# Eeep! What's going on with his fins?



## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? *always 3.5 gallon, but i lowered the water a gallon less cause hes a little bit bloated (too many bloodworms!)  sooo at moment 2.5 gallons.*
What temperature is your tank? *75-82 F*
Does your tank have a filter? *nope*
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *nope*
Is your tank heated? *nope (dont kill meeeee)*
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *none*

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? *tetra betta pellets (it came with these water conditioning fizzy tablets) and topfin betta color enhancing pellets*
How often do you feed your betta fish? *2 times a day, 2 pellets each time*

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? * usually 50% twice a week & one 100% every other week, but cause of the fin rot, 50% every other day*
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?*see above*
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *API Stress Coat+ & some AQ Salt lately to fight the finrot.*

Water Parameters: 
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
*nope*
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
*ive been having some fin problems in the last two weeks (ever since i put that stupid gravel in... but i took it out) and it seemed like yesterday everything was cleared up (no holes, tears, none) but this morning i saw some deterioration or rotting on the top of his dorsal fin. i had to go to school but immediately when i got home i changed 50% of his water. Now tonight i saw that the tip of his dorsal fin is changing color. its a white, light blue, grey color. The rot or whatever hasnt gone away, but this i knew wouldn't heal in such a short amount of time. *
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?*none. hes still a happy fish! *
When did you start noticing the symptoms? *this evening*
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? *for fin rot, stress coat+ and AQ salt and extra water changes*
Does your fish have any history of being ill? *no. not since i changed the gravel. but i switched it back immediately.*
How old is your fish (approximately)? *i bought him last year on memorial day*


these are really bad photos, but i have a video. its uploading.

thanks guys!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi roarsirroar. Well, his anal and his tail fins both look pretty good. I can sort of see the lighter coloring on his dorsal fin. Are there any blackened edges on that lighter colored part? Does any part of him look fuzzy? And how is he acting? Does he still eat and swim okay?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hi sakura, yes there are some black edges. this morning i left for school and when i came back it looked like its gotten worse. its most definitely deteriorating or something. but besides that he acts and eats just fine.

i'm going to nuke his tank right now and increase the AQ salt amount slightly. i'm hoping its not advanced finrot...

again, really bad photos  sorry.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

With AQ salt and fin rot you will want to do 1-2 tsp per gallon, with 100% DAILY water changes.. for 10-14 days, no longer.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He's got gorgeous fins. Yes, I can see the black edges in the second set of pics you posted. The AQ salt and water changes should take care of the fin rot and encourage his fins to grow back. If you can, you may want to pick up API Stress Coat as well.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

UPDATE:
i put him in a 1 gallon QT tank since i can't put salt in my planted 3 gallon. also its been easier to clean than the giant vase.

its gotten a bit worse. i moved him up to my room so i can keep the temperature warmer in here than downstairs.

lol he does not like his temporary home. it sucks that i cant give him any foilage cause i only have old fake plastic plants. and theyre sharp!

sakura, i have stress coat  
i'm doing 2 tsp AQ salt and 1 mL of Stress Coat+. sounds good y/n?

yay! these photos are clearer!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

i just noticed this, but he has two thin lines of grey on the upper back part of his body. just on one side. its not part of his stress stripes, but you can see it in the first pic. above to the reflection of the lense...

should i be concerned? i dont believe it was there yesterday...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi roarsirroar. Yup, those pics show pretty clearly that he's got fin rot. You've got everything under control though.  If, after a day or so, he still hasn't responded to treatment, up the AQ salt to 3 tsps and the Stress Coat to 2 ml. Don't keep him in AQ salt for more than 14 days. If, after 14 days, he still has signs of fin rot, we'll have to try medication. He really is a handsome fellow, I love his coloring. And about those grey lines. In the picture, they don't look like anything you need to be concerned about but keep an eye on them and if they get bigger or change drastically, definitely let us know.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

yeah hes very blue 
ok thanks so much!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Good luck with him.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

craaaaaaaaaap what it this? it that a missing scale??
and his finrot is spreading faster. ill have to up the dosage...


