# Fertilizer Help !



## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi everyone! 

I recently got quite a few low light plants for my soon to be Betta tank (I say soon to be because it's not cycled yet ) I will post pictures at some point because some of the plants are a bit ambiguous to me. 

The problem now is the fertilizers. What fertilizer do I get?! Everyone says Flourish by Seachem. What does this fertilizer look like? I visited my LFS and I saw a bunch of products with the name Flourish by Seachem and the only difference is one says Potassium the other says Iron, etc. Do I buy them all? Isn't there one fertilizer for all? 

I also hear about Excel. What is this? I'm also looking for some root tabs since all my plants are stem plants :O

I know I have a lot of questions so bare with me. I was also wondering what low light plants can I buy that would make the scape look more bushy and forest like and less stemmy.


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Umm...not sure if I made any sense in my previous post. Overall, my question is: What fertilizer should I get for my plants? Please indicated complete brand name so I know exactly what to look for in my LFS 

(Yes, this is a bump)


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I meant to respond to this the other day but forgot to so sorry about that.

Anyways, I use the Seachem range of fertilisers in my tanks. I have Flourish, Potassium, Nitrogen, Trace, Excel and Iron. I also dose ADA Brighty K (hasn't really done much for me to be honest) as well as an Australian-made less diluted version of the above fertilisers.

The big three macro fertilisers are NPK, which translate to Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphates. These usually need to be dosed, as there is not enough present in tap water to support plant growth. 

Probably one of the most important trace elements is iron, and you might have to dose this depending on your plant choices. Other trace elements are generally added during water changes, since most are present in tap water supplies.

I would recommend Seachem Flourish, Seachem Potassium, and Seachem Excel if you just want to have the basics. Seachem Excel is a carbon substitute; however, some plants can be sensitive to it and melt so you have to exercise some caution when using it. Also be careful not to overdose as it can kill your fish - if I recall correctly, it strips the oxygen from the water.

Seachem *Flourish* is a general fertiliser, which should provide enough nutrients for your plants as long as you're not running a high-light, high-tech set-up. It only needs dosing a few times a week. Seachem Flourish *Potassium *provides your plants with potassium, which I think helps in the uptake of nitrogen and phosphates, and encourages root growth.

My crypts go nuts for the Seachem brand root tabs. What I do is crush up a single tab with a hammer and bury the smaller sections close to the plant. When I've pulled up my long-suffering crypts, I've found the roots have literally grabbed onto the root tabs. In all instances where I have planted my crypts into root-tab rich substrate, I have lost maybe one or two leaves to melt.

Hopefully that helps a bit. I'm a semi plant noob. I like easy care and slow-growing plants.


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks for the clarifications LittleBettaFish! 

I have a pretty low tech setup. I will take your advice and get Flourish, Potassium and Excel. I do have a few questions though. 

You mentioned Iron is pretty important. Does Flourish supply Iron? (I'm assuming Flourish is a mixture of different nutrients; could be wrong) 

How long does a bottle of Flourish, Potassium, Excel last on average? 

Will I really need micronutrients? And also, I have Seachem Fluorite substrate, do I still have to get root tabs for my stem plants? 

Again thanks for the help


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I am totally going to just sit here and watch this thread. This is exactly what I am trying to do right now. 

Though I have a specific question about root tabs as well. I also have Seachem Fluorite substrate, but only 2 plant species: Anubias and Christmas moss. The Anubias is attached to a rock. Do I still need root tabs? If not, what should I be using to get maximum growth? 

Sorry for hijacking your thread Shaon. :notworthy:


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

No problem Kytkattin 

To answer your question about root tabs, I'm not entirely sure but I always assumed that they were to be put into the substrate to promote root growth within the substrate. Anubias and Christmas moss are water column plants (if that's what you call them o.o) in the sense that they don't grow roots into the substrate. 

My say is, is that root tabs will not help much for your 2 plants. For maximum growth, I think LittleBettaFish has a decent suggestion. Flourish by Seachem and other liquid fertilizers can help your moss and anubias  (I'm so jealous you have Christmas moss >.>)


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

> You mentioned Iron is pretty important. Does Flourish supply Iron? (I'm assuming Flourish is a mixture of different nutrients; could be wrong)
> 
> How long does a bottle of Flourish, Potassium, Excel last on average?


 I only dose iron when I have plants that consume a lot of it. These plants are usually floaters such as duckweed or Amazon frogbit. Seachem Flourish does provide trace amounts of iron, and this should be enough to supplement growth in most plants. 

You will find your fertilisers should last a long time, particularly, if your tank is 20 gallons or less and low tech. In this case, your dosage amounts are going to probably max out at 3ml or so. To dose a 10 gallon tank for example, I would use 0.8ml Seachem Flourish, 1ml Excel, 2.5ml Trace and 1.7ml Potassium. I use a 1ml syringe for dosing to avoid waste.



