# Sticky  Mythbuster: Do bettas really live in "tiny" puddles?



## Lupin

*Mythbuster: Do bettas really live in "tiny" puddle*

Okay, folks, after a research breakthrough and reminiscing of memories on how I often see people suggest to use vases and bowls for bettas considering "they live in tiny mud puddles", I decided to crash this myth in an effort to put a stop on what we call _betta abuse_ simply by placing them in a container with no heater, no filter, etc at all. I've read plenty of books and discovered there is a lot more than what you see on a betta. It has _always_ been a misconception that bettas live in mud puddles. Everytime I see people saying this, I keep thinking to myself "Is this possible?" Even the mud puddles dug by animal hooves would be quite horrible for a betta.:shake: What were those _labyrinths_ for?

Before I go further, please note there are several betta species more than you can think of distributed around Asia, however, the human developments have _seriously_ depleted their habitats with some species already lost and feared extinct.

While roaming around on forums for possible summaries, I discovered this paragraph (I don't own a lot of books however I do spend plenty of time in bookstores but I cannot copy every important bit without purchasing the said books which are expensive.)

Information is taken from *Labyrinth Fish: The Bubble Nest Builders* written by Horst Link and published by Tetra in 1991.

_"In my opinion, the natural distribution range is very much smaller than had been supposed until now and is, in fact, restricted to central, western, and northern Thailand...Betta splendens lives in paddy fields and associated ditches, in marshes and flooded grass pits and in the klongs (canals) of the residential parts of towns and villages. At different times of the year, they may be very numerous."_

A very important advice...
_The view that fighting fish often live in mudholes and therefore can be kept in such conditions is not really tenable. The fish will exhibit their full finery in a well-established, balanced aquarium and it is only under such conditions that their keeper will be able to appreciate their beauty at its best_

So the questions now are..
*What exactly is a klong?*
A picture is worth a hundred words.
Klong of Thailand









*What paddy field are we talking anyway?*
Is this _really_ a mud puddle? Is it _really_ small?









*What is your conclusion on the whole?*
Going to back to the above, I've shared to you my thoughts. Now to answer the question, What were those _labyrinths_ for?, this doesn't mean all anabantids can live in mud puddles as previously suggested by several people but this means it allows them to survive in warm, shallow, slow moving waters with very low oxygen levels.

So like other fish, we should treat the bettas with great care. Efficient filter, heater, etc just like what other tropical fish deserve.

~End of lecture.~

I will sticky this so people won't have a difficult time searching for answers like this.

This site provides excellent information as well.
http://betta.tasarin.net/aquarium.php
_An important thing to know when housing a Betta Splendens is that most metals are lethal, and never should metal decorations be used unless they are marked for this purpose. Copper is especially dangerous. Nonetheless, to keep an individual B. splendens, a minimum tank size of 3 U.S. gallons at least is recommended, if it will be kept in a warm room. Decorations can provide hiding places, especially important when two males are housed in a divided tank, or when the betta is living in a community tank. Every decoration must be free of rough areas or sharp points which can damage the delicate fins of the betta. For this reason, silk rather than plastic plants are recommended. Live plants will improve the water quality. Also, since the betta obtains oxygen from the air, the tank must not be covered with an air-tight lid and the betta must be able to easily reach the surface. (Note that some bettas enjoy leaping out of tanks, so a breathable lid is highly recommended.) If the betta has no access to air, it will suffocate. 

In Canada and the United States, the Betta is sometimes sold in a vase with a plant, with the erroneous claim that the fish can feed on the roots of the plant and that it can survive without changing the water. This is dangerous for the betta in two ways. First, the betta has a labyrinth organ which allows it to take in oxygen from the surface air, similar to the human lung. If the betta can not reach the surface of the water, which can be the case if a plant's roots are covering the surface, the betta will suffocate in a matter of hours. Secondly, Betta species are carnivorous and an appropriate food must be provided, such as dry "betta pellets" or live or frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp. However, most aquarium-bred specimens will accept dried flaked food suitable for tropical fish. When kept in a small container such as a vase, the fish need frequent water changes, and the container must be kept in a warm room. A larger tank with a heater will provide better living conditions. Wherever the fish is kept, water must be treated with an appropriate water conditioner before use. 

There is a stereotype that in the wild, bettas live in tiny muddy pools, and therefore that it is acceptable to keep them in small tanks, but bowls are usually too small. In reality, bettas live in vast paddies, the puddle myth originating from the fact that during the dry season, the paddies can dry out into small patches of water. It is not a natural state of affairs by any means, and in the wild, fish trapped in such puddles are likely to die in a short period of time when they dry out. 

To maximize the lifespan of the fish and ensure their well being, they should always be kept in appropriate sized tanks. As a rule of thumb, for each inch of fish there must be at least one gallon of water in its tank. Bettas idealy should be kept in a filtered tank 10 gallons or more and treated like any other freshwater tank fish. Although these conditions are ideal, with proper care and filtration a betta can be happily kept in a smaller tank. I, personally, keep my Betta in a tank holding 2 gallons of water and it is perfectly happy and healthy._

Other good links:
http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/pontian.htm

http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Ayer_Hitam_last1.htm

http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Thailand2.htm


----------



## Sushi

Sometimes in the wild they do. If it was a mild rain season, but it is a common misconception that this means 'bettas love a tiny amount of water'. In reality, they can survive in small amounts (usually) but not thrive.


----------



## KikiNBatta

Wow, thanks for posting this and making it a Sticky.
That was somewhat of a shock when I saw that big klong! I wish there was a such thing as a Worldwide Sticky...so that everybody would realize that bettas aren't supposed to be stuck in tiny cups and suchlike.


----------



## LittlePrincess

This is a great article, Im going to look for a 20+ gal for my betta and add some gentle fish to it.


----------



## Texasguy

Yea there is a lot of turth to this but there is also not. I've been there collecting bettas not a yr ago and 85% of the bettas we got came from streams less then 1 ft deep and a ft wide at any point in the stream it would drop in depth to less then a inch and there would be more betta albimarginata. and falx in this lower level water then in the deeper water. I went with a Thialand breeder who found almost all his wilds in small small watering holes left by rain over flowing streams. Yes there are alot of miss consaption oout there that they live in larger rice patties but most are found in water less then a foot deep. I'd say 85% to 70% of all we collocted was in very small water puddles.


----------



## Cashay

*Re: Mythbuster: Do bettas really live in "tiny" pu*



Lupin said:


> Okay, folks, after a research breakthrough and reminiscing of memories on how I often see people suggest to use vases and bowls for bettas considering "they live in tiny mud puddles", I decided to crash this myth in an effort to put a stop on what we call _betta abuse_ simply by placing them in a container with no heater, no filter, etc at all. I've read plenty of books and discovered there is a lot more than what you see on a betta. It has _always_ been a misconception that bettas live in mud puddles. Everytime I see people saying this, I keep thinking to myself "Is this possible?" Even the mud puddles dug by animal hooves would be quite horrible for a betta.:shake: What were those _labyrinths_ for?
> 
> Before I go further, please note there are several betta species more than you can think of distributed around Asia, however, the human developments have _seriously_ depleted their habitats with some species already lost and feared extinct.
> 
> While roaming around on forums for possible summaries, I discovered this paragraph (I don't own a lot of books however I do spend plenty of time in bookstores but I cannot copy every important bit without purchasing the said books which are expensive.)
> 
> Information is taken from *Labyrinth Fish: The Bubble Nest Builders* written by Horst Link and published by Tetra in 1991.
> 
> _"In my opinion, the natural distribution range is very much smaller than had been supposed until now and is, in fact, restricted to central, western, and northern Thailand...Betta splendens lives in paddy fields and associated ditches, in marshes and flooded grass pits and in the klongs (canals) of the residential parts of towns and villages. At different times of the year, they may be very numerous."_
> 
> A very important advice...
> _The view that fighting fish often live in mudholes and therefore can be kept in such conditions is not really tenable. The fish will exhibit their full finery in a well-established, balanced aquarium and it is only under such conditions that their keeper will be able to appreciate their beauty at its best_
> 
> So the questions now are..
> *What exactly is a klong?*
> A picture is worth a hundred words.
> Klong of Thailand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What paddy field are we talking anyway?*
> Is this _really_ a mud puddle? Is it _really_ small?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What is your conclusion on the whole?*
> Going to back to the above, I've shared to you my thoughts. Now to answer the question, What were those _labyrinths_ for?, this doesn't mean all anabantids can live in mud puddles as previously suggested by several people but this means it allows them to survive in warm, shallow, slow moving waters with very low oxygen levels.
> 
> So like other fish, we should treat the bettas with great care. Efficient filter, heater, etc just like what other tropical fish deserve.
> 
> ~End of lecture.~
> 
> I will sticky this so people won't have a difficult time searching for answers like this.
> 
> This site provides excellent information as well.
> http://betta.tasarin.net/aquarium.php
> _An important thing to know when housing a Betta Splendens is that most metals are lethal, and never should metal decorations be used unless they are marked for this purpose. Copper is especially dangerous. Nonetheless, to keep an individual B. splendens, a minimum tank size of 3 U.S. gallons at least is recommended, if it will be kept in a warm room. Decorations can provide hiding places, especially important when two males are housed in a divided tank, or when the betta is living in a community tank. Every decoration must be free of rough areas or sharp points which can damage the delicate fins of the betta. For this reason, silk rather than plastic plants are recommended. Live plants will improve the water quality. Also, since the betta obtains oxygen from the air, the tank must not be covered with an air-tight lid and the betta must be able to easily reach the surface. (Note that some bettas enjoy leaping out of tanks, so a breathable lid is highly recommended.) If the betta has no access to air, it will suffocate.
> 
> In Canada and the United States, the Betta is sometimes sold in a vase with a plant, with the erroneous claim that the fish can feed on the roots of the plant and that it can survive without changing the water. This is dangerous for the betta in two ways. First, the betta has a labyrinth organ which allows it to take in oxygen from the surface air, similar to the human lung. If the betta can not reach the surface of the water, which can be the case if a plant's roots are covering the surface, the betta will suffocate in a matter of hours. Secondly, Betta species are carnivorous and an appropriate food must be provided, such as dry "betta pellets" or live or frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp. However, most aquarium-bred specimens will accept dried flaked food suitable for tropical fish. When kept in a small container such as a vase, the fish need frequent water changes, and the container must be kept in a warm room. A larger tank with a heater will provide better living conditions. Wherever the fish is kept, water must be treated with an appropriate water conditioner before use.
> 
> There is a stereotype that in the wild, bettas live in tiny muddy pools, and therefore that it is acceptable to keep them in small tanks, but bowls are usually too small. In reality, bettas live in vast paddies, the puddle myth originating from the fact that during the dry season, the paddies can dry out into small patches of water. It is not a natural state of affairs by any means, and in the wild, fish trapped in such puddles are likely to die in a short period of time when they dry out.
> 
> To maximize the lifespan of the fish and ensure their well being, they should always be kept in appropriate sized tanks. As a rule of thumb, for each inch of fish there must be at least one gallon of water in its tank. Bettas idealy should be kept in a filtered tank 10 gallons or more and treated like any other freshwater tank fish. Although these conditions are ideal, with proper care and filtration a betta can be happily kept in a smaller tank. I, personally, keep my Betta in a tank holding 2 gallons of water and it is perfectly happy and healthy._
> 
> Other good links:
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/pontian.htm
> 
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Ayer_Hitam_last1.htm
> 
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Thailand2.htm


