# velvet not going away....



## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

So Ive been using Rid Ich+ for a week now, and I can't see any changes at all. The only thing it's managed to do is stain my dresser, towels, and aquarium silicone. I increased the dosage to twice a day now, but is it worth it? it's not doing anything... how long does it take?


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Are you sure your Betta has velvet? Did you try the black out method before going with meds?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm pretty positive... he has yellow pixie dust all over his fins, and some of his body is a pale yellow, shines when I put light on it. I have been keeping the light off while using the meds as well... I don't want him in the dark much longer, he's not happy! Lol


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Bump?


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Are you doing a total blackout (like wrapping the tank in a towel) or just keeping the light off? And have you heated the water higher than normal? RidIch should really be used at about 85. Are you using any salt, as well?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Oh I have to put a towel on it? .-.

This tank doesn't have an adjustable thermometer.... I could switch it out with the one from the other tank, but i don't wanna contaminate the other tank D:


I'm not using AQ salt because it's a pain top get rid of, if I have to I will though. Anything to get him better! it's 1tbsp per gal right?


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Salt goes away with each water change so 2 50% water changes will get rid of it. And if I remember correctly it is 1 tbsp per 5g according to the AQ salt container.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Do you think it's safe to swap heaters?


Edit: wow I just dumped the AQ salt in one corner and my betta just went over to it, fanned his fins out and sat there while the salt was dissolving... he looked relieved, lol. He's much more active now for some reason 


Also, I have to do a 25% water change (about 1gal) before redosing the rid ich, how much salt should I add back with it? The carton says 1/2 a tbsp per gal but that seems a bit much if its only 5tbsb for 5gallons....


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

You really should try and pre-dissolve the salt before putting it in. It'll make a much better solution that way. And yes, you also want a total blackout - and if you aren't raising the temp, you aren't going to kill the little beasties causing the velvet. The heat speeds up the lifecycle so that they grow and die faster, while the treatment is going on, instead of being able to stay in a pre-adult form where the meds aren't as useful.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

White Mage said:


> Do you think it's safe to swap heaters?
> 
> 
> Edit: wow I just dumped the AQ salt in one corner and my betta just went over to it, fanned his fins out and sat there while the salt was dissolving... he looked relieved, lol. He's much more active now for some reason
> ...


Oh please tell my you pre-dissovled the salt in a glass & didn't just dump the salt into the tank? Salt can burn your fish.
The dosage is 1/2 teaspoon per gallon & 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Of course I mixed in tank water before I put it in D: Lol I put it in a cup of tnak water, swished it around for a couple mins, the poured it into a corner by the filter to mix it around more Then he went right over to where I dumped it and sat there while it was mixing/dissolving into the rest of the water.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

OK, the way you said made it sound like you didn't dissolve it first, sorry. Hope it helps him.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Lol I understand, I probably would've thought the same thing too. xD sorry for the confusion.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Velvet takes ages and ages to be eradicated *fully*. Even raising the temperature and treating with medication. I had velvet go through all my tanks and it took at least three or so weeks before my fish recovered and there was no sign of it anywhere. 

I agree that raising the temperature, completely blacking out the tank and using a medication is the best way to go. I found that a medication containing copper was what eventually knocked my velvet on its head. I know copper can be toxic etc. but in my case I had fatalities occurring and I did use the same medication on my fry tanks with no ill effects. 

Also if your medicine contains malachite green I believe this is sensitive to light so it is best to keep tanks that are being treated with it dark anyway.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Wonderful, just wonderful. -.-

If I move the snail, I don't want it to reproduce, or contaminate the other tank... I'm already nervous about the heater I swapped out. I rinsed it under burning water and dried it real good, but I'm still worried.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

If you use any copper medication on the tank, just know that the chances of it being invert-safe again are debatable. This is especially true if it is a glass tank with silicone, because the copper will soak into the silicone.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

When I was researching that particular point, there was some debate on forums as to how much copper actually does soak into the silicone and whether it does leech out later on. 

For me the risk of my fish dying outweighed the possible downsides of using copper. 

