# Nitrites won't go down!!



## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

So I just wasted my time with 2 back to back ~75% water changes to attempt to bring my nitrites down. After testing the nitrites were at the same level. I tested my tap levels and it's at the same level as the tank. I believe the nitrites is off the charts but the purple is a completely different purple than on the charts so i'm having trouble with that. I added 2~3x the dose of Prime to both my water changes to no avail. What should I do?


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> So I just wasted my time with 2 back to back ~75% water changes to attempt to bring my nitrites down. After testing the nitrites were at the same level. I tested my tap levels and it's at the same level as the tank. I believe the nitrites is off the charts but the purple is a completely different purple than on the charts so i'm having trouble with that. I added 2~3x the dose of Prime to both my water changes to no avail. What should I do?


What test kit are you using? What are your readings?


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Are you shaking your #2 nitrate bottle?


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

marshallsea said:


> What test kit are you using? What are your readings?


API Freshwater Master Kit



marshallsea said:


> Are you shaking your #2 nitrate bottle?


Yep. 30 seconds for #2 bottle, one minute for the vial.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> API Freshwater Master Kit
> 
> 
> Yep. 30 seconds for #2 bottle, one minute for the vial.


Is your tap always high? Either way find another water source. If you know someone in another part of town, test water there.


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

Your test kit might be old. Try it on bottled water or a completely different water source near you and see if it reads the same.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

marshallsea said:


> Is your tap always high? Either way find another water source. If you know someone in another part of town, test water there.


 Never tested it for Nitrites before today. 


peachii said:


> Your test kit might be old. Try it on bottled water or a completely different water source near you and see if it reads the same.


Not old, bought it a few weeks ago. Just tested bottled water with a reading of 0ppm.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Nitrite? or nitrate? I'm confused.

R


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

rickey said:


> Nitrite? or nitrate? I'm confused.
> 
> R


 Nitrites. Just realized the shaking bottle question was referring to nitrates, whoops.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Whoops


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

lol everyone ignore my response to peachii, we're talking about nitrites. and I still have not come up with a solution.. my betta doesn't look to be affected by it so far though.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> lol everyone ignore my response to peachii, we're talking about nitrites. and I still have not come up with a solution.. my betta doesn't look to be affected by it so far though.


Consuming nitrites is a function of the nitrogen cycle. IMO, once the bacteria adjust to the excess nitrites it should be no problem. Have you tested today? Have you looked into an alternate water source? Are you getting nitrAtes?


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

marshallsea said:


> Consuming nitrites is a function of the nitrogen cycle. IMO, once the bacteria adjust to the excess nitrites it should be no problem. Have you tested today? Have you looked into an alternate water source? Are you getting nitrAtes?


the tank he is currently in is not cycled. nitrates are there but they've been there for awhile so i don't know exactly whats going on. this also poses a problem for my currently fishless cycling 10g. the nitrites have been pretty high with no sign of nitrate for over a week and i cant do a water change to bring the nitrites down like suggested by some because my tap has nitrites. don't really know where i'd get an alternative water source for every week :-?


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> the tank he is currently in is not cycled. nitrates are there but they've been there for awhile so i don't know exactly whats going on. this also poses a problem for my currently fishless cycling 10g. the nitrites have been pretty high with no sign of nitrate for over a week and i cant do a water change to bring the nitrites down like suggested by some because my tap has nitrites. don't really know where i'd get an alternative water source for every week :-?


 How much nitrates in the tank he's in? Do you have nitrates in your tap water? If you have no nitrates in your tap but have nitrates in his tank, then you have cycled but it's in the process of adapting to the nitrites. No point in changing water only to add nitrites back in.
I had to find an alternate source so I went to friends houses, where I worked and to businesses with an outside hose(preferably in the back out of sight.) and asked if I could get some water. Test all until you find the water you need. Then you can change his water. Continue cycling your fishless with your tap so your cycle will adapt to your tap and you won't have to fetch water.
This is just my idea. If someone else has an idea, I'm sure Flynn is stressing and would welcome help.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

marshallsea said:


> How much nitrates in the tank he's in? Do you have nitrates in your tap water? If you have no nitrates in your tap but have nitrates in his tank, then you have cycled but it's in the process of adapting to the nitrites. No point in changing water only to add nitrites back in.
> I had to find an alternate source so I went to friends houses, where I worked and to businesses with an outside hose(preferably in the back out of sight.) and asked if I could get some water. Test all until you find the water you need. Then you can change his water. Continue cycling your fishless with your tap so your cycle will adapt to your tap and you won't have to fetch water.
> This is just my idea. If someone else has an idea, I'm sure Flynn is stressing and would welcome help.


