# Monster Giant Spawn?!



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

So no eggs yet, but my giant and 1/2 giant female have been at it since this morning, occasionally wrapping. When I left for work they were constantly wrapping, trying to get it right. They seem to get the position right sometimes so she is stunned, but no eggs. They are trying almost continuously. Sometimes the male gets frustrated and nips the female and she hides.

Here is the pair -


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I had been wondering who you were breeding since your giant girl was having issues. if you have some starting to hatch by the time I get out of class tomorrow I think I should come over since you were busy taking a nap today  lol


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

How is everything going now? It will take a few tries before they get it right. lol


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

They've been at it for hours, still no eggs. They're each about 4 months old and never been spawned.

Sorry Tisia I need my naps ;] And yeah you're welcome to come over if somethings going on.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

lol, I replied like 5 minutes after you texted though


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Are you sure you haven't seen any eggs?


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

OOOO  Im excited to watch your spawn logs, their all so darn GORGOUS


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

are you using rock in your breeding tank????


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> are you using rock in your breeding tank????


 
I dont think she is. I think thats a picture of the male in his tank


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

ok....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

GUYS EGGS OMG THI IS THE COOLEST THING EVER SO EXCITED AHHHHH havent even read your comments yet taking a vid hang on XD SO HAPPY


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> GUYS EGGS OMG THI IS THE COOLEST THING EVER SO EXCITED AHHHHH havent even read your comments yet taking a vid hang on XD SO HAPPY


 

Haha YAY!!! Im excited to see the Vid  I bet your like going crazy over there watching and waiting ;P


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah that was in his temp tank upon arrival. No rocks! I will try to get a video of this! It's amazing to see. They have a little trouble wrapping because he's so much bigger, but they are working hard together and picking up eggs together.

The male has been very gentle with her, only a few nips at her anal fin and she took a bite outta him too. After a few hours they started embracing and now we have eggs! I'm a happy girl!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

They were looking pretty tired before I left for work earlier so I left a few bloodworms under the nest for them, they're all gone now, maybe that helped perk them up. This pair is too funny. They're still flaring at each other until the second before they embrace. Silly


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

In a day or two u will have some fry....
Hope u age your water with some live plants in it...
Planning ahead goes a long way....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah I have had this tank set up for over a month with live plants in it, and two others with moss getting set up tomorrow so by the time I need to split the spawn they'll be good too.

Don't worry, I did my research!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Wow a month ahead of time...
For me I can't wait that long....
Two week max...
Since Im using water from my outdoor bucket with plant...
I just use a screen net n tie it to a bottle n collect my water from there...
Wish you the best of luck....
Just wondering...
What size of a tank your using....
Cause I'm going to try breeding my next giant pair in a 20 long....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I spawned them in a regular rectangular 10 gallon tank filled about 3/5ths of the way and I have two other 10 gallon tanks for growout/separation if need be.

I think I am going to pull the female even though she has more eggs. She's stopped going to the nest and the male is chasing her away. I'll give it a few more hours.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Kk...
Will if the male is chasing her away...
Your should remove the female....
Better be safe then sorry....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah he's only paying attention to the nest and she's not coming out anymore. She's got a good hiding spot, I can't find her. Neither can he. I'm ready with my net and a tank for her.


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> Yeah he's only paying attention to the nest and she's not coming out anymore. She's got a good hiding spot, I can't find her. Neither can he. I'm ready with my net and a tank for her.


 Lol i can just pictue you sitting there, net in hand over the tank, just waiting for her to make a move so you can spot her


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

That's exactly what happened... 

Videos coming. I can only see like 12 eggs in the nest. I only saw her release eggs once, a clutch of about 10 I'm guessing. I'm hoping there's more than that in there! Or maybe a small first spawn would be nice...! It is veryyy difficult to see the eggs as I chose an upside-down petco lid as the place for him to nest. He started building there immediately. I guess I'll just wait for the hangers...