> Though I have a specific question about root tabs as well. I also have Seachem Fluorite substrate, but only 2 plant species: anubias and Christmas moss. The anubias is attached to a rock. Do I still need root tabs? If not, what should I be using to get maximum growth?


Simply dosing into the water column with Seachem Flourish should be enough, especially if you are only running low light. I wouldn’t dose Excel as moss can be sensitive to it, and none of your plants really require a source of carbon for growth.

If the roots of your anubias are growing down into the substrate, than root tabs can be used to boost growth and provide a good source of micronutrients. If the plant roots are growing primarily above the substrate, then I wouldn’t bother and you should be fine with water column dosing. 



> Will I really need micronutrients? And also, I have Seachem Fluorite substrate, do I still have to get root tabs for my stem plants?


Seachem Flourite is a basically inert substrate, but being clay-based, it has a high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). This means it is excellent at up taking nutrients, but these must already be present in the system through water column dosing or substrate fertilisation. It does seem to provide a good source of iron to root feeders, but I would probably recommend using root tabs to really get your plant root systems established.


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

All of the fertilizers are great suggestions, and they do last a long time. It will be costly up front, but after that it will last you what seems like forever and evens out a lot. 

Root tabs are more for sensitive plants, I use them for my crypts so they don't melt at the slightest movement. I use Flourish root tabs. Your plants probably wont need them unless they have trouble rooting.

If you have fertilizers, don't worry too much about root tabs. 

If you want fast, fast growth, keep low lighting, but switch to fluorescent lighting with a wide range spectrum. You could have 20watts total on a 10 gallon with this and it will add a LOT. C02 is very helpful, but it is not needed in low maintenance plants at all.

Hornwort gives a very 'bushy' feel, and I feel anacharis gives a great look, BUT they're highly sensitive to fertilizers. Hornwort 'sheds' a lot, but I love their look. I love lemon bacopa and moneywort (not pennywort) as well.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

For those like me who have trouble getting good fertilizers, I use API's root tabs with good results (comperable to Flourish, more or less), Aqueon Plant food (like it!) and I use Tetra's brand of liquid ferts for a heavy iron splash as well as potash (why not? LAWL)

I cant get raw chemicals or that great of ferts, but these guys together keep my medium light tank happy B:

Nice suggestions, LBF <3


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

sorry late chime in , 


i use FloraMax in my planted 10g.... its heavy planted, and seems to have worked wonderfully, ive got all kinds of growth...... and i dont use root tabs, unfortunately no where i could find sold them

for plant food i used FloraPride by Tetra ... once a month,


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

i should note, i use no CO2 , and dont plant on it in this tank, also i i have a 12hr on light cycle


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Another thing I have seen someone here do, is mix some blood and bone fertiliser into clay and use these as DIY root tabs. I'm not sure of the exact ratios, but I'm sure a quick google search should turn up something. I think blood and bone is slower release than something like Osmocote.

However, I wouldn't recommend adding terrestrial fertilisers to your tank unless you know what you are doing. 

I have found my crypts have really established themselves in one of my temporary tubs. I used propogating sand I picked up for about 5 bucks a bag at the hardware store. It is full of clay and supposedly, micronutrients, and is giving me good growth results with no root tabs used.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

roypattonphoto said:


> sorry late chime in ,
> 
> 
> i use FloraMax in my planted 10g.... its heavy planted, and seems to have worked wonderfully, ive got all kinds of growth...... and i dont use root tabs, unfortunately no where i could find sold them
> ...


THATS the name of what I use for iron! Lol!

It didnt do as much for my plants as other ferts have, but its got more iron than most. *shrug* Its pretty much only iron and potash, nothing else.


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

what plants are u using..


i got the 10g Low Light kit from AZGardens...im still amazed my jave ferns are still alive and healthy lol


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Java ferns, mosses, banana plants, anacharis, another fern I forget the name of, anubias, wisteria, dwarf hairgrass, amazon swords, and other things Im forgetting because Im too lazy to look D:


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

lol.. i never could keep anacharis alive, it lived for a week, then took a dive... i had a whole forest made up with strings and i think between the warm temp and the betta making them into a salad killed them off...i love my hair grass, 

id love to get some banana plants for my non planted tank seeing as i have a large bag of floramax in my closet still  i really like the lilly bulbs too, just takes over the top of my tank a bit...


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

So pretty thougghhh!
The banana plants might also give you tank cover issues... and they like soft water (if you have it), which is nice, at least for me 

I hear you on the anacharis. Its so fickle sometimes.


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Umm at this point, this may sound like a pretty ridiculous question but...is there a difference between plant fertilizer (Floramax, Flourish, etc.) and plant food (Florapride)?


