see how he does when the treatment is over...


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

So sorry for your lose, your doing a great job happy to hear Blue guy is doing better.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Aww what a cutie  I'm glad he's doing better!
I see you got a via aqua heater- is it working well?


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah, one of you guys recommended the brand of heaters (I'd have to look back and check the username, or was it you? >_<) and they seem to be working well. The temperature is pretty stable. Sometimes I make slight adjustments depending on the room temp. It's a little apartment with window air conditioners so sometimes it's hot and sometimes it's cooler. No matter what, it seems like it takes a while for the temperature to raise or lower at any time which is good.

Aokashi, he has been clamped for half of the week at least since him and Red (RIP) started getting sick. Their fins both looked like brittle plastic, glued shut at the tips. Then after that was when I realized there was cobweb looking stuff hanging off of them too. Then Red got worse and didn't make it as we know. I couldn't see the cobweb stuff on Blue anymore yesterday even before I put him in the medicine. I still don't see it today, he's just clamped. It looks like he can't spread them even if he wanted to.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

it just means he unconfortable about...something. give it a day or two. if he's improving in behaviour, then likely he will eventually unclamp himself.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Velvet is definitely one of the most misdiagnosed external parasite diseases but trust me, once you've seen it for real you'll never mistake it. The flecks are very noticeable. Some say the betta looks like he's been dipped in gold dust but to me, velvet looks more like he's been rolled in cornflour crumbs.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Okay, I'll assume there's no velvet then. 

I just did the second dose of medicine today. After 48 hours this time it says to do a partial change (I think it was 25%) and then add your filter back (which I don't have anyway). After I do a partial change, I'm not sure how long I'm supposed to wait to do a full change so he's not in the medicine for too long. Should I just do a full change after the 48 hours, since I don't have a filter/cycled tank?

I also have a question about cleaning. So far I've been washing everything in both hot and cold water (no soap). What other things can I use to clean the tank/ornaments/heaters etc. so I'm not spreading bacteria/fungus etc.? I've heard of using white vinegar (then washing it off well) and I've read about bleach but that bleach is VERY BAD if it comes into contact with the fish, so I think I want to avoid bleach because I don't trust myself to clean it off well enough.

OH! And I opened my new packs of plastic plants last week but they SMELLED so strongly of rubber. I've soaked them in hot water a few times and the smell has definitely decreased, but if I hold them up to my nose, I can still smell them. Do I toss them, or should it be okay? They ARE meant for aquarium use.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I did the same thing with the new silicone decoration I got...next day put it in the tank and all has been fine so I would say they would be fine to put in.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Vinegar is great for cleaning, but when using it on your tank, be careful it can eat away at the seal.

I wouldn't use bleach on decor personally, but you can use bleach on the tank, rinse it off very well, then let it sit out in the sun to dry completely.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Congratulations, you have also discovered the foul odor of plastic aquarium plants.



That's the smell of the plastic, not rubber. Not much you can do about it because it's literally in the plastic.
I have some plastics that are clearly labeled as manufactured in 1970's and it still has the smell.
Live plants generally don't have any odor, unless they're decaying or covered in some mold/fungus.
The type of salt people use to eat with, table salt in the can, I clean with it.
If you have some of the iodized salt, use that in addition to a old toothbrush to scrub the decorations if you really feel the need to.
You could fill a spray bottle of vinegar to use instead of water.
 
3 safest ingredients I would recommend.

Baking soda (you can use the old box that's sitting in the fridge),
salt (morton's is perfect.)
vinegar (put it in a spray bottle for easier saturation)


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Blue guy has been doing better still. His fins have finally unclamped although they are more tattered than they were. I just did a full change so he's in regular water again and I gave him his gravel and plants back plus the new plants I got. Now I just have to make sure they don't tear his fins. 

I have another concern now though. Marijuana. The guy downstairs smokes sometimes and the smell wafts up into my apartment. It's mostly just been annoying, but now that I have fish I'm worried that their air/water will get contaminated from it. Seriously, if I lose my fish because of some jerk after I've been working so hard for them (and getting attached), I'll strangle the guy myself.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> Blue guy has been doing better still. His fins have finally unclamped although they are more tattered than they were. I just did a full change so he's in regular water again and I gave him his gravel and plants back plus the new plants I got. Now I just have to make sure they don't tear his fins.
> 
> I have another concern now though. Marijuana. The guy downstairs smokes sometimes and the smell wafts up into my apartment. It's mostly just been annoying, but now that I have fish I'm worried that their air/water will get contaminated from it. Seriously, if I lose my fish because of some jerk after I've been working so hard for them (and getting attached), I'll strangle the guy myself.


