# Someone thinks we breed "mutts" for money?



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

"I'm so confused as to why so many people want to breed betta. There are literally half a dozen betta breeding questions on here an hour. Betta aren't even worth breeding unless they're true to colour, meaning one solid colour that doesn't change in the light or a specific colour design and if they're anything but veiltails. There are so many people on here that say they went to a pet store and got their betta, betta from petstores are through and through mutts. Plus, the fry are really hard to feed. 

Unless you've gotten betta from a breeder that sold you a mating pair. It's just not worth it. A mating pair will be easy to breed cos they already know each other. Plus, you'll get $2 a pop for your pretty males when you can be making $50+ for every single fry that came from a mating pair. Some can even be worth $300-$5000."

was someone's reply to a person asking about betta breeding. Why do people think breeding bettas are for money? Personally, I just wanted to see if I could... so far... I can. Even if I couldn't at first, I would try until I could. I have people lined up for my batch, because they can see how I care for them, know they are cared for, and know what general cross their bettas are (halfmoon and crowntail)... just because my fish are mutts, doesn't make them worthless 

Who on here, breeds bettas for "300-5000" dollars? and who on here, breeds because: they can, they wanted to, learning experience, advancing in breeding ability...?


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

I am breeding because I love my fish, I love their looks and I want more of them. Yes I will be selling the fry, but that is because I want them to go to homes not rot in a pet store cup. I will sell to my LFS because they do daily water changes and care for their bettas.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Amph I love your answer  Yeah that person burned me right up... My fish, are not mutts. They are fish. Just because my DOG happens to be a beagle basset (heh heh baggle...) doesn't make her a mutt, makes her...unique. I wouldn't want some designer teacup dog that'll die on me any year  so why would I buy a fish for 100$ or more, to maybe have her killed by a male? or vice versa?  lol


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks Sena. Exactly, in my opinion "mutts" are always better. You get more personality and love from those who you love. Oh look my 1000 dollar betta is swimming, how pretty....wait he may strain a fin I can't let him do that. 
Oh look my beautiful 2 dollar boy is swimming great, maybe I should feed him and take pictures. He loves to dance for me XD

Anyway, yeah as I said I breed because I love my boys. Yes I will make a couple bucks off of it so what it helps support the addiction and helps to buy more mistreated bettas to give them a loving home.


----------



## sjbettas (Aug 31, 2011)

nah not all bettas from pet stores are mutts 
if u know what u want to get at the end i say go for it


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

bahahaha at the comparison.... XDDDDD yes, mustn't let that expensive fish strain his poor fin. Must medicate the heck out of him so he stays in the utmost perfect condition...

My Spartan survived a mystery poisoning leaking from a tank's walls. Guess what... bet you a "breeder's perfect betta" would have died in seconds. He survived, with only the edges of his gills blackened but NO side effects, plus he chose Madame as his spawn buddy... What special fish does that? surely the more-expensive-than-you-can-afford fish are chosen for... I let mine choose for themselves 

and "mutt" is such a stupid word lol. Everything nowadays is a mutt... people, dogs, cats, fish... doesn't matter anymore to anyone who uses that word lol


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

haha sjbettas... I stood there for half an hour, looking at the pet store bettas, because I wanted them to choose me  then I got Dusk Falls and Crayola Colors lol. However the only betta I did not have choose me was Admiral, but he needed me so I felt bad and got him.

I bred my bettas to show that the "1 month conditioning" did not matter... I used complete natural stuff for them. right down to letting nature do it's things  And Spartan is a dad!!! lol. I have people lined up for my bettas, because they know me  and know about how my fish are lol.


----------



## sjbettas (Aug 31, 2011)

now its easy to find a ok quality betta in petstores. for me might as well breed the fish with a plan.... like an artist. u can mix colors and make the fins look pretty. b a artist my friends


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

sjbettas, you got a point  Yeah, my betta pair chose each other... it was cute ^^ my female is a ebony black crowntail cross with mettalic blue specks on her back and fins, the male is a halfmoon cross with: orange, peach, pink, light purple, black, dark navy blue... lol. Whatever fry comes out of THAT pair is definitely the Spartan Generation


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Here I am going to pic spam you all for a minute to show you what I have found in petstores, these guys are beyond decent IMO got him at my LFS
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78773

These next two are of my DTHM boy Thoth he was a Petsmart boy and will be the first one I am breeding (while I hunt for the perfect girl for Poppycock)
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78315
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=806217#post806217

The next is of a walmart boy I have to get. He had bad curlfin but just called out to me
Meet Curly Joe
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78759
Now look at him he has become stunning
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=72545&page=1333

last is my little girl I got just the other day from my LFS she is going to be bred to Thoth
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=811652&highlight=Thoth#post811652

They adore each other he shows off for her and she just stares and wiggles.

Now you can not tell me that these boys are not stunning and almost surprisingly petstore boys. So I challange anyone who says petstore bettas are not as gorgeous as those expensive breeder buys


----------



## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

I have people on here constantly telling me how beautiful my fish are and where on earth did i find them? i have 21 bettas, 7 are breeder bought the rest are petstore boys and i prefer the petstore boys. 

