# First Breeding Attempt Unsuccesful (Criticism Free Thread)



## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hey guys,
SO, I think almost everyone who is a member on this site posted on my last thread about Breeding Impatience. I want to desperately start with a new clean slate.

Right now, I have my female in a 2.5 gallon tank being healed for her fins and resting. The male is still in his 10 gallon tank filled to about 5 inches of water. I am going to let the female rest until like March 1st or so. Then I am going to start conditioning both of them at the same time with their tanks side by side. After 2 weeks (middle of March), I am going to put the female inside the hurricane glass in the 10 gallon tank. I am going to let her in there for like 3 days minimum or until the male has finished a bubble nest. Then when I feel she is ready, vertical white stripes, belly full of eggs, doing a headstand on the bottom, I will release her to him. I know there will be some fin nipping, but I am pretty sure he's not supposed to go full throttle at her non-stop for 5 minutes like he has yesterday. I have read that it can take up to 2 days for them to finally embrace. But if he is going to go full throttle against her without any rest for either of them, I will know something is wrong correct?

So in short, I want to start this thread over and do it all right this time. I would really appreciate Turtles, Abby, MrVampire, and 1fish2fish's advice here. Anyone else can chime in as well, but please, please keep it legit and nice. I don't want another thread like the last one. Let's keep that in the past alright!

Thank you guys!
Justin


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I wouldnt keep their tanks side by side while conditioning. This could stress the female out if he is always over there bothering her because she has no space to escape.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

sigh thats not what i read and what people told me. here we go again with the mixed info. guys, i cant do this if your gonna give me mixed info all the time, please stop! so frustrating!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

sorry, i didnt actually read your other thread all the way through so i figured nobody had mentioned this.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Maybe this thread might be helpful. 
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/breeding-betta-fish/isolation-key-success-61419/


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

I think you should just give up


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i did give up. i put all the substrate in my 10 gallon so its my display aquarium and the female is in the 2.5 gallon that acts as a nursery. i give up for now until i know definately what im doing, then i will remove the substrate, etc. but my plants were dying, my female took some hard abuse, and i still have way much to learn, including that people give different advice that confuses the heck out of me which makes it even more difficult. but i picked 4 names out here on the forum who seem to have a pretty good idea of what they are doing.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

frankly if you are going to breed your bettas then you should pick a method and role with it. You may have to alter it a little to fit you and your bettas needs and this explains why you are getting mixed answers. Everybody has their own versions for breeding methods so you can't really say that I want somebody to tell me the best way of breeding bettas because really there isn't one. 

I know most people on here wouldn't dare try their hand at The Thai Way of breeding but I find that method is definitely the best method for me to breed my bettas.

Here is a website that has a few different breeding methods and descriptions on how to go about using them. I hope this helps.
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks bettalover, i know this is true. but i just cant realize why the male seemed ready and so did the female, but the male was just way too aggressive. if my male wasnt so aggressive, i think they would have gotten it done by now.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

so is there anyway to cut back on his aggressiveness?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

nice


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i think i know what went wrong. the female was showing striping patterns and she is full of eggs i think. but i was just too cautious for her health so i didnt allow them enough time to spawn. i left her and him together for as long as maybe 2 minutes tops. maybe if i left them together they would settle down and eventually go to the spawn. i heard this is normal? nonetheless, im not trying until near the end of march again after i do more research. i dont want my female to die, it took forever to get her. if i had a 5 dollar fish i would have just let them go.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> f i had a 5 dollar fish i would have just let them go.


Thats kind of mean, IMO. :/ a 5$ fish could be the same quality as a more expensive fish, but you would let get it get severely injured? Just because it's cheaper? Sorry, not trying to critisize or anything, it just stood out to me. ^^'


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't get discouraged.....lots of opinions because of so many different ways to not only spawn but to rear fry as well......lot of people with different experiences and opinions and this is good.....in my opinion......you take all this information with a grain of salt and once you gain your own experience with your first spawn...you will figure it out....you often have to tweak here and there from one spawn to another......no two are alike in my experience....maybe just small differences...but they usually are.....

Once you understand normal behavior this will help you understand abnormal behavior....learn the spawning triggers and signs so you know what to look for

Understand they you as a first time breeder as well as some experienced breeders can still have failures, injuries, problems...etc......learn, understand, grow and move on.....tweak and try a different method......but don't get discouraged and quit....spawning this species can be fun and rewarding and help a hobbyist grow in that aspect of the hobby.....


