# I've rescued a Betta and need help



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

Hello, I am new to this. I have recently rescued a Betta on Monday. He was in a gallon tank at work. The owner put some type of small frog in the tank on a Friday and Monday his tail looked chewed on so she took the frog out. Then the fish started getting white patches, so we bought ich medication and some other stuff. Each time the tank was cleaned the next day the water was cloudy. The fish quit eating about a week ago, his lips were swollen, eyes were huge and cloudy and he just lays on his plant. They gave up on him but I refused to, so I brought him home. I bought a 5 gallon tank yesterday, with pump, filter and heater and all new stuff. I was told to only use Distilled water to fill it. The water was clear until today. Then I read not to use Distilled water which scared me so I took out about a gallon of water and replaced it with tap water and added the conditioner. His eyes are almost back to normal now, but he isn't active. He stays at the top of the tank in the corner. Please help I don't want him to die.
He's been on Ick drops and Melafix for about 2 weeks. This past Monday I started him on Fungas Clear Fizz Tabs and the Start Zyme. Today I did a 50% water change. I am new to this please help.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh goodness, the poor thing!

Okay first things first, don't use distilled water and glad you did stop using it for the conditioner. Basically warm clean water is going to clear up most of his problems.

Stop using Melafix, it also eventually coats their labyrinth organ and will suffocate him!

It sounds like he's got a fungus infection. Does his eyes still pop out and are his lips still swollen? It would be great if you could get a few pictures of him up in different angles for us to determine more.

Start Zyme is only supposed to be used at water changes and stuff, it's not a medicine like the Fungus Clear tabs are so if you're using it daily, you don't have to 

But with anything I'm going to suggest getting a quarantine bowl, you can use brand new plastic ware that has never seen soap (soap is very toxic to fish) or you can get a critter keeper at walmart or something for only 6 dollars or something. But you're going to float him in the 5 gallon to keep him warm and you're going to have to change the water out 100% daily to help him get better.

But I will hold off on instructions for medicines until I see some pictures and better determine what he might have  Until them, just warm clean water. You don't have to do 50% changes on the 5 gallon everyday unless you really want to, but just make sure you don't leave food in for it to rot and cause more problems


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)




----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)




----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

His eyes and lips are doing much better. I can't keep the water clear. I'm not feeding him because he wont eat. I tried one pellet today and it was still floating when I got home from work so I removed it. So only use Start Zyme if I do 100% water change and not a 50% right? But I should use a water conditioner for the 50%? And only use the Ick drops and the fungus tabs?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

His eye is not white, only has a small white dot


----------



## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Scoobie,

1) Do you know the water temp?

2) Always use the appropriate amount of StartZyme for the NEW water when doing water changes. Tap water contains chlorine and other disinfectants. Water conditioner neutralizes/removes these.
For example, say the bottle says to add 10 mL per every 10 gal of water. If you are adding 1 gal of water to the tank, you would add 1 mL of StartZyme to the new water. (1 mL is about 20 drops.) 

3) Tap water is better than distilled water. Tap water contains electrolytes that are needed for your betta's health (and for our health, too).

4) There is a lot of controversy about Melafix (and other -fix meds). They contains oils, which may coat the betta's labryinth (breathing organ) and make it difficult for them to breathe. Until more info is know, I would try to avoid them. Also, since he's been on it for 2 weeks, I would say it doesn't seem to be doing much at this point.

5) Does he still have white "dots?" If not, I would stop the Ich meds since he's been on it for 2 weeks. 

6) Do the Jungle Fungus Clear Fizz tabs contain nitrofurazone, furazolidone and potassium dichromate? 
If so, this is effective for many bacterial infections that affect fish. I would keep using this. If you have a filter though, remove the carbon from it. The carbon neutralizes the medicine.

7) What type of pellets are you feeding him? 
The two most often recommended pellets on this forum are New Life Spectrum (NLS) Betta pellets and Omega One Betta Buffet pellets. They contain quality proteins, and bettas tend to like them.
Another way to entice them to eat is to soak the pellet in garlic.

