# If I have enough plants do I need a filter?



## KingPopzy (Aug 22, 2015)

Like... if 1/3 of the bottom of the tank was moss balls. Or just a bunch of plants in general. I think it would be cool to have a tank run by plants. Plus it woulden't push around my betta
If this is a thing. how many plants would I need in a 36 gallon with a bristle nose pleco and a betta?


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## Bella24 (May 6, 2015)

I think you would need a lot of fast growing plant to be able to have a silent cycle. I have a marimo moss ball, and it grow very slooooooowly. I think fast growing plants would consume more ammonia and nitrates then som slow one. So In my opinion, you should get as many plants as you could spend on. They really help a lot, and makes the tank looks really nice. Sorry Im really addicted to planted tank. >~<


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## KingPopzy (Aug 22, 2015)

No don't be sorry! You answered my question


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## Zegor22 (Sep 7, 2015)

Filters actually hold nitrifying bacteria, but if you have a enough plants it would work . Once I had a minnow live in a one gallon with like 20 jungle val, so doable but fast growers needed . Duckweed is terrible( so fast it over runs the tank), and you can just look up nitrate sponge plants or fast growers . Ultimately the plants would use any nutrients the fish process instead of bacteria.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Technically, yes, if you had enough fast growing tanks, and a low enough bioload, you could have no filter. I believe there are some ppl who run heavily planted tanks with no filters at all. Moss doesn't grow fast enough, but guppy grass, cabomba, and other stem plants might. You'd probably also want floating plants as well. Water sprite, amazon frogbit, salvinia minima, etc. 
If you maximized planted area with fast growing plants, and minimized your bioload, it's definitely doable.


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

You should remember though that in order to achieve maximum growth of a heavily planted tank, you do need good lighting and careful fertilisation, and probably CO2 as well. You might not need all of these initially apart from good lighting, but as the plants continue to grow they might start to deplete the available nutrients in the substrate/water column being produced by the fish and if you start to see signs of deficiencies you might need to be prepared to add these in, so it's a good idea to do a little research and find products you think would work. It's a bit of a balancing act when you first set it up, but once you have the right balance you'll soon be having to trim them back weekly!

From personal experience, Seachem Flourish Comprehensive is a great product. Seachem produce a range of macro fertilisers as well but you would need to test the levels to add these effectively. You can also get combined macros which are a little easier to use. I found a small CO2 diffuser greatly improved the growth rate of my plants as well.

I happen to love duckweed... it is messy but you can easily scoop clumps of it out if they overgrow the top of the tank, and they do perform wonders for water quality. If you're trying to achieve a silent cycle then I'd at least consider it, since it's just about the fastest growing thing out there. Water wisteria is a fast grower too, as is anacharis. Hornwort is another one to consider. It's a good idea to float all the stem plants for a few weeks when you first put them in to allow them to get used to your water conditions before planting them. This will reduce the length of time they take to start regrowing after the initial die-back phase.


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## aqua hero (May 13, 2015)

Do some research on Walstad Tanks and read the 'Ecology of a planted Aquarium'


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

dannifluff, thank goodness I'm not the only person who loves duckweed.  It's messy and it gets EVERYWHERE, but it does amazing things for water quality.


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## aqua hero (May 13, 2015)

aselvarial said:


> dannifluff, thank goodness I'm not the only person who loves duckweed.  It's messy and it gets EVERYWHERE, but it does amazing things for water quality.


I use to love duckweed in my old tank because it made my water quality awesome. But I had to get rid of it because my water flow has increased and I need alot of light to penetrate. I use water lettuce and Potho in my HOB as a substitute for the duckweed


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## Lilypad (Oct 15, 2014)

Another duckweed lover here! I have it mixed with Salvinia minima and it's great for keeping the water clean. 

Just do NOT put it in the water area of a tree frog tank...unless you want all the walls covered in duckweed....LOL


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## KingPopzy (Aug 22, 2015)

Oh man I don't know if I could handle all that haha. To broke for ferts and stuff sadly


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

You may not need it straight away, or if you pick your plant species carefully. It's just worth bearing in mind, as for the silent cycle to work the plants need to be growing nice and healthily.

But plants such as hornwort, duckweed, anacharis... as long as you have decent lighting you might just be able to get away with decent root tabs or something.


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## KingPopzy (Aug 22, 2015)

okay I will keep that in mind ; u ;


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## RNHime (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm going to come in with my 2 cents! Short answer: yes! But of course you must do it properly.

