# HMPK Marble Male (giant geno) x DTPK Solid White Female



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i have 2 pair of of Solid white DTPK, been trying to breed them for couple times, never make it, always end up with female beaten up, after a while keeping them i notice the body size of the those pairs are a bit smaller to my liking + i have a hard time spawning them and more over, many experienced breeder tell dtpk x dtpk is a risky spawn for deformed fry. 

was planned to use the male in this spawn for spawning a giant DS female , but since the female is sick and i don't want to risk Don Juan health( my male name lol, he never fail to enchant any female i put with him, so far this is the 4th time i spawn him) , i just use this opportunity to breed Don Juan to the DTPK female since i want to fix the line anyway, Don is proven to pass a great shape of body, super growth fry, and neat butterfly marbling , and more over he has a dominant white body too, just incase any luck i still be able to keep the solid white line from this cross ( he is the male in my other spawn log, his fry are promising) http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=652130

on the same time with this spawn , i spawn one of the solid white DTPK male to a full cello female from a very nice marble line that gives out very good finnages and form (they spawned one day prior to this spawn). my plan is to cross best offspring from these two spawn and f1 from each spawn to pass down DT and Marble line altogether. 

Goal :
Craeating a DT carrier that brings Marble Gene,Good Size, Sturdy and Broad Body with balanced finnages



Pair in a 50 x 30 x 20 plastic tubs,i plan to do father in method for two weeks . they are already spawned (06-02-2016) ( Don Juan never fails me lol), i don't even dare to peek the nest to see eggs,this is a crucial spawn for me, so can't take photo yet.

here are the photo of parents


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Don Juan really never fail me , this spawn is quite huge which is a surprise because female is so petite lol. He is still guarding the fry, same like his two previous spawn , fry growth looks bit uneven, but its not vary too much from the first spawn he had when he was paired with a dragon scale giant geno female.

all the fry looks white, maybe because male is basically irid + opaque. 
but i expect some color bleed later on fins because of male has melano traits,hidden NR, Red, and Irids on his fins.

here some photo i took


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

Haha, as you already know, the egg pile isn't related with females dimension or with how fat she looks. Sometimes, be little ones will break the egg hell loose on you.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

dcg said:


> Haha, as you already know, the egg pile isn't related with females dimension or with how fat she looks. Sometimes, be little ones will break the egg hell loose on you.



yes it really surprise me, i have this habit to only spawn a very fat female hahaha, i am guessing do this related to the female decides to put 2 eggs sack all at once when spawning? i had read this article that saying each spawn female only empty one egg sack. if so that might be explain the fry's size difference.


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

A few months ago I bred 7 weeks old females, two of them. Not very big, as you can guess. Both spawned lots of eggs so I could rise ~130 fry (respectable number) from both of them.

To me it seems that ending spawning and chasing the female away has nothing to do with female being "empty" of eggs. That's for sure, I witnessed countless times females dropping eggs shortly after being separated from male after spawning. Ending the nuptial affair seems more like a male decision, for whatever reason, not shortage of eggs. That being said, every female, large or small, thin or fat, has more eggs to put on the table that are actually spawned.  That's why is not important how plump female looks. Or so I think into my head.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

its been a while since i update this thread, here some biggest grower, they are about 200++ fry, so far i do not see any DT from fry, all the fry seem going mother's bloodline which is not surprising, because father is a full mask irid opaque also, although he is marble, i expect the marble will kicks in in few more weeks.

fry color seem divided to two type, one is darker which give the steel blue shine, one is lighter which give greenish or turquoise shine. i might get yellow fins again because male is a NR carrier and female is NR too for solid white, do i see broad dorsal or its just my eye? lol.

they have bit ugly face, which is bit worrying to me lol, kind like a bad premonition, finger crossed!! i hope this spawn will come with good result, either way i will still going for f2 from this spawn to get DTs, but will go sibling x sibling, not to mother cross back, because i want to lose the small body characteristic that the female has.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Dat female doe!! That is my next purchase.... All opaque DTPK female to add to my marbles in hopes to get more white of of them. I may want one of these fry too once they are ready!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

*warning many pics*

fry getting more shiny, here are some biggest bunch, looks greenish, i spot a couple even with yellowish glow, refresh me again solid white is cambo,nr,op factor , steel blue and metallic? i am trying to figure out where the yellowish glow come from, some fry show a bit of red wash as well, no marble happening yet, maybe pretty soon, they started to show more DT infused dorsals, i really can't wait for the F2,where things will look better hopefully .


