# Would you breed an imperfect Betta?



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

I have a male Betta with really great coloration. He is a very vibrant male and I think he would have healthy offspring. My question is an aesthetic one. I want to breed him because of his unique coloration and long stunning fins. However, as a crowntail he is imperfect. His webbing is uneven. He was a unique petstore find and he got desensitized to other male bettas so he does not fully flare. Because of this getting a good shot of him is difficult. I’m hoping that with a little time alone that will fix itself, he is still young yet. Since I have had him he has already started to transform a little. His fins have grown out more and his color has become a little richer. He is an orangey-gold color with a metallic sheen. What are the chances of his offspring developing better fin qualities if I wanted to start a line with him? Would you breed him or should I just keep my eye out for the “perfect betta”? Thanks ahead of time and I look forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts!

Bobby

P.S. When I am able I will try to take a photo of him in full flare. He is the only other betta I have at the moment and mirrors/pictures of other males flaring don’t work. I even tried playing videos on my phone to no avail. Here is the best example I have at the moment His caudal fin was a little torn when I got him and is getting better. They were taken on my phone so they are not perfect.


----------



## Persica (Jul 14, 2011)

He is a gorgeous boy! Honestly, I don't think the fin thing matters unless you're looking to make the top buck for his babies. When I buy bettas, I don't care if they are "perfect" or not. And I'm sure there are a lot of other owners like that as well. Just from a consumer's point of view.  Anyway, let us know if you breed him! He's BEAUTIFUL. I might be interested in a baby!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

To be honest, the form comes mainly from the female. So if you were to pick a very nicely "made" female, she should balance out any physical flaws you're worried about in him.  His color is nice, and he looks beautiful. I'd say why not. As long as there's no concern of passing disease or disabilities, a couple minor physical flaws shouldn't stop you. Just make sure you read up on breeding before you try; I've been reading nonstop and only now feel comfortable trying it...and even now I'm still anxious about it >.<


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

imperfect fins aren't much. x: to me, your male looks amazing! <3 CT fins are hard to keep perfect, imo.


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

this is how lines are created  start with an imperfect fish and breed until you get the result you want! i'd totally do it. finding him a great female on AB would help out.


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

*Thanks.*

Thanks for the responses! It will be a few months before I try breeding him. I have to fatten him up and find the perfect partner for him first. I plan on getting a sorority tank up and running in the next couple of months. I'm working on starting live food cultures at the moment too. I have BS hatcherys up so far. I am going to start a daphnia tank and then find some soon. There are a few other things I want to take care of first as well. Ill probably be ready after finals in the fall. I'll definatly be active on the forums when the time comes though! Thanks again for all your thoughts! =)

Bobby


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure how to manipulate CT genetics since I've never worked with them. But I do agree that the female determines form more than the male. IMO the problem is maintaining the color. Your best bet is getting a gold female CT. You could perhaps use other metallics like copper, yellow dragon etc. But I'm not sure of the outcome..... I'm still searching on how to make gold from scratch.


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback Indjo. I have been keeping my eye out for a few females to set up a soroity tank. I read somewhere that in order to preserve gold in bettas you have to avoid colors that mask red as red has been bred out to create the gold color strain. The colors that I am looking for in my females are pure black, gold, copper dragon, platinum, yellow and white. I am still learning about betta color genetics. Are any of these colors problimatic that you know of in passing on gold to some of his kids? Also, if I bred him with a female that was not ct what tail types would I look for as to pass on ct to his kids ? Thanks in advance! =)


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

VT is dominate, all other tail types, as far as I know, are recessive, I just got a GORGEOUS orange female VT from Walmart, she has SBD and a bit of chewed up fins, it is possible to find these colors at petstores, you just hav to look really hard, I think its the doubletails (not sure) but breeding a double tail to a doubletail causes genetic problems, if you want to you could take the longer route and if you find a nicely colored orange/golden/yellow female (regardless of fin shape) and breed it with him, I believe the offspring would have recessive crowntails (Vc) if the off spring were to be bred with another orange/golden/yellow crowntail (maybe double back and breed with the dad) then at least some of the offspring of the desired bunch would have crowntails and be orange/golden/yellow... ALL crowntails have double recessive crowntail genes (cc), veiltails have dominate veiltail and who knows what else (V?)
its been awhile since I've taken genetics though...

my female orange VT though:
Wildfire has SBD and a bit of fin chewing, this was taken in the car, hopefully I can get a better picture in the morning


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

bby1984 said:


> Thanks for the feedback Indjo. I have been keeping my eye out for a few females to set up a soroity tank. I read somewhere that in order to preserve gold in bettas you have to avoid colors that mask red as red has been bred out to create the gold color strain. The colors that I am looking for in my females are *pure black, gold, copper dragon, platinum, yellow and white*. I am still learning about betta color genetics. Are any of these colors problimatic that you know of in passing on gold to some of his kids? Also, if I bred him with a female that was not ct what tail types would I look for as to pass on ct to his kids ? Thanks in advance! =)


Be careful with pure blacks. The only pure blacks are usually "super black" which are rather rare and perhaps unavailable in pet stores AND "melano" which are infertile (females) thus useless for your goals. Black laces aren't pure, they have irids on body and fins. Black coppers (descendants of copper dragons) aren't pure as well. But the last two can be bred (females).

