# "Glued" fins



## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

Hello, I own 1 male (red) and 1 female betta (bluish green). I have had them for a month now. When I got them the female had thorn fins and the male was in good shape so he was aggressive towards her and he built a bubble nest as soon as I put them in the bowl, so I guessed that he wanted to mate but she wasn't ready. I separated them so she could recover by putting her in a jar (filled to the top) and leaving him in the bowl.

*She fully recovered within a week and her fins grew back completely.* She's been fine ever since and she even has the white spot under the pelvic fin, which means that she is ready to mate.

*He, however suffered a disease which I recognized as a simple cold.* His bowl wasn't covered at the time and I've been opening windows so it must have been that the cold draft of air made him ill. I stopped exposing them to any temperature change and always made sure that their water is warm enough. I bought him glass rocks and a plastic plant to make him feel better after I found out that they hate an empty tank. I also bought Dajana Aloe Gel for wound healing and have been mixing a few drops of it when I do the water change. Also, I wanted to buy aquarium salt but the pet shop didn't have any and the guy who works there told me that I can use kitchen salt so I've been putting a pinch of salt when I do the water change. He started getting better from the first treatment. (I did 50% water change every day for the first 4 days of treatment and cleaned the leftover food to keep the tank clean) 10 days later (now) his fins have completely recovered and he is very active and happy (he used to stay in one place all day and barely eat).

I am so happy now and I want to know... *Should I should keep treating him with aloe gel and salt and for how long?* I also feed him live tiny spiders and mosquitoes which I catch around the house (1 per day along with regular food) and he seems to enjoy them. Also, he stopped eating 'the red food' even now when he is doing well. *Why did he stop eating 'the red food'? He eats all the meal-worms I give him.* He didn't build a bubble nest since he got ill and I keep the female's jar so close to his bowl that it is touching it so they could see eachother. *Why isn't he building bubble nests? Does he need more time to fully recover to do this?*

Other than this, they are well. *The picture below is him (down: when he was well, and up: when he got ill).* He looks great now.











*Housing*
I have a 1 gallon fish bowl with no thermometer nor a filter. The bowl is not heated. I started covering it a while ago. Green glass "rocks" at the bottom and one green plastic plant in the bowl. *The picture below was taken as soon as I got them, I just wanted to show you that they do have enough space, since I see a lot of hateful comments concerning the tank size.*










*Food*
I feed them dried meal-worms (a pinch a day) and red cubes of some sort. *The picture below was taken by me.* The lady at the fish store told me to give them just a couple every day.










*Maintenance*
I change the water every 4 days and I usually do an 80% water change. I use stale tap water (I fill a large pot with tap water and use it after 2-3 days). I have never checked any water values because my bettas were always fine with it.

I have treated him well, and this may be a good advice for someone who was the same problem with their betta but I need advice myself.
*I tried to provide all the details you need to answer my questions. Thanks for reading!*


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

1.NEVER USE KITCHEN SALT. IT CONTAINS IODINE THAT CAN KILL THEM. 2.I suggest you get something besides a bowl so you can get a heater in it, I have a one gallon tetra tank which I have a heater in and it takes about the same amount of room as a bowl. 3. Don't even attempt to breed since by your post I can conclude you have no idea what you are doing. I am not trying to be mean, just being blunt and not sugarcoating it


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

xShainax said:


> 1.NEVER USE KITCHEN SALT. IT CONTAINS IODINE THAT CAN KILL THEM. 2.I suggest you get something besides a bowl so you can get a heater in it, I have a one gallon tetra tank which I have a heater in and it takes about the same amount of room as a bowl. 3. Don't even attempt to breed since by your post I can conclude you have no idea what you are doing. I am not trying to be mean, just being blunt and not sugarcoating it


Thanks for the quick response, but you haven't really answered my questions... The salt is there to help the wounds heal, it is just a small pinch and amount that small can not kill them... I don't need the heater as they are doing fine, I had one problem because I left the windows open for too long but now I know better. I prefer a bowl. I do not intent to breed them until I know enough about it, but I will when they and myself are ready.


