# Trying to improve Bettas conditions



## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

So I have a betta, and he's not doing great. I realized this weekend that what I was doing for him (or rather what I wasn't..) wasn't cutting it. I had him in a kick starter "self cleaning", maybe 1 gallon tank. I know, I know. I'm horrible. 

Thing is, I've never had a fish before and when my Dad wanted to get my kids a betta with this awesome new tank, I thought it was great! The whole tiny cup to 1 gallon tank thing. I now know better.

I've been researching and researching and my brain is so full of fish stuff and I still don't know where to begin!

I bought a 10 gallon tank for my poor betta, who is improving with aquarium salt and clean water, but is still in a tank that is too small. 

Where do I go from here? I'm trying to order all the stuff I need from Amazon, but still don't know all of what I need. 

Here's what I'd like to do:

I'd like some live plants (not sure which, but I figured I could talk to my pet store guys when I get to that point), so I have a fluorescent hood on my list & I'm not sure what kind/strength/watts of fluorescent bulb to get for my 10 gallon tank. Advice?

Next, what substrate do I use if I want plants in his tank? There's a mix at petco with ferts in it but I read an article that suggested organic potting soil instead (is this still true for a live plant tank WITH a betta?)

I'm planning on getting a sponge filter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005L...1_5?colid=13OC7GOPNSA70&coliid=I2EJSH1MMU09FT) and a tetra whisper air pump (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0009...olid=13OC7GOPNSA70&coliid=I1A10R3BEDZXWF&vs=1). Is this all I need for my 10 gallon tank, filter wise? Also, I know I'm wanting the beneficial bacteria (I think) to colonize (?) in the filter, so do I ever clean it? 

I'm ordering the freshwater API master test kit as well as Dr Tims ammonium chloride for doing the nitrogen cycle fish less. 

Going to get a hiding spot for my fish in the tank & a thermometer (what's your favorite thermometer & your bettas favorite hiding spots or decor?)

Do I need a heater? I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and our temp in the house doesn't go below 70. Is 70 degrees too cold?

What else am I missing? Suggestions? 

Thank you I'm advance for your help.


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

I can't answer all of your questions, because I'm a pretty new betta owner, too, but I can answer some.

I don't know about sponge filters, so I'm not sure if what you're looking at is appropriate for a 10 gallon. For cleaning, though, I believe you just want to squish/swish the sponge around in old tank water every few weeks. (Hopefully someone can confirm or correct that for us.)

I think the best thermometer is the simple $2-3 thermometer that attaches to the inside of the tank with a suction cup. The self-adhesive strips that go on the outside do not give an accurate reading of the temperature of the water.

Our fish has a plastic canvas tube that he enjoys and a cholla "root" that I put together with large anubias plants attached. He also has a terra cotta pot, but instead of hiding inside, he likes to hide behind it, under the leaves of the silk plant I stuck through the hole to plug it. 

Yes, 70 degrees is too cold for a betta. Even if the temperature doesn't dip below a safe range, the heater is important to keep the temperature *steady*. I found an adjustable heater on clearance at Petco, and it's kept our 10 gallon perfectly steady. (It's adjustable, but it doesn't have a thermostat - just + or -).


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## Straubrey (Aug 5, 2014)

I have recently set up a planted, cycled 10 gallon for my betta, so I know what you are dealing with!

I did a fishless cycle using household ammonia (Ace Hardware carries it). It took 5-6 weeks to completely cycle. Good call on getting a master test kit, that's very important!

What I did instead of a hood was get a glass top. I then have a light fixture setting on top of that. I already had the light fixture from another tank. What lighting you will need depends on what type of plants you want to get. I went with low/moderate light, easy plants. I'm sure there are people who can better advise on lighting, I'm no expert. I think mine is 15 watts, so 1.5 watts per gallon. My plants are doing very well.

I went with eco-complete for substrata, I like the look, and it has been working out very well so far.

