# New fish. Suffers from Ich and severe fin rot



## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

I am new to fishkeeping, so any advice is appreciated. 

I got a male veil tale Betta from the store yesterday. Based on what I've seen and read, he has pretty severe fin rot and ich. His droppings are long white strings, which (I think?) is indicative of a parasite. He also has protruding gills. He wouldn't eat any pellets yesterday but he did eat the freeze dried blood-worms I gave him. He did not eat at all today. He seems to keep trying to eat and is looking for food, but he will spit out everything I give him. I've tried soaking and crushing the food. Nothing is helping. 

I took him home in the hopes that I can help the little guy because it was obvious the store wasn't going to take care of him. I've read multiple threads about how to treat ich and fin rot, but much of the advice seems contradictory. 

Can someone please clearly explain what I need to do to treat him? Do I treat the ich first and then the fin rot? Do I treat them together? Are the protruding gills a potential cause for concern? I have aquarium salt at home but I can go out and buy medication as needed. Also, do I leave the filter on or turn it off during treatment? I have a Aquaclear 20. 

Thank you in advance!! 

What size is your tank? 5 gal.
What temperature is your tank? 79-80 degrees F
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no (is one recommended?)
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2x per day, 1 day of fasting

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? daily (I got the fish yesterday)
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API brand stress coat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: n/a
Nitrate: n/a
pH: 7.2 in the morning, 7.6 this evening
Hardness: n/a
Alkalinity: n/a

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? No. I got him yesterday
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? I don't know. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? At the pet store
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Diluted 0.5ml of API stress coat solution and 1tsp of aquarium salt in one gallon of clean water. Replaced 1 gallon of old water with this new water. 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? I don't know. 
How old is your fish (approximately)? No idea. He was much larger than the young fish at the store. He's approx. 1.5- 2 inches long, excluding tail.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you have another fish do not share anything between them.
Ich why you think he has ich? Ich he would have white spots on the body looks like he is cover with salt grains . He would try to rub the body on objects,dart. 
The best way to treat the ich is 88* which will speed up parasites cycle and make them fall so you can remove them with a water changes. You need to raise the temp very slowly though about 2 * in an hour.
You can lower the water in the tank so its would be easier for you to make daily 100% water changes. 
For internal parasites go buy General Cure API or Tetra Parisite Guard .
Poor guy , you really rescued sick betta. Thank you for doing it. 
Also switch aquarium salt to Epsom salt. Epsom (100% magnesium sulfate) unscented without any additives is also laxative for the fish will help to porch the parasites out. It also would be better for him to eat so he can pass the poo with parasites out.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you post a photo of him?

*1) I would treat the ich first. * 

Treating ich involves raising the water temperature to at least 86F. The warmer water prevents the parasite from reproducing, which eventually causes it to die out. 

Anhel suggested raising the temperature to 88F, however you may be able to raise it to just 86F. Some varieties of ich are heat-resistant, so if the 86F isn't effective, you can raise it to the 88F that she suggested.

IMO, you don't need to increase the frequency of water changes to treat ich. The warm water keeps them from reproducing, so they'll die out eventually. It does take quite a bit of time, however. Keep the temperature elevated for at least 3 days after the white spots disappear. 

*2) Treating the Fin Rot*

Unfortunately, raising the water temperature to treat ich means that bacteria may multiply faster. I recommend increasing the frequency of your water changes, as this will physically remove bacteria from the water column.

Hopefully, just getting him into clean water will help the rot. Keep an eye on it. If it looks like it's getting worse at any time, let us know. (A photo would be great.) 

*3) Stop the Aquarium salt.*

As Anhel said, aquarium salt isn't needed for this. Heat is an effective treatment for ich. Aquarium salt may help his fin rot, but IME, it can cause other (new) problems. So I try to avoid it, unless there's a specific reason to use it.

For right now, I also would not add Epsom salt yet. I would monitor the poop for a few more days to see if it goes back to 'normal.' If it doesn't, let us know. If he has an internal parasite, on top of the ich and fin rot, he may need a medication (rather than just Epsom salt)..... BUT.....

I would try using the least stressful way to treatment him right now: heat for the ich, clean water for the fin rot, and good food for his immune system.

For the next day or two, I would just monitor the fin rot and poop. Those can be treated, if needed. 

As for the food, what brand of pellets did you offer him? It's possible that he's never eaten these before. They can be picky about 'new foods,' so he may just need time to accept the brand.