So far the male is being a vigilant father. I added a mystery snail to help clean up, and siphoned out the waste and some dead plant matter. Dad didn't seem to mind! I'm going to Seattle after they hatch and are free swimming for a few days - come on little girls and guys!

Can you see any eggs in these photos? I can see some with my naked eye but the camera doesn't seem to pick them up, especially since my kitchen is green/white with yellow light.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

One thing that I notice with my giant babies...
When your feeding them...
They will be eating n pooping at the same time...
Seem like it goes one end and come out at the other end...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oooo so pretty  a very nice pair! They've had king bettas in petsmart a few times... But nothing on the side of females of course. When I've moved elsewhere, have more space and time I want to find a good giant (or like you, a giant and a half giant) pair and breed them!

Good luck!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Maybe it would help if you shine a flashlight up into the nest to see if there's more eggs.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I saw dad eat an egg and I don't see them in the nest anymore. I am concerned that he ate them today, I've left him alone. It's possible they weren't fertilized correctly...Hopefully there are still some.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Sign of a young male or a frighten male....
Best way to go in breeding...
Leave the female in a day or two...
If they breed they breed...
If not take the female out n feed them for a few day n repeat the progress over again...
If they do....
Take the female out...
Leave the male alone for a 3 day...
Go back n check on the tank...
If u have free swimming fry...
Take out the male 
If not u still take out the male and clean out the tank and start all over again...
Left the female rest for a month n try agian....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Are you sure he ate it? Maybe he was spitting it back into the nest. I hope some survived.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I left the female in for two days and left the tank alone. He's young, so maybe that's it. And no I'm not sure I saw him eat them, I just saw him pick one up and swim off where he'd normally been putting them back in the nest. I was also able to see the eggs hanging last night and now I can't see them. His nest looks a little smaller and he seems depressed, if that makes sense. Like he was sitting on the bottom under the nest instead of swimming under it.

I'm getting a new full giant female on Wednesday, and have other females and males I've been conditioning, so if he did eat them I can try another pair soon and the giants next weekend or something. I was initially pretty sad but since they had such a hard time spawning I thought maybe they weren't fertilized properly. He'd been a great dad up until today so I'm thinking there was something wrong with the eggs. He was not interested in food either.

I'll know by tomorrow afternoon whether or not there are any eggs.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well good luck  Second time around for males seems to be easier - they catch on! The first time does not always work out.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Will just give it another day...
If u see no fry just remove the male....
Let him rest for a month n breed him agian....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

No, the nest had come apart and the male was sitting on the floor. I sucked up the 8 or so eggs that were left and will attempt to artificially hatch them.

At least I know my spawn tank set up works...I'm getting another pair Wednesday as well as another giant female. The female who spawned is perky and happy today.

EDIT: I removed some of the live plants and behind them found like 25 little teeny tiny snails...no idea how they got here, and TONS of snail poop. Maybe he ate them due to the water condition. I've been monitoring it and sucking up dead plant matter and such..Who knows. No reason to speculate I guess. I'm pretty bummed..will just have to try, try again.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Aww, I'm sorry! I hope the ones you sucked up will hatch. Yeah, maybe things didn't work out because they were an inexperienced pair. He'll do better next time.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Cool...
Will let the fish rest for a week or so...
Before u let them breed....
Yeah snail egg like to hitch hike on life plant...
I think that's how they got in there....
I don't mind them in the tank...
They eat the left over food...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I purposely got 'pest snails' just to clean up. But if you want clean up duty use Nerites or mystery snails - apparently are better than the other snails... I've just got my babies divided (small and big) in white tubs so I see ALL debris :lol: hate the baster lol


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah I got a giant pipette...used it so much my hands were shaking the other night, need to get a baster as well for less specific clean up. 

The good news is my giant female is recovering from her swim bladder issues, I think it was damaged in shipping. I feel a little better now after water changes. Even if I lose this spawn, I got to see how it's done in person, know my set up and method works, at least with this male. Trying to be positive.

How old are you fry Sena?


