# Rarest Of Them All



## Darth

Ok folks, here is a shot of the Siamorientalis.
Only 2 people in the whole United Staes have these, myself and Setsuna.
Here is The Siamorientalis a.k.a The Black Imbellis!!


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## Darth

These were wild caught by Pibk Penang and sent some to Setsuna and I.
We may or may not be selling offspring there are things we need to 
discuss as of this writing.


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## JustinieBeanie

Very cool.


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## MattsBettas

If you don't sell them, what would you do with them? I imagine you would be charging quite a bit... Regardless, very nice fish!


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## homegrown terror

from what little i've heard, isn't this species incredibly rare in the wild and being overdriven by imbellis, splendens and imbellis/splendens hybrids in its wild habitat? if so you should definitely try to breed them as purely as possible in case they go extinct in the wild.


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## Darth

I have a correction to make, Pibk is from Malaysia so he didn't catch these but he has access to them.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Beautiful!


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## Catw0man

Darth said:


> Ok folks, here is a shot of the Siamorientalis.
> Only 2 people in the whole United Staes have these, myself and Setsuna.
> Here is The Siamorientalis a.k.a The Black Imbellis!!


Wow....amazing! So glad there are some of these beauties in the hands of experienced breeders like you.


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## Starchild21

Beautiful


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## logisticsguy

Just stunning! Good luck and glad breeders like you and Setsuna have these beauties! Pikb the wild man!


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## Myates

Very nice.. I would maybe get in contact with Gerald and see about adding these to his program he has with another endangered species- Betta sp. Mahachai. People breed them to help establish a good population for enthusiasts to try to avoid so many being taken from the wild. Maybe you and Setsuna could start a program similar, or work together with him to help start up a good breeding base from your guys' fish.

I would be interested in helping the population like with the Mahachai - hoping this summer when the program restarts up to get a pair to breed, giving all the fry to the program that will give them to other breeders. I would be interested in helping this species too if given the chance. 

Good luck!


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## Darth

I am not sure that anymore will be making it here..except for the ones Setsuna and I have.


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## SerenaRena

pretty


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## Basement Bettas

Nice looking fish! Good luck breeding them.


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## Behati

beautiful! i hope they can help keep their lines in existence.


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## wish4coner

I am going to get a pair!!! I am so excited. I have a set of wilds coming and a set of the siamorientalis! Now, there will be 3 of us 

Thanks, setsuna!!!


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## Darth

What did you pay for them?


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## wish4coner

23.00 each.


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## Darth

You stole those, for a very rare species that is like robbing!!


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## wish4coner

lol..um, sorry..that is what he sold them to me for.


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## keepsmiling

These are gorgeous. I have been seeing them recently on AB.


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## MattsBettas

I'm in the wilds section of aquabid all the time and I have never seen them...


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## keepsmiling

I must be mistaken then. There is a similar fish called Imbellis?


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## LittleBettaFish

Yep. Imbellis is closely related, but a different species. Siamorientalis is only a recently described species.


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## keepsmiling

I never knew how many different types there were until cruising around on AB. Do the wild types come from the same area as the ones we know commonly?


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## wish4coner

I have a few coming...I have those and mahachaiensis. I am so excited! Should be here around Tuesday. I will post pics when I have them in their new homes.


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## MattsBettas

Same general area, they all originated in Southeast Asia.


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## LittleBettaFish

Some wilds come from Indonesia, some come from Thailand. I think the stiktos are from Cambodia and I think some species come from Malaysia. So not every species is from the same area. There can be some variation as well between the appearance of some species based on where they are caught.


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## Darth

Setsuna has a map , perhaps he can post it?
I can tell you for sure, the Mahachai comes from a very tiny place on this map and is now in danger of being filled in, Setsuna also posted a video of these being caught in a certain palm tree, very cool video indeed.
You can see the devastation where these palms are being cut down anyway, they seem to be somewhat hollow and it is amazing how the bettas get in there in the first place!


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## wish4coner

Darth said:


> Setsuna has a map , perhaps he can post it?
> I can tell you for sure, the Mahachai comes from a very tiny place on this map and is now in danger of being filled in, Setsuna also posted a video of these being caught in a certain palm tree, very cool video indeed.
> You can see the devastation where these palms are being cut down anyway, they seem to be somewhat hollow and it is amazing how the bettas get in there in the first place!


He just posted it to me on FB. The ones in Cambodia, that you mentioned..Stitkos? They are very rare right now, and in danger. It's sad but, I hope to keep breeding them pure so we can maybe preserve the species. I will ask him to post it, when I see him on FB tonight.


