# Lethargic Betta



## DukeTheFish (Jun 4, 2011)

Hi! I'm new to Betta fish ownership as I purchased my first from Petsmart yesterday.

Duke, the fish, seemed fine when I brought him home and put him in the aquarium but later in the day and for most of today he's been a bit lethargic and won't eat. I've cleaned his aquarium, changed the water, and all of that but I really think he's a little cold but the man at Petsmart said that he would be fine at room temperature. I put him under a translucent window so he will get the warmth from the sunlight but won't be exposed directly to the rays (it gets pretty hot here in Alabama!) Will that be okay for the fish? 

Thanks guys!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum and sorry you are having problems so early...

Need some more information...

What size is the tank, water temp, filter, live plants, additives used, type of food offered......how much and what kind of dechlorinator are you using....

Do you have a thermometer to check the water temp-its also important to monitor the water temp for water changes to keep the water within a couple of degrees between new and old and always use dechlorinator with new water added to the fish....

How did you acclimate him to your water when you first got him....

Its not uncommon for some Betta to have an adjustment period....sometimes it can take a week or two before they settle and eat and settle into a larger space as well...since most of their life they have been kept in small containers for grow-out/keeping....

Can you post a pic of both the Betta and setup.....


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## DukeTheFish (Jun 4, 2011)

I am sorry for the poor quality of the images. It was difficult to get a picture where you could actually see him. He's in a .5 gallon aquarium with a plastic plant. The water conditioner is Nutrafin Betta Plus and he is being fed Nutrafin Max color enhancing flakes. This all came in the kit I was sold. I did not know to get a thermometer and I was told not to get a filter. After reading more about Bettas I think I need to get a bigger aquarium. As far as getting him used to the new water, the guy at Petsmart said that the fish would be fine just being put in the new aquarium. The cup he was in was nasty so I cleaned the new aquarium, gavel, and plant in warm water ( I didn't use soap because I didn't think that would be good for him) and transferred him to his new place using a little net, trying to be careful not to hurt it. The water in both the cup and the little aquarium should have been close to the same temperature since they were both around room temp however I'm not sure what the difference was.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

thats the same tank i have atm until the 1 gal heated tank comes in. im new to this also. so i just going to mention that regardless if you warm the water to 28 degrees, it will most likely drop down to 20-22 celcius within 24 hrs depending on ambient temp in your house. it took mine 10 days to get used to the tank.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Did you add conditioner to the water?


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## DukeTheFish (Jun 4, 2011)

Yes, I do put conditioner in the water. The fish seems to be feeling better now, though. He's moving around and starting to eat again. Maybe it was just the adjustment to the new environment.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

it seems the majority of pet store employees don't really know what they're talking about :/
when you bring home a new fish you should slowly add some of the new water into the cup to let them get used to it. probably shocked him a bit


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## Canuck Fins (Oct 5, 2010)

In such a small tank, you'll likely need to do another water change today. Ammonia levels build up quickly in a half gallon of water. 

Nel3 is right that the temperature will drop. Without a heater, it'll likely be a couple of degrees less than room temperature. 

The other thing I'd recommend for your fish is a hiding spot. Even just a clean coffee mug on its side. I realize you don't have a lot of space, but your fish will be happier with a hiding spot. I'm not sure how flexible the plastic plant is for him to hide in. 

Good luck!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

DukeTheFish said:


> ( I didn't use soap because I didn't think that would be good for him)


Good, never use any soaps to clean his aquarium or anything that will go in his aquarium. Warm water will do just fine to rinse anything. 

In such a small tank, you'll need to do very frequent water changes, like 50% a day. It's strange but the larger the tank, the fewer changes you have to do. If you can, you might want to consider upgrading your Duke to a tank that is 2.5 gallons or more someday. In the long run, it's less work for you and Duke will be happier. 

Heat is another big issue. With luck, your local Petsmart should have a product like this Zoo Med Betta Bowl Heater.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4455060&lmdn=Fish+Heating

This is a good heater for a small tank. Bettas come from tropical waters that are very warm so he'll need water temps around 78-80 degrees farenheit (25-26 degrees celsius) to thrive. With warm water, you'll see him start to move around more. Of course, if you plan on getting a bigger tank very soon (next week or so), hold off on the Zoo Med heater and get a nice 50w one. 