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## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

Aquarium salt is recommended for a Max of 14 days. Table salt is only recommended if it does not contain iodine and usually for less time than aquarium salt. Even small amounts of iodine can poison a fish, so if your fish is better, I would stop the treatment.
Bettas are tropical fish and need warm water to thrive (not survive, big difference). Baby Betta fry survive best in water above 82°, most fry will not live for long at temperatures below that. They are also extremely sensitive to changes in water parameters and need to have extremely clean water.


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## LuckyBlue (Mar 26, 2012)

That is EXACTLY what my LuckyBlue's fins look like!!!!! (the stuck picture)


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

First off, you never put a female betta and a male betta in a *bowl* with no places for the female to hide, they could have killed each other. Although, the thai method does this, the breeders are usually very experienced and have properly conditioned the pair. 
All females have the white spot whether they are or are not ready to "mate". 
You should stop with the salt treatment. I normally don't use a heater during summer days since it get's VERY hot where I live, but I do use one during the winter and at night. 
Kitchen salt is different than AQ salt. It has usually been bleached and contains iodine.
Also, your bettas should have a staple food. Such as high quality pellets, meal worms are usually fattening and are not always good for you bettas. They should be a treat, like bloodworms.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

sainthogan said:


> Aquarium salt is recommended for a Max of 14 days. Table salt is only recommended if it does not contain iodine and usually for less time than aquarium salt. Even small amounts of iodine can poison a fish, so if your fish is better, I would stop the treatment.
> Bettas are tropical fish and need warm water to thrive (not survive, big difference). Baby Betta fry survive best in water above 82°, most fry will not live for long at temperatures below that. They are also extremely sensitive to changes in water parameters and need to have extremely clean water.


Thanks for this great suggestion! I am happy if the salt was the thing that helped along with Aloe Gel. I really didn't put much, just a tiny pinch of it. He looks completely normal now so I will not put salt anymore.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> First off, you never put a female betta and a male betta in a *bowl* with no places for the female to hide, they could have killed each other. Although, the thai method does this, the breeders are usually very experienced and have properly conditioned the pair.
> All females have the white spot whether they are or are not ready to "mate".
> You should stop with the salt treatment. I normally don't use a heater during summer days since it get's VERY hot where I live, but I do use one during the winter and at night.
> Kitchen salt is different than AQ salt. It has usually been bleached and contains iodine.
> Also, your bettas should have a staple food. Such as high quality pellets, meal worms are usually fattening and are not always good for you bettas. They should be a treat, like bloodworms.


The picture of the bowl was taken as soon as I put them in after I got them. A day or so after that I divided them because the male was biting on the female's fins. She recovered very fast and grew her fins back completely! I have had no troubles with her. I have added green rock shaped marbles at the bottom and a plastic plant so the bowl is now ready to bring back the female since there are hiding places. It just seems like a good idea to keep them apart still, until I make sure that he is completely healthy. As for the food, I will see if I can get something other than meal worms, I am almost done with the first pack (the same size as the 'red food' on the picture I provided), it lasted a month for the two of them. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

LuckyBlue said:


> That is EXACTLY what my LuckyBlue's fins look like!!!!! (the stuck picture)


I know, I commented on your thread about your LuckyBlue's clamped fins. I am the one whose picture didn't come through. I posted it again though, on your thread but I see that you've already seen it now.


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

That's good.  Wait... are you planning on housing the female and the male together?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

You breeding Bettas Soady?


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> That's good.  Wait... are you planning on housing the female and the male together?


Yes, I do plan to keep them in the same bowl. I separated them at first because my bowl was empty (no decorations, places to hide...) and the female's condition was bad because of the pet store conditions so she got her tail nipped by the male. She recovered fast and I tried putting it back with the male but he didn't do so well so she was flaring at him. Needles to say I separated them again until he gets better... Which is now. I will give him more time on his own until I get everything I need in case they decide to mate. I can't help but notice that you don't like the idea of them being together. Why? There are plenty of places for her to hide around the plant (it's a plastic plant that is placed at the center of the bowl and goes all the way to just under the surface of the water). I don't think it will be a problem, though, since when they've been together he kept making bubble nests and didn't really hurt her (she was in a really poor condition then, I think she is bigger than the male now). Any advice on how I should re-introduce them would be nice.  His bowl is right next to her jar so they can see each other all day (should I separate them for a while before I put them back together?). They are really happy, active and they eat well. I kinda trained them to recognize the food container opening and I always spin the cover plate like a coin before I feed them. They go crazy! Like a dog jumping left and right waiting to throw him the ball.  The male likes to follow my finger around the bowl. I will write about how they are doing once I put them back together, in a week or two maybe...