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

a 5 dollar fish is flipping expensive as HECK!!!! my fish were $2.49 each, and i have 5 
o.o


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I agree with BettaLover and OFL. 
Theres no "right" way to breed. Everyone does things differently and experiment as they go. 
Not all fish are compatible so you have to look at their behavior and if it doesn't work, then you try again. Many breeders will tell you to buy more than just one pair of fish if you want to breed. 
In my last attempt I had to switch males and females 4 times before I got a pair that clicked. 
My female/male that succesfully spawned were in the tank for 4 days before anything happened and the female was left with almost no fins. She was definitely interested but I guess my male had to prove that he was strong enough to take her because it took her a while to submit. 
There's also the whole misconception that if the male doesn't build a bubblenest he's not ready. This is not necesarly so, I have a male that refuses to make bubblenests even with a female in a jar inside the tank. He needs to have the female with him in the tank to be encouraged to build a nest. 
Yes, you will be all lost at the beginning and you will make mistakes but soon you will find something that will work for YOU.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Ok let's clear some things up:

1st...betta fry will not eat powdered food etc. they WILL eat microworms, vinegar eels, and baby brine shrimp. I reccomend all three foods...I can sell you some cultures but BBS eggs I do not sell.

2nd...fry are not easy to rehome unless your fish are in high demand.

3rd...I highly suggest reading the following sites:

www.bettatalk.com
www.bettysplendens.com 
and YOUTUBE!! Watch spawning and fry videos...these are incredibly helpful (but avoid the stupid ones).

Next..the breeding pair...HMs and HMPKs are in demand.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

If the male is too hyper/aggressive then try letting him see another male in a container next to him for about 20-25 minutes once every day or two so that he can take some of his energy out on that male, then try breeding him to the female a day after you stop exposing him to another male. By this point he should have clamed down at least a bit and will be less angressive towards the female.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Avoid the stupid ones. lol!!


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

im using a veil tail male and a halfmoon female. but after i read the post that the female had almost no fins, hints me towards, if i left her in there, she probably would have spawned within the next couple days. but i was just too cautious, like a mother with a baby so i took her out right away. it just looked like she was too exhausted to continue, she would just sit at the top like she was about to die. but now they are both in good shape and resting from the trauma i put them through today. still more research to do. its like life, you learn something new each day.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks bettalover, thats what ive been reading to let him take out his aggressiveness on a male. i bet if i did that, he would cut back on the female and she would let him spawn. but i just think he is way too aggressive and thats why this didnt work out.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

he might also be too large for her... he is about 3 inches and shes just about 2 inches. is this normal or do you think shes too small?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Veil tails....not an in demand fish. VTs are things of the past...pretty in their own right...but they are also not sanctioned in the IBC.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well i really liked my veil tail. i dont like male crowntails. male halfmoons are very very pretty, but i like veil tails second. my guess is halfmoons are the in demand right?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Yup and are heavily preferred by judges...I suggest you join the IBC.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

ah yes the IBC. that is a very nice site.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Ugh... Ok.. this is going to be long.

First off.. your breeding VT. This means all your babies will be VT. VT are NOT in demand so you'll have a hard time placing them, even on craigslist, even for dirt cheap. Just keep that in mind.

The reason your female got attacked is because you threw her straight into the tank without properly introducing her. First of all you are introducing the female into a tank that the male already lives in so he is going to defend his territory. This is going to make him even more aggressive than it would if you had introduced the pair in a proper spawning tank. This is why most breeders have a separate spawning tank and then have two other tanks that the male and female live in the rest of the time. Second of all you didn't leave her in the hurricane glass long enough. The male should be going back and forth between nest sites and flirting with the female. He should be flaring for her but not trying to attack her.. there is a big difference. After they've gotten a chance to get to know each other you can let her out while the male is not looking so at first he doesn't know she's loose. Make sure there is a LOT of cover in the tank so she can hide properly. Here is a picture of one of my old spawning tanks that is similar to your set up.. notice how much java moss I have. This enables the female to hide easily from the male so he cannot find her and will stop chasing her.










