# HUGE EMERGENCY: Kid fed Betta ROACH POISON?!



## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

My daughter claims that she gave Buttercup a "stick". I didn't know what she meant by a stick, but on top of the tank was a dried up strip of Combat roach gel. She is claiming that she stuck it in the feeding hole and he "broke it". I don't know what that means and she is a toddler. I was hoping against all odds that she just put that one piece on top of the tank, but it is now a few hours later and sure enough he is floating on his side again with a swollen tummy. Is there ANYTHING at all that I can do for him???


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't recall how large your tank is, but I would *do a 100% water change ASAP*, if possible. 
Use up to 2x the normal amount of water conditioner....

A 100% water change will remove toxins from the water.

ETA: Here is information about Combat® Source Kill Max Roach Killing Gel, from their MSDS: "This product is toxic to fish." 
Hydramethylnon is the active ingredient. I looked up its structure, and it's a fluorinated compound. For this reason, I would also add some extra water conditioner. Hopefully, something that dechlorinates water can also help defluorinate it....

So, again, a 100% water change. Use up to two times the normal dosage of water conditioner.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

My tank is 3 gallons. If I do a 100 percent change won't the tap water be too cold? I just changed like 80% of it, but if he ate it, how will the water change help?


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## bettafishy life pineapple (Dec 10, 2013)

wow.......... that sucks. i dont mean to sound rude but at least she gave it to the fish instead of eating it herself. as for the fish i honestly dont know what to do in that situation try changing the water and putting him in a QT cup and see what happens and hope for the best.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

1) What is the water temp in the tank?
2) Fill a container HALFWAY with tap water. 
3) Take the thermometer out of the tank. (Or use a different one.) Put it in the container.
4) Add warmer water, until the container water is within 2 degrees (plus or minus) of the tank water. (If the water gets too warm, add cooler water.)
5) Add a DOUBLE DOSE of conditioner.

He may not have "eaten" it. He may have just come over to investigate it. 

Regardless of whether he ate it or not, it's highly toxic to fish, so it needs to be removed from the water.

Water conditioner neutralizes chlorine compounds. Both chlorine and fluorine are "halogens," meaning they have similar properties. So something that neutralizes chlorine may possibly neutralize fluorine, too.

If he did ingest it, he'll still be swimming in water that contains conditioner. Hopefully, some will get into his system and help neutralize it. Also, being in clean water may help some of it leach out of his body.

(ETA: Bettafishy life pineapple has a good point. You may want to ask her if she ate any of it.....)


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

She didn't eat any. Thank goodness because I already took her to the ER once this week for unrelated breathing problems.

The digital thermometer said the water was between 85 and 86, but it felt warmer than that to me. The water always feels cool when I touch it so I found that surprising. It isn't the best thermometer because if I take it and put it in cold water, it takes a really long time to change temp reading and it is the only one I have.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I am assuming that it would have sunk which is why I use the siphon and took more than half the water out from the bottom of the tank.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Also I had already changed the water before I got your response and it is down to 81.4


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

How is he now?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Same hiding behind the filter on his side Can't swim down


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

If I didn't know she put roach poison in the tank, I would say it looks like Swim Bladder


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I hope he makes it. Poor little guy.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Our body temp is about 98.6F. So water that is 85F will still feel somewhat cool to us....

Hydramethylnon photodegrades with a half-life of 1 hour in water. (Source here) In other words, exposure to light breaks it down quickly. After one hour, only half the original amount will still be present. 

Also, it's not highly soluble in water and has a high density. This means it would have sunk to the bottom of the tank. Therefore, your vacuuming the bottom of the tank was an excellent idea.

Hopefully, he didn't actually eat it......


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I just asked her again how he broke the stick and she said he broke it with his mouth. I know it is supposed to taste "good" to roaches, so hopefully it didn't taste good to him also. I put a piece of it in a cup and it sunk which is why I vaccuumed the tank.

I am thinking that maybe my Zoo Med heater is overheating the water though because that is the first time the fish tank water has EVER been warm to my touch. The problem is that we are in the middle of a snowstorm and my apt isn't warm enough for him to stay all night without a heater...


