# help? Depressed betta? parasites?



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I got a betta recently as a gift, its fairly large compared to the frys sold in pet shops. This fellow came with a grey/white chin(internet research tells me its a sign of age) so I thought it was probably previously owned.

I placed him in my gallon jar on my table with a potted anubias, dwarf saggitari
ia a stray piece of java moss and a stray java fern leaf that came when I bought 
my ghost shrimp. He was pretty happy the first few days and such. But now, he just sits and sulks and sometimes randomly does a lap around the jar shaking his head (which led me to think he has parasites). Today when I came home, he was swimming whilst moving only one pectoral fin. I panicked and did a full water change (I usually do a halfwater change everyday ), I gave him a salt bath (1tsp aquarium salt in 1gal plastic tub) for about half an hour. 

Ive added some aquarium salt to the jar (after researching my plants salinity compatibility) and a bag of pure roobis tea for tannins. And placed him back in the jar. Fish is now sleeping near the waters surface but still darted a bit before sleeping.

Jar is unfiltered 1 gal, room is at constant temp of 76-77F, 50% water change everyday, 1ramshorn snail (will probably remove soon to harder waters) 1 ghost shrimp and 1 veiltail 2 plants, 1 huuuuge lucky bamboo, no substrate

Im currently on a budget and fish medication is too expensive for me as of now, Ive done my best to optimize the bettas living conditions and is not sure whether he is succumbing to old age. Im worried about his seemingly lack of energy and parasite(?).

He still eats like a pig( max 4 hikari pellet/day -2 feedings, and the occasional fd blood worm), flares at his own reflection and swims upright. Pretty mild tempered, will jump for food and loves to attck the turkey baster when Im cleaning the bottom.

Any suggestions are most welcome and appreciated, I hope Im just over concerned...natural/household remedy suggestions are loved

Oh before I forget, he did have a bit of a tail rot coming to me and it seems to have grown back until he ripped it again on a seashell i have in the jar w days ago. It seems to be fine and no fin rot so far.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

the bioload in your 1 gallon is too large.

remove the ramshorn as soon as you can as well as the ghost shrimp.

It sounds more like he's stressed from cramped living space and constant water changes. 50% every day is very stressful, which could open him up for disease.

A 1 gallon with just a betta should be changed at least 100% once a week and a 50% in between. there is such a thing as water that is too clean since the betta will not have the correct immune response if it's never experienced bacteria and mild disease in the water.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Thankyou so much, that explains it I guess, he really doesnt like his water changes. I removed the snail, but the shrimp has no where to go...

Im thnking that ammonia might spike if i dont change water everyday and the shrimp will just die....


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Thankyou so much, that explains it I guess, he really doesnt like his water changes. I removed the snail, but the shrimp has no where to go...

Im thnking that ammonia might spike if i dont change water everyday and the shrimp will just die....any suggestions on the parasites, although as of this morning hes stopped flashing and is more accurate in his "food jump". How long do I steep tanin for? Ive had a bit of tea in a seashell and its been in there for an entire night now, neither fish nor shrimp seems to mind.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

He may not have parasites at all. His reaction could have been purely out of stress and discomfort.

For now, just let him be with less water changes so he can recover from the stress. If he's still displaying the head twitching after a few days have passed, then look into a method of treatment.

Often clean water is enough to boost the immune system into taking care of the issue.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Should I put him in a jar with no plants? I got a tube a while ago to siphon out the water, it has yet to arrive... would that make water changes less stressful for him, Im so paranoid, the only fish we used to have were 5 or 6 gold fishes we threw in a large pot with a lily plant and duck weed (around 50 gals?) and they were fine on their own, living off whatever was growing inside that pot and such. My grandparents looked after it and almost never made any water changes. They thrived in that pot and the largest one got pretty big before a kingfisher decided to make a tasty meal out of him....


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

If you have nowhere for the ghost shrimp, then you can keep them together for now.

Definitely use the hose to siphon out the water. You can do 3 50% changes for the week and still be ok.

Any vegetation in the tank will help your betta feel more secure.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Got home and took the snail out, thanks for all the great advice Pataflafla! Betta rewarded me with a big bubble nest under one of the leaves today when I got home =D He's still twitching from time to time so I'm going to keep an eye out, I cant wait till pay day so I can get some meds in hand. i'll keep you updated


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

image of fish in question. his fins has been droopy like that since day 1... Im not sure how normal it is


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

He's probably just a little bit cold and still a tiny bit stressed. Some time to settle in and relax should have him flaring up more.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Gah, I think he has velvet AND ich... i see little white spots bext to his mouth and a greyish bit on his face that sort of shines when i put a lamp to it... the photo was too hard to take trying to hold te table lamp
AND the camera.... what should I do now? I dont get paid util next week...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

A white semi circle has also appeared above his eyes, and he yawns alot, I am so worried... someone help...