 Well at least I read you keep your's (Betta) in a two gallon, Most people on this site want to critisize you for anything smaller then 5 gallon for one Betta, To me that is rediculious


----------



## bettaboy

*Re: Mythbuster: Do bettas really live in "tiny" pu*



Lupin said:


> Okay, folks, after a research breakthrough and reminiscing of memories on how I often see people suggest to use vases and bowls for bettas considering "they live in tiny mud puddles", I decided to crash this myth in an effort to put a stop on what we call _betta abuse_ simply by placing them in a container with no heater, no filter, etc at all. I've read plenty of books and discovered there is a lot more than what you see on a betta. It has _always_ been a misconception that bettas live in mud puddles. Everytime I see people saying this, I keep thinking to myself "Is this possible?" Even the mud puddles dug by animal hooves would be quite horrible for a betta.:shake: What were those _labyrinths_ for?
> 
> Before I go further, please note there are several betta species more than you can think of distributed around Asia, however, the human developments have _seriously_ depleted their habitats with some species already lost and feared extinct.
> 
> While roaming around on forums for possible summaries, I discovered this paragraph (I don't own a lot of books however I do spend plenty of time in bookstores but I cannot copy every important bit without purchasing the said books which are expensive.)
> 
> Information is taken from *Labyrinth Fish: The Bubble Nest Builders* written by Horst Link and published by Tetra in 1991.
> 
> _"In my opinion, the natural distribution range is very much smaller than had been supposed until now and is, in fact, restricted to central, western, and northern Thailand...Betta splendens lives in paddy fields and associated ditches, in marshes and flooded grass pits and in the klongs (canals) of the residential parts of towns and villages. At different times of the year, they may be very numerous."_
> 
> A very important advice...
> _The view that fighting fish often live in mudholes and therefore can be kept in such conditions is not really tenable. The fish will exhibit their full finery in a well-established, balanced aquarium and it is only under such conditions that their keeper will be able to appreciate their beauty at its best_
> 
> So the questions now are..
> *What exactly is a klong?*
> A picture is worth a hundred words.
> Klong of Thailand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What paddy field are we talking anyway?*
> Is this _really_ a mud puddle? Is it _really_ small?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What is your conclusion on the whole?*
> Going to back to the above, I've shared to you my thoughts. Now to answer the question, What were those _labyrinths_ for?, this doesn't mean all anabantids can live in mud puddles as previously suggested by several people but this means it allows them to survive in warm, shallow, slow moving waters with very low oxygen levels.
> 
> So like other fish, we should treat the bettas with great care. Efficient filter, heater, etc just like what other tropical fish deserve.
> 
> ~End of lecture.~
> 
> I will sticky this so people won't have a difficult time searching for answers like this.
> 
> This site provides excellent information as well.
> http://betta.tasarin.net/aquarium.php
> _An important thing to know when housing a Betta Splendens is that most metals are lethal, and never should metal decorations be used unless they are marked for this purpose. Copper is especially dangerous. Nonetheless, to keep an individual B. splendens, a minimum tank size of 3 U.S. gallons at least is recommended, if it will be kept in a warm room. Decorations can provide hiding places, especially important when two males are housed in a divided tank, or when the betta is living in a community tank. Every decoration must be free of rough areas or sharp points which can damage the delicate fins of the betta. For this reason, silk rather than plastic plants are recommended. Live plants will improve the water quality. Also, since the betta obtains oxygen from the air, the tank must not be covered with an air-tight lid and the betta must be able to easily reach the surface. (Note that some bettas enjoy leaping out of tanks, so a breathable lid is highly recommended.) If the betta has no access to air, it will suffocate.
> 
> In Canada and the United States, the Betta is sometimes sold in a vase with a plant, with the erroneous claim that the fish can feed on the roots of the plant and that it can survive without changing the water. This is dangerous for the betta in two ways. First, the betta has a labyrinth organ which allows it to take in oxygen from the surface air, similar to the human lung. If the betta can not reach the surface of the water, which can be the case if a plant's roots are covering the surface, the betta will suffocate in a matter of hours. Secondly, Betta species are carnivorous and an appropriate food must be provided, such as dry "betta pellets" or live or frozen bloodworms or brine shrimp. However, most aquarium-bred specimens will accept dried flaked food suitable for tropical fish. When kept in a small container such as a vase, the fish need frequent water changes, and the container must be kept in a warm room. A larger tank with a heater will provide better living conditions. Wherever the fish is kept, water must be treated with an appropriate water conditioner before use.
> 
> There is a stereotype that in the wild, bettas live in tiny muddy pools, and therefore that it is acceptable to keep them in small tanks, but bowls are usually too small. In reality, bettas live in vast paddies, the puddle myth originating from the fact that during the dry season, the paddies can dry out into small patches of water. It is not a natural state of affairs by any means, and in the wild, fish trapped in such puddles are likely to die in a short period of time when they dry out.
> 
> To maximize the lifespan of the fish and ensure their well being, they should always be kept in appropriate sized tanks. As a rule of thumb, for each inch of fish there must be at least one gallon of water in its tank. Bettas idealy should be kept in a filtered tank 10 gallons or more and treated like any other freshwater tank fish. Although these conditions are ideal, with proper care and filtration a betta can be happily kept in a smaller tank. I, personally, keep my Betta in a tank holding 2 gallons of water and it is perfectly happy and healthy._
> 
> Other good links:
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/pontian.htm
> 
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Ayer_Hitam_last1.htm
> 
> http://www.ikanpemburu.com/html/field/Thailand2.htm


Hi, while your article has many truths... it is quite flawed because you failed to take several factors in to account.

Firstly, you're right - they don't live in tiny mud puddles. But that does not mean they do not live in small spaces. Bettas are SIAMESE FIGHTING FISH. So while Klongs and Paddy Fields look big, it is really not how it seems. In the wild, they become VERY territorial, and when you have BIG spawns that survive, thats a whole lot of males considering the size of those things. The result? Those who do not get killed by others, end up claiming SMALL territories - there's too many males to claim large territories.

Secondly, bettas who live in Klongs and Paddy Fields are wild. Pet Bettas are not. If you placed a pet betta in there, it would probably _die_. They simply are not as "street-smart" as wild bettas. Sure, bettas may be happier in a larger area, but most of them thrive in smaller homes because their instincts are set on claiming a suitable territory. To them, smaller homes are VERY suitable.

Lastly, pet bettas are adapted and used to living in smaller homes. While I agree that they should have the opportunity to experience life in a larger home... it's unlikely all bettas will get that. I've had several bettas live for YEARS in smaller homes.

To answer your question, "Do bettas really live in "tiny" puddles?".... No. But they do live in small territories (in the wild.) And Pet bettas are used to living in smaller homes.


----------



## Lupin

*Re: Mythbuster: Do bettas really live in "tiny" pu*



bettaboy said:


> Firstly, you're right - they don't live in tiny mud puddles. But that does not mean they do not live in small spaces. Bettas are SIAMESE FIGHTING FISH. So while Klongs and Paddy Fields look big, it is really not how it seems. In the wild, they become VERY territorial, and when you have BIG spawns that survive, thats a whole lot of males considering the size of those things. The result? Those who do not get killed by others, end up claiming SMALL territories - there's too many males to claim large territories.


The point is people make the wrong impression that bettas are okay in small containers, even less than a gallon at that hence the purpose of this thread. Do you know how a fish feels when conditions are changing extremely when a person neglects his tank? No one is suggesting that you can put several males in one tank and make them even spawn when it is quite obvious that aquaria are an enclosed ecosystem in comparison to klongs and paddy fields.