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Something is not right. The thermometer says 82.2, but it feels warm to my touch.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Are your hands cold? 

When we get cold, our bodies maintain heat at our core, but let our extremities (hands/feet) become cooler. If your apartment is currently cold, it's possible that your hands are cold too, which could make the water feel 'warmer' than usual.

No other thermometers in the house? Do you have one in your refrigerator?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

No, my hands are not cold. My apt. isn't cold either, but the room temp water tends to be 74-76


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I turned the heater off. The thermometer says 81.1 now, but the water feels normal temperature. I think the heater is overheating, but that doesn't explain why the thermometer is wrong though it is digital so could be a bad battery or something


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

How is he?


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## MrsRowell706 (Nov 21, 2013)

Since Epsom salt is a laxative could it help the fish pass the stuff faster if he ate it? Hope your fish makes it


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope he will get better , give us an update


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks for your help, everyone. He is still alive. Water Change must have saved his life


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

our fish are precious,but our children are irreplaceable. hopefully you will be more vigilant with your household poisons in the future. glad this worked out for you.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Is he back to normal healthy behavior?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

sandybottom said:


> our fish are precious,but our children are irreplaceable. hopefully you will be more vigilant with your household poisons in the future. glad this worked out for you.


Thanks for your obnoxious comment. I live in an impoverished building in the projects that is infested and I HAVE to use poisonous bug killer so that there aren't roaches crawling over my daughter's face because the people in this building live like pigs. I usually put tape over all the roach gel to keep my daughter safe, but the exterminator came last week and told me not to and ripped it all off. She knows not to eat the poison, but she didn't know it would hurt the fish.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> Is he back to normal healthy behavior?


He seems to be okay, but I am feeding him much less just in case and I haven't gotten a new thermometer or heater yet because I am very sick.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Not relevant to fish, but have you ever tried diatomaceous earth for roaches? It works by cutting roach exoskeletons with its tiny abrasive particles rather than poison.


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> Thanks for your obnoxious comment. I live in an impoverished building in the projects that is infested and I HAVE to use poisonous bug killer so that there aren't roaches crawling over my daughter's face because the people in this building live like pigs. I usually put tape over all the roach gel to keep my daughter safe, but the exterminator came last week and told me not to and ripped it all off. She knows not to eat the poison, but she didn't know it would hurt the fish.


this was not an obnoxious comment.it was a comment full of sincere concern from a person whom you have never met.i also use insect poisons in my impoverished house.i have found ways to keep it away from my children.since you are reading this on a computer,it is hard to tell if someone is being sincere or not.you may want to keep that in mind for the future.i am glad things worked out for you.i am glad your child and fish are safe.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sure Sandybottom didn't mean to be rude. She didn't know your situation. I'm glad your fish is better and I hope you feel better soon.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

It wouldn't hurt to do 50% water change every day for a few days just to get as much poison out as possible. Good luck and glad he is looking better.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

sandybottom said:


> this was not an obnoxious comment.it was a comment full of sincere concern from a person whom you have never met.i also use insect poisons in my impoverished house.i have found ways to keep it away from my children.since you are reading this on a computer,it is hard to tell if someone is being sincere or not.you may want to keep that in mind for the future.i am glad things worked out for you.i am glad your child and fish are safe.


 
I apologize. I am so used to people in the internet making rude comments to try and antagonize people they don't know. I am going through an extremely difficult time right now, but I don't mean to take it out on you.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

How is your little guy doing?


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

no problem.we try to keep things civil here.this place is full of love.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, we genuinely care about our members and I'm glad this little disagreement is over and everything is fine.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He was doing better, but seems to have Swim Bladder again for the THIRD time in two weeks. *Can SBD be chronic???* It seems that he gets it every time I feed him NLS pellets. I wonder if he developed an allergy to them? I use the mini pellets small fish formula and just feed him three or four which is LESS than giving him two regular sized pellets. I have been using it since we got him in June alternating with frozen bloodworms/frozen brine shrimp and never had a problem until now. I know that NLS is supposed to be among the best with the least fillers... Since this is the third time it has happened though, I suppose I will be cutting out the NLS.

