# Planning



## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

My little guy bit his tail a few weeks ago. Since he has never had a tail-biting habit before, and hasn't done it since, I assume he is lonely (It was around the time my brother's betta died, he was in a separate tank but they knew of each other). He is in a half gal quarantine tank currently. 

Long story short, while he's recovering, I want to do a 360 on my tank. It is an under-decorated 10gal with nothing covering the bottom. In addition, I want to cycle it (It's never been cycled), and prepare it for two or more Cory Catfish as well. I will be adding the Corys first, so that I don't have a big territory problem with my betta. Hopefully this will make my betta get over his loneliness. I'd also like to add some plants, real and fake. 

I've read the guides here, and since I'm taking on a lot, I'd like to share my plan, hear your opinions, and ask some questions. In advance, thank you for your help and consideration!

*What I have:
*
- 1 Veil-tailed bi-coloured splendens betta male, named Mako
- 10 gallon tank
- 2 silk leaf hammocks
- 1 scratch-tested colosseum decoration, size medium
- 1 scratch-tested plant / cave combo decoration, size small
- Medium-sized gravel (Will not be using for the tank makeover)
- 1 Fluval Thermostat hang-on-back Heater (Which I highly recommend!)
- 1 Tetra Whisper 10i Internal Power hand-on-back Filter, low flow (Also highly recommend!)
- 2 overhead lights built into tank lid
** As for stuff that may or may not be part of the tank makeover process: Pellet betta food, bloodworms (freeze-dried, frozen), daphnia (Freeze-dried), mysis (Freeze-dried), water conditioner, water softener, aquarium salt, epsom salt, BettaFix, Tetra Fungus Guard, waste remover, soft net, sponge tank cleaner, two quarantine tanks, each a half gal.

*What I intend to get:
*
- Substrate, probably sand.
- 1-2 Aquarium plants. Must be compatible with betta, catfish, substrate, low-flow filter, temperature of between 75F and 80F, and artificial light (Tank light and external lamp available. Sunlight very limited). Not being used as decoration or fish habitation, more so being used to keep toxin levels down.
- 1-4 Cory Catfish, or any other fish compatible with betta, substrate, plants, decorations, filter, and tank temperature between 75F and 80F. 
- Cory Catfish food, or other fish food.
- 1 Soft, blue plant, size medium - large, for Mako to camouflage with. 
- 1 Submergible platform, to create more of a distinction for the territories of the fish. 
- 1 alternative decoration, size large. (Will be a smooth driftwood root / cave system that breaks surface of tank to reduce jumping. Blue/Grey colour so Mako can camouflage)

*My Process:
*
1) Empty tank. Clean tank, filter, heater, and decorations with hot water and salt. 
2) Add plants and substrate. Not sure how to plant the plants, so that process of which to add first and whether or not there needs to be a lot of water and light is still up in the air. 
3) Add decorations.
*Optional* I may or may not leave the tank for three months in order to let the substrate settle and become condensed. If I do, then I will cycle after three month and use the tank explicitly for caring for and growing the plants until then. 
4) Add filter and heater. 
5) Start the cycling process: plant method with no fish. 
6) Once the cycle is complete, or a few days before, I will buy catfish and their food. When tank is safe, add catfish.
7) Take care of the catfish for a while to make sure they are okay in the tank. If I am buying four, I will add them one-by-one, or two-by-two. Name the catfish at some point.
8) Once the catfish are acclimated, add Mako. 

From there, it's the obvious care and maintenance. If Mako doesn't get along with the catfish, I already have someone else willing to take them and the food. Mako will then stay in the tank. If the time comes and the person does not want the catfish anymore, I have a 3gal tank that I will keep them in with the same substrate and one of the decorations from the cycled tank. 

There's a lot of stuff covered in this plan that I still don't know a lot about yet. If anyone is willing to give me recommendations for plants or other fish, I would really appreciate it. Also, I acknowledge that there may be some parts of this plan that will not work. If anyone is willing to correct anything written here that is uninformed, again I would very much appreciate that.

To everyone who has taken the time to read and / or respond, thank you very much!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi  sounds like a big project!

For live plants you will need sunlight bulbs, or in other words, lighting as close to 6500k as possible 

For cories i recommend a sand substrate. and it's friendly to their barbels and constant substrate sifting. They also prefer to be in groups of 4 or more. otherwise they may get very lonely.

Sand is already quite compact when you add it to the tank. I've never heard of waiting three months for the substrate to compact. where did you read his?