Out of ALL my animals EVER ive had 2 purebred animals one pb doberman and on pb poodle. give me a x bred any day lol


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

For me, one of the reasons I enjoy breeding bettas because of the variety you get in the offspring. (not like breeding neons where they all look the same). If I see a fish with good form, finnage and colour I will breed it, if its from a petshop or not.
Plus in NZ we dont have much variety or many breeders so we must work with what we can find.

If we never crossed betta colours and tails we would never have the vast variety of colours we have today.
The first dragon was a mutt between a red betta, a copper betta and a betta mahachai. not only colour mutts but also hybrids *gasp!*

I found a dragon VT who reaches 180 in full flare in a pet store and I'm not going to hesitate breeding him.


----------



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

My two cents-

1. There will unfortunately be snobs, anywhere and everything, about any niche.

2. I imagine that from their perspective, sometimes, if they are breeding for a certain line or something, and see casual breeders out there, they might consider this mucking up their gene pool. I can see that point, but this doesn't seem to be what this person is saying, and there are millions of betta in the world, it's an unnecessary worry. 

I could also see IBC and hardcore breeders being concerned if casual or "mutt" breeders were being dishonest about who/what went into their fry though. That wouldn't be ok, because some people want a certain tail type or color only, and they should definitely know what's going into their fish if they're using their hard earned dollar. Breeding for fun and selling locally or to other betta lovers is one thing, intentionally being dishonest and/or screwing with people trying to preserve lines is another entirely!


----------



## sjbettas (Aug 31, 2011)

i dont really believe in breeders. when i use to breed i buy from them to get a certain traits or gene or to cross out too. u cant really mentain a line for so long cuz after the 4th or 5th generation in inbreeding your fish would b short bodies or deformed. so u gotta cross out to mentain your lines
im starting to breed again though cuz i wanna breed the 1st true line of dragon cts
its a shot in the dark how to make a dragon ct. this is my 1st step http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=79660
i might b wrong though it might b a super red and make the scaling heavy. or just cross out to a tradition dragon pk and work on the fins. you can do whatever thats the fun of breeding for me


----------



## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

well whoever said that i have a bone to pick with them. i love petstore bettas! they have the most personality. those really expensive fish are kind of weak and even though they are gorgeous and i love bettas, no one should pay 300 to 500 for any betta. that is ridiculous. unless it poops gold and it's fins have the mona lisa painted on them. and the first day i decided i wanted to breed bettas was the day i also decided i would breed petstore bettas and glorify them. also i want to add, not all petstore bettas are veiltails.


----------



## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> My two cents-
> 
> 1. There will unfortunately be snobs, anywhere and everything, about any niche.
> 
> ...



Green tea this is an excellent post. I used to breed dogs and I woke up to hate mail everyday not to mention the crazies that would show up to my house and scream at me from outside the door.
I noticed pretty quickly that the same kind of people are also in the Betta scene. Most of these people are uneducated and are "following the leader". They see someone else say breeding Betta's is bad and they jump on that bandwagon. For that reason alone I ignore them. Most of them have no idea what they are saying or why they are even saying it. Humans are pack animals and therefore will "gang up" on certain issues. PETA is a perfect example of follow the leader. People THINK PETA is great and instead of doing any research on the subject they jump on the bandwagon and support PETA. Blind ignorance is another word for it. 

My advice is to do what you want. There is nothing wrong with breeding Betta's I don't care what the hippies say about it. People just like to judge others and get into other people's business. As long as you do not abuse your animals and you do good by them, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Learn to stop caring what others think about you and everything else will fall into place, because you cant please everyone and there is no point in even trying.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

BAHAHAHA poops gold and has mona lisa on the fins....

I can personally say to people, 
"hey, the father is this guy here -shows to them the betta- I THINK he is a half moon cross, he has diverse colors, plus he has a strong immune system - which he could be passing onto his young! and look here, is the mum, a lovely crowntail cross... a real gentle giant female at 2.5 inches. that mettalic blue - would be incredible to see on some males hey?" 

This way I do not get just oranges  I can get...black, blue, orange, red, yellow, brown, white, grey... anything and everything  except I do not think either of them hold the gene for green >< but if there is a green one DIBS!!! lol.

But yeah, I would breed only healthy bettas - and my Spartan is 2.5, and I say he did awesome on the nest and spawning... squeezed her 5 times, then left her alone. His gentleness, her gentleness, his survival of poison, and the colors... I cannot wait for my NON mutt fry xD crowntail halfmoon with a few odds and ends in there 

Well, here is a situation.

situation one: A acknowledgeable breeder over the internet shows you the parent's pictures. Both are "pure crowntail" both are a bright blue, and both seemingly healthy.
problem: crowntail technically did not exist until we crossed these with those and those with these and these with that...  So... there is always a chance of 1/10 could be a halfmoon, or short finned 

situation two: a local breeder says, hey, got these parents to show you in person... one is this cross, and the mum is that cross... The offspring - well I have no idea, but hey want a color I'll see if there is one for you 

What would you choose? I personally like the people who say "hey look at my pretty parents... want an offspring?"  than "pay me $500 dollars for this screw-you-over-he-is-fragile-male." lol


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Personality has NOTHING to do with where you get the fish. My fish have just as much personality as ones bought from pet stores. Petstore fish are just as "fragile" as fish bought from breeders. 