His stomach gets distended and I notice that he keeps floating towards the top unable to swim down, but then the next day he is better. I finally picked up some epsom salt, so I dissolved about 4 teaspoons into his three gallon tank to help him get better faster, but I feel so bad about all the pain/trauma he has endured as of late. Between the roach poison and the three episodes of SBD, that poor little fish is quite the trooper.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, it can be chronic. I know because I had two fish with chronic sbd. One was caused by injury and neglect. The other was caused by feeding too much flake food. They wouldn't be like that all the time. Some days they'd be ok and other days they'd float. They were fine and lived normal lives. I just started feeding them daphnia which was recommended to me by a former mod and friend.


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Agree that sbd can be chronic. It can be caused by things like diet, and I've also personally observed some "balloon" fish or other fish with weird conformation or deformities who seemed to show issues with buoyancy. I've also read that it can be genetic, but I don't know if anyone has proven there are certain genes involved or if this is just speculation based on observations that maybe it tends to run in families or be more common in related individuals. But I suppose speculation (or more correctly hypothesizing) based on observation is how science begins! Maybe someone one day will be able to identify any genes at work that could contribute to this disease.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It's just weird to me that he never had it before and that it only happens when he eats NLS...


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Hmm, yeah that is weird. It is supposed to be a good food, but every fish is different so if he's otherwise fine, maybe you could try switching him to another high quality pellet food.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He's been eating it w.o problem since June, but I am not going to feed it to him anymore.


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

you may want to try soaking the food for a few minutes before feeding.he may have a defect in his tract.fancy goldfish have this problem alot.it is worth a try.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

The kind I have sink if you soak them first, but I think we can stick to frozen bloodworms for now, right?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You could even try mixing a few pellets in with the frozen bloodworms. If they taste like bloodworms then he might eat them.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would try another kind of pellets. Did you tried Omega one pellets? I would think that frozen bloodworms would not have all nutrients that he needs. You can try to mix bloodworms with food like dramaqueen suggested. I know its difficult because the food sink right away to the bottom. 
I have one old betta that don't see food very well. I trained him to eat it from a spoon. I put food in a white spoon and hold it so he can see it. He swims in the spoon and eat it. The spoon has to be white so he can see it. Try that, it is kind of annoying, but it easier to do this way, so it don't sink to the bottom. I am doing full water changes so i don't care if it sinks though. But in your situation i would not want food on the bottome. I guess vacuum the gravel very well and make sure you swish/rinse the filter media weekly in a tank water to get rid off all that gunk its gather on them.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He eats the pellets, so I don't see why I would need to mix them with the BL. It's just that every time he eats the pellets his SBD acts up and he floats to the top of the tank.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Anyone know how long it is safe to use the epsom salt for? Even with the epsom salt and the heat on, his tummy is bloated and he can't swim down...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Headless Lego Mom. I just skimmed this thread real quick so forgive me if you've already answered this question but you said the fish may have broken a piece off. Is it possible he ingested even a tiny particle? That his stomach bloated up mere hours after the incident makes me wonder if he did indeed ingest some poison. 

While it is generally safe to use epsom salt indefinitely, you do run the risk of dehydrating the fish. I know this sounds super strange but epsom salt works as a diuretic, leeching excess fluids out of the body. However, if the bloating in his body is due to something beside fluid buildup, such as internal damage from the poison, then the epsom salt will just be leeching out the fluids that he actually needs to maintain a proper osmotic and electrolyte balance. To that end, I would say go ahead and use the epsom salt for at least the next two or three days but if it is having absolutely no effect and the bloating hasn't gone down, I would go ahead and remove the epsom salt and we'll go with the assumption that any bloating is NOT due to excess fluid buildup.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I think he is dying. The epsom salt did not help, so I removed it from the tank. His stomach is still bloated and discolored. He hasn't been able to swim upright in days and every day he seems to have less ability to swim at all. Today he cannot even come out from behind the filter. Though I don't know for sure, my guess would be it has something to do with the roach poison. All I can do is try to keep him comfortable in warm, clean water at this point. Not even sure I should feed him...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I am so sorry, HeadlessLego.  I would probably have to agree with you that somehow the roach poison damaged his internal organs. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why he bloated up so fast after the incident. 

