# 29gal Community Stock Check (+Other Qs)



## grike (Mar 24, 2015)

This got a bit long, but trying to be thorough. The questions are numbered and in bold, if you want a TL;DR quizlet. 

So my mom wants fish. She wanted "just a little fish that could be in a little bowl or something"; luckily, my dad knew my sister and I would skin him alive he got a bowl, and bought a 10gal kit. When I said stocking a community she'd like would be difficult in that, he upgraded to a 29gal kit. 

Comes with a tank, a hood with lights, a filter, and a heater (I'll check the heater and if it's not adjustable, suggest they switch). They also have an air bar, and I'm also pushing for more fake plants and hides.

I am only familiar with betta care, honestly, but I've been researching the other species I'm planning to stick in this tank, and will probably be the one to care for and maintain it. (I will obviously fishless cycle it first, of course.)

My parents really just planned to toss whatever fish they liked in, but I was able to stop that, thankfully. I've been trying to come up with stocking ideas that my mom likes, are compatible with each other, and able to fit that tank. Which has been tough, but I think I settled on some.
She has liked powder blue gouramis (a dwarf variant, I'd have liked to get a honey gourami which is smaller from what I've gathered, but no luck finding any local), neon tetras, and albino cories (a bronze variant).

All my research has indicated that they are all reasonably compatible and fairly suited to a tank that size, but I'd like opinions and to double check? I've read various care sheets, stocking suggetions, compatibility lists, and aqadvisor, to get a fairly rounded idea, but I always prefer to quadruple check.

I was planning: 1 (powder blue) dwarf gourami, 7 neon tetras, and 7 albino corys, for a total of 15 fishes.* 1A) Does that sound okay for a 29gal community setup? *(HOB filter only, no live plants.)

I know larger schools/shoals are even better, but I'm trying to keep a balance between the two without over-stocking or favoring one of them at the expense of another, so I'm inching over their suggested minimums as much as I can. 7 each, at 15 total fishes in the tank, seems to be the best for both of them and the tank as a whole. *1B) Are those school/shoal sizes decent for that size tank? Can I go any higher? *I don't think so, reasonably, but just asking.

I'm also gonna try to convince them away from their blue (fairly rough) gravel in favor of sand for the corys. 
They're concerned with aesthetic (one I find kinda ugly, tbh, but whatever), they don't see the point of a tank that doesn't "look good", so I'm hoping they'll be open to black sand, especially if I mention the maintenance difference (sand is typically considered easier to clean), which I am also planning on using setting up my own tank. 
*2) Is Black Diamond blasting grit okay for corys?* That's what I'm gonna cap my own tank with, so it'd be nice to only have to buy one bag for both of us. I also doubt they'll go for plain sand, looks-wise.

Also, possibly stupid question, but I'm just so used to viewing plastic plants as evil because bettas, but *3) neons, corys, and gouramis are fine with plastic plants, right? *
[*4) And with gouramis also being labyrinth breathers, do they need a hammock up top, too?* I never saw mention of that, and I don't think so since they don't have to battle with finnage like bettas, but still wondering. I have tons of craft mesh, so.]

Also, I'm trying to work out the logistics of quarantining so many, because we may have to get them all at once, since our nearest pet/fish stores are an hour away. 
We have two 10gal tanks available for QT setups (one is theirs, one is my own - I can spare it since my own tank is not inhabited, yet.) 

*5) If two of the species have been sharing water on the store's fish wall, must they be QT'd separately, if they've been sharing space anyway? *
Like, if the gourami and the corys have shared water, but the tetras weren't, should I only have to QT the tetras in one 10gal and the gourami and corys in the other? (I know 10gal will be cramped, but it will only be for a month or so, and I will monitor the water and their health closely.)