.... guess there's quote, un-quote "snobs" on both sides.

I agree with both GreenTea and BettasRule.


----------



## MaggieLynn (Jun 24, 2011)

I curious about what you mean by letting them choose you. I also spend alot of time at petstores looking over the bttas. Im just interested in how your process is or how they choose you. 

Who said that to you? was it someone on here? That is just stupid I have had some beautiful bettas from petstores.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i want to breed, to help out not only improve the veiltail lines, but to continue on a genetic trait that's not very common(the dalmatian line. not alot of breeders play with it).

also, i loved raising Chappy from a fry. it wasn't easy at all, but i enjoyed watching her color up, grow her fins, and just.... thriving. i'm not gonna go buy a male and female from the pet store(despite them seeming to have wonderful stock), and breed them. because of what i want to do, only part of my breeding stock will come from a pet store(the veiltail orange dals i wanna breed). the others, may have to come from breeders. x: i have a long road ahead of me.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

No, it was elsewhere. It kind of pissed me off... I understand that there are some awesome fish you can buy for a more expensive price, because they are more desireable, but they aren't the only ones who can breed...

Also by "choose me" I mean that instead of saying "oh he is pretty I want him" I would rather watch them, and see how they react. I would rather that they "call out to me" then pick one for his colors. My Spartan was actually rather ugly when I got him and I got him young lol. But hey, he is pretty now, but because he was curious and "called out to me" I chose him lol. Could have had the vibrant blue, or the fiery red... naahh


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I understand getting bettas from breeders, like, why not, but the person who said that basically said we breed mutts, and wont make money. I don't do it for money  I do it because 1. I learn 2. I was curious 3. I wanted to try 4. why not? I don't want to breed fish for money... just for experience and knowledge.

If in life you have money, but no knowledge, who cares for what you say?


----------



## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

It is a sad fact that most breeders only breed for a few years. Perhaps there is a reason why?


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That is a good question. Personally I will do it as a hobby, but ALWAYS make sure if I cannot re-home my bettas to have a home for my bettas. In other words shelves are a must xDD


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

well, although there are many people who love bettas people are still under the blindness that they can only be by themselves, with no other fish, and can be in bowls forever and ever in murky icky water. (true fact, people believe that). People rather have community tanks. But... my bettas has been with other fish, therefore...myth busted. Just depends on your betta  and type of other fish o.o


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Personality has NOTHING to do with where you get the fish. My fish have just as much personality as ones bought from pet stores. Petstore fish are just as "fragile" as fish bought from breeders.
> 
> .... guess there's quote, un-quote "snobs" on both sides.
> 
> I agree with both GreenTea and BettasRule.



+20!!

Not to mention this thread is EXTREMELY offensive to us breeders that take the time finding the perfect pair on aquabid or off, for a 'perfect' betta.

You talk about doing research but you obviously haven't done it yourself - yes you can inbreed til F8 but you find another betta with a quality you desire to inject into your line to strengthen your line. Not to mention when you leave dad in longer he will take care of any deformities from the inbreeding. Thus you have a smaller spawn but a stronger one!

It's great you have people lined up for your fish - but what happens when you have hundreds of fry from ONE spawn and no one you know wants anymore and your lps can't take anymore from you b/c they already are maxed out?

You obviously don't own one of my carefully chosen 'designer' fish babies b/c they are FULL of personality.

It's pretty damn rude of you to come in here and make such a broad judgement like that in the breeders section. If you want to breed your petstore bettas that are just as fragile as 'designer' bettas (I have had more pet store bettas die on me than breeder bettas and they all receive the same quality care from me) more power to you. But you don't come into a forum for breeders and flame and bash anyone that chooses to breed halfmoon/plakat/superior crown tail/double tail bettas instead of petstore veiltail bettas. That is downright rude and I think you need to learn some forum ettiquette.

Us 'snobby' breeders choose the fish we do b/c they are more likely to sell to help offset the costs for breeding. Not to mention if you want to show your carefully bred bettas they HAVE to be halfmoon, etc b/c veiltail is not sanctioned in the show.

Seems like you're more of a snob than any 'designer breeder' I know of.


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> well, although there are many people who love bettas people are still under the blindness that they can only be by themselves, with no other fish, and can be in bowls forever and ever in murky icky water. (true fact, people believe that). People rather have community tanks. But... my bettas has been with other fish, therefore...myth busted. Just depends on your betta  and type of other fish o.o



No, myth not busted. You can keep bettas with certain species but no matter what bettas are tempermental. They might be sweet and docile one day, and 5 months down the line you have them with other community fish and either some other fish has picked the betta to death or the betta has gone on a killing spree. They are not called fighting fish for nothing you know.

