# Clamped fins, Lethargic.



## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gallon
What temperature is your tank? 76-79
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Alone

Food 
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? A mix of pellets and blood worms.
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice daily

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? a weekly 10 percent, and a 25 percent every 2 weeks.

What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Regular aquarium conditioner


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? All fins are clamped tight.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Very lethargic.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Yesterday
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? My aquarium thermometer was broken, so I messed around with heater settings. Seemed to help a little.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Nope, he's been here four days
How old is your fish (approximately)? I just got him four days ago. He is full grown, but still young.



OKAY!

I just got a new veil about four days ago, and named him Mocha. In the store his fins were very open, and he was extremely energetic. When I got home, I transferred him to the five gallon, which had been cycled three weeks. After floating him for an hour, I set him free, and he spent hours exploring, and showed much interest in everything around him. Day two it was the same. Day three he became lethargic, and I got a little worried, but he was still swimming around. Today he was on the bottom of the tank, unmoving for anything, and when he does return to the surface for air, his fins are all clamped tight. I checked the thermometer in the tank and it showed 81, so I unplugged it for about an hour to lower the temperature a bit, as it had been a hot day and he was in direct sunlight. Once I checked the thermometer again, it still said 81. I put my hand in the water to do a test between his and another tank, and his was quite cold, so I adjusted the heater and plugged it in. He seems a tough more active, however I'm not too sure if a simple temperature issue could cause problems four days in, as I never once changed the heater after adding her. If someone could help me figure this out, I would really appreciate it... I am very worried!


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Can you check your ammonia?? This is what happens with my guys when ammonia is too high.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I tested on the two week mark of the cycle and it was 0, however my cat wrecked the ammonia bottle, so I need to get a new set. I did a 50% change before adding the fish though, if it helps.


*Edit* Should I bring up the temperature to 86 to treat velvet? I'm worried that with the heat wave he'll over heat.... I can't tell shining a light on him, as he is purple, lol.

*editedit* He's struggling to swim, all of his fins are closed right up. It's like he's trying to propel himself with twin pieces of string...


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Your ammonia could be high, without a test you'll never know  I personally would do a water change and see if that helps him. Other than that, I would put him in a 1g with 1/2 tsp of AQ salt, tomorrow do a 100% water change and add 1 tsp of AQ salt. 

Why would you need to treat for Velvet? Sometimes it takes more than 3 weeks to cycle a tank. Zero ammonia doesn't mean it's cycled. Zero ammonia, zero NitrItes and NitrAtes under 20 would mean it's cycled.

Sorry I'm not much help, my experience is limited. But no one else is posting here, so I just wanted you to know at least I care about your boy. I'm sorry I can't do much else


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I did a 25% change a little while back, and just now since he is out of hiding, attacked him with a flashlight. It's too hard to tell because of his coloration and because I am unfamiliar with him, but I'm going to assume the goldish tinge under his fins and gills is velvet, but I am inexperienced at stuff like this, as I have only treated fin rot and swim bladder problems... My camera isn't good enough to get the colors. It looks like a gold powder on his underside, but his fins also look to be powdered purple and blue, which are his natural colors.

I wish new Betta didn't get sick like this...


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

2/3 of my guys were sick when I took them in  It sucks. I hear velvet is horrible. Could you google pictures? You would know best since you can see him. 

A 5g tank that might not be cycled yet would need 25% water change at least twice a week. If you change anything more than that, you're killing off good bacteria. Since the walls dry, the bacteria dies off. Anything that dries, kills. Every time you do a 75% change, you're doing another minicycle.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Sorry, typo, it was only a 25% change I did, as scheduled. XD If I were to do a 75%, I might as well go all the way, clean it completely and house Mocha in a bowl.

Oh, found a pic. Yup, Mocha looks like he had has early stages of velvet. Up goes the temperature, and in goes the salt. If anyone has anything else to add, please do so in case I missed something!


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I just want to say good luck with it! I've battled ich in a 29g and a 10g... my Carnage didn't make it  I really hope you got this early enough!


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

This little fish had spunk, that is why I got him. If he is worse tomorrow I'll move him to a smaller bowl that I can do more water changes in until I can test ammonia.

