# Newbie and unsure



## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Hi 

Recently I bought my son a betta fish and, thinking I was doing the right thing, bought him the biggest 'fighter tank' (2.4 litres) at the store and a heater. After doing some reading I realised this isn't right so went back to the drawing board.

I now have for him a 12 litre tank with a filter, a rock with holes for hiding, silk plants and water with betta conditioner drops. I haven't moved him yet as the instructions say to have the filter running for 5-7 days before adding the fish so he's still in the horrible tiny tank :-( he does seem happy enough though. Very friendly little guy.

The heater I have was specifically for the small tank, and is 5 watt. I get the feeling I am going to be advised to buy a new heater???? The 12L tank which he has not yet been transferred into is 71F with no heater (I'm in a warm area) but I do realise they are tropical fish and do need to be kept warm. 

Anyway, I'm nervous about moving him as cycling, nitrogen, etc is still a bit daunting for me and he looks so healthy in his small tank. Does the 12L (3 gallon) setup mentioned above sound OK to move him into?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

As long as you keep the water changed out they are fine in small homes. He will be fine til you are ready to move him. 71 is just too cold. You can try the small heater and see if it can hold the temp at 77 or higher. If not you will need a bigger one. You aren't going to cycle a tank in a week so no need to wait. He can go in the bigger tank.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Even if you keep up a stringent water change schedule in the half-gallon tank, he would still be safer and more comfortable in the 3g, even at lower temperatures. Of course you want to get it heated soonest. Best advice is to get a 25W _adjustable_ heater from Eheim, Hagen, Hydor. Thee are other suggestions on one of the heater threads floating around here. Get a cheap floating thermometer to make sure the temperature is 78*-82*.

The 5-7 day waiting advice is totally without value and downright wrong. Cycling the tank is important, but not something you have to do right away. Get Seachem Prime water conditioner, a product which detoxifies ammonia, and put in 6 drops with every water change. Change half the water every other day until you get one of these. 
Amazon.com: API Freshwater Master Test Kit: Pet Supplies
Get a bottle of Prime along with it and get free shipping.

If you continue to perform a 50% water change every other day, and do *not* clean the filter or substrate, eventually your tank will cycle. There, wasn't that easy.

PS: Usually it is best if you do not listen to petstore personnel. The combined wisdom of this forum will ensure healthy, happy fish and pleased, contented keepers.

Welcome to the forum.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks very much for the replies. Incidentally I just went in to check the temp of the new tank and it is around 76F with no heater but this is after being in the warm room all day (it's 8 pm here). I figure it will cool overnight which is what I want to avoid.

Awesome news re moving him right away! I am hoping he loves his new setup, I'm still feeling pretty guilty and stupid about the current arrangement.

I might work on getting the temperature up tomorrow which will likely require another trip back to the store, but better than a cold fish! 

Another concern I have is filter being too strong?

If I can work it out I will post a picture to show you what I mean.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

While you're at the petstore, get a small quantity of aquarium sponge. You can rubber-band or zip-tie a piece over the outflow of your filter. This should cut down the current enough for his comfort.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

OK I've been doing some Googling and finally found a Hydor heater locally, but I'm not even sure it's adjustable http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3269&catID=7

Unfortunately that test kit from Amazon won't ship to my address and, lucky old me living in Australia, that very same kit is $65 here!!!

I did source some Prime here which doesn't cost the earth and can pick some up today if need be. I've been using this one http://store.cityfarmers.com.au/blue-planet-betta-shield-50ml.html would that be OK? Or definitely make the change to Prime?

I haven't moved him yet as I'm still reluctant and haven't sourced a heater. Should I be putting a plant or some water from his current tank into the new one? I'm just nervous about putting him into a brand new tank - typical me, I bought him for my son and I've become fond of him myself. I really don't want him to become a casualty.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Here is the new tank waiting for him, I assume the condensation is because it's warmer inside the tank compared to the room it's currently sitting in.


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## Skuldane (Aug 22, 2013)

I love his heater if you are still debating.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DGHG8U/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## leejohn02 (Sep 5, 2013)

Nice little tank. I would try to get a live plant for it if you can, its better than silk and helps keep ammonia down, also I would try your current heater in the tank b4 you move him, and then look at getting a bigger one asap, as for test kits if you don't want to buy a kit straight away, you lfs or Lps will test the water for you, sometime for free other times for a small fee, I would do this weekly until you can get your own, make sure to get a liquid test kit, these are more accurate


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I thought about a live plant, and I think they look so much nicer than silk but I'm worried that's going to be a whole other learning curve when I'm already a bit lost. If I bought a super low maintenance live plant, would I have to do anything else other than what I'm planning?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Sorry you can't get a test kit. It's rather important when cycling a tank that size. Can you get test strips? Failing that, in the interest of fish safety, you'd want to perform a 50% water change every other or third day. This is where Prime is so important. It detoxifies ammonia for a couple of days. It would be nice to know your pH. Further advice would be better with this information.