I just can not believe some of these things you are spouting off in here. It's downright RUDE. Would you be talking face to face to a stranger like that? Doubtful. Being anonymous on the internet does not grant you permission to be downright rude to people.


----------



## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i am sorry if i said anything offensive to anyone. sorry cajun and 1fish. I take it back about the personality thing.


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Cajunamy I apologize if I offended anyone. I have nothing against breeders and the lovely fish the produce. I personally just feel that there are tons of pet store fish that can hold up against selected breedings. See my boys Thoth and Poppycock. I agree that breeding should be to help strengthen the betta lines and help the species. 
But I also will breed because I love my babies and would love the next generation. Yes culling is needed and not every fry can or will survive.

IMO it doesn't matter if they are pet store or breeder select fish, if they have a trait you desire and fulfill your wish and need to be bred into the line go for it. I admit I am fully a newbie in the world of breeding and I will be breeding to sell, but also because I love my fish. I will be selling my fry online and to my LFS and other people. I am not breeding VTs, there may be one I will breed because his colors are beyond amazing to me.

Also it seems that you are being very rude as well. This is not a flame just anb observation. Everyone is welcome to their opinions, breeders, hobbyist, and those who have never bred. 
I am more than open to a pleasant debate or opinion, criticism, and ideas.
So please I hope you don't take offense but please also try to understand my point of view.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

+1 Amy. I love my little "designer" betta I got from a breeder.(who happens to be 1fish2fish) He's just as hardy as my other fish. I also love my Petsmart, yes, I said Petsmart fish. They all have different personalities but personalities nonetheless. Bettas are solitary fish and IMO do best on their own but IF they have the right personality they can coexist with certain other fish.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I am not saying "designer" or whatever fish are "terrible" are anything. I am just saying... how come I cannot breed my own bettas, who happen to yeah maybe be not the pure bred perfect creatures? HMMM? The message the other person put forth, saying that we are wasting TIME because we "cant make money off of these mutts" is so full of stuff. Yes, I understand there are people who have wonderful purebred bettas. Don't rub it in. I am just saying plain and simple, obviously NOT plain and simple enough the following message:

I CAN BREED ANY DERNN BETTA I FREAKING WANT TO WHETHER DESIGNER OR HALF BREED, HYBRID OR UNKNOWN. I DO NOT BREED FOR MONEY, SO WHY WOULD I GO BUY PUREBREEDS, WITHOUT THE INTENTION OF SOMETHING MORE THAN LEARNING?

And so what if "no one wants" my IMPURE bettas. I am willing to house them, keep them fed, happy all that jazz. Does it matter? No, to me it does not. I do not see a simple animal, like a fish, as some "designer" or 'mutt" they are a creature, no matter how small, that shouldn't have firstly been bred as fighting fish. As stupid as breeding fighter dogs! 

I do not, have not, and will not say that "breeder's fish are bad" or however you thought I put it, cajun, I am just saying I can bloody well breed the fish I want to breed, and should not have people putting their noses up snuffing me because I don't have some special designer creature. To me, nature is nature. People are messing with it to please their own desires, or other people's desires.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

FYI I do not BASH you precious oh so freaking wonderful fish. I don't go around town saying "oh wow, you have a shitzu. what a stupid little ...."

"It's pretty damn rude of you to come in here and make such a broad judgement like that in the breeders section. If you want to breed your petstore bettas that are just as fragile as 'designer' bettas (I have had more pet store bettas die on me than breeder bettas and they all receive the same quality care from me) more power to you. But you don't come into a forum for breeders and flame and bash anyone that chooses to breed halfmoon/plakat/superior crown tail/double tail bettas instead of petstore veiltail bettas. That is downright rude and I think you need to learn some forum ettiquette"

forum for breeders? only breeders hey? cant ask questions, cant learn, cant try, cant cant CANT CANT is what you put across to me. Well guess what, I DID. I am pointing out the nutcase who said that I cannot make money off of MUTTS is someone who doesn't even deserve to have fish, or any animal if that is the way that person thinks. Because I perhaps one day may end up getting breeder bettas, and trying with them. But for HIM to BASH someone on wanting to breed a simple pair of store bought fish, is CRAP. complete and UTTER crap. All because he thinks everything is about money.

Here is a question, one-who-was-offended-and-continued-to-offend.

Do YOU breed ONLY for money? to make thousands and thousands of dollars? or do you care for the fish too? 

If yes to the "care for the fish" then good. you are a great breeder. But if you are one of the "breed breed breed mill breed breed money money money" people, then shame, of course (which goes to people who breed anything, fish, dog, cat etc for money and money alone without having feelings)


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I am not hating on some breeder fish. I am just saying. Why is breeding ONLY for money? SO what if I would say 'pay for shipping and she/he is yours" or "hey, want a betta? free." or "hey pet/fish store, I have some bettas for you. want to take some? they are healthy and active. I don't want money from them." Is that bad? if it is well then I like my world just fine, here. 

Again, my message, "IMO": breeding bettas should not just be for money, but for the love of the breed of fish, and to LEARN. why not learn.


