# White tail stripe now spreading to back and head!



## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Hi Betta Experts!

My poor little Einstein's tail has becoming more white as of late and now his head has a pretty decent size white spot. I've done everything possible that I know and need some expert advice!

I did a 30% water change in his 2.5 gallon tank last week and yesterday again. He's the only one in there. I use filtered water from the fridge, adjust the temp exactly to what his tank is (between 78-82), and add 1-2 salt pebbles and dechlorination liquid before putting it in his tank. He has 2 moss balls now (removed the other 3 since I thought maybe they were producing too much algae at one point). I also purchased the Runbo test strip for pH, hardness, nitrate, chorine, alkalinity, etc. and all comes back normal!

He's eating his Japanese pebbles (3 at a time am and pm (zero go to the bottom because I'm OCD with caring for him). I rinsed the carbon filter and white pebbles (forget the name for these) and then grabbed 80% of the pebbles at the bottom of his tank and rinsed all of those as well (and rinsed the 2 moss balls).

He mostly hangs at the top of his tank where the water filtration and heater cord is, I've never seen him on the bottom for any extended period of time and generally he seems happy but clearly something is wrong... What else could it be? I'm open to getting solution for fin rot (found Melafix online) but want to make sure I'm treating the right thing... there's also Furan-2, Fin and Body Cure, and Fungus Cure. Help!


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## fishowner550 (Mar 26, 2020)

Many thanks to BF/TFK Member Mike for developing this questionnaire. It is the same form with a few additions.


Please copy and paste into a new message and fill out this form when seeking help for your Betta. This information and a clear photo posted directly into the thread will help us give you the most accurate advice possible. Without the information and photos the best we can do is guess.

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Thank you,

The Betta Fish Team

Many illnesses can be traced to water conditions. Your water-changing schedule is the most important element in diagnosing. Please be honest.

*Housing:*
How many gallons is your tank?
Does it have a filter?
Does it have a heater?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?

*Food:*
What food brand do you use?
Do you feed flakes or pellets?
Freeze-dried?
How often do you feed your Betta? How much?

*Maintenance:
Before* your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?
What percentage of water did you change?
What is the source of your water?
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?

*Water Parameters:*
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

*Symptoms and Treatment:*
When did you first notice the symptoms?
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
Is your Betta still eating?
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
How long have you owned your Betta?
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?

*PLEASE PROVIDE CLEAR PHOTOS*

*NOTE: EMBED YOUR PHOTOS. PLEASE DO NOT LINK.* Click on the paper clip in the toolbar.

*Your fish is your responsibility.*
When seeking help be thorough as members give advice based on the information _you_ provide. While we have many knowledgeable fish keepers here, please remember that members' opinions are their own and that it is up to you to determine the best course of action for your fish. We are not responsible for any consequences resulting from following the advice you receive here


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## fishowner550 (Mar 26, 2020)

Also can you provide a before pic?


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

The two pics are best I can do since he's swimming around and making it difficult but I can try to post more if they aren't clear enough! And if they didn't post I'll post them again below.

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 2.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 78-82
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Not sure what this is...
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Hikari Bio Gold pellets
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Morning and night, 3 pellets

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every week
What percentage of water did you change? 25% change
What is the source of your water? Filtered fridge water
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out (and recently took everything out to wash it)
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? API

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:0-10
pH: 6.8/7.2
Hardness (GH): 0
Alkalinity (KH): 0

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Last week
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Yes, worsened especially now on his head it's white
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Not particularly 
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No, so many options and I don't know what to choose and what's specifically wrong
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? I've encountered him showing slight signs of fin rot previously due to the white tail but it seemed to just go away with water changes. We also experienced swim bladder.
How long have you owned your Betta? 2 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Hoping someone can advise so I can purchase the right medicine, thank you!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

There is every possibility your Betta has a marble gene and is simply changing color. This change can occur at any time in their life. As he is eating and active, I would suggest you let it alone. Refusal to eat or loss of appetite and lethargy are the first signs a fish is ailing so you always want to seek help if you notice either.

Marimo Moss Balls are a specialized form of algae; they are not plants. They are good in an aquarium as they compete with other algae for the same nutrients.

If you are having algae issues, how long are the lights on? Does the tank get light from a window? Lights on for more than eight hours and/or extra light from a window can cause algae to form.



> I've encountered him showing slight signs of fin rot previously due to the white tail but it seemed to just go away with water changes.