Your going to have a difficult time growing plants in that tank. I don't see provisions for a light. Anubias is a great low-light, hard-to-kill plant that looks nice and fish like. Java fern is also good. Java moss or mossballs. Anything else is going to want light. You could easily use a desk-lamp with that setup.

The Hydor Theo adjustable heater is exactly what you want.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm going to make some trips around the place to see if I can find some test kits, I really don't want to move him unless I can guarantee the water is safe.

The tank has some LED lights in the lid, I assumed they were purely ornamental with a blue one for night and white for day. 

Will grab some Prime when I find a decent aquarium store with test kits etc.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

12L is approx 3 gallons, right? Which should be big enough. IMO I don't bother cycling anything under 5 gallons. Keeping up with WC should be easy enough.
And I don't know whats available in Australia, but Prime is highly recommended because its literally a drop of prime per gallon of water. Which makes it highly concentrated and long lasting. (its smells awful though, so don't sniff it)
I live in a hot & humid environment as well, and I've found that if I just unplug my heater during the day (because it will bump the temp up in the tank to about 82, I've forgotten to unplug before) and plug it in at night that usually works well.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

The tank is cute and of course you can cycle but why all this hassle, you not experienced, i think its better just keep regular water changes. Its will be easier for you. Filters are not necessity for the bettas and your tank is not big so its very easy for cycle to crash . You can successfully keep your betta for long time in not cycled tank. You just need to do 2-50% and 1-100% water changes a week.

oops xjen didn't see your reply


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## leejohn02 (Sep 5, 2013)

You can buy weighted plants instead of potted and just replace the as required, the only thing you will have to do with a weighted plant is pull off the dead leaves its exactly the same as any other plant except you don't have to worry about watering lol, or feeding for that matter


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I kind of agree that it matter of preference if you want to cycle or not in the tank size like that. I don't cycle my tanks and my bettas live pretty long.
xjenuhfur i have the smaller bottle of Prime that actually difficult to find in the stores now. Its says 2 drops per gallon But people saying to difficult to overdose and i end up all the time with 4 drops per gall. But i thought its better to put tiny bit more than not enough


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> I kind of agree that it matter of preference if you want to cycle or not in the tank size like that. I don't cycle my tanks and my bettas live pretty long.
> xjenuhfur i have the smaller bottle of Prime that actually difficult to find in the stores now. Its says 2 drops per gallon But people saying to difficult to overdose and i end up all the time with 4 drops per gall. But i thought its better to put tiny bit more than not enough


Mine doesn't say how many drops it is, so i usually end up overdosing too. xD


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i know non of the bigger bottle of the Prime tell you that ,its all ml for 100 or 200 L. And sometimes people get confused with dosage. The only bottle that says 2 drops per gall is the one that i have . I don't remember how big it is, i think its 50 ml and its has dropper lid. I have it for long time and i can't find the same size of it in any of the stores. Its so convenient that it has that dropper lid I keep my bettas every where lol I have 2 jobs and i keep bettas there and at home. So the bottle at the doctor office i am working. I have 2 bettas there so that Prime bottle i think i have for more than a year and a half. May be they discontinue them. Sorry for too many details


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice. I'll pick up some Prime for sure. The current water conditioner I have required SIXTY drops. Two per gallon sounds so much easier!!


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

The saga continues. I managed to make a huge trip down to an aquarium shop and sourced a 25W heater. Getting it in was a bit of an issue because it is a round bowl. I had to double up the suction cups and I'm not sure if it is ever so slightly touching the glass at the side.

If it is slightly touching the glass - will it be OK?


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I've never had any problems with round tanks and heaters touching the side.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How its going?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I put him in last night once the water was warmer and he was so happy. Went in this morning to feed him and he looks all floppy and isn't himself :-(

I turned he filter off because it was way too strong. Will try to baffle it today.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm not sure he's going to make it unfortunately. His fins aren't looking great - they kind of look 'skinnier' than they once were (I'm pretty sure he's a crowntail) and he's not as active. I managed to get the filter on a nice low flow and have covered the intake with aquarium sponge to protect him fins but I think it may have all been a waste of time. He was very content and active in his little bowl, but I'm not game to move him yet again and cause more stress.

I feel really bad :-(


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Take the filter out and do 2-25% water changes back to back, then do 50% water changes. Do not forget to use water conditioner. What you usually adding to the water?
See if it will help. Let us know how he doing


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I usually use a conditioner specifically designed for bettas - bettashield I think it is called. It states that it eliminates ammonium and coats the fins etc... 

