# Understanding Betta fins and tank size



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Lots of different ways to keep this species correctly....so true, lots of information out there...some true, some myths and some based on viewing this awesome creature as a human with feelings and emotions.......as much as we would like it.....a fish just doesn't have the ability to thinks and feel the way we do.....their brain is not wired that way.......that said.....

By understanding the anatomy, physiology and behavior of the fish we keep can help us understand proper care to meet needs

The Betta splendens is a special fish-by that I mean-its man-made-with years of selective breeding to create long flowing colorful fins......the fins are abnormally long and heavy-nothing like what it came from and so care is going to be much different than it will be with its short fin cousin....many people forget this and with the good intention they have...end up with a sick betta with neurotic behaviors and tattered ugly fins in a short time......

Because of these abnormally long fins that can be really heavy and delicate they are kept in small containers with no water movement....as cruel as some may think this is......this is needed to maintain the long flowing fins......

Most males are placed in a small container by the time they are 2 months of age-this is to encourage fin growth and often the reason we want a Betta...the long fins......along with good nutrition and quality water in these small containers-usually by the time they are 6-8 months old-fins are nearly 80% grown and they are ready to be sold.....

Understand-this long fin male has been in a small container for nearly 8 months-it has long heavy fins-due to space it also has limited muscle mass.....Now the Betta is brought home and feeling sorry for the Betta being in such a small container we toss it in a large volume of water with a filter.......soon we start to see either tattered fins, neurotic behaviors like tail biting, glass surfing, depression...etc.......

Its not that a long heavy fin male can't be placed in a large container of water....they can......and some male can go from the temporary cup to a large tank without any issue.....but some can't...or at least right away....sometimes-some need to be moved in steps.......temporary cup to 1gal-then 2gal-5gal...etc......get the picture.......and some may never be able to keep their long fins in anything larger than a 1gal container or be able to tolerate a filter/water movement without being stressed....when stressed-this can compromise the immune response and this is when you see-Ich, fin rot, lethargy, clamp fins, hiding, poor appetite...etc......sometimes it will resolve on it own and other times it doesn't......

Think of it like......swimming with a 50 pound weight strapped on your back....once you build strength and muscle you can do it much easier....

The flag flapping in the wind......this is what happens to the long delicate fins that are used in a lot of space and water movement......until they toughen up...some do and some don't......this can be related to genetic, age, health, nutrition...etc......

This is just a few reasons why you see/hear about so many different tank size requirement for this species......

Irregardless of tank size.....a Betta can be neglected in a 10gal tank just as they can be neglected in a small tank.......this falls on the hobbyist......

To be a good keeper of fish you must first be a good keeper of water and understand how they interact.....

Bettas don't need large spaces or filters...they do need quality water of tropical temps...

Bettas don't create as much waste and ammonia as some may think...

Starting your Betta in a 1gal container without a filter making twice weekly water changes of 1-50% and 1-100% will maintain water quality, fin health, help build antibodies and a strong immune response, provided that the fish is not over feed and uneaten food is removed within a reasonable time.....

Once the Betta is doing well in the 1gal-then move it to a larger tank in steps to his tolerance or keep it in the 1gal-2gal unfiltered tank.....the longer the fins the less problems you will have by keeping them in smaller containers as long as you provide proper care and nutrition....

Yes, fish like to swim....but think back to that 50 pound weight strapped on your back and remember this is a man-made fish with special needs......if your Betta is stressed, depressed, tail biting, glass surfing, stops eating, can't hold its fins, chronic fin problems etc..... in that 5-10gal filtered tank....try a unfiltered smaller tank.......

Nutrition is often not taken into account and the cheapest food is fed......with a Betta....you need to find the very best quality of several different kinds of foods...pellets, flakes, frozen, freeze dried and live.....they don't have to be Betta specific foods....you do want to find food with the first few ingredients that are fish/seafood either whole or meal....feed small frequent meals....what one food is missing the other food may have........

Nitrogen cycle-you can't establish the nitrogen cycle with out filtration and the Betta doesn't really need filtration.....yes, filtration and the nitrogen cycle will make water change needs easier for the hobbyist...but not so much for the Betta......and due to the limited surface area in small tanks the nitrogen cycle isn't that stable anyway and you still need to make twice weekly water changes to maintain water quality.......

Live plants can be the answer provided that you have the proper lights to support the plants.....thats another chapter........

By understanding the Betta and its long heavy fins.......tank size, filtration, water quality, nutrition...etc......you can maintain those long fins many of us love and one of the reason we keep them for a very long time......

Enjoy....thats what its all about.......


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## CoverMeInClay (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for that OFL, a lot of good info!