Does this mean his caudal was white or had a white rim when you bought him?

He does not appear to have fin rot but is, rather, fin biting. Can you post a photo of his entire tank? Doesn't matter if we can see him.

And, as fishowner550 asked, can you post a "before" photo? One before he started having any issues.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Hello, thank you for responding. So I fed him dinner and he ate his 3 pellets and has been swimming around but I panicked after I saw his initial photo when we brought him home... since he doesn't look any better (if anything the white is spreading) so I just did a 75% water change and measured the ammonia and it seems to be .25 now versus 0 before so I'm letting the filter run through the water for a bit until I put him back. I washed all the fake plants, moss balls, and pebbles as well as wiped the inside of the tank. Here's a photo of the tank, him before, and the reading level test (seems like water hardness has increased significantly)... trying my best but feel defeated.  I also ordered Maracyn 2 (Amazon.com : Fritz Aquatics - 8 Count Mardel Maracyn 2 Treats (47000) : Pet Supplies)

Just want him to be a healthy happy betta! Appreciate the help.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Oh and his tank was clear already, I just felt like I needed to do something while I waited for the meds to be delivered on Saturday. I had the white light on during the day but the algae seemed to increase so now I use the blue option for about 10-12 hours a day.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You should never medicate unless have a concrete reason/diagnosis. You can cause much more harm than good if you do...and render a fish immune to that med if it is needed for a real reason later on.

However, we are ultimately the only ones responsible for those in our care and must decide whether to accept or reject advice. If you believe he is ill and not marbling/changing color, then you must do what you feel best.

Good luck.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I read that as well, do you recommend I put him in the tank and just keep doing what I’m doing? I didn’t put salt in the water which I did in the past... any other ideas/suggestions? Do you think his change of color and fins looking so disheveled is normal?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

We forgot to ask: Are the white areas smooth or fuzzy?

From the looks of his fins, I believe Einstein is biting. This often happens when Betta have larger fins like Einstein. Fin rot is 99% caused by dirty habitat which allows bacteria to thrive. I note your care is perfect and you keep his tank immaculate so there goes the main reason for fin rot.

There is no positive reason for fin biting but theories are wide; from biting to relieve excess weight to boredom. You might add more plants. Betta like lots of plants/cover. They do not do as well in open tanks.

When you do water changes you can rinse the filter pad in old tank or treated tap water. Do not replace once a month as instructed. This causes you to lose nitrifying bacteria. So keep it until it starts falling apart. When you notice that happening, get a replacement and put it in the filter along with the old one. That way, the nitrifying bacteria will be seeded in the new filter media. You should, however, replace the carbon/charcoal once a month.

You can make maintenance care easier by buying a gravel vacuum. A lot of detritus can sift down into the substrate and cause water issues. Shove the gravel vac down into the substrate and leave it there until the water runs clear before moving to another spot. It may take a week or two to completely clean. You won't need to remove Einstein.

I might try turning the white light on for four hours and the blue four to see if you still get algae.

If, at any point, Einstein refuses to eat or becomes lethargic you should always let us know ASAP.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Thank you for all the help! The white spots show more of his head/bald vs fuzzy which I know is some other disease from research. Do you have suggestions on what plants to purchase? I've never seen him bite but that's not to say he doesn't. His attitude is a happy fish and he 100% of the time swims to us when we put our face close to the glass and talk to him before feeding and intermittently throughout the day since he's in the kitchen (we decided the bedroom was too lonely for him).

What explains the whiteness though? I'm assuming that couldn't be from boredom and that's a main concern although his poor little fins are concerning as well... I bought this manual vacuum with great reviews but honestly I haven't figured out how to use it yet because the water doesn't suck at all so I'm sure I've been doing extra work but will look into how to properly work the vacuum.

I'll try giving him 4 hours of white light tomorrow!


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Are 3 pellets 2x/day appropriate? I'm sure he would eat more but I'm worried about overfeeding since I already nursed him back to health after swim bladder disease which was a whole episode in and of itself.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Here's a pic of him in his tank as of 2 minutes ago. He likes to stay up by the top left which seems to maybe circulate air inward but he's swimming around and again seems generally happy... just looks in need of some help.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

And I'm looking at logs to purchase but of course there's always some terrible reviews like the paint is chipping off or there's jagged edges... maybe I'm just being paranoid but last thing I want to do is hurt Einstein...


