# Sadist's Guppies



## Sadist

29 September 2015

Brought home Sunset (female with orange caudal and dorsal with spots), Speckles (female, oops actually a male! with yellow and orange caudal and dorsal with spots, body has cobra markings), and Dapples (male yellow with spots)

30 September 2015,

Realized Speckles was also a male, traded Dapples in for Aurora (yellow dorsal and caudal with spots), who appears pregnant (darker gravid spot, bloated belly) already.

2 October 2015,

Aurora dies of unknown cause.

3 October 2015

Brought home Dawn (female with yellow caudal with spots), who appears to already be pregnant (darker gravid spot, bloated belly)

5 October 2015
Sunset is showing pregnancy. Her gravid spot has been darker for a week, and now she's getting bigger.

21 Oct 2015

Dawn shows appearance of labor -- hanging out by heater, arched back, shivering. Moved to breeding net which has java moss and a few floating plantlets.
Sunset shows signs of parasites (white, stringy poop); treat tank day 1 of Paraguard. Also showing advanced (boxy belly) stages of pregnancy. 

I can see heads and/or eyeballs of fry through the belly of both females. Male very interested in gravid spots of both females. I estimate that Sunset should have her litter next week, close to Halloween.

Note: Speckles is never still, and I just can't capture the beauty of his markings.


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## Sadist

22 October

False alarm on Dawn's labor. She is returned to the main part of the tank and reasserting her authority. I'm beginning to wonder if she wasn't just bloated when I got her and got pregnant afterwards.


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## Nismo83

Nice. A guppy keeper. I have two pairs. Should be adding one more pair soon


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## Sadist

Do they work well as pairs? Everything I've read said at least 2-3 females per male. I'd rather have the Sunset/Speckles pair than have Dawn there.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh fun! I will be following. I have 5 gups, but they're all male.


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## Nismo83

They will work. Just need some time. Something like a match making couple.


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## Sadist

Thanks!

I thought both females were in labor today, but it turns out that they ate some of the otos' seaweed and had problems pooping it out. The feeces looked just like the seaweed flakes that broke off from the sheet and float around.


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## Sadist

24 Oct 2015

Dawn is hiding and not eating. Placed her in breeding net.


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## LittleStar

Positive thoughts and prayers to Dawn! : )


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## Sadist

Thanks! She's not doing too great. After three days of brown poop, I stopped the paraguard treatment. Now, her poop is stringy and white, and she's still not eating. I've removed her to the hospital tank and started everyone on paraguard again. No babies that I can see.

Sunset and Speckles are doing great. They beg for food every time they see a person. Sunset looks like she'll be ready to give birth next week still.


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## Sadist

Dawn didn't make it. I found several white, skinny poops in the hospital tank. I buried her under a fiery colored bush, the same colors as her tank mates. I'm keeping up the paraguard treatments in the main tank and in the hospital tank, which is currently quarantining my water sprite. 

Poor Sunset is pooping out all the blood worms she stole from Speckles before he managed to get some. I'm happy her poop is brown, though it's quite large. 

At this point, I'm not sure if I should get another female or just wait for Sunset to give birth and use her daughters. Speckles is hanging around her a lot, but he doesn't seem to be courting her much. Mostly, he's just there next to her and occasionally tries to play. In return, he gets the, "I'm filled up with 20 babies and enough poop to fill the tank! Leave me alone!" She's due this week if she gives birth on time.


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## Sadist

27 October 2015

Sunset and Speckles were both showing signs of stress, so I brought home Daisy. She has a neon yellow/green caudal with spots and blue on the edges. Her dorsal and anal are blue. I'm interested in seeing how Speckles' orangey red and yellow interact with Daisy's coloring. The blue is really faint, but I'm sure it would be really bright on a male.

I saw a minute of courtship, and I think Speckles has already shared himself with Daisy. They're all hanging out together figuring out the dominance order.

Continueing paraguard treatment on the tanks.

Sunset could give birth any day now.


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## AlwaysAnimals

*Hi!*

I will be interested in keeping up with your guppies! I literally, less than twenty minutes ago, brought home a pair of females myself, to add to the one male and one female I already have. 

I have a pretty light blue lyretail male, a tiny female who is so little that I actually don't know her coloring yet, and two female snakeskins (one with yellow/orange and one with blue). LFS told me I have a pregnant one for sure, so I am going to get my breeder box set up for her!


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## Sadist

I love how friendly they are! I've got my breeder box set up and will use my hospital tank when they're too big for the breeder box and too small for the main tank. 

Also, check out your female snakeskins. My female snakeskin turned out to be a male. All of my females have plain bodies and colorful fins. 

Good luck with your fish!


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## Nismo83

sorry to hear the loss. I will always feel sad when my fish die. white poop.. there is one thing that I believe. once a month I feel my betta Brine shrimps or BBS to so call make them clear their system and once a week I do not feed them. You may want to try for your future fishes.


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## Sadist

It is a horrible loss. Dawn was really close to giving birth. Aurora was a gorgeous yellow girl.

I use frozen mysis shrimp and freshdelica daphnia after blood worm day. I did buy a different brand of blood worms this time, and they look and smell different than other kinds. I wonder if they're contaminated. I'm a little iffy on fasting the guppies since I have pregnant ones, and they eat some of the plants in the tank. 

Here's a picture of the new girl.

edit: I wanted to add that the guppies are being much more social today and like having a new one there.


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## Nismo83

Frozen blood worm? If yes then get only hikari brand. Brand from China are not clean


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## LittleStar

Hang in there and keep the faith - will keep your beloveds in my prayers : )


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## Sadist

Nismo83 said:


> Frozen blood worm? If yes then get only hikari brand. Brand from China are not clean


Thanks! I usually only get Omega One brand, but this time I got something different. I don't remember the brand, and the package is gone. I cut everything into 1-2 day use chunks when I bring it home and repackage. The Omega One blood worms are usually brown, but this brand has red ones with some sort of appendage at one end.




LittleStar said:


> Hang in there and keep the faith - will keep your beloveds in my prayers : )


Thanks so much!


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## Sadist

They're being nice and social together still. I hope it continues to last.


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## Schmoo

Yay guppies!  I have two males, myself (it was three, but I lost one). They're in a community tank with neons. They're such fun little fish!


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## Sadist

I love them, too!


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## themamaj

Guppies sound very interesting. I have never tried them. Is it fairly easy to tell the males from females? Are they more prone to illness than bettas? Best of luck with your breeding! Where do you buy your daphnia from? I have looked all over local and haven't run across it but finally got a lps to order for me.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Guppies sound very interesting. I have never tried them. Is it fairly easy to tell the males from females?


Yes. The females have a sail-like triangular anal fin that separated from her ventrals. The male's anal fin is right in between his ventrals and is shaped like a little straw (it fuses into a mating organ at around 4 weeks old).



> Are they more prone to illness than bettas?


I don't think so. They're likely to catch something nasty at the pet store since they're all crowded into tiny tanks there. Bettas are also in tiny cups at our stores, so it's a wash.



> Best of luck with your breeding! Where do you buy your daphnia from? I have looked all over local and haven't run across it but finally got a lps to order for me.


Thanks!

I bought some Tetra Freshdelica daphnia on Amazon. I didn't pay attention to the seller, but the hubby did make fun of me for importing food. It can be a bit messy -- it's essentially cut up daphnia pieces suspended in a vitamin gel. They take bites of it, and the little pieces fly all over. 

I haven't been able to find frozen daphnia locally, and shipping prices horrible buying it online. If I had more room, I would just start a culture of live ones.


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## themamaj

Thanks for info. Guppies sound very interesting. I look forward to reading more of your journal


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## Sadist

Sunset gave birth this morning! I counted 11 fry before I had to leave. She ate like a pig then and when I got back. I don't see as many fry, but I'm hoping they're in the java moss. I was going to let her rest in there with them and feed her a ton today.

I circled some of the fry. Some of the blurs are more fry, and some is just java moss. Hard to tell with the net and my mediocre camera skills.


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## AlwaysAnimals

Congrats! One of my females is in the middle of giving birth RIGHT NOW! lol :-D I don't know which one since they are both in the breeder box, but we'll see whose tummy is empty by the end of the day!

I'm heading over to my journal right now to post pics!


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## Sadist

Awesome! This is my last time to check today, but I'll be sure to check it out tomorrow.


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## Sadist

I still see lots of babies, but they've learned to hide in the java moss. I've fed the mommy a lot of food. She must have eaten 10 mysis shrimp over the day! She's still boxy, and her gravid spot is still dark. I'm not sure how much of the boxy shape is from the food or if she's holding more fry in. She isn't trying to charge the other fish through the breeding box like she was during the birth. So far, I haven't seen her eat any fry even when they swim near her.


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## Nismo83

may need to bring out the female.. congrats..


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## Kyle15

Sadist,

Try gettin pure Endler guppies or hybrid Endlers.
^ I have 28, 20 pure endler, 8 hybrid.

I have guppies.
orange 1s like yours but more orange. males have like you know that hair along the neck of a horse? They have it like that on their top fin and its orange.

I have TIGER ENDLERS

Now, these are the RAREST type of guppy, only 1 supplier in AFRICA .
I have 12 , TIGER ENDLERS are the 4th rarest fish in the EARTH


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## Sadist

I returned the female to the rest of the tank this morning. She's reassurted her authority over the other adults. 

I fed the babies some watery and defrosted community formula early this morning, and I fed them some egg yolk mix a few minutes ago. I saw one of them eat a bite of egg yolk speck, so at least one has learned to eat! I saw at least 8 this morning, but it's hard to count them in the java moss.

Unfortunately, right now I don't have room for an endler tank. In a few years, when one of the bettas has passed on, I'll consider turning one of their tanks into an endler one.


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## AlwaysAnimals

I'm curious about the egg yolk... how do you prepare it? Lots of good health benefits? I got Hikari First Bites yesterday, and I saw more than one fry eat it.


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## Sadist

I took a small bit of yolk from a boiled egg, then mashed it together with some tank water until smooth. I dose by dipping a tooth pick into the mixture, then into the tank. I can see a bunch of tiny specks of food from dosing this way.


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## Sadist

Yesterday, I counted 9 babies. Today, 10! I counted 11 in the middle of her birth, so I'm sure there are more hiding or deceased in the java moss. I'm going to carefully go through it today with a turkey baster and try to get any feces and/or corpses. One of the babies I saw is a bit runty. Maybe it hasn't been eating. If it stays really runty or gets skinny, I'll go ahead and cull it.


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## Sadist

Pictures! Not as great as some, but here they are!


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## AlwaysAnimals

I think the pics are great, the fry look nice against the dark green. Makes their color show a little!


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## Sadist

Thanks! I can't get the lovely side view since I have a net. I can't seem to get the camera to focus through the net to what's in side the way my eyes can.


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## ShadeSlayer

Subbing. I love your guppies! Very pretty!


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## Sadist

Thanks! I love the shorter tail types, especially in my oto tank with the higher water flow.


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## ShadeSlayer

They look amazing! Did you get them form a LFS or just a petco/petsmart?


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## Sadist

Petco and mart. I went to look at air pumps, and they have a bunch that look like my male today (who was in the female tank when I first got him).


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## ShadeSlayer

Ha, my males somehow made it into the neon tetra tank befor I got them...weird. How many do you have?


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## Sadist

I have 2 females, 1 male, and the fry (about 7ish left). There were some emaciated fry that I culled before they starved to death in the middle of the java moss tangle. The ones left are all super healthy and curious, and some have learned that an open lid means food!

Here's one of the big fry eating some defrosted community formula. I get nice close-ups with the flash, but I can only get enough picture outside of the glare area for one or two fry! Without the flash, everything's all blurry. Oh well.

I keep an eye on the food particles. Every time I go to turkey baste one up, a fry sees it and cleans it from the moss.


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## themamaj

Those fry are precious! What coloration were the parents? At what age do guppies start showing their colors?


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## Sadist

The mom has orange-toned fins with spots, the daddy is a snakeskin with orange and yellow fins (with more spots!). Sunset and Speckles should have pictures on the first page of the journal.

This is my first litter, but I've read that they start showing genders around 4 weeks and colors around 6 weeks. 

They're a lot bigger now than day one.


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## Sadist

I observed the two biggest fry nipping at each other. Dominance/pecking order games? Neither one was backing off like normal pecking order in the adults.


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## Sadist

On the 7th, I switched to Omega One Freshwater Community Formula frozen food. It's what the parents eat. They seem to be liking it quite a bit, and I let bigger particles get in there. I thought about getting beefheart, but I'm happy with their current growth patterns. Maybe at a week old, they'll be big enough to move to the grow out tank. 

Sunset is still looking and acting close to due date. She may just be sick and bloated -- she eats more than her fair share of the food.

I really love Daisy's colors, and I hope she passes them to some of her fry in the future. Her fins are speckled with neon yellow fading to neon blue on the edges with a neon blue dorsal and anal. I'm not sure how those colors will mix with the orange-red colors of Speckles and Sunset.

Both females have a stripe of color from their caudal to their dorsal along their backs (but not sides).


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## themamaj

They are really beautiful. It will be interesting to see which traits show up in fry. Sounds like they are developing well. How large is you tank? What is a recommended number of guppies if you start a tank?


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## Sadist

My tank is 10 gallons, the minimum for guppies. I started with 2 females and a male, but they do better with 6+. I wanted to leave room to keep some of the fry for myself. I've been told that you can do all males and just get 6 to start with. It may have been better if I had done that. I really wanted to raise some fry, and there's no way I'm doing that with bettas!

Well bad news: Sunset is a bit off today. She's been isolating herself, hiding, and not eating. I've put her in isolation in case she's sick or birthing the rest of her fry. Wish her luck!


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## themamaj

Best of luck to Sunset. I have been doing a lot of reading on guppies. The fact that they have live births is very fascinating. I think that would be a neat experience to raise a fry. It does seem a little less overwhelming than a betta. What do you think are the prettiest type/coloration of guppies?


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## Nismo83

Sadist said:


> My tank is 10 gallons, the minimum for guppies. I started with 2 females and a male, but they do better with 6+. I wanted to leave room to keep some of the fry for myself. I've been told that you can do all males and just get 6 to start with. It may have been better if I had done that. I really wanted to raise some fry, and there's no way I'm doing that with bettas!
> 
> Well bad news: Sunset is a bit off today. She's been isolating herself, hiding, and not eating. I've put her in isolation in case she's sick or birthing the rest of her fry. Wish her luck!


probably going to give birth soon. I just gotten myself another pair of guppy yesterday. Blue grass


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## themamaj

Nismo83 said:


> probably going to give birth soon. I just gotten myself another pair of guppy yesterday. Blue grass


Congratulations! I bet the blue grass are beautiful. I am seriously considering trying guppies. You all have shown me how fun they can be. Best of luck with fry on way.


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## Nismo83

themamaj said:


> Congratulations! I bet the blue grass are beautiful. I am seriously considering trying guppies. You all have shown me how fun they can be. Best of luck with fry on way.


Sadist's guppy going to give birth. Not mine. Lol. Mine always got eaten up.


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## Sadist

Sunset passed away during the night. Her belly never got smaller after she had her first set of fry. We had parasite problems with one of the other deceased fish, so I wonder if she caught them even with the paraguard going. I'd rather not run paraguard on the tank all the time!

Daisy and Speckles seem fine today, and the fry are nice and alert and eating, too.


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## Nismo83

Sadist said:


> Sunset passed away during the night. Her belly never got smaller after she had her first set of fry. We had parasite problems with one of the other deceased fish, so I wonder if she caught them even with the paraguard going. I'd rather not run paraguard on the tank all the time!
> 
> Daisy and Speckles seem fine today, and the fry are nice and alert and eating, too.


Sorry on the loss.


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## LittleStar

Oh so sorry to hear about Sunset! My prayers for healing and may your great friend swim in peace. Thank you for sharing your guppy journey with us, I've learned a lot by reading your thoughtful thread. Many blessings for future success!


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## Sadist

Thanks, everyone!


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## Sadist

The babies today. They're getting quite large!


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## themamaj

Very good growth. Great job


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## Sadist

I didn't have a new batch of community formula ready to go, so everyone got mysis shrimp. It was very tedious picking through the shrimp to find pieces small enough for the babies. They got lots of eyeballs and 1/4 mysis shrimp heads in their first feeding. Back to community formula, now!

Daisy still seems okay, but Speckles is back to glass surfing all day. Three more weeks, and I'll be able to add his and Sunset's daughters to the tank to fill it out. That's only if I manage to keep Daisy alive. If she dies, I'm just going to have an all male tank and enjoy the boys.


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## themamaj

Hope Daisy hangs in there. Well wishes to her! Does the mysis shrimp help gi system like daphnia? Is community formula something you mix up?


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## Nismo83

Sadist said:


> I didn't have a new batch of community formula ready to go, so everyone got mysis shrimp. It was very tedious picking through the shrimp to find pieces small enough for the babies. They got lots of eyeballs and 1/4 mysis shrimp heads in their first feeding. Back to community formula, now!
> 
> Daisy still seems okay, but Speckles is back to glass surfing all day. Three more weeks, and I'll be able to add his and Sunset's daughters to the tank to fill it out. That's only if I manage to keep Daisy alive. If she dies, I'm just going to have an all male tank and enjoy the boys.


did you get the hikari frozen Mysis shrimps?


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Hope Daisy hangs in there. Well wishes to her! Does the mysis shrimp help gi system like daphnia? Is community formula something you mix up?


I was led to believe anything with a shell could help. Community formula is something Omega One mixes up for me and freezes. I really like the ingredients! It's messy, though, like ground meat baby food. It works really well for small fish because it disperses into tiny bits so easily.



Nismo83 said:


> did you get the hikari frozen Mysis shrimps?


I think it was Omega One frozen Mysis shrimp. 

The one off brand thing that I have is Sally's frozen blood worms, and they look like a different kind of insect larva than other brands of frozen blood worms. Either that, or they're flash frozen earlier. Omega One blood worms are brown, but Sally's are red, segmented, and have some sort of appendages at one end. So far, they haven't seemed to hurt the fish except the pregnant guppy who ate more than her share and bloated really bad.


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## themamaj

How is Daisy today?


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## Sadist

Okay, funny story. Last night, after lights out, I checked on the guppy tank on the way to bed. Speckles and Daisy had been hanging out in the oto food corner watching the otos eat their strip of seaweed for most of the evening. When I checked on them, they were completely bloated up last night. Daisy looked like she was ready to give birth, and Speckles looked like a betta working on dropsy. I guess they totally pigged out on the seaweed, and I almost panicked wondering how I was going to feed the otos (only put the seaweed in at night?). They had pecked at floating pieces in the past and spit them out.

This morning, they look normal. I don't know if the dark distorted their bellies or if the seaweed all passed in the night.

Daisy and Speckles are both good. I've made it a point to make sure Speckles sees the food before I put it in the tank (he usually spends the feeding session wiggling around at me like a betta while the girls rush around pigging out).

The fry are doing really well. I've fed them Community Formula twice and threw in a few mysis shrimp pieces and eyeballs. Not all of the fry are big enough for the mysis pieces, so I just put in 3-4 of those. They've learned that the toothpick means food, and they swarm over to it and keep me from dispersing the food correctly  Some of the bolder ones came and pecked food right from it like the bettas do.


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## themamaj

Lol our fish are smarter than we think sneaking around for food. Or maybe not so smart when pig out at the seaweed megabar  I actually saw some community formula and mysis shrimp in Petco yesterday. Good to know where to find it. Funny I also feed frozen food with toothpicks. However, I have a couple that like to attach the toothpick and have "caught" a few on the end. I always try to put food in water and move toothpick out of way fast so none get hurt. They are so excited for frozen food though. Glad your fry is doing so well.


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## Sadist

I used to do that with the fry, but now they swam in the way! Mrs. Fish is so violent, I have to make sure the toothpick doesn't enter the water. She will attack it, and I'm afraid she'll give herself splinters.


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## AlwaysAnimals

Me three, when it comes to the toothpick! It's how I fed Flash when he was little (got him as a Petco baby). Fed him BBS and bloodworms that way


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## Sadist

The two adult guppies are still doing well.

I fed the babies some tiny pieces of bloodworms. It was really funny watching them dart around with bloodworms hanging out of their mouth. "Mine!" I'm debating with myself if I should move them to the 2.5 gallon grow-out tank now or wait a few more days.


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## themamaj

I am amazed how fast they are growing. Hold old are they now? I bet very cute wrestling over bloodworms


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## Sadist

They are 8 days old. I do feed them small amounts often. I think I'll hold off feeding them again until around lights out after all those blood worms.

I think I'll hold off moving the fry for just a few more days since it's so easy for them to see me bringing food from the net.


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## themamaj

At what age do they mature? Do you have a gravel based tank or soil? It looks planted from what pictures seen. Interested to see a full tank pic


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## themamaj

and so are you keeping boys or girls from fry????


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## Sadist

Right now, they're in a breeder's net in my 10 gallon. The tank has gravel and live plants, but the breeding net has just plants.

Right now, I'm planning on keeping the females to give Speckles a little harem. If Daisy dies like all the other females, than I will just keep the males.

From what I've read, you can tell the genders around 4 weeks old and colors by 6. With the netting in the way, I can't really see their anal fins at all except as blurs. This is my first litter, so I can only recite what I've read online.

The grow out tank is bare-bottom with a few plants, mostly floating right now. It's also my window tank to grow extra food for the otos, so it looks a little dirty.

I'll have to post pictures tomorrow; time to get my human pet from school!


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## Nismo83

Glad to see the offspring growing well. Three time pregnant on my guppy but not able to see a single fry. Guess the line was too inbreed and the female are eating them. 

Frozen bloodworm should be red in colour. I am using hikari brand only due to negative feedback of those made from China


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## Sadist

Thanks, Nismos!

MammaJ, I forgot to add that as soon as you can tell the genders apart, you're supposed to separate them. Apparently, they can breed by then.

Here's the guppy tank today! And the grow out. Yes, I brought home a baby betta and added him in there. I hate that I supported the pet store selling them that young, but I just couldn't resist his energy! I hope he gets along with the guppy fry when they're moved!


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## Nismo83

Is that a planted tank? I am never good with planted tank. Couldn't scape what I really want. Think I am not artistic enough


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish flared and finally showed me her lady beard. Too cute! Mr. Fish hardly ever uses his beard, but his is cellophane and really gorgeous.

I need to get a picture of the guppy fry eating. They swarm over to the toothpick and eat off of it until I can move it enough to scrape the food off with a plant. They crowd around before I can do anything to get the food off!


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## Sadist

Nismo83 said:


> Is that a planted tank? I am never good with planted tank. Couldn't scape what I really want. Think I am not artistic enough


Yes, but you can see I don't really plan out where everything goes. I mostly put plants where they fit and fertilize them. I had to take a bunch of plants out because the guppies were eating them. Those plants are now floating in random other tanks.

Here's a picture of the babies swarming the toothpick. I see only the skinnier ones not pecking at it in the picture. You can also see Daisy next to the breeder box and Speckle's head in the top corner next to her.

The fry also have different eye colors. Some of them have dark eyes, and others don't.


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## Nismo83

Nice


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## AccaliaJay

So I have a 10 gallon that I divided with mesh that I had on hand. Its poorly made but it will do. The guppy fry picture is of my two suspected 1 month and 9 day old females. I have 82 less than a month old fry and possibly 3 males. Which will be added to the other side of the 10 gallon tomorrow if the females stay on their side over night. I find telling the genders of guppy fry extremely difficult x.x like I have a feeling one of the males is actually a female but I don't want to risk it being a male and putting it with the two that I am 90% sure are females.


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## Sadist

Good luck! I have 0 experience dividing tanks. I have read that the divider should go all the way to the tank floor and walls because the enthusiasm of some fish will have them dig through the substrate to get to the other side.

I moved my fry over to their grow out today. I was surprised that there are actually 11 fry, not 9 like I thought.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol the divider is touching the bottom. And the rocks are there to hopefully prevent them from trying to go under. And guppy fry tend to make you think theirs less then their really is. Two days ago my guppy Zora gave birth to 60 fry and I only thought there was 40 at most 50. Then I counted them as I added them to my guppy fry tank and yeah 60 was the official count. Would have been more but my betta and the other female guppy ate a few. My mom was not happy when she witnessed the fry getting eaten.


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## Sadist

Wow, well there seems to be plenty extra!

Speckles doesn't seem to be doing to well today. I'm not sure if he finally noticed Sunset is gone or if he sees the babies are gone. He came up to eat, but he's been laying in the gravel the rest of the time (moving from place to place in the gravel). 

Daisy seems to still be okay. She's huge and squared off already, though I don't expect her to give birth for another week or two.

I hope they can keep it together for a few more weeks until the babies are mature enough to hang out with them!

I took a bunch of pictures with the last of the camera's battery. I have to wait for it to recharge to shift through them all and see if any are worth saving.


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## AccaliaJay

Well if those three had been together for a while then its most likely the loss of Sunset. My Hadifer really started acting weird when my Apollo died. And then it got even worse after my only female Ruby died and he was left alone. He perked up after I got four more guppies though. Maybe you could get 1 or 2 more friends for him or just wait and see if he starts feeling better?

I honestly don't know how old the guppy fry should be to be added with adults.


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## Kyle15

Sadist, if you could get whatsapp/ already have it and you can PM me ur number, and I could show you my whole setup, although. I could post pics. I just dont know how. Can you tell me how? Im on iOS which should be the same


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## themamaj

Wow your tanks are great! I can't believe those fry. Absolutely precious!! How interesting their eye colors are different. I can't wait to see what traits come out in them. Do the parents get depressed when you move the fry? How long will they stay in the grow out tank?


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## themamaj

One more question, I read that guppy gestation is around 28-30 days? How can you judge how far along the female is other than maybe size and behavior?


----------



## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> Well if those three had been together for a while then its most likely the loss of Sunset. My Hadifer really started acting weird when my Apollo died. And then it got even worse after my only female Ruby died and he was left alone. He perked up after I got four more guppies though. Maybe you could get 1 or 2 more friends for him or just wait and see if he starts feeling better?
> 
> I honestly don't know how old the guppy fry should be to be added with adults.


Sunset passed several days ago, and I wasn't expecting him to start pining now. He's acting a little more normal, now. I didn't want to buy more adults since the quarantine tank has become the fry grow out tank.

I was planning on adding the fry when I separate the males and females. I just hope Speckles doesn't decide to fertilize them right away!



Kyle15 said:


> Sadist, if you could get whatsapp/ already have it and you can PM me ur number, and I could show you my whole setup, although. I could post pics. I just dont know how. Can you tell me how? Im on iOS which should be the same


If you go to the "post reply" button instead of doing a quick post, there's a "manage attachments" button. You can attach pictures from there. You can also upload pictures to a public picture place and put the image tags around it.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Wow your tanks are great! I can't believe those fry. Absolutely precious!! How interesting their eye colors are different. I can't wait to see what traits come out in them. Do the parents get depressed when you move the fry? How long will they stay in the grow out tank?


Thanks! When I separate the genders, I plan on putting the female fry into the main tank.



themamaj said:


> One more question, I read that guppy gestation is around 28-30 days? How can you judge how far along the female is other than maybe size and behavior?


It was really hard for me to judge. Mine got huge and boxy 2 weeks before they gave birth. They also get super nippy and have illness symptoms (hiding, not wanting food, etc, though mine was instead insatiably hungry when she gave birth).

It's important to not have the female in the breeder box too long as being separated from the others can cause her a lot of stress and cause her to give birth early or die of stress.

Serious breeders actually keep the males and females separated all the time except for mating. Once the females are pregnant, they all go together into a birthing tank, and the male goes back to the male tank. Once they've given birth, the females go back to the female tank or maybe to another birth tank, and the fry have their own tank. I've read that a female can get pregnant up to 7 times from one fertilization.


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## themamaj

So how do you tell they are about ready to give birth?


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## Sadist

I could tell when Sunset was super nippy. She was continuing to nip and charge at everyone even when they were showing submission or retreating. I put her in the box, and the next morning there were babies. At first, I thought there was some sort of parasite in the tank until I realized it was fry!


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## Schmoo

Guppy fry!  So cuuute~


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## AccaliaJay

I've been keeping track of my guppy births easier to know who is the mother and when its time to start watching for gender telling. I always keep the females together. 

October 3rd- 5 fry- Diamond
October 18th- 10 fry- Zora
October 26th- 12 fry- Diamond
November 10th- 60 fry- Zora

Sometimes its hard to tell if the females are close. Zora was really fat the last birth. I guess you could say it all depends on the guppy and that sometimes you won't know until you look over and see something tiny swimming in the tank lol. I freaked out the first time I seen fry in my tank.


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## Sadist

Sunset was the most submissive when I first got her. You know when the submissive fish is going to give birth when she turns into an aggressive betta!


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## themamaj

Is it a problem if they give birth in tank? Is it hard to catch them and move them?


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## AccaliaJay

Well I move my females because my males chase the females as they give birth and also the plants make it hard to net out the fry. I have no clue why others do it. Could be different reasons.


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## Sadist

I put the female in the net to give birth because:

1) I think it would be a huge pain trying to catch 60 darting fry with all my plants;

2) the other fish in the tank may harass her as she gives birth and also eat the babies;

3) Mama fish needs a little rest after giving birth before Daddy fish gets her pregnant again. I left mine in with the fry for a day and fed her lots of food to help her recover.

4) I want to control which fry end up staying in the tank when they grow up. That means having them grow up in the net and a different tank, then moving the ones I want into the main tank.

Some people may let the females hide and give birth naturally in the tank, but my tank is too small for that. I think I'm going to have to upgrade it to a 20 or 30 gallon in a few months if I want to have more than 6 guppies. IN fact, I need to start working the hubby over to let me start getting that set up right now so it'll be ready  Otherwise, the future fry will all just be food for the bettas.

While we're on that subject, I want to note that it seems more human to kill the fry before feeding them to other fish. While Mrs. Fish was able to eat the runty ones in 1 bite, it took her 30 minutes to stalk and catch it. Perhaps she would have been quicker if she wasn't used to food that stays in place.


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## Nismo83

You may consider try getting higher quality guppy as well


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## Sadist

Maybe. I don't really like most of the ones I see on aquabid -- I like the short-fin with spots and snakeskin ones.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84

If you like smaller short finned guppies, you should check out Dwarf Black Panda guppies. I bought 3 pairs off aquabid about 2 weeks ago and they have already started breeding in the QT tank I have them in. The males are about the size of nano Raspboras or Ember Tetras and the females are normal sized. They are extremely pretty and unique.

This is a picture of the sellers breeding male that I got babies from:


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## Sadist

The fry are still doing great, but Speckles didn't make it. Daisy seems to be acting normal, too. The otos seem to be unaffected by whatever's harming the guppies. I'm going to continue to raise the fry and hope for the best with them.


----------



## Sadist

I have a theory (besides them just being weakened by the stay at the pet store). I see the otos cleaning algae off the pothos roots from time to time. Today, I see nibble marks on them. I'm not sure how strong the oto rasping is, but pothos are poisonous to cats, and usually fish don't eat them. Perhaps the guppies decided to try some out after watching the otos.

Daisy is doing fine still. She zooms over and begs for food every time I enter the room, just like a betta.


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## themamaj

So sorry to hear about Speckles! I'm glad Daisy still doing well. How are your fry doing in grow out tank?


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## Sadist

The fry seem like they grow a mm every day! About 16 more days until I can start separating genders. I can't wait!

My baby betta, Sky is doing well, too. He's taken over Mr. Fish's tank. Mrs. Fish is awesome, too, and the otos in with Daisy are always active and fat when I see them.


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## AccaliaJay

Sorry about speckles. I might lose 1 guppy fry it seems to be having trouble swimming. Hopefully it's not a disease.


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## Sadist

I've been feeding mine daphnia freshdelica over the weekend since with my family here, I couldn't bleach out their food containers and defrost some fresh food. They seemed to like the freshdelica stuff, though most of my adult fish are so-so on it. My 5 year old got to feed them yesterday as they swarmed the toothpick.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol bet they loved that.


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## Nismo83

How I wish my guppy can give birth successfully.


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## Sadist

I finally had one do that, and she died a few days later. I guess that's what you get with pet store fish for me.

More blurry picture of fry!


----------



## Sadist

Here's an entire picture of the grow out tank. The fry survived their first water change in it this morning.

Also, of note, the back-up heater from last year's winter in the 10 gallon tank had some paint missing, so I removed it. A sticker peeled off the main heater, too. I'll assume those two things may have influenced the deaths of some of the adult guppies, though I'm not sure why the otos are unaffected.

I replaced the hob filter in the 10 gallon with a more powerful HoB filter and put the smaller pothos clippings in the back of it. The larger vines were moved to a betta tank.

Daisy is still doing well and not acting stressed at all. I hope she survives to give birth so I can see how her coloring mixes with Speckles'.

Don't mind the mess at the bottom. It's brown algae, which I'm growing for the otos. I did vacuum the bottom, but the algae grows pretty quickly!


----------



## AccaliaJay

I wish I could give my guppy breeding luck to other people.


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## Sadist

I don't have a lot of room, so I don't mind the smaller spawns. I had a dream that I got a nice 30 gallon tank so my otos and guppies would have more room. Sigh.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I'm hoping Diamond doesn't have more than 20 her next birthing. That would make over 100 fry. She should be giving birth next week I think. Maybe the week after that


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I wish I could give my guppy breeding luck to other people.


Yeah, I need osme. my last batch of guppies didn’t last more than a month. Still have one remaining male, though. Any tips on getting him to eat better? He only eats brine shrimp, not the best thing for him. I think it might be due to not having companions, though.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Well if those three had been together for a while then its most likely the loss of Sunset. My Hadifer really started acting weird when my Apollo died. And then it got even worse after my only female Ruby died and he was left alone. He perked up after I got four more guppies though. Maybe you could get 1 or 2 more friends for him or just wait and see if he starts feeling better?
> 
> I honestly don't know how old the guppy fry should be to be added with adults.


Did he stop eating? My only boy is getting kinda depressed being all alone.


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## AccaliaJay

His eating decreased but he did eat a few nibbles. But he spent most of his time at the bottom of the tank not really doing much.


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## Sadist

On Speckles' last two days, he stopped eating and just lounged around. He came out for feeding time but wasn't interested in the food on the very last evening. I found his body the next morning.

So far, Daisy is still eating.

At the store, I saw a juvenile guppy in the tank. It was showing colors, so I know they can be with adults by then. There was a female in the tank, too, so I expect they had an accidental breeding and the one juvie was the lone survivor.


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## AccaliaJay

When their big enough to not be considered food is when they can go together that's all I know


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## SplashyBetta

You can move them to the main tank as soon as they can no longer fit in the mouth of the biggest fish ;-)


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## Sadist

Thanks for the info! I'm only keeping one gender, and it's easier to catch them in the grow out tank than the main tank. I'll just wait until I can tell genders before I move them over.


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## Nismo83

I think the grow up tank is pretty big enough for them to grow.. just need to make sure water quality remains good. I am getting lazy to clean my guppy tank.. I need to clear it all out hahaha as in the water..


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## AccaliaJay

I getting lazy to but I know it needs to be done so I only slack a few days before doing it.


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## Sadist

I can't get it in a picture, but some of the fry are getting dark areas at the base of their caudals. I can't tell if it's in the fin or the tail area because they dart around a lot. They also seem to be scared of the anti red eye light, so almost all of the pictures are just the plants they were swimming in.

Daisy was having trouble with all the current in her tank, so I fixed the little filter back the way it was (spray bar pointed up instead of to the side). She seems to be doing fine, now. She's still friendly with me and eating, so I have high hopes for her. She still has 7-10 days or so before she should give birth. I've been really careful to just give her a tiny bit of food since it's just her in there (with the otos, who keep the plants shiny and green).


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## Sadist

The fry are still doing great today. I've removed one of the feedings as they seem to be constipated (or at least always have poop hanging out). 

Daisy still seems okay. She doesn't seem quite as active, but she's watching Mrs. Fish or me from the feeding corner a lot. 

Baby Sky (a betta) is also doing really well. He's darkening up so much that I wonder if he's actually going to be blue instead of turquoise. He's still super personable and always begging for food, even when his little baby belly is full. I have to watch myself really carefully; I've wanted to breed bettas for almost a year, but I don't have the space for it and probably never will.


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## AccaliaJay

I think breeding bettas is to much work since they require a lot of tanks and such. That's why I decided to do guppies. Easier. I need to figure out how I'm going to do a large water change in my fry tanks my mom has a gravel vacuum but that might suck them up. Might cup them and then do it


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## themamaj

Can you post a picture of Sky?


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## Sadist

Sky is my avatar picture. It's blurry, but that's my best picture of him! It's rainy, and he has a window tank, so pictures won't really turn out well if I try to get his darker color on the camera. It could also be why he looks more blue today.

I really wish I could get a picture of one of the fry's color coming in. I thought they would have no color until 6 weeks, but some have that little bit of dark color on their caudal base! A lot of them appear to have gravid spots, but I'm going to brush that off as seeing their poop until I get that under control.


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## AccaliaJay

Your probably won't have an absolute gender until like a month and a half. And your fry might have dark colors coming in. After I do the water change I'll try getting a picture of my littler ones. Some were born looking dark and some are like really light and the only way u see them in the tank is their eyes or until they move


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## AccaliaJay

Best pic I can get for the night


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## Sadist

Aww, look at all the cuties! My fry appear to all be light colored, but some have dark eyes and some light. And some now have that darker color on their tails.


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## AccaliaJay

Yours are how old?


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## Sadist

They are 15 days old.


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## AccaliaJay

Seems a little early but fry differ the times apparently. I heard some change color a few days old some can take up to three months. Depends on their genes I guess. And I notice some of my fry have died. I don't think they were developed all the way.


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## AccaliaJay

I found a fry who looks like it's tail is red lol sorry about the bubbles. I did a insane large water change which is like almost a fully tank clean in a few hours or by tomarrow the tank should clear up


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## Sadist

Wow, red already! That's amazing. I read they aren't supposed to have color come in until they were 6 weeks old, but some start showing genders at 4 weeks old.


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## AccaliaJay

It might change color for all I know but won't know till it's older. Still have a week or two for the next batch of fry to be seperated by genders. I think you have to have really good eyesight to be able to sex genders at 4 weeks lol I just now confirmed my first five genders and their almost 6 weeks. And as for color genetics is what people say chooses the time lol


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## Sadist

I'm a little concerned about my stocking, now. I found an oto that was missing (and presumed dead) for a long time. With 7 otos, I'll be considered way overstocked with 6 guppies in there. I'm going to either have to convince the hubby that we need a 20 (or 30!) gallon tank for the guppies and otos or rehome all of the survivors. I'd like to get a larger tank for the otos, anyways, but it's hard to justify it to the hubby who expected us to only have 1 tank with 1 fish in it as a pet.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I'm way overstocked to


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## Nismo83

So nice to see growth


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## Sadist

I tried mysis shrimp heads today. They were really fighting over breakfast! The only piece I found on the floor was a whole mysis shrimp that I got in by accident. I moved it to a tank that has a clean up crew.

My money transfer finally worked, so now I can finally buy some live food and the floating plants I want! I've moved across the country, got a new bank, and got married since I used paypal, so it was a bit of work.


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## themamaj

Sky is a cutie. So exciting colors coming in on fry. It will be neat to see how many boys vs girls you get.


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## SheCaMo

Oh i absolutely love Guppies.

I have a few Guppy Mutts, that turned out pretty neat looking.
I'm seriously hoping for more fry 

I cant wait to see how your fry turns out!


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## themamaj

Those fry are so cute! I cant believe one is red so little. You all are doing a great job. I may have asked this, but what age is maturity


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## Sadist

The red fry is someone else's.

This is my first batch of fry, but I've read that you can start telling genders at 4 weeks and colors at 6. Someone else on the forum said he or she can barely start telling genders at 6 weeks.


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## Nismo83

is the Mysis shrimps fresh type or frozen type? =)


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## AccaliaJay

I got a good idea of what I had at 4 weeks I thought I had 3 males and 2 females but it wasn't until 5-6 weeks when I was able to see that I had 2 males and 3 females in my oldest batch. Heres the video I used if you need to know how to tell. They say if your not sure whether its male or female. Put it with the males. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG886Cp9KCs&list=PLhxMZhQrvLZ8GI4GYZv6dtIk94s_FwkeS&index=1

And my males are little over a month and a half old and they still haven't got their gonopodium thing I think thats what its called I forgot XD So maybe 2-3 months they mature I think Lol.

And Sadist sounds like your fry enjoyed the shrimp. Hope their doing good then. Hows Daisy? Any luck convincing your husband to get a bigger tank? lol 

And that red fry belongs to me. I can't locate it right now lol to many fry in my tank. Although the count has been dropping cause my female had to many in one birth and alot of them weren't developed all the way


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## Sadist

Oh man, and here I thought I would be looking at the fins!

More pictures of Sunset's fry!

Bonus pictures, Mrs. Fish and baby Sky.

Daisy is still doing well, eating, swimming, hanging out with the otos.


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## themamaj

Wow what great pictures!! Aww Sky has the cutest little face. I am amazed every time I see the fry. Looking more and more like little adults. You are doing a great job with them.


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## AccaliaJay

Yours are looking good Sadist! And that betta looks really good to. I wish I had more room then I would get another betta. But I'm way to over stocked as of now. Even though I've been losing alot of fry lately. And I'm glad I could help give you info. I think I found a male in my next batch but they look smaller than the other ones were when I separated them. I'm gonna see if hes to small and can get past the divider in the 10 gallon if he does I'm going to wait another two weeks which means they'll be 6 weeks old.


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## Sadist

Thanks for the compliments and help! And good luck with your fry. I culled all my runty ones when they were a few days old and worked as betta food. If you do go that route, I recommend killing them first, as Mrs. Fish probably stressed out the first cull quite a bit before she caught it. I shocked mine with cold water; they're so little that it seemed to kill them instantly.


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## AccaliaJay

My guppies actually eat them pretty fast whenever I put them in the tank if they look almost dead.


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## Sadist

My runty ones were still semi healthy and fully formed, so the one I put in there was able to play hide and seek for almost an hour before she caught it in the open. I felt so bad that I went ahead and shocked the other 3. I think Mrs. Fish wasn't expecting a moving dinner or she would have caught the first one right away.

I won an auction on some live freshwater shrimp the size of brine shrimp. If I can keep the culture alive long enough to move to the fry grow out tank, there will be baby ones for the fry to eat for a while. I can feed some of the adults to the adult fish, too. If I get enough of them, I can move some adults to the jungley tanks to help as a clean up crew. I've been wanting to try this for a long time, but it took me forever to get my paypal up and running.

I did get some ghost shrimp for Sky's tank and nautilly skipped quarantine. 4/5 of them seemed to have made the transfer. I'm not sure if the 5th one is molting or got eaten. I see 1 female and 3 males from time to time. There's a lot of plant melting in there from all the cloudy days not letting the high light plants get any light. It also lets me feed Sky some of the more messy food that leaves tiny particles in the sand (like my freshwater community frozen formula, it's essentially fish ground up like human baby food). It's also jungley in many areas, which gives the shrimp plenty of micro organisms to scavange, and I put some food in there on purpose from time to time.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah these ones the tails aren't fully forms I'm trying to keep them alive as long as I can but whenever I see one having trouble swimming and sinking to the bottom I scoop it out and put it in my adult tank without acclimation. The tanks are like 3 degrees different. And the adults quickly find it and eat it.

I love ghost shrimp. I have 3. Does your tank have a lid? I hear they sometimes get out. But they also do tend to be invisible. Its rare that I see all three within 10 minutes of looking lol. I think I have 2 females and 1 male. Females are bigger than males right? I've had mine since sept 17. I feed mine sinking algae pellets every once in a while since I do tend to overfeed my guppies and my betta Liberty.


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## Sadist

They can jump. I have a partial lid, with the back of part removed and replaced with pothos vines. I have the water level low enough that I think nothing can jump out even in the leaf area. You can see how low the water level is on the picture of Sky. 

Yes, the females are bigger than the males. My female didn't come berried, which would have been some nice live food for everyone in the tank. I don't think their conditions are right for breeding. Some day, I want to get some red or blue shrimp to put in there. I'd love to get some micro crabs, but someone told me that they'd hide from the betta all day. The shrimp are bold enough to come out at feeding time and catch food particles next to the betta (I had one steal a blood worm from Mr. Fish once, it was funny watching it swim around with a blood worm in its claw).


----------



## Sadist

The 20 gallon stand I was looking at on Amazon went down to $50. I did some playing around on AqAdvisor and think I really need a 30 gallon for my otos and guppies if I keep them all. Even with that, I'd barely be able to put any shrimp or dwarf crayfish or anything like that in there. If I did that, I'd have it as another window tank, so then I'd hardly have to supplement the otos any more. That's a looooooot of plants to buy, though!


----------



## Sadist

No more wafers for the shrimp in Sky's tank! He ate some and is all bloated. I broke up what's left as much as I could and scattered it into the sand. Skipping his dinner. I'm hoping I can catch the shrimp and move them into the fry tank or something, but Sky's tank has so many top plants that it's really hard to catch anything in there.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Careful I heard ghost shrimp can eat guppy fry. Thats why I didn't put mine in there.


----------



## Nismo83

You need a betta to kill the shrimp lol


----------



## Sadist

Sky is a baby betta. He's still bloated today, but I got the wafer and the shrimp moved over in the dark last night. I gave him some daphnia.

The guppy fry look big enough that the shrimp aren't catching them right now. Maybe they would at night if the fry rest the way the adult guppies do. I'm not overly worried about it. There's plenty of algae from the window and bits of food that the fry missed as well as the remainder of the veggie wafer. If they caught any fry in the night, they've already eaten the body up.


----------



## Sadist

Daisy is hiding a lot today, so I moved her to the breeding net. She was constipated yesterday but otherwise normal. When I moved her over, she immediately hide under the java moss. I'm not sure if she's giving birth early or sick.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Hopefully its not either


----------



## Sadist

Everyone got daphnia since it's opened. I hope Daisy and Sky get cleared out!

Sky is still bloated, and his belly turned silver. I hope the daphnia clears him out. He's still swimming around and exploring, probably wondering where his shrimp went.


----------



## themamaj

Daphnia seems to work well for my guys. Hope Sky feels better. I'm impressed you are doing shrimp as well. I have contemplated it in some big tanks I have but wondered if betta would eat them. They are really neat to watch. How early would Daisy be to give birth? I imagine premie fry don't do well.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol. I'm having a problem of my own. I still cannot see anything on the next group of fry that are supposed to be separated soon. I need to lessen the load on my 5 gal fry tank. I can't decide if I want to put them in my 10 gal divided tank. If so should I put them on the male side or the female side. What do you think Sadist? With 2 nerite snails and 50+ guppy fry the water cannot stay clear for long. It's bothering me. I might move another snail to my adult guppy tank. But I don't think just that will make a difference.

Shrimp are awesome in my opinion. It just all really depends on the betta.


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## Sadist

I would definetly move the nerites over. They only eat algae, and the babies will also want to eat any algae in there. Essentially, they'll just be adding extra poop without cleaning anything else up. I'm not sure what to do with all the fry. Usually "when in doubt, put it with the males" doesn't work so well if you don't want accidental 20 pregnancies before they're even showing colors.

Daisy would be about a week early if she gave birth right now. That's assuming she came not pregnant, which was how she appeared. She might just be lonely. If I could tell the gender of Sunset's fry, I'd add some in there with her. :-(


----------



## themamaj

Aww poor Daisy. Do you think a mirror might help her think she has a friend?


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## AccaliaJay

The fry don't touch the brown algae. And I'm not sure what to do still. And guess what?!? More guppy fry are being popped out x.x


----------



## Sadist

Oh man, you need a big 50 gallon tank to handle all your guppies!

Sky's belly was down by dinner, but everyone has more daphnia anyways. 

I guess I could try a mirror for Daisy. I didn't even think about something like that!

That's a lot of fry for you! I expected something like that for me, but I was lucky with just a small litter.


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## AccaliaJay

Take my luck lol 14 so far


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> The fry don't touch the brown algae. And I'm not sure what to do still. And guess what?!? More guppy fry are being popped out x.x


Wow AccaliaJay you will have one full quiver! haha Best wishes with all the fry.


----------



## FishLover19

Beautiful guppies! I have too many guppies, so I finally separated my males and females but I also have fry in with the females and the older females are pregnant. I'm going to try to separate the male fry as soon as possible when I can tell what sex they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sadist

Daisy is doing poorly. She seems to have swim bladder problems even with the light feedings I've offered. She's trying to hide more, too.


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## themamaj

Come on Daisy not much longer to have those babies


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## Sadist

I put her in the quarantine tank with the babies and started a salt treatment. I only managed to get half of the salt for the container in over the day (trying to not shock the babies). She's livened up a bunch but still having swim bladder problems. I hope she pulls through, but if she doesn't, tomorrow is water change day.


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## themamaj

Other than typical things you look for in healthy fish, are there specific things to look for picking out a guppy?


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## Sadist

I looked for colors/patterns and tail types that I liked. There's a body form standard, but I haven't looked into it very much.

Daisy didn't make it through the night. It was really hard to get her out of the tank with all the babies in the way. I managed to untie the anubias from its rock. It's about time to move it into the oto tank for a day of cleaning, anyways. I have such a hard time tying plants to rocks, grrr! Back to our tragedy, I buried her with Speckles, Sunset, Dawn, and Aurora.

Good news is a lot of the babies are showing the darker areas on their caudal, and 1 or 2 are showing the full spot pattern! Funny how I'm getting spot patterns before they even show fin color.


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## themamaj

Oh I am so sorry about Daisy! I know she had a good life with you and you did so much to try to help. 

How exciting on the babies. That is really interesting how they get their spots first. Almost reminds me of little dalmatian puppies growing into their spots. So cute. I really enjoy reading your journal. It is fun to hear how the fry are developing. Any predictions of colors you might see? 

I feel your pain on the anubias. I looked in Nimbus's tank last night and he had knocked over his wood piece and it uprooted the anubias. I would get the wood back in position then the anubias would float up. Rrrr. Definitely a love/hate relationship with my plants!!!

So I am pondering this guppy thing a bit more. I would like to try 1 round of breeding just for the experience. What would you suggest I start with? 2 females and 1 male? Would you suggest treating them with a paraguard or something like that or salt initially as a preventative? Are they a bit more prone to illness than bettas? The ones from our local aquarium store are just solids. They would probably have best chance of less illness because they do a lot to quarantine fish. Drawback is not as pretty. If I go with cobra ones, I would have to get them at Petco. That particular store keeps bettas in pretty good condition so I would imagine their main tanks are ok. I check for any dead fish or poor water conditions, but haven't seen any obvious problems. So....making my Christmas list for my dad. Might be asking for a new 10 gallon and supplies


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## Sadist

1 male and 2-3 females would be a good start. After my experience with the normal pet store ones (I think they all had parasites), I think I'd recommend the boring ones that are properly quarantined before being displayed over the pretty ones. If you do get the pretty ones, I would throw as much medicine and treatments as you can without killing them with it. So far, I've had a 100% mortality rate from the petco and petsmart guppies. I'm not sure if they're just that low quality, if the parasites were too advanced by the time I got them home to treat them, or if there's just something off about my water or tank for them. I'm feeding them high quality frozen food, and there's a chance that I overfed some of them. Once I realized there was a chance of that, I cut down on food a lot, but they still bloated up and died. The fry are doing great, so it could just be that they are a bit more sensitive than bettas in regards of moving from breeder to store to home (separation anxiety from leaving siblings?). I've seen other people just get one super pregnant female from the store so they could raise the fry because they expect the store adult fish to all die.

So far, those dark spots are the only coloring I can see. I expect the fins to show yellow or the orange-toned red or both like the parents and for the males to have snakeskin patterns on their bodies. I'm so discouraged by all the deaths that I'd be willing to meet halfway with them if I can be sure they don't have parasites and can rig up a way to keep them warm in the car.

They are doing well with water changes, even big 50% ones. I haven't done any special drip way to add the water back, but they do tend to get in the way and get pushed around when I'm pouring it in. I do the standard match the temperature and dechlorinate. They're doing well with the shrimp, too. I think they're too big for the shrimp to try to catch at this point. 

I read somewhere that guppies like a little bit of salt in the water, and that could be a reason they're dying in my 10 gallon. I can't put salt in there because it would bother the otos (or so I've read). I have it in with the babies starting yesterday.

Edit: Pictures! You can see one of the fry with dark on the caudal, but I don't think it's the one with the full spot pattern.


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## Sadist

I'm glad I have the water level lowered in the tanks. Mrs. Fish just tried to jump out! Just what I need after all of the guppies and Mr. Fish deaths is for Mrs. Fish to flop out and get lost in the wires behind the desk.


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## themamaj

I can see their little dark spots! It looks like they have a yellow tint. I'm sorry about all the recent deaths. With loosing Hope and Crimson close together and Leo jumping today I am worried something else will happen or trying to figure if Im doing something wrong. Even got my reference books out and read last night. I guess even trying to do everything right still can't control outcomes sometimes.


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## Sadist

So true. I thought I saw a bit of yellow tint, too, but they're still sort of beige all over. I guess time will tell.


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## themamaj

I have completely lost my mind! I have babies! 4 guppy babies. At lps yes I know better but there were 4 little fry in tank with all males and maybe one female but all looked male.. Staff didn't know. They sold them to me 13 cents a piece. I realize risk but had to get them. Have no idea if just born or few weeks. Sooooo cute! Going to put them in a 2.5 with heater and floater plants. Is that ok? Should I add salt to water and how much. What should start out feeding? Have dahnia and brine shrimp and can boil egg. Excited and panicked all in one. Help!!! Posted pix when get home


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## themamaj

We made it home. How should I acclimate? Here is couple pix of bigger babies and blur of males in tank. There were some cobra females in adjacent tank. Who knows what will end up with.


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## Nismo83

they are cute...


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## themamaj

Well down to 3, but that's ok. One was obviously weaker and couldn't swim normal from get go. Almost rather happen now. Other 3 very active so hopeful can keep those. More I looked, they do look like newborns. Tried daphnia and they wouldn't go for it. Tried some crushed flakes and no deal. Off to boil and egg. Now where are you Sadist when I need to you to be on the computer haha. Feel free to msg me if you like.


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## AccaliaJay

Your freaking out over 3 babies is funny lol. I miss when I had 5 and not 72.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Your freaking out over 3 babies is funny lol. I miss when I had 5 and not 72.


Probably good I didn't start with 72 haha!! It's all good. Taking a deep breath


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## Sadist

Sorry, I'm in bed by that time! 

With the egg yolk, mix with tank water and dispense by dipping a toothpick in it then the tank. With that few, one dip should be okay, but they may need a snail or daily basters to clean up. A heater and floating plants should be fine. I have an uncycled sponge filter in with mine just to stir up the water and help make oxygen.

If you can get to a pet store again soon, I've been feeding mine frozen Omega One community formula, which is super fine. I cut off a small chunk and defrost in the fridge, then dish out with a toothpick. It'll be rough with just 3 to not over feed. I fed every 2 hours at first, then every 3, and now I'm down to 3 feedings a day.

Funny, you found fry at your store. I found one fry at mine but it was starting to color up already. There was a female in the male tank and that one little guy who somehow managed to survive weeks at the pet store! And of course, 20+ males swimming around.

I just saw someone mention feeding them Hikari First bites if you want a pellet formula. It'll certainly be less messy. I like my frozen food even if it's messy.


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## Sadist

Okay, took a picture of Blackfur, which is what my daughter named the largest of the otos. She's taking a rest in the gravel here.

Guppies also graze on algae, so if you have any plants from an established tank, that might help them out while you're at work. There's supposedly stuff in floating plant roots that they can munch on, too. I've got my fry tank in the window, and it's growing a bit too much algae at the moment.


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## AccaliaJay

I just feed my fry finely crush flakes that I feed the adults. And my tanks grow algae a lot.


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## Sadist

I see my fry grazing on the algae all day since I've added the shrimp. I think they're little copy monkeys!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol atleast the shrimp arnt try to eat them. I've been thinking and ima sell the older 5.


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## Sadist

I think they're too big for the shrimp to go after right now. The shrimp are pigging out on the green hair algae break out on the glass today. I need to get a tank-dedicated sponge and clean that mess up before it gets out of control. The plants in there are starting to go wild, too. The female shrimp was actually balanced on the wall eating.


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## AccaliaJay

I have something growing in my adult guppy/ betta tank. I have no clue if it's green hair algae or something else. It's not like extremely green. There's a picture. My ghost shrimp don't seem to touch it I wonder if it's cause the plant is almost at the water surface they stay near the bottom and middle. I wonder if the guppy fry would.


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## Sadist

Hmm, I don't know much about algae other than leaving the lights on forever on the oto tank to help it grow. I don't know what kind yours is, but the new green algae on the fry tank looks like little green snowflakes on the grass.

The roofer is done with the paperwork, so I'm heading over to the stores to pick up an algae scrubber on a stick. All of my spongy stuff for aquariums is on or in filters right now!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I know mind it as long as it doesn't turn brown then it really bothers me. My gravel has lots of brown algae in both tanks.


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## Sadist

That's the kind of algae my otos eat. I grow it on purpose for them! 

The fry are doing really great! I'm seeing a bit of yellow tint to some of the spotted fins. I'm beginning to think that Dapples is the daddy and not Speckles (remember, in the original post, I bought Dapples, Speckles, and Sunset, but noticed the next day that one of the girls was a boy. I returned Dapples and brought home a different female).


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## AccaliaJay

That's probably who the daddy is then


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## Sadist

Everyone's eating great today. I found some unknown organism in the 10 gallon and posted pictures to make sure it's harmless. I think it hitch hiked on the java moss, which I didn't properly quarantine because I wanted something established in the tank for the baby guppies.


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## themamaj

so glad your fry are doing so well!! do they all have a yellow tint? hoping to pick up some java moss today for mine while out. good point to look for hitchhikers. Usually only ones I have found are pond snails on occasion.


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## AccaliaJay

Glad their doing great. I have a pending sale on my 3 female older guppie fry


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## Sadist

I want to get some snails for some of the tanks, but I'm afraid to order something online with the winter temperatures setting in! The local snails are all the wrong type and unhealthy. I did see some sort of small snail at a pet store that zoomed around so quickly it was hidden by the time a sale's rep got to me. I couldn't tell what it was, though.

Of course, I also found a place that sells dwarf crayfish and colorful shrimp, but it's too cool to ship! It's hard to make myself stay patient and wait until warm weather.



themamaj said:


> so glad your fry are doing so well!! do they all have a yellow tint? hoping to pick up some java moss today for mine while out. good point to look for hitchhikers. Usually only ones I have found are pond snails on occasion.


I expected possible snails, but this is something else. I made a thread to hopefully id it.

They don't all have a yellow tint, but I think I see two different tail shapes. The ones with the most dots have a slight yellow tint at the base of the caudal.



AccaliaJay said:


> Glad their doing great. I have a pending sale on my 3 female older guppie fry


Awesome! I'm a little afraid to sell and ship my fish since it's getting cooler.


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## AccaliaJay

I'm selling local. 50 cents each. The money's gonna go toward food and more tank stuff.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> I'm selling local. 50 cents each. The money's gonna go toward food and more tank stuff.


That's awesome.


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## AccaliaJay

Our closest pet store is a 45 minute drive and they sell two for $5 and their in one tank so you don't know when or how long they've been pregnant and I got one that died two days after getting it from a cotton fungus. And the petsmart which is a hour and a half drive is $1 each. But their taken good care of.


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## Sadist

I think our prices were in between that, but they do their best to separate the genders. I think they don't medicate their tanks ever, so there's a high chance of disease!

My fry are still doing great. I saw missing ghost shrimp #5 in Sky's tank and moved him over. Hopefully, he'll be less shy with more shrimp around him! I really wish I could have something in with sky to clean up the leaves and such. I'll have to look into a snail of some sort and hope it doesn't climb out where the pothos is.


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## AccaliaJay

I have three Nerite snails they never go above the water level. Although I do have lids I wonder if mystery snails would stay below. I heard their great cleaners. I wanted mysteries but my petsmart was apparent out so my sister In law got me nerites.


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## Sadist

I've seen some pretty nerites around, but I was thinking of getting assassin snails. Maybe a nerite for Mrs. Fish's tank if she leaves it alone.


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## AccaliaJay

My nerites only eat brown algae so unless you have a lot of it I wouldn't get more than 1


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## Sadist

I'm already growing brown algae for the otos. Mrs. Fish has a lot in her tank, too, since it's near the oto tank and gets lots of residual light. There's a good chance that she'll try to kill one, so I'm hesitant about getting one.


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## AccaliaJay

Ah okay then XD


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## themamaj

Nerites are beautiful but had one get out of tank last night. Only back porthole where filter and heater is. Everyone wanting to jump out this week. Ahhhhhh.

1 guppy doing great, 1 looks like going down. Ever known of just one fry doing ok on own? How old do they have to be before can be put with males and not eaten? Glad your fry all doing well.


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## AccaliaJay

They have to be big enough that they sent considered food by the other guppies. I don't know exactly how old


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## Sadist

I had a nightmare about trying to separate the genders last night. The ghost shrimp were huge and trying to hurt the fish, I had trouble catching them, and several tore their fins up flopping in the net. In the end of the dream, I had one gorgeous female that looked like a butterfly. Also in the dream, a huge number of males made it into the female tank, and I had trouble fishing them back out. So weird!

I was planning on trying to separate the genders a bit today. I've seen several that are developing gravid spots, and a few where the iridescence is covering up the line. The kiddo's home, though, so she's keeping me a bit busy. We're watching the new dinosaur movie today, and I'm also expecting some packages.

The package of plants that I bought from a forum user is finally in my area (tracking showed that it arrived in NH on Tuesday and expected it to deliver on Wednesday, ha!). I'm not sure when my live food will arrive, because the tracking is doing the same weird thing again. The package arrived in CA on Wednesday, and they predict it will arrive on my porch today.

Everyone got mysis shrimp today. It was funny watching the fry dart around with shrimp heads in their mouth. Mine, mine, mine!


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## AccaliaJay

XD yeah its a little hard finding the guppy genders at first.


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## themamaj

Too funny on dream. Sounds like something I would dream. When i have something on my mind i dream it in weird scenarios. Let us know how many boys and girls end up with. Have fun watching dinosaurs movie. Have heard the Snoopy one at theaters really cute.


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## Sadist

My 5 year old's attention span is still not great with movies. While she said she loved the dino movie and wanted to stay and watch it again, she was jumping up and down and climbing on the railing in front of us and howling with the characters on screen. Thankfully, she chose a seat away from people, so I didn't reprimand her except to keep her voice down a little.

I didn't get a chance to work on moving the fry around. My floating plants did come in, and I put some of them with the fry. There were too many for the quarantine tank, so I had to put most of them in the 10 gallon. While I was ignoring quarantine, I went ahead and put some in the lightest corner of Mrs. Fish's tank. I don't think I'll get to work much on the fish while the family is home this weekend. While none have the male fin yet, I read they can somehow get pregnant at 4 weeks old. I do see at least one female with a dark gravid spot, and I'm paranoid she's pregnant already.

While I was feeding shrimp pieces to the fry, I noticed a ghost shrimp swim up and steal a piece! I really missed having them.


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## Sadist

Judging by the video, I have several that are showing male and several that are female. I also have live food shrimp coming in soon, so I'm going to get them all separated during tank maintenance tomorrow. I'm hoping the males get along with baby sky because I want to grow my shrimp culture in that tank. They aren't quite big enough to eat the adult shrimp, but they might harass them to death or eat all the offspring until they bloat and die. I can't wait until they color up enough to sell!

I'm also torn between trying a local store nerite snail or trying to ship one in the cool weather for Mrs. Fish's tank. I've got so many floating plants in there in an effort to diminish the brown algae, but it's getting to the point where I could suck it off of the sand with the turkey baster and add it to the oto tank.


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## AccaliaJay

I honestly trust my own sight better than online places.


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## Sadist

Well, either I suck at gendering, or I have 2 males and 8 females (and one missing, maybe the shrimp caught it). I went ahead and kept them all together since I thought the males would get lonely and die with just two of them. I moved them all to the 10 gallon, where I found a small colony of those shrimp hitch hikers in the gravel during maintenance. I was only able to find one in the bucket, and I put it in Mrs. Fish's tank for her to have fun chasing. The first 8 swam into the net, but the last two tried to hide. I'll have trouble trying to catch them again when they're old enough to sell.

I'm going to go nerite shipping here and see if I get lucky and find a healthy one.

Oh, good news! Some of the fry had that orange-toned red color coming in on their caudals. I'm super excited that at least some of them have that coloring.


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## Sadist

The lady dropped the snail and cracked its shell. It's a hairline crack, and I took it home anyways. It's moved a tiny bit, and I'm hoping my super hard water will help it heal. I guess I should have gotten a cuttle thing while I was out.

They also had some wingless flies, so I bought a batch and fed some to everyone. The guppies were too busy exploring to notice them, but Mrs. Fish was enthusiastic, and baby Sky ate two in a nicely vicious manner.

They had some sort of small, fast snail that I almost tried to get, too. I was assuming they were ramshorn, which would help out Sky's plant debris. I didn't get one because I couldn't quite tell what it was.

Mrs. Fish's tank has some sort of white, hard things on her tank wall. I noticed them yesterday. The only live thing I've added were some of those hitch hiker shrimp, and I don't imagine they'd lay eggs all over the glass like that. I don't see any other tiny snail things that could do that, either. I did move over a plant when it was done with quarantine and had the algae cleaned off by the otos. I might just take my algae scrubber to it.

Edit: Took some pictures! The nerite is zooming all over, too. In the picture (you can see the crack), it's moved 3 inches and vacuumed the whole way. Now, it's in the back corner climbing the glass. Mrs. Fish is interested but hasn't attacked. Wow, I can see its mouthparts scraping the glass! I had to use flash off because the tank was showing too much reflection of my desk.


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## Sadist

Edit 2: I forgot to mention that I saw a female guppy in with the males and several fry. I pointed it out so they could fix it. I don't know how it happened -- it was the snakeskin male tank with red and yellow spotted fins and had a female with solid blue fins in there.


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## AccaliaJay

Fry are looking good. Apparently some more of my little ones died. I don't know if my mom removed them cause iv been babysitting on and off at my brothers the past three days. And it sucks cause soon one of the guppies should be giving birth again


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## Sadist

One of the things on Mrs. Fish's tank wall hatched. It's moving around like the hitch hiker things, but it's too small to really identify. I guess Mrs. Fish is soon to be super fat! I got a cute little flare from her when I brought lunch in.

The nerite is still doing well.


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## themamaj

Your nerite is so cute. Looks like mine. Your fry look amazing. What is the age now? My two are hanging on. One doing really well and eats like a horse. The other is much smaller but is eating some but doesn't swim a whole lot.


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## Sadist

They are 27 days old. More are in the eating area, so I'll try to knock more flies into the water (the flies crawled onto the floating plants while the fry were away).


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## themamaj

Wow 27 days! I look forward to mine growing! Up to 8 days woo hoo haha


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## Sadist

They're having trouble noticing me for feeding time. I crushed up some pellets and put the dust in there over the biggest group. It sunk, but they noticed it falling and got at least some food.

The nerite is still doing well. Mrs. Fish flared at it finally, but she seems to have noticed the hatching shrimp things and started chasing them around.


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## Sadist

About half of the guppies showed up at feeding time last night, and only 2 this morning. I see the rest, but they're scattered all over the tank in the plants. I hope there's enough micro organisms to sustain them in there. I think it'll be a pain to catch them with the net in there now they they know what it is and won't just swim into it.


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## AccaliaJay

So not counting the 5 that are sexed, I have 11 surviving guppy fry. So far. Two are still questionable So it may be 9. Also my male guppy fry are starting to get their gonopodium thingy or whatever you call it. On the 3rd they'll be 2 months. So thats problem when your males might start developing their fin. So switched the two questionable guppy fry to a 1 gallon and am putting my betta Blaze back into his 5 gallon..


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## Sadist

Awesome! I love your Blaze's and Liberty's colors.

I just had my secondary filter fail in the 10 gallon. I think I'm going to replace it with a sponge filter since I have that extra air pump laying around. The fry like the less water movement, but I'm worried there isn't enough for the otos all over. So far, they're still on both sides of the tank, but I'm keeping an eye on them.

With the fry all over the 10 gallon, I can't really count them or see most of them most of the time. I'm thinking I should have put them in sky's 5 gallon.

I'm still waiting for my live food shipment. I have the tracking number for it, the seller did use 2 day priority mail, but it's been a week. I expected a 1 day delay because of Thanksgiving, but I'm really afraid everything will die on the way here. I'm wishing I hadn't moved the fry out of the little tank so quickly.

Updates on Stripey the nerite. It seems to still be doing really well. I was worried last night when I saw it on the thermometer, which had detached from the tank wall, but this morning the snail was back on the glass again. Oh dear, Mrs. Fish is attacking it. Not just flaring, she was biting at the shell. If this keeps up, I'll move it to the window tank and probably have to rehome it when its shell is better (from the sales lady dropping it).


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## AccaliaJay

I know how u feel with the filter issues. My filter in my liberty, guppy, ghost shrimp and Nerite 5 gallon tank quit working so I had to switch it out with the one for Blazes tank. I'm just glad he doesn't use it. And I love them I just wish one of them would eat pellets. I have a small sample pack of betta pellets and neither will eat them. If I had anoth tank I would get another betta


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## Sadist

I use lots of frozen foods and have recently (shh) branched out into live foods. I do have pellets as a back up, and the bettas I have aren't picky about them.


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## AccaliaJay

Lucky XD Iv been feeding Blaze national geographic betta flakes since I got him in February I think that's why he won't eat them


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## themamaj

Poor little snail. Hard knock life  Chance, my laid back betta, went postal on me when I first put a nerite in his tank. He would try to attack it and I thought wow there is no way this will work. After a day or so, he totally ignored it and could care less. If your betta is very observant he may feel like a "threat" to his environment but probably will chill out with a little time. One Chance realized the snail did almost nothing, he ignored it. 

My small guppy died so now down to one. Got some moss FINALLY after 3 attempts to the store. Holiday hours and normal early closings driving me crazy. I would like to do a full tank cleaning. Do you think the remaining fry would be ok moving it to a cup temp and then back in tank or should I just do a partial and vacuum again? Determined for this guy to make it.


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## AccaliaJay

I think Blaze is happy being back in his tank. I'll try getting guppy fry pics tomarrow


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## Sadist

I'm not sure how long the fry can stay in a cup. It needs to be heated; I've found that mine are super sensitive to heat fluctuations, and the cup would cool down quickly. 

My female betta was repeatedly attacking Stripey the snail, so I moved Stripey to the shrimp tank for now. I'm afraid Mrs. Fish will eventually widen the crack or knock Stripey off the wall and get to the soft parts. Stripey's feeler stalks are rather small, so they're still intact.

I finally got an update of my live food package, and it's coming today! I'm super excited, but I'm also scared it'll come while I'm gone on my appointment. It's chilly out there, and I don't know how much insulation this buyer uses. To be honest, I'm not sure if the fish will still be alive after all this time (9 days instead of 2).


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## Sadist

Well, at least some of the gammarus shrimp were still alive! I primed them, acclimated them, and dumped them all into the shrimp/quarantine tank. Between the ghost shrimp and the living feeder shrimp, I expect the bodies to get taken care of. There's also a ton of algae in there for them to eat, and I can throw the rest of the java moss in to help them hide tomorrow. The stuff carted in with the java moss was in fact gammarus shrimp, so there's a little colony of it started in the 10 gallon if I didn't get them all with the gravel vacuum on Monday.

edit: The ghost shrimp seemed to be attacking Stripey and getting to her stalks, so I put her back in with Mrs. Fish.


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## ShadeSlayer

Gosh, I can’t wait to get more guppies. you guys are making me jealous! :0) So, whats the fry count for you, Sadist?


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## BettaSplendid

Wow, the shrimp were going after the snail?! I would have never seen that one coming. Hmm. My mom has 2 nerite snails and I watched, fascinated, at their mouths moving rhythmically over the glass. It made me laugh some...they look like they have bunny rabbit teeth or something.

Your tanks look really nice.


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## Sadist

ShadeSlayer said:


> Gosh, I can’t wait to get more guppies. you guys are making me jealous! :0) So, whats the fry count for you, Sadist?


7 came up for dinner, found 1 dead in the corner. It was all bloated. I thought the fry were immune to whatever was bloating the adults in there since they did fine in the breeding net! That leaves 2 missing, and I hope to not find little corpses when I do mid week cleaning tomorrow.



BettaSplendid said:


> Wow, the shrimp were going after the snail?! I would have never seen that one coming. Hmm. My mom has 2 nerite snails and I watched, fascinated, at their mouths moving rhythmically over the glass. It made me laugh some...they look like they have bunny rabbit teeth or something.
> 
> Your tanks look really nice.


Thanks so much! I really love watching mine eat, too. I almost named her Toophy. 

I'm surprised by the shrimp, too. Maybe it was just grooming micro stuff from the shell and happened to be at the head end. The snail's feelers are so tiny and thin that I feared she would lose them to the shrimp.


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## Sadist

7 at breakfast today. Nitrates are at 10, so I'm going to wait 'til tomorrow for the water change. I forgot it was water change day and put food in for the otos. I don't want to siphon it all out on accident.

I'm still not sure what's on Mrs. Fish's tank. It looks like scattered snail eggs, but it could be some sort of planeria, too. Stripey doesn't seem to be eating it. Mrs. Fish is at least leaving Stripey alone, now. I'm hoping our super hard water can heal her shell up, and I'll get a cuttle thing next time I'm at the store (and hopefully not bring home anyone I don't need).

I don't see any more of my gammarus culture that came in yesterday. Either they're really good at hiding or the shrimp somehow caught them all even with the food I dropped in for them (frozen community formula and betta pellets).


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## Sadist

AquaticArts.com has a m/f pair of dwarf crayfish that I'd really love to breed and then have dwarf crayfish in all my tanks!


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## BettaSplendid

I ordered marimos from aquaticarts. I was very pleased with their service and prices and the quality of the marimos. Can dwarf crayfish go in with bettas, or will they grab them?


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## Sadist

Someone on the forums keeps dwarf crayfish and bettas together. The only thing strange he ever saw was when a crayfish rode on the bettas caudal with his pincers once. 

I've used the same seller for plants before, too. The plant didn't like shipping too much, but it dropped a bunch of baby plants as it died.


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## Nismo83

as long as the betta don't swim too low, it should be fine


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## BettaSplendid

Nismo83 said:


> as long as the betta don't swim too low, it should be fine


I am not sure that is very reassuring.


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## Sadist

My bettas don't follow the rules on controlling the top of the tank. With small tanks, they decide they control the whole thing.


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## Sadist

I forgot to manage the pictures before I got online. Here we go! Sorry for the poor quality. They also don't all hang out together all the time.


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## themamaj

They look great! Russell on the site keeps DOC with her bettas and doesn't have any issues. I have heard the key is having lots of hides. I have thought about getting some once I get my cholla wood in but they are very pricey locally. Have thought of ordering from JDAquatics on the site. Have heard very good review on him. They also carry plants, catfish, shrimp, etc. He has a thread on the for sale section.


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## Sadist

I'd have to order them online -- they don't even carry them here. PetCo has branched out into different shrimp types, but I'm iffy about buying shrimp from them. There are usually only 0-3 of any type there together, and I think shrimp can feel threatened without friends.


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## themamaj

I think you are right they need to be in groups to do best.


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## Sadist

My shrimp tank is overflowing with algae and food. I guess I'll cut down on the food a bit. I don't see any more adult feeder shrimp, but I thought I saw a few babies. I think too many of them died in shipping, but I'm still hoping for a proper colony. I see adult ones in the 10 gallon from time to time and sometimes feed one to Mrs. Fish.

Stripey is doing fine. I've seen that she's branched out to vacuuming the sand in a few places.

I just found another guppy fry body stuck to the filter intake. They ate crushed betta pellets for breakfast, and I think I'll open a daphnia packet for everyone later today.

Taking the kiddo hiking with a picnic for lunch, then we're going shopping at Target for presents. Her school is doing a toy drive for the Marines to pick up and donate. The person who used to sponsor it died during the shootings a few months ago.

The pothos in Sky's tank gotta go water leaking


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## themamaj

Sounds like a fun day with your daughter!


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## Sadist

The pothos in Sky's tank is super rooty, roots all the way down to the substrate. I just need the high light plants to stay rooted so they'll grow a wall against the sun side and shade the low light plants elsewhere.


----------



## Sadist

One is still looking yellow, but there are at least three with the orangey-red color. A few are late bloomers and just now starting to get spots on their caudals.


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## AccaliaJay

My oldest guppy fry one of the males have orange XD meaning the father must have had some orange. It's a little blurry since he won't stay still. Glad yours are getting their colors.


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## Nismo83

it has a tuxedo body


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## Sadist

Down to 6 fry. I figured out what happened to the two missing ones.

3 with the orange-toned red color
2 silvery ones just starting to get spots
1 yellow

Some are round tails, and some aren't. The non round tails are the short-finned fan-shaped ones (I don't remember the name of that type).

1 male, 5 females

I noticed over the weekend that the tank PH is different than it used to be. I wonder if it has something to do with the adult fish's mortality rate. I have no idea what changed it, can only guess that the tap water changed. I haven't been testing the PH every week, so I don't know when it happened. The otos seem unaffected.

None of the feeder shrimp culture seems to be alive any more. Maybe they're just really great at hiding or are all in the sponge filter grooves, where it's darker. I did see a few of the accidental ones in the 10 gallon.


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## AccaliaJay

That's a big harem 0.0 lol kidding. So the women who are getting my 3 female naught a Molly one of the lyre tail kind. She also bought a yellow tail mail and I think some type of Cory or catfish thingy I dunno.


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## Sadist

I think I might have 3 males and 3 females. Some of the ones I thought were females that hadn't developed gravid spots now have a lot of iridescence on their side covering that line by the air bladder.

A couple of blurry pictures for your enjoyment. Their colors are really starting to stand out.

They're still making their own little cliques. There seems to be a clique of 4 and then one that hangs out by itself. It's the smallest one, so maybe it just gets picked on a lot.


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## themamaj

Oh wow! There colors are looking like adults now. Beautiful!


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## Sadist

The females already look like mini adults! The biggest one is still smaller than Sky. I'll post a picture of him from yesterday if I can find it.


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## Sadist

Oh, the decisions! Aquatic Arts now has clear and brown dwarf crayfish as well as the orange pair. I want them all! I'd probably be better off just getting an assassin snail for Sky's tank and a filter shrimp or nothing for the 10 gallon. I've concluded that Mrs. Fish can't hurt Stripey, and Stripey seems to feel the same way. I was a little afraid when I saw her on the heater cord, but she didn't stray out of the water. She seems good at turning around at the water line and coming back for more algae noms. I'd love to put some red shrimp in there to contrast with the green plants and compare with Mrs. Fish's royal blue, but I think she'd kill them all and scatter the corpses and revel in the lamentation of the women.


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## Sadist

Edit: I got the orange crayfish for the 10 gallon tank to brighten it up. My coupon expired with them, so I didn't get the free bunch of plants I wanted  I also got an assassin snail for Sky's tank. As I understand it, they spend a lot of time buried in the sand, which will stir it up and keep toxic gas buildup from happening. I can also hide a bloodworm down there once or twice a week, and Sky won't bloat himself up on the shrimp pellets like he did before.


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## AccaliaJay

Nice Sadist! Although I lost a lot of my guppy fry my animal count just went back up because my moms dog had 10 puppies. Would have been 11 but since it was her first ever litter I think she was extremely nervous and accidentally ripped the first pups stomach open. Poor thing. 4 females and 6 males. The one that died was a male


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## Sadist

Wow, well 10 is a lot to handle. Does she even have enough teets to feed that many?


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## BettaSplendid

Oh my..! That description of what Mrs. Fish would do to some shrimp! Both frightening and halarious at the same time. 

Yay, more CPO! I am looking forward to seeing them!


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## AccaliaJay

My mom says she has 8. And we've noticed she doesn't do well when trying to move them. She starts whining so we have to help her. I think it overwhelms her. I would be to. Our house as small as it is that's a lot of black fuzz balls running around later on. Hopefully they do not act like Mia did when she was a pup. She would no stay out from under our feet. I can't count how many times she tripped me. I wonder if I can find that pic of her as a puppy.


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## Sadist

It took Mrs. Fish many tries before she gave up trying to kill Stripey (a nerite snail).

8 puppies is still a lot!

Bad news with the fry. Only the 3 biggest ones came out. Two are missing, and I found one dying and fed it to Mrs. Fish. It was the runty one that I missed when culling in their first few days. It was small enough that she ate it without traumatizing it. Of course, now I'm second guessing myself. What if it was sick, and now I've made Mrs. Fish sick? Ugg. With those three, it appears to be two males and one female. The male's anal fins are changing shape but haven't become the gonopodium.

The ghost shrimp were pretty cute today. They came out of hiding when I was scrubbing algae, and I had to stop to keep them from getting hurt. I put some of my defrosted frozen community formula, and they went crazy catching it and "Mine!" over away from the others. I saw only four of them, and I'm hoping #5 is just molting and hiding where I can't find it.

Stripey is doing great, zooming around Mrs. Fish's tank.


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## AccaliaJay

That's good. And we found a dead female puppy so it's down to 9. We think Mia accidentally laid on it. Oh and Zora isn't swimming right I don't know if she's gonna make it.


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## Sadist

:-( 

I'm thinking of moving the remaining guppy fry back to the little tank and rehoming them. There's something off about the 10 gallon that they don't like. The problem is rehoming them nearby without shipping in time for the tank to be ready to quarantine my incoming assassin snail and pair of dwarf crayfish.


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## AccaliaJay

Facebook, Craigslist?


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## Schmoo

I suggest trying Craigslist. :3


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## Sadist

My snail and crayfish are on their way already! I'm so excited!


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Just some advice -

I bred guppies for a few year, and here is my two cents on my personal experience with these beautiful fish:

I found, the less you move them about, the more likely they are to survive. Especially pregnant females. I remember distinctively one beautiful Moscow midnight girls I had, she had several false alarms and taking her in and out of the breeding trap resulted in some premature fry when she did give birth, and some still born fry. She died the following day. 

To start with, I hate those plastic traps. They are death traps in my experience. Fry fall through the holes, if the guppy is not used to it they become easily stressed, which is not what you want when they are heavily pregnant. The 'v' insert is dangerous once you have fry in them, I squashed several pulling it out, which made me feel incredibly sick and guilty. They are also too small for the girl to be comfortable. I don't know whether you use them, but that's my views on it.

The best option I found was to either leave the female in the community / breeding tank (had to make sure they had purebred fry sometimes per my LFS's preferences), and I would densely plant the tank with thick plants. Fake and live. I have one fake one that when buried the base that is, only fry could squeeze in between and were safe until I rescued them. I also sometimes put a plastic bottle in with holes small enough to keep other fish and out and a,low fry in, that worked sometimes. 

