# Spawn log...take II? {minor pic spam :P }



## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

SO. Trying again, different pair. Well, different male.

Meet Callisto, the DTHM:










Meet Alma the suuupppeeerrrr eggy VT female:










Breeder tank setup:










No worries, I have been conditioning them with high protein diets, I just didn't think to post a log of these two, I'd been sooo focused Jazz and her. Just introduced them today. My tumblr http://www.ncpanthersgurl.tumblr.com has a bit more detailed account of everything going on, a few more pictures, and I'm uploading a video right now. {And if you read my other log "start" I'm very prepared for the spawn.  }

Anyway, I hope these two do better than she and Jazzy did. He was just bored with her after like 5 minutes. >.<


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

So they've been together maybe an hour, and I was wondering where Callisto went; he just hadn't been flaring around the jar for about 15 minutes. Went and peeked over the half wall between the kitchen and living room...and found this!










I squealed like a little girl >.< I'm so excited.

EDIT:
It just keeps getting bigger!


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## JHernandez (Jul 2, 2011)

NICE, he is ready plz more pics when possible


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Can do, I love taking pics.  Though getting them of the babies will be hard since, as you can see, he put his nest in the back corner of the tank. Anyway here's the nest progress.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Uploading two videos to the above tumblr account right now. First is them chasing, second is just a general. They're doing really well together, I'm so much more thrilled with the way this pairing is going. His bubble nest is smallish, but my god is it thick. She's hiding from him like I was told she would; but has clear vertical bars and no stress striping whatsoever, so I'm just being the supervisor for now. Nothing seems too aggressive, not yet. I think her tail took a hit...as hard as it is to watch them be vicious I know it's just part of the cycle. >.< I'm just making sure it doesn't get out of hand. If I see her taking too much damage I'm fully prepared to take her out if needed.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Nice nest!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

It's bigger now! And about half an inch thick. ^.^

Vids are gonna be a few >.<


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

The thickness of the bubblenest; thank god all my bettas don't even flinch when I come near anymore. I need to be able to snatch nifty pics....


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

WOOT! I have eggs! Super happyface. I'm not sure how many, there only looks like a few, but since they're both new to it I'm not surprised. Pics later.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Congratulations!  I really like your male
Now the fun part begins


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

that male is gorgeous. i want him!!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Heh, thanks. I found him at Petco; eyeballed him every time I went for three weeks. 

I'm sad though, I missed the actual embrace. It happened while I was at work, my boyfriend got to watch though.  Oh well. There's probably 50-75 eggs in there, not too bad for a first spawn. I'm hoping I can get as many of the babies to maturity as possible! 

Oh, and pics. Need those. Daddy and eggies. :greenyay: 

{the one closeup of the bubble nest was my attempts at seeing the eggs better. Didn't work too bad. }


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I thought i had 50 eggs also, but my oldman was piling them in clumps over more bubbles hiding them away so you may have a bit more! Congrats though, excited to read along your log


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

He's built an absolutely beautiful bubble nest! I bet you have a great hatch rate...prepare for baby betta overload! :-D


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

hurayyy for the possibility of there being more eggs!!!!


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

Yea! I'm hoping to spawn my pair this weekend :blueyay:. I'm just waiting for my fry food to come in the mail. Keep us updated!


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

How are they today? Any wigglers?


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

None that I can see; but that doesn't mean much since where they are right now I don't have a lot of light-unfortunately the light in that half of the room blew all 4 bulbs in less than a week -_- We're going to get new bulbs soon, so I'll have to check after that  Callisto's been staying with the nest pretty adamantly though, seems to be a good daddy thus far. When I got home last night he wouldn't even leave the nest to eat, though he'd poke his head out if I dropped BS near him. >.<


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

My first few hatched out exactly 35 hours from the time they were put into the nest. My temp was at 82 the whole time. Youll probably have some this evening! Weee! Hes being a good dad and patiently waiting for the fun to start


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I wish the best of luck to you and the little ones!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Mine's right about 80. I hope I see some tonight  It's been just over 24 hours, so not too bad. I need to get light over there >.< Thankfully I'm going for the bulbs now.

