# MattsBettas fish journal!



## MattsBettas

So, be been meaning to start a journal. I really should stop commenting so much on some other members journals lol. I'll try to get lots of pics but technology is a pain in the butt and won't let that happen at the moment, which is very frustrating. 

It sounds like I have a lot of pets, but when you think about the fact that everything but the male bettas and the crayfish (and my lizard obviously lol) can be kept together, its not THAT bad. So, I have:
-six male bettas 
-six female bettas
-one self cloning crayfish (more to come... Obviously)
-two african dwarf frogs
-three male guppies
-one endler
-two female guppies
-four shrimp
-one pleco
-one swordtail
-way to many ramshorn snails.
-and one leopard gecko

And that doesn't include fry. I swear it isn't as bad as it sounds. Since this is a betta forum, I'll tell you all a bit more about my bettas. I'm horrible with names, so not all of them have names. My five males, who all live in divided tanks, are:

- Spike, a beautiful halfmoon purchased from logisticsguy. He will be bred in the future, but right now he is just a spoilt little boy who (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit this) I had to put on a diet. logisticsguy keeps his fish well fed and me making sure he is full sure doesn't help. He lives in a divided, heated, and filtered five gallon tank with:
- My unnamed black traditional plakat. I bought this guy as a female from petland for a grand total of three dollars. He's one of my favorites. He will also be bred in the future, to Freckles. 
- Jackson, a white and blue super delta. He lives in a divided ten gallon with Xanthus and Ares. I got all three of them from Sena Hansler when she had to rehome. Jackson got on to Xanthus's side somehow two days after I got him, and I was at school at the time and I did not know how long he had been in there but I took him out, put him back on his side, and even though at the time he was bleeding and his fins were tattered, with clean, warm water and ial, he is making a great recovery.
-Xanthus, a yellow butterfly halfmoon also from Sena Hansler. This guy has a lot of personality. He did not get damaged nearly as much as Jackson in their fight.
-Ares, a dragonscale with red fins (armadillo), who has already produced over 200 fry. He is currently in the spawn tank with Jess, hopefully I will get a nice spawn.
-My unnamed ee. I bought this guy as a female from petland (a new employee thought all bettas were the same and gave me this $25 fish as an exchange for my $6 crowntail who passed shortly after I purchased him). I know better then to trust what the petstore says, so I looked at him and he looked pretty female to me. Lets just say that he is an awful sorority member. He will soon go in the divided ten gallon (Ares, Jackson, Xanthus).

And the girls: 

Lilith- The fourth fish I got from Sena, a Cambodian crowntail. She is the alpha.
Freckles- The girl I chose from logisticsguy (CJ). She's a nice marble. She will be bred with my black plakat sometime. Spikes sister. 
Jess- A dragonscale geno halfmoon with nice, yellow fins. I got her at petland, somehow. She is currently in the spawn tank with Ares.
Unnamed ct girl- I really love this girl. She has a unique blue-orange color, but she is really beat up and currently in treatment for a unidentifiable external parasite.
Unnamed white pla kat girl- Another petland find. A real sweetheart in the sorority.
Unnamed red veiltail girl- My oldest fish at the time. Lots of personality. I can't go near the water in the sorority without getting bit lol. 

So yea. My self cloning crayfish is berried, my lizard is old and happy, etc. I will post updates on the spawn and make a real spawn log if its successful. Thanks for reading!


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## logisticsguy

I am going to be a regular in your journal. Ive put all my fish on a diet well mostly the females lol. Regular fast day now every Friday and 2 meals a day not 3. It appears to be working and I try to spoil them less with often with treats. It will be great when you can post pics. Good luck with your spawn!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks! I'm fasting on Sundays now. Spawns going well, Ares is like "BREED WITH ME" but Jess is being stubborn hahaha.


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## MattsBettas

And folks we have an embrace! It's beautiful.


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## MattsBettas

No eggs yet, normal for first time moms.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Awesome pic!! Good luck! They might not even drop eggs until the last couple embraces. Good luck!


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## logisticsguy

Yay! Looking good.


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## MattsBettas

Well, spawn was a success. Eggs are now in the nest (probably around 80. Maybe more), Jess is out (with very little damage- I'm quite impressed) and now ares gets to do his thing. Yay!


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## belleangel33

Congrats on your spawn!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks!


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## Snoeflayke

That is very cool!


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## MattsBettas

Ares is still doing a great job, I left a flash light on during the night so that he could find his eggs and I could still sleep lol. Woke up and a few are on the bottom, but he's still working away.


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## BeautifulBetta123

That is great news! Congratulations!


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## MattsBettas

There are eggs all over the ground, but ares is actively collecting them and the majority are in the nest, so I'm not worrying. Yesterday I counted the eggs on the floor (it didn't look lik many) and there were 58. This is a fairly good sized spawn!


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## MattsBettas

Ugh. Ares kinda slacked on his bubble nest and his eggs just fall out. The majority are on the ground, but he tries! Hopefully they will still hatch.


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## BeautifulBetta123

They will still hatch but leave him in there and do not disturb him! Watch for fungus on the eggs and remove all infected ones, they should be fine.


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## MattsBettas

I know. I'm so frustrated with him, but they should hatch tommorow and we'll see how it goes I guess. I'm hopeful!


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## MattsBettas

So... All of my fish are good, Jess (the mom) is recovering very well and has tiny amounts of damage. I still have a lot of hope for this spawn. It's not like he leaves them to rot on the bottom, he picks them up, spits them into his failure of a nest, then they fall again. All eggs look healthy still. They should hatch tomorrow. Lets hope for the best!


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## MattsBettas

The fry are hatching! Argh!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Good luck!


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## logisticsguy

Terrific. Your in for an exciting day Matt!


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## belleangel33

Congrats on the fry hatching, my last HMPK spawn was just like yours dad had a horrible nest and was just constantly pick up eggs and then fry because his nest was horrendous


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## MattsBettas

Update: I got home from school and the vast majority are now hatched. None free swimming. All seem healthy. Yay! Spawn log soon.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay!! Good luck!


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## belleangel33

MattsBettas said:


> Update: I got home from school and the vast majority are now hatched. None free swimming. All seem healthy. Yay! Spawn log soon.


Congrats on the Hatching I can't wait to watch your spawn log!


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## logisticsguy

Update Matt? Any freestyle swimmers yet?


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## MattsBettas

No free swimmers yet. They all seem to be doing well however. No more are on the ground! There has to be at least 150.


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## MattsBettas

Ooh there is an announcement. I've never seen one of those on here before.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Announcement? Wow lots of fry! Good luck! Want the ct fry on Saturday, I also can bring you the cultures and do you want the gravel still?


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## MattsBettas

I don't have room for the ct. I will soon, but not before Saturday. I NEED A RACK! Lol. What color gravel? And yes yes yes remember the cultures. 

Hatching brine shrimp is a horrible, tedious task. Lol. I like microworms way better. I set the hatchery all up then had to take it all apart and move it to the hallway because it was to loud for me to sleep. Gah.


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## MattsBettas

Edit: I double posted somehow. Please ignore this lol.


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## MattsBettas

Fry are all good. None free swimming.


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## MattsBettas

I expect free swimming fry tomorrow. I super excited for Saturday, me and BeautifulBetta123 are meeting at a big pet store. Oh the things I get excited about. It will make this long, long week all worth it.


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## MattsBettas

Well, the fry are fry swimming. Time for dad to come out and food to go in!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Be are full as you don't want him to get stressed  
Good luck now you are officially their dad lol.


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## MattsBettas

Lol yup. I am very, very carefully acclimating. I am going to pm you now about shipping and such.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah just replied to CJ.


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## MattsBettas

Oh so you heard? I just pm'ed you lol.


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## logisticsguy

This me all red faced embarrased. How do u like hatching bbs? lil bit of a pain isnt it!


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## MattsBettas

Ooh I hate it. The hatching, the harvesting... Ugh. I like the worms soooo much better... Even with the smell.


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## BeautifulBetta123

CJ Cowan!!! Delete some pm in your inbox! You are so stuffed full my message can't get through! Lol hey Matt just noticed you standing there hahaha my freak out on CJ is over see you later *awkwardly walk away*


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## MattsBettas

Lol. Feel free to post whatever you want on here!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Had to post my pm on his profile page seeing as you can't have too many visitor messages lol.
Maybe we still can meet this weekend.
Here is a pic of the colour ful gravel, another bucket of black and some blue black mix and yellow. But only have enough blue black for a five gal and enough yellow for a five gal.
This stuff has some larger polished stones that you can also have.


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## MattsBettas

Pic? What pic? Hahaha. I need gravel for my crayfish, color doesn't matter much to me. I love black gravel though. Since that crayfish tub is definatly not for decorative purposes it doesn't matter lol.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Had to post my pm on his profile page seeing as you can't have too many visitor messages lol.
Maybe we still can meet this weekend.
Here is a pic of the colour ful gravel, another bucket of black and some blue black mix and yellow. But only have enough blue black for a five gal and enough yellow for a five gal.
This stuff has some larger polished stones that are in it, you get it all I want it gone!


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## MattsBettas

Ok. What do the others look like?


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## BeautifulBetta123

Picture of Winter when he had yellow gravel in his tank


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## MattsBettas

Ooooooooh winter is amazing... I like the gravel to. It's free, right? If not then how much?


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## BeautifulBetta123

You don't need to pay, but if you insist there is no stopping you lol. More snails!! Yay! Lol. Winter likes your comment, for some reason everyone loves the old, partially blind, lethargic male except me jk I love him but all he does is take up space and give me another wc to do. Now for finding or taking a pic of the blue black gravel.


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## MattsBettas

What will you do with all your retired breeders then? I completely understand though. He is still a beautiful fish!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Here is a pic of the blue black stuff, there are some pink plastic things that I will pick out for you.


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## MattsBettas

Ooh I like that. I would put that in the 5 that's waiting for my "imports".


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## BeautifulBetta123

As for old retired breeders, I might sell them but I think if he serves me well and throws many nice fry then he can live out his days in my care, as for females they live in the sorority and since they can be bred at older ages they can live out the last of their days in the sorority. Winter was bought with intentions of being bred but I realized how crappy his finnage was and I could not get a good white female to breed with him and now he is too old and lethargic to be safely bred.


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## MattsBettas

Oh. Females are great. I love sororities lol. I like divided tanks because you can keep "useless" males without taking up much room lol! Ares is now retired and he gets to stay with me,in his nice warm home.


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## MattsBettas

Shae, would it be possible for you to get the dimensions of the metal rack?


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah sure  
The shelves are adjustable so you can move them up and down. I will go mesure it right now.


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## BeautifulBetta123

So it is three feet long and one and a half feet wide


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## MattsBettas

Oh ok! Thanks! So it's three feet tall?


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## BeautifulBetta123

No I will find out how tall it is.


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## MattsBettas

Ok. Thanks!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Not tonight, I won't be able to get the measurements, I feel like my life is a living hell. Want to get away, escape, to anyw where but here


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## MattsBettas

Oh no why? PM me if you want. Get the measurements to me when you can...


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## MattsBettas

Fry are all good. Rescued a pair of pregnant ghost shrimp destined as feeders.


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## BeautifulBetta123

That good! Poor ghost shrimp! Our Pet Smart never has shrimp because this guy comes in on the day they are shipped in and buys them all to feed to his fish 
Let us know how they do!


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## royal

Congrats on the fry!


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## MattsBettas

Fry are all good. I have to go to school tomorrow


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## BeautifulBetta123

Good! Did you start a spawn log yet? You should! 
I am really not looking forward to school either


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## MattsBettas

Nah. I don't know if I will. If you want updated just ask though. School sucks. Sign, only three more months. Then we have summer, then we start school once again. Fml lol.


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## belleangel33

congrats on the fry!


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## MattsBettas

Picture!!! 







6 days


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## BeautifulBetta123

So cute! Glad they are doing good!


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## MattsBettas

Ooh! Shae!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Just made another one for my meeting tomorrow  
Let me know what you thought of it!


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## MattsBettas

I really liked it. It didn't rise to much though. Sure tasted amazing!


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## trilobite

Congrats! Cant wait to see how the babies turn out :-D


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## MattsBettas

Me neither! They SHOULD look like dad. But you know, genetics:roll:...


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## BeautifulBetta123

Do you have a pic of Jess? I haven't seen her yet!


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## MattsBettas

I'll try... Wait one sec.


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## MattsBettas

*Mom*

Ok... She is not photogenic at all, forgive the stripes, she got scared of the camera.









It also makes her look lumpy... She actually has a close to perfect topline. Lol.


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## BeautifulBetta123

We're did you get her??? She is very pretty!


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## MattsBettas

Petco, surprisingly. A gem IMO. Fairly good finnage and nice color. She doesn't have 180 but she has 8 rays (I think). Will TRY to get a nicer pic later...


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## BeautifulBetta123

It's okay you don't need to. PetCo?


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## trilobite

MattsBettas said:


> Ok... She is not photogenic at all, forgive the stripes, she got scared of the camera.
> 
> View attachment 100657
> 
> 
> It also makes her look lumpy... She actually has a close to perfect topline. Lol.


That is a real nice female! Lucky find


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## MattsBettas

No no... I have petco on my mind XD. Petland I mean. Petland.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Very nice find!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks you two!


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## Syriiven

-stalker post-

Hi~


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## MattsBettas

Lol hi!


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## Syriiven

Saw your girl last page, quite a find =D


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## royal

Nice female


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## MattsBettas

Thanks! She was a great mom to, and can you believe that those few rips are the only damage ares did?


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## royal

No, honestly I cannot! But then again, I have also been extremely lucky with my new sorority (no damage as of yet) Yay!


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## Syriiven

Looks like it turned out really well! When the youngins are grown, I might be interested in one if any develop mom's yellow fins so long as there's a few - i understand yellow is hard to get. In a few months not sure if I'll want a boy or girl, but excited to see how they develop!


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## MattsBettas

I bet you're excited to breed royal!

Edit: Sy, in theory none should get yellow fins but I will pursue f2 and that's when yellow should pop up. Genetics aren't as predictable and set in stone as we would like to think though.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Ares must be a very gentle lover, all my spawn attempts my girls have come out with large chunks of fins missing, scales gone, and my ct girl got a scrape above her eye. You are very lucky to have an experienced breeder for your first spawn! I think the reason my spawns are failing is so I can learn and I pk think someone must know I will not give up! Lol.
Can't wait for my new females! Snails are coming soon too! CJ will be sending the package this week for sure!


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## MattsBettas

*Another pic!*









I love them. That pitcher is because I am adding water and need the temp to be exactly the same. Ignore the dirty bottom. I'm to nervous to siphon lol.

And Shae, you are welcome to borrow Jess if you want. I don't know if you have the right boy though. She needs a few weeks to recover first, of course.


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## BeautifulBetta123

I don't have an boys but I must say, our Pet smart has some half decent dragon scale halfmoons so I will keep my eyes out!


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## trilobite

Cute! How do you manage to take good pics of the fry, mine come out as blurred spots lol


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## belleangel33

Im with u the 1st 3 Weeks I hate to siphon because I always suck one up no matter how hard u tr not to.


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## MattsBettas

Erm, I pulled out my iPad and hoped that it would focus. No skill what so ever and a pretty crappy camera as well lol.


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## MattsBettas

Fry are growing well. I can make out mouths, pectoral fins, and, I think I can see tails lol!


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## MattsBettas

My lizard. She loves being handled! Extremely docile and friendly. Her name is liz, she is 12-13 years old, and she is a leopard gecko. Will get better pics eventually but until technology decides to cooperate, ipad pics it is.


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## MattsBettas

And the daily fry shot-









One week old as of today!


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## royal

Wow, congrats!


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## MattsBettas

Fun day today. Went for the first bike ride of the year, the lizard at school layed her eggs (finally), and I got home and took care of the fry which are doing very well and becoming more and more active by the day. Found and removed a dead one, but that's one out of 150-200 and in eight days which I wouldn't say is to bad.


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## royal

That's great!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Lizards are cool I just know nothing about them.
Glad the fry are doing good! Sounds like we can meet Saturday.


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## logisticsguy

Matt that is a great survival rate good job. Your Liz is so cute!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks guys! Yea leopard geckos are by far my favorite. Great, easy, fun pets... And the fry. Oh my those fry (like my rhyming XD). There are so many! Was prepared for this but not counting on it. As hard as it will be for me a few might have to go to trusted pet stores...


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## MattsBettas

My bettas had babies, the one ghost shrimp had her babies, my crayfish is berried, and the lizard at school who I take care of layed her eggs and the frogs at school layed their eggs. Gah. Spring is here. 

Receiving a package form logisticsguy today!


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## royal

Awesome! I got my package from him wednesday.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Did you get the package yet??


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## MattsBettas

Nope :/


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## BeautifulBetta123

Oh well.


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## MattsBettas

They better come! 

The heaters that I ordered (two 75w and a 300w) have really good reviews and I got all three for 40$! A steal IMO! The only thing is that they won't be here for a week... Oh well. My fish will survive, I'll float them in a warm tank.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Your tank is going to be awesome! Wow big heaters lol, the biggest I have running is a 150 watt lol. I got a cute pic of you fry Matt that I thought I would share.
He is very stunning. Will be easy to find him a home if you can't take him.


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## MattsBettas

Awwww he's so cute. I can't take him until the dt fry get out. Ugh I am so mad my ee "girl" switched genders on me.


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## BeautifulBetta123

No package, hey? It will probably be stick over the weekend. Do you have a tracking number? Could you go pick it up?


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## logisticsguy

I will get tracking number as soon as Im home.


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## MattsBettas

I don't have the number and no package... Ugh.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah it is definitely stuck some place, they usually deliver it in like the middle of the day, no way at 8:35 oh well.


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## BeautifulBetta123

I just really hope they are all okay! Poor Micro might not be liking this... Might bug my dad into taking me to Big Al's any ways... This really sucks.


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## MattsBettas

Let me know if you do and I will try to meet ou! First dibs on the tanks!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Hahaha no way! I want the tanks!! Lol. I have no money to spend though... I guess the tanks are yours D:
My dad said maybe... So I guess we will see what happens... This really sucke! The poor fish! And snails! Stuck in the mail!!


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## MattsBettas

I know. They are tough fish but that doesn't stop me from worrying...


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## logisticsguy

ok here is the tracking number 0248 8190 0122 6870


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## MattsBettas

Went on a michael's run and picked up a hurricane lamp, some fish safe greenery, and craft mesh for 15$! Yay!









And the petco fish that I bought in March came today, safe and sound. Thank God! I've been worrying all April. My Gramma did a great job. Pics to come. 

I also met up with Shae (BeautifulBetta123) this afternoon, to get her her snails. It was fun and we talked a lot about fish and stared at the beautiful fishies (and inverts XD) that we could either not afford or find room for.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah it was fun  
I just got home, the snails are now sitting in a sandwich bag acclimatizing to the tank  they all get spinach and carrot slices tonight! Yay. They are pretty cool little guys. I will post pics on my thread soon.
Sad my dad didn't let me get that little marble ct girl she was cute I have a couple pics of her that I will post on the ones that got away thread. Great day! Thanks for the snails!
Thanks again! My mom loves the little ct girl so maybe if she is still there I can get her when I pick up the fish from you.
She really likes her... Really enjoyed talking to you.


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## BeautifulBetta123

By the way great deal! Going to make dividers with the mesh?


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## MattsBettas

Yup. And those little floaty thingies Sy makes. I made them by fusing the plastic together with my dads blowtorch lighter thing and it worked great. That ct girl was cute!


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah maybe my mom will let me get her.


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## MattsBettas

Prepare for pic spam!


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## MattsBettas




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## MattsBettas




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## MattsBettas

11 days.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay!! So glad they made it safe and they are sooo pretty! Yay!


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## MattsBettas

I know! I was so nervous. I'll pm you a funny story. You saw mine, now I demand pics of your snails! And did you see what I did in the "The ones that got away" thread?


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## BeautifulBetta123

Okay tell me this funny story XD 
I will post pics of my snails and I saw your announcement lol.


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## Syriiven

Those are sooo cute! Is that first male a PK?


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## MattsBettas

The first two are hmpks


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## Syriiven

Wow! We never see PK anything in our lfs in Lethbridge.


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## BeautifulBetta123

He bought these in the U.S.
I can't post pics of the snails tonight, sorry, tomorrow I promise!


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## dramaqueen

They're beautiful, Matt!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks all


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## royal

Wow nice finds!


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## BeautifulBetta123

How are your fish?


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## royal

Mine?


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## MattsBettas

I think she means me royal XD. All are good. Fry are growing.


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## royal

I thought so too, just wanted clarification. I'm glad that they're doing well btw!


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## Syriiven

Thats rlly good Matt. 

So curious question, how many dt's do you have from Mickey's spawn? Was it only 2?


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah Matt I am bored so I figured we could spam up your thread a bit chatting p


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## royal

Lol


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## MattsBettas

Only two are left  I got twelve ant they are the most sensitive things ever!


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## Syriiven

Ooo....I was really hoping I remembered wrong and one would be a girl. But if they're sensitive and there's only two, I don't think I'd ask for one.


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## BeautifulBetta123

He is keeping them both I think... I asked him the same thing.


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## Syriiven

Yea, I think that's also a healthy move on their part if they're sensitive =O


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## MattsBettas

And I've done so freakin much for them XD


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## Syriiven

=) Are you going to breed them or do you think they might not survive that?


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## MattsBettas

They are toughening up as they grow, so they would probably survive breeding. Neither have great form though.


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## Syriiven

Can you share pics? =O I dont think I've seen any shots of them since they were at Sena's.


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## MattsBettas

I'll try. I was so sick yesterday that I had to drag myself into bed and skip water change day but I feel a bit better now.


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## Syriiven

Aww, being sick really isnt any fun. Hope you keep feeling better.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Hope you feel better soon!


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## MattsBettas

I'm feeling a bit better today. More importantly the fish and fry are all fine despite me not doing water changes. I'm going to do some tonight! Fry are two weeks old tomorrow and growing up fast. My heaters should be here Thursday. They are a bit later then I wanted but I got an amazing deal on them...


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## royal

Can you post pics? I really want to see the fry!


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## MattsBettas

I'm going to get pics up tonight. I feel a lot better now, I took yesterday off to rest. I just have a cough now. Heaters come today! I'm very excited for that! Then I just need to test them then I can get my three petco boys into their own tanks.


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## MattsBettas

I got all of my heaters today, I'm now in the process of testing and calibrating them. Tomorrow the tanks will be ready! My guppy jumped out of the temporary container and while I found her soon enough that she was still alive, she is having a lot of trouble right now. She spins, sinks, floats, flips, etc and she's bloated. I don't think she will make it through the night but I am praying for her. She is pregnant and is best friends with my other girl. I got saran over the container asap but I was to late sigh. I'm sick of fish deaths.


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## ao

oh no D:
i hope she pulls through 

I just found out today how extremely good at jumping my panda garra is. I had him floating in a solo cup, with the lid loosely on. I come back 5 minutes later and he's swimming with my betta . Boy was I glad I didn't put him on the table...


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## MattsBettas

Well, she passed. I'm not surprised though. I think what happened is that one or more internal organs were damaged from the jump. That would explain the bloating. Sip nameless guppy.


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## ao

Sip~


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## MattsBettas

Well, I got the heaters in and set up so now all of my petco boys have tanks! They have been through so much. My grandparents are amazing and took care of them for a couple of weeks in California after I bought them there while on vacation, then they took them along for the three day trip home. All three were in great shape. Now they have real, heated tanks to call home! Pics to come. Fry are doing well. I cleaned up an old aquaclear and got it running on Ares, Jackson's, and Xanthus's divided ten. Another cycle to do. Yay. Oh well, whatever makes them happy. Their heater got water inside of it somehow and I don't know what to do. I'm almost over this cold! Goodnight.


----------



## royal

That's good matt! Sip your lost guppy!


----------



## ao

great to hear! my grandparents are awesome too~ too bad I dont see them much 
I saw some really nice pet co bettas yesterday~ they're so hard to resist!


----------



## MattsBettas

All I'm saying I'd that I'm VERY lucky petco isn't in Canada.


----------



## ao

I saw a betta that totally reminded me of ur avatar pic:3
it's not a plakat, but something about the coloration and the spade tail...


----------



## MattsBettas

That guy is awesome! The guy in my avi isn't a spade, he has a good tail for a trad PK. He was just turning in the photo that that was based off lol.


----------



## ao

hahah i see! oops >.>
*noobness*


----------



## MattsBettas

No it's hard to tell from looking at art. I like him how he is but spades are really neat and hard to find!


----------



## ao

I know right? he was a super delta (or half moon) spade too!


----------



## MattsBettas

To bad I hit my limit at 15 (and way to many fry) lol.


----------



## ao

15? oh dear~ pardon me for not having read the rest of your journal >.> but, are you going to sell the little ones online?


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea. I want people to pick up if at all possible because our major shipping company here has failed us to many times but I can go through others, and if I want to get rid of them I pretty much have no choice but to ship some.


----------



## ao

i will have to stalk your posts for pics now XD


----------



## MattsBettas

*For Sena*

So, this is Jess. The first pic shows her colors nicely but makes her look lumpy and short bodied, which she is not. The second pic shows her form a bit better. She is terrible at getting her photos taken and she is afraid of the camera so excuse the stripes!


----------



## MattsBettas




----------



## Syriiven

<3 beautiful~


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks sy!


----------



## Sena Hansler

The fry should be interesting.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Jess is so pretty! How many fry do you have?


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't know. A lot? Lol I can't bother to count at this stage. 80-150 I would say.


----------



## MattsBettas

Water change day!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Here is pics of one of the hmpk girls!


----------



## MattsBettas

Beautiful. Tell me when you get prices, I am 100% interested.


----------



## MattsBettas

I made a poll!!! 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=1921394#post1921394


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I voted on your poll!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Yay! Thanks Shae! Did you get prices yet?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

No I sent him another message though, I don't want to pick though... I will let you know as soon as I find out!


----------



## MattsBettas

Ok thanks. That girl is amazing and she has really good form to correct the not-so-perfect form of my petco hmpks.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Shame she is going to be MINE!!! Lol!
I really hope I can o to Greece my parents are discussing it right now.


----------



## MattsBettas

Im sure he has a sibling...

I hope you can go to Greece to. I've never been to Europe but plane rides are fun, especially your first one! That would be a long ride though. There would be so much to see in Greece! What about babysitting more? Or dog walking?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I am collecting bottles doing yard work, and selling play dough to make money. My parents will pay for some of it too so that will help.
She has a sibling who is just as nice but she already so.d, his fish find homes super fast!
Greece would be amazing! It is a 13 day trip 2 are spent flying there and back though. We are in Athens and or 4 days we go on a cruise around the islands! It would be so much fun! I really want to go see the temples of the gods! 
I will keep you updated on whether or not I can go. I will also let you know how that plant you gave me is doing


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

So the plant you have me is doing good! Lol.
Here wus a pic of one of the black hmpk girls.
They are not perfect, so he said you may be disappointed with what you get, great finnage though so they cost $25


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Sorry here is the pic


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Why is that I feel like I am talking to myself on this thread? Don't make me spam you with snail pics!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Snail spam!
Where are you anyways?? Eating I guess???


----------



## logisticsguy

How long does it take to get them to breed? Do they have a lot of eggs? They look terrific. Im going to call the snail guy and get some too. he only lives 5 minutes away.


----------



## MattsBettas

Whoops sorry I missed all the posts! 25$ is really steep for a female... But I really want her. How much are the yellows? The snails are great to.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

He said all his fish are between $25 and $50 but high quality but sooo expensive!
5 minutes! That is awesome! Beware when they get big do not leave them in a tank with a sick fish that is laying on the bottom, the snail guy, Pat said his snails ate a fish a ll that was left was the bones!
Don't get too many snails CJ because I still need buyers! Lol.
Snail breeding... Pain in the ass! Because they can breed yet hold onto fertilized eggs for months! Plus then the eggs take a while to hatch. These snails are still to young I think. They are 4-6 months I think he said. He also has several new clutches of eggs!
Yay snails!


----------



## Sena Hansler

EliteBettas... you pay for what you get...Top quality for the top dollar.


----------



## MattsBettas

They have great form and great color... Overall amazing fish. It's just a lot of money. I could afford ONE and depending on shipping I don't know if that would be worth it. That being said, if I can split shipping with Shea then it might not be bad and a well-formed fertile black hmpk is the ideal mate for my black PK. 

In other news, brine shrimp suck. A lot.


----------



## Syriiven

If you guys do decide to split shipping, let me know. He has some great looking fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ooh! Today is the fry's three week birthday! In a few weeks we should have color!


----------



## Syriiven

Woot!


----------



## trilobite

Yay happy third week birthday fry! Cant wait to see them when they start colouring up :-D


----------



## MattsBettas

Three weeks- Tails on all of them and eyes and such are developing! Now they at least resemble fish XD! Yea yea, I know the bottom is dirty. I'm to scared to siphon at this point and they get daily water changes now to keep things healthy.


----------



## MattsBettas




----------



## BeautifulBetta123

So cute! There is so many! I wish I could succeed at a spawn!


----------



## MattsBettas

You will eventually :-D


----------



## Sena Hansler

I agree with Sy, if you guys want to buy them... Split shipping with a few peopl and it becomes a heck of a lot cheaper. Depending if I can find a place that allows fish (ugh...) after my trip, I will be getting back into it.


----------



## MattsBettas

That's probably what we would do. Sena you definatly deserve to get back into it!


----------



## Sena Hansler

IF a place allows fish. Most won't.


----------



## MattsBettas

Could you have a talk with the manager?


----------



## MattsBettas

Went to feed the sorority and found my white PK girl dead. It looks like she had dropsy that progressed very rapidly. Praying that my other girls are fine... 

Sip little white nameless girl. You were a real sweetheart. At least you went quickly.


----------



## Syriiven

Aw, I'm real sorry Matt D=


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks. It was really unexpected and sad.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I swear I posted... So sorry for your girl! May she swim in peace.


----------



## Sena Hansler

It won't matter. If a place to rent says no, they mean no. Because of the chance of water damage they snub tanks (unless you want ONE tank under 2 gallons) -.- So, I am trying. Right now just trying to find people who aren't whiny about a bloody caged silent non-fur animal (Jim). Most won't accept my could-be roomie's 19 year old cat...

Sorry your betta died, btw.


----------



## MattsBettas

Why would a landlord care about reptiles... They are cleaner then pretty much any other pet. They are silent, and do not smell at all. I really hope you can find a place where you can keep fish though!


----------



## MattsBettas

The fry are doing well and growing everyday. Their anal fins are starting to come in now. I am addicted to watching them, especially at feeding time! 

I am seriously considering purchasing this shelving unit to hold my tanks- http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...+Steel+Shelving+Unit.jsp?locale=en#product_aa 
Thoughts?


----------



## Sena Hansler

Those ones are not too bad... But like most freestand backgree shelving units if bolted to the wall they are more sturdy... But they would work anyways. Our canadian tire actually used them (for plants and such)


----------



## MattsBettas

Hmm... Yea I think they would work but another member on here pointed out that the shelves are particle board and that I would need to seal it (particle board swells if it gets wet). Probably not a huge issue and they are on sale to. 

I think I've decided that hmpks are my favorite. I love how they are so active, compact, and more resistant to disease.


----------



## Mahsfish

How old are the fry now? I'd live to see some pics.


----------



## Mahsfish

Oh never mind. Just say the pics


----------



## Mahsfish

Yes same Matt. I'm going to go the hmpk route once I get more stock. 

But would it be possible to get some clear shots of mom and dad of your spawn. I've just seen the one pic of mom when she was "unphotogenic"


----------



## MattsBettas

Sorry Mah but those are the best pics of her you're gonna get.


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay do you have any of dad


----------



## MattsBettas

Storm coming?


----------



## Mahsfish

Big reds got one going aswell.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Hope not!


----------



## Syriiven

Nuthin but sunshine down here! xD 

I only have one consecutive nester at the moment, Ryuu, but every week I end up ruining it and he flares at me xP


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't even have a consecutive nester, but there is flow in most of my tanks. Water changes must be done, sy!


----------



## Syriiven

Oh 
I wont stop doing the changes =) I'd rather them healthy, despite how proud I am of their nests


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Sunshine here too! No wind and it is 31 outside right now! Still snow though!


----------



## Syriiven

How is there snow if its 31 C?


----------



## MattsBettas

Still snow!?! It's all gone here. It's like 30 something degrees (Celsius for any Americans reading this XD) outside and I love it, but I'm hoping my field is in the shade tonight...


----------



## Syriiven

It's 24 C here, nice and comfy. Not too hot, certainly not cold. Big difference from -5 last week xD


----------



## Mahsfish

Yes it was 30c in Calgary today. Only sunshine. But it's supposed to cool down to 14 tomorrow


----------



## MattsBettas

24 is perfect. And I know you will do enough water changes lol. That's not what I meant!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Snow hasn't melted yet  lol. It is crazy XD


----------



## Syriiven

Yea, sposed to be back at 14, but that's still comfy compared to 0 and under. I wont mind rain either. Just no more snow. Sooo done with snow.


----------



## MattsBettas

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


----------



## Syriiven

rofls


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

No more snow!!


----------



## MattsBettas

I swear I will cry if it snows again.


----------



## Syriiven

A definite case of the forlorns, I would have.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Ame here! Lol.


----------



## royal

Snow snow go away never come back or I'll move away!


----------



## royal

Jk, I don't think that I could leave canada ever. I love it too much!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Pic spam! More pics from elite bettas!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

And more!


----------



## MattsBettas

Stop it! STOP IT! Lol. 

Are they hmpk?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

First one is a dt second one is a hmpk I believe


----------



## Mahsfish

Would you like me to contribute? I can help pic spam as well.


----------



## Mahsfish

Here's one


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

That's an old one... But very pretty!


----------



## MattsBettas

Mah would you be interested in a group buy? No guarantees yet...


----------



## Mahsfish

Group buy for????


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

A group buy from elite bettas, split shipping costs. Me, Matt, and maybe Syriiven are in on it.


----------



## Mahsfish

Ok. Well I am in Calgary so it would be tough unless I come to pickup in Edmonton correct?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

We would figure something out.


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay. I'd be interested in it. Just gotta check with my parents. It would be a good opportunity to get some high quality fish. Plus I've been in touch almost everyday with elite aswell


----------



## MattsBettas

Yes it's easy to work things out... I will be down there a few times in the next few months.


----------



## Mahsfish

Alright just let me know the details when you guys decide an I will check with my parents. What where you guys interested in? Hmpk correct? And reds or yellows or what?


----------



## MattsBettas

Hmpk. The yellow and fertile black are called for by us but we haven't ordered!


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay. Yeah I trust that you won't order without confirming everything. Just curious. I will also check with elite to see their fish aswell.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Matt did you want just one fertile black hmpk female or a pair?


----------



## MattsBettas

We won't. I absolutely love his fish!

Shea I would probably buy a female because the pair would be what, fifty bucks?!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I will ask for you


----------



## Mahsfish

Elite said he's got his red and coppers for sale.


----------



## MattsBettas

Four weeks-







A couple of them are beginning to get a faint blue tinge around their stomach! Anals and dorsals are now clearly visible.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! That is awesome! They are so cute and there is so many!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks! I can't wait for them to get a bit bigger and more colorful!


----------



## Sena Hansler

Am I not a part of the group buy? :/


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Hmmmm.... I am not sure.....
Of course! Lol! If you want you are always welcome. He says all his fish he has right now are reserved, and have been since before the spawn. He will have more available in October.


----------



## MattsBettas

Sena of course you can! You are always welcome!


----------



## MattsBettas

Xanthus just passed... I am frustrated and sad right now, it seems like I am battling a mysterious, fast moving disease that causes the fish to become lethargic, then, the next day, dropsy and die. I created a thread in the emergencies/disease section. When this happened to my female I waved it off as a random event but now that pretty much the same thing happened to another one of my fish, I don't think it is coincidental. I don't know what to do and am deathly afraid that I will lose another since at least eight other fish have been exposed to a fish that died of this. Sip Xanthus, you were a beautiful, fun fish who was full of personality.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Aww, so sorry sip Xanthus, sterilize everything then do not mix water from his tank with any other water. Sorry this happened. Every one should be qt from everyone else, since you think it might be contagious.


----------



## MattsBettas

But the thing is that eight have already been exposed, and I don't have the tanks or the money to qt them all...


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Keep them in their own tanks but I would clean and sterilize everything, 100% wc. It is lots of work but if it saves everyone. Try not to use the same tools in all the tanks. Pain in the butt... Really sorry about Canthus.


----------



## MattsBettas

Well, I have been talking to a couple people about the possibility of mycobacterium... It's upsetting but I will do what I need to do...


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

It will be alright, we will get through this.


----------



## MattsBettas

Well now Jackson isn't looking to good. He looks like he got into a fight... He's also sulking and being sad. Hopefully he can hang in there until I can get the antibiotics tomorrow... I don't know what I will do if this is myco... Even if this isn't myco it is still really bad and I want it to go away. My dad has a friend who works in microbiology who may be able to do some tests if this continues so that I can actually diagnose it... Tomorrow is going to be a busy day for sure. I'm going to do lots of pictures of all of my fish (figure it out.), buy kanamycin, treat everyone (symptoms or not), and I will also be talking to a few more people hopefully. 

Thanks for the help and the support, Shae.


----------



## Sena Hansler

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=125895
TB meds is what you need to use apparently. Right now if it is TB you have to destroy all infected fish, break everything down and do the recommended cleanings in that thread. On top of that, live plants must be tossed.

How did they get sick? What new fish or new plant? This is a reason I never used the same net in the tanks I had... To avoid spreading unknown and fatal diseases.


----------



## Sena Hansler

**** use jars to quarantine. Clean daily.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

And you MUST wear gloves when working with your fish from now on!


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't even know if it is myco yet... I don't want to make that assumption and unnecessarily euthanize a ton of fish. Besides, if it is myco, I will probably let them live it out and when they get ill (go lethargic and start bloating) put them down. I haven't introduced anything new for a while except for my petco fish but they are in qt so that's not it. At is point it could just be a bacterial infection which still sucks but isn't nearly as bad as myco. 

Today I'm going out and buying clove oil, rubber gloves, and kanaplex. WTH.


----------



## Syriiven

I'm sure you'll be able to save them Matt. I'm sorry for your losses...but you're acting fast. Just gotta keep positive and do your best.


----------



## Syriiven

If you like I can do some digital arts for the ones you've lost, to remember them by. Can even send you the prints, free of charge.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks sy. I think I will take you up on that offer if I lose any more.


----------



## Syriiven

Also, and I understand how very frightening this is right now, after everything's been said and done and you've done what you need to do, remember to take a moment aside for yourself to recharge. You're no help to your fish if you're stressed beyond belief and making yourself sick in the process. We're here for you, just like you've been there for us.

I'd be happy to =) But I hope it doesnt come to anymore dying.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks for the support. Being part of this forum makes this a lot easier for quite a few reasons. If this does end up being myco then everyone will eventually pass, but with a bit of luck I will be able to save Ares and Jess's line. I am going to let everyone live but when they get start to bloat, the clove oil comes out.


----------



## Syriiven

I think it's a bit soon to jump to conclusions. There's a lot of other things it can be, lots of thing that cause lethargy and bloat. I know that doesnt make it any easier to deal with, but it's a hope that it's something treatable.


----------



## MattsBettas

Myco or not I still have a fast moving disease in more then one tank which bothers me... In this case it's best to hope for the best but be prepared for the worst, since if it is myco I could be at risk.


----------



## Syriiven

I know it does, it would bug anyone who cares for their fish =) But you're doing what you can, so take heart in that. You're not sitting by and letting it happen, you're fighting it with them.


----------



## LittleBlueFishlets

At this point, I am not thinking myco. It could be another bacterial - or parasitical infection.

I'd go the Kanaplex route first (bacterial). Then try something like API General Cure (parasitical). Actually, I wonder if you can use them simultaneously. (I'll look into this.) If those don't work, I'd look for oxytetracycline and/or Romet.

Edited to add: Yes, it looks like you can use Kanaplex and General Cure simultaneously. I would go ahead and do that. This will give you a good antibacterial and antiparasitical combination. I found multiple websites saying that it was OK to combine the two meds.

(This web site said you can even combine Kanaplex, General Cure and Furan 2. They said the combination of all three was previously available in a single product, but that company went out of business.)


----------



## MattsBettas

THERE SHOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS DISEASE. 

I'm not even kidding!


----------



## Sena Hansler

But there is. As tragic as it is, it's life. We face obstacles every day in everything that we do. There will be things that'll tear us down and take us for all we are worth, but in the end it's up to us to get back up.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Sucks that something like this has cropped up. Seems like when things go wrong with fish it doesn't rain, it absolutely pours. 

Hopefully you can get it under control. I'd probably be utterly destroyed and leave the hobby entirely if I had to cull all my stock. I think if it is myco, letting your fish live out the rest of their lives is fine. As long as you are careful to wear gloves when doing maintenance on their tanks and aren't selling diseased stock, I don't see an issue with not culling.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you guys. This really sucks but, well, @&$% happens I guess. I'm hoping my spawn was not exposed to this... I can't really see how they could have been but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Jackson appears to be in the first stages of dropsy and will be euthanized today or tomorrow.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Ahhh, I am so sorry Matt... Anyone else seem affected?


----------



## MattsBettas

No one else seems effected yet... For all I know they could all have it and it could just be incubating since whatever this is only shows symptoms for two days.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Sounds extremely nasty whatever it is. I was so dispirited when velvet went through all my tanks and I lost/had to cull several fish. 

I hope for your sake, your spawn is okay.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I am praying your spawn is okay! All your fish are sooo stunning. Very sorry about Jackson...


----------



## MattsBettas

I just went to pick up clove oil but I will wait until I can guarantee that it is dropsy.


----------



## Syriiven

Sorry Jackson's gotten ill =(


----------



## Fenghuang

I'm sorry to hear about your fish, Matt. It is very disheartening how this can happen to the people who do all the right things.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks feng. I agree, it kind of annoys me how someone can keep a betta in an unheated vase with a water change once every two weeks alive for seven years but no matter how hard I try to keep them happy THIS happens. 

Whatcha going to do, I guess.


----------



## Fenghuang

There's really no justice in it. At all. 

I hope the rest of your guys and/or gals pull through.


----------



## MattsBettas

Well, I thought I would share a few updates...

Jackson's dropsy has been progressing slowly throughout the evening. Pineconing is just beginning. Kanaplex quickly took care of the fuzzy spots and has dramatically slowed down his fin rot. Regardless, because of his internal issues, I am 99% sure I will have to put him down tomorrow for his sake. 

My fry... Well, since I've been so caught up in this disease and absolutely obsessive about spreading it, I have not done a water change in four days. Growth is slow but they are fine.

I'm ridiculously worried and depressed at the thought of losing all of my fish to this disease. If that happens, I will probably not buy from a petstore again and start fresh with aquabid fish. I would have to toss pretty much everything but the glass tanks, and even those will have to be sanitized with harsh chemicals. AND, if that's not enough, the 33g npt sorority would have to be put off because of everything that would need replacing. 

Lets hope that doesn't happen.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Hat is so sad 
I hope worse doesn't come to worse and you need to buy all new fish... That would be horrible. Feel so sorry for you...


----------



## Syriiven

Same here, hope it doesnt get that bad. For your fry tank maybe buy new stuff just for it to keep it separated from everybody else? Like whatever buckets and hoses you use, turkey baster or nets sort of deal.


----------



## MattsBettas

Jackson was put down tonight via clove oil (it was the most peaceful, quick fish death I have ever seen. If you need to euthanize, that's the stuff.). He was ready to go. A necropsy will be done tomorrow.


----------



## Syriiven

I'm sorry Matt. 'M sure he's feeling much better under the rainbow bridge and realizes you did your best.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks sy... I don't feel bad at all since really, it was out of kindness. I am dreading doing the dissection tomorrow but it could potentially be a life saver for the rest of my fish.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

So sorry Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks.








SIP little guy.


----------



## logisticsguy

SIP. Beautiful fish. Sorry to see you go through this Matt.


----------



## LittleBlueFishlets

Aw, I'm sorry. He was a beautiful little guy. 

SIP Jackson. :-(


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks, you two. 

I've been talking with Sakura (what am amazing person) and she has basically been guiding me through the procedure of a necropsy... It will be done tomorrow thanks to my awesome science teacher who will let me use a microscope at lunch. It's not a replacement to a professional lab test but with any luck it will give me a hint as to what I am fighting.


----------



## Sena Hansler

That'd be cool to see, to be honest. Be able to break it down with a microscope.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, I guess. Still not my idea of fun but maybe it will help.


----------



## MattsBettas

Catching up on water changes. And, I found the perfect girl for my blue grizzle hmpk. And by that I meant hat they would make the absolute perfect pair, no word of a lie. Their babies would have great color AND finnage!

The girl-








To bad it would cost me so much. *Goes to message a couple people about a group buy*


----------



## MattsBettas

Who I would breed her to-


----------



## Syriiven

Wow, hope you get her Matt!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I haven't got a message yet! Lol. I have room and money right now so you might want to get me in on this! She is gorgeous and such a perfect march!


----------



## MattsBettas

Do you want to do this, Shea? I'm in if you are...


----------



## dramaqueen

That's a cool idea, you guys. Good luck!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Who else? I need to check out that breeders stock, see if there is anthing reasonably priced tat I like. We will see...


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't know, mah or CJ may be interested... I really want that girl.


----------



## Syriiven

I'd love to help guys, but I think I've hit my limit (what with Mana, Chibi, Simi and this dragonscale who hopefully arrives alive...) 

Really hope it works out!


----------



## MattsBettas

Great... catw0man bid on the girl I want lol.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

That good or bad?


----------



## MattsBettas

That's bad! At least she can go to a good home though.


----------



## MattsBettas

Nevermind! Look! http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=47228

Seriously... What a generous person.


----------



## Syriiven

Yay! Grats Matt!


----------



## logisticsguy

That is terrific Matt. catOwoman is so awesome!


----------



## MattsBettas

Isn't she? That was a unexpected, wonderful surprise. CJ, she is looking to rehome a few hm males... If you are interested then they can all go in one shipment.


----------



## logisticsguy

Oh Im in for sure. She has a keen for for betta beauty. I could make room for more as a few of mine have been rehomed lately and the garage is ready now for my betta invasion. Good idea.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Me!Me!Me! Can I be in on this??? Hello?? Am I still a living breathing human being? Who really would love another nice male!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Of course! I wouldn't leave you out lol. Let me work things out and I will talk to you all when she gets pics of them...


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Okay!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Sooo... Who is in on this?


----------



## MattsBettas

Also: Sena, if you are interested, you are more then welcome in as well. Didn't want to leave you out.


----------



## Sena Hansler

Who's the breeder of choice?


----------



## MattsBettas

Tmt. That's not set in stone though, but he has beautiful fish at nice prices. catw0man has some to rehome, just pay shipping.


----------



## MattsBettas

My dt has decided to take up tail biting. Wonderful.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Oh dear, that is not good, not good at all.


----------



## MattsBettas

Meh, there are plenty of things that are worse. Just sucks cause he was one of my nicest looking.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah I agree, check my journal thread!


----------



## logisticsguy

Well Superman was fully bloated, fully pineconed and just passed away in a med dip. I really tried best I could to save him. Going to bury him next to Binky. This happened extremely fast. He was a character and my first imported fish. He was past his prime but still feisty and loved to show off for the ladies. He was the old man fish here and is going to be missed.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Aww, sorry to hear that. sip Superman


----------



## MattsBettas

So sorry for your loss. At least it was quick and he has lots of awesome offspring.


----------



## Syriiven

D= Omgosh, wow....So sorry CJ


----------



## logisticsguy

Thanks guys. Superman had offspring go all over North America. For some reason the fish I care about the most are the ones I lose. He always put on a show for the girls and had a pretty good life with me I hope. Going to celebrate his life and Sy thanks so much for the Superman you made it means so much right now.


----------



## Syriiven

I'm really glad, though I never intended it to be a memorial. Still, I'm glad it helps.


----------



## royal

I'm so sorry for both of your loses! On the upside lg, superman coloring lives on with sweetie pie. They look so much alike it's crazy! I'll post a pic in a sec.


----------



## royal

Here is a crappy tablet pic


----------



## MattsBettas

Just had a girl in qt die on me. She appeared to be healthy for two weeks and was healthy this morning, but when I came home she was bloated, pineconed, and had a white belly. 

*This is why you must always quarentine any new fish.*


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm really frustrated right now. Sigh. I have had four fish die within a month (three in the last two weeks), the shelves I wanted to get so desperately are now not half price (I couldn't get them), my fry REFUSE TO GROW (CJ posted pictures of his two week olds and they had color. Mine are six weeks old and should be ready to be jarred... But they are less then half a cm long and colorless. Oh my God.). The lights on my sorority burnt out, my worm cultures crashed (but are now coming back). So yea. I love this hobby but not right now. 

End rant. Needed to get that out.


----------



## Syriiven

>.< Well, the world generally rolls to the Gambler's Ruin, based on the theory luck comes in groups, so...it can only get better at some point after all the bad.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks sy. I know things will have to pick up at one time or another. 

And it's not like this is the end of the world, really just a bunch of small issues.


----------



## Syriiven

Yea, but small issues clumped together make a big mess, and I'm very familiar with that kind of stress. So I know how you feel - but things will get better.


----------



## logisticsguy

Things will get better Matt. I know how you feel though. Im having a tough run myself and this is the best hobby, but perhaps the most frustrating hobby ever. My last spawn didn't get much color until weeks 6-7 other than a few and growth in weeks 6-12 is the peak time so don't worry much your not off track.


----------



## Sena Hansler

For the fry not growing.. How many, and how big of tank... Plus how much of what do you feed them, and how often is the water cleaned.


----------



## MattsBettas

1) 40ish
2)10g
3)Microworms, banana worms, bbs, and I have added decaps before water changes on the off chance they would start to accept it.
4)Every second day... Third if I am busy. 50% with siphon

I don't think I am really doing anything wrong, but they just won't grow. I have read reports or dragons/metallics taking longer but I don't know... It should certainly not take this long.


----------



## Sena Hansler

The water changes are the reason. Mine grew faster than yours, because I cleaned it every day. With 40 or so in a 10, they will take longer to grow because of the growth stunting hormone and ammonia build up from the foods, and the fish's waste. Every day would be best - even twice a day to get them to literally double in size.


----------



## logisticsguy

What Sena said is 100% correct. The amount of water exchange for optimum growth is ridiculous.


----------



## Sena Hansler

Plus comparing to some of logisticsguy's fry is unfair ;p he basically fast grows his!!


----------



## logisticsguy

It true. I do.  There is some interesting information a lot more detailed and well explained answers about this here at betty splendens.

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1769

and in this thread with comments from OFL and Aquastar. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=64025


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks for your help, Sena and CJ.

Well guess what I'm doing tomorrow. Lol.


----------



## logisticsguy

One thing I try not do to Matt is *gut stuff* the fry. Doing that can cause damage or kill a fish. It also can slow the fish ability to process food. 

You can feed till the tummy is a lil round and that is plenty.


----------



## royal

Just keep being positive, and it'll all work out!


----------



## logisticsguy

I am just sick. My Giant girl seemed fine this morning and when I went to feed her just now... she is dead. Searching for answers. It seems that the period after a spawn attempt can be lethal if you are one of my breeders. Maybe now im just realizing the stress breeding puts on a fish. 2 sudden deaths in one week has me very concerned and confused. I don't even get a chance to try meds or anything. Just totally demoralized right now.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

See that is why I got out of splendens. I had too many sudden and unexpected deaths that I could not find any possible reasons for. Too much heartbreak for me to handle.


----------



## MattsBettas

That's awful, CJ. It was probably just stress from a couple factors, (adjusting to your water and breeding), and there was nothing yo could have done. What symptoms was she showing when you found her body?


----------



## logisticsguy

There was no bloating or pine coning on the body. Her head was very grey. Now Im paranoid and going over every fish and taking notes. If you don't look 100% your off to the doctor lil fish. I am just not used to sudden death with these fish and trying to figure out why and turn into a learning experience from it if I can.

Im finding that the Giant boy has terrible eyesight which now explains the mess at spawn time and why food has to be right in front of him or he misses it. Always a disaster in his tank and now I know why. Dude needs glasses real bad.


----------



## logisticsguy

After doing more research on Giant betta I may have under estimated the space they require for healthy living. It is recommended that they have a 30 inch aquarium. My Giant boy is in a 10g that isn't nearly large enough it appears. The Giant girl who died was in a 3g hospital tank that I thought was ok but may have been way too small. It is also recommended that they be on pristine water source like RO and have very frequent water changes. With my less than perfect water here and small tanks I set myself up for failure with my Giant pair. Ugg I gotta get myself an RO if I want to continue in this hobby without going nuts. At least now I have an idea where I went wrong.


----------



## MattsBettas

30" is huge! I've always seen 10g quoted as the appropriate size for them but I have not researched them in depth. Good luck.

I know it's going to rain when my boys start nesting, and sure enough it is pouring right now.


----------



## Mahsfish

Still feeling bad for us CJ. At least you know what could have cause it now. And for an update on my cello boy Peanut, he is starting to marble and has a brown grizzlies coming on his body

And Matt any update on the fry? Pics? How are they doing?


----------



## Mahsfish

Oh yeah and if y'all calgarians didn't hear, the was a pressure cooker, or a mini bomb planted at the Brentwood LRT station. LRT go shutdown to day and tons of traffic. Thank fully no body got hurt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Fry aren't growing and I have lost a ton... With no explanation. Might be whatever disease I have. Idk.

Edit- Im in Edmonton but I still feel for you guys, that's scary stuff.


----------



## MattsBettas

As you know, my DT has picked up tailbiting. I turned down the filter and its starting to improve, bettas heal fairly quickly in the correct conditions. In his endless marbling he is starting to pick up a bit of red and more white, but he is still predominantly blue. This little guy also does this thing, he is in a chi so there is a grassy artificial plant in the middle... He has this little spot where he squeezes in and hides. I have trained him so that when I tap the glass he comes out, he pokes his head out, looks around, and then swims away. It is adorable.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

How are the dt fry you got from Sena?


----------



## MattsBettas

Alive... Haven't grown but are alive lol.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I am sorry Matt, you tried your best, they would have died overnight with me lol. You did a great job of caring for them.


----------



## MattsBettas

No lol look, I edited it! I thought you were talking about my other fry. Not all of them are dead but I have 10 ish left.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

What? I was talking about the dt fry from Sena, the ones that were weak and you had two left? Remember?


----------



## MattsBettas

Yes lol I think we both are majority confused. The dt fry are fine but not growing well. I was talking about my fry that were dying, before I edited it.

What fish are you liking from catw0man's album?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

This guy almost for sure is on my list.


----------



## MattsBettas

No I meant from her "rehoming" journal. But gosh that guy is amazing.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Yeah this guy is from her rehoming journal. The original sellers pics though.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ah yes I see you reserved him... Good choice! He is beautiful. Catw0man says he refuses to eat pellets though.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Okay never mind, really looking for breeding quality fish, this guy is with out a doubt beautiful but colour wise he is not a good breeder.


----------



## MattsBettas

Why not? I think his color is really good...


----------



## Mahsfish

Matt his colours are just a mish mash. No real definition. And a lot of irids. Also looks like it has a cellophane marble base and breeding marbles is too unpredictable if you are looking to produce show quality


----------



## MattsBettas

Well I overall had a good day today but I think my ee has a tumor... Right above his eye. It is growing slow and it could be in a worse place, but still... Tumors suck. You get to watch them slowly kill a fish, and they are becoming more common, sadly. I have noticed that they are especially prevalent in ee, I wonder why. Probably some genetic fault that goes along with the gene for ee. 

Mah, his colors are fine... The iridescence is the only fault. You can't assume a fish is marble unless it is showing telltale marbling (which this fish is not), and even so, marbles can be shown in the "multi" class.


----------



## logisticsguy

Matt is correct. It may well be marbles could be more difficult to work with because of its random nature but each spawn should produce solids butterflys ect that can be shown in main class as well. If you look at aquabid many breeders are using marbles to enhance the lines look. If a breeder breeds into marbles and the only ever want solids in the spawn it would be a bad idea because it would be hard to impossible to breed marbles completely out of a line and would keep popping up in spawns to a lesser extent each generation. Besides show breeding is only one part of breeding these fish. Its good to keep the current ibc standard in mind whenever breeding but personal goals can be different for everyone. Playing with a wide genetic pool can be fun and narrow pool line breeding can produce results as well.


----------



## Mahsfish

I totally agree with the both of you. But some breeders just prefer not getting into marbles I guess. Bing in Canada and they're are rarely any shows I find it find to breed marbles as I won't be entering any shows anytime soon. Still good to hold ibc standards though


----------



## Mahsfish

Speaking of marbling did I mention at all that Peanut is marbling?

I think I did, just bad memory. but he does have browny yellow grizzle coming in. sadly his fins haven't grown much because hes still in a jar and I havent made room in a bigger tank for him. Also I only do water changes 1-2 times per week so that doesn't help. Though maybe there was some hmpk earlier in the ancestors and hes got hmpk pheno type but doubt this is the case.


----------



## MattsBettas

How big is the jar? How warm is it/ how do you heat it?


----------



## Mahsfish

jar is 1 gal. Sits in a tub with the other betta jars with heated water around the jars. Should be around 76-78. Not the ideal conditions. 

I also might have to sacrifice my 10 gal to some pink and black convict fry to make space for a blue gene jack Dempsey pair coming if I can sell the fry and cons fast enough. Puttin 2 more bettas into jars.If anyone is interested in cons please do contact me, fry and breeding pair fs. 

Once the cons are gone I will be able to get Peanut into his own 5 gal to hopefully let himg row to his full potential


----------



## logisticsguy

The key to keeping betta in a 1g jar is sanitation. Its good you have it heated and that temp is just fine. Try to turkey baster the waste off bottom every day, it only take 20 seconds per jar. Every week you need 2 x 100% water change. Be very careful the temp is close to the 76-78 they are used to. Add a sprig of hornwart to the jar and a chip of ial. Exercice a jarred fish everyday with 5 minutes of flaring with another fish. Its good for their body and mental health. And whenever possible upgrade to a 5g tank as bigger is better.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ah yea if you want him to grow definatly up water changes. Your conditions aren't bad but if I kept my fish in jars I would definatly be doing a wc every second day. Mine all have at least 2.5g to themselves and love it. 

I don't know a thing about cichlids. Some species are beautiful but I like bettas more XD

How many bettas do you have now?


----------



## Mahsfish

I currently have 6 bettas. 
3 HM boys
PK boy
HM girl
and my old VT girl
plus the fry


----------



## Mahsfish

Im also trying to sell my guppies so i have another 5 gal for my bettas.

My 55 is going to stay to my cichlids as its only use for bettas is a grow out and id preffer to use smaller tanks for grow outs like 30s or 20s


----------



## MattsBettas

Um, guys.... There are WORMS in my spawn tank. WTF. Does anyone know what these are and if they are dangerous?


----------



## Mahsfish

Could it be MW or anything you are feeding? I do not know what they are although for some reason i think i got those once. Cant remember what really happened though.

i would guess they are from what you are feeding but not forsure.


----------



## Mahsfish

Also Matt, how are the fry do you have pictures of the,? how big are they? and sorry how old are they again? My are going pretty slow i think. 

Being a busy High school student athlete my main problem is finding time to meet all odf their requirements, like time for WC in the bettas in the jars. That why I am only able to do 1-2 100% changes per week.

And I do use a turkey baster to suck up waste aswell.


----------



## MattsBettas

These are way bigger then mw and mw sinks and dies. 

Water changes are easy for me. Excluding the fry I do water changes every Thursday and Sunday, two days I have off.


----------



## Mahsfish

okay hard to tell from the pic, no idea.

also do you got pics of fry? Also i forgot how old they are. Hopefully they are doing good.


----------



## MattsBettas

Fry aren't growing... They look the same as in the last pic.


----------



## Mahsfish

That's unfortunate. Still probably bigger than mine. I only have about half that are good size but some are still extremely tiny. Hopefully both our spawns do well. How old are yours? Mine just reached 1 month yesterday.


----------



## MattsBettas

Almost two months...

Edit your post before a mod sees that.


----------



## Mahsfish

Oops, typo, meant to put bigger. Thanks for letting me know 

**edited**


----------



## Mahsfish

And yeah mine and your are both way behind on growth. My main issue and probably yours would be water quality. i don't siphon waste too much due to concern for fry.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Matt, I have the same worms in my planted tank, they haven't caused any harm and the bettas LOVE snacking in them, try scraping them off the sides of the spawn tank and feeding them to adult fish. They are I believe harmless.


----------



## MattsBettas

Seriously? Woo hoo for live food. Lol.


----------



## logisticsguy

Honestly no idea what that is Matt. Maybe post a thread Ive never seen those worms. Kinda yucky looking things.


----------



## logisticsguy

Oh good idea. Maybe we could culture whatever they are for adults.


----------



## MattsBettas

Um... Yea. They aren't exactly pleasant to look at. 

I suppose I could have them in all of my tanks and just never notice them because they are eaten.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Do you have live plants in your fry tank?


----------



## MattsBettas

No. They are beyond the point where they need them and they get in my way while siphoning.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I find they appear in tanks that have or had live plants in it. Anyways try feeding them to an adult fish!


----------



## MattsBettas

Water changes all done. I spilt about half my bottle of prime though. Great. Money down the drain. At least it was a small bottle! I've also started drafting plans for my shelves (thank you, Sy!). I don't know how I am going to make it work though... I have a bit of an awkward space and may just have a little bit less room then I need. Oh well. Sigh. This hobby can be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (did I make my point?) frustrating. Lol. I'm sure everyone here gets it! Also planning a few summer spawns. I can't spawn any more until August though, which sucks, but I will be kicking it into gear then and doing a couple spawns that I am really looking forward to.


----------



## MattsBettas




----------



## MattsBettas

Saw this on tv- http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=PxB91KXIgn8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=PxB91KXIgn8 (watch the whole thing... It's worth it)

Fish are good. I'm happy. Night all!


----------



## dramaqueen

Yeah, the hobby can be very frustrating. So can being fishless! Lol


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol well, dq, I know now you will have fish soon, and some beautiful ones from Myates at that!

Missed water changes today. Had a rather unexpected busy evening, but oh well. They will survive.

I found a place that sells grindal worms and daphnia in my city. If I buy those and the whiteworm and vinegar eel cultures from bb123, my culture collection will be nearly complete (I would need Walter worms and some other things I am forgetting about). Live foods are great. Fun to raise, great for fish, crucial for fry, etc. 

Also thinking about Montezuma swords since I found someone local who sells them (same person as cultures). 

Designing a DIY filter in my mind XD.

That's it for now! Good night everyone. I have decided that I am going to limit iPad time to before eleven o'clock, lol.


----------



## dramaqueen

Yeah, I guess I need to be patient.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Just finished reading through your journal. I'm sorry to hear about the troubles you've been having, but it sounds like things are on the upturn (hopefully)! Your journal is very fun to read and full of great information!


----------



## Mahsfish

Matt how many fry do you have? Hopefully they are doing better? And how big are they? Like
Cm or
Inches


----------



## Mahsfish

Matt how many fry do you have? Hopefully they are doing better? And how big are they? Like
Cm or
Inches


----------



## MattsBettas

Fry are about a 1-1.5 cm long. Doing fine. Haven't counted.

I'm seriously considering dividing the 33g into two and using it as a grow out for two spawns I'm doing this summer (I'm not telling anyone what they are going to be yet).


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay. Does it have to do anything with the hmpk thread u set up in the show bettas category


----------



## MattsBettas

Maybe...


----------



## Mahsfish

I guess we'll find out soon enough. Good luck


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol I haven't decided on a bunch of things, one spawn is set in stone but one depends on a couple of things...


----------



## Mahsfish

Great can't wait. Good luck Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

They will both be hmpk... I'm done with halfmoons.


----------



## Mahsfish

Same


----------



## MattsBettas

My hm ares has ten heated, filtered gallons all to himself... What does he do? Mutilates his own tail.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yup. Half moons are hard to keep as you have to maintain their beautiful fins aswell as getting those impaired fins to be symmetrical can be tough. Hmpk are fun to work with IMO plus their smaller fins are easier to work with especially in tough water conditions here in Calgary


----------



## MattsBettas

My water is fine for bettas. Ph and GH is a little higher then ideal but not bad. Tailbiters suck. 

Not only are hmpks easier to keep, there is just something about them that makes them awesome. They are way more interactive with e owner and more active because of their smaller fins.


----------



## Mahsfish

Agreed. I think the plakat in them makes them spunkier and active. I love the way they wag their body and move when flaring and dancing for a female.


----------



## MattsBettas

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Got all my water changes done, cleaned the chi, and got a mealworm culture which is now in a jar going crazy over a piece of carrot, since the petstores starve them. Tomorrow I will get them in oats. 

Still trying to draft shelves that will work in the space I have.

Anyone have suggestions as to what to do with my 33g?


----------



## Mahsfish

Cichlids!!! Get some nice dwarf cichlids. Like rams, kribs, Agassiz, or apistogramma cacuatoides or something like that.


----------



## MattsBettas

No I meant betta-wise. Lol. But my brothers (technically it's his. Really it's mine) 29 (?) should be open soon...


----------



## Mahsfish

I was waiting for that response haha. If you want it can just become a grow out. Or if you're interested you could do something like what CJ has with the planters sorority with the cories and some large tetras.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea... Idk. Whatever it it it will be planted, and have bettas in it. Like I said before I'm thinking about dividing it and housing females from two upcoming spawns in it. Making it a grow out/sorority type thing until they sell, then adding in the next batch. Still not sure. Would love to hear what other people think though.


----------



## MattsBettas

My black boy, my (I'm so ashamed to admit this) favorite fish ever, and the fish that really got me into this, is showing his age pretty badly. Poor guy used to have so much energy and a huge appetite, today I came home to him laying on a leaf and breathing heavily. Sigh. I'll be upset if he dies but I know he will have had a good life.


----------



## Mahsfish

Do you have any pictures if him? Like to see how he used to look and now? Hopefully he's alright. Good luck with him


----------



## MattsBettas

He doesn't look any different, he's just acting differently which is very typical for old fish. Believe me, I know a lot about diseases and I am almost 100% certain that this is simply age related.


----------



## Mahsfish

Probably is. How old is he? Petstore fish I'm guessing if he's your very first bett??


----------



## MattsBettas

He's not my first betta. Lol. He's just the one that got me so fascinated by them. He is a petstore fish and has never had health issues, and he's around two years old.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yea probably old age. I have an old female and she's a lot more melo unless there's a fish to flare at. Hopefully he gets better and stays with you


----------



## MattsBettas

Got started on some DIY filters (will share if they work, lol.). I'm really hoping they work since they are dirt cheap (I could probably do four for 30$) and they are designed to be betta friendly. A couple of my tanks need filters, to. 

My black PK is lethargic and has lost color but I've seen this coming for a while now. Those are literally his only symptoms. 

Excited for my aquabid fish! Still open for a group buy though, if we find the right seller!


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

If you reply to my pm I can tell you the seller I found...
Sorry about your black pk.


----------



## logisticsguy

Yikes! I just saw the satellite weather and nasty looking for you Edmonton area people. Hope everyone will be ok.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm fine. It's hitting south west Edmonton HARD (hail, buckets of rain, wind, tornado warning, insane thunder) and on the way home our bus was leaking. We have been advised to take shelter and I am heading down to the basement because this is fairly serious. I will be online, but the power could go out at any moment. 

I have plans for the fish if the power goes out.


----------



## Mahsfish

I heard the radio too. #PrayForCentralAlberta. Hopefully you guys are okay. It's nice and sunny over hear. Good thing it's heading north


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol. Hopefully it will be over soon.


----------



## Fenghuang

Stay safe, Matt!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks, feng.

The worst of it is definatly over which is good! Of course I had to walk (run) home during the worst of it. Not the north side gets it.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Sounds like you had bad weather too. Had some nasty weather my way as well.


----------



## dramaqueen

I'm glad you're ok, Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks dq and stay safe bl13131.

My black boy stopped eating tonight and has lost pretty much all energy. He doesn't seem to be in pain, though, so I won't euthanize yet. It will kill me if I have to but I will do what's best for him. Everyone else is doing well, though!


----------



## BettaLover1313

Thanks MattsBettas! Our bad weather has moved on (hopefully dissipated, don't want anyone else to deal with those storms). I'm sorry to hear about your black betta.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks. This guy is really important to me.

Also, I've figured out what's killing the fry. It's those stupid parasites.


----------



## BettaLover1313

I can imagine how important he is to you, the ones that get you really started are definitely very precious. 
At least you know what's killing them. Is there a way to get rid of the parasites? (Still fairly new to all of this XD.)


----------



## MattsBettas

Medicating fry is always risky but I could try a half dose of paraguard or aq salt.


----------



## MattsBettas

My black boy is dead. I found him like this this morning, leaning against the snail that was raised with him-







SIP. You were my favorite fish.


----------



## Fenghuang

/: SIP. He was a beautiful fish. I'm sorry for your loss.


----------



## BettaLover1313

S.I.P he was a handsome little guy and you gave him a great home. I'm very sorry for your loss.


----------



## logisticsguy

He had a great life with you Matt. So sorry he was a beauty. SIP.


----------



## Destinystar

I am so sorry Matt for the loss of your black boy...Hugs. SIP black boy your were a beautiful fish with a happy home and will be missed.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

It's always sad to see your favourites go. Looks like at least he passed peacefully enough.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea. That makes it a bit better, he just layed down and died basically. He was awesome. I'm going to bury him, because he doesnt deserve the trash can.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Look! Hahaha might be the only fry in the whole tank! Can you see him?
Very sorry about your black plakat.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Oh it's upside down.... Lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

In the corner, by your hand? Or where?


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

It is right in the centre of well if you can't see it but it is there.


----------



## MattsBettas

I see it!


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh my God. I feel like today is one of those days where I just want to be done with everything. First my favorite fish died, which is frustrating enough. Later, I went to see the sorority and Jess, the hm that I bred to Ares, is sick. She got beat up bad and doesnt look so good. So I divided her off with some paraguard and started cleaning the tank. Now, the filter stopped working and I spilt water all over the place. The tank looks like **** and nothing is working either. So freaking frustrated! These are the days that make you wonder why you ever got into fish keeping. 

Ugh.


----------



## BettaLover1313

We all have those bad days, hopefully tomorrow will be better.


----------



## MattsBettas

Jess's belly has gone white and she's sulking. I don't think she will make it through the night but I am trying my best. Paraguard, clean water, ial...


----------



## logisticsguy

There is not much else you can really do Matt. :-( This hobby can be cruel sometimes. Keep your chin up better days ahead.


----------



## MattsBettas

I know 

I ended up putting her down (clove oil). By the time I made the decision, it was obvious that she was suffering, and would be dead soon. 

It frustrates me SO MUCH that I do everything to take care of them, I spend hours a week caring for them, they eat some of the best foods money can buy, they all have at last 2.5 heated gallons of water to themselves, and yet I've lost five in the last month and a half, two of those in one day. Ugh. 

Bad luck has to end sometime!


----------



## BettaLover1313

I'm very sorry that you had to put Jess down, butt at least she's not suffering anymore. The bad luck does have to end, and hopefully it will be soon.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm done with petstore fish and I am done with long fins. From this day on, I refuse to buy any more. I may still use a couple long finned fish to introduce certain traits to hmpk, but other than that *I'm done*.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Awww, Matt I am so sorry Jess was very beautiful. At least you have her fry.


----------



## MattsBettas

Not anymore I don't. The last fry was killed by some sort of stupid parasite yesterday.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Oh no!  This really is a nasty streak of bad luck. I'm very sorry that you've been going through all of it!


----------



## MattsBettas

Emptied and cleaned the fry tank. Ugh. 

And I entered in the photo of the month contest, maybe I'll get a couple of votes.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Good luck!


----------



## Saphira101

Good luck in the contest, and I'm really sorry about your fry. Sometimes fishkeeping can really suck. (It's worth it in the end, though.)


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Please help! My red hmpk I purchased from elite himself is sick.
I bred him successfully and the fry are now 10 days old. He has been in a jar since breeding as I have been reconditioning him because the spawn only threw 2 fry. I found out yesterday night he has a white fungus on one of his eyes. His eye is popping out of his head but he is active and overall seems happy. I am super worried because he is the only male I have that is breeding quality. He has been moved to a hospital tank with IAL and Kanaplex. Is there anything else I should do?


----------



## LittleBettaFish

If it's 'pop-eye' and he otherwise seems healthy, it generally heals up on its own. I had a couple of fish with quite severe pop-eye, and just keeping the water clean and the fish well-fed can help it to clear up.

I believe the use of Epsom salt can also help bring down the swelling. I have never used it though, so not sure what amount is necessary.