----------



## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Sena, I understand that this is an important topic for you, but please remember to be respectful to others still.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I did not realize I was coming across as "rude" or whatever. I was just saying... yeah I don't breed specific purebreds. I did not say "purebred bettas are stupid fish" or anything. Wherever that is said, I did not put it. end of story.

I aslo understand that yeah if you want a specific strain, or color, you may need to go to a breeder, but again like the very first message I posted on here, on this thread, the person assumed that breeding is money money money... It isn't. I know cajun and a lot of the others do it because they can, they want to, and they love the breed. But I am just saying the ones who breed like it's a mill are just... terrible.


----------



## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

I understand that it may not have been meant that way, but when you are talking through forums it is very hard to perceive the tone of the conversation. 

Thanks.


----------



## TheCrysCat (Mar 14, 2011)

I think we all got your original message, which is, at its core, good. What most people are having a problem with is how you're saying it. "Oh my petstore fish can swim, but my breeder one might pull a fin lol." There's a very heavy insinuation that LPS bettas are better. You don't have to bash one side in order to prove yours. I LOVE my LPS bettas, but I don't think that they're superior than one that was bred by a hobbyist.

That having been said, people who breed for money aren't incredibly... smart. Most of it goes right back into breeding in the first place.


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

CrysCat, that was me who said that actually. I was just poking fun at the guy who was saying about why bother breeding if you can not make hundred to thousands of dollars per fish. I was simply joking so once again sorry if I offended anyone here. I was not attacking breeder fish just that guys attitude.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well then say "hey, don't say it that way, like this would be better" instead of saying I am WORSE than the person who said breeding bettas is ONLY for money and that people waste their time. Or saying I am rude. Because then I could definitely say, they are no better than me better than that guy. And so on and so forth.

but whatever. Bash me for supposedly bashing breeder fish (is hating the word designer because it keeps reminding me of those little teacup dogs >< lol )


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

And yes, Amph was just saying that because of that guy... he did act like a breeder's fish was superior to everything else, because it is worth thousands of dollars (um... maybe a hundred or something. but just my opinion) and people absolutely would pay 5000 dollars for a designer betta.... ><


----------



## TheCrysCat (Mar 14, 2011)

I never said you were worse. I said that people who for money were idiots -.- I thought I phrased my response respectfully.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I would also like to say that some people in Asia (and the US also) own fish farms as their LIVELIHOOD. That's how they make money. Yes its sad that due to that fact they're willing to let grossly deformed fish out into society... but we can't judge them for being "mills" when that is their only method for putting food on the table. Some of the greatest breeders in Asia are "mill" breeders. Doesn't make them any less amazing. It also doesn't mean they don't love their fish, on the contrary they must love them quite a bit to be willing to dedicate their lives, day in and day out to changing water and caring for their stock.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Personally, I would go for a healthy fish to breed... whether my older 2.5 years old (that's right) Spartan, who is definitely doing awesome right now (he moved the nest... somewhere I read to avoid fungus on the eggs?) and he constantly cares for the eggs. I had him since he was about 8 months old... just a pet store guy.

I know there are some pretty good breeder bettas however here where I live, there are two breeder's who send them to the pet store (the oops and the ughs, and the meh's). One sent deformed bettas (like my bent Admiral) and the other sends wonderful artistic fishies. Any actual expensive breeder is 2 hours away, and wanting 50$ per fish or more 

Ugh. let me re-explain.

those who breed for greed money, are bad. those who NEED to, well duh okay go for it!
And again, I said, breed for money money money and DON'T care. I understand if it's all they can do... but if it is "because I wanna make quick cash and these fish are stupid" like sadly... some peope I know do... then it is terrible.

Also, Cat, wasn't you who said it.

Also, I would be looking for females. Know where I have to find them? A breeder. because here Madame was the only female who was decently alive (the others were probably 2 months, and lethargic, or dead D; ). SO again.... have NOTHING against breeder fish. Just everything against the people who breed the fish for quick easy cash  firstly surely not quick xD and not easy either!! lol. Those who NEED to, go for it. Those who LOVE to, go for it.


----------



## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i definatly wasn't trying to offend breeders either. i have high respect for them to be able to produce such beautiful fish.


----------



## iloveengl (Sep 1, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> I would also like to say that some people in Asia (and the US also) own fish farms as their LIVELIHOOD.


This is an excellent point that is often overlooked by many betta keepers. It's sometimes too easy to forget that there are many others in this world who do what they do not because they're heartless, but because they have no other feasible means of survival for themselves or their families. It's really, really sad when situations like that involve the potential suffering of living creatures; yet it's a common story across the globe. 

I would like to add that some people choose to purchase from breeders (even breeders who make a profit) that maintain a healthy environment for their fish because they do not want to support what they consider to be the unethical treatment of bettas kept by pet stores in their area.

It's possible to be a breeder who breeds prize winning fish, and who maintains a healthy environment for them.

I do agree that people who come into betta breeding just to make a profit are quite naive and are probably are not aware of just how extensive betta breeding is, as well as the amount of time and money it takes to raise 200-300 fry in a warm, clean environment. Personally, I would never breed, because I would be too nervous about bring fish into the world without being able to talk to every single one of the future owners to ensure they are going to good home. 

