# few questions from a newbie



## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

About 2 months ago the state fair came through, my son won 3 goldfish. We stopped on the way home, bought all the stuff we needed (3 gallon tank, rocks, decorations, etc) and of course they were dead by the next day. So I did some research, found this place, read a lot and ended up with a betta. I got a new tank and she was in a 5 gallon tank with a hillstream loach. Upgraded the tank to a 10 gallon and added an ADF. ADF, betta and loach are all happy, well, the loach is just there. She (he?) tends to just stick by the filter and in hindsight, I wouldn't have gotten it (bad petco advice). The 10 gallon tank came with the bio wheel filter but I swapped it out for the Whisper that came with the 5 gallon since the betta seemed to hate the flow. 

Can I add anything else? The loach is rarely visible without serious looking, the ADF is entertaining as is the betta but it seems so empty in there. She is not aggressive or timid, seems pretty laid back to me actually. I like the tetras but I'm not sure a school wouldn't overload the tank.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The tank is overstocked the Betta and the frog are fully stocking if the loach is black and orange it grows huge and schools so you need a way bigger tank the loach is not a good tank mate the Betta is too aggressive. 
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus 
http://tamarind.hubpages.com/hub/Clown-Loaches 
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/loaches1/p/clownloach.htm 
if it looks like this you get a big tank a 10 gallon is needed for fish friends that 10 gallon is minimum 5 gallon is fully stocked just with Betta and frog.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

Nope, its a hillstream loach like I said in the original post  From all the research I have seen on them, their max size is 2-4 inches....

Editing to add.... maybe I was to rambly in the original post. Loach. ADF and betta are all in the 10 gallon which is what I am looking to add more to.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

You can use this to help determine your capacity limit.

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

also you may need to upgrade the filter since it was made for a 5 gallon.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

saidbyme said:


> Nope, its a hillstream loach like I said in the original post  From all the research I have seen on them, their max size is 2-4 inches....


The tank is still overstocked they need a special tank for O2 it is way to small and under built for the loach one needs high current. 
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+885+3003&pcatid=3003 
http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-in-the-fast-lane 
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/HillstreamLoaches/HillstreamLoach.htm


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

You can always baffle the filter that was meant for the 10gal and your betta buddy may like it better.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

The hillstream loach won't do well in this tank. It needs huge filtration and a powerful current, which the betta won't appreciate. The originate in fast flowing streams with high oxygen content and have trouble breathing without good flow.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Olympia said:


> The hillstream loach won't do well in this tank. It needs huge filtration and a powerful current, which the betta won't appreciate. The originate in fast flowing streams with high oxygen content and have trouble breathing without good flow.


Finally :-D do not forget the size.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

ok so pull the loach out.... gotcha


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> You can always baffle the filter that was meant for the 10gal and your betta buddy may like it better.


Thanks I was looking into that earlier but the biowheel was so stupidly loud.... I think I may go with something quieter


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

registereduser said:


> You can use this to help determine your capacity limit.
> 
> http://www.aqadvisor.com/
> 
> also you may need to upgrade the filter since it was made for a 5 gallon.


Thanks! That makes things a lot easier


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I don't like bio wheels either. AquaTechs and AquaClears are good and quiet.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

10 doe not sound good for the loach and it can not be with the Betta find it a new home.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Ooooh I love hillstream loaces. They dont last too long at petco though. I believe they're fussy eater like the otos and needs a high water flow and high levels of oxygenation.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> 10 doe not sound good for the loach and it can not be with the Betta find it a new home.


Yes you have said this....


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Ooooh I love hillstream loaces. They dont last too long at petco though. I believe they're fussy eater like the otos and needs a high water flow and high levels of oxygenation.



I got one looking for a new home


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

saidbyme said:


> Yes you have said this....


I do not like people killing fish that is why I do not eat Sushi among other reasons re home the poor fish you got everything wrong in its care.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Alright, Choclate, s/he understands, no need to make her/him feel bad about it.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I do not like people killing fish that is why I do not eat Sushi among other reasons re home the poor fish you got everything wrong in its care.