----------



## Mahsfish

Inremember one of my endless had popeye. It somewhat healed and he survived, but his eye fell off from it.


----------



## MattsBettas

Like I said on bb123's journal, ial and kanaplex is a good place to start as popeye is often bacterial in nature. The correct dose of Epsom salt is 1tsp/g predissolved, and then you can work up to 3tsp/g.

One of my boys has popeye despite numerous rounds of treatment, but he is otherwise healthy and lives a normal life. I just keep an eye on it.

Mah, what's an endless?


----------



## MattsBettas

I went to petsmart (I absolutly hate it but it's cheap and close) to get lights and saw an emaciated and tailless (it had rotted off) "halfmoon". Ugh. Pet stores make me so sad. He has the potential to be a gorgeous fish... Clean white body and marbled red and white fins. His condition is also relatively easy to treat, especially by someone who knows what they are doing, but he is still probably going to be dead in two weeks. There's no way he should have ever gotten to that condition. Stupid petstores.

He would have came home with me, but I'm not willing to risk introducing any more diseases. 

/rant

If someone would be willing to adopt him after I rehabilitate him though... I might be able to pull some strings. XD

Oh, and I also came home with some cambomba for the sorority.


----------



## Fenghuang

If only you didn't live in Canada... /:


----------



## logisticsguy

If you can get that HM Matt please do it and I will adopt him. 

He will fit right in here.


----------



## MattsBettas

Seriously? 

I will see what I can do... If/when I get him I will post tons of pics for you. I need to go back to the store anyways.


----------



## Fenghuang

Yay! I am so glad he found a great home.


----------



## MattsBettas

That's assuming I can get him... It's Sunday so it won't be until tomorrow night, store closes at six.

He will be my first official rescue! Lol.


----------



## logisticsguy

Excellent. Yes seriously lol . I hate to see a nice fish like that with terrible rot. The little guy needs a warm home and some good meals. Good luck with the mission yay! Lets get him outta that pet store. We have more room at the betta motel now, he wont get fancy digs but it will be clean warm and lotsa food.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Hope you can rescue the little guy if he's still there!


----------



## MattsBettas

Doesn't need to be anything fancy, anything is better than a cup! So glad he has a good home to go to. 

I'm getting all set up and ready for him tonight. He will have very clean water and lots of NLS! 

If he is gone, I will be sad. Lol. Maybe his missing tail is a blessing in disguise, I doubt anyone will want him but me!


----------



## MattsBettas

Just figured out that I can convert my 20g to a npt this summer for a fairly low price, I already have everything I need except the plants, and shipping on the plants is lower than what I thought it would be!


----------



## TurtleBarb

Matt, where are you getting your plants? I may want to order a plant in the future, so I'm curious to know what online sources folks like to use.


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh, I'm going to probably order from The PlantGuy- http://www.theplantguy.org/ - But in America there are lots of better places to order from, lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

Despite much reluctance from my mom, I got him. He is emaciated, and has fin rot on all of his fins (dorsal, caudal [severe], anal, ventrals). His caudal is almost gone, actually. 

Pet stores piss me off so much. When my mom asked me why I was getting him I said "If I don't, he will die since they don't take care of them" and the lady who works there replied with "Yes we do! They get their water changed once a week!" I so wanted to say "Right. You take such good care of them that their tails rot off". So anyways, I ended up ticking two people off with one sentence! 

Maybe I made the employee rethink the blatant animal abuse they manage to pull off. 

So anyways, here he is! Let's see what I can do with this bugger, at the moment I'm treating him conservatively with aq salt and lots of good food.


----------



## logisticsguy

Awesome. You had every right to be snarky btw. Did they ever feed him? Poor guy is starved and the water must have been dreadful for that level of rot. yeah once a week jeez how is that working out for them. You know that boy has potential I think. Good for you Matt!


----------



## BettaLover1313

Poor guy  it's great that you rescued him though! Hopefully he'll recover and show what a wonderful gem he is!


----------



## MattsBettas

Honestly, and im not just saying this, once he colors up he will look pretty good. 

Petsmart employees hate me, but I don't care. Lol!


----------



## dramaqueen

Good for you, Matt! He's going to be beautiful!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks! I finished acclimation and put him in, he's breathing fairly heavily but that is completely understandable.

Edit- Now that I have him in clear water, it is obvious he is a dragonscale!


----------



## Fenghuang

Even for being in such poor conditions, he is a beauty. Good for you for rescuing him, Matt, and you too, LG.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks Feng. 

So, I got him to eat a NLS. He didn't like omega one XD. Also, he just seems... weak. No better way to describe it. This pic shows his color a bit better-







And no... He's not turning, nor is this pic at an angle... That is his whole tail. And he only has 1/2 a ventral on one side.


----------



## Jexx

That is despicable! How can they think it is OK to let an animal degrade to that level. If an animal is losing body parts, you obviously aren't taking good care of it! Good for you for standing up and saving him. I wonder what shape he was in when he arrived at the store and how they did not notice him LOSING HIS TAIL?!
His color is beautiful. You'll bring him around and he will be gorgeous.


----------



## MattsBettas

Tell me about it:roll:. I agree with you so much. Some petstores are disgusting places.

Getting him to eat is a struggle, but he is eating a little bit. Right now the plan is to fatten him up, heal his fins, and send him off to logisticsguy.


----------



## Saphira101

Glad you rescued him! I once bought a fish missing most of its caudal as well, but he unfortunately died five days later of a horrid bacterial infection that he gained from his cup.


----------



## MattsBettas

I remember tesla. That was a sad story but he had a nice last few days.

Hopefully this boy doesn't get any worse.

I got him to eat a nice amount of nls grow tonight!


----------



## Saphira101

Glad you're getting him to eat! 

Good luck.


----------



## Mahsfish

Congrats Matt. Glad you rescued him good luck. 

And just a quick question, I have to leave for family vacation this summer. Do you think the fry could handle a shaky car ride to my uncles?


----------



## MattsBettas

How long is the ride?


----------



## Mahsfish

About 25-30 mins


----------



## MattsBettas

If you package them correctly, keep the temp stable, and keep it from bouncing around then it should be fine.


----------



## Mahsfish

How should I package it? Put a blanket underneath and around it? Or use like a bit if the thermal wrap I have from CJ?


----------



## MattsBettas

You need to get in into another container... A box or something... Then stuff it with blankets so it doesn't shift around.


----------



## Mahsfish

Like get the tank into a box? Or transfer the fry to another container?


----------



## MattsBettas

The container the fry are in has to stay stable, so if it would be easier to move them into a smaller container for the drive, do it. And then put the container in a box, and put them back in the big tank at his house.


----------



## Mahsfish

I think it'll be to hard to get them into a smaller container. Plus my parent will say "Why do you have to do all of this just for your fish" and try to take things into their own hands. I think I'll put a towel or small blacker around it and then life it into a box and then another blanket to secure it. Hopefully they do fine


----------



## MattsBettas

I will bet anyone here money that there will be a storm tonight XD


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Mine never nest when there are storms the lazy buggers. We had a massive storm the other day and nothing. 

I like the little craft mesh tunnel with the moss in it. Do your bettas go in there?


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh yea they go in all the time, sometimes they just rest but sometimes they swim through.

All credit goes to syriiven for the original idea though.


----------



## TurtleBarb

Heh. I was going to post about the clever craft mesh tunnel I made. I guess I reinvented the wheel. My betta loves it, too. It's really gratifying to be able to build something that a pet likes.


----------



## Mahsfish

Just checking in on all of my fellow Albertains. Hopefully this floodin isn't hitting anybody too much. A little scared myself but I live the highest area so thankfully I'm good. Hopefully so is everybody else. All schools been cancelled here even though not all areas are affected


----------



## MattsBettas

How will you do finals? oO

Glad your safe. 

In Edmonton we aren't getting any of this. I hope Calgary is ok.


----------



## Saphira101

How is your rescue?


----------



## MattsBettas

Good. He's a pig and is full of attitude lol.


----------



## Saphira101

Awesome.  
Glad he's doing well.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks! He is still super skinny and he still has fin rot, but both are improving. He flares at EVERYTHING.


----------



## Mahsfish

It's hit high river the worst. A couple people are missing and still stranded. Helicopters and boats over there. Here it's just the bow river. Simple evacuations and they have the police patrolling and bob cats and stuff building a barrier to prevent some flooding I guess. 

And Matt tomorrow is is aboriginal day so to respect that no exams were scheduled at all. I'm done all of mine now anyways though.


----------



## Mahsfish

Birds eye view of downtown calgary


----------



## Mahsfish

High way helicopter shot


----------



## Mahsfish

nother pic


----------



## Mahsfish

High river ab


----------



## Saphira101

Yikes!

Hope you're OK


----------



## Mahsfish

Yup I'm okay. Grandparents are over as they got evacuated. It's actually sunny now so hopefully it doesn't rain and they can deal with the flooding. Downtown and all low lying areas are affected.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Matt-glad to hear your little guy is doing well!

Mahsfish-Stay safe!


----------



## Mar

Mahsfish said:


> Birds eye view of downtown calgary


Lol, dad said let's go to the zoo. Stay safe Brayden!


----------



## MattsBettas

Mar, are you in Calgary?


----------



## Mar

Yeah, Brayden and I go to the same school! Just really worried for everyone
affected by the flooding. None in the community where I live, so I'm all right for now. :s


----------



## Mahsfish

Yes Matt she is. We go to the same school as well. 

My dad wanted to drive down town to see the flooding. Grandparents are over though, they got evacuated.


----------



## Mar

Mahsfish said:


> Yes Matt she is. We go to the same school as well.
> 
> My dad wanted to drive down town to see the flooding. Grandparents are over though, they got evacuated.


That's scary :s but I'm glad to hear they're unharmed. 
Lol, don't think I'm going downtown anytime soon. I'm a wimp. :/


----------



## Mahsfish

I wanted to just to actually see the flooding. The pics look bad but it's always surreal when you see it in person.


----------



## Mar

So uh, just looked up the zoo.










Thank God they've been moved to higher ground. 

IF you do ever go in person, take pics!

Sorry for spamming your thread Matt :$


----------



## MattsBettas

Don't be sorry! Feel free to do whatever you want with it lol.


----------



## Mar

Hahha ok, just remember you gave me permission!


----------



## logisticsguy

Ive never seen anything like today in Calgary. This is a major disaster. Glad Mar and Brayden are ok. We were stuck for hours on roads trying to get stuff done. People really pulling together. Power out in many homes. Downtown was devastated, we evacuated 83 year old mom in law from her downtown seniors home she is ok. House is full of people tonight.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yup. Everyone's really working hard to help each other. My school, my dads school he works at and my friends school are all accepting evacuees in the gyms. As well as many other locations


----------



## Mar

Good to hear you're safe as well! Thanks for all your help, and I am really happy to hear how everyone is working together and some people are even getting turned away as volunteers because we have too many!


----------



## MattsBettas

Moved Ares into a 2.5. After I bred him, he stopped tailbiting as much, then, after Xanthus and Jackson died he started again... Worse then ever. Hopefully a change of scenery will slow him down. 

Because I moved Ares into another tank, I'm cleaning and packing up a ten gallon, which will be used for future spawns. 

Accidentally started a green water culture, but that might end up being a good thing since eventually I would like a daphnia culture.

Rescue boy is doing good, his fin rot has disappeared and I took him off salt.

I went to the library to study yesterday and ended up coming home with two fish books and a magazine. That was the last thing I need. In the magazine there was a comprehensive guide to a shrimp tank...


----------



## logisticsguy

So happy to hear rescue boy is doing good  Can I send you the money for shipping him Matt?

Whenever you think he is ready. Did they charge you any money for him at the store?


----------



## MattsBettas

Hey CJ, my Mom's actually talked to me about it... She might want him for her work. If you really want him though I will get him to you, but at the time he is to weak for shipping.... He's so skinny! 

They did charge me for him. Dumb cashier insisted there was nothing wrong with him :/ I don't mind though, it was that or let him die.


----------



## logisticsguy

I think it would be great for rescue boy to go with your Mom! With the worry and expense for shipping (shipping always scares me now), and his health that's a good idea. The main thing is that you rescued him which made me so happy. The fish Im seeing lately at fish store often look so skinny to me especially the baby bettas Ive seen for sale. Maybe its just me being used to fat fish. :-? Good job and thanks for rescuing him.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks CJ. Nothing is set in stone yet.

In other news, I found a Canadian who is willing to ship some grindal worms to me!


----------



## logisticsguy

Whatever you decide to do is cool with me. Where did you find grindals? I could use those worms.


----------



## MattsBettas

A guy on Facebook. 5 bucks plus shipping, not too bad. I'll just give you some if I get them.


----------



## dramaqueen

To all of our members in Calgary, please stay safe! You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## MattsBettas

I had to yank a girl out of the sorority yesterday, she was always on the bottom of the hierarchy but she ended up beat up and stressed and I felt like if I didn't get her out, something worse was going to end up happening. She got some sort of worms for the second time, so I jarred her with aq salt and paraguard which took care of the worms overnight. I went to do a water change today, and I dropped her in the sink. But she's starting to recover which is good I guess.


----------



## Mar

dramaqueen said:


> To all of our members in Calgary, please stay safe! You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.


Thank you!



MattsBettas said:


> I had to yank a girl out of the sorority yesterday, she was always on the bottom of the hierarchy but she ended up beat up and stressed and I felt like if I didn't get her out, something worse was going to end up happening. She got some sort of worms for the second time, so I jarred her with aq salt and paraguard which took care of the worms overnight. I went to do a water change today, and I dropped her in the sink. But she's starting to recover which is good I guess.


Our situations are almost exactly the same! Had to take a girl out of my sorority a while back because she was at the bottom of the pecking order too. And I was doing a water change as well today. Dropped my betta in the sink by accident too!  Just not a good day today.


----------



## MattsBettas

The thing is, I dropped her in soap suds. I got her out ASAP and into clean water though and she was fine. Still very nerve wracking. 

Also, I will be getting a couple more girls from catw0manM


----------



## Mar

MattsBettas said:


> The thing is, I dropped her in soap suds. I got her out ASAP and into clean water though and she was fine. Still very nerve wracking.
> 
> Also, I will be getting a couple more girls from catw0manM


Soap suds :-? Glad she's ok. My sink was empty :s

Sounds awesome, how many female bettas will you have? Make sure to post pics once they all arrive!


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't know how many I am getting, two or maybe three, all depends. That will put me at six or seven. My sorority is at three right now and I am extremely nervous... Three is a bad number. That and I have a... Well... Intense sorority.


----------



## Mar

Ah, feisty girls? 

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## MattsBettas

VERY feisty. You know how you see shows with sharks jumping out of the water when meat is being tossed at them? My girls are like that at feeding time. One of them bites me all the time. XD


----------



## Mar

Lol, sharks and bettas, good comparison. 

Your bettas sound adorable. All of my female bettas jump for their food now lol :S Kinda worried for them, but I'm really amazed to see how high and accurate their jumps are!


----------



## MattsBettas

My betas aren't accurate at all. They're just like "Oh, food?!" Then they jump as dramatically as possible across the tank. Fools.


----------



## Saphira101

MattsBettas said:


> My betas aren't accurate at all. They're just like "Oh, food?!" Then they jump as dramatically as possible across the tank. Fools.


Lol! Same with all of mine except one. Pi has surprisingly good aim.


----------



## Mar

MattsBettas said:


> My betas aren't accurate at all. They're just like "Oh, food?!" Then they jump as dramatically as possible across the tank. Fools.


ahaha actually sounds adorable!

So on Friday, I was thinking of expanding my aquarium store horizon. I've only been to PetSmart, Petland, and Pisces. I've heard of Big Al's in the NE. Have you been?


----------



## MattsBettas

In NE Calgary? No, I have not... I've driven by it a couple times. I live in Edmonton, and the one up here is great, the best pet shop in out city, but I have heard some less positive things about the one down there. I'm not speaking from personal experience and it's bound to be better then any chain stores. There is one pet shop in Calgary... Riverside I think... That is supposed to be really good.


----------



## Mar

MattsBettas said:


> In NE Calgary? No, I have not... I've driven by it a couple times. I live in Edmonton, and the one up here is great, the best pet shop in out city, but I have heard some less positive things about the one down there. I'm not speaking from personal experience and it's bound to be better then any chain stores. There is one pet shop in Calgary... Riverside I think... That is supposed to be really good.


Oh ok! And yeah I met NE Calgary  Sorry, forgot you lived in Edmonton for a moment.
I'll be sure to check it out, although NE Calgary is apparently as ghetto as Calgary can get, (never really been :s) 

Never heard of Riverside, but I'll check that out too  Yay more places to go.


----------



## Mar

xD, found it! Riverfront aquariums! 
You were that close. Website looks nice too. Thanks


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol... We stayed there twice in feb/mar and it wasn't THAT bad. North Edmonton is worse.


----------



## Mar

I went up to Edmonton multiple times for volleyball, and stayed  here.

There were shootings in the 2 nights we were there, so I guess you know what ghetto means lmao.

But ya, it was quite scary. My favourite thing about Edmonton would probably be all the trees on the streets. Makes it look peaecful, even up in the northside.

Oh, also plan to go to U of A, so how's that area?


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, I love all of the big trees. I used to live in an old neighborhood that had massive trees that covered the streets. It was awesome. 

What year were you staying here? Recently we had a year that was so bad, we got the nickname "Deadmonton". Seriously people. It's not that bad, for the most part. A lot of the crimes were gang related which is still scary but if you stay away from things like that its not as scary. Part of it is also because you were downtown. Some parts of downtown are better then others...


----------



## Mar

MattsBettas said:


> Yea, I love all of the big trees. I used to live in an old neighborhood that had massive trees that covered the streets. It was awesome.
> 
> What year were you staying here? Recently we had a year that was so bad, we got the nickname "Deadmonton". Seriously people. It's not that bad, for the most part. A lot of the crimes were gang related which is still scary but if you stay away from things like that its not as scary. Part of it is also because you were downtown. Some parts of downtown are better then others...


AHAHA omg that is actually so funny. Like 4 years back, my parents called it Deadmonton because apparently nothing interesting happens there. Like it's boring, but really, when I went there.. last year I think, maybe it was 2 years ago for a tourny, it was really exciting.

Yep, love the trees, we need more of them here on our streets. 
And there's gangs here too. Apparently it's like a Chinese mafia? No clue lmao.


----------



## Senshine

I didn't like riverfront at all. It was really dirty and it smelt pretty gross when I went.. There was also only one employee that I saw and he didn't ask if we needed anything o.0 Most people at Big Als are really nice and the place is really clean. There is Pisces pet emporium as well, it is huge and pretty nice although somethings are over priced.


----------



## Mar

Senshine said:


> I didn't like riverfront at all. It was really dirty and it smelt pretty gross when I went.. There was also only one employee that I saw and he didn't ask if we needed anything o.0 Most people at Big Als are really nice and the place is really clean. There is Pisces pet emporium as well, it is huge and pretty nice although somethings are over priced.


Thanks!

I loved Pisces, but didn't really like their betta selection. Lots of overpriced elephant ears I simply didn't feed attractive.
Ok, I'll still check out Riverfront now that I have 2 opinions, and I'll tell you how it goes! 

How was Big Al's selection?


----------



## Senshine

They have some beautiful bettas. If you go on the first few days they get their new shipments and get first pick, you'll find the best ones! They are reasonably priced (elephant ears being closer to $20 though) but it seems like you can ask if they'll give you a better price as it's what I did with a female I got from them. 
I hope your experience at riverfront is better than mine was haha.


----------



## Mar

Definitely going to Big Al's then!  Sounds great! 
And I hope Riverfront is nicer than what you described, too. 
So you're a Calgarian as well?


----------



## Senshine

I hope you like it as much as I do! I've gotten 7 bettas from them I believe, and only one from pisces hahah.
Yep! And the NE isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It isn't the best but it's not like full of serious gangs or anything  IMO, the worst area is forestlawn..


----------



## Mar

Forest lawn lmao, I hear stories about that place! But never been ;s /not a true Calgarian 

Yeah, I don't really think there's any real gang violence and stuff in Calgary, and barely anything compared to the States.


----------



## Senshine

Me tooooo, and I see things.. I go there kinda regularly for breakfast at phils and I used to go to J&J reptiles for hornworms haha.



MattsBettas said:


> I had to yank a girl out of the sorority yesterday, she was always on the bottom of the hierarchy but she ended up beat up and stressed and I felt like if I didn't get her out, something worse was going to end up happening. She got some sort of worms for the second time, so I jarred her with aq salt and paraguard which took care of the worms overnight. I went to do a water change today, and I dropped her in the sink. But she's starting to recover which is good I guess.


I hate the horrible feeling that you get when something like that happens :-?
I was putting my frogs into their bin, but I had to get them in the net first, so I took them over to the sink and put the net under the container they were in and the first one started going down closer to the net and as soon as it got to the edge it kinda leaped and went right over the net right into the sink.. I got it out but I felt so bad.. Then the second one did the exact same thing -.- except it actually fell into the drain  It has a grate thing over it so it didn't go down the pipe, but it was hard to get the little thing out and I was so scared I hurt her. They are both doing good now though!


----------



## Mar

Uuuugh my African dwarf frogs jumped out of my hands during a water change and leaped behind a desk with all my tanks on it. Had to move everything and spilled everywhere. Luckily they're both fine and weren't severely damaged.


----------



## Mahsfish

I hate Pisces. It's so overpriced its actually stupid. I bought my knobs for $7 at riverfront I love the store. And sold them for $2-10. But then per smart sells them for $11 which isn't bad but then Pisces has them at $20. 

I personally think riverfront has the best overall prices. Big Als is okay I've never bought fish from them. Big Als has some decent stock. 

Riverfront has the best beta selection IMO and they aren't that great tho. I was just there buying frozen daphnia for my bettas. They also have the best cichlids stock and prices IMO. But flowerhorns they will rip you off on unless you know what you're looking for. Fry are $15 which is decent for what I saw but they had 2 poor quality males with nice head but it got injured for $350 each. Still best store I believe. Not setup like big Als or Pisces its like someone's fish room basement type thing. My uncle know the owner.


----------



## Mar

Only thing I bought at pisces was a lid cause no one else sold them

But thanks brayden  ill go to big als and riverfront then


----------



## logisticsguy

Well Riverfront is nothing fancy for sure. But they do often have good betta and usually well cared for. Prices are pretty good as well. Last year I had what can be best described as a blowout at Big Als. It was awful at the time, dead fish, dirty water quite disgusting. Thankfully new staff came in and it got much better. Pisces does carry some products that others stores don't like nls grow. The Petland near my house (Westhills) was also horrible until a new betta keeper came in last month. A change of staff can make a big difference. The staff is more important than the name on the door. From my experience you can make a big change as a customer by complaining loudly if things at the store are way off. Keep in mind the job as fish keeper in a store is busy and often thankless. Give them encouragement if they are doing well. It is impossible to know everything about every kind of fish, many good keepers will listen and be open to information from customers that have specific knowledge about betta. Whenever possible I like to help them with problems and share information that they may not know. Lets help get the ones selling baby betta up to speed on how to look after them so not so many die soon after leaving the store.


----------



## Mahsfish

CJ Riverfront has NLS grow aswell now. I check today. Seems quite expensive though. It was $30 for large container $20 for medium container


----------



## MattsBettas

Order it online...


----------



## MattsBettas

Calgarians on this thread, please read- http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=213482 

I would strongly suggest finding an alternate water source, one Calgarian on this site has started having issues after changing water.


----------



## Mar

Thanks Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

No problem!

I don't know what is up with the girl I yanked from the sorority. She is lethargic, bloated (in a sbd kinda way), and I have her in Epsom salts... Today her bloat went down so I fed her four NLS pellets, big mistake, she immediately went into sbd. Ugh. Tomorrow I will be upping the dose of Epsom salts.


----------



## MattsBettas

The girl I'm getting via catw0man is now safley in Canada, on her kitchen table lol. I'm so happy! I need more sorority members before the **** hits the fan in my sorority of three.


----------



## Mar

Yay! Post pics as soon as you get your sorority together!


----------



## MattsBettas

Don't worry! You will not be dissapointed.


----------



## Fenghuang

Yay, I'm glad she is safe! I love sorority pictures too. I'll be waiting excitedly as well.


----------



## Mar

MattsBettas said:


> Don't worry! You will not be dissapointed.


HAhah better not be! 
Can't wait to see them.


----------



## MattsBettas

Well it won't be for about a month, first I need to get them then I need to qt...


----------



## MattsBettas

0ne of the girls I'm getting-








Also, I doubled the sick girl's Epsom salt dosage to two tsp/g... I will not hesitate to go higher if this doesn't help. She made a tiny little poop for me today. She's still pretty bad though. I'm thinking I'll keep her in qt until I am adding the new girls so they can't just pick on her. It'll also give her a chance to heal up from all the damage and get some strength back. 

This is a bit random, but bare with- I like how assassin snails look, and I wouldn't mind a few, but what do they eat besides other snails?

And at 10:45am tomorrow, I am officially free! For two months, but still! Summer is by far my favorite time of the year.


----------



## dramaqueen

Beautiful female, Matt. I hope your sick girl makes it. It sounds like she's a bit better.


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't know what's even wrong... Ugh I sure wish fish could talk. My life would be so much easier lol.


----------



## dramaqueen

I agree. Life would be a lot easier for us fish lovers if they could tell us what's wrong. She's not eggbound, is she?


----------



## MattsBettas

No, it has something to do with her digestive system. It's presenting itself like constipation but there are a couple of things that make me think of different conditions. I think if I can get her to poop it would help a lot... Lol.


----------



## Mar

Your AB girl is gorgeous!
And I hope your sick girl gets better soon.

And I'm guessing you're free now?  Yay, gratz


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm freeeeeeeeeeee! Awesome feeling but kinda sad too. Lol. Are you?

The upped Epsom salt dose helped. She's pooped twice today, but they are like the weirdest poops ever x_x


----------



## Mar

Good to hear the epsom salts helped! 

And yeah, I was free a while ago. My exams were cancelled because of the flood.
I kinda miss my classmates, but I know I'll see them again next year!


----------



## MattsBettas

I took home another leopard gecko for the summer. They're my favorite reptiles and I love them. The guy I took home is really aggressive and HUGE, I ended up hand taming him and have been sorta working with him since January. He draws blood when he bites!

So yea. Another reason I NEED to get some shelves built.


----------



## dramaqueen

It was nice of you to take that gecko home with you and spend time working with him. I'm glad your girl finally pooped. Lol


----------



## MattsBettas

The girl I took out of the sorority died today/last night. I know I shouldn't, but I feel like a bit of a failure. She was starting to recover, so I didn't expect it. 

And by the way I'm sorry that half of this journal is me complaining.


----------



## Mar

Nooo :'( It's not your fault, it rarely is the fishkeeper's fault. Well at least good ones lmao. And you are!

Do you only have 2 in your sorority now?
And that's ok, my journal was allll about me complaining lmao.

So I went to Big Al's and 2 different PetSmart and PetLands. They all kinda sucked. Their bettas were in pretty crappy condition, and I spotted at least one dead in each of the stores. Big Al's is overpriced and they only sold VTs :/

Couldn't find RiverFront! But apparently it's not too good. I'm just gonna stick with Pisces for now. It's my favourite, but so far :s


----------



## Mahsfish

Riverfront is only a couple minutes from big Als and Pisces. It's good IMO. Not organized and setup like a big Als tho. Kinda like a share house but I think it's great.


----------



## Mar

Yeah I must've passed it, cause I was all the way at Sunridge lol.
Okay fine, I'll check it out some time.


----------



## MattsBettas

I have three girls in the sorority, which is a disaster waiting to happen, but only having two is even worse. If it goes down to two before I am ready to add my three new girls (I am beyond excited for them), I will jar them and reintroduce them with the new three. Three girls should be fine for ~3 weeks, I have lots of hiding spots. 

I don't really like going to petstores much anymore, except big als (which is really good in Edmonton). Besides rescues, which I will do occasionally and make my dissatisfaction known when I do, I will not buy anymore petstore fish and will try not to support them when I can. They are depressing, and you can throw any excuse you want at me, but they could, for the most part, do much better when it comes to the treatment of animals.

Gimme a sec and I will post pics of the three girls I am getting! They are beautiful!


----------



## logisticsguy

Im looking forward to your new girls. IMO female may be more important to a breeding program than the males. Your girls might be ok with only 3 Matt depending on their disposition and with the hiding spots you should be ok. The pet stores definitely could do better with betta especially. I am trying to get them to display in 1g plastic containers. Easy to clean, change water, even add a lil plant or 2. They just will not change even though they wouldn't lose any stock and could sell healthier fish. Also they cheap out feeding them so little they are starved and prone to disease. If you got pet store girls you would need to qt anyway so not much help.


----------



## MattsBettas

Cj, it would be great if they would do that. To me, it makes sense, but they probably won't. Indjo says that it is believed fry inherit more traits from the mother, but genetically it should be 50/50. 

Apparently one second means a couple of hours XD! Here they are.

Lovely blue and white HMPK with awesome form (love the dorsal). I could breed her to my blue marble DT and start a HMPKDT line...


----------



## MattsBettas

Nice black girl. If I ever get a black hmpk male, I would breed them in a heartbeat. "Super black" is probably my favorite color in bettas.








And then there is the blue pineapple/yellow HMPKEE girl that I already posted.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

She is stunning. I love a nice wide dorsal on splendens. Be nice if she stayed a clean blue/white and didn't pick up any red wash in the future.

This was about the blue/white marble female.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you! Yea I hope her colors stay the same... You never know with marbles though.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Oh my gosh, those girls are all so beautiful! I really like that black one too! She's very pretty!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks!


----------



## logisticsguy

They are gorgeous Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

For home from my grandparents place to find another girl dead. God. That's seven in two months. I'm going to blame this one on stress. The girl that died was Lilith, a Cambodian crowntail that I received in Febuary from Sena Hansler. 

I am jarring the two females I have left, the hm from CJ (logisticsguy) and my unnamed vt.


----------



## Saphira101

Oh no! 

Good luck with the rest of your females!


----------



## Mahsfish

I hope all this bad luck stops Matt. Never something fish keeper want or wish on anybody. Good luck. 

And for mar and CJ I heard the flooding is getting better and water is normal again. Also heard about the heat haha. Good luck guys. 

I'm gonna check out a fish store down here in Portland. They have a "betta bar" just rows of bettas apparently. Gonna check them out. If there's anything too quality for cheap ill try my best to keep it alive on a journey home lol. I should be able to find a 1g container and some
Water conditioner and food for cheap that I can use at home.


----------



## Mar

Freaking 40celsius, my fish tanks were up to 86F without heaters, noooo :'c
Good luck! I hope you find something nice  and don't have too much trouble getting it back across the border lmao.
And yeah water quality is back up, thank god.


----------



## Mahsfish

It was 40-45 in Idaho. It feels dressing here In Portland now. It's only 20 and feels like 10


----------



## logisticsguy

Wow a betta bar, that would be cool to see. Anything over 40 would likely kill me as I whine when it hits 30. Good luck Mah you fish smuggler. Matt I can relate to how disappointing it can be when you try hard and still lose fish. I do not give much advise anymore as I feel like a hypocrite when I cant save my own fish sometimes. This morning I woke up to find Leroy dead. He was ok last night so Im trying to figure out what happened. The last 3 deaths Ive had were so sudden and not sure if I am missing something or just not paying enough attention to my fish. Today is my 1st anniversary as a betta fish keeper and I cant believe how much Ive learned and realizing how much more there is to learn about these crazy lil fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

Happy "anniversary"! I'm sorry Leroy died. Leroy was the blue/white butterfly, right? How is his spawn? 

Mah, I have experience in getting fish over the border. PM me for details, I don't want to post them in public lol even though I think it was legal. I know the exact store you are talking about, wetspot, and I am so jealous! I have been eying their albimarginata (by far my favorite wild) for months but 30$+shipping/transhipping is just too much.


----------



## MattsBettas

For sale at wetspot-







Great selection and prices. I wish they were in Alberta! Look at all of those wild species. Like the coccina for 6$ each! Or 6 imbellis for 18$.


----------



## logisticsguy

Thanks for showing me Wetspot Matt. Wow looking at their website Im blown away. The have long fin Panda corys omg. Must get them somehow! Also Betta Macrostoma oh must resist the urge to buy them right now. I could spend all day and a lot of money in that store.


----------



## MattsBettas

If you are going to get something from there let me know... I would definitely want to combine shipping with you and get the albis for a bit less lol. 

Macrostomas are awesome. They are apparently HUGE. Hmm... If you got and bred some... There's nothing in my 33L... And I'm sure you wouldn't sell them for a ridiculous price... Lol. Damn wilds.


----------



## logisticsguy

Im in Matt. I will need a week or so to sneak them into the budget. I believe Macrostomas are endangered in the wild and seldom shipped out of Asia. Definitely we should combine shipping. You would certainly get a pair if im lucky enough to successfully breed them. Oh man I wish that store was in Alberta too!


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol I would need to price things out and everything but it is something to think about. Macrostomas are rare and listed as vulnerable by the IUCN, so the more breeders the better. 

So how is Leroy's spawn?


----------



## logisticsguy

Leroys spawn never did work out. Poor guy just never could build a bubble and eggs were scattered everywhere with no bubbles. I took him out but nothing hatched it was very strange. I will touch base with you on an order ok? Albimarginata sure are beauties.


----------



## MattsBettas

Aw that's too bad. Definitely contact me with details if you decide to order something. 

If you get the long finned panda cories would you try spawning them?


----------



## Mahsfish

I'm going to wetspot tomorrow. Dunno what my parents are gonna say about me bringing some back though


----------



## MattsBettas

Need tips?


----------



## Mahsfish

The only ones I'd might bring back are the imbellis, or the "strawberry betta" or"red cherry betta" other than regular bettas. I like imbellis because I know I can keep them the same as my splendins. I know nothing on wilds plus the macrostomas are too much for be to risk brining back. 

Matt tip would be greatly appreciated. Any recommendations on what type I should bring back too. Thought anyone


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Betta channoides and albimarginata (strawberry/red cherry) are very easy species to care for. I always recommend them for people new to wild bettas. They are not particularly fussy about water conditions (though they do prefer the softer side of neutral) and are quite easy to sex so your chances of picking a male/female pair from a LFS tank are quite high. 

You could easily keep a pair of either species in a 5-10 gallon tank. They are extremely peaceful and really the only thing you have to watch is predation by the parents on their fry.


----------



## Mahsfish

The water in Calgary is on the hard side. Will I be okay if I just add black water extract or IAL tannins?


----------



## Mahsfish

What would you recommend it's $15 each for channoides or $32 for an indexed pair of albimarginata


----------



## Mahsfish

What is the difference between the two? They look the same to me on google


----------



## LittleBettaFish

If they are captive bred they should be okay in water that is harder. But they may not spawn. 

Albis and channoides are basically identical in behaviour and appearance so it really comes down to which one you prefer.


----------



## Mahsfish

Does anybody want some imbellis? I will probably get some for my self. But only like 3-4. But it is cheaper of I get 6. Of not that is fine. I will probably get 6 for $18 anyways


----------



## Mahsfish

Sorry. Changed my mind. I will just be getting 2 imbellis. A male and a female for transportation and keeping purposes aslant as it is legal. 

Now is the hard part. Keeping them alive. I won't have a heater or anything and my mom likes the room cool in the hotel and the car will around the same. Can I keep them in 0.5-1g jars with a little plant and then I will buy some food at the store? What else? I really need help


----------



## Mahsfish

I can decide now. Channoides or imbellis. I'd like channoides but the cost more and idk if they will be as hardy or easy to bring back. Please help


----------



## logisticsguy

Do you have a cooler that you could put the jars in. You could add a heat pack to the cooler maybe. I would choose channoides myself.


----------



## MattsBettas

According to the chart a pair of channoides would be 30$, and a pair of albis would be 32$, so they're fairly similar. Both species have pretty much the same care requirements.

When I brought three fish home from So Cal I had them in their cups in a cooler.


----------



## MattsBettas

I MIGHT BE GETTING MY SHELVES TODAY! :-D

I'm so excited.


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay how should I package them Matt? Like how you did. That's the way I will since it worked for you. I will get the albis and IBC says they are tolerable of water while channoides aren't as much. Or It will be the imbellis. Which ever like more


----------



## MattsBettas

Get both? Lol. It was simple, really. I kept them in their cup, put them in a small cooler, stuffed it with towels to keep them stable, then drove across the border.


----------



## Mahsfish

Store was amazing but I got none. Imbellis were really youn and I couldn't find the others. You aren't allowed to take pictures but it was Feds best LFS I've ever gone to.


----------



## MattsBettas

Aww that's a shame. At least it was a nice store.

Edit: I got my shelves yesterday. I will be setting them up shortly. I got them for 40$, which, me and my Grandpa figured out, is cheaper then building them ourselves.


----------



## logisticsguy

40 bucks is a good deal. Think of the extra space you will have to work with. When your set up you should post some pics.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'll post pics.

Oh yea... I'll have room for a few more tanks. I'm thinking I'll limit my self to the sorority and six boys, and of course spawns and the fry. That way I can easily manage things and focus on breeding. 

In the distant future I would love a small shrimp tank, and a couple species of wild bettas (I'm thinking channoides/albimarginata and a splendens species, which an lfs carries sometimes).


----------



## Mahsfish

Nice Matt. My parent won't let me get anymore tanks due to room and so no racks for me. But I will be breeding guppies for show now.


----------



## MattsBettas

Guppies?


----------



## Mahsfish

Yup guppies. I've bred guppies ever since I was a little kid but with no final goal. I do have a nice fancy snakeskin pair and I am going to breed them and cull to help with my knowledge on genetics and help with bettas


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh. I have a couple of guppies. Dot kill the culls, give them away!


----------



## Mahsfish

Yes. Likely LFS


----------



## MattsBettas

I have my shelves and should have them all set up tomorrow! Yay lol. 

I did a head count and I am not at 10 bettas, with three coming.


----------



## Mahsfish

Nice. Are you gonna attempt breeding again. My fry aren't looking too good. Or so I hear. I know they are small but they are countable size. My cousin who's watching them said he counts 6. If there's only six ill be sad caus there was 20 when I brought them, but eh 6 ain't bad I'm gonna make up for my neglect when I get them back


----------



## MattsBettas

Yup. I have two spawns planned for August and one for the fall when I get the right female.


----------



## Mahsfish

Nice. Hopefully you'll be more successful with this one. Are they the ones that were part of the "surprise" way back


----------



## MattsBettas

Yup. They're nice fish. I'm still waiting for three girls to arrive.


----------



## Mahsfish

That's great


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I tossed an algae wafer in the sorority for my Pleco, and my swordtail ate the entire thing and is now as bloated as a balloon. Stupid fish. 

Also, I have my shelves set up and am in the process of getting my tanks on them! Pics to come.


----------



## MattsBettas

My shelves are now all set up and have my tanks on them. I still have space for two 5g and two 10g though. Maybe more if I pushed it! Sorry, no pictures 'till tomorrow. 

The swordtail is still bloated but I saw her pooping so thats a good sign. 

I should be getting my new girls soon, waiting for a reply. I'm so excited!

And as of today this journal is officially three months (a quarter of a year) old and as of this post 70 pages long! Lol. Just felt like pointing that out.


----------



## Saphira101

Saphira need picturesssssss... :demented:


----------



## MattsBettas

Ok, fine...


----------



## MattsBettas

They aren't quite how I want them, but they are close.


----------



## Mahsfish

Looks good. I want to get that but parents say I got no room. Mommy said that if I sell the 50 I can tho.  I don't want to though. I getting jacks tomorrow


----------



## MattsBettas

What species do you own and how many tanks do you have?


----------



## Mahsfish

I currently have 4 tanks and 6 jars. 

5 gallon, guppies
10 gallon, convict fry
20 gallon, betta fry
50 gallon, soon split between Con pair and bgjd pair (only bgjd in 1 week)


----------



## MattsBettas

Ah. How do you keep the jars warm and stuff? And what is a bgjd? I know nothing about cichlids lol.


----------



## Mahsfish

I've got them in a tub with warm water circulating through


----------



## Mahsfish

Bgjd stands for blue gene jack dempsey


----------



## Syriiven

Nice shelves Matt =D 

The only thing I'd suggest to keep in mind is that on the lower levels where there's not so much natural light, they tend to remain more active with a neighbour than being alone. Did Styxx wonders when I moved him next to FishBeastie.


----------



## MattsBettas

That's a crayfish on the bottom. Lol. Thanks for all your help!


----------



## Saphira101

I used to have a crayfish. He was a great pet, but sadly died during a difficult molt.


----------



## Mahsfish

One betta died but I guess it's okay cause it was never gonna be bred. I'd rather it be that one than mine from CJ. My feeder way overages my cichlids but they are all alive. Tons of wc tomorrow though


----------



## MattsBettas

Which one died?


----------



## Mahsfish

Big red. I'm thinking it was from old age because he was getting lazy and sluggish like it black pk. He was in his own heated 10 gal


----------



## MattsBettas

So I went to aquarium central, and despite Sena Hansler's negative review, I was really impressed.

They had Betta smaragdina but they were not for sale as a precaution because one of them was recovering form some sort of disease. The smaragdina needed to colour up a bit but they were still beautiful. They were eight bucks each... A really good price. 

Their stock was reasonably priced. They also had a good selection, smaller then big Als but much less expensive. They had rabbit snails in all sorts of colours (most of them were 4$), lots of shrimp (decent prices), and lots of other awesome things. They carried hikari frozen foods, and I bought some brine shrimp because I am not nervous to use hikari food (much better sanitization practices). Oh, and their frozen food was almost half the price of petsmart's. 

Oh, and I also want to add that while I was there, one employee, a young woman, was talking to another employee about the temperature of the betta bowls (which were large for a petstore). She was noticeably angry because their bowls weren't 76 degrees... Awesome. 

So yea... I will be back.


----------



## eden000

*waves* I'm Canadian too!
Love reading your fish journal. I very recently got into the hobby, and can't get more tanks other than for my 1 betta right now, so I figure I'll read lots of fish journals and live through others' experiences xD


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying it. 

I love feeding my fish frozen brine shrimp. Most of them absolutely love it.


----------



## Sena Hansler

Glad to know they decided to get better employees. The two that were there when i went... And please remember I went last YEAR... Were horrendous. Not like I can go to Edmonton again anyways.


----------



## MattsBettas

It's like... On the other side of the city for me, but we were in the area so I might as well have stopped by. I'm sure you'll be in the city sometime (even if it's years away)... And if you are near there it might not hurt to give it a second chance.

Oh, and on an unrelated note, I got a filter (aquaclear 20) and a heater (50w) for free from my cousin, who has a tank he hasn't used in years. I might get the tank later. I always need more heaters and filters!


----------



## MattsBettas

Cleaned up both the heater and the filter, both of which are functional. I just need to test the heater. 

And I'm starting to get really interested in rabbit snails... I saw some at aquarium central and they seem pretty awesome. They like the same temperature as bettas and are apparently good tankmates for them.


----------



## MattsBettas

I should be getting my new girls today! So excited!!! I'm just waiting for a response so we know where to meet.

Edit- As soon as I posted I got the message!


----------



## MattsBettas

Got em. They are beautiful, healthy, and awesome! Now I just have to get them home...


----------



## Fenghuang

Yay! Congratulations, Matt! Pictures?


----------



## MattsBettas

Soon... There's still three hours till I'm home. Then I guarantee them!


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm home, and everyone arrived safely! Here's how I pack fish that are being transported in a car-


----------



## MattsBettas

Acclimatizing to the qt jars-


----------



## MattsBettas

They all ate five NLS tonight! Awesome! The black one seems aggressive, flaring at another girl all the time, the blue grizzle has a personality all her own... I've never seen such a hyper fish. The EE kinda just does her own thing. I'll get to know her personality soon. 

My mom's new favorite fish is the blue grizzle girl. She's one of my favorites too.

I am being so careful with them lol... I spent two hours acclimating them (I swear I have a life) and they all have a little chip of IAL.


----------



## Senshine

It's kinda funny that the black girl is flaring  she was really active while she was here but never really flared that I saw. My black female is pretty aggressive too though.. I was almost bit by her today! I love how feisty they are :3
I'm glad to see that they are all safe and doing well


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Matt that's great!
Sorry I am at a Tim Hortons so I have Internet but we are camping so I won't be on much. Going home on Sunday.


----------



## Mar

Pretty girls! Can't wait to see them in their tank!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. I can't wait either!

Nice to see you, Shae.


----------



## MattsBettas

Did all the water changes today and decided that instead of doing a 100% water change on the jars every other day I will do a 50% change every day. Then I don't have to acclimate them back in. 

I'm going away for ten days on Sunday and I think I have someone who can care for the fish. I have lots of plans for when I get home, I'm going to put a filter on my two HMPK boys five gallon and begin cycling it, I'm going to buy a couple rabbit snails (maybe a bit later) and hopefully start breeding them, I have decided on getting a nerite for my DT's chi to control the algae, and I have to order a couple of things for the spawns I am planning for later on in August. I'm also going to meet up with Shae (BB123) and trade worm cultures... Lol.

My aquabid girls are doing really well and seem to be doing just fine in my hard water. They all eat like pigs.

I found these little... Things... (Some sort of tiny, jumpy invert) In my green water cultures, so I added 1/4 of a milliliter of paraguard to hopefully kill them off.


----------



## dramaqueen

Eww. I hope you get rid of them.


----------



## MattsBettas

Had my fish sitter come over and gave her instructions. Ugh. It's such a relief to have someone taking care of your fish when you are away. So now all my fish will get food and the jars will get water changes every second day. I'm still nervous, but much less.


----------



## logisticsguy

Its nice to get away sometimes but Im like you Matt always a lil bit worried. Great you have a fish sitter. Your new girls look marvelous. Where are you going?


----------



## MattsBettas

Hawaii. I'm so excited. Well, we've been looking foreward to this for well over a year now lol.

Ironically fish make vacations/trips, which are supposed to help you get away from stress, more stressful. 

Oh and in August we're going to Banff because my dad has meetings and it's always really nice. That reminds me, CJ, do you have any extra plants? ;-)


----------



## logisticsguy

Hawaii omg that is the best. We were there in 1997 so awesome I never wanted to come home. We are lucky to be close to Banff and go hiking often in area, its one of the most beautiful places on earth in my biased opinion. 

I have a lot of extra duckweeds and some of the un killable hornwort. My plants havnt been doing great I think I may be way under fertilizing them. Im nuts about growing Venus Flytraps now. Too bad they are non aquatic lol but I keep them around my aquariums cuz they love the humidity.

You have a great vacation young man and check in here once in awhile during the trip.


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## MattsBettas

I will, don't worry. I plan to be on at least twice a day. Quite a few people we know have been and they said the exact thing... That it's a hard place to leave. What island did you go to? 

I completely agree with you... Banff is definatly one of the most beautiful places in the world, I'm lucky I "have" to go almost every year... Lol. I was just in Canmore which is a lot less exciting but still an awesome little town. I bike, run, and hike a lot during the summer and the hikes in and around Banff are always super enjoyable. 

Extra duckweed, you say? I might need to see if we can stop by and grab some for the spawn tanks. Speaking of spawning... It's only a month away and I am already super excited (the other thing about trips is that you wouldn't dare spawn when you know your going away for a week). I'm still waiting for that pm from you (Remember? Lol) so I can actually get the fish to GROW this time.


----------



## logisticsguy

We were in Maui for 3 weeks it was terrific!! Oh that's right I forgot. I will get to you by the time your back. My system is really just theories of stuff I learned from others mixed in with my own research and supplements from aquaculture industry. Its not power growing it is more like optimal growing and making overall health the focal point especially in the first month of life. 

My family is off to the mountains next week for our annual camping trip. We were going last month but the flood wiped out our campsite and just about everything else in Kananaskis 2 days before our trip. This time out west of Banff.

Which Island are you going to be at in Hawaii? Oh man your going to enjoy this trip.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I have never been outside of Alberta unless of course you want to count the camping trip I went on once that was just across the border of Alberta into Saskatewan.
My family can't afford to go anywhere. I want to travel so bad!!


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## MattsBettas

Shae eventually you will be able to travel, your smart and are bound to get a good job. 

I'm going to Maui too. Any things in particular that we should do?

After I get back I'm going to figure out my dads big dslr and try to get some real photos up of my fish. Might also post any really good photos from Hawaii.


----------



## BeautifulBetta123

I am going to stop reading this thread for a bit.. At least until you quit talking about traveling! Because I wish I could go so bad!


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## MattsBettas

Lol I'll let you know. Until Monday most of it will be fish related though.


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## Mahsfish

I got a story about Hawaii haha. Just gotta finish dinner first.


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## MattsBettas

Lookin forward to it...


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## Mahsfish

Okay well my fully went to Waikiki a couple years ago. But the first day I got food poisoning an had a terrible stomach ache and the runs for about 3 days and no energy. The 4th day I was still sick but feeling better. That day we had decided to go to Haunama Bay to snorkel. It was absolutely amazing. Due to my "obsession" of fish I felt so much better and never wanted to stop. 


I would definitely find a place to go snorkeling if I were you. You won't regret it. I know it's different ilands that you and are are going to but also try to find like the little markets they have set up on the street if you can. Really interesting and cheap stuff. 

Another thing I found cool was that on the side walks and in the little markets they would have little ponds and stuff with like wild guppies and mollies and all these cool fish. 

It was by far my most favorite trip.


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## MattsBettas

Oh wow, that must have sucked a lot. Yea we've already bought snorkels, costco had them for a really good price, and I think that is what I am looking forward too most. 

I want to check out the petstores and stuff too.


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## Mahsfish

Oh yeah. The mom a pop ones are the best. I went to one there and they had some really nice flowerhorns. And some other really cool fish. Huge selection of bettas as well


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## BeautifulBetta123

Sorry this is really un fish related and hope you don't mind me posting this but I can't PM a pic for some reason but here is a pic of me and my horse at the last show. We won the only class we could go in. She kicked all the older more expierienced horses butts man! That m baby girl! (She is two.)
Anyways she is soo good and when I got her she was wild and had never been handled.
I saddled her for the first time a few days before we left camping and I should be riding her with in two weeks.
Her name is Saarah (S-are-uh) it means princess in Arabic.
So this is the thing I spend all my time with when I am not with my fish, or chatting with you guys lol.


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## logisticsguy

Oh wow she is beautiful! Her name is perfect she is a princess. Horses are so smart. Your doing great with her she is training very fast. That is awesome she won her class!


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## MattsBettas

That's the first time I've actually seen the horse you talk so much about! She looks great! What class did you enter in?

Btw I don't mind at all. Learning more about what people like to do besides fish is really cool IMO.


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## BeautifulBetta123

We were in showmanship, so I had to lead her and complete a pattern, we were judged on how I presented her, how she behaves, ect.
The day befor wi spent hours washing, grooming, and whitening her tail and socks... 
We actually went in two classes but one was costume... Let me get the pic of us


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## MattsBettas

Looking forward to it!


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## BeautifulBetta123

We were dressed up as the sun and placed third. I had to hand make the suns on either side of her and they took hours! Then they chipped really bad and peeled. They only lasted this show then went in the garbage, oh well they did their job well.
Lets just say red skinny jeans that are too small are not my thing...


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## MattsBettas

Picturessssssssssss


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## BeautifulBetta123

The pic is being stubborn and not leading very well...
Sorry I will try post it later


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## MattsBettas

Flight leaves in 20 minutes. Have to go now but I will check in in a couple hours though!


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## Mahsfish

Wow just found out I'm going to Chicago in a week. I'm stoked. Only problem is finding a person to watch my fish again these thing sure are a pain in the you know what. Haha. 

My bettas I use feeders, my cichlids ill try to use automatics feeder. But I have to pray that they don't hit down the divider or some fishy is gonna get pretty beat up. Then my guppies ill use a week feeder. That leaves the baby bettas. Hopefully I can have someone come over to watch them. I really don't wanna move the tanks again


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## BeautifulBetta123

Yay! Here is the pic, don't laugh, okay never mind we look funny I know. Hahahahahahahahahahah


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## BeautifulBetta123

🌞You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy when sky's are grey....🌞
Lol


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## ao

i thought that song was strictly australian!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## MattsBettas

Omg hahaha. It doesn't look bad... Just funny. 

That song is definitely not just Austrailian... When I was little I heard it all the time. Lol.

I'm in Hawaii. It took fourteen hours, and yesterday was a twenty hour day, but I'm here and I'm not complaining! Our flights went great. It's so warm and humid and pretty much the complete opposite of Alberta hahaha.


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## Mahsfish

Make sure to take some pics and share.


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## MattsBettas




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## MattsBettas

Went to some tidepools and a couple beaches. From the edge of the tidepools (it was a volcanic shelf type thing that stretched into the ocean a bit) we saw two giant turtles swimming around, hunting. It was so cool! Later we're going snorkeling around a neat little reef.


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## ao

MattsBettas said:


> That song is definitely not just Austrailian... When I was little I heard it all the time. Lol.
> .


*semi mind blown*
Was it used for the golden circle ad?


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## Mahsfish

Welp.  Down to 5 fry. I'm stopping with the spawning till I have more time for bettas. I'm gone again. I'm not even going to try bringing them to someone's house. I'm leaving them here and putting in a 14 day feeding block and removing it when I get back. I'm transfering all fry to my 5g right now.


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## Mahsfish

Oops. Miss counted. I have 8. Still disappointed. All are transferred now. But one did die


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## MattsBettas

So today we went up the volcano. It was awesome. Driving THROUGH a clouted was neat... The cliffs were terrifying though. Some spots didn't even have a guard rail -_-.

I'm also thinking about making an album with my "dream fish". Mostly just for me but I think it would be awesome.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Aww man I want to see giant turtles!! You are making me sooo jealous!!!


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## Mahsfish

Speaking of turtles. When I was in Hawaii we drove to this beach and the sea turtles were on it. It was so cool. They had people monitoring the each and making sure nobody touches them or anything. But I was so cool. They were pretty big too.


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## Mahsfish

Here's a pic of one


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## MattsBettas

Yea that looks kinda like the ones we saw. I'm not going to lie, they were super awesome. We could watch them hunt in the reef and it was amazing. We're going snorkeling tommorow and hopefully we'll see some!


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## logisticsguy

That is great Matt! It is a wonderful place. Tomorrow morning our family is off to camp way deep in the mountains far from cell or internet service. Lots of hiking and photos. Glad your having a blast talk next week.


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## MattsBettas

Ok, have a good trip! So when does the new girl get shipped to Canada, and when will you get her?


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## MattsBettas

Went snorkeling today. Definitely one of the best things ever. You know how you go to the saltwater section in petstores so you can drool over their shockingly vibrant colours (or am I the only one?)? It was like that... But you were swimming with the fish, and the fish were usually a lot bigger. We saw all sorts of fish... Most of which I don't know the name of but they were all awesome. The best part by far was when I was just looking around and a turtle swam past me. I followed it, of course. It sort of nestled into some coral and sat there for five minutes while I watched it (I made sure to always keep my distance), then it swam around and I swam "with" it... I stayed a few meters away and respected it and it didnt mind. I have to say, it was probably one of the coolest things I have ever done. Seeing them was one thing. Swimming with them, though... That's another. 

I really wish I had the underwater camera with me. I will try to get pics and share them when I go again, but no guarantees of any turtles.


----------



## Fenghuang

Glad you to hear you're enjoying your vacation. I'm stuck in boring old New Jersey. I would love to go to Hawaii where it's warm and sunny and not raining everyday. xD


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## BeautifulBetta123

I rode my horse for the very first time today! So I have decided to spam you!
Yay it was the greatest feeling ever knowing this was my horse an how much she trusts me is amazing. She didn't buck just looked to me for guidance it was truely awesome!


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## MattsBettas

That must be so exciting for you! Awesome.

I have heard from both my fish sitter (who is awesome and I am so thankful for) and my gramma that my yellow/blue pineapple ee girl isn't normal... Apparently she is a bit inactive and has a growth on her head... Ugh. I'm like 3000 miles away (ok, maybe a bit less) and I have no way of diagnosing let alone treating her... Dang. It's going to cost me 90$ to "replace" her and I was set on breeding her... I'm praying she'll be fine until Tuesday.


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## Fenghuang

I'm so sorry, Matt. /: I hope it turns out to be nothing serious and she will be okay.


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## MattsBettas

Thanks :/. It's just frustrating 'cause there's nothing I can do... It's out of my control.


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## Fenghuang

Focus on what you can do. You are on a beautiful island. Enjoy the rest of your vacation and stay positive. Maybe she'll turn around or even it'll end up being nothing. You don't know anything at this point and you have to wait until you get home anyway, so don't worry yourself sick and let this ruin your trip with your family.


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## MattsBettas

Lol believe me, _nothing_ can stop me from enjoying this. Including a bit of rain. 

Saw two more turtles snorkeling today, along with a ton of neat fish. 

So we're going to be hit by tropical storm Flossie sometime tonight... It shouldn't be too bad, just lots of rain and wind (where I'm staying usually gets rain 3-4 times a year... Lol). We're under a tropical storm warning and the county is on emergency prepardness or something. I'm not worried though, and, well, I've never experienced a tropical storm before. It'll be exciting. Hopefully I'll be able to get on tommorow but I may not be able too. Like I said before, I'm not worried at all. It shouldn't be anything _too_ major, and we'll stay safe.


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## logisticsguy

Wow that is exciting Matt. What a terrific holiday! Just back from my mountain trek where we came face to face with a grizzly bear with cubs. Stayed calm but was soo scared. We climbed a mountain and Im so beat thank goodness my daughter is so fit and helped me out, I can hardly move tonight so sore. Cheering for your sick girl!


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## MattsBettas

Ugh. Left Maui yesterday (Or today depending on where you are...Stupid time zones). I'm in Seattle right now so I get to see my fish in less then three hours! I'll miss Hawaii but will be happy to be home. 

The tropical storm ended up hitting us pretty hard for a few hours... Nothing serious happened and it was nice the next day. 

Oh, and yesterday we were in Walmart... The bettas were... Well... Not too good, and there was one poor little guy that was in an inch of water. I may or may not have filled up his cup with clean water and stress coat. Lol. 

And CJ, seeing grizzly bears sounds terrifying but awesome! 

Sorry for the ramble. Hopefully it makes sense. I'm _really_ tired.


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## MattsBettas

I'm home! Pleased to report that everyone is alive, I'll just have a busy day taking care of tanks and stuff. 

The blue grizzle/yellow girl is perfectly healthy... I don't know what my fish sitter and Grandma were talking about lol. There is definitely no pink growth. Crazy people -_- (JK)

However, my old vt girl (oldest fish I have at the time... Will have had her for two years in a couple of months) has what appears to be mouth rot and bloat. Great. Another disease I have never dealt with. It does appear to be minor though, and I am confident I will be able to fix her up.


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## Saphira101

Good luck, Matt! I hope that you can fix her up.


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## MattsBettas

Thanks. At the moment I have her in water with 2 tsp/g of Epsom salts and lots of ial, and I'll be adding kanaplex soon.


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## MattsBettas

Guppy in the 20g (former sorority) dropsied and was put down today. Swordtail is next. I don't know what I'm going to do. I might just have to black and restart, which would break my heart since it's been established for what... Four (?) years now. Except that would leave me with a homeless BN pleco. Ugh.


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## Saphira101

So sorry Matt! You've been having to deal with too many diseases lately. Hope things get better!


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## Mahsfish

IME dropsie isn't too contagious unless the fish are weak. You should be alright hopefully


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## MattsBettas

Believe me, I've dealt with dropsy enough to know how to deal with it. You have to remember that dropsy is a condition, not a disease, and the the disease that causes it may very well be contagious. I'm not taking chances. I would rather go through sanitizing and cycling the tank then watching my valuable and quite high quality girls die.


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## Mahsfish

Oh. Well like I said in my experience it hasn't be bad. When I've felt with it I just isolate the other fish and the rest are fine. I've only gotten it twice.


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## Mahsfish

Good luck


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## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> Believe me, I've dealt with dropsy enough to know how to deal with it. You have to remember that dropsy is a condition, not a disease, and the the disease that causes it may very well be contagious. I'm not taking chances. I would rather go through sanitizing and cycling the tank then watching my valuable and quite high quality girls die.


Exactly. The underlying cause needs to be eliminated. Dropsy is fluid retention symptom of another underlying illness which shows as abdominal swelling leading to pine coned scales the symptoms are the result of internal organ failure and the subsequent fluid buildup. Underlying causes could be anything, bacteria, parasites ect. who knows so full break down and scrub job is the way to go. Once organs fail its nearly impossible to get them back to health. Ive tried hard and never brought a betta back from this fully. Edema happens to people too and is also the result of an underlying problem.


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## MattsBettas

Yup. I've tried and tried and tried and have never been able to save a fish from dropsy... IMO/E once they pinecone chances are they can't be saved and it's time to think about getting out the clove oil. 

My old vt girl is still doing well despite not having half her mouth. What a fighter. She still eats well and still attacks the pellets... That really makes me hopeful. Got kanaplex in her jar today, hopefully it will start to heal up.

Got a filter on my two hmpk boys tank today. Yay!

With the 20g even if I want to bleach it it's not my choice... The tank is technically my brothers, so I would have to get his permission. However, even if he says no, He can't stop me from not stocking it. But that would leave me with no place to put my girls. Sigh.


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## Mahsfish

Hopefully you can fix everything up Matt. When my girl had the fungus attack on her side and looked like she had no hope she still bounced back. I hope this can happen for you. Except the whole no hope part. 
Good luck with the dropsie. I've experienced the same. Once they pine one its been lights out for them. But my other fish seem to have been fine. Good luck


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## Mahsfish

Well my uncle just told be that one of my bettas have died. He said yellow topped jar but idk which one exactly. I think is my old vt girl though. Sad, but at least it wasn't my hms


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## MattsBettas

Oh man, it's been almost a week! 

My vt with mouth rot is still alive and kickin'. Ial and kanaplex are helping but I bumped the Epsom salts up to 3tsp/g yesterday because her bloat won't go down. Her mouth looks a bit better. She's definitely to cured yet but she is slowly improving.

Haven't broke down the 20g yet or talked to my brother about it. It would leave me with a lone BN pleco that I have no idea what to do with. I would probably qt it with antibiotics and paraguard to (hopefully) kill whatever is in there but then I would have to add it back in there because the 20g is the only tank I have running that's big enough for it. Or I could just give it to a petstore. We'll see.

I should be getting some plants from darkangel on here in a couple of weeks too! I'm getting them for a great price and with live plants, more is _always_ (ok, maybe not if they leave the fish no swimming space. But you get the point.) better.


----------



## Mahsfish

I'd love to take the BP if we were closer. Too bad. Sounds like there hope at the end of the tunnel. Glad things are looking better


----------



## Mahsfish

BN*


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea. I'll probably just qt for a month+ and throw a few different meds at him to kill whatever is in there (will treat for bacterial and parasitical causes).


----------



## MattsBettas

In the process of breaking down and sterilizing the 20g. I've already scraped, scrubbed, and, in the case of the gravel, boiled everything ALONG with a 99% isopropyl alcohol spray/soak... And I still have to bleach everything and boil the gravel again. I'm yet to start on the heater, filter, and decorations lol.

If this does not kill everything, I give up.


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## MattsBettas

Since its been four months since I started the journal, I figure it would be good to repost and edit my original post on this thread just to let you all know where I'm at now. 




> So, be been meaning to start a journal. I really should stop commenting so much on some other members journals lol. I'll try to get lots of pics but technology is a pain in the butt and won't let that happen at the moment, which is very frustrating.
> 
> It sounds like I have a lot of pets, but when you think about the fact that everything but the male bettas and the crayfish (and my lizard obviously lol) can be kept together, its not THAT bad. So, I have:
> -six male bettas *Seven male bettas*
> -six female bettas *Five female bettas*
> -one self cloning crayfish (more to come... Obviously)
> -two african dwarf frogs *One african dwarf frog*
> -three male guppies *zero male guppies*
> -one endler *No endlers*
> -two female guppies *No female guppies*
> -four shrimp *No shrimp*
> -one pleco
> -one swordtail *No swordtail*
> -way to many ramshorn snails.
> -and one leopard gecko *Two leopard geckos... But just 'till the end of August (then I'll only have my girl)*
> 
> And that doesn't include fry. I swear it isn't as bad as it sounds. Since this is a betta forum, I'll tell you all a bit more about my bettas. I'm horrible with names, so not all of them have names. My five males, who all live in divided tanks, are:
> 
> - Spike, a beautiful halfmoon purchased from logisticsguy. He will be bred in the future, but right now he is just a spoilt little boy who (and I'm kind of ashamed to admit this) I had to put on a diet. logisticsguy keeps his fish well fed and me making sure he is full sure doesn't help. He lives in a divided, heated, and filtered five gallon tank with:
> -*Deceased* My unnamed black traditional plakat. I bought this guy as a female from petland for a grand total of three dollars. He's one of my favorites. He will also be bred in the future, to Freckles.
> -*Deceased*Jackson, a white and blue super delta. He lives in a divided ten gallon with Xanthus and Ares. I got all three of them from Sena Hansler when she had to rehome. Jackson got on to Xanthus's side somehow two days after I got him, and I was at school at the time and I did not know how long he had been in there but I took him out, put him back on his side, and even though at the time he was bleeding and his fins were tattered, with clean, warm water and ial, he is making a great recovery.
> - *Deceased*Xanthus, a yellow butterfly halfmoon also from Sena Hansler. This guy has a lot of personality. He did not get damaged nearly as much as Jackson in their fight.
> -Ares, a dragonscale with red fins (armadillo), who has already produced over 200 fry. He is currently in the spawn tank with Jess, hopefully I will get a nice spawn.
> -My unnamed ee. I bought this guy as a female from petland (a new employee thought all bettas were the same and gave me this $25 fish as an exchange for my $6 crowntail who passed shortly after I purchased him). I know better then to trust what the petstore says, so I looked at him and he looked pretty female to me. Lets just say that he is an awful sorority member. He will soon go in the divided ten gallon (Ares, Jackson, Xanthus).
> -*Unnamed red/white marble "halfmoon"- Rescued this guy almost two months ago from petsmart. He had an advanced case of fin rot which he has successfully recovered from.*
> -*Unnamed blue/white marble double tail- Got this guy all the way in Southern California at a petco and got my grandparents to drive him home. He used to bite his fins but that habit was easily stopped (knock on wood). I plan on breeding this boy to my blue grizzle/marble halfmoon plakat later this month. *
> -*Unnamed blue pineapple/yellow halfmoon plakat- Also from petco. This boy has one of the coolest colours I have ever seen, and I will hopefully breed him later this month to my other blue pineapple/yellow halfmoon plakat elephant ear.*
> *Unnamed orange dalmation halfmoon plakat- Also from petco. This boy is quite large but a big scarcely cat. He has quite good form and I would like to breed him in the future.*
> 
> And the girls:
> 
> *Deceased*Lilith- The fourth fish I got from Sena, a Cambodian crowntail. She is the alpha.
> Freckles- The girl I chose from logisticsguy (CJ). She's a nice marble. She will be bred with my black plakat sometime. Spikes sister.
> *Deceased*Jess- A dragonscale geno halfmoon with nice, yellow fins. I got her at petland, somehow. She is currently in the spawn tank with Ares.
> *Deceased*Unnamed ct girl- I really love this girl. She has a unique blue-orange color, but she is really beat up and currently in treatment for a unidentifiable external parasite.
> *Deceased*Unnamed white pla kat girl- Another petland find. A real sweetheart in the sorority.
> Unnamed red veiltail girl- My oldest fish at the time. Lots of personality. I can't go near the water in the sorority without getting bit lol. *Currently battling (and winning!) mouth rot and bloat.*
> -*Unnamed blue grizzle/marble halfmoon plakat- Got this girl from catw0man in June. A healthy, big, energetic girl who is full of personality. Looking forward to breeding her to my unnamed blue marble doubletail later this month. *
> -*Unnamed blue pineapple/yellow halfmoon plakat elephant ear- Also from catw0man. Breeding this girl to my blue pineapple/yellow halfmoon plakat later this month as well.*
> -*Unnamed super black halfmoon plakat- Also from catw0man. This fish is the darkest black I've ever seen, and I would love to breed her bit I probably will never get to because I would need a super black hmpk male for that.*
> So yea. My self cloning crayfish is berried *(Unsuccessful)*, my lizard is old and happy, etc. I will post updates on the spawn and make a real spawn log if its successful. Thanks for reading!


After over two hours I'm almost finished with the twenty. Lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

I finished sterilizing (sanitization and sterilization are two different things, incase you were wondering) the 20, and it's still drying out. My gosh gravel takes a long time. I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and make it a full npt. I've been wanting to do it for a while and this is the perfect time- It's empty and I have plants on their way from one member and if all goes to plan I'll be picking up some duckweed and hornwort from CJ in a week... I would just need to order a few things and I would be all ready to go. 

My girl is not doing too well. Her mouth hasn't gotten worse but hasn't improved a ton, her bloating hasn't gone down, and she has what I think is columnaris destroying her anal fin as I wright this (this morning it was a little piece of fuzz. Now, it's a hole). I have no choice but to extend her kanaplex course (I've already gone over the ten days... But she'll die without it). Lucky me she's a fighter. 

And I got a zebra nerite for the chi 'cuz there's algae. Boy do they do a great job.


----------



## MattsBettas

Just put down the pleco. It was fine this morning, then I found it rolling around in qt with signs of dropsy. I'm gonna guess that it had what all the others had but whatever it was took longer to manifest in the pleco.


----------



## Saphira101

MattsBettas said:


> Just put down the pleco. It was fine this morning, then I found it rolling around in qt with signs of dropsy. I'm gonna guess that it had what all the others had but whatever it was took longer to manifest in the pleco.


That really sucks Matt. So sorry.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea. I don't mind as much as if it was a betta, but it still sucks. At least I don't have to find a home for it or risk reintroducing disease.


----------



## MattsBettas

Got a text from my fish sitter last night saying that the female died. Ugh. 

Good news, though, is that I might stop by Logisticguy's and pick up some plants (and, now that I lost a girl, a couple fish for the sorority).


----------



## Mar

Oh, so you'll be in Calgary?
And sorry to hear about your female  
But at least you have freed up space for your sorority! 
Do you have any pics of your sorority tank? Don't remember seeing any.


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## MattsBettas

Yup, we were in Banff since Sunday and now we're in Lethbridge, we'll be driving home on Sunday and stopping at CJ's for fish stuff lol. 

I actually don't have any pics of my sorority seeing as it doesn't exist anymore and the tank is sitting dry on our kitchen floor 'cuz I sterilized it and letting it dry is always a good idea for quite a few reasons. I'm sad she died, she was my oldest betta.


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## MattsBettas

So, I was about to put in an order of plants, and of course the plant that I wanted most (water sprite- not even a rare or difficult to propagate plant) went out of stock. Of course :roll:.

I get to go home and see my fish tomorrow, and I am stopping at Logisticsguy's to pick up some stuff. I'm mostly just excited to see the giant bettas though lol .


----------



## logisticsguy

I just want to say that was a lot fun visiting with you Matt. We could talk fish for hours!


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## MattsBettas

I 100% agree. I wish I could have stayed longer but it was still great. 

So, for those of you that don't know, I got two new fish and plants from logisticsguy! Pics to come.


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## MattsBettas

One of the fish-







(I went back for this one. Lol.)


----------



## BettaLover1313

Wow! She is very pretty! Love her coloring!


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## Syriiven

She's beautiful =)


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you both! I also got this girl, who is really nice and has that awesome, simple cellophane coloring.-


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I'm conditioning my pairs, and today is the first day they get to see each other. My HMPK pair are very receptive to each other and that makes me happy, and the HMDT boy is very excited to see the HMPK girl but she isn't too receptive. It's so cool to watch the behavior though!


----------



## MattsBettas

It's like a mini koi! Lol. That's the cello girl I got yesterday in her (temporary) jar.


----------



## Mahsfish

Cool. Nice looking fish Matt. The cello reminds me of my cello "female" that I got off CJ. It turned out to be a cool marbling male. 

I sold 3/4 of my bettas today. Just got a hm female left. Need to make room


----------



## MattsBettas

To who?


----------



## Mahsfish

Sold to a lady I found on kijiji


----------



## dramaqueen

Good luck with the spawn, Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Spawn*s*. Lol. Thanks DQ!


----------



## dramaqueen

Oh! Lol thanks for correcting me.


----------



## MattsBettas

:-D

So, my girls are fattening up nicely. Makes me happy. Would still like them to be more receptive to my males though.

And I bought the tank off from my brother with 15$ and a gift card I'll never use. Not a bad deal lol. I'm planning on NPT'ing it and moving my girls in there... I'm excited!


