# Bettas went crazy?? Sorority help needed!



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Hey guys!

So May 23 - May 29 I was gone to a wedding. I asked my roommate to look after my girls and one boy and to feed them only once during that time (I lost a girl the day before because I accidentally left my tank top open and she had jumped out :'( )

Anywho when I got back my girls looked like they had been trying to eat one another!! And the worst is that Paddie and Maybelline were COMPLETELY clamped up. Right now I have separated Paddie and into a 2.5 gallon tank (with a teaspoon of Epsom salt). I left Maybelline in the tank because she's been hiding mostly and I didn't want to stress her by moving her. 

Right now they are both breathing really hard. Maybelline has been mostly going under or trying to and has just been sitting there breath very heavy. Paddie has been swimming around more than Maybelline but they are basically 100% stressed out to the point they both look sick. Right now unfortunately my 20 long isn't cycled but the ammonia is zero and I did about a 20-30% water change yesterday and today just to make sure the water was nice and clean. I haven't added any salt to the 20 long because I didn't want it hurting my plants. 

I've dealt with stressed bettas but I don't know what happened to those two because ammonia and everything else was 0 when I got back and I thought maybe they just got really hungry??

Maybelline:





























Paddie:


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Was it just those three in there or were all your girls in?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Was it just those three in there or were all your girls in?


It was all 9 of my girls but only my petco bettas seemed to be effected


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Interesting, it could have been that your AB fish just ganged up on them, I've seen that happen before but where my Petco girls were almost obliterated by the 4 siblings I have.

The new girls weren't QT'd before they were put in, right?


----------



## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

The fins I can see don't look to badly nibbled on. Is you tank on a timer for the lights? maybe the lights got left on (or off) the entire time you were gone or they didn't get fed. Or maybe these 2 girls have an attachment to seeing you feed them and talk to them everyday and had a bad reaction to not seeing you for a week.

I've had 2 fish that if they go more than 5 hours of not seeing me, they stress stripe, clamp up and pace the front of the tank and/or hide- nearly head bashing when they finally see me.


----------



## Fishy Mom (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, since one girl passed away that would mess up the chain of command a bit. While they were sorting out a new pecking order you were away too, which changed up their routine. They are probably very stressed right now poor things.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Interesting, it could have been that your AB fish just ganged up on them, I've seen that happen before but where my Petco girls were almost obliterated by the 4 siblings I have.
> 
> The new girls weren't QT'd before they were put in, right?


See it was only my petco girls that seemed effected, none of my girls are siblings so I don't know what happened. 

And they were quarantined for a week and a half though


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

peachii said:


> The fins I can see don't look to badly nibbled on. Is you tank on a timer for the lights? maybe the lights got left on (or off) the entire time you were gone or they didn't get fed. Or maybe these 2 girls have an attachment to seeing you feed them and talk to them everyday and had a bad reaction to not seeing you for a week.
> 
> I've had 2 fish that if they go more than 5 hours of not seeing me, they stress stripe, clamp up and pace the front of the tank and/or hide- nearly head bashing when they finally see me.


Yeah I was thinking maybe the lack of my stressed them out. And I usually don't use my tank light unless to take pictures, I just keep my room lights on. I had my roommate feed them once and she was here every day but I doubt she would have been talking to them. Even the tank top had a lot of droplets (meaning the tank top hadnt been lifted for a while.). 

I'm still not sure if I should move Maybelline or leave her


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Where they in constant sight of each other?

When I QT new girls now (I know this is different from your situation) I have them in my 1 gallon that I float in my 33 so that they can clearly see each other for the two weeks that I've got them in there and no harm will be done to them. And then they are much more likely to enter into the sorority at the bottom of the totem pole and not really care much, at least that's been my experience so far.

But I agree with the others, the one girl dying disrupted the balance and so they had to reorganize everything pretty much. But it could also be the fact that you weren't there for them which I know stressed out some of my Betta's as well and then they brighten up and go all crazy when they see me. 

I would keep them in view of the other girls for sure, floating their QT tanks in the bigger tank would be best and keep everyone separated for about a week or so until your Petco girls liven up a bit and are strong enough to reenter the sorority.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Fishy Mom said:


> Well, since one girl passed away that would mess up the chain of command a bit. While they were sorting out a new pecking order you were away too, which changed up their routine. They are probably very stressed right now poor things.


Yeah, trust me I didn't want to leave. Colorado was great but not only did I leave my horse and the barn cats but also all the animals I feed at Swan Lake, my girls and boy, and I had am exam when I got back.

And now I'm heading home until Sunday to help out my parents with house sitting so I'm nervous to leave but at least everyone seems fine besides Paddie and Maybelline


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Where they in constant sight of each other?
> 
> When I QT new girls now (I know this is different from your situation) I have them in my 1 gallon that I float in my 33 so that they can clearly see each other for the two weeks that I've got them in there and no harm will be done to them. And then they are much more likely to enter into the sorority at the bottom of the totem pole and not really care much, at least that's been my experience so far.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately i got them and had them with me at home while my 5 girls were at Berry. When I got back I slowly introduced everyone and right now my quarantine tanks are my 2.5's so I cannot float them lol and my 20 long tanks up my entire desk space. 

I did lose my girl Kat the day I had to leave for the airport...I never thought about that until you guys mentioned it actually. I am thinking about putting Paddie back in the tank while I'm gone until Sunday, she is swimming a lot better but her fins are still very clamped. And of course I just found a crack in my tank so I don't want something happening while I'm gone -_-

right now I really don't have a way to separate the girls but maybe its because I'm here or what but no one has been nippy or aggravated with anyone. Of course its been a week so they could have settled themselves already


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Where they in constant sight of each other?
> 
> When I QT new girls now (I know this is different from your situation) I have them in my 1 gallon that I float in my 33 so that they can clearly see each other for the two weeks that I've got them in there and no harm will be done to them. And then they are much more likely to enter into the sorority at the bottom of the totem pole and not really care much, at least that's been my experience so far.
> 
> ...


Also when I quarantined my two first aquabid girls i did have them side by side with Maybelline so they knew each other 2-3 weeks before they went together


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Alrighty then, I'd add them back in, at least Paddie but just keep a hawk's eye on them for the rest of the day to see what happens. It could just merely be the fact of the tank cycling that was stressing them out and causing them to clamp.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Alrighty then, I'd add them back in, at least Paddie but just keep a hawk's eye on them for the rest of the day to see what happens. It could just merely be the fact of the tank cycling that was stressing them out and causing them to clamp.


Ok I'll add her in slowly, and currently I'm not cycling their tank since I don't like the idea of a fish in cycle and I'll be moving in about 2 months to my room for the year so I figured it may be best to just wait. Although I think my 5 gallon cycled survived


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Alrighty then, I'd add them back in, at least Paddie but just keep a hawk's eye on them for the rest of the day to see what happens. It could just merely be the fact of the tank cycling that was stressing them out and causing them to clamp.


Ok so Paddie was fine when added but was stressed. She was swimming around with the rest of the girls and Maybelline was still in hiding  so ill be back Sunday and everyone was fed. I spent 10am to 5 pm in my room watching them and cleaning my room to keep my girls company  


But at least Maybelline's fins looked a little better but not by much :/


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay that's good then  I'm sure they'll be fine for a day ^^


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Okay that's good then  I'm sure they'll be fine for a day ^^


Thank you!! And I will reply to your other awesome posts  I just feel so busy but really just lazy lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ahaha, no problem! I totally understand!

I'm feeling super lazy but it's because we just had a nasty heat wave come up and knock me on my tushie! So I'm super tired after a very exciting day ^^


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ahaha, no problem! I totally understand!
> 
> I'm feeling super lazy but it's because we just had a nasty heat wave come up and knock me on my tushie! So I'm super tired after a very exciting day ^^


Yeah I feel you! I work on grounds crew at college so I get plenty of sun -___- 

Also I just wanted to update you and let you know that both Paddie and Maybelline had gotten worse over the weekend. I have them both in separate 2.5 gallon tanks and my 3rd petco girl is slowly clamping up herself...I don't know if maybe my ammonia readings are way off or maybe those girls aren't as tough?? My red headed girl looks fine but sometimes she just stops and sits there. She doesn't do anything but it seems like she just takes a minute to pause and sometimes it takes a good deal of my finger in her face (waving in front of her) to get her to 'come back'. 

I personally cannot think of a disease since everyone is healthy but I do think that the stress of losing one girl and the reordering of my girls stressed Paddie and Maybelline to the point of sickness. 

Maybelline is very willing to eat but is breathing very heavy where as Paddie seems more come and looks at the food but even her pectorals are clamped up! So she doesn't make much effort to go after the food. I've been feeding them New Life Spectrum mostly and I'm thinking tonight I'll get out the frozen blood worms to make everyone happy. 

Currently the 7 in the 20 look good except my 3rd petco girl whose slowly clamping up (could be because I wasn't home and they were stressed out?). 

My boy, Maximus, is doing great with the snails  I need to head to work so I was going to test the water right after (4:30-5:00 pm) to make sure the cycle actually survived but any who. I will grab my computer so I can actually reply to everything!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ahaha, no problem! I totally understand!
> 
> I'm feeling super lazy but it's because we just had a nasty heat wave come up and knock me on my tushie! So I'm super tired after a very exciting day ^^


Also, I transferred my two sponge filters from my 5 and 10 until my 20. The cycle never took (or as of right now I believe it didn't but I'll test it later). I had the 5 gallon going for a while without a filter and when I added Maximus I out a new one in there and because I was missing my extra strainer and whisper airpump I disconnected one of the sponge filters in my twenty thinking 'It's not doing anything'. Well I just reconnected it and noticed that it had a lot of brown stuff on it. I assume its dirt or alege or whatever but when looking at Tiblu (my 3rd petco girl) I noticed she bad some little particles on her and the water seems to have them. 

I'm not wondering if I should just do a big clean up through out the entire 20 gallon since Maybelline and Paddie are so sickly and they've been in there. I figured if anything maybe I should take the sponges out and clean them out? Any suggestions?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I would do a big water change then since the cycle is kind of "out of town" so to say lol

That way whatever is in the water can pretty much be taken out and you can sort of "start anew". I know you're still busy and all but I reallly realllllly think you should get some plants and do the Silent Cycle so you'll never really have to worry about re-cycling it again.

As for now, I'd keep the sick girls out so that they don't become prey again. It could be that they are weaker because of poor upbringing on Petco's part, the Thai fish just came from their breeders so they've been built up with live foods all their lives and stuff so it's easy to see that they would be "stronger"

But I would leave those girls out for now until they're strong enough again. Can you get plastic-ware from wal-mart, like 2 bucks for a pack of three? That way you can float them in the tank so they can still see the other girls but no one can get hurt? That would be the best bet and change water every other day on them for two weeks so they are all comfortable again. Then release one at a time.

That's pretty much all I can offer at this point :/ I'm sorry :-(


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I would do a big water change then since the cycle is kind of "out of town" so to say lol
> 
> That way whatever is in the water can pretty much be taken out and you can sort of "start anew". I know you're still busy and all but I reallly realllllly think you should get some plants and do the Silent Cycle so you'll never really have to worry about re-cycling it again.
> 
> ...


See I did a huge water change a while back. Should I also rinse the sponges just in case? They defiantly look like they've got stuff on them and I assume that's just all the stuff from my 10 and 5 when they were running. 

