# hm female and double tail male



## marktrc

i got these 2 fish from my local pet store. the owner goes too thailand to get his fish. i was hoping for better quality but this is what i got. i was planning to breed the male to a diff white hm female but she didnt egg up like this female. eventually id like to have a pastel line and a melano line. im wondering if with alot of work i can get that from these two eventually.
more on this later depending on what other fish i am able to get and what this spawn produces. 

i put them together in a 10 gal with about 4 gals of water some fake plants and half styrofoam cup. the first day was just alot of chasing and the second day they spawned during the day. i watched her eat alot of the eggs but had to leave on some errands. i was a little down because i feared she would eat them all or maybe they were eating them because of a problem with the eggs.

the female is named Catelyn. she was slightly yellow and black with a turquoise iridescence. After conditioning she became more black.










the male is name Gilbert. (my gf names my fish)


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## marktrc

when i came home i was unable to tell if there were any eggs in the nest or if they had eatten them all. she was skinny so i took her out. his nest was huge. it came out of the cup and filled about 20% of the tank. he was constantly under the nest so i had hope.


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## Fabian

Good luck!


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## marktrc

thanks Fabian =)

then 2 days later i saw tails. i tried to take pics but my phone cam is not good enough. 

mistake #1. i had 2 large fake plants in there but decided that it would be too hard to clean the tank. i wanted to switch them out for smaller ones. so i reached in and slowly pulled out the plants. this was a problem because even being extra careful it moved the nest. the surface of the water is somehow connected almost like a film on it. i think its cause of his bubble nest spit or something lol. anyway the whole nest spread out. luckily Gilbert was a great dad and did not panic. he calmly added to his bubble nest under the cup and slowly gathered all of the fry and hung them back under the nest. phew.

mistake #2 i decided to start bbs early. since my gf has a cat, i had to place the bbs bottles on the top of the fridge. we have a small apartment with little space. they did not hatch after 2 days. i decided to get another bottle of eggs from a different source. the first 24 hours showed no signs of hatching. i moved everything to a diff area that was warmer. bam.. hatched.
im not sure if it is the eggs or the heat or what. i will figure i out after i do a few more experimental batches. 

in the mean time i tried frozen bbs. they hardly ate any of it. i tried some decaps. no dice. luckily i was able to get a microworm culture. they began eating that and i threw in some java moss from a diff tank so hopefully there was some infusoria that came with it. 

and now im up to date.

here they are eating mw


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## Fabian

Good number.


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## Pearl2011

:shock:Those little white dots are the fry?!


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## marktrc

Yes I think most of them are. Some might be reflections. I found 3 dead total over 1 week.

On a different subject. I had to siphon the tank twice already because I had trouble with the food. At first I siphoned 1-3 every now and then. Luckily tpocicat told me to put a. piece of pantyhose on it. It worked great. Ty tpocicat.


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## dramaqueen

Your male and female are beautiful.


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## marktrc

dramaqueen said:


> Your male and female are beautiful.


Thanks dramaqueen. I like them. The female is bossy. I put her in a sorority and she's the only one that caused trouble. Now shes a little calmer but at first she was bad.

The male is the king of bubble nest. He's a good daddy.


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## dramaqueen

Maybe she's calmer now that she's been bred. lol


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## marktrc

dramaqueen said:


> Maybe she's calmer now that she's been bred. lol


Are we still talking about fish? :lol:


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## tpocicat

marktrc said:


> Yes I think most of them are. Some might be reflections. I found 3 dead total over 1 week.
> 
> On a different subject. I had to siphon the tank twice already because I had trouble with the food. At first I siphoned 1-3 every now and then. Luckily tpocicat told me to put a. piece of pantyhose on it. It worked great. Ty tpocicat.


You're welcome, always happy to help when I can. 
3 dead in 1 week is great is a very low number. You're doing great!


