# white dots on tip of fins



## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

My veiltail has these little white spots on the tips of his fins. Nothing on his body, just the tips.

I've seen ich before and I don't think this is it. He's not doing the scratchy thing or behaving erractically.

Any ideas? I added aquarium salt last night. Temp is about 81. 10gal filtered.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Update: I did a 75% water change and turned heat up to 82. 2 TBS of aquarium salt.

I'm treating it as if it's ich, even though its not on his body.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I finally got a photo. Note the white gunk on the tips. This isn't ich, is it? It's not on his body.


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## dragonflie (Aug 5, 2011)

It's hard to tell from the picture, but based on the description I'd hazard that it's fin regrowth or excess slime coat. Ich looks like grains of salt, slightly raised.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Hi Newtonbetta, If you could answer the questions below it will help us decipher what may be going on with your betta. Ich is usually first apparent on the fins, just because it's an obvious place for us to see it. Ich can travel through the water, which makes the gills an obvious place for it to latch on. However, it's too small for our eyes to view it. Once it blooms, we see it in the form of white dots. Personally I don't think it's ich, but we'd need more info. 

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

flowerslegacy said:


> Hi Newtonbetta, If you could answer the questions below it will help us decipher what may be going on with your betta. Ich is usually first apparent on the fins, just because it's an obvious place for us to see it. Ich can travel through the water, which makes the gills an obvious place for it to latch on. However, it's too small for our eyes to view it. Once it blooms, we see it in the form of white dots. Personally I don't think it's ich, but we'd need more info.
> 
> 
> Hi all, please see responses below
> ...


 not sure, purchased in Oct of last year (2010)


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

I don't have experience with tail re-growth, so I can't make a good comment on that issue. However, your husbandry is stellar, so it doesn't appear to be a fish care issue in any way. Your little guy has long flowing fins, so it could be what dragonflie stated above - tail re-growth. Is he housed in the section with the filter? If so, he easily could've had the ends of his fins damaged by the intake tube. That's typical, if you don't have your intake tube baffled. Also, check all your decorations. Plastic plants are a #1 culprit for fin damage. I ahve two divided 10gals and my boys looooove to swim around their 5 gal space. Lots of area for fin damage. Just a few pieces of input I can offer. Others with more experience will be able to pinpoint your issue. I have ich experience but at this point, I still don't think it's ich.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you for responding. He's actually on the "weak" side, the side without the filter. The plants are silk, although there is a rock decoration in there that might scratch him.

For the time being I'm keeping the temps up like its ich, and monitoring. But right now like I said it looks more like shed skin than ich "salt" spots.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, it's been 5 days since I turned the heat up, added salt and done 50% water changes. No change.. The gunk is still on his tail. I'm still thinking its not ich, it doesnt look salty and its not on his body, just the tips of the tail. His behavior hasn't changed, still active and eating.

But it looks like crap and worries me its not improving.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

I'm more convinced that it's not ich. Ich moves fast. Once you see the dots, it moves to the body quickly and you would have dots all over by now if it were a parasite. Here's what I reccomend: Do a search through our Fish Disease threads and research fin rot and fin melt. I was just on a thread called "Wierd Whiteness on Tail" and someone posted great pics of fin melt. Find that thread and take a look to see if the images are what your experiencing. I can tell you for fin re-growth, all that is required is clean, clean water. Clean water will assist in keeping any bacterial infections at bay. Fin Rot or Fin Melt is a bacterial infection and requires meds. Sakura8 is a great resource and you can PM her for her assistance if you feel you're at a loss. However, lots of folks have fin rot experience and can help you with a treatment plan. Beyond ich I have little or no experience with health issues.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

A search on the net yielded this pic. I feel this is kind of what my betta has, although mine's is not nearly this bad.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

I don't know why, but I couldn't see the pic. It wouldn't open for me. I'm noticing that no one else as responded, so perhaps there was an issue with downloading. Can you try again? I don't want to leave your little guy hanging when it sounds like he needs treatment right away.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Maybe the pic is copywrited. Here's the link.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/cottonfungus1_anonymousjungle.html

Mine doesnt have nearly this bad, but there is a little gunk trailing from the tips of the fins that hasnt gone away.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

I did some research on Cotton Fin Fungus. Below I've listed a few possibilities. The first is a cut-and-paste from Darkmoon17's sticky on "Betta Fish Diseases and Treatments". You've probably read this information already, but in case you haven't, I highly reccomend you do. You can find them posted at the top of the Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies, where you started this thread. They're labeled as Part I and Part II.

I also found a website that lists common Freshwater Diseases. Here's the link: http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Common-Freshwater-Fish-Diseases/13/

This information should help you decipher what you think your betta is experiencing. I researched both the fungal and bacterial forms of your symptoms, so I listed Darkmoon17's treatments for both Fungus and Columnaris. It apppears the treatment plans are closely related, but her information will assist you on specifics. 