I use a sponge filter and tetra whisper air pump. The other thing you will need is a check valve. It stops water from back flowing down the airline tubing should the power go out. Oh and you need some airline tubing too! Once the tank is cycled, you do clean the sponge filter, you just squeeze it out in the used tank water when you do your weekly water change.

I have driftwood in my tank, I thought my betta would hide under it, but he prefers to sleep in the plants. Anubias seems to be a favorite, and it's also very easy to grow!

For a thermometer, I have a digital one that sticks onto the outside of the tank, with an in tank sensor. It is easier for me to read, and no worries about it breaking in the tank. I got it from amazon for around $4.

I would get a heater, you want the temp to stay stable, and 70 is a bit too low.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me, as I just went through all this a month ago!


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

Straubrey said:


> What I did instead of a hood was get a glass top. I then have a light fixture setting on top of that.


That's what I have going on, too. The kit I bought came with a hood with two lights, but when I turned it on the first time I had to shut it off 15 minutes later because of the burnt plastic smell! I picked up a hinged glass top, replaced the two 15-watt incandescent bulbs with 13-watt 6500K CFLs, and just set the hood on top of the glass for lighting. The smell is not as strong anymore, but it's still detectable when we turn the light off after running for 7-8 hours.


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## fidget (Aug 18, 2013)

Get a gravel vacuum and a bucket for water changes.  
I have eco complete in 4 tanks and soil/sand in 2 tanks. Personally, I like both substrates. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with eco complete, however, I'm keeping really easy plants in my tanks. Anubias, java fern, crypt wendtii, brazillian pennywort, whatever comes in the assorted bulbs pack from Petco lol, and a few others. 
Lighting is going to depend on what kind of plants you choose. Check online for lighting recommendations. Use a daylight spectrum bulb and check the wattage recommendation per gallon for the plants you want to get.
I'd suggest buying plants on ebay or here in the classifieds. I bought some beautiful plants from peachii here. Here in the classifieds you can get a package of some really nice plants at a decent price.
Tetra safe start is a really good cheap bottled bacteria. It sped up my initial cycling time to 3 weeks. 
You may want to consider getting a flow control valve for the airline tubing- otherwise you can just tie it in a knot to control the flow...a cheaper solution, but I like my little valves.
The water should be 78-82. 50 watt heater is recommended, but some people say to use a lower wattage than that because if the thermometer's internal thermostat breaks and the thermometer doesn't shut off, it can overheat your tank. I don't worry about it too much because my husband or I are home pretty much all the time and we have digital thermometers that are easy to read.
Hope this helps.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Thank you both for your responses! I'm sure it won't seem as hectic and complicated once I have everything & start the process. 

I will for sure PM you with any more questions that I'm sure I'll have, Straubrey! Thank you!


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

fortheloveofrudy said:


> So I have a betta, and he's not doing great. I realized this weekend that what I was doing for him (or rather what I wasn't..) wasn't cutting it. I had him in a kick starter "self cleaning", maybe 1 gallon tank. I know, I know. I'm horrible.


One gallon tanks aren't horrible, they are the minimum size I recommend as a temporary home for a betta. They aren't good forever homes, but are fine for short to medium term (a few months max). 



> Thing is, I've never had a fish before and when my Dad wanted to get my kids a betta with this awesome new tank, I thought it was great! The whole tiny cup to 1 gallon tank thing. I now know better.
> 
> I've been researching and researching and my brain is so full of fish stuff and I still don't know where to begin!
> 
> ...


Get 6500K color temperature (daylight) bulbs, at least 20 watts total in your tank. You can get these that will fit in an incandescent hood, and you can get the bulbs from walmart. Find compact flash bulbs that say "suitable for damp locations" and "daylight". They will probably say "40 watt equivalent" or higher. 

Or get your flourscent hood and tubes, both work just fine. and the tubes are slightly better, but not needed. 



