# Betta severely bloated.



## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? *3 gallon*
What temperature is your tank? *78-80*
Does your tank have a filter? *yes*
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *filter causes some bubbles*
Is your tank heated? *yes*
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *None, but did have pond snails a few weeks ago. I cleaned out his tank and removed them all.*

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? *Hikari micro pellets, sometimes aqueon pellets*
How often do you feed your betta fish? *Once a day, a few pellets*

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? *Every Saturday, 50-75%*
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? *50-75%*
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *Decholrinator*

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *Severely bloated belly and it looks like he's getting bigger...*
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? *Not much except, slightly decreased appetite a few days ago. Fasted him a day and a half so far thinking it might be overfeeding.

* When did you start noticing the symptoms? *Started half a week ago.*
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? *Read to try giving him a little bit of pea. He only ate a tiny bit the first attempt.*
Does your fish have any history of being ill? *Months ago he had a tiny hole in his tail.*
How old is your fish (approximately)? *Maybe a year.*
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? *No, he swims around like normal.*



I think he's getting more bloated. I have a 1 gallon currently set up in case his condition changes. I gravel vacced his tank twice this week, but don't believe I saw any poo.

I think it might be constipation, but I have no clue. Would it hurt to try treating him for it anyway?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Hmm.. poor guy he is severely bloated.

I don't believe it's over feeding, as you are actually feeding on the low end. How is his waste? Is it normal brown-redish coloration?

I would go ahead and start him on some Epsom Salt-

Plain fragrance free Epsom Salt you buy in the pharmacy dept, 2 tsp per gallon- dissolve prior to adding him in it, daily 100% water changes. It may take 8-10 days before he is doing better if it's just bloating.

If the Epsom doesn't lower the swelling in 10 days then he may have a tumor of sorts... but for now, the best method of treatment is the Epsom. It's soft and gentle and will reduce the swelling and if he is constipated, will help him expel the waste. Go ahead and fast him for 3-4 days while in the Epsom Salt, a day and a half won't make much of a difference for him. When you start feeding him again, start slowly- 1 pellet per meal twice daily and see how he handles that, then work your way up to 2-3 pellets per meal, twice daily.

Feeding one meal a day you risk either over feeding or under feeding- over feeding in a single meal can cause bloating and SBD problems. 2 small meals per day is more ideal- 2-3 pellets per meal is a fair amount.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you. I will give start the epsom tonight.


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## dormfish (Sep 4, 2011)

Keep us updated  Best of luck to you and your guy there !


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you, I will! He started his Epsom treatment last night. 

You know... I caught my cat drinking out of the tank a few days ago. I put weights and papers to cover up the small space for the filter, maybe she could have infected him.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

If it's an actual infection and not just bloat from overfeeding he will need actual meds. The epsom salts removes the excess fluid but it is not going to treat the infection. Give him a couple days of fasting and epsom salts but if he's not a lot better in a few days to week, or you see him continue to get worse you're going to want to add some meds in there. If it's bacterial in nature you will want something like Kanaplex by Seachem and Focus also by Seachem. Bathing in the Kanaplex and feeding pellets soaked in it will clear this up. Up to two weeks is ok for this. Take one measure each of Focus and Kanaplex and dissolve it in either a small amount of treated water or Garlic Guard (100% garlic juice extract) or you could also use vita chem. Soak the aqueon pellets (they're typical size right not the micro?) in this 10-15min and feed 2 twice a day. I would treat a full two weeks or at least a few days past when he looks 100% if it doesn't take the full two weeks to clear. If Kanaplex is not available you can try Maracyn and Maracyn 2 in combo or Maracyn Plus.

How many is "a few" pellets? Once per day doesn't really say how much he's getting.

I am also wondering how often he poops and what his poop looks like.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for the med info. I take a spoon and scoop up the pellets. If its the aqueon, since they are bigger, I usually pick up 3-5... The micro pellets are tiny so I give him double that. I do have brine shrimp and blood worms, but I've been laxed and haven't given him any in weeks.

