# Fish Slithering Like a Snake to Move?



## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 3 gallons
What temperature is your tank? ~77
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Omega One betta pellets, sometimes frozen or FD bloodworms as a treat
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2-3 pellets twice a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API Stress Coat

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? It hasn't
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Very skittish. This morning when he went to swim he kind of wiggled like a snake instead of swimming normally. After that he seemed to swim fine.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Skittishness about four days ago. The slithering movement this morning. I thought he was just a skittish fish, but now I'm concerned.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I haven't
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I know of
How old is your fish (approximately)? Not sure. I've had him a bit less than two weeks

Brahms, the fish I bought at the same time as Mozart, just died. I didn't notice any real symptoms other than skitthsness, so now I'm pretty worried about Mozart. :/


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Is he eating at all?
Is Mozart in the same tank that Brahms is(divided tank?)
Did you share anything between them (net or changing cup...)
You wrote he is wiggled instead of swimming normally, is he bloated?


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

They were in separate tanks and had their own cups. He doesn't look bloated at all. Other than the odd movement this morning and skittishness I don't really see symptoms. But I got him and Brahms from the same store on the same day so I'm fearful that there was something going around at the store that's starting to catch up with Mozart now.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't know what it is. But if he started to show the same symptoms as your other fish i would really treat it with aquarium salt before it too late. Not sure how long it took Brahms to die, but sometimes it really fast.

I spoke to someone on the forum Sena and she wrote one time that she had fish and no one could figure out what wrong … She took quick action and decided to use aq salt and it helped. It will support his immune system.

Do you know instructions on that?


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I have aquarium salt and I know how to use it. Though I tend to use a pretty conservative amount. I'll start treatment with that as soon as I get home. He's due for a water change anyway. I'm thinking of picking up something for parasites, too. Since there aren't any external signs I'm wondering if there's a possibility of internal parasites.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Usually with internal parasites they will be bloated and fish would be in very bad condition. A lot of time fish would have white, clear stringy, wormy like poop.

Also with internal parasites it will really take tame for fish to die. Yes symptoms can take long time onset though...

I really don't think he has internal parasites. You don't want to treat him with wrong medications for the wrong reason and still have problem. You can buy it if it make you feel better that you has it in case you need it. Just make sure you can return it.

I think Tetra Parasite Clear, i read jungle brand also is good. Just make sure it for internal parasites.

Also I would recommend 2 tsp/gall of aq pre mix before you are using it.


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Okay. I'll stick with the salt and I'll add that to his tank when I get home. I hope it helps him. Is there anything I should have on hand for him in case the salt doesn't work?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Are you going to treat him in his tank?
It will be difficult for you to do daily 100% water changes. You might need to put him in the smaller container or just lower the water in the tank.
When did you do last water change?
I would change his water completely with pre mixed aq salt. But make sure the temp approx +-2* the same and really TAKE TIME to acclimate him.


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I just did a complete water change. He's currently acclimating to his new tank water, which has been treated with 2tsp aquarium salt per gallon. I'm going to treat him in his tank, as the three gallon tank is easy enough to carry back and forth to the sink and I don't find water changes in it too cumbersome. I do have to go and buy some silk plants for him. I had put live ones in his tank, but I'm afraid that the salt will kill the plants so I took those out and I fear he'll feel very insecure without cover from some plants.

It could be my imagination, but I think he looks better already even though he's still in a cup that's part old tank water and part new water with salt. His color seems less washed out to me. I'm hopeful that 7-10 days in aquarium salt will be quite good for him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ok i like to wait until i know for sure that something is working out, then i usually say it working!!! So i hope it will work for him. Sorry that I am so pessimistic just want it to work.

I would not recommend to put anything new in his tank until you know for sure he is fine. 

Live plants as far as i know from reading on this forum not aquarium salt tolerant.
It good idea to take them out and put in the water with NO water conditioner. That way you sort of quarantine them also. Leave them for 2-3 week in quarantine. They may die though. Some plants will die some will survive. Not sure which though.


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## Tazo (May 12, 2012)

Hm... when you say slithers, do you mean that he like... closes his fins and moves by wiggling his body? Because Indy does that sometimes, and he's super healthy. He was doing it more often when the filter was still in his tank, though, I think because of the current.
But... yeah... that's the closest to "slithering" I've seen, and he does do that sometimes... I just put it down as part of his behavior, though, since I have seen absolutely no signs of illness with him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey, not going to ask how he doing since i am superstitious. I hope he is doing good and eating. 
I was thinking not sure if it necessary though. When you do his water change i would take everything out of his tank wash it with hot hot water and put it outside to dry out for a few days in a sun. Or if you can't put outside you can do it inside . Sun will kill any bacteria on it. Then wash it again and put it back.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

I think if possible, you can post a video, because I see our Sammy do that all the time, trying to get thru his plants, to get to the top for the surface, he wiggles like a worm, but it is part of his swimming, so I never saw it as something bad, so just wondering if that would be the way he is trying to get thru something, or if there is something really wrong, u certainly don't want to use something to treat him for that he doesn't have..but in case there is..it is the best way to treat him..


