# 5 gallon npt buddies



## Juicebox (Oct 24, 2012)

i set up a 5 gallon npt last night. so far the only living thing in the tank is 4 malaysian trumpet snails and maybe 12 baby pond snails..

im thinking about putting my vt male into this tank in a week or 2 and im wondering what tank mates would be good for him.

i did have 2 adfs in the tank before,but one suddenly died and the other went missing.. so i cleaned it all out and did a npt.

the tank is heavily planted,id say at least 70 percent with loads of floaters too,ive got marimo moss ball,duckweed.anubias,.java moss,hornworth,swords and 2 or 3 other plants i have yet to identify.got some driftwood,a large rock,so plenty of hiding spaces and breaks in the line of sight..going to get more plants next week too


i have some ghost shrimp and a mystery snail in another tank so i dont really want anymore of them. i think i would like some fish in my 5 gallon,any ideas what fish i could stock in there?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

In a 5 gallon, besides dividing the tank for a second betta, there really are no betta compatible actual fish tankmates that will fit I'm afraid. Its not so much a bioload thing as it is a space issue....there just isn't enough room for a proper school of anything to, well, school....and anything else would either grow too large and/or isn't betta compatible. A 5 gallon really isn't all that much room when it comes to other fish species. 

Your options really are just shrimp, snails, and ADFs I'm afraid. Have you looked into different kinds of shrimp? Like Red Cherry? They're a little more colorful and interesting then Ghosts, though a tad more expensive so you'll probably want to make sure your betta isn't a shrimp eater...


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## Juicebox (Oct 24, 2012)

he was in with ghost shrimp for 2 weeks and never ate any so shrimp are ok,i am gonna get some red cherry for my bigger tank with the ghosts,i might try one or 2 in the 5 gallon, is there no 1 single other fish i can keep in there,like 1 catfish or 1 of any fish,or 3 or 4 small tetra size fish


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Most catfish species get very large, and those that don't, like Corys, require groups of 6+ and because of that 10+ gallons for most species. I'm unfamiliar with the Dwarf strains, but they still need a nicely sized shoal as well and honestly I think the footprint of any 5 gallon is just too small to support a proper schooling/shoaling species. 
Its the same with tetras. They need schools of 5-6+ and room to school....there just isn't enough space in a 5 gallon to support that. 

Its also much more likely that in the 5 gallon your betta will become more aggressive to fish tank mates 'invading' his territory and/or become stressed with them taking up his swimming space. When you start thinking about other fish, 5 gallons is just so small. 
So over all its just not a good idea IMO. 

If the RCS work out, a few of those would probably be your best option. I know there are a few other kinds of shrimp in different colors as well, could possibly look into adding a couple of those as well.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is an "ADF"??? And an "NPT"???

I had 6 tiny pond snails in my 5 gal w/ 2 lady Bettas; somehow, I can't find the pond snails- are they fish food?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ADF=African Dwarf Frog
NPT=Natural Planted Tank 

Well, pond snails are small. You could just not be spotting them, though bettas do eat snails sometimes, especially small ones. Though if you're not finding empty shells, its likely they're just hiding.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

If they're hiding, I'll bet I have a million pond snails in a few months!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Haha, most likely.


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## Juicebox (Oct 24, 2012)

Xaltd1 said:


> I had 6 tiny pond snails in my 5 gal w/ 2 lady Bettas; somehow, I can't find the pond snails- are they fish food?


is your tank seperated into 2 halves or are your females just free in the tank to touch each other and fight and stuff


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I've had quite a go-round with how I house my girls. They are not divided; they are both basically fry, and seem to be great buddies. They bump into each other while eating, and one prefers the upper 1/3 of the tank, while the other likes the plants and zipping through the cave I built. On the advice of people on this forum, I bought a 20-gallon tank. It will tank me a week to set it up and cycle it. I'll add a catfish, the and the girls' pet snail. Apart from that, what fish make good companions for the girls? I love fancy guppies, but those fins might look like a snack to a betta.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Xaltd1 said:


> I've had quite a go-round with how I house my girls. They are not divided; they are both basically fry, and seem to be great buddies. They bump into each other while eating, and one prefers the upper 1/3 of the tank, while the other likes the plants and zipping through the cave I built. On the advice of people on this forum, I bought a 20-gallon tank. It will tank me a week to set it up and cycle it. I'll add a catfish, the and the girls' pet snail. Apart from that, what fish make good companions for the girls? I love fancy guppies, but those fins might look like a snack to a betta.