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

great read OFL


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks OFL love all your info


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## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

You are so wise. :notworthy:


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I totally agree with all that you said, as I have definitely noticed tattered fins in larger spaces with filters vs my 1 gal jars.

I know how easy it is to put human emotion on bettas - heck I do it without even really wanting to! I'm still depressed over Gumbo's passing (fish in AV) but it is good to remember all that you have written here. 

Bettas really don't need as much as we think - I have gone from the newbie that didn't know better, housing bettas in cups, to reading and putting them in 5 gal tanks to themselves, lap of luxury. But when I started noticing no matter how clean the water is (even every other day water changes) that the fins were tattered and torn - I started to keep them in smaller spaces with less water movement and have seen wonderful results.

The fry I am raising now, they get water changes in 1 gallon containers every 3 days. You can not tell me these fry are not VERY strong and healthy. Ask those who have received them from me. Come look in my fish room. They are very robust. 

Look at ANY seirous betta breeders stock - Thai breeders, Karen MacAuley, OFL - every single fish they produce are kept in smaller condtions but pristine water and the fish are AMAZING. Those Aquabid fish we covet so much, when they are old enough for fighting they are put in beer bottles or the like to grow out.

If this is not stickied it should be.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

my first betta ever, Zach, started his life with me in a half gallon bowl, with water changes only when it turned brown and stunk. then, he was upgraded to a one gallon with NO water changes, because i thought the bubbler cleaned the water for me. THEN, he spent his last two years in a 10 gallon, with a filter without a baffle.

all through his 4 years with me, he was active and healthy. no tattered fins, no ick, velvet, nothing. 

even now, my niece's betta, King Steve, FLOURISHED in the 10 gallon. his fins grew HUGE for a crowntail, and he darkened in color. he was active and happy in it, happier than he is in the 1 gallon he lives in now.

the main reason people suggest larger tanks for bettas, is it's harder to heat a one gallon without the use of a light being on all the time. that, and they truly do love the room. Cup's fins didn't grow, until i put him in the 2 gallon he lived his life in. Ichi was happier in his 2 gallon, than the 1.5 i had him in. my CT female, Freya, LOVED her 2 gallon tank, a big upgrade from the half gallon bowl she was in at first.

on another betta forum, i learned that, with bettas, longer is better than wider. nothing taller than a foot is suggested, so the 20 long is better than the 20 tall. i've never had issues with bettas in larger tanks. as long as you baffle the filter, its' fine. i again point to King Steve. he loved the 10 gallon, and he grew his fins huge while living in it.

though, i must agree, that a gallon is okay, as long as you keep up with the water changes. Lulu loves her one gallon, and hates anything else.


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## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Great info!


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

Great post. thank you. This helps a lot. Especially when it comes to my Thai betta Joey and why he bit his fins after I moved him into a larger tank. I don't feel guilty for having my guys in 2.5 and 3 gal tanks


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I posted this on FB, so forgive me if you're read it 

it all depends on an individual fish when it comes down to it. for the most part, 75% of my bettas do better in one gallon jars. but of course, I know to do very frequent water changes. i have boys in a divided 10 gallon and the ends of their tails are tattered, every one of them. they do not get to each other and there is nothing in their sections to harm them.you have to gain experience and decide for yourself. and for me, I pretty much agree with OFL

And also on heating - I think the issue also boils down to breeder vs hobbyist. A breeder usually has a dedicated room warm enough to heat the water. Which I do. All my betta jars are in the room I'm in now, which is very warm. 80+ and the water stays anywhere from 77-79, so it's perfect. In the winter I'll have to add a space heater though.

If you are an experienced hobbyist that knows what you're doing, then you can safely and effectively keep them in the smaller containers (at least a gal). For newbies that don't know better and will misinterpret what OFL wrote, it may be better to suggest 5 gallons, filtered and heated.


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## thePWNISHER (Jun 18, 2011)

I think this is a wonderful post. It should be merged with the "Your first day" thread since they go hand in hand. It is a general background of heaps of info about what you are getting into when you purchase your first fish. I've had my first betta only a number of weeks but from the resources and people on this site I've felt like I've had a fish for years the entire time and he has been doing great. Thanks again to the community for all your advice and sharing your knowledge and experience with us all.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I dont think they need to be merged, but thanks.

I express my opinions on size in the thread, and I dont completely agree with everything in this one. I think its okay unmerged.


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## newf (May 10, 2009)

I think it was all very well said with great information for all levels of experience. Thank you for taking the time to type that up for me to be able to read and gain more experience from.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

I'm sorry, as sweet as this post may seem, I have to disagree on MANY points.

Judging from reading this entire post, it appears to me that you care nothing for the enrichment of a betta's life and only for their appearance. As per these selected quotes:



Oldfishlady said:


> Because of these abnormally long fins that can be really heavy and delicate they are kept in small containers with no water movement....as cruel as some may think this is......this is needed to maintain the long flowing fins.





