# Has anyone done this yet



## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Crossing a giant male hmpk to a female hm.....
Back in the day....
When I cross a male hmpk to female hm....
The babies turn out hm n super delta....
Was wondering if the offspring of that cross will turn out big with long fin....


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

If you make a Dihybrid cross, I got approx. all fry will be normal body size (unless Giant id a dominant trait, then they will be mostly larger), and since both HM and HMPK are recessive genes, you'll probably have co-dominance and end up with a bunch of HM and Delta.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

that was confuseing to read............ y is ur name curlyfatass?????


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Growing up n having wavy hair...
As a Asian kid.....
A few of friend call me curly....
Then my tooth pick brother call me fatass....
So I put the two together....
N got Curlyfatass.....


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

thats HORRIBLE!!! lol... i shlda thot of that dang it!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Ok ok....
So that mean I have to cross the biggest male n female together from the spawn...
If I want a giant hm.....
By f4 I can get a decent size hm....


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

well if we're going to talk about it - your username is not very appropriate for this forum. and the way you type is very hard to read.

as for your question, I'm sure it's been done. You'd likely end up with 1/4 or 1/2 giants


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> Ok ok....
> So that mean I have to cross the biggest male n female together from the spawn...
> If I want a giant hm.....
> By f4 I can get a decent size hm....


Yes that seems to be correct. I'm not positive if Giant is a dominant or recessive gene (because it's so new), but I would just breed the biggest ones you have if you're going for a Giant HM.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

it could be read as curly-fat-as-"s"
its all good


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Or cross the offspring of the giant hmpk n hm back to giant hmpk....
But that will end up where I stared....
Dang hope it don't take more then two year of breeding to get a giant hm.....
Wondering will it hit 7 in....
If so I b needing bigger jar for them....
More like each male will b in a ten gallon tank....


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

i like how good u r at ingoreing ppl lol


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> Or cross the offspring of the giant hmpk n hm back to giant hmpk....
> But that will end up where I stared....
> Dang hope it don't take more then two year of breeding to get a giant hm.....
> Wondering will it hit 7 in....
> ...


Yeah it would take about a year an a half (maybe less) to get to F4. 
What was your goal in breeding? To make Giant HM or Giant HMPK? Lol, those Giant fry are going to need ~5 gals each ><
I'd like to see some Giant HM out on the market. They all tend to be HMPK. :/


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Not trying to ignore anyone, using my gay phone to sure the net.
The 3G is so slow compare to the lap top. Won't find out if anyone post anything until I recieve a message on my yahoo account.
Sorry if my screen name offend anyone.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

u seem frndly enuff....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

My goal are giant. Develop my own line of hm, big ear, dt, ct(king crown) and one with all the trait hmdtct big ear


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

MistersMom said:


> u seem frndly enuff....


o____o what...does that have to do with anything? lol. 

Curly- Oh! Nice! Hmm I'm not sure where to start on that one...that project will def. take some time to get to the main goal.  I wish you good luck on your endeavor my friend!


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

no clue, i just said it lol. so i ever say sane things ??? lol


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Thank youlovegnet.
Doing some small breeding right now. Only keeping 20 fry from each batch and keeping 2 to 3 from each spawn.
For my spring breeding. To shorten my time in half I have to set up a lot of pair and do some inbreeding.
Still need to work on my pond. Going to be a pain in the butt...
Digging a hole that 4'8' by 4' deep.
Dug one 1/4 of the size the other day and it took me about a hour. Since we havent have rain in a long time....


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

><' oh man, sounds like a pain. D:
I hope you can get your hands on some nice bettas by then, if you haven't already.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

some giant genetic stuff from bettysplendens


> Giant (7')+Giant (7')= 100% Giant (7')?
> Giant (7')+Half Giant (3.5')= 50% Giant (7'), 50% Half Giant (3.5')?
> Regular size (2+')+Half Giant (3.5')= 50% Regular Size(2+'), 50% Half-Giant(3.5')strong>
> Half Giant {3.5')+Half Giant (3.5')=25% Giant(7'), 50% Half-Giant(3.5'), 25% Regular Size(2+')?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

I hope so.
Yes I not worrying about color at the moment. Just nice big fish with good spread and ray count. Color is easier to work with then fin and size.
Once I get what I want. I can alway toss them with a marble. On matter what I'll get a marble out of it. I'll choose a marble over a solid color any day. Will I lie I like mask Betta even more.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Ooohh! A marble Giant would be lovely!!


