# Is Something Wrong with My New Betta Fish?



## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm VERY new to Betta's (bought my first one yesterday) and I've been nervous about how my Bettas been acting in the Tank.

Since I'm new to having Bettas or any fish at all I could'nt buy nice fancy equipment for the little guy since I was buying everything under the sun (tank, food, fish, water conditioner, some decor etc.) but on Monday I'm going by the pet store to get a larger tank with a heater, filter, thermometer as well as some snacks for him, and a kit to test the water and all that stuff cause I want to ensure that he lives a healthy happy life.

right now though hes in a filtered 1 gal tank ( i know its cruel but I couldn't afford a large tank off a whim with all the other expenses for Carlson but hes only in there for a short time until I get the new tank monday)

Carlson has been doing stuff that I'm unsure is natural for a Betta or if I should be concerned. He swims sometimes but at times he lies really still on the gravel and then he swims up, like hes doing now and has been doing the whole day, to behind the filter where he just floats in the little crevasse and doesn't come out. should I be concerned that he doesn't want to swim around much and hide behind a filter? I got him a little place to hide and some decor plants but he just goes up their and looks like he dead ;_; could it be something wrong with the tank maybe the waters not good or something? the filter might be strong or the waters not good? I just hope he's not sick because of my lack of experience in fish care 

I bought a few books today on Betta care which I'll be reading all night lol I hate not knowing especially when it comes to the care of a living creature

also because I'm going to buy his new home and all what kind of tank should I get him? in 20 gal ok? or will that overwhelm him as an only fish and get a 10 gal? any suggestions on water conditioners? or other supplies I should get? Im so new at this so I want to get him the best stuff I possibly can

thanks!! and I apologize for the long Post!!


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

I only have one betta that does this, and he was a very last second rescue from the pet store. He was on his very last limbs. Warmer water will help for sure, but it may just be the way that he acts. Mine perked up when I floated a plant in his tank, so I would definitely suggest that. Also, I threw one ghost shrimp and he is learning how to eat it...thus I would suggest doing something along those lines as well (especially since shrimp are so cheap and they help keep the tank clean (if they stay alive).

I named my male Frankenstein, as my boyfriend and I think he might be dead until he moves again.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Thats how mine was the place wasn't good at keeping their tanks clean half the fish in the tanks at the store were dead and those still alive were suffering from the decay and the dirtiness of lack of cleaning. the smaller bettas were all dead and this one a long with a shelf of others were the only heathly fish in the store from what I could tell so im hoping it isnt something he may have gotten from there but I couldnt of left him in there so hopfully I can nurse him back to heath and make him feel better that hes not in that place anymore

is it normal for bettas to float and be very still for some time? hes swim around then hell just stop and float which makes me go up to him to see if he hasnt given up on me x__x I hate doing it to cause I dont want to startle him. 

I haven't given him any real plants cause the person at the store said there hard to take care of? what type should I get him do you think?

I dont think I couldnt watch another animal get eaten alive but I'll try some treats like bloodworms and other betta foods

Thanks for the advice Hodoken Kitty!


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Welcome. Since you have a 1g & plan to get a new tank on Monday, I would get rid of the filter. It is likely that with that small volume of water there is too much current & that is bothering him. As for his new tank, if you don't plan to add any other fish I would get a 5g or the 5.5g that Petsmart carries. The 10g is also a good choice & the one I recommend if you have the space. I personally prefer a sponge filter instead of an HOB or internal but it really is a matter of personal choice. You definitely want the API Freshwater Master test kit or something similar. Water conditioner I recommend Prime. Food get either Omega One or New Life Spectrum pellets. Heaters will somewhat depend on tank size but get an adjustable one, most of my heaters are Aqueon 50W or Fluval. You'll want plants either real or silk & a cave or two. That'll be a good start. You'll want to read up on cycling a tank & if you have questions ask away.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Psssh, that ain't a long post! Now I can write some novels! haha

20 gallons would be perfectly fine for him, however it's not so much the space that he would get freaked out by, it's all the open space. Betta's naturally live in Rice Paddies which are just filled with plants, and so if you had a big tank like that you'd just needs LOTS of plants and decor to fill it up.

I would go with the 10 gallons, it's going to be easier for you to maintain, cheaper to buy things for as well.

I suggest you get 'just' the tank which is about 14 dollars because generally kits don't come with good gear and you'll just be upgrading them anyway. That's what I wish I did when I first got my 10 gallon kit. I hated the filter and eventually gave away the hood as well lol.

I highly suggest an adjustable heater, 50 watts should do it. You never know when you're going to need to adjust your heater for when disease attack (pray it's not so!) so it's better to get it now than wish you hadn't. If you can buy off of the web here's a great site and a great heater to get, it's pretty recommended around here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+11368&pcatid=11368 The 50Watt is good.

And then I know Wal-mart sells a nice 20 dollar LED hood which will be fairly good if you want to grow some low light plants like Java Fern, Anubias, Water Sprite, Water Wisteria, Vallisneria, and Anacharis. Or you can get one at the Pet store if you like, those will pretty much be the same hood you get with your kit.

And for filters, I actually use a AquaTech 5-15 on my 10 gallon, it's from Wal-mart. Generally you'll like a filter rated for higher gallons for tanks but if it's just a Betta and a snail or two the filter I mentioned would be fine. And baffles are the best invensions for Betta's since they like nice calm water's.

There are two filter baffles you can actually make yourself, here's a water bottle baffle which I use all the time: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30139
And a sponge baffle, it doesn't give a step-by-step but if you read the comments you can pretty much figure it out: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=56100

With all that said, you can certainly get any of the kits they offer, that up there was just my advice on the matter and my experience :-D

As far as foods go: don't use Freeze-Dried anything except for maybe a treat once a week, many people think Freeze-dried Bloodworms are great for Betta's because they are high in protein. While yes, they are high in protein it lacks all other nutrition that Betta's need, they also need varied diets like we do! So many people on here and other places suggest New Life Spectrum Betta pellets or Omega One Betta Pellets. I personally use both and find that my Betta's love NLS more, however I do vary up the feedings every now and then :-D

And for water conditioners, Prime has been a very good conditioner and many people swear by it! It not only neutrifies the chlorine and heavy metals in your tap but also converts ammonia for 48 hours until the tank can work it's magic.

That's another thing, Cycling. I suggest you do a Fish-less cycle on your 10 gallon before putting your boy in there. There is a thread on the Nitrogen Cycle in the Betta Habitat section, it's a sticky so it's right at the top.

And no, it's not cruel to keep him in a 1 gallon. It's cruel if you don't do water changes, but he'll be happy in there until your other tank is ready! For his tank now though, I suggest doing two 100% changes on his tank every week to keep the ammonia down so it doesn't hurt him. Make sure you acclimate him back to his new water, also try to make the water as close to his tank temp. If you need, run a thermometer under the tap to get the exact temp. (I accidentally fried my first fish, so that's why I always make sure to say that lol)

Now, this! is a long post lol


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Shellieca posted some very great advice!! 

Plants can be a pain, but as long as you keep up with water changes and give them the respective nutrients (I use Envy, but I know that Evolve is another great brand) then they will be fine. Dirt and sand substrate is always a winning combo, but this can male the tank appear dirtier than one with simply rocks. Plants can easily sink their roots into gravel, though, so dirt isn't mandatory.


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## Rosewynn (Apr 9, 2013)

The one gallon isn't cruel, since it won't be forever IMO. It's a great upgrade from the cup! Just make sure you keep up on the water changes until you get your larger tank.

My betta's will sometimes swim like maniacs and then just go still every now and again. It sounds like he's just getting use to his new tank and environment. Like the user said above me I would take out the filter and just stick to more frequent water changes. If you think he might be a little stressed I would reduce light and traffic (IE humans walking around or other pets) exposure for most of the day by covering him partially up with a towel. I usually do this with my new bettas for about a week give or take depending on the fish.

It could be because he's a little cold but honestly to me that just sounds like normal new tank behavior. Even in my heated tanks my new fish will act like that.


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

*Carlson has been doing stuff that I'm unsure is natural for a Betta or if I should be concerned. He swims sometimes but at times he lies really still on the gravel and then he swims up, like hes doing now and has been doing the whole day, to behind the filter where he just floats in the little crevasse and doesn't come out. should I be concerned that he doesn't want to swim around much and hide behind a filter? I got him a little place to hide and some decor plants but he just goes up their and looks like he dead ;_; could it be something wrong with the tank maybe the waters not good or something? the filter might be strong or the waters not good? I just hope he's not sick because of my lack of experience in fish care * How strong is the filter? I don't think that it will be very beneficial in a 1 gallon tank, especially since it can take weeks to establish beneficial bacteria. I'd recommend turning it off for now. His water may also be cold. My fishies used to do that before I bought them heaters. It could also just be his personality, like Hadoken Kitty said. 

*I bought a few books today on Betta care which I'll be reading all night lol I hate not knowing especially when it comes to the care of a living creature
* Great! Which ones did you buy? I highly recommend the Animal Planet book _Aquarium Care of Bettas_

*also because I'm going to buy his new home and all what kind of tank should I get him? in 20 gal ok? or will that overwhelm him as an only fish and get a 10 gal? any suggestions on water conditioners? or other supplies I should get? Im so new at this so I want to get him the best stuff I possibly can* 5 gallons is a nice size for a single betta. Some of the members here give their betta a 20 gallon to itself, but I've found it to be a waste of space. you will be spending way less on a 5 gallon anyway. You can get him a 10 gallon though if you like, I find these to be nice as well.  The supplies I'd recommend are:
*
Adjustable aquarium heater.* _Make absolute sure_ that you can adjust the temperature.

*Aquarium filter.* If you get a power filter, then you'll need to baffle it somehow so that the flow isn't too strong. Some power filters have a knob for this purpose, but some don't so you may need to baffle it with a *filter sponge* made for aquariums.

*Algae scraper.* Use this to scrape algae from the tank walls.

*Gravel vacuum/siphon.* Use this to remove water from the tank, as well as get some of the waste out from under the gravel.

*Aquarium net.* This is needed to move your fish.

*API Stress Coat+ water conditioner.* This contains aloe vera, so it will help lower your fish's stress level.

*Aquarium gravel.* 

*Live or silk aquarium plants.* Live are best, but silk plants are a good substitute. If you get live plants, make sure they are fully aquatic, because otherwise they can rot. If you get silk plants, run a magnet all over them to see if they contain metal. If you feel any tug at all, don't buy it. It's also a good idea to run a pair of pantyhose over the plants. If it catches, then your betta's fins will too. 

*Products to avoid:*


Anything by Penn Plax. This is an untrustworthy brand and should be avoided.

Anything with the word "fix" in its name. bettafix, melafix, and pimafix all contain an oil that can coat a betta's labyrinth organ (basically a lung) and suffocate it.


Good luck with Carlson, and I hope this helps!
Saphira


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

Whoops! Everyone got here before me!


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## Melodica (Dec 2, 2012)

Like others have suggested, the filter can probably be removed. He may be wedging himself behind the filter because he's tired from the current.

Tanks:
I would suggest 5 or 10g. I have both and they are easy to maintain. 
Walmart actually has a pretty good 5g kit for $27. I have two of them and there's a betta in one that's very happy. Just make sure to turn down the flow on the filter in any tank that you get and watch the intake. You can put panty hose over it to make sure that your boy's long fins don't get caught in it. (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Culture-Aquarium-Starter-Kit-5-gal-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/20693704)

Heaters:
I have these (the 100w) heaters in my 10g tanks (http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-06104-...&qid=1370140771&sr=8-1&keywords=aqueon+heater) and they keep the tanks between 78-82 depending on the setting.
In my 5g, I have this (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater-50-Watts-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/12177656). It keeps the tank at a constant 78 degrees. It's not adjustable though - if you're willing to spend more money, I would suggest something that you can adjust.

Thermometers:
Don't use the stick on thermometers. Get one that goes inside the tank. Any pet store sells these and they're all pretty much the same. 

Plants:
Places like Petco and Petsmart sell pretty nice silk plants to put in your tank if you don't want to go with live plants.

So there's my two cents!  Good luck with whatever you get. When you get it setup, post pics - we love seeing everyone's tanks!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

*Shellieca*: thanks for the advice!! I just unplugged the filter and he's swimming around a bit more. I'm thinking I'll get a 10 it cost less so ill be able to buy a good filter and heater and such

*lilnaugrim:* it's definitely long lol but you've given me alot of good adivce! writing all this down for when I go shopping I know what to look for lol yeah Im thinking 10 gal since hes an only fish and it'll be cheaper so I can get some good equipment for it. WATER CHANGES I JUST DONT GET THEM! ive tried but like 10% 25% and 50% water change I dont even know how much water is 10% lol I dont know how to change it and what not ive looked up videos but it just doesn't help cause I dont think I need a vaccum do I? I know ill be changing this water soon and I dont have a clue X__x do I take him out when doing these changes? and 100% I just dump it all? lol Its probably not as complicated as Im making it out to be

*Hadoken Kitty:* thanks! I might wait on real plants until I get the hang of tank cleaning and become more experienced but I'l keep that in mind!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh okay!

So think of it this way, you've got ten gallons. 10% of 10 gallons is 1 gallon. So you'd be taking out one gallon, of course the only real way to measure that is if you've got a 1 gallon container or a bucket that has measurements on the side.

Yes you'll need a siphon too! Don't get one that's too big, I think I've got the 8 inch one and that one works great, it's by Aqueon.

So weekly water changes depends on the size of the tank, generally a 1 gallon has to be change more often because waste builds up much quicker. One Betta poop is going to contaminate the 1 gallon faster than if it was in the 10 gallon. Make sense?

So while he's in the 1 gallon, do two changes a week, both at 100%. What you want to do is get a plastic cup of any sort, I also use wal-mart plastic ware. You can get three for a buck and some change. I got the circular wal-mart band ones with screw on lids and they come in very handy!

So make sure any of the stuff you use for your fish does not have soap in it, that's very toxic. So before a water change, take your cup and scoop out your fish, generally they're pretty curious about it so that makes it easy. Make sure to scoop out some water with it as well, fill the cup about half way. Set him aside.

Take out any decoration, you can run it under tap but even if it's slimy, you don't need to rub it off. If you've got any Beneficial Bacteria growing in your tank (that's what you are growing when you do a Cycle. The Beneficial bacteria or BB is what keeps the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrates down to keep your fish safe), anyway they grow on the surfaces of your tank, ornaments and filter, not in the water.

Note the temperature and dump the water, rinse out whatever you want. And fill back up with the same temperature water. As I said, you can run a thermometer under the tap to make sure it's around the same temp. (Betta's need temperatures from 76-82, so a constant temperature is good in any of that area). Use your water conditioner and replace all your stuff.

Float your boy, still in his cup, in the new water. Wait about 15 minutes and slowly add in some new water to his cup. Add in about 2 tablespoons every 10-15 minutes for about 45-60 minutes. Then you can gently release him back into his tank.

Water changes on bigger tanks work the same except you siphon out the water into a bucket. I have a 3 gallon bucket from Wal-mart called a "Large Bucket" lol, I think you can find them in the house-ware section. So I know half of 10 gallons is 5 gallons so when I want to take out 50%, I use 2 of those buckets filled at 2.5 gallons (I don't want to fill it all the way up because i have to lift it to the sink and that would be a pain if it was sloshing everywhere)

I think I covered that all


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

SORRY GUYS! when I posted I saw that there were new post! I don't mean to look like I'm ignoring them I just don't see new post until I post the one Im writing I apologize!