To prevent the hijacking of this thread, I've sent you a PM.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Fancy Guppies A need a ten gallon. B are too colorful but will work with some Bettas.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

What's a PM? Chocolate, I said 20 gal, not 10 gal.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Oh, PM= Private Message. I can't figure out how to reply to it. When you hit "reply", it just gives the original massage, no space for more text.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

When you hit the reply button, the textbox will have the previous message(s) in it already as a quote. You can simply select all of the message and delete it, or just push the message down by pressing the enter key a few times and then write your response.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Or is this the private thread?
Either way, I feel like I'm always wrong on this board no matter what I suggest. I realize cats school and everything else grows to big, so I should upgrade to a 55 gallon... this hobby is just getting too riduculous! All I want is a few fish, but I keep getting shot down. I can't imagine it will take more than a week to get a tank up to speed! I was going to toss a couple of cheap fish in ther b/f my female bettas. The algae eaters I like all grow too big (except the bristlenose pleco, which I can't find for sale). I addressed this fact with the LFS manager. They will be happy to take a grown too-big fish back. I've seen lots of cats alone in community tanks, and I had a chinese algae eater (as a child) who we had for 7 years and he never got more than 4" in our 20-gal.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

In your private messages, is what I mean. When you go to reply, you should be able to delete whats already in the text box or make some room at the top/bottom by pressing the enter key a couple times. 

Like a lot of hobbies, if you really want to get into it and do it right fish keeping takes a lot of effort, research, and money.....its really not as simple as putting a few fish in a tank and that being it. It is a lot of work. And especially since we're talking about the health and well-being of living creatures here, its even more important to try your best to learn and do things properly so you can have a successful setup with healthy, happy fish. 
I'm very sorry that you feel like you're always wrong, that is not at all my intention or the intention of anyone her on the forum. We say what we say and offer up our advice based on our own research and experiences because we want both your fish to be happy and healthy, and for you to have a good experience keeping them that way. 

To start off, cycling a tank is a lot more complicated then just setting it up and letting everything run and it can tank a good 4-8 weeks. Give these threads a read, they should explain things in much more/better detail then I could.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=66595
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771

Unless you really want to get into larger species of fish(most of which could likely eat your bettas, mind, if you had wanted to add them in as well that is), then I don't see why you would HAVE to upgrade to a 55. Its great if you want to and you have to means to of course, but if not then why not just choose species that will fit in what you have? A 20 gallon is still a nice size. Can't put anything massive in there, but it does give you some nice options IMO.

Honestly, I would suggest putting anything in that will potentially outgrow your tank, especially when it comes to plecos or 'algea eaters'. Trying to keep a big fish in a small tank while its growing is not a good plan.....it can stunt their growth and cause all kinds of health problems that will pop up later on. Its best to stick with species that can really fit in your tank long-term, IMO.
Also, most plecos and algea eaters don't really eat algae at all/for very long anyway....and they produce a TON of waste, which will further limit your stocking options. As they get older, many species, like the CAE, can start to get rather aggressive as well and have been known to attack and suck the slime coats off of their tankmates.

But on a more positive note, you do have room in your 20 gallon for some smaller species of catfish, like Corys(or ottos, but they can be a little sensitive and finicky). You could easily fit in a little shoal of 5-6 corys to scurry about the bottom, even if you wanted to add a few more girls and start a Sorority.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Xaltd1 said:


> What's a PM? Chocolate, I said 20 gal, not 10 gal.


