# First NPT



## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Hey! I am going to buy a 28 liter tank, which is about 7.4 gallons. After discovering about NPT's, I thought that this tank will be my chance to try it out. But though I think I can pretty much handle the process, I don't habe the knowledge to plan what I'll do. So, basically, Me and Felix would really appreciate it if you'll help us with planning this NPT :-D .

There are a few main things I want from the tank:

It is a 7.4 gallon tank.
I want the lighting to be LED, because it's more power efficient and Felix is becoming very expensive as it is. Someone on the forum said he has a 2.5 gal NPT running on LED, so I assume it's possible but please do correct me if I'm wrong. Does it matter if the LED is on top or submerged, and what plants will grow with the limited light?
 In the summer, the tank will be at about 28-28.2 Celsius which is 82-83F. In the winter, it'll be 26 Celsius.
 The tank will be divided, and house two bettas.

Is it possible to have an NPT with only two bettas and no snails or shrimps? Thank you!


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah NPTs are fairly simple, you can divide the 7.4g for sure. 

LED lights are limiting, but I do have a 2.5g, 2g, 6g NPT which all have LED lighting. Most low-light plants work great in NPTs, some that I can list off of my head are mosses (java moss, christmas moss, etc), water wisteria, marimo moss balls, java fern, anubias, and crypts.

Those are the plants I have in my LED NPT and they're doing great. I find some floating plants like duckweed usually die off and don't do very well in LED lighting. 

Hope that helps.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks Micho that helps a lot! Can an NPT exist without snails and shrimp? And can I add a snail or a shrimp to a 7.4 gal with two bettas? How do you get the right soil for the NPT? I searched the measurements of the tank and it's 40*26*30cm. Does it matter? What kinds of plants can I have that don't grow too rapidly? And what kind of carpet plant or bedding plant can I have ( I really want the aquarium to look like a jungle  ) Micho, it'd be great if you could post a pic of your 6 gal for some inspiration. Thank you!

Also, in a 7.4 gal with one betta can you have a small school of some fish? Oh and does your LED have a specific spectrum?

Wow that's a lot of questions :shock:


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah, you don't need shrimps or snails (but when you buy plants a lot of snails tend to hitchhike, so you'll get them regardless). 

A snail would work in the divided 7.4g, maybe a Nerite snail, good algae eater, eggs cannot be hatched in freshwater, stays relatively small. As for shrimps the cheapest shrimp I can think of are ghost shrimps, they grow quite large for shrimps, around 2" or so. Scavengers, they eat anything that gets left behind. Drop some extra pellets or get some sinking shrimp pellets for them.  Maybe 3 ~ 4 of them would be good. 

If you wanted to do a fancier shrimp I would recommend RCS, they are a dwarf shrimp, primarily known for algae eating they are actually omnivores, and scavenge like ghost shrimps. They're somewhat more expensive than ghost shrimps, and since they are so small they can be eaten by your Bettas, so there is a risk there. 

But given enough coverage they should be fine.

When choosing a soil you want to find an organic potting soil. Organic is very important, don't want any of that silly additives in there. Cap it with some sand or gravel. Maybe 1.5" of soil & 1" of sand.

Measurements of the tank doesn't matter. Slow growing plants are anubias, java fern, marimo moss balls, crypts, and mosses. They grow very slowly. Unfortunately most carpeting plants require intensive light and CO2 in the tank, you could do a moss carpet.  

My 6g isn't that great haha, just some water wisteria, java fern, anubias & moss laying here and there. Just wanted to get as many plants in there as I could. 

In a 7.4g would could do some Endlers, maybe a trio or so? With only one Betta. 

And I'm not sure about my lighting to be honest, my 2.5g is a clip on, and my 2g & 6g the lighting came with the tank.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Where can I get this organic soil, like in what kind of stores? And if I understand correctly, the LED you're using is not special for plant growth, just regular fish lighting LED? Isn't 2.5 inches is quite a lot of substare for this size of a tank? I got into NPTs mostly for the convinience, but it seems to get pretty pricy! Are there differences for the fish between an NPT and a regular planted tank?