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Just to make sure, I have asked a couple of other people about Einstein. I would feel so guilty if I steered you wrong.

I think your care is perfect. If you want to give Einstein treats, get him some frozen Bloodworms, Mini Bloodworms or Baby Brine Shrimp. And I would consider switching to NorthFin Betta Bits, New Life Spectrum or Omega One pellets. They have whole fish or whole fish meal as the first ingredients and fewer fillers. Three pellets 2 x per day is good.

And you can use silk plants if you prefer. If you want to try live, Anubias are pretty much bomb-proof and don't need a lot of light. You can let them float or attach to decor.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Thank you for asking around. I came home from work to find him on his side at the top of the tank and I freaked out. He swam to me (thank goodness) but his condition doesn't seem to be better; if anything I would say he's getting worse with the floating on the side thing. What else could it be? Should I isolate him in a salt bath? I wouldn't have a heater or filter at that point though.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I'm thinking it could be swim bladder disease since I haven't fasted him because I wanted to see if he was still eating with his other conditions but maybe I"ll fast him just for dinner tonight.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

It's difficult to tell what's really going on with Einstein. The first photos appear as if it's a color change. However, the closeup tells a different story.

Have his head and the area in front of his dorsal always been raised or has that happened just since you started seeing the white?

What meds are you receiving on Saturday other than the Maracyn 2?

As Einstein may have a bacterial infection I've asked Veloran to comment. He is much more versed on the use of antibiotics than am I.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I’m not sure if it’s always been raised :/ I just ordered the Maracyn 2, what else do you believe I should order? Let me know soonest please since it takes a few days to receive. Thank you.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi there, sorry the little one isn't doing well. It possible that he may have some sort of bacterial infection.
Is Seachem Kanaplex available to you? It's a more broad spectrum antibiotic.

Also, unless there's something really wrong with your water, you can just use tap water. Filters sometimes strip out valuable minerals that they need for health. You should also get used to changing his water with a gravel vacuum so you can get the debris out.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I can look for it online. Do you recommend I try the meds I already purchased? (It arrives Saturday). What are your thoughts for the reason of his sickness? Thank you!


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Arrives Aug 6-8... seems far away. Please advise on the other meds I already purchased and how this one is different if you can? I just want to treat him sooner rather than later. Thank you!



Amazon.com


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

You can try the Maracyn-2, it's a good antibiotic, you should have time to give him one round then a couple of days without meds before trying the Kanaplex.
The Kanaplex and Maracyn are both antibiotics, the Maracyn is minocycline based and is effective at treating many forms of gram negative bacteria (especially internal infections), however, due to it's age, many strains of bacteria have become resistant. Kanaplex is kanamycin based, is effective at treating many forms of gram negative bacteria (especially internal infections) but is more broad spectrum as it is newer. It is also effective at treating fungal infections which typically set in as a secondary infection if the fish has any necrotic tissue.
Essentially, they both target many of the same problems, the Kanaplex is just a bit more effective.

I suspect he's had this for a while, and his immune system might have gotten to the point where it was compromised enough for the infection to get a good foothold to rapidly progress. What worries me is the dark band between the two white spots which looks to be either atrophied or the white spots retaining fluid making it look that way. The white in those two spots makes me suspect an internal infection coupled with some kind of deficiency (which is why I also recommended not filtering the water).


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## LadybugGirl7 (Jul 24, 2020)

If the white seems to be fuzzy, it could be ick, which is a parasite. It could also be a type of fungus. However, some bettas will just randomly change color which is a genetic trait. If your betta is floating on his side or has trouble swimming, then this could be an issue with the swim bladder. My betta sometimes gets constipated and floats on her side. After a few days of fasting, she goes back to normal. But if your fish is struggling to swim up to the surface you should remove some water. If your fish can't swim down, you should put in plants for him to rest on. Silk plants are best. Plastic will work if there's no sharp edges. I use real plants called anubias nana and let them float on the surface.

As long as you keep the water clean and warm (75-80F), sometimes less is best when it comes to bettas. If you change too much, you'll stress them out. And treating with medications is really only good if you know what is wrong. Incorrect meds can make the betta worse. 

Whenever my betta starts acting strange, my first reaction is to use Indian Almond Leaves. They turn the water brown because of the tannins in them. They're supposed to help with stress and give them a slime coating which could help with physical injuries.

