# Bloated - not sure what's wrong with my fish. Please help!



## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I had another thread about my boy. He was in a divided tank with two other fish (who do not seem to be ill - they look and act normally). He became bloated, so I fasted him for three days, then I fed him a little frozen daphnia, hoping that it would clear him out if he was constipated. That didn't seem to help, so I decided to move him to a 5 gallon filtered tank that I had lying around. 

I acclimated him first then slowly added epsom salt to the tank (1 tsp per gallon - pre-dissolved). This morning I looked at him and he was still just as bloated, but it looked like there was some white, sort of stringy looking poop hanging from him. I didn't see any poop on the bottom of the tank (I purposely left the bottom clear so I could see any movements he had).

He seems to be moving around fine, his fins aren't clamped and he will still flare up if you put a mirror in front of him, but he's a bit less active than he was. He will still beg for food, though I haven't fed him anything since the daphnia. His scales don't really looked raised - just strained because of the bloating.

What should I do for treatment? Up the epsom salt dosage? Treat for internal parasites? I don't want to lose the little guy - I'm so worried about him.

Also, should I do anything with the other tank (which is a 10g filtered)? As I said, the fish in it seem fine, but if he does have internal parasites, it could have spread before I moved him. Is there any 'preventative' treatment I could do on that tank that wouldn't hurt my other two boys or should I just leave it alone until/if they begin showing symptoms of illness?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

White stringy poop?? Remove any live plants, snails, shrimp and treat the whole tank for internal parasites. These will be contagious in a divided tank. I am honestly not sure what the best parasite treatment is other than increasing temp to 85F. Epsom salt you can increase to 10tsp (that's 1tsp per gallon) and remove the BB part of your filter if it is cycled.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

There aren't any live plants or tankmates with sick fish in the 5g. I didn't see any of the stringy poop until after I moved him to the smaller tank, so I'm hoping I got him moved before it spread. Does anyone know the best treatment for parasites? I've read some other threads, but it seems that the information is different in each one.

I didn't want to treat the 10g tank with the other two fish as I didn't want to stress them needlessly. I've been watching them closely to make sure that they aren't showing any signs of sickness.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=73333

It seems in my general search Jungle's anti-parasitic tab things work. Coupled with epsom salt baths. I would treat the larger tank with epsom salt first, if you notice them showing any signs then treat it with Jungles.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I'll continue the epsom salt and look for some of the anti-parasitic. I just feel really bad because it doesn't seem like anything I'm doing is helping him.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Oh, and my fiance was finally able to get a couple of pictures. They aren't great, but they give an idea. 

(BTW, the Wardley food in the background is what he feeds his violet gobies - my boys eat Omega One)


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm.. I would PM Sakura8 on this one. There is a member here Djembekah who has a girl looking like this for months, Sak thinks its a tumor..


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I'll definitely send a PM. I want to help the little guy, but I don't want to treat and stress him for something that he doesn't have or treat for the wrong thing and hurt him more. Now I know what parents feel like!

Thank you very much for responding and trying to help - I really appreciate it.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

No problem! Good luck!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Constipation can cause the white poop. It might clear up once he's finished moving everything.. or he could have an infection.

I would wait and continue to fast on the epsom salts another few days. If he's not better by week's end you could try a little pea.. we'll cross that if needed.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks Callistra. I upped the amount of epsom salt (3tsp/gallon), so hopefully that will help. He was still bloated this morning, but moving around. I haven't seen anymore poop, white or otherwise, though the area around where it was coming out yesterday looks white - like it's stuck in there. Poor little guy.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Melodica and sorry for the late reply; I was away from my computer all day yesterday.

From the pictures, it does indeed look like he could have a tumor.  In this case, not much can be done except to make him comfortable and let nature take his course. The bulge he has is typical of a fatty tumor because of its location, its size, and from the fact that he is still eating and hasn't pineconed.

