# Bloating but no pineconing



## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

My crowntail betta has been bloated for weeks and he's only getting bigger. I have no idea why. I've looked on other sites and a lot of them kept saying that it might be dropsy or constipation. I have another betta (veil tail) that shares the same tank with a divider in the middle. He's healthy and very active. 
When I first notice that my crowntail's belly was getting bigger I quarantine both bettas into smaller tanks and observed them for a week. About every 2 days they'd have 1 or 2 droppings in their each of their tank. So I didn't think that constipation was a problem. My crowntail is still very active and it doesn't seem like the bloating affects him. 
I've tried not feeding him for 3 days but he remains bloated. I've also tried giving him a small amount of a pea and waited a day or 2, still nothing.
Any help on what's going on with him will be greatly appreciated!


















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This is before moving him to a smaller QT tank today._
Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 gal. He uses half of it.
What temperature is your tank? 74°F to 80°F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Veil tail betta separated by divider. Moss ball. Live plants.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Aqueon Betta Food pellets and freeze dried blood worms
How often do you feed your betta fish? 5 pellets once a day, expect Sundays. 1 worm every 2 or 3 days. I don't feed by the 2 minute rule because they eat a lot really fast. I go by the eyeball rule. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? bi-weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25% to 50% depending on when I change the filter.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? I don't use tap water. Drinking water only. Not distilled water. I add a very small amount of aquarium salt. 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? Yes

If so, what are the following parameters?
Ammonia: 0 to < 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
pH: 7
Hardness: 75
Alkalinity: 80

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Bloated
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He slashes a lot more than normal. Like he's trying to get something on the surface or maybe trying to jump out? He does this in the old tank and in the new QT tank.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? About a month ago.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Tried the giving him bits of a pea once. Stopped feeding him for 3 days. That was weeks ago. Now he's back to his normal diet.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? I'm guessing about a year.


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

You said he had been pooping? What are the color of his poops? Are they a normal brown, or are they pale or stringy?

Also, could you get a top-down photo?

At this point - I'm going to recommend adding epsom salt in tank. IF this is dropsy, the earlier treatment is started better chances your guy may have. Otherwise, epsom salt can be used to treat constipation as well. Dosage is 1tsp per gallon - dissolve before adding to the tank and then introduce slowly.

If this is indeed dropsy though - be aware that dropsy is a symptom rather than a disease itself. It is an indication that your fish's kidneys have failed - or are at least not working properly. So, if this IS dropsy further treatment would likely be needed as well. This is where the top-down photo will help.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Otherwise, there are a couple of things to point out about the care.

A 2.5gal is GREAT for one betta, but it is really small for 2. The smallest tank we recommend dividing is 5gal. I know that the "bettabow" is out there - I'm guessing that's what you're using. Unfortunately there are a lot of tanks out there for betta that are not great environments for them. If you can - getting another 2.5 to house your guys separately or getting a 5gal to split would be a really good option for them in the long run.

As for water changes - it appears that your tank is cycled. Even then though, your nitrates are starting to get a little bit high. 40ppm is where a water change should happen. We usually recommend trying to shoot for 20ppm and below.

Usually - we recommend 2 50% water changes per week on a cycled 2.5 gallon tank. You are doing far less.You look to understand water testing and you can use that to guide you, but either way you want to be changing the water at least weekly. Just - you can use testing to tweak how much per week...since your tank is planted it may not need the 2 50% per week that is typically recommended.

One other thing to be aware of is the water itself. Your fish get necessary trace minerals from their water supply, and often times drinking water has these stripped out. Typically, treated tap water is the best (and cheapest!) option. That doesn't mean that drinking water can't be used - but if it is you should be mineralizing it to be sure that your guys get the trace minerals they need. Aquarium salt in and of itself probably doesn't do this, or do this effectively. Something like Seachem Equilibrium would be more along the lines of what you're looking for.

Even if using drinking water though - you would still need to dechlorinate. There are no definitive standards for drinking water, and some will still contain chlorine.


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## AngelFins (Nov 19, 2014)

bumping because I'm having this same issue!!!  Grimm isn't as big but my other betta had it for months before he just got really lethargic and wouldn't eat and died... I thought maybe it was a bacterial infection because there were no raised scales to indicate dropsy, and it seemed sudden.


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## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

*Thanks!*

Thank you so much for the information about the water care, Greenapp1es! Will keep them in mind. I will do a water change as soon as I can.  Will also that a look into Seachem Equilibrium. 

As for his droppings, they are the normal brown chunky globs. No paleness or springs.