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Yeah! Even if this spawn didn't work--You got one of the best practice runs you could hope for! No one was seriously injured!!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks for the boost Purplemuffin...No one was injured, the female I used specifically is the alpha of the tank and can handle it. She is quite sassy, it was her first time too.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Almost 4 weeks  half are big, half are small so I had to separate them. One is getting super huge super fast, which I am wondering if she/he got Madame's length :lol: She probably was the first to hatch (day after the eggs were laid)

I have heard of the artificial hatching... basically the eggs can survive not in the nest - even the fry can. Just keep it humid on the surface. It may or may not work out... But hey, second time around may be easier


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

the main issue people seem to face with artificial hatching is fungus issues(the male betta can clean the eggs and what not to keep them fungus free), but short of that happening as long as they're still warm and they were properly fertilized they might hatch.

good luck, and if not you can always try again.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That is true. Sometimes males clean with their mouths, or even move the nest and get rid of any bad eggs  but you know, good luck anyways!!!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Right, that's why I'm hoping the bubbler underneath will move them around enough to keep fungus off them..

Getting 3 more giants this Wednesday, 2 females and 1 awesome yellow/black/white male. So then I'll have 3 females and 3 giant males to pick and choose from. One female is still having swim bladder problems..hoping she'll recover.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I hope she recovers too


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Thank you for the well wishes and interest but my remaining eggs fungus'd. Good news is daddy is back to his normal self although rejecting food still, and happily exploring his new 10 gallon tank. (He'd been in a 5 gal for conditioning.) 

In the way of giants I am getting two females and a male Wednesday, all hmpk marbles. I will be try, trying again!

Other good news: Came home to some new platys!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Failure is only a postponed success. Always try and try again.

Good luck on future breeding..... congrats on your new collection.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks Indjo, if I have a successful spawn I will be posting a log. I'm hoping at some point on this forum there will be a giants sticky.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Lol 
Like how they need to feed there fry like every three hours...
Cause they alway look hungry....
How fast they grow....
Plus how they need to change the water every other day....
My fry only 4 weeks old...
they're starting to stair each other down n flaring at each other....


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Better luck next time Green Tea *hugs*
Gongrats on the platys


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

My male ate the 1st spawn as well. sadly, in the 2nd attempt at spawning, the female mortally wounded him 

how big are giant and half giant females??


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think half giants can be between 3-5 inches? And giants I think 5-7 inches, or so.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

There is one breeding site listing "true" giants at 7", but I have never seen, read about, or heard of a betta that size. A giant is anything over 3 inches, ideally at least 3.5. The females are about 3". What's more telling than their length is their weight and width though, they dwarf their regular sized companions with their body alone.

My half giant female is 2 or 3x bigger than my regular females, even the beefy ones, she is about 2.1 inches long but much wider, thicker and heavier than the others.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Madame was about the same. a beefy little kook. :lol:


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

There is one breeding site listing "true" giants at 7", but I have never seen, read about, or heard of a betta that size. A giant is anything over 3 inches, ideally at least 3.5. The females are about 3". What's more telling than their length is their weight and width though, they dwarf their regular sized companions with their body alone.

My half giant female is 2 or 3x bigger than my regular females, even the beefy ones, she is about 2.1 inches long but much wider, thicker and heavier than the others.


Also - The new giant females and giant male have arrived healthy and vigorous. After a snack I'll introduce the pair. The two new females are gorgeous! The male is too but since the females were surprises I was wondering what I was going to get. One female is almost all white with a few royal blue dots, and one is white with heavy evergreen marbling and a green "black lace" tail.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh very pretty!! And at least they came healthy!


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

the 7inch giants are what they were originally bred to be.

Much like how the original mustardgas was outcrossed so much it doesn't exist anymore(as well as non-MG's being called MG's),larger giants were bred to smaller and smaller ones.

a half-giant is 3 to 3.5 inches. but most just call these giants now because the larger specimens are no longer readily around for comparison.

