# How can I know for sure what is causing my ph problems?



## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I am starting a new 20 gallon tank which will have 4 cory catfish and one betta. I planted the tank and put in black Petco sand for my cories. When I tested the ph of the tank, it was at 9 which is way too high. It may even be higher because my testing strips stop at 9. 
The ph of my other tanks with gravel is at 7.5 so the only thing I can think of that would bring my 20 gallon's ph to 9 is the sand. It is normal aquarium sand so it shouldn't cause this problem. Other people on here have used this sand without a single problem and they love it so I don't know why it would be different for me. 
What can I do to know for sure if the sand is the problem? I spent $40 on it so I don't want to just throw it out only to find that it wasn't responsible for the ph spike. Is there anything I can do to figure out if there could be something other than the sand that is affecting the ph? Should I try emptying out my entire 20 gallon, rinsing everything off, and starting over?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Is there anything like shells, or rocks they cause higher PH.


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## whimsicalbrainpan (Aug 4, 2012)

Did you use tap water to fill your tank or bottled? If you use tap have you tested the Ph? Maybe you could scoop some of the sand out of the tank, put it in water you know to have a low Ph, and test it after the sand has been in for a while.

I wouldn't give up yet. I'd rinse and refill. I'm still kind of new to all this though, and some may have better advice.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I think the test is the problem I would think the fish would have died in 9.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Yes, are there any shells or rocks that you put in there that could possibly affect the PH?
I have Petco sand in various colors in all of my tanks, haven't had any trouble so far....

I noticed you're using the strips.....might want to take a sample of water into your local Petco/LPS and have it tested with a liquid test kit just to double-check before you break down the tank or anything. Strips are known to be rather inaccurate....


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> Yes, are there any shells or rocks that you put in there that could possibly affect the PH?
> I have Petco sand in various colors in all of my tanks, haven't had any trouble so far....
> 
> I noticed you're using the strips.....might want to take a sample of water into your local Petco/LPS and have it tested with a liquid test kit just to double-check before you break down the tank or anything. Strips are known to be rather inaccurate....


You just repeated what I said and rearanged the words.


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

hmmm this may be something to think about??! I had petco black sand in my tanks as well as rocks and my PH was 8.2 which ive heard is quite high...now im wondering if the sand and rocks were causing it?? I tie plants to the rocks but have chosen to go bare bottom lately...im thinking I should check my ph now that I have bare bottoms, no rocks and IAL leaves...maybe its a normal ph now!?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

IALs help but just 7.5 is a very high PH many african cichlids like 8.2 mine is 7.6 which is hard water but still works if I remember above 8.0 is not good for Bettas and cories.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> Maybe you could scoop some of the sand out of the tank, put it in water you know to have a low Ph, and test it after the sand has been in for a while.


Thanks for the tip, I'm doing it right now. Also, there are no rocks or shells that could cause the ph rise. I have tested my tap water ph and it is at 7.5 like the rest of my tanks. I have already lost 2 of my 4 cories and the other 2 are barely alive. They hardly eat and almost never move. My plants are also turning yellow and dying from the ph.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ChoclateBetta said:


> You just repeated what I said and rearanged the words.


Well, I apologize.....aside from agreeing with you about the shells and rocks, that was not my intention nor did I see that thats what I was doing.

Hmm...it really does sound like its the sand then.....thats strange. I wonder why this sand would cause this kind of problem for some and not others? I would assume it would all come from the same place....and I've bought locally and ordered online with no problems....


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry if I offended you. I use black sand thing with calcium boost PH. So decorations affect PH.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm using black petco sand.... other than an initial boug of bubblin up and floating all over the place, it was fine for me...


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> I'm using black petco sand.... other than an initial boug of bubblin up and floating all over the place, it was fine for me...


That's what I don't get. How can sand be perfectly fine for one person, and terrible for another. It doesn't make sense! I guess I'll find out if it's the sand in a few hours when my tap water test is over.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Same with me floated up a while and sunk down 7.6 PH it is probably a decoration problem.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

So you don't have any liquid test kits?
I think you should pick them up. At least the nitrate test, will help a lot. :-D
What sort of aeration do you have in this tank?
I'd do a 25% water change right now.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm going to do a 25% water change now. The only decorations I have are a fake log and some silk plants. If it's not the sand, I might try testing the log just in case. I have an aqua clear 30 filter to aerate the tank. I'm going to do 100% water change next weekend maybe and just try starting over. I'll probably loose my remaining 2 cories though.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

How big is the smaller tank you have? If it's 5 gallons it'll be fine to put the cories in there for now.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Hey wait cories and Bettas can supplement low oxygen levels with a labyrinth organ and low oxygen levels affect PH.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> How big is the smaller tank you have? If it's 5 gallons it'll be fine to put the cories in there for now.


