# Tail Tumor & horrible fin rot



## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 gallon, but currently in 1 gallon hospital tank 
What temperature is your tank? 80 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Tetra Betta floating mini Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 4 Pellets 1x a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? - Either 1x per week 95% or usually 2x per week 85%
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 95% or 85%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
- API Tap water condition, API Aquarium Salt, Betta Fix

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? No

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? He developed a huge tumor on his tail - started about 2 weeks ago as very tiny bump and keeps growing. It has caused an awful case of fin rot, which I was first treating with Betta Fix and now am treating with Maracyn I & II. Have ordered Jungle Fungus eliminator. One of his eyes has also turned blue. It never used to be, and it looks slightly more swollen than the other so I was afraid it was popeye.

How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not much until tonight (Day 3 of Maracyns) -- it almost seems like he is blind. He swims up to the surface when he feels motion and starts almost chomping up at the surface. He is darting up and down in his tank, but not eating any of the food i put in there. It's like he doesn't even see that it is there, but is looking for food.

When did you start noticing the symptoms? When they first started developing a few weeks ago. But the tail tumor has gotten awful. 

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Maracyn I & II, stopped the Betta Fix

Does your fish have any history of being ill? He had fin rot and swim bladder before. Both were treated and he got better. But then he was having issues with fin rot off and on. 

How old is your fish (approximately)? He was a full-size male when i got him 1 year ago. 


The only thing that changed in his environment was that I moved into the city where the tap water is not so great. But I have been living here for 2 months now. I let the tap water sit out overnight, use a filtration system on it and API tap water purifier. 

The tail tumor looks awful and I feel so bad for him. It's also like engulfed it's own case of fin rot - just eating away at the center of his tail. This whole thing happened so quickly  Have you ever seen anything like it before?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi, Ayarcee and welcome to the forum. I'm not sure I can tell exactly what's going on from the pics provided. If you can provide a clearer picture of his tail and his eye, that would help tremendously.

Okay, it's good you started treatment with Maracyns, they will treat both the fin rot and the popeye. Have you noticed any improvement since you started using the Maracyns? And for future reference, you probably don't want to use Betta Fix. Even though they market it for bettas, it actually has an ingredient, Tea Tree Oil, that can damage a betta's labyrinth organ which they use to breathe air from the surface. If you can, I'd also switch to API Stress Coat as a water conditioner because it has ingredients that help fish with healing and with their slime coat. It also detoxifies heavy metals, which I'm not 100% sure just plain tap water conditioner does. 

I'm a little puzzled that he would go blind. Actually, really puzzled. I can only assume it is from the popeye. If he is truly blind, then there is not much you can do but blind fish can live happy lives. You may need to adjust how you feed him by using sound cues, such as tapping the glass near where his food is or splashing or something like that. 

Keep up with the water changes. While he is in the hospital tank, you will want to change close to 100% of his water daily to keep it as clean as possible. The idea is to prevent any further infection, especially on his tail where the tumor/rot is. It sounds like he perhaps got a cyst/tumor that burst and the open wound became infected, but I'm not 100% that is exactly what happened. Hopefully the Maracyns will clear it up. Are you still putting AQ salt in?

I hope this helps a little, sorry, I'm a bit stumped about the blindness thing.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hello,
Thanks for the response. He has seemed to get worse (more lethargic, only sits at the bottom) since starting on the Maracyns, and it isn't doing anything for his tail tumor. However, I am only on Day 2. 

I thought I wasn't supposed to do water changes when on the Maracyns so that the medicine stays in there?

Anyway, he is now laying motionless at the bottom on his tank, but not on his side or anything. Earlier he was at the surface of the tank the same way.

He darts up to the surface for air, then immediately darts back down again. I'm just worried about him and it doesn't look great. 
I think the popeye might've just been me being paranoid when I saw his one eye turn blue. Will try to get a good picture, but it is hard to catch him at a good angle right now.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aww, I'm sorry to hear he's worse, that's no good at all.  Is he bloating or anything or just lethargic? And bettas do change eye color every now and then, so maybe the eye is fine. I hope so.