If you still want direction, why don't you take a couple new pictures and start a new thread. Name it "Cotton Fin Fungus?" and allow some other folks to direct. I am not a health and disease expert so I don't feel comfortable directing you. I'm just giving you some ideas!

*True Fungal Infections
*•Symptoms: White cottony like patches on its body or head, Lethargic, Not eating, Clamped Fins, Pale Colors
•Treatment: Conservative: Lower temperature below 76* F and treat with Aq.Salt at 1 tsp/gal. Increase water changes to 100% daily. Replace accurate amount of salt following water changes. Never continue salt treatments for more than 10 days. Medication: If Conservative treatment is ineffective after 10 days or you see the fungus spread rapidly during the course of conservative treatment, move to medication. Add “Fungus Eliminator” by Jungle, API Erythromycin, API Fungus Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR Mardel’s Maracyn II. Change water every day and add a new dose of the same medication. Continue until all fungus has disappeared. 

*Columnaris
*•Symptoms: White spots on mouth, edges of scales and fins, Cottony Growth that eats away at the mouth, Fins rapidly disingrate, starting at the edges
Gray areas around head and gills, As the disease progresses the gray lesions may change in color to yellow/brown/red, Lesions often occur in front of the dorsal causing a “saddleback” appearance, Lethargic, Loss of appetite, Clamped, Gasping for air
•Treatment: There are 2 versions of Columnaris: chronic and acute. Chronic Columnaris can take days to progress while acute can kill within a day. It is contagious so isolate sick fish. If more than one fish shows symptoms then treat the entire tank. Perform daily 100% water change in small tanks or ¾ water change in larger tanks. Make sure to clean the gravel. Treat with Aq.Salt: add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Do NOT raise the temperature as it thrives in temps over 85*F, however, lowering the temperature does not seem to help fight it. Combine salt treatment with Mardel’s Coppersafe, Maracyn I & II, API Erythromycin, OR API Triple Sulfa, combined with Jungle’s Fungus Eliminator (if possible).


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Newtonbetta, I was asked to take a look at this thread by flowerslegacy. First, I can assure you that it's definitely not ich. So that's good news. 

My first question is have you done anything different to the tank prior to these spots showing up? Switched water conditioners, added a plant fertilizer or something like that? Secondly, have the white spots gotten worse since you've had him in aquarium salt? And finally, just to clarify, your guy is acting normally, correct? He's still eating, still swimming and active and not clamped?

For the moment, I tend to think it is slime coat that is shedding off but there is usually a reason for that, such as external parasites; the fish will produce excess slime coat in an effort to get the parasites to fall off. Since he's not rubbing on anything, it doesn't seem like external parasites are causing this. Another reason he might shed excess slime coat is adverse water conditions such as high pH or nitrates. I would suggest you test your water just to see what the parameters are. I doubt it's ammonia but it could be nitrates or pH.

If your guy starts to act differently, then there's obviously something more going on. If he begins to act lethargic or clamp his fins or refuse food, post back. In the case of a behavior change, he might have the beginnings of columnaris and will require a slightly different treatment plan. For now, keep him at 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon and watch him carefully for any of those behavior changes. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I thought it was getting better, but today the gunk looks worse on the tips. More of it seems to be collecting into a bigger ball of white gunk trailing from the crowntail fins.

No changes to water conditioners, no live plants. I have not tested water parameters in a while. I am going to petco tonight to get a kit and report back, so maybe that could give you a better clue what's going on? I was going to get an anti-fungal solution as well, methylne blue, but I'm hesitant as it stains the tank (and there's no guarantee that it will work).

No behavior changes, swimming, eating, nothing. I wish I could take a pic with my smartphone, but he swims around so fast I can never focus on the problem area.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Newtonbetta. Okay, on the chance that it is not his slime coat and he is indeed getting columnaris, it would be a good idea to up the dosage of his aquarium salt to 3 tsps per gallon and to lower the heat in his tank to about 76-77 degrees. I wouldn't bother with methlyene blue because columnaris isn't a true fungal infection, it's actually a bacterial infection. 

If you get a chance to pick up that test kit, definitely post the results. I'm interested to see if it's high pH or nitrates. Have a good day!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi, here are the results per the Mardel test kit:

Ammonia - 0
PH - between 6.4-6.8
Alkaline - between 60-80
Water Hardness - moderate/soft
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0

The people at petsmart gave me Bettafix but I havent opened it yet.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Nope, not pH. That's a low pH actually. Mine is 7.8, very high. Everything looks good so I don't think it's a water chemistry problem. I would keep him in 3 tsps of AQ salt at the low temp for a week and see if the gunk disappears just in case it's columnaris. I don't think it is since he's not acting sick but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Also try feeding some high protein foods like frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp. That will help boost his immune system. 