Oldfishlady said:


> Most males are placed in a small container by the time they are 2 months of age-this is to encourage fin growth and often the reason we want a Betta...the long fins.


Plus many other instances of just "wanting pretty fins" throughout the article.

Also your "famous" quote of:


Oldfishlady said:


> To be a good keeper of fish you must first be a good keeper of water and understand how they interact.


As a chemist, I have to wholeheartedly disagree about your stance on 1 gallon or 2 gallon amounts of water being "good enough". It is good enough and plenty for an experienced aquarist or an experienced breeder, but almost impossible for a beginner.

If I were to pour a bottle of poison into a koi pond versus the same bottle of poison into the Atlantic ocean, which do you think would die first? If anything, the Atlantic ocean would just laugh in my face.

Most experienced aquarists recommend LARGER tanks for beginners because of the ease of care. One slip up in a water change or too much food or overstocking will not be a major problem that will kill your fish instantly. Larger tanks, due to their volume in size, tend to dilute the problem so a beginner can easily remedy the problem once it arises. However if this is done in a smaller tank, casualties can be VERY quick and VERY high due to the small volume of water and frequent water changes.

HOW many people in the disease thread have less than 5 gallon tanks? Quite a few, because it is difficult to keep water safe/sanitary/whatever in smaller, quickly changing conditions.

In response to the betta keeping side of tank sizes, I'm not asking people to spend an exorbitant amount of money to buy some sort of 1000 gallon tank with all the latest whizbangs. A good starter size for a betta owner would be 5 gallons with or without a filter. Not only is it a more enriching environment for your betta, but it will give you a chance to learn additional things about fish keeping, such as cycling your tank (with a filter). Having your betta in some random 1 Gallon is like having some sort of high needs plant. Just change the water once a day and walk away.


As for the neurotic behaviour and other behavioural problems with betta in larger tanks, I personally think it comes down to two things:

1) If they were bred and held into jars since birth, that's what they're used to and comfortable with -- purely because they don't know any better. It's like randomly shoving a homeless person into a mansion, how do you think they will react? Some will go BERSERK and run around the house in joy, some will probably lose their minds and some will probably still live in their hobo-ish ways ad camp out in the kitchen or something.

2) Temperament of your betta: My female, Meilin does not give a darn where she is held, either 3 inches of water or 1000000 gallons. Mali on the other hand, I had to release him from quarantine early because he hated his one gallon, and looked like he was dying every few minutes. He's in a 2.5 sharing with Skittles (it's more 2 now, I moved the divider a bit) and he's full of UNBOUNDING JOY~

Skittles arrived to my home having wrecked his tail on the flight. He's in the other half of a 5 gallon and is currently building his first bubble nest, even to the point of digging up some of his baby plants to use as scaffolding. Seems pretty happy to me. He's a Halfmoon Doubletail and he moves like a dancer.


Final words:

Having torn fins doesn't mean your fish is going to be super unhappy, unless of course it is fin rot or some disease. Having "pretty fins" is not all I care about in a betta. I would rather keep the ugliest betta in the world with the most shredded fins possible HAPPY in a nice tank they can ENJOY; instead of keeping a gorgeous fish on a 1 gallon pedestal in hopes it will never rip it's pretty pretty fins.

The main message here should be that you build your OWN personal experience with your fish. Do you want to know WHY there are so many stories of people who have 6 year old bettas in tiny bowls? Or WHY our pampered fish die? and more importantly VICE VERSA?


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## dragonflie (Aug 5, 2011)

Agreed with bahamut on most points.

Now for my own 2cents, I must say...I have seen more differences in opinion on husbandry concerning bettas more than any other fish I've kept so far. And they all seem so different in personality that I'd have to say it makes them probably some of the more challenging fish to keep, which is certainly the opposite than how they are generally thought to be.  

Quantified for a second: 

-some thrive in community settings, some won't tolerate even a tiny pest snail.

-some get constipated easily, some can eat like a pig and never grow a belly.

-some seem to prefer smaller tanks (while I admit I believe this is a minority, though just my opinion), some love larger ones

-some are rather lazy and "chill," and some zoom around all day begging for food

-some get stressed easily and love to nip off their own fins, while others seem to be able to handle major changes in environment with fascination, almost.

-some seem to enjoy being in a divided tank and having a neighbor to flare at; and others seem to only want to have anything to do with their human helpers.

And the list goes on, really. Which is why I think it's very hard for anyone to come up with any single list of circumstances that will apply to all bettas; because I don't think such a list exists. The challenge in betta keeping is getting to know your fish, and learning what he or she prefers, and what will make him or her happy.  

