# FCCP Spawn Journal



## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

Migrating platforms! Trying out this forum for my spawn logs. 

I got into betta breeding in October 2020, and have 2 spawns currently, one who are basically adults rn, and then my 4 week old FCCP (fancy copper plakat) spawn.

The fancy coppers were spawned a month ago today, and are almost a month old. I have somewhere over 100, as thats where I stopped counting. I am going to be transferring them from the spawn tank to a bigger grow out tank in about 1-2 weeks. I'm going to start cycling it on Monday. 

These are the parents: 


























Heres the spawn, photos taken a few days ago










Thanks for reading, hope you will want to follow along!


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Welcome! I actually follow you on Tiktok and Youtube  You will be happy to know that the mods on here are very chill and helpful as I did hear about your negative experience with some other places and I hope you enjoy your time here. 

Very pretty parents! The coloration is beautiful-good luck with them! Excited to follow along and good luck!


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Welcome! I actually follow you on Tiktok and Youtube  You will be happy to know that the mods on here are very chill and helpful as I did hear about your negative experience with some other places and I hope you enjoy your time here.
> 
> Very pretty parents! The coloration is beautiful-good luck with them! Excited to follow along and good luck!


Thank you! Excited to share the journey to more people  

Here is a photo of them this morning from the side


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

They are getting so big!


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> They are getting so big!


I’m trying to get them to grow as fast as possible but I’m not having tons of luck. I’m trying to up my feeding and water changes. I have some more live foods on the way to add more variety as well


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

What foods do you currently feed? @indjo may have some ideas and tips for you (betta breeder from indonesia that has been doing this a lot longer than me 😂)

Is there a certain reason you want them to grow as fast as possible?


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

Right now they take live and frozen bbs (but I mostly feed live), frozen daphina, and I’ve been slowly mixing in some hikari first bites. Early on I fed banana worms, microworms, and vinegar eels, but I don’t really feed them that at this age.

I’m wanting to add in grindle worms or black worms and frozen blood worms but I think their mouths are still too small. I also tried repashy gel foods but they didn’t take to it yet.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> What foods do you currently feed? @indjo may have some ideas and tips for you (betta breeder from indonesia that has been doing this a lot longer than me 😂)
> 
> Is there a certain reason you want them to grow as fast as possible?


Oh and the reason I want them to grow faster is simply because I have so many. I would prefer to not have to keep these guys for 4-5 months with the amount of work jarring takes for this many fish. Ideally I can get them ready for new homes at 3 months old. Some I can sell as babies to people who are prepared for the slightly different care requirements.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Yes, that certainly does make sense. Best thing to do is feed 3-4 times daily at least a few hours apart and of course daily water changes as you said. Other than that, the rate at which they grow can depend on genetics a lot. Blackworms have a lot of nutrients and can help them grow-you may have to cut them up a bit but its certainly something to try. You could also consider trying mosquito larvae or flightless fruit flies. I hope this helps a bit 

Also-for jarring since it is tedious have you considered looking into a large jarring system similar to Simply Betta where it can add water and remove it manually? I actually use one of the betta setups I got from PetSuperMarket who was getting rid of it and it holds 40-50 jars and aerates the water. You could also do a massive sump system. I prefer using larger containers for the babies over cups and there are many different options.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IME, most important for growth burst is clean water and constant food supply. Worm type of foods like live tubifex is best. However, fast body growth will cause rather poor fin growth - Don't know why.

IME, NO stress - whether lack of food, too much disturbance, illness, etc - will keep them docile longer. I have had docile batches until they became sexually mature (over 4 months). And I have kept batches together for much longer. BUT there is always a risk keeping them together long term. You need to determine their probable character (each batch is different). I would not recommend it if you intend to sell.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

indjo said:


> IME, most important for growth burst is clean water and constant food supply. Worm type of foods like live tubifex is best. However, fast body growth will cause rather poor fin growth - Don't know why.
> 
> IME, NO stress - whether lack of food, too much disturbance, illness, etc - will keep them docile longer. I have had docile batches until they became sexually mature (over 4 months). And I have kept batches together for much longer. BUT there is always a risk keeping them together long term. You need to determine their probable character (each batch is different). I would not recommend it if you intend to sell.


I’ve been looking for tubifex worms but having trouble finding a reliable seller for a reasonable price. I’ll keep looking. And I do feed generally 4 times a day. I’ll keep up on the water changes and feedings, and hopefully they will grow out nicely!


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

indjo said:


> IME, most important for growth burst is clean water and constant food supply. Worm type of foods like live tubifex is best. However, fast body growth will cause rather poor fin growth - Don't know why.
> 
> IME, NO stress - whether lack of food, too much disturbance, illness, etc - will keep them docile longer. I have had docile batches until they became sexually mature (over 4 months). And I have kept batches together for much longer. BUT there is always a risk keeping them together long term. You need to determine their probable character (each batch is different). I would not recommend it if you intend to sell.


