# Tankmates for a 5 gallon?



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

My five gallon *not* naturally planted tank (has live plants, but also has several silk) is in the process of a fish-in cycle. After it is complete and stable, I would really like to add either a small shoal of neon tetras or a couple cherry shrimp. Thoughts? Other ideas? I have tried Nerite snails in the past with very little luck (different tank, different fish.)


----------



## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Neon tetra need a much longer tank than a 5g for swim room and may nip betta fins. Don't try to add them to such a small tank. Do not try the common lfs fish in the 5g, most need 20g and larger tanks (and are mis-sold as ok in a 10g). Some nano fish species can be kept with betta in that size tank but then there is the chance of the betta being aggressive to the smaller fish, and/or out competing them for food.. A lot of the nano fish are also very particular about water quality (no ammonia or nitrite, and very very low nitrate) and certain pH, hardness, and temp levelss.. not all species will be compatible with your water. Do you know your water's pH? Don't sue test strips btw they are unreliable, get a liquid test kit.

Shrimp are extremely sensitive to water parameters (again no ammonia or nitrite, low nitrates) and likely to be hunted by bettas. They do best in DENSELY planted tanks (more places to hide from predator) that are cycled and well established for several months before introduce shrimp (to let their natural food source grow).

IMO I'd leave it a betta only tank, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1. 

if you wanted you could add one nerite snail. But do a lot of research. Nerites are extremely messy (just like all other snails) and only eat algae so you must have a good amount of algae in the tank at all times or you have to grow it yourself and add it to the tank. 

A 5 gallon tank is still very small. I really don't think you should add tank mates to any tank that is under 10 gallons.


----------



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

I'm not personally a fan of Nerites... been there, done that. Thanks for the idea, though. The thing is I'm currently keeping a cycled, 5.5 gallon divided tank with two males. It was kind of an accidental cycle, but that's beside the point. It has lots of live plants and LOTS of cover, and has been fine for the past two months. Wouldn't the bioload of a cherry shrimp or a ghost shrimp and a male betta be less than that?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Pictures would help. Plants aren't the only thing inverts need. And Ember Tetra are about the only fish I would add to a five gallon.


----------



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

I can post a picture of the 5 gallon how it is right now if you like, but it's not how I plan on keeping it. Eventually I want to get more live plants in there (I'm growing up 8 baby java ferns in my divided right now) and I am picking up some Amazon Frogbit and another floater from a friend tomorrow for the 5 gallon. At the moment the five gallon only has one background, midground, and foreground silk plant, a rather large moss ball, and a hide. I wouldn't even think of adding tankmates until I get the 5 gallon how I want it. I've decided I'd much rather go with a variety of shrimp (cherry or ghost) instead of another fish. Do you think that would be doable? I have seen another member of the forum keep a female betta and a single ghost shrimp successfully in a 3 gallon cycled.
Here's a picture of my 5.5 divided, which has a pretty even mixture of silk and live. (3 aneubis (2 floaters, one anchored), 8 baby java ferns, one background silk plant and one midground) Since I'm still growing up the java ferns and my biggest aneubis had a die-off of the larger leaves when I moved it into the 5.5 from a different tank, I need the cover of silk for now. I had to lower the water level slightly to make the filter that's gentle enough work for the tank. Eventually I'd love it all NPT. My goal for the 5 gallon is to have it look similar in plantage to my 5.5.
Please ignore Watson's (MG) finnage- he has always trimmed his caudal fin ever since I got him because of its length. He bit before being in a divided tank as well. I almost wish Hamish (royal blue DT) would trim because I'm getting sick of seeing him be literally dragged down by his finnage. Hence, lots of resting places.


----------



## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

wait your 5 gallon is divided? 

in that case you cannot add any tank mates at all. You are already at your tank's capacity. 

another side note - I don't recommend dividing any tank under 10 gallons. After you add the gravel, filter, heater, decor into the tank your fish are not left with that much water - maybe 1.5-2 gallons at the very most. If you can I recommend separating them.