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## LittleBettaFish

I think many of the wild betta species are quite endangered in the wild. A whole slew of mine are listed as 'critically endangered' and the B. persephone is found in only one or two localities now, both of which are threatened by habitat destruction. 

It's very sad to think that one day these species might become extinct as the cost of human progress.


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## BettaFran

Good on all you guys breeding pure and carefully to preserve endangered wild species! Sad their habitat is being destroyed by humans...but at least other humans can prevent them from going extinct! Blessings on your endeavors!


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## keepsmiling

Very interesting, thanks!


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## Darth

I bet many of you are wondering why I posted this thread in The Show Betta thread...simple...NOTHING out there can match the perfect form of a Guitar Smaragdina or the natural colors of the Stiktos or Mahachai, Setsuna is sending me a very special line that come from a different provence of Siamorientalis, this fish is black and has some irids on it..I am very tempted to spawn him to a superblack plakat female.....I must fight the urge!!


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## wish4coner

I have several coming as well, Darth. And, I see the natural breeding as something that should be in the show forum. Although I do want to keep mine pure, by province I am curious as to how different colors that show up, from the same province will breed as well. I am fighting the urge and I haven't even got them yet. Setsuna has been so kind as to keep mine conditioning, after they got here to the states. They are coming on MOnday. 

I want stiktos however so, I am watching your spawn. I can't get them now from Cambodia, I guess.


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## MattsBettas

Darth, I don't see anything wrong with doing an experimental spawn with a siamorientalis and a splendens, just keep the lines seperate and make sure the buyer understands they are not pure siamorientalis.


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## Setsuna

keepsmiling said:


> I never knew how many different types there were until cruising around on AB. Do the wild types come from the same area as the ones we know commonly?


Some are from Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, and Cambodia but mostly found in Thailand


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## keepsmiling

Setsuna how wonderful, thank you. Is there a site where one could read all about them and see photos of where they live? Stuff like that fascinates me.


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## Setsuna

keepsmiling said:


> Setsuna how wonderful, thank you. Is there a site where one could read all about them and see photos of where they live? Stuff like that fascinates me.


i just re-edit my comment please check again ^^


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## keepsmiling

Thanks!


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## Hallyx

Darth said:


> ...NOTHING out there can match the perfect form of a Guitar Smaragdina or the natural colors of the Stiktos or Mahachai,


I couldn't agree more, Darth. And thanks to you and Setsuna and wish4 and LBF and all the other breeders for continuing pure lines for us wild fanciers.


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## Lamb

Wow! Very pretty.


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## Myates

Apparently not as rare and not only 2 people have them in the US.. other breeders have kept them in the past and in the present. 

A shame, like I said before people will claim something is a new species or rare to get the prices up.. but these guys are becoming extinct in the wild and it's sad that people will take them from where they should be and make other people believe they are "rare" and will pay good money for them.. but these guys have been around for a while, have been bred in the states, etc. 

Pretty fish.. but not just newly discovered.


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## wish4coner

Myates said:


> Apparently not as rare and not only 2 people have them in the US.. other breeders have kept them in the past and in the present.
> 
> A shame, like I said before people will claim something is a new species or rare to get the prices up.. but these guys are becoming extinct in the wild and it's sad that people will take them from where they should be and make other people believe they are "rare" and will pay good money for them.. but these guys have been around for a while, have been bred in the states, etc.
> 
> Pretty fish.. but not just newly discovered.


Oh, My! Honestly? I bought mine now because it's supposedly hard to get them. I actually bought mine to repopulate as, I thought there was a possibility for releasing back into the wild eventually. I even keep them pure with species. Maybe Setsuna can explain more to us??????


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## Myates

Yeah.. there are special groups and such within the IBC for the wilds.. the IBC president has kept and bred these before himself.


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## wish4coner

I'm not upset about buying them but I truly thought it would be good to keep the lines going. Thanks for the update. I'll be careful on what I buy. I do buy from only one breeder so, I will stick with him. TY so much.


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## LittleBettaFish

I don't think I have seen this species advertised anywhere for an exorbitant price. I would assume _pure_ specimens were rare or at least uncommon in terms of supply. For example, I can purchase Betta imbellis through my wholesaler here, but what you get is often low quality and of dubious purity. 

I have no issue with the catching of wild bettas. Most of the time they are endangered because of habitat destruction for things like palm oil plantations rather than over-fishing for the hobby. There are more common aquarium species (I think white cloud minnows are one) that get traded at fish stores around the world where overfishing is more of a problem. 

I think nearly all of the habitat for Betta mahachai is salt pans now. I believe Betta persephone had a highway or something built through one of their main localities, and so is now only found in a couple of places. Finding pure wild splendens is also getting increasingly difficult due to hybridism with released domestic stock. 