Oh, and it's not new fin growth either. While new fin growth is a white/clear film at the ends of the fins, it doesn't ball up at the tips like that. 

You might want to return the Bettafix if you haven't opened it. Despite its label, it actually contains an ingredient that can potentially harm a betta's labyrinth organ, the organ they use to breathe air from the surface with. I know, poor product research on the company's part. 

Definitely post back immediately if his behavior changes at all. In the meanwhile, good luck with him and keep us posted. 

Edit: Almost forgot to ask. Do you use a salt-based water softener?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I have a 10gal tank. SHould I put him in a 1/3 gal container I just bought, and use the salt in there (segregate him?)... or treat the whole tank? Betta on the other side of the divider is not afflicted with this "ailment." 

Also, is prolonged salt use harmful?

PS the only thing i use with water changers is Petsmart decholoronator.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, I think it would be best to isolate him for now so put him in the small container. If it's still somewhat warm where you are, the room temp should stay around 76-77. As long as it doesn't get below 74 in his tank, then he'll get too cold. For easy water changes, you can get a big gallon jug, such as the kind spring water or milk comes in, and fill it with dechlorinated water. Add the 3 tsps of salt and let the salt dissolve. Voila, water ready for the next water change.  

Prolonged salt treatment can do damage to the kidneys so it's best not to do this treatment for more than 10 days. If he hasn't gotten better by then, we'll try a medication. 

After doing a bit of research, there IS a possibility this is saprolegnia fungal disease. It makes more sense than columnaris, since he isn't showing any other symptoms of columnaris. Salt is a recommended treatment for saprolegnia but if he hasn't improved by the end of 10 days, we'll try a medication with malachite green in it. That's the other recommended treatment.

Also, if you can, you might want to try API Stress Coat as your water conditioner. It's really good for healing fins and keeping fish healthy. Also it detoxifies heavy metals and not all water conditioners do.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi Sakura,

I'm inclined to begin more aggressive treatment now, as I've gone the salt route/lower temperature with little results. I have had 2 Tablespoons of aquarium salt in the ten gallon tank for three weeks. 

What brands of medication do you recommend for malachite green? Also, is the API stress coat also a dechloronator? Or do I need to use both the stress coat and the dechloronator?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Newtonbetta, I agree with you on the aggressive treatment since you've done salt for 3 weeks. You can use Kordon Malachite Green if you can find it. Seachem ParaGuard should also work. If you can't find either of those, then try BettaRevive; I know it has malachite green but I don't know the concentration. I know for certain you can get BettaRevive at Petsmart and Petco but for the other two, you might need to go to a local tropical fish store to find them.

API Stress Coat is also a dechlorinator so you wouldn't need to use any additional products if you don't want to. It can be used as a stand-alone treatment but I think most of us who use it also use it as our water conditioner too.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Got the betta revive at petco tonight (the others were not available). It has the malachite green you speak of. I have a small 1/3 gallon hospital tank, 3 drops of the revive and let's see what happens! Also bought the stress coat for future use!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Good luck, Newtonbetta! I will keep my fingers crossed that it works.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I checked on him this AM. He kept opening and closing his mouth. His gills didnt look like he was distressed, but the mouth was very active. I did use water conditioner in the little 1/3 gallon bowl with the betta revive.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay. He might just be a tiny bit stressed from switching from AQ salt to meds since he's been in the salt for 3 weeks. Also there are some pretty powerful meds in BettaRevive so it might take his system a short while to adjust to the new water chemistry. As long as he's not gasping and his gills aren't overworking, I'd just observe him and keep him in the mixture. If he does start to act really stressed, get him out and maybe try a lower dosage of the BettaRevive.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Its been about 36 hours since i started betta revive. I see some little fuzzy gunk on the bottom of the hospital tank - perhaps the stuff is working and its falling off. However there is still visible gunk on the tips. How many days of this should I go? Should I go on amazon.com and order methylne blue from kordon (a more potent medicine)?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Does Betta Revive have directions on how long to use it? I've never used it before so I don't have a bottle handy to look at. It may take several days for the medicine to work completely. I know that when using other meds, the dosage period is usually 5 days. I think as long as the product directions don't indicate otherwise, I would continue treatment with the Betta Revive for another 2 days or so. 

If you do want to order a stronger medicine, that would be fine too. It's definitely up to you on how aggressively you want to treat this.  Methylene Blue, Seachem ParaGuard, or Kordon Malachite Green are all good meds so any of them would work.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I believe you need to use it for at least 3 days to see results, and it says to find different treatment if it doesn't work after 7 days


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Well I came home (48 hours of treatment so far) and it actually looks worse. I went to petsmart to see if they had the Kordon Malachite Green and all they had was Rid-Ich plus (contains the malachite green). The only other thing I saw was Maracyn. Both of the above are inconvenient, as I have a 1/3 gal hospital tank. The maracyn powder packet treats 10 gallons, and the Rid-Ich doesnt have a dropper.

