# Plant Lamps Dimmer than Regular Flourescent?



## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

I just put in a Flora-Sun Max Plant Growth lamp to replace the flourescent that came with my 28G bowfront... It's dimmer, and has a blueish/purplish hue to it. Is that normal? I would think it would be brighter. :/

BEFORE:









AFTER:


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I think those are in the 5000 kelvin range...even though 5000k is okay for live plants...the 6500k is better in my experience, however, they do give a more yellow look than blue...

Plants use more red spectrum for photosynthesis but they also need blue...I would add another bulb along with this one...one in the 6500k range and you will get better plant growth that is more pleasing to the eye.....


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

You are right, it is 5000 K. The package says 5000k high intensity lamp with peak emissions in the blue and red regions to maximize the photobiological process in plants.. (Well, I guess that explains the "purple"- doi) 

I don't think my LFS sold a 6500k, I think this was the only plant lamp they had but I guess I could shop around. Will the plants grow under a 5000k? I am hoping to have them spread out more. They were under the regular flourescent for about 2 weeks and some leaves died. I'm adding flourish too.


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

Ditto. 6,500 to 10,000 is best for plants. The blue spectrum is not as usable for them..its better for corals. 10000K gives off a nice white light...and 6500 is more yellow (just like OFL said ) You should be able to easily find a 6500K bulb at your local store (they even have em at Walmart).

That bulb may be a dud because a plant bulb should not be blue like that.


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

Ahh... 5000K. That explains it. I think you should return it because you can buy one fluorescent in the correct range that should be enough for your plants. I have a 10000K T5HO on my 55 gallon and my plants love it  They grow like mad.

If you have room, you may wanna have 2 bulbs, but if you only have one lamp for the tank, like I said before, I'd return it.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

HMMM!!!!!!! OK!!!  Thank you for the advice. I will prob try to find he 10000K then since it will be more of a white light. Do you think those are at the petstores? I'm lazy... maybe I will try amazon.com! lol... Free 2 day shipping, holla!


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

I'd probably just amazon it too. I live in the country and I can't find ANYTHING here


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

OH and LED lights are super pretty and white and my plants like those too, but they are 1)expensive, and 2) I don't like the way my iridescent bettas look as well under leds as fluorescents.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

OK, good to know.  I'm in the country too... 1/2 hr to a pet store. I could try the feed/tractor/pet stores 10 mins away but again, lazy. :} PS this is Eggie's tank.  (Soon to be sorority, I hope)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Plants tend to grow best in spectrum that is more like the sun and this is in the 6500k range...I use/buy regular daylight bulbs...not aquarium bulbs...so much cheaper and do the same thing......lol.......photoperiod is also important for plants...you want to start at 10h/day and increase based on plant growth and algae...its a balance...not long enough and you don't get good plant growth and the algae can out-compete them and some plants can be tricked by short photoperiod into thinking its a season change and go dormant, die or flower...depending on the species......long term changes not a day here or there......I stay on a 12/h/day photoperiod with my NPT and so I need to change out my bulbs every 6 months....its best to change bulbs at least yearly even when they still work....spectrum, intensity and light penetration decrease over time....... you can't usually see it but the plants and algae can......


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

OFL, where do you buy your bulbs, if not from the pet store? They will fit in an aquarium light strip?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I get mine usually at wal mart in the lighting dept or home depot, lowes...GE brand daylight bulbs 6500k the regular 2 pin type that are just like aquarium bulbs except for the "aquarium use" label that you pay more for....same bulbs different packaging.......depending on the size...18-48 inch and 15-40wattas....all the same thing........at half or more less....best part since I change my bulbs every 6 months X's 28 bulbs.....(not at the same time-I am changing a tanks bulbs nearly every 2 months)


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Where can I find 10000k? Walmart only has up to 6500k


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

+1 on everything OldFishLady said. If you really want some crazy plant growth, put a 6500K and a 10000K with some CO2 and your plants will go crazy. As far as where to find 10000K bulbs, find the nearest saltwater shop. Those bulbs are very popular in the salt water hobby. People in that hobby even go higher then that and use 20000K and above, but that is all metal halides. Other then that, you may just have to get it on-line. Good luck.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Found a 10,000k at petsmart  yayyy... So this is ok to use without a 6500k right? So far my plants look the same, but the lighting is sooooo much better...


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

smellsfishie said:


> Found a 10,000k at petsmart  yayyy... So this is ok to use without a 6500k right? So far my plants look the same, but the lighting is sooooo much better...


