# why did my ghosties die?!



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

All of my ghost shrimp are dead. I went to work they were swimming around, eating, tickling their feet. Now they're dead.  Can't find Lakitu either.

edit: Lakitu I found gasping for breath and very still. Very clamped. I rushed him to a Q tank without salt bc I wasn't sure about the salt we have. I'm actually quite upset right now. 
I cleaned everything last night! Can the new plants be too much?? Sucked the good nutrients out of the tank? I'm going to have the water tested Monday and I'm returning the shrimp and asking about returning plants IF you guys think it might be an issue. 
I hope Laki doesn't die! GUYS!!!! Vibes!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I can't imagine why the plants would cause a tank crash.  I'm so sorry about your ghosties and gosh, I hope Lakitu pulls through!

Are the ghosties new? Maybe they caused an ammonia spike.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I know it crazy question but are you sure that you didn't forget to use water conditioner?
How is Laki doing?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I put conditioner in, in fact I added a bit extra because of all the new things. I was wondering about the plants myself, the reason I got them was to benefit the tank! I doubt that ammonia was involved because Hornwort sucks it up like a vacuum I read! 
I was watching the temperature (because of the new heater) and it stayed very consistent. 
On another forum (not as active so I'm surprised I even got a reply) the aquarium expert told me to clean everything and return Lakitu to it.. But I'm too afraid to do that! She thinks the sudden gravel change might have screwed up the bacteria balance? I don't filter the tank so I don't know. I'm going to set up the 1g with the betta therm and see how he is. He survived the night at least :/
Yes, the ghost shrimp were new. I spent like 53$ the night before on all this new stuff (gravel, heater, shrimp, thermometer, plants)
It was too late last night to clean the tank and I wasn't sure how to keep a sample of water for the test. 
I will call PetSmart when they open to see if they want the shrimp back. I want cherry shrimp (which are totally freshwater) but they don't have any. I don't think my freshwater tank killed the shrimp though (they can survive non-brackish) .. right?

Thanks for the replies


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If you don't filter the tank, then yeah, you probably did have a lot of bacteria in the gravel. That might be it. If that's the case, I would wait a week or more for the bacteria to build up again OR put Lakitu back in and do frequent water changes. 

If they're ghost shrimp, they should be freshwater and okay in our tanks.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't have a filter, no. . . I'll touch base tomorrw after I finds out what went wrong. I currently have Lakitu in a 1g with some old gravel and an old silk plant and the 2 nano moss balls. He's been sleeping on top of an IAL all day.


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

How did you acclimate the fish? And did you use soap to clean the aquarium


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

The plants were most likely carrying a disease that caused the deaths. As annoying as it is, plants have to be QTed before being introduced.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

goodness no I didn't use soap!! I always only use hot water and a clean fish only sponge. 
The plants have a good rep coming from the store, tanks are clean and plants look good. I guess the period between now and next week will acclimate them- I hope it wasn't disease! How would we ever know? I hope some questions will be answered tomorrow, I'll see about Safe Start too, to see that this doesn't happen again :/


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Yep. Any new symtons in your betta?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

This morning he's merely there. Not much out of him. Last night I moved him back to the kitchen so the cat wouldn't get at him and it looked as if he was having trouble swimming, which explains his lethargy up on the IAL. He slept with some of his head out of water, the hump behind his eyes, but I just cleaned half the 3g with a half water change and hopefully the plants will have helped whatever spike occurred. I was told to try putting him back in there (it's warmer than what he's in now).


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

But you need to acclimate him slowly because you don't want to shock him with temperature difference. Do you know what the temperature difference is. Is it room temperature or you have heaters.

Is your betta bloated? Any other visible symptoms on his body? Poor thing it look like he is not good at all..sorry..i wish he will pull through.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Disregard my question about bloating. He has completely different symptoms. I don't know why i asked that question. 

Also i think if he has difficulty to swim may be smaller tank is better for him. And the plant so he can rest on it. May be more water changes the the same like temperature +-2* water. May be it will help.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I acclimated him to the warmer tank. The small one had a heater but the temp was only 21C so I floated the therm in the 3g until it read 21C. Floated him, released him and turned the heater on. It's warming slowly bc with my new fancy adjustable therm I started it out low so it wouldn't shock him. 
I went to school for an hour and just came home, thawed some bloodworms and he is showing interest!!! He nibbled a bit but is gone back to skulking, I got some pics of him about 10 mins ago :

I mean, aside from clamped fins he seems to look okay. Maybe a bit of ammonia burn


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Can you make water a little bit warmer with that heater? His fins are still clumped. You wrote that he is skulking, but is he swimming or just hanging in the canner? Is he really lethargic? Usually for 3 gall unfiltered tank you need to do 1-50% and 1-100% of the water changes. But I think if he is lethargic you might need to do more frequent water changes and see if it will help him.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I would think that you might need to treat him with aquarium salt if he is not better. I am not sure though i would wait until someone else will give you advice. Also i am not sure if you will have another fish but never share any equipment between sick and healthy betta. 

