# Help for a goldfish?



## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

I know this is a betta help site, but I was wondering if anyone could help me about my parents' goldfish?

My sister won this goldfish, Gertrude, at a fair two years ago, and she didn't take great care of it. She gladly gave it to me, and we put Gertrude into this 1.77 gallon "goldfish tank." She's been doing great ever since we got her two years ago - she loves to eat, is very active, and is a beautiful color. I just hate keeping her in such a small tank, especially since she keeps growing. And found out recently that this tank is mislabeled and shouldn't be sold for goldfish.. Well, they got us.

SO, I'll be home for a week soon, and I was thinking about buying her a 5 gallon tank. I know it still isn't big enough, but that's as big, if not bigger, than my parents are willing to get. They travel a lot and already aren't thrilled to be caring for my sister's "impulse fish." How exactly should I set up her new tank, and when/how should I put Gertrude in her new tank?

ALSO, my nana has told us several times that she can take Gertrude and put her in her friend's goldfish pond. However, the other goldfish in the pond are much bigger, and I'm afraid they'll eat Gertrude. Or that a bird will eat her. Also, her friend lives the next state over, so Gertrude would have to travel over 3 hours, and I would have no way of making sure she's alright and survives in her new home..

I want what is best for her, but I don't know what to do. Please help?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

First of all, I'm glad you realise goldfish need large tanks. Since you have a common/comet goldfish (single tail, not double tail from what I can see) you're going to need like a 40 gallon tank, not kidding. So, best thing would be to grow her out in the largest tote box you can get if you cannot afford/accommodate a 40g and when she's conditioned, give her to your friend for the pond. In the long run, she will be happpier. 

I think they like company as well, so a 40g would house her and ONE more similar sized goldfish.


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Laki said:


> First of all, I'm glad you realise goldfish need large tanks. Since you have a common/comet goldfish (single tail, not double tail from what I can see) you're going to need like a 40 gallon tank, not kidding. So, best thing would be to grow her out in the largest tote box you can get if you cannot afford/accommodate a 40g and when she's conditioned, give her to your friend for the pond. In the long run, she will be happpier.
> 
> I think they like company as well, so a 40g would house her and ONE more similar sized goldfish.


Ok thanks! And yeah a 40 gallon is most definitely not feasible.. 5 gallon is as big as my parents want to deal with. Also, I have no idea what this means: "best thing would be to grow her out in the largest _tote box _you can get if you cannot afford/accommodate a 40g and _when she's conditioned_, give her to your friend for the pond." Sorry, I'm new to fish tank language!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

oh here you are! :lol:

Laki means one of these:


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

So keep her in a storage container instead of a tank?? For how long? Man I'm so new to this..


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

If I got something like this, how often would I need to clean it? Would I still need to put in a filter and decorations and everything?

http://www.target.com/p/ultra-latch-70-qt-storage-boxes/-/A-670079#prodSlot=medium_1_1


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Laki has given you some great advice. I agree that the best thing to do is grow her out in a plastic bin like the one you linked. Try to get one as large as possible. It is warming up in the Northern Hemisphere now, so you could most certainly keep something like that outside for most of the summer. You would need to filter it and do water changes regularly like you do with a betta. If you keep the bin outside then live floating plants on the top would be great to help with filtration. You won't need a substrate in it as this is just a grow-out tank. Maybe your parents will let you do this under the condition that it's just temporary and can even be used to store things in the garage when you're done. 

If you're looking for some large bins, you should look at the Sterilite bins that Walmart carries. These are nice and large for goldfish.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

As for "consition" I meant get her used to the natural weather cycles and temperature fluctuations by keeping her outside as thekoimaiden suggested.

Unfortunately for millions of goldfish, they do not do well in small tanks with bad filtration.


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok I think this may be a definite possibility! I doubt my parents would have a problem keeping her out on the back deck in this tub. If I get one like the one I linked, which is abou 17-18 gallons, what kind of filter should I get? And how should I change the water, clean it, set it up, decorate it, etc.? This sounds like it may work out great, so any instructions for me to follow to keep from messing this up would be great! 

