# Swinging the Ban Hammer?



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Is it just me, or are the mods banning people left and right these days? I know they're just trying to do their jobs, but maybe they're being overzealous? Sure, I understand banning some of those users, but others, I don't see why they would be banned so quickly for something so silly or something that is only warning worth..... Whatever happened to warnings about behavior/forum usage that was pretty common not that long ago? I mean, this is a family forum and all, and family forums want to keep clean and safe and all that, but seriously, this is getting ridiculous seeing as the other side of the Family Forum would be that in general they tend to be very _friendly to users_ which, it seems has not been the case as of late.


Maybe I'm only now noticing how much people are banned, maybe not, but it seems like banned users are becoming more and more and more common. *shrugs* I know the Mods know what they're doing, but it's just something I wanted to comment on seeing as I honestly have counted more banned people in the past three months than I ever have before.


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

I have noticed an uprising in bans as well, and it saddens me. But I just thought that I must be missing or overlooking the offensive posts, but I have been starting to doubt that theory... I don't think I could miss that many offensive posts as much as I'm on here. I have been confused about this issue as well.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Well, I haven't noticed much in the short time I've been here except for BettaBreeder123...and yeah... let's not bring that up again.

But as of late, people that have been banned keep making new accounts and trying to come onto the forum. That's probably why the numbers are climbing, but people need to learn that when they're banned, they're banned.

The reason behind why they keep coming back is because this forum doesn't ban IP addresses...because internet providers tend to "recycle" IPs and eventually a ban on someone's address would be lifted from the "recycling" process...meaning that the person that receives the banned IP address as "new", they'd be banned from the forum instead of the person that was banned in the first place (at least this was how it was explained to be during the BB123 incident).

Maybe that's a reason why the numbers seem to be climbing?


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, I've noticed a few members get banned in a few day's time after joining, but never saw them post anything that I considered offensive or rule breaking...


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I know this makes me sound like I've been on the forum for a long time (which I haven't) but: I remember around the time I joined, there weren't that many bans. Banned members were only banned for serious offenses or repeated offenses. There were members who would be warned twice, maybe even three times before being temporarily banned. Even then, it was only for about a month or so, then they'd get back on... then the ones who didn't listen after a temporary ban and would keep on acting incorrectly would be permenantly banned. 

This makes me really upset, it makes me feel like this forum isn't as welcoming, accomodating, or understanding and family-ish as it once was. :/

Edit: also, the ones that come back as new users, I"m not counting them, the same person's multiple accounts are just one person to me and were banned for being idiots and returning, so that's acceptable. But others, new people seem to be banned for the stupidest of things with no warning at all...


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

TaylorW said:


> Well, I've noticed a few members get banned in a few day's time after joining, but never saw them post anything that I considered offensive or rule breaking...


That's probably the people that have been banned joining under different names...even DQ has posted about being tired of banned users that keep coming back under different login names. Once you're banned, you're banned...if you get caught coming back, of course you're gonna get ban-hammered again. :roll:



JKfish said:


> I know this makes me sound like I've been on the forum for a long time (which I haven't) but: I remember around the time I joined, there weren't that many bans. Banned members were only banned for serious offenses or repeated offenses. There were members who would be warned twice, maybe even three times before being temporarily banned. Even then, it was only for about a month or so, then they'd get back on... then the ones who didn't listen after a temporary ban and would keep on acting incorrectly would be permenantly banned.
> 
> This makes me really upset, it makes me feel like this forum isn't as welcoming, accomodating, or understanding and family-ish as it once was. :/


Well I feel like the site is still rather accommodating... but that's just me. =P But if you keep coming back, temporary ban or not and you don't email the moderators for permission or get the "O.K." to do so, you're technically breaking a forum rule. =/


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

No, I mean, it seemed like these were legit new members to me. And they seemed very friendly and knowledgeable about 
fish...

If they weren't legit and I am just naive, that is one thing, but if they were legit, that is another.

I apologize if they weren't legit accounts!


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I completely agree.... It would have been a different matter if they did something, were warned, did it again several times, and then were banned, but that didn't happen.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

TaylorW said:


> No, I mean, it seemed like these were legit new members to me. And they seemed very friendly and knowledgeable about
> fish...
> 
> If they weren't legit and I am just naive, that is one thing, but if they were legit, that is another.
> ...