 Sorry thought you were the OP. Guppies will work in a twenty gallon. I would stick with a female Betta. Males Bettas and Guppies are a big risk.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Since I don't know how to PM yet, I guess this thread is hijacked!
What I really want is suggestions about what fish I CAN have in a 20-gal. It seems like every idea I have is a bad one, so give me GOOD ideas! I've read a lot about fish that are high-bioloaders, so I don't want those (although people collect chiclids [sp?] and they seem to be pretty but lousy fish to own). I spotted a clown loach at LPS, but read that they're too aggressive. Sigh. I do plan on cycling the 20 gal w/ water from my 2 other betta tanks. Of course I'll consider a sorority! What got me into this whole mess is the "Betta Babies" that Petco is now offering. It appealed to me to rescue the cute, active ones. More often than not, the manager of the Topsfield, MA Petco can sex them at a glance. IMHO that store has it's act together like no other. It specializes in fish. The other 3 Petcos (all within 7 miles of me) focus on dog training, dog & cat products, but all have a small but good fish dept. The Topsfield store is closest to my house (unfortunate for my bank account, fortunate for my fish) but still, their advice conflicts with what I read online- it's discouraging.
What's also sad is the demise of the true "LPS". There was a great one a few miles further down the road from me. Just fish! Unfortunately, 7 Petcos, 2 Petsmarts, Boston Pet, all opening within the same 10-mile radius of greater Boston killed them faster than a male betta in a fry tank. The specialists have gone on-line. I ordered a $$ bristlenose pleco fry from one of them. It arrived dead as a doornail (the heat pack expired. It took moore than 72 hours to process the package- even though it was only coming from NY to MA!) As one that cares about living things, this is a risk I hate to try again. Of course the seller SHOULD and could have asked for 2-day service with delivery confirmation, but didn't!!!!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

For a twenty gallon 5 Otos after months of being cycled 5 cories and a Betta I would reccomend live plants and pothos in the filters.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Sorry about the Hijack Juicebox...xD;

Alright, so first of all you can't cycle your tank with water from another tank....what very tiny amount of BB living in the water itself is just too small to seed another tank. your best bet if you're looking to seed, if you have tanks with an established cycle, is to use filter media from those tanks.
If you're moving the girls out completely from the 5 and it has a cycled filter, you can just take out the media from that and stick it in your filter for the 20 and then surround it with filter sponge/foam(I'm not a huge fan of filter carriages, the carbon in them is unnecessary unless you're removing medication and the floss they're made out of breaks down way to easily and quickly.....sponge and foam is the way to go). This will give you a nice jump start on you're cycle, and you can start slowly adding fish right away. Just keep an eye on your levels of course.

Now, as for suggestions of what you CAN have in your 20 gallon....well, you have quite a few options.
Personally, if it were me, I would plant the tank into a miniature thick tropical jungle and go with a nice large Sorority of 8-10 girls with maybe a Nerite snail or a couple shrimps.

If you want a Sorority and other fish species, you could go with about 5-6 girls and have room for some nice small peaceful schooling species like Tetras or Rasboras or Corys and have a nice group of 5-6 as well.

If you wanted to separate the girls and have just one in the 20 gallon(or put your male in there and put the other girl in your 2.5), then you could probably go with either a larger school/shoal of the previously mentioned species(what i would recommend)or a group of about 5 corys and a group of about 5 tetras/rasboras along with your betta.

If you wanted to do something like dividing the 20 gallon for both girls rather then go with a Sorority, you could stock each side a bit more like separate 10 gallons(or smaller, depending on the footprint of your tank)with your betta and a smallish(5)school of something on each side, or some shrimps or snails.

Hmm...thats all the options that come to me right now. If I think of more i'll let you know.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You can with water from another tank it contains nutrients for the BB.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ChoclateBetta said:


> You can with water from another tank it contains nutrients for the BB.


Not really. Based on everything I've researched and read, its really not an efficient way to go about starting and establishing a cycle.....the transfer of water does basically nothing, the concentration of ammonia would just end up getting watered down I'd think. You may be able to do it eventually, but it would likely take months and months. 
To efficiently cycle a tank you need a concentrated ammonia source like pure ammonia or an actual fish or two, and to seed a tank you need to add in something like filer media which contains a lot of BB and continue feeding that BB with some kind of ammonia source.