Before we moved I had a few small tanks and vases going with aquarium plants (once we moved I got to put everything together in our new 30g tank that we had room for - yay!) in various places around the house. One tank was a 3g with a heater placed in front of a decently sunny window. It was home to a crowntail betta, two nerite snails (they lived off algae & poo), and a lot of plants. A ceramic hidey cave, thermometer and decorative tiny fish bowl were the only "hardscape" items. Water wisteria, Java ferns, Marimo balls, a pot of hairgrass... there may have been others. The tank was barebottom, and unfiltered. I dutifully did my 100% water changes each week, but I _never_ scrubbed the tank. I wanted whatever BB I might have growing to stay growing if at all possible. Gradually during water tests I noticed a funny thing happening. The tank acted cycled; the water was stable. I switched from 100% water changes to partials. Eventually the 30g tank was set up and the 3g housed extra plants, left running as a backup for a little while in case we had any emergencies with the new tank, but I honestly was sad to let it go after it's job was done!

I have fondness for a betta in an unfiltered tank. They are just so still & zen. But keep in mind if you have nothing stirring the water the water will be warmer around the heater and at the top, cold at the bottom. (Our betta never seemed to care, but it was a little surprising when I went to move something at the bottom!)

So it's definitely doable, and it doesn't have to be high tech; I never dosed that tank with fertilizers, the plants were literally just sitting in water - I think the only vital thing that might require more $$ would be a good light, but even that is a maybe. I personally wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 3g, I'd go for at least 5 so I could have ALL THE PLANTS. =D If you choose low maintenance plants that do their jobs cleaning the water and only want light & fish poop in return, you should be good!

My suggestion would be to start with your tank, plants, substrate, decor, etc etc. Hopefully you can seed the bacterial colony with items from another aquarium. Let it start with the plants, light and heat. Add a snail or two (hopefully ones that won't reproduce and run amok) or some shrimp; let them take care of the algae. I think it's key to not scrub anything that BB can grow on. Let that go and monitor the water with a good test kit for as long as you can stand it/until it seems stable, then add your betta. They really are low-waste fish so long as they eat all the food you give them, so they don't have much impact when there are lots of plants. Obviously continue to monitor the tank until you know for sure that it's stable.

Not saying that "regular" set-ups are bad, but sometimes we make things too complicated! =P

Oh, about duckweed. I have a little growing in my tank, it's really easy to control by scooping the excess off the surface. Only time it looks "messy" is when it's not on the surface, and that only happen when a shrimp drags a piece down (they cling upside-down to floating plant roots) or it gets pushed under by the filter flow... which would be a non-issue in an unfiltered tank.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> But keep in mind if you have nothing stirring the water the water will be warmer around the heater and at the top, cold at the bottom.


With some of the smaller tanks some members have, I wonder if adding a heat pad under the tank would help?
Something like this?
http://img.myshopping.com.au/rsz400...wNTI1OUE_REQ2RDhEODM_OTZFQjAzQ_Y1NkI_RTAuanBn


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## RNHime (Mar 12, 2015)

NickAu said:


> With some of the smaller tanks some members have, I wonder if adding a heat pad under the tank would help?
> Something like this?
> http://img.myshopping.com.au/rsz400...wNTI1OUE_REQ2RDhEODM_OTZFQjAzQ_Y1NkI_RTAuanBn


Interesting thought! It probably would, though I'd want to do more research first and make sure you had the right model for your needs, and that it was reliable. Also, I'd monitor for overheating if you had a submersible heater and pad working together, seems like they could become overzealous. The wet heater would switch off if the water was warm enough, but the pad below might keep cranking out the heat? =/


Are there pad heaters with thermostats?? =o

Not sure, I need to sleep now, but thanks for the input! If it's a really small tank you might get more even heating with a pad alone, depending on ambient room temp and all that other good stuff. =)


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## mattdocs12345 (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm gonna give a silent cycle a try. I'm in the process of getting 2x 5 gallon rimless tanks. One will have my Betta fish and the other will have guppies (something tells me Betta is better alone). I will have both cycled with internal filters and both will have fast growing plants. Then I will take out filter from one tank and measure everyday ammonia and nitrates. We will see if my plants grow fast enough. Right now I have them growing about 1 inch per week.


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## RNHime (Mar 12, 2015)

mattdocs12345 said:


> I'm gonna give a silent cycle a try. I'm in the process of getting 2x 5 gallon rimless tanks. One will have my Betta fish and the other will have guppies (something tells me Betta is better alone). I will have both cycled with internal filters and both will have fast growing plants. Then I will take out filter from one tank and measure everyday ammonia and nitrates. We will see if my plants grow fast enough. Right now I have them growing about 1 inch per week.


I think bettas are best alone in 5g, too. Maybe a single snail if it's a well cycled tank, and/or shrimp. Most other "companion" fish want to be in numbers that overstock a 5g, or just plain get too big! Is a 5g enough for a group of guppies? I'm not that familiar with their stocking/schooling and space requirements.

Let us know how it goes!


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