# Show trends



## Maddybelle

So, I'm just curious: what are the hot trends lately in show bettas? Superblack, marble/fancy, butterfly? What seems to be the most desired/sought after color/pattern in the show world? The most uncommon?


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## homegrown terror

i've been seeing a LOT of whites, metallics and orchids lately. the show market seems to be steering somewhat away from HM's to HMPK's as well.


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## vilmarisv

There's really no trends at shows. The fish will either fit a color standard or it will not. 
Color is very dificult and you have to be very selective. Butterflies have to be 50/50, Solids must me clean, multis need 3+ colors, etc. 
The IBC handbook, which you can only get if you're a member, will explain all of this.


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## Maddybelle

Thanks guys.
vilmarisv: what I meant was, what is popular with breeders. What are people breeding, and what colors seem to have a "wow" factor? What isn't seen much at shows? I'm getting an IBC membership as an early Christmas present, so I can finally read The Almighty Handbook!


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## inareverie85

In the IBC, in general, if there's a class for it, people breed it.

I'm not sure what the most "popular" classes are, honestly. There are plenty of breeders within each of the classes.

I say don't go for what's popular or what is rare.. Breed what you like best.  It makes the whole process more exciting.


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## Maddybelle

Yeah, I was just wondering. =) "Market saturation" and all. Sorry, I'm a businesswoman at heart, LOL!


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## ChoclateBetta

DTs are awesome but halfmoons seem popular.


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## Option

homegrown terror said:


> i've been seeing a LOT of whites, metallics and orchids lately.


Orchids? Can someone edumacate me on this variety??


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## Maddybelle

*Black orchid:* A black betta with blue, green, or turquoise iridescence.


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## Mo

Heavily branched HM's are getting common in the show world.


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## homegrown terror

Mo said:


> Heavily branched HM's are getting common in the show world.


wasn't it just earlier this year that rosetails and feathertails were considered a cull-able flaw? now, it seems like the more branching you can put out the better, without the little guys ripping their fins into confetti, of course!


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## Mo

A qoute from Karen Mac Auley. Last years grand champion of the IBC with over 10 awards in 3-4 years for BOS fish
"Most of my fish are extreme OHM.....All of my BOS fish are OHM......"

Heavily branched fish seem to be preferred by judges now. But some people still don't advocate the breeding of this characteristic


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## homegrown terror

Mo said:


> A qoute from Karen Mac Auley. Last years grand champion of the IBC with over 10 awards in 3-4 years for BOS fish
> "Most of my fish are extreme OHM.....All of my BOS fish are OHM......"
> 
> Heavily branched fish seem to be preferred by judges now. But some people still don't advocate the breeding of this characteristic


i can see that, from a purely humane standpoint. has anyone done a study of any kind on just how much quality of life is lost in extreme-finned bettas?


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## ChoclateBetta

How are Deltas doing?


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## Mo

not well at all... Deltas are rarely shown as it is a fault.. also I dont think anyone has done an actual study on that


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## ChoclateBetta

Well I still love carter and deltas. How are Chocolates doing?


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## homegrown terror

Mo said:


> not well at all... Deltas are rarely shown as it is a fault.. also I dont think anyone has done an actual study on that


well i'd be interested to see one. then again if i did, i might be traumatised into only keeping plakats if the results showed horribly negative for long-fins.


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## ChoclateBetta

Carter has fins that are reasonably long he swims great.


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## homegrown terror

ChoclateBetta said:


> Carter has fins that are reasonably long he swims great.


so do ours, i'm just curious how much extra effort they have to put into moving at the same speed. there are plenty of people who can run very fast wearing ankle weights, but they run even faster without them


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## ChoclateBetta

It does not seem to bother Carter.


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## Maddybelle

My orange OHM male, Quasar, has a bit of a rosetail. It doesn't seem to affect his quality of life at all - in fact, he's my feistiest fish! Always flaring and swimming around, never a dull moment with this guy. I think his branching is part of what makes him beautiful. I don't think the issue should be with branching so much, but with the strength of the rays. Look at Karen's fish, for instance. Hers have lots of branching, but they have amazingly thick, strong rays, which allow them to carry their huge fins well. Which is why I'm planning on outcrossing heavily to strong HMPK s if I continue my non-red HM line, to get nice strong rays.


