# Alright, time to weigh in, folks.



## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Is my Tiny Tina a girl or a Tiny Tim? 0.o I have a collage of pictures, a good dorsal picture, and a crappy drawing of his/her dorsal fin. Can't get him/her to flare. No reaction to mirrors, etc. lol 
























What's the verdict, betta experts? >.<


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

By the looks of the dorsal, anal, and ventral fins, I'd say she is a girl (if she is 4 months or more). But I could be wrong, specially if she is very young (fins are still growing). Some exceptional males will develop full fins at a later age and usually show that "male" look after he is 4 - 5 months.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

But are the fins even too short for a plakat male? o.o


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I think your fish is quite young. 10-12 wks but i could be wrong lol. In a month you will should know for sure. If I would have to guess i say boy. My track record is not very good so grain of salt ok.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Ahaha fair enough. Thanks.  Any input would be awesome though.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Put a bright light over him/her and see if you can see the ovaries. They should be visible if it is a female. It's like a white triangle behind the intestines. Not sure though if you can spot them on very young females.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I'll give it a shot! Thanks for the tip!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Checked with a light, and no ovaries. So unless she's very very young, it's a boy.  How young would she have to be for ovaries to not be present?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Not sure. My young ones are all dark so I can't spot the ovaries anyway. 

I am not very good at sexing young bettas. I basically have to wait until mine are old enough to start spawning before I go "uh huh!". Whatever gender poor confused Tim/Tina is, you have a cute little betta.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Definitely super adorable. Just super confusing. Wish I knew how long it took for ovaries to show.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

This is driving me nuts.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Feed a healthy but steady diet. if a girl a lil eggy belly will develop. If a boy you might see a bubble nest. It took a few of mine up to 16 weeks to be gender certain.


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## rmarkham (Oct 4, 2012)

Could you imagine being a baby and having people trying to see your ovaries with a flashlight? 

Haha. Clearly I need to get more sleep at night because I got a kick out of that. 

Boy or girl your fish is SO pretty!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Already have a name picked out for the genderbender if it IS a boy.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The Ventral fins suggest a female or a very very young male. But the body shape seems to suggest a male, I have a gut feeling that it will turn out male, but we'll just have to wait and see 
Any egg spots at all? Rounding the tummy?


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

hey guys...just saw this...I had 404 unread emails (no kidding) yesterday to go through with more coming in...and that was AFTER deleting 168!!!

Ok...my expert breeder opinion is a very YOUNG boy! DT long fin. OK...recant that just a bit. Assuming he was one of those baby Betta that petco?smart? sales. He is probably about 3 months old but one of the runts...runts aren't bad!! and doesn't mean he will stay small. In fish, it means that he was last to be pulled out of the grow out by his breeder and all the dominate male hormones have just kept him from growing. Keep his water around 80 to 85*F...82 is best. Feed high protein food (New Life Spectrum Grow Formula) is the best on the market. According to where you get it...it can be expensive though. Feed him as much as he will eat in about a minute, and feed him 3 or 4 times a day (if he gut stuffs...eats a LOT) then only feed 2x a day...IF he gut stuffs, then you can feed smaller amounts 4x a day...(this is my preference). Change 1/2 his water daily for max growth.

Good luck with him!!! He will still grow kinda slow at first, but with in a month, he should pick up some size


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks for the post, copper! We can't afford that food right now unfortunately. We are using Omega One Betta Buffet. Will that suffice? Oh and I keep thinking I see a small white ovipositor, but the fish is so small it's super hard to tell. And yeah, it was from Petland, in a tank with a bunch of Tetras, and it was hiding in live the plants at the bottom.

Update: The white bit is bigger and brighter today. No signs of being eggy, but there is a small white bit. 

Oh and a side note? This fish is like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. Doesn't want to be fed, it wants to hunt. You drop a pellet in, the fish ignores it. You have it stuck to a wet finger, it launches out of the water and noms it hard.


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

You are soooooo welcome!!! and THAT is totally understandable!!! Omega is a good food too. NLS Grow is very small pellets.

I had a "female" sent to me from a breeder. I put her and a male PK into the spawn tank (I swear I saw her ovaries)...well they just kinda ignored each other...then I saw her flare!!! UMMMMMMMM....yeah.

Now 2 months later, he has grown out and is looking pretty nice...lol He ended up being a long fin HM. This is an experienced breeder, and all the signs pointed to female...short ventrals like your guy...short fins...etc. I see the same look in your guy


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

And what about the odds of it still being a male with an ovipositor? It's prominent enough now that he/she is filled with food, the thing is glowing white. lol


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

"Ovipositors" are not generally considered a great way to determine gender... Many young fish of both genders have them. Lol.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

mattsbettas said:


> "ovipositors" are not generally considered a great way to determine gender... Many young fish of both genders have them. Lol.


sonofa- >.<


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh looks like I didn't post it on this one, but flaring isn't a great indicator either. Girls and boys flare nearly the same, one of my females has a great looking beard as well!

EDIT: ^ was just for a future reference


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Figures. :-/ the waiting game sucks.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Feeding him/her a lot to try and get a sign. xD


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Still no belly. Still no flaring. xD Confusing bloody fish.


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## WolfHhowling (Apr 10, 2013)

XxxXnoodleXxxX said:


> Still no belly. Still no flaring. xD Confusing bloody fish.


Must be male, men are confusing. lol jk. But I had to throw that in there.

If I had a guess I would vote little boy... but then again what do I know?

Right nothing lol


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

More than me. All I know is this fish is a bloody crack addict. Thing is such a bloody spaz.


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

XxxXnoodleXxxX said:


> And what about the odds of it still being a male with an ovipositor? It's prominent enough now that he/she is filled with food, the thing is glowing white. lol


Not an ovipositor. It is his cloacae.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Coppermoon said:


> Not an ovipositor. It is his cloacae.