But that's just my two cents.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Here there is no choice D: I LOVED "Ralph's Pet Store" named after the nice man's dog, who died of old age. He knew everything and anything. He gave me my first betta!! He cared for all the bettas... none and I mean NONE were in cups. He retired and it closed down... There is only one store left... And they do not get decent females in D:

And again... NOTHING against breeder fish!!! everything against pompus people like the guy who assumed breeding is all about quick money. I like purebreds, of any critter type. Just... ones who do it for the wrong reasons are bad


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

There are a lot of people who breed for the love of the fish and not for the money.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I know that.

Just like I love my Spartan. May be the only time I can breed him, since he is 2 and a half years old (apparently not a good thing to do?) but he is a strong lil' boy, and so far he has done good and still with loads of pep -.- if he were a human being he would tire me (go go go run run run xD)


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

lol.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Anyways, even if not many of my bettas can find homes I keep them. I'll try finding Admiral a home once he gets healthier with colors and all


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

Differing opinions are great. They make the world so wonderfully diverse. But you can't just come and say things
like (yes I realize these are 2 different people, but the both of you seem to be of the same opinion)



Sena Hansler said:


> I wouldn't want some designer teacup dog that'll die on me any year  so why would I buy a fish for 100$ or more, to maybe have her killed by a male? or vice versa?  lol





Amphibianite said:


> Thanks Sena. Exactly, in my opinion "mutts" are always better. You get more personality and love from those who you love. Oh look my 1000 dollar betta is swimming, how pretty....wait he may strain a fin I can't let him do that.
> Oh look my beautiful 2 dollar boy is swimming great, maybe I should feed him and take pictures. He loves to dance for me XD





Sena Hansler said:


> bahahaha at the comparison.... XDDDDD yes, mustn't let that expensive fish strain his poor fin. Must medicate the heck out of him so he stays in the utmost perfect condition...
> 
> My Spartan survived a mystery poisoning leaking from a tank's walls. Guess what... bet you a "breeder's perfect betta" would have died in seconds. He survived, with only the edges of his gills blackened but NO side effects, plus he chose Madame as his spawn buddy... What special fish does that? surely the more-expensive-than-you-can-afford fish are chosen for... I let mine choose for themselves
> 
> and "mutt" is such a stupid word lol. Everything nowadays is a mutt... people, dogs, cats, fish... doesn't matter anymore to anyone who uses that word lol





Sena Hansler said:


> bahahaha at the comparison.... XDDDDD yes, mustn't let that expensive fish strain his poor fin. Must medicate the heck out of him so he stays in the utmost perfect condition...
> 
> My Spartan survived a mystery poisoning leaking from a tank's walls. Guess what... bet you a "breeder's perfect betta" would have died in seconds. He survived, with only the edges of his gills blackened but NO side effects, plus he chose Madame as his spawn buddy... What special fish does that? surely the more-expensive-than-you-can-afford fish are chosen for... I let mine choose for themselves
> 
> and "mutt" is such a stupid word lol. Everything nowadays is a mutt... people, dogs, cats, fish... doesn't matter anymore to anyone who uses that word lol



and then come back and say you weren't being rude? B/c that is.

Sena:
Where the heck did I say I was breeding for money? FYI breeding takes hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
My fish are all well cared for. I don't know what the heck you are so mad about. I didn't say you CAN'T learn. What I said is that
coming into a breeding forum and bashing all us 'seirous' and 'designer' breeders (yes your words, you may want to go back and check your posts)
is incredibly rude. I did NOT say you can't breedd your fish. I asked you questions. To which you got downright
pissed off.

And guess what? I don't breed for money. I never intend to show my fish. I breed for exactly the same reason you stated, b/c I love the breed, I love
to raise them from egg to adult. But you jumped to conclusions, assuming that I breed for money. You don't even know me, yet you are jumping to all
these conclusions about me.

But another thing I think is funny (not funny laughing at you, so don't take it that way) where in the heck are you finding $300-$1000 bettas? That 
is pretty crazy!

Another thing you don't know about me, I have at least 10 pet store bettas and I love them. They are my pets. So don't assume I am a 'mill' just b/c
I breed so called 'purebred' bettas.



Sena Hansler said:


> those who breed for greed money, are bad. those who NEED to, well duh okay go for it!
> And again, I said, breed for money money money and DON'T care. I understand if it's all they can do... but if it is "because I wanna make quick cash and these fish are stupid" like sadly... some peope I know do... then it is terrible.





So I want to clarify - are you saying that I am breeding for greed money? If it is me you are referring to, excuse me while I laugh my butt off.
I have spent near $1000 on fish and set ups to breed. 10 gallons, jars, grow out tanks, filters, $50 for a pair of bettas, the list goes on. 
And I have made NO profit off of any of my spawns. None. I have sold maybe 10 - at $3 a piece. My next spawn? Maybe $5. I won't be selling my
spawns for $30-50. Probably not even $20. My goal is to sell beautiful bettas for affordable prices. So I will not ever! make a profit. I'll be
extremely happy if I break even, and for it to be a self-sustaining hobby. So you really need to stop assuming that those that breed 'pure bred'
(and honestly I don't get that term for fish lol) are greedy. But even if you weren't referencing me - not many breeders in the States will make any
sort of profit off of it. Those across the sea though, these fish are their livlihood. 

