# Betta throwing up



## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Here I am AGAIN posting about a problem one of my bettas has. My girl, Petunia, has had swim bladder issues since the first time I gave her a blood worm, about a few weeks after I got her. I have tried epsom salt baths and peas and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, it just takes time and goes away on it's own, so I fast her often. When I say fast, I don't feed her for maybe 1 day or two at most.. and I have noticed instead of her pooping, she throws up. She threw up the other night and was floating so I fed her only one pellet the next day, then fasted her the day after, then the night after that fed her half a pea to clear her system and she was fine by the next morning (two days ago) so I gave her NLS pellets. I feed her 3 pellets a day max, and right before I left to work today i noticed stuff floating at the top and it was things she threw up! it was half the pea (in pieces because I divide it) and a few pellets. I am thinking she has SBD because she cant poop! Now to get it out of her system her body just throws it up, but she also doesn't do much chewing so maybe its too hard for her to digest, I don't know. I really feel She just can't poop and I'm really worried about her. 

I have been having so much bad luck with my fishies lately. I tried to research this but all I can find is spitting out food right after they eat but this happened two days later!!! ((( I feel like I'm not taking care of my bettas right but I really don't know what I'm doing wrong


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

If the food isnt getting through her GIT it means she has a blockage somewhere along the line. There are many causes and problems depending on exactly where in her gut the blockage is. The intestine is the closest organ to the swim bladder directly linked to the GIT so we can assume it is about there. 

If this is because of the SBD swelling it closed then that needs to be the starting point. Those disorders are caused by bacterial infections which swell the organ and in this case may be causing an internal blockage.

My personal recommendation is to start using an antibiotic to attempt to wipe out the infection at its source and so free the GIT up to start working again. I personally use Tetracycline but I understand the US has more options. many speak highly of Kanaplex or the maracyne types of antibiotic.
Possibly a US keeper can chime in for which option of the set would be best for you.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Even if we do have more options here maybe the one you use still works best. Can I assume it is bacteria or a blockage before I start using the medicine? I know some medication is harmful to the fish and only to be used if its for sure the disease or disorder, her tummy is white underneath


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Some medicine can be harmful yes and keep in mind antibiotics are a tricky thing to mess with, however swim bladder and intestinal issues are a little bit of a race. if a blockage is allowed to build pressure in an animal it can twist the intestines (dogs for instance are prone to twisted stomachs)

The final call for medicating is of course always yours, keep an eye on your fishy friend for signs of distress, especially during or not long after feeding for signs of an upset stomach. Since she isnt floating yet its a clear sign it is still in the gut itself and how you proceed is your call.

Possibly if you want to eliminate all possibilities first you can try an antiparasitic which is far gentler and causes less long term effects than an antibiotic? if there is one in the gut that is stuck somewhere it may cause a backlog


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

She is actually floating, okay I will try an anti parasitic. Any suggestions of what works best from your experience? I wish she would poop because then I would definitely be able to tell! There's been times before though where she will be bloated and do a HUGE poop, I just don't know how to get it out. and It almost seems as if she likes floating because she takes big gulps of air and it makes it even worse!


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I dont have access to the same brands as you because I live in another country, but many of the US keepers here tell me API general cure has an antiparasitic or a brand known as jungle has a medication for internal parasites.

Bettas gulp air in order to breathe so I do not believe that it is causing the bloat, bettas have a labrynth organ they store air in to help them breathe so they surface with clockwork regularity to grab another breath.