If he'll eat, go ahead and feed him but if he won't, it may indicate that his stomach was damaged. You're doing a great job with him so hang in there!


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## MrsRowell706 (Nov 21, 2013)

So sorry for what your going threw  but like Sakura8 said your doing a good job and you never know what could happen


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

The couple times the bloating diminished, it came back worse after he ate. I feel so bad for him. :-(


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I don't have any recommendations for your fish. But, I was going to recommend a natural Roach repellent. Catnip, is a natural repellent. You can make a "catnip tea" and spray it along the baseboards, and you can leave packets of it in places where they are active (like bathrooms and kitchens).


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

sorry to hear this. if his bloating goes down again,and he seems hungry maybe try some live or frozen foods like daphnia or brine shrimp. they are full of liquid and a natural laxative.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I agree with sandybottom on the live foods or frozen. You can find frozen daphnia at many Petsmart stores or if not that, frozen brine shrimp work as well.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Are you still doing frequent water changes with 2x the normal dosage of water conditioner? 

Unfortunately, the active ingredient (hydramethylnon) is very toxic to fish. It may have caused some internal organ damage. 

Did you ever figure out what was going on with the water temperature? What's the temp now?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I have the heater in, so I can't really do frequent water changes without changing the temp and making him uncomfortable. It is about 83 degrees.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you use a thermometer for the new water?

I generally let the tap water run for a minute, until it "feels" about right. Then I begin filling a container. I use a thermometer to check that it's within +/- 2 degrees F of the tank temp..... If needed, I add a little cold or warm water, until the container has the correct temp.

Then, I add water conditioner..... Give a quick stir, and use this for a water change.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

You can mix cold & hot tap water to get the proper temperature.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

+1 I adjust the water temperature via the faucet until it's right. If he is able get rid of any toxins via his excretory system without a water change it fouls the water.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He is already uncomfortable. I don't see why I should change the water more than every 2-3 days.


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## Philip Bernard Grumpybuns (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi, is he ok?


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## Vounn (Dec 29, 2013)

Hi. For all I know, you could use a hospital tank about 1-2 gallons for him, a separate cleaned tank, so that it's a brand new water safe for sick fish. Then you could mobilize the heater and filter(if you have) to the hospital tank. Keep the fish in a warm and dark place. Use an air bubble generator so he could get enough oxygen. 

If you don't feel like moving him to a new temporary tank, I suggest you at least use the bubble generator cuz roach poison could be oxidized, hence neutralized in time. I hope this helps.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

the more water changes- the better chance to get rid of the poison out of the tank and his system.


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## Soph7244 (Sep 18, 2013)

whats his situation now? any better


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

There would still be roach poison in the tank weeks later?

I have been feeding him small amounts of frozen brine shrimp or frozen bloodworms.

He is floating on his side as he has been doing for days with a bloated, discolored belly. He is spending most of his time in his floating betta log or hiding behind it, but does not seem to have trouble getting air. He cannot swim down in his tank as he just floats back up when he tried to descend. The water changes seem to upset him and he then clamps his tail.

I do not own a hospital tank, but he is the only fish I have in the only tank I have which is 3 gallons.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

No, the poison is in him, not the water. He ingested it, so now it's in his internal organs. 

The active ingredient, Hydramethylnon, is a metabolic inhibitor. This means the cells don't function normally. (Ie: Cellular respiration can't occur. The result is that the animal/insect has no energy for normal functions, such as metabolizing food or producing energy.) 

As a result, the animal/insect becomes lethargic, and eventually dies after awhile. (But it can take awhile.)

We've been recommending frequent water changes in order to help "pull" the toxins from his body. By using fresh water, it may allow some of the poison to seep out of his body, and into the water. (Things tend to flow from an area of high concentration (his body) to an area of low concentration (the water).)

However, the poison will tend to accumulate in the fatty tissues. Once there, it will pretty much stay there. (It's more soluble in fat than in water. So it will tend to remain in the fat, and won't dissolve in the water.) 

So at this point, if the water changes are stressing him out, you may as well stop doing them. I would concentrate on trying to give him good nutrition and minimizing stress. If you have a way to oxygenate the water, this could help. (It won't remove the poison, but it may allow the cellular respiration to occur.)


