# Buying show betta?



## myprince

Where am I able to buy a show betta? Or a betta whose parents placed in shows? Or basically high quality betta?

I have searched online... And I am not having any luck. I currenlty have a white male that I am bringing back to life. (Check out post in 'Journal' title is 'My Prince'.) I'm looking for a male though that has excellent color and good genes. Well one that comes from quality bettas.


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## MattsBettas

A betta that you buy cannot be placed in shows. 

Show quality fish (for breeding projects, usually) can be purchased from other breeders online- some stand out above others. You can go on aquabid.com and carefully go through fish (some are awful, others are very nice), or you can look at American show breeders like BasementBettas, etc. and buy from them.


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## myprince

MattsBettas said:


> A betta that you buy cannot be placed in shows.
> 
> Show quality fish (for breeding projects, usually) can be purchased from other breeders online- some stand out above others. You can go on aquabid.com and carefully go through fish (some are awful, others are very nice), or you can look at American show breeders like BasementBettas, etc. and buy from them.


 
I'm new at this. Could you explain to me what you mean by 'A betta you buy cannot be placed in shows'? 

After you answer that, how can I enter shows, if I cannot use the same betta I bought? Also is it possibly for the betta to make it through shipping? To me that sounds so rough. I have not bought anything online that is living, I'm very nervous about that fact. Also is there a guide that will help me realize which is better quality rather then false quality? If that makes sense..


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## missavgp

You can't show a fish someone else has bred. In order to show a fish, you have to breed it yourself. So you have to buy a male and female with showing the offspring in mind, so you want a goal for form, colour, etc. And choose fish that minimize faults existing in the partner. Then after you have raised them, you can show the offspring. As for a guide, look through the stickies and other threads here. 

And people ship bettas all the time. See the Aquabid thread in betta pictures.


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## MattsBettas

^ +1, that's exactly right. 

You have to breed a fish to be able to show it. Bettas are generally quite good shippers, they are shipped express or priority and turn out fine most of the time. 

A guide to find higher quality fish would be the show standards of the type you're buying.


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## myprince

MattsBettas said:


> ^ +1, that's exactly right.
> 
> You have to breed a fish to be able to show it. Bettas are generally quite good shippers, they are shipped express or priority and turn out fine most of the time.
> 
> A guide to find higher quality fish would be the show standards of the type you're buying.


 
What do you mean by 'Show standrds of the type you're buying.'?


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## BlueLacee

you have to breed the fish to show the fish. But you can buy show quality fish to breed, you just have to check that they follow the show standards, which are standerds that determins the show quality (if that makes any sences)


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## myprince

BlueLacee said:


> you have to breed the fish to show the fish. But you can buy show quality fish to breed, you just have to check that they follow the show standards, which are standerds that determins the show quality (if that makes any sences)


Now where do I find these standards?


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## LurkerMom

http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABHMintro.htm

I'm starting to research the same thing. 
(with halfmoons anyway)


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## LurkerMom

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/betta-breeding/69116-ibc-standards-2009-2010-a.html

It's amazing what google can do


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## myprince

LurkerMom said:


> http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/betta-breeding/69116-ibc-standards-2009-2010-a.html
> 
> It's amazing what google can do


Wow, if I don't feel lame. It hasn't even crossed my mind to google it.


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## LurkerMom

myprince said:


> Wow, if I don't feel lame. It hasn't even crossed my mind to google it.


lol, it happens to everyone


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## Islandgaliam

Can show quality bettas be purchased just to have as a pet?


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## LurkerMom

if your willing to pay the price I'm sure it can


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## myprince

LurkerMom said:


> lol, it happens to everyone


Recently I have been having a lot more brain farts then normal. I feel it might be because of lack of sleep.

With finding out the information I have, I have chosen to repair the unhealthy male betta I have now. (No I did not hurt him like this a lovely pet store did) and go from there. I want to just work on repairing him before I put him through all this work for nothing.


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## LurkerMom

yea, might not breed a LFS fish though, most of them have awful genetics, but thats just me (and I'm not breeding yet hehehe)

How's prince btw?  better?


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## myprince

Islandgaliam said:


> Can show quality bettas be purchased just to have as a pet?


 I'm sure they can, but you'd be spending a chunk of cash on a stunning betta you aren't going to do anything with.