In my opinion it is better to not condition them together. I prefer to only let them see each other for the last couple of days before you introduce them. My reasoning behind this is because the female might become ready too quickly and release her eggs in her jar causing you to have to re-condition all over again. Of course everyone has their own methods they use but this seems to be pretty popular among breeders.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

the IBC. i should have just let them go, but i didnt want my female to get seriously hurt. i mean if the male continued his bubble nest when she was in there while he was chasing her, i would have let her in a little longer, but it seemed he just wanted to nip the crap outta her fins all the time relentlessly. but heres what i got from IBC.

*Courtship process *

Ok so you release the female and now your male is deciding he wants to kill her. Yup so now he's chasing her around the tank and nipping at her fins. Now she's looking for a place to hide, usually behind the filter, heater, plastic plants, live plants, and the java moss you put in the tank. She may hide for days at a time. In the meantime your male should be working on his nest.


the videos on youtube from IBC helped me so much when i first saw them. MrVampire is that you doing those videos? id assume you were a man since the Mr part, but maybe you like edward or something from twilight.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

No offence to the member of IBC or the people who follow all their guidelines but I really don't see the need to join this group. Yes, some of the top breeders are on that site but not everybody is a top breeder just yet. When members first start out with breeding bettas I think that as long as they have done a ton of research and know people and places that will take their fry then why should just help them with whatever extra questions they have to end up with a successful spawn. 

When people first start breeding they aren't necessarily looking to make a ton of cash from their spawn so what does it matter if they choose to breed veiltails or halfmoons?

So, with that out of the way, I would say to do what you want and breed whatever type and colour of bettas that you want because you are just looking for that experience not just seeing the fish as items to make prophet.

I'm sorry if this seems rude or offencive to any people, I am only speaking my mind and trying to stop the discouragement of breeding veiltails.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

ah 1fish2fish you really shed some light for me tonight. that java moss looks excelent for hiding spots. how expensive is that stuff? that stuff should hide my heater pretty well too.

anyways, heres all the photos i took today of their new homes for the time being until i can get this situated out. honestly, i think if i had just a little better hiding spots for the female and left them in longer, they would have spawned. but i am also now double guessing if i have room for them all after seeing a youtube video of a spawn going nuts over a piece of food. it was like a swarm of bees.

for now im comfortable with my setup:


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

bettalover that is really true. there are like 300 auctions for halfmoons on aquabid and only like 50 for veil tails. this makes me think if i breed veil tails, maybe more people would want them instead of the huge array of halfmoons. sure halfmoons like really pretty with their huge fanned fins, but i still like veil tails. it makes the fish look like half horse tail and half fish. thats why i picked out this fish at walmart. i originally just wanted a fish at walmart to put in this decorative item but then i saw the colors and really pretty horse tail on this fish and got it. who knew it would lead to all this! but i am really happy with my setups, check out the pic.

as for breeding, im going to hold off on it for a while. at least for another 2 months. this way i will have a much better understanding what the heck im doing plus give the fish time to rest.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

doesnt my female look full of eggs in that picture. her belly is all white and that pretzel salt thing is coming from her belly. of course you guys say its present on all females, but this one is really coming out. i think shes ready to breed. i also saw the vertical stripes when i had her inside the hurricane glass. now the vertical stripes are no longer there because i moved her away from the male.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

THAT is your spawning tank??????????? *facepalm*


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Is that last pic your breeding tank?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

There's a reason no one breeds VTs...THEY ARE NOT IN DEMAND. Unless the IBC sanctions them again they won't be in demand online.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

So your okay with creating possibly 100+ lives when it is very possible that very few people will want them? I don't know about where you live but here people aren't breaking down petsmarts door to get VT and they sure aren't looking for them on craigslist. The VT section of aquabid is a joke. Sure most new breeders aren't going to end up with more than 20 or so fry but even those will be hard to place. Not to mention few people want to pay $15-30 shipping for a fish they can pick up in a local pet store for $5

I'm not against people breeding VT as long as they aren't under the delusion their fry will be in high demand. When spawn threads start everyone always says "Ooh hold out one of those babies for me"... somehow 3 months down the road they seem to have forgotten that. You can't rely on anyone to take your babies, even more so with undesired tail types and colors. If your ok with that or don't have any scruples about handing your fry over to a pet store than breeding VT is just fine.


