# Newbie needs help



## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

I'm new to aquariums, but have been doing a lot of reading as I've gotten started. I've read that anubia, java fern, and java moss were all low maintenance. I seen to be having some problems with all of them though. The rhizome on some of the anubia have been getting some fuzz, for lack of a better word, and stems from this areas are falling off. There was also some on a root that I scrapped off and half the root went with it. My java fern has black on some leaves, and my moss sends to be dying. Don't quite understand what I'm doing wrong. 

The anubia are tired to driftwood. The ferns are just drifting in the tank for now. The moss is tied to a divider. Tank is 8.5 gallons divided and isn't cycled yet. Filtered and heated to 80. Dosing flourish excel every other day. 

I didn't realize how difficult this was going to be. Between having trouble with the plants, and having an excessive tail biter, setting up a tank has been really stressful. Help please


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## Tony2632 (Aug 30, 2013)

Java moss don't like warm water, I keep my temp around 75 and my moss pretty much took over my tank. Java fern with black spots sounds like u have a low nitrate problem. i keep my nitrate around 5ppm in planted tanks. I'll post a link to help you with your anubias.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161747


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## Islandgaliam (Jan 27, 2014)

Tony2632 said:


> Java moss don't like warm water, I keep my temp around 75 and my moss pretty much took over my tank. Java fern with black spots sounds like u have a low nitrate problem. i keep my nitrate around 5ppm in planted tanks. I'll post a link to help you with your anubias.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161747


oooh..nitrates @ 5ppm? maybe that's my problem. Is 5ppm safe for bettas and nerites??? mine is 0. How do I get nitrate up?


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

Tony2632 said:


> Java moss don't like warm water, I keep my temp around 75 and my moss pretty much took over my tank. Java fern with black spots sounds like u have a low nitrate problem. i keep my nitrate around 5ppm in planted tanks. I'll post a link to help you with your anubias.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161747


I'm doing a bucket cycle that is just about ready, so nitrates shouldn't be a problem soon. That sucks about the moss and lower temps. I didn't realize that. Any suggestions on what I can use to cover the divider that is low maintenance and better in higher temps?


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## Islandgaliam (Jan 27, 2014)

crzycrkr said:


> I'm doing a bucket cycle that is just about ready, so nitrates shouldn't be a problem soon. That sucks about the moss and lower temps. I didn't realize that. Any suggestions on what I can use to cover the divider that is low maintenance and better in higher temps?


I think other types of mosses can do higher heat. I need to now figure out what to do about the nitrates...don't want to lose another plant. I was on a different forum inquiring about gh 'cuz I can't figure out what I am doing wrong....


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

Now I'm more confused. Everything I read says java moss does better in warm water and actually grows faster


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## Islandgaliam (Jan 27, 2014)

I had a response to a post on a different forum because I get so confused it's crazy. 

She said that there are so many variables to growing aquatic plants due to water conditions, how it was grown. lighting, ferts, etc. and what may work well in one tank may not necessarily work well in another. I am still working on getting it, but since she said that, I don't stress myself out anymore. I am trying to get what I have going good now...then I will try just one plant at a time to see how I do with it. I am now off to a lfs to see if he has any KNO3 to see if that helps at all...I know I can grow string algae very well!!!!!


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

I went with those three because from my reading it seemed they were fool proof. Now I'm not so site, lol. I had read that the problem with the anubia could be from tying it down too tightly


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I grow great gobs of Java moss in an 80.2 degree tank. And I mean great gobs.  Enough that I'm going to gift a friend with half a great gob in August.

Java Moss can take temperatures from the mid 60s to the mid 80s so it's most likely not the temperatures. The trick to attaching moss to a divider is to only attach one thin layer. If you do more than that the moss underneath dies out. I know: I killed a lot of moss before I got the hang of attaching it to mesh.

