# How to reduce water changes in Uncycled tank?



## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

I have a 2.5 Gallon tank without filter. 

(I am saving for a bigger tank with filter, which I am planning to cycle)

Presently i am doing one 50% and one 100% water change in a week, but my betta hates water changes. he will run like a hell while I try to scoop him in a cup and will thrash himself here and there. he gets stress stripes immediately when i do water changes. This is the reason i want to reduce the frequency of water changes.

I was reading various threads and I saw that floating plants will absorb the amonia and nitrate, so if i add some floating plants like frogbit can i reduce the frequency of water changes?


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

jhc said:


> I have a 2.5 Gallon tank without filter.
> 
> (I am saving for a bigger tank with filter, which I am planning to cycle)
> 
> ...


_

No. He will need plenty of water changes if you don't have a filter. A lot of members will argue he should have small amounts changed every day, or every couple of days; then a big water change at least once a week. Only when you have a cycled filter can you reduce the water changes to once a week. How much you change is up to you as long as you are keeping the nitrates low.

Plants do help take up some ammonia and nitrite, but it is on a very small scale which is why you can't reduce the water changes. Do get some besides - it will help even in a small way with water quality. 

As for the stress during water changes - use a fish net rather than a cup? It's very very quick and doesn't cause the same amount of stress as chasing them round the water with a cup will. Or, leave him in the tank for the 50% change. I never take my bettas out of the tank for water changes, but then I never do 100% water changes because I have cycled filters. 

Hope this helps_


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## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

Bessie said:


> No. He will need plenty of water changes if you don't have a filter. A lot of members will argue he should have small amounts changed every day, or every couple of days; then a big water change at least once a week. Only when you have a cycled filter can you reduce the water changes to once a week. How much you change is up to you as long as you are keeping the nitrates low.
> 
> Plants do help take up some ammonia and nitrite, but it is on a very small scale which is why you can't reduce the water changes. Do get some besides - it will help even in a small way with water quality.
> 
> ...



I guess I will have to wait till i get a bigger tank and filter. Or shall I try to cycle 2.5 gallon tank?


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## anitsirk92 (Aug 20, 2014)

Leave him in the tank for the 50% that will reduce some stress


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Yeah, I wouldn't tank him out for any water changes less than 100%. He will be much happier just staying in the tank for the partial changes. You can also try luring him into the cup with food rather than just scooping him - that way you can just gently pick him up rather than using the cup to essentially siphon him into it.


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## 2boys2fish (Jun 13, 2014)

Yes, what I would do is find some way to siphon out the water. I can siphon out as much as 80% of the water, leaving only about 2 inches or so at the bottom (about the same amount they have in those ridiculous cups) without my bettas stressing out.

I got a cheap siphon from a hardware store with a bulb on the end of it that people use for gas. It's fine for water.

Or you can get a regular aquarium siphon and remove the giant nozzle thing off of the end which would leave basically a tube, and it's smaller and easier to work with in a small tank. It's easier to use it if you get a turkey baster and suck the water from the other end, provided that the receptacle container that the dirty water is going to is lower than the fish tank.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

you can absolutely cycle a 2.5 gallon - all of my tanks are currently cycled 2.5 gallons. I'm doing two 50% water changes a week. 

A sponge filter is a good choice for a 2.5 gallon tank.


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## starlight910 (Jul 25, 2014)

To make my bettas less stressful when I do water changes, I just wait until they're at a corner of the tank and then "corner" them with the cup and allow them to swim into it. You can also just put the cup in the tank and wait until they swim into it.When I do 100% water changes I just do 50% with the fish inside and then take them out after that point to reduce the amount of time they are in the cup, and then I continue the water change


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## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

Thank you guys for the suggestions, i do keep him in the tank during 50% water change but still gets too much sterssed.

May b i will have to try siphon idea


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

unfortunately, this is draw back with smaller tanks. Siphons do help, my fish are much less stressed once I got one.