And I TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY agree with you that those that are breeding and don't care about the fish are terrible. I mean selling a deformed fish? That's just very ethically wrong.
But that is not me. It just seems in your posts back to me that you think I am that sort of breeder, to which I say, you really don't know me at all. So you can't just judge me like that, 
and that is what I meant as rude.

After reading everything, I get where you are coming from. It's just the way you wrote it out, was pretty disrespectful. And I have to disagree that I was rude, I don't see it, but then maybe
I'm also wrong on that. I was pointing out to you how it came out, as you were just going on and on and well, someone had to stop it b/c it was just really wrong. I'm sorry that you don't see that.

But in the end, I agree with you. This guy, whoever he is, is so so very wrong thinking he can make quick cash off of breeding bettas. It is HARD work, and expensive work. If you care for the fish that is.
I have absolutely no problems with anyone breeding a pet store fish. None whatsoever. So long as you are able to provide a proper home for those you can't rehome, it's all good.


----------



## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Cajun - The $500-$1000 was something the other guy wrote not something we were thinking.
As for the post you quotes from me I was being heavily sarcastic and joking when i wrote that. Which I did post earlier. Once again sorry if it offended. I love the looks of a lot of the breeder bettas. I have nothing against people breeding to make some money as long as it is not for greed. Neither of us as far as I can tell were targeting you. Sorry if it seems like I was coming off like that. 
I personally will be selling some of my spawn to people on here, on aquabid and to some of my LFS. I am not doing it to get rich or make a serious profit. 
I just want my babies to go to good homes. If i get a little kickback and break even or help with gas money some I will be super happy.


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

Just glad it's sorted now.

And where the heck did this guy think he'll get $500-$1000? That's kinda ridiculous. The only way he'd ever get that is if he came up with a new strain color-wise or tail wise. Even then, like when the 'dumbo's ' came out, they were what, $80-100? This guy is nuts.

All my spawn so far has gone to forum peeps and my neighbors, and family. I have about 50ish left, so I need to start going to Aquabid. It was a huge spawn as the parents were not related, so there were no deformities.


----------



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I would also like to add this...

The comment that started this thread was obviously made by an ignorant jerk, and probably should have just been ignored. Because you took it personally, you took any commentary made here, including by me, personally. Everyone here loves bettas, "designer" or not, and of course you can breed, but you can't expect everyone to support that, and no one else would expect the same of you.

I think if you're really comfortable, (you meaning anyone) you wouldn't need to defend whatever you've got going on. We all love happy healthy fish. To me, that's what important. Breeding is a huge undertaking, and it is because of special and selective breeding that we have all the variety and color types that we do. Your mixed veiltails will be beautiful to some people, and probably genuinely disliked by others. I have a certain tail type that I just think looks, well, bad, but I don't disapprove of people breeding that type, and I know that beauty is subjective.

Different strokes for different folks. We all love bettas, and we can all agree that the person who made the statement that started this whole mess is an utter, hopeless, moron.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks Amph for clarifying my "breeding for greed is bad" comment was not directed at anyone in here -.- Because it wasn't. It was directed at someone, who instead of saying "well this is what you could do" decided to say that we were wasting time.

I mean yeah sure I'll charge a lil' for my fry, (if they turn out very well) but it would be just to rival my pet store here. They don't really take care of their lil' bettas... Yes they can be in the tank with neon tetras (looks neat actually) and perhaps skirted tetra, or blind cave tetra, but... to put them in with gouramis, and barbs, and then have a person (me) walk in and see that the barbs and gouramis have left the bettas as nothing but a chunk of body, alive,  If I were to sell, it would actually be pretty cheap lol. I can do other things for money.. but this I can easily do to teach people - especially ones here. No one tells them (kids) how to care for the fish.

The pet store, let two kids get a small tank (made for betta, perhaps a half gallon with rocks and a pump, which the pump is much too fast for betta), 3 minnows, and I think what was 2 painted tetra. Wouldn't the children be shocked that their fish died the day of? And disappointed, sad, plus left with no money because I think that was a rip off...

Also, the comment didn't spurt "breeders suck" because I doubt he breeds anything. And if he does breed bettas maybe he feels he doesn't like competition? (i dunno)

I was just asking... "Who on here, breeds bettas for "300-5000" dollars? and who on here, breeds because: they can, they wanted to, learning experience, advancing in breeding ability...?"

So... WHY do you breed bettas? that's all it was supposed to be, really.


----------



## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I breed b/c I love the breed. That is why I primarily started. But my goal is to inject more affordable showy bettas onto the market. I won't be able to do alot of them, as I have a household to run and 2 small children, not to mention my other crafty endeavors. But it's a start.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well cajun, then you breed your lil' bettas for a good reason  I think if any kid got a betta from me, I'd make sure to give them real information not "they can live in a styrofoam cup, feed as much as they can eat in three minutes, clean once a week to once a month (for a cup??)" lol. Rid some of those rumors  sure they can live in a cup... but they won't thrive lol.

