# Sticky  Step-by-Step Nitrogen Cycle Guide and Fishless Cycling



## Olympia

Woo, what a long time in the making. First of all, a huge WOOP to Sakura for.. well _everything _she does, and for not rushing me on this, because I took my sweet time. I'd also like to thank my dear friend Hallyx, for all his input and cycling knowledge. We'd be no where on BettaFish without these two sweeties around. :-DAdditional thanks goes to Chesherca, for going through my work as well, making sure everything actually made sense to someone other than myself.

*Things you will need:*
- A filter (Hang-on-back (HOB) and sponge are most popular with betta)
- An ammonia source (this could be pure ammonia, fish food, raw shrimp, or even your fish, depending on the method you choose)
- Plants (if you plan on doing the planted method)
- A small oral syringe (meaning without a needle!) is useful when using pure ammonia, usually a 5mL size is best. These can be found in pet stores in the dog/cat section, or in pharmacies in the baby section, as they are used to measure out dog/cat/baby medicines. _Only needed for pure ammonia method._
-Tank (and possibly bucket for a bucket cycle), substrate, decorations*, *all of which provide surface area for your bacteria to grow.
-A test kit for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. An API Master Test Kit gives the best value over the long run, but strips can also work fine. 

*About the Nitrogen Cycle:
*There is tons of info on this, but I want to sum this up as briefly as possible. The nitrogen cycle is when you "grow" bacteria in your tank, on your filter and everything else in the tank. Fish produce ammonia, which is bad for them, it damages their bodies, causing burns and death. The bacteria consume the ammonia, and produce nitrite. Now, nitrite isn't any better and can do just as much damage as ammonia, so another type of bacteria consumes it to make nitrates. Nitrates are the last step of the cycle, and are much less toxic, but still hurt in the long run, which is why it's important to do weekly water changes of 30-50% in a cycled aquarium.

*First Thing's First- The Method:
*There are five distinct methods for properly cycling your tank that we'll be looking at in this article. Any of these methods will achieve the end-result of a fully-cycled tank, but only you can decide which will work best for your situation. You can safely cycle a tank of any size using the techniques listed here. Some people prefer not to cycle smaller tanks, instead relying on more frequent water changes to keep the water clean. However, if you plan to keep a larger tank of five to ten gallons or more, it will be necessary to cycle the tank for the health and safety of the fish who will be living there.

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## Olympia

*1. Fishless cycle using pure ammonia:*
This is one method of cycling, accurate and easy to follow, if you can find the right stuff! Basically, you want to dose pure ammonia into a tank with no fish or plants. 

*Pros: *Easy to follow, accurate, no risk of mould infestation. Dosing large amounts of ammonia initially allows for a larger amount of fish to be added initially (in communities).
*Cons: *Pure ammonia cannot be found in all countries, there is a risk of other ingredients. If there are no ingredients listed, shake the bottle around. There should _not_ be any foam that looks like soap bubbles. 
Ammonia is toxic to _all_ life, dosing these high levels of ammonia does put aquatic plants under risk.
*Ammonia is an irritant that can burn the skin and eyes. It is best to wear gloves when dealing with ammonia. Always be careful!*

*Process: *
This method is where the pure ammonia and the 5mm syringe come into play. Basically you want to dose at 2-5ppm ammonia initially_. Ammonia should never be higher than 7ppm, this can stall your cycle._ Test for ammonia and nitrite every 2-3 days. Replenish ammonia to original levels as you see it fall down. This is considered the longest part of the cycle process.

Once you see nitrites, you will probably notice they skyrocket up extremely fast, even “off the charts” for your test kit. This is fine and completely normal. Keep dosing ammonia to the required amount. Once nitrites have peaked, it is generally only a few days before they get back down to zero. When you see nitrites going down, start testing for nitrates, which should start appearing.

For your final test, wait until your ammonia is pretty much at zero, and dose to 2ppm. When ammonia falls to 0ppm within 24 hours (or less) your tank is cycled!
Now, do a large water change, 75-85%, and you are ready to add your fish!

*But how do I know how much ammonia to add?*
With your trusty 5mm syringe and ammonia bottle in hand, head over *here*. 
The calculator is at the bottom- “Fishless Cycling- Ammonia Required.” Fill in the information, and it will tell you how many mL of ammonia you need. Be sure not to forget to change the settings to gallons if that’s what you use! The % of Ammonia strength will be written on the bottle.
*_If your tank already has 1ppm of ammonia, just calculate enough for 3ppm to get it back to 4ppm._

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## Olympia

*2. Fishless cycle using fish food or a raw shrimp:*
The oldest method of fishless cycling involved dead feeder fish. This is a recipe for disease, so the change was made to using fish food, or a raw shrimp. These provide the ammonia at a steady rate as they decompose.

*Pros:* Ammonia is released steadily. Good substitute when pure ammonia cannot be found.
*Cons:* Generally only small amounts of ammonia will be released by fish food. Higher ammonia levels can be reached using lots of fish food. Shrimp will give a high ammonia reading. It’s important to watch that ammonia doesn’t get over 5ppm. Shrimp in particular, but also flakes, are prone to moulding over (_see below_.)

*Process:* After you have your tank set up, just plop in your shrimp. If you’re using fish food, crush it to powder before you sprinkle it in. It’s hard to say how much food to use, so you will have to test your water daily. If using shrimp, it’s nice to put it into a piece of clean pantyhose and tie it up. The shrimp will be very rotten by the end of the process and the pantyhose helps keep it together and makes it easier to clean up. 

If you notice the ammonia gets over 5ppm remove the shrimp and do a small water change. It helps to have a strong nose for this method. If using fish food, use cheap food. Ammonia is ammonia, there’s no point in dumping in $20 of a high quality brand.
It’s important to keep ammonia levels in the desired range of 2ppm-5ppm throughout the whole cycle. 

Eventually— several weeks, generally — the ammonia will go down. Once you see nitrites, you will probably notice they skyrocket up extremely fast, even “off the charts” for your test kit. This is completely normal. After that, in a few days, the nitrites will go down and nitrates will appear. 

Once you have a reading of 0.0ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrites, remove the food or shrimp. Congratulations! Your cycle is done. Do a large water change of 75-85% and add your fish. I wouldn’t wait more than 2 days after removing the food or shrimp to add the fish, the bacteria will be fine for a few days but after that it can start to die off.

*A fuzzy white mould has appeared on the food or shrimp!*
This is a pretty common problem, especially when using shrimp. There’s hundreds of species of mould and there’s no point in identifying what sort it is. Often, the mould is harmless. Other times it isn’t. Most often the concern is that it’s the mould that causes columnaris in fish. Truth be told, this fungus most likely already exists in your tank, in small amounts. When you see the mould is a sign that it’s reproducing and its population growing (because you fed it).
An easy fix is to dose Pimafix as required. It won’t harm the cycle so it’s safe to use. Replace any food with fresh food (to maintain the cycle) and once the (mould) is cleared up, do your water change and continue. (Pimafix concerns some as being toxic to betta and other labyrinth fish, however the water change you perform will clear most of it out of the water (only in large doses does it affect fish).

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## Olympia

*3. Fish-in cycle:*








CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.50ppm (alternately, 25% at 0.25ppm), or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled. That’s all you have to do. You can stop reading now. But there’s a lot of...




www.bettafish.com





The above is written by Forum member Hallyx.


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## Olympia

*4. Planted tank:*
Planted tanks are a great way to keep the water healthy for fish. Note, I will _not_ be covering the Walstad Method of the planted aquarium- which on here is abbreviated to NPT and requires the use of soil. Walstad method is different from a regular planted tank, so I suggest you research it before putting soil in the tank. 

*Pros: *Plants are natural filters for ammonia and nitrates (some plants also cover nitrite). Planted tanks are a great choice if your tap water has readable ammonia levels or high nitrates. A well planted tank can be stocked much earlier than a tank that must undergo a cycle.
*Cons: *Well, let’s face it: some of us are not green thumbs. Though I personally have much more success with underwater plants than land plants, so it’s worth a shot! Plants must be kept healthy in order to do their jobs properly, which requires proper lighting first and foremost. 

*Process: *There isn’t much to the process, but I will give a few pointers. 

During the process, bacteria do grow, but much less than normal because the plants take care of a lot of toxins. Bacteria and plants will balance themselves out, and when done properly, you will never notice any toxin spikes. Some plants are better at absorbing ammonia than others- some easy ones include hornwort, anacharis, duckweed and frogbit. Slow growing plants like Amazon sword and java fern aren’t the best for the job as they absorb much less ammonia.

As a starter, you want to look for fluorescent *lights* with a _kelvin_ rating of 6500-7000. Most fluorescent lights will say their kelvin rating, and if they don’t, you should avoid them. Lights can be purchased at pet shops, or even at hardware stores. For deeper tanks, you may want to add more lights to allow more light to reach the bottom. 
There are many special *substrates* for planted aquariums; however these are pricey, and eventually wear out. I prefer to use regular sand myself, though small gravel works just as well for plants. 
*Carbon dioxide* injection works well, but is pricey and completely unnecessary for most plants. There are liquid forms of carbon dioxide, but these again I suggest avoiding, as they make certain plants (Vallisneria comes to mind) simply die. 
If desired, a liquid *fertilizer* or “root tab” may be used, but these are also not _needed_ to succeed. These contain minerals, and you have minerals in your tap water, so with water changes you do keep mineral levels up. Not to say they don’t help, some plants such as Amazon swords truly do appreciate root tabs. 
That having been said, _research every single plant_ before making a purchase. Our shops are full of plants that are non aquatic, as well as “high maintenance” plants that _will_ require high light, as well as carbon dioxide injection in the long run.

A final note- there is no guidelines for how many plants you need for however many fish. My advice, start as heavy on plants as possible and light on fish. Test water and if it stays perfect, you know your plants are doing their job and can slowly raise your fish amount up.