----------



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

No, as stated in my previous reply my 5.5 gallon is my divided tank. I want to add tankmates if possible to my 5 gallon which is staying UNdivided, which I do not have completed yet. It is a work in progress, which is why I didn't post a picture of it. I want my 5 gallon to LOOK like my 5.5 gallon, which is why I posted a picture of it; to give you an idea of what the 5 gallon will look like in the future. Do note that the water line is a bit lower than it normally is in the photo because the picture was taken just before a PWC and I had lost some water due to evaporation. I wouldn't even entertain the notion of adding tankmates to a divided 5.5. Sorry for any confusion.
Thank you for your concern on my 5.5 gallon, but a lot of forethought went into that tank. I planned it out a couple months in advance, and it holds on average 4.5 gallons of water with substrate. I use a gallon pitcher to measure out water in all of my tanks. The live and artificial plants I have in there don't displace any significant amount of water; just the gravel does. My 2.5 gallon tanks on a good day hold 2 gallons of water because of substrates and decor, so in reality the two fish in my divided 5.5 have the same if not slightly more water than if they were in their own 2.5 gallon tanks. Also, I have noticed changes in behavior for the better in both of my fish when they were put in the divided tank. When Hamish was in his own tank, due to his finnage he barely left the bottom of his tank despite being perfectly healthy. Now, because he *occasionally* sees another fish on the other side of the divider (and I say occasionally because I'm allowing algae to grow on the divider, blocking the small holes in the mesh to a degree) he actually explores his half of the tank and moves around. Watson, the other fish, has had an increase in activity level as well, and likes the greater cover of the divided tank.
Also, I monitor water quality like a hawk (ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates) and perform weekly 50% changes with a gravel vac to remove waste. If I feel it's necessary I also dose Prime between PWC's. The tank is cycled, filtered, and heated.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Forgot to ask: Will there be a Betta in the five gallon? Thanks!


----------



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

Yes, my EE HMPK is living in the 5 gallon. 
If it's too much of a stretch to add a tankmate, I'm ok with that. I was thinking nothing more than a cherry shrimp. My school's 20G has one, and it's so much fun to watch! Can cherry shrimp live alone or do they need to be in groups? Thanks!
My 5 gallon is still cycling, and wouldn't be stable enough for an invert for at least a few months. I'm not going to put anything in there (aside from my HMPK, who is helping the cycle along) until the tank is ready; this thread was meant as a 'what if' type thing for the future.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

A single betta with a snail or two is the only thing you can have in a 5 gallon tank.


----------



## BettaFire682 (Apr 27, 2015)

Cory Catfish, loaches, African dwarf frogs, mystery snails, ghost shrimp, sucker fish


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

BettaFire682 said:


> Cory Catfish, loaches, African dwarf frogs, mystery snails, ghost shrimp, sucker fish


There are no loaches that will fit in a 5 gallon tank. There are no catfish you can put in a 5 gallon tank. Even dwarf cory need at minimum a 15 gallon tank, and they must be in groups of no less than 5 to 6.


----------



## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1 in a five gallon you can only have a betta and a snail. 5 gallons is still very small.


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

On a related note, has anyone had luck with zebra danios? I have a friend who is over animal care at an aquarium and he mentioned them as a possible tankmate for my 10 gallon...
Also, for RussellThe****zu- I cannot find a link on the website for posting a new thread. I have looked and looked and emailed the moderators twice and have been waiting for several weeks for a reply. I am sorry to insert this question into this thread but I can't think of another way to get the info. I noticed your info. says TGK Moderator so I am hoping you can assist me. Thank you.


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

Apparently the website thought I was trying to type another word when I tried to type in Russell's username. LOL. Really, not trying to swear on this forum.


----------



## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

go into whatever section on the forum you want to post in.
on the left side. above where it says "Threads in Forum:"
you'll see a button that says new thread.


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

OK, I see that now. Thanks so much VivanKJean! I appreciate the help.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

In my 5.5 Betta tanks I have either Habrosus Cories or Dwarf Crays. I've come to conclude it is best to have bottom dwellers as a Betta's introduction to tank mates. They don't "invade" a Betta's territory and are more likely to lead to success. Like I said, if you don't want bottom dwellers then Ember Tetra are nice and small and quiet. You can have 5-6 of the Embers or the Habrosus. For the Crays I would put three. There are other fish that do well in small tanks (it's why they're called "Nano" and "Micro") but they are for more advanced aquarists.

Unless you have lots of live plants shrimp won't do so well. And without at a very minimum 10-15 you won't see much natural behavior. Nothing says they can't live alone but I've found they are more more active with lots of others for "support." However, I would not subject shrimp of any sort to a five gallon with a Betta.

All of this depends on the filtration you have. A five gallon is bigger than most people think. I see a huge difference in my Bettas' behavior when they have some sort of tank mate.

As Mousie said, you cannot have loaches or "sucker" fish (Plecostomus) in a five gallon. I'm torn on African Dwarf Frogs as they really need a minimum of three but two is okay. Never, ever get just one as it is unfair to the ADF.


----------



## hannat (Oct 9, 2014)

That's really helpful Russell, thanks! I'll probably give either the Dwarf Crays or Ember Tetras a try. Again, I'm not planning on adding tankmates for at least a few months, but I'm trying to get as much information as possible before doing so. Thanks!


