# PETA doesn't want us to have betta fish.



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

And they say they need a minimum of 10-13 gallons :roll:

This organization is a wacko cult. Some of the things they say are freakin crazy...

read this:

http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animals/betta-fish.aspx


----------



## megaredize (May 21, 2012)

ya that is pushing it. at the end they say not to even buy betta fish period. but thats PETA for you.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Yeah by saying not to buy them they basically don't want us to have them...Thats what I picked up anyway...


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

The first half I agree with but once they got to 10gal min I was sketchy and then they said don't buy them and support the stores that sell them. Well the stores that sell them also sell other animal products so even if you buy dog food you support those stores. I say buy those betta's and give them a good home if you can. You can't save them all but if you can save one then it's better than letting it die right? Give it a good life and hope the others can have the same.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

LadyVictorian said:


> The first half I agree with but once they got to 10gal min I was sketchy and then they said don't buy them and support the stores that sell them. Well the stores that sell them also sell other animal products so even if you buy dog food you support those stores. I say buy those betta's and give them a good home if you can. You can't save them all but if you can save one then it's better than letting it die right? Give it a good life and hope the others can have the same.


+1

They were right about the betta vases; but the 10 gal minimum and don't buy them? come on guys they are domestic animals...Humans have been keeping domestic animals for thousands of years. We like having them around us. It's almost instinctive...


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I said this in another thread about my rats but I don't think my betta would want to live in the wild. He has it made here. His biggest worry is the giant thing that sucks up water. That's his only twice a week worry or concern. And sometimes that mystery fish that looks just like him who appears and then vanishes.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Yeah I say we treat them pretty well...


----------



## harleraven (Sep 4, 2012)

PETA does not want anyone to have any pets at all. If it were up to them, all domestic animals would be gone.

However, I do agree with not purchasing bettas from a pet store that does not care for them properly. One purchased just opens up room for another to be abused. The more that are sold, the more that are produced and forced to suffer. Either way, the same number (technically MORE) will be abused and possibly die. It really is heartbreaking, but the only way to stop the supply is to stop the demand.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

harleraven said:


> PETA does not want anyone to have any pets at all. If it were up to them, all domestic animals would be gone.
> 
> However, I do agree with not purchasing bettas from a pet store that does not care for them properly. One purchased just opens up room for another to be abused. The more that are sold, the more that are produced and forced to suffer. Either way, the same number (technically MORE) will be abused and possibly die. It really is heartbreaking, but the only way to stop the supply is to stop the demand.


Yeah but that is not what they are saying. They are saying no fishies for us at all. I hate PETA with a burning passion now...Pet keeping is my hobby and what keeps me going.


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

This is why we should not listen to a damn thing these dummies say


> According to records from the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, PETA has killed more than 25,000 animals (mostly dogs and cats) at its headquarters in Norfolk, Virginia.
> According to records from the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, PETA killed 1,911 cats and dogs last year while placing just 24 in adoptive homes. Since 1998, a total of 27,751 pets have died at the hands of PETA workers.
> "PETA hasn’t slowed down its slaughterhouse operation, even as the group continues to lecture the American public with its phony ‘animal rights’ message," said Rick Berman, CCF’s Executive Director. "It appears PETA is more concerned with funding its media and advertising antics than finding suitable homes for these dogs and cats."
> Despite its $37.4 million budget, PETA employees make little effort to find homes for the thousands of animals they kill every year.


Plus arent these the same idiots that tried to have catfish renamed to something more...ethical?

EDIT



> People don't seem to like fish. They're slithery and slimy, and they have eyes on either side of their pointy little heads—which is weird, to say the least. Plus, the small ones nibble at your feet when you're swimming, and the big ones—well, the big ones will bite your face off if _Jaws_ is anything to go by.
> Of course, if you look at it another way, what all this really means is that fish need to fire their PR guy—_stat_. Whoever was in charge of creating a positive image for fish needs to go right back to working on the Britney Spears account and leave our scaly little friends alone. You've done enough damage, buddy. We've got it from here. And we're going to start by retiring the old name for good. When your name can also be used as a verb that means driving a hook through your head, it's time for a serious image makeover. And who could possibly want to put a hook through a sea kitten?


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Wow they are morons


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

more like wackos....


----------



## harleraven (Sep 4, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Yeah but that is not what they are saying. They are saying no fishies for us at all. I hate PETA with a burning passion now...Pet keeping is my hobby and what keeps me going.


I think you missed the part where I said they don't want us to have any animals at all.  Believe me, I am not friend of PETA! They are total whack jobs.


----------



## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

Keeping bettas is actually a good thing unless if you do buy them and keep them in the cup they give you, a bowl, or even a vase. People who know about aquarium keeping though don't do this and they give the betta a better home. Basically, PETA is contradicting themselves. They want animals to be cared for like humans but to leave them in a cup at a store for them to live a miserable life until their death, PETA might as well be advocating people to wipe out the species altogether. If PETA were in control of the world, house dogs would live in the woods to be eaten by the wolves, house cats would live in the jungle to be eaten by the tigers, and bettas would live in the ocean to either be eaten by whatever got to it first or die by the salt content.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

What does PETA say about carnivorous animals? They don't want us eating animals so....


