# Spawned once again... with a different method



## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

The week before last I bred my two betta with ease and little effort from my part, besides the conditioning. I thought maybe I just got lucky, but as of today they bred again. I have tried breeding multiple times with the usual method (half tank with the female encase for a few days) before, but it never happened for me. So after multiple failed attempt, i tried something new. I kept on thinking to myself what was the use of keeping the female in the jar/divider/what ever one may use. After reading how "OldFishLady" breed her bettas in a natural planted tank, i tried the same thing. I was a bit skeptical at first so I only kept the tank half full and no substrate, but densely planted. After i conditioned both the bettas, I just threw them into the tank. They spawned the morning after.

If you have followed me in my other post, all of the fry from that patch had died, I have no clue as to why, but I'm pretty positive it had nothing to do with the set-up and more of maybe a parasite, young female, or food issue with the VE.

A few days ago, I cleaned up the tank and set it up differently. "OldFishLady" had spawn her bettas successfully in a natural planted tank, so I thought maybe i should stop being a skeptic. I didn't go with the full Diana Walstad NPT, but I had some left over eco-complete and used that as the substrate. I filled the tank all the way up and conditioned it with IAL. For flora I had two mother Java Fern, so I threw them both in there, as well as two large floating Water Wisteria, several bundles of 'foot long' hornwort, and some anubias on a drift wood. I threw the conditioned pair in there yesterday and I woke up to the pair spawning once more. 

One would think that the water depth would be too much of a hassle for the male to keep up with the eggs when they come out, but actually its not as bad as people believe it to be. Because there's more water depth it takes longer for the eggs to sink all the way to the bottom, thus giving more time for the male to collect them and preventing them from getting lost in the substrate, though I doubt it would be a problem if an egg did so happen to sink to the bottom because of the color contrast between the egg and the substrate (white egg, black sub).

I hope this time I will have better luck with rearing the fry. I didn't start this thread to try to prove that one method is better than the other, but more so of "theres more than one way" kind of thing and mainly because I am really excited as this is my second successful spawn and wanted to share this adventure with my fellow betta enthuses. :-D

There is a downside to this method though, horrible bubble nest. lol

Thank you for reading.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

ireland said:


> I hope this time I will have better luck with rearing the fry. I didn't start this thread to try to prove that one method is better than the other, but more so of *"theres more than one way"* kind of thing and mainly because I am really excited as this is my second successful spawn and wanted to share this adventure with my fellow betta enthuses. :-D


You got that right - everyone has their own method. And heavily planted in shallow tubs seems to work best for me. But sometimes I use iceboxes almost filled to the top.

Hope nothing goes wrong this time. Keep us posted.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Congrats on the new spawn.....lots of good ways to spawn this species...it finding what works best for you and the breeders........

I found this method to work best for me in several ways-prevents premature egg drops by using natural dividers with live plants, production of microorganism for fry food from live plants, quality water due to filtration from the live plants...all help to create a good environment that give the fry a good first start and strong immune response

As you found out water level doesn't cause any problems-usually low water level is used because the male has really heavy fins and struggles to swim to and fro after the eggs-but if he has been properly conditioned he shouldn't tire due to egg gathering and healthy eggs once in the nest shouldn't fall very often either and with the added room for the male he won't by accident disturb the nest causing the eggs to fall...or at least that has been my experience........

When I gave a male the choice between low water level and high water level in a container I had outside sitting on a slope..... he picked the deeper water......

I don't wait on a nest-often mine will spawn an make a nest as the egg numbers grow-I let them pick what they want to use and try to keep everything in the tank natural-almost always he will pick water lettuce for his nesting site with the added benefit of microorganism that form on the roots as well as a place for the fry to rest as they hatch and start the free swim stage....

The biggest problem I have with my spawning tanks...is that I sometimes can't find all the fry and oddly enough when I do transfer the fry as they grow and using the tank again to spawn....... the new pair will not eat any of the fry I left in the tank due to not finding them or at least not all of them...I always pull a fry or two, three out later to keep them from eating the newborns...lol......

This isn't the method for everyone but it works great for me....


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you indjo, I've been wanting to try those tube outdoors too, but the weather in my area is still undecided if she wants to end this love affair shes got going on. One day its hot, the next its cold.