However, because he also had some white poo it's possible that the bulge is caused by a buildup of internal parasites or as Callistra said, possible constipation. You can continue treatment with the increased dosage of epsom salts for a few days or even a week and if there is no improvement or if you see more white poo, you might try treating him with the parasite medication API General Cure. 

If the bulge hasn't changed after treatment, it most likely is a tumor. Bettas have been known to live comfortably with tumors of that size for months and as long as he can swim, reach the surface, and eat, he can go on for a while yet.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks so much for the reply, Sakura. 

My fiance (who I've charged with checking on him since he works from home) said he saw something white and curly coming from him. I assumed that was more of the poop. His stomach doesn't seem to be going down though.

I will definitely keep treating with the salt. Quick question about that - the filter won't draw the salt from the tank, will it? I read somewhere that it wouldn't, but I think that was reference AQ salt, not epsom. If that hasn't helped in a few days, I will get some of the API General Cure and try that. 

I've got my fingers crossed that it's not a tumor or anything life threatening, but if it is, I'll do my best to make him comfortable and happy. It's amazing how attached we get to these little guys.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The filter won't suck out the salt but if you use any medication, you'll need to remove any carbon from the filter.

Hopefully, the appearance of more white poo means he just has parasites or is constipated and we can get him fixed up.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Bad news 

I got home and he was floating at the top of the tank. Usually he's very responsive when he sees me, but even waving my fingers in front of him got very little reaction. He didn't really even respond to food, which is highly unusual.

I noticed when he was swimming that his right fin isn't flapping at all. It's kinda stuck into his body. Now he's lying on the bottom of the tank, tilted slightly to one side. His eyes are responsive - if I move, he watches me and he doesn't seem to be breathing heavily. 

I'm going to get some of the API General Cure and try it, but given the rapid decline in his behavior, I'm doubtful that it will help. I just hate to see him suffering.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can start with general cure in the water if this is all you can find, but I'm not so sure this is parasite in nature.. and if it is, feeding meds is much more effective because really treatment needs to be 3-4 weeks and I'm not sure GC is not safe to use for that long.

His symptoms can also be bacterial in nature.

Bettas who get internal parasite infections must have a source of infection.. meaning either they were fed live or frozen foods containing the parasite, it was brought in by a new fish that shared equipment, or new plants that weren't carefully quarantined.

If none of this applies, it's actually probably bacterial.. and I'd fast with epsoms and an antibiotic like Kanaplex, Triple Sulfa or if you can't find either Maracyn and Maracyn 2 in combo.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think I'd go with Triple Sulfa over the Maracyns since they can damage the kidneys, don't you think, Callistra?

I'm so sorry about this, Melodica.  

Warning, if you do go with the Triple Sulfa, be careful if you have an allergy to sulfa medications.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Well I'm not sure. Kanaplex and Maracyn is in the same family so it may be more effective.. but Triple Sulfa may be gentler. I'm not sure, as I've not done much research into the individual meds in Triple Sulfa.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hmm. If it's an urgent case, the Triple Sulfa will be easier to find at least. Good luck, Melodica!


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I actually just returned from picking up the General Cure. I saw Maracyn (I and II) at the local Petsmart, but I don't think I saw Triple Sulfa or Kanaplex.

I haven't put anything new in the tank, including plants or fish and no new food had been fed to him before this. I DID feed him some frozen daphnia, but that was a few days after he began looking bloated. None of the other fish in the tank appear to be ill either.

I've already added the General Cure (I followed the dosage on the box). Should I go back tonight and get Maracyn and add that too? If so, which Maracyn - I or II? And lastly, do I need to do a water change to remove the General Cure? I don't want anything to react badly with the Maracyn.

On a positive note, he DID eat a pellet when he noticed it floating, but he's hardly moving at all and his little fin is so pitiful.

I really REALLY appreciate all the help you guys have offered. Even if he goes, at least I know everything possible was done to save him.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Actually, never mind the question about which Maracyn, I saw what you said about it after I read your post a second time, Callistra. I'm going to get some just in case.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Update: He's now using both fins to swim again and he's responsive, but he's still really lethargic (hanging out at the top of the tank and not moving a lot). The bulge is not any smaller either and I still don't see any poop - white or otherwise.