I can't comment yet on his waste. I have him in a cube with no gravel so I'm waiting for him to "go."


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

At this point it would be a good idea to get him something bare bottomed. Normally I'd say just take out the gravel but you've got a filtered setup there and you don't want to disrupt that. It would be also good for medication purposes since the meds will be very hard on the beneficial bacterial. If you don't have anything you can get heated you can maybe affix a smaller container inside the heated one so he can maintain temp and you can watch his poo and medicate there. The meds might not break it down completely but you're going to want to monitor carefully, as if you were restarting a cycle, if you choose to treat in the tank and definitely keep up on the changes.

5 pellets in a single serving is too much but 3-5 a day split up twice is good. The reason is that bettas have stomachs the size of their eyes so that is like a meal 5x their stomach. I don't know if stuffing him all in one go can cause constipation since over 24hrs that's an ok amount or not.. no experience with this but it would seem logical that it's possible.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Kisa, I'd advise leaving him in the epsom salts for a few days before trying medications. Overmedicating can be just as harmful as undermedicating. If you medicate too often, you run the risk of the fish building up an immunity to the meds so they won't work when you really need them.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah, I'm keeping him in the epsom salt water. I just did a 100% change into a slightly bigger tank. There was nothing in the water at all... he hasn't pooed yet and it's been 24 hours. On the bright side, his behavior is the same. Still swimming around like normal. I feel bad for him... ;_;


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Try upping his epsom salt dosage to 3 tsps per gallon. It can take a few days for it to start working. It does sound like he has a pretty bad case of constipation. Since he's eating, you might try feeding him frozen brine shrimp (not freeze-dried but frozen). It can act as a mild laxative and encourage them to "go." 

My other concern is that might possibly be a tumor.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Have to second that.. a lot of problems can be taken care of easily conservatively with salts. Medications can cause bad reactions when it's used for every little ailment. It can easily take 8-10 days for the bloating and swelling to disappear. 

Wish you the best.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

*Same Problem*

Reading this thread with interest as my red VT started getting bloated at weekend. I have starved him this week. He is in a 10 gallon fully planted tank with filter and heater and has 6 pygmy corys for tank mates. Problem is he eats his pellets then goes for the corys food. He was in my comm tank for a year before I moved him to his own set up 3 months ago and never had a problem.
I have never had to use Epsom salts before so I'll need to move him to a 3 gall QT that currently has a long arm machrobrachium sp. in it. I will move that out to a 5 gall that currently houses 3 male guppies and move them up to my 50 gal comm tank. Anyway, hope it is just a constipation problem and not dropsy or a tumour. Isn't fish keeping fun!;-)


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## gossipgirl1031 (Dec 7, 2011)

I took home one from Petco on the 23rd of January that was pretty bloated like these guys except that he had gone horizontal. I didn't think he'd make it through the night, but decided to take him home and make him comfortable & try the Epsom. A day and a half later, he took a giant poo and has been fine. He does seem to store it up for a few days and then go really big. I had him in a bare bottomed QT so I could monitor it. And I did fast him too. Good luck!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

allan47 said:


> Reading this thread with interest as my red VT started getting bloated at weekend. I have starved him this week. He is in a 10 gallon fully planted tank with filter and heater and has 6 pygmy corys for tank mates. Problem is he eats his pellets then goes for the corys food. He was in my comm tank for a year before I moved him to his own set up 3 months ago and never had a problem.
> I have never had to use Epsom salts before so I'll need to move him to a 3 gall QT that currently has a long arm machrobrachium sp. in it. I will move that out to a 5 gall that currently houses 3 male guppies and move them up to my 50 gal comm tank. Anyway, hope it is just a constipation problem and not dropsy or a tumour. Isn't fish keeping fun!;-)


Allan, the dosage for your guy would be the same, 3 tsps per gallon. I had a similar problem when I tried to keep bettas with cories; they ate all the cory cat's food and just got huge. A fasting and epsom salt treatment did the trick. Good luck with your guy!