----------



## logisticsguy

Awesome. Good deal Matt! Yeah sometimes females are not very receptive sometimes to the arranged marriage thing lol. Hopefully as you get them further conditioned to each other the girls will warm up to the boys more. Good luck Im really looking forward to your spawns.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks CJ! I just had them floating in their males tanks and ey are getti better and better each day... I'm hoping to spawn on Sunday, if they are ready.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ordered plants yesterday. Water sprite, wisteria, hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis', jungle Val's, amazon sword, and rotala. 

I was going to breed today but some stuff came up. Nothing bad or anything, just a surprise. I hate surprises. Spawns should be Friday instead.


----------



## MattsBettas

I want my chi to look like this-


----------



## MattsBettas

Got the dirt for my NPT. Miracle grow organic potting mix.


----------



## ashleylyn

MattsBettas said:


> I want my chi to look like this-
> View attachment 196138


Oh my gosh, I love that! :shock:


----------



## MattsBettas

I know, right!? It's so simple and awesome.


----------



## dramaqueen

I can't wait to see pics of it once you get it all set up.


----------



## MattsBettas

Don't worry, DQ. There will be plenty! :-D

I'm introducing the pairs today! I'm very excited since two of the boys I brought home from California and the girls were from Catw0man (originally imports from Thailand), who helped me out a ton!


----------



## MattsBettas

Flirtin' (Notice the males "S" shaped body)


----------



## Mahsfish

Nice pair Matt. Pineapple Dumbos? Correct? I like the pic of that males body wag its a neat action shot


----------



## MattsBettas

Males not a dumbo but I suspect he carries the gene, female has nice big ears. Both are blue pineapple/yellow "dragonflys". Female is from TMT and male is from a petco in SoCal. Mah, if you are going to get back into bettas HMPK may be the way to go with your hard water; they don't get fin problems like HMs do. 

Oh, and just 'cuz-







(This guy decided to ignore the bubble wrap I gave him and used the ial in the BACK CORNER OF THE TANK instead.)


----------



## Mahsfish

Cool Matt. And yes I would love to get into hmpk. Ill be looking around. I might just fool around with my batch of f1 hm x pk and interbreed to figure more out about genetics first. Maybe I'll get some off you from this pair if they breed and you don't mind. Haha


----------



## MattsBettas

Course I don't mind. The aren't show quality (yet...) but they look pretty nice lol. I also have a HMDT and a HMPK (both blue marbles) in my other spawn tank, which is a bit of a genetic experiment but both of the fish are awesome and the female (from 3Dbetta) has great form. Will get pics soon.


----------



## MattsBettas

See?! That's where he made the bubble nest!


----------



## Mahsfish

Yeah I can tell they aren't show quality. Not close IMO but I know I've gotten in trouble for speaking my mind a lot so il leave it at that. If you'd like to hear my opinion pm me. But I'd me interested in the others aswell. Good luck Matt.


----------



## logisticsguy

They are beautiful Matt! Wow your going to get some awesome fry from this pair.


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol believe me, I know the difference between show quality and not, but I honestly don't care. I breed what looks good and keep the standards in mind. I'm not one of those crazy "I culled 98% of my spawn because their caudals were slightly spade shaped and I only care about money and not the fish!" breeders. Lol. 

And it happens to be storming tonight, which is great for breeding.

Edit- Thanks CJ! I'm looking forward to this pair too.


----------



## Mahsfish

I agree with you. Plus for me right now. I don't care whether I'm breeding show or not right now because I'm not planning on entering any shows.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea lol, not even any shows to enter anyways...


----------



## Mahsfish

Exactly


----------



## MattsBettas

Let the female in the yellow and blue pair into the tank today. There has been some nipping and chasing but neither have any damage because the female is faster then the male lol. Hoping they spawn sooner than later.

The other pair is doing fine but the male doesn't have too much of a nest so I might wait a few hours.


----------



## JelloBetta

Oh goody 

Your finally doing a journal, I look forward to reading more of it!


----------



## MattsBettas

Hahaha finally? This journals already 85 pages long lol. Thank you .


----------



## MattsBettas

(Incase your wondering why I'm about to post three different times, I can only post one picture at a time)

The yellow/blue pineapple pair is doing well. Minimal damage on the female, the male has a nice nest going (IN THE WRONG PLACE but at least he's nesting).

So, I introduced the grizzle girl... Here she is in the hornwort-







There hasn't been any nipping yet, but I know that girl can hold her own against any male. She's one of my favorite females and I hope to get some fry like her.

Edit- The female was just chasing the male. I knew it. Lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

My EE has always had eye problems (a tumor on one and popeye on the other) but recently the popeye has has gotten worse... I quarantined him and have him in a kanaplex/Epsom salt solution. He's my special needs fish lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

And that (almost) pure cellophane girl I got from CJ like... Not even two weeks ago has got this awesome black koi/panda marble pattern now. I liked the cello,but I'm not complaining cuz this looks great too.


----------



## MattsBettas

Whoa... Apparently this is a sticky now.


----------



## MattsBettas

My other male decided not to use his bubble wrap too. Gosh. I should just stop giving them things to make their nest on.


----------



## Mahsfish

Looks good Matt. My male wouldn't build a nest. Then I added the duck weed and plants and next thing you know he build a nice big nest. Fussy bettas


----------



## MattsBettas

I like plants. Fish seem so much more happy with them, and they are beneficial for breeding for lots of reasons. 

My dream is to eventually have all my tanks as NPTs but that's far away lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

DT moved and expanded his nest-







This pair is doing really well. Male is flirty and has a nice nest but hasn't even scratched the female, and the female is super flirty and constantly dancing under his nest. I wouldn't be surprised if I get eggs by the time I wake up. Well, one can hope.


----------



## MattsBettas

And my journal is not a sticky anymore, apparently. Lol. I wonder what that was about. 

If a mod is reading this, can they explain please? I figure it was just a mistake.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ugh I just recultured my microworms after letting them go too long. They are still alive, but they smelled like outhouse. I'm not even kidding. *Studders* from now on microworms are getting recultured at least every three weeks. Lesson learned, and I suggest anyone reading this learns from that.


----------



## ao

I'm still stalling your journal 

it probably was a mistake lol.  then someone realized it and unstuck it!?


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----------



## MattsBettas

Apparently. I'm like "Come on. My life can't be THAT interesting" Hahaha.


----------



## MattsBettas

Woke up and neither pair has spawned, but they look like they are getting close... The HMPKEE female is a lot more flirty.


----------



## MattsBettas

HMDTxHPPK pair started wrapping a couple times (weak virgin wraps, they never "clicked" in place). We're close now!


----------



## Mahsfish

Sweet. Does the hmpk carry dt genes?


----------



## MattsBettas

Umm... I'm not sure. She has a really broad dorsal so there is the possibility, but the seller never said. 

They wrapped a few times then the male got frustrated and chased her away, but we are definitely getting close.


----------



## MattsBettas




----------



## dramaqueen

Why was it made a sticky? Lol


----------



## MattsBettas

Apparently dramaqueen posted but I can't see it -_-

The forum is being so weird for me today.

Edit- Oh, now I can see it! Lol. I have no clue why it was a sticky. A mod must have accidentally hit their magic mod button or something.


----------



## MattsBettas

Silly fish. That isn't how you make babies.


----------



## Syriiven

Lol, tey'll figure it out Matt =)


----------



## MattsBettas

Hahaha they already have! There's idk, 50? Eggs in the nest already and they're still goin strong.


----------



## logisticsguy

Awesome they got it all figured out. Its a joy to watch this part of the process it is just so fascinating to me.


----------



## MattsBettas

I know... It's like the most exciting thing ever! Now the other pair just has to figure it out lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

And... The other pair is wrapping. Well, they wrapped once. Now the female is just sitting on the bottom lol. But I'll take it as a good sign!


----------



## MattsBettas

The first pair finished up and I removed the female (who only has a few missing scales, no ripped fins or anything), and now the blue and yellow pair is getting started :-D.


----------



## MattsBettas

(eggs in the nest)


----------



## dramaqueen

MattsBettas said:


> View attachment 199498
> 
> Silly fish. That isn't how you make babies.


Lol I'm glad they're figuring it out.


----------



## MattsBettas

Both females are removed and it is all up to the males now :-D. The only damage in the grizzle female is a few missing scales, but the yellow/blue girl is pretty tore up and, most concerning, she banged her eye or something and not it's swollen and there's blood in it. She's still active and healthy otherwise so I'm thinking all she needs is a bit of Epsom salts, IAL, and clean water.


----------



## MattsBettas

Dt daddy with his eggs-


----------



## Syriiven

Yay~


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol thanks. 

I'm going to start a spawn log(s) once they start free swimming. I get a few days off, then the work really begins...


----------



## MattsBettas

Dt ate the vast majority of his eggs. I have five left (that I can see)... Oh well, at least I have some, and five babies will not be hard to raise and will grow fast lol. I got him out, now I'm just hoping they stay in the nest for the next 12-24 hours until they hatch. 

The other dad is doing well, and I think he has a big spawn, but I can't really tell since he made his nest in the least visible place possible.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ok, so, he definitely ate some eggs and was an awful daddy but there are a lot more hen I thought... There are eggs underneath the duckweed... I probably have more like 30. I made sure to look everywhere to make sure he didn't just move his nest, but I guess I missed some.


----------



## MattsBettas

A few eggs are starting to twitch. We're only about six hours away from 36 hours which is when I expect them. Excited to wake up tomorrow lol.


----------



## Elsewhere

Subscribed! Going to try and read through that nearly 90 pages... I really need a social life...


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol! It really is probably not worth your time... Hahaha.


----------



## Croz711

MattsBettas said:


> Ok, so, he definitely ate some eggs and was an awful daddy but there are a lot more hen I thought... There are eggs underneath the duckweed... I probably have more like 30. I made sure to look everywhere to make sure he didn't just move his nest, but I guess I missed some.


The exact same thing happened to me! I thought I only had three fry only to discover a day later that I have around 70 (that I could see)...Good luck with everything man!


----------



## Elsewhere

MattsBettas said:


> Lol! It really is probably not worth your time... Hahaha.


Oh ho ho! I am terribly bored and can't fall asleep. Plus, you generally have short posts, and I'm already on page 22... Mwuaha!


----------



## MattsBettas

Elsewhere- Lol well go ahead if you want, but I'm just warning you. Oh and by the way a lot of it is complaining about sick and dead/dying fish. You must be in eastern Canada if you already can't sleep, right? 

Croz711- Yea for a few hours I thought I had four, then I kept finding more and more... Lol. We'll see how many I end up with. They should hatch tonight, some have already started.


----------



## Croz711

How much do you feed your fry the first week? And when can i start water changes?You seem pretty experienced...


----------



## MattsBettas

Fry need small amounts of food often. Vinegar eels are ideal for the youngest ones but banana worms and bbs should work too. Usually they just live on the natural infusoria in the tank for the first day.

Most people start water changes at two weeks but as long as you are very careful you can start them after they start free swimming, or wait a bit longer. You just have to be super careful. Fry are delicate.


----------



## Croz711

Well shoot, I fed them BBS twice today x_x


----------



## MattsBettas

Nah that isn't a problem. They'll be fine, just don't add loads and loads... Tiny fish eat tiny amounts.


----------



## MattsBettas

The dt pooped today and it was white, so yea, he was definitely an egg eater. 

Good news is that the eggs are already starting to hatch :-D.


----------



## Elsewhere

Awesome news, Matt! And yes, from good ol' Ontario. My cousin lives in your province, though


----------



## MattsBettas

See it? This baby is from the HMDT/HMPK spawn. They hatched, even though dad came out and didn't help them along.


----------



## Mahsfish

Congrats Matt. But in no way meaning to be offensive, what are you trying to achieve from the hmdt x hmpk spawn? And the fin lengths will vary from fish to fish and they dt will only show if the female has dt geno. I'm just curious if there is a goal like establishing hmpkdt or just for fun. I don't mean to be rude as I know the way the question somewhat does but I couldn't think as another way to word it


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea I want to eventually achieve marble/grizzle HMPKDT, since we don't have any around here and they look awesome when done properly. It's also a bit of a genetic experiment to see how it plays out. Don't worry, I know what I'm doing .


----------



## Mahsfish

I don't dont doubt that you don't know what you're doing, as I know you know exactly what you are doing haha. I was just curious. I hope you can get an hmpkdt line going that would be great. I agree they look awesom when done correctly


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks Braydon. 

I picked up more prime (love that stuff) and five Malaysian trumpet snails from big als. I got five but the lady only charged my for four. I like pretty much all snails, and unless they are eating my plants I don't mind having them in my tank.


----------



## logisticsguy

Looking good Matt, Dont let your new snails in same tank as those assasins lol


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol at the store the lady told me "You know they'll reproduce quick, right?" And I told her that that's why I have a tank of assassins .

And... Today was my last day of summer.


----------



## MattsBettas

My group of five MTS already had two babies last night. What have I done. Lol. 

*Huff* back to the grind today.


----------



## Catw0man

Good luck, Matt!!!! Can't wait to see what your babies look like as they grow! I subscribed now so that I can keep myself updated...lol


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks Catw0man! I'll be making a spawn log fairly soon and that's where I'll post updates on the fry.


----------



## MattsBettas

Fry started free swimming today. Here we go.


----------



## logisticsguy

That is great! Yes the real work starts now. Good luck Matt!


----------



## MattsBettas

So, last night I found out my plants will come in on the 13th or 14th because the sender messed up... That's two and a half weeks in the mail. Can plants even survive that? Nother change of plans I guess. Oh well though, if they do come dead I better get a full refund.


----------



## ao

That IS a long time... what plants did you get and how trust-worthy is this seller?
How did they get stuck in transit for 2.5 weeks?  even snail mail shouldnt take that long D:


----------



## MattsBettas

Uh... Easy, low-med plants like wisteria, Val's, water sprite, etc. Seller is reputable, it is a business. 

He entered the postal code (zip code) wrong apparently.


----------



## MattsBettas

Well, it turns out the plants came today after all... I honestly don't know what is wrong with Canada post. 

Spent hours planting the tank and I'm not sure how I like it. Hopefully it grows in quick, I hate how bare it looks and I need to get my girls in there ASAP.


----------



## ao

Well cant complain about the plants coming in on time!!!!


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----------



## MattsBettas

You're right! They just scared me a bit. Lol. 

I was going to make a spawn log today but I didn't. Will tomorrow.


----------



## MattsBettas

Got my spawn logs up!


----------



## MattsBettas

Got my girls floating in their tank!







The plants are doing lots of melting (the Hygrophila 'Siamensis' is the worst, I don't even know if it will survive), which is dissapointing but I expected it and I know they will bounce back. Hopefully the bounce back soon, though.


----------



## dramaqueen

I guess the post office sucks everywhere.


----------



## MattsBettas

Came home from dinner to my favorite female, who I got from Thailand via Catw0man, dead. No external signs of anything, and she was swimming around, perfectly fine, when I left. I'll be doing a necropsy tomorrow. I have her babies though. And you best be sure they are going to receive impeccable care. 







Ugh 

Happy birthday to me. I might take a couple days off from the forum, idk, I'm grumpy and don't want to say something I'll regret. We'll see.


----------



## dramaqueen

Matt, I'm sorry foryour loss. You can vent to me via pm if you want.


----------



## logisticsguy

Oh man Matt that is terrible. Females seem to have a very weak immune system for a couple weeks after spawning. Ive lost 2 females for no apparent reason after spawning myself. She was a beauty and why its always our favorite fish is a mystery to me. Im so glad you have her fry.


----------



## MattsBettas

I know, it's sad but there is always that risk... Thing is, there was next to no damage on her and there were ZERO symptoms... Oh well. Her fry are looking great.

And I stumbled across this today- 



This is called a "bullet betta". My God. What is wrong with people?! This is obviously a gross mutation, and worst of all, she's in the breeding tank making MORE! Ugh. Things like this both disgust and piss me off. Come on people... Have some respect for animals.


----------



## Syriiven

After females give birth/eggs, their immunities can drop to a severe point where something as small as a cold can become fatal. Thats why before and after pregnant women get a lot of different shots and stuff, to help with dealing with so much stress and exposure. I imagine its the same for most wild animals, just its hard to give them exactly what they need when they need it. Again, being able to talk to our fish would go a long way. 

Very sorry for the loss, Matt. She was gorgeous.


----------



## MattsBettas

I didn't know that, but it makes sense. You would think there would be at lease some sort of symptom though. Or it could have been something internal I didn't pick up in the necropsy. 

It's also interesting that the girl who beat the male up and barely got a scratch died when the girl that was essentially beaten and chased into submission is a happy camper. (Knock on wood)


----------



## Syriiven

I hope the other girl does better. But yea...an ex of mine's sister in law had her baby but then a few hours later abruptly got sick so fast and died they didn't have time to do anything. S'why your shots are important and shouldnt be missed.


----------



## Mahsfish

Who's the breeder?


----------



## Olympia

That bullet betta was bought off of aquabid around 5 years ago, by an expert breeder, who was experimentally breeding to see if it was genetic or not. It either never bred or it wasn't genetic, as that was the only one that ever existed. It would have been fun to cut up though. The original site on it has since gone down. I do think that fish is dead now considering how long ago it was. It lived a pretty normal life, just swam slower than others.
I'm surprised you've never seen it before, was a pretty well known case. You know, kind of how people marvel at a snake with two heads or a lamb with five legs and whatnot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't care if whoever bred it was an expert who has a doctorate in genetics and had done thousands of spawns, the thing should have never been bred. Spinal deformities, compressed internal organs (and thus things like sbd), trouble with mobility, etc are all things that extreme short bodies cause. I've seen some similar ones pop up on aquabid every once in a while, but never to that extent. 

One of the things people do that I hate most is manipulate animals for no reason other than to satisfy their curiosity. 

Anyways, I picked up a big water hyacinth plant and a little water lettuce. I need more floaters for the npt and they were decently priced and the hyacinth has the most awesome root system ever.


----------



## MattsBettas

If I find the cash (grow, baby fish, GROW!), I really want to set up a nice display tank on my night table and stock it with something... Different. It would probably be five or ten gallons, and definitely be a densely planted NPT. Anyways, I just wanted to post pics of some of the species I would ideally stock it with (not all of them... It would probably be a species tank)-






Forgot one! 


And, for the most part, I'm pretty sure the plants in the NPT are done melting! Now I just need more growth. Lots more growth.


----------



## Fenghuang

Those fish are...wow. What are they?


----------



## MattsBettas

Uh... The first three are some type of pseudomugils (can't remember species), fourth is a licorice gourami (I would totally breed those guys, since the species needs a little help), fifth are emrald rasboras, then galaxy rasboras/celestial pearl danios, then Betta albimarginata.


----------



## Mahsfish

I really like the Australian Killies Matt.aube take a look at those aswell. The sparkling gouramis are neat aswell. I think the tank is going to look great Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Killis are nice, and I looked at them, but for some reason I'm not that interested in them. Sparkling gouramis are too bland IMO... I want the tank to have some colour/interest. 

I lost the HMKEE girl sometime last night, the other mom. Same thing- no external symptoms, was fine one second, dead the next. Sy is probably right, I mean, there isn't any other explination. Sigh.

Edit- Mah, how are your fry doing?


----------



## Elsewhere

Aw, Matt, I'm sorry about the other mom 

But I do love all of those fish you put pictures of! I wish Ontario had such awesome little guys!


----------



## Mahsfish

Sparkling gouramis are somewhat bland I can agree with you. How big is the tank gonna be? And I'm sorry about your loss matt


----------



## Mahsfish

My fry are around 0.5 inches. Still small. I've been really busy with school so water changes are only 2 times a week right now. I have 6 fry. They are shouting reds and some blacks. Slowly growing. I plan on trying to get a water change in today.


----------



## MattsBettas

You should post pics. How old are they now? 

The tank will be five or ten gallons... Depends on what fish I want to go with.


----------



## Olympia

MattsBettas said:


> One of the things people do that I hate most is manipulate animals for no reason other than to satisfy their curiosity.


Never study biology or psychology in university. We do a lot of that here. Heck Monsanto even set up base at my school.

First is spotted blue eye. Not sure in the middle but also a blue eye. The last isn't related as closely, threadfin rainbowfish. I have some, they are nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattsBettas

I like watching the pseudomugils swim. Their pectorals look so funny. 

I've decided that I'm not going to carry out my sorority. Instead I'm going to divide the tank as soon as it is safe for fish... I only have four girls now, and this will just be more manageable and there are girls I eventually want to breed and I don't really want to risk them in a sorority situation with only four girls. I'll probably make it a full on sorority once my fry grow in and I could throw in six or so more fish, but for now I'm just going to divide it.


----------



## MattsBettas

The cello girl from CJ died last night. I'm just about ready to lose my mind. That's three nice fish in a week and I don't know what's going on .


----------



## MattsBettas

I think the cups are poisoning them... No plastic smell or anything, but it's only my girls that are dying and this only started after they were cupped. Idk what to do... The tank's not ready for them and I have no where else for them to go. I'm so stressed.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Looking at the pictures from the previous page, I think pseudomugil gertrudae are perfect for a 10 gallon tank. I had a group and they are a stunning species and become quite friendly and bold once they settle in. 

Licorice gourami are beautiful but excruciatingly shy. I mean I keep wild betta species that are shy but these guys beat even them. Most of the time I would find myself staring at an empty tank. 

Threadfin rainbows are also nice, particularly when they are displaying.

Another species I highly recommend are microdevario kubotai. They are absolutely stunning and extremely personable for schooling fish. 

Sorry to hear about your females. Can you purchase some food safe tupperware containers? I use these $2 plastic containers similar to what our Chinese take-out comes in to hold fish sometimes and they have never caused any problems.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ooh those microdevario kubotai are pretty nice. The Celestial pearl danios and emrald rasboras are more suited to my water though, and I love them. 

The containers I'm using are food safe but I could get different ones...


----------



## LittleBettaFish

CPDs are pretty boring. I had some and they just used to hide in my floating plants and only come out to eat. Apparently they are known for being quite elusive. 

The Danio erythromicron are gorgeous. I was looking at them a while back but they require harder water and so I didn't get any. 

Seems odd food safe containers would cause harm. I am just throwing this out there but could it be something like BPA in the plastic causing problems? Apparently it is bad to heat plastic containers that container BPA above a certain temperature as I think it leeches out or something.


----------



## logisticsguy

Sorry to hear about the cello girl Matt. Im not sure what is up either. Wish I had some answers to help you. Don't get too down things will get better.


----------



## MattsBettas

BPA is an estrogen mimicker and that's why it messes with us... It could probably do some damage in fish over time but since its more of a hormone then a toxin I doubt it could do anything in two weeks. That's not to say some other compound could've been released though... I'm not going to find out so whatever, I guess. 

I ended up putting them in room temp 2l pop bottles because its better then being poisoned to death. I don't know. 

I'm sorry CJ. I'm feeling pretty guilty after having her for a month, ya know? Too bad cuz she was beautiful and was quiter interesting.


----------



## logisticsguy

Don't feel guilty because stuff happens in this hobby. good idea with the 2l bottles, Ive kept a fish in one of those for quite a while. I still have the cello girls identical twin here so if you ever want her I would gladly trade for one of your fry lol.


----------



## dramaqueen

Aww, I'm sorry, Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Long time no see! Lol. 

I haven't had any more deaths and will be dividing the 20 (now fully cycled!) soon. 

Fry's look amazing and grow every day. 

And I am planning on setting up a couple npt gallon jars... I like nanos and I think it would be fun.


----------



## MattsBettas

Got the tank divided and the girls in!


----------



## veggiegirl

go the nano's! god some of them look amazing all aqua-scaped. Will try my hand at it one day but in the meantime please post pics of what you come up with I would love too see them!

I am so sorry to hear of the trouble that you have been having with your girls  I really hope things will settle down soon for you. I know all to well that horrible feeling when this sort of thing happens.....


----------



## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> Got the tank divided and the girls in!


Terrific I bet they really like it.


----------



## Phantom Miria

Gratz on getting the tank divided, post some pics


----------



## MattsBettas

I'll try to today. It honestly looks like absolute crap since I never designed the tank to be divided, but at least my plants are starting to come in.


----------



## ashleylyn

You're slacking in the picture department. Hurrryyyy!


----------



## MattsBettas

Journal revival???

So, first some bad news... I've lost three fish in the past week and a half from various causes, which is pretty sad.

First was my super black female from Thailand, who died while she was supposed to be being conditioned to breed. She has some sort of bacteria or parasite that I couldn't cure. 

Second was my blue marble dt from petco in America... He died peacefully of old age. I have his babies... More on that later.

Third was my HM female from logisticsguy who was almost a year old. She had been fighting dropsy for a week and despite some pretty intensive treatment never recovered. She stopped eating today and really wasn't looking good so I decided to put her down, though I can't stop feeling like somehow I made the wrong decision. 

Anyways, lots of good news too!

I joined an Albertan fish forum recently and hope to find some fish and plants on there locally... Especially least killifish and endlers livebearers. It's neat to see that there are plenty of people in my area who share the same hobby. 

My fry are also growing really well and should be ready in a month or two. They all have their own personalities and I can actually tell them apart now hahaha. Soon they are going to have to be jarred. 

I also have another spawn planned but I'm going to keep it quiet until I know for sure that it will go through, but I'm pretty excited for it.


----------



## TurtleBarb

Awww. I'm sorry for your loss.


----------



## Syriiven

Sorry for your losses Matt. I lost two of my girls just yesterday and the day before, so I got feels for you. 

Looking forward to your jarred pics ^^


----------



## Chachi

So sorry for your losses.


----------



## logisticsguy

Sorry about the lost ones Matt. It takes a lot of courage to euthanize long time pets. You did the right thing because her chances of survival were very small as you know and no point having them suffer further. I hope I can reserve one of your fry. Excited to find out what your spawn plans are going to be. 

Sorry about your girls too Syriiven. These fish were lucky to have owners like you and Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

CJ you can reserve whatever you want, after Catw0man (she gave the moms to be and I promised her first pick if she wanted). I would bring them down in January. 

I hate euthanizing fish. It makes me feel awful but I knew she wasn't recovering and there was no point in letting her spend her last few days suffering. 

I'll PM you spawn plans.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Sorry to hear about your losses


----------



## dramaqueen

I'm sorry for your losses, Matt.


----------



## EvaJupiterSkies

I just read all 96 pages in this epic, proving that a) I have no life and b) I think I've maxed out my stalker EXP.

I admire your dedication to having so many fish. I'm being very cautious with just my male and my female right now, but eventually, if the right crowntail boy catches my eye... we shall see. 

I think I have to go hunt down your fry log now... and continue having no life at almost 4am


----------



## MattsBettas

You seriously read it all? I feel kinda bad lol. My spawn logs-
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=262881
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=262873

And, uh, 6000 posts.


----------



## Syriiven

I'm wondering if I might be able to reserve one Matt...a female. After others of course. The only problem is its now winter, and I'm not sure when we'll be anywhere near Calgary >.<


----------



## logisticsguy

Maybe Matt could drop of at my place Syriiven. Then I could get your girl to Lethbridge easily via my courier friend. Just an idea.


----------



## Syriiven

logisticsguy said:


> Maybe Matt could drop of at my place Syriiven. Then I could get your girl to Lethbridge easily via my courier friend. Just an idea.


Well that might work out - assuming Matt lets me - because I'm getting more ink done in Lethbridge on Feb 7th, which is around when they could travel...


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm all good with that if you guys want to do it. I'll be dropping them off in early January though, so CJ would have to hang on to them for a month. 

What spawn are you interested in? I'm pretty sure everybody but one (who's way to little to sex) in my yellow and blue ee spawn are claimed... But I have some nice lighter colored fish in the dtXhmpk spawn. I'll get more pics soon.


----------



## Syriiven

I will have to haunt your spawns for a bit to see pics. I obviously would ADORE an EE, since they're hard to come across in Canada w/o AB. Since I plan to have this one fish on my desk, it can be male or female. So I don't mind claiming that last one if you dont mind. 

Otherwise I can go browse pics later tonight and let you know. 

If CJ doesnt holding onto him/her for a month any ways. I trust CJ though.


----------



## logisticsguy

I would be happy to hold onto a fish for Syriiven. Matt you have a couple very nice spawns young man.


----------



## Syriiven

Cj - That would be so awsm!

Matt - My gosh I forgot how freaking ADORABLE baby bettas are xD I went through all the pics from both spawns, and I have to admit I'm really digging the cute level of the dtXhmpk spawn.


----------



## Fenghuang

I wish you lived in the US. They're so darn cute.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. I'll try to get more pics up tomorrow .

I also want to try using my dads dslr and macro lense and actually get some quality photos, but I need to figure it out and stuff.

Edit- Oh my gosh. Rob Ford. I wish I could make jokes but it's just sad.


----------



## dramaqueen

I can't wait for pics!


----------



## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> Edit- Oh my gosh. Rob Ford. I wish I could make jokes but it's just sad.


The most internationally famous Canadian ever. The late night talk shows omg. I just cant believe that buffoon was ever elected. Entertaining for sure because every day something ridiculous happens. He just wont quit and they going to have to drag him out of office.


----------



## dramaqueen

I'm glad the U.S isn't the only country with buffoons as elected officials.


----------



## MattsBettas

Lol. Does The Daily Show happen to be one of those "late night talk shows"?

They're trying to strip him of as many powers as they can, but they can't actually remove him from office. I will admit that I would have a hard time if I had to choose between someone like him and one of those crazy wing nuts though.


I am seriously considering trying to squeeze another rack in my room and have more room then before. Idk... I want to be able to fit ten gallons on it length wise, which would open a lot of opportunities up.


----------



## logisticsguy

How are your spawns doing Matt. Looks like I may have a good one started.


----------



## MattsBettas

My spawns are doing great. Growing too fast hahaha... My jar heater isn't working so the most aggressive are separated off within the tank right now. 

I really hope your spawns work. I w̶a̶n̶t̶ need Jupiter and Cookie to spawn hahaha. That's part of the reason I want more racks... I don't have room for two more ten gallons.


----------



## logisticsguy

Yeah I can relate to wanting more room. The family wont give up another inch to me lol. A rack is the way to get more capacity. I need a fishroom so bad!! Glad your spawns doing good. Jupiter needs a little more time to grow but I will get a spawn from those fish or die trying.


----------



## dramaqueen

I'm glad your spawns are doing well, Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. 

I need more room. Everything but one tank is in my 12'x12' room, which is fine by me, but it can be a real pain in the butt sometimes. I am always making different layouts of my room so I can fit in a new rack or one more tank or something hahaha. The design/layout of the walls is dumb and prohibits me from doing what I want. I can wait until I get my own place but I'm strategic and try to make the most out of every inch... Or, I could just win the lottery and build myself a big, heated, customized fishroom... Anyways...

Ares is going downhill. I came home today to find him looking like he ate a marble, but he isn't pineconing or constipated... The mass is very clearly fluid build up. I had him in an Epsom salt bath but it didn't do much. I'll probably start kanaplex tomorrow but at this rate I might decide to not even attempt treatment and just let him pass or put him down when he gets to that point. We'll see tomorrow. 

I'll probably do something non-betta (least killifish or endlers, most likely) in his tank.


----------



## Syriiven

Aw, poor Ares! I hope he doesnt suffer, either way.


----------



## MattsBettas

Me too. He's getting pretty old so this isn't surprising, honestly.


----------



## MattsBettas

I put Ares down tonight. I came home and his bloating had not gotten any better and he was completely inactive and struggling to swim, along with looking like he has just given up, so it was the for him to go. I'm sad about it since that was one old fish who had been through a lot (two spawns, a change in ownership, a horrible habit of tailbiting in the last ~1/4 of his life). 

His tank will probably be used for least killifish.

Here's a pic Sena Hansler took of him when he was healthy and young-








And here's him today, shortly before euthanasia. I don't know what happened to him... It was like dropsy without pineconing. He looked like he ate a pea-marble sized object.


----------



## logisticsguy

Sorry about Ares Matt. He had a good and interesting life. Great looking fish in his prime. Im not sure what happened to him but note the similarities between his death and a fish of mine Moose.


----------



## EvaJupiterSkies

SIP Ares. He was a lovely fish.


----------



## Syriiven

Sip to Ares - if you don't mind Matt, I'm going to paint him up as a memorial. He's touched a lot of our lives, even only so many of us have really met him. And his kids are still going strong here.


----------



## PetMania

Wow, he did make his mark


----------



## MattsBettas

Of course, Sy. He was a pretty special fish to quite a few people. Glad to hear his legacy lives on. 

CJ, I never noticed the similarities to Moose but am now... I don't know how he would have gotten parasites though. Regardless, he was never in contact with others and his tank will be broken down. 

If I get some money for Christmas I *might* consider buying this- http://www.aquasafecanada.com/store/aquarium-ro-di-filter-systems/aquarium-ii-7-stage-ro-di-system

I don't know... It's 150 bucks but my water really sucks...


----------



## logisticsguy

Yes our water really does suck Matt. It causes so many problems being so high ph and hard as a rock. Im going to ask for that RO for Christmas too!


----------



## Syriiven

Sounds like a plan guys, I'm sorry the water up there's so different. 

>> Meanwhile I seem to have perfect water here, with very few problems with the fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

My water doesn't kill my fish or anything, it just has a pH that's way higher then I would like (8.2) (why can't I love cichlids?) and runs 0.50ppm ammonia. The bettas adjust to the pH and I cycle or plant all my tanks for the ammonia, but the high ph really prohibits me from keeping species I would like like some wild bettas, licorice gouramis, some shrimp, and other soft water fish. RO/DI just seems like a good investment, even though I could get so many fish with 150$. And yes, that's what I do before I buy things, I think of how many fish I could buy with that amount of money hahaha.

I also want to upgrade or buy a new rack... I need more room!


----------



## Syriiven

Ah, yea my pH is 7.0. <3

Well I hope the RO/DI works out for you.


----------



## logisticsguy

I am so jealous right now. Green with envy


----------



## dramaqueen

Rofl.


----------



## TruongLN

Sip Ares. I'm positive you have him an amazing life.


----------



## Phantom Miria

So sorry to hear about Ares, I think you made the right decision.. I know how hard it is especially when its an older betta that's been around so long. Swim in peace.


----------



## MattsBettas

You two found my journal  lol.

Sy, psht, you and your perfect water. 

Gonna share my little dream now...

I've been fantasizing about getting a new rack... This time not being a cheapo and getting whatever was cheap and works, this time I want a perfect, well designed, fitting shelve system that holds... 15 ten gallon tanks. Yea, that's right. 15. The tanks will go in lengthwise, and I've even already been planning (dreaming) what they will hold. Right now it is ~tentatively~ going to be-

- 2 tanks, one giant each
- 4 spawn tanks
- 2 NPT sororities, for female bettas I've bred until sale
- 1 tank divided in four for males
- 1 tank divided in four for females
- 1 tank for self cloning crayfish
This is where it gets a bit less sure~
- 1 tanks for wilds, most likely albimarginata or channoides 
- 1 tanks for corys (probably pygmaeus or habrosus)
And I can't choose the last two. Most likely more divided tanks for bettas or maybe licorice gouramis or sparkeling gouramis or guppies or shrimp or bristle nose plecos or something.

How awesome would that be? 

I've also been thinking about seeing if I can find a job hahaha. But hopefully I can start to break even, because I am super frugal... I've never even bought a new tank, only used, and if I can get it for cheaper without settling for less, I will.


----------



## PetMania

I'd say BN plecos for the last one...lol


----------



## Syriiven

Psht, I know. xD


----------



## MattsBettas

XP

I spent the evening sterilizing an old, disgusting tank that I got for free. It's just 10g and will be used for breeding. I also (after sterilizing it) put my MTS "colony" into Ares' old tank, and now that they have a heater I'm hoping they will start breeding like rabbits for me. 

I might be getting another pair... It's tentative but likely... I just need to find the room. I can't wait to get more shelves, whenever that happens.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm getting the pair on Saturday. I excited but sad at the same time since they are a friends pair and she never could breed them, but I'm happy to be getting my hands on some show quality stock.


----------



## Syriiven

-steals pic of Ares- oh btw grats on 100 pags ^^


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh, wow, I didn't even notice that! 

Getting my pair tomorrow... I'm super excited. I need my heaters to come too... Ugh I love online shopping but hate waiting. I should go check my mailbox I guess. Time to set up the tanks for the pair too.


----------



## Syriiven

Grats on the pair =3 Hope things work out with them!


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I'm not getting the pair today. There was a freezing rain warning so they didn't want to drive into town as originally planned, so it's completely understandable and I would rather my friends stay safe anyways. Besides, it gives me a bit of time to prep their tanks. 

I went to the lfs and picked up some plants (Monosolenium tenerum and something they called weeping moss but it's not weeping moss lol). They had a buy one get one for 1$ sale so I got 14$ worth of plants for 8$.


----------



## MattsBettas

1000 posts... Wow.


----------



## Syriiven

I just saw that. Holy crap. Grats!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha yea. 

The _Monosolenium tenerum_ pearled so much it floated to the surface of the tank. In five hours. Wow.


----------



## MattsBettas

I got the pair! They are more beautiful then I expected. Wow. Pics to come after drip acclimation is finished. A few of you will know them...

I also got white worms and VE.


----------



## MattsBettas

Here's pics. They are a solid red pair from arguably the best show breeder in Canada (who I have serious ethical qualms about buying from, but I got this pair from a friend who wanted to have them bred before they die, not from him), and I'm pretty happy to have them.

Male-






Female (a bit less excited about the photoshoot lol)-


----------



## Syriiven

Looks amazing Matt!


----------



## Mahsfish

Looks good Matt. And hey I'm back after what a few months of inactivity. Thought I'd come back on here. Matt I heck out the logs. Fry look great. With school and everything my fry haven't gotten the bast care. I'm gone weekends for basketball and got practice during the week. Finally some fry have gotten to 1.5". I'm gonna do a wc tonight if I get my physics done.


----------



## MattsBettas

Nice to see you, mah. You should check in more often. Post pics of the fry, I want to see them!


----------



## Mahsfish

I will once I get the chance to take pics. Nothing interesting anyways. Busy all week with basketball. But I should have time this weekend.


----------



## TruongLN

Your red pair are gorgeous!


----------



## Mahsfish

Hey Matt. I hope you don't mind me pic spamming your journal. Cause I'm about to. Haha. Only 3 pics of my fry. I really need to do some cleaning and stuff but dispute that I got some crappy ipod pics for ya.


----------



## Mahsfish

The smaller of the 6.


----------



## Mahsfish

Largest 2


----------



## MattsBettas

They look nice. I can definitely see CJ's line in there.

Thanks Mah and Truong. I'm excited to breed these guys, they are the highest quality fish I've ever had.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yea. Well the parents were both marble so well see how they turn out. Hopefully I can find time for frequent water changes and cleaning to get them growing fast. They are way small of their age. 

And yea I grant you the best of luck on breeding them. Who are they from?


----------



## MattsBettas

EliteBetta bred them but I got them from Shae.


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay that's what I was thinking


----------



## MattsBettas

I ordered three more heaters. That's three more 10 gallons I can run now ;-). 

The reds are super receptive to each other. I can't wait to get them bred. 

I think I'm going to experiment with higher temperatures with his spawn to encourage faster growth. Might add a sponge filter to keep ammonia at 0 too.


----------



## logisticsguy

I wish heaters weren't so expensive. Looking forward to your red spawn myself they are gorgeous. Its a good idea with the sponge filter. I try to keep an extra couple running in old tanks so there is a good bb colony going when they are needed in a spawn tank. You can also take an empty bottle of Prime, fill it with Matrix, pop some holes in it and you have a very ugly but effective ammonia buster.


----------



## MattsBettas

I wish I could just run a space heater but that isn't gonna work when I sleep in my fishroom haha. Running them is pretty pricy too. I've been getting my heaters off amazon.com (way cheaper on com then ca) for 10-15$ each, of the three I just got 2 were 100w and one was 50w and it was... 36$ I think in total. They're the aquatop brand. Way cheaper then stores.

Might have to try that filter idea... Assuming you run air through it, right?

I might just get a plastic tub that I keep stocked with ready to go filters with a crayfish or fish or pure ammonia or something, so I always have cycled filters on hand.


----------



## dramaqueen

I only have 2 working heaters. The 3rd one works but heats a 2.5 gallon critter keeper to like 85 or 86* set at 75.


----------



## TruongLN

I thought they were elitebettas, very nice fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea. He has awesome fish and lines and I respect him as a breeder, but I hate his practices and doubt that I could ever support him because of it. I'm still happy to have his genes in my fishroom though lol.


----------



## TruongLN

I've seen a scary video posted by him....
like very scary.
I would love to have his fish though.


----------



## Syriiven

_~~If you don't support him, don't buy~ from him~~_

I understand he's more local than other fish you'd like to breed, but if you don't support what he does, then buying stuff from him only helps him continue doing it.


----------



## MattsBettas

Truong, the turtle one? Yea... It made me nauseous. What disturbed me more then the fact that he did that was that he felt the need to put it up on his page. 

Sy, it's kinda complicated. I mean, I don't think I will ever buy from him, but if I don't, it's no loss to him... He pretty much has people begging for his fish. Local or not, he has the best quality fish in Canada and that means that breeding fish from those lines gets me fish that are easy to sell and healthy... And with that comes less time in jars, better buyers, and that the possibility of me having to cull (cull, NOT kill) decreases dramatically. That, and who knows if the Thai breeders are really any better. I'm going to buy new stock eventually... I have time to decide where from though.


----------



## Syriiven

I understand the troubles of becoming an ace breeder in Canada. But it's the exact same as saying 'I dont think Seaworld should abuse whales for people's entertainment' and still going to the park. 

Seaworld doesnt care if one or two people stop going, but now there's a lot of people (that started as one or two) that are speaking up against them, and they're facing serious issues now. 

It only takes that first person to start a wave of change,.


----------



## MattsBettas

How do you start that, though? Elitebetta is a breeder who is way more respected then me and the majority of breeders on here, and he has a big number (easy majority of show breeders, at the very least) of people who see things the same way he does- showing first, fish second. If that means killing fish, fish die. I'm sure you have seen threads on here about culling... They just end up as a mess with two sides who will never agree. 

It's such a dilemma for me =( I seriously had no clue how complicated breeding fish would be lol. I like this conversation.


----------



## Syriiven

Honestly, the best way these things are resolved is when both sides hang up their feelings and seriously consider the true facts about the animal involved, and what's best for it. 

I honestly don't know if I support the breeding of splendens anymore (the ones breeders end up selling to stores). Wilds are justified for possible future rehabilitation, but our long finned and bright beauties have no place in the wild. So in truth, people breed them for looks to make moeny to continue breeding them for looks. I see it as 'playing God' with nature, and lately its making me edgy. 

But that's my personal opinion. 

To start change, you first need to choose a side. No black and white. Either you're for it, or against it. There's really no middle ground when the sides have such differing opinions on it (I remember the last time we ended up discussing this specific breeder). 

Facts are your friend here. Number of deaths required for a 'perfect' show betta. Is he using the money to feed his family, or is he using it to just force more fish to breed unnaturally to create more fish he'll cull as he sees fit? Does 'tradition' really require the death or abuse of the animal? And yes, 'training' an animal and using to fight for your entertainment or financial gain is abuse. 

You could even turn it around - would any human stand to be treated the way we treat our animals? No, certainly not. Does the fact that the animals we abuse can't fight us give us the right to dominate them? No. Does it give us the right to play God with them for our personal interests? No. 

I won't deny that some of the fish produced are gorgeous. They really are eye-catchers. And that's all that's needed to make someone forget that they're mutants. They are the legacy of many, many, many deaths from breeding exhaustion and culls. 

So, before you can start to do anything, you have to decide your views and opinions and be ready to stand solidly behind them. 

Personally, I think I'm going to let my fish live out their lives and then leave the hobby for the most part - I can't stand seeing them in cups, so I will likely keep one for my desk. But that's it. As much as I don't want to support the aquarium trade any more, it's not the fish's fault they're being used as a commodity. At least for the lucky one I pick from time to time, it's better off with me. But I'm certainly limiting my purchases.


----------



## Mahsfish

Technically we are not playing God imo.

In the bible God said that he would let man name the animals on Earth. This allowing us to name them shows he gives us dominion over them.

Now breeding bettas is just like breeding any other animals for money. Like dogs, the domestic bred dogs people are breeding and selling for money arent going to be introduced into the wild. I understand that the way bettas breed is very violent at times but that doesnt mean it is inhumane. That is their way of breeding, just like in the wild, many species have ways of breeding where only the strongest survive to breed. Which is darwinisms theory of "survival of the fittest" 

Thats just my opinion. I dont mean to be trying to start a fight, just sharing my thoughts.

i agree that sometimes breeders are abusing the hobby aswell. but theres only so much you can do about those few breeders.

Elite is not breeding unaturally IMO. The culls with deformities wouldnt stand a chance in the wild, and the imperfect ones that are culled are only saving issues for future breeders. I do think maybe he could sell the inperfect ones for a low price, but then he would also have to be caring for those ones and paying for extra costs on them before he makes little money on them


----------



## Syriiven

As far as I understand it, Elite has other controversial practices - but I haven't met or talked to the guy, I'm going off what I have heard the last time this came up. 

And~ I"ll go ahead and say it, I dont believe in God. When I say 'playing God' I'm saying man assumes he can do what he wants the way he wants when nature was doing it fine before man came along. 

My personal opinion isn't set in stone quite yet - but reading over the spawn logs of folks, knowing quite well how many fish die in the process (through exhaustion or culling or accidental death or lack of knowledge by the breeder) doesnt really make it worth it imo. I view life as sacred - and then seeing these fish then sold or culled for space to simply continue the process...it just seems like a circle of more death than life. 

Domesticated cats are the cause of the extinction of 30 species. A lot of domesticated dog breeds now a days are also mutations, people are creating animals with problems because they desire a specific size, or appearance. And that's just wrong - there's no reason not to love an animal for what it naturally is. There's no need to warp it into what we think looks nice. 

And with betta fish, that's what breeding is all about. You have a specific result in mind, and inevitably it will be paved with some lives from the spawn, as well as the parents. 

Depending on your position about it, some people can handle that price. I wouldn't be able to. 

I didn't start commenting to start a fight or anything -- my issue was only that you can't say you don't support someone, but then use their goods any ways. 

I also didn't come here to start a lynch mob against Elite, I was only answering a question for Matt.

But I stand by what I've said -- treating fish like commodities is wrong. Breeding mutant fish is 'playing God/Mad Scientist' in my eyes. You're taking something nature created (in the beginning any ways, now you stand on the shoulders of others who already have the different genes), and changing it to suit your desires. And that's just wrong too. 

When man stops trying to change nature, and stops destroying it, maybe then we could evolve again. Co-existance is what we should be seeking. 

But as I said, these are my personal views based on facts and history repeating itself throughout science, discovery, and human expansion/progress. 

Now ALL that being said, I can't condone the killing of the fish already born and sold. I own 18 betta, none of them wild. All from cups or from LG and Sena. I spoil them rotten, and love them all. And not all of them are pretty - after tail-biting, or a fight, or simply born with malformity, I've loved them all. 

So, no, I'm not innocent of not feeding the trade. But in two years now I've certainly changed my view on it based on seeing how often the fish get sick, or die. And I know that in the wild, they don't have even half the problems they do in aquariums an ocean away from their home. In the wild I know they breed when they're programmed (instincts) to, not when someone decides they need more of them. And in the wild they aren't forced to fight, and rarely does it come to a death. 

This is something that's out of control. And we could justify our reasons to ourselves all we want; but there is one truth in all of it - nature was better off being left alone.


----------



## Mahsfish

I can see your view. I think it's hard to chose sides on topics like these. Cause we can all say that we are playing God like roles aswell as we are doing in in inhumane ways. 

But then we also(most of us) keep these pets so in a way we are supporting it. 

I can see both sides and support big sides. So I really don't have a black or white stand on the topic


----------



## Syriiven

I'm just leaning towards not supporting it at all. I think I will let my fish live out their lives, and prlly skip out of the aquarium trade altogether. 

This mentality that man can own/destroy/change living things needs to stop. 

The mentality that we are 'above' or 'apart' from the world's natural web of life needs to change. We have one planet, one chance. (No, I don't believe we have any right to 'escape' our responsibilities and go to Mars, that's as bad as men or women deciding they don't have to care for the child they helped give birth to). It's time for mankind to man-up, and accept what it's done, and start looking for solutions. No more griping about money, or what others get away with, or how tough it's going to be. 

My issues here stem from much, much larger global issues. So I may come off as harsh. I'm really not trying to make enemies. 

But I can't ignore the truth. And if I do nothing, I'm letting things go on unchanged, and getting worse. Which makes me as bad as the people doing it. 

So I speak up. Not every time I do makes a change in people. but every once in a while it does, then they speak up too. 

It starts with one.

Any ways, I'm off topic a little.


----------



## MattsBettas

I love the way you write and think, Sy, and agree with almost all of that- you said most of what I wanted to, just better then I ever could have. I will definitely continue breeding ethically because it is something that I absolutely love doing and learn a lot from... I just don't like having to navigate the ethical gray zones. To me, culling (killing) is a no, breeding fish with anything that may impede the offsprings quality of life (even heavy fins) is a no, quantity over quality (health) is a no, etc. I don't know where that ends though- is giving my money to someone I don't support really going to make a difference when he already has other people lined up to give him money? The only way I could really ever do anything is by changing the way breeders think of culling and, in the greater picture, the value of life in general... But looking at today's breeders it is obvious that that would be an almost impossible task. 

Mah, please don't use religion as a justification to culling (or anything, really). I would consider myself a Christian, but I am a scientifically minded person who bases my ideas and views around fact, logic and reason- not what a twenty five hundred year old book states. I have full respect for religious people, people who are devoutly religious, and people who use religion to guide the things they do- I just don't like it when people try to bring religion into things that really shouldn't have religion involved, law making in particular. Hopefully it was ok to say that. It's absolutely ok to disagree with me- that's just my opinion . By the way I like how you used creationism and Darwinism in the same argument lol. You have to consider that this is not nature, though, and we are the ones who control _every_ aspect of the fish's life... _You_ bring the life into the world, _you_ have every responsibility to raise it and take care of it to the best of your ability. 

Excessive culling and killing is not the only practice of elite's that I disagree with... The fin clipping, violent videos, and general "greater than thou" attitude he often comes across as having don't exactly make me happy. 

You guys have no idea how much I love this conversation... It's making me think hard, and I'm enjoying that. Just stay respectful 

Edit- You have my permission to go as off topic as you would like. What you're writing out is important stuff that everyone- myself included- should hear.


----------



## Mahsfish

The fin cutting he uses is for the health of his fish. He cuts them to prevent his fish from getting fin disease during breeding. 

The fun cutting I believe doesn't have to be used though aslong as you are breeding responsibly. It's also too much when breeders are cutting and them selling them as if they weren't and advertised as they have good fins. 

I do believe he culls excessively. But I do believe that culling should be practiced to an extent. 
If we keep these deformed or mutated fish and they get out. They will only increase the chances of these mutations being passed on to offspring. For example bettas with genetic SBD. These should be culled or just stop the breeding of the line completely. 

I think his culling of the perfectly normal fish though is too extensive and could be prevented my giving away or selling them for a low price.


----------



## Syriiven

two seconds...


----------



## Mahsfish

What is the turtle video. Anyone have link? I haven't seen it


----------



## Syriiven

Sorry, Nana called and she got me going on rants -_-; I'm nearly all ranted out for now (or I wish I was)

Matt, think about how many people justify small purchases like that. How many people say 'I'm just one person, how can me not buying a harshly raised fish make a difference to this guy's sales?'

I'll make this even easier. 

This last year sperm and grey whales are being found beached, having choked on several tons of plastic. So, how many people do you think asked themselves 'Hey, I'm one person, just bringing groceries home. Even if I used reusable bags, I'd still only be one person out of how many. I'm not making a difference."

But it DOES make a difference. One, by one, by one, by one, it truly does make a difference. 

Just because you are one person doesnt mean you're powerless. I won't tell you that you can make change over night. It takes time, dedication, and there's a lot of difficult decisions to make. A lot of habits to break too. But just because you're an individual does NOT make you nothing in the face of change. 

I understand your frustration - here where I live no one gives a darn about the oceans. We're landlocked Alberta, we raise cows and produce, and hunt deer in winter. Why should my town care about the oceans? But I keep trying to tell them, by spreading the word. And yea, just me. On facebook, at work, where-ever I can. because eventually, I'll make someone else stop and think, and question things. And that's a start. 

I'm a perfect example of this. I didn't get big about ocean conservation until my early 20's, I was too wrapped up in 'I come first', which is typical of teenagers entering the real world at 18/19. I lived in Saskatchewan. The complete opposite of the ocean. Never seen a whale, in captivity or, obviously, the wild. But I stumbled across sources on the internet, messages that were years old, but still out there to find. And they changed the way I think almost over night. I think I spent an entire weekend in bed with my laptop watching documentary after documentary, reading these terrible articles about how bad the situation was. 

And suddenly 'finding love' and 'paying bills' seemed a really small issue compared to what certain species were facing. 

So, out of 100's of people who read the same articles, watched the same movies, how many do you think actually got up and did something? Instead of just being sad and doing nothing?

Not many. But I was one, and I aim to help others find the message too, the truith that's out there in the world. Change has to happen. If we're to survive. 

But yes, the ocean is nature, and our aquariums are not. But what we can do to change the aquarium trade are not impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. 

In fact, breeding betta isn't as terrible as kidnapping them from their natural environment. But of course, breeding betta at all should be done responsibly, and ethically. 

But also, aquariums are luxuries for fish in the trade. In the wild, the weak, malformed, are culled naturally. They're eaten or starve to death and then are eaten. Only in aquariums do fish with defects have a chance at a life. But are they in pain? We don't know. I imagine having a bent spine could be painful - it is for people. But fish instinctually keep on swimming. They're goal in life is to survive and pass on their genes. So, in my view, so long as they keep swimming, I'll do my best to give them a life. And I've done so with Demi, and now with Chibisaur (who's having it easier than Demi, but he doesnt have any missing organs). Chibi's sister, Simi, is holding her own just fine in my sorority, even though she also has the same super underbite Chibi does. 

But for a change against cruel breeding practices vs ethical ones, there's a lot to take in account. I've heard Elitebetta call it 'traditional' and that us Westerners 'don't understand'. I will tell you this; it doesnt matter what the culture's practices are, those fish are mutilated, and harrassed, and some aren't given a chance. The 'ethical' argument is really not what the goal is. Winning the argument isn't the goal. Getting what's best for the fish, is. Because the fish don't care what color you are, what you believe, or what country they're in. What they care about is surviving, being fed, and maybe having sex - though none of my males seem to have an issue never having sex =P.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I have just been reading along and as a breeder of wilds who lets her fish grow out as naturally as possible, I have to say that bettas can be some of the most savage cullers out there. I had a juvenile for a while that was the only young fish in the tank because as soon as his father left the nest unsupervised he would go in and cannibalise his newly hatched siblings. 

Another time I thought how nice it was to see one of my older fry swimming near to its newly free-swimming sibling, when in the blink of an eye it was eaten by its older sibling. 

There is a reason fish have so many fry. I imagine the survival rate is not very good and so not every fry is going to make it. Even perfectly healthy fry are going to get killed simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Also bettas are't kidnapped from their natural environment. Go take a look at what has happened to many of the habitats these bettas live in and you will see just how bleak their future is. I think one of the localities for Betta persephone is gone now and others are being destroyed for palm oil or development. Most likely the only future these species have is in the tanks of hobbyists. 

I don't agree with cutting fins etc. or with feeding culls to predatory fish. However, I just wanted to add my thoughts to the topic. Hope that is ok.


----------



## Syriiven

Originally, they were kidnapped. Taken to be put in tanks to fight to the death for money and entertainment. That's how it all started. 

Now, yes, the habitat of any wild species is being drastically reduced. That's human expansion and progress for you. 

But we have some members trying to breed wild types specifically to one day MAYBE re-habilitate them. 

But in the community there are members who are unethical, cruel, and continue to support the fighting trade - which is no different than Europeans tying up a bear and letting dogs harrass and kill it. For sport. For entertainment. It's no different than cock-fights in South America. 

Animals are not here to be entertainment, or a source of income. There's little we can do about the domesticated ones we already have, killing them all to end the trade is unfair to them. But there are ways to make the aquarium/pet trade humane and responsible.


----------



## Mahsfish

Betta fighting is a tradition in Thailand. And some claim it's is part of their normal practice. Which is why it is hard to get rid of betta fighting around the world


----------



## Syriiven

And the Grinde is a tradition in the Faroe Isles from much older times when they didnt have the option of having food shipped or flown from the mainland. Doesnt mean 1500 pilot whales (entire pods) need to be herded, beached, and slaughtered every summer in the present day. 

I wouldn't consider fighting betta a tradition - its a cultural sport. Perhaps the two are one in the same, but it's something I don't see as vital to a belief system, or a way of life. Not in the world we live in today. 

I don't have many traditions myself (being white Canadian), and I don't celebrate most holidays due to consumerism (and other issues with them) -- but I do know that traditions won't 'be forgotten' if animals used are replaced by symbols instead.


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## LittleBettaFish

I think the pet industry for bettas around the world is bigger than the fighting 'industry', and I would have to question whether there aren't worse atrocities committed by pet owners on a daily basis than those whose fish are used for fighting (I am not talking about those individuals that throw two random males in a tank to fight to the death). 

I do wonder though whether you would take exception to the fact that the wild bettas I house in my tank together routinely fight amongst themselves? I was just curious as I do not deliberately fight my fish, but it is a natural behaviour for them and they will seek each other out. 

I don't agree with fighting bettas, but society is very different over in these countries. I would most likely not be able to make a living from breeding fish here in Australia, but overseas it seems possible to have bettas as your main source of income. You have to take into consideration that some people in these countries may not have the luxury of applying a 'Western World' attitude towards animals. 

Also, many domesticated animals would probably be extinct if there wasn't some monetary value attached to them. I know some people/organisations are fine with that, but many others aren't.


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## MattsBettas

~So much to think about.

Of course it's ok for you to add your thoughts. Same goes for anyone else who may be reading . 

IMO fish self culling is way different then removing the fish and killing it yourself, especially when you do it for reasons other then the health of the fish. We make the conscious decision to cull, based primarily on selfish reasoning... Fish that eat siblings or offspring do it because they need to eat. Humans aren't supposed to be part of the fish's food chain. Also, it might just be splendens, but in one of my recent spawns I have a baby that is easily 1/4 the size of the rest and he could easily be eaten by his siblings, and yet they let him live and they leave him alone. Usually he only shows communication to the other special needs baby, funnily enough. 

Sy, I have to agree with LBF on the "kidnapping from the wild" thing. I get that in most cases, removing them from the wild is the worst thing you could do, but with some species _the only hope_ is to remove them from the wild. LBF will tell you about her _B. persephone_, a species that I'm pretty sure is close to only existing within the tanks of hobbyists. I plan on keeping and breeding endangered fish, wild caught or not, once I have the money, because it's something I can do to actually make a difference and something I'm capable and willing to do when most aren't. Your post was awesome though, and made me laugh. I get that one person can make change, and have seen it before... I just don't have a clue where one would start to make a big change in this debate.

Animal fighting is what I spent like half of my last Spanish class debating about (bull fighting in particular). Why some people seem to think that "being a tradition", a human created, effectively useless thing, justifies cruelty, I'll never know. Like you said, maybe the death of the animals was the difference between starving or feeding their families back when the event wasn't a tradition yet, but now, in modern day, with our imported food and supermarkets, you don't need that tradition. It's like how certain people up north can hunt polar bears for sport (and have our environment minister, who doesn't believe global warming is a thing, brag about it on twitter). And not to bash elite further but he recently shared or liked or whatever a video of cock fighting... Just goes to show what he thinks of animals. 

Mah, I can PM you a link to the vid, but I absolutely will not post it publicly.

Edit- Why does "eastern view" or "western view" really matter? A critically thinking Thai (for example) person should be able to see what is right and what is wrong/cruel. Especially now that people have the internet...


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## Mahsfish

ok please do


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## LittleBettaFish

Well there have been a few roosters we have owned that I would have happily punted across the backyard myself if I could have caught them...

Honestly, I think it is very difficult to change the opinions of others. Change has to come from within yourself, not simply kowtowing to societal pressure. 

I think education is key to change. Ignorance may seem like a poor excuse for cruelty but when such practices have been going on for generations it can be difficult to think they are anything but normal.


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## Syriiven

I think I'm gonna bow out for now. I've said what I've come to say. 

It starts with one person - change won't happen if everyone does nothing. 

Gonna go work on a memorial art now.


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## dramaqueen

Very interesting conversation and lots of food for thought here.


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## preternaturalism

Syriiven said:


> Breeding mutant fish is 'playing God/Mad Scientist' in my eyes.


Funny, that's exactly what makes it appealing to me.



Syriiven said:


> You're taking something nature created (in the beginning any ways, now you stand on the shoulders of others who already have the different genes), and changing it to suit your desires. And that's just wrong too.


I disagree. We're as much a natural part of evolution as any predator. The only difference is we're consciously aware of it.


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## BettaLover1313

While doing research on the American Pit Bull Terrier, when my mom and I first adopted a mutt with APBT, in the breeds earlier years of development the dogs were fought to determine which dogs were fit to be bred. 

I do not support the fighting of any animals, but it was an interesting find in my research.


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## Mahsfish

I still don't like that idea of fighting dogs to see which should be bred as that is cruel aswell as the dogs aren't going to be living in conditions where they need to bee extra hardy. But I can see how that is different from just plain dog fighting for the joy of the owners. 

Aswell as that could easily be a step avaoided in breeding them. In bettas on the other hand, it's hard to prevent fighting between a pair if you wish to breed them when they are testing each others strength


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## BettaLover1313

Mahsfish said:


> I still don't like that idea of fighting dogs to see which should be bred as that is cruel aswell as the dogs aren't going to be living in conditions where they need to bee extra hardy. But I can see how that is different from just plain dog fighting for the joy of the owners.
> 
> Aswell as that could easily be a step avaoided in breeding them. In bettas on the other hand, it's hard to prevent fighting between a pair if you wish to breed them when they are testing each others strength



Definitely don't agree with the idea of fighting any animal, but as I said, it was an interesting find in the research.


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## logisticsguy

Its actually critically important to take the steps needed to prevent fighting of the breeding pair. Most often its the female who loses in this situation. The female must be in breed mode before release into the spawn tank. Close attention to her behavior pre spawn and during conditioning can save a life. Females are critical in any breeding program and losing a good girl is very sad. Some males are kind and patient others can be nasty so knowing your fish can reply help. Breeding is very hard on the fish and many females can die due to a beating or stress which can open the door for infection. Post spawn care is also important as I've seen many females die in the week after spawning.

The discussion in this thread is very interesting. When I first started ethics never entered my mind. I was told early that a successful show breeder has to breed hard and cull hard. It didn't take long to realize that wasn't for me. I see bettas as cool pets and love their personalities. To play on the real show circuit requires more time,money and culling than I'm willing to do for what is really a fish beauty contest. Showing is all about conformity. Not my strong suit and really limits what you can do with the fish. 

To me betta fighting is an ugly side of the betta world. It is exactly the same a dog or bull fighting in my eyes. You may not all understand the methods used to train the betta to fight and I wont go into it here but lets just say it may make you sick if you knew the details. There are breeders that live in both show and fighting worlds. I have chosen to not take part in either because I would just not feel good about myself. We all have different goals in life and with our fish. My goal now is to learn how to keep fish in top notch health, no other goals matter anymore. This entire discussion is very needed and I very much respect the points of view some of you have posted.


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## MattsBettas

There pretty much has to be some sort of dominance on either side to spawn though... In bettas, often that comes across as fighting. It's the same as a lot of animals, just usually more violent in bettas. Minimizing damage is important though, as you said.

I'm glad we all agree that fighting animals is wrong.


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## MattsBettas

*1~*

As of today I have officially been a member of this forum for a full year. Wow. I can't believe the things I've learned, the friends I've made, and the addiction that I have been dug/dug myself into. 

I've gone from... 3(?) fish to thirty-ish with two active spawns and one in the (very) near future, and no plans to stop, only to expand. I started with three tanks and two (inappropriate) betta tanks and now have too many tanks and jars to count. That being said, it hasn't been easy... I've gone through a couple major disease scares, and have had to learn how to put fish down and unfortunately use that skill more frequently then I would like. 

I've posted six thousand three hundred seventy one times and have 17.45 posts per day. Wow. 

The best part of this forum has definitely been the people, though. I've met so many nice people that share this hobby. I now know a few people who live (relatively) close to me, people who I have met personally a few times and got awesome fish and other things from. I think the best thing about that, though, is learning that there are people near me with the same interest and hobby. I've also been able to "meet" people who live thousands of miles away from me... This year I've talked about mycobacteria with a Texan show breeder, learned about breeding and genetics from someone in Indonesia, learned about some non-traditional and intriguing keeping and rearing methods for bettas and loads of information on planted tanks from another American, among other things. I know that this is pretty much the point of most forums... My experience here has been awesome in particular though. 

I have lots of future plans which you are going to hear about here and there at some point. I can't believe it's been a year, and look forward to many more.


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## TruongLN

Congrats on one year Matt!!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks Truong!

I got the three heaters I ordered a while ago. I got the spawn tank all set up, can't wait for tomorrow and the weekend. ;-)


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## Phantom Miria

I've been away for a while, holidays, work, snow etc. I read up on this conversation about Elitebetta... and from what I am understanding he is apparently discarding/killing/culling weaker specimens or betta's that do not meet his criteria. It seems absolutely wrong to me, I mean I love my betta's for who they are the way they are and I'm sure they are far from perfect from a breeders point of view but I guess its all in the eyes of the beholder. Its not neccessarily playing god but its kind of genetically forcing them and bending them to one's will. One could argue survival of the fittest and that they fight each other anyways, but that's in nature and not work done by humans...

I grieve every time one of my betta's passes away and euthanizing my girl was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do... I suppose its all subject to opinion and personal views even beliefs. Anyways just thought I'd add my thought, congratulations on one year =)


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## MattsBettas

Thanks. He does cull a lot, and IMO that is the single worst part about his breeding because he brings lives into the world knowing full well that he will be killing a lot of them, but he has a lot of other... questionable practices as well, like the fin cutting for reasons not backed by any legitimate evidence, high prices, etc. He is someone who very obviously sees and treats animals as a commodity and nothing more- which animals should _never_ be treated as. Treating animals as a commodity can be part of a breeders regimen, I certainly do it, but there has to be respect for the life. People lose their crap when they find out about a puppy mill, but honestly, if everyone _truly_ valued life equally, they would be up in arms just as much if they found about fish breeders like elite's practices.

The other day he posted a reply to someone on facebook who asked for pictures of the mother of a spawn he had grown out, and he said it wasn't happening because he had already culled her. Ethics and morals of killing a healthy fish aside, that's either very poor record keeping on his part, not photographing the F0 fish, or he has something to hide. 

Lol. The more I write the more I realize why I dislike him. Like I said before I totally respect him as a breeder, he has amazing fish and is quite successful, but his practices disgust me. 

I'm excited. I get off tomorrow for winter break, will hopefully get another spawn... I'm happy hahaha.


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## logisticsguy

Good post Matt. I'm glad you got your heaters and are ready to do your spawn. It will be a Christmas spawn. Cookie and Jupiter are in a spawn tank again and I can only hope they can move on from being best friends to something more but trying not to get my hopes up as bubble nest seems impossible for that boy. I took your advice and ordered a bunch of heaters online too. Incredible how much cheaper they were compared to the stores here.


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## Phantom Miria

That is just terrible, I could never stand or support something like that. Anyways, glad to hear you're off, as am I! Merry Christmas


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## MattsBettas

I'm off! Finally! 

CJ, they are a really good price online. Where'd you order from? Hopefully you can get Cookie and Jupiter to breed, those are beautiful and I would be most interested in buying fry from that pair out of all of your fish. Not saying your giants aren't amazing and beautiful... That pair is just fantastic. 

Got to go finish setting up the spawn things =)


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## dramaqueen

Congrats, Matt. We're glad to have you here and I thank you for all your helpful posts.


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## Fenghuang

I didn't realize you joined only a week before I did. You always seemed so knowledgeable and, I dunno, veteran-like? But congrats on your one year and best of luck on your future spawn.

Which bettas are you spawning? I've been swamped with final exams and hadn't been on this site much the last few weeks (I just flew home a few days ago), so apologies if you already posted it somewhere.


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## MattsBettas

Lol. I didn't realize I joined at the same time as you and skyewillow either, you guys both seemed like older members. Veteran-like? Ha! I know most of what I do 'cause I do lots of research and am starting to get some experience under my belt, but believe me, I still make big mistakes regularly and am constantly learning. 

I'm breeding these two beauties-


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## PetMania

They're beautiful!


----------



## Fenghuang

I also thought you were older in general lol. But I think we might be around the same age. Or maybe I'm older? (I feel so old!)

Oooh, reds. I don't think I see solid red plakats very often. Good choice. The pair is gorgeous.


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## PetMania

I thought y'all were older as well, lol.


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## Fenghuang

But you're pretty young, PetMania, aren't you? Wouldn't have guessed if I had not seen you say it at one point. I guess we are all just mature for our age. xD


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## MattsBettas

Haha yea I'm in my teens too. So... Close-ish, but I'm a little younger.


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## PetMania

Fenghuang said:


> But you're pretty young, PetMania, aren't you? Wouldn't have guessed if I had not seen you say it at one point. I guess we are all just mature for our age. xD


Yeah, someone thought I was really old or something, lol. 



MattsBettas said:


> Haha yea I'm in my teens too. So... Close-ish, but I'm a little younger.


There are some (well actually a lot out of 56,000) teens, so yeah. 


When did you guys start keeping fish? 
I had my first goldfish when I was 10-11.


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## Fenghuang

I'm 19 and already feeling sooooo old.

I remember my family having fish before, but if I had to say an age, my whole crazy obsession started when I was seven. I got my first official pet, a cute little orange oranda. Sadly, I was not very knowledgeable about fishkeeping then and s/he only lived to be about two years old.


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## PetMania

my goldfish *my first fish* lived for 2 weeks....:-(


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## Pandoras

Ya'll are way young, so quit the elderly complaints, whipper snappers. (I never imagined I'd be the grumpy old person, >.>)

Your breeding pair is gorgeous, Matt.


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## PetMania

Lol, you sound like my science teacher.


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## Pandoras

To whom do you speak? I assume me? I suppose I am old enough to be a teacher at this point, but I've no credentials.


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## PetMania

I meant that when you are talking about the whole 'you're young, stop with the old stuff'. My science teacher is in her 30s or 40s and she says that to us a lot.


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## logisticsguy

I feel older than dirt right now. Your all very mature for your age and a very smart bunch of young people. Some people my age group blah blah blah about younger humans. For the most part the young people I know are quite amazing.


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## dramaqueen

I've been told that I'm only able to relate to teenagers. Lol Well, most of the Teens I've met here are very mature and intelligent. No one should discount you just because you're a teenage and only see things through your teenage eyes. Also, just because you may not have actually EXPERIENCED something doesn't mean you don't know beans about it. I've never bred bettas but I've been answering breeding questions and no one has corrected me yet. I know if I gave wrong info I can count on CJ or Matt to step in and tell me and NICELY correct me instead of making me feel like an idiot.


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## PetMania

+1


----------



## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> I'm off! Finally!
> 
> CJ, they are a really good price online. Where'd you order from? Hopefully you can get Cookie and Jupiter to breed, those are beautiful and I would be most interested in buying fry from that pair out of all of your fish. Not saying your giants aren't amazing and beautiful... That pair is just fantastic.
> 
> Got to go finish setting up the spawn things =)


I got 3 50 watt heaters for 47 bucks off amazon, I will buy almost everything online from now on. Yeah you wouldn't believe how bad I want them to spawn lol. Im leaving them in together until they do. They are funny together like an old married couple...Im at a loss what to do about no bubble nest. If they were any more conditioned they would be at the Olympics. Did you get set up yet? and are you still coming to Calgary next month? looks like lots of people interested in your spawns and rightly so.


----------



## MattsBettas

Catching up on my own journal... 

Yea, plan is to go to Calgary, but I'm going to call it tentative but likely since things that are out of my control could pop up. I hope I can. 

This pair is so strange. They were conditioned well and were super receptive to each other, but three days in the spawn tank and nothing. The female got some damage on the first day, then on the second day there was a lot of flirtiness and practise wrapping and a bunch of dropped eggs, but never any spawn. And now they're just friends. Oh well. I'll pull them today and recondition hard for a week.


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## PetMania

Merry Christmas Matts!


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## MattsBettas

You too, Pet =).


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## dramaqueen

Merry Christmas, Matt!!


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## MattsBettas

Merry Christmas everyone, if you're celebrating! 

Spike passed sometime yesterday or last night =(. He was such a beautiful fish. I really don't know what happened, but I still feel guilty... I feel guilty when any of my fish die though. That makes me sad, I remember picking him and his sister (who died last month) up at CJ's house almost a year ago now and watching them continue to grow, his sister live through a sorority collapse, multiple tank changes, and more. He died with a warm five gallon to himself. I don't know what I'm going to do with the tank... Probably put one of my fry in it.