I wasnt expecting improvement after 2 days, but it looks like he took a step backward. Still active and readily eating.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Hi newtonbetta, Just stick with the product you have - just like Silverfang stated. Especially if he's still active and eating. Your fish's behavior is the best indicator. Bettarevive is a 3day treatment so you need to finish it. Wait other 4 to 7 days and see how he progresses. It takes at least 7 days to see if the treatment worked. If you start adding stronger meds or different meds before the 7 day cycle, you could overdose him and it could be fatal. I learned that lesson the hard way and Darkmoon explained what I had done incorrectly. Sakura is correct with the med suggestions. You'll just have to do some math and decipher how to mix a one gal jug of meds with the dosages they give you. I used Marcyn and used a pinch at a time after doing calculations. Unless Sakura directs you differently, stick with the treatment plan and see it out. But whatever Sakura suggests is the plan of action to take.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi newtonbetta, I agree with flowerslegacy on the Betta Revive. If he's still eating and acting normally, wait it out. If it comes to a point where you do need to try other medications, I can help you with the dosage. All you'll need is a couple of 1 gallon jugs. 

I know watching and waiting is tough and as the owner, you really feel helpless when that's all you can do, but hang in there! As long as he's eating, there's a chance. 

Also, can you describe how his fins look worse?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

You're both right, I'll wait it out. It looked worse in that it seemed the gunk is appearing on more of his fin tips, and a white patch of it on one of his pectoral fins.

This AM, I took a look in the hospital tank. The tip of his crowntail that had the biggest ball of gunk on it had fallen off. A very small piece of his tail, maybe 1/8". It was lying on the bottom of the tank with the white gunk still attached to it.

Still acting normally, other than boredom from being in a space over 5x smaller than he's used to.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's good that piece of his fin fell off because it will prevent the gunk from affecting more of his fins. Hang in there, newtonbetta. You and your guy can do it.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Its going on day 5 of treatment - no improvement.

Should I be ordering malachite green? I would have to do so on Amazon as its not available in any of the pet stores around here. Or, would I be doing Maracyn? I know you want me to wait 7 days, but if I need to order something online I should probably get the ball rolling now.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Newtonbetta, yes, order Malachite Green. Does he look worse? Can you take a pic? And is his behavior still good? (like he's still active and eating). I've got my fingers crossed for him.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

He's still actively swimming and eating. Id take a pic with my Droid but its near impossible to focus on him because he's always moving. 

Should I discontinue betta revive? Put him back in big tank until treatment arrives? Also, is the malachite for fungus only or does it treat bacteria? Thanks for all your help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hmm. Okay, looks like Malachite is a fungal/external parasite med. From what I've read in my fish disease book, malachite green is supposed to be effective against saprolegnia or water mold. I think, however, you can also use methylene blue to treat this as well, or ParaGuard. 

No moldy spots anywhere else, just the tips of his fins still?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Correct. The gunk collects at the tips in little balls. Do you think its possibly bacteria?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I don't think it could be because usually with bacteria, it eats away at the fins, such as fin rot. But the problem with fish diseases is this: one kind of disease, such as fungal, can happen and cause an open wound that then gets infected with a bacterial disease. So often in fish ailments, you have several different types of problems going on. That said, if you would feel more comfortable treating for a bacterial problem as well as fungal, then I would suggest going with either Methylene Blue or ParaGuard. 

Since the Betta Revive isn't doing anything, you can discontinue it. It was worth a shot, sorry it didn't work.  But stopping it now is good because your guy will have a break with just clean water before you start medicating him again.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Ok - I'll put him back in his tank - it will prob take 3-5 days for the malachite green to arrive. As he is still very active and eating, it doesnt seem to be something that's affecting him much...yet.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Is it ok to use the api stresscoat with weekly water changes? Or should it not be used that much?


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

Newtonbetta said:


> Is it ok to use the api stresscoat with weekly water changes? Or should it not be used that much?


Stress Coat is good for reducing stress, so if you're Betta is stressed out right now, put some in. The only other thing Stress Coat is good for is when healing tissues and etc. 

So yeah, you can put some in to calm him down.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

newtonbetta, do you have a water softener system or are you using r/o water?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

What is r/o? Recycled? We Def don't have that in the northeast. Just tap water


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay. r/o is water that has gone through something called reverse osmosis. It removes all these nutrients that makes the water soft. Sometimes that process can remove nutrients that the fish actually needs and it can cause health problems. 