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## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

if you can go to the nearest pet co they sell this blue liquid called Betta Fix. Worked wonders for mine when he was recovering from Velvet.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

fin rot doesn't USUALLY leave the rays behind..... that's pretty odd. i don't usually suggest it, but have you tried medications? NOT BettaFix or Melafix, since those can harm his labyrinth organ.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

no i havent tried medications...ive been doing salt baths cause i thought it was finrot.
so its more serious? aaaaaaahhhhhhh! 
what do you recommend?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it could still be fin rot. it's just strange to me. i've never seen fin rot that leaves the rays alone....

i don't use meds, so i honestly don't know. i know Betta and MelaFix do more harm than good.

i just googled it, and found this on a website:
"The fish should also be treated with an antibiotic that targets gram-negative bacteria, such as minocycline or kanamycin. "

maybe someone who knows more about meds can chirp up with good meds...


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I'd ask darkmoon or Sakura, they seem to be our resident experts on betta pharmacueticals


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

okay. argh im freaking out lol!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

roarsirroar, first, yeah, no Betta Fix or Melafix. It has an ingredient that can potentially harm a betta's labyrinth organ. 

When you do the salt baths, are you leaving him in the water around the clock or are you putting him in the salt water for a short time and removing him? When treating with AQ salt, unless otherwise specified (for certain types of diseases/parasites), it's best to leave the fish in the salt water around the clock during the course of treatment. If you've been removing him after a short time, that could be why he hasn't improved. 

If, however, you've been leaving him in the water on a 24/7 basis, then the salt obviously isn't working and it's time to treat him with Maracyn II. When treating with Maracyn II, be sure to keep him in a dim tank because it's a light sensitive medication and may not work as well in bright light.

It's not uncommon for bettas to lose scales but they grow back pretty fast. If he keeps losing scales though, I'd definitely recommend the medicine for sure. 

Hope this helps you. If you ever need urgent help, PM me, DarkMoon17, or Oldfishlady.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

haha yeah ive been keeping him in there  i change the water after i come from school, and then the next day, i change the water again, around the same time.
okay so maracyn II...does the temp need to be high for it to work? cause i dont have a heater for a 1 gal and room temperature is around 75-78 ishh...
how much do you think i need?

thank you all so much for you help!!!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The temp should be around 78 for him. I replied to your PM, I hope you got it.  Obviously the salt wasn't working then. He must have a pretty resistant strain of fin rot right now. Silly guy. Gotta save those fins of his, they're so pretty!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

if you can get some, Indian Almond Leaves help with fin regrowth, when ya got it under control. he's a fighter, that's for sure~! hope ya kick the rot in the butt soon!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

sakura, haha yeah i figured out that it wasnt working, but i kept doing it thinking something magical would happen lol! 78...i'll put a heater in my room 

yeah i got your message! but after i did the water change i left to eat dinner and when i came back he was on the bottom. he didnt even greet me. i moved my fingers around him to get his attention but he didnt respond. and then i was just about to leave when he jolted up and sped round and round his cave, running into the wall and everything. it was freakin SCARY. he seems just fine now...but hes never freaked out like that before...

luimeril, ive heard of those leaves...but i dont think my parents would let me buy a bag of dried leaves ;p. theyre still in that "but its just a fish" mentality!

thanks you two! after all he has been through im super determined to conquer this stressful (to me and him...more me!) finrot!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

