# thoughts on these breeding pairs



## titolatino1970 (Mar 11, 2011)

ok im take the giant plunge literally hmpk x pk giants siblings f1's























vt project dtvt Xhmvt short anal fin is the goal










he's bred by char56 shes bred by me hmvt he's gold yellow shes gold white with lite turquoise irredecence her dad was a yellow gold hm dragon he also had that blue tinge mom white lite turquoise vt 










and last but not least hes got 2 choices this male hes also a giant from the same spawn as above EVILVOG i believe correct me if im wrong

first female











her brother sorry for the water spots










and char56 black orcid ct female











thoughts and criticsm appreciatied thank for looking tito
please note first 2 pairs are conditiong 1 week the last 2 siblings are conditioned chars girl needs another 2 weeks or so ty


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

First pair- looks decent, you could get a decent spawn out of that pair

The second male- His fins are a HUGE MESS. It looks like someone sold you a delta that has decided to bite his tail. I wouldnt spread those genes ever. Ever. 

The female below him the vt is cute. 

What are your plans for the other 3 females? I got a little confused.


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## VictorP (Jun 5, 2012)

Pair 2 Uneven fins, long anal, long dorsal IMO Chard56 betta are pet quality.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I like the first pair. They are decent.. 

The second males fins are a huge mess. He should not be bred. He looks like a fish I could get from the local Petco..

The last pairs pictures are too blurry to judge

I don't see where the orchid comes into play but I don't like her form at all. Very messy fins and traits shouldn't be passed down


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

VictorP said:


> Pair 2 Uneven fins, long anal, long dorsal IMO Chard56 betta are pet quality.


I completely agree. He's kinda rude too. He doesn't know how to produce TRUE show quality fish


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Pair #1 ok 

Pair #2 - what do you mean HMVT...... you can't have a HM and a VT on one fish. HM is the 180* spread on caudal and a VT is that long curved veil like caudal. 
You can have a DTVT - a classic DT that once made me obsessed with DT
So - what are your goals for this pair?

Pair #3 - I vote for the first girl, only because she is the same type as the male (siblings).


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

I don't mean to start an argument,but didn't Chard just win a bunch of awards in Jax.?


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

No offense but those pictures don't lie

Those fins arent breeding quality even if the one you bought them from won awards. 
Not saying he didn't deserve the awards. All I'm saying is that fish has bad fins and shouldn't be bred.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

GhostFeather said:


> I don't mean to start an argument,but didn't Chard just win a bunch of awards in Jax.?


The fact that he won an award doesn't mean he is a good breeder... There aren't lots of nice entries.. Sometimes he could be the only entry in that class. IMO none of his fish are nice enough to win best of show


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## GhostFeather (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree with you,he probably will not sell his good ones anyhow.
Look at his prices compaired to some of the really good breeders.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

His prices are very low because they aren't quality IMO. Also, if you were to look at pics of the winning fish, and study the form/standards you would see how bad quality his fish are and how he should NOT have won


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## titolatino1970 (Mar 11, 2011)

thank you guys for your help lololol


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

I agree
Most of the fish that chard sell look worst then the fish I cull
Fish like that I won't give to my friends
Really bad form
When u really think of the price
U can get one cheaper at a lfs(just sit n wait for new shipment n plus u don't have to pay shipment)
The price u pay is what u get
The Cheaper the fish the lower the quality(most of the time)


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> I agree
> Most of the fish that chard sell look worst then the fish I cull
> Fish like that I won't give to my friends
> Really bad form
> ...


Agree 100%


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## titolatino1970 (Mar 11, 2011)

so what do you guys think of this male for the second pair to replace the dtvt










this is the second female hmvt brother and here his bubblenest


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

hmvt? It can only be Halfmoon or not halfmoon

Halfmoon is defined by 180 degree spread or D formation of the caudal fin. Anything less than that such as vt would not be a halfmoon. 

Its kind of hard to be able to tell you if the fins on a VT are good. Simply because there is no show class for VT. So there is no "form" to study from and improve. I believe the "best" would be the spade tail form of VT. 