Just regular tapwater. All right, thanks for letting me know. I'm trying to rule out any possible chemical causes for the gunk on his fins. I know that water softeners can sometimes cause problems, as can high pH but I remember you saying your pH was quite low actually. 

I really hope the Malachite Green takes care of things. Your guy is being such a plucky, brave fellow.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Might be a week before the malachite arrives. Will seek your input when I get it. Thanks for your help!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're welcome. You and your betta hang in there.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

In the meantime, is it ok to use the API stress coat with EVERY weekly waterchange, or is it possible to overdose them on that?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, you can use the Stress Coat with every weekly waterchange since it's also a water conditioner. I suppose it's possible to overdose on Stress Coat but I think you'd have to dump most of the bottle in.  Definitely let me know if anything changes with him.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I put him back in the main tank for the week while waiting for the malachite green to arrive. I used stress coat as the conditioner. Maybe the betta revive did ultimately work, because a day after putting him back in the main tank, all the crap was gone from his tail. All of it, and its stayed that way for a week.

So far so good!


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

That's great news!! I've been watching this thread because I'm completely curious as to what you've been fighting and how to fight it. Hopefully the stuff is gone for good - whew! Sakura, you're the best!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Which is good because I didnt need to medicate him a second time. Thank you both.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi newtonbetta! That's fantastic news! Maybe you're right, it was a (really) delayed reaction from the Betta Revive. I'm glad you don't have to medicate him again. Too much medication can really stress them. But it's always good to have some meds on hand so hang on to the Malachite Green. I hope you never have to use it but if you do, at least you won't have to wait for it to arrive in the mail. I'll keep my fingers crossed and say a fishy prayer that the gunk stays away forever. 

flowerslegacy, I'm still not 100% sure on the diagnosis but it does seem like the little betta dude had saprolegnia or water mold, a true fungal disease. Columnaris is usually much more aggressive and I'm not sure it would have responded to the ingredients in Betta Revive. And uh, thanks.  You're making me blush.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, the white stuff is back. He's been back in the big tank a week now. I don't know what it is - his water tests have come back clean, and the betta on the other side of the divider does not get afflicted by it. His behavior is still the same, eating and active. This thing has been happening for about two months now!

Sakura - should I start the malachite green? The product did not come with a dropper or any other measuring device, so I'm at a loss on how do medicate a 1/3 gallon hospital tank.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Dang it!! Looks like Malachite Green will be your next step. Don't get discouraged. I had two forms of parasites in my community tank a few months back and took a while to get rid of them. I'm sure you'll have great success with the Malachite. Please note that Malachite is harmful to humans. It will also stain your hands horribly. The safest approach when using it is to use rubber gloves, like the Playtex type you buy at the grocery store. I've never heard of anyone getting sick from it, but it has a pretty stern warning label and rumors that it may be removed from the shelves in the future. On a positive note, my community tank is clean and healthy and my fish survived perfectly. Sakura can direct you on the dosage. Hang in there!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

newtonbetta, hi. Aw nuts, that's too bad it's back. I think you should try the Malachite Green to see if we can't banish the gunk once and for all. What is the brand of Malachite Green that you are using? Is it Kordon? If so, I believe the dosage on the bottle is for 1 tsp per 10 gallons or 0.05ppm. As I understand it, it's important not to overdose and go over 0.05ppm or the stuff gets toxic. 

Dosage. Uhm, okay, I really stink at math, especially fractions. My resident math expert is out right now but when he returns later tonight, I'll get him to figure out the proper dosage for you. I don't trust my math skills enough to figure out a dosage for you. However, if you can, you may want to get a 1 gallon bowl for QT in the meanwhile. 

Is your guy acting normally stil?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Yes, behavior has never changed with this affliction. No rush. Thanks for all your help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, so here's what you do. Get a container that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Add 1 tsp of the Malachite Green and mix well. Now, you will pour 1 ounce of this medicated mixture into your 1/3 gallon tank. You may need to use an eyedropper. I believe it's 29 ml or 6 tsps but I know for sure it's 1 oz. 

This is making me wish I'd paid more attention in algebra. >.< Okay, I hope this helps. I'm glad he's acting normally still, that's a good sign.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

thank you - will try this tonight.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I finally got around to treatment. The white stuff is now on the tail of his tankmate on the other side of the divider, so I am treating the entire 10gal tank with 1 teaspoon.

Question: do I need to do a 100% water change before re-treating? Would not doing this make the concentration level too high when treating for the second time?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You should probably do at least a 50-75% change. Remove any activated carbon from your filter, as it will filter out the medication. I'm sorry to hear his tankmate has gotten the gunk as well. Hopefully the treatment will take care of this mystery white stuff once and for all.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Just did treatment #2.

New development: I noticed before treatment #1 the presence of white fibrous floaties in the water. THOUSANDS of them. Not sure what the heck they are.

