# Dog counter conditioning/ positive reinforcement / dog prey drive and reactivity



## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi, as many of you may already know, I use positive methods when working with my dogs. I like that it gives them a chance to really think and work things out in their mind. It is such a joy when you see them figure out what you really want! They often act just as excited as you do!

Learning the train FOR the moment and not IN the moment was so beneficial for me. It sped up my dogs progress at lightening speed. As well as rewarding those times when you are not training like catching your dogs relaxing and calmly walking up and placing a treat on the floor for them (saying nothing and being very calm). These small rewards at times when they are behaving calmly is known as "capturing calmness". Learning the positive attention noise, or "positive interrupter" was helpful as well.

I learnt this from Emily from channel Kikopup on Youtube.

Positive reinforcement works on any dog regardless of age , breed, male/female, or lifestyle. Sometimes you have to adjust how you use it and be creative depending on the dog you are working with but you can get where you want with your dog by using it! 

I really would like to share information about a wonderful YouTube channel called Kikopup. Her methods really gave me more confidence that I could train my prey driven dog without aversive methods.

One of her dogs was reactive in the past as well as some of her clients dogs, but you will never realize it because of how calm and behaved they are now!

Even when training puppies new behaviors, it goes smoothly, because she rewards heavily those "in between times" when they are just sitting calmly. She breaks everything into small achievable goals. Really setting them up for success. Often people think she is using puppies that already know the behavior because of how quickly they pick up on it!

The light bulb moment for me was when she explained how it is possible to use positive methods when training dogs who want to chase that rabbit in the woods ,or the squirrels and birds. Which was one of my dogs at that time!

The answer was you don't train them at those times. When they are already over threshold they are in no state of mind to learn anything at that point. You instead make through counter conditioning those animals blend in with the environment. They essentially become uninteresting stimuli in the dogs environment. The dogs will come back to you with ease because they no longer want those other animals and don't see a need to be interested in them at all.

You may be interested in Emily LarIham's ( Kikopup as I may have spelled her last name wrong) VOD Harnessing The Hunter.

She also has a video on this for free on her channel that has nice footage of the end result of working with her own dogs. How is it possible to use Positive Reinforcement to train a RELIABLE recall? - YouTube

At one point one of my dogs was reactive around other dogs and and using counter conditioning I was able to not only fix the problem, but get him to the point that he wanted to play with the dogs he had previously barked and lunged at. 


There were 3 new dogs next door. The owners would let them out to play at random times throughout the day. What I did initially was I would have my dog laying on a mat a long distance away (I already rewarded him heavily each time he got on the mat making it an enjoyable spot). Using high value meat and treats I would have him look at the dog. I instantly tossed him the treat on his mat. I would do this repeatedly . Over time I had him look a the dogs and look at me and rewarded. Over time by repeating this process he was at a point where he would not even look at the dogs anymore from that distance. I repeated the steps gradually getting closer and closer to the other dogs when they were out each training session.

When they were not out I still repeated the process having him look over at the yard the dogs would normally be out in.

I was thrilled when we were finally at a point where the dogs met through a fence. The first day the other dog was trying to play and my dog finally returned the gesture. Going into a play bow! 

I will post a picture of the simple plan for Emotional and Behavioral modification. It is basically what I used. The full explanation is on dogmantics.com and she goes over much of this in her free YouTube videos.











Some other resources are channel Training Positive on YouTube who really helped me with loose leash walking, as well as Freestyle Paws who inspired me to teach my dogs fun and amazing tricks. They both have have excellent content as well!!

Training Positive - YouTube

Amazing Dog Tricks by Border Collie JUSTY [4 years] - YouTube


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## Aries&Gucci (Jan 6, 2021)

I will have to try this


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

Thanks for reading it! If you ever have any questions feel free to ask as I will happily help out if I can. Remember that you must find what really motivates your dog to use as a reward. Some love certain foods but not others, some love toys but have a favorite toy so you just have to play around and find what they love. 