I live in GA, so it's getting pretty warm, but we're having nights in the upper forties for the next week or so. How cold is too cold for a goldfish?


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

OK SO I'M REALLY EXCITED! I just called my mom to ask her what she'd like to do about Gertrude. At first, she thought the plastic tub idea was really weird. But then she came around. Also, she suggested that we build our own goldfish pond in the front yard this summer! So we could keep Gertrude and even buy a few more goldfish her size, depending on how large we make the pond. That way, we'll be able to get Gertrude into a better home, keep an eye on her, and spruce up the front yard all at the same time!

Our main concern is the weather. It's going to be in the mid forties - mid fifties overnight this whole week. Would Gertrude be ok outside in that temperature? Ans again, and advice on how to set her up in a new tub would be greatly appreciated!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Congrats on getting the go-ahead for a pond! They can be lots and lots of fun. First I'll address the temp issues... It is too cold right now to just stick her outside. A temp shock like that has a good chance of killing her. Goldfish can take temps down to freezing, but they need to be slowly acclimated over weeks. Because we've had this cold snap (I'm north of you in southern Virginia) it's not going to be a good idea to put her outside right now. I was planning to do a small tub pond this year and have had to put those plans on hold, too. You should wait until nighttime temps don't go below 60F before putting her outside. In small containers the water temp will drop much faster than in large ones. 

I'll answer your questions here to let others see them and add their input. 

*Is there a certain brand/type of plastic I should avoid?*
You want plastic that is safe to hold food for human consumption. Pretty sure Sterilite bins are safe. For the actual pond, you should look at prefabricated liners. Shoot for something between 150 and 300 gallons. The larger you go, the larger your goldfish will get!

*Will the temperature change kill her? Nights are supposed to be in the high forties and low fifties here in GA for the next week or more.*
Right now, she could die from that temp change. Tanks inside typically don't go below 60F inside and a rapid drop in temp like she would experience in a small tub outside would be detrimental to her health. This cold snap is going to put a dent in your plans unfortunately, but that's just part of the game with ponds and tubs outside. We aren't in charge... mother nature is. 

*What kind of filter should I put in there?*
In her little tub, something as simple as a sponge filter would work. Or even just a bubbler for water movement if you can score some floating pond plants like water lettuce, duckweed, or water hyacinth. For the pond, most people have waterfall filters. The water is pumped from the bottom of the pond up through a hose into a container above the pond and flows back over rocks. 
*
How often should I clean the water, and how much water should I change at a time?*
I'd say change the water once a week doing about 50% water changes. So as not to send her into shock, pour all of the water from her little tank into the tub and then fill the rest up with dechlorinated water. With your pond, you won't need to do regular water changes. Again mother nature takes over. When it rains, the pond will overflow (some have overflow spouts built into them so it doesn't go everywhere) and drive out the old water. The rain coming into the pond is the fresh water. 

*Should I put in plants and decorations?*
Put all of the gravel and stuff from her old tank into the tub. These have beneficial bacteria that will aid in cycling the tub super quick. I'm a live plant fiend. Always live plants!!! Floating plants will be best both in the tub and pond. Marginal plants like iris and cattails are great in a pond. Iris add lovely color and cattails grow rather fast and help suck up nutrients. You'll have to see what's available in your area. The neat thing about ponds is that you become both gardener and fishkeeper! 

The last bit of info I can give you is to look for local pond clubs. These people have ponds in your area and will know the little ins and outs such as just how deep your pond needs to be to escape freezing over in the winter. And a lot of times they will give you extra plants. Pond plants need to be trimmed just like aquarium plants and some people don't like just throwing those plants away. Most the the plants in my pond were gifts from other pondkeepers in the area!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Not sure how to filter and maintain an outdoor goldfish pond but I know they need super crazy filtration. Live plants should be present, duckweed, water sprite and dwarf lettuce are good floaters which will help hide the fish from predators and give them something to snack on (so you should have a separate water plant tank for extras to grow out). As for decorations, drop some weighted silk plants in or a ping pong ball - there's not much point trying to keep a nice planted tank with decorations because they'll dig it all up 

I also don't know goldfish temp hardniess, I know they're okay in colder waters ... Maybe a weather safe heater could keep the water from dropping below a certain temp, I don't know.


