# Gillmore Girls



## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Made the mistake of looking at the betta rack and a little platinum HM female caught my eye. I wasn't planning on doing a sorority in my 20 long because I generally prefer the look of males. The store also had a marble/cello, a tiny turquoise, and a cambodian. I knew I wanted more than 4 so I also picked the smallest red VT they had. I dropped those 5 at home and went to two other stores in search of more girls. I found a black HM that I might have to go back for at one store and picked up a marble and two aqua/turquoise at another. I lined all the girls up and started the acclimating process while judging the aggression levels to determine the order they were going to be released. 

Since all my other fish have "punny" names I had to come up with 8 more:

*The Gillmore Girls:*
*Mary Kate and Ashley Ocean* - the two aqua/turquoise girls, I can tell them apart next to each other but it's difficult when you only see one
*Georgia O'Reef* - Red VT
*Marlin Monroe* - Platinum HM
*J.K. Trawling* - Turquoise HM
*Tina Fillet* - Cambodian HM
*Jane Ponda* - Marble HM
*Oprah Finfrey* - Marble/Cello HM

I'll have to update when they're in the tank with better pictures and personalities. So far everything looks good, all the girls are tiny and don't seem like they will bother the corys and adult RCS I have in there already (I'm expecting a few shrimp fatalities, especially babies).


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

I'd suggest filling out the front area of the tank with more plants. The more line of sight break up the better. Hope the girls all get along.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Aqua Aurora said:


> I'd suggest filling out the front area of the tank with more plants. The more line of sight break up the better. Hope the girls all get along.


Thanks for the advice, I actually had to take out plants to make room to float cups, they're back in now that the girls are in. Everyone seems to be getting along pretty well so far!


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Pretty successful first night. The only "problem" girl is the red VT, she is particularly persistent in chasing her target all around the tank. Ironically she is also the one with the most fin damage. Before I went to bed last night she got put into the breeder box and this morning she is still trying to kill everything in sight. Hopefully with some adjustments she'll calm down but for now shes in "time out". She seemed like one of the more aggressive ones in the cups but in the beginning I thought marble and cambodian were going to be the aggressors. Marble was for the first 20 minutes and then gave up after being chased by red and cambodian never attacked anyone. 

Pecking Order:
Red
Smaller Blue Twin
Marble 
Cello/Marble
Cambodian
Larger Blue Twin
Turquoise
Platinum

Honestly besides the top two everyone else just gives each other the side eye every once in a while. My only real concern is Red for aggression, small blue is definitely dominant but not super aggressive. On the opposite end the larger blue twin seems pretty stressed, she's always striped and doesn't want to interact with the others. Everyone besides platinum is eating really well and they all get along during meal time. 

I'm glad they're all quite young, I'll have to get some shots with a ruler to show how tiny they really are. Besides the problem child everyone else seems to get along and they're leaving the other inhabitants in the tank alone. Sorry for the bad phone pictures, I'll try and get ones with my real camera later today. I'm enjoying discovering all their personalities and watching the interactions between them!


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## betta8 (Sep 9, 2016)

Nice fish, I love the creative names!


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

While I was taking close-up pics of the girls I discovered platinum is pineconing, it's so hard to see because of her color. Her behavior hasn't been too strange and could have been explained by the stress of moving but she isn't eating and seems to spend more and more time either at the top or the bottom. So now she's in a 1gal hospital tank that she makes look huge. I'm raising the temp in the hospital tank and treated with epsom salt for now. She is swimming all over the hospital tank, I really hope she's fine, she was the reason I decided to start a sorority.

Red is still in time out and shows no signs of slowing down. I'm wondering if it would be kinder to large blue to rehome her, she doesn't seem to be dealing with the stress of community living very well. The rest of them get along amazingly, they're soo much fun to watch!

Here's better pics of all of them, and a pic of platinum from the top, it's really hard to see the pineconing.