Tap - ~3ppm. Tank water - ~2ppm. That's weird since my 10 gal is 0. Do you know if my 10g will cycle with the nitrites being so high for about a week? My ammonia was very high for a long time and it was only until until i did a water change that the ammonia started going down. Thank you very much for your help you've been very active. Yes, any help would be very much appreciated.


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## marshallsea (Apr 30, 2012)

Flynn said:


> Tap - ~3ppm. Tank water - ~2ppm. That's weird since my 10 gal is 0. Do you know if my 10g will cycle with the nitrites being so high for about a week? My ammonia was very high for a long time and it was only until until i did a water change that the ammonia started going down. Thank you very much for your help you've been very active. Yes, any help would be very much appreciated.[/QUOTEI ]
> I don't know for sure but I think it will cycle, it may take longer with high nitrites but it will probably be a cycle for high nitrites. If your high nitrites in your source water go down, you may have a mini cycle. There may be a different bacteria for low and high nitrites. That is me making it up as I go. Iv'e never seen this.Either way I believe it will cycle.


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

marshallsea said:


> Whoops


:roll:


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

What would you "say" the nitrite reading is? Anything more than that lavender color (#3 on the scale) is not good for your livestock. Good that you're triple dosing Prime.

The only way I know to have nitrite is by oxidizing ammonia (nitrosomonas). How it gets into your tapwater is beyond me. Anyway, pick up all waste and keep your tank scrupulously clean to prevent ammonia from building up. Cut back on feeding

Dose minimum ammonia in your fishless cycle. The nitrite oxidizing bacteria need to catch up. 

You might consider bottled bacteria. Tetra Safestart is easy to get. Dr. Tim' One-and-Only is arguably a better product.

For maximum mixing in your #2 nitrate bottle:
Remove the dropper part of the bottle (carefully with pliers). Insert a small bead or rock. Makes a rattlecan out of it for fast, easy mixing.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

Current readings in tank with fish in it (from here on out I'll refer to it as the 5gal tank):








(ammonia seems a little darker here, it's really .50ppm)
see what I mean about a completely different purple? 

Man I cant seem to catch a break. Now there are tiny white worms on the tank walls. I read they're harmless and to simply stop overfeeding to get rid of them, just like I read with the pond snails, but i'm not feeding my tank at all :evil:

Another question amongst my millions of questions you have all been so gracious to answer: Why is it that when I add Nitrate Bottle #1 to my 10gal cycling tank it turns dark orange, then when adding #2 and sitting for 5 minutes, it is yellow (0ppm) but if I let it sit for about 15 minutes or so it will become more orange (5ppm) and when I add Nitrate Bottle #1 to my 5gal it is yellow right off the bat but once let sit out for 5 minutes its already around 5ppm?


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

Flynn said:


> Nitrites. Just realized the shaking bottle question was referring to nitrates, whoops.


So are we talking about NitrItes or NitrAtes? I'm confused, but that's a constant situation for me lol.


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

Flynn said:


> Current readings in tank with fish in it (from here on out I'll refer to it as the 5gal tank):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly the instructions read the readings are to be checked at 5 minutes and you will get erroneous readings at any other time. The test kit is designed to be read at 5 minutes because that's how long it takes for the reaction to complete its work. You arfe wasting your time worrying about any other readings. I'm not a chemist so I don't know the answers to your questions but they are irrelevant.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Flynn said:


> (ammonia seems a little darker here, it's really .50ppm)
> see what I mean about a completely different purple?
> 
> I can't "see" what you're referring to. Did you attach a picture? Ammonia and purple are not two things I would associate...not with an API test kit.


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## MichelleA (Jun 25, 2013)

The picture shows the Nitrite test tube and its actually really pinkish purple nothing like what is shown on the reader card. I would just read after 5 minutes and not worry about the reading after or before that. My ammonia kit shows me green after I first mix it then after 5 minutes levels to yellow. It may have been sitting on the shelf for a while before you bought it. I think thats what they mean by old. I would definitely test another water source to make sure it is testing correctly. Also, just curious... Do you have live plants in your tank? What kind of substrate are you using?


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

MichelleA said:


> The picture shows the Nitrite test tube and its actually really pinkish purple nothing like what is shown on the reader card. I would just read after 5 minutes and not worry about the reading after or before that. My ammonia kit shows me green after I first mix it then after 5 minutes
> levels to yellow. It may have been sitting on the shelf for a while before you bought it. I think thats what they mean by old. I would definitely test another water source to make sure it is testing correctly. Also, just curious... Do you have live plants in your tank? What kind of substrate are you using?