When you dosed him with the Maracyn, did you put an entire packet into his tank or did you dose him in proportion to the 1 gallon he's in? :/ Maracyn shouldn't make him worse. 

If you mixed up the medicine in a different container, like a jug, you can save that water for future water changes. That way, when you do a water change, you use medicated water to refill. 

I hope the medicine kicks in and he perks up, poor guy.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hello,
I dosed him with the proper amount of medicine: divided the packet up by 10. 
He has seemed to get worse and more lethargic since I started the maracyn. His eye has actually gotten slightly larger too - I cannot seem to get a good picture of it though.

Am starting to do daily water changes. But is there a possibility that Maracyns 1 & 2 could make it worse?

Any other ideas as to medicines I could get? I heard Jungle will help for the fin rot, but what popeye/lethargy?

The good news is, he is still eating...but takes him a while to come to the surface. He mostly just sits at the bottom on the tank.
poor guy,
thanks in advance for your help


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Welcome to the forum Ayarcee, I wish the circumstances were better...

Since his eye is swelling and you are using a medication, you don't need to use Aquarium Salt. Use Epsom Salt instead to reduce swelling while the medication deals with the other issues. I recently read that any swelling in one or both eyes not caused by an injury means that he has a kidney infection. MaracynII treats kidney infections so don't stop using it... 

Treat with 2tsp/gal Epsom Salt and 100% daily water changes.

I don't know what to tell you about the tumor... Just keep him comfortable for now and try to treat the fin rot and pop eye.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Maybe the combination of both Maracyns is too much for him. If you think that might be the case, try just Maracyn II. Also, you may want to PM DarkMoon17 for help. She is very good with fish medications and she may be able to tell you why is getting worse on Maracyn and not better.

Which Jungle product are you referring to for his fin rot? The Fungus Eliminator? It won't help with popeye. 

I'm worried about your little guy and his reaction to the Maracyns. Until you can get a reply from DarkMoon, I would suggest cutting back to just Maracyn II. You may also want to look around for a product called Jungle Labs Anti-Parasite Medicated Pellets. Although it says they are for parasite treatment, the medication in those pellets is very effective for bacterial infections. These pellets may help combat the bacterial infection with his tail.

Oh, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you wouldn't dose him properly, it's just that because those dumb packets are dosed for 10g, sometimes getting the right amount of medicine for a smaller tank is a REAL headache. I was just worried for a second that somehow he got an overdose of medication because of that dosing difficulty. Sorry, I should have phrased it in a less accusatory way. >_<

Edit: I posted a second too late but yay, DarkMoon is here! Now you can disregard everything I said.


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## MaggieLynn (Jun 24, 2011)

I have to laugh sakura, you and darkmoon posted at the same time. I find it funny because you were just instructing ayarcee to pm darkmoon. and im sorry to hear about your boy =/ I have never seen anything like this before. I hope all is well


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

When I'm in a pickle, I always turn to DarkMoon. She knows her fish illnesses and her medicines inside and out.  She's my Dr. DarkMoon. Hopefully now that she's on the case, this little betta can get on the road to recovery.

And something just occurred to me: DarkMoon, you ARE a girl, right? Eeep.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

haha yep I am! I love how Dr. is unisex lol Thanks for all the praise Sakura you're makin' me blush! And I can't believe we posted at the same time, I've never seen that before 

Medicine isn't magical so you won't see instant improvement. He may get worse before he gets better. What you have to keep in mind is that if the tumor is internal as well as external then he most likely has some internal organ issues... He may be unable to heal properly because of the tumor and/or the tumor may be causing his other issues. 

