# Blue Marble DT X Blue HM



## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Blue Marble DT X Blue HM
This pair was set up in a 2gal glass tank on 08/17/05 and they spawned on 08/18/15. 
The male is a blue marble DT male purchased from PetCo, so other than his phenotype, I cannot tell you much about him.








The female is a Blue HM from a bloodline that I have been working with for about 5 years now. Her background includes HM, HMPK, DTHM, Marble, blue dragon scale, green dragon scale, and white. She is 2 years old and the LAST female from my original bloodline. This is her first time spawning so her genotype has a lot of possibilities. This is not a good photo of this female, but hey she is 2yrs old so its a miracle she bred at all!









So far the fry are doing really well. I removed the male once they were free swimming. They are being fed on a mixture of decap BBS and vinegar ells. Daily 50 to 90% water changes are being done every evening. The water temp is around 93F and there is a small sponge filter to help keep water quality survivable. I have counted over 100 fry and then lost count. I will count again once they are larger and can be transferred to a larger tank.








The pair spawning








horrible photo of the eggs in the bubble nest








the fry before free swimming stage
And now photos of the fry from 08/26/15


























Thanks for looking 

Missina
http://missina.net


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## Lilypad (Oct 15, 2014)

Little cuties! I'm excited to see how they grow!


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

93f?


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> 93f?


93 °Ferinheight


Missina


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## Nimble (Aug 31, 2014)

That is way too hot, I'd turn your tank's heater down to about 82*F.


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## savagebeautymnl (Apr 16, 2015)

Agree with the above, that's quite warm! Unless you've always done things this way, and it's worked for you... Still, I'd probably want to do it a bit differently if she was the sole female survivor of a 5-year running line.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

savagebeautymnl said:


> Agree with the above, that's quite warm! Unless you've always done things this way, and it's worked for you... Still, I'd probably want to do it a bit differently if she was the sole female survivor of a 5-year running line.


I tend to grow them hot. Hot water goes bad faster but u do daily water changes. Hot clean water grows.them faster. And i promise my fry are doing great. 

Missina


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## SunnySideIvy (Jan 14, 2015)

Does the heat effect the male to female ratio of the fry? I know when we breed chickens if it is hot for several days during incubation more females are born than males.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Interesting, I thought that was a typo! How long does it take to grow them to selling size at that temp?


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

I don't think I have ever seen a difference in the sexes of the fish based off temps. I recall trying out experiments in high school with different Ph and food types..the only thing I can really say for sure is that temp and water quality increase growth rate. There was speculation that growing bettas out in hot water would shorten their overall life span, similar to what can happen with guppies, but I have not seen this with my fish. I use to have data on the pH and stuff and what foods produced better fry growth rates..but I lost it all about 5 years ago in a house fire. after that fire I cut way back and started working with my present bloodline. 
as to how long it takes to grow fry out to sell size with hot temps, if you keep up with water quality and high protein foods, eh maybe 2 or 3 months. but if you do not keep the water clean then the heat will cause the uneaten food to rot and spoil the water quality and you end up with very dead fry.

Missina


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I love those colors! I bet the fry will all be great lookers!


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## savagebeautymnl (Apr 16, 2015)

Wow, fascinating. That must account for all the seemingly gigantic 3-month-old beauties on aquabid. Good to know especially since temp control has been on my mind lately. Trying to set up a grow out area, and it can get quite warm hereabouts. Thanks for the reassurance!

I hope this spawn brings you closer to your goal with the line!  Looking forward to how they turn out.


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Beautiful pair! subbing


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Here is an update on the fry. I am now seeing a LOT of DT fry. I have culled a few super tiny ones already, and had 1 or 2 die of unknown causes. the babies are growing great! On the days I work 12 hour shifts, I feed them twice. They get fed a mix of BBS and vinegar ells in the morning, and then when I get off work I do a water change and then give them more BBS. On the days I do not work, I feed them 3 to 4 times a day and am doing 2 water changes. I am giving them a mix of BBS and vinegar ells depending on how my BBS are doing. When the BBS hatchery is down, I feed a mix of vinegar ells and micro worms (now that I got new cultures in). 
you can see the heater cable in this photo, its a very thick cable. 