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## marktrc

after more experimentation it turns out the brine shrimp eggs i bought from a lps was bad. i bought a diff brand from a diff lps and they are much better.

seems that feeding bbs leaves more mess on the bottom of the tank. maybe im over feeding the bbs. i will try and feed less from now on.

feeding microworms seems much neeter. 

i culled some of the smaller ones. they either weren't eating or had some developmental problems. they were weak and easy to siphon up. 

there appears to be more then 100 left. maybe even closer to 200. its impossible to count at this time.


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## RandyTheBettaFish

I can't wait to see how they turn out! Good luck


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## marktrc

RandyTheBettaFish said:


> I can't wait to see how they turn out! Good luck


Thanks. I want to see what these grow into as well.


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## dramaqueen

marktrc said:


> Are we still talking about fish? :lol:


Lol who else would I be talking about?


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## marktrc

Removed about 8 more under developed fry.
Also trying to feed more bbs instead of mws to avoid the dreaded no ventrals.
I think they actually ate a little bit of decaps this time too. 

I love to see the little orange bellies.  Will try to take more pics on Friday when I don't work.


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## marktrc

These fry are 2 1/2 weeks. I think they are a little under developed because of I was having trouble with the food at first and recently sometimes they only get fed once a day because of my work schedule.








This next image is somewhat disturbing. Some fry did not develope and this one is eating another. Yuck!









Sorry for the giant pics. This iPad is unfamiliar to me.


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## Fabian

0.0 This is the first time i heard a larger fry eating a smaller one.


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## marktrc

They have started to eat a lot. I am going to raise the water level and hope they grow faster. I also started an air stone yesterday. They don't seem to be eating much of the decaps yet.


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## tpocicat

Unfortunately, if some of the fry are big enough, they will eat their siblings. After all, to them it's still food.


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## marktrc

I find myself staring at them a lot so I made a little video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VkI7q28yvhY


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## SDragon

I love your daddy! On a side note, how did you post the pics from your IPad? That's what I have but I'm not sure how to get the pics on.


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## marktrc

I think I used the photobucket app. I believe if I went to photobucket directly there was no upload button. I'm at work so I can't use my ipad now.

And thanks. I like the dad too. I'm hoping that some of the spawn comes out nice enough to breed back to him to get a pastel line going. I don't like the females topline so much but she was the best I could find in Hawaii for what in trying to achieve.


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## SDragon

Ok thanks I will have to try that. Oh a pastel line would be so pretty. Wow I just noticed you live in Hawaii. I am so jealous. Well she isnt too bad.


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## marktrc

It's 3 weeks and my fish are slowly growing. By adding in decaps every time I feed bbs or mws I have been able to make most of them eat decaps. I think the smaller ones still prefer live food though. 

One thing I notice is with decaps, the fish often chew and spit out part of the decaps. This leads to a lot more rubbish on the bottom of the tank. I know that they are eating the decaps because their little stomachs become orange. It just leaves a mess. This has lead to stinker water and a need to siphon and change water almost everyday. I estimate over 100 fry in my 10 gal that is 3/4s full. I will be transferring the majority of them to an outside 30gal tub at my dads that I had prepared earlier. So tmr afternoon I should have about 30 left in this tank. Then hopefully in another couple weeks I can transfer these into a 20-30 gal.


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## marktrc

Bad photos








Very bad lol


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## indjo

Congrats on a successful spawn. Keep up the good work.

Pictures are great - they show fry quite clearly.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Thats awesome i can't wait untill i can breed bettas i'm almost ready!


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## marktrc

thanks indjo and beautifulbetta123.

since there were too many in the 10 gal. i decided to take out the biggest and the majority of the smaller ones and transferred them to grow out tubs. the water is really green but i had guppies living happily in there so i think its fine.

i had read this interview. http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=893&fb_source=message
it says the first big bettas aren't usually the best. i am going to try to verify this. i will keep the first 7 in a seperate tank.

i also am keeping 30 in the original spawning 10 gal tank in my apartment.

these are the majority of them after i netted.









they went in this tub.









and the 7 biggest went into this 10 gal


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## indjo

Never really took notice, but occasionally I do find the best quality to be smaller. In fact I recently had this runt that was 1/3 of the largest one. He finally grew full size and became the best formed out of the batch.