> Secondly, bettas who live in Klongs and Paddy Fields are wild. Pet Bettas are not. If you placed a pet betta in there, it would probably _die_. They simply are not as "street-smart" as wild bettas. Sure, bettas may be happier in a larger area, but most of them thrive in smaller homes because their instincts are set on claiming a suitable territory. To them, smaller homes are VERY suitable.
> 
> Lastly, pet bettas are adapted and used to living in smaller homes. While I agree that they should have the opportunity to experience life in a larger home... it's unlikely all bettas will get that. I've had several bettas live for YEARS in smaller homes.


We _already_ know the difference between wild-caught and domestically bred specimens. No one is suggesting to place domestically bred bettas in the wild. That is a despicable act and against the law. There are consequences for this and we will not encourage it.

Bettaboy, surely you should know by now a lot of people make the wrong impression with bettas hence we will not suggest anything smaller than 2.5 gallons. Do you see my point? Bettas are "bullet-proof" as people perceive it but they are not. They need to be treated like other fish, not as a fish marked for torture in extreme conditions due to ignorance on the part of the owner.



> To answer your question, "Do bettas really live in "tiny" puddles?".... No. But they do live in small territories (in the wild.) And Pet bettas are used to living in smaller homes.


I can agree with that _provided_ the owner who is keeping bettas does not neglect his responsibilities nor will he attempt plastic cups which is a far stretch from 2.5 gallons tank where bettas are much better off than the stupid myth they live in tiny puddles as small as the cattle's footprint.


----------



## lcswoosh05

bettaboy said:


> I agree bettas should be kept in at least 2.5 gallons, but you see - if no one used cups for bettas we wouldn't have bettas for pets. It would be to hard to breed and raise a spawn to adulthood if each betta had to have its own 2.5 gallon spot. So, be thankful that their are cups for bettas, otherwise you would've had to pay a fortune for yours... or you wouldn't have one


That's very true about it's good that they have Bettas in cups since the biggest reason why I got my Betta is since I thought it was able to even live in small areas like a cup or small bowl when I buy them at Pet Stores. When I saw them in cups I though they must be easy to take care and can live in any size bowls but it seems like you guys say that it's best to have a bigger tank for them. I guess Bettas can live in small bowls like mine but if you want the best then get a bigger tank. But I' am assuming that Bettas are easier to take care compaired to normal fish since I talked to some people and they say that they had a Betta fish for 3 or 6 years in a bowl like mine without the filter and other things and it didn't die and made alot of bubble nests. But I looks like for the best best and if you have alot of money then you should get a bigger tank and heater etc. One laddy said that she didn't even have a heater and it lived for 3 years so I guess that that means where ever she had that Betta it didn't get that cold as my room did since my room is downstairs so around winter time it kinda gets cold so I think I will need a heater at least so when winter comes again I can use that to keep the water warm so my Betta fish won't just sit still on the bottom of the bowl like last time again.


----------



## nav2008

I personally think that 2 gallons is a good size for a single fish, they can move around enough for healthy exersize and it leaves room for 2 or so plants and a small cave or hidey hole. I have kept fish in smaller tanks but i think mine seem to be very happy in the sizes they have now.


----------



## willow

my Betta "red" is in a 4ft tank with an abundant comunity.
he is doing extremly well,and his colour is viberant. 
if there was even a sniff that things were going wrong
he would be set up in his own tank,however he's doing great.


----------



## mana122

Lupin: While this is informative, and I think it's important that people understand the possible living conditions of betta in the wild, the point you're trying to drive home isn't neccisarily valid.

I have a friend who owns several beta throughout her home. It's important to remember that betta have remarkable varied personalities. One betta may greatly enjoy a tiny little bowl where it has just enough room to move around, while another may only enjoy having a GIGANTIC tank with all the fixings. 

Just a thought.


----------



## whitedevil

if you consider those puddles then by all means.

They get stuck in the shallow irrigation system when the monsoon rains come they flood out and the bettas go do their thing.

When my grandpa was in vietnam he used to write home about the fish all the time, even has some black and whites of them, however when the monsoon rains came he rarely had pics and rarely wrote about them other then saying they were gone. 

I wouldnt put a betta in anything smaller then a 10g anymore.


----------



## MrVampire181

bettas have been found in hoof prints (says Walt Maurus's book, Bettas a Complete Introduction) but they really live in hundreds of gallons, so much for the "they like small places" myth


----------



## MrVampire181

LittlePrincess said:


> This is a great article, Im going to look for a 20+ gal for my betta and add some gentle fish to it.


20+ gallon huh?

Dominus patrus bla bla bla, I give you my blessing


----------



## Lupin

mana122 said:


> Lupin: While this is informative, and I think it's important that people understand the possible living conditions of betta in the wild, the point you're trying to drive home isn't neccisarily valid.
> 
> I have a friend who owns several beta throughout her home. It's important to remember that betta have remarkable varied personalities. One betta may greatly enjoy a tiny little bowl where it has just enough room to move around, while another may only enjoy having a GIGANTIC tank with all the fixings.
> 
> Just a thought.


 Bettas are not for everyone as some people think. While it does come down to personality, it also comes down to human perception. If the owner is diligent with his maintenance in keeping a betta inside a gallon or two gallon bowls, that's fine by me and I am sure everyone else will be satisfied knowing the fish is in good hands. On the other hand, if the owner is lazy preferring not to change water at all, does this make the advice of using gallon bowls desirable at all to some beginners who are put off by the idea to do daily water changes?


----------



## aunt kymmie

1077 said:


> I sometimes wish that bettas were ten to twenty dollars a piece. Perhaps then ,,people would be willing to care for them in a manner that ALL fish deserve.Bettas could care less whether or not you love them. All they want,,is ...proper food,proper enviornment, and clean water.


I couldn't agree more!


----------



## MrVampire181

Lupin said:


> Bettas are not for everyone as some people think. While it does come down to personality, it also comes down to human perception. If the owner is diligent with his maintenance in keeping a betta inside a gallon or two gallon bowls, that's fine by me and I am sure everyone else will be satisfied knowing the fish is in good hands. On the other hand, if the owner is lazy preferring not to change water at all, does this make the advice of using gallon bowls desirable at all to some beginners who are put off by the idea to do daily water changes?


Yop, water is a wonderful bacteria hatchery! So, clean, clean, clean!

1 and 2 gallon containers need a complete water change every 7-10 days, I've been trying to educate people on the importance of cleaning the bowls, but no... "the directions on the bowl said", that's all I get, 

So bettas can be kept in bowls, but go for a tank, or you'll never see how happy he can be. Not to mention the bubblenests


----------



## MrVampire181

aunt kymmie said:


> I couldn't agree more!


If people bought my bettas, who are $60.00, they would take care of them.

I'm not selling anymore for now, I'll tell you when though!


----------



## whitedevil

60 bucks for a fish? I dont even spend that much for a piece of fish at bob chin's.

Go for the community tank, the bettas live alot longer and are alot healthier if upkept( most problems stem from underfiltration and lack of proper diet) they do great. 

Stay away from any tetras but cardinals and neons , do your homework on fin nippers, I had one betta for 5 years , 3 years in a community tank he did fine, got a new betta about 8 months later and the same exact fish tore his fins up, got rid of em got some guppies instead. The more filtration the better for bettas.


----------



## BakaMandy

To continue the original subject of this thread... I has a story that happened to me a few days ago :O

): Urgh, I went to this pet store that had a ton of bettas in tiny cups, and I was looking(/studying them and diagnosing any of them with illnesses to the associate working in the fish department xD; It was cool that he listened to me without being snobby about it) and this lady behind me (who I might add was listening to me ramble about betta fish) said to her boyfriend "Jeez, some people think it's SOOO cruel to have them in such a small container when they can live in puddles. They're SOO stupid."

I got so angry I almost spun around to yell at her that she was a stupid biatch. B| lol


----------



## Kim

Don't you just love people who think that they are so smart and automatically know everything there is to know? Most of them have never researched a thing in their lives and just always speak through the hole in their head where their brain is supposed to be.

I would have turned around and given her an education!


----------



## 5green

BakaMandy said:


> To continue the original subject of this thread... I has a story that happened to me a few days ago :O
> 
> ): Urgh, I went to this pet store that had a ton of bettas in tiny cups, and I was looking(/studying them and diagnosing any of them with illnesses to the associate working in the fish department xD; It was cool that he listened to me without being snobby about it) and this lady behind me (who I might add was listening to me ramble about betta fish) said to her boyfriend "Jeez, some people think it's SOOO cruel to have them in such a small container when they can live in puddles. They're SOO stupid."
> 
> I got so angry I almost spun around to yell at her that she was a stupid biatch. B| lol


hahaha and i used to be that person that thought they lived in tiny puddles wow i have come a long way from then


----------



## Shawtee

I know someone who use to live in malayia and traveeled through india, people use to keep them in jam jars and the person claims that it wasnt rare to find them in puddles but i think it is important to remeber that out there it is A) a differnt climated and B) man didnt put each betta in each puddle it happened as part of a flood.

If you insist on putting it in a vase get a vase which is at least 2 gallons (it really isnt that hard to find) and put a friggin heater in! purchasing your pet you become the owner, the reason animals are pets is because we have to control and look after them, it's the same for every pet.