> Next, what substrate do I use if I want plants in his tank? There's a mix at petco with ferts in it but I read an article that suggested organic potting soil instead (is this still true for a live plant tank WITH a betta?)


I do not recommend potting soil for someone new. It works great, you might want to try it on your second or third tank, but for now keep it simple. My favorite substrate is Black Diamond Blasting Grit which you can pick up at Tractor Supply stores. It comes in a huge bag, enough for two tanks, for about $10. You have to rinse the devil out of it but it is quite attractive and provides purchase for roots of plants. It is not nutrient rich, so you have to select plants that get their nutrients from the water, but most beginner aquarium plants do that anyway. If there is a plant you want that is a root-feeder, you can get "root tabs" which are like fertilizer pellets and you will be fine. 

Other sands work fine too, especially if you want a lighter color. "Pool filter sand" is really good, or you can even use "play sand". 



> I'm planning on getting a sponge filter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005L...1_5?colid=13OC7GOPNSA70&coliid=I2EJSH1MMU09FT) and a tetra whisper air pump (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0009...olid=13OC7GOPNSA70&coliid=I1A10R3BEDZXWF&vs=1). Is this all I need for my 10 gallon tank, filter wise? Also, I know I'm wanting the beneficial bacteria (I think) to colonize (?) in the filter, so do I ever clean it?


If your tank is planted that should be a sufficient filter. I would consider having a box filter (link) as an alternative. Fill it with lava rocks or small ceramic biological filter rings. It will provide enough filtration with either of those semi-permanent types of filter media, and if you ever need to add more mechanical or chemical filtration you easily can. Your sponge filter is much easier though, provides better bio filtration and has the mechanical filtration built in though so you are good either way. 

Be sure to get a check valve at least. This will keep water from siphoning into your air pump in the event of a power failure. I really recommend you get a splitter valve with one more opening than you will have air-powered things hooked up to it, so that you can reduce the air flow to your filters. You don't want to overly excite the water surface with excess bubbles. Personally I'd get a three way valve, so that you could add another air-powered something in the future and still have an opening to vent excess if you need to. 



> I'm ordering the freshwater API master test kit as well as Dr Tims ammonium chloride for doing the nitrogen cycle fish less.


That is about exactly what I am doing, but it is honestly overkill. If you have your plants in before your betta you can do a fish-in cycle and you will be absolutely fine. One betta in a 10 gallon won't produce so much waste that he will be harmed by being in there while you cycle. You can probably get away with doing only weekly water changes even while cycling. (But use that master test kit daily to be sure!)


> Going to get a hiding spot for my fish in the tank & a thermometer (what's your favorite thermometer & your bettas favorite hiding spots or decor?)


I like getting a cheap glass thermometer with the suction cup, and two of the stickers. I put a sticker on each side, towards the back, and the suction cup in the front. So far as hiding places, get your plants, and put a clean and well rinsed (no soap residue) coffee mug into the tank for a cave.



> Do I need a heater? I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and our temp in the house doesn't go below 70. Is 70 degrees too cold?
> 
> What else am I missing? Suggestions?
> 
> Thank you I'm advance for your help.


Yep 70 is too cold. Get a 50 watt or greater heater. Don't skimp here, you can cut corners on just about anything else, but pay for a good well-reviewed heater. Set your heater to 80 degrees, or a little higher if your house sometimes gets above 80 (you want to minimize changes in temperature, better to always be 82 than to go from 78 to 82 daily.)

Don't over stress it, you are doing great. So far as plants, I am having amazingly good results with ludwigia repens, if you get just one plant that is what I would go with, but I wouldn't get just one plant. Get at least three types of plants, get them into the tank a few days before you transfer the betta. Transfer the betta once you see signs of plants growing. If you can't find any in your area, PM me and I'll send you some cuttings of the ludwigia repens. I don't have at the moment, but also strongly recommend java moss. Also, get a couple of merimo moss balls. If you manage to kill all your other plants, the merimo will probably survive.