I doubt the Maracyn combo is making him worse. If the swelling in his eye is getting worse then his kidneys are getting worse so he probably isn't feeling great. Start him on Epsom 2tsp/gal to reduce swelling so he'll feel more comfortable. You might not need Maracyn but you should still finish the full course of treatment (not finishing the full course can result in medicine resistant bugs). Definitely do not stop the MaracynII.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hello all,
Thanks so much for your helpful responses. 
Darkmoon: Question about the epsom salts. Is he ok to be in them for 24 hours until I do my next water change?

Sakura: No offense taken at all ! thank you for your help. I was finally able to get a picture of his popeye, though it is kind of far away. But you can still see one eye is larger than the other. 

I am worried about his fin rot and potential pop-eye, but the most perplexing thing to me of all is the tumor on his tail (you can kind of see it in the picture - the huge shiny blue lump at the end of his belly. Although he isn't keeping his tail clamped, but I'm wondering if maybe that's why he is hanging out at the bottom of his bowl so much. Because it's too heavy to swim with. Then darting directly up for air and back down again. 

Thanks for all your help. I don't want to prolong his life if it is not the humane/comfortable thing to do. But if it is something that can be fixed...well i'm gonna try.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well that is most definitely pop eye caused by internal pressure (kidney infection). Lets see if you can make him feel well enough to act more normally. If not, you should consider humane euthanasia...

You can add Epsom now, just dissolve it in dechlorinated water before you add it. Do 3tsp/gal. Continue with Maracyn and Maracyn II. He'll feel better (and live a bit longer) if you can get his kidneys under control. You might not be able to, but it's worth a try.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi Darkmoon, 
Would you recommend maracyn the best thing for a kidney infection?? His eye really just popped out like that today - before it was only looking slightly larger. I thought I was being paranoid. Could this lead to the dreaded Dropsy? He is not swelling or anything yet. Another question - do you think I should change out the stones & plant in the bottom of his bowl? Would that have anything to do with helping infection to spread? I always clean them thoroughly with hot water and then treat them with a dechlorinator, before they go in the dechlorinated water. 

Really hope the epsom works. Thanks again for all your help.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

From what I've read, pop eye without abdominal swelling is due to a gram-postive bacterial infection of the kidneys. The suggested med for treating it is Erythromycin, which is the active ingredient in Maracyn. If it develops into abdominal dropsy, then it is caused by a gram-negative bacteria. The most effective commercially available meds are Minocycline and Metronidazole. Maracyn II contains Minocycline and Jungle's Anti-parasite pellets contain Metronidazole. SO, if you keep him on both Maracyn and MaracynII they will help fight both types of bacteria. It isn't 100% both it's your best bet for now. If he is eating then you can try Jungle's Anti-Parasite pellets but he really needs more nutritious foods like frozen blood worms and etc... tumors steal nutrients so he'll need extra. 

I think 100% daily water changes should keep his tank clean enough. Just make sure you thoroughly clean the gravel and plants and it should be fine. But it sounds like you are doing a good job of cleaning his home!


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks, this is all super helpful. I live in a big city where the pet stores aren't always stocked so well, so I ordered the Jungle Pellets. They should get here the day that I finish the maracyns, so hopefully there will still be that overlap. 

I will let you know how he does with the epsom salt. i just have the regular drugstore kind...this is ok right?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Ayarcee: Glad I didn't offend, it's hard sometimes when you're typing and people can't hear your voice and how you're saying something. And your poor guy, his eye looks so . . . popped out. I will definitely keep my fingers crossed and your fishy in my thoughts for a full recovery.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, i know! It got really swollen overnight - was only a little bit puffy these past few days.

Just want to make sure before I use the epsom salts that it is ok to use the plain kind I got from CVS?

Also I read somewhere on this forum the Maracyn II causes light sensitvity? I have a super-bright apartment...should I try to keep him in a darker area?
Thanks!
-A


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, the plain epsom salts without any scents or anything is perfect. And also, yes, keeping him in a darker area would help, not only for the light sensitivity of Maracyn but also just to keep him calm and as relaxed as possible.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

HELP! he's gotten even worse with the epsom salts - his eye keeps getting bigger. i really think it has grown. is it possible that they or the Maracyn could make him worse? should i up the amount i put in?

i just feel so bad for him. it's not looking good, but i at least want him to be comfortable. it seems like he is having difficulty swimming all the way to the top of his 1 gallon. should i put slightly less?

tomorrow is my last day of the Maracyn. I & II. Is it ever suggested to continue as a second dose, or is that too much for his little body?