Or they are just amusing to read their frantic posts...
*Flails*


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm pretty sure some of those were legit accounts. I mean, you can tell when person comes back under a different user. They sound/act exactly the same, and tend to irritate other users, and then are banned for coming back without permission, which is a no-no.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Well if they were legit...then I have no idea why they were banned..I dunno where to look at banned accounts (is there a list on the site? :-?)

But I'm just assuming that the majority of recent bans have been from people that have already been "perma-banned" that keep trying to come back. No matter what though, if they're banned and they aren't approved by a moderator to come back and make a new account to re-enter the forum community, then they're breaking a rule which piles onto their reasons why they were banned in the first place, and get banned again... point is is that they should just be patient and wait out their ban sentence and then politely ask to come back...it's not that difficult. :roll:

EDIT: I believe forum moderators can see the ISP of the user joining the forum..if it matches...as well as other information like email accounts...then they have probable cause to ban them because it's proof that they are the same person. People tend to use different user names to try and "fool" the forum community so they can slink back in.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

there's no list, though, if you look around, I bet you'll find their posts still on the first few pages, that's how recent it's been...


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, I know for sure one member that was recently banned had their thread removed, so most people don't realize they were banned. I didn't see anything wrong with the thread though, they were just wanting to give away high quality male fish to new breeders for free... I was really baffled by that one.

I guess that could have been classified as "Unauthorized Advertising" under the forum rules, but it was free so I don't see what the big deal was? And someone that just joined today or yesterday was banned, I'm not really sure why, they were an IBC member...


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

TaylorW said:


> Well, I know for sure one member that was recently banned had their thread removed, so most people don't realize they were banned. I didn't see anything wrong with the thread though, they were just wanting to give away high quality male fish to new breeders for free... I was really baffled by that one.


Wait, that person was banned? :-? I saw that post too...I thought it was weird to give away free fish, but it wasn't my fish so meh. *shrug* I didn't get to read the whole thread anyway...what did it consist of really?

Are there any more threads up with the open poster banned up still? Links? :-? I'm starting to get confused now.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I highly doubt this is the post/thread that got the poster banned, but here's an example of an open thread just made by the user before he was banned, for what looks to me like no reason at all... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=57551


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

What you have to understand is that sometime the offensive posts and threads are deleted so quickly and efficiently that you never really get the chance to see them.

I remember a long while back I was on a thread... I can't remember whose at the moment but they were asking about some kind of debris at the top of thier tank or something and a brand new user popped up and commented with something along the lines of "It's a bubble nest you (well it's not a curse word but it;s extremely offensive to me so I'm not reposting it. :/). What idiot can't tell the difference?" I immediately contacted them telling them that they had no right to post that, that they were wrong anyway and that I was reporting their post to the moderators.

DQ banned them seconds later. I think they had been posting abuse in multiple sub-forums.

Anyway immediately after I reported them I commented after them with something along the linse of "TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" because I'd just watched the "Trololololol" video on YouTube. 

Since the user was banned within 2 minutes noone understood my post. not even the member who created the thread. And the thread was at the top of the sub-forum that day so lots of people were seeing it.

So yeah. =] Our mods are really efficient and just because you don't see an offensive post or thread doesn't mean it was never there.

And I never knew about the banned people getting completely new and different accounts and then continuing to troll on the forum under a different username. 

That does make tons of sense though. I've seen a lot of members whose vocabulary seems extraordinarily similar to past members' who have already been banned pop up on the forums. They tend to disappear after a few days though and now I know why. ;P

It's not that this forum is becoming less family-friendly in my opinion. It's just that we've had to deal with a lot of trolls this year.

I personally theorize that this is because the economy is in a rut and people buy bettas and goldfish thinking that they're "easy and cheaper than regular pets."
They don't realize all the cash and care that goes into being an Aquarist.

A lot of people then take offense when they come on the forum and members tell them that what they're doing is hurting an animal when they thought they were doing just fine. Some don't want to cchange and want to spend their time arguing and flaming instead of listening, making the necessary arrangements, getting/saving the cash, and changing.