His fins have gone all 'stringy' and thinner than they were. I've obviously done something very wrong, he's not himself at all.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do all water changes you can skip 25% just do a few 50% like about 30 min a part. Can you post the picture. Did you take the filter out?
Is he swimming at all? Is he eating? 
He also might got caught in the filter and ripped his fins or he might bit him. Are you able to post the picture.
But first as soon as you can do water changes.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I had the filter turned off overnight as it was too strong, however it is fine now with a sponge over the intake so no chance of catching his fins. 

He's swimming from time to time, his fins aren't flared out like normal and he tends to swim, then float at the top for ages as though he's sleeping. I'll post a picture if I can get one of him, he's hard to even see because he's hanging around at the top.

EDIT: sorry, yes he is eating well. Same amounts and quickly as normal.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

this was him last night, happy as


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Heater on, sponge over filter intake.

His fins looking lousy


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## eden000 (May 23, 2013)

The liquid crystal thermometers, I've found, don't work at all. Just as a long shot: get a proper thermometer, and take the temperature of the water. The new heater might be malfunctioning and he might be hot/cold. Just want to make sure you cover the bases, just in case it's an easy fix like that.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I did wonder about the temp. I'll grab a new thermometer this afternoon.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

+1
still about filter. You can't turn it off its not working this way. And i really think you don't need the filter for your tank at all. You tank have some decorations + the water not all of the way to the top(which is normal) so you have abut 2.5 gall of the water in the tank. The tank that size better to keep without filter and do regular water changes 2-50 and full water change a week. 
I don't know i think its will more harm than better with the filter in your tank.
If you decide to keep the filter make sure you swish/rinse it weekly in the tank or dechlorinated water.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'd really love to be able to keep the filter - whole tank changes are a nightmare and seem to distress him (from my experience with the old, small tank) plus the tank with the inbuilt filter cost upward of $100 and all of this other runaround has been over another $100. The filter is nice and slow now and really not bothering him. 

I just got a thermometer and a live plant. I don't know what else I can do but I get the feeling soon I will be selling a huge load of fish accessories because he's really not looking good.


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## eden000 (May 23, 2013)

What is the temperature of the water?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How is he doing? Is he still eating?Is he active at all or just lay there?
Was you able to check the temperature to make sure the heater don't overheat? Because the only reason i see its can be either the heater malfunction , if the temp the same then its something got in the water.
Are you sure the heater don't leach anything in the water?
Did you put anything new in the tank when you transfer him there?
I would check the water temperature if its ok and you think heater do not leach anything i would just take anything new from the tank that you put there when you transfer him and do water changes as i mentioned before.
He got like that right after you transfer him so its not that he sick its something poisoning the water.
Is it aquarium sponge you using for the filter? Did you use different water conditioner, add anything in the water?
I think you need to do water changes anyway.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Temperature is 26C. He moves around a little bit but not as much as he used to :-(

I'll change the water now.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

please let us know how he doing. Is he eating?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He's at our desk and my husband has been keeping an eye on him today. Said he has barely moved, has been hiding all morning, and I can see a pellet in there. Usually he gobbles them up within seconds but this time he hasn't eaten them :-(

I'm going to buy a water test kit today, I just have to call my local pet stores to see if they have them in stock.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So the water changes didn't help? Is it was something new in the new tank that you used and didn;t use in his old tank?
Are you using the same additives for the water as you were for the small tank? Or there is something new?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If he will still acting sick i would really take everything out from the tank do water changes again. Or if you can keep the temperature in his old tank you can put him there and do daily water changes see how he doing. I just read the thread over again and he got worse overnight right after you put him in the new tank, meaning that the problem with water. Something poisoning the water. And i am assuming its not the tap water is the problem, since you had him before in the old tank with the tap water.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I just tested the water and the PH was too high 7.6 and the ammonia was 0.50 ppm.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ph is fine, you probobly always had it and he adjusted to it any way. 
How much water did you change? If he is still lethargic or you think not eating take everything from the tank so you can monitor him. Do water changes.

Also check the ammonia in your tap water without water conditioner to see if you have ammonia in the water or its something in the tank.

Also when you feed him just try to give one pellet and the time and see if he is eating it. Remove it if he don't.

I am curious how long you had him before you put him in the new tank? He was fine with the same water and the same water conditioner that you are using right now.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I checked the ammonia straight from the tap and it has ammonia. I had him for about two weeks beforehand and he was a happy little guy.

I changed 25% of the water.

The more I look at him, the more I am convinced he has a *serious* case of fin rot. When we got him some of his fins were slightly bent, now they are terrible. Can a change of tank worsen fin rot? I think he is sick, and I really can't see what could be in the new tank that is causing such serious issues.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How much ammonia in the tap water? 
Are you able to buy a Prime? I don't remember if you find the prime before in the store. Prime change the ammonia to ammonium for at least 24-48 hrs and its best recommended when you have the problem like that.
If not i would try to do more water changes than 25% . I would try to do a few 50% about 1 hr apart and see if its helps.
Try to see if you can get Prime in the store.
Tank its self will not worsen his fins, the water quality can.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I can't remember exactly but possibly 0.25. He looks so bad I'm not sure it will be easily fixed..poor little thing I have done nothing but fiddle with the tank for the past few days he must be sick of me! I put some stress + zyme in there and some more water conditioner. Will test again tomorrow as it is currently close to midnight here.
Did you see the pic I posted earlier of his fins? Do you think it is fin rot? They really look terrible and I'm surprised he has worsened so much and so quickly.