I would definitely suggest also that you use a water conditioner like Seachem Prime. It's advertised to detoxify ammonia, which you may have more of since it's a small tank with no filter. It also will detoxify other things like heavy metals that can harm Duke. Prime may seem expensive at first but it's highly concentrated which means it will last a long time.

You said the NutraFin flakes were part of the kit you were sold? Then you haven't bought him food yet? I'd suggest pellets as they are easier to feed and won't mess up the water as much as flakes. There are several brands to choose from, too. Only feed him maybe 2 pellets about 3 times a day or he'll overeat. Bettas are little piggies when it comes to food.

You're on your way to being a great betta owner. Duke is lucky to have you.  And welcome to the forum.

One more thing: Get a thermometer so you can monitor the temperature. Water can heat up pretty fast so you want to make sure Duke's water isn't getting to warm there by the window. Even indirect sunlight can warm up pretty fast.


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## orphansparrow (Apr 30, 2011)

i agree with everything above. 

he would do best in at the very least a 2 gallon tank. that way you can put in a heater - too cold water makes bettas lethargic, and such a small container makes the temperature fluctuate too much, which is bad for their immune system.

also, in a 2 - 3 gallon tank, you will only have to do one 100% water change, and one 50% water change once a week. with the tank he is in, you will have to change the water every single day.

i also would recommend Prime as a high quality water conditioner. it removes not only chlorine, but also ammonia, and also detoxifies nitrates and nitrites. it's a really good one. 

above all - take the advice from petstore employees with a grain of salt. they usually don't know what they are talking about. i learned the hard way.


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## orphansparrow (Apr 30, 2011)

DukeTheFish said:


> I put him under a translucent window so he will get the warmth from the sunlight but won't be exposed directly to the rays (it gets pretty hot here in Alabama!) Will that be okay for the fish?


actually, that is NOT a good idea. in such a small container, being by a window will cause the temperature to fluctuate too much. temperature consistency is whats important.

like we already said above, he needs a heater - not because it's not warm where you live, but because it will keep the temperature consistent in his tank.

good luck!!


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

i havent seen too much difference with my .5 gal water temp and its usually near a window. from waht ive seen, it just drops down to slightly below room temp if not holds it a bit above room temp (but still below 26) a bit longer. 

how much more does prime water conditioner cost and which bottle size is the best deal. the nutrafin 2 fl oz needs 1 capful for each half gal. daily 100 wc makes it last rather short.


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## DukeTheFish (Jun 4, 2011)

Thank you so much for the advice, everyone! I've moved the aquarium to a warm spot in the apartment away from the window. I changed the water again today and will keep cleaning the aquarium until I get a new, 2.5 gallon aquarium this week! I'd heard about the pellets and I will get those when I get the new aquarium. 

Duke seems to be doing so much better. He's more active although he generally only eats one flake of food. I'm not really sure if he's just shy and doesn't like to come to the surface when I'm there or what's going on. 

I really appreciate the help!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

nel3 said:


> i havent seen too much difference with my .5 gal water temp and its usually near a window. from waht ive seen, it just drops down to slightly below room temp if not holds it a bit above room temp (but still below 26) a bit longer.
> 
> how much more does prime water conditioner cost and which bottle size is the best deal. the nutrafin 2 fl oz needs 1 capful for each half gal. daily 100 wc makes it last rather short.


Petco.com lists the regular price of Prime as $6.99 for 3.4 oz and $8.99 for 8.45 oz. It says each measuring thread on the cap is one ml. Its dosage is 1 capful for 50 gallons so I'd say one ml would work for you. Says the smaller size will treat up to 1,000g.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Petco.com lists the regular price of Prime as $6.99 for 3.4 oz and $8.99 for 8.45 oz. It says each measuring thread on the cap is one ml. Its dosage is 1 capful for 50 gallons so I'd say one ml would work for you. Says the smaller size will treat up to 1,000g.


