# Breeding time!



## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

I have Lightning and Wish are my betta's and Wish is SOOO Full of eggs! I've had them about a week and a half and i've two tanks! Well At first I was having such a HARd time b/c Lightning would not blow a nest I would tease him with Wish by putting her in the tank and he would be way to busy showing off and then when I took her out she went literally NUTS! she was swimming against the vase I put her in temporarily and went belly up!! I was WIGGIN OUT! So I had to put her back in with Lightning without the vase until I set up a tank for her! So I seperated them for a couple days to give her some R&R (when they are in the same tank no separated she gets scared then calms down then scared but he isnt violent at all!) Well I decided to put her in with him again to encourage a bubble nest and let her float in there over night.. Again no nest!! So I put her in there without a barrier and he finally is decideing he wants to make a nest PHEW(these two working my nerves) So question is.. Do I leave her in there while he is making the nest or put her back in the 3 way breeder?? He again isnt hurting her and I'm home all day.. Sorry this is so long


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm a little confused....

Did you condition them? You mentioned you only had them for a week and a half... I recommend 2 weeks of quarantine and then another 2 weeks of conditioning... This means lots of good foods (pellet, frozen, live), warm clean water, exercise, and yes - isolation. That means they do not see each other at all.

I suggest having three tanks: The spawn tank, and the two tanks for the two fish. After breeding it is very taxing and they do not need more stress with sharing a tank. I actually never recommend a male and female in the same tank (with dividers it is different but even then they can become stressed).

My suggestion: Remove her. Condition them. While doing that, make sure to have live foods for the fry on hand. Research a lot on breeding - there are a few excellent stickies on here!


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Thanks!! I'm wanting to make dividers but I cannot find the required materials.. Do you know places that just sell the dividers?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Many fish/pet stores sell them, and you can also find them on eBay and Amazon.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

ok i need help again.. I took Wish out of the bowl to condition them both again for a few more days.. The issue im having it my Water is Hard and the PH is off even if I put a PH tablet in it.. Also my water seems green with the Indian Leaf plant is this normal? I have a heater filter a pretend log(decor) and a Styrofoam cup.. Lightning dosn't seem sad he flares at the mirror but he still hasnt made a nest.. Ideas?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

...What is the size of "bowl" you had them in to breed? 

Both city and well water can have different PH levels, which can be affected my maintenance (or in the case of well water, run off) I know you can buy some things that help drop the PH to or close to neutral. When I use the indian almond leaves I have tinted "gold/brown" water. You may have some floating algae (any windows nearby?).

Tell me what you have exactly, for the setup... Tank size, filter, heater, decor, substrate, the temperature, the depth of water...


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Yes Golden Brown is what it looks like. I believe it's a 10 gal tank with whisper filter(just took the Styrofoam off the filter to give better filtration) temp is im going to say between 77 and 80 mark, decore I have the indian leaf full size couple plane plastic plants and a Log Decore from walmart size Large(he likes swimming in and out of it)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

For a spawn tank you don't want a full filter... i recommend a sponge filter, or if you use the filter putting a sponge under the flow and on the intake makes it better.

Try keeping the temperature at around 80-84 degrees... That is what mine is at. 

Also do a daily water change and get the gunk off the bottom of the tank.

How high do you have the water level? I keep mine at 4 inches.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Sadly this temp is what it stays at It doesn't give me the option to change. I also have about 4inches its not full full and I only removed the filter to help clean the tank a little since I'm not breeding for another week. Ill do another water change should it be 50 percents?


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

I'm also using my Brita water filter to filter it see if that helps I did about 20 percent change in water.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Update: Water got clear after water change, Lightning began blowing his bubble nest and Wish is just black as ever and FAT with eggs!! She goes up to him and oddly she tried to embrace him but as soon as he blew his fins at her to show off she swam away... Is this normal?? She keeps going up to him and under the nest but he then chases her, she has been in his tank since yesterday evening, no damage has been done and she shows no fear..


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

OKay update... They just finally spawned( I got a recording and everything) but he just ate the eggs.. They spawned like 4-5x and he just put them in his mouth swam around then went back to her and spawned again.. Never once did he blow the eggs into the nest.. GRR


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

happens sometimes. best to give them a 2 week rest recovery and condition them again. if he eats the eggs the 2nd time around, it's not a fluke and you probably shouldnt waste your time trying to use him again as a sire.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Agreed LOL. First time dads may do that. They sometimes get better with each time they spawn.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

pain in the butt!! Atleast I got 2 good videos from it!! This is the 2nd time i've breed betta's (been a couple years) and my first Sire was'nt such a pain!


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

http://youtu.be/hQTCXJRiNwk


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I know what you mean... My first spawn was AMAZING. He wanted to stay with his free swimming fry... Lol. Now each spawn has some sort of issue!

Nice spawn!!


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

HAHA Thanks and yea he is a pain! Thanks so much! Ill update next spawn im conditionining the female with some fresh frozen worms and shrimp. Lightning is on a no food diet for another day or two, he had a huge belly from over eating so im cutting back for now then ill condition him


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

That's funny.

My female Myra inhales bloodworms and pellets. Cole on the other hand is a bit slower at times.

@Sena, that's nice your betta loved his kids that much.

Hoping Cole is like that.

Sorry about Lightning, hopefully next time he won't duck out of 'the joys of parenthood'.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Try to spread his food out, in smaller portions, over the day  I do that with some of my fish haha. Some could (or would) eat a TON in one meal... But I won't let them.

