# The Goldfish Thread =D



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've noticed some people have been getting goldfish, and I thought... hey.. why don't we come together, and teach people about goldfish? There are useful facts employees "miss", or really do not know and this can hinder a new goldfish owner, and even cause frustration and sadness along the road (if an employee says they can live in a gallon bowl no filter).

So, here, I'll start it off, and we'll go from there 

1. Goldfish are notoriously messy. They are so messy ammonia spikes really fast - especially in small bowls or tanks. So it is important to have goldfish in larger tanks. There is some controversy, however, for size. Some say 20, some say 30-50 or higher! I personally say a 30-40 is a safe start for a single goldfish. Remember - the bigger the better!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Ohh I love this idea! Goldfish are some of my favorite fish to keep. I should get some new pictures of my guys. Anyone else who has pictures should post them, too! 

Here are some other facts that are commonly missed by LFS employees:

*2. Goldfish need a variety in their diet. *
While the pellets we get at the store may seem like enough; they can often cause problems for our golden fishies. Goldfish are omnivorous and need both plants and protein in their diets. Young goldfish need diets with around 57% protein, and older goldies need diets with 43% protein. All goldies need greens. Spinach and red lettuce are two very good greens to offer. Place them in a lettuce clip and watch your goldfish go to town on them. Slices of orange can also be placed in the lettuce clip to add more variety and vitamin C to a goldfish diet. 

*3. Goldfish can live with plants! *
Most people will tell you goldfish eat all plants. This isn't true. When offered enough greens in their diet, goldfish often mostly ignore other plants. Mind you, some goldfish will still nibble on your plants, so never try expensive, delicate plants with goldfish. Some good plants to try are hornwort, anarcharis, duckweed, water sprite (although my guys love to nibble on it), anubias, java fern, and moss balls. Your goldies may eat some and not others. The key is to find what works for you and your goldfish.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

*4. Goldfish like colder waters.* Unlike our famed bettas of this site lol goldfish are cold water fish. If you had a goldfish at the same temperature as what bettas love, they can get sick, and some like the black moore will lose their color. Most will stand 65-75 comfortabley, even though they can tolerate a wide range of temperatures. Remember: a happy goldfish is a healthy goldfish!! :lol:


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

My daughter's goldfish ate all the duck weed she put in their 50 gal tank. Maybe they didn't get enough greens in their regular food?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think that could have been. you can also feed them boiled zuchinni  boil, then let cool. =D


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I wish my goldfish would eat their vegetables. I went to town making them a gel food with lots of greens in it and they wouldn't touch it. Ate a mouthful and spat it right back out. 

Bought some elodea and duckweed for them to munch on. The elodea overtook the tank and the duckweed got sucked into the filter. 

Nowadays, mine just get bloodworms, blackworms, brine shrimp, NLS flakes/pellets and these Omega One veggie flakes. 

I've tried lettuce and zucchini and they won't touch it. Nor do they touch any plant I put in there. 
*
#5 Don't mix common/comet type goldfish with fancies* - Common and comet goldfish are much faster and will often out-compete the slower fancies for food. Also, while commons can do quite well in low temperatures, fancy goldfish do not. This is why they are often not good candidates for ponds in places where it gets very cold in winter.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

tpocicat said:


> My daughter's goldfish ate all the duck weed she put in their 50 gal tank. Maybe they didn't get enough greens in their regular food?


Lol. Mine do the same thing. Every once in a while a piece or two escapes them and starts to take hold, but they find it sooner or later. Little piggies...

LittleBettaFish, I had trouble getting mine to eat greens, too. I had to fast them for about 3 days before I gave it to them. They will eat it, you just need to give them time. Mine will always uproot my anarcharis when I've been gone for a few days. The only thing they've never touched is the hornwort.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Hm... Do veggies make ammonia in the water if uneaten? I have to feed my Goldie only a few flakes every other night to keep the ammonia in his too small tank down....


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Mine went a week or two without touching anything remotely green-looking. I tried blanched lettuce, spinach and cucumber and of course my homemade gel food. Plus there was a big chunk of elodea floating around in their tank. They hand-feed, so I tried to get them to come up and take it off me, but the only thing they really ate were peas. 