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I upped the Epsom to 3 tsp last night. Goodness gracious, he still has not pooed. I also gave him a little bit of brine shrimp and he took that.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks Sakura and Gossip girl. I'll certainly give the Epsom salts a go @ 3 tpsp per gal.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I've seen it take up to 4 days in the epsoms. Let us know and make sure to note what the poop looks like when it comes.. It sounds like he going to end up needing meds but we will see. It looks like it's been 5 days since your original post. Has there been any improvement at all?


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I think he's either bloated the same or just slightly less. However, he still has not pooed 
I gave him brine shrimp two days ago. He eats like normal. Last night he was hanging at the bottom looking a little clamped. I'll post again once I check him this morning.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah, he hasn't pooped at all. I guess it's about time to try meds? Can you even medicate constipation?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can't medicate constipation, unfortunately. Keep trying with the brine shrimp and the epsom salts for another day at least at 3 tsps per gallon. There could also be something else internal going on that is preventing him from passing any waste. If his little intestines got twisted or kinked up or something like that (similar to colic in horses). 

If he shows no signs of pooping, we'll consider alternative treatment.

Are you only feeding him brine shrimp? While he is constipated, don't feed him any pellets, just frozen foods. I don't want to take a risk that the pellets cause any more blockage.

Do you think you can get some tannins in the water? Indian Almond Leaf (IAL) is the best but hard to find. If you can't find IAL, try clean and dried oak leaves. Crumble some into the tank so the water turns a dark brown. 

I hope he goes soon. Seriously, it can take a while.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. I'm sticking with brine shrimp.

About the tannins... I just googled it, but can I order this?

http://www.joshsfrogs.com/indian-almond-leaves-5-pack.html


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, those are exactly what IAL are.  Tannins have mild medicinal properties as well as recreating the same dark tan water that bettas naturally come from. Maybe the darker water will help him feel more . . . relaxed.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Sounds good. I'll order it right now.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I have seen internal infections be the cause of constipation, so in these cases yes you can medicate to relieve it. I've seen it work. I would move onto medication at this point but it's up to you. I would try Maracyn and Marcyn 2 in combo or Maracyn Plus. Kanaplex maybe if you can find it but this is better fed in my experience so maybe not until you get him going.. a week without poop and 3 tsp per gallon of epsoms is really extreme.

I wouldn't feed -anything- until he goes. It doesn't matter what you feed if it's not moving out it's still getting just as backed up in there.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Brine shrimp can act as a laxative because it has fiber. I wouldn't recommend medicating with Maracyn in this case because there are no indicators that this is bacterial in nature and the Maracyns could do more harm than good. 

It's entirely up to you, Kisa, on how long you want to try epsom salt. If you feel like that is not going to work and you would like to try medication then I recommend trying to find a medication called metronidazole. This medication will treat both internal parasites and some internal bacterial infections so it would cover all your bases. 

A local tropical fish store may carry Hikari HealthAid Metro or you could even ask a veterinarian for a tablet of metronidazole - it is commonly used as a dewormer in cats and dogs. Alternatively, you can go to Petsmart and look at the canine/feline dewormers on the market and see if any of them contain metro. I don't know if any of them do; most of them contain praziquantel.

If you do choose to use metro, it will need to be administed via feeding. I can give you advice on mixing it up with frozen bloodworms for feeding if medication is the route you choose.

Either way, I sure hope your little guy goes soon. Oh! Almost forgot. You can try to flare him. Sometimes, and I don't know why, getting a betta to flare makes them go. All that hyperactivity, I guess. See if you can get him good and excited, really riled up. Often, they poo a big one after flaring like that.


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## dormfish (Sep 4, 2011)

I flare my guys, as well, for the same reason. Helps keep them regular.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

I now have my guy in epsom salts in a 10 litre QT. I started with 4 tsps yesterday and added another today. 10 litres is about 2.5 US gals so that is 2 tsps per gallon. Seems to be some disagreement whether to use 3 tsps per gallon or if that is too extreme. 
It is a week since he fed and is getting more bloated so I'll see if a few more days in the epsom salts works.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Allan, has your guy pooped? If he's pooping regularly and still bloated, then the cause of his problems isn't constipation but something else either bacterial or parasitic in nature.

