# The 'NoClean Self Cleaning Aquarium'. Opinions from experienced betta keepers....?



## StarSpun

Hey everyone!

Been a while since I posted. Felt compelled today because of something I came across on the Kickstarter website. For those of you who don't know, it's a place where small businesses can get funded and make their dreams come true

I have pledged to a couple but this one of course stands out because my love of Bettas

The idea behind this is super cool. A desktop aquarium that is the EASIEST thing to clean ever. Check out the link and watch the video!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/930441187/noclean-aquariumstm-self-cleaning-aquarium-for-bet


Cool huh? What is your opinion on it?

I am under the impression that Bettas would much prefer horizontal swimming room rather than vertical. I have talked to the inventors and they are currently working on ideas for different shapes/sizes. Also, I know some will have opinions on the size and the amount of water it can hold....breeders please also give me your opinions, because I know how many keep their fish in beanie baby containers that I believe are roughly the same size....

I am due to get one of their two prototypes this February, (the factory fresh ones are only available in April for others who have pledged) and I will for SURE come back on here with a review on how well it works, etc. 

Ok, fire away folks


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## Luimeril

huh. that's kinda cool. it'd be ALOT better if it were bigger and easy and safe to heat, but otherwise, it's real cool!


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## LittleBettas

I agree with Luimeril.... its a cool idea... but it really should be bigger.... and easier to heat.... I keep my apartment about 75 because thats comftorable for me (and most people).... but that results in any unheated tanks being in the 60s.... so every tank has a heater... but even setted at sat 78-79... I notice a difference between my tanks that are in the 80s
...and kind hesitant about the idea of the cleaning system.... if you have water testers, It's be amazing if you could tell us how thy work out cleaning the water.. and pictures would be AWESOME


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## nel3

i wouldn't consider that for a betta, dont really like the design of it much less its capacity. though i can see how it may be useful to breeders (i dont breed betta).


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## StarSpun

Thanks for the opinions so far!

Luimeril and LittleBettas....I agree. I hope they work on bigger sizes, most people don't keep their rooms warm enough to house Bettas. I keep my place pretty warm, and I am in Florida for half the year with heaters running near the tanks, so I don't have to worry about it. I think for people like me, these can work (I also have started breeding). If they make even at LEAST a gallon with room for a heater cord to go through the top, then it would more suit those living in colder climates. In my experience, 1.5 gallons is the smallest I'd use with a heater....

Nel3, exactly. For breeders this would be AMAZING. They just need to make a cheaper version with plastic....oh how easy that would make life for Betta Breeders!


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## Pitluvs

I like it... in a larger size lol But it's still a very neat idea! I'm still all about the good old taking care of any pet or child I bring into my home though 

Edit to add: The price... that turned me right off. I'd love to buy this tank, but not for the price of a 10g tank. It's not even big enough for a Betta home. Neat idea but it needs tweeking.


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## StarSpun

Pitluvs, exactly 

So the opinions so far are just, make it in a bigger size!

Now, if a bigger size came out, say, 1.5-2 gallons, and the cleaning system worked just as advertised....would you pay the $75-$90 for it? (Not sure how they would price bigger ones, so that's just a guess for now).

I think that regardless, this tank as designed, will save a lot of bettas....so many children and students keep them, and get smaller tanks because the ease of cleaning/transporting. There are so many people who keep bettas without the heat anyway, regardless of how they are warned. At least now they would have a cleaner tank....*shrugs*

What do you all think of the whole vertical/horizontal swimming room?


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## Pitluvs

Honestly, if it was a 2g tank? I would for sure! I wouldn't be switching all my fish over to them, but I would sure love to have one as a collector of fish tanks lol

But yeah, $75 plus shipping/light for a 0.5g? I have one here from WalMart for $7 and I don't mind changing it if it saves me $100. 

I can't wait for your post on how it works out for you!