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## ChoclateBetta

How are Plakats doing?


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## ChibreneyDragon

Ive been considering crossing my OHM to a HMPK, the Rosetail quality seems difficult to manage, and risky in breeding for the young. What are the statistics on crossing OHM with HMPK? Is it usually a solid improvement? Or is there a bit of line breeding work involved?


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## ChoclateBetta

Are Deltas doing bad because of the difficulty in making good ones?


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## Mo

No. Because they don't have a 180 degree spread on there caudals. Also crossing an HMPK to an HM results in HM's with thicker bodies & rays, and typically less branching


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## ChoclateBetta

But do you agree DTs are nice?


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## Mo

IMO. Show wise, no. I would cull them or give them away my self for free but as a pet, I like them but prefer shot finned fish as pets


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## ChoclateBetta

What is shot finned?


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## Mo

Short finned HM's, HM plakats, and plakats


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## ChoclateBetta

Okay, My second favorite is EEs.


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## Hijae

I think all the marble and the pure white or gold


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## ChoclateBetta

How are EEs in shows?


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## Maddybelle

I don't think EEs are showable, their huge pectorals make them look unbalanced. Personally I think that, considering how popular they're becoming, the IBC should create a new class just for them.


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## ChoclateBetta

They are nice.


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## Mo

the Big ears ruin the symmetry that all show fish call for


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## ChoclateBetta

What fin type has the highest chance of winning?


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## Mo

None..


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## ChoclateBetta

So what is the most common?


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## Mo

The most common winner in a show? Well probably HM's since most people breed those but out of the tail types eligible to show,, one isn't any more likely to win than the other


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## ChoclateBetta

What a out the ones you said ate not widely accepted?


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## Mo

Well those ones have faults so they are unlikely to win such as Veiltails and Deltas


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## ChoclateBetta

Okay so some are lower chance but rest are same?


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## Mo

Well. They all have the same chance.. No matter what thrush I think they start out with 100 points but for every flaw found a certain amount of points are deducted, the amounts depends on whether they wer minor, severe, etc.


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## ChoclateBetta

Reminds me of school.


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## MoonShadow

Vts don't have a class of their own in IBC shows (though they do in international shows) but they can be shown in open classes. I personally feel that vts should have their own class, but I've been told by many IBC members (including the president of the IBC) that they'll never make it into the shows until people start breeding serious VT show lines... which is something I plan on doing. 

I personally do not like the heavily branched HMs (though Karens are nice and strong and seem to hold up well) they seem to age quicker, wear down faster and are more prone to tail biting because their poor fins are so heavy!


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## ChibreneyDragon

MoonShadow said:


> Vts don't have a class of their own in IBC shows (though they do in international shows) but they can be shown in open classes. I personally feel that vts should have their own class, but I've been told by many IBC members (including the president of the IBC) that they'll never make it into the shows until people start breeding serious VT show lines... which is something I plan on doing.
> 
> I personally do not like the heavily branched HMs (though Karens are nice and strong and seem to hold up well) they seem to age quicker, wear down faster and are more prone to tail biting because their poor fins are so heavy!


I agree on how hard on the fish the excessive branching seems to be. I have an OHM that I just spawned, and he is so exhausted by spawning that he barely tends the nest. He just floats near the top.


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## hannah16

Personally, I like EEs but I do understanding as far as showing, they can't be as "normal" bettas shouldn't have the flaw.

Also, I hope people make show lined VTs, it'll take hard work but it'll be worth it. I think it would be great. 

Lastly, I think Orange Dals are considered a fault? But I love them ;w;....


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## ChibreneyDragon

hannah16 said:


> Personally, I like EEs but I do understanding as far as showing, they can't be as "normal" bettas shouldn't have the flaw.
> 
> Also, I hope people make show lined VTs, it'll take hard work but it'll be worth it. I think it would be great.
> 
> Lastly, I think Orange Dals are considered a fault? But I love them ;w;....


i've always wondered at tha, how does one make a "show VT"? The tail itself is sloppy looking, and if you cleaned it up, it would end up just looking like a delta. Thats why I think VTs arent in shows anymore.