However, my recommendations are, having a pregnant females tank. The moment you know they are pregnant, the sooner the better, put them in. This means less stress when they are later in their pregnancy. Have thick bottom plants, etc, and you will have a good amount of fry hiding in the plants. Once she has give birth, if possible leave her for a while to recover somewhere (better if you don't have to net) I always left my females for at least a day before I put them back in the community tank / non pregnant females (no males).

It's really whatever works for you. I found a 2 females to 1 male ratio best if in a community tank, but if I was keeping them seperated until specific breeding pairs were chosen, it's fine. If you can breed them separately it helps, as your sure who's carrying who's offspring and what to expect. You will get a real trained eye to an early pregnancy or labour the more times you do it.  it's a lot of fun! I only gave up when the last of my line from several years sadly passed away due to a disease that wiped out the whole bunch, from an un QT male!! I felt such an idiot for that. ):

Good luck, and see what works for you! I will follow you closely to see how you do! If you want any advice then don't be afraid to shoot me a PM ^^


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## Sadist

Thanks! I have only the fry left right now. I used a breeding net instead of those clear plastic things. I put lots of java moss in the bottom for the fry to hide in during the birth, and then I let the mother stay in there with extra food for 24 hours. She died a week later, and all of the adult fish have died. I did notice that my PH had changed over the month, and that could be the culprit. 

The fry (5-6 weeks old) are not doing well now, too. The three I have left are all hiding and didn't come out to eat. I'm going to end my guppy experience with them because something is just not right with my tank for them, and I don't want to cause unneedful deaths.


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## Schmoo

I'm so sorry that you've had a bad experience with guppies, Sadist. :c


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## Sadist

I really like them, but I'm not willing to keep buying them if they're going to die. I think I'll have the crayfish be my color in the 10 gallon.


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## BettaSplendid

They are sensitive. I have lost 4 guppies now.  Bettas are so tough, in comparison.

Sad sigh.

Are the crayfish coming tomorrow? I am excited for you!


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## Sadist

They should have been here today, but USPS is being super slow with the US holiday season in full swing. My last 2 day shipment took 9 days, then they left it at the door without ringing the bell or knocking (my gammarus shrimp). I left a note to this seller to make sure it's labeled live animal so they don't just leave it. My non animal shipments have been the same.


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## Sadist

BettaSplendid said:


> They are sensitive. I have lost 4 guppies now.  Bettas are so tough, in comparison.
> 
> Sad sigh.
> 
> Are the crayfish coming tomorrow? I am excited for you!


I thought otos were sensitive, too, but mine are all thriving. The only death I had was when Mr. Fish went berserk and another that got caught in the veggy clip. Now, I just don't do clips at all for their food.


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## AccaliaJay

I'm glad you found things you love Sadists. Today is a sad day for me. I lost one of my guppy females Zora and my betta Blaze... I don't even know how I lost Blaze. He was doing just fine last night..


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## Sadist

:-( Sometimes, bad stuff just happens.


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## AccaliaJay

Mhm now I'm trying to figure out what to do with rearranging my tanks. Do I want to leave space another betta or no. My mom should be going near petsmart soon so I was thinking of going in a taking a look at their bettas


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## Sadist

Well, I still have one last fry that is thriving. I moved them back to the shrimp tank, and he's the one that survived. His color is coming in nicely, and his fin is starting to curl into the gonopodum thingy. Bonus pictures of the rest of my crew (minus the otos, who are in shadey areas and hard to photograph).


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## themamaj

Guppy looks great. Is that your baby betta? Wow how he has colored up and grown! Tanks look great and love love the cray! Are they not the cutest


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## BettaSplendid

That crowntail- Mrs. Fish or Sky?- must feel sooooo secure in that tank. I love all the roots. Guppy looks cute! Too bad they are so fragile. Comes with the pretty colors because of inbreeding. I just have to enjoy them while they last...sigh...and be as gentle as I can. Poor little things. Can't beat myself up about it when one dies. I wish they were hardier. Well.

I have been looking forward to crayfish pictures. The one on the sponge filter is just precious. I LOVE that!


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## Sadist

Sky and Mrs. Fish are both crowntails. Sky's pothos plant has more roots on it.

Thanks for the compliments! I really love the crayfish, too. I still haven't come up with good names. They're hard to tell apart; both have stripes. The stripes on one are a tiny bit darker, and I'm not sure if it's because it's molted more recently or like that all of the time! I really love when they get bold and come out of their caves. They have little disputes when they wander too close to each other, though.

I'm enjoying my last baby guppy as much as I can. He hangs with the ghost shrimp as much as they tolerate it, and he doesn't seem to be stressed by being the only one.


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## Sadist

One of the crayfish molted on the outside of a hide, and it's really creepy seeing the exoskeleton hanging onto the hide by itself. It managed to come out without breaking anything, so it looks like some museum replica thing.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

I've never had crayfish, so I'm not familiar with that. It sounds pretty hilarious though, that cracked me up. I have visions of it hanging on. :,)


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## themamaj

I hate you only have one guppy left. I know how hard you have worked. I this one cont to thrive. The exoskeleton are really bizarre aren't they? I've had two molten. One you could see the top where it busted out. Looked like a fighter plane with top open. I took that one out of tank. Second was also pretty intact. I left it to get pix. Came back later and gone but little cray hiding close by. Have heard to leave the shells as they sometimes eat them for calcium. Have you ever read that?


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## Sadist

I've read that about shrimp, so I've been leaving the crayfish molts in there, too. Now, both of mine have molted since they got here. They're more out and about lately, too. I missed getting a picture of one climbing the cryptocoryne.

My poor crypts; I think I damaged the root system trying to vacuum the gravel really well after Mr. Fish was moved out. A lot of them are coming out of the gravel with little or no roots on them. Most of the leaves look healthy. I've replanted them, but they keep coming out, and they're sparser than they usually are. The hubby's going to hate me going back to the store for more plants to fill those places in if they die. I've had some of them for almost a year :-(

The rest of the fish are doing well. The little guppy is starting to get his snakeskin markings. Of course, they started right where a female's gravid spot would be. I was super confused that he has the male fin and a huge gravid spot, but then I realized the darkness was the beginnings of a stripe.


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## themamaj

That is very interesting. I saw some snake skin ones at aquarium store that were in male tank that looked male w spot. They were young so wonder if similar w more stripe development. I stood very confused at tank and trying to figure if it could be a female. They have seperate tanks though. Have you named fry?


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Aw. I just bought a shed load of live plants, and they are definitely worth it. I really want a moss ball to go in there. I think it would look cute. I just can't seem to find anywhere selling them, they were displaying some but none for sale. I might get some more of shorter plants, to provide some more cover near the filter. 

It's sad he's your last one. I got really attached to one of my homebreds, his name was Gus Gus, and I was distraught when he got attacked by my loach.
So cute yours is getting his patterns  I'll be getting a few endlers for my nano tank I have currently. It's got a sick Cardinal in. Not sure what an Endlers bioload is, but if it's too much I'll probably have it as a QT or Hospital for my girls.

Let's see some pictures of him? Bet he's quite grown up. 

I saw some guppy fry in the girl tank at PAH, I was laughing. I would of said but chances are it would get gobbled before it could be saved, the tank was chocka full.


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## Sadist

My daughter gave him a long name that I can't remember. Cornelious something. His tail is a different type than the others had been, too. At first, I thought he had gotten nipped, but the difference is still there. It looks like the development of lyretail.

I don't have a great picture of him right now. Maybe next week when the kiddo is back in school, I'll have the time to get better pictures. I got one this morning of one of the crayfish hanging from the floating plants the same way the ghost shrimp do. I have no idea how it got there. The ghost shrimp swim a lot better than crayfish. The camera is recharging, and it won't let me connect to the computer while it's doing that. Again, might be next week before I can post it.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Awe. I remember when I was really little my mum got me a hamster. I called it something like "Peter Badger Speedy King", lol. He was a cool hamster but it was terrible when he died. 
Woah, lyretail? I'm super interested in seeing how he turns. Do get pictures when you can!  Lol, crayfish sound funny. I would consider them but I'm jut not sure, I really like not having to worry about crushing little shrimps. I was forever doing that when I had them in my community tank, and I always felt really guilty afterwards for being so clumsy. :shock:


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## Sadist

My crayfish are about the same size as a betta, and I believe they have thicker shells than shrimp. They're territorial with each other, so you couldn't have as many as shrimp. I'm really enjoying both the shrimp and crayfish. I wish the dwarf crayfish came in more colors, though. I've only seen natural (brownish blotches) and orange. Normal crayfish (4-6? inches) are probably too big for my size tanks.


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## themamaj

Can't wait to see pictures of guppy and crays and shrimp hanging on floating plants. That is incredible they do that. I did have a shrimp come up to surface today when feeding Flare frozen daphnia. The shrimp looked at it and Flare looked at shrimp. Boy was that a look let me tell you! The shrimp figured he better go back down to the bottom and wait for food to fall lol!


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## BettaSplendid

There are dwarf blue crayfish here:

http://www.theshrimptank.com/aquatic-critters/crayfish/blue-dwarf-crayfish/

Cute! I think I read that CPO are the least aggressive of all the colors though.


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## themamaj

Betta Splendid did you read the description of crayfish on that site? It said dark blue to grey depending on the individual and their moods. Lolol I would end up with a moody girl. Love the look of blue crayfish. They are so pretty. 

Sadist I also saw someone listed dwarf blue on aquabid. I wonder if an orange and blue would get along? Did your daughter have a good xmas? She is at a fun age.


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## BettaSplendid

Dwarf crayfish "mood rings". (I got a bizarre mental image from that one...)

I really like the look of the CPO though, mini lobsters. But blue is always nice.


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## AccaliaJay

Hey everyone! Hope you had a great Christmas and New Years. Sadist remember that one male I showed you that was getting color. Well now look at him.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Crayfish. They sound rather hilarious. I'm just not sure whether I'd like them.
They just crawl and eek I might end up touching one. :,)

Blue crayfish are pretty  are they naturally that colour or injected?

Can't wait to see Cornelious. :3


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Hey everyone! Hope you had a great Christmas and New Years. Sadist remember that one male I showed you that was getting color. Well now look at him.


He looks great! Beautiful colors!


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## Sadist

Wow, look at the little guy! I can't wait to post pictures. 

Today, the little Cornelius was too busy begging for food to see the food I put in there, and a ghost shrimp was swimming around grabbing it up!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol poor buddy.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Lol, that was like Rosaline yesterday. She was busy begging and her sisters gobbled it up. :,)


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## Sadist

The snail eggs on the plant that came with the crayfish hatched at some point. I see one that's about half a centimeter wide cleaning some algae in Sky's tank. Spiral the assassin snail is nearby, but he appears to be dormant. There's no dead stink, but he's all tucked up hiding in the shell (I can see the bottom of the foot and that's it). I put him down closer to the "pest" snail. I hope he finds it! I was about to go buy some from petco.


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## BettaSplendid

You were about to go by some what from Petco..? Plants? Assassin snails? I might need an assassin snail soon! Lots of pond snails came in on the hyacinth. Right now they are just doing clean up and I like them...for now.


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## Sadist

I was going to buy pest snails for the assassin snail to eat.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh! LOL. Well lucky you then.  How ravenous are assassin snails? Will they eat algae too?


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## themamaj

Don't ever buy pond snails! I could bring you all you ever wanted. Ugg have been battling them for weeks trying to suck up with vacuum as many as can. Our local store has been out of assasins forever. I keep begging them to get some in. Pond snails driving me nuts!!!! Mine snuck in on a plant.


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## AccaliaJay

I think my nerites had eggs but they havnt hatched which I'm glad cause I think 3 nerites are enough


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> I think my nerites had eggs but they havnt hatched which I'm glad cause I think 3 nerites are enough


dumb question but do you have to have two nerites to reproduce?


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

I've never been keen on snails and have never ever considered them thus far, however, if they kill those pest snails I battle with every time I have a new batch of plants I might get one. What's the pros and cons of each? Really if they kill those pesky tiny awful ones I might be able to justify one. I just don't know a first about snails apart from how to kill them off :lol:


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## Sadist

Different kinds of pest snails do different things, but they can be beneficial to your tank as long as they don't get too much food. Too much food = population explosion, which can mess up your cycle. Some pest snails eat algae, some eat decaying plant matter or things growing on the decaying plant matter, some burrow into the sand and keep noxious fumes from building up.

I bought an assassin snail from Aquatic Arts a while back with research that they will eat leftover fish food at the bottom and can be fed a bloodworm once a week. They mostly eat other snails, which is why I was planning on buying a few. I'm not sure why my pest snail got so big except maybe the assassin snail is dormant or dying. I may buy a new one if and only if the pest snails have some population explosions.

Nerites, as I understand it, may need brackish water for the eggs to hatch. From my limited research online, they have male and female nerites, identified from something near the right eye stalk thingy. Males have some sort of pouch thing there that holds boy parts that come out during mating.

That's about all I know about aquatic snails. As a side note, most of the nerite snail parts stay in the shell, which has kept mine from becoming a dead body scattered across Mrs. Fish's tank.


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## BettaSplendid

Mrs. Fish is one tough lady!


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## themamaj

Good information on snails. You are very knowledgeable. I noticed my nerite doesn't come out of shell much either nor does the trumpet snail. The mystery snail, on the other hand, well it is no mystery! You see way too much snail, especially when two are in a tank. Mine got separated lol.


----------



## Sadist

Here's Cornelius again. I think this is not the side with the black starting to grow or maybe the algae and rooibos messed up the coloring.

I managed to get a picture of both crayfish at the same time, one hanging in the floating plants, one exploring the extra filter.

Blackfur (my daughter decided that all of the otos are now named Blackfur) are mostly hiding. Yesterday, I was only able to count three. Today, I counted four. It's amazing how well they hide when I'm having plant problems and the tank looks so bare.


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## themamaj

Wow look at those crayfish! That is so cool seeing the one on floaters. Mine are not that brave to be out and about too much yet. Maybe as time goes on they will. 

Cornelius looks wonderful! I was going to ask you about him how he was doing so delighted to see picture today. Lovely color. So glad he is continuing to do well!


----------



## Sadist

When I fed Cornelius, a ghost shrimp was poised at the plant opening. I had to feed it first, and it was neat watching it eat the blood worm. I need a new stand for that tank; the el cheapo one that I picked out looks like it's having problems with the weight. Sigh. The window ledge isn't quite wide enough for it to stay safely, and I don't want it right up against the glass while it's so cold out. I did find a dead ghost shrimp right next to a molt a few days ago. I guess the java moss tangle isn't a good enough hiding spot for them to molt and not get cannibalized.

Mrs. Fish is her normal piggy self but has been nicer with the life flies. Less flaring at me. Stripey is active and all over the tank. 

Spiral the assassin snail is still not well but still doesn't have that dead stink. The pest snail is doing okay and really cleaning up that algae corner of the tank where sunlight hits. Sky is wiggly and friendly as ever in spite of his heating problems. I put an extra heater in, but I think the sponge filter is just not moving the water enough. I'll see how the extra heater fares over today.

The crayfish have settled in and both molted and are out and about most of the time I'm around. I've even had them charge me at the glass and rear up on their back legs. I'm wondering if it's a beg for food thing -- I've read about that behavior from hand-fed crayfish. They got blood worms today, too. Their tank smells funny, though, and I'm wondering if one of the otos died in a place I can't see. It doesn't smell like dead animal, just a super bitter smell like bad coffee or pesticides.


----------



## themamaj

Which tank are your crayfish in?


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## themamaj

Also found nice metal shelf at Target that holds 160 pounds per shelf. I think it was about $20. Kmart and Walmart have similar. Shelves adjustable


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Awh little Cornelious! He's growing up. *sad sigh* :lol: I bet he's going to be a pretty guy, how's the lyre tail coming in?

I looked into the snails. Ew, one look and I know I couldn't handle owning one. Nerites don't look as bad but assassin snails just creep me out. I admire anyone brave enough to have snails. :shock:

Oh, and snap! I have that exact breeders net. They are such handy little things right?  mine has become a little unsturdy but it's definitely still up to the task. I'm considering buying another one to keep spare.


----------



## Sadist

I had one of the plastic nails break on the breeder's net, then decided to sink the whole thing since some gammarus shrimp had started a colony on it.

What shelf is that? I bought a $20 shelf from walmart, but it's a plastic shelf with metal X legs. The legs on one side look like they're starting to buckle from the 2 gallon tank.

The crayfish are in the 10 gallon tank with the otos. I've read conflicting info on keeping them together.

The assassin snail does seem to have quite a weird soft bit. It has a huge straw thing that it sticks out when it's walking around. I like its shell, though.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

That's a shame, saying that, I do handle mine like it's a bomb that could go off at any second. Mine was so cheap though £1.99, so I guess I can't complain. Atleast the shrimp put it to good use though. 

That's the part I don't like about the assassin snails - that weird soft pole thing sticking out of its shell. The shell itself is a nice shape though


----------



## Sadist

I went to get some amano shrimp to help with the algae in the ghost shrimp/Cornelius tank. They only had one amano shrimp, and there were 0 people available to catch it. There were some platy fry in the platy tank, which were adorable. I moved on when no one could help. The other store only caries ghost shrimp, and they were all out today. I have no choice but to buy colorful shrimp from Aquatic Arts when they're open to ship again ;-)


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## AccaliaJay

I have no clue if you need a male or female. I got the nerites to fight my brown algae. But I have noticed that eggs never showed up until I removed my guppies


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## Sadist

News!! I didn't expect this so soon.


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## Sadist

The female was out and about at feeding time, ate a bloodworm, and now she's disappeared. The male keeps coming over and begging for food, but the bloodworm I dropped near him... well I got distracted and missed where it went. He'll have to find it.


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## Sadist

Sky flared at me for the first time. He didn't stick his beard out, just his gills. So cute. I wish I had the camera out for it!


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Wow that's exciting. 
Lol! I've done that with a pleco wafer, I dropped it in and got distracted and lost where it went. :,)


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## Sadist

One of the algae wafers has completely disappeared. I'm not sure if the otos were super hungry or if one of the crayfish brought it into a cave. The female is mostly staying in the cave today. She did show me her belly for a second to beg for food, and she seems to have more eggs than last night! I can't wait for baby crayfish! I may not be able to get more shrimp if they breed too quickly. It should be a couple months or so (according to the internet) before the babies leave the mommy.

edit: I found the wafer. Tigress pulled it into her hide with her! I finally decided to name them Tiger and Tigress. Tigress is slightly larger than Tiger, and her stripes are less contrasting. Since they're both striped, it was really hard for me to tell them apart or name them!


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## themamaj

How lucky to have crays on the way!


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## BettaSplendid

Oh my! Congratulations! What are you going to do with them all?! I am kinda scared for mine to have babies, LOL, where will I put them..?


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Wow! What will you do with them all?


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## Sadist

I expect a lot will get eaten but that mature ones can be added to the other tanks or sold.

Spiral the assassin snail has finally moved. I think I see its foot out but not the tube. I'm thinking that Sky might have eaten it off or something. The little hitchhiker snail still seems to be doing great. It's eaten most of the full-sun algae corner and is on a plant, now. I hope it doesn't eat plants.

I didn't do a big enough midweek water change on Mrs. Fish's tank, and Stripey was having nothing to do with the water today. I moved her to the guppy/shrimp tank to work on some of the extra algae in there since I didn't get the amano shrimp to help out. Hopefully, the shrimp will leave her alone. There's plenty of food to go around since the guppy's crushed pellets sink right away. The salvinia in there is so healthy, I feel bad moving it to other tanks. It's the only tank where they've made baby plants and have nice roots. The surface was getting over crowded, though, so off to the tanks which have less light or too much filter!

I need to build a floating plant coral for my 10 gallon. With that strong current for the otos, it pushes all the salvinia into the crypts, where it gets stuck and has to be combed out. I've got a couple floating java ferns that are helping out, so I might be able to add salvinia back to it (I moved a bunch to another tank because the current would just pull it into the waterfall over and over until all of it was in the crypts).


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## BettaSplendid

That is what I would do too, with crayfish babies. I know my son would love to have some in his tank with Stormy. 

Also, I am interested in hearing more about your floating plant corral ideas. I desperately need a few of those!!


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## Sadist

I have some things that were sold to me as java fern and look a lot like wisteria pictures online. The leaves go from round to fern shaped, and when that happens, the pieces often fall off with rootlets and make a new plant. Anyways, the stem kept rotting where I planted it, so I gave up and floated it. The salvinia sits on top of it, and the weight of the larger plant can sort of keep the whole thing in the corner. Anywhere that plants reach the surface, the wisteria get caught on the leaves and mostly stay put for me, too. I'm not sure if this is a permanent fix or not. Time will tell if everything stays healthy that way.

Tigress is super aggressive mamma right now, but sometimes some of the eggs look dark to me and some look light. I'll have to find time to read about that. It could just be shadow, and she always swings herself to face me and brandish her pincers in my direction when I get close enough to see.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

I'm considering getting some wisteria or duckweed. I really like duckweed, it looks so pretty on the water surface.  I saw someone on eBay selling both really cheap, so I may get some. 

Wow, baby crayfish on the way.  hope everything goes as planned.


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## Sadist

I'm so impatient for the bank transfer to finish going through so I can order some more plants! With baby crayfish on the way and the idea of adding shrimp to that tank, I need to fill up those places where the plants aren't doing well. I also need some tall plants for the back -- the guppies were eating them all way back in the day, so they're all in other tanks now. I'm thinking a ton of water sprite, some java moss to add by some of the current hides, and finding those little shrimp tunnels like MammaJ recently found. I don't think I could have those in the betta tanks because my fish seem to try to fit through everything even if they don't fit. Even my otos have managed to wedge themselves into a veggie clip and die before (no more clips, just trying to wedge things into the gravel).


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## themamaj

Amazon has several different shrimp tubes to choose from if you can't find local. They had 3-6 tube options most around $11 or $12. My shelf you asked about is by Room Essentials at Target. Can't remember if ever told you that. Shelves hold up to 160 lbs. I have several small tanks on each shelf. I wouldn't hesitate to do a 5.5, not sure about a 10. 

So what kind of shrimp do you want to get? 

I laughed at your post on BettaSplendid site about hubby wanting to condense you to one tank. My hubby would totally agree...cough many tanks added to our house


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## Sadist

I was going to move the ghost shrimp over to the 10 gallon. I'm not sure what to do with Cornelius. The plan is to turn that tank back into a hospital/quarantine/grow algae on rocks tank. Right now it is Cornelius and ghost shrimp tank and the only place my salvinia is really thriving 

Eventually, I want to get blue shrimp to add to the crayfish tank. I guess I'll have to see how the ghost shrimp do in there, make sure the crayfish aren't aggressive towards shrimp. I just want more color in that tank!

Thanks for the shelf info. I mostly just need a place to put the 2.5 and still have it by the window. It would fit on my desk, but I'd have to put it right above where my computer is. I've had enough coffee accidents in that area that I don't really feel comfortable putting a tank there.

I had a really horrible dream last night. In the dream, I was in college, and I noticed my favorite teacher had a betta harem in a 2 gallon bowl. The teacher wasn't around, so most of the dream was looking for him and finding other betta harems all over the school and finding out it was a school pet policy.


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## Sadist

Yay, money transfered! Now, money spent on more plants, mostly tall ones with some more java moss. 

Stripey is really cleaning out that window tank. I'll give her another day there and then put her back in with Mrs. Fish.

Cornelius is begging for food constantly. I'll go visit him and Sky on the way out. Just now finished breakfast, and off to the grocery store! Hopefully, my full belly will let me not take home too many things on sale that we don't need this week.


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## themamaj

Good plan groceries on full stomach. Glad to hear guppy doing well! How long will it take for you plants to get in?


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## Sadist

I would expect them in by Wednesday-Friday, depending on when they box them up and send them out. Next Monday by the latest.

Apparently, I didn't eat enough sugar before I went to the store. I'm here eating cookies and drinking my second cup of coffee with marshmallows (not recommended, they seem to be making a mess of my cup without adding much flavor). Shredded cheese was on sale, so of course I cleared off the entire shelf of the kind we eat.

Spiral is still stuck in his shell but not smelly. I think the movement he made the other day may have been Sky rolling the shell around in the sand.


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## Sadist

I'm not seeing Room Essentials shelves like that on Amazon! I guess I'll have to go in person to Target and look for it. Maybe tomorrow; I want to laze around with my sugar and do some housework for the rest of my alone time today.


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## themamaj

Sounds like a plan. Baking cookies myself to energize me up for water changes haha.


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## Sadist

From www.basementmedicine.org 

Mr. Fingers:


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## AccaliaJay

Sad day today  Hadifer passed. I'm guessing old age. I've had him since around may. All the others that I got with him at that time died last year.. I'm surprised he lived this long.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Omg Mr fingers is hilarious!!! :,)

That's sad AccaliaJay ): I'm sorry for your loss.


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## AccaliaJay

Thanks I am truly surprised he lived this long so he probably lived a happy and good life if I managed to keep him alive this long hopefully the others will live as long as he did.


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## Sadist

:-( It breaks my heart when they go. Hang in there! Your other fishies need you.


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## Sadist

I ordered a new heater for Sky's tank. I think being stuck "on" burned out the old one. I'm trying a different brand; wish me luck! It should be here tonight. The back-up (not adjustable) heater I have in there is doing an okay job as long as I have a space heater in here to bring the temp up to 67.

Wow, I see a gammarus shrimp in the shrimp tank! I thought all the ones in there had died (a culture I bought that got left on the porch instead of ringing the bell to let me know I had a package). I'm excited to see it. I hope I didn't just clean all its buddies out of there -- I just cleaned a bunch of dead plant material from the bottom now that I can tell the algae from the poop/dead plant pieces. I probably just messed up their breeding place >.<

I see some snail egg looking things (maybe nematodes) on Sky's tank wall. The ones in Mrs. Fish's tank eventually didn't survive and are gone. The pest snail is still in there. I'm not sure if I should scrub the stuff off or leave it there to get eaten.


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## Sadist

I went shopping for some more terrarium plants and came home with a stripey one, a peacock fern, a tiny java fern, and a pack of natural-looking rocks. I made a cave with some of the rocks and one already in, planted the java fern next to one rock that's sort of heart shaped, and situated the terrarium plants near the filter. I also moved some of the crypts that won't stay rooted into Mrs. Fish's tank. I managed to get a water sprite arm right in front of the 10 gallon filter, and I'm hoping to move some salvinia on top of it. The move started the whole cycle of salvinia blown into the crypts and uprooted some more, but I'll deal with that later.

I don't have the email confirmation from Aquatic Arts on the plants I ordered yet. They might be waiting for warmer weather since I didn't check express shipping.

I'm thinking of getting some cholla wood sometime, but first I'm going to see how all the new plants coming in fit with everything. I still want to remove all the livestock from the 2.5 gallon tank.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Sounds like your having a plant party! I'm jealous. I have to wait until next week before I buy any more plants, I'm waiting to make a transaction, lol.
Hope everything goes well, and I wouldn't chance it with snail eggs. You'll have a plant eating army before you know it. ):


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## Sadist

That's what the assassin snail was for. I'll go ahead and scrub that wall tomorrow morning.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Poor assassin, he's not feeling well still I guess. Have you tried poking him? :,)


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## Sadist

I pick him up every two days to sniff for deadness. I don't like disturbing him like that, but I don't want a dead snail smelling up my tank, either. The crayfish mostly leave him alone except once the male climbed over the shell. I'm guessing they don't have much of a sense of smell or don't like to eat snails.


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## Nismo83

looks like you did some expansion.. =)...


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## Sadist

The guppy experiment didn't go well. There's something wrong with my tank, maybe too much flow for the otos was stressing out the guppies. I have 1 fry that survived and is doing well in the hospital tank with some shrimp and plants. I think he's fully grown but still coming into his coloring.

To have something colorful in the oto tank, I got some orange dwarf crayfish that are doing well. The female is carrying eggs and hiding a lot. I'm trying to fill that tank back up with plants.

I hope your pets and move to the new apartment are doing well!


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## Nismo83

A few of my new guppies from Thailand died. I am still in the midst of moving. The tank is running will be switching on the chiller tomorrow. Every if everything is good the macs will be going over pretty soon


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## Sadist

Spiral (the assassin snail) has stuck his foot out and is moving a tiny bit on the gravel. I looked really closely, and it does appear that the front part of his soft bits are completely gone :-( I hope it grows back and isn't essential to eating.


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## Sadist

Pictures. Spiral and the 10 gallon set up with yesterday's new plants added. I'm having a weather delay on the ordered plants.


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## Sadist

I've got to get a video of Sky eating. He tries to jump to the food and beaches himself in the plants, then wriggles over to the food.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Wow! Looking good. Looks like your plants are thriving! Glad to hear spiral may be getting better.


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## Sadist

Some of the crypts are coming unrooted. I'm not sure if I damaged them with the vacuum or if the filter flow is too high. The middle part used to be as thick as the left part.

My favorite tank is Sky's tank. All the boring filter/heater stuff is completely blocked off with plant parts.


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## Nismo83

They were uprooted cuz the soil is not deep enough. Usually need about 1inch minimum


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## Sadist

They've been rooted for 10 months, though. 

My plants have been shipped! I expect them Friday or Saturday.


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## themamaj

Spiral is so cute. Very nice tank! Yeah plants on the way. That's exciting. What did you order? Can you post the video?


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## Nismo83

10months is a long time and because of the low depth of soil the roots grow and sort of dislodge or uproot the plants.


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## Sadist

I didn't get a video, not sure if I can juggle a camera with all the other stuff in my hands while feeding. I wish I could!

I can see where some of my substrate is low, but it's over an inch in most of the plant places. I'm guessing I didn't get the gravel back in place when vacuuming on some of them. They only started losing leaves and coming out of the gravel (with no roots) when I moved the hob to the middle and upgraded it for more flow.


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## Sadist

I switched the filter places again, which left more room for floating plants. I moved more loose crypts to Mrs. Fish's tank and moved some of the salvinia from the 2.5 to the 10 gallon. I can't wait for my plants to come in. They should be between 6 and 8 inches tall and fill up some of those open spaces in the back for me. Plus, more java moss for crayfish fry to hide in when the time comes.

I tried to get a picture of Tigress, but she slipped back into her hide while the camera was focusing.

You can see some nice reflections of my messy desk in Mrs. Fish's tank here.


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## Sadist

And our sweet, pregnant Tigress peaked out long enough for a picture!


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## themamaj

Aww what a cute cray with nose out! What are floating plants that go above water? Really pretty. Mrs Fish sure is a beautiful blue.


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## trilobite

Oh Tigress is so cute!


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## Sadist

Those floater things were some stripey terrarium plant in the petsmart plant area. You know how they group together the aquarium and terrarium plants together and people come home not seeing the label? Those. I have some peacock fern pieces, too, but they weren't so nice when I opened the package. They're stick in part of the filter near the pothos pieces.

Anyway, I wedged the stripey things between the heater and the side of the filter and the lid edge to get them to stay up. I'm hoping they'll get some nice roots and be nitrate magnets.


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## themamaj

I ran in Petsmart tonight to get root tabs and may have seen those. That is neat to know you can float them. I have seen a number of people have plants that grow out of the top of the tanks. It looks very pretty but never have been brave enough to try it. I have looked at the peacock ferns before. Their leaves are really beautiful and intricate. I know they are not really aquatic so never bought them but sure are lovely.


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## Sadist

I started my terrarium plants at the top of the aquarium project with a plain pothos plant that was sickly and on sale at walmart. I cut all the fines off, took the plasticy back part of the lids from the tanks, and propped the leaves above the water. The vines are in the water. All those little brown nubs on the vines have turned into roots, and the most successful tank rarely gets above 5 nitrates even with a snail.

Spiral was upside down today. I rolled him over with the turkey baster for that tank. He pulled his foot back in when I did that, so I know he's still alive. I'm not sure if that type of snail can regrow eaten parts or not.

Cornelius is so dense. He's always looking the wrong way when I feed him, then comes over and begs for food. If I put my finger by the food, he moves away.

Thanks for the compliments on Mrs. Fish's coloring! It's why I got her; it's my favorite color. Sky has colored up to almost the same color.

I'd like to add that all the floating plants are doing much better since I moved the filter back to the right. Our floor isn't all the way level, so maybe that has something to do with it. There are salvinia right next to the waterfall that aren't being pushed under the surface, now. 

Spiral is sticking his foot and some little sensor parts out again, but he's also upside down again. He seems to be trying to right himself. I'm not sure if I should help him (which will scare him and make him go back inside) or leave him alone struggling to move. Poor thing. Tiger is patrolling the area, but he doesn't seem interested in messing with Spiral, just scouting for food. Oo, Spiral is upright and has his shell up! I hope he still has mouth parts to eat. I did sprinkle some food above his area of the tank.

Tigress has piled up some of the gravel at the entrance to her tube hide. Tiger walked by, and I see her claw sticking out at him! So funny.


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## themamaj

Crays are really funny aren't they? Mine has also baracaded herself in her tunnel. I think snails like Spiral are hard to figure sometimes. I have thought Spark was dead on a couple of occasions. He will disappear for awhile and then show up just laying there. All of a sudden he is upright and dives down in substrate again. I don't see his foot as often as I do the other snails. I knocked my nerite upside down the other day when cleaning tank. When he started coming out of shell to flip over his body really was striped like you said. That is so cool. They are such cute little snails. 

I might get ambitious and try some plants at top of tank. Yours looks so pretty and definitely an advantage to keep water perameters in check. 

Is Sky about as big as Mrs Fish now?


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## Sadist

Sky is still small. He's about the same size as the guppy fry but a bit stouter. He may be about the same size Mrs. Fish was when I bought her, like those tiny female betta at petsmart and petco.


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## Sadist

"Look, Ma! I'm king of the crypts!"

He's such a goof ball. I'm glad he climbs around on stuff instead of just sitting at the bottom.


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## themamaj

That is awesome!!!


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## Sadist

Sky today. The most noticeable growth I see is his fins. I'm sure his body is growing, too; I just don't notice it as much as his fin growth. The little red blur on his belly is one of his ventrals (he does put them down occasionally, just not usually when I have the camera trained on him). You can also see how much his plants are starting to fill in.


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## Sadist

The otos were all hanging out in the feeding area, so I broke up an algae wafer and dropped it in. One fell by Tigress's hide. Tiger went over and started eating a piece until Tigress's claws came out and showed him who's boss (my hiding area! I have babies!).


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## Sadist

My plants came in! My plants came in! They're floating to acclimate and since the kiddo's home today. I'm hoping I get time to put them in the tank some time during the weekend.

I love Aquatic Arts! They even have a heat pack for a box of plants in the winter.


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## themamaj

Wow cant believe they had heat pack too. Look fwd to pictures! !


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## Sadist

I see a fairly sizable gammarus shrimp colony thriving in the sunken breeder's net and java moss in there. I'm pretty excited about the live food it provides in there. I wonder if it helped to condition the crayfish. I wish I could get a colony going in the other tanks, too, but I know Mrs. Fish would probably keep hers trimmed down to 0 shrimp in her tank  She squishes herself into every crack and crevasse she can, including making her thermometer suction float away from the wall on a daily basis.


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## themamaj

Lol that sounds like Chance. I can't hardly keep a thermometer in place!


----------



## Sadist

I gave up having Mrs. Fish's thermometer attached. I just bob it around to where I can read it.

Okay, with the new plants! I added the water sprite (planted instead of floating this time) and java fern directly to their home. I moved the java moss from the 2.5 into the breeder net, only to open the new java moss and have it end up being too much for the 2.5 quarantine. I put half of it into the 2.5 and half into the breeder net. It's so dense that it actually floats! I'd read about people floating it, but I've only had loose bits that sit around or get pushed by the current a tiny bit. I did put a few loose bits by some rocks and in random areas of gravel. I'd like to cover the gravel in a small bed of java moss eventually.

The water sprite was everything I hoped for. I planted them next to the sponge filter to try to cover it up. Once they have settled, I expect them to spread out and cover all traces of ugly filter.

The java fern was much shorter than I expected. It was advertised as 6-8 inches tall, but was closer to 4. Hopefully, the spot I put it will help it grow and spread out and cover up the other filter intake from view.

I may or may not have gotten some frogbit hitchhikers. My only concern is with it getting pushed under water and rotting or overtaking the tank. I don't mind it being there, but maybe I will in the future if I ever get enough floating plants to share with the community.


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## themamaj

Looks great


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## Sadist

I need some cholla wood in there somewhere, then I can get shrimp! Gotta wait for warm weather >.<


----------



## Sadist

I had a horrible dream last night. I was doing a water change on a pond and left the siphon unattended briefly. When I got back, the pond was completely drained, and I could see 0 fish. I threw a few buckets of water in there and swam around. I found my fish (I think it may have been Violet, our first betta) and held him in my hand in the water. He twitched a little, so I held him close to the surface to help him get air. Eventually, I noticed the water was too cold and decided to float him in a warmer tank. When I got to the tank, my friend's cat was sitting in it, so I couldn't float the fish in there. I woke up before I found a solution.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol sounds a bit goofy. I have more baby fry. Question I got a breeders net for Christmas can I put them in there until their big enough to not be eaten? Or atleast until I decide what to do with my tank set ups? I mean there's maybe 5 so far. I also added my first ever heater. I'm a little worried about it but atleast it will be up to requirements now.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I need some cholla wood in there somewhere, then I can get shrimp! Gotta wait for warm weather >.<


cholla would look great too!


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I had a horrible dream last night. I was doing a water change on a pond and left the siphon unattended briefly. When I got back, the pond was completely drained, and I could see 0 fish. I threw a few buckets of water in there and swam around. I found my fish (I think it may have been Violet, our first betta) and held him in my hand in the water. He twitched a little, so I held him close to the surface to help him get air. Eventually, I noticed the water was too cold and decided to float him in a warmer tank. When I got to the tank, my friend's cat was sitting in it, so I couldn't float the fish in there. I woke up before I found a solution.


Gosh you have dreams like I do. Isn't it funny how we get something in the back of our mind and it plays out in our dream in such a strange way?


----------



## Sadist

It is!

Jay, I kept all of mine in a breeder's net. It made it much easier to feed them, too. I had the bottom of the breeder's net filled with loose java moss so they could feel secure (and eat micro stuff from it). It took them a few days to figure out that I was the food source, but they did great in there. I had 0 deaths in the net, and almost total death in the tank.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Kay I think there's seven still trying to catch them lol didn't miss it


----------



## AccaliaJay

There's 8 lol


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Everyone's fry doing okay?


----------



## Sadist

My one fry (Cornelius) is still alive and active. He's glass surfing, which I read is a sign of stress. I'm not sure that getting more guppy friends for him is an option since the store ones seem to always come in full of parasites.

I hope 8 was your total number, Jay! I thought my small spawn felt easy to manage in the breeder net with some loose java moss. They ate crushed pellets and Omega One frozen Community formula (fish, vitamins, and garlic) and grew really well. When they got bigger, I fed them frozen mysis shrimp heads and tiny pieces of frozen blood worm, too.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Yeah there is eight. Lol. And can't you quarentine new ones?


----------



## Sadist

My last fry is in the quarantine tank right now. I lost 14 fry when I moved them from that tank to the main tank. I can only think that the otos ate all the algae, and they didn't have enough snacks between meals. I also have a lot of flow in there, and they might have just died of stress. 

I have a possible taker to donate him to; otherwise, I'm just going to enjoy him for as long as he lasts. The two bettas I have in 5.5 gallon tanks don't tolerate fish in their territories, so he's stuck in the 2.5.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Ah. Hopefully if he goes to a new home he will live a long happy life


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## AccaliaJay

Ah maybe that 13 guppy fry x.x


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist, your plants look fantastic! What a nice sized portion of java moss. I am impressed they included a heat pack. I think that really says something about their company, you know?

I am going to have to look up these little gammarus shrimp things. I do not know a thing about them. If you had a culture of them in Mrs. Fish's tank inside something that she could NOT squeeze into, would a few venture out now and then to feed her? I would think this would be highly entertaining to a betta. If you think this is possible then I would be interested in devising some little container to put them in with my bettas.

And I absolutely love hearing about grouchy pregnant Tigress and her threatening claws.


----------



## Sadist

I think if I put something in Mrs. Fish's tank that she couldn't fit into, she would hurt herself trying to get in there (especially if there were things moving inside). There's a chance that if I move some of the java moss into her tank, some might survive and keep their colony on it, giving her some live food. She loves chasing them when I manage to catch one and put it in her tank.

Tigress actually banged Tiger up a bit and sent him packing! I don't think any injuries happened, but it looked like a pair of boxers in a ring. I got to see her tail briefly this morning as she stuck it out and fanned the eggs. I can't wait to see babies! 

As I understand it, gammarus shrimp are similar to mysis and brine shrimp but live in fresh water. They're really small. I did see one eating (well, sitting on) a pellet I dropped in for the crayfish.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

how many guppies do you have in total? I’m wiht you on getting them form petco/smart. They never seem to last long but for my one boy. He’s glass surfing, too.


----------



## Sadist

Just the one fry left. He's all that survived.

I really had a feeling that I should have stopped at the fish area in Walmart today on the way to the pharmacy >.< The daughter was spazzing after swim class, so we were in and out and home for dinner. Now, school is closed tomorrow because there might be winter weather during the weather. I won't be able to go do it until Thursday! It's probably a good thing. Anyone saved from walmart would have to float in the cup with lots of water changes until I could rehome him.


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## themamaj

Your schools already closed? Lol that's TN for us. My boss was so wound up about weather she was making vision screening dates and tour dates for next week. Counties around me are already closed but I doubt we will know till 11pm if snow starts before then or maybe am. Roads already heavy salted. I "braved' the Walmart tonight for the essentials...milk, bread and brownie mix! Our bettas tonight looked fairly good. They had a really pretty copper and burgandy red crowntail and a veil tail with similar colorings to Chance. I was pleased that waters looked pretty good. The guppy tank not so much with several dead ones. Does your Walmart carry bettas? Not all do around here. Are you considering a rescue??? 

How long has Tigress been carrying eggs that you have noticed? Are they underneath like a shrimp would carry them? Oh that would be so neat to see babies! Maybe you can get so pictures when she has them. I keep trying to get a good look at bellies of mine but they hide in tunnels a lot. I did see one out and about this am. He/she has really grown! Took a nip at Max's nose when he got too close. I laughed my head off telling him it served him right for putting his nose where it didn't belong! Unfortunately, he is kin to Nikolai in that he is not a good learner. He is still creeping around bottom of the tank. Maybe little cray needs to pinch a little harder next time haha.


----------



## themamaj

Ok spoke too soon. They just closed Knox Co. Daughter will be thrilled! We live a bit north of the city so maybe we will get to see some good snow. I'm ready! Do you live in the valley or up on the mountain?


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> I think if I put something in Mrs. Fish's tank that she couldn't fit into, she would hurt herself trying to get in there (especially if there were things moving inside). There's a chance that if I move some of the java moss into her tank, some might survive and keep their colony on it, giving her some live food. She loves chasing them when I manage to catch one and put it in her tank.
> 
> Tigress actually banged Tiger up a bit and sent him packing! I don't think any injuries happened, but it looked like a pair of boxers in a ring. I got to see her tail briefly this morning as she stuck it out and fanned the eggs. I can't wait to see babies!
> 
> As I understand it, gammarus shrimp are similar to mysis and brine shrimp but live in fresh water. They're really small. I did see one eating (well, sitting on) a pellet I dropped in for the crayfish.


Be good now, Mizzus Tigress, or we'z goina find ya some teeny tiny rubber bands fo yo clawz.

What about the breeder net you have turned upside down so the opening is on the gravel?


----------



## themamaj

BettaSplendid said:


> Be good now, Mizzus Tigress, or we'z goina find ya some teeny tiny rubber bands fo yo clawz.
> 
> What about the breeder net you have turned upside down so the opening is on the gravel?


LOL I just had the vision of little crays like the lobsters at Food City


----------



## Sadist

BettaSplendid said:


> Be good now, Mizzus Tigress, or we'z goina find ya some teeny tiny rubber bands fo yo clawz.
> 
> What about the breeder net you have turned upside down so the opening is on the gravel?


I actually turned it sideways, so the opening is facing the viewer. It's filled with as much java moss as I can get in there, though the current seems to be making it creep outwards a bit.

I don't remember when I first saw Tigress's eggs. I read online that they carry them for 6 weeks and then carry the babies around, too. They are under her tail like shrimp. She spends all the time in the hide except to creep out and grab some food and bring it into the hide.

We don't have salt out, so it's a good thing the schools are closed. We don't have the equipment to keep the roads salted all the time. The hubby said there was black ice, and all the bridges had ice on them. The road to work was filled with wrecks and tracks of wrecks that were removed. We don't want buses out in that sort of driving conditions, and we especially don't want children standing at their bus stop and have a car slip in some nearby ice and run into them.

Yes, I really felt like doing a rescue, but I think I'm not really qualified to do one. The hubby still thinks I should be able to put all of my animals into the bigger aquarium and set it to whatever temperature I want, and any fish who kill each other don't deserve to live. He's pretty disgusted that they eat their own fry. There's no way I could run a rescue operation, and I'm really not sure I could ever talk a store into giving me a free fish because it's on death's door.

Our walmart does have bettas, oscars, cories, ghost shrimp, tetras, and chinese algae fish. There's actually a guy who takes care of them, and I've seen things improve a little bit since he first started. When he first started, there were mass tank deaths (everything in the tank died, saw him scooping out the bodies), etc. Before he started, I actually saw bettas in with the tetras. Some bleeding heart felt sorry for them in the cups or something, or someone wanted to see them fight. One was only recognizable as a betta by body shape, there were 0 fins. One was beat up pretty bad, and another had slight fin damage. 

I gotta get -- the kiddo's home, and I shouldn't have stayed on the computer so long!


----------



## themamaj

Stay safe today. We have about 3 inches of snow here and still snowing at pretty good rate. My daughter is chomping at the bit to get out sledding. She has a friend coming over later this afternoon from the neighborhood so hopefully I can get some cute pictures. 

I never really set out to do rescues, but my fish Crimson I had developed fin rot shortly after I got him. It probably was a result of sitting in his cup in the store too long. So I began reading and researching and asking every question I could to find out how to help him. It worked. His fins healed nicely. Then a couple of fish later I started observing conditions of fish at different stores. I thought hmm if I could help Crimson, maybe I could help another fish. So I tried starting with minor issues. All of a sudden I started seeing fish transform into beautiful bettas I never could have imagined. It gave me a little confidence so I tried a little more expanding into different illnesses. Chance was my first true, death's door, not sure will make it through the night betta. I already had a number of fish by that point and was not looking for another. When I saw Chance and heard his story I was motivated into action. Now, many fish later, I am still at it. Sadist you are a great fish keeper and you are very knowledgeable! If you decide one day to try a rescue, you would do a great job.

Glad to hear things at your Walmart is improving. It is unreal how people want to put bettas together just to watch them fight and tear each other apart. I find it all the time here. People will put them in the same cup and just stand there and watch. Unbelievable with no respect for anything. 

I hope everyone stays safe on roads down there. Maybe you will get some of this snow as well. I bet your daughter would love playing in it. Have a great day and keep us posted on Tigress.


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## Sadist

Thanks so much for your kind words!

It did snow here, but the ground is too warm for it to stick. Our drive way looks like it was dusted with powdered sugar and also has a puddle of water in the middle. No salt on the roads still, so we're watching Frozen. Well, she's watching Frozen, and I was playing games on the ipad with no volume. I got bored and wandered over here again, and now she's calling!


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## AccaliaJay

You know I find it funny where you guys live schools close pretty easily. We have 12-18 inches up here and not many schools are closed


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## ShadeSlayer

no snow here, so no school closed. X.X ARe you getting new guppies soon?


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## AccaliaJay

Who? Me or Sadist?


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## ShadeSlayer

both. lol How many do you still have?


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## BettaSplendid

AccaliaJay said:


> You know I find it funny where you guys live schools close pretty easily. We have 12-18 inches up here and not many schools are closed


Well it is because in areas that do not get snow often we do not have the equipment to deal with it. Plus it can easily melt and refreeze and ice is worse than snow. People have little experience driving in it. Also kids who do not see snow often want to stay home and play in it when they have the chance to. So, lots of reasons to close schools.


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## AccaliaJay

I can understand ice 

XD around 15 bigger guppies and 13-15 newborns their hard to count cause their in a breeders net. So no more guppies for me cause my 10 gallon which has them all plus two Nerites and 3 ghost shrimp.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> You know I find it funny where you guys live schools close pretty easily. We have 12-18 inches up here and not many schools are closed


Haha yes even the forecast of snow about closes them here. I love the snow. It doesn't bother me at all to get out in it, but it is nice to get a day off because of it


----------



## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> You know I find it funny where you guys live schools close pretty easily. We have 12-18 inches up here and not many schools are closed


We don't have the equipment to keep the roads salted all winter. Even the major roads into the city had wrecks all over it yesterday. The hubby said there was black ice, and all the bridges were iced over. He saw 5 wrecks and the marks of a bunch that had already been cleaned when he went to work yesterday. Add school buses to that, especially slipping on a patch of ice by a bus stop and smearing kids across the road, and that's how it would be if schools were open.

They closed schools today, too, because the outlaying roads hadn't been salted and were still frozen from being in the shade. It sucks, and I think it's funny, too. My dad's from Montana, so you can imagine the laughs we have as a family about closing down the state because of a snow flurry in the atmosphere that melts before it reaches the ground.



BettaSplendid said:


> Well it is because in areas that do not get snow often we do not have the equipment to deal with it. Plus it can easily melt and refreeze and ice is worse than snow. People have little experience driving in it. Also kids who do not see snow often want to stay home and play in it when they have the chance to. So, lots of reasons to close schools.


It sleeted and snowed for a few minutes here, but that's it. We mostly had black ice and iced over bridges. The kiddo and I stayed home and watched movies and counted the money in her piggy bank. She has enough, we were thinking of teaching her how to spend it wisely 

I was thinking about getting two buddies for Cornelius. The problem is that I'm not sure what was killing them in the 10 gallon. Cornelius is getting too big for the 2 gallon as it is; I don't want to add more and mess up the nitrates and kill everything in there. I'm also hesitant about moving him to the 10 gallon because everything guppy related doesn't do well in there. Plus, Tiger might decide to attack him when he's resting at night. I've read conflicting information about it, and I don't want to risk it. The bettas have both shown that they don't tolerate tank mates unless the tank mate is too big and scary to attack.

Typing of bettas, I remeasured Sky, and his body is almost twice as big as when I got him! It didn't seem like he had grown to me; only his fins looked bigger to the eye. He still looks tiny compared to Mrs. Fish, and even Cornelius looks like his total length (body plus fins) is close to Sky's. I'm still on the edge about his gender. His caudal and anal fins definetly look male to me, but his ventrals look short to me. His belly bulge doesn't go down all the way any more, though his poop is normal (Mrs. Fish holds her ovaries really low next to her belly). He has a giant ovithingy. He won't stay still long enough to get a good picture to have help identifying him right now! I tried to get him to flare and see his beard, but instead he posed sideways next to the mirror. If I can juggle the camera and mirror without breaking stuff, I'll try to get a picture that way.

edit: the camera ran out of battery, so I'm not sure if I got a good picture or not until it's charged up. It won't let me move pictures to the computer while it's plugged in or out of battery. I know 90% of the pictures were blurry; he just was too excited to see me (and curious about the camera) to stay still.


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## themamaj

I think guppies are the hardest fish to get a clear photo of. They are so beautiful but move at such a fast rate hard to catch them. I typically tried when feeding so they would be at least at one general point in the tank. Have a fun day at home today with daughter.


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## Sadist

I'm trying. I like that she's a little more independent than she used to be, but it seems like I get just enough time to get interested in something before she wants to play together again. She wants to sort her money again today.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I can understand ice
> 
> XD around 15 bigger guppies and 13-15 newborns their hard to count cause their in a breeders net. So no more guppies for me cause my 10 gallon which has them all plus two Nerites and 3 ghost shrimp.


Cool! Did you get a ten for Christmas? How many are males?


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> I'm trying. I like that she's a little more independent than she used to be, but it seems like I get just enough time to get interested in something before she wants to play together again. She wants to sort her money again today.


aww! My littlest cousin's do that all the time.


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## Sadist

The best of Sky today. None of the pictures turned out well. 

And a new guy from Walmart. Even though they were all crowntails and veil tails, whoever supplies them seems to be mixing them up with halfmoon colors. I saw blue marbles, blue butterflies, black butterfly, and an orange grizzle. This guy has a magenta body with pineapple scales and orange fins. I wrapped him in my jacket before taking outside, and he didn't seem to like that. I could feel him banging into his cup. The picture doesn't do his colors justice, but I don't want to stress him out taking a bunch right now.


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## ShadeSlayer

is that duckweed?


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## BettaSplendid

That betta sure lucked out that YOU picked him! Was he in dire need of being reacued or just irrisistable? He is a pretty color.


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## ShadeSlayer

agreed, beautiful! Looks like a peach.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

He's stunning! Sounds like a feisty chap, quite a character! 

@Shade - that indeed does look like duckweed - Salvinia Natans. May be wrong though.


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## Sadist

He doesn't appear ill if that's what you're asking. He has some fused rays that I'm not sure if I can do anything about. The black butterfly crowntail was just gorgeous. Even his pecks were butterfly. Almost all of the full sized crowntails had ruined anal fins, though. All of the rays were bent and curled where they just sat at the bottom of the cups. The cups themselves were at least almost clean looking. No piles of feces and food at the bottom, but the water was a tiny bit cloudy. The lids have instructions that almost come close to working. I'll have to post them tomorrow.

I would have brought home one of the crowntails, but I'd eventually like to rehome them. I think it would be difficult to rehome someone like that :-(

I've dubbed this guy "Tequila Sunrise," though my daughter thinks he's a girl and named him Meladia. He seemed oblivious about the frozen bloodworms, turning before it got in his vision and swimming away (much like Cornelius, too busy looking at me and begging for food to see the food). I left this bloodworm in for the ghost shrimp, but tomorrow I'll have the yucky job of trying to fish one out of the java moss.

I moved the guppy to the 10 gallon (after my giant speech that I wasn't going to), and I think I'll pick up some boyfriends for him to see if that cuts down on the glass surfing.

Those plants are mostly salvinia minima that I bought from someone on the forum. I think my java moss on the bottom is infected with duck weed, though. I see some sprouts of something new that came out of the java moss.


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## Sadist

The salvinia has those little cat tongue hair things on the top. I've never had duckweed, but I'm sure salvinia is the only one that has the hairs to make it easier to work with hob filters.

Well, Tequila Sunrise ate a defrosted blood worm today! Aside from his malnutrition, he seems to not be a strong swimmer. His tail keeps dragging down. I'm hoping the warm water, rooibos, and better diet will make his body strong enough to support his tail. I suppose he didn't get much exercise in the walmart cup, too. I felt really bad that I couldn't take them all home. The normal blue veil tails actually look a bit healthy, but they had those unusually colored crowntails! I didn't want to bring home a permanently damaged/special needs fish because I want to rehome him eventually. Right now, I have him with rooibos and paraguard in the tank I could probably do 0 water changes on if we only did water changes because of nitrate levels. Those are the most healthy salvinia in the house! 

Well, my clothes and socks are done in the dryer after walking the kiddo to school. I'm going to see what guppies they have. I'll acclimate them really carefully and dose with paraguard right off.


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## themamaj

I love your new boy! He looks like he will have really beautiful colors. He is a very lucky guy! Keep us posted with pictures.

Good luck on the guppy hunt. I hope you are able to find some very healthy, beautiful ones. Can't wait to hear.


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## Sadist

I swear I might have a 20 long follow me home with the tank sales >.< The problem is finding a good stand and a place to put it. The best place in the kitchen is the dining area right behind my daughter's chair, which as you know is a bad place to put things. I still need to go to target and find that shelf for the 2.5 before this stand buckles. I guess I'll do that first.


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## Sadist

I brought home 2 boys from Petsmart. There were only 2 at Petco, and one had major fin rot. I don't have meds for fin rot, so I went to the next place. One is a silvery boy with a few spots on his tail, and another is a maroon guy with speckles on his back. I really wanted the black one with purple iridescence on his back, too. Little Cornelius is checking them out through the bag right now. I hope they don't think he's a girl with his markings starting out right there! I did see a female in the male tank at petsmart, and the girl moved her right away.


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## Sadist

Cornelius (the smallest), Elsa (with blue, pink, and a few spots), and Santana (black and red). I love seeing Cornelius with someone to interact with!

Tequila is still really friendly with me, but he's having problems holding his backside up. His body seems kind of narrow (top to bottom) and weak, and I hope I can get him strengthened up. He's staying in the little tank until he can swim better.


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## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> The salvinia has those little cat tongue hair things on the top. I've never had duckweed, but I'm sure salvinia is the only one that has the hairs to make it easier to work with hob filters.
> 
> Well, Tequila Sunrise ate a defrosted blood worm today! Aside from his malnutrition, he seems to not be a strong swimmer. His tail keeps dragging down. I'm hoping the warm water, rooibos, and better diet will make his body strong enough to support his tail. I suppose he didn't get much exercise in the walmart cup, too. I felt really bad that I couldn't take them all home. The normal blue veil tails actually look a bit healthy, but they had those unusually colored crowntails! I didn't want to bring home a permanently damaged/special needs fish because I want to rehome him eventually. Right now, I have him with rooibos and paraguard in the tank I could probably do 0 water changes on if we only did water changes because of nitrate levels. Those are the most healthy salvinia in the house!
> 
> Well, my clothes and socks are done in the dryer after walking the kiddo to school. I'm going to see what guppies they have. I'll acclimate them really carefully and dose with paraguard right off.


I hear you with the glass surfing. My boy does it constantly. I hope the friends help him, too.


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## Sadist

I don't see any glass surfing now, just body language between the 3 males. It did look like Cornelius was trying to mate with Elsa, though.


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## ShadeSlayer

I take it Elsa’s the blue one? I’m also guessing your daughter named it?


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## BettaSplendid

Haha, I love Elsa! Perfect colors for that name. And the fact that it is a boy fish makes it even better. Remember, my male guppies Pixie and Ballerina? They are just so *pretty*. Giggle. So pretty they get girly names.


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## ShadeSlayer

me, too. Makes it so much better.


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## Sadist

I couldn't resist naming him Elsa. The daughter was thrilled when she got home from school and saw we have a fish named Elsa.

Tequila Sunrise is doing better now. I got another bloodworm or two down him. I fed him a live shrimp. He pecked it, then hid. Now, he's energetically hunting for it. I'm not sure if he managed to eat it or not, but he's at least more lively. I'm hoping another day or two with daily food and warm water will keep working!


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## ShadeSlayer

glad he’s perking up. I love his colors. Seems like a sweet fish.


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## Sadist

He seems a little afraid of good food. I wonder what they were feeding him. Every bloodworm gets backed away from before he approaches and daintily eats it. I really wish I could have gotten him directly from the breeder (and all those other gorgeously colored guys that are crippled from the cup).


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## Sadist

The guppies all rushed forward at feeding time to get their tiny bloodworm pieces. Mrs. Fish is her normal piggy self. Sky is his normal leap-up-and-beach-himself-on-a-plant enthusiastic eater. Tequila Sunrise knew what eating was today, too. He's much more active, and he ate 3 bloodworms right away and begged for more. His tummy was starting to poke out, so I stopped there. 

Bad news is Tigress was out and about with no eggs. From what I read (online, so not the best source), they carry around eggs for 6-8 weeks, and then carry around hatched babies for a bit. I'm not sure if they died because she was inexperienced, or she abandoned them because she wasn't getting enough to eat. A bloodworm fell right on her, and she attacked it right away. Nom nom.

Santana (black and red guppy) does have some violet iridescence that's really pretty. He's not always with the group, so I'm a bit worried about him. I'm going to keep dosing the tank with paraguard for another few days (and Tequila's tank, too).


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## Sadist

Tequila Sunrise. His color is getting more vibrant, and he's much more energetic and active! He can hold his fins up without trouble. He does have a tiny 1/2 pea-sized bulge near his peduncle. I'm not sure if it's the end of his swim bladder or a tumor or what. 

The guppies are all three playing together. It's really cute. I think I'll stick with 3 since they're doing well together. I don't want to go back to vacuuming the 10 gallon 2ce a week just to keep up with guppy and oto poops together.

Well, our Saturday plans are blown because they've hired someone who lives on the icey mountain to ice the roads were were going to be on. The mountain roads will be closed long after Grandma's neighborhood has melted.


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## ShadeSlayer

glad the fishes are doing well. He’s so pretty! I love the vibrant colors! I hope the bump isn’t anything too serious. Sorry about your plans! Over here in the northwest its dumping rain. Literally.


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## Sadist

Here in the South, they just don't have the resources for frozen roads. Apparently, they just finished salting one of the 2 main roads (besides the freeway). Any side roads and neighborhoods will just hope they got groceries ahead of time. 

And I meant to write the person who salts the roads in the grandma's neighborhood lives on the icey mountain. I'm so tired.


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## ShadeSlayer

S’okay. I’m exhausted from having three cats use my bedroom as a wrestling ring last night. Full moon messing with everyone, I guess.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Ah that's not good ): Britain hasn't been too bad lately. The ground was perfect for fast flatwork with my horses - it had rained recently. So I was quite pleased with English weather c:

Tequila Sunrise is soo pretty! I'm not really into VTs (she says, and has 5 :lol but I love his soft peachy colour! Stunning.


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## Sadist

I'm not really into male veil tails, either. His fins were so heavy that he couldn't hold them up after being cooped up in the tiny cup. Now, he seems to be swimming really well! I think he needs a bigger tank already, but the flow in the 10 gallon might be too much for him.

Well, after water change today, Tigress managed to uproot one of the water sprite. I saw her trying to climb it, then 10 minutes later, I saw the plant out of place. I usually float mine, but I got these to fill a vertical spot in the back and spread out to hide the filter eventually.

I noticed in Sky's tank, one of the water wisteria has made itself into a terrarium style plant! With all the pothos vines near where it was floating, it was able to lift itself into an almost vertical position, and now it's up there with the pothos leaves. I'm really pleased with how his tank is heading.

I saw a baby snail in the 10 gallon. I've read that crayfish can hunt snails, so I'm not terribly worried about getting too many. Plus, with all the clean up crews, food doesn't stick around long enough for the snails to eat in there. I saw Sky's snail today, but it's gone again. It had gotten really big. Spiral the assassin snail has disappeared. It looks sort of like one of the crayfish buried him in the gravel, but maybe he did it himself.

Tiger has molted again and seems to be almost as big as Tigress, now! They look like little tanks, now. They've both found a piece of wafer and are hogging their little pieces to themselves. I've been breaking the wafers apart so the otos can still have their share after the crayfish find and drag some away. The guppies in there still seem healthy, too. 

Tequila was ferocious with his food today and seems like a normal betta already! He's swimming all over. His fins are deepening in color, and he's kept his pink iridescence on his body. Haha, I just saw him playing peek-a-boo in the java moss. I wonder if he's hunting gammarus shrimp or the ghost shrimp.


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## themamaj

Have loved reading all the updates! Tequilla is very pretty and seems to be coloring up nicely and very active. Oh Elsa is gorgeous! I really like that blue coloring. Others are very nice too and surprised how Cornelius has grown. Sorry about cray babies. Hopefully they will have another set soon.


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## Sadist

I realized that I didn't do water changes at all with school out last week. That may have made her lose the babies, though I still wonder if she just wasn't coming out to forage for food enough or oxygenating the eggs enough.

Spiral has reappeared! His parts and pieces seem to be growing back, too! I hope he finds the baby snails and gets his share of the food in there. Also, another guppy blur for your enjoyment. Tequila is moving around too much to get a picture, and sky is in the plants too much (or wiggling too much when he comes out) to really get pictures of.


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## themamaj

Look at Spiral! Love that picture.


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## BettaSplendid

Yeah! Spiral looks great.  Glad he is on the mend.

I laughed out loud about the "guppy blur" picture. They are pretty.

Tequila sounds wonderful! Aren't you getting attached to him though? I am not sure I could rescue and rehome... I know it was hard for MamaJ to let Snowball go...he was one of my favorites of hers along with Titus and Avalanche. But I understand he went to an awesome home so that helps!! Are you planning on putting Tequila on the marketplace here or locally rehoming him?


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## ShadeSlayer

hehehehehe guppies don’t do this thing called ‘pictures'


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## Sadist

I was going to put him on the marketplace. I don't know any local people who know fish and would take care of him. I am growing fond of him, but the hubby is wanting to downsize the fish keeping. I had to set up a space heater because Sky's tank with 3 heaters couldn't keep the water warm enough (sponge filter isn't circulating the water enough). He looks like he could use a larger tank now that he isn't having trouble swimming, too.


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## Sadist

Walmart had an orange bi-color crowntail and 2 marble/butterfly crowntails! I'm so amazed. I wish I could bring them all home. I got the butterfly ones to flare a little at my finger, too.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

About Tequila's bulge, I think it could be the end of his swim bladder. Orion's has always protuded a bit ever since I had him. I've attached an image of where Ori's "bulge" is (drawn on).
Hope the image is okay. Took it just before he fell ill with ich. He's not looking too good. I'm praying he pulls through. He's my absolute baby ):


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## Sadist

That's the same area as Tequila, thanks for the info! I hope your boy pulls through.

Well, we've started down the road of guppy deaths again. Elsa was swimming funny yesterday, but I wasn't able to do anything about it. Today, he's disappeared. The other two are fine except for some glass surfing. I felt so bad for Cornelius being all alone; I guess I shouldn't have tried to bring more home or at least not brought home Tequila so I'd have a good quarantine area.

Everyone else that I can see were nice big piggies as normal this morning. I'm not sure where Spiral went, but I hope he's still doing well. Hopefully, he caught the snail that came in on the water sprite.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh dear.


So sorry about Elsa. 

I am getting a TAD BIT IRRITATED here with guppies- or should I say with the breeders. Am I wrong or is it their fault for selling sick fish?! WHY, HOW can guppies have SO MANY FREAKIN PROBLEMS?! It isn't right! Shouldn't there be more effort to only supply healthy fish, shouldn't that be top priority?! Who cares how beautiful the fish is if it is sick and dies?! And then the new owner is HEART BROKEN their fish died. Or has to spend $$$ on medicines that probably won't work anyways.


RRRRRRAAAAAARRRRRRRG!!!


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## themamaj

Oh no! I am so sorry Sadist! Oh that is so frustrating that guppies seem to be more fragile to illness. I think that is one reason I have been hesitant to try again. It tore me up to loose all of mine even though I knew their health was compromised from start. I hope others hang on.


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## BettaBoy11

Hi! I'm subscribing. 
What's the minimum tank size for guppies? What size are your tanks?


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## AccaliaJay

I have to good of luck with guppies. I don't understand how. People need to take my luck. Spring needs to come fast so I can rehome the fry when I can tell their genders.


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## BettaSplendid

Yes Accalia! I think home raised fry are the way to go. Whatever the breeders are doing...well I do not know. 

Will you be selling/ shipping yours? I think the ones I have now are probably little carriers of something, but are immune/ resistant. Probably would wipe out any I got from you. The little disease ridden bugs. LOL. It isn't funny, really. Just...argh!


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## AccaliaJay

I have no idea if I would try shipping. Mine are pretty normal looking compared to the one guppies that have like spots and stuff. People keep telling me my males are tuxedo. I might be willing to look into it. But not until spring XD shipping in winter would be asking for disaster. Lol


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## BettaSplendid

Plain and alive is better'n purty and diseased...or dead.


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## AccaliaJay

XD iv never had the fancier ones. I don't think the pet stores around me have them. Unless they do and they just sell out. I havnt bought anymore guppies since September cause the breeding is going good though and having 15 adult/juvenile and like. 13-15 newborns in a ten gallon is making me wonder if I should set up my 5 gallon fry tank again.


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## Sadist

I have a 10 gallon tank for the adult guppies. I'm guessing they have a disease or parasite problem at the pet stores. I ran paraguard in my tank when I brought them in, but it doesn't seem to be fixing whatever the problem is. And yes, my one fry that I raised from birth is the one who's survived the longest. I've read they can be really sensitive to water changes and new water should be dripped in. I'm having problems wrapping my head around the fact that they do fine switching from store water to mine but can't handle a 25% water change. They do seem to pick at the vegetation a lot, so I've been trying to have blanched greens in there all week, too. I think the greens really clean out their digestive tract -- I often see the piece they ate (if I ripped one up for lunch) come out exactly the same color and shape as it went in. They poop a lot, so water changes can't be skipped.


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## AccaliaJay

My guppies arnt sensative to water changes. That's so strange how people have a lot of problems with their guppies and mine rarely die. The last one I lost was Hadifer my last of my first guppies ever. I got them in May and he died like two weeks ago. So he lived pretty long. And he was from my closests pet store. Which don't take very good care of their fish


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## Sadist

Today, I found a crayfish molt, both crayfish hunting through the plants, almost all of the water sprite uprooted (again), and a piece of Elsa, which I disposed of. I think it was a piece of Elsa. I wish I could have found him sooner. Everyone's behavior is pretty normal, except for Spiral who was upside down again. I tried to roll it over again to help him get his foot out. I think the crayfish are digging the sprite up in their enthusiasm to climb it and maybe leap out and assassinate a guppy. We shall see. Both guppies seem okay, and I'm wondering if I should continue the paraguard and get another one. I really wanted some blue color in the tank and was planning on getting blue shrimp some day.

Is 8 months really considered a long time to keep a guppy alive? I still consider that short.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I hear males normally live 7 months. I'm glad I beat that by one month lol but who knows maybe some have lived way longer. I wonder what the oldest guppy was.


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## AccaliaJay

Someone said they had one live for five years and another person said a year to 18 months was the normal age of death but they has two year old males. I don't know though. Nothing seems concrete. But I know quite a few people who can't keep them alive even though their doing things even righter than me.


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## BettaSplendid

7 months! I hope not! That is terrible. I get attached to my fish. 



I am still upset about losing Lemonade, my favorite guppy. I didn't even see his death coming. He swam around normally and then was dead the next time I looked. No wounds, no swelling, no nothin'. It is possible he was around 7 months old.

Probably the fancier ones have shorter lifespans because of inbreeding. And the ones that live years are plainer/more wild type?


----------



## AccaliaJay

Maybe. Or some people just have crazy luck. And I know how you feel about losing one like that. Iv lost quite a few unexpectedly like that. Like Hadifer was unexpected even though I knew it should have been any day since he was reaching 8 months. Apollo one of my first ever guppies along with Hadifer was finely swimming and the next day I skipped morning feeding and that night he was sticking to a plant dead. I dunno if he got caught on it while alive or if the filter current got him caught after he wasnt moving. It was so sad. Hadifer and Apollo were so close always swimming together


----------



## Sadist

I suppose inbreeding to get the pretty colors and spots could make them live less. I thought 2 years would be closer to normal. Now, knowing they don't live so long gives me more incentive for a breeding project again. I think I'd rather get prolific shrimp, though, since they seem less poopy.


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## BettaSplendid

Prolific shrimp! Here, here! One can hope. But oh my goodness, they are more delicate than guppies.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol iv been wanted to get african dwarf frogs to try. But everytime my mom goes near the petstore she never tells me so I can't go and get some. I also been wanting to get more bottom feeders besides shrimp for the 10 gallon where the guppies are I feel like despite skipping meals there's still uneaten food and it bothers me.


----------



## BettaBoy11

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol iv been wanted to get african dwarf frogs to try. But everytime my mom goes near the petstore she never tells me so I can't go and get some. I also been wanting to get more bottom feeders besides shrimp for the 10 gallon where the guppies are I feel like despite skipping meals there's still uneaten food and it bothers me.


Yes!!! I wish I had African Dwarf Frogs!!! I wish they could go with a fish in a five gallon, but that would probably be overstocked.:-(


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

AccaliaJay said:


> I hear males normally live 7 months. I'm glad I beat that by one month lol but who knows maybe some have lived way longer. I wonder what the oldest guppy was.


My shop bought ones varied. Usually around a year. If my homebreds made it healthily to adulthood, they lived 2years+. My line was really well established and because I selectively bred it meant that no inbreeding could occur. Having said that, there were anomalees, fish that only made about 2months. It depends I guess on the breeding, and environmental factors too.


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## AccaliaJay

Betta boy I have a empty 5 gallon from when my betta Blaze passed so I plan on getting two or three. Depending on the price.

And yeah that probably is good factor in how long they live.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I suppose inbreeding to get the pretty colors and spots could make them live less. I thought 2 years would be closer to normal. Now, knowing they don't live so long gives me more incentive for a breeding project again. I think I'd rather get prolific shrimp, though, since they seem less poopy.


Haha! Maybe it's just me but mine red shrimp sure are poopy. They were feeding along wood and leaving little pellets behind as they went. At least it is tiny poop lol


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## Sadist

Ha, I've never seen any of my shrimp poops. The otos have tiny poops, too.

Well, I have a mixture of good and bad news.

Bad: Spiral died.

Good: An hour of bleach disintegrated the snail body and left the shell nice and clean.

Bad: Apparently, there were gammarus shrimp in the shell, too. I found several of their corpses in the bag when I emptied the bleach and rinsed the shell. I'm not sure why I feel so attached to my accidental live food colony. 

Good: I managed to find an unbleached gammarus shrimp in my hand and fed it to Mrs. Fish. She liked it.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Ah no! ): that's sad. I'm sorry for your loss. Is tigeress okay?


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## AccaliaJay

What are you gonna do with his shell?


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## themamaj

Sorry about Spiral.


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## Sadist

The crayfish are both okay (Tiger and Tigress). Tigress must have been the one who molted; she's huge, now!

Another bad and good news day.

At breakfast, I found Santana's body. No rhyme or reason for his death, just a body in the gravel. Cornelius is back to being the only guppy again and glass surfing. They were playing in the filter current together yesterday. The otos are all fine, too, the little bit of them that are out and about. More plants are uprooted, and I'll have to fix those another day.

Good news is the kiddo's first top tooth fell out this morning. She's super excited and trying to figure out how to make a proper S sound without whistling.

Everyone who's alive seems nice and perky and healthy. Tequila had trouble understanding that pellets were food. I wonder what they were feeding him at walmart. I have to do pellets over the weekend since the family is home more.


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## Sadist

We all posted at the same time. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with his shell. I thought about using it to decorate a tank, but I might just add it to my shell collection that I started as a child. I don't have any assassin snail shells in it, so it would be especially special.


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## AccaliaJay

That's interesting. And sorry about him and Santana. I still don't understand how everyone else's guppies are dying so fast. It's insane at this rate.


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## Sadist

It really is insane. The longest lasting store bought one was 5 weeks? Maybe 6 weeks. It was Cornelius's father.


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## BettaSplendid

Aww, poor guppy. I hope Cornelius didn't catch cooties from them. I only have 3 guppies left. I just do not have the heart to update each death. *sigh* 

Your daughter is ADORABLE! hehehehehe. I love the little gappy smiles when they lose their front teeth.

Sorry about Spiral. Poor guy. Were you able tell if he was indeed missing parts?


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## AccaliaJay

Do the stores really not take that good of care with them? Or is it the stress of a new home? I don't understand how they die off that fast


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## Sadist

The stores take horrible care of them, but they mostly seem to do well there. I've seen tanks with fry in them several times. Maybe it's the stress. 

Spiral had missing parts but was starting to grow them back. When I found his corpse, it looked like part had been ripped off again (I did move him to a different tank, perhaps the new tank mates finally decided he was food). It could be that he died of something else and that the live food ate those parts off after he died. His shell still smells like bleach, so I think I'll just put it with my collection. I've never had a shell from something that was still alive when I got it.

Tired and sick, so sorry if none of this makes any sense  I'm happy Cornelius is still alive, but I think he may have to just stay lonely. I thought about adding Tequila in there, but the guppies were afraid of Sky when they were in his tank. Tequila is way bigger than Sky, and it could make Cornelius have a heart attack or something. Plus, I think there's too much water flow for Tequila and his long veil tail to handle.


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## BettaSplendid

I think it is bad genetics and disease. I had some for months who were fine until I got some new guppies. The new ones seem healthy and killed off most of my original ones. Like the new ones were carriers and immune to whatever they were carrying. It SUCKS. They can have everything from ich to who knows what. At least my cories haven't caught whatever plauges the guppies. And they were in the same tank at the fish store. I feel like even if I ordered healthy guppies from a good breeder they would.still die because of the "carriers" currently in my tank. It is really frustrating.


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## AccaliaJay

It's just so sad they don't get to live out their lives


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## Sadist

The carriers thing could be right on the mark. It would explain how people can keep fry alive but not adults from the store. I recall reading somewhere that someone who wanted guppies would just buy a super pregnant female and hope she survived to give birth because he could only keep guppies alive if he raised them from birth. He thought it was water issues, but it could be disease and genetics and such all mixed together.


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## Sadist

One theory I've been working on is that they have internal parasites so bad that the act of the medicine expelling the parasite is killing the fish. Without doing autopsies and such, I can't really do anything with the theory. 

I've heard of it happening with a kitten before. My mom found a stray, took it to the vet for deworming. She heard it crying in the middle of the night. When she got up to check on it, a 5 feet long parasite worm was sticking out of the backside.

I don't really understand why the other fish in the tank are not being infected unless my paraguard is completely killing the parasites.


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## themamaj

Oh your daughter is the cutest!!! How precious loosing first top tooth and trying to whistle. Love it. Special memories.

That is neat you have a shell collection. That is one of my favorite things to do at the beach. When we went to Charleston this past year, we spent a few days on the Isle of Palms. It was the end of Feb and cold as the arctic so lets just say I didn't have competition getting shells lol. It was really interesting that a large grouping of starfish had washed ashore from a prior storm. It was sad in so many had died, but exciting in that because they were not living, I could keep some. I brought about a dozen home and soaked them in alcohol to dry and sterilize them. My favorites I mounted in one of those shadow boxes. It is in my fish room. I also have keep special pieces like corals and different types of shells over the years. I think they are fascinating. Oh the other cool find was a horseshoe crab shell. Unfortunately it is only the lower half not the head but cool none the less. I cleaned it really well and then used a clear lacquer to coat it to preserve. Also putting a light coat of Vaseline on the shells and then wiping down excess will really make them shimmer. Love to see a picture of some of your favorites sometime.


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## BettaSplendid

5 foot long worm in a KITTEN. Yikes! Poor thing.

That is an EXCELLENT idea....buy a preggo female. But then I only want males. Would the fish store take my baby females back, once they're old enough? I wouldn't mind a tank full of Lemonades. I really miss him!


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## themamaj

All the issues that come with guppies discourage me about trying them again. I look at them every time I am in the lps. If I bought it would be from our private good aquarium store. I know they screen and quarantine so probably better odds at health but never guarantees of course. The do have a 14 day return policy and I think they would buy fry if healthy. Hmm something to consider one day. 

Dumb question but other than seeing their poop can you tell if a guppy is parasite infested by observation?


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## Sadist

Parasites can make something overly skinny or overly bloated that gets worse no matter what the food intake is. They're so small that it's harder for me to tell on fish. I had several females that I thought were preggo from the store, but as they died, they had super thin white poop. Not just stringy but as thin as a fin or strand of hair and hard to detect.

Tiger and Tigress are stalking around the tank. I think I'm going to buy more gravel to try to keep the plants from becoming uprooted when they climb them. They try to climb everything, then jump down.

Cornelius is glass surfing nonstop except while eating, poor guy. It was so good to see him interact, but I'm not sure I'm willing to try bringing more home and possibly infecting him, the otos, and the crayfish with whatever the store's aquarium has.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

I think maybe ordering from a breeder that has a strong established line is your best bet. You want a good strong healthy line. Obviously QT will be needed to ensure Cornelious stays good.

Splendid - I know your pain. 2 of my fish that passed QT managed to spread ich to Orion (Whom broke my heart and sadly passed away from it) and my swordtail. The 2 newbies didn't have a splutter of ich on them - I think they'd had it at the store and been treated and remained a 'carrier'. Somehow...


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## AccaliaJay

If michigan weather weren't so bad I would totally do shipping guppy fry. But this is michigan. It's crazy weather. Which is why I'll be waiting for spring and summer won't need to stress about heating packs and such. and maybe by then I'll be able to actually focus on breeding and maybe get some fancier guppies to mix in. Right now just need to focus on keeping mine alive.


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## Sadist

Today was watching all things Frozen on youtube with the girly. She got me into the parodies. She was scared of them, but some of them are really funny to me. There's an evil fire Elsa burning everyting in one of them. It's making me want to make some sort of burn everything character for D&D.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Today was watching all things Frozen on youtube with the girly. She got me into the parodies. She was scared of them, but some of them are really funny to me. There's an evil fire Elsa burning everyting in one of them. It's making me want to make some sort of burn everything character for D&D.


lol. Dungeons and Dragons? My son plays that


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## AccaliaJay

Okay guys I don't know how I missed this when I sometimes spend almost a half hour watching them swim but one of my females seem to have a deformed tail like seriously I feel really idiotic for not noticing it sooner. She doesn't seem to have problems swimming though so I'm not sure if I should just let her live as long as possible.


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## Sadist

I'm not sure on that. You'll have to keep an eye out for deformed fry from her.

Tigress has eggs again! Some day, I'll have little tanks in all of my tanks.

Someone asked how big they get when fully grown. I'm not sure. From what I read, I thought it would be the same size as a large ghost shrimp. Well, they were about the same size as a betta when they arrived, and they've only gotten bigger. I think they're supposed to be between 2 and 3 inches, and I underestimated what that size would be like.


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## themamaj

Bigger than I thought. yeah for Tigress! I hope this group will do well and you get lots of little Tigers


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## BettaSplendid

I thought they maxed out at 2"! Snippy already thinks she is Queen of the tank. She'll be full of herself if she gets 3".

...I _was_ kidding initially about finding tiny rubberbands. But maybe it wasn't a bad idea...


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## themamaj

Bettasplendid my daughter has some tiny hot pink ones


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## Sadist

We do, too! I'm not sure I'd ever be able to rubber band my little guys. I just keep them with quick fish so minimize fin loss


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## themamaj

I dont think I've had any issues with crays and fin loss. Of course Max was biter himself so probably not know if they did. His fins actually look better now then had because increased tank activity seems to keep his mind off biting.


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## Sadist

It looks like Tequila has a red beard, too. I got him to flare at a mirror for a few seconds. Now, he's guarding that wall of his tank extra diligently.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I'm watching her and I'm interested in crayfish they seem interesting. Kinda want some lol


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## AccaliaJay

Better picture I think


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol I'm watching her and I'm interested in crayfish they seem interesting. Kinda want some lol



They are a lot of fun to watch. If you decide to get some JDAquatics on site sells them. I think I got mine on Aquabid during one of the Sat night specials. His stock is great and arrived very quickly and healthy.


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## AccaliaJay

Most likely to cold here to ship lol


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> It looks like Tequila has a red beard, too. I got him to flare at a mirror for a few seconds. Now, he's guarding that wall of his tank extra diligently.


