# What is this? It looks like his fins are stuck together



## Sagat

Housing
What size is your tank? 20G long
What temperature is your tank? 79F
Does your tank have a filter? HOB, with no charcoal
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
Inhabitants? Betta (1), Otocinclus (5), Assassin Snail (2), Harlequin Rasboras(5), lots of Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Food
What type of food do you feed your fish? New Life Spectrum Growth
How often do you feed your fish? Once to twice a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? As little as possible, but averaging about one a month
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? About 25%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Added StressCoat+ for the betta's fins

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.5


I've been vigilantly watching my bettas fins since we got him and they just seem to keep getting farther and farther away from the beautiful fins he had when we bought him... 

It looks like his fins are fused together. The problem is, I can't get him to flare for anything, so I can't be sure what's going on. If I strain really hard, I think I can see a fuzzy white patch on his anal fin, but I really have to do some unusual things to see it (LED Maglite, shown from above, at just the right angle).

His ventral fins have been turning kinda dreadlocks for a while now, but they've been getting longer, so I didn't give it much thought.

Then, about last week after he came out of quarantine for aggression, I noticed his anal, caudal and dorsal fins all exhibiting the same characteristics.

I'm completely at a loss, so I'm just going to include pictures of him shortly after we bought him 2.5 months ago, 3 weeks ago and today.


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## callistra

You need to be doing a minimum of 25% weekly changes using a siphon to vaccum areas.. it looks like you have some live plants.. so around the plants. Don't disturb them.

Can you share a fuller picture to have an idea of how planted your tank is?

What kit are you using to test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

At this point I would do a series of 2-3 50% changes over the next few days to see if he doesn't perk up.


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## Laki

Looks to be fin melt. 

Fin melt is one form of advanced fin rot. It can occur in situations of chronic bad water or a sudden change resulting in shock. 

I cured my VT's melt with clean water and IAL (indian almond leaf) in about a month. I kept him in a reduced 3 gallon for that period with changes every 2 days, clean warm water seemed to cure Ludendorff.


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## sainthogan

That is what clamped fins look like. This happens when they are ill. It looks like he's had some color changes as well. Shine a flashlight on him and see if you see any gold or rust colored dust or (if it's really bad) a gold or rust colored coating. This is velvet, and will need to be treated asap. Velvet is already present in the water, and many pet store bought fish already are infected with 
it. It will spread quickly when a fish's immune system is compromised - it usually happens because unclean water conditions are taxing his health. 
And as pp stated, you need to be doing more water changes. Were you using any other type of water conditioner before the stress coat?


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## Sagat

Three things that might be relevant:


My tank is a naturally planted tank with medium lighting and relatively healthy plants (they're green and growing, just not as fast as I'd like).
My betta was harassing his tankmates, keeping them herded into one corner and building a bubblenest. My three livebearers eventually all ended up dead, which I'm attributing to stress since two of them were had no obvious wounds or signs of disease.
I quarantined him for 24hrs in a large dip-n-pour floated in another tank to try and mitigate any territorial aggression. After I reintroduced him to the tank, he stopped herding and chasing his tankmates, but also stopped building a bubblenest, patrolling whenever the lights and actually resting from time to time -- Before that he was always, always moving.
 *
@Callistra:*
Yup. Included is a pic of my tank from 3 days ago. I'm using the API liquid test kit and I've got a testing log that's been zero since I started the tank, which I'm told can be normal with a naturally planted tank.

I've been trying to stay as close to what I've seen recommended in Walstad's and the only place I've deviated is water changes (I've done more than she's recommended). Vacuuming it is a big nono, since it removes all the nutrients that are supposed to feed back into the plants.

*@Laki:
*I was worried about fin rot, because of my inital thread: 
New owner questions - My betta has split, raggedy fins :/

Can it be fin rot if his fins have grown? His fins have grown longer (by maybe .5" judging by the first and second pictures. That dark line under his anal fin in the last picture is the end of his dorsal and his ventrals look to be almost 2x the length they were in the first picture and have white tips on the end, which were previously pointed out to me in a thread as new growth (he has some nice white clean growth at the end of his anal fin as well). 

*@sainthogan:*
I think a lot of the color changes are due to the camera and tank conditions than his body. The first tank was a minibow with nothing in it, the second is a heavily planted tank with tons of tannins from the driftwood in it.

On top of that, I'm starting to suspect he might be a marble and not a multi-color, because the dark spots on his head and body seem to be changing.

