# What other fish should I add?



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Hopefully, I will soon be getting a larger tank and will be able to redo my 16 gallon. It has a footprint of 14.5 inches by 14.5 inches, and is 18 inches high. It has filtration for 45 gallons (a Fluval U1 and a Fluval U2). 

This dream will probably change/evolve before I get to it, but I've liked this idea for a while and just keep coming back to it. It's very different from anything I've done before. 

Livestock: 
- 10 Ember tetras
- 8 pygmy cories (can't decide between habrosus and pygmaeus)

Setup:
- tangled driftwood to swim through and provide shelter, hopefully as tall as the tank itself
- sand substrate covered in IAL, which will hopefully make the water nice and dark

I really want to do a biotype as mostly, I just mix in any species that work well together, regardless of origin, and give them plants from all over the world. I know I will probably give in and add a betta to this tank, too. 

Given my tank specs (and my water params of pH: 6.5-7, hardness: 2dKH (very soft), what would you recommend as a centrepiece fish? LittleBettaFish recommended a cockatoo cichlid: would be tank be ok for that? Would it eat my Embers? 

What plants, if any, should I add?

Any input welcome.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

I feel like a cichlid in a tank that small is a bad idea THOUGH i don't really know a ton about cichlids- except maybe angels lol. I do know that though some are less so than others, really all cichlids are very aggressive.

Off the top of my head i can't really think of a south american centerpiece fish that'd fit int there. i do like the idea of the big shoal of tetras and the cute lil cories just hanging out. You could scape it really nicely.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you didn't like the idea of apistogramma, have you thought about trying something like honey or croaking gourami? They don't get huge, but they do make a nice centrepiece type fish as being like bettas they are quite personable. 

Otherwise have you thought about killifish? I think you've had some in the past (though that could be another member) and something like Aphyosemion australe or Gardneri gold are cheap, beautiful and boisterous enough that they could deal with the activity of the schooling fish.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I do like the idea of apistogramma (sorry, I don't know why I assumed you suggested cockatoo apistos, that was my brain jumping from the general to the specific ). 

I have indeed had fundolopanchax gardneri gardneri in the past and I loved them. I've also been thinking of a gourami.  I would love to stick to SA fish if I can, but I'm happy to go Asian or African and deviate from the biotope if that's what would work best.  

How do you think such fish would feel about my setup?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well I had my killifish in tanks that were of a similar style and they were very happy. I am actually thinking of getting rid of all my plants and moving my killifish back into that kind of tank as I seem to have had better luck with them like that. 

I also had some licorice gourami in a biotope style set-up with peat moss and IAL and they seemed to be content with that. 

Never had apistogramma, but have read a lot of people recommend peaceful dither fish to encourage them to be out and about a bit more, and nearly every biotope tank I have seen looks identical to what you are proposing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNhsAMNgsg

This is a beautiful example of an apistogramma biotope


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## Captain Jim Dandy (Oct 30, 2011)

I think Crystal Gouramies are cute and interesting at the same time.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

Apistos are def too big

Edit: sorry was thinking of something else. but i think a cichlid is a baf idea with thos little fish


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Apistogramma don't grow very big (they are classified as a dwarf cichlid) and they are not like the cichilds you are thinking of in terms of aggression.

I've seen many apisto keepers housing their fish in tanks with so called 'dithers' (smaller schooling fish) and they do fine. I think the only danger may be that the apistos may become more aggressive if guarding eggs or fry, and that the dither fish may eat any eggs that might be laid.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Are apistos happier in pairs? I'm not really keen on breeding as I don't have a fry tank and I don't want to lose all my other fish if the parents get aggressive. I'd rather keep them singly if the fish themselves don't mind. I'd also be worried that they'd be too active for my 14.5 inch footprint, despite their size.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm not really sure as I don't have personal experience with them. A lot of people keep them in pairs because I assume they want to spawn them, but I have seen tanks where a single male has been kept. 

If you think they might be too active a gourami might be the better option since they are more sedate swimmers. 

If you don't want a single centrepiece fish, have you thought about some of the native/New Guinea pseudomugil species? Pseudomugil mellis is absolutely stunning and I kept a group of 8 individuals in a 23L (Fluval Edge with top glass removed) and they did spectacularly. Similar would be pseudomugil gertrudae and pseudomugil tenellus. These species all do well in softer water and would provide a stunning contrast (particularly mellis and getrudae) to your embers. They are also fairly peaceful and don't need a ton of space to swim around.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Ooh, I hadn't thought of natives. I looked at the gertrudaes when I first set my tank up, but didn't think they'd enjoy living with a betta.  I like the mellis a lot. Where do you purchase yours from? I'm guessing Aquagreen or Jodi-Lea?