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## 2boys2fish (Jun 13, 2014)

You could also try using Prime water conditioner. It neutralizes ammonia for 24 hours, and it might buy you an extra day here or there.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

2boys2fish said:


> You could also try using Prime water conditioner. It neutralizes ammonia for 24 hours, and it might buy you an extra day here or there.


Prime is NO substitute for water changes. Yes, it neutralized ammonia but the OP has an uncycled tank so frequent water changes are still needed. Since the OP does have a small uncycled tank, Prime is a good water conditioner but also you can add 1-2 drops per day to protect your fish. This does NOT mean that you can miss water changes.

i don't know where this whole recent fascination with trying to do less water changes came from. Water changes are the most important part of fish keeping.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Sponge filters and air pumps (need with sponge filter) are very cheap and don't blow bettas around so they're a good choice for small tanks. Lots of fast growing plants can help but you'll still need to do water changes, and if you get plants you'll have to balance lighting for them to grow properly depending on what you get. Hornwort, anacharis, and duckweed are low light low demand fast growers that are good for beginners, but they won't remove the need for water changes. I only do 100% water changes on my quarantine, as all other tanks have plants, but its a larger tank (10g) so I can sue one of those less than 1g betta cubes (brand name starts with an M.. Marina? dont remember)to snatch out whoever is in (currently my mustard betta- Magnus- healing from fin damage from wiggling through a divider and getting whooped on by Alastor on the other side). The pull caused from pushing the cube into the water sucks him right into it so he doesn't have a chance to run or be stressed. Once in I put a black cloth over it so he doesn't try to jump and it helps keep him calm. When the water change is done I do drip acclimation then pour the cube water (and him) back in. No chasing with a cup or fish net.


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## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

Yes I do understand the importance of waterchange and i do not qat to skip them just for my comfort.

my concern is stress due to water changes.


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## 2boys2fish (Jun 13, 2014)

That's contradictory to what the directions say on the bottle. If it neutralizes the ammonia for 24 hours, and you are in a situation where you can't get a larger area and you can't change every day on the dot, then it will keep the ammonia neutralized for 24 hours.

is it an excuse not to change water? no. is it a replacement for a larger space? no.

but it will neutralize ammonia for 24 hours. Ammonia build up in a small container is where the problem lies. 

if you are saying that it doesn't, then you are saying it doesn't do what the directions say that it does.

now, if i had say TRALALALA, OP SSURE! go a week and use prime! Then i could see the outrage and intensity.

but all i said was that if you are in a situation where you are stuck, prime could buy you 24 hours.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

2boys2fish said:


> That's contradictory to what the directions say on the bottle. If it neutralizes the ammonia for 24 hours, and you are in a situation where you can't get a larger area and you can't change every day on the dot, then it will keep the ammonia neutralized for 24 hours.
> 
> is it an excuse not to change water? no. is it a replacement for a larger space? no.
> 
> ...


I also said that smaller uncycled tanks should use Prime everyday - 1-2 drops per tank

but it really doesn't buy you a day when you do that. Sure it neutralizes ammonia but it is still in the tank and by 36 hours all the benefits of Prime's ammonia neutralization is gone.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

OK. So why can't you do 3 50% water changes? It would save the fish all the stress.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> OK. So why can't you do 3 50% water changes? It would save the fish all the stress.


Unfiltered tanks need 100% water changes so that you can remove the ammonia that would normally be removed with a filter.


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## 2boys2fish (Jun 13, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> I also said that smaller uncycled tanks should use Prime everyday - 1-2 drops per tank
> 
> but it really doesn't buy you a day when you do that. Sure it neutralizes ammonia but it is still in the tank and by 36 hours all the benefits of Prime's ammonia neutralization is gone.



Please quote where I said "neutralized ammonia is no longer in the tank"?
because that's the only point of disagreement between what you said and what I said that I see in this statement: "Sure it neutralizes ammonia but it is still in the tank and by 36 hours all the benefits of Prime's ammonia neutralization is gone."

I said it neutralizes ammonia. 
I said that it's only for 24 hours. You gave it even longer at 36 hours.
The only thing that I did not expressly state was that The Ammonia Is Still In The Tank. Just because I did not state that fact doesn't mean that I wasn't aware of it or that I disagree with it.