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## dramaqueen

I'm sorry for your loss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattsBettas

Christmas was awesome. I saw the whole family, and we had a big dinner of turkey, cranberry sauce, cabbage rolls, mashed potatoes, gravy, salad, and veggies, all homemade, mostly by my grandmother. For desert we had all the homemade cookies and squares and things we always do on Christmas, which are always great. And then we had out 11:00 turkey buns... I don't know if anyone else does that but they are amazing.

I got some extra money (which I assure you will be spent on fish), some books, and clothes. 

Fish related... I lost a fry today (and Spike). Jumped out of his jar into the tub, I put him back in the jar, and he was dead shortly after. I don't know. It's too bad, he was nice and I think he was one Truong wanted. 

Merry Christmas everyone =) I'm off to bed.


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## logisticsguy

Sorry about Spike. He was a cool fish and had a good life with you. We had a great Christmas dinner and all my kids were here. I ate way too much as usual. Lots of gifts it was fun except the belly aching from mom in law about how I have to many fish tanks. If they only knew I want about twice as many, oh well. Too bad about the fry jumping.


----------



## dramaqueen

We had cabbage rolls Christmas eve. With mashed potatoes.


----------



## TruongLN

Sorry about Spike Matt =[

Hopefully you can make it out to Calgary.


----------



## MattsBettas

I hope so too, chances are high. I'll get pictures up shortly, but I kind of wish this was in a month and not Friday... The fish are still small! Truong are you ok with little fish? They'll need lots of careful water changes and won't quite be ready for sorority life. 

I got a group of five endlers yesterday to put in Spike's old tank. They are quite a change from bettas, they are super active and move randomly... It's like watching a video in fast forward. I love them though, they are colorful, funny, and I missed watching the behavior of fish in groups... This is the first time in months I've owned fish other than bettas (and snails... But those don't count). 

I was talking to the guy who sold me them while he was netting them (which took a while because of heir speed and my specific request of a 2:3 male:female ratio) and I told him that I came here because it was the only place I had ever seen sell females, and he told me that it was because the wholesalers like to hang on to them because they don't want people breeding their own. That's what I figured, but it kinda makes me sad... I mean, endlers are either critically endangered or extinct in the wild (some smart person decided to build a garbage dump beside the locality they inhabit)... The more people breeding them the better. But that just shows how selfish people can be. 

Plan is to breed these guys and start a small colony. I want more males, they are beautiful and some of the colors they show are way more vibrant then they are on bettas. All the girls look pregnant, but I have no clue when they'll drop. According to Seriously fish they rarely eat their young, which is a good thing, especially until I get used to determining when they are due. Once I plant the tank I shouldn't have to worry about it anyways.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yea I used to have endlers. Unfortunately I only found males so I had no hope of helping them produce. So I ended up just doing a project by crossing then with fancy guppies. 

All my endlers died of old age though. And one of Popeye. No I have a line of hybrid guppies. They are really nice though and never eat their young. They are snakeskin with some vibrant endler markings. Some look like tiger endlers but larger fins too.


----------



## MattsBettas

Cool. I could have had males for a long time now but I wanted girls so I could breed them. These guys seem pretty healthy and the store I got them from individually quarentined all of their tanks, so I'm hoping they stay healthy.


----------



## MattsBettas

Happy New Year's everybody! Wishing everyone the best in 2014.


----------



## TruongLN

Of course I'm okay with little babies ^-^
I've got a tank set up waiting for their arrival. 
Happy new year too Matt!!


----------



## MattsBettas

*Fish died, rant time.*

I am so far beyond pissed and frustrated right now. I'm losing my mind. 

My ONE remaining male, and F2 male from my blue pineapple/yellow spawn died spontaneously today. In a jar, happy as can be, eating... No signs or symptoms. Then BAM, he's dead. No. My freaking fish need to know that they aren't allowed to do that. I've worked every single day for four months raising them, growing food for them, doing water changes, etc, and I get a spawn of 7, two dead fry in a week, and nothing to breed into F2 WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF DOING THIS. I feel like I'm done right now. I swear I am very seriously considering dropping the plan of selling most of the fry from this spawn on Friday and letting a couple people down (but until they are sold they are my fish to do what I want with) and just keeping them all like a selfish... person until I have a F2 spawn from either the original F1 dad or the tiny, ventral less (at this point I honestly don't care and will not hesitate to breed it to continue the line, it's almost certainly environmental anyways) thing swimming around the spawn tank that I can only pray turns out to be a male. But what do I do if that fry is a girl or the F1 male dies before I can breed him? This line won't die, I swear, I love it too much... I just don't know where I would go. Probably time to price out imports again, despite the fact that I can't see myself being able to afford it. 

This is the kinda thing that makes me think about dropping everything and starting fresh with wild type livebearers and killifish. They're all practically identical and they probably wouldn't die at the drop of a hat. And even if they did they just seem soooo much more replaceable then a single and only male that I bred and raised myself. Hopefully we don't have too many diehard killi or livebearer fans reading this lol. 

TL;DR (does a post that short even warrant that? Whatever, I doubt you really wanted to read my rant)-

F2 (AND ONLY) male fry died. Don't know why or what to do now. 




Apologies if that was too much or too dramatic... That isn't how it's supposed to come across, hopefully you just get the point of how I'm feeling.


----------



## dramaqueen

Aww, I'm so sorry for the loss of your fish!


----------



## logisticsguy

I feel your frustration Matt. Been there myself. Lots of time energy and money put in with little results at least in my case. Don't worry about letting me or anyone else down your priority is line continuation that is important to you. Very sad about the spontaneous deaths. Ive had a couple go this way and never really figured out why as there was no obvious reason. Hang in there.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

That is one of the main reasons I got out of splendens. I had too many just suddenly drop dead on me for no apparent reason. It is so emotionally draining to do everything right and have nothing but bad luck. 

Honestly taking a break from bettas could be what you need. I will say I had a lot of fun with my killifish and Australian natives. They gave me a real confidence boost when I was having difficulties with my bettas, and in this hobby it is very easy to start doubting yourself when you do have continued problems. 

Sorry that you lost your male. It's always sad to lose them, particularly when they are ones you have bred yourself and poured all your hopes and dreams into.


----------



## BettaLover1313

I'm very sorry for the loss of your fish!


----------



## TruongLN

I'm sorry for all of the frustration. 
I hope you can feel better, don't stress yourself out too much. 
Things happen that we can't stop 
Keep on, keeping on!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. I'm really not as frustrated about the fish as I am coming dangerously close to losing the opportunity to continue the line. Fish die, stuff happens... Losing an entire line hurts though. 

CJ, yea, after producing healthy fish working the line is most important to me. I want to see the genes work and see what I can do with the EE and stuff. 

LBF- The sudden deaths are one of the reasons I hate splendens. I think it was you who theorized that fish could probably have heart attacks or something... I think there's got to be something like that since they really shouldn't just drop dead without signs or symptoms. My endlers are kind of meant to be a break from splendens for me, they are pretty much the opposite in behavior, ease of breeding, etc, and if one of them dies it's sad but not frustrating. I could see myself bringing in some different killies and some of the more rare livebearers like limia and such but I'll always have bettas with me, they're close to my heart and I'm kinda in too deep. 

Truong and CJ- I'll need to do some thinking but I will most likely be keeping all of these fish and growing them out to adult/breed able size before I sell them, and I will sell them once I get an F2 spawn. I'm really sorry but you guys will get these fish eventually.


----------



## TruongLN

Do not worry about it at all!
I understand and can absolutely wait


----------



## MattsBettas

Spawn tank is set up and ready for tomorrow... Gonna try the shock method on the reds and see if I can get any luck, since he previous owner successfully got a spawn that way and she recommended trying it. 

Also did my water changes today, I'm exhausted. I'm going to start dosing my tanks with seachem flourish tomorrow, as of yet all of my tanks have been walstad method and now that I have one bare bottomed with hornwort (LOTS of hornwort), moss, and floaters (all kinda tossed in there) I want to give proper ferts a try. Hopefully they give me some healthy, strong plants. I really like how I'm doing it now- all floaters! no rooted. Keeps water quality high, looks clean, and is super easy. 

Next plant on my list is water sprite. It's my favorite plant, but all of it on my September shipment died =(. It's also surprisingly hard to find at local fish stores for such an easy plant.


----------



## MattsBettas

This pair, I swear... -_- 

What is this, dropping eggs under the nest and eating them. Cuz I'm pretty sure that's what you've done for the second time in two weeks. 

Ugh, I shoulda done livebearers.


----------



## Mahsfish

If you every consider switching to breeding other fish. And got lots of space and tanks. The more aggressive rout with cichlids is the way to go. I love em. Or if not angels are real good too.


----------



## Mahsfish

Haha. Just thought I'd throw it out there. 

But that's sucks Matt. Hopefully the next time. I know it gets frustrating. I failed a couple times breeding. I think I'm staying away from bettas for a while. Gonna stop breeding all together. And just keep one large 100-200 gallon tank due to school and sports with lack of time.


----------



## Aus

As far as rants go, that was pretty epic, lol, and beyond understandable, really. My condolences, I know how it is to feel just gutted.. 



MattsBettas said:


> This is the kinda thing that makes me think about dropping everything and starting fresh with wild type livebearers and killifish. They're all practically identical and they probably wouldn't die at the drop of a hat.


Wish I had something more cheerful to add. But that is -exactly- what happened with the five strohi I got from LBF a while back. I checked them last thing at night (we'd just moved house that day) and they were happy as clams - went back first thing in the morning and all were stone dead. But the shrimps in the tub were all a-ok. I was just beyond devastated.. Still haven't worked out what I did wrong.  It really sucked the joy out of fishkeeping, for a while there. But - time heals all, as it were, and I am sure it will for you, too.


----------



## MattsBettas

The only cichlids I've ever liked are apistogrammas and rams, and even then I still like lots of other fish way more. Of course I've never had any interest in the Africans that would love my water. If I was to move to different fish it would be wild type livebearers, wild bettas, and some other rare micro fish with emphasis on endangered, critical, and extinct in wild species. I love bettas but there's so much I want to do. I'm lucky to have the time to pretty much do what I want though- really, I'm just getting started. 

Aus, that's awful. Losing a whole group of fish overnight would be unimaginably painful. You probably didn't do anything wrong, to be honest. Stuff like that is rarely the fishkeepers fault. 

I don't feel like doing anything today.


----------



## Mahsfish

Apistos are really nice.


----------



## logisticsguy

Speaking of sudden death syndrome, had Lambchop in a spawn tank with Bullwinkle. They were just fine at 6pm. Checked them at 10 pm and Chop was dead. She looked alive not floating just not moving, no bites, trauma or anything. It really looks like her heart just stopped. I don't get why this happens, spawning is very stressful for sure but holy cow. My giant female stock takes another beating. Grumpy and frustrated I am.


----------



## MattsBettas

You have spawns from her, right? 

Yea there's got to be some sort of sudden death thing fish can have too. Like an aneurism or heart failure in humans, but in fish. I can only imagine it's possible. To be honest if my fish are going to die I would rather it be like that, suddenly and without pain or suffering. It hurts more for me but less for the fish. I would rather they just don't die though. And of course the ones that die are always the breeders or favorites. 

My red male blew the best best I've ever seen. I haven't yanked them yet and will probably wait another 24 hours, depending in how they are doing.


----------



## MattsBettas

*Wanted fish list- in pictures!*

So, I have personal notes on fish and plants I want, tank layout and organization, plans, etc, and it thought that now would be an appropriate time to share the things I want to do outside of the domesticated splendens world. These are the fish that I would eventually (and by that, I really mean eventually) like to own. First I'll need an ro/di system and space and time and money. I'm a patient person though, and recognize that rushing things only ever leads to failure and/or burnout in the fish world. 

Notice that many are CARES listed (if you know what that is- if not, research it- it's a nice organization) or endangered/critically endangered/extinct in the wild. I would like to be part of preserving these, fish are something I'm passionate about and there aren't exactly tons of people working on fish species preservation. Seeing species go, whatever they may be, is one of the saddest things that can happen IMO. 

The list is in no particular order, though there are some I definitely want before others. Oh and, uh, some of these are from LittleBettaFish cuz to be honest they're way nicer then anything on the web, I'll credit her and hope she doesn't mind haha. Names of the species are underneath the picture. 

So, let's start!

*Wild bettas*

_Betta persephone_ (LittleBettaFish)

_Betta miniopinna_

_Betta sp. "apiapi"_ (LittleBettaFish)

_Betta albimarginata_

_Betta channoides_

_Betta simplex_

_Betta mahachai_

_Betta macrostoma_

*Livebearers*

_Heterandria formosa_ (Least killifish)

_Zoogoneticus tequila_ 

*Other fish*

_Danio margaritatus_ (Celestial pearl danio, CPD, Galaxy raspbora)

_Microrasbora erythromicron_ (Emerald raspbora)


_Parosphromenus bintan_ (Licourice gourami species) 

*Inverts*

_Neocaridina cf. zhangjiajiensis var. white_ (Snowball shrimp) 

_Neocaridina heteropoda var. Orange_ (Pumpkin shrimp)

_Neocaridina cf. zhangjiajiensis var. blue_ (Blue pearl shrimp)

_Neocardina heteropoda_ (Red cherry shrimp, RCS)

_Tylomelania var. orange_ (Orange rabbit snail) 

And, uh, my favorite aquatic creature picture, cuz I'm uploading pics right now. It's a nudibranch sea slug species of some type. A big part of me wants it as my avatar, so don't use it lol. 


...How beautiful was that post. I think part of why I did that was because I wanted all my dream species in one place, ha!


----------



## Aus

Ahaha, I posted that same pic in the nudibranch thread.. It's my fave pic of those as well. I said it looked like a character from the Wiggles.

I am glad to see macrostoma on your fishwish-list. From the get go, those have been the ones I have wanted to keep. My utterly disastrous foray into wilds put me off a bit.. but lately I've been eyeballing my big tank and thinking... it's really nice and tannin-y and has a lid.... heh. Anyway, I do love them to bits.


----------



## MattsBettas

Nudibranch thread? Got to go find it. I think I may have actually gotten that picture from there. 

The mac's biggest turn off is their price. As far as I know they are the biggest fish on that list, and probably the most expensive too.

Edit- I have an endler fry! I only saw one, likely there are others but I didn't look. Looks 100% healthy and surprisingly large compared to what I'm used to dealing with. I'll feed them extra tonight and hope he/she survives-as I said before they aren't supposed to be cannibalistic.


----------



## Aus

Yeah.. is a bit of a downer, pricewise. Occasionally I'll see a pair for much cheaper.. but usually they're juveniles and not sexed. :\ and I would want a matched pair rather than end up with two or three of the same sex. 

I would consider my big tank almost macro-ready, though. I actually think I'll give them a shot this year, if the tank's system remains as healthy as it has been so far. 

I see Jodi-Lea sometimes had wild caught pairs available. I'd probably go for those, so if I distribute fry (oh boy, counting chickens there or what!) locally, it'll be adding to the captive gene pool. 

I was really doing so well with the strohi, they were all as healthy and happy as can be before whatever happened. I wish to hell I knew what it was, so I could at least -learn- from it.. sigh. But yeah, I kept them pretty happy for a time, so I feel I could probably do the same for a pair of macros. 

The main pain in the butt for me will be keeping the live food alive. Blackworms gross me out! I loathe them, lol.

eta: Congrats on the fry!


----------



## LittleBettaFish

If you're patient and have the resources, I've found most goals are achievable in this hobby.

I never ever thought I would get the chance to own Betta miniopinna and yet there's a pair on their way to me. 

Betta livida is another one that you should add to your list. I think it is as endangered as both persephone and miniopinna. 

I think the best species to work with are those that are not only threatened in the wild, but also scarce in the hobby. Those are the ones that really need our protection because they are the ones most likely to be lost for good. 

Sad that there seem to be quite a number of fish species that now fit into this category.

Aus, I know a number of people breeding macs in Victoria. There is a Wild Bettas Australia FB group that you can join that would put you in touch with owners/breeders of macs.


----------



## Aus

Awesome, LBF, thanks. Will hassle you for the info when I feel ready for stock, just need a few more things for the tank before I'd feel right about it.

Hey Matt, if this dream happens and I get fry, I'll give you some for free. =P


----------



## logisticsguy

Good post Matt the pics are great. I have to agree the wilds are an awesome bunch of fish.


----------



## dramaqueen

Aww, I'm sorry about Lambchop!


----------



## Quinn

Wow that macrostoma pic is wild. And omg the nudibranch pic is too cute. I think its wonderful that you want to dedicate yourself to the dwindling species! Good on you Matt, it certainly is a shame to lose any species.


----------



## Fenghuang

Sorry about both your fish, Matt, LG.

I think it's great that you want to work with those endangered species. They really need all the help that they can get.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks everyone. Those are my bucket list fish, and some will definitely be way easier to find than others. I think if I was to shift my focus to fish like that, my domestic betta breeding would continue, just on a smaller scale- they are a passion of mine so I couldn't just stop. 

Aus, that very nice of you. Good luck sourcing a pair and keeping them happy and healthy, but you shouldn't have any problems with that . 

LBF, I definitely agree about keeping the fish that are under threat in the wild but have few captive keepers. I mean, endlers are almost if not completely extinct in the wild, but so many people love and breed them that they really aren't threatened as a species. Wild bettas and the _Zoogoneticus tequila_ (named for a volcano, actually, not the drink), on the other hand, have a smaller fan base and are more threatened if more people don't step up. 

Speaking of endlers... I have to go put the fry in a trap.


----------



## Mahsfish

Congrats on the endlers. Do you have black bars? Or yellow jackets, chili... Ect


----------



## MattsBettas

Black bars. Standard, classic, and my favorite.

One of those bucket list fish might be come sooner then I expected... Someone on my local forum just posted that they will be doing an order from a wholesaler/store and wanted to know if anyone else was interested... Their stock list had _Betta channoides_ listed at 35$ a pair. Off to talk to the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to wilds and see if they would work for me. I'm not getting my hopes up, but, well...


----------



## MattsBettas

Unless anyone wants to talk me out of it overnight, I think I'm going to go for the channoides. I've loved them for a long time, and have the opportunity to get them now- Why not? 

So excited. It's a small dream of mine to own wild species, and I knew for a fact it would happen eventually.


----------



## MattsBettas

The channoides are in the order .


----------



## Fenghuang

Congrats, Matt! 

Did you set up a tank yet? What does the tank look like?


----------



## logisticsguy

Awesome your getting channoides Matt. I think they are a gorgeous wild betta.

How long until your order comes in?


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks! Order should come in on the week of the twentieth, so I have a bit of time to get the tank (which I haven't even started setting up yet, Feng) ready and stuff. Then one of the mods on the local forum will pick them up at the airport, and we'll all meet up and get our fish. Very exciting stuff. I might see if I can buy some watersprite off someone when we go meet lol. 

I won second place in the Holiday Song Contest! The money will probably be used to get something for the channoides, and will certainly help out a little. I honestly wasn't expecting to win anything, I mostly just entered for fun and because it's always worth a try. A very nice surprise after a long day!


----------



## MattsBettas

Hey guys, sorry if I haven't been on or posting quite as much as normal. I have tons of work to do this week and nasty deadlines hahaha. 

I haven't got any more news on the shipment date, but hopefully it will be soon enough. I hope even more that they arrive safe and healthy, but I'm not at all worried since this guy is experienced and they're going to be in with hundreds of dollars worth of fish... So there isn't exactly much room for error. That's my logic at least. I haven't even started getting their tank ready, I can't decide if I want it on my rack or on my night table.

My endler fry is a week old today. She's looking good, and if my bettas grew at the rate she is I would be a much happier person. I think it's a girl because she has a fat anal fin not a gonopodium, but I'm not sure if gonopodiums develop or what lol. I'll probably let her out of the breeding trap in a week or two. 

The other two female endlers are fat with babies. One of them looks ready to explode and I have been expecting both of them to drop every day for almost a week.


----------



## MattsBettas

My one endler girl is like a floating blimp, I can't believe I don't have a drop yet. I'm not complaining, it's just weird because the first girl that dropped was not nearly as large. I bet I'll get more then one fry though lol. Speaking of fry, the one girl is doing great, and growing fantastically. I think I'm going to keep her separate until she grows enough to be sexually mature, then I'll drop the nicer of the two males into the breeding trap for a day so I know who the dad is. 

The pick up date is tentatively set for next Friday, the 24th. 

I'm so ready for the weekend -_-. Doesn't help that I went through some of the day thinking it was Friday.


----------



## TruongLN

Glad to hear your Endlers are doing so awesome ^-^. 
Endlers are my favourite live bearer. 

Don't you hate when you think it's Friday when it isn't?


----------



## lilnaugrim

From what I've read gonopodium's should be existant when they are born. You may need a magnifying glass to see them but they should be there. I've read and heard that sometimes you have late bloomers but for the most part, you should be able to sex them right after birth if you can see their tiny fins. My good LFS also told me the same thing about my guppies, that sometimes the males develop later. However with the guppies even the ones that are over a month old, they are all females lol. Good luck with your Endlers and the Channoides!


----------



## MattsBettas

Truong, it's the worst. 

Thanks lil, that's good to know! 

So excited for the channoides. I have to put in an amazon order to get a sponge filter and a pump for their tank.


----------



## TruongLN

Do channoides spawn like splendens?


----------



## Mahsfish

Endlers and guppies are usually pretty easy to start sexing when they are small. Just look for a gonopodium on males. And a fan shaped fin in the same area on fensle s. Though sometimes female tuck it in and can look like a gonopodium. Also I noticed with he black bars that black is the first colors to come in on fry. So if you see any black bars coming in on the fries body then most likely a male.


----------



## MattsBettas

Kinda. They spawn the same way (wrap) but instead of raising them in a bubble nest the male incubates them in his mouth for 12 days or something. I think all betta species either bubble nest or mouthbrood, and I've heard of some species that can do both.


----------



## TruongLN

Mouth brooding sounds like it'd be really cool to witness!


----------



## lilnaugrim

I was just proven wrong by my guppies. I just found d five of them finally starting to form their gonopodium or at least the elongated part of it. Males will have more pointed anal fins than females but the elongated part of the gonopodium doesn't form ipuntil just after a month and a half it seems! Now that I know what I'm looking for it should be easier. But either way, males are still more colorful so that helps too.


----------



## MattsBettas

I got a piece of goldvine, a sponge filter, and ordered an airpump for the channoides tank today. I got the tank set up too-







I love the wood, it fits perfectly and fills the space quite nicely. I'm weighing it down with a container of gravel right now, so that ugly thing isn't permanent. I swear it looks a lot better without the glare from the light and the gravel bin thing. I still need to add the sponge filter, ial, and plants (watersprite, when I get it, and some assorted floaters). 

So excited~


Oh and by the way the tank on the left is low because I'm in he middle of water changes.


----------



## TruongLN

It looks awesome, Matt!! Loving the piece of wood.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks Truong! I love it too, It was a good find. I think it looks better in real life. 

I'm so excited for the channoides. I don't know why, but I am. Friday cannot come soon enough, unless my wood isn't sunken by then :/. I'm working on getting the tank's cycle to start rolling, I added stability today and have the sponge filter (not in pic) going at full blast. Water's holding steady at 74 (wilds like it a bit cooler). I just need to toss in the plants, add the clingwrap, change the water (though I'll do that before adding everything else),a nd add the ial, then I should be all set. 

Oh and I actually got some nice- like, NOT iPad- pics of the fish. I'll try to get them up for tomorrow, they're mainly for my site.


----------



## TruongLN

Why wouldn't you be excited!? It's a big thing!
You have a site?


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm working on a weebly site. It's been a work in progress for a few months now, I really just work on it when I find the time haha. I'm still deciding where I want to go with it in quite a few ways, so far it has a store, a blog, a home page (obviously), and then some betta information and info on other fish I keep, among other things. 

Oh and a few days ago I learnt from Hallyx that Seachem Prime does _not_ convert ammonia to ammonium, like everyone seems to think and say, it, to quote Hallyx (hope she/he(?) doesn't mind, they explain it better than I ever could) "locks up the ammonia in a molecule Seachem calls Prime/ammonia complex (aminomethanesulfinate). This molecule decays over the next 24 to 48 hours releasing the ammonia back into the water". I found that neat, it's "common knowledge" that prime makes ammonia the less toxic ammonium, but really that's just a myth that started somewhere and was shared by people including myself. Practically, though, I don't think it makes a difference- the plants and bacteria use the ammonia from the molecule and it isn't harmful to the fish either way.


----------



## summersea

Huh who would have thought that about Prime! I have heard the "myth" so many times. It is amazing how word spreads like wild fire even if it isn't true ;-) But as you said, as long as it makes the water safe for my fish I am happy with it! Thanks for sharing that tidbit if info!


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, that was my thought. Of course, prime shouldn't be what you rely on to keep ammonia safe, but it can be a useful tool. 

Oh, and, uh, I've said over and over that I would pull out the big camera. I did. All except last bred and raised by myself.


----------



## summersea

Gorgeous fish! I love the EE! If they weren't so expensive I would definitely get one!


----------



## TruongLN

Wow Matt they're absolutely beautiful. You did an amazing job 
I hope you're planning on still breeding splendens, because you did great.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys! Truong that means a lot.

Truong, my barely planned out but very much imagined future plans do include some splendens. I definitely want to continue the blue pineapple line and do my thing with them, cuz, umm... Look at those fish, I'm still not tired of those colors. I want orange dalmations as well. So yea, I'll probably work one or two lines but I think the majority of the fish added to the "collection" (I absolutely hate using that word for live animals) will be wild betta species or micro species or other cool little rare things. That'll mean I take things slow because of a few factors, but patience is so important in this hobby and building up slowly sucks in some ways but makes burnout unlikely. Plus I have plenty of time to do what I want to do.


----------



## TruongLN

I would love it if you did orange Dalmatians! They're one of my dream fish!
I had an orange Dalmatian Plakat for three days before he died of columnaris. 
It absolutely broke my heart.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Gorgeous fish! Love their colors!


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea orange dalmations are so cool. I love them. I'm sorry your boy passed . I think I say a pic of him somewhere on here and he looked great. 

Thanks BettaLover1313!

Is it bad that I'm actually looking in to this? Punch in 12 in all three boxes to see what I want to make. http://www.garf.org/tank/BuildTank.asp

I finished the channoides tank today. It looks fairly decent. I want some sort of substrate though, it's bare bottom and boring and apparently having a substrate is good for wilds. I'll probably just go with plain old sand, it's plenty natural looking to fit the theme of the tank and is cheap- believe me, if I'm gonna pay for pricy plant substrate I'm gonna use it in a nice tank with nice plants, which this is not. As of now there's hornwort, moss, and floaters in "duckweed quarantine" (throw them in a little bin of water and rinse all the duckweed out later), which is what I do to control my duckweed. I don't mind it in one or two tanks but I don't want it in all of them. I also got the ial in (which I need to order more of), and did a 100% water change to get all of the nasty driftwood soaking water out. Sponge filter is on (with my new airpump that arrived from amazon today, a jw fusion that is awesomely quiet), and stability is added to get a cycle rolling. One benefit to having hard, alkaline water is that I'll have a hard time getting the water acidic enough to kill a cycle, so I can cycle my wilds' tanks, which some cannot.

So excited for tomorrow. I think this is the most ready I've ever been for fish.


----------



## lilnaugrim

I know it's not your picture but it's still an awesome picture of them! And your spawn is looking amazing now! Today's the day for the Chanoides, right?!!! That's super exciting!

And a side note, the JW Fusion air pump is the one that I have lol, sorry I never PM'd you about it or anything but I had offered it on my journal a few pages back. I know it can get pretty dense in there sometimes. But glad you like the air pump, it is a nice one!


----------



## TruongLN

Today is the day Matt!!!!!
I am so excited for you! Post photos as soon as you can!


----------



## MattsBettas

Yes, today is the day! According to the guy who put on the order, all of the fish are here, "happy and healthy". So glad. I'm going to get some watersprite from him too, which is very nice of him. 

Lil, it's fine that you didn't PM, I probably would have not gotten the pump anyway. I think the shipping would have made it a better deal just to order a larger, new one from amazon. But thank you for the offer haha. 

Truong, I'll get pics tonight, but don't expect them to be pretty just yet! They'll still be stressed from shipping and will probably need some time with good food and nice water to color up. I'm fully prepared for them to be grey and ugly today, I'll jut be happy for them to be in my tank alive.

Their tank still isn't as dark as I want it to be so more leaves and maybe a roobios tea bag or some peat. I added the floaters and the fish will be here at around 6:45!


----------



## TruongLN

I'm sure even with dull colours they're look amazing, I am just too excited to meet them!!


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## MattsBettas

They're here!!! Both perfectly packed, looking healthy, and a tad stressed. Currently drip acclimating to their tank, which actually looks pretty nice. I got some watersprite too (quite a bit more then expected!) and threw a bit in. The rest is in my red hmpk's 3G tank, there's so many plants she can barely move now lol. They're tiny, not 100% sure but I think there's still growing to do. They're super cute though. 

Crappy iPad pics, I didn't feel like going through the trouble of using the dslr for pics taken through bags. Those will come later.

Girl


Boy


As you can see they are a bit pale, but otherwise look quite good. I want to get some food into them, which I'll do tomorrow (I don't feed fish the day they get in, but I might try just one pellet to see if they'll take). Hopefully they'll color up and be good.


----------



## logisticsguy

Terrific pics Matt. Excited your wilds got to you in such good shape.

Fine job packaging them, they look excellent. Your spawn is just stunning.


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## LittleBettaFish

Glad they arrived safe and well. Nothing more nerve-wracking than having fish shipped. I hate that moment right before you open the parcel and you are praying nothing has gone wrong. 

I imagine they should settle in pretty quickly. Channoides are quite adaptable and very friendly once they work out who provides the food. 

I hope you enjoy your first pair of wilds, and who knows, even with your harder water you might get surprised with some fry.


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## TruongLN

They look great! Very cute, I'm glad they're healthy ^-^


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## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. I'm super glad they arrived alive and well, and that they both seem to be healthy. That's really all I could ask. 

They already look quite nice, they are very shy but graceful at the same time. They boy stay close to each other the majority of the time, which I'm taking is a good sign that they don't hate each other haha. They both (reluctantly) ate today, I fed frozen brine shrimp. It wasn't easy and was even harder to do before they recognized it as food. I'm hoping they realize me being near the tank means food and start coming to the top where I can try out pellets. 

I really hope they breed. I know for sure it won't be right away, but it would be awesome if I could get some channoides babies and get them out to other hobbyists. I'm loving the wilds so far.


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## Hallyx

LittleBettaFish said:


> ... I hate that moment right before you open the parcel....


Shrodinger's fish. 










