# Perfect HM?



## lillyandquigly

Can anyone show me a picture of what the ideal male hm form would be, and the ideal female hm form would be? Also same for hmpk's. Thanks, Lillian


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## lillyandquigly

No answers?


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## Catw0man

I'm not a show-betta expert, but I think these would be good images to go by for the HM standard:


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## LittleBlueFishlets

Basement Bettas is one of the top-ranked breeders, and is also a member on this forum. On her facebook page, she provides photos and critiques. She's also sometimes give breeding advice on potential "partners." 
https://www.facebook.com/BasementBettas

And Karen MacAuley has a bunch of HMs on her website: http://www.freewebs.com/quicksilverchihuahuas/mybettasplendens.htm


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## trilobite

The female looks like a hmpk to me.
Heres some for the males, HM is A and HMPK is B


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## lillyandquigly

Those are really nice, thanks!


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## lillyandquigly

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371221404 so I'm assuming this guy would be bad form? He's really pretty but that form doesn't really match


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## trilobite

Good spotting. Yip his anal and dorsal are too long and caudal too short. He also has jagged edges on his fins and it looks like his first dorsal ray is too short. Caudal edges are very nice and sharp though and nice colours. He is young so his finnage probably has a bit of growing to still do


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## lillyandquigly

He's got coloring I really like, if I could find a betta with good form and that coloring I would be staring at him all day! One of my goals for breeding is to get females to have the nice build of an hmpk but still be an hm, i know that wouldn't really work though probably


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## lillyandquigly

How about this one? http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371169068


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## Kiara1125

He looks like he has too much branching, so his caudal is a mess as well as some bent rays on his anal fin. His dorsal also has some short rays in the front.


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## lillyandquigly

Ok, good I'm learning something


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## Basement Bettas

Catw0man said:


> I'm not a show-betta expert, but I think these would be good images to go by for the HM standard:


Male yes.. female.. no. Not for HM anyway..


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## Basement Bettas

trilobite said:


> The female looks like a hmpk to me.
> Heres some for the males, HM is A and HMPK is B


Understand this is NOT the IBC standard.. you need to be a member to get a copy of the standards. They change slightly through the years..


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## Basement Bettas

That Blue BF male has excessive branching and his tail is short. The fact that he is not *in your face* flaring leads me to think he is a wuss or not feeling well. Neither of which you want. Breed for aggression as well as form/color.

Also do not like the dorsal. Narrow base and the first rays are short. Not even a good BF. Need that blue/white to be 50/50. Not enough blue in him. I'd say there are better but lately there is nothing but mudd on AB. Banleagn has had some decent royals/steels last few days, though nothing to get real excited about.


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## Basement Bettas

If you are going to try and breed nice fish, and work to the IBC standard.. first join the IBC. Then you get access to the breeders by the membership roster. Look at show results and see who is winning in the color class you are interested in. Right now my royal and steel girls are pretty much sweeping their classes. I have only one male and he is headed to convention this week then into a spawn tank.. or I'd be showing in the males too.. lol. So if you are interested in irids, me and who ever is winning in the males would be who to contact for stock.

Otherwise you need to develop your eye and learn to pick apart the faults in a fish. I'm real picky.. but some things you can live with. Rounded edges and narrow dorsals are easy to improve. Sloped anals are a bi-ch. Also got to recognize good ever all balance and not get lost in a heavy branched tail. Also need to see when over branched as that will be a pita to straighten out too.


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## lillyandquigly

Does the membership cost money? I would buy from you now but I'm saving money right now for all the stuff I need, including the fish. I'd like to start with a good fish and not have to improve form or anything really, just working on getting good colors


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## Kiara1125

Yes, it does. This was taken directly from ibcbettas.org.

*Electronic Membership with Color FLARE!*
$20 Individual
$22 Family
$14 Junior (16 yrs. & Under)

*Paper Membership with black & white mailed issue of FLARE!*
$35 Individual (North America only)
$37 Family (North America only)
$40 Individual (all other areas)
$42 Family (all other areas)
$29 Junior ** (all locations)
$50 Associate (fish hobby organizations and commercial entities)
$500 Lifetime Membership (for individuals and families only)

You can also look at this on BF.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47123


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## lillyandquigly

Do you have to pay every month or is it just one time?


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## Kiara1125

You can pay for a lifetime, but you have to pay by year otherwise. It's a magazine subscription OR a website subscription. Hence, electronic and paper memberships.


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## lillyandquigly

How much does lifetime cost?


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## Kiara1125

$500


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## lillyandquigly

lol if I do it I think I'll do the year payments


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## lillyandquigly

Would this be good butterfly lines? What about his form? http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371473404


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## Kiara1125

Lol good idea.

And, I would try to get the red aligned if you want the butterfly pattern. He's pretty for sure and the lines seem straight for butterflying for the most part.


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## lillyandquigly

I want to breed Hm butterflies and eventually hmpk butterflies. Does he have pretty good overall form?


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## Kiara1125

I believe that he does. It's hard to see with my iPod and his cellophane fins. Although, he has a stout body. He would need to be bred with a female with a longer body.


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## lillyandquigly

I want to get the best female possible because I heard the female passes on more genes


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## Basement Bettas

lillyandquigly said:


> Would this be good butterfly lines? What about his form? http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371473404


need to post the pics somewhere as when auction ends.. so does the link..:-(


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## Basement Bettas

lillyandquigly said:


> I want to get the best female possible because I heard the female passes on more genes


Yes.. they do. I see their *type* in most all of the fry, so I am harder on them and look for a male to complement them. I pick my girls first and then see who would be a good cross depending on where I want to go with the line.


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## Basement Bettas

lillyandquigly said:


> I want to breed Hm butterflies and eventually hmpk butterflies. Does he have pretty good overall form?


BF's are marble based fish. You will get mostly solids, some marbles and generally a few BF patterns. Most will also not be the ideal 50/50 split. So look for a good irid line that has marble in it, and then look for nice patterned fish to cross in.


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## Basement Bettas

Make sure the form is real good.. level anal and not too long. Good spread without being overly branched. Will take you a few generations to get some of the kinks worked out and consistent.. but should have some decent patterns by then.


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## lillyandquigly

I might have to wait a few more years then I anticipated, sounds like this is going to take up a lot more space then my mom wants. I do want to keep learning though, so I can breed them one day. So if butterflies have the marble gene then breeding two different colored bf to each other would probably leave me with a lot more marbles then butterflies right?


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## Lamb

The stickys in the breeding section have great links and info on form, color, etc.


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