----------



## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> What does PETA say about carnivorous animals? They don't want us eating animals so....


They lecture the animals that they are engaging in animal cruelty and pray that the circle of life changes its ways.


----------



## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

PETA's stance seems to be that animals should not be kept as pets. I am all for animal rights, but PETA is a tad extreme, especially since most animals people keep these days were developed and domesticated of MANY years in order to be pets.


----------



## AngesRadieux (Oct 6, 2011)

Does anyone find it slightly ironic that they don't want people to have domesticated animals and yet they have an article that condemns letting cats roam around outside as cruel and negligent? xD
http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animals/outdoor-cats.aspx

Yup. We can't have them as domestic pets, but we also can't let them wander around outside. So I guess we should just kill all cats since there's apparently no suitable way for them to live in the modern world? Just more stupidity from PETA. Hate them!


----------



## WildFlower (May 8, 2012)

Reading this thread was the first time I've heard of PETA, and I can't believe some of the things they say.  I mean, the only article I read that I agreed with was declawing. Also, did anyone notice how the betta pictured on the left looked like he had a stress stripe and was lethargic/unhealthy? Or did they purposely pick a picture that was bad instead of a healthy betta? It might just be me though...


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

They actually want all domesticated animals wiped out. As in cats, dogs, cattle, horses etc. made extinct. That is essentially the end game of their organisation. There are about a hundred quotes from the head honcho in regards to this. I believe there is one something along the lines of, "One generation and out". 

Unfortunately, they and the HSUS are masters at gleaning donations from the ignorant masses. People think they are helping the animals, but really all they are doing is lining the pockets of those in charge, and paying for all their whacky advertisements and campaigns.


----------



## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

inareverie85 said:


> PETA's stance seems to be that animals should not be kept as pets. I am all for animal rights, but PETA is a tad extreme, especially since most animals people keep these days were developed and domesticated of MANY years in order to be pets.


 
Exactly. Think about it, house dogs and wolves are part of the same family just like house cats and tigers are. Even though this is true, putting a house cat in the jungle won't work out just like putting a tiger in a house isn't right (even though this has been done). These animals are adapted to certain environments.


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Someone who supported PETA told me it was cruel to keep horses in a stall and ride them. I then went on to show them the horrible things that happen to wild horses and showed them the nice warm dry stalls that are temp controlled that my horses live in and that they get brushed daily. Then I asked if they would rather die at one year of age and be slaughtered by some animal or live to 30 loved for and cared for. They said "I wouldn't want to live in a cage all my life." and I said. "Then why are you so happily living in one right now?" OUTSMARTED. PETA people are sheeple not people, they just follow the flock off the cliff and to their doom. Can't help them.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I am very upset that this organization exists.... If they reached their goals, the ecosystem would be ruined because there would be no more carnivores or omnivores and essentially the world would be ruined. Basically PETAs goal is to ruin life on earth...


----------



## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

PETA could never accomplish their true goal, all of us pet owners and animal lovers would take them down first. I know no one is touching my pets without going through a one hell of a fight to get to them and they would be lucky to escape such a fight with all their limbs firmly in place. My pets are my babies since I can't have real kids therefore I protect my pets as if they were my children because to me that is what they are. They are my furry, scaly, stinky babies and I love them too much.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

They unfortunately get a lot of financial backing and it is possible for them to introduce legislation banning this or that. Look at the huge fight carriage horse drivers in New York are having against animal right activists. 

It is very simple for organisations like PETA to drum up support by showing advertisements with pictures of sad looking dogs or pigs in factory farms. It's far too easy to fall for their ploy if you are not an animal person or someone with background knowledge on PETA, and to open up your wallet and support their 'cause'. 

These organisations often have friends in high places, and lots of money to back them up. So many people I talk to (animal lovers included) do not understand PETA's true intentions. While I am all for animal welfare, I do not believe animals need to be given *rights. *As far as I am concerned, animals such as dogs and cats have been domesticated for thousands and thousands of years now. How is domesticity not a natural part of life for them then? Dogs are as far removed from wolves as cats are from lions. You cannot compare the two. They do not know what 'freedom' they are missing because they have never been free. It is much more advantageous to a cat or a dog to live alongside humans than it is to live out in the wild. 

My fish will never know what it is to be hungry, to have to live through weeks or months of declining water quality, to have to face the daily threat of predation. I have a pair of wild-caught bettas and they spawn constantly, even now at two or so years old. I have never seen any sign from them that life in captivity is awful. I recently got several wild-caught species from Indonesia and they have all settled in beautifully, and are already much bigger and healthier looking than when I first got them. 

