# So you want to rescue bettas?



## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

*So You Want to Rescue Bettas?*

*Knowing the Difference Between a Rescue and a Sympathy Purchase*

The first step to rescuing bettas is being able to tell the difference between a rescue and a sympathy purchase. A sympathy purchase is really nothing more then seeing a sick fish on a shelf and buying it because you feel bad for it and you want to help.

There is nothing wrong with this, but remember, it can't really be called a rescue, because in paying for the fish you are in a way saying to the pet store "Hey you take really bad care of your fish, but I don't care and I'm going to give you money anyway."

So in reality you're paying the store to take bad care of the fish, and they're not going to try and improve anything because they're making money off of the way things already are.

A real rescue involves paying no money at all for a fish in need of help. Most pet stores are willing to give you a sick fish that will obviously die on the shelf otherwise, if you're just willing to ask for it. Some won't.

Some stores, such as walmart, are willing to discount for "damaged goods" while this isn't as good as getting the betta for free, it still sends out a message that they will lose money if the bettas are not well taken care of.

*So You Want To Help But Can't Take In Another Betta?*

No Problem! There are plenty of other things that you can do!

- *Start an online petition *- Get a ton of signature and begin mailing or emailing the petitions to your local petstores.

- *Print out Flyers* - Create and print out an eye catching informational flyer about the proper care of bettas. Leave a stack next to the betta cups at a local petstore or carry them with you when you know you'll be going to a pet store and hand them to people who look like they may be interested in purchasing a betta.

- *Business Cards* - Make business cards with a couple quick, but important betta care facts, and add a link to your favorite betta specific website or forum. And do the same as listed above for the fliers.

- *Word of Mouth *- If you go to a petstore and see someone looking at bettas, strike up a conversation, see what they know and don't know about bettas and try and point them in a positive direction.

-* Proper Care Sheets in Pet Stores* - Approach the manager at your local petstores and ask if they have betta care sheets, if they don't ask them if they would be interested in having you write one up for them. If they do, see if they look good, If some information seems off try and explain to the manager what information is wrong, and tell them you would be willing to help them fix it. Big chain stores like petco and petsmart aren't allowed to change their care sheets as they are made by the corporate office and sent out to all of the stores. But local stores my be happy for your help.

- *Write a letter* - Write a letter to your local petstore and explain to them whats wrong with the bettas, explain that they need the water in those cups changed daily, explain that they need heaters, explain everything, provide facts, don't stop trying.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I totally agree with you. I am okay with a sympathy purchase there is a difference I rarely see unhealthy fish there guppies are another story they always have dead ones but to be fair they cram the tanks full of males and keep few females. The worst I see for Bettas floating sideways then when you approach act normal sick eye and 1 or 2 dead ones in my time. 2 weeks ago when I went there the Betta bowls were dirty but the guy said he was getting ready to change them. They do have to keep them in bowls the fish would fight they keep many similar looking fish. I wish the giants were stored with the plant sale tanks they have 5 or 6 and 4 giants usually. They recently did something by their own rules and took the apple snails out of the fancy gold fish less dead ones now. One of those snails from there change lives in my 10 gallon with my Betta.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I've never rescued a betta from a petstore but I HAVE rescued 2 bettas from certain death. One that my cousin was going to flush and one that an ignorant neighbor wasn't taking care of properly.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> I've never rescued a betta from a petstore but I HAVE rescued 2 bettas from certain death. One that my cousin was going to flush and one that an ignorant neighbor wasn't taking care of properly.


Good for you hope they live long and prosper.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you. It was a few years ago and I don't have the fish anymore but I'd like to think they lived good lives with me.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Fantastic information, so much love for this thread right now. <3

I did a little rescuing back when I worked at an LPS. I had the advantage of watching the bettas on an almost daily basis and was able to bring home a few sick ones to nurse back to health a couple of times.
With all the recent posts from a few members of their rescues, I've really been wanting to start rescuing and maybe adopting out...but generally the fish at my local Petco/Petsmart don't look too bad. I mean, they're generally not happy in their cold little cups, but none of them really qualify as sick enough to be rescues. I suppose thats a good thing though, lol.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Wow that is great!!!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

MoonShadow said:


> Some stores, such as walmart, are willing to discount for "damaged goods" while this isn't as good as getting the betta for free, it still sends out a message that they will lose money if the bettas are not well taken care of.


so is that considered a rescue or not?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

If they make a profit on a purchase it is sympathy if they lose money on it is a rescue.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Just because a store discounts a purchase doesn't mean they didn't make money on it. How are we to know if they made money or not?

I have read on here that WalMart will not give a fish away because they are credited for dead fish?


