# Spastic Movements - Acting Different - What is Ghosty doing?



## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello BettaFish Community!

I'm sure you've seen my other thread introducing myself and Ghosty to the forums! He seemed to be well and happy. Yesterday I added some aqua plants (anubias nana, crypt, moss ball) and he seemed to be happier. 

Now today he has been moving and acting differently. I'm not sure if he is happier or what, but he has been darting around fast and weird. It wasn't really seeming normal to me. Is he possibly seeing his own reflection and freaking out? Which is weird because I've had him for almost a week and he just started doing this.

Just a minute ago as I was writing this post, he stopped moving at the surface and my heart stopped for a second. He seemed to be laying there like he was dead and didn't move when I tapped the glass. Then he snapped out of it and started moving again. (As I'm waiting to upload my video on youtube, he has done this a couple more times. Lays motionless at the top for a bit with his nose in the air. Make me think he is dying or something =( I haven't seen him act like this before!)

Is this kind of swimming normal/healthy or is something going on?

http://youtu.be/THzGiKlNpqo

<3 BettaChic


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## Jodah (Nov 15, 2011)

My g/f's VT does that. Seems to be fairly normal from what I've seen. Though I have noticed if one light in the room is off, but the other (which is closer to his tank) is left on, he seems to spazz a bit more. So I would chalk it up to he is probably seeing his reflection briefly.

My female CT Freyja does this also, but she's just a little spazz anyway. Doesn't matter if I'm near her tank or not.

MY male CT Ankou, not so much, he's pretty chill. Well, until I pull the lid off for feeding anywho.


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

Jodah said:


> My g/f's VT does that. Seems to be fairly normal from what I've seen. Though I have noticed if one light in the room is off, but the other (which is closer to his tank) is left on, he seems to spazz a bit more. So I would chalk it up to he is probably seeing his reflection briefly.
> 
> My female CT Freyja does this also, but she's just a little spazz anyway. Doesn't matter if I'm near her tank or not.
> 
> MY male CT Ankou, not so much, he's pretty chill. Well, until I pull the lid off for feeding anywho.


Jodah,

Thanks for your response! I've been sitting here worried about him, but you made me feel a little better. Another member posted earlier asking how to make it so they can't see their reflection as well, so I think I'll read into that thread.

Also, just a note to anyone else reading, I just added a new mini heater today. The water temp was around 70 and I plugged in the heater around 4PM. It is now 8PM and around 75 so it has risen a little over 1 degree per hour. He shouldn't be going into shock or freaking out from that right? I figured this would be just as slow as a temperature change as if I were to acclimate him with a bag?

Just want to make sure by baby is ok. Thanks again Jodah.

<3 BettaChic


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## HermitGuy101 (Jan 3, 2012)

Seems normal. He's probably just realized that he can't escape the aquarium and is overly exited.  By the way... I subscribed!


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## HermitGuy101 (Jan 3, 2012)

BettaChic said:


> Jodah,
> 
> Thanks for your response! I've been sitting here worried about him, but you made me feel a little better. Another member posted earlier asking how to make it so they can't see their reflection as well, so I think I'll read into that thread.
> 
> ...


Oh, and the temperature may have something to do with it. Just make sure it doesn't accelerate to quickly. :lol:


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

HermitGuy101 said:


> Oh, and the temperature may have something to do with it. Just make sure it doesn't accelerate to quickly. :lol:



HermitGuy101,

Thanks for replying! I'm hoping that he is just excited, but he has had that same tank for a week now lol. I will be sure to keep an eye on the temperature! Thanks for subscribing as well. That was the first video I posted on the account, so people could see how Ghosty was acting. But I may decide to film me introducing Ghosty to 4 ghost shrimp. It may end up a horror clip, as Ghosty is looking pretty....hyper and alert.... lol but I may upload it anyways so people can see what happens lol.

<3 BettaChic


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

The temp isn't too drastic too quickly.. he is a bit.. twitchy.

When you got the plants, did you QT for a week or so to make sure they were safe, and no parasites/snails/etc caught a ride with them? Also, did you soak the driftwood for 12-24 hrs prior to putting it in? 
It may be a chemistry change.. go ahead and test the water with a tester, if not, Petsmart and PetCo usually do it for free (just take some tank water in a baggie to them). Newly set up tank, new plants, etc could of cause a jump in chemistry, as well as the driftwood could cause a fall of the pH.
Did you add in fertilizer?

Did you do a water change when you added in the new plants/wood? I would suggest doing a small 10-25% water change at this point to see if it helps him. But his jerky movements, his mouth opening and closing and the sudden stopping all indicate he isn't liking some sort of chemistry going on in his tank right now. A water change will help lower any of the negatives, so that may be your best route at this point.


