# Bloated Betta Fish - Possible Ick...



## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Hi, guys. I was wondering if you could help me out with a problem I'm having with my fish, Peter. He's bloated, and he might have Ick. I'll get pics in a second because it's really obvious that they would help, but in the meantime, enjoy this information:

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1.5g (Currently in 0.5g Hospital Tank)
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter? Yes (Not in Hospital Tank)
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? No
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Wardley Betta Pellets, Tetra BettaMin, and Tetra Bloodworms (In random order, to avoid food boredom)
How often do you feed your betta fish? Everyday (Once)

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 1-2wks
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: N/A
Nitrite: N/A
Nitrate: N/A
pH: N/A
Hardness: N/A
Alkalinity: N/A

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? He is very bloated and MAY have Ick
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He is occasionaly lethargic, but is otherwise normal and swimming around most of the time.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? I was gone for a few weeks, but the person taking care of the fish noticed it on Monday.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Yes. On that Monday after he got a little blated fter his food, he got put into a Hospital Tank. On Tuesday, we did not feed him, and he got more bloated. On Wednesday, we feed him some pea as a laxative, and gave him a espon salt bath for 20min. Same thing on friday. 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Once he got lethargic due to low temperature.
How old is your fish (approximately)? 2 years


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Most people would consider a 1.5g to be a hospital tank. You can't cycle something of that size so a filter in it would only stress him out. I would remove it.

Also of a bowl that size you need two weekly changes - one 50% and one 100%. The 100% should include a rinsing of the gravel and any other ornaments in the bowl. f you're only doing a change up to two weeks ammonia will very very high which will lead to him getting sick.

He also needs a heater unless your house stays 80F+ consistently. You will also need an in tank thermometer to monitor temps carefully because you can't get a good quality adjustable heater for something that small and the lower end ones tend to overheat the water. If you got him into something more like 2gallons + then you could get a good adjustable heater.

You left additives blank.. are you not using any condition? Conditioner must always be used. In something that small Prime is useful because it will render ammonia harmless in ways most won't.

Alternating pellets is fine. Feedings should be split up as his stomach is about the size of his eye. You can feed like 2 in the morning and another couple at night, for example. He also needs a fast day a week. Blood worms should be fed no more than one or two worms once a week as treats.

Ich is a sprinkling of salt. It is not bloating. Photos would be helpful.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Ok, I'll get to adding pictures, but I don't condition it, because I buy Pre-Prepared water. I'm going to go and by some supplies today.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

What exactly is in your prepared water and what is the source of the water itself?


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

The water contains, according to the side of the jug, just treated water, because there isn't an ingredient list, and "an extra boost" of something called AQUABIOTIC BOTANICAL; it claims to have bacteria and natural extracts to lessen the need for changes and gravel cleaning, but I dont think it does anything. It also claims to add "essential electrolytes". And since he MIGHT have ick, should I give him any of the following?: Melafix, BettaRevive, QuICK Cure. Anyway, I am following your advice and getting bigger tanks today and doing water changes. Thanks for the help on that. I fed him one pellet today, not more, because the bloating as bad already as it is. And should I feed he Daphne, or any other laxative, because I don't want to feed him anymore peas, in fear of damaging his digestion system. I am going to get testing strips and post them soon.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Ask the store what type of water it is and what exactly is put in it. They should know or be able to find out. Here is one ingredient: http://www.caribsea.com/itempage_bluesolutions_aquabioticbotanical.htm <- I have never heard of this stuff. 

Can you share photos and confirm that what you're seeing is salt sprinkled on his body because bloat isn't ick. Do you see scales sticking out? Don't use betta revive or melafix. Melafix is lethal to bettas because it smothers their labrynth organ and betta revive is a huge drug cocktail.

I would generally avoid peas, but just for future reference when/if you feed them you want to feed no more than once a week and it needs to be frozen or fresh not canned. Put one pea in a cup with a little of his tank water and nuke it in the microwave for 10 seconds. Take the shell off the pea and you see the pea inside has two parts. Take one part (half the pea) and break it into tiny pieces and feed a little at a time. You can feed 1/4 to 1/2 the pea but no more.

