# Sorority Girl Hunt: Going for "Green"



## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

SO I'm getting right back into my betta obsession with a firey passion. Being ADD, this was triggered by the following train of thought:



My sister is a teacher.
In my opinion, classrooms should have fishtanks due to the calming and educational benefits.
Her classroom is hogwarts themed... (Que research on yellow, green, red, and blue small schooling fish for a nano tank)
I wind up on aquabid checking prices on said fish, while IM-ing my friend about the LACK of green fish and how sad it is.
I look up green bettas, and some of Chard's auctions pop up.
I click to see all his auctions, and;








(Breeder's photo)

So I wound up staaaaring at this guy and his purple eyes, (A trait I have NEVER seen on a betta before, even in photos), and everytime I tried to click away, I always wound up clicking back, and I wound up caving and bidding on him. (I won)
Of course, my next thought was: "There should be more of this guy...but with better balanced fins, and a larger spread of that thick purple iridescence..."
So I begun looking for females, and having a limited space, (And power outlits) I decided that a 20 long would be best, and the month it'll take to cycle should give me more then enough time to gather females for it, (shipping sometimes takes awhile) and allow them to get used to looking at eachother in their seperate containers (while I check for signs of aggressions with 3 small tanks on standby).

I'd LIKE to even try some live plants for the first time ever.

That being said, however, I am stupidly picky when it comes to Bettas, and I like the color green, pastels, marbles, and contrast, as well as purple. Chard was kind enough to show me this girl:








Who I will be getting with the above boy, however, as much as I love marble, it's not really part of the goal I envision, so she'll likely just be a pet.
I bought this fish for breeding purposes:








(Seller's photo)
As I was thinking she'd help enhance the purple, while reducing the black lair for pastels, and keeping red-wash at bay as her fins appear to have a light yellow color.
I plan to purchase these two females when I get paid on Friday:








(Breeder photo. To keep spread while maintain black finnage...that bit of redwash may pose issues, but hopefully not TOO many)
and








(Breeder photo. Best form fin-wise of the ladies. Keeps fins and ma help spread of iri, but color is a bit off.)

HOWEVER, I'm aiming for 5-6 females, and I want the rest to simply be fish I ENJOY for the time being.
...And I fell in love with this one, thinking it was a girl:
















(Seller photos)
And I love it SO MUCH despite the flaws in form etc...BUT it ma be a BOY, meaning i still need 1-2 more fish from my tank. Particularly of the Greenish or just FUN variety.
I'm trying t avoid out of country sellers, since the shipping is 35 dollars, and my only out of country import was Chumani(My avatar. She passed almost exactly a year ago after years of companionship) , and it feels WEIRD and even wrong to ever order another female that way...at least for now.

Sadly, the US breeder options sadly look very limited currently, particularly for female bettas on aquabid. I have had better luck finding more American breeders selling females on Ebay, however, I have found that there is a higher number of fish being sold there with RT, x-factor scaling, lumpy bodies or even deformities with spine issues.

Needless to say; it's been hard.
Possibilities I'm looking into:
LIVE WHITE DUMBO HALFMOON PLAKAT FEMALE BETTA FISH | eBay

Live Betta 5* Plakat Fighter Female (77) | eBay

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettashmp1507541425 - The Dragon HM PK FM# A207 - Ends: Mon Oct 9 2017 - 04:30:25 AM CDT
(If only he were REALLY a female...sadly, jus a male with an eggspot that's been mislabeled)

AquaBid.com - Item # fwbettashmp1507648203 - 17092502 Blue Marble Female - Ends: Tue Oct 10 2017 - 10:10:03 AM CDT
(INTERNAL SCREAMING)


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm thinking that last one is a boy. Beautiful anyway!


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@ThatFishThough

Yeah, lot's of folks on here seem to think so as well. I'll have to see how it responds to other bettas when it get's here, however.

I really do like that fishes coloring, and the wild-type iridescence, and if it had a just a bit of a wider dorsal, and a longer, more pointed anal, it'd be SUCH a lovely traditional plakat.

(Also, if I may, I love your username).