Also, I'm wondering if my algae problem has something to do with the fungus issue on the fish. I didnt bring this up before and I should have. I am fighting (and losing) a battle with algae. I scrape the glass once a week and vacuum the gravel, and there is tons of algae that gets taken out. It's not green water, its clumps of algae that I'm taking out. But theres always more the next week after I clean it! My tank does get some sunlight during the day, but by no means tons.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Upon my research, it might be planaria. My water specs seem OK, so I'm kind of confused how they came out of the blue.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Planaria show up when there's lots of matter to feed upon so maybe they came out to feed on the algae? I hear you on the algae problem. I did that once already. Ugh. Amano shrimp, otocinclus cats, and nerites snails all really help with algae control. I'm not sure the algae would cause a fungus on your guys. Mostly algae is just a pain.

Has treatment 1 done anything at all?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Update. I have been dealing with this since August. It comes and it goes. Sometimes the fish have it on their tails, sometimes not. Treatment with betta revive and malachite green have been ineffective. The water is still very clean and the specs are very good. Temps are at 80. I have kept the algae under control simply by not leaving the flourescent light on when I go to work. The weird planaria floaties (if thats what they were) disappeared in about a week.

Their behavior and eating hasn't changed. It doesnt look like this has harmed them in all in the past three months, but it looks like crap sometimes. Not sure what else to do. I really wish i could take a better pic, but my android phone camera really can't capture it well enough.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

*updated water specs*

ammonia 0
ph 6.4
alkaline 40 (bright green, so i'm estimating betw 0 and 80)
hardness 25-50
nitrite 0
nitrate 10

Are these numbers really that bad to cause this continued condition on my fish?

Do you think I should break out the API Erythromycin? Havent treated for bacterial yet - just fungal treatments.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Newtonbetta, hi. I've been wondering how you've been doing. Gosh, this is weird. Your numbers are just fine, everything is under control. 

:/ At this point, I would adopt a wait and see approach. Too much medicine can be just as bad and we've thrown some pretty hefty stuff at your guys. If the whitish stuff isn't spreading and their behavior hasn't changed, then there's no real harm in just observing them for a while, if for no other reason than to give them some time in clean water without medicine. If the symptoms get worse, then we can see about other treatments but I'm definitely beginning to worry that more treatment without new symptoms would be overmedicating.

I'm really sorry I couldn't help you lick this once and for all, newtonbetta.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. Well it's been since like Oct 20 (almost a month) since i used any medicine (malachite green). I used about 5 treatments in a row of it and it didn't seem to do anything. 

The condition seems to be cyclical. Some fuzz/gunk will collect on one of the tips of its tails, maybe on half a centimeter of the tail. It will collect and get worse, and eventually that little piece of tail falls off. Then maybe nothing on the fish for a week or two, and then it appears somewhere else. I'm not sure how healthy it is for them to be losing chunks of their tails, but it never seems to spread beyond there.

The think is, I doubt its columnaris. This wouldnt last 3 months, right? Is it possible its some other bacteria? With the anti-fungal treatments not doing anything, I'm not sure what else to do.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Newtonbetta - I know that Sakura is out of town for a couple of days. Let me round up Darkmoon for you.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi there Newtonbetta, it sounds like you have had quite the battle over the past few months. 
I was only able to skim this thread so let me make sure I have everything right:
Noticed white gunk on tips of fins, attempted treatment with increased temp and Aq. Salt. Determined it was not Ich (which is correct).
Attempted treatment with Betta Revive... then treated with Malachite green. 
Other betta developed same goo so began treating whole tank, for a total of 5 treatments.
No treatments since Oct 20th. Still seeing goo, losing tips of goo infested fins.

I have dealt with this goo before, but it went away after a salt treatment and hasn't come back... Since he has had clean water for the past month or so you could attempt another course of treatment though as long as the behavior doesn't change you can just increase water changes and see how it goes... 

If you choose treatment, then try API Triple Sulfa. Do a daily water change (about 50%) and replace the correct amount of medication. Since both fish are affected, treat the entire tank and remember to remove activated carbon. If that doesn't work it would be best not to keep throwing meds at them and take a wait and see approach. If their behavior has not changed then they aren't all too bothered by whatever it is. I hope this clears it up though. Triple Sulfa is pretty affective against a large range of bacterial infections. 