For the bloat, I would get some espom salt. It needs to be pure with no additives and you need to check the ingredients label to make sure nothing but epsom salt (Magnesium sulfate 100%) is present. You can get them at the pharamacy section of most grocery stores. I know CVS Pharmacy carries a brand that works. Predssolve 1/4 to 1 tsp per gallon and then add it to his water. That'll be a good start but when you can get more info and pictures we can comment on what else may need to be done.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

OK. To be safe I have checked with the stores, so there isn't any ick. They don't think it's dropsy. One, (Petsmart), said it was liquid and needed to be drained. I don't trust that. I am giving him 20 minute salt baths everyday with espom salt, and I have been doing that for a few days. One small store said that I should feed him for a week or two. He has some fin rot, so would Betta Revive help? I'm going to get pictures, but my camera is charging so we'll have to wait a bit. But, are you saying that espom salt will make it go away?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

You can leave him in the Epsom salt for weeks. No need to do baths. Epsom salt may help if its constipation or fluid build up, but depending on what's causing the bloat, it may or may not fix it.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Oh, it might be fluid. Thanks for the validation, but if it's constipation, will the bloated part be clear, because when I shine light through it's clear. Anyway, about the salt, should I slowly introduce him, or put him in immediately. I am not sure what to do regarding that, as he does not seem to like the salt baths at all (not a surprise), and I am scared I might shock him. It would be great if anyone could answer these questions.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Some people start with 1 full tsp per gallon. Personally, I would start with 1/4 tsp and add a quarter every hour or so on up to the full tsp. The reason is even if the salts themselves are not stressful they can effect the ph. The softer the water the harder the swing and in very soft water it can cause a very large quick swing. Leave him it that 1-2 weeks or at least 1 week past when the bloat is fully gone. Make sure you increase water changes at outlined above and get him a heater. It is very hard to keep a betta healthy in anything smaller than 2.5g so consider upgrading his container. Don't use a filter in the 1.5g and a 2.5g won't need one either unless you want to use a sponge filter.

Can you share photos? Is there any pine coning? He may need meds in addition to epsoms.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Start with 1tsp per gallon. You can work up to three per gallon with Epsom salt. I would still slowly acclimate him to the salt. He may be more irritated with being in a smaller container than with the salt. Epsom salt is very mild and can be used long term in certain chronic-bloat cases.

I think that fluid build up causes it to be clear, yes. I also believe it is a side effect of internal organ failure, although it may not always be the case. If he is bloated and still pooping, it is not from constipation. The salt acts not only as a laxative but it can also draw fluid from the body. Watch closely for pineconing.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Sorry about going so long without pictures, but yes there seems to be pineconing, but only on the bloated part, the rest of the body seems to be fine. I believe that the pineconing on the bloated part is a result of the bloat and the scales moving to fit.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah. Some people don't seem to believe that, though, but many say that bloating can cause slight pineconing and dropsy would cause it all over the body and not just around the belly area.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can have absolutely giant bellys and have zero pine coning or you can have a small amount of bloat and some pine coning. pine coning just around the belly is GI dropsy.. fluid build up under the skin not just inside the abdomen. Epsoms salts and meds are required. Treat for at least two weeks and at least one full week past full recovery. The best med I have found is Kanaplex. If you can't find it you can try Maracyn Plus. Those two have the best reliability. Past that you can try Furan 2 and anything with Erythromycin but they are not nearly as effective.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Ok, thanks. What happens if I just do salt baths? Is the GI Dropsy lethal?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

No need to do baths with Epsom salt. You can leave him in it. Dropsy is almost always lethal if not treated quick enough but GI dropsy I'm not sure...


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Thanks, I'll phase him in slowly. I heard somewhere they took their betta to the vet and have the stuff drained. I doubt that works. I'll see what callistra says.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I have seen some people who pricked their bettas bellies with a needle an it drained an all was well after that... However it is very dangerous to do something like this and I do NOT recommend it. After treating with everything else possible I might try this if the Betta is doing very poorly and I was sure he was going to die if I didn't do SOMETHING.

