# Help! Bloated and Sinking :(



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Hello everyone, 

I really need your help! 

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2 gall
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? by himself
Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? betta bio-gold pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1 time/day, about 4-5 pellets

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? top fin water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? Yes, everything is good 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? swollen
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? bottom, lethargic, and hard time going up for air
When did you start noticing the symptoms? about 2 weeks ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? clean water, lowered water for easy surfacing, gave him peas
Does your fish have any history of being ill? had minor pop-eye about a year ago, cured easily
How old is your fish (approximately)? 2.5 years


A couple of weeks ago, I went to do his weekly water change and he totally FREAKED OUT in the net, and when I was able to get him out of the net and into the small changing bowl, he was completely sideways! After a minute he was right side up, but I knew something was wrong. 
After putting him back into his clean tank, I noticed that he was always at the bottom and had a very hard time going up for air - some times he was completely vertical trying to go up, poor thing 
So I lowered his water level to about 3-4" so he could manage.
I also noticed he was swollen on both sides of his body after his pectoral fins (not hanging low like I've seen others), so I thought it could be constipation and fed him a piece of pea and no pellets for a couple of days. The swelling went down a bit.
It's now 2 weeks later and he is still a little swollen and definately still having difficulty surfacing...
Can someone please help me???
I'm going to get some espum salt now and put him in a 1 gal tank with 1 teaspoon of eps salt....
Is it swim bladder disease? Dropsy? Please help me


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Here is a pic I just took of Dino in his mere 2 cups of water, being completely vertical....it's as if his back end sinks....my boyfriend seems to think there's something wrong with his back, or back end... I need some advise..The water he's in now is treated and has epsum salt.


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

Ok, he has swim bladder disorder, which means he cannot regulate his bouyancy. Probably caused by constipation. Try instead of feeding 4 pellets once a day, feed 2 pellets twice a day. The swim bladder is likely caused by constipation pushing on his swim bladder. Constipaion is from feeding him too much at once. Just stop feeding for a few days and feed 2 pellets every few days and update so I know ifhe needs more. 

DO NOT FEED BETA FISH PEAS! Tht is for goldfish and is just a rumor


----------



## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I've heard that feeding Daphina is good for poopy fish. 

Edit: You can do an Epsom salt treatment if you'd like. 1-2tsp/gal, and just fast him.


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

thank you!

Ok, I'll start feeding him 2 pellets twice aday. 

But what about fasting? Should I feed him every other day? Or how long should he go without eating?

He's in 2 cups of water with a tiny pinch of epsum salt as of last night. His water should be checked daily, correct?

I did notice he pooped today - no gravel makes it easy to spot


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

A big poop? After my bettas are constipated, I see a few BIG poops scattered all over.


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

no, not too big, looks like a soaked pellet. 
ok, you asked for it, here's a picture lol!
this was taken from the top.


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

Does that leaf have a suction cup? Maybe you could suction it a couple inches below the surface so he can rest on it and not have to swim all the way up to breathe.


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

It did have a suction cup, but i can't find it 

I fed him 2 pellets yesterday in the morning, and nothing at night. This morning I fed him 1 pellet. Let's see if he poos today. 

His appetite is always like a shark, so I guess that's a good sign.

How long should I keep him in the little bowl doing epsom baths?


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

really not sure, not an expert here. I think you can do it as long as you need. Remember, 2 pellets every few days untill his gut is cleaned out. The lump is a bit far back though. I would ask someone else on this one


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

thank you pogthefish. 

I'l wait and see...poor thing is so hungry that he's eating the air bubbles on the surface! I feel really bad like i'm starving him, but i know this is for the best.

anyone else can chip in with their diagnosis?  all opinions are greatly appreciated!


----------



## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Eating the air bubble...lol...he might be making a bubble nest, does he point his mouth up to the surface of the water and blow bubbles ? Do they sort of stick together in one spot ? I just dont know what to tell you but just keep track of how much he is eating and pooping and maybe do the treatment a couple more days and then put him back into the bigger tank and see how he does. Good luck I hope he is all better soon !


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

Betta fish do not feel hunger. They have a constant instinct to eat whatever they can find that is edible, and they can die if they are overfed, because they do not feel full either. In the wild, they can go weeks without eating (in the extremes) where humans can only go a week or so. (but we blow them away with how long we can go without water


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok so things are not looking better at all.

He's still in his 2 cups of water bowl with epsom salt, daily changes - I have only seen 1 little poo like 3 days ago - feeding him 1 pellet twice a day - yesterday and today there seems to be lots of "film" in the water as well as stuck on his fins...I dont know what that is. And no poop.

Yesterday I noticed his color was duller, the red is almost orange-grey.

And this morning, his scales look kind of pointy, like the dreaded dropsy pinecones 

Here is a picture I just took. Can you see the scales and the film on his fin?

He's still hungry as a shark, but he's still buoyancy-defective and seems to lie sideways sometimes.

What should I do?


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

I think we need to get experts in here... I honestly have no idea DX


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

I still think you are feeding him too much though. Just go a few days with no food and see what happens, like 3 days, zero food. It won't hurt him, I promise.


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

And is it an adjustable heater? If it is, raise the temp to 80 degrees.


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

ok, I'll fast him for 3 days. And he doesnt have a heater in there because it's a small bowl and the heater wont be submerged like it needs to be - I have the bowl kind of coverd with plastic wrap to keep the warmth and humidity in.

