# Hybrid betta?



## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Last week I bought 2 "King bettas" from Petco. Originally I thought these were big bettas, but after closer inspection I'm not sure. 
Upon first examination they are heavily bodied dark fish. If they are just swimming around they look like a traditional plakat. But when they flare you can see they are HMPK, is this a cross between a normal Betta and a wild type? Their mouths and fave are freakishly large compared to a normal Betta, and it remind me of Betta macrostoma. However they are building bubble nests so I must assume they nest their eggs in bubble nests. Anyone have any ideas?
They seem more than just big bettas. Also their bodies are as long as my four middle fingers (not counting the fins). 
Attached are some photos.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Aren't the King bettas supposed to have giant blood in them? I believe they are bred to be larger than a 'standard' sized Betta splendens, but we don't have them here in Australia so not 100% certain. 

It would be impossible to cross a mouthbrooding betta onto a bubblenesting betta. The two species do not belong in the same complex. Betta splendens can only hybridise with other species within the splendens complex, and they are roughly the same size/slightly smaller than a standard sized Betta splendens.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

+1 to LBF, just bigger than your average Betta. They aren't hybrids at all.


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## artemis35 (Jul 11, 2014)

To me, the dark wild-type king bettas look a lot like the "Superman" fighters. 

I have often wondered if the Petco kings are, in fact, culls from Superman breeders. The wild-type kings (I have 2 of them) are definitely more aggressive than any other type of male betta I have had. They are almost impossible to get a decent picture of since they always immediately flare at the camera (and do not stop until camera goes away).

Their big mouths also give them the consummate "grumpy face" 
(very grumpily illustrated by Merit, below)


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I think they are called half giants, I don't believe that there is any hybridization going on at all.

The ones I've been seeing lately at Petco aren't really that much bigger than a standard VT. I saw some over the winter that were quite larger than average, thick and super aggressive. I almost think that they were fighter culls.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm sure some of them are, but I doubt all of them are. I had a beautiful Red Marble "King" before, he was the sweetest giant ever. He certainly wasn't a fighter cull lol, same with King Charles, he was another marble I found. 

Here's a good post for you: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=99066


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> I'm sure some of them are, but I doubt all of them are. I had a beautiful Red Marble "King" before, he was the sweetest giant ever. He certainly wasn't a fighter cull lol, same with King Charles, he was another marble I found.


My king is a big softy, he would have made the worst fighter. The one time he flared at me I was lucky enough to snap a picture and use it as my avatar.

The supposed fighter culls I saw at Petco had big heads and a mouth like a bear trap. When I picked up the cup to get a better look at him he snapped at the cup so hard it made an audible sound.









Have you ever seen a betta advertised as a "trained fighter"?









A fish store In Jersey I visit from time to time sells some of their plakats this way. I'm not sure how I feel about it.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I have had several of petcos king bettas. they are a giant betta, but to be considered a "true" giant they have to be bigger than 2.5 inches body only, that being said if they have the giant gene they are a giant in reality. All of mine have been super chill in fact they seemed to love to torment their standard sized neighbors in the tank by chilling right in front of them while their little cousin was spazing out. There are a few large wild types that are bubble nester I have some simorums http://smp.ibcbettas.org/species/simorum.html they are very shy and their tactic of choice is to remain still whenever they see anything outside of their tank, they actually will curl up in a "j" shape and not move to the point you can actually reach in and scoop them out with your hand. I do not know if you could cross them with a splenden and even if you could why? they are more long and sleek vs big and beefy like the giants.To really learn more about them you can ask logistsguy here on the forums he breeds them and has some very beautiful ones. I personally would love to try a giant female sorority even though I would not do a regular sized sorority again lol.betta bellica is another wild big betta that is a bubble nester http://smp.ibcbettas.org/species/bellica.html


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## DangerousAngel (Mar 26, 2015)