I find it disgusting that organisations such as PETA and HSUS are still out their preying on people's emotions. Even worse, is that people are still falling for their lies even now with the advent of the internet and so much information at their fingertips.


----------



## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

The reason PeTA is nuts is because they would happily see every pet animal starve to death this month if it meant no one could ever own a "suffering" pet again. But they're not alone in this backwards thinking. It's the same concept as bombing for peace.

And when it comes to rights for animals, I actually would support rights for other primates, but that's it. General animal welfare laws are good and necessary for everything else.


----------



## Martinismommy (Dec 2, 2010)

PETA needs to come to my house and see how Betta fish are cared for properly...I just might make that invitation to them.....


----------



## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I would rather come to your house Karen! I'll have more fun than those freaks will there!


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> It is very simple for organisations like PETA to drum up support by showing advertisements with pictures of sad looking dogs or pigs in factory farms


i've actually read before that a lot of the animals in those commercials aren't even abused...they're everyday dogs, cats etc that have been done up with makeup and photographed on a set, just like common hollywood fakery.


----------



## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

Their only ammunition toward animal cruelty is when owners of animals do things abusive to their pets, such as dog fights. Or slaughter houses. They don't consider that not every pet owner is like this. There are farms that don't slaughter their stock. There are everyday people that own dogs who clean and groom their dog daily. If it were up to PETA, we'd all be petless and vegeterians.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

PETA also wants to abolish groups like Ducks unlimited,Quail unlimited,National wild turkey federation and hundreds of other groups backed by conservationist. Groups who have done more than anyone to preserve our natural resources. PETA is a joke and I'm glad to see more and more people realizing this.


----------



## Frazzle (Apr 10, 2012)

PETA is just annoying... They're like west boro baptist church for animals


----------



## BettaKat1962 (Sep 9, 2012)

Im all for the humane treatment of animals but yeah, thats taking it waaay too far. The ones they need to go after are the ones that would actually by them for fighting..smh.


----------



## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

How much you want to bet they are hypocrites and eat meat or have pets?


----------



## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

It's PETA! They got an industrial size freezer in their corporate office to kill excess animals!


----------



## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

xShainax said:


> How much you want to bet they are hypocrites and eat meat or have pets?


 
I'll bet you at least 35% percent live a lifestyle where they do both of these things.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

PETA thinks we all abuse pets. The dumb thing about them is they eat fruits and vegetables which are healthy along with meat. But fruits and vegetables are grown off bones and feces of animals. Things like slaughtered animals and fish are turned into fish food. It also seems common for PETA supporters to feed there cat vegan. As carnivores they die quickly they also harass children like at Disney throwing paint at children you wear mouse ears or your mommy kills animals or protesting naked or with disturbing images to children. They are recognized terrorist have tortured to make there torment videos they give money to the ALF and ELF who blow stuff up steal animals. The fox skinning video was staged the person in it said it is dangerous to you and ruins the skin.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

i would rather support the ALF/ELF who actually take action to stop animal testing and environmental destruction, rather than just whining on commercials about animals that are being "abused" by being given a good, safe home rather than having to fend for their lives.

there's a big difference between a "terrorist" and a revolutionary, and sometimes a true revolution demands acts of terror.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

homegrown terror said:


> i would rather support the ALF/ELF who actually take action to stop animal testing and environmental destruction, rather than just whining on commercials about animals that are being "abused" by being given a good, safe home rather than having to fend for their lives.
> 
> there's a big difference between a "terrorist" and a revolutionary, and sometimes a true revolution demands acts of terror.


The ALF/ELF blows stuff up/ lights stuff on fire. I support animal conservation/welfare animal rights utter stupidity. PETA gives money to them. PETA does do something throwing paint on kids wearing mickey mouse ears leather on old people standing nude in front of toddlers/ animals being slaughtered overgeneralizing. They own PCM every study they do says vegetation is healthy which is wrong. All autistics hate PETA they say meat and milk cause it. A baby fed a vegetation diet has a lower IQ. They say most conditions are caused by meat and milk they mock religions fake videos give death threats.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

homegrown terror said:


> i would rather support the ALF/ELF who actually take action to stop animal testing and environmental destruction, rather than just whining on commercials about animals that are being "abused" by being given a good, safe home rather than having to fend for their lives.
> 
> there's a big difference between a "terrorist" and a revolutionary, and sometimes a true revolution demands acts of terror.


Until you or someone you know or love is harmed or involved in one of these acts of terror.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Until you or someone you know or love is harmed or involved in one of these acts of terror.


Good point they both hurt innocent people but one blows stuff up the other scars/hurts toddlers.


----------



## Turtle4353 (Jul 27, 2012)

Lol betta fish. Com united against PETA! Go fish lovers!!