*Rosewynn:* good to know its normal for him to play dead and scare the living crap out of me lolol Im glad its a natural thing and that hes not sick or anything. hes swimming around more now that the filters gone I think that was his main problem. the water was super warm when I got home from work this morning and sadly I dont have a themometer yet (I will obtain one one monday!) so I cant tell how his water is. my digital thermometer in my fan says my rooms 80 degrees so im hoping his waters about the same. he stays in my room usually im the only person around I dont let other pets in my room especially cats since they'll try to attack my poor Betta. thanks for the advice!!

*Saphira101:* I bought that exact book lol I turned it off Im just afraid all that still waters going to create bacteria. does this mean I should do a 100% water change sooner than a week now that the filters off? thanks for the advice and suggestions! 

*Melodica:* yeah I noticed he was getting sucked in by the filter so its a good thing its off. thats probably what it was though cause he's calmer now probably why he was flailing his fins at me earlier before he went behind the filter like "OMGTURNTHISTHINGOFFIHATEIT" lol thanks for the advice! 5 gal sounds good but I'm thinking maybe 10 so I can decorate and give him more space and water changes are a bit easier with more volume and more room for the harmful stuff to dilute. thanks for the advice!!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

*lilnaugrim:* it makes a little more sense! the 100% one does I do get the half cleanings and how I go about that so I just leave the half the water in the tank take out 50% dump it and then get 50% (however I measure that lol) and should I water condition it before or after I dump it in the tank of already half filled old water.

for any cleaning do I take out the fish or only for the 100%? and I kept the plastic he came in is that ok or do I need something smaller/bigger? and do I put water conditoner in the cup or will he be fine with just water and no conditioner?

as for my gravel I just take it out rise it and put it back or do I through it out and put new gravel? and how often should I replace gravel?

why are partial water changes done and not just a 100% change everytime? cause partial water changes are what I cant seem to understand the whole vaccuming thing I tried Youtube'ing it but everyone had fancy onces that connected to their faucets and it was just confusing


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

*I turned it off Im just afraid all that still waters going to create bacteria. does this mean I should do a 100% water change sooner than a week now that the filters off? thanks for the advice and suggestions! *

You're very welcome! :-D

Since your filter is not cycled, there is no beneficial bacteria (BB), and since the bacteria's not there, the filter was basically doing nothing other than creating a strong current. Therefore, you can do your water changes regularly, and your fishy won't be bothered by the water flow.

Does that make sense?


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> *lilnaugrim:* it makes a little more sense! the 100% one does I do get the half cleanings and how I go about that so I just leave the half the water in the tank take out 50% dump it and then get 50% (however I measure that lol) and should I water condition it before or after I dump it in the tank of already half filled old water.
> ALWAYS use water conditioner, just use enough for the 50% you change out. If using Prime, it won't hurt to dose for the full tank volume.
> 
> for any cleaning do I take out the fish or only for the 100%? and I kept the plastic he came in is that ok or do I need something smaller/bigger? and do I put water conditoner in the cup or will he be fine with just water and no conditioner?
> ...


...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you're doing a 100% water change, that means ALL the water goes. So yes, you'd have to take him out and his little cup is fine. The water that he is in right now should have conditioner in it so no worries about that. It's when you get new water that you use your conditioner.

In a 1 gallon I would take them out regardless of what you're changing because there is a chance he can jump out and...well that wouldn't be good.

But again, this is just for your 1 gallon. As shellieca was pointing out, any tank larger you don't need to do 100% changes.

In your 10 gallon, once it's set up and has gone through the cycling process, you'll only have to take out 25% of the water weekly, sometimes I take out as much as 50% if I feel it's really dirty. So that part is up to you, but you definitely need at least _one_ water change a week for the 10 gallon.

When you're going to fill up your tank again, you're getting water from your tap and filling a bucket of some sort, that's when you add in your water conditioner. If you add in your water conditioner to the tank after you've filled it up, the chlorine and heavy metals would have a chance to hurt your fish.

Back to the 1 gallon (sorry I'm skipping around), so you've taken out your fish. He's sitting in his little cup with some old tank water. You unplug his heater/filter/light what have you and then you take the tank of water to the sink. I remove decoration, run it under tap and sit it on a towel or paper towel. Then I pour out the old water, careful your gravel doesn't all come out. Then once the water is out, I take the gravel and pour it into a bowl to rinse it out like shellieca instructed.

Once that's done you sit the tank under your tap and fill up with regular tap water, make sure it's around the same temperature! Once it's done filling or filled to your desired height, add in your conditioner. Then add in your gravel and decorations. Your tank is ready again for your boy!

Go set back up the tank, put the heater back in (I left the filter in mine just to give him a little bit of shelter from the light, but I didn't plug it in) Then float your boy's cup in his water, let him get used to the temp for about 15 minutes. If there's a couple degree's off that's fine, just let him get used to it.

After the 15-20 minutes are up, you can start adding new water to his cup so that he can get used to any changes (sometimes pH and fluctuate or other things like that, so best to always acclimate your Betta). After 30-45 minutes of acclimation is done, you can gently release your boy into his tank that has been cleaned!

I hope that helps a little more :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Thanks* Shellieca*, *Saphria101*, and *lilnaugrim*! it helped a little more I definitely have the 100% water change down. as for the partial do you just guess around how much is 10% 25% and 50%? and its sucked up with the vacuum into a bucket? then I just dump it, fill the bucket with new water condition it (is there a way to make it the same temp or does it matter pouring a slightly different temperature of water into the half filled tank with the fish in it? and for partial water changes to clean gravel I just put it along the bottom and suck up what I can of old food and stuff? for large tanks or 10 gal specifically you don't ever do 100%? just partial correct?

I noticed a lot of you mentioned cycling. what is that exactly?


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Sometimes larger tanks will be required to be broken down and completely cleaned out. I.E.: If a fish gets terminally ill and dies, then the tank will need to be disinfected before any other fish can be put in there to prevent spread of disease.


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

Here is a link to a GREAT thread about cycling: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

thank you so much!!!


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

You're welcome!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you need more help with cycling you can PM me and I can try to explain it a little more ^^


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> Thanks* Shellieca*, *Saphria101*, and *lilnaugrim*! it helped a little more I definitely have the 100% water change down. as for the partial do you just guess around how much is 10% 25% and 50%? and its sucked up with the vacuum into a bucket? then I just dump it, fill the bucket with new water condition it (is there a way to make it the same temp or does it matter pouring a slightly different temperature of water into the half filled tank with the fish in it? and for partial water changes to clean gravel I just put it along the bottom and suck up what I can of old food and stuff? for large tanks or 10 gal specifically you don't ever do 100%? just partial correct?
> 
> I noticed a lot of you mentioned cycling. what is that exactly?


I would suggest having 2 buckets the same size. One is strictly for used tank water & the other for new. Make sure to mark one of them in some way so you know which is which. So here's what I do, I have 2 5g buckets which is half of my 10g tank volume. I fill my new water bucket to about an 1" or 2" below the the top rim with temp matched, by feel, water, add my Prime then set it close to the tank I'm doing the water change. I then unplug the heater, filter & remove the tank hood. Then syphon/vacuum the tank & make sure to watch the bucket now being filled with used tank water, when its the same level or close to the one with new water I stop or I stop when I almost overfill the bucket. Refill the tank with the new water, sometimes I have to add just a little bit more. I plug in the heater, clean up my mess & then plug in the filter. I have just done a 50% water change on my 10g tank. My water changes are always 40-50%, i find them easier. Unless your tank gets infected with some really bad disease there should be no reason for a 100% water change.


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

shellieca said:


> I would suggest having 2 buckets the same size. One is strictly for used tank water & the other for new. Make sure to mark one of them in some way so you know which is which. So here's what I do, I have 2 5g buckets which is half of my 10g tank volume. I fill my new water bucket to about an 1" or 2" below the the top rim with temp matched, by feel, water, add my Prime then set it close to the tank I'm doing the water change. I then unplug the heater, filter & remove the tank hood. Then syphon/vacuum the tank & make sure to watch the bucket now being filled with used tank water, when its the same level or close to the one with new water I stop or I stop when I almost overfill the bucket. Refill the tank with the new water, sometimes I have to add just a little bit more. I plug in the heater, clean up my mess & then plug in the filter. I have just done a 50% water change on my 10g tank. My water changes are always 40-50%, i find them easier. Unless your tank gets infected with some really bad disease there should be no reason for a 100% water change.


So, I use a 2 gallon water jug and bucket (as my tank sizes vary from either being my 20gal NPT or my 3.5gal NPTs). Other than that, this is usually what I do. Though I need to replace the NPTs more often than not due to evaporation. That's why I like NPTs, though....I haven't had water quality issues since switching over, and the larger NPT tanks don't need as many water changes.

OldFishLady did a GREAT water change recommendation thread on here that I highly suggest looking up. =D It includes both naturally and non-naturally planted tanks (plastic decor only).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hadoken Kitty said:


> So, I use a 2 gallon water jug and bucket (as my tank sizes vary from either being my 20gal NPT or my 3.5gal NPTs). Other than that, this is usually what I do. Though I need to replace the NPTs more often than not due to evaporation. That's why I like NPTs, though....I haven't had water quality issues since switching over, and the larger NPT tanks don't need as many water changes.
> 
> OldFishLady did a GREAT water change recommendation thread on here that I highly suggest looking up. =D It includes both naturally and non-naturally planted tanks (plastic decor only).


Yup, in the stickies! Here it is: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=115758


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

thanks *Hadoken Kitty* and *Lilnaugrim*! Ill definitely check that out!

*Shellieca:* thats makes it easier I'll make sure to stop by a walmart or some place that sells 5g buckets 

water changes make a lot more sense to me now! Youtube just made it look complicated lol

Later today im going to go buy all the new tank supplies and tank. I know for some fish you have to let the tank filter and stuff for 5-7 days or so before adding fish. is that the same with my betta? or can I just put him in today once everything's set up? after letting him float above the water for a while to get used to it. He's refusing food now so hopefully the water/tank change later will help him. hopefully its not him getting picky I really dont want to feed him worms and stuff especially after reading the thread on the user who had to euthanize his fish because of the blockage of the blackworm. I want to get his treats but pellets are the safe way to go imo lol unless theres a brand of something you guys have tried that wont harm them? i dont want to always give him boring pellets but I also dont want to buy a random brand of bloodworms or brine shrimp that could kill him.
He created a large bubble nest last night and I feel horrible having to wash out all his hard work ;A;


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> thanks *Hadoken Kitty* and *Lilnaugrim*! Ill definitely check that out!
> 
> *Shellieca:* thats makes it easier I'll make sure to stop by a walmart or some place that sells 5g buckets
> 
> ...


Bloodworms won't kill him it's just that Freeze-dried (anything) can cause some constipation issues is all. Which can be remedied with either Epsom salt (it's a laxative in humans and fish!) or with a day or two of fasting (no food)

Okay, time to explain the Nitrogen cycle! So when you hear of people letting their tank run for 24 hours (or in your case 5-7 days) that's absolutely doing nothing for your tank or fish. In fact, yes it's a good way to make sure your equipment is working but it's doing nothing for the Nitrogen cycle.

The nitrogen cycle is when you grow a colony of Beneficial Bacteria or BB. Those BB is what keeps your fish safe from ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Ammonia, as I'm sure you know is fish waste, but it's not just poop. Fish also excrete waste from their gills and into the water so even if he's not pooping, he's still expelling waste in some form or another.

Soooo instead of doing 10 million water changes every week, we do this thing called a Nitrogen Cycle.

It's going to take about a month for a cycle to happen, you can do this with your fish in there (although it's going to be a little stressful on your fish) or you can do it without your fish. But either way you do it, you're going to need a source of ammonia to feed your BB.

So your BB eats ammonia, and then they convert it to nitrites which are then converted to nitrate. Make sense so far? So if you do this with your fish, that is your source of ammonia (his poop) or if you do it the fish-less method you're either going to find a bottle of pure ammonia (100% no additives or surfactants in it) or you can get a raw shrimp from the market (probably the easiest method for fish-less cycling) and pop it into your tank. I suggest getting some sort of mesh or pantyhose that you can put it into it because it does rot so eventually you'll have to take it out.

Here is the link to the cycling that we had given before: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=111960 from there you can read and figure out which method you want to do.

Of course, ask more questions if anything is confusing and I can explain it a little more!! :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Is it better for me to do the fishless method? Id much rather put him in the tank today if I can just cause I hate seeing him in that small tank that I have to change out today cause its gotten pretty filthy though I thought Id wait until I have the new tank but if its better for me to cycle it for a month without him Id do it now cause he not a happy fish at the moment and I don't blame him with all that old food and stuff in there. 

I also read that when using a new tank I have to do more frequent water changes at the beginning and then later I can do the normal regime of water changes? 

I think Ill wait on feeding him anything other than pellets until I learn more about that stuff he'll just have to learn not to be a picky eater lol


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

It wouldn't let me edit so Ill have to double post...

I read about the choices of Nitrogen Cycling. Fish Method probably isn't good cause it might kill him but the pure ammonia is toxic and the shrimp will rot and could produce moulds that can cause disease. they all have really bad cons and makes me nervous on using any of the methods.

I like the Fish in Cycle Idea but that means I have to check stuff with my testing kit for a long time and Im leaving on vacation for a week and no one else in this house knows how to do that stuff so cycling right now might have to wait until I get back cause all of the methods require close watch which I can't do. I kinda want to bring my fish with me on this trip I'm nervous to leave it alone with REALLY inexperienced people and if something happens I wont be there to take care of him.

which brings another question (I apologize in advance that Im going to be asking quite a few questions ^^ can I travel with him in his 1 gal tank for a 4 to 5 hour car ride? I wont be driving so I can hold on and watch the tank. 

also cause Im moving practically cross country in august by then he'll be in his new tank. will he be able to survive a 10-12 hour car ride in his small 1 gal tank after getting used to 10 gal? and will I have to repeat the Nitrogen cycle again when I get to the new place since Ill have to clean it out and pull it apart for the move.

Ill buy the new tank today but because I can't avoid a nitrogen cycle Ill wait to put him in there until I settle down and I know Im not going anywhere for at least a month.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

As far as driving, you can certainly hold onto him in his little tank! I would even put him back in a little cup so that it doesn't have a chance to slosh everywhere. If you do use the tank, fill it less than half way so it doesn't slosh and then put saran wrap over top so it keeps the heat in, makes it easier for him to breathe and doesn't let the water out (you can rubberband it in place)

Okay, doing the ammonia or the shrimp way, you don't have your fish in there. Hence Fish-less lol. After the cycle is done, you take the shrimp out and the ammonia is eaten up by your BB so there's no harm done to your fish. It will sometimes take less time too.

There something else you can do if you really want him in there. You can buy some TSS, Tetra SafeStart. It's not guaranteed to work all the time but there's a good chance it will. Basically it's Bacteria in a bottle, so much of it in one space that it keeps your fish safe while you cycle your tank and only takes about two weeks as well. If you do this method, buy the smallest bottle and you'll pour the whole thing in (It goes bad if you try to save it and the more bacteria the better!) and then keep the lights off for two weeks so that your boy isn't stressed out even more. Don't do a water change until two weeks are up.