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## fidget (Aug 18, 2013)

I was gonna say the same thing about fish in cycling, but I know some people here frown upon it. I've done it twice using tetra safe start and dosing the tank with Prime every couple of days until the cycle was complete (3 weeks in my case, but it's different for everyone). There wasn't any change in my fish's behavior or appearance.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

If you didn't already have a betta I might not recommend the fish-in cycle, but he'll be a lot happier in a not yet cycled 10 gallon than in a one gallon. 

If you really want to do it "right" you can put him in the 10 gallon while you put your filter in the one gallon (DO NOT get rid of existing water) and cycle the filter fishlessly in the one gallon then add it into the 10. This is a modification of the "bucket cycle" that takes advantage of any existing beneficial bacteria that have already grown in your one gallon. Does the one gallon have any kind of built-in filter? Gravel filter even?


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Also, there are two ways to do a fish-in cycle. One you wait for the ammonia to get high before changing the water, the other you change the water frequently to keep the fish happier. I don't like the former, but the latter is just fine (although it takes a long time).


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

For heaters, I like the Eheim Jager thermometer. Make no mistake, it's big, but for a 10G, with a little over 2 inches of substrate, the 50w (current price of $17.06 is good for it) will fit perfectly in the vertical position. As for the thermometer, I'd get a regular glass thermometer from Walmart. I also got a General Tools AQ 150, it's a little overkill for a thermometer, but what is not mentioned on the description is that it has an alarm, you can set a max and min temperature and whenever the temperature of the probe falls outside that range, this things goes off like your alarm clock.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Thank you all so much! I made an Amazon order and plan to get more stuff from my local pet store & we have a pet store that is family owned & they have a HUGE tank that I'm sure is for people trying to start a new tank & get it cycled (I used to go in and think "'What IS this here for?..." that has lots of decor, gravel, etc which I'm sure has beneficial bacteria & live plants in it. (I'll pay closer attention next time I go in, now that I know what it's most likely for!) so I'll be going there to get my live plants. I feel a little more prepared with all of your advice. I plan on doing the cycle fishless, just because I have NO idea what I'm doing still and I don't want to end up causing more harm to my little fish. And he's still on the mend from his ill conditions (I think I've had him for about a year. I'm surprised he's still alive after all he's been through.  ) I'm hoping he will get better and better each day, and I've already seen a change in him since I've given him clean water & 100% changes every day with new aquarium salts & conditioner.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

What's he sick with, depending on what's going on with him, you probably don't even need the aquarium salt.


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## hgual22 (Jul 18, 2014)

I use terra cotta pots for hiding places. I have a bigger sized one for my fish, and a couple mini ones for my shrimp, in the same tank. I also have a ceramic log in my 5gal. Bushy plants are great hiding places too. 

Definitely get a heater. I have 2 theo hydors from Drfosterandsmith.com They are inexpensive and reliable. Mine keep my water at exactly 80*. 

As for plants, try anubis, Fava fern, Java moss (My betta love this moss. I stuff some in my terra cotta pots, as well as put some between to bigger rocks. They love laying in it and under it.) You can also try some kind of swords, but you will need root tabs, which are easy. 

Definitely get a gravel vacuum and bucket. I got my gravel vac at walmart for $9 and the bucket at the dollar store. I do changes every week and just clean the gravel a bit and then use the vac to suck out a percentage of the water. Then I clean the filter cartridge in the dirty water and dump the water, and refl with clean, conditioned water. for my 3 tanks (3gal, 5.5gal and 10gal) it takes 10-15 minutes total.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Veloran said:


> What's he sick with, depending on what's going on with him, you probably don't even need the aquarium salt.