The only reason I haven't jumped to cycling my 20 gallon long is because I'll be moving it home around August 8 and then I'll be coming back around August 27 to move back in for the fall and I personally don't know how I'm going to even move it with all the gravel already so leaving some water in there will be like a 4 person moving job lol and sadly I may be on my own moving back home for the 3 weeks but I will have help coming back for the fall. 
I have though been thinking about maybe just separating the girls again and have two sororities?? 5 in one and 4 in another 10 gallon...it'll be a lot of tanks (since I'm going to bring my boy from home and I have Maximus and they'll both be in 5 gallons). 
Also God forbid Maybelline and Paddie don't make it that'll be 7 girls  and I thought about maybe putting them in a 10 gallon (although I do personally want to keep the 20 long because its just so nice and big for all of them! The only problem is the whole cycling part because I honestly don't know how I could transport the 20 gallon with 20-30 pounds of gravel in there -___- I am thinking about taking out some gravel since I got way to excited when putting it all in lol.


But anywho I'll do about a 70% change? I'll wait to hear from you though because if I do go through with that I'll just clean the filters...Maybe I could even put one back into my 5 gallon and hopefully that cycle will start up again?? I am looking into getting lots of plants for my 2 five gallons because they are easy to transport (easier shall I shall I say lol). 

But anywho thank you for your advice!! I always appreciate it! And I would float the girls but right now they're so stressed to the point were I don't know if floating them will be good since I'm worried it would stress them out even with plants in there  I'll get some pictures up later when I actually have my camera with me!


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry I kind of skimmed the first lot of posts, but are two of the females clamped up and one (or both of them) breathing heavily? 

Have you honestly looked at external parasites such as ich/velvet causing the problems. 

Sometimes at the start of the infection, the only place you will see these is on the fin membranes between the rays and around the gills. You really need a bright flashlight to see the cysts at this point, as they are often quite small and easily missed with the naked eye. 

I'm not saying it is definitely this, but external parasites will cause clamping and heavy breathing. They are also easy to miss and often at the beginning of an infection, the fish will still eat and maintain a normal level of activity.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You actually could have all nine (I think you have nine?) girls in the 10 gallon tank, there are people on here who have done that before as long as you've got enough hiding space, they'll be perfectly fine. But I know you still want to keep the 20 long.

Is it possible you can get any Tetra Safe Start? Because that is the only thing I can think of right now that would help this situation. Then your girls would be safe till August and help the cycle start.

I think the filters were doing just fine collecting all the debris from your tank. Do you swish them at each water change? That would help keep them clear of most debris.

And yeah, keep those girls out for now so they can heal up properly. I'm not certain about parasites but I would take LBF's suggestion into consideration at this point just to make sure.

So I think at this point, leave everyone pretty much alone and see how it pans out, keep testing and just do enough water changes to keep the ammonia down so it doesn't stress your girls out even more. Sound alright?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Sorry I kind of skimmed the first lot of posts, but are two of the females clamped up and one (or both of them) breathing heavily?
> 
> Have you honestly looked at external parasites such as ich/velvet causing the problems.
> 
> ...



Yeah both of my girls are clamped but only Maybelline is actually breathing very heavy  

Yeah I have had that thought in the back of my mind espically since my thrid petco betta has slightly clamped up and one of my girls has been just going into a corner and resting or just stops for a little bit. 

Ok I just went over them with my camera flash (yeah I know not the brightest light but i didn't see anything unusual and everyone did look normal). What would be a good method to just make sure without hurting anything? I do have some medication called 'Para Guard', would that be safe to do as a proaction?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, I don't think any of the external parasite medications are very easy on fish. Most contain things like copper, formalin and malachite green, and if you do have an external parasite like ich/velvet involved you are looking at several weeks of treatment due to its life cycle. During this time you usually black out the tank (velvet can photosynthesise and malachite green is light-sensitive) and bump the tank temperature up to around 84 degrees. 

Therefore, you kind of need an actual diagnosis/some evidence of an infection before you decide to go down that path. A lot of people stop ich treatment early believing the parasite is gone and then end up with a re-infection later down the track. 

Are any of your females scratching themselves or showing any abrasions around their heads/gill area?

Unless you can see clear evidence of parasites on your females I probably would not start treatment at this point in time.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> You actually could have all nine (I think you have nine?) girls in the 10 gallon tank, there are people on here who have done that before as long as you've got enough hiding space, they'll be perfectly fine. But I know you still want to keep the 20 long.
> 
> Is it possible you can get any Tetra Safe Start? Because that is the only thing I can think of right now that would help this situation. Then your girls would be safe till August and help the cycle start.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know you can but i feel so bad especially since I have the 20 gallon! lol 

I unfortunately don't have any of the Tetra Safe Start with me but I can order it. Would it help make sure they're not hurt and the cycle happens?

And no I usually don't mess with my sponge filters so when I do a water change tonight I'll go over them with the gravel vacuum to clean them more. And I won't do too much to not over do it.

I have Para Guard but that is it (and maracyn two). So if I can put those in without fully have a diagnosis than I'll do it but I don't wanna hurt anyone! 

That's what I've been doing so I don't mind to keep doing it


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think any of the external parasite medications are very easy on fish. Most contain things like copper, formalin and malachite green, and if you do have an external parasite like ich/velvet involved you are looking at several weeks of treatment due to its life cycle. During this time you usually black out the tank (velvet can photosynthesise and malachite green is light-sensitive) and bump the tank temperature up to around 84 degrees.
> 
> Therefore, you kind of need an actual diagnosis/some evidence of an infection before you decide to go down that path. A lot of people stop ich treatment early believing the parasite is gone and then end up with a re-infection later down the track.
> 
> ...


Yeah I've done research into Ick and velvet but I have to admit I've been trying to not think about it coming after my girls! 

And I really would prefer to wait regardless but the last thing I want to do is put them in harms way and start something that may not be needed at all. 

No my two that were clamped up though would wedge themselves under things like under my silk plant bottoms or between my rocks and caves but they never scratched. I have been watching out for that but I haven't noticed that at all. And I don't see any abrasions either.

I'm just hoping its stress and nothing more (of course nothing would be better than stress but you know :/)


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Here's a video of Maybelline  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReoJocw31DU


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh geez, the poor girl :-( was she the worst out of them?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh geez, the poor girl :-( was she the worst out of them?


Yes, she's the only one breathing that heavy, Paddie is just as clamped as she is but is breathing steady, should I lower the water level in the 2.5 so they don't have to go up and down? Also Maybelline keeps moving around every so often while Paddie has been staying at the surface 

Do you have any idea what could be going on?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes lower the water level.

How does Maybelline move, is it the normal twitchy swim or is it more jerky? If you can give them some sort of leaves or something they can rest on at the surface, that will help them a ton.

And poop since they've been in the 2.5? Have they eaten at all and how's the water temp in both the 2.5 and the 20?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yes lower the water level.
> 
> How does Maybelline move, is it the normal twitchy swim or is it more jerky? If you can give them some sort of leaves or something they can rest on at the surface, that will help them a ton.
> 
> And poop since they've been in the 2.5? Have they eaten at all and how's the water temp in both the 2.5 and the 20?


How low should I go? 

When I saw her move last it looked almost normals but all her find (including pectorals) are clamped so they really don't move much 

I have silk plants so they can sit at the top 


And I believe Maybellinr did I don't know if Paddie did


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Probably about half, so at 1.5 gallons would be fine. But if they've got the silk to sit on, it should be fine at anywhere from 1.5-2 gallons

They're not bloated or anything right? Any discoloration or paleness? If anything, keep feeding them if they'll eat it (take out any they don't eat of course) and you can use 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salt to flush out their systems if they do have internal parasites going on.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Probably about half, so at 1.5 gallons would be fine. But if they've got the silk to sit on, it should be fine at anywhere from 1.5-2 gallons
> 
> They're not bloated or anything right? Any discoloration or paleness? If anything, keep feeding them if they'll eat it (take out any they don't eat of course) and you can use 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salt to flush out their systems if they do have internal parasites going on.


Yeah I have 2 in each so they would have places.

Also all my tanks sit at 80  

No they're not bloated and yes they have lost color, Paddies stress strips are very visible and she's usually a dark blue but now more white  and not from anything but he being so stressed.


I'll put 2 teaspoons in there for them and I'll clean out what's in their tank. Would it be good to do 100% or should I do 20% a day so I don't take them out?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm thinking just very stressed out, if there's no bloating then I wouldn't use the Epsom salt for now. That will just stress them out even more. If you've got lights on, turn them off and cover the tanks with towels or something so that it's completely dark in there for them. That will help with stress levels, also being quiet will help too.

I would just leave them alone for today and see if that helps. And for water changes, I'd just siphon out about 40-50% each day so it doesn't stress them out further


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm thinking just very stressed out, if there's no bloating then I wouldn't use the Epsom salt for now. That will just stress them out even more. If you've got lights on, turn them off and cover the tanks with towels or something so that it's completely dark in there for them. That will help with stress levels, also being quiet will help too.
> 
> I would just leave them alone for today and see if that helps. And for water changes, I'd just siphon out about 40-50% each day so it doesn't stress them out further


Yeah its been since Wednesday and I feel that parasites would have done more damage. And I'll cover their tanks and tell my roommate to make sure not to be too loud...it seems though that yesterday the fire alarms went off....and it happens a lot over the summer because people are cooking....

But anywho I've had them in since yesterday and there is some food at the bottom (in the video) and Maybelline literally just pooped  so when I get back later from work I'll clean it up more.


Here's some videos I got of my girls eating and then Paddie and Maybelline 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyDgiZz6cZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUeODcz-kcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8t5U5hDNcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU9sgxhzsB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7vT0sTbz20


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aww poor Maybelline! She's kind of cute with the whole waddle swimming lol

Okay, poop looks pretty good, a bit stringy though. Okay so I go back now, I would try 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt per gallon for both of them, especially Paddie. But give them a rest for today


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Aww poor Maybelline! She's kind of cute with the whole waddle swimming lol
> 
> Okay, poop looks pretty good, a bit stringy though. Okay so I go back now, I would try 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt per gallon for both of them, especially Paddie. But give them a rest for today


I know!!! She is a complete cutie!! I just really want to make her better! And I just noticed that my two DT are both getting really close to the exact same type of drift wood that Paddie was resting on. So maybe they're ok just really like to cuddle with that drift wood....maybe?

And I'll add the teaspoon later tonight when I get back and yeah I really hope Paddie will be ok! 


And here's a video of my one DT who was worrying me...she's been doing this off and on...

All this is completely upside down...and you may not be able to see it for a second....but here's my other girl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyDgiZz6cZA


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What was the DT doing? I saw the video but that is the same one as one of the ones you had posted before. 

Was it the DT who looked kind of arched? The marble one?

So Paddie is still in the 20 then?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> What was the DT doing? I saw the video but that is the same one as one of the ones you had posted before.
> 
> Was it the DT who looked kind of arched? The marble one?
> 
> So Paddie is still in the 20 then?


My red head DT has been just going into little nooks or small spaces and almost like she's hiding and my marble has done it a few times too do it was worrying me. And Opals find are a little clamped and Tiblues healing fin looks like its got some black on her so I'm not sure if its healing funny or fin rot.

And yes the Marble 

Paddie had passed away last night  Maybelline hasn't improved at all but I lowered her water level and gave he a little bit of fresh water and when reading for ammonia it came back 0 but looked like it was going a little up. She looks interested in food but does move fast enough to go after it  

When I looked at my tank this morning and my real and fake plants looked like they had some white stuff on them (it looked like it was mostly on one plant, my betta bulb plant which had lost 2 leaves from the stem so I threw it away.) 

I'm just worried its all falling apart


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm sorry about Paddie! May she S.I.P. :-(

Going into nooks and crannies are perfectly fine and normal, they're just exploring and finding time for themselves. Just like males they claim a spot as their own and will defend it, that's why it's important to have many places for them to hide in and so they can't see each other all the time, that will stress them out.

