# What is it with breeding?



## ArcticBeauty14 (Jul 17, 2014)

Why does everyone breed bettas? I'm no expert, but it's a whole ton of work. Really. Like, do you just breed for fun? Do you know people who'll buy 50+ fish? What about bloodlines and stuff? Couldn't you get some really screwed up fish if you just throw two kinds together? 
I don't get it. It's so stupid. I love bettas, but really would you just breed a horse or a dog or cat for the fun of it? I mean, especially if theyre just random animals? 
'~'
I just....can't. Can't understand or even comprehend why you'd just randomely decide "Hey that's pretty let's breed it with my fish"
...
I'm out.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It depends, most of us do it for the fun but also for the hobby itself. Fish breeding is part of the hobby and sometimes you can get amazing results and others, yes, you can end up with deformed fish.

If a person wants to breed their fish then they need to research it first if they're going to be responsible, like you don't want to breed DTxDT because you're likely to get more than half the spawn very deformed. There are ways in keeping healthy fish. 

Also, breeding fish is a heck of a lot cheaper than breeding even cats and dogs. Generally you can find homes for the fish a lot easier too. The only "expensive" part in fish breeding if you play it right is your time to do the daily changes and feedings to keep your fry healthy.

I do it because I want to see a particular line keep going, I generally don't breed just random fish, I'd breed fish where I know mostly where they are coming from. As for those who just throw two pet store fish together and hope for the best? Those are the idiots--all offence intended to those who do it because it's not healthy for the fish in any way nor for the fry.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

suscribed!..ive kind of wondered the same thing, but i could see how its just a form of the fish keeping hobby.lol


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

stupid? Thats a mouthful. We dont call your hobbies stupid, so i'd appreciate you dont call mine stupid. Your post is EXTREMELY rude and offensive. You want to know why i breed bettas? To enable rude people like you to have one of these awesome little fish. Dont like it? Go buy other fish. I breed these fish because its relaxing, tranquilising, and because its VERY rewarding when it pays off. Just today, i got asked by a chain store to take over as their supplier for bettas, firstly because i breed them locally, secondly because im breeding the tail type thats in demand here, and thirdly because my lines are good quality. And guess what, i'll not only be making money from a "stupid" hobby, but im enjoying it at the same time. This is going to enable me to pay for my studies for a Ph.D.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

ArcticBeauty14 said:


> Why does everyone breed bettas? I'm no expert, but it's a whole ton of work. Really. Like, do you just breed for fun? Do you know people who'll buy 50+ fish? What about bloodlines and stuff? Couldn't you get some really screwed up fish if you just throw two kinds together?
> I don't get it. It's so stupid. I love bettas, but really would you just breed a horse or a dog or cat for the fun of it? I mean, especially if theyre just random animals?
> '~'
> I just....can't. Can't understand or even comprehend why you'd just randomely decide "Hey that's pretty let's breed it with my fish"
> ...


I understand where your coming from. It is a lot of work to do it well. It does help to have a way to sell your betta fry. Ive made contacts with several local stores which makes this much easier. The selection of breeder stock is certainly not just put these 2 pretty fish together. A lot of careful thought and research goes into the decisions. Most breeders do it because they love betta and it can be a very creative process. I love watching the teeny fry grow into beautiful fish. It is almost impossible to make money at breeding betta you have to have a passion for it or it will just be a big pain in the butt and end in failure.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My wild bettas live in male/female pairs so they will naturally spawn whenever conditions are right. I personally like the 'challenge' of raising fish from birth to maturity. Many of the species I keep are also rare in the hobby or endangered in the wild, so I like to think I am doing my part for the hobby by keeping these fish around. With bettas like mine, you want as many quality fish in the hands of breeders as you can get, otherwise it is very easy for that species to be lost. 

I don't breed on a whim. My wild bettas have to meet different criteria than a fancy splendens to be considered fit for breeding. I will not for example, have a fish in my breeding program that is a poor breeder or requires eggs artificially hatched. That seems to matter less for breeders of fancy splendens. 

I have always said I do not think anyone should breed bettas without a goal and a viable market in mind. Unfortunately, not everyone thinks the same way.


