# Advice for a transexual betta's mommy?



## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Hey guys,

So as most of you know, I got my fish Rosie about a month ago. "She" was labeled as a female, but as she's started to grow, her fins have been getting longer and I think she is going to turn out to be a he.

For some reason, I'm having a REALLY hard time with this. I mean, when I got her, it was just me and her, two girlfriends living together. I would talk to her like she was a girl and I just saw her as a FEMALE. But now it seems that she has actually decided to become male ... For some reason this upsets me. I love her no matter what and she will always be my first fish friend, but I can't help but feel like the Rosie I bonded with is dying :-(
I'm not really sure what to do right now. Has anyone else had a similar experience with a gender-bending betta? Any advice?
Do I have to rename and bond all over again?

-MadameDesu


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

He's still the same fish, the love should be the same with longer fins! He really didn't change into something else after all.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

I know that, but it's sort of hard to let my aspirations for a cute little girl go.
I wish it would have been more obvious ...


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

does she have a white dot under her belly? if so yes should could be, does her. did you ever put her near a male and she'll have bars that go up and down? beard stick out her gills? a pic with her closer would help
not all females are short finned:








that was my girl's bidding photo, she passed away in a month, and she got beat up by a male for jumping over a divider:








^^^^that was the last pic i got of her
also if she is a male. dosen't mean she is transsexual she was just a very young male. also how long you had her? that would help


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

MadameDesu said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So as most of you know, I got my fish Rosie about a month ago. "She" was labeled as a female, but as she's started to grow, her fins have been getting longer and I think she is going to turn out to be a he.
> 
> ...


I've never had a gender-bending betta before but there is one thing I know, renaming?its up to you-maybe just take her name now and revamp it.But bonding again?No, just because rosie might be a boy doesn't change her personality or how much you love her, if you find out that rosie is a he, will her personality change?If you find out rosie is a he, will you love her any less?I don't think so, but I'll tell you one thing, you're not loosing her, you're finding her all over again, I hope I helped


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

She has an egg spot, and her beard doesn't stick out her gills.
But her fins just keep getting longer and longer.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Might still be a girl then.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

BeckyFish97 said:


> I've never had a gender-bending betta before but there is one thing I know, renaming?its up to you-maybe just take her name now and revamp it.But bonding again?No, just because rosie might be a boy doesn't change her personality or how much you love her, if you find out that rosie is a he, will her personality change?If you find out rosie is a he, will you love her any less?I don't think so, but I'll tell you one thing, you're not loosing her, you're finding her all over again, I hope I helped


Awww ... that's actually really beautiful.
If she does turn out to be a he, I'll just go with Rosario!
I do love him/her, no matter what! It's just hard to shift mindsets, I guess.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i had a fry i raised from a month old baby. i called it a he more often than not, because it felt like it'd grow into a boy to me. 

then, at 3 months old, i finally found out my little trooper, was a girl. instead of being upset, i was excited! it was a fun twist! you bonded with Rosie. it might help if you kept his name as Rosie(even though it's girlie). really, Rosie's still the same fish, just threw you a twist.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

How long until their fins are fully grown?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Can you post a recent photo? I can determine gender very easily.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Here's one that shows the fin length pretty well. 
I just took some others, so I'll upload soon.


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

MadameDesu said:


> Awww ... that's actually really beautiful.
> If she does turn out to be a he, I'll just go with Rosario!
> I do love him/her, no matter what! It's just hard to shift mindsets, I guess.


 Actually I just realised I DO (or I did  )have a gender bending fish!He/She is a tetra!I didn't think of Him/Her because its hard to tell the difference anyway lol (tetras dont like you to know much about them) He/She is called shadow, I never new He was a she until I took a photo down to the fish shop when she seemed ill, the guy there noticed I was calling her shadow and not too kindly pointed out he was a she, I never really stopped thinking she was a he, because to me she was just my shadow.She died a couple of months back  (epidemics suck) (actually saying that so does my memory)


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

MadameDesu said:


> Here's one that shows the fin length pretty well.
> I just took some others, so I'll upload soon.


 Just seen the picture, if I'm honest to me she looks like one of my female veiltail's sapphire did (also died in my epidemic  ) (same sort of length fins) but she looks like she has the spade tail gene?I'm no expert but maybe one of the older members might be able to clarify?


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Here are some pictures that show a little more detail.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

It's a female.