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Like an air stone?


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## Vounn (Dec 29, 2013)

@BlueLittleFishlets I see, thanks for the info.

@HeadlessLegoMom Yeah that's right, make sure it produces air bubbles as long as the switch is on. Anyway I also suggest, maybe take him over to the vet or other professionals that could diagnose and treat sick fish accordingly?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I don't think a vet will do much. I can pretty much guarantee that some people on this site and this thread are more knowledgeable about the diseases and treatments in fish than a typical vet. According to a veterinary paper on google there is no antidote (for dogs). They'll probably just put him down. 

Are you running a filter? Is there a charcoal insert? Charcoal will work to absorb any toxin that is released from the fish. I agree on running an airpump if possible- making respiration easier is important. 

LBF- What are your thoughts on using a low-medium dose of epsom salts to draw the fluid? There is surely a higher concentration of the toxin inside the body cavity, where the bloating is occurring- Epsom salts would help draw those fluids out, would they not?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I did the epsom salt, but it didn't seem to help, so I stopped after about a week. His bloating got worse and someone said that it may be drawing out fluids from his body that he needs.

Yes, I have a charcoal filter and an air stone, but he doesn't seem to have trouble getting air. He seems to be feeling a bit better today I saw him near the bottom of the tank and his boating was down significantly. He even blew a few air bubbles at me and came over to see me.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Matt - Unfortunately, the Epsom salt won't help, and may make things worse.

Hydramethylnon is not water soluble. It's fat soluble. So it's already been stored in the fatty tissues and organs. 

The Epsom salt would reduce the water soluble fluids. This can help the bloating, but that's only a symptom. It won't help the cells with their respiration process. And the dehydration that occurs may actually worsen the effect of the pesticide on the body. 

The bloating is probably caused by the effect of the pesticide's metabolic inhibition. It slows down cellular respiration, which slows down his metabolism. This means he isn't producing enough energy to meet his needs.... and also isn't able to eliminate wastes quickly.

So I wouldn't use Epsom salt. At this point, I'd concentrate on feeding him a high energy diet, and reducing stress. A high energy, easily digestible diet would help provide nutrition and energy. Reducing stress will help him conserve energy and allow his immune system to focus on "immediate stressors." 

Hydramethylnon is very toxic to fish. And it causes the most damage when it's ingested. If it had just been dropped into the tank but he hadn't eaten it, there probably wouldn't have been a lot of damage done. In fact, in the studies done on fish, it was so insoluble in water that they needed to dissolve it in some alcohol first. But if it's ingested, it quickly enters the bloodstream and becomes stored in the fatty tissues. That's where it does the damage to the cells by slowing down the process of cellular respiration. 

Providing aeration (via an airstone or filtration) can help by providing oxygen, which is required for cellular (aerobic) respiration. 

Since Hydramethylnon is fat soluble, a diet high in fat and oil might help remove some of the toxins from the tissues/organs. BUT then you run the risk of having them stored in different tissues/organs.... For example, say it's currently stored in the fatty part of muscles. Feeding him fat/oil could help remove it from there, but then it might end up in the liver, which could be even worse..... 

So at this point, I'd just provide palliative care, in the form of oxygenation, nutrition, environment, etc., and hope that he didn't ingest a fatal dosage.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks so much for the in depth explanation, LBF. You have quite a gift to be able to clarify complicated things in terms that I can understand. I will keep you updated, but with the bloating down and him being able to swim to the bottom of his tank again, he seems MUCH happier and seems to have his appetite back as well,


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

very glad to hear that your little guy is doing better.proud of you for not giving up on him,where others may have.


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## Vounn (Dec 29, 2013)

I learn alot from LittleBlueFishlets' sharing, thank you. Yeah hopefully the fish's immune system or whatever system (I'm no medical student) will find a way to somehow tolerate or even dismantle the poison.


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## BlueLacee (Dec 8, 2013)

Glad he is on the road to recovery


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Vounn - I tried to find information regarding the half-life of Hydramethylnon. It decomposes very rapidly when exposed to light. But obviously, if it's ingested, there's no light available. 