Also, my backup culture arrived; I ordered a microworm culture to have on hand in case I can't get the babies to eat frozen foods. Or egg yolk. You feed as soon as they're free swimming right? I'm also waiting to mess with the water til then. Cause I don't want to hurt the nest. But as soon as they're free swimming I plan to drip in about 6/8 inches more.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

And thanks all


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## BlueEyes (Jul 19, 2011)

Can't wait to see the babies!


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I used infusoria/egg yolk the first week, i dont have any experience with microworms but ive read they should work at freeswimming, just drop some in and see if the fry can handle them


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Cool. I've never used any of it before >.< lol. But I have this microworm culture, as well as frozen BBS, frozen BS, frozen daphnia, as well as flakes, freeze dried blood worms, freeze dried shrimp...and naturally egg yolk. I think there's something for all of them >.<

Also, no wigglers just yet.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

At first only a few would go for anything not living, most wanted wiggling foods so its great ya got the microworms to start them out on. Yolk gave me no problems but only half would try it out, usually after they see one eating something they all give it a try lol


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

lol. I'm wondering where the eggs went; yesterday they were clear, today not so much. Am I missing them? Or is it normal to not always be able to see them? :/ Yesterday they were very clearly there, today not so much.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Watch him for awhile, oldman piled fresh bubbles onto the eggs so i couldnt find most of them for a bit, try looking from above. Then oldman suddenly moved all the eggs to a whole new area just before they hatched, under a leaf. I couldnt see them at all but i watched him go there alot and realized. Dont give up yet 
Your guy likes thick bubblenests so maybe they are hidden between the layers xD
I also watched oldmans stomach, hed eat a few bad eggs but nothing to look bloated or anything, if he ate them all hed look full.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Well he's been under there since yesterday so I'm hoping he's just moving them around. I'm assuming if he's been under there that long he's not eating them. My assumption being that if he did he'd be acting normal again and not caring about the nest at all. SO. And I've tried getting my camera into every angle, looking behind, above, the side..I can't see them! But if he's moving them, that would make sense. He was working on something on a side of the nest the eggs weren't even near earlier, so maybe he's moving them. I didn't think they did that without moving the nest. I'm such a newb  

You do so much reading and yet you can't totally be prepared for the first time. Just like real children


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

lol too true! The first time oldman and electra spawned on a whim he ate all the eggs and acted normal immediately with a fat belly and no nest tending, i think they were infertile. When he moved his eggs he got them far away from where they started, a few had fungused up so he moved the rest so they wouldnt share the same fate. If hes working on his nest and looking up alot they are there i think


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I hope so. He does a couple laps around the tank every half hour or so but the rest of the time he's under the nest. He eats like a horse, I'm still feeding him frozen brine shrimp. I'm feeding a bit heavier than usual to help curb his appetite, lol, I heard it helps when the fry are free swimming. So he's a bit less likely to eat them. >.< 

Maybe he's moving them. As you can see there's a bunch of new, much larger bubbles in there. And I def saw him doing something, be it blowing bubbles or moving eggs, earlier. So I'm still hopeful. I think it's the panic of a first spawn. >.<


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Ooookay. SO. Newest observation. {I was trying to be sneaky, but Callisto caught me...and then I noticed...} Callisto is pretty bloated. I haven't been feeding him enough to cause this much bloating, or any. I've grown more concerned he's eaten the eggs. Especially when I shined a light on the nest, and saw none. 

However. My boyfriend came over and looked and asked me about some little tan speckles all over the top of the nest. Asked me what they were. I said I wasn't sure, but I remembered somewhere reading that the eggs will, on day 2 or so, show up as tannish speckles. I attached a pic of the top of the nest. I don't want to hope that they're eggs and be wrong...but I also don't want to think daddy Callisto ate them all either. 

Thoughts?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I cant really tell fully, but ive read the same, is he hanging by that area? Maybe hes smart and layered them so they dont fall as easily


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Maybe. I haven't seen him pick any up, just looks like he's picking at the nest. Or putting bubbles in? He came out, got some air, went back under to "work" and did it all again. I'm going to try to not worry for now. >.<


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

when oldman makes a bubblenest bubble his lips do a funny "O" shape, maybe hes adding more bubbles, stay calm for now, chances are high that the dots are them and its fine. He will eat bad eggs though so with you feeding him/him eating bad eggs he may be alittle big.