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## hannah16

I personally like the sloped VT. In all honesty, Most likely, what was your first betta? A VT. Not always, but a lot of times. Or maybe a sloppy looking Walmart CT. Those make us fall in love with bettas.

The tail is slopped, and long as they are bred with nice females, I think a show line can be made for the VTs.


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## KirstenMarie

Everyone I know with Bettas have started out with VTs, including me.

I myself prefer Black or white Rosetails. With me, the heaviest branching is the best! As long as it stays out of the feathertail region, of course. Feathertails just seems to messy for my taste.


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## aemaki09

I can see both sides to the VT argument.
They really arent symmetrical, so how are they supposed to be judged with all the other tail types?
BUT they are what got most people in this hobby to begin with, so it would be nice to see them at the shows.
I can see them making a class for them, but how would they be judged in the BOS classes? The judges would have to look for completely different flaws on them than all the other fish in the class.


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## Mo

Aemeki what are you talking about? Lol. All different tail types, and colors have different judging criteria already


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## ChibreneyDragon

Mo said:


> Aemeki what are you talking about? Lol. All different tail types, and colors have different judging criteria already


I think what he is getting at is that most of the point standards are ABOUT symmetry! VTs dont HAVE that.
But I too started with a VT. I loved him very much.


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## hannah16

Perhaps they could judge based on color and maybe they could set a standard about the slop of the tail? 

I don't know, either way I'd love to see a VT class. My first betta was a VT so they'll always have a place in my heart.


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## aemaki09

ChibreneyDragon said:


> I think what he is getting at is that most of the point standards are ABOUT symmetry! VTs dont HAVE that.
> But I too started with a VT. I loved him very much.


Yup that's exactly what I mean. When judging other tails they look for symmetry, how can they do that with VT's? They cant. So it'd be completely different

My thinking on this is that at dog shows, judges look for all the same flaws and characteristics on each dog, thOugh it may be tweaked a little from breed to breed its still the same. Same with horse shows, they are all judged by the same standards unless it's color.
I know these are fish so it's different. But I've been showing dogs and horses since I was 8 so 14 years, so that's what I am used to


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## MoonShadow

In international shows there are classes for the veiltails, there was actually a show in Holland (I believe) back in August where the winner of the male veiltail class also won Best of Show

This was the male


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## aemaki09

MoonShadow said:


> In international shows there are classes for the veiltails, there was actually a show in Holland (I believe) back in August where the winner of the male veiltail class also won Best of Show
> 
> This was the male


Nice!! I didn't know that! Can you find out how they are judged Both by themselves and compared to others?


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## Maddybelle

Found this on MoonShadowBettas.com:

Bettas4all (an international betta specific forum) have developed their own international show standard for the veiltail betta, and in shows over in the netherlands and such bettas are allowed in the shows. According to bettas4all the show standard for a veiltail betta is as follows
• *Standard Veiltail* (VT)
• *Dorsal* (dorsal fin)
_The Dorsal is narrower at its base and has fewer rays than the (other fin variants.)_*(1)*_The fin should run in a sickle-shaped manner and not exceed over ¾ of the body length of the fish. It should not (run out in individual rays.) _*(2)*_Overlapping of the Dorsal over the fish body is not desired._
• *Caudal* (caudal fin)
_The caudal fin should be full with a broad base, but (long stretched.) _*(3)*_It should be at least the same length as the body of the fish. The rays come out of the tail root steeply rising in the upper part of the fin and then after reaching its highest point at 20% of the entire fin length, drop down in an even (elbow.)_*(4)*
_Within the lower part of the fin the rays come out almost straight
from the tail root with an (easy upward arranged)_*(5)*_curvature and then
drop down parallel to the other fin rays. Thus results in a light sickle-shaped (long stretched optics.) _*(6)*_ The Caudal must be able to be
carried easily by the fish in its entire length. The ends of the rays
should not have any spikes or indentations. An (easily corrugated)_*(7)*_
fin border is permitted. The fin volume is to be stretched completely
(not too many rays and/or too much skin between the rays, no
pleating) when the fish flairs._
• *Anal* (anal fin)
_The anal fin should (set up at the highest point of the body)_*(8)*_ and
be at least as long as the body and run out in its deepest end
(pointedly. The form is to resemble a parallelogram.)_*(9)*
• *Ventrals* (ventral fins)
_The ventral fins are to be the same length as one another and should look like a curved knife blade. They should BE at least 1/3 as long as the
body._


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## ChoclateBetta

Isnt Chocolate technicaly Dark colored Bi-color?


