# ADF & Ghost shrimp, numbers and mixing?



## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Ok, so we have 4 five gallon tanks. 1 with an ADF tank mate, another with a ghost shrimp.

We've decided the dragon spade tail is much to aggressive for a tank mate (seriously... this guy is the very reason they are called fightin fish)

But I still am going back and forth about my new guy, Soren.

So, in regards to soren....

How many ADF can be kept with a betta in a 5 gallon tank?
How many Ghost shrimp can be kept with a betta in a 5 gallon tank? (not together with ADFs)

And in regards to my daughter's betta, Shisu.... 
he has to stay with Will the Ghost shrimp because the spade tail kept attacking him. But she has been begging and begging me for a girl frog, because she wants to name her "lorelei" (after the frog I had to find a new home for).

Can 1 ADF and 1 Ghost shrimp share a 5 gallon with a betta. I'm more refering to how the frog and shrimp will get along with each other. I have kept them in tanks, but never together.

Thank you :-D


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## Briz (Mar 22, 2013)

I recently researched all about this since I was putting ghost shrimp and ADFs for the first time and wanted to put them together.

I think you'd be safer with 1 ADF + betta for 5 gallons. 2 ADFs + betta might be pushing the bioload.

Not sure about the number of ghost shrimp for betta. Probably not more than 5, as adult ghost shrimp can get aggressive towards other ghost shrimp without enough space. And the ghost shrimp need hiding places from the betta.

Ghost shrimp and ADFs will get along fine. I observed my ADF nipping at a ghost shrimp once when he was hungry, but the ghost shrimp was fast and didn't get injured. The ADF ignored the shrimp besides that one instance.


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Briz said:


> I recently researched all about this since I was putting ghost shrimp and ADFs for the first time and wanted to put them together.
> 
> I think you'd be safer with 1 ADF + betta for 5 gallons. 2 ADFs + betta might be pushing the bioload.
> 
> ...


ADFs let off less waste than a fish, so their bioload is not so great and can afford more body per gallon, just not sure how much. They also are social so should be in at least 2, but I wasn't sure if 3 was pushing it or not (growing up, we always had 2 with 1 betta in a 1.6-2 gallon. But I was a kid, and mom didn't bother researching anything to know that it was too much. They still lived a long time and got along fine... but it wasn't ideal). 

My older ADF is the loner in her tank with the betta because the other one that was in there just didn't get along with her tank mates and had to get rehomed.

I decided to go ahead and get the 2 ADF for this tank. I'm going to wait to see if I want to get more ghost shrimp or an ADF for my other tank. My daughter just won't stop begging for her girl frog :lol: But my husband wants me to wait until her birthday, in the end of July.

I'm fairly certain the 2 ADFs I got today are a male and a female.

So 1 ADF and 1 ghost shrimp might work out? I'll have to wait anyway, but it's nice to know if that option is there or not 

Thanks for the advice! <3


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## Briz (Mar 22, 2013)

You might want to get a couple ghost shrimp... they are really fragile and likely some will die unless the water is simply perfect. Some are more hardy than others. 

ADFs will certainly be more interactive with other ADF companions, but they are fine alone, but you seem to know that as you have a loner one!

Besides the bioload, you also have to consider if the ADFs would have enough room or would feel crowded.

Overall, I think 2 ADFs and the Betta will be just fine. Just things to consider if it ends up not working out!


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Briz said:


> You might want to get a couple ghost shrimp... they are really fragile and likely some will die unless the water is simply perfect. Some are more hardy than others.
> 
> ADFs will certainly be more interactive with other ADF companions, but they are fine alone, but you seem to know that as you have a loner one!
> 
> ...


They have plenty of places to hide, and each one seems to already have picked out a space of his/her own :lol: There is a large jade lean-to cave that the female claimed, and a very very small one that the male claimed on the other side of the tank (hmm... they sound like people! hahaha)

I just released them into the tank about 15 minutes ago. I took pictures while they cooperated and opened their arms. I'm positive 1 is a male, and fairly certain the other is a female. Just... her tail nub is smaller than I've seen in other females, so I'm also not 100% sold on it either. I guess I'll have to wait until they grow up. Until then, their names are Gylphie and Digger. 