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

We should start an anti PETA petition. But we have to help the environment be careful not to support companies that destroy the environment as fish lovers we need to help the species in captivity and wild.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Until you or someone you know or love is harmed or involved in one of these acts of terror.


if someone you care about was hurt as an innocent bystander in such an act, i'm very sorry. that said, if they were actively involved in the kind of evils such groups act against, i'm not so sure. do you really think a human life is worth all the animal lives that are destroyed every day making sure our makeup and deodorant are top notch? especially considering that we now have the technology necessary to grow actual human tissue to test on, thereby making animal testing a relic that must be swept away with the last century. the plain fact of the matter is that it's a lot cheaper for cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies to test on a mouse that cost them pennies than to use human tissue that costs more. and do the pass the savings on to you? no, they line their already bursting pockets with more cash.

i need to stop now, i'm about to turn my semi-relevant animal rights rant into a socialist/anarcho-syndicalist rant, and i'm already on plenty of forums more suited for such pursuits. in short, companies that perform animal testing are an outdated evil, and if violence is what it takes to tear them down, then that's what it takes.

also, what's so wrong with protesting nude, provided it's not done in an obscene manner? sure there are plenty of things DONE with a human body that a kid doesn't need to see, but what is so offensive about it in general?


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

homegrown terror said:


> if someone you care about was hurt as an innocent bystander in such an act, i'm very sorry. that said, if they were actively involved in the kind of evils such groups act against, i'm not so sure. do you really think a human life is worth all the animal lives that are destroyed every day making sure our makeup and deodorant are top notch? especially considering that we now have the technology necessary to grow actual human tissue to test on, thereby making animal testing a relic that must be swept away with the last century. the plain fact of the matter is that it's a lot cheaper for cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies to test on a mouse that cost them pennies than to use human tissue that costs more. and do the pass the savings on to you? no, they line their already bursting pockets with more cash.
> 
> i need to stop now, i'm about to turn my semi-relevant animal rights rant into a socialist/anarcho-syndicalist rant, and i'm already on plenty of forums more suited for such pursuits. in short, companies that perform animal testing are an outdated evil, and if violence is what it takes to tear them down, then that's what it takes.
> 
> also, what's so wrong with protesting nude, provided it's not done in an obscene manner? sure there are plenty of things DONE with a human body that a kid doesn't need to see, but what is so offensive about it in general?


They throw paint on old people and toddlers and show violent pics and naked women to young children they mock religion and the sick like the "Got Autism" sign in the new jersey which has the most autistics. They say it is healthier for people to drink beer even children than milk. I am against cosmetic testing. Without animal experimentation my grandmother would be DEAD. She is in a wheelchair and diabetic.Human tissue cultures can not mimic the whole immune response. Rats , Dogs rabbits re similar enough that if it works on them it almost always works on us. Almost all medicines today were tested on animals. They say all animal keepers/ meat eaters are bad.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

That is why as a society that has advanced beyond lynch mobs and vigilantes, we have a Government and court system in place. If you look at countries where people with a cause choose to take matters in their own hands, they are not very nice places to live at all. 

I took this from Wikipedia:



> In June 2006, the ALF claimed responsibility for a firebomb attack on University of California, Los Angeles researcher Lynn Fairbanks, after a firebomb was placed on the doorstep of a house occupied by her 70 year-old tenant


So this poor 70 year-old tenant could have possibly been blown to pieces of maimed because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to put a firebomb on someone's doorstep? 

Then where does it stop? Once animal testing is abolished where then do these animal right activists turn their attentions to? What of the farmer who treats his livestock with kindness and respect in the time they are under his care? Is he to be targeted because the end game is slaughter? 

As an animal lover I abhor animal testing. But using violence as a means of protest is something I would not condone. It becomes then a slippery slope as to whether the cause justifies the means.


----------



## AQUALUVA (Sep 1, 2012)

I say don't worry about what PETA thinks. Sometimes they can have good arguments. Then (times like this) they try to pull things out of the air to see how far they can go. I think anyone who takes time to do all the things that we have done for our pets "kids" and we are truly careing for them should be commended. There are all types of pets all around the world and you want to try and specify no bettas. They need to get a life before they lose the few followers they have. CONTINUE TO LOVE YOUR BETTAS BECAUSE I KNOW THEY LOVE US 2!!!


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> That is why as a society that has advanced beyond lynch mobs and vigilantes, we have a Government and court system in place. If you look at countries where people with a cause choose to take matters in their own hands, they are not very nice places to live at all.


plainly put, i don't believe in government, and i do not trust or support the court system. i think a stable society can exist without a gun-waving police force to keep the little kiddies in line. just look at Freetown Christiania.



LittleBettaFish said:


> So this poor 70 year-old tenant could have possibly been blown to pieces of maimed because some idiot thought it would be a good idea to put a firebomb on someone's doorstep?


as i said before, i definitely DO NOT support any kind of violence towards innocent parties, nor do i consider the families of those who commit acts of cruelty to be complicit in their guilt. i think that targeting someone who is not only innocent, but also unable to fend for themselves is an evil as well, on par with the original evil it was hairbrainedly meant to confront.