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## ChibreneyDragon

Maddybelle said:


> Found this on MoonShadowBettas.com:
> 
> Bettas4all (an international betta specific forum) have developed their own international show standard for the veiltail betta, and in shows over in the netherlands and such bettas are allowed in the shows. According to bettas4all the show standard for a veiltail betta is as follows
> • *Standard Veiltail* (VT)
> • *Dorsal* (dorsal fin)
> _The Dorsal is narrower at its base and has fewer rays than the (other fin variants.)_*(1)*_The fin should run in a sickle-shaped manner and not exceed over ¾ of the body length of the fish. It should not (run out in individual rays.) _*(2)*_Overlapping of the Dorsal over the fish body is not desired._
> • *Caudal* (caudal fin)
> _The caudal fin should be full with a broad base, but (long stretched.) _*(3)*_It should be at least the same length as the body of the fish. The rays come out of the tail root steeply rising in the upper part of the fin and then after reaching its highest point at 20% of the entire fin length, drop down in an even (elbow.)_*(4)*
> _Within the lower part of the fin the rays come out almost straight
> from the tail root with an (easy upward arranged)_*(5)*_curvature and then
> drop down parallel to the other fin rays. Thus results in a light sickle-shaped (long stretched optics.) _*(6)*_ The Caudal must be able to be
> carried easily by the fish in its entire length. The ends of the rays
> should not have any spikes or indentations. An (easily corrugated)_*(7)*_
> fin border is permitted. The fin volume is to be stretched completely
> (not too many rays and/or too much skin between the rays, no
> pleating) when the fish flairs._
> • *Anal* (anal fin)
> _The anal fin should (set up at the highest point of the body)_*(8)*_ and
> be at least as long as the body and run out in its deepest end
> (pointedly. The form is to resemble a parallelogram.)_*(9)*
> • *Ventrals* (ventral fins)
> _The ventral fins are to be the same length as one another and should look like a curved knife blade. They should BE at least 1/3 as long as the
> body._


Wished I lived in the Netherlands! Not only could I stalk John Green on his vacations, but I could enter my VT!


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## Basement Bettas

vilmarisv said:


> There's really no trends at shows. The fish will either fit a color standard or it will not.
> Color is very dificult and you have to be very selective. Butterflies have to be 50/50, Solids must be clean, multis need 3+ colors, etc.
> The IBC handbook, which you can only get if you're a member, will explain all of this.


Ditto. Believe it or not.. perfecting a steel or red is not easy. And black.. pfffffffffft. Even a great patterned fish has rules.. like the 50/50 color split on the BF's. Even have to have the 50/50 marble pattern in the fins to be a great marble. 

The trend is there is MORE competition and you have to have REALLY good fish. But that is what showing is about...


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## Basement Bettas

homegrown terror said:


> wasn't it just earlier this year that rosetails and feathertails were considered a cull-able flaw? now, it seems like the more branching you can put out the better, without the little guys ripping their fins into confetti, of course!


Nope.. you listen to the judging and they pull excessive branching as being RT. NOT a desired trait at all in a good show fish. Is it in the breeding... yes. But they don't make good show fish unless you have no competition.


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## Basement Bettas

Maddybelle said:


> *Black orchid:* A black betta with blue, green, or turquoise iridescence.


There is no place for orchid as far as coloration. This would be a faulted black.


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## Basement Bettas

Mo said:


> A qoute from Karen Mac Auley. Last years grand champion of the IBC with over 10 awards in 3-4 years for BOS fish
> "Most of my fish are extreme OHM.....All of my BOS fish are OHM......"
> 
> Heavily branched fish seem to be preferred by judges now. But some people still don't advocate the breeding of this characteristic


Over half moon is VERY different than RT type branching. Her fish have good branching but they also have good fin length. When those fins open up they are fairly smooth.. They win because they have great balance and finnage. And they show better than most fish there.


