# 45 Gallon Stocking



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

So after the holidays are all set and the Christmas tree is out the door (somehow, it's HUGE this year! Largest one we've ever cut lol!) I'll be setting up my 45 gallon and stock it eventually but I'm still quite torn on what I want to do! I need to stock it with mom in mind though since it will be in the living room and it's basically for her ^_^

So we have well water, here are the parameters out of the tap:
pH: 5.0-5.5 (depends on season)
dGH: 2
dKH: 1
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

I realize I'll be going through the cycle on this tank so no worries about fish being more sensitive or anything, I can handle it. I'm more just looking for some votes on stocking rather than opinions or advice, though suggestions are fine too if there is something within my reach.

So mom wants blue fish, keep that in mind.

Stocking #1
3 Discus (yes I realize they are sensitive and better kept in a 60 gallon with a group of 6)
8 Rummynose Tetra

Stocking #2
8 Boesemani Rainbowfish
1 Red Tailed Black Shark

Stocking #3
1 Blue Betta
10-15 some small schooler tetra
6 Zebra Loaches

Stocking #4 (I'd have to change my water I realize)
Cichlid Community

Or some variant of these stockings.

Mom does not want any Cardinal/Neon Tetras, nothing of the usual sort that you'd see in the big stores. No real deformed fish like bigger Rainbowfish or fish like Flowerhorns (yes I know they wouldn't fit into my tank anyway lol), she likes the streamlined fish.

Any suggestions on other blue fish that I may have forgotten?


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

Discus have always intimidated me. It's probably not as difficult as some make them out to be. The mature ones are stunning. I've seen some the size of the span of a hand. Gorgeous.

I like option two better. Partly because there's more stocking options. Although I'm not a Boesmani fan, I will admit they do look nice. If blue is what you're after, there are several other Rainbows in that color; the Turquoise and Dwarf Neon. I'm sure there are others as well.

The German Blue Ram is another option worth considering.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

[censor] page hickup lost all I just typed >.<
I'd not recommend discus in that size tank personally, all my reading says they are like angles and have hierarchy and aggression, larger group (and tank) is always better. Also unless you're going to control pH so it never changes you may loose them when it fluxes (they are insanely sensitive).

Are you set on just the one variety of rainbowfish? There are a large variety to choose from as other options.

Agree with ankakin, Ram and even Apistogramma cichlids (there are many beautiful colorful varieties) are great community dwarf cichlid options to look into if you haven't yet. Double check pH ranges, I think they can take slightly higher pH into the 6-7 (possibly even low 8) range depending on what breeder you buy them from (what water they've been conditioned to breed and grow in).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, I know about the Discus hence why I said I know they are sensitive and I know it's not ideal. I don't need a lecture on the fish themselves (not meaning this in a rude way), just wanted to know if there were other fish I could look into.

I personally like to Boesemani just because they're blue and orange, they stay smaller than some of the other Rainbows but are big enough. I like the Turquoise but they're boring according to my mom, she likes the more colorful ones.

She likes the Apistos as well, I could do those. I'd prefer to stay away from Rams for personal reasons, Apistos are easier anyway. Most of the small Cichlids (rams and most apistos) are good for low pH I know too.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Edit: well, that nixed some of the following suggestions! 

Ditto on the discus; color me intimidated by their water req's. Flipping delicate little snowflakes...

I love the rainbows option though, boseamani and/or turquoise. They color up so beautifully. 

Rams are great; either the German blues or the electric. Just to throw out some more blue fish: dwarf gourami - powder blue or neon; paradise fish; platies now come in a blue variant; the lowly guppy - any of the Moscow variants.

