# WHY ME?? I think my guy has SBD, but i don't know! =[



## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

i am having the WORST luck with bettas lately. If this guy dies on me, will be 6 in 3 weeks and will be the death of my love for bettas. I have fasted this guy for 2 days and NOW he is BLOATED.. like REALLY REALLY bloated!! He also can not stay up right. He flops over to one side and then thrashes to get upright and can not swim down at all. He hovers under the surface of the water and also has a long string hanging from his top fin ( i think it is actually part of his fin b/c its not white or fuzzy like columnaris, its actually the same color as the fin). I feel so bad for him, he looks like he is suffering and i kind of hope mother nature takes over and ends his suffering stress. I just do NOT get how is bloated after being fasted for 2 days. i THOUGHT fasting was good for bettas??? Now here is the tank conditions so i dont get asked 20,000 questions:

Temp: 78 Water changes: 100% every 2 days. ALL water lvls are fine. Has not been fed in 2 days. Bought from a pet store on monday. None of his gravel, plants or other things where exposed to any chemicals just steaming hot water. plants passed panty hose test. tank size is 2.5 gal by himself.
I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW! I have a friend at USF who has had a betta in her COLD dorm in a bowl that is a decoration bowl not even made for fish and that fish is lucky to have a water change once a week and she has had this guy since august! and he is happy as a pig in slop. I give my bettas optimal conditions and they ALL die on me =[ well the last 3 weeks they have! FRUSTRATED beyond belief

Here is a pic of what he looks like:








well when this one dies, i am DONE with bettas for GOOD, well unless my friend decides to buy me another one out of pity ( that's how i got this guy )


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Fasting is good for bettas. Some bettas just have problems with SBD. I know Dramaqueen had one guy with SBD and he had it for 7 months or something. Try feeding him so daphnia. 

Sorry about your little guy, but he'll probably recover.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

what is daphia? and he looks so miserable like this, i hate seeing this! I have had the WORST luck with bettas in the past 3 weeks, its ridiculous. Back when i was not educated, i had bettas live for 2-3 yrs. Now that i am more educated, i have bettas live 1-3 weeks!! Just saying... not speculation or pointing fingers, please NO ONE take this wrong way and have me banned it again. Just seems odd that now that i spoil my bettas and give them prime conditions, they all die!  Like i said, i hope mother nature kicks in, this is no one to live and has to be stressing the crap out of my poor guy.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

and what if he doesnt? that means death right? =[, would not surprise me. I just lost my ENTIRE sorority last week at the same time!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I am so sorry about your bad luck with bettas. I wish I had some answers for you but I don't. What you're going through has happened to other people, one person in particular who has left the forum. She never did figure out what happened to all her fish. It may have been something in her water that was beyond her control and nothing to do with how often she changed the water, what conditioner she used, etc. Like I said, I wish I had some answers for you but I don't.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

so that's the, the end? their is no hope/way to treat for SBD? figures.....


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You can try daphnia if he'll eat it.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

and what is that? and what if he doesnt? is that it? He is a goner? WHY DID THIS HAPPEN? please anyone, SOMETHING.. what caused my guy to go from normal to bloated like that??


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

is their NO cure for this? If not and he is a goner, what is a humane way to put him out so he does not have to suffer anymore? I just do not know what to do. I am so sick of losing bettas! Like i said, back when i was uneducated, i NEVER lost bettas like this...what on earth is going on??? Bad pet store, sick to begin with? WHAT? will anyone tell how to treat for SBD or if their is anyway to help him through this?


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

I would say he was sick to begin with..

I really don't think there is a need to euthanize him, when a fish has SBD, they aren't really really suffering, and they usually have a good life anyways.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Swim bladder disorder isn't always fatal. I had one that had it for 7 months and he's fine now. I added daphnia to his diet and somehow he got better on his own. The daphnia may have helped or it may not have, I'll never know for sure.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

well... does he actually have that? I mean he is SUPER bloated behind his 2 small fins as you can see in the picture. Well how exactly can his life be good when he cant even swim lower than surface level and he fights just to stay upright =[ that's not a good life, that's awful... i just do not get it. I AM AN AWFUL BETTA FISH OWNER. I do EVERYTHING their is to pamper/ give my bettas the best life and they die on me. Like i said, my friend at USF has that betta that is still alive! How?? ugh...