Just wanted to point out that betta's and guppy's needs can be very different. Don't always assume that if guppies could live in certain waters so can bettas. I've lost whole batches due to this line of logic. Just be careful.


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## marktrc

ok ty on the guppy vs betta info. that tub was my plan from the beginning anyway. i hope some of them survive. ill find out later i guess.


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## marktrc

*looks at fry* grow faster and don't be so picky on food already!


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## Kelly0727

Dont you just hate waiting? lol Cant wait to see how your fry turn out


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## marktrc

I'm starting to are blue iridescence on some of the light ones. I just can't capture it on can yet. Its way easier to care for 30+ then 100+ in the 10 gal.


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## BeautifulBetta123

congrats thats awesome i can't wait to see some pics of the babies once they get color!


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## MollyJean

I'm wondering why you culled the smallest ones so soon. Please don't take this as any form of attack. I'm still learning the little details of breeding and love getting different points of view.


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## marktrc

MollyJean said:


> I'm wondering why you culled the smallest ones so soon. Please don't take this as any form of attack. I'm still learning the little details of breeding and love getting different points of view.


hi, well to answer your question. i am not very experienced with breeding bettas. my spawn was rather large. well to me it was large. i am guessing near 200. because of this there was a large difference in size between the smallest and largest of the fry. the larger ones began half eating the smallest ones. (they could not swallow the heads) also i would watch them and i could see that some were not eating microworms and were not growing. i would soon find these dead. about 5 a day. im guessing either they were starviing, not developing correctly or being half eaten. the dead bodies were just one more pollutant. so i began culling the ones that were tiny and not growing as a sort of preventative. 

my fry are now a month old. the ones (about 40) i kept in the 10 gal at my apartment are doing well but are on the small side compared to other peoples spawn logs. i will post pics later today.

on a sad note, the ones i put in tub/tank at my dads house are probably dead. i think i moved them too early or the water was not right or both. i do not see any of them in the tub. i also had the 7 biggest in a 10 gal tank outside. i do not see them either. the water is green so im hoping there may be a few hiding but i really doubt it. next time ill prepare differently for a large spawn since ill have a larger apartment.


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## MollyJean

marktrc said:


> hi, well to answer your question. i am not very experienced with breeding bettas. my spawn was rather large. well to me it was large. i am guessing near 200. because of this there was a large difference in size between the smallest and largest of the fry. the larger ones began half eating the smallest ones. (they could not swallow the heads) also i would watch them and i could see that some were not eating microworms and were not growing. i would soon find these dead. about 5 a day. im guessing either they were starviing, not developing correctly or being half eaten. the dead bodies were just one more pollutant. so i began culling the ones that were tiny and not growing as a sort of preventative.
> 
> my fry are now a month old. the ones (about 40) i kept in the 10 gal at my apartment are doing well but are on the small side compared to other peoples spawn logs. i will post pics later today.
> 
> on a sad note, the ones i put in tub/tank at my dads house are probably dead. i think i moved them too early or the water was not right or both. i do not see any of them in the tub. i also had the 7 biggest in a 10 gal tank outside. i do not see them either. the water is green so im hoping there may be a few hiding but i really doubt it. next time ill prepare differently for a large spawn since ill have a larger apartment.


Thank you. It does seem like a logical reason, less dead fish means less cleaning. I have a 3 week old spawn that is quite large. I loose count at 100 and there are still 20-30 left, so something about 120. So far I have found 10 dead (2 of these where quite large, which had me worried, but it hasn't happened again) and I tend to check 5 or 6 times a day. I haven't really seen a decrease in numbers, though there are some fry that are fairly small.

