# The 360* WONDER betta! IDEA!



## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hello everyone!

Im was just wondering out of curiousity how full can the halfmoon betta be in degrees of course?
jUST IMAGINE HOW GREAT IT WOULD BE IF A "HALFMOON BETTA WAS A FULL MOON"? YES 360* CAUDAL!
Also Has anyone ever wondered if Some breeders are trying to make the betta tails fan a full 360 degrees? This is weird you think huh? 
It might be possible though. If proffessional breeders will start selectively breeding again And experimenting again instead of only getting the same tails and fins someone can create a 360* Caudal fin and that will need a new name too.

At least that wont only be a show betta but it might even be rare and hard to create Dont ya' think?:-D
I think if someone tried, to breed selectively then they could accomplish such an amazing tail. 

Some one that has TONS of experience and has been breeding for years.=D Or just someone who knows how to selectively breed and can be carefull because experimenting means lots of culls. -_-!

someone like Mr Vampire! i think he has the Experience to at least TRY!

*SO WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? IT WAS JUST AN IDEA AND I WAS CURIOUS! IMO WE CAN DEFINITELY ACCOPLISH IT! DO YOU?*


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## Bettacaleb (Jul 4, 2010)

Its worth a shot


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## PucknLoki (Sep 10, 2010)

what, you mean the fin covering the betta's face? *is confused by the mental image of 360 degree finnage*


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

Wouldn't that make it really hard for the betta to swim?

pucknloki, just imagine a halfmoon, but instead of it being half a circle, a full circle. like >D then >O


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

The fish would just be an extreme rosetail. Rosetail trait unfortunately goes hand in hand with an assortment of deformities--intentionally creating extreme rosetails is, in my opinion, a bad idea--verging on unethical. There is a reason the ideal show bettas are halfmoons and halfmoon plakats these days--the biggest flashiest finnage doesn't take home the prize. It has to do with balance, symmetry, color quality, and the overall health of the betta's line. Rosetails tend to come with lumpy fins, washed out color, uneven scales, and poor toplines/spinal deformities.

You should take the time to read this article on extreme rosetails: http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABRosetails.htm


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## PucknLoki (Sep 10, 2010)

Thank you nochoramet ^^


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i THINK IT BAD IDIA


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## Strigiformes (Sep 15, 2010)

In the early breading that led to the first rosetails there was inbreeding. I asume that all rosetails are descendents of inbreed fish, so if someone were to "recreate" rosetails without inbreeding they MIGHT not have the bad characteristics and then a fullmoon could be safely breed. In theory.


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

I've seen the over-halfmoons which can be fairly pretty, but I don't know if the fins could even be selectively bred to go that far. Even, so, I believe Ada is right. I think there are certain ones that are beautiful, but there are also many that look very awkward and messy.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Aww i was hoping to have this be a good idea:/ lol well now that you guys mention this it sounds kinda bad but i would like to see something very unique not nessassarily like that but something.

Also i just thought of if when i was in school 
(not paying attention to the teach's)


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

aww no. Thats just a 2x bigger tail fin. We dont want bettas to end up the same way like those fat goldfish that can hardly swim.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

haha thats funny!

Sorry it was just a image of a fat goldfish swishing its tail all around! hey at least they are cute and people take care of them


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I think it would be an amazing fish....but the bigger the tail, the bigger the swimming problem and to achieve this a LOT of DT breeding, which increase spinal deformities.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

You're welcome pucknloki  

I think if it was done right it would be a beautiful fish, but it's unnecessary. A lot of hm's have hard enough trouble with their huge fins... imagine a full moon! It would be like dragging a massive parachute behind you all the time! Those poor guys probably couldn't even manage a baffled filter.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm happy with the size of tails now. IMO going any larger than this is not a good thing. My new OHM male has such a hard time swimming with all those fins he's carrying around.... and he is is PERFECT condition.

There are SO many fish around now that have horrid fins.. people aren't taking the time to read standards and learn how to breed a GOOD fish... a better use of time would be to fix the flaws showing up now instead of trying to create even more tail types. IMO there are too many already.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Definitely agree--we need to take the time to clean up everything we've muddied to create new colors and tail types and start making fish that are legitimately healthy.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

sort of off topic but on the note about colors.. I didn't even know this but I was reading some IBC info yesterday and there are colors that are going extinct because so many people are breeding willy nilly. Colors like blue and red with no irridescence.


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, really 1fish? That's crazy.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I love a nice color combination but I'd prefer a nice red or blue, with neither showing up in the other. My advice....get some nice, single colored 100% geno (at the very least) and breed them. I mean if your going to spend $100 on breeding, what's another $30 for a nice pair?

But would this idea be possible with HMPKs???


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> But would this idea be possible with HMPKs???


Exactly this is what i mean, Everyone try to look at some positive sides of this, it doesnt have to only be of The long tailed regular halfmoons it could definitely work with plakats!