Everything I put in the tank had been washed with warm water before being put in and the sponge was an aquarium filter sponge.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I was also thinking if he will not feel better and you the ammonia high you can temporary keep him in the spring water until you get Prime. Spring water , not purified or distilled water. 
Can you post us a picture? Are you sure its a fin rot not tail biting. Fin rot he will have black, discolored edges. Tail biting especially if its happened overnight and if there are ''u '' shapes marks can be betta teeth marks. 
Is he active at all or he is sitting on the bottom all the time or hanging on the top?
I didn't see your reply we post at the same time...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Where is his picture? Sorry you meant picture in the post #30. I thought you meant new ones. Its definitely biting if they like that.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Picture is on page three of this thread (sorry, I'm not at a computer to post it again easily). His fins are sort of stringy and he doesn't flare them out like he used to.

He moves, but not nearly as much as he used to and is hanging around things like the heater, thermometer...like he's hiding.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks so much for your help. I'll do some tail biting research and keep trying. He seems really bad, and I'm going to try my hardest to help him get better.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If your tap water less ammonia than in his tank right now you really need to do more water changes as soon as you can. No picture that you posted don;t look like tail biting at all though.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You don't have to put another picture unless he has new damage. That picture don't have those ''u'' shapes. If you able do another water changes right now about 50%


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh sorry I thought you meant it was biting. It doesn't look right whatever it is.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

no its does not. Its just something came to my mind. I think you wrote before that your water conditioner required 60 drops? Why its so many? And now you put stress + zyme. Kind of too much ....don't put zyme. Did you see my post 51?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Anjelita,

Anhel asked me to take a look at your thread. Is this a pretty good summary of what's going on?

Summary:
Originally in a 2.4L tank with a heater.
You moved him into a new 12L tank with a new filter (baffled) and a new 25W heater.
You're in Australia. (Knowing this gives us an idea of what products you can/can't get.
You're using Betta Shield water conditioner. (Removes/neutralizes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. Contains aloe vera and colloids.)
His fins are clamped and "stringy." Eating well (until yesterday).

Yesterday: 
Water temp about 26C.
Did not eat his usual pellets.
"Barely moved" and is hiding.

Today: 
pH at 7.6 
Ammonia at 0.50 ppm. 
Tap water tested positive for ammonia. (Possibly about 0.25ppm?)
His fins are having problems, and you feel it's fin rot.

Your pH is fine. I would not try to change it.

The ammonia level is high, however. I'm thinking the high ammonia level is due to the tank not being cycled yet. I would increase the frequency of water changes, and keep using Betta Shield, as these are the best ways to keep ammonia low/neutralized.

I have some questions:
What is "new" in the new 12L tank? (I see gravel, decorations, heater, plants, filter. Are these "new?" What about anything else?)
What was the water temperature in his old tank? Is it different from what's in his new tank?
How long after switching him to the new tank did he display symptoms? Did he seem OK at first? (And for how long was he OK?)

As been suggested, you may want to get a glass thermometer that goes inside the tank. They're more accurate than the stick-on types.

I'm wondering if there's something new that was added to the new tank that's causing an issue..... 

Can you try an experiment? 
 Note the temperature of the water. (Use your thermometer.)
 Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
 Rinse out the tank. 
Put *only* the new heater and thermometer back into the tank. (Nothing else yet. No gravel, decorations, plants, etc.)
 Refill the tank with water at the SAME temp. (Within +/- 2 degrees F, or 1 degree C.) 
Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
 Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min. (Longer is OK.)
 Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
 Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Longer is OK.)
 Repeat the above two steps, until about an hour has passed. (Longer is OK.)
 If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
 Gently release him into the tank.

You said that it looks like he has fin rot. Can you describe what the tips of his fins look like? Are they dark (black, brown or gray)? Do the edges look "smudged" at all? These are signs of fin rot.

Can you post a new photo of him so that we can see what he looks like today?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Anhel I had to put sixty drops as it says to use 5 drops per litre. 5 x 12 = 60 drops. I do need some Prime as you mentioned. 

That is a good summary, little blue fishlets. I did pick up a glass thermometer though so I am fairly confident that the temp is correct.

Everything in the new tank was new. I thought I had been very thorough when I got it all. I washed everything with warm water, and I ensured the gravel was running clear water and not dirty before putting it in. 