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Petsmart will give fish away for free if they are ill and they don't think they can sell them or they'll die. Not sure id petco does the same or not but for anyone wanting to rescue those are the first places to look.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

petco takes them away...probably to the back to die. they cannot give away or sell sick fish...
Their bettas are wayyyy over priced anyway...


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I figured as much, just one more reason I like petsmart more ^-^ My friend got a free rat from their with their adoption program because it was too aggressive to sell. I got a free mouse because she was super sick and I said I could get her proper care (even if she died because the care came too late). So I know if they do it with these animals they would do it with fish. The fish there are cheaper than a rat.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

Great thread and message! :welldone:

Whether or not Walmart will give you a sick/cruelly treated fish for free rests on the shoulders of the manager. Always ask to speak to one and then plead your case to him or her. Regular employee's are not allowed to make that decision, so asking them is pointless. I've had the best luck getting free fish from Walmart when I speak to the manger. Also, they are the one's who implement change and better care for the fish, so politely point out the areas of improvement.

Yes, Walmart does get reimbursed for the dead fish... but they are still taking a loss when their 'stock' all dies or no one buys them. We do not know how much money they make off the dead fish. I can assure you it is even close to full price. That would be foolish on the part of the supplier. *The message you send when you pay full price for a sick/cruelly treated fish is the same.* Obviously not buying the fish does make a difference, because many Walmart stores have stopped selling fish completely. 

Hit these companies that support cruelty where it hurts the most; their bank accounts and reputation.


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## toad (Jul 17, 2012)

The Petco near me is very good about caring for their bettas; the water is always clean and none of them appear to be "sick". They are doing about as well as one can do in a couple ounces of water.

2 of my bettas came from Petco, and aside from an injury/genetic defect on one of them, they are perfectly healthy. I probably could have gotten the injured one for free but I was too shy to ask. My 3 crowntails came from Wally World, and I paid for them because I could never get a hold of a manager, and had complained at least 6 times about the water without anything being done. I finally just gave up and did what was best for the individual animals (taking them with me).

So, yes, I am guilty of sympathy purchases; there are obviously better options to try first, but I don't think a sympathy purchase is necessarily a bad thing.


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

Is it a law that a betta cannot be considered a rescue if you purchase it? I simply ask because I disagree with the theory, I understand your point...but I also think it depends on the actual situation at hand. I would condsider my new VT a rescue even though I did pay for the fish. 
My local petco normally stocks 100 betta fish, females, males, all different colors and types. In those 100 stocked fish their are maybe 2 that appear to be dying, 2 that appeat to have swim bladder and maybe 8 male VT's that have clamped tails on a general basis. I think their cups could be kept a tad but cleaner but compared to our walmart petco's cups are pretty decent. 
Our petco sells the nicest betta's in the area. We have walmart, petco and pet quarters. I would never buy betta from walmart, their betta's make me want to cry! And although its tempting, I dont want to support the store selling betta. Our petquarters is a little better than walmart, they stock a lot less fish which I like but even their bettas arent very healthy in appearance. Our local petco is the best for us and they do provide the most variety and the better care of their fish out of the 3 choices so it is where I buy my betta's. 
My newest fish whome I consider a "rescue" is from our local petco. The reason I consider him a rescue - on Thursday they got their new shipment in and along with maybe 20 fancy betta's they got maybe 40 or 50 sick ill bettas that were underfed and dull. Ive been going their for my pet supplies for a while now and this is not a normal shipment for our petco. The young salesman that works there said it was a shame to get a shipment in like that. They had placed them on the front shelf to try and sell them faster (and someone already said it, they wont give them away). Since its not a normal occurance at the store and my new guy was a mere $3.99 I will consider him my rescue. I hope my petco doesnt order from that breeder again and I doubt they will because that was just sad and even they were disapointed. 
But it all goes back to me saying, it all depends on the situation.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

LadyVictorian said:


> Petsmart will give fish away for free if they are ill and they don't think they can sell them or they'll die. Not sure id petco does the same or not but for anyone wanting to rescue those are the first places to look.


Not all Petsmarts are allowed to do this. My local Petsmart isnt allowed to give fish away. They can only do a 50% off damaged goods discount. I resent the fact that my pretty lady Rudy was labeled damaged goods. :evil:


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Friendlyfishies said:


> Is it a law that a betta cannot be considered a rescue if you purchase it? I simply ask because I disagree with the theory, I understand your point...but I also think it depends on the actual situation at hand. I would condsider my new VT a rescue even though I did pay for the fish.