So this is why I say, "beginner fish? No way!" I've seen such a large spectrum of personality in the several bettas I've kept; they all had unique nuances to their personalities and dietary needs, that the only thing I can say with confidence that was the same? They all needed clean water.


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## thePWNISHER (Jun 18, 2011)

@Pew, Other than the water change params, it nothing disagrees with your post as well as the fact that this is more of a how to watch the behavioral signs which yours does not address as clearly. Your post is the most amazing thing for someone who has never kept fish to read. This is more of an advanced theory on temperment and adjusting to your own betta's behaviour.

@Bahamut, Magnification of chemical imbalances are always an issue but if bettas can make it in the cup at the store with the neglectful chain LPS employee. (well the half a dozen I've been to most are that way) I think anything larger would allow room for error made by someone who is willing to invest more effort. Any tank realistically that is going through a 100% change at any point no matter what the size will have the same problems since each change the ecosystem is hitting the reset button and you have to hope the living conditions are similar if not identical to what they were before the change. The caution that was given was that if you have a smaller tank then obviously there is less room for error but I believe the purpose of the original post was adjusting to temperment, not trapping your betta in a 1 gallon bowl becuase you think it dislikes too much space. its more giving an explanation that is very similar to your final words. 

Final thoughts: Sometimes your betta doesn't like the set up you have for it so be flexible. I think that echoes what people are trying to say.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

@pwnisher- ....wait...what? O__o; 
I didn't quite understand what you said there...


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm also confuzzled LOL


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

> To be a good keeper of fish you *must first be a good keeper of water* and understand how they interact.....


IMO this is the key to good husbandry(?) It doesn't matter how big or small the tank is, As long as you know how to keep the water in good condition. I've seen them kept in itty bitty cups with no issues. And others kept in 20g filtered/cycled become lethargic. As fish who has lived in such condition all its life, it would still be happy in small cups (though I agree bigger is better).

OFL isn't saying a big tank is bad. She is just saying that bettas from small cups needs to gain more muscles before it can freely carry that 50 pound extra weight. Though they can gain muscles in the big tank, but it would be safer to slowly upgrade their tank size.

For some reason I do not believe in massive WC for smaller tanks (1g or less). Changing 50-100% daily is no guarantee that they will remain healthy. Then again I don't understand my water because I've seen others using the same water source (tap - in my area) keep their bettas healthy in cups with weekly 100% wc. But I will advise massive wc because it seems more logical.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I agree with indjo, Ofl isn't saying keep your bettas in tiny containers, she's saying let them get used to bigger sizes slowly. Of course, each betta is different, some like huge spaces, some don't. But this was a good read, it answers the question why so many bettas that were totally normal, get weird, skittish or lethargic when brought home and put in big tanks.. I unconsciously end up doing this.. Get betta put him in 1/2 gallon for a week, move to 1 gallon for another week or two and then finally into a 2.5.. It's not very big but all my babies are comfortable, that's all I need.


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## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

A lot of people are missing the larger point. There are some members who are cut-throat when it comes to tank size. I'm sure everyone here will agree that the 0.5gal betta 'tanks' are too small for any fish. But then there are the members who act like anything smaller than 10gal is torture. Bigger is not always better since bigger tanks need more powerful filters. More powerful filters lead to fin damage, stress, and the killing the fish. I'm pretty sure we've all seen fish who were killed by a petstore one-sizes-'fits'-all filter. 

Therefore, 2.5-5gal is a good size in my opinion. The filters for 2.5-5gal tanks are gentle so the fish’s fins should stay healthy and not the rest of the fish should remain healthy as well. I personally had my current fish in 1gal tanks for about 2 years because I just didn't have space for them. Once I added gravel, filter, heater, a plant, a castle to hide in, and thermometer the tank was extremely cramped. The 6.6gal Petco bookshelf tank that can easily hold 5gal of waters with tons of decorations are extremely roomy and can handle a better filter and heater. Can fish be alone in 10gal tanks without freaking out? Yes. I just think some people go overboard or refuse to step down even if a fish is in distress. 

I also practice what I preach. I recently upgraded from 1gal to 5gal tank set ups. When Luigi was introduced to his tank he immediately started investigating. He was bopping things with his nose, finding new hiding spots, checking out the sand (I was using gravel before) and swimming around the plants. Unfortunately, Snowy was the complete opposite. He lost some of his color, looked for the tightest corner he could find, and hide for about an hour. I thought I would have to remove him from the tank and put him back in his old 1gal tank. But he warmed up to his new home and had his color back by morning. So, it really does depend on the fish in the end. I wouldn't have thought of the new home as a failure if Snowy didn't adjust over night. I would have simply re-set up his 1gal and used the 5gal for a new fish. 