*6) Or if that is not advised, or the space is a genuine issue that cannot be overlooked, no matter how temporary, would it only be feasible to add them one species at a time gradually, with one species to a QT tank? *
If that would be the case, *7A) I assume it would be best to get the corys first, the tetras second *(since I read they need a fairly mature setup),* and the gourami last* (to avoid territorial aggression towards the others, since it had no claim before them)*?* 
*7B) If not, what order would you suggest to add them?*

Thanks for any help! Sorry if this is long and obvious, I promise I've been doing my research for a good while, I just prefer being absolutely sure, and I'm trying to work the best I can within the restrictions my parents tend to be stuck on. c:
* Any other suggestions/tips/advice beyond what I ask would be more than welcome! *
(My mom is super picky about fish looks, though, she wants bright colors (corys the exception), which is hard to find suitable species bright/colorful enough.)


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

www.aqadvisor.com. A bit conservative but a good guide. Cory also need a mature tank. Get live plants and the Gourami first.

Betta are about the only fish, IMO, that can do okay with fake plants. Other tropicals need live plants. Besides, they improve water quality.


----------



## grike (Mar 24, 2015)

@*RussellTheShihTzu* 
Thanks! c:
I mentioned that I did use aqadvisor for a baseline, but I know it's not gospel, so I was just asking for anyone with practical experience if they had anything to add. (My aqadvisor reading for the 15 stock wasn't quite at 100%, IIRC.) 

Didn't know corys needed a mature tank, too, that's good to know, and I'll get the gourami first. The gourami won't be stressed from claiming the tank first? Like, it wouldn't view the new fish added as intruders on its territory or anything? I'm not anticipating complete non-aggression, but would like to mitigate it as much has I can. I know adding with the lights off is a good way to add fish, but any other tips?

I know live plants improve water quality which is why I mentioned that in relation to filtration. I am planning on doing live plants for my own tank, but my parents would not be willing to shoulder the cost and maintenance of a live plant setup compared to fake when they are available. 
The need for lighting would also be a complete no-go, since they will be by my mom's bed and she often needs to sleep throughout the day. Small tank-hood LEDs wouldn't bother her, but lighting enough for plants would.

Fake plants aren't doable at all? Besides water quality, which I will monitor and maintain, why are fake plants not suitable for non-betta tropicals?


----------



## bandit1994 (Sep 24, 2015)

I have fake plants with my non-betta tropicals and I don't see y they don't work unless the fish is a grazer wich is y they r saying live plants and what about some of the killifish or minnows I have four big fatheads that I cant wait to get into a tank


----------



## grike (Mar 24, 2015)

@bandit1994

Thanks. c: 

Neither of those fish would appeal to my mom, and I don't think they would be suited to the tank anyway. 
A brief search on both tells me that most species of kilifish seem to be more suited to a species tank than a community, generally (there are exceptions, but I'd like to keep to the safe side for this tank, being inexperienced with communities, atm). Minnows also appear to have a temp range that's ever so slightly not ideally compatible with the fish I plan to stock, and I wouldn't want to subject them to a poor temperature range for them. That's a brief search, so may be wrong, but I'm not really looking for additional stock ideas as much as checking my current ones and seeking alternatives if there's an issue with my plan.



I also wouldn't want an additional schooling fish in there, as that would be a lot. I'd rather focus on increasing the number in the existing schools/shoals for their benefit, if I can/plan to add any fish. 



Thanks for the input on the plants. I'm really confused/surprised to hear about tropical fish and live plants. I've even heard of many aquarists who were forced to do fake plant setups for some of their tanks due to uprooting and the like. Wish I could get some more expansion on that.
I really can't figure out what live plants do for non-betta tropicals that fake plants couldn't do as well, besides water quality, but there are other ways to maintain quality than sticking plants in there.


Thanks for your time answering, though. c: I hope you enjoy your new fish!


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

It is my understanding fake and live plants don't have the same biofilm. Someone feel free to correct me.

As Betta are carnivores and don't feed on algae or biofilm it doesn't matter what you put in with them.

If the Cory and Gourami are in the same tank you can put them in the 29 and quarantine the Neons in the 10.

My stocking would be different: I would do the Gourami, five Cory and 10 Neons. While six is the recommended minimum I have found Cory (especially the larger ones) do just fine with five. Neons tend to be less nippy the more you have. Although that shouldln't be as much of a problem with a Gourami as it is with long-finned Betta.

You have a top dweller (doesn't need a hammock), mid-dwellers (Neons) and bottom-dwellers (Cory) which is what you want. Don't be concerned about having more Neons that Cory; they don't occupy the same space.