I think it would nice to seesome breederworking to bringback the HUGE giants.

if you want to see some nice ones look here: http://www.sirinutbetta.com/stockshopgiant.html at the bottom are some comparison pics of a normal male to their giant males.

ETA:

Also glad to hear you fish came healthy  the girls sound lovely.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Could you show me some examples in photos/documentation of the 7" giants? And thanks I'm glad they're all healthy too!


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## MaggieLynn (Jun 24, 2011)

What do you plan to do with the fry once they mature, would you be selling the rest or what? I really would like to breed, Im saving for an aquabid pair, I just dont have the room at the moment for much more fish so Im just curious to what you would do with the fry


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I'd be selling here first as there has been a great amount of interest, and then onto AB and two local fish stores who are also interested.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm still looking for photos. I saw one mention of a person who has a friend with a 6inch betta here:
http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/betta-archive/13927-giant-betta.html

a giant should reach 3 inches by 5 months of age but they keep growing after that(up to about a year old i think?). which could leave room.

back in 2007 they were up to 4-5 inches in a years growth time. given there has 4 years since then there has very likely been someone dedicated to getting that 6-7 inch betta. but the chance of finding that one person'*****(if they have any) is like finding a needle in a haystack.
(for the 2007 discussion and pics look here http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=10195)


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

No offense Bambi but that is fish*lore*. The men in Thailand who created this group of bettas never has claimed 7 inch fish, they have just been rumored. Some long-finned giant bettas might be 5 inches with their tails included, but not plakats.

Giants continue to grow until about 1.3 years of age, they continue to widen and add weight, although they stop growing in length after about a year. I've done a lot of research into these guys, and spoken with several breeders of giants in Thailand and from what is evident, no 7" betta exists or has ever been documented.

From the site you provided: 
"The largest Giant Plakat Betta we have seen has been four inches long (from mouth to tail) at one year old. The largest Giant long-tail Betta we've seen has been five inches long at one year old. However it's very rare to see sizes that large, we might find one fish that size in a very long time."

Gigantism in fish as well as other animals is a naturally occurring mutation, but giants are considered 3+ inches, the standard is not 5, and certainly not 7! Although that would be really neat.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

I didn't say it was the standard, i said up to. This is also old info.
Mandy advances can be made in 4 years, but they might also be personal goals and not published.
I'm not saying there are a bunch of 6-7 inch bettas out there. But to say one never existed or couldn't exist.
What was uncommon 4 years ago is vastly more common today, evident in the wide availablity of halfmoons and PK's now, and the many colors you find in petstores other then just the blue with redwash.
I know the current 'breed' standard is 3/3.5 inches. xD I've done alot of looking aswell. But most of the info it a few years old.
I'd like to talk to someone who has been working for year to improve and not just maintain the standard.

I'm not willing to drop 60-80 bucks on a 3 inch fish when i have 2, 2 and a half in ones i got just from breeding regular fish, or i would work on increasing the size of them myself as a fun project.♥


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Giants have inconsistent genetics and are harder to rear than regular betta fish, which is part of the reason the costs are high. I don't know that making a betta long would be improving the standard. Can you tell me what about a betta being that big would be beneficial for the fish? There are no standards concerning giant bettas. There is still a lot to be done in the way of form, finnage and color for giants. So, anyone doing any ethically raised breeding IS improving the standard. The user Indjo has lots of info on giants as well. It just seems like after more research you did some backpedaling there. I am sort of "arguing" because in my own research it was very hard to find factual information regarding giants and I want to give and spread the most accurate info on this board in case anyone is curious about them as well, it's not personal or anything.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