=___=; ....


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Female for sure.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0VgnCiuFfA


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

She's just an extra glamorous girl ;-)


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> She's just an extra glamorous girl ;-)


Lol aren't we all


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

beckyfish97 said:


> lol aren't we all


+1


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

female =D I have a spade tail gal, who has longer fins :lol: but she IS a she  it's kind annoying for some, when the female turns out to be a male (which sometimes explains why in sororities he/she beats others up :roll


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh wow! Thanks guys! I'll keep an eye on her.
Really the only thing that made me think she was a he is because a lot of people told me her fins are too long. But she doesn't do "male" things.
She doesn't flare much or build bubblenests. And overall, I think her body shape is more female. Maybe I did just get an extra-glamorous one.
Either way, I think she's a sweetie!
She's dancing to Dude Looks Like a Lady right now :roll:


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Even females make nests :roll: and four of my females flare xD And yeah her eggy belly says female aaalll over :3 

awesome song to dance to :lol:


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

I think that female spade tails may just have longer fins in general.
How rare are spade tails exactly?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

No idea. All I know is my spade tail I thought was just VT, no fancy variation of it or anything :/ then she started to flare at others in the 40, and she had the lovely spade tail! :O and she had longer fins xDD 

Maybe someone else can answer that o.o


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Why not keep his name "Rosie" and continue to talk with him as if he were a she?

Maybe he's having a gender identity crisis and wouldn't mind being considered female


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

lol I'm happy I never had that problem with bettas xD I only made sure with Madame because she was big, and yup she was a she


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Silly fishies, hahaha. Why can't you just tell us what you are?!


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## underdebate (Jan 26, 2012)

This entire thread is sort of upsetting for me because I had a friend-- an actual HUMAN BEING-- who came out to his parents as trans, and they had almost the same reaction, ie. ''I feel like my baby girl is dying," "I've lost my daughter," etc. Imagine how upset he was to hear that from the people whose love he needed the most. People (and fish) are still people (or fish) no matter what gender they may be, okay? Try to remember that.


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## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

^+1


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Underdebate, I totally agree with you. I'm sure that no one posting in this thread meant to be insensitive, though.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think it was more in disappointment that their female fish could've been a male all along :roll: :lol: and it's common for it to happen ><

As for the people part,it's very hard especially for a parent to have a child who'll end up changing what they were made as... something very touchy, and hard to comprehend at the best of times  sorry if this thread came across as rude, or insensitive.. it wasn't meant to be like that


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

all of my females flare. and, out of all the girls i've had, two build bubble nests. so, you can't really judge if a betta's male, or female, based on those two.

either way, it was determined that Rosie is a girl. :B a very beautiful girl, btw. i have a longer-finned female. not nearly as long as your girl, but long for a girl's.

and, you can't say 'spade-tail females have longer fins than other girls', because that's just untrue. some halfmoon females have long fins, some delta-tails have long fins, some veiltails have long tails. only tail types that won't, are plakats and halfmoon plakats.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If she was a he... you'd know. They start showing the signs within a few weeks of coming home. 

I once got a pair of purples from a top breeder. Tried to spawn them but had difficulties... three weeks later the "female" was building nests and flaring very obviously at "her" brother. Within another week "her" fins grew out much longer than any female's could. So sometimes even good breeders have difficulty with sexing their bettas.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

+1


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

I didn't mean to be insensitive. And as Sena said, it would be hard as a parent to hear that from your child. After a long time of knowing them as one specific gender, it would be understandably difficult for them to know what to do. It's not as simple as saying "Oh, you want to switch genders? K, I love you no matter what."
People don't try to be close minded about it, but I think a lot of how we relate to people and even our own identity is influenced by gender, so we would understandably be shaken by something like transsexualism.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I actually kind of giggled at your thread title though :lol: I have to admit... Because I'm thinking... "she got a surgery??" >< I think your betta had you confused


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

I don't even know what to call her, the silly thing. A better word would probably have been androgynous or just "extra-glamorous female" hahaha


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: "manly woman" xDDD I mean I have like....4 manly girls :roll: attitude wise!! Fin wise probably only 2.