As for the IBC.. it's more than just breeders. Its also about educating the younger generations on bettas in general. You can learn a lot about treating diseases, food, care, history, behavior, genetics, and all other manner of things from people who have been in the game for a long time... like 30+ years long. It's also about re-creating lost colors and even lost tail types. IBC breeders won't begrudge you for breeding VT as long as you realize that they are not popular and they are not showing signs of re-gaining popularity any time soon. The IBC also is working to save and describe wild species of bettas and working to get people breeding those species who are becoming endangered because of habitat loss.

Edit ^^^ that was directed towards Bettalover101s post.

JC.. java moss is usually pretty inexpensive. I can't see your pictures so I can't comment on your spawning set up. If you could upload them to a photobucket or flickr I will comment.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

lol, it WAS my spawning tank yes. i had the water level down to 5 inches, no substrate, 2 amazon swords, a bunch of pvc pipes, the heater, the filter, and no squidward. trust me it was a good spawning tank. the female hid in the plants and the heater the entire time. she found good hiding spots but the male was just being way too rough, because i didnt leave her in the hurricane long enough i dont think. im too impatient. and im learning that is causing nothing but heartache, so im putting this off until the beginning of April.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

this thread has officially begun derailed again. time to move on. i think i got all the info i need.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Just because you like the veiltales, doesnt mean the public wants them, which means finding homes will be VERY hard. At least order a male halfmoon. I dont think you have all the info you need, since your even considering breeding a VT to a HM. No offence, I'm not trying to be mean, no one here is, we just want to help, but your not really listening.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

actually people in the world do want them. if you can sell your veiltails to local pet stores then they will sell them to their customes and most customers buying bettas arent interested in the tail type they just love the colours or their kids want a fish and this is the first type that comes to mind so yes there are people who will buy her veiltails and no the entire population of people buying bettas does not exist on sites such as aquabid so let this member breed whatever fish they choose, it is their first time after all and everybody here seems to be ruining this experience for them.

So, to jschristian44, have fun breeding your veiltails and I'm glad we were able to help you. Happy breeding!


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well heres the deal. i posted a listing on craigslist posting that free babies from the offspring of these parents and i have pictures of my bettas. i already got 4 emails within the hour saying people want them. and one email might even take them all from me, so thats pretty cool. im still deciding on what to do though. but see, i told you finding homes is the least of my worries.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

A bit off topic, but does the female look bloated or is it just me?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Unless you are IBC oriented and want to show your fish...I have found a great demand for not just VT but unique crosses....I can't keep up with demand and I sell well over 500 Bettas a year.....more people seem to want a unique Betta and have zero interest in showing their unique wet-pet that has no standard in the IBC....more people seem to want a pet and not a show fish

Without the VT we would not have the ever popular HM today...VT is the grandfather of domesticated Bettas....if we lose the VT we could lose a lot of hobbyist that often get their start in Bettas with the VT.... and then they move on to other tails types and then to the IBC and Betta showing....

Without the brave people that took the chance and crossed tail types....we wouldn't have some of the tail types we enjoy today...like the HM.....

When lt boils down....spawning fish is just another aspect in this hobby and to discourage a person from experimenting with tail types is doing a dis-service to the species....you are correct....IBC does not have a standard for the ever popular VT...once the most popular tail type...the only tail type for many years when it was first domesticated.....its sad that the VT is being tossed to the side when it was what made this species so popular to start........the grandfather of the Betta splendens.....

Although IBC members will disagree.......


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Well said OFL.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

@ Oldfishlady

So true. I don't think it matters what he breeds together, all that matters is that he does it the safe and right way.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

dont worry i will do more research before i try it again. but as for homes, i can easily find them homes thats nothing im worried about at all. like i said for most people that would be a problem, but i have good ways on selling them for free or for a cheap profit to start. and oldfishlady, well, well said.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

If you aren't planning on showing then IBC standards don't mean anything to the hobbyist who just wants a pet.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> sigh thats not what i read and what people told me. here we go again with the mixed info. guys, i cant do this if your gonna give me mixed info all the time, please stop! so frustrating!