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> Swim bladder disorder isn't always fatal. I had one that had it for 7 months and he's fine now. I added daphnia to his diet and somehow he got better on his own. The daphnia may have helped or it may not have, I'll never know for sure.


what IS this stuff and where do i get it?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

*bump* i am desperate here... i feel like no one cares and no one really wants to help me =[ i guess a fish actually has to be dying to get help around here =[


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## reaperss06 (Jan 31, 2010)

I know what your going through, I had fish die on me with no help at all as well. My problem was outdated food which no expert ever told me could be a problem. I don't think yours has that problem but you can check your food to see if it has expired.



Daphnia I think you can get at a pet store or online, I would think anyway. I honestly google a lot of things when I have to wait a long time to get an answer.


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## kingb (Dec 7, 2009)

sorry to hear bout your betta Maul, i hope he gets better.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

well he is not bloated from food. I have been fasting him for 2 days now =[ and thank you for understanding where i am coming from. i am not blaming the forum or anyone on here.. it is my choice to take or not take the advice given. But that fact that when i knew just the basics if that, my past bettas lived for a LONG time..now i am lucky if get a couple weeks out of them =[ =[ =[ =[


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

You should be able to find frozen daphnia at any good LFS or even the big chain stores. If the disorder progresses and the betta tends to sink rather than float, you might want to lower the water level so that it's easier for the fish to reach the surface for air. Try the daphnia out for a few days and see what happens. I've seen bettas that were much more bloated than yours, so it's definitely not the end of the road just yet.


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## soleilvie (Mar 20, 2010)

I am not experienced with bettas (I have yet to start a fishless cycle of my tank for the first time) but I did a quick search and found that a bloated betta can be a symptom of a disease called Dropsy. Obviously your betta is not bloated from excessive food (you mentioned fasting your betta), so perhaps dropsy may be the problem? It seems that it is a disease that affects the kidneys. Likely, you did nothing wrong; your betta was sick to begin with. 

I have no idea if this is what your fish has, that's just what I found from a quick Google search. I would wait about a week and see if anything improves. I have no idea about the daphnia, but it can't hurt so perhaps it's worth a shot. Keep us updated and don't give up!

This page is very helpful. It has a list of common betta diseases, symptoms, and treatments.


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## aunt kymmie (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm not sure if this was covered previously (I may have missed it) but before you did the two day fast EXACTLY what did his diet consist of? How many times per day and how much per feeding?? 
Bettas are also prone to suffering from constipation so this can be contributing to the problem. Nothing like a case of constipation to make your gut swell.
As batman advises, try lowering the water level and if it was me (and it's not) I would fast one more day and find some frozen daphnia. Alot of people will suggest peas (mashed with the outer skin removed) but I prefer daphnia as it's much more a part of what their natural diet would consist of. I feed dahpnia twice a week as a preventative and never overfeed my betta. He always gets fed in the morning and occasionally he goes without dinner. 
Good luck and I hope your fish recovers soon.


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

soleilvie said:


> I am not experienced with bettas (I have yet to start a fishless cycle of my tank for the first time) but I did a quick search and found that a bloated betta can be a symptom of a disease called Dropsy. Obviously your betta is not bloated from excessive food (you mentioned fasting your betta), so perhaps dropsy may be the problem? It seems that it is a disease that affects the kidneys. Likely, you did nothing wrong; your betta was sick to begin with.
> 
> I have no idea if this is what your fish has, that's just what I found from a quick Google search. I would wait about a week and see if anything improves. I have no idea about the daphnia, but it can't hurt so perhaps it's worth a shot. Keep us updated and don't give up!
> 
> This page is very helpful. It has a list of common betta diseases, symptoms, and treatments.


I don't think it's dropsy. Dropsy results in a pronounced "pineconing" effect where the fish's scales protrude exactly like a pine cone.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

UPDATE: he has fully recovered! Woke up this morning and his bloating was 100% gone and he's swimming alllll over!!! I am fasting him one more day. I'd call that a miracle! All I did/could do last night was Toss in some salt lowered the water and went to bed with little hope and POOF he is all better and the string is also gone! Thankyou everyone for bearing me and helping. Also for those who asked about his diet. I bought him Monday, he got fed 2 small pellets. Tues morn and night 1 small pellet, wed thur and today nothing. Couldn't have been constipation. Truely a miracle!!