In my experience, 3 tsps per gallon doesn't hurt them. Epsom salts are fairly mild and bettas can tolerate high levels pretty well. As always, be prepared to yank your guy out if he shows any signs of distress in higher levels of anything, be it epsom or aquarium salts or medications.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

He hasn't taken any shrimp today or yesterday... I think he lost his appetite. I'll try the flaring route and then if that doesn't work... oh boy.

EDIT:

Here's a pic I took a day ago and today... still looks the same I think.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If that doesn't work, it's time to move to medication. You can still try the Hikari HealthAid Metro I talked about earlier or you can call out the big guns and look for a product called Seachem Kanaplex. This is a prescription strength antibiotic but it can be hard to find in store. Most people have to order it online. I got mine from here:
www.kensfish.com

Losing the appetite is never a good sign.  I hope he doesn't have a blockage somewhere. Keep him in the epsoms and we'll work on the medication part.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

This is frustrating. He's my first betta and it's killing me to see him like this. I've already ordered teh indiana almond leaves and it should arrive in 2-3 days. I'm gonna go ahead and order that Kanaplex. Even if it doesn't work, I'll have it on hand if my other betta ever gets sick.

Really appreciate the help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No problem, I'm happy to help and I really hope some treatment works for him. When your first betta gets sick, it's very hard.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Allan, has your guy pooped? If he's pooping regularly and still bloated, then the cause of his problems isn't constipation but something else either bacterial or parasitic in nature.
> 
> In my experience, 3 tsps per gallon doesn't hurt them. Epsom salts are fairly mild and bettas can tolerate high levels pretty well. As always, be prepared to yank your guy out if he shows any signs of distress in higher levels of anything, be it epsom or aquarium salts or medications.


He has been in Epsom salts since Saturday so around 54 hours. I used a mirror tonight to get him to flare and a small amount of poop did come out however he is still extremely bloated as you can see from the pic. I am going to do a water change and up the Epsom salt dosage to 3 tsps per gallon as you suggest. I will also try him on some frozen brine shrimp or daphnia.
My wife works in a vets practice so she will get me a tablet of metronidazole tomorrow as a next step of needed.
Thanks Sakura. :-(


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Awww, poor lil guy. I hope yours get better too.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Allan, yikes! Your guy is definitely large. I'm glad you can get the metro easily. We'll try that and the 3 tsps for a few days and hope that does the trick. Otherwise . . . I hope it's not a tumor.

Kisa, how's your boy doing?


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I put the mirror in his tank for a few minutes twice today. He still hasn't pooed. Should I really not feed him anything?

He hangs around the bottom of the tank, but when he sees movement he'll swim around. I'm still doing 100% water change and 3 tsp epsom. I got notification the medication shipped and I should receive it 2-3 days. The Indian almond leaves will take longer. Should I forgo the leaves if it gets here after the meds?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No, you can still use the IAL. I can't believe he hasn't pooped yet.  Yeah, at this point, let's try a 3 day fast. It will be hard to resist feeding him but if things are going in and nothing's coming out, even the brine shrimp isn't going to help.

Poor boy, he must be so uncomfortable.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Allan, yikes! Your guy is definitely large. I'm glad you can get the metro easily. We'll try that and the 3 tsps for a few days and hope that does the trick. Otherwise . . . I hope it's not a tumor.


That's my fear Sakura however he did blow up from nothing to his current size in a week. Would a tumour grow that quickly?


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Allan, yikes! Your guy is definitely large. I'm glad you can get the metro easily. We'll try that and the 3 tsps for a few days and hope that does the trick. Otherwise . . . I hope it's not a tumor.
> 
> Kisa, how's your boy doing?