Now now there is no need for that. She is trying to right the wrongs, people are misinformed and she's trying to rehome.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Alright, Choclate, s/he understands, no need to make her/him feel bad about it.


The person does not have the supplies/tank mates for it was a little harsh but what I said is true.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Time for bed Choc, what time zone are you in?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Time for bed Choc, what time zone are you in?


New York and I am in bed.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> The person does not have the supplies/tank mates for it was a little harsh but what I said is true.


Just be a little softer with your approach. People who post here are looking for help, and there is no need to scold when they understand the problem. They were likely misinformed, just like many others. But that is what we are here for. To *help and support.*


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> The person does not have the supplies/tank mates for it was a little harsh but what I said is true.


Yes, you have said it numerous times on this thread. I am sorry that Petco gave me bad advice when I bought the thing over a month ago. I haven't said "well I am keeping it anyway" or that I am going to flush it. I went specifically to Petco to get advice on what they had that would work with the betta for someone new to owning a fish. 

It was a mistake for me to post here, thanks to the folks that helped but this type of attack is ridiculous. Given that I spent $70 in supplies for state fair feeder fish, I think it is safe to say I don't view fish, or any animal for that matter, as disposable.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes Choclate, they didn't know any better and they said they'd take the loach back.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

saidbyme said:


> I got one looking for a new home


Hurrah! I want one when I get my own house XD they're sooo pretty.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I will admit I am being a little bit harsh.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I will admit I am being a little bit harsh.


Go to SLEEP. You'll be nicer in the morning :lol:


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Yup! I'm in NY too and it's definitely sleeeep time. your betta fishies are asleep too arent they?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Go to SLEEP. You'll be nicer in the morning :lol:


I am never nice I am anti social eating problems sleeping problems ETC If anything I am nicer at night.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I am never nice I am anti social eating problems sleeping problems ETC If anything I am nicer at night.


could have fooled me:-?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Yup! I'm in NY too and it's definitely sleeeep time. your betta fishies are asleep too arent they?


Yes but they have cleaner supplies more friends eat better more decorated room bigger room better food and less work.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

registereduser said:


> could have fooled me:-?


What do you mean I find it easy to fool and manipulate I value my pets more than people they treat me better.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

*This conversation has no relevance to the original question, which has been answered. Please stop with the off-topic discussion.
Thank you.*


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The loach will die in the 5 gallon and the 5 gallon tank is fully stocked with The Betta and ADF. Back on topic like you wanted right?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Choclate, the user already stated several times that they are taking the loach back tomorrow, okay?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

:quiet:


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks for the support and the PMs. I was caught off guard by the combative responses from one person but the ignore list is a beautiful thing. 

Here's the tank in question:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2a5zuc2.jpg

Sorry its way too large to post directly on here


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I think if you get some more plants, the tank will look fantastic! And some bettas love to 'sit' on things, and since they breathe air, having some large plants in the background that reach the top will give him something to rest on.  I gave Goblin a betta leaf, but he never used it. My new betta, Golem, sits on everything. Lol!


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> I think if you get some more plants, the tank will look fantastic! And some bettas love to 'sit' on things, and since they breathe air, having some large plants in the background that reach the top will give him something to rest on.  I gave Goblin a betta leaf, but he never used it. My new betta, Golem, sits on everything. Lol!


Any idea on types that can be found at a petsmart/petco place that large already? Shocking enough, the ones in the back were the biggest I could find! Maybe go silk?


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

At petco they have silk plants labelled by foreground and background and stuff, they can get pretty tall. I find my fish resting on stuff that has broader leaves.  I have a chain around here that has plants that are pretty darn tall, but idk if they'd be around you. Its called 'allfish emporium' here they've got a large variety of salt and freshwater fish, and a shark tank you get to watch them feed.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> At petco they have silk plants labelled by foreground and background and stuff, they can get pretty tall. I find my fish resting on stuff that has broader leaves.  I have a chain around here that has plants that are pretty darn tall, but idk if they'd be around you. Its called 'allfish emporium' here they've got a large variety of salt and freshwater fish, and a shark tank you get to watch them feed.