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## Basement Bettas

Maddybelle said:


> I don't think EEs are showable, their huge pectorals make them look unbalanced. Personally I think that, considering how popular they're becoming, the IBC should create a new class just for them.


They can be shown.. best in variations. But show fish is all about symetry.. and those big fins mess that up.


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## Basement Bettas

MoonShadow said:


> Vts don't have a class of their own in IBC shows (though they do in international shows) but they can be shown in open classes. I personally feel that vts should have their own class, but I've been told by many IBC members (including the president of the IBC) that they'll never make it into the shows until people start breeding serious VT show lines... which is something I plan on doing.


To show, one must have a standard to be judged against. No one has come up with a standard.. and few want to breed towards it. Got to think the economics of a show. Time to judge a class... plus ribbons. And then someone to keep track of the points. Probably not going to happen for a VT as most show breeders consider them a step backward.


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## Basement Bettas

Mo said:


> Well. They all have the same chance.. No matter what thrush I think they start out with 100 points but for every flaw found a certain amount of points are deducted, the amounts depends on whether they wer minor, severe, etc.


No.. don't start out with points. you look at the class and pull the most sever faults.. then less severe.. till few are standing. Then one with least faults wins.


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## Basement Bettas

Mo said:


> Aemeki what are you talking about? Lol. All different tail types, and colors have different judging criteria already


Not really. Color is color. Red is red no mater on HM, PK or Ct. Then the tail types have their own form standard. When you get to BoS they look as see what fish is closest to the ideal for their type. It must have the closest to perfection color and form type. Siegs three time BoS pk was flawless. PERFECT color and form. IF the VT had a standard.. it would be judged against how well it met its standard compared to the other BoV's.


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## Basement Bettas

hannah16 said:


> Perhaps they could judge based on color and maybe they could set a standard about the slop of the tail?
> 
> I don't know, either way I'd love to see a VT class. My first betta was a VT so they'll always have a place in my heart.


You'd love to see one.. what are the chances you would enter one? You would have to get close to 100 VT entries to even make it worth adding them to a show. And who will be breeding them? Seriously enough to make adding the time to judge them and the cost of awarding them ribbons and the time it takes to tabulate their points worth while?


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## ChibreneyDragon

Basement Bettas said:


> You'd love to see one.. what are the chances you would enter one? You would have to get close to 100 VT entries to even make it worth adding them to a show. And who will be breeding them? Seriously enough to make adding the time to judge them and the cost of awarding them ribbons and the time it takes to tabulate their points worth while?


Dear Gods, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? We all know VT in IBC is probably something that wont occur, but they just want to fantasize and gush over the memories of their first fish.


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## Mo

Oh wow, thanks for all of this new info BB. But. Wasn't talking about color on that last one, lol. I meant just form

Also. I know you've had some of her fish, you have to admit they have a bit more branching than most


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## polukoff

MoonShadow said:


> Vts don't have a class of their own in IBC shows (though they do in international shows) but they can be shown in open classes. I personally feel that vts should have their own class, but I've been told by many IBC members (including the president of the IBC) that they'll never make it into the shows until people start breeding serious VT show lines... which is something I plan on doing.
> 
> I personally do not like the heavily branched HMs (though Karens are nice and strong and seem to hold up well) they seem to age quicker, wear down faster and are more prone to tail biting because their poor fins are so heavy!


How early are you planning on breeding veiltail? If you can get veiltail fish into the 2013 convention in June I will do the same and then we can have the class established.


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## MoonShadow

polukoff said:


> How early are you planning on breeding veiltail? If you can get veiltail fish into the 2013 convention in June I will do the same and then we can have the class established.


I'm in if you are, my 2 new pairs of VTs will be here in 2 weeks. I could probably get 2 generations by June if I condition and breed as soon as they get here!


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## hannah16

Whoot! GO VTS! You guys rock. I can't wait to see what the IBC has to say about that!


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## MoonShadow

Basement Bettas said:


> To show, one must have a standard to be judged against. No one has come up with a standard.. and few want to breed towards it. Got to think the economics of a show. Time to judge a class... plus ribbons. And then someone to keep track of the points. Probably not going to happen for a VT as most show breeders consider them a step backward.