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm glad your betta is better! Sometimes they can get constipated easily so just watch out how much you feed him and keep an eye on his stomach. If you have an LPS close by I would still get some daphnia and encoporate it into his food regiment so it doesn't happen again.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that he's better.


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## kingb (Dec 7, 2009)

awesome news Maul. im glad your little buddie is all better!!!! :-D


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you all! Should I fast him one more day? Also, should I go ahead and do a 100% water change tonight just to be on the safe? He had a stressful week, just don't want to add to it. One more thing, that stuff I was reccomened to give him, how and how often should he get it and for how long? Thank you all


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

So glad he is better.....these guys are real bad about getting constipated and then the duct can get inflamed and make it harder for them to pass the stool and if the edema continues an infection can happen in the duct, also sometimes these guy can be born with short or deformed swim bladders making them more prone to constipation and swim bladder related issues.
The best natural treatment I have found was Epsom salt 1tsp/gal, the epsom salt reduces swelling and work as a laxative, it also has an antibacterial/fungal properties too, I like to treat while in QT and make 100% daily water changes along with the epsom salt, hold all feedings until they pass the stool/plug or in the cases of swim bladder issues until the swelling goes down and they are swimming better, treatment usually take 3-10 days depending on what is wrong and how bad it is.
Don't give up.........and as far as your friend and their betta....remember there is a big difference in a fish that thrives-vs-survives........

I would fast him for one more day and then fed a small amount of food every other day, stay on top of the daily 50% water changes for a few more days....


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## reaperss06 (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm glad your guy came out of it, it's always good to hear that, especially when it's an odd occurance.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

UPDATE: My guy is doing wonderful! Just did a full water change and he is flying and zipping all around like he was before! I am going to start feeding him again tomorrow. I think 3 days of no food is enough for my guy haha His bloated look is 100% gone and he can swim up down left right with no problems!


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

something i just do not get nor does anyone else on here is how he was NOT bloated... i fasted him for 2 days and then he becomes bloated out over no where....then it goes away over night out of no where... so we can all rule out SBD...but how in the world would he have become constipated? Before i fasted him, i under fed him if anything... i mean i have read what people feed their bettas on here and it makes me look like i NEVER feed mine haha... so what caused my betta to be bloated for a day and lose the ability to swim much at all? who knows, am i glad it's over and he is normal sized again? YES!


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

That would depend on what you fed him and exactly how much. Some foods expand more when waterlogged (flakes and freeze-dried come to mind) and even just a little can turn into a LOT inside your betta's stomach!


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

like i said, based what i have read around here, their is NO way he was over fed. I got him monday from a crappy pet store ( which means he def was not fed enough and he was not even bloated ) i fed him 2 small pellets that night one pellet on tues morn and night food at all wed-fri and this morning i fed him one pellet. So i really really doubt i am over feeding him. IMO, he was under fed if anything. He is not actually a small betta. He is the biggest i have ever owned. But i am just glad he is fine now. He is one cool looking fish. I am going to borrow a camera so i can get better pix than the iphone ones i took haha


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Hm, could've been a parasitical issue, or internal parasite issue, too. It's not always food that causes bloating. Like dropsy, you see bloating, but obviously you aren't feeding him. Or food-lag as well. 

Also, to iamntbatman, I _believe_ pineconing is a symptom that heavily indicates dropsy, and is a very common symptom, however is not present in 100% cases of dropsy. Sometimes it's just heavy bloating, or who knows what else. We'll never know for sure, though.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Maybe it was ammonia poisoning.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

no was not ammonia, my water was tested and is fine =]


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Wasn't aware ammonia poisoning could cause this, actually.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

UPDATE: ARE YOU SERIOUS??? i am SO MAD right now.. My guy was fine ALL day and the past couple days. He was fasted for nearly 4 days. I just fed him ONE pellet like 30 mins ago or so and now he is BLOATED AGAIN!!! He can't swim lower than surface level and is flopping over to one side again!! This is ridiculous!!!


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

It sounds like he has SBD.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

how? how can SBD just go away like that and then come back after being fed ONE pellet? i am so confused


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

He could easily have injured his swim bladder and you don't necessarily have to see a bump. The main signs are them not being able to go down and they kind of "bob" back up to the top and they have trouble staying vertical.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

how did this bump completely disappear and then come back? =[


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm not sure, he could've been bloated too. How does his poop look? Is it normal?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

how can it come back? the bloating was GONE and now is back after ONE pellet after 4 days of no food, HOW??