Sakura, how much of the tablet would you give and how do you mix it with bloodworm? I also thought about mixing it with Tetra Natura Bloodworm.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Allan, how many grams is the tablet? See if you can get 1 tsp out of it after it's been powdered. Then mix that with a bit of vegetable oil. Are the Tetra worms frozen? I'm worried freeze-dried would disintegrate. If you can get frozen worms, that would be even better. Otherwise, try mixing in a few of his normal pellets. Let them dry a bit and feed them to him like normal. If you can add in garlic juice to the mix, that would be even better 'cause he'd like the taste.

I suppose anything is possible. Tumors can grow fast but it would seem unusual for a tumor to get that large in a week.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Allan, how many grams is the tablet? See if you can get 1 tsp out of it after it's been powdered. Then mix that with a bit of vegetable oil. Are the Tetra worms frozen? I'm worried freeze-dried would disintegrate. If you can get frozen worms, that would be even better. Otherwise, try mixing in a few of his normal pellets. Let them dry a bit and feed them to him like normal. If you can add in garlic juice to the mix, that would be even better 'cause he'd like the taste.
> 
> I suppose anything is possible. Tumors can grow fast but it would seem unusual for a tumor to get that large in a week.


Thanks Sakura. I have three tablets 200 mg each. I have frozen bloodworm so will use that. Would you mix the 1tsp powdered tablet and veg oil with one cube of frozen bloodworm?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I would, yeah. You can then keep the medicated worms in a small container in the fridge for up to 3 days. I mean, it's probably best to make new batches every day but I don't think you lose too much effectiveness by keeping it. I hope this works for the little guy. Fingers are crossed now.


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks again Sakura.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Sakura, I got my Kannaplex in today. Should I treat in water without Epsom salt? And follow the dosing instructions?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Kisa, yes. Refresh my bad memory, is he still in his 3g or did we move him into a 1g? If it's his 3g, you can try to spoon out maybe 3/4s of a measurement (approximately enough for a 3g tank instead of the recommended 5g). If he's in a 1g, use the 5 cup method. You can also continue with the epsom salts during treatment.

5 cup method:
Find something that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water and add the dosage. Mix well. Now add 1/2 cup of the medicated water to his tank. Repeat this for water changes etc.

How is he doing, Kisa?


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Kisa, yes. Refresh my bad memory, is he still in his 3g or did we move him into a 1g? If it's his 3g, you can try to spoon out maybe 3/4s of a measurement (approximately enough for a 3g tank instead of the recommended 5g). If he's in a 1g, use the 5 cup method. You can also continue with the epsom salts during treatment.
> 
> 5 cup method:
> Find something that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water and add the dosage. Mix well. Now add 1/2 cup of the medicated water to his tank. Repeat this for water changes etc.
> ...


He's in a 1 gallon right now. For being starved so long, he's doing rather well. Still big like a balloon though. Can you explain a little more on the 5 cup method? I wish I had a scale, lol. It says 1 level per 5 gallon....


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay.  Fill up your spare container with 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Now add in one level measure of the Kanaplex and mix welll. Then pour 1/2 cup of the medicated water into his tank. This works by concentrating the medication so it's diluted to safe levels by the time you add it ito the tank. Like using koolaid powder, kinda.

Thank goodness fish can go so long without eating. Poor boy.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Okay.  Fill up your spare container with 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Now add in one level measure of the Kanaplex and mix welll. Then pour 1/2 cup of the medicated water into his tank. This works by concentrating the medication so it's diluted to safe levels by the time you add it ito the tank. Like using koolaid powder, kinda.
> 
> Thank goodness fish can go so long without eating. Poor boy.


Thanks so much, Sakura! So I can keep the other half for tomorrow's water change?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, you should be able to. But then I'd probably make up a new batch. Since your guy isn't eating, it doesn't pay to mix it up with frozen bloodworms so don't worry about that. Kanaplex is absorbed through the skin/gills really well so I'm not too worried about it reaching any internal infections he has. I hope this works for the poor little guy. 

If it doesn't, I'd be pretty worried it's a tumor because Kanaplex is one of the strongest, most effective antibiotics out there.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks as always, Sakura. I have the stuff diluted and waiting for the heater to get the water temp up. I hope it's not a tumor! He's been fasting for 3 days at least now. Can I offer him any food? I have frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms. Or maybe I should wait until tomorrow?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Does he seem like he wants to eat? Does he beg? If he's begging, try to get him to eat. What I worry about most is when a betta doesn't even beg. 