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

liamthen said:


> looks greenish, i spot a couple even with yellowish glow, refresh me again solid white is cambo,nr,op factor , steel blue and metallic? i am trying to figure out where the yellowish glow come from


I think the yellowish glow is pretty common among cambo fry. I asked myself that question at some point. Moreover the father was yellow. The fry turned to be plain jane cambo when adult. I could be wrong but you see yellow, don't you?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Yes , i see yellow metallic sheen, it must be the metallic gene


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

jarred 2 males to check if DT gene working, i see slight improvement on dorsal


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Nice! They are looking good. How do the girls look?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

caught 2 biggest female out for photo session, they seems to have improved dorsal as well,most of the bigger one is males, so its pretty hard to spot females with more developed fins


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

The dorsal mast on thfourth one, nice and tall and straight. 
I'm really liking your fish's form, body wise too. pretty girls.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Witchipoo said:


> The dorsal mast on thfourth one, nice and tall and straight.
> 
> thanks , i was at first bit worried for them when they was younger ,they was bit ugly lol


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

THey are looking great. I completely agree with you the dorsals are improving greatly!!!!!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

I have high hope for this spawn Alec, this will be the craddle of my dtpk line, will try to breed back to plat white and marble, but i guess it'd be hard to clean the color again, but i have time for it, i'll be patient , on my plan DT from f1 cross would give me some good size DT, since the fry will have chance grow bigger body like father, will get each male dt and female dt to cross to my solid red half ct half pk geno, i am currently working on , the plan is to create a DTCTPK, so i'd have shorter time to achieve it


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I cannot wait to see the end results! You have a good solid start.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

As they grow larger now, i want to move them to bigger grow out because the current styrofoam tub i have them in has becoming too crowded for them, here are the pic, the tub is stuffed with many cabomba plants, so they have plenty spot to hide and less torn fin.

i use 2 method for my grow out tank, one with cabomba plants on tanks that get enough sunshine, the other grow out that don't get enough sunshine get IAL leaves


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Beautiful fish as usual :-D I really love the pearly colour they have. Dtctpk will be a very interesting project, cant wait to see the finished product


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Are these f2's? I was really hoping you could find a dt male. I would breed it back to the mother. Maybe start getting more dt spawns around f4 I think. Is that to long?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

alecmerkel said:


> Are these f2's? I was really hoping you could find a dt male. I would breed it back to the mother. Maybe start getting more dt spawns around f4 I think. Is that to long?


these are f1 , i plan to spawn f1 siblings to get DT, i read i can get 25% dt if i do the f1 spawn, that should be enough , as the dtctpk project i have 2 way to do this, 1st wait for f2 DT then cross to my CTPK F1 or F2 , 2nd cross the F1 with DT geno directly to my F1 CTPK , i think the 1st way will give more chance to get more DTCTPK, the 2nd way i am not sure, a DT Geno carrier X a CTPK , how would be the web reduction, will the DT geno will be pass down too by the male that just DT geno carrier ? LOL!!! are you confuse? me too!! i'll just do both way :-D

i jarred two white males again,and snap a couple picture of the first turquoise male i jarred last time, he put a good shape and grow some fins already, and so happy to find out that he is only 4 rays for that wide caudal spread, i will perhaps make him next breeder, do think its good guys?

zoom the white one and got a close up snap, they got this white dots/speckles on their fins, maybe because they are technically steel blue + opaque, usually solid blue fish will have that kind dots on fins.

Its really hard to take photos of just jarred young males , they move so fast and the white color make it worse doing it , so excuse the bad pose :lol:


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I would breed that turquoise for sure! He has so much going for him. All his fins have clean, sharp edges and angles. That tail and the ventrals are as close to perfect as you can get and his body is very balanced.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

this particular spawn is huge!! they are on total WC schedule today, a couple of the fry already over grown the first 2 males i jarred last time. no worry about the fry, i only put them in for a brief time, snap 2 picture and then put them back to their tubs, soon i will jarred a couple more males and females


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Lol! Its like a solid mass in there :lol: Youre definitely not going to run of of choices for the next generation!


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

OMG, there must be laws against these kind of photos (J/K). Too funny. ))))))))))))))))) 98% betta, 2% water.


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

So how much do you charge for a Jar-O-bettas?


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

Heh heh
2 cups flour, 
2 eggs
1 cup Jar-O-Betta
Mix well, bake for 35 minutes at 325.
Makes 4 servings. :twisted:


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

OMG witchi , lol make good pizza topping too :lol:, actually there's not too many , perhaps about 200-250 ish


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

:shock: 

...All I can say to the Jar-O-Bettas as pizza topping LOL.