This is why I tell everyone, If you want the facts, Go to a respected betta breeding site and get your info. There is multiple ways to breed, You have to pick what works for you. The message boards and forums are for asking some small questions here or there, or asking or getting answered a small question. If you ask how to breed on here, a lot of the people are going to say, well I do this and I do that. This is what works for me.! Or in my opinion this is bla bla bla. This gets all kinds of confused people.
Some people would even go as far to say, don't have him in the tank he is going to breed in, until your ready for him to blow a nest. 
Plain and simple, they are betta fish not a saltwater fish. It's not rocket science, there's some black and white guidelines, follow them and then tweak them to suit your breeding style and method. 
As for the male going all out on the female.!! I have actually had to put another male in the tank, with the female removed at this point, anyway I have had to put another male in the tank and let them flare and nip and fight a little, then he is not aggressive towards the female when I put her back.
And then also when conditioning them, you will be able to tell when she is ready, the ways you stated above and also, my favorite one.! When he is blowing his nest and swims over to flare at her, and she flares back at him, Like bring it.!!! Then I let them together and in a day there going at it..


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> If you aren't planning on showing then IBC standards don't mean anything to the hobbyist who just wants a pet.



The IBC standards should mean something to you, even if your just a pet owner.! 
The reason I say this is, Just because someone is going to be a dog owner, not a breeder, They shouldn't worry about Akc standards. Because a lot of people I no that just buy dogs not breed. Always want a dog with papers.. It's more professional and it is showing you care about that breed of the animal.! 
Same thing goes with bettas, if your going to keep a pet, I want to better the breed or just have a decent fish, then I look for IBC standards in the fish. Even if you don't plan to breed, in case it happens down the road, You are putting out quality bettas and helping to better the breed, not set it back.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

And when you say a IBC quality betta does not mean, you have to show it or it's for show. It is just a really good genetic background beta. That you can just have as a pet or sky the limit.
But I will tell you when you breed a pair of IBC bettas and look at the offspring and then compare them to the offspring of the betta in a cup/store bought. The IBC betta makes some awesome, I mean one of a kind bettas. With great finage.
When breeding regular bettas, it sets you back, It takes years to get to the level of the IBC bettas for sale, if you ever reach that level. Or you buy some IBC bettas and you have a good start..


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I was just on Aquabid and saw this   

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1297383434

He is getting rid of her :/


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

None of my fish meet IBC standards but I care about them the same as I would if I had one that met the standards.


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you for not breeding her. But you should still keep her as a pet... kind of wrong to get rid of a Betta because she wont breed, that alone proves you aren't breeding for the right reasons. You're planning on starting cheap and then charging, so I'm thinking it might be money, but it might be just to see what it's like to breed. You shouldn't breed for that, you should breed to improve Bettas as a species. I think it's wrong to breed VT's because it doesn't improve Bettas at ALL. VT's genetics are so messed up they don't live as long and have all sorts of deformities. Breeding a VT and returning a female because she wont breed... that's selfish.

Next time set a goal and get everything before you get your Bettas. Don't breed that male, it'll cause some problems because of his genetic history. He's probably old which means lots of deformed fry that you need to cull (kill) and you might think of him as young. But most petstore Bettas are 6 months to a year old minimum, and around 3.5 - 6 months is really the best time to breed.

EDIT: Also, no one's going to buy her on aquabid. Most buyers are breedings looking for some HIGH quality stock. She isn't really exotic enough to catch a regular pet owner's eye... at least not in that photo.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I am so sad about this right now


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## Emmalea (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm feeling super bad for that poor little fish, I really wish I could buy her but I live in Canada and getting her to my house would be a nightmare. 
Is there anyone on here who lives close to where she is? If there is someone who would give her a good home I would be willing to buy her and send money for a tank whatever else was needed. 
If anyone would be up for this let me know.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

WoW he is just going to sell her off, Just because she wouldn't breed. So he say's, I bet you if I conditioned that female on live foods and conditioned her in my 10 gallon divided in half so she has 5 gal and he has 5 gal, I bet I could get a spawn out of her... Anyway thats why I order Double pairs of the fish I am going to breed, Some fish just dont like each other some fish just dont no what to do... 
And if your really planning on breeding for money, Talk to me in a year from now and let me no how that goes. Not being rude, just the truth. After buying!
Fish food, Live ,Frozen, And flake
Water conditioners and other water treatments Aquarium salt etc....
Filters and Filter Replacement cartridges
Indian Almond Leaves
Ibc betta congress year registration
Electric Bill
And therers plenty more...
So after all that you dont make a profit, Your lucky if you break even. I do it because I love bettas, I want to help make the betta of the future, I want to help better the species to better the breed.. thats why I breed..


