# Newbie Question



## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

I know nothing about showing bettas- or any animals for that matter, so just now I was reading one of the other recent threads where a person was asking what betta showing is all about and how you get into it, and people talked about how one should join the IBC, obtain some good quality breeding pairs,breed your fish and then show the resulting offspring. Which got me wondering (and my Apologies if this is a bit of a "dumb" question) but when it comes to showing bettas, can you show fish you did not breed yourself, or is one only allowed to show the resulting offspring of a pair you bred? Like if I saw a really nice show quality fish and bought it, could I show that individual that I purchased or could I only show the offspring I bred from that individual?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

You can only show a fish that isn't your own breeding if you do a team entry which doesn't count for points so sorta pointless unless you are just wanting "bragging rights" as far as saying your offspring are from a champion fish(if you happen to win).

Good luck in finding a champion show quality fish for sale. Nearly all of what is sold ANYWHERE are culls. Meaning the breeder has kept the very best for themselves.

I like it that way because that keeps someone from just buying a nice fish and claiming points. Breeding until you get a nice quality fish is tough.


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes, i had gathered from reading the thread I mentioned that typically people can't show a fish they didn't breed, but wasn't entirely sure I was coming to the correct conclusion based on what I had been reading. You are right, it seems much more challenging- and rewarding to show a fish you yourself bred as opposed to one you bought off of someone else. Thanks so much for the answer, could you possibly go into more detail about team entries? (not that I'm planning on showing but now you've piqued my interest here lol)


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

THere is a provision for you to purchase and show joint with breeder. But no points are awarded.

The showing is for breeders..how their crosses and care stack up against others. Not cool to buy a fish and win. Not only are you taking points away from those who have done a gazillion water changes.. it then boils down to how much are you willing to spend on a winner. And most breeders do it because they love the breeding and the art of bettas. Buying winners sticks in the craw...


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## JustinieBeanie (Apr 22, 2013)

Basement Bettas said:


> THere is a provision for you to purchase and show joint with breeder. But no points are awarded. Buying winners sticks in the craw...


Yeah that's why I was wondering, because otherwise if you're super rich you could just buy winning fish and win shows without putting any time energy or effort into their breeding, which is not really fair- or fun! I'm just trying to work out what would be the benefit of "joint showing" if its not for points, is it just to " get your foot in the door" and see if you like showing or something?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

You could potentially buy a diamond in the rough that could be shown and win. You would be able to mark et the fry as being from champions.


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

I think paired showing are more for joint projects(say you bread a gorgeous red HM and sent it to a friend to breed to their red HM female, and the two of you decide to share credit of the fry even though they technically bred it).


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Ilikebutterflies said:


> You could potentially buy a diamond in the rough that could be shown and win. You would be able to mark et the fry as being from champions.


Does not work like that. Showing is about a breeder putting their work before a judge. Not buying some pet shop fish and it taking a ribbon on a whim. There is a standard. And your pet shop fish will not meet it.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

> Does not work like that. Showing is about a breeder putting their work before a judge. Not buying some pet shop fish and it taking a ribbon on a whim. There is a standard. And your pet shop fish will not meet it.


Pretty sure I didn't say _anything_ about a pet shop fish. 

Anyway, it was to answer the question of why one would do a team entry with a breeder. This:



> I'm just trying to work out what would be the benefit of "joint showing"


One_ could_ buy a young fish that turns out quite nice and be shown as a team entry with the breeder. If the fish wins that makes it a class winner and could make the fry more desirable. I see fish on ab quite often as from champion parents. If it didn't matter I'm sure that extra bit of info wouldn't get added in.


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## Aluka (Dec 25, 2012)

I wonder if this is only for bettas?

I was at my local aquarium club and we have auctions every meeting. There are many seasoned (20-60 years experience some of them, yea most of them are a bit old) breeders of all kinds of fish.

There was a trio of i think swordtails? i forget, the breeder is the only person with i think tri color, cause he bred them himself. ( details are fuzzzy, this was in july). One of the board member brought bid and won the auction and said he is taking it to a show because they are that nice.

So, it sounded like to me that its okay to just enter fish you brought in other fish categories?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Most of the shows here in Australia you can show bettas you have purchased because they are not IBC sanctioned shows.

