# Fin rot or Crowntail?



## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

I've had Pablo for 6 months. A few months ago I believe he got fin rot (listless and not eating) so I did two rounds of treatment. He's in a filtered and heated five gallon tank. I check his water weekly and don't see anything off. Since his treatment he swims, eats well and makes bubble nests. However, his fins look really shredded to me. I am wondering if this is new fin rot, recovering fin rot or is this how Crowntails look? I'd be more worried if he was acting sick but he's a very active fish. I'm currently teaching him how to swim through a hoop. Thank you!


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## MaGiC74 (Aug 17, 2020)

DaniV said:


> I've had Pablo for 6 months. A few months ago I believe he got fin rot (listless and not eating) so I did two rounds of treatment. He's in a filtered and heated five gallon tank. I check his water weekly and don't see anything off. Since his treatment he swims, eats well and makes bubble nests. However, his fins look really shredded to me. I am wondering if this is new fin rot, recovering fin rot or is this how Crowntails look? I'd be more worried if he was acting sick but he's a very active fish. I'm currently teaching him how to swim through a hoop. Thank you!
> View attachment 1025108
> View attachment 1025109


He has fin rot. As you can see, he doesn't have uniform "gaps" along the sides of his fins, his fins are shredded and there are even some holes in the middle.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! He's not a crowntail. I believe this is additional tearing, but this link can clarify.









Let's Talk: Fin Rot vs. Fin Biting


Fin Biting vs. Fin Rot Every now and then there is an influx of posts on if my Betta has fin rot and what to do! So here is a thread to explain what you all what to know. As first time keepers we may read a page on fin rot and then look at our fish and suddenly believe our fish has fin rot! So...




www.bettafish.com





Anyway, is the hoop completely smooth? Even if so, I'd stop with the hoop training for a couple of months and see if he starts to heal. You'll see clear finnage growing at the edges.

Are all the other things in his tank completely smooth, even the insides of hard decor?

Also, just to be sure, let me post this link as well;








Oldfishlady water change recommendations


Lots of different ways to successfully keep this species- Based on the experiments I have conducted over the years-I have found that water quality can be maintained by these water change schedules. This is based on feeding quality foods and not overfeeding-since most water quality...




www.bettafish.com


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

A "before" photo would help. Impossible from this one to know which caudal type.

Please fill out this form PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Fill out this form so we can...

The form includes not only the information needed for accurate diagnosing but also aids us in giving advice to help prevent future occurrences.


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

Thank you so much for your advice. I've taken out any decor that may be making the problem worse, I've started a round of API Fin & Body Cure and I just ordered a Freshwater Master Test Kit (right now I use the High Range PH Test Kit.) Any other treatment advice would be very welcome. I feel terrible that I didn't seek advice sooner; I second guessed myself because he is not acting like he is in distress. How long does it take after a treatment for the fins to start regrowing? When will I know progress is being made?


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi! 



DaniV said:


> When will I know progress is being made?





Mbpoppy said:


> You'll see clear finnage growing at the edges.


Take a look at Russelltheshihtzu's post just above and post that form with answers about food, maintenance etc - it's really helpful for members to see more of what's been happening in his environment


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Mbpoppy said:


> Hi!
> Take a look at Russelltheshihtzu's post just above and post that form with answers about food, maintenance etc - it's really helpful for members to see more of what's been happening in his environment


Yes, please do. I'm sure we can help once we have the required information.


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

Here's my completed intake form for Pablo. Unfortunately I don't have any "before" pictures.

*Housing:*
How many gallons is your tank? 5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 77-78
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

*Food:*
What food brand do you use? Hikari Bio-Gold pellets
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets (he doesn't like flakes)
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice/day 5 pellets each time

*Maintenance:
Before* your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every 3 weeks
What percentage of water did you change? 75%
What is the source of your water? Tap (San Diego)
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? No, just ordered one yesterday
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Seachem Prime conditioner. I also add Imaginarium's Biological Booster.

*Water Parameters:*
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

I don't have exact numbers, so I ordered a kit that will provide more specific numbers. I was originally using Tetra Easy Strips, and in the past couple of weeks I stated using API High Range PH Test Kit.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

*Symptoms and Treatment:*
When did you first notice the symptoms?

I noticed symptoms three months ago. He was lethargic and wouldn't come to the surface when I went to his tank. He also wasn't hungry. I did two rounds of API Fin and Body Cure and within that week he was swimming and eating. He has also been making bubble nests. I did start to see some new webbing forming, but within the past few weeks I saw that he was looking more shredded and has a spot of white at the end of his tail.
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Yes, his fins have a shredded look, there are some small holes in his fins also. I haven't seen any part of his fin fall off, and I don't see anything on his body.

How has your Betta’s behavior changed? No
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Yes, I started a new round of API Fin and Body Cure yesterday (12/3)
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
This is his second time in the six months I've had to treat him. Perhaps his original fin rot never completely healed?

How long have you owned your Betta? Six months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No to my knowledge.

