# Coming Soon: My First Breeding Attempt!



## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

In the hunt to find a lass to go with my Thai imported halfmoon, who I was intending to breed first, I found this lass for a fiver (plus postage):










And I thought... Sweetheart, do I have the fish for you!










BAM. I know it will take a few gens to get the inevitable combiness out, but I will try and keep a female with as little combing as possible, and a male with lots and work the two lines (both HM and CT) out over a few gens.


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## KitDewStein (Jan 20, 2015)

Subscribing

Dang those two are epic looking!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

This is going to be a fun spawn.


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

And the boy was a petstore find! Even better he only cost £2.50 as he was sold as a 'she'.  Win for me!  He must be a breeders cull, he has fantastic form and his deportment is great. I would seriously consider showing him if he had been my breed (Pretty sure EU doesnt have a show class for purchased atm).


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

Out of interest, has anyone here done a Black Orchid x Black Orchid spawn? 

I know there is almost always marble used to help breed a Black orchid, but does it breed true at all? Will I get mostly marbles, or will there be more black-orchid or black/blue fish? 

I am secretly hoping some red is in these guys backgrounds... maybe get a handful of devils. Not too many though


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I have not...although I got red out of my black x red and my black x yellow spawn. I've been told black is tied to red somehow. Maybe Indjo will know.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Black orchid (original) doesn't carry marble. But Super Black does and often produces orchids.

Original BO x original BO = BO, black-blue, some with more irids on them and even blue-black (very dark blue) - depending on background, you may also produce irid colors.

BO from melano or SB = not really sure with melano. Never actually done melano.
From SB will produce blue black and orchids. Some orchids show more irid than others. If lucky, literally one or two will be almost totally black. Any of them may carry marble genes, some showing it early (after 2 months) while others later (after 5 months). Also depending on background, you may produce some irid colors.

Not sure about black associated with red. All I know is that red is sometimes "lost" in the black and can only be spotted if you look very closely. These will produce a few red washes . . . . I tried to breed red out so I never produced red fins, only washes.
...................

Just a thought:
Since you are crossing CT to non CT, why not cross to a HM/OHM/DTHM (long or short fin). This should improve fin spread on CT.


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

So most likely I will get a lot of orchids and variations on the blue black? Which would suit me fine. I have a thing for orchids. Hopefully one of both carries superblack. >=]


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

Subbing. Can't wait to see what these two produce!


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

Nor can I. She is settling well, so I'll see if she takes food today. If she will, I will start conditioning tomorrow.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Oh, those are beautiful! I'm subbing so I can see how the babies turn out.


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

indjo said:


> Just a thought:
> Since you are crossing CT to non CT, why not cross to a HM/OHM/DTHM (long or short fin). This should improve fin spread on CT.


Just caught this, sorry Indjo! 

The PK is very close to HM and I am hoping to source a female HM later on, as and when a suitable girl presents, and is by far the best suited of my boys for her. I did pick up another new juvenille yesterday. Certainly male, and from the faint colours I can see (He was majorly stressed in the fist store, will check on him later, he's still in the dark) he looks like a black orchid. Best thing is he is a DT geno, with a superb body proportion (atm, at least).

Will wait on the fry to colour up a little before I buy a female to introduce to this line, once I know what I am getting from it.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

No problem 
Perhaps due to less ray branching, CT often do not spread 180*. If this is one of your goals, watch for bigger webbing (between rays). They should spread wider.

Good Luck and keep us posted.


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

I have a number oif goals and will work towards all of them that prove viable. Will look at the fry once jarred and see where is realisitic. None are colour based, as I am not surewhat I am getting. I am hoping I will at least have the option of orchids. If I am lucky, marble or superblacks. lets see what genetic potluck has for me ^-^

Looking at possibilities of:

- A HMPK Line; if I can get some with nice spreads, if not I will wait to source HM geno/phenos to work in.
- A CT line; I know this will be generations through combtails, but there is a breeder a few hours from me spawning his two Black Orchids this week, aiming at halfsuns, so I may be able to sell some combs to him. 
- A HM line; I am guessing the female is CT (longfin) not CTPK, as that anal is pretty slanted. But we'll see. 
- A DT longfin/PK line: a new addition, I *think* I found a black orchid PK male in with the [email protected] girls. Whatever colour he is he has a lovely long body and such a dorsal I am certain he is carrying DT. He's been with me two days, but I am still waiting for him to fully colour up. He is dark with blue irids, for sure.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I love comb and crown tails!