That said, hopefully, it's starting to break down by now. If he didn't ingest a large amount, and it breaks quickly down into something non-toxic (which will happen even if it's in the fatty tissues/organs), then he should start to feel better soon. 

HeadlessLegoMom - I'm glad he's doing better.


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## LurkerMom (Sep 9, 2013)

Damn LBF. Go work at a vet if you dont already lol. Not enough vets have people who can explain stuff  trust me i know lol

Glad the fish is doing better


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## Soph7244 (Sep 18, 2013)

OMG LBF! you know like everything! i'm glad that the little guy is doing better i hope your little kiddie knows whats wrong and right now. D: keep us posted!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I think he is still having issues swimming downwards despite the decrease in tummy swelling. Also, he seems to be pooping in strands/ribbons instead of balls. Is that cause for concern?


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## Vounn (Dec 29, 2013)

I think he is getting better. Just be consistent with water change and all parameters kept in check and it shall work out in time. Usually, strand poop is a sign of internal parasite, but since he's pooping it out so not much worry. Keep him under epsom treatment for a few more days and he'll recover in no time.


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## Soph7244 (Sep 18, 2013)

So, it's been a while since an update, how is he?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I was waiting for an update too


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Still having trouble swimming down and his poop looks like a worm, but okay otherwise. Tummy no longer swollen, seems more alert, but less active than pre-issues. Also, his tummy is still discolored.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey how is the little guy doing?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He is doing much better. Not completely back to normal, but much better.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

about a month after an incident happened and he doing better, hopefully he will be back to normal himself. Extra clean water and good nutritional food will help him to recover , and you doing an excellent job! Thank you for an update


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

so glad to hear that he is doing well..certainly beat the odds.


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## cheekysquirrel (Jan 7, 2014)

Poor little thing! Glad to hear he's ok, it just shows how much they can handle  I hope he continues to improve. That's the thing with kids that age. Obviously your daughter didn't mean any harm; it just didn't quite click with her how dangerous it could be to the fish, even if she does know that she can't eat it. On your behalf I am just so thankful that she did know! I can't imagine the stress you would have been under, and kudos to you for trying so hard!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I am still a bit concerned about his poop being stringy like a worm though. Does anybody have any advice on this?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

what color it is?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Is the issue that it was "curled" before and is "straighter" now? If so, I wouldn't worry about it. It's not a problem.

As long as the color is close to the color of his food (usually reddish), I wouldn't worry about the shape.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Normal color, just instead of being little balls like it normally is, it has been a ribbon of poop that hangs from him for a long time for a few weeks now


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

A consistent strain of poop? Ugh ... pictures would be awesome if possible. Normal color usually means no internal parasites, so that's a plus. What about the consistency? Is it squiggly, bumpy, thin, thick ... what?


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

have you been feeding a lot of frozen or live foods?this will give stringier poop,as it is full of moisture and is a laxative.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

If I see it again, I will take a picture.

I rotate feeding him frozen brine shrimp, NLS pellets, and frozen bloodworms.

The poop is normal color, but looks kind of like a long bloodworm as far as width goes.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Still pooping like this:








http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=17754&pictureid=111754


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

when i click the link ,it is blank.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

You don't see the picture in the post? I also put it in my album.


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

long stringy poop,usually means that they are being a little overfed. the color is good though.just cut back a little on the feeding amount,and see how it effects this.this is far less worrisome than constipation.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It has been like this for a while even on fasting days. Someone said something about parasites which is the only reason I am concerned. Also, it seems to hang out of him for hours without falling off...


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

So he ingests roach poison - and lives to poop another day..... This in itself is amazing.

It's entirely understandable that his internal system is going to take time to heal. He ingested roach poison, after all. 

As such, I don't believe his current poop issues indicate a "new problem" (internal parasites). It's much more likely that it's due to an "existing issue" -- namely, that his body is still in the process of healing. 

Give him time. His internal organs were likely damaged from the poison. The extent to which they can recover is something that can't be predicted.

But the fact that he survived, and that his internal organs are functioning (although a bit slowly), is remarkable.

In other words: don't stress about his poop being straight, long and slow to eliminated.