I've always wanted to breed my Spartan...for 2 years now. Except there was never a female on the market where I live :| Until a few months ago -.-


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I breed because I want to better the fish. I want to create to-standard fish with as little health issues as possible. I want to breed Halfmoons that have thick bodies and thick finnage that can stand the test of time. I want to try to eradicate the neurological problems that are seen in long fin bettas such as tail biting. I want to keep colors alive that people who think it's okay to breed any fish to any fish are destroying. Reds, Blues, Yellow, Cambodian... the colors that are disappearing or morphing into lesser versions of themselves because of inscrutable breeding. I want to educate people and make them see that they can have a well bred, ethically bred pet and not support un-ethical breeding. I want them to see why it is important to have a GOAL and not just breed for experience. Every spawn is a chance to improve something, even if you only do one spawn you can make a goal that you hope will make the next generation of betta better than what they are today. I want to see fish that are more willing breeders and better caretakers of their nests and eggs.

I want to make well bred fish more available to people in the US. I want to make it easier for new breeders to get their hands on a well bred pair of fish without having to import. I want to urge people to join the IBC so we can be a united front and bring more education to the general public on bettas.

I also want to breed wild species. I want to keep species that are on the brink of extinction from actually going extinct. I want to show people that even if a fish isn't as bright and colorful as a salt water or domestic bred fresh water fish doesn't mean it isn't BEAUTIFUL in its own way.


I want to keep the domesticated betta an AGGRESSIVE species. I feel very strongly about that. The day my bettas stop flaring will be a sad day indeed. 

Most of all, I want to educate people on betta care and keeping. I want to show them how to keep their fish happy and healthy and do my part to end the abuse of these beautiful fish in pet stores and in homes of people who don't know any better or don't care.


I don't care if I ever make a dime off my fish. Any money I would make would go right back into the hobby anyways.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

very nice 1fish2fish. Yeah when my male's eggs hatch (probably today or tonight!!!) I literally cannot wait until they are older and I can pick out a good strong, healthy guy for the next generation  Or perhaps, use a female instead... never know ^^

I will admit though.. I had my first betta in a bowl because I was told he could. Didn't have a heater... but I had him where the house was warmest for the winter because my room was an icebox D: He seemed pretty happy. He lived for 7 years lol. But since he died from medicine, from now on I used complete natural methods, or salt to heal anything!! which I have yet to have to do


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

This whole thread =


----------



## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

^I lol'd

All I could get from this was:

- You don't approve of milling, so therefore you should technically not approve of purchasing pet store bettas
- You also don't approve of AB bettas because of the possible combination that they are milled and/or they are "designer weaklings"

WHATISTHISIDON'TEVEN.


----------



## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

If this was facebook I would like 1f2f, PewPewPew and bahamut's posts.


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

"eradicate the neurological problems that are seen in long fin bettas such as tail biting." I didn't know bettas with longer fins did that.... unless my Spartan just doesn't care lol. But guess my long finned fellow Dusk (who is in quarantine since I got him, which then I found today he has ICH...good thing for quarintine) would kill anything...


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Bettagirl lol... you mean the one saying everyone wastes their time? Meh. lol he probably never bred a fish before (fyi livebearers like mollies and guppies don't count... they breed on their own xD), and I am pretty sure he is one of the people who think fish are stupid... If only he knew fish were smarter than him.

personally, I think bettas are pretty darn smart o.o


----------



## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> Bettagirl lol... you mean the one saying everyone wastes their time? Meh. lol he probably never bred a fish before (fyi livebearers like mollies and guppies don't count... they breed on their own xD), and I am pretty sure he is one of the people who think fish are stupid... If only he knew fish were smarter than him.
> 
> personally, I think bettas are pretty darn smart o.o


i think Rocketeer likes me, o_e each time i look into his tank, he rushes up to me and starts to wriggle about xD he stares at me :shock:


----------



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

BettaGirl290 said:


> i think Rocketeer likes me, o_e each time i look into his tank, he rushes up to me and starts to wriggle about xD he stares at me :shock:


 
LOL :lol: I know. Spartan is my lil' buddy. He only comes to see me... could care less for the other people. And oh yeah!! Admiral is finally becoming a lot more active and responsive!!! yay for this lil' rescue. He is turning a pinkish/lavender :shock:


----------



## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> LOL :lol: I know. Spartan is my lil' buddy. He only comes to see me... could care less for the other people. And oh yeah!! Admiral is finally becoming a lot more active and responsive!!! yay for this lil' rescue. He is turning a pinkish/lavender :shock:


Hurray! im happy that hes doing better! :lol: i love my lil psychos ~!


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

In my opinion..."Proper' breeders breed to improve on colour, finnage, or form of their line and are usually aiming towards a certain goal. The difference with "mutt" breeders is they breed "just cos they can" or "they're so cute, I must breed them!" 
There is no goal or plan. What is the purpose of breeding them...


----------