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## myprince

LurkerMom said:


> yea, might not breed a LFS fish though, most of them have awful genetics, but thats just me (and I'm not breeding yet hehehe)
> 
> How's prince btw?  better?


He's doing a lot better. You should check out his Journal "My Prince" and really see the updated pictures I have found for him.

I did some more research and I'm looking for a Black (melano) Male... I found some from finland but I'd have to ship it to a lady out west and then be able to pick the betta up. And that is why to much. I'm having such a hard time finding a breeder that will send it directly to me.


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## FishWhisperer

Look for chard56 bettas and when you hit 100 post you should buy a pair from him. He has a beautiful stable purple line. That meaning the purple stays all their life and does not go away like others and Chard56 ships in the USA directly to you.


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## myprince

FishWhisperer said:


> Look for chard56 bettas and when you hit 100 post you should buy a pair from him. He has a beautiful stable purple line. That meaning the purple stays all their life and does not go away like others and Chard56 ships in the USA directly to you.


How come I have to post 100 posts? Are his fish show quality?


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## myprince

And I have another question. I am no where close to a transhipper at all? Can someone explain to me what the purpose of having them for? Because I'm so confused on why I can't ship a fish from Thialand to myself?


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## FishWhisperer

Chard is in the classified section and his fish have won shows. Also you do not need a trans shipper.


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## taylorrae

Trans shippers are the ones that the breeders from Thailand have to ship to first (there's a reason why, I think it has to do with live animals coming in from another nation or something along those lines). You don't necessarily have to live near one. They will ship the fish to you once they get it. But you might have to pay them extra shipping fees.

At least that's what I've gathered so far. But I'm new to this as well.


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## myprince

FishWhisperer said:


> Chard is in the classified section and his fish have won shows. Also you do not need a trans shipper.


Chard, now can you give me a link to where I could find his section?


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## FishWhisperer

It's actually in this website. Go to the bottom and click classifieds. After that go search the forum.


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## Vergil

Just really curious about the show bettas - how can you tell you're getting a show quality betta? I mean, do they come with papers/certificates beyond just pet shop labeling or do you just take the seller's word for it?


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## myprince

Vergil said:


> Just really curious about the show bettas - how can you tell you're getting a show quality betta? I mean, do they come with papers/certificates beyond just pet shop labeling or do you just take the seller's word for it?


I believe you have to either take their word for it or look at the qualities of betta your getting. So far I have heard there are standers for show quality bettas.


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## Vergil

I see. I've seen clips of those betta shows where there're fish ranked as best in certain categories. I was kinda expecting there's at least a participant badge for the fish in case they do get sold...


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## myprince

Vergil said:


> I see. I've seen clips of those betta shows where there're fish ranked as best in certain categories. I was kinda expecting there's at least a participant badge for the fish in case they do get sold...


I've never been to an showings, I guess you could say. I would love to go though. I feel like there isn't much going on in the east side of the states with bettas. Where you are located are there options?


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## Vergil

Philippines. Most of the exhibitions I think happen in our neighboring countries rather than in the country though we have a few serious breeders. Every after show season, there will occasionally be an exhibit at my LFS's area - basically we can get some really fancy fish - or so I've been told.

I've never seen the fish myself so I can't say for sure if they're show quality or just pretty finned marbles like the guy in my avvie.


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## trilobite

Best way to know if its show quality is to look at a full flare side on pic of the fish. Heaps of fish are being sold as "show quality" when they are actually just culls or pet quality. Dont trust anyone who says show quality and doesnt show you a pic, you need to be able to see the fish for yourself


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## ASmith1985

Chard has Show fish, I just got two very beautiful pair from him!


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## William Zhong

its the same thing, lol


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## Vergil

trilobite said:


> Best way to know if its show quality is to look at a full flare side on pic of the fish. Heaps of fish are being sold as "show quality" when they are actually just culls or pet quality. Dont trust anyone who says show quality and doesnt show you a pic, you need to be able to see the fish for yourself



Okay so what do you look for to be able to tell it's a show quality betta for the show quality price the seller is asking for? It's almost impossible to be 100% sure unless I go to the show and buy the fish at the end of the day.