I actually do have fruit flies as well, they are just much too large for their mouths still. I more used them for my adults.


KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Yes, that certainly does make sense. Best thing to do is feed 3-4 times daily at least a few hours apart and of course daily water changes as you said. Other than that, the rate at which they grow can depend on genetics a lot. Blackworms have a lot of nutrients and can help them grow-you may have to cut them up a bit but its certainly something to try. You could also consider trying mosquito larvae or flightless fruit flies. I hope this helps a bit
> 
> Also-for jarring since it is tedious have you considered looking into a large jarring system similar to Simply Betta where it can add water and remove it manually? I actually use one of the betta setups I got from PetSuperMarket who was getting rid of it and it holds 40-50 jars and aerates the water. You could also do a massive sump system. I prefer using larger containers for the babies over cups and there are ma





KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Yes, that certainly does make sense. Best thing to do is feed 3-4 times daily at least a few hours apart and of course daily water changes as you said. Other than that, the rate at which they grow can depend on genetics a lot. Blackworms have a lot of nutrients and can help them grow-you may have to cut them up a bit but its certainly something to try. You could also consider trying mosquito larvae or flightless fruit flies. I hope this helps a bit
> 
> Also-for jarring since it is tedious have you considered looking into a large jarring system similar to Simply Betta where it can add water and remove it manually? I actually use one of the betta setups I got from PetSuperMarket who was getting rid of it and it holds 40-50 jars and aerates the water. You could also do a massive sump system. I prefer using larger containers for the babies over cups and there are many different options.


I wish I could set up a system like that, but unfortunately I live I a rental, and a pretty crappy insulated one at that. Even though I have a fish room, because it’s so leaky to outside air I can’t even heat the room (which sucksss, were moving in September haha). Basically I can’t put anything like that into the house. I will be getting another shelf, probably a 4’ long edsal, so maybe I can do some fancy tubing with it and make a movable circulating system. I’m going to be heating them with heat mats or flex watt tape I believe.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

Hello, I’m back.

I have a few updates. The babies are still doing overall pretty well, and I have built a “betta barracks” grow out system for them. I my first wet run on it yesterday with no leaks. Just need to finish the other rows and set up my sump.










I still have some concern about their size, they seem quite small. I do 50% daily water changes, I feed 3+ times a day. Temp is at 84-85. I don’t know why they aren’t growing faster honestly.

I feed mostly frozen and gel foods, but I also use some live. I rarely feed any pellet or flake foods.

maybe someone can tell me if I’m doing something wrong here to slow their growth


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

What cute babies! And your rack system looks great-you should totally post a tutorial! You seem to be doing everything correct care wise. Have you always had this problem or is it just this spawn? Was this the first time you bred the parents? What are there approx. sizes currently and how old are they?


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

To be honest though, slow growth is not always a bad thing. Some wild betta species can take 6+ months before being ready to be sold. Power growing fish can lead to health problems, sbd, etc, so as long as they appear healthy I don't see a "health" concern besides it being tedious 😂


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m just worried about them being stunted, but for the life of me, don’t see any issues I’m causing. I always hear diet, temp, and water changes, which I think I have handled. Maybe they shall increase growth rate once I jar the larger ones.

the parents were both very average sized fish. Female was a bit chunky, not “large” per say. I have no idea what age but they were imports so I suspect young. They ship them off as young as 3 months sometimes. First time spawning the parents, and unfortunately last. The female is still with me but the dad developed dropsy about a month ago and unfortunately didn’t make it.

my last spawn, my fish were small too. But I think it was the water changes. I didn’t do them nearly as often as I do now, especially when they were small. They are 5 months rn and still not quite fill grown, but almost there.

I will eventually post a yt video on the grow out system when I finish it! I’m hoping to by mid next week. I need some tools from my dads house haha! Gotta wait till I visit


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Bettas release a GIH (growth inhibiting hormone) that can affect the growth rate of their siblings. If you can, you may split them up between 2 20 gals and/or begin jarring early. 50% water changes seems good, some breeders even recommend 75% but I worry about that being too much of a change for the babies in a short amount of time, but it something you could try. Let me tag @indjo @RussellTheShihTzu to see if they have any more ideas.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Bettas release a GIH (growth inhibiting hormone) that can affect the growth rate of their siblings. If you can, you may split them up between 2 20 gals and/or begin jarring early. 50% water changes seems good, some breeders even recommend 75% but I worry about that being too much of a change for the babies in a short amount of time, but it something you could try. Let me tag @indjo @RussellTheShihTzu to see if they have any more ideas.


