# Newbie questions about goldfish



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Okay, so far, I've only ever had bettas, and some small "red-cap" goldfish when I was a child (I'm sure they have a proper name, but I was six...I have no idea what it was). And we kept those poor goldfish in a 5 gallon hex tank...those poor fish. 

Now I know better...and I know that goldfish can get BIG. 

I like Oranda's, fantails (both gold and calico), and black moors. So, these are not the really huge versions...but they still get to 6-8 inches per what I've read. 

So...if I'm looking to have five of these fish (just seemed like a nice variety of colors, similar body types, and a reasonable number to keep them occupied), various of types listed above...what size tank do I really need to have? I've read all sorts of different numbers, but I wanted to hear from people who actually have these fish and keep them successfully/correctly. 

I'm hoping to keep a tank right about 50 gals, as bigger is just, well, SO BIG...  I've found some nice 46 and 50g bowfronts on craigslist, but before I purchase anything, I really want to know what I'm getting into. 
Will a 46 or 50g work, or for this fish load/bioload (I've read that goldfish have a very heavy bioload and require a lot of filtration) do I really need to get something bigger? 

Thanks for the information!


----------



## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

A 46 or 50g will work, if you have a bunch of live plants the bioload won't be an issue it will be more about space for the fish to swim in so I would say maybe 6-8 total, this is my best opinion I do not keep goldfish but I do have some pretty big catfish I have 3 in my 46g bowfront with a ton of community peaceful fish, according to aquaadvisor I am 212% stocked but with al the live plants I have in the tank I get 0-0-0 when I test the water and I only do 10% change every other week or so more out of habit I have let it go for a month with the same 0-0-0 test results, plants are like magic you feed the fish, the fish feed the plants with all their poop and such, and the plants keep the water clean for them, in a few weeks I am going to go filterless so the plants will grow even faster


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Were it me..I would look to 75 gal tank for five fish capable of 6 inches and that produce copius amount's of waste.Larger the volume of water,,the more dilution capability it has, and water quality is easier to maintain with larger tank's between water changes.
Many of the goldfish will happily eat live plant's but sword plant's,anubia,might do OK.
Water sprite is fast grower so it may be able to withstand some nibbling by these fish.
I would want a filter capable of filtering 6 to 8 times the volume of water the tank hold's each hour.
Example.. 55 gallons X 8 = 440 GPH. 
Fish may do fine when small in smaller tank,but would appreciate the largest tank you can offer as they grow to adult size.(water quality easier to manage)
New life spectrum pellet food would be my choice for these largely herbivorous fish.


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I would not get more than 3, 4 max in a tank that small. I know ~50 gallons seems big, but it's really not. Like was said, goldfish and plants don't mix so make sure you have a large filtration system. I would highly recommend a canister. And I second the recommendation of NLS food. Too, I agree that you should be looking for a 75 or 90 gallon.


----------



## PeetaTheBetta (Apr 6, 2013)

I would get a 75gal. My sister has a 40 gallon with two goldfish. you would need a filter with around 600 gph if you got a 75gallon. if you still went with a 46 or 50gallon I would get maybe 3-4. My sister's goldfish do not seem to bother Anubias plants too much. She uses NLS food.


----------



## THIbetta (Aug 27, 2013)

Goldfish need 20-15 gallons per fish and you need 10x gph filtration. So on a 55 gallon tank you need 550GPH


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

This is great information, thanks so much!

I thought I'd probably need something bigger...okay, this project is on hold for now.  I need to head to the store and see what these larger tanks actually look like...so I can have a better idea of how much space we're talking about.  

And bummer about them eating plants...dang.  I was hoping to do a really big, nice, NPT with additional filtration...but if they're going to eat them all...LOL...maybe not.  

Thanks so much for the information!!


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The space required is 48 inches by 18 inches for the 75, 90 and 110.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

If you want to get 5-6 goldfish I would shoot for a 75 gal or larger tank. Keeping 4 goldfish in a 55 gal is pushing it in terms of both space and nutrient load. I had to do 75% or larger water changes a week to keep the nitrates where they should be when I had that level of stocking. With goldfish larger is always better. Go as large as you possibly can from the get go. I made the mistake of not doing that and I will need to upgrade. 

You did have the breed name right with redcap orandas. I have one right now. Cute little fish. 

As for orandas, moors, and fantails not getting large, you've been mislead. Those are the largest of the fancy goldfish. Fed good food (which NLS is) and in good housing, they get 8+ inches. Genetics has a bit to do with how large goldfish get, but unless you buy from a breeder who can give you an approximation on how large fish from that line get, you have to assume orandas will get big. Because they do.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Ahh, good to know about the sizes! I was just going by what I'd read on the internet...and we all know how reliable that can be.  

Are there any that stay "smaller", relatively speaking, of course!


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Mini goldfish would be a better choice.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Blue Fish said:


> Ahh, good to know about the sizes! I was just going by what I'd read on the internet...and we all know how reliable that can be.
> 
> Are there any that stay "smaller", relatively speaking, of course!