It is fine to use by itself. I used one for a while and had pretty good plant growth. I have also used higher then that with pretty good results.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Lion mom found a 18k, ask her about that and where she saw it XD


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Lion mom found a 18k, ask her about that and where she saw it XD


I am guessing she got one of the PowerGlo bulbs? I had one of those for a short time. The plants did pretty well with it.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

PewPewPew said:


> Lion mom found a 18k, ask her about that and where she saw it XD


I didn't purchase it, just asked about it. OFL says that over 10,000 is a waste though since the plants can't see/use that much. 

Here is a link to the thread:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=72925

Decided to go with these 8,000K full spectrum jobs - pretty reasonably priced too, IMO:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850

Now just to order them - LOL!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> I didn't purchase it, just asked about it. OFL says that over 10,000 is a waste though since the plants can't see/use that much.
> 
> Here is a link to the thread:
> 
> ...


I have used those exact 8,000K bulbs for a while and got decent results. I would prefer the 10,000K or the 6,500K though. But you should get some good growth with it, especially on the stem plants.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> I have used those exact 8,000K bulbs for a while and got decent results. I would prefer the 10,000K or the 6,500K though. But you should get some good growth with it, especially on the stem plants.


6500 is better than the 8000? Hmmm...... 

Well, they GOTTA be better than the 5500 ZooMed plant bulbs I'm using now & that are almost a year old - don't they??? :-?


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> 6500 is better than the 8000? Hmmm......
> 
> Well, they GOTTA be better than the 5500 ZooMed plant bulbs I'm using now & that are almost a year old - don't they??? :-?


Honestly at this point, almost any bulb would be better then what you are using. You should replace the bulb once every 6 t 7 months even if it is still working. After that amount of time, it is no longer putting out light that the plants can use for photosynthesis. And as far as 6500 being better then the 8000, not sure. I got better results with the 6500 but still better results with the 10000. So, that will just be something to try and see what works for your plants.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Or - what about the Coralife NutriGrow (6500K):

http://www.bigalsonline.com/NutriGrow-Fluorescent-Lamp_10005249_82.html

Better yet??? 

Sheesh - all I wanna do is find some replacement lamps. Didn't think it would be this HARD - LOL!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Or - what about the Coralife NutriGrow (6500K):
> 
> http://www.bigalsonline.com/NutriGrow-Fluorescent-Lamp_10005249_82.html
> 
> ...


That should work. I wish they would show a graph of the color spectrum, that would help more.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

haha, I agree lionmom...


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> That should work. I wish they would show a graph of the color spectrum, that would help more.


If you go here & click on "More Information", you will see it. :-D

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4505

AND for the 8000K full spectrum one, you can go to this and, again, click on "More Information" to see that graph:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12850

I have NO idea what I am looking at as far as those graphs go, so I REALLY appreciate your help - THANK YOU!!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> If you go here & click on "More Information", you will see it. :-D
> 
> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4505
> 
> ...


When looking at the color spectrum, you want something high in the blue or red spectrum. Red is better. High in the green spectrum will not be as good as something in the red. Plants can't use green light for photosynthesis (weird, isn't it. Lol.) but they love red and second of all blue. I would go with the Coralife bulb as it gives out the color you want as opposed to the Aqueon that gives off high green/yellow light. I hope this helps clear up the bulb puzzle a little bit. And if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. And no problem on the help, any time.:-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

OMG, THANK YOU!!!!! 

I was leaning towards that bulb doing research on-line, but wasn't 100% sure since I pretty much don't know ANYTHING about lighting!!! 

So, again - THANK YOU!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> OMG, THANK YOU!!!!!
> 
> I was leaning towards that bulb doing research on-line, but wasn't 100% sure since I pretty much don't know ANYTHING about lighting!!!
> 
> So, again - THANK YOU!!!


No problem. Just remember to change it out every six months. Also, what type of fixture and how long is it?


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> When looking at the color spectrum, you want something high in the blue or red spectrum. Red is better. High in the green spectrum will not be as good as something in the red. Plants can't use green light for photosynthesis (weird, isn't it. Lol.) but they love red and second of all blue. I would go with the Coralife bulb as it gives out the color you want as opposed to the Aqueon that gives off high green/yellow light. I hope this helps clear up the bulb puzzle a little bit. And if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. And no problem on the help, any time.:-D



OK - one more question, cableguy, if you don't mind! :-D

What about this Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp with 6280K?

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Mer...ategory_Code=FL Full Spectrum&Product_Count=3

Better or not as good? A couple bucks cheaper so that's not a big consideration. Remember, I have a double tube strip light so I will be using two tubes on this tank. 

Thanks again!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> OK - one more question, cableguy, if you don't mind! :-D
> 
> What about this Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp with 6280K?
> 
> ...