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

yes


Fert, will provide up to a certain amount of time, to where as for the longevity and ongoing u need to continue to give them food


edit:

food given once a month or after every water change ....

ive gotten my water quality and changes down close to 2 months on my planted tank due to planted tank awesomeness


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Hmm I see. I plan on having a Betta and MAYBE some shrimps in the tank. By the time I get around to having them in the tank, the tank should be cycled (cycling is in progress now)

In such a case, I can't imagine having such few water changes. I was thinking a weekly water change of 30% would suffice. In that case, I guess I give plant food at every water change? I can also limit my fertilizer to once every two or four weeks?

Please let me know if I'm spewing nonsense


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

fair warning, i had ghost shrimp , thinking the betta would not see them. no such luck .. my betta went on a diet for a few days ....

nah no need for weekly ... if youre running a 10g , Filtered (I suggest a Marineland Bio-Wheel Penguin 100) and baffle it,.. your plants will provide alot of the filtration , and u should be good at 50% once a month ...



what fert are u talking about?


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

just so we're clear i use ZERO Fertilizer, i have FloraMax Soil, and drop my Plant food in once a month, and once after every water change


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

By ferts I mean Flourish and/or Potassium by Seachem. How often do I dose the tank with those? 

Is there an alternative to a monthly 50% water change? It's a lot of water to change and I don't want to mess up the tank too much. Can I just do smaller changes over a month? I have an Aquaclear 20 filter and it's sponge baffled. I'm worried that the stagnant water surface may lead to more waste in the tank. Just to be safe I plan to do weekly water tests once the tank is cycled just to make sure everything is okay at all times.


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

my plant food, contains iron and potassium in it, i dont have to does extra for it... so i couldnt tell u that, unless u have a special plant that requires extra of something, id not worry about it ....

also, u can do 10% weekly, but at some point, u will need to do a 100% , a 50% a month is perfect as it keeps some nutrients .. 

the way i do mine, i do a 100% water change at water change time, does not effect my plants, and my water is treated before going back into the tank and is at near temp of tank water when put into tank... so im not really freaked about disturbing the plants...

yes the still water surface will cause unsightly film, an can cause a smell, as far as waste i dont see foresee a issue.. might cause issue if u have a float plant, i always suggest some sort of surface flow, (reason i have water bottle cut in half and length of out put, cuts down tank current and gives just enough flow on surface


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Agh...I always thought a 100% was to be only done in case of an emergency. If I do the monthly 50% do I still have to do the 100%?

I was planning on doing a 70-80% once the cycle was finished and a 20-30% weekly from then on. I have a 15G tank and only intend to keep 1 Betta with maybe some shrimp. 

To clarify the fertilizer issue, why use fertilizer if plant food is sufficient? Can I completely replace one with the other? Example, I don't use fertilizer, instead I use plant food or no plant food and use fertilizer instead?

Or is it that I use fertilizer in the beginning when the plants are planted and use them occasionally if the nutrients are lacking in the tank?


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

nah i wouldnt worry about a 100% if u do 50% monthly , the way i do it, i change my filter about a week before the water change, that way my new filter can get some of the current nutrients and goodies in the water that will help the water change process more easy for the plants to handle (also i suggest doing this on half changes)

Fert Question, if im understanding your question correctly...

when u first put your soil in , u prob put a fertilizer tablet (or root tablets) in your soil right? .... after that, unless u replant u shouldnt have to put those back in there.... your plant food should be sufficient enough for your plants.. now again note, i never used those tablets, no one told me anythign about those until i randomly read something on plantedtank.net


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Ahh I see! It all makes sense now. Excuse my absent-mindedness. It's 5 in the morning and I haven't slept yet >.>

I planted my tank like 3 days ago and no I did not use any fertilizers. Like you I just read about them randomly lol. I was confusing fertilizers with plant food >.<

Is it too late to add fertilizers if I already planted my tank? Or is it not worth the hassle and I should just feed it plant food?


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

i wouldnt hassle with it personally, just keep an eye on the plants and watching for discoloration, holes and other anomalies , make sure your water temps are right, ive got all my tanks at 80*F and my bettas love it...

u can push a tab or 2 into the substrate go for it, but i wouldnt worry about it...


im currently researching my next projects...... im either going a 55g planted, or will be making a Mantis Vivarium


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## Shaon (Jun 27, 2011)

Gotcha, thanks for all your help RPP


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

no worries, good luck, 

just remember, dont freak out when your shrimp population starts to disappear! lol


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I did a little more research of my own on ferts vs plant food. Plant food is formulated as a chemical to be taken up easily by a plant, so it is taken up a lot faster. Whereas ferts are more organic, but they are absorbed more slowly by plants and the surrounding environments. I have yet to figure out if one is better than another...


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## roypattonphoto (Mar 19, 2011)

i honestly think its a personal preference thing


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