When trying to get your dogs interested in a toy, hold the toy in your hand and walk backwards and away from them. or drag it backwards on the ground. Do not walk over and put it near their face or push it towards them as this can make some dogs uncomfortable and will make them less likely to be interested in the toy. 

Happy training!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I've thought for long and hard over whether to respond to the original post. Unless otherwise indicated, what I am saying is about retraining dogs with behavior issues. Most dogs without them and puppies easily and quickly train with positive reinforcement (treats, toys, affection).

IMO, it is wonderful when one finds a training method that works for them. Wanting to to tell others about one's success is more than understandable. And such success as cited above should be applauded; commended because it takes a lot of committed effort to retrain unsuitable behavior.

But it is entirely different when someone who is not highly qualified starts giving advice to the masses and using generalizations when it comes to behavior issues; especially abhorrent ones.

*My background:*
In 1972 I joined a group obedience classes with a poodle. I had been teaching dogs tricks since I can remember. This class, however, changed my life forever by sparking an interest in formal dog training and behavior that I have until this day even though I no longer practice.

Since 1972 I've trained or helped others train hundreds of dogs. I learned hands-on with mentors and by instructing Obedience classes and have also attended numerous seminars and clinics to learn training methods and to those for behavior modification and understanding and interpreting behavior. I am certified to conduct AKC Canine Good Citizenship tests. I have AKC Obedience titled my own German Shepherd dogs and German Shorthaired Pointers to advanced levels.

A group of us taught Obedience classes through Adult Education; I'm proud to say I was voted Training Director. One of my students took her _first_ dog to the coveted and difficult Utility Dog title. I also rehabbed numerous German Shorthaired Pointers in the 20+ years I did GSP rescue.

When I I left my "real" job, and at the advice of my vet, I ventured into an area that badly needed help: Aiding owner in understanding puppy behavior. She had already been sending me people to help informally so this was a natural extension. Mine was a one-person operation. I never advertised; instead, I depended entirely on referrals from vets, shelters, rescue groups and satisfied clients. I made the decision to close it a year after we left Nashville but continued group classes until 2012 when the knees decided they'd had quite enough, thank you.

*I learned a lot of things:*
First, there are three types of bad behaviors that require experienced help: Those that put the dog itself in danger; that put other animals in danger and those that put humans (especially children) in danger.

Second, you cannot "fix" abhorrent behaviors; you can only manage them. They are always lurking and if you fail to recognize or reinforce at the FIRST indication they will come back; often worse than before.

Often owners not only fail not only to recognize the warning signs, they also they inadvertently contribute to these unsuitable behaviors. This is not to criticize because the ability to recognize the warning signs before they happen takes time and experience.

For example: Clients were recommended to me after they took their Beagle in for euthanasia. They had watched numerous videos on aggression (before YouTube) and determined it was only a matter of time before their dog's "menacing snarling" became a bite. The minute I walked into their apartment I was greeted by the sweetest, "Smiling" little dog. SMILING! Not snarling; but showing one of the signs of a very submissive dog...and the owner's misinterpretation nearly cost her her life!

One of the best ways to learn behavior is to watch a bitch's interaction with her puppies from birth to complete weaning and watching how the litter interacts. This way you learn to teach in a language _dogs and puppies_ understand instead of expecting them to learn ours. And you see their Mother and littermates teach them early on there _are_ consequences for unacceptable behavior. This is the basis of how I train. I also never "test" any puppy or dog. This sets them up for failure. "Test" means try to induce them to make a mistake.

While I firmly believe positive reinforcement should be the method of choice and it by far the best _training_ method, it can only go so far. Despite what others would like you to believe, positive reinforcement is not always possible nor is it always successful.