Actually someone has come up with a standard since VTs are shown internationally, in the Netherlands, Holland, Germany, Italy etc. A VT even won BOS in a show in Holland in August out of over 200 entries.


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## MoonShadow

http://issuu.com/stefankruger/docs/bettas4allstandard2012-chapter3d?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222


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## ChibreneyDragon

polukoff said:


> How early are you planning on breeding veiltail? If you can get veiltail fish into the 2013 convention in June I will do the same and then we can have the class established.


I am glad that they have a standard for VT, because out of all the types, the VT are quite... prolific, aren't they? I've always found the VT easier to breed, the HM are finicky and the turnover for fry is poor because of the complicated genetics.

I would love to see some of yalls entries!


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## aemaki09

Looking forward to seeing spawn logs for your VT's then!  my first year showing will hopefully be next year and will love to hear about how your VT's do!


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## Basement Bettas

hannah16 said:


> Whoot! GO VTS! You guys rock. I can't wait to see what the IBC has to say about that!


Same thing it always says.. they will not create classes and they will not take the time to create a standard. not enough people will breed and enter to make it worth while. And the show where the VT won was not an international IBC sanctioned show. anybody can have a fish show and pick a colorful betta as BoS. That award means nothing.. they got not points towards any year end championship in that area. 

Please keep this section to show bettas and quit trying to force VT's. Not going to happen and you have the entire rest of the forum to complain about no classes for VT's.


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## Basement Bettas

ChibreneyDragon said:


> Dear Gods, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? We all know VT in IBC is probably something that wont occur, but they just want to fantasize and gush over the memories of their first fish.


Then please do it in another area of the forum. Be nice if people would take this section serious about the show fish instead of using it as a soap box for shoving the VT where it is not wanted. I come here to see people discussing show fish.. not wanting their pet fish ohh and ahhhed over or hearing trash talk about how poor the quality of life is for my HM's. You want to spout that crap you have a bunch of other areas in this forum. You don't like show fish or the IBC's way of doing things then do not come here and offer your two cents worth. It will not be well received. Or better yet.. join the IBC and be someone that works for change. Breed quality solid red and irid VT's and you may get taken seriously. Other wise leave the show breeders alone.


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## hannah16

Basement Bettas said:


> Then please do it in another area of the forum. Be nice if people would take this section serious about the show fish instead of using it as a soap box for shoving the VT where it is not wanted. I come here to see people discussing show fish.. not wanting their pet fish ohh and ahhhed over or hearing trash talk about how poor the quality of life is for my HM's. You want to spout that crap you have a bunch of other areas in this forum. You don't like show fish or the IBC's way of doing things then do not come here and offer your two cents worth. It will not be well received. Or better yet.. join the IBC and be someone that works for change. Breed quality solid red and irid VT's and you may get taken seriously. Other wise leave the show breeders alone.


Whoa, Whoa... Please calm down and realize that there is group of people that WANT The VT to be showable. You should at the very least respect that and give your opinions in a respectful manner. There is no need to be so aggressive about it. Perhaps it bothers you that we like VT's but that doesn't mean you have the right to degrade our love for the veils.

I think it should go without saying; be kind when giving advice and criticism


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## Basement Bettas

hannah16 said:


> Whoa, Whoa... Please calm down and realize that there is group of people that WANT The VT to be showable. You should at the very least respect that and give your opinions in a respectful manner. There is no need to be so aggressive about it. Perhaps it bothers you that we like VT's but that doesn't mean you have the right to degrade our love for the veils.
> 
> I think it should go without saying; be kind when giving advice and criticism


That is all well and good and we have heard it for years. please discuss somewhere besides here. VT's are not showable so do not belong here.

Kind.. guess trashing the HM's and saying they have a poor quality of life is nice. I'll do not take trashing my name or my hobby kindly. Do it elsewhere.


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## hannah16

Maddybelle said:


> So, I'm just curious: what are the hot trends lately in show bettas? Superblack, marble/fancy, butterfly? What seems to be the most desired/sought after color/pattern in the show world? The most uncommon?


