# Floramax and sand



## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

I set up my ten gallon tank with sand for a substrate to make it easier to plant, and to try out a new look. While I love it. I'm kind of regretting not finding some soil and making a naturally planted tank. I've started having some algae problems, and I'm wondering if its because I don't have the right nutrients. It could also be that my photoperiod is too long (usually 9 - 11 hours). 
I tried dosing aqueon plant food, but it caused my water sprite to melt horribly so I've stopped. I've since moved the water sprite to a different tank so I could go back to dosing the 10 gallon. My other thought was I could skip adding fertilizer and add some floramax in the sand under the roots of my plants to see if it helps them. 

For general info: 
Tank: 10 gallons
lighting: 1 6500k 15 watt bulb rated for plants, and 1 incandescent I haven't upgraded
Filtration: sponge filter
fertilizers: none for now
photoperiod: 9 - 11 hours
plants: 5 -6 stems wisteria, 1 banana plant, 1 clump of cryptocerne, 5-6 stalks of anacharis, 10 - 15 stems of possibly pennywort? 

Any suggestions as to what I should do to help get rid of the algae? I don't mind cleaning it off during water changes, but since its a new set up I'm not opposed to some change to help balance it out. I'm thinking of one of the following options or none of them if anyone has a better idea:
1. get a timer to reduce photoperiod
2. dose fertilizers (open to switching from the plant food, maybe flourish?)
3. try floramax under the sand... somehow. 
4. forget balance and just getting one very happy cleaner snail... 

Thanks for your time and opinions.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

What kind of algae do you have? there are many types of algae that snails wont touch...
floramax is an inert substrate, and will not provide your plants nutrition.... it will also sit on top of the sand as the granules are larger. Smaller grains always settle at the bottom. it does however promote a better roots system...
flourish is a pretty good fertiliser~ I've never used API fertilizers, so I can't comment on that.
If you think your photo period is causing algae, definitely bribg it down to 8 hours. personally I think you need more plants.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

While more plants sounds great my main source is, sadly, petsmart tube plants.


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

I've heard a lot about the wonders that oto cats can do.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5777&pictureid=44793

Well my temporary solution is this guy, meet Nemo. For my own piece of mind he was sold to me as a zebra nerite, but he looks nothing like the picture on petco's website.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

nice patterns ^_^


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

Yup, that's a nerite. Very helpful little guys. 

If you are up to taking everything out of the tanks, miracle Gro with a sand cap is pretty great. Plants really like it, no need to fertilizer most things (leading to algae blooms), and couldn't be cheaper.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

Yeah, staring at him since last night I realized he was indeed a nerite. Every time I look over he's cleaning another wall of the tank. Quite active for a snail, he's growing on me. 

I had originally wanted to do a dirted tank, but the only store nearby that sells dirt of any sort is home depot. I checked, but I couldn't find the right brand. They might have more mixes out now that its around spring planting time. Is there a certain soil that's best. All I know is that you should aim for organic.


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

Miracle Gro organic Potting Mix. Often abbreviated as MGOPM. Be careful, because there is also MGOP soil, which is not the right stuff. 

Home Depot definitely carries it; it is where I got mine.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Not sure how much difference a snail will actually make, especially depending on how much algae we're talking here. Personally, before taking apart your entire tank to set it up with a new substrate, especially since you're happy with the sand otherwise (I have plain play sand as substrate in 2 of my planted tanks and like it, although I really want to try Eco-Complete in my next planted tank if I can swing the price), I'd recommend getting some Flourish Excel, doing a partial water change and removing any algae you can, then dose with the recommended amount for inititial startup/>40% water changes (they're the same), then dosing with the recommended daily maintenance amount (very little required for a 10g) every morning when the lights first come on for at least a week to see if that makes a difference with the algae issue. I can guarantee you'll see a difference in your plants in less time than that lol, so regardless there'll be at least some benefit from it lol. I rarely dose my tanks every day, but I do usually remember to do it at least several mornings a week and the improvement in the appearance, growth, health, etc. since I started using it has been way more dramatic than what I was expecting.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

He's succeeded in making lovely little snail trails through my algae, though I don't really consider him a solution, I don't mind the algae as much if I just consider it growing my own food.  

Still, I would like to see some significant growth in my plants. Does anyone have much experience with wisteria? Mine is green and alive, but hasn't shown much growth. Has anyone used the Aqueon plant food, or should I just ditch it and get flourish? It seems to be the more popular choice. 

Thanks VJM, I've got a 5 gallon and a 6 gallon that I want to re-do soon and now that I know I can get soil I can experiment with them.