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

that would be a lovely fish... who do u plan on selling all these to tho? thats alot of big bettas!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks Tisia..
If giant pk can get 7 in.
Then the hm giant can even get bigger.
Is hm are bigger then pk since they have longer fin


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Idk yet.
But planning to sell them out of my shop.
At a very low price to balance out my coast of feeding and caring.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> Thanks Tisia..
> If giant pk can get 7 in.
> Then the hm giant can even get bigger.
> Is hm are bigger then pk since they have longer fin


Longer fin, yes. But I don't think that counts for body size


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

you have a shop??? kool!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah I know...
But Betta r measure from the the tip of the tail to the mouth.
Marble are amazing cause you want know how they look like.
Until there about nine month old. I like te guessing game.
Yeah it a small fabric shop.
Own by me n my older brother.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

thats cool? u sell fish at a fabric shop? lol


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Not at the moment...
Just fabric so far....
Once I have to many at the house I'll take a few to the shop n try to move them there....


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Fabric/betta store. LOL. 
I'd like to see that!! I'd def. go. haha. I love sewing!


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## GlassHaven (Oct 23, 2011)

MistersMom said:


> it could be read as curly-fat-as-"s"
> its all good


 
but then it sounds like more than one


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Will drop by if your ever in Fresno ca....


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

As far as I know bettas are not measured from nose to tail, it is only body length. If that were the case you'd call a regular 2" halfmoon betta 5". This is not the case.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

True...
But all the measurement ive seen so far is mouth to tail


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

cajunamy said:


> As far as I know bettas are not measured from nose to tail, it is only body length. If that were the case you'd call a regular 2" halfmoon betta 5". This is not the case.


I have to agree with Cajun.  It's like measuring a horse! You go from hoof to shoulder, not the head. And if you were to mesure length, you wouldn't go from head to tail- that's just silly.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

So if I get a good hm giant Betta. It will b a feet long from it's mouth to the tip of it's tail....


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

O__O that..doesn't sound right...at all. lol. 
I think Ginats get up to 5", 6" max. So...from head to tail I'd say 8-9"
I feel like a 1' betta would need a MASSIVE tank. D:


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Will u have to input the hm tail length....
It's longer then it body....
So a 6" body will have a 6"+ tail...
Which equal more then a feet long


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Righ, but you don't count the tail in length...just the body. You can add that he has a 6"+ tail, but it won't factor into the actual total length of the fish.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

There are halfmoon giants.

And yes, long fin is dominent to short fin.

So you'd get delta-hm half giants.

Then you can cross back the largest female to the father and homefully get a halfmoon/hmpk mixed spawn and not all HMPK. then take the giant hm, and breed to a new halfmoon(i'dbreed him twice to two different girls for two lines). then keep breeding as suck, sibling or parent child untill you dolidify the guant gene and hm gene


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Ok ok....
If I've ever develope a fish that size...
I'll keep him to myself in a 50 gallon show tank...
6" in fish with a 6" tail...
Don't matter what color he is....
Thank for the info Bambi...
On line breeding....
But I'll do one line of inbreeding only....
Then cross it out with with my other line....
Want lively fish at the end....
To much line breeding n inbreed will make the fish unhealthy....


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah, but it's safe up to 3 or so generation as long as you're not breeding deformed fish. I haven't got to try it personally yet but i've read what other people have done and when starting a line can help a lot alot. That's why i reccomended the two females so you can branch off and have two separate line that you can breed back to each other down the line.

If you don't want to inbreed, i have the link of a breeder of HM giants and you can just buy a pair to start with?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

One line of inbreeding is max for me....
Will pick a few 2 pair from the batch n cross them together...
Two male n two female can throw four different spawn...
Which I'll hand pick one male n female from each spawn n go from there....
N stare mixing it with other giant.....
But later down the road....
I have to breed cousin to cousin....
If I want the line to b strong....
I seen the price of hm giant....
Have to dig really deep just to get a pair....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Spend $200+pair and produce a giant hm...
Or spend about $60 for a pair and work my way to get a giant hm....
I think the second option seem more of a challenge and fun....
Never like to take the easy road....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Your goal is possible but definitely hard, expensive, and time consuming, + tons of breeding (unless you're lucky).