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

This member obviously isn't doing this for a prophet as any fry that they were selling were going to new homes for free. Also, it isn't really a necessity for them to spend 20 or 30 bucks to join IBC any time soon seeing as this is only their first spawn so you can take that off the list. 
I highly doubt that they will even bother breeding anymore though seeing as how mean everybody has been to this new member who is only trying to breed their bettas and as questions to make sure that their set-up sounds right.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

No one is being mean. If you don't want people tp share their opinions then don't post on an internet forum.

As far as breeding VT... If you've got homes be my guest. As long as hundreds of VT are rotting away in pet stores in my area I'm not going to brred them.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well i found out this morning that theres a ton of the females eggs floating near the top of her aquarium, i knew i shouldnt have moved her. can i transfer the eggs to my 10 gallon and the male will put them in a bubble nest or is that not possible.


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## Panthera (Nov 2, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> well i found out this morning that theres a ton of the females eggs floating near the top of her aquarium, i knew i shouldnt have moved her. can i transfer the eggs to my 10 gallon and the male will put them in a bubble nest or is that not possible.


If you are even thinking of breeding, you should already know the answer to this question. The only thing you will accomplish from giving the eggs to the male, is giving him a nice protein snack. The pair needs to embrace, where he squeezes the eggs out of her, and as they fall he releases sperm to fertilize them. 

Please just keep the two separate and don't sell the female. I suggest doing research for the next month or two, because no matter how much you think you might know about breeding. You don't know enough. And selling a fish just because you haven't met the conditions that will allow her to breed in, is just downright wrong. When you buy an animal, you become responsible for them, and to give them a good life. That doesn't mean throwing them aside when they don't do what you want them to.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I reallt wish you had listened to vamp and myself on the original thread. I'm sorrry you were given such horrible information by other posters although they were right in saying you should wait. The reason why your fish didn't spawn wasn't because the female wasn't ready its becauseyou didn't introduce her properly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> . I'm sorrry you were given such horrible information by other posters


 
Get off your high horse. I wager when you started out in the Betta breeding hobby you made plenty mistakes as well. 

That said, it's obvious the OP is a trial by fire guy. He's the type who prefers to learn by doing, even if means mistakes along the way.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

scootshoot said:


> *Get off your high horse. I wager when you started out in the Betta breeding hobby you made plenty mistakes as well.*
> 
> That said, it's obvious the OP is a trial by fire guy. He's the type who prefers to learn by doing, even if means mistakes along the way.


 Have you read her first spawn logs?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

im a guy, not a her.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Why are you selling her?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

jschristian44 said:


> im a guy, not a her.


 I was talking about 1fish2fish.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

im not selling her. im breeding her now! they are sooo close to making a spawn i can feel it, and with a big storm coming it makes it even better. i am keeping an eye on them and theres no damage being done to her. he just keeps flaring at her and she gets closer to the nest. man i cant wait!


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

You didn't let her rest?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

she is doing fine. i didnt want him to lose interest. she is doing fine, dont worry. i KNOW what i am doing.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm not trying to be rude, but no you really don't. He won't lose interest bettas don't miss each other like that. You need to let her rest from the first attempt.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

jschristian44 said:


> she is doing fine. i didnt want him to lose interest. she is doing fine, dont worry. i KNOW what i am doing.


 If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't be posting here.

Read this:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=51624


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't be posting here.
> 
> Read this:
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=51624


 MrV, ohhhlol.

OP, he really knows his stuff... Honestly, this is like going to the doctor, asking whats wrong, finding out, then saying..
NOPE! Youre wrong. Not gonna do that/listen to your expertise.
:c


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

No disrespect (read: I'm not being angry or mean ok? :]) dude but when you got your plants (the swords, remember I answered your question on another thread) you didn't even research that properly beforehand. You had no idea that they required substrate or at least root tabs and that they don't do well in a bare bottom tank.

Also you never posted that you got more moss for your girl to hide in. Also a this point I believe I'd need a picture to ease my mind and to prove to me that you made the necessary changes.

And if you're breeding in that tank RIGHT NOW when the tank has substrate then I hope you plan on transferring the eggs to a different tank somehow because that's going to be one MAJOR pain to clean while you're trying to grow them out.

And now that you're spawning again do you have an extra home for the male? and jars or containers for all of the fish once they start getting bigger?
Are your food cultures ready?

