# Future Breeding Pair?



## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I only went to a plaza today to get some new movies but I ended up being 2 new bettas at the LFS there . I love the little darlings oh so much and will post pictures if people would like to see. The female is a little bit of an annoyance though as she has already slipped through the divider and onto the male's side. Unfortunately, I can't seem to think of good names so I'm looking for any ideas?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Also, the male is a Crowntail and the female looks like either a combtail or a veiltail.


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## Cutar (Aug 3, 2010)

PB and J

Bonnie Clide

Sonny and Cher


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Those are all really nice names but i prefer original names. Thanks


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I'll post some pictures a little later. The quality of them wont be the best but please bare with me.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

well i am a camera freak i cant wait to get my own and i wantto see pics lol also some name suggestions for the male are DaVinci , Domenick , Eureka, Fantasma, Flow , Hirudoki , Hydra , or Hydro


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Pictures As Requested*

So first up is my new greyish/blue and red male that I got. Any ideas for names?

















Next up... my new greyish/blue and red female that I got. I also need ideas of names for her. 

















Also, can you let me know what you think of them as a breeding pair??? I'm pretty sure the male is a crowntail and the female looks to me like a combtail.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

They're beautiful pets, but personally I wouldn't breed them. The female is a possibly a combtail at best--I find it easier to see whether or not they're combtails by the ventrals, which she has tucked up in the picture. The fry wouldn't look as nice because the spread of the caudal would be narrower due to the VT influence, and the web reduction won't be as dramatic as a crowntail's should. 

Those would be reasons enough for me, but each fish alone wouldn't be what I would consider breeding material. They both have a lot of red wash, the red wash is very difficult to breed out and it's not something people want in a steel blue betta. The current trend is also for masked bettas rather than black faced. Personally, I think your fry would be very difficult to find homes for. If you do decide to breed them, you should probably remove the female before she releases all of her eggs so that the spawn size stays small. 

As pets though, I think they're beautiful. The male's face has a lot of personality to it and I love steel blues.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, I might breed them anyways because personally I love the red wash that is in the two of them. I think it gives them character  I also have friends who are willing to take some off of my hands as well as pet stores near me that are interested. Any ideas on names?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

beautiful pair!!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the tips and comments guys.
Just out of curiosity would anybody be interested in the fry that these two will have if I can get a successful spawn? 
Oh and I think I will be naming the female Trix because so far she has just been playing tricks with myself and the male on the other side of her devided tank. Still unsure about the male's name.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well I would possibly be but i really dont know yet ide like to see how the fry will turn out first. Also i wouldnt ask just yet i would at least ask after they embrace.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

yup, just thinking ahead and seeing if these two interest anybody or not. Hopefully I can successfully breed these two. I'm really excited about them.  I'll keep you guys updated on how their spawning is going once I get closer to breeding them.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

yea i guess thats okay anyway!!

Can you take more pics?

Sorry im a pictures fanatic, i would take pics all day if i had a camera!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

ya sure, I'll go down and take some pictures really soon.  Glad you like them.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree with Adastral. I'd maybe look for a different female.

I like Coco, or Koko for one, and... Kilo for the other?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I've taken some pictures for you guys! 
Also, I've decided to name the male Luka and the female Trix.
So first up is some new pics of Luka.

















and.... Trix!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

BettaLover101 said:


> ya sure, I'll go down and take some pictures really soon.  Glad you like them.


Yay!!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I'll gladly take pictures if you want them  If you want certain views of either of them just lemme know.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Who is the pair that you are going to breed because im confused.

*Update*: Okay never mind!!!

Also The female is a VT and he is a CT you shouldn't mix tail types. Well its not recommended.


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

The pictures are of the pair. I will be breeding Luka and Trix to eachother. If people are really interested in something new and different and that have regular VT then I might breed Trix to my red VT Houdini later on.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

ow does hudini look? is that him in your avatar?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

ya, one pic of him is my avatar and another is in him album on my user page. The only problem is i cant get him to flare so i dont know how good he would be at getting the female's attention. He would be a good dad though since he is really gentle.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well a betta flaring isnt all that bad. but once the female feels the males hormones she gets all ready!