I have never had another male betta who was so attached to his kids :lol:


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

My female inhales bloodworms and pellets. Cole, can be slower at times, I usually feed them twice, switching between pellets and frozen bloodworms.

Tried frozen brine shrimp and it didn't work out so I'm saving those for their fry when they get older.

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Interesting thing about your betta, Sena.I've seen two bettas I think they were siblings in a small tank at Petco. Didn't snap at each other or anything.

I'm the sort of person who'd buy both of them just so they could stay together.

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Speaking of which, Asmith you plan on keeping any of Lightning and Wish's sons and daughters?


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

I'm going to keep one or two I think.. I promised my daughter she can choose from on of the litter  Or Fry.. I'm looking at getting a 20gal tank from PetCo that has a base and keeping the 10 gal as a breeding tank then serperating the 20 gal into 2.. So many choices lol


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

If i was to put sand in my breeding tank for my plants would that complicate my male and getting his eggs back up?


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I think most people here will tell you to ditch the sand. I have an 8 gallon tank that was part of a kit and it comes with gravel but I'll just leave it in the package since it's not recommended, mostly because since newborn bettas are so small, having nothing on the bottom of the tank makes it easier for their Dad to see and pick them up.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

okay and my thought is also keep the decors out for the most part.. I have a fake log in the breeding tank atm and threw some real plants in the cracks and nooks.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

No substrate is what I recommend. Trust me... Even after dad has done his job, when you go to do yours and you are trying to clean, find dead fry, or avoiding the live ones, substrate isn't the best to have... :lol:


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

So... how's it going?


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

I'm still waiting for wish to Fatten up.. Hopeing by tomorrow.. She is getting 3 meals a day but there only a little bit


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I understand that.

My female Myra is somewhat large but I'll try putting her on three meals and see if her size increases. I don't know if she's either not carrying a lot of eggs or if she absorbed some of them.

It's funny, she's filled out to a point where I've sort of forgot what she looked like when she was at her normal weight.

I have also heard about some females who have a small number the first time around.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Whether fat or thin, they will lay around the same amount of eggs. If you have only a few, either the male or female (or both) snacked on them. OR lack of experience (the fish), they didn't embrace properly and finally got exhausted (specially the male) and called it quits. 

Just make sure they are healthy and very active.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I see. My male and female have been separated since I'm reconditiong them. I allowed them a few minutes to see one another today and my female held her tail in upward. My male watched before he started swimming around, I think he might've repaired his bubble nest which has pretty much fell apart.

I've heard females usually lay around 100 to 500 eggs, though I've heard of breeders only have five or as many as 50 surviving fry.

I suppose each spawn varies.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

They average 700+ to 1000. My lowest count (fry, not eggs) was over 750 and highest was over 1300. But I have never counted recent spawns - it doesn't look that many.

Survival rate depends on care. But most breeders produce around 300 to adult (average). Some exceptional breeders can produce 700+ per spawn. Novice breeders usually produce less than 100 to adult - a good manageable number.

This is also the reason why betta genetics is hard to understand. Imagine if 1000 is 100% but only 200 survive to adult. That's only 20% of the total gene pool . . . which genetic make up survived? So if you are trying to create something specific, it is best to get as many survive or breed the pair a few times to get more fry to choose from for the nest generation.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I'll make a note of that. From what I've seen posted here, 100 seems to be the norm. I'm hoping a decent number do survive to adulthood.

Hopefully having fish directly from breeders usually have good genes as opposed to bettas sold in pet store chains.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Put wish in with her hubby but she got vertical stripes so i put her back in the floating breeding tank for now.. I may try tonight or in the morning..


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

At least she's not stressed, that's a good thing. Might not be a bad idea to give her the day off.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

well I put it as a she isnt ready to breed the last time she breed I put her in the tank and she stayed dark


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Really? that's interesting. My female usually turns dark blue and her stripes become more noticable but the rest of the time she looks green.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Yes she becomes like Black and white stripes when she is ready.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Huh... interesting. Funny, mine's been doing the submissive pose where she has her head down and her tail pointed up. Anytime Cole noticed, she turned around. I walk in and if she sees me, she'll move move.

I got a breeding box for her... I hope she doesn't panic when I put her in there. 

How does Wish react to it?


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

If she does just put a couple worms in there.. I put wish back in the tank she didnt go back to scared we shall see what happens


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Thanks. I'll try that. 

Hope it works out for you.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Thanks! Ill keep you updated!


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

You're welcome. 

Sounds good. I had a chance to look at my female while she was eating and she's filled out more than I thought.

Here's a clip of both my bettas eating bloodworms. 

Guess Who came to Dinner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLI0X7pGgMk


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

yes she looks filled out nicely!! Does she look like a black zebra yet lol, thats how mine is I put her back in last night and nothing happen so i let her sleep over lol. I am buying a 50 gal tank for 150 that includes all the set up and a stand.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

is there a way to tell if he blew the eggs in or ate them??


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Eggs are more of an off-white and will show in the nest if you look closely. Mine are usually clumped together at first, and can be seen under the nest or from the top (depending on how thick his nest is). 

For my fish, if they ate the egg they would have looked like they were eating something (chewing). Otherwise they eventually go up to the nest and blow "bubbles".


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

ASmith1985 said:


> yes she looks filled out nicely!! Does she look like a black zebra yet lol, thats how mine is I put her back in last night and nothing happen so i let her sleep over lol. I am buying a 50 gal tank for 150 that includes all the set up and a stand.


Thanks. She does turn dark blue and her stripes are sort of like a white gold color.

Have fun setting up the tank.:-D


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