Please take the female out. Please give her a couple of weeks to rest and a month or so to recover. In the mean time you can be excited about setting everything up for your future fish (you need to think of your spawn in terms of 50 to 100 _*Fully Grown Fish) *_by purchasing large jars, starting your food cultures and maintaining them, and purchasing another 10 gallon tank and possibly a stand for it as a designated spawning tank so that you're not trying to breed in your males permanent home, and purchasing lots of moss and other floating plants such a hornwort, and wisteria off of the internet and finally the most important thing: RESEARCHING. You can NEVER know too much about spawning and betta care. 

Let me test you on something. Might seem irrelevant right now but trust me.

What is the best medicine and care method for velvet?

It something the little ones can get if you're not careful.

Good luck on your FUTURE spawn (as I highly suggest you do the right thing and wait till April or at least March) and tell us how it goes.

Remember: you can never know enough ahead of time. =]


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

best care method is isolation and indian almond leaves. not sure. but please back me up, the female is doing fine and she is gonna stay in there until she is spawning. No disrespect but she is ready and just fine. Other than that, thanks for your concerns!


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

and i knew the roots needed substrate, im not that dumb.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)




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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> best care method is isolation and indian almond leaves. not sure. but please back me up, the female is doing fine and she is gonna stay in there until she is spawning. No disrespect but she is ready and just fine. Other than that, thanks for your concerns!


No offense, but if you don't even know basic stuff like a cure for Velvet I don't think you should be breeding right now.

And no she is not fine. Do you realize how much stress you have put her through?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

lower lights, raise temp, add aquarium salt...


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

if she doesnt spawn by sunday afternoon, which i am pretty sure she will, i will pull her.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I get the feeling you just looked it up.

Like we have all been saying, TAKE HER OUT AND LET HER REST.

Do you realize how much you are stressing her?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

no offence but you should do some real research before you answer a questions like how to cure velvet. I know just by your answer that all you did just now was googled 'how to cure a betta with velvet' click the first link and then clicked the link that explained how to treat it. That isn't the proper way to treat velvet as you missed the most important step which is to quarantine your fish!! Don't expose one fish to the rest and give the other fish a salt bath or give a whole tank of fish treatment for velvet for an entire week. If you don't see symptoms for velvet on other fish then don't expose them to this kind of treatment.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

And by the way if that is your spawning tank in those pics it isn't good enough.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Please take her out. All of the stresses she has been going through will kill her! I will list them

1)You didn't let her rest from shipping
2)You didn't condition the bettas to each other
3)You irresponsibly put the female with the male and she got hurt really bad
4)You took her out, let her catch her breath, and put her right back in after it CLEARLY was not working out.
5)You put her up for sale on Aquabid (which would have caused more shipping stress)
6) She is now back in with the male ??? 

All of this in about one week. I am so upset for your poor fish.

No one has a problem with you breeding, what we do have a problem with is the way you are choosing to carry that out.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

scootshoot said:


> Get off your high horse. I wager when you started out in the Betta breeding hobby you made plenty mistakes as well.
> 
> That said, it's obvious the OP is a trial by fire guy. He's the type who prefers to learn by doing, even if means mistakes along the way.


What part of what I said was me being on a high horse? I was giving this poster the benefit of the doubt BECAUSE everyone was coming at him in the first thread he posted in Betta care giving him all sorts of conflicting information. I think half of the people who were giving advice haven't even spawned yet and all it did was to confuse the kid worse. I'm not going to go back and quote each misinformed or misdirected post because quite frankly I have actual fry to take care of and I'm done trying to get this poster to listen to some advice.

Also... and everyone needs to listen to this. There is NOTHING wrong with spawning a fish soon after receiving them in the mail. Breeders do this all the time to ensure they get the genetics passed on in case something bad happens. HOWEVER.. this OP did not go about spawning in the correct way. The reason (as I have said like 3 or 4 times now) that the spawn didn't work out was not because the fish was stressed from shipping but because she wasn't introduced properly because the OP refuses to learn about behavior.

Learning by errors is how we all get our start but its one thing to make common mistakes and a completely different thing to ASK for advice, ignore it, then ask how to fix it. He doesn't want to actually learn by error. He is coming here looking for approval for his errors.

Breeding is about patience. That is the most important thing to have and this OP doesn't have it. I'm sorry if anyone thinks that is offensive but anyone who has ever raised fry knows that you have to have a lot of patience. You have to know when the time is right to release the female, when the time is right to remove her, when the time is right to remove the male, have the patience to watch babies grow at a snails pace.