Then you can test your water and if everything comes up zero, you should be good. However you can test around the 7th day to make sure that it's actually working (everything should be 0)


OOOOrrrr lol you can do a Silent Cycle. This is my personal favorite because I love real plants and so do my Betta's. For most of them there's really nothing special you have to do, so don't worry. Basically you just get a bunch of plants, stuff them in your tank and let them work their magic. They act as a buffer against the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for your Betta. And if you get them from already cycled tanks, they are also carrying BB from those tanks! So that's great and then the cycle happens but it happens silently and for a longer period of time. But you'll never know because it's silent ^^

Some great low light plants and good for the cycle are as follows:
Java Fern (slow grower, low light)
Java Moss (fast grower, low light)
Water Wisteria (low light, very fast grower)
Anacharis (low light, very fast grower) Note: you may have to acclimate this to a higher temperature water if it comes in a tube or something since it's naturally a colder water plant but does fine in higher temps)
Water Sprite (great floater, low light, fast grower)
Crypts (most can grow in low lights [some red plants will just grow green in lower lights], moderate grower)
Anubias (slow grower, low light)

and most of those plants can be found anywhere. Careful with Java Fern and Anubias, you just don't want to bury the rhizome which is where the leaves come from but the roots can be buried. They will also grow on objects like rocks/driftwood/even filter intake hoses lol.

And if you do, you can get a liquid fertilizer (super easy, I use API LeafZone, you can also get SeaChem's Flourish [not flourish excel though, that's something different]) and instead of dosing it once a week, I do half a dose twice a week so it's two small meals. But since I love plants, I always do a Silent Cycle and not have to worry about anything since the plants gobble everything up :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I like the Idea of the silent cycle. its can be used in place of the nitrogen cycle correct? they sell live plants at the store im going to so I'll pick some up while im there  so I get any of the ones listed and just put them in my tank? is there a thread on how to put them in the gravel? or do I just cover the roots or is their something I have to buy for that. also the fetilizer doesnt harm the fish when added to the water?


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

it's a special type; both envy and evolve are great brands.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What's a special type Hadoken?

No the liquid fert won't hurt your fishies, just don't over dose is all. But if you split up the dose between the week, your plants would like that.

Also you have to make sure you have enough plants, you can't just take one or two and expect to have the cycle complete. I would suggest at least two Java ferns/anubias two bunches of anacharis if you can get it. If not, two bunches of Water wisteria will be good. You want the fast growers in there so that they can suck up all the nutrients and stuff like that.

No it's not a replace for the Nitrogen cycle, it's just another way to do it. Fish-In, Fish-less, and Silent Cycle are all different _ways_ of completing the Nitrogen cycle.

As far as planting goes, you can just shove the roots right in the gravel, if they come with a lead weight, you can either keep that on them or take it off to plant each stem individually. Sometimes they'll float back up but you'll get used to shoving them back into the gravel lol

Just as I said before, with Java Fern and Anubias do not plant the rhizome into the gravel, that part stays above gravel. Or you can tie it to a piece of driftwood or something :-D you can use regular old thread if you like.

Oh before you put any plant in, if they've got gel or cotton in the roots just remove those objects from the roots and throw those away. Give the plant a rinse under some tap to loosen any other gravel or debris might be in there. You can also give the roots a little trim (keep enough of the roots so that it can anchor itself into the gravel, maybe 1.5-2 inches is good) and it stimulates new growth!

So if you want a nice planted tank I'd got for at least 10-15 plants all together (so each stem of the plant counts) for a 10 gallon. Of course, the more plants the better! And the more safe your Betta will be, mind you it can get a bit expensive at first but once they start growing you won't have to worry too much about buying new plants unless you want to!

Once you do put the plants in you can start right away on your weekly scheduled water changes anywhere from 25-50% of the water each week. So I mostly do mine on Saturday and from the 10 gallon I take out two buckets (So I have a 3 gallon bucket but only take out 2.5 gallons so it's easier to haul. So I'm taking out 50% of the water since 5 gallons are half of 10 :-D)

Something else to mention (sorry I skip all over the place sometimes!) is that plants will sometimes "melt" in your tank, don't be discouraged! This is your plant trying to get used to the new water chemistry. So they will melt their leaves but they will come back after a while once they're fully used to their new tank! If you can, get plants that already come from a tank. The ones you get at Petco/Petsmart in the tubes are grown out of water so they are guaranteed to melt when first placed in the water and it's no fun. So if you've got an LFS (local fish store) that sells plants, that would be the best place to go!

You can also shop online, I like ThatPetPlace.com's plants, nice selection generally and the shipping prices aren't half bad for live stuff. But of course that still has to be shipped and won't be at your house right away unlike if you went to the petstore :-D


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

I was saying that the liquid fert is a special type. As in it isn't wise to just go to a plant place and purchase just any fertilizer...there are special aquarium ferts that are designed for fish.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh oh okay yeah, I was confuzzled lol


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh oh okay yeah, I was confuzzled lol


LOL xD Its okay. I wasn't very clear.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I completely forgot about fertilizer! I'll pick some up this week. i was so busy getting everything I forgot. and I didn't get many plants just because I walked up and their were a bajillion different java ferns and Anubias that I didn't know which to pick and I took pictures to make sure there safe before I begin putting this tank together. and yeah their the melt plants in a tube lol there aren't many fish stores around here that I know of I think there was one I saw thats an hour drive in one of our malls but the areas not big on nice fish stores. How long can my plants go without this fertilizer? should I go pick it up asap?? 

the pictures are a little blurred 

I got 3 plants for now cause I wasn't sure if they were the correct ones. if they are Ill go back and get more

Narrow Leaf Java Fern (2-4 Count) <-- would that mean it contains 2 to 4 or is it just one plant in a tube?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1291.jpg

Anubias Congensis (1 count)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1289.jpg

Water Wisteria (2-4 count)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1290.jpg

I also got this stuff

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1285.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1284.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1283.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1282.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1281.jpg

A 10 gal tank (not starter kit) so it came with the hood and tank and I bought the rest separately. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1287.jpg

These are the lights. there not LED I don't think but it was all they had that would fit the hood. it says for freshwater and live plants aquarium lamp natural daylight fluorescent. probably not good but I can always return them and get something elsewhere but thats all they had at the store and I needed lights ): its Marineland. on the back it says ideal to enhance coloration in fish and promote live plant growth in freshwater aquariums. I hoping its not going to overheat the fish its 10 watt each so 20 watts total for my 10 gal tank is that fry my betta? it also says cause its flourescent it contains mercury thats lovely. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/Bakuralover/Fish/100MEDIA_IMAG1288.jpg

showing what i got to get the ok from the experts before I put my fish with any of it

also I bought gravel from Petco when I bought my fish and I went to Petsmart to get the stuff cause the stores closer and I bought top fin gravel is it ok to mix the leftover petco gravel with the top fin or not to mix?


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Sunset (my avatar) for the first bit acted normal in his tank, but after a week he started acting like you described. I tried everything under the sun to figure out what the heck was wrong with him. Well my very last thing I tried was turning off the filter and TADA! By the morning he was pretty much back to his old self. Before I got my 40 gal on friday, this was one of two tanks I was considering. But upgrading the filter to a more betta friendly one. 
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aquaculture-Home-Starter-Kit-10-Aquarium-1kt-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10312734


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

This was the other one. Smaller, but still bigger. 
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hawkeye-5...uorescent-Lighting-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/14660258


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yay everything you bought looks magnificent! Darn...you're making my fish jealous lol

So for the plants, the 2-4 count on the java fern just means there are 2-4 leaves generally but some could have grown in as well. The tube plants are fine, I just wanted to warn you about the melting is all but those are hardy plants so they should do just fine :-D

Oh yes and I forgot to warn you about how many different plants there are lol, sorry about that. But yes all the plants you got are good, I would still get some more fast growing plants though because Java Fern and Anubias are both slow growers (which are good still!). So maybe another tube of Water Wisteria would be good, perhaps the medium-large size ones if they have them?

But yes, all those plants are great and no you don't need fertilizer right away. They will actually do fine without fertilizer but it will certainly help keep them healthier :-D

The lights won't fry your Betta ^^ no worries. And the fluorescent ones are good, I find my plants love to grow under fluorescents. Can you find a Kelvin rating on the lights? It should be marked and be like a '6,500K' number. 20 Watts is perfectly good for a 10 gallon! You could go all the way up to 60 watts and it still won't burn you boy, at that wattage though you'd be paying more and it would just heat up the water a little. But you don't need a 60 Watt to grow plants, I was just giving an example. That hood will do just fine!

And yes you can mix gravel! Oh boy, I'd be in so much trouble if you couldn't hahah, yeah that's fine to do ^^ Usually it's good to have 2 pounds per gallon (so in the 10 you'd have 20 pounds) but I usually just fill it up to 1.5-2 inches of gravel, sometimes I use more and make hills and stuff to make it look a little more interesting


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Wow ignore me. I didn't see that there was 3 other pages. LOL


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol I was going to ask if you had seen them haha that's okay Lights :-D good suggestions though ;-)


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

*Lilnaugrim:*

haha you should of seen the total I was like "this fish is spoiled I spend more on him than I do on myself" but he deserves the best especially after how he was when I rescued him from that poorly maintained pet store ): I got a few decor but the total was already a lot so I plan on getting more silk plants, decor, and other stuff later. they have more silk variety at Petco so I wanted to wait and get the stuff there. Petsmart seems to only carry mostly plastic :/

thats good to know! I can start putting this together! ill pick up more plants now that I know there all good and yes they had the super large tubes I just didn't buy them cause I wasn't certain if these were good plants to use. I probably go by tomorrow and pick up a few more and see if they have fertilizers there. 

yep! it says 5100K each light so there 2 lights so thats 10,200K total for the 10 gal tank.

great! cause I have a half of a 5 lb and I bought a 25 lb today so it should be more than enough 

the hood though has an opening but Im afraid if I keep it open he'll jump out but if i close it he might not get oxygen? ill take a picture it you like me to

as for primer how much should I put of the Prime water conditioner? and I can add it after I put the water into the tank correct? I also got a small bottle of the API stresscoat+ someone suggested on here that he has aloe and is good for the fins and reduces stress so I might use that later down the road

*Lights106:* Its fine! I appreciate everyones input,suggestions, and advice to help me while I get more experienced with these little fishes


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> *Lilnaugrim:*
> 
> haha you should of seen the total I was like "this fish is spoiled I spend more on him than I do on myself" but he deserves the best especially after how he was when I rescued him from that poorly maintained pet store ): I got a few decor but the total was already a lot so I plan on getting more silk plants, decor, and other stuff later. they have more silk variety at Petco so I wanted to wait and get the stuff there. Petsmart seems to only carry mostly plastic :/
> 
> ...


Yeah hear you on spending more on fish than on yourself. I really need more pants for work. Have I bought them? Nope!! My babies (both fish and 3 year old) are in need.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Lights106 said:


> Yeah hear you on spending more on fish than on yourself. I really need more pants for work. Have I bought them? Nope!! My babies (both fish and 3 year old) are in need.


children always come first! 

my fiancé made a comment the other day cause Im constantly worried about my fish and calling home while i'm away to make sure he's okay and putting him first and he says "your going to be a great mother" lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh gosh I know! I did pretty much the same shopping (plus a little more because I didn't know what I was doing) when I first got my 10 gallon kit and then the extras after I learned stuff lol

I find that Petco is more for livestock/plants (we still have a tank with plants in them) and Petsmart is for the supplies, they are generally cheaper. But I didn't learn that till down the road either.

5,100K is great! 6,500K is the closest to real sun so for live plants, around that is good! So what you have is good for low-moderate light plants, you could have some high light plants in there but they just might not do as well is all. But that's certainly good for most plants in the market!!

And oxygen will still be able to get through the hood and stuff, through holes where the filter fits and stuff like that. No worries he'll have plenty to breathe ^^

And for Prime generally it's one drop per gallon, there should be instructions on the back for how much teaspoon per 10 gallons? You can take that and divide it up to find out how much you need for a bucket of water.

Always use Prime/any water conditioner before you put it into the tank, so while you're filling your bucket up of water from the tap, that's when you add in your conditioner and then you can pour it into the tank.

Be careful when pouring, I don't know what size bucket you've got, but if you pour too fast you're going to knock everything out of it's place. You'll learn how to do it gently after a few tries ^^ And don't worry, your Betta will most definitely want to investigate the bubbles when you pour new water in and he will get blown around by them but he most likely won't get hurt. All my betta's do this and it boggles my mind as to why lol.

And yes! Stress Coat is great! I find that my HM in my avatar, Rembrandt, is always tearing his fins so I use Stress Coat for him and he heals up pretty quickly! I use it all the time in my sorority because someone's always got nipped fins lol

So yeah, so far it looks great! I'm really happy that I could help!


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

For the pouring I got a gallon size ziplock bag, soak it in hot water so that the water would be the same temp as in the tank (since I don't have a good spare heater for my fish water bucket) and the slowly put the bag in the water and it will slowly come out on it's own.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lights106 said:


> For the pouring I got a gallon size ziplock bag, soak it in hot water so that the water would be the same temp as in the tank (since I don't have a good spare heater for my fish water bucket) and the slowly put the bag in the water and it will slowly come out on it's own.


I don't know if you know this or if you use your tap, but you can run a thermometer under your tap to get the same temp as your tank. Then after conditioner it just goes right into the tank.

For some of my more sensitive fish, I use a plastic cup to scoop out water and gently let it into the tank so it doesn't cause stress. In my ten gallon though, I just pour it in lol, same with my 33. I only do the cup thing for my two 3 gallons and the 5.5 since they all have sand now and I don't feel like blowing the sand everywhere :-D and I'm certainly that Rembrandt would hate me lol


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I..forgot a bucket to .____. why why whsdjfhsdjfhsdfjkaf. I'll be picking some up tomorrow with fertilizer and plants then! I would use one I have but its been used for cleaning and I'd rather not risk if any chemicals are on them... so for a new tank I cant put the conditioner in tank? since Im filling it up completely with new water and not doing a partial water change?

I love buying stuff for him though and he gets all happy with his new stuff its cute :3 I don't mind spending on him  

it says 1 capful (5 mL) for every 50 gal (200 L) so 1 mL? 

bubbles? lol Bettas are so cute with some of the crazy stuff they try to do and you see me yelling at my tank "NO NO NO DONT DO THAT YOULL HURT YOUR SELF YOU CRAZY FISH! but your so cute" lol my life I cant be mad at my fish. they're so cute no matter what they do 

can I use stress coat with prime or is it a conditioner in itself and should be used separately? 

you've been a great help!!  Im getting more confident on my fish care taking skills. once I get cycling and water changes down once I start doing them I'll start to feel less nervous. don't want to harm the poor guy unintentionally


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I got a bucket at Wal-mart, it was labeled "Large Bucket" lol it's actually only an 11 liter bucket which is close enough to 3 gallons. Cheap enough too, any old bucket will do (hey that rhymed ;-))

Okay....maybe it would be better if you could find an eyedropper of sorts? I know for sure that it is 1 drop per gallon. 1 ml would be treating the whole 10 gallons, you only treat for the new water you put in. So if you're putting in 4 gallons, you use 4 drops. Something like this http://www.cvs.com/shop/product-detail/CVS-Eye-and-Ear-Medicine-Droppers?skuId=251606 so it would be easier to dose.