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## Olympia

*5. Fishless bucket cycle:*
A common method, though not often brought up here. If you feel the need to avoid fish in cycling a tank, you can simply place the filter in with a bucket of water and dose ammonia into the bucket. Afterwards, simply place your cycled filter on the tank.

*Pros: *You can dose ammonia to higher amounts in a bucket, which is useful if you have a lot of fish in your uncycled tank. Meanwhile you can keep ammonia levels low in your main tank, reducing stress to the fish.
*Cons: *This will still require many water changes on your part in the main tank (especially if it is well stocked).

*Process: *With your filter in a bucket of water (don’t forget to dechlorinate it!), choose either the ammonia or fish food/shrimp method for the bucket. You can also choose to put any décor items or even some substrate you have in the bucket, for bacteria to grow on those surfaces as well. 
Meanwhile, your fish stay in their own tank, follow the water change schedule of the fishless cycling method, keeping toxins low. Small, frequent water changes will keep things safe for the fish.
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## Olympia

*After the cycle:*
Once you see your nitrates growing and growing, with everything else at 0ppm, you are done! At this point, since your tank is still “young,” it is best to start off with smaller weekly water changes for a few weeks before moving on to larger ones. As for keeping your cycle going, do not scrub/rinse any decorations, or your filter, and do not allow these to dry out! This will only kill off your valuable bacteria you’ve worked so hard to grow!

*Your next fish tank:*
The best thing about cycling is: you only have to do it once! If you ever decide to start a new tank, just throw in some substrate or décor from your cycled tank and you have some bacteria ready to go! You can also use part of your filter media. Up to 1/3 of your filter contents can be removed safely in order to start a new tank. This is a quick and easy way to “skip” the long cycling process. Your current bacteria will quickly take over the next tank. As always, I suggest you monitor all your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels with your test kit, just to be sure things are going the way they should.

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_Well, this is it! Changes may be made in the future, things added or removed, as I see fit._


Feel free to post questions here!


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## Destinystar

Very nice and easy to understand ! I just did a fish in cycle and Perseus was a real trooper to put up with all the water changes, but really he likes water changes and may miss not having to do as many now. The API water testing kit is a must I could not have done it without it and also thanks to Hal for answering so many questions I had. Thanks for the time you put into doing this for us Olympia !!!!

Also using Prime water conditioner helped put my mind as ease since it detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrate but only for 48 hours I think but plenty time in case there were any spikes to do a water change. This forum is awesome !


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## Sakura8

So awesomely thorough! Aww, Olympia, thanks so much for doing this. *hugs*

A quick note to people: originally, it was planned to have Bahamut's diagram as a part of this guide. However, she has respectfully declined to have it added so that is why it isn't appearing. We're all sad not to have it included but of course, the diagram is still available in its original thread on the forum as well.


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## dramaqueen

Thank you, Olympia for all the hard work you put into this guide.


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## Aahnay

Wow, GREAT job! Thank you so much =)


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## puffin463

Excellent tutorial. I am still in the process of cycling a 2.5 gal. tank for my Betta. He presently lives in the Betta tank, not his original bowl.... I've been reading and trying to do the right thing to make sure my Betta boy will continue to be healthy. 
At one point my readings on the 2.5 gal. tank were correct re: the testing strips so I put Fishy into the bigger tank. The filter had him swerving all over the place and after a day or so, he would not leave the back corner, under the filter. As this concerned me, I put him back into his Betta bowl, using partly cycled water and treated water. He has been so happy for about a week. I do partial changes every few days. He eats frozen blood worms and brine shrimp, only tiny pieces a day. He will not touch a pellet even if it is crushed.
I am very concerned that keeping him in the smaller tank (less than a gallon) is not the right place to keep him. After spending the money to buy the larger tank and finding him not happy in it, I am considering getting another Betta to put into the larger tank and keeping my happy boy where he is with regular partial water changes.
I lost my last fish to bloating and am trying to be vigilant with this little guy. He brings alot of happiness to me. I spend alot of time in the kitchen and he puts on a pretty little show much of the time.

Any suggestions are very much welcome before I consider purchasing another fish for the bigger tank.
I wish I had belonged to this group when I had Bettas previously!

puffin463 and FishyBoy


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## wallywestisthebest333

This is AMAZING! I really wish I'd seen the bucket method mentioned back when I was into cycling my tank!
It's gonna be REALLY helpful for my friend though!


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## bahamut285

I guess I should comment because the link is most definitely buried now. They're in my signature


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## dramaqueen

I don't know what to say except that now people will have two options and two different views on cycling.


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## CluelessBettaOwner

Thank you so much!!! I didn't know the bucket method existed!! I was really worried about cycling my tanks with fish in them, but now! I can do the bucket method!


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## Olympia

Thanks, glad it helped!


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## katmandew

This is my first tank and I'm about to start cycling using the ammonia method (fishless). Just to be sure, you are saying NOT to do a water change until the tank is cycled? I have a 5.5 gallon tank, filter, light, heater, gravel and silk plants.


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## Olympia

katmandew said:


> This is my first tank and I'm about to start cycling using the ammonia method (fishless). Just to be sure, you are saying NOT to do a water change until the tank is cycled? I have a 5.5 gallon tank, filter, light, heater, gravel and silk plants.


Yes, no need to do a water change. Unless you put in too much ammonia at first, it should be fine.


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## katmandew

thank you


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## JessYe

Can you give some examples of plants that process ammonia? As well as nitrates? Also, do you know what the nitrates (if it's a nitrate plant) are processed into?


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## Hallyx

All plants prefer to process ammonia first... ammonium, actually. In fact they convert nitrate to ammonia then to ammonium which they use for food.

I think you're asking about plants that really process a lot of ammonia. Any fast-growing plant that you have to trim frequently: these include, swords and stem plants and other heavy root-feeders. Also floating plants like wisteria, duckweed, water sprite. 

You'll get a more detailed and better-informed answer in the plant section of the forum.


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## JessYe

cool! thanks!!


Hallyx said:


> All plants prefer to process ammonia first... ammonium, actually. In fact they convert nitrate to ammonia then to ammonium which they use for food.
> 
> I think you're asking about plants that really process a lot of ammonia. Any fast-growing plant that you have to trim frequently: these include, swords and stem plants and other heavy root-feeders. Also floating plants like wisteria, duckweed, water sprite.
> 
> You'll get a more detailed and better-informed answer in the plant section of the forum.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrazyDiamond

Hello, I didn't want to start a new thread so hopefully I can get some answers here. I completely redid my tank on Sunday making a change from gravel to a NPT with the soil and sand. I left my filter media in a jar of tank water while I made the change but I guess that wasn't good enough because my nitrogen cycle has since broken and I have a pretty serious ammonia spike, at least that's what the test says. My fish are acting normal and don't seem to be distressed in the slightest. I just made a 25% water change and added BB (waited 20 minutes after adding conditioner of course) my ammonia was alarmingly high. How much and how often should I do WC until my cycle is back on?


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## Olympia

Did you follow proper method to make the NPT? I don't have soil tanks but they are dangerous if done wrong. Soil tends to have a lot of nitrogen at first..
If possible remove the fish, keep doing water changes.. Is there just bettas in this tank?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrazyDiamond

There are two bettas and I was careful with my soil I didn't use soil with nitrogen or chemical additives :/


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## Olympia

Even without additives, it's common to have high ammonia for a few weeks. Is that tank not planted well enough?


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## CrazyDiamond

I have several plants :/ they are very happy too lol very green, almost with a bluish hint.
I have nothing to put my fish in while I wait for the ammonia to go down -_- I was expecting a little ammonia but not this much :/


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## Deanna01

Hi. I'm about two weeks into fish-in cycling and did several 25% water changes in a row (3 over 2 days) because my nitrites were scarily high (5 ppm, or as high as the test goes); I also added in Prime with two of those changes. 

Right now, my ammonia is 0, my nitrites are .25, and my nitrates are 5 ppm. My last addition of Prime was about almost two days ago. I should do another water change now, right? The person at Petco told me I was messing up my cycle and to leave it alone, so I'm trying to be sure.


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## Olympia

Yep, I would do another water change, you are almost done it would seem. 

Yea, technically you _are _messing with it, but the fish in there is safer off that way. ^-^


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## Deanna01

Thank you, Olympia! I appreciate the help!


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## Olympia

No problem.


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## crowntaillove3

This is great! I have a question, though:
I have a guppy that is in a two gallon bowl without a filter or a heater (none of my tanks have heaters, but they all stay at about 78 degrees). I did a 100 percent water change yesterday, so the water is all pretty new. I just now learned about cycling and I'm pretty sure my three tanks already are cycled without me even trying to do it (I've heard that this is pretty common.) The ammonia in my three filtered tanks stay at about 0.00ppm. Could I just add an extra piece of décor from one of my cycled tanks to cycle my new tank even though it doesn't have a filter? Thanks! And I am pretty sure that the female guppy in my bowl is pregnant, so I don't have any gravel. I've heard that this is best for when she gives birth, is this true? So even though I don't have gravel will I be able to cycle the tank? Thank you so much for all of this information!


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## Hallyx

If they're producing nitrate, your tanks are cycled.

You need a filter to cycle a tank; to keep the water circulating over the bacteria. It would help to have more than a piece of decor to help kickstart the new cycle. Try putting some established/cycled filter material or substrate in your new filter. 

Bare-bottom tanks cycle just as easilly as ones with substrate. The key is to have enough filter foam or other surface area to house the nitrifying bacteria. It really doesn't take all that much.

Leaf litter (Oak or Indian Almond, etc) makes an excellent substrate for fry.. Lots of infusoria for first-food.


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## crowntaillove3

Thanks, Hallyx!