LittleBettaFish said:


> Then where does it stop? Once animal testing is abolished where then do these animal right activists turn their attentions to? What of the farmer who treats his livestock with kindness and respect in the time they are under his care? Is he to be targeted because the end game is slaughter?


the main things to remember are boundaries and reason. i don't support ANY group unconditionally (save for my family) but i do support certain acts by many such groups. a good comparison would be the IRA: i believe they are fighting for a good cause, that Northern Ireland should be free to choose its own destiny and that the land and its people should not be forced to live under the Crown, but at the same time i will NEVER support madmen gunning down schoolchildren to make a point.



LittleBettaFish said:


> As an animal lover I abhor animal testing. But using violence as a means of protest is something I would not condone. It becomes then a slippery slope as to whether the cause justifies the means.


far be it from me to ever claim that the end justifies the means, but if you look at every major step that humanity has made, it's almost always required conflict of some kind. empires have to be torn down, it's the only way to end the suffering they inevitably bring upon mankind. while it's true that power corrupts, it's also true that most of the people out there who desire and seek out that power the hardest are already corrupt from the start.

that said, i'm bowing out of this discussion, it's getting too political, and once i start getting political my anger comes out in a bad way. to any of you out there who have had innocent friends or family hurt by the acts we've been discussing, my deepest condolences go out to you. anyone who would like to talk more in-depth about the politics and ramifications of evolution and revolution, please feel free to PM me.

-Johnny, your friendly neighborhood angry leftist.


----------



## magnum (May 7, 2012)

After reading through a few of PETA's articles, I found them to be amusingly dumb. 10 Gallons of water for one betta? Were are we going to buy this? From the pet store you told us NOT to support? 

Also, according to PETA many fish are sourced from the wild. If this was the case, why would so many people breed fish for pet stores etc? 



> Many people mistakenly believe that betta fish must be isolated...As a result, fish are being sentenced to dull, lonely lives...


This probably has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They arn't called Siamese Fighting Fish for a reason, are they?



> Please don't support the tropical-fish trade by purchasing fish. If you enjoy watching fish, consider downloading one of the many colorful and realistic fish computer screensavers available on the Web.


*facepalm* We arn't five PETA. I'm quite sure we can figure out how to look after our fish and take better care of them, than you telling us to download a screensaver that probably has 878979 viruses on it.

I would just like to clarify for everyone here, that PETA is completely and utterly stupid and deserves to be shut down so everyone that loves there pets and is left alone from being slammed by them can live, happy lives without the interferance of your made up facts, false reports and 'saving animals' scheme?

Go.And.Die.PETA.

Sorry, I might've went abit over board but this stuff makes me angry -.-


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

You know what makes me angry? Flies! I hate flies...when I see a fly I hulk out...but I don't turn green...it's more of a redish/white...not really pink...cause pink kinda makes me angry too....sometimes when I "hulk out" I dye my hair crazy colors,put a dust mask and hoodie on and spray paint things....it's how I express my anger towards the man...the man who refuses to do things about the flies.....grrrr I hate flies.


----------



## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

homegrown terror said:


> if someone you care about was hurt as an innocent bystander in such an act, i'm very sorry. that said, if they were actively involved in the kind of evils such groups act against, i'm not so sure. do you really think a human life is worth all the animal lives that are destroyed every day making sure our makeup and deodorant are top notch? especially considering that we now have the technology necessary to grow actual human tissue to test on, thereby making animal testing a relic that must be swept away with the last century. the plain fact of the matter is that it's a lot cheaper for cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies to test on a mouse that cost them pennies than to use human tissue that costs more. and do the pass the savings on to you? no, they line their already bursting pockets with more cash.
> 
> i need to stop now, i'm about to turn my semi-relevant animal rights rant into a socialist/anarcho-syndicalist rant, and i'm already on plenty of forums more suited for such pursuits. in short, companies that perform animal testing are an outdated evil, and if violence is what it takes to tear them down, then that's what it takes.
> 
> also, what's so wrong with protesting nude, provided it's not done in an obscene manner? sure there are plenty of things DONE with a human body that a kid doesn't need to see, but what is so offensive about it in general?


Just to make a note, I am in no way shape or form trying to single out or attack Homegrown Terror. He just happened to explain what most people think can replace animal testing in the most articulate way. Now, I will spend the rest of my post explaining why I think he's wrong. :lol:

I can only properly speak for pharmacuetical companies since I work in PR&D Stability lab, but in defense of cosmetics compaines, they do need a full functioning body to test their perfermes. One reason I can give based on personal experience is my asthma. Perfume companies can test on pieces of arm skin until the cows come home and not realize their perfume aggrevate my asthma. It's all well and good that it doesn't give me a rash on my arm just like it didn't give a rash on the chunk of arm skin tissue. But it would be nice if the ladies' at Macy's would ask if I can breath around perfume before they start spraying their free samples on me. It's all well and good that your perfume was tested on a patch of human skin tissue that didn't break out into a rash, but now my lungs stopped working and I have to use my emergency inhaler. :roll: 

That's why I hate when people bash animal testing of pharmacuetical drugs even more. 

