# Koi Hm + fancy dragon hmpk??????????



## Crembrufundew (Jun 15, 2014)

So, 
I have been reaserching breeding bettas for 2 years and 6 months now. Wich means i am considerably knowledgeable on this subject. 
Ofcouse with my knowledge, i am not going to breed 2 walmart bettas!
After many months of web searching, i found:

Halfmoon koi betta: http://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=452922&stc=1&d=1415233617

female fancy dragon hmpk: http://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=452922&stc=1&d=1415233586

Goal for this project is to create koi offspring, about 90% koi betta(male or female) 
So is this possible with my combo? Either way i am still breeding them,but help on what the offspring would look like would be very much appreciated.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

I'm only seeing pics of the male.


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## Crembrufundew (Jun 15, 2014)

Sorry here is the female
http://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=452946&stc=1&d=1415236553

So what do you think of this pairing, would it make kois, pics of possibilities of offspring would be great thanks


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure how koi works. All I know is that they have marble background. This means that you will not have fixed colors/patterns until the marbling effect stops.

If both are fancy/koi, then you should have a majority of fancy/koi. I'm not sure about color nor pattern though. 
If the male is dragon scale, you should get regulars and partial dragons (female is not dragon).


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

From what I've heard, you'll get better results breeding a koi to a cellophane. Koi doesn't breed true, and for some reason breeding koi to koi doesn't work like it looks like it should.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That's interesting. I was told they did. . . . So they are like dalmations - dals x dals does not produce dals.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Lemme see if I can get some percentages on that. It is going to take some digging through my facebook groups, but there's a lot of "project koi" chitter chat.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Mmmkay, what I'm being told is, the percentage of Koi from a spawn of Koi x Koi is not zero, but it's not high. You will get better results breeding Koi to a Cellophane from a Koi line.


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## Crembrufundew (Jun 15, 2014)

Thank you so much for the replies.
Altho, considering all your answers, i would just like to point out that the female is a fancy hmpk. And considering your answers, she is also cellophane geno. 
My end question is what is the percentage of getting a koi with this pairing, considering only the dad is a koi.
thank you again.
Ps how would the kids look like, post pics please!!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You can't really (never 100% spot on) determine percentages of anything. IME they can lay an average of 1000 eggs but usually only 200-300 (or less) will survive to adult. So which genetic make up survived. 

Just my opinion: 
Koi = splotches of various colors on one background color. 
Fancy = anything colorful, including koi.
Dragon = thick looking scales
Mask = color cover head as well (common or non masking color has black/dark heads). 

Sorry; I wouldn't call any of the above bettas as koi. Maybe the female could be called a koi, but not the male. Both are fancy by my criteria. And the male is dragon, not the female. I don't know what color combo you'll get, but you will get colorful fry. You might even have a few kois if either one is from a koi line. Some of which will be partial dragons - meaning having some scales look thicker. And perhaps even masking like the female. Keep in mind that this is only probability.


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

the male has a lot of white going for him, while the female has barely any blue... expect a fluctuation between the distribution of white, but i dont think any of your fish will be devoid of white/blue. when your fish cello up, you can expect a few of your fry to look like this: 









the reason why Koi x Koi will produce cellophane is because Kois could be synergistic for Red black and blue suppression. the blues and blacks of most kois are almost completely suppressed, while the red barely hangs on. mating the two together probably completely removes the blues, blacks, and whatever is left of red, leaving cellos. marbling gene is probably co-dominant expression. color layer loss is probably involved to. 

tl;dr: you're probably looking at somewhere anywhere from 6.25-12.5% koi while the rest will be cellos, bicolors or cello black marbles with white, similar to the father.


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## Crembrufundew (Jun 15, 2014)

The female is not a koi, she is a fancy dragon. 
although that picture is a good representation of the babies!


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