I am well aware that prime breaks down ammonia into ammonium. I'm aware of that because I have observed that my snails seem to be slightly LESS sensitive to ammonium that ammonia, but still seem to be affected it a bit nonetheless. Therefore, the best thing to do is the change the water, rather than to continue to use prime constantly in lieu of water changes. I'm aware of all of this.

But I'm also aware that in a pinch, prime neutralizes ammonia. It works best if you are not putting it in day after day after day to neutralize ammonia to keep from changing the water.

pretending like that is what i said is what frequently makes people on this website seem like raving lunatics not to be taken too seriously when it comes to betta care. When really you people know your stuff and are correct, but are always so particularly gunning for an slight minor mispoken word or differing technicalities that aren't even actually disagreements to be expressed or some poor unknowing soul to blunder in so you can have an excuse to get your rocks off by jumping down on them with both feet.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

I still don't understand! In a week, if you'r doing a 100% & 50% then that's 1 & 1/2 changes a week. If you do 50% 3 times a week, it's still 1 & 1/2 full changes a week.


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## 2boys2fish (Jun 13, 2014)

Not exactly. Let's say you have, for instance, 8.0ppm of ammonia in the tank. if you did a 50% water change, it would take it down to 4.00pm. Then if you did another 50% change, it would take it down to 2.pm. technically, that's a 100% water change, but you still have 2ppm of ammonia left in the tank. If you did another 50% water change, then that would leave you with 1ppm of ammonia in the tank. You have technically done 150% water change because 50+50+50=150. but you haven't gotten rid of ALL the old water, so you still have 1ppm of ammonia left. With this premise, you've never given your fish a total and complete break from the ammonia because there is still always at least 1ppm of ammonia left in there. That's IF you do the water changes all at once. If you stretch the 50% water changes out throughout the week, then that gives the ammonia a chance to build up further before being cut in half again, so likely you'd keep a little more than that 1ppm at your lowest point of ammonia. When you do stretched out 50% water changes, there's always a little old water left in the tank. (that's IF the ammonia is at 8ppm. That's extremely high, and I was only using it as an example. *it could still work to do 50% water changes several times a week if your ammonia never gets up past .25ppm anyway. that's why it's so important to have ammonia tests, so you'll know.)

on the other hand, If you have 8ppm of ammonia in the tank and you do a 100% change right off the bat, then that takes your ammonia ppm all the way back down to 0, period (provided the water comes out of the tap at 0ppm ammonia.), because there is NONE of the old water left in the tank. It gives the fish a chance to take a complete and total break from ammonia for a little while before it starts to build back up again. 

I noticed when I kept my fish in bowls, they realllly lived for that recoup moment when all the water in the bowl was fresh and brand new. It gave them a chance to "bounce back" somewhat.

If you got an air pump and an air stone, you may be able to cycle your 2.5 gallon tank. or an air pump and a sponge filter. They are pretty cheap.


(also, a side note, i had to temporarily keep a snail in a small bowl. I did water tests and noticed that I never got ammonia spikes in the bowl any more, only nitrite spikes. so the first part of the cycle had taken place in a bare empty-but-water bowl and an extremely poopy snail, in which the water got changed every day, without even having tried to. Maybe your tank is more cycled than you think already. )


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Now I get it. Good explainer! ;D


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Its chemistry. the fish would also still be producing ammonia at the same time so you would always have high ammonia levels. and as you know, any level of ammonia is bad.