Can I get a picture of Tiblue's fins? I could help see if it's rot or not.

And I'd like a picture of the white stuff as well if you can get it. It might be that they're shedding their slime coat and it just got onto the plants. Is there any salt in that tank or medicines? What additives do you put in there (conditioner and others)?

Maybelline will be fine if she doesn't eat everyday, just take out what she doesn't eat.

And what exactly about the marble is worrying you? Just the arching?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm sorry about Paddie! May she S.I.P. :-(
> 
> Going into nooks and crannies are perfectly fine and normal, they're just exploring and finding time for themselves. Just like males they claim a spot as their own and will defend it, that's why it's important to have many places for them to hide in and so they can't see each other all the time, that will stress them out.
> 
> ...



Thank you, I really wish I could have gotten her better  

So it's ok for them to just sit there for a while. Because what they do is just go in head first and just stay there and don't move for a while. 

I'm working until 5 but I'll get all the pictures up right when I get back to my dorm.

I only use water conditioner in there and no salt because of my plants. It could be there slim coat and I did do a big water change yesterday to clean up the tank but to be honest I'm half tempted to just take the girls out this weekend and just clean it completely, or at least get some of the gravel out and clean up and organize the tank a little better. I did have drift wood in there and it became really slimy and it had a coat like stuff coming off of it so I just took it out completely 

And the water conditioner is Get started from Walmart and it may be made by jungle? I've actually been thinking I may need to look into switching brands because I personally don't want to go to Walmart anymore because of the way they lack in taking care of the Bettas


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Jungle brand is fine, I have a few of their conditioners as well but right now I'm using the rest of my API conditioner 

It might be good to rearrange things, you should do that everytime you introduce a new girl because then it makes them pick new territories and sometimes they'll get a little confused too which is what you want to do. And then they'll all settle again with the new girl 

The driftwood naturally get's slime on it when put into the aquarium, mine just finally got rid of it, I think thanks to my pleco though and the snails that I did have who just hung onto that driftwood like there was no tomorrow  Driftwood is good for them though, it naturally lowers the pH a little bit and also provides tannins which helps reduce stress, heal up fins and demotes internal parasites.

And yes, it's fine for them to rest and they will do it often if everything is in order with them  I find have of my girls peeking at me through plants or hiding under the terracotta pot or behind the driftwood. They find things to entertain themselves but their interaction with you is most important.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Jungle brand is fine, I have a few of their conditioners as well but right now I'm using the rest of my API conditioner
> 
> It might be good to rearrange things, you should do that everytime you introduce a new girl because then it makes them pick new territories and sometimes they'll get a little confused too which is what you want to do. And then they'll all settle again with the new girl
> 
> ...



Ok that's good  I'll tell you the exact brand of it when I do get home. I really don't like the idea of having too much chemicals in the tank so I keep it super simple.

Yeah I'm thinking of just taking it down to the gravel kind of renewal lol when I tried to transfer cycle I just transferred EVERYTHING so the stuff and the dirt in the gravel and I keep finding spots that have all of that stuff in it and its kind of nasty :/ so I really want to just take them out and redo the whole thing, I'm thinking this weekend would be nice 

I felt like it really wasn't great and I have to other driftwood pieces that I want to add into the tank, one I haven't used though I'm nervous to just put it in without floating it in something else first, what would you suggest? 

And ok good! I was just getting so nervous  but I do try to spend time with all of them


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

As long as you spend some time with them each day, they'll start to perk up a little more, especially when feeding :-D

You can soak the driftwood in a bucket for a day to get most of the tannins out and then put it into your tank after that. I suggest filling a bucket with HOT tap water for it to soak in 24 hours. Mind you it will stain your water tea colored is all but your girls won't mind and actually it would make it easier because they won't be able to see each other _as_ well so it cuts back a little on the nipping. But no matter what you do, you're going to get that slime stuff. It will go away in a few months when it's replaces with bio-film but there's not much you can do about it. But it's not hurting your water and it's not hurting your girls so I wouldn't worry so much about it 

Yeah, go right for it and rearrange the tank to see what you can do, I feel that trying to cycle it right now is a bit of a lost cause with the old material. Not saying that you shouldn't cycle it, but feel free to rearrange to your heart's content 

And I agree about the chemical thing :-D I just use conditioner as well and that's it, nothing else. Well except Jarvis's 3 gallon, the poor thing is so prone to constipation that I can't give him on pellet without him being constipated so he's got a therapeutic dosage of Epsom in his tank now. But that's it  and that's all you really need too unless medicating for some reason ^_^


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> As long as you spend some time with them each day, they'll start to perk up a little more, especially when feeding :-D
> 
> You can soak the driftwood in a bucket for a day to get most of the tannins out and then put it into your tank after that. I suggest filling a bucket with HOT tap water for it to soak in 24 hours. Mind you it will stain your water tea colored is all but your girls won't mind and actually it would make it easier because they won't be able to see each other _as_ well so it cuts back a little on the nipping. But no matter what you do, you're going to get that slime stuff. It will go away in a few months when it's replaces with bio-film but there's not much you can do about it. But it's not hurting your water and it's not hurting your girls so I wouldn't worry so much about it
> 
> ...


They have started to but I have noticed some things going on and I really am worried that maybe cleaning the whole tank is a better idea :/ but i do finally have pictures and I have them right behind me so they see me a lot  

Yeah I've had it turn my whole tank into a nice dark tea even after letting it sit so I know lol. I don't really have a bucket so if I do change the tank around and empty all the water and clean everything I'll probably just wash it in really hot water and put both of them in the tank (either size ) Ok that's great that it wasn't something wrong with my drift wood! I don't have any snails in there (although now that you mention it Maximus could use more cover...so maybe all my baby bladder snails could use some stuff to slide around on  - I just thought that i think I may have thrown it away -__-) 

I think that way I can clean everything because I thought I saw some stuff on my girls....and yeah I feel like a silent cycle would be the best option with all my girls.

I use Start Right Jungle WITH Natural Aloe Vera lol but I hope he's getting better!! And that he'll hopefully be completely unconstipation sometime soon!! 

Here are pictures of everything








- my plant stem has died so I thought this could be the cause?

This is what my filter looks like









This is the top of the filter...




















Here's what I see on my plant









If you notice Opal in the right top corner she doesn't look so good










Here's Opal:




























Here's Tiblu's fin:






























Let me know if you need more pictures!


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

That looks like velvet to me. Quite a bad infection to by the looks of it. Trademark 'gold dust' by what I can see in the picture. 

I would definitely start treatment with something containing copper. Only thing I have found that will kill velvet off for good. It is heaps nastier than ich.

You want to boost your temperature up, black out the tank completely and start treatment ASAP. Also, things like velvet always look worse before they get better, and never stop treatment early because it looks like the parasite has gone as it has a very complex life cycle.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> That looks like velvet to me. Quite a bad infection to by the looks of it. Trademark 'gold dust' by what I can see in the picture.
> 
> I would definitely start treatment with something containing copper. Only thing I have found that will kill velvet off for good. It is heaps nastier than ich.


Ok that's what I was afraid of  I was hoping maybe it was just stuff from my filter.

What would you recommend? I only have para guard and Maracyn Two and AQ and Epsom salt.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> That looks like velvet to me. Quite a bad infection to by the looks of it. Trademark 'gold dust' by what I can see in the picture.
> 
> I would definitely start treatment with something containing copper. Only thing I have found that will kill velvet off for good. It is heaps nastier than ich.
> 
> You want to boost your temperature up, black out the tank completely and start treatment ASAP. Also, things like velvet always look worse before they get better, and never stop treatment early because it looks like the parasite has gone as it has a very complex life cycle.


Also I'm always good about not mixing water but I do use the same Syphon for all my tanks. Could I possibly spread this to my boy as well? From the Syphon and if so would treatment hurt my snails?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I think copper treatment is harmful to snails, and if you share a siphon it is possible you may have spread it to other tanks. I spread velvet around my whole fish room when I only used to use one bucket and siphon. 

Also, there is some talk that copper can leech from silicone even after treatment has finished. So if your medication contains copper this may be something to keep in mind. 

Looks like para guard (assuming it is the Seachem brand one) really only has malachite green in it. I would look more at medications specifically designed to target external parasites. Velvet is something you don't want to mess around with. It killed a few of my fish before I stopped it.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

And at this point I would treat everyone. Oh and if you can disinfect your siphon that would help too. I use a 1 parts bleach 19 parts water solution if you can find some. Regular Clorox Bleach will do. Of course you kind of need a bucket.

I put the siphon in the bucket, make sure that the solution goes through all the tubing and leave it for 8-10 hours. Rinse out with hot, hot tap water and let soak in a bucket of hot tap water with 4x the amount of conditioner for overnight, I find 12-16 hours after the 8-10 hours is a good time to make sure that it's aquarium safe again. Rinse out a final time and you should be set to go.

I'm sorry your girls got sick :-( It's no fun I know. One of my girls had velvet when I first was QT'ing her, thankfully it was then and not later. And I was able to catch it early and treated with 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon and had the temp bumped up to 87 because I was also fighting Ich in the 33 at that time.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I think copper treatment is harmful to snails, and if you share a siphon it is possible you may have spread it to other tanks. I spread velvet around my whole fish room when I only used to use one bucket and siphon.
> 
> Also, there is some talk that copper can leech from silicone even after treatment has finished. So if your medication contains copper this may be something to keep in mind.
> 
> Looks like para guard (assuming it is the Seachem brand one) really only has malachite green in it. I would look more at medications specifically designed to target external parasites. Velvet is something you don't want to mess around with. It killed a few of my fish before I stopped it.


Is there a way that I can at least take my big boy and some of the bigger babies and move them to their own separate tank? I really really don't want to hurt them at all and don't mind keeping them separated in a 2.5 for forever, as long as I don't put them in harms way intentionally! 
Also of course now that I think about it 1.) I decided to suck on the end of the syphon and got a good deal of water in my mouth (spit it out right away into my dirty water bucket) several times but I doubt anything would happen to me...but in the process of trying to make syphoning less stressful on everyone I know some water got into my empty 20 tall gallon. I got it from a friend and it needs a good clean down but I didn't bother wiping up the water because it was small enough I knew it would evaporate quickly. 

Also I have a bucket that I only use for dirty water. It's a tin type bucket and i use two big plastic bowls to put my fresh new water in. With all of my equipment sitting out to evaporate and dry that way is that ok? Or do I need to just take it all apart?


Do I 100% need copper to treat? Can Maracyn Two be enough if it does treat well? And even AQ salt?

Ok I just got it a while back when someone recommended it. Maybelline doesn't really look like she would have velvet but probably does. 

But in reality I only have Maracyn Two, Para Guard, AQ salt, and Epsom salt so I'd have to wait for anything else to be shipped in to me.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> And at this point I would treat everyone. Oh and if you can disinfect your siphon that would help too. I use a 1 parts bleach 19 parts water solution if you can find some. Regular Clorox Bleach will do. Of course you kind of need a bucket.
> 
> I put the siphon in the bucket, make sure that the solution goes through all the tubing and leave it for 8-10 hours. Rinse out with hot, hot tap water and let soak in a bucket of hot tap water with 4x the amount of conditioner for overnight, I find 12-16 hours after the 8-10 hours is a good time to make sure that it's aquarium safe again. Rinse out a final time and you should be set to go.
> 
> I'm sorry your girls got sick :-( It's no fun I know. One of my girls had velvet when I first was QT'ing her, thankfully it was then and not later. And I was able to catch it early and treated with 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon and had the temp bumped up to 87 because I was also fighting Ich in the 33 at that time.