And i am not sure how you check the water temperature when you change him but i can share the info if you need it. i have the same problem. My house cold and i use aged water so it kind of a little bit difficult ...because i am trying to make the same temperature +- 4*. I know everyone has own method


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh yea, I meant to express this- I started the good heater out at a lower temp to match what he was in, now it's at 76F. I didn't want the temp to rise too fast! That's all!!  Yea, he is still clamped and I'm not getting a rise out of him when I get close. But he ate and is moving around a bit- I meant his is "skulking" as in totally depressed looking. He remains at the top and just glides around slowly, stays put for a while, then goes on again. I have seen an improvement for sure. Currently he is resting on a floating IAL. I didn't want to use salt in case he is not physically hurt. 
I'm getting the bus now in 15 minutes out to test my water and refund the poor shrimpies. I don't want more if they haven't been introduced to freshwater (as someone on another forum suggested) Aw, poor shrimp. I feel awful! I never intended to hurt the little things. 
Better luck next time I suppose. But I think Lakitu will make it afterall


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad to hear Lakitu is perking up a little. Phew! Hang in there, Lakitu!


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## Myrtaceae (Dec 17, 2011)

Sorry I'm a little late to this-- I love shrimp. 

I'm crossing my fingers that it's not a disease-- if something mass killed the ghost shrimp, the resulting ammonia spike from the decomposing bodies could have been enough to stress out poor Lakitu. :/ 

Inverts in general are pretty sensitive to ammonia, and if you recently moved around a lot of gravel you could have stirred some stuff up (resulting in a minor spike). OR the plants had something that wasn't invert friendly on them. Sometimes copper is used in fertilizers. It shouldn't be enough to harm the shrimp, but it could have worked in combo? Anything metal is a no-go around my invert tank. I had a mass shrimp die-off years back because of a thin wire inside a silk plant rusting. 

Anyway, I've kept ghost shrimp in freshwater for ages before-- and I doubt they were in brackish water in the store because it's harder to maintain and many people only use them for feeders.

You'll know more after you test the water, but keep in mind that if the ammonia is high it could be a result of the dead ghost shrimp (and not what killed them).


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I think 76* would be fine for him. Don't make higher, because i think it would be too fast. He was in 69* today now it 76*. And 76* is good anyway.

I am not sure about aq salt though. But i think recommendation for aq salt is to treat if fish has physical symptoms. And i think he is. I wish someone else will tell you what to do. But I am pretty sure you need more water changes or aq salt if he will not get better. 

I hope he will recover. I feel bad about poor shrimp but it not your fault. You did your best...

Give us update please.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Back from store, They tested my water and nothing. She said the ammonia was low if anything (the plants sucked it up) and she told me something might have been used aorund the tank and they might be sensitive to copper/metals. Dumbfounded, we walked around the store a bit. I found out when I got home that the *&^%$#$ hornwort was still wrapped up in whatever the store keeps the bunches together with- a metal fastener. 
**Facepalm**
SO, with metal poisoning as my conclusion, how do I speed Lakitu's recovery?

With my shrimp refund and the 3$ I saved by filling out an online survey I came home with... (*drumroll*) BOWSER!!! Lakitu's young brother. He's crowntail though he might be half combtail... Pics to come tomorrow as he is settling in for the night.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I advised you don't use the same equipment between them though. In case he has any bacteria infection. I am not sure if you just need more water changes or aq salt. I just ask someone to look at your post 

He is the same right? No new symptoms?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Technically, though, the metal weights wrapped around the plants should have been inert, meaning they shouldn't affect the water. If Petsmart uses the same metal bands that other plant companies use, anyway. The ones I've seen, you can actually keep on the plant and bury in the gravel without any problem. But then again, it IS Petsmart so who knows. Keep us updated on Bowser.  I love the names, by the way.


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## Myrtaceae (Dec 17, 2011)

Hmm. My guess would be the metal, although I don't know very much about plants so I'd trust Sakura when she says it's supposed to be inert. That said, eh, pet stores. 

I'd ask for specifics next time you take your water there though. Ammonia _can't_ be low...the ideal is 0ppm. In a cycled tank, ammonia shouldn't be detectible at all. Ask to see the strip with the color chart for yourself.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, Myrt. I hope it's inert. But it certainly does seem like the culprit here, doesn't it? Maybe the metal bands that Petsmart uses aren't the same as the others I've seen. 

For metal poisoning, I think Prime and API Stress Coat both remove heavy metals from the water. Maybe try one of those and see if it helps alleviate any of his symptoms.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Eep! Sorry to hear that Laki got so sick! Hope he feels better.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

She showed me the color chart as she was talking- she's one of the girls I actually trust there. I'll do a change today because his tank is a bit cloudy today, I'm almost certain the metal had something to do with it. The part of the plant it came off of I had to cut out because it was tarnished and dead looking. 
Anything I gave Bowser was totally cleaned and new, except for the hornwort and IAL. He's doing perfect today- bit of bloat from the store is all.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

I highly doubt it's metal, the metal straps are inert. Copper is what kills shrimp, did you use hot or warm water for your last few water changes? Also check your de chlorinator there have been bad ones floating around. I would say you made these changes, introduced plants that had spots decaying and probably a few ghost shrimp that were already sickly. When they died, the tank just took a nose dive, plus the first photo period for the plants, who knows what happened with your water parameters. How's your betta coming along?