*The variables often not considered:*
The first thing which must be recognized is that not all training methods work for all dogs any more than all child-rearing methods work for all children.There are just too many variables; especially when dealing with what we perceive to be unacceptable behavior:

Not all owners see dogs and their place in the family the same way
Some lack real motivation because they're only seeking help because it's been forced on them
Some cannot grasp what their dog and its behavior is trying to tell them no matter how many times it is explain
Many see using treats or toys as "bribing" and will not use them
Some dogs are sight-motivated; some scent-motivated. These dogs live in two entirely different "sensory" worlds and do not learn the same way or react in the same way...ask anybody with Sighthounds. My experiences helping train those breeds made me a better trainer and taught me so very much including rethinking some previously-held assumptions
You can't retrain a dog that is not food motivated or distracted from intent the same way as a dog that rates food as #1 reason for tolerating humans
Some dogs pattern train and barring behavioral issues are easily motivated by even a tennis ball (Retrievers)
Some dogs are independent thinkers (German Shepherd dogs, poodles, Shih Tzu)
Genetics. Don't discount genetics and a breed's original purpose (guarding, hunting, lap pet, etc.) This applies to mixed breeds, too, if you have an idea of ancestry.
Mental state. Yes, there are dogs that, for whatever reason, do not react "normally." What if it's been used as a bait dog for pit training? Yes, I've dealt with such dogs.
The good trainers know these variables and treat each dog and owner as the individuals they are. They may have a method that works in the majority of cases but they also have more guns in their arsenal than one. They might never need them but they are prepared and capable of adapting to varying situations and histories.

*Generalizations:*
With all of this in mind, I must seriously question the generalization that "_Positive reinforcement works on *any* dog regardless of age , breed, male/female, or lifestyle_." (emphasis mine)

Is this statement provable by study or statistics? Is this presumed or does it come from personal experience using positive reinforcement with_ a great many dogs_ (including those not one's own) of various ages, sexes, breeds, lifestyles and, more important, with a wide variety of behavior issues?

For example, not all chasing is prey driven. How do you know it is not territory or fear driven? What if you are mistaken in the root cause of the chasing? What if the drive is focused on children instead of other dogs? What if a dog bites a child's face? Or the neighbor's dogs chase a child down her own driveway when she gets off the school bus? Do parents really want to pot all their eggs in the positive-reinforcement-cures-all basket in hopes of protecting a child?

Having dealt with the above and other life-and-death situations more times than I care to count, I am very sensitive to generalizations about behavior and one-size fits all "cures." In any area, either can be dangerous and even deadly.


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi Russel thanks for stopping by. I have a very lengthy reply being made up right now in response to everything you have brought up in your post. I have some personal matters I am dealing with as of right now, so I can only work on my response a bit at a time. Yes it is that long because I feel there are several things I must address and I want to be thorough in my post. 

Thanks for waiting and I will do my best to post as soon as possible!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Hope your issues resolve soon. I do believe you should be commended for the dedication it took to help your dog. I hope that came across. People often don't follow through to the conclusion...usually through a lack of that dedication.


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

Hi Russel, I am really glad that you chose replying to the thread over not. That is what the forums are for and many of the questions you asked me, I was going to address in a second post. It was going to be about questions surrounding positive methods as well as some myths.

I will try and address everything you have brought up.

I am going to put each section into a category as you did as this will be a long post.

I will say though that there are many force free trainers or positive trainers (whatever you wish to refer it to) that have far more experience with these methods. They have used them on hundreds if not thousands of their client’s dogs. I have studied dog body language and I know what the four quadrants are. I have trained with my own dogs for years now learning more and more as I go but I do not think I can do the methods justice compared to a force free trainer with a lot more experience. I am learning from them and not the other way around after all!

They could come up with far better answers to your questions I am sure, but here it goes!

Why I would give any advice at all or share resources -

In dog training, there are self-taught trainers who can be good and bad and there are professional dog trainers who can also be good. There are also people who are believed to be professional that can do some very sickening things behind the scenes, but that is for another time.

I would never attempt to rehabilitate a dog over the internet with very serious problems, just as I would never tell a person how to treat their dog’s medical problems without them seeing a veterinarian. That doesn’t mean I will withhold information about different techniques that are quite important when using methods that are force free. For example, timing or rewards are important as well as how you deliver them. Simple things like that can make a big difference. Just as I am not going to withhold information about natural remedies that could be useful for a sick dog.