No one here will recommend that you drain the fluid yourself, or try to. It may not even work and could cause other infections.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'd do Epsom salts and if that isn't helpful I'd add internal antibiotic like kanaplex. I have no experience with draining fish and I would not suggest it unless you have a GOOD fish vet with lots of EXPERIENCE doing this. Otherwise I would totally avoid it and even then I would use it as a last ditch effort

As was reminded to me recently, you can also feed meds if you can find a source of metroidazole

Gi dropsy can be lethal but it doesn't tend to move nearly as fast as the full body pineconing


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

So, I use kanaplex? Where do I get it and how do I use it?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Kanaplex is by Seachem and isn't very easy to find. Seachems website has a big list of websites that sell their products but I don't think it's found in stores often..


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Ok. I found it online. But I'm not sure if the disease is bloating or dropsy. Should I try just salt and anti-parasite food, to make sure its not dropsy, but bloat. If so, how long should I have him be in the espom salt? How exactly do I maintain the saltwater? If not, what are the spefific directions for Kanaplex? My betta also has fin rot, what should I use to treat fin rot that cooperates with the saltwater and/or Kanaplex?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Use one tsp per gallon of Epsom salt and make sure it is completely dissolved before adding it. You can work your way up to 3tsps per gallon. Epsom salt is mild. Use stress coat by API for the fin rot and keep the water clean. You can mix that with the salt and your other water conditioner or just use it as your only water conditioner if you don't use Prime.

Watch his poo. If he is pooping and still bloated, he has some kind of internal infection and it would be a good idea to treat with Kanaplex. It may be able to be mixed with the salt but see what callistra says.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

+1 If poo white,clear, stringy then it can be internal parasites. If it normal color and he get more bloated/raised scales despite fasting -3tsp/gall epsom with meds daily 100% water changes , introduce betta slowly to the new water.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Well, once he pooed white & stringy. I haven't seen him poo after that. I'll try adding the stress coat. Is it possible he has a parasite?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It's either parasite or bacterial. It's definitely an infection. Generally speaking, with parasite infections you'll see an increase in movement, darting, zig zag dance, etc. You'll also eventually see some weight loss. With bacterial I've seen more of a lethargic nature, not as much weight loss in most cases and more likelihood of food refusal. Also you're a lot more likey to see internal bacterial infections if you have cases of chronic constipation and keeping bettas at cold temps and poor water conditions while parasite infections tend to happen from feeding live or sometimes even frozen foods, but not freeze dried.

You're a lot more likely to have a bacterial infection, imho, but there's not guarantee. 

Epsom salts for sure. Then you can either use the kanaplex bath for bacterial treatment, or treat for parasites with an antiparasite feed or I know AyalaCookiejar had some luck with some Jungle Parasite Clear product. 

If you're using Kanaplex you need to treat for two full weeks using the instructions on the tube and then reevaluate. If you're going for parasites then you treat a minimum of two weeks AND at least one full week past when symptoms completely disappear. Meaning, if he's pooping totally normal after one week continue for two weeks. If he's not pooping totally normal until the end of two weeks treat a total of three. You can also mix up feed for internal parasite infections, or use a bath like the Parasite Clear stuff.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

I kind of think it internal parasites since he has white,clear,stringy poo and bloated. Bloating come from parasites in the stomach.

When you use epsom salt it helps to purge any internal parasites out it he has them.



Edit : All that callistra wrote make sense but also fish naturally have parasites and if the immune system compromised then it attach the body.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Epsom salt did not help my guy for over a week until I tried Parasite Clear and it helped tremendously in only 24 hours. He pooped out 3 large worms within the 24 hours after adding the medication so the Epsom salt may have helped with that but it didn't do anything on its own.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

You right Epsom salt will not treat internal parasites without meds. It will help though. It really fine to use epsom salt along with medications.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Ok, I'm getting him a 5g hospital tank with a heater and filter, but I was wondering if I could treat him with Kanaplex and Parasite Clear at the same time.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That wouldn't be a good idea. Both meds are heavy hitters. I would choose one or the other. Honestly, the likelihood that you have a bacterial infection far exceeds parasite, but it's your choice what you want to treat for since it could technically be either.

