# IAL and live plants



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I took out the IAL and my plants seem to be doing great. But I hate that I cannot give my bettas a blackwater environment now.
Will IAL harm the live plants? Or snails?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

excellent question, subscribe


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I use IAL to treat my fish. and when Im done... I run my filter with purigen and clear out the water. not sure what ur question was but...

My ial never harmed plants...


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Well I heard something like it messes with pH of water. Or the blackwater affects photosynthesis..


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm glad you posted this, I'm actually having the opposite problem. My 29g comminuty, the plants used to thrive before but now that I have taken out all IAL and tinted water, my plants are dying. Mine did better WITH IAL. Totally going to watch this thread


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Pitluvs said:


> I'm glad you posted this, I'm actually having the opposite problem. My 29g comminuty, the plants used to thrive before but now that I have taken out all IAL and tinted water, my plants are dying. Mine did better WITH IAL. Totally going to watch this thread


:hmm:


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

omg lol


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Using IAL tints the water, which means not as much light will be available to your plants. You can compensate by using a higher rated light, or instead choosing lower light plants such as anubias, java fern etc. 

Also it depends on how dark your water to be. I was successfully growing ambulia in a very dark tank (think water was almost black) by using a very strong light over the top. 

I have found many aquatic plants prefer slightly softer water. You just don't want to make it too acidic, although some of my tanks have very low pH and carbonate hardness, and all my 'low tech' plants are thriving. 

Betta splendens don't really need a blackwater environment. They aren't like some of the wild bettas that require an extremely low pH to thrive. I only use a very small amount of IAL in with my CTs because of their finnage. Otherwise none of my other bettas used to have any in with them.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I found my bettas made more bubble nests and seemed more happy with the IAL. So IAL does lower the pH.. And softens the water? NOT good for snails. Gotcha. Tha's good to know, thanks!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

so wait... lowering PH i understand. but howwwww in the world does IAL soften water?!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Here's a page I found in a two second google search describing some properties of the IAL.

http://www.allnaturalpetcare.com/Indian_Almond_Leaves-Terminalia_Catappa-Ketapang-Aquarium.html

If your water has a low KH like mine, it will be much easier for the IAL to alter the chemistry of the water. However, for places with alkaline water and higher KH value, generally peat moss and IAL (the two main 'softening agents') are not going to be enough. Usually in those instances, you have to cut your source water with rain or RO water to decrease the KH value, which in turn should lower your pH.


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

In my tanks with a lot of IAL I wait to add more leaves after a water change to give the plants a few days to recover. In the tanks where that's not feasible because the fish are shy, I swap out the plants so they're not in the blackwater for more than 2 weeks.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

*reads*

What i mean is hardness is a measure of dissolved minerals in the water right...?

how would IAL reduce that...?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't really know. Maybe the acidity of the leaf as it releases tannins and breaks down has something to do with.


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

Yeah my guess is that the carbon and/or nitrogen released by decomposition bind to minerals, maybe helped along by the tannins(?), and live plants will suck them up. I also use snails the help out with processing decaying plant bits too. The end product of that would be more oxygen in the water instead of minerals so I suppose that could lower hardness if you've got an efficient ecosystem in place to deal with everything. I don't pay close attention to my water hardness. I just know it's 8.4 out of the tap and naturally settles to 7.6ish, and the IAL will help take it down a little further. And I have a lot of iron in my tap water.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

This has gotten complicated. What's kH of water? I know there is a lot of chlorine in my taps bc I can smell it if I run them long enough..
So decaying plant matter (from say, my hygrophilia) is beneficial like IAL but it doesn't release tannins?


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

Laki said:


> This has gotten complicated. What's kH of water? I know there is a lot of chlorine in my taps bc I can smell it if I run them long enough..
> So decaying plant matter (from say, my hygrophilia) is beneficial like IAL but it doesn't release tannins?


Yes and no. The right amount of decaying plant matter is good, it produces infusoria. A healthy eco-system can deal with a steady amount of it. If there is too much decaying stuff, then you can run into problems with ammonia spikes.

From the wikipedia entry on KH:

KH - Buffering capacity, temporary or carbonate hardness in the water.
Also known as 'total alkalinity' or 'acid-neutralizing capacity' (ANC) in some countries.
In tanks with a low KH value, say under 2-3d (35.7-53.6ppm), the respiration of the plants or animals at night (CO2 production) can cause large pH shifts which harm and eventually kill aquatic animals. This is called pH shock. It is due to lack of water buffering.
KH is consumed by nitrifying bacteria 24/7 so either your substrate generates more, you perform water changes to supplement it or you add chemicals to add KH to your aquarium as otherwise it causes a pH crash/shock.
If you live with soft water then you may need to raise it before you add aquatic animals to it. Measure the KH value and if it's less than 4d (71.4ppm) then add some of the items below to increase it.
Remember that KH always tends to go down over time (See old tank syndrome). KH is also reduced by the action of nitrifying bacteria and by water surface agitation.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

omg so... 
My running 5g can just crash overnight due to kH. 
o-o
I never measured a thing in my water with any testing kit.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Laki, Gh and Kh here in the city are so low it's practically nonexistant


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

now im confused... I didnt know you couldnt have live plants w/ IAL? Asside from less light is there another reason its not good for live plants? I like to have both...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Apparently queens Gh or KH is 0 forgot which one.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh. So I only need to worry about pH then.. gah, so confusing! I like the ignorance of just plunking my fish in and forgetting about it. lol 
So IAL can soften the water then, and therefore ruin snail shells if they don't have cuttle bone.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well it all depends. Snails shells depends on calcium so, you will have to see the calcium hardness of your water. Also only if your water's ph is below 7, will the acidity eat away at your snail's shell.
If IAL is capable of bringing down your GH and KH, but tour water is very hard anyway, it may not have much of an impact at all. this includes PH. if the water is fairly hard, the impact of IAL on PH will be low. as opposed to soft water, where PH change may be dramatic. 

That said, I've yet to lose a fish or planta to IAL. so dont worry about it and use to your hearts content. I do prefer clear water, so I clear it out once I'm done. you dont have to. instead you can find a middle ground between tea colored water and light penetration


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

okay! thanks! I love the look of IAL and I like to use it long term for overall preventative care. Plus I like the look of decaying leaves in the water lol, I like it au naturel!


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

i didnt read through the whole thing because im a bit lazy atm but IAL is fairly common in planted tanks, esp for shrimp keepers. I generally soak mine for a day or two to get tannins out before putting it in my tank.


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

Yeah I keep my tanks pretty dark with IAL for my wilds, and the plants have not been affected at all. I dose my tanks with calcium supplements from the pharmacy to keep snail shells healthy  I will often find snails stuffing their faces full of it, they look like Dave Chapelle playing a crackhead XD


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

lol oh Chappelle...


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