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## Imzadi7 (Aug 9, 2014)

Maybe people do it because it is a challenge? There is a lot more hands on with Bettas. With something like Oscars or Angelfish there isn't as much participation. For someone who really enjoys their fish and the hobby sometimes it's a way to keep from getting bored.


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

ArcticBeauty14 said:


> Why does everyone breed bettas? I'm no expert,


personally i think you should have stopped there...
i take it you're young, so i'd also agree that those who do not have the time, space, and finances to take on such a project should not breed.



ArcticBeauty14 said:


> but it's a whole ton of work.


yes, but as a breeder, there's nothing more satisfying than seeing hard work come to fruition.



ArcticBeauty14 said:


> Really. Like, do you just breed for fun?


yes. breeding bettas for me is a hobby. 



ArcticBeauty14 said:


> Do you know people who'll buy 50+ fish?


plenty of venues to do this--facebook, this forum, local petstores, and aquabid for instance. nobody is going to buy 50 fish at a time, but if you consistently provide high quality fish, finding people to buy them shouldnt be a problem.




ArcticBeauty14 said:


> What about bloodlines and stuff? Couldn't you get some really screwed up fish if you just throw two kinds together?
> I don't get it. It's so stupid.


just because you dont understand something, doesnt make it stupid. but you not understanding it and passing it off as stupid makes YOU ignorant. genetics is one of my fortes and i can do complex punnet squares and bell curve distributions like the back of my hand. i've worked on hundreds of experiments involving genomic sequences and understand how a single phenotype can be a synergistic result of multiple genes, as well as the odds of achieving that type. it's not stupid-- rather it's necessary if you want to increase the odds of achieving certain goals in your breeding. 



ArcticBeauty14 said:


> I love bettas, but really would you just breed a horse or a dog or cat for the fun of it? I mean, especially if theyre just random animals? '~'


the horse/dog/cat analogy i'll leave to lilnaugrim's explanation, but breeding bettas should be anything BUT random. there should always be a goal or direction to work towards when starting a project. 



ArcticBeauty14 said:


> I just....can't. Can't understand or even comprehend why you'd just randomely decide "Hey that's pretty let's breed it with my fish"
> ...
> I'm out.


again, not random--it shouldnt be random, that's irresponsible. next time, instead of blasting and making assumptions about breeders or those interested in breeding, asking questions to understand a breeder's perspective is much more positive and encouraging to everyone. another plus is that no one would end up feeling disrespected.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

+1 to amphirion. I agree fully.


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## spaceyJC (Aug 9, 2014)

I totally agree with amphirion.
http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=117369


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## farmgirl82 (Jul 30, 2014)

Im not a breeder so im commenting as an onlooker but I think articbeauty14 was referring to irresponsible breeders who post that they put their fish together because they think their pretty & now they don't know how to take care of the spawn, they have no live food or a large enough tank etc... I really dont believe she was referring to hobby/pro breeders who have done their research & ate genuinely breeding to better a bloodline, create a clor/pattern/tail type or produce show quality bettas etc etc... 
Unfortunately you see irresponsible breeders of all animals. They justify it by saying kittens/puppies are cute, or they want to sell puppies/horses etc. I worked in cat rescue for years & people would actually say they let their cat keep having kittens because it made their cat happy or they believed spaying her would cause cancer & all kinds of other excuses. I also have worked in the horse industry my whole life & see the same thing happen there. There are good breeders who have pedigreed horses & breed for performance, temperament & trainability & there are breeders that breed quantity not quality (very common with racehorse breeders) or back yard people who think it will be "neat" to have a baby horse & have no idea what to do when that foal is sick & costs thousands of dollars to cure. I've seen it all too often & the animals are always the ones that suffer.


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## Crossroads (Jun 28, 2014)

I don't entirely agree with the throwing two pet store fish together statement. Now, hear me out on this. 
Say a young and/or first-time breeder is trying to learn how. Done their research and knows they will end up with pet quality fish. They go in knowing they could very well lose the spawn, even despite their research and despite everything, they take on the challenge. A first-timer without much confidence may feel more comfortable working with less expensive parents. They select the parents for the best traits they can find with the goal of learning.
For me, it'd be less devastating to lose the spawn of say two pet store fish with good form than two fish that could very well be that person's dream fish and produce high quality show-worthy fish.