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

BettaxFishxCrazy said:


> I'm not sure, he could've been bloated too. How does his poop look? Is it normal?


But, see he WASNT.. i know what he looked like before and after and their was HUGE difference and now he is bloated again and i dont know, i dont study fish poop haha


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

Ok, we're trying to help you. Research it yourself if you're going to attack everything that we say to you.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

uhm i am NOT attacking, let's make that CLEAR... i am telling you all EXACTLY what has happened and no one seems to believe me, that's the vibe i am getting here... He was fasted for nearly 4 days, i feed him ONE pellet and the bloating comes back... how much more simple can i make it? How in the world can it be SBD if it went away once and now its back again? From my OWN research, SBD, does not just come out of no where like that, go away the next day and come back a few days later... sorry


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

btw, PLEASE do enlighten me as to WHERE i attacked anyone in this thread? Because i did not... so please do not accuse me of that, thank you


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I had a male that would always bloat when I fed him and I never figured out why it happened because he was healthy as a horse other wise. I think I made a thread about it, let me see if I can find it to see what people said. My guy was never as bloated as the fish in your picture though. The reason why I asked about the poop is if it's parasites than he would be pooping white stringy mucus. Let me find the thread...


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

wow.. so i get accused of "attacking" when ANYONE can feel free to go read this entire thread and clearly see i never did and i am still left in the dark as to what in the world is going on with my betta =[ AWESOME


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

BettaxFishxCrazy said:


> I had a male that would always bloat when I fed him and I never figured out why it happened because he was healthy as a horse other wise. I think I made a thread about it, let me see if I can find it to see what people said. My guy was never as bloated as the fish in your picture though. The reason why I asked about the poop is if it's parasites than he would be pooping white stringy mucus. Let me find the thread...


hmm, well what would cause a betta to get bloated from one pellet, especially after being fasted for days? was he already sick when i got him?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

DarthMaul, you really should come down a little bit. You're definitely not attacking anyone, but it feels like despite the information we're giving if we don't directly answer your question, it seems you feel the question has been ignored. 

This is definitely an internal problem, and internal issues with bettas are definitely one of the hardest things to cure...IMO anyways. I agree, if there's white poop, that's some kind of indication of internal parasite. Did you soak the pellet before hand? Did you try feeding something else? 

Do you have any access to garlic, and/or garlic juice?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

DarthMaul said:


> hmm, well what would cause a betta to get bloated from one pellet, especially after being fasted for days? was he already sick when i got him?


I would point my fingers at an internal parasite of some kind, but right now, it still could be anything. Might even be the food, who knows. Make sure you pre soak too.


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm sorry, you probably weren't attacking, I was just frustrated because I can't help you out. I know how frustrating it can be to have a fish sick and you can't figure out what it is. I found the thread. 

I really have no idea why he would get bloated like that. My guy would get bloated so easily, I would fast him and than feed him just 1 pellet and he would still get bloated. I even started soaking the pellets which helps them digest it easier and he still got bloated. I had an internal parasite outbreak and he passed away. I have no idea who carried the parasites which is very annoying. Parasites can be sneaky things and could show signs 6 months after they've been infected.

Here it is: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30299


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Not to be scaring anyone off, but dropsy is quite the internal disease isn't it? Its extremely complex from what I've been experiencing... so you might want to take that into consideration... (but do not freak out.) 

Gonna go eat dinner, hope everything goes okay for you.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

hmm.. yes i do soak and yes i do have access to some =] and no his poop is not white or stringy...hmmm i am at loss, but thank you for all the help and suggestions. All i can do is hope, again and see what happens =[

UPDATE: His bloating has gone done some. So, i think that def. eliminates SBD... so he gets clogged that easily from one pellet, this sucks =[ i feel bad for him


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

What pellets do you use? I use Wardley's and they're very large so I have to cut them in half. You could always try cutting or breaking it in half and see if that works. Their stomachs are the size of their eye so it's very small.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

i have 2: Wardley's advanced nutrition and some smaller pellet in a heart shaped packet. I also have FD bloodworms in my arsenal, but sadly, looks like this guy wont be allowed to have any =[ =[


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah, I'd fast him for another day or two. Don't worry, bettas can survive with no food for a couple weeks so you aren't starving him. I'd just keep experimenting with different things and see how it works. I hope he gets better!