If it was the difference between the person not getting help anyway, I may try and share what I have learned so the dog would get at least a bit of help.

I do not however see the harm in giving advice within reason to people that may not even know how to properly use positive methods or even know they exist at all.

I did not start out training using only positive methods (well I did not start learning about it at all until later). My father got one of my dogs a choker chain when I was very young. He grew up learning that those were the “methods” to use. Positive based training was not taught or widely known at that time. Choke chains were recommended back then. Aversive was the normal at that point. In my heart I felt it was wrong from a young age, but I did not know why. He believed that a choker chain was not harmful and that they need to feel discomfort in order to not pull (he has since changed his mind and regrets using it at all). My dog did not make any progress with this and it wasn’t until I came across positive methods that he was able to make progress.

Learning about positive methods saved my dog and allowed him to learn countless other things that would not have been possible before.

I got a book of dog tricks and that is really where my journey began. My parents loved watching me teach the dogs a bunch of new tricks. I taught my dogs loose leash walking. On a harness. I threw the choke chain into the trash. I was new to training dogs, I didn’t know about all the things I know now. I was new so yes my dog was older when he learned things.

I could have taught my dog even more earlier if I had known about it when we first got him. Yes, I was very young but it would still have been helpful.

That is why I wanted to share the information that I did, to give someone else a chance to realize the potential of positive methods and help people that may have never even trained their dogs at all.

My dad admitted he wished he had learned about all the new methods I was using and that I had been around to train his other dogs. He loves seeing the bond I have with the dogs.



Your Career With Dogs-

I know you have worked very hard in your career with dogs! I do not doubt you have a passion for dogs, as most people would not choose this career if they did not! Anyone who cares enough to save a dog from being euthanized has done an act of great kindness and I personally want to thank you for that! I wish this happened more as thousands of dogs are euthanized each day many for space reasons in shelters alone. The thought they get into homes and also face being put to death, often as in your example for behavior problems that do not even exist saddens me. I really do love hearing about your journey in dog training!

Mother and Pups-

I also do not doubt that watching a mother and pups can be a learning experience and an adorable one at that.

Most good mother dogs are very gentle with their pups from everything I have learnt from breeders and many of the live footage of mothers I have seen. Many will walk away from their pups when they are getting to be too rowdy. I have seen this happen countless times. At most they will growl and rarely do they nip. A mother who is more on the bossy side around other dogs can turn out to be very gentle with her pups, most animal mothers are very gentle I think.

There are however cases where the mother can be very pushy and snappy and this can result in puppies that are fearful and may show aggressive behavior down the road in some cases. The breeders often admit that this is not really average normal behavior in mothers. A mother in a stressful situation can become snappier with her pups as well.

Some dogs unfortunately have gone as far as to kill their pups and this is definitely not normal or average behavior!

For the siblings I have seen many times puppies playing way too rough and one will yelp and stop playing. It is telling the other that it was rough and now the play session has ended.

This communication is not physically harming the other dog to tell it to stop. Just as the mother walking away is not physically hurting it. She is simply ignoring the pups temporarily to tell them she needs her space. Similar to what the siblings are doing. Too rough equals play ended temporarily.

Positive reinforcement based does not mean that we do not do things such as covering up a treat when teaching “leave it” if they lunge for it, teach them to wait before darting out a door or wait before eating, teach them to not chew up a house, or anything similar. It is how we do it that sets the methods apart.

We just are not going to be seen physically or mentally causing a dog pain or discomfort. We focus on teaching and reinforcing behaviors that will often erase or at least manage the problem behaviors. A dog cannot dart out of a door if they are taught to sit at the door before it opens and this is repeated over and over until the dog will not dart out just out of muscle memory. This can happen because the behavior has been highly reinforced. Making things fun can go a long way as dogs can pick up on new behaviors often quickly as you said!



Different Variables-

The behavior problems you listed are absolutely dangerous and do need addressed and worked on. No trainer is going to ignore this fact. Using positive methods does not mean ignoring problems. Most good trainers using these methods have a goal to never put the dog in a place or mental state of high arousal again.