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Velvet does not appear as grey. It's a gold dust covering slightly finer than ick. I don't think he has it at all.

Ick might be a possibility, but you'd still need to get a heater for effective and quick treatment and quarantine either him or the shrimp since the shrimp cannot handle the medication or alternative treatment.

Ick is only vulnerable when it's free swimming in the water, which is after the parents have dropped off the fish, reproduced, and the eggs hatched. To treat in room temperature water instead of 80 degrees can take up to 2 weeks or more.

The white spot can be natural coloring. I have a male with a black face that has 1 white spot that never goes away. It looks exactly like ick, but he's been treated for it before and displays no other signs of having the parasite.

The white circles around his eyes can also be natural. they seem to be more common or easier to see in bettas with darker faces. My boy with the black face has white rings around his eyes as well.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Its just that I dont remember seeing it there before...I had to take the shrimp out any way, since I dont think it can stand not having a daily water change ( it was acting all lethargic and stuff). it's now in a 1/4 gallon glass drinking bottle by itself. Ive upped the heating in the house to 80F and hopefully that will help the poor fish a bit, He seems to be fine with the salt, I took him out of the jar with plants and plan to keep him in a plastic 1gal tub so he has less things to rub on and hurt himself...
I guess its wait a week and see...Im so scared of having it die on me, Im willing to adopt it off to someone who is more knowlegeable about these creatures, but here in NYC they're really a dime a dozen.  poor fishy and me


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Im going to keep updating as I would deftinately love some more help, and een if no one helps... oh well this can be a diary or a reference down the line... the betta is doing much better after I put him in a 1 gal plastic jar yesterday and a small tea bag of roobis. Covered the entire thing with a brown paper bag.

Bubble nest was there when I came home, fed him 2 pellets in the morning and 1pellet +2 blood worms at night. his fins are no longer clamped and the small hole in it has shrunk. The white thing on his face seems a little bigger so Im going to try betta revive(no breakfast or lunch for me tomorrow!) to see if it will help clear it up. temperature in the house is now averaging at 80F. 

Poured him into a small clear lunch box so I can make a water change in the larger jar. will put him back when temperature averages out. was gifted a bottle of stress coat after sharing the sory of the poor fish with a good friend, added that in instead of the usual tap conditioner. 

Let's hope this fellow recovers and live a long happy life...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Did notice clear fin regrowth where he had a small rot previously


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

day 2 Update, bought some betta revive.

Did another 100% (or is it 99%?) water change, he seems to not mind the water changes now. Obediently sitting in his corner until ive poured out all but enough for him to sit in a corner. then i'd pour him into the waiting tub before putting him back into the changed tank.

Dosing him at close to 3tsp/gal salt, and small bag of roobis tea as usual, conditioned with stress coat and a little aqeon water conditioner.

The ich seems to have dropped off, Im still keeping him covered the majority if the time since He seems to have a little velvet near his gills. better safe than sorry right? hes in around 0.6 gals of water right now, did all the math and added 5 drops of betta revive. Waters a nice green color since im still doing the roobis tea for tannins. He has stopped flashing and has de clamped himself, his fins are all nice and spread out! Fin regrowth is continuing on his tail , the hole has vanished. He does seem a little annoyed at being in a bare tank, but is other wise swimming around quite happily. 

When I got him he had these curls in his fins which i eventually found out was from bad water, but they're so cute, ive come to love the little swirly curls. 

Used the household thermometer to stir up a little current for his daily exercise as well as making him jump for his two nightly pellets.

There is still the mystery pale spots on his face, he has two white dots that looks like noses, too which im not sure about, hopefully the betta revive will help defeat these symptoms. 

If anyone is wondering why I havent named him yet, I dont think I will ever name him. Animals I name seem to just die, unfortunately he'll forever be the veiltail royal blue betta fish or something along thise lines.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

And heres the updated image


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

I hope your fishy feels better soon. If it helps, I just wanted to say good on you for caring about his well-being as you do. 

My daughter's betta has a permanent pale patch on his face, which isn't very visible unless he's stressy in which case it goes really white. He also had several brilliant blue spots which didn't appear until he'd settled in. Sid was also very droopy (a veiltail like your boy) when I got him - a heater made all the difference, but even then it took him a while to settle in. Now he's Mister Scary Ninja Fish, and zooms around like maniac, lol.