Must respectfully disagree, but black spots are not caused by Nitrates; I've had it with high Nitrates and low. Black spots are the bane of Java Fern. Google "Black spots on Java Fern" and you get a ton of hits. They're actually most often caused by a nutrient deficiency. Do you dose fertilizers as well as Excel? If not, that's your problem. Excel is not a fertilizer; it's a carbon source. Get some Seachem Flourish Comprehensive if you don't have it. It's great for plants not buried in the substrate.

Anubias are sometimes grown emersed and melt before restablishing themselves. I don't know what the white fuzzy stuff is, though. Wish I could help there but I don't feel comfortable giving advice since I've never had it.

PS: I actually started half-dosing Excel because I was having plant melt within a week from plants that had been established for months. When I looked it up online, overdosing Excel was cited as a possible cause. Once I started half-dosing, the melting stopped.


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I grow great gobs of Java moss in an 80.2 degree tank. And I mean great gobs.  Enough that I'm going to gift a friend with half a great gob in August.
> 
> Java Moss can take temperatures from the mid 60s to the mid 80s so it's most likely not the temperatures. The trick to attaching moss to a divider is to only attach one thin layer. If you do more than that the moss underneath dies out. I know: I killed a lot of moss before I got the hang of attaching it to mesh.
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks. I am completely new to this, which is why it is driving me so insane. Especially the betta that was perfectly happy in a little 3/4 gallon bowl that now destroys his fins whether he's in the divided 8.5 or the little bowl. 

I will pick up flourish. I had no idea and was less to believe excel was what I needed. I do .8 ml every other day in an 8.5 gallon. Do you think that is too much?

When you say the anubia melt before reestablishing, can you elaborate in idiot terms? And how is that usually handled? Left alone? Cut off bad pieces? 

Thank you


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## CrazedHoosier (Mar 18, 2014)

Melting is basically a plants way of evolving. It usually happens when you introduce it into the tank and the leaves become sort of translucent and get kind of gooey. Soon the plant will deteriorate, but then will come back stronger than before! This is at least how I understood it (Never had it happen before). I'm pretty sure you take the old leaves off.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I was an English/History major so bear with me. 

1 ml for 10 gallons; so I would dose a little less than .5 ml and see if that helps. The fertilizer is more important. Flourish is 5 ml for 60 gallons so I would dose Flourish at .5 ml three times per week and the Excel three.

If things go well and you fall in love with planted tanks, I would add Trace Elements, Iron and Potassium. If you get rooted plants like Swords, you need root tabs cause they are root feeders as opposed to the moss, Anubias and Java Fern which are feeding from the water column and why you need liquid fertilizer.

And sorry I didn't explain "melting." Sometimes I forget to explain terminology. But CrazedHoosier is correct. Some plant species are more prone to melting than others (Crypts and Vallisnaria [spel?]). And plants that have been grown emersed which is out of water or above water are prone to melting when submerged in an aquarium. They usually recover.

Please ask any questions. Several of us think we almost have fish as an excuse to feed our planted tank addiction. We love it when someone joins our ranks. ;-)


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I was an English/History major so bear with me.
> 
> 1 ml for 10 gallons; so I would dose a little less than .5 ml and see if that helps. The fertilizer is more important. Flourish is 5 ml for 60 gallons so I would dose Flourish at .5 ml three times per week and the Excel three.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the help. I don't see myself going into rooted plants any time soon. It's a small tank and there isn't another on the horizon. But I do like the real plants better than the silk, and would like to make the tank a good home for the two bettas. I went with these three based on reading here that they were pretty much the most low maintenance. I'll pick up the fertilizer this week and hopefully that will help some things out. I would especially really like to see the moss fill out the divider like I had planned. 