I do agree throwing fish together without research or regard is not intelligent or beneficial.

I know even if I had watched all the breeding videos, read everything I could and did all my research I still wouldn't be confident until I had successfully raised a spawn.
I think many people see breeding as the next level of the hobby. For them, breeding and raising bettas brings a sense of pride and enjoyment that just watching your fish swim around can't bring. Seeing a beautiful betta, with great form and colors and knowing that you were the one that selected the traits to bring that particular betta into the world seems like it'd bring a great sense of pride.

I myself want to get into breeding. It interests me greatly, but I know that until I get my new job and get my finances and life in order that I won't touch breeding. I have neither the space, motivation, nor time to raise a spawn and do daily water changes. I know I haven't done my research. I know I'm not ready.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Indeed, it is a lot of hard work, and with that it comes with a lot of responsibility. People in the fish hobby breed either because they enjoy breeding their little "nuggets", or just do it because it's a challenge. I bred my fish because I enjoy a new challenge and I just love fish !!! In the end it's defeniatley worth the experience if you have the time money and patience


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

farmgirl82 said:


> Im not a breeder so im commenting as an onlooker but I think articbeauty14 was referring to irresponsible breeders.


In the original post, ArcticBeauty14 does ask why 'everyone' breeds bettas. So I am assuming he/she is talking about not just the irresponsible breeders, but the responsible ones as well.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Agreed, little


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

That felt like a post that was intended to start a fight. The decision to post something with that kind of wording was questionable, and I'm moderately impressed with how most of the responses were quite polite, given the provocation. Still, the lack of a reply from the OP tells me something:


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

Crossroads said:


> For me, it'd be less devastating to lose the spawn of say two pet store fish with good form than two fish that could very well be that person's dream fish and produce high quality show-worthy fish.


excellent point. i was going to touch base with that issue, but you did a great job explaining that.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

This is pretty well answered, I just want to put my input here... Most people who call themselves breeders, breed the correct way. Take dogs, one of the random animals you listed. Reputable canine breeders are reputable because they breed for the better of the breed. They test their breeder animals and their pups for any and all possible genetic defects. People wonder why puppies from a legitimate breeder are so expensive and this is why. They are not allowed to breed dogs with genetic defects, such as hip dysplasia. It is actually considered inhumane for the future generations of puppies. 

Backyard breeders can be full of bad genetics. This is why it is important that you should only breed from animals you can get a background with. Which is why if you plan to breed, you do all of your research and you should get your stock from a reputable breeder. I know that most of the people who breed their bettas do all of this, and have very beautiful lines. 
You can still get beautiful lines from pet store fish, don't get me wrong. But still, those fish are usually double checked and usually have great form.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

I admit, I hope to breed my fish in the future, but it's kind of because I think of them as my family. They're my children and I want to have grandchildren. I'm not going to breed willy-nilly though, I'm going to have a goal, use only healthy fish, and be very picky about the "wives" I get for my boys. I'm gonna put a lot of planning into it and have homes for my babies in advance.

Another reason that kind of want this, on a personal note, (squeamish beware) is because even though I'm only 19 I know that I'm most likely Not able to have children. None of my aunts could and my mom was barely able to have me, when i was born (I was a miscarriage that lived btw, she was almost 8 months prego) I had complications with my reproductive areas. So my fish are my kids, I want them to have that parental joy that I probably can't have, and I want to live it through them.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

So you want the domestic betta to go extinct in one generation? 
Anyway Amphiron pretty much gave the best answer as to why we breed. Theres nothing more rewarding then seeing your spawn grow out and surpass their parents in quality. 
In the fish keeping hobby breeding your fish is a completely normal and common thing, no matter what the species. Much better than taking fish out of the wild.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well some of us have to have fish taken from the wild (I actually prefer my foundation breeding pairs to be wild-caught), but I know what you mean Trilobite :mrgreen:

The OP might not be a troll. Some people have very strong views on breeding that can come across as trolling when they are actually being sincere.