But wow, that is a decent sized spawn. Looking good.


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

200-250 is nothing short of huge.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

ah dcg yes lol not that huge, still will make good pizza topping lol


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

that turquoise male is so gorgeous!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

just jarred 5 random males from the growing up tubs, i am pretty happy for this spawn, their body form seems to inherited the father's , and glad to find that perhaps i can breed back to white color again f2 because i got a pretty clean white male and female in this spawn, they are bit greenish now, i hope by f2 they'll be clean off white again, i am planning to start siblings f2 in 2 weeks or next month


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm in love with the dorsals and caudals on these guys!


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## dual700 (Mar 12, 2016)

What do you do with those after you breed them?
Sell them?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

dual700 said:


> What do you do with those after you breed them?
> Sell them?


yes , since really can't make them pizza toppings,i am going semi professional breeder , will set up my own betta shop next year, so i have one year to prepare all my own lines.perhaps keep one dozen breeder from this line, since it carry valuable genes, and its good to play with good genes, at least you can't end up too badly wrong working with known traits, i had done 2-3 super ugly spawn because i don't know parent's back ground


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## dual700 (Mar 12, 2016)

Interesting. Do you bring them to local fish store/market or?
How much do those fish sell nowadays in Kalimantan?

I am from Surabaya, just recently got back to old hobby of collecting and breeding betta again since the mid 80s..

Thanks


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

I would like to order one Jar O Bettas please.
I'm throwing a pizza party next week.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

dual700 said:


> Interesting. Do you bring them to local fish store/market or?
> How much do those fish sell nowadays in Kalimantan?
> 
> I am from Surabaya, just recently got back to old hobby of collecting and breeding betta again since the mid 80s..
> ...


fish sell for varied price depends of quality and lines from a mere 25 cents to whooping 100 bucks for a show champion, after i sort the best one out , the rest go to LFS or sold as whole sale for the entire spawn or 20-50 fish a go to reseller.
good to meet a fellow country man here , glad to find another old man breeding bettas haha, i am almost 40 years old now


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Witchipoo said:


> I would like to order one Jar O Bettas please.
> I'm throwing a pizza party next week.



lol big no hahaha


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## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

liamthen said:


> lol big no hahaha


Heh heh, the guy in your avstar looks tasty, is he for sale?


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## dual700 (Mar 12, 2016)

liamthen said:


> fish sell for varied price depends of quality and lines from a mere 25 cents to whooping 100 bucks for a show champion, after i sort the best one out , the rest go to LFS or sold as whole sale for the entire spawn or 20-50 fish a go to reseller.
> good to meet a fellow country man here , glad to find another old man breeding bettas haha, i am almost 40 years old now


Sorry, I mean, if we are about to buy bettas and go to common fish places, what is the range now? I remember shopping for big short tail bettas in the 80s for 5 cents on average .
My high school buddy told me it's about $5 for fancy short tails now in capital city.. Sorry, what's LFS?
I am fascinated with your fry growth and rate success. Your batches reaches hundreds, while mine maybe a fraction of that. But maybe fluctuating weather in US affects that, availability to get fry food here and I am sure I need a lot of practice :lol:

Yes, it's midlife crisis for me, hahaha

Thanks


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

dual700 said:


> Sorry, I mean, if we are about to buy bettas and go to common fish places, what is the range now? I remember shopping for big short tail bettas in the 80s for 5 cents on average .
> My high school buddy told me it's about $5 for fancy short tails now in capital city.. Sorry, what's LFS?
> I am fascinated with your fry growth and rate success. Your batches reaches hundreds, while mine maybe a fraction of that. But maybe fluctuating weather in US affects that, availability to get fry food here and I am sure I need a lot of practice :lol:
> 
> ...


price on common betta fish is about $2-$4 for HMPK and Halfmoon in my place for average adult size,while giants cost more.

LFS=Local Fish Shop lol, learned this term on this forum too haha


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Witchipoo said:


> Heh heh, the guy in your avstar looks tasty, is he for sale?


idk if i still have him witchi , i must check haha, he's a short body HMPK, not recommended for import though, this blue marble line has rose tail tendency for too many rays branching, i need to fix this line out crossing with less rays male, perhaps with turquoise male from my dtpk geno spawn


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

F2 spawn already going, got one spawn with eggs now, hoping they make it, because if they are i have chance getting white platinum dtpk very soon!! photos of adult f1 coming soon!!


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