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Haha. Thanks; I had no clue what to put for my username when one of my friends walked in my room and went "Wow! That FISH though! It's so SHINY!" So I called myself ThatFishThough or TFT.  May I ask, what does your username represent? I first saw it as "AngelIza" but then though maybe "AngeLiza" or it could be something completely different, lol.

I forget what they're called, but I love the black dots on his cadual and dorsal. I call him a he because I can't see ovaries behind his ventrals and his ventrals are too long to be female. I think he would look nice paired with a PK female with a sharper anal, like you said. Are you going to breed each of these individual females to that male? Or are you going to use one, then use the rest for a sorority?


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@ThatFishThough

I don't mind it! Angeliza (pronounced Ann-hill-lee-sa, as my mother is hispanic) was the name my mother WANTED to give me as a baby. It was Shortened to "Aliza", but I still use it as my email, and I thought I'd use it as my username here. (This account was made a few years ago. Had I made it recently, I probably would have but my UN as "FluffPuffN" since that's my username almost EVERYWHERE. X'D)

I beleive those dots are called "wild markings", not sure, but I love'em <3.

As for the Females: I'd say 3 are for breedign to the first male, Mr. Purple eyes.

For the second one, whether male or female, I would love to improove the form of the fins as per traditional plakat form rules, add dragon to the mix to thicken and get better spread of the iridescence of the body, and overall, improove and enhance that "green" to be more GREEN. Sadly, that's way easier said then done!
X'D

Regardless, however, I'd LOVE some green or nice fancy females for my sorority...so please let me know if you see any you think I may like! Personally, some of the best greens I've seen seem to come from metallic or dragon batches. I'm pretty sure that it's technically turquoise, but the metallic layer ontop makes it appear more green.

(Maybe a copper orchid or a copper-black female hmpk would be good for mystery fish, if it's a he...?)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The only thing that concerns me personally is that sororities can become very violent or you'll end up with sick fish. It's rare for a sorority to actually work out for a few years. Most only stay up for a year before someone gets deathly sick.

In the wild (as I was mentioning on your other post) even females Bettas do not hang out together. Bettas only come together to breed and then the male sends the female on her way once the deed is done and he has his eggs to tend to and defend. So putting a bunch of females together is, very often, the same as throwing a bunch of males together. More often, I've had females from AquaBid be a lot more aggressive than the females I've found here. I've done a sorority twice now and never again. It's much easier on you and the fish to keep them separate or housed with other types of fish.

Green is a color that technically does not exist in Betta's and most fish. It has to do with their color layers, same as purple. But we can make a color that can look like these two under certain lights, purple is easier to achieve as far as I've seen. Green is often what they call a Turquoise fish, Turquoise can look blue in one light and green in sunlight or natural light, usually indirect light. So it's there but not in the different lighting situations.

What size is this tank going to be?

Some other small fish you could look into:
Purple Harlequin Rasbora
Ember Tetra
Gold Neon Tetra (close to yellow)
Guppies come in almost all colors, could do four males easily, one of each color
Emerald Corydoras catfish)


It's not typical to find a fish just one color usually so there won't be a perfect Hogwarts tank for you unfortunately. Even for bettas if you were to still go with girls, you can't just have 4 fish. You need at least 5 and over to spread out the aggression. I highly recommend using a 20 gallon long, not a 10.

If you do look into other fish, do get at least groups of each of the schoolers, you can't have just one of each of the schoolers. You could do one of each of the Guppies as they typically aren't as socially needy as schoolers are. Try not to mix livebearers unless you know they're males; they can inbreed. If you do guppies, you could do a nice small 10 gallon for them and do some bottom catfish as well like Corydoras Habrosus or Pygmeaus, nice small catfish.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@lilnaugrim Thank you for replying again!

The "green"-est color I've seen on bettas is really a metallic turquoise.^^

As mentioned in my first post, I'm thinking to start with 5, or preferably 6 females. This WILL be done in a 20 long, and I am planning to plant it, and put many peices of driftwood in it to create a great many nooks and crannies for the girls to both explore, and isolate themselves from one another in. I am well aware that sororities can't truly be maintained for long periods of time, however, it should hold for the year or so I need to find my own place, where I will have more room to myself then my bedroom. (Which is about half the size that my college dorm room was.)