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

Just try to relax...its very likely that there might be a few stored up in the layers like Punki said, I know jiro put a few on the top of his...either way you will know in about a day or two...Personally, I think that if he's still maintaining the nest then there are most likely still babies somewhere in there ;-)...hopefully *crosses fingers for you*


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I hope so. I'm peeking over the barrier every once in a while so I can watch without him seeing me, and if he's not doing what I mentioned he's sitting under there still, and like...watching? I dunno if that's normal or makes sense. But there's gotta be a couple or he wouldn't be under there. I'm pretty sure of it.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah im going to say they are there. He might be napping when he just sits. They should be hatching tonight so hes probably sleeping but keeping his eyes on them for movement. Fungus may have gotten to a few so he ate those and moved the rest up in layers to protect them. He wouldnt be watching so carefully if there was nothing. oldman did a random lap of the tank every 30 minutes or so also. I assumed he was making sure Electra was out and getting some exercise. Be sure to post when you get wigglers


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

Jiro's behavior was exactly as you described, sometimes he would just sit and stare at his nest for hours and every now and then he would move eggs and do maintenance on the nest, then like punki's guy he would do a random lap around the tank to stretch out his fin's and find food...So I would say the chances are pretty high that there is at least 1 egg in that nest, otherwise he would be back to his old self and letting the nest deteriorate a bit...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Im so excited for you NC, i know youve been so patient with jazz and that attempt then conditioning this new male. Im sure your little ones are gonna catch you offguard, youll look over and suddenly a little egg will fall then JOLT back to the top


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## BETTA DET (Jul 29, 2011)

C'mon bebes


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Yes yes, i hope theres wigglers now!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Still nothing visible. Sigh. But he's still pretty attentive SO I'm hoping. 

Worse case, I noticed Alma's getting eggy again..


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I'VE GOT BABIES! 

Just got home from work, peeped in, and sure enough there are little tails poking out of the nest now. XD If I wasn't sure, I was when one fell and Callisto put him or her back in the nest. They're like itty bitty pieces of hair peeking out, sooo hard to see but definitely there. I'll try to get pictures after I eat lunch {just got home from work >.<} but yeah, I've got babies!!! ^.^

Oh, and yes, it looks like he scattered them out more through the nest. >.<


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## BETTA DET (Jul 29, 2011)




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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I tried getting pics...yeah they're friggin tiny >.< BUT. I did get one. Off to the right side, there's a little white line hanging down from the nest? Yeah that's a baby. 

I also took one of daddy tending the babies.

And I've got a swimmer or two; I watched one fall and pretty immediately zoom back up to the bubble nest.


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

WHOO! YAY for little babies!!!! SNeaky Callisto hid them from you XD


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

He did! The little tails are all over the nest, and I mean, none are close to the others. Ridiculous. No wonder I was freaking out so bad last night >.<


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

yayyyyyy


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

See the dot in the pink box? Yeahhh that's a baby. He was an accidental shot though; I was trying to get the two tails that you see located a bit to his right...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

YAY!!!!!!!
WOOOOO!!!
YES!!!
i knew he was up to good things! Grats to you! Get yourself ready, the funs beginning


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Yes I knowwww! I'm so excited.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

ohhhhh keep us posted. What are you planning on doing with the little ones?


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I have a bunch of homes lined up, friends and family. If I don't have enough homes I'll keep them til I can either line up homes or sell them. I do want to breed more, so selling is a very serious thought for me. But again, I do have the space to house them if I need to.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Babies are appearing more and more now  They seem to be doing well, I'm just watching for the free swimmingness. 

In other news, got a new tattoo today sooo I'm gonna go relax for a bit >.<


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

The beginning is so exciting  Of course it all is but the thrill of spawn success, then the thrill of eggs, then hatching eggs, then freeswimmers! so much happens the first week


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## BETTA DET (Jul 29, 2011)

Tattoo Pics?


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## BlueEyes (Jul 19, 2011)

Yes, tattoo pics. 

And yay babies! Congrats!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Ah hahaha, really? Okay... >.< It's my second, and on my forearm. I love my artist.

