# Eye Damage? Popeye?



## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 5 gallons
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 78 degrees Fahrenheit
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? She had a mystery snail friend for a while, but he’s currently in another tank

Food:
What food brand do you use? New Life Spectrum Betta, Zoo Med Betta Treats
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? Occasionally
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice a day, two pellets

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Nearing a week ago
What percentage of water did you change? 50% - I noticed high nitrites
What is the source of your water? - Tap, conditioned
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dipped out
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? Conditioner, Tetra AquaSafe Plus
I don’t know if this counts, but I’ve also recently added an Indian almond leaf. I’ve used one in the past, but I hadn’t put any in for the past few months

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: .25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 30
pH: 7.6
I have no idea how to test for these last two - I don’t think the kit I use can do them. I’m not quite sure why the nitrates and PH are so high, but I’ve performed a water change in hopes that they’ll go down

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Yesterday
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? One eye seems to be concave and cloudy
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? She’s been hiding more, staying towards the bottom of the tank, and bumping into things more often
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? Since late
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! The eyes don't look like popeye although I'm not an expert.
Can you do more frequent water changes to see if it helps lower the ammonia etc?
(If it were me, I'd remove the almond leaf to see if things change).

Also, try removing the moss ball, give it a gentle squeeze and rinse, and put it in a vase until you have the tank water at normal parameters. Marimo are like sponges and retain water. If it isn't in the tank it isn't contributing to any water parameter issues.

By the way, are those the small size new life spectrum pellets? (It states on the tub what size). I feed my boys as much as they can eat within 60-90 seconds. If so, gradually increase the amount over a few days.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Hi! The eyes don't look like popeye although I'm not an expert.
> Can you do more frequent water changes to see if it helps lower the ammonia etc?
> (If it were me, I'd remove the almond leaf to see if things change).
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I’ll be sure to do water changes at least every few days until things get back to normal. I’ve removed the almond leaf and the moss ball. The pellets are regular sized! I’m still not sure how much I should be feeding her (She was bloated on three pellets twice a day, but I’m nervous I might be feeding her too little on two), so I think I’ll try feeding her three pellets at one feeding and two at the other for a bit and see how it works out


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Let us know how things go


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Let us know how things go


I should let you know that whatever’s happening has seemingly spread to her other eye. I have a quarantine tank set up in case it’s needed, and I’m just trying to figure out now whether I should treat her with some sort of antibiotic or not


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If you can get a photo from directly above that would help.

And you can feed her two pellets three times per day or several times per day as long as they are spaced out. She does not look undernourished, however, so it's your call on whether to up her feedings. Like people, some need more food and some need less to maintain weight.


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## Rana (Apr 27, 2013)

Can you post a photo taken from directly over her? That is the easiest way to check and compare the condition of eyes, usually.

You only need a hospital tank if she has tankmates, or is in a divided tank. If she's alone then you can leave her where she is and treat there to reduce stress.

If her eye really is concave- curving _in_- then in my opinion it's likely caused by physical damage. Either an injury, or popeye that went unchecked long enough for the eye to truly "pop". Check over her decorations for any place she might have stuck her head into and scraped herself up. I am not sure if a "deflated" eye can be saved, or if she'll be blind on that side.

If it's swollen and bulging out, then it's more likely to be classic popeye, which is a bacterial infection usually caused by poor water quality. I would start doing frequent water changes of about 25% three times a week for a while, and make sure to vacuum the gravel well. If her tank isn't fully cycled- and it sounds like it isn't yet- then it could be the stress of fish-in cycling that has weakened her immune system enough to develop popeye. Using Seachem Prime daily to detoxify the Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate while it cycles will probably make her less stressed and help her immune system fight off the infection.

Antibiotics can be used if you think her condition is bad enough now or doesn't improve in a couple of days, however I am out of practice at remembering which meds are better for which problems so I will leave that for someone else to recommend.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Rana said:


> Can you post a photo taken from directly over her? That is the easiest way to check and compare the condition of eyes, usually.
> 
> You only need a hospital tank if she has tankmates, or is in a divided tank. If she's alone then you can leave her where she is and treat there to reduce stress.
> 
> ...





RussellTheShihTzu said:


> If you can get a photo from directly above that would help.
> 
> And you can feed her two pellets three times per day or several times per day as long as they are spaced out. She does not look undernourished, however, so it's your call on whether to up her feedings. Like people, some need more food and some need less to maintain weight.



























Here are some current photos. She was moved into a smaller container so she could be drip-acclimated to the quarantine tank, but I’ll certainly shift her back into her main tank! If I do start using antibiotics in the main tank, is there anything I should do to keep them from killing the beneficial bacteria?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

She doesn't look to have pop-eye to me. Both eyes look normal.

@Rana You agree? You might see something I don't. Thanks!


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## Rana (Apr 27, 2013)

It doesn't look to me like she has popeye. Her eyes stick out about as far as I would expect for a betta, rather than being swollen.

I can't see clearly enough with the picture quality, so you'll have to look for yourself- does she have a clear round lens or dome covering the colored iris & pupil of her eyes? Her iris may seem to curve in underneath this dome. If so, that's all perfectly normal.

In the first few pictures you posted, it looked like the lens on her left eye may have been damaged- "deflated" so there was no dome- which is why I was concerned about physical injury. But in these new pictures I can't see that damage, so I am not sure if I was mistaken.

If there _is_ damage there, then personally I would not use antibiotics unless you see an infection start since antibiotics are pretty stressful. Slight cloudiness without any other signs of sickness, like lethargy, may be the result of her slime coat being irritated, or pus from her body trying to repair the damage, and I'd just focus on giving her clean water for the next few days.