That will not fit in a T8 fixture. I would stick with a 6500K like the coralife and go with a 10000K as well. T12 are too bulky in my opinion and you would need a different fixture for that. I would go with the 6500K in your previous post and maybe this one

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8066+4495&pcatid=4495

Or you can do two of the 6500K. The 10000K is really more for aesthetics then the plants, but it will help them.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> No problem. Just remember to change it out every six months. Also, what type of fixture and how long is it?


It is a double tube strip light 24 inches long. When I purchased it, I WAS looking at the 36 inch long ones, but they were WAY more expensive and used the same tubes!!!!!


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> That will not fit in a T8 fixture. I would stick with a 6500K like the coralife and go with a 10000K as well. T12 are too bulky in my opinion and you would need a different fixture for that.


While there are T8 tubes in it now, it actually IS a T12 fixture. :-D

So you are recommending a combo of one 6500 and one 10,000?


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> While there are T8 tubes in it now, it actually IS a T12 fixture. :-D
> 
> So you are recommending a combo of one 6500 and one 10,000?


That is what I would go with. The 10,000K would make the light look better to us without harming the plants. If you don't mind the look, you can use two 6500K lights. I would also advise getting a 24" T8 fixture. Those bulbs will only play nice with a T12 fixture for so long and I would hate to see something happen to it or the tank. Plus, you will be helping the life of the bulbs by putting them in the correct fixture. I have seen these go really bad. I used to work in a factory that made lights for buildings and it was the same bulbs as we use in this hobby. Ballasts are make to take a certain bulb and when you put the wrong one in there, the outcome can get really bad sometimes. I have seen these things do every thing from just burn out to explode. So, I would have to strongly suggest getting a different fixture if your heart is set on the T8 bulbs. Sorry didn't mean to ramble on, just trying to point you in the right direction.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> That is what I would go with. The 10,000K would make the light look better to us without harming the plants. If you don't mind the look, you can use two 6500K lights. I would also advise getting a 24" T8 fixture. Those bulbs will only play nice with a T12 fixture for so long and I would hate to see something happen to it or the tank. Plus, you will be helping the life of the bulbs by putting them in the correct fixture. I have seen these go really bad. I used to work in a factory that made lights for buildings and it was the same bulbs as we use in this hobby. Ballasts are make to take a certain bulb and when you put the wrong one in there, the outcome can get really bad sometimes. I have seen these things do every thing from just burn out to explode. So, I would have to strongly suggest getting a different fixture if your heart is set on the T8 bulbs. Sorry didn't mean to ramble on, just trying to point you in the right direction.


Here is the fixture I have:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3800

The description says it accepts T12, T10 & T8 lamps. Still unsafe? I have not had any problems with the T8 tubes being in it, but would rather NOT take a chance on burning the joint down!!! :-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Soooo - here is what I am thinking (Ok - you can stop laughing now!). One Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp (6280K) and one T-12 High Output 35 Watt 24" Daylight Fluorescent Tube (6500K). 

Sound good or not so much? 

Thanks!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Soooo - here is what I am thinking (Ok - you can stop laughing now!). One Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp (6280K) and one T-12 High Output 35 Watt 24" Daylight Fluorescent Tube (6500K).
> 
> Sound good or not so much?
> 
> Thanks!


Ok, after reading the specs on that strip light, it is fine to put T8 lamps in it as it is made for them. My bad. And I am not laughing at you. We have all been at this point in the hobby before and the only reason I know anything about it, is because of people sharing their knowledge with me and being patient with me. Just do the same for someone once you have it all down pat, and my time will not be wasted.:-D Getting back to the light, it says it is made for T8, T10, and T12 lamps. So it is fine if you put the T8 lamps in it. I would go for the 6500K and 10000K lamps. That fixture will not take HO lamps though.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes, I ABSOLUTELY do my best to share what I have leaned over the years. That's the way it's done, isn't it? 

Why do you keep saying one 10,000 bulb? Wouldn't two in the 6700 range be better for the plants?

BTW, what is an HO lamp? 

Never mind - just Googled it & found it is "High Output". Sheesh...... LOL!

Oh man - does that mean I can't use the T-12 High Output 35 Watt 24" Daylight Fluorescent Tube I was looking at? 

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=F24T12-D-HO

For some reason, I was thinking the HO lamps were T5???? 

You know, I normally consider myself fairly intelligent, but this lighting thing is just kicking my butt!!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Yes, I ABSOLUTELY do my best to share what I have leaned over the years. That's the way it's done, isn't it?
> 
> Why do you keep saying one 10,000 bulb? Wouldn't two in the 6700 range be better for the plants?
> 
> ...