Since your betta is prone to fin biting, the water must always stay very clean or fin rot can set in. I had a delta tail who always chewed his tail to a nub. He lived for like 3 years with no tail but you'll always have to monitor yours to make sure it doesn't start going black at the edges


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Thank you! I started the Maracyn-2 yesterday and will not conduct any water changes. I'll order the Kanaplex so I can try to give him that after the Maracyn, how long should I wait in between? I don't personally see the dark band, I think that's his original blue color and the white spots just happened to form in between but I could be wrong... 

The white spots aren't fuzzy so I've deemed out ick (for now)... why is he fin biting? Does that mean he physically bites his fins and why? Can I do anything to help that? The water is crystal clear but I read the Maracyn-2 might make it cloudy so I'll try not to panic and change anything.  He's back to swimming around and eating, happy fish minus his physical appearance! I believe it has to be some type of fungus though because I don't think a color change would look like this and change his fin colors to white etc. 

I have plastic plants right now but there doesn't seem to be sharp edges (I checked and make sure they aren't pressed up against the glass too much either because he tends to like to swim in between things which could cut a portion of his little fins).

Thanks for all the help, I'll keep everyone updated!


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Just to clarify; of all the medicine I should try next, Kanaplex would be best? Thank you!


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I also purchased some flakes for him as treats but haven't tried them yet and another member mentioned bloodworms but I've only found freeze dried online, is that good?


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## AndreaPond (May 2, 2020)

Neither flakes nor freeze dried are recommended. Frozen blood worms, brine shrimp and mysis shrimp are best, along with pellets. You can get them at your local fish store. My guy LOVES the blood worms and brine shrimp. Like RussellThe ShihTsu advises, you can defrost a cube of the frozen food with a little bit of tank water and keep it in the fridge for 5-6 days.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You might want to check, but I believe Veloran said a couple of days before starting the Kanaplex.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

High quality flakes aren't bad, they just tend to foul the water because of the way these little guys eat. Freeze dried should only be used sparingly. Frozen is best overall.
We can assess him after he gets done with the round of Maracyn. Usually you want to give him about 48 hours between, the longer the better as meds are hard on the fish.
If he's still ailing, Kanaplex would be next as it's is broad spectrum. If it were fungus, it would have a more cottony appearance, but Kanaplex helps target fungus as well.

Fin biting is a hit or miss thing that you will have to try. It can range from the decor in his tank to the size of his tank or him just being bored.
My saffron started biting his fins the night my heat and his heater went out at the same time and I had to change his heater at 1am in the morning. After that he bit only the top 1/3 of his caudal and then a year later all of a sudden stopped.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I'll look into frozen food for him! We are on Day 4 and then Day 6 the directions say to conduct a 25% water change. Einstein is still happy as can be, eating his 3-4 pellets (he seemed hungry so I sometimes give him 4), swimming up to me, and his white spots seem to not be spreading so that's a good sign! I ordered the Kanaplex and will wait 48 hours to see how he's doing, what should be the determining factor in trying Kanaplex? Or should I try it regardless after a few days (I know Veloran mentioned meds are tough on these little guys).

If it's boredom, what do you all recommend? I haven't found a good "toy" for them besides a floating log but the reviews say the paint chips and it has hard edges etc.

Right now we are undergoing a fireplace renovation which is loud so I moved Einstein to my bathroom this morning so he doesn't get as much noise. Hopefully the move wasn't too stressful but I felt it was better than being in our living room. He should be able to move back to the kitchen tomorrow.


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## fishowner550 (Mar 26, 2020)

Some people say that a pingpong ball is good entertainment for them ive never tried that though so I cant confirm or deny it.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Follow Veloran's advice.


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## LadybugGirl7 (Jul 24, 2020)

fishowner550 said:


> Some people say that a pingpong ball is good entertainment for them ive never tried that though so I cant confirm or deny it.


I tried the ping pong ball with one of my bettas and all it did was stress him out and he would flare at it, so I never did that again


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## fishowner550 (Mar 26, 2020)

I guess its different for every betta.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Not everything works for every Betta. You just have to experiment until you find something. Bottle caps, mirrors, training to swim through drinking straw circles are other things some Betta find intriguing. Just don't play until the Betta loses interest. Leave 'em wanting more.

And use laser pointers sparingly...if at all. Studies have shown that they can have harmful psychological effects on animals.