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## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

2boys2fish said:


> Not exactly. Let's say you have, for instance, 8.0ppm of ammonia in the tank. if you did a 50% water change, it would take it down to 4.00pm. Then if you did another 50% change, it would take it down to 2.pm. technically, that's a 100% water change, but you still have 2ppm of ammonia left in the tank. If you did another 50% water change, then that would leave you with 1ppm of ammonia in the tank. You have technically done 150% water change because 50+50+50=150. but you haven't gotten rid of ALL the old water, so you still have 1ppm of ammonia left. With this premise, you've never given your fish a total and complete break from the ammonia because there is still always at least 1ppm of ammonia left in there. That's IF you do the water changes all at once. If you stretch the 50% water changes out throughout the week, then that gives the ammonia a chance to build up further before being cut in half again, so likely you'd keep a little more than that 1ppm at your lowest point of ammonia. When you do stretched out 50% water changes, there's always a little old water left in the tank. (that's IF the ammonia is at 8ppm. That's extremely high, and I was only using it as an example. *it could still work to do 50% water changes several times a week if your ammonia never gets up past .25ppm anyway. that's why it's so important to have ammonia tests, so you'll know.)
> 
> on the other hand, If you have 8ppm of ammonia in the tank and you do a 100% change right off the bat, then that takes your ammonia ppm all the way back down to 0, period (provided the water comes out of the tap at 0ppm ammonia.), because there is NONE of the old water left in the tank. It gives the fish a chance to take a complete and total break from ammonia for a little while before it starts to build back up again.
> 
> ...



Yes I do have air pump and air stone and I had also thought abt making a sponge filter, but as my tank is small the water currents produced by the air pump is causing problem for the fish to swim freely so I had stopped using them.


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## bill38112 (Jun 28, 2014)

I have fourteen 2.5 gallon tanks, all generously planted (play sand over Organic Miracle-Gro Potting Soil). I only do a 30 percent water change once a week. I have duckweed in all my tanks as well. I also have Malaysian Trumpet Snails in all my tanks. They eat any left over food and mulm, aerate the soil, and keep the glass squeaky clean. I use Azoo Palm Filters on them all. In my 60 gallon Angelfish tank, I never vacuum the bottom and I never do water changes, just replace evaporated water. The plants and snails do all the work. The tank has been thriving for nearly six years.

Personally, I think netting or scooping fish out of their tank to do water changes stresses the fish too much, Big water changes, e.g. 50 percent or more are also stressful, changing both the water chemistry and temperature too rapidly.

When I set up a new betta tank I plant it, fill it with water from the Angel tank, and use one of Azoo Filters from an established tank to get all the good bacteria going...instant cycling.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

jhc, if you have an air pump, get a sponge filter AND a gang valve (or other valve that allows you to control flow. I have all my tanks, including my 2.5 gallon, hooked up to an air pump with sponge filters in each. The gang valve allows me to adjust exactly how much air goes in to each tank so that I can dial it down on the smaller tanks. That way only a little air goes in to the small tanks creating less flow. This makes it so that even my really poor swimmer does quite well in his 2.5 gallon tank with a sponge filter. And yes, a 2.5 gallon tank can totally be cycled. If you can get a sponge filter in there, you can immediately stop the 100% water changes and do 1 50% and 1 75% until it is cycled. Then drop to 2 50% changes a week and your betta will be MUCH less stressed. If you've got the pump, a sponge filter costs under $5 usually.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, that's the way to go.

A small point, if I may: Prime (AmmoLock and others) detoxifies ammonia by "locking" it into a harmless molecule. It does not ionize ammonia into ammonium. (This would effect the pH every time it was used.) This molecule decays in 24 to 48 hours, hence Seachem's advice to dose 2-drops/gal every other day. I recommend 1-drop/gal daily as a better way to keep more ammonia locked-up longer.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

VivianKJean said:


> Prime is NO substitute for water changes. Yes, it neutralized ammonia but the OP has an uncycled tank so frequent water changes are still needed. Since the OP does have a small uncycled tank, Prime is a good water conditioner but also you can add 1-2 drops per day to protect your fish. This does NOT mean that you can miss water changes.
> 
> i don't know where this whole recent fascination with trying to do less water changes came from. Water changes are the most important part of fish keeping.


While we should do the best for our fish... we can't be too rigid. Sometimes life "gets in the way" and we cannot always do water changes on the exact day we need too. And when someone's health or life (our fish) is in the balance we should strive to know all the tools to keep them safe. Using a drop or 2 of Prime to get us a day or 2 here and there is important to know and understand. What if you have to be away one or 2 days longer than planned... someone was prepared to feed it for you but you didn't even show them how to do a water change, much less trust them to do it right. You could call them as ask them to add one drop of Prime... that will help till you get home and ease your concern. 