Lol, it kicked my butt in the beginning as well. Then I got a job at a lighting factory assembling them and got a whole lot of knowledge. The thing with High Output lights is this. You need a different ballast that will cope with the higher wattage of the lamp. If you have an underpowered ballast, your bulb will burn out, break, or the ballast will die. The bulb is cheaper to deal with, but ballasts cost a lot of money. Unless the fixture says it can use a High Output bulb, it cannot handle it. They make ballasts that will run one type of lamp or ones that will run a few types. They also are made to run one or multiple and different length. There are also ones that will run Normal Output (NO), High Output (HO), and Very High Output (VHO). And there are the ones that run Compact Fluorescent (CFL). Running the incorrect bulb could be disastrous. I would say just run what it can handle.

As far as the 6500K and 10000K, I say that because then you will have the correct light for the plants and you will have light that is pleasing to the eye. If you have 2 65ooK bulbs, you may run into the problem of too much light. Remember, the more light you give your plants, the more CO2 and nutrients you have to give them as well. It is a delicate balancing act. I suggest the 10000K bulb so it will look good, but as it is high in the blue spectrum, it will also help them without needing to add too many gadgets and chemicals to the tank. CO2 setups can get pricey and adding fertilizer can get pricey and be a pain in the butt in the long run. (Fertilizer alone can make you have to take a chemistry class just to get the basics down.) I am not dissuading you from doing it, but if you want to stay low-tech, i would not put 2 6500K bulbs over your tank. And if you want to go hi-tech, then it would be time to switch to LED's and/or T5's. Sorry for the rambling, just trying to give you enough info to keep your tank looking nice.:-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

WHEW - good to know I'm not as stupid as I was beginning to think!!! LOL!

Loved your "rambling" - I really have a better understanding now because of it! 

Can I run one T12 & one T8 at the same time, or is that a big NO-NO? 

Thanks so much for all your help - AGAIN!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> WHEW - good to know I'm not as stupid as I was beginning to think!!! LOL!
> 
> Loved your "rambling" - I really have a better understanding now because of it!
> 
> ...


No problem. I tend to get a little long winded at times. I would not try to run a T8 and T12 on the same fixture. I have never tried this, but I am going to assume it will not end well. I would stick with one or the other.:-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> No problem. I tend to get a little long winded at times. I would not try to run a T8 and T12 on the same fixture. I have never tried this, but I am going to assume it will not end well. I would stick with one or the other.:-D


Kinda what I thought also, but wanted to check with the expert! :-D

See what a suck up I am? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Kinda what I thought also, but wanted to check with the expert! :-D
> 
> See what a suck up I am? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Lol. Thank you, but I am no expert. I just know a thing or two.;-)


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

So I ended up ordering the 
Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp (6280K) and a 
T-12 Lamp Medium Bi-Pin Base 24" Daylight (6500K) - both T12.

Not as bright as you recommended, but the price was right and we will see how it goes.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> So I ended up ordering the
> Verilux Instant Sun® Full Spectrum 20 Watt T-12 Lamp (6280K) and a
> T-12 Lamp Medium Bi-Pin Base 24" Daylight (6500K) - both T12.
> 
> Not as bright as you recommended, but the price was right and we will see how it goes.


If it does not work, you can always get new bulbs. Just remember to replace these every 6 months or so. Good luck.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> If it does not work, you can always get new bulbs. Just remember to replace these every 6 months or so. Good luck.


True dat! :-D

Personally, I don't need the bright white light. The lights I have now are plant lights (ZooMed) and they aren't all that bright - never were. I can see in the tank just fine. I am most interested in what is best for the plants and the fish. 

Thanks SO much for all the help you have given me - I was totally LOST!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> True dat! :-D
> 
> Personally, I don't need the bright white light. The lights I have now are plant lights (ZooMed) and they aren't all that bright - never were. I can see in the tank just fine. I am most interested in what is best for the plants and the fish.
> 
> Thanks SO much for all the help you have given me - I was totally LOST!!!


If you don't mind the dimmer light, then go for the 2 6500K lights. I like my tanks really bright and I like to see the colors really well, that is why I say to use those lights. But, again, that is more an aesthetics thing. If you don't mind the look, then there is no reason not to do the 6500K bulbs. And no problem on the help. Like I said, just do it for someone else who needs it in the future. I love to see people advance in this hobby, and it is my belief that every home in America should have a fish tank of some sort. It is clinically proven that watching one is therapeutic. So if I can help someone get joy from their tank, then I have no problem helping out where I can.:-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

I have another question for future reference - of COURSE I have another question! LOL!!! 