Here is one of the DT fry, I think I *might* look for a PK male to spawn the female to next because I really do not know what geno type the male had. 








another couple of DT fry. I would say more than half the spawn is DT. some of more symmetrical than others. 








you can see the beginning of scaling on the top of this fry. the fry are coming in 2 phases right now, a light and a dark phase. the mother of this spawn does have white dragonscale in her background, but back probably 3 generations now. so Im not really sure she can pass this gene off still. this might be all the male, Im just not sure. this is why I really hate breeding fish that I do not know their genetics..but Im still really happy I found this male to help keep my blood line going! 









If anyone is wondering, I shoot with a Canon EOS 50D and use a 100mm USM fixed macro lens. my office were the fry tank is kept is pretty dark, but the tank has a window behind it so that's why it looks like the fish are back lit. 

Missina
http://missina.net


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

My fry are now 13 days old and about 1/4" long. Some of the fry are much smaller and the larger ones are now killing them if I do not cull them first. I found 3 tiny fry with their tails bitten off this morning. This means its about time to move them to a larger tank. I can also see dorsal and anal fins on most of the fry now, and if I shine a flash light on them I can see hints of blue and white coloring starting to show up. Here are some pics of a few this morning.
















they got fresh decapsulated BBS this morning. I was always so afraid to try to decapsulate my brine shrimp eggs, but I found it to be super easy and it increased the hatch ratio on the BBS and I do not need to worry so much about fry accidently eating the egg shells 
















not the best photo but this DT fry looks really nice in person. several of the fry have uneven lobes but I will let them grow up some more before doing anything about them.

That's it for today. Thanks everyone for the comments  I have really missed watching baby bettas grow! 

Missina
http://missina.net

P.S. if the photos don't load, check back later. we have been having some weather issues and the power has gone out a time or three and that crashes my server.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Great photos!


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## wildmountainthyme (Jul 13, 2015)

Lovely pair and amazingly clear photos, some of the best I have seen! I am subscribing so I can see photos of the grown fry, they look like they will be gorgeous.

I also love your female's speckled fins. I would love to find a betta like that.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

I bet people can tell when I have a day off by now...anyways after cleaning, feeding and all that fun stuff I sat down to watch and yes, take photos of my fry. They are now showing blue color without the need for a flash light. 
















the above DT fry is pretty big, but not the biggest in the tank. 








ok not the best photo, but I just LOVE the fact that you can see the BBS in the digestive track 








I *think* some of the fry are showing marbling to..not this one though. this one looks like it will be a mostly solid to solid blue color.


Hope everyone enjoys these. I wil be working the next several days..so no updates for a while. 

Missina


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Sorry for the lack of updates, work has been keeping me busy. My fry are now all at about 1/2"- a little smaller than they should be, or at least what I am use to, but since I have been getting overtime at work, I am not always home in time to do feedings with them when I should. I have started to train them to take non-live fry foods. I normally do this with guppy fry, but since I did not have any guppies I decided to try using least killiesfish (a very small live bearer native to Florida). Well I put a female into my fry tank and everything was great for 2 days..but on the 3rd morning of her being in with my betta fry, I discovered that she had started to chew up my betta fry's fins!! I was so devastated. I removed the least killie from the tank and am now feeding really horrible for what my poor little babies must have gone through. On the bright side, none of the betta fry were killed, and several of them are now taking none live foods! Time will tell me what damage has been done to their developing fins. 

And in other news, I have respawned my pair, simply to ensure that I have lots of fry to pick from for continuing my line. If anyone was wondering what my goal is, its simple. Whites, blues, greens, without red and some marbling is wanted to  the female in this breeding carries some really great genes so I will see what was produced with this male and go from there. here is a video of the pair spawning today. 
https://youtu.be/vuI8RpHAP6Y


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow! Great spawn log! Keep up the good work!


