# Antibiotic Resistant Fin Rot



## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Okay, I'm at my wits end. I have been fighting slow moving fin rot since last spring. I first noticed a small purple iridescent line on my fishes tail last spring. I posted on here a couple times asking if anyone knew what it was, I did not get any responses. 









I decided to up my water changes and watch it carefully. The line slowly worked it's way up his tail, and reached his body. At that point I decided to try General Cure. A treatment of General Cure, and nothing improved. I kept up with the water changes, and started trying to figure out what it could be. Then it started to spread into a triangle shape (for some reason the forum is not letting me post 2 pictures I'll post this next).

When it began to spread out I tried a round of Furan 2. At this point only a small bit of the fin was starting to deteriorate (it was right in the center at the starting point of the line), but about 50% of it had turned black starting from the base of the tail (at the body) and all the way down to the tip in a triangle shape. 

The Furan 2 did not work. I tried another round of it, and again no progress. 

I was out of Kanaplex so I ordered some, and decided to try Kanaplex. Once the Kanaplex arrived I started to treat with Kanaplex in an entirely new tank. All decorations were new and cleaned, the tank itself was an empty one I had on hand that I had bleached and sat for months empty. Two rounds of Kanaplex later, and nothing. The deterioration of the tail was worse and by now the entire tail was black. 

I again went back to trying to research what this was. I have yet to figure it out. I decided I would treat with Triple Sulfa, 2 rounds later again no improvement. I am now at a loss. I am debating going and getting some Tetracycline, but I'm not sure if it'll do any good. If Triple Sulfa and Kanaplex couldn't treat this, I don't know what will. 

It has now spread to his anal fin, which is turning red and tattered. 

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? New Life Spectrum 
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once daily, fast once or twice a week. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Twice weekly 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Stress Coat + 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0
Nitrite: (don't have my full test kit, I keep forgetting it at my boyfriends)
Nitrate: (see above answer) 
pHsee above) 
Hardness: Unknown 
Alkalinity: Unknown 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Fin rot
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He's starting to have trouble swimming 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Last spring 
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? General Cure, Furan 2, Kanaplex and Triple Sulfa 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? He is a tail biter
How old is your fish (approximately)? 2-3 yrs.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

It is much worse than this now. Now it is just a small stump of black.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I can't really see much in the photos - but I know that you know how to identify fin rot.... Did any of these medications have any effect at all?

Here's a summary of what you've tried:

API General Cure is mainly known for being antiparasitical, but metronidazole is also effective against anaerobic bacteria.

Furan 2 (nitrofuran class) treats aerobic gram negative bacterial infections.

Kanaplex and Triple Sulfa are both broad spectrum antibiotics.

Kanaplex is an aminoglycoside, and works by preventing bacteria from synthesizing the proteins required for growth.

API Triple Sulfa contains sulfathiazole, sulfamethazine and sulfacetamide. These are sulfonamides, and work by inhibiting folate synthesis. (Folates are required to synthesize DNA and RNA.) 

As for what you can try next, you mentioned tetracycline:

Minocycline and tetracycline are both members of the Tetracycline class. They treat gram positive infections by inhibiting protein synthesis.

You could also consider Maracyn Plus. It combines trimethoprim and sulfadimidine. Trimethoprim has a slightly different mode of action than the sulfa drugs. 

Another option is ampicillin or amoxicillin. These are in the penicillin class. They're effective against streptococcal infections. Unfortunately, there's a lot of resistance to them.

Here's a good list of antibiotics. I'm not sure what else is available for aquariums: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antibiotics


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I can't really see much in the photos - but I know that you know how to identify fin rot.... Did any of these medications have any effect at all?
> 
> Here's a summary of what you've tried:
> 
> ...


LBF: What would you try? You know more about antibiotics than I do. 

To be honest, I don't not know with certainty this is fin rot. It is a "best guess" because I've never seen anything like this before. It all started out with a small purple line, and then spread very slowly over the past 10-11 months. The flesh turns black months before it deteriorates.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You could try Maracyn 1 and 2 together.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> You could try Maracyn 1 and 2 together.



I had thought about that. I have both, and mixed a batch last night. Then I decided to post here and see what people though. 

LBF: I realized I didn't answer your question. None of the antibiotics made a dent in it. It's slow, but it just keeps going.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I saw this on another person's thread, it has all the hallmarks of the mycobacterium disease...all except for the speed.

That means this is likely an acid-fast gram positive and lives primarily on ammonia and nitrates...which is juuust great because those are so easy to keep out of a tank.

