# Single white spot on chin.



## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

I have a small school of neon tetras(5) in with my Betta. Today when I was feeding I noticed 2 of my neons have a single white bump/growth on their chins right at their mouth. They are acting normal and they ate but this is rather concerning becuase I didnt see it yesterday. 

As I said they are in a tank with my betta. He is also acting normally and does not have this white spot. He is eating and does not seem lethargic.

I havent ever had anything like this with any other fish. What could it be? Is it a fungus? Bacteria? NTD? As I said the two neons with the white bump on their lip are acting normal. Other than the white spot they look normal as well. They are eating. It is a single white spot so that is what is confusing me. I dont think it is ick. I have never encountered cotton mouth but honestly that doesnt seem right either? 


What shoudl I do? Help please? I dont want to lose any fish (especially my betta). Should I pick up a fungal treatment? What will be safe for the betta, the snail, and the tetras?

Please any thoughts or suggestions welcome. I am worried. I dont want whatever is affecting these two tetras to spread or end up affecting my betta.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Personally, I would remove the two neons and float them in a tubberware in the larger tank for a bit (being sure to do 100% water changes daily in the tubberware). This way they can hang out with the school, but they're seperated, just in case, and you can keep an eye on them.

A picture would be wonderful... I personally am not completely sure it's an issue, but I don't want to brush it off without looking at it, because some infections and diseases don't actually flare up super bad until it's too late. Does it look a raised mound, or a little bit of clear fuzz? Or does it look sunken and dull, or normal, just white?


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

I was trying to get pictures but they just move too quickly. It is a small white bump. Definately raised. It sort of reminds me of a white head pimple. As I said it is on their bottom lip almost chin area. One tetra has a slightly larger bump than the toher. It doesnt seem to be fluffy or cottony.Their color seems to be the same, they are active, dont seem to have stressed breathing, and they all ate when I fed them.

I am concened it may be a fungus becuase they are new to the tank and I know there is always stress with new tanks? (They have been in there about 2 and a half weeks)

I prolly wouldnt even think to be concerend if it werent for the fact that it wasnt there previously. 

I am wondering if it would be a bad idea to run and pick up some Melafix and try treating the tank as a preventative type thing? I read salt is bad for snails and can kill them?


How would you go about setting up the floater? The tank they are in is a 10gal so I am afraid there wont be enough room? And we are the process of moving so I dont actually have a second tank availible for hospital atm.

Uhg I am kinda worried. 


Oh also it is a planted tank. That may be info that is needed.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Just get as large of a tubberware as will float in there (I've managed to fit a gallon and a half tubberware pretty well)... It won't give them much room, but I don't like taking risks of them possibly infecting others... random white bumps never seem to be a good thing. Cooper and salt kill snails very quickly... I'm not sure what ingredients melafix have, but check for that... I personally don't like dosing meds, especially when I don't know what the ailment is, because once you start a medication, you have to carry it all the way out to prevent pathogens becoming resistant to it. Along with that, tetras tend to be sensitive to meds. :/

It doesn't sound like a typical columnaris, which is a good thing. I hate columnaris. Hate it. However, it doesn't sound like anything that puts an "ah-hah" diagnosis in my head. Ich is small, and clustered for the most part. Bacterial typically become fin rot or body rot, which it doesn't sound like.....

I'm sorry... I'm going to have to do a bit of reading and see if I can figure out what it could be.


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

Thank you so much JKfish! 
I have been reading a bunch sicne I noticed the spots. A lot of people have said it could be fungal and to add aquarium salts but I dont want to kill my snail. They also say that MelaFix and Primafix have helped iwth these. They are both fungal treatemnts not 100% on ingredients but I did call and my local Walmart carries it. I am hesitent to treat with meds too but part of me is kinda thinking better safe than sorry since I cant use salts. 

But then some people say it could just be an injury from nipping at others in the school. It seems to be mentioned about a lot of schooling fish. 

The spots seem to be very much located in the same spot. Like I said small pimple like white spot that is on the bottom lip. I can almost 100% say it isnt ich. I have dealt with ich before and I have never seen it come up like this. It normally starts on the body not the face and in me expereicne there is always more than one ich spot even early on. 

Cottonmouth is the one I havent dealt with but from looking at pics and reading I dont think that is what this is unless it is just super early stages. Like I said it doesnt look soft or fuzzy it seems more pimple like to me. 

I am prolly far to concerned considering everyone is eating, schooling, chasing eachother, and still brightly colored. But I would hate to miss something and have it get worse and then lose my whole tank, ya know? I have had that happen before and the thought if it happeneing agin is very unpleasent.

I am thinking I will do a 25% water change tomorrow (my levels are showing normal but it cant hurt right?). I am going to try to find a tupperware container that I cant put them in but I am a little concerned about them getting enough air? Like I said I have never done that before. I am going to do more reading and googling and I will try again to get a decent picture because I know how much they help. And Part of me wants to run to the store just to have the fungal meds on hand but I dont know. 

Anyone else with experience or thoughts would be much appreciated.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Buying the meds just in case would be a good idea... I remember my bettas all got a horrible case of cottonmouth/columnaris out of the blue, and I wasn't prepared for it.

Schooling fish do nip, it's to establish a pecking order, but the worst I've seen is slightly torn fins. They don't typically bite the body.

If you decide to seperate the two, you could dose the tubberware water with 1 tsp of salt per gallon... you might have to make a solution mixed together in a bucket, and just do a 100% water change with the already mixed up water once a day. That way you'll be treating the two who are showing symptoms, but you don't have to worry about the whole tank. It's sort of like a floating hospital tank, which allows them to feel a bit safe since they can see their home and other tankmates, but keeps them seperate. If you are worried about them not getting enough oxygen, try using a long, shallowish tubberware. The greater surface area will allow for more oxygen inside the water itself.