8) Is he having problems with his buoyancy? (Or does he just like being near the surface?) If he's having trouble swimming, you can lower the water level so that he can reach the surface more easily.

9) It sounds like his eyes and lips aren't as swollen now. That's good! Does he look bloated at all? If so, let us know, as he might benefit from having a small amount of Epsom salt added. (Let us know though, and we can tell you how to use this.)


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, LittleBlueFishlets is right bout all that 

Every time you add new water from tap you should add a conditioner. Some of the more popular conditioners are Prime (from SeaChem), API Tap Water Conditioner and any StressCoat items you see. Those will help remove metals and chlorine from your water that can be harmful to your fish 

Other things like Start Zyme, Start Safe or Aqua Safe are basically bacteria in a bottle that can help with the cycling process but I never use them if I'm trying to help a fish and in a smaller environment. So there's really not any need to be using them if you are doing water changes more frequently than just a week.

But other than that you seem to be on the right track! Oh also, don't leave the pellet in if he doesn't eat it within the first 3 to 5 minutes, otherwise it will rot and make his water dirty which allows for more infections and stuff. You could try a pellet before you go to work and then one later after you get home to see if he will eat it.

And as LittleBlueFishlets said, you can try smashing a garlic clove and soaking the pellets in that to see if it makes it tastier for your Betta, or you could pre-soak the pellets in some conditioned water to make them soft first and see if he'll take it then.

And I think that's all I have for now  Keep us posted for sure!


----------



## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

@lilnaugrim - The OP has a 5 gal tank with a filter. I figured the StartZyme was being used to initiate a cycle. It also does the "usual" conditioner work too (neutralizes/removes chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals)..... 

As for the food, I don't like presoaking in water as this leaches out water soluble nutrients, reducing the quality of the food. Instead, I use a fingernail to break up the food into smaller pieces.

I agree with removing uneaten food. If the he doesn't consume it within the first few minutes, I would remove it. Then try again later with new food. You could also try a different type or brand of food. (Most bettas seem to like New Life Spectrum and Omega One Betta Buffet pellets.)


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh, whoops I missed that sorry ><

That's very interesting, I must have a bad one then because it doesn't do that lol

Sorry, I was jumping to conclusions in my last post, you can ignore it if you like haha


----------



## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

From Tetra's website:

_" Start Zyme combines all the benefits of a complete water conditioner to make your water immediately safe for tropical fish, Goldfish, and marine fish. Instantly neutralizes harmful chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals to make tap water safe. Stimulates the natural protective slime coat to reduce stress and help fish heal wounds. Start Zyme also contains a safe blend of bacteria and enzymes to help establish the biological cycle and break down organic sludge to ensure a healthy and clean aquarium. "_


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh I have the Jungle Start Zyme, doesn't say that on the bottle. Very interesting! Thank you for the info


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

Ok, so I changed his water. Since I added the fungas tablet, water conditioner and 2 drops of ick. Can I add the carbon back to the filter? He's still not active and just floating, but he's not in the corner floating tonight.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)




----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)




----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

As long as you are medicating I believe that carbon should stay out until you are completely done dosing.
He does look better in these pictures, he doesn't look as clamped up which is good!


----------



## Somethingstoofishy (Apr 1, 2013)

Poor thing!!!!Did they use soap???I will get mad if they used soap...it is very bad and poisonous to them


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

So what are all these bubbles? They just started today. The pump has not been changed.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)




----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He's probably blowing a small bubble nest, it's for when they breed. The male will place the eggs in the bubbles so they stay safe. But males do it randomly from time to time because they can or they get bored or they want to mate  They are a good sign usually.

Does he swim around a lot yet or does he just float up at the top?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

he's still just floating around. does this mean he's getting better? I did a 100% water change yesterday. Do I need to do a 25 or 50% today?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

No soap that I'm aware of.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't think you need to do that many unless the meds you are using call for it. So what stuff are you using now for him?