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

There weren't any plants for him to weave through, though. :/ I can't get a video because lately' he's been too busy hiding behind his heater... Last night he seemed fine. He was eating and he didn't look washed out or anything. But this morning when I went to feed him he didn't seem interested in his food.

I'm a little worried because so far every betta I've seen lose interest in food has died under 24 hours later. I just changed his water and I'm keeping up with the aquarium salt treatment. He's pretty stressed, but I think most of the stress is coming from being in his cup. I'm going to try giving him either frozen bloodworms or frozen brine shrimp to see if that's more enticing than pellets. Probably brine shrimp... I only feed the blood worms as an absolute last resort to get a fish to eat because I'm a little allergic to them and if I'm not careful to scrub my hands extremely well after touching them my eyes will blow up and I'll get hives and stuff.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If he stopped eating it not good sigh. If you have him in the cup don't put him back in the tank. I would disinfect the tank and everything in the tank. Keep him in the cup and continue salt. 
Don't worry that he is stressed because he is in the cup.
I have a question to you . Did you put him in the tank where you ever had other sick fish? I know that Brahms was in the other tank, but did you have fish before them?
Also are you able to buy medications? If he getting worse and salt not helping him i would use antibacterial medications. Or if you not able to buy medications give us update may be it better to increase dosage of of the salt up to 3 tsp/gall. Stopped eating and hiding really not good...

Don't use blood worms if you have allergy. I would think if he refusing any other food he would not eat them any way. If you really want you can try cooked shrimp. All bettas love it (size of the pellet).

If you able to buy medications i would try Tetracycline API or Maracyn and Maracyn 2 combination.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am just trying to understand what wrong. I was thinking if you ever had sick fish in the same tank and didn't disinfect the tank then it can be an answer. 
And especially if you are using the same gravel or ornaments or etc..


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I have him cupped now. I can't keep an eye on him during the night and he's acting so off I was afraid something would happen and he wouldn't be able to get to the surface for air. If he's still alive tomorrow I'll be able to get to a pet store to see what medication they have.

I did have a sick fish in that tank, but after I cleaned the tank in hot water and let it sit for several days so it was completely dry before getting Mozart. And I hadn't ever had a sick fish in the same tank as Brahms, who died of some unknown cause. He just stopped eating one night and the next morning he was dead. Same with Lucius, actually, and I'd never had a sick fish in his tank, either. But Lucius had cloudy eyes in addition to not eating. Mozart's eyes aren't cloudy.

I offered him bloodworms and brine shrimp tonight. He didn't seem interested, but I'm hoping once he settles in his cup he will. He's feeling well enough to be agitated that he's in a cup, so maybe that's a good sign? I also took the heater out of Brahms' old tank and put it in Mozart's. I'm hoping with the two heaters going the temperature will raise a bit and maybe the warmer water will perk him up.

I think tomorrow if Mozart's still alive his tank is coming out of that room and Beethoven's will also. I can't think of any reason anyone might have sprayed anything in the room, but I figure I may as well entertain the idea that something in that room is contaminating the water.

I just don't understand. It's not ich, it's not columnaris, it's not velvet... He isn't bloated... He has warm, clean water that's treated with conditioner. I've been offering a variety of foods. I'm completely stumped.

If they have tetracyclin as well as marcyn and maracyn 2 combo, which should I get? Is one better than the other?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would buy the one that cost less. Both of that medications are good.
The temperature is fine. Don't make dramatic changes. I don't think it will help.
Did you ever check you water? I never do it because i never had any problem ,but i know some people go the the store and they do it for you for free. Tomorrow i hope he is alive , when you go to check medications give them to check your water.

I can't think what it can be. But i am admire you for trying so hard.

Usually to disinfect the tank you need to do more then just hot water. Just hot water not going to kill bacteria . 
How about gravel and everything in the tank did you use anything from the sick fish. Usually you need to disinfect not only tank and everything else. So if you use anything from the tank after first fish died it also can be the reason,especially gravel, ornaments etc....

Please give me update. I am really sad ....i wish he can survive. The only thing if he got worse for the past 2 days make me kind of think he might not. 
And like you wrote that he don't have all that symptoms that you described above i would think that it some kind of bacteria. Don't put him back in the tank don't use anything from the tank or other tank. Keep him cupped

Good luck, i ll wait for update.