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

Both of mine do it when I get near their tanks (seperate, of course). I think they're just excited


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

Myates said:


> The temp isn't too drastic too quickly.. he is a bit.. twitchy.
> 
> When you got the plants, did you QT for a week or so to make sure they were safe, and no parasites/snails/etc caught a ride with them? Also, did you soak the driftwood for 12-24 hrs prior to putting it in?
> It may be a chemistry change.. go ahead and test the water with a tester, if not, Petsmart and PetCo usually do it for free (just take some tank water in a baggie to them). Newly set up tank, new plants, etc could of cause a jump in chemistry, as well as the driftwood could cause a fall of the pH.
> ...



Myates,

Thank you for coming to my rescue once again lol. I feel horrible... I didn't do any of those things!!! I had no idea!! =( I only soaked the wood for a few hours. I did not QT the plants for a week either... I did not add fertilizer, just tied it down to the wood and planted the other in the gravel. I did a water change the day before I added the plants, so I did not do one the day I added them.

I also added 4 ghost shrimp and they are actually getting along fine, unless Ghosty is just not feeling well enough to attack them.

I went to the store and bought a bunch of testing kits. Here are the readings:

KH: 71.6
GH: 107.4
Ammonia: 0.50
pH: 7.0
Temp: 76 F

I appreciate the help. I will do a water change ASAP. He seems to be doing a little bit better today, but still a little slower and not as active as he was before.

<3 BettaChic


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Woah! Watch the ammonia! .25ppm is getting dangerous. But don't feel bad, it's normal in a new tank. My 10 gallon tank's ammonia wouldn't go down for a while. What brand of test kit did you get?


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

fishman12 said:


> Woah! Watch the ammonia! .25ppm is getting dangerous. But don't feel bad, it's normal in a new tank. My 10 gallon tank's ammonia wouldn't go down for a while. What brand of test kit did you get?


I'm using API TEST KIT. Bought the KH/GH, pH, and Ammonia separately. Comes with a bottle of solution and test tubes. The pH only measures from 6.0 to 7.6 though, so I'm not sure how accurate that is, because I think my straight tap water is over 7.6.

Oldfishlady has also been helping me with my tank situation. I asked her if I could do an immediate water change or if I should wait for 24 hours for the water to age? I always age the water, but I was only preparing it the day before I needed to change the water, so I don't have any 24 hour aged water on hand at the moment! Now I know to always keep aged water on me.

I'm just worried that my baby might not make it now... I added 4 ghost shrimp last night, and 2 of them are dead in less than 24 hours!! My betta was not touching them at all, it just looks like they died whole.

I'm waiting to hear back from Oldfishlady, but otherwise any suggestions would be helpful... My fish is no longer swimming around all hyper, but not slow and very nonactive. Either floating at the top of the water, or looking like he is dead at the bottom of the tank!! =(

<3 BettaChic


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

OFL is very knowledgeable in care and treatment, you'll be well taken care of.

Don't worry about the ghost shrimp- as they are usually sold as food rather then pets so the quality may not be all that great.

The Ammonia is .50, not .05, correct? If so, then I would do a small water change to lower it- again, wait on OFL since you have live plants she will know what is best for them. 

I don't think you did anything terrible, and he could be acting normal- but since the tank is new and it's trying to cycle you will have fluctuations in ammonia/nitrate/ites.. so keep an eye on them and do partial water changes when they get higher then safe for the betta.

The aging.. some people do it, some don't. Me, I don't because the water conditioners I use work immediately.. the aging is to remove chlorine/ammonia, etc. 

For now though if he looks that bad, I would go ahead and QT him in a smaller tank- if you have a spare one, even a one gallon works, or half a gallon- tupperware soap residue free, etc.. fill it with warm water the same temp as the tank, and add in only water conditioner. Float him in it and acclimate him to the temp/chemistry and then place him in there (use a net and gently pour him into the net and gently place him in the QT container so the tank water doesn't get into the new water).. that way if he is having a reaction to something in the tank he is removed from it and in something cleaner.. and hope that it helps boost him back up until you can chat with OFL.

Good luck with everything.. don't feel bad, you weren't aware, and you are doing your best to give him the best.


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

Myates said:


> OFL is very knowledgeable in care and treatment, you'll be well taken care of.
> 
> Don't worry about the ghost shrimp- as they are usually sold as food rather then pets so the quality may not be all that great.
> 
> ...


Myates,

Thanks for your help! I just wanted to double check something. Are you sure I should QT him in straight tap water? I just tested it and the pH is above 7.6 (chart won't show past) and the pH in the tank is 7.0. He already went from 7.6 to 7.0 within a few days, would it be safe to do that to him again now? Or is risking the pH change might be better than risking what might be making him sick in the water? Just don't want to put him into shock and kill him!

<3 BettaChic


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Set out some water now, use water conditioner.. if he seems to be going downhill fast, such as starting to tilt to his side or gasping at the surface/bottom of the tank then move him. But if he is just laying still.. then keep a close eye on him. 