Freyja said:


> Not all Petsmarts are allowed to do this. My local Petsmart isnt allowed to give fish away. They can only do a 50% off damaged goods discount. I resent the fact that my pretty lady Rudy was labeled damaged goods. :evil:




That is my fear, I really doubt ANY store around here will give away a seriously sick fish, they would rather flush it. I will try, of course, to get the discount/free fish but if I can't I will pay full price. Call it whatever you want ;-)


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

LionCalie said:


> Great thread and message! :welldone:
> 
> Whether or not Walmart will give you a sick/cruelly treated fish for free rests on the shoulders of the manager. Always ask to speak to one and then plead your case to him or her. Regular employee's are not allowed to make that decision, so asking them is pointless. I've had the best luck getting free fish from Walmart when I speak to the manger. Also, they are the one's who implement change and better care for the fish, so politely point out the areas of improvement.
> 
> ...


Fabulous!! Exactly +1000 :-D 

From my experience working a summer in the pet section of walmart a few years ago is that when fish die at walmart they are marked down on a sheet, we had to go through the tanks 2x a day scoop out the dead fish and then mark down on the sheet how many of each kind of fish were dead. At the end of that week the sheet was mailed to the supplier who in turn re-imbursed walmart for all of the dead fish. I believe they get back only what they pay for the fish which isn't much, $0.20, $0.30, $0.40 a fish. 



toad said:


> So, yes, I am guilty of sympathy purchases; there are obviously better options to try first, but I don't think a sympathy purchase is necessarily a bad thing.


Exactly! Try and get the fish for free first, or discounted, make some sort of impact, and and if you want the fish still and you can't get it for free then buy it, it's not wrong to buy them, but at least try the other route first!! I'm not trying to say that sympathy purchases are a bad thing, they are not! But technically IMHO if you're putting money in the pockets of the companies who mistreated the fish in the first place it can't be considered a true rescue. 



Friendlyfishies said:


> Is it a law that a betta cannot be considered a rescue if you purchase it? I simply ask because I disagree with the theory, I understand your point...but I also think it depends on the actual situation at hand. I would condsider my new VT a rescue even though I did pay for the fish.


I think it all depends on the situation... It's a thin line I guess, I don't think putting money in the pockets of these companies is doing these little fish any favors because then they are never going to learn, they'll say "Well that fish was in horrible condition but someone paid money for it anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter how we treat our fish because there is always someone who will buy them" 

But yes if you buy a sick fish with the intention of nursing it back to health, then yes you are rescuing that fish from an otherwise certain death. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's a bit of a grey area!


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Great post! I think "rescue" is thrown around too much around here. I made a "sympathy purchase" for my second betta because he'd been in the store for a couple of weeks at least, and he had tons of poop in the bottom of his cup- it was really gross, so I bought him. But I never claimed it was a "rescue". Though I applaud anyone who either buys a really sick fish or gets one for free. No matter what you call it, it's still wonderful.
It's good to clarify "rescue" vs. "sympathy purchase".
And I love all of your ideas for things you can do for the bettas if you can't buy any more at the moment.
Great post!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

It would not surprise if some pet stores treat Bettas bad just so a customer thinks they can treat fish badly and get away with it and reinforce the Bettas like dirty tanks myth.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

IMO what it comes down to is this... (note it doesn't just apply to fish either, but all animals being poorly treated in pet stores!)
*
A sympathy purchase every now and then is not a bad thing.* You are making a huge difference in the life of that fish. It is always best to try and get the animal for free or at a reduced rate. Sometimes neither work and your heart wont let you leave the animal behind. If you are doing a sympathy purchase try to make it very clear to the store manager that you are saving the life of the animal and you do NOT agree with the conditions. Say you are going to complain to corporate and then follow through with said complaint. At least you made an effort to help the fish left behind by doing so.
*
The problem is when people just buy all the sick/cruelly treated fish they can get their hands on and call them rescues.* In doing so you are being part of the problem, not part of the solution. You are simply opening space for more fish to fill, causing them to suffer the same fate. The store will not change because they have no reason to. They are able to sell dying and sick fish at full price. You are also encouraging other people to do the same thing, which causes a big boom in business when enough people do it because lets face it... rescuing animals feels good.

I hope this helps the members who do not understand why it is important to differentiate the two terms.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Just don't want labels to make anyone feel bad for helping a fish.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Just don't want labels to make anyone feel bad for helping a fish.