However, my dad's goldfish is around 8 or 9 years old now and has never had anything but commercial food its whole life. 

The three of them do look healthy and happy, though my dad's one is very stunted (about half the size he should be), and I'm looking into a more vegetable-based food for them as I worry they get too much protein in their diet. I do powerfeed my blackworms lettuce and cucumber, so I'm not sure how much of those nutrients get passed onto my goldfish.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Betta Miah, what you can do is use a piece of lettuce. if he won't eat it after I'd say 5 hourS, remove. This avoids it from decaying and fouling up the water. same goes with Zuchinni, cucumber, etc.  What you can also do is try "hand feeding" your goldie. This is what I do with my messy eaters (bettas) to make sure nothing sinks.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

The lettuce in my blackworm tub goes funky after around 24 hours. The cucumber tends to last a touch longer but I wouldn't leave any uneaten veggies in for longer than that.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

How would I teach Beau to do that? 

And yes, I give him one flake at a time and if he misses it or doesn't see it I will suck it up with a turkey baster and put it right infront of his face.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That works too  I've fed koi by hand. Goldfish are pretty smart - they get the hang of it. let your goldie get used to your hand near him when he eats. after, have a piece stuck to your fingers. he'll eventually take it.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

It doesn't matter too much if a few flakes or pellets go into the substrate. Goldfish enjoy foraging at the bottom. Mine spend all day looking for more food.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

True, just Miah has a small tank. Hopefully you can be allowed to upgrade.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Mine went a week or two without touching anything remotely green-looking. I tried blanched lettuce, spinach and cucumber and of course my homemade gel food. Plus there was a big chunk of elodea floating around in their tank. They hand-feed, so I tried to get them to come up and take it off me, but the only thing they really ate were peas.
> 
> However, my dad's goldfish is around 8 or 9 years old now and has never had anything but commercial food its whole life.
> 
> The three of them do look healthy and happy, though my dad's one is very stunted (about half the size he should be), and I'm looking into a more vegetable-based food for them as I worry they get too much protein in their diet. I do powerfeed my blackworms lettuce and cucumber, so I'm not sure how much of those nutrients get passed onto my goldfish.


You're right to try to cut down on their protein. Too much at an older age can lead to fatty livers. If peas are the only greens your guys will eat, then I'd continue to do just that. Goldfish are omnivorous, and even though the commercial foods we give them have wheat in it, they can't digest that. It all goes to poop. Some goldfish can live on commercial feed their whole lives and it won't cause digestive problems. Others can't. Your dad was lucky like that. The commercial feed probably did contribute a bit to the stunting, tho. 



BettaMiah said:


> How would I teach Beau to do that?


I taught my guys to eat from my hand by making hand-food the only food available. I just stopped dropping pellets in and only hand fed them. It took one of my guys about a week to catch on, but now they are both nibbling at my fingers whenever I put them in the tank.

*#6 Thriving vs Surviving*
I want to take a minute and talk about the notion of surviving versus thriving. Goldfish are pretty hardy and can survive in many conditions, especially the common-types. They can take low temps, they can take high temps. They can live off the crappiest commercial food ever and in dirty, cramped spaces. This is one of the reasons that goldfish are found on every continent. 

But that is not thriving. Goldfish that are kept under "survive" conditions won't live as long, won't have as vibrant colors or personality, and may be prone to getting sick often. Thriving goldfish get large (6+ inches) have beautiful colors and perfect finnage, and show a lot more intelligence than most people think. Orandas get huge wens, and vieltails really look like they are wearing a wedding dress. When we allow goldfish to thrive, they will often live upwards of 15 years. 