I first started giving him salt because he was exhibiting respiratory issues (gasping for air), and I want to say that has improved, though I still see him doing it some.. And now I'm pretty sure he has swim bladder disorder & constipation. I have been monitoring him more closely and can't say I have seen him have a bowel movement in the last 2 days, minimum, though i need to take all the clear gems out so I can really see. He has a hard time staying down & wedges himself under a fake plant to do so, and when he comes to the top, if he isn't pushed against a side, he will be laying on his side. I'm wondering if I should buy an antibiotic in case it's something internal, like a bacterial infection? I was actually gonna post this stuff on another part of the forum today, but since you asked.. 

I feel bad for him because it looks frustrating not being able to swim properly, and of course I'm the reason why. :-(


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

hgual22 said:


> I use terra cotta pots for hiding places. I have a bigger sized one for my fish, and a couple mini ones for my shrimp, in the same tank. I also have a ceramic log in my 5gal. Bushy plants are great hiding places too.
> 
> Definitely get a heater. I have 2 theo hydors from Drfosterandsmith.com They are inexpensive and reliable. Mine keep my water at exactly 80*.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I hadn't thought to get a bucket.. Silly me! I did order a gravel vacuum, though! 

Thank you for your advice.


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## RedneckPoodle (Mar 4, 2014)

I have two different thermometers in my tank, however my steady go-to is a simple kitchen turkey thermometer (one with a digital read-out). The ones you stick in the tank are awesome for a quick glace to see what the temp is, but I like the accuracy of the kitchen one, also it's great for when you're doing water changes to make sure the water you're putting in is the same as what's in the tank. I've heard horrible things about the digital ones made specifically for aquariums though.


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## fidget (Aug 18, 2013)

Aquarium salt can make them retain fluids- epsom salt can help them if they're constipated or retaining fluids. I'd take the Aq salt out and not feed him for a couple of days to see if he's just constipated.

I love these things!

I've had mine for over a year and haven't had to change a battery.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

RedneckPoodle said:


> I have two different thermometers in my tank, however my steady go-to is a simple kitchen turkey thermometer (one with a digital read-out). The ones you stick in the tank are awesome for a quick glace to see what the temp is, but I like the accuracy of the kitchen one, also it's great for when you're doing water changes to make sure the water you're putting in is the same as what's in the tank. I've heard horrible things about the digital ones made specifically for aquariums though.


I'm just going to go with the basic aquarium thermometer for now! But that is a good idea about the turkey thermometer & making sure the water is the same temp.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

fidget said:


> Aquarium salt can make them retain fluids- epsom salt can help them if they're constipated or retaining fluids. I'd take the Aq salt out and not feed him for a couple of days to see if he's just constipated.
> 
> I love these things!
> 
> I've had mine for over a year and haven't had to change a battery.


I may have to upgrade to this thermometer later on! Very nice.

I won't put any more aquarium salt in his water change tomorrow. Thank you!


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

There is absolutely no reason not to add aquarium salt for your fish, especially since he has a swim bladder issue and shows signs of being ill. He will be perfectly fine and so will the plants as long as the aq salt is at the correct and recommended dose. Salt is very helpful with most freshwater fish. The excepting is loaches, and scaleless fish like corys. Salt is very good for treating disease, and preventing them. Bettas like a little salt in their tank, not a whole lot. The general rule is, 1 table spoon per 5 (us) gallons. The electrolytes in salt are beneficial and help gill function. Tap water is devoid of salt, using at this dose actually brings up the salinity level to a more natural level found in the ground water of their native land. Just my 2 cents.


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## fidget (Aug 18, 2013)

For swim bladder/possible constipation issues? I've never heard anyone recommend using Aq salt for those issues. 