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

aokashi said:


> You breeding Bettas Soady?


I will once I am ready and have everything I need...


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

These are the latest pictures I took showing you how my male betta is healing and also showing you my female betta which is completely healthy.










I also took a photo of their "natural habitat". The jar is a temporary solution but she doesn't seem to mind at all. I plan on keeping them together.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

ok, have fun


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

Where, may I ask, did you get the information on breeding bettas and keeping them together?


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## Phaydra (Nov 20, 2012)

The reason this is a bad idea is because males and females are aggressive with each other. Only females can be housed together and only some of them at that. You are going to stress both Bettas and if by some miracle one doesn't kill the other, it will leave them weak to sickness. If the bowl in your picture is the planned housing that is not adequate for 2 bettas. I strongly recommend you rethink your housing plan. If you still want to house them in the same tank get a 5 gallon at the least and divide it. A 10 gallon cycled would be preferable. I also strongly recommend you rethink breeding till you have the all the equipment you need and more experience with Bettas in general.

Excuse me if I come off a bit brash but this is a disaster that can be prevented if you are willing to take advice from the Betta lovers this site contains.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> Where, may I ask, did you get the information on breeding bettas and keeping them together?


I watched many breeding videos and read tons of breeding advices on the Internet. I have also read a lot about keeping a female and a male betta together and opinions vary and so do the bettas. Some get along and some don't. I certainly won't keep them together if they fight. In that case, I'll get another bowl and keep them next to each other. I will post results on how it went once I do it.


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

I agree with Phaydra it's a bad idea, even for breeding. That is not an adequate tank. Have you even been conditioning?


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

Phaydra said:


> The reason this is a bad idea is because males and females are aggressive with each other. Only females can be housed together and only some of them at that. You are going to stress both Bettas and if by some miracle one doesn't kill the other, it will leave them weak to sickness. If the bowl in your picture is the planned housing that is not adequate for 2 bettas. I strongly recommend you rethink your housing plan. If you still want to house them in the same tank get a 5 gallon at the least and divide it. A 10 gallon cycled would be preferable. I also strongly recommend you rethink breeding till you have the all the equipment you need and more experience with Bettas in general.
> 
> Excuse me if I come off a bit brash but this is a disaster that can be prevented if you are willing to take advice from the Betta lovers this site contains.


I keep repeating that I plan to breed them once I am ready and have everything I need. I will try to put them together once my male fully recovers from clamped fins. I will observe their behavior and separate them if they don't get along, I wouldn't do anything that would hurt them. From what I've seen so far, he usually swims at the side of the bowl where my female betta is and he doesn't flare at all, he just seems anxious to be with her. I do not intent to keep them together at any cost, but I will give it a try. Thank you for your concern but do not worry, I won't let them hurt each other.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> I agree with Phaydra it's a bad idea, even for breeding. That is not an adequate tank. Have you even been conditioning?


I don't use any water conditioner. I use tap water which I let stand in for 2-3 days before I actually use it. I don't have a heater nor anything similar. They are fine. Happy, eating, active... I think you give too much credit to all the equipment. I see a lot of people having troubles with their bettas under perfect conditions (huge tanks, heaters, etc.) and my only problem was leaving my windows open for too long once (when my male got clamped fins). While they were together they would usually be at the opposite side of the bowl, and whenever one of them would slowly come close to the other they didn't fight, just moved along. Also, he was building bubble nests then while he hasn't made a single bubble nest since I divided them.


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

You look up conditioning for breeding, because that is the wrong type.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

DoctorWhoLuver said:


> You look up conditioning for breeding, because that is the wrong type.


Most people recommend only to keep their water clean and feed them nutritious food. What exactly is the wrong type? The fact that I'm not putting all kinds of water conditioners? Why would I if everything is fine?


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

Dear Soady, please listen to the advice above, though they come as blunt and can sometimes seem rude, they mean well.

As a person who doesn't have much of a regular budget, listen to what I have to say.