He seems to be a fighter, he'll make it. He has to open his fins..I haven't even taken pictures of him yet!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aside from the velvet, Mocha may be a little stressed from the dramatic temperature changes. If you can, it's best to move his tank to somewhere out of direct sunlight. It sounds like he got quite warm and then when the sun went away, quite cold. That could easily shock a betta. 

Has Mocha been rubbing up against anything or flashing like he's trying to dislodge parasites? Do his gills move heavily, like they are working extra hard?

For velvet, you will want to keep the temp high and the tank dark. Velvet is light-sensitive and the light will make it multiply faster. QT him immediately. Better yet, have two QT bowls ready, this will make it easier. When he's ready for his daily water change, simply transfer him to the new clean water with aquarium salt, then completely rinse out the old bowl to get rid of any parasites that fell off. By repeating this, you can just transfer him from bowl to bowl, eliminating the odds of any parasites remaining to reattach. Now, from what I'm reading in my fish disease books, getting rid of velvet can take a while so be prepared for a long battle. 

You can also use commercial medications but offhand, I can only think of ParaGuard.

I hope this helps and I hope Mocha gets better quickly. Fortunately, it sounds like he is in only the early stages so I think you have a very good chance of beating it.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm worried that moving him lots may stress him out even more. He's moving a lot and is aware of what is going on, so I'm thinking he has a good chance of beating it with temperature regulations (he's out of the sun now) and darkness. He's really beautiful... a lucky find. It'd be a shame if he stays ill..

He isn't rubbing, just perching. His breathing is normal too. I feel a lot of his weakness is loss of energy from zipping around his new home, due to our work schedules someone in the house is up at all times, and they let me know he was very active during most times. His fins started unclamping a little at the water change. When I put some salt in the water he came out of hiding and had a look, so the stable water temperature did help, although the instability helped me find the velvet early enough.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Listen to Sakura, she's awesome  

What does he look like?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*blush* Aww, shucks, thanks, Pitluvs.

Lordsameth, if you don't want to use two bowls, that's fine. But you'll still have to move him somehow to do the daily water changes. You MUST do those to get all the parasites out but how you do them is totally up to you.  

No rubbing, then. Is he breathing heavily? And could you possibly take a pic of him?


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I believe the camera isn't good enough to get pictures of colors and such.. maybe a video would work?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Never mind. But I would still advise the daily water changes.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I'll get some pics in a few. He's in his pirate ship.

Yes I do plan on moving him to a bowl, but I can't do it until I've cat-proofed the bowl. It kind of has to wait until tomorrow because it's pretty late and I've got to get some sleep for work. 

Hi breathing is normal, he seems healthy enough, just tired and fin clamped. I'm not even 100% sure he has velvet, the gold might be part of his color.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Then definitely just stick with AQ salt, no meds. It won't hurt him if he really doesn't have velvet. Keep us posted.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Here come the pics!

This first one.. imagine those gorgeous fins opened!


















In these next two, look near the eye, see where it is golden? What do you think?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Are the gold spots by his eyes sparkly-like? And does he have any gold on top of his head or back? It doesn't look like it but maybe you can verify that.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

It does glitter, yes, but so does his tail if you look at the blue streaks in the lit picture. It goes under his belly a short ways, but it isn't too extensive. When the light is shined on it though, it looks like gold powder. In the light those spots are slightly darker.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

And you don't remember him having those glittery spots before? Because I'm beginning to think the gold is natural coloring. Velvet doesn't glitter. Two of my light-colored males both have goldish coloring on their heads that could easily be mistaken for velvet but isn't. I'm thinking the clamped fins are from the temp changes. You might be in luck, he might not have velvet after all, Lordsameth.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

*feels soooo relieved*

I'm glad I got good pictures then. The temperature has been stable for the past hour, and his fins are beginning to open up again. I really hope he is all well for the morning, and is just tired from his adventures over the passed couple days.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, I really hope that is it too. *phew* Velvet usually has heavy breathing and it often starts on the back and sides. A bit of quiet, some rest, and I'm thinking Mocha will be okay. Definitely update us in the morning on how he's doing.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Absolutely! *off to bed*


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, a good morning to all (likely afternoon and evening in the rest of the world)

I got up today and poor Mocha is looking much worse. His fins are still clamped tight, and he seems unable to keep himself up. I've moved him to a fish bowl placed inside the heated tank, and I'll keep an eye on any improvement over the day.... I'm very worried now...