While bettas in the wild are not together long, neither are the as aggressive as the ones we keep. Many bettas can be kept together without killing each other...just not the domesticated betta. This is due to years of being bred for aggression in order to fight one another etc. While the males were kept in bottles, females were often kept together in ponds. Since that happened for over 600 years, both that tendency, and the aggression became deeply ingrained in these fish. Hence why sororities are even REMOTELY possible. I'm not going to go TOO into detail since I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. I'm sure you are far more experienced and knowledgable in this then I am...I simply want you to know that I am a bit better informed then someone who just wants to see aaaaall the pretty fishies in a big tank, and expects nothing but sunshine and rainbows out of it. XD
These girls will be given a great deal of attention, and females causing trouble will be quickly removed for a "time out". If they are repeatedly aggressive, the they will be removed altogether.

The fish I'm thinking to suggest to my sister are:
Jellybean Tetras
Neon Green Rasboras
Neon blue rasboras/false neons
and ember tetras.
All kept in groups of 5-6.

I HAVE had Rasboras and tetras before, and if they're around the same size, they will even school together...which would look AWESOME with them all swimming around a "castle" tank decoration. However, it would be equally awesome if they mostly stay in their separate groups.

Thank you very much for commenting and for the suggestions! I honestly hadn't thought of Corydoras before. Thank you.^^

(If my elder sister's track record with petcare was better, I would get her a large tank with a "Hairy Puffer")
XD


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

angeliza said:


> @*lilnaugrim* Thank you for replying again!
> 
> The "green"-est color I've seen on bettas is really a metallic turquoise.^^
> 
> As mentioned in my first post, I'm thinking to start with 5, or preferably 6 females. This WILL be done in a 20 long, and I am planning to plant it, and put many peices of driftwood in it to create a great many nooks and crannies for the girls to both explore, and isolate themselves from one another in. I am well aware that sororities can't truly be maintained for long periods of time, however, it should hold for the year or so I need to find my own place, where I will have more room to myself then my bedroom. (Which is about half the size that my college dorm room was.)



Great! Sounds like a good plan. And I definitely can understand space restriction, it's difficult to work around!



angeliza said:


> While bettas in the wild are not together long, neither are the as aggressive as the ones we keep. Many bettas can be kept together without killing each other...just not the domesticated betta. This is due to years of being bred for aggression in order to fight one another etc. While the males were kept in bottles, females were often kept together in ponds. Since that happened for over 600 years, both that tendency, and the aggression became deeply ingrained in these fish. Hence why sororities are even REMOTELY possible. I'm not going to go TOO into detail since I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. I'm sure you are far more experienced and knowledgable in this then I am...I simply want you to know that I am a bit better informed then someone who just wants to see aaaaall the pretty fishies in a big tank, and expects nothing but sunshine and rainbows out of it. XD
> These girls will be given a great deal of attention, and females causing trouble will be quickly removed for a "time out". If they are repeatedly aggressive, the they will be removed altogether.



Heh...okay, some new info for you!


We've actually been keeping Betta splendens only since 1892. That's only 125 years of breeding.


We actually haven't bred out aggression, or at least most of those breeding. They were originally bred FOR aggression due to the fights that we held for them. The strongest fish that lasted the longest won and then was bred for his champion genes. Betta splendens HAVE to be aggressive in order to spawn, if they lack this, they have no interest in spawning. One of the members here a long time ago bred Betta's for placidity and after a while, they would no longer breed future generations. So there has to be some aggression for them to breed.


You are correct that many Betta can be kept together, but they are different species. Even some wild betta's are much too aggressive. Most of the Splendens complex do not do overly well being housed together, especially in a smaller tank size. B. Imbellis would be the least aggressive out of that complex. But those of the coccina complex or the Albimarginata complex are able to live in families together in a decent sized tank (40B or so ideally for the larger species). But just because one cousin can do something doesn't mean the other can.


Females are often jarred as well due to their own aggression. Most of the time, they're more aggressive than the males lol. Some breeders keep all their fish in ponds, some use all jars, it's all a matter of preference.


