# I think my very first Betta fish has fin rot :( help



## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

my first Betta fish, Sully, has little rips or holes in his back fin. ive been giving him the medication the lady at the local pet shop said to but he doesnt seem to be responding to it much. ive also been doing partial water changes every 3 days (25% the first 3 days, 50% the next 3 days, then 75% and a full change). i dont have a PH tester or aquarium salt like everyone says you have to use because i could barely afford the water conditoner and medication. im really worried about him. can anyone help me?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

How big is his tank? and what is the medication? 
Is he active?

I would stop the medication if its not helping. Some meds that are sold for bettas, like bettafix actually do more harm them good and just keep the water nice and clean. 

Little rips and holes- Does it look like his tail is shredded? Is there black around the ripped area? It sounds like either fin rot OR tail bitting. Aq salt would help but if you can't afford it, that's OK. Just keep his water clean. If there is black around the affected area, its probably fin rot. If he is a long finned fish, he may be tail bitting which can be caused by stress, boredom or anger. 

AS long as he is active and eating, I wouldn't worry too much... I don't think fin rot is fatal, unless it touches the body and tail bitting is just annoying. However, tail bitters can end up with fin rot if water quality is bad.

This is tail bitting:









ETA: I think you should be doing more water changes, but i'm not sure how much more. Generally its one 100% change and one 50% a week for non filtered tanks. But to clear up fin rot, it might be a 100% daily.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

well his tank is actually just a really big candle holder. (holds bout 1 1/2 L) with small amythests at the bottom and a fake plant. thing is the plant has little pointy bits on the ends of each frond(is that the word?? ). and my mum is a bit iffy on everything. she wouldnt even buy me a small heater rod cause she doesnt think he needs it even though his water feels cold to me.
the bottle says is: Science products Fungus and Fin Rot Medication. contains 2,0mg/ml ACRIFLAVINE and 0.4mg/ml MALACHITE GREEN.
and it says on the back: All fish benifit from a 25% water change before commencing treatment and thereafter every 3 days before retreatment until cure is effected.
and he sorta plays with his food. like hell put half of it in his mouth, sit there for a few seconds and let go of it again. though somethime he has a little bit of trouble getting the little balls into his mouth. and his fins arent that long. i dont even think he CAN reach them. oh and i cant really see his little holes/rot cause he almost never flares out his tail. he's a wierd little thing. which is why i named him from the big blue monter from Monters INC. oh and the holes are at about the middle of his back fin. i really worry about him. 
my brother also has 3 bettas (he had 4 but one died) and one of them has fin rot too. the medication seems to be working for his.


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## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

Please do some research and get your betta the proper size tank and other things it needs to be healthy. These things are affordable and your betta will be with you much longer. Your brother should do the same thing if he hasn't already.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Malachite green is used as a dye as well as a medication for fish. I have a quick cure which has malachite green as the main ingredient but its to treat parasites and Ich. 

How long have you had him? I think fin rot is usually around the end of the fins, not in the middle. Ammonia can burn away their fins. I'm wondering if maybe the holes are caused by ammonia and not rot which is why the medication isnt working. 

I'm hoping someone else pops in here to offer better advice, but I think you should stop the medication since its not working and do a 100% water change. Weather its fin rot or ammonia burns, clean water will do a world of good. 

From what I have heard, eating the food and spitting it back out is kinda normal. I wouldnt worry about that unless he is not eating at all.

A heater would be good too since they are tropical fish. Also 1.5 liters seems kinda small. Do you have anything bigger to put him in. Sometimes I use storage containers till I can afford something better. Candle holders are tall and narrow, something longer and shorter would be much better. Just be sure to cover it with something so he cant jump out.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

ProudMotherOfABetta12 said:


> my first Betta fish, Sully, has little rips or holes in his back fin. ive been giving him the medication the lady at the local pet shop said to but he doesnt seem to be responding to it much. ive also been doing partial water changes every 3 days (25% the first 3 days, 50% the next 3 days, then 75% and a full change). i dont have a PH tester or aquarium salt like everyone says you have to use because i could barely afford the water conditoner and medication. im really worried about him. can anyone help me?





ProudMotherOfABetta12 said:


> well his tank is actually just a really big candle holder. (holds bout 1 1/2 L) with small amythests at the bottom and a fake plant. thing is the plant has little pointy bits on the ends of each frond(is that the word?? ). and my mum is a bit iffy on everything. she wouldnt even buy me a small heater rod cause she doesnt think he needs it even though his water feels cold to me.
> the bottle says is: Science products Fungus and Fin Rot Medication. contains 2,0mg/ml ACRIFLAVINE and 0.4mg/ml MALACHITE GREEN.
> and it says on the back: All fish benifit from a 25% water change before commencing treatment and thereafter every 3 days before retreatment until cure is effected.
> and he sorta plays with his food. like hell put half of it in his mouth, sit there for a few seconds and let go of it again. though somethime he has a little bit of trouble getting the little balls into his mouth. and his fins arent that long. i dont even think he CAN reach them. oh and i cant really see his little holes/rot cause he almost never flares out his tail. he's a wierd little thing. which is why i named him from the big blue monter from Monters INC. oh and the holes are at about the middle of his back fin. i really worry about him.
> my brother also has 3 bettas (he had 4 but one died) and one of them has fin rot too. the medication seems to be working for his.