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

And how much plants do you need in a 7.4 gal, a 5 gal and a 3.5 gal?
I'm getting hesitative. The tank alone costs 42 bucks and it has this weird hood I'll have to take care of, if I buy a special NPT substrate it's another 25 dollars, I don't have a filter or lighting, and every plant costs 4 dollars! Also, I need to make my own dividers and buy the stuff for that because apparently, dividers are non existent in my country!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IMO-the idea behind the NPT or natural planted tank-is just that...Natural...IMO/E the _natural_ is part of the beauty of these types of setups.

As close to the natural ecosystem that you can create in a closed system.
Everything needs each other...the circle of life...so-to-speak...lol...IME-one of the most important things regarding success and failure with soil based systems-Plant growth-without good plant growth the system can crash-The driving force behind plant growth is proper color temp of lights.

They don't have to be exact or perfect so much as the system having the things it needs to thrive and take care of itself to a degree. (Its still a closed system)

Just like with the nitrogen cycle-as long as the needs of the beneficial bacteria are met...everything should fall into place with little effort.

IMO-if you want a neat, tidy, organized system...a natural system may not be for you.

A natural system shouldn't cost much to setup or maintain either IMO/E-
IMO/E-the natural system is one of the lowest cost system.


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## fishkid (Jul 29, 2008)

itamag said:


> And how much plants do you need in a 7.4 gal, a 5 gal and a 3.5 gal?
> I'm getting hesitative. The tank alone costs 42 bucks and it has this weird hood I'll have to take care of, if I buy a special NPT substrate it's another 25 dollars, I don't have a filter or lighting, and every plant costs 4 dollars! Also, I need to make my own dividers and buy the stuff for that because apparently, dividers are non existent in my country!


It may seem expensive but it's a lot cheaper than the alternative, which would involve CO2 and ferts (easily $200). Materials for dividers are pretty cheap.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> IMO-the idea behind the NPT or natural planted tank-is just that...Natural...IMO/E the _natural_ is part of the beauty of these types of setups.
> 
> As close to the natural ecosystem that you can create in a closed system.
> Everything needs each other...the circle of life...so-to-speak...lol...IME-one of the most important things regarding success and failure with soil based systems-Plant growth-without good plant growth the system can crash-The driving force behind plant growth is proper color temp of lights.
> ...


So you're saying LEDs won't supply sufficient lighting? And what kind of stores sell the soil? I don't mind the lack of cleanliness at all :-D. Thank you!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I am not saying LED won't work-I haven't any personal experience with LED's and NPT's. All I can base my info on regarding LED and plants is what I have researched when I was looking to switch over to LED lights-Long story short...I couldn't afford the LED's rated for the species of plants I grow.

Soil-I like to dig mine from my yard and back pasture. I have used several different store bought potting soils and top soils that work fine too. You want to avoid soil with a lot of added ferts/chemical over and above natural ferts.

My soil based tanks are clean naturally-water is crystal clear-some mulm/debris build up around some hard scape and plants but nothing major. Even after I pull plants and get lots of dirt in the water column-within a few min the water will be clear again. Once you achieve balance within the system your water is clean enough to drink-You have both good and bad bacteria, microorganisms and other micro-critters that you can't see that keep your water clean and clear......Its all about balance......too clean from too many water changes can sometimes do more harm than good....