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I stopped buying plants from the stores. I am using spider plant (herbaceous plant) It very easy to grow and it stay longer than any other plant from the store. And i know it safe. A lot of people have it. If you take a branch piece from it you can very easily grow.

The store which is next to my work had plants in the tank next to fish tank. And i saw how worker took water from the fish tank and pour it to the tank with plants, which i think not right, because you never know if that fish is healthy. So since then i am afraid to buy any plants from the pet store. I know that you guys discussing different issue but what i saw in my store can be in any other store. 

Keep us update with Lakitu and his brother


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

@Brian: I always rinse the gravel and silk plants etc in hot water but then they're cooled in cold water before I fill the tank. So I don't think the temperature of gravel is really involved, but it's a good suggestion that I'm sure gets overlooked a lot. 
The water conditioner I've had for a while and with weekly changes Lakitu is so used to it that his sudden illness wouldn't have been a result- but again I can see a sudden change in conditioner affecting fish slime coats. 
@BETTA, I haven't bought live plants from a fish tank since my moss ball (which was quarentined). These ones came from a plant only display in PetSmart. Do you mean spider plants that people have in their homes? How does it survive in your tank?! I love spider plants!! 
I'll update in Bowser's own thread. 
Lakitu is coming arounf slowly. Going to change some water now


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes just regular spider plant. I was trying to find thread about that on this forum. I know some people on this forum using spider plant for bettas also. It can be different foliage and color. Some have more yellow inside of the leaf some leaves just green without any color inside. I have the one which is really long and green and leaves are wider than other. It stays forever. Well i do a lot of water changes. I always do 50% and 100% a week so i always check make sure it not rotten. I clean them if i need to. My friend has different spider plant it get rotten faster...but still i love it. And some of them so long that it even sticks out of my 2.5 gall. All my bettas love them.

Yes just regular spider plants that people have in their homes


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

hmm, I will definitely look into getting one, growing it out and adding the extra bits to the tanks!! Spider plants are so pretty! I had one for a few years but the cats got at it. Combined with my brown thumb it just perished.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

The reason I ask about warm water is that most warm water is contaminated with copper from the water heater (it doesn't hurt us, but it is hard on shrimp). How big is your tank? I'm betting you had a few shrimp die and in a closed system with no filtration everything went nuts from the shrimp starting to decay. I have Ghost Shrimp in my 10 gallon NPT right now and they're trucking a long just fine. I have them in there with some browning anacharis and a few crypts, they love it. I've lost 2 since I started but they were fresh transplants and I pulled them as soon as I noticed them.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

omgoodness! Never considered that! Holy Epiphany! Thanks for the info!  I think it will be some time now before I let myself get tank scavengers. And no more ghosties for sure!


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

Laki said:


> omgoodness! Never considered that! Holy Epiphany! Thanks for the info!  I think it will be some time now before I let myself get tank scavengers. And no more ghosties for sure!


I know the feeling, I bought an Oto and a Chinese Algae eater because they only had one Oto at the time. The algae eater turned into a monster and was nipping my females! The Oto was doing good, leaving tracks all in the BBA when I just found him dead :shock: I haven't put scavengers back in the regular 10 gallon yet because of it. I put those ghosties in the NPT so it would have some occupants and they seem to be doing good in it, but I don't have the heart to dump a few of them in the 10 gal to see how they do. I put a pond snail in there and the alpha girl killed it before it ever hit the bottom!


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I didn't know about that. I am using warm almost hot water. Without that i have no idia how to change the water in the winter time. In the summer time they live in the room temperature and I don’t have heaters. In the winter time I do have heaters. And I am using aged water. My house during the day when we are at work about 68* so when i change my fish i mix that aged water which I let stay for 24 hrs with warmer water which i prepare 30 min before changing them. So maybe I can use just warm , not hot though? Is worm water would be also affected by copper?


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

Normal *cold* tap water should have much lower levels of copper/metals in it than water that has been through the water heater. Warm will have less than hot as it's less of a concentration of water heater treated water. I would just run the tap on cold, fill up the buckets and let them age, they'll come up to temp pretty quickly. Also I don't even allow the water to warm up when I add it to my 10 or 20 gallon. It's dechlor in the bottom of the jug, run the tap on full cold, swirl it on the way to the tank, and dump it in. I noticed my bettas seem MORE active since I started doing this, I don't know if the temp swings more naturally mimic the weather cycles or if I was getting contamination in my hot water.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

lol no i am a freak when it come to do something new and different. I actually even have accident one time when i somehow put my betta after i change the water and he got lethargic for like 4 hrs and i think it because i shocked him with temperature difference. I will just use worm water instead of hot 

Thank's


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