# I've done something bad :/



## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I bought a new petshop betta on the weekend as I couldn't bare to leave him behind to deteriorate since he still looked healthy and I had been wanting another betta. I went out and bought a 20L tank (5.2 gallons) although I did have a small 3L tank at home I thought it was cruel to keep him in there and now I just use this for when I do water changes. So obviously the new tank hasn't cycled and I've already put him in there, I also did this with my other betta Bill and he was fine.

I've put ammolock in the tank (makes ammonia non toxic) and a stress coat/tap conditioner (http://www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk...d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/3/237ml_stress_coat.jpg), stability (apparently makes the tank cycle faster http://www.coxwellaquatics.co.uk/ekmps/shops/coxwellaquatic/images/seachem-stability-50ml-1751-p.jpg) as well as an IAL and heaps of silk plants, his tank temp is at about 23 degrees Celsius (73.4F) 

Is there anything I can do other than hope and pray he wont die during the cycle? I know I've made a mistake of not letting the tank cycle, I just want to know now if there is anything I can do.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Does the new tank have a filter, and do you have a filtered tank running that is cycled?


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

I've honestly never pre-cycled my betta tanks. Just be religous about the water changes untill its cycled.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes there is a filter in the tank  and I believe the other tank I have is cycled, Bill has been in it for about 3-4 months now, but Bill is being treated with Melafix for a patch on his side I believe he got when I added AQ salt to his tank undissolved (I'm pretty new to bettas, but I've had Bill for 6-7 months now no problems) 

So I am a bit wary of adding the new fish to his tank, in case he catches a bacterial infection or something of the like, I also don't have a devider to do this so I thought I could add some of Bills water to Bens tank but then I am back with the problem of would it be safe to do this since I am treating for the infection on his side - which has certainly started to heal and look much much better in just a week, but from this his immune system is down and he has saprolegnia, (although I haven't seen any fuzz for a couple of days he does have a pin hole) he has gotten a light infection in his fin spines and the fungus has taken advantage, eating the dead tissue.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

the BB doesn't really live in the water column, this is why you seed a new aquarium with a cycled tanks filter media, not just use the water from a cycled tank.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Well I didn't cycle any tanks Bill has been in, so when I first got him he went straight into the 3L tank and then I saw a 20L tank for $20 bucks, glass, came with rocks, filter, plant and fish net and I was like I need this for Bill he will love it and me so much, so I got it, cleaned everything, set it up and put him in simply with only tap conditioner. So compared to Bill this new fish has ammolock, stabilizer and an IAL which is way more than Bill ever had so I am honestly hoping for the best, my straight tap water fluctuates some days there is 0 ammonia other days it's getting to about .25 but I tested the tanks ammonia and it was 0 so I was happy about that and added ammolock anyway just in case.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I have no idea what you mean by "seed a new aquarium with a cycled tanks filter media" 
:/ sorry, do you mind explaining to me?


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## ToniMarieHolka (Sep 9, 2014)

I never pre-cycle either and all of my fish ended up really healthy


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

The tank does not cycle, the filter media does. A mature colony of nitrifying bacteria is capable of doubling every 24 hours. Take about 1/3 of the media from a mature tank, add it to the new filter, pretty much an instant cycle, within reason depending on the stocking of the donor tank & new tank.

Feed both tanks lightly for a week, less food means less waste produced. Until you get familiar with cloning tanks daily water tests will keep your mind at ease, and direct your water changing procedures, if needed. Half of keeping healthy fish is keeping healthy bacteria.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Gosh, I am feeling a bit better already  

I mean Bill my first fish is fine! other than the patch on his side which I feel is healing up and I had a lady who owns a community tank and I think 2 or 3 other betta tanks as well as a salt water tank and a few others (she has nemo fishes!!! clown fish, so cute) she also feels like his patch his healing because other than that he swims around, chases my finger, loves eating his blood worms, I put a new silk plant into his tank yesterday and he was straight into it investigating it which was cute! at least I thought it was lol, he flares and just the other night I found out he loves to watch kids cartoons which was also terribly cute to me lol


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

yeah sorry I should have explained that a little better! Lol


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Okay so 25% or 50% water changes daily for the new tank?? I'm thinking I might feed him blood worms as someone told me they are good for extra protein so I'm thinking that might make him strong and healthy, since he is really tiny compared to my big boy Bill so I'm thinking he won't take the nitrite and nitrates cycle very well being so young


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Lol! no that's okay


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

yes I did a PWC (partial water change) every 1-2 days when my 5 gal was cycling, but if you were to get an API fresh water master test kit, you'd know when you have to Change it instead of guessing. The test kit is about 25$ and its well worth it!