He has one scary case of fin rot. I've never seen it present like that but he looks pretty healthy otherwise so I'm sure he'll recover. It looks like you are off to a good start too. To dose the Maracyn I find it is easiest to premix it. Put 5 cups of dechlorinated water in a clean plastic jug (milk/water/juice doesn't matter as long as it is clean). Add two packets of MaracynII (as directed on the box for the first treatment). Mix well. Use 1/2 cup to treat 1 gallon and save the rest for later. His fin rot is pretty bad so I'd use this higher dose for the first 3 days with a 100% water change between each treatment. If it gets worse continue using the higher dose. If it looks like it is improving (or at least not getting worse), then pour out the old mixture and mix up a new jug with just 1 packet MaracynII (5 cups water, 1 packet, use 1/2 mixture to treat 1 gal). We'll figure out how long to continue MaracynII treatment when we know if it helps or not. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay, DarkMoon is on the case!

roarsirroar, maybe you woke him up? Sometimes you can startle your betta awake and they'll jump or freak like that. I hope that's all it was. And if you can't get IAL (and most of us can't), you can use clean, dried oak leaves or decaffeinated green tea as tannins. The tea must be decaf and have no added flavors at all.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey guys, how do you prefer to do 100% water changes? cause with the salt i would just lower the water to as low as possible, keeping him in there. and it seemed to do just fine with him, but i don't think i can do that with the meds. i scooped him out and he was really startled. and i didn't want to put the old water in the clean tank so i netted him out, stressing him even more. i felt really bad and maybe thats why he was all crazy last night. maybe he was scared of me or something...so how do a 100% water change properly? (n00b question, i know)

darkmoon, i'll be sure to do that!!

sakura, i really hope so cause it happened again last night and also this morning. but maybe not cause this morning he was looking at me and then scooted away behind his cave. but i just got home from school and he was all happy and greetful and begging for bloodworms! maybe my fish is bipolar lol.
green tea...wouldn't that make the water all green? 

the good news is that i see progress!
got some pics! 1st one is what i woke up to this morning. it was weird cause he usually flares at the camera, but he didnt even care. this is pretty much what he looked like last night too. laying there...
2nd one is fin growth! wooot! even though the other end of his dorsal fin is ready to fall off...


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

fin growth! that's a VERY good sign!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

When I have to do 100% water changes, I use a clear plastic cup. Like the kind you drink punch out of at parties and proms. Just dip it in and 9 times out of 10, the suction sucks the little guy right in. Then you can just leave him in the cup while doing the water change. If he's a jumper, cover it with something so he can't escape.

Green tea actually makes the water all brown. The brown is the released tannins.  The darker water simulates a betta's natural habitat and helps to destress them. You get the same brown water when you use IAL or oak leaves.

I'm liking what I see with the new fin growth.  You're doing a fantastic job with him, roarsirroar.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

okay good thats what i normally do! its funny cause for the 1 gallon i used a smaller cup to put him in, and i guess he didn't like it. but today i used the one i used before he got sick (its like a volume cup) and he wasnt even stressed when i scooped him out!\

hmm do i have to buy the leave kind or can i just get the teabags? i'll ask my mom next time i go to the store.

thanks! i'm doing my best!<3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can just get teabags. Make sure it's decaf green tea, no added flavors. I think Celestial Seasonins has some, or I've also heard Wal-Mart has their own brand.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

i'll be sure to look out for it!

argh. not really a sickness question but...
i accidentally left the opening of my freeze-dried bloodworms open. its been open for at least 4 hours now.
are they still good? or has their nutritious value depleted (err however you spell that)? i really hope not cause its pretty much full to the brim.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

roarsirroar, your freeze-dried bloodworms should still be good. A little air moisture may have gotten in but that's all.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

sakura, okay thanks!

day 3 of meds. the back of the dorsal fin fell off so now his fin is quite short.

heres a pic. im not really sure if this is good progress or something bad.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

looks like more fin growth. :3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He may lose most of his fin before it starts to look like a fin again. But I agree with Luimeril, I see fin growth too.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Since some of the tissue has already died, you will probably see some additional fin loss, but that is a good thing. It is important that the dead tissues comes off so new tissue can grow and replace it. There is quite a bit of new webbing so you are definitely making some headway. I would do the higher dose for another day or two though to make sure the areas where the dead tissue fell off doesn't get infected. How is his behavior otherwise? Is he handling the meds ok?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

the yellow medicine water from yesterday is now indigo. its still good yeah?

hes been...okay. not as vibrant as before the meds, but not super depressed and lethargic. he still eats anf stuff.

yaaaay fin growth! :3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Indigo? Err, yeah, you probably want to mix up a new batch is my guess.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey i got some organinc green tea! i just put it in the tank and the water is all tinted. *its okay to use with the meds, right? *

& hold on...ive got an update and the pics are loading...