And thank you Oldfishlady, it was you who actually inspired this set-up. As you said, mine were the same with the nest, it was the size of a penny when they started and when the spawning was finish the nest have grew into the size of a quarter. I wanted to keep it as natural as possible, but I couldn't get my hands on some water lettuce and end up using the "half styrofoam cup", which still did the job.

I will keep you guys posted.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

What works for one person may not work for another... and vice versa. I'm glad you found a method that is working for you. Good luck!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you dramaqueen, what worrys me now is raising the fry. That is what I have yet to succeed.


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## NIB BETTA (Apr 21, 2010)

I used this same method. I released the male first, observed their behavior while she was still in the jar for five minutes then released the female. It took my pair two days to spawn. My only caution to those that may try this is to observe the pair for at least 15 - 20 minutes before you walk away. After that, be patient. They will figure it out. 

Good luck on raising your fry. Water changes seem to be the key for me. And I add a little bit of salt with each water change.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Don't worry, OFL, 1fish2fish, indjo, Martinsmommy, Dragonlady and our other breeders will get you through it.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you all. The eggs hatched today and all of the fry are in the hanging stage.


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Congrats! Hopefully nothing gets these babies  Can't wait to hear about them growing up!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you monroe. All of the fry are horizontal-free swimming today. Should I feed them anything or should I just let them explore and eat micro critters in the tank first? And should I take out the father or take the more natural route and leave him in there with the fry and just feed him to make sure hunger doesn't give him any strange idea?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Depending on how mature the tank is, number of live plants, number of fry and if you have lots of common snails to help produce lots of microorganisms...you may not need to add food yet...in my natural planted 10gal I usually don't even add any extra food for a week or more after the fry are free swimming...but my spawning tanks are really mature.....I watch the fry and observe their tummies...if they are nice and round with little black dots...I know they have plenty of micro-critters they are feeding on....

As far a leaving or removing the male....for me this varies-if I know he is a good father I leave him until I need him for another spawn-I like to leave the male in as long as I can in most cases and it also depends on how important that spawn is too....sometimes- if those fry are really important I remove the male sometimes as early as the day of or day after hatch and if the male is unknown to me or his maternal skills...I remove early...it varies from spawn to spawn.......I always feed my males before, during and after......


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Hmmm I spent hours starring at the tank and the father seems to do a good job and doesn't seem to have a taste for his children, so I'm deciding to leave him in there with them. I'm not 100% confident that the tank has fully mature because I did washed and sterilized the tank a few weeks earlier, but put in plants, driftwood, and snails from a well established planted tank, so I am going to feed them microworms just to be on the safe side. Thank you Oldfishlady.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

I thought since everyone has been so helpfull and supportive I should try to get a picture of the tank. Not quite the quality I wanted, but that's what happens when you have IAL leaves darkening the water, lots of floating plants blocking the lights even more, and especially with the use of a camera phone.

When I said "fill to the top" I actually meant almost fill to the top. I had to leave a 1-2inch gap so that I could fit the styrofoam cup (which I took out this morning). And the reason why the thermometer is sort of out there is because I was trying to make room for the styrofoam cup.


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## Ethan (Dec 3, 2010)

Awesome breeding setup


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

Yay for free swimming fry! I think you will have better luck this time.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you both, and I think so too. This time around I can actually see the fry eating the infusoria and microworms, it was quite pleasing.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It sounds like they are doing well.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes they are, they'll be one week tomarow


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

The numbers are down to somewhere around 20, which was where I had suspected the numbers to be. The remaining fry are strong and active, but there are a few that are lethargic and doesn't seem like they are going to make it. I started to feed them BBS today and they seem to be taking them very well (orange bellys). I will keep you guys posted with their progress.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Aww, I hope they all make it!


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

If you have them in a heavily planted tank loaded with infusoria, there are always at least double the number of fry you first estimate. The fry should certainly be ready for freshly hatched baby brine shrimp now. It might be a good idea to remove the male now if you have not done so already.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> Aww, I hope they all make it!


Thank you, I hope so too.



