# Both betta ignoring each other



## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

Hello, I am a new breeder and trying to breed them, but when i put them together they are ignoring each other. Is it because of this common type bought from normal fish store is not for breeding?Do i have to buy those ex(crowntail,half moon,etc.) for breeding? Can anyone tell me what's the name of my betta?









my male betta, i took him out for a proper shot, i put him back immediately after taking the photo. Oh yes, if you are wondering why is the tail like this, i put him in a small container with divider, i didn't notice the divider was loose and there are two fish in i. I went out for a few hours and came back it became like this.









my female betta, could not get a clear shot, im sorry

please excuse me for my english


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

The female looks a bit stressed... and doesn't seem to be full of eggs at this time, which will affect how they react to one another.

How did you condition the pair, and for how long?

Conditioning can take anywhere from 7-14 days recommended.. feeding live/frozen foods and high quality pellet food. Lots and lots of food.. feeding a few times a day until the female's belly is pretty swollen. The live/frozen foods (such as bloodworms) will help the female get in breeding mode and fill up with eggs.
I found it best to card the pair - allowing them to see no other fish regularly. But allow them to see each other for 10-20 minutes a day. I would card for at least 5-14 days.

If the female is ready to pop then you don't need to separate them when placed into the breeding tank. But if she doesn't seem too ready then you would want to keep them separated while in the breeding tank, but allow them to see one another. I usually keep them separated while in the breeding tank anywhere from 12-24hrs.. it will allow the male time to build a nest and flirt with one another without hurting each other.

Then once released you will leave them be.. don't disturb them, checking on them a couple times a day without disturbing them though.. just peek in to see if they are doing anything. Covering the tank will help keep them from distractions.

The tank set up is important too - how is it set up? Temp, live plants, etc..
I have found it easier to breed virgin fish in small containers/bowls within the tank itself.

Sometimes it takes a while with virgin fish.. can take a week or two before they do anything. Recently had a pair of virgins that ignored each other for a week before they spawned, and had another pair spawn within hours of being introduced.. so it all varies.

Best you can do is make sure they are conditioned really good, the female is ready and then just leave them be.. only disturb them and remove one if they become too aggressive. But some aggressive/nipping/chasing is normal.

It doesn't matter that they came from pet stores, it all comes down to conditioning and how ready the female is.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

i just put them in today, maybe i am abit too anxious. i will leave them for for maybe for a few days, i will try covering them with some kind of cloth so won't be disturbed. I ask some of my friends, they said it just the matter amount of time.

I put a tank with male betta in it and in the centre i put a jar with female in it.
I do not have a heater as the temperature in my country is just right (30~35)
I do not have decoration becoz i'm trying to save cost. My parents said there is no need for such decoration.

Oh yes, I feed them AZOO 9 IN 1 BETTA PELLET .
So i will leave them alone for a week and observe.

thx !!

PS: do you know what's the name of my betta type??


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Male is plakat and female is vt. All the babies should turn out vt unless female is carrying the pk gene.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I wouldn't just throw them together and hope for the best for a week if the female is not ready to mate it's more likely the male will just kill her. You need to remove her and condition them both until the female is full of eggs.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

^+1 
The male only tolerates the female if she will produce eggs, if not then he will have no reason to be kind to her. 
She should look fat and have vertical stripes to know when she is ready to breed.
Like this


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I agree. Two conditioned fish that are both ready to spawn will spawn surprisingly fast once they have been introduced to each other. 

When I had a sibling pair of splendens, I waited until the female was literally trying to smash through the side of her breeders' net before releasing. They spawned within about five minutes of me letting them in together. No damage done to either fish. 

Before that when I tested them out the male had continually chased the female around, and the female had shown no interest in courtship or the bubblenest. 

Betta splendens have been known to seriously injure and even kill each other in the spawning tank, so it is important that you only let your fish in together when both are ready.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Just a few more suggestions. I always have places for my female to hide. Those "decorations" do serve a pupose if used correctly. I prefer bundled plants, for the female can go as deep inside as she wishes to "disappear" and have a rest from a faster stronger male. I also place rocks or potted plants in each corner. This allows for a long chase along the length of the tank which will tire out the aggression of the male. If the male takes too long finding her, she will come out from hiding and the chase begins again. If you ever see a horizontal stripe, from mouth to tail, on the female, pull her. This is a sign she is stressed and scared. They will not spawn if you see this stripe.

