# Breeding in community aquarium?



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I recently bought a impressive half moon King Betta from petco, and very carefully introduced him into my 48 gallon aquarium with 1 cichlid(my avatar) and a large pleco. My new Betta seems happy, and I added a few silk plants at the surface over a large plant to be a little safe haven for him to feel nice and secure, as well as a place that blocks any current created by the power filter and aeration. 

I've breed a few fish, the first being sword tails many years ago, and more recently my red/blood parrot and convict cichlid(my current cichlid is one of their offspring,her name is Malina) and was wondering if I could do the same with my new Betta. 

He seems to be more interested in exploring the aquarium and protecting his territory than building a bubble nest so I bought a female crown tail and put her into my fry container that sits in the tank (it's 5X5X12" and has slits at either end, this is only a temporary container to see if it interested the male at all) and he seemed interested at first, then went back to doing his own thing. every once in a while he comes back and they flare their gill covers at each other. 


Also, does anyone know how often a female would be ready to breed? one of the females at the store had the dark bands, but I didn't get her because of her small size.


----------



## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, have you researched breeding Bettas? Do you have the live food cultures which take weeks to setup going? All the male fry containers? Extra 20+ gallon tank for growout without killing fry? IAL's? Genetic knowladge? Expirience in kepping Bettas? I know nothing about breeding chichilids, but I'm pretty sure raising/spawning Bettas is definatly more difficult than it is with swordtails. 

Okay, just had to add int hat first part (= No, they can't spawn in a community, because they have to be conditioned in their own tank first. Then they need a shallow yet wide tank with hiding places and tannins and absolutely no current. Then you need to put the female in the glass and read body language not looks and release her. Half the time it doesn't work out, sometimes the Bettas are killed from owners not being home to seperate them (fighting fish lol). The easy part is setting this up, though.

Then you have to get the female out of the tank and medicate her as she'll be very weak and the male will try to kill her. The male will stay with the fry and might be an egg eater and destroy your spawn, or he might father them.You have to leave the lights on until they're free swimming a few days after hatching, then you have to feed nearly microscopic live food for at least a month as baby Bettas are this size: . Then you have to remove the father and give the fry pristine water without sucking them up. Then you need to move them to a growout tank/tub of their own for 1-3 months (depends when you add them) All the while slowely mixing between different types of live food and frozen foods. After a few months they'll begin fighting and you can sex them, you put the males into seperate fry containers, but you can house the females together.

I get the feeling you haven't researched it enough. I'm not even going to get into detail about breeding Bettas, but that's just to show you how much harder it is for them than, say, live bearers. Yes, they need their own tank, they'll be eaten/destroyed by the filter/starve. Of course just getting the Bettas to spawn is usually very hard...

There's my huge reply (= If you want to breed Bettas research more into it. It's hard work and expensive, but if you learn as much as you can it can be done. Again, sorry if I misunderstood the post and you actually have done your research, but the question just makes it seem as if you haven't. I hope I didn't discourage you from breeding but encouraged you to research lol.

EDIT: Also, you shouldn't keep a Chichilid with a Betta. Predator+Betta= )=


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Fry are not going to survive in a community tank. The other fish will eat the eggs or fry.I'm surprised that the cichlid hasn't eaten the betta.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

If the cichlid doesn't eat the betta the pleco probably will depending on what species.

I pretty much agree with everything Baylee said. Big resounding no on that one.


----------



## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

^ What they said.


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

to baylee767

"have you researched breeding Bettas?"
I've done tons of research, buying/reading different betta books, websites, and more recently this forum.

 "Do you have the live food cultures"
My friend breeds cichlids and would give me brine shrimp baby's/eggs 

"All the male fry containers?"
not really sure.... I have close to 300 jars, but I'm unsure about using that because the fish wouldn't have any heat. if it's the summer that might be ok as long as it's not a heat wave. I've 

"20+ gallon tank for grow out without killing fry?"
I have a 15 gallon available to me since my stepdad kinda sucks at keeping his tetras alive, as well as a additional 20 gallon I can set up.

IAL's? 
I don't know what AIL's is  it's an acronym right?

Genetic knowledge?
only a little from memory, one of my books has a little about dominant colors, and I have a few webpages bookmarked http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/genetics.htm this seemed like the most usefull to me, do you know any better websites/books on genetics? For the first spawn I decided not to worry about genetics, that I would just buy fish I thought looked good and be surprised by what traits were passed on. 

Experience in keeping Bettas?
I don't have very much experience keeping Bettas, but I feel confident in my ability after reading so much about betta care, and knowing that I can find much more information in the different threads on this site that I may not of run across in books already. 

~*~

I thought it probably wasn't likely to breed them in a community tank but wanted to give it a shot anyway. with my cichlids (they laid eggs) I let them take care of their eggs and protect them in the tank with my other fish, and made sure to leave cucumber for my pleco to eat rather then the eggs during the night. Once the eggs hatched I moved them into a separated section of the tank and feed them tiny baby brine shrimp and small pellets until they were two inches long, then kept two and gave the rest to my friends/family who wanted them (they all wanted my "babies" lol) 

I also decided that unless I move my cichlid I absolutely cannot release my female into that aquarium to breed even if it was possible. I bought my cichlid some brine shrimp squares as a treat and as my fish ate it in one bite I realized it was almost the same size as the little female and she would be hard for her to resist.


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

Also thanks for all the great responses, it helped me a lot to get a definitive answer about this subject.


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> If the cichlid doesn't eat the betta the pleco probably will depending on what species.



My Pleco is actually to big for my aquarium, he's 13" and stuck in a 48 gallon(he grew into it) So my friend and I agreed earlier today that that we would watch each others plecos for a few years until I can afford to set up a really nice 100+ aquarium. Her aquarium is a 80 gallons with a little 5 inch pleco in it.

