# evaluate captain hook? sf-ee-hm-pk :)



## Leviandolivia

by no means do i want to show him i am just curious about his conformation && what is his colour called? (if theres a name for it) 
*he was sold to me as a short fin male elephant ear halfmoon plakat*
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## BettaBoy51

why did you post this in SHOW BETTAS if hes not show quality and your not gonna show him? this would be better suited for the BETTA PICTURE section


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## cousiniguana

Totally gorgeous!


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## Leviandolivia

BettaBoy51 said:


> why did you post this in SHOW BETTAS if hes not show quality and your not gonna show him? this would be better suited for the BETTA PICTURE section


sorry, I am relatively new here :/ I figured that if I post under show bettas people who evaluate show bettas would look at him.


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## BettaBoy51

its no problem!  hes a really cool looking fish!


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## kevinap2

Just FYI, there are some people here who take showing bettas quite seriously and if you are not evaluating strictly for show, they get pretty upset that you are posting here. I get where you're coming from, just making you aware that some people get really picky about such things.

I am *not* one of those people- never shown a betta before and don't really plan to. BUT- I can tell you that from a show standpoint, that notch in his back right by his dorsal would be a big fault. You would also want his anal fin to be straighter- more like a straight, even line. I don't know if there are any more potential faults there, but those are the ones I see with an inexperienced eye.

However, he is quite a striking pet fish, and you did a good job setting him up for a photo shoot.


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## KTBetta

*Cool Fish!*

Your guy is so handsome! Really great pictures of him, makes it a lot easier and fun to evaluate!

I'm just practicing evaluating; I haven't shown before, but this is what I see:

His color is pastel salamander. He would probably be shown in multicolor class.
http://www.bettysplendens.com/colors--patterns.html

His topline is bumpy when it needs to be smooth with no dips. He has a nice sturdy body though. 

His dorsal is nice and big. The edges of the caudal(tail) and anal are a little uneven. The branching in the caudal fin is nice and goes out to 4. The outside edges of the caudal could have longer rays to make the edges sharper on the D shape of the tail.

If he was being shown as an asymetrical halfmoon plakat, he would need more of a point on the trailing edge of his anal fin and shorter rays on the leading edge of his anal fin.
http://www.hollandbettashow.com/bettas4all-standard/

His pectoral ee fins look nice: They're big and rounded with an even edge
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=344058

Captain Hook is a very handsome guy. He looks so spunky and fun too! Thanks for letting me evaluate him!


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## sharkettelaw1

betta boy, if you read the title it clearly states he/she wants an opinion on their fish. Even if the fish isn't show quality, it doesn't mean he isn't entitled to know its pros and cons. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I thought your response was quite rude. Some people might want their fish to be critiqued for the purposes of breeding good quality fish.


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## BettaBoy51

i was not being rude but this section is for Show Quality bettas. even if s/he was going to breed it hes not good breeding stock. petstore fish are not good for breeding unless you plan on going for color and plan on working for years on fixing the line.and if she wanted him to be critiqued for breeding that goes in the breeding betta fish section.there are section on this website for a reason. the OP is new so i was not trying to be rude i was just telling her where s/he would get better response if s/he put it in the right place. so chill out.


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## sharkettelaw1

you're missing the point completely, betta boy. This thread isn't only for show bettas, but for people getting their bettas critiqued for the purposes of breeding good quality stock. This person was asking for their betta to be critiqued for curiosity sake, and they posted it in the right section. You were just plain RUDE, whether you meant to be or not. And for the record, some breeders started their good quality lines from pet store bettas, its not like they had much of another choice back in the 1960's.


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## lilnaugrim

+1 to shark. Any one can have a Betta critiqued here, it doesn't have to be "show worthy" at all.