Do you remove uneaten food every day? If not, you may want to as that _may_ be the source of your troubles.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Darkmoon you're awesome. Thanks for the quick response!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

No problem, I just hope they'll have better luck this time! This is a tough one.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

You and Sakura are the top of the top. If anyone can figure it out, it'll be you two!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks guys. Very helpful. I already have API EM Erythromycin sitting unused at home. Will this not be as effective as the triple sulfa? I'm just saying this because the pet store is a decent drive away from here.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Personally, I think Triple Sulfa may be more effective but Erythromycin is pretty good too. If you already have it then it wouldn't hurt to try it. Just remember they will need a good rest between this and any future treatments.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I decided to do the Triple Sulfa as you recommended. Started it last night. Here's one of the better pics I've been able to take of him. Maybe you'll get a better idea of what I'm describing. Once again, Malachite Green treatment for fungus was ineffective last month.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hmm, it looks like bacterial fin rot to me. It's strange that the Aq.Salt didn't help. Let us know if you see any improvement. If not, I'll see if there is a different recommended treatment. Good luck!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks for all your help folks. It's a four day treatment so we'll see how it goes.

I think its prob finrot too. Question: How come its happening? My water specs don't seem to be a problem. I feed them 3 betta pellets every other day. Maybe 1% of what I feed them goes uneaten to the bottom. My algae problem got kind of bad until I made the decision to leave the light off during the day - could rotting algae do this?


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I doubt algae is the cause. It isn't the water quality that is the problem, you simply have bad bacteria in the tank. Remove any dying plants and make sure you vacuum the gravel weekly. Pick up decor (especially hollow decor) and vacuum under them. Try to remove any uneaten pellets; those are a source of both bacteria and fungus. What is the temperature? How often and how much water do you change?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, the algae was so bad I would be vacuuming it out of the gravel. Maybe it was rotting in there? Temps are about 80F. Water changes are weekly.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Flowers, thanks for covering for me.  Yay, DarkMoon is on the case! This one was a stumper. Newtonbettas, you're in good hands. All I know about fish diseases, I learned from DarkMoon.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi Sakura! You sure do find all the strange ones huh? 

I suppose it is possible that rotting algae could be feeding bacteria but it probably isn't the source of the problem. It is more likely that the bacteria came in on a new plant, decor, or even on one of the bettas. To get rid of it you are going to have to increase water changes (and vacuuming) and treat the bettas at the same time. Ideally you should try to do daily water changes and replace the correct amount of medication.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I find the ones with the symptoms that could be from any number of diseases. It's times like those that I'm glad someone with medical experience can step in and help out.  You're awesome, DarkMoon. 

Newtonbetta, hang in there! It's taken a while but you'll get this thing licked!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

You guys must be getting so sick of this thread. I really don't know if anything is going to help. The last treatment of triple sulfa ends today. Take a look at what I saw in the tank this AM growing in the betta log below. I only bought the log last week so it hasn't been in there a long time. I wonder if this is the same stuff thats been on the fish all these months.. Once again, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.. I don't overfeed and I do 50% water changes once a week (I don't have time to do any more than that).


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hmm, make sure you scrub that off the log. You may want to soak it in a 10% bleach solution too... Do their fins look any better? It could just be one of those things you will have to learn to live with or will go away on its own... Unless you can get the growth cultured professionally our treatment options are limited to what is on the market and what we have experience with. Unfortunately treatment options for fish are quite limited at the moment...


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Hi Newtonbetta - I'm battling a lot of algea and things as well and I have that in my tanks too. Here are a couple of options and I reccomend you do some more research on how to proceed. Personally, it looks like green algea or possibly hair algea. Algea is common in tanks, especially if you have live plants and you'll always have an outbreak of algea in any fairly new tank setup. Algea is also a sign of a healthy tank. I'm currently suffering through the learning process w/live plants - ugh! However, the bubbles are my main concern. The bubbles look like they're either from the betta or perhaps they just got trapped under the log from natural sources. Also, plants release oxygen as they breathe. But, there is a bacteria called cyanobacteria that also creates bubbles and it's anywhere from green to blue in color and comes off in sheets. You said you have a lot of algea in the tank - does it come off in sheets? If so, then it could be the bacteria which is not algea at all. Currently I have it in one of my tanks. It does not create fin rot, but it is not nice to our fishy friends. Old Fish Lady (OFL) has been advising me on my cyanobacteria and I'm happy to share it with you, so why don't you research and let me know what you think you have. Darkmoon is correct, at the very least, scrub off your log. No matter what you have - algea or bacteria - both are treatable and OFL has never lost fish due do to that bacteria. You'll just need to get on it pretty quick.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Newtonbetta, I get that stuff growing on my betta log too. I have yet to decide if it's slime coat that rubs off or bacteria or what but I think it's harmless. Scrub the log off once a week when you do your water changes, that helps.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

When I had a betta log in there for the girls it would get that inside it quite often. Sometimes twice a week with hot water and a toothbrush just for cleaning up fishy decor.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I've experimented with not leaving the flourescent light on during the day, and it has all but solved my once bad algae problem. So I think that part has been fixed. The fungus/bacteria/whatever it is plaguing my fish has not. :-(. Tonight is the last dose of the Triple Sulfa..