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

oh crap idk if its decaf!!
ugh...another water change it is.... -.-


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

umm...it is okay if there is a slight trace of the green tea in the water? i mean i only changed 90% of the water cause i didnt want to stress my fishie out even more, so the water has a tint of yellow. it that okay? its not going to kill him, is it? 









well now we have another problem...im guessing the finrot is trying to eat at his tail now. that hole used to be a pinhole last night...now its gaping.









and i still am not sure if this is progress or not...










-.-" this fish is giving me a headache!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's okay if there's a bit of yellow. Just watch him for any abnormal behavior changes. That's too bad about the tail but the medicines should help. As DarkMoon said, all that dead tissue has got to come off before new tissue can grow so I think that is what we're seeing. As long as the fin rot does not reach his body, we're making progress.  He looks good. I'm glad to see his fins aren't clamped up.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey its been 5 days of doing this higher dosage thing. how many days am i supposed to medicate? and should i be doing normal dosages now?

hold on...update ahead (pictures loading...)


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

day 5! so the big 'ol hole finally split. but the good news is that the dorsal fin is really coming back together! this morning he made this really cute bubble nest. 1st time in the last 7 days. i felt really bad for having to destroy it 

he was quite active today before i did a water change. more than any of the days of meds! not sure what perked him up...maybe it was the traces of green tea xD

oh yeah i never noticed this but theres this white fuzzy stuff coated on his cave. i always rinse and wipe his cave during my water changes and i have seen the white stuff float around when i throw out the water, but i'm just confused of how it is forming (i mean theres no light, so it can't be algae, and all thats in there is the fish, the cave, the thermometer, stress coat+, and the meds.) 
i dont have a picture but it looks like this (but not THAT crazy!): 










todays photos are especially crappy!! sorry!!
the last photo was taken this morning, and the second one this evening. how much it grew!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

My betta's log always gets that guck too. It's either slime coat that rubs off or just plain "snot." Harmless but annoying. And disgusting.

You may want to PM DarkMoon and ask her about the dosage since she's the one who prescribed it. She'll know best how long to treat him and and at what level. But it sounds like he's fighting on and making progress so that's good news.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Ah, that slime/snot, don't know what it is, but my snail LOVES it.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Eww I hate that slime stuff. Did you have that problem before treating him?

His fin is looking pretty good! It should be safe to lower the dose to just 1 packet. Mix it the same way as before. If it stops improving or gets worse then increase the meds again but I think he should be ok now since there has been so much regrowth. Continue with the meds for at least 5 more days with 100% daily water changes. Then stop meds and just do 100% daily water changes. If you have decaf unflavored green tea then that would be a good addition until he has finished healing. As our water often isn't the right softness/pH the fins don't always grow back right but tea softens and lowers the pH so there is a better change his fins will grow back how they were originally. Keep it up!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

no, i've never had to deal with this gross slime stuff! i checked on him this morning and the water was cloudy. it said on the med box that the water would cloud, but on a closer examination it was the SLIME! it was floating all in the water! it was so gross...

yeah i got the tea today! he was freaking out when i put the bag in. he seems okay now 

don't have pics today...my camera is charging. but the dorsal grew a little, and the tail is still torn, but now on the edge of his anal fin its starting to turn transparent and theres also a little pinhole. argh!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Cup used to tear his fins all the time. i'm sure it'll heal right back up, all nice and purdy, before ya know it!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

i probably shouldn't have used flash...but i can't go back in time sooooooo
pics!
i saw this morning that his eye has this white lining on it. its not the tissue that connects the eye to the socket cause ive never seen it like this before. maybe it swelled? im just praying to god it doesnt turn into popeye!!

the dorsal is coming along fine but the tail is still sort of rotting (theres no pic of the tail...)

hes a bit jerky this morning. like an irregular pattern of swimming. (stop. swim. stop. swim. air. lay on ground. repeat proccess.)