"I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it," 
~~~ Erwin Shrodinger


http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/erwin_schrodinger.html#fgX1ofEG8YIiJw8W.99​


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## MattsBettas

:-D

Channoides are doing awesome and ate lots this morning and last night, and became visibly less shy throughout yesterday and today. I love watching them behave as a pair, it's a sharp contrast to what I'm used to in splendens, and also very different from the "chase each other until they mate with us" attitude the endlers seem to have. I need to go pick up some frozen bloodworms for them since right now until my white worm culture is producing well the only thing I have that they'll eat is frozen brine shrimp. 

Macklemore's performance and the mass wedding at the Grammys was awesome. So nice to see things like that.


----------



## TruongLN

Any photos of the channoides with their full colour??


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## MattsBettas

On the card in my Dad's camera haha. I'll try to get them uploaded for tomorrow .


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## LittleBettaFish

MattsBettas said:


> I love watching them behave as a pair, it's a sharp contrast to what I'm used to in splendens, and also very different from the "chase each other until they mate with us" attitude the endlers seem to have.


That will be until they start trying to spawn and then you will see why so many people compare this species to guppies. The females seem to have an almost insatiable sexual appetite. My channoides female had two males that lived with her and she'd spawn with one, and then while he was holding go and spawn with the other. I had to separate her as even with two males they just weren't getting a break. 

In your water they might not, but don't think they aren't on the same level of promiscuity as guppies or endlers!


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## MattsBettas

Laying in bed, listening to the fish jump and hit the clingwrap (at least I think~), and losing my mind...


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## MattsBettas

I got the female channoides to eat a pellet today. One pellet, but it's a start. They fasted yesterday so I tried throwing a few in and she reluctantly choked one down. 

My red girl that I want so badly to breed is getting messed up. Somehow she's getting injured from something in the tank, she has scales loose, a chunk out of her side, a rip in her tail, and some bloating issues. I'm very confused as to how it's happening as the only things in her tank are live plants and a heater. Tomorrow I'll make it bare, just hornwort and the heater, add epsom salts, and hope for the best. 

If she passes (which she isn't allowed to do until I breed her at least once) I'll move the one girl in the 20g into her tank and redo the 20. It's been on my list of things to do for a while now. I'm going to tear it all down, and everything is getting a through cleaning, the dirt is gone, and I'm starting over with sand, watersprite, hornwort, and some other easy plants. I'll stock it with endlers once the 5g downstairs reaches maximum capacity, and then either splendens juvies or (better yet) a pair of one of the betta species like ocelatta or simplex that is more tolerable of my hard water or some other fish I am yet to discover or to tired to think of. I'm sick if the tank I have right now, the fish loves it but I don't. It'll be so much work to do. Definitely a weekend job. I want it done but I just don't want to do it haha. My excuse so far has been that I don't have anywhere for the girl, but once that changes...


I'm off to bed now. Sorry I wasn't on tons this week, I had a bunch of deadlines to meet and tests to study for and other fun things.


----------



## logisticsguy

Good luck Matt I hope the girl pulls through. Not much else you can do.


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## MattsBettas

I cleaned up the girl's tank yesterday and added epsom salts. I also gave her a kanaplex and paraguard (kanaplex works internally, paraguard should hopefully be like an external antiseptic for the wounds) bath, which stressed her out a lot but I did see visible improvement. I am also dosing kanaplex orally just because I need to know that she is getting it in her system ASAP. She's always been a healthy eater anyways so she doesn't mind. 

Her fins are were/are melting (the bath helped that), and she is bloated and could be entering dropsy. It's like she has some sort of bizarre flesh eating bacteria. I'll keep up treatment and hope for the best, she looks better than she did yesterday so that's a good sign. 

I swear these fish are making wilds and rare livebearers and other micro fish look more and more appealing each day.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

*whispers* That's how it starts. 

Hopefully she pulls through. Sounds like there is a lot going on. 

Speaking of wilds, how are your channoides going?


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## MattsBettas

> *whispers* That's how it starts.


Haha, yea I kinda figured that. I'll just take things in stride and see where things take me, but I can see some more wilds and less splendens in my future...

The channoides are doing great. I got around to picking up bloodworms for them, and they absolutely love them. The female had a pot belly by the end of it because she stole half the ones I put in for the male. If someone just looked at the female they would probably think she's the ugliest fish I have, but she's one of my favorites- she may not have the most (read: any) color but she has a beautiful shape and her personality is hilarious. And then add in those buggy little eyes haha.

I can see the eggs developing inside of her. Maybe I'll get fry someday...

Edit: Oh and the red girl is still doing fine and might even be improving. She got another kanaplex/paraguard bath today and is still eating the kanaplex laced pellets. I really want her to pull through.

Edit 2: I'm pretty sure I've had the same avatar for a year now. I miss that fish.


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## ynahanson

Very excited, they look awesome


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Haha channoides (and albimarginata) have this endearing look to them. The females do colour up quite significantly when they are in breeding dress, otherwise theirs is a more subtle beauty. However, I find that is the case with basically all of the mouthbrooding species. 

I hope they do spawn for you eventually as raising wilds is so much fun.


----------



## Fenghuang

Hope the red female pulls through.

A year ago, I did not even know there were different species of wild bettas. Thanks to you guys, I can't wait til the day I can set up my own tank for them.


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## MattsBettas

> Haha channoides (and albimarginata) have this endearing look to them. The females do colour up quite significantly when they are in breeding dress, otherwise theirs is a more subtle beauty. However, I find that is the case with basically all of the mouthbrooding species.
> 
> I hope they do spawn for you eventually as raising wilds is so much fun.


I've seen the female and male in full dress a couple of times and both are very beautiful and have quite the rich brick red color to them. Now they just need to actually breed while they're in their breeding dress haha. 

Fenghuang you should set up a wilds tank. I'm glad you discovered them. I was familiar with the fact that there are wild betta species from reading things on splendens, but had no clue about anything protaining to what hey actually were lol. 

Red girl is going downhill. Dropsy is definitely progressing and at this point I feel like I'm just providing palliative care, but I will keep up treatment and continue to hope for the best. I tried a methylene blue dip today- stressful for both me and the fish but hopefully it will help kill the flesh eating stuff on the outside of her body.


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## MattsBettas

Some interesting behavior from the channoides this afternoon. I caught them flaring, body wiggling, and the girl acting very obviously submissive after I got home so I kinda crawled out of my room and am now resisting the urge to go check in and see if it leads to anything more. 

Red girl is still hanging in there. Methylene blue dips are helping and the flesh eating bacteria seems to be slowing down. I do t really know where we're at with dropsy though, it seems to fluctuate but isn't as bad as it was on the third.


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## MattsBettas

I'll be shocked if I don't force myself to euthanize the red girl before the end of the weekend. Her physical condition hasn't really decreased (visibly) too much, but she's lazing around and sulking more and more. It'll be painful to see her go but at this point there isn't much else to try.

I told my Mum today that I could see myself going solely with wilds. I just need to get a job to make that happen haha.


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## LittleBettaFish

Trust me, wilds are just so much more rewarding than splendens. Not only do I love watching my fish, but I also feel like I am doing something worthwhile because of their fragile status in the wild. 

I love splendens and always look at Jodi-Lea's new videos whenever she posts them, but I found them to be heartbreaker fish. Just when I'd get attached to them, something would go wrong and they'd die. 

Sorry to hear about the red female. It's hard when you have to make that decision. Even when it is for the best it doesn't make it any easier.


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## Chesh

Ahhh, Red. So sorry about your girl. If anyone could get her through, it'd be you *hugs* 

Any updates on the channoides and their wiggly ways? I've been lurking about in silence for a while, but I'm 100% in love with those fish, am very much looking forward to keeping them one day - thanks for sharing your experiences with them for all of us lurkers! I hope they breed for you! <3


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## MattsBettas

LBF... You really are a big influence on me. I saw how you went from all (or mostly?) splendens to all wilds and love looking at your pics. I completely agree that splendens are the most inconvenient and awful fish when it comes to dying- this red girl gets me set on having spawns from her, refuses to breed twice, then goes and gets sick with some sort of bizarre disease. 

Chesh, thank you! I've seen you lurkin . The channoides are great, the male colored up to a very vibrant red and stayed that way, as opposed to the fluctuating between washed out and super dark he did the first week. No babies or spawning yet, but I'm optimistic. If you lived up here I would definitely send a pair your way first if I got them to breed . 

The red girl got a fairly extreme bath in a high dose of kanaplex, aquarium salt, and methylene blue yesterday. Hated every minute of it but I know that she's going to die if I don't do anything so I thought I might as well try. I think it helped with her external issues, but she is behaving even worse today. I'll put her down today or tomorrow save a remarkable recovery. 

And the red girl dying means cleaning out the 20g. Excited for it to be done but not excited to do it haha. 

There's two ten gallons for 15$ each on kijiji right now and they're close to me... So...


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## logisticsguy

Im cheering for your Red girl Matt. You really gave her every chance with the mb and kanaplex bath. If that doesn't help I don't know what could. I am with you on the frustrating nature of keeping splendens. When fish kept in optimum conditions and fed the best foods get sick, it can really be hard to stay optimistic. I have a theory that is maybe best detailed in a PM. I really like the look of the channoides and if you get a spawn would like to be on the list of buyers. Im hoping to get a very pure B. mahachaiensis group from my friend in samut sakhon province. They are not common even there and pollution combined with development has left them in some trouble. Plus they are pretty cool and unique fish.


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## MattsBettas

Shoot me he PM if you want, I would love to hear it. I hope you get the mahachaiensis- I'll definitely be wanting some . 

I had to go out for a few hours and the girl died. Got home and she was leaning up against some plants, eyes still clear and no snails on her- the only telltale sign that she was dead was that gill movement has ceased. I'm pretty upset about it, but to tell the truth I'm happy she went naturally. *sighs* Time to do the 20. 

She's helping solidify the decision to move away from splendens...


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## Chesh

*hugs*


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## MattsBettas

Guys the channoides are breeding! More updates to come later but it's to beautiful to not watch haha. Of course they're doing it in the most impossible place to take pics, but still, breeding!


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## logisticsguy

Yay that is fantastic Matt. Very exciting.


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## MattsBettas

Male swallowed today. Not surprised but a bit disappointed. Really though, I'm still looking at it as a win- they are happy enough to breed! 

So I got those two ten gallons... I put my self cloning crayfish (I never talk about her but she's still doing great) into one and the other is unused but tanks never go unused for long haha. The crayfish is loving it, it's a step up from the tub she had and has substrate and a better filter too. I'm hoping she'll berry and give me baby crayfish, but never any guarantees. I've had her for almost a year now, after a petstore employee was convincing enough to get us to get one for my brother's 20g. "It won't eat your fish," she said. "It won't eat your plants," she said. Lies. So I took her out of my brother's tank and threw her in a plastic tub. Then I started to kinda like her haha. 

I'm officially at the point where I have actual tanks on the floor... Just realized that.


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## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> I'm officially at the point where I have actual tanks on the floor... Just realized that.


Welcome to the club Matt! lol, I'm not only using my floor (well...I was) but also my small piano bench which is perfect for my 5.5 gallon haha.

Sucks about the male but you're right! Glad they are happy!


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## MattsBettas

Sooooo I redid the 20g today, took advantage of my long weekend (I get to sleep in on a Monday!) and tore it all out and replaced it with plain old sand. What a task. It took five hours or something and I still haven't planted it yet. It'll have whatever was in there before plus watersprite and hornwort. I'm excited to stock it- for now it'll probably just be ramshorns, random endler fry, and the girl that previously occupied it, but my plan is to eventually use it for a pair of larger wilds like unimaculata or ocelatta along with either cories or a pair of bristlenose plecos. Now that I have sand I feel more comfortable with cories. I want to get something a bit more unusual like false bandits and breed them 'cuz that's what I do haha. If I get them it will be from Spencer Jack, the Canadian wholesaler who I get the (well packed, healthy, amazing) channoides from, probably on the spring group order if the people on my local forum decide to do it. 

So much work but definitely worth it. God that tank was an eyesore, I was ashamed to have guests around it haha.


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## Hallyx

You must have really hated it to have done all that wet-work in the middle of this nasty winter. 

Pics when it fills in. (Goes without saying, eh?)


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## MattsBettas

I feel like I should be posting more... I just don't have anything to talk about, really. 

I went to my favorite lfs that's all the way across town today (I go whenever I'm over there) and checked out the stock... They have the neatest saltwater stuff (Eventually... Eventually. I could see myself with a low tech pico with some blue legged hermit crabs or something but eventually I WILL keep dwarf seahorses and clownfish, separately, of course, and likely not even at the same time), and some fish you don't see anywhere else. I loved the Dario dario ( http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/dario-dario/ ) , and seriously want some... But no more fish unless it's a dream species! 

...Until I get new shelves and all hell breaks loose.


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## LittleBettaFish

Dario dario are nice. I owned some a while ago and they are so small but so feisty. They also don't seem to mind a higher pH. However, it can be so hard to find females as they don't seem to be commonly sold in the hobby. I got mine through Jodi-Lea and she tried to get me a pair but I got all males. Sucks as I would have loved to have worked with them further. 

Another really nice species is:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/dario-sp-myanmar/


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## MattsBettas

Yea I tried looking around and seeing if I could sex any, and from what I could tell the vast majority were males with maybe one or two females if I was lucky. The store is really good with getting pairs and both sexes in, that's where I got my endlers... Another species that often only males are traded in.

Those look like a nice species too... Ugh there's so many nice fish out there.


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## LittleBettaFish

There is! It's so hard to limit yourself. I'm lucky in that most of the fish I like I probably would never be able to get into this country. But then you stumble across a species you've never seen before and you just get that twinge of want. 

It is such an addicting hobby haha. I wish someone had told me that before I first started.


----------



## MattsBettas

To tired to type up a proper post but... Let's go Canada!


----------



## MattsBettas

Got all of the water changes done today. Quite the task but it's something I don't mind doing. Other than that nothing much exciting is going on in the fish room (you guys know whenever I use the words "fish room" I really mean the set of shelves in my bedroom plus a couple of tanks, right? Haha.). Fish are still growing. Plants are still growing. Fish are still alive. No more babies. 

Something exciting IS happening in someone else's fish room though- look what (Albertan breeder friend) CJ (logisticsguy) bought!-







As I said on the aquabid thread I plan on buying some offspring from whatever spawn that guy makes and breeding them into my blue and yellow line. I'm really hoping he arrives alive. 

Winter is making me start to think about all the things I want to get done in the summer. I'm eager to get my set of shelves that (in my mind) hold 14 ten gallon tanks, haven't quite decided what they'll all be used for but it's me, I'll find something. That'll let me do basically whatever I want and gives me a whole lot of versatility. 

I'm so bored of winter. For me there's always a point where something just clicks and it's like "Yup. Ready for summer now.", and nothing seems more desirable then green grass and leaves on trees. I've hit that point.


----------



## TruongLN

SOOO jealous of CJ haha, I need him to breed this male so I can have some babies!


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## MattsBettas

I ran out and got a new bulb for the 20g today, one of the bulbs burned out sometime before I redid it. So now it's well lit, planted, fertilized, cycling, and partially stocked with a betta and some of my golden ramshorns. I've decided that once the three endlers I have growing out right now are larger than bite-sized they will go in there, and further offspring will too once they are big enough. The five gallon I have them in is pretty full right now, but they can go crazy in the 20, it's planted and I can just sell them off when there's too many. 

I have a buyer set to come tomorrow for one of the fry from the blue spawn. Excited but sad. I swore I wouldn't become emotionally attached... HA! 

And tomorrow is actually my last day of school for the week, after that I get a four day weekend and there's almost nothing I have to do. So excited. I can catch up on sleep and tv and work and maybe even finish up the site... Maybe.

Edit- 1200! Wow.


----------



## ynahanson

Oh wow I want


MattsBettas said:


> Got all of the water changes done today. Quite the task but it's something I don't mind doing. Other than that nothing much exciting is going on in the fish room (you guys know whenever I use the words "fish room" I really mean the set of shelves in my bedroom plus a couple of tanks, right? Haha.). Fish are still growing. Plants are still growing. Fish are still alive. No more babies.
> 
> Something exciting IS happening in someone else's fish room though- look what (Albertan breeder friend) CJ (logisticsguy) bought!-
> View attachment 302722
> 
> As I said on the aquabid thread I plan on buying some offspring from whatever spawn that guy makes and breeding them into my blue and yellow line. I'm really hoping he arrives alive.
> 
> Winter is making me start to think about all the things I want to get done in the summer. I'm eager to get my set of shelves that (in my mind) hold 14 ten gallon tanks, haven't quite decided what they'll all be used for but it's me, I'll find something. That'll let me do basically whatever I want and gives me a whole lot of versatility.
> 
> I'm so bored of winter. For me there's always a point where something just clicks and it's like "Yup. Ready for summer now.", and nothing seems more desirable then green grass and leaves on trees. I've hit that point.


----------



## Mahsfish

Sorry Matt if this is kinda personal to you. If so just PM instead. But do you pay for all your tanks, fish, food etc... Other than bills? Or do your parents help you out? I find it amazing you have so many tanks and if you pay for them all that's great. Cause I can just get enough money to get all my fish and stuff since Im not working right now.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yup, I pay for everything except the water and electricity haha (though I talked briefly with them about it and they said it was "just one of those things"- I don't think water would actually be that big of an increase anyways, I probably go through under 20g of water a week when I'm not doing heavy work or actively raising fry but I really don't know about the electricity...). I really don't run that extravagant of an operation, right now I only have ten tanks running and the majority are ten or less gallons. 

I mainly use birthday and Christmas money (and odd jobs like shoveling walks and stuff), my family and friends mostly get that when I say all I want is cash- _all I want is cash_. Usually that lasts me until the next time I'm on the receiving end of money. That, and I am actually really good at getting deals. 33g tank? 10$. Boxing Day sales? Yup! Kijiji is gold as well. I'm... Frugal, so a little money can go quite far... Except for the fish themselves and food. 

My plan is to become a swim instucter as soon as I can and am licensed or certified or whatever, I'm Bronze Cross certified (First Aid/CPR/AED, important for any job with pools involved), basically the only thing stopping me is age and one or two more courses. I think I can teach next year though and that will help a lot. Once I get my site up and running and start actually working on selling plants and fish that will also supplement the fish budget. 

I'm not saying my parents have never bought me anything- they definitely have, it's just things that are little like a pack of food or a bulb or something cheap I throw into an amazon order to get free shipping and not tanks or fish or other more expensive, large purchases.

So yea... Basically a combo of my bargain hunting, money that is gifted to me, me not having big tanks or expensive fish (compared to those arowana and ray keepers lol) allows me to do what I do. It might mean that I don't import fish, but so far I've been fine! 

*Anyways (basically, what's going on today)...*

I sold a fish today. One of the blue babies. Cute little fish, I met the owner and she was great and I know he'll be going to a good home. It was easy to do knowing that it would be an upgrade for the fish. 

My right knee has been bad today. They've never really been great, always cracking when I bend down, but today my right one has been painfully cracking all the time and is just generally painful to move beyond normal walking. I'll try to sleep it off, I'm sure it will be fine, just a bit of a pain in the butt. 

I agree that CJ needs to breed that fish... If he doesn't I'll come down there, steal it, and do it for him:devil:. Kidding, of course. (?)

Ooh and I get to sleep in tomorrow and the next day and the next day and the next day, needless to say I'm excited.

And I leave you with some quick pics of the channoides to prove that they still actually exist, and a couple other things. This is pretty much just an experiment to see if my new phones camera is half decent for fish. Sorry if hat whole thing got rambly. 

Female channoides

Male channoides

Channoides tank

Crappy shot of the 20g- I swear it looks better in real life, but that'll give you an idea. 

Female in 20g, right beside the aponogetons (Petco Betta Bulbs!)

Creepy crayfish


----------



## meganlbetta

This is the blue baby checking out his/her new home. This tank is all done except a cool driftwood soaking to attach the moss to. I upgraded the lighbulb so the plants should do better. Java fern is wedged in between the white rocks, wisteria in the right back corner, amazon sword middle back and a crypt in the middle. Wisteria floating as well. Hope you like it 

(Dont know why the pictures turned on me though)


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## Mahsfish

Thats Great matt. See unfortunatly its the same for me. But I'm also into the big cichlids and stuff. And let me tell you. Getting deals on large tanks ain't easy to find. Cause when you do it still ain't cheap. My plan is to be getting a 120 gal fully setup in the next couple weeks. Best deal I can find around here that has everything plus a really nice stand. Since the tank won't be in my room and in the basement my parents want it too look nice. So its gonna cost me $380. But I'll be selling my 50 gal hopefully to help play for it. 

And the channoides and their tank look great.


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## MattsBettas

Looks great, Megan! He looks so happy, and the tank looks awesome. Keep me updated, I'm excited to see him grow up too haha. 

Thanks mah. What are you stocking the 120 with?


----------



## Mahsfish

I'm still deciding. But I'm going to be breeding cichlids most likely. I was thinking of maybe trying to produce my own red Texas by first obtaining 5 parrot cichlids. And then seeing which turn out to be females. Then get a male Texas And then start breeding f1 fry and stuff. But still deciding.


----------



## MattsBettas

Mah, I don't know a thing about cichlids, but that sounds like a neat project. Post pictures of the tank when it's up. 

Another fish went on the fish bucket list (I have a real bucket list too, and owning every fish on the fish bucket list is on there haha)- _Centromochlus perugiae_. I can't decide if they're cute or ugly but they seem cool and therefore I will eventually own them. 







http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=367


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh and I think I may have just found my cory-







http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-duplicareus/
I swear all my best work is done at night.


----------



## MattsBettas

Punched what I might do in the 20 into AqAdvisor and added endlers 'til it hit 100% haha. It would certainly make for an active and interesting tank. I will probably end up not adding that many endlers though (until they reproduce, but then I'll sell them off), and, depending on what CJ ends up doing with that pineapple male, the betta in the tank might be a giant. 

Or I could just do a pair of wilds and cories.


----------



## logisticsguy

That is a cool cory. They look like Panda corys (I love these guys) with a yellow racing stripe added. Things are going very good with Mr new guy he is next to his first girl friend and putting on a show for her and already building a bubble nest so this might go quickly. 

Mah given the water that we deal with in Calgary chiclids are a smart choice. Going to the Calgary aquarium club auctions can net you a super deal on big tanks and equipment.


----------



## Mahsfish

I have to go check them out than. Thanks cj.


----------



## BlueLacee

MattsBettas said:


> Prepare for pic spam!
> 
> View attachment 104185


so beautiful. and a great find for being at a petsmart/co


----------



## meganlbetta

Fry update! 

Its been about a full week since I got this awesome fry. I think it is a male as I had it flaring at the mirror today. Not sure it females flare. So it looks like its really getting color now and has a blue green white irridesence on the body when i shine the light. Still have to think of a name .


----------



## MattsBettas

He looks great! Flaring is a good sign of a male at this age... Not certain by any means but I'm yet to have a fish I know is female flare from this spawn. The tank looks awesome too, love the white rocks and plants. So nice to see my baby spoiled haha .


----------



## meganlbetta

Thanks! Im going to assume its a boy now too until he gets older. Next couple days I will be doing a moss tree so will be doing some rearranging and such soon then it will be complete.


----------



## logisticsguy

Megan your fry is beautiful and has really nice form as well. Matt did a great job with the spawn.


----------



## meganlbetta

Thank you! He did for sure and so happy I was able to one too.


----------



## BlueLacee

There, I did it. Over the last day and a half I have read every single one of the 1218 posts. I totally have a life, NOT. Its not an addition or anything, anyway it was better than school.

You have been through a whole lot. Hopefully everything works out now. Everything will work out one day.


----------



## MattsBettas

Wow BlueLacee, that's impressive. I'm sorry you had to hear me rant like 500 times haha.

And sorry to do it again, guys, but the female channoides died today (or last night... I didn't see her). There's 40 bucks I can't just afford to spend again. I swear you find the fish you want most in this hobby, get them, have them healthy for awhile, and then out of no where have said healthy fish die unexpectedly before you can do anything with them. 

I swear I do everything right, even if it seems like I'm irresponsible and am constantly killing fish and then a drama queen about it. 15$ piece of driftwood for shelter and tannins? Yup. Loads of ial? Yup. Plants? Yup. Sponge filter and air pump? Check! Heater? Yup. The channoides setup cost fifty bucks alone and that's with me getting free ial and having the tank and plants on hand. 

I know the same rant has been repeated a million times by the more experienced members here but it pisses me off to no end when someone keeps a fish alive in a 2 liter, unheated bowl for seven years or brings a fish back from dropsy when it's fed hikari and kept in a five gallon tank with a goldfish or whatever stupid people are doing now. Like, good for you and everything, but that's pretty much he reason I don't bother with the diseases and emergencies section nearly as much as I used to or could (or should). 

I don't know if this was the proverbial "last straw" or not, but I'm not exactly eager to get any new fish at the moment. It's pointless if they (the _expensive_ fish) just turn and die on me in a month and a half and I don't get any babies from them. 

I need a hobby that doesn't involve anything alive. I'm going to bed.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

So sorry to hear that Matt. Was there anything visibly wrong with her or was it just a sudden death? 

I feel bad that your first foray into wild bettas ended so disastrously. I am seriously at the point where I am over bettas. I never seem to have any luck with them at all. I doubt once all my wilds pass away I will replace them.


----------



## Bluewind

I know it's been tough Matt, but I hope you don't give up fishkeeping. Even if you get the cheapest betta at PetSmart, I hope you find a way to enjoy it again. If you don't mind me asking, how old were they and how long had you had them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattsBettas

> So sorry to hear that Matt. Was there anything visibly wrong with her or was it just a sudden death?
> 
> I feel bad that your first foray into wild bettas ended so disastrously. I am seriously at the point where I am over bettas. I never seem to have any luck with them at all. I doubt once all my wilds pass away I will replace them.


Thanks LBF. 

There were no signs, except me not seeing her for a couple of days before her death (but I took that as her just being the shy species that she is). I watch the fish every day and didn't pick up anything, and shine a flashlight on them fairly often and that didn't yield anything either. Even at death her eyes were clear and the only physical things different were her color and the fact that her back and mouth were distended like a lot of fish when they die, if you know what I mean. 

The wilds are great and a joy to own... Until they die. Believe me when I say I can sympathize with you- both or us seem to be cursed with the fact that it's always our favorite fish that die on us. 



> I know it's been tough Matt, but I hope you don't give up fishkeeping. Even if you get the cheapest betta at PetSmart, I hope you find a way to enjoy it again. If you don't mind me asking, how old were they and how long had you had them?


Thanks, Bluewind. No clue how old they are/were, I got them from a wholesaler and they didn't come with info. Definitely young adults- breeding age but still seem to be growing a tiny bit. Don't know what age that puts them at. I've had them since the end-ish of January... Pretty disappointing to have a fish you've wanted for around a year die in a month and a half. And haha, petsmart fish... I'm not doing that again. As much as I love all fish and have nothing against veiltails I refuse to put myself through the stress of introducing disease to my system again and considering mass euthanasia. Seems really dramatic until you go through a disease scare, and I mean that in the most honest way possible.


----------



## beautiful Betta

so sorry to hear that Matt, and Sh*t happens from time to time, well maybe a lot, lol. And I know exactly where you are coming from regarding the disease thread comment. It makes you wonder and it is annoying to see people posting a thread when they have the exact same thread as someone else. Just makes you think people are lazy and want all the answers with no effort. Then you get the ones who blatantly say it's too much hassle hopefully it will a die. Yet they have a fish clinging on for dear life.

On the positive there are the people that are here genuinely looking to help their fish and become good members and able to pass on that knowledge to others. You are one of those people with good knowledge and it would be a shame if you left. With fish you can never really see what other issues may have caused a sudden death, so please don't look on it as what have I done or could have done, it wouldn't have made any difference. It is just the way it is. Hopefully you will be feeling more positive with the new day.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I think that's even worse than when I lost wilds/euthanased them due to velvet. At least I had a definite explanation for what had happened. 

I doubt age played a part as some of my wilds are pushing three years old now and they are still trying to spawn and boxing on with each other. 

Hopefully you don't have any problems with your channoides male. At least I found my channoides had enough personality to make up for the fact that they might have been the only fish in the tank.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like that about some people here. 

I won't be leaving any time soon, don't worry. Just, I don't know, slowing down a bit in the hobby if I do anything at all. Of course I look at this as what could I or should I have done, it's part of being a human. But then I just think and besides making my water more acidic I really can't think of anything (maybe food... But I doubt it). It's a shame these fish are so small, I would have liked to be able to necropsy her so I could at least see if there was any organ necrosis or damage or parasites. 

I would love to feel more positive but this is just starting to get really stressful and I've basically accepted the fact that once I like a fish _it will die_ and I just feel like I need to reevaluate whether or not that's really worth it. 

Ok... Bed for real now.

...Or not. Edit- I agree LBF, the only good part about the fish dying suddenly is that it's sudden... You don't have to watch it suffer. I hope I don't have problems with the male either. He's a nice fish, it sucks that his mate died and that he is not the only inhabitant of a tank I set up exclusively for wilds and can't really put much else in. 

Night. For real this time.


----------



## Bluewind

Night hun. And the petsmart comment was me just trying to get you to not give up. Our Walmart is 10x worse than the PetSmart and Gus (my VT and first fish) came from THAT! He was a train wreck. I didn't think he would last the night and I've had him a year and a half.

Then there was my little Cami who was perfectly healthy until she bumped her head on the tank lid from a crazy jump she did when startled. She must have hit just right because it killed her. And if I hadn't been standing there, I would have never known why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bluewind

In other words, don't blaim yourself because you never know what could have caused her death. It could have been a fluke or genetics or something else entirely. 

Also, it might be a good idea to contact the seller and let them know just in case it was genetics or a health issue. As little time as you had her, maybe the seller would be willing to sell you another at a reduced price. Unlikely, but still, it couldn't hurt to find out. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattsBettas

I hate writing deaths off as flukes... Buy sometimes you have to. 

I doubt notifying the seller will do much good as it's a wholesaler and not a private seller that bred and raised the fish themselves, but trying wouldn't hurt I guess. Oh well. 


Guys... Right now I have a conundrum. I don't really want more fish... But I'm hating my empty tanks. Shrimp are nice...


----------



## lilnaugrim

I hear you on the empty tank business! Shrimp _are _nice....

Sorry about your female though, perhaps it was the stress of the entire situation from being shipped and moving to your tank? Could have just been all too much for her, although I know you said she still had full or mostly? full color when she died.


----------



## JDragon

My condolences, Matt.


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## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I hear you on the empty tank business! Shrimp _are _nice....
> 
> Sorry about your female though, perhaps it was the stress of the entire situation from being shipped and moving to your tank? Could have just been all too much for her, although I know you said she still had full or mostly? full color when she died.


Shrimp are very nice. Yellow, blue, red, striped... And much easier and cheaper then wild bettas. I think I'll keep my one empty ten as a qt and worry about filling my existing tanks... That 20 looks super bare and needs something else but as I said before I'm not really eager to go out and buy new fish

I doubt it was the shipping stress since she ate fine out of the bag (ok, it took a little convincing at first), colored right up, and even have me a spawn. My water's pH tests slightly lower or very similar to the bag water if I remember correctly too.

Ah, the joy of being drawn to those weird little rare (*$$$*) species. 

Thanks JDragon.

I put the Endlers' breeding trap into the 20g today because it looks better and the fish are going to be in there for the rest of their lives anyways and that tank will definitely have no problems with the bioload. I hope at least one of the two unsexable babies is female.


----------



## BlueLacee

my first thought when I saw that you had posted was "oh god, what has happened now". Im glad that nothing new has happened, and am sorry for your loss


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## meganlbetta

So I finished the tank and put the log in. Here is a update on colors. Some pictures arent great but lighting was perfect like the really blury one you can see how much white he is getting at the front of his fins. back one is getting some almost yellow looking color and some dark spots too.


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## Mahsfish

Hey Matt. I know it sucks when fish randomly die like that. My nicest male OB peacock just randomly died last week. Nothing you can do but move on. That fish was $30 value on his own. And I'm sure all these death of urs are costing you way more than me. 

Also if you aren't liking the bettas and need some fish for the 20. I'm sure a nice harem of apistogramma caucotoides (not sure if I nailed the spelling on that) aka cockatoo cichlids would look great in there. Especially some triple reds or some oranges.


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## MattsBettas

Mmm I hate Africans (cichlids! Don't quote that fragment!) but don't mind SA cichlids. Will have to look into species since I don't particularly want to buy and breed a regular, commonly traded species- besides bettas I would rather just focus on the the species that need more breeders. Aka the expensive and hard to find ones. An apisto pair or trio or rams or something is a viable possibility though, thanks mah.

Megan, the fish and tank looks amazing, he looks like he's even grown a bit. The black or blue specking is cuz his mom was a grizzle- it looks a bit strange (not bad, just different) on a cello fish but if he turns white it would be awesome. 

Today I did a bleach dip on some java moss to try to get out the hair algae and it kinda worked. I want to try hydrogen peroxide on it, I really don't want to contaminate the 20 wuh this stuff. Speaking of the 20, I want my endlers to make more babies. I need more of them!


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## Mahsfish

Yeah matt. I just got them like a month ago thought I'd try taking on Africans. Not a huge fan. Especially since its recommended to have a 1:3 male to female ratio. Or just an all male tank. And setting up male only can be hard at first due to males aggression. 

I think I'll me sticking to SA CA and new world cichlids. Plus maybe one or two betta spawns a year on the side.


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## MattsBettas

Yea Africans just don't speak to me. The only cichlids I lake are the small and colorful ones from SA and even then I'm not sure. 

There's so much I want to do. Bettas, a shrimp tank (LOVE pumpkin neos and all of the rilis), smaller wild type wilds like the endlers and least killifish, wilds, licorice gouramis, calico BNPs, corys, etc. The next fish I get won't be bettas or a betta species, they stress me out to much and I feel like I need a break from them.

Post pics of the cichlids, mah! I'm going to bed, so if someone replies and I don't answer... You know why.


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## Hallyx

Just catching up on here, Matt. Sorry for you loss. I definitely know what you mean by Betta-stress. I think we all do. Nice relaxing hobby, eh?


----------



## Mahsfish

Here a picrure of my OB peacock male that recently died. As much as I love his colors I just don't really think Africans are for me. I'll share some pics with you Matt of my other cichlids once I get everything setup. But I might not really get too I to any cichlid breeding projects until I move in 8 months. 

I might sell my 50 and not have any cichlids at all until then. Maybe I'll just fill the time with a betta spawn... I'll think about it. I still have the fry from my previous spawn in the 5 gal. I'm thinking about moving them to either my 10 gal or 20 gal to give them more room. 

The fry are okay. The largest one I'm pretty sure is female. Let's just say she is very well fed. But her top line is terrible. And then one other one has swimming issues. I should probably cull it. But it seem to be fine swimming g up to get food and air. Just it stays near the bottom and swims like its tail is too heavy to keep up. 
And then all the other 3 are looking good. Maybe too long of bodies though. And one is missing a ventral. All these issues are my fault though. Now I know what it takes and what I need to do next time to make sure I get a higher yeild and better fry.


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## MattsBettas

They sound healthy at least, there will always be some fish in a spawn with problems. I've had babies with swim bladder issues, I let them live because they are otherwise healthy fish. Sometimes fasting em for a few days will cure it. 

Those are some pretty awesome colors, even if I don't like the fish. 



I'm thinking about makeing a "Fish Bucket List" thread.


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## Mahsfish

So it would be swim bladder then? I always assumed swim bladder was the fish would float up and have trouble swimming down. Since that's the only experiences I've had with it. 

I just assumed the fish was too weak as it is the smallest one.


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## Mahsfish

Heres a pic of the largest betta. Its a bout 2" tip to tail. You can see CJs marble as well as the dad was a koi, plays in on the random blotches of red. Nothing quality. Nice to get a spawn under my belt though and get some experience.


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## MattsBettas

Yea I can definitely see a lot of resemblance to CJ's fish in her.

I'm pretty sure that the swim bladder disorder that causes floating is caused by excess pressure on it, and sinking or tail sliding is just a different disorder.


----------



## Mahsfish

Yea the fish seems tail heavy. I'll try to figure it out. Maybe I'll fast em for a day or two see if that helps. If I have time today I'm going to transfer them to the 10 gal. If not then next weekend as I have Friday off.


----------



## Mahsfish

Tank is a little dirty on my part. That doesn't really help at all.


----------



## MattsBettas

Bigger, cleaner grow outs are alway better for fish health.


----------



## lilnaugrim

From what I understand, the sinking is still Swim bladder disorder just not the normal one we think of. There are a few things that can cause swim bladder issues, one being the fish is deformed and the bladder is squished or so that it causes the fish to have issues staying balanced.Another is an infection of the Swim Bladder which can cause the bladder to not release the air, causing the fish to float or to do the opposite where it basically deflates and causes the fish to sink. The second would obviously need medication and no amount of fasting will help it.


----------



## Mahsfish

Okay great. Thanks for the help lilnaugrim. I will double check the fish is not deformed, its top line and everything looks fine so i dont think it is. I will move the others to my 10 and then leave that one in the 5 and treat it until its better. What medication would you recommend.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Mahsfish said:


> Okay great. Thanks for the help lilnaugrim. I will double check the fish is not deformed, its top line and everything looks fine so i dont think it is. I will move the others to my 10 and then leave that one in the 5 and treat it until its better. What medication would you recommend.


And medicating it is the part I get a little fuzzy on. Basically it's a bacterial infection generally so you want an antibacterial, KanaPlex would probably be your best bet; using it in the water as well as soaking the food in it to help it enter the fish easier to treat the issue. 

Personally, I've never found a fish that is deformed to sink, deformed ones tend to float. This may just be what I see and not a fact but it's just something I've noticed is all.


----------



## MattsBettas

Hopefully I don't confuse you, and I don't want to push lil to the side since she knows her stuff too, but I've had a few fish be born with sbd and they just sank... I don't know but I would try fasting before throwing in meds. Mine always either recovered without medications or never recovered and just stayed like they were no matter what. 

Medications are one of the few things I'm conservative with haha.


----------



## lilnaugrim

It's fine Matt, I was just explaining my experience with sinking fishes is all. I shouldn't have said it wasn't worth fasting because it is worth it to try that first before any medications, so, sorry about that. I think I was a little exhausted last night anyway ;-)


----------



## MattsBettas

Soooo I should probably update, right? 

My HM girl from CJ (the one that was in the 20g) is slowly going into dropsy. She's in quarantine with ial, Epsom salts, and kanaplex (dropsy is the only thing I've used it for, and I am careful with it- I recommend against its use quite a bit but the one thing I always say to use it for is dropsy.), but I'm not optimistic. 

I hate how so many of my fish spend their last days in a small, bare quarantine tank and then are euthanized. I feel like I'm keeping the fish prisoner on death row- they spend their time in a bare cage, despite that I know (with 95% certainty) exactly where they're headed- to be killed. (The death penalty is horrible and an absolute tragedy in real life, by the way)

The benefit to having fish die suddenly on me is that they never go through that stress. 

In other news, the date of my local club's auction was announced! It's tentatively set for April 6... And this time, I'm going. I'll have to set aside a budget but this could be my opportunity to make a spontaneous decision and stock the 20, get more plants, etc... I think most of you reading should know me well enough to know that I am not walking out of there empty handed, no matter how much I loath parts of this hobby right now.

I have threads I should write up soon... Keep an eye out!


----------



## beautiful Betta

Sorry to hear about the girl, I hope you have fun at the auction.


----------



## Mahsfish

Look what my petland got. 

Walked in today just to check out stock and was surprised to see this "betta center" drip system. 

I saw a nice male delta I liked for $15. Little guy. Blue teal dragon scale butterfly. Really nice. Still deciding if I'm going to go back and get him.


----------



## TruongLN

All of the Petland's in Calgary have them now :3


----------



## Mahsfish

Wow. I guess I don't get out much haha.


----------



## MattsBettas

Neat. I've heard of those things before, they seem like a great way to display the fish (and from what I can see their bowls look clean too). Our petlands here are awful and not a place I would ever support, they need to learn a lesson from their Calgarian friends. 

I just threw a glance to my crayfish tank... And she's berried. Finally. No clue what I'm going to do though... Hahaha I'll have fun with it. I'm raisin them and selling hem as fast as I can, though, I really don't have room for too many crays (interesting things... Just messy).

I'm off to our open house... Stay tuned.


----------



## MattsBettas

I put the girl with dropsy down a few minutes ago. Like all fish with dropsy, I knew she wasn't making it out alive, and since the quarantine tank was causing nothing but stress and time added to her suffering I made he decision to end her life before it got too painful. 

She didn't go peacefully at all, sadly. Some fish are great and just go quickly and peaceful, while others seem to want to hang on to life for as long as they want no matter how unhappy and "ready to go" the seem during the final days of their lives. One of the big arguments I have heard against euthanasia is that natural death for animals is very rarely peaceful, but a lot of the time I think that a fish's last way they would choose to go is convulsing in a jar of freezing water. 

Definitely not nearly as upset with this death as I am with the channoides, because I have seen thus coming for a while.


----------



## Mahsfish

Sorry about that Matt. I don't understand why this keeps happening to you.


----------



## beautiful Betta

Sorry for your loss. I wouldn't be able to do it. I did read on this forum that fish don't really feel like we do, so it is ok to let them go naturally, But who knows what the fish really feel apart from the fish. Once again sorry for your loss.


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't know why this happens either :/. One more step away from bettas, I guess. That puts me at four bettas that I didn't breed myself . 

bB, there are studies showing that fish can feel pain and other evidence showing that they cannot. In all honesty, though, I find it impossible to believe that they do not experience some level of discomfort, whether or not that is a human-like feeling of pain we will never know. 

I plan on using this weekend to move stock around and open up a few tanks in case there's anything cool at the auction in April- by then I could have their tanks pretty much ready, so I'm not left stranded with fish and no tanks that are ready to go. 




Can it just be summer already?


----------



## Mahsfish

Sorry if this doesn't belong here. But I was just talking to someone at riverfront. And asked them why types of bettas they have in. And they listed the common crowntail and half moon. Then they also said they have pairs or wild imbelis and more. 

What do you guys think? Should I maybe drop by and get a pair or two. What are your opinions on imbelis. I know Matt you haven't had the best experience with wild bettas


----------



## lilnaugrim

I think I remember reading about fins and how the nerves are so tiny that Betta's don't feel much when the fins are bitten off or ripped. That part I can believe, I assume it's kind of like our nails where we don't feel the tips of them and can cut them at any time but when we get too close to the body of it; that's when it hurts and I assume similar of small fish. But on their body? I wouldn't agree they can't feel pain, I've seen fish that are in obvious discomfort and pain when rot or some disease have infiltrated their body so I do believe they feel pain. Yes, probably not the same way that we do since our bodies have different structures and whatnot, but I am sure there is SOME amount of pain and discomfort through them. Just my opinions on it and all.

Imeblis should be fun Mah! They are so beautiful, it's a shame I can't keep them because of my weather!!


----------



## Mahsfish

Thanks. And they said "and more..." I don't know if that means more wilds or just bettas. I have someone buying all my cichlids this week. So I plan to make a trip over to riverfront to check it out and maybe get some. I'll have an open 10 gal and 20 gal. 

As well as a 50 but I think that's overkill for bettas. Plus my filters in there are very strong. I'm most likely going to sell it and maybe get a couple more 10s.


----------



## ynahanson

Hey Matt, how's the wilds going?


----------



## Mahsfish

The wilds passed away ynahanson


----------



## MattsBettas

The female died weeks ago, I forgot to tell you. Sorry. I'm really upset I didn't get babies. Last time I checked pairs are still up for 35$ on cichaholics.

Male's still alive, Mah. Still a very cool fish, even on his own. Have you thought any more about the imbellis? The wilds are very enjoyable, mine dying was a fluke- hopefully it doesn't turn you off them.


----------



## ynahanson

Damn! Well I could probably get me channoids from chicaholics. That's so sad about your female. I think you have been having females die on you right? Sad


----------



## Mahsfish

Oh sorry about messing up the info Matt. And I'm still thinking about it. I think I'd be more interested in the other types of wilds. I'm planning on hopefully checking out what they have in stock and deciding on it while I'm there. Or go home and do some more research. My only think is that b. Splendens would probably be easier to sell then wilds here unless I shipped which I'd have to think about. 

But I like the looks of wilds. I'll see what room I have after I sell some of my cichlids and clear more of my tanks up.


----------



## MattsBettas

Bettas of all genders just die on me. That's why I'm moving a bit out of bettas and getting into the unusual community and micro fish side of things (could see myself doing wilds again, wild type livebearers, killies, cories, etc). 

Speaking of livebearers, I got eight babies out of a girl today. My endler population suddenly doubled haha. Won't be long before I'll have to start selling them off, these guys' offspring will probably be the first to go. All of the fry delivered today look healthy and act healthy too, so that's a great sign.

Edit- It's fine, mah. Wild bettas are certainly a "niche" fish, customers will be fewer than with splendens, but the benefit to wilds is that they're generally able to be kept together and spawns are smaller. More money per fish too, but that shouldn't be the reason to get them.


----------



## Mahsfish

I once had some really nice endler hybrids. (I had no females so I thought I'd experiment) some of them turned out really nice. But I wish I could have bred pure endlers. 

Black bars color are really nice. Although I think yellow jacket endlers are the coolest looking. Congrats on the fry Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yellow jackets and all the morphs are cool... I love my black bars though, nice and simple and once they get any more selectively bred than that they're just little guppies to me haha. Not that selectively bred is bad, I just like the sort of "natural" beauty black bars and pure wild endlers have.


----------



## Mahsfish

I agree Matt. When breeding become so selective for traits in wild/wild morph fish it takes the fun out of keeping them.


----------



## MattsBettas

Cuz it's a bloodworm... Ah, the magic of Photoshop. 

Sorry- had to share.


----------



## beautiful Betta

That is so funny, it looks so good.


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha I saw it on tumblr and thought that it would be appreciated here. 

Off to bed now- thank goodness.


----------



## MattsBettas

Hey guys! Just wanted to say that we're having an informal bettafish chat over at our sister forum, tropicalfishkeeping, at 7:30 EST, so a little less than an hour from now. Please drop by if possible, even if it's brief. Login is the same username and password as it is for bettafish in case you didn't know. 

Come check it out, it's an awesome feature that goes unused too often! Here's the link to chat- http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/chat/


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## MattsBettas

Randomly posting a picture of a canola field (Basically 95% of our province during summer... Lol) because Photobucket's not working for me and I need to get it off my phone and on to the iPad. Enjoy!









Chat's still on... Come by!


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## ao

is that real? *touches* o_o So petty and green!


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## lilnaugrim

Much saturation. Very clouds. Cool.

lol, it almost looks--the field part, like the Window's default field picture. I've never really seen so much open land before except for when I went up to Nova Scotia a while back! Otherwise RI here is pretty much all woods and I live right in the middle of them lol.


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## ao

is that real? *touches* o_o So petty and green!


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## MattsBettas

Very real, I shot that with my phone on my way to my Grandparent's lake lot in July or August. It's unedited. I'll have to get a better picture this summer, one where I'm not blurring by at 100km/h. 

Yea... Prairies are beautiful and we have the best clouds, but it gets really boring pretty quickly.


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## MattsBettas

So, not much news recently, just wanted to do a quick update. 

Today I started making a "Fish Bucket List" thread, mine is on page 112 here but I want to know what other people have in their dreams and plans. It should be up fairly soon- have a lot to work on next couple of days, but then I get an entire week off! Very excited. Need it ridiculously badly after this fresh dump of snow and cold, along with just needing a break from people and classes in general. 

I forgot to tell you guys about the endlers... I think I said that I had moved the group minus a pair (the pair is just holding the cycle in a 5g at the moment haha) already, and that I got 10 or so more fry, but I neglected to ever update and tell you guys that I got another drop- which puts my total at around 20 fry. 15 are living in a breeding trap (yea yea, I know, but it's only until they are big enough to be alone and eat with the others), and about five (could be WAY wrong- tank is nicely planted) are just floating around the tank. 

That's why I love my endlers more than my bettas right now. Easy, beautiful, rabbit-like, and not dying at every turn. 

I'm growing excited for the auction on the sixth. It'll be great, and I might be able to add a species or two to my collection.

Edit- I've been thinking more and more about Neocaridina shrimp recently... Shouldn't be challenging, don't tank up too much room, could give me an opportunity to play with planted picos or nanos... People want to do group orders quite often on my local forum, I'll have to think about it.


----------



## MattsBettas

*Preview!*


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## LittleBettaFish

Is this what you wanted to use my photos for? 

It is looking good. I like Weebly. Even the basic free site is very customisable.


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## MattsBettas

Nah your pics are for a bucket list in pictures, I wanted to get your permission this time haha. 

My goal is for my site to have 100% original content, so that obviously involves using my own photos... I have a week off and plan on working on pics and writing. 

I love weebly too. It's super easy to use and looks great.


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## LittleBettaFish

Lol just make sure you use the most fetching photos of my fish. I have some real ugly ones lurking about on my journal thread.


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## Mahsfish

Looks great matt. An wait till it's ready and fully set up.


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## MattsBettas

Thank guys. LBF, I will make sure to use flattering shots!


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## Mahsfish

Hey Matt, I visited the site and it looks great, of course it isnt complete bbut so far it looks good. I like how its very clean and simple. Cant wai to see it fully done.

I know you probably didnt want people viewing it till it was done, so i probably shouldnt have, so i wont say anything else and spoil it for the others.


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## MattsBettas

How did you find it? Lol

Yea please don't share the address or anything haha.


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## MattsBettas

Anyone on here know anything about shrimp? Someone on the local forum put it up that they would be doing a group order for shrimp, and apparently it is a good seller and the prices are great too. If I decide to do it I'll be going with neocardinias for now... Here are the neos for sale and their prices-

Cherry Shrimp $0.95 25 for $0.80 each
Fire Red $2
Red Rili $2.5
Bloody Mary $8
Pumpkin $3
Pumpkin Rili $6
Gold back Yellow Shrimp $4
Yellow Rili $6
Green Velvet $4
Blue Velvet $4
Blue Rili $ 3.5
Poison Blue Neo $12
Chocolate $4.5
Carbon Rili $10 10 for $8.00 each
Snowball $3 10 for $2.50 each

I'm immediately crossing off Bloody Mary, Poison Blue Neo, and Carbon Rili because of how much it would cost to start a colony, and will likely also eliminate Fire Red, Pumpkin Rili, Gold Back Yellow, Yellow Rili, and Chocolate. That leaves me with- 

Cherry Shrimp $0.95 25 for $0.80 each
Red Rili $2.5
Pumpkin $3
Green Velvet $4
Blue Velvet $4
Blue Rili $ 3.5
Snowball $3 10 for $2.50 each

If I do this I'll definitely be going with RCS, at a buck each that's an awesome price and as good as I'm going to find them. So, if you could choose one other species from the above list, what would it be? I'm leaning towards snowball, pumpkin, or one of the Rilis.


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## lilnaugrim

I'm partial to Red Rili's ^_^


----------



## MattsBettas

Rili's are nice and have an awesome coloration... But I'm not sure if I want more red shrimp :/. Or... I could do a trio of Rili's, a trio of pumpkins or snowballs, and five cherries... Hmmm... 

Oh and I'm currently working on a list of what I am and am not allowed to buy at Sunday's auction haha. Trying to exercise some self control but I don't know how well I will be able to stick to the list... I'll try, though. So excited, it could be a lot of fun and I could walk out with some cool new species.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Well what's going on your list so far? Enquiring minds want to know :mrgreen: 

I went to an auction here once and most of the fish were just cichlids and bristlenose plecos, so rather disappointing for someone like me.


----------



## Mahsfish

LBF I wouldve loved it haha. I used to keep just like cichlids and plecos. Im now selling all my cichlids though and just keeping bettas now so I guess it wouldnt benefit me anymore. 

And good idea on the list matt


----------



## MattsBettas

I'll post the full list before Sunday, but so far I have unusual corydoras groups, rice fish, SMALL rainbowfish, CPD, wild type livebearers, floating plants, other micro fish, and more under things I'm allowed to buy, and African cichlids (except maybe multis), plecos, domesticated livebearers, crayfish (need to NOT repeat last years incident where I ended up with a (now berried) crayfish lol), etc under things I'm absolutely not allowed to buy. I also have a "Things you're allowed to buy if the price is good" category with shrimp, snails, killies, tanks, and equipment in it. 

Of course all of this this is a "what if"/"prepare for everything" scenario since I really have no clue what will be there and won't until Sunday morning (unless anyone posts on the local forum). I'm hoping for more wild type livebearers and some other micro fish, and maybe a tank. Looking at what has sold in previous auctions the prices are usually quite fair and the stock can be quite varied (looks like lots of plecos and plants in the fall auction... But there were also ricefish at a really good price among other things). 

Going through a couple threads where people shared their auction loads plecos and cichlids seem to be a very common theme -() but it sounds like there's a good selection of other things usually.


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## lilnaugrim

Back on the shrimp thing, don't mix shrimp of the same genus otherwise they will hybridize and make some nasty brown colors although I personally don't mind some neutrals but since we like the bright pretty colors, it would be good not to mix all those Neo's together ^_^

You could mix Caridina and Neo's but I was reading that it's difficult to find two that like the same or similar water chemistry. Your Neo's are pretty much all the shrimp you listed


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha I know that, I have had shrimp before. Plus it's me, I research everything. I actually find it kinda interesting how they would revert back to a wild type if cross bred, not something I would do (UNLESS I wanted to see how the camouflaged ones would fare in a tank with fish) but interesting none the less. 

I love Cardinas but they wouldn't enjoy my water.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Figured it was so! Just wanted to say it just in case was all


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha. You got me thinking though... Wild type neos might actually do pretty well in a community tank, without the bright color that screams "eat me!". 

I just passed post 1300... Wow.


----------



## lilnaugrim

This is true! My little wild Neo is doing fantastically! I've determined she's a Neo and not a actual Ghost where the other surviving one is an American Glass Shrimp not a true Ghost Shrimp lol. The joys of shrimp keeping!


----------



## MattsBettas

Ugh so the red hmpk male (Rex) has whatever flesh eating disease his sister had. I have known since she got sick that there was a decent chance he was exposed too, but I didn't exactly expect him to get it. I'll start a pretty intense round of treatment today, and even though I caught it earlier with him I'm not confident that he will make it out of this alive. I don't think I'll wait so long before euthanizing, though. 

The symptoms are the exact same, plus or minus a few- lips disintegrate, fins get rips and holes, tail dips lower then the rest of the body, lethargy... He doesn't have any lesions on his body though which makes me slightly more optimistic. Seriously if anyone wants to throw some guesses at me as to what this could be I would highly appreciate it...


----------



## logisticsguy

That is too bad Matt. Starting the intense round of treatment is your best bet. I would think it is bacterial. Wish I had a good answer but I don't.


----------



## lilnaugrim

I'm with CJ :-/ well that really stinks, I hope he survives even with the not so great outlook.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. I cleaned out the tank that his sister was in (because it's smaller and easier to move around) that has just sat unused since she died, and added kanaplex and ial to it. It's just heating up now and the fish is getting a methylene blue bath in the meantime. 

I think it's bacterial too, judging by how it causes flesh damage and also affects the fish internally. Maybe some sort of columnaris? 

Hopefully this works, he isn't in horrible shape right now but I saw what this did to his sister and I'm hoping to prevent that.


----------



## beautiful Betta

Good luck with your treatment.


----------



## meganlbetta

*Fishy and plant update*

Hey Matt, 

Sorry it's been a while but here are some pictures! Baby is getting so big and bright. Its hard to tell in the photos but when he's angled right with the light, he has a white blue irridesence to the body that is spreading all over 
My plants are all small as they started melting so last night was a complete overhaul and had to remove most of the java fern leaves so the roots are there that should sprout new ones soon. My swords look pathetic and i have just roots left of one with the base exposed in the hopes it will grow again. Crypt is doing awesome and same with my wisteria and my moss tree. It does have a petite anubias tied down in the back nook of the wood. The baby is so active and darts all over. I still need to pick a name still lol. Hope all is well with you and your family  Talk to you soon


----------



## logisticsguy

Wow that fish is turning out beautiful meganlbetta!! Stunning! I love her.


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## meganlbetta

Thanks Logisticsguy, We weren't sure if it was a boy or girl forever.. Does it look like a girl?


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks for the pics and update, Megan, she/he (I'm also not too sure haha) looks amazing! A bit like mom, which is nice to see. Please keep me updated, even if they are few and far between. 

The red boy is doing alright. He's quarantined with kanaplex (I know, I'm ususally conservative with antibiotics but I'm not wasting time with anything else), IAL, and will be getting another methylene blue bath just to help kill anything external. I'm considering beginning aquarium salt in case this is columnaris, but if I did it would be a bath or low dosage because dropsy is a real concern with this.


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## MattsBettas

Camera phone + plastic tank makes for crappy pics... But this is basically how the fish rest when they have this disease... Leaning on one side of the back half of he body.


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## MattsBettas

Auction is today! Haha I'm really excited, it'll be fun even if I don't find anything I particularly want (which I have to say is pretty unlikely). 

So... I promised the list... (Keep in mind this is all a "what if" thing, I have no clue what will be there to be honest)

What I'm allowed to buy-

PAIRS OR BREEDING GROUPS ONLY
- Corydoras species except (see below)
- Ricefish species
- Emerald raspboras
- Celestial Pearl Danio
- Dario species
- Least killifish (Heterandria formosa)
- Wild type livebearers
- Certified class N endlers
- SMALL Rainbowfish sp.
- Wild bettas (really soft water not necessary) 

PAIRS/BREEDING GROUPS NOT NESCSSSARY 
- Plants except currently owned and listed below
- Floating plants (except owned)
- Live food cultures
- Nice betta splendens
- Channoides female (hahaha like that'll happen) 

Allowed to buy at decent price-

- Neocardinia shrimp
- Tanks 10g or below
- Working filters or heaters
- Assassin snails
- Rabbit snails (Tylomelania sp)
- Neolamprologus multifasciatus

NOT allowed to buy-

- Monster fish- even if they're little
- African cichlids (except listed above)
- inverts excluding Neo shrimp and snails
- Domesticated livebearers (unless they're REALLY nice)
- Plecos
- tetras
- barbs
- Danios
- Swords, java fern, anubias


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## lilnaugrim

Oh yay! Auction! Have fun Matt!! Good luck with your little red boy too.


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## MattsBettas

Thanks lil! 

I should update you all to let you know that the red boy ate last night and was swimming around today, still not 100% but I'm optimistic that his treatment is working.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Well, it's a start! I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed


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## TruongLN

Auction! Awe myan! I wish I had known in advance, I totally would have made the drive to EDM! Oh well, I hope you see some nice fish. 

Glad your red guy is seeming a bit better ;( fingers crossed!


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## MattsBettas

:-D

Truong, they happen twice a year and I'm sure Calgary has them too... I'll get more info and post back here later.


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## Mahsfish

Yea truong there was one a few weeks back here in Calgary. Unfortunately I had drivers ed and couldn't go. Ann Marie had some of her bettas in the auction too.


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## TruongLN

Oh I was crazy busy a while back, probably why I wasn't aware T^T 
Oh well, next time.


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## MattsBettas

This auction is AWESOME.


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## TruongLN

Take photos! 
Any wicked looking splendins?


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## MattsBettas

No splendens at all! Neat Corys, endlers, and a couple pairs of Betta ocelatta... Plus some of my holy grail Zoogoneticus tequila. Uhh, guys...


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## MattsBettas

Ugh got bid out of the Zoogoneticus tequila... Got the guys contact thought, so...


----------



## TruongLN

Well good thing you got his contact info! They're gorgeous fish.


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## MattsBettas

Uhuh. I'm pretty disappointed I didn't get them, but this guy bid me out of all three bags then left. 

So far I have sponge filters, Shinnersia 'Weiss-grun', five assassin snails, and two one gallon tanks. I want cories and rice fish, I'm not leaving fishless!

Whoops, just bought a group of ricefish.


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## TruongLN

Ahh what a bummer! Well maybe when you contact the breeder you can just buy them outright and not have to deal with other people out bidding you, are they rare to come by?

Rice fish are sooo adorable! I think the petland I work at sells them, I tend to not venture past the bettas haha.


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## MattsBettas

Very, very rare. Never seen 'em in Canada, critically endangered or extinct in the wild. Bucket list fish, but oh well. 

The rice fish are neat, I'll post pics later. Now for the cories...


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## TruongLN

Is the Zoogoneticus tequila breeder local?


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## MattsBettas

Not sure, I didn't grab the number. And guys... I'm coming home with a pair of Betta ocellata. Biiiiig fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

Left with the auction, and got quite the load! Final count is three scarlet endlers, a pair of betta ocellata, seven or so Daisy's Ricefish, five assassin snails, Shinnersia rivularis 'Weiss-Grun', two sponge filters, and two one gallon tanks. I think it was less than or around a hundred bucks, totally worth it though. Plus I made some connections with local people- a guy who bid on he ocellata who I later discovered has a pair of channoides (and wanted the least killies, but both of us backed out once the pair was up for 20 bucks), and the guy who bid me out on ALL the Zoogoneticus tequilas. 

It'll be a longish evening of fishroom work, but a good day in the fishkeeping world for me.


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## Mahsfish

Wow nice catches Matt. Congrats. I really like scarlet endlers the red on em it really nice.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Glad you found a lot of the fish and items you were looking for!


----------



## logisticsguy

Local fish club auctions rock! I got amazing deals on everything from plants to tanks and equipment. now I save up for them in case I really really want something. The first time I went to one I didn't have much money and hated getting outbid. Im like barry from Storage wars at auctions which is why the wifey wont go with me to them. Congrats on the new bounty Matt.


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## lilnaugrim

Nice!!! That's an extremely productive day I'd say!

I hope we give pictures of all these fantastic new fishes!!!


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## MattsBettas

Mahsfish said:


> Wow nice catches Matt. Congrats. I really like scarlet endlers the red on em it really nice.


Thanks mah! These ones (well, the male at least) aren't very red, there's a splotch of red and a splotch of green on his tail right now. Simple, but I like it... We'll see if he colors up more. 



BettaLover1313 said:


> Glad you found a lot of the fish and items you were looking for!


Thanks!



logisticsguy said:


> Local fish club auctions rock! I got amazing deals on everything from plants to tanks and equipment. now I save up for them in case I really really want something. The first time I went to one I didn't have much money and hated getting outbid. Im like barry from Storage wars at auctions which is why the wifey wont go with me to them. Congrats on the new bounty Matt.


They do, don't they? I've been missing out! I'll have to start saving up for them, Christmas/birthday money handled today but the next one will have to be funded by fish I sell and the job I plan on getting. This was my first auction of any kind, it was neat to see how people behaved and what went for lots and what went for little. 



lilnaugrim said:


> Nice!!! That's an extremely productive day I'd say!
> 
> I hope we give pictures of all these fantastic new fishes!!!


Very productive! You will get pictures, I'm not _that_ mean. Just maybe not today... They need to color up!


Back to work!


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## MattsBettas

Ocellata female... My goodness she's huge.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Love me some mouthbrooders! They are the Giant's right?


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Nice ocellata.

Make sure that there is not any gap they can get through and you are using something heavier than just cling wrap to cover their tank. 

My unimaculata and ideii were the worst for jumping out of all the wilds I have owned. If you left them a gap they would be out of it faster than you could blink.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yup lil, they're pretty big. I can try to get a pic that gives context later. 

LBF, the lid the tank already has is pretty good, it's plastic and sturdy. I will tape the gaps at the back and I think I should be good after that. The channoides were good practice :-D. 

All these fish are so beautiful. Now to get them breeding.


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## LittleBettaFish

Haha the channoides are child's play :mrgreen: These guys are like bullets out of a gun. 

You have to be quick with getting the food into the tank. When I kept similar species, if I was too slow, I'd end up with a unimaculata or ideii flopping around on the floor. They are very, very enthusiastic about food. 

But the bigger mouthbrooders are such fun fish. Good luck with yours. 

Also is it your channoides male that was still alive? How is he doing?


----------



## MattsBettas

Ugh you're scaring me, LBF. I know the guys are jumpers but having to be careful during feeding is startling! 

The channoides male is still alive and well, enjoying his bachelor pad built just for him. 


I'm happy to report that everybody is in their tanks, all doing quite well. I ended up with... Twelve more fish, and four more species (excluding plants). I think it cost around (the ocellata pair was 35$, endlers were 5$ (no one else wanted them, yay!), rice fish were 12$, and assassins were 10$). Not bad for what I got, if I do say so. I hope everything stays healthy... Maybe I'll even have some babies to report of! Speaking of which, one of the rice fish was carrying eggs while she was still IN THE BAG. They disappeared soon, but those eager little fish... 

Lemme edit in a pic of the pair of ocellata.


----------



## MattsBettas

Missed the editing cutoff somehow.


----------



## MattsBettas

Happy to say that today I got ricefish eggs in my hornwort (2 that I can see- but it's a start!), and the ocellata are breeding or at least trying to- I've seen a few wraps but no eggs yet and they're currently flirting and acting... Romantically? Neat stuff to watch, I'll be up a bit tonight in front of their tank. Hoping I get a daddy with a full mouth out of this! 

My Mum loves these fish, she likes how they behave and move (so do I) and we both agree that while they may not have the most flashy looks they do have something very attractive about them. I didn't expect to end up with this pair, but I certainly don't regret getting them. They behave themselves with the endlers (which I thought I would have to move out of the tank) perfectly too, so bonus!

I also made a ghetto lid for my fluval chi (scarlet endlers, assassin snails, ramshorns) out of a lid to a 1$ plastic container that we weren't using with a square hole I cut for the bulb so I can have a light balanced on it, pic at bottom. (Very) Lightly planted it too with a sad looking sprig of the shinnersia and some hornwort (of course!). 

I plan on setting up a hatchery for the oryzias woworae tomorrow, not sure if it should be in a separate tank or floating in the main tank... Thoughts? I'm thinking separate, more controlled and easier to deal with... But there's the temp change...


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh! And oh my goodness, how could I forget! Yesterday (still kinda today) marks the one year anniversary of my journal (and Ares' and Jess' spawn)! Wow... Things have changed quite a bit haha. That's pretty awesome, thank you everyone for taking part in making 135 pages of this.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Congrats on the year Matt!! :-D

Lovin' that ghetto lid! lol, I'm doing a similar thing with a strip of extra plexiglass that is super thin and way to long for the tank but it works okay *shrug*

And Ricefish are egg layers? I thought they were livebearers too! Interesting!

EDIT: Ahhhh, I see what they are now! They're mislabeled at my LFS then! Wow, they are some pretty fish!


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha thanks Lil! And yup, egglayers! If you like eyes... Check out some pics of these fish (seriously fish has some good ones). They're nice and blue and big. 

No eggs in the mouth this morning but they were mating when I left (or at least trying). I'll update later, when I get home.


----------



## DaytonBetta

MattsBettas said:


> Oh! And oh my goodness, how could I forget! Yesterday (still kinda today) marks the one year anniversary of my journal (and Ares' and Jess' spawn)! Wow... Things have changed quite a bit haha. That's pretty awesome, thank you everyone for taking part in making 135 pages of this.


Congrats! I love your journal.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks DaytonBetta! 

Ocellata male has a mouth full of eggs =) Maybe he'll even hold to term for me! Let's hope so, I would love some baby wilds.


----------



## TruongLN

How cool does that look?! I've never seen mouth brooders but I think it's so wonderful!
Photos?


----------



## MattsBettas

Looks pretty neat, he basically just has a puffy face haha. Sure, here's a cell phone pic!


----------



## TruongLN

Now I may be wrong, but I think I can see silhouette off the eggs in his cheeks?! Call me crazy hehe. SO CUTE!


----------



## MattsBettas

I think that's just scaling but I do see where you're coming from. The male especially has some pretty nice scaling around the head and gills. These fish are big and adorable!


----------



## MattsBettas

So the male is still holding, ricefish are still breeding (I NEED to set up that hatchery tomorrow or at the very latest this weekend), fish are all well, etc. I got two more endler fry yesterday but both mamas are still fat, so it wasn't like an entire drop was eaten. Still very impressed as to how well the (big) ocellatas are doing with the (little) endlers. 

Male channoides died yesterday, same as female (hid for a day then just died). I honestly think they either came in with something wrong (old, maybe?) from the seller, or just couldn't adapt to my pH no matter how much ial and driftwood there is. Luckily the ocellatas were most likely raised in Albertan water, and don't mind a higher pH anyways. I'm not nearly as upset about him as I was about the female, he never looked as good after she died, I was never gonna get babies, and I knew as soon as the female died that there was a chance the male would too.

Went for my first run of the season today, it was a good forty five minutes which would be seven-ish kilometers for me. It was pleasantly cool outside, really nice running weather. Still a bit wet but oh well, better wet then frozen! 

Cheering for my boy to hold to term, with the channoides gone that gives me a fry tank.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Sorry to hear about your channoides male Matt. Even though it says in a lot of places that they are tolerant of a wide range of water conditions, it might have been that this particular pair just couldn't adapt to your water. Or there might have just been something wrong that you couldn't see. 

Hopefully your ocellata male holds to term. That's the problem with mouthbrooders. You kind of have to wait and hope.


----------



## MattsBettas

It's been a week since the auction and I'm happy to report that everyone's still doing well. The male ocellata is still holding, it'll be a week Tuesday. Let's hope he holds to term, I want fry! 

I also finished my essay on abortion today for my homophobic, pro life, extremely conservative English teacher. I'm absolutely pro-choice, this is going to be... Interesting. I can write fairly well and I've gone over the paper a lot to make sure everything's good and she won't catch me for anything stupid (and I tried my best not to be overtly offensive and inflammatory), so I'm hoping for the best. 

Just thought I would include that since I've ranted about that a few times on here and thought some people might want more info.


----------



## MattsBettas

Hey guys, what's your favorite NLS food? I'm sure a lot of people only use the betta formula... I'm trying to decide whether to go back to that or a new formula like Thera A or something. 

I finally got my worms recultured, to be honest I'm lucky the cultures are still active... They smelt like outhouse and rotting shrimp, though, I will not let myself go that long between reculturing again. I need productive cultures, though, seeing as though I have ricefish and *hopefully* ocellata fry on the way. 

Handed in my essay today. I cannot wait to get out of that woman's class.

Edit- I've been more facinated than usual with Betta 'apiapi'. For those that don't know it's a really rare undescribed betta species that LBF keeps. As soon as I can and feel comfortable (meeting both factors will make that a long while, calm down) I want to bring them into Canada. Here, I stole a photo.


----------



## MattsBettas

So I kinda forgot it's Easter weekend, I vaguely knew I had Friday off but I didn't really realize it until today haha. 

The male ocellata is still holding. I've been conversing with Wildbetta on here, who breeds ocellata, and she's given me some great tips and advice. Apparently I should expect him to drop at around the two week mark, which is Tuesday. Exciting stuff! 

Everything else is going well fish-wise, the ricefish tank is a total mess (me and my plants are not used to such high light!) so I'll have to do something with it this weekend, but I think it could look good with the right plants. My endlers are having more babies, so that's always nice to see. My last batch is getting close to sexing.


----------



## Hallyx

Jaysee and Agent13 and others have convinced me to get NLS There-A next time I buy food.

My lonely bachelor in his 5g --- soon to be 10g.


----------



## Wildbetta

Oh my goodness Hallyx! He is looking great! Such an awesome shot of him as well! 

Can't wait to hear when you get ocellata fry Matt!


----------



## MattsBettas

Hallyx said:


> Jaysee and Agent13 and others have convinced me to get NLS There-A next time I buy food.
> 
> My lonely bachelor in his 5g --- soon to be 10g.


That _is_ a great shot, and a nice fish too. I'm assuming you got it from Wildbetta? And thank you, I think I've decided on Thera A, assuming that when I go and buy it the pellet size will work for my stock. 



Wildbetta said:


> Oh my goodness Hallyx! He is looking great! Such an awesome shot of him as well!
> 
> Can't wait to hear when you get ocellata fry Matt!


I'll definitely keep you updated. Today's task is getting the ten gallon set up for him, then I'll move him in once it's all stable tomorrow. 

-------------

Just a quick update on how things are going...

The red male died his week, not unexpected at all and really quite peaceful, I just woke up and he was dead. That frees up the ~2.5 bowfront. 

The ricefish eggs are doing well, I've learnt that the infertile ones cloud over quite quickly and the fertile ones stay clear, and over time a little black line turns into a curled up line with a head that turns into a curled up fry with eyes. I have one with eyes right now, and one that's still just a line. I'll finish sterilizing the ~2.5g and will move the more developed egg in there, with any luck I should have a new ricefish by the end of the week. Breeding these guys is fun because there isn't a whole lot of information out there, I'm really just making everything up as I go. 

Mr. Ocellata is still holding, he's a champ. I was surprised to have won them at the auction, and seriously didn't expect breeding two days later, and then I never thought he would hold for this long. I'm really hoping I can get a batch of fry, I would be very impressed. I went and watched all of Wildbetta's youtube videos on her ocellata spawn, got me very excited haha. 

I'm so happy with this hobby right now. The new fish are keeping me busy (in a good way), and all these babies are making me happy. I kind of want another splendens spawn, my blue pineapples will be what I work with and they're almost ready.

And by the way I think I owe you guys some decent pictures pretty soon. I'll try to steal my dads' dslr this weekend.


----------



## MattsBettas

I finished setting up the ten gallon today, and successfully moved the male ocellata over, as per Wildbetta's advice. It's a simple setup, with hornwort, floaters, and a cave-like decoration. Today marks twelve days, which means he could spit any day now. 

He also showed me this species jumping ability while I was getting him out of the tank. It was crazy, he thrashed and jumped (but never hit the floor or anything) and is still holding. Awesome (soon to be) dad.


----------



## MattsBettas

Went to my favorite pet store to get food... And came home with two more fish. They're sparkelling gouramis, neat and tiny little guys, colorful and cute too. Never seen 'em in a store, so for three bucks each, why not? 

Ocellata male is still holding, and doing well in his tank. Day thirteen- we're getting close. 

I settled on NLS Small Fish Formula. They had Thera+A, but it was significantly more expensive, powdery, and a big can.


----------



## lilnaugrim

I'm glad I'm not the only one lol

I hope the male drops healthy fry for you!!!


----------



## LittleBettaFish

He must nearly be ready to spit any day now. Some fathers are great from that very first spawn, others it can take some practice, while the rare few never seem to get it at all. 

Sparkling gourami are feisty little fish. Mine were always stealing killifish eggs or chasing each other around. They look really nice when they fully colour up and offer a lot of personality for smaller tanks.


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one lol
> 
> I hope the male drops healthy fry for you!!!


Haha thanks. These are the last new fish for a while... I swear. I have like four species breeding right now anyways, plus the splendens in the next while. 



LittleBettaFish said:


> He must nearly be ready to spit any day now. Some fathers are great from that very first spawn, others it can take some practice, while the rare few never seem to get it at all.
> 
> Sparkling gourami are feisty little fish. Mine were always stealing killifish eggs or chasing each other around. They look really nice when they fully colour up and offer a lot of personality for smaller tanks.


I always seem to end up with or want species you've kept -_-. Great minds think alike? 

I think he's close to spitting, his behavior has noticeably changed (and this happened before the move), which could possibly indicate... Something. Not sure, never done this before. He's looking good, though, and by this point you would have to think that the chances of him destroying the brood are slim to none. I the chances of me coming home or waking up to fry this week are good, which is always exciting. 

----------

I'm getting tanks sterilized (burning myself and inhaling bleach as I go) right now, and will post a more comprehensive update later tonight... Or try to at least. So stay tuned.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

If I recall correctly, they sometimes start hanging around at the surface more when they are about to release. At least my channoides and unimaculata males would. 

That's the worst thing about mouthbrooders. The time it takes from spawning to seeing some actual fry swimming around.


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## MattsBettas

Hanging around the surface, you say? 

He's been like that for the last little while. Cute little (big) fish.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Poor guy. He is going to be so hungry when he finally spits that massive mouthful out. 

My unimaculata male would always go after food when he had a mouthful and would have the saddest face when he realised he couldn't eat anything. 

Better get ready with your BBS haha.


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh, you would consider that massive? Any estimate as to how many fry "massive" is?  

I can't wait to get some food into him either. The only thing he's ate for me is like three bloodworms since he bred so soon after I got him. 

---------

So...

The ricefish are all doing well. Coloring up, breeding constantly (I wake up to eggs every day), though I can never find those dang eggs so I haven't separated any more out. Their tank is being overrun by BGA, I have to find some way to get rid of it- it's nasty. The fry tank is set up and ready for he largest egg, which will be moved over tomorrow. 

The ocellata is still holding, not sure I need to say that again, but he hasn't spit yet! You will all be updated ASAP after he spits- no worries. For all I care he can take his time, as long as he delivers them healthy and delivers them period I'm happy. 

He pygmy/sparkeling gouramis are both doing well, got them in a ~5g bowfront and tossed in some washed sand and floaters along with some hornwort (pretty standard tank for me), and they both ate a bit today. Hoping very much I got a male and a female, the fish guy (who actually knows a bit about fish) and I spent like ten minutes at the tank trying to get me a pair. More babies? Always welcome. 

My crayfish is no longer berried. Don't know if they survived (dark tank + natural colored gravel), but I tossed an algae wafer in and hoped for the best. 

Everything else is good... Plants are growing, fish are healthy... Now it's time to buckle down, get some fish raised up, and start selling fish and plants and cultures to start making a bit of cash to find this hobby. 

And on a less fish-related note, I had an amazing extra-long weekend- I saw both sides of my family for Easter (Easter itself isn't significant to me, however, like Christmas, I get to see family and have a good meal and that's why I celebrate it), got lots of work done with my fish, and got out of the house to some stores and on the bike, which was a treat after all this snow. Back to routine tomorrow, but after this there isn't much longer in the school year.


----------



## lilnaugrim

If you can find some potassium you can squirt it right at the BGA in small amounts. Do a 3 day black out and then do a water change to get rid of most of it. The potassium increase is more of what I found that helped rather than the blackouts.


----------



## MattsBettas

He's start I to spit! I see a fry! Come on buddy... I need more than one! 

I've had a very long day but this makes things better =)


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Congrats. I think there is more than one in that mouthful haha.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm at three now... I expected him to just open his huge mouth up and dump them out, but it's a one-at-a-time type ing apparently. His mouth is still quite full, though. 

I have to step out briefly, I'll update when I get back of there's any more news.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Congrats! Very exciting to hear that he's releasing the fry!


----------



## logisticsguy

Terrific! Grab your camera!


----------



## beautiful Betta

That's great news. Congratulations, would love to see some pics when you can.


----------



## Wildbetta

Yay!!! It may take up to 2-3 days for some males to fully release all the fry although 1 day is most common. So glad to hear that your first spawn has actually produced fry. Love when that happens!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys! 

Wildbetta, thank you, I was wondering if this was normal. How will I know when he's done?

I counted seven fry this morning, and he still has a mouthful. They ate too- I threw in some microworms and watched them hunt. I'll update when I'm home (if there's anything new) and will try to get pics too. They look slightly different then splendens fry, not sure if it would show in photos but they are larger and have a different head shape.


----------



## Wildbetta

I normally can tell when my males are done releasing when they start to eat. Males that have finished spitting fry will eat quite readily and well since they are hungry from holding and not eating for such a stretch of time.


----------



## MattsBettas

I counted fifteen fry last time I tried counting, which is a nice number... I think there's still a few more to come though. I'll have to get the BBS hatchery out today.


----------



## MattsBettas

Didn't get the hatchery set up (that's fine, they'll make do on worms), but I did get more fry- I counted 19, and there's probably more then that. I think he still has some in that puffy mouth too.

The sparkling gouramis are doing well. Ones an obvious male, he struts around the tank with his big fins and flashy colors. The other is either a female (which I'm thinking, probably just my optimism lol) or a subdominant male, which would make their behavior either flirting or fighting/a dominance thing. Both are eating well, though, so that makes me happy. 

Got a bit more done on the site too- it was productive day. And I know I have messages, if you're reading this, I'll get back ASAP. Off to bed now.


----------



## BlueLacee

Fry are always exiting


----------



## MattsBettas

Yup, fry are always exciting! 

He released more, I counted 28 this morning but there are more by now. He still has some I his mouth I think, puffy cheeks and no eating. 

I really need to get this BGA under control. I completed day two of a three day blackout, and will siphon tomorrow or Saturday. 

I've decided that unless something that I absolutely need comes up, the old channoides tank will be reserved for _Zoogoneticus tequila_. I know that there is a local breeder, and I'm still feeling burnt from the auction- it's only a matter of time before I get my hands on a few.


----------



## MattsBettas

Forgot to update (I discovered right after last night's post)... But I now have a ricefish fry! It's the tiniest fry I've had so far... All I can really make out are its small, flashy (just like the adults) eyes, and the line that is its body. I've been feeding microworms but will be adding vinegar eels tonight, this thing needs small food!


----------



## MattsBettas

You guys don't get a proper update right now because I'm lazy and tired but basically all is going well. Fry are growing fast and got their first water change today. Ricefish fry is alive, last time I checked. Still dealing with BGA. The darn ocellata bred... Ugh I did not anticipate _too much_ breeding as being the issue with keeping these guys! 

I should be able to post a proper update tomorrow, and make even some pics, so stay tuned!


----------



## MattsBettas

I never did get you that update... But I suppose that by now I owe pics so, when I can, I'll prove that I actually do have ocellata babies LOL. 

Everything is going well. I've been busy, sore, and tired; though, hence the slacking. 

In fish related news... The ocellata are growing fast, and are adorable and developing really well. I'm going to need a big tank if all or most of them survive- quite honestly I'm seriously considering just going and seeing if I can find a big 40-50ish gallon Rubbermaid tub at Walmart (yes, I recognize that they are awful) or something and tossing in the Aquaclear 70, moving them in once they're significantly larger, and going from there. It could hold them off for a while, hopefully at least until the fall auction. 

Not much else in the way of fish. 

In non-fish news, I got myself certified as an assistant referee for soccer (woo!), which will make me a bit of money for fish (and other things. But mostly fish.). It's not like it's a difficult job either. I have also spent tons of time either running or playing this week, which has left me sore as heck (I wish I could use a stronger adverb. Choose one.). My legs, which are in pretty good shape, are at the point that it can be hard to walk haha.

I'm also just at that point where I'm ready for this school year to be over. I mean, it'll be sad and everything, but I'm just mentally and physically tired and ready to move on. Not too much longer. 

I'm going to sleep (11:30? So early for me!). Watch for pics and an outline of what I eventually want my rack to look like when I'm rich and have 13 electrical outlets in one corner.


----------



## MattsBettas

Not sure if you can read that... But it says that they have or will have albimarginata, channoides, falx, and macrostoma for sale. They're trying to make me broke, I swear... This was the same wholesaler I got the channoides from and I didn't experience a ton of luck with them, however, so I'm unlikely to risk repeating that experience. The only species I would really consider is the falx. 

I _have_ been looking forward to getting some money and possibly saving a bit and bringing in a pair of either B. stiktos or B. mahachaiensis (or maybe a different complex member)... Splendens complex members have lots about them that attracts me- the body shape, the attitude, the rarity (some species, like stiktos, far more than others, like imbellis), the coloration, the need for breeders of certain species, tolerance to some certain silly water conditions, etc.