Oh that is so cute. I love their beards and bubble nests. Bettas are so great. Funny, feisty, smart, engaging. Wait. Engaging!? When did that happen! Heed the Thailand sign!!


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## Sadist

I meant orange beard! I think I'm losing it!

I bought my crayfish pair from Aquatics Arts. I think they're a bit more pricey in the crayfish department than JDAquatics. 

I saw some gammarus shrimp swimming around today. I really love the little things and so do the fish!


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## Sadist

I'm seriously thinking of getting some sky blue shrimp from Aquatics Arts soon. The weather is warmer here already, and they'd spice up the crayfish tank with their blue coloring. I guess I need to get more gravel to keep something planted in the back corner. I gave up on the water sprite and just let it float. I probably need more hides, too. They can't all stay in the java moss 24/7.


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## Sadist

I got to wipe worm guts from my daughter's face on the way to school. Having kids is so fun!


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## AccaliaJay

Ew lol. My guppies are producing to many males. I think I'll need to move the younger males to another tank. I only have four females right now and looks like I'll be having 6 or 7 males with the juveniles that are soon gonna be coming of age.


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## Sadist

Maybe you can sell the extra males.


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## AccaliaJay

No transportation my mom hates driving in the snow, my brother is to big of a jerk to drive me and my dad doesn't need to be bothered at work. If I were to sell them all to one person there's a chance my brother would but i would need to ask my mom if it's okay since he uses her truck.


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## AccaliaJay

Is it possible to successfully breed and raise a ghost shrimp without knowing? I found a tiny ghost shrimp about the size of what they normally are when I get them from petsmart and I havnt gotten anymore since Like a while. All my others are good size. I knew my shrimp had eggs but I thought it was entirely impossible for my tank to keep them alive.


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## Sadist

It's possible. Every once in a while, I read about someone who got lucky and have ghost shrimp breed like cherry shrimp in their tank. They just need biofilm and such when they're little and to not get caught by other tank inhabitants.


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## themamaj

So envious of people that can breed them! Have had several shrimp with eggs but never have seen babies. All the tank inhabitants are zealous for food so I imagine whatever hatches gets eaten quickly.


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## Sadist

I've never seen babies from mine, either, just read about it. 

I do have more than one pest snail in the 10 gallon. I'm not good at identifying snails. There is some plant damage, but I can't tell if it's from the snails, Cornelius, or Tiger/Tigress. BTW Tigress is glowy with pregnancy when she peaks out of her hide.

The snail in Sky's tank has been seen on the glass eating algae and on the plants, and I see no damage to the plants. Its shape doesn't look like a nerite to me.


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## Sadist

The kiddo's other tooth fell out.


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## ShadeSlayer

She has beautiful eyes!


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## AccaliaJay

It's hard to see but it's there


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## ShadeSlayer

fry?


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## AccaliaJay

Ghost shrimp baby lol I dunno what to call it


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## BettaSplendid

Awww, kiddo's too cute. How old are they when the top toofers come out? 7...8?

Ghost shrimp have a larval stage, right? I think that is what it is called. They do not hatch like mini me of their parents.


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## Sadist

I thought her teeth would come out when she's 6, but she's 5 right now! She has my eyes and hair and Daddy's size. The other kids have tried to bully her, but she stands up to kids that are bigger and stares them down! I'm so proud. I would have hit them at her age.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah ghost shrimp have a larvae stage. I didn't notice it at all during that stage which was why I was surprised.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Good, a fighter!


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## themamaj

I saw the baby shrimp how neat! 

Sadist your daughter is beautiful! Love that toothless smile. Does she enjoy painting?


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## Sadist

She does enjoy painting. This was a school project -- making her valentine card box. It's not as nice as the one you and your grandson made, but we still enjoyed it!

I see Sky's starting to develope those messy, store crowntail fins. Most of his caudal rays end in 2 points, but now one of them only has 1 point. I still can't id his snail. It seems to be eating only algae and possibly decaying plant matter (not live plants), so it's going to stay as a tank mate.

I tried to put Spiral's shell in a tank, but it just floated. After 2 days of soaking in dechlorinated water, it finally sank today.


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## Sadist

I think Sky's snail is a ramshorn. It's getting bigger than I imagined they would get. The ones in the 10 gallon look like pictures of pond snails but without the big pointy thing sticking out so far. I moved one to Mrs. Fish's tank in the hopes that she would eat it without me squishing it. She did try, then lost it in the substrate.


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## Sadist

I slacked on water change last week, hoping the plants would take care of it. Nitrates 40 in the 10 gallon! Poor everyone in there. Did water changes for everyone, and root tabbed the 10 gallon. I disturbed the java moss in the 10 gallon, and Tiger rushed over to hunt the gammarus shrimp. I ended up leaving it alone after that.

I saw Tigress this morning, and there weren't eggs any more :-( I should have gotten two females to enjoy the coloring


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## Sadist

I made a marketplace entry for Tequila Sunrise. I forgot to get heatpacks, so he's only available locally for now.


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## ShadeSlayer

who is tequila sunrise again?


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## Sadist

He's the orange pineapple veil tail up for adoption. I've had him in the quarantine tank for over 2 weeks, so I made the announcement that he's up for adoption.


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## ShadeSlayer

ooohhhh.... I wihs I could take him. I don’t have room for a betta right now tho. he sure is pretty!


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## Sadist

I showed the kiddo how to draw a stick-figure rose, and she copied it really well! Also, here's an updated (and still crumby) picture of Tequila Sunrise.


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## AccaliaJay

So pretty XD


----------



## themamaj

Tequila Sunrise is so pretty! He reminds me a lot of my fish Bob (Spongebob). I hope you are able to find a good home for him. Where do you buy heat packs from? I love the idea of fostering and then adopting out but the idea of shipping is terrifying! I guess once you learned how to pack properly and shipped a few times it probably wouldn't be a big deal. 

Today is a snow day here. Did you all get any? It is just a dusting to half inch or so but enough to cancel schools. We were supposed to have our pj day at preschool today. Instead I am having pj day with my coffee in my fish room 

Love your daughter's drawing! She is very smart to be able to draw that after just showing her how. What kind of valentines is she going to give out? Do they get to have a party at school?


----------



## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Tequila Sunrise is so pretty! He reminds me a lot of my fish Bob (Spongebob). I hope you are able to find a good home for him. Where do you buy heat packs from? I love the idea of fostering and then adopting out but the idea of shipping is terrifying! I guess once you learned how to pack properly and shipped a few times it probably wouldn't be a big deal.
> 
> Today is a snow day here. Did you all get any? It is just a dusting to half inch or so but enough to cancel schools. We were supposed to have our pj day at preschool today. Instead I am having pj day with my coffee in my fish room
> 
> Love your daughter's drawing! She is very smart to be able to draw that after just showing her how. What kind of valentines is she going to give out? Do they get to have a party at school?


I'm not exactly sure about where to buy the heat packs. Doing a 1 minute search on amazon didn't bring up anything usable, but I didn't have time to fine tune everything. 

The kiddo is getting better and better at drawing. Her fine motor skills were a bit behind in pre-K because I didn't know there was a preschool before age 4, and I also didn't know you're supposed to teach them how to draw. All of my art projects with her were always, "Here are some supplies, do what you want with them." She just started putting bodies on her stick figures. I was really surprised at how well she did the rose.

We do have a snow day, but the snow didn't really start until 0800 here. It started with flurries right before then on our way to our dentist check ups. It's cold enough that I'm hoping an inch sticks to the ground so she can play in it later.

The dentist visit was great. Her 6 year molars are already in, and her top teeth are right there ready to come in. The current loose ones have a bit of time before they're ready. My teeth are still good, too, in spite of all the coffee and sugar.

The tanks are all good. I got Tequila to flare at a cracker and really wished I had a camera available. He's got an active, wiggly dance with his flare, so I'm not sure if I would have gotten a useful picture. His beard is deep orange with black spots, and his fins are impressive puffed out.

I just saw Tigress, and she does have a few eggs on one side of her tail. I guess some of the eggs on the other side fell off, or she didn't lay them all at the same time.

Got some crumby flare pictures after all! In the first one, you can finally see that pretty pink iridescence. In the first one, the flash wasn't ready yet, so it's too dark to see his pretty orange beard.


----------



## themamaj

He is more of an orange than yellow? Even prettier with pink highlights!


----------



## Sadist

His fins are orange. He really didn't like that orange cracker. He has a bunch of clear spots that I assume are fin regrowth.


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## themamaj

Yes the clear spots usually is new growth. You have done a great job with him. He looks great. I need to quit looking at his picture or I might have to come get him. haha. I went to buy sand yesterday and brought home two more. One is a marble baby. I am so intrigued by genetic traits. The other was a delta. Exactly what I had been looking for.


----------



## Sadist

Haha! It's hard for me to resist keeping him. I so want to stick him in the 10 gallon, but I think there's too much flow for a veil tail.

I found http://www.amazon.com/UniHeat-Shipp...&sr=8-16&keywords=small+disposable+heat+packs at amazon. Someone said they're 5 x 7 inches, which may be a bit big. They also need to be separated a bit from the fish container (I'm sure you noticed that from your shipping experience). They supposedly get around 100 degrees, which will keep the box warm enough for the fish during a 1 day shipping. The same brand has longer lasting heat packs, too. I'm going to keep shopping around for a bit and see if I can find smaller ones for less that stay warm longer.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Haha! He is not okay with that Cheez-it.

I think you should adopt your own betta. I would.


----------



## Sadist

After he was able to swim on his own, I felt that the little 2.5 gallon quarantine is too small for him. The 10 gallon has a lot of flow for the otos, and it's way too much for a long-finned betta.

I've been neglecting to post pictures of my little piggy, Mrs. Fish. Here she is in her "I like mysis shrimp" pose. Note that she's removed the thermometer from the tank wall. Also, while saving the pictures, I noticed that yesterday is the year mark that I've had Mrs. Fish. Yay!


----------



## BettaSplendid

A female crowntail. What could be fiercer?! She scares me...all your stories of Mrs. Fish.

She is a cutie. Congratulations on your 1 year with her! She has no idea how fortunate she was to get an awesome warm home with room AND plants. Wow. AND live food. Probably less than 1% of bettas are so lucky.


----------



## Sadist

Aww, thanks. She is my little killing machine. She even tried to kill Stripey the Nerite (who didn't notice because she neglected to attack the tiny bit of soft part sticking out). I wish I had taken a video of her viciously attacking the shell while the snail dinked along eating.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Haha! It's hard for me to resist keeping him. I so want to stick him in the 10 gallon, but I think there's too much flow for a veil tail.
> 
> I found http://www.amazon.com/UniHeat-Shipp...&sr=8-16&keywords=small+disposable+heat+packs at amazon. Someone said they're 5 x 7 inches, which may be a bit big. They also need to be separated a bit from the fish container (I'm sure you noticed that from your shipping experience). They supposedly get around 100 degrees, which will keep the box warm enough for the fish during a 1 day shipping. The same brand has longer lasting heat packs, too. I'm going to keep shopping around for a bit and see if I can find smaller ones for less that stay warm longer.


I think the ones I have had in shipments were around 4x4 or 5x5 maybe. I just threw one away the other day I wish I had measured it. I bet lilnaugrim could probably tell us. She ships all the time. The packs definitely need to have a layer of separation from the fish. Russell had that issue with one of her shipments she received when one of heat pack was touching the bag and the fish got too hot. 

What type of filter do you have in your 10? i bet we could figure out some way to baffle it if you want to try the veil tail in there.


----------



## Sadist

I have the filter unbaffled because the otos get sick without a high flow. It's why I'm turning that one into a crayfish/oto/shrimp tank.


----------



## themamaj

Just saw Mrs Fish's picture. Look at that belly!!! Precious! What a fierce little lady but so cute with her little spikey tai! Happy One Year Mrs Fish! May you be blessed with many more years to come.


----------



## Sadist

I went a little overboard with the shrimp this morning. Look at her little scales all stretched out! She always has a big belly; her ovaries seem to be really low or crooked or something.


----------



## themamaj

My Sassafrass is a crown tail too. Her belly and ovaries have always been super prominent. I wonder if that is more of a trait of the crown tail girls because they seem to have a shorter body length.


----------



## Sadist

It could be. I can't actually find her ovaries with the dark coloring, but there's always a bulge right there. It's just super big today with the big breakfast.


----------



## Sadist

Memories from a year ago. I had to float her in Mr. Fish's tank while her water heated up.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Mr. fish is ADORABLE!!!!!


----------



## themamaj

Awww what a cute baby picture! Mr Fish is very handsome in the background


----------



## Sadist

That's the first time he flared. I miss the little booger. His tank is so wild and overgrown now; I think he would have finally stopped fin biting and enjoyed it.

Here's a picture of the water wisteria that decided to be terrarium instead of aquarium. You can see it with the pothos here. I'm not sure what the white fuzz is; I think it could be fruit fly related. I think some of the wingless flies climbed onto floating plants and turned back into yes-wing flies. In my rush to feed everyone, I didn't always stick around and make sure all the flies were consumed!


----------



## Schmoo

Happy one year to Mrs. Fish!  She looks like she celebrated heartily. Dat belly. <3


----------



## Sadist

Apparently little Sky is actually a girl! She just had very male fins for a while. Now, I have 2 blue crown tail girls!


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Congrats! ^^ I love the fact her fins are so long and scrumptious


----------



## Sadist

Me, too. Here's a baby picture.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Aww, thanks. She is my little killing machine. She even tried to kill Stripey the Nerite (who didn't notice because she neglected to attack the tiny bit of soft part sticking out). I wish I had taken a video of her viciously attacking the shell while the snail dinked along eating.


LOL.

She is terrifying! :shock:



Our female, Stormy, jumps out of the water to bite fingers.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Aw!! She's so skinny :S so glad she's in such loving hands now. 

BettaSplendid - that right there would be my worst nightmare. Fish are fi looking at, I don't want them to touch meh! D: that would scare me soo much.


----------



## Sadist

Mrs. Fish used to jump and bite at my fingers. I had to stop hand feeding her and start toothpick feeding her to discourage it.

Yes, Sky was such a tiny little skinny thing. I was afraid she was already stunted when I bought her. Now, she's about the size Mrs. Fish was when I bought her a year ago.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Hmmmmmmmm........maybe a crowntail sorority.........?


----------



## themamaj

Sky has the cutest baby picture!! Isn't it amazing how they grow and change?


----------



## themamaj

BettaSplendid said:


> Hmmmmmmmm........maybe a crowntail sorority.........?



Would that not be the cutest sorority with little spikey tails all over the tank!


----------



## Sadist

I wish! I better start making a few steak and potato dinners and soften the hubby up for that  "Sweety, can I put a 30 gallon tank in the dining room and put 10 aggressive fish in it that might start killing each other and need to be put into 10 small tanks at the drop of a hat? Oh, and I'll need to buy $300 of plants to fill it up to discourage fishy Armageddon. And a colony of expensive shrimp as a clean-up crew that might get eaten instead." He already hates that I don't have everything crowded into the 10 gallon and thinks these types of fish are too stupid to be kept alive because they eat baby fish.

Oh, and Mrs. Fish has already established that she's queen of the tank. Anything except the impervious nerite snail has been ripped in half and scattered across the sand. I'm not sure a bigger tank would help. 

I just noticed in her coming home picture that she was flaring back at Mr. Fish, too. It's hard to tell at that angle. I also remember my daughter coming back from school and seeing them like that. "Oh, they're married!" I had to joke with my dad that they're married, but they have to live in different homes so they don't make babies or kill each other.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

I currently have a sorority of wild type round tails. Gah, I'm desperate to find some other colours!! I want some more variety.

Haha. Mrs Fish sounds a real character (with serious attitude) lol. 

Hehe, that did make me chuckle a little lol.


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## themamaj

ROFL that is hillarious! I could just see my hubby's reaction to the credit card statement of a plant purchase. I think Armageddon would break out in the kitchen haha. That is why I ease them in one tank at a time. Poor hubby is so perplexed when comes in fish room. He just looks around the room like a deer in the headlights. Mrs Fish cracks me up! She is like a little attack dog. Don't mess with my tank or I will take you down! Too cute daughter thinks they are married. Poor Mr Fish has to admire through the barrier wall


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## BeautifulBettaFishies

Haha. I'm unmarried, so none of the husband issues arise, which is fabulous.:,)
My girls are good touch wood. Thank god for hang on hatchery nets, means I don't need 10 tanks every time an argument breaks out.


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## themamaj

BeautifulBettaFishies said:


> Haha. I'm unmarried, so none of the husband issues arise, which is fabulous.:,)
> My girls are good touch wood. Thank god for hang on hatchery nets, means I don't need 10 tanks every time an argument breaks out.



That is a good idea on hatchery nets.


----------



## Sadist

I had to put Mr. Fish to sleep a few months ago. He had a tumor on his face that was interfering with eating and got to that point. 

Funny how aggressive Mrs. Fish is with anything in her territory. She's quite timid about something outside of her territory and hides from a mirror. She does flare at me sometimes if I rush into the room and startle her. Otherwise, I thought she'd be a laid-back kind of girl. Nope! She's a little Conan the Barbarian! "Die, fruit fly! Die, worm! Die shrimp! Die squished snail! Die nerite snail! Wait, I said die! Die! Die! [three days later] Okay, I'm going to pretend you aren't here."


----------



## Sadist

I let the kiddo put hair chalk on her dolls, and she brought me up to show me hair chalk on everything else. She's going to be the death of me some day.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

hair chalk... *Shudder*


----------



## Sadist

She decided that it looks like blush and blushed a bunch of her stuffed animals, too. I made her clean what she got on the walls and counter but left everything else. She's been wanting to dye her hair since I dyed mine pink, but I think she's too young to do it safely (bleach, dye, wash, etc).


----------



## Sadist

I tried to pet Sky after breakfast today. She just continued to beach herself on the plants and think it was feeding time.

I've squished several snails, but they always unstick from the glass and float away. I managed to net one squished one and try to give it to Mrs. Fish. I don't mind a few snails, but I don't want lots of sucessful breeding of them without Spiral to eat them up. Maybe I need to get another assassin snail.


----------



## themamaj

Hahaha shudder to be a fruit flly at your house  She has tapped into her inner "wild side". Too funny.

Sounds like your little one is quite creative. May have a future artist in making. haha. Of course not at thrilling when having to clean up the artwork. My son climbed up on top of his little table as a toddler and sat there smiling from ear to ear. Next to him was a beautiful masterpiece on my window. A lovely abstract with yogurt lol.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sighs. Kids. I baby sit for some terrors.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Sadist said:


> She decided that it looks like blush and blushed a bunch of her stuffed animals, too. I made her clean what she got on the walls and counter but left everything else. She's been wanting to dye her hair since I dyed mine pink, but I think she's too young to do it safely (bleach, dye, wash, etc).


Get her some coloured hairspray. It washes out, its really vivid and bright coloured, and it doesn't contain all the same harsh chemicals hair dye does. It's practically hairspray and works in the same manner. It's good stuff for trialing colours - I got to try different colours and ended up dip dying mine red. I wouldn't again as I'd like to try new colours.


----------



## BettaSplendid

HAHAHAHA. 

Okay, no soroity then.

*goes back to scarfing Reeses mini pieces*


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Like me when I watch someone play piano like a boss. And I only use my hands for eating Oreos....
I’m dying my hair pastel at the tips. Excited for that.
I envy you for your tanks, Sadist! They’re so beautiful and healthy.


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## Sadist

We can't do anything to her hair that has fragrance in it, so no hair spray. It took me a year to find a detangler that doesn't have fragrance. The dyes I use are veggie oil based, so it's just the bleach and peroxide used to lighten the hair first that are a problem. Her two emergency room visits have been eye related, and I just feel like I'd get bleach in her eye somehow with her wiggling.

Thanks for the advice, though! If I find some hair color spray without fragrance, I'll try some out with her.

Hehe, and MammaJ, I love that story! I grew up in the day where they told parents to leave the kid alone in the crib by herself, so I painted on the wall and crib with my diaper contents. Artist in the making!


----------



## BettaSplendid

My mom did that too...painted with her poop because Grandma left her in the crib alone. Take THAT, mom. Erg.


----------



## Sadist

My dad couldn't wait for the revenge of my offspring doing that. I never left her alone, and her skin was too sensitive to leave her running around with a dirty diaper. I couldn't imagine leaving a baby alone, crying in a crib!


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Aw! My mother was a young mum, and she was so protective of me. She didn't leave me alone five minutes heh, apparently I wouldn't let her either. Lol.


----------



## Sadist

Same with mine! She's 5 years old and just now starting to play by herself for 30 minutes at a time. I guess I should be happy that she wants to play and spend as much time with her as I can before she's a grumpy teen.

I see Tigress out and about finding food! Her tail is curled under, so I'm assuming she still has eggs. Oops, she went back into hiding when the kiddo came in to get help.

Kiddo's home for President's Day. I was thinking of going to the pet store and looking at the lighting systems. My current set up is not enough to keep the floating plants healthy on the 10 gallon. I keep adding more and more as the 2.5 gallon floaters multiply (every day!). I really feel bad for Cornelius and want to get him a friend, too, but I'm a little afraid of another repeat of deaths. I also need more tall plants to fill in the back, cover up the sponge filter/heater area, and give future shrimp more cover. Maybe some more ground rocks for that, too.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Lol! Bless her. ! Well, I'm a teen now, and me and my mother are still very close. If anything, it would be my siblings that get in the way of us. The gap between me and my youngest sibling is 10/11 years, which seems to surprise some people, lol. Just realised she is also the same age as yours ^^ she's 5 and still so clingy. Being the youngest and last, she is spoilt rotten, hehe. 

Sounds like fun! My tank only has a Leddy light in the hood and I worry if that's enough. I'd like to be able to have colour options like blue or mild pink but that's unlikely to ever happen due to the hood.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Im about 17 years older than my baby sister XD I remember what it was live being the youngest. It sucked. Specially with two older brothers. I also have a older half sister. She's the oldest


----------



## Sadist

I bought another male for Cornelius to play with. Predosed the tank with paraguard and am giving the new guy a paraguard bath while he acclimates. He was the last one in his tank, so maybe having a buddy will make them both feel better.


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## Sadist

Ugg, Cornelius is doing a mating dance through the cup wall. I noticed he tried to mate with the other males when they were in there, too.


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## ShadeSlayer

As a grumpy teen, I can tell you that it won’t be all that bad. Worst days come when the chocolate is out and Gravity Falls ended.


----------



## themamaj

Actually that same son did that as well when I thought he was playing in his room. I must have gone to put in a load of clothes but within minutes he decided that was a great art medium and painted all his toys and the wall. I remember calling my husband crying...bleaching and crying haha.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Ugg, Cornelius is doing a mating dance through the cup wall. I noticed he tried to mate with the other males when they were in there, too.


Heh heh heh. Little Corney.

I like their "electric shock" dance.


I am suddenly very pleased that Daughter only.drew on the wall with markers! Markers, btw, go through as many layers of new paint as you care to slather on. Just bleeds through. Thanks, Daughter.


Son drew an alpaca pooping and a tornado with an "x" over it (during a storm, this is a tornado free zone now, because of the sign). He listened when I said "no drawing on walls". Daughter....is an artist.


----------



## Sadist

Haha! We have scrubbable paint on our wall, and kid art supplies now are very washable. Except crayons, don't forget to check pockets when they start school. Thank goodness school uniforms were dark that year.

Well, both guppies seem to think the other is a female. I have to say I'm proud of Cornelius for putting on such a long mating display before he goes for it. I'd read that they learn how to display longer by watching other males as they grow up.


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## AccaliaJay

That's cute lol. I have a question. Do any of you know if putting aquarium salt in my tank with the guppies, guppy fry, ghost shrimp and Nerite snails would be okay. Diamond looks like she may be either having cotton fungus or something and I notice my male Vulcan lounging on the gravel for a while. Iv never seen a guppy stay in one place for that long. I'm a bit worried but I think I read somewhere not to put aquarium salt in with guppy fry. Don't remember where though.


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## Sadist

I just found Stripey upside down. She appeared to be trying to tuck herself into her shell but had some sand in the way. I moved her to the 2.5 gallon and put her down on the java moss carpet. She and the pond/bladder snail (there appears to be just 1 big one in there, so now I wonder if they came from the java moss instead of the water sprite) are both on the side, now. I wonder if Mrs. Fish somehow knocked her off the glass?

I saw Tigress out and about, and she has eggs! She didn't seem to be fanning them around like shrimp do, so I wonder if they're just dying and falling off over time instead of hatching. Hopefully, she gets the hang of it.

My opinion on dwarf crayfish now that I've had both -- I wish I had just gotten a female. Her coloring is so much richer! The male is out and about more often, but I'm not sure if it's because males do that or if the female is hiding because of her eggs.

PetCo had what they called a 2.5 inch blue lobster. I was barely able to get someone to catch the guppy and check me out, so I forgot to ask about it. If it stayed that size... well I probably still don't have a good tank for it right now! I really wanted to bring it home.


----------



## BettaFire682

My Betta is getting old and might be reaching the end of his pool. I think Guppies would be a good replacement. However I will always love my Fue'go


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## AccaliaJay

Guppies are good to try. However lots of people recently have trouble keep them alive or alive long enough to breed.


----------



## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> That's cute lol. I have a question. Do any of you know if putting aquarium salt in my tank with the guppies, guppy fry, ghost shrimp and Nerite snails would be okay. Diamond looks like she may be either having cotton fungus or something and I notice my male Vulcan lounging on the gravel for a while. Iv never seen a guppy stay in one place for that long. I'm a bit worried but I think I read somewhere not to put aquarium salt in with guppy fry. Don't remember where though.


I've read that salt is good for guppies. It shouldn't hurt the nerite, either, as they need brackish water to breed. I'm not sure about ghost shrimp, but they should be okay.

One thing to keep in mind is to add it slowly over the day after you disolve it in some tank water. Sorry I just saw this.


----------



## AccaliaJay

It's fine lol I filled up my jug and put the salt in it. I'll probably pour some throughout the day. Waters been dissolving in my tank anyways because of the wood stove. Thanks for replying.


----------



## BettaSplendid

I think ghost shrimp larva actually need (or prefer) some salt too. Gups, ghost shrimp and Nerites should be fine with salt, but then again, Dr. Google knows best.


----------



## AccaliaJay

You know your mother needs a intervention when she orders 48 cent statues even though she has no use for them x.x


----------



## AccaliaJay

I think Diamond my female has dropsy. The white thing is gone from her side and after looking up the signs I did notice scales on her belly are raised and she just doesn't look right to me. I have no idea what to do. I heard if a fish dies in the tank with dropsy it can infect the others. I don't want to risk my other fish but I would feel bad for putting her in a tank by herself. Any opinions?


----------



## Sadist

My first betta got dropsy, and the bacteria did infect the next two fish and kill them before I sanitized the tank.

Dropsy itself is a sign that the organs aren't working right. Whether that's from a bacterial infection or whatever, it in itself isn't a disease. 

I'm not really sure if removing her is better than leaving her in. Myself, I would remove her in the hopes that nothing else has caught whatever caused dropsy.


----------



## AccaliaJay

http://youtu.be/k1d-OCE41pk it's hard to see my camera video sucks


----------



## Sadist

It's so hard to tell in the video if she just has a huge pregnancy or is sick. Maybe that was my problem with my females dying, couldn't tell dropsy from giant pregnancy. Good luck with whatever you choose!


----------



## AccaliaJay

Would her scales be sticking up if she was really pregant though?


----------



## Sadist

I'm not sure. Probably not. Their scales are so small compared to bettas that I never noticed any. I do know that I had a 100% death rate when removed to a new environment, even if they were kept dark with gentle medicine. I thought it was better to lose one fish than the whole tank when there was something obviously wrong.

My new boy had a giant constipated poop ending with a string. Keeping paraguard in there a few extra days, and I hope he survives!


----------



## AccaliaJay

It's so sad if she passes there's only Vulcan and Rory left from my second generation.


----------



## Sadist

I almost bought a girl to start up the breeding again, but this boy was in the tank all by himself.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Well your giving him a home so that's good


----------



## Sadist

It's probably better that I don't breed again no matter how much I want to see babies all over the place.


----------



## BettaSplendid

I hope that Paraguard works. ! It is hard to know what to treat them with at first and time is of the essence since ya KNOW they got somethin funky. Sigh. Is Cornelious still _excited_ about his new friend?


----------



## Sadist

Yes, they both are making moves at each other.

New boy is working on his 4th poop for today. The part closest to his body is brown instead of white! I hope this means the paraguard is working. I've been using a half dose to see if it would work without hurting him. Wish me luck!


----------



## AccaliaJay

Took Diamond out today cause she looks worse. I feel bad. The others arent acting weird besides attack the mossball I put in there yesturday


----------



## Sadist

I'm so sorry about Diamond. I haven't even named my new boy. His coloring is better today than the other days, so I think a half dose of paraguard worked on his illness without harming him. I recall many lost guppies while they were pooping our the bad stuff. I'm going to continue dosing half paraguard doses for a few more days to make sure anything in the waste that doesn't get vacuumed gets killed.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Glad he's better and pooping better


----------



## Sadist

I fed daphnia freshdelica to everyone today to try to trim the bellies down after bloodworm days. It'll help the new boy with anything left in his belly, too. I need to find some frozen whole daphnia somewhere.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Apparently someone called CPS on my brother and his wife saying his wife is a hoarder. Frankly I don't disagree. Her and mom shop to much and have no where to even put most of the stuff. But they are getting the stuff cheap so can't complain to much unless my mom started putting her stuff back in the house and we start tripping over it x.x wonder if it's possible to hoard fish..


----------



## Sadist

I'm sure you can. You've seen those cat hoarders on tv with the whole house covered in feces and dead kittens in the silverware drawer? I'm sure there's someone with fish like that. I don't care if someone has 30 tanks if they're taking care of them.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Iv seen somone on here say they had over 20 bettas XD that's the highest iv seen though


----------



## Sadist

Got a picture of the guppies, and it almost looks in focus! Yay, me! Cornelius is blocking the shot of the new boy, but you can get a look at his weird tail formation and his coloring.

Got a picture of Sky and her ramshorn snail, which I've named Ramsy.

Got another picture of Tequila Sunrise posing in the sunlight.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Beautiful photos! All the fish are gorgeous.


----------



## AccaliaJay

That baby ghost shrimp is getting big almost the size of my male already. And I just seen another baby! Something must be right in my tank XD


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies

Love your tanks! Looks like your guppy could be some kind of endler "hybrid" possibly. Couldn't confirm without more pictures and without Cornelious photobombing :lol:

I still can't get over how pretty Tequila is <3


----------



## Sadist

The new guy has developed a splotch of purple iridescence between his dorsal and head. Since I'm not breeding them right now, I don't care too much what he looks like or his lineage.

Thanks for the compliments, everyone!

I forgot the paraguard Sunday, so I went ahead and stopped using it. Today was a 35% water change, crossing fingers the new boy survives. He and Cornelius are chasing and courting each other right now. They really loved the mysis shrimp this morning and may have eaten most of the crayfish's share, too. I hope they don't get sick from the massive breakfast!

Mrs. Fish was superbly happy to have shrimp today, too. Sky beached herself enthusiastically on the salvinia, and Tequila's little nose was very happy to get shrimp, too. To feed him, I clear out a spot above his head, and usually I can just see his mouth. His chin is getting grayish/whitish but no fuzz. It reminds me of old man colored fish, and I wonder if he's old. I might end up having to keep him for his last months here if he is.

Tigress was out and about for a bit today, probably foraging for food since the guppies ate the bunch I put near her tunnel. She still has eggs, but I'm not seeing the fanning motion that shrimp use. I thought crayfish fanned them, too.

Lots of nonfish stuff going on. Our loan was sold to another company, so we're dealing with that transfer stuff. We're refinancing to a lower interest rate, too. My bank just merged, so I'm up in the air about paying for anything except by check or with the hubby's card. His work company just went through a huge merger, and he just stopped having to do 12-14 hour days 7/day a week workload. It was so nice seeing how happy our little girl was when he was home for dinner on Thursday!

The kiddo's got some illness going on. Doctor appointment tomorrow.


----------



## Sadist

I dropped some food next to Tigress's cave, and now she's there gathering it up. She's fanning her eggs around, too! I'm more hopeful that we'll get living babies.


----------



## BettaSplendid

I love your descriptions of how each fish (and cray) eat. Sky beaches herself! ROFL. Doesn't get anymore killer-enthusiastic than that right there. And Tequila's little lips. 

Hope little girl feels better soon. It will be spring soon, it will be spring soon, it will be spring soon. (So tired of winter sicknesses!)

CPO's carry the babies too, when they hatch. Good luck, Tigress! What week is she on now? 2?


----------



## Sadist

I'm not sure! I'll have to read back and see. 

I'm so tired of illnesses, too. Now that she can blow her nose, she hasn't been sick hardly at all this year. From age 2-4 it was one long sinus/ear infection. I think that's what she has this time, but she didn't seem to have a cold first like normal. Maybe she's developed an allergy to something or started having migraines like my dad and me.


----------



## BettaSplendid

https://youtu.be/1Oe1Sf9ir5M

Mama cray feeding her babies while carrying them. She would be a great multi tasker!

Aren't these hatched babies hanging on..?
https://youtu.be/j1QAjAaJXRY


----------



## Sadist

Yes! Tigress's eggs are still tiny, and I don't see anything resembling eye spots on them. 

I can't wait to see her feeding babies like that! It's really neat!

Tigress is out and about cleaning up the guppies' dinner particles and fanning the eggs. The guppies are still confused on each others' genders. Mrs. Fish flared at her shrimp dinner. I love her cute little beard. I took the paper from between Sky and Tequila's tanks, but the tanks are at different levels. I don't think they've noticed each other. I'd like to get Sky to flare a little and see her beard.


----------



## themamaj

I love your pictures you posted! So glad Cornelius has a friend now. I hope he will do well and you get an upper hand on things with the paraguard. Tequilla sunrise is gorgeous! What beautiful colors he is. Sky is the cutest thing! Love her little spikey tail. I think crowntail females are my favorite. So much personality! Good luck with Tigress and eggs!! I hope your daughter feels better as well.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

BeautifulBettaFishies said:


> Love your tanks! Looks like your guppy could be some kind of endler "hybrid" possibly. Couldn't confirm without more pictures and without Cornelious photobombing :lol:
> 
> I still can't get over how pretty Tequila is <3


Its a spade tail guppy, I think. Or spear tail.


----------



## Sadist

The new guy has snakeskin spots on his body with a hint of yellow and a yellow dorsal (with spots!), has purple iridescence behind his head, and an orange caudal. I can't tell if he has fin rot or some natural black coloring lining his caudal. He isn't acting sick, so I guess I'll keep an eye on it.

Tiger was hiding in the java moss, and I wonder if he's getting ready to molt.


----------



## Sadist

Ramsy is crawling around on the glass today. I wish I had ramshorn snails for all of my tanks!

I haven't seen any of the pond/bladdar snails for a while except in the 2.5 gallon. I wonder if the squished ones are hiding or if the crayfish found them. I've been wondering if they ate the roots on my rooted plants, and that's the problem with all the plants coming up after being there for a year. All the ones that come up have no roots.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Does any one know if assassin snails will eat nerite snail eggs? I have three nerite snails. 1 in my betta Liberty's tank and two in the guppy tank and theirs alot of eggs sticking to the walls/corner and its hard to manually remove all them. I know I would have to remove my nerites because they more than likely would get eaten but if it gets rid of their eggs I was thinking of getting a assassin snail for a egg clean up. I havn't seen any brown algae since getting my nerites just way to many nerite eggs.


----------



## Sadist

I don't know if they eat nerite eggs or not. If there isn't anything else to eat, they might.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Well I guess it would be an adventure then. It will be my first time ordering a live animal to just need to get my mom to order it. If it won't eat them what else will they eat just in case. Fish flakes, algea pellets?


----------



## ShadeSlayer

algae pellets. They will eat your live nirites, be warned. _Assasin_ snails.


----------



## Sadist

I've read to feed them fish food.

Well, I haven't posted tanks in a while, so here they are in all their broken glory. I got a little carried away with the rooibos tea yesterday, so they're all a bit dark.

You can see how many crypts are uprooted now in the 10 gallon. They've all been rehomed with Mrs. Fish or are tangled in the floating plants.

Mrs. Fish's tank is doing surprisingly well in its lighting situation. I did just notice the area with pothos leaves under water and fixed it.

Sky's tank is a proper jungle, just need to keep something going in that left corner. No matter what I do there, it ends up drifting to the right and getting tangled in everything else. I will eventually trim the pothos roots, but I like how they are right now.

The 2.5 gallon quarantine is doing well. I really like how healthy the plants are and wish I could put all the tanks in the window. I still need a new stand for it. I went looking at shelves and stands once, but I got overwhelmed by the people or had my kiddo with me or something that made me rush away without looking more.


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## AccaliaJay

Well I won't need any food then. My moms adding her card then she'll order it. 1 assassin snail and 5 Sakura fire red cherry shrimp. Iv always wanted cherry shrimp when Blaze was alive but they never carried it at the pet stores and I was always scared of them dieing during shipping but this time I shall suck it up and hope I have good luck on my side. Anyone order from aquatic arts on amazon?


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## AccaliaJay

By the way sadist love the tanks


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## Sadist

Thanks!

I have ordered from Aquatics Arts over amazon and directly from their site. My crayfish are from them, and my assassin snail was from them. The assassin snail died after a few months, and I suspect injury from tank mates as the cause. Totally my fault.


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## themamaj

Love tanks. Envious of your ability to have great plants.


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## AccaliaJay

Sounds like they do good then I read some reviews that sad people have even received more than they ordered


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## Sadist

There's something wrong with Tigress. At first, I thought she was molting in the corner, then I thought she was having an amorous encounter with Tiger, then I saw he had ripped off some of her legs. She's still moving, but she won't flip over. I tried to help her flip over with the net, but she got scared and swam away. Daughter's very needy today, probably won't be able to read responses until tomorrow.


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## themamaj

Oh gee. Poor Tigress.


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## BettaSplendid

Is she on her back? She is in the tank with the guppies, right? Is the Paraguard safe for invertebrates? I hope she makes it...I know it is "normal" for them to fight and a leg go missing...hope all it was was a quarrel and she recovers!


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## Sadist

I managed to flip her over, but she went right back to her back (Tiger was right next to her). They seemed to have some more amorous encounter for a while, but when we got home from hiking, she seems to be dead and partially molted. I feel aweful that I didn't have somewhere safe to move her.


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## Sadist

She's definitely dead today. Her head was partially molted, her eggs were still there, and the gammarus shrimp were at her. I buried her with our onions, which we planted to see if they get flowers. I'm chalking it up to a molting problem combined with territorial/mating issue. Tiger is clunking around like a little tank with no problem, and the guppies look fine. I'll check the parameters in a few minutes when I work up the energy to stand up again.


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## BettaSplendid

Augh! I am so sorry! Such a pretty little thing and she always looked healthy in your pictures. That was my experience too; up and die seemingly out of nowhere. In my case, I think they got sick when I got sick...because I missed water change and I think they got a bacterial infection then. I don't know...just guessing. I think their life spans are short too...but if Tigress was young enough to carry eggs you wouldn't think she was old. *sigh* Too had she her babes couldn't hatch. I do want to order some more CPO's....probably will. Maybe in spring.


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## Sadist

They were juveniles when I bought them, so the eggs happened before she was even fully adult. I did miss a water change and then got carried away with rooibos tea after I finally got the water changed. I'm not sure I'll get any more crustaceans with Tiger in there. I really liked Tigress's coloring better, and she looked healthy even while she was dying. 

I saw a gammarus shrimp swimming around where her body used to be. I almost left it in there but didn't want a big smell or spike in the parameters.


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## themamaj

So sorry to hear about Tigress! I lost one as well from molting issues. It seems like molting must be a complicated process. I would imagine it probably takes a lot of energy to molt and if she had been compromised energy wise prior, it might have just been too much at time. Even with our best efforts sometimes just nothing we can do to prevent it. So sorry.


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## Sadist

Me, too. My best guess is that she didn't molt when she should have because of the eggs. Then, she resisted an amorous encounter and got some of her appendages ripped off. Eventually, the encounter happened or she was injured so bad some of the plating came off her head. The bad stuff always happens on the weekends when I can't devote myself to the tanks like I wish.

The hike was nice and would have been nicer without my cold. I ran out of tissues and water, and then the kiddo fell on a hard part and scraped her knee. I had to wipe the mud off of her with my shirt, then scrub the scrape with alcohol wipes when we made it back to the car. I think we're going to scar her for life against nature with all the mishaps we've had over the past year on our hikes.


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## Sadist

I caught some gammarus shrimp for Mrs. Fish, but by the time I squirted them to her tank, she was looking the wrong way and missed them. I'm hoping they set up a little colony in the rooibos tea leaves or something or that she smells them and has fun hunting them down. I only managed 2, so we'll see what happens!


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Me, too. My best guess is that she didn't molt when she should have because of the eggs. Then, she resisted an amorous encounter and got some of her appendages ripped off. Eventually, the encounter happened or she was injured so bad some of the plating came off her head. The bad stuff always happens on the weekends when I can't devote myself to the tanks like I wish.
> 
> The hike was nice and would have been nicer without my cold. I ran out of tissues and water, and then the kiddo fell on a hard part and scraped her knee. I had to wipe the mud off of her with my shirt, then scrub the scrape with alcohol wipes when we made it back to the car. I think we're going to scar her for life against nature with all the mishaps we've had over the past year on our hikes.


This sounds likely! Poor lady.

I hope you feel betta soon. Amd your daughter.


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## Sadist

Thanks! I'm still trying to fight the cold off. I guess my normal illness is making it take longer. I hope none of my fish get sick from me too tired to gravel shrimp.


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## ShadeSlayer

awww, feel better soon!


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## Sadist

I feel a little less tired after a nap. Mrs. Fish flared at me for more shrimp even though she's quite round today.

And a miracle! I may have made a squeal.

Here's Tiger, and Tiger more blurry, and... Tiger Jr! I guess something happened with the first batch of eggs after all! I'm thinking of moving Tiger to another cage so the little one can grow up.


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## ShadeSlayer

Coooooolll!!!! OMG I’m so hapy that you found one!!


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## ThatFishThough

Yes! Is it male or female! Congratz!


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## Sadist

I can't tell the gender on it. It's about 1.5 cm long, maybe smaller.


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## themamaj

Awww how cute. That is so awesome! !!! Congrats


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## BettaSplendid

Oh wow! Whattalilsweetheart! That is great.


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## Sadist

I got another picture. Guppy blur photo bomb.


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## Sadist

Ramsy (the ramshorn that hitchhiked in on something) came out, so I got a few pictures of it. It's gotten quite large over the last few months, almost the size of a nickel, now!

I had to get Tequila and a Sky blur while I was over there. Tequila is getting old man gray on him, so I think I'll take him off of adoption. I didn't realize how old he was when I brought him home. It's not fair to ship him off at this point.


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## Sadist

Got a picture with baby crayfish to the left and a tangle of gammarus shrimp eating a blood worm to in the bottom right corner.


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## AccaliaJay

That's neat


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## BettaSplendid

Eeeeeee! That baby CPO is squeal-worthy cute! It OWNS the tank. They really.think they are tough and bigger than they are- that is what makes them so cute, I think.

Guppies lookin good, too! So is Tequila, he is a looker.


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## Sadist

I wish I could have gotten a video of those gammarus shrimp. They were jerking the bloodworm around in different directions, really violent! They're so tiny, though. As soon as one found the bloodworm, I saw some more climb out of their hiding places and shoot over there.


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## BettaSplendid

Which makes you wonder how they communicate? I notice when one cory finds something it is like it "calls" the others over. Same with the guppies, same with the shrimp.


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## Sadist

I'm guessing there's at least a little bit of hormone/smell exchange.

Daddy and baby crayfish picture! You can see a bit of oto at the top. Sorry for the glare; I just took one picture so I wouldn't disturb everyone at the food area.

The other day, my daughter asked me why Tequila's tank has no lid to keep him from jumping out. I'm so proud of her! I didn't think she'd been paying attention when I was trying to teach her about tanks. I showed her the gap I leave above the water line and told her about sunlight working better than the lights that came with the lid. She didn't appear to be paying attention, but maybe she'll absorb some of it!

I also noticed the white fuzz on the riparium style plants is some sort of white, fuzzy bug. Either that, or I have an intelligent fungus that can clump together in bug shape and is taking over the planet.

I fed everyone bloodworms. They're all sporting, "I love bloodworms!" bellies. Mrs. Fish flared at me between bites, too. I love her cute little beard!


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## themamaj

Smart girl! Love to hear that. Baby cray and shrimp so cute! I don't know much about that type of shrimp. That is neat they eat blood worms. Have never seen my shrimp eat anything like that.


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## Nismo83

Nice cpo. Maybe I shd get a pair to breed


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Smart girl! Love to hear that. Baby cray and shrimp so cute! I don't know much about that type of shrimp. That is neat they eat blood worms. Have never seen my shrimp eat anything like that.


My ghost shrimp would come to the surface during feeding time and steal bloodworms! Silly things.

Well, it seems like there's a chance that my gammarus shrimp are eating my plant roots. I've been trying to figure out why my plants were having problems. The floating ones are all okay. There's still a chance that it's the pest snails as I haven't id'd them. Almost all of my plants in that tank are floating, now! I'm sure the crayfish catch one every once in a while, but they don't eat enough of them. I'd put a betta in there, but I just imagine a territorial fight to the death between the crayfish and the betta.

Nismo83 I got my pair of CPO from Aquatics Arts, though JDAquatics sells them, too. They seem to be a little territorial with each other.


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## SydneyA

I love the baby crayfish. I wish they stayed tiny! I read through some of your earlier pages of guppy breeding issues. I was never able to be very successful. My best breeding happened by accident was when I would find fry in the main tank when they suddenly would appear, lol. I did grow up some tiny ones from when I worked in a pet store.


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## Sadist

I still have my remaining guppy fry and the new guy. They still seem to think the other is a girl.


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## SydneyA

I have 3 male guppies in my community tank. I don't get girls unless I intend to have them breed the darn males just harass the heck out of her. You make me want crayfish again!


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## AccaliaJay

My male tank still has moments where the males are hopeful that the other males are female XD AquaticArts sent out my assassin snail and cherry shrimp. Cant wait!!! I just hope they all arrive alive and okay. I'm gonna be on edge the next few days thinking every thump or knock is them when its actually my babysister making noise XD One last thing. Okay so I'm like the only animal lover who has fish of my friends and I was talking to them about the shrimp and almost all of them commented something which all pointed toward the type of shrimp you eat. And I was like "OMG you are not eating my shrimp. Their not even get big enough to enjoy. Their meant for keeping tanks clean not eating anyway" anyone else have people say that when you mention shrimp?


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## Sadist

They say that about my fish >.< When I mentioned crayfish, those were also compared to food. I stopped letting it bother me. People without pet fish just won't understand. At least no one's wanted to eat my snails yet.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I know no one said anything about my snails. When I say nerites they ask what they are but nothing about eating them. After a while I think I'll get used to it. But as of right now I just want to pop with on the head for thinking it. I kind of expected it from my one friend Kaitlin though. Every time I mention my fish shes always mentioning something about eating fish or something. Shes just that big of a goofball. I know shes not serious though


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## Sadist

Did a big 35% water change on the 10 gallon after last week being too sick to do a water change. Crossed fingers everyone survives. So far, everyone's behavior is normal. One oto looks like he isn't eating the supplements any more. The others are still nice and fat. I lost a few over the last few months, and I think I won't get any more. Like the guppies, I'll just let them live out their last months in peace and then figure out what to do from there.

I tried to replant some of the plants in the 10 gallon. Most of them are still where I put them even with most of their roots gone. I did see Tiger Jr hunting gammarus shrip through the gravel. I wish the bigger fish would do so, too! Maybe I'll get some ghost shrimp after all. I think they're quick enough to get away from Tiger if they need to.

We're out of milk and peanut butter. The world might end. Gotta get to the store while I can!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I love my ghost shrimp. Their pretty fast when they need to be. I have hard times trying to net those buggers. I've learned to put my hand over the net when taking it out of the water those jerks jump


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## Sadist

They do! One time, when I brought new ones home, I thought I'd try to pour them into the net instead of net them in the store bag (after all the acclimation stuff). One jumped right into the drain! It was on the edge, so I managed to catch him. He may have become a snack to the others, not sure how long he survived.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I never had trouble before and then one jumped out of the net and hit my on the chest and I freaked XD I had a hard time finding it afterwards. And right now I'm so excited! The tracking said my snail and shrimp are out for delivery! So they should be here today! I'm like so excited right now XD. Perfect day for delivery 54 F outside. It drops a bit wednesday


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## Sadist

How exciting! I hope everyone arrives safely!


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## AccaliaJay

I do to.


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## Sadist

Tiger. You can see what the plants are like behind him.


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## AccaliaJay

What's that mossy thing behind him?


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## Sadist

It's a hide. The crayfish really like it. It's pretty much 3 tubes siloconed toegher (like mamaJ's shrimp hide) but bigger and with fake moss on it.

Got a picture of baby crayfish, too.


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## AccaliaJay

Aww so cute XD okay so they came question though the assassin snail is like three times smaller than my nerites. Think it would kill them if their in the same tank


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## Sadist

Assassin snails supposedly move faster than other kinds. It would certainly try I think. It will likely go after the smaller snails first (pond snails if there are any).

It was my daughter's first time feeding them frozen food today. She got really excited about being so close to the fish. I've let her do pellets before because her little fingers can do portions really well. I had to help her be careful with frozen stuff because she was trying to point to fallen food with the toothpick instead of letting the fish chase things (with the guppies, they only really eat one shrimp each, and the rest fall down for the bottom feeders).


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## AccaliaJay

Okay I'll just put it in the newer all male guppy tank with the cherry shrimp hopefully it will go after the flakes and pellets not the shrimp until I move my nerites out of the ten which will probably be tomorrow. Trying to acclimate while doing chores is to much lol


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## Sadist

Haha, yeah.


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## AccaliaJay

Assassin snail already going around the tank I dropped in a shrimp pellet hoping he would be interested in it while the shrimp are getting prepped and I have no clue how ima do them cause they came in a bag with java moss and there's even a baby


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## Sadist

Good luck! In the scheme of assassin snail vs shrimp, I think it's more likely that the shrimp will pick on the snail than the snail try to eat the shrimp.


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## AccaliaJay

Okay I know I may regret it but I have to so I'm gonna just dump the shrimp plus their water in the tank. My net is to big and my dad said to pour them in a styrofoam cup and poke holes in the bottom and drain the water like that but I'm worried about the baby shrimp I seen in there the baby was really tiny. Let's just pray the water is not going to bring in a disease.


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## Sadist

Good luck! I hope it goes well for you!

My birthday is coming up soon. Should I ask for some blue shrimp for the tank? Hrm.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Good luck! I hope it goes well for you!
> 
> My birthday is coming up soon. Should I ask for some blue shrimp for the tank? Hrm.


I would!

:lol:


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## Sadist

I joined crazy fish people group on facebook. I get to look at everyone else's fish there!


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## SydneyA

Maybe I will look for crazy fish people. I left the big betta group. We had different views, lol. I think blue shrimp are an excellent birthday gift.


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## ThatFishThough

LOL. I asked for a new betta, money, and different colored shrimp for my b-day. I just got odd looks and money. XD


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## Sadist

The hubby hates the fish and fish tanks, though. New shrimp mean cholla wood and shrimp hides because I don't have enough hides for shrimp and the crayfish at the same time right now. I may just go get a handful of ghost shrimp to see how the crayfish do with shrimp. It would suck to spend $30 on special shrimp to have the crayfish eat them.


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## Sadist

I just transferred some money to my paypal so I can get

1) cholla wood and 10 blue shrimp

or

2) plants and live food cultures and 6 dario dario

I'm leaning towards the shrimp right now even though they're a bit more expensive. I have the two guppies for top feeders, and they might be enough to make the dario dario's hide all the time in fright.


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## BettaSplendid

My crays never did a thing to the ghost shrimp. Granted your blue shrimp will likely be a fourth of an inch when they first arrive...


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## SydneyA

Sadist said:


> The hubby hates the fish and fish tanks, though. New shrimp mean cholla wood and shrimp hides because I don't have enough hides for shrimp and the crayfish at the same time right now. I may just go get a handful of ghost shrimp to see how the crayfish do with shrimp. It would suck to spend $30 on special shrimp to have the crayfish eat them.



My Hubby is not a huge fan. He did say it could be worse. He said no more tanks since they are taking over the house :/


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## ThatFishThough

Lol yes. Same with my parents.


I have decided to be a hermit, living at the bottom of a huge aquarium filled with beautiful fishes.


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## themamaj

My crays have done fine with shrimp but good plan to try ghost first


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## BettaSplendid

Of course though...most ghost shrimp are wild caught and they might have diseases to pass on to the blue shrimp. I worry about stuff like that. Shrimp can have some nasty diseases.


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## Sadist

I'm leaning towards the dario dario now. I think my whole transfer will probably be spent on plants and cholla wood to fill up the tank and make it more animal friendly. Hehe, the best plans always cost 3 times more than expected when it comes to aquariums!


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## SydneyA

Sadist said:


> I'm leaning towards the dario dario now. I think my whole transfer will probably be spent on plants and cholla wood to fill up the tank and make it more animal friendly. Hehe, the best plans always cost 3 times more than expected when it comes to aquariums!


I end up spending so much! So I feel guilty, yet can't wait for FedEx, lol. I just got another fluval aquarium.


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## Sadist

Some fish pics. Everyone's got their "I love bloodworm" bellies going on.

If you look back at the first pages (edit: page 8), you can compare and see how many plants are uprooted.


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## BettaSplendid

Tequila is so handsome. 

The crypts are so easy to destroy. Cories and crypts? Pssssh, hahahaha, nope. If food falls onto them, here comes some busy little noses to uproot them. Even gravel around them does not help. Maybe a boulder...

And fish are SO expensive! Well, not the fish itself...but all the _everything_ else that goes with them. Who woulda thunk?


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## Sadist

Don't we know it. I originally bought a plain 10 gallon with a filter and heater and thought that's all we needed. I'd seen one in a bowl where half the water had evaporated because they hadn't done any water changes for a long time. Surely, a nice 10 gallon tank would be such a huge upgrade? Well. 

My crypts were doing so well. I'd had them in there for 10 months, and all they had done was grown and grown! I'm still not sure if the gammarus shrimp are eating the roots or the crayfish are uprooting them while hunting for shrimp.

Camera is recharging, so I can't get pictures. I'm feeling good today, so I did all the car errands that are 3 weeks too late. While I was out, I treated myself to 4 new java fern wendelov, some rocks, a new bottle of prime because I might only have one or two months worth left in the old one (eyeroll). I tied the new java ferns to the new rocks and sunk them down into some bare areas. One got planted a little because I didn't have the string on right. I also moved over half of Tequila's java moss to fill up some other open areas and moved some of the 10 gallon's java moss on top of the sunken breeding net. I didn't find any good wood (oh my, how dirty that sounds!), though I want something to put in front of the heater and attach plants to. I might buy some with whatever fish I choose and have it all shipped out together.

I also looked for pink bettas. There was one pinkish dude, but he had bit his fins and looked like fin rot was starting up. I pointed it out to the employee, and she took him to the back for his meth bath. I did see some ee geno fish that looked pinkish, but they also had some pale blue on the fins. I had no idea how that would color up with warm water, so I left them. There were a few cute females Sky's size that were friendly, but they were all red or blue or wild and not prone to floofy tails.


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## BettaSplendid

Thanks for looking! I hope there is no reason to rush.

Ooooo...new plants. Windelov look so gorgeous when they have that poofy little staghorn fern shape.

It must be fun betta shopping for someone else. The thrill of the hunt and purchase without the guilt and looming threat of divorce.

Hey, that could be my new siggy! Since I found both the Poopers (Nerites).


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## Sadist

Haha, go for it!

I didn't find a pink guy at Petco, but there was a gorgeous double tail black and red butterfly. He was slightly spoon-headed but only a little bit. If I was more experienced with shipping, I would have shopped him for someone else! There was a nice copper boy, too, one of those with the slight purplish iridescence on the caudal and otherwise silvery.

There were three kings, one wild, one turquoise with red wash, and one royal blue with red wash. All plakat kings. I almost brought home the blue guy; he was the most responsive. I'm pretty sure the hubby would have noticed a giant blue fish, though, especially if it was ripping the guppies into pieces and scattering expensive crayfish parts around the tank. Maybe. I could still get the black and red double tail and have it do the same thing. Ugg.


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## Sadist

Got an email saying the prescription is due to mail out on 11/30/0002. Umm. I wasn't quite born _that_ long ago.


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## Sadist

I did the math on the fish vs shrimp. I didn't quite transfer enough money unless tax comes out to $4 or less.

Fish + shipping bags (so I can do rescue and ship out!) + wood =

same as shrimp + wood. Both $52 + tax. I had $6 left over from last purchases. If I get the fish, I can either get the breather bags or save that bit of money for a live food culture. I think I'll just transfer a little more over next month, get the food culture set up, then make the animal purchase. 

Here's with the new plants. Hard to see them all. The wood will go in the middle with some of the current java moss attached to it. I might move some forward onto the rock and snail shell area, too.


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## VillagerSparky

Is that shell slightly to the left a live snail, or just a shell for decoration?


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## Sadist

He used to be a live snail, but now it's just a decoration. I moved him here after a betta picked on him too much. He was regrowing his sticking-out parts, then died. I'm not sure if a crayfish got him and didn't eat him or what. I got a random outbreak of pond snails a week after that, too.


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## VillagerSparky

Man, that was one large snail, I'm guessing it was an MTS?


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## Sadist

It was an assassin snail, the kind you get to eat pest snails. I'm afraid to get another since I don't know exactly what killed this one. I've been squishing the pest snails when I see them and letting the fish and gammarus shrimp eat them.


----------



## VillagerSparky

Ah, the good old Assassin Snails with the pretty shells. I would love to get a few but I have some MTS, so I'm not risking it.


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## Sadist

They stick out a lot of squishy parts, which were too exciting for the baby betta to not pick at. Her tank is so jungly, that I didn't even see any problem until the snail was at the front and only had a foot for squishy bits.


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## BettaSplendid

Poor Spiral.


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## Sadist

I feel bad for him. I have a ton of baby pond/bladder snails creeping forth from the gravel again. I've read that they'll breed even without enough food, just making ammonia spikes.

I read up a bit on cpo's, and Tigress's behavior looked a lot like egg-laying. They usually hide and do that at night (lay on their back in a U shape, lay the eggs and squirt mucous on everything to keep it safe and adhere it to her swimmer things). I'm so scientific. I'm not sure why her head plate was coming off after she died or why Tiger ripped some of her legs off and mated during everything.

I got Sky to flare at a piece of poptart today. It was 3 times her size, but she still stuck her gills out and held her ground. Probably not community tank material  Ramsy is doing a great job of cleaning algae from her glass and the plant roots. I wish I had a ramshorn for every tank instead of the snails I have! 

I've noticed that Mrs. Fish seems to be missing a few ray extensions in her anal fin. Maybe what I thought was brown algae on the sand is water-logged poop. She has been resting on the sand as well as the leaves lately. I've been making the effort the past few days to get in the plant areas with the baster and remove it.

10 gallon is doing great. The guppies appear to be trying to hunt gammarus shrimp. I've seen Tiger snap at them a few times, but he hasn't caught any while I was watching. Jr is hiding, and I'm assuming he's molting. Apparently, they molt a lot while little. All that growing.


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## BettaSplendid

ROFL. Poptarts. You have to watch poptarts, they'll attack as soon as you turn your back. She was right to be suspicious.

Poptart would be a really cute betta name.


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## Sadist

I was so surprised she held her ground. Even as aggressive as she is, Mrs. Fish zipped away and hid in a plant when she saw it. Then again, it took me forever to get Mrs. Fish to not be afraid of me on the other side of the glass.


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## themamaj

I have worked too much this week, feeling out of the loop playing catch up reading. Tequilla is so beautiful! He is really doing well. Sorry you have not been feeling well. Hope meds help and better soon! Sky and Poptart! So funny. Cracks me up at things they get flared up about. Hmm it that icing I see?? Yes Poptart would be cute name! May have to remember that one. 

Are you planning on trying to do more rescues and ship? How much are bags and shipping equipment? 

Dario dario...are you talking about Scarlet Badis? Are you doing a separate tank for them or with other fish?


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## AccaliaJay

My assassin snail and cherry shrimp are doing okay so far. I have a nasty cold. I counted 5. Although when they were in the cup I seen one baby but I canno find it.. Wonder if something happened to it or it's just hiding among the messy java moss. That java moss is annoying me.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> I have worked too much this week, feeling out of the loop playing catch up reading. Tequilla is so beautiful! He is really doing well. Sorry you have not been feeling well. Hope meds help and better soon! Sky and Poptart! So funny. Cracks me up at things they get flared up about. Hmm it that icing I see?? Yes Poptart would be cute name! May have to remember that one.
> 
> Are you planning on trying to do more rescues and ship? How much are bags and shipping equipment?
> 
> Dario dario...are you talking about Scarlet Badis? Are you doing a separate tank for them or with other fish?


Yes, Scarlet Badis. I was going to stick them in with the guppies since there's a nice colony of gammarus shrimp in there to snack on.

The cheapest I've seen the bags are $6 for 10. I don't remember the heat pack prices, but I would feel funny not having a heat pack in even with spring temperatures.

I'd like to keep rescuing (or buying and rehoming), but it's a bit difficult with the housing. I decided that Tequila looks too old to ship and decided to keep him. That leaves us with an extra tank running that we were going to put away. I could do that breeding trap in a bigger tank trick, but that runs risk of spreading disease. In the summer, our house gets warm enough that I could keep a few in jars for a week or so as long as they're healthy to begin with.



AccaliaJay said:


> My assassin snail and cherry shrimp are doing okay so far. I have a nasty cold. I counted 5. Although when they were in the cup I seen one baby but I canno find it.. Wonder if something happened to it or it's just hiding among the messy java moss. That java moss is annoying me.


That messy moss is probably the only think keeping the baby from being eaten! It's good it's hiding. I'm sure something in your tank would love a shrimplet snack.

I hope you get to feeling better soon!


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## Sadist

The money transfer finally went through to paypal. It's so hard not to go buy my fish right this instant!


----------



## themamaj

You have great self control. Love to see new fish when you get them. Where are you ordering from?


----------



## Sadist

I'm using AquaticArts. They seem to really care for their animals -- they even put a heat pack in with an all plant order!

I tried to pet Sky at breakfast time. She bit me! Hehe, cheeky girl.


----------



## AccaliaJay

After my experience with aquatic arts I have to agree. They packed it awesomely.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I'm using AquaticArts. They seem to really care for their animals -- they even put a heat pack in with an all plant order!
> 
> I tried to pet Sky at breakfast time. She bit me! Hehe, cheeky girl.


That Sky has been watching Mrs Fish sounds like. These funny girls!


----------



## Sadist

So much for peaceful females. Mrs. Fish gets very fight-y when she sees the guppies two feet away from her. She doesn't flare, just starts pacing aggressively, ready to take those guys out if they venture to her area.


----------



## BettaSplendid

She'll give me nightmares! The crowntails are always the feisty ones! And the females the energetic ones. She's double trouble!


----------



## themamaj

Boy that is the truth about energetic feisty crowntails! Sassafrass keeps jumping so high for food when open lid, I have to be really careful she doesn't jump out with all that enthusiasm. She shakes those little spikes like no other. 

Mrs Fish makes me smile to think about. Guppies, Poptarts no problem, you are protected! lol


----------



## Sadist

Tiger, Jr came out of hiding yesterday! (S)He's 2 full cm now if you include the claws. I got some crumby, blurry pictures yesterday, but I managed to get a nice close up this morning.

Bonus, daughter turning her dolls into monsters to battle against her other toys.


----------



## themamaj

Tiger Jr is such a vivid orange! Great picture. 

Funny on daughter. Has she put makeup on dolls?


----------



## Sadist

She took them outside and colored them with sidewalk chalk.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> She took them outside and colored them with sidewalk chalk.


LOL! Owned.


----------



## Sadist

I don't mind. It washes off pretty easily. I even went out and helped.

Hubby took us to The Pottery Place for our anniversary. You buy a piece of plain pottery and rent their equipment to paint it, then pick it up a week later after they've glazed and fired it. I can't wait to see how our things turned out!


----------



## BettaSplendid

Aaaw, that is sweet! I want to use a pottery wheel!


----------



## themamaj

Haha very creative


----------



## Sadist

Fed everyone this morning. Super busy, just got to breakfast. I still have to do water changes on everyone, then the store. Then, I'm trying out a "healthy cookie" recipe. I'm going to assume they will taste like paste-covered cardboard so I'm not too disappointed in the how they turn out.


----------



## Sadist

Sent the hubby my upcoming plans and prices of everything I want to do to the 10 gallon. I'm going to blow a fuse waiting for his reply!

I think I'll save the cookie recipe for tomorrow. I plan on doing a lot of prep for making dinner in the slow cooker because of swimming after school. I usually end up warming up leftovers or doing some quick microwave meal, and I'd like to get away from that while we start our new diet.


----------



## Sadist

Thankfully, the black and red butterfly was gone today. I'm hoping he went to a good home. The 3 kings were still there. I felt so bad for them, all clamped up and squished into those containers.


----------



## BettaSplendid

They really need bigger cups for giants. It is bad enough for tiny younge betta to be in those cups...


----------



## AccaliaJay

I wish I could give home to a new betta... However its a guppy overload for me! Not kidding one of my females had more babies. On the other side I was thinking about starting up a journal since I'm having way to much luck on guppy breeding. Atleast then I should be able to keep up with remembering when the last ones were born XD By the way Sadist I found that cherry shrimp baby! Its so freaking tiny barely any red XD


----------



## Sadist

Awesome about the shrimp! Haha, well if you can't sell the guppies, and they don't eat the babies enough, you really should finagle a 50 gallon tank out of the deal!

Had a salad for breakfast. My body thinks I had a piece of air for breakfast. I hate diets.


----------



## OUOhYeah2016

I had the same thoughts when I went back to my petsmart hoping that one girl I wanted was still there. She wasn't (I hope she went to a good home) but there's this little white EEHM that's been there for at least a couple months... I just want to take him home but I'm starting that sorority and I currently have two imports I'm fish sitting so I really don't have the space right now.

Also I feel the diet pain... lol I don't think my body would ever run on a salad for breakfast.


----------



## Sadist

I should have put some eggs on it, but I didn't feel like waiting for them to cook. Haha! Spinach and olives with home-made dressing just doesn't have the same volume (or taste!) as a pack of poptarts.

I'm working on the healthy cookie recipe right now! From the smell and taste of the batter, I think it'll be like a crunchy smoothie or something.

I approached Sky's tank too quickly, and she zoomed out flaring just like Mrs. Fish! I was so tickled.

The little black crowntail girl was still there today, OUOhYeah. She was less perky today than last week when I first saw her. There was also a yellow halfmoon girl that looked like she could actually get a 180 spread. I'm sorry I can't get pictures like Lil does. I still have an old-fashioned camera with the flip-open view screen, and my phone is so old that I don't have a wire that will connect it to the computer to upload images (and no internet on it, and the tiny bit of space on it is full of pictures of my daughter on the swing).

I forgot to add that the daughter expressed more interest in getting more guppies instead of branching into dario darios. I looked at the females today, but over half of them were dead (and still in the tank), and there were a bunch of fry swimming around with them. I decided to pass on livestock, but I did buy some java fern thin.

PS the cookies are passable as a smoothie but not cookies. Plus, the inside wasn't cooked all the way. I'll have the next tray cook longer. At least I used chocolate chips instead of raisins.


----------



## Sadist

I went ahead and took care of the first tray of cookies. I baked the second tray longer, and have the last one in there. Next time, I'll make them smaller and see if that helps. I might also ground the oats down to powder. The recipe didn't say what kind of oats, just 2 cups of them. I used rolled oats because that's what was in the pantry.


----------



## AccaliaJay

There's no room in my room for a fifty gallon. Probably enough for a 20 gallon. Today's tank cleaning day I'll probably do my moms to and get some pictures.


----------



## Sadist

10 gallon is the biggest we can fit in here. At least without branching out and having tanks in the living room and dining room. The hubby would burst a blood vessel!


----------



## AccaliaJay

I don't think my moms cleaned her tank since she got it omg that was so much poo. This is the best I could do but it's several times better than it was. It got really bad when the fish knock the filter off I would show you a pick of what it looks like but it's so gross


----------



## Sadist

Wow, pretty gross. I tried to explain filters and such to someone, and they said, "I thought the filter meant you didn't have to clean it!" Ugg.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol I plan on doing my ten gallon where all the female/fry guppies are it's cloudy just need to get the energy. I wonder if my dad will notice that I cleaned my moms tank. I'm gonna see how long it takes for him to notice after he gets home. My mom also said she would pay me for doing it doubt she'll remember to though.


----------



## Sadist

Good luck!


----------



## AccaliaJay

Thanks hopefully I don't suck up and babies


----------



## AccaliaJay

Oh and by the way here's a pic of a male I have named Fino I find it weird he's never really around the other males and his tail looks like it's gonna be red and not black like all the others.. It's confusing


----------



## AccaliaJay

Four hours to do my tank. Lol it's hard cause the guppies swarm my hand when I stick it in there.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I don't mind. It washes off pretty easily. I even went out and helped.
> 
> Hubby took us to The Pottery Place for our anniversary. You buy a piece of plain pottery and rent their equipment to paint it, then pick it up a week later after they've glazed and fired it. I can't wait to see how our things turned out!


How fun! I would love to do something like that. Love to see a picture when you get it back.


----------



## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Oh and by the way here's a pic of a male I have named Fino I find it weird he's never really around the other males and his tail looks like it's gonna be red and not black like all the others.. It's confusing


Pretty boy!! Love color


----------



## themamaj

I admire you trying to eat healthier. I so need to start. I struggle with too many convenience meals as always on the go. I stopped by this new place in town the other day called the Juice Bar. They had all kinds of smoothie drinks. I got a green one that has all the veggies in it but also mixed with fruit. I was pleasantly surprised it was very good once I got past the color of it. haha Let me know if you get a good tasting cookie recipe.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Thank you he is pretty XD


----------



## Sadist

They had Muffins for Moms at daughter's school today. I blew eating healthy out of the water.

If you don't mind your cookies tasting like smoothies, the recipe I found is decent. They are a bit addicting, maybe because I used chocolate chips instead of raisins.

Healthy Cookies
3 Mashed Bananas (ripe)
1/3 c Applesauce
2 c oats
1/4 c Almond Milk
1/2 c Raisans or dark chocolate chips
1 tsp Vanilla
1 tsp Cinnamon
Preheat oven to 350. Bake for 15-20 minutes! Yummy! 
To save this recipe, click SHARE!

With all the banana in them, they really just taste like smoothies to me. I'll also note that I used rolled oats, which kind of absorbed some of the moisture and got mushy inside them. The banana is mushy even after baking, too. The whole things were yucky as a cookie idea, but good for a hand-held smoothie.


----------



## Sadist

I tried to convince the hubby to have a pet fish since I keep seeing that little black crowntail while looking for pink fish. He told me he doesn't need a pet fish but that I could get a mean fish and have it eat everything. Hehe.

Healthy breakfast was blown by the Muffins with Mom event, so I worked on getting some more of those poptarts gone from the house so we can eat right :lol: I'm making up for it by having a spinach salad and some roasted zucchini. I saved a slice of zucchini for the otos - it's cooling off from its parcook in the microwave. I put ham and ranch on the salad to give it more flavor today and some parmesan cheese on the roasted stuff.


----------



## Sadist

Okay, the zucchini came out really well. I'm surprised. I put an overly large amount of olive oil, salt and pepper, as well as the parmesan cheese and roasted. It started out on the convection oven 400F for a bit until the cheese browned. I switched to normal oven 350 for another bit until they looked more cooked. The thicker ones were a bit mushy, but thin ones had so much pepper and salty flavors that it didn't taste like dead green stuff. I told the hubby I would fix some with dinner and make him and the kiddo try it.

Jr and Tiger both got into the oto's zucchini slice. The otos got scared of it and are hiding. :lol:

Well, after the hubby's declaration on getting another aggressive fish, I'm torn on what to do with the tank. I went ahead and ordered a clip-on lamp instead of finnex stingray. Saving $$. I'm not sure if I want to get the little black crowntail girl, a pastel halfmoon girl, the royal blue giant, or stick with my shrimp and dario dario + guppies plan. I really really want to do something today! but need to wait and plan and stuff first :-?


----------



## Sadist

I've also been toying with the idea of a dwarf gourami for a while. I love the stripes.

I see lots of gammarus shrimp on the zucchini slice.

I ordered some spirulina powder and am asking aquabid sellers about their daphnia. I'd love to see something hunting them through the tank!


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## themamaj

Zucchini sounds yummy. Have great recipe for zucchini bread but probably not healthy but sure is good! May have to try cookie recipe!

Aww muffins with moms how sweet! We do that for parents in our preschool Sunday School about once a year. Always a favorite for everone.


----------



## ThatFishThough

Do a sorority.


----------



## Sadist

What do you guys think?

1) yellow halfmoon girl
2) pastel halfmoon girl
3) black crowntail girl
4) royal blue king
5) marble baby
6) butterfly baby
7) dwarf gourami


----------



## Sadist

Haha, I thought of the sorority, but I don't have enough plants that will stay alive in there. The plant eaters won't eat java fern, and I've been buying up all of those plants whenever they're in stock.


----------



## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Zucchini sounds yummy. Have great recipe for zucchini bread but probably not healthy but sure is good! May have to try cookie recipe!
> 
> Aww muffins with moms how sweet! We do that for parents in our preschool Sunday School about once a year. Always a favorite for everone.


Daddy forgot about doughnuts for dads day, so I had to make sure and make it to muffins for moms.


----------



## Sadist

Well, I felt too sorry for this big boy. He seems to be ignoring the guppies, though he did attack a plant and hunt some gammarus shrimp. Sorry for the lame pictures; gotta get to the school and pick up my pet human!


----------



## ThatFishThough

Sadist; I don't have my tank very heavily planted. With 9 girls, they seem to be doing okay.

Hehe, I might have to look at that Black CT girl. >3


----------



## Sadist

I can't take pictures unless I buy her and bring her home! I could do that and put her in a breeder trap.

Poor new boy didn't know what a blood worm is. I wish I had captured the event on camera! Poor daughter wanted a guppy with pink dots (because black dots are boring).

Tequila enjoyed his bloodworms. I'm not sure if he's just old or has parasites, but he's still skinny, side to side, with a swollen swim bladder even after all these weeks of good food. I'm thinking he's just old, but I might run a few days of paraguard just in case. I thought I'd done that when I bought him, but now I don't remember!


----------



## BettaSplendid

Oooooh, your giant is handsome! I couldn't decide who to vote for. They ALL sounded good. I am soooo interested in gouramis.  I wonder if they're as interactive as betta? Giant is just going to stay busy hunting. 

And now I am hungry! That zuchinni sounds deeeeelicious!


----------



## Sadist

He's a gentle giant of a fish. Except for the gammarus shrimp, those suckers gotta go! He sleeps funny. His caudal was on a leaf with the rest of him just hanging down in the middle of nowhere.

The daughter has named him Blackie Chat. 

The guppies are oblivious to him, still trying to fertilize each other. I probably will bring home healthy males, 1 at a time, if I can find them. Hard to order online, they always come as a male/female pairing or a trio.


----------



## Sadist

I'm thinking of bringing home healthy female guppies, too. Extra snacks when they have babies!

I have a different thread with questions about a daphnia culture, too.

Blackie Chat still seems like a mellow sort of boy. He and Tiger don't get along too well. They seem to like hunting gammarus shrimp in the same area. I wonder if they hear them, like birds hunting bugs and worms in the dirt. He has approached but not flared or nipped at the guppies. He seems really small for a king to me. His body doesn't seem to be that much bigger than Tequila's in length. I'm guessing he's young.

I still wish I had more plants growing well in there. I would totally have started a sorority. I guess it's better this way; if the sorority girls didn't get along, I wouldn't have anywhere to put them. The hubby is all for aggressive fish killing each other, but he thinks they're gross when they eat their fry. At least eating the fry doesn't cause hidden spikes in water parameters like a dead body part hiding behind a plant!


----------



## Sadist

I've decided to postpone shrimp and dario dario for a while. I'm going to order the shipping bags, but I'm torn on buying the wood pieces. I think I'll save the money for more plants.

My new lamp, extra paraguard, and spirulina should arrive tomorrow. I hope I'm able to clip the lamp on easily. I'll have to get some more daylight bulbs since the hubby put the last one in the living room ceiling fan light.


----------



## Sadist

Okay, a parenting fail happened yesterday. I forgot her bag of washable stamps also has crayons in it. At least the paint is scrubbable! We let her put stickers all over in there, so it's not like the paint job isn't already ruined anyways. It's kind of cute in there, now.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Her little people are too cute! I am assuming that is her room. I like it. Now, in the living room, not so much.


----------



## Sadist

Yes, it's her room. We have a few stickers in the public areas, too, but not like her room. I washed some of the people just to make sure it could be done, and I think I'll let her do the rest when she wants to redecorate as a teen.


----------



## Sadist

Blackie Chat (Blackiechat? I'm still not sure what she meant with the strange name) is still chill with the guppies and hunting the bottom of the tank. He and Tiger still aren't getting along the greatest, but I've seen no actual fighting. He approaches the guppies but doesn't chase them, flare, or attack. He seems to really love swimming around, though, and being a pk, he can handle the filter flow. He understand that I'm food and comes over for feeding time, now. He even flirted with my finger a little. I didn't try to pet him since my hands were covered in the daughter's lotion.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Gentle giant.  I wonder if he'll make giant bubble nests?


----------



## Sadist

Maybe! He hung out at the feeding corner a long time today, begging for more food. I fed him three times as much as the other bettas, and his belly never got rounded. I stopped there so I wouldn't give him digestive issues. It's a learning experience! The guppies just zipped around him, eating the crumbs.

I see Jr again! He looks even bigger than last time I saw him up close. He's been mostly hiding since Blackiechat came home. Wow, he's a full inch from his tail to his claws! Amazing growth!


----------



## Sadist

Blackiechat gently took each bite from the toothpick. The two guppies swarmed around him, eating crumbs. Mrs. Fish ferociously attacked the food as it fell from the toothpick. Tequila gently took the food from the toothpick. Sky leaped out of the water and attacked the toothpick, making the food fall into the water and beaching herself on some plants. I need to find a different way to feed her.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Son absolutely loved hearing about how each of your bettas eat differently. LOL. He can appreciate it, having a female himself whom he trained to jump and bite his finger.


----------



## AccaliaJay

That was weird. I skipped morning feeding. I dropped food in the female and fry tank and bam one of the females went crazy and ate like several fry 0.0 and she still ate food from the top. How much food can she hold lol btw does anyone know how to sex male and female sakura cherry shrimp?


----------



## Sadist

Silly guppy got carried away! Wow, I'm not sure how much they can eat, but I bet she'll be feeling all that food later today!

I read http://fish-etc.com/knowledge/spirulina-why-you-should-feed-fish this article about spirulina today since I bought some. I put some in my smoothie yesterday, and the hubby was afraid to try it. It's super dark! I was planning on doing a daphnia culture with this stuff as the food. I'm sure it would make the fish happier and healthier!

Silly Sky, I managed to get the food in the water before she could jump. She had to swim all over and get the shrimps. Blackiechat wouldn't swim after fallen shrimp, so I had to feed him one by one instead of bite by bite. There are quite a few mysis shrimp down in the crayfish feeding area. Mrs. Fish got impatient and flared at me. Silly girl. Tequila quietly took his shrimp and wiggled around begging for more. His belly was bulging quite a bit, so I stopped there. The guppies swarmed around. At one point, they both chose the same shrimp and had to tug it about. Ahh, now Blackiechat has found the extra shrimp in the gravel and is cleaning up a bit. I hope he leaves a couple for Tiger and Jr.


----------



## themamaj

It's funny you almost have to train them to eat frozen food. I also feed with toothpicks. I put some daphnia in with koi boy and he just looked at me like what in the world did you just put in my tank. Once he got brave enough to try eating it off bottom he was all about it. It is interesting how each fish have their own preferences on eating. Blackiechat sounds like he likes the pampering


----------



## Sadist

Now that he knows I'm the food bringer, he's super sweet, like a mellow lab. I think I could probably pet him, and I might try next feeding time if I don't have yucky stuff on my hands.

I first trained frozen food with my fingers, but that just turned everyone into "hands = food" fish, and they started attacking me when I was planting things or doing water changes.

I wouldn't mind Sky jumping too much, but she's gotten used to eating in the corner. I feel like there's too much risk for her to jump near the corner where she could fall out if her angle is bad. I do have the water level lowered, but you know how bettas are. A determined betta can jump out of a dime-sized hole filled with wires.

I was sick all weekend and barely had enough energy to top off the tanks today. Had to do groceries and such, too. 

Good news is I weighed myself Saturday, and I'd lost a few pounds! Every bit counts. All it takes it switching one meal to all fruits or all veggies! I bought more zucchini today, and I'll try to make some with dinner tonight and get everyone else to try it. It just needs just enough parmesan to make a salty crust on top, and then they taste like chips! I also don't measure my oil, so it probably has too much on it. Healthy olive oil, though!


----------



## Sadist

I've been doing bath crayon pictures of the fish and their conversations, so I spent some of my resting time making one on paper. Guess which one this is!


----------



## themamaj

Looks like Mrs Fish! Cute picture! !


----------



## Sadist

Hehe, it's supposed to be Sky jumping out of the water. She and Mrs. Fish are both blue crowntails, though. Aggressive little things, too!

And my mini-me cutting box tops for her school.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sky is scary too though! I love how you drew the crown points. They're like reaching out little death rays.

Blackiechat is a Giant Love Plakat. :heart:


----------



## SydneyA

I like how you color during resting time. Cute picture. Get an axolotl! Tell hubby they have to be kept separate or they eat each other's appendages if he likes violent fish


----------



## Sadist

I'd really love one. I sent him a picture to show him how cute they are, and he thought it looked like a Cthulhu monster with a goofy smile. I'm making him try zucchini tonight, so it'll take extra time to work him over. I think it took him 6 months to agree to the first fish.


----------



## SydneyA

I was told they inspired the first pokemon.


----------



## Sadist

Haha!


----------



## AccaliaJay

I skipped morning feeding a well just to be safe so I don't overfill that female. But I think she was still eating fry. My tank looks like it has alot less small fry in it kinda makes me sad. And I know how it feels to have fish swarming your hand. You would think guppies prefer to hide when your moving things around. Nope! Mine swarm and nibble I'm slowly getting used to it. Liberty hides from me any time I put my hand in there.