And the Stress Coat is a conditioner in and of itself so it can be used alone instead of Prime. You can use them together but there's usually not too much need unless you've got Ammonia in your tap and you're putting water into a very new aquarium (because the BB wouldn't be grown enough to eat the ammonia yet so Prime actually neutrifies Ammonia for 48 hours until the cycle can convert the ammonia to nitrites to nitrates for the plants to eat)


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

my new tanks completely empty so ill be filling it completely unless I should transfer some old water in his 1 gal tank if not could I just put it directly into the new tank with fully new water?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Nah, there's nothing good in his old water. All the BB sticks to the surfaces like glue so the only thing you'd be bringing over is fish poop lol

Oh for filling it for the first time, you can put a dinner plant on the gravel and pour your water there so it doesn't send your gravel flying! Also you're going to see lots of bubbles in the gravel and on the sides of the tank, after it's filled you can swish and swirl the gravel around with your finger so that it releases the air. Then scape it the way you want with your plants and decor.

Make sure you rinse those plants out before putting them in! The gel in there is non-toxic but it's not fun to fish out of your aquarium lol

I'd let it run a day or so just to make sure everything is working before putting your boy in, let all the bubbles escape and stuff :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

so I can just pour the primer directly into the tank when filling it for the first time?

dinner plant?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lmao, one of my lovely spelling mistakes again XD Dinner plate* is what that was supposed to be.

It's best if you place your tank where you want to keep it. Fill up a bucket of water from your tap, put the Prime in that container. And then pour that container of water into your tank. Repeat process until filled.

Always put conditioner into the water before you even think about putting it into the tank :-D otherwise, tap water can a) harm your fish b) kill off your BB.

So it needs to be treated before it goes into the tank.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

haha I seriously thought that was a type of plant to lol made my day XD

so I should wait until tomorrow then to set up the new tank cause I don't currently have any buckets ;__; Ill go ahead and do a 100% water change on his current tank since he wont be in the new one until the day after tomorrow


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lmao, that gave me a laugh XD certainly and interesting type of plant!! lol there was one time where I was supposed to be typing "...give them lots of plants so they can hide in them!" and I wrote pants instead of plants XD

Yeah, mind as well wait, accumulate more plants while you're at it lol You can put those plants in his tank now for the time being, he sure would love them and don't worry it's not going to "crowd" him either. I bet you, he'll be swimming in and out of those things and playing peek-a-boo with you lol


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

haha pants xD it is and its the most rarest plant to also sold in breakfast and lunch lol 

omg it is the hardest thing to scoop that little guy out! I felt bad picking him up and plopping him into a small cup where he spazzed ): cleaned the tank, cleaned the filter pad even though its turned off I wanted to get out the old stuff stuck in it, ornaments, gravel etc. new water + conditioner which using thermometer I got it somewhat close 80 verses 78 it just wouldn't become the same then his water he was in in the bowl was getting cold so I put him back into the water (the thing wouldn't float) so that was bad hopefully the conditioner did its job fast enough before I put him in. and the thermometer is tacked to the tank so I can monitor the temperature. and I was nervous thinking he was going to die of stress of randomly being scooped and thrown everywhere so you hear me running and clanking everything and cleaning as fast as I could so I could get him back in there. Im hoping the little change in temperature didn't shock him to much. first time cleaning a tank 100% O______o 

but he's swimming around doing his thing I think he's a little mad I did that stuff so abruptly but hopefully he's ok. Ill feed him a little later once he gets used to the new tank stuff


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> I don't know if you know this or if you use your tap, but you can run a thermometer under your tap to get the same temp as your tank. Then after conditioner it just goes right into the tank.
> 
> For some of my more sensitive fish, I use a plastic cup to scoop out water and gently let it into the tank so it doesn't cause stress. In my ten gallon though, I just pour it in lol, same with my 33. I only do the cup thing for my two 3 gallons and the 5.5 since they all have sand now and I don't feel like blowing the sand everywhere :-D and I'm certainly that Rembrandt would hate me lol


I've been under the impression that I should age the water.


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Lights106 said:


> I've been under the impression that I should age the water.


Aging the water is a trick usually used by people who do not have conditioner. This allows the chemicals to evaporate, but not all of the chemicals evaporate so it isn't very great. Some people like to give extra time for the conditioner to mix in, but it doesn't really matter.


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Phew!!! This makes things 10000000x easier. Sorry to deter from the Op! You learn something new each day!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I have a question to ask you guys. lately my betta hasn't been wanting to eat. the last time he ate anything was Sunday morning and is already Tuesday I tried giving him some new pellets but he wouldn't even try to eat them ): this worries me a little that he hasn't eaten for almost 2 days now. I changed the water yesterday so I don't know what could be wrong


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Could be an internal parasite. What does his poop look like?


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I don't see any in his tank I haven't seen any apparent poop in the tank since I got him


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

What was he like when your purchased him? I need to contact Linda Olson today anyways, so I'll ask what the names of the medicine was that she recommended to me. 

Hey....if you bought him and he was already in really bad shape...don't take it personally if one day he's dead when you find him...all fish die within 2-3 years (usually), and the sicker ones pass faster...I was able to keep a rescue male (who was on his side barely breeding) for a little over a month. I didn't think he was going to make it through the night, honestly. I came home one day after he was swimming perfectly fine that same day, and he was dead. So...sometimes they just can't make it. The best you can do is keep him comfortable... :/


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I got his on Friday (May 31st) He seemed normal he'd swim when I picked up the cup and swam around a lot curious of what was going on when I was driving back home. put him in his tank he didn't eat that whole day I thought maybe they fed him (probably not though the fish were poorly taken care of) or he was nervous of his new tank. the next day he was fine ate (though I fed him to much I gave him 3 pellets not knowing they only needed 1 .__.) he ate them and then never ate again up to this point he still hasn't touched anything. on Sunday he created the largest bubble nest so I figured he was fine swimming around and such. He stopped eating after saturday morning but I figured on Sunday it was because I might of overfed him on accident but he keep spitting up his little bubbles for his next and doing the usual so I thought nothing of it. then last night I cleaned out his tank and did what I did the first day and put him back in and he still hasn't eaten wont make much of a nest he'll spit bubbles every here and there but not much and he swims around rest and swims around again comes up for air and comes to see what I'm up to (like now lol) now he's usually in his corner at the top of the tank just floating up there in that one spot which is what he does most of the time now swims around and goes back to doing that again

I'm hoping maybe when I get his new tank set up with a heater that will keep the water at a constant 80 degrees and all that with live plants and stuff he'll be more willing to eat. 

But yes the pet store was poorly maintained when it came to the fish. the tanks were dirty lights were broken and not replaced algae growth browning water and millions of dead fish not taken out of the tanks with the others suffering from the decay. the baby bettas were all practically dead and the only ones that looked somewhat healthy were the older betas where I got Carl from. so I wouldn't be surprised if he did pass cause of something he might of gotten from that pet store. I honestly after the horror scene I saw at that store didn't think he'd make it through the weekend. I'm trying my best to give him a good life. I can't imagine losing a fish with such an amazing personality that always comes to greet me and come to give me company when Im at my desk. I wish pet stores weren't so ignorant to fish. they think these little guys need little to no attention and put them in plastic cups of tap water with no conditioner (the pet store I went to the associate was changing the water in the cups of the bettas I was getting and he didn't put any conditioner after he changed them and just plopped the fish into pure unconditioned tap) so thats why I think Carl might be sick with something cause the water he was in wasn't treated and he must of been there for some time.


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Omg!! I'd complain to the manager! Was it a petco/petsmart? If so complain to the corporate offices!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I want to but at the moment I just want to spend time with my fish. he stopped swimming and will only go up for air than goes back to the same spot with fins just clamped to his body so I'm just sitting here by him I fear the moment I leave so will he. he's making an effort to swim but I guess whatever he has might be getting the best of him.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He's most likely just getting used to his new home. As an extreme case, my boy Remmy in my avatar wouldn't eat for the first month I had him home. I offered food pretty much everyday but he wouldn't take it. It was just his way of adjusting.

And yes conditioner works right away so no worries about that.

And if you can't float him then add a little bit of new water to his cup, a 1-2 tablespoons about every 10-15 minutes to his cup for half hour _at least_, you can do more too if it's a bigger change. This way he can adjust to the temp and to the new water chemistry. You'd be surprised at how water chemistry can change between tanks.

For example, my tap comes out at a pH of 6.5, my 10 gallon was stubbornly sitting at a 6.0 (my plants weren't enjoying that till I threw in some crushed coral to raise the pH) and my 33 gallon sorority is at a whopping 7.4! So yeah...even though it's all from the same tap water, they can be different still.

So now that he's in the 10 gallon (keep an eye on the ammonia levels until you get more plants, do a 25% water change if you see the ammonia levels at .25 or higher. Test an hour after the change, if it's still .25 do another change until it says 0) when you do partial water changes which consists of any water change that's not 100%. So you can leave him in during a partial water change, he might not like the siphon but oh well lol, he'll get used to it.

Also what kind of food are you feeding him? Many foods contain fillers like wheat's, grains and other corns. Those are not great for Betta's so what you want to look for is for a food with good ingredients in the first 3 ingredients.

So most foods will have two fillers in the first 3, there are two foods on here that we highly recommend; New Life Spectrum (my betta's absolute favorite) and Omega One Betta Pellets. Both are higher quality pellets with less fillers and more nutrients that Betta's need. Yes they need a high protein diet, but they also need their veggies just like we do.

If you happen to have Freeze-dried bloodworms or anything Freeze-dried, only use that as a treat maybe once a week. Those foods can promote constipation even though they're a good source of protein it's like the equivalent to us eating red meat all the time for every meal...not good.

So my Betta's love NLS and I feed that on a regular basis, most of my boy's get about 5-6 pellets, the older boys get 2-3 and the girls I just throw a bunch in until everyone's fat lol

So is your boy looking fat or bloated at all? It could be that the pellets you're using expand too much. Take a cup of water and put a pellet in, over an hour watch to see how much it expands, if it's a lot then that could be a problem. NLS I've noticed doesn't expand too much so that's why I use it as a main staple of their diets. And with a higher quality, they can eat more than just 1 pellet. You're not over feeding him by giving him 3 lol, no worries!

And their poop should be orange/brown and solid, usually ends up curly. If it's white, stringy then there would be a problem. But for now I think it's more he's still getting used to his home and is enjoying the fact that he's now in conditioned water and getting all sorts of attention! :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

He turned really pale ;A;

He hasn't pooped at all since I got him maybe he's constipated?
I tried looking for NLS and Omega One but all they had at the store were Omega One Flakes :/ my friend has the Omega One Gormet Betta Pellets and her Betta died and she doesnt plan to get a new one so next week when I go up to NJ i'm going to pick those up but yes the food I have has corn wheat and stuff .___. he's not really bloated but the pellets expand really really large really quick >_> ill check a few other stores to see if maybe they carry NLS or Omega Pellets 

the temperature of his tank dropped to 70 I saw this morning and now its at 78 and it got up and is moving around a bit more but he still goes back to the bottom and lays there I really have to get this new tank with a heater so it can stay constant


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ooooh yeah temp drops are really bad. Is the heater faulty or did the plug fall out or something?

You can try cutting up the pellet with your finger nail and feeding only half to see if he'll eat it.

Can I get a picture? he could be constipated or it could be internal parasites which will be fairly easy to treat.

If he's constipated I would feed him a tiny bit of a blanched frozen pea. Take a pea put it in some conditioned water (or water from his tank) and microwave about 30 seconds. Shell the pea, throw the shell away, take the two halves and with one half chop it up into tiny pieces. Take the smallest piece (should be about the size of his eye, if not smaller) and grab his attention so he'll eat the pea. Generally they love peas so it shouldn't be too hard to feed him unless he's completely lethargic.

Can you check your tank params? the ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH? I'd like to see where they are at right now.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

there's no heater in the 1 gal tank ): thanks why I really don't want to wait to put him in the new one 

pictures:

Pellets in water









He just lays here









Him again









Tank Results:

PH: 7.4

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

Temp: between 78-79

I cleaned his tank last night


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, he looks fine to me. Sometimes they're just lazy. Also scoop out any uneaten food, that will rot and hurt him eventually. You can feed him one pellet at a time when he does start to eat (it doesn't take too long to do. I take about 2 minutes with all five of my boy's and an extra 2 for my girls/corys/pleco)

Soooooo you can take out 1 gallon from your 10 gallon (I assume it's up already?) and you take out a bit of water from his tank and you can float his 1 gallon in the 10 to keep it warm. You can leave the top off if it doesn't fit otherwise but it should  You may have to take some gravel out so it floats properly but otherwise that would be good for him. He could just be lethargic because of the temp swings.

You can leave the lights off for a bit longer and it will help reduce stress on him. When I use Tetra Safe Start I keep the lights off for the whole two weeks so that it's less stressful  It's good to do when introducing a Betta to it's new home or when you get new fish and all.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm going to set it up tonight. Im going out now to go buy the buckets and more plants but yeah thats what Im thinking to the temp change but he hasn't pooped a single poop either ): (it sounds weird to say that xD but that worries me a little)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol I know, I've gotten so used to tossing around 'poop' and 'poo', but I agree it's funny XD

Well since he hasn't been eating, that'd be why he's not pooping. So keep the lights off for most of today and in the morning when you turn them on, offer a pellet, wiggle your fingers or something to get his attention and see if he eats it.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok Ill try that. I have the tank set up (almost) I have the live plants in there and decor and gravel etc. I have 2 buckets (5 gal each) filled with water which I put stress coat+ conditioner in each now to put that in put the heater which I put together just have to suction it to the tank after its filled then Ill let it run and put the thermometer a few hours before I put him in cause its in his other tank at the moment and the rest of the decor still in his other tank then after that Ill put him in.

Nowww my only problem is this filter they recommended me...it doesn't fit .___. so I have to go back and get another one... THEN once thats put in it can cycle and stuff 

I couldn't find the NLS or Omega food anywhere or any of the fertilizers you all recommended. they only have Aqueon and something starting with an Flourish and API so I didn't purchase them cause I didn't know if they were good or not. 

its been 2 hours...still not done X_____x Carls just staring at his tank lol like "I WANT TO BE IN THERE RIGHT NOW!!" I bought some decor smooth rocks and a stick on background for the back of the tank so he has something to stare at that isn't my bland wall lol

its just this filter! sjhfsjdfhafoaf Its the only thing missing for the tank right now cause the one i have doesn't fit and is only for open top tanks -______-


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

I highly suggest a Fluval. So quiet! I only hear a trickling of the water. Well the lid rattles a bit, but I turn it askew and it doesn't then. 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=17228016&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Thanks Lights! but I went over and they showed me I could cut out the parts for the heater and filter so I was able to get it all set up. though I told my Fiancé NOT to plug the heater if for 30 minutes after it had been submerged and guess what I just found it plugged -_____- so now I think he ruined it and it wont heat ._. I unplugged it and Im going to wait 30 minutes and see if thats the issue...the light wont come on and the waters cold so I know its not on >_> so now I just have to let it filter for 24 hours? then I can put him in? 

but this thing of him not eating and laying there Im starting to give up on this whole trying to get him better..he wont even try! just laying their not even coming up so I cant even try to feed him. I tried talking to someone at the store who had a betta for 5 years and nothing I just cant get this fish to eat...AHHHH why he's beginning to frustrate me and sadly now Im taking it out on everyone I come near I wish he would get better so i'm not uptight and nervous all the time ):

but here are some pictures: when I put him in I'll add his log and other plant in the center where that empty space is


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Have you tried frozen foods? Maybe he just doesn't like pellets?


