# Walstad Tank



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

I was wondering if anyone has a Walstad/NPT tank? Experience with them? Or opinions about them?

I am planning on setting up a 10g for a betta, some cories, and a snail here in the next few weeks. I am trying to plan out exactly what I want, and have been going back and forth on the substrate. After some research, I think I've eliminated sand, and am leaning towards Eco-complete. However, I started reading up on the Walstad method, suplimented by browsing through the el natural board (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/).

If I were to go this route, I think it would only be a partial NPT tank. I'd have the soil, gravel, and plants, but think I would supliment the tank with a filter.

I'm not looking for a quick cycling method. More for a natural tank that works best for the plants and fish. My other concern is moving with it.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Narnian (Mar 20, 2010)

I posted the same question myself, over at that forum. Lol! From what I hear, it is perfectly fine for a betta and in fact, it's much preferred over the majority of fake tanks that are at this forum. (No offense, I'm just saying that natural is always better then fake everything.)

Anyways, from what I got for answers, people seemed to say that regular topsoil capped with pea gravel is best for this type of tank, but I hear the soil does a heck of a lot to make the water brown/cloudy. Also, you basically can't ever change things around, or the soil/gravel will mix in.

Another drawback is I've heard (again, not sure if this part is true), that after a year or so, the soil is completely depleted of minerals for the plants, so basically you have to tear it down to somehow add more. I don't know.

I, personally, am going with Eco-complete as I've heard rave-reviews on it everywhere, and you won't have to worry about the factor of it getting mixed in. I'm also buying either API Leaf Zone or Seachem Flourish Excel, which is supposed to help the plants TREMENDOUSLY. It's your choice whatever you wish to do, but if you go with the soil, please let me know how it works for you! ;-)


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That is all I have now are the natural planted tanks, the Walstad method with a twist of my own. I love them and have not had any real issues with them. Some of mine are going into the 3rd year and don't feel the need to tear down, the decaying of plants, fish, snail, shrimp waste and fish food seem keep the soil active for great plant growth. My biggest problem is the plant growth, the plants grow so fast that I can't keep up with it.
I used potting soil on some, plain dirt from my yard with a little native red clay mixed in, one with a 50/50 soil/kitty litter mix- all with play sand cap and some small gravel more to keep the plants anchored until they rooted, I did use a black sand cap on two of them, I have 9 total in the house and a 250g outside.
Some with filters for water movement and some without filters. All lights range from 1.5-2.5wpg, CF daylight bulbs that are changed every 6 month and some get natural sunlight from a east window.
I use trumpet snails to help keep the soil from going anaerobic as well as stem plants to help bring oxygen into the soil.
Shrimp are my shredders to help speed dead plant decay
Overall, I really enjoy this method and it has worked well for me.


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

Thank you! I have another year left of school, so I would have to move the tank a couple of times a year. I think that is my biggest holdback. I read a post on el natural that they just took the water level down to the gravel and didn't have any problems. I feel like as long as I'm not driving crazily, it shouldn't be a problem, but am not sure.

Do you keep tank covers on them? A lot of the tanks I've seen do not have traditional covers. Right now I have anacharis, java ferns, a banana plant, and a type of wisteria. I feel like I would have to add something else to this mix?

Regardless, I want a very natural tank, and plan to have live plants. I am wondering if I should take the plunge and add the soil?

And do you like the sand method? Or do you prefer gravel? Is your only problem keeping up with the plant growth?

Thanks!


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

Also, do you find the shrimp or snail breeding to be invasive? I'd like to look into both, but am concerned about the overbreeding.


----------



## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

You could always go with something like ADA aquasoil, and then cap it with flourite sand or eco complete. If you plan to have cories, they would much prefer the sand to the eco complete--the eco can be a little rough. If you go the sand route you might want to keep some malaysian trumpet snails, since they burrow in it and keep it from compacting. 

As far as the shrimp and snail populations go, you can get snails that don't usually reproduce in fresh water, such as nerites. They're efficient algae eaters and won't take over the tank. Same with shrimp--amanos don't typically multiply like others do, and they eat algae wonderfully. As for other types of shrimp and snails, they will only be able to reproduce if they are given enough food. Controlling the food will control the population. I dose all my tanks with Excel in order to promote fast growth and keep the algae down so my snail populations haven't exploded. I like breeding the red cherry shrimp, though. If you have too many, you can always sell your overflow shrimp on craigslist for a few bucks each. 

As for the Walstad method, some parts of the concept I don't really think will last long term. You can't make a perfect ecosystem in a fish tank forever. You will still have to fertilize and do water changes--but in my opinion, planted tanks are much more beautiful and fulfilling to maintain, and better for fish.