Just some notes for you Levian:

Plakat means short finned so you don't need to reiterate that ^_^ So it'd be abbreviated as HMPKEE

For faults:
His peduncle is weak, it shouldn't curve upwards like that to hold his tail up (peduncle is the end part of the body where it meets the caudal [tail]).
Caudal and Dorsal are small compared to body and anal fin
Scales are bad, there shouldn't be holes near the dorsal there where you can see red.
Anal fin should come to more of a point at the end of it.
Ventrals look forked

Good things on him:
Caudal is evenly branched at 4 rays
Dorsal overlaps Caudal
Ventral does match up with anal fin length though, that's a good thing at least.
Pectorals look appropriately sized (should be at least 1/3 of the body length)

So color could be worked on with him, sharper anal fin, and slightly larger fins. He seems young so he may still grow into them but that comes with time.


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## Romad

I don't understand why anyone would get truly upset about someone posting a pic. of their betta for critique here :dunno: Having said that, there are times when posts and threads are obviously in the wrong section - usually in error.

Leviandolivia if you would like me to move this thread to betta pictures, I can certainly do that for you but your posts are fine here in my humble opinion. He is a beauty!


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## kevinap2

If this is true, then you guys may want to have a discussion with all of the moderators/forum staff about the usefulness of the sticky in this section of the forums. Link: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=124114

I have seen people get quite upset, to the point of belligerent, toward people (even new members) for posting pictures of fish in this section that are not show quality fish.


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## hrutan

I agree to a point.

Most of what I have seen with the hostility has to do with the complete failure to properly present a fish for critique, or posting blatantly pet-quality fish with the apparent intent to show off the cute new pet, rather than to get a critique of what's wrong with the form and how to fix it - something that definitely belongs in the "pictures" section. It appears that many people a) don't read the sticky, and b) think the "Show Bettas" thread means "Show me your betta."

Although, hostility has no place here, no matter how "fail" the original post that provoked it. Diplomacy is the way to go. A kind steer in the right direction fixes the problem without scaring people away...most of the time.

The sticky does annoy me though, because every now and then you do find a high quality betta at a pet shop. Prejudice ... humph!


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## Basement Bettas

I agree that fish does not belong in this section. There is a standard for fish just like for dogs or any other animal shown. You don't take your pet poodle to Westminster and you don't present a poor quality fish with crappy photos here. If you are new it would be wise to read the sticky and maybe a few other posts before just posting.

The fish was presented poorly and ripping him apart teaches no one what one needs to have in a fish to be shown or breeder quality. The sticky is quite clear the purpose of this section. There are other sections for that fish and enough people could have give their opinions there. 

This fish has a bad topline. The anal is not sloped enough and is also uneven. The vents are short and thick.. not at all like a knife. The color is poor and the dorsal needs longer first rays. Branched only to 4 he should have more the trad shape in his body and fins. The outline of the tail is also uneven. The fish lacks balance and with the crook in the spine he would be destroyed by most breeding to the standards and showing. No fish showing a skeletal defect should ever be presented and asked if show quality. That trait alone makes the fish worthless as a show/breeder type.

Yes.. you can find a decent fish in a pet shop.. but if the fish was really worth more than twelve cents to the breeder he would have been photographed and put on AB. The expectation in this section is good presentation of quality fish for evaluation against the standards. This thread needs moved.


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## TitanBetta

I may still be fairly new here but I can tell you RIGHT NOW that @Basement Bettas you were very rude and not just rude just down right mean in the way you ripped them apart. Haven't you ever stopped to think that a) oh maybe if I nicely help this person by pointing out pros/cons in their pet bettas I can help them down the line? and b) by helping this user by nicely finding faults in their pet you can HELP them in the long run when they DO go to Aquabid to find bettas they honestly wanna show. If you help them find faults now and point out the good that they should be looking for it can give them a better understanding of what to look for to fix any faults they do find in those Aquabid fish that are not all perfect.

Also, I checked out that sticky and that person was banned so honestly.. that doesn't bode well for me. It strikes a nerve with me when people are rude and mean just for the sake of being rude or mean! About you last point as well about the decent pet store fish? Ever stop to think that maybe the fish didn't show promise when the breed first shold them to the shop? Maybe that mediocure pet shop fish has a lot of promise once it gets older and is actually full grown. Diamon in the rough? Don't judge a book by its cover? Ever heard of those sayings?


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## sharkettelaw1

Basement bettas, if breeders didnt sell good quality fish, then explain why the hell my BREEDER males are high quality? They are PET STORE fish, with show quality features just by the way.