Really depends on the line. I had a ranchu that came from a small line and never got larger than 5 inches. But I have seen other ranch push 8 inches. Ryukin tend to be shorter, but they have really thick bodies. Generally the smaller breeds of goldfish tend to be the most modified ones like the bubble eyes and celestials. They are also the most sensitive.


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

i would say 20 gal for 1 fish


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

litelboyblu said:


> i would say 20 gal for 1 fish


How big are your goldfish?


----------



## THIbetta (Aug 27, 2013)

Goldfish NO MATTER what size need 20 gallons per fish. 

Smaller goldfish are pearlscales but they still can grow 6+ inches, and still need 10x filtration. And they aren't for beginners. I am a member on kokos goldfish forum, and I am wanting to delete my account on here. Kokos knows about bettas as well.


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

jaysee said:


> How big are your goldfish?





THIbetta said:


> Goldfish NO MATTER what size need 20 gallons per fish.
> .


You misunderstood the nature of my question. A 20 gallon is not appropriate for a goldfish. This "20 gallons per fish" business is all well and good, AS LONG AS the tank is sufficiently large to begin with. Based on my experience with them, I would not keep goldfish in less than a 4 foot long tank. NOW, a 55 gallon tank could support up to 3 goldfish, which falls in line with the 20 per fish "guideline". However, people need to understand that all these "rules" have limitations.

Besides, "20 gallons" is a completely useless measurement. The actual number of gallons is irrelevant when it comes to stocking. What is important are the dimensions of the tank.


----------



## THIbetta (Aug 27, 2013)

In a 20 gallon tank, you can have 1 goldfish. It is NOT !!! the length, width, height of the tank although it is recommended to have a shallow tank with lots of surface area. 20 gallons per fish. Simple.


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

jaysee said:


> You misunderstood the nature of my question. A 20 gallon is not appropriate for a goldfish. This "20 gallons per fish" business is all well and good, AS LONG AS the tank is sufficiently large to begin with. Based on my experience with them, I would not keep goldfish in less than a 4 foot long tank. NOW, a 55 gallon tank could support up to 3 goldfish, which falls in line with the 20 per fish "guideline". However, people need to understand that all these "rules" have limitations.
> 
> Besides, "20 gallons" is a completely useless measurement. The actual number of gallons is irrelevant when it comes to stocking. What is important are the dimensions of the tank.


well i used to have goldfish and i still want another one! i love orandas! mine grew up to at least 6 inches =D


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

jaysee said:


> You misunderstood the nature of my question. A 20 gallon is not appropriate for a goldfish. This "20 gallons per fish" business is all well and good, AS LONG AS the tank is sufficiently large to begin with. Based on my experience with them, I would not keep goldfish in less than a 4 foot long tank. NOW, a 55 gallon tank could support up to 3 goldfish, which falls in line with the 20 per fish "guideline". However, people need to understand that all these "rules" have limitations.
> 
> Besides, "20 gallons" is a completely useless measurement. The actual number of gallons is irrelevant when it comes to stocking. What is important are the dimensions of the tank.


and btw i meant 20 gallons a fish =)


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

THIbetta said:


> In a 20 gallon tank, you can have 1 goldfish. It is NOT !!! the length, width, height of the tank although it is recommended to have a shallow tank with lots of surface area. 20 gallons per fish. Simple.


Anyone who thinks that has clearly never kept a large goldfish. Plain and simple. Tank dimensions determine volume, but more importantly they determine whether or not a fish has enough room to swim. As an example, a 20 long, 20 high and 20 extra high are all very different sizes, each more inappropriate than the next. In any event, go enjoy that other forum.


Oh and another thing - goldfish are very social creatures that do best with other goldfish. They are not bettas. I would NEVER suggest just keeping one.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Jaysee brings up an excellent point. Goldfish are HIGHLY social fish. After owning groups of them for 7 years I can clearly attest to that. Goldfish simply shouldn't be kept alone. And while they can survive in a 20 gal tank (again I know this from experience), they don't thrive there because they are alone. They don't get the social interaction they need. In my case I kept a rescue quarantined in a 20 gal for a couple of months because well she is a rescue and carries certain risks. The water stayed clean with weekly water changes, but I see a MAJOR change in character now that she is with a group. She doesn't dart away when someone walks passed the tank. She is much faster to come to the top for dinner. I have three goldfish in a 55 gal tank, and they all move together. 

So while the 20 gal per fish is a good guideline it should be taken into account with other goldfish needs such as social nature of these fish.


----------



## THIbetta (Aug 27, 2013)

Yes and it is true that goldfish ate highly social fish, but I am just saying that 20 gallons per fish is the rule.


----------



## THIbetta (Aug 27, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Anyone who thinks that has clearly never kept a large goldfish. Plain and simple. Tank dimensions determine volume, but more importantly they determine whether or not a fish has enough room to swim. As an example, a 20 long, 20 high and 20 extra high are all very different sizes, each more inappropriate than the next. In any event, go enjoy that other forum.
> 
> 
> Oh and another thing - goldfish are very social creatures that do best with other goldfish. They are not bettas. I would NEVER suggest just keeping one.