Velvet is damn nasty though. A lot nastier than ich in my experience. I hope your fish gets better soon OP. It sucks when they are sick and you have to sit and wait it out.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

LittleBettaFish said:


> When I was researching that particular point, there was some debate on forums as to how much copper actually does soak into the silicone and whether it does leech out later on.
> 
> For me the risk of my fish dying outweighed the possible downsides of using copper.
> 
> Velvet is damn nasty though. A lot nastier than ich in my experience. I hope your fish gets better soon OP. It sucks when they are sick and you have to sit and wait it out.


I agree, better to save the fish ... Just wanted to make sure the OP is aware of the copper issue.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Yep, it was one thing I was concerned about as well as I think the higher toxicity of copper in a lower pH.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

I'll wait out the Rid ich, and if he's not showing any signs of change by next week, I'll have to make the hard decicions. Priorities will have to come into play and unfortunately, Betta>Snail. :c

I just hate having to have my poor betta in darkness for 2 weeks, he's not happy at all :c


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

FYI, Safe Meds for invertebrae, I think Maracyn & ParaGuard might work for Velvet??
http://scapeclub.org/forum/showthread.php?18703-Shrimp-Safe-Medicines-Treatments


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

I believe velvet is fungal and Maracyn is an anti-biotic. =/


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

White Mage said:


> I believe velvet is fungal and Maracyn is an anti-biotic. =/


oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out, now I know I should not use it, thanks.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Ok... nothing is working.

It's getting WORSE. He's covered in it, and some of his scales show signs of him rubbing against things. Time to get nasty... what's a good medicine? I can take out the snail and put him in the QT tank. Is the snail infect too? Or does velvet only affect fish?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm going to get coppersafe, should I remove the snail/would it kill the snail painfully? If I do remove the snail... would it reinfect the tank if I add it back? If the coppersafe won't give the snail a painful death, I might leave him in there to be euthenized... (I feel terrible) 

Would I still need to continue the blackout and aq salt?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Bump =/


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Don't despair. I was sure my fish were all on death's door because they had stopped eating and had ulcerated wounds around their heads where they had scratched themselves raw. But they did eventually recover and it definitely got worse before it got better. 

I would definitely continue with the blackout. I found salt did nothing for velvet and so I stopped using it when I commenced with actual medication. 

I am not sure how your snail will cope. My pond snails seemed unaffected by the copper medication but they could probably survive a nuclear fall-out. 

Is there any way of removing the snail completely to another container during treatment? Or does it have to stay in there?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

I have another tank I could easily put it in, I'm just concerned that by putting the snail in the QT tank and then putting it back would reinfect the one with the betta... I'm not going through this again. 

My question is, do snails carry velvet/are they affected by it? Could I rinse it's shell off under water from the sink? Lol


I think I'll leave the salt in though because hes torn his fins from scratching, and his fins seem to be "wilting" :c


Also, will it be ok to add the coppersafe with some of the Rid Ich still in there?


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Could somebody PLEASE answer my question so I can put the coppersafe in? 


"My question is, do snails carry velvet/are they affected by it? Could I rinse it's shell off under water from the sink?"


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

read the FAQ on this link and decide:
http://www.sentrypetcare.com/askavet/faq.asp?cat=5&class=10


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Didn't say anything about snails =S

BUT it did answer some other questions xD

I know I have to take the snail out because the bottle says to remove invertebrates, but if I take it out WILL IT REINFECT THE TANK? DX That's all I need to know >.<


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

ask Mardel and see if they know


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

It certainly might reinfect the tank - then again, it might not. Velvet is pretty nasty, and tends to get on EVERYTHING so I'd think the chances of having him carrying it on his shell are pretty good. Also, the coppersafe may leave traces in your tank that will harm the snail (or any new snail) that gets introduced.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

=/ I'm not taking the risk of reinfecting... :c


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

tekkguy said:


> It certainly might reinfect the tank - then again, it might not. Velvet is pretty nasty, and tends to get on EVERYTHING so I'd think the chances of having him carrying it on his shell are pretty good. Also, the coppersafe may leave traces in your tank that will harm the snail (or any new snail) that gets introduced.


so snails are carriers of velvet but not infected with it?
then will velvet die off the carrier if it fails to find a host after a number of days/weeks?


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Otterfun said:


> so snails are carriers of velvet but not infected with it?
> then will velvet die off the carrier if it fails to find a host after a number of days/weeks?