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## ShadyLex (May 14, 2013)

I have the same tank and heater as you! Just an early warning, the heater doesn't heat the water to exactly what it says. I have the dial a little bit behind the 80 mark and my thermometer says it's 80F. I would leave it on and toy with the dial a bit until you get it to your desired temp. I would also keep checking the temp to see if the heater is doing its job (at least I do it because my room gets really cold at night and I'm concern if that changes the water temp)

I also have the same little red bridge. This is going to be one happy spoiled little betta.


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Lol I've been eyeing the red bridge. But I have 2 already.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ShadyLex said:


> I have the same tank and heater as you! Just an early warning, the heater doesn't heat the water to exactly what it says. I have the dial a little bit behind the 80 mark and my thermometer says it's 80F. I would leave it on and toy with the dial a bit until you get it to your desired temp. I would also keep checking the temp to see if the heater is doing its job (at least I do it because my room gets really cold at night and I'm concern if that changes the water temp)
> 
> I also have the same little red bridge. This is going to be one happy spoiled little betta.


thats awesome! I had so much trouble with the hood at first cause I didn't know you could break the cutout pieces to put the equipment and went all the way to the store just to find that out lol 

thanks for the warning! haha yeah when I went to the petsmart I told them what was going in it and they were shocked I was getting a betta fish such a nice tank.

it took me HOURS to get that heater to even work its been working now but it says I have to wait 24 hours before I can adjust it. the themometer is currently in his tank but I plan on putting him in this one tonight after I let it filter a little more. his current tank because it has no heater atm because I just woke up the temperature dropped to almost 74 and Im thinking (and hoping) that thats what is making him so lethargic and not wanting to eat. 

*so the heater heats the water higher than what the dial says? and is it a good heater that keeps the water the same temperature even when the air around is colder or warmer? and Im sure they took this into account when they made it but if my fish were to brush up against the heater it won't burn him correct?*

I was wondering were I should put the dial because my room is like yours it drops to a crazy temperature at night (and its boiling hot in the day time) and I was concerned for Carl because last night it was so cold outside and with the A/C on I knew it was going to get really cold and now I went and I had to shake the tank I thought he had died. he's getting SUPER lethargic and I know he won't last another harsh temperature change tonight. and not eating for almost 4 days doesn't help either he must be weak and then temp changes on top of that ): the little guy thankfully survived his last horrible night in a rapid temp change so tonight he will spend it comfortably in his new tank (as confortable until I can get this heater to work as I want it that is lol) 

once his other tank heats up Im going to put a themometer in there to make sure its heating right before I put him in there. 

*also for anyone who has live plants does that change how frequent I need to do water changes? do they let off any harmful things that could hurt the fish or no? *

I put in live plants and I don't know much except they help with cycling so I wanted to know a little more about caring for a tank with live plants


*Lights106:* I like the red one a lot. I was picking out bridges for his tank and all the ones i was looking at had edges and were really rough but the red one is smooth and I thought it would be best for the betta since it wasn't rough and couldn't cut him or hurt him in any way. the same thing happened cause I wanted to get him those colosseums for a greek theme but they all had sharp edges and I knew they'd hurt my fish so I didn't get them.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Heaters will heat the water when the room is colder/air is colder but it will turn off when it reaches it's desired temp. So if you set it for 80, then it will keep the water at 80 when your room is around 70 or wherever it is. But when your room get's up high like 85+, the heater will shut off and allow the air to heat the tank. Many times during the summer my tanks get up to 85-86 but that's fine, Betta's will tolerate that no problem.

So most of the time, the heater will heat turning the night but then not during the day if it's too hot, it will turn on a few times maybe but it know's when the water isn't warm enough and will turn itself on. That's the good thing about heaters, so basically once it's set and your thermometer is reading 80 degree's then you're all set, you don't have to touch that thing unless you're battling some disease or something.

There are times that if the heater is rated for higher wattage, so say if you got a 100Watt heater for your 10 gallon. Then that's more power so if you set it to 80, it might mistake it and over compensate so your water would end up like 87+ degree's because it's too much power. So that's why it's important to have a thermometer because your heater would still be saying it's at 80 when in reality it's not. But generally that doesn't happen if you've got a 50 watt or 25 watt.

And as far as plants, if anything you won't have to do as many changes. They don't let off anything harmful except for ammonia once in a while when leaves die off. That's when you just pluck off the brown leaves and let the rest grow. But remember, they eat nitrates and help with keeping nitrite levels down when it's converted. So it's like a natural eco-system where the plants act as a second filter almost. However I still suggest doing at least a 25 or 50% water change once a week just to get rid of anything your fish my be excreting :-D

See why plants are so good? Especially low light ones because they basically grow anywhere and in anything, pretty hard to kill so the only thing you really will have to do is give them a trim every now and then (either with regular scissors or your finger nails) and pluck of dead leaves/melting leaves. And then just give them a bit of fertilizer and they should be set to go :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

when I went to feel the water just now its freezing but the heaters light is on so I don't see whats the issue. maybe 80 degrees is colder than I think? I have the thermometer in the other thank and but once his tank warms up ill take it out rinse it and put it in the new one but I don't think the heaters heating my water at all. its a 50watt maybe its not strong enough or I have to change the dial? I let you guys know the temp once I get the thermometer in there. but from me feeling the water its wayyy to cold to be 80

thats good!! I was told and given the impression that live plants are hard to take care of so I never got any. but all I have to do is groom them here and there and give them fertilizer

*which brings me does anyone know a website that sells a good fertilizer? I cant find any in store so I was going to order it off the internet. I was also recommened Hikari pellets? anyone used them or heard of them?* I was told this was good brand and to try it if my fish still refuses to eat

*and he keeps turing sideways a little is that cause of the fact he floats or is it something I should be concerned with?* this fish is going to give me a heart-attack one day lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> when I went to feel the water just now its freezing but the heaters light is on so I don't see whats the issue. maybe 80 degrees is colder than I think? I have the thermometer in the other thank and but once his tank warms up ill take it out rinse it and put it in the new one but I don't think the heaters heating my water at all. its a 50watt maybe its not strong enough or I have to change the dial? I let you guys know the temp once I get the thermometer in there. but from me feeling the water its wayyy to cold to be 80
> 
> thats good!! I was told and given the impression that live plants are hard to take care of so I never got any. but all I have to do is groom them here and there and give them fertilizer
> 
> ...


Yes 80 degree's is cold to us. You have to remember that our body temperature is 98.6 so anything under that is going to feel cold to us. 80 is almost a whole 20 degree's colder than us so yes, it's going to feel chilly. Think of a pool and when you first get in, it's really cold, that's probably around 75-80 degrees lol So no worries! Trust the thermometer and you'll be all good ^^

The turning sideways thing is most likely due to the temp drops, it does bad things to Betta's. Are you warming up the water when you change it? If so, I wouldn't suggest that, just leave him at the colder temp so that he doesn't have to struggle with another drop and just let him stay at the colder temp. That will be alright for now until everything is all good with the 10 gallon.

As far as fertilizers, I use API's LeafZone. SeaChem's Flourish is another good one, both of those are liquid ferts. If you want to go with root tabs as well, SeaChem also puts out a nice root tab fert, usually comes in packs of 10. You can cut up one tab to fit in your 10 gallon and you leave it in to dissolve over a few months, slowly fertilizing your plants and not harming your fish. 

If you want a good site to order stuff from, I use ThatPetPlace.com, it's got generally the cheapest prices around and lots of good stuff include livestock if you're looking for it  The shipping isn't too bad either, I use regular ground shipping and everything has always come in pristine order :-D

And Hikari is an okay brand for Betta pellets, they had gone off for a few years where their formula sucked. What you want to look for is in the first three ingredients, it's better that 2 out of the 3 are not fillers like wheat, grain and corn. I still recommend New Life Spectrum just because my fish would literally die for it, I've never seen them be so excited about good food before. Half the time they turn their noses up at Omega One when I try to feed as well and that's suppoesdly better than NLS.

But I love NLS because it also contain's garlic which Betta's can't resist, it's also good in helping to ward of internal parasites :-D So if you can find it, I suggest NLS but if you can only find Omega One and Hikari, then those would be fine as well. Just look at the first three ingredients! :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I think the huge drop of temp is really messing him up. when can I put him in this new tank? (start having him float on top?) Its been running since around 8 or 9 last night. I want to get him out of that tank real soon

thanks for the website! is that also where I can find NLS? cause I can't find that anywhere in stores here and I really want to try it out especially since my betta is the most pickiest eater in the world. 

also with a tank with plants and such if my betta dies how do I quarantine a tank before I can put a new one in? Ive been contemplating this since yesterday when he started to get worse


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes you can float him in the big tank! I would just take out most of the decoration in his 1 gallon so that it can float properly. This way he can get warmed up while you let the tank run a little longer! This will definitely help out.

I got my NLS from Petstore.com right here: http://www.petstore.com/new-life-international-spectrum-betta-formula-semifloating-60-gram

It's actually a bigger container than Omega One or Hikari and it nearly costs the same, Omega is usually around 3 dollars and change so I found it worth it to get NLS for a buck more and get about 3 times more than what Omega offers.

I'm sure if you looked around you could find it elsewhere as well, perhaps cheaper too 

Okay, in the event of a death, well it first depends on what kind of death. If he dies merely from the temp fluctuations or anything like that, your tank should be fine. You can do a big water change, like 80% and get a new Betta.

However, if it happens that he dies from something heavy and easily spread like columnaris or something like that, then I'd say take the tank down. Rinse out the tank with vinegar and hot water until you no longer smell vinegar. Do the same with the gravel, let all that and the filter dry out in the sun. Plants will be fine in you put them in a small container of just regular old tap water, tap water kills most things but the plants will be fine.

Once everything dries out, you can set it back up. I'd buy a new cartridge for the filter and you could set it right back up again and a have a fish in by the end of the week.

But I've only had to do that once and it was due to a Columnaris outbreak that I couldn't cure in time and didn't have the means at that point or even the know-how. I wasn't on a forum so i couldn't even figure out half of what to do, my fish ended up dying and so I did a 1 parts bleach and 19 parts water solution to clean out all of my stuff. And today it's set back up with three betta's and everyone's doing just fine :-D

But I've had many fish die in my 33 gallon (back when it was cycling and I didn't really know what to do) but I had a bad batch of Cherry Barbs come in and they all died one after the other, I kept the tank going after I got rid of the bodies and did a big change and nothings died in it since. So there really isn't much worry when it comes to fish dying unless something severe like columnaris as I mentioned


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok! I'll go but in the thermometer and see what the temp is after maybe a half hour of sitting in there to get a good reading and then Ill take his stuff out rise but his favorite log and other plant in the tank then take out that filter and stuff and should I take out some of the water to? fill it halfway? I have a hard time getting him to float 

thank you so much!! I don't mind paying that much and 4 dollars isn't bad and I want the best for my fish so Ill spend any amount of money to keep him happy healthy and comfortable. about how long does that amount last you? I'll order it later today once he's in his new tank so it can come in asap. 

So many of these diseases look the same to me and then as far as internal parasites and things Im just bad at identifying diseases so even if he had any of these chances are I wouldn't ever know

and I'll have to make a water baffle for my filter cause I know its to strong for him is it better a sponge or plastic bottle? and when I saw the pictures I couldn't tell where the plastic was placed. was it over where the water comes out?


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

put in the thermometer and this is the reading. It’s hard to tell but I think it says 82. if I need to set the temp down a bit I can adjust it later tonight. Should I go ahead and float his tank?










I have a question. I was told Bettas love to jump and my hood has fairly large openings do you think he'll try to escape? anyone with this issue on there hood?



















I took out the filter that was in the tank and his plant. I left him his log for now he's not happy I took all his hiding places lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Not a problem! Okay so I've had my little container of NLS for about 5-6 months now and when I open it up, it looks like I've barely touched it. Mind you I'm feeding 20 fish now, and many of them get about 5-6 pellets a day. So if that says anything for ya lol

You'll be able to see when something is wrong with him and that's why we've got the forum. When you see something that you might think is some sort of disease that you don't know about, take pictures of him if you can and post a new thread in the disease section and we can help you out to identify it and help with a treatment for him 

And for the water bottle, yes the bottle can either be taped to the top of the filter and then have it curl under the outflow so that redirects the water so he's not blown around by it.

I don't know if I showed you how mine works but here are pictures from mine if you wanted to see, I duct tape mine on top of the filter instead of going through because I used Mountain Dew bottles: http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/lilnaugrim2010/library/Betta Filter Baffle

EDIT: oh yes, I was going to say that your thermometer will give you a reading in minutes :-D 82 is fine, you can try turning it down a notch or two and see what it reads at but you can totally float him in there and it will warm him up. Yeah, I'd take out at least half of his water and then take out about half a gallon from your 10 gallon so that it won't overflow when you put him in.

Those holes look fine, just keep the water down about an inch and a half to two inches and you should be set. If you don't want to do that you can put saran wrap over those holes and he won't be able to escape but yes they can jump and they can jump high. Longer finned Betta's can't just _as_ high but they can certainly reach 2 inches if not a little more if they really really want to lol.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

So it's going to last me and really long time then lol 

I adjusted the temp of the heater so Im going to wait a half hour or so to see if it goes down to 80 before I float him

I don't know how I would fit that water bottle piece on my filter xD I guess if I wrap it around where the waters coming from it will separate the flow so its not as strong? Im not sure I have that marine land Bio wheel filter 

Could I float him in his little plastic cup filled with some water from his tank? taking out a gallon and pouring it back in wouldn't work with my weak arms lol 










Ill saran wrap it so he can't get out lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sure you can float him in his small cup too ^^ I usually use a chip clip or something to secure it to the side, tape works too because otherwise they might float away lol.

Saran wrap is also good for holding heat and moisture in, I use it for my quarantine tanks because it makes it more humid, which makes it easier for the fish the breath since they do breathe air. So that's good.

And yes you can wrap the bottle around it so that it separates the flow, if you looked at the link I gave you, I also duct tape mine to the top instead of inside the filter like that Step by Step baffle had shown.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok Ill find a few clips for that I have a few here on my desk. I was about to just let it float around the tank but he'd probably not like that lol

I tried offering him some pellets like you advised but every time I drop one in he swims away from it and going into his log ): 

yeah I was afraid of leaving him with those holes and find a fish on my carpet the next day. i have some in my kitchen I can get and put on before letting him into the tank 

ok Ill have to go out and get a water bottle like the one shown and the only part ill have trouble with is how to put it on my filter the way that its built it wont let me tape it on the way you have yours in the picture


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hmmm, can I get pictures of it? You can just lift the top off and take a picture from the front and one from the top that would be good. Maybe I can help with that :-D

You can really use any kind of bottle, like I said I used Mountain Dew bottles because that's what I had lol I just used very hot water to rinse it off and get all the residue off and it's been fine since I put it on 6 months ago :-D

And that's fine about the food, I'd just let him get warmed up first and then tomorrow maybe try another pellet to see what he'll do with it in the cup. But warmed up takes priority right now! He can get a while without food


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

here you go 





































I just got this pic ): He's laying flat on the log and his heads just hanging over the opening and into the opening of the log. I don't get it and it doesn't help he has no energy cause he's refusing food. if its not there he'll go inside and lay flat like he's dead I had to shake the tank and he moved a bit then was able to get himself upright. Im really hoping its not an internal parasite. I bought aquarium salt should I put that in the new tank just in case? I tried holding up a mirror to see if he'd react but he just stared at it and swam away no flaring nothing :/


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yay, time to explain salt's now  you're going to hate me after this I swear!