My personaly preference for planting is to do it when the thank is not yet filled. I would make sure the substrate is wet however, to hold down the plants

I noticed there is a "water softner" in your list of additional items. What is it exactly?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Hai aokashi, thank you for your post!

I will get the bulbs and I am probably going to get 4 catfish. If I can though, I will test to see whether or not Mako reacts to just one first. 

I got a pamphlet on silt at PetSmart, and it said you could optionally wait for the silt to compact before adding fish so that not only would food and waste stay at the top, but you could use a waste remover to remove these things without sucking up the silt, and the filter wouldn't stir too much of it up. But I also read that Corys like to stick their heads in sand to look for food, so I'm probably going to get sand instead of silt. 

The water softener is an additive that I put in my tank water with the conditioner. While my conditioner neutralizes heavy metals, it does not change my water hardness to the level that betta fish need. Instead of adding lots of conditioner, I just add water softener. I have experimented with just leaving the water out for a day or leaving it in an absorbent plastic bottle, but the water softener works the best. For some reason my tap water is stubborn and I cannot reduce the hardness through any other method. 

Actually, I was wondering whether or not Corys are scaleless fish, because I understand that, in that case, the less additives the better. If they are, I will probably stop using the softener or find something compatible with them. Also, obviously no salt or medicine.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Sounds good!

Unfortunately the water softener does not truly soften it water. instead it is adding salt in to the water to exchange out magnesium and calcium ions. Beta fish don't really like salt either ^_^
It's probably best to stick with whatever come out of your tap. even if it's rock hard water~ betta fish are pretty adaptable.
Corys are scaless fish. however there have been no confirmation that they react badly to salt...
Personally I wouldn't use salt anyway ^_^


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Well, Mako's fins were curling because of the hardness of the water. Since I've been using the water softener, they've gone back to normal.

Also, according to my testing kit the softener actually does reduce my hardness. 

Aside from that, bettas actually have a high salt tolerance. 

I'm not sure what to do without the softener other than use filtered water, but I know this isn't necessarily good for the fish, and definitely not good for the plants.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Bettas certainly do have high salt tolerance. However they are also soft water fish...
Where salt can cause kidney problems for fish, hard water causes a more aesthetic problem.
So here comes a dilemma huh? ^_^

Plants generally love hardwater ~

What I meant by the water isn't truly softened is the fact that the minerals have not actially been removed from the water


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

The problem with curling fins is that it isn't only an aesthetic problem. Irreversible damage could occur and the curling will become permanent. Because he is in such a deep tank, I don't want anything inhibiting Mako's ability to swim.

Also, salt encourages slime coat growth and kills parasites. It's not like I'm putting actual salt in his water either. But it sounds like we'll end up agreeing to disagree on this topic. 

I'll probably stop using the hardener when I get the plants since they will alter the water anyways.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Lol ^_^ I don't mind~ personal preference really :3 Salt does cause skyrocketing TDS though XD probably why I try to keep it away from my fish~

I'm not sure what you mean by plants altering the water?


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Excuse my relative noobish-ness, but what is TDS?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

JustinieBeanie said:


> Excuse my relative noobish-ness, but what is TDS?


Total Dissolved Solids ^___^


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh thank you! And judging from earlier posts, very high total dissolved solids are not good? What do they do exactly, and what happens when they are "skyrocketing"?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

JustinieBeanie said:


> Oh thank you! And judging from earlier posts, very high total dissolved solids are not good? What do they do exactly, and what happens when they are "skyrocketing"?


I think generally kidney problems~ especially for soft water fish.
I'm not an expert on the matter, lol.
But for details you you read this article Byron wrote ^_^

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...al-solids-tss-tds-freshwater-aquarium-122027/


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Great thank you for the link! While I've never owned a fish, over the years I've done some research on keeping them, but I'd never even read that term before in my research, so thanks for clearing that up! We have pretty hard water here it seems like (at least compared to every where I've traveled in recent memory)


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

I realize now that you meant "soft water fishes" as in fish that need to be kept in soft water, not fish that are kept in soft water because that's what their owners happened to put them in! Doh! One of the freshwater articles on tropical fish keeping mentions goldfish, live bearers, and Rift Valley Cichlids as being hard water fishes. What are bettas considered, as far as soft or hard water?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

bettas spelndens are considered soft water fish ^___^
but since they've been "domestic" for so long (they can't survive in the wild, lol) they are now quite tolerant of hard water.