----------



## Sadist

My guppies aren't shy, either. It's all I can do to keep them from getting siphoned at water change or keep them from being planted into the gravel with a new plant. Silly little guys.


----------



## Sadist

Picture time! A few of Blackiechat. His face looks lighter today, and he didn't seem to eat much. He's still swimming a lot and super friendly. I need to figure out how to get him to move to better feeding spot. Yesterday, he ate at a spot with less current, but today he wanted to eat by the giant IAL I had shoved in a place with tons of current. He was hiding from the current in the leaf, but at the surface, everything was being swept away!

The picture with the stripe across him is a plant root. He doesn't have any visible striping!

Also, another guppy blur with Jr. parading at the bottom of the tank!


----------



## SydneyA

That is one gorgeous betta and lovely tanks. I love guppies.


----------



## Sadist

I love them, too. I'd like to get some females to make snacks for Blackiechat, but I'm having problems finding healthy ones!


----------



## Sadist

I saw some healthy female guppies at petsmart today, but there were also lots of fry and several dead adult females. I'm not sure if it's their parameters or what, but their male guppies are fine. I've concluded, after all of the female guppy deaths, and the death of my and several others' female dwarf crayfish, that being a woman is just plain hard!

There were several pinkish ee geno fish (but not really ee's) fish at petsmart, too. I don't really want to buy one if bettasplendid's daughter gets a gourami instead since I can only quarantine in a breeder box hanging in a tank right now. Plus, my daughter might love it, and then I'd be in a pickle of where to put him.

I'm still thinking about the axolotl. I found a new plug in my computer/fish room, but it's in a corner set up with my daughter's play stuff. I still have to work over the hubby about it, but this room gets enough sun that I probably can skip a light on that tank. Lots of anubias and some peace lillies/pothos vines should do the trick! 

Oh, I found peace lilly babies at Petco the other day! The roots seem to be not dirted, which I've read is a huge step towards using them riparium-style.

There were semi-aquatic crabs at Petsmart today, too. They were red. They were set up with just gravel that had water in it, but I'd love to have a tank with them! Unfortunately, that would mean half of the swimming area for fish so that one side would be above the water line.


----------



## LittleStar

Your fish are a rainbow of colors - so pretty!

I'll have to google the semi-aquatic crabs!


----------



## Sadist

I found a guide to crayfish as pets that I hadn't read before. https://www.reddit.com/r/Crayfish/comments/17y41s/the_essential_guide_to_keeping_crayfish_as_pets/

In it, it states:



> Iodine/Iodide
> The issue of iodine deficiency in crayfish is not often discussed. However, a crayfish deficient in iodine will often experience issues when molting. The easiest way to ensure that your crayfish has the iodine he needs is to purchase a bottle of Kent Marine Iodide (about 9 US dollars) and use one mL per 10 gallons. One bottle will last you quite a while. Do not use the dosage recommended on the bottle, as that dosage is intended for saltwater systems. Iodine is, however, essential for your crayfish's health, but in doses about 50% of those required by marine/reef systems.


I didn't think about iodine! I'm not sure if it's safe for the rest of the fish. It would explain the several deaths over the forums of dwarf crayfish during a molt.

Thanks, Littlestar! I love all of our fishy pets.

I really miss Violet, our first betta. I thought I was bringing home the purple one, but he ended up being blue (another blue crowntail, they must be my favorite!). He wouldn't let me pet him, but he would rest on my hand.

I just measured that corner, and it's big enough for a 30 gallon tank if I could find a good stand for it! Ugg. Must stop thinking about it!


----------



## BettaSplendid

About Blackiechat's food being swept away...my mom has a giant betta too and she took a disposable plastic coffee cup lid and cut the center section out, so it is just a ring, and feeds him inside the circle. It floats so should corral the food. Her guy goes to the circle when he anticipates food. I guess cutting the top part of a plastic Dixie cup would.work too, as a ring that would float, just put it in upside down so that the smooth part intended for human lips is what he would touch if he brushed against it.

I am shocked Daughter doesn't want a betta.


----------



## Sadist

The left side has a ton of floating plants, and those usually coral the food for him. He wanted to eat by the ial on the right side, so the food was all over the place! I think some of the problem is he's still settling in, too.

Well, probably out for the axolotl for a long time. I was price checking, and I'd probably spend $200 on the tank and equipment, with some sales prices taken off, before buying plants, plant light, and the pet. I might be able to knock the price down by buying the cheapo grit sand stuff that someone on the forum mentioned or just having plants tied to rocks and having just an inch of sand on the bottom to reduce glare.

http://www.amazon.com/Petco-Brookly...9866&sr=1-1&keywords=30+gallon+aquarium+stand This stand is on sale for $30 instead of the normal $50 on amazon right now. In case someone on her buys this type of stand. My daughter is in that awkward "trip over everything because I'm growing as fast as puberty" stage of being 5, so something like this is probably not doable, though it's the cheapest stand I've ever seen.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Tank prices are scary. I wish my parents would help me get a 20 gallon. I would totally go for selective breeding and selling then.


----------



## Sadist

My price total included petco's $1/gallon sale for only $30 for the tank. Filters, sand, and cooling fans added up.


----------



## Sadist

So funny, Tiger Jr, instead of darting away to hide, stood up to Blackiechat. Tiny claws waving around aggressively, while Blackiechat seemed more interested in seeing if I'd bring more food.

I put Sky's food in with a salvinia minima leaf in between it and her head today. She repeatedly jumped straight up in the air until several times. Finally, I pushed the food into the water, and she saw it and chased after it. Silly girl!


----------



## themamaj

Really good price on tank stand. Hard to find things that are sturdy, affordable, and can hold weight of tank and equipment. 

Blackiechat sounds like a man after my own heart...is there anything else to eat around here?

It is so funny how these sassy girls are the jumpers! I was feeding my sorority last night and was afraid Sassafrass was going to jump out of the tank before I could get food in for the others and then as you say pounces on it like prey. I am amazed they can jump as high as they can sometimes.


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## Sadist

If your daughter ever did swim lessons, it's just like the bobbing exercise, where they practice bobbing in and out of the water blowing bubbles. She was just doing that, looked like a little porpoise. They're so cute! Death spike little tail.


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## AccaliaJay

Dang that's a lot of money. And blackiechat sounds adorable.


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## Sadist

One of the big girl members has a post somewhere about cheaper sand. You just have to rinse it longer before you use it. I estimated the sand price at $44 for some eco-sand that was cheap on amazon with free shipping. It just needs a lot of sand to have enough for planting in a 30 gallon.

The otos are more active today. I wonder if Blackiechat is swimming too close to them and scaring them out of their normal hidey holes. Since I don't have a full colony of them any more, they hide all the time. They're still fat, so I know they're eating. The guppies chase them around a bit when they're out, too. And then go back to "Are you a girl?" - "No, are you a girl??" behavior.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol


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## Sadist

Updated 10 gallon. You can see one of the guppies, Blackiechat, and a crayfish kind of blurring in there. I mostly focused on the plants.


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## Sadist

My limited research in axolotl care:

http://www.axolotl.org/index.htm

and

http://www.buy-axolotls.com/

So from what I've read, you can have 2 of them together if they're adults. One site recommended against it if you aren't careful enough, and the other said they're social and need a partner or two as adults. They both recommend cooler water. One said a filter is good because of the same reasons they're good for bettas. The other said you don't need one as long as you do a huge water change every week.

I'm more inclined to go with the top website as being more accurate. I'm not sure why I'm bothering, though. I think the only chance I could get one is if I got rid of all of the other tanks and fish. I'm not inclined to give up my older pets, and I've put too much time and effort into the tanks and plants to give them up, too.


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## SydneyA

They are not social. More than one is only for our benefits. I'm sticking with one. 
http://www.amazon.com/Sanatop-Aquar...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A38LLVSYBAXQSI

These fans supposedly work. I ordered one so we shall see. Other than cool water, it's the same care as a fish tank (and no gravel).


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## 206Betta

Sadist said:


> Updated 10 gallon. You can see one of the guppies, Blackiechat, and a crayfish kind of blurring in there. I mostly focused on the plants.


Pretty nice looking tank. Your Windelov Java Fern looks really healthy. Hope mine can grow like that.


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## Sadist

SydneyA said:


> They are not social. More than one is only for our benefits. I'm sticking with one.
> http://www.amazon.com/Sanatop-Aquar...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A38LLVSYBAXQSI
> 
> These fans supposedly work. I ordered one so we shall see. Other than cool water, it's the same care as a fish tank (and no gravel).


Awesome, I'll check them out. I figured the first link had better care instructions.



206Betta said:


> Pretty nice looking tank. Your Windelov Java Fern looks really healthy. Hope mine can grow like that.


Thanks! All of those are newish plants, bought in the last month. Something uprooted my gorgeous jungle of crypts, but whatever it is doesn't seem to like java ferns.


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## themamaj

Tank looks great


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## Sadist

Thanks!

My daphnia culture is out for delivery! I'm so excited! I forgot to buy a bucket for it. Not sure if I should put it in a tank right away and have them all eaten before they multiply. Oops. I guess I can put them in my clean tank water bucket that I prepare for water changes and get a new bucket for that over the weekend. I really really hope the mail is delivered before I have to get the kiddo from school! I don't want my water bugs to languish in the post office all night.


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## BettaSplendid

Thanks for making me (LOL) look into Axolotls. >:/ They are too cute. Hopefully I will forget what I have seen. They look like the dragon Toothless off of How to Train your Dragon.

So the daphina comes already hatched, not eggs? I am so curious. Does it need an airstone to keep the water moving or it very simple? I like how you feed...live just seems so much better than frozen-and definitely better than pellets. My frightless floot floots  culture went kaput, I kinda somehow *forgot* about it. But mosquito larva season is gearing up. I am always wondering what to turn to in winter. Floot floots and daphnia might be good. I ordered that Bottom Bites insectivore food from Canada. Will certainly update when it arrives and how fishies do on it.


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## Sadist

Awesome! I mostly feed frozen stuff with pellets if the container isn't ready. My fly culture redo didn't work out, and the old one got yucky. At the same time, we had a house bloom of yes-wing fruit flies, so I threw them all out before I could be blamed for that. It was my fault, but it was actually the dirt in some plant pots. I bought "outside" dirt and was trying to sprout some ancient seeds in them. As soon as I moved the pots to the garage, the fruit flies mostly died off. I've since used the dirt on some onions that sprouted from the pantry. Daughter and I planted them in the front garden to see if they get flowers.

I haven't geared up for mosquito larvae. It might be illegal here. In fact, I've been trying to gear up for surrounding the house with anti-mosquito shrubs and plants since the daughter has such a bad skin reaction to their bites. She has eczema, and I don't want her to get in the habit of scratching too much. I've seen people who scratch too much at eczema, and they have weeping sores and such. She chews her nails, so I know she's likely to do something like that!

I probably won't get the axolotl :-( Too much money when I've already poured so much money into my fish. Maybe in a few years when my 5 gallon gals are gone from old age, I could start building a 30 gallon for an axolotl and sell the 5 gallons minus plants. All the work in the plants will not be given to someone else  Which means I'll have to get a good plant light on the axolotl tank and move the 5 gallon plants over, and then maybe I'll just have to buy a driftwood and some anubias to fill the rest of the tank. I'd be down to 1 cold tank and 1 warm tank that way, which might be doable on our electric bill.

I still want to betta shop for you, "the thrill of the hunt and purchase without the guilt and looming threat of divorce." Ha! I know you and your family need your time of mourning and want to pick your own pet.

Blackiechat finally got a slight rounding on his belly on bloodworm day today. He actually chased them around a bit and seemed excited. Mrs. Fish was very vigorous with her feeding, too. I managed to get Sky's food in the water before she attacked today. Sweet Tequila even shook the bloodworms about. I need to thin his salvinia so he can breath. The cloudy sunlight looks really pretty on him. He's like a sunset! Several thermometers were disturbed from their places over night, too. Silly guys. I've actually seen how they do it -- they swim between the glass and the thermometer and mess up the suction.


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## Sadist

I totally forgot to answer your question about daphnia.

The seller raises them in buckets of old, untreated tank water with no aeration. She stated that every one she added an air stone to didn't survive to make a proper culture. She feeds green water and yeast water (mix some yeast into old tank water and let sit for a few minutes, then pour into the bucket). I was going to feed mine spirulina to do the whole "feed them gut-loaded healthy stuff." I didn't think to ask about temperature; I'll have to look that up. I was originally going to put it in my big tank since it's a culture of 500 bugs. I might still do that and see if I just bought a super expensive snack for the guppies and king or if they can survive in the tank like that. It might have too much current; if they don't like air stones, the certainly won't like my high current for oto set up.


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## Sadist

They've arrived! They're so cute and tiny. I'm putting them in a jar for now.


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## BettaSplendid

Veeeery interesting. Do you know what their lifespan is and if they turn into anything? Or are they more like shrimp where they just grow bigger. I was wondering if they had like a larval stage or something that you need to use up before they hit a new stage.


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## themamaj

Wow all that is so interesting! Can't wait to hear how that goes. Maybe you will encourage me to be ambitious and try real food! 

Lol at thermometers. Mine will do that too and it drives me crazy. I will move it to a different location and they do it again. No doubt a great game for them. 

I don't think I had ever see an axolotl until you posted a picture on one. I went and read a bunch on them and watch some video because intriguing! I have raised salamanders before and saw they are actually of salamander classification. Then I read life expectancy is 10-15 years. I thought no better stick to bettas in case it outlived me haha.


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## Sadist

I think the daphnia just get bigger. I have about 10-20 that are about the size of gammarum/brine shrimp, maybe a tad smaller. There are hundreds that are just specks swimming around. I put two into the 10 gallon, but they managed to find hiding spots before the fish got there. They'll get eaten by something, I'm sure!

I mixed up sprirulena for them yesterday, and the jar really smells bad today. The smell doesn't carry at least. I used the tiniest pinch, and I think it may have been too much. There's still a little bit that sank down, but they still seem to be eating some.


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## SydneyA

Those are cool! I was considering wingless fruit flies for the bettas. I used to feed them to the baby toads I had. They are insectivore after all, not necessarily pelletavore, lol. Mine get blood worms, mysis shrimp, pellets, and hikari spirulina shrimp dehydrated blocks. My bedside table betta ate a moth...I'm intrigued by the daphnia.


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## Sadist

The biggest ones look like smooth brains with two legs, and they look like they're jumping through the water!


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> The biggest ones look like smooth brains with two legs, and they look like they're jumping through the water!


Whoops, that is gross. Could gone without reading that one. 



;-)




It is nice that the daphnia are freshwater. Brine shrimpies have to be in salt with a bit of baking soda and...just an added hassel.


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## Sadist

I'll try to get a close up of one when spring break's over. For now, painting (and coloring, ha!) eggs! She also made a painting with the leftover dye, splattering it everywhere.


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## ShadeSlayer

So cool she loves drawing/painting/being messy. A kid I babysit for wont go two feet near ANYTHING dirty. Drives me crazy.


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## Sadist

Haha, some kids are like that. I tried to raise mine as "getting dirty is fun, and then you get a fun bath."


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## SydneyA

Looks like fun. I'm not even sure we will get to egg coloring this year. They were happy with the chocolate I think, lol.


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## themamaj

What cute pictures dying eggs so fun!!!


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## Sadist

Mini me was too sick for chocolate. I let her have 2 m&m's. Everyone enjoyed the live daphnia. It was fun watching them dart around catching them.


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## Sadist

So, my daphnia culture is failing. A whole bunch of them died Monday, and all I could think is that they died when I used clean tank water instead of old tank water when I fed them. Either that, or the powder particles are too big for them to eat it. There were 4 left yesterday that I could find, which I fed some yeast water to. Today, I only see 1. I guess it could also be that I moved them to the window. I guess next time, I'll just put them all in my tanks right away and let them get eaten  At first, I had enough for 2-3 meals per week the way they were going before Monday. Oh well.

Going to Petco in a bit to check on the baby double tail for MamaJ


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## BettaSplendid

Oh_ no_. Sounds like my brine shrimp experiment. I did one or two things that led to their demise. First, I took away their air stone- I think they need that, and two I think the water fouled from the food I was trying to feed them. Maybe there are some survivors in your tanks..? Or are they bad at hiding?


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## Sadist

They don't seem to be great at hiding. The hiding ones seem to be eating biofilm on the surface or something. Or maybe they just hatched there. With everything, there seems to be a trial and error. With high shipping prices, these seem a bit more expensive than most of my trial and errors.

Jr is about the size my original crayfish started at! I think he's a she, too. There's a dark saddle under his shell, which could be eggs ready to be laid. There's a molt in there, so hopefully, eggs will work okay.

Everyone seems to be happy and healthy.


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## AccaliaJay

Is it possible that if you skip 2 feedings in a row that your ghost shrimp go nuts and kill your fish? Last night everything was fine. Nothing wrong. And now Rory is dead with a hole in his stomach and ghost shrimp are feeding on him?! Like what the heck?! First another ghost shrimp and now Rory? Why are they doing this?!? And right at the time I started thinking about putting my cherry shrimp in with them? I can't stomach anymore of them eating others. I'm not gonna buy anymore ghost shrimp. I dunno what to do now though I don't want them to stay in that tank when Vulcan my last remaining store bought guppy could be next.. But I would have to take out my cherry shrimp to put them in that tank with the guppy fry and let them be the clean up crew..


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## themamaj

That is really strange. Never heard of them killing a fish but not surprised if on clean up crew.

Sadist how is daughter feeling?


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## AccaliaJay

It is weird. And sad.


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## SplashyBetta

Ghost shrimp will happily eat anything dead. I don't think they're strong enough to kill a fish, unless the fish was already weak/dying?


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## AccaliaJay

Rory was fine and happy when I went to bed at 2am. Nothing was strange about him chasing females. Something must have happened but whatever it was I just can't deal with anymore fighting the ghost shrimp for the bodies. Since they're so big I can't just let them eat them without worrying about the water quality.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Rory was fine and happy when I went to bed at 2am. Nothing was strange about him chasing females. Something must have happened but whatever it was I just can't deal with anymore fighting the ghost shrimp for the bodies. Since they're so big I can't just let them eat them without worrying about the water quality.


So sorry. I have had fish be fine one minute, walk out of the room and come back to find on bottom of tank with no warning. Occasionally something will happen like that. Only thing I can figure is something goes wrong internally. If you like shrimp but don't want the ghost, might try cherry. They are pretty inexpensive and are really pretty. They are also a lot smaller than the ghosts.


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## AccaliaJay

I have 5 Sakura Fire Cherry shrimp. Their in with my guppy fry. Their like three times smaller than my ghost shrimp. So I plan on switching them. The ghost can eat any deaths that happen in the guppy fry tank and the cherries can have lots of hiding places in the adult tank. My only final worry is my assassin snail. Hes in with the fry. Will he be okay with the huge ghost shrimp or should I hope he gets along with the two nerites that are in the adult tank. Hes like half their size. So I don't think he/she can take on two nerites him/her self being way smaller than them.


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## Sadist

Not sure about the snail. Shrimp can catch it, and they might attack and eat him. I don't think ghost shrimp can catch and kill a healthy adult fish. They might be able to catch fry, though. I didn't have problems with ghost shrimp in with my fry, but I've read that they can do that.

Daughter is better and back in school. On one hand, I'm glad she didn't have to ruin her perfect attendance. On the other, I feel bad that she was sick at home for half of her Spring Break. We did go to the children's museum and the zoo when she was better. Here are some pictures of her making flower soup for the bees and of the flower buds on the sweet onion we planted (we forgot to eat it, and it sprouted).

The pets seem to all be doing well. Jr. is huge already. I saw her (?) waving claws at Blackiechat to scare him away. Too cute. Sky came over to beg for food some more with her belly about to burst. It's bloodworm day. Even Tequila was enthusiastic and attacked his worms. The guppies play together all day.


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## themamaj

Beautiful picture of daughter. Glad feeling better! Love her hair with braid. So pretty.


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## AccaliaJay

Oh wow that's a lot of flowers. Glad she's better. And yes I heard they can catch fry to. I have about 30 fry maybe more to spare. Losing a few fry won't bother me as much as losing adults and having to fight for their bodies.


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## Sadist

Thanks!

Yes, we have a wild yard with lots of rainfall. The low spots stay wet for a long time after it rains, so we can't really keep it short enough for everything to not flower. (we do keep the front mostly short, but the flowers still bloom). 

I'd like everyone to keep my family in their thoughts today. My grandma had a stroke, though she's recovering nicely. Grandpa has had 3 heart attacks and bipasses, so I'm a bit worried about my step mom, too.


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## BettaSplendid

Is your stepmom the one taking care of grandparents?

I think the flower soup is very pretty. I love girls.  Daughter has set up a little outdoor "cafe" and she is cutting up old bread with a pizza cutter. The chickens come up and "order" at her counter top. Then she feeds them. It is so cute, the chickens are actually waiting in line to order. She calls them her customers.


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## Sadist

Haha, that's so cute!

The grandparents were living on their own in an apartment. Grandma's in the hospital recovering still. I just worry about my step mom since both of her parents have had blood clot related kill-you incidents, now.


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## Sadist

I finally had everyone out of the house long enough to clean out the dead daphnia jar. Wow, the smell! Even after bleaching the jar, it still smells bad. Went into the recycling bin. I knew it would smell bad since I tried yeast water the last day there were live things in there. I didn't want to hear complaints about it, but wow, I have to complain a bit myself! Even though the sink smells like bleach, the air around it still smells bad. Opening up the windows. Ugg.

So, don't kill your daphnia culture and then let it sit there dead for a week with yeast and algae water.

In good news, Jr still looks like there's a dark saddle in the back. I think that means a mating occured and eggs are ready to be laid. If she doesn't explode from being a female.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yes, we have a wild yard with lots of rainfall. The low spots stay wet for a long time after it rains, so we can't really keep it short enough for everything to not flower. (we do keep the front mostly short, but the flowers still bloom).
> 
> I'd like everyone to keep my family in their thoughts today. My grandma had a stroke, though she's recovering nicely. Grandpa has had 3 heart attacks and bipasses, so I'm a bit worried about my step mom, too.


I’m so sorry. My grandpa had a stroke and passed away last year. Will keep them in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Sadist

So far, it seems like my grandma just needs speech therapy and gets to go home today.


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## BettaSplendid

That is wonderful! Strokes are awful. 

Glad your little inbreeders are doin' well.  Did you learn any more about CPOs and was it iodine..? I would love to have half a chance of them living more than 4 months. Heh.


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## themamaj

BettaSplendid said:


> Is your stepmom the one taking care of grandparents?
> 
> I think the flower soup is very pretty. I love girls.  Daughter has set up a little outdoor "cafe" and she is cutting up old bread with a pizza cutter. The chickens come up and "order" at her counter top. Then she feeds them. It is so cute, the chickens are actually waiting in line to order. She calls them her customers.


Oh my goodness LOLOLOL chickens in line!


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> So far, it seems like my grandma just needs speech therapy and gets to go home today.


So sorry to hear of your grandma's stroke and grandfather's heart issues. I will keep both of them and your step mom in my prayers. Glad she got to come home today. Keep us posted


----------



## Sadist

BettaSplendid said:


> That is wonderful! Strokes are awful.
> 
> Glad your little inbreeders are doin' well.  Did you learn any more about CPOs and was it iodine..? I would love to have half a chance of them living more than 4 months. Heh.


I'd completely forgotten about the iodine. I'm not sure what it would do to the other fish having it in there, so I haven't put any in. So far, Tiger and Jr seem to be fine with their molting. I'm still not sure if it was a molting thing or a female thing that killed Tigress. Or both. She was on her back, which could mean problem or laying eggs. She already had eggs, and Tiger was trying to mate with her and ripping off her legs when she wouldn't comply. She was mostly hiding when she had eggs, so there may have been some problem with her for a long time that wasn't addressed.

Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers for my family.

The kiddo's play is cute, too. We don't have any animals who would be customers, so daddy and I have to play with her. There are hawks and escaped pet dogs all over all the time, and the backyard floods when it rains, so no outdoor pets at all for us.


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## Sadist

Read this little article about eggs today. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...d-hens/ar-BBrryGD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

I'm appalled by the last paragraph:



> Walmart is sticking with its same egg suppliers as it makes the switch over the next nine years. The suppliers will be required to abide by certain standards, including providing hens "enrichment" such as nests and perches, giving each hen a minimum of one square foot of space and submitting to third-party auditing.


I think they should get away more space out of a cage than 1 square foot. That doesn't seem that much bigger than the cage to me.


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## BettaSplendid

Wow. And they're proud of that? I guess by the square foot minimum they mean they have them ALL in one big building, but loose, so techincally they are not in a cage alone, but in a big cage with 1000's of others? So the cages they use now do not even have room to "flap wings in". That is sickening. Then once they are too old for eggs they get slaughtered for meat. They don't even get to hatch peeps.  Our world...is just sad. $$$$$


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## Sadist

Yes, I saw a show with "free range" turkeys, and the turkeys were just packed into a barn like sardines. I'm not sure how the chickens will be able to use their "enrichment" if they only have a foot of space.

In other news, Sky has a problem. I made a post in the disease section. The cold front has dropped the temp in her tank, and I wonder if that set something off. I don't want to lose my baby :-( It looks like columnaris to me, which would mean I can't even use the tank for anyone else, maybe not even the plants.


----------



## Sadist

Okay, it's been a long time since I posted picture updates.

Mrs. Fish seems to be biting her rays off. I may have to block her vision of the 10 gallon.

Blackiechat was all sorts of darting around and begging for food, so his pictures suck.

Sky has a marbley patch started on her dorsal (remember how I thought it was columnaris?).

Tequila is gorgeous as always.

I noticed I really need to clean the outside of the tanks.

The End!


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## themamaj

The last picture of Mrs Fish is so good! I love how you have captured her expression and personality. Tequilla is a really beautiful color. I know veil tails aren't as popular with some people but I really love them. Something about those long fins flowing behind is so fun to watch! 

How is your grandmother today?


----------



## Sadist

She's home and doing well. It seems like she just needs speech therapy to finish her recovery.

I saw Tigress Jr, and it is a girl! I saw 2-3 fertilized eggs on her tail as she was climbing the plants. I'm hoping she can hold onto them and hatch them before she molts again!


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## BettaSplendid

Isn't it amazing?! Seems you just discovered "jr" (LOL) and now she has eggs?! They grow so fast. That would be great if they hatched.

Blackiechat looks great. The spikey girls are lookin good too. So it is definitely marbling? I never would have guess that.


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## Sadist

Lilnaugrim thinks it's marbling. Unless Sky randomly drops dead, at this point it could be marbling! There's no fuzz, and everything reads well except the temperature problems. She doesn't seem to care what temperature the water is, either, silly girl. If I go over there, she'll launch herself on top of the salvinia, her version of begging for food.


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## BettaSplendid

I never tire of your descriptions of their feasting antics. "launching" out of the water. :lol: hahahahaha.


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## Sadist

She really does. It looks like the bobbing exercise of the kiddo's swim lessons. Her head bobbing up over and over until she beaches herself on a plant. I've never seen a fish do that except the kinds that jump out to catch bugs.


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## BettaSplendid

When I was reading about Gourami, I learned that they will spit water at insects to knock them down. I was impressed. That would be fun. I can totally see myself lining pellets up, above the tank....like a little sbooting range. . "Okay, get 'em!"

At co-op we were making little killer whales out of paper and Daughter started talking about how Stormy was a "little killer whale" and my helper mom was like, "what?" so I explained that Stormy was a betta and she will jump out of the water to get food (or your finger). And she said, "really? We have a "beta" and he doesn't do anything like that." Then I started talking about females...then my boys and their tanks.......and she was like, "Wait. You keep them in tanks? Oh I thought we had the same kind of fish. I have something different, you know those Chinese Fighting fish?" I said, "Yes, bettas, that is what mine are. I just don't keep them cramped up. I like to give them as natural an environment as possible." she had a shocked look. Like, gosh, I thought they HAD to be kept in bowls... She said she had never considered a female but that they sound fun. Ooooooh boy. Yes loads of fun. The little killers.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Okay so sadist I have a question is it possible that crayfish. Are kinda like guppies? The male being able to stress a female out if there's only one female for him to mate with? I mean there could have been multiple things to have caused Tigress to pass. Stress and then a molting problem? Just wondering. 

One of the great white twins died and now the other one is acting weird.. I didn't get to takeout my ghost shrimp because of chores so their still in there. And yes there were signs of them feeding on him. I'm worried about the remaining twin. Like hes swimming with his tail down instead of straight and he's doing a lot of wiggling. I wonder if it's stress? Or does he have a serious medical issue. I'll try getting a picture if he will stay still long enough.


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## AccaliaJay

Best picture I can get


----------



## Sadist

I wondered if it was some sort of stressful, too much mating situation with the crayfish. I was wondering if I should grow a female out to full size before adding her to the male's tank, but then he might be more territorial or something, too. I did notice that Tigress hid almost the whole time she was pregnant, like she was stressed out. I might get a few small caves and move him to a different tank. My other tanks just have plants to hide in, and the crayfish like a little extra.

I'm not sure on your guppy. They do get stressed if one of their social group disappears. I've seen stress as glass surfing and eating problems in mine. It almost always led to a health problem eventually, which is why I got my remaining fry a friend from the store. The health problems usually killed them within a day or two once it started. So the cycle is 1 death --> stress for a few days --> sick for a day or two --> dead. I'm not sure if it was just an incubation period for whatever killed the first fish or if the stress made the second ones catch something or what.

Okay, on to pictures! Tequila Sunrise looking pretty.

Sky's color changes. It's hard to see with the flash, as her iridescence is still turquoise even on the white area. Without flash, it's hard to see her at all in the tangle of plants and shade. These are mostly with the flash because it's cloudy.


----------



## Sadist

I managed to get a no flash picture that shows the area better, though it's not very focused. If she sees me nearby, she gets too wiggly and excited and is like trying to take a picture of a guppy.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> She really does. It looks like the bobbing exercise of the kiddo's swim lessons. Her head bobbing up over and over until she beaches herself on a plant. I've never seen a fish do that except the kinds that jump out to catch bugs.


Lol she is the "flying fish". What a girl!


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## themamaj

What great pictures! How have you gotten such a nice crop of salvinia growing?


----------



## Sadist

Those tanks are in a south window and get direct sunlight when it's sunny. It seems to be the same as a bright light bulb. I put paper over the glass facing the window to keep the water from getting too warm. The downside is the window area is cooler in the winter and hard to keep the tanks warm.

The addition of a clamp-on lamp with a daylight cfl right above the glass has helped the salvinia in the 10 gallon. It's now reproducing and getting nice roots like the window tanks. It was a cfl from the pet store instead of walmart, about the same price. The salvinia and tangle-o-plants (like the one lilnaugrim sold, ha!) is shading the low light stuff at the bottom, and everything seems happy.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Those tanks are in a south window and get direct sunlight when it's sunny. It seems to be the same as a bright light bulb. I put paper over the glass facing the window to keep the water from getting too warm. The downside is the window area is cooler in the winter and hard to keep the tanks warm.
> 
> The addition of a clamp-on lamp with a daylight cfl right above the glass has helped the salvinia in the 10 gallon. It's now reproducing and getting nice roots like the window tanks. It was a cfl from the pet store instead of walmart, about the same price. The salvinia and tangle-o-plants (like the one lilnaugrim sold, ha!) is shading the low light stuff at the bottom, and everything seems happy.


Looks great! I admire your plant growth.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Thanks sadist he's still doing it today. I'm betting it's stress he and his twin were always in the same tank. And I love your tanks. I'm hoping one day I'll be able plant my tanks like yours.


----------



## Sadist

Thanks! I really want them to be like Aqua Aurora's tanks, but I don't think they'll ever be that nice.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Thanks! I really want them to be like Aqua Aurora's tanks, but I don't think they'll ever be that nice.


I understand. I look at these beautiful tank pictures online and think oh I could do that. Never quite turns out that way and my plants never stay so pretty and green. 

When do you all get out of school? I think May 18th is last day here. Seems early this year but really ready for things to slow down a bit.


----------



## Sadist

I'm not sure, but I think it's a bit early. We might do a month of summer camp, but I want to really hit the pool with my girl. She's all about the swimming! I'll need to cut the pink off my hair so the sun and water don't bleach it out and leave bleach hair


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I'm not sure, but I think it's a bit early. We might do a month of summer camp, but I want to really hit the pool with my girl. She's all about the swimming! I'll need to cut the pink off my hair so the sun and water don't bleach it out and leave bleach hair


Yep that might be a new look haha. Pool sounds great! Sure look forward to some days in the sun!!! Do you have some good camp options around your area? I know our zoo does a day camp that is fun. Seems like so many places offer great things for kids to do now. I wish I had all those options growing up! My daughter has a gymnastics camp to go to in PA. Thankfully my FIL is sponsoring that trip because we sure would not have money to do it otherwise. I know she is working hard to get some new skills to help her maybe have a chance to compete in college. Just looked up the drive and it is like 11 hours away. Ugg dread the drive but will be fun to explore a new area. Probably not far from Lil so may have to ask her what is neat to see up there. I feel like Shrek the far far away....haha


----------



## AccaliaJay

Her tanks are gorgeous. Makes me want to beg my parents to let me make one of mine planted. They probably won't let me though. I'm having trouble getting them to get me an air pump for the bubbler my brother got me for Christmas as it is. Doesn't help I have no idea to look for lol it would be so pretty if I could get it to work.


----------



## ThatFishThough

I saw a baby guppy at PetCo yesterday. He looked so stressed and tiny.. .-.

He was a blue snakeskin. The only other gups I have are the two males in my sorority. Psh, the girls would eat him.


----------



## AccaliaJay

That sad


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## Sadist

I tried to get some pictures of Sky's marbling progress, but she was so wiggly. I'll have to work on them tomorrow and see if any were in focus.

I also took a picture of the 10 gallon. Tigress Jr looks great in her hidey hole, but I see Tiger's tail sticking out of his hide like he's laying on his side dead :-( I don't see any injuries on the part sticking out, and it's been two days since I did anything to the water. I'll fish his body out in the morning if he's gone for real.

Oh, the summer camps! We're looking at the programs that she's there during school hours and home the rest of the time. She wants to do an art one, though they also have sports ones, ones at the zoo and children's museum and probably some at the various dance and gymnastics places. Some of the schools have them, too. I did YMCA a bit like that as a kid, and they probably have the same thing going on there, too.


----------



## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Her tanks are gorgeous. Makes me want to beg my parents to let me make one of mine planted. They probably won't let me though. I'm having trouble getting them to get me an air pump for the bubbler my brother got me for Christmas as it is. Doesn't help I have no idea to look for lol it would be so pretty if I could get it to work.


You can get just a basic air pump at Walmart for about $10


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## AccaliaJay

I posted a thread cause I didn't know if I needed a certain kind and found a cheap one on walmart. Just need to convince my parents to get it for me.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I tried to get some pictures of Sky's marbling progress, but she was so wiggly. I'll have to work on them tomorrow and see if any were in focus.
> 
> I also took a picture of the 10 gallon. Tigress Jr looks great in her hidey hole, but I see Tiger's tail sticking out of his hide like he's laying on his side dead :-( I don't see any injuries on the part sticking out, and it's been two days since I did anything to the water. I'll fish his body out in the morning if he's gone for real.
> 
> Oh, the summer camps! We're looking at the programs that she's there during school hours and home the rest of the time. She wants to do an art one, though they also have sports ones, ones at the zoo and children's museum and probably some at the various dance and gymnastics places. Some of the schools have them, too. I did YMCA a bit like that as a kid, and they probably have the same thing going on there, too.


Oh no on Tiger. Could it be a molt?

I forgot about art camps. Sometimes the children's museums and even art studios will do summer programs like drawing, painting or even pottery. Do you all ever go to the "please touch children's museum" down by the aquarium? I would love to take my grandson there sometime.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> I posted a thread cause I didn't know if I needed a certain kind and found a cheap one on walmart. Just need to convince my parents to get it for me.


Understand. Good luck


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## themamaj

ThatFishThough said:


> I saw a baby guppy at PetCo yesterday. He looked so stressed and tiny.. .-.
> 
> He was a blue snakeskin. The only other gups I have are the two males in my sorority. Psh, the girls would eat him.


Poor baby! That's how I ended up with a few guppy fry at one time from and "oops" in the tank. I was in that same store not long ago and saw a lone one too. I bet a blue snakeskin would be lovely. Have only seen the orange and yellow around here.


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## ThatFishThough

Same! My mom was also hanging around my shoulder. She said no more guppies, since one of my trio died.


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## Sadist

Tiger was still there, unresponsive. I had to get him out of the hide with my hand (with the guppies and Blackiechat bumping up against me). No injuries or signs of molt. I buried him with our two sweet onions. At least Jr has eggs. I wonder if this is just how my tank will be with the little fellows. I'm pretty sure they're supposed to live a year or two :-(


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## BettaSplendid

Ah, I am sorry. :-(

I really enjoy the CPOs but reluctant to try more. It is hard to lose them because they are just sooo special. I wonder if JDaquatics has any advice for longevity?


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## Sadist

I may try the iodine thing and see if that's it.

Okay, several bad/blurry pictures of Sky and her algae, trying to document her marbling process. One picture turned out.

Also the picture of the 10 gallon with Jr in her hidey corner and Tiger's dead tail sticking out from under the breeding net hide.

Oh no, now my pictures are thumbnails, too! I wonder if it's a new forum thing?


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## Sadist

I forgot to mention that I buried Tiger with some salvinia. Gotta keep those nitrates down :-D Okay, too soon. My arm and the net were covered with the stuff, so some of it got into the grave.


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## themamaj

So sorry about Tiger. I guess hard to know how old when get them. Wish mine had lasted longer too.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> I may try the iodine thing and see if that's it.
> 
> Okay, several bad/blurry pictures of Sky and her algae, trying to document her marbling process. One picture turned out.
> 
> Also the picture of the 10 gallon with Jr in her hidey corner and Tiger's dead tail sticking out from under the breeding net hide.
> 
> Oh no, now my pictures are thumbnails, too! I wonder if it's a new forum thing?


And it is hard for me to see the pictures because if I click on them, they show up for a split second and then disappear. :|


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## themamaj

Yes grumbling over thumbnails too but am able to view. That is amazing marbling coming out. Looks like the color loss gene. Very cool!!! Keep us posted on that. It will be very neat to see how she changes.


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## Sadist

My supplier sends them out as juveniles. I think Jr is about the same size as the original two when they arrived, so they were just a few months old. I made sure a blood worm fell next to her hidey spot, and I hope no one swooped down and ate it before she could.

I'm sorry the thumbnails aren't staying open for you! If I click on them too many times, the browser opens up a new tab just for the picture and shows it really well. I still use my computer for internet, though.

I'm excited that Sky's color change is marbling for sure. With the saddle-like shape by the dorsal, I thought for sure she had that uncureable disease thing. I think it's caused by temperature change -- the sponge filter isn't circulating the water through all the plants, and the heater just can't seem to keep that tank warm. It gets too warm in the summer because of the sun, too. The plants love it, but when Sky moves on, I may just keep that as a snail tank. The hubby will have kittens. Maybe I'll get some special purple mystery snail or something.

So funny how they sleep. I vibrate the floor too much to sneak up and get a picture, so I'll have to use words. Sky usually sleeps in the plants, unseen. Today, she is on the sand below the feeding corner near her snail. Tequila sleeps with his head in the java moss and his body in an inverted U shape, his tail higher than his head. Mrs. Fish just leans against a plant, even if the leaves are smaller than her (her bacopa is doing really well on low light, not growing overly tall, but turned towards the light and good coloring). Sometimes, she a cm away from the plant but still in that leaned-over position, like someone resting on a wall. Blackiechat hides behind the filter to sleep even with all the plants. I think he's hiding from the guppies, which are two bundles of constant movement and distraction. Maybe, he's hiding from Jr, who isn't afraid to poke her claws out at anyone or anything!

I so wish we could get an axolotl! I don't think fans would keep the water cool enough in the summer, though. We use AC but keep it at 82 because the vaulted ceilings make the bill too high. It's hard enough keeping the tanks warm during the brief winter (set heater at 58 and supplement with fireplace, which doesn't warm the fish room). The cooling systems I've looked at were way way more expensive than an aquarium heater, too. No way would the hubby be okay with spending that much money on one item for one pet.


----------



## SydneyA

Speaking of axolotl, I just posted new pics of buttercup. She has really grown!


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## BettaSplendid

So Blackiechat doesn't glass surf? And he doesn't try to destroy the guppies either?


----------



## AccaliaJay

I'm fighting the urge to ask for another betta. I could get two if I reorganized and got a air pump for my bubbler and more fish food. I'm running low on fish food cause I let my mom use my big bottle when she ran out and I used my small API bottle. She waited until my bottle was gone to get another


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## Sadist

BettaSplendid said:


> So Blackiechat doesn't glass surf? And he doesn't try to destroy the guppies either?


Nope, he's super mellow, even eats right by the guppies with no problems that I can see. Oh goodness, store guppy just propositioned him, too. Ha! He turned him down without flaring or nipping or anything, and the guppies have now found each other again.



AccaliaJay said:


> I'm fighting the urge to ask for another betta. I could get two if I reorganized and got a air pump for my bubbler and more fish food. I'm running low on fish food cause I let my mom use my big bottle when she ran out and I used my small API bottle. She waited until my bottle was gone to get another


Good luck!



SydneyA said:


> Speaking of axolotl, I just posted new pics of buttercup. She has really grown!


Oh goodness! I've got to go find them!

Sky's marbling is going super swiftly, now. She has stripes all over, almost like a clown fish but blue and white instead of orange, black, and white.


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## AccaliaJay

I might have to give up on that idea. My laptop has taken a bad turn...


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## BettaSplendid

ROFL.... Guppies. That is great Blackiechat is so mellow! Both Simeon and Zadok couldn't handle the guppies and they (the bettas) started glass surfing. Got lucky with Solomon.  

That is some major marbling! Wouldn't it be cool if there were bettas as clear as ghost shrimp? Spirit bettas or Crystal bettas....I am already trying to market them.


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## ThatFishThough

Cellophane?


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## themamaj

Marbling can be induced by water changes or temp like you said. It is really fascinating to me how the gene can essentially jump from one area on the DNA to another activating that particular trait. Sky sounds so interesting how the marbling is going. Love to see more pictures! 

I love hearing how they all sleep. Isn't it funny how they are all so different! 

Do any stores around your area sell the axolotls? They are really neat! I wonder if it would be hard to keep water temp cooled and stable since gets so hot here in summer. I will have to check around here and see if anyone local carries them. Would like to see one in person.


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## Sadist

I haven't seen any axolotls locally, just where you can order them online. I imagine the ones in the stores either missing lots of parts from cannibalism or stuck in 1 gallon jars that they can't turn around in (like betta cups). 

Well, Sky isn't cooperating with pictures too much. Apparently, it's "out of site time" and I messed it up with pictures a few minutes ago. I didn't even get the super stripey side or the lipstick on the top lip. I did manage lots of glare without even having the flash on, yay me!

First one is Friday or Saturday, other two are this morning. Then, the battery died.


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## themamaj

Really neat to see the striping coming out. She has the most interesting marbling pattern I have seen.

Oh the thought of axolotls in a small container would be horrifying. The only place around here that might have them would be our nice aquarium store. I typically stay in the freshwater section so they may have them in a special area on other side where a lot of salt water and unusual fish are. Will ask the next time in there.


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## Sadist

I recall reading somewhere that they're endangered. I'm going to make sure mine is from a breeder and not the wild if I ever get one.


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## ShadeSlayer

I just got a new betta called Luc (Like lucks) And he’s a pearly white color with some grey marbly spots. Will he change?


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## Sadist

He might! Warm water will do a good thing to the gray bits, might change to blue or red or something. Not sure about the pearly parts.


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## Sadist

Okay, got some pictures of the super side of Sky's marbling. You can even see the white lipstick on her upper lip. And lots of glare.


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## AccaliaJay

You guys are lucky I'm craving a new buddy but my computer is broke so I can't spend my money on fish instead of saving up to possibly replace my laptop


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## Sadist

I'm not allowed to get any more, either. I think the hubby would be happy if I sold my current stock and tanks and just kept the 10 gallon.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol


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## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> He might! Warm water will do a good thing to the gray bits, might change to blue or red or something. Not sure about the pearly parts.


Cool! My brother’s excited for change. It’s his fish, but I do all the cleaning, as expected. :lol:


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## AccaliaJay

Sounds like me and my mother. I do all the cleaning on her tank.


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## Sadist

I was getting worried about Tigress Jr. She was hiding to the disappeared level for 3 days. She's out and about today! I think she molted :-( I didn't get too close since she's a bit shy with me, so I couldn't tell for sure. It looked like the eggs were gone, and she looks bigger. I saw her romp by the corner that faces the computer a bit ago, but now I can't find her again. 

I did see some otos yesterday and today. They like their algae wafer.

I dropped poor Mrs. Fish's lid into the tank trying to mess with the clip on lamp I got for it. The way it clips on, it seems to always lean on the lid with part of the neck. I'm not looking forward to it, but I think I'll have to clip it on a different area. I imagine broken glass floating around the tank and such. It's a pain messing with it because of the pothos vine. Don't want to squish my plant!


----------



## Sadist

I've been toying with the idea of moving a tank to my daughter's room at some time. When one of the older fish moves on, I could move the desk tank to her room and get her a pink betta since we have salamander coloring available all the time at the local stores. I'm just afraid that by the time that happens, her favorite color might not be pink any more  She says her favorite animal is a pink fish.

https://www.facebook.com/Bermuda-Triangle-Tropical-Fish-Supplies-105705482808265/ Here's a local fish store, but they don't have bettas. I respect them a bit for it to be honest. No tiny, unheated cups.


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## Sadist

Picked up the light for Mrs. Fish's tank. She didn't like it, so I moved a bunch more salvinia to her tank. I needed to clear some out from the 2.5, anyways. I also bought a cute anubias and managed to catch the roots on the 3 tube hide enough to let it float there without tying it.

Then, I decided that pothos shouldn't go into the filter back and moved it to the filter outflow before the roots could destroy the filter engine. I also moved around the stripey plants as they keep falling too deeply into the water. Maybe I should move them to the filter box.


----------



## Sadist

Found a nice, lengthy article on earthquakes. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one?mbid=social_facebook We're due for a big one in the fault north of California. It should devastate the pacific northwest US and west coast of Canada. The article fixated more on the US losses because of all the cities in Oregon and Washington state.


----------



## ThatFishThough

*shivers* Earthquakes, no thank you. Our parents are just waiting for Yellowstone to erupt. .-.


Poor you, all your Crays molting. Will you get another male?


----------



## Sadist

I don't think I'll get any more unless I try out the iodine stuff, which is supposed to help with molting problems. Plus, everything I've tried to breed seems to have baby/birth issues, so I think I'll just keep boys and girls separate until shrimp.

Sky is getting some yellow iridescence on her back! Her marble journey is just amazing to watch. When Mr. Fish marbled, it was just to fill in his butterfly pattern, then bite all the white parts off his fins and then die of a tumor. Not very exciting!


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> Found a nice, lengthy article on earthquakes. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one?mbid=social_facebook We're due for a big one in the fault north of California. It should devastate the pacific northwest US and west coast of Canada. The article fixated more on the US losses because of all the cities in Oregon and Washington state.


that’s where I’m at, only father away form the coast enough as to not be so directly affected. STILL terrifying, tho. Better bolt down the fishtanks.


----------



## Sadist

Yes, and Yellowstone scares me even though I think our state will be mostly unaffected except for food scarcity. I probably should start a raised bed farm in the back yard 

And my attempt at healthy food that tastes like pizza.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

nice try, lol


----------



## BettaSplendid

Triceratops eggs?


Seriously, stupid thumbnails. Clicking on it doesn't help.


----------



## Sadist

I roasted some oval tomatoes with salt, pepper, rosemary, fresh garlic, and cut up cheese stick.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> I roasted some oval tomatoes with salt, pepper, rosemary, fresh garlic, and cut up cheese stick.


No wonder it looked like eggs....and with a dinosaur above it....must have been coincidence, but Triceratops Eggs is a good name anyways.

Sounds pizza-y. Was it good? I know....no bread. Are you doing a low-carbohydrate diet? If not then all thise ingredients over some spaghetti squash would be yummy. I need to quit being lazy and plant a garden. Squash is so expensive but it grows good here. They wanna charge you by the pound and all.

Here is a healthy, filling treat that I just discovered. It is sweet because of the coconut milk but actually not bad for you.

A can of coconut milk (I have tried a lot of brands but Thai Kitchen organic is my favorite.
A half cup to one cup Chia seeds
You can flavor it with cinnamon, vanilla, or plain cocoa powder (no sugar) and maybe some honey if you're not avoiding carbs
Then just stir with a fork and put in fridge 10 or 15 minutes and it thickens (yes, that quick!) and is like pudding. Guilt free.

Chia seeds are at health food stores and maybe....maybe...a regular grocery store....maybe. you can also thicken meatloaf/meatballs with them.

My husband is on a no carb diet so I have had to get creative...


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Yes, and Yellowstone scares me even though I think our state will be mostly unaffected except for food scarcity. I probably should start a raised bed farm in the back yard
> 
> And my attempt at healthy food that tastes like pizza.


Looks pretty good. Maybe that would be something my kids might try. Tomatoes actually do well in garden. I have been meaning to get garden started this year (in spare time lololol). Last year I did tomatoes, cucumbers, squash,okras, carrots, lettuce, green pepper, etc. My goal was to make a salad haha. Unfortunately little bunny foo foo hopping through the garden had a salad first! Carrots and lettuce gone...hmmm bunny foot prints. This year we have a dog! Watch out bunny!!


----------



## Sadist

BettaSplendid said:


> No wonder it looked like eggs....and with a dinosaur above it....must have been coincidence, but Triceratops Eggs is a good name anyways.
> 
> Sounds pizza-y. Was it good? I know....no bread. Are you doing a low-carbohydrate diet? If not then all thise ingredients over some spaghetti squash would be yummy. I need to quit being lazy and plant a garden. Squash is so expensive but it grows good here. They wanna charge you by the pound and all.
> 
> Here is a healthy, filling treat that I just discovered. It is sweet because of the coconut milk but actually not bad for you.
> 
> A can of coconut milk (I have tried a lot of brands but Thai Kitchen organic is my favorite.
> A half cup to one cup Chia seeds
> You can flavor it with cinnamon, vanilla, or plain cocoa powder (no sugar) and maybe some honey if you're not avoiding carbs
> Then just stir with a fork and put in fridge 10 or 15 minutes and it thickens (yes, that quick!) and is like pudding. Guilt free.
> 
> Chia seeds are at health food stores and maybe....maybe...a regular grocery store....maybe. you can also thicken meatloaf/meatballs with them.
> 
> My husband is on a no carb diet so I have had to get creative...


I may have to try that! I'm so tired of smoothies. I don't like bananas, and that's the base of my recipes. I have seen chia seeds at our grocery store. They're a bit pricey; I think the packages are around $8, and they only have maybe a cup of seeds. I usually get flax seeds instead and swallow them like pills.

I'm not really on a no carb diet, just trying to eat more whole foods to help with my health (and lose weight). It means I try to switch one meal to all vegetables every day. That with cutting out daily sugar should help me slim down a bit.

The triceratop eggs were delicious! It had all the pizza flavoring that I crave all of the time. In general, the bread is just something that holds up the tomato and cheese flavor for me and makes it more filling so I don't eat 3 pizzas by myself.



themamaj said:


> Looks pretty good. Maybe that would be something my kids might try. Tomatoes actually do well in garden. I have been meaning to get garden started this year (in spare time lololol). Last year I did tomatoes, cucumbers, squash,okras, carrots, lettuce, green pepper, etc. My goal was to make a salad haha. Unfortunately little bunny foo foo hopping through the garden had a salad first! Carrots and lettuce gone...hmmm bunny foot prints. This year we have a dog! Watch out bunny!!


Haha, watch out bunnies! We get them, too. One year, we couldn't play in the back yard because there was so much bunny poop on the ground. That stopped when a new neighbor with a dog moved in. The dog scared all the bunnies away from across the fence!

A lady down the street from us had a garden and the things that make salsa in it. One year, she brought a whole basket of tomatoes over. I'm the only one in the house that eats them, so I had a lot of tomato salads that summer!

And in other news, snail eggs! Mrs. Fish and Tequila both have a pond snail in their tanks. I guess they got frisky with themselves. I'm unsure if I want to just leave the eggs alone or try to squish them right now. I don't have a scraper, just an algae scrubber (and only one). None of the fish try to eat snails unless I squish them first (or Mrs. Fish, when the nerite was in her tank, but now she won't try the little ones).

Anyone have experience with this? If I knock them down with my thumb nail or the handle of the scrubber, will they hatch in the substrate anyway?


----------



## BettaSplendid

Really....I just checked the price on the bag of chia seeds from the Health food store... $1.82 for a bag that had at least a cup worth in it.

Okay, I WILL be starting a garden, bunnies or no bunnies. Tomatoes....basil....I will make some Triceratops Eggs.

Banana, avocado, milk and vanilla in blender is delicious. It is like ice cream, seriously good. It sounds gross, looks gross, and tastes so good.

Also like banana, coconut milk and frozen pineapple chunks.

I know....more bananas. But....it is good.


----------



## Sadist

I'll find another source for chia seeds, then! I'm sure I've seen a more sizable bag, like a pound, for a different price somewhere.

edit: I forgot I was going to visit my daughter for lunch today. I really hope she also forgot. I had to write a note and stick it to my monitor for tomorrow!


----------



## Sadist

Reading about other people finding cheap large tank + stand... and I remembered that one of the neighbors had one for free on their lawn once a long time ago. It was long before I ever thought of doing fishkeeping. I wish I had grabbed it! It would have been nice as a first tank and stand thing, and I may have just stuck with one betta and some bottom feeders!

Well, I did it. I pulled out all of the infected pothos and threw it out. I feel horrible, but there was no way I'd be able to pinpoint the hundreds of individual mealy bugs and dab with alcohol before the plants died. Poor Sky's tank looks so bare without the tangle of roots. Now, I just have to pinpoint the dozens of mealy bugs left (mostly on the edges of the tanks and on chords) and finish them off, wait forever, and find a healthy plant. I recall seeing the fuzzy white stuff when I first bought this pothos vine, but I dismissed it as some fungus that went away :-( Now, I know better and can fix it before things get bad. I wonder if the hubby would notice if I got $50 of plants from the pet store and stuffed them in Sky's tank....


----------



## ShadeSlayer

the plant struggle is real.


----------



## themamaj

Doing water changes looking at my plants looking peaked feeling you pain!


----------



## BettaSplendid

Water wisteria and anacharis grow like weeds. If left floating, the wisteria makes a tangle of roots too. Both are on the cheaper side for aquarium plants too.


----------



## Sadist

Along with the pothos was an infected wisteria, which had decided to grow out of the water. I guess it propped itself on the pothos vine. I do have some wisteria in a tangle on one side, and I threw a big IAL in the middle to try to hide some of the heater/filter yuck. I do have a big tangle of some in the 10 gallon that I could move over to cover the middle some more. Those roots were pretty much the middle decoration, and now there's just a big ugly space. Sky seems okay with it. Her marbling seems to have decided she's going to have a band of white between her pectorals and dorsal and a stripe on her caudal. Some of the white is turning yellowish, and now tinted orange.


----------



## Sadist

I totally forgot to let everyone know how the snail egg fiasco went. They were pretty easy to remove from the glass. They were tied together and stuck to the glass with mucous, so I was able to knock them from the glass and remove them with the turkey baster. If only the 10 gallon ones laid them on the glass where I could see them! I don't mind a few of them in there, but I don't like looking in to see 30 babies that need to be culled to keep nitrates down and the plants alive.


----------



## Sadist

Another blurry, algae-ridden picture of Sky's progress. The snails have chomped the algae in a messy pattern.

Also, look who I found in the window!


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## themamaj

I am amazed at how Sky changes! Awww loving lizard. Great picture


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## ShadeSlayer

Super cute. Is it a pet?


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## Sadist

It's just a wild lizard (blue tailed skink?)that managed to get between the glass and screen. Usually, they have blue stripes. Maybe this one is a female.


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## themamaj

We have lots of those around here. Actually last year one laid eggs in mom's flower beds. She went to plant her flowers and all these little lizards came running out. Dad said he laughed himself silly as she turned ashen white and screaming. Mom is not a fan of lizards or snakes haha. I think they are so cute. Funny they will drop their tail off if you scare them.


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## BettaSplendid

themamaj said:


> We have lots of those around here. Actually last year one laid eggs in mom's flower beds. She went to plant her flowers and all these little lizards came running out. Dad said he laughed himself silly as she turned ashen white and screaming. Mom is not a fan of lizards or snakes haha. I think they are so cute. Funny they will drop their tail off if you scare them.


Yeah! I think they are so pretty. We have quite a few too. As they grow they get quite big and copper colored, if it is the same thing, "broad head skinks" I think. I looked it up a few years ago because I kept seeing these BIG copper skinks. Just amazing. I can just see your mom freaking out. Bet she hadn't moved that fast in years.


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## Sadist

We mostly have the blue tailed ones here. Apparently, people keep them as pets, too. http://www.ehow.com/how_8484973_care-bluetailed-skink.html though I would go with the light heater rather than an undertank heater myself. Some lizards can burn their bellies with heat underneath, and I don't know if these kinds do. I'm not sure I'd want to keep a lizard I couldn't handle as a pet. At least bettas can swim into your hand and play with you.


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## AccaliaJay

I could probably handle lizards if I tried but I'm 100% sure I can't do snakes. I had to watch my nephew for my brother to check out my laptop. I'm still here at their house because 1 my brother can't seem to get my laptop to connect to the internet which is one thing I need. And iv been helping my brothers wife do my neice maddies room. Their painting the room like a lime green and purple trim. But it seems their trying to kill me. Everyone seems to but me and his wife have a stumach bug that's making everyone have stumach pains. I have a headache this morning and slightly feel sick but I think it's more my anxiety causing it. I dislike being sick so I tend to freak out and panic when sick people are around me. I want to go home honestly but my mom might start yelling at me if I end up going home and get sick


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## Sadist

Ugg. family.

I visited the pet shops on the way home from errands. Petsmart has a gorgeous little black devil crowntail girl. Bonus, she's not afraid of fingers! There was also a multicolor/grizzley sort of double tail boy that wanted to come home with me. It sort of looked like his intestines were sticking out, or he had a weird poop. I don't really have anywhere to put a sick fish, so he stayed there.

Petco had 3 nice blue butterfly boys, but I'm not sure how their pattern will hold up. The white/fleshy part of the fins took up most of the fins with the blue part just being a tiny band next to their bodies. There was a pretty black devil butterfly, too, but his head had a weird shape/lump thing going on. He was also having some minor swim bladder issues. The swim bladder may have gotten better with good water, but the head thing threw me off. It looks like the back of a human head, then dipping down to a spoon face on one side and down to the dorsal on the other.


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## AccaliaJay

Sounds like you got lucky seeing so many. I wonder how my tanks are doing since I'm still not at home.


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## Sadist

That's scary! Do you have your lights on a timer, so no one screws that up? With no food, the water change might be okay to skip while you're gone. I know I'd come home to a horrible smell and all dead fish and plants or something.


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## AccaliaJay

My moms there but she only really feeds them. I should probably text her to ask how their doing


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## Sadist

Stripey passed away today. I don't see injuries, so I can only assume the algae on the glass is the wrong kind and she starved. I feel horrible. I have her shell soaking in bleach to remove all the body. I'll keep the shell and maybe put it in a tank for decoration. 

Now, to do some research on plants that can be kept in cold water. I also need to finagle a way to monitor 30 gallons in the fish room and see what temps it reaches in the summer without fans and cooling systems. I'm trying to fool myself into believing we can get an axolotl. Ha!


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## BettaSplendid

Wait....this sounds pretty serious. _Are you getting an Axilotl?_

You probably need one. If you want something bad enough then you need it, right?


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## Sadist

Yes, but our house is in the 80's in the summer, and I don't think I can keep its cage cool enough :-( I do need one. 

It looks like anacharis and cherry shrimp can live in cooler waters, so maybe I can try the tank out that way. I'd have to see what the water temperature is like with and without fans over the summer. A nice, big tank like that could make lots and lots of shrimp to feed to my fishies, too. I may be able to keep water sprite alive at those temps, too. I have to get a nice, expensive light for that :-( 

I had a dream that I got a job at the library as the fish person. My job was to buy, set up, and maintain an aquarium for them. If only!


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## AccaliaJay

I would love a job like that sadist lol books and fish my two favs


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## Sadist

Me, too. My onion blooms have started to open. Well, the bud opened and shows a million tiny flower buds clustered together! I need to take pictures.


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## BettaSplendid

Yes, books and fish. That would be ideal.  I had a dream I gave birth to seven puppies and trying to figure out which 2 I nursed last....*sigh* your dream was better.

It may be quite a bit cooler near the floor too- though right on the floor and it is impossible to gravel vac. I am not sure-what temp does the water have to stay? Low 70s? What about a small window air conditioner to turn on during hottest time of day? Might find one on craigslist. There was a thread on shrimpspot.com about how people cool their tanks. Someone had ice cubes suspended above the tank to melt slowly and drip in. Different types of fans were discussed and cooling ideas. I might end up needing to move my shrimp to a cooler area in the house for summer.


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## Sadist

I still feel that having something above the water dripping in will make the top cooler than the rest. Plus, then I'd have to have an ice cube tray only for the fish (because we aren't supposed to drink water with prime in it). 

The fish room is south facing with a big window. It's also the coolest in winter because the fireplace heat doesn't wrap around to the computer room. The hubby was already complaining about the space heater in the winter. I think I'll have to skip axolotls unless I get my dream job. (and what a night mare trying to remember who needs fed next, ha!)


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## BettaSplendid

I was thinking the filter would stir up the water. Yeah, my tanks with no water movement have a big temperature difference top to bottom! Well, maybe someday you'll move to a more axolotl-friendly house.


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## Sadist

Okay, I also wanted to add that the bleach the snail bits out trick doesn't seem to work for nerites. I may have to bury Stripey after all since I don't really want to fork the body out to keep the shell. Bleach breaks down to salt and something else when it dries, which may be why it worked on the assassin snail. Nerites breed in brackish water, so I guess it doesn't work on them too well. Maybe I'll put Stripey next to the onions. One of the tiny flowers is open today, and it smells like garlic/onion armpits


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## themamaj

Aww poor Stripey! I am so sorry. I know he was a special one. 

You all crack me up with your dreams. Oh what a great dream to take care of fish in a library! You could read all you wanted on care, new species and aquascaping on your breaks!!!!! I have dreams like I am still working at the hospital and it is time to give report to the next shift and I realize there are 20 patients I forgot to go see and chart on during the shift! 

Don't give up on dream of axolotl just yet! Check this out.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/r.html?...PBWB4VGA&ref_=pe_171640_191831630_em_1p_10_ti


It is a clip on 3 way fan cooling system for $21.99 That is comparable to buying a heater. Actually looking into it for myself for when I move to bigger tank. I haven't had time to research it yet but very intrigued and want to look into affordable cooling systems.


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## Sadist

I thought of buying two of those (one to blow on the water, one to blow the heat away from the water). I just don't think I'll be able to cool the water 10-15 degrees with the fan system! It does look like I could whip up a nice anacharis tank in the cool water, though.


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## Sadist

I forgot to mention that the heating problem in Sky's tank is fixed, and she's gone back to more or less solid turquoise-based blue. The still has a white spot on the side of her tummy, and now she has breeding stripes since the water warmed up and has a giant IAL in it.


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## themamaj

Funny how color changing back with warmer water. Theven feisty girls sure know how to show their stripes 

How are your other fish doing? I think Tequila is such a pretty color of orange. Daughter saw an orange crown tail with dark fins other day at Walmart. I was going to get it for her but I was tired and not feeling like putting up another tank that night. I didn't think she was that attached to him but was bummed out when wasn't there next time. She has been showing me pictures on web of bettas so maybe I have swayed her haha.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I would love a job like that sadist lol books and fish my two favs


same


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## Sadist

Everyone else is doing well. BlackieChat is the most amazingly nice betta I know. He only hunts tiny, food-sized things like gammarus shrimp. Tigress Jr is still hiding most of the time, so I have hope that she's taking care of babies or eggs still. The guppies are still playing together. I keep wanting to buy some females, but I'm afraid they'll either all die, bring a disease in, or overrun the house with babies.

Mrs. Fish is still just as fat'n'happy as ever. Flaring at me if I approach too quickly after lights out. She seems to be biting her rays off, though. If she gets them all off, she'll look like a plakat.

Tequila is still super sweet. He even likes my daughter. She got to help feed a few days ago, and she loves it (even with frozen food).


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## themamaj

Mrs Fish and Avalanche would make a good pair! He looks like a plakat with strings lol.


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## Sadist

Haha! Silly fish with their biting. I think Mrs. Fish is trying to be aggressive when she sees something in the 10 gallon tank. Arrrg! An oto! Must kill! Guppies die in a fire! Baby snails! Must eat!


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## AccaliaJay

Iv had a bad day. The $20 I had for saving up for a new computer was ripped away by my brothers richies puppy by chewing on the headphones I borrowed from my brother Ryan. Now I still owe Ryan $10 and I have to come home to clean. I have to fix the filters on my tanks apparently they stopped working again. Gunk on the filter cartridge stops the water flow. All my cherry shrimp are missing. There's 4 baby ghost shrimp in the tank. One could possibly be a cherry but it's huge and only has a small tinge of redness. Maybe it's the gravel or plants causing it. One of my females have clamped fins. And there's a bunch of fry in the tank. When there wasn't that many before I left. I just wanna curl up in bed and hide but nooo I have dishes. Why me when I was just gone for like a week.. I don't think my ghost shrimp are planning to die off anything soon... I was down to three now up to 7 ugh


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## AccaliaJay

To many guppies and ghost shrimp is basically what I'm saying.


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## AccaliaJay

Make that 1 baby cherry and 4 baby ghost shrimp in my 10 gallon where the adult guppies are


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## Sadist

:-( I wish someone could help out with water changes and not just feeding. I'm sure all of your tanks need a water change.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah my family only feeds and adds water when the tank water gets low. I do my moms water changes as well so I have to do her 36 gallon to. I'll have to do it on Wednesday or after. Moms dragging me out tomorrow for her penny shopping. Then early Wednesday morning my sister most likely has nurses coming to check on her again. 36 gal, 10 gal and two fives... To many tanks. I'll probably do one or two tanks one day and two on another day.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> Yeah my family only feeds and adds water when the tank water gets low. I do my moms water changes as well so I have to do her 36 gallon to. I'll have to do it on Wednesday or after. Moms dragging me out tomorrow for her penny shopping. Then early Wednesday morning my sister most likely has nurses coming to check on her again. 36 gal, 10 gal and two fives... To many tanks. I'll probably do one or two tanks one day and two on another day.


Sorry you have had such a rough day. Wish I lived closer to help you do water changes.


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## AccaliaJay

I'll feel better once my dad goes to bed and I binge on hot samurai guys in an anime. That's if my internet starts working. Problem down state and only half of the things booted back up or something of that sort. It was effecting cellphones to apparently. Fun fun. And thanks themamaj I loved that people on here are so caring. I really need to find something to do to lower my guppy count. Family keeps giving me stupid suggestions like releasing them in ponds or feeding them to my moms fish.


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## Sadist

Haha, I'm sure you'd get in huge trouble if you were caught releasing guppies in the wild! They'd take over everything, and all the native things would die. The babies can work as live food, but I found that they need to be killed first or they live their last hour in terror being chased around the tank and trying to hide. 

Are you allowed an aquabid account? Or ebay or whatever? I think you could sell some on those sites. I got turned down to be a store breeder to the store that takes care of their fish.

Stripey's body is finally out of the shell. I rinsed the shell very well and am letting it dry to work out the bleach residue. If it still smells bleachy, I'll rinse and repeat a few more times!

Tigress Jr keeps starting to come out and then hiding when she sees me looking. I guess I should have hand fed my crayfish to make them more tame or something. She's picked Tiger's old hidey hole as her favorite -- a little cave dug in the gravel under the sunken breeding net. I haven't managed to keep any plant life on the net to disguise it. I may move the IAL over to cover it a bit -- it's fallen over onto some plants that don't need to be covered up and hidden!


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## AccaliaJay

I don't have money or resources to ship. If I did I would happily ship to all my friends on here. The ones I gave my brothers girlfriend is still alive. She thinks her glofish are pregnant along with the guppies I gave her. But neither of us know much about glofish. I should look into it for her while I ignore my mothers complaints about the penny shopper she just found that cleared out two stores.


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## AccaliaJay

Glofish are egg layers. Good to know XD


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## Sadist

Good! I guess hers is just eggy? Like how bettas get eggy when they're ready to breed?

It sucks that you first need money available to start a business to make money. The customer pays shipping, but it takes time to move paypal money to the bank so you have enough money for the shipping when they order. If that makes sense. Ugg, I need a nap already


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I would prefer having money in hand to ship faster. Go take a nap. XD


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Iv had a bad day. The $20 I had for saving up for a new computer was ripped away by my brothers richies puppy by chewing on the headphones I borrowed from my brother Ryan. Now I still owe Ryan $10 and I have to come home to clean. I have to fix the filters on my tanks apparently they stopped working again. Gunk on the filter cartridge stops the water flow. All my cherry shrimp are missing. There's 4 baby ghost shrimp in the tank. One could possibly be a cherry but it's huge and only has a small tinge of redness. Maybe it's the gravel or plants causing it. One of my females have clamped fins. And there's a bunch of fry in the tank. When there wasn't that many before I left. I just wanna curl up in bed and hide but nooo I have dishes. Why me when I was just gone for like a week.. I don't think my ghost shrimp are planning to die off anything soon... I was down to three now up to 7 ugh


aww man I’m sorry. BAd days suck. Had one esterday. nothing went right. We all survive, tho.


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## Sadist

Tigress Jr was around and about quite a bit today and not being shy about it. I'm still holding on hope that she had babies before to make her hide for so long. I made sure and scattered the otos' wafers about to make sure the live food is all over the place. Just in case. I see some baby snails that need squishing, too. Extra food!


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## AccaliaJay

Glad she's okay sadist. I'm tired. Poor sleeping last night. Apparently tomarrow my sister has a speech evaluation thing. Then home free till the 25th.


----------



## BettaSplendid

It seems like she carried those eggs for a long time. I do hope they hatched! Is Blackiechat in the same tank as Jr?


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## Sadist

Yes, he is. At first, I thought she was hiding from him. She has no problems waving her claws when he swims by, though.


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## AccaliaJay

Maybe she was hiding to protect the eggs from him?


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Yes, he is. At first, I thought she was hiding from him. She has no problems waving her claws when he swims by, though.


I love how laid back he is. I could probably put a CPO in with Simeon. What is the worst he would do? Build it a bubble nest? He actually leaves the ghost shrimp alone now. He will swim up and look at them and they poke him in the face with their long arms and then he swims away.


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## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> Maybe she was hiding to protect the eggs from him?


That's what I'm hoping. They supposedly have eggs for several weeks, then carry around the babies for several more weeks.



BettaSplendid said:


> I love how laid back he is. I could probably put a CPO in with Simeon. What is the worst he would do? Build it a bubble nest? He actually leaves the ghost shrimp alone now. He will swim up and look at them and they poke him in the face with their long arms and then he swims away.


He is! I see a damaged scale, though. I'm not sure if he got stuck somewhere or stayed too close to the cpo. Uh-oh his first flare! I was playing with the guppies, and he flared at them to get in the play. He's got a little girly beard compared to his body size.


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## AccaliaJay

Lol the crayfish sound interesting.


----------



## themamaj

I sure miss seeing the crays wave their little claws around. Tigress Jr is such a cutie. Hope you have new babies!!


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## AccaliaJay

Baby baby! Lol gimme some baby sorry rough sleep last night + early wake up call + hitting 603 followers on wattpad = crazy fun happy person


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Baby baby! Lol gimme some baby sorry rough sleep last night + early wake up call + hitting 603 followers on wattpad = crazy fun happy person


oh you’re on wattpad? You write?? I do, too!!


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## AccaliaJay

I write like crazy. It sucks writing with my phone though


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## Sadist

I hope there are babies somewhere! I'll have to refind the article about iodine for freshwater crayfish molting and find info on how it impacts other aquatic life. The article didn't mention dwarf crayfish at all, but I assume they have the same molting problems as big ones. I recall it pointing out that if the crayfish dies for no reason from a molting problem, it was probably iodine deficient.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Well let's hope you get lots of babies. How many eggs can they have at a time?


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## Sadist

I'm not sure. I didn't see too many fertilized ones when I saw them. Maybe 4 or 5.


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## Sadist

Here we go: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_3/crayfish_basics.htm I do add algae wafers for the otos 1-2 times a week, and she eats those. Looking at the ingredient list, I may have to figure out a way to make algae wafers with my spirulina powder :-D The article does mention 1/2 dose of marine iodine from the pet store 1/week should do the trick.


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## AccaliaJay

Hopefully they all hatched!


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I write like crazy. It sucks writing with my phone though


Really? Cool!! What’s your user? I’ll check out your books. I have nine projects going right now + school. Insane, but I love it. I write sci-fi/fantasy/teen fic. And the occasional star wars fic. *Cough cough* *Casually types to the beat of P!ATD memories* I have a bad habit of overdoing word count, tho. Editing is a demon sent from satan.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I write boyxboy stories so you don't have to read them if your not into that kind of thing I go under PhantomSlayer. Pic is pretty dark with a girl and blood colored dress. Like a demon feel lol.


----------



## Sadist

I didn't even know there was a place to put your books online! I used to write, but the thought of all the contacting publishers and stuff makes me want to hide under my desk.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I have no plans to publish. My books are horrible XD wattpad just write and publish onto the site for the fun of it. People seem to love my alpha series. There are some talented writers on there. JadedViolet is one. rotXinXpieces is the greatest boyxboy writer I know on there so far. PrinceKenzie is pretty good with her boyXboy stories. I believes there's even some actual published authors on wattpad. Although I think that's a bit unfair to us unpublished but whatever XD

And wattpad is free to use so win! Lol


----------



## Sadist

Awesome!

Okay, here's Jr being a cpo today. Watch out, Blackiechat! She's gonna getcha!

Also, the last day I took a picture of Sky's marble adventure. You can see her white lipstick. She's back to solid, now, with a splash of red on her anal.


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## AccaliaJay

Awesome pictures!


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## Sadist

They're a bit dark, but thanks! I didn't want to make everyone nervous, so I opted for dark and blurry.

I really should go shrimp shopping today.


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## AccaliaJay

What kind of shrimp you want?


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## Sadist

I think ghost shrimp would do okay. I'd really love something more colorful, but I can only order those online. My tummy problems are bad today, though, so I came straight home without stopping at a store. Going to try for a nap or at least some relaxing reading on the couch before I get the daughter from school.


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## AccaliaJay

To bad you don't live closer I would happily give you my 4 baby ghost shrimp and adults if you wanted lol i unfortunately can't get anymore cherry shrimp. After bills and stuff my mom doesn't have a lot of money left to order stuff. so unless petco or meijers start carrying them I won't be getting any anytime soon. I'm heavily debating whether to put off getting a new laptop to change one of my tanks into live planted. I seen meijers carrys plants for sale in their tanks so I do have the option of buying from there without driving 2 hours to petco. Meijers is like 30 minutes away so... But I also would want to change out my gravel and I don't know what to get for a live planted tank.. I don't even know what tank I would try. 

I have an update from my brothers girlfriends guppy/glofish tank. The female guppies apparently love the skull decoration inside the tank. Her tank is a glass 5 gallon with a trio of guppies and two glofish. We were worried the glofish would attack the guppies but their apparently doing well.

Also get well soon!


----------



## AccaliaJay

I got a penn plax air tech air pump for my bubbler. Hopefully i can get it into Libertys tank. I think the guppies have way to much more than him. I mean he doesn't have a filter so... Hopefully the cords reach.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> I didn't even know there was a place to put your books online! I used to write, but the thought of all the contacting publishers and stuff makes me want to hide under my desk.


ditto! I’m bound and determined to get a career in writer, tho. NOt backing down.
Anyways, my watt pad user is Nevermore-Raven, and shock surprise, a betta is my pic. I have a writers-help sort of journal, a Kylo Ren fanfic, and a historical fic about WW2. I keep my sci-fi and fantasy to myself because I plan on publishing.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I have no plans to publish. My books are horrible XD wattpad just write and publish onto the site for the fun of it. People seem to love my alpha series. There are some talented writers on there. JadedViolet is one. rotXinXpieces is the greatest boyxboy writer I know on there so far. PrinceKenzie is pretty good with her boyXboy stories. I believes there's even some actual published authors on wattpad. Although I think that's a bit unfair to us unpublished but whatever XD
> 
> And wattpad is free to use so win! Lol


Yeah it’s annoying when the BIG writers make clubs and stuff. It’s like, dudes, you’ve already conquered.


----------



## Sadist

What a day so far! Went to kiddo's school to watch her do field day. Went to do errands, and the bank card is acting up. Had to pay everything (including gas!) with emergency cash. It was so awkward paying gas with cash. "Umm, here's the money to get started; I'll get my change when it's full." The cashier at least teased me a bit and pretended he couldn't give a refund. Poor guy's probably bored to death in there.

Sky's green algae on the glass is getting out of control. I'll need to scrub it. I wish it was nice, soft, brown algae for Ramsy. Ramsy didn't seem like itself the last time I saw it, either. I wonder if stripey's condition was contagious to other snails.

So I got all that stuff done, now to sit down and pay the dental bill and relax as the storm clouds roll in. I'm glad the kindergarten field day is over; the kiddo's decided she's scared of storms and freaks out when a cloud moves at all. I feel bad that the afternoon field day may be postponed until another day if it starts raining. There are a lot of parent volunteers helping out with the stations, and it's not exactly easy for everyone to get time off work. One guy was there in his work uniform.


----------



## Sadist

My daughter's friend is going through a real rough part of her life right now. I'd appreciate it if everyone kept her in thoughts and prayers while she deals with this. Her mom made a facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BrynleesBattle/ There's a gofundme link in the group somewhere if you wish to contribute. Prayers and thoughts are welcome.


----------



## AccaliaJay

My mom went crazy lol my dad lied to her and said the man selling a camper wouldn't pick up and she got extremely depressed. And when he got home he took my sister and looked out the window and my mom booked it to the window and started whacking my dad on the arm lol. She was so excited seeing it and instantly went outside but my dad said he forgot where he put the keys. It's pretty big from the pictures my mom showed me. Like 5 or 6 beds.


----------



## BettaSplendid

I am sorry for your daughter's friend! I can't read the link since I don't have facebook, but I will be thinking of her. How is your daughter doing? Is the problem affecting her?  They're so young to have to deal with problems. *sigh*


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> My daughter's friend is going through a real rough part of her life right now. I'd appreciate it if everyone kept her in thoughts and prayers while she deals with this. Her mom made a facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BrynleesBattle/ There's a gofundme link in the group somewhere if you wish to contribute. Prayers and thoughts are welcome.



What a very difficult thing to go through. I read through many of the posts. A beautiful, sweet little girl with such a fighting spirit! I have actually heard of the genetic disorder. If I understand correctly, she had surgery to help her legs become more stable and because of the disorder, the epidural anesthesia had to be placed higher than normal in her spine causing a paralysis? It sounds as there are some very good signs of improvement. I will definitely be praying for Brynlee and her family that God would be very near to them right now as they are going through this and that Brynlee be able to walk again. So touched as read how she asked her mom if she could do gymnastics. I have a tender heart towards children with genetic disorders. My son had a very rare genetic disorder and if he had lived I know we would have also walked a very hard path that many parents with chronically ill children face. Thoughts and prayers to this sweet family. I am thinking of your daughter as well as I am sure that is very hard seeing a friend go through something so scary. Please keep us posted on her progress.


----------



## Sadist

As far as I know, the doctors say the spinal injury is unrelated to the epidural but was from some movement they did while she was under.

I haven't told my daughter everything Brynlee is going through. I did tell her she had surgery and is in a cast all summer. We were going to go visit. It took me a few days to figure out a nice way to explain the spinal injury without freaking her out. I told her there was a complication with the surgery, and Brynlee is stick in Ohio for the summer while she gets better. I don't want to mention the paralysis to her until we know one way or another. There are good signs that she could recover, but it will be a struggle. To top it off, they still have to do surgery on her other hip/knee with 6 more weeks of cast. They were originally planning for the 12 weeks of cast (at home) and then rehab to get her walking again. Now, they have to deal with the paralysis problem, too. I think her bone problems were becoming bad enough that she would lose the ability to walk eventually without the surgery. Hard choices.

She really is a sweet girl, too. She has a smile and hug for everyone.

Jr out and about! The guppies are near her, and she's waving her claws around. I broke apart some algae wafers for her and the otos, and now she's munching on that. Since I don't have a full shoal of otos, algae wafer day is the only time I see them without searching forever.

I'm still toying with the idea of getting some girlfriends for the guppy boys. I'd have to get quite a few to have enough and have them survive and have Blackiechat okay with more tankmates. Of course, I still haven't been out to look at the local shrimp. Maybe I should work on that first.


----------



## Sadist

Here's what AQAdvisor has to say about my 10 gallon set up:



> Warning: Dwarf Orange Crayfish is too aggressive to co-exist with Oto.
> Suggestion: If you want to keep more than 1 Guppy, minimum recommend male to female ratio is 1:2 (M:F). You will be less likely to experience problem if you get even more females.
> Warning: Dwarf Orange Crayfish is too aggressive to co-exist with Guppy.
> Warning: Guppy is not recommended to be with Betta [Male] - male betta may attack a male guppy by mistake thinking he is another male betta.
> Note: Dwarf Orange Crayfish is capable of killing and eating most smaller bottom dwelling species especially during the night. Be careful when you are selecting other species to go along with this species. They have to be each given their own hiding spots, and the tank must be decorated with that in mind.
> Note: Betta [Male] may jump - lids are recommended. They can become stressful under presence of too many shoaling species. Try to keep under 1 shoal if the tank is small. Individual bettas may exhibit varying degrees of aggression and care should be taken that exceptionally aggressive/territorial fish be separated from a community before any damage may occur.
> Warning: Betta [Male] will likely to fin nip Guppy.
> Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Guppy - further research is highly recommended.
> Warning: Dwarf Orange Crayfish is too aggressive to co-exist with Betta [Male].
> Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Dwarf Orange Crayfish - further research is highly recommended.
> 
> Recommended temperature range: 24 - 27 C. [Display in Farenheit]
> Recommended pH range: 6.8 - 7.8.
> Recommended hardness range: 5 - 15 dH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.
> 
> Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 190%.Help on Filtration capacity
> Recommended water change schedule: 34% per week.
> Your aquarium stocking level is 108%. [Generate Image]Help on Generate Image


I guess I'll just leave it alone and keep the water clean.