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## JelloBetta (Aug 29, 2013)

Hard work pays off, and since your no expert breeder your probably better off not posting a offensive thread like this. It's not just for the fun of it, it's not abuse either. It's breeding, something they would do in the wild. So what, maybe we put beautiful fish together but it's not for the cash. It's for improving the species, helping the population grow.

You are looking at breeding the wrong way.


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## farmgirl82 (Jul 30, 2014)

+1 lucillia


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## Rosewynn (Apr 9, 2013)

OP...

I don't think the problem so much is asking the question. However, the way you worded it was quite rude to ALL breeders. If you want to get a constructive conversation it's best to be respectful to those with who you want to understand.

If you meant to just piss everyone off just ignore me. 

Just my .02.


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## ArcticBeauty14 (Jul 17, 2014)

I've read all your replies, took it in, thought, and I will say this: 
Ahahahahaha, wow, did not expect that.
I don't know how to reply. I was not intending for people to get pissed off, and start hammering. Nor did I intend to offend the people who've done their research and know what they're doing.
I see so many people breeding their fish. And it makes me wonder if they know what they're getting into. 
Not that I would know. I've never bred fish, and never plan too. I'll never breed any animal. 
I'm referring to the people who simply pick two fish and decide to breed.


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## ArcticBeauty14 (Jul 17, 2014)

Sorry that I come off rude. Sorry that some people have different opinions then yours, and I'm truly sorry that I think breeding like a mad man for fun is unacceptable. If you breed, then do it for the right reason.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Just keep in mind on this forum that everyone, has their own opinion and you should think b4 posting, unless you already did. I forgive you, I hope you dont have any hard feelings towards me :/


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I stayed quiet because everything I would have said was taken care of by others (especially Lucilla and amphirion). I honestly never thought you were a troll, just based on the fact that you aren't a brand new member and I've seen you around before. 

The reason behind the strong reaction is the fact they your original post was so strongly worded and there was absolutely no way of telling that you were "referring to the people who simply pick two fish and decide to breed". There are a lot of people on here with years and years of experience breeding and keeping bettas, and I can see how these responsible breeders could take offense. 

No good breeder is "breeding like a mad man for fun". No good breeder is "just breeding for fun". No good breeder is "just throwing two kinds [of betta] together". Every good breeder has done their research and knows what they are doing, to advance the species and produce better looking, healthier fish.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

+1 MattsBettas!

I don't think there are nearly as many people breeding as you think. Those of us who do are just rather chatty, so you see us a bunch. If you look, we've often discourage people who seem to think it's lolerskates easy and just for fun, by presenting them with reality. There are a lot of threads that contain posts about ethical breeding practices and why breeding without purpose or goal is dangerous and cruel to the fish, along with information about the mountain of work that a spawn is going to entail to be successful.

It would be good to read your posts before hitting submit, especially if you feel hot under the collar. There have been times I've erased and rewritten a few times, myself...people can't hear vocal tones or read body language through text. This is a hobby, a pass-time, an escape, and an art; there's no reason to be unkind.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey folks keep it civil here or I'll have to close this thread down. The OP made an unfortunate choice of words in the first post but it wasn't directed at anyone in particular as they explained in a later post.

Sometimes it's not easy to understand what someone is trying to convey in their thoughts when you're reading it in type instead of having a face to face conversation.

Posts that truly are directed at other members in a hurtful way will be removed. Let this stand as a general warning about playing nice in the fish tank. 

Thanks,
Romad


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Thank you Romad!


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

It is a lot of work and Money. I am not going to do it again. If I lived in Florida or Hawaii I would breed but living in Tahoe it is just stupid. 

You find homes for the bettas pretty easy thats not the hard part as long as you know how to ship fish. 

I bred because I wanted to see if I could pick a pair that would give me show quality fish I wanted to breed show quality fish that are not your normal pet store betta. I spend lots of money on getting the right pair both imported from Thailand and both from different breeders. I don't like to inbreed. My fish are pretty darn healthy for fancy Plakat bettas I must say. I did not get many show quality fish but it was fun. I found homes for 90% of the fish and kept the rest. 

Breeding fish is fun. It's fun to try it once as long as you know how to find the fish homes and are breeding healthy good quality fish. 