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## Mohawk

Thanks for the info! I've read so many different guides on cycling that I have no idea if I have done anything right. One site said that a tank smaller than 5 gallons can't be cycled. I have a 1.5 gallon with a filter, live plant and one betta. I'm not sure what the plant is but I think it might be an Amazon? My fish was rescued after being left in an empty house for several days. He was in a tiny bowl that probably held about 5 cups of water, no filter and only plastic plants. The 1.5 gallon tank came with a filter, pump, cover and light which was all I could afford at the time. I put in some of the gel marbles out of his old bowl but everything else was new. I used spring water to fill his tank and he has done remarkably well. I read that water conditioner isn't necessary when using spring water. He wouldn't eat for the first couple of days, except for a flake or two of tropical food, but now eats two pellets twice a day. I have been doing 25 to 30% water changes twice a week, also with spring water. He builds big bubble nests and knows my voice. 
I don't have a water test kit and was wondering if there is a good, relatively inexpensive kit you could recommend. I have a TDS meter, but nothing to tell the amounts of ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. Also, his plant is in crushed granite with marbles covering the rest of the tank floor. It's got a few brown leaves and some of the leaf tips are turning brown. Should I remove the dead leaves? What can I do to keep this plant from dying? Also, on another site I read that some of the old filter should be added when changing to a new filter. Is that something you would recommend?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks


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## Hallyx

A 1.5g tank can be cycled, but it requires close monitoring with a liquid test kit, especially if you're going to try cycling with the fish in the tank.

Most keepers who run such small tanks either perform 2x weekly water changes or become familiar with plants, enough to maintain a "planted tank." In combination with a filter, this is the safest method for your fish and, although more work, is a satisfying part of the hobby for many.

Good plants for a small tank are fast-rowing rooted plants and floating plants. Check the "planted tank" section for more detailed info.

The plant you have is probably an Anubias, right?....a very pretty low-light plant, but not much help keeping ammonia under control.


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## crowntaillove3

I agree that a testing kit is needed. I'm not saying that I liked forking over the $30 that it was, but I'm happy that I got it.


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## Jexx

alright, so i was just going to make a new post but you know what? no I will post my question here. I feel like its been asked a million times before, I've seen the answer somewhere and yet clearly now I am losing my mind and can't find it. SO.
During the fishless cycle, I understand that if the nitrATES get too high, it can stall the cycle and a water change is necessary. What is that amount? I ask because I am in the middle of a fishless cycle using fish food. I am 2 weeks in. My readings using the API Master test kit are as follows:
Ammo: 0-0.25ppm 
nitrITES: 5+ ppm
nitrATES: 40 ppm
Should I do a water change to get the nitrates down or should i leave them?
Thanks in advance!


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## Hallyx

Nitrate >40ppm will slow or stall the cycle. Nitrite >5.0ppm will also, as will >6.0ppm ammonia. 

Time to change water, Jexx; 50% is appropriate.


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## jaysee

"High" nitrates stall the cycle?? How so? 

Nitrates are the final result of the cycle, so if they are being produced that means that everything is intact and functioning as it should. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## shellieca

jaysee said:


> "High" nitrates stall the cycle?? How so?
> 
> Nitrates are the final result of the cycle, so if they are being produced that means that everything is intact and functioning as it should.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I don't know the science behind it but if the nitrates stay >80 for say a week or more it can & does stall a cycle.


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## jaysee

Was 40, now it's 80  what's so significant about a week?

Any empirical evidence? Or a link to some anecdotal evidence?

Sent from Petguide.com App


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## shellieca

jaysee said:


> Was 40, now it's 80  what's so significant about a week?
> 
> Any empirical evidence? Or a link to some anecdotal evidence?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Well, with 80 I'm referring to a fish less cycle, 40 or greater is said to not be healthy for fish. As I said I don't know the science behind it, I'm going by the experience of multiple fish keepers more experienced than I.


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## Jexx

WELL i did the 50% water change and then redosed. today when I tested my readings were : 
AMMO: 0-0.25PPM
nitRITES: 0-0.25 PPM
nitRATES:20PPM

 Obviously the 50% water change worked! I am almost done my cycle. Thanks!


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## Hallyx

Obviously there is no such thing as 100% nitrate in solution. Somewhere along the way the nitrosomonas is going to slow its conversion of nitrite to nitrate. My reading online indicates the consensus is at 40/50ppm nitrate, this conversion slows down measurably. 

I've personally observed that >6.0ppm ammonia and/or 5.0ppm nitrite will stall the cycle.


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## jaysee

Hallyx said:


> Obviously there is no such thing as 100% nitrate in solution. Somewhere along the way the nitrosomonas is going to slow its conversion of nitrite to nitrate. My reading online indicates the consensus is at 40/50ppm nitrate, this conversion slows down measurably.
> 
> I've personally observed that >6.0ppm ammonia and/or 5.0ppm nitrite will stall the cycle.


Yes, I agree with the latter, but not the former. The nitrates in my 125 are always over 40-50 ppm when I do a water change, yet there is never any measurable nitrite. I doubt any of the people involved in the consensus let their tanks nitrates get that high to begin with, for fear their tanks would explode. There is a TON of fear mongering when it comes to fish keeping. Many people just mindlessly repeat things that they read and present it as fact, giving no consideration to the credence of the source, which is often just some person parroting something that THEY read somewhere. It's rampant in this hobby, and it's a shame. It's a shame that people don't find things out for themselves.


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## Hallyx

There is not time in a life to experiment, research and discover all "truths" for oneself. We rely on expert advice continually. It's always been like this; nor could we survive any other way.

In dealing with information, online or live, we soon learn what and whom to trust. If we don't ........


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## Jexx

I tested today and my cycle is complete! 0 ammo, 0 nitrites and 40 nitrates. Thank you again for the advice to do a water change. I am so happy!!!


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## jaysee

Hallyx said:


> There is not time in a life to experiment, research and discover all "truths" for oneself.


Sure there is! tackle one at a time. Unless you are a senior citizen, one can expect to keep fish for decades. PLENTY of time to learn. Of course that's only if one has a desire to learn, which is not true of everyone.


Congratulations on finishing your cycle.

Sent from Petguide.com App


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## SeaHorse

Jexx said:


> I tested today and my cycle is complete! 0 ammo, 0 nitrites and 40 nitrates. Thank you again for the advice to do a water change. I am so happy!!!


Woohoo!! Good job!! Now do another water change cause you are looking to be at about 20ppm. No higher generally. Try to keep it there or lower. The only way to lower it is a water change.


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## Jexx

question, I was doing a bucket cycle. Moving the filter to the new tank will take care of the nitrates right?


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## jaysee

Jexx said:


> question, I was doing a bucket cycle. Moving the filter to the new tank will take care of the nitrates right?


No, nitrates have to be removed with water changes. If the filter in the bucket is converting ammonia into nitrate, then it is cycled, and can be moved to a tank making the tank cycled. It will continue to convert ammonia into nitrate.


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## Jexx

Sorry lol I realized I did not word that properly. What I mean is, by moving the cycled filter to the new tank, the nitrate level should start from scratch correct? the level of nitrates in the bucket won't matter at that point?


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## jaysee

Jexx said:


> Sorry lol I realized I did not word that properly. What I mean is, by moving the cycled filter to the new tank, the nitrate level should start from scratch correct? the level of nitrates in the bucket won't matter at that point?


Once you moved the filter, ammonia would stop being consumed and nitrates would stop being produced in the bucket, and would begin being produced in the new tank.


----------



## justmel

I have several tanks (2 29 gallon, 5 10 gallon, 5 gallon, 4 gallon, 2.5 gallon) and I've never paid attention to cycles or how to cycle. Is there a way to know if my tanks have already cycled? Both my 10 gallon sororities with live plants read 0 nitrites & 0 nitrates. I haven't really checked the others as I have plans to make them NPTs.


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## jaysee

justmel said:


> I have several tanks (2 29 gallon, 5 10 gallon, 5 gallon, 4 gallon, 2.5 gallon) and I've never paid attention to cycles or how to cycle. Is there a way to know if my tanks have already cycled? Both my 10 gallon sororities with live plants read 0 nitrites & 0 nitrates. I haven't really checked the others as I have plans to make them NPTs.


If at the end of a week without water changes you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, then your tank is cycled. If you have to do frequent water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down, then your tank is not cycled.

I would venture to say that many of the people that do these frequent water changes actually have cycled tanks, and they just don't know it.


----------



## justmel

Thank you jaysee. I'll have to test it. I do frequent water changes because I thought I should. I'll start testing the tank before hand and see what it says.


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## jaysee

Most fish keepers don't change the water more than once a week. There's nothing wrong with doing water changes more frequently than that, as long as you are doing it because you want to. Some people enjoy making more work for themselves. But if you are doing 3 or 4 water changes a week because you're afraid your fish will die if you don't, then you ought to find out if your tank is cycled so that you know whether or not you actually need to maintain such a rigorous schedule.

Your tanks have filters? Hopefully you don't throw the filter media out every month, because that will cause problems with stability. I know they say to replace them, but it's really unnecessary. They just want you to buy more product. Sponges are the best mechanical media you can use - they last forever. All you need to do is periodically clean them, when you notice the water flow has been reduced. In addition to saving money, you will allow a strong established bacteria colony to grow that will make your tanks all but bulletproof.


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## justmel

I do frequent, 2-3 times weekly changes, because I thought I needed to for their health. I'm just now learning about cycled tanks and figured before I go and try to cycle my tanks I should find out if they had on their own first. Of course my fry tank will still get frequent water changes, but that's a different situation. I will definitely be testing my tanks to see if they have cycled. Not just to cute back on the work, but the water bill too. I use sponge filters by the way. 

Would you mind me PMing you about cichlids? I noticed you have a few.


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## jaysee

If your tanks have been set up for any length of time (at least a few months), and you do not toss out your media every month, I guarantee that they are cycled. It is just the natural order of things  The only way they couldn't be is if you actively impeded their ability to grow by sanitizing everything all the time and regularly throwing out the media. That's what a lot of people seem not to understand.