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## AngesRadieux

I'd really love to see this for larger tank sizes. I don't find cleaning my 2.5 gallon tank too much of a hassle. I can carry it to the sink pretty easily and cleaning it doesn't take too long. Cleaning a 1/5 gallon tank would be even quicker and easier. But, if they were to make this for bigger tanks that are too big and heavy to carry around easily, I'd be a happy camper. Though, I guess for someone who has a lot of tanks this would make life much easier.

I don't know if I'd buy something like this, though. I need those frequent water changes done manually to build some upper body strength. xD


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## angiessa

The worry I had when reading the project description was that they're telling people bettas don't need heaters. They absolutely do, unless you live in a consistently warm environment. :-/

The self cleaning part sounds great...but there needs to be a heater.


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## Fieldz

Wow! Such a nice idea! But I sincerely think 75 is a bit more than I would pay for that...

50 Dollars is enough, dont you think?


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## Sena Hansler

I think that is a pretty good idea... Except that the price is really a downer. For children who want a pet, and they can have only a fish... They don't have 75 for the tank plus 2+ for the fish (betta)... plus food, gravel, a plant :lol: so for overall, the idea is neat, the idea could be beneficial for breeders, but for families who aren't the richest... they probably wouldn't go for a high price for a small set


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## Pitluvs

Well Sena, usually kids who wants Bettas have parents backing them up and paying for things. That's kinda the point of this tank, we all know younger kids get pets and parents end up having to take care of them lol But I agree, price doesn't match. Most parents are not going to pay that price when they can buy a $10 KK at the store or one of those horrible divided 0.5gs. These guys are onto something though, they need to make something that appeals to breeders and Betta fanciers like us, because we're the ones that will spend that kind of money lol


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## tpocicat

I think the concept is wonderful. As has already been said, price and size are the things that would keep me from buying them. Beanies are a lot cheaper.


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## newarkhiphop

yea very good idea, i dont even made the shape of it, just the prices. You can get some really really nice tanks for that price.


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## Sena Hansler

Pitluvs, true, then again I am thinking of my area xDD Kids here, about 70% buy stuff themselves - either from allowance, a job, or their parents putting a cap on the amount they can spend ("only 20 dollars" kind of thing). However that does sound appealing to me o_o (two 10s, one 29, two 20s, a few 3's....... x) ) I'd love to see them incorporate this idea, into larger tanks o.o

However what's scaring me is the sick fish who has ich and raggy fins O_O


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## Pitluvs

It looked like air bubbles to me from a new set up tank *shrugs*


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## Sena Hansler

I've never seen it on bettas  just plants :lol: or ornaments. huh..

but anyways... I wonder how much that'd cost for a larger tank :shock:


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## StarSpun

Thank you everyone for your opinions. They reflect mine. 
Awesome idea, needs some tweaking to appeal to betta keepers

I think the first problem is size, but moreso for the heating issue.
What these guys wanted to do was make a standalone tank, no messy wires, etc etc. I get that vision. But I also think it's only right that Bettas live in comfortable temps. I am not so much a stickler on size. I think one gallon is the minimum but half gallons CAN be acceptable depending on the fish. I've had fish hate bigger tanks and vice versa. It really just depends on the situation. Also, for breeders, a half gallon seems to be acceptable.

Now the problem for them is going to be the price. I think they will lose a lot of biz with the pricing. I have forwarded these issues to them. I can't wait to see their bigger sizes. I also told them that cheaper materials (plastic) to make a version of this tank for breeders would be super. This size is perfect for breeders in a fish room, as heating would not be an issue. Any breeders checking out this thread, let me know what you think. How much would these have to be priced in order for you to give up your beanies?

For everyone else, what is the minimum size you would purchase, and what is the maximum you would pay for said size?

I will for sure be testing the water perimeters when I get mine. Will be very interesting to see how well it works, though in theory it should work....if the water is poured carefully and slowly enough;-)

As for the fish looking like it has ick....mine looks like that in a new tank. The bubbles attach to him. On some of my other bettas, it doesn't happen. Maybe has something to do with the slime coat? Heh!

Thank you all once again, your help is appreciated. I really want to see the right kind of betta tanks on the market, and this idea is so friggin' super cool!