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## Juicebox (Oct 24, 2012)

regarding my tank mates for my 5 gallon,i have taken out my mystery snail from my bigger tank and put him in the 5 gallon with my betta,i think ill leave it at that for now and maybe add 2 cheery shrimp sometime down the road


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Juicebox said:


> regarding my tank mates for my 5 gallon,i have taken out my mystery snail from my bigger tank and put him in the 5 gallon with my betta,i think ill leave it at that for now and maybe add 2 cheery shrimp sometime down the road


That sounds great.  Again, I'm really sorry for the Hijack...


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## Reefing Madness (Jun 26, 2011)

DragonFish said:


> Not really. Based on everything I've researched and read, its really not an efficient way to go about starting and establishing a cycle.....the transfer of water does basically nothing, the concentration of ammonia would just end up getting watered down I'd think. You may be able to do it eventually, but it would likely take months and months.
> To efficiently cycle a tank you need a concentrated ammonia source like pure ammonia or an actual fish or two, and to seed a tank you need to add in something like filer media which contains a lot of BB and continue feeding that BB with some kind of ammonia source.


You are corrrect. Water does not carry enough bacteria to cycle a tank, nor keep it from cycling. Mature filter media is the best natural way to do it. Once its been added to the tank, after a couple of days you can add fish, this will be your ammonia source.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I can't open the PM part!
I read all of your links- thank you! I imagine I will use the "kick start" method. I also will have lots of plants in the new aquarium.
In the "kick start" instructions, they don't mention using the weekly water from the tank changes? Wouldn't that be the easiest way? I will transfer rocks & plants, too. Also, why does the filter from the old tank be put into the filter of the new tank (the new one has a larger filter), why not just toss the used filters in the tank for a day?
I visited my favorite fish store and I looked at fish- the corys in a large shoal are a riot! They zoom around the tanks like fish nascar. I want at at least 5! They've also convinced me to go with a dark substrate to show off their antics.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

If you've already got some media from an established tank, then thats generally the best way to go about starting your cycle in a new tank. It'll cut down on the cycling time some for sure, however its not an instant or perfect fix, especially when you're going from a much smaller tank to a larger one, so you will need to still watch your levels closely and be ready to preform water changes accordingly for the first few weeks/couple of months until things stay stable for at least a week or so. Then you can start going down to regular weekly changes. 

Like I mentioned above, using old tank water doesn't do anything. There isn't enough BB in there to properly seed a new tank, and whatever ammonia is in that water will just be watered down. You need some kind of concentrated source of ammonia. 

Transferring substrate/decor/live plants and all that will certainly help a little, but the majority of your BB colonize in your filter media so adding in that is what is going to get you the best, most efficient, and quickest results when we're talking about seeding. And its going to take a lot longer then a day for the BB to grow and colonize on the new and larger surface of your new filter/tank, so you'll probably want to keep it in there until your tanks cycle has stabilized for at least a couple of weeks.

Now, what I would do is instead of using the filter cartridge with the carbon in it(which is actually useless unless you're removing medication from your tank, and I've read can actually remove some beneficial minerals from your water during the short period its actually active) in your new filer is pick up some filter foam/sponge. Take a piece(or two, depending on how large they are) and wrap it around the filter media that you will be using to seed, then put it in your filter. If there is any extra space, stuff it with more sponge/foam. This will give you some more surface area for your BBs to cling to and colonize, and unlike the cartridges where the floss breaks down eventually and you have to replace them(which essentially just throws away most of your BB anyway and could easily crash your cycle)you shouldn't ever need to replace the sponge/foam(or at least it would be a VERY long time before you might need to), which saves your cycle AND saves you some cash in the long run. Just take it out every water change/every other regular water change(AFTER your cycle has been established), swish it around in some old tank water, then stick it back in the filter. 