I've tested another water source with the readings to be accurate, I wonder if anyone else has problems with nitrite colors? Regardless they're higher than they should be and at the moment I have no way to bring them down :-? I don't have live plants in this tank.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

i'm about to give up hope on cycling my new 10g tank this is ridiculous nitrites have been high forever without any sign of coming down and my betta is just going to have to deal with the nitrites in his tank since water changes do nothing


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Are/Where you adding ammonia every day or every 2-3 days?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

OK, Flynn, I finally can see the pic you sent. The nitrite test color tone or color saturation doesn't match, but the hue, the actual color, has a similarity to 5.0ppm. Imagine a darker more saturated version of your test color.

In any case, I think you're right, there's something irregular about your current process. Look, it's only time you've wasted, right? No fish were injured; it didn't cost you much. You may or may not have learned anything. (I'm not sure I did.) And that's the most disappointing thing about this whole episode.

I heartily suggest you give it up. Clean _everything_ in hot water and dry thoroughly. Get some Dr Tim's One-and-Only from Amazon or Drs Foster & Smith. Start all over again. You'll probably be cycled inside of a week and wondering why you didn't do it that way in the first place. 

Please, keep us informed. Best of luck.


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> Get some Dr Tim's One-and-Only from Amazon or Drs Foster & Smith.


Your talking about the Nitrifying bacteria

Setting up a new aquarium: Ammonia Removal: One And Only Nitrifying Bacteria by Dr Tim's Aquatics


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

CoolishPrune3 said:


> Are/Where you adding ammonia every day or every 2-3 days?


Yep, I dose ammonia to ~4ppm and the next day it's .25ppm and i re-dose. 



Hallyx said:


> OK, Flynn, I finally can see the pic you sent. The nitrite test color tone or color saturation doesn't match, but the hue, the actual color, has a similarity to 5.0ppm. Imagine a darker more saturated version of your test color.
> 
> In any case, I think you're right, there's something irregular about your current process. Look, it's only time you've wasted, right? No fish were injured; it didn't cost you much. You may or may not have learned anything. (I'm not sure I did.) And that's the most disappointing thing about this whole episode.
> 
> ...


Well that picture wasn't of the cycling tank. I can see how people will probably become very confused in this thread since I'm talking about two different issues even though they're generally the same: nitrites in my cycling tank won't go down and nitrates won't show up, and the nitrites in my 5g fish tank won't go down since my tap water also has a very high amount of nitrites. 

I already have the ammonia converting bacteria in my cycling tank (or at least i think, unless it's the plants) I also have 3 assassin snails in my cycling tank to help the pond snail infestation. Should i really completely restart? Wouldn't i be stuck in the same situation?

also the cons of starting over: 1. if i start over I'd get rid of my plants (waste of $) because i don't want another snail infestation and i'd buy new ones but try to get rid of any eggs (more $) . 2. Unless my assassin snails can survive a new cycling tank, they would have been a waste of $ 3. That Dr Tims stuff is pretty pricey. I also still need to buy a heater for my cycling tank. So that all kind of adds up :\


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Flynn said:


> Yep, I dose ammonia to ~4ppm and the next day it's .25ppm and i re-dose.
> 
> 
> I already have the ammonia converting bacteria in my cycling tank


Is it possible your over thinking it and the .25 ppm is just the end of your cycling process? Maybe your reading it wrong, like almost guessing to the point where your like "will this ever end?!", and it actually is????


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

The ammonia test is most likely a false positive. 
The nitrite test results I haven't never seen before. I'll do a little research in the Lab an see what I can come up with. My gut feeling is is a perversion of test.

Rick


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I see. I'm sorry, I'm confused between your tanks, Flynn. What do you have in the high-nitrite tank that produces ammonia? Snails and such? Stop dosing ammonia to see if the NOB (nitrite oxidizing bacteria, as Dr Tim Hovanec calls them) will catch up. Get that tank warmed up to >82* with the filter on high.

