# Barely breathing, looks paralyzed - help!



## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Help! I don't think he's going to make it.... Below is his current status, along with info from the previous posts I made about him.
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Friday 12/7/12: Currently barely breathing. Looks paralyzed. I put him into his cup (it's floating in the tank), so he can reach the surface easier.*
Housing 
What size is your tank? 3 gal critter keeper. 
What temperature is your tank? 79F 
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes - temp has been constant at 79-80F.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Aqueon Betta Pellets - but he did not eat at all last night or this morning.
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2x per day - 2 or 3 pellets.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 100% yesterday 12/6, 100% Tuesday 12/4, brought him home on Fri 11/30 so his water was 'new' then.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? See above.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Top Fin Betta Water Conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
API Ammonia test (liquid) - no ammonia detected. (Same color as my tap water.)

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Looks paralyzed. Barely breathing.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Has not appeared healthy since bringing him home one week ago..... First, he looked like he was having seizures.... Then, he lay under rocks or on a leaf hammock all the time. During the week I had him, would pretty much never move, except to surface for air.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Has had issues since the pet store employee dumped his blue water and refilled his cup in a nearby tank. Stress stripes immediately after the event. What looked like seizures the following day. Little motion.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Frequent 100% water changes. Have not done anything yet. (Also, I don't have aquarium salt on hand. If salt is needed, would I be able to use non-iodized salt?... I do have Epsom salt, if that's needed.)
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Don't know. Have only had him one week. 
How old is your fish (approximately)? Don't know. But he's smaller than my other two.

*The following was posted on Saturday 12/1/12:
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LittleBlueFishlets said:


> This is a NEW fish. I was at [Petstore] last night. Many bettas were in dark blue water. I asked an employee about this. She took the cup out of my hand, dumped the blue stuff into a bucket, plopped the cup into a nearby fish tank to fill it, and handed me back the cup.
> 
> The fish had turned very pale, with dark stress lines, and was gasping and shivering. I decided I didn't care what he looked like, and brought him home. He had stress stripes last night. Around 2am, he was looking better, and was investigating his surroundings. This morning, he looked even better, and had turned a nice blue-and-red color.
> 
> ...


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

He may be what I call a "Puddle Fish". He might only like smaller sized aquariums, not all Bettas are like this however, many love the more open spaces of 5+ gallons which I refer to as "Ocean Fish". 

Place him back in his 1 gallon aquarium, look at the store for API Stress Coat Plus. It's a better water conditioner and can also keep your fish calm.

Many Bettas do dart around, a quick burst then a glide, a quick burst then a glide. It can be easier for because of their long flowy fins. Now if he's doing that and bumping into things like he itches then that could mean he has ick.

Look at him with a flash light, if he has Ick you'll see a bunch of little white dots all over his body. If he has that then you'll need Aquarium Salt. Don't use regular every day salt, it's not the same. 

Epsom salt is for internal problems while Aquarium Salt is for external, so you know the difference.

The blue water is usually medicated water. PetSmart used to put Hikari Betta Revive in their water which turns the water blue, but since they no longer sell that they don't use it anymore (atleast my stores dont).

Don't worry too much about not eating since they can go up to a month without starving or anything like that. If you want you can tempt him with frozen treats, glass worms, bloodworms or brine shrimp.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

No, he's beyond that. If I put him into a 1 gal, he won't be able to reach the surface. 

He's in his cup, with the water level just over his head, and he's struggling to reach the surface as it is.

He isn't moving his body or his main fins. He's sculling with his pectoral fins only. His color is gray.

Would epsom salt help?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

He's lying on his side now. He can't even stay upright.

I dissolved a couple of epsom salt crystals in a few drops of treated water and added it to his cup. I don't think it'll make a difference, but at this point, it's worth a try. 

His gills are moving. But if he's lying on his side, how is he going to reach the surface to breathe?


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

what kind of tank did he pull the water from? it could have a totally different ph than the water in the cup not to mention ammo.temp change, disease etc. when they are stressed ,their immune system is compromised. i would have waited with the wc until i had him home. i am in favor of taking time to acclimate betta. sometimes it takes me half a day. i test the lfs water and my own dechlorinated water before i put them in the tank. sorry you met up with an employee who has no clue. i'd call the store and let them know what is happening. little doubt in my mind that they don't test their aquariums everyday. and they usually use strip tests that are unreliable. if he dies they owe you a new fish and an apology. give him a day he may perk up. just don't overmedicate him. stick to the epsom salt. not all salts are created equally. epsom, aquarium salt and non-iodized table salt are a bit different. i've never used the table salt in aquaria. perhaps someone else has experience with that.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Still on his side. Can't reach the surface. Breathing appears to be becoming more labored. If I lower the water level in his cup anymore, his body will be exposed.

Don't want him to suffer. But I don't know what else to do for him.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

sandybottom said:


> what kind of tank did he pull the water from? it could have a totally different ph than the water in the cup not to mention ammo.temp change, disease etc. when they are stressed ,their immune system is compromised. i would have waited with the wc until i had him home. i am in favor of taking time to acclimate betta. sometimes it takes me half a day. i test the lfs water and my own dechlorinated water before i put them in the tank. sorry you met up with an employee who has no clue. i'd call the store and let them know what is happening. little doubt in my mind that they don't test their aquariums everyday. and they usually use strip tests that are unreliable. if he dies they owe you a new fish and an apology. give him a day he may perk up. just don't overmedicate him. stick to the epsom salt. not all salts are created equally. epsom, aquarium salt and non-iodized table salt are a bit different. i've never used the table salt in aquaria. perhaps someone else has experience with that.