That is way cool! We have an aquarium store similar to that downtown but its a good 45 minute drive.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm like surrounded by pet stores! I've got a petsmart and petco around me, and the other place is only 15mins away. :3 I am lucky.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I have discovered the Petco tube plants, the water wisteria I just got is doing awesome and today I noticed they have anubias in a tube. They look healthy and they are snail-free. Gonna get me some come payday! They look great on driftwood.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm in NYC! I can take the subway anywhere! XD
There are some and some not so great stores around here. I've found petco's plant stocking list to be adequate  albeit overpriced.

Oh and the tube plants... watch out and double check to see if they're fully aquatic


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

registereduser said:


> I have discovered the Petco tube plants, the water wisteria I just got is doing awesome and today I noticed they have anubias in a tube. They look healthy and they are snail-free. Gonna get me some come payday! They look great on driftwood.


I have the anubias and sword from there. I'll have to check out the wisteria for sure!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

saidbyme said:


> I have the anubias and sword from there. I'll have to check out the wisteria for sure!


Is the anubias planted in the gravel? If so, it shouldn't be. You have to tie it onto a rock or wood and the roots will take hold on that. They will not grow in gravel or sand.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I heard hornwort was a great floating and rooted.

Water wisteria is a good ammonia sucker, right?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Not to sound rude my male in the 10 gallon planted tank has never been sick is active eats well hyper aggressive colorful and beautiful and maintains 80F.But hope you find the Loach a good home an apple or assassin snail might work.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Given assassin snails are carnivorous, they shouldn't be added to a tank willy nilly without a constant food source. I refuse to add mine to the substrate because my bettas would scrounge around and eat any meaty food source. Apple and mystery snails are a good idea though. They eat algae and vegetable matter, they are messy I hear. Kind of large bioload..
*I assume the OP cannot even see what post I am referring??

I love the pic saidbyme  Colorful! And I see your betta is a plakat. Would love for you to open another thread introducing yourself and pets!! (*unless you already did, in which case I apologize and will go look)


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Laki said:


> Given assassin snails are carnivorous, they shouldn't be added to a tank willy nilly without a constant food source. I refuse to add mine to the substrate because my bettas would scrounge around and eat any meaty food source. Apple and mystery snails are a good idea though. They eat algae and vegetable matter, they are messy I hear. Kind of large bioload..
> *I assume the OP cannot even see what post I am referring??
> 
> I love the pic saidbyme  Colorful! And I see your betta is a plakat. Would love for you to open another thread introducing yourself and pets!! (*unless you already did, in which case I apologize and will go look)


Assassin snails will scavenge food like flakes.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Is the anubias planted in the gravel? If so, it shouldn't be. You have to tie it onto a rock or wood and the roots will take hold on that. They will not grow in gravel or sand.



D'oh! Thank you! yes, I had it planted in the gravel. Something else to change!


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

Laki said:


> Given assassin snails are carnivorous, they shouldn't be added to a tank willy nilly without a constant food source. I refuse to add mine to the substrate because my bettas would scrounge around and eat any meaty food source. Apple and mystery snails are a good idea though. They eat algae and vegetable matter, they are messy I hear. Kind of large bioload..
> *I assume the OP cannot even see what post I am referring??
> 
> I love the pic saidbyme  Colorful! And I see your betta is a plakat. Would love for you to open another thread introducing yourself and pets!! (*unless you already did, in which case I apologize and will go look)


Thank you! Is there anything specific I should watch for with Plakats? When we got her, she happened to be the only "male" wal-mart had. When we found out she was a she not a he, my son (6) was adamant that he needed a boy and by then, I liked her and had fun learning about her so we set him up with a boy tank in his room. There'd be reasons I haven't even mentioned that one  

We went from a 3 gallon to 2 5 gallons to a 10 and a 5.... all because of the stupid state fair :lol:


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I keep assassins and they are carnivores they eat flakes and snails if given the chance the tube they have i have seen them swallowing flakes and they have had no live food access they are healthy.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

if you want something to clean up algae, nerites are a better option. Smaller bioload, much less poo than apples, max out at just under an inch, and they cannot reproduce in fresh water.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Silverfang said:


> if you want something to clean up algae, nerites are a better option. Smaller bioload, much less poo than apples, max out at just under an inch, and they cannot reproduce in fresh water.


