# New to breeding betta fish would really appreciate any advice



## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

I am new to breeding betta fish but I am very experienced with keeping aquariums my idea is based on a diy video I saw 




My idea was to make a larger version of the video with just under 100 cups I was going to use a 10-15 litre tub for breeding the betta and a 90 litre tub for the growout tank and then they would be moved into the cups which are 0.55 litres until I sell them to a local fish shop or somewhere else so my questions are 
1. Is the above suitable everything will be filtered and heated appropriately 
2. I have researched breeding them but a quick overview would be helpful 
3. What would be the best type to breed 
4. I have read that cherry shrimp and Snails can live with the fry is that true and can it be any shrimp and snail species or does it have to be specific breeds 
5. What is the best fry food and adult food?
6. Any intresting facts or advice would be intresting to hear

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any advice and help


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

1. Basically, any system you find in the internet should work - there is no right nor wrong way to keep them as long as you maintain fish's basic needs. You just need to find which better suits you. 

2. To general. I need you to ask more specific questions

3. What ever type catches your eyes. In the end, the breeder must like the appearance of what he/she is breeding to maintain their interest.
Also consider what type people in your area likes - to ensure easier rehoming overstock.
Lastly, consider level of difficulty to recreate colors/patterns and form. For example; newer mabled patterns do not always breed true and may produce unexpected color petterns.

4. I don't normally add shrimps. I can't comment on this. However, I use common pond snails and stem plants. I see more fry survive when there are lots of snails. . . . This is just what works in my tanks. You need to find what is best for you.

5. live works better for fry (infusoria, microworms, bbs, etc). For adults - fish based pellets, an assorted of live/frozen foods. . . . All depending on what is readily available in your area.

6. Too general. Can't think of any atm.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

For question 2 I was on about how to raise fry successfully to adulthood
For question 6 that was just out of intrest so isn't as important as question 2 or 4 also is there a type of snail that stays small and won't reproduce that could live in the cups with the betta


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

With ideal conditions (can't explain in more detail) fry are stronger thus more survive to adult. Logically ideal water conditions are ideal parameters. BUT, personally, I could never succeed using new clean water and tub. Ideal for me is old water and tub, conditioned to house infusoria.

There wasn't much survival difference using bbs, so I stopped since it was a hassle to have several hatcheries going (I may breed 5 or more pairs at once).

Like I said, there is no right nor wrong way to do it. You have to find what best works for you. I advise to use new clean water to breed. Feed regularly with what ever is available in your area or what you could culture. Keep your water (not tub) clean.

For the first week or two, you don't need to clean tank floor. Just keep changing adequate amounts of water (depending on amount of fry to water volume ratio) - siphon out using air stone as not to suck up fry. Then slowly drip new water back in. Yes, it takes some time. . . . You could use snails to eat leftover food.

If you plan on selling, I suggest you move (especially) males at around 1.5 - 2 cm or when fry are 2 months old. They should not be aggressive yet thus you'll be avoiding damaged fins.

Solitary fry/juvies will grow very slowly campared to those in big sorority tanks. However their fins should develop better.

For sororities; try not to stress them in anyway (during water changing, late feeding, illness, changes in tank, etc). This should keep them docile much longer.

If you need to move fry: move at around 5-10mm. Bigger than that may cause aggression thus must be done very carefully (reduce stress). It only takes ONE aggressive individual to create a war zone in your tank. Chasing one with a net may stress others and cause aggression.

The above is not always true. Some are simply more docile than others and can be moved anytime without any issues. But it is the most common I see in my tanks/tubs.

Try to learn "your specifics" as you gain more experiences. Every breeder has his/her own experiences. So each may give you differing opinions.

Good luck and keep us posted on your breeding adventures.

**** Sorry for the long post


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

Can you show me some pics of your setup and of other people's setups please also with 90 cups how many pairs could I have


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

What do you mean "90 cups to pairs". Do you mean 90 solitaries?
One adult/full grown female may lay about 1500 eggs. My highest fry count was around 1300+ (ave. Full grown female). Usually only an average of 200-300 fry survive to adult. Out of those, sex ratio is never 50:50. Sometimes, it could be 90-10 males or the opposite.