Nothing wrong with helping. fish I hope someday they will be kept with suitable tank mates or larger cleaner bowls/Giant Bettas in big tanks.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

LionCalie said:


> IMO what it comes down to is this... (note it doesn't just apply to fish either, but all animals being poorly treated in pet stores!)
> *
> A sympathy purchase every now and then is not a bad thing.* You are making a huge difference in the life of that fish. It is always best to try and get the animal for free or at a reduced rate. Sometimes neither work and your heart wont let you leave the animal behind. If you are doing a sympathy purchase try to make it very clear to the store manager that you are saving the life of the animal and you do NOT agree with the conditions. Say you are going to complain to corporate and then follow through with said complaint. At least you made an effort to help the fish left behind by doing so.
> *
> ...


This ^^ Is exactly what I was trying to say! Never ever did I suggest that if you have to pay for a betta in need then you should walk away from it. Bringing home a sick fish is rescuing that fish, yes. You are saving it's life you are rescuing it. But you are also putting money in the pockets of those who caused the betta to get into that state in the first place, it's a double edged sword.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

LionCalie said:


> The problem is when people just buy all the sick/cruelly treated fish they can get their hands on and call them rescues.[/B] In doing so you are being part of the problem, not part of the solution.


 Being told you are part of the problem is the problem.



LionCalie said:


> I hope this helps the members who do not understand why it is important to differentiate the two terms.


Is it important to have 2 terms? 


MoonShadow said:


> Bringing home a sick fish is rescuing that fish, yes. You are saving it's life you are rescuing it. But you are also putting money in the pockets of those who caused the betta to get into that state in the first place, it's a double edged sword.


I'm pretty sure people know this and try to get the fish for free or discount. I highly doubt fish sales are a multi-million dollar enterprise. The sale of all the fish paraphernalia is what makes the money. It just unnecessary (IMO) to put labels on it since, as you just said, a rescue is a rescue. ;-)


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

technically a rescue is what it is right...? saving an animal's life... does it really matter which method you took? 

I mean I don't think the two terms should be compared. they are two completely different ideas, lol. isn't it also possible to rescue a fish through sympathy purchase?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

aokashi said:


> isn't it also possible to rescue a fish through sympathy purchase?


Well just try to make a sympathy purchase WITHOUT rescuing the fish:lol:


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Well just try to make a sympathy purchase WITHOUT rescuing the fish:lol:


XD give it a small bowl and watch it die....?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

aokashi said:


> XD give it a small bowl and watch it die....?


What I mean is they are the same thing. Pay for the fish to rescue it, or get it for free and rescue it. You really aren't hurting the store by getting the fish for free. You hurt the store by never buying ANYTHING from it.


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## Mako (Sep 3, 2012)

I've never thought about it this way. In that case, I have only made sympathy purchases.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

MoonShadow said:


> - *Business Cards* - Make business cards with a couple quick, but important betta care facts, and add a link to your favorite betta specific website or forum. And do the same as listed above for the fliers.


Provided, of course, that it is okay with the website. This website, for example, does not allow members to do this for legal reasons.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Just adding another opinion into the mix, something I have been thinking about while stalking this thread. xD

Whenever we purchase a betta from a store that keeps them in cold, small cups or bowls with water changes far less then necessary, since we as betta lovers and experienced keepers are taking the fish out of much less then ideal conditions(and possibly just as bad/worse conditions if someone inexperienced who didn't know any better were to pick the fish up and bring them home to keep them in their own tiny little cold container), regardless if the fish is sick or healthy, aren't re technically making a sympathy purchase rescue? Does the fish(or any animal, for that matter)really have to be already sick to be sympathy purchased or rescued if they're less then ideal conditions?

And just to make it clear, in case anyone takes this the wrong way.....I'm not saying buying a betta(healthy or otherwise)from a store is bad at all. I'm just stating a thought that had been swimming around in my head for a while. xD


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

registereduser said:


> What I mean is they are the same thing. Pay for the fish to rescue it, or get it for free and rescue it. You really aren't hurting the store by getting the fish for free. You hurt the store by never buying ANYTHING from it.


I do not agree that they are the same thing. Look at it this way:

1. Are you improving the living conditions of the animal in both scenarios?
Yes.

2. Can it be considered a rescue to take an animal out of bad living conditions that threaten its life and placing it into good living conditions?
Yes. 

So what is the difference? In one instance you are saving a fish without financially contributing to a cycle of abuse and/or neglect and in another instance you paying money toward continuing that cycle. You may save one fish life but your money encourages the continuing existence of conditions that will harm other fish lives, not because you want it to but because companies do not care why you purchase an animal just simply that you purchase it.

Let's keep the scenario the same but change what we call the animal. Let's switch "fish" with "puppy." 

Puppies from stores do not come from good conditions. Most of the time, they come from puppy mills, which are places that keep dogs in cramped, tiny, living areas where they tend to sit in their own feces and female dogs are constantly impregnated for their whole lives without leaving their cage. These conditions are terrible, correct? Purchasing a puppy that comes from such a terrible place supports the puppy mill financially. Now, you can say that you are "rescuing" the puppy because if nobody purchases it then it could end up in a shelter and put to sleep or that you are "rescuing" it from prior living conditions by providing it with a proper lifestyle.