Thus when they get banned apparently they can come back and troll with a different user-name and try to convince people that the harmful and cheap methods are better than the methods that we all prescribe. =]

That's just my theory judging by the trolling posts that I've seen and the one that I reported. ;]

I could be wrong. =]


WHOA they were deleted? That's a brand new thread. D: I wonder what they did. Are they the person that was selling free fish?


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

I can't find a single offensive post made by this person... http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=22751

Confused as to why this person was banned too...
http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=22558


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Tsuhei has the right of it. There was someone here who was pretending they were not a previously banned member and they were originally banned for a good reason (I don't know if I should say why, mods?). They came back again as someone new but they got caught again. And then they came back again today and got caught again.


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't spend near the time interacting on this forum that many do, but I hadn't noticed an inordinate number of bans... only one in fact, and I thought that not only were the mods very patient, but perhaps too tolerant of obnoxious behavior before acting.

I don't know that it applies here, but as a volunteer moderator on an unrelated forum, I can tell you that you won't always see another member get warned for a particular post or persistant behavior- it is often done by private message.

I can also tell you that publicly questioning a moderators decisions there is, in itself, a suspensionable act though moderators will explain themselves in detail if asked privately. 

Tough job moderating, and no matter what you do or don't do, someone ends up unhappy.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

JKfish said:


> I highly doubt this is the post/thread that got the poster banned, but here's an example of an open thread just made by the user before he was banned, for what looks to me like no reason at all... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=57551


Hm! I read through all of his activity posts...I'm not exactly sure what would be ban-able material...maybe excessive posting of aquabid pictures? :-? Not sure if that's ban-worthy...

EDIT: @ TaylorW: Woah wait, Miharu was banned? Looks like I'm going to be doin' some forum reading. 

EDIT EDIT: I know why she was banned...take a look at her forum posts and you'll get it.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I understand that most material is removed extremely quickly, but if you look at the activity of some of the banned members, they didn't act in any way that would lead me to believe they should be banned, and I honestly can't think of them suddenly and randomly making a trolling post, especially with how genuienly intelligent, nice, knowedgeable, etc about bettas most of them were. 
*sigh* I had a feeling this thread might technically be ban material, but I was honestly curious about wheter other people were noticing this asides from me...


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Oops, sorry for the mix up, I think I now get why they were banned   

Sorry Mods!!!


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Same here...still sticking to my guns about my previous posts..but I think I'm going to leave the thread now.. don't want to open up a new can of worms. =S


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

true, same here....

Also, I apologize for opening this thread up, I probably should have asked around via Pms instead of opening this for everyone. If someone will close/delete the thread, it's probably for best.


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## tsoto80 (Nov 26, 2010)

when a person keeps coming back after being banned is it because of their love for bettas or do you think they just wanna annoy people?


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm also sticking to my guns. I think most of the people that got banned broke a rule and deserved it. Whether it was a while back and they've learned their lesson or if it was recently and they have yet to reform. If you're banned you're banned.  I was surprised by how recent those two were but my opinion still stands. 

If they reformed; great. They should e-mail the mods and talk to them about lifting the ban or something. that's the end of my bit in this thread. ;]


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

tsoto80 said:


> when a person keeps coming back after being banned is it because of their love for bettas or do you think they just wanna annoy people?


I would surmise that it's because they feel that they're hurt because they've been cut off from what they feel is their community and because (in their mind) the penalty was unduly harsh for their offense. None the less, a forum is quite literally someones private property, bought and paid for by them and as such, you and I are guests subject to their rules.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

JK Fish is kind of right, i have seen a couple of people get banned for somethings that they didnt know what they did wrong. Also These people should get from 1-3 warnings based on their action.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I think that someone should call one of the SM to come and see this thread. and explain to us why.


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

Also do keep in mind that mods on a lot of sites have access to the user's IP address...it's quite easy to 'fake' being someone on the internet, but if they have the same IP address as a banned account it's pretty much a dead giveaway.

I'm going to agree with Wallywest and say that the most offensive stuff is usually hidden or removed...and warnings are done with PMs...I remember DQ PMed me once because I accidentaly used an inapporpraite word, so yeah...most of the stuff is hidden from us.