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## wildmountainthyme (Jul 13, 2015)

I hope you get some awesome greens and post pics


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## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Subbing this is great info !!


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

09/26/15 Photos of the fry
Ok so I can now tell you all that I have some really nice blues and some fry showing red such as Cambodian..Im not happy about the red in the fry but hey I did not know the males genetics...sooo I will pick the best blues out of the spawn and breed them and hopefully breed the red OUT.
















The above photos show some fry with red starting to show in their fins. I would have preferred them to have been pure white or to marble out with blue later..but hey beggers cant be choosers I guess.








the above photo shows a pair of DT fry. Now look at the fry on top, notice how skinny it is? It is eating just fine, but there appears to be something on its lower jaw. I have removed this fry to its own container so I can moiter it. I am not sure if this is damage from the killiefish or what. I can tell you that I lost about 10 fry over the last week. I have examined these fry under a microscope and cannot tell you why they died. water parameters are within normal range and should not have contributed to their deaths. they are still to small to have opened them up and looked at their organs. my microscope is not a dissecting microscope anyways..so I probably would not have been able to see much anyways. To be on the safe side I am currently treating the entire spawn for parasites. the least killie was wild caught..so who knows. just because none of my other fish have showed signs of illness or parasites, it could have come from her. below is an upclose photo of the frys mouth. anyone have any ideas?
























now THIS is what I am working for, BLUE!








and another fry showing red 
















ug another reminder that guppy fry are the only fish you should ever train your betta fry with..I feel so bad after my poor babies were chewed up..at least half the spawn shows some type of fin damage! if you did not read my post before this one, I did not have any guppy fry and needed to start my babies on solid, non live foods. So I got the bright idea to use a small type of fish commonly called a least killie (its NOT a killiefish but rather a liver bearer native to Florida). Everything was great for the first 2 days, on the morning of the 3rd day I woke up to find the solo female least killie had chewed up several of my betta fry's fins. I scooped her out and that was that. I learned the hard way. on the bright side, 90% of the spawn is now eating non live food along with their live food..and I promptly went out and got a trio of guppies for the next fry I need to train. 

Ok that's it for photos today. Im going to go out kayaking and collect some native wild fish today.

thanks for looking!

Missina


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## wildmountainthyme (Jul 13, 2015)

Such clear photos! I am very interested in your updates


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Were the fish acting lethargic or breathing heavily before they died? When I was having mystery deaths the culprit was gill flukes. They sometimes also attach to the skin which could explain the mouth wound, and they're super tiny so they are hard to see even under a microscope. I only discovered them after I noticed movement by the gills of a dead fish. What did you treat with? Prazipro works.


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## Blackstar00 (Apr 21, 2015)

Those pictures are amazing! love all the info you are providing us with. I hope all goes well with your spawn from now on.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> Were the fish acting lethargic or breathing heavily before they died? When I was having mystery deaths the culprit was gill flukes. They sometimes also attach to the skin which could explain the mouth wound, and they're super tiny so they are hard to see even under a microscope. I only discovered them after I noticed movement by the gills of a dead fish. What did you treat with? Prazipro works.


See that's the odd thing, no odd behavior. the only one I saw die, just kind of went down to the bottom of the tank like it was going to grab some food and then flipped over..it was so weird. I don't recall having seen anything like this before. And I have had my share of fry killing problems over the years! I scooped that one out and that was the one I checked under the microscope. color, scales, body shape-all were perfect. whatever it was, it seems to have passed now. I treated with salt and some protozoan/fungal/do it all stuff I had in the garage, that stuff was cheap and I got it at wally world after some new fish I got in had ich. but hey, haven't lost any more fry in a few days now! 

The little one I jarred is also doing great. the thing on his mouth is gone, she/he is eating fine and loving life away from the mass of fry. Its also gaining back the weight it lost and now looks nice and plump again 

The new spawn is also doing great. I think there are between 25 and 35 fry in this spawn. so the female is defiantly on the decline as far as egg production and I will probably not get another spawn out of her. So these 2 spawns will be what I have to work with for now..until I save up some cash and order some new adults to mix into this bloodline with. 