----------



## themamaj

I have had to laugh a couple of times on there as see all those same warnings. Every species I like comes with a warning lol. 

Would be neat to see some guppy fry again


----------



## Sadist

If I do get some girls, I will just let them give birth out in the tank and whatever survives the other inhabitants survives. I imagine most of the runty ones would go first the way I did it artificially, with one or two survivals (again, how it happened with all my tampering).

Wow, those otos are very vigorous with the wafers! Quivering all over as they grind them up. 

Those warnings are funny. I wonder what would happen if I added frogs to it. "Frogs may eat guppies, dwarf CPO might catch frog, betta may nip frog, frog might eat oto." So silly. Too bad none of them ear eating the pond snail outbreak. They just swim by as if the baby snails weren't there. I guess I have to be mean and squish a bunch, let Jr eat them. Mrs. Fish is also ignoring her pond snails, which is so strange after her extreme aggression with Stripey.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I sometimes think about getting otos. They sound so interesting. I always say getting female guppies is worth it eventually.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> If I do get some girls, I will just let them give birth out in the tank and whatever survives the other inhabitants survives. I imagine most of the runty ones would go first the way I did it artificially, with one or two survivals (again, how it happened with all my tampering).
> 
> Wow, those otos are very vigorous with the wafers! Quivering all over as they grind them up.
> 
> Those warnings are funny. I wonder what would happen if I added frogs to it. "Frogs may eat guppies, dwarf CPO might catch frog, betta may nip frog, frog might eat oto." So silly. Too bad none of them ear eating the pond snail outbreak. They just swim by as if the baby snails weren't there. I guess I have to be mean and squish a bunch, let Jr eat them. Mrs. Fish is also ignoring her pond snails, which is so strange after her extreme aggression with Stripey.



Yeah it is the snails we want gone they won't touch lol. That is a positive I thought about when contemplated a dwarf puffer because they eat snails. I thought I would have unlimited food for life! 

Do you know any good ways to combat hair algae? Goliath's tank the plants have taken off and looking good but unfortunately I can't keep the hair algae at bay. I thought the CO2 and the intense plant growth would choke it out but no luck. Have tried pruning everything with it on it but it comes right back.


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## Sadist

I don't have personal aquaintance with that type of algae. I all know is from reading articles like http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=712 which pretty much say what you're doing. They do mention something to add to the filter to take out phosphates and nitrates. Do you fertilize? Maybe less fertilizer since the algae is using some of it? It also mentions to change the light bulb every year even if it's still working and using only plant light bulbs. 

Funny about the snail eaters! I thought about getting another assassin snail, but I'm afraid everyone would pick him to death again.


----------



## Sadist

We'll try to remember purple on Sunday this year.

Brynlee is showing symptoms of a pressure ulcer and is on her way to get part of her cast removed. Please, keep her and her family in your thoughts as she has to deal with all this!


----------



## Sadist

I miss having a male crowntail http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettasct&1463242207 Look at him! Oh the moneys.


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## BettaSplendid

Couldn't resist that crowntail if I saw him for sale locally! Gorgeous boy.


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## Sadist

Same here. I don't see that coloring locally.


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## Sadist

We had a great birthday party for my daughter. Only one friend showed up, but she liked the 1 on 1 attention better than a whole bunch of people.

Also a few shots of gorgeous Tequila Sunrise and his green algae that I need to scrub. A couple shots of the 10 gallon, too.


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## BettaSplendid

Happy Birthday!!! Such sweet pictures.  Did she get to go in the wind tunnel?

Tequila is SO HANDSOME! He is really a lovely color.


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## Sadist

She did. That's they whole reason we went to Chuck E Cheese! Silly girl. The pictures I have in there have her friend in them, and I haven't heard back from her parents if it's okay to show pictures of her or not.


----------



## Sadist

We went hiking today and found a puddle of tadpoles! Daughter and I had a blast playing with them and moved a few to a puddle with more mosquito wigglers. I don't have time to try to id the tadpoles right now. Cooking dinner and clean up afterwards was as much free time as I was allowed  We also saw frog eggs in another puddle and lots of mosquito larvae.


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## BettaSplendid

Fun stuff! Kids love tad poles.  A week ago I saw some huge ones! At least 2 inches long and they didn't even have legs yet.


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## themamaj

A very Happy Birthday to your daughter!! She looks so cute and love her hair! It has taken me until daughter 15 to learn to french braid lol. I still can't do it as well as she can on her own hair. Chuck E Cheese awwwh. My kids always loved going there. I bet the wind tunnel is super fun to do! 

What fun to find tad poles. It sounds like you all had a great day together. Very special 

Tequilla is stunning. His tail is as long as Chance's.


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## Sadist

Tequila let me pet him today! He kept looking for food even though I'd just fed him two minutes before that. I can't even call him a fatty since he's got that old man skinny thing going on!


----------



## Sadist

Some news about Brynlee. I'm not sure if she has feeling yet.



> Some positive news to share!
> 1. Brynlee's sore has healed and she can now spend some short times outside her bed!
> 2. Brynlee can wiggle her feet. Not her toes, but can wiggle those beautiful feet when they are suspended!
> 3. She can pull her right lower leg behind her, almost like she is kicking a ball behind her foot! This has only been tested in her right leg since the other is fully casted. She can't quite push it forward, but backwards seems to work just fine when she's lying sideways in bed.
> We can't wait to get this cast off and see what's next!
> I've been thinking about how her injury is at T2, just under her shoulders. An inch higher and Brynlee would have lost the use of her arms too. Definitely something to be very grateful for!
> Brynlee is having a good time visiting with her cousins, baking (and eating) cupcakes, playing on the tablet, and being silly. Ready for rehab and our next chapter to begin soon, but hoping for a visit from big brother first!


----------



## themamaj

How neat Tequila let you pet him. Chance will semi tolerate it a little but mostly gives me this look like "get your hand off me you crazy woman" lol. 

Such good news to hear improvements for Brynlee.


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## BettaSplendid

So glad to hear of the improvement in daughter's friend!! And good for Tequila! I petted Lemondrop and Lady Red this morning, after watching how much they enjoy son doing it. They just pause and let me gently rub their sides and tail.  Who would think fish would like that?? Bettas are certainly thoughtful and curious little things.


----------



## Sadist

I tried to pet Sky, but she flared at my finger. The guppies come bump into me during water changes, but I'm not sure if they're nipping or petting themselves or what. Mrs. Fish grabs on and tries to rip a piece of me off.


----------



## ThatFishThough

My sorority girls are becoming Mrs. Fish, numbers 2-10. I got bloodworms for them, and our new game is seeing how many girls can hold my finger to get a bloodworm.

*sigh* Your fish is rubbing off on them. LOOK WHAT YOUVE DONE!!


----------



## Sadist

Haha! I would have never known. Mrs. Fish is scared of things from the side of her aquarium, even after having her home for a year. Anything in the water is "Rawr, let me hear you scream!" *bite, shake*


----------



## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> I tried to pet Sky, but she flared at my finger. The guppies come bump into me during water changes, but I'm not sure if they're nipping or petting themselves or what. *Mrs. Fish grabs on and tries to rip a piece of me off.*


:shock:



OMG









*nervous laughter*


----------



## themamaj

ROFL...Mrs Fish is so funny! She needs a little sign warning...enter the water at your own risk. Haha


----------



## ThatFishThough

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/orname...-catid-300071?var_id=36-20859&_t=pfm=category


----------



## Sadist

Haha, for sure!


----------



## BettaSplendid

Zoomed makes a "beware of betta" sign. Zadok has one.


----------



## Sadist

I should just write "beware of fish" on her tank and see if she goes berserk or hides. Haha, it's bloodworm day, and she's hanging out at the feeding area again, seeing if I'll drop more in! And, there goes the thermometer. Bad thermometer near the bloodworm area!


----------



## ThatFishThough

I have some of thos glass marker things, and my girls literally go insane when I write on the glass.


On the bloodworm note, one of my girls ate a few too many bloodworms, too.  *mutters* Bad Rei.... 


She's not to happy about being in the breeders box. As in, she's trying to jump out. But I don't want her to knock the container over, because it has Espom Salts, and that will hurt my Cories. Ugh, bettas some times.


----------



## themamaj

How are all the fishes doing today?


----------



## Sadist

They're doing okay for now! It looks like one of the guppies' tails is nipped a bit. I wonder if Blackiechat is the culprit :-( 

The girls are both fine, and Tequila is gorgeous as always. Today was blood worm day again, so everyone is coming to feeding area whenever they see me in hopes of more. Their bellies get so big on bloodworm day as it is! No, you will all wait until dinnertime for more!

While looking for some females for Shade, I saw a gorgeous copper male. The way the copper plays out on him, he looks like he has lavander scales (with pineapple edges!) and pink fins with a purple edging. I so wanted to bring him home for the daughter as those are her two favorite colors! I already have one more tank than the hubby is comfortable with running, so no new tanks. I'd have to get rid of someone. Multiple someones, really, and move all the plants from the hospital tank somewhere else.


----------



## BettaSplendid

That sounds beautiful. I am just like, "I got a new fish" lol Husband got desensitized after #5. He realizes it is all his fault, too, poor guy. He is the one who bought Twinkie. I kept trying to talk Daughter out of wanting a fish!


----------



## Sadist

Our house gets so cold in the winter that it really costs an arm and a leg to keep the fish tanks warm. He originally grumped about getting a cold water fish, and then I pointed out that our house is in the 80's in the summer, which would require a cooling system. He was the same way with the cat we fostered, didn't like the smell or attention the cat got, etc. He got excited when he saw the guppies chasing each other in hopes one would eat the other. I told them those types of fish are all bonded and would die if the other one died. He was hoping Blackiechat would go on a killing rampage. I should have gotten the black copper girl back then -- maybe she would have slaughtered the tank the way Mrs. Fish kills everything.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> They're doing okay for now! It looks like one of the guppies' tails is nipped a bit. I wonder if Blackiechat is the culprit :-(
> 
> The girls are both fine, and Tequila is gorgeous as always. Today was blood worm day again, so everyone is coming to feeding area whenever they see me in hopes of more. Their bellies get so big on bloodworm day as it is! No, you will all wait until dinnertime for more!
> 
> While looking for some females for Shade, I saw a gorgeous copper male. The way the copper plays out on him, he looks like he has lavander scales (with pineapple edges!) and pink fins with a purple edging. I so wanted to bring him home for the daughter as those are her two favorite colors! I already have one more tank than the hubby is comfortable with running, so no new tanks. I'd have to get rid of someone. Multiple someones, really, and move all the plants from the hospital tank somewhere else.


I feel your pain. Gosh, space is such an issue with my family right now.


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## themamaj

Hubbies just don't get the MTS do they?! Copper sound really pretty. That's neat my daughter likes pink and purple too. I went to get filters today and saw some beautiful orange and white guppies. I ponder having them again periodically. I guess you need big tank for guppies + bettas.


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## Sadist

I've decided that 30 gallons would be best for breeding guppies. Lots of room for all the babies, and just have lots of java moss and water sprite and hornwort and maybe some pothos roots for hiding.


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## themamaj

I think you are right. Sounds like that would be good set up. 

Watched some YouTube videos today on how to make money with fish hobby. Not sure I could ever do that but would be neat to make a living doing something so fun.


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## Sadist

I'd love to as well. I'd had hopes of selling the guppies I bred, ha! Poor Cornelius looks nothing like his parents.

They sprung early dismissal on us after the Kindergarten program today. I'm not sure what to do; I had a bunch of work I'd planned that I probably won't be able to do!


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## themamaj

Understand that. Been trying to get stuff done before grandson comes Thurs.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah never plan to not upgrade cue 5 gallon with almost 20 juvenile guppy fry and 10 gallon with 30+ Adult and baby guppies. Tank maintenance is a huge pain. I'm kind of been thinking about giving a few guppy fry to my moms gouramis to see if they eat them but then I think " well what if that guppy grows up to be very pretty" and it's just like ugh I would feel bad. So it's still a pondering thought. I bet if they were small ones liberty would happily eat them but you know I would feel bad lol. I shall just hope for some reason my females just stop popping out 10-20 babies at a time. I think my next fish will be an egg later of some sort lol. That way I can tell how many possible babies there will be


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## themamaj

Sounds like your females breed very well and good success of fry. Understand though how wouldn't take long to be overwhelmed with many new mouths to feed. Will any of your local stores buy fry?


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## Sadist

A new Brynlee update:



> Melissa Ames Thompson
> 2 hrs ·
> GoFundMe
> Each day we feel like Brynlee continues to make small gains. Her scheduled caths have smaller output, her toes can wiggle, and there are small improvements in her measured movements in Physical Therapy. Inpatient rehabilitation begins next week and we look forward to learning what she can do with her cast off, and focusing on what areas we need to work on to make gains towards walking again. We remain hopeful!
> 
> This page has now been shared 1000 times! Thank you so much to each person who is praying for her and supporting her and us. It is a tremendous feeling knowing that there are so many who love Brynlee and are pulling for her recovery. Thank you!! ‪#‎brynleesbattle‬


We went out to a sandy park and helped with some sand castles, and now she wants to stay home until swim lessons. It gave me time to get a sandwich and the dishwasher started. Now, onto laundry!


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## AccaliaJay

I have way to good of luck and I don't get to go anywhere to ask. Iv already tried asking my mom but she rarely goes near the petstores. Even if I wanted to go right now I'm sick. My nieces and nephew gave me a nasty painful cold or flu or something. I just wanna curl up in front of a fan cause our warm weather here is not helping. This is why I hate babysitting them they never tell me when their sick and 90% of the time they have runny noses or are coughing and their parents slack on teaching them to cough or sneeze into their arm or tissue. It's a habit for me. I don't miss going to school to many sicknesses to come at ya. Sorry I complain a lot when I'm sick. And it's always worse when it's hot out I hate being hot unless it's from blankets or snuggling with my dog.. I believe it reached 80 something today


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## Sadist

Hang in there! I hate being sick, too. 

I see the guppies are overly interested in Jr while she eats a pellet from the gravel. Maybe she's the culprit for the fin damage!


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## AccaliaJay

I'm trying my parents are thankfully taking it easy on me. Well besides having tacos for dinner. My taste buds are messed up to x.x can guppys cause fin damage to themselves? Iv always wondered that. They could also have had a small squabble I read some guppies take a nip or two for reasons


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## themamaj

I hope you feel better AccaliaJay! 

I see guppies with nips a lot in fins at pet stores. Do they nip at each other much? Now Tigress I can see haha! Look out guppies or claws are coming out. Aw makes me think of when Max took one of my crays on a ride through the tank. Miss that guy.

Park and sand castles sounds fun. Glad you got a little housework in too. Never ending is it????!!! Been working on laundry all day too. Some how it keeps multiplying. Such good news on Brynlee.


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## AccaliaJay

ThAnks themamaj.


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## Sadist

I figured the nipping guppy fins would be over once they establish who's who. Maybe they need a pecking order. The nips aren't worse today, and since this is the first I've seen them, I assumed they were from outside the bonded guppy pair. They still display to each other and try to mate every minute they aren't swimming around and inspecting the tank.

I see tons of baby snails again. I think I'll have to do the lettuce trick. Overnight, I recall they found it even though it was floating with the salvinia. In fact, I see a lot of them up there eating salvinia, and I see Blackiechat hunt through it and eat (gammarus shrimp and baby snails are living in it).

Sky has been swimming funny lately. I thought at first, she was doing a new feeding dance, but I've seen her swimming that way when I'm not near the tank, too. It looks like swim bladder problems. She still looks eggy, too. I'm not sure if I should treat her with meds or just fast her for a few days or epsom salts.


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## Sadist

I did a little 10% water change for Sky, mostly sucking up missed poo and some rotting vegetation I missed in the corners. I need to trim off the bad leaves on her anubias, too, but I don't have the energy right now. I treated her tank with Kordon fish protector and some paraguard (which is supposedly also a broad range mild fungus and antibacterial agent of some sort). She's still super fiesty and hungry, just having swimming issues. I plan to buy some more wisteria to fill up some of the space in there. I'm thinking about peace lillies, too, since petco has some baby ones for sale in little cups of water. I need to look for some of those tiny shower caddy things or maybe a small breeder box to hold the roots and keep the leaves out of the water.


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## themamaj

You could try her in an Epson salt bath and set her next to one of boys. Sometimes seeing the other will get those flares going and they poop pretty quick. Have used that trick on some of mine when had some mild swim bladder issues. 

What is the lettuce trick for snails?


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## Sadist

She flared at me today with no poop. I might try some epsom salts.

To get rid of the latest batch of unwanted snails, (sink) some lettuce in the tank and let sit for a few hours (or overnight for me). The lettuce will be covered in snails and can be removed and disposed of. Since my fish think assassin snails make great snacks, it's what I have to do when there are too many pond snails. There will always be a few leftover, but it keeps them from spiking the parameters so bad with large numbers.


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## themamaj

What a great tip!!!! Definitely will try that. Thank you!!!!


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## Sadist

No problem!


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## ShadeSlayer

Good news on Brynlee! I’m praying for her. 
Feel better soon, @AccaliaJay


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## Sadist

I gave Sky a bath and flare with Tequila all in one. She has the cutest little blue beard with red wash! She did poop, but it didn't help her. When I first put her in the bath, her eyes looked puffy and cloudy. I'm not sure if it was a trick of the light because they looked normal after the bath. I only saw it in the sunlight from above while I was moving her bath cup around. Tequila was flaring all over, too. He has such a gorgeous, orange beard! I need to scrub the algae from both tanks. 

Today's the last day of school! Half the class isn't there. I surprised the kiddo with a happy meal at lunch time. She was so excited and happy, but she was clingy and had trouble saying goodbye. I had a ton more boring work errand things to finish, and by the time I was done, it was recess time. I think I'll go over there now for an early dismissal even though it's just 30 minutes early!


----------



## ShadeSlayer

have you ever thought about breeding Tequila?


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## Sadist

I got him from Walmart, and he seems a bit on the old side. His swim bladder makes a little bump under his skinny backside, too. He's beautiful, but I don't know enough about his background to breed him. Plus, with my luck I'd end up with 500 fry an no homes available to them. They wouldn't last through the winter as cold as the house gets. Plus, my girls are both crowntails, that that would make funny fish.


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## ShadeSlayer

ahhhhh, gotcha.


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## Sadist

I suppose if I had the right kind of female (I'm not sure what color to breed him with!) and the room, I would. I'd really like to breed them some day, but we just don't have the space, time, or money for such a big project!

Poor Sky :-( She's just as feisty and hungry (and begging for more since I severely rationed her today), but she's having problems. I wish I had noticed sooner. After two snail deaths in there over the past 3 weeks, I suspect something yucky is in her tank.


----------



## Sadist

I thought Mrs. Fish was watching me type, but it turns out that she's watching Sky from 5 feet away. No wonder she's biting her points off if she can see Sky! She also goes bonkers when she can see the guppies or Blackiechat the other way.

I put a rooibos tea bag into Sky's water to darken it up a bit. She has an IAL in there, but it's old and not setting off tannins any more. She's still struggling to swim upwards, and I'm continuing the paraguard (day 3). I'll do another salt bath in the afternoon. Today is back to basic Omega One frozen community formula, which is pretty much carnivore food with garlic and vitamins. I'm hoping the garlic will help her out. Fed very sparingly again.

Daughter's covering her wall with stickers. Hubby bought her decals once, so she got the idea into her head that she can put whatever sticker she wants on the wall. I don't mind. She'll get to clean them all off when she wants to change her room as a teen. And scrub all the people she drew when I forgot her bag of stickers has crayons in it.


----------



## Sadist

We found a dead baby bird while playing outside and buried it with the sweet onions.

Oh my, I lost track of time. The tea bag is still in Sky's tank! IT doesn't look overly dark for that amount of time, and I hope it helps. She found a plant to rest on just under it (instead of in the sand like she's been doing the past few days).


----------



## Sadist

Aww, look what a friend posted on facebook.


----------



## themamaj

Awww rescued alpaca soooo precious!


----------



## themamaj

Awww rescued alpaca soooo precious! Mrs Fish does not surprise me. Lol just love her feisty personality. Sure hope Sky does better. So frustrating when trying all these things an can't get response hope for. Does the tea have same properties as IAL? I need to try some of it if can find it. Daughter sounds so cute with stickers. My grandson did same thing creating some Stars Wars collage on Wall. I don't stress over it either. So sweet you surprised her with lunch. Maybe one day this summer I can get down that way and you can help me on doubletail plakat search or the quest to find Coconut a friend.


----------



## Sadist

I hope so!

I'm not sure if the tea has all the same properties, but I know it does make the water darker to help with stress.

Good news for Brynlee! Her first day of in-hospital pt stuff begins tomorrow, and the home therapist has confirmed her current movements. She says she'll have to work really hard on getting enough strength to stand and is hopeful that walking will be doable after that first hurdle.


----------



## BettaSplendid

That baby paca prancing off with its Suri mama.... Soooo adorable. 

Poor Sky! I am sorry  We're all having a rough time this week, huh?


----------



## themamaj

Such good news on Brynlee!


----------



## Sadist

Sky didn't come out for breakfast, but I found her on her leaf with her head right by the surface. Her eyes moved around and found me when I offered her tiny bit of food, and she ate it. She's wobbling around the tank, now. Sides still smooth. She pooped, and I got her to gill my finger, then she sank down to the bottom. No gasping or gill discoloration. I wish I had stronger medicine home already :-/


----------



## BettaSplendid

Aaaaaw, I am sorry! That is awful. Makes you feel helpless... I do not know what would cause that either.


----------



## themamaj

Poor Sky. Hang in there.


----------



## Sadist

I'm thinking some sort of bacterial infection that the snails came down with and spread to her. Something that needs better medicine than I have. I could go with 10 days of epsom salt in the aquarium and see if it helps.

She came out for dinner and is flittering around as best as she can after her little bite. I'm hoping the garlic will help as well as the kordon fish herbal stuff and the paraguard I've been running. It's just taking a bit of time. She also hasn't grown to full size, so maybe she's going through problems that stunted fish go through. I hope not.


----------



## themamaj

Good sign that eating. I think all treatments doing will help. Oh one more thing that helps boost immunity is Culturelle the probiotic. If you happen to have some on hand you can break open capsule and sprinkle some on frozen food.


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## Sadist

I have some sort of probiotic. It's got flaxseed in it, though. I'll check the rest of the ingredients and see if it could be helpful.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I'm better now. My mom and sister in law had a garage sale going this weekend with all their penny and clearance stuff so iv been in charge of watching my sister. She is a beast. She kicks hard and she intentionally tanks my hair.. Yesturday they made over $300. She hasn't counted today's. She said she would pay me $10 but I think I might ask her to buy me substrate so I can start on working towards a planted tank. I'm just having a few issues. Natural colored gravel, dirt or sand? And where can I find it lol. Iv heard sand gets gas bubble build ups. I do have an assassin snail I heard they can dig down but then I don't know if I would like sand.. But then again shouldn't you choose your substrate based on lighting so your tank doesn't look to dark when plants are in. My ten gallon is unknown since I was given it by my brothers gfs mothers boyfriend (mouth full to say) I bought my two five gallons off walmart so I'll have to look up the post to see if they give what kind of lighting is on them. And one of my tanks can get a lot of natural sunlight if I let it... Aghhh i dunno


----------



## AccaliaJay

And another thing can to much natural light cause a tank waters to look green? Libertys tank is looking green and the only thing different is my curtain hasn't been shut all the way letting in sunlight and now there's green algae on the fake plants. I think he needs a full tank clean bleh. Enough about me. 

Sadist I hope Sky gets better soon. And glad Brynlee is working on getting better to. (Is that how you spell it XD same name as my neice) and I didn't want to say anything about tail nipping cause I would feel like a bad owner if someone said it's my fault but in my guppy tank all the longer tailed males have like a rugged tail look. There's been only like one or two shorter tails that rarely seem to get a bit look like bitten kind of deal look. And my 10 gallon only has guppies, ghost shrimp, one possible cherry and snails. (I keep glancing at my tank while writing and two ghost shrimp are trying to play tug o war with a dead juvenile guppy. I can't find the energy to take it away anymore lately everyweek one or two guppies die and I think it's of something maybe internal since nothing really seems wrong with the tank no symtoms either)


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## Sadist

I had the same problems with guppies! Someone suggested siphoning the water back in instead of pouring it as if they were delicate shrimp. The ones that survived are the tough ones.

I've heard of growing green water in the window, so maybe that's what's happening in your tank. Gotta either back off on the light or stick some nice fast-growing high light plants in there to out compete the algae I think.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I'll probably do a full tank clean after I fix the curtain. Scrub off the plants really well


----------



## Sadist

Sky's tank is getting green algae on the glass and some plants, now. I need to stuff it full of roots again. I think I killed off the mealy bug infestation, so it's just choosing which plant. Maybe I'll get some breeder boxes and set up an herb garden! I wonder if you have to sprout the herbs first or if you can stick the seeds right on the substrate in there. And scrubbing, lots of scrubbing.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol ohhh the scrubbing!


----------



## Sadist

With Sky in the way! Hard to keep from squishing her into the wall. "What's this? Something to kill or to eat?"


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol run away! Don't attack the hand that feeds ya!! (Not that it would hurt any)


----------



## AccaliaJay

Going with my mom to meijers ima look at gravel and maybe see what bettas they have. Probably won't buy a betta though atleast hopefully not or I'll have to overload my 10 with more fry and juviniles from my spare 5 gallon. I shall try to resist anymore fish.


----------



## Sadist

Look look look, don't touch! Even though you want it so much!

Ugg, I'm too old to know all these silly cartoon songs! The joys of motherhood.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol I know I can look but not touch. But what if theirs one that's not a veil tail or a crown tail it's gonna make resisting even harder. I havnt got gravel in so long I forgot what size bag I'll need if I do find one. Hopefully it's cheap.. $11 and some change is all I have. Maybe I can ask my mom to help cover the rest if it goes a little over. That's if they have any though.. They'll probably only have that glofish gravel with the black and random colors. I'm looking for a natural color. Like browns, Greys,whites, maybe black. We shall just have to see what they have though.


----------



## AccaliaJay

No gravel that I want. However it was a huge fight to stop myself from getting some more bettas lol. Even though they were all veil and crowns there was some really pretty ones I wanted to save them all from their cups!!

And I got home and asked my dad if one day soon he could give me a ride to our benzie bait and tackle & pets store. They always have so many bettas in gonna be a pain to stand there and see them out the corner of my eye. If it's a no there on the gravel I guess I'll either have to ask my mom to order me some online or take me to traverse to our petsmart


----------



## Sadist

Someone on here gets some sort of cheap golden sand from somewhere that looks more natural. For the life of me, I don't remember what it's called or what store to buy/order it from. I think it was lilnaugrim or aqua aurora or Russelthedogzu.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I decided no sand. I don't want to have to deal with the gas bubble problem I keep hearing about. So someone suggested a fine gravel since I think dirt would make my tank to dark. Russell suggest caribsea gravel from petsmart or was it petco lol. Whatever. My mom might not be able to order online though so yeah. Ugh I can't forget those bettas I saw yesturday it's bothering me... Two bettas especially stood out to me and it's freaking bothering me!!!


----------



## BettaBoy11

A little late, but that baby alpaca rescue video is ADORABLE!!!


----------



## Sadist

Thanks! 

Accalia, I get fish stuck on my mind, too. I still kick myself for not bringing home the black copper crowntail girl a few months ago.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I'm out camping hopefully it helps get my mind off them


----------



## Sadist

Tried a new hair style since the normal ones weren't keeping her hair back while swimming. Of course, it's starting to storm after we finally got it done.


----------



## Sadist

Good and bad news for Brynlee. She has her cast off, and the doctors are pleased with how the scars are doing. Unfortunately, the only movements she can currently do are the same ones she could do with the cast. It will take a lot of rehab to get her sitting, standing, and walking again. The doctors say most of the problem is the spinal injury, and only a little bit is muscle atrophy from the cast.


----------



## AccaliaJay

It's going to take time.


----------



## Sadist

I had a weird dream last night. I blame lilnaugrim for her weird dream. 

In my dream, it was the last day of school, and instead of sending home all the kids' projects that were still at school, they were giving away classroom pets. There was one aquaponics tank with the plants off to the side and some sort of slow siphon that kept the dirt moist. It was really pretty. Another was a 20 long that was absolutely packed with little black skirt tetras, some loaches of some sort, and some small colorful schools of fish. Seriously overstocked. And, the big kicker was it had two baby/juvy oscars in it, maybe 4 inches long. Somehow, the water was nice and clear. Coming with that tank were also two angelfish in bags for some reason. The rest of the dream was the chaos of trying to figure out what to do with the fish to rehome most of them and eventually the whole tank because the hubby doesn't want any more tanks in the house. Of course, like real life, I was interrupted every 30 seconds with family needing something, too. I'm so glad it was a dream! I guess it also shows how pessimistic I can be about people. I guess my brain is showing me that if people can keep bettas in teacups, than they'd keep oscars in a 20 gallon tank with 6 schools of small fish.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol I'm kind of glad I didn't give into those bettas. Since I'm camping I wouldn't have been able to be home and watch for any problems. My brother is home but he's not as animal in tuned I guess you could say. He only feeds them. Yesturday we had to go get some more bottles of water to wash dishes and stuff and I had to add water to my 10 because almost two inches evaporated and I don't think he would have done it.


----------



## Sadist

Yeah, or if he did, he'd forget conditioner or something. 

Sky's still having problems, so I went ahead and dosed the whole tank with epsom salt to see if a few days of that will help. Before that, I also got a bunch more yuck off the bottom of her tank. I need to get some sand sifting snails to make that sink down to the planted roots or something.

Off to go swimming! Supposed to storm by 3, so gotta get out there now.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol my childhood friend Kaitlin is coming from downstate Sunday or Monday to camp with me till next Sunday. I'm extremely nervous. We've never been together for that long. We've never even had a sleep over as kids. But it's her birthday today and she's also graduating so I figured since she can't come up the 29th when my ohio family will be here why not have her camp this small boring camping trip. I wonder if I should give her a few things from my moms garage sale. I don't know what she likes XD curse my lack of social skills. I don't ask the right questions lol


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol my childhood friend Kaitlin is coming from downstate Sunday or Monday to camp with me till next Sunday. I'm extremely nervous. We've never been together for that long. We've never even had a sleep over as kids. But it's her birthday today and she's also graduating so I figured since she can't come up the 29th when my ohio family will be here why not have her camp this small boring camping trip. I wonder if I should give her a few things from my moms garage sale. I don't know what she likes XD curse my lack of social skills. I don't ask the right questions lol


LOL I just went upstate to the the exact same thing.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol did you have fun? It's not very fun because my brother and his demon children are making it miserable but once Kaitlin gets here I'll have someone fun to hang out with


----------



## Sadist

Just don't bring a boyfriend. They ruin everything! Have fun.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol boys avoid me. Iv only been asked out by three guys in person before and two of them turned out to be dares from boys in class. And one well is confusing. I liked him in 6th grade but then I was homeschooled and you know how people change. Well he changed for the worse. Always depressing. And then my friend Ashlyn dated him and they brought their relationship problems to me. And then he wanted to break up with Ashlyn and asked me to date him. And I told him I didn't want to be a rebound. Then later Ashlyn asked me to date him so she could go date one of her old friends. I told them I wasn't ready for a relationship and gave them a whole list of reasons why. And right when I thought all was well I invited Ashlyn to go camping with me and my family who are coming up from Ohio on the 29th and she said she would. Then four days ago both Ashlyn and he blocked me on facebook and she's not answering my texts. So I told my friend Cheyenne about it and she said she might come with me if her mom allows it.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol boys avoid me. Iv only been asked out by three guys in person before and two of them turned out to be dares from boys in class. And one well is confusing. I liked him in 6th grade but then I was homeschooled and you know how people change. Well he changed for the worse. Always depressing. And then my friend Ashlyn dated him and they brought their relationship problems to me. And then he wanted to break up with Ashlyn and asked me to date him. And I told him I didn't want to be a rebound. Then later Ashlyn asked me to date him so she could go date one of her old friends. I told them I wasn't ready for a relationship and gave them a whole list of reasons why. And right when I thought all was well I invited Ashlyn to go camping with me and my family who are coming up from Ohio on the 29th and she said she would. Then four days ago both Ashlyn and he blocked me on facebook and she's not answering my texts. So I told my friend Cheyenne about it and she said she might come with me if her mom allows it.


Boys are a crap load ton of work. And so are EVERY SINGLE one of my female friends. As a persons who does not tolerate faker very well (At all) it’s seriously suicide sometimes to hang out. I’m home schooled, too, but next year I’m going to a private school. Excited. 
Lol I bet Sadist is going to roll her eyes. If I know anything from observing my mother, kids and husbands are waaaayyy more work than boys and my girl buddies.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol did you have fun? It's not very fun because my brother and his demon children are making it miserable but once Kaitlin gets here I'll have someone fun to hang out with


Yeah it was really fun since I had know her since we were little and such, also nice to have a break from my family (Love ‘em, but spcae is good) but I kept twirlign my earbuds and smakcing myself in the face.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Lol did you have fun? It's not very fun because my brother and his demon children are making it miserable but once Kaitlin gets here I'll have someone fun to hang out with


Yeah it was really fun since I had know her since we were little and such, also nice to have a break from my family (Love ‘em, but space is good) but I kept twirling my earbuds and smacking myself in the face.
Because that’s me. 
Totally.
*Cringe*
Lol I don’t really care though, honestly. :grin2:


----------



## Sadist

Thankfully, I'm really introverted (especially in school), so I didn't have problems like that.

I was thinking of moving Sky to the 2.5 and lowering the water in it a bit more if I can manage to move the filter in such a way. That would give Tequila a bigger swimming place. Of course, this is assuming Sky's swim bladder thing doesn't get fixed. She's still having problems today.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I hope it gets fixed Sadist poor Sky!


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Poor baby. Hope she gets better fast.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Someone on here gets some sort of cheap golden sand from somewhere that looks more natural. For the life of me, I don't remember what it's called or what store to buy/order it from. I think it was lilnaugrim or aqua aurora or Russelthedogzu.


Lil got me started on it. Sunset Gold CaribSea. $14.99/20lb bag Petco.com


----------



## themamaj

Was wondering how Sky was doing. So funny talking about dreams. Getting fish would be a good one though. I dreamed other night was trapped in house with 3 skunks. Lol that was when worried about fish shipping early. I guess i knew that was one stinky situation haha


Hope camping trip and friend visit went well.


----------



## Sadist

Brynlee seems to be doing well at rehab. 

Sky still struggling. I'll leave her in the salt treatment for the full 10 days before I do anything drastic like switch tanks.


----------



## themamaj

What a sweet smile. Glad to hear she is doing well. I bet so glad cast off. 

Hope Sky feels better.


----------



## AccaliaJay

It's been raining/sprinkling for the past two hours and I went outside after dinner and saw the water. It's so pretty. If you can see the island on the left it's called snake island and were camping at a spot called white cross because of well there's a white cross here. I'll post pictures after this


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## AccaliaJay

This is why it's called white cross


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## AccaliaJay

And here it is


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## Sadist

Wow! Is that a grave?


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## themamaj

Neat pictures. Hope weather clears for you.


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## AccaliaJay

I think so. And it's starting to clear up. It might get cold tonight


----------



## Sadist

We did bounce house and Cici's Pizza for treat today since it was rainy and stayed home yesterday. Girly pretty grumpy but says she doesn't feel sick (acting sick, maybe her teeth are bothering her somehow). Sky struggled up for feeding time, then sank back down. I see her limping around her tank excitedly because I looked over. I'm glad she's still getting some exercise, but it pains me to see her this way.


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## themamaj

Pizza and bouncing how fun. Poor Sky. Sure hopes she feels better. I understand how hard it is to see them not feel well.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Pizza sounds good right now lol. And poor sky


----------



## Sadist

Family was finished before I was even halfway full. I made rice and had a granola bar when we got home  

Sky still struggling today. I'm thinking it could be a stunting problem since she's so small after having her home for (6 months?). That time shipping and in a tiny cup messed her up. I need to get the sponge filter more sidways so I can keep the water level even lower and help her out. Hubby will blow a fuse, using only 2 gallons of water in the 5 gallon tank when there's a 2 gallon one right next to it filled up. Hehe. But it's height we're looking at, not volume! I just hope the plants can help keep the nitrates down between water changes. With daughter home, have less time to spend on stuff. If I get interrupted to many times, I'll forget to finish putting water in and getting the appliances on.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Aww so it's permanent?


----------



## themamaj

The plants should help your water peremeters. If you get behind, adding a dose of prime will buy a little time on water change. I know it is hard to get things done on schedule with kiddos at home.


----------



## Sadist

I think so. The salt treatment has only been in a few days, but she hasn't improved at all. The next step would be super strong medicines, which I don't have.


----------



## AccaliaJay

That's so sad.


----------



## themamaj

What do you need? I probably have one i can mail to you.


----------



## Sadist

Hmm, not sure.



> Swim Bladder Disease (SBD)/Bloat
> •Symptoms: Betta has trouble swimming, maybe he can’t stay upright and can only swim on his side.
> •Treatment: This is not a contagious or fatal illness. If it isn’t congenital (aka a condition that he/she has had since birth), then it is caused by over feeding or feeding the wrong foods. Bettas will typically recover after a day or two of Epsom Salt treatments (1-2tsp/gal) and fasting. You can help prevent a reoccurrence by switching to a better pellet food, feeding less and offering a more varied diet. To make it easier for the betta to eat and breath, you can make the water shallower. You can offer him/her frozen daphnia (sold at Petsmart) as daphnia will help him/her pass stool. DO NOT FEED THEM PEAS.


That's what the forum says to do. She's been pooping normally, breathing good. Nitrates are reading at 10. Smooth scales. I think I'll skip the medicine as long as she still has a good appetite and isn't completely lethargic. I haven't actually fasted her but fed her greatly reduced amounts (so she still has strength if it's something bacterial). Her belly is still ginormous, but she's pooping. I hope this isn't egg bound. I know it's rare, but it would certainly scare me off females if she passes. Thanks for the offer; that's very kind!


----------



## themamaj

Keep us posted. Happy to help if I have something that could be of use but sounds like you are doing all the right things


----------



## Sadist

Thanks! I thought I'd read about bacterial infections causing swim bladder problems, but I couldn't find it. Maybe it was a dream.


----------



## Sadist

I put an extra IAL in there in the tangle of floating stuff. I'm hoping she can make a perch on it. She perches on one of the anubias leaves near the surface, but most of the time she seems to rest behind her sunken IAL in the sand. I have pictures, but who knows when I'll have time to process and load them??

https://www.facebook.com/628685088/videos/10157119257825089/ video of Brynlee's physical therapy. I think they put it to public, so people without an account should be able to see it.


----------



## themamaj

Look at her go! Keep up the good work Brynlee!!! That is awesome  

IAL may make her feel safe and secure. Kindof like us when we don't feel good want to snuggle under blanket. I sure hate seeing fish sick and struggle. Titus has been laying on his leaf almost with half body out of water. He sits motionless for so long and then will take a bubble of air. Sigh. I hate this.


----------



## BettaSplendid

themamaj said:


> Look at her go! Keep up the good work Brynlee!!! That is awesome
> 
> IAL may make her feel safe and secure. Kindof like us when we don't feel good want to snuggle under blanket. I sure hate seeing fish sick and struggle. Titus has been laying on his leaf almost with half body out of water. He sits motionless for so long and then will take a bubble of air. Sigh. I hate this.


:frown2:

Zadok too. He is at bottom barely breathing... Just slowly dying I think. Miserable. I do hope Sky recovers. Maybe it is eggs?! Warmth helps, right? How warm is her water?


----------



## Sadist

Her water is up to 84 right now. She found her new IAL and was there during feeding time. Perked right up and ate! Now, she's over at the normal feeding corner, begging. There's a bacopa that she sort of can rest on. It looks like eggs, but I'm not very experienced with that since Mrs. Fish absorbs hers and just stays fat. Sky is all striped up for breeding with a huge belly. Maybe the ovaries are pressing on the swim bladder if she's stunted? I've noticed that crowntail girls seem to carry their ovaries differently.


----------



## themamaj

I think your right on crown girls. Seem to be much more prominent than other girls i have


----------



## BettaSplendid

Can't do any better for her than what you're already doing! If she has breeding stripes too...well, I would think it must be eggs. If she were sick you would think she would be showing stress stripes instead.


----------



## Sadist

Thanks, it helps. I've never heard of eggs making swim bladder issues, but it's definitely not food.

We did a splash/swim park today. Daughter completely wore herself out practicing her underwater swim, 1-3 feet at a time. She just passed the face-in-the-water benchmark, and you know how quickly everything progresses when kiddos pass benchmarks. She "rested her eyes" the whole way home, and now we're getting some rest and snacks before swim lessons (at an indoor pool). 

We did The Pottery Place this morning and made a flower-bowl for Daddy. I did a tiny flower turned into a magnet thing for my dad. She finishes much quicker than I do, so I can only do one tiny thing with a few details before she's ready to go. We pick them up Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning.


----------



## themamaj

What a fun day!


----------



## GemBetta96

Tequila Sunrise looks kinda like my betta Opal

I just realized how old this thread is! Oops!


----------



## AccaliaJay

So while trying to read and write this I'm being attacked by my almost 2 year old sister. I'm glad brynlees doing better. Sky should be okay now right? 

And my friend Kaitlin went home a day early thanks to my mom.


----------



## Sadist

It's been 7 days with the ES treatment. She's still excited to eat her limited ration. I thought one of the guppies was going downhill last night, but he's acting normal today. He was hanging out by himself in the filter flow, but now he's interacting with everyone.

I'm surprised how well Brynlee is doing after only 8 days of rehab/PT. It seems like she'll have a good chance to walk again. Then, they have to think about surgery on the other side to make everything match. If she walks again, they pretty much have to get the other hip and knee fixed, too. They did the first one so she'd be able to walk better and have better quality of life.

The rest of the fish are doing same ol' same ol'. I have an outbreak of pond snails in Mrs. Fish's tank and the 10 gallon that need to be taken care before they mess up the water quality. I hope they like iceburg lettuce; it's the only type I bought this week.


----------



## themamaj

Ugg pond snails. Bring on the lettuce. Glad everyone doing well. How many guppies do you have now? When was in Aquarium store other day they had gotten in some black Moscow guppies. Sooo pretty.


----------



## Sadist

I just have the 2 males. Cornelius, the only survivor of my breeding attempt, and a pet store boy to keep Cornelius from glass surfing to death. They are a bonded pair, but they also keep hoping the other will change gender.

Did a bigger water change for Sky than normal, trying to get all the poop and decaying plants off the bottom. I moved a floating anubias to the bare corner where the old IAL was decaying. I'm thinking of putting some shrimp in there since they seem to like decaying plant matter. If she'll let any food touch the bottom for them  She's a good eater/hunter. I'm going to do another big change on Monday to remove the rest of the salt. I won't have time over the weekend. Sky seems to enjoy the cleaner bottom. She has to rest a lot, but she's zipping around. Her swimming seems slightly improved this morning. I'm not sure if it means she's getting better, or if she's learned how to overcome the disability.

It's red raspberry week, right during a heat wave. I'm lamenting the fact of no swimming for me, though at least the daughter can keep cool in the water. She just started wearing goggles so she can open her eyes in the water (to go along with her putting her face in the water milestone). She's really progressing. With her head down, instead of cricking her neck way up and barely paddling along, she can really zip through the water. She's faster than me, though she needs to work on endurance. She goes maybe 1-3 feet, then comes up for air. She was really gasping for air during Wednesday's swim lesson. A bunch of people didn't show up, so she got a teacher all to herself.


----------



## themamaj

That is awesome with lessons. I need to get grandson in some.


----------



## AccaliaJay

That's good. I checked on my tanks today. I think I have more guppy fry. That or it was because the water was low but there's to many to count in the ten gallon. I was gonna ask this I saw some sharks at meijer. I didn't get a good look at them or their full name but I'm interested in knowing about them. Anyone know what kind they could have been? I don't know when well be going again and I don't know if they switch out different fish for each season. My first thought seeing it was I wonder how big they get. If I had to guess their size I would say 2-4 inches


----------



## Sadist

Finally had time to process pictures. Sky last week. Blurry because it was dark and hard to focus the camera, then had to use flash.


----------



## GemBetta96

He's pretty


----------



## themamaj

She is so beautiful! Love little spikey tails


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Love the radiance.


----------



## Sadist

You can see how she's swimming funny there. She's still swimming funny, but she seems to have more energy while she's doing it. She was so excited for her garlic community formula today.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Your fish seem to have such big personalities.


----------



## Sadist

They do! My females seem to be the most vicious, too.


----------



## themamaj

Girls with attitude


----------



## AccaliaJay

Well I seem to make my brother angry a lot. He asked me to move in with him $45 a week to watch his kids while he's at work. I told him no. I can barely deal with his kids two days a week what makes him think I can handle them 7 days a week. Besides I have a dog and fish tanks to take care of. I know for sure Xander and their dogs will fight. His dogs are to annoying and my dog is a grumpy old man. Apparently he'll only be making $10 an hour. So he was like "well then Becky's gonna have to quit hers" and I'm just sitting here thinking "uh not my problem iv been telling you for years to find a reliable babysitter but yet you waste your money on computers, games and all the other worthless crap you buy" like today their veichle broke down. They could have been saving their money for a new better reliable vehicle. Or save their money so my brother can make the trip to ohio to get the truck my grandparents are giving them.


----------



## AccaliaJay

And females seem to have attitudes no matter the species. One of my female guppys started fighting any other guppy that came near a mesh black floating tube I put in there. It was pretty funny watching all the males swim away.


----------



## Sadist

Hehe, I remember my pregnant female guppies being super irritable. I was pretty irritable until I found out my symptoms were pregnancy. Then, I was all flowers and smiles.

Sky still doing as well as she can. She seems to have really adjusted to her condition. She can even manage to nestle herself in the bacopa. She also has gotten back to almost jumping onto the floating plants at feeding time.


----------



## themamaj

That's great on Sky. Flowers and smiles  Do you think you will have any more?


----------



## GemBetta96

Sky sounds really cute


----------



## Sadist

themamaj said:


> That's great on Sky. Flowers and smiles  Do you think you will have any more?


No more. It took us 7 years the first time. All the medical problems and medicines I have to take the rest of my life would mean no breastfeeding and even birth defects (though they say the meds are okay for pregnancy, I wouldn't want to risk it). My age puts me at risk for problems, too. No more babies! We get to spoil the one we have, though. 



GemBetta96 said:


> Sky sounds really cute


Thanks! She's a hoot. I'm going to shove her filter more sideways and lower the water level a tad more, help her out.


----------



## themamaj

Makes your daughter extra special!


----------



## Sadist

She is extra special for sure!


----------



## BettaSplendid

Very special. I love the hairstyles.


----------



## themamaj

Aww how cute!!! You are great at hairstyles. She always looks so cute.


----------



## Sadist

Thanks! Usually, she wants to have her hair wild and free, hence the short hair. She also hates tangles. Her little kid hair won't stay in french braids or pony tails for swimming, so we tried the million braids thing once. It works, but it takes too long to put in for someone who has to undo them and wash hair every day. I learned how to french braid when her hair was long. I look at the pictures of long, gorgeous hair with nostalgia, but the tangles are too much of a pain when it's left loose!


----------



## themamaj

Oh I remember those days. Daughter would wake up in am with knots in hair from sleeping. Used all kinds of detangler and have to try to brush it all out gently with a not so patient little girl. Aww miss those days though.


----------



## Sadist

Yes. Or brushing 5 times a day to keep it from getting knotted. She went from hair to her waist to pixie cut. I thought it was cute, but too many people thought she was a boy in pink shoes. Now, she just likes it in a chin bob, which was messed up in her last cutting. She was too impatient by the time she got to the back, so it's longer than the front. The hair was also neatly parted, so when she went to her normal part, now there's a piece that's 2 inches longer than the rest.


----------



## BettaSplendid

Why do they do that, stylists? They should always ask where you normally part and if there are cowlicks. 

My secret hair weapon is the Tangle Teezer hairbrush, sold at Sally's. It really gets tangles out fast and gently AND feels good. Beware, the knock offs are not as good.


----------



## sabrinah

I feel odd for just jumping in but tangled hair is something I'm very familiar with! I have a lot of very fine hair that's down to my butt. It tangles like nobody's business. Satin pillowcases work miracles to minimize the tangles at night and they can be found extremely cheap. I use a hair brush that has wooden pegs and it gets the tangles out smoother and easier than plastic bristles with way less hair loss. It also makes hair super shiny!


----------



## Sadist

We have some sort of tangle miracle brush that we bought at the salon. We've tried wooden bristles, but it didn't work for her. The bendy plastic ones seem to work the best. We can only use one brand of detangler, the only one I found with no fragrance. Thanks for all the advice! I think at this point that she just likes her hair short. She's like me, she'll say she's going to grow it out, and then when it gets to a certain length, "Cut it off!"


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## AccaliaJay

I can't call it a nightmare but it definitely wasn't a good dream. I went to the benzie pet store and it was freaking awful the man working knew nothing about the fish and there was a tank called the blood tank. One of the several bettas were dead, really no organization of which fish were in what tank. And then the only tanks they had were cups. Then he asked me If id take a three foot long cat fish thing. Awful... I woke up and was just thinking "I need to fix my urges to buy fish" cause in my dream I got three weird fish, two bettas (one was white with red) and I was considering more guppies. And their gravel was actually colored glass. I can't even get a ride there yet and I'm dreaming a nightmare about the place XD and I'm only originally going for a gravel and probably fish food so I don't have to keep using goldfish flakes for my guppies and liberty. I wish liberty would eat pellets. I can't find national geographic betta flakes. They probably only have em at petsmart. I'm up to $25 though so more money for the gravel if I find any


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## AccaliaJay

And the nightmare of hair. I have what my family call black people Afro hair. It's aweful. I used to have my cousin to take care of it and try helping She found me a no foam shampoo and conditioner that I love. And she used to chemically straighten my hair but she hasn't come to visit for a while. So now I have a constant knotting battle in my hair. Iv pretty much given up though. I just keep it up 24/7 even when sleeping.

My brothers often call me Claudio Sanchez


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## Sadist

I've read that coconut butter can help with tangles without making everything greasy. Pure coconut butter is quite expensive, though. It's also just a chunk of hard fat, but supposedly, it'll melt a bit on your skin and become usable. It's supposed to be good for eczema, too, but I found a lotion that works before I tried coconut butter. If you can convince your parents to get some for you (it can also be used in cooking if it doesn't work for your hair, so win!), you could try it out. 

Weird dream. I hate when I have ones like that -- there's enough of real life in there that I don't realize it's a dream and can't fix things.

I had stuff to say about my fish, but the daughter wants me with her more.


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## AccaliaJay

XD it was awful. The only good thing was I wish I had that white and red betta. If I had to compare it to one this is the closest I can find. A lot less red but still awesome


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## themamaj

That is a beautiful betta!


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## AccaliaJay

I know I wish one day I will have one like it. Red is one of my favorite colors.


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## Sadist

Wow, that is a stunning betta!

I ordered some iodine online. Tigress Jr keeps making those weird back-bend stretch maneuvers. She did recently molt and seems full sized, so it seems like a strange thing to do. The instructions online say to add x amount every other day for a marine tank, so I'll start with half of that once a week. Probably amounts to two drops or something for my little 10 gallon, ha!


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## Sadist

Sky's extra bulge has gone away, but she still has the swimming issues. She still has that large belly thing going on that all the crowntail ladies seem to have. I think their ovaries are just crooked or something.

There was some sort of larger shrimp in with the mysis shrimp today. Mrs. Fish and Tigress jr are both happy ladies. Mrs. Fish is especially porky. She's also pooping to make room for that chunk of larger shrimp :-D

A bunch of my java fern windeystuff is getting brown leaves. I'm going to have to figure out what's wrong. Some of them might just have too much buried in the gravel, so I'll try that first.


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## themamaj

I was just going to ask you how Tigress doing. I miss having crays. So fun to watch. 

Pretty funny Mrs Fish has to poop to clear out room for more dinner. Hehe a girl who loves a great meal 

Let me know if figure out anything on java fern. Funny the plants that ate supposed to be fool proof, I seem to not do well with. Have some fern hanging on but also some browning. Mine is buried in substrate so wonder if that one better to tie off to something. 

How's Cornelius and Tequila doing?


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## Sadist

They're doing well. I thought Tequila was an old guy when I got him, but he's remarkably healthy and able. Cornelius and his life partner are doing great, too. They dart around Blackiechat, picking off the crumbs. Blackiechat still seems good, too, even at the lower temperature (76 for the gups and remaining crayfish).

I'm not totally sure, but I think java fern has some sort of rhizome that needs to be exposed like anubias. Mine were so trimmed at the store that I couldn't tell what to bury. I guess I should have paid more attention. Some are still quite healthy.


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## BettaSplendid

I just killed a java fern when I was doing a wc, the gravel vac had deposited too much gravel onto the rhizome and it died fairly quickly before I realized what I had done. Whoops. My java fern left floating are actually happier than the ones rooted in place.


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## Sadist

One of my floating ones is half brown. I'm not sure what's going on, maybe I should do fertilizer more often. I haven't been able to do as many water changes as I should, so I cut down on fertlizer (since the one I have is half nitrates, and the fish are making enough of that!).


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## Sadist

I had a weird dream about rescuing a wild snake, then the wild chase of trying to get a proper cage for it. I finally got a cage, but it wasn't really something you'd keep a snake in (pine shavings on the bottom, driftwood with anubias-looking plants tied to it). Finally, I defrosted a mouse to feed it. It was about to bite me, but then it saw the mouse and loved me (ha!). I'd also put some crickets in the cage in case it was too small for mice. What a strange dream!


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## AccaliaJay

Eww I hate snakes


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## themamaj

Lol sounds like one of my crazy dreams


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## Sadist

My iodine was missing from the package, and there was a big hole. They're sending a new one for free. I guess it's a good thing that big shrimp was in the mysis shrimp and Jr managed to grab it before anyone else ate it. 

I just saw a new warning label on one of my medicines -- can cause magnesium and vitamin B12 deficiencies. No wonder I'm sick! I'm already taking magnesium and iron supplements, but now I need to find some good B12.


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## themamaj

Walmart carries a B50 complex vitamin that is good. Funny enough been taking a prenatal one because alot of vitamins I need. Have not been consistently taking it but have recently. Noticed energy level feeling more normal. Haven't thought to ck if reg med have side effects like that. Good to know.


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## Sadist

I noticed my multivitamin has 833% of B12, so I have to assume it's at a good level. Not sure what's going on with bad energy levels. I stopped the ulcer medicines; a new colon medicine is coming soon that doesn't cause stomach ulcers, so hopefully I can get off the ulcer meds for good. Just one day off the ulcer medicine, and I'm having all sorts of problems. Probably half of them are from cutting back on coffee and the other from vitamin problems. I know coffee doesn't help with the tummy problems, but it's the only thing keeping me going even with all the extra vitamins! It never bothered me until I had the colon medicines added on. I hope the new ones work without bad side effects.


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## themamaj

Hope so too. Coffee is necessity for me so know how hard it is to cut back.


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## Sadist

I had another weird dream last night about fish. In the dream, I had the 10 gallon drained down to sand (it has gravel irl), and I had to make a spray bottle of 1/2 water and 1/2 prime to spray on the fish so they wouldn't dry out in transit (and so the sand would stay moist). So strange! And of course, today's been super energy drain day. I took a vitamin D with snack to see if I wasn't getting enough. I stopped taking it when we started swimming a lot, but I haven't been swimming all week. I hope it helps. Whole family is is ganging up on me because I'm tired, and I can't help it.


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## themamaj

Sorry energy low. I hate feeling like that. Some of my night-time meds leave me really dragging. Wonder if some iron rich foods would help.


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## Sadist

Coffee is known to inhibit iron absorption, and so is calcium. I try to wait 2 hours after taking my vitamin before I drink coffee or have dairy.

Cornelius's buddy is dying. I noticed he was less active for the past few days, but I haven't had time to do a water change or anything to help out. Now, he has dropsy. His whole body has raised scales :-( I feel bad for him and Cornelius both. Not sure if I should try to get another buddy or let Cornelius pass on. Store guppy has a giant bite out of his tail, wonder if he just stressed to death with Blackiechat in there with him. I haven't seen any attacking behavior from anyone, but Blackiechat seems the likely culprit.

We had a great Father's Day hike today and have a movie on to keep daughter busy while we cook and eat and try to work in a shower. I took the time to separate Store Boy from the 10 gallon tank. He's gasping in the bottom of a betta cup with some salvinia, floating in warm water.


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## AccaliaJay

Aww poor boy


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## themamaj

Hike sounds fun. I hate that on guppy. Poor Cornelius.


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## Sadist

I dosed the tank with prime; the nitrates are really high (40!). I think I need to do big water changes a few days in a row to get it down. The salvinia is out of control! I wish it could help with the nitrates a bit more.


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## Sadist

Cornelius's buddy (Store Boy) had passed by feeding time this morning. Going to try to get water change #1 done while daughter busy on ipad. I hope I can finish it without too many interruptions!


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## Sadist

edit: managed to finish the water change. There wasn't as much yucky stuff in the gravel as I expected. I did stir up some gammarus shrimp, so I guess they've been doing a good job of cleaning. I'm guessing the nitrate problems are because I never put the lettuce in there for the pond snails. I don't mind 3-4 pond snails in there to clean up the IAL or whatever, but there are too many babies! Going to go get lettuce for that tank and Mrs. Fish's tank (before she has problems).

Cornelius alternating glass surfing with normal behavior. I hope I can get the water parameters down to normal. I'd like to get him a new friend before he glass surfs to death.


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## themamaj

I thought of that too. Cornelius has been such a trooper amd survivor. I think he would enjoy a new friend. I have seen some very pretty ones lately in stores.


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## Sadist

See the largest pond snail I have in Mrs. Fish's tank. It seems to be ignoring the lettuce so far. Hopefully, they'll all find it tonight after lights out and can be disposed of in the morning.


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## BettaSplendid

So sorry about the guppy. They tend to get in the betta's space and then flip their tails around within range. Bad idea.


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## ThatFishThough

Ehhhh. My guppy does that, @BettaSplendid. He now has some type of sceptimania/finrot/tail biting, and i'm scared Angel will get it. I don't know how to help him either -- he's the last remaining guppy of my original trio. If I were to treat him, I only have tanks 1G or less, too. .-. I feel bad -- he went from 20G to 5.5G to 1G.


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## Sadist

Got a bunch of snails out with the lettuce, but I still see a bunch more! I guess that's what happens when you only have iceburg lettuce in the house.


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## AccaliaJay

My dreams are getting a bit rediculous with the pet stores XD and sadist are you thinking of a male or maybe some females?


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## Sadist

I was really thinking of a trio of females. If they don't all die during childbirth (and yes, that has happened to me with guppies!), I'm not sure I could do more with the babies besides feed them to the bettas. If they survived. I really want to try it again (probably since I can't have my own babies any more), but I hope I'm responsible and just pick up one or two healthy boys. They can all flare and examine each others' breeding areas all day long.

We didn't get to the pet store this morning, and daughter's ready to go swimming. I might end up going next week while she's in cooking camp, see what's in stock. Need some more plants while I'm there. Well, maybe want some more plants. No really, I have two tanks with open areas, can see the filter area! I need them! >.<


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## AccaliaJay

Why not get another male and them some females? It's okay to get just males I'm just curious.


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## Sadist

The tank isn't really big enough to have multiple males and then females on top of it. I guess that really shows me I shouldn't get females!


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## AccaliaJay

Ah lol yeah I didn't think any of my fry would survive but now I'm overloaded so guppies tend to do what you don't want them to. If I get a new gravel I think I'll reconsider my tank plan. 10 gallon for all the guppies and ghost shrimp. Liberty gets a 5 to himself and maybe one or two snails and the other two will be in the ten. And I might use my extra 5 gallon for either a test planting tank with dirt or sand although it wouldn't get a filter.. Or just use it to hold all the fake decorations I have. Do planted tanks need a filter? If I make it into a test tank I could put 1 or two of my snails in there. And maybe later on a betta or maybe after I get a filter for my ten make a cherry breeding tank. (I love cherries but they didn't survive my other tanks)


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## themamaj

Petco's $/ gallon sale coming up in week or so. Great time to upgrade and have males and females


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## AccaliaJay

Does that gallon thing only go on site or store?


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## Sadist

I've seen it in the store itself.

Hubby said no more tanks!

The reason I didn't want to get more than 1 male if I get females is the ratio of males and females. I'd like to beyond the 1:2 and have 3 females to every male. Assuming most of the fry don't make it, 1 daddy and 3 mommies (with mommies replaced since being a female is so hard) would be a lot better than 3 daddies and 9 mommies or 2 daddies and 6 mommies. I only have 1 tank that's 10 gallon, and it's closed to stocking levels until the otos go.

My java moss is doing really well in the window tank. I could move a bunch over if I got females. It tends to disappear in the 10 gallon. I think the snails and gammarus shrimp eat it. Hopefully, they'll continue to work on the never ending salvinia.

Also, if anyone knows what this is, I'd appreciate if people could help out! http://www.bettafish.com/30-betta-fish-care/699554-fins-sticking-out-one-side.html I got mentioned on it, but I'm really bad with diagnosing things. I guess I'm scared I'll diagnose it wrong, and then they'll kill the fish with the wrong medicine.


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## Sadist

Daughter now wants a cat or bunny "when the fish all die." Ugg. I'd had hopes of surprising her with a pink fish in her own room when she was old enough. Oh well, plans always fall to the roadside when other living creatures are involved. I totally messed up my dad's wedding plans for me when we eloped at the courthouse. He was going to have a blue velvet bag sewn around my baby teeth for the "something new, something old, something borrowed, something blue" line.


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## AccaliaJay

Sadist I would stick with your pink fish idea for your daughter. You seem to already have slight problems keep up on tank cleanings. Iv never had a rabbit but I know they are extremely messy from my experience of holding some XD and cats don't always turn out the way you need them to. And if your not careful it can cause a lot of problems with your fish. My cat pretends to just drink my fish tank water before sticking her paws in and rearranging my 10. She's not even supposed to be inside either XD besides if you get her a fish maybe you can get her help during water changes. Dump water or something XD

And I don't see your fish all dieing so she might wait a long time lol


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## Sadist

We fostered a cat when she was 2. No more cats for us. It demanded too much attention. With the fish, you can give as much attention as you have time, then go about your business in peace. I hope that doesn't make me a bad person, but I really like that  I'd already told her no cats and bunnies. Bunnies need a lot of outside the cage time and attention, like rats. When she's old enough to have her own pet, she'll do the daily scooping litter stuff or weekly water changes or whatever we get. I think kids like something they can hold and cuddle. I'd like to get some sort of cuddly lizard or small snake, but hubby isn't keen on reptiles other than turtles. I think he believes a turtle can be kept in some tiny tank like a betta, but I'm pretty sure they require something bigger, more elaborate, and extremely expensive.


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## themamaj

I looked at that betta. I would lean more towards a tumor but I dont have much experience on that. 

I'm rooting for pink fish or cuddly lizard  Axolotl would be like a combination.


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## Sadist

I'd love one, but we keep our house at 80+ in the summer. There's no way we could get the water cool enough without the $500 cooling system, and hubby would blow a fuse if I bought something that expensive for a pet. He was okay with school uniforms that expensive, but not one item for a pet.

New guppy is acclimating. Blackiechat is stressing it out. Daughter named new fish Serenium.


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## themamaj

Cant wait to see pictures! What is smallest size tank you could have 2-3 guppies in?


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## Sadist

I wrote the wrong name; it's Selenius. 

I think 10 gallons is the smallest for guppies, though I've read about people putting them into 5's. They're small, but they poop a lot. A 5 would maybe need 2/week water changes to keep up with the poop or something. Endlers might be okay in a 5. We saw some at the local pet store, and they're really small. Like an aggressive Mrs. Fish would try to eat it small.

I have a picture, but it might be next week when I get to process it. It's probably blurry, too


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## themamaj

Guppies are the hardest fish to photograph because such fast swimmers! What colors is the new one? What does Cornelius think? 

I keep eyeing the Moscow guppies at aquarium store. They have black ones and white ones now. So pretty. I could have a Russian themed tank. Like I need another tank....stop...resist


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## Sadist

He's got a yellowish head with the diamond between the eyes like dragonscale bettas, fades to black on the tail scale area, with reddish fins. Quite pretty. Maybe it's called sunset guppies? He also has a little crescent/S red marking on one side behind his pectoral fin. It doesn't look like an injury, but their scales are so tiny it's hard for me to tell. So far, he's enjoying the tank, pecking at the different plants and gravel. Cornelius is all over him like "We're best friends now! Are you a girl? Look at my fins! You're so pretty! I'm so pretty! Are you a girl?"


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## themamaj

Haha poor Cornelius needs a girlfriend! Sounds really beautiful.


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## AccaliaJay

Omg I would love to see it. Iv had 1 betta and 4 guppies in a five gallon before. I think that was the max Liberty would put up with. If it was up to me is give up on guppies and try something harder. But my guppies don't wanna go anywhere. I'm still seriously wondering if a betta would manage to jump out of my ten. If they would my Max betta count is 2. But I would also need to have smaller friends like frogs, shrimp and snails. I really really really want some otos I really want to try some egg layer type of fish but to many freaking guppies XD


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## Sadist

Cornelius has grown up! He's the bigger one with silver and red head fading to black stripes and red fins. He's vertical in the picture, Selenius is horizontal. Poor new boy didn't know bloodworms are food. He also shied from Blackiechat at feeding time. Hopefully, he'll get the hang of it soon.


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## themamaj

Wow he is really grown! Love new boys colors! Soo pretty.


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## Sadist

They had a whole tank of boys that same color. Girl picked out one from the bunch, and I indicated to the sales clerk one of the active, healthy-looking ones. Selenius ate at breakfast time today. I tried to get a little bit of food away from Blackiechat, and he excitedly ate all the little crumbs floating around.


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## themamaj

Blackichat is a crowntail right? Is he aggressive toward guppies at all or like interaction?


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## BettaSplendid

Blackiechat is a King, plakat? New guppie is gorgeous, so is Cornelius. Hope the new one is disease free. If I get any new guppies they'll be quarantined a month, the little plagues. LOL 

Daughter also wants a bunny. I say absolutely not. They eat so much and POOP so much. Uuuuugh. Can't do cats either. I like cats and bunnies but just can't handle them myself. Daughter also wants a hamster. That is another one I am wanting to avoid. Stinky, nocturnal... Hahaha. I sound like I hate animals. I guess I have just had bad experiences with some animals. I had a hamster when I was younger. He had 4 sets of those colored tubes that twisted on and on and on. But he pee'd in them. And he never wanted to be held. Little rascal. He was cute though. That is why they get homes. Maybe females are less smelly. I had to take the cage and tubes outside and use the hose on it. Got old. Especially for a 10 year old.


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## Sadist

He's a plakat king. I figured he'd be able to handle the higher water flow I have for the otos. He was really placid when I first put him in there. Several weeks later, I saw him flare once at the guppies. They mostly seem to leave each other alone. Cornelius and Store Boy used to eat right next to him, zipping around grabbing crumbs (the frozen community formula is really messy). Of course, they were there before Blackiechat was added. He was very interested with Selenius in the bag but seems to be mostly leaving them alone. He seems to still hunt gammarus shrimp and interested in Tigress Jr, but she seems able to handle herself.

I think another oto may have died. It's so hard to find them, and they pretty much hide all the time since the shoal fell apart (less than 6 left). I can't tell if there are 2, 3, or 4 left. Every once in a while, I find a leathery tube that I can't tell if it's oto skin with all the meat and bones and fins gone or some plant thing (hallowed out stem?). There are definetly fewer than the 7 I had a year ago. I'm not sure if I can manage to catch all the ones left without destroying the tank to rehome them to someone who has some and wants more. I've thought about rehoming them, but so far I'm just letting them finish their life cycle.

I've actually thought of rehoming Blaciechat. I haven't really bonded with him. I thought he'd make a great guppy fry numbers control if I started breeding again. First, I've got to get out of my health funk so I can keep the tanks clean again. I'm usually very strict about always cleaning them all on Monday with a Thursday turkey baster/water topper.

Which reminds me, the new medicine came in. The doctor said it would be a completely different type of medicine, like cortizone for the digestion tract. What came in is just a different name brand of what I was taking before. I have the follow up appointment in a few weeks to chew him out about that!


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## themamaj

Sure hope stomach issues settle and you feel better!

I have done hamsters, and guinea pigs. Middle son had hamster a long time. It got some type of ulcer on side that would not heal. Took to vet and he suggested we needed to put it down which we did. Just remember son standing outside vet wailing "you killed him..you killed Fluffy!" Got mother of year award for that one. We had a friend give us another hamster but I rehomed it pretty quick to another family. Our guinea pig lived 6 years. Normal 3-5. Haven't done bunnies but pretty much got my fill for woodchip housed animals. 

Fish and axolotls are so much more enjoyable to me but I still ponder geckos and maybe a guppy tank.


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## BettaSplendid

Doctor! Seriously?! The same medicine, different name. *clicks tongue* So sorry to hear that. 

I bet those gammarrus shrimp give Blackiechat an outlet for his betta-instincts. They sure love to hunt. I impressed with how long your colony has lasted.


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## AccaliaJay

Iv had three guinea pigs in my life. One was when I was younger I believe his name was Nikki or something like that. He died and we put him in a shoe box but it was winter so we couldn't bury him so he stayed in the freezer on the porch till we buried him with our dog Laydee. Then I got two a few years ago. Though I regretted it. Their so messy. My sister in law got outside rabbits. Two escaped and my favorite one froze to death only a few days after getting them I kinda want a inside one but is rather try a gerbil first. But my mom won't let me have anymore animals. She doesn't mind fish since I take care of them. If I had a big enough tank I would totally want a axolotl. Their so cool I don't know if it would do okay in our house though I have heaters cause our house temp is always changing.


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## Sadist

Hamsters are messy, and the cages are too small for them (like betta bowls), and a lot of them are aggressive. Hubby had one and just remembers the wheel squeaking all night. I had a guinea pig growing up, lived 6 years. They're so messy and smelly. New info is out to scoop out the litter every day, but back when I was a kid it was just replace the litter once a week. I had to take the whole cage out and hose it off and sometimes bleach it. I had a smaller cage that the pet stayed in (put him in the shade to graze on living grass, he loved it. I'm lucky fire ants never found him, though). I got up at 5 on weekdays to jog and shower before school, so weekends WEEEEEE! WEEEEEE! at 5 am. Everyone in the house could hear no matter which room the cage was in. They seem rather skiddish at the store, which would lead to improper handling (hard to pick up correctly while they're freaking and running around) and all around not an enjoyable pet. No cats, either. We fostered one for a few months one time, and there's just no great place to put the litter box. I imagine a rabbit would be somewhat between the cat and the guinea pig in cleaning and managing.

This morning, I thought Selenius was dying at the gravel. Apparently, that's how they rest, and he woke up later than the rest of the tank. He missed breakfast time, but there are some crumbs around he can find before Tigress stomps through on her rounds. Everyone else is doing the same. Daughter decided to rename Sky into Skyla and Tequila Sunrise to Treesun. I've been calling him T.S. to myself anyways. Sky rests a lot, but she's sure active when she gets going. She leaped an inch out of the water at breakfast time, trying to catch the toothpick.


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## AccaliaJay

I think my sister once had a hamster or gerbil while I was growing up. I remember the colorful cage. Gerbils are supposed to be a lot cleaner than a hamster. And less biting. One of my guinea pigs used to bite my shirt, hands and even peed on me mutiple times. And I had a male and female in cages beside each other. Talk about noisy!!! I think the female was Jazz the male I can't remember. And the cleaning sucked. The female peed through everything even if I cleaned the cage every three days. I even layed a inch of newspaper below a puppy pad and piled on the wood shavings on top of that. And it still soaked the tray three days later. The female also kept flipping her igloo house I eventually used big rocks to stop her. The male was noisy and kept flipping shavings out. He was the biter. And I tried to hold them each once a day for about 5 or 10 minutes. I think the best thing out of the guinea pig experience was feeding them veggies and Cheerios. Other than that it sucked


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## Sadist

I really loved mine. He liked to be held. Before we sold our piano, I'd have him in my lap and play piano, and he'd purr. When we adopted the cat, she hated every bit of attention he got to the point that she'd paw his veggies out to the carpet and chew them up and spit them everywhere. I just didn't like cleaning the cage. I had a boy, and he'd poop in the same spot until it made a hill between the bottom of the cage and where he laid (we had one of those bad cages, wire all around with a removable tray under the wire; he was probably cold and hurt his toes). It was a pain getting that poop pad sprayed off.


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## AccaliaJay

I don't like those cages they should have those for bird cages.


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## themamaj

How's new guppy today?


----------



## Sadist

He's hiding under the salvinia. :-( I recall it took a few tries before I got a survivor last time, too.


----------



## Sadist

Got Mrs. Fish's tank cleaned (finally!) and filter maintenance. It was really bad. I couldn't get every spot of the sand vacuumed; once Mrs. Fish noticed what was going on, she was trying to attack the debris as it vacuumed (and some snails floating up with it). It was in the back corner of her tank where the plants get in the way of vacuuming, so I couldn't move it without endangering Mrs. Fish. The snails have kept the feeding corner very clean of everything, though. Pure sand there (and some empty shells; I guess Mrs. Fish is taking care of some of the snails). There's an anubias of some sort in that back corner that is just beautiful. It can only really be seen from a side view of the tank; if it wasn't so tangled with everything, I'd move it over to the front corner where the filter used to be. During maintenance, I went ahead and put it back in a more convenient area for removal. The filter flow is much more powerful now that I cleaned the inner workings really well. I ordered some straw/bottle cleaner brushes a while back to try out on it, and it worked really well! Bonus in that I can save some of the pack for daughter's daily water bottle straw cleaning. The water sprite in her tank is now pushing their leaves above water and making a bigger root system. One frond is growing into the lamp; not sure what to do about that!

Sky is doing the same. After her cleaning, I added a fresh IAL near the surface. It isn't an area she frequents since the removal of the house plant; it's too open there. I made sure one of her anubias plants are floating with leaves by the surface on that side, too. She's gotten the hang of the bacopa/water wisteria tangle in the feeding corner.

Everyone else is doing the same. Selenius (new guppy) still seems to be hiding a lot. I think he's afraid of Blackiechat. He may have eaten a plant that doesn't agree with him, too. He's swimming around right now but only because Blackiechat came to hang out next to him. Cornelius has found him and is trying to engage in play.

I hope everyone had a great weekend!


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## themamaj

Cornelius is still hoping for a girl to pop out of hiding haha. Hopefully he is just adjusting to tank and tank mates and will get more active as feels comfortable.

Sounds like did good job on tank. Amazes me how quickly filters can clog with plant debris. A bottle brush is good to get down in hard to reach places. I need to figure out something about width of two qtips but long to get down in spray bar. I know the make long qtips for medical swabs. Wonder if can buy anywhere?


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## Sadist

I bought this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0077M41Z4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and used one of the long ones. I was about to scrub some of the inner workings, too (she has one of those IF series filters with the spray bar, but some stuff was getting through to the motor). It's working much better now. The shortest of the brushes is the widest, and it doesn't look useful for filter cleaning. Maybe it could scrub algae. The rest could be divided so each tank has its own brush.


----------



## themamaj

Oh really like that! Great idea thank you.


----------



## Sadist

I wasn't _about_ to scrub, I _managed_ to scrub. I got distracted by something when I made that post.


----------



## Sadist

Brynlee update: She's getting stronger, but she still isn't strong enough to sit without a seatbelt. She has good leg movements but can't quite stand on her own yet. They're going to keep her an extra 2 weeks as an inpatient for physical and occupational therapies. They have mixed feelings about staying -- glad that everything's working well enough that they think the extra time will work out but sad and frustrated that they can't go home yet. They thought they were going to be discharged on Friday this week and are disappointed. They're still adjusting to the wheelchair and limits it causes, too. They had a day pass to go out and do stuff in public a few days ago, and they were unable to eat at their restaurant choice. The booths were all full, and the chair tables were too high for Brynlee to eat at the tables. They ended up rushing to McDonald's for their last bit of time out. There were limits on what she could do and play with at the children museum because she couldn't stand. She still had a lot of fun, and everyone's keeping the best attitude they can about it.

Selenium came out to eat dinner yesterday and even ate by Blackiechat and swam around for a few hours. Now, he's hiding again. Cornelius has decided to adopt Blackiechat as a guppy and is hanging out with him a little bit more than normal. Everyone else is the same ol', same ol'.


----------



## Sadist

Everyone's doing about the same. I forgot to post my picture of Tequila that I drew a long time ago. For a while, I was making little cartoons of my fish's personalities.


----------



## themamaj

That is so good! How I admire those of you that can draw so well.


----------



## Sadist

Haha, thanks! It's a bit cartoony for my preference. My first drawing of them was with bath crayons, and my daughter had to write "it's not nice when you called Mrs. Fish beastie." next to Mr. Fish's drawing where they were arguing about who was going to get the bloodworm.

Lately, I've had the urge to learn to crochet, but I think I'll go ahead and resist as much as possible. Mother in law has a whole house full of boxes of yarn for her projects, and I know I'd end up that way, too. Unless I did it for money and managed to make a profit, I think it's just too money and time consuming.

I tried to sell the idea of a pet axolotl to my dad. Hehe. They're at a "no pet" stage of live since they work 80 hours a week and commute 2 hours to get there and back. They mostly just admire their pet wild animals from the porch when they have time to relax.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I crochet. It is time consuming and yeah you end up with yarn everywhere.


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## Sadist

Do you have a yarn bowl? I saw an advertisement for one that looked really nice and thought of getting one for MiL. Are they useful?


----------



## AccaliaJay

Never had one lol I do love crocheting though I just don't do it as often I take months of breaks from it


----------



## Sadist

Thanks!

Blackiechat let me pet him for a bit, mostly just petted his dorsal. I forgot to mention that Sky jumped an inch up at breakfast. She's really impatient with the food!


----------



## Sadist

On my quest for pets when the kiddo is old enough to do all the care, I came across bearded dragons. She's not terribly thrilled about them because they're a bit drab. I thought they'd be the easiest to care for of the lizard, especially since they don't get huge like iguanas. If iguanas stayed small, I'd choose them because of the vegetarian aspect, but the tiny bit of research I did notes that they need an outdoor enclosure with direct sunlight, and they get as big as small alligators. So, not wanting to spend $5,000 or more on a cage, I opted for something smaller.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/caresheet/
The Complete Bearded Dragon Care Sheet » Tips, Guidelines, & More

Please, if anyone has experience with these guys, let me know if there's more to add. I've noticed that direct experience gives one more insight to animal care beyond the care sheets.


Bad news -- Selenium looks bloated to me. I'm not sure if he chowed down on some plants or if he has an infection or what. I haven't seen him poop since his super constipated one when he first got here. He is swimming around a bit more than the past few days, but he's not as active as a healthy guppy and still hides most of the time.

Cornelius still seems healthy and chipper. Sometimes, he tries to get the ottos to play, but they just find a new hiding spot.

TS is doing great. He's staring at me right now. I tried to pet him yesterday, but he moved too much. I ended up touching his scales, and he wasn't sure about that.

Sky is still nested into her tangle-o-plants. She likes that better than the broad anubias leaves. I might accidently end up at petsmart for some more water wisteria. Her new IAL had already sunk after being in there over night. So much for her floaty boat!

Mrs. Fish is doing great still. Her water sprite has almost all of its fronds above water. The root systems are nice and broad from that. The cryptocoryne that was salvageable from the 10 gallon all those months ago seem to be doing well in her tank.


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## themamaj

Axolotl would be perfect then  

I started a crochet blanket when pregnant with first son. He will be 26 this fall. More like a scarf I never finished.


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## Sadist

Hubby was 40 when MiL finally finished blanket she started when he was a baby :-D It made a nice birthday present. The design is quilt-like, a bunch of squares with patterns in them, then connect them all into one big blanklet when the squares were done.

Axolotl would be perfect if our house wasn't so warm in the summer. We don't have a room anywhere in the house that stays cool enough for the fan system to work. The fish room is 78, coolest in the house in the summer. The house does have a separate central air unit for upstairs and downstairs, but even running constantly, the won't cool the house down to 72 in the summer. We raise the temperature up a degree at a time until it comes on and shuts off, and right now that's 80. Having it run non-stop drives up the bill too much and risks the air units freezing up and not working at all.


----------



## Autumncrossing

Sadist said:


> On my quest for pets when the kiddo is old enough to do all the care, I came across bearded dragons. She's not terribly thrilled about them because they're a bit drab. I thought they'd be the easiest to care for of the lizard, especially since they don't get huge like iguanas. If iguanas stayed small, I'd choose them because of the vegetarian aspect, but the tiny bit of research I did notes that they need an outdoor enclosure with direct sunlight, and they get as big as small alligators. So, not wanting to spend $5,000 or more on a cage, I opted for something smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/caresheet/
> 
> The Complete Bearded Dragon Care Sheet » Tips, Guidelines, & More
> 
> 
> 
> Please, if anyone has experience with these guys, let me know if there's more to add. I've noticed that direct experience gives one more insight to animal care beyond the care sheets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bad news -- Selenium looks bloated to me. I'm not sure if he chowed down on some plants or if he has an infection or what. I haven't seen him poop since his super constipated one when he first got here. He is swimming around a bit more than the past few days, but he's not as active as a healthy guppy and still hides most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Cornelius still seems healthy and chipper. Sometimes, he tries to get the ottos to play, but they just find a new hiding spot.
> 
> 
> 
> TS is doing great. He's staring at me right now. I tried to pet him yesterday, but he moved too much. I ended up touching his scales, and he wasn't sure about that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sky is still nested into her tangle-o-plants. She likes that better than the broad anubias leaves. I might accidently end up at petsmart for some more water wisteria. Her new IAL had already sunk after being in there over night. So much for her floaty boat!
> 
> 
> 
> Mrs. Fish is doing great still. Her water sprite has almost all of its fronds above water. The root systems are nice and broad from that. The cryptocoryne that was salvageable from the 10 gallon all those months ago seem to be doing well in her tank.




Bearded dragons make wonderful pets, I had one when I was a kid. They are MUCH nicer than iguanas! Mine never tried to bite me, and she loved just chilling on my shoulder. She was super easy to feed, lots of veggies and crickets. She loved getting strawberry all over her face lol. They're very calm, tame lizards . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SilviaAndScales

Have you looked at spotted geckos at all? Those little guys are adorable and somewhat hardy.
I feel terrible for asking this... But what kind of fish is Blackiechat, again?


----------



## Sadist

Blackiechat is a king betta. The only aggressive move I've seen from him is one flare and hunting gammarus shrimp.

Thanks for the info, Autumncrossing!