----------



## kentynet

It is true that Bettas don't permanantly live in puddles and this would be very uncomfortable and miserable for them but there are times when rice paddy fields dry up, I belive I read somewhere that rice has to go through a "dry stage" which is when the rice it is mostly sown into the ground, so that would leave water very scarce and so the betta fish would be forced to live for a *short *period of time in very little water.
Living in "puddles" and very small amounts of water is a last resort for the animal though and isn't very pleasant for it and as keepers of animals we should do all in our power to make them as comfortable and well looked after as we can. I think a 1 gallon tank is the very least I'd provide a betta with although I'd probably opt for a 2 or 3 gallon.
(if I'm wrong about anything then please feel free to correct me)









A small amount of water in a paddy field, if you look closely you might spot a fish, not sure what type it is.


----------



## liannagreyson

Very nice post with a ton of informative information. I really appreciate the fact that you approach these topics from a stand point of knowledge and information 
instead of the typical “I think” mentality that you see so much on the internet these days.


----------



## MrWynO14

Well, how many bettas would you say are in that picture of the big puddle? If there are 5 then they do live in a lot of space in nature. If there are lots, then I dunno.


----------



## Tinman23

I always found it odd when people would tell me that bettas dont mind the little cups they are stored in when at pet stores because of this myth...thanks for busting it, now I have some people to correct!


----------



## bloo97

If you put a fish in a large puddle, they'll die within days!


----------



## redchigh

What do you mean put a fish in a large puddle?
Where do you think fish live in the wild?

(note, a large puddle in my mind is large- A few feet wide, a foot deep... 
which would be close to 25-30 gallons if my math is right... a sq ft is close to a gallon...)


----------



## Lupin

MrWynO14 said:


> Well, how many bettas would you say are in that picture of the big puddle? If there are 5 then they do live in a lot of space in nature. If there are lots, then I dunno.


The only reason they are able to coexist well is the fact they can establish territories without touching each other's boundaries. That's the whole point of why you cannot really combine more than one male betta in the same tank. A tank is an enclosed system. Nature on the other hand differs. You can't compare both at all.


----------



## Lupin

bloo97 said:


> If you put a fish in a large puddle, they'll die within days!


Ummm..Which fish? And which puddle are we talking about?


----------



## xxabc

If the large puddle was really shallow, it's a possibility...I've always thought of puddles being VERY shallow. But that is my own connotation.


----------



## McAttack

I really wish I was into Betta's when I was in thailand 6 months ago, I would've tried to go search for this stuff. But if I take a step back and look at nature as a whole, plenty of different fish end up in places that isn't preferable but they survive. Especially with monsoon seasons and droughts. Water goes up, water goes down, the area disappears and pockets, pools, puddles are formed. This is also as far as I understand, the reason bettas jump at night. To change location when this happens. 

I doubt any fish could survive years in a natural body of water that is a foot square or less, simply because it's incredibly hot in Thailand, so that tiny amount of water would dry up in 2 days and you'd have a baked fish. Secondly, a bright moving fish, in a foot of water, would be easy prey for birds, wild dogs and any other predator.


----------



## Felessan

ok i will be honest i thought that bettas lived in puddles befor i stumbled across this website and read this post now i will upgrade my .5 gallon bowl.


----------



## BettiBetta

I just love this forum. As a new betta owner I am learning so much! Thanx guyz!


----------



## kirby13580

If you mean puddles at least 1 1/2 inches, yes!!!


----------



## MrVampire181

Yes and no. Bettas live in very small AREAS of very large rice paddies and ponds. When another male betta comes into the territory and fight each other the loser has plenty of room to escape and is left unharmed.


----------



## betta fish crazy

Even if it is only an inch deep we are still talking about a whole pond/paddy/klong.


----------



## bloo97

Good post, Lupin.


----------



## artist4life

im so glad you posted this because people at petco thought it was funny that i got a big tank for a betta


----------



## Pekemom

Interesting facts about bettas Great atticle. Thanks for posting !


----------



## bettamaniac

bettaboy said:


> Hi, while your article has many truths... it is quite flawed because you failed to take several factors in to account.
> 
> Firstly, you're right - they don't live in tiny mud puddles. But that does not mean they do not live in small spaces. Bettas are SIAMESE FIGHTING FISH. So while Klongs and Paddy Fields look big, it is really not how it seems. In the wild, they become VERY territorial, and when you have BIG spawns that survive, thats a whole lot of males considering the size of those things. The result? Those who do not get killed by others, end up claiming SMALL territories - there's too many males to claim large territories.
> 
> Secondly, bettas who live in Klongs and Paddy Fields are wild. Pet Bettas are not. If you placed a pet betta in there, it would probably _die_. They simply are not as "street-smart" as wild bettas. Sure, bettas may be happier in a larger area, but most of them thrive in smaller homes because their instincts are set on claiming a suitable territory. To them, smaller homes are VERY suitable.
> 
> Lastly, pet bettas are adapted and used to living in smaller homes. While I agree that they should have the opportunity to experience life in a larger home... it's unlikely all bettas will get that. I've had several bettas live for YEARS in smaller homes.
> 
> To answer your question, "Do bettas really live in "tiny" puddles?".... No. But they do live in small territories (in the wild.) And Pet bettas are used to living in smaller homes.


I agree with you in a way it annoys me that everyone always says that in the wild bettas have HUGE ponds not little mud puddles and act like each one has OVER 10 gallons of territory that there are very few bettas and that they have like I said HUGE territories they act like they know that in the wild bettas dont have large spawns or there are a lot but only about 3 survive I mean seriously people actually think about this


----------



## bloo97

Ah, but there is a difference between a domestic betta and a wild type.


----------



## Crazykat

Well, I'd say that the difference is of human making. While bettas may have small territories in the wild, they are in an open system and waste is diluted, circulated and dealt with by the whole ecosystem. So, while it's true that the betta is capable of living in a small AREA, a square foot in a rice paddy is a very different thing from a square foot in a bowl which probably doesn't have enough water changes. 

Let's be realistic. The breeders and concientious but money strapped owners are usually not the ones making the arguement that they can put their bettas in vases; 9 times out of 10, it's going to be someone who wants a pretty fish as a decorative piece on their desk OR someone who wants to sell said pretty fish for decorative desk pieces. And that is the problem with perpetuating this story that bettas live in puddles. It makes it morally okay to do this to these fish because "this is how they live in the wild". Just my two cents ;-)


----------



## Amethyst123

Someone mentioned, in a previous post, that most of the fish they "collected" from the wild were in streams that were only a foot wide and not more than a foot deep. I'd like to point out that a body of water that is a foot deep and a foot wide will have a cubic foot of water in each linear foot of the stream. A cubic foot of water is 7.48 gallons of water. A cubic foot of moving water, even if it is moving slowly, is a LOT different than a gallon, or even worse a 1/2 gallon of still water. If the stream stayed a foot wide, a linear foot of the stream would have to be no more than 1.6" deep to have as little as 1 gallon of water in it. Even if it got that shallow on occasion, a stream is still moving. A pond or other closed body of water still gets refreshed by rain, and the natural plants, mud, etc., would effectively filter and convert wastes. None of that happens in a gallon of still water, unless we do it. 

In other words, the personal experience of someone "collecting" wild fish in Asia does not, in any way, mean that bettas can thrive in "tiny mud puddles."


----------



## Nexangelus

What a great article! I get the "they live in puddles... 1 gallon bowls must be like paradise!" quotes thrown at me almost every day, which never cease to sicken me. While some puddles definitely aren't your typical small collection of rain drops, some genuinely are... During the dry season. No betta would ever choose to live in a tiny mud puddle with little maneuvering room, it's not in their nature. 

I got pretty frustrated trying to explain that to several customers, so I decided to think up an analogy for them, just to dumb it down a bit: It's like cramming a human into a tool shed. Can you live there? Sure can. Would you be cheerful and able to thrive in one? 

Generally, that gets my point across.


----------



## Miyazawa

I don't care that wild Betta lives in rice puddle. All I need to know that is you won't see a pet half-moon dragging his tail in a rice puddle.


----------



## kfryman

Thanks for this it is so annoying when people say that bettas live in puddles. -_-


----------



## aqua001

:welldone:Great articale! i sure wish everyone who thought betta's lived in tiny puddles would read this! like Sushi said, somtimes in the wild they do, but as pets, i agree, they should be treated equal.


----------



## toddscire

*Ok I have to put the books to rest.*

The real answer to your question do betta's live in a puddle is true some times of the year. In Thailand the betta roam the bug infested flooded areas around the rivers and in some case the rice fields are 6inch to 12 inch deep with water 5 months of the year. But in winter it dries out to only a trickle and a few puddles under a tree or bush and yes you will find betta there. some times 10 males in 2 ft circle of water all fighting for the same coke can. We often find betta and snake heads side by side in the same hole. The betta is one tough fish. It will live in 1inch of water and have a nest. We have seen betta fish in plastic bags and old tires and just about any place that water is still standing in the dry season. In the wet season they will move to the field where they can live in water that favors only bugs and is void of much O2. I think most of the books are wrong and only tell what worked for that breeder. As a rule if you give them water and food and a little room and keep your temp above 70 and below 90 you will be able to breed. To keep the nest and babies alive keep a top on you tank and open only to feed and only enough to get food to them. We find lower temps make a lot of females and hi temps more male. Also we have had a few night that were down to 60 and we do not use heaters and all was fine. In fact we had more nests the next week. But if you get up to the 90's the babies can drop to soon from the nest and have fin size issues. My wife has a few tanks that can get to the high 90's in the summer and she keeps her PK stuff in there all year. So the real answer is in Thailand you can find betta in a water bufflow foot print 20% of the time and a coke can 10% and all else is fair game for this hardy little fish. I do not think that the habitat is gone. But they are looking in the wrong place and say it is extinct. If they spend more time talking to the locals and asking for help they will get more done. But to just go on a farmers land and look for fish will get you in to issues in Thailand or shot. The big issue is getting your wife to go with you after the first cobra comes out of the water with a frog.
But yes mud puddle are fair game and we check them for fish. We have got some nice greens in a had full of water in old broken bottles. The books are from so long ago. The info is most times out of date and plastic tanks were a dream. Get a soda bottle and a shoe box and breed......