Will the velvet disease live even after all the water has evaporated? And I'll defiantly disinfect everything. I have a tin bucket that I only use for dirty water, could I use that one to bleach my syphon and to bleach the bucket? 

I have two and I am going to say its safe to say I used both (I have to admit the small one came from someone else and I never really cleaned it that well...) 

Can I fight velvet with AQ salt?? And Maracyn Two or one after the other?? That would be awesome because I honestly don't want to get into the too harmful stuff but I don't want to slack on my girls either! Should I go ahead and start raising the temperature to make it to 84 degrees?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Ok so this is what someone else recommended, I'm raising my girls temperature for right now and Maybelline is still breathing but not looking great. I wanna make sure that whatever I do for her it won't kill her so I would really like you guys advice before treating her. 

I would like to start with Maracyn Two in my sorority just so I can start attacking whatever this is. And since the person suggested with the salt that you would need to do 100% water changes I thought the Maracyn Two would be less stressful until I got something else. I was looking into ordering Maracide or Coppersafe but to be honest I really do prefer the idea of AQ salt. I'm hoping to get out of lab early enough so I can start everything today but like I said I would like a second opinion before I start doing anything. I really don't want to start something that I don't finish or start doing the wrong type of treatment. 

Here's what she said:

You have velvet I do so believe 
I read the sticky, you treat it like ich... I cannot properly quote (so sorry) since I'm on my phone but this is what it says
"•Treatment: You can treat Ick either conservatively or with medication. Ick is a parasite. Because ick is contagious, it is preferable to treat the whole tank when one fish is found to have it. Ick is temperature sensitive: Leave your betta in the community tank and raise temperature to 85 F. Then you can choose to treat with salt or medication. Conservative: Add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Perform daily 100% water changes to remove fallen parasites before they can reproduce. Replace the water with the right amount of salt. Do not continue this treatment for more than 14 days. If it fails or you do not want to use salt, treat with Jungle’s Parasite Clear, API Super Ick Cure, or Kordon Rid Ich Plus. If your betta lives in a jar/bowl, then it can be difficult to heat the water. There are heaters for smaller containers, but you can also float the quarantine container in a larger heated tank during treatment. Do a full water change every day and add an appropriate amount of medication to the water. "


Please let me know, my girls temperature is around 82-83 and I'm slowly increasing it now.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes you can treat with Aquarium salt. I'd start the 3 teaspoons per gallon right away on your sorority. Velvet is highly contagious so if one has it, they all potential have it.

You don't have to do a 100% everyday but at least some big water change is going to help, I usually suggest/do 50% if it's a rather large tank. 50% is better than nothing so if that's what you can do, start right away. And then just keep an eye on how many gallons you take out so that you can replace the salt amount.

I do prefer the salt method as well but your girl has a very advanced stage of velvet, not saying you can't cure it, but it's going to take a while and some dedicated water changes. It's going to be a pain but better safe than sorry, right?

And yes, get that temp right up to 85-86 and you should be good for that part. Keep all lights off and if you can throw towels over the tank that would be best. Velvet multiplies with light so any light that's getting in is helping it. And then you can take them off for your water change, throw them back on when you're done.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yes you can treat with Aquarium salt. I'd start the 3 teaspoons per gallon right away on your sorority. Velvet is highly contagious so if one has it, they all potential have it.
> 
> You don't have to do a 100% everyday but at least some big water change is going to help, I usually suggest/do 50% if it's a rather large tank. 50% is better than nothing so if that's what you can do, start right away. And then just keep an eye on how many gallons you take out so that you can replace the salt amount.
> 
> ...


Ok so I can order something stronger for velvet while I'm doing salt treatments. When I get back to my room I'll go ahead and add 1teaspoon per gallon. And when I get off of work I'll do another adding of salt at 5 pm and then around 7-8 I'll add the third amount of salt. 

Now since I know salt will kill my snail I'll take him out and move him to his own tank...he just laid like 30 eggs yesterday and this morning while I was scouting how many babies I could successfully rescue they had all disappeared 0_o so I don't know what happened. 

Also so 50% if 20 is 10 gallon so when I add fresh water I put 10 teaspoons of AQ salt to make sure the amount doesn't go down? And how do I know when it's gone? 

But Maxmius seems fine but I don't know what to do about Maybelline? Would that be a killer for her? The salt treatment that is?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

They probably hatched in which case you're not going to see them for a few days but the salt will kill them yes. So take out your boy and you can leave him in a separate bowl for a few days, put some saran wrap over it or something so he can't get out. He could also be carrying velvet so I don't want to spread it around to Maximus if he does have it.

The salt treatment is a cure of Velvet, if the salt works you won't need medicines. Oh also take out any live plants, AQ salt will destroy them as well.

And yes you can add the same in those time incriments, make sure to dissolve it first. I use a small cup, take some tank water, measure out your teaspoons and mix it or swirl it around. Pour in over a few minutes, not all at once.

Salt does not evaporate so you'd take it out physically with a water change, that's why you need to re-add salt after you do a water change.

And because you're doing 3 teaspoons per gallon, when you add in the new 10 gallons of water you'll be putting 30 teaspoons into that. Yeah it's a lot but it's what's needed and it will be cheaper in the long run than medications but then there's the con of it not working as fast as a medication might. So it's kind of a catch 22 in a sense.

I would do 2 teaspoons of salt for Maybelline as well, you'll need to do a 100% water change for her, I think you'd put in Epsom salt yesterday? Sorry, can't remember >.< but if you didn't put in the salt,then you can just add 2 teaspoons per gallon.

and so for the 20 gallon, for a total amount of teaspoons, you'll be using 60 teaspoons of AQ salt. You might have to run out to get a new bag of salt in which case. I found you can also use Rock salt if you find one that is purely NaCl with no caking additives or anything like that. just pure rock salt. i don't know if it's cheaper or not since I haven't looked into it fully yet, but it's a just fyi.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> They probably hatched in which case you're not going to see them for a few days but the salt will kill them yes. So take out your boy and you can leave him in a separate bowl for a few days, put some saran wrap over it or something so he can't get out. He could also be carrying velvet so I don't want to spread it around to Maximus if he does have it.
> 
> The salt treatment is a cure of Velvet, if the salt works you won't need medicines. Oh also take out any live plants, AQ salt will destroy them as well.
> 
> ...


Oh no no my bigger snails that were maybe a month or two old are usually all over the place and this morning I saw maybe 1 so I doubt Maximus touches them but I don't know :/ I have a fish bowl I was thinking about putting them in along with my live plants??? Or do I need to throw away all my live plants??

He's with Maximus so I guess if one has it the other does, would is kill my snail as well? And if all of them go into a fish bowl there won't be a heater so I'm guessing my plants may die and I don't know how my snails would do??

Ok so right now I'm trying to hurry and add in 20 teaspoons for the first patch (not hurrying to acclimate them to the salt but just trying to get it to dissolve. I'm using one of their betta cups).

I never did put Epsom salt in and her water level is to about half so 1.2 gallons? Should I raise it but up to the full 2.5 gallons? And I'll go ahead and add a teaspoon for her in her small tank. As for Maximus he seems ok and I'm currently trying to get my bowl out of storage for my snails so I'll add 4-5 teaspoons of AQ salt for him too once I get my boy and a few of his babies out.

I'm actually going to order some off amazon.com since I know i'll be running low :/ 

Anymore suggestions? And thank you so SO SO much for helping me!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Also the problem is, Maximus's tank is ALL live plants and I have Paddie's old plants but I haven't had time to bleach them and make sure they're all clean and I don't want to move anyone else's plants around in case he's free of anything. What should i do??


I also haven't removed any live plants from my sorority and I'm slowly adding in the salt now. I only have 5 teaspoons of AQ salt in my cup to dissolve for the girls so I'm working slowly.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't know the effect of velvet on snails or if they can even get it, I was just wondering about transmitting it was all. You'd have to ask someone else about that, I'm not quite experienced in snails yet 

The plants will be fine in the fish bowl, You can do a bleach dip for them to remove any unwanted parasites or to disinfect them. We can do that later though, I'll give you the procedure if you want.

As for now, I would just do 1 teaspoon per gallon on Maximus and Maybelline, you can keep her waterline at 1.5 if she's still having trouble swimming or anything. If she's not, you can raise it up to the 2.5 if you like. Try shining the light on Maybelline to see if she has any gold dust on her too, if she does then you can increase the salt to 3 teaspoons per gallon but for now 1 teaspoon will do so you can conserve it for your 20.

The plants will be fine as far as no heater, you can always float it in one of the tanks to keep the plants and snails warm. Oh also, you can take those plants out of the pots, it would be better so they can root and grow properly. Those cottony stuff in there, it's not harmful to the fish, but it's not really meant to be in there long term is all  Oh and as far as Maximus's plants....well you can just stuff them all into the fish bowl? It's alright if some are sticking out or whatever, any container will do. It should only be no more than 10-14 day process and they can go back into them.

I'm glad to help as I'm sure other's are too! You have such a beautiful sorority and I would be so sad to see any more of them pass :-(!!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I don't know the effect of velvet on snails or if they can even get it, I was just wondering about transmitting it was all. You'd have to ask someone else about that, I'm not quite experienced in snails yet
> 
> The plants will be fine in the fish bowl, You can do a bleach dip for them to remove any unwanted parasites or to disinfect them. We can do that later though, I'll give you the procedure if you want.
> 
> ...


Ok I'm keeping him and his babies in their own little class flower container lol 
I don't know where my fish bowl went to :/ I believe I threw the horrible thing away -__- but I'll have all my sorority plants in there with my snail. I just don't know what to do about Maximus's plants because I don't have anything else in there for him to use as cover so he'll just have him and a sponge filter....because I did rinse Paddie's plants but nothing serious and I don't have any left overs  

Here's Maybelline http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSxJgVhbCXk

And I'll do the plant thing sometime this weekend so I'd love to have it but right now I'm just worried about my ladies and gentlemen!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay I don't see any velvet on Maybelline but I'd keep her water down to the 1.5 then since it looks like she's still having some troubles. I'd still put 1.5 teaspoons of salt in there for her, it might help with her fin clamping as well in case she does have a spot or two of velvet.

Maximum will be fine without plant cover if he's got any signs of velvet. I mean, you can not treat him right now and see if he get's worse over the next few days. But if he's swimming, eating and pooping fine I wouldn't worry to much about him. Just shine a light every now and then to see if you see any gold dust. I would keep all lights off for now to start killing off the parasites.

Yeah I gave my bowls away to my LFS that recently set up shop again, she was being forced to use 2 liter soda bottle bottoms for cups for the Betta's because she didn't have cups, she also had one in a specimen container so she was grateful to have the two bowls. I had happy to see them gone lol even though they were still being used for betta's, it was better than being in a specimen box XD


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Okay I don't see any velvet on Maybelline but I'd keep her water down to the 1.5 then since it looks like she's still having some troubles. I'd still put 1.5 teaspoons of salt in there for her, it might help with her fin clamping as well in case she does have a spot or two of velvet.
> 
> Maximum will be fine without plant cover if he's got any signs of velvet. I mean, you can not treat him right now and see if he get's worse over the next few days. But if he's swimming, eating and pooping fine I wouldn't worry to much about him. Just shine a light every now and then to see if you see any gold dust. I would keep all lights off for now to start killing off the parasites.
> 
> Yeah I gave my bowls away to my LFS that recently set up shop again, she was being forced to use 2 liter soda bottle bottoms for cups for the Betta's because she didn't have cups, she also had one in a specimen container so she was grateful to have the two bowls. I had happy to see them gone lol even though they were still being used for betta's, it was better than being in a specimen box XD



Ok I do have salt in there for Maybelline and I raised her temperature up a degree or two. 