PMs are always welcome.


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## crowntaillove3

It's hard to stop from throwing them away when they are DISGUSTING. I mean, they are GREEN. But, you have to keep them in.


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## Wynn

Question about this, I have had a tank for about a week, I am doing a cycle with the betta. I have been testing the water daily and changing it about every 3 days. The current levels read 
Amonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
A few days ago the nitrate was at like 5, is it wierd for it to go that far down with the a 30% water change?
And the nitrite hasn't much gotten past 0, once I think it was 0.25.


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## jaysee

A week is pretty early in the cycle. The ammonia numbers will rise much higher than 0.25 if you let it. Same goes for the nitrites. You should expect it to take 2-3 weeks for the ammonia to peak and fall, and then another 1-2 weeks after that for the nitrites to drop. The nitrates will rise steadily for there.


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## Olympia

I think the nitrates may have been a false reading. That test can be difficult. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stone

I am going to post some info I have on the raw shrimp method, this method has been around for a long time and well It is not a real good practice, sure it will cycle your tank but their are many risks to it, if you think about it it does go against common sense, when a fish dies in our tanks we do not leave them in there for multiple reasons. fouls the water, bacteria growth and well you never really know what the fish died of and what you may be leaving in your tank to fester, I remember when this method was first being passed around in the 90's, but alas here is an article and info on it for all to read and decide for yourselves....http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html#rawshrimp


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## SeaHorse

Olympia said:


> I think the nitrates may have been a false reading. That test can be difficult.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I Agree with Olympia. Cycling a tank can take up to 6-8 weeks so likely a false reading. If you are using the liquid testing kits make sure you shake the "heck" out of those bottles before and during. Some ingredients settle out and can harden on the bottom of the bottles. 2 minutes shaking is recommended.... and if memory serves me, I think it's the NitrAte test that is one of the tricky ones. 
Remember to test your tap/well water to know what that reading is too. That way when you do water changes you know what you are adding. (my water reads .25 ammonia in it from the tap so I do smaller water changes cause I'm adding ammonia and I only use Prime. Probably why my fully planted tank does so well as plants take up ammonia). Having said that... Live plants help protect your fish from the Nitrogen Cycle even if just floating on the surface. Good luck!


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## Horangi

i have a question, if i took out silk plants or other decor or water from a already cycled tank and add it to a tank i'm going to start cycling will it help? also if i just let it run like that for 3 weeks with a real plant will it cycle on it's own?


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## jaysee

Moving decor will transfer bacteria, but moving water will not. The bacteria live on solid surfaces


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## SeaHorse

jaysee said:


> Moving decor will transfer bacteria, but moving water will not. The bacteria live on solid surfaces
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Yes, Jaysee is correct. You can transfer the good bacteria from another tank as it only lives on all the surfaces, like tank walls, gravel, rocks, plastic/silk plants etc. Know the tank it is coming from... you can also get bad bacteria or disease from another tank. Make sure the item does not dry out or stay out of the tank for over 24 hours and do not rinse it in tap water with chlorine. Try to not let the water temp drop too drastically too. I would say that the "good bacteria" is rather delicate so do your transfer as stable as possible. (Like live fish, you don't have to match the temp... but don't leave it at 70 degrees while the new tank will be at 80. know what I mean?)

Any live plant you can add to your tank will help protect your fish. And the fish prefer the live plants over plastic too.


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## BluInk

*Ammonia super high*



Olympia said:


> *2.
> If you notice the ammonia gets over 5ppm remove the shrimp and do a small water change.
> It’s important to keep ammonia levels in the desired range of 2ppm-5ppm throughout the whole cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> **********************


*

I'm attempting my first fishless cycle using raw shrimp. I have two 2.5g filtered and planted tanks (fluval substrate w/coarse sand cap). One tank has a couple pieces of driftwood and the other has some large pieces of hardscape to provide surface area for BB.

I live on the top floor of an NYC apartment building and we've been having a heat wave. Water temps were 98F when I put the shrimp in (they turned pink almost immediately) and were at 88F when I left this morning. pH varies for both tanks between 6.0 and 6.4.

The shrimp were removed 2 days ago and I did a 25% water change. However my ammonia reading is keeping steady at 8.0 (tap water reads 0.0)

I have not done an additional water change because I'm dosing with Pimafix in response to some mould from the shrimp.

I feel a little lost, like maybe I messed up somewhere. Is this normal? Should I wait for ammonia to drop? Any advise would be welcome. Thanks!*


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## Olympia

That's a lot of shrimp for a little water. 

Honestly, if your tank is planted, you should be fine. Not to mention your pH is at 6-6.4.








This is a rough representation of the relationship to pH and ammonia/ammonium.
At your low pH, practically all the ammonia molecules will be present as ammonium, which is much less toxic. 
As long as your pH is stable at those levels, you should be fine with just a small weekly water change in the tanks.


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## BluInk

Whew! Thanks for the quick reply and the info!! Honestly, my confidence was a little shaken and now feels restored. Much appreciated!!


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## Olympia

Yep, take the shrimp out and get those readings down low for a clean start.


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## Sylerwin

Hi! Awesome guide, a lot of options I haven't read about before. I have a question. I'm currently cycling a 40gallon tank. I used to have it set up but I removed all my residents to revamp it all. I saved the bio wheel and filter cartridge and floated it in a bucket of old tank water, and it was like that for a few days. HOWEVER, there was no aeration or movement in the bucket--it just sat in there. Could my bacteria have died off? I had no other source of saved media, all the decor was scrubbed clean and it used to be bare bottom (I recently added sand). I set it up two days ago, and yesterday I had an ammonia reading of 1.5ppm. I currently have 2 fairly large aquatic salamanders in a sterilite bin quite unhappy waiting to be put home. I assumed that I would be able to "skip" most of the cycle time because of the saved filter media but I never knew it had to be aerated. Do you think I may be starting over with a cycle? Or if it is still okay, with no other source of ammonia in there except for a few plants, will my ammonia really SPIKE or will it only get a tad higher before dropping off? Also, would doing a 70-80% water change crash the cycle? I once did a large water change like that and my cycle crashed


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## jaysee

Doing water changes will NEVER crash the cycle, no matter how large.

I have a canister filter that I let sit full of water and dirty media for several months. When I hooked it back up on a tank, it took less than 2 weeks to get "reanimated", converting ammonia to nitrate. If you kept it wet it ought to still be intact, aeration or not - give it a little more time and see what happens.


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## Sylerwin

jaysee said:


> Doing water changes will NEVER crash the cycle, no matter how large.
> 
> I have a canister filter that I let sit full of water and dirty media for several months. When I hooked it back up on a tank, it took less than 2 weeks to get "reanimated", converting ammonia to nitrate. If you kept it wet it ought to still be intact, aeration or not - give it a little more time and see what happens.


So should I do water changes while it's cycling? There's nobody in the tank so I don't see why I would...


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## jaysee

If there are no fish in the tank then it's not necessary. The only reason to do water changes while cycling with fish is to keep the fish alive. However, when doing a fishless cycle it is sometimes necessary to do A water change as the cycling process can sometimes stall out half way through. Doing a water change in that instance will almost always kick it back in gear for it to finish.


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## Betta Free

is the fish-in cycle good? because one: I don't want to go out to buy stuff, do all the measuring and change the water etc. I just don't have the time (and parents wouldn't really allow all that unless I'm cleaning it but I'm worried that my betta will die *tears*


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## fidget

Olympia said:


> That's a lot of shrimp for a little water.
> 
> Honestly, if your tank is planted, you should be fine. Not to mention your pH is at 6-6.4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough representation of the relationship to pH and ammonia/ammonium.
> At your low pH, practically all the ammonia molecules will be present as ammonium, which is much less toxic.
> As long as your pH is stable at those levels, you should be fine with just a small weekly water change in the tanks.


Thanks Olympia! I googled and came up with this really interesting thread-
http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/97638-good-bacteria-die-high-ammonia-levels.html

When I test my tap water, treated with conditioner and without, I get an ammonia reading of .50 ppm. I believe this is because our city's water is treated with chloramine instead of chlorine, but am not 100% on that.
I have one betta in a 10 gallon divided tank with a filter and plants alone, while it cycles and another in a 2 gallon tank without a filter. 

10g tank-
pH= 7
ammonia= .50 ppm

2g tank-
pH=6.6
ammonia=.50 ppm


I treated the water in both tanks with Amquel, which is supposed to treat the ammonia and I added some Atison's betta spa to the small tank today which brought the ammonia down from 1 ppm to .50.
I did a 100% water change on the small tank Tuesday and have been changing out half the water roughly every other day (i did it yesterday). This has really been confusing for me because of the "ammonia" already found in my tap water.

Is it safe to assume that the ammonia in both my tanks is mostly ammonium at these pHs? And is the pH in the big tank high enough to allow BB to grow or should I try to get it higher?


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## jaysee

Betta Free said:


> is the fish-in cycle good? because one: I don't want to go out to buy stuff, do all the measuring and change the water etc. I just don't have the time (and parents wouldn't really allow all that unless I'm cleaning it but I'm worried that my betta will die *tears*


Sounds like you should do a fishless cycle. A fish in cycle is 100 times more time consuming with water changes and what not.


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## Hallyx

While that may be true, you really don't need the high level of nitrifying bacteria that a fishless cycle typically produces, if you're only stocking one Betta.

I must say, fidget, you have a very sophisticated understanding of the nitrogen cycle, as well as it's relationship to pH. Here's a chart that will answer your question of how much is free ammonia and how much id ammonium depending on pH and temperature, another slight consideration.

http://cnykoi.com/calculators/calcnh3c.asp

Both Amquel and Prime converts the chloramine into chlorine and ammonia. Then they deal with the chlorine somehow and ionize the ammonia into ammonium, as you know. Your 6.6pH tank has mostly ammonium and little free ammonia. The 7.0pH tank has a slightly higher percentage of free ammonia. See chart for exact numbers.