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## thekoimaiden

angiessa said:


> The worry I had when reading the project description was that they're telling people bettas don't need heaters. They absolutely do, unless you live in a consistently warm environment. :-/
> 
> The self cleaning part sounds great...but there needs to be a heater.


I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on this. This was my biggest turn off. The fact that they clearly state "bettas don't need heaters" immediately turned me away from the idea. If they can't get their research right, I wouldn't want to support them. 

I'm also curious to see exactly how clean the water stays. If only I had the money, I'd run an experiment with it myself. I'm not completely trashing the idea. I'm just a scientist who never trusts the person trying to sell me something.


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## newarkhiphop

StarSpun said:


> Thank you everyone for your opinions. They reflect mine.
> Awesome idea, needs some tweaking to appeal to betta keepers
> 
> I think the first problem is size, but moreso for the heating issue.
> What these guys wanted to do was make a standalone tank, no messy wires, etc etc. I get that vision. But I also think it's only right that Bettas live in comfortable temps. I am not so much a stickler on size. I think one gallon is the minimum but half gallons CAN be acceptable depending on the fish. I've had fish hate bigger tanks and vice versa. It really just depends on the situation. Also, for breeders, a half gallon seems to be acceptable.
> 
> Now the problem for them is going to be the price. I think they will lose a lot of biz with the pricing. I have forwarded these issues to them. I can't wait to see their bigger sizes. I also told them that cheaper materials (plastic) to make a version of this tank for breeders would be super. This size is perfect for breeders in a fish room, as heating would not be an issue. Any breeders checking out this thread, let me know what you think. How much would these have to be priced in order for you to give up your beanies?
> 
> For everyone else, what is the minimum size you would purchase, and what is the maximum you would pay for said size?
> 
> I will for sure be testing the water perimeters when I get mine. Will be very interesting to see how well it works, though in theory it should work....if the water is poured carefully and slowly enough;-)
> 
> As for the fish looking like it has ick....mine looks like that in a new tank. The bubbles attach to him. On some of my other bettas, it doesn't happen. Maybe has something to do with the slime coat? Heh!
> 
> Thank you all once again, your help is appreciated. I really want to see the right kind of betta tanks on the market, and this idea is so friggin' super cool!


I would buy a 1 gallon and pay up to $40 for it IF there was a way of putting a heater in there, temp gets too cold where i live during the winter.


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## Pitluvs

See, I never picked up on the heater thing because my tanks are always at 78F. I don't mind not using a heater in smaller tanks. Larger tanks need it here though. 

Personally? I'd pay the $75 for this tank if it were 2g. I'd pay $30 for it as a 0.5g. It's unique, so it's going to cost more for sure but it's a big steep for a "hospital tank".


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## nel3

i wonder how you'd have to clean the gravel. even those people that buy it for "ornamental" purposes. they may be able to change the water within a minute but they'd have to stir the water up quite a bit if they want to get the waste sitting on the bottom out.

theres something about the spout design i find weird. although it may be true they drilled a hole and sealed the spout on it, it just doesnt look as esthetically pleasing to the eyes.


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## Pitluvs

With these tanks, it's a gravitational(?) pull that sucks all the waste up the tube and out the spout. Everything falls under the rocks and into the bottom where it's sucked up


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## OMB

agree with everyone here. If size and shape weren't an issue and I could add a heater - I'd be in - at least to make it easier to have a tank at work that I could clean easy & have it look nice too. Lots of nice looking tanks out there are way overpriced anyway. People will pay for style. (Like this $140 one... http://aruliden.myshopify.com/products/fishscape)

Did they really say "JAPANESE fighting fish" though?

(Thanks for the intro to the Kickstarter site, btw.)


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## nel3

Pitluvs said:


> With these tanks, it's a gravitational(?) pull that sucks all the waste up the tube and out the spout. Everything falls under the rocks and into the bottom where it's sucked up


now, thats a cool idea. i didnt notice the pipe inside. my attention was drawn to the spout design itself.