IMO it would be easier to use white, platinum (metallic white), or yellow because they all have NR genes that you need. Something I recently read says 2 yellows may produce red.... but I don't know how that works - My logic says 2 NR genes should make the trait stronger???

Crossing CT to any tail types would produce uneven webbing. If you're willing to start your own line and selectively breed for generations, I suggest you get a nice HM female. Otherwise, try to get another CT.


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

LittleBettas, thanks. She has a nice color. I would like to see a good picture of her =). I bet she fixes up really well now that you have her. Ikiryo (I call him Wraith for short) had ripped fins when I got him and a few scales loose on his head but he was the most energetic and curious betta at my lfs. He would not flare though he would just swim circles and stare back at me. He has such a great personality. He is becoming quite stunning as his fins heal up and he gains more color. I am quite pleasantly surprised.

I am thinking about playing around with other metallics with him. I found a really pretty Steel ct female that I think would pair up with him nicely. I think they would end up with nice mustered gas babies. =D I want to get at least three females for my sorority before I commit to one. I would be happy to find a nice yellow or gold female hm/ct. I have been watching new shipments at several local stores that sell bettas. I figure I'll just know exactly what I am looking for when I see her.

Can't wait to see more pics of your new betta. Have you named her yet? =)


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

indjo said:


> Be careful with pure blacks. The only pure blacks are usually "super black" which are rather rare and perhaps unavailable in pet stores AND "melano" which are infertile (females) thus useless for your goals. Black laces aren't pure, they have irids on body and fins. Black coppers (descendants of copper dragons) aren't pure as well. But the last two can be bred (females).
> 
> IMO it would be easier to use white, platinum (metallic white), or yellow because they all have NR genes that you need. Something I recently read says 2 yellows may produce red.... but I don't know how that works - My logic says 2 NR genes should make the trait stronger???
> 
> Crossing CT to any tail types would produce uneven webbing. If you're willing to start your own line and selectively breed for generations, I suggest you get a nice HM female. Otherwise, try to get another CT.


Thanks Indjo, I was a little curious about pure black betta since black coloring in mammels is usually a dominant, codominant or incomplete dominant trait. I have seen some really great looking bettas with black/gold coloration but am not sure how this is accomplished. I would also not like to do anything to make duplicating his form difficult in the future. He has really great traits. Platinum and white look really great on bettas imo. I have yet to see any of either at any of my lfs’s though and they are usually more than I can afford to pay for a nice one on aquabid at the moment xD. I have been keeping my eye out though. 

I kind of thought that about crossing tail types. I am following your advice and looking for females with great fin structure, although I am less and less concerned about him as he continues to develop. Because I am looking for something so specific it is a little bit of a challenge finding it but I am patient. I would be happy passing on the traits that make him so attractive to me to his spawn so I may eventually duplicate and perfect it. No matter what I think he would make great babies and he is a great fish friend lol. =)


----------



## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

bby1984 said:


> I would be happy passing on the traits that make him so attractive to me to his spawn so I may eventually duplicate and perfect it. No matter what I think he would make great babies and he is a great fish friend lol. =)


^ +1  

As long as you love the fish for who they are, it doesn't really matter what they look like, IMO. If you wanted to cross tail types, I think HM would be really neat. You'd end up with a lot of half-suns (HM's with spikey finnage) I think they look cool.  
And just because he doesn't have "the perfect fins" doesn't mean you shouldn't breed. As stated before- that's where everyone starts from. 
Where's the fun in trying to re-create something if you already have perfect fish...? That seems more like someone would just be in it for the money (which isn't bad!)


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

youlovegnats said:


> As long as you love the fish for who they are, it doesn't really matter what they look like, IMO. If you wanted to cross tail types, I think HM would be really neat. You'd end up with a lot of half-suns (HM's with spikey finnage) I think they look cool.
> And just because he doesn't have "the perfect fins" doesn't mean you shouldn't breed. As stated before- that's where everyone starts from.
> Where's the fun in trying to re-create something if you already have perfect fish...? That seems more like someone would just be in it for the money (which isn't bad!)