Also, I believe the use of Aq salt is controversial. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just pointing that out. Some people swear by it, others think it's unnecessary.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

This is not betta but the theory is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fQNOdPnnl0

http://www.justanswer.com/pet/6ntia-tried-help-gold-fish-swim-bladder-disorder-the.html

My answer was more in regards to the breathing problem but sodium chloride certainly wont hurt the constipation problem. You can also add a little Epson salt at the same time. Yes I know there is some controversy re aquarium salt on some forums but its use at correct dosage is widely accepted by the IBC show breeder level, almost every Thai breeder and most quality fish stores.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

AQ salt is widely used by fish stores as a preventative measure, when used correctly at the right dosage it is no problem, but as LG said some fish do not tolerate it well at all. Betta do fine as long as it's low level, here is the thing with fish keeping you have to be able to identify a fish's illness pretty quickly and know how to treat it effectively, I have been keeping fish for many years on and off. It is not always easy to ID the sickness and giving the wrong treatment for the sickness can cause more harm than good sometime, in the end it comes down to your personal experience, sure you can get help online but get a few opinions or make sure the person that is giving you advise knows something. I can usually figure out what's wrong with a fish pretty quickly and start treatment rapidly but to do this you need to have meds on hand or know where to get them locally, waiting 3-4 days to get to you usually will not help. So basically what I am saying is in time you will gain experience which will help a lot, but you will not win every battle but you will greatly increase the odds that you will win.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Thank you both for your advice. I have been giving my fish the asked for amount of Aquarium Salt in his tank for several days now, so I think I will just add a touch this time instead since I don't want to do the 1 tsp/ 5 gallons for an extended time, and he DOES seem to be breathing better as far as I can tell. I wish I had paid more attention to him & figured this out earlier & really hope he pulls through so he can see how good his life can be! He still seems to be having swim bladder issues, so I will try the Epsom salt now. Anything else I should try? I haven't seen a bowel movement still. :/ I tried holding a mirror up but he acts like he can't see it! I even stuck it in the tank in case the tank was somehow blocking the view of the mirror. No reaction. Maybe my mirror sucks. Haha!


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Stone said:


> AQ salt is widely used by fish stores as a preventative measure, when used correctly at the right dosage it is no problem, but as LG said some fish do not tolerate it well at all. Betta do fine as long as it's low level, here is the thing with fish keeping you have to be able to identify a fish's illness pretty quickly and know how to treat it effectively, I have been keeping fish for many years on and off. It is not always easy to ID the sickness and giving the wrong treatment for the sickness can cause more harm than good sometime, in the end it comes down to your personal experience, sure you can get help online but get a few opinions or make sure the person that is giving you advise knows something. I can usually figure out what's wrong with a fish pretty quickly and start treatment rapidly but to do this you need to have meds on hand or know where to get them locally, waiting 3-4 days to get to you usually will not help. So basically what I am saying is in time you will gain experience which will help a lot, but you will not win every battle but you will greatly increase the odds that you will win.



Yes, now I know! I will pay closer attention to my fish from now on. 

I'm praying that the odds are in my favor (ha), and that my little fish makes a complete recovery. We shall see.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Just wanted to give an update on my Betta-- I got his tank set up (except I haven't gotten my test kit in the mail yet, should be here this week), no live plants yet. The guy from the family owned pet store was helpful but not well informed, IMHO. He said to wait to do the plants because they'll make the cycle take longer, so I listened, but now I'm like, but how will I put something UNDER my gravel for the plants to take root in? And I mentioned a check valve and he looked at me like I've been reading too many forums. I didn't get one that day but later went back for one after reading that if I don't get one, water could back up into my air pump! Yep.. Need that! Luckily the air pump came with a control valve & is finally set up into my sponge filter and seems to be working nicely. 

Heater seems stable at 80 degrees. Is this good? 

I bought an antibiotic water additive because I really felt like his swim bladder disorder was being caused by an internal bacterial infection, from my lack of care & knowledge. After a few days of it, and putting him in the 10 gallon, I haven't seen him being pulled up by his rear to the surface & seems to be able to swim where he wants instead of being pulled one way or another. 

Only problem now is that I can't seem to get his attention for feeding time! He has still been wedging himself into his hiding spaces, and I've tried to get him to surface & drop pellets in front of him, but no interest?