I will try that today, and I think this will be my last attempt before giving in and putting him in his old horrible tank where he was happy.

His fins are dark and stringy. I'll see if I can take a picture, he is a bit hard to catch at the moment because he always hides.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

There may have been something new that was leaching chemicals into the water. For example, paints on decorations should be aquarium-safe, but sometimes they aren't.

You said that it looks like he has fin rot. Can you describe what the tips of his fins look like? Are they dark (black, brown or gray)? Do the edges look "smudged" at all? These are signs of fin rot.

Can you post a new photo of him so that we can see what he looks like today?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

this is the best shot i can get, he won't come out.


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## puplove52 (Jan 9, 2013)

I've had a betta since November 2012. I've kept him in a 1 gallon bowl with heat lamp. I've always thought I should change him into a larger bowl/tank. I realized that he is happy and healthy in his bowl. If you make a dramatic change in size etc it could effect his health. Since he is use to the tiny bowl you say he has.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm getting ready to put him back in actually. I cannot get the ammonia down in his large one and have no prime on hand. The levels in his old one are perfect, so I'm putting the heater back on and putting him back in, if only just to recover.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you do that take long time to acclimate him .


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I will. I won't be making this mistake again. I've got a plastic cup here ready for when the water warms up.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok you have LittleBlueFishlets instructions. Good luck. Give us update.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

how its going?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

It's really awful to watch really. His fins are terrible. I can literally see 'bits' of them at the bottom of the tank. I haven't put any gravel in to make changes easier. I think he has a severe case of fin rot from the Google I did yesterday. I followed some instructions on how to treat yesterday using aquarium salt and am going to change 100% of the water today and do it again. 

I haven't put anything AT ALL in the tank (apart from thermometer) out of fear it will make him worse, which is hard because he can't hide...and we have to see him suffering :-( 

He is at least _trying_ to eat today, but he just spits it back out again. This is horrible. I don't know I can have another fish because I have really messed this poor little one up badly.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I ordered some Prime from the US yesterday but I get the feeling it will be too late by the time it arrives. The ammonia in his small tank is good, I'm going to keep him in there and hope these salt baths help him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok do not blame yourself please. What happening to you happened to all of us. We all learning and trying to do our best. You do wonderful job for him. 
You saying that you could see ''bits'' on the bottom. Can you post new picture? Or he looks the same that on the previous picture. I am still wondering if he can bite the fins. Is there a ''u''shape marks? OR You see Smudged or discolored tips?
Keep trying to feed him and i would do daily water changes. You can alternate between 50% and 100% daily water changes . 
You said that you added aquarium salt. How much of it did you added. And if you adding it make sure you always pre mix and dissolved.
I think you don't need to add aquarium salt though because i still think that it was something in that new tank that made him worse . Especially if you saying that the ammonia is fine right now but it was high in the other tank. So try to do daily water changes and keep feeding him. 
Can you find frozen blood worms in the pet store?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I followed the instructions for fin rot from a website - I added 1/2 teaspoon of salt, mixed it with a cup of tank water thoroughly and gradually added it to his tank. His fins are sort of disintegrating :-( They're really dark, almost black, and look as though they're dissolving. He's literally half the size he used to be and just looks miserable. I hate seeing him like this. I'm about to do another 100% water change. 

I've got fighter pellets here, I haven't seen bloodworms in my travels..I could call to check. I thought about halving/crumbling a pellet to see if that makes it easier for him to swallow. It's been 2 days now since he's eaten.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

HE'S LOOKING HAPPIER  

I've got him in a plastic cup while I clean out his tank and he's swimming around like mad and trying to get out like he used to. His fins still look miserable, but he's so much more active.


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

I just stumbled onto this thread so I've only read the last couple of posts, but I'm so glad he's starting to feel better!  

They're tough little guys, I'm pulling for his complete recovery!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So he is in his old tank and you saying he is acting better. And you saying he is eating right? 
Do daily water changes.

If you can try to get frozen blood worms its would be nice since its has a lot of protein and good for the immune system.
Also i would recommend to get NLS because it has garlic in it which also good for the immune system

http://www.bigalspets.com/betta-formula-1-mm-semi-floating-pellets-50-g.html

If you sure its a fin rot and you added 1/2 of the aquarium salt then increase it to 1 tsp/gall of the salt. You need to do daily water changes and add the salt every time you do a water change. 

Would you able to post a pictures to make sure its really not a biting?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks Blue Fish - I'm feeling so much more positive today, you're right - they're hardy little creatures!

Anhel I'm fairly sure it's fin rot, it deteriorated so quickly and does match to some of the photos of fin rot on Google. Either way, he seems to be really responding to the daily water changes with aquarium salt. 