Now, the puppy mill does not care why you purchase the puppy. It simply sees a product and quickly replaces it. It has profited. It will continue to profit because people will continue to pay, even if they pay with good intentions. Meanwhile, this profit endorses a bad behavior and contributes this behavior to be inflicted on further generations of living creature.



This is why there is a difference. By purchasing betta fish in what we would call a "sympathy purchase" your money contributes to the improper care of betta fish. By getting the fish for free after complaints to management, the store cannot profit and will see this as a lost opportunity. Even a discounted fish due to its conditions is more of a rescue than a full blown purchase--it is a way of reprimanding the store. 

However, it should be noted that nothing works unless you follow up and send headquarters a letter. HQ should know WHY and WHEN you rescue a fish, even if your rescue is what we call a sympathy purchase, because then change has a hope of starting. Should you not complain to management and see through for a change, perhaps even refusing to buy products until they do change, then it is a small loss that means little.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

DragonFish said:


> Just adding another opinion into the mix, something I have been thinking about while stalking this thread. xD
> 
> Whenever we purchase a betta from a store that keeps them in cold, small cups or bowls with water changes far less then necessary, since we as betta lovers and experienced keepers are taking the fish out of much less then ideal conditions(and possibly just as bad/worse conditions if someone inexperienced who didn't know any better were to pick the fish up and bring them home to keep them in their own tiny little cold container), regardless if the fish is sick or healthy, aren't re technically making a sympathy purchase rescue? Does the fish(or any animal, for that matter)really have to be already sick to be sympathy purchased or rescued if they're less then ideal conditions?
> 
> And just to make it clear, in case anyone takes this the wrong way.....I'm not saying buying a betta(healthy or otherwise)from a store is bad at all. I'm just stating a thought that had been swimming around in my head for a while. xD


That is like saying that purchasing a rabbit from PetSmart is equivalent to rescuing it because it cannot live long term in those conditions. Rescue is often regarded as a noble word, meaning "to free or deliver from confinement, violence, danger, or evil." And unless you are PeTA crazy, I doubt you would consider a pet held in "confinement" or practice of having one "evil" and thus the idea is as long as the animal is held in a temporary living conditions (i.e. betta cups) it is not being rescue from anything but rather transitioned into its permanent home.

That is my take on it, anyway.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Puppies ain't fish.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for that :lol:

I just don't want folks to feel bad for rescuing a fish and the way it has been put here does make is look like sympathy purchase=bad, no pay rescue=good. I know you don't mean it to come across that way, but it seems so. Sorry.

A question for the strict no pay rescuers: where do you buy your fish supplies? Only at stores where you approve of their fish care? Online stores only? Do you boycott WalMart period?


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Are you suggesting that fish are less of a creature than a puppy because puppies are larger, more expensive, and more capable of returning human affection? I am sorry but a living creature is a living creature and it deserves to be treated with proper care and a quality of life. That it what a pet is all about--caring for a living creature to your utmost ability regardless of its cost or ability to return or display affection.

As for me, I do not purchase any fish equipment or any pet supplies from Walmart. I do not agree with their AquaCulture brand, which creates deadly environments for fish to live in including betta vases. I will not support them to continue creating these things. In addition, their treatment of living creatures is deplorable and they have no business selling them whatsoever.

I DO only purchase any supplies from stores that treat their animals properly. I have 3 pet stores in my area. Only one is a major retailer, PetSmart. The others are local and provide disgusting conditions for their aquatic life. I went into the newer store only to ind that their fish were all suffering from acute fin melt, some had open wounds from being ripped apart from aggressive fish they lived with, goldfish were being kept with betta fish, and they were all suffering from ammonia and nitrite poisoning. The owner does not care about them and does not even condition the water or treat sick animals. This store is beyond hope and the owner publicly attacks and sues anyone who dares to challenge the way she runs her store, going as far as to name a certain person who filed a complaint on Facebook and calling her a b***h and encouraging her "supporters" (friends) to harass the complainer online. There is no helping the animals there because the owner is far gone from decency. It is better to avoid that store and let the business die.