The hubby had suggested turtles, so I looked up some info on them today. Their care seems like a cross between lizard care and an aquarium. Must have this many gallons of water (and also a height), and a basking spot with special heat lamp this distance from turtle and special uv lamp. I looked up a smaller breed of turtle, and now I'm dreamily contemplating a 55 gallon aquarium with a turtle and some adf. Live plants everywhere, some with the lily pads on the surface, a piece of driftwood big enough for the turtle with anubias attached to the underwater part and the rest by the heat lamp. Maybe another basking spot made of piled rocks with crickets. Maybe I should get a bigger tank so I have enough room for an herb garden on one side. :-D All for daughter, of course. I'm sure she'd be thrilled by all the drab colors and having to cut up worms for the animals.


----------



## Sadist

Selenius passed away while I was picking up daughter from camp. Poor Cornelius keep going to look for him where I found his body. Daughter got to pick where we buried him, and he has some salvinia to keep him company.


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## Sadist

I bought more than one for replacement, so hopefully at least one will survive. I acclimated longer this time and have more lights off (before, I had just the tank light off and not the side lamp. They don't look overly happy at the moment, but hopefully one of the three will survive. Some water wisteria and an anubias also followed me home. The annubias is quarantined in a cup because some of the roots and rhizome look funky to me. The rhizome isn't squishy, but part of it is brown. I've never gotten one of the tube ones with a disease before, but I don't want to take any chances! the wisteria is floating in Sky's tank to make some more tangle of plants in a different area for her.


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## Sadist

Oh, look at this girl for sale on a facebook betta farm business! https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=eee34428abbda2872f5b504b73fcfe8b&oe=58024433 Got sidetracked. Must get back to work!


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## Sadist

Only one of the three appear to have survived the night. One disappeared, and another died. The third one came out for breakfast with Cornelius, and now they're swimming together and playing. Oh, found the second body. It's right next to Jr's shed, so I mistook it for part of that. There're a bunch of leaves in the way, and I couldn't tell the shapes apart too well. I only noticed it was a shed because it has a claw poking from the side, and now I can see a fish shape next to it. 

Jr's fine after her shed. Terrorizing the ottos and hogging the algae wafer to herself. I guess I'll have to start breaking them into pieces again.


----------



## Sadist

Ooo, and I just saw four ottos in the tank! They're all trying to get some wafer. I thought I was down to two.


----------



## 206Betta

Sorry about your loss but, great to hear that some of them survived. Maybe you can feed them in shifts. That way it'll give time for your ottos to get their food.


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## themamaj

Just catching up. Guppies seem to be sickly or tender dont they. I wonder if just stress under at stores. Sorry for losses! I hope this one does well. Wise to get several. Our aquarium store had a nice 5 gallon display tank with 3 white Moscow guppies. They are really pretty. Made me think of Cornelius as one boy following other like are you a girl???? They were all three boys. The one being followed had funniest look on face. 

Oh thinking of lizards squeal. Bearded dragons are so cute but size is what has steered me off of them. Can get a nice leopard gecko set up for not that expensive and easy to care for ) They eat mealworms and crickets. Daughter might like them? Trying to tell myself that I need one for "grandson" Lol 

Turtles are great too. I have alway had box turtles but the slider aquatics are super cute. My neighbor had aquatic turtles growing up.


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## themamaj

Really gorgeous female on breeder post!


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## Sadist

Surviving guppy is doing great! She's mostly black. I want to name her Kina, She is the Darkness, but that should be reserved for any black copper girls that follow me home. The two that died, I thought they were pregnant already, but now I wonder if they were bloated from store's food. All guppy food is flakes. I feed mostly frozen with the community formula instead of pellets. Everyone enjoyed their blood worms today. Cornelius and girlfriend are totally bonded, and he isn't even trying to inseminate her constantly. They swim together. I expect a high mortality rate with babies and mommas cycling and not a huge build up of living guppies. Blackiechat will make a good population control when they're little, though I'll move more java moss in there so some survive.

Betta left the wafer alone, just the crayfish who hogged it. Her claw waving kept the ottos at bay while she took her share. I used to break them into pieces so there would be some wafer bits scattered everywhere instead of at one place. I can go back to that. So excited that I still have 4 ottos. I should rehome them to someone with a bigger tank and room to increase their shoal.

Everyone else is doing the same. Caught Sky napping at breakfast time (I was a bit late, family let me sleep in, thanks!). She noticed the blood worms and woke up all happy and bloodthirsty.


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## themamaj

So you have a girl????? Cant wait to see fry  Had friend bring me tank to church. Was putting it car when another friend said hey if you like fish I have tank in my garage with filter for my girls but they weren't interested. You can have it if want it. YES! Now having more big tanks empty...hmmmm


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## BettaSplendid

Cornelius has a REAL GIRLfriend!? Well, he must be pleased. "Well done, human, you finally got it right." 

Oooo, 2 new tanks, mamaj? I tell people about my fishie friends but no one has yet to offer me a free tank.


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## themamaj

Just got tank out of car from friend. I thought way she described a 5.5 but it is a 10! Needes to be cleaned up but has some carbon I can use. Dechlorinator still in date but always a bit hesitate to use. Some type pump motor. Will have to goggle it and see if something can use or not. Can't beat free! Hmm now what to do with it????


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## Sadist

Wow, how exciting a free tank! And it isn't all crusted and yucky!

Yes, Cornelius and girlfriend seem happy with each other. I'd hoped two girls would survive so one wouldn't be pestered to make babies constantly. They can store several pregnancies of sperm packets from one mating; it seems a bit counterintuitive for the males to want to procreate so much!


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## themamaj

Silly question but once she is pregnant will the males continue to harass? Is there a point where she will shoe them away if nearing delivery?


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## ShadeSlayer

When did you get ottos?
I’m impressed that you managed to get a black guppy. I’ve never seen one before over here. Do you have any pics?


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Silly question but once she is pregnant will the males continue to harass? Is there a point where she will shoe them away if nearing delivery?


I think they might still pester them constantly, not sure. The last week or more of pregnancy, the other females I had got really pissy with everyone. They'd hide and have massive constipated poos. They'd nip at anyone who came close. 



ShadeSlayer said:


> When did you get ottos?
> I’m impressed that you managed to get a black guppy. I’ve never seen one before over here. Do you have any pics?


I've had ottos for about a year, maybe longer. I had 7 for a while, but I've lost a few. I don't have any pictures of the new girl yet; if she lives two more weeks, I'll post a bunch of pictures! Right now, I'm trying to make sure she settles in and doesn't get sick.


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## Sadist

After being so excited that there are 4 ottos, one got stuck trying to hide in the breeding net cave. Those things are so stupid with hiding spots. His head was wedged in between the plastic and net. I managed to dig him out, but now I wonder if all those scars and such from Mr. Fish's alleged attacks were just ottos being stupid about hiding spots. I recall one tried to hide in a veggie clip and died over night when its head got wedged in. I stopped using any sort of clips after that. I haven't been able to get any plants attached to the breeding net without taking it out and tying them on, so I guess I'll remove it and make a cave for Tigress Jr there. She uses it as a hide; her daddy dug a tunnel under it when they first arrived.

New guppy is super sweet, comes over to play with my finger when I visit the tank.

I moved Mrs. Fish's new anubias to next to her tank, and she was really looking at it. I hope it's healthy and able to go in there in a few weeks!


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## themamaj

Sounds like new guppy settling in. Cant wait to see pictures.


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## Sadist

I had a weird dream that I had bred my bettas even though the coloring and tail types aren't a match (much like the two guppies, actually). One of the fish fry looked like a dragon, and I really wanted to keep it.


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## BettaSplendid

I am sure there is a market for dragon bettas! I want a female with a sturdy top fin that sticks out of the water like a shark.


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## themamaj

Cool idea dragon bettas


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## Sadist

Hehe, it looked like a monster dragon, long neck and snakey tail and such. It was about the size of a guppy, though. Most of the dream was almost nightmarish with water change accidents and such. I recall during a water change, I accidentally removed all the water, and the fry were starting to dry up at the bottom of the tank. Silly dreams.


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## Sadist

Took a quick picture while everyone was out. Cornelius is there, but he zipped over to the left edge, hidden by the corner blur area.


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## AccaliaJay

His girl is pretty XD


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## BettaSplendid

Great picture! cpo is so big now. I like the new girl. She looks big and mature already.


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## Sadist

Her belly is expanding with babies. She's still a lot smaller than Cornelius in body length. I hope she survives! 

Jr is really huge, isn't she? She tromps around like queen of the tank when she isn't molting. She's like a tank or bulldozer except very fast.


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## ShadeSlayer

Tank looks great, and your female is GORGEOUS! Any names yet?


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## AccaliaJay

Welp I'm down and depressed. Been working for three weeks on helping around the house more than iv ever done, tried to have a good attitude and try not fighting with my mom. My dad said if I make my mom happy he'd get me a laptop. She said do dishes but thanks to camping, babysitting and dog sitting I didn't get them done. My parents also knew I wanted to go to Petsmart in a Traverse to look at new substrate which I have the money for. And also my dad promised to take me to Benzie to look at the petstore to see if they have any I want. Guess where they went today without even asking if I wanted to go or if I wanted them to look for anything? Traverse. They went to get my mom a new phone since they shattered hers. And guess what else they got? A tablet for my less than 2 year old sister. And as my dad showed me it he was like "use this and an incentive to get dishes done" and when I pointed out that I had done a lot of the dishes over the past three weeks plus a lot of laundry, plus havnt been fighting with my mom all he said was "but you didn't get dishes done" so I think I'll just stop asking and when they ask me why I'm ignoring them I'll say "like you ignored me asking to go to petsmart or benzie to look at substrate for my tanks. Or have you forgotten that I told you I keep pushing off doing 100% tank cleanings so I can do them when I get new substrate" and it's not only this that makes me upset. I cannot find my headphones anywhere. I had them by the couch with my purse when I got home three days ago and their no where to be found" I only have my Bluetooth headphones but they need charged and my mom has the only charger that works for them. I'm just honestly glad my brother Ryan hasn't been in a bad mood lately. He's been letting me on his computer to play my game and even use his headphones when he's gone. He also paid me for dog sitting his dog. Only good thing to happen so far today. Sorry for complaining here but it just really upsets me when my parents over look the ammount of what I'm doing. They only look at if it's done or not.


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## AccaliaJay

And more bad news I just noticed that I have not seen any adult male guppies in my 10 gallon. So they must be dead


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## Sadist

I haven't thought of any good names for her. Maybe Princess. She's such a sweety. 

I'm sorry things are rought at home, AccaliaJay. As soon as you're able, get a job and your own place and bring all your pets. That's the only thing I can think to get out of such an environment. In the meanwhile, like you said, try to ignore as much of the bad as you can so you can deal with everything until you're old enough to move out. I remember my dad threatening to kick me out and then call the cops on me to get a record as a run away. He was trying to help me do more on my own and be a better person, but it just made me stressed out that my one safe place in the world (home) wasn't safe.


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## AccaliaJay

I'm trying my best. My dad this morning told my mom I need to step it up or leave. I'm just so tired of hearing it. I need a break. And I'm 18 but no drivers license or Id so if I got a job id have no way to it. Cause I'd doubt any of my family would give me a ride. Con to living so far away to everything.


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## Sadist

:-( They should be pushing you to get a driver's licence and helping you get your own car. Mine did that -- they enrolled me into a driving class, and then got the car loan in their name (I had to pay it) so the interest and such would be lower. Of course, I didn't have any pets that were my own, we just had a cat that I did all the chores for. I ended up having to join the military to get away eventually. A good recruiter will drive out to the boonies to get you for all the paperwork and testing, so that's not something to worry about if you end up going that route.


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay I am so sorry things have been so difficulty for you. It sounds like parents were not fair in not following through what they told you they would do. I can see how you would be frustrated. I hope you are able to get the supplies you need soon. Maybe you can start studying for the drivers test. Most states have practice tests online to help you study. My daughter did a lot of those before got permit. Ours was the state name.gov. Maybe that is starting place to look. I will be praying for you and your family situation. Hang in there.

Sadist I love new guppy. So pretty. Jr is so big! Your tank is lovely. 

What branch of service were you in?


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## AccaliaJay

I'm not fit for military. And I think their being unfair. My dad taught all my siblings to drive and been saying for years he would teach me but it hasn't happened. Iv pretty much stopped asking him. Only my brother Richie and their wife have let me drive down their road and they said I did pretty good I just need the experience.

And thanks themamaj. I never knew they had those? Is it laptop and computer only or do you know if it works on phones.


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## themamaj

I assume you can access site from any device. Most Dept Motor Vehicles have study books as well. Maybe you could get your brother to pick up a book for you. They are free or if you call them they might even mail it to you.


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## AccaliaJay

I might have to ask my brother Richie since he's always saying I should get my ID and drivers License he keeps tell me to get them so I can vote, though I have absolutely no interest in politics what so ever XD he says I should since it's my future but who knows I may move to Alaska away from civilization. Or London or maybe Australia lol I can use the excuse that if me having no help in getting my stuff bothers him he should help me since I babysit his kids even though I don't want to and he rips me off quite often. One day I babysat 6 hours all three kids and his two dogs and he only gave me $3. Made my dad angry when he found out. People keep telling me to charge him 2-3 an hour for each kid but I let him choose because he will say I should be babysitting for free. Since were siblings.


----------



## Sadist

themamaj said:


> AccaliaJay I am so sorry things have been so difficulty for you. It sounds like parents were not fair in not following through what they told you they would do. I can see how you would be frustrated. I hope you are able to get the supplies you need soon. Maybe you can start studying for the drivers test. Most states have practice tests online to help you study. My daughter did a lot of those before got permit. Ours was the state name.gov. Maybe that is starting place to look. I will be praying for you and your family situation. Hang in there.
> 
> Sadist I love new guppy. So pretty. Jr is so big! Your tank is lovely.
> 
> What branch of service were you in?


I was in the Navy. Fish keeping suits me after that!



AccaliaJay said:


> I might have to ask my brother Richie since he's always saying I should get my ID and drivers License he keeps tell me to get them so I can vote, though I have absolutely no interest in politics what so ever XD he says I should since it's my future but who knows I may move to Alaska away from civilization. Or London or maybe Australia lol I can use the excuse that if me having no help in getting my stuff bothers him he should help me since I babysit his kids even though I don't want to and he rips me off quite often. One day I babysat 6 hours all three kids and his two dogs and he only gave me $3. Made my dad angry when he found out. People keep telling me to charge him 2-3 an hour for each kid but I let him choose because he will say I should be babysitting for free. Since were siblings.


He's way under the pricing for day cares. Day cares charge between $150 and $200 per kid for a week. Of course, that could be 12 hours a day and includes education and food. Sometimes, family watches for free because they have the time and want to spend time with the kiddos.


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## ShadeSlayer

@Sadist my best friend is in the Navy. 
@AccaliaJay Sorry about the parents deal and believe me I understand. Unlike you, I have to chop and stack a literal mountain of firewood for my new phone.
Fun.


----------



## AccaliaJay

I know my parents friend Danielle knows the prices for Daycare. I have time cause all I do is sit on my phone and laptop writing and playing my game or creating mmd videos however hanging out with my brothers kids is like being put in a cage with demons. Aiden is 8 and is somewhat okay until he throws a rare temper tantrum which can get bad. He's really emotional though. Like you tell him he's grounded so he can't play games and he stomps away and starts crying in his room. Maddie who is 4 is probably the worst. She doesn't listen and when you punish her she just smiles. She's only scared of her dad. She also will not stop getting into makeup. I swear iv taken hundred of fingernail polish and eyeshadow away from her. And she hates sharing. Brynlee is two she'll be three Christmas Eve. She has days when she won't listen or all she wants to do is cry. But other days she'll obey when you ask her to help clean if you tell her what to pick up. The only bad thing that I really hate is she still not potty trained. I hate changing diapers and my brother always asks me to do it when it's a poop one. He even tries to bribe me with a dollar or less. When he offered me a live in babysitting position for $45 a week there's a lot of issues I have with it. Number one being my dog. I won't leave him behind but he's a grumpy old man and they have two dogs. Three male dogs in the house is asking for trouble. Two my tanks. I'm not so much worried about Aiden as I am with the two girls there's no door to lock them out. Not only that but the room is up old steps that feel like they'd give way any minute I would hate haul to haul jugs of water up the steps. Now the condition of the room also bothers me. The steps and lack of door. Not only that there's no railing to stop you from falling onto the steps. It gets hot up there in the summer and winter when a fire is going and the window can't be opened. I'm pretty sure up there is how bats get in. Iv woken up once at this house I'm in now with a bat flying over head and it was not fun. I could not handle it twice. There's two rooms upstairs. Both have been bedrooms at points but it's still hot, muggy and awful up there. I'm pretty sure I would know exactly what Richie would say if I told him all the reasons why I don't want to be his live in babysitter lol


----------



## themamaj

That's neat. What was your position or what did you do in navy? My brother in law was a medical core man in navy.


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## Sadist

I worked with cryptography. Maybe you can ask your brother what's with the Navy doctors always wanting you to take off your pants. Was it to keep them from being wrinkled? Sprained ankle? Take off your pants. Hurt my back. Pants have to go. They did let me keep my pants on when I had a sinus infection, but it was a near thing.


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## AccaliaJay

I should have avoided looking at petsmarts page. Now I want to try hermit crabs lol


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## ShadeSlayer

Hermit crabs are what my best friend has. They do literally nothing.


----------



## ThatFishThough

ShadeSlayer said:


> Hermit crabs are what my best friend has. They do literally nothing.


Pretty much LOL.


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## AccaliaJay

But the fancy ones are pretty XD and I finally started a job I planned weeks ago. Moving my guppies and ghost shrimp from the five to the ten. I got the guppies now just need the ghost shrimp which I hate. They jump out to fast. And hey iv noticed something ghost shrimp remind me of cats. The hunting, jumping and hiding away aspect you know? And bettas I guess you could say are more like dogs cause they let you pet them as sadist has experienced and they sometimes beg. What would guppies be though.. Hmm


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## ThatFishThough

Guppies shall be guppies forever LOL


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I can't think of an animal so I guess that would be right


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## AccaliaJay

No I know they are pigs! Cause male pigs will harass females until they abort the babies! XD


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## Sadist

Jr is stalking things in the java fern, trying to climb up. Maybe she wants guppies today.

Got all the little tanks cleaned today, but back is super sore after the huge reach to add water to Mrs. Fish's cage without pouring it too fast. I need a different place to stand! I just remembered I still have seaweed for the ottos. It's messy, so I didn't feed it to them for a long time. Plus, without the clip, it floats all over. I wedged some of it between the glass and my stripey plant that has to keep the leaves above water. For the live of me, I can never remember what that's called. I also threw in an algae wafer for Jr near her hidey hole.

Later today, I'm going to get some more rocks for Tigress Jr's hides. Tomorrow, when I clean that tank, I'll take out the breeding net ottodeathtrap and make some rock piles (and maybe new plants, but shh, don't tell hubby). The original CPO's built some tunnels under the sunken breeding net, and there were gammarus shrimp breeding in it. After the otto got his head wedged in there, I have to take it out.

I also bought some better lettuce today. Hopefully, I can lure more snails out of the tank.

We went hiking yesterday on a nice, gentle, easy hike. Of course, daughter is the one who came home covered in ticks. She stops to play in the dirt and brushes the plants more. There were some trees down, so she probably got them going around those. Hubby and I lift our legs really high, but she just kicks her way through the undergrowth. I feel so bad, recalling she said her socks were starting to hurt her on the way home. That's where the ticks were. One was on her lady bits, but it hadn't attached yet. I forgot to tell the camp teachers that she got bit by ticks and to watch for fever. I'm wondering if I should trust them to call me if she gets a fever or if I should call them to let them know. I recall her preK teacher, even knowing I was home during her half day of pre-K, didn't call when she had a fever. I picked her up and immediately could tell something was wrong, got home and 101 fever (strep throat and ear infection).

Guppies still look good. Everyone has a good appetite in there. Little Princess seems to be growing her babies quite well.


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## themamaj

Boy ticks are awful this year. Does the deep woods off spray repell them at all? 

That is so neat you did cryptography in navy. That is my Dad's specialty. He has done some work for military as well but as a civilian. 

Any prediction on when Princess might deliver?


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## Sadist

I would guess she'll deliver in 3 more weeks or so.

Off is supposed to repel ticks very well, but I can't find one without fragrance in it. Daughter and I can't have fragrance on our skin, and I can't breath it, either. There's no way I could sit in confined space (car) with fragrance on all three of us. I sprayed some on our shoes when we got home. The "unscented" one still has fragrance in it, but it dissipated in the house after 5 hours.


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## Autumncrossing

Thermacells work wonders. Biologists use them when we go out on hikes as do a lot of hunters. It's a little butane canister that burns a repeller so you don't have to put anything on your body and it has a huge radius. And in regards to getting ticks off I've found a trick, instead of trying to pull out the head with tweezers or whatever have you instead take a small cotton ball and dab some dish soap on the tick. Rub the ticks body in a clockwise motion for a couple minutes with the cotton ball and it'll let right go! 


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## Sadist

Nice! The dish soap work for hubby and me. Daughter can't have soap on her skin. These were tick nymphs, so I barely noticed they were on her. They looked like the types of scabs you get when your skin comes off on one pore. Then, I saw legs. Yucky! I'll have to look into the repeller things. I've seen walkers use them, but I have to find some with no fragrances. I'm super allergic to fragrance.


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## Autumncrossing

The Thermacell has an "earth scent" I have severe allergies (so bad I get shots) and it hasn't caused
me to have an attack yet . You only turn it on when you're outside. The little buggers are the worst  so hard to get off.


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## themamaj

Where can u get thermacell?


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## Autumncrossing

They sell them on Amazon and pretty much any kind of outdoorsy store like gander mountain, cabelas, etc. 


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## ShadeSlayer

Man I’ll definitely have to look into that. We live at the edge of a huge field and our cats hunt in it, so I’m always worried about them dragging ticks in or me getting one when I go out to find them. I’m not allergic to scents, but I HATE the smell of bug spray, so i’ll look into the thermacell. I think I remember seeing in in Cabellas once. 
@Sadist is it hard for you to walk by Bath and Body Works in the mall? That place reeks of perfume stuff even outside the store. My mom loves it and usually I can’t smell anything but flowers for an hour or so upon leaving it. Walking into Hot Topic smelling like a flower bomb has attracted some odd looks... It’s like one bathed in a gallon of body spray. My little brother actually refuses to go into B&BW.

On a side note, i’m excited to see what color of fry your guppy girl has if she lives and the fry make it.


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## Sadist

Yes, I can't even go into places like B&BW. Even with my allergy pills, I get a headache from going to the grocery store or any store with a lotion aisle. I used to love getting smelly stuff, too. Now, I have to find fragrance free dishwasher soap because the fake lemon scent lingers in the kitchen and gives me a headache. 

I'm interested in my guppy mutts, too! Cornelius was such a surprise since his parents were both speckled guppies.


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## Sadist

I forgot to mention, we stopped by the TN river to play for a bit, and there was wild anacharis and hornwort at the edge of the water! I really wanted to bring some home, but I didn't have any containers with me. I'm not sure if I have a good quarantine bucket left, either. We cleaned garage, and hubby put my normal one 8 feet up on top of some boxes with no area to put a ladder nearby.


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## Sadist

I have three bug bites today :-( I'm really hoping a spider crawled in bed with me and not some tick that escaped our clothing before it was washed! I did all the laundry yesterday except daughter's. I've also come to the conclusion that it's my car that hurts my back >.< I thought I had a kidney infection yesterday. It felt fine this morning, then started hurting while I was driving around doing chores and dropping daughter off at art camp.


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## AccaliaJay

Guys I have some questions I'm hoping you can help me with and give opinions. I'm on the very edge of getting a laptop. I have $54 but I'll need some for a new laptop mouse if my dad doesn't buy me one. I'll scrounge for batteries at home we have tons everywhere.

Anyways I don't know how much substrate will cost. Iv decided to only do my 10 and Liberty's 5 gallon tank. So if I have extra money because I'm cheap and if I like a cheap substrate I need to know what to do with the extra. 

Choice one is food. Thanks to my mom using all our tropical then not paying attention and buying goldfish food that's all my fish are eating. Even Liberty. I don't know if goldfish food is any more nutritional than tropical but I would like to get him betta flakes again. He won't eat pellets so I feel bad knowing he's carnivorous and isn't getting the meaty food like he should. I wish I could get him the treats you all manage to feed yours but anything that isn't storable in my room might end up in the trash. However that's not my only worry in food department. I'm worried my snails in my ten aren't getting enough algae. And I don't think the rocks in a jar in a sunny place will give them enough. That and when my rocks were in my five which miraculously grow algae like crazy yet can't keep moss balls alive they weren't getting any algea it was only my fake plants, gravel and walls. Anything I can do besides get rid of them? Were talking about two nerites and one assassin. I have the extra five which I could clean and set up again and maybe it will grow algae and I could put them in every week or so to clean? But I'm hoping for a salution to use in my ten. If I add a algae wafer even if they wanted to eat it the guppies tear into it first. I tried a few times they picked at it like it was the greatest thing in the world for some odd reason. Weird guppies...

However the algae tank idea wouldn't seem pointless if I can't stop myself from bringing home another betta. I have that nagging feeling that the betta magnet is gonna pull me toward that direction whether I realize/want it or not. 

Or I could go the stupid direction of getting plants and stuff to make the tank pretty. I'll tell you now though I have a feeling id be better off getting plants from Meijers. They have plant tags on their tanks with prices and even plants in their tanks which looked pretty healthy. As for petsmart iv never seen plants in their tanks. But then I havnt been there for a long time.

I'm putting my idea of Hermits off to better my tanks conditions. That and I've already made my mom mad enough talking about what I want to do with my tanks. So what should I go for appearance or quality of food. I'm leaning toward food but I would love others opinions.


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## BettaSplendid

Do you just want gravel or a special sort of substrate for plants? If just gravel, I believe you can get large bags for cheap at garden centers in the home improvement type stores. If you like the natural colors. If you got a plant like water wisteria from petsmart, it will soon grow amd grow and groooow amd you can take clippings and get "new" plants that way. It can be rooted, left floating, it does well in low light and with more light! So versatile and cheap. I bought one tube of it and now have it in abundance, even gave a ton away to my mom for her tanks. 

Don't know what to suggest for the snails. I know Nerites can eat a lot ! If I set up an extra 5 gallon for snails you better believe it would have a betta in it, like within a week. I am weak. I can barely resist putting a betta in my shrimp tank! And I like my shrimp... Just... BETTA!


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist, I love your new avatar! Beware of betta!


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## Sadist

Nerites are prone to starving to death if there isn't enough natural algae present. Most of them will not eat algae wafers or blanched veggies like other types of snails. Assassin snails will eat fallen fish food as well as pond snails and other small snails. The best bet with those is to sell the nerites, keep the assassin snail (you can hide a blood worm for it somewhere the fish can't reach). Quality food is good if you have extra money. I would buy good food before substrate. Goldfish flakes, I imagine, don't have the nutrition that bettas need no matter how great they are for goldfish. I think your bettas run into health problems and things that require expensive medicine if they only get omnivore food. I'm the mom in the family, so I just label the frozen and defrosted stuff really well, and everyone else has to leave it alone.

I fed everyone blood worms today. They were very enthusiastic, even Jr, who romped through the feeding zone, waved her claws around, and ran off with a blood worm that made it to the gravel. I held Sky and petted Tequila Sunrise (TS for short, especially since daughter renamed him to TreeSun). I managed to get some pond snails out of the 10 with the lettuce from two days ago. Yesterday, it only had gammarus shrimp on it. Some shrimp swam away from it and made breakfast time extra festive for Blackiechat.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> Guys I have some questions I'm hoping you can help me with and give opinions. I'm on the very edge of getting a laptop. I have $54 but I'll need some for a new laptop mouse if my dad doesn't buy me one. I'll scrounge for batteries at home we have tons everywhere.
> 
> Anyways I don't know how much substrate will cost. Iv decided to only do my 10 and Liberty's 5 gallon tank. So if I have extra money because I'm cheap and if I like a cheap substrate I need to know what to do with the extra.
> 
> Choice one is food. Thanks to my mom using all our tropical then not paying attention and buying goldfish food that's all my fish are eating. Even Liberty. I don't know if goldfish food is any more nutritional than tropical but I would like to get him betta flakes again. He won't eat pellets so I feel bad knowing he's carnivorous and isn't getting the meaty food like he should. I wish I could get him the treats you all manage to feed yours but anything that isn't storable in my room might end up in the trash. However that's not my only worry in food department. I'm worried my snails in my ten aren't getting enough algae. And I don't think the rocks in a jar in a sunny place will give them enough. That and when my rocks were in my five which miraculously grow algae like crazy yet can't keep moss balls alive they weren't getting any algea it was only my fake plants, gravel and walls. Anything I can do besides get rid of them? Were talking about two nerites and one assassin. I have the extra five which I could clean and set up again and maybe it will grow algae and I could put them in every week or so to clean? But I'm hoping for a salution to use in my ten. If I add a algae wafer even if they wanted to eat it the guppies tear into it first. I tried a few times they picked at it like it was the greatest thing in the world for some odd reason. Weird guppies...
> 
> However the algae tank idea wouldn't seem pointless if I can't stop myself from bringing home another betta. I have that nagging feeling that the betta magnet is gonna pull me toward that direction whether I realize/want it or not.
> 
> Or I could go the stupid direction of getting plants and stuff to make the tank pretty. I'll tell you now though I have a feeling id be better off getting plants from Meijers. They have plant tags on their tanks with prices and even plants in their tanks which looked pretty healthy. As for petsmart iv never seen plants in their tanks. But then I havnt been there for a long time.
> 
> I'm putting my idea of Hermits off to better my tanks conditions. That and I've already made my mom mad enough talking about what I want to do with my tanks. So what should I go for appearance or quality of food. I'm leaning toward food but I would love others opinions.



I got ten pounds of plain sand at my LFS for $5, so 15-20 pounds for your tanks should be around $10-$15 bucks if it's just plain sand. As for food I’d definitely get some of the right flakes. My moss balls really perked up after I started dosing with a liquid fertilizer. As for buying real plants, make sure your water conditions are optimal for what sort of plant you want and that your lighting is good, because otherwise they’ll melt and it’ll be a waste of money. Plants don’t just make you tanks pretty, they add oxygen to the water and absorb nitrates and all that good stuff, in addition to providing food for fry and a safe place to hide. Java moss is really cheap and easy to grow, with all those benefits I listed above. Can you only get one of the options, or multiple? Because food is pretty important.


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## AccaliaJay

(Iv rewritten this six time because it sounded off) 

I refuse to do sand. I'm to scared to. I was thinking a white gravel and mix in like a brown. I wanted caribsea ones but their over $20 each on the site so I might mix cheaper ones. 

Do you think I should just do my ten? Leave my fives fake since their lighting is questionable? My ten kept Marimo moss balls green and even the little bit of java moss from my cherry shrimp. However the java moss wouldn't stop getting stuck in the gravel vac. So I'll wait on doing more. Might save a bit of money doing only my ten. Have enough money for betta food and maybe a plant or two? My mom will be running low soon on food for her fish so I'll just remind her to get tropical and use some of hers till I earn enough to get some tropical at meijers or something. As for nerites I'll still need to do a full tank clean on all my tanks so ill need them incase my Algae enemy comes back when the tanks are recycling. 

If I somehow have enough money and get another betta do you think putting one Nerite in the other five gal leaving one Nerite and one assassin in the ten will cause the assassin to grow guts and try attacking my Nerite despite the Nerite still being bigger than the assassin? I'll rehome them if the algae that comes back isn't gonna hold them over for a while. But still gonna be sad I love my nerites XD they even give the ghost shrimp piggy back rides lol


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> (Iv rewritten this six time because it sounded off)
> 
> I refuse to do sand. I'm to scared to. I was thinking a white gravel and mix in like a brown. I wanted caribsea ones but their over $20 each on the site so I might mix cheaper ones.
> 
> Do you think I should just do my ten? Leave my fives fake since their lighting is questionable? My ten kept Marimo moss balls green and even the little bit of java moss from my cherry shrimp. However the java moss wouldn't stop getting stuck in the gravel vac. So I'll wait on doing more. Might save a bit of money doing only my ten. Have enough money for betta food and maybe a plant or two? My mom will be running low soon on food for her fish so I'll just remind her to get tropical and use some of hers till I earn enough to get some tropical at meijers or something. As for nerites I'll still need to do a full tank clean on all my tanks so ill need them incase my Algae enemy comes back when the tanks are recycling.
> 
> If I somehow have enough money and get another betta do you think putting one Nerite in the other five gal leaving one Nerite and one assassin in the ten will cause the assassin to grow guts and try attacking my Nerite despite the Nerite still being bigger than the assassin? I'll rehome them if the algae that comes back isn't gonna hold them over for a while. But still gonna be sad I love my nerites XD they even give the ghost shrimp piggy back rides lol



Sounds good on the shopping plans. My assassins are pretty placid and don’t bother any other fish/eachother. If the tank is big enough, chances are they may not even run into each-other.


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## AccaliaJay

I think iv seen them meet once but since neither are dead I guess they didn't care for it?


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## Sadist

From what I've read, they like the smaller species of snails and will eat them first.


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## AccaliaJay

Iv heard that they will gang up on bigger snails. Also heard just one will bully others. So more like worried about bullying XD but I guess as long as I watch to make sure their active it should be fine.. Hopefully.. On the happy note if I get the okay from my parents that my mom can take care of baby bottles and 1 pan that my mom burnt noodles into charcoal on the bottom I only have a huge pot to clean then I'm done!!! And then they better freaking keep our deal


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## Sadist

Sky happily perched on my fingers, and then she flared at my thumb above her, which was barely touching the water surface. Those evil thumbs!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol she doesn't like thumbs then


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## ShadeSlayer

I can imagine her looking so sassily at the thumbs with the classic betta evil eye. 
Dem thumbs.
They’re _evil_.


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## Sadist

I finally got the rocks and plants. They didn't have as many rocks as I wanted, but I couldn't really get them to stay stacked safely without gluing them together and such. I had a bit of an oops while doing the water change, though. That'll teach me to do water changes before coffee. I took the breeding net out and was getting all the mulm from under it before I put the rocks down, happily sucking up all that yucky stuff. I checked the bucket to see how much room I had left, and I had forgotten to put the other end of the hose in the bucket. Not just forgetting to clip it down, I just left it dangling. I had a gallon of brown sludge soaking into the carpet against the wall. Fun! I dumped a whole box of baking soda on it after I finished the water change, scrubbed that in, and applied many towels and paper towels to soak up enough to hopefully not cause permanent damage to the boards. Here's a lovely finished picture. Of course, I had problems getting the plants planted and ended up scattering them around the tank instead of all in the rocks. I figured the fry would like a less currenty place to hide. I plan on moving a hunk of java moss to the corner behind the rocks, too. Oh, and Blackiechat had his first bubble nest that I've seen, and I destroyed it. Poor guy. It was right above the net against the edge of the salvinia wall. I put a small IAL piece there when I finished so he'd have a better anchoring area.


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## themamaj

I have done that with hose. Ugg. Sounds like you mopped it up quick so shouldn't be issue. Tank looks great! I am so behind on water changes due to travel and having grandson this week. Tonight and tomorrow will be marathon days. Princess little belly looks like growing with fry  Poor Blackichat probably thinking I worked so hard on the perfect nest. Of course nothing like a good water change to spur them into action again. Rocks you got are very pretty.


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## Sadist

Thanks! We have carpet in the fish room, so it's more tricky to get up. I think the baking soda will keep it from staining. I seriously never vacuumed under that net once I sunk it, so the water was really yuck.

I really love those rocks, too. I get the natural river rocks (probably like your "crystals" you and grandson collect, but mine are from the store instead of a nice creek). I left some hollow places for Jr to dig little caves in.

Poor Blackiechat with his nest. He may have had it for a while, just where the lid hinge hides it.

Princess is starting to get nippy with Corneleus. Poor girl. It's stressful to grow 20 babies! I think she's halfway there, about like BettaSplendid (but only 2 weeks left instead of 19-20).


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## BettaSplendid

Haha! 

That sucks about the water syphon. At least there weren't fishies flopping around on the carpet. There's always a bright side.  

And now... a moment of silence for Blackiechat's bubblenest. 

.... 

May it be rebuilt more frothy, more expansive, and well anchored to his leaf.


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## AccaliaJay

Ugh my dad cannot plan properly. He gets home and my mom starts spamming me with texts saying to get dressed. Well I had to dig through every drawer and basket to find a shirt and then thankfully my dogs hadn't laid on my hoodie because it was the only hoodie I have that doesn't have the dog smell engrave into it. So now I'm on my way to petsmart then a laptop from best buy. Hopefully neither are crowded I still smell like dog just topped with Fleur de Paris perfume x.x I wonder if my dad's gonna get frustrated when were in petsmart. Gravel, betta food and maybe a plant or two. I gotta leave atleast 10-14 dollars for a new mouse though. I had wished we could have went to best buy first


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## AccaliaJay

So water wisteria was sold out. The worker said any of the Anubis plants work well and she showed me a shelf with cupped plants so I bought one Anubis nana and one banana plant. I got a 24pound bag of whitish gravel and a 5 pound bag of brownish orange. I mostly got the banana cause my dad said it was cool looking. It was so hard resisting a betta. They had a red half moon and one had a huge fin I forgot the tail type but it was white and pink but boy was it freaking expensive. Like $25. also got national geographic betta flakes my total was $58 my dad gave me a twenty cause I had mostly ones thanks to it being mostly what my brothers paid me with XD but yeah


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## ShadeSlayer

@AccaliaJay glad things are working out better for you.


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## AccaliaJay

I'm glad to now I just need to clean my room and have my dad help setting the laptop up. I wish they would have had water wisteria though.


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## Sadist

I'm thinking of moving one of the water sprites from Mrs. Fish's tank to the 10 gallon. The water sprite has decided to send fronds above the water line and is really loving the light there. One more week on the anubias quarantine, and I'll move the water sprite over and replace that root area with the anubias floating. The water sprite looks perfect for fry hideaway.


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## Sadist

A Brynlee update:


> Rehab Day 47
> ‪#‎brynleesbattle‬
> Here's some info on Brynlee's current state of recovery. She can move her legs, and she can lift left leg pretty well. Can only partially lift right leg, it's still "sleepy", but no problem with moving ankle or foot. She can roll over and bring herself into a crawl position, although it's much tougher work than it was before. She can roll herself over and come up from laying to sitting.
> She can sit, although it requires work to keep herself from hunching over. Shr is safe sitting on the floor although we are mindful if she is kneeling as she can fall. She is impulsive so should not sit in a raised chair unless it's deep with someone watching her. She seems to think she can just stand up and needs someone there ready and watching to catch her when she tries. It's a lot like a toddler who can't walk or stand yet, you wouldn't leave them on a raised surface alone. She will need a special chair for bathing and toileting to keep her safe.
> She stands and attempts walking during therapy only. She does a lot of the work herself but needs the therapist and braces and a walker to support her.
> All of this is SO much more than she could do not long ago!! Just three months ago she couldn't feel or move her legs. We think she can feel everything now.
> Bladder and bowel are still neurogenic. We've been told these are often the last to recover from a spinal cord injury.
> The doctors still don't give any percentages of recovery and can't say whether she will return to walking again. But they have said the level of recovery thus far is very good, so that is encouraging!
> Brynlee remains her typical happy self, expecting this all to be temporary. Her positivity makes this all so much easier. I do worry about how she will react when she's around other kids again and starts to realize the things she can no longer participate in. But I could worry about a lot of things that could be a waste of time. So instead we will take it one day at a time, and overcome one obstacle at a time.
> We loved seeing our visitors this weekend and enjoyed our overnight pass at the Ronald McDonald House!


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## AccaliaJay

That's good she's working hard! 

I have begun cleaning my 10gal so far I'm halfway there. All fish/shrimp/snails are out surprisingly no shrimp jumped at me. All that's left is to drain water take gravel out and begin adding in new gravel XD I'm not sure how to go about cleaning out the tiny specks of colored gravel that always pops up at the bottom of the tank. Might have to take most water out and haul it to the shower after netting the gravel out the best I can


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## AccaliaJay

Almost done but I got the decor the way I want it. Well not all the way but it's not moving anymore. I just need to add more water and plug in the filter and heater. I think I'll wait till tomarrow to add in any fish. The snails will be in the five gallon where the guppies are but I'll wait to add them till I clean the 5 gallon so they have the algae that's been growing in there. I also didn't add the brown gravel I got. I dunno why XD maybe I'm just scared it's gonna be hideous after.


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## ShadeSlayer

so glad Brynlee is getting better! Slow and steady progress


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## themamaj

Great to hear updates on everyone


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## Sadist

> Rehab Day 48
> ‪#‎brynleesbattle‬
> Today was a blessed day! Mitch and I are learning how to walk Brynlee with her walker and I realized first hand that the therapists are no longer giving her any support other than to catch her when she gets too weak and begins to fall. She wears a gait belt and I simply hold my hand around it so I can catch her. Every step she takes is 100% her own strength! Amazing! She can only walk short distances, but the fact that she can is awesome. Her left leg still doesn't pick up as well as her right, but it's improving
> We ran into our friend Tillery in the halls on A7 today, and the girls got to walk together. So Nice! Brynlee's friend Allie came and sat by her door tonight so they could play Bingo together. Brynlee loved it. She's Allies number one fan!
> Please keep the prayers up for continued strength. We are seeing improvement so much faster than anyone expected. We want to continue this momentum!!!!


So she's able to walk without the therapist there! This is great progress. Now, they have to figure out what to do about the surgery for the other side. Her legs are uneven now that she's had the hip and knee fixed on one side, so she really needs the surgery.

I found a baby water sprite in Sky's cage and moved it over to the 10 gallon. The green is above water/salvinia to reach the light, and I'm hoping for some good growth. It's been in Sky's cage for a long time (close to a year), but the sun isn't consistent enough to grow everything the way I'd like.

Princess is due in around 10 days. Maybe 11-12, depends on how comfy she is in her home. She's still doing well, eating well, and exercising. Hehe. Well, she's not sick and hiding. I have high hopes for her, and I've bonded with her, too. Cornelius is still doing well, too. None of the new plants have died in there yet, so I hope they continue doing well. I haven't moved any java moss yet, but I should do so soon. Maybe some more leaves in the rocky area for Tigress Jr. The leaf above that area has drifted way over to the back left corner and fallen in the otto feeding area.

Mrs. Fish, Sky, and TS are still doing really well. After DangerousAngel's boy with the internal tumor, I wonder if that's what's going on with Sky. She's still runty even with all the growing she's done since she followed me home. It just seems weird to me that all of the sudden, she has a permanent swim bladder problem. She's taken care of her eggs and dropped the breeding stripes. Oh well, she's adapted and is still super excited to see me, eat, and play with my fingers. She just rests more than she did before (but is active in between rests, much like a sick toddler who refuses to stay in bed unless their fever gets so high they can't move).


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## Sadist

https://www.facebook.com/628685088/videos/10157297710935089/ I think it's set to public, so even those without facebook can see her progress. She's such a fighter!


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## Sadist

Princess is so big with her pregnancy, now. I estimate about a week for her due date (mostly guessed by when she was added to the tank rather than her size). She really enjoyed an extra bloodworm day. I accidentally got two of my precut packs of bloodworms out yesterday, so there's lots of leftovers. When I got the bloodworms, I cut them all into 1 day chunks, wrapped those in foil, and put all in a baggie and labeled the date. I'd read to do that with people meat, and it seems to have worked well with fish food, too.

I had the weirdest dream -- I was moving into my childhood home (which has been sold) with a bunch of fish tanks. I also had an office with really big fish tanks, but they were having lighting problems and having some plants die. The plants looked like corn but short  Part of my dream was struggling to bring the big tanks home and find a place for them. In another part of my dream, I had two tanks in the area my homework desk used to be. The larger tank had a blue male with yellow fins, and the other tank had an eggy female with yellow fins. I picked up the female and put her in with the male, and they bred. The dream zoomed forward to time to take out the babies, and I moved them over to the female's tank with her. She ate some of the smaller ones, but the rest were swimming around with her all happy. The bigger ones looked like guppies  Silly brain.

I'm contemplating not putting java moss in the 10 gallon. With all the tangle of floating plants moved to the corner with less water motion, I think they can hide up there. It'll be close to the feeding area, too, so I can sneak some food to them. I was thinking of spirulina powder with them in the early days. The adult guppies mostly ignored it when I tried it -- the particles were too small. I used just a toothpick to get a few particles, so the tank isn't drenched or anything. I'm sure a snail will eat it. I was thinking of trying to make wafers with it if I can find a recipe. I might just do the snello recipe but with spirulina powder instead of fish food.


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## Sadist

Daughter made a sign for the guppy tank.


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## themamaj

Love sign!!! Funny dream. Mine are silly like that too. Excited about Princess. Can't wait to see baby guppy fry  Any color predictions?


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## Sadist

Mamma fish is black and silver, Daddy fish is reddish-orange and silver with black stripe, had spotted parents. Some sort of mutts to be sure!


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## ShadeSlayer

I’m not sure how you breed guppies for color. Any time my best friend tried it his fry ended up a mix.


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## ThatFishThough

Cool! I would never be able to breed guppies. My last of the trio I got was infected with Columnaris, and got my whole tank sick. >.< The first two died of Dropsy.


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## Sadist

Oh man. I originally tried them because live bearers were supposed to be easy, and I don't have the room and time for betta fry. The store guppies get sick so easily, though. All that transportation stress.


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## ShadeSlayer

Yeah guppies aren’t as hardy as they seem. You’ll get a bunch and one or two will be survivors for forever. I’m going to try again with my new 3.5 tank.


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## Sadist

Okay, some new (and poor) pictures of the guppy couple. I have high hopes of Princess or at least some of her babies surviving.


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## ShadeSlayer

Oooh, so pretty! I love the male’s coloring. You female is black and my endler girls are cellophane. Total opposites. My biggest female is about the same size as Princess,


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## Sadist

The male is the only survivor of Sunset's Brood.


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## BettaSplendid

Good pictures! Cornelius must be thrilled.


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## Sadist

Thanks! We'll see how he handles being a daddy. I kept the fry separated from the parents before. I felt bad because Sunset died a day after I took her from the babies, and I don't know if it was the rigors of birth or being away from the babies.


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## AccaliaJay

So I don't know how but apparently I now have a leaking 10 gallon. So now I gotta rush to get all my guppies back out and fish out as much water as I can and completely rethink how I'm gonna fit all my fish into two 5 gallons. I may have to convince my mom to let me start cheaply selling/giving away guppy fry. Cause theres no way I can afford or talk my parents into getting me a new 10 or 20 gallon tank after just recently getting a laptop. I was wondering why so many bubbles are building up around the top of the tank. I was thinking maybe it was because I broke its cycle or the filter got cleaned good enough x.x


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## Sadist

Oh man! I don't know much about it, but I've read about people using aquarium-safe silicon to repair leaks. I think it has to start as a dry tank, get the silicon stuff on there, cure/set/dry for a long time, and then test it for leaks. It would be cheaper than a new tank except during the gallon/dollar sales.


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## Autumncrossing

Aquarium safe silicon works great  but make sure you don't skimp and definitely get the kind that's safe for fish! I found some on eBay for a good price .


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## AccaliaJay

Well I'm gonna start giving away guppies. If I can't get rid of all of them atleast if I thin out the count so theres not freaking 50 in a five gallon it should make it easier until I can figure out where its leaking and if I can ask my dad to fix it for me so I don't have to be down to two 5's forever. If I do end up getting rid of all my guppies I think I'll just get another betta or maybe 3 African dwarf frogs or something that can survive in a 5. I'm so depressed now x.x


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## AccaliaJay

And why did it have to be today of all days when I have to organize the laundry area? The laundry area will take hours and it needs to be done by morning before my sisters nurses and people come out. And I need to try to hurry and drain the tank so its not rotting away my wood entertainment stand x.x Worst timing x.x


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## Sadist

All emergencies are bad timing, I've found.


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## AccaliaJay

Terrible timing XD I managed to do a poor quick job on the laundry area. Now all that's left is to start washing it all. But its hot and I need a break infront of my fan. Itll probably just pile back up anyways. My mom still hasn't folded a basket from two weeks ago. Go figure. Anyways after I cool down I'll start vacuuming out the water. Then I'll probably vacuum the 5 gallon and try to switch out the gravel with all the creatures in there. I might scream if a ghost shrimp comes jumping out at me though XD This will not be easy. After I make it all pretty take a picture so my mom can show people the guppy fry and I can post on our local pet group. Since its only the fry I'm probably gonna give away I'll do it for free since some fry die for almost like no reason. Plus they have to bring their own transporting containers and pick up since my mom is to lazy to drive anywhere. And I notice only three side of the tank are leaking water which makes me wonder if this house is on a slant or if the leak is in the right front corner and just building up underneath.


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## Sadist

It could be a corner or one line of old silicon or something.


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## Sadist

Well, if I haven't added wrong, than Friday would be our 4 week anniversary of bringing Princess home and her due date. I cooked up a scrap of romaine lettuce (a darker part), and the guppies have been picking at it. I don't give them enough veggies with the betta in there.


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## Sadist

And some aquabid browsing that I really didn't have time to do but fit in during coffee break. AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1469719810 - ***Red-BF***DT-Male*** - Ends: Thu Jul 28 2016 - 10:30:10 AM CDT double tail male with clicky video. Sexy colors!

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1469729400 - DB003 (Male) - Red Heart By Thanont Betta - Ends: Thu Jul 28 2016 - 01:10:00 PM CDT pk double tail. I've found that their bodies usually look funny with a smushy head, but this one is nice. Seller lists it as a red heart. <3

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1469968202 - Ninja Double Tail - Ends: Sun Jul 31 2016 - 07:30:02 AM CDT "Ninja" hehe.

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1470018002 - +++Blue red and black-DT-Male+++ - Ends: Sun Jul 31 2016 - 09:20:02 PM CDT I love this one's coloring, but it looks somewhat like he's trying to grow some diamond eye problems.


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## Sadist

Big news for Brynlee! She was discharged from in patient rehab and got to come home! There are some complications with some disability things that didn't get ordered when they were supposed to, so bathing and other bathroom things will be difficult until those things get shipped. They're super excited to go home and see the rest of their family, though. Big brother and Daddy have been here in TN while Brynlee and her mom stayed at the hospital.


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## ShadeSlayer

Arg Sadist my endlers brought in ich and now one of my corys has a red spot and everything is falling apart how do I treat ich I’m panicking I can’t lose Sam it’ll devastate me!!


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## Autumncrossing

I've heard for ich you can raise the temperature to 86 and then add some aquarium salts. That's probably the most natural way to take care of it, there's medications you could probably dose on top of that if it's pretty bad. I'm using paraguard for my guys right now and they seem to be handling it okay, although I'm not treating for ich it's supposed to take care of most parasites.


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## ShadeSlayer

Autumncrossing said:


> I've heard for ich you can raise the temperature to 86 and then add some aquarium salts. That's probably the most natural way to take care of it, there's medications you could probably dose on top of that if it's pretty bad. I'm using paraguard for my guys right now and they seem to be handling it okay, although I'm not treating for ich it's supposed to take care of most parasites.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Paraguard for ich? Is it okay for corydoras?


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## Sadist

Paraguard is okay for otos, which I think have the same skin as cories. I use half dose for the tank with guppies. Along with the paraguard and high temps, gotta vacuum up the tank really well to get all the fallen parasites gone. Cories might not like salt; I know it's a big no no for otos (at least long term).


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## BettaSplendid

Best to look up each different kind of fish you have and see ich suggestions. I wonder if cories can handle high temps? It is great for bettas as an ich remedy...

So awesome Brynlee gets to come home! Can't imagine what it must be like for a little girl her age.


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## ShadeSlayer

Thanks guys!! I really appreciate it. I think the worst endler looks better after some salt. I’ll keep you updated. Going for Paraguard and Prime soon.

Great on Brylee! She must be so excited!! Such an inspiration!


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## themamaj

Great news on Brynlee! Just catching up but love picture of Cornelius and Princess swimming side by side. How much longer till projected delivery?


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## Sadist

I can't find the receipt, but I thought I bought her July 1. That would make today the due date. She's been having a little bit of constipation (funny seeing her poo from the leaf, same color coming out!), but she doesn't look quite big enough for today to be her due date. She's been really grumpy the past few days, so we'll see. Maybe Cornelius didn't realize she was a girl for a few days and was just happy for company. She seems less grumpy right now than yesterday. Yesterday, she was charging Cornelius every time he approached (keeping him away from the lettuce).


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## ShadeSlayer

Poor cornelius. Girls.


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## AccaliaJay

Great news on Brynlee  And I bet Cornelius will be glad she finally has those babies XD 

Do any of you happen to know if guppies or ghost shrimp eat Banana plant leaves? After adding my two live plants to my five gallon I noticed all around the leaves have been chewed on and now one of them has holes through the whole leaf. However their not touching the Anubis. The guppies kept attacking my hand when I was trying to scoop out blue gravel so I eventually gave up because of low patience. Is it okay for the Anubis to float for a little while until I can switch out gravel?


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## ShadeSlayer

Probably fine for the anubis to float, but you got me on the bannana plant. fish are weird.


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## AccaliaJay

I wonder if their trying to eat algae and stuff off or whatever and their just tearing the leafs? I like how the Anubis floats though XD its like not at the top but just below the top enough for fish to swim over the leafs.


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## ShadeSlayer

Guppy grass is really nice for guppies and bettas. My betta seems to like it more than the guppies sometimes. I’m sure it’d be great for fry. If the endlers make it out all right Luc’s tank has some for potential fry.  @Sadist do you have a HOB filter? If so, wouldn’t the intake suck up fry?


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## Sadist

I have the prefilter sponge thing on the hob intake. I'm sure the guppies are snacking on the plants. My soft leaf plants all get bite marks, and I see the guppies nipping at them. I found that a piece of partially cooked leafy green in the tank will have them nip that instead of the plants. I used romaine lettuce (the darkest green part), but I'm sure any dark leafy green will due.


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## AccaliaJay

One leaf is gone today the other isn't as bad as the other was. They still have yet to touch my Anubis.


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## Sadist

I think the anubias is too thick for them to nip off accidentally. Any leafy food you have on hand, if you just put some on a plate with a tiny bit of water, you can microwave it until it's half cooked and drop it in the tank. Our microwave has a 30 second button, so I just do 30 second increments and flip the leaf over so it gets water on both sides. 1-2 minutes total is enough for most things. I let it cool down to room temperature before I put it in the tank. Mine's floating right now, but I recalled that the other leaf sank after 30 minutes or so of the guppies nipping at it. It'll save the plants. Plus, you get all the rest of the leafy thing for yourself (our whole family hates veggies, but maybe you can convince your grocery buyer to buy some lettuce of some sort on the pretense of healthy eating for yourself). I've read that iceburg lettuce has too much water in it and not enough vitamins, but romaine is okay. It doesn't taste too much stronger than iceburg, and you can rip the darker green part off and feed to the guppy tank.

I bought some kale and cooked up a piece for the guppies. Princess is nipping at it constantly. Our family isn't big on veggies, so I've never tried it. It's super dark, though, so I'm sure the only way it'll taste good is to make chips out of it. Coat in olive oil, sprinkle on salt and pepper (and any other spices you like) and bake at 400F until it's crispy. I use too much oil, and it worked okay that way with spinach. You just have to remember to check on it so it doesn't burn.


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## AccaliaJay

My parents only get iceberg lettuce. Any other stuff they might like?


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## Sadist

I recall mine liked peas. Unlike bettas, guppies can eat peas without risking bowel ruptures and all that. Gotta cut the pea pieces really small. They might like some of the other veggy things like zuccini or cucumbers, too. They just have to be cooked enough for them to eat some but not so cooked it will turn to mush and foul the tank.

And miraculously, Sky seems to have fought off her swim bladder problem. I guess it was some sort of infection. Her ovary bump is still huge, but she seems to be swimming normally! I'm glad I didn't give up on her.


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## BettaSplendid

Yay, Sky!


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## AccaliaJay

Sadist you lost a assassin snail before right? How can you tell if it's dead? I managed to get up and start taking out gravel from the 5gal and I noticed mine was upside down. I can't really smell anything but I had him in a cup of water for about a half hour while I netted out gravel and he hasn't come out. I'm getting a bit worried. I managed to get this picture. I see something In there but I don't know if that means he's dead or alive 0.0


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## ShadeSlayer

@AccaliaJay not sure but mine are usually out and about, even in my hand. How big was yours to begin with?


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## Sadist

Mine was dead -- hadn't moved for days, and when I took it out, it was being eaten by live food. The good news is they are susceptible to bleach, ie the dead body disintegrates really quickly in bleach and cleans the shell nicely. I think after the not moving for several days, the body kinda hung out limply for a bit, too. It had just regrown some parts that Sky bit off but maybe starved to death before it could get those parts big enough to find food. She'd bitten off the hunt-for-food bits that stick way out. It might be nice to keep it quarantined to see if it dies or not. A small container with a hide would probably be enough. Make sure it's bleachable! The smell is really bad, though. My daughter picked up a dead snail at the lake, and we washed her hands 10 times and still couldn't get the smell off. 

Princess is still big but not ready for birth big. I found the receipt again, and it does say July 1, 2016 at 10:48 am. I'm not sure if he didn't realize she's a girl, if she's holding them in because he doesn't have anyone else to keep him busy while she gives birth, or what. Well, she's pretty big. She's chasing him away again, so maybe she's looking for a hiding spot to give birth. Whatever fry survive Blackiechat and Tigress Jr should be nice and tough and good hiders.

We did a different camp this week -- the Aquarium! It was a bit pricey since we aren't members. I think it's worth it, though. She got to do the petting pool and watch those animals get fed yesterday. They got to eat outside in a butterfly garden, too. I hope they get to go to the rooftop butterfly garden sometime this week. The butterflies in there are really tame. She could spend an hour just holding butterflies. I remember last time we went, she picked up a butterfly (by scooping it from underneath) while it was eating, so its proboscis was probing her hand. I laughingly said it was trying to eat her, and she didn't like that.


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## AccaliaJay

I haven't seen any movement x.x I'll wait a few more days he's still in the cup


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## Sadist

Good luck! Poor thing. I've had the worst luck with snails that I actually want to live in the tanks. If I clean it well enough for them to not have a food source, they eat my plants instead.


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## AccaliaJay

It's sad I liked him alot


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## Sadist

One of the fish groups on facebook is having a constest, so I took pictures of the tanks. I think RusseltheShihzu is the judge. I entered Mrs. Fish's tank in the contest because the plants are the thickest  I had to take a side view of hers because of the glare and reflection of the desk. Poor TS has a load of algae I need to scrub off the wall.

The order of pictures is 10 gallon, Mrs. Fish (she wasn't in the picture), Sky, and Tequila Sunrise (TS). That's how he rests.


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## AccaliaJay

They look so pretty


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## Sadist

TS is one of the most gorgeous fish I've seen. His fins look like flames when he dances around. I should have named him Fire Dancer.


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## AccaliaJay

XD call him TS the little fire dancer


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## BettaSplendid

Veil tails are great dancers! Like flamenco. This lady is _almost_ as good a dancer as Twinkie was when he would dance for Daughter. 









.... I miss Twinkie. Tequila does look like a Fire Dancer too. 

I love the idea of the aquarium camp. That sounds soooo fun. I giggled at the story of the butterfly on your daughter's hand. I can just imagine the look she gave you.


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## Sadist

Today, they went to a nature center of some sort. The bigger kids went hiking. The smaller ones (her age) caught wild water animals and put them in a bucket to study. She said there a bunch of things that looked like under water spiders (but without pincers, so I'm not sure if they were crayfish or what), some fish, and one tadpole. She fell into a "booby trap," so her clothes were soaking wet and muddy. They play in a fake creek right before pick up, but I expected dry clothes and didn't have anything for her to wear after swim lessons afterwards. I'm really glad I got her into a week of the aquarium camp. In the future, we may get a membership to make it cheaper and go visit the butterflies a few times a year.


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## AccaliaJay

Finally finished my guppy tank. I'm to exhausted to add more water tonight. Cloudiness needs to settle over night to


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## Sadist

Those are nice snails! I hope they come out to play a lot. I'm surprised the guppies haven't eaten all the feelers off. Mine nip at the plants constantly.

I found some "stir fry cut" meat the other day that's cut as thin as bacon. It's beef but looks like a pack of bacon. I'm excited to try it tonight. I think I'll fry it up like bacon, then sautee up the veggies, then add the meat again to heat through. Yay, fajitas! We've been eating turkey all week because it's half the price of pork, chicken, and beef. I'm sure everyone will like a break. With the right spices (and cooking methods), the turkey tastes just like chicken.

Jr has the habit of marching out and nabbing food during feeding time. I guess I missed out on really taming her; I've read about other people hand feeding their CPO's. Mine gets a rain of food or scavenge food that the fish missed.


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## AccaliaJay

Their my nerites XD its rare I don't see them. And yeah the fish have left the banana plant alone after tearing 1 leaf off. Good news though I get to downsize the fry count. 2 people are interested and 1 should be coming today. She said she has a 50 gallon. I'm thinking fifteen fry. Cause they'll just breed like crazy later. Now the fun part. Trying to figure out which will be males and females to try not giving her more males than females.


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## Sadist

At around 4 weeks old, you can tell. The males will have some iridescence that covers up the line between top and bottom. The females will have a line there (kind of around the organs or something). I'll see if I can find the video I learned from. It's a bit difficult, but eventually, you'll notice the line thing.





 Here's the video. This breeder separates the fry at the 4 week stage so they don't breed early. He does show where that line thing I was typing about is at least.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah I know but but sometimes they get blended together after I tell so many. And I'm not liking this women x.x She says she wants about 30. If she has a 50 gallon that's not gonna give her a whole lot of breeding space and then they'll cross breed and then shell have to get rid of extras or let her tank be over run like crazy. So do I obey her wishes and let her stupid carelessness get overloaded with possible deformities or do I follow what I feel is right...

Plus who knows if she let her tank cycle yet. Adding that many will cause huge problems.


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## AccaliaJay

So I followed what felt right 2 breeding adults, 6 juvenile/adults that should be breeding soon and 9 babies


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## ShadeSlayer

@AccaliaJay good plan


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## AccaliaJay

Save her from disaster lol


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## Sadist

I gave all the tanks new IAL. Mrs. Fish was resting on hers at dinner time, so I dropped dinner on her. It was nice for her to nip everything up from the leaf instead of chasing it all around. Or maybe she likes to chase it. It was blood worm again, so everyone was excited for dinner (had community formula for breakfast).


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## Sadist

I looked in the tank after dark. Ottos darting around constantly. I thought Princess was in labor, but apparently, she was just annoyed at the otto wake up. I really went to see all her babies soon  Maybe it's a good thing she's late; I'd like to get a couple really deep cleans on the tank first.

I gave them some zucchini yesterday, and everyone loved it. Snails were really having a good time on it, Jr was guarding one, guppies were eating the other. Blackichat decided to guard one ring from the guppies for a while, but he got bored and moved away and let them eat in peace. They enjoyed their community formula for breakfast.


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## AccaliaJay

I know what you mean Sadist. The breeding pair I gave my brothers girlfriend finally had some babies. She said theres 3 that she sees.


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## Sadist

Back to the question on MammaJ's journal about if we had a 150 gallon tank, one of the options for me would be https://aquaticarts.com/products/panther-crab these crabs with a few schools of small fish (guppies, danios, etc) on the top. I love the coloring on the electric blue crayfish this site sells, but they warn the crayfish will eat all the plants. I have a hard time imagining an aquarium at my house without live plants these days.


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## BettaSplendid

There are cute little blue CPOs. I actually like the orange more though. I have been thinking about the 150 gallons too, LOL. and the stingrays. Can I just have an indoor pond with waterfall and put stingrays in that? Hehe. Now I need a new house designed around the theoretical pond. While I am at it, I want one of those bathrooms that looks like a cave and the shower has moss and rock ledges. I am like one of those "if you gave a mouse a cookie" books. "If you gave Splendid 150 gallons to work with... She would ask if she could make a pond instead. And then she would want the pond inside her house... And then if she had a pond inside her house she would want a..."


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## Sadist

Oh, I've seen set ups where they have an indoor pond instead of a coffee table. The closed LFS actually had a small one set up by the door with pothos growing out of the side and everything. We don't have a coffee table....

How about this one? Think I could convince hubby to change living room or computer room to this?


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## AccaliaJay

I couldn't imagine taking care of a tank that size. I think a 50 would be my limit. I finally got all the guppies and ghost shrimp into the 30.


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## Sadist

A siphon would be difficult to get up, but then adding new water, could use one easily and have more sensitive pets in there!


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Oh, I've seen set ups where they have an indoor pond instead of a coffee table. The closed LFS actually had a small one set up by the door with pothos growing out of the side and everything. We don't have a coffee table....
> 
> How about this one? Think I could convince hubby to change living room or computer room to this?


Now that would be a Great room!!


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## Sadist

Daughter's princess fort from Grandpa is where I'd put the pond. I guess part of it depends on if the crawlway is under this room, too. Probably can't do a big tank or small pond over that area -- just walking in certain parts of the house makes things shake like an earthquake. We should have gotten the older house, but we didn't want to deal with older house issues and animals moving in (backyard a steep, wooded area like Grandma's old place that always had something going wrong with it -- woodpeckers, racoons, etc, plus a windy, steep road that I imagined teenagers learning to drive on having problems). Oh, but a computer room with a pool like that, I could have all sorts of goodies! Probably mostly pothos vines, maybe install some trellises to give them somewhere to go. I love the idea of having all those shower caddy things stuck to the side for plants but invisible to viewer.


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## Sadist

Dentist check up for daughter and I went really well! She's almost ready to have her back teeth sealed. She has three loose front teeth, and they think the gap between her top teeth will push together as more adult teeth grow in. We both got mint toothpaste for the polishing. Daughter wanted to celebrate with an ice cream sandwich when we got home  Instead, she's having some blue corn chips and watching Kung Fu Panda 3 for the 273rd time. I'm ruining my teeth with morning coffee.

Since Princess is dark, I can't tell if her gravid spot is getting darker/bigger with her pregnancy or not. I'm beginning to think she had her babies, and they're all hiding in the plants. She's been really cheerful and happy to be around Cornelius instead of all grumpus.


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## AccaliaJay

So I've concluded my assassin is dead. And I also counted my guppies. I have 66 guppies XD Another person messaged me wanting some so I think I'll give her about 30-40 she said she has a 75 gallon from when she had a gold fish and her daughter wants fish again. I might just keep about 10 guppies maybe less. Theres a male that's turning out to have a yellowish orange tail with black spots like my female who has a orange tail with black spots. XD and I've also been thinking about trying a different type of fish. I just don't know what I should try. I still want some either Cory's or Oto's but I have snails and ghost shrimp for clean up so I don't think its a good idea unless I get rid of some. So anyone know fish I can look into while I await to cut my guppy count down. I'll probably need a few options cause they will probably be from meijers and who knows what they have there and when I can go. So until then I'll be earning money and researching XD Might even get another betta after I move Liberty to the other five. Or use that for a quarantine or hospital tank.


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## Sadist

I dunno. 10 guppies can easily turn back into 66 in no time at all.


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## AccaliaJay

might be less I really only like 3 of them so that may be all I keep also bad news my phone wont turn on x.x I'm on my last idea charging it with my dads truck if that doesn't work then I give up we tried everything. And if they have more ill just give more away. I just don't want to give them my two adult females when their so old that they might not make it. So I think ill keep the two adult females and the one male I mentioned.


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## Sadist

Good luck! Bad news with the phone. Does it have a back up wire you can try? I'm just wondering if it's a busted cord or something in the phone itself. I once bought a whole computer thinking one had broken, only to have it turn out to be a busted cord (the one that plugs into the wall). Awkward trying to repack the new computer to return it.


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## themamaj

I wonder how soon she will deliver? Glad Princess and Cornelius get along so well.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Oh, I've seen set ups where they have an indoor pond instead of a coffee table. The closed LFS actually had a small one set up by the door with pothos growing out of the side and everything. We don't have a coffee table....
> 
> How about this one? Think I could convince hubby to change living room or computer room to this?



I would go for it! That is gorgeous. It reminds me of a Roman house with the sitting area with pool. Who needs a tv when you have a pond inside. And do I spy koi?


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## Sadist

I would probably have bettas instead of koi


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## AccaliaJay

I've had that phone for a while. It just wont turn on, wont show the dead battery sign or even the sign when its charging anymore. I even tried charging it with a different charger. It sucks because my dad wont let me get another.


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## Sadist

Pictures! Poor TS, I have really let the wall algae get bad in his tank. You can see an idea of his beauty behind it somewhere  Once again, I apologize for the bad reflections and poor quality photos.


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## BettaSplendid

Aaaaw, so pretty! TS really has some long fins. He doesn't fin bite at all, does he? I continue to be impressed by Blackiechat 's laid back personality. Live amd let live. Guppies look adorable.


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## Sadist

I'm impressed with TS's fins, too. He took a few nips out of them when he could see Sky, so I taped up some paper to the side. His fins look like fire when he dances. Blackiechat does vigorously hunt the gammarus shrimp in the tank, but he leaves the guppies alone. It's funny, his dorsal goes up like a dog perking his ears.


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## BettaSplendid

He shows discretion since the gammarrus shrimp are live food, afterall. Right? You intended them to be eaten?


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## Sadist

Yes, I do. I wasn't able to keep a separate colony of them alive, but the hitch hikers from some java moss are still alive in the 10 gallon. They seem to hide in the gravel and the salvinia. They clean up extra food really well, too. Funny to watch a slice of vegetable moving around and see it's tiny, betta bite sized shrimps making it do so!


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## fernielou

I know a guy who has an aquarium built into his wall that looks to be 6 feet tall, 4 feet wide. They climb a ladder to do stuff in the tank. The home belonged originally to a MLB legend. He only Keeps 3-4 cichlids in it because he says it keeps down his maintenance 


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## Sadist

A dream tank for me <3


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## themamaj

Me too! But it would have more than 3 cichlids in it


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## fernielou

I know. Such restraint!


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## fernielou

so i went to their house today for a birthday party and the tank is WAY smaller than I remember...it's 100 gallons built into the wall. Still bigger than anything I will ever have...and yeah, still just 3 cichlids LOL

funny because when I went I had a 10 gallon and thought that was "big" so theirs obviously looked friggin HUGE!


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## Sadist

I think 100 gallons is still around 6 feet long. Close to that.


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## Sadist

Primcess's gravid spot looks light (like a brownish instead of black) to me. I'm beginning to think I somehow found an infertile guppy :-D She's still big, and she swims with Cornelius all day. Or maybe he hasn't performed. I just assumed it happened.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh no, hahahaha. An infertile guppy. Actually, that might not be such a bad thing, really. Cornelius is happy and you don't have to deal with the trauma of guppy birth and then all the babies. That said, she will give birth to 50 tomorrow.


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## Sadist

Haha! Well, she's 3.5 weeks overdue. I have Blackiechat in there for crowd control. He likes squished snails. I feel bad if he doesn't see them right away, though. I'll see it crawling around :-/


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## AccaliaJay

I to am just waiting for my females to pop again XD I keep looking over to expect seeing fry swimming around. If Liberty wasn't acting weird I would consider putting him in with them hopefully he would do crowd control to however. I'm not sure what to do right now to help my poor boy feel better. My dad said he bought me a droid however hes not sure if hes gonna give it to me. And my mom was in a bad mood today so I didn't ask to use her phone. Hes behind the filter and heater again. I'm wondering if I should turn the filter off since hes swimming funny.


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## Sadist

What, did you leave a dish in the sink or something? Funny how parents get mad at the silliest things. I can't wait for my kid to be a teen so I can get mad if she forgets to wash the pan or adds too much salt when she cooks dinner.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> What, did you leave a dish in the sink or something? Funny how parents get mad at the silliest things. I can't wait for my kid to be a teen so I can get mad if she forgets to wash the pan or adds too much salt when she cooks dinner.


*giggle*

Teen years mixed with moms-and-menopause. That was a scary time. Somehow I made it through alive.


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## AccaliaJay

No I didn't do much chores while they were gone. My brother only finished his though because his girlfriend helped him.


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## Sadist

I had a dream that my fish got mixed together in their tanks and made babies. I think it's from BettaSplendid's Lady Red jumping the border.


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> I had a dream that my fish got mixed together in their tanks and made babies. I think it's from BettaSplendid's Lady Red jumping the border.


Jumping the border. LoL! Tequila Sky babies and Blackiechat Fish babies? Or guppy bettas..? :surprise:


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## Sadist

The female went back and forth from being Mrs. Fish and Sky (both being blue crowntails), and the boy was Blackiechat. I think the tanks are reasonably far enough apart that no one can jump into another one.

We saw some butterfly eggs on a support beam at the playground today and some giant caterpillars, too. The butterfly eggs reminded me of my dream with the bubble nest. They were far enough along to have a dot in the middle.


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## AccaliaJay

Its back!!! *hides under a rock* theres over 10 fry already!!!


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## Sadist

Awesome! Maybe mine had some, and Blackiechat hunted and ate them all. The filter has a sponge over the intake, so none of them should be in there. I just assumed she never had any since there aren't any visible.


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## AccaliaJay

Okay so Liberty is still looking roundish. He came to greet me when I walked over which isn't very normal for him 90% of the time he doesn't care until I drop food in. Ever since my mom and I switched filters her tank stays a lot clearer. And all I really have to do is stir up the gravel and the filter does a lot of the work XD Theres still spots where poo builds up but whenever the big guy gets spooked he stirs it up to. And finally I think my female had 10-20 fry. However for some odd reason my tank looks cloudy x.x Anyways if my mom ever goes to meijers I think I'll get a few more male guppies then I think I'll separate the males from females. Its either that or wait until I can sex the fry but that's so far away and by then there will be more fry. I took pictures


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## AccaliaJay

I don't think I have to explain these pics do I lol


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## Sadist

The fry are so cute! Those big eyes. Liberty does look a bit round. Hopefully, he'll poop and get better on his own.


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## AccaliaJay

When I noticed he looked round the first two thoughts I had was dropsy or swim bladder but his scales are not raised like when I look closely his stomach looks kinda brownish from being round. I think when I notice it he was pooping. It was kinda stringy and it had some white to it. Other than that it was close to the pinkish brown color that his flake food is. Could it be constipation or parasites making him round?


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## Sadist

White, stringy poo could be parasites. I'm not sure the normal paraguard does anything for internal parasites, but garlic in the food is supposed to help them fight them out naturally. There are medicated foods for internal parasites, but I don't recall the brand off the top of my head. Maybe Jungle?


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## AccaliaJay

I didn't know fish could have garlic XD that's weird so if the food has garlic it should help right? Is it just for Bettas?


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## AccaliaJay

I'm kind worried about the way this women is taking care of the fish and ghost shrimp I gave her. I could have swore I read something about having the tank at warm temps for to long causes problems. She says her tank stays at around 82-84 and she feeds them like every 12 hours and shes giving the ghost shrimp algae disks. She says the ghost shrimp are eating the fry. I have never caught them eating live fry. I'm wondering if their hungry cause they don't get to pick enough from the algae disks.


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## themamaj

How is school going? Hope daughter got a good teacher. 

How are the guppies doing?


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## Sadist

Soaking betta food in garlic juice can work in a pinch. I think New Life Spectrum brand has garlic in the food. There's also some sort of garlic guard you can put their food on if you don't buy raw garlic for yourself. Here it is on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-ASM1...id=1472559173&sr=1-1&keywords=aquarium+garlic Apparently, you can put that stuff into the water or soak the food in it.

Mrs. Fish is peaking at me from her plants, how cute! We finished off yesterday's bloodworms, so she's still hunting around while she isn't staring at me. She's almost friendly sometimes.

Princess is charging Cornelius and pigging out on food, what I think of as some pregnancy symptoms. That's what I get when only the dark female survives--I can't read hear gravid spot to see! There are plenty of hiding spot for fry, but I never see the ones in the store actually hiding well. I guess Blackiechat and Tigress Jr are big and scary to fry. 

Tigress just grabbed the algae wafer with her claws and dragged it into an open spot. Good for her; it fell in between the tank wall and a rock. Now, when she's done, the ottos can have a turn!


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## Sadist

Wow, missed the top of this page! 

Daughter likes her teacher, and she seems really nice to me, too. She got into a private school, so only 13 kids in her class. Lots of teacher time with individuals, and this school also does P.E. every day. They really need all that physical activity.

I dunno what to say about the woman and how she's treating the fish. That does seem a bit warm for guppies; mine do really well at 76-78 max. I thought ghost shrimp did better at this temperature range, too. I've read about ghost shrimp catching fry, but mine never did that. I did have one of the shrimp hang from floating plants and grab fry food at feeding time.


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## themamaj

Wow only 13 kids in a class is awesome! Glad you like teacher. I hope she has a great year!

I am rooting for Princess to have fry. I have to live out my guppies through you  Glad to hear about your cray. I miss having them. So fun to watch them storm out of hides with claws in the air. Shudder so scary haha. Always enjoy reading updates on your fish. Lol Mrs Fish *almost *friendly. She has to keep up her reputation! Love her.


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## Sadist

The fatter Mrs. Fish gets, the less aggressive she is towards me. She's still biting her extended rays off while plotting the guppies' demises.

I had to feed pellets today. Blackiechat still by feeding area looking for more to drop in. The guppies dart around and get a bunch as they fall, he gets one or two. Then, they all hunt the plants and gravel, and Tigress charges forward to get her share. The ottos quietly hide and blend in to the striped rocks, but they seem really active at night the few times I look in after dark.


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## BettaSplendid

Is Mrs. Fish fat with eggs? Stormy has been HUGE for weeks now, yet continues to act normally. Maybe it is a summer thing in response to more daylight hours. I hope it is just eggs anyways. It looks so uncomfortable. 

Congrats on the school for your daughter! That sounds great! PE everyday... All schools should do that, especially for the young ones?


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish does have a big belly, and it never seems to go away, but now she's fat sideways, too. She seems nicer now or at least doesn't flare at me and try to attack me when I'm doing stuff in her tank.

I agree, P.E. should be every day for little kids. The public school she went to for kindergarten had it 1-2 times a week.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> I don't think I have to explain these pics do I lol


THOSE ADORABLE FRY I love dem so much. Who knew fish are so adorable?


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## Sadist

Right? I was originally going to use extra guppy fry as clean live food for the bettas, but they're so cute with their big eyes.

Finally remembered to thaw some food out. Yay for frozen foods! I did the one that's the same as pellets but without the wheat filler. It's messy, so it's a good thing those pest snails are there to clean up the sand in the sanded tanks.

Sky seems to have more problems getting eggy than Mrs. Fish does, now. Maybe Mrs. Fish is past her prime. I think I've had her for 1.5 years now. My longest survivor ever! 

Cornelius is 9-10 months old, now, too. Strongest of his litter!

I was thinking back on our first fish and all of the mistakes I made with him and the cycle and such. He was a Walmart boy, and I accidentally brought home the blue one instead of the purple one that the daughter picked out. It was hard to see the difference with the store lights. Anyway, I thought you had to change the filter cartridge every month. The LFS said to do 25% water changes 1/month, too. Violet always got a rash on his head when that time was coming up, and now I think that "rash" could have been ammonia burns. It always cleared up after the water change, and it stopped happening when I started doing 1/week changes instead of 1/month. Then, the freeze dried bloodworm + aqueon food problem combined to make him sick. He was making a come back, then got sick again, dropsy, and died. Now that I know more about aquariums, I feel really awful about what I put poor Violet through. At the time, I thought I was doing great because I got a nice 10 gallon, heated and filtered home for him!


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## BettaSplendid

Wow, and you were following THE instructions of the "experts" on how to take care of your betta. That is even the food they recommended to me at Petsmart. Except they say bettas need a quart of water, anymore makes them "uncomfortable".


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## Sadist

I remember the same LFS, different employee, said to get him a girlfriend, too. Thankfully, I already knew better.


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## themamaj

I think we all have learned alot along the way in our betta journeys. Poor Leo started in a half gallon. Thankfully she is still kicking 1.5 years later but much better home now.


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## AccaliaJay

When it comes to fish care it's better to google in my opinion. I mean if it's about plants or decorations there's not a huge penalty for listening unless you buy hundred of plants that arnt suited for your lights. However one little wrong spot in information can have a huge penalty that could cause your fish to die. So I say a few opinions are better than one.


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## astrummortis

We took the advice of a hydroponics tank that said you don't have to cycle it or clean the tank more than 1x a month, and killed our first baby girl. My forgiveness of that tank and my ignorance is naught. I tortured a baby creature that was totally dependent on me for 3 weeks until she died of it. I just can't even.


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## BettaSplendid

You should write a negative review of that tank on every site you can find. I am appalled at the good reviews that tiny "tanks" get. People must be reviewing them soon after setting them up. I see little betta "tanks" on Craigslist sans betta with the same sad story over and over, "betta died 3 weeks after getting him, but here is his awesome setup! Complete with gravel and Tetramin Betta Flakes! I paid over $40 for all this, but asking $20, make an offer." And you too can have a languishing betta, I would add.


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## themamaj

I cringe ever time see a betta cube and fish leaving store. Breaks my heart! Of course one of lps kills me with display of tiny bowls like see at dollar store not any bigger than a cup. Beautiful metalic plakat in one other day. Looked so sad. Went back few days later to get a carbon cartridge and he was dead on shelf  Wish I had taken him home a week ago.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh, that is so sad. I noticed the lps really push the tiny glass bowls. They will often do "specials" betta plus bowl and microscopic amount of gravel for like... $15 or so? They must make a lot of profit. Sadly, Fintastic does this. And the other lps even stocks and pushes champagne glasses! They are very tiny! I saw a womam buying 5 bettas at once there. She must have them in little bowls all over her house as decoration and just _replace_ them as needed. Store doesn't care or ask or offer advice, just glad to sell 5 fish.


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## themamaj

How could you even turn around in a champagne glass? Poor fish!! 

Funny though how when your love for bettas grow so does your tank size.


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## Sadist

After a long weekend of pellets, they finally got some bloodworms today! They were impressed and are still hunting the floor. Tigress jr is making a show of hunting for her share and impeding that tank's hunt a little. She must have found a worm; the guppies and Blackiechat are all staring at her.

I have some sort of yucky bug bite behind my knee. I felt a little prick last night while watching tv and kept trying to adjust my knee off what I thought was a little splinter or something in the cushion. After a few minutes, the prick got really insistent, and by the time we went to bed, I had some mosquito-bite looking things back there. They burned and burned and kept me awake for a bit even with cortizone. Today, they don't look too bad, but now I wonder what was on the cushion biting me over and over.

We went swimming yesterday, and daughter saved 4 live moths and several dead ones and a dead wasp from the pool. I'm proud of her for taking an active approach to helping nature, even if it's saving bugs from a pool or worm from the road after it rains (we were almost late several days last year since she wanted to save all the worms on the road walking to school; this year, we drive, so we won't get to do that so much).