Haha, Corys are definitely little characters, especially when kept in their little shoals! So cute. I would suggest a sand/very fine gravel substrate for them as they like to dig and root around and sand is a little softer on their barbs.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

How about Triops water for concentrated ammonia? (I have test strips- I'll check the level of ammonia) I had a spare 2.5 gal. I heard about Triops, and thought I'd give 'em a try. What a riot! I had to pull up a chair to the tank to take the whole thing in (better than TV!). Their egg seller said that they are "filthy little critters"- filthy w/BB?
Funny, the Petco person who was in the local shop today said that gravel was better than sand for cats. I used sand for the Triops, but gravel with everything else. If you use sand, how do you clean it without it sucking up into the vaccum?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

I wouldn't. You'll run into the same exact problem with any water from any tank, water is just not an efficient way to go about it. Its not a concentrated source of ammonia, for that you need some kind of critter like fish or snails or some PURE ammonia. 
Beneficial Bacteria is different then ammonia. Ammonia is the harmful chemical your fish produces through waste and constantly through their gills. What BBs do is grow and colonize in a high oxygen environment, like your filter, and break down the Ammonia first into Nitrites, and then into a less harmful form of Nitrates, which you keep from getting up into dangerous levels through regular water changes. 
Unless your Triops tank is filtered and cycled, there is no BB, and even if there is, like I said, there isn't enough in the water to help the cycle of your tank.

Always take the advice from pet stores and their employees with a grain of salt. They are rarely properly educated and most of the time have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Sand is definitely better for Corys then gravel as gravel will wear on their barbs.
Sand isn't at all tricky to clean once you get the hang of it. I use Petcos brand of sand(which is really just very VERY fine gravel, which I like because its a little easier to rinse out initially and doesn't float and cloud as much as a finer sand might)in all of my tanks, and while i do usually end up sucking a little sand up now and again, all I do is skim the top of the substrate with a my vacuum and get up all the chunks, then poke at it a little and stir it about to release any possible trapped gasses, and thats about it. I personally adore the stuff, even though I don't currently have any corys. I've found it so much easier to deal with in comparison to gravel.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank you! I took a liking to the black sand. It would really show off the fish better.
I have to make one HUGE confession here: I got into fish b/c of my cat. I am owned by a blue bi-color Ragdoll who is smarter than I am. He gets bored easily but he adores the fish tank at the (unbelievably expensive) boarding faciliity he goes to. I have to pay extra for fish-watching time; $4 per hour. If I hold him up to the bettas, he enjoys them briefly. My goal is to have some flashy fish in a tank that's at a level for him to enjoy watching. Growing up, we had 4 cats and a nice 20-gallon guppy tank that they all enjoyed. One day, my mom left the top of the tank open; one of our new sword-tails shot out of the tank right into the mouth of my "personal cat", Mimi. I don't need to tell you that Mimi was an avid fish-watcher for the rest of her days!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, so long as you enjoy it too, I don't see why that could be a bad thing! xD All us keepers end up in the hobby somehow! I've heard of lots of people whos cats really enjoy their fish tanks and seen several pictures, it always looks so adorable!

Oh! One more thing I forgot to mention in my last post....the test strips are notorious for being inaccurate. I would highly suggest investing in a liquid test kit, the API brand is a good one and you can find it just about anywhere. It may be a for more bucks up front, but with 800 tests and a much better chance of accuracy its an extremely useful and necessary investment for any keeper IMO.

Anyway, I hope I've answered most of the questions you might have for the moment, and I'm glad that I could help. If anything else comes to mind, please feel free to Post a thread, send me a PM(if you manage to get it working), or post a comment on my page.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I am a vegetarian and love all animals. I adore fish; the fact that they beg for food and seem to show emotions! If I can make Jax (my cat), me, and fish happy, it's a win-win all around! I just wish I could get Jax to do water changes. I'd bet he'd drink the fish water, though! Back in the early 70s, the hoods were metal and had to be pulled back entirely to feed the fish and otherwise maintain the filter, etc.- allowing naughty tabby cats great opportunities if the fish-tank supervisor slipped up. Thank the fish god that designs have changed. Look; don't eat or go fishing, kitties!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I love black sand.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

What are your thoughts on UV sterilizers? The ads make them sound like magic, but UV rays are nothing to trifle with. Wouldn't they destroy the BB, too?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Depends if you want live plants.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

I haven't encountered much about UV sterilizers, but I'm doing a little reading up on them and it looks like the ones made specifically for aquariums are supposed to not kill off the BB.....but they can get really expensive, and it looks like its not really necessary however unless you're really getting into the breeding or care of some more expensive delicate species of fish or you're keeping Saltwater. I'm sure no one here on this forum has or uses one(or if they do its never been mentioned that I've seen).
I'm not seeing anything that has to do with live plants in relation to them.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with one.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I prefer the filter plant method.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm sure the pet stores use them; the tanks are always perfect w/ no live plants.