That's why I agree with OFL. Luigi loved swimming in 5gal from day one so I'm glad I upgraded his set up. Snowy was freaked by the bigger tank and I wouldn't have hesitated to put him back in the tank HE preferred if he didn't grow to love his new home. In fact, I'm still monitoring Snowy until he has been in there for 2 weeks with no signs of stress, illness, or personality changes. Luigi is a regular betta so he just has the basic and lightest fin style. So it didn't surprise me that Snowy, a Crown Tail, would have a different reaction to the tank since he has different fins. Luigi had clumpy fins in his 1 gallon but that problem stopped in the 5 gallon upgrade. If I notice anything wrong with Snowy's fins or if he seemed to be continued (or suddenly becomes restressed) by the extra room, He's back in the 1 gallon. It doesn't matter that I tossed some money out the window for a snubbed tank. In the end, the tank should be best for the individual fish even if that tank’s size goes against the norm or the owner's taste in tanks.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

If it makes any difference to you or your fish, the common 2.5 gallon glass tank holds only 2.2 gallons. 
(12in x 6in x 8in / 261 = 2.2g) And that's full up to the brim. 

If you leave an inch and a half overhead, like I do. Your fish is living in 1.8 gallons.

A common spec 5.5 gallon tank (16in x 8in x 10in) maths out to 4.9g brimfull. With inch and a half overhead, that's 4.2g .


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

@YLG and Amy: Yeah I don't know what they were trying to say, lol

@pwnisher: Pease clarify? :S

@Indjo, Fighter: My point was basically that it is easier to keep healthy water in a larger space because the changes will be less sudden. Considering the number of beginners on here, I would personally call it malpractice to allow a total beginner (to fish, not just betta) to give them such a small tank to care for, where problems can arise suddenly and strongly, giving cause to fatalities.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

That is true... Easier to mess up in a small tank than a big one. 
I guess people look at big tanks and are intimidated by them so they prefer smaller ones. :/


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

While I respect and welcome others opinions based on your personal experiences, experiments and observations....

Please be respectful of others point of view and stay on topic as it relates to the intentions of the post


By making this a war/fight about tank size....indicates that perhaps you missed the point or failed to read/understand the first post and the intentions behind it.....


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## DNangel (Aug 11, 2011)

Wow! This is super grreat!  thanx for the info :angel: i think you probably saved my HM's fins and saved me money  LOL i was gonna get a filter for a 3.5 gal. Anyways again thanx! this is an awesome post, i cant get over how amazing this was .


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I for one, found OFL's post an interesting read, and was in agreement with 95% of it. I agree that because of human intervention, some bettas may be better off in less than ideal sized containers. Selectively breeding for huge caudal spreads and 'Dumbo' pectoral fins, is creating fish that aren't physically able to cope in larger tanks. 

It isn't about water chemistry or cruelty. Rather it's about understanding that today's domesticated splendens have become so far removed from their wild cousins as we have from apes.

I've always wondered why tailbiting never seems as prevalent amongst breeders as it does amongst pet owners. Some of those fish bred and imported from Thailand have enormous caudal spreads, and yet they only seem to develop into biters after purchase. 

No one is going to argue that those fish aren't in peak health, and yet the containers they are housed in are often much smaller than this forum's ideal. That certainly says something for those who condemn such practices as cruel.


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## thePWNISHER (Jun 18, 2011)

thePWNISHER said:


> @Pew, Other than the water change params, it nothing disagrees with your post as well as the fact that this is more of a how to watch the behavioral signs which yours does not address as clearly. Your post is the most amazing thing for someone who has never kept fish to read. This is more of an advanced theory on temperment and adjusting to your own betta's behaviour.
> 
> @Bahamut, Magnification of chemical imbalances are always an issue but if bettas can make it in the cup at the store with the neglectful chain LPS employee. (well the half a dozen I've been to most are that way) I think anything larger would allow room for error made by someone who is willing to invest more effort. Any tank realistically that is going through a 100% change at any point no matter what the size will have the same problems since each change the ecosystem is hitting the reset button and you have to hope the living conditions are similar if not identical to what they were before the change. The caution that was given was that if you have a smaller tank then obviously there is less room for error but I believe the purpose of the original post was adjusting to temperment, not trapping your betta in a 1 gallon bowl becuase you think it dislikes too much space. its more giving an explanation that is very similar to your final words.
> 
> Final thoughts: Sometimes your betta doesn't like the set up you have for it so be flexible. I think that echoes what people are trying to say.



Okay, Since lots of people are like "what?" I'll try again:

-Any tank with no filter having 100% water changes will have the chance of errors made by the fish owner each water change.