And floating probably doesn't mean he's getting better, if he were swimming around then I would say so. I mean, some Betta's are lazy and just sit around all day but given his history I think he's just on the slow path to a recovery


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

he is on the Fungus Clear Fizz tablets. When I changed his water yesterday I added the fizz tablet and 2 drops of Ick drops. Should I add the Aquarium Salt? He swims very little. But today he started making bubbles.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

Please help me. Now he has 2 white bumps on top of his head they look like sores.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, I'm going to need some pictures for that.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

lilnaugrim i was thinking to recommend aqaurium salt?
Also I read one of the Sakura thread where she wrote that if you combine Furan-2 and Kanaplex it makes extremely powerful drug combination for the gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Not sure if those drug can be found in the stores right away though. Or if any of those two may be can be founded easily?
How about Triple sulfa also anti bacterial medication that control a wide range of pathogenic bacterial infection?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I was waiting until he got some more pictures up or answered some of my previous questions.

But yes, you are correct of the Furan-2 and Kanaplex. However I'm not experienced in most meds beyond the basics at the moment so I can't comment too in depth. 

But I don't think we ever actually determined what was wrong with him in the first place? Unless I'm missing something when I reread everything to refresh my mind.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes but he was treated with fungus medication and ick medication. His eye also was swollen and got better, he is not bloated, his scales not raised . So he has some kind of bacteria infection going on. Also want to find out about those 2 white bumps. If it not ick which i hope it not since it bumps and how i understand he is not darting, rubbing against anything we can rule out ick. So it some kind of bacteria which Furan, kanaplex would help. And i was reading a lot of post from Sakura and find out that you even can mix those together and make more powerful drug combinatiion. But the only thing i am not sure if you can easily find them right away in the store though.
Also if scoobie finished with last dose of fungal medication and he is not better i think it good idea to start him on aquarium salt until we can figure out what is next step or scoobie can find those medications. 
Also if scoobie can't find those med's Maracyn 1 &2 in combo for gram positive and gram negative bacteria. But Maracyn's don't work in high ph.
Triple sulfa also anti-bacterial medication that controls a wide range of pathogenic bacterial infection.
There is a few thread started by scoobie. This is another one 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=168586


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sure sure, yeah I think the Furan-2 and Kanaplex is a good way to go. I know Furan-2 usually readily available in my Petsmart, but there are probably different stores down in Kentucky.

And thanks for showing the other thread, I was not aware there was another one started. It looks like you've already got him going on the right track there.

I'm no good when it comes down to triple sulfa and any of the gram positive/negative things, I need to do more reading about those before I feel comfortable suggesting them.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well i am not an expert just also learning from reading, a lot of reading


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup! Best kind of help you can get  I almost always google things before I ask any sort of question because I find that I might actually answer my own question haha. Anyway, getting off topic to the thread, hopefully scoobie will follow your help! It looked like good advice on the other thread


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Just was thinking he was treated with two different medications for the short period of time. I am thinking if those tow white are the same and not getting bigger or spread on the body, if he is not darting or rubbing against anything , if he is not bloated and his scales not raised , pine coning when you look from the top, it good idea to start him on 2tsp/gall of aquarium salt. Pre mix and make sure it dissolved before you put it in his tank.


----------



## Randi b (May 13, 2013)

Is he eating yet ?


----------



## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

sorry bump just want to know outcome. Good luck


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

scoobie if you will treat him with aquarium salt pre mix 3 tsp/gall and make sure it dissolved. Do daily water changes see if it helps. Aquarium salt has antibacterial/anti fungal . It also helps to balance his electrolyte level and encourage the production of slime coat,which will in turn help protect him from infection. 
Make sure you acclimate him really slowly to the new water.


----------



## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

If you do the aquarium salt, make sure you get the labeled aquarium salt and no other. 