I don't think the chlorine conversion will produce 0.50ppm ammonia unless you have a *LOT* of chloramine in your tapwater.

I've been taught not to mess with pH. But dealing with the complexities of low pH, and the difficulties of cycling low pH water, is a question Olympia could answer better than I.

And thanks for that interesting and very informative link.


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## fidget

Perfect, thank you! 
I'm going to have both fish in the large divided tank, provided they like it.
I have a chemistry background (college droupout lol) hopefully that's helping me out. I really want to have a good understanding of what's going on in my tank as well as betta care. Those little guys have really charmed me!
I wouldn't try to up the pH with chemicals- just more partial water changes, if necessary.


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## CarCarGoVroom

Yay, first signs of the start of a good cycle I think. I'm two weeks into my new tank set up.
pH-7.6<-Has been staying at this.
Ammonia- 0.25ppm and continues to drop
Nitrite- 0.50ppm
Nitrate- 5.0ppm


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## jaysee

Hallyx said:


> While that may be true, you really don't need the high level of nitrifying bacteria that a fishless cycle typically produces, if you're only stocking one Betta.


I agree - the tank needn't process 4 ppm of ammonia per day. Is it necessary to dose that high with ammonia?

I don't think the size of the colony is important when compared to the benefit of putting a fish in a cycled tank. Besides, it's no extra work to build a bigger colony to start. Too, that larger colony means a larger buffer to protect against newbie mistakes.

My $0.02 ;-)


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## Hallyx

CC, do a 50% water change to keep your nitrite below 0.25ppm. Watch your nitrate grow. You're on the way.

Yeah, jaysee, that about encapsulates the argument pro and con. Other than an overly large colony dying back and producing ammonia, there is no disadvantage to growing too big of a bacteria colony, as far as I know.. 

But I hate to see new keepers running a small unfiltered bowl for weeks while waiting for their wonderful, large display tank to cycle. I feel this is harder on the fish than living in a low-ammonia environment (<0.25ppm). The keeper has to do water changes anyway. Twice a week is not much harder than once, and it soon becomes once a week. 

It also avoids the complexity and learning curve of a fishless cycle, although I'm all for learning as much as possible about the nitrogen cycle. Fish-in cycling for a single Betta is just too simple and convenient not to recommend.

You can have your $0.02 back. Contribute to the beaslbob build. ;-}


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## jaysee

Hallyx said:


> Yeah, jaysee, that about encapsulates the argument pro and con. Other than an overly large colony dying back and producing ammonia, there is no disadvantage to growing too big of a bacteria colony.
> 
> But I hate to see new keepers running a small unfiltered tank for weeks while waiting for their display tank to cycle. I feel this is harder on the stock fish than living in a low-ammonia environment (<0.25ppm). The keeper has to do water changes anyway. Twice a week is not much harder than once, and it soon becomes once a week.
> 
> It also avoids the complexity and learning curve of a fishless cycle, although I'm all for learning as much as possible about the nitrogen cycle.
> 
> Fish-in cycling for a single Betta is just too simple and convenient not to recommend.
> 
> You can have your $0.02 back. Contribute to the beaslbob build. ;-}


Well let's look at this logically - if the bacteria colony is dying back, then that means that they are starving to death. If they are dying of starvation, then the ammonia produced would certainly be consumed by the surviving, starving bacteria, no?

True that - when it's a matter of keeping a fish in a smaller uncycled tank versus a larger uncycled tank, the larger is unquestionably better.


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## jaysee

Hallyx said:


> Yeah, jaysee, that about encapsulates the argument pro and con. Other than an overly large colony dying back and producing ammonia, there is no disadvantage to growing too big of a bacteria colony, as far as I know..
> 
> But I hate to see new keepers running a small unfiltered bowl for weeks while waiting for their wonderful, large display tank to cycle. I feel this is harder on the fish than living in a low-ammonia environment (<0.25ppm). The keeper has to do water changes anyway. Twice a week is not much harder than once, and it soon becomes once a week.
> 
> It also avoids the complexity and learning curve of a fishless cycle, although I'm all for learning as much as possible about the nitrogen cycle. Fish-in cycling for a single Betta is just too simple and convenient not to recommend.


Well let's look at this logically - if the bacteria is dying off then that means they are starving to death. If they are starving to death, then the ammonia produced by their death would be eagerly consumed by the surviving, starving bacteria, no?

True that - if it's a matter of keeping the fish in a smaller uncycled tank versus a larger uncycled tank, the larger is unquestionably better.


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## rickey

jaysee said:


> Well let's look at this logically - if the bacteria is dying off then that means they are starving to death. If they are starving to death, then the ammonia produced by their death would be eagerly consumed by the surviving, starving bacteria, no?
> 
> True that - if it's a matter of keeping the fish in a smaller uncycled tank versus a larger uncycled tank, the larger is unquestionably better.


I will put fore a different argument, That the limiting factor at high ammonia levels is O2
When high ammonia and high DOC enters a body of water, dissolved oxygen is lost first to the biological oxidation of organic carbon to carbon dioxide and then to the oxidation of ammonia. That is, oxygen demand can be thought of in two stages: a carbonaceous oxygen demand and a nitrogenous oxygen demand. The uptake of oxygen in a body of water is expressed graphically as the classic DO sag curve.
All waters have the ability to replenish a some or all of this oxygen through reaeration created by turbulence and to a lesser extent by aquatic plant life photosynthesis. In high population densities, however, the organic and nitrogen loadings can quickly exceed the capacity of a water to replenish the consumed dissolved oxygen. If all the oxygen is consumed, the water will become septic -- a condition which is not only unpleasant but also uninhabitable to the aquatic life associated with the nitrogen cycle. If the dissolved oxygen levels are reduced by even a few parts per million, the species which normally inhabits the water will be severely impacted. In waster water treatment this is referred to as the ecological balance of nitrogen. It is possible to induce so much ammonia that all O2 is consumed and the ammonia cycle collapse. Of course the is hypothetical in an aquarium setting, we"re not running a sewer treatment plant.

R


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## Hallyx

jaysee said:


> Well let's look at this logically - if the bacteria is dying off then that means they are starving to death. If they are starving to death, then the ammonia produced by their death would be eagerly consumed by the surviving, starving bacteria, no?


Deja Vu. I've read this before, maybe by you. I don't know how much or how fast ammonia is created by starving bacteria. You're probably right: slow enough to be processed by ammonia-oxidizing bacteria.

And, yeah, I used to think it fun to "power" cycle huge colonies up to >7.0ppm/day. I had a giant Betta that could put out 0.5ppm/day into a 5g. I assume a standard active Betta would generate no more than half that. But I'm too lazy to find out.


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## Hallyx

OK, Rick. Do I get that too much ammonia kills or stalls the nitrogen cycle by using up all the O2? If a cycling tank is properly aerated (or planted), the ammonia oxidizing capacity is enhanced. I've had a tank merrily cycling away at >7.0ppm/day ammonia. 

What ammonia oxidizing capacity would be required for, say, a 7-member Betta sorority in a 10g, or a school of 7 Cory or Tetra? Is 4.0ppm/day enough? Because that's what many think is the highest limit of a fishless cycle.


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## rickey

I'm not sure you could realistically reach this level in an aquarium.
It pretty an accepted doctrine that the nitrifying bacteria at work in an aquarium and the one at work in waste water treatment are not the same bacteria. At what level of ammonia do we begin to favor the growth unwanted nitrifying bacteria that compete directly with the bacteria we do want? Who knows.

R


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## SweetCheeksMum

I keep reading you don't need to do water changes on a fishless (with plants) cycle, but my ammonia seems so high I feel like I should. I have a 5.5 gal tank I'm working on cycling (I'm new to cycling so please excuse my ignorance) its been up and running for 4 days. I know there is supposed to be an ammonia spike, but the numbers seems so high for such a short amount of time...
pH-7.4 (which has gone down from the 8 straight out of the tap)
Ammonia-1-2(was between)
Nitrite- .25-.50(also between)
Nitrate 5
So my question is... should I change the water? Or do I just wait it out?


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## Hallyx

No need to change water in a fishless cycle unless the ammonia rises ovae 5.0ppm Same for nitrite. Don't worry about nitrate. What are you using as an ammonia source?

Actually there is no ammonia spike, exactly. The level of the ammonia is determined by the dose you put in (or generate with fishffood, etc.) When the ammonia decreases daily, even when you continue dosing, that's an indication that your cycle is going well. The nitrite will rise to a peak and then decline. This is as it should be.

Wonderful. You're one of those smart people that checks the stickies first. Welcome to the forum.


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## SweetCheeksMum

I haven't been using any fish food or anything as my ammonia source. I thought I read somewhere that pieces of the plants (roots that have broken off mostly) worked too? So I figured I would just rely on the fact I just planted it and little pieces of roots always come off. And they did, I have seen a few. Should I be adding food too? 
Thanks for the welcome  I really want to make sure I do it right


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## Hallyx

You do need an ammonia sourxe. Rotting plant roots will only go so far. Rotting fishfood or shrimp really smell which can take a long time for the smell to dissipate form the tank. It can also foster mold. 

Pure ammonia, that does NOT foam when shaken is preferred for fishless cycling. Clean and controllable. 

Well, you're just cycling a 5g for a Betta, right? First see how long it takes for the ammonia to decline. Watch for nitrite to go up then down. You may have enough ammonia to do a Betta-sized cycle already. Once the nitrite starts to decline, you can put a fish or snail in there to keep the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria fed...and you're home free.

Let us know how it goes.


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## SweetCheeksMum

Yeah, its just for one male Betta  I'm retesting tonight. Those were last nights numbers. I'll let you know how it goes. I appreciate your advice!