OP.. You want to know what my advice is? This is the last time I'll be posting on any of these threads so if you want it here is your chance.

Get your equipment. A tank or tub for the spawn, a tank for each fish, heaters, plants, food, or whatever else you need.

Recondition each fish for two weeks. Get frozen foods or live foods and feed them 2-3 times each day and do daily water changes.

Set up your spawning tank however you see fit. I've already shown you what works well for me. Add the male and the female at the same time (but have the female in a jar). Watch their behavior. When the male begins his bubblenest and the female seems ready to breed but not stressed release her. I always release my females at night right before I turn the lights off. Make sure she has lots and lots of places to hide.

Keep watching them. Is the male constantly chasing the female? Take her out. Is he working on his nest and periodically looking for her? Leave her in there. Let them spawn on their own time schedule. There is not set amount of days that a spawn can or will happen in. My spawns usually take place within 24 hours of the breeders being put in the spawning tank, always has been that way. Every fish spawns differently. BE PATIENT. IF the female becomes stressed and is breathing rapidly and not moving from one spot for long periods of time, take her out and try again.

Keep reading. We cannot give you the answers. You have to take the information you read and THINK. Take what you learn and put it towards your own methods.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Our Progress Since The Beginning of This Thread:


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

bettafish15 said:


> Our Progress Since The Beginning of This Thread:


That picture is the only way to accurately describe this whole ordeal.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

bettafish15 said:


> Our Progress Since The Beginning of This Thread:


I love that gif.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

If you like gifs then you may like this website.

senorgif.memebase.com/


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

I'LL HELP.

This is my last time posting in one of these threads, and I'll help you. I understand that you seem genuinly confused, so I'll explain in the nicest and easiest to understand way possible.

What are we saying? Well, here's what people are saying that's making these threads turn into arguements. 

We want you to take the female out of the spawning tank and put her in her own tank. Then we want you to leave her in her own tank (It's best if her tank is out of view from the spawning tank, but it doesn't have to be!) Until her fins are completely healed and perfect again. Then once she's healed and you want to breed again, you will start conditioning. To condition a pair, keep them in their seperate tanks, make sure they can't see eachother. Give them super healthy water, and feed them frozen blood worms and frozen brine shrimp ONLY (No pellets) for 4-8 days. Then you move the tanks so that they can see eachother but are still in their seperate tanks for around 3 days, still only feed frozen food. Once the female has verticle stripes and eggs, place her in the glass in the tank and begin the sawning process.

Now, why we are saying this.

I believe this is what's confusing you. I'll tell you why we want you to remove the female first.

The reason why is because she is turning sick and tired. Imagine you were locked up in your house, and a big terrifying monster was locked up with you. Now imagine this monster would occasionally pop up and start chasing you and attacking you. You would be pretty stressed and tired, right? Well, that's what it's like for the female. She may eventually die from the terror of it.

And now I'll explain why we condition. 

When you condition, you are fattening up the Bettas with the frozen food. The reason why we do this is because the pair may go a long while without eating, and they need to have a lot of energy for this. Conditioning also prepares the females. Her stripes start appearing and so do the eggs. By the time you release her once you do this her eggs are fully developed, and they'll spawn quickly because they don't have to wait for them to develope.

Hope I helped you. If you read this and do it, you'll find your fish will be much happier.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

time out!
A) hes got the advice he asked for
B) he will do it his way in the end.
C) no need for everyone to continue with this thread i am sure hes collected his info and picked out what he determines will work or not. in the end he will succeed or he will fail theres nothing anyone can do to stop or help. people ask for info on all subjects and such but a lot do the same thing. so come on everyone stop posting in this thread.


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## bearwithfish (Sep 29, 2009)

Abby said:


> time out!
> A) hes got the advice he asked for
> B) he will do it his way in the end.
> C) no need for everyone to continue with this thread i am sure hes collected his info and picked out what he determines will work or not. in the end he will succeed or he will fail theres nothing anyone can do to stop or help. people ask for info on all subjects and such but a lot do the same thing. so come on everyone stop posting in this thread.


i could not have said it better myself.... if any of you have read the few threads i have started in any of the betta sections you would know better than to feed ... into this type of thread..... let it go let it go


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

+1


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

turtle10 said:


> If you like gifs then you may like this website.
> 
> senorgif.memebase.com/


Haha, thats where I got mine!


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