# AQ and Epsom Salt: We Had It All Wrong



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share with you some info about aquarium salt and epsom salt. Now, I myself have frequently given the advice that epsom salt is okay for a fish to be in long-term but AQ salt must be stopped after 14 days. This is wrong though, as I've been finding out.

*Aquarium Salt (AQ Salt)*
The primary uses of AQ salt in our tanks is to help our bettas fight off infections and parasites and to protect open wounds from infection. AQ salt helps to stimulate the production of slime coat, which is a fish's primary defense against infection of open wounds and against external parasites such as ich, velvet, and costia. In addition, AQ salt helps a stressed fish regulate its electrolyte balances, which is a vital part of its health.

In the past, I've repeated what I thought was truth: long-term AQ salt exposure can harm the kidneys. This is partly true. When a freshwater fish is left long-term in the dosage we most commonly use - 1 tsp per gallon - this high level of salinity can eventually cause damage and stress to the fish. Why? Because these are freshwater fish and they are not made to live long-term in high salinity waters. This dosage is what I call the "medicinal" level and should be used only when a fish is suffering from open wounds such as ripped scales and torn fins. This dosage should also only be used temporarily, no more than 14 days.

However, if we lower the dosage to half a teaspon or less per gallon , we then reach what I call the "tonic" level. This level of salinity is sufficiently low enough that it won't harm the betta. At this level, a betta can be left in this salinity for longer than 14 days and it is common knowledge that many breeders of all types of fish, betta or otherwise, keep their breeding tanks at this level of salinity to help the young and vulnerable fish fight off parasites and bacterial infections. Now, I'm not really recommending any of us betta owners who are NOT breeders do this, however. When in doubt, stick with your fresh and clean water to prevent illness.

There is one other dosage of AQ salt that we use, the 3 tsps per gallon dosage or the "parasite" dose. This is the dose I recommend if you have a betta who is battling ich, velvet, or another external parasite. Using this dosage combined with high heat at 86 F or more both dehydrates and kills parasites and some bacteria, but the heat significantly speeds up the life cycle while also preventing ich parasites from even completing the cycle at all. This dosage should only be used for as long as is necessary to get rid of the visible parasites and then 3 days after. This is a very high salinity dosage.


*Epsom Salt*
It turns out that it's really NOT a good idea to keep our bettas in epsom salts for an indefinite period of time because believe it or not, it can dehydrate the fish and cause long-term damage to the system. Epsom salt is a diuretic, meaning it pulls fluid out of the system. In humans, it's used as a muscle soak to reduce swelling or as a laxative. The primary usage of epsom salt in our aquariums is to reduce swelling caused by dropsy symptoms (ie, kidney disease/failure) and to encourage a constipated betta to go. For a short period of time, as in a few days, this is okay for the betta to be in but any longer than that and we start to run the risk of dehydrating the betta and throwing off their osmoregulation processes and their electrolyte balances, both which are needed to function and fight off illness.

If a betta is going to need long-term epsom salt treatment, I would now recommend doing this as a bath. Same dosages but immerse the betta in the mixture for an hour each day. 


I hope this info helps everyone and I'll post any new info on the topic as I come across it. I will also be testing the exact salinity of each AQ dosage in the near future and I will post the info along with other salinity information as a reference/comparison. Thanks to Myates for pointing me in the right direction.


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## Briz (Mar 22, 2013)

Really well put together post, but I think it would be great if you could list the sources of your findings. It will give this much more credibility. For example, did you do extensive research on your own? From what books, articles, journals, etc? Are you a student of Freshwater Studies? Did you hear this from people on the internet?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Hopefully this doesn't come off as too harsh, I don't mean it like that. More of a polite challenge.


While this makes sense in theory, I need to see credible sources (preferably more then one) before trusting this. 

I also would not keep a freshwater fish in _any_ level of salinity permanently as it is simple not natural... IMO one of the best ways to keep animals happy and healthy is to try to recreate the conditions they would have lived in in the wild, and, well, there is no salt in the water they live in. 

Is there anything saying that using aq salt permanently wouldn't disrupt osmoregulation?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

LOL, no, not harsh at all. Perfectly reasonable. Working on the sources part but I wanted to get the word out right away that epsom salts aren't as good as we all thought they were. There may be a lot of people right now who are keeping their fish in epsom salts who should take them out and put them in regular water.