So him not flaring is kind of an advantage. also once he sees her in the tank he will most likely change his personality and chase her or flare. but i think he is a "Im not even going to waste my time" kind of betta.

But thats how my betta is when i was trying to spawn without no knowledge


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Alrighty. Hopefully he perks up if I ever try to breed him.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

Have you done alot of research? Like what tail types to expect, etc?


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I couldn't actually find a whole lot on what tail types to expect from this pair. I found information on other tail types but none on a Combtail x Crown Tail cross. I figure that there is a very small possibility on getting any crown tails, a reasonable amount of combtails and maybe a few veil tails. Is that correct? With all the other information I need to know like Tank Set-Up, Breeding Procedure, and Care of Fry for later on. I have all the live foods, frozen foods, and freeze-dried foods that I need and am conditioning them for 2 weeks.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

I think you should find a better female, I think she will throw quite a few Veiltails, or Combtails but they won't be as defined as a true combtail.

I'd say 60% veiltails, 20% crowntails, 20% combtails.

Crowntails have 50% of their fins spiked, while combtails have less than 30%, preferably just the 20-10% tip. (This only applies with males) Realistically there are only two types of female bettas... veil, and crown. Unless their caudial fin is 180 degrees or more than 120 degrees, yours looks about 80-90.

With this pair I think a crowntail female would be best since your crowntail does have good finnage to spike ratio, but it doesnt compliment the female right. I think she's a good fish, but not breeder quality? I'd have to see more pics of her lol.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

That's not right at all, unfortunately. The veiltail trait is dominant and crowntail is partial dominant. 100% of the fry will be combtails, they will look like veils with a small amount of webbing reduction. 100% of the babies in both crossings will be multicolors. If you've been to a pet store lately, you probably noticed that most of the fish there are blue-red multicolors. If you want to breed something "different" what about trying to make masked steel blue crowns, or maybe platinum extended red males? You would probably have to purchase some more high quality fish to introduce these traits, but if what you're going for is something different, then why not actually go for it?

I don't think you should start breeding your fish until you have a greater understanding of how genetics play out--I highly suggest reading some of the articles here: 

http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/genetics.htm
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/home.imp


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

i agree! but, i am thinking of breeding a VT female with my new dragon male CT, i know it isnt right but i want to try it out. After all How do you think we got all the different combinations?

I like the idea of having a lot of combtails!! also i just want some really unique fry.

I know many of you will not approve it.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Well, bettalover, when people set out to make those new tails they probably had a goal in doing it. The makers of the deltas set out with the idea that they wanted more volume in the tail and selected only fish with the highest tail volume and best branching, crowntail breeders set out with the idea that they wanted the greatest amount of web reduction possible and chose only fish with some web reduction. I think it's important to experiment, but you should still have a goal in your mind before you start, otherwise you're just running with scissors and hoping for scherenschnitt.

You should at least use a similar female with some metallic--if you're going to be housing a lot of fry soon anyway, what difference does getting one more female make?


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

Sorry for the misinformation D: excellent links btw Adastra, I'd like to educate myself more on the breeding process and genetics. I love horse genetics as my mom breeds horses of different colors all the time professionally.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Adastra said:


> Well, bettalover, when people set out to make those new tails they probably had a goal in doing it. The makers of the deltas set out with the idea that they wanted more volume in the tail and selected only fish with the highest tail volume and best branching, crowntail breeders set out with the idea that they wanted the greatest amount of web reduction possible and chose only fish with some web reduction. I think it's important to experiment, but you should still have a goal in your mind before you start, otherwise you're just running with scissors and hoping for scherenschnitt.
> 
> You should at least use a similar female with some metallic--if you're going to be housing a lot of fry soon anyway, what difference does getting one more female make?




Thank you Adastra so much!! I will take that into consideration, but when people first discovered bettas they didnt know what the heck thy were and they thought they should study these fish and their natural behavior. When they got enough information they decided to breed them and they didnt know how the fry will come out to look nor did they have any standards (at that point). so My goal is to breed a VT with a CT and see what their offspring would be like, then when i see their offspring i will have a goal, and that will be to make a line of VT and CT and perfect it on the way down.