I took out all decor that may affect his fins, including plastic plants and a large skull that he could swim through and hide. Right now all I have in there are silk plants. I'm hoping this is not a severe case and that he can make a full recovery. His appearance seems to be worse than his demeanor; he is otherwise acting like a healthy fish.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Hi! As stated above, this looks mostly like nipping. Could we get a full pic of the tank?


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

Here's a picture of the tank, and here's a picture of the skull decor I took out yesterday that has jagged edges inside. Can a fish nip itself?


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Yes, it is good you removed that. While he is nipping I would stick to plants as his main "hide" as with hides he can easily turn around and bite at them.

Small side note- I would switch out his food to something more high-quality as hikari has lots of fillers. I prefer Omega One, Northfin Pellets, Fluval Bug Bites, and New Life Spectrum. I would also recommend looking into some frozen foods to switch up his diet some 2x weekly. I like the carnivore packs or bloodworms.

For a 5 gal tank you need to do 15% water changes weekly, and it is great you ordered the testing kit.

His tank is very open and that could be adding to stress. I would add some more silk plants in there. I like using silk plants from walmart/craft store as they are very cheap and basically the same thing as something you can find at the petstore. You can also put a towel over the tank to help with stress. The main key that's going to help you with nipping is clean water and tannins. I like using Indian Almond Leaves, but Roobios Tea works too. Boil the water for 15 mins, place the leaves in, and let sit overnight. In the morning the water will be a nice tan color which will help with stress and preventing infection. You can find these on amazon or at petco.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Here's more information about water changes, i posted it above but it won't hurt to post it again ;









Oldfishlady water change recommendations


Lots of different ways to successfully keep this species- Based on the experiments I have conducted over the years-I have found that water quality can be maintained by these water change schedules. This is based on feeding quality foods and not overfeeding-since most water quality...




www.bettafish.com


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

Thank you everyone for all of your help, I just finished testing his water:
PH: 7.6
High range PH: 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrate: between 5-10 ppm

So his water is looking good. I also bought him some Omega pellets and bloodworms. I also put a ton of silk plants in his tank and I'll start putting a pillowcase over his tank on and off throughout the day. I am hoping this was just stress (pandemic really has affected us all) and that the treatment will take effect soon!


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi there, it appears that he may have started with some fin biting (or gotten his fins torn somewhere) and picked up an infection. One of the reasons for the recurrence is the environment.
You want to do 50% water changes at least weekly with a vacuum, I didn't see an answer to the vacuum in the questionnaire.
Finish up his current meds and give his tank a good cleaning, you want to stir up the gravel and vacuum out all the gunk.

If he's still not looking better, we can move on to something a little stronger (Kanaplex, Furan-2 or Triple Sulfa).


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

Just wanted to provide an update on Pablo. After more than a month of several treatments, using only bottled water and moving him to a smaller hospital tank he still wasn't improving. Finally, I read an article about salt baths and decided to give it a try. I'm so happy to say that after a week of daily salt baths, accompanied with 20% water changes every other day, his fins are starting to grow and he's getting back to his old self! It's stressful to see how many treatment option there are for fin rot, and how much trial and error it took to find something that worked. I'm so happy though that the simplest option seems to be the most effective one for him. Thanks all for your advice!


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## MaGiC74 (Aug 17, 2020)

DaniV said:


> Just wanted to provide an update on Pablo. After more than a month of several treatments, using only bottled water and moving him to a smaller hospital tank he still wasn't improving. Finally, I read an article about salt baths and decided to give it a try. I'm so happy to say that after a week of daily salt baths, accompanied with 20% water changes every other day, his fins are starting to grow and he's getting back to his old self! It's stressful to see how many treatment option there are for fin rot, and how much trial and error it took to find something that worked. I'm so happy though that the simplest option seems to be the most effective one for him. Thanks all for your advice!


I'm glad he's feeling better )


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

And here's Pablo today! His fins are growing back nicely. I always keep a little aquarium salt in his tank and when I do a big water change I give him a maintenance salt bath. So happy he's better


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi!
If this were me, I'd stop with the salt and just go with water changes and indian almond leaf or plain decaf rooibos tea. You can simply float either one. The salt is a bit harsh.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

Agreed, bettas do not need salt all the time and constant use can do more harm than good. Indian almond leaves have anti bacterial properties and can be left in the tank 24/7.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Pablo looks absolutely wonderful!!! You should be so proud of yourself! FWIW, I am giving you a virtual pat on the back.


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

BettaloverSara said:


> Agreed, bettas do not need salt all the time and constant use can do more harm than good. Indian almond leaves have anti bacterial properties and can be left in the tank 24/7.


Thanks for this, I am stocking my up on almond leaves for him, he likes to make bubble nests around them.


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## DaniV (Jan 3, 2021)

So I have a question about tank size. After Pablo recovered I moved him to a five gallon tank. After a couple of weeks though I saw his fins start to recede again. I immediately moved him back to his 2.5 gallon hospital tank. After healing again, I have just kept him in this tank, took out the filter and he seems to be doing great. Is it possible that some Betta feel more comfortable I'm a smaller tank?


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

He is nipping his fins. It sounds to me like he feels stressed in the larger tank, this is common. I’d leave him in the smaller tank. My biter likes his 3 gallon best, I have tried him in 3,5 and 10.


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