I agree with you in a ten Otos or cories hiding spaces are important. Technically apple snails need two of opposite genders (unlike most snails which have one gender).


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

So I think I am planning on doing aAny tips/tricks on making sure they get their food and betta gets hers? Is there a problem if she eats tetra food or they eat her food? She eats the Omega pellets, I'm assuming there is a tetra specific food. I tried Hikari and she spit them out every time.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

saidbyme said:


> So I think I am planning on doing aAny tips/tricks on making sure they get their food and betta gets hers? Is there a problem if she eats tetra food or they eat her food? She eats the Omega pellets, I'm assuming there is a tetra specific food. I tried Hikari and she spit them out every time.


New Life Spectrum pellets are supposed to be the best. My girls eat those PLUS Hikari Micro Pellets (I'm trying to use them up, I no longer have neons) and some of them pick at the sinking catfish wafers. Bettas are carnivores so anything plant based is not that nutritious for them. 

Some people separate the betta to feed it. I have a feeder ring, maybe put one type of food there and the rest outside the ring?

Or feed the betta pellets first, then feed the other fish after.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

registereduser said:


> New Life Spectrum pellets are supposed to be the best. My girls eat those PLUS Hikari Micro Pellets (I'm trying to use them up, I no longer have neons) and some of them pick at the sinking catfish wafers. Bettas are carnivores so anything plant based is not that nutritious for them.
> 
> Some people separate the betta to feed it. I have a feeder ring, maybe put one type of food there and the rest outside the ring?
> 
> Or feed the betta pellets first, then feed the other fish after.


Thank you!!

Oh and hillstream is moving to his new home today! I found a fish guy on Craigslist that I emailed and he has a tons of tanks and space and knew a TON bout hillstreams already so we are going to make the drive to meet and pass him to a better home.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Awesome! Your lucky you found someone so quickly. I love happy fish tales!


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Glad to hear the loach found a good home.


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

xjenuhfur said:


> Awesome! Your lucky you found someone so quickly. I love happy fish tales!


Definitely!!! We are going out to her fish ranch. She has mollies, platties and tetras too. She offered to trade but I don't know... I feel like she is doing me the favor if that makes sense. She also has a 75gal tank that is ALL plants. I am SO looking forward to going out there!


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Glad to hear the loach found a good home.


meeeeee toooooooo it is a HUGE sigh of relief. No, they don't communicate like my dogs or cats and they aren't willing to sit in my lap (ha!) but I really do only want what is best for them


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Omg a fish ranch?! /drool


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Heheee, maybe she'll give you some plants! :-D


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

saidbyme said:


> Definitely!!! We are going out to her fish ranch. She has mollies, platties and tetras too. She offered to trade but I don't know... I feel like she is doing me the favor if that makes sense. She also has a 75gal tank that is ALL plants. I am SO looking forward to going out there!


sounds like our OldFishLady!



Olympia said:


> Heheee, maybe she'll give you some plants! :-D


definitely try to trade him for some plants!


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## saidbyme (Sep 3, 2012)

The fish "ranch" was super cool. She had a plec that was almost 2 feet long and britsle nosed and rope fish and coral tanks and breeding tanks and I dunno.... never quite seen a set up like that! We ended up bringing home 6 glowlight tetras and an apple snail. I have then in a quarantine tank for now to make sure they are fine (which I am sure they are. I can't wait to introduce all of them!


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## pyro fiend (Oct 20, 2011)

wow what an amazing tale! happy to hear everything went well. only thing is, youl prob need to take your betta out of the 10 for a little wiel when your about to introduce them. maybe even move around the tank a bit. as bettas can be territorial but usually do fine when added to a already 'started' tank


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