Don't sweat nitrate; you can always change it out.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I know Dr Tim's O&O is expensive. Tetra Safestart isn't cheap, either. The cheapest stiuff I've found is Drs Foster&Smith's house brand: Aquarium Bacterial Additives: Drs. Foster and Smith Live Nitrifying Bacteria

For me, the trouble is: everybody knows what the bacteria are that perform the nitrogen cycle ....nitrosomonas and nitrospira. If a company does not list those specific bacteria, I'm loath to trust their product.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

CoolishPrune3 said:


> Is it possible your over thinking it and the .25 ppm is just the end of your cycling process? Maybe your reading it wrong, like almost guessing to the point where your like "will this ever end?!", and it actually is????


well if the tank was cycled my nitrites wouldn't bee so high and I would see some nitrates.



rickey said:


> The ammonia test is most likely a false positive.
> The nitrite test results I haven't never seen before. I'll do a little research in the Lab an see what I can come up with. My gut feeling is is a perversion of test.
> 
> Rick


but when I dose the ammonia (1ml) it shows about 4ppm which should be correct, no? and the next morning it's down to .25ppm. yeah they nitrites are really frustrating me. And it's even more frustrating b/c when I test bottled water the nitrites are 0ppm, so it couldn't be the test? idk at this point, but thank you!



Hallyx said:


> I see. I'm sorry, I'm confused between your tanks, Flynn. What do you have in the high-nitrite tank that produces ammonia? Snails and such? Stop dosing ammonia to see if the NOB (nitrite oxidizing bacteria, as Dr Tim Hovanec calls them) will catch up. Get that tank warmed up to >82* with the filter on high.
> 
> Don't sweat nitrate; you can always change it out.


Well both tanks are high nitrite :-? i'm getting confused myself. My cycling tank consists of pond snails and some assassin snails. the readings have been no different ever since I added the assassin snails. I'm scared if I don't dose the ammonia too long the ammonia oxidizing bacteria will die off.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

Here's a picture of the levels in my 10g cycling tank:











I said before my nitrates were 0ppm but they've always looked like 0ppm under my room light and this is under natural light, so i guess my nitrates have been sitting at about 5ppm for awhile now (there's nitrates in my tap so that's all it probably is). nitrites have been sitting at that level for some time now.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

As long as you've been running, and as much as you've been dosing, you should see higher nitrate. Somehow your NOB's are not growing. Maybe inhibited by too much nitrite which is caused by too much ammonia (and hard-working AOB).

Nitrifying bacteria are not like you and me and fish. Once established, they don't "die," unless they're overheated (>90*), over-cooled (frozen), or dried out. They go into an ever-deeper comatose state, but some members of the colony survive, even if they have to cannibalize the rest of the colony. That takes a long time, which is why there is so much bacteria on this planet, and such a variety. Evolutionary biologist Steven J. Gould estimates that bacteria comprise half of the biomass on planet Earth. So the AOB is not going to die-off if you merely stop feeding them for a while.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

I sure you posted all this but,
What size is the tank and how much ammonia are you dosing?

R


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

rickey said:


> I sure you posted all this but,
> What size is the tank and how much ammonia are you dosing?
> 
> R


10g and I was dosing 3-4ppm every/every other day. as suggested I am not dosing anymore. I also feel as if possibly there are no ammonia oxidizing bacteria because I've never seen it go to completely 0 only .25ppm and it may only be my plants sucking all the ammonia up?

Also, test results today are exact same as yesterday.


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

3 days later and not ammonia nitrites or nitrates have moved a pinch. this is extremely frustrating.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Not sure what else to suggest, Flynn. Keep changing down to <0.25ppm. Don;t dose until nitrite goes down. Keep us apprised. Good luck.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

have you check the pH of this aquarium lately?

R


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

did a 25% water change with Prime and month old Quick Start (which I knew was ineffective and would do nothing but I went for it anyways) and the only change was a slight drop in nitrates. nitrites are still an unreadable reddish purple. I'm beyond frustrated as this tank has been sitting empty for about a month now with no signs of cycling. 


rickey said:


> have you check the pH of this aquarium lately?
> 
> R


pH is 7.6


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## Flynn (Aug 14, 2013)

Didn't test my water for ~3 days and I tested it today and... 0 nitrites and high nitrates!!!! Finally!! I did an ~80% water change and will be adding a school of probably 6 neon tetras tomorrow. Hope they'll get along with my betta which I will be adding a week later. I just really hope since I haven't dosed ammonia in a good while that the ammonia oxidizing bacteria hasn't died off. But if it did I think my plants could take care of it until they colonize back. Hopefully I don't run into more trouble, thank you all.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Bacteria don't "die-off" unless they're over-heated, over-cooled or dried out. They get weaker, but recover quickly. Keep an eye on it, but it sounds like you're good to go. Congratulations.


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