If there isn't damage, just the slight cloudiness you mentioned earlier, I'd still say clean water is all you need. Minor irritation or scratches can cause cloudiness and should clear back up in a few days. Only if she starts acting sick, or the cloudiness gets worse- turns solid, or fuzzy, etc- would I start to treat her with medicine.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> She doesn't look to have pop-eye to me. Both eyes look normal.
> 
> @Rana You agree? You might see something I don't. Thanks!





Rana said:


> It doesn't look to me like she has popeye. Her eyes stick out about as far as I would expect for a betta, rather than being swollen.
> 
> I can't see clearly enough with the picture quality, so you'll have to look for yourself- does she have a clear round lens or dome covering the colored iris & pupil of her eyes? Her iris may seem to curve in underneath this dome. If so, that's all perfectly normal.
> 
> ...


Thank you both so much!! Her lens doesn’t seem to be damaged, at least from the top and what I can see from the side when she decides to turn that side to face me, but I think it’s certainly possible she’s been injured. I’ll be sure to keep the water clean - I did a water change the day before yesterday, and I’m doing one again tonight. She’s acting lethargic, but I would be too if my eye had been damaged! If things take a turn for the worse, I’ll add antibiotics, but for now, I’ll keep doing what I’ve been doing for her


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hang in there little girl 🥰


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can add a tea made of Indian Almond Leaves or Rooibos Tea (plain, decaffeinated). IAL online or pet stores and the Rooibos Tea in most grocery and healthy food stores.

Add the tea until the water turns a medium brown. Store leftovers in the refrigerator.

Both have calming and mild antibacterial properties.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> You can add a tea made of Indian Almond Leaves or Rooibos Tea (plain, decaffeinated). IAL online or pet stores and the Rooibos Tea in most grocery and healthy food stores.
> 
> Add the tea until the water turns a medium brown. Store leftovers in the refrigerator.
> 
> Both have calming and mild antibacterial properties.


Thank you!! I have some Indian almond leaves. I’ve just turned her light off, but I’ll make them into tea in the morning!


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Hi! I just thought I’d mention that while she’s not doing better, nothing’s gotten worse either. There’s still a faint cloudiness, and she’s touching the glass quite a bit - I’m starting to think she’s lost part of her vision. She’s remaining towards the bottom of the tank most of the time, but she’s still eating and swimming around when I come up to her. I’ve used aquarium salts on her tank, and I’ve performed multiple 50% water changes. I’m hoping she’ll start to look better in the next few days

edit: never mind - I checked on her at her nightly feeding and it seems to have spread to her other eye. I’m starting her on antibiotics, because I don’t know what would cause this to happen if she didn’t have some sort of infection. She seems to have lost most of her vision. I’m wondering which antibiotic I should be using, since I have two - BettaFix and API Fin and Body Cure. I just used BettaFix, being sure to underdone her a little, bit I’m not sure which would be better?


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi there, cloudy eye can result from a number of reasons, cataracts, injury, bacterial/protozoan. 
They first is un-treatable, the second may clear up and the last sometimes requires meds.
If the clean water isn't helping and the cloudiness in here eyes is starting to spread, you can start her on a round of Kanaplex. If it is a protozoan infection, you will need Metroplex to clear it up, but I would start with the Kanaplex for the higher probability.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi there, cloudy eye can result from a number of reasons, cataracts, injury, bacterial/protozoan.
> They first is un-treatable, the second may clear up and the last sometimes requires meds.
> If the clean water isn't helping and the cloudiness in here eyes is starting to spread, you can start her on a round of Kanaplex. If it is a protozoan infection, you will need Metroplex to clear it up, but I would start with the Kanaplex for the higher probability.


Thank you!! Honestly, I’d really hope it’s one of the first two, but if it’s the last one, I’d rather not risk it spreading and causing her more problems. I’ll see if I can get kanaplex - the online stores I’ve found will either ship around a week for now or have high fee, but I might be able to pick it up at one of the pet stores around here


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi there, cloudy eye can result from a number of reasons, cataracts, injury, bacterial/protozoan.
> They first is un-treatable, the second may clear up and the last sometimes requires meds.
> If the clean water isn't helping and the cloudiness in here eyes is starting to spread, you can start her on a round of Kanaplex. If it is a protozoan infection, you will need Metroplex to clear it up, but I would start with the Kanaplex for the higher probability.



Hi, I’m so sorry to bother you, but I can’t seem to find Kanaplex at any of my local stores. I’ve ordered it online - I’ve paid for expedited shipping on Amazon, but it might deliver anywhere between Tuesday and the 20th. What can I do to help ensure she holds out until then? Should I dose her with anything? What should I do if it takes until the 20th to arrive? Again, I’m so sorry for all of the questions


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Keeping up the water changes so her home stay really clean and the IAL will help until you receive the Kanaplex. Start now, though, feeding her in the same spot. I like a front corner. That way, if it is cataracts, she'll be trained on where to look for meals. I usually give tank rims a little tap before feeding.


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## Sylvansorbus (Mar 20, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Keeping up the water changes so her home stay really clean and the IAL will help until you receive the Kanaplex. Start now, though, feeding her in the same spot. I like a front corner. That way, if it is cataracts, she'll be trained on where to look for meals. I usually give tank rims a little tap before feeding.


Thank you so much!! I’ve done a 50% water change tonight, and I’ll do (a likely smaller) one tomorrow. She seems to be clinging to the walls to cope with her vision loss, so I think a front corner will be best


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, perform the maintenance as recommended by @RussellTheShihTzu, the Kanaplex should ship sooner than later as it is considered essential pet supplies. I put in an order recently and received it quickly.
As of your description, if she is still fairly and trying to eat, it doesn't seem immediately lifethreatning.


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