Cycling a 5 gallon with a heater is a great idea and will help him stay healthier in the long run. For now though, he may have difficulty swimming and I would probably not worry about turning on the filter until he's well. With a 5 gallon uncycled you just need one weekly 100% water change. When you do the wter changes, put your thermometer under the tap and adjust the temp until it is equal to the tank's temp. That way when you fill it up with new water it will be as close to the same temp as possible - you may still have a couple of degrees error but that's okay. Make sure to float him in a cup and acclimate him slowly each time to avoid shock. 

Cycling will take 3-8 weeks once you start on it and that's not something you want to do with an already sick fish. He needs clean water right now. Plus the meds may harm your bb growth.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Ok, I have a feeling this is a stupid question, but is this bacteria or parasite contagious? (In the sense that if He comes back in this tank, would the [bacteria/parasite] still possibly infect him, or any other of my bettas?)


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes, they both are. But leaving a tank empty for a month should end that. You can fully disinfect it by using white distilled vinegar soak for about 15 minutes then rinsing very very well.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

also use boiling water for disinfection.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

if he has difficulty to swim or if he has dropsy he might have that problem you better to keep him in smaller bowl it will be easier for him to swim to the top. So i would wait until he is completely recovered before you transfer him to new tank. Or you can transfer him and if he will have to difficulty to swim you will just need to lower the water.
Also a lot of people recommending to use vinegar just like callistra told you to do and a lot of people recommending to use 10% of the clorax. That what i would do . You just need to wash it very well with hot,warm,cold water, wipe it, rinse it again and let it sit in the sun to completely dry it out. And prince it again. But it only for the tank itself.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Well, I called a small pet store in regards to Kanaplex, and asked about it. Some guy said he was filled up, and I would be "wasting money on meds." I think he has no idea this is dropsy/infection. This Only Problem I have with a bowl is that my house is really cold and I can't heat it. I need a heated tank so I can treat him. How should I get that in order?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can buy a heater and thermometer for the bowl or you can get an acrylic bowl around 2 gallons and fill it half full and float it in a larger heated tank.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

This is what I did ^ floated a one gallon in my five gallon. It's worked great!


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Okay, Ill try floating.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Good luck!


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

But, quick question, how exactly to I float it? Does it have to be secure. If so, how?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yes, make sure it is secured so it doesn't tip over. You can use something to attach it to the side of the tank or you can do what I did and lower the water level in the larger tank so it kind of sits on the bottom of the tank. This could cause the heat to distribute unevenly but it's worked for me.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

Hi again. I got the Kanaplex, but on the bootle it said that I do one dose every two days or a maximum of 3 doses? what does that mean? Can I only use it for 9 days? Someone please explain the dosing. Also, does he get a timed bath in the Kanaplex water, or does live in it?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You use one level scoopful for ever 5 gallons. You need to dilute the med for the exact amount of water he's in. So if you got a 2 gallon acrylic bowl and put 1 gallon of water in it you'd dilute for 1 gallon. how much water is he in? It's been a week so I'm trying to remember everything that's happened.. have you at least started epsom salts by now?

You dose every other day.

Day 1: 100% water change, dose
Day 2: skip
Day 3: 100% water change, dose
Day 4: skip
Day 5: 100% water change, dose
Day 6: Skip

That is one full round. You can continue for another full week
Day 7: 100% water change, dose
Day 8: skip
Day 9: 100% water change, dose
Day 10: skip
Day 11: 100% water change, dose
Day 12: skip


You can do this for 2 weeks. Dose and do the water change at the same time every day so he gets meds every 48 hours.


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## BettaRepublic (May 22, 2011)

I already divided the meds, and I just needed dosing. Thanks for the help.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can't divide in powder form, you know this right? You need to do liquid divisions.

Good luck! Make sure you're using the epsom salts too..


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