For starters, we run tests on the drugs before the animals ingest it to make sure we aren't wasting our time or the lives of animals. The animals help us make sure the dose doesn't have to be huge, the overdose amount isn't small, the medicine actually does something, and the body doesn't metabolize the medicine in a way we didn't expect. That's why the most common animals used are mice, pigs, dogs, and primates. They metabolize food and medications the same way we metabolize food and medication. Very few animals are killed by animal testing because we are only testing stuff we think is safe and will work. Also, the FDA doesn't like to approve drugs that kill mice, pigs, and dogs so it's in our best intrest money wise not to leave a pile of dead animals in our wake. 

I can't speak for cosmetics or deoderant as much on this point, but when pharmacueticals says they test meds on animals, humans are one of the animals we are including on our list. I will admit the overdose test can be a bit extreme, but it is neccessary to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the difference between a cure and suicide isn't 1 extra pill. If you think animal rights groups give us hell for killing fido, image what would happen if we started a clinical trials blind and killed a few hundred humans becaues therapuetic levels of a medication is 6 pills in 24 hours, but death is caused by 8 pills in 24 hours. :shock: 

In short, pharmacuetical and cosmetics companies couldn't just test on random pieces of human tissue because the medication, make up, perfume, and deoderant affect more than one isolated part of the body. You can't say a pill is good for an entire body because an artifical stomach didn't get a hole eaten through it during testing. That pill that did wonders for the artifically grown human stomach can distroy your liver.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I agree my diabetic grandmother needs insulin. Another thing 100s of animals died to make insulin millions saved. It was tested on dogs and cats which get diabetes now because of there sacrifice a dog, cat, and human can survive. I do not believe all cosmetic tests are bad. I do not like the one were they hurt a rabbits eyes. Now that said some labs cause extreme pain and do extreme abuse not all do that. Also some farms do torture animals there are bad fish/pet keepers they need to help the pet or not have it. Every advance helping the disabled was tested on animals. I believe in a statue for animals tested on and for the humans who were tested on too.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

PETA is just stupid they hurt everyone even animals.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

Relic said:


> cause pink kinda makes me angry too....


but....you've got a pink betta?


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

homegrown terror said:


> but....you've got a pink betta?


It's salmon..


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

Relic said:


> It's salmon..


no, it's a betta. salmon are much bigger and swim in streams


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

homegrown terror said:


> no, it's a betta. salmon are much bigger and swim in streams


Noooo..those are moose..or is it mooses? Maybe meese? :dunno:


----------



## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

Relic said:


> Noooo..those are moose..or is it mooses? Maybe meese? :dunno:


xD Made my night.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I thought we were talking about PETA?


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

Relic said:


> Noooo..those are moose..or is it mooses? Maybe meese? :dunno:


no, mooses don't swim, they just kinda sink to the bottom and bloop up bubbles until the salmon rescue them and toss them back onto the shore.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I used to be against animal testing, but I don't know, I sort of got a reality check? xD Going into vet. medicine, you realize it's sort of unavoidable.


----------



## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

I think it is important to make a note between animal RIGHTS and animal WELFARE. Because RIGHTS is such a heavily loaded word, it has more meaning than most people who use it in regards to animals actually mean. RIGHTS suggests something that is legally and constitutionally protect but not just in a way that a law protects it. After all, your car is legally protected against people stealing or damaging it but it in no way has RIGHTS.

Animal WELFARE is the discussion on providing animals with kind, proper, conditions that allow them to have a life that does not depend on merely surviving. Animal WELFARE ensures proper care and treatment of animals so people cannot neglect feeding their dog any more than farmer can beat his pigs. Do these things happen? Sure. But people are fighting for an emphasis on providing proper WELFARE for these living creatures and making sure there is justice involved when their WELFARE is violated.

Animal RIGHTS sets animals on equal footing as human beings not only on a quality of life scale but also legal scale, essentially suggesting that animal and human life are completely and utterly equal always. Animal WELFARE sets up protections for animals, respecting them as living creatures but not equating them to humans.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I totally agree animal rights is stupid there are people who need help. PETA would blow up a country to save a rat.They hurt people and human rights suffering religion health.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

honestly i think religion needs to be "hurt.' whether you have one or not, you have to admit that religious "authorities" have way too much power these days, the US, and a lot of other countries, are spiraling way too fast into fundamentalist theocracies, and i'm scared my son will grow up in a world where my agnostic fiance and my being pagan will cause us to lose him into state custody.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

homegrown terror said:


> honestly i think religion needs to be "hurt.' whether you have one or not, you have to admit that religious "authorities" have way too much power these days, the US, and a lot of other countries, are spiraling way too fast into fundamentalist theocracies, and i'm scared my son will grow up in a world where my agnostic fiance and my being pagan will cause us to lose him into state custody.