If you cycle the tank fishlessly, you should have no problems maintaining a healthy bacterial colony from the beginning.  Good luck!


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

With sand, is it hard to clean? Do you siphon the sand, or do you just siphon just above it to get rid of major debris?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't use hoods on any of my tanks, all open top, some have two lights over them so that they are covered with those.

I like snails and I keep the common type like, ramshorn, pond and trumpet and they do reproduce fast and I trap and remove them on a regular basis. These snails have a job in my tanks, waste for plant food, eating dead and decaying plants, algae, and aeration of the substrate.

Shrimp, I have the red cherry and the yellow color morph and ghost shrimp, these are my shredders to help speed the decaying process of dead plants as well as clean-up of foods and tiny bit of algae control, but I really don't have that much algae to start with as it has never been a problem.
Reproduction in the shrimp is pretty fast, I started with a dozen of each type 3 years ago and have well over a hundred if not more now in 3 different tanks and at least 25+ in all the tanks 10g-20g, less in the 2g and 5g tanks.

Except for the spawning tanks and the fry grow-out tanks, I don't make water changes anymore on the most part, maybe 1-2 times a year now. 
Water prams are zero across the board for ammonia, nitrite, and even nitrate due to the plants using both the ammonia for food before it converts and any that does gets used as plant food and the DOC's are used by the plants as well. The tank is near 98% planted and it has a very low stocking. 
Higher stocking and less plant mass and it would get/need water changes.

This type of system will only work with lots of plants, more of the stem and floating to act/work as the filtration with some added rosettes, ferns, moss, too few plants and too high a bioload and it can crash.

The tank also has to be stable and in the beginning water changes are needed daily, every-other day, weekly, monthly until the soil becomes stable in its submersed state and plants start to actively grow and this usually takes about 2-3 months.
With close monitoring and water changes fish can be added the day the tank is set up, provided that the right type of plants are used.

These systems are NOT for everyone and care needs to be made when setting them up and adding fish all in the same day. I have yet to lose a any livestock related to water quality from newly set-up NPT.
Lots of things can go wrong in the start up as well as down the road...so lots of research is needed and close monitoring so not to risk the livestock life.....

I don't use any added ferts or excel and no CO2, these are as near a complete ecosystem you can get in a closed system created in a glass box.....but they do still need some care and very close monitoring.

Low tech, low light and loads of fun, the livestock act as the ferts and the plants as the filter. Beautiful to look at and fish/livestock behavior that is awesome and as natural as can be seen in a closed system.

These are planted tank with some livestock not aquariums with plants.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

MoePaac said:


> With sand, is it hard to clean? Do you siphon the sand, or do you just siphon just above it to get rid of major debris?


This can be tricky, when I need to do a little sand cleaning I place the siphon over the area and use my free hand to agitate the debri toward the siphon, depending on the tank I may or may not turn the filter off so the drifting sand will not damage the propeller in the filter. 
But mostly I live with the mulm and I like the natural look of it as long as it is not causing plants health/growth problems or livestock issues. 
I view it somewhat like compost that can renew the soil of needs of the plants.


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

I really appreciate all the information! One more set of questions.

Now I'm leaning towards sand. For ease/good scenario for the plants and cories/beta, would you recommend purely sand. Or should I add a thin layer of some organic matter? I'm considering a thin layer, for some nutrient base... then the main layer of sand.

If I do decide on the sand route, it seems that ramshorn snails are a really good idea? Or else, the sand will compact and actually harm the plants.

Overall I am looking at a tank that is compromised of:

10 gallon with filtration.
Either purely sand, or possibly a layer of organic matter then sand
live plants (maybe I should look into some moss?)
I'll have a piece of driftwood
1 betta
1 mystery snail
4 to 6 schwartz cories (i have two currently, but will add others after the tank is set up)
possibly ramshorn snails
possibly shrimp

With the last two being really good ideas for the overall health/maintenance of the tank.


----------



## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

You want Malaysian trumpet snails, not ramshorns. Ramshorns do not burrow, MTS do.  As for the substrate, you have a few options. You could use a neutral silica sand with a nutrient base (laterite, aquasoil, clay whatever) under it, or you could combine an iron enriched sand like flourite with a nutrient base, or you could just use flourite and maybe some root tabs beneath your rooted plants. That's what I do along with the seachem line of liquid fertilizers.

You might want to go with amano shrimp if you decide to add shrimp at all. My bettas do not tolerate dwarf shrimp like RCS, CRS, or ghost shrimp. I have a lot of bettas and every tank is densely planted, no matter what the shrimp always end up getting eaten. Amanos are a bit bigger and shouldn't be interpreted as food by the betta.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That is correct, you want the trumpet snails, they are also a livebearer and reproduce pretty fast like any common snail.