If you dont begin seeing improvements after the parasite meds we can try other alternatives, I however hope this does the trick.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I actually have API general cure on hand, and I meant the gulping because I know thats how they put air into their swim bladder to control their buoyancy, it seems like shes doing something like that


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)




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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

of course they are all sideways


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

My shes a lovely little thing! 
The swelling isnt too bad at all just yet so that is good news indeed. I have my fingers crossed the anti parasitic works, I'll be watching the thread carefully


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you Taeanna! It actually is a little worse in person than the pictures, but just a little. Not nearly as bad as dropsy or something like that though, thankfully

For the API General Cure, I thought it was just for external parasites mainly? I read somewhere about jungle's anti-parasitic pellet, would something like this be better? It's weird because my other betta, Mr. Fish, died because he stopped eating (the other week) he started to spit food out, but she just takes longer to throw up the food, I'm wondering if it's related... never found out what was really wrong with him, and he ended his last few days with dropsy  Petunia is so filled with excitement and seem so healthy aside from this! Not at all lethargic and I know she misses swimming all around the tank rather than just the top, she loves to explore her tank all the time! Her log, leaves, rocks, never gets sick of it!! But now she stays inbetween the tank and thermometer to avoid floating on the side D: poor little girl! If the API gen cure will help her internal system I will do that just because it might take a little longer to get my hands on the jungle pellets, I've never seen that brand in person. BUT if that's better, it will be worth the wait I'm sure


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Okay I just read it can treat for tapeworm but also read a white string will be hanging from her toosh which she doesnt have, and of course treats the external parasites and lastly a wasting disease but that doesnt show a swollen belly... hm..:question:


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

The general cures have a combo of different soft medications, so you don't have to have every symptom or disease on the bottle when using a general. It is just easier than having a bottle for every chemical compound in the hopes of getting lucky and finding the one that works for the fishy.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Just wanted to add here since sourjacks and I have been PM'ing about this issue.

I agree with the blockage part of it and the resulting Swim bladder issue, it's not SBD but just an issue caused from another issue. SBD is something a little more serious pertaining to bacteria infections in the swim bladder organ. It is still possible she may have a bacterial infection but my guesses are that it's just from the blockage that is pressing against the swim bladder organ, causing her to float a little.

Also, just wanted to note that when I was raising my PetCo babies, one of them went through stages of floating and then not floating. At first when he didn't eat he would float and when he did eat he could get around a little better. Then a month or so later it flip flopped to where when he _did_ eat he would float and when he didn't he was fine. Just saying that it is possible that it is just a phase and she could get over it. Do I remember correctly that she is a PetCo baby? sorry if you said that earlier, I only really skimmed the thread >.<

I don't believe this is internal parasites, she would still continue to be pooing for the most part; possibly less frequently but she would still be going. It would then be white and stringy as has been mentioned previously. Also her bloat would be much worse. In fact to me, she doesn't look like she has any bloat at all honestly, just looks a little eggy really.

So, just thinking out loud now, did you say you have not seen her poop lately or am I mixing up threads again? If I am guessing right here, you haven't seen her poop and she's been doing the 'vomiting' thing a few days after you feed her. It is possible, since the foods you feed her are fairly digestible, that her poop is actually like 80%-ish not solid. Fish excrete ammonia (waste) from their gills more than they release the solids, IF the foods you feed are highly digestible, you won't even see the solids because it will all become that 'liquid' ammonia. It's not exactly like it but you can think of it as urine that comes out of the gills, you won't see it and it's not exactly liquid I don't believe but it is possible.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

So what do I do to cease the blockage?
I don't think she was a BABY but she was very young when I got her, she didn't have any blue on her and now she is magenta and blue/green! Has also grown too

The reason why I don't think it's a phase is because it's been going on for at LEAST four months now and it happens so much!! 
Correct, I haven't seen her poop for at least a week and a half. She would poop seconds after being in a cup while changing her water, that would always do the trick but now she doesnt, she just floats in the cup, and I have gotten her to flare with a mirror.. still nothing. They are pretty solid actually, I don;t think her body is even digesting it, she is just releasing it a few days later through her mouth or something, because everything is still the same size and I can tell exactly what it is, they are just a bit yellow and a lot more slimey, with a yellow liquid floating around it/stuck to it. Would it be safe to go ahead and start treating with the gen cure by API?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

For one thing what she gets through her system is likely small. I recommend using frozen mysis shrimp or daphnia because hopefully they are soft enough yet nutritious enough to get through her system and release nutrients.