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> I am not saying LED won't work-I haven't any personal experience with LED's and NPT's. All I can base my info on regarding LED and plants is what I have researched when I was looking to switch over to LED lights-Long story short...I couldn't afford the LED's rated for the species of plants I grow.
> 
> Soil-I like to dig mine from my yard and back pasture. I have used several different store bought potting soils and top soils that work fine too. You want to avoid soil with a lot of added ferts/chemical over and above natural ferts.
> 
> My soil based tanks are clean naturally-water is crystal clear-some mulm/debris build up around some hard scape and plants but nothing major. Even after I pull plants and get lots of dirt in the water column-within a few min the water will be clear again. Once you achieve balance within the system your water is clean enough to drink-You have both good and bad bacteria, microorganisms and other micro-critters that you can't see that keep your water clean and clear......Its all about balance......too clean from too many water changes can sometimes do more harm than good....


If I have a yard with a few trees and some other plants, with fertilization but not chemicals that I know of, can I use the soil? Is there some way to decontaminate soil like this for aquarium use?


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

itamag said:


> If I have a yard with a few trees and some other plants, with fertilization but not chemicals that I know of, can I use the soil? Is there some way to decontaminate soil like this for aquarium use?


Hi there, sorry for the late reply.

Unfortunately since it has fertilizers in it, it cannot be used, I actually have no clue if there is a way to decontaminate the soil but you're best off finding a place where you can buy organic potting soil. 

If all fails you'll have to order it once again, but since gardening is a popular hobby in a lot of countries I'm sure you'll be able to find it somewhere.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

itamag said:


> If I have a yard with a few trees and some other plants, with fertilization but not chemicals that I know of, can I use the soil? Is there some way to decontaminate soil like this for aquarium use?


Depending on the type of fertilizer used, how long ago and how many times it has rained.....IMO/E-You might still be able to use your dirt-I would dig down at least 18 inches to harvest the soil for aquarium use.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Depending on the type of fertilizer used, how long ago and how many times it has rained.....IMO/E-You might still be able to use your dirt-I would dig down at least 18 inches to harvest the soil for aquarium use.


Thanks! I'll check that when I can. Is there a way to check if the soil's good? Like some chemicals test kit or something weird happening to a non-fitting soil?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Not sure-but you might be able to take or send a soil sample to your county ag department. In my state we have a web site that we can refer too regarding soil and soil testing....

You also could setup a 1gal jar add 1 in of your soil-then cap that with half inch of sand or gravel-add/plant a few rooted plants and a few to float along with some floating plants-place it so it get some sun in a window or outside-South or East window are best. Add some snails...Observe.....Snails have poor tolerance of most toxic substances. Be sure and have a control 1gal jar too-one without soil but with the same plants and snails sitting side-by-side....


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Thank you! I still have a few questions, if you don't mind.
Are two betta fish and one to no snails or shrimps in a 7.3 gal enoughr for an NPT? If not, what would you suggest?
What livestock would you reccomend for a 3.5 gal NPT?
What filter would you reccomend?
I've heard of fertilized tank substrate. Is it good for NPTs, and what do you think of the fluval brand's?
What amounts of plants would a 7.3 and a 3.5 gal NPTs require?

Again, thank you very much!


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

itamag said:


> Thank you! I still have a few questions, if you don't mind.
> Are two betta fish and one to no snails or shrimps in a 7.3 gal enoughr for an NPT? If not, what would you suggest?
> 
> *I'm assuming there's going to be a divider, and yes two Bettas in a 7.3 NPT will produce enough waste for a NPT.
> ...


Hope this helps.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

finnex has some smaller clip on style leds that are fairly cheap and will support plants easy enough, with leds it will always cost more up front but saves you in the long run on bulb replacement and power usage, there is also the finnex fugerays that are fairly cheap compaired to most


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Does someone have any experience with fertilized substrates? And micho, what do you mean by how I scape my tank?


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

itamag said:


> Does someone have any experience with fertilized substrates? And micho, what do you mean by how I scape my tank?


How you design your tank, you could do a jungle look and fill it up completely or aquascape to your liking and do some cool design. 