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## SweetCheeksMum

Hey again, so my ammonia has come down a little and I think I'm seeing the nitrite spike you were talking about.
Last nights numbers
pH-7.4
Ammonia- 1
Nitrite- 2 
Nitrate- a hair darker then 5
Now that the ammonia has come down some will the nitrite usually follow and come down as well? I still have not added any more ammonia source.


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## Hallyx

Sounds right. When your nitrite goes down <0.50ppm, you can you can change water and stock your tank. Monitor closely. Use Prime.


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## SweetCheeksMum

Hey again, I need some more advice
Last nights numbers-9p
Ammonia- a hair over .5
Nitrite- darker then 5
Nitrate- almost 10
I did a 50% WC last night cause of the high nitrite
This mornings numbers-7a
Ammonia-.25
Nitrite-5 :/
Should I do another WC? Maybe change all of it? 
Thanks in advanced


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## Hallyx

Well, 50% changes are customary. The reason your nitrite is high is because your ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are working overtime. I'm curious as to where the ammonia is coming from seeing as you're not dosing ammonia. The next change, do a really good vacuuming of the substrate.

Keep doing 50% changes daily until the nitrite is <3.0ppm and watch it, hopefully, decrease.


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## 4lpha

After reading your post, I wanted to smack myself. For the past two months, I have had two pieces of lucky bamboo, a clump of java moss and a moss ball sitting a 1.5 gallon tank, just adding water to it when it got low. The gravel in the tank is what is left from a prior 10 gallon tank I had, and after testing the veggie tank, I found that the ammonia was a mere .25 ppm and the nitrate to be just about 80 ppm. I am now doing a water change, and I shall be observing it for the next couple of days. If it turns out that I can fully cycle this small amount of water in the tank (the gravel takes up just about half), then I can be just that much closer to having a cycled environment in a five gallon tank.


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## Hallyx

Hard to do without circulation and aeration (a filter), but not impossible to cycle a tank that size. And I wonder where that ammonia is coming from. Maybe plant waste decomposition?

Do us a favor and keep a log of your efforts and procedures. Please, then post it here.


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## 4lpha

I actually just had a basic plastic cube tank, no lid on it (so the aeration may have to do with the surface area). I guess also the plants were naturally filtering the water, maybe, big guess on that. I do know, though, where the ammonia supply is coming from. I actually buried some dead plants under the gravel to act as a sort of fertilizer (got that from an anime believe it or not), so the bacteria must have fed off of that for all that time. I threw water from the tap as well, dechlorinated for the plants, and my tap actually has about 1ppm of ammonia in it. I have found out pretty quickly that that 1 ppm of ammonia disappears REALLY quickly.


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## beautiful Betta

This is such a great thread, I will certainly be looking at doing a fishless cycle when I am ready to set up a new tank. But one question could you use a raw prawn from the fishmonger. Or where would you get a shrimp? I am guessing its not talking about the small ones in the frozen food cubes.


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## jaysee

frozen raw shrimp will work. It's a smelly method if cycling, so I hear.

Supermarket or seafood store is a good place to find shrimp


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## beautiful Betta

Well I will be going back to the UK soon, and just checked out the online fish section from the Asda supermarket and could not find any form of shrimp, so just thought a prawn was probably similar?


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## beautiful Betta

just had another look actually putting shrimp in the search option. The only shrimp that came up was canned shrimp like Tuna, and it was in brine water. Would one of those shrimps be ok to use, it looked liked it was whole shrimps from the image?


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## Hallyx

Any rotting seafood will generate ammonia -- any rotting anything, actually. I used a shrimp=sized piece of fresh salmon for my first cycle. It worked fine, BUT...

It generated Saprolegnia mold/fungus which I had to wipe off of everything. And it *reeked.* I had to keep cling film on the tank to keep the smell out of the room. It took many months for the smell to diminish. That tank stank for a year...until I broke it down and cleaned it. I hear shrimp is particularly vile-smelling. 

Do yourself a favor and use "pure" ammonia, that does not foam when shaken.

Better yet, if you're cycling a 5g and up, go _fish-in_. By using Prime and water changes you are not in any way inconveniencing nor endangering your fish. If you want to do it quickly, use a live bacteria product like Tetra Safestart, API Quickstart or Dr Tim's One-and-Only.

(One of these days I'm going to have to get together with Olympia and revise this sticky to reflect modern technology and techniques.)


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## beautiful Betta

Thanks Hallyx's I was planning on doing the fish in cycle, and yes I will get a 5 gal minimum, filter and heater. The reason I was looking at other cycle options is that I believe the betta choices in the UK are likely going to be very limited and I am thinking I will likely be doing a import from Thailand. So was a little concerned it might be too much for a import. Do you think it will still be ok to do fish in cycle with a import. Of course I will be on the ball with the water testing, and water changes, probably checking twice a day. I have checked and can get Prime in the UK, so that will help. It's just that I am reading here that the imports are not as tough as the ones already or bred in your country?


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## Hallyx

Don't know about the ruggedness of imports. I haven't heard that. You're on the AB thread, so you would know better than me. My only import is a wild B smarigdina. He's tough as nails.

If you change water to keep ammonia below 0.50ppm and use Prime to lock that up, any fish should be able to handle that. I only worry about new keepers without test kits. 

Just for fun, here's my one-sentence cycling tutorial:

Change half the water whenever ammonia rises above 0.25ppm or weekly, whichever comes first, dosing Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size with changes and 1-drop/gal daily until cycled.


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## beautiful Betta

Very good advice and exactly my thoughts, it amazes me the amount of people that have new tanks. And have no idea of Ammonia and Nitrite. Nowadays what with internet you would think that people would do some research before their fish gets sick.


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## jaysee

Goes waaaaay beyond fish. Seems like people either don't do any research or they get analysis paralysis.


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## Hallyx

It's the main reason the BF _disease_ section is multiple times busier than over at TFK.


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## KSbetta

Hallyx said:


> Don't know about the ruggedness of imports. I haven't heard that. You're on the AB thread, so you would know better than me. My only import is a wild B smarigdina. He's tough as nails.
> 
> If you change water to keep ammonia below 0.50ppm and use Prime to lock that up, any fish should be able to handle that. I only worry about new keepers without test kits.
> 
> Just for fun, here's my one-sentence cycling tutorial:
> 
> Change half the water whenever ammonia rises above 0.25ppm or weekly, whichever comes first, dosing Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size with changes and 1-drop/gal daily until cycled.



agreed, this water cycling indeed is "healthy" way for new tank. Just wonder how the Asian breeders cycle their bottles / tanks - fishless or ammonia or IAL or rain water etc.? Now they even place their betta in plastic bag permanently, wonder if they cycle these plastic bags? Wonder why - they have stronger fish ?


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## Hallyx

They don't cycle the jars or bags. Daily water changes with special devices.

I'm not sure, but I think they only cycle the breeding tanks.


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## beautiful Betta

I am not a 100% on this but also their water in Asia is a lot softer than ours which if I understand all I have read this also make the Ammonia a less toxic form, which maybe how they can get away with it more than we can.


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## Hallyx

Good point, bB.


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## KSbetta

Hallyx, great observations. They know and use a lot of water change instead of water cycling. 
They collect rain water or age tap water, they also use IAL and coralchips regulate water para.
Interesting and contrasting differences between east & west.
One gallon of water ratio to one inch of body, one small bottle/bag per fish that also do well.
Cars and houses in US use to be super big compare to Asia(Hk/japan).
Common denominator is gas/petrol is super expensive, so as all the Chemicals.
We all spend to keep these companies (and fish) very happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tree

So, not sure if this was answered in the past comments. I just set up a 5 gallon tank for my boy Sardine. I just want to know how long should I wait to add in my boy? It's a NPT soil, gravel and six kinds of plants filtered and heated. 

here is the picture: 
http://s928.photobucket.com/user/Treesump2/media/Fish/IMG_3820.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


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## Hallyx

What are yo8ur readings?


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## Tree

The ammonia is getting pretty high in the readings, like around .25 to .50 but I did add plant food into the tank and used prime. =) I added some of my old water and filter into the new tank so it should be cycled in a week or so? I am going to do an everyday water change since I already added my boy in the tank. ^_^


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## BlueLacee

Amazing, perfect. Thanks for all the work you put into this


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## Hallyx

The old water won't do much, not much bacteria in there. The old filter will help.
You probably don't need a daily wc. Just when ammonia gets up around 0.50ppm. With Prime every day you can go higher, even.


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## GoodGuyKhan

Hello good people. Been having issues with my ten gallon cycling. Keeping in mind this is my first time cycling and all that is in the tank are some Marimo Mossballs, gravel, and Java Moss. At this point ammonia is anywhere from .25 ppm to 1 ppm, nitrites are higher than the API master kit can provide, and nitrates are currently at 40 ppm after a 10 percent water change yesterday. It's been about a week since nitrites spiked and ammonia had been receding, slowly. Nitrates have gone as high as 80 ppm. I've stopped feeding the tank, doing a fishless cycle using fish food and sparring ammonia in the beginning, and wondering if I did something wrong. Cycling began April 30th so.... yeah. Not sure where to go from here or if I'm actually on track with everything. Thanks in advance.


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## Hallyx

High nitrite can slow the cycle. Do larger wc's (50%) to get your nitrite under control (<5.0ppm). That will also cut your nitrate down. 

Then dose your ammonia >1.0ppm again and see where everything goes.


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## GoodGuyKhan

Question on the wc's. I changed yesterday and opted to only use a a small pinch of food rather than pure ammonia. I changed roughly 40 percent and had ammonia hit zero and nitrites go to 2-5 ppm. Checked to day, amount of food used was no more than 4 pellets, and ammonia is back to 1ppm and nitrites went towards that pinkish colour. I'm using Prime and API master kit. Don't know if the small pinch of food caused that large of a spike or if there's something else skewing the test. Or do I need to just do large wc's everyday?