I mean religion like christanity that does not involve any one except god in charge not like ones were one man represents a god and everyone does what they say. A real christian has religious tolerance. I think you are overgeneralizing. Some of my best friends are Muslim Jewish christian atheist.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I mean religion like christanity that does not involve any one except god in charge not like ones were one man represents a god and everyone does what they say. A real christian has religious tolerance. I think you are overgeneralizing. Some of my best friends are Muslim Jewish christian atheist.


i'm not talking about any individual lay-believer of ANY religion, i'm talking about the way religious "leaders" are extending their dirty little fingers into more and more facets of people's lives, and worrying about the future. especially if romney is elected, i can see roe v. wade being overturned, abortion being illegalised, crosses being put back into public school classrooms, and laws antagonising gays and lesbians that have been so recently overturned being remade, and the future looks scary as a result.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Okay I thought you meant religion. Yeah religious leaders can be pretty corrupt. But PETA said things. Like with no proof Jesus was a vegetatarion Bible says he was not. PETA said a hog died for your sins.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hmm, America sounds weird.. xD


----------



## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

America is weird, Olympia. But then again, so is Canada. I mean, LOOK at Quebec. ;p


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

In america children/people have no rights but insist they do. I am a Canadian/ american citizen. America spends the most money per student in the world and gets some of the worst scores of developed countries.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Because they're all elitists that don't know what hard work is. Look at those teen pregnancy numbers..


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yeah look at China/North Korea and America says communism doesn't work.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh, communism doesn't work either. Those countries, majority lives in poverty, people have no rights there, for real. I bet you've never been to a communist country. :lol:


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I would love to live in the country I was born in Canada.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

neither china nor north korea is a truly communist country. they are just dictatorships using communism as a "friendlier face," much the same way "Nazi" stands for "National Socialist" in german, but the only part of that which was real was the nationalist part, there was nothing socialist about the nazi party.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Everywhere is perfect as long as you don't live there, Choclate. :lol: You'd hate Canada if you were here.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I am a Canadian citizen what is so bad about it I was born in Halifax Novia scotia.


----------



## magnum (May 7, 2012)

I'd always love to live in America, but that's kind of like what Olympia said. If I lived in America, I'd probably want to live in Australia.


----------



## homegrown terror (Aug 6, 2012)

it's because anywhere in the developed world, the one-two punch of the State and the Capitalist keep human beings as slaves, no more free than an ox on a yoke. the State controls your thoughts and your movement, the Capitalist controls the food you eat, the water you drink, and the products that sustain and enrich your life. one will always bolster the other, the Capitalist provides product and money to the State, and the state provides hired muscle to keep the Capitalist's fortunes safe. the only ones who can break this hold is the Proletariat, the common man who must open his eyes one day and shout "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Haha, my mom told me that when I said I wanted to move to Norway, and it's probably true.

Last year during a protest, a bunch of innocent bystanders were arrested, locked up and not fed or given water for like, 36-48 hours.. No one even told them what would happen to them. I remember reading about an account told by someone who happened to be passing by (not even protesting) and he got arrested and that happened to him. Happens all the time at protests here, basically you are not allowed to protest.
Now we have people striking (again forget what). The company told them to stop striking, or they will fire them.
:dunno:

If you shouted that here you'd get arrested.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

This year in Los angeles 3 people were killed in 4 months for mild crimes.


----------



## magnum (May 7, 2012)

Protesting to me, is quite a waste of time. I don't see it making any great impact on anything because the Government dosn't want it to. Either way if you are living in a democracy or communist state, the Government still has the over-riding rule as to what happens.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Haha, agree. Accept your place in society and move on. :lol:


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

No one in my life will let me accept anything. In a democracy minors have no rights.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

United Nations Declaration of the Rights of the Child​

All children have the right to what follows, no matter what their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, or where they were born or who they were born to.
You have the special right to grow up and to develop physically and spiritually in a healthy and normal way, free and with dignity.
You have a right to a name and to be a member of a country.
You have a right to special care and protection and to good food, housing and medical services.
You have the right to special care if handicapped in any way.
You have the right to love and understanding, preferably from parents and family, but from the government where these cannot help.
You have the right to go to school for free, to play and to have an equal chance to develop yourself and to learn to be responsible and useful.
Your parents have special responsibilities for your education and guidance.
You have the right always to be among the first to get help.
You have the right to be protected against cruel acts or exploitation, eg you shall not be obliged to do work which hinders your development both physically and mentally.
You should not work before a minimum age and never when that would hinder your health and your moral and physical development.
You should be taught peace, understanding, tolerance and friendship among all people.
From the UN but pretty similar in most places.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Olympia said:


> United Nations Declaration of the Rights of the Child​
> 
> All children have the right to what follows, no matter what their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, or where they were born or who they were born to.
> You have the special right to grow up and to develop physically and spiritually in a healthy and normal way, free and with dignity.
> ...