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## BettaSplendid (Jul 12, 2015)

They're beautiful! I hope your favorite will be alright. The red girls are always fiesty.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

So Marlin Monroe (the platinum) died last night, I was soo excited because she had pooped in the hospital tank and was zooming around. I found her in the weirdest position, it was like she was perfectly balanced and swimming normally on the surface, except she wasn't swimming. 

This morning everyone in the main tank was fine and after I fed them breakfast I let for the day (have to come up with a better system because I have a couple gluttons who don't like to share). I just got back and found JK Trawling (turquoise) and the large blue Ocean twin dead the same way I found platinum on the surface. None of the other inhabitants are showing any negative signs, the corys are fine and the shrimp are running around because a female molted. 

What the heck is going on?? Platinum and turquoise were from the same store but blue isn't. I tested my water and can't find anything wrong there. Neither of the two today are pineconed at all and weren't acting strange this morning. Is it my tank? Am I missing something? I've never had casualties like this before. :crying:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Pineconing is due to liver or kidney failure. Kidney failure is the most common. Kidney's are what filters out the water that comes in. When one or both kidney's fail, the fish will bloat up as the water can enter but can no longer exit. When the liver fails, the fish will typically pinecone but not bloat in the same way since the liver has a different job. These differences are not 100% accurate but they are what I've found to be true more often than not.

Sometimes kidney failures are led to from a disease. If a disease of some sort was brought in by the first girl and then spread to your other girls, it could have the same effects. This is why it is so important to quarantine all new fish, even if you are putting them together in the end.

I'm sorry to say that sororities have a maximum lifespan of about a year. Even though the girls can tolerate each other, they cannot leave peaceably despite what you may have read. Many times people who are excited about doing something "new" with Bettas will write an article about it and how it is possible but once their fish die, they never come back to say that it didn't work. Sororities are a high risk tank and unfortunately...disease will be the ultimate downfall of them. I hate to talk like this and be all negative but I've seen so many sororities fall in the time that I've been here and I hope that your fish will be okay.

Sororities need a few things to happen for it to work out okay: large enough tank, less girls and so many plants that you can't see through your tank. Right now you have a good number for your tank (down to 5? or 6?) and I don't think you should get any more for a while, especially if more start to die off. But you need more plants, tall ones and floating ones to be exact. You need to break up the sight lines of the fish so they don't fight all the time.

One of the things about fish is that they have a secret language. They have body language but they have so much more than that, a language that we cannot hear or see. Their pheromones play a huge deal in this as well as their body language. You need to learn how to read them first before you throw them together. Females, however similar to males, do act differently to different situations and it's important to know which is which.

This is essentially how your tank should look: lots of plants. You can do real or fake, doesn't matter for the girls. It's imperative that you have top cover though.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Thanks for the advice, if things get worse I'll separate them. Here's a really bad shot of my tank from the top, it's hard to tell but there's really only a 3x5"ish empty space in the front, is that dense enough? I've broken up all the sight lines on the front and put a few hides in the back, as well as added more plants just floating above the planted ones.

The five remaining girls seem to be doing fine, I even released Red after rearranging the tank and there haven't been any problems. I'm able to watch the tank almost constantly and I haven't seen any more chases across the tank. Fingers crossed it works but if it doesn't I'm prepared to separate them. Would dosing with general cure or something help as a preventative if the tank is infected from the first girl?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks for the picture, that looks better for sure.

I would not dose anything simply because you don't know the origin or what it even is. It could also just be a fluke and it happened that you purchased some sick girls without knowing it. Many of the betta's all come from the same distributor so it could have come from there even. But adding medication without knowing, it could cause more harm than good. That's only for big things like antibiotics or antiprotozoans. You can add things like antidotes or antiseptics though. I recommend you keep Methylene Blue on hand since its hard to come by these days and oh so useful. It stains like crazy so I wouldn't add it to display tanks but good for hospital tanks. Aquarium salt can also be used as a preventative too. 1 tsp of salt per 5 gallons is a nice low dosage that even plants can handle. This helps prevent infection from open wounds and can help the kidney function better as well. Only low dosages of salt helps the kidney though, higher and it can cause osmotic stress to the fish.