Most first time breeders I know, produce less than 100 fry - which actually is a good number for learning. But sometimes they do it right and produce 500+. . . . . In short, I can't say how many fry you will produce.

I hope these pictures are clear enough; my set up usually uses plants in one area. I cover the opposite area where I want them to nest. Sometimes I just cover the whole tub and ket them decide where to nest. By the time I move fry, plants may cover most of the tub.

My sororities usually start with just enough plants to cover the back of the tank. Eventually plants may grow all over the tank.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

How many litres are the tubs and how do you separate the males


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

The black tubs are about 7g (60cm diameter)
Breeding tanks are about 13g (60.30.30cm)
Growout/sororities are about 40 and 50g (90cm and 120cm tanks)

I don't usually put in solitary. Immediately rehome from sorority. I only separate the breeders (usually total 10 males and 20 females). Males go into 1g or stay in the breeding tank. Females go into half gallons or 2ltr bottles.
Bigger fish (giant related) go into 5g tanks or buckets.
Usually separated after adult or about 4-5 months.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

Okay do you know if there's anything I could put in each cup like a snail or somthing to keep algae down that won't breed also what about shrimp and Snails in fry tank


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

indjo said:


> What do you mean "90 cups to pairs". Do you mean 90 solitaries?
> One adult/full grown female may lay about 1500 eggs. My highest fry count was around 1300+ (ave. Full grown female). Usually only an average of 200-300 fry survive to adult. Out of those, sex ratio is never 50:50. Sometimes, it could be 90-10 males or the opposite.
> 
> Most first time breeders I know, produce less than 100 fry - which actually is a good number for learning. But sometimes they do it right and produce 500+. . . . . In short, I can't say how many fry you will produce.
> ...


✋🏼500 my first one lol …everyone’s laughing at me rookie self lol good thing I was prepared even tho it was my 1st one plus my Lfs has zero questions taking my fish since they are familiar with how I keep mine. My family comment they love how there’s absolutely zero questions when they take my fish. It’s a honor they take my fish with zero questions. I have so much store credit to play with my hobby now so it helps a lot. Now all their frozen and live food is just from selling a few of their siblings 😹


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

VLM said:


> ✋🏼500 my first one lol …everyone’s laughing at me rookie self lol good thing I was prepared even tho it was my 1st one plus my Lfs has zero questions taking my fish since they are familiar with how I keep mine. My family comment they love how there’s absolutely zero questions when they take my fish. It’s a honor they take my fish with zero questions. I have so much store credit to play with my hobby now so it helps a lot. Now all their frozen and live food is just from selling a few of their siblings 😹



Wow that's awesome what kind of setup do you have pictures would be great if possible and can you help me with my last post please and how do you transport them to the fish shop


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Hello 👋🏻 
I have a few cherry shrimp in one of my grow out tanks and they don’t bother the fry at all. I don’t recommend putting anything into the cups on the grow out rack but you could put some into the sump/tank that the water pours into at the bottom of your rack. Unless you have direct sun hitting your co op rack system you won’t deal with a lot of algae. I have a different recirculating water system and I occasionally need to change tubing if it gets gross. The tubbing that drips water into the top of the cups are the ones I have to change and sometimes the valves need to be changed. I’ve had mine running for about a year and I’ve only changed tubbing twice.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

Ok thanks what about bamboo shrimp with fry and X skully X can you show me some pics of your setup please


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)




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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Well bamboo shrimp are filter feeders and quite large, I don’t think it would bother your fry either but it won’t clean as well as regular shrimp. I use the cherry shrimp as cleaners. I also have pest snails lol but I’m not sure they are really cleaning anything more like just making more mess. I use the snails and shrimp because fry die sometimes and the shrimp and snails will eat anything dead quickly plus any food left behind so I don’t have to worry about sudden ammonia spikes in the water.