----------



## toddscire

*I wanted to add a little extra to this.*

One of the best breeders in the world uses bottles the size of your hand for years with no issue. I can say that there is not more than two cups of water in it and just enough room for the fish to turn around in. Water is changed 2 times a day and not one fish in 10,000 were sick. No meds and no vodo treatments. Just lots of food and water changed. I do not think it is kind to do this. But it seems to work well and the life span is not shorter. The fish are very calm and the fish seem to not be stressed out. They breed in 20 gallon high tanks and some show fish were in 4 gallon tanks but were very large. They sell a lot of fish and hold a lot of fish. I think Jay said the sales were in the thousands a week. We use .5 gal glass to hold for inspection but use small bottles for some to grow out custom orders that we need 90% of the same batch. If we grow out in larger vats the loss is around 30% and some times more. But bettas can do OK in smaller containers and live the same life span. I wish I could give every fish a few gallons of water to live in...But price is a issue.


----------



## Bombalurina

toddscire said:


> One of the best breeders in the world uses bottles the size of your hand for years with no issue. I can say that there is not more than two cups of water in it and just enough room for the fish to turn around in. Water is changed 2 times a day and not one fish in 10,000 were sick. No meds and no vodo treatments. Just lots of food and water changed. I do not think it is kind to do this. But it seems to work well and the life span is not shorter. The fish are very calm and the fish seem to not be stressed out. They breed in 20 gallon high tanks and some show fish were in 4 gallon tanks but were very large. They sell a lot of fish and hold a lot of fish. I think Jay said the sales were in the thousands a week. We use .5 gal glass to hold for inspection but use small bottles for some to grow out custom orders that we need 90% of the same batch. If we grow out in larger vats the loss is around 30% and some times more. But bettas can do OK in smaller containers and live the same life span. I wish I could give every fish a few gallons of water to live in...But price is a issue.


However, as breeders, they know how to treat sick fish, and keep the water very clean and very warm (usually by heating a room). They don't keep the fish like this for their whole lives, but sell them on to other breeders, and to pet owners. 
Even petshops keeping them in small display tanks or cups isn't too bad, as long as the water is kept clean and warm. What is terrible is petshops selling tiny fishtanks with no heat or hiding spots as ideal homes to people with no instructions on care or cleaning.


----------



## Bombalurina

The point is, though, that that teeny tiny area is part of a huge ecosystem which recieves natural filtration and heating that a tank of the same size does not. Thus, a small tank is not a healthy environment, whereas the same size area in a klong is.


----------



## Cynical Fish Guy

Bombalurina said:


> The point is, though, that that teeny tiny area is part of a huge ecosystem which recieves natural filtration and heating that a tank of the same size does not. Thus, a small tank is not a healthy environment, whereas the same size area in a klong is.


Interesting point, however filtration is an irrelevant argument when the argument is on size.(Red Herring!) So long as people are able to maintain proper H2O, undoubtedly harder to do in a smaller aquarium, the fish is fine in a confined space.

Filtration/Proper maintenance of H2O totally different subject. However when regarding size a mud puddle is sufficient enough.

I'm arguing logic and semantics!


----------



## LittleBettaFish

The pH in a lot of those puddles would be so low because of decaying organic matter and rainwater that any ammonia-related toxicity would be minimal because it would consist mostly of ammonium, which is much less harmful. 

Unless you can get the pH in your tanks down to 4-6.0, which is what the pH is in a lot of betta habitat, you are eventually going to run into problems with ammonia poisoning unless water changes are not performed regularly. You also run the risk of killing your bettas if the pH suddenly shoots up as any ammonium present will quickly be converted back to ammonia.

My wild bettas although mostly sedentary do enjoy having space to move about. I have no issues with breeders housing their bettas in smaller bodies of water because of the practicalities of their business. The big breeders over in Thailand know exactly what they are doing, and it shows in the quality of the fish they produce. 

However, for the casual betta owner with only a couple pet only bettas, there's no really no reason to only provide them with the bare minimum. 

While a larger space may not be necessary from a water-quality perspective, I believe fatty liver disease has been linked to the often sedentary lifestyle led by bettas housed in smaller containers. Also I could easily see how muscle atrophy could occur if bettas are not provided with enough room to adequately exercise. This is of particular concern if the betta in question has to cope with excessive or heavy finnage.

Personally, a 1 gallon/4 litre tank is the absolute minimum I would use for permanent accommodation. This to me, provides at least enough room for an adult betta to swim horizontally back and forth. 

It is wrong for pet and fish stores to continue to exploit the resilience of bettas, and their ability to survive in less than ideal conditions. Generally the only reason bettas end up in puddles is because the main body of water has dried up, and I wager a high percentage of these die before the next lot of rains arrive. Frankly, I don't really see any reason to mimic the extremes of a betta's environment in the aquarium.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Well here's my view on size requirements:



> While a larger space may not be necessary from a water-quality perspective, I believe fatty liver disease has been linked to the often sedentary lifestyle led by bettas housed in smaller containers. Also I could easily see how muscle atrophy could occur if bettas are not provided with enough room to adequately exercise. This is of particular concern if the betta in question has to cope with excessive or heavy finnage.


While betta splendens are jarred by breeders in Thailand once they hit maturity, most of their early life is spent in large concrete ponds where their is plenty of space for them to develop and build up muscling. 

It's only due to the onset of territorial aggression and cultivation of correct finnage that males are jarred. 

Once bettas get sold they are either sent out wholesale and are housed by most pet or fish stores in small cups purely out of convenience, or they wind up purchased privately and spend their life in a hobbyist's tank. 

While a betta does not require a large space of water to live in, I can't understand why you persist in challenging the concept that for some people it is enjoyable to provide their bettas with as an enriching and stimulating environment as possible.

The domesticated betta splendens is an artificial breed. It is not as hardy as its wild ancestors and would probably die if it was forced to live in a puddle or rice paddy. The whole concept of what is natural for them and what isn't is skewed by the fact that most bettas nowadays haven't got wild splenden ancestry in them until way back down the line. They are a fish bred purely for looks. Only the true fighter plakats still possess many of the traits found in wild splendens, though their aggression has been intensified by selective breeding.

Can I ask why you housed a betta in a pint of water? Is it because you simply could? Even with regular water changes I can't imagine it was the most exciting environment for a fish. At least breeders card their males and then give them limited access to other males and females to stimulate their territorial instincts and improve their finnage. 

As for dying of natural causes define what is natural? I would think a fish getting eaten or dried up or dying of ammonia poisoning would all be natural causes of death. After all there has been no interference from any outside source. That is life in nature, it is brutal and usually short-lived, which is why I have no desire to replicate it in my aquariums.


----------



## sushitucker

thats just wierd. i mean how could a betta live in a puddle!


----------



## MadameDesu

That and they don't live in puddles. They live in rice paddies, which, yes, are shallow. But they stretch out for miles and miles and miles. That's a LOT of space.


----------



## Myates

Many bettas are actually found in puddles.. there have been many cases of them in puddles that were formed from the hooves of cattle. 
Water will recede in their natural habitat, and when that happens bettas will bury themselves in the mud to wait out the dry times.. once water comes back they will come out. Sometimes it will only be a small puddle when the betta feels the water trickle down to them and when they emerge it's a small puddle.
I figure that is why it is common to hear of them living in puddles, as they do, but not permanently.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

My Betta fish carter he is a male chocolate delta tail from petco live sin a 10 gallon all to himself I feed him freeze dried brine shrimp Flightless Fruit flies and Betta pellets.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

His tank is filled with plants and one of those floating Betta logs he loves it.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

The reason so many are found in puddles is seasonal changes making small areas the dry season is when the most bettas die.


----------



## ysa4912

No that's not what thy meant. What they meant to say was the bettas live in rice paddies not in mud puddles that animals and etc. dig no of course not even an 8 year old can tell that don't be foolish now if an animal made a puddle how can the fish go there? Of course you can't answer that because there's no possible way. So be smart and understand what they meant before you complain. :shock:


----------



## Olympia

I've never thought about it that way...
Next time someone says they live in puddles, I'll ask: how on earth do they get into puddles?
:-D


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I would think they would jump out and flop around until they hit a source of water. If you have animals like water buffalo or whatever they have over there milling around waterways you could feasibly end up with churned up ground where puddles form. 

Of course this isn't the preferred habitat of bettas, but I could see how it would happen. However, most fish will instinctively seek out larger bodies of water and usually only end up in puddles because of bad luck or dry weather. 

Here is a video of killifish eggs hatching in an elephant's footprint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sy3R3f_GCY

Even those fish though ended up leaving the puddle once they were big enough.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

In one study of betta fish they were kept in bowls vs aquariums the aquarium fish lived 7-8 years the bowl fish lived 2-3 years in bigger tanks they can excerise like walking a dog another study removed the labyrinth then put them in highly oxygen rich water they died shortly after people say there betta lived a long time how long is that a year two years eight years.


----------



## Pilot00

Most stories ive read about speak of bettas lifespan been 4 years with rare specimens reaching 5. If space is a factor (which i am 100% sure it is) then i am happy mine is in an 37 g aquarium. You could see him flexing when i threw him in from his tiny coffee cup.