Here's a video of him swimming around with a bloated belly: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/...6138475653919263266&oid=107777034490887186966

Here are the top view of my betta:


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Your man appears to have a GIT upset. If his waste is the same and his appetite normal then it points to it being a digestive problem.

Normally bloating has many causes from parasites to infections to water condition. But his symptoms are lacking for anything else save stomach trouble.
Was he like this when you got him home? Or has it developed later?

For the moment I suggest you cut off his food for about two days and see if the bloating deflates at all. Don't worry bettas can go some time without eating, it will be good for him to have a reset.

Now how is his swimming? Do you see him swimming as if his body is too heavy or too floaty to support him? perhaps not wanting to move about much and flailing his fins to keep balance?


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## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

Thank you for the reply, Taeanna! The bloating slowly grew over time. I'm starting to notice that he might be struggling to get air since he does a little jump or pops at the surface. Since I moved him to the QT tank I also noted that his droppings are a bit stringier than the last time I QT him. 

Here are his dropping picture if it is any help:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...qgebi9OYIwg/w1003-h577-no/20150417_082739.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-.../8ymRe7f4liE/w892-h577-no/20150417_082800.jpg


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

To me those poops look normal, but massive. I think you *might* still be looking at a massive constipation issue, and the the floatiness is just the waste putting pressure on the swim bladder as it passes.

If the bloating has increased though, could you post an updated picture?

For now keep fasting him and keep him in the Epsom salts. That should make it easier for him to pass everything.


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## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

Hello again. 
He hasn't gotten any bigger since I last posted pictures of him. I'm just afraid that be get overwhelmingly huge in a week or a month. I will stop feeding him for now and will update if anything happens.

Also, I thought he droppings were quite small. Since they are about the same size as my other betta's.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...Mq0Hj9Joi-Q/w1008-h567-no/20150417_105624.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...Ctr6irCHRPY/w1008-h567-no/20150417_105203.jpg


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

If you look VERY closely at the photos, you can see slight pineconing. It may be dropsy after all. Keep in mind that some fish do not exhibit pineconing to any noticeable degree until the latter stages.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

If you see signs of SBD (the inability to float correctly- like he was doing at the surface) and an increase in bloat we might need to step up treatment. 

First off epsom salts in his water are a natural internal cleanser and should act as a laxative to get the blocked waste moving.

Next is to address his floating/sinking issues. SBD is usually a progression of GIT problems, caused when bacteria that is fermenting in the gut invades the swimbladder. The bacteria in it start producing waste of their own that inflates it, either with gas (floating) or with liquid (sinking). The only way to stop that is to kill them.
I personally use the antibiotic tetracycline because where I live there are less options (aus has stronger laws against home medicating), However the US also has kanaplex and the furan range. Use what is available to you.


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## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

Hello!
I actually do have him on epsom salt. As suggested by Greenapp1es. It's been about 5 days now. I've also stopped feeding him for the past 3 day but saw no change so I fed him on the forth day (today). 

I'll take a look into kanaplex and see where I can buy it. Thank you for the advice.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Drinking water can have a high degree of variables. I would recommend against bottled water unless you KNOW your tap water is unsafe. Bottled water is often not regulated or tested, so the water parameters are unknown. Also, bottled water often has vitamins, flavors, preservatives, colors, or other additives added to make the water more appealing. These can be bad news for your fish tank. It can be very low or non existent mineral content.

Probiotics can often help prevent internal infections that will affect the liver and kidney. I use lactobacteria rhamnosis GG (Culturelle) sprinkled on bloodworms once a week, it fights infection by poisoning the bad bacterium in the gut and will spark immune system to produce more t cells. Just a note that you cant use probiotics with kanamycin as they counter each other. Since your guy is at this stage go with the Kanamycin. Good luck!


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## bloominglove (Jan 7, 2015)

Thank yo for the response, logisticguy. 
I don't use the tap water here because I've heard it to have gone brown once and that frightens me.
After taking a closer look at my drinking water I noted that it used reverse osmosis and I knew then that the water basically didn't have anything in it at all. So I bought something to add the needed minerals for that.  
I'm looking at kanaplex and it seems like the best bet.
Thank you for the advice.


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## ajfish (12 mo ago)

bloominglove said:


> Hello!
> I actually do have him on epsom salt. As suggested by Greenapp1es. It's been about 5 days now. I've also stopped feeding him for the past 3 day but saw no change so I fed him on the forth day (today).
> 
> I'll take a look into kanaplex and see where I can buy it. Thank you for the advice.


Hi! I'm seeing the same with my current Betta. All the same symptoms that you listed in your post. I wanted to check in if you were able to resolve the Betta's issues in the end and how you treated it.


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