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thanks for all of the advice! So when I go home, I'll buy a sterilite tub (as large as I can find) and a filter for a 20 gallan tank.

Any recommendations on which filter I should get? The cheaper, the better..

Also, can I use betta water conditioner to condition the new water that I put in the tub?

Lastly, I'll add all of her current gravel, water, and little silk plant in the tub. But should I wait before adding any other decorations? Do they sell those water plants at petsmart/petco?

Ok really lastly, would it be ok to keep her in front of a window for now until it warms up outside? With having to keep this big tub inside, the only place I can think to put it is on the kitchen floor, and the kitchen is full of has northwest facing floor to ceiling windows. So is the living room. I'd hate to have to keep her in the study on the other side of the house, since no one really ever goes in there.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

You're welcome! Ponds are fun!

A sponge filter and air pump will be cheaper than most power filters. If you do get a power filter, just get the generic petsmart/petco store brand ones. You won't be using it for long. 

Betta water conditioner is just water dechlorinator with a fancy name. It's fine to use on all fish. Since you will be doing larger water changes you might want to pick up a bottle of Prime or API water conditioner. They are more concentrated, and you'll use less of them when doing water changes. 

You can add new decor with her old if you want. I have this hallow log thing that I like to put in with my goldfish when they go in tubs. It's very large and they like to hide in it. Silk plants would work well, too. 

It's just fine to keep her in front of a window provided there are no major drafts or anything.


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok it's all coming together! I'll probably try to get a power filter, since she's such a dirty little thing, and I want to make sure it stays at clean as possible.

I'll pick up a larger bottle of conditioner when I get the filter. And I looked at the petsmart website, and they don't have any floating plants. Are any of these plants okay for the tub?

http://www.petsmart.com/family/inde...11210138&fbc=1&fbn=Taxonomy|Live+Plants&fbx=0

And I'll definitely get her some kind of shelter decoration for her to hide in. 

For the water changes, I think someone mentioned 50% changes once a week? Do I need to get a vacuum? For my betta, I do 1-100% and 1-50% each week for his 2.5 gallon tank, and when I do the 100%, I swirl the pebbles around in some fresh water to get the gunk out. But I don't wipe anything down.


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## WolfHhowling (Apr 10, 2013)

fishnewbie1419 said:


> Ok it's all coming together! I'll probably try to get a power filter, since she's such a dirty little thing, and I want to make sure it stays at clean as possible.
> 
> I'll pick up a larger bottle of conditioner when I get the filter. And I looked at the petsmart website, and they don't have any floating plants. Are any of these plants okay for the tub?
> 
> ...


Sweet heart I know for a fact they sell banana lillies, ( those will grow leaves that will eventually float on the top) 

And I know they sell water sprite. They float too... so does hornwort, but petsmart doesn't sell that nore does petco. Any way, you can use all kinds of plants in the tub. As long as there is a fish in it lol


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

WolfHhowling said:


> Sweet heart I know for a fact they sell banana lillies, ( those will grow leaves that will eventually float on the top)
> 
> And I know they sell water sprite. They float too... so does hornwort, but petsmart doesn't sell that nore does petco. Any way, you can use all kinds of plants in the tub. As long as there is a fish in it lol


I completely believe you - I just didn't see any on the website. I don't have a petsmart near me right now and won't be able to go until Wednesday at the earliest, so I was just going off of what they have on their website.