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hmm, do a 100% water change and remove all medications/tea. He may not have adjusted to it well. See how he does with just clean water, hopefully he'll stop. The eye does look like it could be the start of popeye but as long as you keep doing daily 100% water changes it shouldn't materialize into anything unless there is an underlying problem. Just watch it for now. Let us know how he responds to the 100% change.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

sigh...still all grumpy. he keeps hiding in his tunnel, only coming out if something interests him, or for a gulp of air. i tired feeding him but he spit it out. it was more like "oh, food!" *tries* *spit* "oh look more food!" *repeat process* with the same pellet. 

i dont know about your guys' bettas but when mine "sleeps" his gills barely move, and it pretty much looks like hes dead. my heart always stops when i come in my room to check on him and hes on the bottom, immobile.

but i gots some picssssss. he didnt flare and go crazy at the camera (which is ODD.) so the upside is that i got somewhat clear photos. i took these before i did the 100% water change. the waters not so dark because i did a pwc before you told me to do a 100%. woops!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

oh crud. didn't read your comment correctly. i still put the meds in...do you think i still have to do another 100% water change? ive changed the water like 4 times now xD


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

nevermind. i did the water change. since theres no more meds, i can turn on his light! i wanted him to feel more at home, so i gave him a little portion of the plants from his other home. hes lots more active now...checkin things out 

_sorry guys for all the posts. i update way too much in this thread._

p.s. he loves staring at that rosary! thats why i put it there :3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

His dorsal is definitely coming along. Keep up the good work, you two!  I'm glad he's more active.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

He is looking much better! How is he today? Any more comfortable?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

yup hes still all perky 

but i don't think i see any progress in his dorsal.

aaaaanddd....this happened. it seems to be thinning out.
what should i be doing? ive just been using clean water. no salt, no meds.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

keep up with the clean water, but watch that spot. x: it reminds me of Cup's dorsal(which WAS thinned out, because he'd rip it so much, overflaring), but it also looks like it could be some rot coming in. x:

he's looking great, though, with that dorsal regrowth!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The sick tissue is dying and getting ready to fall off. It's okay. He may lose a lot of his fins but that's good because it gets rid of all the bad tissue. As long as the rot doesn't progress to his body, we're on the right track with him.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

oh okay then thats good 

@Luimeril
Cup is such a cute name! :3

i put him in his old home (which is larger) and i put the water level to around 2.5 gallons but ill keep up with the daily water changes.

thanks guys!~


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're doing great, roarsirroar.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

aahh, thanks. it was a dinky name i gave him because mom had to borrow his one gallon for a few days while we sorted out ammonia issues in our 10 gallon, so he lived in his cup for a bit.

he always ripped his fins up. i had to work hard, to make sure he didn't get the 'rot. x-x he, and my tail biter Dante, were the reason i learned so much about fin issues. o.0


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

guys. GUYS. you know how dogs chase their tail? well my fishie is doing that!!!
im not sure if its stress tailbiting or not, cause im sitting right next to him and hes doing it right now, and i heard bettas tailbite when no one is watching. maybe hes annoyed by his fins...? 
wait...hes eating his fins. WHAT IS GOING ON!?!?

well i guess i should recap whats been goin on the past few days. i'm still doing 100% water changes. the anal fin is still becoming transparent. and this morning i saw that the tail was discoloring/falling off. now hes chewing on them.

what do i dooooooooooooooo?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

bump


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

bump again....
his tail is getting shorter i dont know what to do (medicate again?)