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

Mmm.... I wish they would say who was banned and why. I understand it's not quite our buisness but, it would be nice to understand why some actually very nice people, like miharu, who are our friends, get banned! :/


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Jupiter said:


> Also do keep in mind that mods on a lot of sites have access to the user's IP address...it's quite easy to 'fake' being someone on the internet, but if they have the same IP address as a banned account it's pretty much a dead giveaway.
> 
> I'm going to agree with Wallywest and say that the most offensive stuff is usually hidden or removed...and warnings are done with PMs...I remember DQ PMed me once because I accidentaly used an inapporpraite word, so yeah...most of the stuff is hidden from us.


And its only hidden from us because the SM would not want to embarrass anyone.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Some people are *banned* not for what they write/post but for what they do to people...not naming names here but one person that keeps coming back as another person/username over and over has *Ripped* people off...they sell things and get money from people and the person doesn't get what they paid for except for excuses of why they haven't received what they paid for....the web-site is trying to protect *YOU *from being* RIPPED OFF* by a person that has a history of doing so on this forum as well as history of doing so on *OTHER* forms as well...also, this one person admits to abuse to fish...killing them because they didn't get what they wanted.....if they really did that is only known to them but they posted that they did and that is all that we can go by on the internet....some people we just don't want here and this form is working hard to protect* YOU* from these shameless people that* LIE* and are a *THIEF..*......so understand that some people banned is related to much more than what is on the surface......


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

^ +1 OFL :shock: Couldn't have said it better myself.. *re-leaving thread*


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

See everyone! all we need is a little explaining and we could all understand. Also these Moderators are helping us a lot!

So thanks OFL!!!!

Sometimes we should just let them do the dirty work and keep this a family forum and kind people should stay with some bumps along the way


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, Oldfishlady! I never knew there was someone like that around here! *shudders* I just never thought about sneaky people acting nice on here than being not so nice deep down... Not sure why that thought never occurred to me *facepalms* It just scares me that there are people out there like that... So I owe the mods for keeping that person off our forum.

I am sorry if I offended any mods, I now see why so many bans have been placed recently. I am also sorry if I lead anyone else to doubt the mods in my ignorance of the situation(s).


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Hm. Just came by this thread, and I hadn't noticed the bans until just now. 

By the way, OFL, I love your use of *bolding *and underlining in your explanation. XD
I remember one member who was scamming people out of their money this past August or so but that's all I can think of. Well I guess all I can say is that our mods rock.


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

metalbetta said:


> Hm. Just came by this thread, and I hadn't noticed the bans until just now.
> 
> By the way, OFL, I love your use of *bolding *and underlining in your explanation. XD
> I remember one member who was scamming people out of their money this past August or so but that's all I can think of. Well I guess all I can say is that our mods rock.


Ah, must have been right before I joined then, which makes me feel even more ignorant XD


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Well from what I remember, she offered her fish up for adoption, then took everyone's money and ran. Nobody could get a hold of her, and so she eventually got banned. Apparently she had been doing the same on several other forums as well. I think that was pretty much the basics of it... I don't think it's that person... but who knows? I might have missed another scam. The internet isn't exactly the safest/most sane place. lol


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, that is really really scary. And awful  Taking advantage of nice people like that...   Once again, sorry mods, I'm ignorant!


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

metalbetta said:


> The internet isn't exactly the safest/most sane place. lol


And that is truer than you (hopefully) will ever know. I've had to deal with some authentic pscychos on another site and it's no fun at all.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Yeah, you really have to be careful around the net... Scams are everywhere. I've taken some risks myself, but so far I've gotten lucky. Met my best friend over Xanga 5 years ago. For all I knew she could have been some perv. but we ended up sitting next to eachother (totally by accident) in our Geography class on the first day of our freshman year... when we found out we were punk20princess and lilpsychorocker our minds were blown. lol... Not every case is as awesome as that though. 
When it comes to buying things from the internet, check around on the site for people's reputations, and when in doubt, don't do it. Some people (like the one i described before) are almost impossible to detect. She was really nice. I could rant forever on internet safety but I think a lot of our forum members already know better.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Feral said:


> And that is truer than you (hopefully) will ever know. I've had to deal with some authentic pscychos on another site and it's no fun at all.