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

With any recirculating water system my biggest advice is to check drainage regularly. Something gets clogged and suddenly the water is spilling over everywhere. I ruined a room floor when duckweed got stuck in a drain hose and the container overflowed all night. There was so much water damage I ended up re doing the whole floor.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

The pictures are those breesing tubs and what do your growouts look like and what do you do with the males


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I’m growing them out in a 40 gal. I used 10 gallon totes for breeding the pair and then transferred the fry to the 40 gals. I didn’t like using solid tubs, I bred my last pair right in the 40 gal and removed them when it was time. I only use my rack for males that need to be separated and alone. Sometimes the biggest aggression I’ve had were actually females. I had four or five males in my sorority for a year before they showed breeding signs (bubble nest, chasing, guarding a spot) I pulled them as soon as I saw that happening.

you’ll just need to pay attention to which fish are causing problems and pull them out of the grow out tank and keep them solitary.

edited to say: don’t put your tanks on the floor unless you have a hose that connects to a faucet for water changes. A hand pump hose needs gravity to work well.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

Is 90 litres big enough of a grow out or would you say larger would be better


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I say it depends on how many fry you have in the 90 liter and how often you change the water. Longer tanks are better than taller tanks. I’ve had small groups in 10 gallons and 20 gallons with no problems other than the normal aggression that comes with maturity. You may find some of your fry are a lot bigger than the others and eat most of the food and the littler ones start to go hungry. Then you may separate them by size so the smaller ones can get enough to eat. Hence why I have so many tanks at this point. In my personal opinion bigger is always better but there are many ways one can be creative to separate fish, like buckets and totes. If I could heat my whole fish room I’d never use heaters again haha


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

How do you transport them to the fish shop and how would you send them in the mail


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I have plastic bags like the fish store uses to send fish home with people. I bag them and wrap the bag in paper so the fish can’t see eachother and pack them in a box. I label each bag with gender and color and take it to the store I sell my fish to. Shipping is similar, depending on local temperatures I’ll add a 72 hour heat pack. I like to tie a knot in the bag, flip it and put it into another bag and tie another knot. That’s how the International betta Congress prefers fish be sent to shows so that’s how I do it. Double bagging helps in case one of the bags leak.
You’ll have a few months to figure that out, lots of great shipping fish videos on YouTube. I don’t use breather bags. Just the regular plastic


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

For things in the sump could that be anything or does it have to be Snails because I was thinking a large school of somthing would be nice and is there a snail I could put in the cups that would stay small and not reproduce or somthing else to eat the algae


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Just scrub the cups every once in awhile. They aren’t big enough to house more than just a fish. You can set your sump up in many ways. I have lava rock and sponges in my sump. You could set it up with live plants and a light but you’ll have a lot of fish housed in the cups already, no need to add more poop from other fish into the system.


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## Betta newbie 123 (Aug 20, 2021)

Ok thanks for you help


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Glad to help. Good luck with the gutter system I wanted to build one myself but needed something I could move if I needed. I know a woman who built one for her fish room and she liked the set up 👍🏻


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

Betta newbie 123 said:


> Wow that's awesome what kind of setup do you have pictures would be great if possible and can you help me with my last post please and how do you transport them to the fish shop


It’s a very broad topic without specific question. But I understand sometimes when you are unfamiliar it can be difficult to ask the appropriate question. If I may start, every situation is different depending on conditions. Start by realizing what market you are in and networking. What the guys said above is very good advice to you. How I started just flowed on it’s own as I grew in my hobby. Meeting other hobbyists and getting to learn from them. I never intended it or to profit off bettas. Just following my hobby interests. I can share a lil if it helps with perspective so you can find a lead to get started, but just know every situation and condition is different. You need to figure out yours and apply it efficiently. But to give you an idea of how I started I’ll ramble a lil bit if it helps lol. It’s gonna be long..you ready for it? Lol 