Even if they didnt need the space for exercise its a psychological thing. More space = more activity = more fun. And please dont tell me that its a fish and it doesnt have feelings, it has been proven that bettas can be depressed. However surreal that may sound.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

they have feeling they are just different from human but with varied diet and big tank they can live up to 10 years but with proper care average 7-8 years in a bowl 2-3 years because bad diet dirty water and no exercise also more stress probably a lot of the stories you read are fish in bowls it annoys me when bowl keepers say there Betta or goldfish lived a while what was it a year so many people seem to think bettas only live a year or two.


----------



## bettababe89

I have tried to tell people this and all they do is start with the rain puddle crap! it doesn't rain bettas so they must have come from somewhere big before their home was drained or evaporated. You can raise a human child in the confounds of a bathroom as some sickos have proven but does that mean a child loves it? who wouldn't want to stretch their fins (or legs) and swim (run)?


----------



## JadeAngel

ChoclateBetta said:


> In one study of betta fish they were kept in bowls vs aquariums the aquarium fish lived 7-8 years the bowl fish lived 2-3 years in bigger tanks they can excerise like walking a dog another study removed the labyrinth then put them in highly oxygen rich water they died shortly after people say there betta lived a long time how long is that a year two years eight years.


Can you point me to this study? I would absolutely LOVE to print up the information on it, and pull it out every time some idget tries to get snotty with me and tell me how tiny bowls are pefectly fine for them :twisted:


----------



## homegrown terror

bettababe89 said:


> it doesn't rain bettas


that is just such an awesome mental picture!


----------



## ChoclateBetta

JadeAngel said:


> Can you point me to this study? I would absolutely LOVE to print up the information on it, and pull it out every time some idget tries to get snotty with me and tell me how tiny bowls are pefectly fine for them :twisted:


Read it in a book but also the bettas that live the longest seem to be in bigger tanks.


----------



## Olympia

Lol not true. :s
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VictorP

Definitely not true. That's just your opinion.


----------



## snazy

Why are people making a point of betta's living in a mud puddle although any information points out this happens mostly when the rice paddies, swamps or shallow ponds dry out during the dry season. So no matter whether you originally lived in a paddy field, swamp, shallow pond, river, lake, etc..., you may end up in a mud puddle anyhow if it gets too hot too fast and fish get stranded in a mud puddle or such. Bettas have adapted to that climate and can survive the dry season in such a small, low oxygen space, with lack of food, etc...But many die during this period.
I've read that outside the dry season bettas may claim teritory for themselves even up to a square meter each which compared to a 1G bowl is laughable and there are studies published by betta reasearchers suggesting that keeping them in 20G, well planted tank, with driftwood, good filtration, etc.. is best.
Sometimes people just don't acclimate the fish properly as well when moving them from a bowl to a bigger tank, or the tank is bare with not too much plants or decoration to hide, with aggressive tank mates they had no clue they are incompatible with, and then they keep posting how their betta freaked out from the big space and is happier in a bowl. If I was locked in a basement for a good while, I'd be stressed of course on the first glimpse of a bigger world too.
There are so many stories of bettas getting stressed to the point of biting their own tails in small unfiltered bowls with little or no decoration and still survive for a good while to call it: "they did ok"

Also, why do you think they have adapted to jump from water to water? Why would they do that if they like their small mud puddle?



Also, you can't put all bettas in the same group. For example betta taeniata's natural habitat is the upper parts of fast flowing rivers, looking for food in the shallow areas. It looks like this:


----------



## ChoclateBetta

VictorP said:


> Definitely not true. That's just your opinion.


I meant bigger as in a tank were they can excerise. How many Bettas live 10 years in bowls. A fish with proper excerise I meant they live longer in big spaces like over 2.5 because the leading killer of Bettas is not their they can excerse.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

snazy said:


> Why are people making a point of betta's living in a mud puddle although any information points out this happens mostly when the rice paddies, swamps or shallow ponds dry out during the dry season. So no matter whether you originally lived in a paddy field, swamp, shallow pond, river, lake, etc..., you may end up in a mud puddle anyhow if it gets too hot too fast and fish get stranded in a mud puddle or such. Bettas have adapted to that climate and can survive the dry season in such a small, low oxygen space, with lack of food, etc...But many die during this period.
> I've read that outside the dry season bettas may claim teritory for themselves even up to a square meter each which compared to a 1G bowl is laughable and there are studies published by betta reasearchers suggesting that keeping them in 20G, well planted tank, with driftwood, good filtration, etc.. is best.
> Sometimes people just don't acclimate the fish properly as well when moving them from a bowl to a bigger tank, or the tank is bare with not too much plants or decoration to hide, with aggressive tank mates they had no clue they are incompatible with, and then they keep posting how their betta freaked out from the big space and is happier in a bowl. If I was locked in a basement for a good while, I'd be stressed of course on the first glimpse of a bigger world too.
> There are so many stories of bettas getting stressed to the point of biting their own tails in small unfiltered bowls with little or no decoration and still survive for a good while to call it: "they did ok"
> 
> Also, why do you think they have adapted to jump from water to water? Why would they do that if they like their small mud puddle?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you can't put all bettas in the same group. For example betta taeniata's natural habitat is the upper parts of fast flowing rivers, looking for food in the shallow areas. It looks like this:


 Rats I have to get a twenty gallon as soon as possible my 10 gallon is too small so sorry carter. I am being serois. A betta in a .5 will not out live a betta in a 10 gallon no matter how many water changesthe number one killer of Bettas is diseases related to lack of excerise.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

Also remember Bettas need 5 gallon minimum.


----------



## jag14

A lot of discussion about minimum tank size. Is my 3 gallon setup ok? It will have a filter soon. I change a gallon of water once a week and supply plants and an ornament for hiding in. He seems happy in there, active and greeting me everytime I'm at the desk. Of course, some of that may just be that he sees me as his food source. I do believe these small fish can have just as much personality as a cichlid, but much easier to keep.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

jag14 said:


> A lot of discussion about minimum tank size. Is my 3 gallon setup ok? It will have a filter soon. I change a gallon of water once a week and supply plants and an ornament for hiding in. He seems happy in there, active and greeting me everytime I'm at the desk. Of course, some of that may just be that he sees me as his food source. I do believe these small fish can have just as much personality as a cichlid, but much easier to keep.


A 5 gallon is not ideal but sounds like your set up is great remember bettas need hiding spots.


----------



## jag14

Thanks, I'm just glad I found this site. I want to do right by my little guy. The larger setup was definitely the right move, his color is so much prettier now than in the little pet store cups. He is content to hide within the plants or his ornament, so I guess his is a happy little world.


----------



## cheynan

Yeah they can! I've seen that and it blew my mind!!!


----------



## Sivan

ChoclateBetta said:


> Also remember Bettas need 5 gallon minimum.


This is false, Chocolate. This is your opinion only and has no real support to it. A 1 gallon is the absolute minimum to cover the needs of the fish but a 5 gallon is a preferred size that produces many benefits.

The reason behind a 1 gallon being minimum is simple First, you have to look at the needs of the animal. Betta fish need the following in a living environment: tropical temperature range water from 76 to 86 degrees with 78-82 degrees being ideal, water that is clean of naturally occurring toxins, exercise room, and surface air space.

A 1 gallon is the minimum because all of the above can be obtained on a normal person's schedule. 1 gallon is the smallest standard volume that can maintain a proper temperature without large fluctuations that can harm a betta fish's health, it is the smallest standard volume that does not overpopulate with toxins such as ammonia to fast to be dealt with, it provides the minimal room for decent exercise, and with the proper shape a 1 gallon tank will provide proper surface air.

While bigger is better and studies have shown that betta fish living in larger environments have longer lifespans (though many factors may contribute to this), a fish with a dedicated owner can live just as high a quality of life in a 1 gallon.

After all, a properly kept 1 gallon is better than an ignored 5 gallon.

EDIT:: Also, can you provide proof that the "number one killer of bettas is diseases" related to a lack of exercise? It has been widely recognized that the number one killer of betta fish is ammonia. Lack of room to swim may not be goof but it has not caused any disease as far as I can recall off the top of my head.


----------



## snazy

> A lot of discussion about minimum tank size. Is my 3 gallon setup ok? It will have a filter soon. I change a gallon of water once a week and supply plants and an ornament for hiding in. He seems happy in there, active and greeting me everytime I'm at the desk. Of course, some of that may just be that he sees me as his food source. I do believe these small fish can have just as much personality as a cichlid, but much easier to keep.


In all my tanks I change 50% water a week and all have filters(not all betta tanks) If you really want to know whether a 3g bowl with no filter and only 1G water changed a week, buy a liquid test kit for ammonia and nitrItes. Test the water before water change, if any of them is not 0, then the fish is living in a toxic enviroment that will lead to disease and death early or later. Lucky for betta keepers the poor bettas withstand months of suffer before they finally give in. Even if you get a filter, it will take anything between 4 to 8 weeks for it to cycle(convert ammonia and nitrItes to non-toxic nitrAtes which in turn is lowered by weekly water changes). And you need a heater too because they need not only higher but stable temperature which only a heater can provide. In 3G tank you can barely put all this stuff inside. So 3G can work, but is very small and even if cycled, it tends to be unstable because the water temperature and conditons can change too fast for the fish to cope with.


----------



## VictorP

+1 Sivan


----------



## Sivan

Thank you, Victor. I make it my mission to correct misconceptions about betta fish, even if those misconceptions are with the good intentions of improving betta life. In order to end improper care, proper knowledge is needed and to truly understand the species it is critical to know the reasons behind the ideas.