Sorry about your little guy..

1.5L is .3 US/EU gallons.. I usually don't harp on people's tanks, but that is very very very small. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do in that cup of water. 

If you say the plant has points, that is most likely what is causing the holes in his fins, and why the meds aren't working.. take it out. They love love medium to heavily planted tanks and a cave.. but you have no room for anything whatsoever if he is to be able to turn comfortably. 

If it is fin rot, the edges will be crusty, flaking and black for the most part. But just small holes in the fins doesn't mean that.. it's usually a sign of decorations gone wrong, or high ammonia.

You wouldn't want to heat that with a heater rod as it will burn your little guy and heat the water way too hot.. you want at least 3.7L (1gal) at the minimal to heat, and even then it can get tricky. You should be doing daily 100% water changes for him.

As for food.. it sounds as if the pellets are too big for him. Either presoak them to get them softer, or cut them in half to make it easier for him. I have a girl who isn't all that small, but she just can't eat the common size pellets and I have to go through and pick out the tiniest of ones for her to eat. 

If you do feel you must do the medication (even though I highly recommend not using it, since it looks as if it will do more harm then good because you can't say for sure it is rot) and since you can't get the salt, you will have to use the medication and follow directions exactly. You are doing the % of water changes it says, but it's not telling you that it is meaning for larger tanks.. since .3 gal candle holder is not a tank and the manufacturers wouldn't of even considered the size you are using. So have to ask, are you using a gallon jug or something to premix the meds in before giving it to your fish? Have to make sure it's the right dose for the size you are using.

I say save up and get him a larger home and heater.. you really should be prepared and able to support having a pet.. it's not wise to just buy one and not be able to provide even half of what it needs to live. Kinda like buying a puppy, keeping it in a shoe box and tossing in a treat once in a while. Sure, it will live for a while in there.. but is it actually happy, healthy and living a good life?


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## tf1265 (Jul 26, 2011)

I concur with Myates 100%. It's probably not fin rot, he's probably stressed out because he has no room to move and ammonia is building in his "tank." Why do a 25% water change in a cup that size? Your bottle of medicaiton probably assumes you have him at least in a 1 gallon bowl - and if it's not specific to bettas, it probably assumes you have at least a 5 gallon tank, as those are usually the absolute minimum sizes for any healthy fish. 

You can probably find something larger around your house to put him in, and I recommend that you do as soon as possible. You need to be changing 100% of the water daily until you can get him into a larger tank. Like Myates I try not to give people a hard time about small tanks ( I have 1 betta in his own 2 gallon, 1 female betta in a 10 gallon community, and 2 females in a divided 5 gallon) because there are a lot of different opinions and many people would tell me that my 2 gallon and 2.5 gallons are too small to be ideal, but .3 gallons is just cruel. Please find something larger for him, even if it doesn't look as nice.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

A 1 gal is suitable and if able to heat properly with the correct water changes, it can be a good home. I use kritter keepers of 2-3 gals, which are perfect for a single betta. What's sad is a lot of those decorative "tanks" they have for bettas are more expensive then buying a 2-3 gal tank/keeper. Why it's best to do homework before making choices lol.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

the candle holder is actually quite big and i have a netting cover i made cause he jumped out of his first bowl. :-( am i a bad owner?
my mum doesnt think he needs heating and that his bowl is big enough. i want to put him in my brothers extra tank. its got a filter thingy and a light and a proper cover. but my mum doesnt want to use more power. i really do love him.
so when should i do water changes? im getting mixed responses.
blurry photo. sorry. my camera is really bad.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

That size I would do 2 50% and 1 100% per week with like-temp water, dosing the conditioner for a 1 gal/3L tank each time. The netting is a good idea, you could even raise the water level a bit more since you have the netting. 

Your mom may not like or understand.. but what if you were able to collect the money on your own? As in doing extra chores for her or family, and spending your collected money on something a bit larger? Start with the tank first, then can work on a heater - there are different options to heating tanks, just the small ones such as that is harder. And bettas don't need filters, so you wouldn't have to worry about that at all either.

It looks bigger then I imagined, but still sorta small. But as long as you do the proper water changes, he should be healthy in there. 

You're not a bad owner, just one who has heard and believed all those myths out there about what is okay for bettas. You're learning and understanding, and that counts.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i only get 3$ a week and i cant really handle a job at the moment cause im just starting year 12 in school and i do have some mental issues. not like schizophrenia or anything. just anxiety and depression. the people in my house are the only family i have in this town and there are no jobs to do here.
when do you recommend doing the water changes? every 3 days like ive been doing?


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Good luck with year 12!

If that's your budget, then I would do this - save up $6 and buy a storage container from a dollar shop. I got a nice 20 litre (5 gallon) container from my local shop for not very much at all, and if it wasn't currently full of rat food it would make a perfect temporary home for a betta. Sure, it wouldn't be stunningly attractive, but with pets we always have to put their needs before our asthetic choices, and like I said, it would only be temporary until you could afford a larger one. So, by the end of two weeks you should easily be able to afford this. Alternatively, I picked up a ten litre bucket from the hardware shop for $4, and it would also work well. 
Wrap it in a towel and keep it in the warmest possible part of the house, so that the temperature stays as high as possible. Most importantly, try not to let it fluctuate (so don't keep it in the sun, because that will cause changes). 