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

Any thoughts from anyone on this thread about Zebra Danios as possible tankmates? I've got a 10 gallon and am debating those or ember tetras.


----------



## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Betta44 said:


> Any thoughts from anyone on this thread about Zebra Danios as possible tankmates? I've got a 10 gallon and am debating those or ember tetras.


Zebra danios need 20 gallons minimum due to their extremely high activity level.


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

OK, good to know. Thanks SplashyBetta.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

Zebra Danio do just fine in a 10 gallon aquarium. I have a group of 7 longfins in mine.

Requirements can be found on aquatic veterinarian site Foster & Smith here.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I personally disagree that they are a suitable fish for a 10 gallon tank. They may do fine, but a lot of fish do fine in less than ideal conditions. However, you only have to look at display tank full of zebra danio in a fish store to see that these are a particularly active species. 

SeriouslyFish, which I think is one of, if not the best, resource site for fish, has the minimum tank size for zebra danios as 3ft. 

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/danio-rerio/


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

I've had this disagreement before about that site. I'll trust the vets regarding tank size over someones personal web site containing anecdotal information. The OP now has the info for both and can make his own informed decision.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Unfortunately, F&S/Liveaquaria is owned by vets but not contributed to by them. They still show African Clawed Frogs in their ADF listing.....despite numerous requests to change it. The last email was they were only photos of ADF. :frustrated:

Note eye placement on the "blonde."

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=1075+2945&pcatid=2945


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

What I don't understand with that site, is why zebra danio require a minimum of only 10 gallons and clown killifish that are a much smaller species, and not especially active, require a minimum of 20 gallons? 

That would suggest to me that perhaps this site also has its failings. But as you have said, it's up to Betta44 to make up their own mind in regards to what is acceptable and what is not.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Unfortunately, F&S/Liveaquaria is owned by vets but not contributed to by them. They still show African Clawed Frogs in their ADF listing.....despite numerous requests to change it. The last email was they were only photos of ADF. :frustrated:
> 
> Note eye placement on the "blonde."
> 
> http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=1075+2945&pcatid=2945



I know. This is an obvious error by their web design company... that's who you need to contact. It will fall on def ears otherwise.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Web design said they can only go by what is sent and LA sent them those photos labeled as ADF. Liveaquaria insists they did their research and do not see why I say the blonde is an ACF....even though I sent them side-by-side photos clearly showing the difference. They ran it by one of their "experts" and he contacted me insisting it's an ADF.

They also recommend freeze dried foods which is a major no-no for aquatic frogs as it will definitely bloat them. :frustrated:

They have lots of good information and I do read it; but I trust Seriously Fish over Live Aquaria.

FWIW, this is the list of references Seriously Fish used for their Zebra Danio profile:

*References*
*Hamilton*, F., 1822 - Edinburgh & London: i-vii + 1-405, Pls. 1-39
An account of the fishes found in the river Ganges and its branches.

*C. Michel, S. *Messiaen, and J-F. Bernardet, 2002 - Journal of Fish Diseases: 253-263
Muscle infections in imported neon tetra, Paracheirodon innesi Myers: limited occurrence of microsporidia and predominance of severe forms of columnaris disease caused by an Asian genomovar of Flavobacterium columnare.

*Conway,* K. W., W.-J. Chen and R. L. Mayden, 2008 - Zootaxa 1686: 1-28
The 'Celestial Pearl danio' is a miniature Danio (s.s) (Ostariophysi: Cyprinidae): evidence from morphology and molecules.

*Dahanukar*, R., R. Raut and A. Bhat, 2004 - Journal of Biogeography 31(1): 123-136
Distribution, endemism and threat status of freshwater fishes in the Western Ghats of India.

*Engeszer,* R. E., L. B. Patterson, A. A. Rao and D. M. Parichy, 2007 - Zebrafish 4(1): 21-40
Zebrafish in the wild: a review of natural history and new notes from the field.

*Fang*, F., 2003 - Copeia 2003(4): 714-728
Phylogenetic Analysis of the Asian Cyprinid Genus Danio (Teleostei, Cyprinidae).

*Fang*, F., M. Norén, T. Y. Liao, M. Källersjö and S. O. Kullander, 2009 - Zoologica Scripta 38(1): 1-20
Molecular phylogenetic interrelationships of the south Asian cyprinid genera Danio, Devario and Microrasbora (Teleostei, Cyprinidae, Danioninae).

*Kottelat,* M., 2013 - The Raffles Bulletin of Zoology Supplement 27: 1-663
The fishes of the inland waters of southeast Asia: a catalogue and core bibiography of the fishes known to occur in freshwaters, mangroves and estuaries.