- The purpose of the main post was to adjust to your fishes temperament which you disagreed with but then in your post you agreed with it since you pointed out how you re-homed some of your bettas. So I was more or less just wondering why you were against an opinion when in your post you supported it.

At least it came across that way to me. Maybe i missed something.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I for one, found OFL's post an interesting read, and was in agreement with 95% of it. I agree that because of human intervention, some bettas may be better off in less than ideal sized containers. Selectively breeding for huge caudal spreads and 'Dumbo' pectoral fins, is creating fish that aren't physically able to cope in larger tanks.
> 
> It isn't about water chemistry or cruelty. Rather it's about understanding that today's domesticated splendens have become so far removed from their wild cousins as we have from apes.
> 
> ...



i've seen breeders who still have issues with tailbiting. it's still not totally understood, and may be a result of the selective breeding that was done to produce such large, beautiful fins. my two Deltas are a good example of that. Dante only bit his tail out of boredom. giving him lots of plants, and changing around the decor after every water change stopped that. Ichi, only tail bites if his water quality slips, or if he's in view of another male that's not Theo. otherwise, neither of them bit. yet, some people have HMs in smaller tanks, and they still tail bite. i think being in larger tanks DOES play a part in it, but only to an extent. if the tank is too large for an HM(say... 10 or more gallons), it may happen. but, it depends on the fish. some bettas enjoy larger tanks, some don't. i have a short fin Plakat, Lulu, who hates larger tanks, despite being a larger girl herself. she ENJOYS the confines of her one gallon, and i'm okay with that. but, my yellow boy, Gackt, enjoyed being in his section of a 10 gallon. the current and taller space didn't bother him at all. each betta's different, and we shouldn't stick to the "larger fins should stay in smaller tanks" theory. we should, honestly, test the waters ourselves. just like with our hair, they're just fins, and they'll grow back if given the proper care. new comers to the betta world, or to the fish world in general, should start with larger tanks, as it's suggested, and move on to smaller tanks when they've learned the tricks of the trade.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I know if I spent as much money as I just did on an imported HM male, I really wouldn't want him tearing his fins. That's why he lives in a shallow, bare-bottom tank. When I want to exercise him I either uncard his tank or use a mirror. Part of me now wishes I had done this with all my HM males prior to purchasing a whole bunch of larger tanks. 

I honestly want to know why tail-biting is thought to be boredom related? I know fish are capable of feeling and responding to stress, but boredom seems beyond their emotional scope. 

The only time my males bite, is when they are in the vicinity of another betta. I don't know if it's misplaced aggression or the drag of their fins making them feel vulnerable, but I know if I move a couple of my males closer to another tank, they will tear whole strips off their caudal fins.

This brings along the whole idea of whether fish are capable of feeling happiness. None of my fish have ever shown any sign of distress at being downgraded into a smaller tank. As long as I maintain appropriate conditions, there's never been any issues. 

Honestly, a year ago I would have been opposed to what OFL posted. However, now I have a whole aquarium full of fish and a chance to study their individual behaviors, I realise there's more merit to her post than simply small containers equals sub-par husbandry.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

thePWNISHER said:


> Okay, Since lots of people are like "what?" I'll try again:
> 
> -Any tank with no filter having 100% water changes will have the chance of errors made by the fish owner each water change.


Yes, this is exactly my point. If you have a small tank or an unfiltered tank, the chances of error are VERY high. More so in a smaller tank than a large tank. Both large and small sizes of tanks have the threat of ammonia poisoning if there is no filter, but things will QUICKLY turn bad in a small tank than a large tank (assuming it is properly stocked), due to the small volume of water. I personally don't know anybody who does 100% water changes in anything larger than a 5 gallon, usually because they are filtered/cycled. However smaller water changes will also lessen the risk of error on the caretaker's part. For example if you forget dechlorinator. In a tank with 100% change, that is ALL chlorinated water. If you have a larger, cycled tank, it may only be 25% of the water that is chlorinated, so it will be heavily diluted and may or may not be a severe threat to your fish.

I'm not saying small tanks are bad, I'm saying that they are NOT suitable for beginners/children, who are more likely to make mistakes than experienced aquarists.




thePWNISHER said:


> - The purpose of the main post was to adjust to your fishes temperament which you disagreed with but then in your post you agreed with it since you pointed out how you re-homed some of your bettas. So I was more or less just wondering why you were against an opinion when in your post you supported it.
> 
> At least it came across that way to me. Maybe i missed something.


I'm not sure, I felt that the purpose of the main post was saying that they should be kept in small spaces because larger spaces will cause them to freak out and rip their fins; regardless of whether you slowly upgrade a tank or not.

Judging from the other posts that 1000000% agree with it, they seem to think that as well.