If you lived my life you would know none of that is true.


----------



## magnum (May 7, 2012)

@Olympia: Yay! Finally someone understands my view. Those people that sit up in one tree for a year arn't really gaining anything. People are just going to keep cutting down tree's around you. Instead of protesting they could have been planting trees which helps ammend the situation. 

As for the whole child rights thing, minors have ALOT of rights from what they used to have. Espically within democracies. Minors have freedom of speech, religion and choices. When America first became colonized, religion and laws were pressed on children and they were forced to obey with no other questions asked. We may not have the best government but its better than most.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

magnum said:


> @Olympia: Yay! Finally someone understands my view. Those people that sit up in one tree for a year arn't really gaining anything. People are just going to keep cutting down tree's around you. Instead of protesting they could have been planting trees which helps ammend the situation.
> 
> As for the whole child rights thing, minors have ALOT of rights from what they used to have. Espically within democracies. Minors have freedom of speech, religion and choices. When America first became colonized, religion and laws were pressed on children and they were forced to obey with no other questions asked. We may not have the best government but its better than most.


My parents/School do not no choices and freedom.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> My parents/School do not no choices and freedom.


You think it's bad now? Wait until you enter the real world and start paying taxes.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Relic said:


> You think it's bad now? Wait until you enter the real world and start paying taxes.


I do pay taxes sale taxes. But let us get back to anti-PETA.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I do pay taxes sale taxes.


That's cool...I pay sales tax too...I also pay taxes on property,utilities{water and electric},fuel,my vehicle,my child's education...heck..we just got a new sports stadium in town that I was forced to pay taxes for and what ever else the government decides I need to help pay for....The government took almost $600 from my paycheck last week. Here in a few months I'll have to pay a few thousand dollars in taxes because the government doesn't think it's fair that I make more money than my neighbor.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> But let us get back to anti-PETA.


Ok...well...PETA sucks...I choose not to join their group. The awesomeness of a semi-free country is they have the right to express their opinion and to act the way they wish. And I have to right to condone or ignore their thoughts and actions. If people would just mind their own business, this country would be a lot better off.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Relic said:


> That's cool...I pay sales tax too...I also pay taxes on property,utilities{water and electric},fuel,my vehicle,my child's education...heck..we just got a new sports stadium in town that I was forced to pay taxes for and what ever else the government decides I need to help pay for....The government took almost $600 from my paycheck last week. Here in a few months I'll have to pay a few thousand dollars in taxes because the government doesn't think it's fair that I make more money than my neighbor.


I totally agree. Getting a high quality fish usually from a foreign country it costs a fortune shipping and all.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I am so confused right now.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I totally agree. Getting a high quality fish usually from a foreign country it costs a fortune shipping and all.


Oh the beauty of a free market!


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Relic said:


> Ok...well...PETA sucks...I choose not to join their group. The awesomeness of a semi-free country is they have the right to express their opinion and to act the way they wish. And I have to right to condone or ignore their thoughts and actions. If people would just mind their own business, this country would be a lot better off.


They blow stuff up fund terrorist most of there methods are aimed at children. There protests are violent. They say all people with diseases that need medicine except there vice president deserve to die.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

Olympia said:


> I am so confused right now.


I spend most of the day in confusion...it's really not that bad.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Relic said:


> Oh the beauty of a free market!


Exactly big business controls the market.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> They blow stuff up fund terrorist most of there methods are aimed at children. There protests are violent. They say all people with diseases that need medicine except there vice president deserve to die.


And if people would just ignore them, they would go away. The only other option would be to fight fire with fire and no one wants that.


----------



## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Exactly big business controls the market.


They think they do. The consumer controls the market...it's just to bad that the average consumer is lazy and is willing to pay for convenience.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Relic said:


> They think they do. The consumer controls the market...it's just to bad that the average consumer is lazy and is willing to pay for convenience.


They make it almost impossible look at power companies. Pet stores make it were to get an exotic pet/easy to care for pet you have to pay outrageous costs.


----------



## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

ChoclateBetta said:


> They make it almost impossible look at power companies. Pet stores make it were to get an exotic pet/easy to care for pet you have to pay outrageous costs.


How so?

Fomr my perspective pet stores have been ruining it for people who want to own and care for exotic animals properly by getting the cheapest animals to sell at the lowest prices. This usually leads to poor breeding habbits to pump out cheap affordable animals. Whether the animal be fish, rat, mouse, or even crickets to feed to larger animals. 

I think pet stores are so focused on making the price of their animals decrease that they support poor breeding. They also give groups like PETA ammunition because the care of they pets is so sub par it does make pet ownership look cruel. 

I have yet to see a pet store sell a pet for more than a responsible breeder. So, I don't see what you mean by outrageous prices (not to say responsible breeders have outrageous prices XD). Maybe it's a difference in where we live or something, but my experience leads me to believe the opposite is true. :-?


----------