I would:
-- Feed him good food, 
-- Keep his water clean and warm, 
-- Minimize stress (for both yourself and for him), 
-- Give him and his body time to heal, and
-- Enjoy him. The fact that he survived is remarkable.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks LBF. I am surprised that he is acting pretty normal other than that. The bloating and buoyancy issues are gone and this is the only evidence that something went wrong to begin with. The only issue is that we are going away for two weeks in March and can't find anyone to come over and care for him, so he is going to have to go stay with a stranger for that time since you can't take fish to the airport with you.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh just don't let the stranger to change the water. Last time when the stranger change my friend's fish water, she came to a dying fish. Do a full water change before you go. Make sure the person do not overfeed so it would be less waste in the water, less contamination.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Won't the fish die if he goes two weeks without even a partial water change? The ammonia will build up or the water will still be dirty even with a couple drops of Prime a day, no?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i forget how big is your tank? Is it 5 gall? Do you cycle your tank or you just do full water changes? 
You can tell them to do partial 50% water changes , but make sure they do not take fish out. And don't forget to put a water conditioner. I think it even better to give them a writing instructions instead of telling them what to do. 
Make sure they don't wash anything with a soap. I don't know where people get idea but sometimes they will do silly stuff. I had a girl at work that wash everything with soap with each water change. I was stunned , she thought it supposed to be washed :shock:
So may be just write them so they don't forget to put a water conditioner. 
I go on vocation for 10 days and i do full water change and i usually ask my mom to feed them every other day 2 pellets a day. She never change the water.But i keep my water also cold though. There is more chance of an infection with a warmer water. 
I think you are right 2 wks too much. May be they can do 50% water changes.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

3 gallons and I do partial water changed twice a week


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't have anyone who can come feed him since I live so far away from everyone and it costs my aunt $40 in tolls round trip to get from Manhattan to Brooklyn. We are a twenty minute walk from the subway and I am not giving someone I don't know keys to my apt. My aunt doesn't want the fish in her apt or to change water, so I am trying to hire a college student to pick up the fish and take him home for a couple weeks.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How about a neighbor ? Coworker? Also you are in brooklyn Ny , i am in Philadelphia.Do you by any chance will drive my direction when you leave? I would take him. 
Whatever you will find ,do a full water change before you go and do not let any one take fish out of the tank. In worse case scenario i heard fish survive for 2 wks without food.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I live in East New York which is a notoriously bad part of Brooklyn. I can't trust anyone in our apt. The only person in this neighborhood that even had my phone number just moved away. We are flying out of JFK. I don't know how to drive. I was thinking about trying Agent Anything, but I would ask them to pick the fish up and take it to their own residence. Thanks for trying though, I appreciate it.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Good luck , let us know how it will go please.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Here is what I did once. I had to be gone 10 days. I had someone come 3 times during that period. They didn't do any water changes. By feeding 3 times in that 10 day period that was less poop in the tanks. They were housed in 1.5 and 2.5 gallon containers. I changed water the day before leaving and the day after I came home. I did lose a female but she was old and not doing well before I left and would have died anyway.


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## futbol1 (Dec 5, 2013)

dramaqueen said:


> Here is what I did once. I had to be gone 10 days. I had someone come 3 times during that period. They didn't do any water changes. By feeding 3 times in that 10 day period that was less poop in the tanks. They were housed in 1.5 and 2.5 gallon containers. I changed water the day before leaving and the day after I came home. I did lose a female but she was old and not doing well before I left and would have died anyway.


Good advice dramaqueen.

Glad I happened to see this thread-We travel frequently throughout the Summer, and I've been worrying in advance about caring for my fish while we're gone.

Like your fish, mine are in smaller tanks, and water changes are my biggest concern. The longest we go away is for about 7 days, so I think a 100% change the morning we leave and another 100% change on the day we return, along with a neighbor feeding about twice that week should be fine.

I lost a fish last August after my FIL overfed while we were on a 7 day vacation (he could also have died from an ammonia poisoning spike from the water too, not sure. But I think overfeeding was the culprit since my other fish were fine.) Long story short, I returned to a dying fish, it was so sad. I do not want that to happen again:-(


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