I have two tanks set aside, one 20 and one 30 gallon, and plan to keep the smallest ones in the 10 gallon they are in now, then divide the larger ones between the other two tanks, to allow them to grow faster. I suppose it's a matter of space and money, I have the tanks and room to spread out the fry, so see no reason to cull so many early on. Though with less space, it would likely be different.

Thank you for the explanation. And I'd like to reserve at least 2 of your spawn  A boy and a girl, if you don't mind, the parents are just beautiful!


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## marktrc

Phone pics


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## marktrc

@mollyjean thanks. I'm glad you like my fish. You'd be welcome to have some but I live in Hawaii. The shipping would prob be $40. The fish would be free. I don't think it would be money well spent for you. Esp because my fish are not top quality and questionable genes. I'm hoping that one day thru hardwork I might have high quality fish. maybe in the future we can swap fish


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## LadyVictorian

Can't wait to see them all grown up. I have a little half moon double tail male, can't be older then 2 months he's still so tiny. I love half moons and I certainly love the double tails as well now. Becoming a big fan of them. Certainly stalking this thread.


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## MollyJean

marktrc said:


> @mollyjean thanks. I'm glad you like my fish. You'd be welcome to have some but I live in Hawaii. The shipping would prob be $40. The fish would be free. I don't think it would be money well spent for you. Esp because my fish are not top quality and questionable genes. I'm hoping that one day thru hardwork I might have high quality fish. maybe in the future we can swap fish


I had no idea you lived in Hawaii. You're right, probably not money well spent. But maybe when we're both old pros at this we'll do a trade.  They're still beautiful fish. I can't wait to see the fry all grown up.


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## marktrc

Hi ladyvictorian, I like double tails a lot too. I plan to breed a female offspring back to the dad. Should have some dts.

I can now see some ventrals. . Unable to capture it on film though.


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## LadyVictorian

Can't wait to see pics of that. So excited now.


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## BeautifulBetta123

I have been watching this thread and your breeding pair is beautiful anyways you doing so good i can't wait to see the outcome of your spawn!


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## marktrc

About a month and a week now. I am starting to see some darker ones and even a few with slight red. Some look just light yellow.

This is a random pic of one. Nothing particularly special except that he paused for the pic. They are hard to take pics of cause they keep moving.


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## tpocicat

Great picture!


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## marktrc

Ty beautifulbetta123. I'm hoping they grow up nice and healthy. 

Ty tpocicat. Its taken with my 2 year old Samsung cell phone. See you don't need a macro lens. We are all waiting for your pics.


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## tpocicat

I have a Samsung smiley, I don't know how you do it, but I certainly don't get the results you do. (Must be the person behind the camera).


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## MoonShadow

Love the pair, especially the male! I can't wait to see how the babies turn out!!


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## marktrc

Thanks moon shadow. I see red on some of them. I guess that's what happens when I breed pet store fish. They are growing quickly now. 

I guess breeding pet store bettas is like a box of chocolates...


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## tpocicat

If the red is like one of my lines, the red will disappear in a few weeks. Any way, I think the box of chocolates is fun.


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## marktrc

The fry are steadily growing for the most part. Though some are still tiny. Doing 25% water changes almost daily and 95% once every 7-10 days. I am feeding them hikari guppy pellets, decaps and mws 2 times a day. They are very active so I am unable to take pics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTlAsRyJ_fI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## marktrc

About 7 weeks and a few days. A few of them look like their caudals are crown tailed slightly. Is this crown tail in their past or do they get a little uneven as they grow. Here are some bad pics. Both parents don't show signs of crown tail.


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## VictorP

Nice mustard gas!


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## tpocicat

It could simply be that the fins haven't caught up with the rays. A little more time will tell.


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## Talen

They are looking good


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## BeautifulBetta123

OMG so adorable you have a good number too! have you started jarring the males yet? If you have I would love to see pics of them!


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## lillyandquigly

Beautiful parents and fry!


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## BettaBaited

I also like the mustard gas! They are all looking wonderful!