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## Crossroads

My two sense, if there's going to be so much controversy over whether or not a pet store betta can be critiqued whether it be to show off a new fish or as a learning experience for someone who would care to use pet quality fish as a learning experience, there should be subthreads. One for Learning and one for true show fish. Because Im not sure if any of you have tried to get a critique in betta pictures but, its a lot harder to get a straight answer. Breeders are there to better the breed and how are they going to do that if they keep discouraging new breeders? These people need to learn before they spend $60+ on a breeding pair that may A. Rip each other apart due to the breeders inexperience, B. Prove unworthy (I have seen some wonky AB fish that I'd never even throw a second glance at in a petstore for 5 bucks much less pay 60+ to get them to my door). Just some thoughts. I think people need to cool their britches a little and teach rather than spend the day arguing semantics. 

Also regarding show dogs, I've had plenty of "pet dogs" including a Miniature Schnauzer and a poodle that were show ring dogs. My dad's chow was granddaughter of a famous show chow and she had the conformation for it. So that's really not a good example.


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## smaugthefishy

Yeesh...I was going to post my little guy for the sake of learning (I'm very interested in showing in the future) but now I probably won't unless there's a sub-thread of some sort I'm unaware of.


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## hrutan

Don't let the grumps get you down. No matter what forum or socialization area, there's always going to be one or two...


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## RussellTheShihTzu

As someone who has shown dogs I can tell you that "pet" quality dogs are often brought into the show ring. Now, the pet quaity don't get into Westminster because a dog must be a breed champion to enter (except in the Bred-By Class).

I've seen these new people come in the ring with huge chain collars and those funky chain leads. The owners wearing jeans with holes in them and a deer-in-the-headlights expression.

What did 99% of the judges do? They took those people aside after the class was judged and gently told them before they showed their dogs again they should:

1. Go to several shows and just watch to see how their breed was presented so they don't teach their dog bad habits;
2. Learn how to dress for the ring so they don't distract from their dog's beauty;
3. Learn ring etiquette;
4. Obtain a copy of their breed's AKC standard and tape if available;
5. Join the closest All-Breed and Specialty Clubs and take handling classes if offered;
6. Come back next year and show him/her how much they've learned.

The other 1%, thank gawd, were judges who were seldom asked to judge or had been breeding, showing, judging for a long time and were tired and on their way out, anyhow. I actually know of a judge who was rude to a new exhibitor who was put on report and watched very carefully. The AKC does not put up with rudeness to exhibitors if it is reported.

The kicker on this section reads: "Taking betta fish to the next level." Well, what the heck is "the next level" if it isn't breeding/showing? And stickies? You're living in a fool's world if you think people read stickies before they post.

You can evaluate or not; it's your choice. Just remember the very first rule of this forum:

1) "Be nice. If you can't be nice, be civil. If you can't be civil, please don't post.
Even if you disagree with another member, you can express your opinion in a way that won't cause hard feelings. Please do so. 

"If somebody doesn't follow this rule and is mean or insulting, please do not reply similarly, because that will only make matters worse. Instead, please report the post(s) in question and allow the Betta Fish Team to address the issue."

Of course, I'm presupposing everyone has read the rules just as so many others presuppose everyone reads the stickies. ;-)


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## Overprotective Fish Lover

+1 Russel. Deep breaths everyone.


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## DangerousAngel

Yeesh! So are you allowed to post pictures of your Bettas for critique even if they aren't up for show? I'm a little confused. I'd love to get some critique for my boy Oscar, but now I'm not too sure where to post it.

Also Captain Hook is so gorgeous!!


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## HTageant

He is a nice fish and all, but as others have said, he doesn't belong in this section.


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## Leviandolivia

I've already been told that this post doesn't belong here, thanks for telling me again  it's greatly appreciated


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## kevinap2

x2. Can we let this thread die? It's nearly 6 months old.


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## HTageant

kevinap2 said:


> x2. Can we let this thread die? It's nearly 6 months old.


sure, i didn't realize it was almost 6 mothes old.... i'm sorry


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