I don't know if they can be "infected" or not, but even your decorations can house the parasite. That's why it's recommended to treat in tank and not in quarantine for parasites like this. That way, the decor is treated as well.


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

oh i see, wow then the inverts will need a separate tank while the main tank is treated for velvet, or will they need a separate tank from that point forward? I guess this explains why Coppersafe comes in gallon container....


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Did the heater I swapped out infect the other tank even though I ran it under burning water from the sink and dried it? If there's even the slightest chance, what can I do to prevent an outbreak early on?

THIS VELVET IS GOING DOWN


@Otterfun, I found a small 4oz bottle of coppersafe o:


Also, I;ve been using the same gravel vac for all the tanks, did I infect all of them? >.<

Would AQ salt be a good thing to add to kill it early on just in case? I'd rather be safe than sorry.


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

White Mage said:


> Did the heater I swapped out infect the other tank even though I ran it under burning water from the sink and dried it? If there's even the slightest chance, what can I do to prevent an outbreak early on?
> 
> THIS VELVET IS GOING DOWN
> 
> ...


at this rate, i think you will run out of 4oz fairly soon.
i am treating a potential velvet with one fish while in QT, glad I did not release it into the main tank. I am using a Rubbermaid container and treating with ES (some minor pine coning), Coppersafe, and Maracyn Plus (liquid) in case of secondary infection as per instruction sheet. I see that the QT water is clearing up. it used to be cloudy before I used the concoction above and when I was trying to figure out what it has.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Finally got some good pics! (yay for iPhones)

Sorry about the glare from the flashlight and flash D:


You can see it mostly on his fins, hard to see on his body in the pictures.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Bump


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## 10asartin (Mar 28, 2013)

Actually, I am not so sure that is velvet. My male betta has very similar coloring and when a light is shined on him or a flash from a camera he appears to have a golden metallic sheen. I really believe that is your betta's natural color as well. I have had my betta for over two months and he has always had this metallic coloring.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

You sure? D: I mean it wasn't that much when I got him, and he's been scratching against stuff. :S


Anyone else think so? D; 

I really hope that's it....


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## 10asartin (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm not an expert, but I don't really think it is.










This is a photo of my boy and it appears very similar to yours. Maybe private message one of the more experienced members to be sure. I highly recommend Sakura8, they are very kind and helpful


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

http://www.flippersandfins.net/Images/VelvetEarly.jpg

That's what velvet looks like. It is like your fish has been coated in a fine dust, and I've found the infection is usually worst around the head and gills. 

What are you actually thinking the velvet is on your male? As those pictures make it very difficult to see whether there is velvet present or not.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

10asartin said:


> I'm not an expert, but I don't really think it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like that, but sprinkled all over his tail and some "glitter" on his body... Now Im thinking this was all for nothing. e.e

I'll see if I can get a better picture, he just moves so much D: lol


best one I could get:


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## 10asartin (Mar 28, 2013)

White Mage said:


> It looks like that, but sprinkled all over his tail and some "glitter" on his body


Yes that is the same as mine. The metallic coloring changes depending on the angle of the light. So sometimes it will shine from his tail and other times is will shine on his sides.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

No that I'm comparing the pics.... it probably isn't e.e

Sorry I wasted your time guys! D: I just wish I had had a good camera from the start, we could've avoided this whole mess. >.<


Well, at least all the algae is dead... and I have a sparkly fish! Lol


While I'm here, what should I do about his wilted fins? Just keep using the AQ salt?


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## 10asartin (Mar 28, 2013)

Actually, I would start tapering back the AQ salt as it can harm their kidneys when used over extended periods. Just warm clean water should promote fin health


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

Alright, well I've only used the AQ salt like a week and a couple days so I'll just leave it there until the next water change (Sunday) since it can be used for up to 2 weeks.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Whenever one of my fish has had velvet, I notice that the difference is the velvet (or ich) actually sits over the scales, rather than on the same level as the scales (as natural colouring would). 

Some of my fish have a lot of natural iridescence and will swim around clamped up, so I know it can be hard to correctly diagnose sometimes. Especially if they are showing signs that something is actually causing irritation (you mention him scratching up against things).


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