When I went to get them, I asked the guy for the 2 most relaxed ones (some were going up and down trying to dig at the glass) He got these 2 laying on top of each other. I'm hoping that means they like each other? (as friends *cough* not ready to be a grandma to a bunch of tadpoles! haha)


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## Raincloud (Apr 10, 2013)

I have been thinking about tank mates too. I am glad to hear it worked out well for you! I have a 5.5 tank and wanted one ADF and a couple a ghost shrimp with my male betta, based on what I read here it seems fine  What do you think about snails? I guess they would definitely be pushing the bioload?


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Raincloud said:


> I have been thinking about tank mates too. I am glad to hear it worked out well for you! I have a 5.5 tank and wanted one ADF and a couple a ghost shrimp with my male betta, based on what I read here it seems fine  What do you think about snails? I guess they would definitely be pushing the bioload?


I don't have snails or know too much about them, but different aquatic creatures give very different bioloads. So the 1 gallon per inch of fish isn't necessarily the same with shrimp and other creatures. But be carefulf one thing, if you don't want snail babies... some snails can reproduce without mating :shock: I was going to get a ramshorn snail until I found that out :lol: then again... having a male and female frog in the same tank can also make me an aquatic grandma :-? lol

oh, if you get a male frog you might hear his singing too as he gets older, if that interests you n.n 

I'd imagine 1 betta, 1 frog and a few shrimp, or 2 frogs and no shrimp would be maximum stocking unless you have a planted tank. 

I got 2 frogs for Soren's tank, and I decided that IF I can ever find a cherry shrimp, I'm going to get one for Shisu's tank for my daughter since there's already a shrimp in that tank. They just seem to be hard to find around here :-?


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## Raincloud (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks for the advice! I was leaning towards the ADF and shrimp anyways... I don't think I am ready for self-breeding snails o.o BTW, what do you feed your tankmates? (sorry for the questions, I don't trust petstore employees anymore)


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Raincloud said:


> Thanks for the advice! I was leaning towards the ADF and shrimp anyways... I don't think I am ready for self-breeding snails o.o BTW, what do you feed your tankmates? (sorry for the questions, I don't trust petstore employees anymore)


lol, no one should trust their petstore employees unless they know for a fact that the employee is actually knowledgable :lol:

My frogs eat frog and tadpole bites. They sink to the bottom of the tank so that the betta can't hog their food... at least... most bettas (my hubby's that isn't getting a tank mate is not afraid to search the bottom for food :shock

They also love freeze dried blood worms 

You have to keep in mind that some frogs are pickier eaters and will not eat anything that isn't squirming about (they have poor eye site, and can't see things well that aren't moving). I had to do that the first couple of weeks with Delilah, but not anymore. My new couple never gave me that problem.

If you get a frog that doesn't want to eat the bites or freeze dried blood worms (as they have to swim to the surface to eat those, which could create tension with the betta) then you need to get frozen blood worms and use a pair or long aquarium tweezers to dangle it in front of the frog. Some people have to feed their frogs like this regularly. It depends on their froggy's preferences.

The shrimp are awesome because they just scavange on anything your betta doesn't eat. They pretty much spend most of their time walking around picking at the gravel and plants. Frogs also will nab up any betta bites that make it to the bottom of the tank. Since I got tank mates for my bettas, I've found vacumming the gravel sooo much easier as they rarely leave extra bits of food around.


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## Raincloud (Apr 10, 2013)

I have to admit, I found it rather upsetting to find out that the pet store employees aren't always...ever...right...I believed them for years!

Thanks again for the advice. One last question :3 How long did you quarantine them for before adding them with your betta?


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

Raincloud said:


> I have to admit, I found it rather upsetting to find out that the pet store employees aren't always...ever...right...I believed them for years!
> 
> Thanks again for the advice. One last question :3 How long did you quarantine them for before adding them with your betta?