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Well, I was pleasantly surprised to find that Mozart did, in fact, make it through the night. I was a little reluctant to look because I was almost positive he wouldn't. His colors are still dull and washed out, but he was hovering at the top of his cup instead of laying on the bottom, which was encouraging, and it looked like he may have eaten a couple bloodworms. I have an extra fish bowl lying around somewhere.

I'll go to petsmart today and see if I can get medication for him. I have an old 2.5 gallon bowl that I'll probably use to dose him with medication, since his cup is too small to dose accurately and I don't want to risk using water from his tank. I may also pick up something for parasites just to have on hand, depending on how much the antibacterial medicine costs. If it's expensive, any extra meds I want to have on hand might have to wait a couple weeks until I get paid.

I guess once I get him set up with his medication I'll also disinfect my tanks. I'm a little nervous about using bleach. Is there something else I can use?

I've gotten my water tested before at Petco. They told me that they couldn't see anything wrong with my water that would cause fish to die. Then an irritating employee carried on about how it was because the water conditioner and aq salt were just too many chemicals and the fish couldn't handle it. Oh, and I was also killing my fish by giving them a heater because they don't like warm water and I should only be using distilled water in my tanks. -.- But, other than all that silliness, they didn't see anything in my water that would cause fish to die.

But, I'm really glad he survived the night so I can get tertracyclin and see if that helps him. It's just so discouraging. For the first two days in aq salt, he seemed to be perking up. His color was starting to really show again and he was eating. And then yesterday morning all of a sudden he just stopped eating. :/


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

is it possible he was swimming like this boy (about 30 seconds in)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC7N-oDpswY


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Kind of, but he was on the very bottom of the tank, touching the gravel. He's not doing it anymore, though. Now he's pale and not really eating. :/ It could be that the odd movement wasn't a symptom of anything wrong, but I'm kind of grasping at straws and looking for some sort of indicator as to why he would be pale and uninterested in food. :/


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i am glad he survived. 

I can't believe that Petco recommended to use distilled water. 

But i am concerned if he getting worse with aq salt. If we miss diagnosed him. If he is not worse continue aq salt though.
Why you think he has internal parasites? Did you see his poop? What color and shape it it? Is it white,clear stringy,wormy like? 

Yes don't use anything from his tank.

Let us know if there is any other symptoms.

Will wait for update. Good luck.

We post at the same time i didn't read what you wrote...


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

maybe he has an external parasite you can't see. or an internal blockage although it sounds like you've treated him for that. That movement outside of breeding, against gravel, would lead me to believe its something on his scales/skin. You can keep up the aq salt treatments for up to 10 days. With my girl Velvet, she came in super itchy and rubbed on everything, I treated her with aq salt, extra stress coat and IAL. In about a week she was all good to go. I would try a bit of extra stress coat (doseage on the back of bottle for "repairing damaged fins and skin") with the aq salt for the next 4 or 5 days (I think that should be the marking point for treating for a week, can't quite remember when you said you started treatments) If there is no improvement after a week then thats not your problem. If he gets bloated in any way shape or form try daphnia or epsom salt. Don't do the cooked pea method. Is he still just hiding?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If it external parasites aquarium salt will help. Just don’t understand why he is getting worse though. I am at work I couldn’t see the video. But if he was trying to rub his body then it can be external parasites. But a lot of the time it would be symptoms on his skin. Well may be not all the time since he already treated with aq salt.

I am agree with extra stress coat since I read that with extra stress coat they would have extra slime coat which will help to parasite to fall. But be careful don’t overdose.

Now if it external parasite the warmer the temperature the better it is. Usually recommended temperature is up to 85-86*. Temp over 86* and the parasites will stop reproducing and some even say it will kill them.

I though you was thinking that he has internal parasites which would give him bloating and white,clear, wormy poop. With internal parasites it difficult to get rid of them especially if you don’t treat on time, so I hope it not it.

Also I want to write something else if you can stay on line longer…??? I am at work..


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

the video was just for comparison purposes, it was of two bettas breeding and the male doing the wiggle dance. It wasn't one AngesRadieux took.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So i was thinking if it indeed external parasites then i would disinfect 3 gall and put heater there so you can heat it up .

If it indeed external parasites it will die without host. So you can just really use 50% vinegar with water, wash it hot warm,cold water let it stay in the sun for 24 hrs and parasites will die. If you can do it today , you can use the tank tomorrow. 