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

If he's just eating his tail, let him. Clean water like what you're doing will prevent it from becoming infected. A lot of bettas do it because their tails are too heavy for them. I'm sorry about all the issues you are having with him. I would still just keep his water clean, no medication. It looks to me like the dead and sick tissue in his anal fin is just getting ready to fall off. Is it spreading or just becoming thinner as time goes on?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi roarsirroar. Green Tea is right about the tail. Too many bettas decide to bite their tails (I have one, his veiltail is as short as a female's tail right now). It's possible he's biting rot off his tail before it advances, also possible he's biting because his tail is heavy or because he's bored or frustrated. No one ever knows why a betta bites. 

His anal fin, however, is a whole new issue. The dead tissue is definitely falling off but if the blackened dead area advances any further toward his body, it's not good news. I can't remember his medication history, though. I know he's been in Maracyn II but for how long and how many treatments? If it's only been one, we may want to start up a second course if the black rot continues to advance.

In the meantime, continue to keep the water as clean as possible. Hang in there!


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

oh okay so its normal  yaaaaaaay

its weird about his anal fin...its not really _rotting._ it just seems as if the color is being sucked out of his fin. cause the fin is still there, its just transparent.

i treated him with maracyn II for about 6 days...based on this thread i stopped treating meds on the 17th.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's definitely weird about his anal fin. I'm really not quite sure what to think about that. 

If you like, you can PM DarkMoon and see if she recommends starting a second course of Maracyn II. She may be able to shed some light on his anal fin, too.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah part of the reason I dont keep long finned bettas anymore is that their tail biting drives me insane! Good luck with your boy there. Just keep his water clean. I'm sorry you're having so many fin issues, it can be really frustrating.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

wanna see why I don't keep long fins? 









that's Ichi. ya can't tell, but he's a Delta Tail.

all i'm doing, to help his fins grow back, is re-arrange his decor, keep his water clear, and giving him a neighbor he can see(since Theo died, it's Spy, my female copper yellow doubletail. she don't mind him, and he enjoys watching her. i swear, he's wonderfully social!)

he had black edges on his fins just the other night, when i did his 100% water change. i didn't add anything, and it's cleared up already.

but, your darling's rot is a horrid, horrid thing. D: i really hope you can clear it up! maybe.... that odd thing on his anal's just a freaky color change? Dx that's honestly, what i'm hoping.....


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

ahaha maybe next time i should get a plakat!
yeah i have no idea about the anal fin...lol if it is a color change then wow its a 180 haha
saukra, thats a good idea. but i pmed her about the tailbiting thing and she never responded...
greentea, yeah im trying my best! its quite stressful to put in so much time and effort just for a little fish, but at least i feel good that im preventing death from such an energetic little guy 
luimeril, aww poor ichi  its weird how bettas tail bite. if i were a betta i wouldnt want to eat my fins!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

you would think you wouldn't, but they do it for many reasons. if their fins are too heavy for them, they'll shred them and not let up. if they're stressed, they'll do it, kinda like how some humans bite their nails. Ichi, did it after Theo died. he's doing better now. but, if it makes him happy to have such a short tail, i'm fine with it. :3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

roarsirroar, DarkMoon may be busy with school. It's midterm/finals time for a lot of colleges right now. If she doesn't respond in a few days, we'll just have to go ahead and make a decision. 

I wish my halfmoon would bite his tail. It's so big it literally drags him down and the edges are all frayed. He's more like a fullmoon. But he never bites. My veiltail, on the other hand, goes to town on his dinky tail.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

yeah she pmed me and i completely understand 
awh. poor fish! its crazy how people have bred them so many times to make the fins that big. as beautiful as it is, they never cared to think of how the fish will cope with it.
@luimeril, yeah i totally understand! its just its hard for me to watch his pretty fins deplete (sp?).

i think his tail is growing..idk either growing or rotting lol. oh and his anal fin is FINALLY rotting. its turning all ashy and yucky lol. i'll post pics in a little while...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Weird, I've never heard of a fin rotting the way his anal fin has. He's writing new rules on fin rot, haha.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

pic timeee!