Here's a video of Maximus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up3ltWemqus it may not be ready just yet since i just uploaded it 

I actually don't have any space for my plants in the bowl so if I can leave them in there and take them out as they die I personally don't mind. He's doing fine but when video taping him I thought he looked funny. And also since I've owned him he glows a nice gold color so I'm of course guessing telling if its velvet could possibly be hard?

I actually found it tucked away in a little corner lol so now all my snails that I got out are in there, I just hate putting my others at risk  but I cannot find them all!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hmm he looks fine to me, albeit a little twitchy but my Dragon PK does that too. I think he's fine for now. You can also let your plants rest in some regular tap water to help sterilize them, it won't get rid of everything but it will help and then they can go in with Max after a few days. But if you don't want to you can leave them in. Some might be strong enough to withstand the salt but most will die.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Hmm he looks fine to me, albeit a little twitchy but my Dragon PK does that too. I think he's fine for now. You can also let your plants rest in some regular tap water to help sterilize them, it won't get rid of everything but it will help and then they can go in with Max after a few days. But if you don't want to you can leave them in. Some might be strong enough to withstand the salt but most will die.


Yeah I have been slowly adding AQ salt and currently I have just a little bit left before I can say I've put in a whole 5 teaspoons in. And I think I'll leave the plants alone for now and just see how he does, should I bleach the Syphon before using it? Or after the 14 or so days?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Bleach it after the treatment is done, no sense in doing it now when it's going right back in there tomorrow


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Bleach it after the treatment is done, no sense in doing it now when it's going right back in there tomorrow


Yeah that's what I figured lol and would it be ok to use my tin bucket to bleach both of them? Also should I bleach (once its all over) my two plastic bowls I use for clean water just to make sure?? I don't use them for dirty water at all and I do know that plastic can hold on to chemicals so I don't know if it would be a great idea but I wouldn't want to not do it and then regret it. But then I don't wanna do it and then regret that too -___- lol

Also right now I'm adding more salt for the girls, I currently have a towel on the top and two pieces of paper towels on the side









So hopefully this will help some!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh good! Yep that looks good ^_^ poor girls though, it sucks being sick I know!

And yes you can bleach anything, it's not a potent solution so that's why it's good for disinfecting things. I even do that with gravel when apparently you're not supposed to because it sort of porous but I've never had a problem. I just do a few more rinses and soak a little longer in the 4x conditioned water is all


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh good! Yep that looks good ^_^ poor girls though, it sucks being sick I know!
> 
> And yes you can bleach anything, it's not a potent solution so that's why it's good for disinfecting things. I even do that with gravel when apparently you're not supposed to because it sort of porous but I've never had a problem. I just do a few more rinses and soak a little longer in the 4x conditioned water is all


Yeah I hate it for them 

Oh I will do that when the time comes!  and should i do the water change everyday at 8-9? Or more like noon? Since I started adding salt at noon?

I guess maybe its more of a personal choice lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah that's personal choice, whenever you have time! As long as it's everyday :-D


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah that's personal choice, whenever you have time! As long as it's everyday :-D


Ok awesome  so I will be adding my last patch of salt for the girls in about 1-2 hours depending on when I get back. Everyone seems ok, I never added the rest of the salt for Maximus but it was maybe a teaspoon or 2 that didn't go in and hopefully whatever snails are in there will be ok. I'll do a water change tomorrow though and go from there. I did notice the sides of his tank is dirty so I thought about doing a 100% (also being about to pick up the rest of my snails) and giving it a good scrub down. Does that sound like a good idea since I would kind of need to use my Syphon for him or do you think I should be more careful? I could also go to walmart and buy a new Syphon just for him until the girls get better and then maybe to be on the safe side, throw the old one away?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Pretty sure if you let something exposed to velvet dry out completely for a week or so, the parasite can't survive and dies off. 

I personally would purchase a new siphon. I now have at least six or so buckets and siphons to divide between my tanks because cross-contamination has always been a very big concern for me.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Pretty sure if you let something exposed to velvet dry out completely for a week or so, the parasite can't survive and dies off.
> 
> I personally would purchase a new siphon. I now have at least six or so buckets and siphons to divide between my tanks because cross-contamination has always been a very big concern for me.


Until I found out that Maximus was a boy >_< (aquabid seller is very nice and it was an honest mistake) I had only one tank. I do have separate buckets/bowls. Two plastic bowls for fresh water and then a tin bucket my mom got for me lol. So when Kat passed away everything went down hill and I was so busy with a wedding and school I didn't really sit down to look at my girls until I noticed the rust dust while taking pictures :/

And should I buy a new one now or wait until a few days? I'll get a new one for Maximus but should I also get a new one for the girls or just wait a few days for them?


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Hey! So here's some of the pictures I took today (I turned the light on so that I could see if I saw anything on the girls). Maybelline is doing wonderful and her tail fin is starting to unclamp!! 

Also I took out the filters because they went from brown to white and they were very dirty. Here's a picture:



























Opal











DT red head 











Ceylon



















Tiblu (she ate a little too much..)



















My other EE girl


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah that's personal choice, whenever you have time! As long as it's everyday :-D


Also after every use I put the syphon under hot water and let it run through for a minute or do and then I hang it up to dry. Can I use it for Maximus's tank or would that be too risky? I went to go get a new one and couldn't find any


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Also the tank smells HORRIBLE I don't know if its the salt or what but it really is not something I want to smell!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Uhh not to certain about the smell but fish tanks don't always smell like pretty flowers even if you've got live plants XD It's most likely your plants rotting in the salt though if anything.

And the filters would be fine if you just took out the foam to give a squeeze and swish in old tank water, they're going to get dirty so that's not a worry at this point.

Girls look good, glad Maybelline is doing better! Just keep the lights off and continue with the salt and the daily changes and you should be good! :-D


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Uhh not to certain about the smell but fish tanks don't always smell like pretty flowers even if you've got live plants XD It's most likely your plants rotting in the salt though if anything.
> 
> And the filters would be fine if you just took out the foam to give a squeeze and swish in old tank water, they're going to get dirty so that's not a worry at this point.
> 
> Girls look good, glad Maybelline is doing better! Just keep the lights off and continue with the salt and the daily changes and you should be good! :-D


Ok so I am thinking that the salt+my tin bucket = bad smell so thankfully it wasn't the tank! But anywho the girls are doing well and I made a short little video to show how they're doing. I haven't changed Maximus or Maybelline's water yet since I'm nervous about transferring anything with the syphon so please let me know. I'll go out again to look for more syphons but just in case I cannot find it.

And I just ended up cleaning it in the sink to start a new since there was no cycle :/ but now I have one in there and the other is currently still drying out  but yes thankfully everyone is ok so far!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh right, forgot about the siphons.

For now if you can't find any other siphons you can get some airline tubing to siphon out Maybellines, it will be slower but it works, just have to suck on the end of it to get it going, just doesn't work as well if Maximus has gravel. If he's got sand then that should be fine, just swirl it around to kick up the debris and suck it up


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh right, forgot about the siphons.
> 
> For now if you can't find any other siphons you can get some airline tubing to siphon out Maybellines, it will be slower but it works, just have to suck on the end of it to get it going, just doesn't work as well if Maximus has gravel. If he's got sand then that should be fine, just swirl it around to kick up the debris and suck it up


Ok I used a cup today and I did Maybelline's when she was swimming around a little better (I think that means she's at least ok enough to be cupped until I'm done!) And I guess it would be a bad idea to use my old syphon for Maximus?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm not sure if it would be bad, but I wouldn't recommend it. He can go a few days without a water change, it won't hurt him unless of course he's got Velvet but I don't think that's the case


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm not sure if it would be bad, but I wouldn't recommend it. He can go a few days without a water change, it won't hurt him unless of course he's got Velvet but I don't think that's the case


Yeah thankfully he seems clean  the only thing is that when I had just my snails I didn't bother to keep it that clean so even the sides look dirty so I really want to just empty it, rinse, and then put everything and one back in. And he 5 wasn't easy to move but it was too hard either so I'm debating whether I should try to go ahead and cycle it and keep Maximus and the snails in my spare 5.5...or cycle the 5.5 and move at least Macimus and keep my snails in the 5? I'm thinking of bringing my other boy from home when fall comes around so I figured I'd set up a 5 for him since he lives in a bookshelf tank (which I doubt I'll have room for). 


But anywho long story short things are brightening up so now the next step is to get Maximus a cleaner home and start working on at least cycling a tank


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Great! :-D

So he's in the 5 gallon and you have another 5.5 that you want to start up?

Mind as well do a 100% on Maximus's tank, just keep your filter wet and all to keep the cycle going and it should be fine ^_^ It would be a nice weekend task I think.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Great! :-D
> 
> So he's in the 5 gallon and you have another 5.5 that you want to start up?
> 
> Mind as well do a 100% on Maximus's tank, just keep your filter wet and all to keep the cycle going and it should be fine ^_^ It would be a nice weekend task I think.


Yeah, I had thought about maybe adopting a baby after I'd prepared a tank and everything but I may just take my boy from home since my sister doesn't remember to do water changes so he'll go weeks before someone does. I even brought my ammonia test with me to show her (it was .25-.50 ppm) and she still doesn't stay on top of it -__-

His isn't cycled either  so currently I went from 2 cycled tanks to 0  but once we conquer velvet I'll be attempting a silent cycle  the only problem is that transporting the 20 will be hell. Excuse my language. 

And it is an exciting thing for me at least lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah okay ^_^ yeah I think you should definitely bring your other boy up so he stays nice and clean and happy too!

You'll just have lots of baggies of gravel and cups of plants to travel with is all lol I'm pretty certain that you can get some plastic-ware, fill half of it with some water and stuff most of the plants in there and they'd be fine for the ride home. I'd use those for gravel as well since baggies would probably break easier and a pack of three plastic containers at wal-mart is only about a dollar something which is nice :-D


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ah okay ^_^ yeah I think you should definitely bring your other boy up so he stays nice and clean and happy too!
> 
> You'll just have lots of baggies of gravel and cups of plants to travel with is all lol I'm pretty certain that you can get some plastic-ware, fill half of it with some water and stuff most of the plants in there and they'd be fine for the ride home. I'd use those for gravel as well since baggies would probably break easier and a pack of three plastic containers at wal-mart is only about a dollar something which is nice :-D


Yeah my only worry is how will he do for the 4 hour drive :/ I have found that any betta that is either in or sits in a bad in a dark blue cup is relatively calm  so I'd have to make sure to get stuff for him. 

Well what i did with my 5 and 10 is just tape plastic bags on top of them and transport them with 20% water in them. 

Also my plan was after the 14 day treatment I was going to do the 100% water change and I was wondering if by then it would be safe to take some of the girls gravel and put it in with Maximus?

Here's a video. I just realized that I think Maximus has a huge cut/open wound on his head -___- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTHy3V0KZRY

Also how have you been?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh cuts are easy! They're my favorite to heal lol that sounds weird XD

Just use Stress Coat and then he will heal over the next few days. So there's no chance you've got any airline tubing to siphon out his tank a little? Since you are using the siphon for the girls everyday I wouldn't use it for him. Even after the 14 day treatment I wouldn't use that gravel for his tank for another week or so just to absolutely make sure. I mean, if he get's it he get's it and now you know how to treat it, but of course it would be a lot easier if he didn't get velvet.

And yes, when traveling with Betta's now I always keep their cups in a brown paper bag so they don't split over and so they stay dark in there and calm :-D

And I've been good! Busy but good! I feel like I've got aboslutely no money o.o I'm working three jobs but one I just started so I won't be paid until next Friday >.< and then my other two side jobs are house-sitting every week for two days and occasional pet setting but all that money I make there goes right to gas for my truck! and repairs >.> the darn engine light came on today and I hit a curb with my tire, surprised it didn't go flat and the other front tire has a leak. 