I have a 10 gallon that my betta who has fin rot is living in until he recovers. He will then move into the 20 gallon with the cories. I could put the cories in there, but I wanted to medicate my betta soon and I don't think I could do that with the cories. Should I put the cories in the 10 gallon and wait to medicate until after I fix the ph?



> Hey wait cories and Bettas can supplement low oxygen levels with a labyrinth organ and low oxygen levels affect PH.


I have never heard of this before, but how does low oxygen affect the ph. Does it make it higher or something?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Never mind high oxygen is higher PH and low oxygen is lower PH but what is temp?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I've never heard that either...

How bad is the fin rot? It should go away on it's own, really.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Really I always assumed it was common knowledge but you have to admit it helps explain the labyrinth.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

In the summer, the temp was at about 82, but now it's at 78-80. Does this mean that the oxygen levels are low?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Uh, yea... that's not true.. That's not having any effect on your pH.


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> Well, I apologize.....aside from agreeing with you about the shells and rocks, that was not my intention nor did I see that thats what I was doing.
> 
> Hmm...it really does sound like its the sand then.....thats strange. I wonder why this sand would cause this kind of problem for some and not others? I would assume it would all come from the same place....and I've bought locally and ordered online with no problems....


 
Could there be limestone in the sand...i was reading an article about limestone in rocks being the cause of high PH, makes me wonder if their could by chance be lyme in the sand??


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

what is the pH testing out of the tap?

Without that reading it is impossible to say what might be causing the pH to swing so much.

Usually a pH swing of a few points is not something to worry about, on certain more fragile fish then yes it can be a problem. Most fish in the hobby these days are all tank raised and not wild caught so can withstand a lot more parameter changes.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Uh, yea... that's not true.. That's not having any effect on your pH.


It is true oxygen content affects PH but that is not the reason in this case.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

pH is 7.5 out of tap and 9 in the tank..


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

It was in Peter hiscocks aquarium plants.


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Knowing the water hardness will also help, you can find this from your local supply company on their website.

What exactly, brand substrate are you using?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What kind of decorations are there?


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> How bad is the fin rot? It should go away on it's own, really.


It's pretty bad, so I think I need meds to cure it. Here's a pic.











> Knowing the water hardness will also help, you can find this from your local supply company on their website.
> What exactly, brand substrate are you using?


My water is hard, about 180ppm. I think I should get a pillow to soften it. Here is the link to the exact sand that I got: http://www.petco.com/product/115883/Petco-Black-Aquarium-Sand.aspx?CoreCat=MM_FishSupplies_GravelSubstrates


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Driftwood and IAL lower PH.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

That fin rot isn;t too bad. with hard water it is very difficult to say his tail will heal. but the finrot should go away with good care.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Then the ph lowering stuff I suggested will help heal finrot plus double the water changes.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> with hard water it is very difficult to say his tail will heal. but the finrot should go away with good care.


Does hard water affect healing? I want his tail to recover fully, so do you think I should get a water softener? Once I fix whatever is causing the ph of 9, I will put some peat moss or driftwood in to lower my tap ph from 7.5 to help him heal. Just a quick side note in case it affects anything but my betta is not in the 20 gallon with the high ph, he's in a 10 gallon right now to heal from his fin rot.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

7.0 is really healthy.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

if the water is that hard...
it will be very hard to lower the hardness and ial and other organic acid benefits becomes less effective.

I really do suggest to just help him clear his rot first. I wouldnt reccommend a water softener either... just leave it as it. your fish may not return to his former glory, but in hard water he can be equally as healthy. whereas if you tamper with the ph and water hardness to much, it may be bad for him.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Okay I guess I'll just leave the water as it is. I don't want to get involved in trying to keep the ph and hardness down which would just lead to fluctuations. Do you think the tears will heal but leave scars or do you think his tail might remain a little ragged?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I read about a cichlid that lives in water with a PH of 10.


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