# Companion for Super Delta in 3.8 gal?



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

I am trying to think of a fish or two that could add visual interest to my 3.8 Gal Fluval View, which seems so empty with just a betta and plants. 


--*I do not want any shrimp or snails*. They gross me out and I would not want to ever put my hand in the tank (I hate doing it now with just bettas).

--*I don't want anything that might nip or attack my betta.*

--*I don't want anything that will grow too large* (no plecos).

--*Must be beautiful.*

Does such a fish exist?


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

There is nothing I can think of that will meet those criteria that can go in that size tank with a betta. Maybe some more colorful silk or live plants, driftwood, or other decor? You can get creative with decor to add visual interest. River rocks or quartz/glass stones or petrified wood can add some nice color and depth too.


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## averyecho (May 2, 2014)

givemethatfish is right, that tank is much too small for any kind of tankmate that would even come close to meeting that criteria. Also, even if it was bigger, there's still a matter of whether your betta is going to attack the other fish. You'd be better off with just colorful decor.


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## Ehmdee (Jun 29, 2013)

I'm with the other posters: any tank companions that fit your criteria would need a bigger tank than you currently have.

When I had my very first fish pushed on me (no, I didn't choose fishkeeping of my own accord!) I used gloves for ANYTHING that involved touching water from the tank. The idea of keeping snails or shrimp was absolutely repulsive, and I was so squeamish even with the fish that I had.

Flash forward to today - I've now kept many species of all of the above and found that even the critters I'd initially found disgusting are actually fascinating to watch and interact with, even as far as allowing shrimp to graze on my hand and arm while cleaning the tank or rearranging decor.

This (rather strict) list may be your criteria now, but as you continue in the hobby you might find yourself attracted to or caring for different things than you currently like. Some of the most amazing things can come from expanding our experiences outside our comfort zone.

Worst case scenario from trying a new critter out for an -educated- test drive? You can rehome/RAOK it if it really doesn't jive with you.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Okay, well thanks for thinking about it for me. I guess I need to find more interesting decor. :-?

I switched to real plants and I honestly find them dull, but I don't have the right lights for other plants besides anubias, java fern, and moss balls. I don't want anything gimmicky, so it has to look natural (e.g., rocks, or plants)... I tried driftwood but it fouled the water. I had a soft plastic grass type plant that I really liked but it turned out to shred fins so I had to take it out.:evil:

On a positive note, I took my water to the Petsmart to be tested and all three tanks were perfect!:-D


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Emdee-

You make some very good points. I guess I want to be relaxed, not disgusted by the fish tanks... but perhaps over time my definition of disgusting will shift. For now though, I don't want to be creeped out when I have to do tank maintenance, or own and be responsible for the care of a creature I find gross.

I also have a weird aversion to the aquatic frogs, and any clear fish/shrimp/eel. The frog is because one escaped from the tank we had in our class in 3rd grade and went missing for months... until we found it dessicated in the art closet :shock::shock:. I DO NOT want that to happen in my home LOL!!


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Here is a picture of the tank that needs something to make it more visually interesting. Any suggestions that are in keeping with a natural look?











Here is a pic of my favorite tank:










And a tank that I am OKay with for now... but open to improving.


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## Ehmdee (Jun 29, 2013)

When I was in 4th grade I had a 'pet' terrestrial snail that got smashed by his favorite basking rock when the container got upturned. There was some serious snail aversion and considerable emotional trauma for YEARS after that, hahaha. I can dig it.

You'd be surprised how much you can get away with if you either dirt your tank (see: Walstad method) or have plants in dirted containers in the tank. I can upload a few examples if you like. On the flip side, upgrading the lighting situation for a tank that small proves to be less expensive than you might think!

Floating plants (salvinia species, water lettuce, duckweed, etc) generally fare well even under the 'standard' bulbs that come with the common hoods and fixtures.

Once true mosses (moss balls are algae) get going, look fantastic and can be used to make some striking scapes.

Driftwood leeches into the water but less so over time - the tannins actually suit bettas and many betta and blackwater-species fishkeepers add liquid, driftwood, and/or alder cones and dried leaves to make the water more acidic.

If you'd be happy with fake plants, the silky artificial ones are suitable and safe for fragile fins. If you'd rather experiment with a few more live plants, I'd be happy to ship you some for free (assuming you're in the continental US).