Keep him in aq salt for now and buy medication for external parasites in case you need to use them. I heard api and jungle medications are good. You always can return medications if you didn't open them.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry that i am writing like that i just write when i have a chance since i am at work..I understood that it not one of the AngesRadieux video but i though there is betta who behave the same way that Anges's fish did. I thought fish was trying to rub the body against the objects...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Since we are not sure if it external parasites or just bacterial infection aquarium salt still help for both...
Just don't use anything from his tank unless you disinfect it.
But not sure what medication you need to use though.
You always can return them if you didn't open it.
Also not sure if you are using the same net for him that you was using for other fish. You can disinfect the net the same way that as the tank …


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I bought the API tetracyclin... Now his fins have red tips. His dorsal has little red tips on the rays and the edges of his tail are rust colored. How should I dose the tetracyclin? The packets I got are for a 10 gallon aquarium and I don't have a spare 10 gallon container. I ended up not getting the stuff for parasites. There were too many brands and I had no clue which ones were actually effective.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ok we can do it for a cup size or for 1 gall size.
I was thinking you can do it in one gall jug. You can pre mix it and use it a few times. Do you have one gall jug?


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I was planning on premixing it in a 2.5 gallon fish bowl. I have the bowl filled with dechlorinated water, I'm just not sure how to go about measuring the proper dosage. Do you think I should keep Mozart cupped or let him in the 2.5 gallon bowl?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

did you have sick fish in it before? Did you disinfect that tank?
If yes you can do it in there. 
Now if he has problem to swim you need to lower the water, which you can do after you add medications. And don’t add medication directly in the tank , pre mix it in the cup.

What you can do - take dry plate and have one packed on that plate. Then split it in a half (which will be 5 gall each); then split one of that part on a half and it will be for 2.5 all and so on...


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Nope, I haven't had sick fish in the bowl. I just keep it around because it makes water changes in my 10 gallon tank easy. I'll dose the bowl. The only thing is I'm concerned about heating it... I have the heaters from Mozart's and Brahms' tank, but both were in the tank while the fish were sick so I don't know if I want to risk putting either of them in the bowl.


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Right now he's cupped in treated water. If the medicine seems to be working and he perks up in the cup I'll move him into the bowl. But I think I'll keep him in the cup until I see a bit of improvement. He doesn't appear to be having trouble getting to the surface, but I don't want to take chances.

He seems to be doing even worse. He's lying on his side on the bottom of the cup. I'm going to lower the water level in the cup for him.  I don't know what to do. His color's starting to come back, but he's just laying on his side...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Wash it in the hot water 50% vinegar put salt wash it very well. When you wash it submerge it in the water completely make sure no disinfection solution left in there. My heaters have wire go out of a hole so if yours the same, put it upside down make sure all disinfection solution leaks out. Let it dry out for 24 hrs . I think it enough. Also if you put it and submerge in the clean container and plug it on make sure it working I think since it very hot it will kill any bacteria. I can’t think about anything else.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry we posted at the same time i didn't see what you wrote. So sorry it ok to have him in the cup. 
Is there any visual symptoms on his body?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Please be ready for worse so sorry....keep us update and be strong you doing good job


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

I can't even tell if his gills are moving anymore... It's really not looking good. I have to go now, but I guess I'll see if he's still alive when I get home later.


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## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

The stupid fish didn't make it... Maybe I should just stop trying to keep fish.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

AngesRadieux said:


> The stupid fish didn't make it... Maybe I should just stop trying to keep fish.


this is quite offensive, its not the fishes fault. Now I feel bad for trying to help you when you didn't even value the fish. I would tell you to not give up but if you view is "stupid fish" then maybe you should.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

AngesRadieux said:


> The stupid fish didn't make it... Maybe I should just stop trying to keep fish.


I don't feel bad for trying to help you and i understand your frustration ..And the reason i am writing that because you was trying to do everything possible for him. It not your fault and it not his fault.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

May be it not time to say it but i want to give one example .

You ask if you should give up i would say no because i wish you can safe one more betta from the store and hopefully give it a live. And i believe that you really care because i read every post you put, medications bought, water changes, your updates etc...i believe that you really care and should try again and we can figure out or try to figure out what was wrong. All disinfection's, environmental issues so on we can try to figure out....and i think give it another chance.

I don't know but i really want to write something that really bothers me, may be you feel better ...that you did everything you could

I have a coworker that came to me today. She is a lot of older than me. I have 2 betta on my work table. She came to me and told me that her son in low bought a bettea. Now it dying. It don't eat and just hanging on the top for a week already. When i asked her to bring me a betta to see what wrong and treat him she say:''no no it just a fish i don't know why they bought it, they have more stuff to take care of . They have child''. That exactly what she said . Then she added :'' it i hope will die soon''. And fish still alive. So that is example people don't care .....i hate people sometimes. That person don't understand when i say that i feel bad for dog or fish or....Those people should never have any kind of animals.


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