I’ve been a customer to many of my lfs for a few years. I’m always out there every week looking for fish, toys(plants) and foods..the livelier the better. I have more live food on hand than they do and they are all well aware of it bc I keep looking for more all the time and they are giving me referrals. Saying I love my bettas is an understatement lol. 
Through that time they already found out how I keep my fish and my standard of preference. They know my water parameters and how I feed live and how heavily my planted tanks are so by the time my hobby grew to breeding they know how I keep my fish already. They witness a lot of my fish keep methods over the years and my capacity to house fish. Stuff like that let’s locals get to know how well equip you are to house and feed plus deal with anything from arising problems to fail equipment to diseases. You shop with them they know what you buy ..hint hint. I fully stock back bar of meds but I rarely use more than just catappa leaves and water condition, bacteria cult. If you buy meds make sure it’s not mistaken that you buy bc you are unable to keep Bettas. Through trouble shooting fish disease with them on stock I buy they know I have a full stock of meds but I’m very hesitant to throw a medicine cabinet at a baby too rashly so experiencing consulting with them they got to know how my approach is on medicating. Once they get to know you it’s just easier from buying to selling. Now they just text me and I’m out there checking out new shipment before it’s even gone through quarantine. They have a large clientele base capable of doing this, (their own quarantine to space & feeding live, equipment+ )from oscars to bettas and buying them as young as possible bc we can feed. If you’re late it’s gone. It’s literally like an auction off for Betta girls. This lets them know a lot about you. Hobbyists run into each other at their store and we are taking about what’s the ph in our tap water today lol. It’s definitely say 9 then shoots to 10 or even 7.4 suddenly…stuff like that tells you a lot about who is knee deep in this hobby rofl. Just be observant of things like this. Can tell them a lot about you if you are testing your water or not..hint hint  They know all of us so well. Sometimes we even look at their new stock and try to trouble shoot the fish disease with them hahaha or all of us that bought from that stock all had the same death experience and experience hobbyists talk when they know a batch is not good. Make sure you give them good stock your first time  I do notice they stop taking fish from breeders who give them bad stock over the years. Stock that don’t sell or dies or worst..lines of siblings dying from the exact same tumor spot in large numbers. This is all bad business for them. Especially they sell 1-2 dozen to their loyals before it even goes on the market upon arrival @4am from the airport. So just be observant to your market when choosing what to sell to who. In general, LFS do not take fish from random ppl they don’t know. I only give quality fish to large store. The smaller stores they don’t have the clientele and will only leave my babies to die in a cup. So I don’t offer them Bettas. This store puts my babies in tanks. So I drop at least 5-6 or a dozen at a time, like sorority concept for less aggression until they get sold. For the boys, they go into a system. Personally I’m not fond of it bc sometimes fish stores can get a problematic shipment and they all get sick/ infected. So I only give them when they have low/no stock. I can try to fill their whole system to cut down the numbers of bettas that’s not mine in there at risk of getting my stock sick. That’s the best I can think of. If you are for profit just know there’s overhead cost for that and you’re competing with fish farms that is only as low as a penny for them per fish. Plus, domaine, PayPal, etc you need to add up your overhead cost if you want to sell further than just hobby-ing. 

I have a unit built but I lack the stomach for small housing for bettas. I use it for 1 week duration. I’ve only used it to pull some aggressors to wean off the litter for a week then got sold at the store over the weekend. I find they do better in bigger bodies of water so unless they need to be I don’t pull them. I keep them well fed busy hunting and docile as long as I can keep them interested in food and hunts. The longest is 1 week in a 2 liter somewhat filled. They get pulled and sat next to their sump to visible view their siblings until they are no longer afraid. Then I put them in the system for 1 week and when they are confident blowing bubbles and just plain happy ..I pull the ones I feel ready to go. This process takes 5 minutes to pull and bag. The drive is 5-10 minutes. I only drop off Wednesday, Thursday, or early Friday. Never while they are slammed with peek hours of customers..hint hint I prep like this bc I aim for my babies to get sold Friday and Saturday. Sunday dies down on customers so things like plants start to die and they are considered a loss. Monday & Tuesday is closing days. If my babies get sold Friday or Saturday they get to a new home within 24 hours or less and that cuts down the stress levels they can avoid. It’s really nice to see bettas drop off Friday morning and sold in a few hours, same day or next day. Thursday is good drop off day bc early birds try to beat the Friday shoppers so experience fish shoppers start early on Thursdays so I’ll drop off late Wednesday if I feel it. 