But you are right in your path at least. Keeping a close eye is a very good idea, as are time outs. So you're on the right track, I just wanted to give you some more info so you can understand my hesitancy is all. I'm not trying to totally dissuade from a sorority, I just don't think it's a best idea for a classroom is all. Some of the kids might be very discouraged when they come in to see their favorite female in shreds or sick. I know my mom is very attached to my fish even though they aren't hers or in her space at all. She gets very sad when my fish die.




angeliza said:


> The fish I'm thinking to suggest to my sister are:
> Jellybean Tetras
> Neon Green Rasboras
> Neon blue rasboras/false neons
> ...


I like the idea of Harry Puffer lol, that's great.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@lilnaugrim That's how long they've been in the aquarium hobby. In 1800, the king of Siam began to TAX betta fighting, and money made off of those bets due to how prevalent it was, and how good it was at making money. I read 600 somewhere when I was reading a thing by someone figuring out the origins of the modern domesticated betta splenden...but yeah. It's probably CLOSER to 125, at least. X'D

Most wild type bettas seem to be far more peaceful however, and crosses between domestics and them seem to also be a bit more docile in many studies I've seen...so regardless of the lentgh of time, being kept and bred as "fighting fish" seems to have affected domesticated bettas. So while WILDS can be kept together to varying extents, the domesticated bettas is more of a CHALLANGE. XD

(Speaking of wilds, however, I would love to keep guitars and/or malachai some day. Alas, they need more space, and space is what I lack. I also have a love of the wild form, and personally feel that the traditional plakat form should strive to be more like it. Rounded tails, long pointed anals, slender bodies, etc. HOWEVER, that is neither here nor there. XD)

SO INSTEAD, CAN I PLEASE HAVE OPINIONS ON THESE FEMALES I AM REALLY TEMPTED TO SHELL OUT THE MONEY FOR?








Would be the most expensive gal in the tank...but what can I say?
Pastel green fins?
Purply pineappling?
GIANT FROO-FROO EARS???
<3
(My concern is that those pectorals are 100% likely to get chomped, and her ruffly tail because being rosetail in an aggressive tank may be bad...she may move slower and get MORE chomped).

And also CHARD
HOW DARE
HE TAUNT ME
WITH THIS:








AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


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## DZIM (Oct 20, 2015)

Love that last one. She looks like a female version of my male half-moon, Overcast. Imagine the incredible fry they'd produce!

...color-wise, anyway. Overcast's top line is a little messed up, so I wouldn't breed him. But man, do I have a weakness for pale bettas.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@DZIM

Oh my he _is_ lovely!
He looks to have a bit of dragon scaling as well!^^

I love pastels...but I prefer a more solid pastel. Opaques, for example, are tecnically pastels, but far less transparent.
My idea pastel is a light, but solid color...but that's just me! Honestly, your boy _rocks_ the transparent areas on his fins...it seems to almost be in a bit of a butterfly pattern...? Hard to tell when he's in a cup. X'D


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## DZIM (Oct 20, 2015)

I love any betta that's either white, or white with a combination of pale colors. My other white betta, Mellow, used to have pastel blues/purples in his tail, but over time his colored areas have turned from pale to very bright and rich. Can't say I'm disappointed though... 

I would highly encourage you to get the pale girl with the blue fins, but I am super biased. I think she's great.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

That first male also has a horrible spoon head. Which is difficult to breed out. An interesting aside: The members of a fighting forum where I lurk prefer spoon heads in their fighters because they have a better and longer bite.

Why don't you contact Richard (Chard) and ask him what he would charge your for six or so sibling females? If you like them and they haven't been separated they would be an easier sorority.


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## DZIM (Oct 20, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> That first male also has a horrible spoon head. Which is difficult to breed out. An interesting aside: The members of a fighting forum where I lurk prefer spoon heads in their fighters because they have a better and longer bite.


Does the spoon head cause harm to the betta, or is it just discouraged as an aesthetics thing? I actually don't mind how it looks.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@DZIM
Marbles are fun like that! I once had a pinkish-purplish salamander girl once with a light blue wash on her fins...it was _so_ pretty, and even stayed that way.^^

Salamander is more so a type of multi then a marble, but those light colors are just so wonderful. I wish there was a way to spread it over the whole fish...