EDIT:
Here, I can cite this part in regards to the benefits of AQ salt:

"Regular salt, sodium chloride, is a wonderful remedy that will treat many fish ailments successfully. It stresses many freshwater disease organisms or kills them outright, and it promotes slime production on the fish, which is a natural defense against infections and infestations." Boruchowitz, David E., _Aquarium Care of Goldfish_

Note that I said that while breeders may keep a low level of salinity in their tanks at all times, I am not recommending normal non-breeding hobbyists to do the same. Why? Again from _Aquarium Care of Goldfish_:

"Wait, didn't I just say that extra slime is a natural defense? Yes! If something is attacking your fish's body, helping it to produce extra slime is a good thing. It is not a good thing for your fish in itself, but it is good for fighting off infection. If there is nothing wrong with your fish, why make it produce extra slime all the time? It is safest to assume that animals that are adapted to their natural environment will fare best when they are kept in a similar environment . . . Goldfish do not prefer to inhabit brackish water (fresh and salt water mixed), and healthy goldfish are not helped by - and may be harmed by - salt in their water."

Although this book is on goldfish, I believe it stands to reason that ANY freshwater fish should not be kept longterm in brackish conditions. Note that I said under the "tonic" conditions, a fish can be kept longer than 14 days but I didn't say forever.

The main point of the post was to bring to light that for a while now, we've been giving the wrong advice regarding epsom salts and AQ salts. Definitely not advocating keeping any freshwater fish in brackish water. :shock:

Wishing I had marked the sources beforehand. >.<

EDIT:
An interesting note about the controversial disease Malawi Bloat, common in Malawi cichlids. It is believed that one of the causes of this bloat could be the long-term usage of salt (sodium chloride) in the mistaken belief that it raises GH. _A-Z of Tropical Fish Diseases and Health Problems_; Burgress, Bailey, and Exell, pgs. 309 and 335


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

If you guys want, I can talk to some researches in marine biology who have been testing this, studying this for a few decades and see if they have anything official written on this. 

Me personally, once I broadened my knowledge to many of the top breeders in the country that are in the "top circle" of breeders, along with others who have spent years researching this (a lot of those top breeders will actually get together as well to work on such research - one of theirs is about micro worms which is what made me throw out all of my cultures).. What has been stated here prior isn't bad advice, but there is more to it that was incorrect/incomplete and therefor Sakura took it upon herself to share what majority of the breeders out there already knew and practiced. 

We (as a whole) took advice from a couple people here and followed it closely, but after broadening our scope we found there is a bit more to it.

Now, for AQ salt 14 days is max for treatment levels of 1-3 tsp per gallon. But for a bit less it won't harm but rather provide electrolytes. Whereas Epsom will actually dehydrate as it removes fluid from the body - makes sense as it's main purpose of existing is to help reduce swelling. 

I'll help Sakura locate some sources that have more weight and maybe help show an improved way to care for these fishies


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Myates said:


> If you guys want, I can talk to some researches in marine biology who have been testing this, studying this for a few decades and see if they have anything official written on this.


Look forward to it. 
You really don't want me to get started on salt in freshwater aquariums. I'm in the camp where salt has very limited value at best.

Rick


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Such wonderful information! I had wondered about this as well...I've definitely learned to go outside of a single board or group to search for more/better information, and it has been very helpful.  

Myates definitely has a point that in any board, this one included, there seems to be a trend to parrot information from one or two people...which may or may not be entirely correct or the entire breadth of the information being repeated.  Additional information is always appreciated, especially when well-researched and thoughtfully presented.  

Big thanks!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I talk to Gerald, the IBC president on a daily basis and when asked about this (he uses salt - 1 tbs per 5 gallons), his words were "most fish advice is anecdotal at best". He has a degree in marine biology, chemistry and something else I can't remember -.- But he recommends AQ salt with bettas.. I'm going to have to search a few groups, I know there has been discussion over it. Once it settles down and a few of us have some free time we'll sit and talk about it and I can get some more info.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm so glad this came up for discussion. I must admit to being a disciple of Byron Hosking. I believe he knows as much as or more than anyone on TFK. He has this to say about http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-general-articles/salt-freshwater-aquarium-188649/


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks for that link, Hallyx. 