Dragonlady said:


> If you have them in a heavily planted tank loaded with infusoria, there are always at least double the number of fry you first estimate. The fry should certainly be ready for freshly hatched baby brine shrimp now. It might be a good idea to remove the male now if you have not done so already.


I moved the male out yesterday so they are on there own now. And yes there were a lot of infusoria, but I checked this yesterday morning and the infusoria population was almost depleted, that was actually the reason why I went ahead and fed them the BBS. I was surprise the numbers were where I had estimated them to be too, so I counted them again and found a number of them hiding around some Hornwort far in the back. I counted 36 this time, still a bit low, but I'm satisfied with the numbers.


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## AkiGari (Apr 17, 2011)

This experience has made me understand my own situation a bit. Though, I "tossed them in the tub" together, unconditioned, no almond leaves, etc. My fish spawned. I put a little saltwater mix in the tub. I hope that the fry survive. 
Sounds like I could loose them. 
I wish you the best with your spawning experience.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you AkiGari, I wish the best to your fry too


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

An update on the fry.

The number seems to be the same, but whats new is they have past the 14 day mark, they're two weeks old now. They are doing well, very active and I can see growth, some more than others. It is quite a pleasant sight to see them chow down on the BBS.

One question though, I feed them BBS twice daily, once in the morning, usually at 9-10am, and again at 4pm, right before the lights goes out, does this seem adequate or should I try giving them both BBS and microworms to get a variety of food (not both during the same feed of course, BBS in the morning then microworms in the evening or vice versa)?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

A variety of diet is better for the fry since each food provides different nutritional value. Further the fry are used to varieties thus should accept new food quicker. BUT feeding one type of food during certain periods of their development is also ok.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you indjo, since both food is at my disposal I shall alternate between the two then.


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## AkiGari (Apr 17, 2011)

NIB BETTA said:


> it out.
> 
> Good luck on raising your fry. Water changes seem to be the key for me. And I add a little bit of salt with each water change.


This is good for me to know. I thought that adding it after the hatching would be a good thing. I guess I'll keep doing it to keep fry from getting sick. ;-)


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## AkiGari (Apr 17, 2011)

*Thanks at 60+fry*



ireland said:


> Thank you AkiGari, I wish the best to your fry too


We're hanging in, going on start of 2nd week since spawn!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

AkiGari said:


> We're hanging in, going on start of 2nd week since spawn!


That's good to hear. Another thing I forgot to put on the update was that their Caudal and Pectoral fins are starting to develop. I was very delighted to see them starting to take more form


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that they are doing well and are growing.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Three weeks old and everyone has got their caudal fin now. All are of decent size, some bigger some smaller, but there is one that is just a freak of nature lol he's huge. The water changes seems to be doing them good.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Congrats!!!
Pictures would be nice..... lol.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

indjo said:


> Congrats!!!
> Pictures would be nice..... lol.


Thank you, as soon as i get my camera fix pictures will be up.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

4 weeks old as of today and they took frozen bbs very well with no hesitation. Sorry for not being able to post any pictures up, I decided to get a new camera instead of fixing the old one. Not really sure when I will get new one, but hopefully soon.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't wait for pics. lol


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

The ventral fin are starting to show. I saw it this morning on one of the bigger ones so i checked them all. All of the big guys have got them, but the punny siblings who still look like tadpoles are still.. behind, they look as if they were still 2 weeks old.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Im sorry you guys I will not be able to post any pictures up. I have decided to go into macro photography and will be saving up for a pricy lens. My phone couldn't capture the fry without blurring and I don't have a digital camera.

But an update on the fry, week 5 and some are starting to show some reds.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

That's ok. Just keep us posted.  It sounds like they're doing well.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

They are, some a bit more than others. I just bought a 20 gallon long as a grow out a few days ago for $15. Trying to cycle it first before I put them in.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Sorry, it has been awhile since I updated this spawn. They are 8 weeks old now and their colors are showing very well. They are in a 20 gallon long grow out now.

Tank









Angle









Right Side









Left Side









I tried my best to take picture of the frys, but the phone camera just do them no justice.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Very nice.....they look good and your tank looks great.....I like the black substrate...what kind is it?