Personally unless you have massive amounts of people who want a VT. This might be a money pit. When breeding VT, you have to remember that people can get them at petco/petsmart for $.99 -$2.00. So you're at the mercy of people in your area because most breeders won't want your fry. If you want to. you could spawn, and control the amount of babies by taking the female out early, and cull hard. That way you end up getting to your personal goal (not entirely sure what your goal for these are it was kind of hard to read) without spending TONS of money on jars and fry food. It will still take alot of time with water changes and culturing food but at least you will have some stress taken off of it. 

On all other tail forms

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/home.imp

That is a good site to study from.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

He show to much sign of vt.
Personal I won't breed him
Really lacking of fin
If I was u I'll stay away from vt
They sit for to long to sell
When I was breeding vt
I sell them for less then a dallor each
I have a hard time moving them
If a fish sit more then 6 month it been sitting to long


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Ok... I am not an expert in any way shape or form.

On the DT pair from Chard56: Yes the fins are uneven but depending on what you want to do with the spawns, and they can be fixed in time with fry being bred to the right fish to get what you want. Use your best judgement and take advise from everyone, but use bettas in your program that have traits you want in your line. If you want instant gratification, and perfect fish in just a gen. or two, the DT won't be the way to go imo.

I'm not sure what Chard56 might have done to some of you guys, but to me it seems pretty rude to bash another forum member, no matter who it is, in public posts. 

I'm sure I will get my head ripped off for saying so, but c'mon guys what makes the forum such a nice place to me is how kind and helpful everyone is to each other. If you really feel you need to bash someone it's probably best done in PM, *unless* it's a public warning about a member in general. (Like the aquabid seller who sells one eyed, damaged, bettas - "we just dip in the net and get what comes out."... ugh.)

just makes me sad


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

I wasnt bashing anyone. I just said that those fins are bad. Nothing more Nothing less. and to stay away from vt


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Personal I don't know who chard is or every talk to him
I see what he sell to other member on this form n saying it this n that
Bottom line the fin don't fall into the category to what he lable them as
For a small time breeder he really over price his fish
Second on ab if I count correctly he have fish from 6 different spawn on there
That what he saying he can produce
I can be wrong but it look like he is a reseller
Buying from lfs n remartking them
Wait up
Is chard a guy or a woman????


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## titolatino1970 (Mar 11, 2011)

oh no im not tripping mira i wanted advise and i thankyou guys if your gonna give it to me it better be raw just asking im still gonna breed the giants and im not sure but i might give the black orcid ct fm a male giant bf im aborting my vts and thankyou migente


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I suggest you concentrate on the giants. Work on getting them big. When you have a stable size, cross breed to a good formed female.


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## titolatino1970 (Mar 11, 2011)

ok i will thankyou bro


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## indianabetta (May 3, 2012)

Ya there are alot of people who like Chards fish, but im not a fan, he has said on another forum that he never buys quality stock, that he only uses local petstore lines.... and that he hasnt benefited much from being a member of IBC, until now I guess, even though he was the only one who had competed at that show...I would never buy another fish from him (I did once) because it died nearly right away, and so did several that he sent Timberland on this forum (which he had described as the best he had of his "purple" halfmoons, and they werent even purple)


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## VictorP (Jun 5, 2012)

I like those giants! Nice thick bodied fish what would be described as "cichlid" body structure.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

indianabetta said:


> Ya there are alot of people who like Chards fish, but im not a fan, he has said on another forum that he never buys quality stock, that he only uses local petstore lines.... and that he hasnt benefited much from being a member of IBC, until now I guess, even though he was the only one who had competed at that show...I would never buy another fish from him (I did once) because it died nearly right away, and so did several that he sent Timberland on this forum (which he had described as the best he had of his "purple" halfmoons, and they werent even purple)


yep. they are other colored fish. he is taking the picture with flash


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Mo said:


> yep. they are other colored fish. he is taking the picture with flash


The flash is not the problem, it's the color balance. You can get true color with flash. His photography really needs improvement.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

sorry i'm late getting to this... all the fish you got from me are siblings


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