What role do lumens play and is that something I should pay attention to? 

Thanks again!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> I have another question for future reference - of COURSE I have another question! LOL!!!
> 
> What role do lumens play and is that something I should pay attention to?
> 
> Thanks again!


Crap, something I really don't understand myself. As far as I know, lumens is the measure of light intensity? I think. I really don't pay attention to it, and in smaller tanks I don't think it really matters as much as in big tanks. I know reefers pay really close attention to it, but as far as planted tanks go, I don't think we really need to worry about it. I don't think plants need as strong of light as corals do. I could be wrong though. You would have to ask someone who knows more on that than me. I am almost lost when it comes to that.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

sooo update.. I have my 10,000 k lamp in... and my amazon sword is dying. :/ I even put in flourite... the light is on 12 hrs a day. Just the tips are dying off right now.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> Crap, something I really don't understand myself. As far as I know, lumens is the measure of light intensity? I think. I really don't pay attention to it, and in smaller tanks I don't think it really matters as much as in big tanks. I know reefers pay really close attention to it, but as far as planted tanks go, I don't think we really need to worry about it. I don't think plants need as strong of light as corals do. I could be wrong though. You would have to ask someone who knows more on that than me. I am almost lost when it comes to that.


Ok then - I'll just ignore lumens!!! :-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> sooo update.. I have my 10,000 k lamp in... and my amazon sword is dying. :/ I even put in flourite... the light is on 12 hrs a day. Just the tips are dying off right now.


As far as I understand it, the higher the K rating is not always better where plants are concerned. The K rating has to do with where the light peaks in which color zones. The 6700K lights are better for plants since they peak in the red & blue color ranges, I believe. 

Yes, the plant lights ARE dimmer, but you can still see your tank, fish & plants just fine and they are actually better for the plants than the bright white lights is what I get out of the info cableguy has been so kind to share with me! :-D


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

but dont the 6500k's give off oogly yellow light?


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> As far as I understand it, the higher the K rating is not always better where plants are concerned. The K rating has to do with where the light peaks in which color zones. The 6700K lights are better for plants since they peak in the red & blue color ranges, I believe.
> 
> Yes, the plant lights ARE dimmer, but you can still see your tank, fish & plants just fine and they are actually better for the plants than the bright white lights is what I get out of the info cableguy has been so kind to share with me! :-D


+1. You have learned well grasshopper. :-D



smellsfishie said:


> but dont the 6500k's give off oogly yellow light?


Do you know what kind of sword plant it is? If I am not mistaken and my book is correct, I believe that is a Echinodorus bleheri. Echinodorus amazonicus leaves in good light will turn a golden red coloration. I don't think this is your case though. Is it the lower leaves that are dying off? Are they turning yellow from the tip inward? If that is the case, it is a magnesium deficiency and a good all around fertilizer should take care of the problem. It may have nothing to do with light. A current picture of your tank would help out greatly at this point though. Maybe a picture of just the plant itself. And sorry for Lion Mom and myself hijacking your thread.  If you need any help don't hesitate to ask.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

haha that's ok for the hijacking  I am sooo lazy and don't want to post a pic  but maybe tomorrow. basically the plant (was sold as an amazon sword) is dying off at the tips. The basic structure is completely in tact but the tips have essentially disintegrated down to a white thread, with yellow then brown edges, then the green of the plant. this is probably more work to describe it than to just take a pic........ blarg. Anyway, does that make sense?


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

to describe it better, the tips have gone clear


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

smellsfishie said:


> haha that's ok for the hijacking  I am sooo lazy and don't want to post a pic  but maybe tomorrow. basically the plant (was sold as an amazon sword) is dying off at the tips. The basic structure is completely in tact but the tips have essentially disintegrated down to a white thread, with yellow then brown edges, then the green of the plant. this is probably more work to describe it than to just take a pic........ blarg. Anyway, does that make sense?


Actually, that helps. I suspect you need some fertilizer. Sword plants are heavy root feeders. Even with good plant substrate there may not be enough nutrients in it for the plant. I would suggest using some fertilizer tabs in your substrate near the plant. You can also/instead, start dosing a liquid fertilizer with every water change. I use Flourish in my tanks, and am getting good results from it. Especially in my nano, that just has black sand as a substrate. I would try using some fertilizer first and see if that is it. If not, then it may be water quality or maybe there is not enough light. (Why didn't I think of that first? DOH!) You may have to ramp up your light to 2 to 4 watts per gallon. Only a little experimentation will be able to tell on the light aspect of it.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Ok then - I'll just ignore lumens!!! :-D


Lumen - The measure of the amount of light energy emanating from a source A stated by John Tullock in Saltwater Aquarium Models. (The world wide web at my fingertips, and I still use books from time to time. Go figure.) Beyond the definition, I am lost and would have to do some more research on the subject.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

okay.. I have been using flourish so I'll try to find a root tab fertilizer. thanks!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

smellsfishie said:


> okay.. I have been using flourish so I'll try to find a root tab fertilizer. thanks!