thank you very much sakura, $7 for 3.4oz is a rather decent price given nutrafin costs $5 here. if i cant find it here would it be better to buy 2 small ones or 1 larger one to make it worth the shipping price? i'll be checking the pet shop today if they have it. not sure they might as they have alot of nutrafin products. though its a must have water conditioner for me for all the future water changes i'm going to do.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm not sure about the shipping prices. I'd say maybe get 2 smaller bottles so that you only have to open one bottle and the other one can stay fresh until it's used. Just to let you know ahead of time, I have heard that Prime can have a strong smell, kind of sulfur smelling. It's because it's highly concentrated, though, so the smell is normal and you can't smell anything once you add it to the water. Just that good ol' "aquarium" smell.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> I'm not sure about the shipping prices. I'd say maybe get 2 smaller bottles so that you only have to open one bottle and the other one can stay fresh until it's used. Just to let you know ahead of time, I have heard that Prime can have a strong smell, kind of sulfur smelling. It's because it's highly concentrated, though, so the smell is normal and you can't smell anything once you add it to the water. Just that good ol' "aquarium" smell.


thank you sakura. i found some prime nearby but the price is questionable, $17 CAD w/o tax for 8.5 oz and $31 for 2x quantity container. i didn't get it until i know if its a decent price compared to petco. petco for 1x 3.4oz with shipping would probably be $11 ($6 shipping) and $13 W shipping for a 8.5oz. it'll probably be $20 to buy locally. 

in the mean time i bought gold fish bowl conditioner for the ammonia aspect of WC. does the ammonia treatment do anything to prolong water changes in tanks smaller than 3gal?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I can't speak from personal experience, unfortunately. In theory, it sounds like it should but I really don't know. Does it say it detoxifies ammonia or locks it up? There are products like API Ammo-Lock but I don't know how well or even if they work. 

Say, has anyone ever read any studies on how much ammonia a single betta produces in 24 hours? Just curious to know.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

it says it neutralizes the ammonia.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

DukeTheFish said:


> *The cup he was in was nasty *


IMO this may be the problem. Some if not most bettas can endure poor conditions as long as its stable. But once you remove him to a "Perfect" condition, he will have problems from the difference in water prams (some may even die). This is why acclimating is advised.

Just keep everything stable (heat, Ph, etc). As long as he is willing to eat, he will be fine...... A bigger tank would be much better for both you and him.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

the item i got was goldfishbowl conditioner. it removes chlorine, chloramine,ammonia and detoxifies heavy metals. does it do anything different from betta water conditioner?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sakura8 said:


> Say, has anyone ever read any studies on how much ammonia a single betta produces in 24 hours? Just curious to know.


In an experiment I conducted (non-scientific) I found that ammonia started to show up in a 1gal unfiltered container, bare bottom, no live plants with one adult Betta-fed 2 times a day with a quality flake food with zero left over...ammonia 0.25ppm at about the 72h mark and even less in 4gal....


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> In an experiment I conducted (non-scientific) I found that ammonia started to show up in a 1gal unfiltered container, bare bottom, no live plants with one adult Betta-fed 2 times a day with a quality flake food with zero left over...ammonia 0.25ppm at about the 72h mark and even less in 4gal....


ty, so its 4 days unitl ammonia appears. what are dangerous ammonia levels for a betta?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It is best to keep the ammonia and nitrite 0.25ppm and less...ideally 0ppm is what you want....the first water change on a newly setup tank should be on day 3 to avoid/prevent any ammonia related issues......if the fish is overfed or leftover food is not removed...ammonia levels increase faster and higher...prevention is the best method to a healthy fish...


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> It is best to keep the ammonia and nitrite 0.25ppm and less...ideally 0ppm is what you want....the first water change on a newly setup tank should be on day 3 to avoid/prevent any ammonia related issues......if the fish is overfed or leftover food is not removed...ammonia levels increase faster and higher...prevention is the best method to a healthy fish...


whhich ammonia test kit is a good price and accurate?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

API is what I use....


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> API is what I use....


thank you, i'll have to look around for it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> In an experiment I conducted (non-scientific) I found that ammonia started to show up in a 1gal unfiltered container, bare bottom, no live plants with one adult Betta-fed 2 times a day with a quality flake food with zero left over...ammonia 0.25ppm at about the 72h mark and even less in 4gal....


Wow, interesting. It's less ammonia than I expected and yet at the same time, still a surprising amount produced by one little fish. It really illustrates how fast the stuff builds up, though, so let it be an incentive to keep up with those water changes. ;-) OFL, you really are the great fish guru.


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