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

woah uhm, sorry if this has been answered, but is that holes in the fin? or is it like his fins are draining of colour? sorry to side track.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

the ones on the tail and that little hole on the anal fin are legit holes. the pink-white colums on the anal fin are the draining of color


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

that's so freaky, sorry, just being a paranoid momma, my boy has the same colouring, is a tail biter, and I see the red wash in his anal fin. I'm sure you can understand. I hope you can help him get better.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Oh wow, his anal fin is really something... Well, it's good that is is finally going to fall off. How long has he been in just clean water? If he has had at least 5-7 days of clean water then you can start with 1-2tsp Aquarium Salt to prevent infection while he is sloughing off that dead tissue. He may have been going after his caudal if it was infected as well. Sometimes, especially if it is irritating or painful, they will purposefully bite off infected tissue. Hopefully it won't become a habit. His dorsal looks really good, keep it up! And I gotta say, that last pic is adorable!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

His dorsal looks better. I don't see the nasty black anymore. You're doing really well with him, roar. You're fighting this well. 

He looks like my late Moped and kind of similar to my current Admiral Floaty McFloatsalot.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey, sorry for the late reply!

darkmoon: i'm doing 2tsp/gal in his 1.5 gallon right now. funny thing is that the anal fin isnt budging. its just a little grey on the tips, but the transparency seems to be going away (veeeerryy slowly but surely!)
yeah i hope thats the reason why he tailbited. he bit off more but i think hes stopped (maybe cause he can't reach it anymore lol)

silverfang: thanks, and its okay 

sakura: thanks! but i really couldn't do it without you and darkmoon and everyone else who has been helping me


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

GUYS PLEASE HELP!!!
okay so i fed him 2 pellets like i normally do and i changed his water and then i went to a party. this was 5 hours ago. now ive come back from the party and he looks like THIS!! when i left his belly was normal and now it has ballooned! also, a few days ago he got a knick/bump on his head from an ornament (which i took out immediately) and i thought the salt should help heal that too but this morning it looked like a white scab. not only does he have that but now he has a crazy stomach! hes pretty lethargic and sluggish and i think i should lower the water.
the water is like 70F and i should really get a heater.

_so what do you think it is? parasites? sbd?_


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Do a 100% water change and switch him to 2tsp/gal Epsom salt. Try as best as you can to increase the temperature. It really needs to be around 80*F (more if possible) to help support his immune system if it is bacterial. Perform daily 100% water changes (you may want to quarantine him in something smaller). How long have you been using Aq. Salt?

Is he having any trouble swimming?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

im getting a heater today! 
his stomach has gone down quite a bit but i dont understand how cause theres no poop or anything.
ive been doing AQ salt treatment for 5 days now

last night he was sluggish and at one point he clamped his pectoral fins and did this really creepy shark-like swim.
but this morning he seems to be more active (and more aggressive). hes swimming normally.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

his fins seem almost normal now! i think that freaky thing with his anal fin was more of a freaky color change. Cup went through one of those with his dorsal. it went pure white, then turned a beautiful pale blue that i just couldn't catch on camera.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

haha yeah i was relieved to see that it was coloring up again!

ive got a question about the heater...
can i get a 25 watt heater to heat this vase? its 3.5 gallons, but idk if the tallness will be a problem...

p.s. this is a really old photo. but you get the gist.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Roar, a 25w will work great, just try and make sure you get an adjustable one if possible. How is his stomach doing today?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

im really stumped on which heater i should buy...
theres the hydor theo 25w: http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-THEO-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0006JLPG8
and then theres the eheim jager 25w: http://www.amazon.com/EHEIM-Jager-Aquarium-Thermostat-Heater/dp/B00425AXQA
theres a thread on here that has a bunch of heater reviews...i read that.

his stomach is normal now. but he still has that white stuff on his head. there was a knick there and now the white stuff is coming out of it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Eheim Jaeger is a good brand but I did discover mine won't go past 79 degrees even though the thermostat does read more. So if you ever had to battle ich and turn up the heat, the Eheim won't cut it. Also, they tend to be on the long side so they don't always fit in short/small tanks. 