Okay Aquarium salt is good for less stressful medication. However it treats external issues like Fin rot, Ich, Velvet, External parasites and body slime infections. It should not be used as a therapeutic dosage and not to be used over 14 days. Generally if your fish has something like fin rot (the edges of the fins turn black and rot away) you'd use a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon and change the water 100% each day. So this is why it's best to have a QT tank so keep his 1 gallon for that purpose! Because it's must easier to change one gallon than 10!

It's also cheaper to use 1 teaspoon of salt over 10 teaspoons. Also with any salt, you need to dissolve it first before you put it into the tank, when salt dissolves it puts off heat because of the friction or something like that, and can burn your fish. So I generally take a small cup and put about a tablespoon or so of tank water in it, measure out my salt and put it into the cup. I swirl it around for about a minute or so or until allllll the salt crystals are gone. Every single one of them, then I slowly add in a little dribble every 10 minutes or so (if the fish is in there) so that they can adjust to the new salty water.

And then there's another salt called Epsom salt, this is not generally in the pet store, you find this at any pharmacy or wal-mart (89 cents there!!). It's a laxative in both humans and fish. You dissolve it the same way except unlike AQ salt, Epsom deals with internal stuff like internal parasites, swim bladder disease and any sort of swelling like pop-eye. Again, you'd need a certain dosage for each disease and the severity.

So with that, if your boy did have internal parasites, you'd use Epsom salt instead. Epsom can be used as a therapeutic dosage but only if your fish really needs like, like if he had Swim Bladder Disease (SBD) or prone to constipation. One of my DT (double tail) boy's is very prone to constipation and has a hard time excreting waste so I use a .25 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon in his 3 gallon as therapy for him so he can poo easier and more often.

So now that I've explained that, I know you're going to hate me! You need to get rid of the AQ salt that you put into the 10 gallon now. Oh another, AQ salt also harms live plants only if left in there though so don't worry! You're plants aren't going to die on you just from the salt! Also the reason you can't use AQ salt as therapy is that over a long period of time the salt hurts the Betta's liver and kidney and can result in a failure but this is longer like a month at a time. So that's why we suggest to not use it over 14 days, that's a safe time.

If it happens that you do have to use it more than 14 days, then you'd give your Betta about 5-6 days of rest from the salt and then you can use it another 10 days and so on. But generally that's not really the case 

So how much salt did you put into the tank? if it's a small amount you can do your first water change (yay<---sarcasm lol) and take out about 30% of the water and replace it with new water. That should take out most of it, salt doesn't evaporate either like water does so you physically have to take it out. Don't worry, there might be some residue left but it won't hurt him because you'll just take it out at the next water change.

If you are so inclined you can take out 30% today, another 30% tomorrow and the remaining 40% the following day so you'll have done a 100% change over three days to get the salt out. But again, it's not going to kill him so don't worry 

I'll tell you though, when I first started I didn't even know of Epsom salt and I kept using AQ salt as a therapy dose lol, my pour Gourami, I think that's part of why he died. In conjunction of nippy Silver Tip Tetras (never get them, they are devil spawns lol) and a blizzard so I had to move him and of course being a Dwarf Gourami they're super susceptible to every kind of disease anyway. But anyway all you have to remember is this:

AQ salt for outside stuff

Epsom for inside stuff. (Epsom is also sometimes used as a fertilizer so it won't hurt plants! Yay for not hurting plants ;-D)

EDIT: Oh and for the filter, you should be able to tape a bottle onto the lid of the filter and curl it underneath, that should work find and don't worry about it going into the water. You're Betta will know to stay away from it when he finds out that water is still flowing out from the sides!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I havent put in any salt lol i wasnt until I got the ok but Ill have to run out and get some Epsom salt now.maybe..I dont know I wish someone could diagnose my fish )': Im going to go and clip in in his little cup to the tank and see what happens


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh phew! Okay good, I thought you had said you already put it in lol!

Yeah I always have AQ salt and Epsom salt with me now. They are the basic treatments and pretty much can treat everything if caught early.

I am very certain that it's just the temp swings that is bothering your fish, just watch. Once he's in the warmed up water for a few days he'll be happy again and will eat. It takes a while so don't expect to see improvement right away. Temp swings can just do very bad things to Betta's because they are Tropical fish.

It's kind of like on hot blistery summer day when you're inside all day long in the nice cool air conditioning around 65 degree's, feels great. Then you go outside and a 100 degree air hits you with 50% humidity, it's certainly not going to feel good! It's a bit extreme but that's kind of what your Betta is going through.

But he's made it this far! He's a trooper so once he's floating in your 10 gallon, he'll be much happier :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

nope! lol I wouldn't do anything that Im not sure of and go kill my fish on accident xD I just have it incase he comes down with something. I feel bad though you wrote ALL that but I did learn a lot from it  

got him floating in the 82 degree water  when you go to scoop them that doesn't exert to much stress does it? he was swimming around but he's been in there for a good 2 minutes now and he's calmed down










I called my mother cause she's out and she said after work she'd go to walmart and pick up so epsom salt just so we can have it on hand in case. is there a brand I should let her know to buy? or is any good?

in the case of needing epsom salt for him how should I go about it?

hopefully its just temp change problems. How long should be float for? and once the times up I just scoop him into the 10 gal tank?

lol yeah he's stubborn and a fighter. he was the few that made it through the harshness of the pet store. most of his other buddies didn't make it but their in a better place now awaiting us fish lovers to come see them  I'm hoping he gets better I don't want to lose him now. I know I will one day but I want a few years with him before that happens if I can


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah heck, I would have wrote that anyway! It was bound to come up at some point and I'd rather you know than not know ;-)

And as far as brand, you can use any but it has to be PURE Magnesium Sulfate. No pretty scent and no other additives, at all.

And nope, scooping them is the least stressful way to do it. Sometimes I pick them out with my hands but you've got to be careful not to do it too much because they can shed their slime coat because of that and you don't need that. And if you net them, there's a chance it can damage their fins (well literally anything can damage their fins) but scooping is the easiest way to do it.

Okay so he's in the little cup and floating in the 10 gallon right? If so, he can stay like that until the 10 gallon is ready. If it's going to be a few days until you've got all the plants, just change his water every other day so that ammonia doesn't build up and he'll be fine. If you acclimate him to the tank water, so empty about half of his cup with him still in it, add a tablespoon or two of the new water into his cup until it's filled again. Now he's acclimated to the tank water.

So instead of getting water from the tap every other day and guessing at temps, you can literally dump him gently into the 10 gallon and rescoop him up with water from the 10 gallon. This will actually let the ammonia into the 10 gallon which will start the cycle up but keep him pretty much safe from the process in your 10 gallon. As well as start feeding the plants that you do have in there. But once your tank has enough plants (10 or more plants being ideal for a 10 gallon) then you can set him in there and just start up your weekly water change.

If it comes down to needing to treat him, it depends on the severity. 


At that point, I'd take a half gallon out from the 10 gallon and put it into his old 1 gallon.
Get a small cup, take some tank water into it and mix up 2 teaspoons of Epsom.
Dissolve every single crystal, so stir it or swirl it around for a minute or so and then put into the 1 gallon.
Scoop him out in the cup, water at the halfway or little under that point.
Float him in the 1 gallon and add in one tablespoon of new water to his cup.
Do that until his cup is full and gently let him into the tank.
And if by that point you don't have a spare heater for that tank, you can float that tank in the 10 gallon. Mine generally float better when the hood is on.
Also cover the top with saran wrap to make it easier for him to breathe.
Change water 100% everyday with new water from tap, mix up salt and make sure to acclimate him as above steps to his new water.

But we'll get to that bridge when we have to cross it. My first remedies for them are always good clean, warm water. Now that he'll be warming up in a few hours we can see what's really going on with him


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

the more I know the better! 

I told her to call me before purchasing it so I could let her know that. What brand do you use? 

I bought 5 more plants yesterday so there 7 plants total in the tank now its been running for almost a day 

Temp: 81-82 

I did a Water Check

PH: 7.4-7.6 

Nitrate: 0

Nitrite: 0

Ammonia: 0

what are safe enough water params before I can put him in?

so I can't let him in there tonight? ):

yes now that he has a proper heater and filter and stuff we can see if temps were what was making him lethargic and not hungry. Ill have the salt today and Im going to order the NLS food tonight


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh good! Can I get a pic of the whole tank when it's all said and planted?

Safe water params are ammonia/nitrite at 0 and nitrates under 20ppm. However since there has been no ammonia in the tank yet anyway, you're going to have 0 of everything. So tomorrow, if you've got all the plants in there you can put him in and he should be fine but if you don't have enough plants you will get a reading of ammonia/nitrites/nitrates so that will be a good test to see if you've got enough plants. If you get readings, then time to get more plants.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

What are good PH levels?

I plan to buy more plants but I spent 40 yesterday on the plants I picked out so Im going every so often to pick up more. specifically the large plants like the one in the front corner. the water wisteria keep floating back up though lol but it's been in there now a whole night without uprooting so I think it'll be fine now.

I also have StressCoat+ in there instead of Prime for now so the Aloe in it can maybe help him a bit. then some decor rocks and some other decor 










I plan to put him in later once he's gotten used to the water temp and stuff Ill be putting in some into his cup and then later tonight I'll let him in there and get more plants when I can

Fish are such an expensive hobby at least starting out. luckily Ive had support from my family like now my moms going out of her way to get the salt in case and they've bought stuff here and there for him but soon there be a good amount of plants

can you ever have to many plants? or the more the better?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aww that's adorable with the family helping out though! My family is happy I've got the hobby but they're not happy of the money I've spent so yeah, I hear you there.

And no! You can never have too many plants, the more the better for sure! Betta's naturally come from Rice paddies so they're constantly surrounded by plants so they'll really appreciate a heavily planted tank and once some of your's grow up they'll be really nice for him! And of course, the more plants the more tankmates you can add in, for example Shrimp. Shrimp can often be seen as a tasty snack for your Betta but sometimes they can be too fast and with enough hiding places your Betta won't be able to catch them and after time he'll give up.

You could also have a snail in there, I love Nerite snails although I don't have any yet. But they poop the least out of all the snails and cannot breed in freshwater so they're ideal for planted tanks, they also don't destroy your plants either, some snails will.

Also you can get rocks from outside as well as long as they've never been sprayed with insecticides or pesticides. Then you just boil them for a few minutes, let them cool down and they can go into your tank :-D it's cheaper than buying them lol

And good pH levels are stable levels ;-) Betta's can adapt to many different levels, they prefer softer, acidic levels like 6.0-7.0 but they'll be perfectly fine in anything higher. I've seen people with Betta's up to 8.2, perhaps a little fin curling here and there but otherwise, perfectly fine.

The thing you don't want to do is add chemicals to try and make it the 'ideal' pH level. A stable level will keep them healthy. Some of my tanks are sitting stubbornly at 6.0 while others are at 6.5 and my sorority is 7.4-7.6 so right where you're at and I've had no troubles what-so-ever :-D

And your tank looks good! I believe that's an Amazon Sword on your right side up front? That plant can grow up to a foot tall but if it get's too big it will just pop out of the water or spread out which is totally fine. It's not a fast grower so you won't have to worry about that any time soon!

And yeah, you'll have some floaters until they're able to root themselves in the next week so you'll have to just push them down routinely until they do root themselves. With fertilizer and your fish poo, they'll grow in no time :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I was looking at that site Aquabid where they have fish you can bid on I was looking there maybe incase I ended up that I had to get a new betta. they have beautiful fish but with bids they can get pretty expensive. there was a white one I saw and the bid was already up to 70 dollars >__> right now I'm still spending on supplies lol so a 70 dollar+ fish isn't something I can afford and since they ship them im afraid I'd spend money on a beta and then it come DOA. Im not really big on shipping any live creature since they get nervous and stressed easily. when I bought my rabbit and I took her home from the store she was breathing so fast I thought she was going to go into cardiac arrest X__x luckily she didn't and calmed down when I got her in her new home but because of that I'm not much into shipping animals and fish are another they get stressed so quick who knows what would happen :/

Do you think He'll be good to go in there tonight?

I'm afraid to give him tanks mates I might not find them alive in the morning lol but he won't flare at his reflection (which is odd) he just stares at it and then pays it no mind so I don't know if my betta is much of a fighter that or he's to sick to care

Yep is an Amazon Sword  I saw it in a aquascapeing video and when I saw it in the store I wanted it cause its large tall plant and with little plants it does the job of making the tank less empty. Im bad at aquascapeing though lol nothing triangular and I centered a plant no real pattern. I just planted them where ever lol It will look more finished when I get more plants in the tank.

my dad sprays everything out there so I wouldnt take my chances lol but they have nice smooth rocks in the stores for no more than 5 dollars a bad usually and the ones I got were only 1.99 a bag so it wasnt bad.

thats how mine are anywhere from 7.2 to 7.6 usually 7.4 to 7.6 so I wanted to make sure that wasnt to high especially with him already sick

they have flourish and API at the Petsmart I go to so I can pick that up there and the food I'll have to order tonight then everything will get added and times goes on and within a few months his tank should be full of plants and decor and he'll be happy until I have to take him out for the 10 hour move to florida which should have nice fish stores being along the coast. where I live in the inlands of Virginia you don't really see stores specifically for fish which is why I have no choice but to get tube plants but when I go down hopefully I can pick up nicer plants for his tank


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

My mom picked up Swan Epsom salt Magnesium Sulfate U.S.P from Walmart she said it was 88 cents. good brand?


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## Lights106 (May 16, 2013)

Not sure about the salt, but if you find a US breeder the price of the fish is more like $20 depending if someone has bid for it or not.


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> My mom picked up Swan Epsom salt Magnesium Sulfate U.S.P from Walmart she said it was 88 cents. good brand?


Brand doesn't matter as long as it is 100% pure Epsom.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, sorry forgot to answer that question, knew I was forgetting something! So yeah, brand doesn't matter since they're all the same as long as it's 100% ^^

Oh and you don't need both liquid ferts, one will work for now, so get which ever one you want to  For the Amazon sword I do suggest that you get some root tabs at least, they are heavy root feeders and while they will benefit from the liquid fert, they do need something for their roots. Even mine are lookin' a bit drab, I've got to pick some up myself when I get the money 

Most plants though will do just fine with the liquid fertilizer because they absorb it through their leaves, water wisteria especially :-D

And yes, he will be tonight and you can put him in tomorrow if you like


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

*Hadoken Kitty & Lilnaugrim:* Yep it says in the ingredients 100% Pure Magnesium Sulfate  so I have that handy along with the AQ salt in case of any external or internal problems

Ill pick some up at some point in the coming weeks probably once I get back from Jersey when Im not spending so much on food and I can concentrate all my paychecks on Carlson and his tank 

he's been sitting in his tub since around 3. I've been scooping in about a tablespoon of water every 30 to 45 minutes into is tub. he's been moving around a little bit kinda reacted to his reflection but not really he started then he gave up and went up for some oxygen. he's swimming around a little bit but other than that he's just floating about relaxing and trying to stabilize and get better after the temp changes that messed him up. but like you said to give him a couple of days. so I'll put him in around 9 or 10 so the tank by then will have fully been on for 24 hours or a little more.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok random question so I didn't notice the sticker on the tub fell into my open tank somehow and it must of been there for a while will the ink on it harm the fish? so so so so dumb to ask but no shame. no shame in wanting to be safe. I forgot to peel it off before adding it to the tank.......