3 tps of salt per gallon seems like an awful lot? I had to cut Sid from 1 tsp to 1/2 tsp per gallon because it was visibly stressing him at day 2. Now the ich spots have dropped off, and if you're cleaning his tank thoroughly every day to get rid of whatever's dropped off of him, perhaps you could cut it back a bit? Is there a set time you were recommended to use 3tsps? 

I love that you exercise him - I do similar things for Sid, and he gets really excited at 'playtime'. I really hope he is well soon and you and your fish can relax together. Good luck with everything!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Aus! might you from australia? or austria? or is that just an arbitrary name?  Im glad someone replied! I thought I was talking to myself, and going to be all lonely.

The pale spots unfortunately when I shine a lamp( yes a lamp, since i dont have flashlights ) are shiny and looks like copper, so infortunately its velvet, it seems to have gotten worse since O last saw it so Im cutting off all light... a white bit on his nose seems a bit bigger today so Im going to keep a vigilant eye out fir that one too . 

About the 3tsp/gal, its more like 1.5tsp/0.6gal. I was a little worried at first too. I swear I was staring at him for an entire hour, but since then he's stopped scratching, destressed and seems genuinely happy, Im going to take him off salt in 7more days just to complete the treatment. this morning there was the biggest bunble nest ever! he took up all 4 sides of my container, I felt like he was tryig to cover the whole surface area there. =D I think Im gonna reward him with a nice big fd blood worm

I never worried about heating since the temperature in basement i live in is rock steady in winter, I dont know what Im going to do in summer thiugh , are tere aircons made for aquariums? 

But I swear after this guy reaches the end of his (hopefully long long long) lifespan, Im never going to have another fish ever again


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## PaintingPintos (Dec 27, 2011)

I was just wondering....
A grey chin meens age? I've had Omelette for 3 months now, and his chin/chest have always been white/silver... he's OLD?!?! He's so little though.... what are other signs of age?


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Hi Aus! might you from australia? or austria? or is that just an arbitrary name?  Im glad someone replied! I thought I was talking to myself, and going to be all lonely.
> 
> The pale spots unfortunately when I shine a lamp( yes a lamp, since i dont have flashlights ) are shiny and looks like copper, so infortunately its velvet, it seems to have gotten worse since O last saw it so Im cutting off all light... a white bit on his nose seems a bit bigger today so Im going to keep a vigilant eye out fir that one too .
> 
> ...



Yup, Australia!  

And ouch, velvet, poor fish. Sid loves the salt - maybe he's just more sensitive to the larger doses - and he's bubblenested, too, and has shown all kinds of improvements in his fins. He had ich a couple weeks back, but I hit that with Protozin and it ran screaming, lol. I'm not using meds in a hurry again, though, as I have bit of faith in salt treatment now. I hope your fish gets well soon and it's cool that your basement stays so warm. And you know - you CAN make aircon for fishtanks, I was just reading about it today - wayyyy to complex for me, though. :B

And pfffft, you'll have another one. They swim into your blood when you're not looking. :lol:

I also don't think grey chins are always a sign of age? My daughter's betta is only a babyfish and has pale under there at times..


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Age? I think thats when your fish starts to gradually lose its color,. become slower, flare less, and when they have diseases their immune systems are so weak they wont get better no matter what you do, even if its just a simple fin rot

Ive heard of bettas living 7 years, which is why Ive stopped trying to assume that my fish's problems are due to old age 


Oh and Im australian too! Chinese Aussie, studying in NYC originally came from Sydney. I was wondering if there were any Aussies on here 

for the aircon... instead of ttying to build an aircon for a jar, I think this summer i'll just bring in the aircon when it gets too hot and pay the landlord the extra $30/mo.  

I didnt use med on The fish's ich since I read that it can be cured with temperature and water changes, but velvet i wasnt so sure about. need to read up more on medication. Ive always kept him with a bag of roobis tea which he looooves. I ordered IAL a while ago, but seeing it was shipped from singapore its taking its sweet time arriving.

What color's your fish Aus?


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Whee, another Aussie! You're a long way from home! What're you studying? 