I read somewhere about adding 1 drop of Betta Revive daily for 2 weeks - I'll see if I can find it and start doing that.


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

What you can do to heat the bowl is fill his old tank with water and heat that and float the bowl in there. Plastic wrap keeps oxygen from getting in.


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh that's a great idea! thank u


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Update: I read this article and thought I'd give it a try as I dont know what else to do.
http://nippyfish.net/2009/09/18/curing-dropsy-in-betta-fish/

So today I added his first drop of *Betta Revive* to his daily water changes, in addition ot the epsom salt. Here's a pciture of Dino in blue water 

Also, I haven't fed him in 2 days, and I found a poo today! I'll kmeep fasting him until Wednesday. But he still looks the same, a little bloated, discolored, slightly pineconed and spending his time vertical which bothers me the most. :-(


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

Yeah, keep going until wednesday, then go ahead and give him ONE pellet, then fast a day, then one pellet a day until he is better. Also, have I mentioned espom salt yet?


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

it's been 5 days of daily water changes with epsom salt and betta revive, but Dino is not pulling through...he is actually getting worse 

I really really don't want to euthanize him because I'm not convinced that he won't suffer with any of the methods I read about....I wanted him to die naturally; but he is just miserable and might be in pain now, so I have no option but to do it.

I read many many posts and articles on different ways to do it, and I think I'm going to go with the clove oil.

Wish me luck and say a little prayer for Dino today


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

Wait! let me get someone who knows more than me, hold on! I haven't dealt with many sick fish.


----------



## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Hold on okay lets see if we can get someone who really knows about this type of illness and wait to see what they say before you do anything ok ?


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

WAIT!! DON'T GIVE UP ON HIM YET!!
My fish became deathly ill as well. It sounds a bit like what is wrong with your fish.
I did nearly everything that you did, except I added 3tsp epsom salt/gallon instead on 1tsp/1.5 gallon. I too used bettaREVIVE.
If he cannot swim to get to the top to breathe, lower the water level so he can. Change it every other day (as to NOT stress him out), but I do recommend using a turkey baster or something to remove his waste. Keep his water temperature warm (around 80). To do this, I set him on a heating pad in dim lighting (also to not cause unneccessary stress).
If he'll eat, that should be a good sign. Mine was unable to eat, so I did not feed him.

This all worked for my fish. I suggest giving these methods a shot, it could work.

Best of wishes!  Sorry about your fish. I know its hard.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

LittleFish2012 said:


> WAIT!! DON'T GIVE UP ON HIM YET!!
> My fish became deathly ill as well. It sounds a bit like what is wrong with your fish.
> I did nearly everything that you did, except I added 3tsp epsom salt/gallon instead on 1tsp/1.5 gallon. I too used bettaREVIVE.
> If he cannot swim to get to the top to breathe, lower the water level so he can. Change it every other day (as to NOT stress him out), but I do recommend using a turkey baster or something to remove his waste. Keep his water temperature warm (around 80). To do this, I set him on a heating pad in dim lighting (also to not cause unneccessary stress).
> ...


 
*PLEASE NOTE*: I am not an expert on sick fish! I do happen to have some experience with these symptoms. I do not know what is wrong with him. These are just some steps that I would take were he mine.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If he is pine-conning he may be in system failure and not a lot we can do other than keep them comfy, however, we also don't want to give up too soon-provided that they are not suffering-then we need to do what is right by the Betta.....

Good that you have him in a small container covered with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat/humidity for the labyrinth organ.
Premix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal _(Not aquarium salt_)and a tannin source if you have one-either IAL(_1lrg crushed/gal)_ or naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf (_20 crushed/gal_). Let this steep for 30min-Shake well...

Using this premixed treatment water-make 25% water changes every 15min for 1 hour today-This will get him acclimated to the new chemistry and start the 10-14 day treatment.

He need to stay in the QT in the premixed treatment water for the duration of the treatment period.

Tomorrow-start 50% daily water changes using the premixed treatment water
If you used a tannin source the water should look darker every day and this is what you want.
Don't worry about any leaf bit that fall in the QT with him.

Nutrition-If you have access to live mosquito larva offer several rinsed several times a day-Otherwise a good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals......

Good luck...and keep us posted....


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

wow where had you guys been??
my little Dino passed away on his own yesterday :BIGweepy:
just as i got home from the pharmacy with the clove oil, I found him dead.

I wish I would've known about doubling the epsom salt or the leaf thing...I could've saved him :BIGweepy: I feel really bad about not doing everything possible, I wish I knew those things earlier.....

Anyway, I'll keep those in mind in case I get another Betta, but I dont think I will


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry for you loss and sorry I was on vacation, however, once he started to pine cone usually that is a sign of system failure and not anything you could have done to save him....You didn't do anything wrong...it happens...

Again sorry for your loss....don't give up.....


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks


----------



## Pogthefish (Mar 24, 2012)

I feel so bad not getting you guys sooner! D:


----------



## Dynomite (Dec 28, 2010)

No, don't feel bad Pog! We did what we knew at the time.

I buried him in my parent's backyard, with a flower and the St. Jude chaplet that was hanging over his tank in his last days....it was nice and gave me closure.

Thanks again for all those who helped me


----------



## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I am so sad and sorry to hear of your loss but you did everything you could of the little guy and be happy about that at least you tried. to save him ..Hugs !!!!


----------