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

You said you only had him 4 days, yes?
I'm thinking maybe he is still adjusting to his new home. Whenever I get fish from petco, their ammonia levels are always through the roof and it takes them a few days to recover, especially if they had ammonia poisining. 



> he seems unable to keep himself up


 like unable to swim to the surface? Or having bouyancy issues?

whenever I had a betta that was lethargic with clamped fins, something in the water chemisty was off. Ammonia was too high, or something. I use stress coat as a water conditioner and that seems to work well.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I am using both a water conditioner and stress coat. I've got him is QT and he's all busy exploring and such. His problem isn't that he can't swim, it's that when he swims up he kind of sinks tail down, likes he's too tired to swim to the bottom. If his fins open later in the day I know it is time to take apart the actual tank for a good scrubbing... I have a feeling there is something in the water that leaving for several days won't fix...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Epsom salts. You can get them at any drugstore, make sure it's plain epsom salt with no scents or colors or additives. Treatment is 1 tsp per gallon, pre dissolve in tank water before adding to his QT. It helps to mix up a 1 gallon batch.  If he shows no improvement after 5 days, up the dosage to 2 tsp per gallon.  Poor Mocha.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

I checked him when I got home today, no change....wait he swam up for air! *sigh* I've been so stressed over this little guy...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, they're really good at giving gray hairs. I hope the epsom salts help him. Get better soon, Mocha!


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Today there is a little more energy. His fins seem less clamped, but he is still camping down at the bottom. When I move him to a container to clean his bowl I'm going to try and feed him a couple pellets... He hasn't eaten in almost a week.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Bettas can go for up to two weeks without food. Not that they should, but they can. I hope he eats something. You can try soaking the pellet in garlic juice, it might entice his appetite and the garlic will boost his immune system.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

not eating yet. I'll keep trying...his tail split, and is still clamped.... *sigh*


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Is he still struggling with swim bladder issues?


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

This one doesn't have swim bladder issues. He seems to swim okay, just kind of down looking...

His bottom fin opened up throughout today though, and he seems to like the smaller tank he's in.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh, for some reason I thought he had swim bladder problems. That's good he doesn't.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Swim bladder issues killed one of my Betta though...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

We'll keep an eye on Mocha and make sure that doesn't happen again.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

OMG UPDATE~~~

He was swimming around so I put some pellets in... and he started pushing them around his mouth. Didn't eat them, but he chilled right out, and his fins began to unclamp. He is extremely interested in the pellets and I'm sure he'll try to eat them soon. I see a recovery~~~

Look at the improvement from page 2! See why I tried so hard to save him?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay Mocha! He looks like a completely different fish! Perhaps he is one who thrives in a smaller tank; some bettas do seem to have agoraphobia. You've done a good job with him.

Also, I see absolutely no signs of velvet anywhere.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Today's update: Got outta bed, and he was NOT on the floor of his tank! I threw some pellets in and he jumped! His fins are almost completely unclamped, and he is very hyper and happy. He seems to love the new tank, even though it is very tiny. Despite this I do plan on working him into something a touch bigger so I can fit some plants and a cave in, but for now he is enjoying a tank with nothing but a tiny plant and a couple food pellets.

On top of that, Macchiato is enjoying the five gallon sooo much. He was in the teeny tiny tank, and was happy in it (bubble nests galore!), so this is his first time in anything larger than a 1.5 gallon. I never noticed how big he's gotten, or how long his fins have grown, but he needed a larger tank. He is MASSIVE! He seems to like all the room (and new hiding spots) and greeted me with a bubble nest this morning! So win all around for my fishies!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay! I'm glad to hear all the good news, Lordsameth.  I'm very glad Mocha is back to his energetic self and I bet Macchiato is thrilled to be able to stretch his fins.


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Got home from work and was greeted by another bubble nest...from Mocha!!!

Quick recovery, what an amazing fighter!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Awesome, sounds like he's definitely on that road to recovery.  Way to go Mocha!


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