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## trilobite

As close as possible to these pictures. ( I prefer the Bettas4all standards over the IBC ones)
















First thing I look for is body, is it strong and smooth or weak and bumpy, one thing I hate is that weird bump many fish have ontop of their head... I will avoid anything with that bump.
And scales, make sure there are no messed up scales

Second is sharpness, are the fins a nice D, with no roundness
And dorsal, are the first rays nice and long or do they look stubby compared to the rest of the dorsal.

If going hm, then do all the fins match up nicely in a circle or are there bits longer than the others. Are the fins too big for the body? How extreme is the branching

ct, are the web reductions nice and even or raggy and messy, also are they thick or thin and weak

Ventrals should be single tipped

Color= can you see red wash or irid wash in a single colour fish?
Is there nice contrast in the bi colour/marbles/multis


Bear in mind that a lot of fish in the shows are classed against whatever else is in the class. So if you have an average fish in a class of even worse fish, the average fish will win and be called show quality. So even picking a show winner might not guarantee you a perfect fish


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## Vergil

Oh I see... That makes better sense. So basically, "show quality" isn't necessarily that much better than pet quality ones?


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## LittleBettaFish

Well if you are purchasing a fish that has actually been entered and placed in shows (I would have thought like dog shows the judges rank the fish on how closely they compare to the standard versus just against each other), than most likely the quality of things like body shape, scaling, and finnage, would be higher. 

There are also things like deportment to consider. An extremely docile fish is fine for a pet, but I believe that this sort of behaviour is penalised against in shows. You want a fish that is active, healthy, and responds with an acceptable level of aggression towards other bettas. 

I see a lot of fish sold as show quality just because they are out parents that were shown and placed. That does not by itself guarantee quality. You always have to look at the individual fish, and judge it on its own merits, not those of related fish.


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## Vergil

So they also judge a betta's temper in shows. Interesting... Yes, I was expecting show winners would get points or such similar to red/green marks in dog papers.

Anyway, if I really wanted a show quality betta or former winners/runner-ups, what should I look for in the breeder/seller?


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## myprince

trilobite said:


> As close as possible to these pictures. ( I prefer the Bettas4all standards over the IBC ones)
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> First thing I look for is body, is it strong and smooth or weak and bumpy, one thing I hate is that weird bump many fish have ontop of their head... I will avoid anything with that bump.
> And scales, make sure there are no messed up scales
> 
> Second is sharpness, are the fins a nice D, with no roundness
> And dorsal, are the first rays nice and long or do they look stubby compared to the rest of the dorsal.
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> If going hm, then do all the fins match up nicely in a circle or are there bits longer than the others. Are the fins too big for the body? How extreme is the branching
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> ct, are the web reductions nice and even or raggy and messy, also are they thick or thin and weak
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> Ventrals should be single tipped
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> Color= can you see red wash or irid wash in a single colour fish?
> Is there nice contrast in the bi colour/marbles/multis
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> Bear in mind that a lot of fish in the shows are classed against whatever else is in the class. So if you have an average fish in a class of even worse fish, the average fish will win and be called show quality. So even picking a show winner might not guarantee you a perfect fish


Wow that diagram was very helpful! Thank you!


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## Basement Bettas

trilobite said:


> As close as possible to these pictures. ( I prefer the Bettas4all standards over the IBC ones)
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> First thing I look for is body, is it strong and smooth or weak and bumpy, one thing I hate is that weird bump many fish have ontop of their head... I will avoid anything with that bump.
> And scales, make sure there are no messed up scales
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> This is not the IBC standards.. the HM and CT are acceptable.. but the PK ones are off.
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> No HM is going to have that kind of spread on 4 ray branching. You should see 8 ray branching and I don't like the curve in the anal fin. Should be level. Model seems a bit short bodied and don't like the hunch in the top line.
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> The CT at least shows the 180 spread and consistent reduction in all fins. Again .. anal needs to be level and body longer.
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> The short fin HM is ok.. but both the trad and show pk need more point and longer vents. FIRST thing looked for in the US is long vents. The first ones eliminated from consideration are fish with short vents. Even in females. Then you look at the points. The trads should be long bodied and have a very long and obvious point. The model needs the vents and point more extreme.
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> The show pk is visually off compared to what a good one should be. The scale between all the fins is off for what is looked for here.
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> Fish are not like other animals. IF a show fish is sold then the much better ones are home breeding. I paid $120 for a black male then imported him .. show fish most often are no where near that. Best to just buy something you enjoy looking at and not be concerned about it being a show fish. You get an old show fish it has been shipped around and stressed. Besides the nightmare shipping can be there is the new water, two weeks without food and if done repeatedly can affect the long term life of fish. I find the females that are shipped to the shows don't tend to egg up and usually are never in a mood to breed. Males very often blow fins. Ammonia builds fast in a shipping bag and destroys finnage and gills. The fins you can see.. gills.. not so much.
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> It takes a special fish to be shown and it takes a lot out of them. And honestly.. as a breeder with a winning show fish I want it in a breeders home. Not wasting genetics as a pet some where.