The best way to introduce girls to each other is to have them together in cubes/cups floating next to each other for at least two weeks. From there, the release would have been much more calm (you can still do this even after releasing them all) since they have established their pecking order by sight and smell instead of by force. Also, if you have to put a girl in "time out" make sure it's done for at least a week. I recommend keeping her in tank but keep her in a cup or breeder box so that she can't escape but can still see the other girls and do no damage.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

From the pictures I posted of the girls it looks a lot more open than it actually is, I'm glad you can see it from the top! I'm also going to get a few PVC hides as well. Is that low a does of AQ salt safe for the RCS? 

Red is going back into "time out" for sure so I guess I'll cup all the girls up tonight. How should I do WCs in their cups? I've never kept them in anything that small for a prolonged period of time.

Thanks for the help!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What I usually do is use a turkey baster to pull out the waste and replace it with fresh water daily. Since you aren't QT'ing them, they can share the water just fine. I usually also hook the cups to the side of the tank so they don't float around, I use a simply twisty tie or something stiff like that if you've got it, piece of metal wire works too if it doesn't go into the water.

And yes, shrimp are usually fine with low level salt. Just make sure you keep track of it. If you take out half the water then you also took out half the salt and will replace it when you add more water. Always dissolve the salt first. But if you end up adding water after just some evaporating, do not add salt because salt doesn't evaporate like water does. Up to you if you want to use it, you don't have to, it was just a suggestion


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Found the little Cambodian HM passed away when I went to feed and clean cups this morning. She wasn't very interested in food last night, but that was the only warning sign, her body isn't pine-coned and is a little bloated.

Now I'm worried about Marble, she's still a little bloated today after pooping a TON last night (she escaped her cup the day before and ate a bucnh of an algae wafer). She hasn't gotten any additional food since and refused a pellet this morning. Am I just being paranoid because of everything else that happened?

Everyone else is fine, mad that they're in the cups, but acting normal and eating well.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Marble should be okay, just don't feed her for the next 3-5 days so she can successfully pass all the food she's eaten. Honestly, she doesn't look terribly fat, I've seen a Betta eat a few wafers and blow up three times the size of that lol but they were fine after some fasting days. She should be able to pass all that within the next 24 hours or so.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Thanks haha! I was just worried because none of the other girls who passed away were as bloated as her. Before they were separated she liked hanging out with the corys, when they get released I'm going to have to find a better way to feed everyone since she will obviously eat everything in sight.


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

Marble is gone :crying:

She was fine when I did WCs a few hours ago, it looked like she passed a lot of the wafer she ate. I feel like giving up. The other three are a feisty as ever and none of the other tank inhabitants are having problems.

Would it just be kinder at this point to return them? I don't want to doom them to pet store life but it seems better than dying one by one with me. With some tank shuffling I might be able to house them separately (not in divided tanks), but I don't want to keep them in the 20 if this is going to happen. 

I've never had a betta die on me like this, never mind this many so close to each other.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The store will only euthanize them or re-sell them. Honestly, even if their life is short, it's better with you at least. That is, my opinion though. I'm sorry for your loses, but I would also say that you've probably learned a great deal from this encounter at least. With the remaining girls, I would keep them in the cups for at least a week and release. You might end up doing okay with just 3 girls in the larger tank (won't work in a 10 gallon). And then from there, if you do add more girls do it one at a time and float them for 2 weeks. Ideally QT them for 2 weeks prior. It's a long process but it's what you have to do to ensure the health of the fish


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## halleyana (May 25, 2016)

I don't have the highest hopes for them co-habitating because they're the three most aggressive of the group, and with only each other to focus on they're going nuts in their cups, hopefully it settles down or I'm going to have to do some rearranging. 

Thanks for the help though!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's why you keep their cups close together at all times for the next week. This will prevent them from hurting each other but they can still see. They may eventually calm down. But plants, lots of plants and driftwood sticking up will help break up sight lines and stuff as I mentioned before so that can help as well if you wanted to keep them.


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