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Ehmdee-

Oh the poor snail. How awful for you and the snail.

For the time being I am using a full spectrum "happy light" 4 hours per day on a timer to help the plants grow. I just put the light beside the tank, it is not integrated. They can have it until I'll want it for myself again next winter. I imagine it's better than just the integrated LEDs.

I am aware that the tannins are nice for the fish... but oh, here we go again... I found the water to look gross when it turned brown from the driftwood. I sound so OCD when it comes to fish! I guess I view the tanks as a sort of living artwork and want them to look like they belong in a gallery. I also hope to bring one to my office eventually, and since I see clients there, it must be pristine.

That is so very kind of you to offer the plants. I would love to try anything that you think will thrive in a lower light 2.5-4 gallon tank. I've been trying to find Java Moss but none of the stores sell it around here. I could pm you my address.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I am totally with you about tanks being living art work. While I'm happy with shrimp and snails..(only the super bright cool ones! Pink rams horn snails and orange eyed blue tiger shrimp.. blue jelly shrimp etc) I'm anal about my water and the look of a tank. I too would choose plants to add interest to your tank. Time to aquascape the tanks and add plants with color. That should keep you happy. Nothing wrong with being picky


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## Ehmdee (Jun 29, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with having a solidified idea of the look you want for your tank, don't feel weird  Blackwater biotopes certainly aren't for everyone!

I meant more that if boiled a few times, the wood stops leeching as perceptibly. After a good few boiling sessions, you'll not see any coloration and each regular water change removes whatever bit of accumulated tannin. Plenty of gorgeous scapes have zero driftwood though, so no fear!

What're the brand/model of the tanks?

If you PM your address and name or company name, I'll throw together a package and ship tomorrow.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

They do make fake driftwood that looks very realistic and won't leach anything into your tank. You can also make your own decorations and caves using stones and silicone or styrofoam and drylok paint. I made a natural rock-look 3D background for my 54 gallon tank out of styrofoam.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

I think I have a piece of mutant driftwood. It is very dark in color, and despite several lengthy boiling sessions and weeks soaking in a bucket of water... it still turns my small tanks very dark. I think it needs to be in a much larger tank to water down the tannins that leach out.

Thanks so much Ehmdee. Sending PM.


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## SerenasFishys (Apr 20, 2014)

love the moss balls


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Ehmdee- The tanks are a Fluval View 3.8 Gal, Marina 360 2.6 gallon, and a Marineland Contour 3 gallon.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Here's a picture of my Fluval View. It's all live plants, real driftwood, river rocks, and then the ceramic tower in the corner. For some reason my moss ball decided to start floating today...


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Agent13 said:


> I am totally with you about tanks being living art work. While I'm happy with shrimp and snails..(only the super bright cool ones! Pink rams horn snails and orange eyed blue tiger shrimp.. blue jelly shrimp etc) I'm anal about my water and the look of a tank. I too would choose plants to add interest to your tank. Time to aquascape the tanks and add plants with color. That should keep you happy. Nothing wrong with being picky


:-D I googled the pink ramshorns, and the orange eyed blue tiger shrimp and blue jelly shrimp. They are definitely cute, and if I ever had a shrimp or snail I would want one of them... certainly not one of the clear grey shrimp. They are freaky to me.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

givemethatfish- Wow, your view looks so different from mine. I guess spreading the substrate across the bottom really gives it a totally different look. I love your driftwood "tree"!


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Haha.. Yeah, I like colorful inverts . 

You'd be surprised how much a difference even just a different color substrate makes. When you get the plants you should spread substrate all the way across then put any taller plant against the back of your tank and smaller ones up front or to the side. When you play with it and get it right it should give the illusion of a larger tank . 


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

rosey red minnows are good companions


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## FishWhisperer (Apr 21, 2014)

I have a particular fondness for cory cats. They have so many varieties and their name means "little armored catfish"! I've only seen one in real life and it was adorable!


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## FishWhisperer (Apr 21, 2014)

Also they are bottom feeders and can eat algae and algae wafers


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Tank is too small to have 6+ additional fish. A minimum of six is needed for most shoaling fish to be happy campers.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

There are no species of fish appropriate for this tank along with a betta. A couple species of nano fish would fit however wouldn't be appropriate with bettas. For example badis badis or Pygmy sunfish both are capable of being housed in such a tank but would be both out competed for food and unhappy with a fish SOOOO much larger then them. Both are notoriously difficult to feed as well . 