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Ok that's good to hear, but is there a limit on how hard the water can be? Maybe I should test how hard my water is before trying to put a fish in it. Are those water softeners they sell at the pet store A) actually worthwhile, B) any different from the domestic water softeners available, C) and really safe for fish, as I've heard they change salt levels?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

It has a lot to do with your specific betta.
Even in the wild, betta habitats range from extremely hard water to extremely soft water.
The best thing to do is ask the breeder when you purchase the betta what kind of water it has grown in, or do a test on the water it is placed in when you buy it. 
My boy grew up in soft water, whereas my brother's jumbo betta grew up in hard water. 
Without the minerals in hard water, bettas will become nutrient deficient. This is why conditioning (And softening if need be) can be considered better than placing your betta in filtered water, because filtered water does not contain any nutrients, while conditioned and softened water contains the same nutrients, but they are no longer harmful to the fish.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

I could really use some advice as to which live plants to get that are compatible with bettas, corys, and mystery snails


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

All of them! I kind of subscribe to the mix of moss/stem/crypt/roseate plants, and stuff it full. My guys love wiggling around on top of floaters or high growers. 

Beware, plants do not like salt (usually). You may need to look into salt tolerance of individual species. 

It is also normal for plants to "melt" at first, before putting out new growth. That can lead to ammonia spikes for a while. Extra testing is usually a good idea until everything settles down. 

!0 gallons sounds like lots of fun to plant! It's going to be beautiful.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Alright! I just priced this out on PetSmart!
Also made some more decisions on what I need to get. Here it is, wish me luck and PLEASE, I will take any advice! (Prices before tax. Only reg. prices shown, not including current sales, of which there are many). Prices rounded to the nearest tenth. Underlined is what I intend to purchase.

_REQUIRED_

*Tank Substrate:* Top Fin Betta Sand OR Top Fin Betta Crushed Pebble
MIN (3) - $15 
MAX (5) - $25

*Large Decoration:* Top Fin Grey Tree Root Ornament
$25

*Live Plants:*

Java Fern Plant
$7

Water Wisteria Plant
$5

Anubius Plant
$9

Moneywort Plant
$4.30

*Plant Bulb:* Zoo Med Flora Sun Maximum Plant Growth
MIN (1): $16
MAX (2): $32

*Green Cory Catfish* (At PJ's Pet Store)
MIN (1): $2
MAX (4): $8

*Mystery Snail*
MIN (1): $3.50
MAX (3): $10.50
Will purchase (2): $7

_OPTIONAL_

*Albino Cory*
MIN (1): $4
MAX (2): $8
(I might mix the Albinos in with the Greens during or after tank set up. If during, I will buy two Albinos and two Greens. My goal is to add two fish at a time if possible, maximum four fish at a time. If addition is after set-up, the plan is four Greens and two Albinos. Since the Albinos are smaller, I'm toying with the idea of doing only (4) Albino catfish and no Greens. I read that Corys can get aggressive if they are much bigger than another fish, and my Mako is just over 2". Greens grow to 4", and Albinos grow to 3". Thoughts? )

*Silk / Plastic Plant:* Top Fin Plastic Plant Variety Pack
$8 
(I will investigate this, I'm actually looking for a silk plant that I know PetSmart sells, but all that's on their site is plastic. If they don't have silk, I'll check other places)

*Replacement Tank Lid:* Aqueon Incandescent Full Economy Aquarium Hood
$30
(If I can't fix the faulty wiring in mine, I will have to buy a new one)

Min Budget: $100
Max Total: $161.30

***All values in CND


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Thank you for your post, VJM!
I am kind of planning to rush this, but since reading your post, I think I will set up the substrate, decorations, and plants, and then take care of the plants exclusively to make sure there are no problems.
I appreciate the warning!


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Also, I will add more plants, like moss, or floating decorations after I am sure the fish are comfortable / after i have made sure there is enough space. XD


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

Good plan! Plants can be sort of overwhelming at first, so getting them sorted before you add animals is less stress on you.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

I've started the cycle.

I started off with an amazon sword plant, a water wisteria plant, and two mystery snails, and let that sit for a day with water conditioner and Topfin Bacteria Supplement (Recommended by a PetSmart employee). Then I took my water back to PetSmart for the free test and explained to the 'Fish Expert' employee that this was only after a day. She said that my water was already stable (Which could be confirmed by my snails, which are usually stressed when moving into a new tank, but acclimated after less than 12 hours of being in my tank) and that I could get 2 green cory's, but that would start the cycle. I added two small green cory's yesterday. 