The weeks after that, save for a decent heater. It might take you 5 weeks, but when winter sets in it really is something you will need. You should be able to get a 10-25 watt heater for no more than $15 - that's what I paid for my heater and I live in the capital of expensive. 

Every three days is good for your water changes. Say, a 50% change on Monday and Wednesday, and 100% on Friday. 

If it helps, you can tell your mother that a heater will use up zilch power, pretty much. I run two tanks - one uses a heater, filter and lights, and the other uses a bigger heater, two filters and a big light, and the difference to the power bill really is negligible.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

thanks Bombalurina. i think ill do the water changes thing. though theres a window behind him. do you think if i leave the curtain open of a day that his water will warm up even for a little while? though that would cause temp fluctuations?? i dont know,
and ive been told that a heater rod would overheat the water so im thinking about getting a heating mat but i cant find one on ebay.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I wouldn't risk putting in a heater until you can get him a larger home, like a plastic container. There's just not enough stability in a tank that small to risk it. Normally I'm all "Get a heater now!" but I think in this situation, you should work on getting him a larger container (however temporary it is) first, then the heater. The heater can always be transferred with him to a more permanent home later. 
I would go for a proper submersible heater rather than a mat. I don't know a lot about mats but heaters can generally be adjusted and that's a good thing.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

my brother has a spare tank with a air filter thingy and a light. would it be big enough? i dont know how much it holds but heres some pics


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

That would be perfect. Just clean it out with super hot water before using it. If your mom doesn't want you to use more plugs/electricity, just keep in mind you don't need a filter or air circulation in the tank, as bettas prefer low to no current. 

If you keep the filter in, I'd suggest doing 1 30-50% water change per week, dosing the tank for the full amount of water conditioner, regardless how much you take out. With once to twice a month siphoning the gravel, or stirring up the gravel and using a cup to dip it out.

If you take out the filter, you would want to do 1 50% and 1 100% water change per week.

But he will be much happier in that size tank, and you can save up for a proper heater and decorations =)


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## Behati (Sep 4, 2011)

To be completely honest, I have kept a betta in about that much water and he went on to be the longest living betta I've owned to date. No heater, no special water conditioners (lol I didn't use water conditioner at all!). He went on to live for 3 years since I got him when he was already much older. I was like 10 so I didn't know much better either.

If you intend on using the candle holder be careful about spilling it, and you should probably take out that plant to give him more swim room.

If you use your brother's tank and the filter isn't too strong (and you are using the filter media as well) then you can get away with 30-50% water changes every week or so then do a full change every long weekend (month or so?). If you don't use the filter media I wouldn't fill the tank to the brim, maybe half way to 3/4ths way doing 50% changes and 100% changes alternating every week. Just don't let the water get too cloudy or dirty. If he looks/acts a bit funky and you haven't done a water change, you should change his water.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i put a compact mirror beside sullys bowl and he flared up at himself. i noticed his back fin is ragged on the end. 
i have to ask my brother if i can use the small tank. i havent seen him at all today


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

Behati said:


> To be completely honest, I have kept a betta in about that much water and he went on to be the longest living betta I've owned to date. No heater, no special water conditioners (lol I didn't use water conditioner at all!). He went on to live for 3 years since I got him when he was already much older. I was like 10 so I didn't know much better either.


i read that they only need heating in colder climates. does this mean i dont actually need one? its pretty hot here


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

The water temp should be between 76-80 degrees ideally. They can survive in colder water, but it's not good for them.

So you'd need to be able to fit a heater and a thermometer in that candle holder you're using (And finding a heater that small is horridly difficult), so if you can use the tank, that's best.

Some places can get away with no heaters if they stay warm all year, but if the weather gets colder and your house does as well, it's best to have a heater for stable temperatures.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

is there such a thing is a heater AND thermometer in one?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I have never seen one.



> i read that they only need heating in colder climates. does this mean i dont actually need one? its pretty hot here


I would imagine if you lived in someplace like the Middle East or someplace that is tropical, you don't need a heater. They can survive with lower temps ( i have seen my tank dip to 68 with a heater in winter) but it's really not good for them. They can get lethargic and loose color.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

No such thing of a heater and a thermometer--but there are heaters with thermostats. You set the temp to what you want--but it doesn't guarantee it's right. When it's cold, the thermometer could be set to 84, but my tank is still 76!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Behati said:


> To be completely honest, I have kept a betta in about that much water and he went on to be the longest living betta I've owned to date. No heater, no special water conditioners (lol I didn't use water conditioner at all!). He went on to live for 3 years since I got him when he was already much older. I was like 10 so I didn't know much better either.
> 
> Most bettas you buy in the store are only a few months old.. and 3 years is kinda on the short end of their life span. To me it just kind of proves why one should properly care for their fish so they could live out their full life.
> 
> ...