A person called “Dog Liaison” on YouTube specifically works with “aggressive dogs” although she hates referring to them as such. She believes there is no such thing, only dogs whom in certain situations act aggressively and the root of the problem is very often misunderstood. Her “recovering rover” program has helped many dogs be better understood by their owners.

Emily from channel Kikopup has dealt with many aggressive and reactive dogs. Some of her own were this way but you would never guess it now. Her methods are based around never putting said dog into a place where it is going to feel the need to react in such a way again. To change the thoughts of that dogs through counter conditioning. She does not believe in letting a dog get over threshold for the sake of views as she knows repeating such behaviors are detrimental for dogs.

Positive reinforcement is not a training method in itself as we know although training methods and techniques can be based around it. If it is not reinforcing a behavior and making it more likely to occur, it is not truly positive reinforcement. Therefore in reality positive reinforcement in itself cannot fail, but something thought to be positive reinforcement that is not considered so for the dog can. Sometimes what is thought to be positive Reinforcement is not for the dog you are working with.

An example being a dog who is shy around people. Sometimes dogs love loud exciting praise like a GOOD GIRL OR GOOD BOY OR YES! In the case of other dogs however this would be considered quite aversive thus they are going to be likely to NOT want to repeat a behavior when you react that way. It would probably best to be very calm and quiet and reward in a calm and quiet way.



These variables do need to be considered, because a method is only useful if used and only as helpful as the owner will let it, but I think these variables do not change the fact that if used, adjusted for the individual dog, and attempted people may be surprised by the result.



People put force free positive based methods into a box. They assume it Is only beneficial for puppies and “normal adult dogs”.

I’m telling you, reactive dogs and aggressive dogs can really benefit only because for many it has been lifesaving. There is science behind counter conditioning. Often these dogs react based on what they think is about to happen.

If we can truly get to the root of what is causing them to react this way, we can really help these dogs.



You must train to fit the lifestyle and wants of the owners as well yes, but in the end if they are coming to a trainer for help, you would think that they would at least consider the techniques being used and put past their feelings of for instance “bribing” which is so far from true.



I am inserting the variables you listed although I did not get to respond directly to them all.



“Not all owners see dogs and their place in the family the same way” 
 This is very true, especially in a household where there are multiple owners who may or may not want the dog. This is especially true in those instances where a person brings a dog home without the others knowing or something like that. However, if you have a dog it’s your responsibility to provide the best care possible regardless if you consider your dog, a companion or friend, family member, or simply a dog that shares a home with you. Whatever the circumstance is you must care enough to think of its wellbeing, because there are people that really do love their dogs and do everything possible to give them a good life. The fact that a dog is a living creature already means you must treat it with respect as the living breathing creature it is.
2.“Some lack real motivation because they're only seeking help because it's been forced on them”
I can definitely see how this would be difficult. An owner of a dog that is not really interested in getting the help or feels overwhelmed with the situation is tricky. Once the owner starts seeing results they may change their mind or gain more confidence, however for the training to work the owner must be committed to helping the dog from the beginning, because they must continue the training for it to be successful. A lot of dog training begins with the owner I think.

3.
“ Some cannot grasp what their dog and its behavior is trying to tell them no matter how many times it is explained”

If they truly cannot grasp the behavior, using a method using corrections would be even more unfair for the dog if they are attempting to train it themselves. If someone is in that situation they need more education or hire a professional because understanding behavior is crucial. Teaching new behavior that contradicts or erases unsuitable behavior would probably be best in this case if they were going to attempt to train the dog themselves anyway. Especially if the behavior was something they could safely work at on their own.

4.
Many see using treats or toys as "bribing" and will not use them

This one I see often, rewarding and bribing are not the same. 

One is used to increase the likelihood of a behavior occurring again, the dogs are rewarded when they have made an attempt at the behavior you want to see more of. Besides, we as people go to work and are rewarded in a paycheck. If you are doing extra well you get a bonus. Would you go to work if they continuously withheld payment? So why consider rewards for your dogs a bribe? Is it horrible for a dog to enjoy learning new things? I suppose with human children giving them rewards for their hard work is a bribe also?”