*The min. space for a betta is arguable between 1-2 gallons*, but even that isn't much, Veiltails seem to have less trouble in those containers as they have less finnage than let's say the fancy halfmoon betta.

*But it's only enough space for a single betta and not two*, it's hardly enough room for 1 betta and a snail/shrimp. They live in their toilets, therefore they need that amount of space to poop and for the water to remain clean.

It is not recommended at all to house two bettas in 1 gallon even if they are a different sex because it is said that females can end up shredding up the male or viceversa, like it happened to you, even reputable breeders pull out their females after the breeding has been done and do not house them together. Regardless the amount of hiding spaces, which is limited in a 1 gallon, one of them will get nipped.

Most people who wish to have more than 1 betta in the same tank have at least +10 gallon heavily planted tanks. Or dividers in a +5 gallon tank. And then the getting along part is all about luck and your betta's personality

None of which I recommend unless you gain a bit more experience on betta care, because it has many cons like spreading of diseases--

*Water conditioner is needed*. There is chlorine in our tap water, it doesn't matter how long you let it sit, there's still chemicals there and it won't dissapate like magic. Aging water with conditioner is the right way to do this, you have to think that water goes under a treatment to make it human consumable, and we do not want fish swimming in our potable water or algae growing in our pipes, therefore all the chemicals they put in. That it doesn't harm us doesn't mean it won't harm the fish because in the natural world, chlorine is not present in water

If you care for your bettas as I can see you are trying to help them, please get Aquarium salt, order it online or find another store if possible, and i'm not sure if the aloe gel is a good idea, but you can buy API stress coat, which is a rather cheap conditioner containing aloe vera in it made especially for fish.

Usually when getting a betta fish it's recommended to have a first aid kit to fight against the common betta diseases:

- Aquarium salt
- Epsom salt
- Antiparasitic medicine
- Anti fungal medicine
- Anti bacterial medicine

*As for a thermometre and heater, a thermometre is a must*, temperature fluctuations is what makes a betta get sick, and this little device helps you watch for them, they cost 1$-3$?? 3 euro in my case, surely you can spare that amount of money. 

The heater can be excluded if your house is hot enough and not placed near windows or drafty areas. But mind that bettas can only tolerate stable temperatures between 75-82F.

*Water changes in a 1 gallon must be performed bi-weekly with 50% and 100% changes*, the 100% is necessary to eliminate all the harmful ammonia and waste properly that accumulates fast in a small container.

Also don't believe the employees or shop owners as much, sometimes they know less or have been misinformed about the care of an animal, thus why sometimes we see sick pets in display, especially bettas.

And if you intend to breed you need a 10+gallon with tannined water and a HEATER is a must, adults are durable but fry are very delicate creatures, also you have to be ready to house over 100 baby bettas, and have small live foods like baby brine shrimp as they cannot eat dehydrated food.

Therefore I think you should hold off breeding until you keep the bettas a while longer, and learn from the experience and get the proper equipment needed. You also have to think what do you intend to do with over 100 betta fry afterwards. When people buy bettas from breeders, they buy it for genetics mainly.

*As for your problem:*

It looks to me that your betta is having fin melt, which is another type or Fin rot, which is more agressive, it could be caused by stress, bad water conditions, and such.

First thing you should know that it is caused by bacteria, so using Medicine is the best thing to do, using tri-sulfa or tetracycline as quickly as possible. Apparently potassium permanganate baths work well, but can be stressful on the fish and MUST be performed perfectly and raising the temperature to perhaps 78F. (But you would need a thermometre and heater for that). Make sure that the female isn't showing similar symptoms as I'm sure you are probably sharing nets and such which can get the other female infected as well, especially since you said her fins were injured.


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## Bettanewbie60 (Jun 26, 2012)

asukabetta said:


> Dear Soady, please listen to the advice above, though they come as blunt and can sometimes seem rude, they mean well.
> 
> As a person who doesn't have much of a regular budget, listen to what I have to say.
> 
> ...


+++1^


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## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

Females will eat the young and possibly kill the male to do so, or the male will kill her to keep her from eating them. Please keep this in mind.