Maybe we just both misinterpreted, thanks for clarifying


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## thePWNISHER (Jun 18, 2011)

Yah sometimes my explanations are not as clear, when you are bilingual sometimes you try to express your point but the vocabulary doesn't exist the same in one language as the other. I run into that wayyy too often. My wife can't stand it, I will say something and she'll ask me to restate it since it came out grammatically in spanish with english words. 

But yah basically I just feel the point of the story is be ready to rehome them if they aren't happy.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

*Understanding behavior*

Its not that the long heavy fin males are not active...some are.....some more than others...but this species by design is a more sedate fish...or not one that is in constant movement like a tetra or guppy...they still like to explore...don't misunderstand.....

Take their feeding habit for example....surface feeder (upturned mouth), opportunistic-ambush type feeder...this tells you that normal behavior would be a fish that sits at the top of the tank waiting for food...not one out and about hunting-not that they don't hunt-they do-but not like other species that are hunters...Then you have spawning behavior that can tell you this as well....being nest builders- tell you that the male stakes out a small territory waiting at the surface for a mate.... by understanding natural behaviors can help you understand normal and abnormal behavior in a closed system to help you better understand how to house them to meet needs to limit stress that can compromise the immune response.....

A Betta in constant movement is not normal behavior for this species...it can be due to-something wrong with the water, internal/external parasite, other illness, surface area, insecure, neurotic behavior related to genetics, breeding...etc......

Your Betta should swim around the tank and explore on occasion with a central location that he will retreat to and rest, wait for food, build a nest...etc........

When you walk in the room and/or come near the tank-the Betta should come alive, get excited-even do some glass surfing, hopping/jumping out of the water, wag its tail and beg for food......once fed and/or you are out of sight....he should retreat back to his spot and/or will explore at this time seeking any missed food..........

Although, you hear/read a lot about caves for this species....its true, they do need a hiding place to feel secure....but if you gave them a choice between something on the bottom or something on the top that provided equal cover/sense of security...they would pick the one at the top due to being a surface dwellers......

Some hobbyist base tank size needs on the "1 inch/gallon" rule and this is a great rule when stocking fish that reach 1-2 inch as an adult, its not intended for fish that adult size is over 2 inch...otherwise-we could stock a 10gal tank with a 10 inch Oscar and we all know that is wrong.....

Several other factors involved in regards to stocking an tank setup-swimming, feeding, spawning habits, territory, social needs, chemistry, temp, special-need factors related to body shape, fins...etc.....

You also have to take into account that this is a man-made fish with abnormal fins.......long heavy fins of the male Betta has special needs....

When picking the tank to house a single long fin male...look for longer rather than tall, limited water movement, add items that go all the way to the top, large leaf plants-live is better-but silk will work well too, smooth substrate, careful with items that can pinch long fins like large glass stones and items that can snag delicate fins.....you also have to think about what you want too.....larger space give you more choices to decorate.... making/creating the perfect/neat little ecosystem that suits both your vision and meets the needs of the Betta.......

With some heavy fin males you need to increase tank size in steps....moving from 1gal to 2gal-3gal-5gal...etc.....to their tolerance and ability to hold their fins or keep them intact.....
For some Betta keepers they don't care if the fins get torn/ragged due to space/filters...its just cosmetic and as long as you prevent a secondary infection...nothing wrong with that view IMO....
But many Betta keepers like or work hard to maintain the beautiful flowing fins and part of the reason they got them to start........
Point being......its a give or take.....and sometimes you have to increase tank size in steps, sometimes you don't...

As long as you maintain water quality....1gal-4gal size tanks are fine in my opinion/experience....even for the beginner-with proper guidance and understanding to help them establish good habits for proper care in Betta keeping....

The Betta is a great species that can be successfully kept by any hobbyist of any age or experience level........if they are willing to learn and do the work.......


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sometimes I don't always agree with everything you post OFL, but I have to say the above was very well-stated and I can't find a single point of contention. 

It's been nearly a week since my imported male started living in his bare-bottom tank (no filtration and only a couple of handfuls of java moss). There is not a single sign of biting or damage I can see.

I would definitely recommend housing imported males or those with excessively sized fins in small(er) tanks until the muscle is there to cope with the space provided by a regular 10 gallon.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> I personally don't know anybody who does 100% water changes in anything larger than a 5 gallon, usually because they are filtered/cycled.


I do a 100% change once a week on my 10 gallon - I do not have nor am I getting a filter, there is not any empty plugs. Either they get a heater or a filter and the heater won out. It's a major PITA because I have to take out most of the water and then lug it into the tub to dump out the rest and clean the gravel. It only houses two females though. 