Are you ordering online or buying in a store? If you are ordering online, then I would suggest the Cascade 25w. I have about 5 or 6 of them, plus a 100w for my 20gL and so far they are the best heaters I have. Otherwise, I would go with the Hydor. 

Does the white stuff coming from the wound look like it's moving or alive? Is it definitely coming from the wound or from around it?


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

Hmm...ok i think i'll go see if my local petco has the hydor but if not i'll take the cascade in consideration. i'm just a little skeptical about the price.

the white stuff is coming out of the scale/wound. it doesn't seem to be moving.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Is the price high? At my pet store, it's only $14 or so. But the Hydor is a good brand too so no worries.

That's odd about his wound. Normally if there is white stuff, it is excess slime coat. But it wouldn't be coming directly out of the wound but from the surrounding area. And usually white stuff emerging from a wound or hole in the body is anchor worms. 

Does he seem affected by it in any other way? The epsom salt should help to sterilize the wound and keep it from getting infected.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

you respond fast 
no the price is actually really low. on some sites its like 10 bucks. usually cheap price = cheap product. but you seem to have good experience with the brand. i think i'll just be safe and get the hydor 

he acts just fine. haha this fish has so many weird problems!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

For the injury, increase the Aq. Salt concentration to at least 2 tsp/gal. It should go away with a higher concentration... It's a bit strange that it happened at all considering he is already in Aq. Salt though. 

There are far too many heaters to choose from...


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey darkmoon! i got your message 
funny thing is that i've been doing 2tsp/gal this whole time.

its crazy how many brands there are. and reviews dont help too much cause one says theyre incredibly reliable but the other says its a piece of crap. shame that the bad brands are the only ones petsmart sells. and i was so looking forward to using a $10 off coupon...


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Then I guess just let him be. If it gets worse then we can increase it to 3tsp/gal but with all he's been through it would be best to go no higher than 2tsp/gal.

I know right? I'm really starting to hate Petsmart, everything they sell is worthless. They don't sell any good food or heater brands. The only thing they have going for them is that they do sell medications. But their "halfmoons" aren't even halfmoons and their fish are always sick so meh... I don't go there very often anymore. Good luck on your quest! I've really only come to like Top Fin heaters for whatever reason... but I don't think they have 25watt ones.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I was just at my Petsmart and they had a "halfmoon" betta whose back was severely deformed. Poor thing, I wanted to buy it so bad. 

Roar, it's the same way with filters. Some people will rave about a filter and others will hate it. There are too many choices! Why can't one company just make one good product, instead of a whole bunch of companies making mediocre things? Sigh. And DarkMoon, I agree with you about Petsmart. The only electrical type aquarium thing I buy from there is a light strip. The heater selection stinks.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

hey sorry for the reeeaaallly late reply.
i ended up buying the elite 50w cause there was nothing else (since i cant buy online...). http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Submersible-Preset-Heater-25-Watt/dp/B00106X8QG/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
i just got it like 10 minutes ago so i cant really review it yet.

his fins are getting really better! no more rot.

o and btw im super scared of heaters (blowing up and frying fish and whatnot) 
anyone have this heater? any tips or whatevas?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I know Tisia has used Elite heaters. For the most part, heaters are pretty reliable, especially adjustable ones. The best way to avoid any accidents is to get a thermometer. That way you can check the temp without having to rely on what hte heater says. 

I'm glad his fins are getting better. That's great, great news.


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## roarsirroar (Jun 16, 2011)

thats good to hear but turns out the darn thing can only go to 74F until turning off. is that normal or do i have a defect?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That seems to be a defect. A heater should go to at least 78 before turning off. :/


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