The pygmy gouramis are doing awesome. I'm thinking right now that I have a m/f pair, which is good. The obvious male (at least I'm assuming it's him) makes this bizarre rapid "clicking" (it's not easily describable) sound when he "flirts", which I find kind of interesting and a bit startling- big noise from a tiny fish! I'm hoping I can get babies from these guys, they're amazing little fish.


----------



## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> The pygmy gouramis are doing awesome. I'm thinking right now that I have a m/f pair, which is good. The obvious male (at least I'm assuming it's him) makes this bizarre rapid "clicking" (it's not easily describable) sound when he "flirts", which I find kind of interesting and a bit startling- big noise from a tiny fish! I'm hoping I can get babies from these guys, they're amazing little fish.


Yep, that's why they are also known as the Croaking Gourami ^_^ they are quite adorable!


----------



## MattsBettas

Trichopsis vittata is the croaking gourami. These guys are just closely related and share the behavior. I find it really interesting, I kinda wonder what purpose it plays... I think it's something to do with courtship. 

My ricefish fry is growing and one more hatched yesterday. I have no clue what I'm doing with these guys or how long they take to grow, I'm just making it up as I go and so far it's working haha.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Ah, didn't realize there were two tiny gouramis! So Sparkling Gourami is NOT the same as the Croaking Gourami as I was led to believe! lol figures! Oh well, they're both adorable though! And yes, it is for courtship much like Bettas flare and wiggle and stuff, that part I do know ^_^ Seems that sparklers do it much less than the croaking though and both T. vittatus and T. schalleri will be double the size of T. pumila....interesting stuff!


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha there's lots of small gouramis! Sparkling, licorice (there's a bunch of species of licorice gouramis)... Even honeys stay fairly small. 

Here's the ocellata fry!


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## lilnaugrim

Geeze, they're the size of my older guppy fry! lol

Yeah, I knew about Licorice but just not the fact that Sparkling and Croaking were different species! And yes, my Honey's are full grown and I absolutely love them! Way better body shape than any Dwarf!


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## MattsBettas

They are quite big, really impressive for a betta species. Scares me though, at his rate a ten gallon won't last them long! 

Here a a bit of a clearer pic...







Edit- that's the wrong pic... See the next post.


----------



## MattsBettas




----------



## beautiful Betta

Glad to hear and see that things are going better for you.

The fry look great. I have that same bell for my boy. I think it one of the best decorations as it doesn't have a bottom that dirt can collect in, I shove my siphon in the hole and clean the gravel in there too when I do my water changes.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks bB. The bell is my standard spawn tank decoration- it's safe, a good size, and provides a nice, dark hiding place. 

And congrats, that's an interesting way to spam, dumb bot. (If you are reading this after the above post is removed, it is a spambot with a very generic message followed by a linked (to some ad site) smily face)


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## lilnaugrim

lol, seems like it's just this time of year that the spam-kids come out to play >.< I was flagging a whole bunch of posts earlier! Some where about make-up and others undecipherable.


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## MattsBettas

So I'm not the only one that notices that spam seems to come and go depending on the time of year? Like at some points I'll flag Like 10 things a day, and during other I can go weeks without doing anything. There's been lots lately. 

Oh and I now have scarlet endler fry! I counted seven I think, but there's bound to be more... It's pretty dense with hornwort and floaters. They are really big fry too, which is awesome.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Not the only one! I remember we had a huge problem last year with spam and I helped out a bunch with that one too. Funny how that works.

Congrats on the Endler fry! I certainly wish I had more Tiger Endlers rather than my guppy fry!


----------



## MattsBettas

Today was great, didn't get a ton done fish-wise but I still feel good and am just generally happy. 

I stopped at my second favorite lfs today for the first time in well over a month, maybe two, and they installed this awesome new saltwater display. It's like a big, shallow display tank that also serves as a frag tank, and it was just generally really neat. Here's a pic-

I love saltwater. I swear I need to get a well paying job for the sole purpose of becoming a seahorse breeder. 

They also had some neat new fish. Most were too expensive for me to bother with, but some caught my attention- dwarf raspboras, some wild type livebearers, mystery snails, etc. I've never really been a huge mystery snail person but they have every color imaginable, including some awesome pinks and purples. Don't be surprised if I end up with a couple. They also had _Oryzias woworae_ for six or seven bucks each (HA! I got seven for 12$, I win), and the tank was ich infested. Sad, really, because these are so much more beautiful then the washed out disasters I got to see today. 

I threw in some decaps bbs to the ocellata fry tank. They were... Receptive. A few reluctantly mouthed then spit out some, but I left the room for twenty-ish minutes and by the time I got back some had fat, pink bellies. Can't say for sure that they ate them and that I'm not imagining things but it's a good sign! 

I have a big exam tomorrow, I best be off to bed (feel so proper after saying that LOL). Good night.


----------



## beautiful Betta

Wow that store looks great. Did they have any betta's ?

Good luck with your exam tomorrow.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Ooooh that IS a beautiful tank! But....why are they selling Giant clams?!?!? I know they take years to grow but they also get MASSIVE!!!! Great cleaners though, they get their color from the plankton and stuff they filter from above the reef and that's why the oceans around the reefs are so clean and clear! ^_^

I love the frag holders, at first I thought they were little castle ornaments with the white being windows lol

Yep, I need all the money right now so I can start my salt tank! that probably wont happen for a long time though :-/


----------



## MattsBettas

beautiful Betta said:


> Wow that store looks great. Did they have any betta's ?
> 
> Good luck with your exam tomorrow.


Yep, they have a nice selection, but they're extremely expensive and I'm done with pet store bettas anyways. Sounds snobbish, I know, but it's just not worth having to euth so many fish and nuke so many tanks again. 

Thank you! 



lilnaugrim said:


> Ooooh that IS a beautiful tank! But....why are they selling Giant clams?!?!? I know they take years to grow but they also get MASSIVE!!!! Great cleaners though, they get their color from the plankton and stuff they filter from above the reef and that's why the oceans around the reefs are so clean and clear! ^_^
> 
> I love the frag holders, at first I thought they were little castle ornaments with the white being windows lol
> 
> Yep, I need all the money right now so I can start my salt tank! that probably wont happen for a long time though :-/


Uhhh... I have no clue about the clams. To be honest I didn't even ponder their size and needs when I saw them, I was just thinking about how cool they looked haha. Totally not a marine person... Yet. 

Salt is so expensive, I feel you on that one! For now I'll focus on freshwater but when I strike it rich I'll let you all know, a reef tank would follow shortly lol. 

-----------

Not really much going in the fishroom today. The most exciting thing that happened was the ocellata definitely now taking decaps, yay! I'll continue microworms for a tad bit longer for the less developed or less smart fry, then get them on a diet of mainly "dead" feed. 

I'm probably going to end up going back and getting a couple mysteries, the colors are just to unusual (for here) to ignore! I want to be able to sex them so that I can get a m/f pair, but if not I'll just go and buy two or three (at 3$ each I can afford a few) and hope for the best.


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh and I forgot to mention that my exam went well, or at least I think it did. Left me mentally exhausted, but I'm fairly confident with what I wrote. Night.

Edit- Oh and lil, the thing I found fascinating about that display were the plants. Didn't note the name, but I definitely want them in my future salty tank!


----------



## lilnaugrim

Glad the exam went well!

Here's a bit more about the Giant Clams (_Tridacna gigas_) if you're at all interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_clam 

Plants? I do know of some marine plants although mostly macroalgae now. Are you talking about the one that is sticking up out of the tank in that picture or were there different plants not pictured? Marine plants are almost as interesting as corals lol except corals eat actual real food like brine shrimp where plants just sit there and grow....booooorring! haha


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm talking about the ones that are poking out... I've just never seen something like that sold. I'm familiar with macro algae, they can be super cool looking and unlike corals they actually help keep the water clean! But yea coral is definitely a lot more interesting haha.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yeah, macroalgae used in refugiums and filters for that purpose along with live rock. Who would have thought rocks would keep water clean? lol Saltwater is pretty amazing for sure! The plants sticking out are mangrove plants


----------



## lilnaugrim

Oh and as far as sexing Mystery Snails, it's quite easy once you get the hang of it! You won't actually know for sure until you can get them out of the water and can look under their shell to see if they've got the right parts and all but you can tell a little bit from the shells itself. Males will have a nice circular opening where females have more of an oblong opening. Here's a quote from another site:

"The shapes of snails' shells vary slightly between males and females. The males' shell openings are rounder, to accommodate extension of the penis during breeding. When the snail emerges from the shell, you'll see a noticeable penis sheath on the right side of the snail's body next to the gills. The female does not have this bulge."


----------



## MattsBettas

The rocks aren't what keeps the water clean, it's (mostly) the bacteria! Same idea as our porous structures we put in our freshwater filters. But I'm sure you knew that and were just joking around . 

And thank you very much for the mystery snail sexing info! That was basically exactly what I was looking for, those dang diagrams just weren't doing it. I generally learn better from text then from visuals. Hopefully whoever I get (most at that store provide really good customer service) will let me try and sex them. 

Not much going on today either with the fish, but everything is going well. I'll try and finish cleaning out the channoides tank and will do a water change on the ocellata, and that's about all. I'm so proud of my babies, eating their dead food.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yeah, I know, but everywhere I read they're like "rocks clean the water!" lol I just thought it was funny. ^_^

Glad I could help in sexing them! Funny since I learn better from pictures than from text!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you! And everyone is a different kind of learner... I pick things up best with written instructions, while I also have family members that like video instruction (visuals) and different family members who are very "hands on"- they prefer to understand by touching or physically experiencing things. None are better the any others though and it's not like learning one way makes you a smarter person. 

I did something really nice for my fish sitter today, I'll make a post later (no time now)... Let's just say that it ended up with her offering to take care of the fish whenever necessary haha. 

I'm off to the lfs to pick up a couple of those snails. Wish me luck sexing them!


----------



## MattsBettas

Full post tomorrow~


----------



## lilnaugrim

Lovely purple!


----------



## BettaLover1313

Wow! Such lovely colors! I saw one at the Wal-Mart near me with a similar colored shell to the smaller one. Took me by surprise since they usually only have gold Mystery snails.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys! 



lilnaugrim said:


> Lovely purple!


Lil, they had some really rich, nice purples like that one, along with some pinks and lighter purples. I love the pink and purple mysteries, they do look a bit unnatural (natural snails are just plain ugly haha) but actual pink or purple animals (freshwater, at least) are so hard to find so I snatched them up. 



BettaLover1313 said:


> Wow! Such lovely colors! I saw one at the Wal-Mart near me with a similar colored shell to the smaller one. Took me by surprise since they usually only have gold Mystery snails.


BL1313, the smaller guy is a ramshorn. I selectively bred them to hold the gold trait, which is really neat looking. Did you buy it? 

--------------

So the fish sitter story... 

Yesterday I ended up on a later bus than what I usually take because I was taking down after we had a speaker. I happened to be on the same bus as my fish sitter so we chatted and stuff, you know. She got off, and I got off soon after (the next stop... We live close, that's why she's one of my go to fish sitters). Pretty much as soon as I got off my phone started ringing, and it was her, sounding panicked and hard to understand. The call ended. I got another call right after, and she said her bag was on the bus with her keys and stuff. So I ended up sprinting after it (I'm a distance guy, not a sprinter FYI), missing it, running home, getting on my bike, and biking to the transit station where I grabbed the bag, got many stares, and left. I owed her one haha, she has helped me out so much. I love my friends. 

Now pics! From the lfs! 

Anemone (?) and a black clownfish


Full tank


A horrible picture of their partially emmersed tank, which is quite a bit nicer in person. It's mostly for lil, I'll try and get a better picture next time. 


Pygmy sunfish (Elassoma evergladei). These were like 20$ each, so they probably aren't going to be added to my fishroom at the time being, but they are attractive nano fish (and I got a nice picture). 


And now my fish! 

Mystery number two


Snail one, for comparison


Scarlet endler fry, all clustered in a clearing of hornwort.


Ocellata




It was raining last night and one o'clock lighting along with the rain made for a neat pic, so-


----------



## lilnaugrim

Interesting Anemone! I've only really seen a few of them before but that one kind of skives me out lol I like snakes but that just looks a little weird, the Clown is adorable though!

Love the vivarium/paludarium! :-D thanks for showing me! ^_^


----------



## beautiful Betta

I was thinking what clown, ^^ scrolled back up and found him hiding in the Anemone, lol. 

Love your pink snail Matt, I have to say that is my favourite snail. 

All your fry are looking healthy to.


----------



## BettaLover1313

Ah! I should have looked more closely at the shell. No, I didn't buy it, Nerites are enough for me right now ^^.

Lovely pictures!


----------



## logisticsguy

Nice pics Matt! Your ocellata fry look terrific. We got some fry from Houdini this week. Way to go helping your friend like that.


----------



## MattsBettas

Sorry for the absence, I went out to my grandparents lake lot for the long weekend and wasn't on for a jumble of reasons. Back now though, and happy to report that everybody is doing well and the ocellata surprised me with how much they have grown- they suddenly got (relatively) huge! Ventrals, scales, fins... All looking more developed. 

Today, though, I'm feeling sick (with a cold), frustrated, and unmotivated, and of course I have a lot to get done. 

Their place is quite simply where I'm happy. I mean, for someone who lives in a boring city full time, being able to escape painlessly sometimes is really nice. I practically grew up there too, I mean, not technically, but most of my fond childhood memories take place here. Now some pics! 


Nice Alberta fields... In a few months they'll be a brilliant, bright yellow from the canola, I'll try to get a pic. 


We get the best clouds on the prairies. 








That's the most most of you have ever seen of me... Lol


----------



## lilnaugrim

Woohoo! Look at 'dem sexy legs! haha, the fields and clouds look good! I can definitely understand liking your grandparent's house/lake! I absolutely love going to my grandfather's as well (the good one), it's a farm so there's _always_ something interesting going on!

Can't wait to see the fry if you can get pictures! I love when random growth spurts happen! haha, I see that in my guppy fry and can't wait for my Betta fry!!


----------



## beautiful Betta

You want to visit England, UK. Where I originally came from clouds are a pretty common sight. LOL.


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Woohoo! Look at 'dem sexy legs! haha, the fields and clouds look good! I can definitely understand liking your grandparent's house/lake! I absolutely love going to my grandfather's as well (the good one), it's a farm so there's _always_ something interesting going on!
> 
> Can't wait to see the fry if you can get pictures! I love when random growth spurts happen! haha, I see that in my guppy fry and can't wait for my Betta fry!!




They are nice, aren't they (EDIT: The clouds and fields, NOT my legs... But yea those are nice too LOL)? Yes, places away... Just... Away are always nice. Pics soon! 



beautiful Betta said:


> You want to visit England, UK. Where I originally came from clouds are a pretty common sight. LOL.


Haha clouds are the last reason I would want to visit England. Isn't it always raining there? Clouds here are nice cuz they usually don't make rain, and even though I love rain, it can get awful over more then a few days.


----------



## beautiful Betta

It rains all the time, your lucky if you have a Holiday in the UK and get good weather, hence why most Brits holiday abroad. Then often get sunburn where they have tried to soak up as much sun as possible. lol. And I have all that to look forward to soon when I return. Sigh's with a heavy heart, I will miss Australia.


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## lilnaugrim

Ahaha!!! I just burst out laughing at work and my boss gave me a funny look, oh great times, great times!

We went to Scotland in April 2002 and my god it was fantastic! Yes it rained half the time but the times that it didn't, wowee! I wish I could remember more of it but I ended up with a double ear infection and bronchitis from the plane ride over! But I do remember Isle of Skye which is where my ancestors are from, it was absolutely beautiful! Everything was in bloom (which didn't help my bronchitis of course), rolling green hills, the beautiful highlands and castles! I'm certainly going back there soon!---sorry for reminiscing on your journal!


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## BettaLover1313

Those fields are beautiful right now! I really hope you can share a picture when the canola is growing on them! Must be stunning to see!


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## MattsBettas

beautiful Betta said:


> It rains all the time, your lucky if you have a Holiday in the UK and get good weather, hence why most Brits holiday abroad. Then often get sunburn where they have tried to soak up as much sun as possible. lol. And I have all that to look forward to soon when I return. Sigh's with a heavy heart, I will miss Australia.


I've heard that about the UK. I totally get wanting to vacation abroad too haha. I've never actually gotten a sunburn, though, I naturally just tan (plus I have enough sense to put on the sunscreen or go inside if my skin gets hot). 



lilnaugrim said:


> Ahaha!!! I just burst out laughing at work and my boss gave me a funny look, oh great times, great times!
> 
> We went to Scotland in April 2002 and my god it was fantastic! Yes it rained half the time but the times that it didn't, wowee! I wish I could remember more of it but I ended up with a double ear infection and bronchitis from the plane ride over! But I do remember Isle of Skye which is where my ancestors are from, it was absolutely beautiful! Everything was in bloom (which didn't help my bronchitis of course), rolling green hills, the beautiful highlands and castles! I'm certainly going back there soon!---sorry for reminiscing on your journal!


Haha, at the legs comment? 

That's sounds like a super cool trip, and go ahead and reminisce in my journal- I really don't mind! 



BettaLover1313 said:


> Those fields are beautiful right now! I really hope you can share a picture when the canola is growing on them! Must be stunning to see!


The only thing stopping me from sharing one is if I forget... I'm out there often enough that I guarantee I'll have the opportunity. It is stunning, it gets a bit monotonous after a while, but it is a neat color (kinda like a highlighter) and really brightens up the drive. 

-------------

Anyways, I have a soccer game to AR (assistant ref) and work to do, but I'll try to get a proper post up later... As in a post with pictures. So watch for it!


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## Fenghuang

I'm from New Jersey, so excuse my shoddy geography, but that's a lake?!? Wow... The weather looks lovely up there. It is much less nice down here. All gloomy and damp and stuff. And cold. I miss Georgia already.


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## MameJenny

Looks beautiful there. It actually looks similar to where I live (Boulder, Colorado). We get lots of nice clouds here, too.


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## MattsBettas

Whoa. 

The skies literally just opened up without warning like they do in the movies. Rain just poured! 

I'll try to get a proper update later. You know what, I promise to. I owe you all!


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## lilnaugrim

Same thing happened down here! We were having a graduation party for my little brother (good grief we're getting old! haha) and it was fantastic outside! Albeit a little humid but not bad! Then suddenly thunder, we moved inside just in time and pow! rain poured out of the skies! Cleared up within an hour though and we went back outside lol


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## MattsBettas

Some shots of the pygmy gouramis

And yes, I am super lazy; all that's in that tank is sand, a heater, hornwort, and whatever floaters I netted out of the 20. 

Those two ^ are of the one I suspect to be a girl. Below are the guy. 



Scarlet endlers


Ocellatas! 


One of the largest


Apologies for all the blurriness, small, fast moving fish plus my samsung makes crisp photos hard. 

So, not a whole ton has been going on in the fishroom. I think I lost my ricefish fry (not a huge deal. Sad, yea, but I need to figure out a more efficient way to raise them anyway.), but other than that all is well. Babies of all sorts growing, some at a frightening rate. Ocellata are eating well and haven't bred again. Everyone else is pretty healthy. 

Today was awful, weather wise. I love the rain and thunderstorms and stuff, but when you have a game and a half hour drive through pouring rain and hail (thank goodness I wasn't driving), it isn't too fun. Here's a pic of the hail on the shoulder and in a field. 


Anyways yea, not much to update on really. I'm almost done the school year which excites the heck out of me, I'm so ready for it to be summer.


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## MattsBettas

Ricefish baby is (somehow) alive! So small it's easy to miss, I guess. 

Gonna go to bed early today... Like 2 hours earlier then normal. I'm tired, and don't feel like waking up and downright stumbling into the shower tomorrow morning.


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## Fenghuang

All dem babies!!!! 

It's funny how most fish fry look more or less the same in the early stages.


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## MattsBettas

It is, isn't it? The most different looking ones I've had are the ricefish, those are basically just dust particles with eyes. 

I found a pair I want off aquabid. Drop dead gorgeous fish. Rare too, and from a great breeder with a good reputation. So freakin' expensive though! I fired a message off to CJ to try and figure out exactly how much it would cost and he replied but my inbox was full so I didn't get it . I really shouldn't be writing PMs seconds before I need to run out the door. 

I was running out of the door to get to the game I was ARing... Horribly cold and dripping wet, but it's a bit more fish money!


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## lilnaugrim

Good luck on your pair Matt!!! Can't wait to see them/know what they are! lol


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## MattsBettas

Thank you! The auction ended, by the way, but I'm not done yet- the pair didn't sell so I might try waiting for relisting or emailing him... First I want to make sure I want to go through with it though. 

And here's why I am actually scared of my ocellata. They've started getting a breed iridescence on their anal fins and behind the gills. I realize its a crappy picture, but it's just to show numbers. 

Now imagine all of those as four to five inch monsters. Plus all of their brothers and sisters behind the hornwort. On the plus side, however, these beauties could pay for you-know-who...


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## Fenghuang

The only times I've seen that many babies of any kind in one tank were my baby snail booms. Not _exactly_ as exciting... -_-


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## MattsBettas

Haha there's at least 39 in that picture alone... Awesome. Let's just get them all grown up. 

Trying to decide if I should pursue this pair... So much to think about! I know you don't have all that much info, but any opinions?

Edit- oh and I made a new thread for the discussion of missing ventrals. Link: Let's Talk- Missing Ventrals


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## Fenghuang

Looks like you have your hands full lol.

I think you should go for it. If you think they are something special, you should get them. (Are you going to tell us what the pair is, or is that a secret?)


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## MattsBettas

Well, it's another pair of wilds. Rare, but (hopefully) not super difficult to keep. Won't give you more detail as of now. Today I just wasn't in any emotional state to make a decision (and I can recognise that, at least), but I've pondered it a bit more and contacted our transhipper. I am likely going to pursue it further. 

The ocellata will definitely be keeping me busy haha. Got another water change done (or rather, finished the water change I began last night). They _visibly_ dirty their water so fast... Thank god for hornwort and sponge filters, or they'd not fare nearly as well. 

In other news, I think my blue pineapple/yellow boy from petco is beginning to go downhill. It's peaceful, easy, and not at all violent or painful so I'm happy, and he's showing all the signs of entering those last stages of old age. I bought him in March 2013, he was brought to me nearly a month later in April, and he gave me a spawn at the end of August. Great father and good breeder. I'm honestly glad he's going like this, old age is such a great way for a fish to die in a world where the majority bite the bullet with some sort of disease or injury or in the mouth of another fish.

It's been nearly a year since my black plakat passed of old age, and the blue pineapple is showing virtually the same signs. I still miss the black boy, but once again, having fish die because they are old is so easy and low-stress. 

I'm going to go waaaaay off topic here so if anyone doesn't want to read about something other than fish stop reading. 

Am I the only one who's eagerly anticipating Lana Del Rey's new album (haha, iPad autocorrect corrected "album" to "a bum")? She's been releasing samples and a couple singles a lot lately, and I love them all. From what I've heard so far I feel like it's going to be my album for the summer, if you know what I mean. I love having these little things to look foreward to. Sometimes it makes all the difference. 

Music is something that's quite significant to me and something that I pretty much never talk about. LDR is pretty feminine compared to what I typically listen to (definitely don't get me started, I could write a whole other journal), but she's probably my favorite artist out there and I've been looking foward to this album for months now so yea I'm going to talk about it a little lol. 

Anyways I apologies if that got at all rambly, I'm getting to that point where I know it's time to go to sleep because I'm losing he ability to write coherently.


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## MattsBettas

No more news on the pair. Still for sale, still haven't decided. 

With the amount of fish I have now, though, I honestly think that for the first time I could start making back at least a small sum of money. Ocellata will probably sell at 20-30$ per pair (initially; the price will probably decrease as I will need to get rid of all but one or two pairs at some point), if not higher at auction, and since I have a million and one scarlet endlers (they're worse/more fertile then the black bars, I swear) in a tiny little tank those will have to start moving out soon. I'm considering just running to Walmart and picking up a big bin and throwing the fry in, 30+ Fish in a 5g doesn't work long term haha. 

Ocellata continue to grow at an astonishing rate. 

Not much else. I'm sorry for the lapse in attendance lately, I'm always on here popping in, just not necessarily posting as frequently. Things should pick up after June (Is anybody else way more happy than they should be that it's finally June?), when exams and soccer is finished.

Edit- I forgot to add that I tried something new with my water changes today. Instead of dumping it down the drain, I took the screen off the window in the bathroom (I'm on the second floor of a house, just so this makes sense), and dumped my buckets into the roof. The drains go into big rain barrels, which I'll use to water the plants and flowers- but not the veggies and herbs, just in case. I plan on doing this over the summer, why waste water?


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## MattsBettas

Mr and Mrs Ocellata made babies again. Awesome. At least the male got some time to fatten up!


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## logisticsguy

Its a great idea to recycle water. Works great for outdoor plants. My your pair are busy lol. Great to see them doing well and the fry growing quickly!


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## MattsBettas

I put down the blue and yellow boy minutes ago. It's a shame, besides my crayfish I've had him the longest out of all of my collection. He was at the point where he was as good as dead and wouldn't have to make it through the night, and was just laying down or swimming upside down or darting to the surface to gasp for air. 

I love clove oil. Less then three seconds and he was out, and in under a minute all gill function had ceased. As much as I don't like ending life I am so glad that there are humane ways to do it... This was much better then watching him suffer for hours more, and I'm sure he would have agreed.



I have some absolutely lovely fry from him, which definitely lessens the blow. He came from a petco in SoCal, was driven here, had a small but healthy spawn with one nice looking female, and was healthy until the last couple of weeks. He lived a good, long life (March 2013 - June 2014, at least with me); and while I'm sad he's gone I'm glad it was a relatively peaceful death.


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## Fenghuang

My condolences for your boy. He had a good and prosperous life, better than most. SIP.


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## Mahsfish

Sorry to hear Matt. Do you still plan on doing an F2 spawn on the pineapples, and blue marbles? I know before you said it wasnt too far off. I suppose the ocelleta and rice fish have taken up tanks and time.


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## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. 

If I can get pairings worked out I'll go into f2 with the blue pineapples without a doubt. The marbles... I'm not sure. I could just do a spawn with one parent from each pair haha.

The ocellata are the biggest tank hogs. Ricefish aren't that bad since I'm not actively breeding them... That's for summer. I've started making a list of the things to get done this summer, and it includes getting rid of all my BGA and setting up a proper breeding program for he ricefish. I also want to try cories. 

Between the endlers and ocellata I'm probably getting dangerously close to being overwhelmed by babies. That also means I can maybe... Just maybe make a few bucks, though. 

I just want it to be summer at this point.


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## Mahsfish

Haha I agree. Once summer comes I'll be focusing on ball, fish and electronics haha. 

Tomorrow is my last day then finals start. And all I have is my chem final. 

Also Matt I would gladly take some endlers fry of you. And maybe some rice fish in the future. I'm actually planning on slowly shutting down my tanks as I am moving during the summer. And just having a few small tanks running. I really want to take my 20 and add some small fine gravel and some live plants maybe. And then get a trio of scarlet badis. Plus your endlers and rice fish to fill the rest of the tank space up.


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## beautiful Betta

Sorry to read about your boy, was that a picture of him? or one of his offspring?


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## Mahsfish

I know this isn't my journal but just thought I'd share. 

I'm selling my betta juvies all to one person, they say they are a breeder her in Calgary. Although I'm not sure if they are a member on here or not. 

Anyways, as Matt knows, it is summer time now... Other than a couple final exams. So I'm home all day now and I decided to make the 10 gal look pretty again. Got some new gravel and pots in the tank thought I'd test my tank decorating skills. Also made a black background out of a garbage bag. 

Still not sure what I'm going to put in it right now. If you have ideas please suggest them. 


Also Matt, how's the site going? Have you had time to work on it lately?


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## Mahsfish

Also that picture was taken about an hour ago. The bubbles have been wipped off and the water has settle so its clear now.


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## MattsBettas

Looks great, Mah! Site's coming along... Who knows when it'll get done.

Anyways, not much to update on in the fish world. The ocellata are getting big, etc. 

I'm sorry for my lack of participation right now. I've been busy, between finals and all the fish and my "it's the end of the year, I'm so exhausted" feeling there just hasn't been to many opportunities to get on. I've also been listening to Lana Del Rey's album practically nonstop- there isn't a bad song, and it flows amazingly well. I have too many favorites to list, and it's pretty much my official summer album haha. Go check out the tracklist (album name is "Ultraviolence") even if you would never listen to it, it's pretty awesome. And ignore the reviews. Sorry for that random rambling!


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## Mahsfish

Nice. I'll have to give it a listen some time. I listen to music a lot. Especially for sports, or just when I need an escape. 

And I know you said this to CJ already. But I forgot. When are you coming to Calgary again? If possible I'd like to get some endlers off you.


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## MattsBettas

Haha, LDR really has a unique style that not everyone likes. 

I'm coming to Calgary next weekend. I have plenty of scarlet endlers, classic black bars might be a bit of a stretch but I can check out what I have for them. Which ones would you want? 

----------

I forgot to update and say that I got to the LFS yesterday, and picked up two more mysteries (purple and pink, same as the ones I have. I want babies!) and some frogbit. The lovely lady who was working there apologized that they had so little frogbit left, and actually gave me what they had left for free! Its pretty awesome, I've been wanting it for a while. They also had salvinia but I don't know if I want to get some.


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## Mahsfish

Would you be able to post a picture or your scarlets. Ive seen scarlets with lots of reds, and some with less, u sure what yours are. Or since I know they are difficult to picture could you post one off Google that looks like them. 

Thanks.


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## MattsBettas

I'll post a picture ASAP. They don't look like anything that's really on google (at least not enough that I would use a picture to show you), but they are nice. 

-----

In other news, I'm getting at least eighteen cories on Thursday! Don't worry, though- they're two of the smallest species, pygmaes and hastatus. I'm getting at least twelve pygmaes and six hastatus, so two good sized groups, both for an extremely good price. I've actually being looking at buying some pygmaes for a while, and cursed when I saw them taken off the wholesalers stock list today. I'll probably try breeding both species in a 5g or something just for kicks. 

Right now I'm seriously considering putting a pair of apistos in with one species of the cories in my ten gallon that's currently home to two mystery snails, and used to house mph channoides. I love the tank, it has an amazing piece of driftwood in it. Now I just have to plant it.


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## Mahsfish

Hey Matt. Just in case you were interested when you come to Calgary. Riverfront has some pygmy Corys. Quite a few of them too. I just don't remember how much they were.


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## Mahsfish

Oh yeah. And one more thing. If you were looking to add to your endlers collection, riverfront thas some tiger endlers for $6.50... Except I think I remember reading somewhere that tiger endlers aren't actually endlers, but the result of selective breeding from a snakeskin x endler cross. 

They also have black bars, and the females did have no color, but a couple of the males looked like hybrids. Some had spade tails and others colors and fins just didn't look natural.


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## MattsBettas

I have no more room for endlers, and I think I'll be good with 12+ pygmies haha. If I end up with anything it'll be apistos.


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## Mahsfish

Oh yeah. Also how much are you asking for on the endlers?


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## Tress

*phew*
I finally read through all the pages! idk why but I find journals so interesting to read. You've gone through so much and it's great that now things are working out much better for you lately. I wish you the best of luck with all your little fry (gosh you have so many o_o ). 

Now back to lurking.


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## MattsBettas

Not sure how much I'll ask, I'll let you know soon. Gotta get you those pictures too. 

Thank you, Tress! I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed the whole thing, congrats on reading all 147 pages of it! It actually does mean a lot.


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## Mahsfish

Okay no problem Matt. Look forward to seeing them. If you're able could you post a picture of the black bars too. I've kept them before and seen lots of pictures so I know what they normally look like... But just so I know that yours look good too.


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## MattsBettas

Mah, I have all the pictures, but of course photobucket isn't working right now. I'm sorry. Will get them up ASAP. 

So today I took the next step in my seemingly endless algae battle, and went out and got some hydrogen peroxide (a small bottle for 1.50$, woo!) to start dosing. I did a full dose on the one tank where BGA took hold, the ricefish one on my night table. I spot treated as much as I could, watching the bubbles rise is endlessly satisfying. And yes, it is completely fish safe. 

I also increased oxygenation by adding an airstone on full. I am going to win this! 

I'm going to bed now, I'm exhausted and need the sleep.


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## lilnaugrim

Good luck on your quest to beat the horrendous algae!! I never quite won that battle last time I had BGA lol. Now I've got hair algae but I rather like the look of it! ^_^


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## MattsBettas

Thanks lil! I've got hair algae too but it doesn't bother me nearly as much. It can actually be useful, I've watched endlers fry hide from my ocellata in there. I'm going to give a shot at getting rid of it this summer though haha.


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## lilnaugrim

Definitely! It's definitely a much prettier algae than the others at least, BGA is just plain horrible!


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## MattsBettas

Agreed, lil! BGA is disgusting! I started a complete blackout with a beach towel today. Three days of that plus increased oxygenation and H2O2 will hopefully help. 

Mah, here's a pic that has a similar coloration to mine. It changes under lighting though, and ranges from flat orange to a metallic pink. http://www.gambamania.com/614-795-thickbox/endler-red-scarlet.jpg

Getting the cories tomorrow! Super excited! Tomorrow's a pretty big day for me... Cories, last game of soccer for this season (and possibly life), and it's the last day for some of my classes. To be honest I'm almost emotional about the end of this school year; while it's felt really long and awful at times I'm going to miss a lot of people and things. It's always bittersweet (that's life ;-)) (did anyone actually get that?), but I'm obviously more excited then sad.


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## Mahsfish

Matt you're in grade 9 correct? Going into 10?

And I'll get the scarlets. When are you in Calgary? And for how long? And ultimately how much each?


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## MattsBettas

Responded via PM


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I found an a decently sized and healthy looking ocellata fry in the pairs main tank. Didn't expect that. Infusoria can be awesome! 

I'm getting the cories tonight. So excited.


----------



## MattsBettas

Got the cories! There are twelve pygmies and one hasatus. He said he couldn't find the rest of the has at us haha, the price was obviously dropped (and significantly) to reflect that. I've done things in the past with him (remember the channoides?), he's an awesome guy. If he was more than a hobbyist I would be advertising for him! 

All of the cories were healthy and pretty happy, though they didn't like the move. I just need to somehow find like five more hasatus. 

Not much else to update on. Tomorrow's my last day of classes- I'm so happy. 

Oh, and there are Betta brownorum on our wholesalers stock list. No, no, no, Matt; no. You don't have the water for them.


----------



## MattsBettas

I left today to go on a small weekend trip, and since I'm passing through Mahsfish' and CJ's city I brought down ten of the scarlet endlers for Mah. Because of time constrains, though, I have to drop them off on the way home on Sunday evening, so I actually brought down a 2.5ish tank and some plants to throw the fish in for a couple days haha. They'll be fine, the fish are still small and endlers are pretty clean fish. All of the fish made the drive just fine.


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## Mahsfish

Good to hear Matt. Thanks for the update.


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## MattsBettas

So I'm obviously at home now, and happy to report that everything is excellent. 

The ocellata are growing fast, and starting to scare me. They're definitely full on juveniles now, with their "eye" spots and everything. Of course, they're still to small to sex or sell. My plan is to get all but one or two pairs moved out in August and then do another splendens spawn or two. 

The cories are doing fantastically, and are all very active and liking their new tanks. I'm totally unsure of whether or not they're eating though, I just toss NLS in and I don't see them eat, but later it's gone. I do have four (awesome, fast growing, and hopefully soon-to-breed) mystery snails in their tank, granted; but they shouldn't be able to eat all that food. I still feel bad for the hastatus though. Will have to find him some friends. 

By the way, mah, I threw in an extra girl just incase there were any losses. Let me know when you pick them up. 

Not really much else. I haven't been on as much as I would like to be because it's exam time, I have two more in two days though, and after that you get me all summer.


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## Mahsfish

Okay. Thanks Matt. And good to hear about you other fish. 

Also on the endlers. How often. Do the females usually drop. And how big are their drops


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## MattsBettas

Drops are around once a month, if not sooner. I can't count- it's a planted tank. Regardless you will end up with lots of babies, unless you keep females separated. They really should still be unhit at this age.


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## Mahsfish

Okay. Sound good. Thanks.


----------



## MattsBettas

One more day, one more exam. Then I'm done, only three and a bit hours from now!


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## lilnaugrim

Good luck Matt!! I'm sure you'll ace it!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks so much lil! I've done pretty well on the ones that I've seen marks for, just hoping I can keep that up. I'm not even worried for this one... Just ready to be done. 

I'll update you guys after!


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## Mahsfish

Good work Matt. And congrats on being done. I only had one final this semester since and Francis we have incentive. Meaning if you have less than 3 latest/absences you can exempt an exam. And then if you are on honours you can exempt another. 

So all I had to write was chemisrt. And I got 97 on it. So I'm pretty happy. 

And now that I'm out its time to train and get some fish stuff done.


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm done! It's officially summer for me now! Extremely bittersweet, but at the same time... It's summer! 

Mah, you can do that there? Wow... I would be exempt from two exams, and easily at that. My incentives are pretty simple, I want good marks for the personal accomplishment and to stay in AP and get into a good unit in the program I want.

I have some fish stuff to do this summer, but it's gonna be pretty relaxed. Planning on kicking up the workouts (especially running, but for me that's more for pleasure then the benefits), getting a tan, and taking it pretty easy. I'm going up to my grandparents tonight to their lake place (remember that picture of my legs?), it's going to be great.


----------



## Mahsfish

Hey were you ever able to check out the apistos? I suppose you didn't get any as you haven't said anything about them.


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## MattsBettas

Nope. We ran through Calgary so fast that it just wasn't an option. I would still love a pair, though. 

I ended up with a twenty gallon tank. Long story, but it was free and not disgustingly dirty and I ended up with it. Came with everything too.


----------



## Fenghuang

Congrats on the end of the school year, Matt! And yay for free tank.  (Which reminds me, I need to look into the $1/gallon Petco sale coming on...)

Any plans for what would go in it?


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks feng! No plans right now (since it was a total surprise), but to be honest it'll probably be used as a grow out for the ocellata and after that it could hold a pair of ocellata (or something similar, if they show up anywhere... Like unimaculata or something) and a reverse trio of cories, or something different. I really don't know. 

I've actually been looking at picking up a reverse trio of Corydoras duplicarius from my lfs. I love them, and they have them in stock which is pretty unusual... They would be bred, of course, and I would get a decent group of more then three (without paying 120$ for them).


----------



## Fenghuang

They look really cool. You should definitely go for it. I am sure they would pay for themselves if you can get a spawn and sell some babies.


----------



## MattsBettas

They really do, I've wanted them for months. It's the orange. Thanks for the enabling! 

And guys... I have a question and would love for you guys to quickly answer it. What do you like more, just from these (or any other, it doesn't matter) pictures? 

Fish one (Corydoras metae)- http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/corydoras_metae_2.jpg

Fish two (Corydoras melini)- http://aquafisher.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/Corydoras_melini.jpg


----------



## Fenghuang

Always happy to help push a fellow fishkeeper onto more fish. 

The Corydoras metae would be my pick. It could be the yellow sand, but its colour seems to pop more.


----------



## lilnaugrim

I'm personally biased for bandits (melini) so I'm not sure I'll be much of a help here lol.


----------



## beautiful Betta

I don't know what it was about the second link but my McAfee Security system came up big time on that second link as not to continue, so I didn't. The first link was fine. I did a google search on the second.

To me they are both very similar, the second one to me looks more like the standard one. The first one a little more unique looking. Why don't you have one of each.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you all! I honestly can't decide which I like more, I might end up with a trio or reverse trio of each since they're only like five bucks each but I have a while to decide. I like both of them, the metae has a much cleaner color but I love the strait black stripe on he melini. 

bB, sorry about the security warning! I wasn't affected. They're supposed to look similar, one is called the bandit cory and the other is the false bandit cory haha. You can't just have one of each- these guys need groups.


----------



## beautiful Betta

Surly they would group with the same species and not be too fussy of each others patterns. That reminds me of Marine tank I had, we had a massive 5 foot, 4 foot depth and 4 foot deep tank, we had it set up as living rock system. And we had a few tangs a yellow one, purple one, and sailfin tang and even a powder blue, which was a slight different shape but same family and they all would shoal around the tank together despite being a different colour, the powder blue would go off on his own at times but the others stuck together. I remember when we added the sailfin he was tiny compared to the other two of the same shape, and they went for him quite aggressively at first but despite his size he got out off their way and hid and held his own when he had to. went to work a little concerned, but couldn't really do a lot, in that type of tank it is almost impossible to catch a healthy fish without tearing the tank appart as they get in the rock work. When I came home from work he was swimming around with them like part of the family, I guess the hierarchy had been decided and all knew their place and peace resumed.


----------



## MattsBettas

Nope, bB, they're really supposed to be in same species groups. It's just best for the fish and I won't compromise that for my own pleasure. Your marine tank sounds so neat! 

Such a long and taxing day today, even though it really shouldn't have been. Just so much thinking going on and some other stuff. Now I don't really want to go to sleep, even though I should, because shuffle is playing exactly what I want to hear... Isn't it great when that happens?


----------



## Mahsfish

Got the endlers today Matt. They look good. 

One way I'm pretty sure they are hybrids is they are blonde. They tend to be greyer. But I could be wrong. 

It also looks like the males are 2 scarlet endlers and then 2 red chested endlers 

I'm please with the fish and plants thanks Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

Awesome mah, happy to hear. They are probably hybrids like I said, but since I don't have any certification or real knowledge as to their origins they probably have to be classed as P.

I'm pretty sure the spotted males are still some kinda scarlets, just with spots instead of a solid color. The fully developed ones like that don't like like red chested. 

Thanks for the purchase! You got CJ the money?


----------



## logisticsguy

Yes I have your money Matt. Im just happy I got them to Mah in good shape. If I had more space at the Inn I would get some endlers from you. A little cramped here with 3 spawns on the go. I going to put some fish online for sale soon to clear more room.


----------



## MattsBettas

Awesome, CJ! Of course you got them to him fine... I knew you would. Thank you so, so much. 

-----

I'll get a proper fish update and stuff when I get home... Two hours away right now haha.


----------



## MattsBettas

So I got home and am happy to report that all of the fish are doing well. Nothing really to report, besides the ocellata continuing to get huge and the BGA in the ricefish tank being nearly gone. I'll have some work to do tomorrow since I've been away for so long but it's all good. 

I had a bit of a scary reaction to something today. I ended up out on the lake at my grandparent's house, and after I got out I realized that my neck felt funny and sure enough I had a gigantic, spreading, red, ugly, hot, and itchy cluster of hives all up my neck. I got inside and washed off and ended up taking an antihistamine (which probably stopped the spreading and helped out a lot) and slathering on aloe vera jelly to sooth it, then went to get it checked out at the request of my family. It wasn't anything serious, but my eye was starting to close and it was spreading up my face and down my shoulders so I didn't really want to risk it haha. I'm fine now, but that was basically the excitement of the day. Lesson learned- check your life jacket for mold before putting it on! 

SCOTUS today... Uh. Just... Ugh. I know I shouldn't be getting too political on the forums so I won't say much but that was just a massive disappointment for me (and millions of others) despite the fact that I don't even live in the US. 

Anyways, I'm drowsy from the antihistamine so I'm going to bed... By the way, does anyone know how big mystery snails are when they start breeding?


----------



## Wildbetta

Glad to hear that the fish are all doing good.  Sorry to hear that you had an allergic reaction. Those are always a pain. 

Mystery snails will start breeding when they are about an inch in diameter.


----------



## MattsBettas

Wildbetta said:


> Glad to hear that the fish are all doing good.  Sorry to hear that you had an allergic reaction. Those are always a pain.
> 
> Mystery snails will start breeding when they are about an inch in diameter.


Thanks Wildbetta, great to see you! One inch diameter means at my mysteries are probably starting to get close... I'll lower the water level when they're all a decent size and hope for the best. 

------------

I just found out about these guys- Asain Rummynose

Spencer Jack has ten of them in stock right now and I'm seriously considering them... Despite being Asain microfish they would do quite well in my water, and they have some awesome coloration... I could do a pretty awesome setup with a small shoal of them and some Celestial Pearl Danios in a nice planted tank... Like that brant new 20g .


----------



## Fenghuang

Best of luck with yours, Matt. We still have 30 or so mysteries from when our two adults bred last year. Some of them are the size of golf balls now. It is hard to believe they started life smaller than grains of rice.


----------



## AquatiBetta

Hey nice to see you still on Matt  I'm Mo btw if you remember me


----------



## MattsBettas

Fenghuang said:


> Best of luck with yours, Matt. We still have 30 or so mysteries from when our two adults bred last year. Some of them are the size of golf balls now. It is hard to believe they started life smaller than grains of rice.


Thank you! That's really neat, I'm excited that I'm pretty close to possibly getting a clutch. A couple of them like to hang around the surface, not sure if it could be a sign or what but next water change I'll leave them a few extra inches of air in case they need it. Can you tell the difference between males and females? 



AquatiBetta said:


> Hey nice to see you still on Matt  I'm Mo btw if you remember me


Of course I remember you, glad to see you back! What happened to your old account?


----------



## logisticsguy

Mo! Where have you been Mo? Good to see you!


----------



## Fenghuang

MattsBettas said:


> Thank you! That's really neat, I'm excited that I'm pretty close to possibly getting a clutch. A couple of them like to hang around the surface, not sure if it could be a sign or what but next water change I'll leave them a few extra inches of air in case they need it. Can you tell the difference between males and females?


If you're close to get a clutch, you're probably close to getting multiple. We separated the pair we received from Peachii with our plant order right after the first or two clutch, but the female continued laying them.  I think we ended up with seven or eight clutches in all.

Here was proud mama with babies at a few days old. They were so cute and tiny. Then they were joined by hundred or so more sibs. xD










I would suggest making sure that you have a good tight lid on the tank. High humidity is really important to the survival of the eggs. If it's too dry, it will take longer for them to hatch and more of them won't.

It is difficult to sex them when they are really little, but you can certainly sex them when they get close to breeding size. There were a couple of online diagrams that I found helpful. I can link you to them, if you want.


----------



## Fenghuang

Duplicate post. I am really sorry. My internet was lagging and this happened.


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## Fenghuang

See above. >>


----------



## Fenghuang

Why are all my edits showing up as new posts???? ;_;

Really really sorry. 

(Hi Mo! Good to see you!)


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha it's alright. Can you show me that diagram?


----------



## Fenghuang

These two pictures (sources: aquariumadvice.com) more or less depicts the main difference:


This blog also has a pretty good post on mystery snail anatomy which describes in detail how to sex them towards the bottom: http://snailhobbyist.blogspot.com/p/d.html?m=1

The blog post also links to this Photobucket album with clear close ups of male and female snails, if you don't want to read through all that: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/terribryant/library/Sex of your snail?sort=3&page=1


----------



## AquatiBetta

Haha yah I couldn't remember my password haven't been on much and I don't use that email anymore sooooo... Lmao, trying my platinum white F2 spawn right now but the girlie dropped eggs while she was in the chimney -.-


----------



## MattsBettas

Fenghuang said:


> These two pictures (sources: aquariumadvice.com) more or less depicts the main difference:
> 
> 
> This blog also has a pretty good post on mystery snail anatomy which describes in detail how to sex them towards the bottom: http://snailhobbyist.blogspot.com/p/d.html?m=1
> 
> The blog post also links to this Photobucket album with clear close ups of male and female snails, if you don't want to read through all that: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/terribryant/library/Sex of your snail?sort=3&page=1


Thank you, Feng! That should be pretty helpful. I'll probably be coming to you with anymore questions during the process, so don't be surprised! I love that picture of all the little baby snails with their mum by the way! 



AquatiBetta said:


> Haha yah I couldn't remember my password haven't been on much and I don't use that email anymore sooooo... Lmao, trying my platinum white F2 spawn right now but the girlie dropped eggs while she was in the chimney -.-


Oh, well that isn't good! I'm sure you'll get it all worked out though. Try and stick around this time, we missed you! 

Good luck with the spawn! Pictures are more then welcome on this thread, I would love to see what those fish turned in to! 

---------

I didn't get as much done as I should've today, but it's all good. The fish will be fine. 

I noticed that my sparkling gourami girl isn't doing too well, likely because of that over dominant male. Her fins are nipped and she's starting to look a bit emaciated. I plan on getting her into a breeding trap in a different tank for a period of time to let her recover and fatten up. She's a strong fish and this really isn't all that bad; I just want to stop it before it gets worse. 

I really want a new group of Corydoras hastatus. I have this single guy (?) in there and I like him more then the pygmies in both looks and behavior, he's adorable and has this awesome clean grey coloration. All he needs is some friends... He does well with the pygmies, but same species groups are always better (and same species groups means the possibility of babies!). 

Not much else really going on. I noticed the first blue scale on an ocellata yesterday, which is neat. That juvie is starting to scare me, though... 

In other news, I start summer school tomorrow, which is a bit of a pain but I need to do it to do the courses I want (my sciences). I promise that it's for the extra timetable room and not because I did poorly in anything (quite the opposite, in fact!). That means that I'll be on tomorrow in the morning, briefly at lunch if you're lucky, and in the evening. It's only eight days so it's not a big deal. And my skin and eye (it only affected one eye) are pretty much clear now, just in time! There's pretty much no sign that anything happened on my skin, but the reaction spread into the eye and is taking longer to completely go away. 

Anyways, I should probably get to bed. Thanks for the busy day on the journal, it was really enjoyable considering I feel like I'm rambling to myself (I think LBF used those exact same words yesterday...) half the time!


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh, and happy Canada Day to the Canadians on here! Pretend this is an edit to that last message, I almost made it!


----------



## Mahsfish

I took all the sciences and I had no problems Matt. Only issue is I had to sacrifice my option courses in order to do it. And had to take a couple spares which sacrifice more options to ensure I had time to do homework. 

So good on you for doing that. I wish I had taken summer school to get some courses out of the way and take some options.


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea the way I have it figured out I'll have to sacrifice all my options one year but it's just worth it for me. 

Summer school is just a better deal for me. Like, no thank you, I don't want to spend five months on CALM. 

Anyways, day one out of eight is done. I'm completely exhausted and this course is gonna kick my butt, but it's all good and doing seven hours of phys ed a day can only do me good... At least physically. 

Fish are all good. I dropped the mystery snails water level just in case, but I'm not expecting it to happen just yet. I really hope I do end up with babies, though.


----------



## MattsBettas

I told you guys that this course was going to kick my butt... I wasn't too far off. I was sore in so many places today, and I'm in pretty good shape. Thank goodness for ibuprofen and sleep.


----------



## MattsBettas

Not much to update on but I wanted to let you know that my fish and I are alive. Summer school has remained painful and long despite not being difficult. Today it's my hips and calves that are making walking highly undesirable. 

I got out and saw a movie with a friend today, which was really nice. Seeing her was nice, the movie wasn't. We thought "Tammy" was going to be hilarious, but it was just really sad (as in "depressing sad", not "pathetic sad"). It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't what we expected. And side note while I'm talking about entertainment... 7-1! Holy crap! I want to watch a Netherlands-Germany final but at the same time I really like Argentina... I'm split. 

Our wholesaler put these up on his stock list-







Xiphophorous maculatus 'rio grijalva'

They're wild type platies and pretty neat. From what I can tell they aren't common, and I LOVE wild type livebearers... Good price too. If they have them in stock when the group order goes out at the end of the month I could easily end up with a trio. 

I swear I had something else I wanted to say when I started writing this. I forgot, if I think of it I'll edit or post. I'm so tired, even though I'm going to bed earlier then I have in months for this course.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Well that's a super cute fish! I do agree that most wild fish are just more attractive than their domesticated cousins; or at least most of the time. I do love the look of wild bettas but my water temps get too high for them to happily keep them. Like my vaillanti Gouramis, I love them probably more than any other Gourami out there, especially over Dwarf's and those "sunset" and golden Honey gourami's; the wild version of the honey gouramis are so much more interesting and appealing!!

Good luck in summer school! Sounds like...a fun time...:sarcastic:


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Well that's a super cute fish! I do agree that most wild fish are just more attractive than their domesticated cousins; or at least most of the time. I do love the look of wild bettas but my water temps get too high for them to happily keep them. Like my vaillanti Gouramis, I love them probably more than any other Gourami out there, especially over Dwarf's and those "sunset" and golden Honey gourami's; the wild version of the honey gouramis are so much more interesting and appealing!!
> 
> Good luck in summer school! Sounds like...a fun time...:sarcastic:


Wild type fish are pretty nice. To be honest I'm more drawn to the subtle, "ugly" colored wild fish than the artificially bright domesticated ones. I've been interested in wild type live bearers for quite some time, but nice ones are so hard to find. 

There's SO many awesome species of wild gourami... Way more fun then the domestic ones that everyone has in their tanks.

I'm sure there are wild betta species that can tolerate higher temps. I'll do some poking around for you after school, I would love for you to experience the pleasure of owning wilds! 

Thanks for the good luck !


----------



## lilnaugrim

I agree! And in the right environment they are no longer "ugly", they all have a subtle beauty about them that if put in the right conditions become more beautiful than any domesticated fish. I know I'm practically saying the same thing you are lol, but just had to emphasize my love for the wilds out there!

It's a shame I have three girl gouramis, I was looking forward to having my first mouth brooding experience! Sigh...and of course the only place who sells these gouramis happens to be one with a minimum purchase order of 24 dollars and shipping is 54 dollars to my house >.> there HAS to be someone else who sells Vaillanti's!

And thanks! I know most of them do prefer the cooler waters but I'm sure there's something out there that I could keep happy!


----------



## MattsBettas

That's a shame about the gouramis, lil. I really hope you can get a male somewhere! 

---------

So, not much to update on in regards to fish besides having my female sparkling gourami die. Sucks but it isn't a devastating loss. The single male will probably lose his bachelor tank and be thrown in somewhere I can fit him.

On a more personal note, I'm almost done summer school! One more day, and it's an easy one too. I am so happy, I want to feel like I'm actually on summer break. I also really, _really_ want to sleep in! 

I also started watching House today. Oh my goodness. I planned on only watching one, but I netflix binged and watched like four or five. It wasn't good... But at the same time it really was. I feel like I'm going to finish the series by the end of August, if not sooner.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yeah, I hope so too!!

Sorry about your female, it's a shame we can't ship across the border because I have 4 and one could easily find a home with you but alas, US and Canada border laws suck lol.

I love House! I haven't watched all of it yet, only seen a few episodes here and there but I do love the show. It's on my list to watch, currently I'm still watching M*A*S*H on TV at night and then in my supposed spare time I want to finish Scrubs. Huh, I seem to like these medical/army type shows XD Good luck binge watching! haha


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I suppose it's about time for an update? Oh gosh I need to pick it up on here. 

Not much to say in the way of fish. Nothing new has died and nothing new has been born or bought, right now I'm in a sort of "maintenance and growth mode". I have to catch up on water changes and will get that all done soon, but other then that there's really nothing. I did pick up a couple games to ref on Saturday, so that's an easy fifty bucks for something... maybe even some more fish at the end of the month when the order goes out. 

On Friday I finished my summer school course (once again, I'm all good and didn't fail anything, I just need room to do my sciences!) and got a good mark, it was (slightly) above eighty and that's in a course that I'm not typically great at. To tell you the truth it really doesn't matter, but it's a requirement to graduate and that's the only reason I did it. 

Saturday night I spent with a good friend at an Iggy Azalea concert... It was actually a great show and a ton of fun. Good rapper, and better live. That stole a bit of my fish money but it really wasn't that much (I sell two pairs of ocellata at the going price right now and I'm more than covered haha), and worth every penny. 

Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday were pretty uneventful. Today I volunteered at The Mustard Seed for a couple of hours, which is an organization that helps out less fortunate individuals and families. It was basically just sorting through donations but the people there are nice so it was pretty fun and more importantly for a great cause. 

I spent all day inside today because we got all of the smoke from some wild fires. For most of the day the sky had an orange-pink hue and for a while ash was falling, which was kind of remarkable. I was going to say something else here but I guess I forgot. That's what happens when you make such a long post I guess!

Oh and lil, I'm done season one and started season two! It's so good! 

Uhh... I know everyone likes pictures, so here's a few of the fish I like on the stock list of the wholesaler we do group orders from! 


Xiphophorous maculatus 'rio grijalva'-

This is the only other picture I found of these guys. Wouldn't three or four look cool in a lightly planted, driftwooded (yep, driftwooded) ten gallon?

Betta brownorum - (Thanks LBF, I think this is your pic) 

There's no way I could justify it... But if I could get my water to 6.0 or lower...

Sawbwa resplendens-

I love these so much. They would make a densely planted 20g look so darn good...


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Haha you chose a picture of my ugly previous male. Should have gone with the brownorum male who was father of the ones I have now. 

I've seen the last fish on your list before. It's a very unusual colouration (although I think in some pictures there has been some adjustment going on), and I don't know why it's not more popular.


----------



## MattsBettas

To be honest I just scrolled through Google Image results for "betta brownorum" and used the one that was a good picture and not obnoxiously watermarked, I only figured it was yours from the brown water, woods, and leaves. I guess I should have asked permission! 

The male looks pretty good, he isn't horrifically washed out or enhanced or at an awful angle like most of the results.

The last one, Sawbwa resplendens, is really nice. They come from Lake Inle in Indonesia, which is also the home of Danio erythromicron; the emerald dwarf raspbora ( http://diszhal.info/halak/Danio_erythromicron.jpg ), some other danios, and a loach. The Sawbwa have that contrast between the blue and orange and even with enhanced pictures I figure they're still beautiful fish. Plus, my nasty water is perfect for them!


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I was going to mention the danio erythromicron. I know they like harder water and I've seen them in person - they are very nice. 

You don't need to ask permission to use the photos. I was a little more irritated with the FB page I found using a photo of my persephone to sell persephone as that could be taken as misleading. 

You keeping any of your F1 ocellata?


----------



## MattsBettas

I've wanted the Danio erythromicron for a while now. I've actually seen them at a lfs before (love them in person, they're so shy... Yet lovely), but they were just too much for how many I wanted. Those are a fish that will be added to the collection once I get a job haha. 

Thanks. I like to ask, it's always safer I guess. 

I am most definitely keeping a pair or two of the ocellata. I love them too much to get rid of them, they're like giant betta-puppies.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Haha yes. Canada's fish prices often seem comparable to Australia's, and for schooling fish where you need more than a couple of individuals, it can get expensive quickly for the rarer species. 

That whole complex are so boisterous and personable. If I wasn't quick enough with getting food into the tank I'd usually end up wearing an ideii or unimaculata.


----------



## MattsBettas

Schooling fish are killer for people like you and me, who won't settle for neon tetras. Like, I was looking at the Corydoras duplicarius (a fairly rare and very nice cory) at one of my local stores, and for a fish that really should be in a group of six or more they make it pretty hard to keep them in proper conditions... At 16 or 17 bucks a piece. 

I did see chili raspboras for 3$ each... They might even still be there, I just don't have anywhere for them or any huge desire to keep them. 

I love the unimac complex, I can't say they're my favorite since I've only had members of two, but they have some of, if not the best personalities of all the fish I've owned. They might not be the flashiest, but they make up for it. 

Speaking of unimacs I LOVE Betta 'antuta'. Oh man those are nice fish. For those who don't know-







They're kinda like ocellatas with the scales of a smaragdina. As far as I know they're fairly new to the scene too, I don't know anyone in Canada wih them and would love to be the first... If a pair _ever_ becomes available. But hey, chances are I'll be employed by then!


----------



## MattsBettas

I got a dog!


----------



## Fenghuang

Congratulations! How did that happen? What's the little (or not so little) guy/gal's name?


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks! It kinda just happened, I was helping my mum in the yard and I found a wasp nest right where we were working so we took a break. She went through our Humane Society's website and saw a bichon (which we have been looking for for a while), and we basically hopped into the car and sped across the city haha. 

We got there, went around all the rooms, and she was in he last room in the last aisle in with an ugly cocker spaniel with a nice personality. After that it was basically just waiting and paperwork and stuff. 

She's a bichon frise crossed with something that's anyone's guess, but she's very similar to a pure bichon in most ways... The only thing we figured was different is that her hair is a bit coarser. I'm sure we will be able to tell more when our friend's purebred bichon comes over for a visit.

Her name is Midge, and she's seven years and one month old (or at least that's what they can tell based on dental work). She was picked up as a stray by the pound on June 18th (or very close to then), and had a bit of medical work done... She's had most of her front teeth pulled (it looks kinda ridiculous actually, like a old person without their dentures. She can still eat and chew without much of an issue because she has the back ones still.), she was treated for a bladder infection and blood in the urine, and she was spayed yesterday. She's still on meds, a pill and a liquid that we have to squirt down her throat. Pills are easy, the liquid painkiller isn't fun. 

Here she is! By the way, if anyone is tuning in now there is a more comprehensive update on everything on page 153. Even has pictures. 




I posted this last one to instagram to let my friends and followers know haha. And yes, she definitely does need a haircut. It's already booked.


----------



## Fenghuang

Aww, what a cute dog. It's nice that you guys would adopt an older dog. I volunteer at animal shelter during the school year, and there are a lot of adults that have been there for a long time, some for years. I feel like with an older animal, you can be more sure of what you are getting personality and temperament-wise, but the majority still seem to go for the puppies and the kittens.

After my boy (cat) got neutered, the people at the clinic suggested that I squirt the liquid painkiller into his food and see if he'll eat it himself first before trying to force the whole plastic syringe down his throat. It was banana flavored—not really sure what that means for a cat—and he hardly noticed.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Awww, what a doll!! She's adorable!! :-D

I'm glad you guys were able to get her!!!


----------



## beautiful Betta

I wouldn't say she looks seven, going on how clean and bright the coat looks. She is beautiful. I have a toy poodle, Apricot in colour, and he is just over two and due to the shape of mouth closeness of teeth his teeth got bad quite quickly and I noticed something was wrong when he had a loose tooth. I have not long had his teeth cleaned and he had to have extractions one on the side two from the very front and one bottom front. I did try and brush his teeth, but he even gets build up on the insides. 

He now has his teeth cleaned every day and I even do the insides top and bottom, which with most dogs you don't need to do the inside. He tolerates my enthusiastic thorough clean but he's not that keen. My other dog who is 4 his teeth are fine. All I can say is thank god for dog toothpaste they actually like.


----------



## DaytonBetta

My dog takes liquid medicine every day for congestive heart failure. I just put it on her food and she eats it. I used to put it in her mouth, but she eats the food fine so that works better. If you still want to put it in her mouth put the end of the syringe at the side/back of her mouth, just inside the lips.


----------



## Alaura123

Ok just read through all 155 pages, lol no life, but this thread is very interesting, and I have learned a lot about wild bettas and splendens

congrats on your new dog! She is adorable, I already have three dogs, and my mom breeds English Bulldogs, our bulldog Lulu is having pups soon


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## MattsBettas

Fenghuang said:


> Aww, what a cute dog. It's nice that you guys would adopt an older dog. I volunteer at animal shelter during the school year, and there are a lot of adults that have been there for a long time, some for years. I feel like with an older animal, you can be more sure of what you are getting personality and temperament-wise, but the majority still seem to go for the puppies and the kittens.
> 
> After my boy (cat) got neutered, the people at the clinic suggested that I squirt the liquid painkiller into his food and see if he'll eat it himself first before trying to force the whole plastic syringe down his throat. It was banana flavored—not really sure what that means for a cat—and he hardly noticed.


Thanks feng! We kinda like having an adult, it's easier for us and despite being found as a stray she's obviously been trained to some extent. That, and you're dead on with the "you know what you're getting". Puppies and kittens undeniably have their own appeal... But our dog is pretty great. Thanks for the advice on the painkillers, it was only for three nights though so she's off them now. 



lilnaugrim said:


> Awww, what a doll!! She's adorable!! :-D
> 
> I'm glad you guys were able to get her!!!


Thanks lil! 



beautiful Betta said:


> I wouldn't say she looks seven, going on how clean and bright the coat looks. She is beautiful. I have a toy poodle, Apricot in colour, and he is just over two and due to the shape of mouth closeness of teeth his teeth got bad quite quickly and I noticed something was wrong when he had a loose tooth. I have not long had his teeth cleaned and he had to have extractions one on the side two from the very front and one bottom front. I did try and brush his teeth, but he even gets build up on the insides.
> 
> He now has his teeth cleaned every day and I even do the insides top and bottom, which with most dogs you don't need to do the inside. He tolerates my enthusiastic thorough clean but he's not that keen. My other dog who is 4 his teeth are fine. All I can say is thank god for dog toothpaste they actually like.


Thanks, but I think I'll go with the vet's estimate... I don't know tons about dogs but I'm sure dental examinations are a better tool then digital photos, where the color could easily change between my crappy cellphone camera and the lighting and your monitor. To be fair, though, our vet told us that it's possible she is younger then seven since her teeth were in far from good shape. 

Speaking of teeth, we're going to have to watch hers and brush a lot too. Gonna have to find some good toothpaste, I guess. 



DaytonBetta said:


> My dog takes liquid medicine every day for congestive heart failure. I just put it on her food and she eats it. I used to put it in her mouth, but she eats the food fine so that works better. If you still want to put it in her mouth put the end of the syringe at the side/back of her mouth, just inside the lips.


Thanks! Like I said earlier, liquid meds are all done now, but I really do appreciate the tip! 



Alaura123 said:


> Ok just read through all 155 pages, lol no life, but this thread is very interesting, and I have learned a lot about wild bettas and splendens
> 
> congrats on your new dog! She is adorable, I already have three dogs, and my mom breeds English Bulldogs, our bulldog Lulu is having pups soon


Haha that's awesome, I'm actually pretty impressed to hear that. You basically read through what... 16 months of my life when it comes to the fish. 

Thanks, and good luck with the puppies! I can't even imagine puppies at this point...


----------



## MattsBettas

So, update! 

I got my sparkling gourami a girl! I spent the afternoon out with my dad and got him to drive me to my favorite LFS since we were in the north side anyways and I try to get to the shop whenever I'm up there. I really do think this one's a female and she's more mature anyways, so I'm hoping for some babies. 

I also met a very nice woman who I chatted with at the store. I don't remember how the conversation started but we were both waiting for service (great store and awesome employees, but the service.. Isn't. It's beyond worth it though) and she ended up going first and asking the employee if any of their staff would be interested in six celestial pearl danios, and it was a no. I kinda looked at her, and so we ended up exchanging numbers... Short story is that I might end up with six free CPDs. My luck was good, for once! I did wake up with the beginning of a cold, though... Oh well. 

Oh, and lil, since I'm sure you'll end up reading this, I finished season two of house and now it's getting good... The 20 second automatic start on netflix is so bad!


----------



## lilnaugrim

Sparklers!!! Gee, it's a shame we don't live in the same country since I'm quite sure I now have four girls to one boy lol and the boy is the baby one of the bunch!

Yay for free CPD's! They're amazing little fish and I can't wait to bump up my school one day! I just hope the new ones will accept flake foods too ahah!

Ah! That's awesome! I need to find time to catch up on my shows again, too many good ones to watch! Eventually I will get to House and Bones, always loved to catch the glimpses of Bones on TV when I could! It's a shame there aren't more hours in the day either! ;-)


----------



## Alaura123

That's great! Glad you got your gourami girl, That's also really lucky you found someone who can possibly get some CPDs from. I hope you feel better ( even if its just a lil cold


----------



## MattsBettas

> Sparklers!!! Gee, it's a shame we don't live in the same country since I'm quite sure I now have four girls to one boy lol and the boy is the baby one of the bunch!
> 
> Yay for free CPD's! They're amazing little fish and I can't wait to bump up my school one day! I just hope the new ones will accept flake foods too ahah!
> 
> Ah! That's awesome! I need to find time to catch up on my shows again, too many good ones to watch! Eventually I will get to House and Bones, always loved to catch the glimpses of Bones on TV when I could! It's a shame there aren't more hours in the day either!


Haha I really hope this pair breeds for me. That would be neat! Sparklers are great fish. The person who caught them apparently had some breed in out water so it IS possible! 

I have to watch bones! That'll go on the list... Ugh tv is is so addicting. 



> That's great! Glad you got your gourami girl, That's also really lucky you found someone who can possibly get some CPDs from. I hope you feel better ( even if its just a lil cold


Thank you! 

-----

I have so much work to do. My room needs to be throughly cleaned and fish tanks are far behind... I was in a bit of a lull to be honest. It happens. And of course I get sick the day I get the motivation to do things! Still, I'm counting myself as lucky just for finding that woman with the CPOs!


----------



## Alaura123

ugh I hear you with the cleaning, It just never seems to get done for me no matter how much I try ( that's brothers for ya) -_-


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh I know. I'm an awful procrastinator, but sometimes things just have to get done. Thirty people are over tomorrow so I'm cleaning up whether I like it or not. 

I forgot to add that the LFS had a good dwarf rainbow selection today. They had threadfins, Furcata, and, I think my favorite, Spotted Blue-eyes (and maybe one more...). Internet pictures included, because dwarf rainbows are neat little things. 

Threadfin- (to be honest these ones kinda freak me out)


Furcata-


Spotted Blue-eye-


----------



## lilnaugrim

Whoa....those fins on the first Rainbows! Wowee!!


----------



## Olympia

They're nice. But their hidden most of the time. :lol: Two males will spar by opening and closing their fins really fast.


----------



## lilnaugrim

The Threadfins? Yeah, my Gertudae is super outgoing and is always flaring around to my Betta, the CPD's and the Guppies lol


----------



## Agent13

Why do threadfins freak you out ? Lol
I have a group in my 55 and I love how the males display like that . Great fish !


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## MattsBettas

Haha it's the super long disproportionate fins. They kinda remind me of harvestmen (daddy long legs) which I have a totally irrational fear of. Spiders and pretty much all the other bugs are fine... It's just those. I'm sure I could handle and love a group of threadfins but I'd probably prefer spotted blue eyes or another species. 

I was going to get an update here, but I think I'm going to try and get some decent pictures first!


----------



## lilnaugrim

YES! Pictures! :-D

Yeah, I have a fear of Daddy Long legs too :-( and leaves though I've almost gotten over that just fine. But when I was a kid, I was pushing one of my toys around, I can't remember what it was but a whole swarm of them came up and started to crawl all over me....yuck! Getting heeby-jeebies from the thought right now lol. And then I once had a tornado of leaves come up and circle around me, I was only like 3-4 and so I freaked out according to my dad and never liked leaves after that. That fear I'm pretty much over, I just don't like picking through leaves....there might be spiders or other creepy crawlies under there!!! lol

Anyway, through that, you're not alone ;-)


----------



## Agent13

Lol! I really can't judge either of you. I have an irrational fear of livebearers .. So bad that I've had nightmares that my X had stocked the 225g with a bunch if different ones .. Was a heart racing scary nightmare lol. No proper rational explanation . 


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----------



## MattsBettas

> [YES! Pictures!
> 
> Yeah, I have a fear of Daddy Long legs too and leaves though I've almost gotten over that just fine. But when I was a kid, I was pushing one of my toys around, I can't remember what it was but a whole swarm of them came up and started to crawl all over me....yuck! Getting heeby-jeebies from the thought right now lol. And then I once had a tornado of leaves come up and circle around me, I was only like 3-4 and so I freaked out according to my dad and never liked leaves after that. That fear I'm pretty much over, I just don't like picking through leaves....there might be spiders or other creepy crawlies under there!!! lol
> 
> Anyway, through that, you're not alone


Yea. I'm actually terrified of them... Like if one gets on me I usually end up running around while exercising my vocabulary... It's not fun. Apparently I used to play with them as a kid.... The thought makes me feel gross haha. I'm slowly getting over it... Like I can walk past them without it being a big deal now. 



> Lol! I really can't judge either of you. I have an irrational fear of livebearers .. So bad that I've had nightmares that my X had stocked the 225g with a bunch if different ones .. Was a heart racing scary nightmare lol. No proper rational explanation .


Haha livebearers is a new one. Is it all livebearers? Or just the big four? (If you have nightmares about mollies and platies and the like in all their weird colors... I don't blame you!) 

There are I some pretty cool ones that might be different enough for you... Like pike livebearers or something. 

------

Working on pics! I went for a big bike ride to our giant mall so I missed a lot of the day but I promise to try and get pics!


----------



## Mahsfish

When I was a little kid I had a ton of guppies. And I had a nightmare that they reproduced so much the tank exploded and millions of guppies were everywhere... 
And I still play with daddy long legs aha


----------



## Alaura123

I like how daddy long legs look, but I just cant..... touch them :blueshake:


----------



## Agent13

It's all livebearers ., mainly yes.. The big four . I tried to want pike livebearers .. I mean at least they eat their siblings (hahaa .. Yes that's actually a selling point to me) Was going to get them but at the end of the day .. I can't get that they're livebearers outa my head lol


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----------



## MattsBettas

So, I'm at the lake right now so no pictures (I failed haha), but I do have a few updates! 

So, I picked up an nice piece of grapevine at the lfs the other day. It's a great little piece that will work in a five or a ten, and by extension I should probably tell you all about the plans I have haha.

So, I bought the wood with the intention of putting it in my five, planting it, and getting at least a trio of Danio erythromicron (Emerald Dwarf Raspbora). I'd use that group to breed, and essentially try to build a nice group of them. I've wanted them forever and when I came oh so close to getting a group of Sawbwa resplendens but backed out at the last second because the order was pushed up and I just wasn't ready for them, I really wanted something new and blue and I thought these would fill the gap nicely. Picture- 


If I ended up using the five I would need to move the two bettas out. I'm seriously considering ditching the crayfish and dividing up the tank, and dividing the ten I have with jars in it and just selling the surplus. 

Someone on my local forum listed 18L of ADA Malaya for 26$... I should totally do it. I just should. That's a steal, in store that would have to have cost around a hundred bucks. ADA is top of the line... Anyone have any experience? I asked LBF but haven't heard a response yet... How far will 2 9l bags get me? From the online tool calculator I used it would be around 5l for a ten gallon tank... Could be wrong. 

I plan on listing my scarlet endlers for sale as soon as I get home. Do you all think 8$/trio or 3$/fish or 20$/10 is fair? Or should I charge something different? Hope they sell, they could help me break even on these recent purchases.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Hey Matt, I have no idea how far a 9L bag of soil will go to be honest. I only use a very small amount in my tanks and never really measure, just pour it out. 

The Malaya is good, but I'm not sure if it will try and buffer your water down as it is the most acidic of the aqua soils. It also contains only a very small amount of ammonia. I've never had any issues with ammonia spikes when using fast-growing plants even in brand new set-ups.


----------



## MattsBettas

Alright. I figure that 18L will go quite far for someone like me who's biggest tank is 20g. From what I've read it should help buffer my water but I'm not going to rely on it, it would certainly be nice though. 

I messaged him today and told him I'd buy it. If I can get there before anyone else it's mine- that might be hard, though, I won't be in the city until Tuesday. I would really love for this to go through though.


----------



## MattsBettas

Just got home, I had a great little trip. Got lots of sun, had lots of fun (did I just rhyme?), spent time with my family... It was awesome! I think this weekend was when summer finally started feeling like summer for me. 

I may or may not have left all of my tank lights on for four and a half days... Ugh. Stupid mistake. It didn't really do any harm though, I'll just have to do some algae scrubbing and leave them off tomorrow. The fish are alright. 

Haven't heard back from the aquasoil seller. I messaged him last night to ask if it was still available and set up a pickup time and he hasn't read it yet, which is frustrating (less frustrating than if he HAD read it and just didn't reply, though). I really hope I can get it. 

I'm almost certainly going to list my scarlet endlers today or tomorrow, which involves getting nice pictures that I'll have no reason not to share with you all .


----------



## MattsBettas

Still haven't heard from the soil seller, he hasn't even logged on since the fourth. I'm honestly starting to move past being frustrated to just being annoyed, I mean putting things up for sale and then not even checking in or updating (for all I know it could be sold) isn't exactly good seller etiquette. I'm thinking about just sending him an email, he posted his address on a different post lol. To be fair I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe something urgent came up. I just hope it's not sold. 

The scarlet endlers are in the photo tank. Working on getting pics. I'm so excited to finally move some more stock out.


----------



## MattsBettas

Got a Black Moscow guppy. Whoops. I swear I didn't mean for it to happen but she was the only girl in tank full of males and I felt bad for her and girls are hard to find... Ugh. I'm bad. 

Looks like that ~2.5 bow will be put to use...


----------



## lilnaugrim

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one who pity-buys! It makes me feel better about it at least  

Black Moscows are great though, especially true Moscows  I miss mine though I still have a few females who seem like they are Blacks but it's pretty difficult to tell at this point since they're still young and they come from a Blue tailed Black female and Snakeskin father...so who knows lol.


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha I know. To be honest this was like half a pity buy and half a "you look cool and your babies will too, so what the hell" type thing. 

Uh... What makes a guppy a true Moscow? I'm so ridiculously new to guppies... I swear I'm breeding rare and threatened (so... That sounds a lot better than it actually is but it's true) species but I have no clue about the fish practically everyone starts with.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Ahah!! No worries, I got what you meant haha.

True Moscow Guppies are entirely black, the head and stomach may be a little lighter but there should be absolutely no blues, yellows or reds on the body. Many people try to sell Black guppies with dark blue tails as True Moscows but they aren't. There are Blue Moscows, Moscow just means a solid color so Blue Moscow is solid Blue, Red Moscows are red, etc., etc.,


----------



## MattsBettas

Alright, thanks lil! I think they are true Moscows, she has pretty good coverage and the males in the tank looked great and I couldn't see any irids either. Of course I'm FAR from an expert... But going from your description they're true Moscows. I sure hope so, but either way they look nice. 

Here's some very crappy pics of the males... I love their tails and might just end up with one but I wanted that girl.-


And, also exciting, they had clown killifish! I love these, and at 7$ each... Idk. They're beautiful.


----------



## BambooTikiBettaGirl84

This might be off topic, but what are the green bunches in the last picture? Is that algae or plants? They are kinda cute how they are growing in different places like bushes.

The lil guppies are very cute! I have never seen a clown killifish, did you buy it?


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Clown killifish are nice fish. Once they are familiar with you, they get very friendly and will hang around your hand pecking at it while you do maintenance or water changes. 

Not sure how they would deal with your water, but my group did spawn and produce fry in a heavily planted tank.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Awww Clowns! I've never seen Clowns in real life and I've wanted them too but I think I want my Dwarf Puffer more ^_^

Yeah, those look like good males! All Deltas. If she has fry you'll want a tank with good flow in it, guppies with large tails need to have a strong peduncle muscle and to do that you'll need decent flow through the tank to make them work to swim. Of course, not right away, but around a month to a month and a half when they start to develop more and won't get stuck in the filter or get blown everywhere. Otherwise you'll get males that are practically bent in half :-/


----------



## MattsBettas

BambooTikiBettaGirl84 said:


> This might be off topic, but what are the green bunches in the last picture? Is that algae or plants? They are kinda cute how they are growing in different places like bushes.
> 
> The lil guppies are very cute! I have never seen a clown killifish, did you buy it?


The green bunches are just algae. They had a really poor selection of plants today, oh well. I didn't buy the killifish... Yet. 



LittleBettaFish said:


> Clown killifish are nice fish. Once they are familiar with you, they get very friendly and will hang around your hand pecking at it while you do maintenance or water changes.
> 
> Not sure how they would deal with your water, but my group did spawn and produce fry in a heavily planted tank.


I'll have to read up on them a bit more... I can probably pull it off with the assistance of driftwood and ial, might not get breeding but they are really cool fish. Don't be surprised if I ask you more about them . How big do they get? These ones were absolutely tiny.



lilnaugrim said:


> Awww Clowns! I've never seen Clowns in real life and I've wanted them too but I think I want my Dwarf Puffer more ^_^
> 
> Yeah, those look like good males! All Deltas. If she has fry you'll want a tank with good flow in it, guppies with large tails need to have a strong peduncle muscle and to do that you'll need decent flow through the tank to make them work to swim. Of course, not right away, but around a month to a month and a half when they start to develop more and won't get stuck in the filter or get blown everywhere. Otherwise you'll get males that are practically bent in half :-/


Haha dwarf puffers are neat, never really had a huge desire for them though. Thanks for that tip, this is the great thing about these forums- I would never know that otherwise!


----------



## lilnaugrim

Happy to help!

I needed something else, something different. I would have loved to keep my Gouramis had I gotten at least one male and one female >.>


----------



## LittleBettaFish

They don't get very big at all. My biggest males used to be around the 3-3.5cm mark and the females were slightly smaller. 

Killifish are so adorable. I am contemplating adding a couple more species again. Me and my wild bettas are not on talking terms at the moment.


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Happy to help!
> 
> I needed something else, something different. I would have loved to keep my Gouramis had I gotten at least one male and one female >.>


I get it. Getting fish of all the same sex is no fun, even if they're nice fish. 



LittleBettaFish said:


> They don't get very big at all. My biggest males used to be around the 3-3.5cm mark and the females were slightly smaller.
> 
> Killifish are so adorable. I am contemplating adding a couple more species again. Me and my wild bettas are not on talking terms at the moment.


Alright, thanks. I'll have to do more research but I really do like them. How large of a tank would they need?


----------



## lilnaugrim

I believe you can easily house a pair in 5.5 gallons, 10 gallons for a group IIRC. Don't quote me though lol


----------



## LittleBettaFish

Are you talking clown killifish? You could very easily keep a breeding group in a 5 gallon tank. I've found they don't really utilise a lot of the bottom level of the tank, so if you had a wide, shallow tank, that would be perfect for them as they are quite active swimmers otherwise.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks, you two. I actually could see myself getting some of them, especially if it was in a five gallon or something doing weekly water changes with like 50/50 tap/RO or something like that would actually be feasible. What's an appropriately sized group? Is a pair alright, or should there be more? 

------- 
Ok, so here's my guppy! Is she a Moscow, lil? 

I know it's a crappy photo but scratched plastic bowfront tanks are _not_ forgiving. It does give you a bit of an idea of her coloration and spread and such. She isn't as fat as she looks, though. 

Used my photo taking setup today. It's a (apparently homemade) 1g tank I got for 4$ at the last auction (I have two of them, the other contains frogbit) with a paper background and some white foam thing underneath solely to protect my dresser. I took the pictures tonight, and will upload them tomorrow when I get the chance. I want to list them for sale ASAP! From what I saw on the camera display I actually got some decent ones.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yes! She's a very nice Moscow! Looks like she's a round tail though, I know she's still pretty young from the looks of it so it will grow out with age of course. Funny thing about Guppies though, you could have the blackest of black females with the darkest black male and they could throw a bunch of pale black/grey offspring and yet you pair a female with maybe only a black tail and dorsal and you could get the blackest offspring ever. It's frustrating sometimes because you almost never know what you'll get until you have a pure strain which is not terribly difficult to do, just takes time. Also, just another tidbit; for a good Guppy you want the dorsal and the caudal to match in colors. It doesn't matter for the Moscows of course since they should be all black anyway but say you got a Half Black boy that has a turquoise dorsal fin; he's no good, for breeding that is or showing ^_^


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks lil! I think it's safe to assume that genetically she's a delta (do you get what I'm saying? Or am I just so far off the mark here...) since she was in a tank full of deltas. Either way, she's a pretty attractive guppy... Especially for a female. By the way I actually did know that about the matching dorsal, it's like the only non common knowledge thing I did know. Seriously though thanks for all the tidbits, they definitely do help. 