Our house is freezing and I have no way to heat their water other than to put them in the tank, so I just let them a few hours out of the tank, then a few hours in the tank in their bags before I release them (to give the betta a chance to get used to them and bored of them so they don't get attacked when I release them)

But they should probably be quarantined for at least a few days or more


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## Raincloud (Apr 10, 2013)

Don't feel bad, before I never quarantined any of my fish  I just acclimated them to the water. I just wanted to make sure I didn't make some silly mistake...to be honest I don't think I would be able to pick out any problem signs with them anyways XP


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

There used to be a fairly extensive care guide about ADFs in this section. From what I remember, 5 gallons isn't a great home for ADFs. especially more than one with a betta. They aren't fish so the (untrue) rule of inch per fish shouldn't really apply to them imo. 

Also it was recommended that ADFs were quarantined for several months because they're ver susceptible to a disease (i believe its called Chytrid? Don't remember) that being housed with african clawed frogs can cause them to contract.

i promise i didn't come to be all mean or to scare and discourage though! I'm pretty interested in these little guys too. i had one die.less than a week after i bought him and put him in an unplanted 5gallon with my betta. I felt bad but I kind lf think he may have been sick already. i guess i have no way to know.

it definitely sounds like you are doing well with them though. maybe if you're interested try digging the ADF guide up 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JadeAngel (Jul 31, 2012)

djembekah said:


> There used to be a fairly extensive care guide about ADFs in this section. From what I remember, 5 gallons isn't a great home for ADFs. especially more than one with a betta. They aren't fish so the (untrue) rule of inch per fish shouldn't really apply to them imo.
> 
> Also it was recommended that ADFs were quarantined for several months because they're ver susceptible to a disease (i believe its called Chytrid? Don't remember) that being housed with african clawed frogs can cause them to contract.
> 
> ...



No discouragement here  I've had african dwarf frogs for over a decade save for when I lived abroad. I know they're supposed to be quarantined (never heard of quarantining for that long of a time though) I'll admit I'm just bad about that part as I get too concerned because my house basically is a fridge (the house is 130 years old with little to no insulation and we have very harsh winter weather here)

I'm sure a 10 gallon would be more ideal, but the size won't determine their life span. I never had an ADF die before 2 years old, and when I was younger my mother always kept 2 in a 1.6 gallon hexagonal tank with a betta (mom never did any research or listened to advice) I think she went through 6 frogs before she moved and decided to stop keeping them. One of them lived almost to 4 years.

And you're right, it's chytrid that they get from being housed with ACFs. 

Shrimps are my lesser experience, as these guys were my first, and one died the night after we got it (that one had jumped out of the employees hands and landed on the floor, so I don't doub it was already hurt or ill) but my other guy has been going strong for months... and feisty too.

That's what I mean with the bioloads. Even the 1 gallon per inch (which is to say minimum, not max... most people don't get that) doesn't count with all fish. Goldfish have a very high bioload and need a much larger tank than that ratio would permit. ADFs general rule is 1 gallon per frog, but 2 gallons would be better, and others argue 5 gallons per frog minimum. The argument of size is based on their bioload rather than need for space as they spend most of their time huddled and hiding, or just searching for food, so regular water changes and quality water would make 1 gallon per frog ok 

Then shrimp have an very low bioload next to a tetra of the same size also. Though... it would be great to have some guides in this forum for betta friendly tank mates like snails, ADFs, and shrimp.

Maybe you could get together some experienced members to make some guides? That certainly would help people who are posting here for advice  Like all the basics... food... tank size... needed water parameters, ph, temperatures, etc. Their social habits, likely illnesses, etc. 

You have a good idea, maybe you can work soemthing out


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## Raincloud (Apr 10, 2013)

What are the symptoms of chytrid that I can look for while quarantined? Or is it simply that they will be sick or died  Does this frog disease effect bettas? And in general what should I look for when picking out an ADF? Or ghost shrimp if you know?


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