Missina
http://missina.net


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

photos and video update for October 6, 2015
Both the 1st and 2nd spawns are doing pretty good. The only issue I am having is that when I work my 12hour shifts the fry do not get fed for an extremely long time. This is having a very bad effect on my baby bettas. Growth rate is down and I have lost some of the older fry to starvation! There is not much I can do though. I do not have anyone who can feed them while I am gone, and I cannot come home on my super short lunch break to feed them. So my first spawn is down to maybe 70-80 fry. I just power feed on my days off as much as I can. I also tested the water yesterday and everything was perfect. ok enough of that, on to the photos.
































the above fry is the ONLY one showing any sighs of being a marble. Its super difficult to see in the photo, but on the top of its head is an area with dark pigmentation. This is possibly the start of a marble color. I believe a lot of the lighter color fry will turn into marbles.

















































and last but not least, the video I shot today.
https://youtu.be/rXthu4-JGew

This spawn has so much red in it. Im not sure what Im going to do with this..I do know that next month is a betta show in Clearwater and Im going unless my boss makes me work. If I get to go, then I will look into getting new breeders from better bloodlines with blues and marbles-without red. 

Missina


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

That's strange, they shouldn't be starving in ~12 hours, even the youngest fry. At 6 weeks they should be able to go much longer. I rarely feed my fry more than twice a day. Unless the higher temp makes that much of a difference?


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## Nimble (Aug 31, 2014)

Those DT fry that you can see in that video look like they have some spinal deformities. I would avoid breeding them for the F2, since they don't look too healthy.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Nimble said:


> Those DT fry that you can see in that video look like they have some spinal deformities. I would avoid breeding them for the F2, since they don't look too healthy.


I can see were you migjt think that. There is 1 with a bent spine that is white, i just have not culled it yet. The blue one in the video was fighting a current and is the same ine in the photos, its spine is fine. 


Missina


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Awesome! I love the double tail fins and the blue. I'm sure you can get some people who wouldn't mind taking the reds off your hands while you continue to work with the blues.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Ok got some new photos, I am now starting to sex them out. The biggest and best male is currently being called "Sparkles"
















Sparkles did suffer damage to his dorsal and top part of his tail when I had the least killiefish in the tank with the fry. He is not 100% perfect, but I really like this color so far.








this is a really horrible photo, but it was feeding time so they were not really swimming still. But this little one is the only one in the spawn that I can tell you 100% is a cull for spinal defect. This one tends to stay towards the back of the tank and does not come to the front very often, always seems to vanish when Im doing water changes or work on the tank..maybe I will end up keeping it as a pet in one of my community tanks?








super difficult to tell, but this is a DT marble. Now if I remember correctly, the mother of this spawn might have some black orchid in her recent blood line..this one kind of looks like its great grandma. 








another sparkly fish








again, another horrible photo but I have not even seen this fry until yesterday. This looks like it might be a black orchid marble butterfly? I am not 100% sure and will not know until its a little bigger..this is one of the runty ones that hides out in the plants. 








and another sparkly fish with some red in her fins








blue DT female, but sadly has red wash in the tail








the biggest female..and don't ask me were the comb tail effect came from. I went back through all the photos of their ancestors that I have raised and its not from the female's side..must be from the males side. 


I also went back through all the photos I have of the mother of this spawns bloodline, I guess a few spawns ago I DID still have some red and Cambodian fish in the bloodline that I was trying to breed out. I just never bred the red fish so I forgot about them. but this is the mother of the female of this spawn:








and this it the male I believe I bred her to:








the female is a black orchid that I purchased on aquabid. the male I got with her was a poor father and ate all of his eggs, so I respawned her into my blue line. the father of this spawn was from a line I started with this male:







and this female:









I later took fry from the spawn in 2011 and bred into them blue and white marble and kept trying to breed back to the marbles. I am not sure if the marble is strong in this blood line or not. but I do see a LOT of throw backs in this spawn. no plakats though. so the male must not carry the gene for short fin or the female didn't get the gene from her grand parents. 

ok that's enough for now. Don't want to over load anyone and I am just drifting through memory lane right now!