---------

I'l tell you all the master plan I have at the moment... 

So, right now I have 12 domestics (I think). Eight in jars, two in a properly set up five gallon, and two in 1$ 1g (if I had a heated fishroom this is how EVERYBODY would be stored) home depot tubs. 

Once I get back from a little five day trip next week, I'll get rid of the crayfish (humanely, of course. She's going to my friend or being sold off), divide her tank into four sections, divide the tank used to hold jars into four sections, and move all the jar babies into those tanks. They'll fish in cycle, and all will be well. The two tub babies can be thrown in somewhere, like in breeding traps or something. 

I'll sell off at least four splendens, including a cull that's going to my cousin. That will take care of the breeding trap issue and clear out my five gallon so I can put Danio erythromicron or Clown Killifish in it. 

In a month or two, I'm hoping my ocellata will be big enough to confidently sex and sell. Then I can clear out that ten gallon and breed or something in it. 

After I'm done all of the tank related tasks I have to get done by the end of the summer, I want to do another spawn or two. They will definitely be carrying on my two lines. 

My summer fish tasks are: 

-Cleaning out and re-lighting the ocellata 20g 

-Moving the Endler's in the 20g and breeding trap to the pygmy cory 10g

-Getting rid of the [insert adjective of choice] BGA in the ricefish tank

-Begin selling off scarlet endler colony (they're getting listed tomorrow for sure, finally!)

- Reculture cultures

-General fishroom cleanup

---------

In case you can't tell this post became just as much for my sake as it was sharing with you all, lol. The next post will be a major photo dump since I did a big shoot today (originally for the endlers). Here's an example, because pure text walls are so darn boring and this fish is pooping and ruining everything.


----------



## MattsBettas

So, as promised, here's my major photo dump! Should I post these in a separate thread? I mean, my journal has a pretty much set audience. 

Nice marbling, interesting iridescence as well


















Probably my favorite picture of the shoot...


This girl is the spitting image of her mother, who was probably my favorite female of all time. 








The poop... Like seriously? Right now? 






Love this coloration, and this fish. Really started taking advantage of the macro lens in a couple shots of this girl. 


Love this shot... And the sass.










[/URL

Orange guy... Really just wanted a few good pics before he dies, he's starting to get old. He has the best eyes. 
[URL=http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/pickofthecritterpets/media/Betta080814/_04Y7527_zpsec734af5.jpg.html]

[/URL

[URL=http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/pickofthecritterpets/media/Betta080814/_04Y7550_zpsd25e3889.jpg.html]













And this is only a few of the fish! Please don't use pics without permission. Thanks for looking! Don't forget to read my above post!


----------



## BambooTikiBettaGirl84

My goodness you take wonderful pictures! Even of the poop girl 

Are the first two girls? I absolutely love them!


----------



## Fenghuang

That bright yellow girl with the blue and white fins? Oh my gosh, I love her. I assume she is from your blue pineapple x yellow spawn?


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you both. One of the benefits of having a hobbyist photographer as a family member is that I can steal (borrow) nice equipment occasionally. 

That blue and yellow girl is from the blue pineapple spawn. I love her... She has a good chance of being the F2 mother, but I only have females from that spawn (literally every male I wanted died... Ugh) so the father will likely be one of Houndini's fish from CJ (logisticsguy). I'm so excited to get back to spawning splendens. It sounds funny but sometimes I crave it... It's a bigger challenge than endlers or wilds, they're fun and all but splendens are definitely the most fun to breed. 

------

I forgot to add in the big text post above the pictures that my guppy is most likely gravid. If she is, her male fry will go in the section of a divided ten gallon that has the filter outflow in it (for the flow... Thanks lil!). I seriously didn't know what I was doing with a guppy... Whatever. She's a nice fish.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yes to the female most likely being a Delta. Funny since both my guppy parents were Delta's and large ones and yet I ended up with all my Snakeskin boys having Lyretails...strange. And no problem!


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha that kind of scares me, I hope is girl throws black babies at least. Fin type isn't all that important but I love the black. The whole round tail thing is kind of how I honk that while we call a lot of females plakats, they're really just veiltails that don't have an extended/arching caudal... Not many actual plakats are bred for the petstore markets. 

I got the scarlets listed on my local forum. Hopefully I get some interest.


----------



## lilnaugrim

I'm sure she will, especially if she's the sister of those boys which is very probable. Very similar, the females never show as good of tails as the males do, the females from my spawn still have sort of stubby tails compared to the males.


----------



## Sathori

I cannot get over that yellow body with blue/white fins girl <3 Good gravy that is a gorgeous fish!!! Can't. Stop. Staring.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks again lil 

Thank you, Sathori... There's going to be an F2 spawn with her or her comparable sister as the mother... For once being a Canadian in the hobby might play to your advantage. 

---------

I divided the sparklers tank today. It had to be done. I'm almost sure that I have a m/f pair, but the girl was showing fin damage so I want to get her all healed and grown a bit before any reintroductions. 

No interest in the endlers so far, but I did have someone contact me about bettas...


----------



## Sathori

MattsBettas said:


> Thank you, Sathori... There's going to be an F2 spawn with her or her comparable sister as the mother... For once being a Canadian in the hobby might play to your advantage.


Oh boy... Good thing I have some spare tanks kicking around :lol: It's about time that being a Canadian pays off lol


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha yea. I'm so excited, I'm going to try some new things and get them raised up faster... If all goes according to plan they'll be all full sized by the time spring/shipping season comes around.


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I'm leaving on a short little trip today. I'll only be gone for five days (including today and Friday, when I can feed them and do water changes), so the fish are fine and won't even need a sitter. We have to pass through Logisticsguy's city on our way back... Which obviously involves picking up a fish .

I'm going to get some pictures (these ones won't be as great since I just don't have time for the DSLR today) up for an interested buyer, which I'm really happy about. I need to move stock out. After I get home my "master plan" that I outlines on the previous page will start playing out... And I only have like 15 more days of summer to do it :-(.


----------



## Tress

Have a nice trip


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm home! (And have been for hours).

I had a busy but amazing day. Woke up early, had a great lunch at this bagel place that makes an amazing tuna sandwich on a bagel (sounds weird but it's so freakin good), got on the road, stopped at CJ's place, got home, got my dog, stuffed down supper, and then ran out to a late movie with one of my best friends who I haven't seen in around a month (one of us was always away). 

CJ's was great as always picked up two beautiful fish... One purple boy who will hopefully father a spawn and one orange dalmation girl (hopefully). Visiting with him is such a pleasure, we talked for way longer than we should (like always) about everything from antibiotic use to Thai breeders to spirulina. I have nothing bad to say about him, he's a great guy with amazing fish and 100% healthy stock and tanks... To me, at least, he's the ideal seller. 

All the fish at home are good too... No deaths from what I saw and the guppy girl has squared out -_-. I think I hoped she was pregnant when I bought her, but still... Oh well, at least she'll pay for herself. Let's hope for healthy fry! 

I'll try to get pictures up tomorrow but it's late and I'm exhausted so it may not be until later tomorrow haha.


----------



## BlueInkFish

^__^! Welcome back!! Can't wait too see those pics!!! How do you feel!? Exhausted XD?!


----------



## lilnaugrim

Oo yum! We have a similar Bagel place where you can pretty much get anything on a bagel like tuna salad, chicken salad, I generally get red pepper humus on mine..ugg, soooo good!

+1 to CJ being an all around awesome person! :-D


----------



## MattsBettas

litelboyblu said:


> ^__^! Welcome back!! Can't wait too see those pics!!! How do you feel!? Exhausted XD?!


Thanks! I'm a bit tired, but whatever. 



lilnaugrim said:


> Oo yum! We have a similar Bagel place where you can pretty much get anything on a bagel like tuna salad, chicken salad, I generally get red pepper humus on mine..ugg, soooo good!
> 
> +1 to CJ being an all around awesome person! :-D


Haha yea. I actually wrote down a ll the ingredients to this sandwich on my phone, it was so good and the place is like four hours away so I can't just have it whenever. 

I have a question for you... So my guppy girl's getting really close, she's starting to square out. What do it do? Do I leave her with her fry? Do I take her out? Anything I should know?


----------



## lilnaugrim

Once she's within a few hours or more of birth, her ovipositer will actually expand, you may or may not see it though. But it's best if you can get her into a breeder box as stress free as possible; you can chorale her in with some mesh or something. If you have only a breeder net then wait for her to give birth, hopefully you're around before she eats them all and then just net them into the breeder net. Feed her well and she may not eat all the fry, or at least is less apt to. You can leave her with the fry if she's not full grown, my juvie guppies never ate the fry so you may be lucky if you just want to leave them there.


----------



## MattsBettas

Should I still move her to the trap if she's in her own tank (no other inhabitants or dangerous filter)?


----------



## lilnaugrim

It is best if you want to keep most of the fry so she doesn't eat them. I don't know exactly how big she is so as I said, if she's younger then most likely she won't eat all of them but there is a possibility still.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks lil, she is younger (hard to describe how big... Far from full grown, though) so I'll hope for the best but I'm also at home all the time during the summer so if I'm lucky I'll walk in before she gets too many. I've been stuffing her full of NLS today, tomorrow morning it's going to be brine shrimp... I know I sound bad, over feeding and all, but with high quality food there isn't actually a huge risk and I would rather she be a little full and have surviving babies anyways. Plus she just went for four or five days without any food. 

------

So, today I started a massive clean on the ricefish tank that involved me giving up on directly applying H2O2 so I just dumped a good portion of a bottle in, after I removed the fish of course. The bubbles were awesome! Die BGA, die! I'm actually so fed up with it, it's like the herpes of the algaes (ok, technically it's a bacteria)... Never goes away. I'm at the point that I took out all the plants so I can just hit the tank with whatever I want, I'm actually getting close to using antibiotics which if anyone knows me is usually a huge no-no. 

I also got some fish rearranged, I really need to get these ten gallons divided... Right now I'm just waiting for my friend to give me an answer on whether or not he wants the crayfish, then I'll go ahead with the plan. If all goes well I'll have everyone out of jars by the end of summer. 

In other news, I'm seriously considering selling my ricefish group. They are beautiful fish, but I feel like someone with a nice planted tank (with compatible inhabitants, unlike my tanks) would appreciate them more and it would free up a ten gallon for a splendens spawn or something. 

Here's a couple bad pictures of my new male from CJ, this guy might even get a name... Lol. I realized once I got home how similar he looks to my favorite splendens of all time, a multi male bred by Oldfishlady. I'm excited to watch him grow up... He's only seven weeks old! 

As you can see we started flare training today, I want to keep him and his fins in good shape. You may notice that he already reaches 180 (7 weeks!!!).





And here's that fish from OFL, for comparison. Hopefully he'll look even more like it as he grows, he will probably/hopefully develop more of a white band on the dorsal and caudal which will help...


----------



## lilnaugrim

I always over feed my guppies lol, the most of the juvies are in the 20 anyway so I'm sure the plants enjoy a little extra feed haha.

That boy is certainly beautiful!! He's long fin?


----------



## logisticsguy

I am so glad you like him Matt. You sure can see a lot of his dad in him. The flare training is so good for the fish mentally and physically. You must give him a name Houdini Jr. maybe lol Hope he makes lots of babies for you. Your visit was great, so much fun talking betta


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## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I always over feed my guppies lol, the most of the juvies are in the 20 anyway so I'm sure the plants enjoy a little extra feed haha.
> 
> That boy is certainly beautiful!! He's long fin?


Thanks! He is long finned, I know... Isn't that strange for me? He'll be bred to a HMPK, and I'll work on shortening the tail in subsequent generations I think. And sometimes plants and snails are a great justification for overfeeding, I mean I'll never tell someone to do it but let's face it, it happens. No babies yet... But I'm filling her up and watching her carefully. 



logisticsguy said:


> I am so glad you like him Matt. You sure can see a lot of his dad in him. The flare training is so good for the fish mentally and physically. You must give him a name Houdini Jr. maybe lol Hope he makes lots of babies for you. Your visit was great, so much fun talking betta


I'm very impressed by him... This is the most I've liked a betta in a while. And a halfmoon at that... I'm 99% certain that the last HM I owned was Spike. 

Houndini Jr... I like it. I'm hoping Houndini's grandchildren will look even more like him, but I'm starting to think that more like their dad wouldn't be a bad thing! 

By the way I figured out what that fold in his tail is, it's from a stray ray that somehow grew out of place from the penduncle. It's not a big deal, probably caused by an injury at a young age or a wacky mutation but I'm not worried about it. Doesn't subtract anything from the fish!

The orange girl is doing really well too, tiny but still looks great. 

---------

Sorry to both of you if any of that is formatted oddly/awkward, it's like 2am.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Lol, no worries! You wrote decently coherent or at least enough that I understand without issue ;-)

Yeah, even though I slightly overfeed the guppies, they gobble it all up anyway so it's not like it's sitting there rotting unlike feeding new born fry, guppies are completely insatiable, okay maybe ALL fish are completely insatiable but oh well :roll::dunno:


----------



## MattsBettas

Still no babies... I guess I _really_ can't judge when they're close. I'm sure it'll be soon. 

In other news, my friend decided to take the crayfish! I'm really happy about that, it means I can divide up her tank and get all my babies (they're not babies, really... But I still call them that) out of jars by the end of the summer. I'll get them all into tip top shape, and sell off a few. That tank is going to need one hell of a cleaning, it's so gross. 

I also recultured my micro and banana worms. I came super close to losing the banana worms... I honestly didn't think I really had any, but I saw a single worm on the side of the container today so that means there's bound to be more. Now it's just a waiting game to make sure they come back. I really hope I don't lose the banana worms, they're my go to first food for splendens. 

Right now I'm pondering a couple things... whether or not moving the ocellata juvies into the empty 20g is feasible (is need a stand and a heater), and whether or not I should sell off my ricefish group. I kind of want to get rid of the ricefish, I mean, they're beautiful and fascinating but I don't really love them and it would guarantee me a spawn tank. 

Anyways, fish are all good, the ones from CJ are settling in fantastically, ocellata are now taking and loving NLS small fish, and I found 250$ in cash that I forgot I had. I'm happy.


----------



## hrutan

Found money is the _best_.


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## Alaura123

Seems like everything is going good right now. That's good


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## logisticsguy

Way to go saving the banana worms. Wow that amazes me that he has that wild ray! I checked all the siblings and it looks like he was the only one. I wondered what that was! Im not sure what the significance is genetically I am asking a more seasoned thai breeder about it. The spawn he is from was moved to a bigger tank and its like they grew overnight and gained more color so I guess they like it. Yay to finding the 250 that is terrific.


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## MattsBettas

hrutan said:


> Found money is the _best_.


Yes, yes it is. I was so surprised, I mean in the back of my mind I knew I had it somewhere... It just sat under some papers or something for a few months. Who knew cleaning up could make your day... 



Alaura123 said:


> Seems like everything is going good right now. That's good


It is good. Right now I'm on an "up" in the hobby, I find it goes in ups and downs for most people... Trick is making the "ups" last as long as possible . 



logisticsguy said:


> Way to go saving the banana worms. Wow that amazes me that he has that wild ray! I checked all the siblings and it looks like he was the only one. I wondered what that was! Im not sure what the significance is genetically I am asking a more seasoned thai breeder about it. The spawn he is from was moved to a bigger tank and its like they grew overnight and gained more color so I guess they like it. Yay to finding the 250 that is terrific.


Yea I don't really have a clue what that ray is, my theory is that it's just a random genetic mutation that caused the cells in that area to make another ray instead of fin when he was just tiny, but who knows. Can you see the ray in the first picture of him? Excited to hear what the Thai breeder has to say. Glad to hear the rest of the spawn is doing well, did that one I wanted that we couldn't sex (hope you remember...) develop any more?


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## MattsBettas

Got rid of Shelly (yes she has a name... It's a bit of a joke between me and my brother) the crayfish today! Finally! This basically means that I get a whole new ten gallon tank... Woo! She went to my friend so I'll even get to see her every once in a while... I don't imagine missing her terribly, though. 

Next step is dividing the tank up and getting the jarred fish into it. I'm thinking I'll divide it into 5, it's a lot but it'll only hold that many until a few sell. Better than the jars anyways. 

I also visited my youngest cousin and her family, who will be getting a fish I bred. I was anticipating a tiny 0.5g death trap, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw that her dad found a ~5 gallon filtered tank somewhere... It made me happy. Now I just have to convince him to get a heater (or I'll just buy her one for her birthday in November). 

So it's good news all around, I've been having a great couple of days. Just trying not to think of going back to school in a week and a half...

Oh and I'm heading out to the lake for a couple of days in the sun before summer's done, the internet can be spotty there and I'm always busy anyways so if I'm not quite as active that's why.


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## Alaura123

I have less than a WEEK left -_-, so its good to get some summer trips in. I sware, the amount of summer vacation is getting lower these days, hopefully it doesn't turn into no summer at all. ( I think they do this in china, or japan...)


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## MattsBettas

Alaura123 said:


> I have less than a WEEK left -_-, so its good to get some summer trips in. I sware, the amount of summer vacation is getting lower these days, hopefully it doesn't turn into no summer at all. ( I think they do this in china, or japan...)


Less than a week? Wow. That thought makes me sad. I go back a week from Tuesday and I have locker selection and registration before that... I'm so not ready. 

---------

So, I'm out at the lake so no updates on the fish, but there are a couple exciting things! 

So, if you follow Logisticguy's journal you would have already heard this, but Canada is having a real IBC show! It's going to be next May in Ontario, which is way across the county, so unfortunately I won't be able to attend but I could send fish... If I REALLY have my stuff in order I could get two or even three generations bred by then, which would actually give me a good shot of getting something of decent quality. This just makes me so excited, I mean it's far away (both in location and time) but this is a big step. I really need to buy my membership... Being meaning to do that for a while but I've had reasons not to. 

The other thing is that within the next week I'll have everything set up and pretty much how I want it tank-wise. Everyone will be out of jars, tanks will be rearranged... That kind of thing. It's been a while since I've done anything more than water changes and feeding, so I'm happy to be doing this. 

I'm also finally writing out a disease and treatment guide... Hopefully it won't take too long but there is a lot of research involved so it could. 

As long as I'm not too much more sick I'll get a proper update up tomorrow, possibly with pictures...


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## Tress

O.O in Ontario?! Urgh my luck it will be in Toronto so wont be able to go anyways...

I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for your guide


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## MattsBettas

It's in Burlington, which is around Toronto I believe. Everything's in or around Toronto!


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## Tress

Yea I looked it up. That's a 9 hour drive for me and I absolutely hate cities. Went to Toronto once, never again. Oh well, I'll just have to wait till they spread north or something lol. Thanks for letting me know!


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## MattsBettas

Haha Tress, if I was that close I think I would steal a car to get there. I'm way more bummed than I should be about living across the country and not being able to go. I can, however, bust my butt to get fish that I can send to the show. 

---------

Ok, so a few kinda big changes are going on right now, in preparation for the school year, when I won't have as much time or energy. 

The other day I completely redid my rack, I took everything off, cleaned it, moved a shelf, moved some tanks, and put everything back on... Took a while and made my back a tad sore, but it was well worth it- I now have room for another ten gallon tank and will likely end up with one soon. That way I can spawn and not have to make an immediate decision about the ricefish! My rack just looks so much more organized and neat now. Sorting out and labeling the cords helps too. I do have a "before" picture, I'm just waiting until it's pretty much completely done to do the "after" picture.

I'm also working on dividing two ten gallon tanks. I got one done (minus the mesh) today, the other will have to wait until tomorrow when I can clean it up and remove all of the hard water deposits. I was so happy after I found a big tube of silicone at my LFS, they were charging 16$ (umm... No.) for a one or two ounce tube at the first place I looked a couple of days ago, and I got three ounces for six. Didn't expect it to be that cheap lol. Now all I need is the mesh for the divider, Michael's didn't have it in stock last time I looked but apparently got some in yesterday or today. I'm so close to having everyone out of jars!

Anyways, I went to a funeral today, for my great aunt. I wasn't really close to her which makes things much easier of course. It was a nice service, and while I'm not religious I could appreciate that it was in a beautiful church.

That's the reason I wasn't too active today, and also the reason I missed my guppy giving birth. She either only had one baby or ate all but one (she couldn't have had too many, she's fairly small), but yea... I now have a black moscow fry! I find it a really peaceful and beautiful thought that another life, albeit small, came into the world while we were mourning the loss of someone.

Here's some pics! 

Guppy fry


Orange girl


Houdini Jr (His face looks awful here, just look at his fins!)


Now, let's go through the list I made earlier on of things I have to get done before school starts... 



> My summer fish tasks are:
> 
> -Cleaning out and re-lighting the ocellata 20g
> 
> -Moving the Endler's in the 20g and breeding trap to the pygmy cory 10g
> 
> -Getting rid of the [insert adjective of choice] BGA in the ricefish tank
> 
> -Begin selling off scarlet endler colony (they're getting listed tomorrow for sure, finally!)
> 
> -Reculture cultures
> 
> -General fishroom cleanup


BGA is all but taken care of, scarlets are listed and all I can do is wait, cultures are recultured (banana worms rebounded, by the way), and general cleanup is almost done, and definitely will be fairly soon with me getting my rack all sorted out. I'm no longer moving the endlers to the ten now that Houdini Jr occupies it, and the ocellata re-lighting can wait until _after_ my birthday, when I'll hopefully have a little bit of extra cash. I should clean the tank though... That's really all I have to do. I'm good, fish-wise. I'm far from ready (mostly mentally, and to an extent because I have stuff to get done) to go back in six days, though.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yay for guppy birth, I agree it's nice to think about that. That's what softened the blow a little bit when Rembrandt went but Osiris and Silhouette had their eggs  Strange to think about it though.

It's possible that she's still pregnant and will pop out a few more fry today if she's still looking gravid, it is also possible she ate them if she's looking fat too. My SS pair only had those two babies, the female and the male, I still have the female but the male was that one big DeT I had that jumped >.< he was so nice looking too! Such a shame. But yes, as I'm sure you know, the younger they are the less babies they have and they can accept up to I think it was 3 packages of sperm from the males so she could have more babies in a month from now if you write down the date you can track the time. 

Wow, Houdini Jr. has already grown a bunch since his last pictures! He's looking really nice!!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Yay for guppy birth, I agree it's nice to think about that. That's what softened the blow a little bit when Rembrandt went but Osiris and Silhouette had their eggs  Strange to think about it though.
> 
> It's possible that she's still pregnant and will pop out a few more fry today if she's still looking gravid, it is also possible she ate them if she's looking fat too. My SS pair only had those two babies, the female and the male, I still have the female but the male was that one big DeT I had that jumped >.< he was so nice looking too! Such a shame. But yes, as I'm sure you know, the younger they are the less babies they have and they can accept up to I think it was 3 packages of sperm from the males so she could have more babies in a month from now if you write down the date you can track the time.
> 
> Wow, Houdini Jr. has already grown a bunch since his last pictures! He's looking really nice!!


I don't think she's still pregnant, she's pretty skinny. 

Thank you! 

---------

I swore I would never get another long fin... Or petstore fish... But OMG. My self control was seriously tested today, I had ten bucks in my pocket and STILL didn't leave with him. He's a white dragonscale with an orange body and light blue marbling... Could even be a breeding prospect. To be honest it if anyone tries to enable me they won't have a hard time. 

I am trying to convince my brother that a tank would go well with his room... Lol. 





Oh and if anyone's just tuning in now there's a bigger update on the last page near the bottom.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Haha the temptation got too the best of you eh, Matt? He's defeniatley a beauty! I would understand why you couldn't not get him


----------



## MattsBettas

Oh, no I didn't end up getting him. I was just REALLY tempted. I came so close lol... I just don't really have the room... Unless I somehow make some ;-).

I feel like I'll look back at hose pictures and regret it...


----------



## logisticsguy

He is very nice Matt. You should get him. 

Enabler


----------



## BlueInkFish

MattsBettas said:


> Oh, no I didn't end up getting him. I was just REALLY tempted. I came so close lol... I just don't really have the room... Unless I somehow make some ;-).
> 
> I feel like I'll look back at hose pictures and regret it...


Hehe you will regret it!  I thought you bought him lol, shame! Shame! Matt 
 why didn't you buy him lol, I'm just kidding.


----------



## MattsBettas

I just don't really have room . I'll have the room after I sell a few fish... But still. I mean, really though, finding a temporary solution is easy enough... I just think that it was probably a good decision since he doesn't really fit into any breeding plans and I NEED to be putting my effort and space towards the lines I want to develop for the next show (which I think right now is this blue pineapple line that I need to further develop, a platinum white line from CJ's spawn, and possibly either the continuation of my blue marble line, an orange line, or a new line that I bring in from a different breeder). 

Speaking of which... I'm super excited about this show next May and really hope I can get some fish to it that are nicer than what I have now. Better start working.


----------



## BlueInkFish

I'm very excited for you Matt! I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do  May the betta fish be with you! Haha!


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you . All I can really do for now is wait for Houdini Jr to grow up a bit, then I can start this whole plan off by hopefully breeding him to that blue pineapple girl that you love so much. 

I have my alarm set for 6:00am tomorrow for registration... So sad . That also means that tonight can't be a 3:30 am listening to mucic kind of night either... Ahh well.


----------



## beautiful Betta

He was a beautiful fish, but I doubt a fish looking like that would even still be there by now. I expect he would have been snatched up pretty quick. Was a nice find though.


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha you would be surprised... People here would usually go for the cheap, colorful veiltail over the ten dollar halfmoon. Plus I hid him away in he back... Lol.


----------



## BlueInkFish

I'll defeniatley stalk that spawn Matt! I do love that girl!!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha thanks. If all goes according to plan, Houdini Jr will be the dad-


(Might be hard to tell, but look how much he's grown in not very long at all!)

He'll definitely get a proper photoshoot before he goes in the spawn tank, just in case his fins get ripped up and don't heal perfectly. 

And this girl will be the mom-



Registration's all done... It was a bit exciting and a bit sad. At least I have my timetable and ID (witch includes quite possibly the ugliest picture taken of me on purpose). 

I'll post pictures and a little info about these newly divided tanks soon.


----------



## Alaura123

Oh my gosh, cant wait to watch this spawn, its gonna have some beautiful results :3.


----------



## logisticsguy

That is the giant gene at work Matt. The whole spawn he is from is growing fast except for a couple stragglers. Houdini Jr. should be good size boy as he is 75% giant. He is a very nice match for your beautiful girl and he also carries the EE gene from Saturn. Im excited to see what you get!


----------



## BlueInkFish

Beautiful, just beautiful! Lol, I so want your female betta T^T why can't me have it haha !


----------



## beautiful Betta

MattsBettas said:


> Haha you would be surprised... People here would usually go for the cheap, colorful veiltail over the ten dollar halfmoon. Plus I hid him away in he back... Lol.


Sounds to me like you are really trying hard not to go back and get him. Yet you hid him so no one else would buy him, hmmm, I think you might be hoping to pop back soon.;-)


----------



## Sathori

MattsBettas said:


> Haha you would be surprised... People here would usually go for the cheap, colorful veiltail over the ten dollar halfmoon. Plus I hid him away in he back... Lol.


We had a little boy just like him at work a month or so ago. Very tempting colours. There's always one betta I kick myself for not getting in every shipment xD I always save my favourites to be put out last, like the VT I posted in my journal - he's still in the store because I saved him for last to be put on the shelf (if the shelf is too full, we keep some in the back). And there is a VT with the EE gene, so he has really long pectorals.. He was 2nd last to go out xD

I say go back and get him  There's always room for more fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

Haha well this is the most attention my journal's got in a while. 



Alaura123 said:


> Oh my gosh, cant wait to watch this spawn, its gonna have some beautiful results :3.


Thank you, I'm hoping so! 



logisticsguy said:


> That is the giant gene at work Matt. The whole spawn he is from is growing fast except for a couple stragglers. Houdini Jr. should be good size boy as he is 75% giant. He is a very nice match for your beautiful girl and he also carries the EE gene from Saturn. Im excited to see what you get!


I'm excited to watch him grow, at this rate he should be able to breed no problem by the end of September, if not sooner. He has a whole ten gallon to himself (and a few snails and pygmy cories), so there's none of that growth stunting hormone to slow him down. I can see a bit of that EE geno coming through on one of his pectoral too... With a bit of luck I'll end up with more ee offspring. Wasn't Houdini an ee too? 



litelboyblu said:


> Beautiful, just beautiful! Lol, I so want your female betta T^T why can't me have it haha !


Thank you . If you want her that bad you can have her once I have her babies.. If you come to Canada to pick her up. 



beautiful Betta said:


> Sounds to me like you are really trying hard not to go back and get him. Yet you hid him so no one else would buy him, hmmm, I think you might be hoping to pop back soon.;-)


Shh... I guess I kinda hoped I could go back and get him and that's why I hid him, but to be honest I'm fine with not having him. Need to focus on other things. 



Sathori said:


> We had a little boy just like him at work a month or so ago. Very tempting colours. There's always one betta I kick myself for not getting in every shipment xD I always save my favourites to be put out last, like the VT I posted in my journal - he's still in the store because I saved him for last to be put on the shelf (if the shelf is too full, we keep some in the back). And there is a VT with the EE gene, so he has really long pectorals.. He was 2nd last to go out xD
> 
> I say go back and get him  There's always room for more fish.


Haha I'm sure at some point I'll apply at the petstore a few blocks away from me, and it will be the biggest test of my self control yet. Would probably end up banning myself from the bettas lol. 

---------

Here's the divided tanks. I'm hoping for more of an organized barrack type thing, with enough room for a section to be their permanent home. I'm happy with them, just need he craft store to get the darn mesh in. 

I'll fully stock both of these for now, and move out four or five fish soonish. Then I can use gem to keep the breeding stock from my next spawns. My rule for myself is that only fish I breed myself can go in it, to reduce the risk of introducing any disease.


----------



## BlueInkFish

XD pfft. I would drive there but I don't have the time of day!! 

And I just love your barrack idea!


----------



## MattsBettas

Ahh... Back to school tomorrow. It's all good. 

Fish are all doing well and growing well, nothing really to report. I think I got everything done on my list of fish things to do in the summer except the full clean of he ocellata 20, but I can do that this week. My birthdays in about a week too . 

I'm looking back at my journal from a year ago (around page 90), when my fry were just being born and bred. I can't believe it's been a year *sigh*. Excited to get more spawns.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Wow! Happy early birthday!!! How old are you big boy XD you dot have too tell me  or any of us LOL


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yay September birthday's! Mine is coming up too on the 18th. SO. MANY. BIRTHDAYS. literally, most of my family is in September! yikes.

And yay for going back to school tomorrow, though most of tomorrow I'm working so it won't really feel like going back to school but that's alright ^_^


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks blu! 

Lil, I know! I remember you turning 21 like a week after my birthday last year... Lol. 

---------

First day of school was long and boring but nice at the same time, there's lots of people I know and even a couple of new friends (you know how you're kinda forced to meet some people?). Tomorrow's going to feel long too, and every math class this semester will, but oh well. I already know that I'm going to have to work my butt off to get the mark I want in math :/... At least it's only for one semester.

I also found the craft mesh I need... But they only had six sheets lol. I need at least eight. :dunno:


----------



## MattsBettas

So I'm done my first week... Needless to say it was a bit overwhelming. I've been exhausted and sore and everything, it's going to be a bit of an adjustment. 

Not much in the way of fish. I finally have someone interested in the endlers, they want to trade for plants. Fine by me! 

I'll consider this weekend successful if I can get the nest bought and these tanks divided... Finally. After I get that done a spawn won't be far off.


----------



## MattsBettas

Ok so these are some of the plants the customer wants to trade for the endlers, and I have no clue what they are. They look beautiful, but I feel like I won't be able to accommodate some of these species... 



If anyone could help me identify these that would be great. Also, they aren't my pictures, so please don't take them for use elsewhere.


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## lilnaugrim

Ludwigia Broad Leaf!
Hygrophila Corymbosa looks like
Back is rotala

:-D


----------



## MattsBettas

Thank you!

So, I didn't actually finish the tanks, because a few of the dividers fell off their silicone :roll:. They should be ready tomorrow. 

It also snowed today... ugh.


----------



## lilnaugrim

it snowed? Yikes, winter is coming much too quickly. We actually got down to the 50-54 range last night so I'm really not THAT surprised it snowed up there but I just don't feel like thinking about snow just yet lol. I want Autumn first! Half of our tree's are already changing colors though!! We had a very short summer this year with only two weeks actually hot when normally it's like 2 whole months that are hot.


----------



## MattsBettas

We had a pretty hot summer... It's just ending way too early . At least it's not snowing today lol... Well at least not yet. 

So this guy that wants the endlers wants to get ten, and he wants to trade for plants... Like I just got 20$ for ten a couple months ago, and I'm definitely not getting twenty bucks worth of plants. I felt like when I said I was open to reasonable trades that kinda inherently meant that I should be getting a decent deal... Like this would be ok if he wanted three but ten? Really? 

I mean I'm not ticked off or anything since I did say I was open to trades, I just don't know how to tell him that a few stems isn't really sufficient and ask him for more.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Just say that right there. That the plants he is wanting to trade do not equal the price of the Endlers and either offer more or pay the $20.

Want me to kick him in the rear end for you?? lol!

Oh btw, I believe you said today is your birthday?
Since I apparently suck at trying to figure out how to embed a video, just click the link lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qw-h_yZ1ZQ


----------



## hrutan

MattsBettas said:


> We had a pretty hot summer... It's just ending way too early . At least it's not snowing today lol... Well at least not yet.
> 
> So this guy that wants the endlers wants to get ten, and he wants to trade for plants... Like I just got 20$ for ten a couple months ago, and I'm definitely not getting twenty bucks worth of plants. I felt like when I said I was open to reasonable trades that kinda inherently meant that I should be getting a decent deal... Like this would be ok if he wanted three but ten? Really?
> 
> I mean I'm not ticked off or anything since I did say I was open to trades, I just don't know how to tell him that a few stems isn't really sufficient and ask him for more.


Just tell him you need value for value, and tell him the approximate value that he's offering. It's theoretically possible that he doesn't know how much his plants are worth. If he gets huffy, you know you don't want to deal with him. 

And, if it's your birthday...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
If it's not, well...HAPPY UNBIRTHDAY!!


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## BettaLover1313

Happy birthday (early or belated XD), Matt


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## MattsBettas

Thank you three (had to edit that in... You posted while I typed lol)! It is my birthday... So far it's a hell of a lot better than it was last year, I remember oversleeping, my favorite fish dying (the mother of the blue marble/grizzle spawn... was she ever beautiful, and other stuff going on lol. I've mostly just spent time with friends and stuff, which is exactly how I'd want it to be and it's been good. 

I've had a text drafted since like 8:00am, basically saying that I'm not sure out deal would be fair for me and that we can compromise. Like really he's doing absolutely nothing wrong, I just want a fair deal too.


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## lilnaugrim

Well I'm certainly glad for that! I hope the day continues to be good for you as it should be ^_^


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## Alaura123

Happy birthday!!!! :3


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## Fenghuang

It's almost the next day here, but happy birthday, Matt!


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## logisticsguy

Happy Birthday Matt. Im a little late I know. Im holding off getting plants until the big fish club auction on Oct. 8. Just great deals on everything and I hope to sell some fish thete to buy plants. I just love this auction.


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## Tress

Happy Belated Birthday  
I hope that guy is reasonable to deal with


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## MattsBettas

Thank you al for the birthday wishes . 

CJ, I think the ACE auction is towards the end of October... It's usually on a Sunday. I'm already excited lol, I mean I'm sure I'll spend some cash that I get now at that auction... I spent over eight bucks last time and got a ton of stuff, totally worth it. Plant selection was disappointing and expensive, though. 

The endler buyer has actually worked out better than I expected, I gunk I'm actually getting my money's (fish's?) worst of plants so now we just have to meet up. 

The divided tanks will be filled today... I'm so happy for that. The fish would already be in there but the silicone had to be redone in a couple of places.


----------



## Tress

I'm glad it worked out! How many endlers does that leave you with to sell?
Also, what kind of silicone do you use?


----------



## MattsBettas

That leaves me with probably close to forty... Lol. I have an impressive colony. 

I use marineland aquarium sealant, works well and doesn't look bad either. There are some you can get at the hardware store that are apparently fish safe but to be honest I'm fine with not tanking the risk and just using this.


----------



## Tress

oh wow, that is quite a few xD

Ah, too bad that stuff is so expensive here for the little bit you get. I want fish safe stuff but have to find cheaper alternatives that are still safe - plus my mother glares at me if I spend too much on my fish.


----------



## MattsBettas

I was actually so excited when I found a 3oz tube for six bucks at big als. It's really not that expensive unless you start like building your own tanks or something. 

So I never actually got the tanks done yesterday, I got some really bad news and other people were in the bathroom and stuff so it just didn't work out but that's alright, I can do it today. 

I also had my first race of the season today. Ugh. It was hard but satisfying of course, I mean I didn't do as good as I had hoped but I didn't do badly by any means, so I'm content.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Race? What do you race in? Track? Horses? Lol I'm curious! I did track and field last year and swimming, I'm more of a swim person so that's what I'm sticking too haha!

I want too try water polo out too, I've just hear that it's hard though..


----------



## MattsBettas

I run cross country. I like track (as boring as running around, and around, and around like a hamster is) and swim, but I really like cross country running, I mean when I do it on my own or in training I find it to be very relaxing, satisfying, and fun... And it keeps me in good shape haha.


----------



## Tress

Well I am building a tank and rebuilding a 20g. Plus there is literally 1 pet store in my area, they can afford to jack up the prices (and they do). 

Hope your season doesn't get snowed out  (and don't you dare send the snow east to us in Ontario .-. we're already in the single digits this week).


----------



## MattsBettas

Try ordering it online? 

And to my knowledge there's no such thing as a snowed out cross country season here... Lol. You shouldn't be complaining, it's already frozen here (and you should see Calgary lol).


----------



## BlueInkFish

Wow, I did cross country in my early teens  I just couldn't stand the long distance runs haha  

I hope you get the best out of it  how are all the fish doing ?


----------



## Tress

I already got some silicone from a hardware store, I just haven't had a chance to look it up. 

Oh hush  you posted while I was typing and I had made a quick edit. It's 3'C here and we just dragged all the plants in x.x

But yes, how are your fishies :3 ?

Oh and before I forget, did you hear about the solar flare? We should see some northern lights tonight.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Aww I'm so jealous about the lights! There are rare occasions where we get to see them too but generally we're in too bright of an area anyway :-/ One day! One day I will see the Aurora Borealis!


----------



## BlueInkFish

... Well at least y'all get too see them! In Cali all we see are clouds. Stars. And the moon 
I would love too see them in the future!


----------



## MattsBettas

I'm so due to post an update... It's been too long and I've done quite a bit with the fish. 

This week has just been such a rollercoaster ride... Super happy, exciting, sad, and honestly a bit overwhelming by the end of it. I won't go into detail but there was very good and pretty bad and just a whole lot of stuff that went on. Went to the second funeral (celebration of life, actually) in like three weeks, which was really sad, but there was other really great stuff that went on... It's all good in the end. I have to say that I'm ridiculously thankful for the weekend, though. 

In fish news, I traded those endlers away last Saturday! I actually got so many plants, no idea why I was worried- I definitely got my money's (fish's?) worth! Beautiful and totally healthy, I got Java Fern, loads of Hygrophilia corymbosa (I think it's corymbosa, at least), dwarf water lettuce, a ludwigia species, some sort of super pink rotala, and some other plant. I'm very happy, and all are settling in well except the Java fern, which is melting a tad but not dying or anything. The only one that's melting is the easy one :roll:. 

I also got one of my two divided tanks done, set up, and stocked... So happy about that. It looks remarkably clean and admittedly very utilitarian but it works well and I'm happy with it. I just need a board to place on my shelves, so I can bridge the tank across the two shelves... Then I'll get the other one set up. I also need to run out and get a spawn tank, but that wasn't happening this week. 

I did the big clean of the 20g, finally. Once I took out all the algae it was very empty and not so green, I really lost a lot in there. I think I'll order a Finnex for it eventually, no point replacing two 20$ bulbs every few months when I can get an LED that'll last for years and years for eighty bucks (and work better too). It's just a larger initial investment. 

That leads to my next point... Tomorrow, I'm putting in a fairly large amazon order for a Finnex Planted+ for the ten gallon (the ricefish tank that I cleared of BGA and threw all the new plants into), a heater, a sponge filter, etc. Expensive but I'm excited- I need this stuff! Good use for some of my birthday money :-D. 

I also just have to say that the ricefish are absolutely stunning with the planted tank... I'm definitely not selling them now. The males have he best blue, now... Intense and shimmering and just amazing. I'll try to get some pictures of stuff up soon but I'm not too sure if that'll happen tonight...


----------



## Tress

I know how rollercoasters are, I'm glad it ended well.


----------



## MattsBettas

Not really much to say, just wanted to drop by and let you know that I'm alive (just extremely tired)!. Haven't really had much go on in the fish world, and in all honesty probably won't until I do my next spawn in October which I am super excited for. 

We got the northern lights tonight... Faint, but very nice. I wish I lived out in the country, without all of this light pollution. I have some very fond childhood memories of being out at my grandparents place (significantly north of here and far from any real municipality, so they're so much nicer) and seeing them so vividly with reds and greens and sometimes a couple other colors... It's been a while, I think it has something to do with sunspots or some kind of long cycle thing the sun does or something but I hope they come back soon. 

I need a blue marble or grizzle boy soon. I have a lonely girl that stands out from her siblings significantly and NEEDS to give me babies before she dies... It's actually made me consider the aquabid route, but I don't think I will. 

Someone put grindal worms up on my local forum, but they're in Calgary (three hour car ride) :-(. I really would like to set up both a grindle and a white worm culture... 

Oh, and our big auction date has been announced! It's the last Sunday of October... Excited already!


----------



## Tress

I really do hope you find a male for her, I for one absolutely adore her!

And lucky you getting to see the lights, sadly there are too many tall trees in my backyard to see much of the north sky.


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## MattsBettas

Got quite a bit done today. Mostly just boring cleanup and water change things, but got stuff done nonetheless. I really just want to talk about my ricefish- just when I was about to sell the bunch, I planted the tank, they brightened up significantly, and they're breeding again! I knew they were producing eggs (healthy, happy, well fed females of this species tend to produce eggs on a daily basis, and carry them on their bellies. It's a very neat sight.), but I didn't realize where they were deposited or the fact that some have already hatched into fry. They make the tiniest fry ever, they're like lines with eyes. Anyways, while I was doing a water change I noticed an egg resting (well, attached) on a now exposed leaf... And it was twitching. I also managed to remove one fry. Needless to say I now have a ricefish nursery made of 1$ plastic showboxes, one for eggs and one for fry... Lol. Wish me luck getting something out of these guys!

Here's a picture of a female holding the eggs from Seriously Fish.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I will never get over the weirdness of seeing a fish carrying its eggs around like that. On the other hand, all the rest of the fish in the tank probably see it as a swimming snack bar. 

Your shoe box nursery sounds like me and my killifish. You start collecting eggs and fry and then before you know it, you have a whole production line of tanks going. 

Could you find someone to ship grindal worms to you? I got my starter culture shipped. Just in a plastic container in an express satchel (only because I got fish at the same time) and they were fine. Only culture I had trouble with being posted, was vinegar eels and apart from a small amount of leakage I had enough to get a culture going.


----------



## MattsBettas

It is really weird, but I find it fascinating... So far it's just a species tank so there's no visible predation of the eggs, but I'm sure that would change if I added anything else (and I have been toying with the idea of throwing in a pair of sparkling gouramis once the tank fills in). Didn't you used to keep this species? 

I actually asked if she could get them here, and she said she wouldn't ship but since the big auction down there is on October fifth it's likely that someone from my city will be driving down, and the local forum conveniently has a "free travel" section for instances just like this so we'll see if I can make something work. I would really like a culture of these, especially before I get another spawn.


----------



## lilnaugrim

That is neat!! Yeah Sparkling Gourami fry are probably quite comparable to Rice fish fry too, much smaller than Betta's which is why I had so much trouble realizing what they were the first time around in my little .5 gallon random tank! I seriously thought they were some sort of weird copepod or amphipod and they were already around 3 days old or so since I've now seen newly hatched fry! Quite amazing for sure.

Good luck with the Ricefish spawns!! :-D


----------



## MattsBettas

This hasn't been updated since September... Wow. I have to apologize, I've been super busy- between a full AP courseload, cross country season (which is short but intense, and finished now), taking care of my fish, and doing the things that I want to do when I have time (like going out or sitting down and watching an episode of TV), I just haven't really had time to be posting much or doing anything that's exciting enough to post on here. I'm always active, though, and I check in at least a few times a day, so feel free to PM or post here if you need me for anything at all! My phone will actually buzz if you do either, so a response will be prompt if my phone is on me and I can reply at the moment. 

---------

To be honest not a whole lot has happened since I last updated, no deaths that I know of, no real breeding, haven't bought anything new, etc. I have done a couple of things, though. I asked my dad if he could find me a thin piece of wood to bridge the two sides of my shelf together, and he ended up getting my uncle to cut me a piece and I totally did not mean for anyone to do that much work but basically I now have the ability to keep three ten gallons on the middle row of my shelves. This means I can finally get all my fish into those divided tanks that were supposed to BOTH be up and running by the end of summer, and I can set up a spawn tank. I'm actually seeding a sponge filter right now, in the divided tank (because I can be confident it's clean- every fish in there was born and raised on the same set of shelves). 

Once I condition the pair they'll be introduced. I think they'll need three weeks as both fish are smaller than I want. I'm so excited, I don't know if I'm the only breeder that this happens to but there's something about bettas that makes me crave a spawn... Livebearers and egg scatters are fun and all but domestic splendens present a bit more of a challenge which I really enjoy. That, and there's something about watching them color up. 

I also am seriously considering turning my five gallon that is currently divided into a blue velvet shrimp tank. Someone posted some on the local forum for a great price (25$ for 10), and I've been looking at this species and shrimp in general for over a year. It's a five gallon tank that I won't be using soon enough... So why not? 








Oh, and our big biannual auction is in less than two weeks! I'm actually really excited, it's a long day but tons of fun and super satisfying.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yay shrimp tank! I think you'd really enjoy them, my shrimp don't actually do much but I still like to look for them and watch them when they eat. I'm pretty sure I have two males since I haven't seen any breeding going on lol. But blue velvets are nice! What color substrate in the 5?

I agree on the Splenden's spawning, though I do get lots of joy in watching my Sparklers breed! I don't have much of a hand in the actual spawning but trying to suck up tiny little fry that are super fast to save them from the bigger fish is extremely difficult. I spent half an hour yesterday on my knees trying to get the darned fry out but only got I think 7-8 of them in that span of time and I know there are plenty more. But yeah, I've loved watching them grow up, the older ones are almost three months old and look like small versions of the adults! They're close to being sexually mature I think. They're getting their sparkles in too and more color on the fins. But Splendens would be more fun for this part for the color variants whereas Sparklers are just grey/blue/red, but all the same!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Yay shrimp tank! I think you'd really enjoy them, my shrimp don't actually do much but I still like to look for them and watch them when they eat. I'm pretty sure I have two males since I haven't seen any breeding going on lol. But blue velvets are nice! What color substrate in the 5?
> 
> I agree on the Splenden's spawning, though I do get lots of joy in watching my Sparklers breed! I don't have much of a hand in the actual spawning but trying to suck up tiny little fry that are super fast to save them from the bigger fish is extremely difficult. I spent half an hour yesterday on my knees trying to get the darned fry out but only got I think 7-8 of them in that span of time and I know there are plenty more. But yeah, I've loved watching them grow up, the older ones are almost three months old and look like small versions of the adults! They're close to being sexually mature I think. They're getting their sparkles in too and more color on the fins. But Splendens would be more fun for this part for the color variants whereas Sparklers are just grey/blue/red, but all the same!


Maybe a tank that doesn't do much would be a good thing... Lol. There isn't any substrate in it right now actually, so I have a bit of freedom. What color would you suggest? 

Sparkler fry sound so fun. I would love for mine to breed. 

---------

Not much to report. My sparkling gourami pair are doing well in the ten gallon with the ricefish, they stay hidden a lot but have poked their heads out a couple of times. I just moved them over yesterday so they may still need to adapt a bit and come out of their shells. Like, have you ever had a jumping sparkler? 

I also got an essay back that I was expecting a not-very-good mark on and I got a ninety... Lol. Better to underestimate rather than overestimate, always feels better to see a higher mark than you expected!


----------



## lilnaugrim

For blue velvets you can do anything dark/neutral colored, I wouldn't go with black shiny gravel but a sand or Flourite type substrate would work nicely. From this site either the "Timber Lite" or "River Jack" would be something I'd go for, black and white both show debris/mulm/poop very well but a mixture of a more natural substrate will hide all of that and if you go with the slightly darker side of neutral it will also make the Blues pop more too  That's what I'd do at least ;-)

I'm actually surprised yours aren't breeding after seeing mine hop around like rabbits >.< None of mine have ever jumped, actually nothing from my 29 has ever attempted to jump before :dunno: no clue why since they are so nice and streamlined, perfect for jumping. I do know mine tend to like the group they are in, I do have 2 males to 3 females I found out but the smaller male is very submissive to the females. The only time the one top pair pairs off is during mating, otherwise they more or less hang together and harass Stratus my angel and the Pearl gourami lol. Nothing bad, just an occasional chase to let them know they're in the Sparkler territory, it's rather amusing seeing this little 1 inch gourami go for a 3 inch Pearl and a 4.5 inch Angel XD

But my Sparklers have been outgoing practically since I've had them, the first two weeks they were shy but that's normal. Since then, they swarm my hand for food and are up there begging along Stratus and the Pearl, with the Embers swarming right behind them. You'd think I never fed that tank :roll: lol How much plant cover do you have?

Congrats on the essay! Love when that happens!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> For blue velvets you can do anything dark/neutral colored, I wouldn't go with black shiny gravel but a sand or Flourite type substrate would work nicely. From this site either the "Timber Lite" or "River Jack" would be something I'd go for, black and white both show debris/mulm/poop very well but a mixture of a more natural substrate will hide all of that and if you go with the slightly darker side of neutral it will also make the Blues pop more too  That's what I'd do at least ;-)
> 
> I'm actually surprised yours aren't breeding after seeing mine hop around like rabbits >.< None of mine have ever jumped, actually nothing from my 29 has ever attempted to jump before :dunno: no clue why since they are so nice and streamlined, perfect for jumping. I do know mine tend to like the group they are in, I do have 2 males to 3 females I found out but the smaller male is very submissive to the females. The only time the one top pair pairs off is during mating, otherwise they more or less hang together and harass Stratus my angel and the Pearl gourami lol. Nothing bad, just an occasional chase to let them know they're in the Sparkler territory, it's rather amusing seeing this little 1 inch gourami go for a 3 inch Pearl and a 4.5 inch Angel XD
> 
> But my Sparklers have been outgoing practically since I've had them, the first two weeks they were shy but that's normal. Since then, they swarm my hand for food and are up there begging along Stratus and the Pearl, with the Embers swarming right behind them. You'd think I never fed that tank :roll: lol How much plant cover do you have?
> 
> Congrats on the essay! Love when that happens!


Ok thank you, I actually have some nice fine gravel like that that I could use or I could always go out and buy a bag of something, I mean for a 5g tank it isn't going to cost much. I'm going to trust you with the whole color thing more than myself... Art has never exactly been a strong suit. This is all if I go through with it, not sure I want to buy anything or take up any tank space with my auction just around the corner... 

As for the sparklers I haven't seen them for a couple of days, they're probably just being shy in the plants. I have a ton of plant cover in there, at least 95% of the tank is covered at at least one level and once the hygro grows in it'll be a jungle. Let's hope they don't/haven't jumped! I hope I get babies sometime, it would be great. I'm starting to wonder if my water just isn't too hard for them though, I've been keeping this species since April and am yet to experience anything. I could always try doing things betta style with a full conditioning away from each other and a spawning tank... More work but something to think about now that I have a 4-5g tank open.


----------



## MattsBettas

Aaaand there goes my at least twenty minute long (to type) update. You MIGHT get it in the morning if you're lucky and I'm not still POed.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Oh man, that sucks about the post. I HATE when that happens! >.<

As for the Sparklers, it could be that they just don't enjoy the water. Though if they are bred and from your area, it shouldn't be that much of an issue honestly. I know mine were bred right around the corner practically so I know for sure they enjoy my water, that and all the darned babies I have. Maybe try lowering your pH with peat/leaves? I mean, if you really want babies, I wouldn't see that being much of a hassle in the long run at least.

I know you can condition them like bettas but (clearly) I haven't done that. I did think about it though to keep more babies alive, I could actually put them in a spawn tank and let them go to town in there but I'm happy with the 10 I have right now and wait for the Bettas to grow up once they're spawned. That's the one thing I love about Gourami fry, no separating practically!! YES, lol


----------



## MattsBettas

So, I just put down a ricefish... That's pretty much all that's REALLY new. I'll get around to posting that update sometime soon. 

The ricefish that I euthed had been wasting for about a week, or at least that’s how long ago I noticed it. He was super skinny and refusing food, and today he went into labored breathing and it was obvious that he wasn't going to improve. Still don't know the cause but I think it was a strain of columnaris or at the very least columnaris took hold as the secondary infection that really knocked him out, he was just wasting until yesterday when there was a bit of the characteristic fuzz, then today it was on him in multiple locations. I don't feel the least bit bad for euthing him, he wasn't going to make it and I only hope I got him out before he shed too much of whatever pathogen he had into the tank. I'll have to monitor things closely now... Going to pick up some Garlic Guard because part of me suspects internal parasites, and will be watching very closely for any sign of wasting... 

It's also worth noting a couple of things I did new this time (when I euthanized him)- I wore a glove, and now my hands smell normal, and I timed it (because clove oil has been said to take too long)- the fish was out (conscious movement stopped) in thirty seconds, and (IIRC, if not I'm close) in a minute and a half after that the fish was dead.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Hopefully it's not internal parasites! Well...hope it's not really columnaris either.

That's not that long IMO. When I use my ice method, they usually freeze up within 10-20 seconds depending on the size of the fish (though that's true for most styles of euthanization of course) and then dead within the minute I find. But after they go into the ice water, I put them in the freezer too to make sure the water remains cold and just to be sure all around. After 5-10 minutes I take them back out and drain the water and dispose of the body. So anyway, in total the Clove Oil would technically be shorter since I have a prep time of at least 15 minutes of the cold water being in the freezer, then take the fish, plop into water and replace back in freezer for 5-10 minutes sooooo yeah, my method is a lot longer all around than the clove oil. Sorry, I seem to be repeating myself way too much here >.<


----------



## MattsBettas

I hope not either, lil, but I'm starting to lean heavily towards it. Yesterday one of the ricefish was having long, stringy white poop, and today one of them is having bright red ones. Would you mind giving me a run down on camallanus worms, if you have time? 

I'm not against the freeze shock method, I just much prefer clove oil. I've done the freeze-shock a couple of times and I will only do it again if I can supercool salted water on a -30 deg. C or less day in the winter, otherwise I'm not comfortable with how cool my freezer can get it.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Sure, what do you want to know about them? Everything? Just medicating?


----------



## MattsBettas

Mainly identification and treatment, I read up on them a bit while watching TV so it seems to me that leviamsole (sp) is the way to go... I'm more just concerned about how to get it. 

So yea, mainly identification, but also medicating and what to do with everyone else in the tank (apparently the antiparasitic is plant and filter safe?). Hank you- always appreciated! 

I'll try to get a picture up later tonight, after I write up a poetic analysis :roll:


----------



## lilnaugrim

I prefer Fenbendazole, unlike Levamisole, Fenben kills the eggs of the worms and renders the adults neutral. Levamisole paralyzes adults but doesn't touch the eggs. Here's a link on the differences between the two and a third: http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/anthelminticswork.html

ID'ing the worms, you'll see red thread-like red or pinkish worms protruding from the anus, it may only be one or it could be many. At first you'll see them moving around, eventually they'll recede back into the anus and you can watch this happen too, it's actually pretty gross honestly. Once you start to use medication either LV or FBN, the worms won't move much or at all. Also, you may only see these worms after the fish have been fed as they push out feces, the worms will partially come out as well. In fish with larger colonies of worms, you may see them more often regardless if they are defecating or not.

Treatment for FBN will be 1/3 of a packet (we used Safe-Guard dog dewormer, Pancur is great too) for one cube of frozen bloodworms or any frozen foods. Let the mixture sit for an hour at the minimum to get the food to soak in the meds and then feed the worms, you can let the meds soak in the water as well.

The issue with FBN is that the fish have to be eating for the med to work, it's used orally. LV is good because you just dose the tank and it's soaked through the skin/scales, however the margin for error is much less than with FBN, dosing has to be exact. I'm not too clear on the dosages of LV since I never used it but there are plenty of threads about it. Also there is a difference in Levamisole and Levaminsole Hydrochloride but they are both used for the same thing, just different forms. 

Here's more on LV HCL: http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatment/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

Unfortunately I only know where you buy LV HCL in the US not Canada.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Hey Matt! I have a betta fry question... As usual!

When do you think I can start jarring my little fellows? They are about... Gee. I think 3 months or younger? Lol I keep forgetting! I do not have a lot of these munchkins... Only about 5. I know, it's not much but a small spawn will help me know what I'll be preparing for when I breed again! Ok, so when should I start jarring? 2 of the biggest fry which I think are male. I'm unsure, flare and "play" dominance. They flare only. Not much attacking or nipping is happening!
I'm thinking of getting a new pair as soon as this spawn is done or just simply re breed for more fry ! So being prepared for the future will defeniatley help me! Thanks Matt!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I prefer Fenbendazole, unlike Levamisole, Fenben kills the eggs of the worms and renders the adults neutral. Levamisole paralyzes adults but doesn't touch the eggs. Here's a link on the differences between the two and a third: http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/anthelminticswork.html
> 
> ID'ing the worms, you'll see red thread-like red or pinkish worms protruding from the anus, it may only be one or it could be many. At first you'll see them moving around, eventually they'll recede back into the anus and you can watch this happen too, it's actually pretty gross honestly. Once you start to use medication either LV or FBN, the worms won't move much or at all. Also, you may only see these worms after the fish have been fed as they push out feces, the worms will partially come out as well. In fish with larger colonies of worms, you may see them more often regardless if they are defecating or not.
> 
> Treatment for FBN will be 1/3 of a packet (we used Safe-Guard dog dewormer, Pancur is great too) for one cube of frozen bloodworms or any frozen foods. Let the mixture sit for an hour at the minimum to get the food to soak in the meds and then feed the worms, you can let the meds soak in the water as well.
> 
> The issue with FBN is that the fish have to be eating for the med to work, it's used orally. LV is good because you just dose the tank and it's soaked through the skin/scales, however the margin for error is much less than with FBN, dosing has to be exact. I'm not too clear on the dosages of LV since I never used it but there are plenty of threads about it. Also there is a difference in Levamisole and Levaminsole Hydrochloride but they are both used for the same thing, just different forms.
> 
> Here's more on LV HCL: http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatment/levamisole-hydrochloride-1
> 
> Unfortunately I only know where you buy LV HCL in the US not Canada.


Ok, thank you. I am tempted to use LV HCL because it would kill everything in the tank and if I did it a few times I could get all of them, but if the FBN is all I can find I'll get that. I read the link to the loach site and it seemed great, not sure how in the world I'll find the LV HCL here and I would need that and not the LV base as my water is more basic so apparently LV wouldn't work. Here's a picture of he newest fish with visible symptoms- red thing protruding from the anus and some slight wasting, along with refusal of food. The things on the floor of the ghetto breeder trap (olive container with holes... Yep) are just NLS. 




litelboyblu said:


> Hey Matt! I have a betta fry question... As usual!
> 
> When do you think I can start jarring my little fellows? They are about... Gee. I think 3 months or younger? Lol I keep forgetting! I do not have a lot of these munchkins... Only about 5. I know, it's not much but a small spawn will help me know what I'll be preparing for when I breed again! Ok, so when should I start jarring? 2 of the biggest fry which I think are male. I'm unsure, flare and "play" dominance. They flare only. Not much attacking or nipping is happening!
> I'm thinking of getting a new pair as soon as this spawn is done or just simply re breed for more fry ! So being prepared for the future will defeniatley help me! Thanks Matt!


You can jar them whenever you want once they're a decent size, I jar when they're damaging fins or it's just more convenient. This is one of those "breeder knows best" type situations.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Interesting  it's very great to know different perspectives  ! Thanks!


----------



## logisticsguy

There have been a lot of those worms in Alberta for some reason. Great treatment advice from Lil.

Those C worms wiped out a Petland by my house.


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## lilnaugrim

Okay, that Ricefish doesn't have Camallanus worms, that's something different. The worms would be thread-like, not a large mass, they're like tiny Bloodworms. Here are some pics.





















Your fish could have a rectal prolapse, it looks similar if it's a solid mass. You'd see the individual worms protruding if they were Camallanus/Callamanus.

Yeah, LV is no longer sold so it's going to be EXTREMELY difficult to find that, your best bet would be LV HCL or the FBN.


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## MattsBettas

Lost another ricefish... But the auctions tomorrow. So it's all good.


----------



## logisticsguy

The Edmonton auction should be a good one. There are a few Calgary people heading up. 

The plants will likely be plentiful and amazing. Good luck Matt.


----------



## MattsBettas

I know- Anne Marie (sp?) and a couple other biggies are heading up, hopefully bringing some good stuff with them! One of these days I'll have to head down to a Calgary auction and see (and hopefully not compete with) you. Last time the plants were beautiful but few and far between, don't need a whole lot more plants though. 

I'll try and get a sizeable update up later tonight. Expect the auction to be live-journaled.


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## MattsBettas

At the auction... Just started not too long ago and already have a Fluval spec and a (drumroll) pair of Heterandria formosa!!! 40 foreign e tank and 16 for the pair... I lose so much cash at these things.


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## MattsBettas

Came home with a pair of least killies, Hygrophila polysperma, riccia, a beautiful 24" finnex light, a fluval spec, a java fern on driftwood that came with daphnia (didn't even want the java fern, just the daphnia lol), an ~18g tank. and a HOB breeder trap. Not a bad day!

I have a killer headache, though... I need to lay down before I start dealing with all my stuff.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Nice on the Least Killies! Those are great fish, never had them but did some research on them when I was doing my Killi stuff and of course they come up as the smallest "Killi" lol, so frustrating trying to find out the smallest real killifish when those just kept coming up haha.

And that's really interesting about the java fern on driftwood with daphnia...were the dapnia eggs or was it like all in a bag together? Very strange item lol!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Nice on the Least Killies! Those are great fish, never had them but did some research on them when I was doing my Killi stuff and of course they come up as the smallest "Killi" lol, so frustrating trying to find out the smallest real killifish when those just kept coming up haha.
> 
> And that's really interesting about the java fern on driftwood with daphnia...were the dapnia eggs or was it like all in a bag together? Very strange item lol!


I've actually been wanting least killies for over a year, so I was like "jackpot!" when I saw two bags! I'm quite excited about them... Gonna try to start a good colony. They're so tiny and cute. 

The java fern was so weird... I really wish it was JUST the daphnia but oh well, of course I can find a place for a bit of java fern. It's like a lot of live, swimming daphnia in the bag... I dunno why. It was actually labeled as "Java Fern on Wood" and then "Plus Daphnia Culture" in smaller print. I really like the idea of throwing daphnia in with plants, though. Would love to spread a light population around my tanks along with having a couple dedicated cultures. How are your daphnia? Any tricks?


----------



## kjg1029

>.> now i want more fish and a new tank! lol. sounds like a fun day tho! goodluck with your new fish!


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## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> I've actually been wanting least killies for over a year, so I was like "jackpot!" when I saw two bags! I'm quite excited about them... Gonna try to start a good colony. They're so tiny and cute.
> 
> The java fern was so weird... I really wish it was JUST the daphnia but oh well, of course I can find a place for a bit of java fern. It's like a lot of live, swimming daphnia in the bag... I dunno why. It was actually labeled as "Java Fern on Wood" and then "Plus Daphnia Culture" in smaller print. I really like the idea of throwing daphnia in with plants, though. Would love to spread a light population around my tanks along with having a couple dedicated cultures. How are your daphnia? Any tricks?


Fantastic! Love when deals like that come around and you're just like "SCORE!" lol

Yeah...that is very strange lol. Our daphnia is just kept in 2 gallon tubs, one culture of greenwater in the middle container (no daphnia) and then two cultures on the side of that. Airline tubes going into the two cultures (used to have one in each of the three but the air split valve went kaput, that and the pump wasn't strong enough to push air through all three) at a medium flow (don't want to throw them around too much!) and then they're all bare bottom, I siphon out the debris once a month or so, or at least I'm trying to. It's a new thing after the last batches died from too much debris on the bottom. The population in one container is booming right now and I'm trying hard to get the other container going but it doesn't like daphnia apparently >.> I think I may switch out that bucket for another bucket to dry it since I think maybe some sort of chemical got into it maybe.

But I've never had live plants in there, I really should have a culture going at home too but the problem is I'm running out of space until I get my room cleaned again and get my half-stack amps out and more shelving units in. I'm sure live plants would benefit the daphnia though, the only thing is that the professor told me that Copepods are dangerous to Daphnia, though I had them living side by side in the container and the Daphnia culture just stayed larger than the copepods so the copepods never fully caught up to kill off the daphnia. Whether that's true or not, I haven't seen actual evidence of it and from a quick search it seems copepods only really kill the smaller daphnia occasionally, not seen as a huge threat to daphnia cultures.

That was probably more of an answer than you wanted lol, not sure if I actually answered your question? Anything in specific you wanted to know about them?


----------



## MattsBettas

Sooooooooooo.... It's been a while. 

I don't actually have to much to update to be honest, not a whole lot has happened in the fish part of my world since the auction. We did get snow that I can tell will be here to stay (we went from fall to winter overnight... Just like BAM!). We got five days off which was ***awesome***, I'm back tomorrow but I'm well rested and happy. 

No new fish, though I had another ricefish die. Found him in some dense growth while I was doing a trim, judging by rate of decomp he's been dead since Sunday. Needless to say we are on our second, slightly overdosed round of praziquantel! 

I stopped at our one truly local fish store that I know of to pick some stuff up, and got an Aquaclear 30 (is it just me or was there a design change?), Flourish Excel, and frozen baby brine shrimp. This store (Aquarium Central) is less expensive than everywhere else, and even if it wasn't I'd be more than willing to spend money there as opposed to a chain store that does nothing for their animals. 

Right now I want to setup a 20g, that's what the filter is for (after it cycles in a 10g divided 'barrack'). ASAP I'll start soaking the wood, then it's just a matter of getting the substrate and plants in. And a stand. I need a stand. 

Couple of questions... 

Does anybody have any idea of how to get my least killies eating?! I bought the frozen bbs for them, but they didn't take it. If you guys can't think of anything that works I'll be back hatching brine shrimp... And I don't even have any fry right now. 

And, what would you recommend for substrate in a planted, high-med light (Finnex) 20g tall? Substrates just baffle me, honestly... Any opinion on Seachem Flourish?


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## lilnaugrim

Yeah, Hagen was bought out by Fluval and they tweaked the design a tad, made it more "Fluval"-like. Still works the same though 

Do you have microworms/bananas/walter/vinegar eels? They should eat any of those for the time being. You could then start mixing frozen and live foods to see if they'll take the frozen foods and eventually switch over once they're more comfortable. No guarantee it'll work but figured it's worth a shot :dunno:

You can do any substrate honestly, did you want to do another soil-based NPT?

Flourish is great basic but concentrated liquid fert. It doesn't contain everything plants need but it's the base-line for SeaChem's line of plant care stuff. You can use it on it's own or in conjunction with Excel for a CO2 supplement, or Iron, Potassium, Phosphate, etc., but it's not necessary to use the extras unless you really get into plants. I'm debating getting the those three extras for my red plants but I haven't decided yet lol. But over all, Flourish is much more concentrated than most other liquid ferts and contains most of the macro (I believe it's macro and not micro but I could be wrong) nutrients that the plants need for the basics. In the end, I do recommend!

I do twice weekly doses with my tanks with Flourish. I was doing 1 drop per gallon for my smaller tanks but with a 20, you just use 2ml I think? It should say on the package. Whatever the weekly dosage is, I split in half to use twice a week. Though I've been guestimating with my Flourish dosing lately and just squeezing whatever looks good into the tank lol. Whatever I'm doing is doing just fine since I don't have algae other than Green Spot Algae and that's from having high lighting. But eventually you get to know your plants and what they can handle/what they can't and so you can eyeball it from there, adjusting as you need to.

Whoops, sorry for the longer-than-intended reply!


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah, Hagen was bought out by Fluval and they tweaked the design a tad, made it more "Fluval"-like. Still works the same though
> 
> Do you have microworms/bananas/walter/vinegar eels? They should eat any of those for the time being. You could then start mixing frozen and live foods to see if they'll take the frozen foods and eventually switch over once they're more comfortable. No guarantee it'll work but figured it's worth a shot :dunno:
> 
> You can do any substrate honestly, did you want to do another soil-based NPT?
> 
> Flourish is great basic but concentrated liquid fert. It doesn't contain everything plants need but it's the base-line for SeaChem's line of plant care stuff. You can use it on it's own or in conjunction with Excel for a CO2 supplement, or Iron, Potassium, Phosphate, etc., but it's not necessary to use the extras unless you really get into plants. I'm debating getting the those three extras for my red plants but I haven't decided yet lol. But over all, Flourish is much more concentrated than most other liquid ferts and contains most of the macro (I believe it's macro and not micro but I could be wrong) nutrients that the plants need for the basics. In the end, I do recommend!
> 
> I do twice weekly doses with my tanks with Flourish. I was doing 1 drop per gallon for my smaller tanks but with a 20, you just use 2ml I think? It should say on the package. Whatever the weekly dosage is, I split in half to use twice a week. Though I've been guestimating with my Flourish dosing lately and just squeezing whatever looks good into the tank lol. Whatever I'm doing is doing just fine since I don't have algae other than Green Spot Algae and that's from having high lighting. But eventually you get to know your plants and what they can handle/what they can't and so you can eyeball it from there, adjusting as you need to.
> 
> Whoops, sorry for the longer-than-intended reply!


Thanks lil! Of course I have microworms, I just need to reboot (is that the right term???) the culture. I think I'll put a batch of bbs on just for now... Oh well. 

As for substrate, I'm not doing soil again unless it's on a ten gallon or smaller tank. I just need to have more control and less area to work with if I'm to do soil again, but I think I would be willing to do it again in a five or something. 

I actually meant flourite substrate... Ive been using flourish liquid for like a year and know all about it:-D. Thank you, though! My fault for being confused. So, any opinions on Flourite Substrate?


----------



## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> Thanks lil! Of course I have microworms, I just need to reboot (is that the right term???) the culture. I think I'll put a batch of bbs on just for now... Oh well.
> 
> As for substrate, I'm not doing soil again unless it's on a ten gallon or smaller tank. I just need to have more control and less area to work with if I'm to do soil again, but I think I would be willing to do it again in a five or something.
> 
> I actually meant flourite substrate... Ive been using flourish liquid for like a year and know all about it:-D. Thank you, though! My fault for being confused. So, any opinions on Flourite Substrate?


I figured as much lol, so yeah those worms will be fine for the little Least Killis to eat. And yeah, reboot sounds good lol. I accidentally let mine die out....ugg, it's pretty nasty.

Ooooh okay, I was wondering why you had put SeaChem Flourish but I went along with it haha. I actually don't know much about Flourite, seems to look nice. I do know that all "Plant" substrates are also inert as far as nutrients go but they do contain some minerals but mostly it's made of lava rocks for the plants to root in easier is all. So it comes down to what you want to look at.


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## Mahsfish

Hey Matt glad to hear about your new killies. I've been off a while... Thought I'd also add that those endlers you sold to me are doing good. However I've noticed that they tend to produce more males than females which may he able problem in the long run but I'll probably just sell the extra males.


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## MattsBettas

Hi Brayden, nice to hear from you! It's been a while. I haven't really noticed a huge sex ratio difference, if anything I probably get more females. Glad to hear they're doing well, and at least colorful males are easy enough to sell off. 

I have to apologize for my absence, guys. I've been dealing with not only a couple long weeks and a pretty nasty cold and just like a lot of work in school that leaves me with the desire to do nothing but pass out on my couch while watching tv. I'm doing well and everything, but my courseload is just like... A lot, and writing that paper or doing the readings needs to be priority over the forum as sad as that is. I'm also dealing with these parasites in the ricefish, which is kinda starting to piss me off because I don't have access to the medications I need to treat them (levamisole HCL) so all I can really do is watch them die. I'm down to three out of my original seven and at least one isn't far off. All of that has left me with very little desire to do much to do with fish... It's just so disappointing since I love these fish and the plants that gave them their parasites also allowed them to color up and flourish for a while. I'm hoping things speed up on here around a week before Christmas, as I'll be off. I feel like I'm at a "pause" with my fish, not really going anywhere. This will end soon enough though, I consistently have a period of time like this about once a year.


----------



## Tress

Nice for you to stop by again Matt. So sad about your ricefish :/ it's horrid to feel so helpless especially when it's something stupid like access to medication that is holding you back. I hope things go well for you over christmas break though.


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## lilnaugrim

I second Tress 

I'm wondering if there are any other dewormers that you can use to battle the worms. Have you talked to any vets around to see if they can help out in any way? Most are usually willing to help, though I suppose it doesn't ring true for them all :roll: But worth a shot if you've got a vet near by at least.


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## Wildbetta

Sorry to hear that your life is so hectic right now. I do understand how it feels though.

What kind of worms are you fighting with your ricefish? Also why are you not able to get a hold of the medication you need? Sorry if you have answered these questions earlier on in the journal.

I understand about the lull in the fish. I went through that most of this year and now mine are up and running me to death again. LOL Hope things start going better for you soon.


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## lilnaugrim

Wildbetta said:


> What kind of worms are you fighting with your ricefish? Also why are you not able to get a hold of the medication you need? Sorry if you have answered these questions earlier on in the journal.


I believe it is still Camallanus (Callamanus) worms and Levamisole is not available in Canada unfortunately :-/


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## Wildbetta

Not even from InkMaker? He is in Canada and sells Levamisole. I know a lot of people who buy from him here in the states.

A friend of mine actually recommended Flubenzole (sp?) for camallanus worms. Actually says it is the better medication for them so maybe that would be easier to get a hold of.


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## Fenghuang

So sorry to hear about your troubles, Matt. I also had an outbreak of callamanus worms within my guppy colony. Nasty things, they are. I managed to get levamisole HCL through Aquabid and dosed my tank twice and the worms don't seem to have come back (it's been two months now, I think). Still have most of the leftover solution sitting in my fridge. If I hadn't mixed it all, I would've sent it to you.

EDIT: I also got about three treatments worth of fenbendazole off of Amazon and I used that before I switched to the levamisole. Since I used them in conjunction, I cannot say for sure which one was more effective, but I found that the fenbendazole mixed with food clouded my water a lot and I was not certain if the sicker fish (which ended up succumbing) actually got the dosage they needed because they did not have much of an appetite. But it should be easier to find since it is in some dog and bird wormers.


----------



## lilnaugrim

The issue is that Fenbendazole needs to be eaten, so if your fish don't eat, it's no go. Levamisole can be absorbed through the skin of the fish so it can be added to the water fine and work like that. Levamisole is easier to overdose than Fenben but again, if the fish aren't eating like Matt's weren't from what I remember, it's no good.


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## MattsBettas

First off... Happy Holidays! I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas if you celebrate (I definitely did), and if I'm not on before I hope you all have a great New Years. 

So... It's been nearly a month. Wow. I feel bad, it's not like I don't still love fish or the forum but I have been I'm a bit of a rut that was definitely initiated by the parasites but has led to me being absent and a bit lazy and I don't feel good about that. I've kept maintenance to bare minimum, and despite quarantining the affected tank I'm sad to say that I've lost at least four bettas (including my beautiful breeder boy from CJ), most of the ricefish, a few pygmy cories, and if I'm correct my endler colony has been exposed but as of yet is asymptomatic (I put a few in a smaller tank to cycle it and under the relatively more high stress situation they began to waste and 2/3 died, despite the fact that an endler should be able to handle a cycling tank without issue). My betta ocellata and least killifish are the only that are unaffected so far, knock on wood. I honestly think the next course of action is euthanizing the remaining stock in my worst affected tank, disposing the plants, and nuking the tank, and then playing the waiting game with everybody else, but I could also try alternative treatments like epsom salts and garlic and more concentrated baths in a praziquantel solution. 

My goal for the rest of break (I have until the fifth of January off) is to clean one tank a day, bleaching equipment in between. It's achievable, and will hopefully if nothing make me feel better about the situation. 

I just really want to get back breeding and having things look good and being excited about these fish but I have to get past this first and it's been over two months, so I'm really getting sick of it.


----------



## lilnaugrim

It's good to see you around again Matt! I hope you're feeling better and over that sickness you had earlier? I know you said you thought it was the Flu but I don't remember what it turned out to be.

That sucks about your stock too, I'm really sorry :-/ As always, the worst happens to the best of us :-( I hope things take a turn for the better soon.

And of course Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you as well!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, it was strep throat and I'm better now (finished a 10 day course of amoxicillin on the 23rd). I did end up missing city finals with swim, which was painful since I was ranked fifth in my division and my relay team was ranked second and I/we was/were set to do pretty well in both those events. 

Thanks lil .


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## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> First off... Happy Holidays! I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas if you celebrate (I definitely did), and if I'm not on before I hope you all have a great New Years.
> 
> So... It's been nearly a month. Wow. I feel bad, it's not like I don't still love fish or the forum but I have been I'm a bit of a rut that was definitely initiated by the parasites but has led to me being absent and a bit lazy and I don't feel good about that. I've kept maintenance to bare minimum, and despite quarantining the affected tank I'm sad to say that I've lost at least four bettas (including my beautiful breeder boy from CJ), most of the ricefish, a few pygmy cories, and if I'm correct my endler colony has been exposed but as of yet is asymptomatic (I put a few in a smaller tank to cycle it and under the relatively more high stress situation they began to waste and 2/3 died, despite the fact that an endler should be able to handle a cycling tank without issue). My betta ocellata and least killifish are the only that are unaffected so far, knock on wood. I honestly think the next course of action is euthanizing the remaining stock in my worst affected tank, disposing the plants, and nuking the tank, and then playing the waiting game with everybody else, but I could also try alternative treatments like epsom salts and garlic and more concentrated baths in a praziquantel solution.
> 
> My goal for the rest of break (I have until the fifth of January off) is to clean one tank a day, bleaching equipment in between. It's achievable, and will hopefully if nothing make me feel better about the situation.
> 
> I just really want to get back breeding and having things look good and being excited about these fish but I have to get past this first and it's been over two months, so I'm really getting sick of it.


Well its great to see you again Matt! Im so sad you have been having a hard time with parasites. That sucks and I understand how things like this can take away the enjoyment of fish keeping. Sorry the boy you got from me did not make it too :-( A few fish from that spawn grew into giant size and I am wondering if your boy did too? 

Ive been super sick myself with a virus and my own maintenance has been minimal as well. Wishing you the best in the New Year and hope that things get better after a nuke. The break from the busy schedule will help to rekindle the passion I hope. Your a terrific young man and the forum is better with you here. If there is anything I can do to help out just let me know.


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## lilnaugrim

Aww that's a bummer! Yeah, I remember you saying about that before.

EDIT: Gee, we're all sick huh? Tis the season I guess ^_^


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## Tress

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years Matt  

So sorry about your stock and swimming, I guess we need the low times to make the good times that much sweeter.


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## DaytonBetta

Merry Christmas! Sorry you've had a rough time. Hope the new year brings health and happiness (and more fish!).


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## MattsBettas

Thanks CJ, lil, Tress, and Dayton. 



logisticsguy said:


> Well its great to see you again Matt! Im so sad you have been having a hard time with parasites. That sucks and I understand how things like this can take away the enjoyment of fish keeping. Sorry the boy you got from me did not make it too :-( A few fish from that spawn grew into giant size and I am wondering if your boy did too?
> 
> Ive been super sick myself with a virus and my own maintenance has been minimal as well. Wishing you the best in the New Year and hope that things get better after a nuke. The break from the busy schedule will help to rekindle the passion I hope. Your a terrific young man and the forum is better with you here. If there is anything I can do to help out just let me know.


Thanks CJ! CJ, he was definitely not giant, probably not even half giant even though his growth stopped and he wasted before his death. I really will miss him- he was an absolutely beautiful fish and I'm really sad I won't get to see his babies. Thank you for him. I hope you feel better soon, hard thing about viruses is that they're way more difficult to just cure with meds. Hey, how did those whites turn out? 

---------

I'm thinking that if there is a time to sort of reevaluate and plan where I wanna go, it's now. I honestly would consider going more towards livebearers and then finally ordering some proper breeding stock from Asia during the summer (I should have a job by then) for my bettas, and just kind of cleaning up and organizing until then.


----------



## logisticsguy

Its really hit and miss with the giant gene. Only a small percentage seem grow into giant size. Your boys spawn only produced 3 giant males and one giant female. I was trying to breed the biggest boy with the big sibling girl this week, it was a disaster. The heater never shut off in the spawn tub and when I checked on them they were both near death, the water was over 100f !!! off the scale of the thermometer. They both survived somehow but are still showing signs of major stress. Im so mad at heaters right now.

The whites turned out amazing. They are all at my friends house who I will be dropping a spawn Gilligan x Lil green giant) to this week. I have too many young fish here so she is a big help. While there I will get some pics of them. The best of the bunch will spawned soon I believe so hope to have a couple nice breeding pairs this Spring. This virus is seriously nasty thing. It turned into Pneumonia and even antibiotics are very slow. Im so far behind in the fish department as you know its hard to get things done with no energy. Sorry you were sick and Lil had a round with maybe the same bug it seems. Santa was nice and got me a gift card for the aquarium shop. Im glad your Ocellata is okay.


----------



## MattsBettas

logisticsguy said:


> Its really hit and miss with the giant gene. Only a small percentage seem grow into giant size. Your boys spawn only produced 3 giant males and one giant female. I was trying to breed the biggest boy with the big sibling girl this week, it was a disaster. The heater never shut off in the spawn tub and when I checked on them they were both near death, the water was over 100f !!! off the scale of the thermometer. They both survived somehow but are still showing signs of major stress. Im so mad at heaters right now.
> 
> The whites turned out amazing. They are all at my friends house who I will be dropping a spawn Gilligan x Lil green giant) to this week. I have too many young fish here so she is a big help. While there I will get some pics of them. The best of the bunch will spawned soon I believe so hope to have a couple nice breeding pairs this Spring. This virus is seriously nasty thing. It turned into Pneumonia and even antibiotics are very slow. Im so far behind in the fish department as you know its hard to get things done with no energy. Sorry you were sick and Lil had a round with maybe the same bug it seems. Santa was nice and got me a gift card for the aquarium shop. Im glad your Ocellata is okay.


I've had some pretty scary heater malfunctions too, it's such an awful experience. The bettas are tough and can take the heat, though, mine have always bounced back nicely and I hope yours do too. 

I hope you get better soon, I definitely know how tough it is to get things done when you're sick. If I lived in Calgary I would be happy to help where I could. I got a gift card to the fish store too (and 70 dollars worth in total to Tim Hortons from different people, which will last me a while), if that isn't decent motivation to stay with this hobby I don't know what is. 