Been there. unfortunately. lol


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## AngelicScars (May 5, 2009)

Feral said:


> And that is truer than you (hopefully) will ever know. I've had to deal with some authentic pscychos on another site and it's no fun at all.


Yep, been there with other forums. It is horrible and disturbing what people do/try to get away with.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

BettaFish.com has an awesome staff of moderators and a responsive Administration, however, if you haven't already figured this out I am not a moderator on this forum...not that I haven't been asked, I have, but declined due to my health was unstable at the time and I was pretty new to the site as well and didn't feel it would have been fair to others.

As stated by others we do get some unsavory folks that come along and try to take advantage of the young and/or unsuspecting-some of these unsavory folks have been banned from this site using multi different user names and have been banned from other sites for the same reason-not just me but other members as well as moderators recognized these people for reason I cannot share and took the needed action to keep this site safe.

When dealing with people on the internet-be careful-just because they are nice with common interest doesn't mean they have good intentions...look at post counts and before you give personal information and/or money ask a moderator-especially if that poster has a low post count....most members on this site are good honest people....but it only takes one to ruin your day....be careful....and have FUN........


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## tsoto80 (Nov 26, 2010)

I know swearing is against the rules but I have seen a few post with swear words in it so I dunno


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## LikeDiscoSuperfly (Oct 18, 2010)

Feral said:


> Tough job moderating, and no matter what you do or don't do, someone ends up unhappy.


exactly! 
I was a mod once on a very active site (sadly, it died out.. long story. I had been there since I was 12, it was heartbreaking) but I HATED being a mod. HATED IT! I will never mod again, I have been asked on other forums and I always have to decline.. noooo way. 

and one of the most annoying things was when someone would question me in the public forum on my choices.. it is always best I think to just message a mod and ask what is going on. you will always get a reply, maybe not an answer, but you will get a reply. 

I think our mods do a great job, I have only been here a short time, but I do post a lot. I hardly EVER see trolls or rude comments. kudos to you mods!


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## Juneii (Nov 29, 2010)

I am a long time member of another forum elsewhere on the internet. The admins and moderators there are VERY strict, mostly because there are a lot of creepers who try to join and troll/terrorize/steal information from us. If there is anyone who does anything slightly suspicious they are warned and then promptly banned if they do it again. They are quite firm on being respectful to one another and will suspend anyone who repeatedly breaks the rules.
As a result the forum is a very warm community and for the most part everyone gets along or at the very least pretends to. In comparison Bettafish.com is quite lax - not that it is a problem at all! It is very interesting how different these two forums are


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Unfortunately, the internet is full of dishonest people who try to take advantage of other people. When trolls are reported we try to take care of it as soon as we can. I would like us to cut down on the arguements because we don't want new people to think all we do is criticize and argue among ourselves. This is a very friendly forum and I take pride in that. I think we have a lot of great members here.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

+1 DQ. Since I joined I've felt very comfortable with the members here... especially when I was trying to figure out what to do with Mr. Impulse Buy over here... (Winston)... Glad I know how to care for him well now. 

Loooove you guys.


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## wildmagic713 (Sep 6, 2010)

I get what you mean- I belong to a horse forum with a small community (About 25 active users). It's where all of us who have been on Yahoo! for a long time went after the horse section became infested with trolls.

The person who made the forum has been on Yahoo! for approximately 6 years. She, as well as the other mods, have been great about keeping unwanted people out. And all of us on there have been on Yahoo! for years. We know each other well enough from that that it is easy to trust the people on this forum. Two of them are my penpals, and were before I was on either of those forums. It doesn't mean I will give out my name or address though.

It's about finding a balance of how much you can give out about yourself.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Before I joined this forum I was a little leery about it. I knew my brother was on a forum so I asked him if it was safe. He said as long as you don't share personal info like your bank account number, Social Security number, address, etc. To me it's just using common sense. It's really a shame that the internet is used for evil purposes because I think there are a lot of good, decent people who use the internet just to talk about the things they love, like horses and bettas.


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