# Plants dying... Again!



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

After taking down both of my tanks a few weeks back and throwing away a big number of plants, I replanted the remaining plants and everything seemed to be going relatively well. That is, until a couple of days ago. My lovely twisted vals have started to die! They're turning brown and thin and there's brown dust-like pieces lying on the other plants. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong... I have black sand as my substrate with root tabs, I have 6500K lights and decreased the photoperiod to about 10 hours per day, I've lowered the temperature to 78 degrees and the plants are still dying. 

The java fern, anubias and other plants which I don't know the names of in that tank are doing relatively well, they're not dying _yet_... Am I doing something wrong? Could it because my tank is struggling to cycle? Could it be the low pH? I've had so many plants die I'm ready to just go back to plastic plants and not bother with real ones because I feel like I can't keep them alive. 

I feel terrible because my fish really likes the twisted vals, he sleeps in them and spends a lot of time swimming through the leaves. I don't know what to do to save the plant and I don't really want take it out because it takes up quite a lot of the tank and there will be plenty of empty space without it. 

Are there any plant spieces that _won't_ die on me so quickly? I'd like to have beautiful planted tanks like so many members on this forum but I just keep failing over and over again.


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## Betaphototramp (Apr 13, 2014)

You have black sand for substrate, Is it Iron and mineral rich? Your temp is in the right range for most plants, and you are adding root tabs. Try two things at this point. First remove the brown and dying leaves. Sometimes when replanting Twisted Val they start to die off because of being disturbed and replanted. Removing the brown leaves will sometimes force new growth and the plant will send out more runners. You may also try dosing CO2 , something like CO2 booster, Some of the other plants you have require CO2. With cycling a new tank it will put stress on the plants by not having enough nitrites (which plants will break down and feed on. I would also try dosing the tank once a week with Flourish or Leaf zone to add more nutrients into the water to feed the plants also.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

BE CAREFUL with co2 boosters or liquid supplements. Vals do NOT respond well to Seachem Excel and will die off if dosed (very few people say they can dose safely, but 95% of the time it kills the plant.. happened to me when I tried using a 1/12th dose (extremely weak) BAM whole tank of Italian vals turned to mush!). Are the roots completely brown on your vals or are there still some white ones? its is all brown roots and not a single white one, its a dead plant. Change in temp, ph, and lighting can cause it to loose old leave and take a little before growing newly adapted ones for the changed environment.

How high is your light above the substrate? Height of lights make a big difference for your plants getting (possibly) high, medium, or low light from the same bulb.

Make sure the rhizome (horizontal part that roots and leaves grow from) of your anubias and java fern are not buried. Its best to tie them to other decor or tie them to a weight and bury that. 

I agree with cutting off dieing sections of plant and removing them from the tank, if left in it will make the ammonia spike from all the decomposing plant matter.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

A common mistake with rosette plants is that they are buried too deep. The crown should be above the substrate.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Betaphototramp, I don't feel comfortable with adding CO2 to my tanks. I've read about those DIY CO2 methods with yeast and sugar and whatever, and I definately do _not_ want to try that. 

I don't know whether my substrate is rich in anything, it's just regular aquarium sand mixed with a little bit of gravel from Pets at Home. It's this product: http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/p...lants-and-gravel/black-sand-2kg?pageSize=188#

I haven't seen Flourish or Leaf Zone around here, I'm wondering whether these can be only found in the USA. I have looked at these fertiliser powders that you mix with water and dose to the tank once a week, but I'm not sure whether these would be good or not. I'll see if I can find a link to something. 

I'll remove the browning leaves as you suggested  


Aqua Aurora, I'm due a water change on that tank tonight, so I'll check the roots. Last time I had a look they were white, but then again, the roots are tiny as these are fairly new plants. Here's a picture of what the Vals look like right now. The bottom picture is the residue they are leaving on the rock bridge and Anubias. I know the Anubias has some yellowing parts on a couple of the leaves, but if you look closely there's baby leaves to the right. 