Everyone already answered about the temp/thermometer.. wish you luck on the tank and your little guy.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Just to add to why a heater really is important: remember that water temperature is usually a good 2 degrees F below room temperature, so unless you are keeping your house at a constant 78 or above, the water simply won't be warm enough. And 76 is really the minimum. 78-82 is the ideal range.  Unfortunately, that means a house at a constant 80-84, and I know I hate having to live in those temperatures.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

yea im going to save up for a new tank(if i cant get my brother to let me use his), a heater and thermomter. im considering getting a job soon too. maybe at a pet shop, vet or a small hairdressers.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

My only advice for a job is to apply everywhere. No one is really interested in hiring because they can get someone with more education and experience for the same price as they can get someone without any experience. the choice they'll logically go with is the experience, which might leave you high and dry.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

there isnt really ANY jobs being advertised around at the moment. and if there were then theyed be in lismore (im in kyogle) and i havent got my license or any way to get over there. which is a problem. i really want to work at the new pet shop that just opened up in my town but i need to do a resume first.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I have a friend who studied in Lismore. Beautiful place. 

When doing your resumé, just include everything: school, volunteer jobs (if you can do Duke of Ed, that looks great on a resumé, even if you just do Gold), anything you are involved in outside of school. Look for experiences in your life that highlight:
- responsibility (even if it is just babysitting siblings)
- willingness to work
- commitment (for instance, what are you studying for your HSC? Two years of focus on a subject shows commitment)
- a love of learning new skills
I got my first job in year 12 working 3 hours two nights a week at $10 an hour in a horrible kids' club. The pay sucked and the work was boring and stressful, but it paid off. Nearly four years later I'm the supervisor or 2IC, my wage has massively increased as my skill set has grown and I get to do better jobs, and my boss trusts me. It is worth starting in a cruddy job if you can't get anything else, because at the very least, you get experience. If you can put up with 6 months in MacDonalds or Dominoes or some other starting job, other places will be that much more willing to hire you. 
Even if you don't think you have a chance somewhere locally at the moment, put your resumé in now and ask them to keep you in mind for when you are next hiring. It's coming up to Christmas, after all, and a Christmas casual is a good place to start. 

Good luck!


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

the only job i could find on seek.com.au was at Aldi  working 6 hour shifts. not happening. and i cant even get over to casino.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

im going to try for a small part time job at the pet shop in town. wish me luck!


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Good luck!


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

well that was a bust. they only just started up so they werent ready to hire more people.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

finally caught up with my brother. HE'S LET ME USE HIS SPARE TANK :-D Im pretty sure sully likes it. maybe not the light so much :3 its cute


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i think sully just vomited =/ he ate his little ball thing alright, but after this off-white flake came out. normal or no?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Why is his water green? It was recommended earlier not to continue medication as it really didn't seem to be fin rot, but instead was from the decoration you had.. if that is why the water is still green. 

Sometimes they spit up a little.. just keep an eye on it to see if it continues with each feeding.

He will be much happier there =)


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

his fins have gotten worse but theyre sort of going black and falling off little bits at a time. ive fixed the plant so it doesnt hve spikey bits on the ends anymore, and he hasnt eaten what i gave him this morning. ill have to check when i get home cause i had to go to school. and he's sort of got this off-white-ish bump growing just back from his head. normal? 
oh and he was bumping at the walls and hovering at the edge of the tank.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Can you get a clear picture when you get home? Also, change 100% of his water, cup him for a few minutes, and thoroughly rinse the tank and all decorations in hot water. It might have been something that was in the tank causing him to bump into things.

If, in the clean (And clear water, no medications) his eyes look cloudy white, then you'll know you have a water quality issue.

Instead of using a medication to treat him, use 1 tsp (teaspoon)/gal premixed aquarium salt. That means you'll want to take some tank water without medications, measure out the aquarium salt, and swish/stir it until there are no salt crystals left. Add the aquarium salt mixture to the tank BEFORE your betta (Acclimate him to the salt and temperature by adding a small amount of tank water to his cup every 15 minutes while you float him in the tank, but be sure not to get any cup water in the tank).

If he does have cloudy eyes after the water change as well, the aquarium salt will help heal that as well.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear he is getting worse.. 
As been recommended a few times already.. you should re-evaluate continuing that medication. Especially since it's not helping. It wasn't black and rotting prior when you started it. I would highly recommend doing what was mentioned, the salt treatment:

Tail rot or fin rot
•Symptoms: Betta’s fins and/or tail seem to be getting shorter and shorter or they seem to be falling apart and dissolving, Black or red along the edge of the betta’s fins/tail, Bloody tips, Behavior may not change
Treatment: Conservative: Treat with Aq.Salt at 1 tsp/gal. Increase water changes to 100% daily. Replace accurate amount of salt following water changes. Add Stress Coat to help repair tissue. If there is little to no improvement within the first 5 days, you can increase the salt dosage gradually to 2tsp/gal but do not continue any salt treatments past 10 days. Medication: If Conservative treatment is ineffective use API Tetracycline, API Fungus Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR API Erythromycin. Also add Stress Coat to help regrowth. Continue until fins/tail stop receding and start showing some new growth. 

