# .:~> Wondering what I would get if i bred these~>:.



## bettaboyshiva (Jul 14, 2011)

*Well this is and interesting pair, the dad appears to be a DTPK? or somthing close.. he came from a spawn where the Dad i think was PK and the mom was hmdt..most of his sibblings were short bodied hmdt ...i think im lucky he turned out this way...ok thats him...the female also came from a spawn where the dad was a PK and the mom a regular halmoon female. Now i was wondering if i crossed this pair if i would get any single tailed Plakat offspring? or would that be a long shot given the backgorunds of both fish.*

*the pair:*


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

You'd get marbles and multis with HM and HMPK fins. The dorsals will look nice  The fry will carry DT.


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## bettaboyshiva (Jul 14, 2011)

oh that'd be kool...but im prolly the only guy around where i live with fish like these...because PK and HMPK and not very common here in trinidad..only one place i know that has them and they are super expensive like $300-$400 and pair...so not many people have them..so im happy if i get PK and hmpk or anthing related to pk from this spawn..then i can use one of my copper/gold/black dragon female and breed it with one of the offspring or even this male...and maybe work my way into maybe some pk with copper dragon scales?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

the red is for surely dominant so most of them might end up red, they will carry on DBT gene, am not a professional, this is what am learning on XP i just showing basics ;p there dorsals are great though  and not sure about the anal


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## bettaboyshiva (Jul 14, 2011)

yea..the anals could have been a lil bit shorter...but never the less they gotta work


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

Wondering what will you get with those? 

A whole lotta lovin' lol j/k Those look like nice pair, would be cool if a few came out superDTPK which I doubt. yeah I could see it on the father's side with more splash of red


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## bettaboyshiva (Jul 14, 2011)

Junglist said:


> Wondering what will you get with those?
> 
> A whole lotta lovin' lol j/k Those look like nice pair, would be cool if a few came out superDTPK which I doubt. yeah I could see it on the father's side with more splash of red


lol! not relly the colours i wish to mix but..have no choice because they are the only two fishes i have with PK genes. so i have to breed em if i wish to get somthing close to a pk.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

bettaboyshiva said:


> * Now i was wondering if i crossed this pair if i would get any single tailed Plakat offspring? or would that be a long shot given the backgorunds of both fish.*


You'll get Bettas for sure!!:shock:


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

if the DT has that pink/white face as a result of piebald condition, you probably won't see that trait in your fry. 50% or so will carry it, as piebald is recessive in other animals (i don't know for sure about in bettas yet, but i suspect the same.)

V's the expert but i'd say you're going to get mostly black bodies with the green wash, and probably mostly red fins. some variations on that with less green wash, and/or black fins, red fins edged in black... ect.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

lol, Jeff!!!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Your male background is way off.
Pkxdthm
Won't produce pkdt 
If your female background is correct
You'll get a few Pk n long fin
Piedbald is just a fancy term for marble
U might get a few or might not
It's up to the fish 
How he/ she want to marble out
Piebaldxpiebald can come out with zero piebald


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> *Your male background is way off.
> Pkxdthm
> Won't produce pkdt *
> If your female background is correct
> ...


Why not?
Although, theoretically long fin is dominant, I always get some short fin when I cross them. I would even get an occasional short fin if I bred a pair of long fins that were from short fin crosses. 
IMO the OP will get some short fin, both DT and single tail.

@bbs (OP) - determine which direction you want to go - symmetrical or asymmetrical PK. This determines the shape of anal you want to breed for.

Good luck.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Never got a pkdt from crossing pkxdt

Unless it's Pk(Dt carrier)xdt
Then yes you'll
Get some Dt


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

Is it just me or is the female larger then the male?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

There about the same size
The fin just make the female look larger


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Actually piebald is a condition found in most animals on earth, that marble is a fancy term for. However people throw the term marble at all sorts of other multicolor conditions. Most of what they call marble is not piebald.

So Piebald x Marble may not get you either marble or piebald. But piebald x piebald should result in piebalds, the amount depending on if the parents are homozygus or heterozygus. The problem is getting the fish that have the proper condition. Bettas have such varied genetic backgrounds that there are other conditions that present as the same condition, but are the result of some other condition.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Piebald throw marble
Marble throw piebald
Marblexsolid can get a piebald
Piebald is just a solid color with a flesh head


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Piebald is class differently in different breed.
Most piebald is dominant gene


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Piebald is a condition where random patches on the skin/fur/scales that have no pigment. It doesn't show up in a specific location, and it can occur in few or many patches of varying size pretty much anywhere on the body.

It is likely completely separate from a "marble" where it's blue with black spots or white spots or something like that. It is lack of color in these patches entirely.

Don't get sucked in with the random names people decide to use to sell their fish. Piebald is a genuine documented condition. 

Now, i'm not aware of there being 100% proof that the piebald condition exists in Bettas, but it certainly looks like it does. While most of the likely examples i've seen have the "patch" covering at least some of the head, it's not the only way it can present. I have seen it where the patch/ patches are on the body somewhere and the head is colored.

In the rest of the animal kingdom, piebald is a recessive trait. If it is Pibaldism in bettas, it is most likely also recessive and should not appear in in subsequent generations unless both parents were carriers. Again, bettas have extremely varied genetic backgrounds so many may carry the gene, it's hard to know unless they display the trait.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piebald


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

It class differently in betta
Marble is a changing gene
Really hard to keep one to stay the same color from 2.5 month -7 month
In budgie/cockatiel that trait is call pied
Dog piebald
In dog one usualy pop up if the mom or dad is a piebald


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

The "changing gene" is most likely separate from Piebald if there truly is piebaldism in bettas. If it's truly piebald the pattern won't change, ever. It will always be colorless in the same spots. And it may look white or pink, but it's not, it is colorless, different than having just a white spot.

But in Humans and snakes and horses and dogs, the trait is recessive. But you have professional breeding and AKC -type breeding standards that have existed for hundreds of years so in many of the breeds that have piebaldism, it's a trademark of that breed, and you'd be hard pressed to find any in that breed that don't at least carry the gene for the trait, even if they don't display the trait (as in they are solid).

Again people in the Betta selling profession throw terms around that their fish may not exactly display. Everything that gets called marble is potentially 5 or more different genetic conditions. Just because you've seen it called pied or piebald, doesn't mean it has the genetic condition for which it's named. It may just be a fish with a white spot on it.

My point is, there is a True, real condition called piebald that is well documented, and it may or may not be present in bettas. If it's different than the way i describe it, it is most likely not truly piebald. Someone just decided to call it that because it looks similar to it.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

u mean this breed of dog


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

many breeds actually. Dachshund, Dane, Rat Terrier, Dalmatian, Bull Terrier, Boston Terrier, Cocker Spaniel, Jack Russell Terrier, Chihuahua, and then i got tired of looking up more lol.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

To many dog breed in piebald
But I'll rather take a blue English over a piebald


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