Now I have to choose between a gourami, a betta, a native and a killi. Dah! Too difficult!  

On an unrelated note, what's your opinion on leaving water outside for a week before adding it to a tank?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My honey blue eyes I got from Coburg Aquarium and Exotic Aquarium down here in Melbourne. They crop up from time to time on the AI wholesalers list but they aren't extremely common. 

My spotted and delicate blue-eyes come from Dave. I don't know if Jodi-Lea stocks many natives. If you can get your hands on pseudomugil ivanstoffi they are absolutely stunning. I am thinking of getting some when I have everything sorted and money in my bank account. 

I don't leave my water outside. Any reasoning for doing so? I just use tapwater treated with Seachem Prime and all my wild bettas and their fry thrive.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I was reading on AquaGreen, which stocks a lot of natives (including spotted blue-eyes), that the practice of adding dechlorinator to tap water then putting it in the tank was not good. *shrug* He just recommended leaving it outside for a week. To me, that just seems risky.

If we could only get the pond in and cycled by the 24th! Sigh.  I'll be used heavily seeded media so if we can get it in, chances are I can get the fish in within two weeks, then get my tanks changed around...
The reason for my hope is that there is a super-charged auction happening here in the capital on that date and we'll be seeing a bunch of rare fish, plants and invertebrates at stupidly low prices. Be awesome if you could make it up for that.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Melbourne tapwater is generally of excellent quality. I have wild-caught species and they won't stop spawning in it!

Also if you are using a good brand of conditioner like Prime I don't think you would need to bother with leaving it out.

My honey blue eyes spawned a couple of times in their tank (think they used to eat a lot of their eggs) so I don't think they really cared. 

I saw the big auction happening up there. I went to the one in Melbourne and after having been to actual auction houses it was so bloody slow. The auction place we go to does about 100 lots in a couple of hours so it is really fast and there's no mucking around. You either bid or you don't. All the auctions I have read about that are fish-related seem to go on for hours and hours.

I'm more of a get in, get my fish, get out kind of person haha. 

It also seems like so many fishkeepers in Australia are into boring African cichlids. Would love to see an auction chock full of little oddball fish.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah. That's one problem I have found with this group: cichlids are a major thing, and pros tend to view their fish as hobbies rather than pets. Not saying that they don't have massive regard for the welfare of their fish, but there isn't really a huge bunch of affection; I like fish that are 'pets'. Luckily, we do also get some great cories, Endlers, shrimp, rare plecos, ghost knives, elephant noses etc. The auctions do tend to move quickly enough. 

LBF, if this was your tank, what would you do? Totally disregard the species I have atm.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If it was me it would be a wild betta tank haha. 

But otherwise, I would probably do a biotope style set-up for a decent sized group of pseudomugil mellis. I am really peeved I sold mine and wish I could get them back.

I would put river sand down, buy a packet of riparian leaves from Dave and put these all over the substrate. Then I would see if you couldn't find some tea tree roots at one of the fish stores in your area. If not, I would use grapevine to give it the sort of 'roots going into water' look.

Any plants would be Australian natives, but since I am not a big plant user I would probably just have it non-planted. 










Something that looks like my old mellis tank. 










This is just my opinion however. I am not a big fan of tetras or rasbora or corydoras or many of the more popular species of fish. Therefore, my tastes may not run to what you like.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

No, I love the natives. I like my embers because they are so different from the ubiquitous neons, and such a lovely flash of orange.  

Could a wild betta species be happy in my tank?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Probably it would have to be species only. Unless you went with something like albimarginata or channoides. They are fairly tolerant of a broader range of water conditions, and mine used to live with my honey blue-eyes and some clown killifish when I had them in a 3ft tank. 

Only trouble is wild bettas will spawn like crazy if you get their tank right. My burdigala pair have fry swimming everywhere and seem to spawn as soon as the last lot of fry leave the nest. So if you don't want to have to deal with fry you may need a same sex group. 

This is my adorable albimarginata male having a show-down with a plakat male when I used to own them. 










Who wouldn't find that face endearing?


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