I don't know what kind of tank she pulled the water from. It was literally the one closest to where she was standing. (I was horrified.) 

That's why, when I got him home, I acclimated him as best I could and put him into a 1 gal tank. I figured since she'd done a 100% water change with unknown water in one second's worth of time, that the water in my tank might be better. (My tap water's pH is close to 7, and I knew there was no ammonia or disease in it.)

Then, after he didn't seem to perk up, I figured he'd be better off in the 3 gallon since I could control the water parameters better.... But he still didn't perk up. 

He's been hanging on for a week. But he never really looked good during that time.

The only things I have here are epsom salt and "sea salt." I'm thinking he may be beyond these though....


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Still on his side. He can't reach the surface, but if I lower the water level, his body will be exposed. Breathing is labored.........


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

He just died........


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm so sorry! That sucks.. poor fella


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm sorry.  It sounds like he got shocked from the sudden change in water parameters and couldn't recover.. Sorry for your loss


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

i'm sorry you lost your little friend.i know they are small but i still mourn them when they pass. especially the feeling of helplessness it brings, when you do everything you can to save them. i don't want to seem insensitive but i had one more question. you mentioned that he was gray. was he that color when you got him? if you are too upset to answer, thats ok.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

sandybottom said:


> i'm sorry you lost your little friend.i know they are small but i still mourn them when they pass. especially the feeling of helplessness it brings, when you do everything you can to save them. i don't want to seem insensitive but i had one more question. you mentioned that he was gray. was he that color when you got him? if you are too upset to answer, thats ok.


He was in dark blue water at the petstore, but he looked blue. When the employee dumped the water and refilled it with tank water, he turned very pale with dark stress stripes. By the next day, he was briefly blue with redwash - but it was a fairly intense blue/red. So no, he wasn't always gray. 

As he got sicker, he retained some color, but it faded to a lighter version. It wasn't until tonight that he turned gray.... 

I just looked at him now, and even though he died two hours ago, I see remnants of blue on both his body and fins. There's actually more color now than there was when he died?

Are you asking because of that 'mystery' disease? He doesn't look like the picture in that thread. If you want or think it would be helpful, I can take a picture of what he looks like now.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Not great pictures, but:
1) This is what he looked like the day after I got him. 
2) This is what he looks like now, two hours after death. (His colors got a lot brighter after he died, actually. I don't know why that would be?)


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

oh sadness....stupid pet store employees. They are really starting to become my enemy.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

That's the mystery disease if i ever saw it. The big black patch on his side and the blackening of his tail. Wasn't the pet store employees fault entirely, though that was a bit messed up for them to do.

Fortunately you didn't do anything wrong, it seems like it might be an inherited disease, possibly. But it kills very quickly.

I'm really sorry, but i'm glad he went to a home where someone actually cared about him.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah that's that blue fish fast rot thing huh.. or ammonia burns. Look in the sticky though. Sorry it effected him


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Is it contagious????? 

Last night, I washed everything down with bleach, rinsed well, rinsed with vinegar, and rinsed again. I put it all outside so it would air dry. Will that be enough to kill anything he had? 

I have two other blue bettas. Both are healthy. I do not want them to get sick!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It's possibly a very quick moving columnaris so yea it would be infectious. 

Bleach solution 10-20% will kill just about anything so that should be good. I would make sure to throw anything away that was porous though.. rocks and ceramic ornaments because they can hold onto the bleach and leach it over time.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

We honestly don't know if it is or not or what exactly it is. It could be or it might not be and it might just be hereditary. 

You seem like you did a good job at cleaning up after so you should be okay.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm sorry :< Poor thing, you did everything you could. At least he was in a loving person's care once before he passed.


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## sandybottom (Nov 29, 2012)

it looks like his red washed out of him. from the picture, the gray looks to have replaced it. is this correct? if it is this mystery disease. is it brought on by stress or shock? bettas colors are pigment clusters that overlie each other to produce a spectrum of shades . his blue pigments were not effected while his reds were. i've seen pics of the bettas inflicted with this disease, and they appear similar. but this seems like it was caused by water conditions or stress. unless this isn't a mystery disease that only effects the blue bettas, but effects all bettas. could it just be more noticeable in the blue bettas? seems too coincidental.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

sandybottom said:


> it looks like his red washed out of him. from the picture, the gray looks to have replaced it. is this correct? if it is this mystery disease. is it brought on by stress or shock? bettas colors are pigment clusters that overlie each other to produce a spectrum of shades . his blue pigments were not effected while his reds were. i've seen pics of the bettas inflicted with this disease, and they appear similar. but this seems like it was caused by water conditions or stress. unless this isn't a mystery disease that only effects the blue bettas, but effects all bettas. could it just be more noticeable in the blue bettas? seems too coincidental.


His red is still there. You can see some on his anal and pectoral fins. I only saw the discoloration on the body after death. He turned gray while ill. After death, his blue/red colors returned. However, the dark area on his body was something I had seen until after death.

In his case, yes, he was new, and yes, under stress. But there are many cases of this illness striking bettas that people have had for a long time, so they probably wouldn't be under stress or dealing with water parameter changes.

I've been wondering the same thing about reds. It might be difficult to see discoloration on red bodies. However, many bettas have light bodies. Shouldn't it be easy to see the discoloration on them?


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