And it looks like they do carry hornwort, but I didn't know that was a floating plant from the picture. Reviewers said that it's very messy and sheds a lot, so I think I'll try to find something that doesn't grow quite so fast and is a bit tidier.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

Honwort isn't that messy imo. but I'm a disorganized person. the mess doesn't bug me and adds to the look 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Well I love Hornwort but yes it can be messy if it starts to shed and sometimes it does good for awhile and then starts shedding and yes you can leave it floating. What is really great as a floating plant is Anacharis , I have it floating in my tank. If they do have Banana Lillies I would get a couple of those mine grows so fast and has the floating leaves on top of the surface of the water. If you cant find them and want some let me know I know a great place to get them if you can order on line or your mom could order them for you.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Petsmart and Petco don't have the selection of pond plants that you'll eventually need for the pond but things like anarcharis, hornwort, and java fern will do for now. They will all grow floating. But be ware; not all stores carry the same stock. What I have at my Petsmart and Petco you might not have at yours. 

You will have to make an extra trip to a pond store of LFS to look for true pond plants like iris and water hyacinth. You might also be able to order them online, too. Or again, someone from a local pond club might be able to give/sell you some. 

As for water changes, if you don't have a siphon it would be a good idea to pick up a small one. That is the easiest way to do water changes. A tank of this size is going to be different from your smaller betta tanks. You'll need to cycle this tank; this is why we recommend plants so strongly. You can read up on cycling here: A Beginner's Guide to the Freshwater Aquarium Cycle


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

You can make an ad on kijiji or craigslist asking for extra clippings of plants. I got my tank stocked on free clippings from someone on reddit, and there's usually people on my kijiji looking to sell their extra plants. Some grow crazy out of hand and people just want to get rid of them. So try that avenue. 

Another thing, go to large chain pet stores (I went to one called PetsUnlimited under the PJ's Pets logo) and asked for a "bit" of salvinia for free bc they were struck with such a pile of it which wouldn't stop growing. I got that a little over a year ago and it's low light, been growing it very well. 

Good luck!


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok great! I'll ask around and see what kinds of plants I can find once I'm home for the summer.

Also, if I'm understanding this cycling thing correctly, I should NOT be putting Gertrude in her new tank once I set it up this week, right? From what I gather, I'll need to buy the plastic tub and some starter plants and just let it all sit for about a month and a half without her in it? Should I add the filter while I let it cycle?

And I'm guessing I'll need to buy a water test kit? I have a strip test kit for my betta now, but it looks like I'll need to get the fancier version.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Actually it will probably be easier on Gertrude to do a fish-in cycle with plants. This is going to mean water changes every couple of days depending on how much bacteria is on the decor from her old tank as well as how many plants you can get. With luck the tank she is currently in is cycled, and placing all the decor that is in that tank directly into her tub will speed up the cycling process. It is important that you DON'T wash it in tapwater because this will kill the good bacteria. 

I know this is a lot to take in, but you'll get the hang of it! And we're here to help with any questions you have!


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## fishnewbie1419 (Apr 13, 2013)

Hmm.. Ok I think I got it now! Only problem is that my mom just replaced all of Gertrude's water yesterday and likely rinsed out the gravel with tap water. They just got back from Florida and the water had gotten pretty dirty. This was all before we came up with the idea to get Gertrude a new tank that then evolved into a tub and ultimately a pond. I'll ask her tomorrow just how much she cleaned the tank, gravel, and the lone little silk plant.

I'll get as many plants as possible, so hopefully that will help the process. Do you think 50% water changes twice a week using a gravel hose thing will be enough while it's cycling? Should I get a liquid test kit or just assume it's working? My mom will be handling all of this for the next few weeks, so I'm hoping to keep maintenance at a minimum for her.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd certainly recommend getting a liquid kit. They are just really handy to have around, but it will be a pain for your mother to test the water daily. Your schedule of 50% twice weekly should be good with lot of live plants.

With the cleaner water you should begin to see a bit of growth on her. She's stunted so she won't reach max size, but you should be able to get 5-6 inches from her. Let's hope she looks so much bigger next time you see her!


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