Yesterday I managed to crush a few pellets up and he ate some but not all. This morning he ate three whole ones - gobbled them up in seconds. He went crazy when he saw me coming in, knowing it was breakfast time. Apart from the mangled looking fins, his personality is 100% back to his usual self. 

I'll attach a pic, sorry I couldn't really get a good one, I've only got an iphone and bad lighting


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Pictures kind of blurry but his caudal fins has kind of ''u'' shape like a betta bite marks. Not sure since fins little clumped. But i would think if he is better keep doing daily water changes.
This is some pictures with tail biters 

https://www.google.com/search?q=mor...j0&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Try to google more pictures so you can understand how its look like when they bite it off. 
Or try to make better picture of him so we can see it.
I am glad he is better and eating. Sorry i forgot how big is his tank right now?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Going by Google it looks more like rot than biting, but I'm not 100% sure. Is there anything different I'd have to do if it is in fact biting?

I'll see if I can get a shot when the lighting is better, the one above was the absolute best I could do for now with my phone.

His tank he's in now is half a gallon. He's as happy as pie at the moment.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Half a gallon. I forgot its that small, you really need to do full water changes like every may be every other day or every 2 days. Are you able to keep the temp in his tank?

In that tank i don't think you can do anything different ,lets try to see the pictures to see what he has. And then i guess go from that. I think its ok to keep him there until he is completely back to him self and strong.

I know how much you probobly petrified to put him back in the bigger tank. But meanwhile i think its good idea to take EVERYTHING out from that bigger tank and rinse it very well. Put the tank out in the sun for a week or two . Or you can just air dry it for a few wks. I would not use anything from that tank , only tank itself 

Can you take that filter out from that tank? I don't remember if you bought the filter separately?


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

If its fin-rot, aq-salt treatment for a max of 14 days. Keep his water clean, and do 100% changes everyday. I dont think it would be necessary to trash everything from the old tank unless it was a fungus or something.

If he is biting, look at his tail (make him flare) and look for little C shaped marks on the edges of his tail. If its just biting, try to make him as comfortable as possible and keep the water uber clean. Usually it'll heal up itself and you'll have some clear regrowth after a bit.
Goblin was an awful tail-biter when I first got him. He looked exactly like your fish. But every time I moved Goblin to a new tank he would bite his fins. He moved from a 4 gal biorb to a 2.5 gal to a 10 gal. He bit himself in the 4 gal, recovered in the 2.5 gal, and when he moved to the 10 gal he bit himself more. I moved him to a 5 gal hex with a TON of plants and stuff to hide/play in and he's stopped since. I do however now have 4 tanks for 2 fish.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

No the original issue was not the fin rot or biting  It was something that we think was contaminating the tank and we were trying to figure out what it is. That is why its 8 pages


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

Ooooh. I must've missed a page somewhere.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'll keep going with the 100% water changes for now as he seems to be responding to them 

His half gallon tank has a heating thing underneath and the temperature is consistent. 

The filter came with the larger tank. I'm definitely not going to put him back in until he's 100% better and I can be sure the tank is ok. Do you think I should cycle it? I have a live plant in it but have no idea about cycling.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would not recommend you to cycle it. He doing good with full water changes so i would continue that. I personally also do full water changes for my bettas and they live long life. I just had my 4 years died and its not the oldest one that i have now. So its nothing wrong with uncycled tanks. But i just feel bad that you had the tank with build in filter. Is that filter taking a lot of space in the tank? Is there any possibilities you can go and exchange it for the same size but without the filter?
Just if you decide to do that , rinse everything out to make sure its clean . I would not want another betta get sick in there in case something was toxic in there.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

The filter isn't very intrusive at all - the heater for the tank takes up far more room. The filter is just a small tube going up to the top. There's no way I'll be able to exchange it now, it's been used.

I'm going to keep him in his old tank until he looks completely better (as in his fins). I'm not quite sure what I'll do once that happens..move him or leave him.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

hope these pics are better. He used to have beautiful, thick fins. Now he is a lot smaller and fins look pathetic in comparison to what they used to be. He seems to be changing colour, and going slightly pale at the bottom....is this OK? He seems happy and energetic.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just look at his previous picture in your post #29 hmm i didn't think that he has too much change? But i guess you know better. I am looking on the picture and i think in the first picture his lower caudal fins kind of stick together , am i right or its my imagination?
Check out the pictures just for comparison 
https://www.google.com/search?q=cro...QGEgoHADw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667&dpr=1


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

His fins aren't as thick and healthy-looking any more. Something definitely happened to them. At one point they were all dry-looking and he could barely swim. He's looking much better now though. Here's some other before pics:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

hmm looks fine to me, but i guess you have comparison its your betta and you saying it so surely so you might be right. Since you already using aquarium salt and saying its improving use it for 10 days. How much of the salt you putting per gallon? I know you have very small tank but still you can pre mix it in one gall jug ,and use the water fro a few days. Use therapeutic dose which is 1 tsp/gall -it is minimum dose. The box give you instruction for preventative care. And always pre mix and make sure its dissolved (no crystals left)