I was so sore yesterday, I came home, updated this real quick, played a couple rounds of Nazi Zombies, and went to bed! >.<

Haven't checked the babies this morning, though last night right before I went to bed I had one zooming around the nest, bouncing from spot to spot. It was sooo cute! :3


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Hmm. I can't find any babies. I see one fry that I lost on the bottom, but since I know there was more than one I wonder where they are? Callisto is still tending so I'm not sure where they went. To be safe, since I've had so many jumping in the nest lately, I figured by now there has to be some free swimmers. So I popped in some microworms that are swimming around free in there now, just to make sure they're getting food if they are ready for it. 

I'd really like to know where they went 0.o I've been able to see at least one every day. But not today.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Found them! Looks like they relocated themselves or daddy relocated them. Either way I saw one hopping around the nest area and a couple black spots behind him. *phew* I knew my first spawn would be stressful!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I found ma babies! 

There's a couple in the nest still...but I've got freeswimmers I didn't see in the plants! Should I take Callisto out today, or wait? :/


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Its really personal preference, the chance he will eat the little ones is there but if hes there they are well taken care of. You did well though, when my male reloacated the fry i removed him thinking hed eaten them


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

I think it depends of the fish. Some people take the dad's out as soon as possible, which is right now when they are starting to free swim, others leave them in long term. As long as he's being a good and attentive daddy and not snaking on his fry, I'm thinking you can leave him in there for a good while. I'm leaving Jiro in with the kids till he stops maintaining his bubble nest...right now the bubble nest is going strong and he is still rounding them up every now and then, so, in he stays...


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I think that's what I'm going to do. There's microworms wiggling around in there for the free swimmers, Callisto keeps catching the ones that aren't quite there yet. I've got two, maybe three free swimmers, and at least two in the nest still. Once they're all free swimming I'd like to get a count. >.< But I'll leave him for a day or two more. I don't want to take him out too soon >.<


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure about this, I've heard of it but never actually saw it since I usually breed in black plastic tubs.

Well I did a spawn in a big glass tank (over 50g) and left daddy in with the small number of fry. I fed egg yolk for babies and a mixture of live tubifex, ML, and daphnia for daddy (he is very picky and doesn't eat much). 

After about 5 days (from free swimming) the fry are about 1/2cm and daddy is still rounding them up. I thought he was eating them. But I noticed in the last 2 days the number of fry are similar but their sizes are bigger. 

Well, curious that I am, I literally watched daddy for 3 hours after adding ML and daphnia. He would gently pick out food. Then he would "chase" after fry and keep them in his mouth for some time. I thought the fry were goners because I never saw him spit them out..... half of the tank is covered with other tanks so it's difficult to see. But when I opened the covers, I saw a lot of fry there. He didn't spit them out like when they were newly hatched. Instead he sort of opened his mouth so the fry can swim out.

So I conclude that good daddies actually feed their fry. I hope others with experience would either support or contradict this so I can be 100% sure.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I would be glad if this were true of Callisto too. He doesn't seem to mess with the free swimmers, and when he does I saw him scoop one up, that I thought was a goner too; and then a few minutes later baby was scootching away. I think Callisto just picked him up off the log in there. So strange.

I was watching from over my counter earlier, saw a baby fall from the nest, I'm like go Callisto, go! And sure enough, he swam over, caught him, spit him back up. He does a lot more free swimming and circling now, I think it's cause he knows not all the babies are in the nest now. I keep panicking he's eating them but I don't think he is... >.<


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## Jirothebetta (Jul 15, 2011)

I do believe the males continue to take care of their free swimming babies. I know Jiro freaked me out once the other day, I went and looked into the tank and couldn't see more than like maybe 5 or 6 babies! Then suddenly Jiro swims up to the bubble nest and spits out like maybe 10 or 20 of them right in front of me...it was one of those "Phew!" moments for me XD Its also why I decided to leave him in there, cause he was obviously still taking care of them...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Good daddies do feed and take care of their little ones. My male kept two with him for this last 3 weeks, i suddenly am not finding them so maybe hed had enough but either way hed feed them, chase them down to feed them, build nests all the time they were in there ect.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Huh. I need to decide how long I want him in there then. But as long as there's still nest babies...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah id wait till the nest ones were out then remove, i still had a few nest babies when i removed my male but they managed and were freeswimming hours later.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm trying to keep an eye, but I've still only seen three free swimmers at any one time. The bubble nest is slowly starting to deteriorate though.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Its hard to find them once freeswimming, i just checked the nest and if they werent hanging the i considered them freeswimming. They should all be freeswimming by now id have thought. By tonight then lol XD


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Who knows. I'll probably make a Petco run cause Alma is sick, and then I'll probably take him out when I get back. At this point they have to be pretty self sufficient. I'm dropping microworms in every once in a while, dunno if they're getting eaten but they're in there if the little ones are hungry. >.<


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Aw whats wrong with Alma? Yeah some people just artificially hatch the eggs and never have a dad, the babies manage


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Truth. 