Also I'll point out corys aren't algae eating fish.. They might eat an algae wafer but that's not their preferred optimal diet. 

OP is on the right path with plants. 

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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Thank you everyone for sharing your ideas and suggestions. For now I am going to focus on plants and decor... and think about maybe down the road adding some yellow shrimp or blue jelly shrimp. One question about the shrimp- will they get sucked into my filter and be harmed? Will the yellow ones reproduce and overrun the tank? How do you gravel vacuum without sucking them up?


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Even in what seems like larger numbers the shrimp never really "over run " a tank. Yes some can get sucked into a filter . I like to keep an aquaclear sponge on the intake of the filter in my shrimp tanks. These sponges seem to also serve as a nice home for baby shrimp. These colorful small shrimp are far more cute then ghost shrimp or other readily available shrimp. 

You do have to be a wee bit more careful with the gravel vac. Just give them notice that you're putting the syphon in and they tend to move out of your way but it's a good idea to keep watching in case one accidentally goes into the syphon. 


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Shrimp in a tank with a predator need more consideration when it comes to decor. Stress alone can kill shrimp. And even if the Betta can't catch them living with something that preys on them means lots of hides and plants so they can escape.

Shrimp are also sensitive to water parameters and what won't kill your Betta (or at least allow time to correct it) will kill shrimp.

While the species you mention are gorgeous, they're more expensive at $5+ each. And if you buy them online they're usually pretty small at around .25" so heavy planting is even more important. Breeders send this size because smaller shrimp are easier to ship and acclimate. I've seen larger Blue Jelly at up to $10 each +shipping on AquaBid.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Pretty sure the OP is gathering info for the future in regards to shrimp. Which is a great idea as it's important to know more before you get something sensitive like shrimp . Things like TDS are important to keep low and the tank really needs to be no younger then 3mnths post cycle. 

I don't know about the prices you quote though . Last place I ordered blue jelly shrimp from they were only $3 each and came a surprisingly nice size . Were full grown and all alive .. Acclimated well and were with a dozen baby shrimp that must have hatched in transit . Orange eyed blue tigers though are always high priced . 


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Agent13 said:


> Pretty sure the OP is gathering info for the future in regards to shrimp. Which is a great idea as it's important to know more before you get something sensitive like shrimp . Things like TDS are important to keep low and the tank really needs to be no younger then 3mnths post cycle.
> 
> I don't know about the prices you quote though . Last place I ordered blue jelly shrimp from they were only $3 each and came a surprisingly nice size . Were full grown and all alive .. Acclimated well and were with a dozen baby shrimp that must have hatched in transit . Orange eyed blue tigers though are always high priced .
> 
> ...


I know I preach about shrimp/inverts. I lost a lost a lot of $$ and killed a lot of shrimp by not researching first.

The awakening came a few years ago when I put some RCS in with a Betta without proper planting and he chased and stressed them to their deaths. Then I thought: "Duh! I wouldn't put a Betta in a tank with an Oscar five times his size. That would be cruel." Thus the path to my shrimpy education. ;-)

Got my prices from:
Alphapro (8 for $49.00), EliteInverts (6 for $49.99) and AquaBid.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

I appreciate the warnings about the betta eating the shrimp. I will have to grow a lot more moss and plants, and put a sponge over the filter intakes before I get any... and I am not really sure I want them anyway... I will have to let this percolate for a while.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Ha! I just now noticed your shrimp care thread. Glad someone is tackling that one . And glad to see we agree on some important factors . I am generally the same about the betta issue but with a heavily planted aquarium in can work without stressing shrimp to death. I've had success in that dept... LOTS of plants ! 

For shrimp and snails I've throughout the yrs found my favorite places aside from my LFS are eliteinverts , InvertObsession, TheShrimpFarm & BobsTropicalPlants. 


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Okay, I am 99% sure the answer will be NO WAY!