If you want to add something else, you can look into VitaChem. (Available on the Drs Foster and Smith website.) It's a vitamin/amino acid supplement that gets added directly to the water. I haven't used it myself, but a lot of people on the forum have reported good results with it. For your new guy, since his immune system is coping with so much, it might be worth adding this.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you both for your help! I really appreciate it!! 
Here are some photos of him. 

Pics 1 and 2 are from a few days ago when I got him from the store. Notice the protruding gills in the first photo and the fin rot in the second. His gills are a brownish color and he has a large white spot under his "chin."(visible in the first photo. It's the best I could do). The spot is still there and is now a whitish gray. It doesn't look fuzzy. It almost looks like a large canker sore. He also has a single white dot on his right cheek. It's too small to get a picture of. I've been watching him and I'm not sure it's ich. I honestly have no idea what it is. 

Photos 3 and 4 are him in his tank. I just posted them in case they help somehow. The fin rot is visible in pics 2-4. Note that the dot on his body in pic 2 is just a bubble. 

*Regarding: fin rot*. It definitely hasn't gotten any worse. I've read it takes some time for fins to grow back. How do I know when it gets better? 

*Reg: his behavior. * he is very active, swimming around and very very curious. He has learned that my hand above his tank = food, so he has begun responding to me. His color has drastically improved since I got him from the store. I should mention that in addition to being active in what seems like a healthy way, he also darts around quickly and tries to scratch himself" against the tank decorations, which I've read is bad. 

*Re: his food.* I've tried feeding him 3 different brands (my roommate has a betta and a wide array of betta food and treats). Omega one flakes, Aqueon betta pellets and Hikari Bio-gold pellets. I've had the most success with the flakes. He seems to have an appetite but isn't actually eating. He will taste any food i put in the tank but not actually eat it. He sometimes searches the bottom of the tank for old food and will pick at it occasionally. (I'm very careful not to let old food stay in the tank too long). 

*Re: raising the water temperature.*
Unfortunately, I have no way of doing that. He has a heater, but it's not adjustable. I plan on buying an adjustable heater with a thermostat soon (any recommendations are welcome). Can I treat any of his illnesses in the meantime without raising the water temp? I won't be able to get to the pet store until monday.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

He looks better on the last two pictures. Cant see ich but the fact that he is scratching meaning he has something... Keep doing daily water changes. I would do full water changes though. If your friend has a betta make sure you don't share ANYTHING between them. Whatever your betta has is contagious.
You will go to the store monday if you can buy the adjustable heater so you can raise the temperature.
Monitor his poop like LittleBlueFishlets said , if its still white you will need medications. You can get API General Cure or Tetra Parisites Guard. 
Keep trying feeding him. If he has internal parasites its better if he would eat so he can pass the parasites with the poo. May be he is eating from the bottom. If you would do full water changes you can remove uneaten food. You can alternate the daily water changes between 50% and 100%. But i think since you don't have the heater and medications for ich i would do full daily water changes. 
Also try to monitor and see if he gasping for air. Those symptoms can be due to gill flukes. Gill flukes also has similar symptoms to ich, but also gasping for air.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

1) Fin rot:
Clean, warm water is the best treatment. You may see the discolored parts fall off. This is OK. As long as these aren't NEW darkened/discolored areas, it means the clean water is helping. You should start to see new growth that is white/clear coming in soon.

2) His behavior:
His activity level sounds excellent! However, darting/scratching against decorations can indicate parasites. 

3) Food:
It can take them awhile to start eating. A new environment, stress, etc - all of these can make them stop eating. It make take him a few days, or even a week. Keep offering him food. That fact that he's playing with it is a good sign. Hopefully, he'll start eating it soon. If he doesn't, let us know. (And yes, remove uneaten food from the tank so it doesn't pollute the water.)

4) Water temp:
Do you know the current water temperature? If not, what's the room temperature? (Water is often a few degrees cooler than the room.)

5) Since you can't raise the water temp, I would do daily water changes for now. This will physically remove any parasites that have fallen off. Is there gravel or decorations in his tank? For now, I would avoid gravel, as it provides a home for parasites. If there are decorations or silk plants, I would rinse them frequently with hot water to remove any parasites. 