Oy so in the real life, things aren't great but in my fishy world everyone's doing wonderful! Rembrandt (the one in my avvie) is doing so well, his tail finally healed up after three months when he bit it and tore it to shreds! I was looking at him the other day and man, his tail has grown so much! I'm surprised he's not a chronic tail biter which of course makes me happy about that ^_^ But from my avatar it's extended another .25-.50% more, I've got pictures of most everyone in my newest thread: Updates and Pictures in the Betta pictures section if you wanted to see everyone :-D


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh cuts are easy! They're my favorite to heal lol that sounds weird XD
> 
> Just use Stress Coat and then he will heal over the next few days. So there's no chance you've got any airline tubing to siphon out his tank a little? Since you are using the siphon for the girls everyday I wouldn't use it for him. Even after the 14 day treatment I wouldn't use that gravel for his tank for another week or so just to absolutely make sure. I mean, if he get's it he get's it and now you know how to treat it, but of course it would be a lot easier if he didn't get velvet.
> 
> ...




He's always swimming back and forth and kind of violent and I was going to possibly put Paddie's old plants in there. They've been sitting on the floor right beside my desk for a week now and I thought it I rinse them one more time in hot water they should be good? I really wanna get him more cover but I don't have to money to buy real plants (and I'd like to have a cycled tank before buying any). I think that's how he hurt his head (and also since i cannot fit my regular top I have a horrifyingly ugly metal top for reptiles type thing and I think he might have jumped and hit his head  )

Well I need to go to the petstore and remember I'm looking for a syphon lol but I have just been cupping it out lol if anything I'm looking on amazon now for one because I wanted to get the girls more caves (I love how they enjoy swimming through them!!) I also don't have stress coat so I'm just letting him heal his self with the aid of clean water, hopefully that's enough!


That's a nice idea!


Oh gosh that sucks i'm so sorry! Yeah for me all my money is going to my horses and i just found out that we don't work Saturdays during the summer so instead of being able to possibly work 30 hours a week I can only work 24 maximum because of school and I'm on minimum wage 7.25 and i don't know how much taxes they tank out :/ so I love having Peter here but when I bring him home my bills will go from 550 to 400 so I'm excited to at least have some money left over for when he gets back here -___- lol I do love him though and his little brother and my fish so I don't mind too much.

That's so awesome to hear!! I'll go look now! And also I was wondering how fast pectoral fins grow? I would love to see Ceylon, Opal, and Venus's fins come back nice and strong because i saw a picture of them when I first got them 0__0 gosh those were some sexy pectoral fins!! But anywho I am very glad that your fishy life is going amazing!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ventral or Pectoral fins? Oh right, your EE's right? They grow like any other fin so with warm, clean water and some Stress Coat (that's next on your list after a siphon haha) and time they'll heal up. They may not be exactly as they were in your picture because there will always be nipping in a sorority, but they can grow out again.

And for Maximus, lower his water level so he doesn't even try to hit the top again, that would definitely help. He'll heal over a few days anyway without the Stress Coat, Stress Coat just makes him heal up faster is all. But he'll do fine without it providing his water is clean and warm which it should be, even if you're doing water changes by cups.

If you do the cup method, try stirring the bottom up so that you can scoop out as much debris as you can. And Paddie's plants should be fine to use now if they've been out a week.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ventral or Pectoral fins? Oh right, your EE's right? They grow like any other fin so with warm, clean water and some Stress Coat (that's next on your list after a siphon haha) and time they'll heal up. They may not be exactly as they were in your picture because there will always be nipping in a sorority, but they can grow out again.
> 
> And for Maximus, lower his water level so he doesn't even try to hit the top again, that would definitely help. He'll heal over a few days anyway without the Stress Coat, Stress Coat just makes him heal up faster is all. But he'll do fine without it providing his water is clean and warm which it should be, even if you're doing water changes by cups.
> 
> If you do the cup method, try stirring the bottom up so that you can scoop out as much debris as you can. And Paddie's plants should be fine to use now if they've been out a week.


Yeah my EE girls and I just wanted to make sure they would grow back lol 


Also can I use Paddies old silk plants for Maximis since I rinsed them and they've been sitting out for a week or more?

And I'll get the stress coat along with the Syphon  can you send me a picture of what the stress coat you use looks like? 

And I just cup the tip but only because I need to get a Syphon. I only use it when emptying my tanks


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, said you could use her plants lol

And my Stress Coat is just the one at Wal-mart, any API brand is fine and you can get either regular Stress Coat or Stress Coat Plus, both pretty much do the same thing. As long as it says Aloe Vera on it, you can use either one or the other


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup, said you could use her plants lol
> 
> And my Stress Coat is just the one at Wal-mart, any API brand is fine and you can get either regular Stress Coat or Stress Coat Plus, both pretty much do the same thing. As long as it says Aloe Vera on it, you can use either one or the other


Oh sorry I was reading too fast lol 

Ok I'll defiantly put that one the list! And also, Ceylon is very large. I don't really know what an 'eggy' female looks like verses a constipated one but I'm thinking she wouldn't constipated especially with all the salt, right? 

And of course someone said if they don't release their eggs...they pass away... 0_0


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Here's some pictures of Ceylon


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah she looks eggy to me. See how her stomach is more flat than rounded? That's a sign. And no they won't pass away if they withhold their eggs. If they are not healthy, and when I say healthy I don't mean tip top shape, I just mean they aren't on the floor dying, then they will either reabsorb their eggs or release them but it still takes time.

AQ salt makes them retain water and fluids whereas Epsom salt is a laxative so it releases fluids. It could be possible they are retaining fluid but it's not inhibiting them and they need that velvet gone more than they need to poop at the moment.

Are they in sight of any males? it is also possible that she see's her reflection and thinks it's a male,that's happened before. And then becomes eggy but she'll be fine either way


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah she looks eggy to me. See how her stomach is more flat than rounded? That's a sign. And no they won't pass away if they withhold their eggs. If they are not healthy, and when I say healthy I don't mean tip top shape, I just mean they aren't on the floor dying, then they will either reabsorb their eggs or release them but it still takes time.
> 
> AQ salt makes them retain water and fluids whereas Epsom salt is a laxative so it releases fluids. It could be possible they are retaining fluid but it's not inhibiting them and they need that velvet gone more than they need to poop at the moment.
> 
> Are they in sight of any males? it is also possible that she see's her reflection and thinks it's a male,that's happened before. And then becomes eggy but she'll be fine either way


She doesn't see him and shouldn't see her reflection so I don't know :/

Yeah I forgot that AQ salt did that -_- so i shouldn't be worried though? (sorry for being short, its too late/early in the morning lol)


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Nope, she's not bloated from the salt because it would then be more rounded and bulge more out on the side. Her lips would get a bit swollen too but since she's more boxy then she's just eggy. After this treatment you can do a low regimen of Epsom to help release all fluids.

It's possible she could also mistake another girl for a male as well, sometimes they just get confused lol but it's nothing to worry about


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Nope, she's not bloated from the salt because it would then be more rounded and bulge more out on the side. Her lips would get a bit swollen too but since she's more boxy then she's just eggy. After this treatment you can do a low regimen of Epsom to help release all fluids.
> 
> It's possible she could also mistake another girl for a male as well, sometimes they just get confused lol but it's nothing to worry about


Ok good! She's not swimming very well but she is trying, poor girl  oddly enough I REALLY want to breed her to Maximus...darn velvet... 

She might have or who knows maybe she knew of my wants to keep her genetics going lol 

But I'm glad that it's nothing to be concerned with!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol yes, I saw your other post about breeding! I really wish you could breed Iris but with the bent spine it's definitely not a good idea as Indjo pointed out (might have gotten the name wrong) But Ceylon would certainly be a good candidate, they would make beautiful babies! By that time I might have room for another male so if you needed homes, I could certain take either male or female ^_^


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Lol yes, I saw your other post about breeding! I really wish you could breed Iris but with the bent spine it's definitely not a good idea as Indjo pointed out (might have gotten the name wrong) But Ceylon would certainly be a good candidate, they would make beautiful babies! By that time I might have room for another male so if you needed homes, I could certain take either male or female ^_^


Yeah same here! 

But right now I'm panicking because Ceylon is pine coning!! I've moved her to my 5.5 that's about 40% full and I'm thinking i'll put 2 teaspoons of Epsom salt in there to hopefully get her to use the bathroom!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

AHHHH! What?!?!

Pictures please? You can up the dosage to 3 teaspoons after an hour or so, hopefully that can help bring her back down!!! Oh geez, it's one thing right after the other huh? Well I hope something good is happening in school because it looks like you need it!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> AHHHH! What?!?!
> 
> Pictures please? You can up the dosage to 3 teaspoons after an hour or so, hopefully that can help bring her back down!!! Oh geez, it's one thing right after the other huh? Well I hope something good is happening in school because it looks like you need it!


That's what I said!! I almost just rushed to work instead of check up on everyone and here's the thread I started http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2320290#post2320290

Right now I'm just letting her swim around because when I cupped her and then slowly acclimated her to the water I could clearly see the AQ salt coming into the new water SO I don't know if its a good idea to do Epsom salt now?? I was going to maybe give her a little more water and possibly take out some so I could add the Epsom salt but someone just told me to do Maracyn 2?

And not to sound like the pity train but I got a 68 on my last exam and I need an 80 or above  but at least my quizzes and homework grades are in the 80-100's but really this whole week I feel like I've been rushed and I wanted to move Ceylon yesterday or the day before but really she just looked eggy and I didn't feed her...and of course this morning she got 2 pellets before I saw her fully so I REALLY hope I didn't just send her to her death bed!! 


Also that would be awesome if you wanted a baby or two  I really was going to try Ceylon (although one breeder told me that she had several 'mistakes' that would take several generations to fix and it wouldn't be a good idea because if I sold them then there's a chance her genes would mix into the gene pool and he also said I would have to cull a lot of babies to make sure that I kept only the best of the pair so I don't know :/ half of me can do it but the other half says 'They're still alive and breathing and thinking and feeling!!' so I don't know


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Commented on it 

As I said, she doesn't look too far gone so you might be able to save her, but keep in mind that dropsy is generally an internal organ failure and that's usually not able to be helped :-( But don't give up hope yet, there's still a chance!

As for everyone else you can go up to the 10 day mark and you can gradually take out the AQ salt. So just do a 30-40% change to take out some of the salt and just put in clean new water after 10 days to start declining the dosage. Do that until you've done the equivalent to a 100% change so 3 days should be good enough  Then you can put lights back on and gradually decrease the temp as well. I'd keep the temp around 78 instead of 80 if that's what you had it at before. Higher temps usually invite bacterial infections so 78 is a nice temp right in the middle  However if you feel more comfortable you can keep it at 80 or whatever you had it at before.


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Commented on it
> 
> As I said, she doesn't look too far gone so you might be able to save her, but keep in mind that dropsy is generally an internal organ failure and that's usually not able to be helped :-( But don't give up hope yet, there's still a chance!
> 
> As for everyone else you can go up to the 10 day mark and you can gradually take out the AQ salt. So just do a 30-40% change to take out some of the salt and just put in clean new water after 10 days to start declining the dosage. Do that until you've done the equivalent to a 100% change so 3 days should be good enough  Then you can put lights back on and gradually decrease the temp as well. I'd keep the temp around 78 instead of 80 if that's what you had it at before. Higher temps usually invite bacterial infections so 78 is a nice temp right in the middle  However if you feel more comfortable you can keep it at 80 or whatever you had it at before.