5.
“Some dogs are sight-motivated; some scent-motivated. 

These dogs live in two entirely different "sensory" worlds and do not learn the same way or react in the same way...ask anybody with Sighthounds. My experiences helping train those breeds made me a better trainer and taught me so very much including rethinking some previously-held assumptions”

I do not doubt they are different I have never personally trained a sighthound, although I know it is not impossible. I agree that different breeds need different training techniques, but positive methods are not a one size fits all approach. The whole idea is based upon looking at the dogs breed, background, age, personality and every variable possible. Coming up with a plan that is specifically tailored for that dog and setting it up for success.
6.
Some dogs are independent thinkers (German Shepherd dogs, poodles, Shih Tzu)

No dog is untrainable as I am sure you know already. You may need to get creative finding what really reinforces these dogs but the ones you listed are highly trainable breeds. I would love the pleasure of working with them. They are very intelligent and pick up on things quickly. Poodles and German shepherds are often used as Service dogs for this very reason. Many are fantastic ones at that. I have seen a shihTzu as a diabetic service dog before, although not as common these dogs have great potential. When working with these dogs it would be beneficial to give them a job to do. Keeping their minds busy. None of the dog breeds listed are beyond what force free training can do. When initially training service dogs their techniques are typically force free for the most part. Yes some will have a martingale collar, prong, choke etc. after they have been trained, but that is a choice of the handler which equipment they choose to use. The tasks that are life saving for these people are trained using positive reinforcement.



7.
“Genetics. Don't discount genetics and a breed's original purpose (guarding, hunting, lap pet, etc.) This applies to mixed breeds, too, if you have an idea of ancestry.”

When using positive methods, the dog’s genetics are definitely considered. This helps determine what is going to be truly reinforcing for the dog. Often times you can use this to your advantage. Emily from channel Kikopup got into positive training because she had a beagle. It wanted to sniff all the time and regular techniques were not working for her. She used the environment as a reward. When the dog was walking nicely on a leash it would be allowed to go sniff. The rest was history. No dog is reinforced by nothing.



8.
“Mental state. Yes, there are dogs that, for whatever reason, do not react "normally." What if it's been used as a bait dog for pit training? Yes, I've dealt with such dogs.”

Counter conditioning is going to be beneficial for a dog dealing with trauma. Using aversive methods on such a dog would be very dangerous and perhaps worsen the dogs mental state. These dogs need very careful rehabilitation, time and patience will be key here.

The same would go for the Pitbull that had been in the ring. Although I would really like to add emphasis that dog fighters do not care what dogs they use. They often use a ton of different breeds besides pit bulls as the fighters.



Trust me pit bulls will attack you with love in most cases and thrive on positive reinforcement.



Generalizations-



I stand by my statement. Positive reinforcement in itself can work for any dog. However, with the new variables you have mentioned I should add that the methods based upon it can only work if whoever is working with the dog is willing to both try them and adjust the plan for the individual dog they are working with. 

Studies have shown that positive reinforcement is better for both dogs and humans alike. Aversive methods have been shown to be both detrimental and dangerous and increase the chance of aggression in the dogs.

I can link many different studies on this.

I can see where you are coming from. You want to keep people safe. In the case of my own dog he is very prey driven. In his case he killed a rabbit so I have no doubt what he wants to do to small animals. I am still working with him and he is excellent on a long line around the animals. Ignoring squirrels, birds, etc. I still do not wish to risk him attacking cats so when they are out I never let him off leash, although he is on a very long one. 



Again there are many people with more experience who could answer your questions about the methods much better. 

I hope you do not take anything I have written as offensive or rude in any way!


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Hope your issues resolve soon. I do believe you should be commended for the dedication it took to help your dog. I hope that came across. People often don't follow through to the conclusion...usually through a lack of that dedication.