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## Basement Bettas

Vergil said:


> So they also judge a betta's temper in shows. Interesting... Yes, I was expecting show winners would get points or such similar to red/green marks in dog papers.
> 
> Anyway, if I really wanted a show quality betta or former winners/runner-ups, what should I look for in the breeder/seller?


Showing bettas is NOT about the fish.. it is about the BREEDER. The winners are about what a breeder can produce. A fish may be BoS one show and not place the next. Grand Champion is the breeder that can consistently breed and show fish that most meet the standard. There are no points awarded to fish.. only points awarded to the breeder depending on the placings.

Yes.. deportment is HUGE. The most perfect fish laying on the bottom of a container is faulted. And if only fish in the class DQ'd. No judge will give a placing to a bettas that just lays around.

You want show quality you need to develop the eye or work with a breeder. Most of the stuff on AB is crap. Much poorer quality then a few years ago. None of the crazy colors or funky fins is acceptable as a show fish. Best place for show quality is asking a breeder currently winning for fish. Realize you will get their culls. Winners are used for the next generation so not often for sale.


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## trilobite

Basement Bettas said:


> This is not the IBC standards.. the HM and CT are acceptable.. but the PK ones are off.
> .


Im aware they are the bettas4all standard, those are the ones I prefer over the IBC ones though. Im not a fan of extremely long vents, prefer thick and juicy rather than long skinny ones. Too short looks just as bad as too long though imo
How long are we talking about ventral wise, like this? To me that look only suits a trad


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## Vergil

Basement Bettas said:


> Showing bettas is NOT about the fish.. it is about the BREEDER. The winners are about what a breeder can produce. A fish may be BoS one show and not place the next. Grand Champion is the breeder that can consistently breed and show fish that most meet the standard. There are no points awarded to fish.. only points awarded to the breeder depending on the placings.
> 
> Yes.. deportment is HUGE. The most perfect fish laying on the bottom of a container is faulted. And if only fish in the class DQ'd. No judge will give a placing to a bettas that just lays around.
> 
> You want show quality you need to develop the eye or work with a breeder. Most of the stuff on AB is crap. Much poorer quality then a few years ago. None of the crazy colors or funky fins is acceptable as a show fish. Best place for show quality is asking a breeder currently winning for fish. Realize you will get their culls. Winners are used for the next generation so not often for sale.



Exactly why I asked about the breeder. Thanks for clearing up a lot of things. I really want a beautiful and amazing fish - the ones I've seen and had the chance to own are nice in their own way but I want one of those stunning bettas begging to be photographed.

If it's just culls, is there even much of a difference between non-show bettas from a breeder as opposed to fancier looking ones from regular commercial sellers?


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## indjo

Culls doesn't necessarily mean they're badly formed. If you know what to look for, you can get close to perfect culls - the ones that doesn't fit show criteria (usually color wise). And since you will have to breed to show them, you might produce one or two SQ bettas which you can breed further.



> Showing bettas is NOT about the fish.. it is about the BREEDER. The winners are about what a breeder can produce. A fish may be BoS one show and not place the next. Grand Champion is the breeder that can consistently breed and show fish that most meet the standard. There are no points awarded to fish.. only points awarded to the breeder depending on the placings.



​I don't show thus don't know what is judged. I thought the fish were, not the breeder. . . . it seems very different in my area.