And now my pleco and have more room to grow and exercise, and my betta won't possibly be eaten while sleeping as a plus


----------



## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

You should switch the plecos. It makes more sense to house the smaller pleco in the smaller aquarium and your pleco in her larger aquarium. 

Also, just to let you know betta fry can't survive on baby brine shrimp alone


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I would never breed (what ever fish) in a community except with certain kinds of "suckers". Even small live bearers and small gold fish (meant as food) can destroy a whole cichlid spawn.



turtle10 said:


> Also, just to let you know betta fry can't survive on baby brine shrimp alone


Why not? It's advised that fry are fed different kind of food. But they can survive with only one kind during certain periods of development.


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

turtle10 said:


> You should switch the plecos. It makes more sense to house the smaller pleco in the smaller aquarium and your pleco in her larger aquarium.
> 
> Also, just to let you know betta fry can't survive on baby brine shrimp alone



I'm definitely switching them. before I had been considering donating him to my the local fish specialty store, but kept procrastinating because I couldn't bear to part with him after so many years. I'm amazed my friend and I never thought of switching our plecos before 

I just read tutorials about micro worms, and also about Infusoria, I like the idea of infusoria, but I am a little worried about knowing the difference between a good infusoria and water that will kill the fry. I might split the fry and try both ways to see which I like better.

Have you tried both ways? if so which did you like more?


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

indjo said:


> I would never breed (what ever fish) in a community except with certain kinds of "suckers". Even small live bearers and small gold fish (meant as food) can destroy a whole cichlid spawn.
> 
> 
> Why not? It's advised that fry are fed different kind of food. But they can survive with only one kind during certain periods of development.





My community tank at the time was also pretty small(number of fish, not size of aquarium), other then the parents there was my Pleco and a Jack Dempsey. I also separated the fry. I can totally see your concern, and I did loose a few fry from my pleco the first time I bread cichlids because I didn't separate them soon enough. after that first time I never had any problems as long as I left really good food so my pleco didn't eat all the eggs.


In one of the betta books I bought, the writer said you can give them baby brine shrimp. He did mention that the smaller fry might have trouble. That's just one persons opinion though.


----------



## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

It isn't advised to raise them solely on brine shrimp. They need a variety of foods, minerals, and nutrients as they grow.

That is like raising a baby solely on potatoes or something. Everyone needs a variety. 

Also, some breeders believe that feeding too much of any protein rich food like baby brine shrimp can cause Swim Bladder Disorders in the fry. 

Variety is key.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

turtle10 said:


> It isn't advised to raise them solely on brine shrimp. They need a variety of foods, minerals, and nutrients as they grow.
> 
> That is like raising a baby solely on potatoes or something. Everyone needs a variety.
> 
> ...


I second this, exclusive feeding of brine shrimp in the first 1-2 weeks has been showed to cause swim bladder disorder and even jaw deformities (from fry trying to eat something too big for their mouths). Fry need variety from the start to grow healthily IMO.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

*I agree it's better to feed a variety of food*. But sometimes it's not possible and I'm just saying that it's possible to feed them exclusively with BBS for the first 2 weeks then change it in accordance to their growth. 

Swim bladder disorder, IMO is caused by over eating. After you fast them, they're better. So what ever you feed can cause this disorder. And you cant really stop them from eating more than their portion. That's why I make sure that I always over feed live food so they don't need to compete for food and will only eat their share.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

True, it is of course possible to feed one food exclusively. But IMO you shouldn't breed fish if you don't have the funds or ability to provide a goof variety of food. It's one thing if it was an accidental breeding, but if it is a planned breeding then the planning part should include getting plenty of different types of food. Just my opinion of course.

The general belief around brine shrimp causing swim bladder when fed to newly hatched fry is because of their size in relation to the fry and difficulty of digestion. Microworms are much easier for fry to eat and digest and are therefore far less likely to cause bloating and other disorders.


----------



## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I'll definitely make sure to culture some micro worms then since it's highly recomended  I would hate to see unhappy sick little fry. I feed my full grown bettas a bunch of different foods (tetra pellets, betta food, brine shrimp, blood worms, and the male occasionally eats a cichlid pellet) to try to keep them healthy and interested in which food I'll be giving them.

I'm going to wait to try breeding until I set up a aquarium as a breeding tank. I need to get out of the cichlid breeding mind set and into the bettas. 


Thanks for all the great responses


----------



## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

IMO baby brine shrimp is the best food for the first month. No other small live food has the nutrients it has...microworms and vinegar eels do nothing but keep them alive.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

That's a hasty thing to say. There are some top breeders who never feed bbs and produce gorgeous fish.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree...there are lots of good ways to feed and rear Betta fry...true, the more varied the better, however, when feeding BBS it is important to understand their life cycle in regards to nutrition they provide.....newly hatched BBS that have the yolk sac intact are highly nutritious and all the fry need for good growth and development without any health problems....but once you start feeding the BBS without the yolk sac they have very little nutrition and when you will start to see a decline in health, growth and development of the fry.....

Other than the microorganism that my tanks produce....for the first month or so my fry get only newly hatch BBS and my fry grow/develop without any health problems and once the BBS absorb the yolk sac and the fry are at least 6-8 weeks old I use a HUFA supplement on the older BBS without a yolk sac to feed the fry

The lack of HUFA in the fry diet can cause sudden death or twirling...they twirl/spin to the bottom and die....

Often you will hear of problems related to BBS feedings especially swim bladder...this is usually from poor nutrition and eating the egg casing from the BBS...it can also be non-food related from too cool/dry air above the water when the labyrinth organ is developing...that first gulp of cold dry air can do some real damage.........


----------