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh wow, didn't expect to peel off. I was going to say you should but I forgot! I'm sorry! You know, I really don't know about if it is harmful. I would assume it might be a little bit. You might have to ask the forum about that one, can't answer that question


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

it had a plastic cover over the Ink but yeah I mean he's been intaking that water and it was a small one so maybe not really? its out now so no more toxins can get in. I don't know if I want to ask that to the forum they might think its stupid and wonder why I'm here lol


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> ok random question so I didn't notice the sticker on the tub fell into my open tank somehow and it must of been there for a while will the ink on it harm the fish? so so so so dumb to ask but no shame. no shame in wanting to be safe. I forgot to peel it off before adding it to the tank.......


The sticker from the cup? You got it out ASAP, right? I mean, it shouldn't kill your fish...but I can't imagine it being that great for him either. The sticky part is what I would be worried about.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol don't worry, you can ask any old silly question! That's why we have forums in the first place, not only to learn about the big stuff but for when we get stumped on the little stuff as well :-D

But I agree with Hadoken, the sticky part is generally the bad part if I'm recalling info correctly. Soooo you can try and put him into the 10 gallon so that the sticky part can't effect the water anymore. He absolutely needs to be warm right now and the ammonia isn't going to go up overnight. The plants that you have in there now will help and you shouldn't get ammonia readings for a few days.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok so should I make a separate topic about it in betta care? I don't think he likes that tank much ): maybe just getting used to. I took the cup out once I saw that I didn't think about taking it off when I put him in there

the adhesive part submerged but only the non sticky part of the sticker came off

and I had to turn off the filter because he couldn't swim in the current ):


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Honestly, it won't be a huge deal since its such a small amount. I'd do like a 5% water change and you'll be fine. Actually, the filter would probably take care of it. What size of tank is this again? You can either baffle the filter or get a smaller one (I have a 2 gal and I run a whisper i3 and I don't have any issues with it).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's a 10 gallon.

Is the filter baffled yet or not yet? The filter will be fine off for now but once the tank is cycled you shouldn't leave it off for periods at a time, an hour or two tops because you risk drying out your BB and then that would kill it.

But since it's no where near cycled, he'll be perfectly fine. And no he's not going to like it at first, he'll get used to it over the next couple days. You have to remember that the last few days have been a bit stressful for him, keep the lights off tomorrow all day, the plants will be fine but you want to keep him a stress-free as possible


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

is 10 gal ok for a betta or is it to big? I hope he doesnt struggle to get oxygen at the top when he needs it

its the marineland biowheel filter 100 in a 10 gal tank

yeah It was a small round sticker and Id been pouring it into his cup not knowing and he seems fine so it might have been so little. but is it normal for the water to look a little cloudy?

tried to feed him he wont take it. 

I but wrap around the parts that had gaps but no not yet with the baffle I have to get a plastic bottle first


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's fine if he won't eat.

Is it a white cloud or green cloud? Either way it will be normal.

And yes 10 gallon will be fine for him, he'll hide until he realizes that nothing's going to chase him or anything when he's in the open. It's not so much the space, but it's open spaces that bother Betta's generally but more plants or deco will help that


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

It looks white

I took out some water so it wasn't so high so he could reach the top faster he was having trouble swimming from bottom to the top with all that water in there. I also took some out cause of that sticker fiasco. the vacumme is nice though took me a while to understand how to work it xD. He's a little freaked but he's now scouting the place a little. he loves the filter and heater area. how much depth is to deep though? I just don't want to drown him in so much water.

I found a water bottle! someone had in the fridge  now to make this baffle


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes you can drown a Betta but they naturally live in about 3 feet of water so 12 inches isn't much :-D he'll be fine.

Yes I find all Betta's love the filter/heater area, no idea why, but I always find mine back there lol

And a white cloud is a bacteria bloom, basically there are two types of beneficial bacteria, one that sticks to the surfaces which is what you want and another that doesn't do much and floats in the water sometimes. Well you've got an excess of the floating ones (if I'm remembering correctly, I might be making that bit up lol) but basically it's just a bunch of bacteria particles, they'll go away on their own after a while or you can do some water changes each day to get rid of it. It won't hurt your boy but it can be unsightly


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Put in the water baffle!  I tried to make the cut as smooth as I could so no sharp edges could harm him and it definitely cut the current down tremendously. at least diverted the current so he can swim in most parts without getting blown around. but he still insist on swimming towards the current >__<' and he got blown back and now he's trying to go to it again. this fish lol 

I can do some water changes so that it doesn't get to bad when Im gone for a week.do I do a 50%? or less?

I hope that heater is fish safe cause he loves to touch it ALOT and he keeps shaking and flaring his fins for whatever reason oh its because he sees his reflection on the walls of the tank

also how to you vacuums the gravel with all the decor and plants? and do you have any idea why a betta fish will flare and then suddenly he goes really still for a few minutes? he keeps making me think he died X_x


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Betta males will posture when flaring. This is how you can tell that they're angry vs when wanting to breed. When they're angry, they really look like they're strutting...they will stop in place for a few seconds then strut around more. He just thinks he's hot stuff. 

As long as the heater is an underwater one, it should be fish safe.

It is common for fish to flare at their reflection, especially when getting used to their surroundings.

When syphoning, try not to uproot plants. You can move decor...I even suggest doing this so you can clean better. I use a turkey baster to get things that are super close to my plants.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah just siphon around your plants and use a turkey baster if anything is really close to the plants. You'll eventually get the feel for it and how to do it well, but it's just something that takes practice 

Yes the heaters are safe for them to touch, remember they're only heating to 80 degree's generally and we're 98.6 so if we don't burn our Betta's by touching them, they're safe from the heater ^_^

For the week that you're gone, the day before you leave or if you've got time on the day you leave, yes do a 50% or around that, water change and he'll be fine for the rest of the week  Same with food, if he's eating by that point you can give him a big meal of a few pellets and he'll be fine for the rest of the week.

If he's not eating, don't worry about it, he'll be hungry for you when you come back! lol


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Turkey blaster? I've never heard of that 

that's good cause he loves it and then whenever he would go up towards the filter current it would blow him into the heater >_>

I don't know if he'll ever even try to eat. Since last night he's been bed sitting on the gravel and I found him like that this morning. He doesn't really try to come up for air at the top. sometimes he'll get there but he'll just got back to the bottom behind his rock ): last night I had to put the net in there cause he wouldn't move otherwise. and I was talking to my friend who had a betta fish and she said hers would eat or poop and before he died she saw a white string where he was supposed to excrete his waste so he had had in internal parasite ): so I'm thinking mine might have something similar if not the same. I'm preparing myself for the worst because of all the signs he's showing. Im sure sitting in that tap in the store he must of gotten something. and I can tell he's not going to last very long. but I've done the best I can to give him the best and most comfortable place to live. 

where he's been since last night ):


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Turkey Baster, not blaster lmao It's what you use for when you're baking a turkey or a chicken, you suck up the juices with it and squirt it onto the meat so that it soaks up the juice. Well you can also use that to clean up Betta poo, it's has to be new or clean, never seen soap. They sell them in stores specially for Betta's as well but you can just get one in a grocery store/wal-mart.

If he had internal parasites he'd be bloated right up, I seriously doubt that he does have them. Just because he won't eat and hasn't pooed yet doesn't mean he's got internal parasites. And generally when they do have internal parasites, they still eat. He's just got a case of "getting used to his home" still


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I don't even know how I read it Blaster xD I'll look for it while I'm out this week 

I really really hope so. I also hope he's not constipated with all that poop inside him. cause he ate the day after I got him but I don't remember seeing poop but I wasn't aware they did and never checked when I cleaned the tank. Its just when I think of bed sitting and not eating I think of death and sickness


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Be careful about him not eating. Please remind me how long you've had him now. If its been more than a week, I would start diagnosing things like Hexamita.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My boy didn't eat for a month, this is why I'm doubting there's much wrong besides him just getting used to his new home and because of those temp swings and stuff, it's been stressful for him. I think she's had him since Monday? If I remember correctly.


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Ah. Well, she could always try garlic covered food or blood worms. Something more inciting than generic food.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup!

That's why I like NLS, it's got garlic infused in the pellets which makes it nearly irresistible! I haven't had a Betta yet that will turn it's nose up at it!

But yes, you can take a fresh garlic clove, crush it up with the flat side of a knife of something. Soak either the pellets or if you get bloodworms or anything, soak them in the juice and try feeding those to him, he should go for it but if he doesn't feel like moving he might not eat them. Try to get his attention first before putting them in and see what he does :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Ive had him since Friday. the last day he ate was 3 or 4 pellets on Saturday Morning and now its Thursday so almost a week. I'll try the garlic Cloves today while the NLS food is being sent to the house. How long to Bettas generally go without food? at some point he has to get hungry enough to eat even the most boring of pellets right?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, he will get hungry enough to eat them. But each Betta is different, I've had some that had refused to eat for a week because they were just being stubborn and childish while, as I noted before, Rembrandt didn't eat for a month. I offered him food nearly everyday but he was just adjusting and me being a novice, I kept leaving his light on all night long not realizing that Betta's sleep and they need the darkness. So that stressed him out more, but generally when I get a new Betta depending on where they've come from, they'll eat within a week, sometimes the first day if I get them from a good place like my LFS down the road.

But if I get petco/petsmart Betta's it takes generally up to a week because they're usually battling some illness of some sort and then getting over ammonia burns and stuff of the like from being in the cup. 

Can we get some updated pictures of him up close? I'd like to see what his fins looks like and his stomach area.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)




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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He looks fine to me, no swelling in his stomach at all which is a good sign. Fins are a bit clamped up but that's most likely due to stress and the temp swings that he was experiencing. Fins look good otherwise


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

In the first picture I tried getting a picture and it kinda picked up he has a small bulge (looks white) near where he would poop. I don't know if thats supposed to be like that or if that might be a sign of something?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah, he's got an imitator Ovipositer. an Ovipositer is what females have, where they drop eggs from but it just sticks out of their cloaca. Young males (so he's probably around 4 months old) will have an imitator one sometimes but it will go away eventually, just recede into him.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

thats interesting. I always thought he was a year old because of his finn length and they say their generally around year old when being sold in the store. but that would be awesome if he was younger it would mean more time with him since they only live 1 to 3 years. Someone told me he had one for 5 years so hopefully with correct care he can last that long for me  

I'm hoping they didn't miss judge and say he's a male when he's actually and she  but he fights himself and makes bubble nest so maybe not. thats good to know I'll keep an eye on it. I thought it might of been a blockage that maybe was causing his not eating or pooping


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I noticed this on his finn just now. I tried getting a picture but its a small hole in his fin and he has it on the edge of his back fin to and its outlined with black (didn't pick up in the photo). would this be fin rot? and how would I go about that if it is


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah no, fins are way too long to be a female, even a long finned female doesn't have that long of fins lol

The pinhole looks fine from here, probably from being blown around by the filter. It should heal up on it's own but watch it over the next 24 hours and if anything changes I can get you a treatment for Fin rot.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

What changes should I look for?

I just got home with some garlic cloves so I'm going to try and see if he eats his pellets with garlic later tonight. I sent for the NLS pellets earlier so it should come in a few days


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh sorry. If it gets bigger, the black expands more, stuff like that.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

ok I'll keep an eye out for those changes. 

I tried giving him the garlic pellets but he didn't want them. and now he's breathing heavily on the floor of the tank and hasn't come up for air in the last 30 minutes


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Betta's can stay under for quite a while, I don't know exactly how long though.

Is he been swimming much today? Did you scoop the food out after he didn't eat it? The garlic shouldn't make him breathe heavy like that, he might be stressed out perhaps though, that will make them lose color and breath heavily at times.

One of my boy's; Ditto, he freaks out every time the light turns off or on when he's not expecting it. Like he's perfectly fine at 8 in the morning when it turns on and 8 at night when it turns off but if I happen to hit the power strip and it turns off he freaks the heck out and nearly goes belly yup. He turns so pale and breathes so hard that I seriously believe that he's going to have a heart attack and die on of these times.

So moral of the story is that, sometimes the littlest of things can stress them out but don't worry because they are tough little buggers. Let him rest the night and see what comes of it in the morning. If you need you can turn the filter off for the night, it will disturb the cycle but his health is more important right now.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I tried looking it up on the internet but no one had a definite answer and after a while I made him come up cause I wasn't going to watch him commit a slow suicide if thats what he was trying to do >_>

yeah I scooped out what I could and vacuumed what had gotten in the gravel.

we thought he was dead dead a few hours ago and I couldn't net him out so I told my mom to do it...she put the other side of the net. the handle side in and I was like "NOOO" ugh I don't know what made her do that clearly you net the fish with the net not the handle...so all that bacteria on that handle is in my tank on top of the sticker stuff from yesterday and the saran wrap that I pulled out that fell from where I was covering and I rewrapped it >_<' this fish is going to die cause of carelessness I feel. and I told her if he dies its cause she put chemicals all in there along with whats already there. thats why I was quick to pick up those pellets cause he breathing enough dirt. I think the filters okay I have a baffle there and he's been fine since I put it up. Im afraid if I turn it off the water will get mucky and make it worse for him. 

I turned out all the lights except for my desk lamp which I turned away from his tank cause I thought maybe he wanted to sleep but 10 minutes later he's still in his log so I taped the log a little with the net so he could come out he went under the wisteria plant then finally went for air then now he's laying on a rock doing the same breathing. I've done all I can to de-stress this fish I think he's forever stressed I even left the light off all day and since its raining it was dark and he slept all day so I don't see how he's stressed. I have stresscoat+ a heater and filter with a baffle live plants and decor I don't know what else this fish wants..jesus?? I can't for the life of me figure it out :-x

he swam a little today but mostly slept in the top corner of the tank which I thought was ok since he was still getting his oxygen and all but still won't eat and now he's doing as I described trying to drown himself. and I just can't watch him do it. If he's going to do that it has to be when I'm not around


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Look, I'm sorry, but this sounds more like an internal parasite than him being stubborn. I'm going to be frank, but only because I just told a fish to the same thing: if you don't act quick, your fish will die. I can tell you're freaking out and really care about this fish, so I don't want to sit here and tell you he's going to be okay when he's clearly not. You need to treat this sick fish or he is going to die.

Sometimes fish are too far gone for our help by the time that we buy them. All we can do is make them as comfortable as possible until they die. Its sad, but completely true. He seems curable, though, as most fish are.

Epsom salt: 1 tsp per gallon to start. Put him in a gallon bowl if you have it. If not, lower the water until you only have a gallon left. 
Raise his temp as this will cause the parasites' metabolism to speed, thus dying quicker. 
If you can get him to eat, cooking him a pea will help this pass through his system as well, though he may decline the food.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

how high should the temperature be raised. and I just put 1 tbsp and let him stay in there how long? until he eats? and as far as peas I need to get the frozen type? I'll probably try feeding him later into the treatment when he begins to feel better


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If he refused the garlic then he's most likely going to refuse the pea however you can still try it.

Get a microwavable bowl, take some of his tank water and put it in there.
Take a frozen pea (no other kinds like canned or fresh) and pop it in the bowl
Cover bowl half way, microwave for 30 seconds.
Careful it will be hot. Shell pea, throw shell away.
Take one half of the pea and chop it into tiny pieces, feed him the smallest piece, it should be about the size of his eye.

And for temp you can go up to 85 degree's but do it over a few hours. So every hour or so kick it up one notch until your thermometer is reading 85.

Oh and with Epsom salt it's one teaspoon not tablespoon. But don't worry if you did put in one tablespoon, it's not going to hurt him. Epsom is a laxative so whatever is in there will be pooped out in a few days.