No problem.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

"+1. You have learned well grasshopper."

Thank you, Master! LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> but dont the 6500k's give off oogly yellow light?


Just got my new tubes today and, yes, the water is a greenish, yellowish color. HOWEVER, and I am probably a strange one, I LIKE it! It reminds me of how it looks swimming underwater. 

But that's just me. :-D

In any event, I wanted what was best for my plants so it's all good as far as I'm concerned.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

post a pic!


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> post a pic!


Oh geez - I am SO bad at taking pics of my tanks!!! 

I will try within the next few days, though. 

It just looks SO natural to me and reminds me of when I was a kid & would swim underwater with my eyes open!!! :-D


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

neat! I want to see  It might help me decide if I want a 6500k too..


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> neat! I want to see  It might help me decide if I want a 6500k too..


I don't know what kind of set up you have, but I have a two tube fixture on my 38 gal. I have one of these:

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/Mer...ategory_Code=FL Full Spectrum&Product_Count=3

Which is 6280K and costs $10.94

AND one of these (which is 6500K) and only costs $3.59!!!! :-D

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/T12/F20T12-D

I think next time I am going to order two of the $3.59 jobs & see how that goes.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Oh, Cableguy, I have ANOTHER light question. Who woulda thunk? LOL!!! 

In NON-planted tanks can the bulbs be used till they burn out? Just wondering since I have to replace the two on my planted tank in 6 months, can I use the "old" bulbs for my cichlid tanks? Happily, those two tanks tank the same size bulbs. 

Once again - THANK YOU!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> Oh, Cableguy, I have ANOTHER light question. Who woulda thunk? LOL!!!
> 
> In NON-planted tanks can the bulbs be used till they burn out? Just wondering since I have to replace the two on my planted tank in 6 months, can I use the "old" bulbs for my cichlid tanks? Happily, those two tanks tank the same size bulbs.
> 
> Once again - THANK YOU!


In non planted tanks, the light can be used until they burn out. Fish do not need the light for anything but to simulate daylight, and people like the light so they can see the tank. That would be a great way to recycle those light and get your money's worth. I would encourage that. Now I wish I had a non planted tank to do that. Oh well. :-D


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

"Now I wish I had a non planted tank to do that. Oh well. "

You can always set one up!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> "Now I wish I had a non planted tank to do that. Oh well. "
> 
> You can always set one up!


I would need like 2 or 3 just to use all the lights I use between the reptiles and all the fish tanks. lol. But any excuse to set up another tank is good in my book.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> i would need like 2 or 3 just to use all the lights i use between the reptiles and all the fish tanks. Lol. But any excuse to set up another tank is good in my book.


i agree, i agree!!!! :-d :-d :-d


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> neat! I want to see  It might help me decide if I want a 6500k too..


Here are a couple as promised. Like I said, though, I take AWFUL pics and these REALLY don't do the tank justice!!!! :-(


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> i agree, i agree!!!! :-d :-d :-d


Now, I just need to get my fish room built and I am good.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks for sharing the pics! Tank looks good


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> Thanks for sharing the pics! Tank looks good


You're welcome & thank you. 

Like I said, it looks MUCH better in person and it will look better yet when I get some more plants. If it weren't for darn bills, it would be loaded with plants ALREADY!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't suppose the husband would be too happy if I told him I spent the house payment on aquarium plants!!! He is SUCH a grump that way - LOL!!!!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

How are things going with these tanks and lights?


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> How are things going with these tanks and lights?


WOW - forgot all about this thread already! :lol:

To answer your question - so far, so good! :-D


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## lordadamar (Aug 24, 2011)

Stay away from 10k bulbs unless you have a Dual / Tri / quad bulb fixture.. 10k is to blue....

I posted the light info in another thread wish I could find it...

Freshwater optimum range is 6500 to 8500k

Saltwater optimum range is 8500 to 10k 

You need the red / yellow spectrum lights for photosynthesis to happen in fresh water... Green / blue is useless


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Most freshwater plants see 3 color spectrum....Blue, Red and green...blue-most highly transmitted under water for photosynthesis.....Red-only penetrates 12 in..red alone can cause leggy plants-Green-helps to make the tank look more natural to us and has little to do with photosynthesis because it is reflected by most plants-but it is used to a degree by some species of plants...all 3 are needed for good plant growth, limited algae that is also pleasing to our eye......