I've heard different things about the giants, and the "half giant" thing doesn't really add up to me. It seems like the "Kings" we get ARE giants, but they've been sent over in containers during their growth period to sell. I asked in my 1/2 giant thread if they might be hybrids because their face looks distinct from the average plakat and they tend to have breeding issues. The consensus is that they are regular splendens with good genetics/gigantism which I could see as true especially considering the main story linked above states that the first giants were indeed plakats! I really wish I had the space, and could get a young "giant". I would power feed him in a large tank with high filtration and see if there's a mutation with their growth determination, or just good genetics. It seems to me there's something *off* about them, most of them look a bit different than regular bettas. BTW I have a stud crown tail dalmation I found at Wal Mart, and a giant. I really REALLY want to breed these two but I refuse to jump into it willy nilly. Are there any US breeders raising giants (Kings) right now?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Half giant just means it has giant genetic information but did not grow to full giant size and can still have giant offspring. Like I said, King is a marketing term. The requirement for giant is that it's 3+ inches, ideally about 3.5.

Part of the reason they might look different or weird is because they are not breeding stock that get sent to the stores, they are often undesirable colors, have slightly less than perfect fins etc.

The genetics being "good" doesn't have anything to do with whether a not a fish is a giant. The fish being a giant was through years of breeding the biggest fish until consistently large offspring were attained. They grow for about a year and a half in total, your plan would probably just make him grow faster and then get fat or possibly ill - one of the problems giants have is that they cant seem to stop eating sometimes and it creates intestinal problems that can be fatal. A giant plakat should look just like a regular plakat, if it doesn't, that's a genetic issue not related to the giant genes.

Breeding a walmart crowntail with a giant is a terrible idea and here's why - 1 - You do not know the genetic backgrounds of the fish and they both could have all sorts of problems. 2 - Breeding crowntail to anything is tricky and the f1 offspring will almost always have messy and/or undesirable fins. 3 - You will not get any giant offspring in f1. Kings = giants, king is a marketing term. I am breeding giants, I do not know of other US breeders out there doing so although I imagine they must exist. I have not been able to find them.

Also breeding giants is more expensive than breeding regular fish and requires more space.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I agree about the expense and room needed for the giants... I wouldn't mind getting into it, but I do not have space for them plus I'd rather breed the smaller bettas more first - because everything I find on here points out giants are rather hard to breed and rear... I don't even think I'll get to breed giants for a good amount of years :lol:


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> Half giant just means it has giant genetic information but did not grow to full giant size and can still have giant offspring. Like I said, King is a marketing term. The requirement for giant is that it's 3+ inches, ideally about 3.5.
> 
> Part of the reason they might look different or weird is because they are not breeding stock that get sent to the stores, they are often undesirable colors, have slightly less than perfect fins etc.
> 
> ...



No no, I'll post a pic of my crown tail, it's a male. My giant is a male as well I have no intentions to mix breeds up, I have a beautiful female crown tail that is very young but right about the size for my male crown tail. I've let them sit beside each other before and he will dance and make a buble nest that day. The male king I have no plans to mess with breeding yet, I want to get at least one spawn under my belt before I attempt something like this, plus I'll need to find a big female. I am not even ready to breed at all at this point though, just my future plans once I think I have the details fully grasped and get my setup to house them and such.

I've looked my "king" over and aside from a nip out of his back fin he's one heck of a specimen and he is full half moon plakat, but all of the King plakats i see have a different look to them (maybe it's just me getting used to the plakat variation, I just got back into keeping Betta's and MAN have things changed). I really don't believe the breeders send the trash fish over like many think. I don't think they send their absolute A stock, but look at the betta farms overseas; they have SO many of these fish and they want people to keep buying from them. I think we would be shocked how many of these get culled and how much the shipping really does effect them. 

NOW with that out of the way I have a major question. From what I've heard the "giant" part of the betta is a gene, is it carried by the male and female? Is it a mutation? Or just a selected out gene? It's crazy to see splendens changing like they are, it's almost like watching the wolf become the domestic dog :shock:


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Ok. Kings are giants, and I never said your fish was trash or the ones they send were trash, but anything show quality, rare, or with amazing finnage they tend to keep for future breeding, not that there arent some beautiful bettas at pet stores, thats not what I'm saying.