I got the Maracyn I and II and started him on that - unfortunately I was stupid and didn't think to change the water to get rid of the General Cure beforehand. He seems to have improved somewhat rather than declined though, so maybe it wasn't a mistake that will kill him.

I'll continue to dose him with the Maracyn I and II and epsom salt and hope that helps him.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Maracyns and General Cure can be safely be combined. Good luck!


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Update: I've been medicating him per the directions on the boxes (API General Cure and Maracyn I and II) and using epsom salt.

All weekend he's been very lethargic and stays up near the filter, but still moves around well when he does move - both fins are still working. The bloating is still about the same and the white plug looking thing near where the poop comes out seems to be more prominent. I asked my fiance how he looks this morning and he said he saw a white sore on his side that may be leaking pus. What could that be? I should have pictures of that a little later. 

He won't eat - tried a bit of a pea and daphnia for the constipation. Usually he's a very good eater, but he almost ran away from both of them. 

How often should I change the water? He's in a filtered 5g tank, but the General Cure said to remove the carbon, so I've done that. His last treatment was yesterday though and the instructions on the box say to change some of the water after 48 hours. I just don't want the water quality to make him worse. 

Thanks again for all the help!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sorry he hasn't been getting any better. 

I'm worried that the sore on his side is because of his size.  

Go ahead and change the water about 30% and put the carbon back in because it will take the medication out. Did the medication have any effect on him?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

After I put the General Cure in he started moving the other fin again, but other than that I can't really tell that any of the medication, epsom salt or daphnia has done anything for his bloating. It might have gone down a LITTLE, but barely enough to be noticeable. 

For comparison, the first two pics attached are from when I first noticed the bloating and the last one was taken last night (sorry for the awful quality - he won't hold still and my cell phone camera is crappy). I'll post the ones of the white spot that my fiance mentioned when I get them.

I want to do everything I can for him, but I don't want him to suffer.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm home now and have some pictures and a better description of the white areas on my boy. They don't look like open sores, but more like the 'skin' is coming off in two places - this is only on his right side, nothing like that on the rest of his body. His stomach DOES look a bit less bloated, though I still see no poop in the tank. He is also moving around a little more, but he still won't eat at all.

Regarding the picture, he takes after his owner and hates the camera. Every time one of us tried to take pictures he'd swim away. This was about the best I could get.

Do I need to try another kind of medication? I still have a couple of doses of Maracyn I and II to give him to complete that run. Should I look for something like the Kanaplex that was mentioned before?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The best treatment for internal infections is feeding meds for parasites or Kanaplex for bacterial.. or in the water.. in either rate a 2-4 week treatment is needed.

Try the pea again.. I wiggle my little pinky finger in the water until I get their attention and they are right up on me, then I drop tiny little pea bits right in front of their face. I have yet to have a betta refuse it, but it's possible I suppose.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He looks slightly less bloated. Since you have the Maracyns still, continue with those. With an external wound like that, sometimes the best treatments are either just Kordon Fish Protector or an antiseptic like Pimafix (used in a half dose).


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I'll look for both of those things. I've also ordered some Kanaplex and Garlic Guard as well. I figure it's good to have all of it just in case.

Is the external wound something that usually happens when they bloat like that? 

Tomorrow is the last dose of the Maracyn and last night was the last dose of the General Cure. Do I need to wait a certain amount of time and dose again if he doesn't improve? 

Thanks again for all the help - both of you.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I have not seen sores like that on other fish with severe bloating and/or tumors. He may have accidentally scratched his bloated side against something and opened a wound. 

Kanaplex and Garlic Guard are both great to have on hand.

If he doesn't improve from the Maracyns, wait a week and then you can try the Kanaplex. If the Kanaplex fails, then I think it's safe to assume he has a tumor.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Great news! His swelling has gone down dramatically. He's still a bit bloated, but not nearly as much. I just took the pic below. The sores on his side are still there, but he's moving more and seems to have regained a bit of his old personality (though he's skittish and keeps hiding - probably tired of me staring at him!)