You may get some answers if you contact the researchers that were asking for samples some months before, if its what I hope it isnt, theres not really anything on the market that is effective


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

_(Note: To me, this doesn't sound like a Mycobacterial infection or the 'mystery graphite disease' described in Sakura's thread. That said, the only way to know for sure would be via laboratory analysis of the fish or its organs....)_

NeptunesMom,

Is this an OPEN wound? For example, on "regular fin rot," the infected edges of the fin are exposed. But on the first photo, it looks to me like the discoloration is within the fin tissue itself.

If it's not open now, could it have been, at ANY point in time? For example, could there have been some minor fin rot at any time?

Here's why I ask:

Fish produce a slime coat. This protects them, but also makes it difficult for medications to penetrate and be effective. So if there is an infection underneath the slime coat, or within the tissue itself, medications may not be able to reach it easily.

If this is an open bacterial infection, that I would have expected at least one of those antibiotics to have had an effect. (Even a small effect.) Since they didn't, there are a few possibilities:
(1) The bacteria could be resistant to the more common antibiotics.
(2) The antibiotics aren't able to reach the bacteria. (Which might occur if it's in the internal tissue or underneath the slime coat.)
(3) It's not a bacterial infection. 

Here's a hypothetical situation: What if there was a small injury or wound on him, and some bacteria entered it. The outside portion of the wound healed, but some bacteria managed to remain in the underlying tissue. Over time, perhaps some of the bacteria managed to survive, and spread slowly. (This can occur in people, so why not fish?)

*Aeromonas* and *Vibrio* are both anaerobic gram-negative bacteria often found in aquariums. Aeromonas is more common in fresh-water conditions. It can also cause septicemia, and/or red streaks which then lead to necrosis of the infected tissue. To me, this sounds like what your guy may have.

Do you have a way to oxygenate the water? If so, I would try doing this. If the cause is an anaerobic bacteria, then oxygenation would cause slow its growth.

Do you have any Methylene Blue? Methylene blue stains infected tissue, slowing bacterial growth. It also helps with oxygenation of the tissue. 

I would start by swabbing the infected area with a methylene blue solution. Then, add the appropriate amount of methylene blue to the water for a bath. (Potassium pernanganate can be used as an alternative to methylene blue.)

Do you know the pH in the tank? Some antibiotics work better at lower or higher pH. So if you can tell us that, it may help determine which antibiotics will be more effective. I'm thinking that after oxygenating the water and doing some swabs/baths in methylene blue (or potassium permanganate), then a combination of nitrofurazone and Kanaplex may something to think about, if the pH is on the lower end. (The furan meds work best at low pH.)


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> _(Note: To me, this doesn't sound like a Mycobacterial infection or the 'mystery graphite disease' described in Sakura's thread. That said, the only way to know for sure would be via laboratory analysis of the fish or its organs....)_
> 
> NeptunesMom,
> 
> ...


It does look like fin rot now, but it did not start looking like fin rot. That picture was taken within the first few days of it appearing. It was not along the edge, and nothing was exposed it was just a small little line. There has been no injury in that location (that I was aware of). He was not being treated for anything at the time, and was not biting at the time. 

I think what is attacking the tail, and what is attacking his anal fin are different. The tail has always been black. The anal fin has always been red. The anal fin bacteria started in the middle of the anal fin (the whole center of the fin turned red, and it started to tatter from there. The anal fin did get better with the Kanaplex, but the tail has never been better. 

The tank is no aerated, and I do not have anything to aerate it. I can pick something up, but he is already having trouble swimming.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

OK, if the anal fin got better with Kanaplex, that points to a bacterial infection.

As for the caudal fin (tail) - it's difficult for me to see details. It looks like originally it was a thin dark line at the edge. And now it's moved up to the body, and split the fin into two pieces. Is that correct? Do you think you can get a better photo of it?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> OK, if the anal fin got better with Kanaplex, that points to a bacterial infection.
> 
> As for the caudal fin (tail) - it's difficult for me to see details. It looks like originally it was a thin dark line at the edge. And now it's moved up to the body, and split the fin into two pieces. Is that correct? Do you think you can get a better photo of it?


Yes. That is correct. I can probably get a better picture in a few weeks, alas my camera on my phone is horrible. Pictures are very dark no matter what the lighting.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

OK.... Well.... Going back to what Taeanna mentioned, does his caudal fin look like Sakura's photo on this thread? 

From what I can see, your guy's caudal fin looks more blue/purple. 

Is it dead (necrotic) tissue? Or just discolored (but still living) tissue?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

It's black/purple colored not gray. It's not the disease in Sakura's thread. 

I have no idea. How do you tell the difference? I always assumed black tissue was necrotic tissue. 

I just got a decent (not great, but up close) picture of it I'll post.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

This is from around 10:00 CST Feb 10th, 2014.


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