Here's a picture of the whole set-up. Sorry about how dark it is, my phone doesn't like how bright the lights are. The lights are about 15 inches above the substrate, or rather, the bottom of the tank as this is where I measured from. It was quite awkward to get the measuring tape behind the tank without knocking the light down... Yup, I've done that once. The lamp tipped and fell into the tank :/ 










Both Anubias and Java Fern are tied to seperate pieces of decor with thread - I don't have fishing line, but the thread is doing a good job. The rhizomes are above the substrate, only some of the longer roots are buried.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

The tanks look a bit dark in the photos.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Your anubias looks like regular anubias barterie var. nana, aka anubias nana.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Andakin, that's because I have rooibos tea which makes the water tea-coloured and the substrate is black which makes the whole thing appear darker than it really is. Also the camera on my phone is terrible so the photos are pretty dark, I'm sorry about that. 

I haven't seen your earlier post, please excuse the lack of reply. I wasn't ignoring you. Are Vals rosette plants? If so, I had to bury them a few centimeters into the substrate as they kept floating away which was pretty frustrating :/ 

Aqua Aurora, yes, it's Anubias Nana


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

I share your frustration with rosette plants because they tend to float away. I'm also guilty of planting them deeper than they need to be. I find that vals tend to melt away and then bounce back. Maybe discard the dead leaves and hope for new growth.
I probably shouldn't be giving advice because the vals I have is sucking too.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

So that's the water change done. I pulled out all the Vals and removed the dying leaves. Upon closer inspection I noticed that there was some growth, as you can see on one of the photos below. It's nothing major, but encouraging nevertheless. There were plenty of healthy white roots which have actually grown a lot since I first got these plants. 










Andakin, all advice is greatly appreciated! Would burying just the roots work? The plant would need plenty of those not to float away though, mine still do when I put a hand near them. It's fine when the fish swims through the leaves though, which is good.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

I know you explained the darkness of the photo but I personally don't think theres enough light for the val to do well. Perhaps thats the reason for the larger leaves melting. Any new growth will result in smaller leaves, but they will at least be healthy.

It's good that you removed the dying leaves; they will never recover. The plant can allocate its resource in producing new healthy growth (I recommend removing some of the anubius leaves too). 

If worst comes to worst, be adventurous and remove all but one or two small leaves and replant. I've had success doing this with swords. It takes forever to regrow but I ended up with way more runners.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

I know most ppl use and recommend 6500k bulbs here. I use that in my 10, my shrimp tank, and my 2.5, and everything in those grow beautifully, but everything in my 20 really struggled with that. I tried 2 different brands both "plant bulbs" and nothing grew. I switched to a 10000k bulb, in my 20 long, and my plant growth exploded in that tank. If you try everything else, you can always try switching out the bulb.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

It was hard enough finding 6500K bulbs, nevermind 10000K! Honestly, it took me forever and I ended up paying a fortune. Most bulbs are in the 2700-3000 range as they're just regular lamp bulbs. I don't have proper aquarium lights :/


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Vals and Crypts are notorious for "melting" when first planted. With the healthy white roots, yours should come back. A nice foreground plant is Crypt 'petchii.' I love mine and they didn't melt like some Crypts.

+1 Aqua Aurora on liquid carbon like Seachem Flourish Excel: It will wipe out Vals and Anacharis quicker than anything. Seachem even acknowledges the problem. I use root tabs and for the plants with rhizomes and those that float I use a liquid fertilizer.

Your plants are the same ones I have and mine grow well without CO2 so I wouldn't worry about supplementing. CO2 is more of a requirement for high light plants. Like you, I prefer no muss, no fuss.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I really hope they'll grow, the Vals are so pretty! I found the plant you mentioned on ebay, I'll consider buying it at some point. I'm handing in my CV tomorrow to a store and I'm really hoping I'll get the job so I can finally spend some money on my tanks! Is this it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cryptocor...0?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3cea9b9bc4

Are there any other hardy plants that you could recommend? My favourites are definitely stem plants, but sadly the only one of those I have left is my rotala roundfolia which is recovering in the 3 gallon. I've had luck with Java Fern and Anubias Nana, but those grow so slowly that they don't really do much for the tank and they'e not particularly interesting. But at least they haven't died haha.

