# Breeding without Live Food



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

The local breeder who I just bought some fish from doesn't use live food (other than Infusoria) for his fry, I was amazed by it lol he's going to tell me everything he does and I'm going to try it for my first spawn. His 5 month old fish where HUGE(Biggest female bettas I've ever seen), and I got to see some of his adorable two week old fry, and some older fry as well. 

He uses Atison's Betta Starter, and Hikari First Bites when would be eating microworms and brine shrimp.

Wish me luck, I'm going to start breeding them next Wednesday if I can decide on a pair XD


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## plad556 (May 14, 2011)

I am going to my pet store to buy the Hikari First Bites. They say they have it there it might be a little more but not as much up keep with the microworms and Brine shrimp. Thanks for letting use no


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm supposed to use Artisons Betta starter first though, I'm not sure if they can eat the first bites from day one.

The first bites where super cheap at my petco, like $2


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## shorty05 (Jun 6, 2011)

Where do you live copperarabian?


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

shorty05 said:


> Where do you live copperarabian?


San Jose (...are you the guy I bought them from?..)


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## shorty05 (Jun 6, 2011)

hahah no i was just wondering where in california you were from. do you know any breeders in socal


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

shorty05 said:


> hahah no i was just wondering where in california you were from. do you know any breeders in socal


lol I had to ask XD 

Unfortunately no, the only reason I know of this breeder is because I happened to see an add and go to a random pet store to see their Bettas, then talked to the owner to get me in contact so I could get females. I was just really lucky. There are a lot of breeders on this site though, you should go to the breeding or Betta chat section and title it "Any breeders in Socal" and someone might pop up, That's what I would do


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I guess fry will eat that stuff if the breeder used it successfully.


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> I guess fry will eat that stuff if the breeder used it successfully.


His fry also grow really fast too which kinda surprised me, I thought without out the live food they would have problems, but instead they grow really fast.


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## anbu (Nov 7, 2010)

copperarabian said:


> His fry also grow really fast too which kinda surprised me, I thought without out the live food they would have problems, but instead they grow really fast.


I have read that it's more successful if you give the Fry's powder food right when they use up their yolk sac


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Hmmm this is very interesting. I used the first bites along with BBS when I started weaning them off the BBS and they are still eating it now at almost 3 months old along with other dry foods. I didn't think to only use the first bites, perhaps I'll try it next time...


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I guess I can be everyone's test subject then lol I'll document everything in a spawn log so other people can try it if they want. Also we can see then if the growth rate is any different. Hopefully I can raise them as well as the breeder and get the same results.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I have an unopened packet of Hikari First Bites, dated for 2013. First one to PM me gets it @ no cost. 

I bought it in case I got guppy fry, but the female died and that was that. Like to see it put to good use...


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

http://www.bluebettausa.com/frystarter.htm
That's a little info on the Atisons Betta fry starter

I also heard you can use an air stone to siphon out water without accidentally sucking out fry.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think MrVampire uses an airstone.


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## FiShFiShFiShFiSh (Jun 21, 2011)

Hmm that's interesting....I would assume that without live food some of the bettas would rather starve than eat it. I might try this sometime but I would definately have backup MW and BBS, possibly VE, just incase they don't like it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think having backup food is a good idea.


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> I think having backup food is a good idea.



yes that is a good idea, I'm getting microworms from a local person who's selling them for $5


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## FiShFiShFiShFiSh (Jun 21, 2011)

He is overpricing you :/ I get them for $2.50-3 with free shipping on Ebay  There are some on Aquabid that are a little more expensive, too.


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

FiShFiShFiShFiSh said:


> He is overpricing you :/ I get them for $2.50-3 with free shipping on Ebay  There are some on Aquabid that are a little more expensive, too.



yeah, but it's convenient XD and they have some cultured already.

They also sell a two types of daphnia, I wonder if fry would like the smaller one when their a little bigger....


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Pssst....FYI... the First Bites food offer has been claimed!