...here, I'll get a picture to show you;

























And ikr, about the EE gal! The worst part is; (The _only_ thing keeping me from buying her before was that I cannot do anymore shopping online until I get paid on friday, and her auction ended today...
Well, the seller extended it.
To _Saturday_.
My will is too weak for this.
Help.
@RussellTheShihTzu my apologies! I started replying to Dzims posts before you posted so I didn't see your's until now!
Thank you for pointing out flaws with his body...I tend to notice coloring and tail spread first on males. I better notice form both of fin and of body on females, and on plakat males, since the fins are less distracting. X'D

I wouldn't call it horrible, however...it just seems to be emphasized by the way he's arching to flare, or the angle of the camera...? Idk. I'll have to see him in real life to determine the level of badness his spoonhead is.

Spoonheadedness and it's difficulty to breed out and all, wouldn't starting with a line that already carries this spoonheaded genes only make breeding it out harder? From a breeding standpoint, at least.

As for my original reason before the spoon was pointed out; I like color, and variety, and I will likely suffer because of it. X'D


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

DZIM said:


> Does the spoon head cause harm to the betta, or is it just discouraged as an aesthetics thing? I actually don't mind how it looks.


The International Betta Congress is the world organization for Betta with the goal of improving Betta splendens. Local clubs hold shows and breeders are supposed to adhere to the established standard when breeding. The IBC show standards cover conformation, patterns and colors. I'd have to look it up but I believe a spoon head is a disqualifying fault.

As a pet they are fine; I've had them. But if one is breeding with the goal of improving Betta (or a dog breed or a horse breed) then one doesn't introduce such a fault into a line. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to use a poor example when breeding when there are better specimens out there. :dunno:

Of course, you're talking to someone who deplores what the pet market has done to the Shih Tzu by trying to breed them down to smaller than what was intended. This has brought about poor quality, sickly, ragged looking specimens with so many genetic problems. So I'm already carrying prejudice against willy-nilly breeding. ;-)

@angeliza I don't know about Betta because I don't breed. But I do know that in dogs if a line has a fault you have to outcross (and pray) to get rid of it. Some faults are harder to breed out than others. Somewhere I have an article on how many generations it takes to "clean up" various faults so the chances of them popping up are less than 1%.

PS: He also has what I think are called bent rays; I don't know if that's genetic or not? If you're thinking about getting and breeding him you might want to post his photo in the Breeding section and ask what a female would have to have to balance him out.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@RussellTheShihTzu
I am currently not breeding for show standards, simply personal preference and for my local small-time petstore...but I understand your point. Breeding should always be done with the best intentions, and the best of a species in mind, not meerly for finacial gain. Making toy dogs "teacup" sized, for example, is a terrible pratice, not only in breeding, but in some of the actions takin in general. It may just be a rumor...but I have heard of breeders inducing early labor, or having c-sections performed on pregnant dogs in order to MAKE the pups premature, so that they stay small and stunted etc. This also causes serious health problems, and the entire thing is awful. I am with you on that.

I am breeding with a goal in mind, and that goal involves improoving that vivid violet color into a more full "orchid" pattern, and then getting it onto a lighter bodied fish. He's a perfect fish for that, since bettas eyes tend to give away their color genes, and his are noticably purple, at least in pictures. And if memory serves; Chard's fish are always better in person. My goal is color foremest, fins secondly, and now, getting rid of that spoon will also be kept him mind when choosing future pairs.
The very first "Shih Tzu" or the dogs chosen to create the Shih Tzu breed were likely not perfect examples of the breed. Everything needs to start somewhere, and I promise you my intentions are only to improve.
Maybe someday, I'll get them to a level to enter in shows.^^


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I've been in dogs a long time...almost as long as I've been in fish. Inducing premature puppies does not stunt their growth; I've watched premature litters grow up to be full size and finishable in the conformation ring and performance events. I've also seen many a "runt" wind up the largest puppy in the litter. For anyone who doesn't know, runts are usually the product of of several, several breedings over several days and are the result of later conception.