At this point, I think he would benefit more with clean water and the salt treatment as it is less harsh.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

where am i supposed to get aquarium salt? i dont even have money. is it possible just to use normal salt?


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## tf1265 (Jul 26, 2011)

It sounds like your Mom would be a bad betta owner. But you are trying. Bettas can survive a long time in sub-par conditions, they would just survive longer and be happier in better conditions. 

Putting him in something bigger is definitely better, even if you can't heat it properly. It at least solves 1 problem. He won't need the filter, and while the light would be good if your Mom won't let you use the electricty it's not necessary as long as his tank gets regular daylight (meaning it's not in a closet or under the bed or something). Then he will have more space to swim around. Just give him some coverage in a larger tank to make him comfortable - the plant you have in the candle holder is a good start. See if you can find something to add that will function as a cave - an old coffee mug is a great option, if your Mom can sacrifice one of those. Otherwise, anything you can find that he could swim into and hide in.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

o____o; Seriously, why is the tank green? 
I say do as everyone else suggested- 100% water change with the conditioner ONLY. Stop putting in that phony medication. Is that what's making the water all nasty? 

As for income... you really should try to find a part-time job, anywhere. Heck, I worked at Subway for a year and hated it. But I kept up with it so I could have gas money and shopping money. 

Regular KOSHER table salt will work just fine. 1tsp. per gallon with 100% DAILY water changes for up to 10 days. 
I'm sorry he's getting worse. :< I really do suspect it's the medication.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

how much is a gallon in litres? can any table salt be used?
and i have been trying for a job but the only place that considered hireing me was the pet shop in town and i would have a job if they werent new to the scene and were tight on money.
ill do the water change when i get home from school. its going to be a long and worry-ing day.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Roughly 3.8 liters is 1 gallon.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

thats perfect for my brothers spare tank. it holds 4L.
but still...can ANY type/brand of table salt be used? im pretty sure my mum just gets Home Brand


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

It has to be Kosher table salt if you're going to use table salt at all. There can't be any caking agents in it because those are harmful.

If you can't get a hold of aquarium salt (You should be able to find it at a Walmart if they have a pet section or any pet store that sells fish since some fish require the salt to be healthy) or any Kosher salt, then just do 100% daily water changes with water conditioner. The cleaner water might be just enough to let him get on top of the infection and start to fight back.

As for jobs, once again, just apply everywhere. You might not like the job you get, but at least it's something that pays, and when you're done with it, you can put it on your resume and it'll look good if you stayed there for a bit. I work at McDonald's as a crew member, and I don't really like it, but with a $600 a month that I wouldn't otherwise be getting, I can't complain.

Here's info on the salt differences:

*Kosher salt*, as opposed to table salt, has no additives. 
*Table salt*, or iodized salt, often contains additives. Some common additives in common table salt include potassium iodide, sodium iodide and sodium iodate. Also, sodium silicoaluminate or sodium ferrocyanide is commonly added to table salt as an anti-caking agent and occasionally added to kosher salt.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

ill ask at the pet shop in town on my way home. though i doubt mum will let me get it


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

ill also look for Kosher table salt a the IGA here (we dont have a walmart. Pity)
maybe if im really lucky the guy at the pet shop might gove me a small container of aquarium salt? :3 he might feel bad for me. when i asked for a job the other day i kinda rambled on about how my recently bought betta was sick and how i needed money for a heater and bigger tank and thermometer and other important things. ^_^


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

If you can't get proper salt, don't stress too much. When my rescue boy Apollo had advanced fin rot (by which I mean it was so bad it was millimetres from attacking his body as well as his tail), I couldn't use salt because of the shrimp in my tank. I just raised the temperature to 82F (warm water really is vital, so focus on getting a heater before the salt, IMHO) and did daily 25% water changes. Mind you, this was in a 5 gallon/20 litre tank. In a 1 gallon/4 litre tank I'd do daily 25% with a 50% change and a 100% change once a week.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

but even if i do get the money for a heater it'd have to be a reptile heating mat cause a rod would cook him.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

In a 1 gallon, you might be able to get a smaller heater, but you'd need a thermometer too to make sure you're not overheating your tank. Honestly, you'd want to get an adjustable heater if you're going to get a heater. At least then you'd be able to manage the temperature a little more just incase setting it at 80 turns out to heat to 90 instead.

Maybe ask your mother if there is anything that you can do to earn a little extra money?


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

my boyfriend has a bunch of goldfish, catfish an guppies. he's going to see if i can use his old heating rod (if it wont cook sully  ) he's coming over to my house this afternoon too so everything should be fine


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

ive just done a bit of research on aquarium salt and its saying you put in tablesoons (someone said teaspoons before) so i dont know how much to put in if i end up getting it


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

On the box it says 1 rounded tablespoon for a 5 gallon tank, but you'll want to use 1 teaspoon per gallon for a betta.