How is he doing today?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Again, thank you both. 
I've bulleted my responses below just because it's easier for everyone. Again, I really appreciate the help!:-D

*1) Behavior:*
He is still scratching and darting. He has also started swimming in vertical circles (as in, swimming straight up, turning and swimming back down, then back up again). I'm not really sure what is going on with him in terms of behavior. It's hard to know his temperament since I got him when he was sick. I'm also starting to wonder if part of the large chunk of his tail that's missing is actually due to tail biting rather than fin rot. The tail is also growing back, so I'm guessing that if he was previously biting, he is no longer. 

*2) Health: *
The dark patches on his fins/tail are gone and are now whitish/clear (yay!) He has also started picking at his food (also yay!). He is not gasping for air and there don't seem to be any external parasites, so I don't think it's gill flukes. My main concern right now is the single white dot on his cheek (which I hope will go away with the water temp increase) and the large white spot under his chin which looks like a scale covered canker sore. He also still has what I think are stress stripes (horizontal lighter colored stripes across his body. They are visible in pics 1-3). He had them in the store, so it's hard for me to know if that's his coloring or if it's a sign of illness/stress. 
I don't see any white stringy droppings. I don't see any droppings at all, actually. 

*3) Heater/ Water temp. *
I managed to run into the pet store right before they closed and picked up an adjustable heater. The current water temp. is 78* I'm going to install it and follow the suggestions below. I'm hoping it helps. 

*4) Tank decorations* I removed the gravel from his tank completely and washed it in boiling water. I will not put it back until he is better. There are a few small decorations in his tank, but they are mainly hiding spots for him. I will wash them in hot water. Great advice, LittleBlueFishlets!


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Upon closer inspection when doing the water change, he's not doing as well as as I thought. The growth under his chin has expanded and is now coming up the sides of his face. It's whitish gray and I think part of it is slightly fuzzy, though I can't be sure. I've posted pics for reference. The first image shows the whitish growth. It's visible around his eye and extends down under the mouth and around the gills. I had a very difficult time getting better pictures of him. The second image is more for reference. You can see the pattern of growth. 
Anhel123 and Littlebluefishlets, do you recommend starting some kind of antibacterial and/or antifungal regimen? Or should I just keep the water temp up (as advised below) and see what happens?
Also, I picked up a packet of Lifeguard all in one treatment at the pet store today. Have either of you had experience with it? I'm hesitant to use medication unless I absolutely have to. 
Thank you again.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

White fuzz? I can't see it in the photo, but if it's a cotton-like growth that's spreading quickly -- that sounds like Columnaris. It's a bacterial infection.

To treat:

1) LOWER the water temperature (slowly) to about 76F. 
Bacteria thrives in warmer water. Lowering the temperature will slow down its growth rate.

2) I would use a gram-negative antibiotic such as one of the furan meds. There are three that have the same active ingredients: *API Furan 2, Bifuran or Jungle Fungus clear. * (Jungle Fungus Clear is the least expensive, and available at Walmart.)

Columnaris is a common bacterial infection. The bacteria that causes it is found in many aquariums. It's opportunistic meaning that if the fish is stressed (due to health, age, environment, etc), it can gain hold and begins to cause an infection.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Is there a possibilities it can be his slime coat since he is scratching and might has external parasites, then he might produce extra slime coat from that? Did it fell of with a water change at all?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How he doing?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Sunlight, no, nothing fell off unfortunately. Thanks though. 

Anhel and LittleBlueFishlets,The growth did not get worse overnight, but it did change color from whitish/gray to light gray/black which is worrisome. He's a little less active this morning, but is still active and curious. I will go out and pick up one of your recommended meds today. I had no idea it would be so hard to treat and diagnose a fish. I'm considering picking up something for treatment of gram positive and negative bacteria (e.g. Maracyn one and two). Thoughts? 
I honestly have no idea what he has. Based on what I'm reading he has symptoms of multiple illnesses (columnaris, spots that look like ick, and possible inflamed gills). In any case, I keep reading and looking at Betta illness photos to attempt and make a better diagnosis. I took him home, so I'm going to do the best I can with him. 
Some good news though, his fins and tail are growing back very quickly!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Try to find first the one the LittleBlueFishlets recommended in her post 9. If you can't find those you can try Tetra Fungus Guard contains nitrofurazone, which is an antibiotic that is good at treating Columnaris. May be if you have nearest private fish store try to find Kanaplex. 
If you can't find any of them then you can try Maracyn two not maracyn though.
I am really worry about ich though. I am not sure how to get rid of those since they also fatal if you don't get rid of them. So since you lower the temp for the fungus you not treating ich. 
There is 2 ways to treat ich - temp and medications. 
Definitely do daily 100% water changes. 
I know LittleBlueFishlest said to lower the temp and its is right, i even recommend usually lower it to 74 with fungus , but i am thinking if you will get medications to treat fungus you can raise it at least to 80* for the ich. 
Tetra Parasite Clear is against flukes, internal worms, lice, anchor worms. Api Super ich cure also is recommended for ich.
Now the ich mdications i am not sure which one you can mix with the other medications. May be try to ask people in the store if you can mix them . But don't do anything until you let us know. LittleBlueFishelets usually on the forum in the evening she might know which meds you can mix for ich and the ones that you will find for fungus.
Also while you don't treat with any meds i was thinking that aquarium salt could help with ich and fungus.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Here is another version:
How he doing?