I'm doubtful that the benefits (if there are any) actually outweigh the risks. The reason salt promotes slime production is because it is an _irritant_... The above linked article had a good section that explained how it disrupts osmoregulation as well. 

I don't think salt should be added to freshwater aquaria unless you are specifically treating something, but that's just my opinion.


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## percyfyshshelley (Feb 26, 2013)

<<I'm doubtful that the benefits (if there are any) actually outweigh the risks. The reason salt promotes slime production is because it is an irritant... The above linked article had a good section that explained how it disrupts osmoregulation as well. >>

I was just thinking this same thing. If you wanted to increase slime coat production bit weren't treating for any specific disease wouldn't something like Stress Coat (with aloe vera) be a less harsh way to do that? Just wondering.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

I never use salt for anything.

I agree about the irritant part, and not using salt. why is an overproduction of slime considered a good thing? I mean, the fish is essentially trying to create more of a buffer between it and the water - it's a stress response. That's kind of like saying "my eyes are dry - let me rub salt in them to make them tear thereby moistening them."


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Uhm, mostly, the post I made was about correcting the misinformation about epsom salt being safe for longterm use and AQ salt only safe for up to 14 days . . .

Again, let me state that I never suggested anyone add any levels of salt to their tanks on a longterm basis. Breeders may do this but that is their perogative.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Sakura8 said:


> Uhm, mostly, the post I made was about correcting the misinformation about epsom salt being safe for longterm use and AQ salt only safe for up to 14 days . . .
> 
> Again, let me state that I never suggested anyone add any levels of salt to their tanks on a longterm basis. Breeders may do this but that is their perogative.



we know sukura but this is a debate that has raged for years and is a topic that will generate a lot of opinions and discussion

Rick


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm not a breeder nor have I been in the hobby for terribly long (excluding a few awful years when I was torturing them unknowingly...), and I very much appreciate the information about the Epsom salt being unsafe for long-term use.  I would say that I am probably speaking for at least a few other newer fish-keepers as well.  

On that same point, I *do* understand the long-standing debate, I've seen it several times before now as well. I don't want to step on anybody or discourage any discussion, but I did want to thank Sakura for what it's worth.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Uhm, mostly, the post I made was about correcting the misinformation about epsom salt being safe for longterm use and AQ salt only safe for up to 14 days . . .


I think you also have to look at 'the big picture.'

If I have a fish with a life-threatening issue (like dropsy): I'm going to be more willing to toss higher amounts of Epsom salt into the tank, and leave it there for as long as needed.

If I have a fish with a minor issue (constipation, bloating or SBD): I'm going to use a much smaller dosage of Epsom salt. And for an issue like this, he may only need it for a few days. Once he poops or regains his buoyancy, I'm going to remove the Epsom salt (or dilute it via partial water changes).

For a fish with a chronic issue (like chronic SBD): You have to weigh the potential benefits against the potential risks, and make a decision about whether the fish is better off on long-term, low-dosage Epsom salt, or not. Ie: It becomes a 'quality of life' decision.

As for Aquarium salt, I think Bryon's article was excellent. (Thank you, Hallyx, for providing that link!)


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

All I know is I have one betta that will act like he is dying if there isnt any salt in his water...He goes from dark blue to almost white, becomes lethargic and just floats and lets the current from the filter push him around. I add in some salt and he is back to normal in minutes. However, it dosent seem to matter if its AQ or ES salt that I add..as long as one of them is added....1 teaspoon per 5 gallons as per the API AS instructions


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm far from a purist about water,and rarely suggest folk go through the hassle of doing water modifications. I seldom do so myself. Most fish are quite adaptable. But if I do water mods, I want them to be in the right direction and for sound and understood reasons. I will not do so because popular myth says it is good for all fish in all water at all times. I know better than that, and wish more hobbyists would think about why they do the things they do, especially when they are adding things to the water.

Rick


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

MattsBettas said:


> I don't think salt should be added to freshwater aquaria unless you are specifically treating something, but that's just my opinion.


I've been an assiduous student on this site for a couple of years now and, notwithstanding the "raging" debate somewhere (Why do debates always rage?), I think Matt's opinion reflects the consensus among the more experienced keepers who post here.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

There is no actual study on this issue, just facts of how it works with the body of a fish.. Epsom will dehydrate over time as it is pulling out the fluids of the body.