I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with two goldfish thank you very much. And I know that it is best to have a shallow tank with lots of surface area. And I have kept large goldfish. I have bred them.


----------



## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

plants that work well with goldies ime are; anubius,swords ,java fern,red tiger lotus. add some duck weed for edibles.very good for digestion. nls is good food so is saki-hikari and repashys soilent green gel food.go with pool filter sand at 1 inch depth or bare bottom. gravel or river rock hold too many places for build up.gravel adds choking hazards. fancies require 20 gallons minimum per fish for long term housing.long shallow tanks are best for proper gas exchange. 10x filteration is highly recommended. an airstone is also recommended as the goldfish and bacterial colonies compete for oxygen are both are heavy consumers. good luck.


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Whatever you say thibetta...



THIbetta said:


> In a 20 gallon tank, you can have 1 goldfish.





THIbetta said:


> Yes and it is true that goldfish ate highly social fish, but I am just saying that 20 gallons per fish is the rule.


If you in fact know goldfish are highly social, then why on earth would you suggest keeping 1 in a 20 gallon?? That's terrible advice. You should spend less time following the letter of the "rule" and more time trying to understand the nature of it. With experience you'll learn not to just blindly apply "rules" to things. There's so much more to it.


----------



## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

we are on these forums to either assist or seek help. many people here use kokos forum also. myself included. i also use goldfish keepers. on all of these forums i have seen both good and bad recommendations. none of them are the beat all solution. the thing that really irks me is a forum snob. you are making kokos look bad through affiliation.not to mention yourself. i wouldn't take advice from someone who is more concerned with arguing and acting snobbish rather than helping. be part of the solution not the problem please. lets work together people.


----------



## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

sandybottom said:


> plants that work well with goldies ime are; anubius,swords ,java fern,red tiger lotus. add some duck weed for edibles.very good for digestion. nls is good food so is saki-hikari and repashys soilent green gel food.go with pool filter sand at 1 inch depth or bare bottom. gravel or river rock hold too many places for build up.gravel adds choking hazards. fancies require 20 gallons minimum per fish for long term housing.long shallow tanks are best for proper gas exchange. 10x filteration is highly recommended. an airstone is also recommended as the goldfish and bacterial colonies compete for oxygen are both are heavy consumers. good luck.


I agree with all of the above.
Should note however, that most of the goldie's purchased are small,so they may do OK in smaller tank's for maybe a year.(50 gal minimum)
But as mentioned,,,the larger tank's will house the fish through juvenile stage up to and including Adult fish.
Is where most people fail these fish.They begin with too small a tank, and never seem to get around to providing larger quarter's, and as the fish grow,,they produce more waste ,which foul's the water in small tank much faster than larger volume of water.
Fish become sickly due to too much waste input (ie poop,food),and not enough export of same(water changes).
Larger volume of water is ALWAY'S gonna be more forgiving than smaller volume while trying to provide clean enviornment for the fish.
One might also consider that 10X filtration for fancy fish can result in torn,tattered looking fin's for those fish with lot's of finnage.
Six to eight times the filtration ,and maybe a large sponge filter would be a consideration(for me) while fish are small, and increased or redundant filtration in term's of GPH, as the fish get closer to adult size and increased waste is produced.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

1077 said:


> I agree with all of the above.
> Should note however, that most of the goldie's purchased are small,so they may do OK in smaller tank's for maybe a year.(50 gal minimum)
> But as mentioned,,,the larger tank's will house the fish through juvenile stage up to and including Adult fish.
> Is where most people fail these fish.They begin with too small a tank, and never seem to get around to providing larger quarter's, and as the fish grow,,they produce more waste ,which foul's the water in small tank much faster than larger volume of water.
> ...


I had wondered about the high filtration flow and those delicate fins. I'm a BIG fan of sponge filters, and I can definitely add a giant one in there in addition to the other filtration methods. 
I also agree that I would not ever want to house a fish alone long-term...even my bettas have divided tanks because they're *happier* when they have interactions with another fish, even through a divider. It sounds like I'll be on the lookout for a 75 gal for 5 goldfish, with a couple of heavy-duty filters and a large sponge filter as well. 
I'll check out the other forum as well, I always think that the more information I have, the better off I am. Even if some of it is wrong, I can learn more by experiencing lots of sources and then weeding out the extraneous information. 

Thanks again to everyone for these *very* insightful responses!


----------



## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

i use canister filters with 10x filteration. i just point the spray bar toward the back wall.no problems what so ever.fins look great.


----------



## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

sandybottom said:


> i use canister filters with 10x filteration. i just point the spray bar toward the back wall.no problems what so ever.fins look great.


Thats what I used too, but I didn't mess with the spray bars. Never had an issue with fins.


----------