If you go the (African) cichlid route, check out Ps. demasoni. Love these guys! Awesome dwarf cichlid, stunning colors, and extra large attitude. Ps. acei "Msuli" is also a good non-aggressive schooling cichlid and easy to find; they'll eventually out grow a 45g though. Melanochromis johanni look gorgeous when young (electric blue!), much less so when mature (blobby muddy colors, in my opinion) and they're extra vicious little [censored]. Almost any Ps. zebra will reach the upper limit of a 45g; probably better luck going with Cynotilapia species. They're usually slightly smaller when mature.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh forgot to mention she doesn't want livebearers either lol! We had guppies when I was a kid and I think she scarred herself by having guppies haha. She also hates all Gouramis, not exactly sure why but she does :dunno: 

The only thing I'm worried about with Africans is the higher pH, that's a heck of a lot of chemicals I'd have to use to get it up to around 8.0 with my 5.0 pH, you know? Unless there is some easy way to do that?

And I did forget as well, she wants a planted tank like heavily planted. Not sure if the Africans would enjoy a real planted tank without many hides. She suggested half an half, half stone work and half plants. I know not all cichlids will leave plants be so I'd have to have hardy plants 

I do like the look of Demasonis, I feel like they're one of the very aggressive ones?


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> And I did forget as well, she wants a planted tank like heavily planted. Not sure if the Africans would enjoy a real planted tank without many hides. She suggested half an half, half stone work and half plants. I know not all cichlids will leave plants be so I'd have to have hardy plants
> 
> I do like the look of Demasonis, I feel like they're one of the very aggressive ones?


>.< Oh my. No cichlids then. Mbunas are energetic herbivores; I never found a live plant they didn't like (to eat!). Even java fern and anubias were eventually nibbled to death. Also, they're stubborn diggers and aquascapers. I had this one pair of zebras that literally moved TWENTY POUNDS OF GRAVEL in one night. He wanted to spawn in that one spot and only that spot and dammit all the gravel was IN HIS WAY! 

I'd say the demasoni I had were no more or less aggressive than the rest of the mbuna. They did hold their own against larger fish. Although tank set up and stocking does play a large role, African cichlids are pretty darn aggressive as a group. 

The pH would have to come up at least to 7; they're pretty adaptable. I'd be more worried about adding enough minerals to the water. They need really hard/high TDS water (300-600ppm for Lake Malawi) but there are commercial cichlid salt mixes.

With your water and your mom's preferences, I guess South American fish would be your best bet (for now at least). :roll:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh lol!! That's hilarious about the male, sounds like the Rainbow male Goby I once had; dug all throughout the 33 gallon all day long and finally settled between two rocks for a home and dug the sand away to make it comfortable. Too funny.

With my water, I could use SeaChem's Replenish to increase the minerals and such, is that correct? I've seen the "African" buffers and all but never paid much mind to them since our water is what it is 

Originally I really wanted Black Ruby Barbs, a lovely school of them with a Red Tailed Black Shark (dream fish, I just absolutely adore the way they look! And yes, I know their behavior isn't always "nice" lol) and maybe something else in there but I love the look of those but mom says that they're boring looking >.< So I have to find something else.

I'd be able to do a South Asian biotope though, correct? Soft water, low TDS? 
Originally originally, I was going to have a lovely group of Pearl Gouramis (1M:2-3F), my Angelfish (though she's going to stay in the 29, she's still young), and then some schooler fish like Embers or some Rasboras and then loaches as the primary bottom dwellers. But as I said mom doesn't like Gouramis >.< I got to check if she likes the Pearls or not since they are more colorful than the "average" Gourami at least.

Just putting the list of what she DOESN'T want for conveniece so it's all in one post. Sorry about being all scatterbrained when I made the post >.<
Livebearers of any sort
Gouramis of any kind
Deformed looking fish (large rainbows, types like a Flowerhorn)
"Bland" looking fish meaning one color or not interesting pattern
Paradisefish (they look too much like Gouramis :roll
Cardinal Tetra
Neon Tetra

lol I know it doesn't leave much given my water parameters and her preferences...sigh oh well.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Discus are INSANELY expensive. At least around here.