All sand is not the same and I don't know how sharp is Black Diamond Blasting grit. I prefer CaribSea Tahitian Moon sand (black).


----------



## bandit1994 (Sep 24, 2015)

you are welcome I love to help I have had tropical fish off and on for years and never had live plants I had barbs corys ciclids and a few others and never had live plants in any tank I think the live plants are if you have a type of grazer like my fatheads which will have live plants because they are known grazers and if you want live plants then go for it I am just telling you form what I know is that live plants are not needed but they cant hurt your tank its all up to u and how much work you want to put in to the tank


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Here are two articles on the pros and cons of artificial plants and real:

http://aquariadise.com/plastic-and-silk-aquarium-plants-pros-cons/

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/plantcare/a/realorfake.htm


----------



## grike (Mar 24, 2015)

Oh, gotcha. Fish are fed regularly with pellets and wafers and the like, though, is the biofilm a deal-breaking issue? Is there a nutrient in the film they cant get otherwise or something? (Usually when I think biofilm necessity, I think shrimp and the like, I rarely see it emphasized otherwise, so I'm not too up on that aspect of tanks.)

Thanks for the QT advice. I thought about just putting some straight to the 29 and quarantining the separated/newcomers, but wasn't sure it'd fly. I'll do that, then, that would save so much juggling! c:

I'm glad you mentioned the tetra vs cory ratio, because I was also wondering whether it would be better to prioritize the tetras in numbers over the corys. I gathered that while they both need a mininimum, tetras seem to be more sensitive to that sort of thing and benefit exponentially from increase in comparison. 
I'll tweak the numbers to favor a larger tetra school than cory shoal (although I'd be uncomfortable going under the minimum being new to these fish, I'll leave adjustments til I'm more familiar with them, so I'll go with the recommended 6 for now).

Thanks for the help! Really appreciate everything you've shared. c:

I hope more people can chime in on the fake plant and Black Diamond issues, since those are mainly what have me concerned now. (Aquarium sand is just so $$$ lol the Black Diamond comes in a bunch of different sizes, so I'm hoping there's at least one decent option that's cory-safe with it. I'm planning 20/40 or similar for my own tank which I see widely recommended, but I've never seen the rec in relation to corys specifically.)

EDIT: Just saw the new post, thanks for the links to the plant issue. While I am preferring live plants for my tank, I think fake ones are more suited to what my parents need/want/can manage, and since it doesn't appear to really _hurt_, I'll go with the fake ones for their tank for now. Thank you!


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The Cory will graze on the biofilm. Lots of fish do. I never see the Neons doing the same.

A lot of people use Black Diamond. If you Google you will find a lot of positive comments. I think there might be a certain grade one should use.


----------



## bandit1994 (Sep 24, 2015)

I think its more about what you want then biofilm as u can grow biofilm and the substart that u put in the tank I would go with live plants if u r setting up a biotope tank like I am for my minnows but I really think that it is all about what u want although form what I read the live plants don't give much in the way of o2 infact it seems the oppuset is true but that is just me I don't like live plants I have had a cory catfish which is now in a frinds tank that lived in a tank with fake plants and he is still going strong after three years


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

grike said:


> <<snip>> I hope more people can chime in on the fake plant and Black Diamond issues, since those are mainly what have me concerned now. (Aquarium sand is just so $$$ lol the Black Diamond comes in a bunch of different sizes, so I'm hoping there's at least one decent option that's cory-safe with it. I'm planning 20/40 or similar for my own tank which I see widely recommended, but I've never seen the rec in relation to corys specifically.)
> 
> EDIT: Just saw the new post, thanks for the links to the plant issue. While I am preferring live plants for my tank, I think fake ones are more suited to what my parents need/want/can manage, and since it doesn't appear to really _hurt_, I'll go with the fake ones for their tank for now. Thank you!


Yes, those links are quite informative. I like unbiased pros and cons over "I like" or "I don't like" whether one is trying to decide between fish, plants, breeds of dog, etc. 