Yes in the end WHY did I do it. I ask myself the same thing. In the end of the day I learned a lot about raising fry, shipping fish, and selling fish. I learned about genetics too. It was a learning experience and I am happy I gave it a try. I will not do it again anytime soon that's for sure. 

Yes people breed other animals for fun. The fun is Genetics and playing god. Where do you think all these dog breeds came from? They all are here because people thought it was fun to breed different kinds of dogs.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

It's been awhile since I've seen you on here Snowflake!!! Welcome back!


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## BlackDevil (Oct 1, 2014)

ArcticBeauty14 said:


> I've read all your replies, took it in, thought, and I will say this:
> Ahahahahaha, wow, did not expect that.
> I don't know how to reply. I was not intending for people to get pissed off, and start hammering. Nor did I intend to offend the people who've done their research and know what they're doing.
> I see so many people breeding their fish. And it makes me wonder if they know what they're getting into.
> ...


But you are insulting people even now. 

As such, I am curious. 

You are against people picking two fish, throwing them together and hoping for the best. 

How exactly do you think some of the odd & rather exotic betta fish, guppy fish, ANY fish breed, horse breeds, dog breeds, cat breeds, bird breeds, rodent color morphs, snake color morphs, etc., etc., came to be. 

*A LOT of trial and error. *


If pairing A + B doesn't work out but is close, well then maybe A + C will 


If animals weren't thrown together sometime in the past [or present] then a LOT of "breeds" that are so popular - dogs, cats - wouldn't exist. Nor would there be anywhere near the amount of color combinations for bettas, guppies, etc. 


Sorry, if that's rude, but really. Come on. 


It's stagnant thoughts like that why a lot of modern dog breeds are becoming ruined cause no one wants to cross breed A with breed B to get rid of breed B's serious health issues [and yeah, if you have a proper breeding plan & kennel club approval you can do that - look to the bobtail boxers or the once nearly extinct chinook]. 


But going back to Bettas. 


I'm someone that started breeding bettas with $3-5 dollar petstore fish for one simple reason - I thought it absolutely insane to spend $20+ on a fish over the internet that may never breed when I had never tried this breed beforehand [I've bred guppies, cichlids, etc. but at the time, no bettas]. 


I bred fish A [a red VT male] with fish B [green, potential CT female]. 

Did I put thought into the crossings? No, not really. Was I looking for the best in show. Nope. Did I research the fish & their background. Well I'm not a genetic researcher nor a mind reading fish guru, so can't say I did. Did I care... not for one second. 

Did I do it for fun, heck yes. 


Why? Because I was experimenting. 


Besides, there was absolutely nothing more exciting than watching the rainbow, for lack of a better word, of colors that appeared with the first spawn. I had greens, reds, blues [steel & royal], multi colors, a white even to name those I remember. 


In 28 months I went from VTs by majority to plakat / deltatail CTs thanks to a splurge $20 storebought turquoise HMCT male & a couple of nice half-moons that I actually sold via aquabid [cheap cause I did advertise, silly kid I was, they wre from store bought stock]. I was absolutely jumping to see my fish turn from average store bought fish into my own "line" until I had to pack up & sell cause of a move. 


That's half the fun, I suppose, of people "throwing fish together". Breeding look a like to look a like ... or sibling to sibling... unless your competing in a major betta show ring [such as with guppy bloodlines] would be boring after a while cause all you're going to get is blue fish, blue fish, blue fish, blue fish, blue fish... blue fish x a couple hundred. 


Breeding same fish to same fish - or randomly breeding fish together - means nothing in my mind as long as you're 
a) having fun
b) prepared for the result
c) prepare for the worst [disease, etc.]
d) have the ability to cull sickly / deformed without getting too attached
e) have places to sell / give the resulting unwanted fish 
f) have a goal in mind

_Notice how goal is at the bottom_ For other people it's different, goal will be at the top, but they're doubtlessly having fun regardless. 


More important is *how* you breed them. Culling the sickly / deformed, making sure you have places to sell / give fish to before breeding, etc... marks a responsible breeder in my mind. 


But then, everyone has a preference, and everyone is entitled to their own thoughts. 