Also, slowly adjusting him to the new water will help the pH change- by removing some water from the cup and adding in the QT water every 5-10 minutes over a 30 minute time span will help him adjust to the new pH. 
But go ahead and keep him in the tank unless otherwise instructed by OFL- keeping an eye on him until then.


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

Myates said:


> Set out some water now, use water conditioner.. if he seems to be going downhill fast, such as starting to tilt to his side or gasping at the surface/bottom of the tank then move him. But if he is just laying still.. then keep a close eye on him.
> 
> Also, slowly adjusting him to the new water will help the pH change- by removing some water from the cup and adding in the QT water every 5-10 minutes over a 30 minute time span will help him adjust to the new pH.
> But go ahead and keep him in the tank unless otherwise instructed by OFL- keeping an eye on him until then.


I am slowly adjusting him to the new pH by adding some clean water into his tank very slowly.

I'm highly confused though. I tested my tap water and the ammonia was at .50 ...... not .05 but .50. So I added the water conditioner, tested it again, and the ammonia level was going up.......?? To 1.0? Maybe I'm not understanding how this works, but I thought it was supposed to be going down after using conditioner. I'm using Betta Bowl plus from Aqueon.

<3 BettaChic


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

I don't know about betta bowl plus but Prime converts ammonia to ammonium (harmless) which shows up in tests as ammonia. So it might not be the ammonia. I advise to get him away from the plants -- like Myates said, they can have parasites and stuff. My first thought when you said new plants and spastic movements was flashing, which is the betta trying to rub the parasites off, but the vidoe showed to was just dancing around. Could you try to get another video?


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

fishman12 said:


> I don't know about betta bowl plus but Prime converts ammonia to ammonium (harmless) which shows up in tests as ammonia. So it might not be the ammonia. I advise to get him away from the plants -- like Myates said, they can have parasites and stuff. My first thought when you said new plants and spastic movements was flashing, which is the betta trying to rub the parasites off, but the vidoe showed to was just dancing around. Could you try to get another video?


Hey Fishman12,

All of the ghost shrimp are now dead. I had transferred Ghosty into a separate little bowl last night around 11 PM or so with some of his tank water. I then conditioned some clean water and was SLOWLY adding, very slowly. Because the pH of the tank was at 6.4 and the pH of the clean water was over 7.6 I was worried that big of an instant change would kill him faster. Took Myates advice and added water slowly until 2 AM, then passed out. 

It's now 8 AM and he is still alive.... which is on the bright side, but he is not doing well at all. I fasted him yesterday, because it was the 7th day I've had him, but he does not want to eat at all today. And yes, I'm guessing that the Ammonia test is showing positive due to the water conditioner (at least I hope).

I've uploaded a new video. I'm sorry for my lack of enthusiasm in the video. Tbh, I was actually crying all night about Ghosty and it's only 8 AM here so I'm pretty tired and just hoping Ghosty will make it through. I know I've only had him for a week, but I'm already completely attached to the guy, it was love at first sight =(

http://youtu.be/Ufz_CsCz1aU

I will be doing another 50% water change in the tank today, as per Oldfishlady's recommendation, and keep anyone who is interested updated.

<3 Bettachic


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## BettaChic (Feb 1, 2012)

I've read that I need to get an Ammonia test kit that tests for sodium salicylate? Apparently, this kind of test kit will not show a false positive due to the water conditioner. Can anyone confirm if I should be using this to test my tank instead of the regular Amm. test or does it not matter by the time the clean water dissipates with the tank water?

<3 BettaChic


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Never heard that about the conditioner.... Might as well try it.

He's definitely not flashing. Probably should float his cup in the tank to keep temperatures up. You said the water was turning green. That could be algae but I think it is tannins coming from the driftwood. They are not harmless and I would say collect some but the water might be contaminated from the plants. I saw some AQ salt in the background, adding 1 tsp per gallon would help. I would guess the size of the petco cup at a pint so 1/8 of a teaspoon... Or if you have epsom salt that would work better. Get epsom salt at a pharmacy.. It cure swim bladder disorder and bloating. Or an anit-fubgal medicine- do NOT use bettafix or melafix - maracyn 2 is good. Probably Maracyn 2 is your best shot. Sorry, I don't know the adding instructions for that. Also when you next do a water change add straight tap water to the tank with no Ghosty in it, that might help kill anything on the plants. You'll probably have to take out the driftwood and let it soak for a week +... And watch Ghosty from a bird's eye view to make sure his fins are not sticking out (pineconing). If they are then he has internal organ problems... Pretty much uncurable. Good luck and I'm hoping he pulls through.


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## Jodah (Nov 15, 2011)

You want to avoid using any salt in a planted tank. The plants themselves tend to not like it.

If you are floating him in his cup in the tank, then only add a small amount to his cup. Otherwise I would setup a clean "hospital" tank. Meaning no plants, no gravel, just the basic tank, heater, and maybe something for him to rest on near the surface.


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## Poro (Jan 3, 2015)

Thanks for this article. My betta was acting up and i did a simple change and hes better now


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