Thank you  

Yeah she doesn't look too bad and she's currently 'sitting' beside me while I type this (She, Opal, and Maybelline are like my little babies  and of course my other girls are warming up to me too  ). 

And I'll do that, today makes 8 days. Should i maybe stop at 9 instead of 10 or should i just keep it going? But I'll defiantly do that and keep their temperature around 78  

i want to say you help me so much and i'm so sorry I don't say this more often 'Hey guess what everyone is wonderful I just wanna show you some pictures' I feel like i'm constantly like 'My bettas know how to stress me out and I know how to stress them out, WE'RE STRESSEN!!'' But I do hpe everyone at your place is doing wonderful!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh god, you just made me lmao with the Stressen comment XD I died! lol

Don't worry about it! I don't mind it, it's why I'm here! in fact I only have one journal going for my babies and on occasion I'll show my sorority but I'm mostly here to help people! And I enjoy doing that, especially when it's treated successfully, makes me feel good about myself and that my knowledge is sufficient for now!

You can stop at 9 if you want to and start decreasing after that, I would make the decrease period 4 days instead of three though so only take out about 25% each day and that will do it  And then decrease the temp after the fourth day of clean water changes. And then you can stop doing dailies but I would continue at least twice weekly changes for the next two weeks so do one 25-30% and then one 50% if you can. And after that you can continue with just your routine one weekly change 

But yes, everyone here is doing wonderful! I just let Jewel into the sorority last nice...I'm worried about her sister though. The two seem to have a vendetta against each other and I'm not sure how this will work out. Right now Jewel is at her sister's cup trying to get at her but sweet little Pineapple dirrected her away lol too cute ^_^ I've yet to name that sister but Jewel, Emma and the unnamed girl are all Dragon sisters which I showed in my thread Dawn of the Dragon...Scales 

All the boys are doing great though except Jarvis, he's a DT with some digestive issues. He hasn't pooped for real since about a month ago, instead he excretes it from his gills each time he eats. I'm working on him right now and in contact with someone else who knows more about Epsom than I do so hopefully he'll be set soon! But everyone else is being their arrogant, puffed up selves haha

Thanks for asking though  I do appreciate it!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

I'm glad I did  I do feel like we're like that a little too often LOL

Yeah I know what you mean! I'm currently on instagram and facebook (also Twitter and i kept getting pushed to have a kik? But I don't know what that is...lol) but my name is Betta_fish_helper on instagram and Betta Fish Helper on Twitter and Facebook  I know I don't always know a lot (I feel like I'm more successful helping others than I am dealing with my own gang -__-) but it does make me feel wonderful when I do help people! Like the other day I did a betta fact and said that bettas don't have eye lids and need the lights off so they can sleep properly and several people said that they would just leave it on all night. One girl said it was her night light -___- but what made me super happy is that someone commented yesterday and said that they turned their lights off the night before so their betta could sleep and she said he was a 100% happier when he saw her in the morning  talk about making me feel great!! Of course there's someone on instagram called 'Betta_expert'...she said bettas have bloat and that bloat is organ failure...I was like 'No bloat is a disease in cows, bettas get bloated meaning constipated and if left untreated will lead organ failure' then she repeated what I said, siad that's what she said and told me to do my research and get my facts straight... I was like *I'm an Animal Science Major, my job is to do research* boy did they make me mad >_> and NOW she has a sorority tank...with bambo...two sticks and barely any cover....I panicked telling her that her bettas will fight and someone will die if she doesn't get cover! It was like literally a desert in there!!! 


Anywho lol ok tomorrow will be my last day of adding salt (or could today be lol I don't mean to keep pushing it back but they all seem to be a lot better now...so I don't know? I could slowly reduce the salt by 5 days?) - if anything I'll take a video here in a minute and send it your way so you can tell me what you think of the little ladies 

That's awesome to hear!! I keep sneaking on aquabid looking for other girls but I know that i shouldn't get anymore!! I have to admit shamefully that I was thinking that maybe I could replace Ceylon if anything happened  I feel so selfish for thinking that way!! Personally I want her to get better and I would like to try and breed her with Maximus to see what genetics they would throw. I have to admit once again shamefully that I feel it would almost not be hard enough for be to cull the babies. I hate to sound like the 'It's just a fish person' but I feel that way sometimes and I really hate it  because these are my babies!! 

I do have to admit the other night I was up until 1 because i got busy with my day and hadn't changed their water and I was thinking 'Am I crazy?!?! How in the world do I expect to raise fry in college?!?!?' so I don't know :/ i wish I could have one baby, that would be awesome!! 

But I do hope that your unnamed girl gets along with everyone and that's awesome that they're all dragons  

I'm sorry to hear about your boy though  I can only imagine how much...fun...that can be! But i'm glad someone is helping and at least you can now learn something new too and help the next guy 

Also the other thread lady said to wait a day for epsom salt and to see if just clean practically saltless water will do her good? So I think I can do that because I feel I'll regret not doing it and I'll regret doing it so I might as well not and hope that things get better!


And you're welcome  I am really interested but I guess like a lot of people when you start having your own problems we become selfish and not worry too much about others until our situation has calmed down :/ I don't know if its worse that I know what's going on or if I would be clueless lol but at least I can try to be less selfish!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah there are plenty of people who have run into betta_expert here before and we had a thread going about her a while back. It was horrible to see what she claimed was "good care" uggg anyway. 

No, 9 days minimum, velvet's life cycle can still be continuing and you wouldn't know it. The "gold dust" part is only one portion of it's life cycle so you need to keep them in salt long as possible.

And for Ceylon, you need to get her in the Epsom as fast as you can. Dropsy is quick and deadly, the sooner you get her in there, the faster she will come down from pineconing if she will be saved at all. Ideally when switching salts you want to wait a day or so but this is serious and needs attention right now.

And you wouldn't be "replacing" her, you'd be giving another fish the chance at an awesome life and possibly with babies!!

And yeah I hear you, I'm going on my fourth year of college and I've got 7 classes next semester and one of them is Marching Band so not only do we have 2 hour practices during the week but we also have games on the weekend so I'm going to get bone tired next semester keeping up with my 5 tanks and possibly another at my mom's if we can get it set up. It's going to be a fun one! But I've got 2 years left still since I swiched my major from Music Ed to Art my second year ^_^ I'm much happier now lol

So anyway I have a kitten playdate to go attend, my feral cat ended up having kittens so we set up dates with the new owners to come and play with them so the kittens get used to them ^_^ So I'll pop back in later to see how everyone's doing :-D


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Yeah she told me a 1 gallon was a perfectly fine home for a betta...I was like 'People like you cause others to think poor care is ok!!' so yeah it's been frustrating!! And her betta got cottonmouth... and passed away...

Anywho ok I did the 8 day and tomorrow makes 9!! I'm super excited  


Ok so when I read this early I was at work so I came back around 3 and added about 2 teaspoons of Epsom salt. She not seems a little better. Not really swimming but not much pine coning, in my opinion. Should I add more? 

I would hope it would be an awesome life! Poor Venus right now is getting beat up since I took Ceylon out so I don't know what to do to prevent velvet or anything from coming back!

Oh gosh good luck!! I can only imagine how that'll be! I thankfully will be working grounds crew and currently I'm trying to get a possible job at petland  of course I don't know if I want to or not because i'll be bring Peter Pan (my horse) for Block B since I'll have almost 5 day weekends! So I of course don't want to be tied down with a job on the weekends that'll prevent me from going home!! And i'm glad you switched  It's defiantly better than you not being happy where you are! What's your dream job? I'm currently trying to stay in ANS so hopefully I can say in 2 years I'll have my ANS degree  


I defiantly hope your kitten play date went well and if you have any pictures please share! I would love to see them  we've had tons of feral cats and kittens in the past so I'm glad you guys are working on them! It takes a while for the adults but it is rewarding when they finally warm up to you 

Also while at Petland getting the syphons I met for the second time an Umbrella Cockatoo named Joe...s/he's 5 months old and I spent an hour playing with them! I now want to rescue a Goffin Cockatoo when I have a home for one!! So I'm looking at my boyfriend like 'Hey baby...would you wanna adopt one??' he still hasn't said yes...BUT...he hasn't no either so there's hope! Of course I would want to be moved in with him and settled before that happened! But anywho lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I've got their full story here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=185425 The beginning is a bit sad but it get better I promise! :-D

That bird sounds adorable :-D I really know nothing about bird but another friend from college was telling me all about her parrot and how the parrot hates the mom now because she had children lol and then telling me about her budgies, so at least I know a bit about that haha never heard of an Umbrella Cockatoo...I think I have an idea--oh up, just googled, what's what I was thinking about :-D Aww Goffin's look so cute!

When I get my own place I'll have like 6 sorority tanks 10 small tanks for males, 10 million cats and maybe a bird! I'm allergic to actually all animals with fur/dander/saliva so it's hard to keep animals. They are leveling degree's of severity like I'm really allergic to dogs but cats are alright, severely allergic to horses (super sadface!) but cows are absolutely fine. Severely allergic to hay as well and basement's. So yeah...not fun for me even when I do take my allergy meds!

And the playdate went so well, oh my gosh, the little black and white one codenamed Padfoot drank from mom and then he looked up at me (I was sitting on a chair) and he stretched up against my pant leg. I put my leg out at an angle and he climbed up my leg to fall asleep on me!!!!!!! AFKSDLKFJGHASlkdJA <----I was literally doing that! Ugg and then mom called for dinner >< Stupid dinner ruining my adorable sleepy time kitty! So I picked him up and put him down with his two remaining sisters (one has already gone off to her foreverhome) and he crawled back to me and pleaded with those eyes!!! Arrrggggg I just want to cuddle him all the time!!!

Phew, anyway back to fish! Okay keep Ceylon's concentration at 3 teaspoons per gallon at all times, you don't have to do a water change everyday but do a little bit like 25% every other to keep her clean.

As for Venus, do you have any cups that the bully can go into? Breeder box/net possibly? That's what I do with bully's (not the bullied, Venus can stay out because another will just be picked on if you do take her out) just put them into even a plastic baggie taped to the side of the tank so that they can still see but not touch until everyone is good again.

As for preventing velvet there's no much you can do, it's either going to happen or it's not going to happen. Once the treatment is done and all temps are lowers you just hope for the best. Don't use salts as a preventative because that would hurt their liver/kidneys and end up with organ failure.

You can just keep the tank clean and that's a good enough preventative. Each time you do a water change, take out one of the sponges to swish around in old tank water (you won't be shaking off BB, don't worry) and that should help with that at least. But that's pretty much the only thing you can do to prevent disease from spreading. That and don't overfeed 

Oh by the way, loved the towel joke you came up with, I laughed at that too XD


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

She doesn't look feral at all! Just like a stray  


Yeah he is actually I found out he's a Umbrella Cockatoo and a awesome  the thing is though that umbrella cockatoos can live 70+ years but Goffin's live 65 or so years so I'm thinking a Goffin is more in my future  But I am nervous because that's a HUGE commitment! But we have a friend who knows of a lot who need new homes so all shall be good! 