Out of the breeders I personally know who use AQ salt with every fish, they have had decades of fish care with only one (and in some cases none) health issues such as a bacteria infection, fungus, fin rot, dropsy, ich, velvet, etc etc etc.. breeders tend to be at higher risk as there are fish coming and going at a constant rate - so to have fewer to no health problems such as the ones people experience it the most with quite a few less ill fish shows that *maybe* what the scientists who do breed bettas have some truth to it. 

No one is saying to use the amount one would use to treat fish with health problems (AQ salt), but a little bit can promote formation of slime coating, improves gill function, reduces the uptake of nitrite, wards away a good amount of fungal and bacteria issues, reduces the risk of external parasites, reduces the stress on the fish by assisting the fish’s osmoregulation (makes it easier for the fish to maintain itself physiologically in the water), gives them much needed electrolytes.. there are lots of good reasons to use a tiny bit of AQ salt..



mHeinitz57 said:


> Most people don't even know what salt actually does for fish and I know it doesn't even say so on most product containers. You wiull often hear that salt improves gill function or adds electrolytes or reduces stress, etc...and that is all true to an extent. The main purpose of salt though is for Osmoregulation...
> 
> The cells in a fish's body have a certain salinity level inside them, just like our cells do. The water outside of the fish normally has less salt density than the cells. Because the cell walls are permeable, the fish continually "leaks" out salt into the water. In order to compensate, the fish consumes a large quantity of water to get that salt back. There are also sodium ion pumps in the cell walls that continually have to bring salt back in. All in all, the fish is always expending a certain ammount of energy to maintain a specific salt level in its body.
> 
> When you add salt to the tank, you raise the salinity of the water and therefore the fish does not "leak" as much salt. The fish can therefore conserve energy which can boost the immune system, reduce stress and improve respiratory function. I like to compare it to how us humans will lay in bed when we get sick. This allows our bodies to use all of its energy to fight off disease and is why salt is often suggested for treating disease in fish. In salt water tanks you do the opposite. Saltwater fish are constantly taking in salt because the salinity outside the fish is greater than inside the fish cells. The saltwater fish have to expend energy to expell excess salt so when saltwater fish get sick you often lower the salinity of the tank.


Now, you don't want to use salt in every tank - scaleless fish should not be exposed to salt.. plants is a toss up... going back to the hundreds of breeders who do use small doses of AQ salt normally keep lots of live plants in it with no trouble. 

I think what it comes down to is the amount added.. you want just enough to give the benefits, but not too much that it would hurt live plants nor damage the fish due to over exposure to high doses. 

We know the benefits of the salt to fish in general, we know roughly the ideal amount to use to be a good balance for tropical fish to benefit from and not be harmed. But we don't know whether or not adding it actually makes a big difference in the overall health of the fish as it's hard to compare fish with salt and fish with no salt added as there are too many factors at play one can't simply get equal test subjects.

In the end I think it's just going to be one of those things where it's each person's own preference. Some believe in it, use it and have great results. Others believe in not adding it and still have healthy fish with no problems. 

I personally go with the people who have labs set up who study the fish biology up close and on a level we will never be able to see. They say adding a bit of salt is good, I won't argue  But that is my personal choice.. I have kept fish for 20 years and 99% of the time my fresh water stayed fresh water with no problems. So I can see both ways and agree with both sides when it comes to the use of AQ salt.. one of those debates that really won't have one true winner I believe.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

University of Florida and Auburn University have both done studies on yhe use of salt in aquaculture 
 The Use of Salt in Aquaculture PDF UF 

We have 95% of the ornamental fish farms in the U.S. and UF give us tremendous support in the aquaculture field.

Rick


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

This is just like the betta-mela-pima-fix debate all water has at least a hint of salt in it unless it is RO/distilled water, but that being said it is very very very little, I don't know which way I would go on this one, all of my tanks are planted so salt is a no no, a small amount of salt will not hurt the fish, but my worry would be making salt tolerant parasites and germs so when you did need to use salt, it would not work.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Jungle Start Right with Aloe has some salt in it. I was going to stop using it when I found this out. However, when I did I noticed some my fish having more (minor) fin problems. When I returned to using it I did not have the same issues. If you want a minor amount of salt in the tank this might be a way to add a little. I used along with Prime (both can declorinate but the Prime has some benefits Jungle does not) Humans and other creatures including freshwater fish have a little salt in their bodies. 