No additives were added to the tank water prior to the stresscoat.

Water changes are only done with conditioned tap water that's been sitting around for multiple days and the occassional RO.


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## Sagat

Forgot the picture of my tank.


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## Laki

okay 1- I am just in LOVE with your tank!! I want this in my house!!! 

Secondly, no. The tail will not regrow if it's under rot. The link you provided looks like his was biting his tail. (Also, he looks exactly like my VT Lude, who had melt!) I think your fish bit his tail, or lost it in the filter, and then it re-grew but the ends scrunched up. Maybe it's a bit of fin melt, because I can see his rays bent at the ends. This is what my VTs tail looked like when it grew back, it looked like he was pinching the ends together like clamped fins but it was different. He even swam differently. 

Honestly, I don't understand parameters so I don't know what to tell you about that. But clean IAL water should clear it up.


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## Sagat

Thanks  I've been meaning to post a thread with the progress on my tank, but have been too busy to.

More pictures of my betta, using my phone and an LED maglite to get a better look at him.

The white spot on the first picture isn't on him, it's a snail or a copepod or something.


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## Sagat

_(Missed this section somehow when I copied the form_)

*Symptoms and Treatment*
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Fins clumping together
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Less aggressive, lays on the bottom of the tank more, less active 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Clumping has been slowly happening to his ventrals as they grew out. The rest of his fins followed suit about 6 days ago.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Not yet. I wanted to get advice before I did anything.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? None, but a history of fin biting or accidental ripping: Click here
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1

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After my tap water's sat out overnight, I'll do a water change and see if that helps. 50% change seems scary, though. 

Won't that suck out something beneficial? I pored through my copy of Walstad's book and she doesn't mention anything about water changes, except to control nutrient spikes in the first 6 weeks or so.


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## Laki

Do you use water conditioner?? You mentioned aging your tap water, this process does not remove nitrogen very quickly ... Or is it chloramine? Here >> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=46801

You need to use water conditioner anyway.
a 50% change would be great- I actually suggest that high of a change to remove or dilute a water problem like ammonia or something. Could you move him to a smaller tank like 1-2 gallons while you moniter him?


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## Sagat

I generally use API Tap water conditioner, then let it sit at least 24hrs in a covered (sometimes partially covered) 5gal bucket. Then the Stress+ coat goes in after the new water gets added to the tank, so technically I'm using 3 conditioning methods.

I did move him back to my 1G minibow this morning with a dose of AQ salt as if he had fin rot. I'm about to do another water change, just to see if I can get him to perk up. He's been sitting on the bottom of the tank every time I check on him, though upon seeing me, he usually perks up and starts swimming around a little.

I may give him a brine shrimp or two, but I'll probably hold off for a day, since he's pretty well fed for a betta.


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## Laki

Aw, such a sin. Any idea how old he is? (sorry if you mentioned this on page one)


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## Sagat

I ended up not giving him any brine shrimp, since the little tiny cubes they come in are way more than he can eat in even two weeks and the last thing I want to deal with is SBD.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how old he is. I'm guessing he's a year, judging from his fins and his size. 

I know my LFS buys some of their fish from breeders, but I can't be certain where this guy came from.

After about 3 days of AQ salt, Stresscoat+ and new water, his anal fin started to unclamp. Last night was the first night I didn't use water from his old tank, since I managed to find some oak leaves to add to his tank. I'll probably continue oak leaves, stresscoat+ and AQ salt til the weekend, then move him to the newly planted 2.5G my six-year old and I put together.

None of the other fish in his tank have developed any issues and my plants are all healthy, so it's starting to look to me like stress from a month of trying to defend/establish his territory. 

I guess it's a lesson learned on how aggressive bettas can be for me. The first thing he did when I put him in his old tank was home in on a pond snail and demolish it. It got to the point where, with all the other fish gone, he started to chase the otos. :/ I suppose I can rest more comfortably knowing he'll live happily in his planted 2.5G


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## bryzy

I just wanted to say, since you live in Champaign, have you ever heard of Mascoutah? Also most of my veiltail boys do this. Their fins are just clamped. sorry if this didn't help and was off topic.


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## Sagat

I'm from Chicago originally, so it didn't ring a bell, but I've been to StL a few times. Does that count? 

His fins continue to improve. I'll post pix when I can get him in a position that's good for comparison


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## Laki

Glad that he's beginning to un-melt!