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## copperarabian

that is sooo awesome!!!!! If only it was bigger D:


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## Luimeril

if it were plastic, instead of glass, they could REALLY cut down on the price. no ones' gonna play that price for a tank of that size. shoot, i could buy a 20 gallon kit for $75! o-o


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## Pitluvs

That's what I was saying! haha I mean in one aspect, it favors the new Betta owner or those who have little time... but the price is more than the average 1 Betta owner would want to pay. On the other hand, the price isn't bad for Betta hobby type people (we're crazy, $65 on one fish?!) but we know enough to know this isn't large enough for out Bettas. They gotta find a middle ground  It's even a lot for Betta Breeders. Lets say the average spawn has 15 males... that's a lot for temp tanks.

I like the idea of glass, and the hardness of the style. But glass is heavy/expensive and more expensive to ship. Plastic/Acrylic would be great and cut down on cost but you're missing the uniqueness of this tank. 

I'm just totally all over this, I'm showing everyone I know.


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## SmokeNLark

OMB said:


> Did they really say "JAPANESE fighting fish" though?


Yeah... I saw that too. Bettas in warm climates don't necessarily need heaters. And they can do decently without them. (All mine have heaters and never will be without, just saying they're hardy fish and the heater issue isn't as widely known) But calling them Japanese fighting fish? At least know what you trying to make a tank for. lol 

But seriously, that's a really cool idea. I would pay around $75 for a 2 gallon. Size and ability to be heated, like everyone else, are my 2 biggest concerns. And I do wish it was a bit more wide, but the wider you make it, the less the mechanism might work for flushing out waste. That will probably need quite a bit of tweaking. It's awesome though. And I would definitely buy one!


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## SmokeNLark

OMB said:


> Did they really say "JAPANESE fighting fish" though?


Yeah... I saw that too. Bettas in warm climates don't necessarily need heaters. And they can do decently without them. (All mine have heaters and never will be without, just saying they're hardy fish and the heater issue isn't as widely known) But calling them Japanese fighting fish? At least know what you trying to make a tank for. lol 

But seriously, that's a really cool idea. I would pay around $75 for a 2 gallon. Size and ability to be heated, like everyone else, are my 2 biggest concerns. And I do wish it was a bit more wide, but the wider you make it, the less the mechanism might work for flushing out waste. That will probably need quite a bit of tweaking. It's awesome though. And I would definitely buy one!


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## wallywestisthebest333

I don't really care what anyone tells me you have to clean any type of tank once in a while. Scum and algae will build up on the walls. Might as well do the water change and get it over with.

Plus that thing is simple to make from the looks of it. Drill a hole, cap it with rubber seal it, then have a piece of clear acrylic tubing cut that goes to the bottom. presto. You got yourself one of those.

Also pouring the water in like that could temperature shock them and they didn't mention dechlorinating the water first. People would most likely get it from their tap and considering the price range of the "tank" the tap water in the home of an owner of it would probably have chlorinated water.

It's cute. There's no denying that. And I keep my boy in jars sometimes when I need his fins to heal or his tank needs working on for a few days but it's impractical for me personally.


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## LittleBettas

Lol wally.. touche... it would be easy to make if you had the supplies... and I personally like washing my tanks walls after every 100% water change


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## EmmaliLucia

If they ever make a two gallon version alert me immediately. 

Jack flips out every time I clean his tank, he'll turn white and sink to the bottom, the first two times he did it I was positive he was dying. This is such a perfect idea..


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## livingart

wallywestisthebest333 said:


> Plus that thing is simple to make from the looks of it. Drill a hole, cap it with rubber seal it, then have a piece of clear acrylic tubing cut that goes to the bottom. presto. You got yourself one of those.


That's exactly what I was thinking. You could make it yourself, bigger and cheaper. Lol!

Hmm, I may actually do that.


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## wallywestisthebest333

Hahaha. Good to know I'm not the only one! XD Nice to meet you all. I'm that one member that comes back from the dreadful void of real life every five months or so. *waves* I love the fish in your avatars!