I bought some of the PimaFix and I'm going to look for the Kordon Fish Protector tomorrow (would you suggest one over the other or are they about equal?). I gave him the last dose of the Maracyns today - can I use those products with that or do I need to wait and change the water before using them?

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me. I know he's not completely out of the woods yet, but he's doing much better thanks to your advice.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay for reduced swelling!

I would change the water before adding the Pimafix for his wound. Be very careful not overdose the Pimafix as it has potential to harm the labyrinth organ (what they use to breathe surface air for). I don't often recommend Pimafix and Melafix but they are good for topical problems like his sore.

API Stress Coat also helps if you can't find Kordon Fish Protector. It will help him produce more slime coat, which is what will prevent the wound from becoming infected.

Do continue with epsom salts in the water at whatever dose you are using already.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I actually already use the API Stress Coat in all of my tanks, so I'll add a little more of that, keep up with the epsom salt and half dose the Pimafix in a couple of days.

Thanks again for all the help!


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## Picasso84 (Feb 11, 2013)

I've been keeping up with this thread, and it's sooo good to hear that the bloating has gone down! I will continue to keep my fingers (& fins) crossed!  

That would be my finned friends with the fins crossed! -Not me! Lol


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thank you so much, Picasso84! 

He's actually doing even better today. The bloating is almost completely gone. The white spots/sores are still there, but he's moving around a lot and even ate a pellet!

I'm going to dose him with the PimaFix tomorrow and get rid of the sores and hopefully he'll be as good as new. I don't know what I would have done without the advice and support from you guys. I really appreciate it and I know he does too!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

yay!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Err on the side of caution with the Pimafix. Give a half dose to start with and only increase the dosage by tiny increments if necessary.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Glad to hear he's feeling better! Now for those pesky sores.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Bloating is completely gone and he's eating again, swimming around more and seems to have regained most of his personality. 

There is something I'm concerned about though. The two sores on his right side have turned into one and though the size looks smaller, there is something stringy coming out of it. It's white/brown and almost looks like poop. Did his stomach explode or something?? Does anyone know what it could possibly be?

I changed the water this evening and continued with the epsom salt, Stress Coat and added half a dose (1/4 teaspoon) of the PimaFix. Are there any signs I need to look for regarding the damage it can do to the labyrinth organ?

The posted picture is about the best I could get of the stringy thing coming from the sore.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I think he would be pretty dead if his stomach exploded. I don't know. I would guess a type of parasite ??


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

I guess explode wasn't such a great word, but it does look really strange. It doesn't seem to be bothering him. He's active, alert and hungry, but it concerns me. Wonder if I should treat again with the General Cure as it says it's for parasites.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

If he has internal parasites, feeding meds i the way to go. It takes 3-4 weeks to treat this, and GC in the water for this long isn't safe.

I can't really see anything from your latest photo.. except his colors are really faded


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

If you look near where his little fin is, you can see a white string looking thing. That's what looks like it's coming out of him. 

As far as feeding meds, would the General Cure work, or should I look for something else? Also, is there a specific type of food that works better for medicating? He seems to have regained his appetite so I should be able to do that.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Treat like this: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=130469&page=0#post1451846


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The white stringy stuff you are seeing is most likely shed slime coat that built up while he was trying to protect the sores. What I would do is actually wait 3 weeks and then give him a final course of General Cure. That way, any eggs/larvae that were missed or were not susceptible to the meds will have grown up and can be eradicated. Depending on the type of internal parasite that he may have had, some stages in the parasite's life cycle do not respond to metronidazole and praziquantel, the main meds in General Cure. 

During those 3 weeks, it wouldn't hurt to keep him on 1 tsp of epsom salts and any tannins/Indian Almond leaves.