I have to put my opinion in for german blue rams even though I know you have problems with them. Mine have been very easy to keep and are absolutely beautiful little fish. They are extremely peaceful and much friendlier than my apistos - who are also very pretty but spend much more time hanging out hiding in the plants than the rams who are all over the tank all the time. 

Otherwise, I vote for the bosemani.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I know. We have Juvies around here ranging from 10-20 bucks each other and they're from good stores at least. Occasionally our PetCo stocks them lol, I trust that one store though with them but probably wouldn't buy them there anyway.

Poo, I had something written but then I actually looked up the Boesemani requirements and apparently they don't do well in soft water  Rams love my water, what I was wondering if I could do like 8 Boesemani and then a pair of Electric Blues and a pair of Germans.

Oh and my tank dimensions:
1'wide x 2'tall x 3'long

I realize that if I were to do two pairs of rams I'd need a poop ton of hiding places and spawning places. I plan for this to have plenty of hidey holes in the substrate and on top of the substrate, it will be like rolling hills lol and lots of plant cover too. I'm good with plants.

If I were to buffer my water with crushed coral, do you think I could get away with the Boesemani if I could get it to like...6.5?

Also, would a single Red Rainbowfish school with the Boesemani I wonder? I realize they are different species but Rainbowfish seem to school with whatever? Any experienced people here?


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I have a pair of rams and a pair of apistos in the same tank, and they get along great except for when the (dumb) male apisto goes into the rams' cave - but it's a 120 gallon. 

I haven't ever kept rainbowfish, but I was under the impression that they are extremely adaptable to different water conditions.


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## HomerJay (Dec 10, 2014)

I would bring your mom to the store and get her to show you what she would consider putting in the tank and then go from there. I would think it would be easier for you to narrow down from what she saw that she liked.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks for the info givemethatfish!

@Homer, I was showing her pictures of fish online last night actually. The thing about our stores is they mostly stock Gouramis, Livebears, and fish that would grow too big for the tank lol. So it's not the best selections >.< I will do that eventually though whenever we get some time...which is probably after the holidays, way too busy at the moment!


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## HomerJay (Dec 10, 2014)

Gotcha. There are so many options if you can find a good fish store within a reasonable distance. You can probably make anything, besides the most delicate fish work. I think anything captive bred is going to very adaptable as long as things stay stable.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, we do have a really good store but again, with her preferences :roll:

So, we're all striking Africans then? Basically nothing in really hard/high TDS water? Aiming for 7.0 preferable water and lower?

I always drip acclimate my fish, depending on the type it ranges from half an hour to 2 hours also depending on how far away I got them from of course. So that's fine in the way of more sensitive fishes.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

okay, so new stocking:

1 Giant Blue Betta (she loves the personalities, I'll get a King from PetCo unless I happy across a fairly inexpensive Giant on AquaBid....XD chances of that happening are extremely slim)
Either two pairs of Electric Blue Rams or
1 Pair Electrics
1 Pair Germans

and then some schooling fish. I think if I get the big fish to be blue then maybe I can compromise and get something yellow/orange that I like for the schooling fish since I'm actually the one who's in the living room most haha. 
I've always loved Rummynose Tetra but never kept them. My options for schoolers in this setup would be:
Rummynose Tetra (NOT Asians)
Ember Tetras (already have them in my 29 so I do want something slightly different)
Glowlight Tetras
Pencilfish (already have one who lost her school, she's in my 20 at the moment with my guppies and lonely female CPD)

I'm sure there are others I wouldn't mind, I'm just so scatterbrained at the moment, I apologize!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I LoVe rummynose tetras. They school so nicely. They're really fun to watch. 

There's also German golden rams


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, that's what I like about them; fantastic water quality indicators, school awesomely, and love their little red noses and striped tails! 