Here is my current water status:

Housing 

What size is your tank? *10 gallons. *
What temperature is your tank? *78F*. 
Does your tank have a filter? *Yes*.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *No*.
Is your tank heated? *Yes*. 
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *Betta in quarantine right now, only 2 snails and 2 cory catfish in the tank with 2 underwater plants*. 

Food

What type of food do you feed your fish? *Floating betta pellets for the snails, sinking algae wafers for the catfish*.
How often do you feed your fish? *About 10 pellets a day for the snails (And they eat it pretty fast), one wafer a day for BOTH catfish (They haven't eaten yet, I had to remove one wafer after 14 hours, and just added another one today)*. 

Maintenance 

How often do you perform a water change? *Cleanup / top up daily (500ml max), 25% at start of cycle (Today, to lower nitrates and nitrites), 20 - 30% weekly*. 
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *Nutrafin Aqua +Plus Water Conditioner, Top Fin Bacteria Supplement*. 

Water Parameters:

Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0.02 
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: 1 - 20ppm
pH: 6.8 - 7.2ppm
Hardness: 150ppm
Alkalinity: 120ppm

After these readings, I did a 25% water change. I noticed some erosion on my snail's shell, and the water change bumped my pH back up to 8.2. My water is really stubborn and never goes as low as 6.8 pH, I don't know what happened there. I removed my filter this morning to find brown stuff all over the cartridge. There seemed to be none of it anywhere else. I threw out the cartridge and replaced it with a new one. I heard that you're supposed to leave it in, but my mom saw it and demanded that I throw it out... She also demanded that I turn the filter off at night, which I'm sure has caused some damage. It was left off for 10 hours. The fish seem fine, not eating yet, but just getting used to the tank. The snails are clinging to the surface though. The plants are doing great considering that I'm not using fertilizer and just stuck them in the sand (PetSmart employee recommendation). 

Questions:

How long can the catfish go without eating?
I know they are hardy fish, and when a betta is stressed, you can see it in the form of a pale face and discolouration. How do you tell if a green cory catfish is stressed? 
What kind of water parameters will cause the catfish to get sick / ill?
Will they survive the cycle at this rate?
My black mystery snail seems to be producing a lot of waste and hasn't moved today. Does this sound normal? 
How can I tell if I've overfed the fish or snails? 

I have a quarantine bowl standing by for the cory's and snails. It is filled with the water from the bags I got them in. I also have fresh water standing by. If I need to remove them, I can quickly and easily. 

What do you guys think about this cycle so far?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

My Nitrite went UP after the water change... 3.0ppm now


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

There are a lot of issues here. I will come back after work and try to address them. For now:

1. Your tank is not cycled. 
2. Starting/keeping a tank cycle with the filter off is going to be difficult.Once it is established, you MAY be able to take the filter out, or you may not. 
3. Brown stuff on the filter is good. By tossing the filter, you restarted your cycle. 

I would return the cories and cycle the tank. At this point, I would do fish in cycle. be ready for nearly daily water changes, for around 30 days.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Damn, I thought so. Thanks though!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

A sressed cory will become pale when stressed.
nitrite is a little too high... keep up with those water changes 
if possible I would try to rehome the corys until the tank cycles, PH 6.8 actually lowers the toxicity of ammonia... watch for adverse reactions when the PH is raised...
keep up posted!


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks aokashi!
Well the water parameters are the same as yesterday with the low nitrite (1.0ppm) and the low pH (6.8ppm). 
I'm worried about the pH because i read that a tank with pH too low won't cycle, and that it's bad for the snails unless I add a calcium supplement. 
I will probably be doing 20 - 30% water changed daily or any day that I see the nitrites spike. 
Once again, Nitrates seem to be at zero or very low. 

Thanks for your help guys!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

morning 

nitrite is still somewhat high for fish, for snails you can add a pinch or two of montmorillon calcium clay (sold for koi and pond fish), that helps inverts with moulds and shell preservation wirh minimal impact on water parameters. Im not sure how low is low for PH.. but is ur seeing nitrites, the cycle seems to be on its way


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Oh yay!
That's good to hear. 
I hope the fish get through it okay.
I know I was told that the cory cats will be pale when stressed, but they're already white with a green shine on them, so I'm not sure what stress would look on them. 
Also, they're not eating still


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

fish usually start being stressed when nitrite levels are around 0.5... I think 1 is pretty toxic 
My corys have always been grey..with iridescence, the iridescence doesnt not change color, but the "skin tone" will~ this is the same with bettas... when they are stressed their natural coloring will change color but iridesence and scale pigment usually doesnt change.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

It looks like my water has stabilized at:

Ammonia: 0.02ppm 
Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 7.2ppm
Hardness: 150ppm
Alkalinity: 120ppm

It's been that reading for a couple of days.
I wasn't home yesterday, so I didn't get to do a water change.
I was going to change about 30% of the water today.

