# Help! Popeye will not go away



## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1 gallon hospital tank for now
What temperature is your tank? 82 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? He is alone, glass bowl, gravel and a silk plant 

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? TetraBetta Mini Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3-4 pellets once a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Everyday lately (used to be 75% 2x a week or 95% 1x a week) 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100% lately
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API tap water conditioner, API Stress Coat, Epsom salts (Replaced aquarium salts for now) 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

pH: 6.5


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
It started out with a tail tumor and finrot. The tumor is still there and hasn't changed much, but almost seems the lesser problem, as he has developed a terrible case of popeye in 1 eye. The popeye seems to have plateaued but his eye is huge. It's not getting better, though seemingly not worse. However it is big. The eye turned blue and now looks like it has a circle of whitish blue fluid around it bulging out of his head. I am also noticing that his spine seems to be very slightly curved. Although this could just be in my head, as his top fin seems to favor over one side of his body at times. However I heard this can be a sign of fish TB which concerns me. It basically seems like he has a laundry list of things wrong, but in the end, he still is swimming and eating like a trooper.

How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
For a while he was just sitting at the bottom of the tank. Now that I've started using epsom salts, he kind of just sits at the top of the tank and moves his way around it. Hasn't been swimming much, but is at least breathing from the surface and not sitting at the bottom of the tanks He will swim to me when I approach the bowl and will also go after food and swim around for a bit. But only if prompted. 

When did you start noticing the symptoms? 3-4 weeks ago. 

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? First did about 7 days of Maracyn I & II + 2tsp. epsom salts. Now switched to Kanaplex + 2 tsp. epsom salts. Has only been on the Kanaplex for 1 day, but no noticeable changes in the popeye. 
I also tried feeding him Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated food, which he promptly spit out. He kept trying to eat, then spitting out. But when I fed him his regular food right after, he ate that with no problem. 

Does your fish have any history of being ill? He has been sick for about 3-4 weeks now. He had fin rot and SBD about 5 months ago. 

How old is your fish (approximately)? he was full sized when I got him over 1 year ago 

I was just wondering if you all had any other ideas as to what his popeye might be attributed to and what else I could do to help it go away? It really looks awful, my poor guy. Not to mention his tail tumor.  But he's still kickin, so if he's got some fight left in him, I want to do all I can to help him out. 
Thanks in advance!


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

You could maybe try upping the epsom salt more to 3 tsp/gal. Otherwise I don't think there's anything else you can do. I've never experience popeye that wouldn't go away unless it was in one of my giant girls with kidney failure.

I'd give the epsom a try and give the medication some more time.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I agree with Pataflafla, it's only been one day. Kanaplex is some strong medicine, it should help kick whatever bacterial infection he's got. Up the epsom salts to 3 tsps, it will help to draw out that excess fluid around his eye. You can also try crushing up the Anti-Parasite pellets to make them smaller and easier to eat.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Yeah, i guess coz i just didn't have much luck with the maracyn...but i am trying not to be too skeptical. 

Because they say to administer the Kanaplex medication every 2 days, should I wait for 2 days to change his water? I don't want to take away from the strength of the medicine. 

Also is garlic soak a good thing to do with the Jungle Parasite-Eliminator meds? Does that make them taste better to the fish?

Thanks again for your help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How have you mixed up the Kanaplex? Same way you mixed up the Maracyn? If you premix it in a big jug, you can save the leftovers for daily water changes. I'm not sure how the dosing goes with Kanaplex, though. 2 days seems like a long time to go without a water change in a 1 gallon. If you fill me in on how you mix up the Kanaplex, I might be able to help.

Yes, you can soak the pellets in garlic. It does make them taste better and the garlic also boosts the immune system.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

I used a serving for 5 gallons (1 scoop) and divvied it up into 5 dosages. I don't have a large enough container for 5 gallons that i can just keep isolated water in, so I figure this was the next best way.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay. Maybe you can do a water change and just redose with the next dosage? I think, though, if you HAVE to go 2 days between water changes it won't kill him. It won't help but it won't drastically harm him. I believe Oldfishlady did an experiment in which she determined the ammonia for a single betta in a 1 gallon tank doesn't start to really build up to toxic amounts until around 36-48 hours. Something along those lines.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Well, just about the worst thing has happened. I started noticing protruding scales today...thinking it's the start of the dreaded D. And the kanaplex did not make the popeye better. 

However, he is still swimming about at the surface (somewhat) and eating. noticed he hasn't used the bathroom in the last 2 days though. 

am giving the maracyn combo another go in the hopes that it will keep him comfortable for a while. also of course keeping the epsom salts going.
cannot for the life of me get him to keep down a Jungle anti-parasite pellet. even with garlic. ugh. 

poor guy


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear this Ayarcee.  Kanaplex is a pretty powerful medicine so I don't know why it isn't helping. Unless his build-up of fluids is NOT due to a bacterial infection and is instead because of another internal issue such as a tumor. I would definitely PM DarkMoon17 for advice. Also, if he isn't already in this dosage, up his epsom salt dosage to 3 tsps per gallon. I'll keep my fingers crossed for him. If at any time you feel he is suffering, then post back. You need to do what you feel is best for him.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well, kanaplex is much more effective when given orally so that might be why it isn't working. Fresh water fish do not drink water like Salt Water fish, all medications must be absorbed through the gills. Kanaplex does absorb better than other meds but maybe it still isn't enough for his infection...