Sunlight peaks in the blue spectrum (5500-6700k)...chlorophyll used by most of the plants for photosynthesis uses mostly blue and red color spectrum and what penetrate the water best...using blue, green and red spectrum help make the tank color look more pleasing to the eye, encourages photosynthesis of the plants...a balance...
For deeper tanks (20inches +) higher kelvin can be used and needed..too high of kelvin in shallow tanks the plants will grow but so will the algae..

With fluorescent bulbs- light output drops over time (1yr) and color spectrum is lost in regards to what the plant can use for energy...we can still see the light but the plants can't and why you need to change the bulb every year for best plant growth...

Photo period/duration-most plants in nature have 12h/day lighting...10h of intense lighting and 2h of less intense lighting with 10h of total darkness and 2h of partial darkness...plants need day/night light cycle just like the livestock to rest for their biological function.
You can trick plants into going dormant, flowering and even death by long term decrease in lighting and too long or wrong light/color spectrum can do the same thing as well as causing algae problems....

The balance.....


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Lion Mom said:


> WOW - forgot all about this thread already! :lol:
> 
> To answer your question - so far, so good! :-D


That is good to hear. How is the plant growth?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks for necro-bumping this thread, Cableguy. I would not have found it otherwise.

I just installed a 6500K screw-in lamp over my tank. It doesn't exhibit an 'oogly' yellowish light. In fact it is obnoxiously blue, like an old factory or 1960s office. (You kids will have to imagine a ghastly blue-grey zombie glow like from a TV). It's even bluer than high-altitude mid-day sun, the kind of light I'd use a warming or skylight filter to photograph in.

My new plants might like it but, since my tank is in my kitchen, it makes food preparation rather unappetizing.

It is not clear to me, from the previous discussion, whether I should go higher or lower in Kelvin to adjust the light to my comfort while still benefiting my plants.

Thank you LM, Cable, OFL and all for this great information.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Hallyx said:


> Thanks for necro-bumping this thread, Cableguy. I would not have found it otherwise.
> 
> I just installed a 6500K screw-in lamp over my tank. It doesn't exhibit an 'oogly' yellowish light. In fact it is obnoxiously blue, like an old factory or 1960s office. (You kids will have to imagine a ghastly blue-grey zombie glow like from a TV). It's even bluer than high-altitude mid-day sun, the kind of light I'd use a warming or skylight filter to photograph in.
> 
> ...


No problem. Always happy to bring important threads back from the dead. Lol.

I am not sure why it is so blue. You could try getting another bulb of the same Kelvin but different brand and see if that works. I know some brands are off a little bit in their color spectrum. It happens. If all else fails, you can bump up the Kelvin a little bit. But try the new bulb thing first. Good luck.:-D


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I've always wondered why all my tanks look yellowish in pictures. Now I have my answer. They all have 6500k lights. I'm forever trying to adjust my photos. 

I recently picked up a two bulb terrarium hood light for my 16 bowfront to get it up to 2 watts per gallon. Do you guys thinkg this would be okay to use? I'm going to put two 15 watt 6500 cfls in it vs the UV/Heat bulb combo that you're supposed to put in it. There would be a glass top between the light and the water. It's very, very hard to find a double strip light that's 18-20 inches.


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## lordadamar (Aug 24, 2011)

An add to my previous post as to not add blue or green light...

Stick with flora lights and colormax plant grow bulbs

This is why...

To maximize the photobiological process in plants, add more red AND blue spectrum, as plants require both red and blue enhancements. The use of a floral bulb with a daylight bulb will give good visuals AND healthy plants. * (Remember, if you use plant-enhancing daylight with added red and blue spectrums, you may also increase the undesireable algae growth in your tank, so don't enhance these spectrums unless you have adequate freshwater plants to battle for the algae nutrients)*

Most people will create a massive algae problem for themselves by using any bulb over 8500k...

It not that they dont do what they should its that most hobbyist aquariums do not have adequate plants or animals or enough room in there bio load to manage these in smaller tanks...


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

vaygirl said:


> I've always wondered why all my tanks look yellowish in pictures. Now I have my answer. They all have 6500k lights. I'm forever trying to adjust my photos.
> 
> I recently picked up a two bulb terrarium hood light for my 16 bowfront to get it up to 2 watts per gallon. Do you guys thinkg this would be okay to use? I'm going to put two 15 watt 6500 cfls in it vs the UV/Heat bulb combo that you're supposed to put in it. There would be a glass top between the light and the water. It's very, very hard to find a double strip light that's 18-20 inches.