2 20 gallons would be the same amount of water I have them in now. They are in a 29 and a 10. Obviously I keep fewer fish in the 10 then the 29.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

PNWBettas said:


> 2 20 gallons would be the same amount of water I have them in now. They are in a 29 and a 10. Obviously I keep fewer fish in the 10 then the 29.


Ah, okay. Indjo is a breeder that has far more experience than me so I will wait for a response from him. Personally I do not see anything wrong and I would assume it may just be slow growing babies as they seem healthy otherwise and your care is perfect.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Ah, okay. Indjo is a breeder that has far more experience than me so I will wait for a response from him. Personally I do not see anything wrong and I would assume it may just be slow growing babies as they seem healthy otherwise and your care is perfect.


My thought is it’s mostly the GIH due to the large number of fish. Once I start jaring the babies I assume it will allow them to grow a bit faster. Probably worth my efforts going into the jaring system rather then yet another grow our tank. Also aggression is starting to show more.

The thing about my jar system is it is a drip system. It will be cycled, but it will have shared water. (I will be running salt and a UV sterilizer to prevent illness). So water parameters are not a concern but GIH still is. I’ll probably still be doing daily water changes on the sump until they are full grown. This system would be fantastic if I ever sold imports. Like for real. I will consider it next year for sure.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

I assume you are correct! And I am very interested in learning more about your jar system as I hope to make one similar.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You seem to be doing everything right.II can't think of any reason why they aren't growing faster. . . . .well actually, you didn't guve us their sizes. But from the picture, I'm guessing around 2.5 cm BO.

My result on average;
4 months : 2-3cm BO
5 months : 3 - 3.5cm BO

I often distribute up to 200 in a 50g long. 
No real water changing schedule - change when I think they need it, which could be in a week or two. If planted, less water changing.

Once jarred, growth reduces a great deal. 
Water changes depend on feeding - more food = more water changes.

*** Note:
My water source can be deadly from time to time (when water company fushes their tanks) - reason I don't do as much water changing as I advise.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

indjo said:


> You seem to be doing everything right.II can't think of any reason why they aren't growing faster. . . . .well actually, you didn't guve us their sizes. But from the picture, I'm guessing around 2.5 cm BO.
> 
> My result on average;
> 4 months : 2-3cm BO
> ...


Thanks for the reply!

I guess looking into it more, they seem to be at least in a healthy size range, even im not getting the exact results I may hope for. I found a real cheap 55 gal tub I would love to make into a little pond/tank next time I breed but they are becoming aggressive and showing me it’s time to jar them. At least once I jar the larger ones the smaller ones will have more space to catch up.

my jar system should get frequent water changes so I’m hoping I can keep the growth rate high but we shal see. I’ll keep you updated. I’m hoping to start shipping in 2 months so hopefully I’m at least setting myself up for that.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

Alrighty here’s some photos 

I don’t know how their color will end up looking since I haven’t seen any other fccp spawn logs. It will be interesting to see. Their star tails and form look great though.


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## AlphaBettas (May 12, 2020)

Wow they're stunning!


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

The jaring system is still under construction currently so I only have about 10 ish fish in jars. Ugh!

I tried using reptile heat tape and it’s not working at al!!! It’s only cooling down and won’t heat the jars above like 65-70 (obviously that doesn’t work haha). Anyone have this experience? It’s THG tape from Pangea reptile.

oh well working towards a solution! Here’s a photo of one of my large males as he marbles out a bit! He started with that really dark body and copper tail and now he’s turning into a more standard red/white fccp. Still has stunning form!! May be my keeper for the males or one of the “breeder grade” ones I sell. Sorry it’s not as good as the other photos. He’s in his jar, rather then my photo tank.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)




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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

So beautiful! I NEED one of the babies-when will you be selling them? Would love to purchase one for a breeding pair.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> So beautiful! I NEED one of the babies-when will you be selling them? Would love to purchase one for a breeding pair.


My guess is I can start selling around 4 months of age, and I will do local pick up now if people like caring for babies. I’m unsure how this forum is when it comes to talking buy/sell so if your very interested shoot me a pm and we can discuss more there. 

one thing though, I would not spawn two of the offspring together. While I am not against line breeding, I am pretty sure the parents are siblings/have been line bred. Because I don’t know how long the breeder I got them from has line bred them, it’s safer to not continue. I would mix in new blood before line breeding them. Any of the ones that I keep won’t be bred together, I’ll be importing some from a different seller to mix up my line.


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## PNWBettas (Feb 7, 2021)

Here’s a little look at the betta barracks system. So far I have 21 jars here. Temp just by heating the sump is 78 right now, hope it goes up.

hoping to move some fish in soon, I need the space










I will have a total of 49 jars total when it’s done


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Looks great!


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## AlphaBettas (May 12, 2020)

Soo organized! :0


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