If you are going to go with any soil at the base, you really need lots of plants to start or you can risk the fish.

Plain sand, I would not have it any deeper than 1-11/2 inches deep and place the driftwood in the tank before the substrate so you don't end up with anaerobic spot under it.

I have never had any problems with my Bettas eating/killing the adult shrimp in my tanks, I am sure they ate some of the shrimplett but not enough to matter and some of my heavier shrimp tanks have had up to 30-50 sub-adult Bettas for grow-out and my 10g spawning tanks both have shrimp and neither breeders have been seen killing or eating bodies, but these tanks are densely planted with lots of java moss too and I feed really good with lots of live food.


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

Well, a leaking tank is forcing me to break down and set up a new tank. Luckily it is my 3 gallon and not the 12. My plan is to get a 2.5 gallon and turn it into a (hopefully) mostly self-sustaining Walstad tank. Next Wednesday I will be getting new plants that I ordered from my LFS. One of those is dwarf hairgrass. I really want to check this plant out and think this may be a good opportunity.

So my plan is to have dwarf hairgrass be the main component of the tank with a moss wall along the back. Possibly add a bit of hygro difformis (sp) and a dwarf lily. I was researching last night and came across the included link. They (including Ms. Walstad herself) the use of carpet plants in a NPT. Apparently dwarf hairgrass sends out a chemical that inhibits the growth of other plants unless you are heavily pumping the tank with fertilizer and CO2. That is why I am apprehensive about the difformis. I think I might try it anyway. 

Also, I would float hornwort especially in the beginning.

Those of you using a soil based substrate, do you find it critical to use crushed oyster shells? Any comments, idea's, hints?

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/68991-dry-start-method-shrimp-tanks.html

This link also discusses growing HC without CO2 with success. Interesting to look over.


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

bump


----------



## MoePaac (Jun 16, 2010)

I’ve converted all my tanks to NPT’s. They are all a little different, and I wanted to share so that others can learn from my mistakes or get ideas. I encourage everyone with NPT experience to share something about their tanks. It’d be great to have a good base of information for future use.

2.5 gallon:
This was my first attempt at a NPT. It is stocked with 1 male betta, pond, and MTS’s. I did not stock this tank with enough plants in the beginning. After adding more hygro difformis and anacharis, this tank finally stabilized with the help of a few partial water changes. The soil base is Miracle Grow organic mix with a thin sand cap. There are also a few stones mixed in here and there. 1/3 of the tank is packed with the difformis and anacharis. The other 2/3 of the tank has a home-made java moss wall, pygmy chain sword, and a dwarf pond lily. There is also some floating hornwort. The plan is to let the pygmy chain run and develop a carpet. The difformis will be allowed to grow emergent for added CO2. No filter, heated, 23watt light about 5 inches above the tank. All of the plants took a while to get going, but are now doing well. No added fertilizers or chemicals besides the water conditioner when I just top off the tank from evaporation.

3 gallon:
Same organic soil base but capped with gravel. Stocked with a few stems of anacharis and a dwarf pond lily. I recently added pygmy chain sword and a banana plant that wasn’t doing too well. About half the tank is tightly packed with floating hornwort. Haven’t checked perams or ammonia levels, but shrimp have been doing fine. I am using this as a breeding tank for my RCS. It is a Marineland 3g with the filter and light that came with the tank. This is my oldest tank and the filter and biowheel are very established with good bacteria. Not heated, 6watt light.

12 gallon:
Most recent convert to NPT. Miracle Grow organic mix soil layer. The back half of the tank is capped with small gravel, the front with sand. This is my most densely planted tank with a lot of difformis, 2 bunches foxtail, 1 bunch anacharis, 2 small swords, 1 banana plant, pygmy chain swords, a marimo ball, a little bit of java moss, and 3 java ferns. This tank is primarily for my cory’s, but there are also ghost shrimp, a mystery snail, ramshorn snail, pond and MTS’s. I will also be adding a female betta. Nothing else will be added to this tank (fish wise). Filtered with an established biowheel and filter cartridge, heated, 15watt. I want to increase the watts per gallon in this tank.

Will post pictures soon.


----------



## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Nice. I'd love to see pics!

I heavily considered doing this but decided not to. I just wasnt comfortable with adding dirt to the tank and making a huge mess.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Its not as messy as you would think when done right and when you think about it.....its more like the natural habitat.....the trick is starting off the the right dirt, make the needed water changes to clear the water, cap the soil with either sand or fine gravel and most important....starting off with enough of the right type of plants....awesome tanks and after they settle and mature (3-6 months)....limited water changes because they will take care of themselves......


----------