That should be fine. I would just watch the fixture temp if you use the spiral lights, but it should be OK.


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## lordadamar (Aug 24, 2011)

Another fun fact:

You would have to have a fish tank 30 feet deep to not see yellow and red wave lengths... it somewhere around the depth where those color spectrum are absorbed by the water...

Unless you completely replaced your light with Actinic bulbs


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That is so true lordadamar...using kelvin rating or color temp over 8500k can cause algae problems unless you have enough of the right kind of plants to out compete the algae...its not that 8500-10,000k bulbs won't grow plants...they will....but you can also grow a great algae farm especially in shallow tanks with limited plants...its a balance....but with just 6500k...you can get that yellow look to our viewing eye....right color temp for plants but not so pleasing to the eye......by adding a second tube in either higher or lower color temp can help this and still grow plants...but you have to be able to add a second tube......


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## lordadamar (Aug 24, 2011)

Here is a couple of example you should be able to find at any pet store

Flora bulb 5000k

http://www.petsolutions.com/storefr.../prodFloraSunMaximumPlantGrowthT5HOBulbs.html

Daylight Bulb 6500k

http://www.petsolutions.com/storefr...bulbs/prodUltraSunSuperDaylightT5HOBulbs.html

I should have posted these in the previous post, I think actual products aid in the learning process its easy to talk about these thing for some of us but some are probably saying WTF???

NOTE: manufacturers Suggest changing bulbs every 6-8 months as they will not continually produce the light spectrum you will need


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks! They're spiral. I couldn't find the longer ones. I tried. I was on the verge of going LED but I didn't wanna spend 200 dollars on a light. 

This is the hood:
Amazon.com: Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium Hood, 18-Inch: Everything Else

My tank is a 16 gallon bowfront (tall). I have good growth on my crypts, anubias and java fern but my Wisteria gets all spindly. I'll keep an eye on the light. I'm home all day. I have spiral daylights (9watts) in my 5 gallons and they get warm but not so warm that anything melts. They all have wonderful plant growth. 

I don't really mind the yellow. That's why I have photoshop!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm really confused by the references to 6500K bulbs as having a yellow cast. 

After spending hours researching color temperature on Wiki, GE, Foster&Smith and other references, I have to conclude that 6500K IS BLUE.... actually the approximate color temperature of noontime summer sunlight (on an light overcast day). No matter how happy that may make my plants, that's not a light I can live with indoors. 

So, I'm going to have to have a fight --- or compromise --- with my plants. I'll try to get used to 5000K (overhead sun clear day... a slightly more yellow, cooler color temp). If my chosen plants can live in that, fine. If not, I'll have to give up on my plans for a NPT.


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## lordadamar (Aug 24, 2011)

Its not that the bulb has an inherently yellow cast of light In fact the two bulbs I listed above one glows blue and one glows red...

Where the yellow comes from is water absorption rates and free floating organic particles...

For instance in medium to heavy planted tanks or tank with floating plants there will be a certain level organic particles in the water giving a yellow hue.. 

Diftwood and other natural decor will also cause a yellow hue...

6500k is really not that bright, I have a 10k blue that will light up a 500 square foot room... 

5000k light are often referred to a Plant grow lights, though they mainly offer only a concentrated red spectrum...

Your plants should do fine, you might have to only get low light plants but there are still many choices... 

examples here http://www.shop.plantedaquariumscentral.com/Low-Light-Plants_c17.htm


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

i've been using the 10,000k light in my planted tank, and it is doing ok. The plants have not overgrown, but there has been some growth. There have also been a few plants that died. Or i should say some leaves died. I am now adding flourish and flourish excel... cannot get the baby tears to grow, they all died within a few days...  but other plants are ok.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

lordadamar said:


> Where the yellow comes from is water absorption rates and free floating organic particles...
> 
> For instance in medium to heavy planted tanks or tank with floating plants there will be a certain level organic particles in the water giving a yellow hue..
> 
> ...


I guess the confusion arises from the fact that I don't use a hood over my tank, merely a bulb screwed into the wall about about 8-inches over the waterline. It's the light that shines out from the bulb, unconstrained by a hood that drives me nuts. Actually, the light in the tank, especially with some Rioobos tea, is suitably still-jungle-pool for my eye.

I've spent entirely too much on this hobby, already, so a hood/light-fixture is out of the question. Maybe I can get a double socket adapter and augment my 6500K with a 2700 (which I have) to keep the room looking more 'homey.

Thanks for the help...and for the link. Lots of good ideas, there. And further ways to spend yet more money. (sigh)


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