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

he's definitely improving. He looks 100 times better just in the past few days. I've been using 1/2 a teaspoon and mixing it in a cup before putting it in the new water. I think today will be day 4, after 10 days I'll stop and I'm thinking by that point he'll be back to his old self if this is anything to go by


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Since you already using it for 4 days and you saying he is improving do not stop the salt. Increase it to 1 tsp/gall and use it total of 14 days. The instructions on the box are for the preventative care and not a therapeutic care. So do 1tsp of the salt which is minimum dosage. It like when the human start the antibiotic its better to finish the course of it.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

It's a half gallon tank (I know, way too small but it's working for now) so 1/2 teaspoon is 1 teaspoon per gallon. He's responding really well and is looking better by the day  He's got his colour back and his fins are almost back to normal. I'll definitely keep going! I'm really happy. I have no idea what to do with him once this is all over - too scared to move him again!!!!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

keep us posted please .


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Will do  

I really think he's all better. I just put him in his cup to clean the tank and fed him as always. He literally jumped out of the water to grab the food from my fingers. He's a real character. Really glad we were able to save him!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope so Good to hear! Sorry i don't remember , are you feeding him with the larva and pellets?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

just pellets. I'm wary of changing anything at the moment as he's responding so well.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

keep us updated!


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He's doing really well still. The daily water changes seem to be really helping his fins. They've grown back so fast they're almost back to normal. He does seem to attack fingers if you put them in there - is this a sign of stress or a normal instinct?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

normal instinct , and he probobly also begging for the food too


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

OK I've got yet another new fish bowl for him haha. He's still in his half gallon at the moment because I'm way too scared to move him - but yesterday I did buy a non-filtered bowl for him just in case it was the filter that was the issue with the last one. I'm going to get a fish for the one with the inbuilt filter that don't have long fins so it won't make life difficult for them.

So I think this is another 3 gallon, although it didn't mention it when I bought it. I've got a heater in there, a glass thermometer. It came with gravel which I rinsed with hot water about 10 times until the water ran clear. I've also got one brand new silk plant in there, which I also washed thoroughly with hot water before putting it in. I've conditioned the water.

Nervous to move him, but at least I know if he freaks out again I can move him back in.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Let us know how did it go. 
New heaters i always like to test them before i put them in the tank to make sure its not defective and don't leach anything in the water. Hopefully everything went good , i am also nervous, so please let us know what is going on.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

It's a glass, adjustable heater. I left it in overnight with no fish, just to make sure it keeps a steady water temp - success. Is there a way to tell whether it's leaching anything in the water? I've got the fish in his cup adjusting to the new tank water as we speak. I've tested for ammonia and it's all good. Do you think it'd be OK to put him in now?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I guess if it would leach something to the water , it will make the water cloudy , i would think. 
Did you put him in the tank? How its going?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I did and he's good  He seems to like it. Is still his usual self, very friendly and still hangs about the front of the tank for attention (probably waiting for more food)


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh good i was worry and paranoid something will happened


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I've cleaned his tank today but ended up putting his old water conditioner in instead of the Prime I ordered from the US.

The instructions on the Prime say 5mL per 200L/50 gallon. I have about a 10L/3gallon. How on earth am I supposed to measure a quarter of a mL?? 

He's still doing OK, although I'm worried his fins are ever so slightly turning a bit 'stringy' again. I'm back to daily 100% water changes I fear.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

It's happening all over again :-(

I'm convinced he just doesn't like larger tanks.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

anjelita said:


> The instructions on the Prime say 5mL per 200L/50 gallon. I have about a 10L/3gallon. How on earth am I supposed to measure a quarter of a mL??


Two drops per gallon

R


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks rickey


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

wow so sorry Weird. Anything in the tank that is from that tank when he was sick?
Try to just take everything out and rinse the tank itself and do not put anything back in the tank. 
Please let us know how its going?
Is he eating? 
What are the symptoms?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

worry give us an update.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He's actually looking a little better after his 100% water change yesterday. He seems to be really sensitive to dirty water - it was only two days since his last change! I think I need to clean his tank 100% every second day. Hopefully this Prime will help but either way I don't mind cleaning it a lot. 

His fins are wearing away again, but today they look a little better thank goodness. Yesterday he seemed a bit lethargic, but today he's back to his old self and jumping out of the water for food, biting us, coming up to the tank to see us etc. Phew. 

I wonder if I'm feeding him too much - I feed him two pellets in the morning, one around lunch then one at dinner. I'm thinking maybe this is why his water gets so dirty so quickly.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Can you remind what you feeding him with?
Its really not a lot though. I don't like flakes they will make water dirty. 
I am wondering what is that that bothers him. 
I don't remember but i think you don't have ammonia in the water , am i right?