Does this sound Really stupid and ignorant?

Im sorry if i upset people with my actions but i still dont want to change my mind and i still want to try it out!

Adastra was this your goal; to talk me out of it?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

VT and CT will get you mostly combtails and a very nice looking fish IMO that once had a class in the IBC (not sure now)-once you breed two unknown fish you get to see what is hidden in their genetic make up and this IMO is part of the fun in breeding this species, with that said-you also need a plan for the fry-either giving them away or culling.....if you can't bring yourself to cull (kill) fry or fish you don't want to breed more than once...its a lot of work but it can be fun too and unless you plan to show or want to continue other breeders line...nothing wrong with starting off with cheap pet shop fish IMO...just know that you may have trouble getting rid of some and it involves culling a lot, especially if you want to create something unique that you call your very own....I say go for it.......

Even when the Betta doesn't look perfect (and we don't have a perfect Betta)-you never know what is hidden in them because breeders usually sell off the ones that don't make the cut and only keep the best for themselves to breed and so you may get lucky and get a Betta with great lines and not even know it until you see what they produce.......

Don't let people tell you that you can't or shouldn't...because they don't understand the drive behind a person that want to learn by doing it themselves....

Keep good record of the fish you breed, the offspring that you breed and a list of what traits found in the mystery fish.
Set your goal (and this can change) and work toward this and read everything you can with an open mind with the understanding that often it is the opinion or experience of a person and not an exact science....anything can happen and you will never know unless you try.....just be responsible about it and don't neglect the fish and let them die because you are too lazy to take proper care of them...when you cull make it fast.....


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice and opinions everybody. I am still going to breed them to see what the fry will be like and it think it'll be fun to see if I can make a new colour(if thats possible). I know that it isn't what everybody wants to hear but its my decision and I'm gonna stick with it. So... if you want to... wish me luck and if your interested in helping me to see what these fish hide in their genetics then I will be selling some of their babies(if they breed). 

I don't mean to sound snobby or mad but I want to do this and nobody is going to change my choice.
I'll upload some new pictures of the two of them soon since the female is floating in the male's tank.


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

There's been a 1000 before you who had the same train of thought. "i'm going to do it and see what happens, see what they create!" however you could learn a thing or two from them and create something they haven't.

I might be interested in a steel blue CT. If I don't find myself a mustard gas or a mask soon  good luck!


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

Well so far everything is going well with the breeding. He is starting to build a small bubble nest. Hopefully once they start spawning he will build a bigger nest. I will keep you updated on them and if they have fry then I will be posting pictures.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

BettaLover101 said:


> Thanks for all the advice and opinions everybody. I am still going to breed them to see what the fry will be like and it think it'll be fun to see if I can make a new colour(if thats possible). I know that it isn't what everybody wants to hear but its my decision and I'm gonna stick with it. So... if you want to... wish me luck and if your interested in helping me to see what these fish hide in their genetics then I will be selling some of their babies(if they breed).
> 
> I don't mean to sound snobby or mad but I want to do this and nobody is going to change my choice.
> I'll upload some new pictures of the two of them soon since the female is floating in the male's tank.


Good for you i feel the same way! Even though lots of you will not accept the fact, then its okay, but i want you all to know i am being very responsible and i am learning as i go. That doesnt mean i dont know how to breed it means i will learn other and more things that will help me even more and add on to my knowledge of breeding. So i know how to breed i have been doing months worth of research and still am learning. i will breed them though and i promise i will care for the fry the correct way!!


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## Phoxly (Jun 14, 2010)

If/When I breed, I'll probably wait til I get a pair worth breeding so I can expect good results, instead of shooting in the dark, but either way I enjoy the idea of people breeding bettas and getting the hobby out there, be sure to take LOTS OF PICS FOR PHOXLY ;D


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## BettaLover101 (Aug 20, 2010)

I will be sure to take lots and lots of pictures for you. 
If there is anything in particular that you want just let me know. I'm glad to take any.


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