I'm so sorry to hear about your allergies!! That's horrible!! But I like your house idea  I have to admit I love my boys and girl bettas and I'll defiantly keep a few rescues but last night I brought my computer up to my lofted bed and had the charger on the side of my bed. When I plugged it in it didn't turn on but I thought the noise I had heard earlier was that charger unplugging...nope it was the entire power strip which also had Ceylon's heater attached to it...so thankfully I had forgotten to turn down the room temperature AND had a towel on her so it stayed about 75 degrees but talk about everything going wrong for her! Also went to go check on Venus. She's now missing scales so I haven't a clue who the real bully is but I separated her because I don't want to take the chance to separate the wrong girl or if they're all bullying her...so to be honest I think once these ladies and gentlemen hit old age and swim across to heaven I'll wait a while at least until I have a permeant place so I don't have to worry about moving AND I can actually cycle the dang tank and have real plants and what not -_- half of me though is thinking about just setting up two 10 gallons, cycling those and splitting the girls. Maybelline, Ceylon, Opal, and Tiblu (and Paddie at the time) were an amazing sorority with no fusing and i ruined that by going over the top and getting 6 more! But now it may be Maybelline, Ceylon, Opal, Tiblue, and Venus. And the other would be Ariel, Eleni, Iris, and I'll have to add one more to that group. But what do you think? I love my 20 gallon because of all the space but it seems that the girls aren't doing so amazing together anymore  

BUT for my own place I want to have my two horses with me, I would love to take a few cats from my college  rescue a bird, have at least 1-2 fish tanks set up, have a rescued dog, adopt a miniature donkey (or donkey in general), and have many more rescued animals!


That's great that the play day went awesome! I'm sorry you had to go to dinner LOL but at least they're getting cuddly!!! You should carry him around with you constantly  

And with Ceylon I'll do a mini 50% water change in a few but I wanna let her temperature slowly raise up before I do that 

And Venus is in a breeder container.

I'll defaintly keep my sponge filter nice and washed  


And thank you I was just looking at all my towels on all my fish tanks and I was like you know what I would throw them if I could! Of course currently my roommate is gone for the weekend and my room is a disaster :'(


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol after all this you can throw all the towels you want! haha

I would totally carry padfoot around with me except they can't leave the basement, or rather mom doesn't want them upstairs in case of fleas. And yeah I'm pretty sure that Misha is just a stray who spent some time out in the woods before she came to us. But we're totally keeping her whether mom wants to or not  I'll be that spoiled college kid haha

Oh geez, poor Ceylon! Glad she's okay though!

It might be easier to just do the two 10's, I think you'll have to try it out and see what happens. Keep the 20 obviously but just try it out and see how it goes  Can't hurt to try at least and it might be easier and better, you never know :-D I know the 20 is nice and all too, but it just might be more practical to do the 2 10's for now. I mean, they've only been set up for a little while now completely so fighting is to be expected especially with two girls missing from the bunch and now three that you took Venus out. That's fine to take her out, but expect that someone else is going to get picked on as well now, that's all


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Yeah I feel Towel throwing is in my future!! 

Yeah that's what happened to us when we rescued 3 feral kittens (the poor mom was petrified because they were too little to run away fast enough and mom and I wanted to catch them before they got too big and continued on being feral. (We did fix the mom but she never warmed up to us and was truly feral  ) but I eventually convinced my mom to let the babies run around the house so we had a blast together!!

Yeah I just have so much luck with my ladies lately its not even funny lol

And yeah I think I'll set them up at some point to start cycling so that when I move to my next dorm room they'll be all ready for me. I currently have Venus in the tank just in the breeder container and she's thankfully relaxed about it so that's good! But I have to admit I've been debating on transferring to a school closer to home.... I absolutely love Berry College and there's 26,000 acres (biggest campus in the world) and only 2,000 students but I'm 4 hours away from home. I'm going to stay but half of me wishes I could be home :/ but any who!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Ceylon pooped again! Yes!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Any perks to actually being at that college versus one being closer to home? Like scholarships/programs and such? If there isn't, I wouldn't see why you couldn't transfer to a school closer to home 

Glad Venus is better! Hopefully things can settle down soon so that everything will work out better, something good has to happen soon for you! lol It's about due time!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Any perks to actually being at that college versus one being closer to home? Like scholarships/programs and such? If there isn't, I wouldn't see why you couldn't transfer to a school closer to home
> 
> Glad Venus is better! Hopefully things can settle down soon so that everything will work out better, something good has to happen soon for you! lol It's about due time!


It's a nature college, the barn is 5 minutes away. I have 30 plus geese who greet me (I feed them everyday) i have 7 cats who run to my car when I go to the barn. They have a wonderful vet program, and I love being here. But the down side is I don't have my family close to me and schools closer to home aren't as great as Berry so that's why I'm staying :/

Yeah she's at least calm and I cannot see whose the bully because they're all coming over to her -__- but I hope things will lighten up!! It's scary to say but half of me wants to find a good home for a few of my girls (at least the more aggressive ones) so I can keep one ten gallon instead of two but then I feel ridiculous because I don't know anyone around here I trust!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah okay, so yeah stay there lol it does stink about not seeing family but better to have a good college education and get a good job after than get a worse one to see family all the time 

They might all be ganging up on her if they feel stressed that their pecking order has been broken, they're just trying to get another alpha in and seems that she's definitely not an alpha.

If you do end up wanting to get rid of some, I would be willing to take a few if you were able to ship them. Eventually I'll have money to pay shipping lol but I'm sure that's down the road but I figured I'd offer anyway's for a future reference 

My sorority is only at 10 actually in the tank, 3 waiting to go in and 1 will be shipped later and possible another from a friend if all goes well. So that's only 15 in a 33 gallon, I could totally fit more in there lol I could get up to 25 if I really wanted to but I won't  I think 20 is a good limit XD


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Yeah it's just that my family is really my best friend and my boyfriend has a full time job and I can understand why he doesn't wanna take the drive. He does plan on it but even I don't like that drive lol but anywho I just need to keep my grades up!


Yeah that's what seems to be happening and she's really beaten up  


That would be wonderful! I do have a friend who has some but her family does not know about fish. And she doesn't either and is now taking her nursing certification class so she's super busy. But I would be willing to ship to you! (Which state do you live in?) 


That does sound like a nice sorority  I really love my girls its just the stress of them and the fact that we will be moving at least 8 more times before I can settle some place  and I'll probably go home for winter breaks so the 10 will defiantly be ideal and one 10 and two 5's will be enough (since I'll probably take Socrates with me too!) I could try to move my 8 to the 10 but I feel like its unfair since I do have the 20. 


But I agree with you  especially since you aren't moving! If anything I would pick my more aggressive females to send to you? If that would be ok...although I just saw Tiblu sneak up on Iris and nip her! Gosh they're so picky lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol yeah they can all be nippy, even the ones that are on the bottom of the pecking order, it's just the way it is. I'm usually pretty good at settling bullies and with Mystique as my Alpha, we make a great team to keep bullies at bay haha I certainly wouldn't mind the more aggressive ones. And I do live in Rhode Island 

You know you can put up to 10 girls in a 10 gallon as long as there are no other fish/snails/inverts. So you have 8 right now all together? You could fit them in there with most or all of the fake plants from you 20 stuffed in there. It would make it harder for them to swim which means less chances for bullies and more cover for the girls to swim away, and then you already have the sponge filters to help too. Just a thought ^_^

But I would give the 10 a shot for now with all of them before you go shipping them out because you never know, it just might work with the smaller space!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

And that's not tooooooooo far away  I'm usually in South Carolina but GA for the school year  


That's good to hear!! My girls are good but they need to battle the bands before we all calm down. At least Maybelline is FINALLY better still clamped but swimming and active! Ceylon is still breathing but still pine coning so I don't know what to do because I added another teaspoon so its about 3 ish in there but I'm going to change her water later this evening when I change everyone else's water.


And yeah I know i can put 10 in 10 but first I don't want to over run a cycle and second I feel its cruel to have a 20 gallon and have them all jammed in a 10 so I defiantly wanna lower my number or split into two. But lets just say I need to get past my girls picking each other off one by one before I get too far! I also need to do my homework LOL and I have to clean my horses sheath....yes that part...I've been putting it off because its unpleasant for both of us (although not to sound weird all the flies have been bugging the area and he wants me to scratch the inside of his thigh but unfortunately it looks like something else -___- and the face he makes when I scratch and itch! Talk about embarrassing!! But when that area itches they will scratch their tails like they have worms and stigma will get on their legs and Peter has both stigma on his hind legs and his tail has been scratched so he needs a much needed hair cut, body wash, and good cleaning so that's my plan for today soon lol) 

Anywho yeah that's the joy of owning a horse (although he is the love of my life and he is 'The one' horse for me, I love my little pony so much too but I know that Peter is 'The One' for me <3) At least I know that for me  and I love Ariel, Iris, Eleni, and Venus but Ceylon, Opal, Tiblu, and Maybelline are my little girls, the first ones and I feel at least with Ceylon and Maybelline a nice connection


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Actually you can't overrun a cycle, it will just grow more bacteria to accommodate the fish  it's not cruel if it works and it doesn't give each girl just ONE gallon because they can occupy more than 5 gallons at a time which is perfectly fine. But of course it comes down to what you want to do with them 

I have an aunt who lives in North Carolina lol

So is there 3 teaspoons total in her tank or is it 3 teaspoons per gallon in there? She's in a 5 gallon right? If so then there should be 15 teaspoons of salt in there all together.

Poor Peter! Yeah I can see why that would look weird and embarassing! lol But hey, it's got to be done to keep him happy and healthy right? lol


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Actually you can't overrun a cycle, it will just grow more bacteria to accommodate the fish  it's not cruel if it works and it doesn't give each girl just ONE gallon because they can occupy more than 5 gallons at a time which is perfectly fine. But of course it comes down to what you want to do with them
> 
> I have an aunt who lives in North Carolina lol
> 
> ...


Yeah I know it's just that there would be a lot of ammonia so then lots of water changes and i'm lazy lol so it'll be in the fall when that goes down since I'll be picking up and moving everything -___-

Oh ok lol

Right now there's 3 1/4 and she's in a 5.5 but I only have about 2 gallons of water in there right now because she's having trouble swimming and I don't have enough decorations that aren't in another fish's tank for her  she's just sitting at the top right now breathing 


Yeah it does but to be honest I've been so lazy and busy and unorganized I haven't seriously ridden him in almost 2 months :'( it's horrible because I'm almost wanting to send him home and I feel like I'm losing that connection so I'll be leaving in an hour to go spend the rest of my afternoon with him (also I'd prefer all the workers and campers if there's any to be gone before I clean him because last time it took an hour and a half because I soaped and cleaned but he wouldn't drop so I could rinse and I hear its really bad to leave soap in there so it was basically me sitting there and waiting -___- but I love him none the less lol


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay for 2 gallons it should still be at 6 teaspoons if you don't get the right dosage in there, it's not going to help her :-(

You do realize that they produce the same amount of ammonia whether they are in a 20 gallon or a 10 gallon lol And the cycle would keep them safe so you'd only be doing your regular weekly change of about 40-50% still XD

Aww poor Peter! I wish I could still ride horses but a back injury took that away too :-( I still love them though even with all the work that they need. They're just such majestic creatures! I hope you have a wonderful day with him!!


----------



## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Okay for 2 gallons it should still be at 6 teaspoons if you don't get the right dosage in there, it's not going to help her :-(
> 
> You do realize that they produce the same amount of ammonia whether they are in a 20 gallon or a 10 gallon lol And the cycle would keep them safe so you'd only be doing your regular weekly change of about 40-50% still XD
> 
> Aww poor Peter! I wish I could still ride horses but a back injury took that away too :-( I still love them though even with all the work that they need. They're just such majestic creatures! I hope you have a wonderful day with him!!


Ok I'll add some more now!

And yes but it builds up a lot faster in a 10 than 20 is what I'm saying lol 

Oh my gosh I'm so sorry to hear that!!! Yeah they are amazing creatures and captivate me every day! And thank you! I'm heading to the barn in a few minutes since I'm doing Ceylon's water!!


----------