UV's kill plants but not fish?
Chocolate, is there a plant filter 'method' or do you just mean live plants? I put as many live plants as possible. I only have 2 purple plastic plants as accents in my purple-themed 5 gal. Purple gravel, purple rock, purple fish!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

For a normal setup with most species of fish you can have a nice, perfect, clean tank just by keeping up with the needed maintenance. A UV sterilizer is not needed to make a tank look perfect, that all depends on the care and diligence yo provide to your setup, even with one.
I used to work at a local pet store with a very stunning, large, and very well maintained fish section. We had 200+ tanks, all separate setups, ranging from 20-200 gallons or so and we didn't use any kind of UV sterilizer product. We just had a water changing schedule, watched tank levels, and kept an eye on algae growth.

Live plants do do some 'filtering' of their own as they will absorb the ammonia your fish produces and turn it into nutrients, so healthy live plants really do a nice job at assisting in the overall health and maintenance of a setup. I do believe that is what CB was referring to.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Semi Aquatic plants in filters really help they also may clean the air depending on the species. My favorite is Pothos.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Xaltd1 said:


> I'm sure the pet stores use them; the tanks are always perfect w/ no live plants.
> 
> UV's kill plants but not fish?
> Chocolate, is there a plant filter 'method' or do you just mean live plants? I put as many live plants as possible. I only have 2 purple plastic plants as accents in my purple-themed 5 gal. Purple gravel, purple rock, purple fish!


 UVs destroy plant nutrients. I mean like on my thread where I mention growing semi aquatic plants in filters. They can remove more nutrients because there not limited my CO2.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

OK, things are getting out of control.
I saw a 29 gallon on sale at one of the other Petcos in my area. It was on sale for $89!!!!!!! I traded my 20- gal setup (which was on sale for $65) for the larger tank- it is a kit, adjustable heater and everything. (I won't have space or time to do much about setting up a tank until after Xmas). Then I read a link about "The Walstad Method". Is there a thread about this? I may start one. My local garden center (NOT a big box) actually sells aquatic soil. You're supposed put it in a pot, plant the aquatic plant in the pot, then sink it in your pond. Am I onto something?


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

CB, I'm going to check out your link on the plants.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Ahh, upgrades! Fun stuff!! ;D

That method, as far as I understand, is basically what I and most on the form would refer to as an NPT: Naturally Planted Tank. There is a TON of info about it in the Planted Tanks section of the forum here, as well as a fantastic sticky about how to set one up.
http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=147
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575

You don't need specific Soil made for aquariums by the way. Just all organic potting soil with no additives.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Xaltd1 said:


> CB, I'm going to check out your link on the plants.


 Okay.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks for the links. My gripe w/ potting soil (even organic) is that they all use @#$%* PERLITE. Perlite floats, and I hate that it rises to the top of my houseplants where it looks like a disease or something. I can just imagine it floating in a tank and causing filter problems. This Epsoma aquatic stuff has no peat or perlite and is organic. It's probably mostly crushed Rhyolite. Thanks for all your help!


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Well so long as its all organic without additives, just about any sort of potting soil should be fine. Because I don't see it in most pictures, I do believe most choose ones without Perlite in it, however you're supposed to cap the soil with sand or fine gravel anyway, so that should prevent anything from floating up.

Sure thing.  Good luck with your new setup!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You cab buy semi-aquatic plants without soil or take a cutting of a plant.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

CB, did you say that you put plant leaves into your filter compartment instead of a filter (sponge or charcoal), or do you put a leaf or 2 in with the filter?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I put all the stuff in then add the plants. I have fitted like 10 plants in.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Can you take a pic of it so I can see what you mean?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)




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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