I think it really depends on the rules of the show holders.


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

It depends on the rules/who's sponsoring the show, yes.
But I would assume it's still frowned upon as the buyer put zero work into the fish.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

There are currently people buying fish from AB and showing them as a team entry and they are making the breeders mad.I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion about this before year end and some things changed in the next season. There is growing resentment towards people that think they can buy a placing and keep the points from those that actually bred and raised their fish. It is not what t he showing system was set up for. You want to show, you need to do the work.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I think a pair of fish I bred were shown recently as a team entry. I was sort of on the fence about it, because all the new owners have had to do is keep the fish alive and in adequate condition for a few months. I can definitely see where the breeders would be getting mad. 

Since I have absolutely zero interest in ever showing, I am happy to have my fish out there. But at the same time I hope as the breeder, I am getting recognition for my efforts. It takes a lot to raise wild bettas. Some of my species don't mature for 8-12 months and that's 8-12 months of blood, sweat and tears on my behalf. 

We show dogs in conformation and while we look after and fit up our dogs for the show season, it is still the breeder who ultimately should take credit for producing the dog.


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## Aluka (Dec 25, 2012)

I wonder what happens if a casual breeder, bred a beautiful show worthy fish but doesn't have the time to go to a show, and wants to send the fish to someone else to take it to a show?

Cause if somehow i accidentally bred a show worthy fish, i would never have the time to actually go to a show. But i wont mind if a friend of mine take it and enter a show for me. I wouldn't care of points, just want people to see the fish.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

It is not about people seeing the fish. It is being measured against a standard and the fish there that day. You want people to see your fish .. post a pic in this forum. More exposure than at a show.

And breeding show fish takes work. Doubt one is just going to happen in your fish room. Breeders actually plan breedings and we do not always win. We change water often daily.. watch foods and nutrition. Seriously doubt some casual breeder is going to produce a champ. specially when you do not know what you are breeding for.


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## Aluka (Dec 25, 2012)

I think you underestimate the casual breeder. While I dont know all the standards that showing a fish requires, i do do daily or twice daily water changes for my bettas, and i do pay attention to both food and nutrition. Standards I can learn.

So I find it hard to believe that if i continue breeding towards the standard and breeding in fish to compliment my own line, that years from now I will not be able to breed a single show quality fish.

Its not about exposure, its about knowing that i bred a fish that qualify to be in a show. It doesn't have to win, but just being good enough to enter, i feel like will be a great accomplishment.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Oops wrong thread entirely!


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

If you are doing that you are not a casual breeder. IF you are breeding to the standard you have direction.. it is not casual. There is a difference. I can understand from where you are talking the idea of team makes sense. For that it would be good to team up with one person that will show the fish so you have consistency and your fish get out there. Then you get credibility as a breeder. I thought you were talking about just putting 2 fish in together and producing a champion.. sorry.


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## Aluka (Dec 25, 2012)

lol, maybe because I count casual fish keeping as any form of fish keeping that is not done as a business or full time job =<...

I consider myself a casual fishkeeper, but then i also have 17 tanks....or 19 cause i just brought a chi and another small tank =<....


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Aluka said:


> lol, maybe because I count casual fish keeping as any form of fish keeping that is not done as a business or full time job =<...
> 
> I consider myself a casual fishkeeper, but then i also have 17 tanks....or 19 cause i just brought a chi and another small tank =<....



Casual fish keepers only have 1 tank and it's just there. Maybe they keep it for a year or 2.

Then you have the crazy fish people like myself and some people here. I have a 100gal 80gal two 20gal. Then a betta fish room with a 30gal and 36gal grow out tank and jars. 

I am not a casual I fish keeper but it is not my business this is a hobby I am very into. If you have 17 tank you are not a casual fish keeper this is your hobby it's about more then just having a fish tank for the hell of it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You can buy a fish from someone, breed it and if you get a fish out of the spawn that conforms to the standards then you can show it.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 20, 2013)

Aluka said:


> i do do daily or twice daily water changes for my bettas, .


Twice daily per fish or a few tanks in the am and the remained in the evening?


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## Aluka (Dec 25, 2012)

twice daily for my "frys" and bettas being conditioned for breeding.


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