If he has ich, you should definitely be able to see it .... One way to tell is to check the eyeballs and fins. If the infestation is bad enough, you will always be able to see little white specks, like sea salt, stuck to the fins and eyeballs. If the fish doesn't have these white specks but is itchy, then it probably has some other external parasite and the white "fungus" is can be excess slime coat that the fish has produced in an effort to protect itself. Also, fungus is not accompanied by itching. I would try aquarium salt 3 tsps of AQ salt/gallon treatment with high heat OR any parasite med. Kordon Rid Ich or Rid Ich + will work against other parasites too, not just ich. You can start aq salt with 1 tsp/gall first day and increase it gradually but day 3 use 3 tsp/gall.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

I wanted to post a brief update on how he is doing. First, Anhel, THANK YOU for that description of Ick. It is, by far, the best one I've come across. Now I know he does NOT have ick. Also, the scratching seems to have stopped abruptly. I don't know what was causing it previously, but he no longer does it. 

As for the potential columnaris, I've been watching him very closely. I don't think that's it either. If it is, it must be the columnaris chronic because he is still functioning as usual and I thought columnaris kills within 48hours. 
He has an appetite (and boy is he picky about what he eats!) and he is active and swimming around as he usually does.

I realize my descriptions of what he has are all over the place. I apologize. I just genuinely don't know what is going on with him. I've spent hours and hours researching betta fish illness and I can't seem to pin this down. What he has looks like this (see link). He _only_ has the grey patches on the face.
http://bettafishzidan.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/fungal1.jpg

The website I got the image from says it's a fungal disease, but I thought fungus was a by-product of something else. In other words, it only occurred when the fish was already sick. 
In any case, I went to 3 different pet stores today and literally bought one of everything they had in the fish meds section. Don't worry, I don't plan on using them all or using them together. I just bought them all because I can't keep running back to the pet store every day. Based on the image, do you think I should just go ahead and treat with antifungal Maroxy? 

I have the following: 
Bettafix
Maracyn
Maracyn Oxy (aka Maroxy)
Kanaplex
API Triple Sulfa
API general cure
Epsom salt and aquarium salt.
I also use API stress coat whenever I do his water change.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

wow i think it is perfect example of ich or velvet though. Never use Bettafix or anything with fix it has tee treeoil and very bad for the bettas labyrinth organs. 
Continue to do daily water changes. Keep the tank darkened completely. What is the temperature in the tank ?
Wait do not use any medications yet wait until someone will confirm that i am right. If i am right you will need to increase the temp and do daily water changes. None of the meds you have are for ich or velvet so you might will return all of them. So wait until someone will confirm that i am right. 
Are you able to post close picture?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I pmed LittleBlueFishlets and someone else. Not sure who will see my message. Sometimes people log out before they see it. I am going to log out but if you will not get answer today keep doing daily water changes . Do as much water change as you can. If you can do full water changes. I am surprised he stopped scratching because the picture you posted looks like parasitical disease. How about white patches?