Missina


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I love those dt marbles! If I had room, I'd take the one with red wash off your hands.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

been super busy with this and that so I have not posted in a few weeks. I have already started taking out the larger offspring, the females are starting to show egg development, the boys are starting to nip fins and some are already jarred.








This is "Sparkles" the first male that I jarred. He is very happy and growing. He had his top tail lobe chewed off when he was smaller but it seems to be growing back OK for now. one of his sisters suffered the same issue and hers grew back really ugly. 








There are a few of these dark lovies in the spawn 








I guess I have a lot of different colors in this spawn..I don't have a photo of him because he would not behave, but I also have a purple/red male that's as big as Sparkles is now.








These are some of the smaller fry. you can see a marble in the top left of the photo, the blue DT has a huge nip out of its tail..but that's ok. 
























once I notice females with eggs, I have been removing them to my sword tail fry tank were I have some nice red swords growing out. the swords kind of help break the girls up and keep them from kicking each others butts. sadly there tank has poor lighting and the glass has some very old calcium build up so I don't have photos from that tank. but the girl in this photo will be moving in there very soon. you can see the eggs are starting to show here.








as far as color goes, I love this fish..as far as its fins go...well...ya..not to crazy about it's fins..but the color is great.

My 2nd spawn is also growing like crazy. I now have all the younger spawn on "fry crack" and will be switching them to golden pearls soon. I put some koi sword tail fry in with them and everything has been great for the past week. 

















Next weekend is an IBC show in Clearwater, FL and I hope to pick up some new fish..I am kind of broke right now so it might not happen. We will see. 

Hope everyone has enjoyed this log so far. I will probably only be posting a few more times in here as the offspring get larger, and I know their potential. I believe the counts stand at: Spawn 1 has 70ish fry, Spawn 2 has 25-30 fry.

Missina

P.S. if anyone wants to see the photos outside of the forum, they are all posted on my site here: http://missina.net/fish/fishphotos/


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Sorry, on your 2nd mating of this pair. The video posted on youtube I dont see a bubble nest, How does that work, im only on page 2 for now, Have not read whole thread yet...


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Umm Missina. Your last post on the 6th picture the fry in top left it has no tail.


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## wildmountainthyme (Jul 13, 2015)

Kyle15 said:


> Umm Missina. Your last post on the 6th picture the fry in top left it has no tail.


Looks like a tail to me, it's just moved to the side.


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Oh, thanks. But it looks like its in a bitten off shape...


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

This is such a great spawn log. Your fry are growing up so nicely thanks to your excellent care taking. It's great to be able to see all the fish that have gone in to making up your line.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Lovely spawn, Missina. I especially adore "Sparkles." 



Kyle15 said:


> Oh, thanks. But it looks like its in a bitten off shape...


The tail is just curled towards the camera. If you squint, you can see it.


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Ok Fenghuang


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

What lovely fry! I love the dark one near the top of the photos.


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Kyle15 said:


> Umm Missina. Your last post on the 6th picture the fry in top left it has no tail.


Lol sorry for the long delay in replyimg. No it has a tail, it was swimming and the tail is at an angle. These guys did suffer fin damage early on thanks to me, but i assure you their fins are all grown back!

And thank you everyone for the comments. 


Missina


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Kyle15 said:


> Sorry, on your 2nd mating of this pair. The video posted on youtube I dont see a bubble nest, How does that work, im only on page 2 for now, Have not read whole thread yet...


He had a nest, a very tiny one. But they do not require a nest to spawn, the eggs can stay up im the water line just by tention...as long as its not a huge spawn. Once the female was out, the male built his nest up bigger. 