----------



## Sena Hansler

For instance, although 1 gallons "are not ideal" I know many awesome people who use them, on this site even, and they are bullied into staying quiet and NEVER asking for help because they are afraid of people lashing, arguing, ranting etc at them. Help, not hinder  


Also another reason two males cannot be together... Bred by mankind to fight and kill, domesticated bettas also lack the room to flee, and since the "land" is really glass or acrylic there is no absorbtion of smells, or toxins. In the wild they live in the same body of water...sure... But think of the massive difference in size of environment, mother nature VS artificial, and in the wild... nature cares for them. We have to be that surrogate "mother nature" to them, in captivity. Another reason it is crucial to care for bettas appropriately without ever uttering "but in the wild..."

edit: reading back... ChoclateBetta though I respect you as a person, and your opinions as such... I disagree here. I had a 7 year old betta in a bowl. Cleaned his bowl twice a week because I found it got too dirty otherwise. That was my first ever betta. Some of my bettas in 3-20 gallons died young, died old, died sick (usually severe rescues), died healthy. There erally is no pin-point to how long a betta lives in comparison to the size of tank... However the care that is behind that said tank is what really matters. I find 1 gallon+ best, because anything smaller literally needs 3-7 cleanings a week...and who ever does that?! :lol:


----------



## ChoclateBetta

1 gallons too small check my sig for link and Carter and Betty are 2 and 1 healthy active.


----------



## VictorP

It's not too small. I don't mean to be rude but when will you get that through your stubborn head chocolate? Just respect others decisions for housing.


----------



## Sivan

Chocolate, your signature does not hold anything of scienfitic value or proof or suggestion. Your signature merely states the number and type of fish you have, as well as "Bowls are soup not fish!" That is an opinion without reason behind it. I do agree that fish should be kept in as large a volume with as large surface space available. However, that does not mean that people who house their fish in a volume of 1 gallon are abusing their fish.

Animal neglect, as defined by the ASPCA, requires an owner of an animal to habitually deny the basic needs of life to an animal in a way that diminishes the quality of life and harms health. As I explained in my previous post, with questions you chose to ignore, the basic needs of betta fish are covered in a 1 gallon in a way that most people (i.e. no breeders) can manage with reasonable amounts care. Unless you can prove otherwise, you are forcing your opinion on others and CONTRIBUTING to the misconception of these creatures.


----------



## MyRainbowBettaFish

ChoclateBetta said:


> 1 gallons too small check my sig for link and Carter and Betty are 2 and 1 healthy active.


actually, its not too small, i agree fully with what sena was saying :-D


Sivan, WELL PUT! WELL PUT, my friend


----------



## Sivan

Thanks for the compliments guys but I do *not* want it to seem as though we are putting Chocolate down. She has her opinions that are based in love and care but it would be beneficial if she would acknowledge that there is a scientific perspective.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

Accordiong o the admin it is and I am not a she. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49160


----------



## Sivan

Sorry, Chocolate. I thought we had a conversation and you said you were a girl. My bad. While that may be what the Admin suggests, aside from the fact that the admin says 2.5 gallons, there is not evidence as to why. 2.5 gallons is generally a better size if a person has to do a smaller volume tank because it is easier to find heaters and maintain water changes for it in comparison to a 1 gallon.

However, as I showed you, a 1 gallon can be safely maintained and cover the basic needs of the fish but like all smallest and minimum standards, it is harder to deal with. It is not impossible for a non-breeder to handle and thus a plausible permanent housing option.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

In all honesty even a 2.5 is really small like I would never keep carter in a 5 because he loves his 10 but I just do not like 1 but that is my preference just all the 1 gallons I have seen are too small for active fish your right no tank size has no evidence except lifespan.


----------



## Sivan

It is also important to keep in mind that certain show breeds, such as Halfmoons with dumbo ears, are weighed down by their heavy fins and struggle to be in larger tanks, especially since you do not see many 10 gallon tanks that are shallow enough to accommodate them. Some fish have to be kept in lower volumes because of such problems and because their basic needs are met, it is an acceptable amount. Lower than 1 gallon, however, and conditions are impossible to maintain on a regular person's schedule for permanent housing purposes.


----------



## LadyVictorian

My female is in a 2.5 gallon tank and she has PLENTY of room to swim around, not too small at all and it holds five plants comfortably.
My male is in a 5 gallon and perfectly happy. He would be more stressed in a 10 gallon due to his heavy fins. He's such a slow fish even when he is trying to be fast he's slow and will rip his tail if he swims too hard (aka tries to swim too fast for too long).


----------



## ChoclateBetta

Carter's fins are huge he is a delta.


----------



## Sivan

Not all betta fish with huge fins have a hard time swimming, though. Some are known fir their inability to function properly due to their breeding. Its sad, really, that the functionality and quality of life of these animals are altered by what we as humans view as beauty. But that speaks volumes as to our culture, does it not?


----------



## ChoclateBetta

I agree Carter's find are an inch or two but he swims perfectly.


----------



## ChoclateBetta

Fins


----------



## Skyewillow

I didn't read every page, but I just wanted to go off the "dry season/monsoon season" argument.

The Amazon goes through a dry period too, but would you use that excuse (when the fish are living in dirty little pools) to put THIS into a bowl?









Not even considering that a piranha wouldn't FIT into a bowl, but still. They go through similar conditions, and yet people still know that you can't comfortably keep a fish like this in a jar.

So, why would you put this fish in something smaller than the container your soda comes in? 









I can buy bottles of water bigger than some of the "tanks" they sell.


----------



## Fenghuang

Came across a Yahoo Answers question that really annoyed me today.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090504171154AAXR6qv



> 2.5 gallon betta tank?
> 
> Really who came up with that one?
> 
> *Bettas naturally live in rice paddies, sometimes in a water buffalo's hoof print. I know in the rainy season that the rice paddies can fill up with hundreds of gallons of water.*
> 
> Bettas have been raised in small jars and cups for centuries, ask any betta breeder and they'll tell you that they do fine in jars and bowls provided the water is changed every 3-7 days (depending on the size of the jar or bowl).
> 
> Have you ever seen a betta bowl? They are not that small! I have several bettas in bowls, though never under 1/2 gallon and they do fine.
> 
> I see a lot of "how would you like to live in a closet?" Bettas aren't people and don't require that much space. Bettas are quite happy in small bowls because they are adapted to it.
> 
> Also, all of your 2.5 gallons minimum is quite annoying, it also makes people think that bettas are hard to care for. Bettas don't like filtration since they like still water. Bettas have also adapted to room temperature quite well. I know bettas are tropical fish but the average room temp is 70F and tropical temps are 72-84F.


I loved how he picked the only answer that agreed with him and ignored blatantly all the other answers, which were pointing out flaws in his argument. Also, I highly doubt he had even bothered to look up what a rice paddie is, even if the myth that bettas originated from rice paddies was true. I lived with my grandmother in the southeastern China as a kid. We had rice paddies right down the street. They span acres. Rice is a labor intensive crop. Entire fields are flood to create the marsh/swamp-like environment necessary to grow rice properly. Certainly, much more than just a few hundred gallons is needed to fully irrigate a rice paddie.


----------



## Tyler92x

Thank you for looking into this, my friends and I were arguing about this just the other week, Thanks for all the research


----------



## SerenaRena

I've had Bettas for years, they do fine in both bowls and tanks as long as you keep their environment clean and give them proper care.

Experienced Betta owner and breeder.


----------



## XSarawut

thank you


----------



## Clayton1089

Not gonna lie that's pretty interesting


----------



## lovefordebbie

what? im confused


----------



## MattsBettas

What are you confused about?


----------



## bigbettadan

I have used everything from barracks systems to tanks and in my experience nothing beats half gal to gal mason jars with with 100% water changes every 2 to 3 days. And yes I am am a IBC champion betta breeder. Its about water quality folks! And yes temp is important as well.

Dan


----------



## Dragonlady

It is a great feeling to transfer juveniles into larger quarters.


----------



## WithinBlack

Your betta can live in those conditions, but if you really want to see them thrive I'd suggest 5 gallons at the very least and with a light and filter.


----------



## redthebetta

The picture of the klong is gone!


----------



## bigbettadan

If keeping them in 5 gal tanks was optimal for development, show breeders would do so. Yet we all don't... hmm.

Dan


----------



## Tex Arcana

This sticky needs serious updating, all of the links in the primary article are dead and gone.


----------



## TessaBear

dirtbiker250dualsport said:


> i keep my betta in a 1 gallon fish bowl it has a light above for heat but no filter i cange the water 2 a week and feed it 2 times a day four pellets is this a good enviorment or should i change a few things


 1 gallon i would say is to small, but mine are in 2 gallon tanks with no filter or anything but i do do water changes very often to keep it clean and healthy. ive had them live 4 years and more in this kind of tank, for me at least.


----------



## UserABC123

*Price of betta fish*

How much on average do bettas cost at ur country? here i am able to get bettas ranging from 1 to no more than 5 dollars in burma i'm just curious of how much they would cost. veiltails are normally $1 and dumbo ears $3 i got my giant plakat for a fair deal of $5 he's a 4 inch giant plakat


----------



## EmberDragoness

My betta and the betta before him didn't have filters... But my betta Neptune has a large tank and he seems pretty happy. It's really sad to see these tiny vases at the pet shop that don't even have enough room for the betta to turn around...
I got my old betta and my new one from Pet Co and all the bettas there are either sick, dead, or dying :/ There were one or two baby bettas that were okay, though...


----------



## kirby13580

This post has been here for a LONG WHILE...


----------



## Gallifrey

I'm just wondering why people believed those rice paddies were tiny to begin with.