My 5 gallon isnt filtered either. Its a marineland hex and came with a built in bio wheel something or other. I may cycle it at a later date when I can get the master water test kit



> As long as you maintain water quality....1gal-4gal size tanks are fine in my opinion/experience....even for the beginner


I have to agree. My second betta had bad ammonia burns? and his fins...well he looked like this:
http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=2395&pictureid=16142
I got a 1 gallon from walmart because I didnt know if he would make it or not.
His color returned and his fins grew back in about a month.


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## dragonflie (Aug 5, 2011)

Tikibirds said:


> I do a 100% change once a week on my 10 gallon - I do not have nor am I getting a filter, there is not any empty plugs. Either they get a heater or a filter and the heater won out. It's a major PITA because I have to take out most of the water and then lug it into the tub to dump out the rest and clean the gravel. It only houses two females though.


Is it glass or acrylic?

If it's a standard glass tank I'd be real careful doing it this way; or consider taking out the substrate. Over time you might end up weakening your seals carrying it around with too much weight on the bottom.

Of course it might never leak, but I am paranoid about such things so I always err on the side of caution.  I still have nightmarish fantasies about waking up one day to see water on my floor around my larger tanks, but I am the paranoid sort.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I have that nightmare too. -__- 
But if its very little water, I'm sure it wont be a problem, I'd be more worried about the gravel cracking the glass by mistake lol! Although, I'm sure Tiki's gravel must be the small kind.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> Is it glass or acrylic?


I have no idea. I found it at one of the transfer sites (AKA dump) in the "free crap" section. I'm gonna go with glass though. Isnt arcrylic like a plastic??


I take out as much of the water as I can, its normal gravel but it doesnt weigh very much at that point. I bough a gravel syphon 2 weeks ago but I cant get it to suck up the water.

What i'm paranoid about is that Alaska is part of the ring of fire and is a hotbed of seismic activity. we get alot of earthquakes everyday but they are so tiny most people dont feel them or they are in some remote location where no one lives. All my tanks are on those industrial shelves that hold like 150 pounds per shelf. Im afraid we are going to get a fairly strong one and it will knock the shelf over and there go all my fishies


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

So, I am confused here. I had Lakitu since May 4th (or so) and he'd been living in a 1.75 litre keeper that he came with until 2 days ago. There was no gravel, filter or heater and he was fine. Totally fine in our eyes. Quick to respond, fan out his fins, watching us :shock:... I felt bad and bought him a 1 gallon 2 or 3 days ago and it has a bubbler and an attached light. He loves this one too I think bc he's obsessed with bubbles.

When I got this tank and posted on the other forum I'm on the aquatic specialist suggested a heater, a larger tank, the whole she-bang. I'm also religious about cleaning. His tiny tank got cleaned every 2-3 days. I'm no fool. I read up before getting him that frequent water changes were necessary if I wanted to keep him in something that size. No problem. I have no qualms with keeping things clean (I have a geriatric dog and messy bunny too) Plus I've kept turtles and aquariums before. 

 So this thread threw me for a loop. If he's acting fine in the 1 gal so I need to upgrade and is a filter even necessary? The heater is a must as well? I'm finding so many contradictions now I don't know what to do!


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## dragonflie (Aug 5, 2011)

Laki said:


> So this thread threw me for a loop. If he's acting fine in the 1 gal so I need to upgrade and is a filter even necessary? The heater is a must as well? I'm finding so many contradictions now I don't know what to do!


This is a topic that is heavily debated on ANY forum that deals with fish, be it tropicals in general or just bettas.

I know it's confusing, but the best thing you can do is make the decision you feel is best. Minimum tank size is just one of those things in regards to bettas that will be debated until the end of time.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

A heater is a must especially if your area gets chilly. Filter isn't necessary as long as you're up to the cleanings.. If you think that he can handle a 1 gallon and you can as well. Then let him be. Its upto you. 
Ofl is just trying to explain what kind of scenario one should have a betta in, how one should let the betta get used to moving into a bigger tank etc..
My male bettas are in 2.5-3 gallon tanks with nothing except for a few plastic plants to rest on , caves to hide in and a heater in the colder months. I clean out their water 2 times a week and they're doing great.  That's how I do it. What you do can be completely different as long as it suits your and the betta's needs.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

LOL okay ^^ SO I don't need to drop everything and run out to buy a new tank, heater, filter etc. . . That said, even though I convinced my bf that we needed a betta in our life (and I take care of it -_-) I am getting the itch.. You know... To upgrade. Add a few more fish...  Yea, you know what I'm talking about. The only restriction we have is size. We rent a bedroom as we're both broke butt students. A full tank is too much atm. I LOVE LOVE LOVE gourami's and want to keep them again some day I think. Thanks ^^


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## Flaretacious (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks OFL, that actually makes me feel a whole lot better and good information by the way.


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