If a betta is giant, it has the gene, sex is irrelevant. It's just like how people are getting bigger over time, if you have kids with a tall man, you'll have taller kids. If they have kids with a tall man, they'll have large kids as well and unless someone gets involved with a short person after that most of the family will be taller on that side. 

The first giant betta bred was probably one in which gigantism occurred as a natural mutation, but then they kept using the largest fish over and over until a consistently large spawn was achieved. You have the best outcome for giants in your spawn with both parents being giant bettas.

Giant bettas are heftier and wider in comparison to length than regular sized plakats most of the time, this might be the difference you are noticing. It can make their bodies shorter. Otherwise they should look the same. If you can use a photo to show me what seems off I might understand better. I still would not breed any betta from walmart, but that's up to you.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Don't dis on Walmart Betta......
U can turn any fish to whatever u want...
Cause breeding is like playing god...
U choose how the babies turn out like...
With enough selective breeding...
U can turn a wild to a show class....
Giant...
They eat more...
Need more space...
Cost a lot more for a pair...
Rearing a batch right now...
One thing I find out....
Giant r not as healthy as the stander pk...
They all live in the same water n eat the same thing....
No pk or super delta have drop on me...
But three giant have....


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not dissing a wal mart betta, I'm stating a fact. You cant know the genetic background of that fish and it could have hidden problems so you're taking a risk by spawning it. If you get a fish from a breeder you can ask about the background and stuff.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

True....
If u breed pet store Betta n it don't turn out right...
Just feed them to your big fish....
But if u get lucky u can start your own line of fancy...
Breed for many years....
Most of my stock r pet store Betta....
I just work with it....
Feel more accomplish when I buy a pet store Betta to produce a show class then breeding sibling from a breeder....


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> There is one breeding site listing "true" giants at 7", but I have never seen, read about, or heard of a betta that size. A giant is anything over 3 inches, ideally at least 3.5. The females are about 3". What's more telling than their length is their weight and width though, they dwarf their regular sized companions with their body alone.
> 
> My half giant female is 2 or 3x bigger than my regular females, even the beefy ones, she is about 2.1 inches long but much wider, thicker and heavier than the others.


I think my girl is about 3 inches and is also much thicker and heavier then the others. She came from walmart.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'd get my bettas (breeding stock) anywhere but this store now. The supplier shouldn't be breeding bettas :/ he/she doesn't help with the genes.

My friend when in the city, actually found a decent looking CT King. But she knew I did not want any more males :lol:


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

This thread is becoming more interesting. I didn't realize that a lot of members are interested in giants. 

Giant size is genetic. I experimented on feeding fry from the same pair but different spawn - 
1. feed all they would eat every 2-3 hours - up to 9 times a day. 
2. don't feed for growth but only to keep them alive (sort of) - all they would eat once a day.

Result:
Batch 1 grew quickly as expected.
Batch 2 grew at a slower rate but they still grew. They would show growth spurt if I feed more.

* Now that I'm satisfied with the result, I'm feeding all of them at least 3 times a day.

Giant genetic is unstable in every aspect - growth, immune system, etc. Most will stop growing after they reach 3-4 cm BO (all of my measurements are body only - not including fins). These WILL NOT produce giant offspring. 
I agree with GT and consider those that only grow to 6cm as half giants. They carry giant genes but can't grow to max size (the largest I've heard is 12cm - very rare and takes over a year).

Good giant genes enables them to reach 6cm in 3 months (not mine) if fed excessively. Even a pair of good giant genetics MAY not always produce equal quality offspring - locally people say it depends on how "strong" (dominant) the genes are. 

Because breeders often cross breed to regular bettas (to improve finnage and color) giant genes are even more unpredictable in my area. Sometimes a pair of half giant sized (most are bred at 6-7cm) does not produce giants or even half giants (not me).


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm, interesting.. Yeah I'd aim to breed a giant to a giant - higher chance. If I had the experience :lol: and time (lots of it) and space (not enough!) lol.