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

Bettanewbie60 said:


> +++1^


thanks  I just editted some parts because I forgot to mention the importance of water conditioner, so Soady please read the original post and not the quote


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

i dont think shes gonna listen~


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

aokashi said:


> i dont think shes gonna listen~


I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, I hope she/he does, betta's are amazing creatures, and those bettas looked great it would be a shame...


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

asukabetta said:


> Dear Soady, please listen to the advice above, though they come as blunt and can sometimes seem rude, they mean well.
> 
> As a person who doesn't have much of a regular budget, listen to what I have to say.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to make this post. 

I agree that I should hold off the breeding until I have enough experience and the proper equipment. I will most likely buy another 1-2 gallon fish bowl and keep them separated. 

Now, I know the bowl is only 1 gallon so I do 50% water changes every second day (without removing the betta from the bowl) and 100% water change at the end of the week. I have read that bettas don't produce a lot of waste so I am certain that it can't bother them with the water changes I do.

As for the Aloe Gel, it is called Dajana Aloe Gel and it is only available in Europe and it's especially for betta fishes. As soon as I applied it for the first time my male betta started getting better and better and he had now almost completely recovered.










Also, I said that my female's fins were injured when I first got it. It is completely healthy now and her fins grew back nicely as you can see on the picture I posted earlier today.

Yeah, the guy at the pet store told me that I could use kitchen salt, so I did until someone here told me that it is bad because of the Iodine. Anyway, I didn't put much at all, just a tiny pinch....

You are right about fin melt! I thought, up until this moment that it was clamped fins and that he got them by catching a cold. I must have been very lucky because I cured it in 10 days with this Aloe Gel... I will definitely put an effort to find AQ salt! Thanks for the great advice!

I will try to obtain everything I can for my first-aid kit but I doubt that I will find exactly the same products people recommend. I will probably end up with different brands of the same product.

Thanks for the great advice!


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

Since you live in europe like me, get API medicine, they are great.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

I do want to listen, that's why I came to this forum in the first place! I'll get a water testing kit, a thermometer and AQ salt as soon as I can. Depending on the results of water testing I'll get appropriate conditioners. I love my bettas and really care about them so don't think that I would hurt them in any way. Thank you guys for worrying so much.  

By the way, I am a 20 year old male, I live in a small 37 square meters apartment with one female and my air is filtered with cigarette smoke. I change my air... sometimes, by opening a window. I hardly eat any fruit and don't eat very healthy in general. I have a few heaters at my place which helps me get through cold winter nights. I don't have many decorations which sometimes makes me depressed. A joke or two wouldn't hurt after all the serious betta talk.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

nice 
well it IS serious XD
i mean you are talking about bring about 200 fish into this world... which means

you will need to prepare atleast 50 jars.
and the minimum a 5 gallon tank with lots of plants...
you will need to culture live foods for the babies
the least of your concern in all this would be heating the room up to atleat 82F
you will probably also need to cull(kill) some fry
you will need to do daily water changes for every fis you Jar...
then you will need to find homes for all these fish...

isnt that serious? lol 

oh and I have a friend in serbia XD i think serbians are cool


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

Yeah, it is serious work. This is my favorite "how to breed bettas" video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7USyUC24xVw
I will probably get everything I need for breeding and breed them after winter so I would take my time and gain more experience with bettas. For now, I will concentrate on them.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

My male is recovering nicely, but... *Is this normal?*










The photo was taken at 01:00 AM and I think he was sleeping. He stands perfectly still like that. It just looked weird so that's why I ask...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

fish do sleep  if he's still like that after the lights come on, I'd worry. but if he'a normal, he's just sleeping XD


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

aokashi said:


> fish do sleep  if he's still like that after the lights come on, I'd worry. but if he'a normal, he's just sleeping XD


Yeah, he is normal and healthy, eating, active etc. He usually sleeps on a leaf of the plastic plant near the surface. I'm glad he accepted the plant nicely. I'm gonna go and buy the tap water conditioner now.  Thanks for replying, I know it had nothing to do with my original thread but I didn't want to open a new one... I kinda made this thread about my bettas in general. xD


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

*To anyone who followed my case...*

Hey, people, I am back with good news. I got a new home for my bettas! Check it out, I made a new thread where I will continue posting as in a journal. *Here's the link:*

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=1391657#post1391657

Thank you all!


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