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

the wardley's pellets are small, my fingers are to big to break it in half haha, what do i do =[


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

BettaxFishxCrazy said:


> Yeah, I'd fast him for another day or two. Don't worry, bettas can survive with no food for a couple weeks so you aren't starving him. I'd just keep experimenting with different things and see how it works. I hope he gets better!


 i guess i have no choice =[ i just hate starving my guy, i know i would not like that =[, but that's just me and my opinion. Also should i get that stuff that starts with a D?


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

Lol a knife should work or even little scissors.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

aha very true, i hope he does not get bloated from a half pellet...man, can he even survive on that LITTLE food providing he does not bloat from half? =[


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I would get the daphnia. It will help with constipation. I've heard you can get it at Petsmart. Some people incorporate it into the fishes regular meal feeding it once or twice a week. Once you start feeding him again, you can PM me if you want and I can suggest a couple things you can do with his feeding habits. The daphnia will definitely help if he gets constipated easily.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

ya, that so called fish expert manager had NO idea what i was talking about... well when i get it, do i just feed him that, or that and a half a pellet? i am so worried i am going to mess this up. I dont wont him to continue to get bloated, it has to be stressing him out so much, which is NOT good for fish contrary to popular belief.


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah, stressing out is definitely not a good thing. I have personally never used it but dramaqueen uses it and I'm pretty sure puts it into her fishes regular food regiment. I would ask her about it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, I feed my fish daphnia once a week. I fast them on Sundays and feed daphnia on Mondays.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

i will try that drama queen, if the half of pellet does not bloat him. I gotta figure out what he can and can not eat. I now know 1 full pellet bloats him =[ =[


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I may have missed it if you answered this before but have you tried soaking the pellets before feeding? Also, do you soak the freeze dried food you're feeding him? Freeze dried food can cause digestive problems if it's not pre soaked. Sorry if you already answered these questions.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

i do pre-soak..but this guy has never had any FD and looks like he may never will =[ since monday, he has had 6 small pellets =[


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> I may have missed it if you answered this before but have you tried soaking the pellets before feeding? Also, do you soak the freeze dried food you're feeding him? Freeze dried food can cause digestive problems if it's not pre soaked. Sorry if you already answered these questions.


UPDATE: his bloating has once again mysteriously vanished over night! His poo looks fine. His swimming is normal!  I have to rule out SBD, it can't be. But it looks like I have some work to do to make sure he doesn't bung up after everytime I feed him.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If he is bloating every time he is fed and then having problems swimming, it most likely is the swim bladder, either he has an infection in the duct or he has a deformed swim bladder, shortened swim bladder this can happen as a fry and they can recover only for it to return as an adult.
Next time this happens add 1tsp/gal epsom salt, raise the temp to 80-82F, he may even need antibiotic if it is an infection in the duct area.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> If he is bloating every time he is fed and then having problems swimming, it most likely is the swim bladder, either he has an infection in the duct or he has a deformed swim bladder, shortened swim bladder this can happen as a fry and they can recover only for it to return as an adult.
> Next time this happens add 1tsp/gal epsom salt, raise the temp to 80-82F, he may even need antibiotic if it is an infection in the duct area.


Wellthat is what happens after he is fed, but then it goes away. Besides the warm water salt, what do I use to treat?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Chronic swim bladder issues I treat with Epsom salt 1tsp/gal, daily 50% water changes, warmer water for 10 days every 30 days. I also change their diet to live foods and my homemade food, feeding very small amounts 1 time per day every other day.
Depending on what size tank the fish is in I also increase their regular water change schedule...example...I normally do 50% water changes twice a week on my 1-6g betta tanks, for chronic swim bladder I will increase that to every other day 50% water changes along with the 10d per month of daily water changes and Epsom salt dosage.
I only treat with natural treatment, rarely do I use the OTC medication, however, the sound of what is going on with your fish he may have an advanced case and the duct my be infected, treating him with a broad spectrum antibiotic may be needed at this point. 
The Epsom salt will help with symptoms by reducing the edema/swelling and help him pass stool easier, epson salt also has an antibacterial/fungal properties but it is limited once the pathogens have advanced.