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## underdebate (Jan 26, 2012)

No, it's not that simple (although I would certainly hope the parents would love their kid no matter what)-- it's definitely a big deal, for both parent and kid, just as much as any new revelation is, everything from "hey mom, dad, I know you wanted me to be a lawyer but I really want to be a vet" to "hey mom, dad, I think I'm a guy". And I'm sorry I sounded like I was accusing you of closed-mindedness-- that was not my intention at all, I promise.  I'm a little biased myself: I have a lot of friends who are gender-fluid or trans, and I'm lucky to be surrounded by that, because it comes easier for me to be less affected by what gender a person might be. I TOTALLY get that it's not this way for everyone. As I am not a parent, I have no idea how I'd personally react to my child coming out to me, but I think the most important thing I'd try to remember would be that it was about them, not me.

Also, really small aside: the term 'transgender' is a 100% a-okay thing to say! And if you're ever unsure of what gender someone identifies as, it's totally okay to ask "what pronouns would you like me to use for you?" I'm going to stop PSAing now.

ANYWAY, tl;dr: I am so impressed that this discussion is taking place on a forum about betta fish. That's awesome.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

lol have you seen the lounge? =D the best (and sometimes the strangest) convos are there xD


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

underdebate said:


> ANYWAY, tl;dr: I am so impressed that this discussion is taking place on a forum about betta fish. That's awesome.


I _completely_ agree with this.

A lot of people who have known a trans person tend to go through a sort of grieving process when they come out, especially parents and close family, because while the person themselves haven't changed, the other people's ideas about who they are have (so it's more an idea that they're actually grieving). It's a fairly normal thing, and unfortunately they don't always see it as the fact that their loved one is finally trying to be the person who they really are.

While I agree that the things that were said directly to your friend, underdebate, should not always be said to someone who is trans (or, if they are, they're said _very_ carefully), it seems that they're fairly normal feelings. Hopefully your friend's parents don't stop at this stage though and can learn to accept and love him as the son I'm sure he's always wanted to be. 

And, as regards Rosie: you have a very pretty little girl there, MadameDesu. 

As for the discussion on bubblenest-building and flaring females, Beb is almost a better bubblenester than my boys so far, and both Beb and Hai are more than happy to flare, haha.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Hahaha, yeah I know females can build the nests and flare, but she never did either of those things much, so they do count against evidence of her being a male.


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

Yea, I was just mentioning my girls as well, I remembered that Rosie didn't do either -- though, some males don't either, but I agree that she is, no doubt, a she.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Fiona has really long fins too... I double checked she was a she  egg spot, belly o' eggs, and the fact she wasn't in the top 4 of the mexican stand off in my sorority tank xD She's peaceful with my females, although she'll flare now and then saying "whoa!!! too close!" :lol:


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## AngelicScars (May 5, 2009)

MadameDesu said:


> I didn't mean to be insensitive. And as Sena said, it would be hard as a parent to hear that from your child. After a long time of knowing them as one specific gender, it would be understandably difficult for them to know what to do. It's not as simple as saying "Oh, you want to switch genders? K, I love you no matter what."
> People don't try to be close minded about it, but I think a lot of how we relate to people and even our own identity is influenced by gender, so we would understandably be shaken by something like transsexualism.


Actually for me (as a parent of 2) it WOULD be that simple. I'll love them no matter what. If they identify as female, if they are gay, bi, whatever. I want them to be happy and if that makes them happy, then I'm happy.


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

AngelicScars said:


> Actually for me (as a parent of 2) it WOULD be that simple. I'll love them no matter what. If they identify as female, if they are gay, bi, whatever. I want them to be happy and if that makes them happy, then I'm happy.


That is awesome  I wish more parents could be like you.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

same =D lol


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## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

post a pic and we can see if its a boy or girl but it sounds like a boy, my boy has an egg spot


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

+1 Angelic.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

For the human side of the coin, I think it is very helpful for people to understand biologically why transexualism could occur. I mean, it could be a chromosomal abnormality during the fusion of gametes, or perhaps something resultant from abnormal chemical signals during development. At least in my opinion, it makes the entire matter more understandable and less mysterious- which is why I love science. To me a good person (or fish!) is a good person no matter what. That's not to say that I wouldn't have _some_ response to learning that a loved one was transexual...but I would support them no matter what they chose in life.

Getting back to the original thread...the little girl in my avatar was definitely a female and her fins grew longer than they are in the pic. You just got extra finnage on your girl


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## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

could my boy with a egg spot be a girl i just realized! and i have a transgender friend who prefers to be called her but it very manly


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