The link betta with ich, is it how he look like now?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bet...j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

If yes raise the water temperature and do daily water changes, keep tank darkened. I really like to say raise it to 88* though. But raise the temp slowly so you don't shock him with drastic diffirence. Rinse with hot water any changing equipment and air dry it after each use which will kill any parasites


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Unfortunately, he makes it very difficult to get a good close picture of him because he is constantly zipping around the tank. 
He does not look like the pictures in your link Anhel123. If you look back to the link I posted, he only has the grey spots that you see on the fish's face. He does not have the salty looking white spots which is why I don't think it's ick. The grey spots on his face look crusty. He also has one white dot on his face that on a human would look like a white pimple and his chin is white. No matter what I do, I can't get a look a proper look at his chin, but I don't think it's his coloring. 
The temp in the tank is 78* I'm scared to raise it because I really don't think he has ick and it could harm him if it's something bacterial. The good news is, however, that for the first time since I got him, whatever he has is not getting worse. It seems to have stabilized. I'm hoping it will only get better from here. 
Let me know what the other say. I really appreciate the help. 
I do one water change a day. He hates the water changes. I'm worried about over stressing him. He is already scared of my hand because he now equates it with water changes. poor fishy.:sad:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

He still acting healthy and eating. The fuzzy stuff that you was talking about yesterday didn't get worse right? He don't have ich . 
So the only symptoms for now :
grey spots on his face that look crusty 
white dot on his face?
And how about that fuzz is it less of it, the same or it disappeared?
And no more scratching right?
Still acting healthy and eating?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

This morning he was active and had an appetite.
I just came home. Here's what I see: 
He has become more lethargic and suddenly isn't interested in food. 
He still has blackish/gray crusty blotches on his face which he has had for days. 
He has one white dot on his cheek which looks like a pimple.
He is no longer scratching. 
And the thing that concerns me the most. He has had a white spot on his "chin" since I got him. This morning it was small, now it has expanded and reaches his pectoral fins. It doesn't look fuzzy, but I really have no way of knowing since I can't see it that well because of where it is. 
I'm really suspecting columnaris. 
Does Kanaplex work for that? I'm thinking I should follow LittleBlueFishlets advice in post #9 and start treating him. He got much worse while I was out at work.


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## Withered (Mar 13, 2012)

Hi there! I've been reading this post and I feel sorry for your little guy.  I think you should for sure start some kind of treatment for him. Reading through your posts and reading things that are suggested from the forum, it sounds like he may have columnaris or some kind of body slime infection. Both treatments are listed on the Betta Fish Disease and Treatment sticky post, but I'll post them here for you to make it easy. If anything, i'd definitely start the AQ salt treatments to see if that helps him any. I think at this rate it would be better then just "waiting to see what happens."


*Body Slime Infection*
•Symptoms: Your betta is covered in a white film. It may just be in a few areas and may rise of the skin a bit. Lethargy, clamped, loss of apetite, may have cloudy eyes.
•Treatment: Body Slime infections or Slime Coat Sloughing are due to bacterial infections. Perform daily 100% water changes. Use 1tsp/gal Aq.Salt for up to 10 days. If that does not work then use API Tetracycline, API Fungus Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR Jungle’s Lifeguard.


*Columnaris*
•Symptoms: White spots on mouth, edges of scales and fins, Cottony Growth that eats away at the mouth, Fins rapidly disingrate, starting at the edges
Gray areas around head and gills, As the disease progresses the gray lesions may change in color to yellow/brown/red, Lesions often occur in front of the dorsal causing a “saddleback” appearance, Lethargic, Loss of appetite, Clamped, Gasping for air
•Treatment: There are 2 versions of Columnaris: chronic and acute. Chronic Columnaris can take days to progress while acute can kill within a day. It is contagious so isolate sick fish. If more than one fish shows symptoms then treat the entire tank. Perform daily 100% water change in small tanks or ¾ water change in larger tanks. Make sure to clean the gravel. Treat with Aq.Salt: add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Do NOT raise the temperature as it thrives in temps over 85*F, however, lowering the temperature does not seem to help fight it. Combine salt treatment with Mardel’s Coppersafe, Maracyn I & II, API Erythromycin, OR API Triple Sulfa, combined with Jungle’s Fungus Eliminator (if possible).


I'm not going to pretend i'm super smart with fish because I am having my own problems right now with my poor guy. He's been suffering from torn fins for a while now, but i'm starting to think he might just be a tail biter. Anyways, I hope this helps you out some! Good luck with your little guy.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi.... The photo that you posted is a picture of a fish with velvet. Here's the website that I originally saw it on: http://splendidbettas.webs.com/commondiseases.htm#314740316

The page that I just posted has information about treating it, too. Also, Anhel can tell you what to do. 