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

Awww... how stressful. The epsom salt is a good idea but it can sometimes be stressful. It might be something you can try though. I gave my little guy tiny bits of the inside of a frozen pea and it helped clean out his system and he is getting better from his swim bladder problem.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

sorry, but i am seriously struggling with HOW this is SBD... when i do not feed him, he does NOT bloat... when i do feed him, which is next to NOTHING... he bloats for a few hours, has a hard time swimming and then it goes away when he poops ( his poo looks normal for those who are going to ask ) Maybe an expert can explain to me how this is SBD? He was bloated for a few hours again last night, but it went away over night and he still looks fine. Also, i am hearing 2 different methods to treat SBD... people come on, you have to see why i sometimes get frustrated... i am being told natural is the best way and avoid meds at all cost and i am also being told meds are the way to go. I refuse to pick one over the other and kill my fish b/c i chose one over the other. Sorry, but it CANT be both, so which is ACTUALLY better? Can anyone honestly blame me for getting frustrated?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

also he has NO problems with swimming when he is not bloated. I was under the impression swimming issues is a sign of SBD... he has trouble swimming when he is bloated which is after he eats, not any other time


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The food could be putting pressure on his swim bladder, I do not think he has swim bladder disease, but I do think he has either a short or deformed swim bladder or the duct could be swollen from either the pressure, constriction, infection that is causing the symptoms you are seeing.
There is NO way you are ever going to get a 100% diagnosis...NO way can a fish be 100% diagnosised over the internet....All we can do is give our "best guess" from the information YOU provide us, sometimes we get good pics but most time we don't....we deal with people that can not give 100% of the needed information....or don't know how to describe the issues that are going on..We do our best from our personal experiences...There are many ways to treat these kind of issues....Both can be correct just different ways to approach...

We are not "Fish Vets" we are hobbyist and these are our opinions........


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

again i ask.. what is the best and the CORRECT way... natural or meds? It cant be both, sorry, but it cant be..


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

well, i presoaked ONE pellet and fed him an hour ago and he has yet to bloat like the last 2 times. can this be explained?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

one kills the fish and one helps it.... I have heard both sides and again... i refuse to pick one over the other and risk killing him =[ that's basically playing 50/50 with my fishes life


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## Brains (Apr 2, 2010)

DarthMaul said:


> well, i presoaked ONE pellet and fed him an hour ago and he has yet to bloat like the last 2 times. can this be explained?


I think when you soak the pellet you're getting excess air out of the pellet. If you feed your fish a non soaked pellet then that air is released in your fish's stomach which makes it swim funny. Some fish can handle it, and some are really sensitive to it. But I think most people advise soaking betta food before feeding. Correct me if I am wrong, I am still learning haha.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

mm makes sense and i am going by what has happened this week. since monday, he was bloated twice when he was fed ONE pellet... and both times was gone with in hours. I presoak a pellet earlier tonight, feed him and still NO bloating...=]


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## soleilvie (Mar 20, 2010)

Are you WuGolfer07?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

does not matter if i am or not. I am not fighting, calling names or attacking anyone. Just merely trying to get to the bottom of this


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## soleilvie (Mar 20, 2010)

It was just an observation, as you both appear to have the same demanding and disrespectful attitude toward people trying to help you on here.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

soleilvie said:


> It was just an observation, as you both appear to have the same demanding and disrespectful attitude toward people trying to help you on here.


You know what buddy? I could defend myself on that garbage you just spewed out, but I'll let the thread do that for me  I've been around long enough where i know if I did DISRESPECT someone they or a mod would have warned me by now. I can't help that I actually care about my betta gets the CORRECT treatment ( which I have yet to be told, meds OR natural?) if it's meds, WHAT meds? I today is exactly 7 days of him having salt and also since I got him. Since the max for salt use seems to be 10 days, what do I doin 3 days?


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

Brains said:


> I think when you soak the pellet you're getting excess air out of the pellet. If you feed your fish a non soaked pellet then that air is released in your fish's stomach which makes it swim funny. Some fish can handle it, and some are really sensitive to it. But I think most people advise soaking betta food before feeding. Correct me if I am wrong, I am still learning haha.


He has yet to bloat after getting a presoaked pellet last and his swimming is fine  SBD = ruled out! I am going to get that stuff I was reccomened to get to add to his diet


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Most fish stores have frozen food in a freezer somewhere in the fish section. Petco has it here and so does Petsmart. You can find frozen Daphnia there. You could also try giving him a frozen mysis shrimp every now and then. You'll find them in the same freezer. I've read that the exoskeletons of mysis shrimp help provide fiber that helps them poo if they constantly have trouble. And mine totally love it.