This is a place of sharing information, ideas and experiences. I know that members will make mistakes that could have been prevented... I see too often people say, "If only I'd known". Sharing options here helps all of us learn,... not just the OP... but any newbie who comes along after and reads this thread. It helps if we explain "why" we do something or choose not to do it.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

SeaHorse said:


> While we should do the best for our fish... we can't be too rigid. Sometimes life "gets in the way" and we cannot always do water changes on the exact day we need too. And when someone's health or life (our fish) is in the balance we should strive to know all the tools to keep them safe. Using a drop or 2 of Prime to get us a day or 2 here and there is important to know and understand. What if you have to be away one or 2 days longer than planned... someone was prepared to feed it for you but you didn't even show them how to do a water change, much less trust them to do it right. You could call them as ask them to add one drop of Prime... that will help till you get home and ease your concern.
> 
> This is a place of sharing information, ideas and experiences. I know that members will make mistakes that could have been prevented... I see too often people say, "If only I'd known". Sharing options here helps all of us learn,... not just the OP... but any newbie who comes along after and reads this thread. It helps if we explain "why" we do something or choose not to do it.


I definitely agree that it is helpful to know some tricks/tips for when life gets in the way of our normal plans. The OP, however, was asking about ways to reduce water changes on a regular basis, and in this instance I think VivianKJean was spot on - there is no substitute for regular water changes. In my opinion, the best way to reduce the stress of water changes is to get a larger tank and cycle it. If that is not possible, then just trying to be careful not to jostle the fish when removing/adding water should somewhat reduce stress.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

2boys2fish said:


> pretending like that is what i said is what frequently makes people on this website seem like raving lunatics not to be taken too seriously when it comes to betta care. When really you people know your stuff and are correct, but are always so particularly gunning for an slight minor mispoken word or differing technicalities that aren't even actually disagreements to be expressed or some poor unknowing soul to blunder in so you can have an excuse to get your rocks off by jumping down on them with both feet.


+100000
Also SOME (not all) people on here tend to be really snobby and pretentious and give information that wasn't asked for, seemingly just to show off that they can regurgitate a fact that they have heard/read. I'm really sorry to off topic OP, but it was a breath of fresh air to see that I'm not the only one that gets frustrated with the people here sometimes.

Now for the OP. You can 100% cycle a 2.5 gallon tank. I have and the cycle stayed really strong. You can just get some tetra safestart if you want. Ithas worked for me to cycle a tank in a matter of days. And yes Prime can make the water a little safer for a temporary situation. Not to replace a water change.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

IMO, the best way to determine when to change water is Ammonia checks; in an unfiltered aquarium/bowl test daily. If Ammonia creeps toward .25 ppm, do a 25% water change. For a 2.5 gallon you could test every other day. Once a week you can do 75% so you don't have to remove your Betta. Airline tubing makes a great vacuum and in less intrusive for Betta which are easily stressed.

Doing a WC when Ammonia approaches or reaches .25 keeps you ahead of the game and is much easier on Betta which react badly to being netted or cupped. Even in a one-gallon bowl there's no need to capture a Betta for a 25% water change.

For me, water changes based on parameters make more sense than a formula for "X" percentage "X" times per week without parameter testing. But that's me and the way my brain works. ;-)


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## jhc (Sep 10, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice

What i understand is that the best option is to cycle the tank, that will also help in avoiding stress due to sudden change of water chemestry. So I thought y not cycle it and y not a bigger tank (bigger is better).

I was looking around and guess what, I managed to find a 29 gallon tank !!!! 

Soon it will b home and I can start cycling :-D


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

jhc said:


> Thank you all for the advice
> 
> What i understand is that the best option is to cycle the tank, that will also help in avoiding stress due to sudden change of water chemestry. So I thought y not cycle it and y not a bigger tank (bigger is better).
> 
> ...


That is awesome - good for you!! Your little guy will love it, and you'll get to have a great time setting it all up :-D.


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