Slowly add in a cup full of pre disolved salt water at a time over the course of a day or two to acclimate him to the water change. Don't just put him straight into the full dose of salt water, it could make him sicker. Don't treat him for longer than 10 days with the high dose of aquarium salt.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

I changed his water again today. I only added the Jungle Start Zyme, Aquarium Salt and the Tetra Aqua Safe. Well he is now laying in the bottom of the tank not moving much...so I panicked and quickly removed most of the water and replaced it and only added the Aqua Safe now he is on the top again but breathing hard. I am so upset what is wrong with him and I'm killing him?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

5.4.13








5.14.13


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Did you acclimate ? I am at work and don't have a lot of access to the computer i am going to pm LittleBlueFishlets since she was also helping her and i know she on line i think so wait, don't log out.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

those white bumps are they got bigger ? What is the temperature in the tank right now? Sometimes heavy breathing can be due to gill flukes. How much of the aquarium salt did you add, did you acclimate him to the new temperature? You saying that heavy breathing just happened after water change?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

His laying in the bottom started after the 100% water change. Then I replaced about 3 gallons and then he floated up to the top that's when I noticed his breathing was heavier. The water temp is 78 that is what it stays at. I just checked on him and he is laying in the bottom again. He floats to the top for a little bit then just slowly sinks to the bottom. I know its been at least 30 days since he's eaten. What did you think about the white spots?
After the first water change, he swam straight to the thermometer and kept ramming it..then swam off
I added about 2 1/2 teaspoons of aquarium salt and did acclimate him. The bumps came out of no where, it started with one and today he has 2


----------



## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

If it were not for those bumps, I would recommend epsom salt instead of AQ salt. Unfortunately, I have no clue what those could be. I would PM Sakura8 and ask her to look at this thread.

It sounds like he's got some internal issues. His swim bladder is obviously very irregulated. Honestly, it sounds just like my CT who passed away last wednesday. He always had SBD and floated but a few days before he passed I noticed he would sometimes sink to the bottom and gasp heavily. I had to move him to a QT container so that he could reach the surface.

My CT was also blind though, and we never figured out EXACTLY what caused all his problems. It was merely speculation. At first I thought he was very sick when he went blind and wouldn't eat, lol.

I can't tell you what's causing everything exactly but he obviously has got more than one issue going on right now. It sounds like his immune system is incredibly compromised and it's probably the reason he's getting worse. I don't think it's your fault.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

I just sent a message to Sakura8. Thank you for your help, he's just laying in the bottom in a curved position. I'm afraid he's dying.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi scoobie. I'm glad you were able to help the little guy but unfortunately, he sounds like the conditions he was kept in prior have taken a definite toll on him. From your descriptions of his conditions and of his symptoms before you rescued him, he most likely has extremely severe ammonia poisoning and that has probably pretty much killed any appetite. The ammonia poisoning has probably also led to a secondary bacteria infection and what sounds like possible ich as well.  Poor guy. 

You've been getting some very good advice from everyone so there's not too much I can add. If it looks like he is having some trouble rising to the surface, you may want to lower the water level.

In regards to the floating - if the temperature of the replacement water wasn't similar to the water you took out, this can cause a temporary buoyancy problem that usually corrects itself as the temps equalize. 

I would also suggest switching to epsom salt, 1 tsp per gallon. Magnesium sulfate from the pharmaceutical section of most stores. No added dyes or scents. This will help with his internal problems, which at this moment I think are more serious than any possible ich.


----------



## Randi b (May 13, 2013)

Scoobie see if you can indices him to eat with some bloodworms him not eating is also adding to his not getting any better malnutrition sounds like another one of his problems it couldn't hurt to try they come in the frozen section of your local pet stores just thaw and rinse before you try to give him a few


----------



## Randi b (May 13, 2013)

Also a lot of extra meds in the tank makes it harder for him to breath do you have a good airflow going for him the warmer the water the less oxygen plus meds complicates the O2 in the water


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

I don't want him to die. Yesterday I didn't put any meds in his tank. Only water conditioner and aquarium salt. Today I did add the fungal fizz tablet. He's still at the bottom. I'm afraid he's dying a slow death and he's suffering. But I don't want to think that way I want to keep trying. I even tried putting a pea in the tank last night he doesn't even try or care. I will go get the es and bloodworms today. thank you everyone...Teresa