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## Hallyx

No reason to fowl the tank with fish-food when you have pure ammonia. It's also easier to control the dose.

No reason to do a large wc every day, just when nitrite goes >5.0ppm.


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## GoodGuyKhan

So yeah was doing water changes when ammonia was too high and now ammonia has remained at .5 ppm, nitrites .25/ .5 ppm, and nitrates between 0and 5 for the last three days. Assuming cycle's been broken? Or? Also it's been about 35 days cycling.


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## Hallyx

The cycle is not a machine. There are always variables; water is always different from person to person, even tank to tank. As long as you're getting movement, the bacteria are trying to colonize. 

Patience. Thirty-five days is not a rule. I've had tanks cycle in 3-weeks. Others took over 6-weeks.


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## GoodGuyKhan

Appreciate the words of wisdom. Frustration is defitely setting in now though, checked today and the ammonia is at 2 but nitrites and nitrates have gone to zero. I must've done the gravel vacuuming wrong.


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## KSbetta

Wonder what would happen if we add Hydroponic Fertilisers like General Hydroponic's products (Genhydro.com) which contain nutrients for plants? 
Would these micro and macro nutrients be better than fish-foods or ammonia etc?


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## Hallyx

Better for plants, certainly. But nitrifying bacteria need their own food --- ammonia, then nitrite. 

Plants help by reducing the need for large colonies of bacteria.


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## Olympia

Oh hey.. what a good read.. amazing how much info can slip out of your mind in a few months if you don't keep using it. I've learned a lot. ;-)


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## Hallyx

*The Following User 
Says Thank You to 
Olympia For 
This Useful Thread:  
Hallyx*


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## Jonthefish

I was wondering , instead of cycling can you just use a nitrifying bacteria like this one ? ( a set with conditioners & the bacteria ) 

http://t.petco.com/product/111520/Microbe-Lift-Aquarium-Cycling-And-Water-Conditioning-Kit.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch

In other words , Im getting a fancy goldfish on Friday , and getting the bacteria , I could throw the bottle in while the fish is acclimating , and then safely put the fish in the water ?


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## Hallyx

"Cycling" is the activity of multiplying nitrifying bacteria.

NiteOutII contains the right bacteria to cycle your tank. If it's like similar products, the tank is dosed when the fish is put in. Check the directions.


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## aWitch4Harry

*nitrites are driving me crazy*

I have a 3 gallon tank with 1 beta, a snail, a dwarf cat fish and a few ghost shrimp. I have 2 plants and recently introduces a "faux" fluval moss ball that is supposed to help with reducing nitrites and other nasties like phosphates (it got really good reviews on Amazon). My filter contains a aqua clear foam filter, diamond blend activated carbon/ammonia neutralizing crystals and biomax so I can sustain my bacteria colony. I have been testing my water daily and I see that I have no levels of ammonia but the nitrites are approaching 5 ppm! I have been doing daily water changes at around 30%, using the appropriate level of aquarium salt with each change. I recently started also dosing with Seachem Prime which gets RAVE reviews on Amazon to assist with the nitrite reduction - this is also a declorinator, removes ammonia, replenishes the stress coat, just an all around great product. I am still testing daily but I do not see any reduction in my nitrite levels - I seem to notice that the nitrates are creeping up which indicates that I am about half way through my cycle. None of my little fishy friends seem to be negatively impacted by these high nitrite levels but I am still concerned. The tank has been up for about a month, so I am sure I am still cycling. That being said, I have read that some people find it difficult to fully cycle such a small tank so I am not sure what my next steps are. Any ideas? I am using test strips so that may be part of the issue and I need to upgrade to the API kit. I also tested my tap water after 24 hours of sitting out and it showed no signs of ammonia, nitrites or nitrates so this is clearly a tank issue. (I also have horribly hard water and I am not so sure what I can do about that).


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## Hallyx

You can expect nitrite at this stage of the cycle. Use a double dose of Prime to help detoxify it. And do 50% water changes as necessary to keep it below 0.50ppm. _Never_ let it get anywhere near 5.0 ppm with livestock in the tank. A mossball doesn'y grow fast enough to have a measurable effect on the water quality. You need lots of fast-growing plants for that.

Dose Prime @ 2-drops per gal of tank size with every water change. Dose Prime @ 1-drop per gal of tank size daily until the cycle is complete.

Can you get a reading of your water hardness. We'd like to know the pH, the GH and the KH before we suggest how to deal with it, if it's even necessary.

You don't want ammonia-neutralizer in your filter (or anywhere else). Prime detoxifies ammonia but it still feeds the bacteria you're trying to grow. Charcoal is harmless. But you're better off replacing it with aquarium sponge. Wait until the tank is cycled for a few months before you replace it. What brand of filter are you running?

You will get a more accurate reading of your water quality with a liquid test kit. Most of us use this one: Amazon.com : API Freshwater Master Test Kit : Aquarium Test Kits : Pet Supplies


Can you have your water tested (maybe at your LFS) for pH, GH and KH. This will help us determine if anything needs to be done about your hard water.

A 3gal tank is not harder to cycle than any other size, but ammonia and/or nitrite can build up fast. You really have to keep a close eye on it.

Your tank is overstocked by quite a bit. Even too much for a 5g, in my opinion. A Betta and shrimp is OK for a 3g. Maybe a Betta and small snail. But certainly not another fish plus all that. At least get the catfish (what kind?) and the snail into another tank, please, for the long-termhealth of your livestock.


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## nel3

I put a deep blue sponge filter (with air stone) in my 3.4gKK with my EE delta betta. its been almost 2 days to the month that ive started the cycling. I did a 50 wc on the 5/8/14 and ive been testing the water every few days. im reading 0 ammonia and nitrite. I do have 5ppm nitrate atm. is my tank cycled yet and is the nitrate a bit too high for the fish? its been a while since I had to cycle a tank, the last was my 5g tank and that was at least 1 year ago. I do have plans to add a sponge filter and air stone/pump on my other 3.4gkk.

can someone please remind me of the safe water parameters for a fish I cycle?


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## Hallyx

Hi, Nel. You're an old-timer now. Older than me, even.

Do a 50% wc whenever ammonia or nitrite rise >0.50ppm, or weekly, whichever comes first. Dose Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size with every wc and 1-drop/gal daily until cycled.

Don't worry about nitrate. You have to be massively overstocked before it will stay above 20ppm where it starts getting unhealthful.


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## nel3

Hallyx said:


> Hi, Nel. You're an old-timer now. Older than me, even.
> 
> Do a 50% wc whenever ammonia or nitrite rise >0.50ppm, or weekly, whichever comes first. Dose Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size with every wc and 1-drop/gal daily until cycled.
> 
> Don't worry about nitrate. You have to be massively overstocked before it will stay above 20ppm where it starts getting unhealthful.


ty for the reply Hallyx, I doubt 3 years on a board is old timer but its not the longest membership ive had to a forum so far. there's a forum where ive had an acct since march 16 2006.

i'll keep an eye out for any nitrite, I did register 0.25 ppm ammonia at times but I do a wc if it hits .5ppm amm. prime is the usual conditioner I use anyway and an 11fl oz bottle should last some time lol.

nitrite is the last step if I remember correctly and what might be the safe levels again? I didn't know I could dose 1 drop/1g prime for a cycling tank. I relied on normal WCs when I did the 5g tank. I just added 3 drops to the KK just now so that should be ok for today.


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## Hallyx

Keep nitrite below 0.50ppm also. 

You know what you're doing. I recommend that 1-drop/day of Prime as security. You know Prime's protection wears off in 24 to 48 hours. Seachem recommends 2-drops/gal every other day for a cycling tank. I think 1-drop/day is safer.


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## nel3

Hallyx said:


> Keep nitrite below 0.50ppm also.
> 
> You know what you're doing. I recommend that 1-drop/day of Prime as security. You know Prime's protection wears off in 24 to 48 hours. Seachem recommends 2-drops/gal every other day for a cycling tank. I think 1-drop/day is safer.


ty Hallyx, I don't mind putting some prime for security anyway. I found last time when Nitrites start showing that it could take 70% wc to get the parameters to safe levels. anything to keep extreme levels from showing is a good idea.


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## Hallyx

As far as I can determine, Prime does not effect readings at all. Both ammonia and nitrite are still there at the levels you read. The ammonia is locked in a harmless molecule -- also part of the nitrite, according to Seachem. 

They say a large (indefinite) dose deals with nitrite in much the same way. I'd do a water change.


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## nel3

Hallyx said:


> As far as I can determine, Prime does not effect readings at all. Both ammonia and nitrite are still there at the levels you read. The ammonia is locked in a harmless molecule -- also part of the nitrite, according to Seachem.
> 
> They say a large (indefinite) dose deals with nitrite in much the same way. I'd do a water change.


I would also rely on WC to cut down the water parameters without.

I think prime might interfere with some water tests kits but its not a thing im much concerned with.


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## anitsirk92

Do moss balls form good bacteria on them? If i put a few moss balls from an already cycled tank into a new tank will that help to speed up the cycling process?


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## yogosans14

My 2 guppies died last night trying to fish in cycle 

Ill have to continue fishless


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## Hallyx

Mossballs, decor, anything with bacteria on it will help start the cycle -- but only a little. The best help is filter media or gravel from a cycled tank placed in the filter of the new tank, or in the flow.

What were your readings, yogo?


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## yogosans14

Right now I have .25-.50 ammonia


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## afirose333

This guide has been so helpful!

I'm new to this aquarium hobby. And there's sooo much info out there. Which was a little overwhelming. I was so glad to find this forum. This post was perfect and on point. I decided on a fishless cycle using a piece of shrimp in a pantyhose. Hoping for the best! My ammonia levels are now up to 4ppm, just waiting patiently for those Nitrites.


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## Slt

I'm having a terrible time getting my 10-gal tank to cycle.