Remember:
1. giant x giant doesn't = 100% giant (fact). So giant x regular = 100% regular size BUT 50% geno. Breed that, you get half giants (unless you get really lucky). Breed that again, you may get full giants. ..... question is; which pair do you breed? Which are the giant genos or the half giants with full giant genes? If you want to play it safe, you'd have to wait until they're big; 6 - 7 months and breed the fastest growing and the largest.

In other words, you need as many fry survive as possible. Choose the fast growing (which might not have giant genes) and breed them. You have to breed as many pairs as possible. If you're lucky, it can be done in 4 - 6 generations.

2. Giants need tons of food to get them grow rapidly and reach the 12cm BO mark. Imagine feeding hundreds, or even thousands or fry 6 - 9 times daily..... it's very expensive and time consuming. I'd say invest on an expensive HM giant pair. Experiment with their fry and work your way for colors ..... you will still have the true giants to breed back to when you need them.

3. Not sure about this one, but I haven't seen HM giants with fins as long as regular HM. Anyway, if you power grow bettas, their fins will not develop as good as if you grow them regularly. You can power grow PK and get equally gorgeous fins but HM,s tend to have shorter fins. So if you power grow HM giants, their fins should only grow half of their body length (max). I'm not sure if fins could grow later on, but my previous HM's never did.

I hope I got the words right, because it was hard to make it simple and short.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Ahhh, so if the OP bred his regular to a giant they would all be heterozygous for the giant gene. That makes sense. So Giant is a recessive trait and regular size is dominant. 
So it will take until F3 to get pure giants. 
In F1 you'll get approx. 25% regular w/ no carrier gene, 50% regular w/ carrier gene, and 25% giant. 
In F2 you'll get 50% regular and 50% giants. 
And in F3 you'll have 100% giant. 
This will take tons of time and money, like Indjo said. >~< But if you're willing to put all of your effort, time, and money into it, I think the outcome would be well worth it!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

They way I power grow my fry is feed the Mircoworm for the first 2 1/2 week. Then from 2 1/2 week to 4 Grindal work for there on tubfix worm.
Can make a regular hit fully grown size in about 2 1/2 month-3
I know it's expensive to power grow fry....
Sticking with the base of culturing your own food next spring....
Mircoworm
Grindal worm( really easy to take care of)
White worm( haven't try it yet)
Tubfix worm(black worm) bit dirty but this stuff can boost the growth of a fry
Daphnia(good for fry)
Mosquito larvae(easy to find durning spring)
Guppy fry(keep the population down)
Blood worm(can alway find this thing on the bottom of my tube of water outside)


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Just got an answer Jim sonnier....
Only long fin giant get 7"....
It's measure for the tip of the mouth to the caudal fin...

Yeah have anyone try to raise fry in an aquaponic system


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

youlovegnats said:


> Ahhh, so if the OP bred his regular to a giant they would all be heterozygous for the giant gene. That makes sense. So Giant is a recessive trait and regular size is dominant.
> Yes giant gene is very recessive.
> 
> So it will take until F3 to get pure giants.
> ...





> Only long fin giant get 7"....
> It's measure for the tip of the mouth to the caudal fin...


Using "full" measurements IMO is deceiving. 7" would be about 17.5cm..... but 1/3 of that is the caudal while the body is only about 12cm/-5".

If you want to power grow, I suggest wormy foods. Non worms like daphnia, mosq larva, guppy fry, shrimp etc. are good for form growth - body, fins, and color.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Well, it's all theoretical. I just did a simple punnett square, so I'm sure none of it is 100% correct. It only gives you an idea of what you'll get.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes theoretical it is.... IDK, I've always found the punnet square confusing when it comes to bettas. lol


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Non worm food is for the adult fish....
Daphnia is to balance there diet....
Never try rasing shrimp yet...
Going with culture so I won't break the bank feed my fishing....