Different species of fish have different tolerabilities for salt. Bettas can be on aquarium salt for 10 days max before suffering adverse side effects in the long term. You can use it for 10 days, give them a few days to a week of detox from it, and then use it for a few more days, but 10 days at once is the max for them. 3 tsp/gal is the max dose for bettas too.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

ill look in the pet shop for it (and IGA for Kosher salt) but either way ill do a full water change without the medication and ill take out his castle and move the plant a little.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

he's got dropsy now. ive got pictures (though theyre bad and this site is being silly and wont let me put them up) of his fins and of him swimming on his side. he never ate what i gave him this morning.
i found lake salt at IGA, no addatives. hopefully he'll get better


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

So his scales are now pine coned (sticking out or straight up)? If so, you'll want to slowly bring him up to 3 tsp/gal Epsom salt instead of any other salt.

you might have some Epsom salt at home, and if not it should be relatively cheap at any drug store or grocery store that sells general medications as well.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

his scales arent doing anything. he's got a bulge just below his head, he's not eating, running into walls, swuimming on his side, laying on his side etc.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

that sounds like swim bladder disorder not dropsy. In that case, fast him (Don't feed him) for 2 days and lower the water level to half of the tank level. This might have been froma sudden change in temperature. did you acclimate him to the tank before adding him?

Dropsy is a symptom of a serious bacterial infection of the internal organs or of organ failure. It will usually include pine coned scales, cloudy eyes, bulging eyes, swelling of the face and body, gray stomach, bloated stomach, lethargy, loss of appetite, and dull color.

This is what dropsy looks like in a mild case.








If he's not recovering from his swim bladder issue within a few days to a week, then start him on 1 tsp/gal epsom salt. Acclimate him to the temperature of the tank every time you do a water change. That means floating him in a cup or fish safe bag in the tank to let the temperature reach similarity before adding a small amount of tank water to his container every 15 minutes.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i did acclimate him but my one of my brothers betta have it to. do you think it might have been from the dodgy medication?


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

What have you been feeding or offering and were they both on the same medication for similar time periods?

You're using water conditioner too, right?


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

yea. we feed them different things cause his are older but we ise the same conditioner and medication.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

What kinds of food? If it is flakes, that may be another cause.

Fast all of your fish that are having swimming issues for 2 days to see if they improve any. Stop all medications and use only clean water and water conditioner.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

what about the salt i got today? ive already changed his water this afternoon and i put in a teaspoon  will he be ok with it in there?


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

im not even sure he's still alive  he's just laying at the bottom of the tank. im worried.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Salt other then Epsom can make bloating/SBD worse.. why Pala said to switch to Epsom and not use the other salt.

It's not just the temp you are having to acclimate him to- especially since he was in medication for a while prior- always acclimate to chemistry as well as temp. When floating the cup in the water to get the temps even, always take out a bit of the water from the cup and replace it with water from the tank every 5-10 mins. That way he adjusts to the change in chemistry and it won't put him in shock, which is what this sounds like. 
Change out his water completely, acclimate him to both temp and chemistry to the new water, keep his water level down to 3-4 inches so he can swim to the top for air.

I think just clean water is best for him right now- it sounds as if he went into osm shock due to the change of his water (going from medication to salted water) and wasn't acclimated properly. It does sound severe, so definitely change out his water, keep him warm, lower the water level and hope he pulls through. At this point there may not be a whole lot you can do... I'm sorry.

Owning an animal, especially for the first time, is always a learning experience. No matter how old you are, how long you've had animals, you will always be learning something about them and their care. You are trying your best to give him the best, and that is what counts and you are learning in the process so any future fish you care for, you will know how to care for them properly and hopefully won't have as many unfortunate problems.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

RIP Sully
and my brothers fish (the one who had fin rot as well and was on the same medication as Sully. died of the same thing im pretty sure)


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm sorry for your losses.. It's never easy when one goes =(
Fin rot takes a lot, and a long time to kill a fish.. the rot will work it's way up all the fins and onto the body. Your guy didn't look as if he had rot, so sadly, I don't think that was it that got him. =(


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

he did have fin rot. it was extremely bad when he died (but i couldnt get any good pictures and the site wouldnt let me upload them) and i think he died of dropsy or a sim bladder infection


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Dropsy would be what that picture above is. 
I'm thinking that they either have an SBD issue or bloating- which is what the Epsom salt is for.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

well he's dead now so the epsom salt is kinda pointless at the moment


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

ProudMotherOfABetta12 said:


> well he's dead now so the epsom salt is kinda pointless at the moment


Yes, I realize that. What I'm getting at is that is wasn't dropsy. To clarify, you said the bulge was under his head- this leads me to assume it was his stomach, not his swim bladder- which is located down the center of the fish towards the tail.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

You would know if it was dropsy or sbd, and he didn't have signs of either.. being on the bottom at the end was him fighting for his life, and not sbd.. The picture you did show would have showed the extreme case of rot that it takes to kill a fish, as your still pretty much had most of his fins and his body wasn't ridden with it. It was most likely over use of the medication, and probably not the correct amount used in his old small home, and not the proper water changes. Medication isn't easy on fish, it's always a risk to use it, and one has to be very careful about the doses as too much can be deadly.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

then why is my brothers fish dead to?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Have you tested the water you treat with? 
What kind of conditioner are you using? 