I'm not sure, to be honest. She's clamped, her head is grayed, her appetite is low, and it almost looks like she has a fuzz to her fins, and a bit to her head. It's hard to see, I posted a thread with a pic in the help forum and so far nothing really useful has come up. 

And then in the Betta Chat I posted a "rant" thread you might be interested in reading. I'm still peeved over the issue in question. -_-


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Alma passed in the time it took me to get to Petco to get meds.  I can only hope some of her fry live to carry on her spirit.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Oh no!  Columnaris most likely? Im so sorry to hear that! Breeding weakens the immune system alot i read, I hope you end up with a few little mini Almas also. =[


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm not sure, she's been fine up until yesterday, then she's like ehhh. Then today, instant down hill.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Removed Callisto last night. He's acting like he has no purpose, swimming around all sad like. But he made bubbles last night. I think he wants his babies back >.<

But they're doing good without him. I don't have to strain so hard to see them now, they're slowly growing.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

So I find maybe one baby a day so I can't get an accurate head count. I know they're in there, just not where. lol. 

Anyway, found this little guy today and squealed like a little girl. 

{{Oh, and just to clarify, the white on the bottom of the tank is where I just dropped in some microworms. }}


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Aww, look at that big belly, hes eating well!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Well I got a count of 5. There's one that's much smaller than the others...then two that were still pretty see through. Then two that look like this one.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

yay! thats great news  I'll be keenly spying on this thread to watch their progress :notworthy:


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Aww they are soo adorable! I love reading posts like these.  I'm planning on breeding soonish so just reading up on things


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I thought I was prepared! I lost both parents though. If I try breeding again I plan to have a cycled tank ready for the parents afterward. 

But the good news is the babies are thriving, I've been watching them hunt microworms.  And I got two new Betta's; my bf felt bad about Callisto passing this afternoon and took me to Petco.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Aw im sorry to hear about alma and callisto! So soon =[ Glad to see the fry are doing well though


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Mmhmm, I told my boyfriend I'm keeping all the babies. He's okay with it, esp since so far I've only counted 6. And 2 are muchhh smaller than the others.  In the meantime I did get two new; I posted pics in the Betta Pics forum


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

So I was very sure I'd lost most of the spawn. For days, the most I saw was two. Then I was cleaning the bottom of the tank this morning, and a little guy zoomed away from my "baster". I knew he wasn't one of the two I've been watching because the coloring was different; they're still small but some are darker and some are lighter. Anyway I was stoked to see that I have three. Then about half an hour ago I peeked in to make sure the new water I'm adding was going in okay...and saw 5 little babies staring at me. There's at least 6, I don't know where they're always hiding from me but they're damn good at it.  Needless to say I'm glad I keep food in there all the time. If I'd have been feeding under the assumption that there was only two, the others might have died. 

I need to listen to my boyfriend more; he told me that there had to be more than two since I wasn't finding any bodies... >.<

OH. They have tails now, and little fins.


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## Fermin (Apr 18, 2010)

Sorry to read that the parents passed away


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

I was as well; I wasn't prepared for the fact that spawning can lower the immunity, and something must have gotten them that they were fighting off. I just hope I can save at least a few of the babies. That is my goal, to get at least one baby to adulthood. 

It doesn't seem to be going too bad...*crosses fingers*


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## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Im glad to hear that you have fry from the spawn!!!

They look so cute alreadyand I cant wait to see what they look like all grown up!


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Me either! Watching them grow is the fun part. They were tiny specks, now they're fat little bodies with fish like features...so cute :3

My boyfriend's just stoked he can see them {{his vision isn't amazing lol}}


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