If my PetSmart begins to treat their animals improperly I will talk with management. If their quality stays low I will buy online. There are always options.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh, see, I was leaning more towards the 'sympathy purchase' side moreso then the actual legit 'rescue' side....maybe I should have made that a little more clear. xD;

Of course these are just temporary containers....but really even as a temporary home, they dirty little cold cups most places keep bettas in is so much further from ideal for the fish then in comparison to what temporary conditions-ideal conditions are for most(not ALL, of course)other animals sold in those places, from what I've seen/understand. 
And on top of that all the myths and misconceptions surrounding bettas often lead them into permanent homes with conditions that really aren't too much better then the temporary ones they are kept in at the store. So more of what I was getting at is, that in a way, regardless of the health of the fish, we kind of sympathy purchase when it comes to bettas anyway....


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

But what if you're poor...and you have bettas. and only walmart is available to you... 
But I mean... people can fight for the greater cause by not buying fish at all.. But maybe if 100 people just complained, walmart will take it off their shelves.

As for fish, I can't leave one there , knowing full well that he will die tomorrow...paid for or not...


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

If you buy anything from Walmart or any big box store you are supporting them, even if it's an apple or dog treat. Petco and Petsmart will never be totally innocent of abuse even if the one you shop at has clean betta cups.

I'm just saying things never change, we still have puppymills, we still see tiny animals encased in plastic on keychains and hamsters are being microwaved by sick teenagers all across the country. So if anyone wants to make difference in one fish's life by buying it and nursing it, don't make them feel guilty by saying they are part of the problem. We are all part of the problem whether or not we want to be. This is just the opinion of cynical old lady who has been in a bad mood all day ;-)


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

If any one of you young people really care, pitch this to your goverment...It will be easier if they made a law about it rather than trying to change stores 1 by 1 >.>


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

*"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."* -Margaret Reed

Thanks Sivan for your in-depth posts, I agree completely.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

registereduser said:


> If you buy anything from Walmart or any big box store you are supporting them, even if it's an apple or dog treat. Petco and Petsmart will never be totally innocent of abuse even if the one you shop at has clean betta cups.
> 
> I'm just saying things never change, we still have puppymills, we still see tiny animals encased in plastic on keychains and hamsters are being microwaved by sick teenagers all across the country. So if anyone wants to make difference in one fish's life by buying it and nursing it, don't make them feel guilty by saying they are part of the problem. We are all part of the problem whether or not we want to be. This is just the opinion of cynical old lady who has been in a bad mood all day ;-)


Just because there is bad in the world does not mean we should give up and accept things the way they are. No progress would ever get done that way. As rational, empathizing, beings we can determine right and wrong and change the wrong. As you said, it makes a difference to the one. Why not try to make a difference more than one? Why not make a difference to an entire chain? A single store could improve conditions for generations of betta fish just because someone cared to make a difference. 

If you are against something then do not support it financially. Not buying from the pet sections harms the pet section's sales at Walmart. The store does monitor each area's profit increases and decreases. Should they see a decline in fish sales to the point where it is unprofitable to carry them then the store will no longer carry them, even if just to improve its image. It happens around the United States. It is not unheard of. Look around this forum and see the change and good that users here have done for these fish.

A creature's value is not determined by its size, its cost, or its ability to show the anthropomorphized emotions that we are attracted to as human beings. I do not like snakes and they will never smile at me but that does not mean that I think they should be kept poorly or cruelly. I have a strong phobia against certain (most) insects but I would not kill one if it posed no threat to me (not that I could due to my phobia but I would not want others to kill it to appease me) or have it tortured because I do not like it. Fish are seen as cold, slimy, unemotional creatures that do not deserve attention, time, or love beyond looking good as decor.

That is wrong.

If you care about an animal or a cause then you do not support what threatens it by giving from your pocket; a financial support, regardless of your intent behind it, is still a financial support. 

@Aokashi: I will not speak about what other people do with their money; other people do not have the same dedication or feelings toward the subject as I do. However, that being said, I am not in a strong financial situation myself. But I do believe that if you cannot afford a pet then you should not have a pet. I LOVE dogs and would love to save one from the shelters here but I could not afford to keep a dog if it were to get sick. Sure, I could afford some food and toys but not everything it needs. It would not be fair to me or the dog (which would be a traditionally colored beagle named Rosco, in case anyone is wondering) if I were to house it without the means to support it.

The same goes for fish. If I cannot afford to get good, quality, things from a place I can support then I will not get a fish. If I was still so dedicated to having a fish with a low budget (which I was a few months back) I would shop online where I could find better deals or at thrift stores/goodwill, or even garage sales. I would look and put the effort into collecting what I need. 