Yea that would be cool and I totally agree. I picked him because I thought he was awsome but someone made me self concious about his fins. =( Making enough money to support my addiction would be cool. XD I don't need to make a living out of it or anything I just love fish. I want to clone my boy because I love him and want to be able to have him for ever. Lol 

My Petstore got some cool bettas in and i snagged a couple. I think I found my gold female and she looks like shes a halfmoon dragon. =D They are acclimating right now and then I am going to place them all in quarintine. I'll post some pics soon. 

I felt so bad they were all stressed out, and my new male has ick =(. Their water was so blue I could hardly see them!


----------



## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

bby1984 said:


> Yea that would be cool and I totally agree. I picked him because I thought he was awsome but someone made me self concious about his fins. =( Making enough money to support my addiction would be cool. XD I don't need to make a living out of it or anything I just love fish. I want to clone my boy because I love him and want to be able to have him for ever. Lol
> 
> My Petstore got some cool bettas in and i snagged a couple. I think I found my gold female and she looks like shes a halfmoon dragon. =D They are acclimating right now and then I am going to place them all in quarintine. I'll post some pics soon.
> 
> I felt so bad they were all stressed out, and my new male has ick =(. Their water was so blue I could hardly see them!


Awww yay! I'm glad you found your female! You'll have some nice babies!!!  
If you need help with spawning, fry food, and conditioning feel free to ask! Everyone is here to help! ^^


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

I named my girl Wildfire, depending on how she turns out, and along witha few other factors, I may breed her... not 100% sure yet though

Breeding him with the steel girl would be AWESOME, post pics of the new girls please!!!!


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

LittleBettas said:


> I named my girl Wildfire, depending on how she turns out, and along witha few other factors, I may breed her... not 100% sure yet though
> 
> Breeding him with the steel girl would be AWESOME, post pics of the new girls please!!!!


Nice name! Alright here comes a pic spam. Sorry the cam on my iphone sucks so the pics don't really do justice. I wish I could afford a new one =/. 

I have not gotten my steel yet. And my gold girl swears there is something in that flower. She was gold in the store, now I cant tell if she is yellow or gold, her color has faded. =(


----------



## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

So cute!!!!!


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

BEAUTIFUL! all of them!
Wildfire lightened up when I first brough her home to, she's darkened back up once she settled down so your girl may do the same, good luck! 
(keep us updated on pics!)


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks youlovegnats!



LittleBettas said:


> BEAUTIFUL! all of them!
> Wildfire lightened up when I first brough her home to, she's darkened back up once she settled down so your girl may do the same, good luck!
> (keep us updated on pics!)


Thanks! Will do. The new crowntail male I just bought is really sick. =( I started his ick treatment last night. He is really lethargic so I lowered his water level to make breathing easier for him. I put one of the females nearby, she makes him perk up every once and a while. I figure it'll give him something to live for. =) corporate petstores take poor care of there bettas.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

They do, I have yet to find a place that takes decent care of them... or for that matter... minimal care


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

My new red ct male whom I lovingly named Twitch died tonight.  I am not sure how long he had ich at the store and for not the first time promised myself tonight never to purchase a fish that is already ill. I always think I can save them but rarely can. :| I hope his last few days with me were as pleasent as could be. 

The two new girls are healthy as horses. I have two new females comming Monday and I will quarintine them for two weeks and then introduce them all to their new ten gallon natural planted tank and their sorority mates. I think they will all be much happier there.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I can't wait to see the spawn you get. Honestly I didn't get a good look at your yellow/gold female but she kinda looks like she's pineapple, actually...


----------



## bby1984 (Jul 18, 2011)

NCPanthersgurl said:


> I can't wait to see the spawn you get. Honestly I didn't get a good look at your yellow/gold female but she kinda looks like she's pineapple, actually...


Yea I think your right. 

She is more of a metalic yellow than a gold to me, but I am still learning how to classify betta so not sure what a better trained eye would classify her as. She is quite neat though and her personality is cute. She has become quite adventurous and she has built herself a little nest in her floating lotus. I decided to name her flower.


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Sorry to hear about Twitch  I was actually thinking of renaming my Jose, Twitch but I was unsure. Once I saw this and saw your boy has passed, it made it official for me. I'm going to rename my boy, in Memory of yours  ((hugs))

And on topic... I was going to breed my boy Carnage. He was a beautiful halfmoon, with poor scales. I had him paired with a female that had someone not so great fins and perfect scales. I would have kept the best of the spawn with both traits, don't care about color, and start again with the line and hopefully get the beautiful fins and gorgeous scales I wanted


----------



## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Aww cute name ^.^


----------