Guppies and Sky are still hunting for more worms, hehe. TS begging for more and keeps looking up at the food hole I cleared in the salvinia this morning.


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## ShadeSlayer

Any guppy fry yet?


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## Sadist

I don't see any fry. That doesn't mean they aren't there, just that I managed to make enough hiding spots that I can't see them. I recall, even when I used the breeder box, I had twice as many in that box (which I put java moss in so they would feel secure) than I thought there were. This time, I'm just letting things happen. I think the gravid spot might be darker, and there is some chasing going on between the guppies today.


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## AccaliaJay

They shall eventually appear XD


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## Sadist

I swear, it seems like all of a sudden, I will see new, fully-grown guppies and never see the fry! I wish Blackiechat kept such a close cull on the extra snails.


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## MysticSky22301

Mine do that too lol! Half grown juvenile guppies popping up the few babies I spot I can't keep track of. My rams horn snails seem to magically appear too -_- I started with one then 5 now I can't count them


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## Sadist

The fish will excitedly eat the pond snails if I squish them first. Otherwise, they might as well be mobile rocks. When I had a ramshorn I only ever saw the one. I did see a clutch of eggs that I got rid of, but I think it was a pond snail transfer clutch rather than a ramshorn.


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## Sadist

Blackiechat has a new perch near the feeding area. I saw him pining for Mrs. Fish or perhaps jealously watching her eat. I'm not sure. Princess has dots and expansion areas on her belly, so I'm guessing there are babies. She's also really pissy with Cornelius, which I take as another sign.


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## Sadist

Everyone still alive and doing well. I noticed a while back that Sky seems to hold an air bubble in her mouth all the time. At first, I thought she had some sort of hook worm. Maybe the air bubble is her way of adapting to the swim bladder issues? Her poop is normal, her weight looks good for the amount of food she eats.

I transferred some of my "only roots in the water" plants to all under the water and moved them to her tank for a while. I can't seem to get rid of the mealy bugs completely (some hide under tank rims, etc, and come back when I think I've finally gotten rid of them). Putting the plants under water for a week seems to kill the mealy bugs without bothering the fish, so I've been doing that. I wonder if they're getting snacks from the bugs or if the bugs are just drowning.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh I bet the fish are eating the bugs! Yum, yum! You never see planaria in a betta tank, hehe.


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## themamaj

Interesting about bubble.


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## Sadist

Blood worm day today! Everyone excited at breakfast. They're always excited for food, but I like to think they like the worms better. I'd like to try those tiny earthworm things that MammaJ tried with her axolotl. Hubby already grossed out about frozen food; I'm not sure living food would go over very well. I got rid of my fruit flies when we had a breakout of fruit flies in the house. The ones in the house had wings, and I think they came from some dirt I bought at Walmart. I had to be safe, though, especially if hubby found jar of living flies on my desk! The salvinia is so thick on most of the tanks that I couldn't really feed them to the fish very well, anyways. Maybe one at a time on my finger if the fish were quick enough to get there before the fly drowned or climbed onto the plants.


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## Sadist

Brynlee's first steps again: https://www.facebook.com/628685088/videos/10157591190090089/


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## AccaliaJay

So my dad was stacking wood and they called me out there. I've returned with 8 Salamanders XD. I'm guessing blue spotted however some of the smaller ones are more brown with red streak down their back I'm guessing because their not adults their like that? Anyone have tips for caring for these lol. I know I got to make sure their dirt and stuff stay moist. I have a spray bottle that I keep misting their tank with. I got the dirt from the same area they came from. You can't see them cause their under the bark. I read they eat worms. I caught a few worms while getting the dirt but they were huge and their probably already buried themselves into the dirt. But I'm not going to be able to do that once winter comes so anyone know of a food I can buy from the store for them.


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## Sadist

I'm not sure! There's a blog on here with salamanders, and they have half water, half land like frog tanks. I would suggest trying to id the species by looking at pictures of local species and going from there! Good luck!


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## AccaliaJay

I believe their called blue spotted salamanders XD I read that they can drown in deep water so I only put a lid of water in there so only the small ones might drown. I'm looking at the finless forum hopefully I'll find something there if not I might post


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## Autumncrossing

There's a Caudata forum if you need info 


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## AccaliaJay

Caudata what now? XD


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## Autumncrossing

Oh uh Caudata means salamanders. It's called Caudata.org I think, there's lots of good info on different species .


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish was very violent with her mysis shrimp this morning. TS and Sky were oblivious; I managed to drop the shrimp behind their line of vision, and they're just now finding the shrimp at the bottom. I saw a gammarus shrimp in TS's tank; I think they're eating up all of his java moss. The moss has really thinned out. I guess I'll have to start feeding the shrimp in there and hope he starts hunting them again. Having the tank half full of that moss kept me from having to clean his tank multiple times a week!


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## Sadist

I had time to nap since I didn't do the store this morning (ugg, why did I do that? I'll have to make time tomorrow!). I had a weird dream about my fish with water change problems and a doctor squeezing open their mouths to check for worms.

Oh, I nice t-storm is starting out there. Almost time to go, probably downpour when it's time to go outside. Good thing I have a dark shirt on! 

Hopefully, kiddo will have had a good day today. 2 Fridays in a row, she had bad days. First one, came home early with fever that didn't go away until Sunday. Next week, she got in trouble for standing up to a bully. She chose a poor method, so I talked with her about better ways. I just hope it hasn't scarred her for life against standing up for herself. She's in super expensive private school, and they don't tolerate misbehavior very well. She is at least still excited to see her female friends at school, just doesn't like the one boy. I hope she didn't scar the boy for life and make bullying better for him, too.


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## themamaj

Yes as Autumncrossing mentioned caudata.org is very good resource. I will mention responses are slower to come sometimes but lots good information on site. I assume they are earthworm eaters. I buy mine at Walmart in fishing supply area. Carry them in a little mini fridge. 

Sadist &#55357;&#56904;oh no fruit flies in the house. My hubby would loose his mind. Glad to hear fish enjoying mysis shrimp and blood worms. Oh course now they will be expecting all this great food every day. Can just see Mrs Fish " give me your bloodworms or else you will see the spikeys come out" hehe. Hope your daughter has better day at school. Exciting about Brynlee!


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## AccaliaJay

Okay so ever since my cats been missing theres been this squirell/chipmunk running around in the house. Facebook has not been helping me. To many cat posts. And its so sad cause I know my parents won't let me get another cat. Even though technically it wasn't my fault we lost her. She was being territorial in the house and peeing on stuff and my parents wanted her outside.. I really wish I could manage to talk my parents into letting me go satisfy my cat loving with a little visit to our homeward bound to see their cats if only to pet a few. But they never go that far out. I still remember this one cat I really wanted before I got Mitzi that was at another shelter. It was a male and I believe his name was Bobbi. He had a cut tail and when I walked by he was reaching through the bars of the cage and tugging on my shirt. But of course my mom seemed impatient so I refused to hold any of them. And I really wish we could have got him but my mom specifically said "No males, no long haired and no ugly cats" I don't exactly remember what he looked like it was like two years ago.. But I just know I remember feeling that tug on my shirt and looking at him reaching through the bars meowing. 

Thanks Autumncrossing and themamaj I've been looking at the site although I haven't exactly found anything based on blue spotted salamanders. But you would think all or most salamanders and newts would eat roughly the same thing. Can I ask what you get worms for themamaj? I would assume a little creature of your own or fishing. We don't have Walmart anywhere nearby. So I'll have ask my family if they know of a place that sells earthworms. Although won't they die off before I feed them all to them? I mean I heard for the bigger ones your supposed to feed them once a week and the smaller ones once a day. I have like 4 largers once and 4 smaller ones. I don't know if my parents would appreciate me putting a tub of worms in the fridge. And they might attract animals outside since its been cooler lately. Ugh the issues... Wish I knew how to create a worm farm XD. Unlimited food supply! I wonder why you can't just dump the worms into the tank and let them burrow down. I mean they would come up right eventually and the salamanders would be almost like living outside. Google is my best friend I guess. Welp I'm gonna go lay down and watch anime. I have to unfortunately clean my room tomorrow or we wont be able to get the wood stove ready for when it gets down in the 30's soon. Con to being the youngest. You get the crappiest room. Specially since I hate being blamed for if the fire goes out at night since I'm in the same room. Thanks for the help guys! And hope your fish are still doing great Sadist! Don't make them to fat now XD


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## MysticSky22301

If you want to do that go to rainbow mealworms and order a tub or 2 of their red worms! I did it for my frog tank to keep it clean ^^ I started with 25 and have HUNDREDS all munching on the fruit and vegetable scraps I leave for his snails. The plants are super green too^^


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## Autumncrossing

Don't think you should feed the salamander a meal worm... Could be wrong but you'll want to stick to night crawlers that's what my guys eat. You have to chop them up into very small pieces so be prepared to get grossed out. I buy a tub of worms at Walmart or a fishing supply store and you put the tub in the fridge to keep them fresh. Perhaps wrap the little tub in a plastic bag and put it somewhere in the back away from food so it doesn't gross out your family? They also like black worms but that's not a good replacement, rather just a snack. You can also feed bloodworms for a snack, it'll be harder to get a terrestrial guy to eat them though. Get some tweezers, pick up a clump and dangle in front of his face. 


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## Sadist

Here's a repost of getting worms ready to feed to fish. He has larger fish, but it's the same basic idea. 



 and the same guy on how to take care of worms indoors: 



 I recall reading somewhere that tap water can hurt worms just like fish, so maybe use old tank water if you grow them in dirt.


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## Sadist

I forgot to share something that happened yesterday! We went out to play in the rain (it's been that sort of dry year, rain's a treat!). I decided to pull some weeds and grass out of the garden while the dirt was wet and saw a little frog! It was cute, but I scared it into hiding before kiddo could come see it. It was brown, so it camouflaged really well in the mud. Then, daughter rode her scooter over to a policeman's house, and he gave her a shell out of their garden. He and his wife are good people, though they have dogs instead of human for their children so far.


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## AccaliaJay

Those are interesting videos. I'll definitely start looking into doing this. Just one thing though. So instead of throwing away bad spots on veggies and stuff I could feed it to the worms instead?


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## Sadist

Yeah, that's like compost. It doesn't smell too great, though, but the worms will eventually turn it all into dirt. I confess I didn't watch the whole worm home (second) video, though the guy did such a good job on the preparing for the fish to eat video that I just posted another of his videos and assumed he knew what he was doing.


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## Sadist

Just saw Princess with some lettuce "No, it's mine!" keep away from Cornelius. Too funny, like little kids. Everyone got community formula frozen stuff this morning. It's mostly Mondays that they get special stuff, after the whole weekend of pellets and some missed meals. 

I did get a different kind of green leafy thing for myself, so I microwaved some for the guppies and ottos. I guess they like it unless Princess had a bite of one of my precious live plants.

I got to eat lunch with the kiddo at school today. I totally lucked out. Wednesdays are chocolate milk days, and Fridays are ice cream days. We got the two combined today since they have early dismissal tomorrow and no school Friday for parent teacher conferences.


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## themamaj

Yes was going to say Sadist found me great videos on worm prep. I feed earthworms to axolotls. I loved in one video he calls worms on top his volunteers. Think of that every time prepare now. I put mine in cup with a little water and snip snip snip with scissors. Goes fast and then rinse till clean. 

I bet frog you found so cute!!! Sounds like sweet neighbor.


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## Sadist

Ice cream and chocolate milk day together! Plus, they had breakfast foods for lunch today. It was hard to not pig out. Lunch ladies were trying to load my plate with extras, too. "Don't worry, we bake the hash browns!" Haha! I almost said, "Does it look like I'm watching my waist line?" Hehe, I explained have heartburn and just trying to limit amount of food.


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## AccaliaJay

XD your daughter gets lucky Sadist. Thats sounds good though. Today my parents went to traverse. Didn't even ask if I wanted anything. So yet again.. Anyways.. So you have Axolotl themamaj I've been trying to convince my sister in law to get one for her husband XD. She said she might get one or two for her him and her son for christmas. If they don't if I ever have to move in with them to babysit I'll probably be convincing them to get one.


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## themamaj

They are lots of fun and have quite the silly antics.


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## Sadist

I love daughter's school! It was really neat meeting all her friends. I was sad to hear one had a betta fish that was accidentally killed by older sibling during water change. She said her mom might get a new one.


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## themamaj

Hopefully the next one will fair better. Maybe you can give them some tips. Had one of our teachers at prechool as me about bettas the other day. She said they had one for awhile but it got sick and died. She said maybe you could help find another for xmas. I said sure and started talking about supplies. When said heater teacher was surprised they needed one. Most people I guess dont realize they are tropical fish.


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## Sadist

I had no idea either. Daughter wanted a pet fish for her 4th birthday, so I looked up bettas. We'd had a friend with one in a gallon bowl with half the water evaporated out. I figured I could do the same thing but keep the water full. When I looked online, I saw that they needed a lot more care and wrote up a list! It took until 2 days before her birthday before hubby consented. The girl's parents weren't there, just the girl. Next time I see her mom, I'll try to bring up the fish and heater stuff. The water change story sounded like they might have the fish in a small bowl. She said her sibling put the fish in a cup while they cleaned the bowl and accidentally dumped the cup in the drain and the fish was too wriggly to catch and died.


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## Sadist

In happier news, my mom is driving over for a visit! We're so excited to have her. She visits one time a year. She happened to schedule on a long weekend for us; daughter's school is closed for parent teacher conferences.


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## Sadist

Daughter helped with dinner feeding today. Sky was particularly vicious, shaking her pellets and making sure they weren't going to put up a fight. Blackiechat just floated there with pellets falling around him and guppies swarming to catch them all. Staring. Not noticing the food all around.


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## themamaj

Yeah so glad you get a visit with your mom! Enjoy your special time.

Silly Blackichat. Food falling from the sky. Just like a man cant find what is in front of him haha.


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## Sadist

Yes! Whole house shut down because office key card slid under the coffee pot. It took us days to find that silly thing.


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## Sadist

My mom's visit was nice. We went hiking on Saturday at a new hiking area that's just a few minutes from our house. She was also very impressed with how pretty the fish are and their appetites.


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## BettaSplendid

Aaaawww! That actually sounds like my mom's visits. Nature walks and betta appreciation!


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## ShadeSlayer

Hey, @Sadist! I dropped off out of no where for a few weeks because of school madness and just managed to pop back on. Been missing my betta fish feed. How have you been of late?


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## Sadist

Everything's been mostly nice with the fish except TS's java moss got eaten by the gammarus shrimp. He misses his cover. I'm thinking of getting more moss and then feeding the shrimp. I could see a few (since they eat their cover), and the biggest are almost 5 mm long! TS doesn't seem to be hunting them like he used to, so they've had a population explosion.

Personal life has been mostly good, too. I've gotten my chronic illness symptoms (well, the life-threatening ones) under control, but I'm still fatigued all the time.

Daughter is doing really well with her swimming. She's expressed interested in gymnastics again, but she'll be super behind again after the huge break from it. She's also too tall to really do competitions as she gets older. We could try gymnastics for fun, but the only good place here focuses more on getting ready for competition than having fun.


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## themamaj

I bet I know the gym but they should still have rec classes for fun  awesome she loves swimming.

Glad your mom had good visit. So neat you can hike together. 

Sorry all the fatigue. That stinks. I hope you start feeling better soon! I have some med stuff coming up myself. Been putting it off because of down time will have to have. Hard to explain to dr that i need to be healthy to take care of fish haha.


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## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> Everything's been mostly nice with the fish except TS's java moss got eaten by the gammarus shrimp. He misses his cover. I'm thinking of getting more moss and then feeding the shrimp. I could see a few (since they eat their cover), and the biggest are almost 5 mm long! TS doesn't seem to be hunting them like he used to, so they've had a population explosion.
> 
> Personal life has been mostly good, too. I've gotten my chronic illness symptoms (well, the life-threatening ones) under control, but I'm still fatigued all the time.
> 
> Daughter is doing really well with her swimming. She's expressed interested in gymnastics again, but she'll be super behind again after the huge break from it. She's also too tall to really do competitions as she gets older. We could try gymnastics for fun, but the only good place here focuses more on getting ready for competition than having fun.


For some reason java Moss seemed to be a difficult plant to keep for certain people. FIVE MM is GREAT for shrimps! What do they look like? 
Glad you're feeling better! It's no fun at all to have a lasting illness. i tried gymnastics and what good at it till I had a growth spurt. Glad your little kiddo likes swimming though! The taller the better there. :grin2:


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## Sadist

I had trouble in a different tank, but this tank had the loveliest, fluffiest moss taking up half the tank for about a year. I think it was the shrimp eating it. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...NwUIdyB4FzZWY2myv0degi_g&ust=1475843559493744 Here's someone else's picture of one. Mine look like this, and they range in size from speck to 5 mm. I'm not sure why TS stopped hunting them -- there was a nice colony in there a long time ago, but when I added him they disappeared for a year. I guess there were a few, just enough to keep going until this population explosion.

I hope everyone else is well!


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## ShadeSlayer

That is some impressive moss.


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## Sadist

Please keep the people fighting the fire in thoughts and prayers! New Fires Jump Fire Breaks On Roberts Mill Road - Chattanoogan.com It's not near us, but it's near one of our hiking areas. There are a few scattered houses and small communities nearby, and the winds keep blowing the fire to new areas and outside of the containment zone. It's like we're trying to be California this year.

In fish news, everyone was excited about blood worms today and yesterday. I finally figured out that Sky's mouth may be deformed. It's always opened, and I thought that was for the swim bladder issues. I see now that her top lip is shaped funny, and she probably can't close it all the way. It doesn't keep her from eating, so I'm not overly worried. 

Daughter likes to sit by Blackiechat/guppy/otto/crayfish tank and make up stories about them all playing hide and seek together. "And now, they're looking for Tigress. She's right there [in the tunnel]!" Nice to see her enjoying the pets. She wants dogs and cats, but those are too much work for us. Hubby's idea of a dog is something big that never comes inside unless it's below 0 outside. Too hot, and yard too small here, so that won't work.


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## Sadist

Brush fire continues to blaze on Signal Mountain [videos, photos] | Times Free Press The smoke was worse this morning, but the latest news says there's still no danger to people from the fires. The wind has died down, which is helping.

My poor window tanks. Even with the curtain drawn at night, they went down to 74 over night. I need to find a new place to put them for the winter where they'll also be safe from being knocked over by playing children and soapy water. Right now, none are near sinks for that reason.


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## Sadist

Tigress, Jr just came out after fresh molt. Look how vibrant she is! Sorry for the poor quality photo. I've given up trying to get a non glare picture from this tank.


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## themamaj

Oh wow he looks great! You have done really well with crays. Do you feed him anything specific? I have used the Hikari Crab Cuisine before. Is Jr in your guppy tank or with one of the bettas? How are all the fish doing? I think of Mrs Fish all the time. Just makes me smile thinking of her feisty little personality  I bet TS is beautiful as ever. He is also one of my favorites so pretty.


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## Sadist

Everyone's doing well. Tigress, Jr is in with the ottos, guppies, and the petco King (daughter named him Blackiechat, though he's blue). She gets whatever makes it to the bottom with occasionally sharing greens and algae wafers with ottos. You can tell when Tigress shares their food; ottos flip flop flooping all over area, trying to escape the scary claw-waving. She'll also come stand under feeding area and grab up stuff falling down at feeding time. She missed it today, and my hands are usually too full at feeding time to hold camera, too. TS is gorgeous as always. The winter sun comes straight in on his and Sky's tank, so they don't have lights like the others. I think it's what got the salvinia really going in TS's tank way back when. Sky is like a little velociraptor at feeding. Die, worm/shrimp/pellet/fish mush!

Uh, oh, Mrs. Fish is watching Blackiechat. Maybe she's resting; she's being super still and facing the other tank. When daughter does homework on computer, Mrs. Fish just stares and stares at her.


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## ShadeSlayer

So. Cute. bettas and their wonky personalities. Love ‘em.


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## Sadist

Daughter sits and tells me who's "it" while the fish play hide and seek. Love her little imagination.


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## ShadeSlayer

Awww! Cute. Did your female gup ever have fry?


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## themamaj

How sweet her imagination!


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## Sadist

I still don't see fry, and she still looks big. It's hard to tell with her coloring if the gravid spot is dark or not.


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## Sadist

Moved over an out of water plant to Sky's tank and some more salvinia now that the sun hits her water directly. I put a baby java fern into TS's tank, too. The seller I like to buy java moss from only has a huge section, and I'm not sure if I want to buy that (maybe half into Sky's tank, half into TS?) and have hubby yell at me for spending more money on pets. We're getting lowish on food, but he sees the necessity of food more than plants at the moment. Hard to explain to his glazed eyes after 5 seconds of fish info.

I was thinking of doing peace lilies in shower caddies in some of the tanks. I've seen baby ones at Petco already acclimated to only water on the roots. That gets the hard part of having them out of the way for me. Anyone have experience with these? I have to reread the care sheet; if I recall, they either like super bright light or constant shade. I might have to stick with pothos. I just got scared off by that infested one I got for sale last year. I'm still finding mealy bugs hidden in places (like under tank rims, on the under side of cords coming out of the water, etc).


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## themamaj

Haha glazed eyes with fish info. Sounds like my hubby  Haven't tried to buy moss online. Is it pricey? It is locally and just a very small amount but rarely have it. Peace lily sounds pretty. I still need to try the pothos.


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## Sadist

I get from Aquatic Arts. I really liked the large amount they sent last time, but the giant amount they're selling right now costs too much for me to sneak in. I think they may have just added the cost of shipping in the price since it's an amazon prime item, and ordering directly from their website uses 2 day shipping.


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## Sadist

My hornwort was supposed to come in on Wednesday. I went ahead and checked my orders to make sure it was still scheduled to arrive then and saw it had already been delivered at the front door! Whoosh into the house. 5 minutes before time to leave to pick up daughter, and I'm stuffing plants into tanks.

I ordered it from Aquatic Arts off of Amazon. I ordered the "2 large bunches" pack, and here's how much came! Here are the window tanks, a 2.5 (stuff with one bunch), and the 5.5 half-stuffed with the rest. Sky was very excited, and they're both lounging in it now. I hope it stays nice and healthy! I threw in a bonus picture of the guppies begging for food. Today is mysis shrimp day, and they're all excited for dinner! >


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## themamaj

Great! Dont you love that about shipping....oops on the doorstep. Looks like very nice plants.


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## Sadist

They're a nice, healthy green. Although Aquatic Arts has snails in the plants, their plants always come in very nicely. I recall one winter, they even put a heat pack in with my plants. They're also where I bought my crayfish pair.


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## Fenghuang

Hah, unexpected arrivals are the best... When it's aquatic stuff. :-D

That is a lot of plants. I bet it was like Christmas morning opening the packages.


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## Sadist

It is! I left a good review. Most of the other reviews were like mine, how large the bunches are and how healthy the plants are.


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## Sadist

I checked out the Walmart bettas while there for errands. There was a feisty little orange marble (messy butterfly pattern) with a little bubble nest who gave me quite the display. He has an orange beard with black spots, so cute! I would have brought him home or set him up in hubby's office if I thought he'd get taken care of. Reminded me of Mamma J's Manning boy. Or was his name Peyton? I've forgotten which part of the name he took. The Walmart bettas looked a lot younger than they used to be, but most of them had cleaner water and even bubble nests. There were still several cups with filth in them, but none of them had cloudy water. Some were by the sink ready for water changes.

Tigress Jr haunting the crayfish tunnels. Princess looks like her gravid spot is darker, and she looks even fatter than normal. Maybe they finally figured things out?

Hornwort still looking gorgeous.

While in Walmart, I was approached by an overly friendly service dog wanting attention. I felt bad shooing her back to her person. Later, I saw the dog actually paying attention to her person.


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## themamaj

It's Manning you are thinking of. Glad to hear most were in good shape. Does your store carry anything different than crown or veil tails? When I found Blue mixed in so young I was hoping that was not going to be a new trend for them. Healthier would be a good thing though.


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## Sadist

Mine just have crown and veil tails, though there are way more colors than they used to have. They looked younger, too, maybe 3 months old. They used to always look 6-12 months old in the past. Half of them had little bubble nests and attempts at bubble nests, and they seemed much healthier than they used to.


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## themamaj

That is the same type ours have. Great majority I see are typical red, blue/turquoise. Occasionally, you will see a yellow or orange variation or a multi variety. It is wonderful you are seeing bubble nests. How many bettas does your store typically have at a time? Ours will have anything from 5 to 50 depending on when you hit shipment day. I get a bit aggravated when see huge numbers where they are even stacking them because I realize the turnover is not that great.


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## AccaliaJay

One of my mom gourami hasn't been as active it's been stay near the bottom. I noticed some spots of discoloration on it. To me it looks like some scales are missing. Doesn't it? And yes I know there's alot of poo in the bottom. Iv been slacking on stirring it up for the filter and cleaning the tank. (mothers been driving me bonkers and threatening to kick me out)

On some good news my uncle Donny (he's actually my mom's uncle) said we could have his wife's old tank. It's apparently really long. My parents said it may be a fifty gallon. I told my mom she should use that for the gouramis and pleco. Maybe if there's aggression having more room will ease it. Also there's algae build up behind the heater I think the pleco cant get it. Next time I clean it should I wipe it out or leave it and move the heater? My mom asked if I could put one of my snails in there but I think between the huge pleco and aggressive gouramis it would end up dead.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> That is the same type ours have. Great majority I see are typical red, blue/turquoise. Occasionally, you will see a yellow or orange variation or a multi variety. It is wonderful you are seeing bubble nests. How many bettas does your store typically have at a time? Ours will have anything from 5 to 50 depending on when you hit shipment day. I get a bit aggravated when see huge numbers where they are even stacking them because I realize the turnover is not that great.


I don't check very often, but there were maybe 15-20 this time. Still too many. Only a few were stacked on each other, but they go 3-4 deep in the shelf (so some have light all the time and some have no light at all unless the fish guy moves them around). They really should just not have fish at a 24/7 store.


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## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> One of my mom gourami hasn't been as active it's been stay near the bottom. I noticed some spots of discoloration on it. To me it looks like some scales are missing. Doesn't it? And yes I know there's alot of poo in the bottom. Iv been slacking on stirring it up for the filter and cleaning the tank. (mothers been driving me bonkers and threatening to kick me out)
> 
> On some good news my uncle Donny (he's actually my mom's uncle) said we could have his wife's old tank. It's apparently really long. My parents said it may be a fifty gallon. I told my mom she should use that for the gouramis and pleco. Maybe if there's aggression having more room will ease it. Also there's algae build up behind the heater I think the pleco cant get it. Next time I clean it should I wipe it out or leave it and move the heater? My mom asked if I could put one of my snails in there but I think between the huge pleco and aggressive gouramis it would end up dead.


The pleco really needs the bigger tank. He could probably use a 100 gallon tank. It's hard to say which fish is the aggressor, too. The other gourami? The pleco? I also agree that an added snail would probably die. Maybe some pest snails could get back there and then get eaten, but then you'd have pest snails in there forever. You could wipe it, or if the filter is able to be moved, move the filter over and give the pleco access.

Here's a pleco care sheet, and not the one the store provides that says it's okay to keep them in a little 20 gallon tank. Pleco Care I know your mom isn't overly into following care sheets, but I'll pass it on just in case.



> *Aquarium size*
> 
> Many aquarists routinely purchase Common pleco from the fish store in order to combat algae growth in the aquarium, but if you have a small aquarium the Common pleco is not a very wise choice since these fishes can reach a length of 30-60 cm (1-2 feet). They are normally sold when they are no bigger than 5-10 cm (2-4 inches) but they will grow bigger each year and will eventually outgrow a small aquarium. Be prepared to house your Common pleco in at least 200-375 litres of water (around 50-100 gallons). How old a pleco can become remains unknown, but the maximal lifespan in captivity is believed to be at least 20 years - provided of course that the fish is given suitable pleco care.


Do you know the gender of the gourami's? I've read that males can get territorial with each other. There's so much info out there, I'm not sure what to believe. The care sheet I found said they like lots of hiding spots and plants but make sure there's an open spot for exercise. Maybe adding two groups of tall silk plants in there will give them some hidey territories and help them get along better. Of course, having the new tank be a nice 50 gallon tank might fix all that, too. Gourami Information: Types, Care and Breeding | All Aquarium Info - Where to buy Garra Rufa , Doctor Fish and Other Aquatic Articles 

Blue Gourami, Three-spot Gourami, Trichopodus trichopterus (Trichogaster trichopterus)



> *Aquarium Care*
> 
> These gouramis are extremely hardy fish. Although the labyrinth organ allows the fish to survive in oxygen depleted water, it is a common misconception that this makes water changes unnecessary. This is hardly the case as these fish will suffer the same tissue damage from built up toxins as any other fish. Regular water changes are a must with 25% weekly being recommended.
> 
> Water Changes: Weekly - Weekly water changes of 25% are recommended.
> 
> 
> *Aquarium Setup*
> 
> The Blue Gourami will swim in all parts of the tank. When young they can easily housed in a 15 - 20 gallon aquarium, but adults will need at least 35 gallons or more. It is desirable to keep the tank in a room with a temperature as close as possibleto the tank water to prevent damaging the labyrinth organ. The tank should have an efficient filtration system but should not to create too much of a current. This fish will be bothered by a strong current in the tank, especially if the tank is small. Air stones can help provide well oxygenated water.
> 
> These gouramis will show their colors best on a dark substrate. The tank should be decorated in a way which allows both the dominant and quieter personality type fish to live happily. This means the construction of a few hiding places and some dense plant cover. This species appreciates the cover of floating plants, however they will regularly breath air at the surface so its important to have some areas unencumbered with plants.
> 
> Minimum Tank Size: 35 gal (132 L)
> Suitable for Nano Tank: Sometimes - Juveniles can be kept in a 15 - 20 gallon aquarium, but adults need more space.
> Substrate Type: Any
> Lighting Needs: Moderate - normal lighting
> Temperature: 73.0 to 82.0° F (22.8 to 27.8° C) - Keep the surrounding room temperature consistent with the water temperature will help avoid trauma to the labyrinth organ. Breeding temperature is about 80° F (26° C).
> Breeding Temperature: 80.0° F - They will breed with temperatures raised to about 80° F (26° C).
> Range ph: 6.0-8.8
> Hardness Range: 5 - 35 dGH
> Brackish: No
> Water Movement: Weak - This fish doesn't like a strong current in the tank, especially if the tank is small.
> Water Region: All - These fish will inhabit all levels of the aquarium.
> 
> 
> *Social Behaviors*
> 
> The Blue Gourami is generally considered a good community fish when small, but they are not as peaceful as the other gouramis. They have been known to attack smaller fish. When they get older only keep them with fish their own size. Individuals will show varying degrees of aggression. Some will be very belligerent and will handle their tank mates quite roughly. Others will be peaceful to the point of shyness. The aquarist should be prepared to adapt their tank to suit all personality types.
> 
> A mix of neutral personalities is an ideal goal for the range of tank mates. You should not include fish which will provoke this species into aggression as they are often passionate fighters. Fin nippers and gouramis should absolutely never be mixed. The trailing pelvic fins and generally slower movement of this gourami make it the perfect victim for nippers. Being skilled hunters, extremely small fish or fish fry rarely last long.
> 
> Good tankmates for this fish are robust cyprinid species like barbs, but avoid those that are notorious fin nippers like Tiger Barbs and Clown Barbs. Other good selections include larger characins, loricariid catfish from South America, and loaches. They can be kept with other medium to large gouramis, but bullying between gouramis is a likely scenario. These fish, which is typical of the family, are fixated on constantly working out the details of the hierarchy.
> 
> Venomous: No
> Temperament: Peaceful - Although the fish is generally peaceful, very small tankmates may be bullied.
> Compatible with:
> Same species - conspecifics: Yes - As they mature some remain peaceful while other can become belligerent. Males are territorial and will tussle amongst themselves, becoming very aggressive when breeding.
> Peaceful fish (): Safe - Will need to monitor compatibility as the fish matures.
> Semi-Aggressive (): Monitor
> Aggressive (): Threat
> Large Semi-Aggressive (): Threat
> Large Aggressive, Predatory (): Threat
> Slow Swimmers & Eaters (): Monitor - Gouramis can be quick at feeding time. Make sure any fish that are not so quick get fed if you are keeping them with gouramis.
> Shrimps, Crabs, Snails: May be aggressive
> Plants: Safe
> 
> 
> *Sex: Sexual differences*
> 
> The male Blue Gourami has a longer and more pointed dorsal fin while the female's is shorter and rounded.


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## AccaliaJay

My mom won't believe me when I say someone would take the pleco. I told her countless times he's to big for the tank. I believe her tank is like a 36 gallon. She just keeps waiting for them to die.. and I don't do well sexing fish without pictures to compare XD I just know their owner before us said they killed an angel fish. There's two of the blue ones and two gold ones.i just stood there for twenty minutes staring at them. At one point I started to wonder if there was a male and female of each but I'm not 100% sure. The anal fins and dorsal fins keep throwing me off. I know I just noticed one of the gold ones has a bite missing from its dorsal fin though. I guess their somewhat like Bettas then huh? They can be fine for so long and then next you know their tearing into each other. I'll make sure if it's possible(we don't know if the tank will hold water yet) that if the tank from my uncle Donny is bigger that they go in there. I've always been tempted to take that rock decoration out so the pleco has more swimming space but then there would only be one fake plant... And then the gouramis would have no hidey spot.


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## Sadist

Maybe the pleco and one pair of gourami could go to the bigger tank? I didn't realize there were 4 gourami all in there. Probably way too small unless they're all girls and want to live together. With the bites out of fins, at least one is getting aggressive. Maybe they're also trying to breed? I've read about lots of different types of community-safe fish get really aggressive when they try to breed.


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## AccaliaJay

I checked the temp of the tank and it was at 74 but then. I dunno. If you want I can try to get pictures of each individual gourami.


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## Sadist

At this point, I'd guess a crowding/no hiding spots issue like you do. The bigger tank should help, and maybe some upside down silk plants or something to give the gouramis places to hide and leave enough bottom space for the pleco.


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## themamaj

Where did you find care sheet? Great info!


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## Sadist

I just did a google search. I'm never sure which care sheet to use on things, but I try to err on the side of "bigger tank and more plants" when I can.

Well, we decided to finally get a cool front, so no sun. I may have to buy lights for the window tanks if this lasts too long. I want the new plants to help with water quality, not make it worse! It's still looking nice, but I do see a bunch of needles in Sky's tank.

TS seems to be slowing down and having problems noticing his food. He'll get excited to see me, not see the food even when it falls past his face, and then not chase it down to the bottom like he used to do if he missed it. He was a fully grown (over 6 months old) Walmart boy, so I think he's just old and had too much of his life in bad conditions. I've had him almost a year now, but I've gotta go back through my records to be sure.


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## themamaj

Wow hard to believe already year. Hard to see them age. TS is so pretty. Always enjoy hearing about your fish. Hornwort had in past will drop needles initially. It will come back. Very cloudy and cool here today too.


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## Sadist

The earliest dated picture of him is in January. I thought I'd gotten him in November like Sky. It looks like I've had Sky for almost a year, then! She sure has grown, but she's still smaller than my others. I changed her water every day in the 2.5, but it wasn't enough to keep her from being small. She's enjoying her hornwort, goes in there to hide from the sun when it comes out.


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## themamaj

Sky was a betta baby? You know I wonder if just genetics or if being a baby cupped at such a young age stunts them sometimes. Have had same issue with Popsicle. She was so little when got her. Even when changed water frequent as you said she has still stayed on small side. Carly was similar age when got her. She is huge in comparison and raised same way. Both are same tail type which is interesting.

Does Mrs Fish have some hornwort? I wondered if she has dared anyone to come near new plant


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish didn't have room for hornwort  She's on my desk, and her light keeps the salvinia and water sprite going really well. All the crytps and anubias underneath those get enough ambient light to do well, too. I really love how her tank turned out and stays all jungley. Mrs. Fish has been really sweet since I let her get fat. She rarely flares at me, but she does still patrol her tank to make sure those other fish haven't jumped 2 feet over into her water.

Oh, I forgot to mention daughter's school lets you come eat with them. I drop by for lunch every once in a while, and so far the food has been decent for cafeteria. It's pretty much a $3 buffet, so I always eat too much. The lunch ladies are really sweet and love children, too. 1/month, they also have a breakfast day, so we've been going to those. Hubby wonders why all the homeless people don't show up for cheap breakfasts on those days. Security is pretty lax; I think most anyone could say they were eating breakfast with kiddo and show up! Of course, we only know what day to show up because they send us email ahead of time.

I showed daughter a baby java fern on the end of a leaf I need to trim. She said, "plants don't have babies like that!" I explained that a lot of water plants do that, just grow a baby on the end of a leaf that's going to fall off. I really need to do something with that tank; most of the cover is gone. Most of the plants are floating with just a few java ferns down by the gravel for cover. The little rock garden makes enough hidey holes for Tigress crayfish, but I think the guppies and Blackiechat betta could use something in the middle. I think the light won't really work for hornwort (salvinia and frogbit cover most of the surface). I do have some floating wisteria that I could try to plant.


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## themamaj

Lol Mrs Fish you need to watch those 2ft away boys! She is precious. 

Great you get to go often for lunch. I still want to do that w grandson one day. Sounds like your school has good food. 

Funny daughter doesnt think plants can grow babies. I wish mine would have more sprouts. 

Speaking of procrastinating vacuuming jungle Strasse tank. Always stresses me as afraid will accidentally suck up a shrimp.


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## BettaSplendid

I always suck up baby shrimp! Tons of them. Daughter enjoys getting them out of the waste water for me and putting them back in their tank. Maybe a job for grandson. I bet he has sharp eyes! 

I laughed at Mrs. Fish guarding her tank too. Hehehehe. 

TS showing his age, yes, those cups take a lot out of them. Probably why Smokey passed soon and suddenly.


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## AccaliaJay

Today has been awful. I've been trying not to cuss but why does my mom bitch as me for everything? Like seriously? I'm not the one who chose this bedroom? My only choice of spot for my fish tanks are right there between the entrance of my room and the living room. So when my sister decides to get into my tank losing the lid to the filter splashing the water with her hand and throwing junk in there Its my fault? If I moved my tanks to the other side of the room there would be less room for firewood. We couldn't plug in the lamps or even my mom's phone charger without having cords going through the walkway into my room. And there would be nothing to stop her from climbing over the side table and getting into my room. And when I smack her hands and tell her no firmly for getting into my tank or ripping my hair out I get bitched at? I don't even smack them that hard. So why am I getting yelled at for trying to stop her from getting to my tank?


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## Sadist

TS didn't eat today. He moved away from the feeding spot. I'm not sure how long he has, but I hope he doesn't die over the weekend.

I'm sorry about your family issues, AccaliaJay. Maybe if your mom was actively watching the little ones, they wouldn't get into trouble. I hope you can work out something. Hitting little kids (even light slaps on the hand) can lead to issues I wanted to avoid, so I literally followed my kid around all the time when she was little. Of course, not everyone can do that, and not every kid can be thrown into a playpen for 30 minutes while you work on something.


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## AccaliaJay

Our house isn't suited for toddlers. If my parents weren't so freaking picky about houses we wouldn't have this issue and I could finally have a room with privacy. Since I was a kid I've never had a bedroom with a door on it. The only door iv ever had was at my old house when I slept in the room attached to the laundry room I got my dad to hang up a blanket so it was like a blanket wall.


----------



## BettaSplendid

No other symptoms? Poor little TS. It is so hard to see them like this. He sure was lucky you picked him though!


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## Sadist

He's been a bit lethargic lately, too. I wasn't sure if it was the new crowding plant. I put a few drops of prime in this morning. With the loss of the java moss, maybe my little balance was off. I don't think I'll be able to do a good water change until Monday, though.


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## themamaj

TS hang in there


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## Sadist

I saw a baby ramshorn in TS's tank, probably from the hornwort. It was so cute and reminded me of Ramsy. He still didn't eat today. I see lots of gammarus shrimp swarming around in the hornwort. I wonder if he stopped eating them long ago, and that's how they were able to grow enough population to eat the java moss. If he passes, I think I'll just keep that tank full of live food and see if the Ramsy II grows up and can be moved somewhere.

Even with the curtain closed, Sky's tank got down to 70. I put an extra heater in there. Hard to keep her tank warm in cooler weather as we let the house temp drop so low. I think I ended up with 3 heaters in her tank and a space heater pointed at it last year. I should probably bring out the blankets, too. She ate well and is as active as normal. She's a tough girl.

Mrs Fish, Blackiechat, and guppies very enthusiastic for breakfast. I managed to thaw out some bloodworms even with family home, so they're nice and fat. Fed the ottos some wafers, too. Nice to see them come out of hiding. They usually sit on the striped rocks in the back of the tank, and they blend right in!

Took daughter to Lake Winnie yesterday. I really regret not buying the roller coaster picture. She picked a back seat, so the flash didn't get us very well. I had a big, goofy grin, but she had her pout-pout lip quivering with fear. Precious memory!


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## BettaSplendid

Hahaha, keep that tank for live food only. Good luck with that! All it takes is one wiggle dance and begging eyes and your resolve will weaken.


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## AccaliaJay

Poor TS... Liberty's not doing well either. So sad having sick ones. Libertys about a year and a half since I got him.

Sadist you mentioned plants having babies XD just wanted to know if you think my Anubis Nana looks like it's doing good? I really want to do that trim and plant thing but not sure how that works. I'm counting 12 or 13 leafs. It seems a little crowded in my opinion having so many leafs.


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## Sadist

Your anubias does look like it's happy! I'm not sure how to trim them, either. I assumed the rhizome would be really long and can just cut that in half and have two plants. I've made a crappy picture about it if that helps the words make sense.

TS is the same, just hanging out but not interested in food. I think he's just old and has all that prior mistreatment making him old earlier.


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## themamaj

How is TS today?


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## AccaliaJay

I'll have to try it XD and poor TS


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## Aqua Aurora

AccaliaJay said:


> Poor TS... Liberty's not doing well either. So sad having sick ones. Libertys about a year and a half since I got him.
> 
> Sadist you mentioned plants having babies XD just wanted to know if you think my Anubis Nana looks like it's doing good? I really want to do that trim and plant thing but not sure how that works. I'm counting 12 or 13 leafs. It seems a little crowded in my opinion having so many leafs.


you can look up videos on youtube for "anubias propagation" or "anubias splitting" usually uses a clean sharp blase/scissors cut rhizome in between leaves. The more rhizome you give for each cut the faster it can start growing again. Rhizomes store the energy the plant produces to put towards making new leaves. more rhizome=more stored energy. If you ct a tiny under 1" piece of rhizome that plant will take a long time to get enough energy to grow again/grow very slowly.


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## AccaliaJay

Aqua Aurora said:


> you can look up videos on youtube for "anubias propagation" or "anubias splitting" usually uses a clean sharp blase/scissors cut rhizome in between leaves. The more rhizome you give for each cut the faster it can start growing again. Rhizomes store the energy the plant produces to put towards making new leaves. more rhizome=more stored energy. If you ct a tiny under 1" piece of rhizome that plant will take a long time to get enough energy to grow again/grow very slowly.


So what if I cut the rhizome in half? I don't mind waiting to get more. It's just feel it has alot of leaves right now. And is that what it's called propagation? Such a weird name XD thanks for the info though I didn't know if you had to cut the rhizome or just a leaf XD


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## Aqua Aurora

AccaliaJay said:


> So what if I cut the rhizome in half? I don't mind waiting to get more. It's just feel it has alot of leaves right now. And is that what it's called propagation? Such a weird name XD thanks for the info though I didn't know if you had to cut the rhizome or just a leaf XD


You can cut it in half it looks long enough to do fine. And just the rhizome.


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## Sadist

TS still just hanging out and not interested in food. He waved a fin at me. I think I'll just keep him comfy and keep offering food every day. I was able to keep the window tanks warm through the night with a blanket, so there's that going for him.


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## Sadist

I forgot the blanket last night, so the window tanks got cool again :-( TS is not happy, but he's still alive. He's not clamped, but he's hiding.


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## themamaj

Poor buddy. Maybe warmth of sun today will be some comfort for him.


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## Sadist

He is sunbathing a bit. Sky as active as ever, in spite of the cooler water.

First is the window tanks together. You can see Sky like a little blue throwing star in her tank. Then, is a badly glaring picture of Sky, a picture of TS looking forlorn, and a bonus picture of Mrs. Fish napping. Her belly is always big like that.


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## themamaj

Your salvina looks great! Plant coverage very nice in tanks. I wish I could get some of mine to fill in like that. Mrs Fish...love her. Enjoyed pictures.


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## Sadist

Thank you! Most of the good plant coverage is just that hornwort I just got in  Except Mrs. Fish's tank. She gets some far-away "daylight" bulb from a standing lamp, and some close up from her tank's personal lamp. The far away lamp is angled, so the low light plants that get it really love it, and the top personal one really grows the salvinia and water sprite really well. I've actually just thinned TS's salvinia over the past week. It grow so much that it was in layers and starting to die (top couldn't reach the water, and bottom couldn't reach the light). Now, there's space in there, and hopefully it'll grow better. I love my ladies and their personalities. I've never had such aggressive fish!


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## Sadist

TS is starting to pine cone :-( He's not bloated, just skinny and old. I'm thinking of putting him down since he hasn't eaten for so long. I don't imagine it feels good for him. It reminds me of my grandma, though at least they were able to give her pain medication and such to keep her comfy.


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## BettaSplendid

So sorry! That happened to Hatzie too. He was old plus had a horrid start at Wal-Mart. Then when our power went out he got so cold and started to pinecone and hid in his coral decoration. He didn't last long in the cold. Poor boys. 


I was a bit confused reading your journal. I was looking for the new fish. ...... then realized I had a very realistic dream, that I was reading your journal (!) and you had posted a picture of your new betta. You will never guess what you got.  A blue crowntail girl. Haha! So now you have 3.  Realistic dreams can be frustrating, I could have sworn it was real.


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## themamaj

So sorry about TS. It is so hard when they get to that point because you are just waiting  He sure has been a lucky boy to have had a great home. As we know not many Walmart boys get that opportunity. Hugs


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## Sadist

That a funny dream! No more fish for me for a while. The 2.5 was never meant to be a permanent home for TS. I'm glad I kept him since he was older to begin with. Thanks for the well-wishes, everyone. I remembered the blanket, and the window tanks are warm today. TS isn't active. He may have eaten, or the gammarus shrimp/baby snails got greedy and got to his food before I did. 

Sky is still doing well. She did a mini flare at her food before she attacked it. Community tank fish enjoyed their chunk of food, and Mrs. Fish was slightly surprised at the angle her food came in.


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## themamaj

Guppies doing well?


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## Sadist

Guppies are doing the same. They look like they're going to be parents, but I never see babies. They eat heartily, zipping around Blackiechat.

Ottos all active right now for some reason. I see Tigress may be bothering them. She came out for feeding time.


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## themamaj

Ottos are so cute. I have only seen them in stores but they look like they would be a very fun fish to have. Are they usually pretty shy?


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## BettaSplendid

I only have 1 guppy now.  I guess I need to get some more. I like having them. I'd love to order some really cool ones but probably should go with whatever the petstore has. I really want another solid yellow delta like Lemonade! I don't know if you remember him, he was my favorite one. SIP dear Lemonade.


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## themamaj

Lemonade was so pretty. Love yellows and Cornelius is orange isnt he Sadist? Was thinking other black? Awe reminds me of guppy fry had briefly. They were black.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Ottos are so cute. I have only seen them in stores but they look like they would be a very fun fish to have. Are they usually pretty shy?


Mine weren't shy when I had a full shoal of 6. I have 4 now, and they mostly hide. Some were out quite a bit yesterday, on the glass and such.



BettaSplendid said:


> I only have 1 guppy now.  I guess I need to get some more. I like having them. I'd love to order some really cool ones but probably should go with whatever the petstore has. I really want another solid yellow delta like Lemonade! I don't know if you remember him, he was my favorite one. SIP dear Lemonade.


I remember Lemonade! I've found that I have to buy 3x the amount I want from the store to get any survivors. When I do get survivors, they last a long time.



themamaj said:


> Lemonade was so pretty. Love yellows and Cornelius is orange isnt he Sadist? Was thinking other black? Awe reminds me of guppy fry had briefly. They were black.


Yes, Cornelius is orange and black (but with no spots, which both parents had!). Princess is black and silver.

TS ate today! He only had one bite, but it's something. He attempted a wiggle dance, too, but it was pretty pathetic compared to the way it used to be. Remembering the lid and blanket at night is helping quite a bit.


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## themamaj

Good news for TS. How old is Cornelius now?


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## Sadist

I think Cornelius is close to 1 year old, now. 

TS passed away last night. Daughter picked out a place to bury him. She wanted to come see the body in the tank and zoomed over before I could fish him out. "Eww, he looks gross!" He was covered with gammarus shrimp, and they looked like a bunch of tiny tumors. They work fast! I'd like to think he enjoys the ones that managed to get buried with him. He was a sweet fish, the only one who danced for daughter.


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## BettaSplendid

That is sweet, his dancing. Some bettas have especially lovely hearts... is it me or do they always seem to be the veil tails that are the sweetest? Thinking of Twinkie, Chance, Dangerous, and Tequila Sunrise. Such dear boys. TS was a gorgeous one. I am glad he was truly appreciated and for that he was blessed in his life. So many are used as decor. You gave him a real home. And many happy days hunting live shrimp and working on his nest.  I am sure he was quite pleased with it all!


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## themamaj

Aww so sad to hear about TS! I know he lived a long wonderful life. He will be missed. Such a treasure he danced for your daughter.


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## Sadist

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1477934404 - PK DT White Female - Ends: Mon Oct 31 2016 - 12:20:04 PM CDT female white with double tail dorsal! I thought of you, @themamaj! Aww, here's one with the double tail tail, and it's red! Looks like a valentine's day betta AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettasdt1477938606 - DBT015 (Female) - Piglet By Thanont - Ends: Mon Oct 31 2016 - 01:30:06 PM CDT

There were some 1/2 giants in the plakat section on aquabid, but they looked so stressed with the ruler next to them.

Well, I'm off to get fish food. I finally used up the rest of the Omega One pellets over the weekend. Was going to upgrade to the other good brand and try it out if they have the carnivore variety. Wish me good luck resisting any fish in the store. Also low on frozen shrimp and worms, and will buy some more community formula frozen while I'm there.


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## Sadist

They didn't have new life spectrum small formula, and the ones they had were too big for guppy mouths (and probably many bettas). Since I only use pellets when I don't have time to thaw other stuff or cut up frozen stuff into pellet sizes, I went ahead and got Omega One mini pellets again. The mini ones had more whole fish ingredients over the betta buffet, and the pellets were about the same size.

And... this cute little veil tail girl followed me home. The girl at the register told me I was bringing home her favorite and that she'd been there forever. As she put it, "She'll need a little TLC to get her weight back up." Her second favorite was also my second favorite, a little crown tail grizzle girl. The crown tail looked more robust and healthy. I pointed out the frozen bloodworms and mysis shrimp (they were out of my community frozen stuff) and that the tank will have live food in there. She should fatten up in no time if I acclimate her well. Right now, she's warming up to house temp. I'll get some prime in her cup and probably float her in the tank over night, then start the water acclimation tomorrow. Will be super busy with Halloween.

Here's the best picture I could get of her! Her body is yellow pineapple with blue iridescence, but her fins are pinkish (for now). I hope daughter and she can get along.


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## Sadist

Oh, they had new kinds of fish there, too. They had one plakat, and they had two "Koi males," which were between the size of "baby betta" and "female" at the store. They were so tiny, but they were also both red and black and cello. I imagine they won't be overly koi once they get put into good water and fed some food.

Everyone liked the OO mini, most of which were actually smaller than betta buffet. It looks like when I crushed up pellets for the guppies last year. New girl ate three, and everyone else ate a mini pinch (3-8). No picky eaters in my house, thank you!


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## MysticSky22301

I have an oil filled radiator in what WAS the nursery keeping my fish warm, my space heater went *pffft* the radiator has less chance of causing a fire too o.o 

I gotta learn how to propagate plants as well ^^ I've never cut the plants I'm always afraid I'll kill them


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## Sadist

A bunch of plants sprout baby plants on the end of a leaf or on a random spot on a stem, and those can be cut off. I've been lazy and letting mine fall off naturally, float over somewhere, and plant themselves. Or just float around, happy little plants.

Daughter named the new girl Cin-Cin (pronounced "Sin-sin"). I've moved her cup into the tank to acclimate temperatures, and I managed to catch and feed her a gammarus shrimp. She seems interested in the plants. I hope she eats some of the snails as well as the shrimp once she goes in tomorrow!


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## Sadist

Daughter is a princess this year. Bummer it's so hot this year!


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> They didn't have new life spectrum small formula, and the ones they had were too big for guppy mouths (and probably many bettas). Since I only use pellets when I don't have time to thaw other stuff or cut up frozen stuff into pellet sizes, I went ahead and got Omega One mini pellets again. The mini ones had more whole fish ingredients over the betta buffet, and the pellets were about the same size.
> 
> And... this cute little veil tail girl followed me home. The girl at the register told me I was bringing home her favorite and that she'd been there forever. As she put it, "She'll need a little TLC to get her weight back up." Her second favorite was also my second favorite, a little crown tail grizzle girl. The crown tail looked more robust and healthy. I pointed out the frozen bloodworms and mysis shrimp (they were out of my community frozen stuff) arnd that the tank will have live food in there. She should fatten up in no time if I acclimate her well. Right now, she's warming up to house temp. I'll get some prime in her cup and probably float her in the tank over night, then start the water acclimation tomorrow. Will be super busy with Halloween.
> 
> Here's the best picture I could get of her! Her body is yellow pineapple with blue iridescence, but her fins are pinkish (for now). I hope daughter and she can get along.


She is beautiful! Her eyes are so pretty. Must have seemed an eternity she spent waiting for a human.


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## Sadist

She decided I was taking too long to acclimate her and jumped out of the cup. Haha! She's very interested in the shrimp. Fed everyone bloodworms today, too. She attacked the toothpick. I didn't realize she had so much spunk! The check out lady had mentioned sororities since I liked so many of their females (but that they need bigger tanks). I let her know I only had one tank big enough, and it has a petco king in it. He's too big for the smaller tanks. I'm not sure the three ladies I have would work well, they're so aggressive and sassy!


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> They didn't have new life spectrum small formula, and the ones they had were too big for guppy mouths (and probably many bettas). Since I only use pellets when I don't have time to thaw other stuff or cut up frozen stuff into pellet sizes, I went ahead and got Omega One mini pellets again. The mini ones had more whole fish ingredients over the betta buffet, and the pellets were about the same size.
> 
> And... this cute little veil tail girl followed me home. The girl at the register told me I was bringing home her favorite and that she'd been there forever. As she put it, "She'll need a little TLC to get her weight back up." Her second favorite was also my second favorite, a little crown tail grizzle girl. The crown tail looked more robust and healthy. I pointed out the frozen bloodworms and mysis shrimp (they were out of my community frozen stuff) and that the tank will have live food in there. She should fatten up in no time if I acclimate her well. Right now, she's warming up to house temp. I'll get some prime in her cup and probably float her in the tank over night, then start the water acclimation tomorrow. Will be super busy with Halloween.
> 
> Here's the best picture I could get of her! Her body is yellow pineapple with blue iridescence, but her fins are pinkish (for now). I hope daughter and she can get alonf
> g.


Love new girl!!! Great find


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## themamaj

Daughter is so beautiful in costume!


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## Sadist

Thank you! Cin-Cin is so cute, wriggling through hornwort in pursuit of gammarus shrimp. Sky is so cute with her little saw-tail, and Mrs. Fish with her giant appetite. Everyone ate well today, had the frozen formula equivalent of pellets. I have some new pictures of everyone on the camera, and I'll transfer them to the computer soon.


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## themamaj

Cant wait to see! Love each of your fish!


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish is pineconing out of the blue. I'm devastated.


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## themamaj

Noooo!


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## Sadist

Mrs. Fish is still eating and patrolling, but she is resting more and still pineconed. I'm amazed by her endurance. 

Cin-cin should be named Bottomless Pit. She begs for food whenever I'm nearby. I think she ate all the gammarus shrimp who were bad at hiding. 

I had a wonderful dream that I had a real fish room. Some parts were bad, like I had sick Mrs. Fish still. In my fish room, I had this lovely 10 feet long tank with water plants in the bottom and vine plants suctioned onto the sides above the water line. In my dream, I had forgotten about the tank for a while, but there it was ready for whatever I wanted to do. Sorority, axolotl, whatever. Also, my normal tanks were all 20 gallon tanks instead of the small ones they are 

I totally forgot to look for those baby peace lily plants ready to be suctioned onto the tops of tanks. I've been thinking of those for a while with the thought that eventually, the roots will grow out through whatever they're in (shower caddy/tiny breeder box, etc) and droop into the water as hiding spots while the leaves purify the air.

Blackiechat is doing well, though I don't spend as much time with him as I should. He's picked a new hiding spot and likes to lounge in the plants where I can actually see him. Guppies and Tigress still doing well, too.


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## themamaj

What great dream. Glad Mrs Fish still hanging in there. She is a true fighter. I still want to try the shower caddy and pothos. 

Cin-cin sounds like a character. I love to watch them when have such enthusiasm.


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## BettaSplendid

Oooooh no! I am so sorry about Mrs. Fish!


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## Sadist

Me, too. I'm not sure if I should pace her through rigorous medicine regimens (which may kill her from stress) or just let her be comfy for her remaining days.


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## Sadist

Aww, facebook just did a throwback picture from a year ago with the newborn guppies. I guess Cornelius is a year old, now!


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## Sadist

I've had two honey bees try to eat my skirt today, and a wasp rode around in my hair until I noticed it. I'm a bit tired of the warm fall weather we're having this year 

Mrs. Fish got a lot worse over the hour I took picking up daughter and going to playground with her. I'm putting her to sleep tonight so she isn't suffering any longer.


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## themamaj

Mrs Fish. ..No one will ever replace you feisty spirit and joy you have brought. We will greatly miss you!!!!!


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## themamaj

A Happy One Year to Cornelius! Actually he has inspired me on a little side project I have going on. I was 100% failure last time. So far this time at 50% currently but think I may need to start with bigger numbers and expect a 50% loss as one really good site said Feeder Guppies: How-To 

My project: guppy fry aka feeder fish which are really young juveniles. I did some reading on one website that really intrigued me. Since you have had experience with guppy fry, it might be something you enjoy as well. Feeder fish are raised in outdoor ponds in Florida. They are descendants from fancy guppies that essentially have been left to breed on their own. Since bright colors aren't an advantage in the wild, over generations they have reverted back to the "wild" colors. For me I really like that. The advantage to a feeder fish is that they can be very diverse in color and tail type plus they are sold at very cheap. The disadvantage is that they have come from outside conditions and put in very cramped bad conditions in store therefore exposed to more disease. This guy that does this gets a large batch of feeders and takes them home and treats them for parasites. They are in a quarantine tank. He feeds well and gets them healthy. When they are big and healthy he puts them in community tanks. Once the fish has been restored to health it has the life expectancy as a traditional guppy. Sounds like a lot of work? Maybe, not really, but I love the challenge to overcome the odds! I brought home 6 yesterday. 3 died last night. I have them in a quarantine tank with salt and started prazipro. Fed them daphnia with vitachem and garlic last night. Those 3 ate well. Today they ate some flake food. I realized this is against all odds but if I can be successful would love to have a tank of wild type guppies. I probably will go out in next few days and get about 2 dozen more feeders. Our store sells them for 13 cents a piece. The sad thing for the feeder fish is that the outcome is pretty grave for them if they survive to store. Cramped and potentially sick conditions and maybe death in store. If bought, fed to larger fish. Anyway, I am a true advocate for the underdog and have been intrigued by how pretty these little fish really are. Hopefully I will have the opportunity to see a few live long happy lives.


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## themamaj

Grown feeder fish


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## MysticSky22301

Feeders, to me are fail fry. My fancy culls. I get throwback fish alot they look like poor color endlers and are no use to me for breeding

Poor miss fish


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## Sadist

What a joy for the feeder endlers, Mama J! I did feed my culled fry to Mrs. Fish back in the day. They were just the runts, and I thought I'd be so overwhelmed with guppy numbers that culling the runts wouldn't be so bad. Little did I know, I'd end up with just Cornelius!

Poor Mrs. Fish. It always hits me harder when I have to put them down. TS gradually faded over a few weeks, so I was as ready as you can be ready for him to pass. Mrs. Fish looked up in my face right before she passed. So precious, but my mind isn't ready for her to be gone. I keep expecting to see her watching me from the corner or glaring at the community tank from the other corner. 

Daughter expressed interest in salamander ee coloring, so I may get one of those for Mrs. Fish's tank next week. I might just move Cin-cin over, though, and just keep the 2.5 gallon tank empty. What a greedy guts she is. I've been feeding her 3 times a day when I'm home at lunch. She comes right over and begs for food whenever someone enters the room.


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## themamaj

I am so sad about Mrs Fish too. I don't think we are ever ready to let go. She was a very special girl! I will always remember her fondly and smile. I hope you are able to get a nice EE. Great that daughter has taken interest in them.


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## Sadist

The salamander coloring is the closest we come to pink bettas here. When she saw the picture of one, she was so excited! She doesn't want to come to the store to pick one out, though. All the self discipline bores her.


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## MysticSky22301

Sadist if your comfortable ordering a fish I know a seller I got my pink salamander EE pair from^^ Mortimer and Ruby are beautiful with awesome fluttery ears


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## Sadist

Right now, all the fish stuff needs to be paid with cash :-( Maybe in a few years, I'll be able to order online if your seller still sells then. Thanks!


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## themamaj

Lol your daughter tickles me! Going to store is the best part. At least you get to have the fun shopping.


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## Sadist

She just wants to pick one and go, but I want to browse and find a healthy one that also responds positively towards me, etc etc. She used to love shopping, but now she doesn't.


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## AccaliaJay

Sorry for your loss Sadist. I just lost Liberty today. I don't know when I'll be able to get another Betta either because my parents never tell me when their going near PetSmart or meijers. I wonder if I should give my mom the money and ask her to pick me out two more but then again I won't be the one choosing the color, tail type or even able to see if it looks healthy... I dunno.. it's one thing to ask them to get community fish but it seems like a completely whole different matter with Bettas.


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## Sadist

I'm sorry for your loss, too. Liberty was special. I think it's much better to pick your own fish, too. Health and personality have to be good, and of course no one wants a color fish that they don't like either. 

Hubby suggested taking daughter out for dinner last night, so I used up the fish money with that. I probably left a bigger tip than needed, but the lady was very nice and even stuck extra cherries in my milk shake.


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## AccaliaJay

He was special.. did your daughter have fun? And I think it's nice to leave a big tip if the person was nice.


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## AccaliaJay

My mom said she's going to meijers tomorrow. Unfortunately I'm overloaded on chores and won't be able to go but I asked if I were to give her money would she get me two Bettas and she said if I gave her the money. I really have been interested in having other tail types rather than the common veiltail or crowntail I like the more long and flow tail types. I like rose tails especially. The women I gave guppy to said a few weeks ago they had a few. I couldn't get my mom to take me to go look. As far as colors go I think the only ones I don't like are the ones that have like massively crazy coloring. I like the slightly plain but beautiful ones for example the Bettas that have crazy spots that range in colors but are like whiter. Thats just to crazy for me. If I remember someone on here wrote a post about how to pick out healthier Bettas. Like what to watch out for but I'm having trouble finding it. So I'm more worried about tail types and health rather than coloring when having her pick them out. Today I'll be working on getting dishes done and stapling cardboard to the back of my stand so my sister can't see my 30 gallon. Past week iv had the light off because when it's on she goes after it a whole lot more than when it's off. So the guppies haven't been getting their lighting or their filter for two days because iv been to busy to keep fixing my filter that she tears apart and drops inside the tank.


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## AccaliaJay

New male Bettas. I have no idea for names. Also have no idea which tank which should go in. Hmm..


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## Sadist

Well, the veil tail boy at least looks semi healthy. Hopefully, Spikey will warm up in whatever tank he gets. Good luck with them!


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## themamaj

AccaliaJay said:


> New male Bettas. I have no idea for names. Also have no idea w6hich tank which should go in. Hmm..[/QUOTE
> 
> Love the green coloration. Both beautiful boys!


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## Sadist

Hehe, I like Spikey at least as a nick name for the crown tail.


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## AccaliaJay

Best pics I could get of them in the tanks. Blue boy was first checking out the Anubis Nana. He poked around it for about two or three minutes before doing laps around the tank. He got Libertys tank. This morning he had a bubble nest. They both came right to the front of the tank to eat this morning but only ate like two bites before doing laps. The crowntail was so adventurous last night. The tank pic is what I did with his with what I had. My brothers girlfriend is borrowing some of my other fake plants plus my filter. She won't listen when I say she doesn't have to throw away her filter cartridge every month. So she's out of cartridges and both my mom and my filter takrs large ones while hers is medium. He seemed to like going through the tube though. So hopefully he enjoys that


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## themamaj

Is that the same crowntail you posted above that look more green tint? If so wow what a difference! Like Spikey as nickname too. Your blue boy looks like my boy "Blue" (creative name right?!). He looks like a Sapphire. So pretty


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## Sadist

I read the actual box for a filter that uses cartridges. The box advertised that the plastic holding the cartridge in is what grows the bacteria, so you change the cartridge out to refresh the carbon in it. I think you are supposed to change carbon out regularly if you use it, but I keep the same cartridges in for the flossy stuff on it.

I went betta shopping for Mrs. Fish's tank. It's the one on my desk, and I get lonely expecting someone to be there. There weren't any salamander ee geno fish. A light colored grizzle crowntail girl caught my eye and some black copper boys. The boys were labeled as dragon scale even though they weren't. I didn't have enough cash with me to afford those prices. I almost brought the girl home but was afraid she'd marble to totally blue and lose daughter's interest. There were two skinny, clamped red veil tail boys that really pulled my heartstrings. I should have brought one of them home, but I promised daughter a pink fish. So no new fish this week. There was also a metalic veil tail with pastel fins at veil tail pricing who seemed healthy and sturdy.

Cin-cin has gotten a few mm bigger and is coloring up quite nicely. Her fins are that deep orangey-red coloring, and her yellow scales are all iridescent turquoise now. The iridescence has spread into some of her caudal rays, too. I can't really get a good picture as she's very wiggly and begging for food. 

Sky has finally slowed down enough that she begs for food by flaring her fins (but not her gills) out and looking like a buzz saw shark.


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## themamaj

Haha love your description of Sky! Little buzz saw :grin2: Cin-cin just sounds so lovely. You really had a great find for one with those colors. Very unique! Sorry shopping didn't bring better luck today. A few stores around here get shipments on Thursdays. You could always check with your store to see when yours come it. Not sure where you are looking but PetSmart seems to carry more of the EE with the coloration you are looking for. I'll let you know if I see any wows around here.


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## Sadist

Thanks. I looked at both Petsmart and Petco. Petsmart had a turquoise ee geno, and Petco had a purple one. I usually see lots of salamander ones when I go, but I've been avoiding the stores so I don't get sad looking at all the bettas and foster cats (our petsmart has foster cats and on Saturdays has a bunch of the foster people bring more cats in). I'll go back on Friday or next week and see if any more shipments came in. Both stores had lots of fish, just not the type I was looking for. 

Sky's a hoot. She really looks like a buzz saw with her spikes sticking out everywhere. I'm really happy I found Cin-cin, too.

I forgot, I brought some oak leaves home from the playground this weekend. All the small tanks got one. I love fall, when I can bring dry oak leaves home and save $$ on IAL online.

I found my first gray hair on my head a few weeks ago. I was thinking of going blue, purple, and pink hair and cutting it super short. I'm trying to grow it out of a pixie cut into a bob right now, and it's really awkward looking.


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## themamaj

Oh to have 1 gray hair!!! So tell me more about oak leaves. Very interesting.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah that's the crowntail. I think it was the flash making him look green. He's really easy to get pictures of unlike the blue boy XD my mom was talking about how the females at meijers were really ugly and how the other males looked like the tails were I think she said something about them like hooking? At least that what she described and said the others weren't very active even after tapping on the cups. She said they had some with white but they just didn't seem healthy. I told her they were probably stressed. So yeah she tried to pick out the ones that looked healthiest. 

I was told to only throw out the cartridges once they started falling apart. I have to reorganize my fish area. Cords are tangled and all over so I need to know if I will be able to have a filter for the Bettas. Might have to start charging my phone somewhere else to fit them in. I swear I should have enough plugs I have two surge protectors over there that means 9 plugs needed for tanks. 8 plugs on one of them so I should have 5-7 for anything else like lamps,phones and laptops on the other one XD 

My mom looks like a skunk when she doesn't dye her hair for so long. It's kinda funny. And speaking of hair my hair is so thick and curly some hair ties pull on it and it just hurts however my mom gave me a ribbon hair accessory thing for Christmas and I decided to wrap it around a hair tie and I tied a bow it's actually really cute and it doesn't pull as bad. I might ask for more ribbons and do that with more hair ties.


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## Sadist

themamaj said:


> Oh to have 1 gray hair!!! So tell me more about oak leaves. Very interesting.


I'm in my 30's, so I'm allowed to only have 1 gray hair.

As I understand it, oak leaves release tannins and are safe for bettas just like IAL. Of course, you have to make sure they haven't been near pesticides and all that. They also have to be dried out all the way. They should probably be cleaned somehow, but I didn't do that with mine. I treat them like IAL, put one in the tank and take it out when it starts to decay. Oak leaves off the ground are also free for us Southern ladies.



AccaliaJay said:


> Yeah that's the crowntail. I think it was the flash making him look green. He's really easy to get pictures of unlike the blue boy XD my mom was talking about how the females at meijers were really ugly and how the other males looked like the tails were I think she said something about them like hooking? At least that what she described and said the others weren't very active even after tapping on the cups. She said they had some with white but they just didn't seem healthy. I told her they were probably stressed. So yeah she tried to pick out the ones that looked healthiest.
> 
> I was told to only throw out the cartridges once they started falling apart. I have to reorganize my fish area. Cords are tangled and all over so I need to know if I will be able to have a filter for the Bettas. Might have to start charging my phone somewhere else to fit them in. I swear I should have enough plugs I have two surge protectors over there that means 9 plugs needed for tanks. 8 plugs on one of them so I should have 5-7 for anything else like lamps,phones and laptops on the other one XD
> 
> My mom looks like a skunk when she doesn't dye her hair for so long. It's kinda funny. And speaking of hair my hair is so thick and curly some hair ties pull on it and it just hurts however my mom gave me a ribbon hair accessory thing for Christmas and I decided to wrap it around a hair tie and I tied a bow it's actually really cute and it doesn't pull as bad. I might ask for more ribbons and do that with more hair ties.


I'm glad your mom looked for healthy ones! I'm guessing the ones with hooks on their fins had curly fins from bad water and/or sitting all day on the bottom of the cup. Our walmart crowntails are usually like that.

I'm glad you found a ribbon for your hair! I used to use a ribbon instead of a headband as a kid. It was hard for me to tie the bow without pulling my hair, though.


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## MysticSky22301

Sadist said:


> I'm in my 30's, so I'm allowed to only have 1 gray hair.



I'm turning 25 this year and I have had grey/ white/ clear hairs since I was 12! I'm brunette so it's rather easy to tell the difference lol talk about stress causing early signs of aging! Lucky me I look about 16 ^^ 

I don't dare pick up Leaves out here too many pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers from the local farms surrounding 90% of the state lol! So I make orders from good sellers in Thailand and Indonesia


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah that's why I didn't like using the ribbon alone. It was tangling up while trying to tie it. It hurt XD. And I feel so bad for those bettas. Stuck in a cup all day. Our closest walmarts don't carry fish anymore I don't think.

Also mister blue and black is still working on his bubble nest going to suck once I reorganize plugs and use his filter. It will be destroyed. It looks pretty big to. I'll take a picture when its feeding time


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## BettaSplendid

Ack, I am getting lots of greys, anf "only" 34. Sometimes I henna my hair and they greys look like pretty highlights. Hah! Some good can come of them. 

Nothing more difficult than having an empty tank and not finding the right fish for it! Maybe Thursday.


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## Sadist

If I can't find anything, I'll just put Cin-cin in there and leave the little 2.5 for snails and shrimp. Oh, I could get shrimp again! Bettas are cheaper, though.


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## Sadist

Leaves for Aquaria (Full Article) | Details | Articles | TFH Magazine® Here's an article about leaves in the aquarium. It seems like many species of oak are safe for aquarium, but it's worth looking up information about it. It also mentions collecting clean-looking leaves away from polluted areas like roads, only dead leaves that have fallen off because of autumn, and make sure the leaf is properly dried out before adding it to the water.


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## Sadist

I wish I could find a marble progression picture with the coloring of that grizzle girl at Petco. I keep thinking about her and how she'd look nice in Mrs. Fish's tank. Mrs. Fish was very good at blending in the dark areas, and I was often frantically looking for dried fishy bodies around the area only to have her dash out flaring from a plant. I don't want a fish that turns all blue, though, since I'm trying to have a pink fish for daughter. The girl at petco has blotches of red on her fins and blue speckles on her scales. I'm not sure if she'll turn all blue or all red or what!


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## AccaliaJay

She must be part Cameleon XD


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## BettaSplendid

Hmm, well Antigua turned blue body with red fins. Maybe she would too?


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## Sadist

Hmm, I've never seen that! How awesome!

They should have new fish at Petsmart today. I think Thursday is when mine gets new fish. I'll look at both stores again. Walmart usually has unusual colors now, but not salamander. Maybe I'll check there in case. 

Right now, I'm starting coffee break late. It was really cool this morning, so our house is cold. Once I get warmed up, I'll head over. I wanted to pop in right when they opened, but I thought it was too cold outside to move a cup around. Maybe I'll bring a cooler and towel.


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## Sadist

I went too early; no one's gotten any shipments in yet. I should have waited until Friday or next week like I planned.


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## BettaSplendid

Did you ask when the shipments come? I do that too, bring a box with towels. 

Oh, and Twinkie came from Walmart, pink with blue eyes. Later he got plum colored spots.


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## Sadist

I did, and they said Thursdays but that the time of day was random. Our Walmart has had oranges and yellows for a while, and they used to have black ones. I should check them out, but I seem to have trouble keeping Walmart ones alive for a full life. I've had 6 months and 9 months.

Petco did have a pinkish salamander, but his tail was all chewed up. I didn't want to really deal with that. Petsmart had 3 turquoise ones, one had salamander fins. I didn't know how those would turn out. I should go check out Walmart during a non crowded time or just say it'll be Cin-cin's tank and be done with shopping


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## Sadist

Cornelius looks bloated :-( Little piggy guppies have no self control with food, and they pick all day at the plants in there, too. I did put a par-cooked lettuce leaf in there. I may have to get a pea out and hope Blackiechat doesn't eat any pieces.


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## Sadist

I went ahead and brought home the tail bitten guy. They didn't have any new fish at either store, and the walmart fish weren't what we're looking for. He was having some slight swim bladder issues at the store, so I went ahead and felt sorry for him and brought him home. Here he is acclimating temperatures. Bonus shot of the 10 gallon and Cin-cin colored up.


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## themamaj

Aww cute little guy. He will be really beautiful with a little fin tlc. Glad you got him! Cin-cin is just amazing. I think that is the prettiest female coloration I have seen! You have a great eye.


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## Sadist

She was just yellow with pink fins at the store! I'd never seen that coloration before. Hopefully, new boy will settle in nicely. He's exploring, now. Attacking random items, wedging himself into the plant tangles, hiding behind the oak leaf, fluttering around. He has a bit of blue iridescence on his fins that's coming in with the warm water. He seems more purpley than pink, but I think daughter will like him. Petsmart did have a salamander fin with turquoise body ee geno, but his eyes were cloudy. I don't have strong enough medicines for cloudy eye stuff, so I left him.


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## themamaj

Probably good move. I tend to avoid the cloudy eyes too. I wonder if your new boy will end up looking like Nimbus but with more pink/purple tones. He looks like he is loving exploring the plants. Is that hornwort in with Cin-cin? I wish I could get that to grow in my tank. Very pretty.


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## Sadist

Yes, Sky and TS's tank (now Cin-cin's) both got a bunch of hornwort. Those tanks are in the window and get full sunlight in the winter. So far, the hornwort is doing well in those tanks.

Daughter wants to name the new boy Mr. Tinkles. As in potty tinkles. Sigh. He does seem to enjoy all his plants, and I got him to eat a few mini pellets. I have some shrimps defrosting in the fridge for tomorrow. I'd rather name him Rainbow. He has all the rainbow colors that don't have yellow in them, plus the white of the clouds around it. White, red (maroonish), blue, purple (and a little bit of pink in there).

Princess just gave birth! to a piece of lettuce. Funny how it looks the same coming out as going in. I wish Cornelius would get himself cleaned out. I don't want to starve everyone in that tank to help him unbloat, silly boy. 

My two girls are still doing great. Sky is vicious as ever. Cin-cin is so intent on trying to swim through the glass that it takes her a while to realize I'm feeding her sometimes. *Feed me, Feed me!* _Swim-Swim-Swim!_ *I can't reach you through this hornwort!* _Whale-flop!_

Blackiechat just seems laid-back and not quite as bright. *Oh, boy, the food lady has food! Oh boy, I love food! I hope it's a bloodworm! Oh, boy, pellets! Yum! Oh, look, the orange thing with pinchers! Hello, orange thing with pinchers! Oh, look, pellets! Hey, guppies, that's my pellet!*


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## Sadist

Daughter named him Mr. Tinkles. I thought we were through with silly names when she came up with Cin-cin. He seems to like his oak leaf.


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## AccaliaJay

He's beautiful XD I'm still waiting for my good guppy breeding luck to rub off on others on here XD I wish it would. Someone needs to steal the curse.

Anyways I posted on here about name suggestions for my new boys and someone suggested the name Justice for the crown tail. I'm thinking it's perfect. Tribute to Liberty and yet it fits his colors so well. Now there's still the issue of the veiltail... 

Also I have good news I guess. My brother starts work tomorrow. His wife is off till Tuesday but he wants me to start babysitting for them so his wife doesn't have to quit her job. $50 a week flat rate apparently. I'm thinking of trying it for a few weeks. It would be mostly their 2 almost 3 year old most of the time with only a hour or two of all three kids on most days. Fridays would be the most cause the school does half days every Friday. I really want to do it for the money. I could start saving for a new laptop and all the things I need in general like ID and drivers license. I would also be able to get live plants from online after I open my own bank account and stuff. No more relying on my parents for buying stuff online and dealing with them having no money on their cards and stuff. I would just have to force myself not to buy stuff every week lol. Ugh would be a good chance to learn self control although that always goes flying out the window when I see fish tanks.. Probably get something new for a tank once a month. Let the rest pile up until I need a new pair of headphones. I really need wireless ones. Uhhh I'm rambling. I'm kinda excited yet I'm also dreading... I doooo noooott like babysitting his children. But it seems my only other job options are our local tavern or our grocery store because my parents know the owners. I do not like dishes. And let's face it I'm not very good with strange people either.. and my mom said even if I work for my brother is still have chores x.x I bet shed still give me dishes x.x blehhh


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## BettaSplendid

Oh! Mr. Tinkles is gorgeous! I think his tail will recover quickly and everyday you will be rewarded with enthusiastic EE fluttering like your own personal cheerleader. I think the main cat character on the movie Cats and Dogs was named Mr. Tinkles. 

And Cin Cin is aaaaaamazing. Very cool colors. She looks very happy too. 

Your description of Blackiechat made me laugh. I have some that aren't quite as bright as others too. The girls are always quick and on top of things. Antigua still hasn't figured out his reflection isn't another fish.


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## themamaj

What a cute little grumpy face! How about Rainbow Tinkles? Very cute. Yes I think you are right about name in cat movie. 

I got so excited when I read Princess gave birth and then burst in to laughter when saw her offspring was lettuce. Love it. Blackichat is a hoot. I loved your description.


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## Sadist

Mr. Tinkles (the name has stuck, >.<) has been eating very well. He seems amazed by his little 5 gallon tank. It really is heartening and saddening to see how excited they get about adequate living conditions. He flutters forward and interacts whenever someone comes into the room and is very interested and curious. He did get scared of the toothpick the first frozen feeding, but then he smelled the food and came back. Bite-sized shrimp! Delicious! I just fed him a little lunch, and he's looking up for more pellets, silly boy. 

Sky doesn't beach herself on the plants so much now, but now Cin-cin does. She's so eager, she can't wait for the food to reach her and leaps up or tries to swim through the tank wall. Silly girl. Gotta keep her water line a bit lowered, but I do that with that tank with the lid off during the day, anyway.


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## Sadist

Mr. Tinkles keeps coming over to beg for food. It looks like he's coming to see my finger, then he looks up at the water surface over and over. Like a cat who meows and brings you to the food bag, then paws at it if you don't get new food out.


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## themamaj

Too cute! Glad to hear everyone doing so well. Love their personalities and how quick they have become interactive!

Have you all had much effect from the wild fires around. Some days it has been really bad air quality here. We really need some rain. Grandson and I played Indians this weekend. We made a rain stick and a drum. I was teasing him we needed to do the rain dance. He said oh that is too embarassing. lol


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## Sadist

It looks like fog all day here when the wind blows wrong. The wind also seems to blow differently at night, so the fires spread all over the place for a while. I haven't looked up recent news on it. Also, my aunt in Georgia is still evacuated from her home because of smoke. They got the all clear to go home, but the smoke was too thick still. We do need some rain. I used to have a rain stick; maybe I'll dig through the closets and find it.

I do have a little tank bad news. The cooler weather has dropped some of the temperatures down lower than I'd like. Mr. Tinkle's tank is at 74, and the window tanks were 70 when I took the blanket off this morning. Running the space heater :-/ We ran the fireplace for a bit last night and this morning, but it doesn't really wrap around to the fish room very well. It heats up the room with the thermostat, so the heater doesn't come on. Hubby likes saving money that way, but then I have to run space heater and turn up all the tank heaters to max temperature. The fish don't seem overly bothered by it, though Sky has been flaring at me a lot.


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## themamaj

What type tank heater do have and wattage? I wonder if putting in a higher wattage heater might help stabilize night time temps. Other idea might be an electric blanket if have one.


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## Sadist

Fish room in the 50's at night, so there's not much I can safely do to keep the temperatures in the tanks near 80. I do put a wool blanket over the window tanks, as they're closer to the cold. Sky's tank has a 25 watt adjustable and another not adjustable one. I don't think I've messed with the temps on all the adjustable ones yet, so putting those on max temp will help. The temp actually drops a little after I take off blanket. Oops, there goes alarm to go pick up daughter. I have to set one, so I don't lose track of time!