I had a snail a while ago. It got sick and needed a larger tank, which I simply did not have and could barely afford or make room for. People told me I should just let it die because a $2.50 snail is not worth my dedication. However, if I gave something up from my budget I would have been able to afford a new tank. So I did just that. I found a decently priced glass 2.5 gallon tank for my apple snail, bought it food, and nursed it the best I could. The snail appeared to recover and was finally beginning to show interest in food and moving again but died the next day. I do not regret the care and comfort I gave this little creature for just over a week. I purchased the animal and to me that is a contract stating that I will do everything in my power to care for it even when it is difficult to do so, to never give up because it would be financially easier to merely purchase a new one. 

I made sacrifices but I did what I felt was right. I understand when other people simply can do nothing about it and my heart goes out to them, for it is tragic. However, to simply disregard the animal and the quality of its care because it is "just a _____" is vile.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Sivan said:


> I made sacrifices but I did what I felt was right. I understand when other people simply can do nothing about it and my heart goes out to them, for it is tragic. However, to simply disregard the animal and the quality of its care because it is "just a _____" is vile.


Nobody said that. Puppies are a muti million dollar biz, puppymills still thrive. I'm not sure fish are such a big business. So getting big box stores to treat them better will be harder than puppies, good luck.

Until then, I don't think people should be made to feel guilty for helping. That is all.

Don't be fooled about big box stores, you are supporting them if you buy anything from them.


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## RedRaz (Sep 12, 2012)

I bought my betta from Petco. Actually I buy all my supplies for my crested gecko and leopard gecko there as well. I guess I never really knew there was another option. I know that sounds silly but I didn't. Maybe making people more aware that there are other people *breeders* out there that they could buy from instead of the big chains. I myself turned vegetarian 7 months ago because of how cruel animals were/are being treated. I banned meat and voted with my fork actually three others (family/friends) joined me. I guess making people more aware would be the first step to making a change. Even if only a few listen. At the end of the day it is really up to the individual and how they feel. A person buying for sympathy or adopting a rescue is whatever they feel is right for them. This was a good post because I got to see both side of the coin on this issue. I can't say I will never make a sympathy purchase because I believe in the animals well being at the moment BUT I will make better choices on where I shop and might look into local breeders. Awareness is the first step towards change.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Check out local aquarium clubs, you can buy or trade from members.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

I tried to help a king at Petco sometime ago, they are not allowed to sell sick fish Period, according to the store rules..they can get the fish well, but I asked if I could even buy it full price, just to help get him better they would not let me.."Their Policy states they are not allowed to sell sick fish"???


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you Sivan for your wonderful responses! Waking up to that made my morning!

I believe it was Mahatma Gandhi who said "Be the change you want to see in the world" Yeah maybe we can't change the world... but saying there's no point in even trying is just lazy and cynical. Anyone has the power to change the world if they put their minds to it and really try. If you want things to change then be that change, and educate others about how they can do the same. Don't just give up because it make seem impossible, some of the greatest achievements ever made were once thought to be impossible!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Nobody said not to try either. I'll try again, 

Don't let anyone make you feel guilty if you feel you want to buy the sick fish. If they won't give it to you or discount it and you want to help it BUY THE FISH!


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

registereduser said:


> Nobody said not to try either. I'll try again,
> 
> Don't let anyone make you feel guilty if you feel you want to buy the sick fish. If they won't give it to you or discount it and you want to help it BUY THE FISH!


Nobody is trying to make you feel guilty about anything. Nobody should feel guilty to make a sympathy purchase or simply a purchase because they bought a fish they saw and liked. However...

People should be fully aware of their actions. If you truly believe that you are saving fish and making a difference by _financially_ contributing to a cycle of abuse/neglect, be aware that you are. And then, using your own moral guidelines, decide if the financial support is worth it or if you would rather take a different approach to the problem by not supporting a chain of abuse/neglect. Regardless, there is a distinct difference between a true rescue and a sympathy purchase. NEITHER is necessarily right or wrong; it is just a distinction that describes whether or not the larger problem at hand (the source) is being dealt with or if the individual problem is dealt with (the symptom).

I personally would rather fight the source than the symptom because these problems come from somewhere and will continue to do so until their source is dealt with appropriately.

Just be aware of your actions to their fullest degree, especially if you are going to throw around heavy words like "rescue" and truly do want to make a change.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

registereduser said:


> Nobody said that. Puppies are a muti million dollar biz, puppymills still thrive. I'm not sure fish are such a big business. So getting big box stores to treat them better will be harder than puppies, good luck.


Puppy mills are actually beginning to be shut down. Legislation is being passed to shut them down or more heavily regulate them, thanks to a massive public awareness campaign held by Human Societies and the ASPCA. Fish may not be as LARGE of a business but they are bred and sold to THOUSANDS of stores across the US alone. And not just pet stores are supplying them, though they are the largest distributor and can have the largest effect if dealt with first.