I soaked the logs tonite in 10% bleach solution..

I have googled cyanobacteria and I don't think I've had that. Regardless, whatever green stuff that was blowing up in my tank is now well under control.

Thanks for all your help - I feel I'm coming close to exhausting all the remedys.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How are the bettas doing? Are they still acting healthy and active?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi -There really hasn't been much improvement, triple sulfa treatment is now complete. My parents are taking care of them over the winter b/c of my schedule. So I had to move the whole setup 100 miles away and do an 100% water change. Who knows, maybe another water source may be better for them? They still are eating normally. I just hate seeing that fuzz make them lose part of the tails.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Here's hoping you're right and a change of water will help them.  I'm really sorry I couldn't help you, newtonbetta. Good luck with them and keep us posted of any changes.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you for helping me! I'm pretty sure we tried everything we could. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm being told there's no white fuzz on the fish for over two weeks now, and also the fins are re-growing (knock on wood). The only difference in set-up from what I had here was taking out all the gravel (it was a year old) and replacing it with new gravel.. And of course, a new water source from a different town.

I'm wondering if it was a PH issue or something with the water in my house? There wasn't any ammonia or nitrates/nitrites. I'm getting 'em back in March, so I hope I can figure it out.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

That's great news! You can finally be rid of that stuff! I've recently endured a pH nightmare, so in my recent pH education I can't see it having any effect on producing fuzz like that. However, depending on the type of gravel you had, it could effect a pH swing up or down. But again, it would have rectified itself within a 24 hr. period. **scratching head** Also, I have .50ppm ammonia in my tap so I can't imagine that would've produced the fuzz either. With all the fish I have, I'm sure I would've seen it by now **again, scratching head**. Hmmmm, maybe it was the gravel in some way??? Hey, whatever works! I'm not a chemist or a vet so anything is possible. We're just happy it's finally gone!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, whatever it is, I'm so glad the white fuzz is gone. Hurray!


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi all - its been a while. So it seems that the white gunk is gone, but two things... Shining a bright light on one of the fish I see two things 1) a few smooth gray areas on back & sides, and 2) a definite reduction in iridescence on body more than on fins. Still eating a lot, that hasn't changed. Could it just be aging?


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

How'd I miss this thread??

Anyhow, your fish had the same thing my fish had, and I just now found out what it was: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=92794

I'm glad it's gone from your fish.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

I thought it was cotton fin too.. But nothing worked. Malachite green did nothing but stain the tank. Frequent water changes didnt help either. What you're describing is EXACTLY what I was going thru.

I moved them to another state for the winter with a different water source. They've been fine since then.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

That's really strange. 

I'll for sure be keeping a close eye out for any return of it, now. It -does- look exactly like that picture in my thread.. and behave exactly like the stuff on your fish's fins. 

Since it vanished, I didn't end up trying any treatment other than water changes. I just treated for ich with Protozin, however - might have some malachite in it? Dunno.


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

It's unsightly but it doesn't seem deadly. It did eat away the tips of the tail and that sucked, but they dealt with the affliction for months and really didnt show any other sign of illness other than the gunk.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Well, yeah - Sid was totally happy once he settled into his tank properly, fuzzies or no fuzzies. I initially thought his lethargy was illness due to them, but it wasn't. In fact, he is more able to flare and swims about lot more now that his fins are free of whatever affliction caused them to 'knot' at the ends. 

Interesting that a change of water source made a difference. My water's the same. Only difference is that in the new tank the filter runs all the time.

Ah well, at least it's not vicious.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hey, newton! Long time no see. . Glad to hear the white gunk is gone. Now, the spots on your guys. How old are they? It is possible the spots could be aging if they are getting past a year old. Is their behavior okay? No darting or rubbing?


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## Newtonbetta (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi Sakura - I'll be getting the fish back in a few weeks when my schedule allows. I bought the fish in October 2010 so they're getting up there in age. It just looks like his color is dulling. Just not as brilliant. It doesnt look like scales are falling off, they just look dull. He still eats readily and is active. During the day when no one is around he might spend more time on the bottom than his counterpart on the other side of the tank, but all and all pretty healthy.


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## flowerslegacy (May 10, 2011)

Hi Newton! Soooo glad the gunk is gone. The grey spots . . . Sakura, could he have lost a few scales along the way and these are new growth? Helen lost quite a few scales in transit and she was riddled with grey scales until they all grew back healthy.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Flowers, it's possible, although in his case it probably is due to age. Estimating that he was at least 6 months old before you got him, Newton, your boy probably is close to 2 years old. When bettas age, lots of things happen. Fins become brittle, they can lose scales or marble . . . If he's acting normally, I'd say this is a natural process for him.


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