This thread was posted by Maddybelle, VTs were brought up on this thread, it is not a sticky in the Show Bettas section. If you do not like VTs being brought up perhaps you should unsubscribe since it upsets you so much??



Basement Bettas said:


> That is all well and good and we have heard it for years. please discuss somewhere besides here. VT's are not showable so do not belong here.
> 
> Kind.. guess trashing the HM's and saying they have a poor quality of life is nice. I'll do not take trashing my name or my hobby kindly. Do it elsewhere.


Also, I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't feel HMs have a poor quality of life, I personally have liked your bettas and thought of purchasing from you before, but you are a very aggressive person where it is not needed. From what I've read, no one has trashed your hobby?? Again, I didn't read the entire thread. 

Lastly, again, if you do not like VTs being mentioned in this thread, perhaps you should unsubscribe from it..

In no way were my comments meant to be rude, I just feel you aren't being forum friendly.


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## dramaqueen

Please calm down guys and get back on topic.


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## Basement Bettas

hannah16 said:


> This thread was posted by Maddybelle, VTs were brought up on this thread, it is not a sticky in the Show Bettas section. If you do not like VTs being brought up perhaps you should unsubscribe since it upsets you so much??
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't feel HMs have a poor quality of life, I personally have liked your bettas and thought of purchasing from you before, but you are a very aggressive person where it is not needed. From what I've read, no one has trashed your hobby?? Again, I didn't read the entire thread.
> 
> Lastly, again, if you do not like VTs being mentioned in this thread, perhaps you should unsubscribe from it..
> 
> In no way were my comments meant to be rude, I just feel you aren't being forum friendly.


Maybe you should read the entire thread. I am blunt and to the point. I don't feel anyone is rude. They have their opinion and I have mine. Anyone that does not like show fish.. and that does not include VT's.. needs to not comment and add the anti show betta comments in this part of the forum.

Discussing VT and their not being accepted at a show can be done in areas that are for the VT's or other pet type bettas. How in the world can anyone really interested in showing fish get any good information if all they read here is people trashing the show fish? This is to be an educational area for those that ARE interested in this small part of the hobby. PLEASE allow it to be just that and take all the pet shop evaluations and anti show fish posts and how great art though VT's to the other areas of the forum. Please respect what WE do and stop making us defend it. Especially in the ONE area designed to let us share and communicate.


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## Reefing Madness

OK guys! DQ has asked once for it to settle down. This is a Forum with many opinions, if you can't have a duscussion with someone about their opinion or don't like what they have to say, please refrain from Posting. Back on TOPIC.


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## ChibreneyDragon

Reefing Madness said:


> OK guys! DQ has asked once for it to settle down. This is a Forum with many opinions, if you can't have a duscussion with someone about their opinion or don't like what they have to say, please refrain from Posting. Back on TOPIC.


Its kinda hard to get back on topic after that. 

Anyways, How many fish enthusiast do you think it takes to endorse a new tail type? I remember when the HM started becoming more popular and eventually earned its own class.


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## hannah16

ChibreneyDragon said:


> Anyways, How many fish enthusiast do you think it takes to endorse a new tail type? I remember when the HM started becoming more popular and eventually earned its own class.


Probably a good 200 +


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## ChibreneyDragon

I would love to see a DTCT class. The work that goes into achieving the branching coupled with the perfect DT spread. Although I see a lot more EE enthusiasts.


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## hannah16

ChibreneyDragon said:


> I would love to see a DTCT class. The work that goes into achieving the branching coupled with the perfect DT spread. Although I see a lot more EE enthusiasts.


Oh! Me! Me! I love EE's !! I think they're so beautiful. I doubt there will ever be a class for them if there already isn't one.


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## ChibreneyDragon

hannah16 said:


> Oh! Me! Me! I love EE's !! I think they're so beautiful. I doubt there will ever be a class for them if there already isn't one.


Unless there is something horribly unhealthy about EE, they will probably get their own class. HM didnt really get their own class until 2003? Some time around that.

Everything starts somewhere, especially since breeders are CONSTANTLY tweaking genetics trying to get their own look or color!


