# genetic deformity?



## masterdan407 (Jan 30, 2013)

I have two out of a 9 fry spawn that have what looks like a mouth deformity. Is this going to effect the betta in the future? It's eating and swimming fine.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Not sure what its future will be but if it can eat and swim normally, I don't think it would become a problem. But I'm sure this isn't genetic.


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

It could very likely effect their lives. I got a rescue goldfish who had it's mouth locked open. He starved to death but he was only with me for a day so I couldn't help. If they can close them they could be okay but would likely not sell except to maybe a petstore. If you want them to live, you need to keep them.


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## belleangel33 (Apr 1, 2013)

This has happened to my fry if the small ones try to eat the bigger fry food its like they break their own jaw I usually give them a few days every once in a while they come out of it, then I cull because they have to use their face as a shovel to get food.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Id cull it. Id imagine life would be pretty hard if you cant close your mouth, especially when trying to get air into your labyrinth organ


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Let it live. If it can eat fine and breath (both of which it obviously can at this point), there's no need to kill them.


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

Yes I agree that they would end up a) need culled or b) have to stay with you or one of us on here to give them a forever home


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

If you have time and space.. and at that age, what is 2 more, let them grow. See their quality of life. I recently raised one born with one eye. Smaller than tank mates.. but still did fine. I have someone that rehomes most of my fish.. and that one went to a home that would allow for the defect. I would not keep it for months.. but at jarring age it had to go. And I was lucky to have a place for it. You may be able to find a special home for them as well.. if not, you can destroy at a later date.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

I cull to my koi. He gobbles up my deformed juvies!


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## belleangel33 (Apr 1, 2013)

Jayloo said:


> I cull to my koi. He gobbles up my deformed juvies!



I think that is the best way to cull , life giving life to another


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm wanting to get a 10 gal tank and breed because I got this gorgeous Delta male and a SUPER eggy plakat girl that would make such a nice pair. I would cull to my other bettas and goldies. If they won't take them then freeze them and bury.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Why delta and plakat? That will give you veiltails... Freezing is not a humane way of culling either.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Apparently internal ice crystals only form when saltwater fish are frozen, not freshwater ones


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Haha Ive been researching freezing now lol. 
So apparently ice crystals can form in freshwater fish too if the slow freeze method is used. If you use the rapid freeze method (dropped straight into crushed ice water) there are no ice crystals and fish are dead within 5 seconds. Its apparently less stressful than overdosing with the euthanasia advocated by AVMA. Quite an interesting read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2786934/


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

+1 for the freezing. In bettas, they will become extremely stressed if placed in a bag to freeze.

Delta or VT are my only option male wise. The plakat is the eggiest girl. When bred together you will actually get Delta that carry the plakat gene. Many HM breeders use PK as they have strong rays to carry the caudal. It will not produce VT unless one or both had a VT trait which they don't as they are not VT and VT is dominant.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Depends on which type of pk she is. A trad is essentially a short finned vt (2 rays and round edges) but If I was you Id probably do a similar cross. The delta will help straighten the tail edges and increase the branching for future generations. Plus if they are your only options then go for it :-D

F2 might get you superdelta pk, since its easier for pk to get a better spread because they dont have as much finnage to move. With good selection you might get some hmpk-ish fish in F3


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

I know! I'm really interested in line breeding and using these petstore fish as a sort of practice and experience builders for the future. My dream line would be a blue dragonscale cambodian halfmoon line or a copper dragon HMPK line or white dragonscale halmoon/deltas! I'm going o move to Louisiana or Texas area to raise spawn outside in kiddie pools for growout and deep bowls for conditioning with netting over it to keep birds out but let mosquito larvae in! Side business though, not full time.

Currently I'm working on raising up some batches of ghost shrimp to line breed for some blues.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

In f1, you will get veiltails. The plakats 2 rays are dominant, and the deltas long tail is dominant....


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

No it won't. If this was the case why would so many breeders be using plakats in their lines to help with fin form? She is a trad plakat so she does have 2 rays but trad combining the two will not result in VT. If they did, breeders would not be able to use the plakats in breeding.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

People tend to use hmpk in their hm lines so they dont have to go backwards. But if you are at the start of your line you cant possibly go backwards using a trad. All my fish started from a trad x hm because hmpk werent even in the country at the time.
Some will get the 2 rays and round tails from mum and long fin from dad = vt. Most will have 2 - 4 branching and varying degrees of tail roundness. Hunt for the straightest edges and most rays for F2 
Its a really fun project to work on


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that long fin no matter what firm is dominant over short fin... Ct x plakat in f1 will be ct long fin. HM x plakat in f1 will be long fin... Etc. I mean obviously in varying degrees but plakat wouldn't show up until f2. So delta or SD x plakat wouldn't be veil it'd be long tail delta and SD with plakat genotype.


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

Yes. I think I am going to look for a nice HM girl to get some HM or SD. I need a new girl considering the fact that right now I have 3 girls in a 10gal, 1 in QT, and 1 in the community tank because she put the QT girl in there.


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