Maybe you should try finding an exotic pet veterinarian in your area if he continues to have problems. Sometimes you can bring the fish in for a diagnosis.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

good ideas =]


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

it looks like the presoaking of one pellet is working very well! He has yet to bloat now that i am presoaking. I just feel bad for him, i feel he is being under fed =[ Tomorrow, i will presoak 2 pellets and see if the guy can handle it. I sure hope so =[ b/c ONE soaked pellet in the morning and ONE at night, is a lame diet and i am sure he would agree haha


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## kingb (Dec 7, 2009)

wow, way to hang in there. he's a fighter Maul. good to hear he's not yet become one with the force!


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

lol SAME HERE... saaammmeee here haha well i have gotten alot of good info on this loooong thread haha


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## kingb (Dec 7, 2009)

thats awesome!!!! keep it up dude! :cheers:


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you!


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## iamntbatman (Jan 3, 2008)

xxabc said:


> Also, to iamntbatman, I _believe_ pineconing is a symptom that heavily indicates dropsy, and is a very common symptom, however is not present in 100% cases of dropsy. Sometimes it's just heavy bloating, or who knows what else. We'll never know for sure, though.


Dropsy itself is actually just a symptom. Dropsy is a fluid buildup that results from kidney failure or malfunction, usually brought out by infection that spreads to the kidney. Because fish have a higher concentration of solids in their blood than in their surrounding water, they take on extra water from their watery environs via osmosis. Their kidneys process their blood and allow them to excrete extra water. When the kidneys fail, they can't do this so the water builds up in their bodies. So yes, the kidney failure happens before the fluids build up to observable amounts (resulting in the pineconing effect). By the time you observe the pineconing, the damage has already been done to the fish so even if the infection that resulted in kidney failure is treated and cured, the fish may suffer from dropsy for the rest of its life.

Off topic I realize, but I thought I'd address it. However, bloating from other sources (food issues, parasites, etc.) almost never results in the full-body swelling and pineconing you see with dropsy so that's why I brought it up in the first place.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

That's good info, I actually never realized it like that. Thank you. Would it be a bit more logical to say a betta may not always make it to the pine-coning stage? I guess my other source (I've been told on other previous forums) was not as reliable as I had imagined. I'll keep this in mind.


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I've heard that pine-coning is usually the last step if it's really bad. If they pine-cone there's usually nothing you can do for them because they're too far gone. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but that's what I've heard. I had a fish that got dropsy very fast and pine-coned a couple days later when I realized that he was very bloated. A couple weeks later he passed away.  I've only dealt with dropsy once so I'm not very educated on it.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

Update Time: I fed Peter, 2 count em 2 presoaked pellets for dinner tonight ( nothing for breakfast ) and he is not bloating. Looks like i am making some great headway towards him not bloating after feeding time anymore =] Tomorrow, i will try to presoaked in the morning and then 2 more at night and see what happens. Lets all hope it goes well so he can have a normal daily feasting, instead of next to nothing like he has been =[


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Which brand of pellets are you feeding him? The Wardley betta pellets are crazy HUGE. I can't feed them to mine except for Kilo, my half giant. There are micro pellets you can try to find that are made for smaller fish. I'd still soak them but you might be able to give him more at a time. Hikari Betta Bio Gold pellets are also smaller. I don't know which you're using but I just thought I might throw that out there.

Remember, his stomach is as big as his eye. It may seem like very little to us, but their bellies are teeny tiny. Sorry he's having troubles. Sometimes our fish have special needs.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

i KNOW how big they are haha. I don't over feed. This is the FIRST betta i have had feeding problems with. IME/IMO ONE pellet twice a day is hardly over feeding lol my other gets 2 twice a day and has NO problems =] I stopped using the wardleys with Peter, he now gets the Gold!!


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I meant that you feel like you're underfeeding but you're probably not. I didn't say overfeeding anywhere in there.


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

oh ok


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## DarthMaul (Mar 30, 2010)

UPDATE time =] I fed Peter 4 count em 4 presoaked pellets today and he did not bloat at all! I am SOOO HAPPY that i can feed him twice a day 2 presoaked pellets without him bloating. Presoaking takes more time and he does not always catch the pellet in time haha but it beats feeding him a hard pellet and him bloating =[ next step it to fast him and then feed him one FD BW and see if he can handle it. I sure hope he can so i can treat him ever now and then =]


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