While I prefer live plants I've seen some lovely silk-planted aquariums I wouldn't mind having. And, as you said, silk doesn't hurt anything. If someone wants convenience and low maintenance, which it sounds like your parents do, then I'd go silk all the way. I'd miss putzing around with my plants. ;-)

If you use the forum's search engine I'm sure you'll find dozens of posts about BD grit. I know I've seen a bunch. As I said, a lot of people are happy with it and it is less expensive than aquarium substrate.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Betta are about the only fish, IMO, that can do okay with fake plants. Other tropicals need live plants. Besides, they improve water quality.


I can't put live plants in my 30 gallon tank. I tried. My Congo Tetra make chef salads out of them. In a nano tank I had I don't know if it was the Celestial Pearl Danio or the Emerald Green Rasbora because I couldn't catch them, but one of them was ripping up the leaves on an anubias. The plant was so tatty that I eventually just tossed it. Silver dollars and some angels will eat plants. There's quite a few tropical fish (herbivores) that will either completely demolish a planted tank by eating them or nibble them and cause damage. You just have to research and see what type of plant they won't eat. Some of them are just not plant safe at all.


----------



## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

Just a thought I had because I was looking at what tank size I'd need before. If your parents are into crazy bright colors (with the blue it sounds like it) have you considered glofish? The zebra danio version, I mean? From my understanding zebras are pretty tough little fish and the glofish look really interesting. If I ever get a big enough tank for a community they're one of my first considerations. You could get a pretty decent mix of color for a visually appealing tank, maybe run with less different species but hive a bigger school for them? Just a thought if your mom likes the bright bright tanks?

Anyone with more experience is free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just thinking back to my grandma's unkillable zebras. lol


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Mousie said:


> I can't put live plants in my 30 gallon tank. I tried. My Congo Tetra make chef salads out of them. In a nano tank I had I don't know if it was the Celestial Pearl Danio or the Emerald Green Rasbora because I couldn't catch them, but one of them was ripping up the leaves on an anubias. The plant was so tatty that I eventually just tossed it. Silver dollars and some angels will eat plants. There's quite a few tropical fish (herbivores) that will either completely demolish a planted tank by eating them or nibble them and cause damage. You just have to research and see what type of plant they won't eat. Some of them are just not plant safe at all.


I keep fish to have an excuse for feeding my plant obsession. ;-)


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I keep fish to have an excuse for feeding my plant obsession. ;-)


LOL!

I have such crap luck with aquatic plants. I have an amazon sword that just looks pitiful. When I brought it home and right after I added it to plant substrate it looked so good at first. It even grew this beautiful offshoot that I had to cut because there was no room for it in the tank. I didn't want to throw it away, so I stuck it in the gravel substrate with the zebra danios. Do you know that stupid thing is the best looking aquatic plant I've been able to grow? In gravel no less. And it won't die lol.


----------



## grike (Mar 24, 2015)

elijahfeathers said:


> Just a thought I had because I was looking at what tank size I'd need before. If your parents are into crazy bright colors (with the blue it sounds like it) have you considered glofish? The zebra danio version, I mean? From my understanding zebras are pretty tough little fish and the glofish look really interesting. If I ever get a big enough tank for a community they're one of my first considerations. You could get a pretty decent mix of color for a visually appealing tank, maybe run with less different species but hive a bigger school for them? Just a thought if your mom likes the bright bright tanks?
> 
> Anyone with more experience is free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just thinking back to my grandma's unkillable zebras. lol


AHA Figured out how to do that replying thing. I think. Maybe.

Thanks for the recommendation. c: Yeah, she saw GloFish and she really liked those, too. 
I looked them up to see how they were made so bright (because I've heard of fish being dyed or tattooed) and while the modification isn't harmful and I don't really have a problem with that part of it, I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of patented or trademarked animals. Just doesn't seem right to me?
I don't like the idea of trademarking or patenting living organisms, not even plants, because that can be abused and I don't want to support that.

They're pretty neat, though! Interesting to read what they were originally intended for.

I think I'm pretty set on the species, since there doesn't seem to be an issue with those three together or their needs clashing, and my mom seemed to really like the others she picked out, too.

Good luck with getting a community tank! c:


----------