Sometimes where you purchase them matters too. If it's from a petstore, sometimes the breeders they buy from are basically fish millers and breed and breed and breed until the have extremely unhealthy fish that don't live long.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

my brothers bought a PH tester from ebay but it hasnt come yet. we use Betta Water Ready but we got them from different places. i got sully from a pet shop in lismre but aaron got his from in town.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Did you use the salt for both the fish?

That might be what set your guy over the edge and possibly you're brother's too.

Lake Salt is not Kosher salt, aquarium salt, or epsom salt. Each has a different chemical make-up.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

only i used the salt.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

He may of had something different going on with his little guy. Or he too over used/dosed the medication when it wasn't needed. We can't say for sure what was wrong with his fish, so we can't say why both of them died.. just that we're sorry they did. =(


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

You didn't use conditioner? 
PH wouldn't really affect the quality of water or tell you the ammonia/nitrate levels. You need an Ammonia test kit. 
And +1 to Pataflafla for the salt.

Yes, I am sad that they didn't make it. RIP fish. <3


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i DID use conditioner. the conditioner i use is supposed to get rid of ammonia and chlorine.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

No conditioner removes ammonia. It might neutralize it into a less harmful compound, but it doesn't just get rid of it. Conditioners do the same thing for chlorine as well.

The only ways to effectively get rid of ammonia are with water changes and live plants (you'll need a ton, which tend to take up too much space before being effective).

Water conditioners neutralize harmful chemicals into less harmful or harmless compounds, making the water safe(r) for the fish.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

but if the water has ammonia in it then how will water changes help


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

By doing water changes, you're taking out the bad ammonia/nitrates that has built up from your fishs' food/poo/whathaveyou. 
By adding clean water plus conditioner, you are replacing the toxins with less harmful forms.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

that makes sense.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

The fish creates the ammonia. It's a byproduct of them breathing. All fish do it.

Your source may have trace amounts of ammonia, but it shouldn't have enough to harm them since it has to be safe for human use.

Ammonia stays int he water however unless being used up by a plant, so changing out water takes the ammonia out of the tank to be replaced with relatively ammonia free water.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Is there anything else you're confused about?


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

just about everything


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Aww, well if you have any specific questions we are here to help.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

should i get a black moore? theyre 4$ and dont need heating


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

The goldfish? Those need temps. of 60-70 with 20 gallons per fish, and huge filtration.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

the lady at the pet shop said they dont need it.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Ah, but they do. Black Moores get to be roughly 6"-8" long. 
And petstore employees are usually mis-informed, unfortunately.  They only see the pets as money and don't bother on actually learning/giving out the correct information. 
I owned a black moore, two fan tails, and a comet goldfish, until they all came down with some kind of fungus that I couldn't cure  . 
But if you want a "cheap" tank. I'd stick to a betta. They seem to be the cheapest I've come across.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Most pet shop employees are misinformed on their pet selection. It's best to take their advice, as with any, with a grain of salt.

Goldfish, of any species, require two to three times the amount of normal filtration to pick up their waste (which they produce a lot of) and aerate the water well enough for them. they also need huge spaces to grow out in because even if their bodies stop growing, their organs don't. It's like over stuffing a suitcase. You'll run into serious problems eventually.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

they did have a really pretty white one there. it had a bit of violet in to too. but if i get another betta then ill need heating which i dont know if itll cook him or not


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I think your best bet for right now is to save up for the proper equipment as well as a box of aquarium salt and a box of epsom salt before you get another betta. Also, do a bit more research for common illnesses and general needs and ask as many questions as you need.

Both of those salt tend to be able to take care of a rather broad spectrum of problems faced by bettas.

I'd wait until you had a good sized tank, a correctly sized heater for it, aquarium salt, epsom salt, and a good anti-parasitic medication. I'm only saying good sized tank because bowls and anything less than 3 gallons tends to be harder find heaters to fit.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

mum was going to take me to the pet shop tomorrow to look at getting another fish  ive just texted her about all the proper stuff i need (heater, salt etc) any specific brands i should get?


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

For epsom salt, just be sure it is plain epsom salt (Magnesium sulfate I believe, a google search should bring up the exact chemical compound you need and it's relatively cheap). If you can get API brand for the aquarium salt, that will be good. It's aquarium specific so you don't have to worry about the ingredients in it so much.

Depending on your tank size, you'll want to look into 5 watts per gallon of your tank for a heater. Adjustables are always the best choice to go with just in case it overheats at one setting, you can still find a setting that heats just right. (I have a heater for up to 5 gallons heating a half full 2.5 gallon tank. It's et at 78, but is heating to 80, so I know it's a bit stronger than I need and that I need to watch the temperature carefully). You'll want a thermometer that you can suction to the inside of the tank as well since those are more accurate.

Soooo....
-Plain epsom salt
-Aquarium salt
-Heater appropriate to your tank size (Preferable adjustable)
-Suction cup thermometer
-Good anti-parasite medication (I use API General Cure or Jungle Anti-Parasite Tabs, but I don't know if you can get those in Australia)


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i have a 1 gallon tank at the moment. is there a heater thats good for it? also the Ph tester that my brother ordered came


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

You shouldn't have to worry about pH with bettas. they can adjust to anything within reason pH-wise.