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## Withered

The same thing happened to my fish and I had no idea what was going on, and unfortunately I caught it too late and he didn't make it, so i'm glad to hear that yours is pulling through and I hope he continues to get better and better! I'm so glad these forums are here because without them i'd be at a total loss. Good luck Sagat!


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## Sagat

Here's a pic from tonight. Since it's my son's fish, I included him on the caretaking. He's in his original 1G minibow with a dose of blackwater extract AND a few oak leaves.

Unfortunately, part of growing up is making mistakes and Beatty (my son's name for him) lost about 1/8" inch of from the tip of one of his anal fin.

His tankmates the rasboras just came down with what I'm pretty sure is slime disease, though the otos so far seem to have escaped unscathed. However, the otos also weren't harassed by Beatty. If nothing develops on them, I'll have confirmation that that's what the problem was.

(Rasboras are now in a hospital tank with oak leaves, StressCoat+ and a light dose of AQ salt, for anyone who's interested about non-bettas 

What a day!


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## Laki

Like the spit of Ludendorff he is!
Your set up will prevent it from spreading (probably) so now we just wait. Ludendorff bit the ends of his off when he was recovering from fin melt. Fingers crossed for you guys!

And you're right, we all start somewhere.


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## Sagat

I always thought stress just meant you got tired a little bit and started behaving weird til you suddenly keeled over... I didn't know in fish that it also meant 'spontaneously sprout weird fungii all over your body'. At least nobody died, right?


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## Laki

Well, it does happen  Ludendorff had been living in a terrible little cube thing in the store and he had mild rot- by the time I got him home (running through a spontaneous snow storm) he had become lethargic and the low immune response triggered fin melt. He was like that for a month. So, yea stress can do funny things!


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## Sagat

*New home!*

Pix of Beatty in his new 2.5g home. The water has no driftwood in it, so it's super clear and the size of it makes it really easy to get good shots of him.

Some more symptoms presented themselves, which make me doubt my diagnosis. I was planning to put the 7 female dragonscales I'm getting from Chard56 in there, so any insight on what might have been in the tank would be greatly appreciated. Right now, I'm terrified that it was columnaris.

On 2/3, the day after Beatty showed symptoms, a neon tetra in my 29G developed fading of his red stripe. Somewhat off-point, but possibly relevant. Fwiw, params on that tank also read similar to this one (0 NH3, NO2, NO3, 7.5 pH)

On 2/6, I noticed that one of the harlequin rasboras in Beatty's tank developed white patches on their sides. One had a weird blister on his lip that had been seemingly benign for a few weeks, so rather than take any chances, I QTd all 5 of them.

Yesterday (2/9) I dosed the QT tank with AQ salt, bumped the heater up to 80. Noticed two neons that might have been losing their vibrancy and one that looked like it might have a grey slime spot on it.

Today, the one sick rasbora started to act like he was on his death bed. Luckily, when I noticed it, I had just gotten back from the LFS with Kanaplex. Dosed the QT tank with it. Went looking for the two neons in the 29G tank to QT them, and found them dead in the water.

*HOWEVER*, the 5 otos in the tank have been living happily and healthily for the last week and have developed no symptoms. Similarly, the corys and angelfish in the other tank are also healthy and have no symptoms (that I've seen yet).

It sounds alot like columnaris to me, but I wanted to get a second opinion. I've also read two things that are a little at odds. 


Flexbacter Columnaris (the kind I think I have) is an opportunistic bacteria that's just always there. Treat fish and move on.
Columnaris is highly contagious and impossible to eliminate. Tear down tank, bleach it, throw away plants and start from scratch.
If Kanaplex kills columnaris, and I have strain 1, then theoretically that's all I have to do, yes?

And if I have the other strain (apparently there are 3 others besides flexbacter, but the other two exist at high temps (86F+) then I have to go with the teardown/rebuild process?

I kneejerked when I found the dead neons and dosed both tanks and the QT tank with Kanaplex.


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## Laki

Sorry about the tetras and rasboras


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## Sagat

Thanks, Laki. It's okay, though. It'd be much worse if we'd lost Beatty and luckily, thanks to my previous experience treating fin rot, he survived as if nothing happened.


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## Laki

That's good news! His belly looks a little round but otherwise his fins don't seem that bad.


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## Sagat

Yeah, I'd considered putting him in an Epsom salt bath, but I just cut back on feedings. Hopefully it sorts itself out, but I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of Zucchini in there


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