# Seachem Prime with Tetra Safestart/Dr Tim's One and Only



## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Hi all!

So there's been a few 'help with cycle' type threads recently where the use of Seachem Prime with either Tetra Safestart or Dr Tim's One and Only has become a source of contention, and I thought it would be a good idea if we could pool our information and discuss it!

Questions I have:

1. Does Seachem Prime affect the length of the cycle without the use of a bacteria starter?
2. Does Seachem Prime interfere with Tetra Safestart?
3. Does Seachem Prime interfere with Dr Tim's One and Only?
4. What evidence do we have and from what sources?


I'll start things off. I was under the understanding that Seachem Prime DID affect the efficiency of at least Tetra Safestart, based on the following Q&A with Tetra that I found a while back: http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html. The relevant quote from this discussion is:

_'In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live.'_

It's only based on an email exchange with the company posted on another forum a while back, so admittedly the information may be incorrect/out of date. However, based on this I didn't use Prime in conjunction with Safestart during a fish-in cycle, however I did use it to condition initially and again seven days after using Safestart, when I began water changes.


I'm just interested in what others have found from their research, and what the most up-to-date guidance is on this!


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

1. Not really. My first cycle ever was a fish-in cycle done without SafeStart and using Prime as a safety net and took 3 weeks. That's 7 more days than Tetra claims that you will be able to do a fish-in cycle with SafeStart and the safety of the fish was never compromised.

2. In my experience and many other fishkeepers, no. I've cycled tanks in about 6 days to 2 weeks using Prime, SafeStart and a nickel's worth of pure ammonia. Tetra would have you believe that you should not change water for 2 weeks while doing a fish-in cycle. This in my opinion is animal abuse and is irresponsible for them to suggest us to do so. I would rather protect a fish with water changes and a few drops of Prime and maybe add a few days on to the cycling process than follow Tetra's instructions to the letter and deal with the ammonia poisoning later. 

3 & 4. If is overdosed, yes. But you can still use it as your water conditioner. 

From Dr.Tim's FAQ, _"Before adding One & Only to your tank, make sure the water has been dechlorinated. Research has shown that One & Only can be safely used with Dr. Tim’s Aquatics AquaCleanse tapwater detoxifier. Other dechlorinators can be used but some are actually harmful to One & Only: do not use any product that contains aldehydes in its formula."_ Prime does not contain aldehydes.
From the Seachem Website,
[url]http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=3882[/URL]

I wouldn't consider the 2 drops per gallon daily formula that Hallyx came up with overdose. In my book protecting the fish with testing, water changes & Prime is paramount when doing a fish-in cycle. 

But it's really a moot point because One & Only is designed for a fishless cycle so no water changes are necessary until the tank is cycled. So if you were to use Prime to initially condition your water before using One & Only at the recommenced dosage I really don't see any issues. 

From what I gather Dr.Tim is not telling you to not use Prime, it seems like he's more concerned with overdosing it and slowing down the bacteria.

In my opinion Dr.Tim wants to sell you _his_ products to use with _his_ bacteria, same with Tetra. Why would they encourage you to purchase a product from a competitor if it works just as well?

Dr.Tim will have you on the hook for about 120 bucks if you buy his One & Only, Ammonia, AquaCleanse & recommended test kits (50 tests). That's not including tax, shipping & handling and a cold pack if needed. 









I'm not bashing Dr. Tim, everybody has to make a buck. I'm a big fan of the bio-wheel filter he designed and use them in all my non-betta tanks.

My Question is, what makes AquaSafe different from Prime? Dr. Tim claims that AquaSafe removes ammonia unlike Prime which only binds it. Is there any truth to this? If there is shouldn't we all be using AquaSafe instead of Prime? 

I really don't have a dog in this race. I just know what works for me and have seen first hand what has been working for other people on the forum.


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## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

No, I definitely don't want to begin a massive debate - I just figured there has to be some kind of science-based answer to these questions 

I'm interested particularly because I don't believe we can get One & Only for fishless cycling in the UK. For my recent fishless cycle I used Prime to condition the water initially then Tetra Safestart + pure household ammonia. I have to say, it took absolutely ages, at least 8 weeks and still has a tendency to go a bit wonky after 12 weeks, but it seems to be settling slowly with the help of Stability. I have been using quite a high ppm of ammonia though so I'm hoping once a big water change is done and fishy is in it will be more than adequate to manage his bioload. I doubt my rubbish fishless cycle is anything to do with the Prime at all, and is likely something I have managed to get wrong.

Thanks for the info, Mike! And I do agree that it isn't worth compromising fish safety. Sadly, for my fish, I believed what Tetra said about the brief period of 'stress' levels and I wish, in hindsight, I'd have thought more carefully about it. I've probably lopped a bit of his lifespan off due to my inexperience  In all honesty I'm looking forward to the day I have plenty of mature media I can use in new tanks instead of Safestart.


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## trumpredmr (Feb 4, 2016)

Sooooo I'm using Dr. Tim's One and Only. Guess I bought into it. It's been about 9 days and I'm still not cycled. Still getting a reading of 2.0ppm Ammonia and after doing water changes with just decholr, my readings are all over the place. I guess I'm just gonna have to keep waiting. 

My question: Would it be ok to use Prime when doing water changes in the future once the tank is cycled?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That's primarily what Prime is for -- to lock up the ammonia released from the removal of chlorine from the chloramine found in most municipal water supplies (chloramine = ammonia + chlorine). Seachem recommends 2-drops/gal of refill water in a cycled tank.

Its use as a safety factor when fish-in cycling is not what Seachem designed Prime for, but they do include it as a valid use.

Dr Tim Hovanec designed both Safestart and O&O to be used for _fish-in_ cycles. Fishless also works, but the instructions are included in a separate section on his website.

An ammonia reading of 2.0ppm is about right for a fishless cycle. Why are you changing water?

What are your actual readings -- all of them? Nine-days is not a long time, even with bottled bacteria.


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## trumpredmr (Feb 4, 2016)

I'm actually doing a fishless cycle (just upgrading Henry to a better tank so he's fine where he is right now). 

I followed the fishless cycle directions using O&O to the T and am still getting the 2.0 Am reading. I did a water change, because their team said it would be fine as long as I used only dechlor, not Prime which I followed. 

My readings last night were all over: 2.0 Am, 1.0 trite, 10-20 trate. It was less than 24 hrs after the water change so I'm not too worried about it. 

Ok....9 days is not a long time.....good to know. I'm being dumb and anxious I guess lol wanting to move him in  Before reading all the great info on here I did the whole "running the tank for two days using Prime" and then added him......it's a wonder he survived my lack of knowledge. Thx!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

It's sometimes fun to run a fishless cycle, just to see how it goes, even though a fish-in cycle is usually easier (even if it takes longer).

My shortest cycle was 5-days, dosing NH3 to >6.0ppm and temperature almost 90*, seeded with a shot-glass full of goldfish gravel.

So if you get your cycle established in 2-weeks, you're doing really well.


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## Rennie Sky (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm currently doing a fishless in a 20 gallon. I used Prime initially then doused with ammonia over a day or two, adding gradually since I didn't want tho get it too high and have tho do a water change. I got ammonia to 2.0, waited until it has been the full 24 hours after Prime as they recommend and started. Still no changes several days in, but will update huge many days it takes. 

My two five gallons cycled in about 5 weeks with TSS added maybe 3.5 weeks in. I'd seen no change, but then rapidly moved through cycle. I continued to use Prime daily.


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