Also, and I don't know of anyone else who does this, but I put my female in a jar that has about an inch lip above the water line, and is big enough for her to swim forward a little. When she is ready, she will jump out of the container into the rest of the tank. You need that inch lip so she doesn't inadvertantly jump when spooked by the male. With the lip, she has to put forth the effort to make the jump. Works every time.

If you cannot buy "dicorations" you can use other items such as styrofoam cups. They will sucction to the walls of the tank if there is a small rim around the bottom. Make sure though that they are big enough so the female does not get trapped inside if the male finds her. Or even better, cut holes in the sides for an escape route. make sure everything you use is clean and preferable new. Do not use anything that has been washed with soap for it may have a residue on it. That can kill your fish.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

this is my current set up, i'll try to find some ways to get plants.
now my male betta is always chasing the female(outside the jar ). 
Is my current setup correct? Oh yes, i do not have filter,etc..
And also what do you mean by condition?
I want to take out the jar and see is my female full of eggs but i scare that i would disturb them









i also saw something like bubblenest frmo my female, i had never seen it before when i was putting them in other tanks. can those possibly be eggs?

and also my two other male bettas quite often make bubble nest even without seeing a female, all by themselve. is this normal??


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Males will typically blow bubble nest simply because they are happy. Even without seeing a female. This is normal. The bubbles you see in the females jar is a good sign. Does she have the vertical, up and down, bars on her sides like posted a picture of? If she does, that is a good sign also.

For a filter, all you need is a sponge, air hose, and an air pump. I do not start the filter until the fry are free swimming for about 4 days. Do not put it on too strong, because it will suck in the fry and they will not be strong enough to break free.

Conditioning means getting the male and female strong, healthy, and in breeding condition. I do this by feeding a variety of foods including live. Making their days at least 16 hours long by turning on their lights early and turning them off late, warmer temps around 80*-82*F, letting them see each other for a few minutes a few times a day. This will get the male reved up and trigger the female to produce eggs. Also, most spawnings can be a tough endevor. They can be very hard on each other biting and tearing each others fins and even removing scales. If you do not condition them ahead of time, you could lose one or both after the spawn. They really need to be in tip top condition for them to make it through a spawn. You really shouldn't leave them in a bare tank for a spawn. I would not risk that. Imo, the female needs a place to retreat. Some may disagree with me on that, but I've never lost a female after a spawn either. If you look around, you should be able to find something to put in the tank that doesn't cost anything. like cups. Look on the bottom of the female and see if right behind the ventrals if you see a white dot. You can pull out the jar she is in too look at her. It will not disturb them at all.The minute you put it back, they will be all the happier to see one another if they are ready to spawn.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

The things you see in the females jar are small bubbles. Sometimes though the female will expell her eggs before the actual spawn. The eggs are white dots. There will also be a light white cloud around them if the female expells them on her own. Some females will build a nest to put their unfertile eggs in. But I think your female is just blowing bubbles out of excitement and flirting with the male


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hi junjun, welcome to the forum.

You need to understand a few of their body language - how they swim in fighting mode and in breeding mode. Understanding this will help you decide when to introduce and later release the pair/female.

In fighting mode they will flare and hold their position. Females often won't flare but don't be surprised if they do.
In breeding mode, they will flare but swim all over the tank. If they were together, they will follow one another, swimming all over the tank in an "S" or wriggling style. . . . . look at the way the males with bubble nests flare/swim . . . or look at youtube videos on betta fighting and betta breeding.
@females - after all that courtship, when female is ready to embrace, she will approach the male/nest in a head down position. This isn't always obvious but females do so. 

If you use the "female in jar" method, you should release female when her colors are vibrant and she is in a head down position when ever male approaches. 
....................

As far as I can tell, you are using a bare tank method . . . what I call "Asian" method. Bare tank method is more risky for the female - she doesn't have anywhere to hide. Often the female will end up with torn fins and scales. But they should breed faster. So be careful and make sure the female isn't too badly beaten.