edit: I'm not sure what they carry as far as test kits in Australia, I just noticed thatxD lol


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

That's okay! lol 
I think I did see that test kit at the pet store they were asking like $60 for it :S lol I'll do the frequent water changes as I wont be able to get to the pet store now until the weekend, as I work full time and by the time I finish the pet stores are due to close about half an hour after that and it'd take me that long to get there :/ so inconvenient. 
But I'll get a nitrite and nitrate test kit on the weekend  I have a PH and ammonia one I don't know why but I just thought if the ammonia was good I'd be okay :S


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Feed light the 1st several days to a week, food is a stressor. Netted, bagged, driven around town & tossed in different surroundings is stressful enough, you don't want to add more. As mentioned, feeding heavy isn't going to help with water quality in a potential cycling situation. Protein heavy is not the way to start.

You got in one fish, I got in 300-400 angels & 100 plecs today. It's all knowing how bacteria reproduce & how products like Prime work. Adding 100 angels to a tank that had 8 is standard operating procedure around here, I'm sure not going to steer you wrong with 1 fish! Transfer some media, feed both tank lightly for a week, you'll be good to go. Test & change water as indicated by the tests. I don't even test, I just change water, but you don't want to get into what I'm into, it'll ruin your life.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

that's alot of fish! Lol^


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol, it's a few, I've maxxed out in the 600-700 range with angels coming in, but I'm set up for dealing with that. I've backed off on the angel breeding a bit, there's a few things I'd like to accomplish with my club in the upcoming year. The first 4-6 weeks are the toughest with angel fry, I was pretty empty, buddy who is a breeder is swamped. Cut me a deal, I'll help you out, plenty of upcoming events to sell them at.

The same principles with bacteria apply, doesn't matter if it's cloning a single betta tank off another single betta tank, or loading 100's of fish into 40's & 150 gallon tubs. Bacteria don't know, they suck at math.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Wow, that is a lot of fish! My mum use to have angel fish, tetras and I think we had 3 shark fish, the shark fish ate the angel fish and tetras :/ mum woke up one morning and the tank was near empty! it was pretty gruesome lol 

I'll feed light then, I do know Bill loves his blood worms so I might continue to give him some since it should help him with his healing and he's in his own little tank all good. Ben will have to miss out this time lol

When you say transfer some media we are talking about water right? or wrong? I'm not very up with fish slang and speak, which is embarrassing lol I feel like an old person trying to work out facebook -.-


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## farmgirl82 (Jul 30, 2014)

They mean media out of your filter. Whatever your filter has in it is what your bb(beneficial bacteria) live on. Media can be a bunch of different things but most commonly it's sponge material. Take 1/3 portion of that sponge (cut it if you have to) & put it in your new filter along with whatever media is in your new filter.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol @ old person & Facebook, but hey, we all started at the same place with this fish nonsense, same as with Facebook. Some filters have sponges, pads, layers of foam floss & bio balls or some such, it will all work as the bacteria aren't choosy about the surface, as long as there's surface area. Cutting to fit works fine, as long as water flows through it you're pretty well set.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Okay makes a bit more sense, in my filter is a black sponge that fits it, so I cut 1/3 portion of that sponge and put it back in the filter?

Sorry Farmgirl82 I just feel like you repeated yourself in the last sentence and it's not making sense to me :S 

Sorry if I'm sounding really stupid or incompetent I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing when I go to do it because last time I just went ahead and did something and it created a whole new problem because I should of asked a lot more questions and probably used a bit of common sense but when I'm stressing out common sense doesn't usually work for me lol 

Too true, we all start some where, I really appreciate all your help and patience with me, at least I am trying my hardest to give my fishies what they need and not just chucking them in a small bowl with no heater or filter, no special water treatments etc. I've probably spent close to $1,000 now for my fin babies and have created a mini pet shop with all sorts of lotion and potions for them lol


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

we don't mind questions here! Its better to ask 10 times, then to ask once and still be un-sure and mess up something! Lol 
and yes remove part of the sponge and put it in the new filter


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

You got it, cut 1/3 off the cycled tank filter sponge, add it to the new filter. No problem asking questions to be sure, better safe than sorry! 

Lol, I'm seeing my wife's collection of Bath & Body Works goop with the lotions & potions thing. I think we all go through that at first too, in time you find out which ones you really need & actually do something useful, and which ones just don't work out.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks guys! 

Just didn't want to seem annoying and like I shouldn't have these bettas, I'd be heart broken if one died, I really love them both, but I love Bill more since the other ones only new but I feel like he's going to love having photos taken since he seemed to be posing for me today  

Haha! I live in Australia and have seen and heard so much about bath and body works apparently they have some really nice stuff so I can imagine the collection she must have!