I'm in soggy old Melbourne, you know - the place with all the culture. :tongue:

No idea about velvet/meds.. though thanks for the reminder to look it up, just in case. My fish Sid is a pretty bog-standard red VT with blue glitter on his body. I like the VT's best, though, there's just something about them. He's also a ninja. *nodnod* 

I can't wait to get some IAL. I spent my childhood around riverlands and dark water by the tree roots was always my favourite thing to poke around in, for frogs and baby fish and all sorts of critters. It's kind of mysterious.. :-D and it's good for the bettas, to boot. win/win! Lots of oaks around here - but pesticides worry me, so no gathering leaves.

Saw a beautiful dark water tank not long ago, with a B. macrostoma living in it. It made me want one exactly like it. Including the macro, lol. They have the most wonderful cranky faces.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

May I ask if you slept at all last night?  since you seem to be replying in the early ams and all. 

studying Graphic design at the Fashion institute of Technology (cheap state school great professors), Went to Sydney Uni before that for architecture but found it to be meh and came here half way through the course, glad i did

Melbourne is great! Ive been there plenty of times, the only thing that annoys me down there is how indecisive the weather is. And Brisbane is way to hot. Think I'll stick to good old sydney in the future .

I totally under stand the feeling of goiong knee deep in creeks and catching tadpoles. There was a nice old creek near our house, I used to catch a jar of tadpoles( or steal a bunch of eggs) and release them again when they've turned into frogs again, too bad I never caught any fish


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

aokashi said:


> May I ask if you slept at all last night?  since you seem to be replying in the early ams and all.


Nope. :lol:

Chronic insomnia. Plus, I was drawing and reading here, and replying.. I like being up when the world is asleep. The only bit that sucks is making it through the next day.. but worth it!



> studying Graphic design at the Fashion institute of Technology (cheap state school great professors), Went to Sydney Uni before that for architecture but found it to be meh and came here half way through the course, glad i did
> 
> Melbourne is great! Ive been there plenty of times, the only thing that annoys me down there is how indecisive the weather is. And Brisbane is way to hot. Think I'll stick to good old sydney in the future .


Awesome! Lucky you, getting to travel and live abroad. And ooh - fashion institute? What career do you have your heart set on?



> I totally under stand the feeling of goiong knee deep in creeks and catching tadpoles. There was a nice old creek near our house, I used to catch a jar of tadpoles( or steal a bunch of eggs) and release them again when they've turned into frogs again, too bad I never caught any fish


What about yabbies? LOL. Omg, I loved those things as a kid, kept some for years in a fish tank in the back yard. Little fish, too, wild-caught, though I let those go after watching them a while. Our place was crawling in every kind of native life (including the 9-ft tiger snake that trapped me in the outside loo...oi) , so I had like, 1000 pets, it was brilliant. The tadpole jars - I just never grew out of those. Had one a few years back, lol.

Sydney's a nice place to visit... too many weirdos for me, tho :tease:


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Sorry for the absence! I was trying to get a project done for my monday class. Fish update day 4: ( day 3 was pretty much like day two, no visible sugn of ich, but there deftinately is some velvet still there)

Today the velet patch seems to have shrunk a bit, not sure , the guy wont stay still enough for me to look closely. he's constantly battling against the wall of the plastic lunch box, looks super bored though, Im thinking of rummaging around for something he can atleast hide in, day 4 same formular, same old super excited betta, I played the donkey with a carrot trick on him today and led him around in circle with a betta pellet hovering eer so slightly out of his reach, daily exercises? done.  preparing eater for the fish now, Im really gettin tired of changing his water everday, but then it's probably cos I need some extra sleep tonight to make up for those lost the previous day....

Aus you still there? ur tiger snake reminded me of the time me and the neighbors kids saw a brown snake near the bush in our back yard and booyyyy did we run, didnt stop fill we were saftely behind manmade walls. And I dont think I ever took an interest in yabbies, I always thought of them as baby prawns, lol. I always wondered whether people kept them to be eaten somewhere down the line


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Photos and video update


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/aoshiryu/ff3bc4ae.mp4

chase the thermometer for food video!








OMG! poop!










"I refusr to remain still for even a split second photo"


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh that reminds me, got a story to share, went into petco and saw a couple with two bettas, they bought one of those mini half gallon (less?) divider tanks for the two bettas, I didnt know what to say oO, why does petco even sell these, "where the healthy animals go?" yeahhhh righhhhhhttt


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Clearest picture I have of him yet. white spots are air bubbles

Todays update! 
Pretty much same as yesterday, except he now has his own pot to play hide and seek in, velvets still there...4 more days till hes off salt and meds! schools getting busy, might adopt him off to a friend who is graduating.
thinkin of putting a lid on his jar to up the temperture a bit.


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