You will hear many stories about oh my so-and-so kept a common goldfish in a 10 gal tank and it lived for 6 years. Yes, that fish survived, but I can guarantee it did not thrive. I'll get off my soapbox now. (Please don't think this was directed at you, LittleBettaFish.)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: nicely said, however. And it is true...as..I did...know someone who had a goldie for idk 5-6 years in A BOWL  I was surprised it lasted that long. of course he added "yeah well it was always sick." -.-
I couldn't imagine why. poor thing didn't get cleaned enough, the best foods, or enough space to grow


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> :lol: nicely said, however. And it is true...as..I did...know someone who had a goldie for idk 5-6 years in A BOWL  I was surprised it lasted that long. of course he added "yeah well it was always sick." -.-
> I couldn't imagine why. poor thing didn't get cleaned enough, the best foods, or enough space to grow


You hit the nail on the head. Cases like this are why people continue to believe that goldfish don't require any care at all. Of course, the aquarium industry doesn't help either. Next time you go into a pet store, look at the fish that are pictured on the smallest tanks. Many are goldfish. I found these two atrocities just in a quick browse through the petsmart site: Marina Goldfish 2.65 Gallon Aquarium Starter Kit  and Baby biOrb 4 Gallon Silver Aquarium Starter Kit


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I know my tank now is too small for goldfish (think it's 45-50 gallons), but unfortunately without reinforcement our floor can't hold the weight of my 110 gallon tank, which weighs 100 kilograms when empty. 

Fortunately, my mum has agreed to installing a 1000 litre pond this year so the three of them will be moving out into that and enjoying life as 'wild' goldfish haha. 

I will never get why people try and cram as many fish into a tank as they can. Not only is it cruel, but it looks bloody ugly as well. It's like there's this disconnect between the small goldfish sold in pet stores and the full-grown goldfish you see in ponds and large aquariums. So many people do not realise IT IS THE SAME FISH! It drives me insane.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I had that 2.65 one :lol: for bettas. Because I thought "hey. 10.00 on sale. totally." and plus the filter was adjustable  Any "goldfish" things I actually have.. like the "goldfish 1 gallon starter kit: comes with plant and gravel" the gravel was basically beads, the plant I use in the sorority tank xD the container is used as quarantine.

A 45-50 gallon is fine for one goldfish, with proper filtration.
But, I've seen some pretty good people care for goldies in smaller tanks, and aim towards bigger ones in the future - all while keepin' their pets alive, and well, and end up getting bigger tanks (or, like you mentioned, ponds)

<<<< personally wants a black moore >.> but I dont have a tank that'll fit one. nor the space. all space to bettas.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Seeing how fast my Shubunkin can move (I think it's around 6 inches long) when startled, I would ideally prefer a bigger tank. He usually smashes into the walls and decor at a pretty fast clap if I accidentally surprise him. 

I think for comets, commons and shubunkins, they really do best in long tanks of at least 100 gallons or a pond. They are just so big and fast-moving, anything else seems rather cramped.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Basically :lol: also depends on the type too.. moores, can be in 40+, however I did come across a biiiiiiig one o_o I've also met an Oscar who defeated my dog.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I know my tank now is too small for goldfish (think it's 45-50 gallons), but unfortunately without reinforcement our floor can't hold the weight of my 110 gallon tank, which weighs 100 kilograms when empty.
> 
> Fortunately, my mum has agreed to installing a 1000 litre pond this year so the three of them will be moving out into that and enjoying life as 'wild' goldfish haha.
> 
> I will never get why people try and cram as many fish into a tank as they can. Not only is it cruel, but it looks bloody ugly as well. It's like there's this disconnect between the small goldfish sold in pet stores and the full-grown goldfish you see in ponds and large aquariums. So many people do not realise IT IS THE SAME FISH! It drives me insane.


Oh you are going to be in for a treat with your pond. Your fish will get huge! I've got a koi pond, and it one of my favorite things in the world! (I say as I hide my screen from my bettas, lol, not like they could read). Aquaria are beautiful but ponds are something else. I love sitting out there and watching the sun slip between the trees casting an orange glow as it falls. Getting up at sunrise (for some ungodly reason) and finding a circular spider web over the waterfall, and its bathed in dew. Ponds are so much fun!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm just worried about filters and cycling and all that fun stuff. Plus stopping three German Shepherds from deciding to take a dip on a hot day. 

But my older brother is an electrician so I suppose he can wire something up for me.

I *am* starting a planted 220 litre tub pond in my yard over the summer for a pair of Betta splendens (thought I may as well experiment). That is on top of the smaller tub I am putting out to grow up some of my wild betta fry. 