Good luck! Be persistent. Velvet is one of those diseases that can be difficult to get rid of. You'll need to treat it until you're sure that the parasite is completely eradicated.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey treat him with Kanaplex, it's the best choice right now. I pmed LittleBlueFishlets before your post #18 and told her to look at that picture that you posted with velvet. So she was looking on that picture with velvet. 
But from what you saying use Kanaplex as soon as you can, and do not stop it you can use it even 3 courses.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you everyone. 
Some of the greyish/black crusty spots on his face have shrunk ever so slightly and they are turning silver. Is that a sign of healing? 

Withered, good luck with your little guy! I had the same problem with my fish. I got him with what I thought was only fin rot. I now realize it was both fin rot and tail biting! I found this website that helped me understand the difference. Hope it helps!! http://bettafishawarenessday.blogspot.com/2012/10/tail-biting-troublesome-self-infliction.html

Anhel and Littlebluefishlets, I greatly appreciate the help!! I will wait until tonight and see how he is, then I'll start kanaplex. I'll post updates if anything changes.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

JB3533 said:


> Some of the greyish/black crusty spots on his face have shrunk ever so slightly and they are turning silver. Is that a sign of healing?


Nevermind, in my case the answer is no. I'm working from home today and I just caught him at the bottom of his tank gasping for air. I'm going to start kanaplex. Hoping it helps him. :-(


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Also, I had one more quick question. When I got the fish, his eyes were completely black. I just thought it was his coloring and didn't think about it much. Today, I noticed his eyes are actually clear and I can see the pupil (as in, his eyes look normal). Any thoughts on what could have been going on with his eyes. The eyes have not changed in size, so I don't think it was popeye. I'm just curious.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

can you please answer 
You are absolutely sure no symptoms of velvet at all and he is not scratching or darting any longer you said?
And how is that white fuzzy stuff? More, less , fell off?
The reason i am asking again about scratching because the symptoms gasping for air can be also due to the gill flukes that are (external parasites) and the symptoms will accompany with darting and scratching.

Did not see your post let me read it...answer my ques tons?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

No symptoms of velvet at all. I've shined light on him and he does not have any gold or gold like flakes on him at all. He hasn't been scratching for a few days now. He was darting a lot, but it seemed to stop when I turned off his filter (so I think it was the filter).
The single large white spot on his chin and behind his gills has gotten larger, but it is not fuzzy. 
The grey/black splotches on his face have gotten smaller and less prominent. 
Also, I can see the pupil in his eyes now. When I first got him, his eyes were completely black (I thought it was his coloring, which is why I didn't say anything about it). I don't see any external parasites. He physically looks _better. _
But, he is much more lethargic than he used to be, he doesn't have an appetite. The water temp is still at 78*


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do not wait and treat him with Kanaplex as soon as you can. Kanaplex acting internally and externally . 
The only one thing is confusing me is that new symptom he has- gasping for air which happens sometimes if fish has gill flukes. 
So go ahead and use kanaplex. 
Watch that new symptoms and let us know if he does it more often.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

OK, I just got done changing his water so I will add the kanaplex. His symptoms confuse me too. Thanks for the help. I'll update as things (hopefully) get better.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't log out i want to say something else but i am at work need a few minutes....


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

No worries. I'm still here. I just leave the page open.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just went back to check which meds you have on hands. So if you think he gasping for air more often use API General Cure with Kanaplex. Gill flukes are really difficult to get rid of . Usually needs more stronger medications than General Cure but General cure is also recommended for it. And it is ok to use those meds simultaneously .

Good that you change the water. How much water did you change?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

ok thanks. I did a 100% water change. he hates it, but it's important. I have been alternating between 50% and 100% because I'm trying to reduce the stress on him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh good. Please keep us updated.


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Will do


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## Withered (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for the info on tailbiting JB3533. I honestly think mine is a combo of everything. Tailbiting, hard water, flaring. He likes to flare at the thermometer. I really hope that your boy gets better. I'm pretty sure gill flukes were what killed my last fish and I spent forever trying to diagnose him.  He was breathing really heavy at the bottom of his tank and he'd just lean on the decorations and he started having a hard time swimming. Is yours doing that?