A few years back.
One pound of tubflix worm didn't even last me two week....
Those worm don't produce as fast...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

LOL.... when you're raising giant fry..... no food lasts. What I normally feed my regular collection (30 - 50) for a month is eaten in a week by the giants.... oh to save food, selection of fast growing fry is very important. Other wise they will suck you dry. lol

I don't raise shrimps. I buy regular "human" consumption shrimp, peel and mince them until they're very fine. Some people mix them with veggies for fiber but I don't bother.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

If I buy prawn Is for me to eat not my fish....
Love seafood n sushi....
I'll b needing at least 10 shoebox size Grindal worm n white worm culture....
400 gallon daphnia only pond....
20 five gallon barrel for mosquito larvae...
10 50 gallon size grow out tank slum system...
20 breeding tank....
Six month to get all the equipment....
Just to produce my own hm giant....


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

just another note on measurement - the reason you don't include fins is b/c you are measuring for bioload. fins have no bioload.


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## JAB91 (Aug 30, 2011)

I've read all the posts on this thread and you guys have great information. I would like to see some giant hm.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

i hope i produce some....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

breed these two fish like three weeks ago...
only have a small amount of fry.....
n lost my female....
going to have a small selection of fish to work with......
cause i can only work with the male......
female r out of the picture.....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

c how fast this little guy grow....
5 week old


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Giant + normal female = half giants
hmpk + hm = hm and delta/superdeltas, unless the HM is pk geno(had a short fin parent) in which case you'll get some PK aswell.

o.o so, generally, yes. You'll get larger longfin betta.

EDIT::
didn't see this was on page 7 already xD congrats on the spawn. wow,they are growing fast o.o


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

thats correct bambi....
but i don't know the genetic of my two fish....
breeding them to c what they can throw....
all i know is that both of them r giant....
3in plus...
with good spread and ray count


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## floridiansx (Sep 23, 2011)

hi, i just started breeding giants. i have a giant hm salamander male to regular steel blue hm female. have like 30 frys a week old. hopefully they'll be half-giant.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

whoa! ^^^^^^^^ this guy right above my post, he has a fish car!!! see his pic??????? WHOA!!! jk jk lol


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

MistersMom said:


> whoa! ^^^^^^^^ this guy right above my post, he has a fish car!!! see his pic??????? WHOA!!! jk jk lol


:rofl:


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

MistersMom- This is supposed to be a legit thread with questions and answers to and from the OP. 
If you don't have anything insightful or helpful to comment on, please refrain from "chatting" in these threads. 

Thanks.


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## tsoto80 (Nov 26, 2010)

MistersMom said:


> whoa! ^^^^^^^^ this guy right above my post, he has a fish car!!! see his pic??????? WHOA!!! jk jk lol


That does not make any sense....AT ALL.....:roll:


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

floridiansx said:


> hi, i just started breeding giants. i have a giant hm salamander male to regular steel blue hm female. have like 30 frys a week old. hopefully they'll be half-giant.


Could you please make a spawn log so we can all learn from it. I plan to do this soon in hopes of improving the giant's fins.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey froridiansx...
Keep us update with your breeding....
I want to know how your spawn turn out like


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## floridiansx (Sep 23, 2011)

i have the spawn log in my phone. will try to post when i have time to put it on my youtube channel.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

Oh no, Curly what happened with the female? She was a beauty.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

She never recover from the mating n past away


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about that.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

tsoto80 said:


> That does not make any sense....AT ALL.....:roll:


 
his profile picture was a car, then it changed lol.


Curly, im sorry about your female...


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## floridiansx (Sep 23, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=306825419327668&set=a.306825172661026.83450.100000006380689&type=3&theater
this the hm giant i got breeding.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

nice looking pair....
how big is your male with his tail????
with that breeding you will get a lot of cambodian and a few butterfly....


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Looks like a nice goal and challenging project...look forward to watching the progress....

Standard length (_SL_) measure from tip of snout to base of caudal peduncle-(_excludes the tail_)

Total length (_TL_) measure from tip of snout to tip of caudal fin or longest lobe of the caudal fin(_includes the tail_)

_***SL_- is generally used for long fin species and is considered more useful due to possible fin damage, irregular/abnormal fin growth

Good luck....


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