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## DefStatic (Mar 17, 2013)

You need to split your light timing a little, and take it down a notch. And any incandescent bulb is just going to produce heat.

Have you added any root tabs? Are you using any kind of liquid fert? Oh, I see you are not using any ferts. This is a big problem for your growth, but not causing your algae problem. Algae is actually a sign of too much light/heat/certain nutrients. You essentially are making your plants run a marathon with no food, having the light on that long. Split the light up, and get some root tabs.

Your substrate is not a problem. Floramax is good (Petsmart has a sale on it BTW, 50% off). But you can easily use sand with root tabs and get the same results. Floramax doesn't have everything that is needed, and still needs ferts, and will eventually become the same as sand.

If thos echanges at least stop the algae from spreading, then go get soem Flourish Excel or some Algae remover (or just clean it up) and you should be fine after. How long have you had the tank running? Everyone, especially with plants, will deal with algae for a while once the tank is cycled and continues to sort itself out.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

The tanks been up for roughly a month. I don't really consider the algae too much of a problem, but I was curious. When I got the tank it had 2 incandescent bulbs, I replaced one of them with a 6500k bulb and the algae is much worse on the side with the plant bulb, so I was wondering if it was just lack of fertilizer. 
I stopped the fertilizer (I have Aqueon plant food), because it started causing my water sprite to melt, so I got a little distrustful of it, I've since moved the water sprite to a different tank. The other thing I'd heard is that root tabs can cause the water to get really cloudy.

I added the dose for a 10g from my plant food and will monitor the results. I'm also going to start monitoring my photoperiod a little better.


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## DefStatic (Mar 17, 2013)

Fin Fancier said:


> The tanks been up for roughly a month. I don't really consider the algae too much of a problem, but I was curious. When I got the tank it had 2 incandescent bulbs, I replaced one of them with a 6500k bulb and the algae is much worse on the side with the plant bulb, so I was wondering if it was just lack of fertilizer.
> I stopped the fertilizer (I have Aqueon plant food), because it started causing my water sprite to melt, so I got a little distrustful of it, I've since moved the water sprite to a different tank. The other thing I'd heard is that root tabs can cause the water to get really cloudy.
> 
> I added the dose for a 10g from my plant food and will monitor the results. I'm also going to start monitoring my photoperiod a little better.


Root tabs will not cloud the water, unless you are not actually putting it in the substrate and just sitting on top of it LOL.

Half my Argentine Swords are melting after about a month, but all of it has new growth that is fine.

There is a transition period for most plants if they were grown immersed as opposed to submersed.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

OMG, I just typed out and then lost pretty in-depth and long replies TWICE by hitting a random weird key. Basic gist of it was that despite "knowing better", I've been pretty lazy regarding the care and maintenance of my tanks. Like, I'll remember to use the liquid ferts sometimes, but forget more often than not, I'm horrible regarding mainting a consistent light cycle and most days they're probably much longer than they should be, I knew I really should've added at least "something" to my sand substrate from the beginning, but didn't, and since then haven't even bothered to pick up root tabs, which I'm sure is having a really negative effect on my poor argentine sword that lost most of its leaves during the transition period and is trying to regrow them but having a pretty hard time, the excel does make a big difference when I remember to use it, but even that I regularly forget. Its embarassing because I *know* all these things, I just don't do them. Since its pretty pointless having these planted tanks, having the knowledge needed in order for them to actually be thriving, spending money on the supplies and plants themselves, etc., I'll definitely be changing how I do things. I'll be getting light timers and putting each tank on an appropriate photoperiod schedule since I just don't trust myself to consistently remember, ferts will actually be *used*, will be getting root tabs, etc. So if nothing else, this thread has accomplished making me realize all the crud I've been neglecting/lazy about and inspired me to change that .

That out of the way:
I somehow missed that you'd stopped using the liquid ferts, you def want to continue with those. I use the 6500K CFLs right now also, and since finding them in anything less than 10 watts is like, impossible (if anyone knows of some and where to find them then I would REALLY love it if you could let me know lol), even in my 5g that means 2 watts/gallon, which is considered pretty high I believe. Possibly its a good thing since, being a hex, its considerably taller than the average 5g meaning the light has to reach further. My 2.5g minibow...apart from heavily modding the hood I'm not sure theres a real solution. Right now I just have my hardiest plants that can also do well in high light environments in there, but I'm thinking that means I'd also need to be compensating somehow w/extra ferts and/or CO2 really. I still need that tank as far as housing, but it might just be time to retire it as a planted tank. I was gonna say something re: the incandescent light too, its only producing heat and enough light for viewing at most (how much depends on the wattage).