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## paperlilies (Aug 31, 2014)

I have been very happy with the EHEIM Jager Aquarium Thermostat Heater. It comes in different watts, good reviews on Amazon, you can set desired temperature, it will self regulate, and accurate. With any heater it's good to monitor it frequently the first 24 hours and a couple times a day thereafter to make sure it is working properly. Any heater can malfunction or not be calibrated correctly, even the best ones. If the temperature you choose is 78 degrees and the actual temp of the water is not close to that I would exchange it. Also, an accurate thermometer is important. Like a previous post said the suction cup ones with glass thermometers are accurate, but be careful as they can break.

For live plants, Anubias are great for beginners. More hardy and requires little care - 6hours of light/day. Any more and algae will grow.

Hope this helps. I am not an expert, but have learned this by researching online and experience. My favorite sites for betta care are www.bettasplendid.weebly.com and http://www.firsttankguide.net/setup.php


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

fortheloveofrudy said:


> Just wanted to give an update on my Betta-- I got his tank set up (except I haven't gotten my test kit in the mail yet, should be here this week), no live plants yet. The guy from the family owned pet store was helpful but not well informed, IMHO. He said to wait to do the plants because they'll make the cycle take longer, so I listened, but now I'm like, but how will I put something UNDER my gravel for the plants to take root in? And I mentioned a check valve and he looked at me like I've been reading too many forums. I didn't get one that day but later went back for one after reading that if I don't get one, water could back up into my air pump! Yep.. Need that! Luckily the air pump came with a control valve & is finally set up into my sponge filter and seems to be working nicely.
> 
> Heater seems stable at 80 degrees. Is this good?
> 
> ...


Plants do make the cycle take longer, but they also help it go smoother. For a fish-in cycle the additional time for a cycle is more than mitigated by the smoother water conditions in the meantime. 

I do not recommend the antibiotics until everything else fails. Raise the temperature to 84-86 (while the fish is ill) and add a small amount of aquarium salt. (I'm still not convinced the salt helps, but it might and I don't think it will do any harm.) If there is still a problem, and you are sure it is bacterial, THEN you can add the antibiotic. 

Cycling a tank is a process where you are trying to gain a population of beneficial bacteria, and adding antibiotics can greatly interfere with this process. 

How long has it been since he has eaten? If it is just a day or two just be careful that you don't overfeed until he starts eating. Put in one or two pellets, if he eats add more, if he doesn't eat stop trying.

Can you bring a sample of your aquarium water to a lfs or pet store to get tested?


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

for the substrate id suggest organic soil with a sand cap, and if you get a heavy root feeder you'll need root tabs, but its much cheaper then special aquarium plant soil stuff. Its what I do for my substrate, I have 2 natural planted tanks and 1 with a few plants in pots, it works Nicely. For plants I have aponogeton(spelling?) anubis, water lettuce, rotala, duck weed, water wisteria and water sprite. I dose with Seachem flourish brand fertalizer about 2x a week. I just swapped out a incadesent blulb that came with my hood for a compact flourecent bulb, on my other Tanks without a hood I have a flourecent light strip from wlamart. I would also suggest Java ferns and Java moss for easy plants, goodluck!! 

I notice u said u already put the gravle down, well there are several plants that can be tied to a decoration, or float, for floaters you have water lettuce, frogbit and duck weed and water wisteria can be left floating too, for plants to tie down you can use water wisteria, water sprite, anubis and Java moss c:


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

bluenail said:


> Plants do make the cycle take longer, but they also help it go smoother. For a fish-in cycle the additional time for a cycle is more than mitigated by the smoother water conditions in the meantime.
> 
> I do not recommend the antibiotics until everything else fails. Raise the temperature to 84-86 (while the fish is ill) and add a small amount of aquarium salt. (I'm still not convinced the salt helps, but it might and I don't think it will do any harm.) If there is still a problem, and you are sure it is bacterial, THEN you can add the antibiotic.
> 
> ...