Thanks for so the help. There's so much to learn, and I have so little free time. This tank was supposed to be a relatively simple hobby for myself and my girlfriend after she had to put down her dog. It's proven to be quite challenging between the plant issues and a difficult betta. Especially when you get attached to the bettas when you weren't expecting to. On the positive side, I finished my first bucket cycle today and transferred the media and substrate into the tank


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## Islandgaliam (Jan 27, 2014)

And it does get easier! Whoever would thought a lil fish could have so much character..and not only do the plants help make a happy healthy home for them, but you never have to remember to water them


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

Islandgaliam said:


> And it does get easier! Whoever would thought a lil fish could have so much character..and not only do the plants help make a happy healthy home for them, but you never have to remember to water them


I hope he realizes that soon and stops eating himself and thrashing around. He seemed to like his little bowl with one floating anubias more


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## Tony2632 (Aug 30, 2013)

Guess i was wrong then. I never had dying plants, because I all ways followed the rules of ferts in my tank. It is true every planted tank is different. My tank for example is very heavy on plants with high light and pressurized CO2. My ferts goal is macro nutrients which is nitrogen at 10.0ppm, phosphorus at 2.5ppm, and potassium at 20ppm. Micro nutrients goal is iron at 1.00ppm and trance elements every other day. My DIY root tabs also helped my heavy root feeders.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Tony2632 said:


> Guess i was wrong then. I never had dying plants, because I all ways followed the rules of ferts in my tank. It is true every planted tank is different. My tank for example is very heavy on plants with high light and pressurized CO2. My ferts goal is macro nutrients which is nitrogen at 10.0ppm, phosphorus at 2.5ppm, and potassium at 20ppm. Micro nutrients goal is iron at 1.00ppm and trance elements every other day. My DIY root tabs also helped my heavy root feeders.


Most of the people asking questions have low tech/maintenance tanks while you have high tech; a whole different world. 

Most low tech/beginner plants like Anubias, Java Fern, Moss, Swords, etc., do very well on a good fertilizer like Seachem Flourish and root tabs alone. The pressurized C02, Excel, macro and micro nutrients come in when you have more high tech plants or are more into planted tanks than most on this forum.

PS: I dose Iron, Potassium and Trace Elements, too. And have Iron root tabs. I have a low-tech tank with mostly beginner plants.


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I was an English/History major so bear with me.
> 
> 1 ml for 10 gallons; so I would dose a little less than .5 ml and see if that helps. The fertilizer is more important. Flourish is 5 ml for 60 gallons so I would dose Flourish at .5 ml three times per week and the Excel three.
> 
> ...


Stupid question. Should I stagger the flourish and the excel or do it the same day? Or does it not matter?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I stagger. Seachem dose chart suggests Excel every day and Flourish Comprehensive twice a week. Like I said before, for my tank that was too much Excel (I have low-tech plants like you) so I started half-dosing Excel three times a week and the Flourish twice. 

Tanks are individual so I'd stay with your current Excel schedule and dose. If plants melt, lower Excel to half-dose. I think once you start using fertilizer you'll see a huge difference.


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

I tried to pick it up today, but I'm having trouble finding it locally. I have one more store to try this weekend


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

Found the flourish and have started dosing. Two more questions now. 

One, since I've moved my cycled media over and started using the excel, my pH has dropped. It's at 6.8, which from what I've read is fine, but before it was 7.4 give or take. I keep forgetting to test the tap water, so I'll do it today. Question is, could the excel or new cycle be doing it, and if it dips too low how do I take care of it? I had read something about baking soda

Two, when do I change my water with a cycled tank? The ammonia never seemed to go up much before the cycle and I would change 50-70% weekly. How high should I let nitrates go before changing? Or should I try to keep it in a certain level with smaller changes? There is lots of info on cycling, but didn't seem to be as much on maintaining after cycling. Bear in mind that I do have a bad tail bitter, so I know water quality is important.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't mess with the pH and an answer on the Seachem Forum indicated Excel does not alter pH.

I do 20% water changes once a week on my cycled tank unless I see Ammonia above 0. Nitrates I try to keep around 10.


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## crzycrkr (May 27, 2014)

Okay, good to know. I've read cycling could cause fluctuations. I'm holding steady at 6.8 even though the tap is around 7.4. 

Problem I end up having is I can not tell the difference in color between 0 and .25 on the test kit. But as long as my cycle is good and nitrates are showing I just assume 0. So if I do a 25% change once a week I should be fine


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