I liked the idea of a bigger betta... Don't care for colors as much, but just the fact the itty bitty betta can now be a big betta.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

So this isn't like gigantism, it's not a body mutation that causes odd growth, and it's not hybridism that will give them indeterminant growth (imagine that, a betta like a goldfish, a foot long in a couple years :shock: ). It's quite literally just good genetics as far as people can tell. I just read this page:
http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/genetics7.htm

And it sounds like you guys breeding 1/2 Giant "King" pairs should end up with a couple true giants if such a creature really exists and isn't just the biggest of the 1/2 giants. I don't see any real genetic breakdowns of this, just observation so I'll be all over watching these giant spawning threads  I'll also keep my eyes open for a 1/2 giant female for the future.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I have always found the punnet square to be confusing for bettas - breeding results doesn't concur the theory. Perhaps this is due to excessive cross breeding thus all have mixtures of genetic codes. Never the less the punnet square or the color genetic theory is useful as a basis of probabilities.

I don't know any breeder, local or otherwise, who has produced 100% giants. The most giants produced is about 30%. 70% is made up of normal regulars and those that suddenly stop growing (usually they have giant form - wide body).

BTW, the term "1/2 giant" is only something I use for those that can't grow to max giant size but carry giant genes. Locally they're all called giants. Though they can produce true giants but most of their offspring will be half giants.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah I was wondering of the punnet square... because my Madame was a Plakat, but say she may have had something else? And being black with metallic blue and green - what else does she hold for genetics? Same with Maine. A dark blue with light blue highlights and some red through his fins - sure he is VT, but who knows if he had another tail type in his genes? Lol. 

But I go with what was dominant (visible) than recessive (not shown) then it works out better  I wish places near here had giant or "half" giant bettas... that'd be nice. I'll end up getting mine from Thailand probably.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

It's harder to keep import fish alive....
From what I've been reading...
There a few people on here...
That's trying to breed giant....
If your going to breed them....
All I'm telling u...
Is that they eat a lot and often....
Plus they grow really fast...
My r a day away from five weeks...
More then half of the fry can eat a whole tubflix worm without a problem....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That's pretty amazing :lol: and like I said I would definitely wait to breed them... my gosh lol  I mean I have one particular fry of my regular betta batch (VTxPK) that is double everyone else's size... And she/he eats a lot more than the littler fellas. I also notice, more water changes cause faster growth (diffuse the horomone the fish give out to slow growth)... now I can imagine that kind of thing with giants o_o And what happens if you got... 50? THAT is a lot :lol:


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Warm water...
Longer light...
Live food...
More water change tend to get my fry to grow up faster..
50 is a small batch durning the hot season....
I tend to have a higher survive rate during late spring n early summer...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I picked a small number :lol: but for me, living in Canada there really isn't much for warm climates - being in Alberta, freak storms is pretty terrible. If I were to breed giants, I'd be needing many tanks


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Colder weather tend to produce slower growing fish...
Which I believe they look better then fast rasing one...
Better fin n body.....
If your just going for one spawn...
U won't need that many tank....
Just one breeding(10 gallon) and a grow out tank(50-125)...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That's true. But also depends on how many fry survive, and of course shouldn't shove a 3 inch betta in a small jar (if jarring is needed)  then again I got bins from the dollar store :lol: works pretty well.

Well all I can say, is I'd learn from you guys before ever attempting.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

House giant...
You will need a lot of space n bins...
5-10 gallon for just one fish....
Yeah reading helps...
But nothing beat hand on experience....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

hey green tea.....
prepare yourself if your planning to breed giant....

my male 3 1/4in 








my female 3 1/8in 








five week after the egg hatch...
with lot of feeding.....
i got this.....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Agreed with hands on experience  but I'd like to get some thoughts from others and see what they do and how it went  plus I need more space :lol: and wow... Green Tea will have hands full with the hopeful giant spawn(s)


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

You dont need 5 - 10 gallons per fish for growout, as adults yes. Your spawn looks awesome, what will their coloring be like?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes for the grown up....
Not really sure yet....
All I know is that I have a few green, blue n paste...


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