It's been up and running for about 7 weeks. I have one (neurotic) betta in while I'm cycling. It took about 4 weeks for ammonia to show up, spike & go back down. During that time I was changing 20%-25% of the water every to every other day. Not a big deal

The last 2-3 weeks have had huge nitrite readings. I've been changing 20-25% of the water twice a day. Last week I had to go away for 30 hours so I did one large water change before I left, and came home to super high nitrite and a lot of tail biting damage. Nitrite levels are frequently getting to 2-5ppm after just 12 hours. This seems excessive. Is this normal in other peoples experience? 

I'm going to do what it takes to keep my little guy healthy, but the twice daily water changes are slowly driving mad. I've tried adding some quickstart but that didn't seem to do anything. Please tell me there is light at the end of this tunnel!

my ph is higher, around 8.0
temp is kept at 80

I keep the tank light off since my betta seems to hate it. I have an air stone that I turn on occasionally but it doesn't run 24/7. I also have a few IALs in the tank.

I've tried to reduce feeding some, but that also seems to encourage my guy's tail biting, so that didn't last. He gets 3-5 pellets a day.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be hugely appreciated.


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## Hallyx

Afirose, you don't need the ammonia any higher that 4.0ppm. In fact, that's the level you'd use for cycling a tank for a large bioload community. I'd suggest you remove the shrimp as soon as you see _any_ nitrite. Keep the nitrite below 4.0ppm with water changes. Don't worry about nitrate. You'll be doing a large (75%) water change as soon as nitrite gets to 0.0ppm. That will cut the nitrate down to aceptable levels.

Slt, try to keep nitrite below 0.50ppm. Use a triple dose of Prime to detoxify nitrite. Changing water chemistry (as during a cycle) can stress some fish. It's not dangerous to his health otherwise. 

Persistent nitrite is a nuisance. Nitrite is produced through the oxidation of ammonia by the cycling bacteria. You have a large ammonia source somewhere creating that nitrite. Keep the tank as clean a you can, siphon waste regularly, and feed as lightly as he'll put up with.

Ammonia and nitrite are more toxic the higher the pH. That 8.0pH is a little high, so make sure you dose Prime with every water change and a couple drops per gallon daily until the nitrite goes down. 

Cycling a 10g with the ammonia produced by only one Betta can take some time. Stick with it. It's worth it in the long run.


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## Slt

Thanks for the encouragement hallyx

I didn't want to post the photo since I can't resize on this computer, but here's a link to my ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests. I had changed 25% of the water 12 hours earlier

http://31.media.tumblr.com/5756fa2ce1ec1d6b48eaa852ec75363c/tumblr_ncqk1jXZqP1sitb2ro1_1280.jpg

my tap readings are pH 8.0, ammonia 0-0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-5


after I did the above test I changed 25% of the water, refilled with tap and then changed 25% again immediately after. It brought the nitrite down to 0.25. Once again 12 hours later I tested the water this morning and nitrite is back up in the 2-5 range (hard to tell the color apart when it gets that high). If there isn't that much ammonia in my tap, how in the world could one little fish produce that much waste in 12 hours?


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## Hallyx

Your AOB (ammonia oxidizing bacteria) are working overtime converting ammonia to nitrite. NOB typically takes longer to emerge. 

Somewhere in your tank is something producing ammonia. An average-sized well-fed, active Betta might put out 0.50ppm ammonia/gal/day at the most.


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## afirose333

Hallyx said:


> Afirose, you don't need the ammonia any higher that 4.0ppm. In fact, that's the level you'd use for cycling a tank for a large bioload community. I'd suggest you remove the shrimp as soon as you see _any_ nitrite. Keep the nitrite below 4.0ppm with water changes. Don't worry about nitrate. You'll be doing a large (75%) water change as soon as nitrite gets to 0.0ppm. That will cut the nitrate down to aceptable levels.


Wow ok. So my nitrites got to 0.5ppm yesterday. Today they are back to zero. Did the extra high ammonia kill the cycle?  (I started cycling the tank 9/27 btw.)

I'll remove the shrimp asap. Should I then do a large water changes, introduce a small amount of ammonia, and see what happens from there? Ooor... ugh, you can tell I'm new to this. Haha *sigh*


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## Hallyx

Ammonia @ 4.0ppm usually doesn't slow the cycle. 

Keep checking nitrite. That doesn't sound like much of a spike --- and it's too early. 

Check for nitrate. It should rise slowly over a few days.


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## afirose333

Hallyx said:


> Ammonia @ 4.0ppm usually doesn't slow the cycle.
> 
> Keep checking nitrite. That doesn't sound like much of a spike --- and it's too early.
> 
> Check for nitrate. It should rise slowly over a few days.


Alright thank you. I panicked for a sec there. LOL
I'll give it some time. And maybe check back in next week. Thanks again.


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## afirose333

Okay so I removed the shrimp and let the tank sit a day. After that I checked and the ammonia had rocketed up to 8ppm according to my API liquid kit. I did a 50% water change to cut it back. It was 3-4ppm after that. A week and a half went by with not a blip. Then over the last couple days the nitrites and nitrates have been rising, and the ammonia has been dropping. Tonight the nitrite and nitrate rocketed up to off the chart levels. And there is ZERO ammonia. Now I know thats whats desired. BUT because the shrimp is removed, theres not a continuous source of ammonia for the nitrites. So if the nitrites start to drop will it be because the cycle is complete or because it stalled with no ammonia source? Should I add an ammonia source (ie crushed fish food or stick another reeeeally tiny piece of shrimp in there), to allow the cycle to continue? I'm stumped again.

Thank for an help in advance guys!


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## Fawneh1359

Olympia said:


> *
> Process: So, fish have been added. They will produce the ammonia to get the cycle going. If you choose to do a fish in cycle, it is best to start with a small amount of fish in the tank to keep things under control. Doing 25% water changes whenever ammonia hits .25ppm is recommended. There will still be minute amounts of ammonia starting your bacterial colony, even after water changes. Eventually, nitrites will start showing up. Again, 25% water change whenever nitrites hit .25ppm. Once you start seeing nitrates, you know you have made it through the cycle with your fish!
> 
> 
> 
> My betta has been active and happy even in the cup he was in before I moved him. He seems happy throughout this cycle also. But I bought an API ammonia testing kit. I didn't see anything about nitrite nor nitrate in PetSmart, so what should I do? Go to PetCo and see of the have any? Cause apparently PetCo is a LOT better than PetSmart, at least from what I can see. *


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## Hallyx

ishless cycles are a little funny at this stage. I would let the nitrite go down below 0.50ppm. 

Then put in the shrimp until you see about 2.0ppm ammonia. Take it out and watch the cycle go round. If you can do this twice in two or three days, you're cycled.


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## Fawneh1359

Don't full water changes take away the bacteria from fish-in cycles?


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## afirose333

Hallyx said:


> ishless cycles are a little funny at this stage. I would let the nitrite go down below 0.50ppm.
> 
> Then put in the shrimp until you see about 2.0ppm ammonia. Take it out and watch the cycle go round. If you can do this twice in two or three days, you're cycled.


Update

I did 1 gallon water change after I left the post about no ammonia anymore. Just because I swapped out my heater and didn't want to worry about the water level while changing it out. The next day the nitrite had dropped to 2ppm. This afternoon I checked the nitrite and ammonia. Now there is currently no ammonia AND no nitrite. This all seems really fast to me. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong. I'll stop by the grocery on the way home and get more shrimp. Test it out the way you said, and I guess we'll see!

Thank you so many for your guidance!


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## Hallyx

Sometimes it takes a while for the nitrite oxidizing bacteria to take hold and start working. But when they do, it can happen really fast.

There is a small amount of bacteria in the water as it blows around and spreads throughout the tank. But most of it is found sticking to surfaces, like in the filter on the walls, plants and decor ... and even on the livestock.

Changing water-- even large changes -- has little or no measurable effect on the cycle.


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## Fawneh1359

Okay, thank you. I left a bit less than a gallon probably of old water but washed the plants and such so it should be fine. Now I just have to hug nitrite and nitrate kit since my API kit is only ammonia


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## afirose333

Hallyx said:


> Sometimes it takes a while for the nitrite oxidizing bacteria to take hold and start working. But when they do, it can happen really fast.


After I got home that night I added half a cocktail shrimp (which is still in there now). Because a whole one brought on 4ppm ammonia, I thought I'd just do half to get the 2ppm as recommended. 24 hours later the nitrites went up to 0.25, but the ammonia barely raised. And I mean like the ammonia was more than zero but less than 0.25. lol
After that I checked every 12 hours. Since that little spike it's been zeros all around. (Nitrate levels definitely say I need a water change though. lol)
Is it safe to assume my tank is cycled? Or should I have added a whole shrimp to really get an ammonia kick?


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## Hallyx

The readings for a cycled tank: ammonia= 0.0ppm, nitrite= 0.0oon, nitrate increasing slightly between water changes. Sounds like your tank is cycled.


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## afirose333

Hallyx said:


> The readings for a cycled tank: ammonia= 0.0ppm, nitrite= 0.0oon, nitrate increasing slightly between water changes. Sounds like your tank is cycled.



Thank you so much for all of your help along the way Hallyx.
Guess I might be getting a little boy this weekend! :-D


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## dengveevi

*Question.*

So this might be a dumb question. Recently, I did a dumb thing by introducing a betta which looked healthy into a fully cycled tank. He ended up really sick and is now quarantined in a hospital tank. My fishes are all doing great but I have lost some shrimp and snails. I was wondering if I wanted to disinfect the whole tank, would it be smart to re-cycle the tank? Can filter pads and decor carry diseases on it?


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## Hallyx

Yes. As well substrate, plants and tank surfaces. 

If things are dying in your tank, and you don't know why, it's probably best to tear it down, toss the substrate and media, wash everything else in vinegar, at least, then rebuild. 

Cycling is no big deal. You've already done it once. Right? CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


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