With this treatment you don't have to do daily 100% changes but it would be better so that if any parasites do come out, you can take them out of the water.
Be sure to scoop him out into his cup, change water, add conditioner and acclimate him back to it.
Put back in the 1 teaspoon of Epsom, salt doesn't evaporate so you physically have to take it out and put it back in.
You do this till either he poops and/or starts eating and pooping regularly.

I'm still not convinced it's parasites but you can do this treatment and there's no harm to it so that's fine  I hope he does get better soon.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

yeah since he's refusing food and bed sitting i'd do it to be safe.

I haven't put any yet I'm going to start soon. should I put anything like gravel or leave the 1 gal empty so I can better locate any poop or anything?

also the hole in his fin got bigger so Im sure its fin rot. but I should treat that after with AQ?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah leave the bottom empty, you can throw a fake plant in for some cover but that's it. It makes it easier to do a full water change on.

Okay, don't mix the salts either. Focus on getting those parasites out first and we can worry about the rot afterwards but yes you would treat that with AQ salt.

Since it's only mild rot I would do:
1 teaspoon per gallon of AQ salt
Dissolve before putting in.
Do 100% daily water changes to ensure any rot falling off is removed so as not to be reinfected.
Dissolve salt again and replace the 1 teaspoon.
Do this for a max of 14 days or until you see the black go away.
Salt will not heal fins up, just get's rid of rot.
To heal the fins, he can go back into his regular tank and use Stress Coat conditioner to heal up those fins.
Stress Coat should be used until all his fins are healed up nicely and then you can switch back to your regular conditioner.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Ive got the 1 gal taped to the large tank (no tape touching the water) so it doesn't float I added a little less than 2 teaspoons (cause 1 said 1 the other said to add 2 so I did 1 1/2) Im putting in a tablespoon into his cup every now and then and then ill let him into the 1 gal thats floating in the 10 gal so the heater can keep the water warm. hoping Im doing this right 

I hate having to move him from tank to cup so often but what has to be done has to be done. once thats done I'll treat him for fin rot. I just do the same except AQ salt? then stresscoat for regrowth his is regular tank. 

Im suprised salt doesn't harm them in any way. you think it would. 

as for the fin rot Im leaving to NJ for a week so hopfully it wont get to bad until I get back :/ sadly all his ailments had to occur right before I was leaving for the trip


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah that generally happens. I find one of my Betta's with constipation before I leave for my mom's and then don't have time to treat lol but he was fine.

Okay, so is he in the 1 gallon right now? Taped to the side, inside is perfectly fine.

And you are dissolving the salt before it goes into the tank with him?

If so then yes! And you could technically use right up to 3 teaspoons and he'll still be fine. Epsom salt is just a laxative so that's why it doesn't really bother them, just makes them have to poo lol just like us.

AQ salt though is the one that you have to make sure not to exceed 3 teaspoons per gallon and not to go over 14 days. That one can cause liver/kidney failure which is just a death sentence from there on out usually. But up to 14 days is perfectly fine. And then if he's still got rot after that treatment, you give him a break about 3-5 days (depends on dosage, if it was 1 tsp/gal then 3 days, if it's 3 tsp/gal, 5 days) and then start up again


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I dissolved the salt in a small cup with some tank water poured it into the 1 gal. right now he's in a small cup and Im pouring a tablespoon of the water from the 1 gal into his cup so he gets used to it then im going to put him in the one gal.

but rot can only begin on the edges? it can't start in the middle? cause he does have some on the edges on the top which are black so I know thats fin rot but that hole in the center of his fin got bigger so I'm not sure if fin rot can occur like that or only start from the ends and work its way in

I just cancelled all my plans for today so I can be with him and watch him. tomorrow sadly no one will be here and I'll be at work so I'll change his water and and do what Im doing but Ill have to leave him after that. my sister should be back a few hours after I leave so she should be able to update me. Im gonna try to feed him in the small cup before I let him in and see if since its a small area he can reach it better and maybe might eat something.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay yup that's what way to do it with the salt :-D You're doing great ;-)

Fin rot can begin wherever there is an opening for it to latch onto and start to rot the fins. So those pin holes can come out of no where sometimes and it gives an opening for the rot to set in, but generally it does start at the edges for the most common rot.

Hopefully he eats something


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

:-D

thats probably what happen...do you think he'll hold out until I get back to treat it? I leave next wednesday (his parasite should be gone by then hopefully) then I come back the following wednesday. I guess and week between treatments is good since he would be overwhelmed with salts 

hopefully! the NLS pellets shipped a few hours ago so that should come in soon  until then hope he eats these other pellets. maybe with the salt and small space he'll be willing to eat a pellet or two since they cant go very far and he can swim to it easily


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah that sounds fine.

Okay so you are leaving this coming Wednesday then? If so treat him for the parasite but watch for the black. If that black starts to progress faster you'll need to start the AQ treatment right away. He won't need a whole week between those salts, maybe just a day to get rid of anything else unwanted and then you can start the AQ right away


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

The smaller space should help him get to food easier. Also, the salts don't kill fish since most everything naturally has and needs salt in order to live (except slugs, obviously). Its when there is too much salt, just like humans, that organ failure begins.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

hopefully this passes by Sunday so I can start the AQ but Its so close I don't know anyone that can keep up with water changes while I'm away ): I would take him with me but he needs the heater and stuff so I can't. lets hope this works out. I wish I could postpone the trip but arrangements were made in January and theres no changing it. I'll just have to hope I can treat it and watch it over the next few days

yeah Im going to try an fed him after he's been in the salt a little while longer and maybe he'll be up for it. if he eats one at least i'll be okay and he'll be in a 1 gal for a while so eating should be more accessible


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

I really really hope this works out for you. I wish I could give you a big hug. Its always stressful seeing our babies and not being able to at least cuddle them to make them feel better (like dogs or cats).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah definitely, I know I hate that I can't snuggle them like I do my cats :-( but I love them all the same.

Cover the 1 gallon with saran wrap, it doesn't need a hood or anything but this way it will keep moisture in which makes it easier for Betta's to breathe.  oh and don't worry about saran wrap getting in the water, there's really nothing that it would harm anyway, it will be okay.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

*Hadoken Kitty:* I know its awful watching them in so much pain ): for any pet even. sometimes i just want it over with like I want them to get better but I hate seeing them miserable ): I hope he does recover from all the stress and mistreatment from the store but like you said theirs only so much we can do for a rescue and all we can say is we did our best and gave them the best

*lilnaugrim:* that makes it easier so the top doesn't weight it down. so don't leave any openings on the edges for air? I always thought they needed a opening to oxygen of some sort

I know I wish I could but even touching him could cause so much problems ): but he knows I love him


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> *lilnaugrim:* that makes it easier so the top doesn't weight it down. so don't leave any openings on the edges for air? I always thought they needed a opening to oxygen of some sort


Well, its really more so humidity gets trapped, making it easier for them to breath. the warmer, damper wet air will help more than breathing colder air.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I see. should I leave a little opening or not bother with that? 

I went with a light to check his fins. it seems he has a new pin hole in his lower fin and Im sure it a decor I got so Im taking that out asap Ive noticed his brush up on it quite a few times. I don't see black just his dark purple streaks that could be mistaken for it. hard to tell if he has regrowth cause his fins are naturally clear. but I know with openings like that fin rot can develop. so should I do AQ salt anyway or should I just go with using the stress coat and not bother with AQ? it looks more like tears from that decor rock than anything. and with a new pin hole on his bottom fin thats looking more like he's brushing up against that rock so ill take it out before he's allowed back in the 10 gal. Im keeping watch for any fin rot development in those holes until they close up


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

BettaPrincess13 said:


> I see. should I leave a little opening or not bother with that?
> 
> I went with a light to check his fins. it seems he has a new pin hole in his lower fin and Im sure it a decor I got so Im taking that out asap Ive noticed his brush up on it quite a few times. I don't see black just his dark purple streaks that could be mistaken for it. hard to tell if he has regrowth cause his fins are naturally clear. but I know with openings like that fin rot can develop. so should I do AQ salt anyway or should I just go with using the stress coat and not bother with AQ? it looks more like tears from that decor rock than anything. and with a new pin hole on his bottom fin thats looking more like he's brushing up against that rock so ill take it out before he's allowed back in the 10 gal. Im keeping watch for any fin rot development in those holes until they close up


You can poke holes in the saran wrap if that would make you feel better.

Don't use QA salt and epsom at the same time. Right now, stress coat+ and epsom is a perfect remedy for him. Its good that there isn't any rot thus far. The AQ salt would stop rot, but it is useless if there is no rot.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Hadoken Kitty said:


> You can poke holes in the saran wrap if that would make you feel better.
> 
> Don't use QA salt and epsom at the same time. Right now, stress coat+ and epsom is a perfect remedy for him. Its good that there isn't any rot thus far. The AQ salt would stop rot, but it is useless if there is no rot.


hopefully the stresscoat heals up those pin holes and teared edges while he in the QT tank and nowhere near that rock. and if it heals up then there will be no need for AQ salt treatment which will be nice. keeping in eye on it but yes its good there isn't rot so i can focus on treating whatever it is this little guy has right now with the Epsom salt


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah you don't really need holes especially since you'll open it to feed occasionally and then to change out his water, that will be enough oxygen exchange. Basically if you give him about 2 inches of air space, that's like a whole Earth's worth of oxygen to us as to them, but fresh air is always good as well.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I just came home from work and I found a clear round ball at the bottom of his tank. I wouldn't think salt crystalizes at the bottom of tank after being dissolved. but does epsom salt do that by chance? It wasn't there this morning so I was wondering 

could it be something he pooped? 

and the holes in his fins got bigger but no black on them except the one on the back fin and its a tiny dot. so I wouldn't think the white pellet at the bottom is a piece of fin cause its round. any ideas of what it is?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Can we get a picture?


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I just put him in his cup and when he swam all parts of his fins shed off and another of these are on the bottom of the cup I think its a fin piece he shed tremedeously when he started to swim. its round though like a egg almost now that im starring at it from inside the cup


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

You said he had clear fins...but usually when fins come off, they aren't like round balls (at least not for HMs). Its very possible that it could be something that he pooped out.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I saw when he was freaking out and I scooped him and put him in the cup fins did come off and now that pin hole opened all the way out the the edge. but the round thing that came off with it disturbs me a bit at least it looks roundish maybe its from the angle Im looking. but if he did poop it what would clear indicate? I just put the new epsom salt in the 1 gal tank and im waiting for the heater to warm it to 80 so I can start adding it to his cup. but he's shedding fins yet no black to indicate rot so I don't see why its happening. just chunks are falling off when he swims about


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Well, shredding fins doesn't mean that he's loosing them. 

Is it really clear, or is it white? The pic looks like a little of both, but I only say that since its being compared to a clear cup, lol.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Opaque Clear its clear is some spots and others are an off-white and then thin fin shreds in the other corner.


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

does it look like the other fin shreds at all? Like, are they at least the same color? If not, the lack of color could be due to him not eating, and the white could be a parasite. Definitely take them out of his cup if you haven't already. 

You mentioned him swimming around...does this mean that he's acting like he's feeling better?


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I changed the water in the tank just in case and the other he shed in the cup so Im taking it out. He's swimming a lot in the cup. we think he might be getting hungry so before I move him to the 1 gal tank Im going to see if he's hungry enough to eat. 

I was thinking that to cause I know its not fin rot since he shows no signs. but I thought the same that he just doesn't have the nutrients cause of lack of food and that might be why. I'll keep an eye on it. hopefully he eats


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

I hope so too! Please keep us updated as well as you have! I think we all get a connection with the betta and their owner thanks to this site.


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

He won't eat the food I have but the NLS pellets shipped the other day so I should be able to try those out before I leave. He's swimming though which is good he's more active currently. He's in the 1 gal now continuing treatment. once he eats and poops I'll feel better knowing he's ok 

random question. I read around that bettas get inflamed gills that are red? but arnt the inside of their gills supposed to be a dark pinkish red? I read all these diseases and I start thinking my betta contracted them all as I read. I'm a paranoid betta mother

I will! without annoying everyone with MY FISH MY FISH MY FISH! lol I feel like sometimes it can get annoying so I try to limit my question asking

I think so to  It nice to know there's a place where you can get advice and be around people that understand the love for fish and that your not alone if something happens to them that you can get help on here and treat your fish to the best of your and their abilities. I've learned a lot coming on here and it's helped! I don't think he would of lasted as long as he has if you guys hadn't help me


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

Hmmm.....have you tried going to PetCo or PetSmart (or any local fish store really) to purchase some frozen blood worms? Not freeze dried, but frozen. This may tempt him better than a pellet at the moment.

As soon as he starts eating again, then that's a sign that he's feeling better. 

Yes, bettas can have a red or pinkish red on their gills. These are called ammonia burns and they come from too high of ammonia in their water. They usually look like stripes on the sides of their gill plates.

Awwww. You're such a great betta mommy for even asking for help. Some people don't think they need to, and that fish are just fish. So, I think that you even asking for help says a lot, let alone taking the advice!!!


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

Update:

I left Carl Yesterday morning in his 10 gal tank and he was swimming around a lot more but didn't eat anything I figured he was getting used to the new environment and calming down from the stress of constantly being put into new tanks. 

Yesterday evening they told me he was doing fine and have been turning on and off the light, keeping track of the temp etc. 

this morning they called to say he ate 1 NLS pellet!! he apparently spit out the 2 others they tried to feed him but at least he ate 1 and maybe nibbled the others before spitting them out. and he's been swimming around, loves the plants, and his new hiding place is under the red bridge xD but he's doing a lot better from what there telling me and hopefully he continues to get better and possibly eat more in the next coming days. but eating 1 after a week and a half of nothing is a good sign  I think the epsom salt treatment really helped him  thanks so much for giving me the advice! He seems to be doing so much better!! I still miss him and wish I could be there but at least knowing he had finally eaten I can enjoy my vacation a little more but I can't wait to be home again with my fish


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yayayaya! :blueyay:

That's so exciting! See? Told you he couldn't resist haha, nah but that's really fantastic! I'm so happy he finally ate something ^_^ The other pellets might be too big, usually when they spit them out that is the reason. You can split them with fingernails and then feed him like that and he might take them but I'd get him started and steady on the NLS :-D


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## BettaPrincess13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm so glad cause the first night I gave them to him he didn't care for them but now he loves them and they called a few hours ago saying he ate the ones that fell on the plants that he spit out earlier and apparently they saw him trying to get the one that fell in the gavel xD you were right the picky fish couldn't resist them :-D ok Ill tell them that tonight so when they feed him tomorrow they can break them up a bit. also how often do you feed your betta fish the NLS pellets? and do you skip a day?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I feed about 6-8 pellets for the young boys, the older boy gets about 3-4 and the constantly constipated one gets 2-3. The girls kind of...well, they eat what they want lol so I can't say exactly what they each get. I feed all days except Monday and Tuesday is their fasting days, mostly because I'm not home to feed them and I don't trust my brother. But generally one day for a fast is just fine, you don't always need to do it but it's just good to keep them healthy and keeps their digestive tract clean and demotes constipation. Although some fish inherently have bad intestines....Yeah I'm looking at you Jarvis! He's my DT boy who's older, I haven't actually ever seen him poop....he just excretes it from his gills. 

So fasting is up to you and what you feel your fish needs. If you think he needs a day off because he looks like he swallowed a piece of gravel, give it to him lol but otherwise you could feel him everyday if you like


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