Thank you! I understand completely. I hope that my post does not offend you at all in any way as that is not my intention! Yours was beautifully written and mine seems sloppy in comparison. I know this is not a writing contest but It was very nicely done!

As for the words I have written, nobody has to agree with it, I do what I feel works for my dogs and I am just urging people to consider the methods because I have seen how much happier the dogs are when they are learning in such a way.

Thanks again!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I didn't question positive reinforcement anywhere in what I wrote. How could I? I use it.  And I nowhere did I question the trainers you cited. I've followed them on and off for years and, for the most part, completely agree.

What I said was I was _only referring to dogs with behavioral issues. _Continuing: "Most dogs without them (behavioral issues) and puppies easily and quickly train with positive reinforcement (treats, toys, affection)."

Everything I expressed was based on one statement "Positive reinforcement works on _any _dog regardless of age , breed, male/female, or lifestyle. " as it carries the implication that positive reinforcement is 100% effective on any dog with any behavior issue...including any of the types of aggression. It might be in the hands of an experienced/professional trainer such as those you mention. If attempted by the inexperienced with an aggressive dog it can and will lead to tragedy.

My advice to anyone who is reading this: If your dog has a behavior issue, take it to the vet for a complete physical with blood work and urine testing to ensure it is not organic. If the issue is aggression, have an evaluation consultation with a trainer who can determine with what type of aggression you are dealing. By all means, watch YouTube but do not self-diagnose your dog. It can cost you both.

Added: Urinary infections (and loss of Estrogen in spayed bitches) can make it seem a dogs has gone "off" its housebreaking.


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I didn't question positive reinforcement anywhere in what I wrote. How could I? I use it.  And I nowhere did I question the trainers you cited. I've followed them on and off for years and, for the most part, completely agree.
> 
> What I said was I was _only referring to dogs with behavioral issues. _Continuing: "Most dogs without them (behavioral issues) and puppies easily and quickly train with positive reinforcement (treats, toys, affection)."
> 
> ...


Hi , I agree that someone inexperienced working with a dog with severe problems that have severe aggressive tendency could end in both the owner and dog getting hurt. 

What I was attempting to portray in my post was that positive based methods can work wonderfully on a dog with aggression issues , but I agree it would take someone with experience that really knows how to use the methods in order to get the best results. That is why hiring a professional that knows a lot more about force free training would be best. 

Not all force free trainers have enough experience to give the dogs the best chance though , although the ones I have listed , I feel could definitely handle it as they have in the past such as Emily from Kikopup or Jenna from Dog Liaison.

I was also attempting to portray that aversive does not mean better. In reality in using positive methods it is done in a way that is tailored for the individual dog and a plan is made based on every variable. Some trainers I have seen use the same choke chain or prong corrections and in reality this is much more limiting and it will not give the best results for the dog.
What the dog is feeling still on the inside may be masked by the corrections but what it is feeling is still there. They have not gotten to the root of the problem.

A person can always learn and read themselves as that will only benefit the dog but in the end finding help from a professional is usually best.

I agree that a dog that has a tendency for aggressive behavior should be checked out by a vet! A dog in pain can become snappy and a whole lot of other things can contribute to "negative behavior". Such as a dog with arthritis "refusing to sit" when in reality its joints hurt!


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

I have been wanting to create dog content here on the forums for a very long while but always held back because dogs can be a topic in which people have very strong views and I do not like stirring up trouble. 
Russel, 
You addressed all your concerns in a kind way. I thank you for that.

I hope that me bringing dog related content here on the forums did not upset anyone reading it. 

In writing my original post I had good intentions, however I should have been more clear about what I meant by the particular statement you have brought up. 

For anyone reading this, feel free to try positive methods they truly do have a lot of potential! If you have a dog with problems you do not understand or known aggressive behavior , find someone with a lot of experience with the methods in combination with educating yourself more on them for the safety of both yourself and the dog!