Right, that makes sense (bacteria & antibiotics)-- I did use aquarium salt for about a week & I think his breathing improved from that-- but his swim bladder disorder was not improving. So after about 2 weeks of seeing if it would correct itself from that clean water & aquarium salts & seeing no improvement, I began with the antibiotics. I'm done giving them now and I think his swim bladder has been corrected! Though he still stays mostly hidden & tucked into things, and now I'm having a hard time feeding him. I don't know if it's because he's adjusting to the new tank still or because he can't sense the food the way he used to (there was NO water movement in his old tank & now there is from the air pump/filter), and I have been in there maybe 3 or 4 times dropping pellets right in front of him with no success. Not one pellet has gotten eaten, that I'm aware, in the past 2 days. :-(

EDIT: I think my test kit should be here tomorrow, so I will for sure test the water then. I did increase the temperature in his tank.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

kjg1029 said:


> for the substrate id suggest organic soil with a sand cap, and if you get a heavy root feeder you'll need root tabs, but its much cheaper then special aquarium plant soil stuff. Its what I do for my substrate, I have 2 natural planted tanks and 1 with a few plants in pots, it works Nicely. For plants I have aponogeton(spelling?) anubis, water lettuce, rotala, duck weed, water wisteria and water sprite. I dose with Seachem flourish brand fertalizer about 2x a week. I just swapped out a incadesent blulb that came with my hood for a compact flourecent bulb, on my other Tanks without a hood I have a flourecent light strip from wlamart. I would also suggest Java ferns and Java moss for easy plants, goodluck!!
> 
> I notice u said u already put the gravle down, well there are several plants that can be tied to a decoration, or float, for floaters you have water lettuce, frogbit and duck weed and water wisteria can be left floating too, for plants to tie down you can use water wisteria, water sprite, anubis and Java moss c:


Thank you so much! I will look into these soon!


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Have you done some fairly major water changes and/or ran carbon in your filter since you have done the medication? I recommend dong both if you can.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

bluenail said:


> Have you done some fairly major water changes and/or ran carbon in your filter since you have done the medication? I recommend dong both if you can.


I had no idea about the carbon. I just looked it up, but I'm not sure how to do this with a sponge filter? 

I will do a large water change now.

Thank you so much for the help.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

You really can't do it with most sponge filters (which is the ONLY thing I don't like about them.) A few brands of sponge filters will accept little things with carbon that fit onto the air lift tube, but not many. 

Water changes work too, so long as you remember your conditioner, and make sure that the water is as close to the temperature of the tank as you can. Avoid excess temperature changes if you can.


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

bluenail said:


> You really can't do it with most sponge filters (which is the ONLY thing I don't like about them.) A few brands of sponge filters will accept little things with carbon that fit onto the air lift tube, but not many.
> 
> Water changes work too, so long as you remember your conditioner, and make sure that the water is as close to the temperature of the tank as you can. Avoid excess temperature changes if you can.



Darn! Next time I will be sure to isolate him if I need to medicate him again, instead of doing the whole tank. Oh well.. Now I know! 

Still haven't been able to get him to eat (day 3). He ate this food fine before switching him to the big tank, so I'm not sure if he's still adjusting or is saying he doesn't like the food or what? He has to be able to see it.. I'm dropping it in front of his face. :/


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## fortheloveofrudy (Sep 1, 2014)

Okay, so I finally got my test kit today & immediately tested the water. 

Ammonia= 0.25ppm

Nitrites= between 0 & 0.25ppm

Nitrates= between 0 & 5.0ppm

I'm thinking about taking my fish out in some of his tank water while I cycle his tank. I'm worried about hurting him since I've never cycled a tank before, and I'd like to get his tank cycled quicker using ammonia. And since I haven't seen him eating in a while, this might help him eat since he's used to eating from the smaller tank.. 

And I can leave the bottom empty so I can monitor his waste.


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