If possible, try to get live aquatic plants. Anacharis and a few other "bushy" plants are abundant in our countries and should be quite cheap. Use lots of these plants in half or in one opposite corner to the nest in your breeding tank. This will serve as a hide out for the female and should contain micro organism for fry's first day or two after they begin to eat.

Determine what fry food you will use. Remember that you cannot use both live and non live at the same time. If you choose live (microworms, BBS, etc) you can't use, for example, hard boiled egg yolk. Make sure you have them ready before you breed your pair.

...............................

For now I suggest you isolate your pair . . . specially female. Keep her in a dark place and feed lots of food. If you can, feed live like tubifex or mosquito larva. But frozen blood worms works well too. After a week or so, show her a male and see how she reacts - flirt swim or fight swim. If she flirts, you can breed her. but if she doesn't, she needs more conditioning - isolate and daily flare.


BTW, your male is PK and your female is VT. If you can, breed the same fin type. PK x PK, VT x VT, HM x HM . .. . and so on.

Good Luck.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

louisvillelady :
my female have horizontal stripes like the first pictured i posted. i'll try styrofoam cup

indjo :
i can see that my female belly is bloated and there is a white dot under it.
my male betta will flare at her and chase her around the jar ( at outside)
i think i am using styrofoam and i will cut holes at the side for the female to escape if the male find him. but my male betta isn't making any bubble nest? so what should i do now?

I really appreciate the help of you guys! I hope i can success at my first try. :-D


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

i think i'll seperate them for few days? should i try changing a male betta? this male betta is very fierce, i have one that is very Timid


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

If she has a horizontal stripe from head to tail, then she is scared and not ready to breed. It would be best to pull her and condition her and in the mean time gather all the things you need. It will happen!


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

louisvillelady said:


> If she has a horizontal stripe from head to tail, then she is scared and not ready to breed. It would be best to pull her and condition her and in the mean time gather all the things you need. It will happen!


thx so much for everybody's help ! i will now restart from step 1 all over again! will reply back few days later, thx everybody!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I use the empty tank way personally.. actually, I breed mine in bowls and small container with nothing but an Indian Almond Leaf to anchor the eggs.. have had them breed within hours of being introduced up into a week from introduction (both virgins). So your way is fine - but indjo is correct, the females get beat up quite a bit more.. have to remove them immediately after a spawn. 

I would remove them for a couple of days.. make it so they don't see any other fish, but allow each other to see one another for about 10-20 minutes a day. Feed lots of food to bulk her up some more and then place them in the tank. Keep her in the jar, once you see the vertical bars and them flirting you can release her.. then it's a waiting game. As long as they have fed well, you don't need to feed them.. I did with my virgin pair, and I believe that is why it took them that long to spawn.. once I stopped and left them alone they got down to business. 
Another reason not to feed is you don't want to foul up the water too much with leftover food/waste. Why conditioning them before putting them together is very important - gives them time to bulk up with nutrition.

What plans do you have for the fry? Food? Grow out tank? Containers?

As others have said, it's all about patience when breeding.. good luck!


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

Myates said:


> I use the empty tank way personally.. actually, I breed mine in bowls and small container with nothing but an Indian Almond Leaf to anchor the eggs.. have had them breed within hours of being introduced up into a week from introduction (both virgins). So your way is fine - but indjo is correct, the females get beat up quite a bit more.. have to remove them immediately after a spawn.
> 
> I would remove them for a couple of days.. make it so they don't see any other fish, but allow each other to see one another for about 10-20 minutes a day. Feed lots of food to bulk her up some more and then place them in the tank. Keep her in the jar, once you see the vertical bars and them flirting you can release her.. then it's a waiting game. As long as they have fed well, you don't need to feed them.. I did with my virgin pair, and I believe that is why it took them that long to spawn.. once I stopped and left them alone they got down to business.
> Another reason not to feed is you don't want to foul up the water too much with leftover food/waste. Why conditioning them before putting them together is very important - gives them time to bulk up with nutrition.
> ...