What brand of kanaplex are you using? You might be able to soak his pellets in it to make a medicated feed. 

I have seen considerable improvement using kanaplex with my current girl with popeye and facial swelling... After about 6 days the eye is only a little larger than her normal eye and the facial swelling (localized dropsy) is almost entirely gone. The eye is still a bit foggy though... She might not be able to see out of it anymore. I was using a kanamycin (kanaplex's active ingredient) medicated flakes fed twice per day. 

I highly suggest continuing kanaplex in solution or in his feed. As Sakura said, it could be a result of his tumor...


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi,
thanks for the responses. i am going out of town this weekend unfortunately and have my roommate taking care of the fish. i am leaving him all the instructions on what to do, but he's not fish-owner i am. 

how do i soak pellets in kanaplex? 
also i am using Seachem's brand of kanaplex. 
i am just wondering, since his scales are already slightly protruding, if any of this will help at this point?

it has been hard to watch his slow decline, but he still swims around and has an appetite and that's why i'm not ready to give up yet 

thanks again for all your help!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If it's Seachem Kanaplex, they actually recommend mixing it up with frozen food to make a paste that can be refrozen and fed as necessary. 1 measure, I think the instructions say. I hope it's not a tumor or something.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Sadly, now that he's pineconning his chances are definitely not as good but dropsy is not a death sentence. As long as your boy is still eating it's worth a try. IMO once they stop eating they don't come back... 



> Seachem KanaPlex Directions:
> 
> Use 1 level spoonful (180 mg) for every 20 L (5 gallons). Repeat every 2 days as required up to a maximum of 3 doses. Turn off UV, ozone, and chemical filtration. To feed, blend 1 measure with about 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste. Food may be refrozen.
> 
> Active ingredients: kanamycin sulfate (40%). Inactive ingredients: potassium sulfate (60%)


So, soak thawed-frozen blood worms or glassworms in about 1 measure (I'm guessing that's a spoonful? Or did it come with a measuring cup?). Feed once or twice per day. Your roommate should be able to feed him for you... Continue with 3tsp/gal Epsom and daily water changes. I hope it works, he's a little fighter.


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi,
I don't have any frozen food paste nor do I have the means to get it to him  All i have are Tetra Betta floating pellets. any way you think i could make a paste out of those? 
i also noticed he hasn't used the bathroom since i changed his water on Monday/Tuesday.

not a great sign huh?


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Not pooping is worrisome... I'm starting to think there is something seriously wrong with his digestive system. Inflammation of the digestive system can also cause dropsy... 

I guess you can soak his pellets in it but don't leave them in there too long. I guess you can use 1tablespoon of pellets. That's a lot of pellets!


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

Maybe that's what it is. Ugh. Dropsy is the worst thing to watch happen and it is making me sad to watch him. But he is still responsive and swimming around the top & bottom of his bowl. As he gets worse, I know you mentioned humane euthanasia. It makes me want to cry thinking of doing this, but I also don't want him to be in pain and suffering. What would you recommend? 

I am going to try to make a paste of kanaplex with his pellets by wetting them. But if he doesn't get better over the weekend, I have a feeling he is only going to get worse. :-( I have tried to take such good care of him, but am guessing these things just happen sometimes. he's only 1 year old and i was hoping to have him for a little bit longer.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Ayarcee, yes sometimes bad things happen to good fish owners. You've really fought a hard battle with him and done well but sometimes it depends on the betta. How old he was before you got him (some pet store bettas are already a year old by the time they reach the store shelves), how badly he was affected by the pet store care, just his general overall health. All of these things play a part in whether or not a betta will recover. But no matter what you can always be sure you did everything you could to try and help him and make him comfortable. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your betta that the Kanaplex starts working soon.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Any updates?


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## Ayarcee (Apr 10, 2011)

thanks for checking in. my little fighter is still kicking - but not faring any better. slightly worse. still has dropsy with the protruding scales. the scales have gotten a bit worse and are sticking out a bit more over the past week.
popeye has not gone away at all either. also it looks like the left side (same side as his popeye) of his stomach is swollen. 

i know he is not going to get any better, but just trying to make him comfortable. he is still eating, swimming (actively when prompted) and putting up a fight when i take him out of the bowl to change the water. he is also still pooping. 

i do daily 100% water changes, keeping his water at 80-82 degrees. using epsom salts still - should i stop that? it doesn't seem to bother him.
also kanaplex.

don't want to give up on him, but he has been slowly declining over the last month. not really sure what to do except for keep doing the same things....just sad to watch. 

any additional advice you might have? don't really know what else i can do at this point. :-(


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## Comet1993 (Jul 28, 2011)

=[ I'm so sorry that your betta's not well.. I hope he pulls through. He seems like a strong little guy.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm really sorry to hear he didn't get better with the treatment, Ayarcee. To me, it seems to say that there is another, untreatable cause behind his dropsy symptoms. Heart disease can also cause dropsy, as can liver disease. :/ I'm not sure what to tell you because I don't have the medical experience DarkMoon does. I'm not sure if another round of Kanaplex would help him or not. Hopefully she will post soon and can tell you. If it seems like he is suffering at any point, then you may need to make a hard choice.  But you won't be alone, we'll be here with you. 

I do know you can continue epsom salts indefinitely so I would recommend you continue them unless DarkMoon says otherwise. 

Hang in there and keep us posted.


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