----------



## aquagreen (May 2, 2013)

Awww, good luck.  This is so awful. Poor baby. You're doing your best, though. Sending you good wishes.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well he is no longer suffering much because of you! You saved him and gave him a better life, if he could talk I'm sure he'd be thanking you. Sometimes they are just too far gone to save them, but knowing that you did all you can to help him is wonderful! I'm not saving give up, not by any means, but at least you are making him as comfortable as you possible can! And that's great of you


----------



## Randi b (May 13, 2013)

Good luck I know they love bloodworms and brine shrimp so if anything will get him to eat one of those should do it keep your head up


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

ok so I've added the es, and tried to feed him the bloodworms..he can care less. I guess now we just wait. Tomorrow, do I take 4 gal out and replace and repeat everything again? When should I see a change? Do you think the white bumps could be Ick again?


----------



## aquagreen (May 2, 2013)

scoobie said:


> ok so I've added the es, and tried to feed him the bloodworms..he can care less. I guess now we just wait. Tomorrow, do I take 4 gal out and replace and repeat everything again? When should I see a change? Do you think the white bumps could be Ick again?


Doing a quick google search, the only fish-related disease I found with "white bumps" was indeed ick.

I'm not a fish expert though. There are many people here who I'm sure could give you better guidance. But this is the page I was looking at:

http://www.wikihow.com/Cure-Betta-Fish-Diseases


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

he wont eat the bloodworms. I just saw him swim around a little bit but then went to the bottom now he is face down with his body pointing upward..weird


----------



## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

When they are vertical at the top or bottom it is usually not a good sign. It indicates something with the swim bladder, it being unable to regulate itself... I'm not sure of the details but its not a good sign.

Of course, my CT was doing that periodically for awhile before he passed but eventually passed during the night. He seems to go peacefully, as far as I know. Adding Epsom salt helped him for a bit before he passed. It didn't save him but I do think it saved him from a horrible death. Before I added the ES he was sitting at the bottom, unable to get to the surface and gasping very heavily. His gills were opening and closing deeply and his mouth was also opening and closing as if he were gasping. It stopped after I added the Epsom salt but he passed a few nights after.

I do agree that his internal problems are probably a bigger issue than any external issues at this point.


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

here is what he looks like today


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aww poor boy  It looks like he is bloated and knowing that he hasn't eaten much makes me thing internal parasites again. Have you tried the epsom salt before? Sorry, I can't remember if it already happened.

Is he pooing at all yet?


----------



## scoobie (May 3, 2013)

I wanted to thank everyone who tried saving Tiny Tim. He passed away yesterday. I am cleaning the tank today and going to buy or rescue another Betta. Any pointers on setting_ the tank up? Since we have no idea what was wrong with him should I buy another carbon filter?_


----------



## aquagreen (May 2, 2013)

I would definitely make sure you "sterilize" that tank as well as possible. But someone else would have to advise you on the best way to do that.

So sorry he didn't make it.  But it was looking pretty bleak so I can't say I'm surprised. It was great of you to try.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear, but it was fantastic that you made him as comfortable as you could in his last days!

If you need pointers on how to sterilize your tank you can PM me and I can send you my process 

If you're going to buy more rescues I would think having a "big" tank like a 10 gallon set up, heater, filter, deco and all and then have a smaller QT tank to heal them in. I have my Mini Bow 1 gallon from Aqueon that I use as a Hospital tank and then float that in my bigger tank to keep them warm, also lets them see familiar sights since my Betta's have been in their tanks a while so it keeps them calmer.


----------



## Randi b (May 13, 2013)

Scoobie, I think you are an amazing person putting so much time and effort into saving a little life I've had my share of rescuing many animals and fish some turn outs are good some bad and some amazing but you are a very special person for what you did and I want to thank you :0) . As far as setting up another tank I would start over with everything new rocks filter ornaments as far as the tank a good hot scrubbing and a few days out in the sun and another hot wash ought to do the trick then fill it with rocks water deco water treatment and let it run with the heater for a few days and go find yourself a fish that is lucky to be loved by you .


----------