I'm not too fond of Golden fish, I prefer the Germans or Electric Blues though they are more expensive; my lFS sells them around 12.99 which is way better than the 24 I usually find them at >.<


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Ooooo king betta! Can't wait to see the final tank! =)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, mom loved the idea of the German's and the Electric Rams, it will be a while before I can get them after the tank matures 

And thankfully she also said that all the fish can't be blue! haha she said it'd be boring so we're probably going with some Ember Tetras since she likes to red and likes the look of them in my tank. She liked the Rummynose too. I'll probably end up with a good sized school of Embers and a smaller one of Glowlights since I just like them haha. Though...idk, I really do want those Rummynose :-/ Maybe I can upgrade the Embers I have now and put Rummynose in my 29? Hmmm, I could do that. There's enough lateral space, nothing like the 45 but it's decent at least. *Shrug*, we'll see!!

Thanks for putting up with me everyone ^_^


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Do the rummynose! Do it! I'm getting 10 more for my tank next weekend!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, in which tank though? I know in the 45 I could have more of them but they generally stay towards the bottom and I don't want to stress out the Rams since they're primarily bottom dwellers too. At least with the Embers they don't do as much tight schooling and stay more towards the middle, or at least mine do.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Hm. My rummynose are everywhere. Then again so are the embers. I don't think my fish know the rules though. Although yeah my embers don't really school that wonderfully, so I think a few tiny embers swimming around in their territory wouldn't seem as threatening as a million rummynose tetras swimming at them en masse.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. My Embers do school but that's because I have an angelfish in there lol, though Stratus is a terrible angelfish; she doesn't get that she's supposed to be sort of mean to other fish and instead gets picked on by the Sparkling Gouramis :roll: I have strange fish too haha. 

So I think I can do something like 35 Ember Tetras in the big tank lol. I tend to overstock my tanks but I usually have dirted tanks with the full ecosystem going so I am fairly good at finding balances between fish, plants, and water changes :-D

EDIT: Oh! I forgot I'll probably upgrade my little Calico Bristlenose as well to the 45 and probably Bentley the deformed juvie Panda Garra as well.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

35 ember tetras would be an amazing sight!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes. I'm addicted to large schools of tiny fish!! I'll definitely have a thread to keep track of the progress, I'll start whenever we actually get the tank back upstairs >.< it's in the basement at the moment lol. I think I actually need a new stand, I don't trust the stand it has right now because it's wobbly....45 gallons on our brandy-new fake hardwood floor....yeah, not good. Mom would kill me, bring me back to life and then kill me again lol. 

Lol, this is what AQ advisor is telling me I'm stocked at haha...I have so much room!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Does AQ advisor also freak out over the combination of a betta or a ram and anything else? It gets rather testy about that. 

It told me my peaock gudgeons were too aggressive to live with peppered cories. What? Calm down there, AQ advisor. 

What if you did 20 ember tetras and 20 kubotai rasboras? Bright orange + bright green would be a cool sight!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, yeah, I was also told that Rams were too aggressive to live with Embers too XD Sure, during breeding they get a little testy but they usually don't go as far as killing unless the Ember is stupid enough to get up all in their face and don't go away; but that's justified haha

And yeah, Betta's apparently can't live with anything else according to them lol! Or it says further research is required. Love that they do put the warning at least so maybe those who don't quite know as much will look into it :dunno: I usually ignore the warnings and notes to be perfectly honest.

Hmmm maybe! We don't have those here locally but I don't mind buying online at all if the price is right. 

If I could find more I'd totally get more Gelius barbs instead, beautiful little fish! And they're just a tad bit bigger than the Embers but so peaceful too. They love to munch on all the little microorganisms all day! But they look green-ish yellow with black spots. I have 8 of them at the moment with my 18 Embers ^_^

EDIT: I could also do something like 30 Embers and 10-12 Pencilfish, I have a Golden right now that would love her school to happen again since her other school-mates died over some time. Those are very easy to get and they wouldn't bother anyone and stay mostly at the top of the tank so the schools would be separated enough. I just personally like the look of one gigantic school with a centerpiece fish or two but with that amount of Embers, it shouldn't be an issue for me if there was something hanging out at top or on bottom since they're mostly mid-dwellers. ya'know?


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