You wouldn't be able to put plants in your filter without some kind of media in there, there would be no place for enough bacteria to colonize to establish your cycle/keep it going and stable. However, what CB means(and has, I do believe)is that you can put a small semi-aquatic plant, like bamboo, in your typical HOB filter. I'm not sure if this truly does all that much more for water quality, there are certainly some better fully aquatic plants that help more with that, but aesthetically it has a neat look, and its a way to incorporate bamboo into your setup if you like its look as it can't be fully submersed.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I ounce had Java fern in my ten gallon filter so you can have all the equitment in and an aquatic plant or semi aquatic. My 20 gallon filter has a sponge and filter media and that extra stage thing in.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> You wouldn't be able to put plants in your filter without some kind of media in there, there would be no place for enough bacteria to colonize to establish your cycle/keep it going and stable. However, what CB means(and has, I do believe)is that you can put a small semi-aquatic plant, like bamboo, in your typical HOB filter. I'm not sure if this truly does all that much more for water quality, there are certainly some better fully aquatic plants that help more with that, but aesthetically it has a neat look, and its a way to incorporate bamboo into your setup if you like its look as it can't be fully submersed.


 A. Lucky Bamboo is a Dracnea. B. Semi Aquatic plants do wonders on water quality. There is more CO2 in the Atomspere so there not limited by that.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ChoclateBetta said:


> A. Lucky Bamboo is a Dracnea. B. Semi Aquatic plants do wonders on water quality. There is more CO2 in the Atomspere so there not limited by that.


I wasn't referring to Lucky bamboo specifically. If you noticed, I just said bamboo. 
And I never said they didn't do ANYTHING for water quality, just not any more then regular aquatic plants would. I'm sure semi aquatic plants to wonderfully in filters and aquariums with all that nutrients, and of course like any plant they do do something to help with the quality of the water.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I plan on putting potted plants around my tank, too! I have one of my 3 Aerogardens behind it now. I figure the extra light will help the plants, and it will make a nice backdrop, esp. If I grow coleus or a flowering plant.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

P. S.- What an HOB filter?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> I wasn't referring to Lucky bamboo specifically. If you noticed, I just said bamboo.
> And I never said they didn't do ANYTHING for water quality, just not any more then regular aquatic plants would. I'm sure semi aquatic plants to wonderfully in filters and aquariums with all that nutrients, and of course like any plant they do do something to help with the quality of the water.


 I cant even find a real Bamboo that can live in filters.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

HOB=Hang on Back. Just an abbreviation for the type of filter that hangs on the back of your tank.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

OK Dawn Breaks on Marblehead. Sure- stick dracena in there!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What?


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

My expression? Is it regional? Dawn breaks on Marble Head, means I suddenly understand. (There's a town nearby called Marblehead, I guess that's where it comes from) and the stalks sold as bamboo are dracenas, semi-aquatic. Can you buy real bamboo? It's a grass, but I guess it could be trimmed.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Might be a regional thing....I've never heard the expression myself, but I understood what you meant. xD

Real, true bamboo is next to impossible to find as far as I know. You need to REALLY know what to look for if you want to set out on that quest. Lucky Bamboo, provided the leaves are kept above the waterline, is perfectly fine to use in your aquarium though. Plenty of people do without any problems.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Real Bamboo is invasive in Virginia.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I wonder what is the lowest temperature it can handle? I think people grow it as a decorative annual up here. My dad moved to FLA and used it as a privacy screen around his house there. He had a devil of a time getting it to stay in one place. I think it's why they invented machetes!
I am so psyched about my new tank!!! I wish all this Xmas stuff would be over so I can work on it. I hear those dried-up bulbs you see in stores will grow in soil-based tanks? I've tried growing them in just a decorative bowl w/the "lucky bamboo" dracena, but they always just rot.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Those bulbs are kinda a hit or miss....sometimes they rot, sometimes they grow. If you want to give them a shot again, stick them in a separate container and set them by a window where they can get some good sunlight, then plant the ones that sprout and toss the ones that don't after a while.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

I put them in decorative glass containers in my window, covered by pretty gravel, surrounded by other plants and a terrarium. I thought it would be nice to have a little water garden, but the bulbs never grew :0(


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah, they don't always sprout and grow. Sometimes you'll get a good one or two though.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Onion plants are the best as bulbs.


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## Xaltd1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Sounds like fish soup!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Scary.


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