This is so hard to watch  But he is still eating, which is at least a good sign. Poor guy.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

IF he's having trouble swimming go ahead and lower the water level. Sorry I can't give you any other advice, I've never dealt with this.
Good luck, hope he starts to feel better.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Maracyn will not make the infection worse but it might not be succeeding in fighting his infection. His eyes are getting more swollen because his kidneys aren't in great shape. Do any of the stores around you carry Kanaplax? I don't know if it's worth trying in his case but I've heard good things about it... 

Lower the water level so he can reach the surface more easily. Continue the Epsom Salt to reduce swelling. Continue daily 100% water changes. 

After tomorrow I would switch to Kanaplax if you can find it but otherwise I don't think Maracyn is going to do the job. I'm pretty sure the tumor is the cause of his pop eye and other issues... Keep us posted.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Ok thanks, am trying the Kanaplax on Saturday after his medicine runs out tomorrow. 

So there is or isn't a chance this could turn into dropsy? 
Although he's not doing great now, that would be the worst.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well, dropsy is a symptom, not a disease. Dropsy occurs when the kidneys fail to process fluids properly resulting in a build up of fluid in the fish. The fluid build up pushes the scales out so they look like a pinecone. If the infection (or tumor) damage his kidneys to the point that they cannot process fluids properly then he will get bloated and "develop" dropsy. So yes, it is possible that the fluid build up will worsen and he will pinecone but at this point the pressure is only affecting his eyes, which is good. If it is an infection and completely separate from the tumor then you might be able to stabilize him and lengthen his life a bit. However, there is the possibility that the tumor is the reason he can't process fluids properly. If that is the case then no amount of medication will help him. We don't have chemo for fish... If he is still up for another round of meds on Sunday then go ahead and try the kanaplax, it's worth a shot as long as it doesn't make him miserable. Good luck with him and keep us posted.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Ayarcee, I'm so sorry to hear the Maracyn isn't working.  I am wondering if his tumor is cancerous and causing his body to have trouble properly functioning, including his kidneys. If he has an advanced cancer, his body would begin to shut down. It's not unusual for fish to get cancer. I really hope this isn't the case and he just needs a more aggressive medicine. I'll be thinking of him and hoping/praying he gets better. *hugs*


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Thank you all for your continued help.
This whole thing is so upsetting to watch. He literally won't stay at the surface and darts like lightning speed up there and back down again. Obviously it is hard for him to stay up there.
Poor baby. Will start the kanaplex tomorrow once the medicine comes and I end my maracyn treatments. 

will keep you all updated.
thanks!
-a


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

So, I thought I got Kanaplex...but I ordered Metronidazole instead. I don't think that can help for his popeye. Ugh. 
So mad at myself. But I have another shipment coming by Thursday - he really needs something though poor guy. He was doing a bit better over the weekend and swimming around a good bit. Should I continue using the Maracyn for another day to keep him on something? (I gave him 6 days of it) I am doing daily water changes too. 

How long do you think I should use the epsom salts for? Am I able to use in conjunction with the Kanaplex? 
Also forgot to note that his popeye hasn't gotten any better, maybe slightly worse. 

Thanks for your help!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm glad you've seen some improvement at least. Is it oral metronidazole? If so, you can feed him that while treating him with MaracynII. Kanaplax is better but metro is is still pretty effective. Chose one or the other though. If you chose to use Metro then use it and MaracynII. If you chose to wait for Kanaplax then continue using MaracynII until it arrives then stop. Epsom is safe to use with all medications. Continue using it regardless of medication. Good luck and keep us posted.


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