# topline slope question



## marktrc

I have been looking at toplines of different male bettas and it seems that some of the fish that are referred to as nicer fish have almost what I'd call humpbacks. Humpbacks is probably the wrong word to use here. But many seem to have almost a steep round shape. It almost looks odd to me. Its something I didn't really notice before as the fins often stole my attention but now that I look at body form more.. the "hump" look kind of is bugging me. 

Anyone else see this? Is the "hump" look a desired look?


----------



## registereduser

I don't like it either, which is why I prefer "mutt" fish :lol:


----------



## marktrc

Maybe it is better described as hump head. I don't know.


----------



## Mo

Just to let you know. HMPK's usually have a sloped head and it's there body type. It isn't a fault for them but is a fault for other fish


----------



## dramaqueen

I think the term is spoonhead.


----------



## Hallyx

Spoonhead is a fault in a show Betta of any fin type. Fighters are the exception; the upturned mouth is said to be devastating.

The body line should be one smooth hyperbolic curve from nose to peduncle. Any dents, radical differences in curvature, flat spots or recurve (spoonhead) are faults. It should look like it was drawn in one smooth line with a compass or French curve. 

Mark, the HM (or SDet) in your avatar has a good, but not exceptional, topline.

There's a wonderful drawing around here that shows just that. But I lost my URLs and I'm too lazy to find it just now.


----------



## tanseattle

Slope = Rise/Run what is your slope?


----------



## marktrc

I dont think its spoonhead. It's like what mo is describing. The hmpks have it more often. It's hard to see in a pic but easier to see in person. That's why I have not posted pics. 

My avatar does not have it.


----------



## Hallyx

The degree of curvature will vary with the length and thickness of the fish. As long as it's a smooth, even curve there will be no deductions.


----------



## Mo

hmm. Lemme find some pics to see if I can find out what you mean


----------



## Mo

kinda like this?


----------



## Vashnic

It does seem that many plakat bettas have shorter and thicker body shapes than the other types--bulldogs of betta world. XD The topline reminds me a little of sockeye salmon, actually.


----------



## Hallyx

Mo has shown a fish with an excellent topline... smooth like the top of an airplane wing. It doesn't even rise out-of-curve for the dorsal fin.

Also nice alignment, anal not too long, long first dorsal ray, etc. That is a quality HM.


----------



## Mo

Thanks Hallyx.. He DOES have a SEVERE fault.. If you shine a flashlight which is what judges do to find Irredescence he has tons of it..


----------



## Hallyx

You're kidding. Iridescence is the best quality in some of my fish, unless we (the judges and I) mean different things by that term. 

When I refer to iridescence I mean that quality of "shimmer" or refraction (as opposed to reflection) or subtle color change depending on the light. 

I use it also to describe the color/refraction _change_ caused by the activation of photophors which can transform some fish---like some wilds---from dull brownish fish into a glowing colorful spectacle.


----------



## Mo

I remember Sherolyn Craig saying that you should have 0 irredescence in reds


----------



## VictorP

+1 Mo
Reds should have 0 irrids in them which is one of the hardest things for a breeder to achieve when breeding reds.


----------



## Hallyx

Apparently the word _iridescence_ carries a specific connotation in Betta breeding, a definition that is other than or beyond the common English language meaning. 

Would anyone care to enlighten me? Thank you.


----------



## Basement Bettas

Hallyx said:


> Apparently the word _iridescence_ carries a specific connotation in Betta breeding, a definition that is other than or beyond the common English language meaning.
> 
> Would anyone care to enlighten me? Thank you.


it depends on the color. The iridescents are actually a betta color and these colors have a reflective quality.. the blue/green/steels. So they have a bit of shine and that is what you want. To get an all blue/green/steel fish you actually have to have a spread iridescence gene. Otherwise you just get patches of these colors.

Black and red should not be any color but black or red. If you look at a black or red fish and they have specks of steel/green/blue they have iridescence.. not spread iridescence.. but scales that have a bit of another irid color on them. This is a huge fault on those colors as showing red on an iridescent fish is.

Things get complicated when you add a metallic gene.. and you get metallic blues, greens and turqs. You can also get metallic over the red.. though it usually is just hints of steel showing up.

hth


----------



## Hallyx

Thanks, BB. That simple explanation opened m eyes to what they're talking about when they say iridescence, and what it means in regards to show Betta.


----------



## homegrown terror

i've always preferred "trout-headed" bettas over "salmon-headed" ones.

p.s. look what you get when you google search "spoonhead"


----------