I still haven't seen the cory's eat though, and the snails have some clear stuff clinging to them...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

no changes in ammonia and nitrites? any nitrates yet?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

No nitrates yet.
I bought new filter cartridges because the one I replaced mine with was from a different filter, one-time use, and didn't look like it had a lot of charcoal in it. 
This is probably a dumb question, but do I change the filter once the cycle has been established, or at the 3 month mark?


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

You really don't change the filter. Every month, you can swish it in a bucket of tank water while making a water change. If you change it, you restart the cycle again. 

Filter medium should really be falling apart before you replace it, and you should only replace a portion at a time so you don't kill your cycle.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

^+1
most of the nitrifying bacteria resides in your filter media


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks for your posts guys!

Okay, mine is a one-time use only cartridge though. It already has brown stuff on it. 
I can't change the insides 

Also, I did a 40% water change, and my ammonia went up >_>

But my corycats have started eating! 

This more a cycle of bad news and good news than it is a nitrogen cycle...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

most cartridges are marketed as "one time use"  they last for a while usually you can cut the carbon out and stuff the inside with foam


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Oh okay!
Thanks aokashi! 
My ammonia is being stubborn and keeps rising after my water changes.
I'm not familiar with the actual nature of the cycle, so I guess I'll go reread some articles on it and try to understand it. 
In the meantime, thank you for all of your helpful advice, guys!
I really appreciate it!


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Did a water change yesterday, and my nitrates and nitrites spiked. My ammonia is high too, and my pH is low.

Plus it looks like my plants are dying


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

strange... what substrate did you say you have?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Sand.

So I came home and my nitrates were at 20ppm, nitrites at 10.0ppm, hardness at 100ppm, and acidic water with ammonia at .05ppm.

My fish and snails seemed to be fine, so I did a 50% water change and my test says the water quality is the same even after the change...
Plus my water wisteria plant died.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Hey guys, so something weird happened. 

My nitrites stayed at toxic level for a couple of weeks, no matter how many water changes I did. My ammonia stayed higher than it should be, my nitrates high, my alkalinity low and my pH all over the place (I did everything I could to keep it high for the snails. It never went below 6.2). 

I found out that one of the plants I got from PetSmart had pest snails on it. I found out the snails were the cause of my high ammonia, and that they had stalled my cycle and killed my wisteria plant. My amazon sword plant is also dying. 

I put down some lettuce and killed them all. After this, I did an 80% water change, and the nitrites and all other toxic elements of my water FINALLY went down to 0. The pH and alkalinity rose, as usual with my tap water. Two days later, no water change, and there is no sign of the nitrites and nitrates. Ammonia is still not at ZERO, but not high enough to do any damage. I assume once I get another plant, it will be better. My alkalinity and pH went down as well, to good levels. However, all the pest snails came back. I guess I didn't get them all.

Two questions:

Has my tank been cycled?

Will the return of the pest snails screw up my cycle, complete or incomplete?

Thanks!


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

I think that the high levels killed all your BB and you are starting the cycle over. I would check your premise on the snails causing the ammonia spike. It would take a very large number to do so. It is more likely that you are too lightly planted to absorb much bioload, and the dying plants contributed to the ammonia spike. 

It is very normal for plants to "melt" in new situations. They usually recover. It is only once they are growing that they help to uptake ammonia. While they are in a decaying mode, they are actually making the ammonia level worse.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks VJM! Here is some more relevant information:

My amazon was growing, it sprouted a new vine and everything. My wisteria was completely black at the roots and fell apart when I did a water change. 

There is a HUGE number of snails in my tank, and they produce a lot of waste in a short period of time. The waste produces ammonia. I did research this before I got them. There are probably thirty or so, not including the mystery snails. And those are just the ones that I CAN see...

There haven't really been any 'spikes' of ammonia. It's stayed constant, steadily rising until I do water changes. I realize that I do need another plant to replace the wisteria. 

If my BB has been killed, what should I do differently this time to make sure the cycle works okay? 

Is there any other way to be sure my cycle has restarted?


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

One more question:

Nitrate: Between 0 and 10ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: <0.02ppm
Hardness: 150ppm
Alkalinity: 40ppm
pH: 7.8ppm

Can I put my betta in my tank now?


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