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

I just wanted to provide a quick update (a good one!), in case anyone is wondering. 
After my last post where I said I was going to give my fish (now named Einstein because of how crazy and ragged his poor fins ["hair"] looked when I got him) Kanaplex, I decided to watch the tank very carefully and wait a little longer before giving him medication. The tank is not fully cycled, so I was concerned about adding harsh antibiotics to the water. 
I was and still am vigilant about checking on him, doing daily water changes and adding epsom salt to the tank. I'm happy to say that he is improving! I haven't seen stringy white droppings in days! The crust on his face is slowly changing color to match the rest of his face! His fins are growing back nicely! And his eyes have shrunk in size and changed color! I think he had some mild popeye when I got him. Both of his eyes looks a little larger than expected and were completely black. I didn't realize this was a problem because I got him this way from the store, but now they have both shrunk and I can see his pupil! 
Anyway, we're still not completely out of the woods yet, but he seems to be improving by the day! I have the medicine on hand in case it's needed, but I'm hoping it won't be. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who was there to help. I really appreciate it! and I don't know if treatment would have been successful without you! 

...now if I could just get him to stop glass surfing, lol. I'm pretty sure Einstein is a bit of an obsessive neurotic tail biting betta :grin:. I'm hoping it will stop after I add the decorations back into his tank
Enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone. Einstein thanks you too! :yourock:


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Withered said:


> Thanks for the info on tailbiting JB3533. I honestly think mine is a combo of everything. Tailbiting, hard water, flaring. He likes to flare at the thermometer. I really hope that your boy gets better. I'm pretty sure gill flukes were what killed my last fish and I spent forever trying to diagnose him.  He was breathing really heavy at the bottom of his tank and he'd just lean on the decorations and he started having a hard time swimming. Is yours doing that?


I'm sorry to hear about your last fish. 
Mine seems to be improving, but it's good to know the symptoms of gill flukes


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Very happy to hear he is improving!!! Wow from so much problem to improving without any medications just Epsom and water changes. I would really like to have another update, and it should be a good one too


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> Wow from so much problem to improving without any medications just Epsom and water changes.


I know!! Who could have guessed!? He's one tough guy. 
I will update again in a few days!! :-D


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Will wait for an update


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi Anhel123, 

I just wanted to give you another update! :-D
He is doing fine! He is swimming, enjoying his new tank and his fishy personality is starting to come out. He is very territorial (Flares are everything!) but a big coward, hehe. He'll flare at the thermometer, for example, then swim away quickly. The come back a few seconds later, flare, and swim away. It's hilarious! He is also a super picky eater! He will not eat pellets (doesn't matter if they're soaked, crushed or dry) but he will eat flakes from the same brand. He doesn't like brine shrimp at all and he will only eat blood-worms _sometimes_. He is very *very* curious. His tank sits on my desk and he will just bob around and watch me work sometimes. So adorable!

The crustiness on his face is slowly receding. I don't think there's much to worry about there anymore. His tail and fins are growing back nicely! The only thing that concerns me is that he still has stress stripes. I'm wondering if he just needs time to get used to his tank. I've stopped putting salt in the tank because I worry that at this point it will do more harm than good. I am still keeping a close eye on him though. I think that whatever damage was done to him at the pet store will never fully recover. His gills, for example, don't recede properly. There's always a little bit hanging out. It doesn't seem to bother him though, which is good. His fins also, will probably never be perfect. I've posted a pic so you can see my beautiful boy (damaged fins, gills and all! ;-) ) I'm so happy I picked him up from the store. The poor thing was a completely different fish two weeks ago in the pet store :-(
Thank you again for your help. I don't know that the news would be this good without your advice. Please keep up the amazing work that you do by helping others. It is appreciated by the Bettas and their humans :welldone:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

aww i am so glad he is doing good with all your help ! His caudal fins has sign of regrowth , so they will look better.
So your tank is completely cycled now? Just a few tips make sure you do 50% water changes with vacuuming weekly and don't forget to swish/rinse filter media in the tank water weekly. 
Thank you very much , hopefully you can enjoy him for a long time!!! He is one lucky guy who is appreciate your love very much


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## JB3533 (Oct 18, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> aww i am so glad he is doing good with all your help ! His caudal fins has sign of regrowth , so they will look better.
> So your tank is completely cycled now? Just a few tips make sure you do 50% water changes with vacuuming weekly and don't forget to swish/rinse filter media in the tank water weekly.
> Thank you very much , hopefully you can enjoy him for a long time!!! He is one lucky guy who is appreciate your love very much


Hi Anhel, 

I'm sorry for the super late response. I didn't see this message. 
Yes, the tank is completely cycled  
He is doing fine now. His fin growth is now even better than before. 
Thank you for the tips! That's good advice 
I appreciate all the help. Wishing you only good things to come!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

awww thank you the same for you!!!


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