The Shih Tzu, and all breeds, come from combining the *best* representatives of several different breeds until, through careful, breeding the resultant offspring are consistent. Research shows inferior specimens were never used. In poodles they introduced Maltese to eventually create stability in white. The Maltese they used were excellent representatives of their breed as were the poodles. I started showing with poodles. 

I have too much information pinging around in my head!


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@RussellTheShihTzu

Thank you so much for all the information! 

I had clothes to wash last night, and put together a badly photoshopped version of a picture of my breeding goals. X'D
Looking at it now, I can see what I intended, but this is a poorly photoshopped mess. I'd probably have a better image of what I had in mind if I drew it myself. X'D
I may do so, if I find the time. I am of the beleif that it helps to have a physical reminder of where one wishes to go around to remind them, and prevent discouragement.

I have decided that I am DEFINITLY getting Miss. Floopy ears, and if she does not fare well in the sorority, I will take her out and put her in her own tank right away. (For all I know, she's a very tough girl and the other females won't mess with her...personality has a big part in this, and every fish is different etc).


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

The pictures you posted will unlikely produce any green. The irids are what I call "poor" irids (notice that the irids do not cover the whole body- lack of "spread" genes). And if they are all from Chard, they might have been overly inbred - spoon head, bent topline (pastel female). 

If you plan to breed that male, you need to buy pairings from a different source and hopfully fix those defects. . . . I'm not talking about show or pet forms. I'm concerned about general form to improve their lives. . . . I won't go into detail on genetics - not atm anyway. Post in breeding, and we could discuss more options.

As for sororities, it all depends on the individual character of each tenant. One general rule: stress = aggression (too much disturbance, late water change, late feeding, bad water parameter, etc). I would suggest buying all tenants at once - not one at a time. They will most probably fight to create a pecking order. Once that's over, they should be able to get along IF not stressed. . . . In other words, I would not keep sororities in a class room - where children may stress them - unless you keep them in a gigantic long tank (example; 5 -7 bettas in a 50g long)

Remove any that are too aggressive and constantly chase and bite others. These will maintain aggression in your tank and risk diseases.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@indjo

Sorry for the confusion! The sorority will be going in my room, where I can keep an eye on it, not a classroom. Additionally, the "Going for green" In the title is just a catchy way of saying that I'm looking for more females with green in my sorority.

The breeding goal with sir purple eyes was to get more of a black-orchid pattern, possibly with more iridescence on the body as well, in that vivid violet he seemed to have...however, he came in today, and well...
...either I was sold an entirely different fish, or I was sold a marble who was not labelled as a marble with absolutely no warning from the seller. X'D
(My own fault, honestly...I should have asked more questions).

This is the male Betta I received today;
















(He did a number on his tail during shipping...split down the middle and bites EVERYWHERE. O.O)

I will be re-thinking my plan, and my choice of females for my sorority. X'D

However, I will say that my choice of females to spawn him to all came from different sources and all had perfectly round heads etc. I will be happy to post in breeding once I have the fishy base with which to do so.^^


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

That doesn't appear to be the same male unless it's the angle of your photo. Spoon heads do not "disappear" like that. They're there to stay.

I dose Seachem StressGuard daily 14-21 days when I receive Betta that have bitten while in transit. Have not had any continue biting.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@russeltheshihtzu

Thank you for the advice! Luckily, I had already put some medication for such things in the water the night before just incase this happened! He does have a VERY slight spoon head but along with the very different colors, his body seems thinner then the fish in the photos, and, once more, there was nothing about the fish I purchased being a marble.

I'm waiting to hear back from the breeder, but he DID mention in his last message that due to the Post Office being closed on Monday, he had a LOT of orders to send out on Tuesday, when he sent out my fish. It may have simply of been a bit of a mix up.^^


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## DZIM (Oct 20, 2015)

Agreeing with Russell on this one. Are you sure that's the same fish? The colors and patterning look completely different. The shape of the head is different as well.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

There's also something wrong with the scales on the male you received. They remind me of the scaling you see on an 'x-factor' betta (relates to rosetails). Personally with those faults I wouldn't be using him as breeding stock. 