I'm glad the whites turned out well, let me know if any pairs become available... I still want one! (After I clean this parasite mess up, of course)

Talking to you all today has been really nice, I've missed doing this...


----------



## Hallyx

Was wondering what happened to you, Matt. Sorry about your difficulties -- personal and piscean. Your physical and emotional recovery is a testament to your character.

A quick question, if I may. You wrote:


MattsBettas said:


> ...I put a few [Endlers] in a smaller tank to cycle it and under the relatively more high stress situation they began to waste and 2/3 died, despite the fact that an endler should be able to handle a cycling tank without issue.


What water conditioner were you using to remove or lock ammonia? In what dose?


----------



## MattsBettas

Hallyx said:


> Was wondering what happened to you, Matt. Sorry about your difficulties -- personal and piscean. Your physical and emotional recovery is a testament to your character.
> 
> A quick question, if I may. You wrote:
> 
> 
> What water conditioner were you using to remove or lock ammonia? In what dose?


Thanks Hal. 

I was trying to use prime at 4drops/gallon (double dose) every 48 hours, but I definitely did slack (with both prime and water changes) especially when I was sick, which was when the second one died. There were no symptoms of ammonia being the issue, and everything points towards the parasites (including clear-white feces and wasting). 

I lost another betta today, but it was a weaker doubletail that has been close to death before from one of my spawns so I'm not surprised. Wasting was the symptom. The other three fish in the tank are showing no sigh a of illness which makes me happy as those are my three favorites.


----------



## MattsBettas

Just got back from Big Als, the second best place for fish in my city but it's ten minutes away as opposed to 25-30 for my absolute favorite, Aquarium Central, depending on traffic. I got a 30$ gift card for Christmas from one of my cousins as I mentioned earlier, so I used that and then it was like seven bucks more or something. Along with their Boxing Week sale (don't think Americans have that... The 26th is kinda like our Black Friday, but most stores just do the whole week now) I saved about ten bucks (everything was at least 20% off). I also got a 10$ off "cash" coupon that I can use of a purchase above fifty bucks, but I'll probably just end up offering it up to someone on my local forum. 

Anyways, I got a small sponge filter, more airline tubing, a glass canopy for a 20g (where most money went to), a nice Iwagumi-type stone, a veggie clip, and another net. 

The stone is for my moms spec downstairs that she wants to look "just like the one at Aquarium Central", which is just black substrate (I'm thinking flourite) with a small rock with a java fern laced onto it- pretty simple and it actually looked great, I was happy to oblige. The sponge filter is for my least killies so I can move the big one into the still yet to be filled divided ten gallon, then I'll put the AC filter that I was going to use onto the 20g. It's not like least killifish need overfiltration anyways. I want plecos in one of my twenties, so that's what the veggie clip is for. I don't think the rest really requires an explanation. 

Good deals on things I would buy anyways are always the best . 

I have a couple questions I want to shoot out there for anyone who cares to answer... What do you think I should I stock the 2g fluval spec with (options are obviously limited, but I'm looking for suggestions other than the typical "a betta"), and in theory, do you think breeding a koi HMPK with one of my blue and yellow girls would be a good mix? Aquarium central may or may not have just brought some in... And I no longer have any male bettas, sooooo...


----------



## lilnaugrim

Ooo Boxing Day! Nope, we don't celebrate it since it's English and we're SOOO opposed to that :roll: lol kidding. But yeah, our Black "Friday" has now become the whole weekend and then we have Cyber "Monday" which has turned into the whole week. Not sure how I feel about it, it's nice and all but it's no longer "novel" I guess, oh well :dunno:

2g stocking options: could do a Dwarf Puffer for a single fish. Or:
Celestial Pearl Danios
Gold Ring Danio
any of the Badis (Dario Dario, Dario Hysginon)
Bumblebee Goby
Peacock Gudgeon might work too

Any tiny Rasboras:
Boraras Maculatus (Dwarf Rasbora)
Boraras Urophthalmoides (Exclamation Point)
Boraras Merah
Boraras Brigittae (Mosquito Rasbora)
Microdevario Kubotai
Celestichthys Erythromicron (Emerald Dwarf Danio)


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## MattsBettas

Thanks lil, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for! Any ideas about the breeding? I know you have a good handle on genetics and it's been so long since I studied them. 

We actually have Black Friday and Cyber Monday here as well, used to be all American but like most things it spread here. It's just not quite as big as American Black Friday or Boxing Day. 

If I did Dario dario, would a pair work? Also, the only hiding spots will be with the stone and the fern (I also realized that I have the perfect one sitting in my most sick tank... How sad is that.)... Is that fine? 

If anyone else wants to reply: 


> I have a couple questions I want to shoot out there for anyone who cares to answer... What do you think I should I stock the 2g fluval spec with (options are obviously limited, but I'm looking for suggestions other than the typical "a betta"), and in theory, do you think breeding a koi HMPK with one of my blue and yellow girls would be a good mix? Aquarium central may or may not have just brought some in... And I no longer have any male bettas, sooooo...


----------



## lilnaugrim

Depends on what kind of Koi they are and how much splotches they have and the colors. In theory, you should get a good mix of koi-ish fry out of a Koi father and a bicolor mother. Or you might get something completely different! I'd really have to see pictures of father and mother to give you a slightly better idea but I think you really would know better than I since you know the mother-to-be's heritage and all ^_^

On the Dario Dario, the best of luck to you finding a female, those are harder to find than a needle in a haystack; heck, they're a dust spec in a haystack >.< If you did find one, then yes, you could theoretically hold a pair


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, I'm not totally sure what type of koi they are (or even if they're males haha), Aquarium Central just listed them under recent arrivals in December so I had to wonder. Honestly at this point I just want fry, even from a "who knows what I'll get" spawn. 

I know how frustratingly hard they are to find... Just wondering because you know, sometimes accidental shipments happen and a couple of stores occasionally bring in some pretty rare stuff. 

A pea puffer could be interesting too, I've always liked those things. Whatever it is has to get mothers approval, though :-|.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Yeah, I hear you! Oh, did you see my Spawn log too? Not sure if you saw it or not just yet ^_^

Yeah, I've always searched for females in every shipment that my stores get in but I haven't seen one yet, just always subdominant males and they are so easy to mistake as females half the time :roll: I think it's something like 20 males per 1 female or something ridiculous like that in their spawning, not a clue why since it doesn't make sense. I think the breeders just hold out on the females honestly, controlling the trade as it were.....

Yeah...I know the pain haha, as you've seen on the 45 gallon journal, it's been....interesting >.< I just want to get the darned thing planted at this point, I don't even care about the fish! Mom likes the fake looking decor though and it's so hard since I'm very much into the natural looking tanks...ugg kills me sometimes.


----------



## DaytonBetta

I've been reading a ton about dwarf puffers (pea puffers) lately because I'm thinking about getting them. The smallest recommended tank size, I've seen is 3 gallon per fish, and most people are saying 5 gallon. They are messy eaters and have a high bioload. They are so super cute though. 

I would probably do a plants and shrimp in a 2 gallon.


----------



## MattsBettas

Thanks guys. Lil, I did see your spawn log, I just haven't gone through it. Will do, though! 

----------

So, I went to Aquarium Central today... And got more fish. Picked up a beautiful koi trad plakat (thought he would be hmpk, but I'm actually fine with trad), and four wild type neocardinia (cherry) shrimp. They were super cheap and I want to see if shrimp will do well with my least killies. To my surprise, the lady also better up two assassin snails (which they were selling for four dollars a piece... Lol) and a guppy fry. I saw one of the assassin snails but didn't speak up... Must have missed the guppy fry though, and I don't know what to do with it. 

I also have decided to start adding a low dose of salt to my betta tanks. CJ has had tons of success with it, and at this point I am so done with dead and sick fish that I'm totally willing to give this a try. 1tsp/2g so a very similar dose to the 1tbsp/5g that CJ has had his successes with. We'll see how it goes, obviously if _anything_ goes slightly wrong that could be caused by the salt I will stop but they're looking good so far. 

I also sanded the H. formosa tank, where the shrimp (and snails, I guess) will go. 

You really should see this koi boy, he's fantastic. I'm going out for coffee right away but I'll try to get some up while I'm back. 

By the way... Yes, I do have the resources to keep the new stock safe and quarantined, no one will be put at risk of getting the parasites. I wouldn't have bought anything if I couldn't handle it.


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## Tress

Can't wait to see your new boy!


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## MattsBettas

Happy New Years, everyone, if I don't get on later tonight. Have fun and please stay safe! 

I'll try to get some pics of the new boy now or tomorrow if I'm rushed to leave.


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## Tress

Happy New Years


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## logisticsguy

Wishing everyone a healthy happy 2015! I think adding the low dose salt will help Matt. It takes about 30 days for the preventive effect to really mature from what I see. The toxicity of free ammonia increases the higher the PH, higher the temperature and lower the salinity. With my PH over 8.0 with 80f temps and zero salinity tapwater the ammonia is positively lethal even though a simple test may indicate relatively low levers of overall ammonia These tests include both , free ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+) together so accuracy is relative imo.

These 2 points Ive found helpful to understand and an interesting read. The heart of the problems we were both having imho.

From http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Ammonia

Add special resins or rocks which soak up the ammonia. These are reusable and relatively cheap. Typical resin product names based on zeolite are Ammo-Chip or Ammo-Carb. 

Ammonia in a freshwater aquarium can be rendered less toxic by adding a small quantity of salt to the water. See Salt article.


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## Hallyx

You have the goods on that one, CJ. But I'm not that impressed with the accuracy of all the information on the AquariumWiki. For instance:

"Some Water conditioners transform free ammonia (NH3) into ammonium (NH4+)." I don't know of any that do it this way. If one did, it would change the pH, perhaps radically. But I have no reports of this -- and, believe me, I've looked.

They erroneously credit Stresscoat with the ability to remove ammonia. API specifically denies this and recommends using AmmoLock in conjunction with Stresscoat.

They are notoriously loose with terminology in the water conditioner section. And they don't differentiate between ammonia lockers and ammonia removers, like Amquel which actually break the nitrogen compounds into their component molecules and ions/cations. I think there are others ways that some "remove" ammonia. I'm still researching.

I'm not impressed with their cycling section either. I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Goodness, CJ, that is a handsome fish in your avatar. One of yours?


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## logisticsguy

Hello Hal. Yes I agree that aquarium wiki is pretty bad with terminology sometimes. Most ammonia calculators fail to include a metric for salinity as well which makes them a little inaccurate. This one does include salinity so its the go to calculator imho. Salinity is not as big a factor as PH or temperature re NH3, but does play a role and is just one of the many reasons I increase the salinity of tap water for my fish.

Free Ammonia Calculator

What stands out is how much more toxic free ammonia is at high PH. Its drastic. My PH here is 8.2 to 8.4 and its clear it doesn't take much NH3 to become lethal and even low level can have a dramatic negative effect on fish immune systems, gill function and mortality rate. Now with betta we have generally small aquariums which can have sudden ammonia spikes quite easily due to small water volumes. This is why I use a mix of Purigen and Matrix in small bags in every aquarium now even small ones like 1 gallon grow out containers. 

Not the best calculator but good background info here.

Ammonia Calculator

Yes that boy in my avatar is one of the few giants Ive managed to produce thus far. I nearly killed him in a spawn tub last week when a heater failed to shut off. Thank you Hal I really like that handsome guy myself.


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## Hallyx

Thanks for those calculators, CJ. My favorite calculator from the NY Koi (club?) is no longer available online --at least not on my computer. <sigh>

Very nice explanations on that petgoldfish site.


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## MattsBettas

So... Not a whole ton to update, but I have enough to write nonetheless.

I think I've decided to euthanize the remaining stock in two of my ten gallon tanks, toss the plants and anything else necessary, and then bleach + alcohol the tanks. I just don't want to deal with this anymore and right now the tank on my night table (40$ easy worth of beautiful plants, and forty dollars with of fish... Just gone. In one tank alone.) is just an ugly, algae filled (probably largely due to the reduced water changes that were a necessity to keep other equipment safe), barely stocked tank where the only thing living besides plants is parasites, three almost dead fish, and Cyanobacteria. The fish in that tank ARE going to die, and at this point while I might be able to squeeze another twenty days out of the most healthy one it's just not worth it. 

The other ten gallon only has three pygmy cories in it left, and those are going fairly quickly. It's one of my favorite tanks... The driftwood is beautiful, and the hornwort does excellently... Gets large and feathery and fills space beautifully. I'll probably break things down as soon as I get disposable gloves (just in case... It's definitely wise to be cautious with wasting diseases). 

Went back to school Monday . I felt ready to get back into things and see all my friends (I got to see a few over the break and saw a bunch at a party early on, but when you see people almost every day usually, you start to miss them), but I honestly was tired and ready to be be at home after half a day. Getting up early is hard... My sleep schedule was typically going to bed around three am and getting up at 1-2pm, so it's a bit of an adjustment. Just a bit more than a week and I go on exam break, though, and then start second semester with some new classes. 

Also... My all time favorite artist (the first eight top played songs on my phone are by her, and about 100 out of well over 700 songs are by her) just announced a new album to be released in the summer... I won't talk for long at risk of sounding a bit crazy, but it just made my day and makes me much more excited than I should be. If I get really lucky it'll be out for when I do two weeks in Florida... New music is always great when you're doing hours of traveling. I'm just ridiculously excited about this. 

Here's some pics of the boy and the dead ricefish try not to look if you think it would bother you (it isn't graphic). 


Meeting the family, taken within seconds of introduction (how cute is this?) 


Got his color back (ricefish next) 


This is immediately after death... Not the bent spine, distinct loss of size and weight, lack of color, and overall unbalanced look


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## Tress

So sorry about your tanks, I hope this means the end of the problems once and for all :/ 

Love the new boy though!


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## lilnaugrim

That sucks, I'm sorry Matt :-/

I do agree, that boy is darling! I love the pictures of the Ocellata's (?) trying to inspect him/eat him haha.


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## MattsBettas

Thanks guys! Lil, the ocellata are just looking at him.... Curious about the new addition. They're actually FAR less aggressive than splendens, he hates them a lot more than they hate him ...

I like that pic because it also gives you a fairly good size comparison of the two different species. The splendens is a fairly average adult size.


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## MattsBettas

So, not much to update fish-wise, at least not good news. Fish have continued to die and I haven't done my big clean up and euthanasia spree yet, and to be honest I knew I wouldn't until the end of January because I'm on exam break and not going to lie studying takes the place of non-essential fish stuff. My last exam (math... Ugh) is tomorrow which gives me until next Monday or Tuesday (the third?) to do all of this. So far the list of things I want to get done is:

- Euthanize remaining stock in two ten gallon tanks
- Throw out plants from aforementioned tanks (honestly think I'll be more upset about the plants... Between the tanks there's easily well over 60$ worth)
- Toss filter media, substrate, anything else I find that's porous
- Remove and dry driftwood... I AM finding a way to salvage the best fitting piece of wood I've ever found. Any ideas on how to sterilize wood? Baking or boiling, etc? 
- Bleach and alcohol tank and equipment. 

I'm hoping that I can get rid of it from these, install some tubing that means no more shared siphon system (I'm thinking lengths of clear hard tube discretely siliconed into the corner, and to remove water a flexible tube can be attached or valve can be turned... A visual representation would definitely be better than my description) and get rid of this at least in those tanks. I think the rest are fine, though I'll have to keep watching my endlers. 

After I clean that up at least one of the tanks is being stocked with wild type livebearers, probably Portholes, Tiger Teddies, or Merry Widows. I want at least one tank with fish that like my water and will breed in it and make me feel like I'm not an absolute disaster. 

Otherwise things have been going really well. Exams have been really tough but oh well, I know I'm not going to fail and at their waiting I'd have to do quite badly to drop my mark below my goal in each subject. I'm excited to get tomorrow's over and done and then go and enjoy some time off with friends and fish and less stress than I've had since 2015 started. It's been so springy and unseasonably warm here that I've been able to go for 10k runs and take my dog for long walks, and honestly that's made me so happy and just generally improved my mood.


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## lilnaugrim

For the driftwood you can scrub all the algae and bio-film off of it and let it bake naturally in the sun for about a month if you're serious about it, turn the wood every few days so the sun can get at all sides of it and the UV rays can at least kill everything on the outside and then I believe you can boil and bake them in the oven as well, I don't know the details on that, you'd have to do some googling to find out but I'm sure it's not hard.

Good luck on your exams!!! I really hope things turn around for you soon!!


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## MattsBettas

Thanks lil! 

Favorite female that I had bred myself and had been planning to breed to the new boy suddenly died today... Like I noticed minutes ago. I'm not even as upset as I should be? I dunno. Kinda just want to put away the tanks and take a break but I _know_ I won't do that.


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## Tress

Seriously? What is with today? That's the 2nd betta I've heard just suddenly being dead today. Two more that went downhill fast and died today as well. Is there something special about today?

Anyways.. I'm sorry for your loss. Was it that pretty yellow/blue female of yours?


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## MattsBettas

Yea, I guess it's one of those days. January always sucks. 

It was one of them... The spawn all looks almost identical so I still have her sister, but she's nowhere near as nice.


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## meganlbetta

Hey Matt! Its been a while but your baby you sold me is still doing great! Still the planted 5am gallon to herself! Looks like her blue grizzle mommy!


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## MattsBettas

Hey, that's awesome and so nice to hear! Do you have any pictures, I'd love to see!


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## MattsBettas

Got a lot done, finally. Over the last few days I euthanized the remaining two ricefish, ripped the tank up, threw out about fifty bucks worth of _really_ nice and _really_ healthy plants, and cleaned it. Still need to sterilize it- I ran out of alcohol and I know bleach will cut it for the parasites but I feel more comfortable doing a proper, complete sterilization and know I have the ability to do it properly. Here's a picture of some absolutely beautiful emmersed growth before I destroyed everything. 


I also moved fish in jars that I honestly forgot I had for a few weeks (I feel so terrible admitting this, but it happens. They were alive and healthy beside being in water so low that one of them would have dried out given another day or two). Tip: DO NOT leave jars somewhere you can not see them. Don't. I'm lucky. There were only a few fish and my fish were in top health before being jarred, so they made it through without even ammonia related issues. As soon as I found them (behind a container of water holding now presumable dead ricefish eggs that I can't keep anyways) I drip acclimated them into a running, fully established divided X5 ten gallon, and they're all doing great now. I feel like I'm going to be judged for this, but I also feel that being honest and transparent is important and honestly when you're breeding and dealing with a lot of fish literally losing a few is easier than it sounds, as I learnt. Here's one of the girls being a clown and plastering herself to the silicone in the corner of the tank:


I think I'm going to use my now empty ten gallon as a spawn tank. I want babies again, it's been a year and a half (!!!) since my last successful spawns. I'm thinking about doing the koi boy with my blue and yellow girl first, and then maybe one of my blue grizzle girls. I might also see if picking up a fish or two from logisticsguy next month is a possibility, if things work out and I end up making a trip. 

Spawning means getting cultures back up and running, conditioning, and setting up a spawn tank, all of which really excites me.


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## lilnaugrim

I'm usually fearful of being judged as well for my fish keeping practices, they don't exactly line up with many other people's beliefs....but it works for me and my fish and I don't usually lose fish for no good reason and I believe, if that everything is working for you then that's just fine 

Lol silly girl, Lucillia and I had gone around venturing and at one of the fish stores we were at, I think it was PetSmart, one of the girls had gotten herself above the waterline of the cup just like that, stuck on the little ledge. Thankfully Luci saw her, I didn't, so she tipped the cup some to get her back in the water. 

Yay!!! Spawning is so exciting! And you were right, it's very addicting! lol Can't wait to see how everything eventually turns out ^_^


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## Hallyx

Are you kidding me? That fish is out of the water, stuck to the glass?!? :shock:

How'd she get up there? How does she get down from there? Does she do that often? I've never heard of such a thing!


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## Olympia

Hmm I saw several females stuck the the sides of their cups at the pet shop as well. I put them back properly but later on they were up there again. Probably from nasty water in their cases. 

Matt, you know The Wet Spot ships to "southern Canada" now? (not sure what that means exactly). They have so many wild bettas and rainbows, as well as adorable licorice gouramis... sigh I wonder if it would be worth it. So many exotic fish finally in reach...


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm usually fearful of being judged as well for my fish keeping practices, they don't exactly line up with many other people's beliefs....but it works for me and my fish and I don't usually lose fish for no good reason and I believe, if that everything is working for you then that's just fine
> 
> Lol silly girl, Lucillia and I had gone around venturing and at one of the fish stores we were at, I think it was PetSmart, one of the girls had gotten herself above the waterline of the cup just like that, stuck on the little ledge. Thankfully Luci saw her, I didn't, so she tipped the cup some to get her back in the water.
> 
> Yay!!! Spawning is so exciting! And you were right, it's very addicting! lol Can't wait to see how everything eventually turns out ^_^


Yes! Honestly I know we've had discussions about is before but once you have some good experience under your belt and a working knowledge of fish and tank health, a little experimentation within reason can be beneficial and work better for you than going by the book. That being said, what I did wasn't a good thing at all no matter how much experience you have... Slip ups happen, though. I'm very excited to spawn. I should get a whole mess of things, and nothing too common either. 



Hallyx said:


> Are you kidding me? That fish is out of the water, stuck to the glass?!? :shock:
> 
> How'd she get up there? How does she get down from there? Does she do that often? I've never heard of such a thing!


I'm assuming she jumped? Being a doubletail she's been having some swim bladder issues, so it might have been related to that... An effort to fix the pressure or escape the water or something. I've only seen her do it once, she probably could have gotten down on her own but I nudged her with a piece of silicone tubing. 



Olympia said:


> Hmm I saw several females stuck the the sides of their cups at the pet shop as well. I put them back properly but later on they were up there again. Probably from nasty water in their cases.
> 
> Matt, you know The Wet Spot ships to "southern Canada" now? (not sure what that means exactly). They have so many wild bettas and rainbows, as well as adorable licorice gouramis... sigh I wonder if it would be worth it. So many exotic fish finally in reach...


I've seen it once before, but not in my own fish. It wasn't nasty water in his case... I haven't tested it but it's cycled, established, and a water change was performed the day before. 

OMG The Wet Spot in Canada... That's actually so exciting, thanks for letting me know! I love their selection and prices too... Can't beat 4$ for a P. gertrudae or 16$ for a B. persephone. I'd honestly love to set up a South Pacific (Sulawesi perhaps?) biotope or biotope-ish tank with rabbit snails and the small rainbows... Ahh. And we all know I'm always down for more wilds too (if just have to get around my rock hard water). Their Dario and Badis selection is great too, and I bet they actually stock females. I could easily go broke with one order, even with their generally very reasonable prices. I went to their site- http://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/index.php/fish and all I can find is "South Canada"- a pretty broad statement. Does that mean they ship to south Ontario but not Edmonton, which is definitely closer to Portland? Who knows. I'll shoot them an email because I'm willing to bet I could get other people interested in a group order and it's just generally good to know if they ship here.


----------



## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> Their Dario and Badis selection is great too, and I bet they actually stock females. I could easily go broke with one order, even with their generally very reasonable prices.


Meh, they NEVER guarantee sexes being accurate so I doubt they'd give up female Darios that easily lol. Even on their adult fish half the time sexes are not guaranteed; they just throw the net in and whatever comes out is what you get. But yes, they're prices are reasonable, I do agree for the most part! It just annoys me to no end that they can't even try to attempt to get different sexes, I've asked on multiple occasions. At least at my PetSmart, while they may not know the differences in sex, I can point them out and the people are grateful to learn! lol


----------



## Olympia

Hmm that's good to know Lil. I'd guess you'd want to order a large group of any fish. 
I really just want to order a ton of things next September.  The stupid government gave me five figures of extra loan money, I always thought it'd be easy but it's hard to be a wise spender with that much in your bank account. :'( I must resist, maybe find a separate job to fund all my hobbies aha.


----------



## logisticsguy

If you do make it this way next month Matt I will have a lot to choose from. I wont be doing any spawns this year and would be happy to give you some good fish. Im taking some to the IBC show and auction in May but you could pick any you like here as it would be great if someone carried on with some of these fish. There is lots of equipment, supplies and plants ect. you could have as well. Many of my fry are leapers and get stuck to the glass and slowly slide down which I find funny as heck to watch.


----------



## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Meh, they NEVER guarantee sexes being accurate so I doubt they'd give up female Darios that easily lol. Even on their adult fish half the time sexes are not guaranteed; they just throw the net in and whatever comes out is what you get. But yes, they're prices are reasonable, I do agree for the most part! It just annoys me to no end that they can't even try to attempt to get different sexes, I've asked on multiple occasions. At least at my PetSmart, while they may not know the differences in sex, I can point them out and the people are grateful to learn! lol


I understand their guarantee of course, but I feel like if I bought a group of six of one of the species and requested (which they say they try their best to honor, but obviously we can't see what goes on) to get females there might be a chance. They have that species from India that was on Seriously Fish's home page- the article was under the name "New Dario Wears Makeup" or something similar. That's the trouble with people who actually know about the fish they're selling- they might want to keep the good ones . 



Olympia said:


> Hmm that's good to know Lil. I'd guess you'd want to order a large group of any fish.
> I really just want to order a ton of things next September.  The stupid government gave me five figures of extra loan money, I always thought it'd be easy but it's hard to be a wise spender with that much in your bank account. :'( I must resist, maybe find a separate job to fund all my hobbies aha.


I emailed them last night asking if Edmonton was included and what a rough estimate might be, and got a generic email this evening just letting my know that they had been getting a lot of emails lately and didn't have time to respond to mine (understandable, it isn't urgent) but would get back to me "bright and early tomorrow morning". Wasn't what I hoped for but I still really appreciated them sending me that as opposed to just sending it late. I'll definitely update on here when they get back- I'm kinda excited about this! Once I get hired a sizable order might be a legit possibility LOL. 



logisticsguy said:


> If you do make it this way next month Matt I will have a lot to choose from. I wont be doing any spawns this year and would be happy to give you some good fish. Im taking some to the IBC show and auction in May but you could pick any you like here as it would be great if someone carried on with some of these fish. There is lots of equipment, supplies and plants ect. you could have as well. Many of my fry are leapers and get stuck to the glass and slowly slide down which I find funny as heck to watch.


I'll definitely talk to you once it gets closer, as soon as I know whether or not I'm going. I'm always excited for a quick visit and update on what's going on in the fishroom. I have a clean, divided tank lined up with room for five fish that I can easily set up so space isn't a problem this time. That's a very kind offer on the supplies, plants, and equipment; and after having to throw out a ton of stuff I might take you up on it. Hope all is well and that your pause isn't permanent.


----------



## Olympia

I may have to live my dreams through you in that case Matt.
Just don't pull an Olimpia with currency and realize last minute that $500US is like $590CAD. That was quite a nasty surprise after I had convinced myself I got a deal ahaha. -_-


----------



## MattsBettas

Olympia said:


> I may have to live my dreams through you in that case Matt.
> Just don't pull an Olimpia with currency and realize last minute that $500US is like $590CAD. That was quite a nasty surprise after I had convinced myself I got a deal ahaha. -_-


Haha, oh I can only imagine. We'll see, maybe the dollar will change a bit by the time I'm putting an order in (since I won't be fully qualified as a swim instructor and therefore won't have a real job until the end of summer, and that's if all goes well). 

You can always move out to Alberta and help me breed ridiculous amounts of obscure but beautiful fish that don't actually have a market and won't sell, while freezing to death. 

---------

So, just a couple short but good (for once!) updates-

I got a clamp light today that actually looks nice, which I'll probably use on a ten gallon somewhere (since it can handle a big bulb). It's a kinda brushed black finish, it's hard to describe but it's something that you can have in a room and not be ashamed to show it to people. I fully realize that this doesn't sound too exciting but if you saw how I was lighting my ricefish tank before I took it down you would understand why it makes me happy. 

I think I've also decided to plant and properly decorate the five gallon I have my least killies and shrimp in. I'm hoping it'll help me get babies from the fish, mostly. They're so hard to find and n demand and more importantly I love them and want more of them. I found a hood for a tank and I always have 6500k CFLs laying around so I'll throw that on there, find some plants that aren't unusable (I think I'm down to a little hornwort and rotala in the 20, the rest was thrown out or in a QT'ed tank), and put in the chunk of driftwood I've been soaking for a while. 

I'm starting to think that the ten gallon that had pygmy cories in it wasn't actually infected, and that snails dying caused an ammonia spike that killed most of the fish. The three remaining cories are only getting fatter, I haven't lost one in a while, and there's no reason this tank should be infected over other ones that are also not showing any symptoms. I decided, instead of ripping it apart and destroying one of my longest established and favorite tanks, that I would leave it for a one month, strict quarantine period. If any more cories die or show symptoms I will destroy the livestock and sterilize the tank, if not I'll move on and restock which is what I would so, so, so rather do. 

I'm also still waiting on a reply for this double stand for the 20g tanks. I feel like I'm not going to get it at this point but I really hope I do. 

Today was also the start of semester two, and my first day back after a two week exam break. It was stressful but exciting, I was really glad to be done some of my classes and starting in some new ones.


----------



## Olympia

MattsBettas said:


> You can always move out to Alberta and help me breed ridiculous amounts of obscure but beautiful fish that don't actually have a market and won't sell, while freezing to death.


Haha I am looking to get some tosakin goldfish, but thought there might be a better market for orandas... then I realized that we're in Canada, where there's like 37 million people total compared to 320 million in the US. There's hardly a market for any specialist hobbies (same problem I've found with my rabbits as well). 
I don't even care anymore I'm just going to raise the animals I like and not worry about markets. More for me.  We like a lot of the same fish too, tiny rainbows, wild type livebearers... hmm..



MattsBettas said:


> Today was also the start of semester two, and my first day back after a two week exam break. It was stressful but exciting, I was really glad to be done some of my classes and starting in some new ones.


How far into high school are you, if I can ask? Enjoy it while you can.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Matt, tell me when your a swim coach, lol I'm on the swim team and getting a fishy instructrnwould be amazing XD If only I lived in Caada!!!!

Olympia take some pictures for me of those oranda your talking about  I have a love for the fancies with wens!!!


----------



## MattsBettas

Olympia said:


> Haha I am looking to get some tosakin goldfish, but thought there might be a better market for orandas... then I realized that we're in Canada, where there's like 37 million people total compared to 320 million in the US. There's hardly a market for any specialist hobbies (same problem I've found with my rabbits as well).
> I don't even care anymore I'm just going to raise the animals I like and not worry about markets. More for me.  We like a lot of the same fish too, tiny rainbows, wild type livebearers... hmm..
> 
> How far into high school are you, if I can ask? Enjoy it while you can.


Haha yea Oly, Canada kinda sucks sometimes. If you want the goldfish, go for them! They're absolutely beautiful, if I remember those are the ones with the huge, spreading caudal, right? I like that attitude of not really worrying about the market, as long as we're being responsible and not breeding more than we can handle there's no issue here... 

I am in high school, grade 10 but with a few 20 level courses right now (Bio 20 AP... Oh my god:shock. I'm trying to enjoy it, honestly I do like it and am figuring so much stuff out about myself, and I try to balance fun with being academically successful and all that kind of stuff... I'm sure you can understand. This wasn't all that long ago for you. 



litelboyblu said:


> Matt, tell me when your a swim coach, lol I'm on the swim team and getting a fishy instructrnwould be amazing XD If only I lived in Caada!!!!
> 
> Olympia take some pictures for me of those oranda your talking about  I have a love for the fancies with wens!!!


Haha, I'm not going to be a coach, just an instructor. The way I'm trained to teach things is actually different than what competitive swimmers learn, which is kind of difficult since I'm used to swimming with competitive technique. 

Speaking of which... I got a callback and got in to do a practicum in March! It'll be busy as hell but I'm absolutely prepared to work to get to what I want.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Congratulations! 

An instructor eh!? Well. We have many things in common dealing with water lol, how are you and your fishy family doing?


----------



## Olympia

Yes, tosakins are goldfish which had two tails, but the tails fused back together to make a giant single tail. I've lost a bit of heart with them, not sure if I can manage them as they are pretty delicate, traditionally they have to be kept in bowls/round tubs with way too frequent water changes.  They can't live in square tanks grr.

-dramatic- Ahhh to be young again! Enjoy high school, I'd give an arm to go back to 9th grade and do it all again. -_- This increase in freedom I have not coped with too well.
Funny how your programs are AP. In Ontario that level is called IB. They wanted me to do it but I never did since it costs money and is pretty much only useful for going to uni abroad.


----------



## MattsBettas

litelboyblu said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> An instructor eh!? Well. We have many things in common dealing with water lol, how are you and your fishy family doing?


Fish are doing well! I'll try to get a nice update with a few pics up later tonight or tomorrow. I've got a little news. 



Olympia said:


> Yes, tosakins are goldfish which had two tails, but the tails fused back together to make a giant single tail. I've lost a bit of heart with them, not sure if I can manage them as they are pretty delicate, traditionally they have to be kept in bowls/round tubs with way too frequent water changes.  They can't live in square tanks grr.
> 
> -dramatic- Ahhh to be young again! Enjoy high school, I'd give an arm to go back to 9th grade and do it all again. -_- This increase in freedom I have not coped with too well.
> Funny how your programs are AP. In Ontario that level is called IB. They wanted me to do it but I never did since it costs money and is pretty much only useful for going to uni abroad.


If anyone can handle challenging goldfish because that's what they want it's definitely you! That being said... I don't even want to imagine how much rounded tanks cost... Unless it's some sort of container pond, which could be very neat too. 

We have AP and IB here. They're pretty similar, just depends what school you're at. AP actually has some pretty nice advantages, for example in English 30 the U of A will take your AP English exam in place of your diploma mark... So if you get a five (out of five) on the AP exam it translates to something like 96%, which is _really_ hard to get on the diploma but not as hard to do on the AP. I don't have any experience with IB but I know AP isn't substantially more expensive. My parents wanted me to do it so they payed for it haha. Oh the things I remember from school shopping (which was a luxury, living close enough to three different public schools that getting to choose was possible). 

By the way, I forgot to tell you... The Wet Spot emailed me back, and they *can* ship here! That was super exciting... We'll see what it brings down the road but I'm not in the place to be doing an order anytime soon for a variety of reasons. Still... A nice (and potentially dangerous) piece of info...


----------



## Olympia

IB had something like that too with the English, I don't really remember... 

Most Japanese goldfish are supposed to be viewed from above so they are rarely kept in aquariums.. I know the traditional bowl for 2-3 breeder tosakin (3+ years old) is only 15 gallons, and has a 2 foot diameter. 3 adult goldfish in 15 gallons, unfiltered, uncycled, imagine.... In Japan they are very strict on daily water changes, and my guess is that it doesn't bother the goldfish too much since it's just something they live with from the beginning. -sigh- It's hectic. Though most western keepers do have larger spaces for them. The breeder here says he keeps young fish in colanders put inside of aquariums as well.

I think my favourite thing about goldfish keeping (and betta to an extent) is the huge history and all these crazy practices breeders have developed over the centuries, there's so much art to it, a proper show goldfish is about 50% genetics 50% grooming for the first years of its life... 

That's exciting about TWS though! Uni has really taken a drain on the fishkeeping as I'm 8 months in one town 4 months in another, don't know if I even want to try and figure something out. My parents have been pretty much failures at fishkeeping though, aha... Please get some licorice gourami in my name though if you do order.


----------



## MattsBettas

Olympia said:


> IB had something like that too with the English, I don't really remember...
> 
> Most Japanese goldfish are supposed to be viewed from above so they are rarely kept in aquariums.. I know the traditional bowl for 2-3 breeder tosakin (3+ years old) is only 15 gallons, and has a 2 foot diameter. 3 adult goldfish in 15 gallons, unfiltered, uncycled, imagine.... In Japan they are very strict on daily water changes, and my guess is that it doesn't bother the goldfish too much since it's just something they live with from the beginning. -sigh- It's hectic. Though most western keepers do have larger spaces for them. The breeder here says he keeps young fish in colanders put inside of aquariums as well.
> 
> I think my favourite thing about goldfish keeping (and betta to an extent) is the huge history and all these crazy practices breeders have developed over the centuries, there's so much art to it, a proper show goldfish is about 50% genetics 50% grooming for the first years of its life...
> 
> That's exciting about TWS though! Uni has really taken a drain on the fishkeeping as I'm 8 months in one town 4 months in another, don't know if I even want to try and figure something out. My parents have been pretty much failures at fishkeeping though, aha... Please get some licorice gourami in my name though if you do order.


The goldfish sound really cool, and strikingly different (but still successful) husbandry practices like that are always interesting to hear about. Sad to hear about school getting in the way... I'm not looking forward to that part of growing up, but with a good university like fifteen minutes away I'll almost definitely stay local and that will make things easier... If I ever have the time to do fishy things. Are your parents at least doing more good than harm? 

I'd get some licorice gouramis for you :lol:. If I did order it would probably be fall or well into 2016 anyway... And I'll have to run it past you, because if there's something on the stock list you like chances are I'd like it too...

Bigish update coming up tonight (lots of pics!), for anyone reading...


----------



## BlueInkFish

Blu is waiting!! Keep me busy by lookig at your pics!


----------



## MattsBettas

Update time! A bit's going on, nothing _too_ exciting but still wanted to throw together a post. So, starting off...

Got to the LFS yesterday for water conditioner and grabbed some AC inserts and black sand my mom wanted for her spec while I was there. They didn't have much interesting in stock, they were looking like they were due for a shipment relatively soon which is good. Grabbed a few pics while I was there. Forgive the gross "fish store blue" backgrounds, awful lighting, and crappy quality. 

Betta selection was super small, those shelves are usually filled. They had some nice red HMPKs but after owning an EliteBetta pair of them the vast majority of red fish pale in comparison. Especially for fourty dollars. 


Anyone know what this tank is? Kinda spec-like but divided three times, and didn't look DIY. 


Freshwater Pipefish are super cool (only 16$!), but definitely something I would kill minutes after walking out the door... 


Someone please help identify this puffer (for my mother). Freshwater and "so adorable". 


And this is the kinda tank I want one day. Love everything about it, and it's absolutely gorgeous in person. 



In other news, I think I've decided to put my name in for a group order from Canadian Aquatics for four calico bristlenose plecos and a bag of MTS, because they (the snails) are cheap and I destroyed the ones I had and want more. I like the plecos because I've been wanting to try my hand at breeding them for a long while and didn't want to go for plain jane albinos or regulars but still wanted their ease of maintenance. And at 25$/4 it's hard to beat. My plan is to grow out the group and hopefully get a pair but if not acquire a long finned albino of the opposite sex. The other two or three plecos would be sold and I'd stand a chance at breaking even. They would arrive on Sunday and would be housed in a ten gallon QT (they're gonna be like an inch and a half, they're still young and small!) until the 20g they'll be grown out in is ready. 

Speaking of 20g tanks... The lady got back to me and I'm going to get the stand this weekend if all goes well. 

My Mum's spec is going to be setup properly and nicely this week, with the sand and a nice stone. I'll tie on a java fern on the stone later and that will be that. Still debating stocking though... Kinda thinking a solo male guppy (and maybe an Amano) at this point, red would look nice and pop. Pics when it's finished. 

I've also (as you will see) added a small sponge filter to my running divided ten gallon, to pick up some beneficial bacteria. In a week or two I'll put it in a 4-5g bowfront and that's where my koi boy will live. I'm also going to throw another aquaclear on that tank, to use for the pleco QT and eventually their tank. After that I'll put yet _another_ aquaclear on to use for the other divided tank which will probably/hopefully be gaining some stock in March (from CJ!). Before the end of March I'm also going to set up a spawn tank, and will try to get some fry on the go in mid April. That's the plan right now. 

Here's some of the fishies

Blue and white hmpk I bred. Breeding candidate. 


Least killies + comparison between adult female neocardinia shrimp and male killi (first) to show why getting decent pics is impossible


Decently healthy (just old) pygmy cory. Ignore the mulm lol, it got stirred up yesterday from adding water.


----------



## Olympia

"Fullpart time help wanted" <- Great sign.

The puffer looks to me like a stressed out Amazonian puffer, a baby one at that...

Licorice gourami are so beautiful, you'd probably have to get an RO filter though.. or use rainwater/snow..


----------



## BlueInkFish

That planted tank is just gorgeous... 

I'm not to sure about that spec-like tank, it looks interesting and would defeniatley help if your a Betta addict 

Btw when you were talkin about "EliteBetta" do you mean the seller? If so how is the sir and his business I've only seen his videos and by the looks of it he breeds beautiful Bettas.


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## lilnaugrim

I agree on the Amazonian Puffer!

And that looks like a Deep Blue tank, I could be wrong but one of our stores had a tank just like that and they sold a lot of Deep Blue stuff.


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## Tress

The tank looks like an Aqua One Trio. http://www.aquaone.co.uk/betta-aquariums.php


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## BlueInkFish

In the UK???? Dang. I would be snatching that thing in less then a second. I wonder if any lfs sell it around me :/


----------



## MattsBettas

Olympia said:


> "Fullpart time help wanted" <- Great sign.
> 
> The puffer looks to me like a stressed out Amazonian puffer, a baby one at that...
> 
> Licorice gourami are so beautiful, you'd probably have to get an RO filter though.. or use rainwater/snow..


Yea, they couldn't handle my tap water as is. GREAT idea for the snow, though, thanks! I've thought of tons of ways to safely collect rainwater... Never even considered snow. Ugh. I do think that's what the puffer is, thank you! 



litelboyblu said:


> That planted tank is just gorgeous...
> 
> I'm not to sure about that spec-like tank, it looks interesting and would defeniatley help if your a Betta addict
> 
> Btw when you were talkin about "EliteBetta" do you mean the seller? If so how is the sir and his business I've only seen his videos and by the looks of it he breeds beautiful Bettas.


Haha is probably use the tank for sw like the store does, if after a little research to know that what they're doing is okay. I can divide my own tanks for function, this one just looks amazing. 

I was talking about the seller. I respect and love his fish but have no respect for him as a breeder. He has what I personally consider quite unethical practices, from culling HUGE amounts of fish unnecessarily to fin cutting (not even for health related reasons), even going so far as to post a video of him feeding a betta to a turtle and it swimming around after half it's body was severed. The only reason I had the fish was because a friend wanted me to try my hand at breeding them, but as much as I love the fish I would not give him my money. 



lilnaugrim said:


> I agree on the Amazonian Puffer!
> 
> And that looks like a Deep Blue tank, I could be wrong but one of our stores had a tank just like that and they sold a lot of Deep Blue stuff.


Thanks lil! I think it's the Aqua One, after a bit of research...



Tress said:


> The tank looks like an Aqua One Trio. http://www.aquaone.co.uk/betta-aquariums.php


Thank you! I'm sure that's it! 

---------- 

Pleco order's a bit unsure... He might not have the room which would suck. Will find out soonish and will update. I'm really hoping I can get them. Like really, really hoping.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Ohh I see. I've seen his youtube videos and by the looks of it he seems like a normal breeder... Not that their is a stereotypical breeder. But anyways, it's very sad that he cuts the fish find!!! Talk about torture... This is very insane... Crazy breeder..


----------



## MattsBettas

Yea, it saddened me to discover that stuff too. It really isn't insane... His method works, and people are willing to overlook a _lot_ of things to get what they want. 

Nothing definitive on the pleco order yet. It should be okay but I'll hopefully hear for sure soon.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Not insane??? Cutting fins is normal? Or is he trying to reach a goal through fin cutting? We can discuss this more tomorrow, I have swim practice at 5 am...


----------



## MattsBettas

I don't think insane is the right word... He treats his entire operation as a pure business which IMO is inappropriate when your dealing with living animals (a business-like approach might be affective, but leaving the wellbeing of the animals you're using for profit completely out of the equation disgusts me), but it is logical. He knows what he's doing, what he's running... He just does it in complete disregard of the animal being a living creature (think: factory farming. Most would consider it unethical but it gets the desired results and people still support it). It produces high quality results... Just unethically. And that's why I don't support him. 

So, while I may be able to see the logic behind what he does, I do not agree with his practices and do not condone them. 

When challenged, his justification for fin cutting was that it made fathering young easier. I'd ask him why he's breeding fish that can't successfully father young without serious and cruel human intervention... 

5am. Ouch!


----------



## BlueInkFish

Oh... I see. My vocabulary just wasn't the right word. He does it as if it were normal and he thinks his methods are correct? Yikes. I really thought he was a respected breeder looking at his YouTube videos... Guess you only know a person when you "meet" them.


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## Olympia

People trim goldfish tails for shows to change the shape, it's not faulted if it looks natural. Same with culling, certain varieties have a 90-99% cull rate since they are so hard to get right. I can see how it makes sense, if you are producing mass amounts of animals it could overflow the market, I don't see that much wrong with mass culling of animals like that. At least it's quick (well not the turtle feeding thing).

Same with arowana, some of them get crooked eyes, so those $10k fish get eye surgery to fix their eyes (forget what it's called exactly).

People do a lot of ouch things for show animals, cutting dog tails and ears, tattooing rabbits, sticking tags on ears. Ugh some people with pigs would give the pigs nose rings so it'd be too painful for them to root in the ground. Animals like turkeys, dairy cows, and French bulldogs can't breed anymore without human assistance. 
Whatever makes our lives easier. We call it progress!

That said I wonder how much a tail clip really hurts. I guess if you don't let it get infected....


----------



## BlueInkFish

I still don't like the idea of clipping and trimming. Isn't the purpose to show fish or whatever animal is to enjoy what you've created? Something that is "natural" and "untouched??" Isn't that one of the purposes of breeding? But I would see why breeders or any show contestants do these things, I understand, they want the animal they were trying to acheive. So why not breed for generations? Does this make any sense?? I'm sorry for any confusions!


----------



## LittleBettaFish

I know a few breeders of German Shepherds (my breed of choice) that produce beautiful show dogs, but whose practices I disagree with very strongly. A lot of what you mention Olympia I don't personally agree with either, but since moving away from fancy bettas, I find I prefer fish in their wild form rather than fish that have been artificially created or shaped by humans. 

I'm surprised you can show a goldfish with a cut tail. I would have thought that this would be considered as hiding potential faults with their form. Like with a betta. Even if it looks natural, should a HM that has been trimmed down to a HMPK be able to compete against actual HMPKs? Is there a limit on how much the caudal can be modified? 

I have seen some of Elitebettas fish online and they are really very nice. Shame that some of his breeding practices may be rather controversial.


----------



## Fenghuang

I love fancy goldfish, but I watched a documentary once and they showed breeding farms in East Asia. The documentary was talking about all the time and effort that is put into breeding them, but all I got from it was that some of those fish have been deformed to the point that they couldn't even reproduce without help from the breeders. The breeder was literally taking the individual egg filled females in their hand and squeeze the eggs out of them. At that point, I feel like they really shouldn't be spawning them.

But yeah, the animal show world in general is kind of a touchy subject and a lot of practices can seem unethical or are sort of a "grey zone."


----------



## Olympia

Hmmm, I'm not really sure. I thought it was interesting too. But if you can't tell it's been cut then how will the judges know the difference? So I guess they just allow it.

Hand breeding is something that is frowned upon by a lot of western breeders though, since if you don't know what you're doing you can damage the fish. It's not that they can't spawn by themselves it's that it's frustrating when they don't want to spawn, especially if you have several fish that need to be bred.

But if you think about that fact that sooooo many tropical aquarium fish are "forced" to spawn by having the goldfish breeding hormone added to their water, a little hand squeeze can pale in comparison to that (well, depending on who you ask I suppose... but for me using hormones to make them breed is pretty nasty).

Like how cattle are mostly done by AI now, aside from the fact that they can't even mount each other anymore, no one wants to sit around and wait for "nature to happen" at its own pace. 
A lot of our agriculture professors get really mad if you use the term factory farming. :lol:

I am extremely aware of how awful every aspect of show type animals is, but I still like them. I guess I'm not a very good person in that sense. >_<


----------



## MattsBettas

Look what just arrived! Incase you can't tell... That's four small calico bristlenose plecos.


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## Tress

Pleco pile! Haha so cute


----------



## Fenghuang

Ahhh. They're adorable! I love plecos. Good luck with yours, Matt!


----------



## Olympia

That was fast.. You get mail on Sundays?


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## MattsBettas

Thanks Tress and Feng! 

Oly, it wasn't through the postal system... It was a big group order on a local forum, so someone actually went to the airport to pick them up... Lol.


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## lilnaugrim

Beautiful!! So I do think that my BN Pleco is a Calico, not a Panama Red as she was sold as. She looks a heck of a lot like your new ones! Love them! :-D


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## MattsBettas

Sorry for not updating, I've been busy! February has honestly gone so well and I just feel so happy all the time, there hasn't really been any drama, my new semester is awesome and so far I'm doing quite well in my new classes. It's been a fast month which is great, and I'm only a month away from going to California for a week which I've been looking forward to for like a year. 

The bristlenose pleco juvies are doing great, and are so fun to watch. Their two week preliminary quarantine is up on Sunday, and since they're from a trusted seller and haven't shown any signs of illness I can comfortably loosen my standards. They make me happy, they're fun to watch (especially in dim light) and are eating very well which I was kind of worried about. They're taking Omega One Veggie Rounds with pleasure (they're my favorite algae wafers, because they actually have kelp and spirulina as their top ingredients and then go into high quality protein as opposed to most algae wafers which start off with fish meal and wheat and then have some veggie matter in there somewhere), and then I'm supplementing with zucchini and as of last night frozen peas, both of which they love. I'm so glad they're taking peas since I always have them on hand and they're easy to prepare, and it gives them the bulk fibre they need. The peas also didn't cloud the water like zucchini did, but to be fair I added carbon after the first zucchini feeding. I want to check out the NLS wafers too sometime. Does anyone know anything else I can feed them? Here's some pics! Sometimes they're more washed out than other times, it doesn't appear to be stress related. From what I've observed lighting is a bigger role (they actually lighten up at night). 

Belly!


Group eating zucchini at night (hence quality)


Hopefully a girl


Group shot looking nice and dark


Two of the fish have this redness on their fin spines (fin spines?), I think it was shipping damage since it has faded and didn't spread or anything (I've been watching). Any other ideas as to what it is?


I have a four day weekend, and I've been feeling pretty motivated so I got a lot of boring fish stuff done and cleaned out the ocellata baby tank too which was such a mess. I'm trying to get things looking better. 

I also bought a stand for two 20g tanks! One of the tanks is totally bare, and the other is holding my ocellata adults so I have to move that one out of my room and onto the stand. I'm going to try to have the empty one set up and cycled for the spring auction which is in the middle of April, so if I buy anything it can go straight into there after quarantine stress free.


----------



## lilnaugrim

Not a clue about the redness on the fin, could be old damage as you suggest. I'm happy because then, that means my Calico is a girl too since she's bigger than yours and I wasn't sure what time they start growing bristles, seems like she'd have them by then if she were a boy. I'm not too fond of the actual bristles so I'm good with a girl hahah!!

I'm glad February has been so good for you!! It's great to see things starting to look up again ^_^


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## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> Not a clue about the redness on the fin, could be old damage as you suggest. I'm happy because then, that means my Calico is a girl too since she's bigger than yours and I wasn't sure what time they start growing bristles, seems like she'd have them by then if she were a boy. I'm not too fond of the actual bristles so I'm good with a girl hahah!!
> 
> I'm glad February has been so good for you!! It's great to see things starting to look up again ^_^


Thanks lil! That's what I was thinking about the fin, just because it was the worst right after transport and it looks like some sort of internal bleeding but I'm glad it hasn't been an issue. Totally agree with the males being ugly, honestly I'd sell them off once the branching gets excessive if I didn't want to try my hand at breeding! In the fourth picture the two on the bottom left are the ones I'm hoping are girls. 

I'm liking the fish right now, I think I kicked the parasites for good (knock on wood). This hobby is just so much enjoyable when the fish are doing well. 

Oh and my mum's taking me to my favorite LFS on Sunday because SHE wants something! Since the Spec 2 is technically hers I gave her some stocking options and she wants a male guppy which will be fine, and Aquarium Central has the best and healthiest. It'll look nice finally having something in there.


----------



## lilnaugrim

MattsBettas said:


> Thanks lil! That's what I was thinking about the fin, just because it was the worst right after transport and it looks like some sort of internal bleeding but I'm glad it hasn't been an issue. Totally agree with the males being ugly, honestly I'd sell them off once the branching gets excessive if I didn't want to try my hand at breeding! In the fourth picture the two on the bottom left are the ones I'm hoping are girls.
> 
> I'm liking the fish right now, I think I kicked the parasites for good (knock on wood). This hobby is just so much enjoyable when the fish are doing well.
> 
> Oh and my mum's taking me to my favorite LFS on Sunday because SHE wants something! Since the Spec 2 is technically hers I gave her some stocking options and she wants a male guppy which will be fine, and Aquarium Central has the best and healthiest. It'll look nice finally having something in there.


Lol, glad I'm not the only one! Idk, I find the bristles intriguing but I wouldn't want to see that all the time. Yeah, in that fourth picture, the one furthest left is definitely a girl, the other bottom one might be a late bloomer male.

I do agree, it's very discouraging when you can't do anything for your fish, or at least, it feels that way. 

Well that's fantastic! I do have to say, the best thing about being able to drive and having my own car is that I can go to fish stores whenever I want. However, that said, it puts a severe dent in my bank account :roll: That part isn't so good....but I find that funny she wants a Guppy versus something else like a Badis or idk, just something else.


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## MattsBettas

Just left from a way-too-short visit with CJ (logisticsguy), and I left with three fish- two males and a female, which I definitely didn't go in looking for but she was too gorgeous to leave. I'm excited, I always love stopping by- his tanks are clean, there's nothing unhealthy in sight, he's an ethical breeder, and best of all his fish are amazing. We always get to have a discussion that is always too short, but it's still a chance to learn more. If you are in Canada, he has my highest recommendation. 

No pics right now becase they're in a cooler and I'm not opening it up- plus they'll be stressed and are in bags which don't exactly make for the most flattering photo op. I'll be home in 3 - 3 1/2 hours, and should be able to post some low quality pictures tonight. The fish are just what I want for breeding stock, and even if they don't get bred they're going to be lookers for sure.


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## lilnaugrim

Can't wait to see them all!!! CJ does have the best fish!! I agree! It's a shame I'm not up there for a visit or you all down here lol


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## BlueInkFish

lilnaugrim said:


> Can't wait to see them all!!! CJ does have the best fish!! I agree! It's a shame I'm not up there for a visit or you all down here lol


I totally agree!!! Visit us down here haha, we need some fish from you too!


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## MattsBettas

Happy to say that they're all home safe, but I unfortunitely don't have pictures yet. Right now they're jarred but it will just be until tomorrow evening, I had a divided tank ready but didn't realize that the heater needs to be turned on and tested :roll:. Honestly less than 24 hours in a 2l jar is so much better than accidentally frying them...


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## logisticsguy

Happy to hear you arrived safely home. That was a great visit Matt it was nice to see you again. 20 minutes flew by way too fast. We could talk fish for hours if we ever had time. I loved that you took that girl! It made my day. :-D


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## MattsBettas

So, they're all in the tanks and I strongly suspect one of the "boys" is a sneaky long-finned female... Argh. Gorgeous fish without a doubt, and of course I'll give it a bit of time as they're still young, but right now I see more of a girl. When CJ and I were picking the fish out in comparison to the rest of the spawn it looked like a young boy, so I have some faith in that... Also no sign of ovaries, which could mean nothing as the fish is young but it isn't a bad sign. The fins scream female... Idk. Hopefully one of the two similar looking fish will turn out to be male.

Pic to come, now that they're in their tank. Two of them are still quite washed out.


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## BlueInkFish

We need pictures to prove that you actually did GO to CJ's place :lol:


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## MattsBettas

Soooo... A week late, but better late than never. March has been crazy and there's still a week to go! Here's my favorite (oops!). I'm fairly confident she's a girl, and I love her. Great form and color, and really reminds me of one of Sherolyn's (aka Basement Bettas) fish. There's some pics showing how metallic she is and then at the end poorer quality but shows her typical color. 

This is the one I'm hoping is a boy, even just in the past week his ventrals have grown so that's promising.., he's still small... 


And here's the blue and yellow pineapple boy, I've been wanting a fish like this for a while. He's going to be big, I think. I love him, and he's already reaching 180 degrees- I'm excited to watch him grow.


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## Fenghuang

The fish are lovely. My favourite is the blue and pineapple boy. I am a total sucker for that colour pattern.


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## logisticsguy

Looks good Matt. They have settled in well. I like the speckled tail on the girl!


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## lilnaugrim

Mmmm that dorsal!! I loooove me some broad dorsals! I think that's my favorite fin on the Betta fish, it's just so lovely! 

I also love the face on that first blue girl!! Love when they give you that look like you shouldn't be messing with them because they're mean, bad fish! lol!!


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## Hallyx

That female ... I love that color (you may have noticed). I love 'wild' spots. And good conformation. And broad dorsals.


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## logisticsguy

Hey Matt. Basement Betta has a female on aquabid. Thought you might be interested.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1427775067


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## MattsBettas

Fenghuang said:


> The fish are lovely. My favourite is the blue and pineapple boy. I am a total sucker for that colour pattern.


Thank you! I love him too, like I said I'm really excited to watch him grow up. I'm a sucker for it too, but I think that's evident by the fact I've been working with it for two years now... 



logisticsguy said:


> Looks good Matt. They have settled in well. I like the speckled tail on the girl!


They have, thanks again for everything! I love the speckles too, the other blue one that I think is a boy has them too. Pairing them together is a real temptation, they both do have great form... We'll see how they mature. Would that be fine with you if I did decide that I wanted to spawn them? I mean, it would be 100% your genetics that I'd be working with so if this isn't where you want to see the line go or something... 



lilnaugrim said:


> Mmmm that dorsal!! I loooove me some broad dorsals! I think that's my favorite fin on the Betta fish, it's just so lovely!
> 
> I also love the face on that first blue girl!! Love when they give you that look like you shouldn't be messing with them because they're mean, bad fish! lol!!


Me too! I mean, even while not being nit-pickey a well formed fish always looks good, but a nice, big dorsal is always the best part IMO. So pleasing to the eye. The mean face is especially funny because she's still small! 



Hallyx said:


> That female ... I love that color (you may have noticed). I love 'wild' spots. And good conformation. And broad dorsals.


Thank you! I second everything you're saying... I guess that's why I got her though. Girls like her are always nice, I'm sure you've seen the products of Sherolyn's metallic line. 



logisticsguy said:


> Hey Matt. Basement Betta has a female on aquabid. Thought you might be interested.
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1427775067


I saw that... She has a few actually. I love those fish, but I'm not sure if now is the time... Especially with no males being offered last time I checked. I'm determined that a BasementBetta fish WILL end up in my room at some point... 

---------

If any of you have being paying attention to relatively recent developments in foods you may have noticed NorthFin Betta Bits getting some high praise. They're a Canadian product, and I saw them at the LFS tonight so I grabbed a pouch and am happy to say that I and the fish love them! They're a good size, the ingredients are great, and most importantly the fish loved them. They even smell like good food. I now have two kinds of NLS, Omega One, and NorthFin... And that's just the dry foods and just for the adults. 

Not much to update. I do think I'm going to contact someone and see if I can get some rare livebearers, particularly Tiger Teddies (Neoheterandria elegans) and Porthole Livebearers (idk the proper name, but she calls them pothole livebearers since we definitely have a lot more of those here... Lol). I've been wanting to do this for a while and I'm ready for them, I love my bettas but I really like a bit of variety- and small, easy, rare fish fit the bill. 

SeriouslyFish has some good pics of the tiger teddies... The pictures and the name should remind you of another species... http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/neoheterandria-elegans/

And the portholes... It's really hard to find reliable pics, these are just so rare. 
http://calfish.ucdavis.edu/files/79755display.jpg
http://www.borstein.info/webpics/Other/Livebearer/Poeciliopsis_gracilis/porthole_f.jpg


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## Fenghuang

Ahhh, I just talked myself out of two Basement Bettas' fish because we honestly do not need any more future breeders or any more fish in general. Now I find myself looking at them again...


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## MattsBettas

Feng... Hahaha honestly I'd never tell someone NOT to get as many of her fish as they responsibly can... Oops... 

That blue and yellow boy made a half decent bubblenest today. Haven't had one of those in the fishroom for a long time. CJ, how old was he again? I think around eight weeks? Pretty impressive IMO...


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## Fenghuang

One actually just got a bid on her. But the other... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1427860023 Not one of her lovely steels, but look how clean the body is! I always wanted a cello fish. And dirt cheap. 


What a good boy. Some bettas never blow bubblenests. Is your blue and yellow boy a half-giant?


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## logisticsguy

MattsBettas said:


> Feng... Hahaha honestly I'd never tell someone NOT to get as many of her fish as they responsibly can... Oops...
> 
> That blue and yellow boy made a half decent bubblenest today. Haven't had one of those in the fishroom for a long time. CJ, how old was he again? I think around eight weeks? Pretty impressive IMO...


He would be 8.5 weeks. I have a brother jarred that made a bubblenest today too. Oh I would be so happy if you bred those two. Might get some really nice fish out of it! But I am biased 



Fenghuang said:


> One actually just got a bid on her. But the other... http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1427860023 Not one of her lovely steels, but look how clean the body is! I always wanted a cello fish. And dirt cheap.
> 
> 
> What a good boy. Some bettas never blow bubblenests. Is your blue and yellow boy a half-giant?


Yes he would be as both grandpas were giants, Houdini (Nonphon) and Zues(ram91)


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## MattsBettas

So, I feel like I owe a quick update... I totally disappeared for a week because I went to California and just didn't have a screen in front of me much. It was a great, relaxing, warm, beautiful spring break. 

All the fish were totally fine, they got a water change and good feeding before I left and didn't seem to mind. 

Literally the evening before I left I noticed WORMS floating around my pleco quarantine tank. No symptoms of anything yet but I am worried... What if I missed a spot during sterilization (that was my old ricefish tank), or what if they brought something in? Needless to say I did a big water change and dosed praziquantel soon after I got home. *This is why we quarantine.* I do have to say that I'll be pissed if these die on me, I want to breed them, they've been doing so well, and they're price just went up hugely.

Tomorrow I'll try and get a nicer update up. I also kinda want to show off "my" plant shelf, it's been doing well recently and lil's been showing off her plants so why not me... Though hers are more impressive. Haha, fun fact I used to be really into growing plants and still kinda am, but the fish have definitely taken over... And aquatic plants have so far not worked out great.


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## BlueInkFish

You came and visited California without even saying hi to me!???!!! Haha, we'll be waiting for the pictures


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## MattsBettas

Yes!! I have to say, I love that state. I've never been up to the northern parts but really want to see San Fran and the Oregon coast, do that drive down. I was in SoCal the whole time and haven't been further north than LA. Where are you? 

And it's like 2:00 and I have a big test tomorrow, nice. I actually tried to sleep though so this isn't all my fault... It just didn't work .


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## lilnaugrim

What kind of worms? Detritus worms? Planaria? Real Camallanus worms? Or something else?

Did you clean out that tank or just let it sit a while? Sorry, it's not that I don't trust that you did that! I just wanted to make sure is all in case something was forgotten, I'd hate for you to lose those beautiful pleco's too!!! :-(


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## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> What kind of worms? Detritus worms? Planaria? Real Camallanus worms? Or something else?
> 
> Did you clean out that tank or just let it sit a while? Sorry, it's not that I don't trust that you did that! I just wanted to make sure is all in case something was forgotten, I'd hate for you to lose those beautiful pleco's too!!! :-(


I have no clue. The tank and all equipment was bleached and alcoholed and rinsed with hot water (like you would do for suspected mycobacteria), I've done it successfully a bunch of times before and am usually pretty good at being thorough. They definitely aren't planaria, they're SMALL and thread-like but they move around so they are worms. I saw them floating around the water column and on the bottom. Luckily the tank is bare bottomed so I can just vac the whole thing and there isn't really any detritus (but I haven't been doing that during this first prazi treatment). The fact that they don't have symptoms yet if definitely good. They also aren't showing any signs of stress from the meds.


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## lilnaugrim

Oh okay, they are likely Detritus worms then. Even if tanks aren't fully established or anything, I've seen them in my tanks if there are some extra foods in there or lots of fish sometimes. They feed on the micro stuff too that we can't see of course  I think your tanks are fine then if you've done all the usual disinfecting stuffs. I wouldn't worry unless you see the Plecos losing weight and showing the normal symptoms of the Camallanus.


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## BlueInkFish

I also do have some weird worm things in my 40g tank... It's filled with sand scattered rocks and algae. So I'm not really sure what they are. They look like detritus worms, though I'm really unsure what they are. 

Haha. I used to live in SoCal. I was forced to move up north of Ca, due to personal problems. I visit SoCal often though, for family or trips with my youth group.  I'll be heading towards there for the IBC Sprkng Show.


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## MattsBettas

I'd be glad if that's all it is, I'm happy with treating them though just because I am especially paranoid with this tank. I literally JUST dropped a running light in, luckily nothing happened. 

----------

I just wanted to ask... Does anyone have any experience or knowledge in regards to Seachem Neutral Regulator? It promises to adjust the pH to neutral by _precipitating_ Calcium and Magnesium, and claims to keep it stable at 7.0 or allow for easier transitions to lower or higher pH. I don't love chemistry. Bio is more my thing. Here's the product page- http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/NeutralRegulator.html

If it does all it claims to do then I could potentially set up tanks with fish I've wanted for a long time without having to spend much or do much. I'd LOVE to make one of my 20g tanks an Amazon biotope with no plants but frogbit and maybe a potted sword, and nice wood and plenty of leaf litter to acidify the water, possibly over a thin layer of playsand (cheap AND natural). I could stock it with tetras, cories, and then a pair of centerpiece fishes... Apistos, perhaps. And they could actually thrive instead of barely survive, while saving me the trouble of RO and real chemical pH lowerers. Since it wouldn't be planted, it wouldn't have a lot of light or nutrients, making the phosphate base of the Neutral Regulator less of a concern algae-wise. 

I'd really love some help with that haha.


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## lilnaugrim

I've seen them around but never really gave them a second look just because I can generally get away with just adding some crushed coral to my tanks...if I ever remember >.< My 29 has been going down the tubes lately and I think my pH is fluctuating again, I keep forgetting to check though since I'm either at school, finishing printmaking, or sleeping to be honest :-/ 

It sounds more reasonable though, I like that they have both up and downs, it sounds better that they have Alkaline and Acid versus simply pH up and pH down which just makes me cringe thinking about chemicals, knowing that they can't hold a steady pH. But considered all the good stuff that SeaChem has been making, I wouldn't put it past them to be able to actually make something that works like it's supposed to. I'd certainly give it a shot in a tank. For my own uses, I'd want something that'd only bring it to 6.5 or about that, not so far from my own water but enough to be stable and still keep my soft water fish happy, y'know?

Ugg, I LOVE the tanks with just a gigantic sword in it with some natural covered gravel, some driftwood sticks and lots of leaf litter, beautiful, beautiful tanks! You will definitely have to keep that one updated so we can see how beautiful it is! :-D


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## MattsBettas

lilnaugrim said:


> I've seen them around but never really gave them a second look just because I can generally get away with just adding some crushed coral to my tanks...if I ever remember >.< My 29 has been going down the tubes lately and I think my pH is fluctuating again, I keep forgetting to check though since I'm either at school, finishing printmaking, or sleeping to be honest :-/
> 
> It sounds more reasonable though, I like that they have both up and downs, it sounds better that they have Alkaline and Acid versus simply pH up and pH down which just makes me cringe thinking about chemicals, knowing that they can't hold a steady pH. But considered all the good stuff that SeaChem has been making, I wouldn't put it past them to be able to actually make something that works like it's supposed to. I'd certainly give it a shot in a tank. For my own uses, I'd want something that'd only bring it to 6.5 or about that, not so far from my own water but enough to be stable and still keep my soft water fish happy, y'know?
> 
> Ugg, I LOVE the tanks with just a gigantic sword in it with some natural covered gravel, some driftwood sticks and lots of leaf litter, beautiful, beautiful tanks! You will definitely have to keep that one updated so we can see how beautiful it is! :-D



That was my thinking, I've always loved and trusted Seachem products so why would is one be any different? Even if I test it and it doesn't work, it's not like any fish will be harmed and it's like ten bucks gone max. 

You're lucky with your water, or at least I think so. Getting the pH down naturally for me isn't as easy as it is for you bringing it up- I have so much buffering here. My B. channoides tank had driftwood and TONS of IAL, the water was nicely stained and the lowest it got was 7.8 (down from 8.2) IIRC. 

I'll go search some tanks in the style I like. Basically, an Amazon biotope.


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## bullseyejoey

I personally have used the seachem regulator, and it worked for me, make sure you don't overdose because the amount to be used is usually "per 10 gallons" or something along those lines...


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## lilnaugrim

Yeah, it says one teaspoon for 10-20 gallons. 

I know, I try not to take my well water for granted, it's hard though when I've grown up with it. But I can certainly appreciate it when I go out to have other water sources, even restaurants around us have really crappy water lol But yeah, it's easier to add versus to take away generally, I agree.


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## MattsBettas

bullseyejoey said:


> I personally have used the seachem regulator, and it worked for me, make sure you don't overdose because the amount to be used is usually "per 10 gallons" or something along those lines...


Mind if I ask what your water parameters are (pH and hardness)? It won't be hard for me to use the correct dosage as it will mainly be for a 20g tank, and it'll be pre-mixed anyways.


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## bullseyejoey

I'm not exactly sure of my hardness, sorry, but I used it when my water had gotten quite low in pH, like 6.0-6.2 and after enough dosing, it worked.


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## LittleBettaFish

I use Neutral Regulator when I do water changes on my goldfish tank as my water is so soft here, if I do a large water change it can crash the pH and wreak havoc on the cycle. I also used to use it when I did large water changes on my betta tanks to stop the pH fluctuating as dramatically. I found it didn't hold it completely stable at 7.0, but over the course of several days between water changes, it did hold it around the 6.8 mark. 

It was the only time I've used anything but crushed coral to buffer my pH/hardness, and the only reason I still use it, is because it doesn't result in wild fluctuations. 

What I do wonder though, is what effect this product will have on the TDS value of your water? I'm definitely not an expert in this area because it is not really an issue I seem to face with Melbourne tap water. However, I've always been of the understanding that most soft water species like/require a low TDS value along with a low pH/hardness value. Therefore, I'm wondering if chemically trying to alter these, is going to cause your TDS value to rise over time, which could eventually cause issues with your stock? 

All I can say, is with the fish I prefer to keep, I'm glad my tap water is to their liking. There aren't too many fish I like that need a high pH/hard water.


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## MattsBettas

LittleBettaFish said:


> I use Neutral Regulator when I do water changes on my goldfish tank as my water is so soft here, if I do a large water change it can crash the pH and wreak havoc on the cycle. I also used to use it when I did large water changes on my betta tanks to stop the pH fluctuating as dramatically. I found it didn't hold it completely stable at 7.0, but over the course of several days between water changes, it did hold it around the 6.8 mark.
> 
> It was the only time I've used anything but crushed coral to buffer my pH/hardness, and the only reason I still use it, is because it doesn't result in wild fluctuations.
> 
> What I do wonder though, is what effect this product will have on the TDS value of your water? I'm definitely not an expert in this area because it is not really an issue I seem to face with Melbourne tap water. However, I've always been of the understanding that most soft water species like/require a low TDS value along with a low pH/hardness value. Therefore, I'm wondering if chemically trying to alter these, is going to cause your TDS value to rise over time, which could eventually cause issues with your stock?
> 
> All I can say, is with the fish I prefer to keep, I'm glad my tap water is to their liking. There aren't too many fish I like that need a high pH/hard water.


Yea, the TDS would be the other concern though if I could lower the pH that would at least make it a bit better. If the Neutral Regulator truly does precipitate the Calcium and Magnesium (two biggest components in my TDS), wouldn't they no longer be in my water? I know Seachem Clarity works by flocculating the tiny particles causing the cloudiness, allowing for them to be mechanically filtered out. I wonder if the mineral precipitation used by Neutral Regulator would be the same sort of idea. But, if it doesn't, adding things would logically only raise TDS.


----------



## Hallyx

Trying to get up to speed on this Neutral Regulator topic. 

Is it a powder? There's another product called _Liquid_ Neutral Regulator with doses measured on capsful instead of teaspoons. 

Acid Regulator also claims to precipitate out Ca and Mg, but does not claim the dechlorinating or ammonia-locking properties of NR. I wonder if that's the only difference.

I know we advise people not to mess with pH chemically (beyond shells and IAL), because we don't know what product is being used or the competence of the person being advised. But a reliable product could change that attitude.


----------



## LittleBettaFish

There's a powder and a liquid.


----------



## Hallyx

Am I correct that adding driftwood, peat, IAL, etc is merely to add tannins (tannic acid) to acidify the water thereby lowering pH. They do nothing to directly effect the hardness, right?


----------



## MattsBettas

Hallyx said:


> Trying to get up to speed on this Neutral Regulator topic.
> 
> Is it a powder? There's another product called _Liquid_ Neutral Regulator with doses measured on capsful instead of teaspoons.
> 
> Acid Regulator also claims to precipitate out Ca and Mg, but does not claim the dechlorinating or ammonia-locking properties of NR. I wonder if that's the only difference.
> 
> I know we advise people not to mess with pH chemically (beyond shells and IAL), because we don't know what product is being used or the competence of the person being advised. But a reliable product could change that attitude.


Thanks Hallyx. The one I'm looking at is the powdered version, I actually didn't know there was a liquid until LBF let us know. I looked into it earlier and acid regulator is apparently NOT phosphate based, and would lower the pH further. I went to the store looking for neutral regulator but they were out of stock, and I was going to get that but decided I should continue to research and decide what I want. I was thinking a similar thought too... if there's an advance in the technology, we should be reconsidering our standard advice. 



> Am I correct that adding driftwood, peat, IAL, etc is merely to add tannins (tannic acid) to acidify the water thereby lowering pH. They do nothing to directly effect the hardness, right?


I do think you're correct. This might also explain why, even if I make my water very dark with tannins, the pH does not change significantly. What I want to do is use the neutral regulator to lower the pH to a decent range, and then allow the tannins in the wood and leaf litter that would be present to further lower it into the ideal range... But I don't know if that's how it would work. After having it drilled into me practically since I began fish keeping I have the tendency to stay away from things like Acid Regulator, but that might be the more appropriate choice.


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## Olympia

I remember reading that peat moss actually locks in minerals such as calcium, though I'm not sure to what extent, which would effect general hardness. Probably not too much.
A large amount of tannins won't lower pH if your carbonates are high though.. I do not think such elements have any effect on carbonates, which means a lot of tannins won't do much unless the kH is lowered.
(Sorry to butt in, just read the last post)


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## Hallyx

Thanks for your verification, Lympi. 

Happy to see you're still around.


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## logisticsguy

Hallyx said:


> Am I correct that adding driftwood, peat, IAL, etc is merely to add tannins (tannic acid) to acidify the water thereby lowering pH. They do nothing to directly effect the hardness, right?


Matt and I operate in really high PH 8.2 8.4 with very hard water. This makes any ammonia in our tanks very toxic as you know Hallyx. Imho this water untreated leads to all kinds of things. Gill damage over the long term which can lead to a long version of hypoxia is common even with terrific general care. Its also hard to keep fins in good shape and has an overall negative effect on the betta immune system. African cichlids love this water here. 

The best way I have found to achieve decent acceptable water here ie lowering ph as well as gh and kh is to mix 70% tap water with 30% Reverse osmosis. Adding the RO water very slowly over a period of days until the desired parameters are reached. I add a little salt, prime and ial to the water as well. I find the chemical ph up down played havoc via swings and didn't work as well.


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## MattsBettas

CJ, what products did you use? Was it pH Down or something like that, or one of the Seachem ones? As far as I know most of them are just straight up acids... The Seachem ones are buffers that claim stability... Which is obviously necessary. 

Also, I think I mentioned a while ago how my ocellata girl was being beat up badly by her mate. After expecting her to be dead when I got home from spring break (and surprised she made it to then), I decided that I have to try SOMETHING. Her symptoms are nonspecific but fairly serious- she doesn't hold herself above the bottom, she has scale and fin damage, some of which was infected by some sort of fungus; her appetite isn't where it should be, and she's lethargic and emaciated. Anyways, I took her out of her 20g and put her in a ~3G QT (I know, guys, that fish is way to big for that size tank... But it's all I had and she isn't eating as much or moving as much which means less waste so I made the executive decision) with a strong dose of methylene blue, salt, and she previously received a strong salt bath. Her appetite has been decent (I'm happy she's eating, period) and her energy level has gone up, so I'm cautiously hopeful. My guess is that she's going to need to be by herself for at least 4-6 weeks just based on the damage she took, but after the fungus has disappeared and fin and scale regrowth has started I'm going to end any chemical (excluding low dose salt) treatment and focus on clean water and getting lots and lots of good food into her. In not long at all hopefully I'll be able to move the plecos into 20g tanks, and then I can use the dedicated 10g QT for the girl. 

Speaking of the plecos, the worms disappeared after the praziquantel and I don't think they were parasitic to begin with. Honestly I was just freaked out because that tank definitely was infected with an internal parasite of some kind. They're all eating well and growing. 

Also, CJ, I think my "girl" might turn out to be a boy . She's so stubborn, she has stubby ventrals and a female shape but if her fins grow much more she's going to look like a full on male. I'll get a pic ASAP, maybe you can help me? Are the ones you still have showing ovaries yet? 

By the way guys I've been super busy and stressed lately so if I haven't replied to any messages, please don't be too upset. I'm not ignoring you. 

Oh, and auction day is Sunday! I'm super excited as always...


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## MattsBettas

At the auction... Already have three air pumps and a grindle worm starter culture, and there's a few fish I REALLY want... Wish me luck...


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## Fenghuang

Oh, that sounds like a lot of fun! Keep us posted.


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## MattsBettas

Just got a nice group of Wild Brazillian Guppies... I'm so pleased. They're absoulutely beautiful, unique, and rare... And I got them for less than half of what my limit was for them. There's one more bag of fish I particularly want, we'll see...


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## logisticsguy

Auction is awesome isn't it! It was drilled into me early not to use ph up or down. This product is different and if anybody can make it work its Seachem. I have not tried this yet Matt but if it does what says it could be terrific for these water conditions.

Im still wondering about a few fry from that spawn lol. It wouldn't surprise me if got the gender wrong that has happened a lot lol Ive got most of them sexed ok now. Can you post a pic of her/him? 

Wild Brazilian's Wow!


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## MattsBettas

Yea, auctions are always great! I'll try to get a pic this week but things are crazy right now. 

Final auction load is three air pumps, a ten gallon tank with lid, seven wild Brazilian guppies, a grindle worm starter culture, and... Best of all... Six Zoogoneticus tequila!!! I've wanted those for easily over a year, and am so pleased to have them. They're a beautiful CARES listed livebearer, and I'm excited to try and breed them- they are in need of captive breeders. I went HIGH on those though... Holy carp. They were over half of what I spent, but they were worth it.


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## Tress

Post pics when you can


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## MattsBettas

Still no pictures, I'm sorry guys. I can assure you that they're all doing very well and I think they're beautiful, but that's me. I got eight (relitively) large and healthy wild guppy fry today, and they are doing well and even eating decals bbs. No signs of aggression or anything from the adults, knock on wood but I think they'll be fine in the tank. 

The Zoogoneticus tequila are, I have to say, quickly becoming favorites. They have much more personality than my guppies, schooling fish, and even (gasp, how dare I on a betta forum) B. splendens. The group was a bit hesitive to eat NLS for the first little bit, but now they're loving it, along with frozen foods and one grindle worm (with way more to come obv) that I removed from the starter culture just for kicks. They FOUGHT over it and ended up splitting the worm in two. I can't wait for one or hopefully two females to grow out, and for breeding to start. Apparantly a reintroduction effort was to be started this year, in a partnership with a Mexican university and captive breeders. As far as I know there aren't many of us so if I am successful I could see myself putting a lot of focus into this species. 

The grindle worms were recultured in coconut coir or whatever and seem to be doing well, I'm really hoping they're successful. 

Also, my severely abused (by her male) B. ocellata has been doing a great job recovering. Her appetite is HUGE, and her fins are starting to recover. All meds, including methylene blue are being removed, and after that's done I will focus on stuffing her full of good food and getting her over the emaciation she had. I'm kinda proud of myself, that fish had a low to non functioning swim bladder and she now holds herself like any healthy fish.


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## MattsBettas

Wow. It's been a long time. I'm not going to write up anything big tonight, just wanted to drop by and let you all know that I didn't just abandon bettafish.com ... Stuff got busy, my schedule got packed, and to be honest, things had to go (temporarily) nearing the end of the school year because ultimately school does come first- and I'm happy to say that it payed off (so far) :-D. 

I'm now on break and plan on being active, or at least a lot more than I have been for the past couple months. Anticipate an extended post soon (tomorrow?)- this was just my checking in to apologize for the sudden absence and let you all know that I'm back and planning on sticking around.

If anyone needs anything from me, wants to catch up, etc... Absolutely, please PM, comment here, or comment on my profile page.


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## logisticsguy

Its really good to see you Matt. Congrats on another school year done. I'm looking forward to an extended post!


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## Hallyx

I'm with CJ. Glad you're well.


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## lilnaugrim

Glad to see you Matt! I'd been wondering about it the last few weeks but I know how busy the end of school can get! Congrats on another school year finished! ;-)


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## BlueInkFish

Congratulations Matt! It's great to "see," you again! We really missed you!


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## Fenghuang

Matt, yay! You're alive!  Glad to see you.


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## MattsBettas

And almost a year later... 

I'm still alive, and still love fish. I know it's been forever since I've been active and I apologize for that. This is not an excuse, it's just been that school has picked up and it is and will always be my priority (well, at least until I'm done), and unfortunately it's taken away from time I can spend here and with my own fish. I haven't gotten any new fish since the spring auction (last April!) and really there isn't any news when it comes to my fish besides the constant downsizing, mainly due to fish dying of old age or a couple of other minor occurrences. I'm now down to two running ten gallon tanks and just a few assorted fish, but I am keeping all of my other tanks and equipment- I'm not done here. 

I'd like to spend more time on here, I really would. I do intend to make a serious effort to, at the very least, keep up with journals and help where and when I can. Hopefully I'll actually accomplish that this time! 

As far as fish-based goals go for the future, I think I now recognize that I need to keep it more manageable for myself. Breeding two pairs at a time was manageable for me- but only because when I was doing it I had fewer commitments. At this point, I think that I would like to focus my efforts on fish that are more suited to the water I have, and that don't need boatloads of attention. We'll see where it goes, but as I said, I'm not done yet. Excited to see what's gone on while I've been gone, I hope to see some familiar faces and some new ones. 

Matt


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## Fenghuang

Matttttt!!! You're back! Hi. :-D


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## lilnaugrim

Welcome back Matt! So good to see you again!!!!!


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## BlueInkFish

Glad to see you're back! Welcome!


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## BettaLover1313

Welcome back, Matt!


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## logisticsguy

Holy cow! Great to see you here Matt.


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## Hallyx

Hi, Matt. Even though we miss you here, I'm glad school has got your full attention.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

Good to see you!


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