"Freshwater fish differ physiologically from salt water fish in several respects. Their gills must be able to diffuse dissolved gasses while keeping the salts in the body fluids inside. Their scales reduce water diffusion through the skin: freshwater fish that have lost too many scales will die. They also have well developed kidneys to reclaim salts from body fluids before excretion."

This came from wikipedia which we know isn't always reliable but someone could probably find something more scholarly to prove what is stated. I don't add any extra salt to the tank beyond this product.


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## Starbelly (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm new to fish and wondering if salt can be used in conjunction with medications and at what dosage.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I was told a long time ago that AQ salt messed with a fish's osmoregulatory system.


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

I'm no expert but it seems to me that the best course of action is try to replicate nature as much as possible using any strong additives only as a remedy for a specific condition or as a last resort.

That is what I do for myself as opposed to my fish. I've survived for many decades using thst philosophy.

My $.02.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

There will be an article in the upcoming Flare magazine about this subject.

I agree that replicating the betta natural environment is a great idea. This is exactly what the addition of a little aq salt (1 tablespoon per 5g) does. Tap water is devoid of much needed electrolytes to keep fish healthy. Streams near the Gulf of Thailand do contain more salinity than our tap water. 

Treating sick fish with aquarium salt is the conservative treatment for most common disease. If it doesn't improve then consider the use of meds and antibiotics.

Sorry for the bump of an old thread but it is an important issue imho to keep healthy betta. On the IBC facebook page an interesting poll is up regarding the use of aq salt. There seems to be a "salt divide" (via Myates) between betta breeders and pet betta keepers on the subject. 

I apologize to anyone I have offended here at bettafish.com on this subject. I am passionate about it because I lived on both sides of the issue and its my strong personal belief, based on my own results in tests that betta are healthier and happier with the addition of a little salt. There are many benefits for the fish including improved gill function, less stress, better kidney and organ function, nitrite and ammonia control and creating an unfriendly environment for the reproduction of bad bacterium. You would have a hard time finding any study that shows this level of salinity is at all harmful to betta. Happy fish keeping.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

I'm not advocating for or against the use of salt. I am throwing out some numbers specific to the salt tolerance of _Betta splendens. _Your mileage may vary; my math may be off; check it before you quote it. 
_
Salinity tolerances of B. splendens (as calculated from Zuanon et al, 2009):
_An acute lethal dose occurs at 45 grams per gallon.
A chronic lethal dose occurs at 35.4 grams per gallon.
The median survival rate occurs at 22.7 grams per gallon.

3 ppt and 5 ppt are commonly recommended dosages.
3 ppt = 11.36 grams per gallon
5 ppt = 18.9 grams per gallon

Ich treatment: recommended dose ranges from 1 TEAspoon to 1 TABLEspoon per gallon.
1 TSP/gallon = 5.69 grams per gallon
1 TBSP/gallon = 17.07 grams per gallon

Tonic dosage: 
1 TABLEspoon per 5 gallons = 3.41 grams per gallon = slightly under 1 ppt


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## Supernoodle (Feb 24, 2015)

Ahh! Okay ... glad I read this!! I have just dosed my betta with 1tsp of ES in his 1gaollon hospital tank due to bloat. So I should really only use this option for 2 days you think?


Thanks!!!
t


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Supernoodle - I'd post about your situation in the Diseases and Emergencies thread. The amount of time to keep it in the tank would depend on various thing, including how badly bloated and if we're suspecting constipation or dropsy. Posting there can let everyone look at your specific situation and make a recommendation with all of the facts at hand.


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## Supernoodle (Feb 24, 2015)

Greenapp1es said:


> Supernoodle - I'd post about your situation in the Diseases and Emergencies thread. The amount of time to keep it in the tank would depend on various thing, including how badly bloated and if we're suspecting constipation or dropsy. Posting there can let everyone look at your specific situation and make a recommendation with all of the facts at hand.


Good to know and have already posted there. Its for SBD ...no dropsy


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks for resurrecting this, CJ. Lots of valuable info here. I think we (and you know who you are) ought to bump important, non-stickied threads for new members to benefit from.

Outstanding, Zhylis. Thank you.


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