I've always thought someone just cross bred a bubblenesting Wild Type with a Giant Splenden or something and vola King. Oscar is a big softie who is actually quite skittish, he's finally coming out more because of his newl heavly planted tank. He definitely rocks the 'grump face' and loved showing it off for the camera. He hardly flares ever so I doubt he could be a fighter.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I had one giant that was pretty aggressive but yeah not as aggressive as some of my normal sized bettas, a few of the crown tails I have had were maniacs that would kill anything and everything in their tanks, shrimps snails hell anything


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

MikeG14 said:


> A fish store In Jersey I visit from time to time sells some of their plakats this way. I'm not sure how I feel about it.


What store???? I'm NJ!


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Being the full of a fighter sounds more accurate. Mine are both over 2.5" so I guess they are Giants.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I doubt very much that these fish have much/if any wild blood in them. Pure wild Betta splendens are a very rare fish in the trade, and I believe there can be difficulties even when trying to hybridise Betta splendens with other species in this complex (such as Betta imbellis). 

I would very much doubt it would be possible to hybridise a fish from the splendens complex with a larger bubblenester such as Betta bellica/simorum. I mean I've housed fish of different species, but of the same complex together before, and it seems there is still a preference to spawn with fish of their own species.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

CRAZYHERMITCRAB said:


> What store???? I'm NJ!


Bill's Wonderland of Pets in South Jersey. I'm not exactly sure where, maybe Magnolia?

They have a very nice selection of bettas and well cared for from what I've seen. A bit pricey for some of the more unusual ones.


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## Anna Scott (Jun 9, 2015)

I think they were the other species of bettas. Last week as I was researching about betta breeds on the internet, I discovered that there were species of bettas we don't quite know yet, and these bettas are not common in the market. Check out this http://www.fishbase.org/identification/SpeciesList.php?genus=Betta
Your bettas can be one of the other species or I am mistaken. Just observe the behavior of your bettas to recognize if they were the splendens species, the ones we are keeping.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Anna Scott said:


> I think they were the other species of bettas. Last week as I was researching about betta breeds on the internet, I discovered that there were species of bettas we don't quite know yet, and these bettas are not common in the market. Check out this http://www.fishbase.org/identification/SpeciesList.php?genus=Betta
> Your bettas can be one of the other species or I am mistaken. Just observe the behavior of your bettas to recognize if they were the splendens species, the ones we are keeping.


Yeah, we've already been talking about those wilds. Most of those are not even possible and are actually smaller than regular domestic Splendens.

Giants literally just come from years of selective breeding. It's the same as selective breeding pugs to have flat faces


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Betta Simorum looks like a king.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

It is a bubble nester thats gets about 3.5"-5" (not including tail)


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

Betta Splendens:
head length short 22-31 % SL; often a brightly-coloured body; iris of the eye with iridescent green or blue patches; body elongate or slender; opercles parallel when head viewed dorsally; caudal-fin rays red or brown and contrasting with the iridescent interradial membranes; unpaired fins without an iridescent margin; opercle with red or blue vertical bars in males; dorsal-fin rays 0-II, 7-9; anal-fin rays II-V, 21-26.

Betta Simorum:
head slanted; dorsal surface of head noticeably concave behind eye; pelvic-fin tip extending to 14th anal-fin rays; pelvic-fin length 31.3-48.3 % SL; 33.5-35 lateral scales (mode 34); adpressed pelvic-fin reaching beyond anal-fin origin; distance between pelvic and anal-fin origins 8.5-13.1 % SL, mean 9.9.


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## CRAZYHERMITCRAB (Mar 10, 2015)

My kings have the concave behind their eyes.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Betta simorum are definitely not the same as the fish being sold as kings.

As mentioned, it's simply selective breeding. Look at the amount of different dog breeds there are. A great dane is vastly difference in appearance from a pug, but they are still the same species. It's simply selective breeding at work. It's the same as how we ended up with such a variety of colours and fin varieties in Betta splendens.


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