Dont you think because plakats are short finned and they have no trouble getting around their little fins or caudal.:-D

Thanks Mr Vamp:-D


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

bettalover2033 said:


> Exactly this is what i mean, Everyone try to look at some positive sides of this, it doesnt have to only be of The long tailed regular halfmoons it could definitely work with plakats!
> 
> Dont you think because plakats are short finned and they have no trouble getting around their little fins or caudal.:-D
> 
> Thanks Mr Vamp:-D


 Y'know what!! I'm spawning a DT with my HMPK female in November.....I might attempt this. Plakats having much shorter fins would make them ideal for this idea....but ONLY plakats.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

Agreed w/ the others, it might "look" nice to us (and really, it wouldn't to me :S), fish with that big of fins would have many problems. Added weight makes it harder to get to the surface, harder to lug around, increase in tail biting, ect. ect. Take the problems that HMs have and multiply it by a bit. Cute idea, but implausible and could be considered cruel to some people. 1f2f has the right idea... instead of creating more tail types and colorations, it's time to refine what we have so that we don't lose some of the colorations because there's no direction in breeding.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

CodeRed said:


> Agreed w/ the others, it might "look" nice to us (and really, it wouldn't to me :S), fish with that big of fins would have many problems. Added weight makes it harder to get to the surface, harder to lug around, increase in tail biting, ect. ect. Take the problems that HMs have and multiply it by a bit. Cute idea, but implausible and could be considered cruel to some people. 1f2f has the right idea... instead of creating more tail types and colorations, it's time to refine what we have so that we don't lose some of the colorations because there's no direction in breeding.


 1f2f is 100% right. There's over 20,000 different combinations of bettas already out there!! Though in plakat this tail would be amazing.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> 1f2f is 100% right. There's over 20,000 different combinations of bettas already out there!! Though in plakat this tail would be amazing.


I agree with MRV!

Just think of a FMPK for a sencond because if we could actually accomplish this just think of the shows and competitions and how rare they would be (at first)

People would be drooling over these amazing tail types. Wouldnt you like one?

i say FMPK because of (Full moon)


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

It would be. I'll try it but no guarentee, lots of work. PM me if you want to help out with this (if I decide to).


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## Learn To Fly (May 15, 2010)

Wow I can't imagine a fish like that. Poor Alexander my rosetail already has a hard time swimming. I look at my other fish and they glide, not him. He struggles. I think he's biting his tail because it's so heavy


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

Probably so, because I can imagine that would be very frustrating, having this big ol' thing dragging behind you, catching every slight current of the water and having to lug it around when it's bigger than your body


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yea so Mr V and i are thinking of something with this idea on HMPK's wish us luck!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Good luck if you go for it  Although I'm sure you wont be the only people that have tried to create new tail types. I imagine it would take years and several generations to get a complete 360* tail.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I saw a 270* HM on AB (forgot which breeder). IMO it doesn't look that good, poor thing. Perhaps expanding PK's spread would be more .... humane (?) instead of HM's.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Even on a PK it would make swimming hard. I honestly don't know if that is physically possible. The outer rays on each side of the caudal fin would have to touch which means you would need a LOT of webbing between the rays and probably extra rays as well. There would also have to be a curl to the caudal fin so the rays actually could touch and not be inhibited by the dorsal and anal fin.

I see a lot of deformities that will arise from attempting this. I honestly don't see how it is for the betterment of the fish in any way.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree with 1f2f... why try to create new stuff rather than improve what we've already got?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes, but with what we've got is already being improved, and even when we do try to improve what we've got, even more "unexperienced breeder" make mistakes and dont research and make even more deformities. It will be a challenge and i can admit that it will not be helping the fish, but it is an idea, also this sounds awfully selfish, but it would'nt be for the fish. And it doesnt HAVE to have its fins up and flared all the time, like normal bettas all of them can close their fins and on plakats its not very hard for swimming.


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## Learn To Fly (May 15, 2010)

Even with its fins closed it would still probably have a 180* spread. Personally I think it's rather inhumane to do this, if it's even possible.


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

Yes, I agree no offense but I don't think this is such a good idea since it will just hurt the fish.
Like others have said I think we should just focus on the bettas we have and try to improve them.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Ya I've been thinking too (in class when my teachers are blabbing yada yada yada). Would we ever be able to accomplish this. I mean that much breeding to a DT would be difficult.....really stubby bodies with swim bladder issues and would we get the dorsal to curve in the front?? Same with the anal fin.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, nothing ever happens without a little brainstorming! Even if this doesn't work out, that's ok, not every idea does, but it is always fun to think about! Thinking is good, and if you hadn't thought of the idea in the first place, the pros and cons wouldn't have been brought up! Now we know, and that helps narrow the search for the new and interesting ideas! :] Sometimes knowing the cons of one idea can help us realize the pros for something completely unrelated! Think of why things work the way they do, and then the most beautiful healthy fish can be created! :O Back to the drawing board, hmm?  

Side note: I used to think that certain HMs were full moons.. because their tails so perfectly matched the rest of their fins, it made a complete circle! XD So I thought that's what they were called!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

purplemuffin said:


> Side note: I used to think that certain HMs were full moons.. because their tails so perfectly matched the rest of their fins, it made a complete circle! XD So I thought that's what they were called!


That is how they are supposed to look.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

I am aware of that now! I wasn't at first! The first HM I saw had very tiny fins that wouldn't connect really, but now i know!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well now i see that this isnt really that much of a good idea but i dont know i will just think it over until i keep going.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I think doing this will increase a lot of deformitie issues but could produce more full HMs. But if we want better HMs just go out and get a good pair and breed the fish with the best fins.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Personally I want to use this as a goal, so I strive for the goal but don't make it....so I don't get deformities but in the attempt for it get more halfmoons. I hope you guys get that lol.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

You lost me a little i kinda get it but little bit of ??huh?? is still there.


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