My dad was born and raised in Cambodia. He grew up on a rice farm for part of his life, and he went fishing in the rice fields all the time. He caught a lot of betta fish, and ate the "normal" looking ones, but kept the "pretty" ones as pets. The rice fields are generally filled with a lot of water, by no means any "puddles". Those puddles would only happen when the season was over and the water naturally drained away or evaporated. The betta fish that didn't swim away before either of those two things happened would simply die shortly after. Other than that, bad rain season.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I agree with MattsBettas. While Betta splendens have been selectively bred for a number of years now, and there have been both physical and behavioural changes, this doesn't take away from the fact that they evolved to inhabit countries with a tropical climate. 

However, bettas are a fish that _did_ evolve to be able to cope with some fairly extreme conditions. I often think their innate hardiness is their detriment, because it has allowed for the perpetuation of the myth that an unheated 1/2 gallon bowl is an ideal environment for a betta. 

You never see people trying to force discus (another species of fish where there are 'man-made' and wild strains) to live in unheated tanks. It's really only that so many bettas seem capable of surviving conditions that would kill other fish, that this method of keeping them has continued. 

I also find that the term 'thriving' is highly subjective. For someone that has known no other way of keeping bettas, thriving may mean that the fish eats and occasionally swims around. They may disregard the bloated stomach, tattered fins and dull colouring that would concern a more experienced fishkeeper, because to them the fish must be doing great because it is still eats and swims.


----------



## trilobite

But they do live in tiny muddy puddles during the dry season....so its not a complete myth


----------



## jaysee

Just how tiny do they get in the dry season?


----------



## trilobite

Pretty tiny, if theyre lucky they wont dry out









Heres a rice paddy during the dry season


----------



## jaysee

Still looks to be at least a few gallons there, and at least 20 inches in length.

I think people get a false sense of how much water is there, even in the dry season. There's certainly way more than a half a gallon of water there. Not that I think you were advocating 0.5 gallon tanks, but when people say "tiny puddle" I have to wonder if what they envision is anything like reality. Looking at that pic I don't think it supports the notion of keeping them in tiny containers. I don't think people appreciate how small a volume that really is.


----------



## trilobite

Thats just one puddle though, theres going to be puddles way smaller than that and ones that dry out all together, killing the fish. Infact thats probably why people claim they live in elephant footprints, the paddy would have dried out completely except for the deeper imprints of the footprint which was the last to dry up.

Im not saying these fish love living in tiny puddles, in fear of drying up or starving, infact I bet they hate it. Im just pointing that its not entirely true to say bettas dont live in tiny puddles, they do it for half a year. The survivors just get rewarded with a wet season complete with massive flooded rice paddies for the other half of the year 

In fact thinking about it, that might be why my bettas blow nests more after a water change because they think the rainy season has begun and its time to start breeding/claiming territories again...
Might also be why you need to condition the fish with good quality food before breeding.. because during the dry season they wont have as much access to good food, and the presence of quality food might signals good times are ahead eg the wet season

I dunno those are just theories that popped into my head just then, would be interesting to find out what effect the dry season has on bettas though


----------



## jaysee

Water changes are well known for triggering breeding behavior, mimicking the rainy season with a shift in temp and/or chemistry.


----------



## Betta Nut

The biggest myth is that wild bettas are exactly like betta splendens 
I think a lot of people honestly think you can go to these mud puddles and catch some betta with long flowing fins that look just like what we buy in stores.
I don't think the fish I own would last very long there.


----------



## jaysee

I think you're absolutely right.


----------



## trilobite

+1 Betta Nut 
I think all our domestics would also die straight away during the wet season, so its not too fair to compare their natural habitat to that of a wild betta. Its kinda like saying a dogs natural habitat is the same as the wolfs. None of them really have a "natural habitat" anymore. 

Ive got one male who, when in a bigger tank just freezes, stops moving all together and cant handle it. So he lives in a little tank because he does much better in them.

But I do agree that most bettas prefer a bigger thank than a small one. I think 10L is a nice minimum for the average pet betta. A domestic bettas "natural habitat" is a tank, not a paddy or a puddle. So its up to the owner to keep the fish happy and healthy


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Apparently we have quite a population explosion of feral bettas up in the NT.  Just thought it was interesting with the current discussion on domesticated bettas being compared to their wild counterparts. There is also a very big problem in their native homes with hybridisation because domesticated fish are being turned loose and interbreeding with splendens complex species. Of course all the ones I've seen have been plakats and quite plain coloured. 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1012289_562579493831428_841159417_n.jpg


----------



## Valentino14

Personally i'm not a fan of the super heavily planted tanks... it's just not my thing. I think the fish needs at least some open room to view all of it's surroundings. But I could be wrong... from my understanding their natural environment is almost completely planted, obviously, being in ponds with plants everywhere.


----------



## Hallyx

Valentino14 said:


> Personally i'm not a fan of the super heavily planted tanks... it's just not my thing.


The tank isn't for you to live in. It's for your fish. 

Of course, I agree that creating a tank is the purview of the keeper, whose esthetic judgment is final.


----------



## Hallyx

No matter how far removed from their natural state and artificially-evolved into forms visually diverse and divergent from their progenitors (and Betta aren't that many generations removed as compared to, say, dogs), there remains a fundamental, intrinsic, biological hegemony derived from hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

Like their wild ancestors, store Betta still like softer water with pH in the high sixes, protein-rich food, low current, stable water temperatures in the high seventies and a generally crowded or closed in physical environment regardless of cpacity. Until these characteristics are modified by breeders, they will remain central to Betta biology.

Wild B. slendens come from paddies and bongs. Many captive bred individuals are released into the wild, much to the consternation of pure-species breeders. So many second-rate fighters have been released that it is conjectured the general wild Betta population is more aggressive than it has ever been.

I'm sure my feisty, copper plakat would survive quite easily were I to turn him loose in a rice paddy in Thailand.


----------



## TerriGtoo

*Captive vs wild bettas*

He might for a short while, but take into consideration all of the parasites and bacterial infections that are in the wild. Most captive bred bettas do not have the inmmunities that their wild counterparts do. He would probably live a short miserable life.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

A few posts up I'd mentioned that Betta splendens were becoming a problem in some of the waterways in the Northern Territory. At least that was reported (with photos) from the Australian and New Guinea Fishes Association. 

I think for many fish in the wild life is short. Admittedly, many tank bred bettas would die if let loose (certain colours and tail types probably more so than others). However, there would be others that would certainly survive. This is why as Hallyx has mentioned, hybridisation has wreaked havoc on wild populations of betta.


----------



## jarabas

*Wild bettas and betta splendans in SE Asia*

I got to see wild bettas and betta splendans in Cambodia, Indonesia and Malaysia while I was in those countries. They were in rice paddy, and irrigation canals and lotus ponds and in large cement jars that a lot of people keep in their couryards. The paddies and canals and ponds are a couple feet deep in the dry season--like up to your knees--and deeper in monsoon season--waist high. The jars are about 2 feet deep and about 2 to 3 feet across. 

From what I could see, the fish stay near the surface under lotus leaves or whatever plants are growing at the surface and eat mosquito larvae.
The air temps are between mid 80-s to 90's during the day and maybe as low as mid-70's at night. I didn't have a themometer, so I neer took the temperture of the water, but it was probably somewhat graduated--warmer at the surface and cooler down at the bottom in the daytime and vice versa at night?

One really clever thing around some buildings in Cambodia is a rectangular canal that is about a foot wide and a foot and a half to two feet deep and filled with water plants and bettas. It totally surrounds the buildings which are built on pilings that go into the water. This keeps ants out of the building. People just step over the canal.

Jan


----------



## Strawberry12

This thread was a great read  I tried to link someone to it earlier who pulled the "puddle" nonsense on me, but they just swore at me and refused to read it. *sigh* some people just can't be helped! 

It would be nice to see an updated OP though, with fully working pictures and links.


----------



## Zippy2014

Thanks for providing this info. 
I have a Betta handbook and the photos of the natural environment for them shows a small stream like area, not a puddle. There are so many misconceptions about Betta fish. A woman at my work keeps hers in a bowl. It might be about 1 gallon. I feel sorry for the boy but I guess he's used to it too. I've tried to inform people about what the betta needs are without preaching but it's difficult.

The best way to get the most accurate info is to search different sources. It sounds like you've done that


----------



## jarabas

Very few people provide evidence--it bothers me too. I think sometimes they are just repeating something they read on a forum.

I know nothing about killies. Here are some of my photos, however of rice paddy in Cambodia. I saw wild bettas in the paddy before the workers went it. You can see the water depth in these photos.

I'm also including a photo of the "canal" I described that surrounds some Cambodian buildings, to keep the ants out--it is about two feet deep with water plants and bettas in it.


----------



## semitoon101

they do not live in puddles. they live in warm rice paddies in thailand which are a foot or so deep, and one male betta can have many, many miles of territory over the rice paddy


----------



## Hallyx

They also live in slow-moving streams, swamps, bongs (small ponds) and ditches all over SE Asia. A male Betta would love to have miles of territory. But in a healthy, productive paddy or pond, he may have to settle for only a few square yards with a depth of less than a foot to several feet.

Welcome to the forum, semitoon.


----------



## NickAu

Heres an interesting read about bettas
http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2014...-tell-us-about-minimum-tank-sizes-for-bettas/


----------



## mjfa

NickAu said:


> Heres an interesting read about bettas
> AMAZONAS Videos: Bettas in the Wild - What They Tell Us About Tank Size


Thank you! Excellent reading.


----------