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you OFL. Its Seachem Flourite Black Sand. It's not as complete as Diana Walstad's method nor something expensive like Aquasoil, but it does a good job and I too love the black sand look. At first I thought I was going to have trouble planting with the substrate, but it turns out to be easier than the substrates I have tried before.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I like it....I may have some of that sand too....I used store credit to get some type of black sand to use as a cap on one of my 10gal several years ago and it was pretty expensive...like $25.00 for 10# I think...been awhile......lol......and one thing about the dark colored substrate is that it can really make the colors of the fish pop....and it looks cleaner than the light colored sand.......


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes it does make the color of the fish pop more  I bought 2 15lb bags at a local fish store, who I have befriended the owner, so they sold me both for $30 total. The fish waste blends in real well with the black colored sand, a plus for the eyes.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Your fry are so cute!!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you dramaqueen. I would love to post up more picture of them if I could, but that was the best I could do without a proper camera.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Your pics are just fine.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

They are 10 weeks old now and are starting to spar more frequent now, but I'm get this feeling that they are stunt. 

Two weeks after this spawned, I spawned the parents again and received a total of 128 fry, yes I actually counted them all when I caught and moved them. Due to the high number of fry living in a 10 gallon tank I decided to split the numbers in half, one half stays in the tank, the other goes into an outdoor pond. I've notice that the ones outdoors were bigger, but I never actually caught one to compare the different until today. The gap was HUGE. The frys outdoor was twice the size of the Indoors. I even caught the biggest one outdoor and compared it to the biggest indoor, the size different was actually tripled. Then I compared the champion outdoor, who was 8 weeks old, to the first batch of fry, which were 10 weeks old. The one outdoor surpasses his/her older batch by far, leaving me feeling that my 10 weeks old first batch isn't growing at it's max capacity.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have found that too.....my outdoor spawns are much bigger and grow faster than the ones indoors......


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

I haven't update this in awhile, but 25 fry are left of this batch. So far according to what I can tell, this batch only yield 2 males, but if I am not mistaken one of the male is a halfmoon with a gorgeous 180 degrees spread and coloring. I have never had any fry last this long so I don't know if his finage will stay the same or change, but they are 14 weeks old so I'm hoping he will stay as a gorgeous 180 halfmoon.

Can anyone help confirm if his finage will change or not?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

usually, when they begin to flare regularly, their fins gets better - spreads wider. Fins will only clamp (?) if it's sick. Stressed fry will keep their fins rather closed, but they do not clamp.

Congrats on your spawn.... pictures would be nice.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

I will post up a picture as soon as I can.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't wait to see pics of them!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Sorry to keep you guys waiting, but here they are.

These are the two definite Males that I am keeping. Hopefully I will be able to take pictures of the other siblings and post them up as well.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

omg they are amazing!!!!! love the first one!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you. Yeah that one is my favorite too, I like that pink/purple/red burst with the white trim. Only wish the camera was better.


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Here's some more pictures.

These are the same two as the earlier post.



















Without Florescent lighting his purple is really dead.









He gets a 10 gallon tank to himself.









I like his random black mark close to his tail.


















The other siblings.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

oh my god! i want one of those white ones!!!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you, and they are up for sale besides the first two.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

how much would they be for one of the yellow whiteish pairs? oh and who were the parents of this spawn?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

omg, they're beautiful!!


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## QueenBetta383 (Jul 23, 2011)

I hope to breed with my male, *Points to picture* with a dragon female i will be recieving shortly...and I'm a bit skeptical...I love my boy, and I don't want his fins all torn up Dx


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Just an Update.












































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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

yayyy the one is the 7th pic is gonna be mine along with a sister!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Lol my first customer. I'll try to take a picture of a blue female too. Unless u want some other color.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i want the blue female too. post pics of her!!!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Alright I'll post it up as soon as possible.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

cool.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They're beautiful!!


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## BlueEyes (Jul 19, 2011)

These fry are gorgeous. Great job.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

They have grown out to be very beauitful  Congrats on the success!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you all. Sad bc I'm not in town to admire and take care of them. They are in the care of a dear friend of mine.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

This one...ohhh, I love this one! Fantastic!


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## ireland (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you, it's one of my favorites too.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

He's beautiful!


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