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

Shame Tenessee is probably a way off for me, exportation-wise. I'm nearly cleared as a UK transhipper, have 15days and my Import License should arrive and then I can confirm my limitations with the council. Export this end is easy, just one form and arranging cargo space, its the receiving end that is the tricky one. I have to contact the US Embassy to ask.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

BettaMummy87 said:


> I have a number oif goals and will work towards all of them that prove viable. Will look at the fry once jarred and see where is realisitic. None are colour based, as I am not surewhat I am getting. I am hoping I will at least have the option of orchids. If I am lucky, marble or superblacks. lets see what genetic potluck has for me ^-^
> 
> Looking at possibilities of:
> 
> ...


WOW!!!! That's a lot of goals.
You're looking at 4 - 8 spawns at a time - possibly 2400 fry. . . . I make two sets/spawn (at least) of each goal I make

For CT - instead of working with combs, I'd suggest getting a pet store CT and crossing it to a HM. Working with combs may never give you CT for years - unless they were bred in-out to CT.

CT genes are naturally carried by most bettas. This is seen mainly on dorsal and anal fins. Some are shown even on caudals (tiny pin like protrusions). The first CT were create by isolating this trait which took many many years. 

Orchids are fairly easy. If lucky you can even get them from wild type color breeding. But SB is another story. Even starting with SB may not be successful if you don't have a big enough spawn (not 100% will be SB). All SB I've worked with carry marble.


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## BettaBoy51 (Nov 13, 2013)

indjo said:


> WOW!!!! That's a lot of goals.
> You're looking at 4 - 8 spawns at a time - possibly 2400 fry. . . . I make two sets/spawn (at least) of each goal I make
> 
> For CT - instead of working with combs, I'd suggest getting a pet store CT and crossing it to a HM. Working with combs may never give you CT for years - unless they were bred in-out to CT.
> ...


so my SB Pair carryies marble? and do you know of any tips to get a aggressive female to breed with a calmer male? sorry for asking on your thread


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## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

indjo said:


> WOW!!!! That's a lot of goals.
> You're looking at 4 - 8 spawns at a time - possibly 2400 fry. . . . I make two sets/spawn (at least) of each goal I make
> 
> For CT - instead of working with combs, I'd suggest getting a pet store CT and crossing it to a HM. Working with combs may never give you CT for years - unless they were bred in-out to CT.
> ...



Its a lot of options.  I won't be working all at once, or possibly ever. They are the possible routes I have planned, depending on the outcome of the spawn. 

If I get no breedable combtails, for example, I will ditch the thought of going down the CT route, until I can source a nice CT male (to work with the colours I see in the fry, as the fry are going to be a major indicator of the genetics of the fish) and will isntead work on whatever option seems best from the fry. I am guessing my most likely will be HM and or/HMPK lines. Ct female should be longfinned, so I am expecting some Det/SDeT tails, as I am crossing to a very near to HM Pk.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

right now, I am looking to import a black betta, so if you succeed, and if you'd be willing to ship one, I'd be happy to buy one from you. That's a very nice pair you have there. Truly.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

BettaMummy87, it'll be a few years before we get new fish -- whenever our current die of old age. At that time, I want to get high quality fish for breeding. Maybe by then, you'll have some of your end goals! I still can't wait to see what the first spawn looks like. That female is super gorgeous -- I love those dots on her fins.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

BettaMummy: that sounds reasonable

Bettaboy: Aggressive females are usually easier to breed. As long as both show flirting signs, they should be okay. . . . BTW, the male must be active. Sluggish males (usually older males) might get bitten if he doesn't react to the female. But basically these are usually over active females.

Vicious females will attack the male regardless how active he is. There is nothing you can do other than breeding in a rather small tank to an aggressive or even a slightly vicious male.


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