Missina


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Missinasworld said:


> He had a nest, a very tiny one. But they do not require a nest to spawn, the eggs can stay up im the water line just by tention...as long as its not a huge spawn. Once the female was out, the male built his nest up bigger.
> 
> Missina


Cool, How many fry do you think you have now, and are the colors getting like you wanted or still red wash?
Any deformities?
What are you feeding?Live?


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Kyle15 said:


> Cool, How many fry do you think you have now, and are the colors getting like you wanted or still red wash?
> Any deformities?
> What are you feeding?Live?


I do still have many with red wash, but the marble gene is coming into play here and I am very surprised to say that many of the lighter ones that had red fins, don't have red fins any more. The darker fry with red on their fins have turned a more purple color and almost have a red butterfly pattern. I will try to get some photos today or maybe next week. There is 1 male who I am going to give to my best friend, he has the best butterfly pattern out of all of them.

Deformities, well yes there is 1 female DT with a very badly bent spine. There is another DT female that I jarred very early on and she has a very curly top lob- but I do not know if this is regrowth program from when she had her tail bitten off by a least killie, or if it is a genetic deformity. Beyond that, I am still waiting for them to reach their full potential 

At this point in their lives, they get live foods as a treat but are mostly getting golden pearls and freeze tried tubifex worms. The younger spawn is still getting a lot of BBS and microworms though, they are starting to go more for the fry crack and golden pearls and will be switched totally over very soon. 

And on another note, I have a LOT of females in this spawn. I think I have a few males for sure, but I look at them every day and see more and more females showing eggs in this first spawn. I jarred 2 thinking for sure they were males because of their fins, nope they now have nice eggs in their bellys! Sparkles is a boy though 

Missina


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## Kyle15 (Apr 22, 2015)

Cool


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## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

Ok I need to end this thread sooner or later. BUT this spawn is FINALY starting to show me some amazing results. I think I might be pairing up one of the females from this spawn to the male I got at an IBC show not that long ago. The 2nd spawn is also doing great and I can see 1 little DT orchid male that is going to be a looker  so here are some more photos for everyone.








male black orchid butterfly. this guy was a late bloomer but he is starting to really shine. 








Sparkles, he is starting to get some color on his tail fins and a little speckling back on his body. I think he might even start turning blue if he keeps this up








another boy, this is NOT a photo of him in flare so his dorsal fin is turned a little while he hunted his food 








another late bloomer male black orchid. was on the fence about this one being a male but now that he is jarred he is starting to fin out








not the best photo but this is a blue marble probably going to be a buttefly male, another late bloomer








really eggy female








super eggy females! some of the larger females are in a tank with juvenile sword tails








a few marble females. their color just keeps getting better and better!








black and white marble female. a LOT of the clear or white ones are turning blue and white and black and white. Im so excited!!!








group showing off one of the runts in the spawn

and now for some of the fry from the 2nd spawn. This spawn is only about 35-40 fry but they are catching up to their older sibling FAST. and they are showing marble coloring even sooner than the older spawn did. 
















black orchid DT-this boy needs to be jarred today. he is going to be smoking hot!








female DT black orchid








little blue and white marble..I just love marbles 

I have a bunch of males and some females jarred and hanging out in my office. Sorry I don't have more photos of them, but its more difficult to get photos of them at this time. I have them in lees critter keepers. I plan on buying larger critter keepers that are about 1gal each after Christmas. I do not tend to keep many of my bettas like this, but I am having so much fun watching the marble patterns change, that I think iwill keep them for all for a while..then I will be selling many of them at local fish club auctions and trading them with other fish keepers near me. 

Thanks to watching my babies grow. I am already planning for the next spawn with one of the females from the first batch to a HM blue male. wish me luck!

Missina

P.S. If you want to see ALL of the photos in order from spawning to now, they are on my website here: http://missina.net/fish/fishphotos/


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm in love with all of the late bloomers! I think they're the prettiest of all. I'm really partial to black orchids, and I love double tails! I would buy one if I had room!


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

IDK why, but I'm in love with the one pictured first and last from the second spawn hehe so cute!


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