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## JDOG808 (Sep 1, 2013)

Just go to where you got the Betta. They should have live Betta plants. They should also have plant aquarium tablets for the plant to feed it. Make sure you get a low light plant that can live without lots of sun, unless his bowl gets lots of sunlight. The plants I bought for our Betta are doing great and he loves sleeping on the leaves.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm using the conditioner and tested the ammonia and it was good. I'm feeding him with pellets which he loves. Water temperature is good. Water good. I just don't understand! There's nothing I can think of that could possibly be stressing him out as he is one spoiled betta.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well at least he is back himself. Do you think he is biting his tail? 
Can't think of anything what could bothers him unless he was a sleep when you was thinking that he is lethargic. For example some of my bettas don't like to be bother in the morning. Or for example i have bettas downstairs so if i would turn the light off now and will go upstairs for like 45 min i think they go sleep and don't want to be bothered. Do you think he might was a sleep ? Is it was for the short period of time that you think he was lethargic or for the long time?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He seemed a bit out of sorts, it's really not like him to sleep during the day at all. He usually sleeps at night. I work here at home so I see him all day and literally every day he's awake, he sleeps when it gets dark. 

The strange thing is, I siphoned the gravel and 100% of the water yesterday and wiped out the tank with an aquarium sponge yet when I just went to change the water then it seemed dirty and was a bit smelly. What could cause the water to get so bad in a mere few days, and even one day since the water change?

Today I had to take the entire tank to the laundry and wash it all with hot water.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You doing full water changes , and you doing it a lot so do not use the siphon, and sponge to wipe the walls. Just take him out when you change the water, just rinse everything in the tank(of course without soap, just warm water) , you can wipe the walls if there is green algae or if it has slimy layer with a plain white paper towel . Then just rinse the tank with a warm, water and its good to go. 

Water get smelly and dirty in two days is not normal. And you really not overfeeding him. And you said the water parameters are good. 
What do you mean dirty though ? Is there some kind of film on the surface? What color it is? 
Do you think it can be from the gravel or decoration? 
Try to take everything out with your next scheduled water change and do not put it back, see if the water still would be dirty and smelly.


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh I only use the siphon because there's no way I can carry all of the weight (the tank with water) from the front of the house to the laundry, which is at the back of the house. I siphon the water out purely so I can carry it without breaking my back.

The water did look a little brownish. Which is really strange as I'd cleaned it not long ago and I rinsed the gravel out...gosh..it would have to be at least 5 or 6 times. 

Water seems OK today. Still looks clean, no smell. I might do a water change anyway.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It makes sense now why you using the siphon. Just rinse it with hot water after each use and hang it vertically to drip all water out so its not stay in side and give algae.
So is he back to normal?


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He's mostly back to normal now. Very energetic as he always is thankfully. His fins look slightly worse for wear but they are again quickly regrowing. 

I had him in a plastic cup to acclimatise to the water temperature in his tank after the water change and he jumped out into the tank. I'm hoping he's not going to be affected by the sudden change.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

should be fine unless the temp like more than 4-5* different than his and even then he should be fine.
Yes its a big problem they are very good jumpers. I just bought new betta and he jumped out of his changing cup , gave me heart attack. I am aware that it can happen so i don't fill the changing cup up the the top, and i always put the changing cup on the disposable plate that always wet with dechlorinated water from his tank. So he landed on the plate , but was absolutely fine when i put him back. Its just so difficult to pick them up . My hands were shaking ...and its after i have bettas for linger than 7 years.And its not the first tiime when betta jumped on me. So be careful always cover the cup with your hand. You was lucky he jumped in the tank not on the floor lol


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

I know haha!! I was sitting at my desk and had his cup floating so he could adjust to the temperature, I turned around and saw him swimming around in his tank, looked back at my computer then did a double take - WHAT THE?!?! He is always very keen to get out of the cup. Can't say I blame him lol.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh i hope everything will go good and he will not give us a problem. Keep us updated please. Good luck!


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## anjelita (Sep 24, 2013)

He's still doing well. I've been cleaning the tank daily which can get a bit annoying. 

I just read on another site that bettas 'need' a filter. I'm worried now. He's in a 3 gallon bowl-shaped tank, with heater, but no filter (too scared after the last attempt). If I change the water every other day and use prime, is this OK? He seems really happy but if it's not an ideal environment I really feel maybe he needs to be moved?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

3 gall is good size so don't worry. All my bettas that i have live in 2.5 gall tanks. Filters are not necessity for the bettas at all. I don't have filters in any of my tanks and i just had my 4 years old died a month or so ago. And i have 3 years old and my other bettas. So don't worry about it.
But you do not have to clean 3 gall daily. Try to do it every 5 days , see what happened. Its should not be a problem. If the water get cloudy just do 50% water change in between.


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