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## EmmaliLucia

Here's what they commented:
"We've made self-cleaning systems for all different sizes of aquariums - up to 55 gallons. We hope to offer all kinds of setups in the near future (maybe even custom). The larger this project grows and the more attention we attract, the more we can do. So please share this project with everyone you know. We really appreciate your support!"


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## StarSpun

Hello everyone!

Your comments are all awesome! Thank you....I have directed the inventors to this post so they can get the feedback.

I have received my prototype in the mail, and have it set up with my new Chard56 betta, Casper (formally named Ghost). He is a baby and doesn't seem to mind the size....YET. Nor the vertical. I won't keep him permanently in a tank this small but while we're traveling he's going to be the NoClean Aquarium tester He's been blowing bubble nests left right and crooked in the thing. Temp stays around 79, with me being in Florida and all.

As for my opinion. With faults aside, and the way it works for me in this climate, I have to say, it's pretty darned AWESOME. It really works....no joke. I tested it by having debris on TOP and in between the marbles, and yet, when I poured the clean water in, the suction sucked it right under, in the tube and out the spout into the glass. I'm sorry, I can't post any pics or video (unless approved by the inventors....I will ask for permission as I have taken lots of vids and pics!) because I have the very first prototype, and the factory fresh ones are hitting the public in April. 


Anyhoo, as far as water goes, I didn't test in the beginning (will do that in a couple of days) but ammonia is 0 after two glasses. I will do more testing of the parameters in a couple of days and report back the before and after results.

The tank itself is really cool because it's fairly easy to move around, as long as you keep the side with the spout tilted back, ha ha! At night it's beautiful with the led lights. The white leds are bright, good to see your fish as if in daytime. The colored lights are very cool at night though....I lay in bed watching Casper build a bubble nest in a nice pink light. The colored light pack comes with four separate pieces, one blue, one green, one pink and one that changes color.

Anyway, I'm impressed. I know a lot of you like to scrub everything spotless after a 100% water change....I used to do the same but I find that stresses the fish more, and I think it's good to leave a bit of a layer on things, as long as it's not unsightly looking. I choose to do a full clean of the inside every month. This tank is super easy if you don't want to lug it to the sink....just take two glasses with you, a full one with treated water at the same temp as the tank water and an empty one. And presto, clean water, happy unstressed fish, and less time cleaning

I do think an acrylic tank like this would help them out, as some of you have mentioned, glass is heavy, and breakable, not idea to ship unless someone really wants the glass. A high quality acrylic would be the best idea....if they make a 1+ gallon tank made of acrylic, I'm in for like, 16 of them!

Either way, I think this is just super!
Any breeders on here....would you buy a cheap version of this for your spawn? What price would you purchase at?

Will update more soon!


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## newarkhiphop

post pics plz starspun


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## Aus

> There are so many people who keep bettas without the heat anyway, regardless of how they are warned. At least now they would have a cleaner tank....*shrugs*


And weak fish that get sick, unless their owners live somewhere consistently warm. I think it's a bit irresponsible as an advocate of these tanks to be *shrugs* about it, when it's the fish who will suffer and live shorter, uncomfortable lives in cold water in this product.

That said - I like the idea of a 2g version. The tanks are attractive, good for smaller spaces, and ofc no-clean is awesome, if it works as advertised. Plastic/acrylic option would be great, less cost and lighter to carry. A 2g set up would be ideal for my teenager's room. I'd be uncomfortable permanently housing a betta in less, particularly as the design is so vertical and thus natural swimming is affected. 

And I think the advertising needs cleaning up re betta requirements (ie, that they ARE tropical fish, need water conditioner, do experience temp shock, etc). And maybe the species name right. :B

I also think a "cold area" version, where maybe the lights provide adequate heat or they figure out how to incorporate a heater neatly would sell me on this. Where I live, the temps range from 100F+ in summer to 41F n winter, way too much variation. 

If heating proves impossible, I would expect the advertising to support the welfare of the fish - ie, "not suitable for bettas and other tropical fish in non-tropical areas" (and why) for example. To not do so would be unethical, imo.