For a 1 gallon, there's practically nothing. If you go to somewhere with heaters, look for something 25 watts or less. You can probably find a little 10 watt heater. Generally 5 watts per gallon is the safe rule.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50W-110V...993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484031e8c9
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-25W-...4?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item58901c4e88

the only heaters i could find that werent 100-300W

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-...598?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fa3aa84e
and a LCD thermometr
he got the ph trester cause he has guppies, tetras and a small shark too


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I'd go with the 25 watt one. That one is less likely to cook your tank since it's smaller.

The temperature on that one is measured in Celsius, so you'll want to search for a unit converter to see which temperature setting you'll try to start out with. do not use the heater before you get a thermometer though. It's unsafe since you won't know how warm the water is and if it will harm your fish. you'll also be able to determine if the heater will work properly once you get a thermometer to test it.

and you don't necessarily need a digital thermometer. If you want that one, then go for it, but since you're on a limited budget if you're buying (or to be easier on your mother's wallet) you could probably find a much cheaper thermometer similar to this one that works just as well: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752255&lmdn=Fish+Heating

It doesn't have to be this exact one, but I'm sure you can find one like it.

Also, until you have all of these supplies, I'd wait on a fish.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

so the LCD one would be fine? its just that ive always seen the glass ones in pet shops


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

LCD would work. either will.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i think ill go for the glass one. it takes up less room and no batterys


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380374896264?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270737754768?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://beaufortanimalsupplies.com.au/product/vet-products/ointments-and-medicines/epsom-salts-1kg
http://www.petshop-online.com.au/prod379.htm
http://www.petshop-online.com.au/prod378.htm

all the things im going to try and get mum to buy


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Don't bother with the Melafix. It can be very harmful to your betta should you slightly overdose on it. It has tea tree oil in it, which is harmful to their breathing organ and it leaves a film on top of the water, making it hard for bettas to surface for air.

The aquarium salt, should you catch an external illness relatively quickly, will take care of anything Melafix is designed to treat. The aquarium salt is also safer and usually more effective.

I still say wait on getting another fish until you have the salts, the heater, and the thermometer. If your mom complains about it, just say you want to make sure you're taking care of it properly. It's a living creature and should be treated as such.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

yea medications seem dodgy to me. and when she gets home tonight ill ask her to get the things from the sites. she should say yes cause theyre all from australia and the most expensive thing is the aquarium salt.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

For medications, it's generally good to stay away from anything that has "fix" in the name. Bettafix and Melefix are the two major ones. Bettafix is just watered down Melefix, so the harmful substance is less, but it's still there.

Maracyn, Maracyn 2, General Cure, anything from Jungle, and API are what are usually safe so long as your diagnosis is correct as well as your dosing. If you think you're new betta is sick, post in this section again, there's a form to fill out that will help us out a lot. Post pictures too since they usually help us a lot more than just a wall of text too.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

i cant get any good pics. my camera is dodgy


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## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

Aquarium salt is really just finely ground Kosher salt (not iodized), which is typically easier to obtain for a smaller price. You just have to remember to either grind it down or dissolve it in water before you add it to your "tank".


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

my mum just came home and told me no to the heater. said she'd talk to me tomorrow


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

I got a new betta today. Meet Arun, a cambodian VT. He's so pretty. And i have aquarium salt too. whenever i get pets im getting them from where i got Arun from.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

That's a nice set up, much better than your original.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Very nice =) He is a pretty one
Is there a reason the level of the water is only halfway? Give him a full tank to swim around in =)


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

ProudMotherOfABetta12 said:


> my mum just came home and told me no to the heater. said she'd talk to me tomorrow


Any update on the heater? Because if you can't get one, you might want to look into a different home for Arun. I know you probably adore him already, but it simply wouldn't be fair to keep him if you couldn't provide what he needed. 

He is truly gorgeous and I hope you can get a heater for him son. :-D +1 on filling the tank up all the way - not only would it give him more room to swim, it would also improve the water quality (more water means the ammonia he produces will be more diluted).


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

the pet shop lady told me to top up his water after a few days so he doesnt go into shock. and i was apparently doing too many water changes and taking out too much water at once. mums still not budging on the heater but im trying to get a job so that i can buy a bigger tank and a heater. if i get money then i can pay for some of the power bill then she cant complain. im trying really hard and i have aquarium salt now. mum wasnt going to get it at first but after she saw how cheap it is she really couldnt complain. im trying to get mum to get me a thermometre for him too. she should get me it cause it doesnt even use batterys.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Pet shops aren't usually the best for advice. They're the people that tell you once a month is ok, but that bettas like dirty water. In truth bettas need a higher quality of water and some more space than is mentioned at most pet stores.

A 1 gallon tank, regardless of filter or not, will need 1 50% and 1 100% weekly to care for the ammonia build up that happens naturally. Bettas are sensitive to ammonia and get burns from it quite easily.


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## ProudMotherOfABetta12 (Oct 27, 2011)

then thats what ill do. its just that i trust this person cause she actually cares about the animals instead of just thinking of them as money. she even runs an animal rescue. she had a baby kangaroo a few weeks ago. it was adorable.


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