-12 or 13 per row/~36 capacity for this system

cycle warm water running through
Completely drains out for no debris left @Bottom
Row shut off isolation only not individual


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

Betta newbie 123 said:


> Wow that's awesome what kind of setup do you have pictures would be great if possible and can you help me with my last post please and how do you transport them to the fish shop


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

[QUOTE


Betta newbie 123 said:


> Wow that's awesome what kind of setup do you have pictures would be great if possible and can you help me with my last post please and how do you transport them to the fish shop


mine are in 40 gallon breeders…but this sump for system is 30. Daliy water changes with a pump and water goes straight into drain. I just said I refuse to change water by hand by cup and sustain wrist and hand injuries. Then it doesn’t add more work with a turkey baister . Luckily I live nearby so I don’t have a long transport for my babies either. Only takes me as long as water flow to change water. Right now I only have 3 in there while I’m moving and cleaning tanks and ponds. So only 1 lil girl from the fry spawn in here bc she had a small fin tear so I put her in to heal and be left alone if she’s getting picked on. Other than that I don’t feel like I use it. I really find they do better in bigger bodies of water so the need to pull takes longer.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Betta newbie 123 said:


> Okay do you know if there's anything I could put in each cup like a snail or somthing to keep algae down that won't breed also what about shrimp and Snails in fry tank


Other than plants and hitchhikers, I wouldn't deliberately put in live citters in containers smaller than 1g (about 4+ltr).

Pond snails don't help much with algae control nor do cherry shrimps in bigger tanks (either that or algae out grows their feeding habbits - in my tanks). You will have to regularly scrub your cups.


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

X skully X said:


> Hello 👋🏻
> I have a few cherry shrimp in one of my grow out tanks and they don’t bother the fry at all. I don’t recommend putting anything into the cups on the grow out rack but you could put some into the sump/tank that the water pours into at the bottom of your rack. Unless you have direct sun hitting your co op rack system you won’t deal with a lot of algae. I have a different recirculating water system and I occasionally need to change tubing if it gets gross. The tubbing that drips water into the top of the cups are the ones I have to change and sometimes the valves need to be changed. I’ve had mine running for about a year and I’ve only changed tubbing twice.


Agree, I don’t put snails in the system..only the sump.


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

X skully X said:


> I say it depends on how many fry you have in the 90 liter and how often you change the water. Longer tanks are better than taller tanks. I’ve had small groups in 10 gallons and 20 gallons with no problems other than the normal aggression that comes with maturity. You may find some of your fry are a lot bigger than the others and eat most of the food and the littler ones start to go hungry. Then you may separate them by size so the smaller ones can get enough to eat. Hence why I have so many tanks at this point. In my personal opinion bigger is always better but there are many ways one can be creative to separate fish, like buckets and totes. If I could heat my whole fish room I’d never use heaters again haha


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Right and we haven’t even discussed hormones that fry put into the water that stunts growth as well. Good food and frequent water changes help remove that hormone from the water…. I’m glad I have a high KH and stable PH without fluctuations. 
VLM and indjo have a good points about water parameters being different for everyone based off your local water source.


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## VLM (Jul 21, 2021)

X skully X said:


> I’m growing them out in a 40 gal. I used 10 gallon totes for breeding the pair and then transferred the fry to the 40 gals. I didn’t like using solid tubs, I bred my last pair right in the 40 gal and removed them when it was time. I only use my rack for males that need to be separated and alone. Sometimes the biggest aggression I’ve had were actually females. I had four or five males in my sorority for a year before they showed breeding signs (bubble nest, chasing, guarding a spot) I pulled them as soon as I saw that happening.
> 
> you’ll just need to pay attention to which fish are causing problems and pull them out of the grow out tank and keep them solitary.
> 
> edited to say: don’t put your tanks on the floor unless you have a hose that connects to a faucet for water changes. A hand pump hose needs gravity to work well.