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## bernier_janet (Apr 7, 2020)

Thank you for sharing this information. I just got a dog two months ago, and I still don't know her well. My dog can be joyful and then suddenly angry. I try to fight it, and I succeed, but the most terrible problem is her disobedience. She often doesn't follow my commands, runs away from the yard, takes everything in her mouth. Although I almost managed to solve one of these problems. I bought on https://thepetsmaster.com/best-wireless-dog-fences/ a special fence so that it doesn't leave the territory of my yard. To my surprise, she began to try to escape less often. But the problem with her disobedience in terms of eating and following commands is still there.


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## Animals15 (Sep 12, 2017)

bernier_janet said:


> Thank you for sharing this information. I just got a dog two months ago, and I still don't know her well. My dog can be joyful and then suddenly angry.


Thanks for reading! I would highly suggest dog Liaison and her recovering rover program as I do not know the exact situations your dog changes and other variables. She does virtual appointments. She has a lot of experience in this area. She is familiar with body language in dogs and can better read the situation.
Emily from Kikopup has a lot of experience in this area as well, but I am unsure if she does appointments virtually.

*The Recovering Rover Program for Dog Aggression & Reactivity — Dog Liaison, LLC (getacalmdog.com) *


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

As a retired dog trainer/behaviorist, I would strongly urge you to seek hands-on help. Anyone who claims they can help your dog without actually seeing its environment, how the two of you interact, etc., doesn't have the entire picture. One of the reasons I retired, besides my knees, was I was so frustrated fixing mistakes.

Not saying they are all that way and there are those who've had positive results. Yes, there are successes. But a lot of their success depends on the owner. Still, nothing can compete with a one-on-one, hands-on evaluation and correct interpretation of a dog's body language. And learning, firsthand, if you are correctly interpreting your dog's behavior. 

For instance, what do you mean by "angry"? Do you mean "possessive" of food or toys or furniture? Do you mean nippy? Or do you mean full-out coming after you or others with the full intention of biting? Is she young enough to be teething? Does she try to bite when held? Has she always been "angry" or has it been gradually coming one? Does she suddenly go from "joyful" to "angry"?

If you were my client, before we even started and no matter the dog's age, she would have a full veterinarian exam to eliminate pain or discomfort as a cause. What breed is she? Is she a breed that can have hip, shoulder or stifle issues? I've seen a lot of pain-caused "aggression." Once the pain was alleviated, so was what others had interpreted as aggression.

Just something to think about.


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## AliJaa (Sep 21, 2021)

I don't really like the wording of the topic. There is no need for any opposition to the dog. xdxdxdxd. They just need to be loved and appreciated, they feel it and pay the same. As for the dog's anxiety, it can be dealt with very simply. First of all, you need to feed the dog properly. Some feeds cause hyperactivity in dogs. There are also many other good ways to combat dog hyperactivity. The good methods that I used are written on the website: A Beginner’s Guide to Relieving Your Dog’s Anxiety - That Eric Alper


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## cedricdig14 (Jan 3, 2022)

Thank you for the helpful information! I will try these methods.


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## fiishmaan (Jan 3, 2022)

Wow, thanks for such an excellent article, it's really very interesting and informative. There are many methods for raising dogs and your method definitely has a place to be. I will not use your technique, because I like my method more. I believe that you should love your dogs, and in return you will get the same. About the anxiety of dogs, I read the information here happiestdog.com and I learned something else from my veterinarian friend. It is necessary to make a diet for your dog and identify foods that cause an excited state in dogs. Many people often forget that food directly affects the behavior of pets, but in vain! If you monitor the nutrition of your dog, then her health, both mental and physical, will be normal.


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## garrylazaret (2 mo ago)

You're doing great. Dogs remember any movement you make in their direction. Of course, they also know how to take offense. If you raise your voice at the dog, it will remember it and treat you worse. Your voice should sound strict only when the dog is guilty. If you're in a bad mood, the dog isn't related to this, don't scold it. Our dog is a very smart German Shepherd. He has always been calm and understanding and loves kids and the elderly. So we decided to apply for service dog registration. We believe that he can cope with the task of helping people with disabilities or people with PTSD. We will be proud of him.


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