But just so I don't miss an opportunity... this fish would not be okay with my betta in the 3.8 gallon tank would he? The ad says he gets along well with a dragonscale betta.

http://albany.craigslist.org/zip/4485345932.html


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Nope, not a good choice. Tank is too small for both. In addition, Bettas and Gourami are both anabantids and extremely territorial. The seller doesn't say what size tank but I'll bet it was fairly large. The Gourami probably didn't fight with the seller's Betta because he was already the dominant force.

As Agent13 advised, there are really no fish which can fairly share your tank.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Dwarf guarami are one of the most misunderstood species of fish available these days . No it wouldn't be happy in a 3-5g even by itself . If it appears happy then it's most likely a sick fish .. Suffering dwarf guarami disease or such . They need 1 square foot to be their own in a large aquarium . The 2 I have in my 75g is honestly the most cramped I'd allow them to be . Even then I must tell you both of mine have had absolutely no issue attacking my rather large and very aggressive ornate bichir telling him to get the hell away from their space. 


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Okay that's settled then. No powder blue dwarf gourami.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

To your credit, you are researching and asking questions instead of just buying something in hopes it will be do well in your setup.

Unfortunately, a lot of people get a fish or shrimp without knowing their needs. To me there's nothing worse than someone "testing" their Betta with shrimp. It almost as if shrimp are throwawy because they're cheap. 

So kudos to you for not following that path. You'll have more successes than failures with your aquarium residents.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> To your credit, you are researching and asking questions instead of just buying something in hopes it will be do well in your setup.
> 
> Unfortunately, a lot of people get a fish or shrimp without knowing their needs. To me there's nothing worse than someone "testing" their Betta with shrimp. It almost as if shrimp are throwawy because they're cheap.
> 
> So kudos to you for not following that path. You'll have more successes than failures with your aquarium residents.


Thank you for all the helpful advice and encouragement. Sick pets are an awful experience and really stress me out. I have a dog who has food allergies and is doing well now that she is eating the proper food... and I have a 28 year old horse with PPID who is the fussiest eater to ever graze this earth. Keeping all the pets healthy keeps me happy and unstressed.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

So I took the advice to work on improving my aquascaping and I think I have made some progress. See pics below. I plan to continue adding more live plants, wood, etc. to keep tweaking them, but I like them better already and am open to further suggestions.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Oh how pretty . Your fish certainly is good at modeling his aquarium with those perfect poses lol . 


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Agent13 said:


> Oh how pretty . Your fish certainly is good at modeling his aquarium with those perfect poses lol .


 Seriously!! I love it when they cooperate!! Extra blood worm for each of them tonight for being so good!!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I think your tank looks awesome. I especially love your large centerpiece plant.


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## Kumo (Oct 26, 2013)

huckleberry77 said:


> Okay, I am 99% sure the answer will be NO WAY!
> 
> But just so I don't miss an opportunity... this fish would not be okay with my betta in the 3.8 gallon tank would he? The ad says he gets along well with a dragonscale betta.
> 
> http://albany.craigslist.org/zip/4485345932.html


Hell no. The only thing you can house with a betta in a 2.5 to a tank your size would be shrimp or snails. Everything else is to big. Fish that are smaller than the betta itself? There's a strong chance the betta fish will get territorial and seriously harm and/or kill it.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

givemethatfish said:


> I think your tank looks awesome. I especially love your large centerpiece plant.


Thank you!:-D


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Today's aquascaping upgrade: Java Moss carpeting... More to come once I get this box of plants dipped!!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is this the boy who's having fin problems?


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Is this the boy who's having fin problems?


No, the Freebie fish is the only one who is perfectly happy and healthy!! It's the halfmoon Tyrion who arrived with stiff and broken fins and has not healed in 2.5 weeks of clean warm water. My Huckleberry got some fin rot (or biting?) when I was on vacation but he is doing great and just needs time to get his fins regrown.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Can you get Indian Almond Leaves or Alder cones? They are my "must-keep-on-hand" items. Whenever any of my fish look "off" I add one or the other. Colors the water but that's a good thing.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Can you get Indian Almond Leaves or Alder cones? They are my "must-keep-on-hand" items. Whenever any of my fish look "off" I add one or the other. Colors the water but that's a good thing.


I don't have any. I could order some online I suppose. It will be a few days, and I don't know if you can use them at the same time as the betta revive. I hate the brown water from tannins, but if that is what he needs I would try it.


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