Personally I do not like the form on most of Chard's fish. You can find fish of that calibre in any pet or fish store. If I am buying from a breeder, I want high-quality, healthy fish.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@DZIM

I don't think so at all. I'm pretty sure I received a different fish.
@LittleBettaFish

I have respect for Chard as a breeder. Yes, the fish I received has X-factor scaling, but the one I ordered did not. I do not think he would ever intentionally sell someone a fish with such a large fault, especially on Aquabid. That is why I am pretty sure that this is some sort of mix-up due to how many shipments he was sending out on the same day.^^

For now, "Grumpyfish", as I have dubbed the sulky boy, is swimming about in a medicated 10 gallon with an indian almond leaf to help keep the water clean while he heals up and de-stressed after being shipped.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

angeliza said:


> @*LittleBettaFish*
> 
> I have respect for Chard as a breeder. Yes, the fish I received has X-factor scaling, but the one I ordered did not. I do not think he would ever intentionally sell someone a fish with such a large fault, especially on Aquabid. That is why I am pretty sure that this is some sort of mix-up due to how many shipments he was sending out on the same day.^^
> 
> For now, "Grumpyfish", as I have dubbed the sulky boy, is swimming about in a medicated 10 gallon with an indian almond leaf to help keep the water clean while he heals up and de-stressed after being shipped.


As much as Chard's fish have nice coloring, he does absolutely sell fish with major faults. I've seen plenty over the years. He used to be a member here as well and we used to chat. He's a nice guy, does business well, but his fish are not quality at all when it comes to breeding stock. He breeds very nice pet fish though.


I do have to say though, just because a fish is sold on AquaBid, doesn't mean it's automatically good quality ^_^ there are a few sellers on there that their fish are not good or are often mislabeled. EmmyGolf says her fish are giants but they aren't. Phusit's fish sometimes have obvious deformities. Colors are mislabeled all the time. So, it's not like a jewelry store compared to Wal-Mart jewelry where the store would have higher quality and they are typically experts.


But looks like that guy is a sibling to the one you ordered at least. Looked like the same fish (top pic won't load for me), but the whites on the ventral are different. And of course, everything else that you all pointed out. But, if it's a sibling, then you know the X-factor also runs through that line as well which is unfortunate.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> <<snip>>I do have to say though, just because a fish is sold on AquaBid, doesn't mean it's automatically good quality ^_^ there are a few sellers on there that their fish are not good or are often mislabeled. EmmyGolf says her fish are giants but they aren't. Phusit's fish sometimes have obvious deformities. Colors are mislabeled all the time. So, it's not like a jewelry store compared to Wal-Mart jewelry where the store would have higher quality and they are typically experts. <<snip>>


Good gawd, ain't that the truth? I've seen so many awful examples of Betta go for high prices on AquaBid just *because* it's AquaBid....usually sold to people who are only interested in color and long fins and care for/see nothing else. :frustrated: I've even seen seriously deformed fish (not just Betta) touted as "unique" and "one-of-a-kind" that sell to the unknowing...or people who feel badly for the poor things.


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## angeliza (Sep 5, 2015)

@lilnaugrim @RussellTheShihTzu

I agree that deformed fish are sold on aquabid, as well as some more pet-store quality fish. Additionally, while looking for females, I've found at LEAST 4 fish who are very clearly males marked Female by Emmygolf, as well as other mislabels. X'D

The green/black probably-a-boy came in this morning, and he's SO TINY.
He's like, an inch long bodywise, but his body is very long, but slender. Grumpyfish has been moved to a large jar that will be getting daily water changes and medication while he heals up, while "Babyfish", as I've taken to calling him, has his run of the 10 gallon. I'm much less attached to a fish I did not feel I've ordered who has terrible x factor scales and a... grumpy, sulky personality.
I mean, it may be due to stress from shipping, but the girl shipped with him has been FINE...? It could be the fin damage to, but he's just...bleh.

Also Babyfish has the TINIEST of flares.

Update: Chard messaged me back: Purple Eyes is infact Grumpyfish, and "MAY" have marble genes.
=V=;


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