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

oh yeah, bath and body works is very dangerous.... for your checking account anyways..i can never walk out of there without finding 3 new things to buy-__-(just like at the pet stores), but hey, ill smell good right!? Lol


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I'm terrible, I have gravel and ornaments for Bill that I could have shared with Ben after a good clean, but I still ended up walking out with all new things for Ben the other day, I still want more gravel to do Bills tank up when he's better and I still want a live plant, I figured I'd get one once Bill was better, I also wanted a tank mate like a snail or a tetra but I've since changed my mind I think I shouldn't lol. 

Smelling good is definitely better than smelling bad! lol


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Remember, Bill's tank is the one with the seeded media and Bill is still recovering from a bacterial infection. Personally, I'd hold off on using the media for a while, at minimum until Ben is mostly recovered form the stress of his move.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Wait I thought I was just cutting the new tanks filter which is also new purchased yesterday.
and Bills tank was being left completely alone?


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

To seed, you'd be cutting 1/3 from Bill's filter and adding it to the new filter in Ben's tank (just refill the amount you cut from Bill's filter with new media). This would cycle the new filter.

I'm a huge proponent of the bucket cycle if you don't use seeded media, that way you never have to worry about ammonia or nitrite spikes.


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## farmgirl82 (Jul 30, 2014)

Sorry that wasn't worded clearly.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh in that case I think I will leave it, and cross my fingers and hope for the best like I said, Bill did it a lot tougher when I just put him in his tank I knew nothing about cycling, where as Ben has ammolock, a good dose of stress coat and IAL, I'll do 25% water changes every 3 days and feed lightly. 

That's okay Farmgirl82 lol  It gets worked out in the end lol


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

Veloran said:


> Remember, Bill's tank is the one with the seeded media and Bill is still recovering from a bacterial infection. Personally, I'd hold off on using the media for a while, at minimum until Ben is mostly recovered form the stress of his move.


oh yes a VERY valid point!


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Would it be normal for him to not be very active for the first couple of days since the lady told me he'd been through 2 or 3 quarantines so he was definitely shaken from those and then shoved in a glass jar with no where to hide? He's resting at the top of the tank on silk plant leaves even though I've placed an igloo thing for him to go in as Bill loves to sleep in his ornament thing lol


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Dis regard that last post by me, he was out this morning swimming around, he's active but seems wary I guess it's fair enough he's gone through so much in the last couple of days! I'm still trying to find out what breed he is :S

I thought I'd share a couple of flare photos too, as well as a "grump" photo  

My mums encouraging me to buy two more tanks of a lady on this selling site we have here in Aus called Gumtree so I can get more fish.. lol which is quite surprising for me since she wasn't happy about me having 2 heaters and 2 filters hooked up using god forbid *more* power, and if I do get the tanks and more fish, I think I'll set the tanks up first for a couple of days maybe lol anyway, pictures..


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

awe! that last pic is adorable!


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## theroadbetta (Sep 30, 2014)

it all depends I don't rilly know I have never come across a question like that but all I have to say is maybe since one of the products made the tank cycle faster that's exactly what happened


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Well I hope it's cycled and isn't harmful or harming him with high nitrites and nitrates, I'm going to do a 25% clean for both of my fish tanks tonight, but I'm thinking I might quarantine my other fish Bill since his patch on his side isn't healing as fast as I'd like it too, and he has black fuzzies on his fin spines that are eating them away. 
I'm thinking of taking some water from his tank he is in now and putting it into a smaller tank I have and making daily water changes since it's a 3L tank (0.80 gallons) I don't have a filter for it but I do have a heater. I'm thinking of keeping his water clean, an Indian Almond leaf, PH at a stable 7.0, and using aquarium salt only no other treatments and I'm going to try that for a week. I'll keep his 20L tank on with filter and heater to keep the cycle going while he's "away"


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

It's normal for new fish to act like that when they're first transferred, some go exploring immediately, some just sit an pout, as long as they're out and about in 24 hrs, you're fine.
Also, it's hardly likely that your tank cycled in a couple days, so just follow everyone's advice about getting it cycled.

If Bill's fins are deteriorating further, I'd post a pic in your disease thread, Taeanna might be able to recommend some stronger meds that would be available to you if needed, I've no clue what's available in Australia.

That last picture is a keeper.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh that's good then! he was definitely active this morning and that's how I got those 3 photos  
Okay I will!  

I've put basically what I just said then in the disease thread, there is still fin spines I'd class the damage to his fins out of 100 about 30 to 40% badly damaged.  

I just love his blue eye! nawh


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