Sadly I think the future of all these species rests in the tanks of hobbyists. With development often roaring ahead in these countries, their future looks quite bleak unless we can secure their numbers in tanks around the world. 

Also, you need a certain number of fish to keep a population going long-term. The capture of fish from the wild introduces fresh blood into a population and stave off problems caused by too much inbreeding such as deformities, lowered fertility etc. I know killifish breeders in Australia face these sorts of issues with rarer species because they are so sporadically imported and thus whole lines have been lost here.


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## snowflake311

When a fish is on the verg or Extinction should we be taking it and putting it in our tanks? Does this really help the wild population? How many breeders ship there fish back to Thailand to be released into the wild? Do they do that like a breeding program a Zoo would do? I guess as long as these fish end up in the hands of a very Experience fish keeper It's ok. But if they were collecting and selling them to just anyone EEEEKKK!

I understand that you want to keep the fish alive and the only way it might stay alive is in our safe aquariums. I am just torn I guess. Should we leave these fish alone in the wild? or collect them so we can them keep alive in captivity? could you breed with the intent of putting them back in the wild?

I don't know I am just kind of thinking and typing. 

It's an amazing fish and I hope you do get many generations out of them.


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## LittleBettaFish

The problem is that some of these bettas are running out of places to live in the wild. 
If we don't collect and preserve these species, they may be pushed to extinction. Many of them are on the critically endangered list already. 

It's difficult because on one hand you want as many fish as possible to remain in the wild, but on the other we have to maintain the purity and continuation of the species.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX

I'm curious how rare my little Tiny Tina is. She's a Cambodian Heart Tail Dragon Scale with fins bigger than some males. o.o;


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## Darth

Send back to Thailand? Why? this is why they are being preserved here, there is no place to send back to.
Pretend the Manachai betta is Superman, and his home planet is Krypton...now you see the picture.


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## wish4coner

snowflake311 said:


> When a fish is on the verg or Extinction should we be taking it and putting it in our tanks? Does this really help the wild population? How many breeders ship there fish back to Thailand to be released into the wild? Do they do that like a breeding program a Zoo would do? I guess as long as these fish end up in the hands of a very Experience fish keeper It's ok. But if they were collecting and selling them to just anyone EEEEKKK!
> 
> I understand that you want to keep the fish alive and the only way it might stay alive is in our safe aquariums. I am just torn I guess. Should we leave these fish alone in the wild? or collect them so we can them keep alive in captivity? could you breed with the intent of putting them back in the wild?
> 
> I don't know I am just kind of thinking and typing.
> 
> It's an amazing fish and I hope you do get many generations out of them.


They are being taken for fighters so, we save a life. Only the ones that survive the fights are released back and, they are wounded. And, they can fight them for an hour or more, so imagine what damage is done. Plus, their ecosystem is being lost. I watched a whole documentary on it by a photographer that wanted to learn about the big thing in fighting fish, and went over. The longer the fight, the more money is made. And, what is put back is losing it's ecosystem from builders. So, do I say it's kinder to leave them alone? No, cuz, I personally love the fish I take care of and would never want one hurt, so someone can make money on betting.


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## wish4coner

To be honest, I paid 23.00 per fish, plus overnight shipping. I got domestics on Ebay for 45 that did nothing but sit in the tank because the breeder misleads and you think you're getting a young fish and it's past the prime--with beefheart used so much to breed faster and bigger, the fish is the size of a 6 month old so, you can't tell anymore how old they are when you buy them. 
I have a very good breeder that gets them for me and I believe his price is great. I have heard of others trying to get them for free so, I think that's way out there and greedy. But, that's me. I think I got a great deal, considering what I would have paid from Thailand direct. But, that's me.


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## Setsuna

Myates said:


> Apparently not as rare and not only 2 people have them in the US.. other breeders have kept them in the past and in the present.
> 
> A shame, like I said before people will claim something is a new species or rare to get the prices up.. but these guys are becoming extinct in the wild and it's sad that people will take them from where they should be and make other people believe they are "rare" and will pay good money for them.. but these guys have been around for a while, have been bred in the states, etc.
> 
> Pretty fish.. but not just newly discovered.


Yes, its true these are not newly discovered the first one was found in 1990 but it wasn't official until DNA test and more researched was done because it was mistaken for a wild splenden. Thai people was keeping this species a secret till they was officially announced last year. they may not be rare in Thailand but they are rare here in USA. You wont see these on AB till a while


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## whatsupyall

Darth said:


> Send back to Thailand? Why? this is why they are being preserved here, there is no place to send back to.
> Pretend the Manachai betta is Superman, and his home planet is Krypton...now you see the picture.


I was weak and hurting in the stomach after reading this. :lol: Awesome example.


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