Oh my gawd Idk how you can deal with that! I smell it all the time at school it's so disgusting. :roll: 

Maybe discuss it with the person in charge of the apartments?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

urk, yeah it's disgusting... I visited a friend of my bf's in the bay area. And he had a room that reeked of the stuff.... I had to quickly step outside before I threw up...


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Unless you want to get the guy evicted.... type up a letter, NOT a written note to inform him that you can smell the grass burning & you have some allergy to the smoke. Ask him to please try find other places to partake in his activity or you will contact the building management.

If it happens again, leave a 2nd letter, letting him know it's still a problem. 

Still causing issues after a 2nd warning, then report him to management. 



 I would HIGHLY recommend having a VISITING friend slip the letter under the door. You don't want him to know it's you.

Another option is to call the police if you don't want to deal with the typing or printing. 

In my town you end up with a $100-$200 fine. 

It's always best to handle these things in a civilized manner instead of turning to the boys in blue.

Good luckie


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. Ironically, the police station is our back yard. 

These fish just don't want me to win though. Tank Two which still has two fish has been healthy and now today I see white strings sticking up above their eyes, one above each eye. Just one little short string each. They otherwise seem healthy. Is it another fungus? Parasite?


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Well I've got a disease thread going for tank two (it looks like they might have a parasite like anchor worms, and possible ick forming)

Tank one with the lone blue guy healed up after the fungal infection. His fins are nice and open again, but today I noticed his gills look like they might be burned. He always had red marks on his gills on the same spot on both sides (the other blue one always has too), so I thought they were just markings. Today, though, they looked more like open sores or burns. They looked like scraped skin. I tested for ammonia and it looks like it's .25, but everytime/anytime/anywhere I've used the ammonia strip test, its always looked like .25 so it might not be accurate. Maybe more experienced eyes could help?










He's been acting really happy. I filled his tank with plants and he's always swimming around. When someone goes up to the tank he swims right over and looks back at you.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Have you tried testing your tap water for ammonia?


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

When I tested my well water at home from the faucet it turned the same color that looks like .25 and the same happened here at my apartment with the tap water. Anytime throughout the course of water changes it's never been a different color. :\


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> When I tested my well water at home from the faucet it turned the same color that looks like .25 and the same happened here at my apartment with the tap water. Anytime throughout the course of water changes it's never been a different color. :\


Are you using strips or a liquid test kit?


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

It's the strips, which I've found out are less accurate, so I want to go get a liquid test but I haven't been able to yet.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Just went out and got the API Master Test Kit.

Here is fresh Tap Water: 










Looks like it's at 0 to me?

Here is current water from the tank:










Looks like .25?

The fresh tap is definitely more gold tinted than the tank water, but it's very slight.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

I'd say tap is 0 and your tank water is somewhere between 0 and .25, so very low.


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Okay, so it would be more likely that if his gills have sores, that its bacterial and not ammonia burn? If he even has sores :|

And I just noticed your sig, I'm sorry about your puppy dog


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Schwielala said:


> Okay, so it would be more likely that if his gills have sores, that its bacterial and not ammonia burn? If he even has sores :|
> 
> And I just noticed your sig, I'm sorry about your puppy dog


I can't say for sure what it is, but it's defenitely not being caused by ammonia, unless it was there before you got him.

Thank you. I miss him


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Hey everyone, hopefully this isn't considered necro-posting yet.

I have another question, although before I ask I can say that I finally named my little guys. Tank two has been dubbed Batman and Robin because one of them is pretty big and dark and the other one is small and red like the little sidekick. I wanted to give my lone guy in tank one a cute name so I compromised with Spidey short for Spiderman since he's red and blue.

So now my question! Spidey has been doing well, but last week I noticed a white film forming at the surface of the water. Then he had a small hole in his tail fin. I cleaned out the tank and put him in AQ salt for a couple days and his tail healed, but the white stuff has formed again. I don't know what it is. When I disturb the surface it spreads out in the water like white debris.


You can see the white pieces over the dark plant.









And when I scooped him out, it got on the cup like slime


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

possibly a protein film? usully you can pull it off by laying a piece of paper towl on top then quickly taking it off


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## Schwielala (Aug 27, 2012)

Would anything in particular cause it, because it's never happened until now and only in the one tank.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

hmm... usually food..


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