If I breed random fish together, I'm not going to start bullying John Doe cause he keeps breeding red fish to red fish.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

^+1


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## hestersu (Sep 28, 2014)

+1 to amphirion. Everything is right on point. I'm will never be a Betta breeder but I have been a dog and horse breeder. There is so much work that goes into the process before you ever breed your pair. At least with the dogs, I had good odds that I would have a successful breeding. With the horses, more often it ended up in failure for reasons totally beyond my control. But when it was successful - it was fantastic to see the result of so much hard work to get a single foal.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

snowflake311 said:


> Where do you think all these dog breeds came from? They all are here because people thought it was fun to breed different kinds of dogs.


Not to argue but to set the record straight: Except for today's "designer" mutts, breeds were developed for a purpose and people combined breeds with that in mind; not for fun. If you look at the history of any established breed you will see that.

Breeding any animal to improve it (as Snowflake311 stated she did with her Bettas) is a good reason to breed. Breeding to satisfy a market or just for fun, IMO, is not unless one is also striving to improve whatever one is breeding. And throwing together two individuals without knowing the good and bad in either or just because one can is indefensible.

Now ask me what I really think. ;-)


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## BlackDevil (Oct 1, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Not to argue but to set the record straight: Except for today's "designer" mutts, breeds were developed for a purpose and people combined breeds with that in mind; not for fun. If you look at the history of any established breed you will see that.
> 
> Breeding any animal to improve it (as Snowflake311 stated she did with her Bettas) is a good reason to breed. Breeding to satisfy a market or just for fun, IMO, is not unless one is also striving to improve whatever one is breeding. And throwing together two individuals without knowing the good and bad in either or just because one can is indefensible.
> 
> Now ask me what I really think. ;-)


Russell yes that maybe so for the average breed. 

1) Chinooks are still a dog breed, because at one point there was only 5 to 10 living animals, that is still crossed into other dogs to increase the gene pool. 

2) Bobtail boxers, only done in the late 1990s, was a corgi x boxer mix [which is now showable in the UK and other European countries, it's just the USA that's got the hangup I believe] that in 7 generation was considered *pure*. It was done in response to the banning of docking tails. 

3) The Dalmatian / Pointer cross is now finally, acknowledged as a showable breed. That dog is a bit older - 1987 I think - and was bred to decrease the case of urinal stones if I remember correctly in Dalmatians. 

4) Some lines of GSDs are being bred back into Belgian Shepherds to get rid of that ugly roachback - which has generally rendered the breed useless in everything but showing. 


And in all actuality, a lot of the popular breeds are less than 100 years old. 


As for the designer "mutts" the labradoodle was designed for a purpose. Originally. Unfortunately that purpose has long since become meaningless in the face of people making quick money... even the original breeder says he's ashamed of what has become of the breed. 

Ps. Not to rub anyone the wrong way, but today's GSD would be considered subpar back in the 50s due to the fact that the average dog has considerable roachback. The 40s-50s they looked remarkably like a Belgian Shepherd until some silly judge decided yes dogs that look like the hindquarters have been stomped on are prefect. 

The bulldog looked NOTHING like it does nowadays in the 1900s, all because some clown thought a pug x bulldog was a fantastic idea. 


And that was my point to bringing up dogs. People keep accepting the "standard" even when the standard gives rise to an animal that is either useless or suffers from a whole compliment of illnesses. 




Going back to bettas

Yes breeding to improve is never wrong. However, neither is experimenting. 

If no one experimented we'd have had the same what a few base colors and maybe 2 different tail types in the betta breed forever.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

To the above. Please note I wasn't responding to your post. I was responding to the assertion that today's breeds are here because people thought it was fun to breed different kinds of dogs. Also note no specific "designer" mutt was mentioned. Besides, breeding anything is in reality experimenting, is it not? If it weren't then we'd get 100% of that for which we bred.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Actually, the breeder of the labradoodle completely regrets it. He crossed two breeds hoping for a hypoallergenic dog, which he got. But he also recieved an animal with bad genetics, ie DJD. And of course people took it and ran. It's an adorable puppy. It's possible to get one without terrible genetics but that requires more money and who wants that?

