# How long does it take for betta to drown?



## mattdocs12345 (Oct 13, 2014)

Not that I would ever consider testing it. But just out of curiosity, how long can betta stay under water until he drowns.
I see mine coming up every 30s to 1 min. But what flaring he would stay down for minutes at a time.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

Theoretically if the tank is well oxygenated (airstone and filter) a betta might not need to surface at all, but that doesn't really happen. In a tank with no filter or airstone if he had no access to any air (just putting sedan wrap on the tank it might take a day or two for him to die, and it'd be slow and painful) but with zero air or oxygen replenishing at all, maybe half a day.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Bikeridinguckgirl14 said:


> Theoretically if the tank is well oxygenated (airstone and filter) a betta might not need to surface at all, but that doesn't really happen.


This is incredibly false. Unlike other fish who breath in oxygen from the water through their gills, bettas have a labyrinth organ which is the organ they use to breath. They cannot get oxygen from the water directly, so bettas need access to the surface to breath. That is why it is important to have a lid that has holes in it so that air can move freely. 

It might take more than a few days. For instance when bettas are shipped from Thailand they stay in sealed bags for up to a week and don't suffocate.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Actually anabantoids can use their gills normally for respiration. The Labyrinth has evolved to allow them to breathe both atmospheric air in low oxygen environments but they still do breathe normal dissolved oxygen in the water system.

In the first stages of their lives they actually do not have the labyrinth organ, it develops over the first few weeks of their lives so before then, they rely completely on the oxygen in the water.

http://www.ornamental-fishes.com/2009/12/labyrinth-fish-air-breathing-fish.html and of course http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabantoidei


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

lilnaugrim said:


> Actually anabantoids can use their gills normally for respiration. The Labyrinth has evolved to allow them to breathe both atmospheric air in low oxygen environments but they still do breathe normal dissolved oxygen in the water system.
> 
> In the first stages of their lives they actually do not have the labyrinth organ, it develops over the first few weeks of their lives so before then, they rely completely on the oxygen in the water.
> 
> http://www.ornamental-fishes.com/2009/12/labyrinth-fish-air-breathing-fish.html and of course Anabantoidei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


+1 to this.

Bettas can certainly use their gills! The labrynth organ is an adaptation to deal with low dissolved oxygen levels in the water - it is not the primary source of oxygen intake.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

It's a little more complicated; the classification for air breathing fish got tweaked a little. 

Short message: It's true that betta are fine without access to air, but other anabantoids (like gourami) will "drown" if prevented from surfacing.

The messy details: Air breathing fish were originally are split into two groups by behavior: those that go for atmospheric air only when the dissolved oxygen (DO) in the water is low (facilitative air breathers) or those that surface regardless of DO levels (obligatory air breathers). The assumption was that they had to go to the surface for additional oxygen. Anabantoids were classified as obligatory.

But then someone asked *why* were obligatory fish going to the surface. Turns out not all fish had to surface to breath. So the name "obligatory air breathers" didn't really fit anymore, and they were renamed "continuous". Continuous air breathers were then split into two groups: those that require atmospheric oxygen (obligatory air breathers) and those that don't (non-obligatory). Anabantoids fall into both groups: gourami are obligatory while betta are non-obligatory.

Betta are classified as continuous non-obligatory air breathers, meaning they go to the surface regardless of the oxygen levels in the water but they don't need to go to the surface to breath. It's not entirely clear why betta surface when they don't need the oxygen. They do go up for oxygen when DO in the water is low. But under normal conditions, they get sufficient oxygen from their gills. Some hypothesize that filling the labyrinth with air is linked to regulating buoyancy.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Thank you very much for your informative post Zhylis! I know about bettas, but I don't have much experience with the other anabantoids, so that information was very interesting


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Zhylis said:


> It's a little more complicated; the classification for air breathing fish got tweaked a little.
> 
> Short message: It's true that betta are fine without access to air, but other anabantoids (like gourami) will "drown" if prevented from surfacing.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I have to wonder why the labyrinth organ would be related to buoyancy when bettas have a swim bladder for that... I had a fish that from what I could tell had his swim bladder fail in about the last month of his life, he wasn't in any visible pain or anything but if that theory holds true he should have been able to at least be partially buoyant or balanced. 

Lil is right, bettas do not NEED access to atmospheric oxygen if the water is well aerated. It is, however, always a good idea to have a bit of room at the top of a tank just in case. One of the reasons bettas can survive in those bags is because it takes remarkably small amounts of air to allow them to breath... I remember someone comparing it to a person with a football stadium full of air to breath. 

Also, from what I know death by suffocation due to low oxygen wouldn't be painful, it would be slow and there would presumably be stress but the fish would be unconscious for at least a decent amount of time before they actually die... They would probably just drift into it.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

Still that doesn't answer the question, if a betta were put into a tank (say 3G) with no access to air and no way to replenish oxygen how long would it take? (Assuming the ammonia doesn't kill them first)


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Depends on the amount of dissolved oxygen in the tank... I have no idea of the average dissolved O2 in aquaria, plus it would vary based on the temperature and other factors. It's not like we can just guess a time... I don't know of anyone who has tested it. 

I have almost suffocated (I feel like its a more accurate term than "drown") a fish in a bag that I didn't realize I hadn't left air in. It was in there for about eight hours, and by the time I realized it was almost unconscious. The bag held about a cup of water.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

MattsBettas said:


> Thank you! I have to wonder why the labyrinth organ would be related to buoyancy when bettas have a swim bladder for that... I had a fish that from what I could tell had his swim bladder fail in about the last month of his life, he wasn't in any visible pain or anything but if that theory holds true he should have been able to at least be partially buoyant or balanced.


Now that's a good question! I don't think they meant it as a second air bladder, but more like a control valve. Regulating the buoyancy? Not sure on that one.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Bikeridinguckgirl14 said:


> Still that doesn't answer the question, if a betta were put into a tank (say 3G) with no access to air and no way to replenish oxygen how long would it take? (Assuming the ammonia doesn't kill them first)



Ah, I thought the original question was whether or not a betta could stay underwater all the time or if it needed access to the air (under normal aquarium conditions). Then we took a tangent into anabantoids. Eh, oops.

In that case, Matt's right. There's a whole lot of things to consider.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

You'd probably have to kill several fish, if not dozens, and take the average. Not an experiment I'll be doing any time soon.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

And it does depend on which Anabantoid you're looking at as well, to go off what Zhylis said. I know we're focusing on Bettas here but I just read something interesting in that Betta's are the least convoluted (folded and twisted) of the Anabandtoids whereas Snakeheads and large Gourami are the most which seems to mean that they rely much more on atmospheric air than a Betta will. And then within each family the organ is still varied so you could easily have one fish who doesn't go to the surface as often whereas another one will even if they are in the same sort of set up. So Tolak is right in that, you'd have to go through way too many fish to find out the average. I'd be interested in the number but not the experiment.


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