If people care there can be change. There has been in the past and there can be in the future is a defeatist attitude is not held by those who want to see a difference.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

If everyone protests a product and everyone buys that product why change? My local Petco keeps them in bowls but they are spotless. Aquarium industry is a multi-billion dollar business. I am okay with sympathy purchases. A business will only change for profits.


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## toad (Jul 17, 2012)

Sivan said:


> If people care there can be change. There has been in the past and there can be in the future is a defeatist attitude is not held by those who want to see a difference.



I agree with that statement  But, I'd like to think that we don't have to let the little animals we love so much waste away and die to get our point across. There has got to be a way to save the current fish, and the future ones at the same time.

And, not for nothing, but I've written multiple letters to Wally World about this issue, and never even received a response. I've also complained in the store a million times and never saw any results.

I think that a major reason the puppy mills are being shut down is due to public outcries against such cruelty. But, it's easier to get a large group of people to care about puppies, than to get them to care about fish. If public outcry is what is needed to stop this, we need to educate people, not leave animals rotting on a shelf. It's the convincing people to care about the fish that I think is going to be the hard part.

What we need to do is change the attitude of "It's just a fish".


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

toad said:


> What we need to do is change the attitude of "It's just a fish".


Bingo!

By creating a link that causes empathy, such as comparing the life of a fish to an animal people generally care about, a change in relation is possible. That is why I like to use dogs as an example. A classic way to get people to rethink their perspective is to describe the conditions of a puppy mill without using the word "puppy" to rile up disgust and then reveal you are actually describing the conditions that fish are being kept in. Or, use the term "puppy" and then say at the end "now switch puppy with fish and you have a description of how these animals are actually treated everyday in pet stores" or something to that effect. It is interesting to see the look on people's faces when they reconsider. Not all people do because they revert to the "a fish is not a dog" stance and believe that is justification enough but others do rethink and empathize with this creatures.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

People seem to value an animal based on fur. I prefer fish over dogs. A business will only change for profits. The animals themselves still bring in a lot of money.


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

Actually, the animals (betta fish in this case) are not what brings in the big bucks. Their sales are only a minor contribution to what they represent: Supplies. Fish tanks, heaters, filters, decor, gravel, food, medication, lights, accessories..... THESE are what keep stores in business. Threatening not to purchase these items and telling all your friends who have pets not to buy from the store WILL get the store's attention. Bad publicity is a store's nightmare and they will try to fix that. Of course, we need the public support.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

They still make a lot of money on them. More on supplies plus if you do not have a Betta no supplies are needed. Apparently you have not seen my Petco s price for Bettas.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yeah Betta prices are rising like oil grab as many Bettas as possible.


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## weaver72 (Jul 9, 2012)

Well for me a rescue is a mission of mercey and I have a few betta's that were that,In filthy cups,diseased and I payed for them .I can't save all but I do when I can and bring them home to 2.5 gal and heater's and the best care!Paying for them are not going to stop me.I'll pay the 4-19 dollars to save a life!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Technicaly sympathy nothing wrong.


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## harleraven (Sep 4, 2012)

Use the financial gain bit to convince stores to treat them properly. If people see them in halfway decent tanks (at LEAST 1 gallon, if they will not go larger) with filters, decoration, and heaters, they will assume that is what they need to be properly cared for. That means they will BUY larger tanks with all the furnishings, which means more profit for the stores.

I walk into my LFS, and if I knew NOTHING about bettas, I would think that anything less than 1 gallon with a bit of decoration, filtration, and heaters was not enough. Ideally they would be in more, sure, but they get cleaned constantly, so they always look nice and healthy. Sure, once in a while you get one that has something wrong, but considering the number of bettas (and fish in general) they have, seeing one or two in all the tanks is not that bad. Most are swimming around, flaring at each other, building bubble nests, and just being bettas.

Also, if the fish look healthy, they are going to be brighter, more likely to flare, etc. That means they are going to be more likely to be SOLD.


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

My husband's betta, Sushi, was kind of a sympathy purchase. Our local walmart only had a few bettas left, and 2 were floating dead. They were taking horrible care of them, even when I had complained previously (they just don't care). He bought a blue crown tail. The next day the remaining live ones were already purchased and gone. 1 dead guy remained there for 5 days on the shelf. They have NOT had any bettas since then (a couple of months ago), and even all of their fish tanks are 100% empty. The other walmart near here still has fish, but they seem to care at least a shred. I'm thrilled at this... as I suppose I was not the only one complaining... and I'd rather them have none than have some and neglect them.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Luckily in the beginning I never heard the myths but I started bad in a 1.5 I added a heater later without being told my sisters same tank without heater I now have in a great tank check the male betta sig.


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