DefStatic, is there a certain brand/type of root tab that you recommend personally? I'm also more than open to suggestions for liquid ferts, like I said I'm currently using the Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food. I'm really liking the excel and how its working so far, and plan to continue to use it as part of my "improved care regimen" for the time-being at least. Do you have any personal experience with the Floramax? I def wouldn't buy it at full price, but at 50% off would really consider it if it'd help.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

Awe Laurenie, thanks for taking the time to reply three times. XD I'm with you. I've done a ton of research since I decided to use plants in my tank (this all started with one anubais nana), but it never occurred to me that even with the right light on my problem was fertilizer. 

I've decided that I'll start doing my fertilization with my weekly water changes, that way I know my plants will get what they need.I'll post here about any changes, and I can monitor how the plant food is working. If I don't like my results I'll try Flourish. I'll also look in to upgrading the other bulb soon. I only kept my wisteria and anacharis on the incandescent side of the tank, but that may explain their lack of significant growth.

edit: added some tank pics
Gill's tank as of today









This one shows the algae better


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Aqueous plant food is pretty good, I add potassium and micro fert and plants grow fast, so does the algae, I over fertilized , so i use excel and shorten lighting time (photo period) and it works.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Lol, you're very welcome Fin Fancier--I wasn't going to give up! And just a tip, my 6500K CFL bulbs are actually just Philips brand I ordered from HomeDepot.com (of course they don't stock this item in-store that would be too convenient ). They come in 4-packs, and my 13 watt ones were like, $8-9/4-pack maybe? Considering a basically identical bulb (13w, 6500K, CFL that fits average screw-in sockets) on Amazon is at least that much for one bulb, I think its a pretty good deal. Since I was paying for shipping anyway and have multiple tanks that these work in, I went ahead and ordered two 4-packs. I wasn't able to find these specific bulbs on Amazon, but I'm pretty sure I found other CFLs that came in various wattages and had between 5500K-6500K light depending on which brand, for pretty similar prices.

The bulb that came with my 2.5g minibow was just a small incandescent, and it produced the same effect as that on the right side of your tank lol. I knew it needed to be upgraded for plants, but didn't realize what a drastic difference there was until a got my Marineland Eclipse 5g Hex in the mail not too long afterwards and set it up. They actually do come with a 10W 6500K CFL, and after actually comparing the tanks and seeing how badly the incandescent one appeared, it hurt me to look at it after that until my new bulbs arrived lol.

Looks like we have quite a few of the same plants too, and actually the algae doesn't look all that bad to me in the pics at least. How quickly is it growing--like when you clean it all off how long before it comes back?

I'm going to use the Aqueon for now (obvs, since its what I have lol), but tonight I started actually researching fertilizers in planted tanks to hopefully get at least a basic understanding of the various macro and micro nutrients typically used, their main functions, percentages recommended based on specific setups and plants (theres actually an online "calculator" for this apparently where you enter your specific tank info and it provides you with the numbers so I'll just bookmark that ), etc. I was looking at homemade fertilizer "recipes", methods, suggestions and all that good stuff and it didn't take long for me to decide that while I can definitely see the benefits both economically and as far as it truly being customized to your tank, I don't think I'm *quite* at that level yet lol. They made a pretty valid point though about how when you buy liquid ferts you're basically paying for a bottle of water with some fertilizers added. And yes, the label on my Aqueon fert bottle confirms that its 98.5% water. And its not like thats surprising or anything, especially not with products specifically manufactured for the pet trade, but still. I can definitely see now why its so much more economical to buy it as a powder and mix it yourself. This site seems to be a popular one for ordering the products needed to make your own ferts (plus they have pre-made ones that I'm more interested in at this point haha): http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/index.asp 
Flourish brand ferts are the ones I'm seeing most recommend as far as commercial liquid ferts, which wasn't really a surprise. Someone needs to have like....a 75% off sale on all their products....with free shipping


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Pfertz.com has some good info on micro fert. contents.


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## Fin Fancier (Aug 11, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I need to make a trip to the home depot soon to pick up my potting mix. I've spent plenty of time playing with my 10 gallon, its time for the other fish to get a bit of a re-do as well. 
Speaking of similar plants anyone have telanthera (alternanthera reineckii)? Oddly enough I found it at walmart. It was giant and pretty and only 4$ so I picked it up on a bit of a whim, but now I'm worried I'm going to kill it. From what I've read its pretty high maintenance, so no better time to research my fertilizers. Thanks for the links.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Otterfun said:


> Pfertz.com has some good info on micro fert. contents.



Unfortunately the poor guy is now fighting cancer...  I hope he pulls through


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