The dal/pointer was an attempt to better the breed. The backcross puppies are eligible for AKC showing. 
As for issues in the breed, if you read my post, akc certified responsible breeders are required to test for things like DJD, hip dysplasia included. And only two facilities in the USA can do those tests. 
They are trying to correct the animal issues while they can within the breed. Once its too late for the breed, then they cross to save it. And imo, thats a great thing. As long as it is for the better of the animals. But I also believe that loving your pets is not enough. You need to know facts and information to help. Many people are too eager to jump in and that can cause all sorts of issues.


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## RedRunner (Oct 4, 2014)

I'll admit I opened this post thinking what about breeding. Some bizarre secret that has never broached the web about bettas. 

Imagine it being a rant about such a silly little thing as randomization. 


I find the posts above interesting, but rather focus to fish.


I agree with BlackDevil - without breeding randomly I doubt we'd have gotten anywhere near the level of colors & fin types in bettas as we do. The same could be said of guppies - if you look at wild guppies for example they are extremely drab compared to what is available for show. 

People have their own way of breeding.


You got the people that breed siblings or related animals [fish or dogs or anything else] together to improve upon a particular trait. 

About 3 years ago, for 2 years I bred guppies. Moscow Greens. They came from a high quality show line and it seemed an insult to randomly breed them & ruin some else's extremely hard work. 

It's harder work close breeding as one sometimes get an increase in faults [either deformed bodies or low fertility]. 


Then you got people that randomize. 

Myself included.

Eventually I took some of those guppies and crossed to a blue grass from aquabid that caught my eye. The results were interesting. 

A bit of line breeding & the results weren't unlike this red Moscow. I'll see if I can find some of my old photos. 
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwguppies&1413191368


But essentially, randomization is needed otherwise one gets stagnant.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't think they're talking about the responsible breeders but literally the person who goes to the store, buys two VT's and throws them together just to see what happens, not thinking about feeding the fry or taking care of them at all.

There is a huge difference between someone responsible and someone who isn't, clearly we are all responsible here to some degree's since we've taken the time to research and talk with others, those who less responsible or just not thinking about their fish in more than "it's just a fish, who cares", are the ones who aren't here.


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## ArcticBeauty14 (Jul 17, 2014)

BlackDevil said:


> But you are insulting people even now.
> 
> As such, I am curious.
> 
> ...


Oh, I know that's how animals have become. People pick two and breed. But there are a lot of deformities in animals these days. Dog breeders try to mate two dogs that have no recorded disease history and stuff. But with betta fish (I'll say it again, I didn't mean to insult people who know what they're doing) people who don't know what they're doing will literally just pick two fish and throw them together without thinking about the consequences. That's my problem.


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## Lergannn (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm breeding betta's because i am looking forward to watching what the fry come out as, and I've made a deal with Petco's in my area so they will take the fish once they're old enough to be sold. I want to experiment with it, and enjoy what i'm doing.


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## NTexasBetta14 (Oct 7, 2014)

I am a vet tech myself, and I have some inkling what I am doing. I started nine years ago with a petco male and a Walmart female. Before this I kept them as a hobby but never tried breeding. Everyone said it was impossible but I knew it wasn't and within six months I had turned out a batch of my own that included my locally infamous male, Deuce, a red pink marble VT who reached ungodly size. 

That said, some thought needs to be given about what you are doing, why, and how. You have legit questions. Are you prepared to care for 100+ fry to adulthood? 

Even the best of us mess up. Like this time when a friend whose staying with me during a rough patch, let her dratted cat in my kit her and spilled my infusoria. But I don't think we mean any harm and truthfully I paid nearly $80 for a pair of marbles, shipped from Thailand, only to find they would not breed. Ever. And my $50 melanoma male and his mate, they spawned sickly tiny fry that would not live. 

Random can be good. I bred my Royal VT to a Steel VT because they have decent for and good color. Lucky was a rescue to boot. 

But I wouldn't call it stupid. I prefer local homegrown betta myself.


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## NTexasBetta14 (Oct 7, 2014)

I should add my first brood also produced Twister, a deep beautiful green vt with a tail twisted like a figure eight. Never bred him and never bred Deuce because he refused to even make a nest. I never did breed Deuce's patents again because of Twister's deformed tail. He lived a normal healthy active life but it wasn't worth the risk.


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