You're welcome, Kisa. I just hope we can get your guy and Allan's back to health. You both are doing a great job taking such good care of them.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The Kanaplex measure is for 5 gallons not 10 so the 1/2 cup measure is diluting it by half and it won't be effective. You want a full cup with the Kanaplex. Also as the Kanaplex dissolves quite well you don't need to use so much water. You can just use 5 tablespoons and then put 1 tablespoons in per gallon you have him in (1 tablespoon if he's in 1 gallon).

Also in my experience feeding Kanaplex along with the bath for internal infections is -a lot- more effective so I'd mix it up in his food as well by soaking pellets in a small amount of aquarium water + one measure of the Kanaplex. Soak for 10-15min and feed a couple pellets twice a day along with what's in the water. Mix up fresh each time, though some say not to the meds lose their effectiveness after 24 hours so I really would at least mix it up fresh every day if not every time.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I suck at math. Okay, we can try that. It's pretty hard to overdose Kanaplex. Thanks, Callistra.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

What you described is how to mix a 10g measure down to 1g, which is what most meds are for so totally understandable


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh, okay. Thanks for clarifying that.  Like I said, I'm very bad at math.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm not sure if he's ever begged or what that looks like, lol. I'm going to try to give my just a tiny bit. Thanks both of you!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Good luck, Kisa! Wishing the best for the little fellow.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Just a little update. I think he's finally showing signs of illness, besides the whole bloating thing. He's won't eat either shrimp or pellets (soaked in the kennaplex). Just hangs around the bottom of the tank. He's bigger I think and still no waste. Outcome doesn't look good.

I mixed a fresh batch of kennaplex water for him yesterday so he's been in there two days. In a few hours, I will do it again. The bottle says every two days with a max of 3 doses. Does that mean he shouldn't be in the meds for longer than six days?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

2 weeks is safe despite the tube warning but if he's not at least better after a week then the med isn't going to work for whatever he has.


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

awww good luck


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, Kisa. It might take more than one course of treatment for the meds to kick in. Callistra usually recommends treating dropsy for 14 days so don't let up on the meds. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the little guy. C'mon, buddy, you can do it!


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Well he has been on the metronidozole infused bloodworm treatment for 3 days now but just seems to be getting bigger. On the plus side he is still swimming and eating the medication but hard not to think it must be a tumour after two weeks. I do have clove oil ready but don't want to use it, at the same time would hate to think I am keeping him alive and he is suffering.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, usually metro works pretty fast. I don't know if you'd be able to get Seachem Kanaplex where you are or not. That's the brand name for kanamycin. If it was a really serious bacterial infection causing the bloating, I'd expect to see pineconing, lethargy, and loss of appetite. 

How does he swim, can he get along all right? Still eating, obviously. Does he seem like he's in any discomfort or distress?


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

He is still swimming around and still eating. He may rest a bit more on the artificial plant than usual but if it was not his extremely large swollen body, I would not see any symptoms of him being ill. Unfortunately we don't have access to the products you have in the US over here in the UK. Could not find anyone stocking Kanaplex or any product containing kanamycin. Seachem products here tend to be their water conditioners, buffers, plant ferts etc. The only product I could find for internal bacteria infections was 
*Interpet Aquarium Treatment Anti Internal Bacteria 9: Unique patented formulation that cures fish of internal systemic bacterial infections caused by Pseudomonas, Aeromonas and Vibrio bacteria species. *

Don't know if it is worth trying.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

My IAL came in the mail today. I didn't expect the leaves to be so huge. Going backwards in the thread I guess I just crumble it up and drop in the water? Just enough to darken it a little?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Kisa, you can actually just put a leaf in the water if you want. Bettas love to rest under or on them. Or you can crumble it, either way works. How is he doing, any better?