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## FiShFiShFiShFiSh (Jun 21, 2011)

copperarabian said:


> yeah, but it's convenient XD and they have some cultured already.
> 
> They also sell a two types of daphnia, I wonder if fry would like the smaller one when their a little bigger....


 Fry LOVE daphnia  You just have to be careful that you don't feed them every single day, as they have a hard shell that can damage a betta frys digestive track  I fed my fry with them once or twice a week, and my adult bettas love them too! :lol:


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## Super Fish (Jun 27, 2011)

CopperArabian - I am really looking forward to your spawn log. I want to try breeding without live food too.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

If we breed, we're using mostly non live food. I will offer some microworms at the begining and some BBS after the microworms but I have 4 types of dry starter food to try. Can't wait to see how it goes for you!


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I hope it goes well, I'm only going to use the microworms as a last resort if they aren't eating the Betta starter or first bites so that other people who want to try this food(Artisons Betta and first bites) starter can use my spawn log. I'll use the microworms if I have to, but I'm hoping they do well without it.

I'm going to introduce the pair later this week, I can't wait


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

My guppies are lucky to get any type of food at all until they're adults. I just let them scavenge the scraps from the adults and bettas. My guppies grow quickly, breed fast and produce a ton of fry. I have a pregnant female right now who is going to drop any day now and the process will be repeated...although I might do some egg yolk with this drop.


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## Super Fish (Jun 27, 2011)

Have you introduced your pair yet CopperArabian? I'm really excited to see how you do!


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

Super Fish said:


> Have you introduced your pair yet CopperArabian? I'm really excited to see how you do!


I couldn't decide on a pair so I've introduced two pairs XD They are looking pretty good so far, both the males (Vesuvius my HM copper dragon with red fins, and Glorfindel my HM Plakat red platinum dragon) have built great bubble nest and I've let both females in with them.

Glorfindel and Seras could spawn at any moment, but probably tomorrow since I'm turning off the light soon. Glorfindel will try to get Seras to go underneath the nest, and when she does she bows to him but he will start slapping her with his tail and eventually nip her fin which makes her dart back into the plants. I'm hoping he figures it out soon lol I can tell he just doesn't know what to do with her yet and becomes angry about it, I hope he figuires it out eventually, poor Seras is trying so hard and is being really patient with him. 

Vesuvius and my still unnamed copper dragon need more time I think. Vesuvius is still working on the nest and the female has faint breeding bars and checks out the nest every once in a while but gets chased away lol

Here's pics of Glorfindel and Seras



















The coppers are not good models at the moment lol Plus Vesuvius decided he wanted to make his bubble nest right on the middle of the plants (Instead of under the almond leaf lol) which makes it almost impossible to get god photos, he also managed to push the plants to the front of the tank and his nest is against the wall lol

Here's a bad photo of them  I'm going to try to get better photo's them at some point XD









Here's older photo's of the copper pair since the one above kinda sucks
I havn't seen him bite his tail so hopefully it will grow back  unfortunately my HM red platinum 








and the female copper dragon, she's not flaring in this photo


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

wow great pairs!! cant wait to see fry from these couples


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## Super Fish (Jun 27, 2011)

Can't wait to see what those pairs produce!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They're very pretty! I'm sure they'll produce some beautiful fry.


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> They're very pretty! I'm sure they'll produce some beautiful fry.


Thanks  My females are really amazing, but my males are being very difficult, my copper boy started leading my copper girl under his nest but he also then gets aggressive and chases her away even though she had really great breeding bars, and Seras seemed to be scared of Glorfindel, she was still bowing to him but would run away at the first chance she had. 

I decided to take out both my females for 2-4 days, and feed all four fish mosquito larvae during that time while keeping my fingers crossed that they don't drop their eggs. This will give my females time to heal up a little, and hopefully my males will calm down some. Especially Glorfindel, he is so aggressive and since he is a Plakat he is agile.


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