X skully X said:


> With any recirculating water system my biggest advice is to check drainage regularly. Something gets clogged and suddenly the water is spilling over everywhere. I ruined a room floor when duckweed got stuck in a drain hose and the container overflowed all night. There was so much water damage I ended up re doing the whole floor.
> [/





X skully X said:


> Right and we haven’t even discussed hormones that fry put into the water that stunts growth as well. Good food and frequent water changes help remove that hormone from the water…. I’m glad I have a high KH and stable PH without fluctuations.
> VLM and indjo have a good points about water parameters being different for everyone based off your local water source.


It’s been a sweet learning curve. Thats one of the great things about bettas. We get so excited even with water changes bc we know to expect their visible growth with each water change.
I do have my sump on the floor. I wrap my pump with filter floss to prevent unwanted from entering my line. I use a large pond/fountain pump from Home Depot. It’s able to shoot water 6 ft high and run through my system. My out is only 4 feet to the left. Yes, I’m right next to drain. I haven’t built a line to go straight out yet, for now I just let it go into the 5 gallon bucket until I can further built it out lol. Finding a line to fit the way I want is more difficult than I expected. I’m not sure if I want a line anymore though lol. More problems to trouble shoot. So for now I just pump from 5 gallon bucket into drain. Not the best with an extra step. I have not gotten there yet to trouble shoot the issues I want to overcome. It is handy though Bc I know exactly how much water change they get just in increments of 5 gallons so I know I’m not changing their water too fast. One of my weak points is I tend over water change so it helps me pace myself without too much brain work to know how much water in and out put. This number also helps me monitor their temp consistency in their 2 liters and how long it takes for it to get cold with-in 4-5 hours maybe up to 6 hours when the system is off and not running warm water through them. Then calculate the difference in temp when I wake up to start giving them slow water changes with temp not changing too drastically in mind. If I want to then I can just turn on the room heater and turn off the sumps heater and just heat the whole room. I’ve been working on some fixes so that’s why the whole room is not heated. Too warm and no one wants to be in there to work. 
After the build several stands didn’t work out so I’m taking a pause on stands so I can deal with the stack of stands that didn’t work out. At this point I would probably only raise it or build my own stand/ raise. Once customize built to given space, gravity, pump and all your “gogogadet parts to be in sync” …I end up with a smaller sump than I would like. (That’s okay bc I can always swap it out.) I end up with a 2 liter bottle but I actually wanted 2.5 gallon for my babies. I wanted for it to not be too high to need a ladder to service it.

Some of these specs was not realistic once weight factored in..1 gallon = 9 pounds…if hanging/mounting and plus a row of 9-10 bottles somewhat filled would equal ~ 5 gallon. Then I added more bottles from 9-10 to 12&13. I find pressure was different. Yo-yo it a bit, I find either number was fine to cycle the water through the pvc and leave it running all day. Takes some manual to find the sweet spot but I’m use to it now so it’s easy. 
I’m also going back after I finish. The main parts of the build was to build it on a V lean back stand. This would give me more clearance to play with if I wanted to lower the height. It would be mobile to use outdoors or indoors once I throw it on legs, but I’d be right back to brainstorming weight factor and legs that can support that. It won’t actually need legs to be out door if say I built for someone who had a deck then they can just strap it to their deck or something similar already staked. I mount it for now and move on with my build. So for now this indoor winterize version is a prototype build. 

I Basicly build it like my hydroponic system. When I ran that it was right out the pond. It would run every 5/10/15 minute increments you can select on a remote. Overnight you can just turn it off if you are worried about floods. Like my hydroponic it would just leak out the designated spout so that’s why I have a 5 gallon orange bucket there in case I forgot it. 9-10 bottles complete drain will equal about 5 gallon. I added 12-13 per row, so I can lower the water volume a bit overnight until I get a bigger catch bucket/sink lol. I rather a lil manual for now and not worry about floods. It’s just a prototype build. I hope you guys don’t mind I share a mess lol. For outdoor then it’s easy and you can just water your garden so there’s no waste or mess from floods.


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