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## BettaSplendid

Petsupplyplus has their own brand of adjustable heaters. They are a good price and in my experience work really well. I bet a 50 or 100 watt would make all the difference and you wouldn't need the space heater on as high, which should be cheaper... and less obvious to the hubs, LOL. My house can get pretty cool at night too. I like to see cozy fish though.


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## Sadist

I was just afraid of overheating. I do have a 100 watt in the 10 gallon that does well. I'll look into something like that, see if I can sneak an online order in. We don't have a Petsupplyplus, and the local chain stores are really overpriced when it comes to heaters.


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## themamaj

BettaSplendid said:


> Petsupplyplus has their own brand of adjustable heaters. They are a good price and in my experience work really well. I bet a 50 or 100 watt would make all the difference and you wouldn't need the space heater on as high, which should be cheaper... and less obvious to the hubs, LOL. My house can get pretty cool at night too. I like to see cozy fish though.


May have to check into that. Still need about 3 more heaters myself.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> I was just afraid of overheating. I do have a 100 watt in the 10 gallon that does well. I'll look into something like that, see if I can sneak an online order in. We don't have a Petsupplyplus, and the local chain stores are really overpriced when it comes to heaters.


Suprised not one around. We have 3 stores locally. Understanding overheat concern. I do use higher wattage heaters in some of my tanks. So far haven't had any issues with adjustable heaters. Can always set lower if temps getting too high.


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## Sadist

I have problems with the hydor one overheating in the summer. I can turn it to the lowest setting and have it overheat a 5 gallon tank. It works well in the winter, though, as it heats that water up really nicely 

I had a weird dream about Mrs. Fish. In my dream, after a water change, she turned purple and blue instead of just blue. Come on, brain, the purple fish is a different one!


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## themamaj

You changed your avatar! Love it!!!!!!!! Great picture 😊

I got one of PSS heaters today. On sale $15 so thought try it. Funny on hydors. Mine hold steady but except do turn everything down anyway in summer. Balmy ET at 64 today. Nuts!! Slight chance of rain weekend. Sure hope we get some. 

My crazy dog which is about 60 lbs now is sitting *on* *top* of my shoulders while typing. No concept of personal space!!


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## Sadist

Silly pup! You are pack, therefore must be close. Touching. I will sit on you!

I hope we get rain, too! Daughter's eczema going crazy with all the dry weather. No one's sinuses are happy with everything, either. Daughter's school has had indoor recess all week because of smoke. I guess her school is more strict about air quality than others. She has all next week off for Thanksgiving break, so I'm trying to plan a few days of something fun to go with the days of relaxing and enjoying ourselves at home.

Sky is turning surly in her old age. Flares at me and each piece of food during meal times.

Cin-cin is still such a piggy, hard to get her to see the food because she's trying to swim through the glass at me. She hasn't been beaching herself lately, though. She's a healthier weight than when I got her.

Mr. Tinkles still very fluttery and begs for food when someone comes in. Flutters around to get attention, then goes to open area in canopy and looks at me, looks at top of water, back and forth. I can't even show him objects, he just goes over to beg for food, silly boy!

Ottos have been more out and about lately. I wonder if there's an orange tank tromping through their usual day places.

Guppies and Blackiechat still doing well. Cornelius got over his bloat but is still a little porker. He and Princess just manage to dart around more quickly than Blackiechat. Blackiechat's weight is good, but he never gets that full look like the rest of the fish do.


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## Sadist

I found Tigress in mid molt not hiding very well. Frantically throwing food at the fish, so they don't notice. Hopefully, they'll be too stuffed to bother her while she's soft (or too afraid from previous encounters) but not get sick from the extra meal. 

Picking up daughter soon. They have Thanksgiving program and early dismissal tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to that. Daughter super nervous to the point of facial tics. Hopefully, over the years of doing plays on stage in her school, she will stop with the stage fright. School says most of the kids have 0 stage fright by fifth grade there!

Good and bad news -- a previous graduate from the school who was awaiting heart transplant got his donor heart today and is in surgery. I'd appreciate if people throw some thoughts and prayers his way and for the donor's family.


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## AccaliaJay

Got back today from babysitting this week. Kids are awful x.x my nephew Aiden tried stealing my phone and taking it to school then got on it one night and when I asked if he did he lied about it. So guess what. I put a password on my phone. My niece Maddie does not listen at all.... And brynlee is a little smarty pants. One day I was making her a sandwich and she was like "wait I want pizza" and I was like "there is no pizza" and she did this really funny thing with stretching her arms out to the sides and rolled her head around and said "then buy some" it was really funny. An unfortunate problem arose though. My laptop is done for. Lenovo locked up the harddrive. So instead I'm having my brother build me a computer with the money he owes me for baby sitting. So within the next two months I should have one. It's small but supposed to be a beast. But I don't know if I'll survive 2 months with no laptop.


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## Sadist

Wow, what a week! I hope it smooths out.

My girls and boys seem to be doing fine. Good appetites. Tigress finally went into hiding. I thought she had molted wrong and was dead, but when I went to net her out, she swam around. Her claws looked off, but now she's hiding. I hope the hiding is good and she's doing well. I guess if the tank gets stinky, I gotta take everything apart and find her body.

Guppies have better body shapes this week. I've been feeding less food. 

Mr. Tinkles is super fluttery during feeding time. I pile his food in one of the clear spots. Today he was chasing up and down trying to chase the pellet that fell and wanting to eat the ones still on the surface. I had to laugh a bit.

Cin-Cin is her usual, silly self, though she seems to notice the food and start eating more quickly now.

Sky started leaping out of the water to get me again, silly girl. There's enough open area on the surface of her tank that she has to chase the pellets around and catch them. I hope it entertains her like live food!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol sounds fun. My mom said she's been feeding my fish while I'm gone.


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## Sadist

Cornelious seems to be on his last fin. Resting in the gravel and not eating. Not breathing hard, either. I'm not sure what to do with Princess. I don't really want to get more guppies to keep her company since I have trouble with them. Tigress seems to have molted weird. She moved around too much afterwards or something. Her claw arms are in a weird shape, now. Maybe they aren't done hardening and will look normal soon.

Everyone else is happy and healthy! Mr. Tinkles is a little rainbow flutter on my desk. He has really pretty eyes. The top part of the ring matches his head, and the bottom part is yellow like a wolf's eyes. Cin-cin's eyes are red, yellow and blue. I wonder if they're breeding for eye colors for the stores or if it's random.


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## Sadist

I've forgotten to post that I'd like everyone to send thoughts and prayers to everyone involved in the bus accident here. It was terrible, and a lot of lives were ruined.


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## themamaj

Yes Sadist. I saw a report on the news about that tonight. Prayers for families of all involved.


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## AccaliaJay

I got home today and I looked at the Bettas tanks and I started freaking out cause I couldn't see Justice then I caught sight of him laying in the mesh tube. I'm glad he seems to like it. I still have no name for the other boy. And I think I saw that that one it's so sad.


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## Sadist

Picture updates!

Cin-cin had just lunged upwards to see if I put more bloodworms in there.

Sky, extra full with blood worms.

Cornelius, all sick at the bottom. Tigress blur at the bottom of the heater.

Blackiechat, blurry and hard to see with the dark background. Also, Princess has adopted him. Tigress still curled in a blur around heater in back.

Mr. Tinkles looking all pretty in the morning light. Bonus Thanksgiving book daughter colored at school for me.


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## Sadist

Cornelius passed away early this morning, and I buried him in the bushes with the rest of the guppies. I'm not sure what to do with Princess. Some more girl guppies to keep her company? Rehome to someone who already has guppies?


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## BettaSplendid

That Cin Cin is one gorgeous female! 

So sorry about Cornelius. You had him such a long time, for a guppy. So hard to say what you should do. Girlfriends would be fun, if they live, sigh. Gup gups.


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## Sadist

Supposed to have 6 of them for social reasons, but I managed to keep Cornelius around with just a buddy for a year. I wonder if he would have lived longer with 6 instead of as a pair. Poor little guy. Maybe I'll try again when the ottos are all gone from old age. I've had those things forever, at least the ones that will eat supplements!

Thanks about Cin-cin! She's my bottomless pit. I was worried she wouldn't make it as skinny as she was at the store, but all those live foods in her tank got her up to speed pretty quickly. I think she ate them all, plus 80% of the pest snails! She also eats well at meal times.


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## AccaliaJay

Sorry for your loss Sadist. If you keep Princess there's still a chance for fry. But I would personally get 1 or 2 girls to be company. But if you don't want to keep her that's your choice to.


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## OrionPiscesLove

so I was trying to read this whole chat but I just couldn't what did sunset's fry turn out like???


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## themamaj

So sorry abput Cornelius! Sky looks so pretty! Love Cin-cin and Mr Tinkles. His names makes me snicker.


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## Sadist

AccaliaJay said:


> Sorry for your loss Sadist. If you keep Princess there's still a chance for fry. But I would personally get 1 or 2 girls to be company. But if you don't want to keep her that's your choice to.


So far, Princess has never given birth, or Blackiechat has managed to hunt down all of the fry. I do have sponge over the filter intake, so that's not an issue.



OrionPiscesLove said:


> so I was trying to read this whole chat but I just couldn't what did sunset's fry turn out like???


Cornelius is the only one that survived. I'll see if I can find a non blurry picture of him. He's orange and black with no spots.



themamaj said:


> So sorry abput Cornelius! Sky looks so pretty! Love Cin-cin and Mr Tinkles. His names makes me snicker.


Thanks! Kids can be so silly with names. She said his name is Mr. Tinkles because he tinkles a lot. Haha!


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## OrionPiscesLove

oh wow he turned out beautifully! I'm sorry he happened to pass recently!


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## AccaliaJay

Things change lol but blackie might be eating them most likely but like with what happened to me I had Liberty in with the guppies and it took a few months before suddenly we saw a fry. I do not miss that time. Libertys tank had quite a few fake plants I had to redecorate Everytime I found fry cause I always managed to mess it up. Then I finally decided to start a guppy tank lol. I really need to thin out my guppy count again I have about 2 adults and like 20-30 fry/juveniles. My brothers gf said she needs more females. I'm wondering if either one of my Bettas would mind a few male fry... If only this house was big enough for that 50 gal my mom's uncle Donny wants to give us. I would love to pawn off all my fry into there and let them stay there. I could always get a Betta to put in my 30 gallon and hope it thins them out but that would mean I would have to plan a community around the betta


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## Sadist

Hehe. I only have a 10 gallon, so it's good that I don't have too many fry. I would have thought to see fry by now, though. Maybe the bottom plant cover is too sparse. Java fern seems to be the only thing the gammarus shrimp won't munch into extinction when at the bottom. Everything else is floating, including something that needs root tabs. I should move that to Sky's tank.

Ugg, sorry for the ramblings. Daughter had cold all last week during break, and I seem to have caught it. I thought it was her loose tooth making her nose runny and didn't follow proper hand washing after helping her blow her nose.


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## Sadist

I brought home 5 guppy girls today and started a guppy sorority. Hopefully, much more peaceful than betta sorority  It's like I added fish gems into the tank, so colorful! Fingers crossed on having them all survive the week; that seems to mean they'll survive a long time for me. Added paraguard to dose instead of doing proper quarantine. Not smart, but I'm hoping they're as healthy as they look. They were all excited for mysis shrimp day. All the bettas were, too. The new pack of mysis shrimp has much larger shrimp than the old one. Different brands?

Oh, new girls' colors: 1 cellophane, 2 yellow, 1 red, 1 blue, and Princess is the black one twice the size as the rest. She seems eager to be around other girls.


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## BettaSplendid

So pretty! I like that, little gems. I called mine "gummi bears", yup, very colorful. They show up well against the dark gravel.


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## Sadist

Thanks! They all survived the night, and I had a surprise today. 5 ottos instead of 4! I'm not sure if they had babies or if one just managed to stay out of sight for the past 9 months. At some point, I did have 7, but some died to Mr. Fish, and some died to otto stupidity (tried to hide inside veggie clip and got stuck, had to just let veggies fall down by themselves after that).


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## AccaliaJay

So you guys know how I accepted babysitting job from my brother? Well yeah I'm about ready to have a break down and go hide and cry the money I'm making is definitely not worth this hell that I'm enduring. I thought it would get better but it's getting worse. But if I quit that means I won't have a computer or laptop.


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## Sadist

:-( Hang in there! It's why day cares are $150/week for small children.

All the guppy girls are still alive and swimming! They like the Omega One mini pellets. Just the right size for their tiny mouths. They get supplemented with the ottos' veggies and wafers.

I hope everyone else is doing well!


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## themamaj

So exciting to see new guppies! Beautiful colors. I hope they all do well for you.


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## AccaliaJay

I'm trying. I really wish I could refuse to babysit on the days I'm supposed to have off x.x today is supposed to be 8-5pm and tomorrow I was supposed to have off but apparently I have to babysit because Becky's work has a Christmas party that she and Richie have to go to. I swear it's like iv only had one time where I got saturday-monday off like I was supposed to. I sat at the table last night crying for an half hour from the stress. Even my mom said my brothers expected to much from me for the little hes paying cause he expects me to be a babysitter, dog sitter and a maid. And as I guessed I got paid $70 this week. Yesterday I had to babysit their three year old from 8am- 9pm and their two older kids from 4pm-9pm it was aweful. It wouldn't be so bad if Maddie listened, I didn't have wash dishes every time I needed to cook or if Richie would stop yelling at me for stuff that's not my fault or in my control when he does get home.


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## Sadist

3 year olds have problems listening and need someone to follow them around and be with them constantly, which means not getting housework done. I feel your pain.


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## AccaliaJay

The three year old is the least problem.. it's mainly the five year old. If she's not getting anything out of working she won't do anything.


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## Sadist

:-( I think you aren't getting paid enough. Daycare/school for three year olds is around $180/week per kid, $150 for half days here. 5 year olds, if they missed kindergarten cut off are about the same (pre-K classes). They do well in the classroom and learn how to follow directions because most of the kids around them are doing so, and the teacher will hold back rewards for kids who don't follow instructions (causing the kids to do their own punishments/shaming on each other until they're all in line). With just 2 kids at home, it's harder to get that feeling. It's hard to also form lesson plans or organize any activities to keep them occupied, too. I don't know how the moms that have activities planned all the time do it. They tell me they do it when the kid's asleep, but I was so worn out that I slept when mine did!


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## AccaliaJay

My mom agrees with you that I'm not being paid enough. Ive decided to give a two weeks notice tonight after they get back from their Christmas party for Becky's work. I don't think I'll survive the two weeks though. It's not just the kids anymore. Yesterday when I told my brother about crying at the table from stress the day before. He yelled at the kids, sent them to their rooms. Then proceeded to tell me I either needed thicker skin or professional help if I cried from the stress of his kids. And that's not all. He's always been yelling at me like because Becky's message asking me to clean out the fridge didn't come through until she got home. Or because pull ups run out because they only buy one pack of 19 every time their close to running out instead of two to last atleast a week. Brynlee (3 year old) is not even trying to use the toilet. And Maddie wets the bed at night so they have her using a pullup at night. Then he complains when I don't do laundry or dishes unless it's the ones I need to cook. and for the past month iv been trying to help the girls clean their room so Richie could take Maddies (5 year old) bedframe apart cause they broke it and it's a danger hazard with nails sticking out the back of it. And he kept putting it off even though I took the box spring off of it and leaned it in the closet. Then he complained about he girls toybox being in the hallway so I had brynlee clean the closet and I moved the box spring over to the only other wall area and put the toybox back and without even thinking about it they sent the kids to bed without even going to look because they didn't think hey the toy box is gone maybe I should check on the room progress. And brynlee managed to knock it over and it woke Maddie up. So I got yelled at and I had to carry it out onto the porch which im suprised Richie hasn't complained about it blocking the wood pile because their porch to is also trashed. And this is only what's happened this past week. Must I even add what happened the other weeks? 

Even my mom and my friends said I'm supposed to be paid for babysitting. Not dog sitting. Not being a maid. Not inventory checker or even a slave because even when hey are home I still help them with chores or getting the kids in bed.

Also incredibly sorry for spamming this chat with rants. But this is also affecting my care for my animals. I don't even remember when the last time I gravel vacuumed and or did water changes in my tanks because not only do I only get 1 or 2 days a week off unlike the 3-4 I was told I also end up having a large pile of chores at home to do because my mom's tired of it only being her and rarely my brothers girlfriend there to clean. Which I also learned the chores my mom's been giving me are cake walks compared to babysitting these demons. I'm done. And I feel alot better lol


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## AccaliaJay

So I quit last night. Their kids wouldn't listen and one of their dogs chewed up my phone charger. I kinda hope the dog got a shock cause it was plugged in to. But yay no more stress.


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## Sadist

I'm sorry you had to go through with that. Everyone gets a job at some point that causes bad stress like that. Hopefully, this will be your worst and can only go up from there. And remember, even at a small family restaurant, you might be able to make that much in tips every one or two nights working. The waitresses also have chores (clean soda machine on Tuesday, scrub outside of bread warmer on Wednesday, that sort of thing), but the extra money can be worth it, especially for a 4-6 hour shift. Then, you could pay for things you need for your fish, find a cheap car, pay for your electronics, etc.

Everyone needs to rant every once in a while! Don't worry about it.

My little jewels are still doing well. Blackiechat still minding his manners. I had a nightmare that he turned into Mr. Fish and killed all the ottos and guppies, but thankfully it wasn't true when I got up in the morning.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah thanks. I think I'll stick with chores for now until a job more suited to me comes along such as something with animals or books. Glad your fish are okay. My tank is down to 2/3 water so I have to add water to the tanks since our Woodstove seems to be evaporating it out. And I've had dreams as scary as that lol they make you hope it is a dream and not a future prediction XD


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## Sadist

Poor Mr. Fish had to be put down when I grew a tumor on his face that interfered with eating. It wasn't long after he had to be moved out of the 10 gallon for killing some ottos. In my dream, Blackiechat changed to look like Mr. Fish, so weird. I know I'm dreaming with Sci Fi dreams and can do cool stuff, but when I dream about my family and pets, I can't figure things out and just panic.


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## ShadeSlayer

AccaliaJay said:


> My mom agrees with you that I'm not being paid enough. Ive decided to give a two weeks notice tonight after they get back from their Christmas party for Becky's work. I don't think I'll survive the two weeks though. It's not just the kids anymore. Yesterday when I told my brother about crying at the table from stress the day before. He yelled at the kids, sent them to their rooms. Then proceeded to tell me I either needed thicker skin or professional help if I cried from the stress of his kids. And that's not all. He's always been yelling at me like because Becky's message asking me to clean out the fridge didn't come through until she got home. Or because pull ups run out because they only buy one pack of 19 every time their close to running out instead of two to last atleast a week. Brynlee (3 year old) is not even trying to use the toilet. And Maddie wets the bed at night so they have her using a pullup at night. Then he complains when I don't do laundry or dishes unless it's the ones I need to cook. and for the past month iv been trying to help the girls clean their room so Richie could take Maddies (5 year old) bedframe apart cause they broke it and it's a danger hazard with nails sticking out the back of it. And he kept putting it off even though I took the box spring off of it and leaned it in the closet. Then he complained about he girls toybox being in the hallway so I had brynlee clean the closet and I moved the box spring over to the only other wall area and put the toybox back and without even thinking about it they sent the kids to bed without even going to look because they didn't think hey the toy box is gone maybe I should check on the room progress. And brynlee managed to knock it over and it woke Maddie up. So I got yelled at and I had to carry it out onto the porch which im suprised Richie hasn't complained about it blocking the wood pile because their porch to is also trashed. And this is only what's happened this past week. Must I even add what happened the other weeks?
> 
> Even my mom and my friends said I'm supposed to be paid for babysitting. Not dog sitting. Not being a maid. Not inventory checker or even a slave because even when hey are home I still help them with chores or getting the kids in bed.
> 
> Also incredibly sorry for spamming this chat with rants. But this is also affecting my care for my animals. I don't even remember when the last time I gravel vacuumed and or did water changes in my tanks because not only do I only get 1 or 2 days a week off unlike the 3-4 I was told I also end up having a large pile of chores at home to do because my mom's tired of it only being her and rarely my brothers girlfriend there to clean. Which I also learned the chores my mom's been giving me are cake walks compared to babysitting these demons. I'm done. And I feel alot better lol


Gosh I'm so sorry sweetheart. I wish I could do someting for you. Hang in there.


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## Sadist

I'd appreciate some prayers and well wishes for my sister in law. She just delivered 2 months early, 3 lbs 2 oz while sick in the hospital. Baby is in ICU breathing on his own so far, so I have hope he'll make it.


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## themamaj

Will be praying for your sil and little boy. I am former NICU nurse. 3 lbs 2oz is a good weight. Was baby about 32 weeks? He should be in hospital a little while but I would expect him to do fine. Keep us posted.


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## AccaliaJay

Hope he does well Sadist. Must be hard. 

Thanks ShadeSlayer but I had quit on the 10th. Funny thing is he keeps trying to make me feel bad and keeps telling my other brother and dad about how I should be apologizing and start babysitting soon. I'm about to start opening my mouth and telling him what I really think. I might actually do that. I don't swear very often in person because my parents were the soap in your mouth type for cussing so I won't swear Infront of family but he's pushing me to the edge of flat out telling him what I think. He won't like what I have to say. And yes I'm sorry for ditching them without giving them time to find a new babysitter but I could not do it anymore. It's not worth it at all. I asked my brother every few days to take out his daughters bed frame for the whole time I was babysitting. I ended up doing it the night I quit when I got the girls to finish cleaning their room. Guess what I found while sweeping? Several staples from the bed frame. And Maddie found glass from a mirror they broke that used to be in their garbage bin before I started babysitting.


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## Sadist

Ugg, what a mess with them!

MammaJ, I was just told she's 7 months along and not the week. I just found out she's pregnant, or I somehow forgot if someone told me during the summer. I thought the weight was hopeful, too. When I had issues, they were reassuring me that baby was 1 pound in there and had a good chance to survive if I went into labor. MiL sent a picture of him, and he looks good. He's got lots of tubes and patches and stuff, but he doesn't look like a little limp doll like some early babies do.

Bad news: Sky didn't make it through the night. I couldn't find her for feeding time, and then Cin-Cin spotted her in the corner and was trying to swim through the air to see who she is. Daughter picked a nice place to bury her in the garden. I think I'll catch some pest snails to put in there, keep the cycle going through the winter. I just added a third heater last night, which raised the temp 5 degrees. I wonder if it's leaking or something. Poor girl, even with the space heater and 2 heaters in the tank, it was just too cold. I think it's likely all the cold days killed her, poor baby. I did bring her home as a petco baby, which also shortened her life sitting in that cup for however long she was there.


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## Sadist

More news on SiL and nephew: baby's still doing fine. She was only 29 weeks along, so he's big and well-developed for his age. SiL is still sick, and they can't figure out what it is. She's not getting rest because of the illness, and they haven't figured out if it's bacterial (and can give anti-biotics) or viral. Her 2 other sisters are watching their 5 year old, and she's doing well.

I've found that Mr. Tinkle's filter is acting up again. I think I'm just going to move Cin-cin and all her plants and heater to Sky's tank and move the filter in that tank to Mr. Tinkle's and discontinue the 2.5. Maybe keep it around as an emergency hospital tank but keep it dry in the closet until it's needed.


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## AccaliaJay

It's good that the baby's doing well. And so sorry about Sky.


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## OrionPiscesLove

sorry about sky!

I got my 10 gallon community tank! 12 neon tetra juveniles, and 4 beautiful guppies! I'm going to add my beautiful Crowntail Virgo in the morning, at the moment he is in a betta cup in the tank adjusting to the new tank-mates. so far no flaring or charging! he sorta just sits there or swims in circles (What else can he do xD )


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## themamaj

Beautiful guppies. Never thought about them and neons. Good luck w new betta. He is a beauty.


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## OrionPiscesLove

He's killed two neons and keeps going after them so I had to put him back into the 1 gallon. now he's depressed. :/


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## AccaliaJay

I think you need more plants and decor. It would probably help. 

I've decided to get a betta for my 30 gallon guppy tank. Hoping it will decrease my fry survival rate lol. I'm also thinking corys or otos probably Cory's unless our local meijers don't have them. But who knows. I redid my tank today.


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## fernielou

Bikini bottom! You need a squid ward head or krusty krab for Christmas 


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## OrionPiscesLove

Yeah, I'm planning on getting more plants and hiding spots, but I'm planning on getting a HM dumbo soon and hopefully he'll be able to go in with these guys so I can have two community tanks eventually!


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## AccaliaJay

XD my brother got me sponge Bob's pineapple for last Christmas. I sorta dropped it after a few weeks and one of the pineapple points broke. I'm hoping a new betta will like having two hide spots and not try killing any other fish I get today. 

I sorta made my mom angry with this year's Christmas list. I probably won't be getting much. Long story short. I only really had Laptop or tablet, headphones, fish tank stuff, hoodie and a new pillow on my list. I thought since my parents stole my TV that they got me for my birthday last year and refuse to give it back I could get a laptop even if it was my only Christmas and bday present (my bday is Jan 1st) I would have been happy if it were a older laptop from the pawnshop because I have better luck with fixing those. But my dad refused the laptop idea and even said I probably won't be getting a tablet either(which I wanted one so I could have a keyboard and write my stories cause do you know how frustrating it is to write stories on a phone? Extremely frustrating and thumb killing). And my mom said she didn't get me some of the other stuff on my list so I have like a massive looming depression. I really miss mmds and making models. Writing, making mmds and models are really the only fun thing I can do since I have like no irl friends or even a job because living in the country you either need to have a driver license and a car or you have to know people and have a family that are willing to help you with that stuff. And I have none. 

If your wondering here this is a model me and my online friends put together for one of my best guy online friends. He's already got 14 downloads and I have great ideas for more models but no laptop. The ideas are literally driving me insane.. curse my overactive imagination...

(~MMD~) Kyoshiro Model Download by PhantomArtistry2514 on DeviantArt


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## Sadist

Wow, schools here make kids have tablets for their homework. It feels strange for you not to have one! I'm sorry for all your troubles. I had similar problems, and then my dad just kicked me out, which forced me to get a job on my own. Hang in there!


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## AccaliaJay

Trying right now sitting in the van outside meijers with my sister while my mom shops for tonight and Christmas dinner and she's supposed to be getting me the fish I asked for. Hopefully she does. It's the only reason why I'm not complaining.


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## AccaliaJay

So I think meijers set me up for disaster lol 2 female Bettas, two Cory's, 1 really freaking tiny neon tetra because I told my mom I was thinking about some and 1 unknown snail. Let's hope the bettas dont fight or else one might end up in a tiny fish bowl or my brothers girlfriends glofish and guppy tank x.x I'll probably end up having my mom get more next time we come apparently it was all they had left from their Tuesday shipment.


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## AccaliaJay

I need names for the bettas. I named the lone neon tetra Flash lol until I give him some buddies next time we go to Meijers. The Cory's seem fine and a little more swimmy then I always thought they would be. I thought they would be like extremely laid back.

The only thing I see is sometimes the darker female betta she'll like slowly swim up to the other betta and then like push her out of the way if she doesn't move. But that's not like a massive worry right? She's not charging or poking. Their staying close to the top and corners. I also found out a little snail came attached to the bigger snail I got for my brothers girlfriend. I still don't know what it is. Anyone know? The little one had the same shape shell but it wasn't colored like the big on it looked clear which is why I probably cannot find it lol. If I had to guess..... Mystery snail maybe? I'm not positive


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## fernielou

That's a mystery snail - cool freebie!


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## AccaliaJay

Lol right it was so tiny I still don't know where it's at. Guess I'll probably find out if it grows up in my 30 gallon. Both female bettas are still fine. Managed to get less crappy pictures even if their still crappy.


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## OrionPiscesLove

I separated my betta from my community but my neons kept dying now I only have 5 left all of these ones are healthy the rest had something wrong with them. and my prettiest guppies mysteriously died this morning. thing is what's left of my fish act completely healthy while the rest that died all acted a tad bit slow and quickly lost color then they couldn't swim and then they would just die.


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## AccaliaJay

I thought I saw the tiny snail on the heater last night but I had to go sit and watch my sister so I didn't get to confirm it. My mom paid $15 for a fake plant. My dad said it looks like my hair its a biorb sea lily definitely going in the 30 gallon for fry and stuff. However I also got a Java fern and mini moss. I'm pretty sure I'll add the Java fern to my blue male bettas tank but I'm torn between the moss. Wouldn't it be best for the 30gal for baby's and shrimp? 


Orion Pisces love maybe the betta carried over some disease? That or it stressed them out if it chased after them?


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## OrionPiscesLove

no because two of my bettas in other tanks that had never come in contact just died too! I'm starting to think it was just New tank sundrome because I just moved all the fish to new tanks and I always do a fish-in cycle.


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## AccaliaJay

Have you checked your water?


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## OrionPiscesLove

no I'm getting a water test kit in january but I know it wasn't too much ammonia as they'd only been in their new tanks for 4 days. eqeach tank where fish died was either a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon where my betta in his 3 gallon is 100% fine!


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## AccaliaJay

No I mean like the water you use to fill the tanks. It's odd how so many would die just from new tanks. I've never had any fish die from actually just being in a new tank. They all had something wrong.


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## OrionPiscesLove

well my pisces has lived in the same water with the same things and hasn't had a single problem he's been in for 3 months. it's rare for fish to die from new tanks but it's when you do a fish-in cycle wile the ammonia and nitrites + nitrates are leveling out it often times will kill sensitive fish.


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## Sadist

+1 OrionPiscesLove during the fish-in cycle, the ammonia can get high enough in that amount of time to kill fish, even something as hardy as a betta. Hopefully, your test kit will help you monitor that sort of thing when it comes in, and you'll have less problems.

My fish are mostly doing well. I successfully moved Cin-Cin to Sky's old tank along with the plants, but I haven't had time to move her old filter over to Mr. Tinkle's tank. So far, his plants are keeping the water quality in check, but I'd really like to have a filter in there to keep the water moving, too.

I haven't heard from SiL for a few days, but on Christmas her progress started going backwards. Her baby is still doing as well as a baby that early can, but SiL not doing great.


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## BettaSplendid

It is amazing bettas last as long as they do in those nasty little cups and then go downhill once in a bigger tank. I do not understand. 

Poor SIL! They still don't know what is making her sick?


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## Sadist

They know what it is, but results are better when you catch it right away. She'd had symptoms for several days before calling the nurse and going to the hospital, then it took several more days to diagnose it. My latest news was Christmas day, so I'm not sure what's going on today. Maybe she's gotten better. It's the kind of thing where they have to do surgery to fix if you don't catch it in time for medicine.


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## themamaj

Hope SIL does better. Glad to hear baby doing ok.

On new tanks or new fish added to community i use Stability and that helps a lot qith new tank syndrome.


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## Sadist

Newest news is SiL on the mend and baby breathing with just a cpap right now. I'm relieved!


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## BettaSplendid

I am so glad to hear that!


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## Sadist

A picture of Blackiechat and his guppy harem blur. They had blood worms for dinner last night and breakfast this morning, so they were extra excited to see me! Sorry about the glare! It's hard to get a good picture in that corner with the way the lights are.


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## MysticSky22301

I'm glad everyone is ok!


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## Sadist

Oh, MysticSky, your froggy avatar is so cute!


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## BettaSplendid

Oh I love their tank! I like the little rock piles. The crayfish is in there, right? 

Do the gups flirt with Blackiechat?


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## Sadist

Daughter with a Christmas present. I should have had BettaSplendid come nest my house when she was pregnant ;-)


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## ShadeSlayer

Getting more guppies soon- do you have girls at the moment, @Sadist ? I never have good luck keeping the females for more than a month while the males last for years.


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## themamaj

Sadist said:


> Oh, MysticSky, your froggy avatar is so cute!


I was thinking the same thing! Love little froggy


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## Sadist

ShadeSlayer said:


> Getting more guppies soon- do you have girls at the moment, @Sadist ? I never have good luck keeping the females for more than a month while the males last for years.


I do have girls, and they're doing awesome with no boys in there at all. Their social system isn't messed up with pregnancy and constant come-ons from males. I had terrible luck with females before my last male died. I think a lot of the problem with them was pregnancy and the added stress of males propositioning them all the time.


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## fernielou

@Sadist I just got a job as a labor and delivery nurse so I'm very curious about your Sil and the baby. Hoping all is well! Glad it seems to be improving 


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## BettaSplendid

Oooo... What a neat present. Is she tracing hairstyles? It looks like something Daughter would like too! And ah, I clean but within a day the house is trashed again. lol


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## Sadist

fernielou said:


> @Sadist I just got a job as a labor and delivery nurse so I'm very curious about your Sil and the baby. Hoping all is well! Glad it seems to be improving
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She had some sort of horrible intestine bacteria usually only found in retirement nursing homes. She was cramping from the intestine stuff and in the bathroom so much that they didn't notice she was in labor. She delivered the baby by herself in the bathroom. It took a while for the medicine to help her because she had the infection so long before they started. Thankfully, baby was big and strong for how far along she was when he was born!



BettaSplendid said:


> Oooo... What a neat present. Is she tracing hairstyles? It looks like something Daughter would like too! And ah, I clean but within a day the house is trashed again. lol


She is! It has a person and a horse to trace, and you're supposed to pick one hairstyle to put on them and some clothes (horse also has armor, unicorn horn, and wings to choose from). She started out by tracing the hairstyle page by itself  It's super fun! I wish I'd had that as a kiddo.


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## fernielou

Ohhh...sounds like C Diff? If so, that stuff is scary. Alcohol won't kill it..only soap and water. It can live outside the body some crazy amount of time...I think 72 days? and you need bleach to kill it. So as you can imagine, it's easy to transmit. Wash your hands in soap and water really well if you go over there and esp if you change a diaper just in case


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## themamaj

Daughter is so cute! What a fun present.


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## Sadist

They won't release SiL from the hospital until the infection is cleared (it is C diff). She doesn't live in town, and we have the kiddo. They won't let kids in to see her or the baby, so we've just been in contact with MiL to know how she is doing. Baby is still in incubator for several more weeks, too, but he's doing as well as he can. 

Thanks for all the well-wishes and prayers!


----------



## AccaliaJay

So last thursday my mom told me justice wasnt acting right he didn't move from the corner for a few hours. I wasnt home so she had messaged me and told me she thought he dead then minutes later she said he moved. I though maybe he was sleeping or resting or something but when I got home he just wasn't active at all.. I thought maybe he could see the other betta now since I had took out most of his plants and I stuck a plastic bag between the tanks and it I started turning the lights off at night. So two days ago I turned off the lights after feeding them and decided to skip yesterday's feedings seeing as I was busy cleaning all day and tonight I go to feed them and justices light wouldnt turn on and he's dead.. a huge massive bummer.. so I think I'm going to call it quits on that 5 gallon tank. Lights done for. So down to a 5 gallon and a 30 gallon.


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## Sadist

:-( I'm so sorry. Maybe you can sell the tank (minus lights) as a kit and make some money at least.


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## AccaliaJay

I dunno 5 gallons and less dont really sell all that well up here. I asked my mom if she would sell it and she said I should keep it x.x my house is to dark to have a tank without lights. The only good it can do is to store all my unused tank stuff. I have like two or three unused heaters that had come with the 30 gallon and quite a few tank maintenance stuff to clear the water. Maybe I'll ask my brothers girlfriend if her brother wants it. He has a betta I think. He also has crayfish (He catches his from out here apparently) I should ask to see a picture. I'm curious to what they look like. Anyways. The female bettas haven't killed each other yet. One Cory has died. That unknown baby snail isn't so tiny anymore it's like almost as big as a dime and I'm not sure it's a mystery snail anymore. The shell seems to be pointed in back rather than side. And the shell was a really weird ugly color. I saw it last night and watched it slide its way from the the front of the tank to the from around the sides. It was pretty fast to. Next time I see it I'll try getting a picture.. I plan on getting more neon tetras for sure though. Little flash alone is an interesting little guy/girl. So iffy on the cories. I dunno anymore on them. Also if anything I think my adult female guppy is a bit more well in your face then the bettas are she's like rubbing and swimming next to one of the female bettas it's weird..


----------



## Sadist

Car battery died over the weekend. Just got a new one. It was interesting trying to juggle the one truck with the whole family all weekend and yesterday  It was bloodworm day today, so everyone was excited to see me at breakfast. Also making crock pot chili because have swimming after school. They often have extra homework on Tuesdays, too, so I'm glad I was able to get my car fixed and not have to juggle picking hubby up from work before or after swimming.


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## AccaliaJay

That sounds good Sadist XD


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## themamaj

Sorry about car. Yes that is extra challenging trying to balance schedules with one in shop. Our cars are high milage so seems like one in shop all the time.


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## ShadeSlayer

Ah car problems. Very familiar? Glad it's fixed tho.


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## Sadist

I haven't had to replace a battery in a car for 15 years. The price went up quite a bit.


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## Sadist

Cin-Cin passed away over night :-( I just couldn't keep the water warm enough there. Next year, I'll have to figure out something better to do. The plants really like the winter sunlight there, but even with a blanket and three heaters, it just couldn't keep the water up at the proper temperature. When I first added Cin-Cin and the heater from her old tank, it was warm enough. Maybe one of the heaters broke over the cold nights.


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## themamaj

Oh no. Im so sorry!


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## Sadist

Me, too. I really bond with my girl fish. I thought about moving the crayfish over, but it's probably too cold for her there, too. I guess I can throw some extra pond snails in for the rest of winter.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sadist said:


> Cin-Cin passed away over night :-( I just couldn't keep the water warm enough there. Next year, I'll have to figure out something better to do. The plants really like the winter sunlight there, but even with a blanket and three heaters, it just couldn't keep the water up at the proper temperature. When I first added Cin-Cin and the heater from her old tank, it was warm enough. Maybe one of the heaters broke over the cold nights.


I'm so sorry! :frown2: I have a older male too and Im worried abut him with the cold.


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## themamaj

Sadist I was pondering your colder tank. You know what might be great would be some white cloud minnows. They tend to like the cooler temps and I believe they are betta compatible so maybe as weather warms in Spring you could add a betta back to tank 😊


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## Sadist

I thought about cooler water fish, too, but the house is 80 in the summer. Summer lasts longer than winter here, so I decided to stick with tropical fish. We just picked a bad house for heating and AC. Even with two units, the high ceilings and large spaces make it too expensive to keep at a normal temperature all year.

Thank you everyone for the condolences, too.


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## themamaj

That is understandable. I know that is frustrating though. We have a couple of rooms that must be in a funny position related to the heat and air path. One stays really hot and other really cool even with air adjustments.


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## Sadist

The fish room is south-facing, so warm warm warm in the summer. The fireplace heat doesn't properly wrap around the stair way to get over here, though. So thermostat set to 56, fireplace on for a few hours to warm up the rest of the house to high 60's, but still need space heater in fish room for 65. Usually, the heaters can keep up if the room is 65, but something happened this year :-(


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## ShadeSlayer

have to tried putting towels over the tanks at night? I do and it seems to help.


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## Sadist

I had a wool blanket on it, and it seemed to help for a while. I forgot it one night, and after that I just couldn't get the tank warmed up. The only thing I didn't try was adding warm water because I was afraid of water shock.


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## Sadist

Just got a new router. 2.5 hours of customer service calls to various companies to find I missed one of the 50 billion wires plugged in the back of it and the switcher. Whew! I'm feeling a bit like an old lady after that. To make matters worse, daughter out of school early for the beginning of parent/teacher conference days, so she had to run around bored all afternoon while I worked on everything and kept telling her to be quiet so I could hear the person on the phone.


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## themamaj

Oh don't you love technology!


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## AccaliaJay

I'm getting frustrated with my mom's tank x.x the plecos poop clogs its filter up every day.


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## Sadist

They are known as poop machines. I think you're supposed to have a 150 gallon or bigger tank for those eventually.

Our old router didn't work through the air well, so we had all the extra wires running everywhere to physically connect things to it. I unplugged some things from the switch board that should have stayed there and had the new router directly plugged to the wall (no modems with our service, just the wall jack which has two wires coming from it). Well, it happens that both wall wires have to plug into the switch board for the tv to work, and then the router plugs into the switcher instead of the wall. I'm glad we were able to do everything over the phone and not have a guy come out at least.


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## AccaliaJay

Yeah well my mom won't get rid of him. She doesn't think anyone will take him. I told her she won't know till she tries.


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## ShadeSlayer

"You never know if you don't try"- P!ATD


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## AccaliaJay

Lol I think someone would like her pleco he's huge. Although they would have to come get it themselves because my mom's tank net isn't big enough for even half his body XD I really wish she would try. Heck if she wanted I'd get her another smaller pleco. It's just this guy is soo huge his poop makes the tank a mess fast. It clogs up the filter and I have to clean it out like everyday. I'm thinking I might take the filter cartridge out for a bit and put this sorta black thing that came in with the filter in there to catch the poop it will probably catch it and let water through more than the cartridge. Right now the filter cartridge isn't meant for the stand thing the black thing is on so can't have them both. Atleast try it for a few days then put the cartridge back in there for a while. I dunno gotta figure out a way so I'm not constantly being hounded by my mother to fix her filter because she won't do anything but feed them. And she completely ruined her water three days ago instead and pouring the algae wafers on her hand to get the right ammount she apparently just dumps them into the tank and like 10 of them dumped out. She failed to tell me and next thing I know the tank was so cloudy plus I had just fixed the filter so after stirring up the tank to get the string and excess poop that keeps building up the tank was so freaking cloudy I couldn't even see the freaking filter tubing to see if it was picking up x.x I told her to tell me the next time more than four dump out so I can net them. The algae wafers she's using are smaller than the bigger ones she used to use so instead of the one she has to do like 3-4. I don't think he likes them though he comes up to eat on flakes. It's kinda cool seeing him swim upside down to get the flakes.

Also I'm kinda depressed now my dad hadn't been home for like 3 days and we ran out of dog food and my mom didn't have the money to buy any and my brother Ryan wouldn't offer to buy any so I had to use my money to buy it. Heck one night he bought his dog a can of dog food and I had to feed our dogs a full bowl of leftovers from the fridge. He didn't even ask if we would like some for our dogs. And now I went from $44 to $9 which is only enough money for like one plant and I'm not even being paid back for it by either my brother or my mom. So I might as well forget going to PetSmart unless I ask my dad to buy the stuff I want and I'll pay him back when my brother Richie buys my computer parts from me for $120. Now I know how my dad feels buying dog food even though technically none of the dogs belong to him.


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## Sadist

It's hard for me to imagine the mindset of having a dog and not keeping food around for it. You did the right thing even if you lose all the money.

Shhh, don't tell hubby but I ordered some blue shrimp for the empty tank. Their temp range is okay for winter and summer temps both as long as it doesn't heat or cool off too quickly and shock them. The hornwort melted, and I'm thinking of just leaving the needles in there for them to hide in and pick on if the nitrates stay low enough.


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## AccaliaJay

My dad's always the one to buy dogfood but he hasn't been home. He said he has to go back up tomorrow but hopefully it'll be the last time for a while. And we have to have grain free dog food because my mom's dog Mia some reason started having seizures with other dog food. Our dogs once in a while will get like scraps or even like leftover gravy poured on their food. 

My mom's to scared to drive in the winter most days she managed to go that one day though since my brothers girlfriend was here to watch my sister and we needed food for dinner. My mom doent trust me to watch her by myself.


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## Sadist

My shrimp have been shipped out! Hoping they arrive when I'm alone on Friday to give them proper care. I was hoping they'd ship out on Monday and already be here.


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## AccaliaJay

Hope they arrive healthy and they stay healthy!


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## Sadist

Thanks! I've wanted blue shrimp since I knew they existed. I hope they really make the tank.


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## themamaj

Love blue shrimp! Cant wait to see pictures.


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## Sadist

They're on the delivery truck and out for delivery! Seems a bit earlier than I'd expect, especially since I never see any delivery trucks out before 0900.


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## Sadist

Well, of course they arrived while I was picking daughter up from school. There were two bags of juvies, really small. I released them a bit ago and will take pictures Monday when they've had the weekend. I think I'll look for some of those little shrimp tube things to give them extra hiding spots, too. I noticed the tank has a juvie ramshorn snail, too  I miss Ramsy.


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## themamaj

So exciting!


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## Sadist

They're hard to photograph, so tiny. Bonus picture of Ramsy. I did manage to get a picture of one hanging from the floating plants at the surface!


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## themamaj

Aww so tiny. Love blue color!


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## Sadist

Me, too. I got the lighter ones, which are cheaper. There's some sort of water bug in there, too. I keep trying to catch it and move it to the old 2.5 gallon, which still has gammarus shrimp in there. No heater or filter, but the little food shrimp are still doing fine. I loosely id'd the bug as something that eats small shrimp by pictures and activity (looks like an ambush hunter with camouflage).


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## BettaSplendid

Are those blue velvets from Aquatic Arts? Shrimp! That was the perfect solution for youf tank! Yes, they handle a wide temp range. The small ones ship better, so that is good.


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## Sadist

Yes, the sky blue velvets. They're a more washed out color than the others, but I still like them! A few died over the first two days, but the rest seem to be doing really well. I count 7 today that aren't hiding, so that's a real win. Some are bigger than others, so there's a chance of males and females. I guess we'll see when they mature.


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## ThatFishThough

@Sadist, could the "ambusher" be a dragonfly larva or something of the type?


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## Sadist

It's not a larvae. It looks somewhat like this. I think I managed to net it and put it in the tank that just has food shrimp in it.


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## Sadist

What a Monday. Starting last week and getting worse over the weekend, one of my car tires started leaking. So first off today, my car key came off the keychain. Frantic hunting through the grass for it in the dark. Filled up tire on the way to drop off daughter (filled it up yesterday, but it was down to 8psi this morning). Dropped off daughter and took car to tire repair at Walmart. They found the leak -- not on the tire, but the wheel itself is cracked. Recommended a place, and I had them put the spare tire on in case the wheel is damaged beyond repair. I get to wheel repair shop, and this type of wheel can't really be repaired. Design flaw, the way it's welded during construction makes it vulnerable to this type of cracking. At least it wasn't my fault (I don't remember running over anything, hitting any deep pot holes, etc). New wheel is ordered and will be in later this week. Running around with spare tire on. Daughter has school play this week, so the whole school gets to see me driving around with spare wheel. Hubby's truck is going in tomorrow for repairs. So much for getting ahead of the bills.


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## ShadeSlayer

Oh man I'm sorry! That sucks. Where we live the winter tore up are roads and for several miles it's nothing but DEEP and frequent huge potholes that stretch on forever form all the semi's. My mom's worried about the alignment getting messed up on our car because sometimes they're so big you can't avoid 'em.


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## themamaj

Oh no. Yes car issues are worst. Hope get it all fixed soon. Glad shrimp doing well.


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## BettaSplendid

Ah man, I am sorry. Yes, car troubles... Makes me feel so helpless.


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## Sadist

I'm just bummed both cars at once had issues. Hubby's truck is fixed, and my wheel should come in today. I'm hoping it can be put on the car today, otherwise daughter will be with me since they have early out tomorrow for beginning of winter break (basically a long weekend the way the other schools did for illnesses last week). The car computer does not like having the spare on the car. Constantly going back and forth between add air and service pressure monitor. I just hope the tire people didn't mess up the pressure monitor. I recall reading that this model has sensitive ones that are easy to damage.

Oops, got caught up in the car rant and forgot to post pictures! I have one of Ramsey II on the glass with a shrimp blur speeding by and another of feeding time.


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## themamaj

Oh so envious of those gorgeous blues. Glad you are enjoying them!


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## Sadist

I couldn't find one of my guppies yesterday and then wondered how long she'd been missing. I found her snail-covered skeleton in the rocks today :-( She was the dark one with blue fins. So sad. The rest of the girls look fine and are socializing normally.


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## themamaj

Sorry to hear that. Glad others doing well.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Bummer about the guppy. Girls seem to be so delicate.


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## Sadist

This is the first problem I've had since I went all girls. Some of the bigger ones look super fat, the ones who get to the food first. Might cut down on food for a few days.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Actually, you may have gotten pregnant ones XD


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Pics? I love looking at female gups


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## Sadist

Here they are at the end of November. So far, no births, and their gravid spots aren't very dark. I think they're just fat


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## Sadist

To follow up MamaJ's video of her first betta, I thought I'd post a picture of ours. Violet was a blue crowntail. I'd only done enough research to pick a 10 gallon, filtered and heated tank and not enough to know they needed places to hide. When the store people recommended putting some plants in to reduce the filter flow, I thought they were just trying to make me buy unneeded things and boost sales. It looks like I do have a silk and plastic plant in this picture, probably in front of the filter. He was from Walmart. Here he is!


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## ShadeSlayer

So pretty mamaJ! I love blues. Your girls are lookers, Sadist. I love endlers but am not a fan of how plain the females are.


----------



## themamaj

Sadist said:


> To follow up MamaJ's video of her first betta, I thought I'd post a picture of ours. Violet was a blue crowntail. I'd only done enough research to pick a 10 gallon, filtered and heated tank and not enough to know they needed places to hide. When the store people recommended putting some plants in to reduce the filter flow, I thought they were just trying to make me buy unneeded things and boost sales. It looks like I do have a silk and plastic plant in this picture, probably in front of the filter. He was from Walmart. Here he is!


Soo pretty! Yes we have come along way😊 

Thought of you today. Stopped by Hamilton Place briefly on way to Atlanta. May have to check out a fish store on way home Mon.


----------



## Sadist

There's a fish store sort of near Hamilton Place. They have corals and such as well as endlers, mollies, and some other fish along those lines. I really like their salt water fish and displays. It's right next to Pigtails and Crewcuts, where we get daughter's hair cut.


----------



## BettaSplendid

The girls look great! Sorry you lost that pretty one. Violet looks very impressive. So nice he got a 10.


----------



## Sadist

Thanks!


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## MysticSky22301

My first batch of metallic purple lace fry are starting to "sex out" I put a few back in the breeding tank ^^ I really really want them to color up completely 

They might just be fat XD my girls are never actually skinny even after giving birth


----------



## AccaliaJay

I had a weird dream last night about my tanks. It involved the heaters glowing orange, overheating and even bending... That's just the topping that main part was I had a betta in my five gallon and there was a baby betta in with it... It was weird..


----------



## MysticSky22301

Weird yes, I've had dreams of all of my fish dying one night. Like I walked out to feed them and they are all floating and I don't know. Happened

I had a dream last I was about a month pregnant and creatures were coming after me x.x I knew I was dreaming but I still woke myself up because it was just getting too weird


----------



## Sadist

It was bloodworm day today! I haven't done frozen in a while, so everyone's dashing around, looking for more.


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## themamaj

What are you feeding the shrimp?


----------



## Sadist

Sometimes pellets, sometimes crumbs from the bottom of the algae wafer bag. There's also a lot of micro stuff in that tank from the hornwort needles and oak leaves and live plants. I need to get a picture of one eating a pellet. So cute, holding a little pellet.


----------



## themamaj

Aww that would be so cute! 

I talk to axolotl breeder. He said he would take any eggs I dont want and gave me some tips on rearing babies. Will need to do reverse osmotic water for them once hatch. Apparently very sensitive and it helps cut down on fungal or bacteria infections. Going to talk further later today. My mind is spinning trying to process all of this!


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## Sadist

What, did your axies have babies? I totally missed it!


----------



## Sadist

I fed bloodworms yesterday. I squirted some tank water on the cube enough to thaw and remove 5 worms for Mr. Tinkles (daughter recently renamed him to Mr. Flappy, sigh), and then put the rest of the cube in the guppy tank as is. Big Yellow girl grabbed ahold and swam at max speed around the tank with all the other girls chasing after the cube. Fun.


----------



## themamaj

I bet that was too funny. Look what I got... try and catch me


----------



## Sadist

She reminded me of seeing a show on tigers, and the tiger caught some sort of bird. The wing was extended into her view, and she kept running into things.


----------



## Sadist

Mr. Flappy (formally Mr. Tinkles) has been lethargic and pale and not coming to breakfast. I thought the time change was messing breakfast up for him (ie he was still resting), but now I've noticed he's pale, too. I craned around to the thermometer area (I had to stick it in a weird area to get it to stay on the glass) and see the temp dropped to 72 with the outside cold spell. I've never had problems with his tank and the outside temperature. I put a blanket around it, and hopefully that'll help warm it up over the day. Guppy/Blackiechat tank is okay. I don't see many shrimp in the window tank. They could be molting. Last I saw, several had doubled in size since they came in. I hope that tank didn't have a temperature fluctuation and kill them.


----------



## themamaj

Maybe some daytime sun today will perk Mr Flappy up. Maybe you could leave blanket around tank during day as well to give him some extra insulation. I think I saw nighttime temp back in 20s for tonight here. Other idea is maybe run a space heater in there during the day for a little while to boost your ambient temp.

My shrimp would go several days without me seeing them. I think that is typical during molting times or in my case laying low from big mouth bettas lol. Shrimp have a wider temp range and can do well from 68-80 degrees.


----------



## Sadist

Mr. Flappy was gone this morning. With the blanket on all day and night and the space heater, the tank got back up to 78. It's first day of Spring Break for daughter, so she helped me bury him. Not sure when we'll get a new fish, but I'm always lonely at my desk if no one's there watching me.

I did see two shrimp out and about yesterday. Sometimes, I see a mad dash to hiding when I turn on the lights or approach the tank. I moved a water sprite over that had put its leaves above the surface in the 10 gallon. More hiding spots in the roots, and it should help keep everything stable.


----------



## themamaj

I'm so sorry Sadist. I hate you have had such a hard time with tanks. Warm weather will be here soon so maybe you can get a new friend then. Hugs.


----------



## Sadist

Thanks. I just ordered some more adjustable heaters, 50 watt for winter. The desk tank is hard to get clean with plant placement, too. The plants keep the nitrates down, but maybe I have a lot of dissolved solids in there messing things up. Of course, the heat problems in winter just top everything off. It's the first time I've had issues with heat in that tank, maybe because I switched to sponge filter? It may not be spreading the heat as fast as the previous one. I got tired of the constant clogs on it and threw it out when the sponge filter became available. Oops, took too long typing, gotta go hang out with kiddo.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Its official. I need some really good noise canceling headphones... That or my mother needs to stop complaining and being a downer all the time. I would prefer headphones though seeing as I wouldn't have to deal with my dad giving me weird looks for listening to Japanese songs.


----------



## Sadist

Took daughter to Dollywood during spring break yesterday. Saw some alpacas on the way and thought of Bettasplendid and her family. We had a lot of fun, though my fragrance allergy gave me the nastiest headache. We got home, and I had forgotten to turn on the fish lights and feed >.< They were extra happy to see me this morning. I had dreams about taking care of fish, including a coral tank! Hehe.


----------



## AccaliaJay

Lol Sounds nice. Don't alpacas spit? Or were those llamas? I don't remember which one lol. I'm slightly worried about something. Apparently the owner of the house we rent might have lost the house so it might be getting foreclosed on.


----------



## Sadist

Well, that's certainly inconvenient. I hope you guys find a new place quickly!


----------



## themamaj

Glad you got to go to Dollywood. How was the Festival of Nations? I haven't been in a long time. I used to enjoy looking at craft booths of things from around the world. What ride did daughter like the best? 

Great dream about fish and corals. I bet you had been reading Lil's journal


----------



## Sadist

You're right, I think it's from reading Lil's journal.

We didn't look at the shops and crafts and such. Hubby and daughter don't have attention span for that sort of thing. We just did rides. Daughter is up to "moderate" roller coasters. We went on the firetruck train one, and it scared her just a little bit. She said that was her favorite, but I think she liked the swings that go in a circle the best. She rode it three times, twice by herself. She's still at the age where she likes the carnival rides better than the roller coaster. I've never liked carnival rides, and now they make me dizzy. Hubby was too tall to fit on roller coaster seats, but I had fun going on those with her. Water rides were closed because of the temperature. She likes the ones that bring you straight up a pole and then zoom down, but it was closed. I'm not sure if they were fixing something or if it was new and not completely built.


----------



## ThatFishThough

Oof. Never could do the Towers of Terror (as I call them) but I love the swings. Glad to hear you had a great time!

(LOL, I forgot to feed the fish yesterday morning, too. Oh, Tuesdays. We always criticize the Mondays, then the other days bite us back!)


----------



## themamaj

Are you talking about the Flooded Mine ride? I like that one. More my speed lol. I will ride the big roller coasters like the Tornado and Wooden Thunderhead but my body really feels the effects from them anymore. I haven't tried any of the new big ones. Daughter likes the Eagle one and there is another mine shaft one. Glad she is old enough to do stuff like that on own now. Swings are the best! I loved them as a kid (even back when it was called Silver Dollar City) and all my kids have loved them as well. Will have to try and take grandson this summer. It has been several years since I have been there. Funny your hubby is too tall for some of the rides. Mine is tall too about 6'3". He can't get his long legs in some either 

How are your shrimp doing? I am missing seeing mine since some unknown big mouth betta (cough Aleksandr) has been annihilating my population. I hope my blue shrimp is still alive. The ones that are left never come out. Are yours blue dreams or carbon rilis? I was watching one of Rachel's videos last night. She has some of the most beautiful shrimp! The good lps has a little small tank that they have set up as a shrimp tank. It is the cutest but from everything I have read it indicates that shrimp do better in larger bodies of water with more stable water parameters. Do you have yours in a 5 or 10 gallon? Have a friend at work that is bringing me her 5 gallon she didn't want anymore. Like I need another tank lol but hate to turn down a good one. How do you think a 5 gallon would be for shrimp?


----------



## Sadist

They had a cube of bloodworms today. Funny, the same guppy girl grabbed ahold of the block and zoomed around the tank. Blackiechat just chased the worms that fell off the cube while the girls pecked every morsel as soon as it was slightly loose. They're super interactive today after the worms.


----------



## themamaj

How many guppies do you have?


----------



## Sadist

I'm down to the 5 girls after the blue and black one died mysteriously. The 5 girls are super fat but interactive and active and eat very well. I guess it's just a body shape for mature females. Even after the entire cube of bloodworms (minus the few Blackiechat slurped up), they're pecking at the salvinia/frogbit and any snails they can get to. I'll put another lettuce in there. They (and the ottos) seem to like romain pretty well. I just put the super green end in with them, which is the part the hubby hates.


----------



## Sadist

My HoB filter in the 10 gallon quit a while back, but the sponge filter was keeping the cycle going on its own (it's made for 15 gallon tanks). Just put a new filter for more flow in there while daughter's friend is over for playdate. Guppies and Blackiechat are really enjoying the current.


----------



## Sadist

Daughter has gotten good with the hoola hoop. Her teacher gave the whole class hoola hoops for Christmas.


----------



## themamaj

She is so cute!!! What a neat gift.


----------



## Sadist

I had another elaborate dream about fish last night. So many dreams lately.


----------



## themamaj

How lucky to dream of fish. I usually have dreams where working and wake up exhausted lol. We went hiking today with grandson at Big Ridge State Park. Such a pretty day. Walked on trail to see a small dam and weir. Really neat you could walk over it on this little bridge and feel the cooler air from water. Lake was pretty to see. Maybe I will dream of fish seeing the lake


----------



## Sadist

I keep dreaming of fish work. One dream, I had rented some tank space somewhere (weird dream, but they had a drip system and everything, you just had the space and your set up in there). In my dream, the water was really cloudy, and I found out the drip system was just to keep the water topped off. I was doing water changes when the owner stopped by to see how things were going. In another dream, I was breaking down old tanks and kept finding hidden bettas in them. I was looking for cups to put them in until I could find a home for them. The ones I wanted to keep, someone else was interested in because they were flirting and ready to breed. Silly dreams.

Spring break is finally over, and I'm tired all over already. Did groceries, working on laundry. Not sure I'll get around to vacuuming the empty desk tank or the carpet today.


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## themamaj

Cleaning out tanks realizes there are bettas in there sounds like something I would dream haha. Funny after a break you almost need another to catch up and recover!


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## BettaSplendid

Sadist said:


> Daughter has gotten good with the hoola hoop. Her teacher gave the whole class hoola hoops for Christmas.


:grin2:

Precious!


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## Sadist

Thanks!

Yes, my whole body is sore like the flu today just from doing the grocery store and laundry. Didn't get any vacuuming done. I really want to get that desk tank vacuumed up and clean out all the filters and get a new friend. I miss having someone there watching the computer screen. 

The guppy girls are still super sweet. I'm happy to have a group of girl ones without the hardships of pregnancies and birth to mess things up. They always swim up all excited like a betta when someone enters the room. Daughter likes to watch them, saying they're playing hide and seek with each other.

Weather mostly warming up. I think only 2 shrimp survived. I see the same two out most days, but the others seem to be gone. There are hiding spots I can't see, but I think some would have shown up by now. Maybe they're all in the filter crevices, and I'll find them when I clean out the filter sponges.


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## Sadist

Got some vacuuming done on the two small tanks and some pictures of the guppy girls and ottos enjoying the new filter flow. Also, Purpley followed us home from Walmart today. He's a veil tail with the lavender ee coloring and some turquoise highlights. Sorry for the blur. He's super curious so far, and I hope he eats better than his cup shows.


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## themamaj

Wow you have the most amazing guppies! So pretty. Your ottos are so cute. I have watched them on the store a bit and love seeing how they wiggle to swim. Do they help keep algae down on plants? Purpley 🤗 is the cutest and love the color!!! Great minds must think alike. I brought this guy home yesterday 😆


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## Sadist

Haha, twinzies! Purpley does have some turquoise on his caudal. Poor boy doesn't know what bloodworms are :-( His snails ate the bloodworm yesterday. He ate a mini pellet today. He didn't know it was food until it started sinking, then he dashed over and caught it. He has some strange shape to his body. Daughter picked him out because of his coloring. There was a lovely orange boy there, too. Kind of a peachy orange or just the light actually reached that part of the shelf or something. Purpley is very interactive and curious. I think he can see the guppies. He's very interested in the side facing their tank and keeps going over to look that way.

Forgot to answer your otto questions. They do keep the algae down. The 10 gallon is really too small to keep them fed, so I supplement with veggie wafers and lettuce. Mine seem to like romaine lettuce, the greenest part. They also like a lot of water flow, so that only works out with short-finned bettas. They're social, so having 6 really brings them out of hiding spots more. They're sensitive to nitrate, so those should be kept below 20. I know you're good at keeping your tanks clean, but some people will let nitrates get to 40 before cleaning, and that might stress the ottos out.


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## AccaliaJay

So I've come to the conclusion Java moss does not like me. I got some when I tried the red cherry shrimp and it died. Then Christmas my mom got me some more that was attached to a coconut husk thing and I think it might be dead now.. it's pretty brown. It's in my 30 gallon. In my 5 gallon though I have Anubis Nana which is doing really well I've already got four plants from the one I had bought. And my mom also got me Java fern at Christmas which is in there.. I can't say it's doing really well like the Anubis is but it's not completely dead looking. I just took the fern off the coconut husk thing and it pulled into two parts so I put it in the back corners of the 5 gallon. Anyone know why my Java moss doesn't work for me? I thought it was supposed to be one of the best beginner x.x also I'm thinking of getting into more live plants
like dwarf hair grass and such but I'm thinking I need to get the special tweezers and scissors first.


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## Sadist

I think a lot of the grasses need special lights. I haven't had much luck with java moss, either. Mine gets eaten by gammarus shrimps and disappears. I'm not sure why yours is just dying :-/


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## AccaliaJay

It's weird my Anubis Nana is doing so well. I wonder if it's a lighting issue in my 30 gallon. I might put it in my five. I'm also thinking of taking out all of my fake plants and putting some of the live plants I do have in there and see how they do. the 30 gallon seems brighter than my 5 but im not positive. So if the live Anubis Nana and Java fern start dying it would have to be something wrong in that tank.


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## Sadist

Pictures with and without flash. They aren't good pictures, but it's the best I can do with his activity levels. I can also never get the camera glare-free on this particular tank, too, without turning off all the lights or something drastic. Bonus blur picture to show you what I usually get.


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## themamaj

Oh he is soooo pretty! He reminds me of a grape fanta drink.


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## Sadist

Daughter picked him out when the school sent her home sick. It was just that beginning of a cold when there's a bit of a fever. Silly school wants there to be 0 fever, but if the kids stayed home for every cold they caught, they'd never be there. Anyway, she has good taste in fish! I'm not sure what's up with his body. Hard to see in the picture, but I guess the tail area (not the fins, but the body of the tail) seems skinny to me or just the area in front of it is bigger than normal or something. He looks hunch-backed or something. Maybe it's his spoon head that makes the rest of his body look funny to me? I think he has ee genes, too, though the fins are small. They're burgendy like the rest of his fins.

I hope everyone is doing well! Oops, I set the timer wrong to have me pick up the kiddo. I'm late!


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## themamaj

Daughter and I stopped at mall at HP. So hard to find girls dresses when they are older!


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## Sadist

It's hard to find clothes, period. Daughter is currently super tall and skinny. We have to get really big sizes to match her leg length, and then sometimes get the waist altered (even with elastic waist bands) so they don't fall off. I recall as a teen, I had big boobs, but being young they were too high for the women dresses I wanted to wear to the prom. I also had small hips then, so finding anything that wasn't two piece mix'n'match was difficult.

Everyone's doing well today. Purpley won't flare at a mirror, but he flares at some tank glare that I wasn't aware of. Guppy girls are all still doing well, as well as Blackiechat. My last blue shrimp seems be doing okay, too. I'm not sure if I should spend another $30 to repopulate the tank or put something in there that will eat the last living shrimp. I was thinking of some frogs as long as they don't sing loudly enough to bother hubby.


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## themamaj

He wont even notice them. It was really rare to hear my frogs and still had to be up next to tank listening. They are really fun to have.


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## Sadist

Thanks! Going to find a feeding dish for them before I get any. 

We did the Children's Museum today because it was some sort of Space Day. There were some NASA people behind tables with little displays, and daughter had 0 interest in them. We had fun with the normal museum things, though.


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## themamaj

I love that museum. So fun! Those terra cotta pot dishes work great for frogs. Like 50 cents!


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## Sadist

That's what I was thinking of getting. I just have to find a small one. I do have a flattish rock in there, but I'm afraid they'll get sand impacted in them if the food falls into the sand. From what I've read, they don't see well and could easily suck some sand in while eating the rest of the food.


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## themamaj

The sand wont really bother them as spit it out but they are not the brightest bulb in pack when comes to food plus slower eaters. Helpful to feed same place. Finally got mine to take food from turkey baster. Actually turkey baster good tool because it helps you place worms on a dish better without them flying all over tank.


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## AccaliaJay

So I finally caught my guppies having some fry. I found three and netted them out into my dark five gallon tank


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## Sadist

MiL got me an amazon gift card, so I bought some new books by a favorite author and finnex stingrays for my two tanks that are using desk lamps. I can't wait for everything to come in!


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## Sadist

My remaining shrimp and a surprise for daughter. See if you can find it!


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## themamaj

I spy an ADF!!!! Yeah! You will love it. So excited to hear of finnex lights. Tell me what you think. Have always wanted to try them. Great you got some books as well. I love to read when have a chance. What authors do you like?


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## Sadist

I like the modern fantasy books a lot. Patricia Briggs, Kim Harrison, Ilona Andrews.

With the frogs in there stirring up all the needles still there, I've found one more shrimp alive. So far, the frogs are too small to eat the shrimp, so we'll see how things go. I have some cut up mysis shrimp in their feeding dish right now. I put a tiny bit in it last night before daughter's swim class, and they ate it while we were gone. At least they know where the dish is now, and I can't wait until they have time down so I can watch them eating. They're still being shy for the most part with a mad, bubbley dash to the surface to breath.

The sweet onions in the garden have their flower buds again. I recall last year, they had flower buds for several months before opening. I'll try to remember to get pictures this year. We also have a volunteer blueberry shrub, which is nice to look at.


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## Sadist

I forgot to add that there was an adorable white double tail boy with big, black eyes that I almost took home. I just didn't have anywhere to put him except with the frogs and shrimp, and that tank is too small for betta with tank mates. He had some black spots, so I'm guessing he'll marble to black or even some other random marble coloring. He was super curious about my fingers.


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## themamaj

Would love to see flower buds and blueberry shrub. How many frogs did you get? Any names yet? Glad you found another shrimp. Sometimes they really camouflage themselves. White double tail...😍 Guess probably good I didn't stop at pet stores on the way home. Something about white fish! I went in Petco the other day and looked to see if those white babies were still there. They were gone. Not surprised as anything different goes quick. I did see this beautiful white butterfly with some turquoise and red. Sooo pretty. I've been debating.....


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## Sadist

Hehe, I'm pretty sure the one I saw will turn into a completely black fish some day. I'd still love it, though!

I got 5 frogs. The one with the clearest spots is Spotty. I think one is going to be Blue if he/she keeps the bluish tint. Actually, it may be Spotty who has the blue tint. Maybe it was a trick of the light. One looks female, not sure what I'm going to name her or the rest. They're still shy and hiding a lot, so it's hard to really tell them apart except for the female and Spotty for now.


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## themamaj

That is great! I miss my frogs. I will enjoy them through you  When you get some time in evenings just sit and watch their zen poses. They are super comical. I bet your daughter will love them. If you see any "hugging" love might be in the air. Not uncommon after a water change. If I get any more I would love to attempt breeding.


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## Sadist

The new lights came in! They're a lot different to install than last light that I thought was the same kind. I must have gotten a different brand the first time. The 10 gallon looks a lot brighter; I think the old light was maybe getting too old and dim. I might throw my last oak leaf in there to give some tannin shade to the fishies.

I'm hoping the froggies breed. Right now, they're all juvies (maybe 1 inch long at the most), so my gender guesses are really just based on body shape. The one I think is female might just be from an older batch at the store and fatter from store food or something. They're all still shy and hiding a lot. They like to hide in the needles, and one's dug a hole in the sand under the heater. It looks like one's dug a hole under the rock, and some are making a cave under the plate rim. I'm a little afraid they'll get stuck. The joys of being an aquarium mom!

I hope you have a good evening!


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## themamaj

Mine would hide in weird places like under sponge filter rim and one would burrow around plant roots. As they get comfortable they will start hanging in open more. They also love bloodworms. Hillirous to watch them suck it up like spaghetti or better yet a battle one. Beefheart is a favorite treat. My grandson would laugh over that. I'm glad you got 5. They do better in groups plus you can see how they interact better. Have you had a frog pile yet?


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## Sadist

Oops, I haven't had quick reply working very well for the past few days. I haven't had a frog pile, but I have seen three cram into a space big enough for one. I need to vacuum, but they're so good at hiding in there I think I'll use a turkey baster and 30 minutes to try and get gunk out without hurting them or the shrimp.


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## Sadist

It's rainy (less bright), so I see one out. Of the others, I see a webbed foot sticking out of some needles and part of a leg sticking out from under the feeding dish.


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## themamaj

Are they eating good for you?


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## Sadist

They don't eat while I'm there. The food is gone later, though. I wish I could be sure they're getting enough of it.


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## Sadist

One of the frogs was dead this morning. It looked healthy and fine, so I'm not sure what happened. I may have put too much food in there last night. I took the extras out this morning, but maybe that one ate too much. I see three living ones moving around in their hiding spots, and there should be a fourth one somewhere where I can't seem to find it.


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## themamaj

Oh no. I wouldn't think it would be food related. Have had that happen before for a newer addition. So sorry. 

How is Purpley doing? 

I thought of you this morning when got up as had the funniest dream last night that I was making this major motion picture movie about all the fish. I kept trying to get a conference call going with Rachel on tips for new species and aquascaping meanwhile I had construction going up for about 100 more tanks and trying to figure out who was going to finance my movie. Lol what I get for watching YouTube and knowing I have a lot to do.


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## Sadist

Everyone doing well. I took a few pictures a few days ago, but I haven't had time to move them to computer and post. I managed to find all 4 frogs yesterday, though today I can only find one. Purpley eating dry food okay but still not frozen. Salvinia minima roots finally long with the new light. I always have a good spread, but the roots never grew well before. I took pictures of Purpley flaring, but I'm not sure if any came out. He seemed half behind the mirror every time the camera went off.


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## AccaliaJay

Sorry about the frog Sadist. I really want Adfs but arnt you supposed to have like dirt or sand because of their poor eyesight they could eat gravel? If I also remember they don't like strong currents and all my tanks have some decently strong filters. Which don't bother my fish thankfully


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## Sadist

They're in a sand tank with a sponge filter, so those things are okay for their tank. So far, they don't seem to have eaten my remaining blue shrimp, too. Maybe they're still too small to get the shrimp in their mouths. There are three who like to hang out near the feeding plate more and more. There aren't as many hiding spots there, so maybe the rainy/cloudy days are helping to make the tank less bright and scary to them or something.

Purpley just flared at the computer screen. Either that, or the screen glare gives him a reflection to flare at.


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## Sadist

Another froggy was dead yesterday. This one looked really skinny the whole time I had him. He hung out by the food dish, so I'm not sure why. I managed to find one hider in a back corner today. I'd found it yesterday and wondered if it was a rock or dead, but I saw him moving around today. 

Purpley is doing great! He's gotten feeding time down. My pellet food is really low, so I need to buy some more since that's all he'll eat. He's flaring at the monitor. Maybe he sees my avatar way over there? He's got some regrowth on his anal that I didn't even know was missing. Or he's growing a butterfly white band there. He doesn't turn out in pictures the way he looks in person.

Guppy Gems and Blackiechat doing well. Funny to see all the little bodies swirling at the water surface at feeding time when I push the floating plants out of the way. All 5 remaining girls are still doing well, though the larger yellow one seems overweight to me. She eats more than the others, but I don't want to fast the whole tank (and risk Blackiechat attacking anyone in there) to get her belly down. So far, she seems just a little wobbly but still interacting and trying to eat everything in the tank. I make sure I put lettuce in for the ottos and hope she eats some while she's picking at everything.


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## batandmantank

Sadist said:


> Another froggy was dead yesterday. This one looked really skinny the whole time I had him. He hung out by the food dish, so I'm not sure why. I managed to find one hider in a back corner today. I'd found it yesterday and wondered if it was a rock or dead, but I saw him moving around today.
> 
> Purpley is doing great! He's gotten feeding time down. My pellet food is really low, so I need to buy some more since that's all he'll eat. He's flaring at the monitor. Maybe he sees my avatar way over there? He's got some regrowth on his anal that I didn't even know was missing. Or he's growing a butterfly white band there. He doesn't turn out in pictures the way he looks in person.
> 
> Guppy Gems and Blackiechat doing well. Funny to see all the little bodies swirling at the water surface at feeding time when I push the floating plants out of the way. All 5 remaining girls are still doing well, though the larger yellow one seems overweight to me. She eats more than the others, but I don't want to fast the whole tank (and risk Blackiechat attacking anyone in there) to get her belly down. So far, she seems just a little wobbly but still interacting and trying to eat everything in the tank. I make sure I put lettuce in for the ottos and hope she eats some while she's picking at everything.


Hey Sadist, I don't know if you remember the account Kyle15 like 2 years ago, thats me. Anyways please can you fill out one of those diagnosis forms?If you do remember my old account I said my family and I started a guppy breeding farm, we have 5 30Gallon tanks filled, and 1 135 Gallon tank and a 50 gallon tank, with about in total 5000 guppies, We have sold 10.. Mainly because of time and also finding the right place to sell them at where they can be well kept after, we are looking at new strains never been done before. Have you ever heard of a "Tiger Endler Guppie"? I would suggest if you want pairs for breeding it must be 1-1 for a specific line or 1-2.


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## Sadist

Thanks! I stopped breeding my guppies. I'm doing well with just having 5 guppies in the 10 gallon.


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## Sadist

I found a third shrimp in there, but it was smaller than the other two. I didn't think the two were fully grown, but the third is the size they were when they arrived. Babies?

I fished out a frog skeleton from a corner hiding spot. The last one is hiding but seemed thin last I saw him. I think most of them just weren't eating :-( I wonder if I should have used mini bloodworms since they were so small when I got them?


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## themamaj

You could add a drop of garlic to your bloodworms. That will entice them. Mini bloodworms would be good but like you puzzled why not eating.


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## Sadist

I saw some of them hanging out in the rood dish, but I never saw them eat. Maybe the pest snails were what disappeared all the food. I fished those out, but they increased in numbers after the frogs arrived.

One of the shrimp molted over night, and it is so blue! It really grew, too.

Purpley still doing well. Blackiechat and guppy girls doing well, too. I see what I thought was swim bladder issues with fat yellow girl is just her picking at the salvinia roots (being vertical). She's swimming fine when she isn't picking at the roots. It's a relief.


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## Sadist

Daughter's school had a half day today.

I'm kicking myself for trying the frogs instead of getting that black and white double tail marble I saw the same day. There are still 3 shrimp flourishing in the tank. I may just leave it as a shrimp tank, especially with the problems it has in the winter.

Purpley doing well. Guppy tank doing really well.


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## themamaj

Love painting picture. Glad Purply and guppies doing well. Sorry about frogs. I wonder if it was just a sickly batch.


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## Sadist

They could have been sickly. They hid so much that I couldn't tell much about them except Spotty and the female-shaped one.


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## AccaliaJay

Sadist did I show you my newest boy I got a week or two ago? I don't remember lol. Anyways here's a pic. He's in a 3.5 gallon I bought to take over for my 5 gallon with no lights. I think 3.5 is my minimum size tank. It feels small to me lol. His name is Nymph Phlox. He has a bump in front of his dorsal fin but can't figure out what it is. But he's still active and eating so I'm trying not to worry to much. Also he's tank mates with 3 guppy fry. Within the next week or two they should be good sized to hold their own against my 30 gallon betta female. Hopefully she won't eat them. 

My two guppy females are huge now! Hopefully their ready to pop some babies out because I feel like my tank is bare with only 1 betta, 4 guppies, 1 Cory and 2 nerites and lots of seed shrimp that no matter how much I gravel vacuumed and try to suck them up I don't seem to make much of a dent. They didn't appear till my ghost shrimp dissappeared. Their creep and annoying I feel like my tank looks dirty with them in there. Ever have seed shrimp?


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## Sadist

I've had gammarus shrimp before. In a sand tank, the fish keep their population in check. They hide in the gravel and eat food and undigested food in the poop and the plant roots. What a pain. 

Your boy is gorgeous! I love double tails even with the bump by the dorsal. I pretend it's a muscle bump to help hold up the long fin


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## Sadist

A week or two ago, Purpley got a big cyst on his face. It started to get better the first few days of treatment, but he still got dropsy and died. Here is Sweety Pie, the newest addition to our pets. Sorry for the poor picture. I still have the light off while she explores. I think they just fed them today; her cup was mostly clean with one massive dookey in the bottom. She's white with orange or red fins. Time will tell as she colors up. Crown tail. Daughter is singing in my ear, so can't really concentrate.

Note the plants stuck to the side  I had the water level lower for a bit, but it wasn't working for the salvinia/frog bit. I raised the level today before we went to pick out Sweety Pie, and some of the dead frog bit is still stuck to the glass.


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## Sadist

Sweety pie came with one dark speck near her dorsal, and now she has a few more dark spots scattered around. I didn't know orange cambodians have the marble gene. I just love those big, dark eyes on the white background. She's a sweety, though, and eats well. Her poor crowntail ovaries are so low. She's even bigger than that after she eats!

Daughter on swim team this year. Practice every weekday and race/meet on Thursdays. Busy, busy!


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## themamaj

That is great your daughter is on the swim team! I bet she will really enjoy that. How is your new Sweetie Pie doing? What a cute girl!


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## Sadist

She's doing great! She's slowly adding more dark spots (like one scale at a time) and has a few spots on her fins now, too. I haven't had time to do a lot of pictures; I only took a few, and I haven't even had time to add to computer yet. I can't tell if the spots are blue or black; she's so tiny, and those scales are super tiny. I probably need reading glasses.

Hubby's office has a Lake Winnie thing today with free tickets for all employees and family. We're leaving as soon as we finish lunch and get packed up. Big surprise for daughter and first time on the water side for both of us.


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## themamaj

That is awesome. Have fun!


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## Sadist

We had a blast Friday, then had date night while she was with Grandma and cousin for a bit. Today, more fun in the pool but with rain. Sunny now that we're out. 

I hope you had a great weekend!

First real swim meet tomorrow. We're all nervous.


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## themamaj

How fun first meet! Good luck to her!! I hope she has a great day and has lots of fun.


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## Sadist

She got to practice better form and breathing with the little kids today in swim practice. Meet tonight, probably get home super late.


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## BettaSplendid

Oh swim team! Excellent! I need to get Son doing that, great excercise. 

Cutie pie is aptly named. You can't resist those lady crowntails. Well, they are precious. I still regret not geting that female Cambodian crowntail I saw back when starting my sorority. I went with Lady Red since she was cheaper and I liked her too.


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## Sadist

The lady crowntails are my favorite right now. I just have a problem with the way they hold their ovaries so low that they always look bloated. Then, when they get sick, it's harder for me to tell until it's too late.

We had fun at the swim meet. Daughter's relay teams both got second place. There was an organizational problem with everything, so a bunch of things were skipped or changed, resulting in lots of tears for some of the other first timers. Daughter did well in her 3 individual races but didn't place. They haven't released anything about the overall team points or anything, so I'm not sure where we stand.


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## themamaj

That is great on the relay teams. What stroke does daughter swim? Keep up that good practicing. Tell her great job on first meet!! Hopefully it will be a little better organized too.


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## Sadist

She swims the 4 big strokes, though her butterfly and breast strokes are both a bit messy. All her forms are a bit messy, but freestyle and backstroke, she at least puts the arms and legs together correctly. With her age, breast and butterfly are optional for competition.

We just got back from play swimming and about to head back for an hour of practice. Got to use up 2 free passes to have a friend swim with her today, so I could relax and chit chat with friend's mom. :grin2: I don't mind playing, but I have to rest every 20-30 minutes. It was nice to have the full swim time for rest!


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## Sadist

Cutie Pie in the least blurry. I couldn't get the other side of her, where her dark dot by her dorsal is more visible. You can sort of see a few of the scattered speckles here and there on this side.


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## themamaj

She is so cute!


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## BettaSplendid

I said out loud, "OH MY GOSH SHE *IS* CUTE!" precious!


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## Sadist

We lost Cutie Pie over the weekend. She was fine, then one morning didn't eat. That evening, dead in the corner :-( She wasn't bloated or anything, and I had just noticed she was 2-3 mm longer than when we got her.


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## themamaj

Oh no. I am so sorry Sadist..


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## BettaSplendid

Oh no! I am sorry. That is heartbreaking. That sorta thing happened to Solomon. He looked so good and the next day he was gone. No symptoms, no warning. 

SIP dear Cutie Pie.


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## Sadist

Thanks, ladies. Daughter and I are heartbroken. We got attached to her really quickly.


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## themamaj

How's the swim team going? Weather has been really pretty here. Hope you all have had the same for some good swim times.


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## themamaj

How are things going? Haven't heard from you in a while.


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## themamaj

Miss hearing from you. Hope you are having good summer.


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