*Kullander,* S. O. and F. Fang, 2009 - Zootaxa 2164: 41-48
Danio aesculapii, a new species of danio from south-western Myanmar (Teleostei: Cyprinidae).

*Kullander,* S. O., T. Y. Liao, and F. Fang, 2009 - Ichthyological Exploration of Freshwaters 20(3): 193-199
Danio quagga, a new species of striped danio from western Myanmar (Teleostei: Cyprinidae).

*Matthews* J.L., A. M. Brown, K. Larison, J. K. Bishop-Stewart, P. Rogers, and M. L. Kent, 2001 - Journal of Eukaryotic Microbiology 48(2): 227-233
Pseudoloma neurophilia n. g., n. sp., a New Microsporidium from the Central Nervous System of the Zebrafish (Danio rerio).

*Mayden,* R. L., K. L. Tang, K. W. Conway, J. Freyhof, S. Chamberlain, M. Haskins, L. Schneider, M. Sudkamp, R. M. Wood, M. Agnew, A. Bufalino, Z. Sulaiman, M. Miya, K. Saitoh, S. He, 2007 - Journal of Experimental Zoology, Molecular Development and Evolution 308B: 642–654
Phylogenetic relationships of Danio within the order Cypriniformes: a framework for comparative and evolutionary studies of a model species.

*Meinken, H*., 1963 - Monatsschrift für Ornithologie und Vivarienkunde 42: 39-43
Mitteilungen der Fischbestimmungsstelle des VDA XLII: Brachydanio frankei spec. nov., der Leopard-Danio.

*Rema* Devi, K., and T. J. Indra, 2003 - Zoos' Print Journal 18(4): 1067-1070
An updated checklist of ichthyofauna of Eastern Ghats.

*Roberts*, T. R., 2007 - Raffles Bulletin of Zoology 55 (1): 131-140
The 'Celestial Pearl Danio', a new genus and species of colourful minute cyprinid fish from Myanmar (Pisces: Cypriniformes).

*Spence,* R., G. Gerlach, C. Lawrence, and C. Smith, 2008 - Biological Reviews 83(1): 13-34
The behaviour and ecology of the zebrafish, Danio rerio.

*Spence*, R., M. K. Fatema, M. Reichard, K. A. Huq, M. W. Wahab, Z. F. Ahmed and C. Smith, 2006 - Journal of Fish Biology 69(5): 1435-1448
The distribution and habitat preferences of the zebrafish in Bangladesh.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

How did you get their web design company contact (and who are they)? I thought it would be listed at the bottom of their page, but I just looked and it's not. I even checked the CSS file source and it's been left out.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Contacted F&S. They gave me a phone number. BTW, it was more than two years ago.

I edited that post.


----------



## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

I will never trust F&S's care info without triple-checking it with other reliable sources. To be honest, I at least double check ALL care sites with other sites to see if they match up. I would never rely on a single website for the end-all of information. 
I don't care if F&S is run by vets. They have proven themselves to be an unreliable source for proper animal care. I'm not going to trust a website for any pet advice that sells yogurt drops and seed treats for rabbits and guinea pigs. Vets aren't always right.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

I think it's more about people just using the sites that give them the information they want to hear. I've done business with F&S for a long time and had quite a few phone consults with their techs in regards to sick fish. I've not had a single issue with them. Ever. Anyone can find fault with any site for any reason if they look hard enough.

http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/busine...l/drs-foster-smith-in-rhinelander-wi-24002163

http://www.bizrate.com/reviews/drs.-foster---smith/55089/


----------



## Betta44 (Aug 9, 2015)

Wow, I think I started quite the debate! I have a friend who is over animal care at an AZA endorsed aquarium who suggested Zebra Danios for my 10 gallon. But, like some others have mentioned, I like to cross check my info and I know there are many experienced Betta owners on this forum with good, real life experiences that can give me practical advice and info. 
I'll look into this issue more closely. Ember tetras are still top of my list for potential tank mates but I like the look of the zebras. That being said, you have to do what's right for the fish.
Thanks everyone.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

PS: I love, love, love F&S products (and so do my dogs and horses).  I've been buying from them almost since their establishment.

They're in the business to make money so I cannot fault them for selling products the customers demand. Selling and recommending are two different things, IMO. However, I agree with Splashy, never go with just what one site says. I go with Seriously Fish more than others because they usually cite references in their fish profiles (as noted in my post on Page 3).