I don't think I can even get Excel here in the UK. What do you think about this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-...8?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item1c48138f74 500ml would last me forever and it's relatively cheap. 


While this isn't particularly plant related, I thought I might just as well ask. I've found some nice rocks while walking the dog the other day and I was wondering whether it would be safe to add them to the tanks? How should I clean them? I'd prefer not to use any chemicals. Would boiling them be enough?


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

You might need to upgrade your lighting before you decide to use ferts. I don't think plants can fully utilize the added nutrients in low light.

You can still have a very nice low light, low maintenance, cost effective planted tank. Just be selective on the plants you put in.

I really like the look of crypts, doesn't matter which variety. Too bad it's such an expensive plant (here).


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Andakin, I have 11W (equivilent to 55W, but energy saving) 6500K lights for both tanks. Isn't that plenty? As I said, the pictures looked dark becuase of:
1) my phone camera is awful
2) the substrate is black
3) light was directly facing the camera

If you were to come into my room and have a look at the tanks in person, you'd see a drastic difference. 

When I put the lamp on top of the tank lid and have the bulb pointing downwards, it's _very_ bright. The light penetrates the water all the way to the bottom of the tank which, as far as I'm aware, is a good thing. The reason why I can't do that 100% of the time is because these are _desk lamps_ and there's no way I can have them sitting on top of the aquarium safely. It also becomes difficult to perform maintenance and feed the fish. I'm also afraid that the lid may crack under the weight of the lamp, which is why the lamps are sitting behind the tank on a pile of books. This also allows me to keep all the cables hidden. 

Point is, I really do believe that the lights I have are enough. They're a big upgrade from the 2700K tiny desk lamp I had before.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

I didn't mean anything negative by it when I said your tanks didn't appear well-lit. I'm sure you know your own lights better than me judging from a photo. I have never used bulb-styled lighting so I shouldn't make any assumptions. A 55W single bulb is very impressive considering that it's the same output as a T5HO tube.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I agree about the Crypts. There are a lot of varieties. I told someone the other day I wouldn't mind having an Anubias/Crypt tank...then realized most of my plants ARE Crypts or Anubias. 

Subwassertang is a nice plant that settles to the substrate or can be tied to something and one of my favorites. Easy to grow.

Round Pellia(Susswassertang) Shrimp,Co2,fish,live plants,aquarium,moss | eBay


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I'll have a look at some crypts when I get the chance. Susswassertang is such a pretty plant! I've never heard of it before. Too bad it's so expensive :/ 

Any advice on the ferts I linked to and the rocks? 


Andakin, sorry if I came across as rude in my last post. I feel bad now. Thanks for your input though, I really appreciate it


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1289

You could try a "Wanted" Post in the above section of TFK. Use your Betta Fish sign on. Or, you could do a such a post in Betta Fish Classifieds.

The fertilizer sounds fine. Maybe you could ask what they'd charge to add a small plug of Subwassertang/Round Pellia if they have any. They do say they use the fertilizer in their planted tanks. Might get lucky.

Can't help you with the rocks, though. I know I've seen the subject somewhere but can't recall exactly. Maybe "Habitats?" Something about vinegar.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm just back from the pet store and I bought more plants. I bought two pots of Ludwigia Repens and one pot of young Narrow Leaf Java Fern. I couldn't find any crypts - said pet store doesn't have the best variety of plants to pick from. 

I'm hoping for good results with both plants, the guy at the store said he has them in his tanks and they're great. 

I'll order the ferts today, sadly the seller doesn't have any plants available but that's fine. I'm not sure how I feel about ordering live plants online after my last experience :/


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Wish I could ship you some of my Subwassertang; I have a bunch.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I take it you're really fond of that plant haha! I'll look out for it at my local pet stores and if I find some I'll give you a shout 


I found a baby ramshorn snail on one of the plants I bought yesterday but I think it's dead :/ that's the second snail now, it makes me so sad


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