I got all excited after I found a website that sells all types of water plants. Already made a list of what I'm going to get even though my 'pond' is currently empty.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

-wished I had land to put ponds- :lol:


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

The best recommendation I can give you is have a professional pond builder or a landscaper with experience work with you. It makes the difference between a hole in the ground and a water feature. 

I have two black labs, but I've been lucky. They never got too curious about my pond. Plants around the edges probably help, too.

I'm sorry you can't have a pond, Sena. That's how I'm going to feel when I go off to grad school and live in an apartment.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I live in a 4plex :/ but hey, since my roomie has never built his Ikea table and chairs, I DIBS DINING ROOM!!! >.>  If he has the living room, plus the big room with a massive closet... Then I want my room and the dining room :lol:

-scared- there is someone selling a tank, on kijiji... for 300..... and it includes "8ish goldfish" :| 8-ish. he doesn't know?? (also the picture shows a dirty tank)


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## Bubblegum (Jan 9, 2012)

My dream is a pond with wakins. 

That's why I have no fish right now (except my daughter's betta.) We are waiting 'til the baby is old enough that a water feature's not a deathtrap.

I love wakins, but don't think anything smaller than a pond is appropriate for them.

After years of day dreaming, that pond is gonna be EPIC.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: I bet it would be! and good planning, with waiting 'til your kid is older


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Bubblegum said:


> My dream is a pond with wakins.
> 
> That's why I have no fish right now (except my daughter's betta.) We are waiting 'til the baby is old enough that a water feature's not a deathtrap.
> 
> ...


(I must admit, I had to look up wakins to remember what they look like. It's not a common breed of goldfish, and I forgot how adorable they are.)

I love that short double-tail look, but I also find the chubby body sooo adorable. Ryukins are my favorite goldfish breed as it combines both! I love looking down on Goldeen (my red ryukin) when I clean the tank. I find her shape to very attractive.

How many gallons do you plan to make it? I've only had experience with koi ponds, and the sizing is a little different.


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## Bubblegum (Jan 9, 2012)

That's a good question. We'll probably move again by then, so the space will determine the size a bit. I always sort of use 1000 gallons as a reference point because it is a nice big, round number and I have seen that as a recommended minimum for a koi pond.

A lot of the planning has to do with this idea i have to make a miniature fishing village on the edge of the pond. I am a sculptor with some experience with miniatures. Wakins grow to 18 inches. There is something completely hysterical to me about the idea of all these fishing boats tied up and the fish below the surface are larger than they are. Like something from a dream.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

That sounds absolutely magical. I really hope you are still a member of the forum when you complete it because I would love to see pictures. Your daughter is extremely lucky to grow up with that in her backyard. 

1000 gal is a good point to aim for. My koi pond is about 4000 gal, but that's still on the small side for a koi pond. I've always thought that if I got a goldfish pond I'd make it about 500 gal. I think you can use the same stocking rules with wakin/other larger goldfish as you can with koi. I also had no clue wakin got to 18 inches. That's as large as some of my koi!


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I dislike it when people come over, see my sister's 10-inch comet (in it's too small tank) and go on about how big he is...grr. He's smaller than he should be, and if you people treated your goldfish properly, they'd be that size too!

(That was directed at the ignorant general public, not anyone on here.)


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Visitors do that all the time with my Shubunkin. I have to explain that he is actually only half the size he should be for his age.

When I managed a Subway store I thoroughly educated all my staff on fish, whether they liked it or not. I found the best way to explain how big goldfish (comets etc.) get was to illustrate using a footlong sub. A lot of people could not believe tiny pet store goldfish were supposed to grow that large.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

You're right, LittleBetta. People don't seem to understand that many of the goldfish they buy in the pet store are only babies. They're usually under a few months old. You wouldn't look at a puppy or human baby and say "it's x inches right now, that means it can live in a 3' x 3' box the rest of it's life." 

I love goldfish and find them absolutely gorgeous. I hate it when people look down on them because they've never seen how beautiful they can be when taken care of correctly. 

Ohh! Ohh! You guys will love this. It's a Japanese artist who does 3D paintings of goldfish using resin. His work is stunning!! 

Riusuke Fukahori Paints Three-Dimensional Goldfsh Embedded in Layers of Resin | Colossal


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Awesome!!! =D


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

That's incredible!


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