If you use the cure it is your personal call. It will rule out several smaller problems and allow us to move on to looking for more serious concerns. general cure also has few aftereffects compared to other meds like antibiotics so the decision to medicate isnt as monumental


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Look at this!!! See!!!!!!


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I am sorry? If a picture was submitted I am afraid I cannot see it.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Oops the picture didnt attach last time


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

A better picture look how big! It's hanging from a string. I haven't added any medication yet


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

she is still swollen, and I use that word because its like her whole body (up to her but) is swollen, almost like a balloon, like you can see through it a little.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

That is an excellent news! The color is also beige which is another good sign- no parasite signs here!

I am smiling so hard right now


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, that is her poop coming from her anus right there. Not parasitic at all which is fantastic news! She is not swollen, she looks like a normal female Betta! Often they become eggy (their ovaries fill with eggs when they are ready to mate. This does NOT mean you should though!!!!) when they want to mate or they are stimulated in some way. Sometimes they mistake their reflection as a male lol, they are silly fish!

But her ovaries are located in a cone like shape behind her stomach which is right above where her anus is, where the poop is coming out of. So the cone ovaries are behind the circular stomach which will make her appear bloated but she's really not! This is all very normal which is just great news all around since you don't have to medicate her or anything! Just keep her in clean water ^_^


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Aw you both are so sweet  but she is still floating and in an S shape, why is this?? 
 she misses exploring her tank! Plus she still 'spits up' her food a few days later. She does look like swollen though you can't tell in the picture but face on she is bigger than normal and it's where she is floating. It's so frustrating I don't know why she is floating! Plus, her poop did have a clearish color string hanging from her butt which is why it appears to be floating beneath her in the picture.. With a parasite or worm, do they not poop at all?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

With parasites, they will continue to poop but it will be completely white and stringy. it is normal for them to have some string to their poop. 

Can you get a video of her perhaps and upload it youtube and then here or something? That would help. How old is she again?


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

You are right, they are super silly fish! So good news, petunia decided to pass another poop and isn't floating. I Just finally changed her water so I think it is the clean water. But I took more pictures and videos for you, and luckily I got a video of her yesterday when she did the huge poop!


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I have actually been feeding her the NLS grow, in fact I have been feeding it to everyone!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Awesome! And how old was she again roughly? Or how long have you had her?


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I have had her for about 5 mons


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

And was she a PetCo baby or a regular female?


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I really can't remember if i bought her as a regular female or a baby but either way she was really young because she didn't have much color when I got her and she has grown so much since then! So I definitely got her young


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

A little update, I have been feeding petunia the NLS grow pellet food and she hasn't been floating NEARLY as bad! Barely at all actually! *knock on wood*


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well that's good, sorry I didn't reply earlier. Are you sure she was floating and not just sitting at the top? That would be different. If she were floating then she would also have issues swimming downward as well, if she didn't then it could be something else.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes she was on the top on her side because she couldn't stay balance and it would take a lot if energy to swim down and when she did, she was completely vertical


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm glad to see her getting better! Slow but steady is great as far as I am concerned!

A note for the future though is because she contracted this while she was young she may likely spend the rest of her life with a predisposition for stomach upsets. She may require more controlled feeding and fasting days than other fishies. As long as you are aware of that and adjust however I have my fingers crossed everything will continue to go well.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you Taeanna, I figured thats what was going on... she's been doing a lot better with floating I do really think the NLS is playing a huge role in this, her poops are just so big! Hope this is normal hahaha. Hopefully french fry (one of the babies) doesn't have this problem because she was spitting up food for a while and was floating for a few days and she (or he) is just a baby!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, babies tend (well PetCo ones from my experience) to go through two stages where they will float when they haven't eaten and will swim fine when they have eaten and change to they will be swimming fine while having eaten and then will float when they do eat. I find the stages only last a week or so but yes, it does seem to be normal for the fry to go through those stages. Not all of the babies I've seen go through this, some are lucky enough while others not so much but it shouldn't effect them in the long run


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks! It did last just a week and they're both doing fine  excited to see what they look like in a few months


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