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## Basement Bettas

Vergil said:


> Exactly why I asked about the breeder. Thanks for clearing up a lot of things. I really want a beautiful and amazing fish - the ones I've seen and had the chance to own are nice in their own way but I want one of those stunning bettas begging to be photographed.
> 
> If it's just culls, is there even much of a difference between non-show bettas from a breeder as opposed to fancier looking ones from regular commercial sellers?


You want an amazing fish just buy a pretty one off AB. Most people not in the show world no not like or have a real appreciation for a good steel or red. The show colors are *boring* to most. And the crazy colors and forms they are now breeding beg being photographed as well. 

You have to know the standards and what makes a betta good. IF you do not you have no basis for the appreciation of what they are so any betta will do. I can sell you a fish at a high price and tell you show quality probably based on my reputation.. and if you do not know any better you will get ripped off. Just buy one you enjoy and forget about it being a show fish.


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## Vergil

If I wanted just a normal pretty fish, I wouldn't be asking about show quality ones so please try not to sound like you're lecturing me for sounding silly - or to simply give up. I do read and check online references and I've already seen the diagram that was previously posted some months ago. And while it's easy to look at the pics, it's harder to judge fish in person since I don't have anyone mentoring me and teaching me what to look out for. Show quality fish are hard to find in most LFS/pet stores so it's even harder for me to compare.

While still far off, there's going to be some sort of betta expo in December and I'm trying to get as much info as I can so I know what to look for in the fish I'm getting.


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## Basement Bettas

Show quality means different things to different people. You want the best you need breeder quality. A winner could have had no competition. .. or beat 15 others. It's all realitive. You want quality fish get involved with breeders. If you are serious about quality pm me on Mt FB page and I will make sure what you buy is quality.


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## Basement Bettas

A good place to develop your eye is my reviews on my site. You should be there if learning about form and how it relates to the standards.


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## Vergil

Yes, that's why I plan on going to the expo - they do have a seminar on bettas though I doubt I'll learn everything I need in one sitting so expanding my contacts list is the major reason for going there.

Looking up your site now.


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## Basement Bettas

what expo? If not put on by the IBC or a top breeder you will not get the information you are wanting or probably a selection of quality fish. There is the IBC standards and Joeps. Everything is relative and why I say just get a fish that appeals and enjoy. It is not like a dog where you by a champion. You just get a fish that on any day may or may not be a class winner. I have competitive steels and beat a lot of fish on a regular basis in that class. I also have good blacks but at this time have some poor ones. They have given me points and the only reason they are shown is there is no real competition in that class right now and the line is still not established to give me the consistency the steels have. Breeder standard to a breeder is a very high mark.. and for a breeder to let one of those go it will probably be expensive. I also tend to swap with other good breeders to have a line to cross into a year from now that is similar but different.


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## Vergil

It's pretty much a pet fair of sorts not limited to just bettas but Asian Betta Alliance attends it. They have a registration booth and either the seminar happens there or on a separate date. There are pet expos usually around December so I'm planning to go to one. 

I'm looking at show types since I've had a CT before that looked like a tattered pompom in the absence of fin damage so I want a nice even spread and if possible a cross ray. I've looked at the commercial sellers and their stocks don't really appeal to me - most have rays that are too thin or are already curling. 

If I can't find the fish I want at least I can be directed to someone who has what I'm looking for.


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## Basement Bettas

Good CT's are hard. They are a pain to breed because the fins curl so not a market with the serious breeders. And most others seem to be into the colorful PK's these days. Got to daily watch AB.. and know what you are looking for. Nice thing is they can be had for reasonable price.


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## Basement Bettas

This was a recent import for me.. he is a bit mean and has been eating eggs. Got to try something else. Will breed him to a show female when they get back from Convention next week..


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## brian c

i know this is not related but i have to say it and sorry but WHAT DOES THE FOX SAY!!


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## Vergil

Basement Bettas said:


> Good CT's are hard. They are a pain to breed because the fins curl so not a market with the serious breeders. And most others seem to be into the colorful PK's these days. Got to daily watch AB.. and know what you are looking for. Nice thing is they can be had for reasonable price.


Why I'm trying to get in the Asian and local betta scene. Shipping within this area amongst these breeders costs about an equivalent of 3-5USD or pickups can be arranged. AB is nice but with the shipping, my money travels less.


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## Basement Bettas

Well.. develop your eye and learn the standards. They may or may not have show type quality.


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