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> They're in the business to make money so I cannot fault them for selling products the customers demand. Selling and recommending are two different things, IMO. However, I agree with Splashy, never go with just what one site says. I go with Seriously Fish more than others because they usually cite references in their fish profiles (as noted in my post on Page 3).


My annoyance is this; every time I reference them for tank size, the same people feel the need to come behind me and slander the company or point out a single photo they have a problem with. The wrong photo is one thing, but if someone is going to slander another highly accredited business, they need to have a legal leg to stand on showing proof of malicious intent.

Slandering a company that I've (and millions of others) had nothing but good business dealings with does nothing when attempting to sway me to believe this other site is better. That's similar to throwing rocks at me while screaming in my face "look, this site is better because....". At one point I would of been more than happy to learn why that site might be better than the sites I currently use for tank size, but at this point the way it was done, no. I'm not at all inclined to listen. It's just not how you talk to people when you want them to see your point of view.


----------



## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

Disagreeing and pointing out flaws =/= slander.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

No one was slandering them. Besides, I believe it's libel if the comments are written and not spoken. 

SeriouslyFish is an extremely useful resource. I think it's a shame that you are going to disregard it simply because some of the information on it, runs contrary to your own personal beliefs.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

LittleBettaFish said:


> simply because some of the information on it, runs contrary to your own personal beliefs.


That's not the reason. Based on your reply, it feels like you completely ignored the reason that I stated.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

> I'll trust the vets regarding tank size over someones personal web site containing anecdotal information.


Your response to my original post about SeriouslyFish was IMO just as denigrating as what anyone in this thread has said about Foster and Smith. 

As RussellTheShihTzu has said, SeriouslyFish does at least provide a list of references under the bottom of each profile so their information is not as anecdotal as your comment might suggest. 

I really didn't think anything on this thread could be construed us 'throwing rocks in your face and screaming' that SeriouslyFish was better. You made it seem that SeriouslyFish was a completely useless resource, and of course there are going to be people on this forum who disagree with that sentiment.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Lest anyone misunderstand, I mean selling a product and recommending that product are two different things. I didn't mean selling products and recommending/advising on tank size.

It should be noted that www.liveaquaria.com recommends 10 gallons as the _minimum_ tank size while Seriously Fish and other sites give _suggested_ sizes.


----------



## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Lest anyone misunderstand, I mean selling a product and recommending that product are two different things


Yes! At my work we have sad "betta tanks" gathering dust on a back shelf and will occasionally ship one out on the website, but if anyone comes in asking for advice I say "you absolutely don't want that, there's a $1/gallon sale at Petco/smart going on right now, look what I did with mine". Sorry for the side rant  

What I've never understood about liveaquaria is they say otos should have a min 30 gallon tank size. What? They should give an explanation as to why, like activity, bioload, etc.


----------



## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

I think my biggest mistake here is allowing certain people (not you Russel, although I don't need anymore reminder about bad photos) to bait me. They tossed the bait, I fell for it. Happening twice should of been a clue for me. I've placed them on ignore so it will not happen again.

Apologies to the OP for allowing things to get this far off topic.


----------



## youbettarecognize (Aug 14, 2015)

hannat;I wouldn't even think of adding tankmates until I get the 5 gallon how I want it. I've decided I'd much rather go with a variety of shrimp (cherry or ghost) instead of another fish. Do you think that would be doable? I have seen another member of the forum keep a female betta and a single ghost shrimp successfully in a 3 gallon cycled.[/QUOTE said:


> IMO, If you want the ghost shrimp get the ghost/cherry shrimp. It sounds like that's what you really want and if they are the critters you want, go with your heart's desire. If you find out that your betta will not get along with the shrimp at least you tried. Of couuuurse, you want to listen to all of the other more experienced aquarists and follow their directions about having a densely packed tank etc.
> 
> It's been one week at least since I've had three ghost shrimp and a male betta. I moved them to a five gallon yesterday. They are Perfectly fine.
> No ammonia, nitritites/very low nitrates, KH/GH good.
> ...


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Mousie said:


> I think my biggest mistake here is allowing certain people (not you Russel, although I don't need anymore reminder about bad photos) to bait me. They tossed the bait, I fell for it. Happening twice should of been a clue for me. I've placed them on ignore so it will not happen again.
> 
> Apologies to the OP for allowing things to get this far off topic.


Sorry you think you're being baited. I don't see that. In the past others have posted the same feeling as you about www.liveaquaria.com and have received the same response....even the bit about photos. ;-) Which, BTW, I will continue to stress as they could well be selling ACF as ADF if they can't tell the difference. Scary.

When we post on this forum we are addressing more than the OP and another member. We are being read sometimes by over 1,000 lurkers so information/opinion/photo is often repeated.


----------