Researching hasn't come up with a difinitive answer yet. I've seen a lot that make it sound fungal as well, so aq salt is a great idea.


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

Okay. I was able to get some pics. Here is what I have they arent the best but hoepfully you can see it is as well as I can.




















































So far my plans are to do a water change tomorrow. Pick up Melafix the anti fungal tomorrow. Get aquarium salt tomorrow. What else should I do? Maybe get a. anti bacterial?

Incase it is cotton mouth is it bacterial or fungal?

Ihg I am gonna try not to drive myself crazy tonight because there isnt much I can do but what do you think it is??? :question:


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

Sorry bumping this up. Still no clue what it is! Help please!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Any sign of internal parasites?


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

A water change would be a very good idea 

If it is cotton mouth/columnaris, you'd need to buy Maracyn 1 and 2, to cover all the bases... They can be a bit expensive, but if you decide to buy them, they're always handy to have on hand for emergencies. 

I'm not sure where, but I think I remember reading about melafix actually damaging the labrynth organ in bettas ... Lemme go find where I read that and make sure I'm remembering correctly...

anyways, I'm still thinking qt-ing the two fish in a tubberware with 1 tsp of aq salt per gallon will help. That, and clean water... The aq salt typically is very good battling off the illnesses, whether they arefungal or bacterial.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Melafix and Primafix will hurt your Betta if too much is used. You'll be best off taking him out until that is all taken care of.


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

JKfish said:


> anyways, I'm still thinking qt-ing the two fish in a tubberware with 1 tsp of aq salt per gallon will help. That, and clean water... The aq salt typically is very good battling off the illnesses, whether they arefungal or bacterial.


 

Do you think short soaks in the salt water (15-30 minutes) will still be able to help? I am really worried about killing my snail trying to treat the tetras. I cant find a tupperware container that I is even close to a gallon around the house. I do have a pitcher I could use if it is more short term but I would be worried about making sure there was enough oxygen in the water. 

It doesn't seem like a parasite to me. No one is rubbing on anything are acting strangely. 


Everyone is still acting normal, happy, and healthy. No one seems sluggish or pale. They are all swimming actively. 

I did a water change (little over 25%) and bought some aquarium salt. My store didnt even have Melafix the only anti fungal they had was Jungle Fungus Clear fizz tabs. It says the active ingredients are Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, and Potassium Dichromate. Claims to be safe for all aquarium fish and plants?
I went ahead and grabbed a pack of it since it was all they had but I have NOT used it yet. I thought it was better to have something tho since I will have to order anything else in the mail. 


Has anyone seen this before? What does it look like? The fact that I cant seem to get any answers from searching is a little disconcerting.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Salt baths/soaks would need high ammounts of salt to get anything done, and I'd be afraid that it'd shock the neons... Do you have any plant scraps you wouldn't mind tossing into a tubberware to provide a bit of oxygen? 1 tsp of salt per gallon isn't ver much, and a hardy plant should do fine for a day or so  Do you just so happen to have an airline and airstone? If you do, you could hook those up.

I'm sorry, but I don't have much experience with many actual medications, so I can't give very much advice in that regard... for the most part I've been lucky enough to be able to fix almost every single illness I've come across with plain old salts (aquarium or epsom) and clean water. :/


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

I have a 5 gallon bucket. Do you think they would be okay in that? Its not clear but I could put all 5 in it and kinda treat them together? Anytime I have ever had sick fish they have all been sick and I have needed to treat them so this is new ground for me. 

How many days do you think I should keep them in the seperate container? Their tank is planted so U do have a plant I could toss in the bucket with them. Or like I said I have a few pichers? Or I do have smaller tuperware bowls that I could still float in the tank but they arent a gallon. 

Do you think whatever it is is in the main tank water now? even if I take the tetras out will it still be in the water with the betta and snail? 

I just wish I knew what it was so I knew how to treat it.


Edit to add: Are these the two medications you mentioned? I cant seem to find anything that says Maracyn 1.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

That 5 gallon will work well, so long as it is clean  Do you have an extra heater you could toss in? By plant, I just mean anything that you wouldn't mind tossing in there and risking it dying. It could be a few plant clippings or an actual plant. 

Treating all of them would be a good idea. If possible, I'd do a very large water change in the main tank as well while you're treating the tetras. 

As odd and worrying as it is not to know what you're treating, I wouldn't freak out. Aquarium salt is a wonderful, amazing thing. It has battled columnaris, finrot, ich, velvet, internal parasites, etc, and for the most part won in about 10 days (Columnaris excluded :/ ).

Yes, those are Maracyn and Maracyn 2.


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

As I said I did a a little over 25% water change today (may have actually been a little closer to 50%) How big of water change should I do in the main tank and when? How often? Normally I do about 25% once a week or so and then a good gravel clean and a 50% change once every month or month and a half depending on how it looks. 

Everyone ate supper today. They are all still very active. Only sign of any sickness is the white bumps on their chins that I posted pictures of. They havent seemed to have gotten any bigger or smaller. Betta still seems unaffected. 

I don't have an extra heater anymore sadly. My backup went out a while ago and I havnet had a chance to pick one up. That is why I was asking about salt baths earlier.Currently I have the two sick ones floating in a small tupperware container (with salt) in the tank but they dont seem to like it much. 

My boyfreind has decided it is fish herpes and they will never be cured no mater what lol. 

I did go ahead and order the maracyn from amazon but it will take a few days to get here. 

Fingers crossed no one else gets sick and everyone makes it through this whatever it is!


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Haha, that's one way to look at it.

And yeah, I don't think the neons will be happy, but they'll just have to deal with it until, they're better XD . It's a good sign though that everyone is eating and doing well.


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