It is very unlikely that any internal parasites are coming out of the sores. For him to have that severe of an infestation, he probably would already be a goner. :/


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Update: He's doing MUCH better. Pretty much back to his full bouncy self. He's eating well and even the spots on his side look better, though some is still sloughing off. I've added extra Stress Coat to the tank to help with that. 

I've attached a pic taken this morning (with a much better camera). Thanks again to all for your help and support!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Very happy for his recovery 

Nice cave btw. Where did you find it?


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks.  If it wasn't for you guys, I don't know what kind of shape he'd be in.

I actually found the cave on Amazon a few months ago when I was shopping to stock my first tank. Some of the reviewers mentioned cloudy water or a strange smell, but I've noticed neither one of those. I cleaned it very well before I put it into the tank. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LTQ9WG/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

He likes to hide in it. I'll look for him and just see his nose poking out.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Keep up with the extra Stress Coat for a few more days at least. He looks almost as good as new.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks Sakura8! Do you think it's okay to stop using the PimaFix at this point? It concerns me a bit because of what you mentioned about the labyrinth organ. I haven't used any since that 1/4 teaspoon day before yesterday.

Of course now that he's better, my newest (and smallest) boy is having an issue. He seemed fine yesterday and doesn't look bloated or anything, but he keeps bobbing to the top of the tank and can't seem to keep his back end down. I'm concerned because he seems to be stressing himself out trying to stay upright. He keeps breathing heavily. I've moved him to the cup he came in to keep him from having to struggle so much. I used tank water that had epsom salt in it. Not sure what else to do except not feed him for a bit. 

I think these fish are determined to make my hair gray!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I would use the Pimafix for a few more days at the same low dosage, just to make sure that open wound is healing over. At the dose you're using, his labyrinth organ should be fine; it's mainly a problem when it is overdosed. 

Monitor your newest boy for any abnormal poo (white and stringy) and fast him for a day or two, no food. 1 tsp of epsom salt per gallon will help him if he is constipated, which can be a cause for swim bladder problems.


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

The bottle suggests using 7 days - I'm assuming at the low dosage that would be okay? He looks about the same as he did in the pic I posted yesterday - still a string of something coming off, but he's completely back to normal otherwise.

I had my newest boy temporarily in one of the cups floating in his part of the tank. Late last night I saw a little poop floating in it and he was swimming and acting fine again. I think I just overfed him. He's so much smaller than the others - I have to remember not to feed him as much.

Thanks again for all the help!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm really glad to hear your boy is getting back to normal. He was so large I was worried there! 

Happy to hear your new guy is doing better too.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I've never used Primafix before, but I'm definitely taking note of this thread.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's useless for internal infections and overall I don't recommend it because of the potential for overdose and therefore harm to the labyrinth organ but because of its antiseptic qualities, it's good for open wounds and sores and some cases of fin tearing. I only recommend it after I've gotten to know a user and know that they will dose it responsibly.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I was just thinking it might help in cases of external issues, but I suppose my vitachem and stress coat does that too. 

I think people like it because it coats wounds and keeps them from getting infected, yes?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

As an antiseptic, it cleans the wound out and helps to kill surface bacteria. Kind of like hydrogen peroxide on a cut but using natural ingredients. Vitachem is more of a nutrient supplement that bolsters the immune system.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It makes tears fuse together remarkably quickly and regrow more very rapidly as well. I think it does more than boost the immune system because of how rapidly this happens, but it's very good for that too. 

I understand the concern with Melafix, but what is the concern with Primafix? It contains west indian bay leaf (reminds me of IAL) and low doses of clove oil.. just because if you overdose you euthanize because of the clove oil?

ETA: Vitachem also contains an ingredient that promotes cellular growth.. uses with brittle nails, peripheral neuropathy, etc. I guess that explains it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I think it's the whole clove oil thing. Also, I was once told that oils in general are bad for a fish, especially a labyrinth fish. I'm not sure about that as the person had no scientific basis for their reasoning but better safe than sorry when I recommend it.

That reminds me, I need to get a new bottle of Vitachem. *runs off to Fosters and Smith website*


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