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## hannah16

ChibreneyDragon said:


> Unless there is something horribly unhealthy about EE, they will probably get their own class. HM didnt really get their own class until 2003? Some time around that.
> 
> Everything starts somewhere, especially since breeders are CONSTANTLY tweaking genetics trying to get their own look or color!


I don't believe there is anything unhealthy about them. But from what I've been told EEs enlarged fins are a major flaw. But if enough people want them in the ring, they probably will do it.


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## ChoclateBetta

Are there shows for wild type?


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## ChibreneyDragon

ChoclateBetta said:


> Are there shows for wild type?


? Like, color? Or Form? You could probably look up the IBC class standings. I've seen a few beautiful roundtails.


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## Maddybelle

I believe that the IBC already has a class for wild types. 

I started this thread to discuss what the current breeding/showing tends, not to hear everyone picking on each other. I think that all this started as a simple misunderstanding of tone, and quickly got out of control. I personally believe that the IBC should take the available VT standard from the European club (the one I posted, from a club completely separate from the IBC) and tweak it, making a class for veiltails in IBC sanctioned shows. A good veil is a beautiful fish.

Basement Bettas, you have beautiful fish. No one was attacking you or the hobby, please don't attack them. 

IMO, I like fish with a bit extra branching, as long as their fins aren't messy. My OHM, who has a bit of rosetail, has no problem swimming, and had absolutely no trouble breeding.

My current favorite colors are metalic green, royal blue, and copper, and good lemon yellows. I'm also getting in to marbles and butterflies. I have a steel marble HMDT that I may breed.


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## ChibreneyDragon

Maddybelle said:


> I believe that the IBC already has a class for wild types.
> 
> I started this thread to discuss what the current breeding/showing tends, not to hear everyone picking on each other. I think that all this started as a simple misunderstanding of tone, and quickly got out of control. I personally believe that the IBC should take the available VT standard from the European club (the one I posted, from a club completely separate from the IBC) and tweak it, making a class for veiltails in IBC sanctioned shows. A good veil is a beautiful fish.
> 
> Basement Bettas, you have beautiful fish. No one was attacking you or the hobby, please don't attack them.
> 
> IMO, I like fish with a bit extra branching, as long as their fins aren't messy. My OHM, who has a bit of rosetail, has no problem swimming, and had absolutely no trouble breeding.
> 
> My current favorite colors are metalic green, royal blue, and copper, and good lemon yellows. I'm also getting in to marbles and butterflies. I have a steel marble HMDT that I may breed.


What do you think of the Dragonscale? I've been kind getting into the full masking and beautiful metallic sheen on these fish. I like it in the plakats, but LOVE it on the HMs.


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## ChoclateBetta

I mean wild types like Imbellis.


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## ChibreneyDragon

ChoclateBetta said:


> I mean wild types like Imbellis.


Oh, I actually dont know. I thought it was mostly Betta Splendens... But I wouldnt be surprised if they DID. Although it mostly just says the form and color...not species.


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## babystarz

Yes, there are IBC standards for wild types and they can be shown. I am not an IBC member so I couldn't tell you what they are. I know Pitgurl breeds her wilds to standard. Maybe she can shed more light on this topic.


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## Hallyx

I love this thread. So many devoutly-held opinions strongly stated. Very refreshing. Reminds me of the old days on usenet. ;-}

As for that BOS VT on page 6, he reminds me of my VT when he was still tail-biting. After he stopped, his tail grew into a beautiful ellipsoid (extended oval) shape that was quite lovely. Sort of like this, but cleaner and sharper-edged:


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## ChoclateBetta

Thats a Chocolate!


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## Hallyx

Does anyone besides me think that Dragonscales look kind of, errr...diseased? How are they classed and scored, anyway?


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## Maddybelle

I believe dragons are still classified as light bicolors.


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## ChibreneyDragon

Hallyx said:


> I love this thread. So many devoutly-held opinions strongly stated. Very refreshing. Reminds me of the old days on usenet. ;-}
> 
> As for that BOS VT on page 6, he reminds me of my VT when he was still tail-biting. After he stopped, his tail grew into a beautiful ellipsoid (extended oval) shape that was quite lovely. Sort of like this, but cleaner and sharper-edged:


I am seriously in love with those colors. You have no idea.


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