No, it's an ovipositor. The ovipositor is the white thing that protrudes from the fish's cloaca.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

>_<; so much confusion


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol, that's young Betta's for you ^^ Oh, and Betta anatomy


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Starting to assume it's a boy though. No belly at all.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Can't believe how obsessed he is with surfing. Literally how he spends half his day. o.o
May be because he wishes he was back in the 7 gallon from the pet store.  
Wish I could put him in our 5 gallon but it's not finished the cycle yet.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Our little man is growing up so fast! :3 His fins are getting bigger by the day it seems. Here are a couple pictures of him from this morning, a few of which where you can see his beautiful blue eyes. He's still a complete spaz, going through fits of hyperactive surfing to sleeping on his leaf at the top of the tank so the lazy bugger doesn't have to move to breathe air. xD


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> No, it's an ovipositor. The ovipositor is the white thing that protrudes from the fish's cloaca.


I know what an ovipositer is, and I know what a cloaca is...if it is a male, then it can't be an ovipositer. Ok...how about...he ate so much part of his guts is sticking out.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

What coppermoon means is that it is impossible for a male to have a real ovipositor... The "imitation ovipositor" that you see is really his cloaca. She is correct, by the way.


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

With the body being so light, you should be able to candle. Take a flashlight and shine it at the side of the fish.
If it's a girl, you should be able to see the ovaries


(again, only outlined this time)


if no ovary, not a girl! lol


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> What coppermoon means is that it is impossible for a male to have a real ovipositor... The "imitation ovipositor" that you see is really his cloaca. She is correct, by the way.


**Like**


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Jeepers guys, no need to get testy. Sorry, I probably read it wrong. If the males don't have actual ovipositors then why do we still say they can still have them just smaller?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I shone a light from front and back, and can see shapes, but no idea what I'm looking for. lol


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I've outlined the shape that you need to look for. Everything else is pretty standard between the sexes.

So, if there's no BIG triangle that goes up into the tail, it's a boy.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Well with light behind and in front, I don't see a triangle behind/below the stomach/intestines, so I think it is indeed Gay Tony for good. :3


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

lol ^_^


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Now just waiting for the stupid cycle to finish on his big tank so the flamboyant little terror can live in his real pad and not the guest suite. lol


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I think I just fell in love with the term "flamboyant little terror"! It makes me think of a tiny monster running around with jazz hands! XD


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

That's basically WHAT HE DOES. Seriously all he does is surf and sleep. So he tears back and forth along the glass like a little psycho with jazz hands! That's our Gay Tony in a nutshell.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I have a gay fish too. His name is Elton and gets major v stripes when near another male.

If I put one of my fat girls near he gets stress stripes. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

AHAHAHHAHA
-gasp-
bahahahahahaha


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Good god Gay Tony adorable. His tank is on a small record cabinet beside the counter where our stove is, about two feet shorter at the top of his tank than the counter. I'm stirring soup at the stove and I catch movement in the corner of my eye. I look, and there he is, surfing like a psychopath, in a tiny triangle of space that I could see him in. Literally about an inch high and two inch long triangle, and he's surfing int hat tiny space trying to get my attention. I LOVE THIS FISH.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Managed to snag a quick picture of the little guy surfing back and forth like a madman in the tiniest area imaginable to get my attention. :3


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Oh boy. Thought I spotted a triangle with a light behind him/her. Took pictures of the little fishy with alight behind him/her.










What's the verdict, betta experts? Ovaries?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Here's all the photos. 
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/1707/tinytonytina.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img835/3513/tonyshadow.jpg
And here's one highlighting the triangle shape.
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/6812/tonytriangles.png

Whatcha think, folks?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Oh my gosh it just keeps getting harder! Those look like small ovaries...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

AHaha I know right? I have no idea what they're supposed to look like. I can't find any photo references to compare to. I dunno if I'm just seeing things or what. And the ovipositor/cloaca is still very bright white. :-\


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## Graceful (Apr 30, 2013)

Maybe s/he is a hermaphrodite? Do those exist in bettas? LOL. Just snowballing here. S/he sounds like a real character.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

It's possible. But I would say quite unlikely. Usually it's either a female showing male physical traits or a male showing female physical traits. Hence why, for now, he's called Gay Tony. xD


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Tringle is definitely still there and may be growing. o.o


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah they look like ovaries to me too, I wouldn't be surprised for a female


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

I agree rhat "he" is starting to look female.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Coppermoon said:


> I agree rhat "he" is starting to look female.


Really?! :3


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, the general body shape, the ventrals are staying shorter and then of course the ovaries as well. Also the anal fin isn't as pointy either


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

For the record, my aunt's name is Toni. It could still apply!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I can even see the triangle shape without a light now. It's lighter than everything else. o.o; Glowing ovaries?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lmao that comment made me literally lol glowing ovaries.

On my girl Pineapple, well she's yellow and her ovaries are white so they are very visible as well.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah I'm really thinking that's what is the scoop with her too. :3 So Tiny Tina it is! <3


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Haha sexing chickens is easier than betta.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

logisticsguy said:


> Haha sexing chickens is easier than betta.


True facts -_- we used to raise chickens for eggs and stuff, so much easier than a Betta lol


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

She has pretty long fins for a dt female, but those really do look like ovaries . New pix yet? 

Female:


Female with ovaries circled:


This is a light bodied girl with out the light shining through. She is an older female, so it is a lot easier to see them.


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

our little yellow girl, Willow has "gloveries" too, her's are massive for such a small fish!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah that's like Tina's! If you want to see updates on her, check out this thread:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=158961&page=4


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