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## marktrc

Thanks for the nice comments. They are growing fast in this 10gal. I can't imagine what would happen in a 20L. 

I have not jarred yet but that mustard gas is nasty. Always biting everyone. I might have to jar it.

There is a lot more red in this spawn then I thought. I hope some of it disappears. I can see some of the bad form from the mom in some of the fry. This is a good learning experience for me overall but I think next time ill be a lot pickier on the pair I breed.


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## Kelly0727

Just popping in to see how the fry are doing.  Any updates? Any jarred yet?


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## MoonShadow

So cute!! How are they doing now??? Y'all are giving me breeding fever!! Can't wait for my new breeders to arrive!


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## marktrc

The fish are doing well but out growing the 10 gal. I'm hoping to move then to a 20L in 2 weeks. Looks like the red is gonna stay. They are very lively. So hard to take pics.










This red guy is bending his dorsal. It's bigger then it looks.


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## BettaBaited

You're doing a great job!  Have you started to jar yet? It looks like the red guy & quite a few others are big enough. That would help make more space for the rest.


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## tpocicat

Those fry look great! I love seeing so many colors in a spawn. Good job.


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## Creat

Such fun colors


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## Maddybelle

Any updates? Your fry look lovely, and very healthy!


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## marktrc

Sorry I haven't updated for awhile. I have been moving apartments and then got sick. Almost well now.

I finally moved them to a 20L tank. They look so much less Crowded. I have been feeding them hikari micro pellets and guppy pellets. Oh and ocean nutrition brine shrimp flakes. They always seem so hungry. I am unsure of how often to do water changes now but ill figure it out. 

well there is bad news and bad news. Some of the fish look clamped fins. I might add salt if they still look the same tmr. I changed the water. We will see what happens. 

Other bad news is the form looks worse as they are growing. Skinny dorsals, long anal fins, bad topline. My fault for not starting with better fish and unknown genes. Will definately be more picky on parents of next spawn. Luckily the people who wanted fish, just want them as pets for their inlaws etc.

Colors continue to come in. All kinds of red. I thought there would be no red as I didn't see it on the parents. Will post pics or video in a few days. In the mean time..trying to get a melano gene male from a local breeder. That will most likely be my next spawn log in Nov.


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## marktrc

Had trouble taking pics. Made a short video. 

They seem to be tolerating 2 tsp salt per gal. They are getting less clamps. Changing half the water per day. Added sponge filter. Will add more plants in about a week, when I remove the salt.

Got new breeding pair from local breeder. Will be posting pics soon. I am starting to condition them. They are siblings black and blue. 

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?featur...ch?v=A3JEwZItZx0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Creat

Love that little yellow one  What a great variety


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## marktrc

they are still growing. the smaller ones show color and fin growth. giving away the larger ones to friends and family this week.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=mhee&v=bZiMWoUIMM8


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## Creat

Are you keeping any for further breeding? Some of those show potential


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## marktrc

the original goal is to get a pastel line going. i will take the best opaque female with no red and breed back to the DT dad. but thats about it. 

i am going to work on a melano line next. i have them in the spawn tank now but so far just chasing going on. ill log it if they actually spawn.


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## PinkGuava

Wow look at all those colors! I like!


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## Maddybelle

I can't watch the videos! =( I get sent to the mobile site, and then when I click Watch Video, it says that the address wasn't understood.


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## marktrc

Bad pictures but here they are. The males seem to be super delta I think. The colors are still coming in. I need to jar as some are getting too beat up.


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## marktrc

If you live in Hawaii (oahu) and want free bettas, just let me know. This spawn is not show quality of course but I think they would be good as pets. They are healthy and active.

Sorry maddy, I think it's something on your side but I'm no expert. I provided some blurry pics for you.


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## Maddybelle

Haha, I finally got the vids to work! I love that mustard gas male! Its so cool how much variation you got in this spawn - I've never seen mustard gas, red, blue, and yellow all in the same spawn before. Must be some crazy genes.


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