so i do not have to change fish? well, i will use egg yolk i think, i will use small containers to seperate the naughty ones . and also in my country you cannot find any indian almond leaf


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

junjun0857 said:


> i think i'll seperate them for few days? should i try changing a male betta? this male betta is very fierce, i have one that is very Timid


What is important is the female. If you can't relieve her from stress/afraid, she will never breed. So Isolate your female like I said above. If she is healthy, she should want to breed in a few days. But some may take much longer to regain their mentality. Before you show her a male, try showing her a mirror, if she flares she should respond to a male. But if she doesn't, don't show her a male yet.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

indjo said:


> What is important is the female. If you can't relieve her from stress/afraid, she will never breed. So Isolate your female like I said above. If she is healthy, she should want to breed in a few days. But some may take much longer to regain their mentality. Before you show her a male, try showing her a mirror, if she flares she should respond to a male. But if she doesn't, don't show her a male yet.


ok so now i will feed her more, give her more nutrients needed to standby first and then i try again maybe in two or three days time

PS:i tried removing the female from the jar and put the male tgt ( will remove immediately), wanted to see the reaction, it ended up that my female betta was chasing after the male one... the male one was running away the whole time, i dont know should i laugh or not...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

junjun0857 said:


> ok so now i will feed her more, give her more nutrients needed to standby first and then i try again maybe in two or three days time
> 
> PS:i tried removing the female from the jar and put the male tgt ( will remove immediately), wanted to see the reaction, it ended up that my female betta was chasing after the male one... the male one was running away the whole time, i dont know should i laugh or not...


???? . . . How were they swimming? When in breeding mode, one will follow the other - sort of "follow the leader" game. They will swim in a wriggly style covering the whole tank. But in fighting mode they just swim normally and if afraid will often dash away. This is why it's important that you understand this body language. 

If male previously flared, and an aggressive female in fighting mode is released, they will fight. It is very unlikely the male would run away. 

Since you're starting over, try a different male, a male that has a bubble nest in his solitary tank. He is more likely to be in breeding mode.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

indjo said:


> ???? . . . How were they swimming? When in breeding mode, one will follow the other - sort of "follow the leader" game. They will swim in a wriggly style covering the whole tank. But in fighting mode they just swim normally and if afraid will often dash away. This is why it's important that you understand this body language.
> 
> If male previously flared, and an aggressive female in fighting mode is released, they will fight. It is very unlikely the male would run away.
> 
> Since you're starting over, try a different male, a male that has a bubble nest in his solitary tank. He is more likely to be in breeding mode.


the male just swim in a straight line as fast as he could and wasn't flaring, the female was flaring and chasing against him. the female is probably in fighting mode and the male was probably tired


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

also can i ask how do u relief stress from female betta?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

For this pair, relief of stress would be away from one another in their own tank. Place them in their own tank, don't let them see another fish but each other and only for 10-20 minutes a day. Let the male build up his confidence once more, let the female become more receptive to breeding. It's a lot to do with how ready/prepared the fish are when it comes to successful spawning. Not ready = no spawning and risk of injury.

This is a female who is in the middle of breeding.. notice her large belly (was bigger, but had already laid some eggs). Not shown in the picture, but she is very submissive at this point to- whenever the male comes near her she goes head down and tilts to the side. Didn't want to disturb them, but you get the idea of what the female should look like when ready to pop with eggs.
(They are in a plastic bin within the tank, plastic bin has nothing but an IAL leaf for nest anchor - the bin helps to keep them focused on one another)


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Males don't usually do that. Are you sure he is a male?

Stress: Totally isolate, if possible in the dark for a few days. The longer the better. Isolation will make them more confident and will make them flare against other bettas. Before showing/flaring them to another betta, try mirrors. With mirrors . . . well the reflection won't chase the betta away. LOL. If it flares against a mirror then try other bettas. Use females as sparring partners. When you feel they are very confident, then you can other males to spar. . . Oh remember, Flare only a few minutes and color influences mentality. Don't flare them to a color they are afraid of until they have regained their confidence.


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## junjun0857 (Feb 12, 2013)

ok thx for the help so far guys


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