Allan, it's worth a shot. Do you know what the active ingredients in the Interpet product are?


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Got some today and dosed it in the QT. Active ingredients are Bronopol, Formaldehyde and Benzalkonium chloride.
I have thought about using Indian Almond leaves as a general tonic in the tanks. I already have mopani wood in them so the water is already a light brown from the tannins off the wood.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The formaldehyde probably won't do any good unless he's got internal parasites and I have no idea what the other ingredients are but at this point, I don''t think it can hurt. If you can get IAL, that would help but I imagine that's even harder to find I the UK than it is here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll see what he is like by weekend when I add second dose per instructions. After that, if he is still the same and still living, I am going to put him back in his planted tank and let nature take it's course.Let the wee guy enjoy the rest of his life in comfort rather than a plain QT.
Quite a few sellers of IAL on eBay in the UK.

Best of luck with your guy Kisa.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, Allan. I tend to agree with you - if none of the things we tried helped, it's most likely a tumor. But the good news is a betta can live comfortably with a tumor for quite some time.

Kisa, how is your little guy? Has the Kanaplex helped at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Last night he was beginning to look distressed and was dropping head first to the bottom when he tried to swim. Decided it was time and I would put him in clove oil today. However, he finally gave up before I got a chance to do that. I did an autopsy and found a the whole of the swollen area was filled with a lump of clear gel substance with some blood through it which I take is a form of tumour.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

Sorry to hear Allan 

He seems the same to me. He swims about when he sees movement. I'm tempted to just put him back in his normal tank and let him be. Maybe remove all the gravel to see if he EVER poops.

I'm still dosing the Kanaplex and salt. Should I quit doing that and just let him be? I don't want any adverse effects from using either too long. Oh, and the IAL is still being used too.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Allan, I'm so sorry about your boy. Good idea to do an autopsy, glad you weren't squeamish like I would have been. It does sound like a tumor. 

Kia's, you can keep him in maybe 1-2 tsp of Epsom salt per gallon and the IAL, but probably time to stop the Kanaplex. If it hasn't done anything by now, it's probably not a bacterial problem. It would be a good idea to keep him in a bare bottom tank for a while to see if his little system is working at all. If at any time he gets more bloated or his behavior changes, put him back in 3 tsp of Epsom salt and start the Kanaplex again. I wonder what's up with his little intestinal system.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allan47 (Dec 3, 2011)

Good luck with your guy Kisa. On the plus side I now have an empty 40 litre tank that he was in plus another one I just finished cycling. Still have my blue VT and plan to get a red HM BF and either a black or white HM next month.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I came home and inspected my betta. I noticed that he seemed to have lost his scales? Particularly at one spot... How can I tell if he's distressed? He swims around like normal, but just a tad bit slower because of his girth, I guess. He doesn't eat much anymore.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:/. You could tell if he's distressed if he lays on the bottom of the tank all the time and struggles to breathe. He's probably not hungry because his stomach is being compressed by whatever he has. I'm really sorry, Kisa, but it's starting to look like your guy may have a tumor too. In this case, there isn't much you can do but make sure he's comfortable. . You've done a great job caring for him but it's looking like we've tried most everything.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I think I need to put him out of his misery. I came home and it looks like his innards is trying to get out of his body... it's hard to explain, but I freaked seeing him. I don't have clove oil on hand. Anything else? Or should I run out and find some?


And if so, would this be the same as clove OIL? Might be in stock nearby.

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/...e=cs&source=FG&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=JZ-1032


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

D: D: I can't believe he's lived so long... this makes me so sad.

I've euthanized a few of my mother's fish by freezing them in a tiny bit of water... but I feel horribly every time I do it.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Try a local healthfood store or even grocery store. That's where I found mine.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

I called a place down the road and they have it. Thanks guys.


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## Kisa (Apr 16, 2011)

It's done. I cried.... thanks for all your help everyone. I learned a lot.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm sorry... You truly did everything you could.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so very sorry, Kisa. Kfish is right, you did everything you could and then some. He was a lucky guy to have such a caring owner. *hugs*


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