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## Aus

Sorry, I should have added: I would LOVE one of those pictured glass tanks as a CW 'mini-pond' for snails and some native water plants. I kept a small 'pond' going - complete with a surprise crop of tadpoles - for about 2 years in a tank of that size and shape, and it provided us with many hours of pleasure, watching the snails make little slime-bridges between the plants, etc. We even had a few dragonfly babies (who snacked on a few taddies until we found them!) hiding in the weeds. I think this set up would be great for CW stuff like that, fantastic and educational for the kids. 

(we let all the taddies go but three, and two grew to maturity in thier own large tank, and we kept the resulting frogs for years, was awesome!)


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## OMGemily

isnt copper bad for fish?


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## SpookyTooth

I think this is a great concept however the execution of it is a little lacking in my opinion. As others have stated the room for a heater and more horizontal swimming space instead of vertical would be ideal, especially in a larger size; I would happily pay for a 5 gal.

For those such as myself who have medical issues that make water changes excessively painful and exhausting this sort of thing would save so much stress, I can also see its potential when it comes to breeders and others who maybe do not have as much time as they would like to get water changes done. I'm also paranoid about my electricity useage and would simply adore an aquarium system that would not require a filter (would still use a heater) but that doesn't need to be lugged around every couple of days.

While it would somewhat limit how it could be decorated I would gladly sacrifice that if it meant I could keep a happy, healthy, heated betta while also keeping myself happy, healthy and not in agony when doing water changes heh.

I would also like it if it was available in the UK. -nods profusely-


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## StarSpun

Ok update number one!

I've done some testing and have more to write

So I've left the tank for almost two days, and tested the ammonia. The level was between .25 and .50. Won't do that again! I have two big tervis glasses....so when I say one cup, I mean those. Not sure how much water is in them. After the second cup, it was around .25. One more cup....brought it down to close to 0. I did one more for good measure.

So, result is....you have to change at least one large cup of water in this tank daily....which isn't surprising due to the size of it. I think the inventors need to let people know, that this tank must be changed EVERYDAY or else the betta will be unhealthy and swimming in it's own waste.

Also, I find that pouring the water in slowly may help with less glasses to change the water. You want to make sure the newest water stays at the top, while the old is sucked out. Pouring it hard, in my opinion, would result in it going to the bottom and it being flushed out too fast, if that makes sense....

That's all for now. Will post more later


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## Bombalurina

StarSpun, your avatar is making me drool.

How do you heat this odd little tank?


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## StarSpun

Bombalurina said:


> StarSpun, your avatar is making me drool.
> 
> How do you heat this odd little tank?


Awww thanks! Sadly, the male in the icon isn't doing too well....some mystery ailment....just posted in the disease section yesterday:-( He sure was a beauty though!

So heating, I would do with either a heating cable, or a small heat pad near by. The problem with this tank is, it's too small to safely heat it correctly. The most reliable heater I've found so far (for small tanks) is the Hydor Theo 25w....with thermostat. I wouldn't put those in under a gallon. Better yet, not under a gallon and a half.

I can successfully use this tank because I am located in Florida at the moment. If it dips down, I have a heater with a thermostat aimed towards the fish tanks. So for anyone north, these aren't a great idea unless you have a fish room, or, like me, keep the place at 78+ (hey, I like the heat, what can I say?!)

I have been talking to the inventors, and bigger sizes are being worked on....ones that will allow heaters to be safely used


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## Foisair

Yay! I'm so glad someone started a thread on these. I saw them on kickstarted a while ago and while I would have loved to test one as well, I couldn't aford it. I'm glad that the inventors are working with actual betta owners. As mentioned, they seemed to be a little ill informed at the begining. I'm sure they've learned a lot as well. Like everyone else, the price and small size is a turn off. However, at the same time, I was unsure on the physics and if they would continue to work in a bigger tank. I'm overjoyed that they are working on larger ones. I will be keeping an eye out for them.


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## OregonDreamsBettas

These look great... trying to find a way to house my new spawn when they are old enough. However for $70 I could never afford to buy in the quantity I would need to make it worth while... It does give me ideas ... like buying a glass drill and making my own!


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## socold57

any more updates ?


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