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## fishowner550 (Mar 26, 2020)

I have used mirrors before to try and get him to flare but he refused, I might try some of those things in the future, but right now if it is stress causing the biting I dont want to stress him more.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Bgreen519 said:


> I'll look into frozen food for him! We are on Day 4 and then Day 6 the directions say to conduct a 25% water change. Einstein is still happy as can be, eating his 3-4 pellets (he seemed hungry so I sometimes give him 4), swimming up to me, and his white spots seem to not be spreading so that's a good sign! I ordered the Kanaplex and will wait 48 hours to see how he's doing, what should be the determining factor in trying Kanaplex? Or should I try it regardless after a few days (I know Veloran mentioned meds are tough on these little guys).
> 
> If it's boredom, what do you all recommend? I haven't found a good "toy" for them besides a floating log but the reviews say the paint chips and it has hard edges etc.
> 
> Right now we are undergoing a fireplace renovation which is loud so I moved Einstein to my bathroom this morning so he doesn't get as much noise. Hopefully the move wasn't too stressful but I felt it was better than being in our living room. He should be able to move back to the kitchen tomorrow.


After the treatment, post a couple pictures of him. It's good that the white is no longer spreading, I'm also looking for his form to become more streamline.
If he's active and eating, not showing signs of distress, we can wait it out. Many times, with illnesses, they just need a little kickstart to help their immune systems get over that hump.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Ok treatment ended yesterday and I completed a 25% water change. Einstein seems happy as always and maybe it’s just me but I think some color is coming back, little more pink on his head. I’ll wait a couple days and see how he does before I try any more treatment. What should I look for specifically? Thanks everyone!


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## IAmAbeTTaFisHOwneR (Aug 1, 2020)

I am probably wrong but maybe he's just changing color?


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## IAmAbeTTaFisHOwneR (Aug 1, 2020)

like "marbling"


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I'm honestly not sure... how would I know? The white fins made me nervous it was fin rot. After the treatment his color seems to be more purple vs white and stopped spreading. I don't want to treat him for something else if we don't know what's wrong. I'm open to suggestions/info on the color changing but I think fish change colors everywhere and within a week? Thanks!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Betta can take months for a color change to complete and can color change at any time in their life. However, I was wrong that Einstein was color changing-only. Am glad Veloran else stepped in with suggestions beyond such.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

What should I look for in the next few days to determine if I should treat him with another dose of the Macalyn? Thanks!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is he active? Eating? Are there more raised areas?

If he were mine I would take daily photos and watch him for at least a week. You might not need to do another round of antibiotics.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Give him some time, look for any swelling or odd activities.
His caudal fins look healthier (maybe he's not biting as much) and it seems like what I thought was swelling looks to be coming down a bit. He may still marble and change color but he's getting that torpedo look to his body back.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Looks like he is starting to get more of the discoloration/white color more towards his left cheek and very small amount below his right eye. He's eating, swimming around, and acting fine... I woke up at 5am today and he was sleeping soundly on the bottom of his tank (is that normal)? As soon as he noticed me there he swam right over to say hello. I haven't ordered the Kanaplex yet because I was waiting to see how he did with the Macalyn. Thoughts?


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sleeping on the bottom of the tank is dependent on the betta. They usually like to stuff themselves into or behind something near the surface, but it's no unusual for them to nap at the bottom of the tank.
Hold off on anything else, he had two issues going on. There's the odd shape and what looked to be some fluid retention on his head and by his dorsal, plus the state of his fins and he is also appears to be doing some interesting and aggressive marbling. As mentioned, he's getting back that slender shape and the fins look healthier, keep his tank clean and let's see how he progresses.
As long as he's eating fine and exploring his tank, I'm not as much worried about the color change.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

I'll hold off on any more meds and keep you all updated! I'll take photos as well.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

He may also be on the substrate because he has nothing higher up to rest on. Unless you have something that isn't visible.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)




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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

Here's an update everyone! Einstein is swimming around and a happy fish. I didn't give him any more meds and continue to feed him 3 pebbles morning and night and clean his tank weekly. He does seem to have marbled quite a bit! But comparing photos his tail fins are more ragged... open to ideas!  Thanks!


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Up his water changed to twice weekly (50% each change) and see if you can get some Seachem VitaChem, it's a vitamin supplement.


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## Bgreen519 (May 23, 2020)

50% seems like a lot but I can try it, purchased the vitamin supplement! Thanks!


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