It's really up to you, therefore it's hard for us to tell you how much plants you would need.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

But basically, how many plants would you need for the system to work?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

about 70% coverage of your substrate. with most being fast growing stems


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

aokashi said:


> about 70% coverage of your substrate. with most being fast growing stems
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Okay, thank you! Is it 70% with or without flowing plants? I really have no knowledge about plants. What kinds of plants are there? What plants are fat growing?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The more fast growing stem plants the better-Its the active plant growth that helps keep the soil/water safe for the livestock. The key is active growing plants-you should need to make your first plant trim within 7-10 days of setup.

The first 3 months are the critical months and the time when the soil is maturing and starting its life underwater-The active plant growth is what keeps your water safe.

I trust my methods and have never lost any livestock-I stock my tanks the same day to no later than 24h after setup-I may or may not make water changes on a regular basis in the beginning-it depends on tank size and if I am using a filter or not, however, I do recommend at least 50% water only weekly for the first month at least-then on a as needed basis. 

Remembering-with the soil based heavy planted tanks are pretty much instant cycled. The nitrogen cycle or beneficial bacteria are already in the tank from the soil, live plants...etc.....All you have to do is maintain it and keep the bacteria healthy and thriving to colonize on every spot within the tank.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> The more fast growing stem plants the better-Its the active plant growth that helps keep the soil/water safe for the livestock. The key is active growing plants-you should need to make your first plant trim within 7-10 days of setup.
> 
> The first 3 months are the critical months and the time when the soil is maturing and starting its life underwater-The active plant growth is what keeps your water safe.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the help! What are some fast growing stem plants that can thrive with LEDs? And I didn't even know it was a possibility to set up an NPT without a filter. What water changing routine would you suggest for a 7.4gal unfiltered? Do you have any opinion on fertilized tank substrates, and do you find them equal to regular soil?


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> The more fast growing stem plants the better-Its the active plant growth that helps keep the soil/water safe for the livestock. The key is active growing plants-you should need to make your first plant trim within 7-10 days of setup.
> 
> The first 3 months are the critical months and the time when the soil is maturing and starting its life underwater-The active plant growth is what keeps your water safe.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the help! What are some fast growing stem plants that can thrive with LEDs? And I didn't even know it was a possibility to set up an NPT without a filter. What water changing routine would you suggest for a 7.4gal unfiltered? Do you have any opinion on fertilized tank substrates, and do you find them equal to regular soil? Because I'm a rookie, I'd like to keep the NPT fishless for a while to make sure nothing's wrong. How would you reccomend doing it (anything to check for, what to "feed" the tank?)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I can't say much regarding the LED lights and plant growth due to never using them....But fast growing plants for soil based systems are just about any of your stem plants-usually sold in bunches of 6-12 stems without roots. Every tank can vary on what grows best and why I recommend starting out with at least 3 different kinds of stem plants.

I don't always start out with filters and with some that I do start with filter I may or may not remove it later-once the soil is mature-This also depends on the tank size. All of my 25gal and under NPT are without filters-well...except for the plants-IMO/E active plant growth is one the best filters you can use. On my bigger tanks that I do have filters it is more for water movement than anything else.

I have only kept soil based planted tanks and so I can't help on the other substrates.

I always add my stock in the same day to within 24h of setup.

You can go fishless or livestockless in general if you wanted-Remember the plants are alive and function just as a fish would in regards to feeding the beneficial bacteria-Anything organic will hold the nitrogen cycle.

By understanding how the nitrogen cycle works and the needs of the beneficial bacteria responsible for the nitrogen cycle will help you understand and help make you feel more secure. As long as the needs are met-the BB will colonize and thrive-Just like anything living- the BB-need a place to live, food and oxygen-Supply this and all should be fine-Remember-plants produce oxygen as a by-product-this is usually enough for the BB-same with a place to live and food-most plants provide all of this for the BB...Live active growing plants=healthy, thriving, colonizing BB for the nitrogen cycle....

Water change routine for a 7.4gal unfiltered tank-this would vary depending on the setup-If its a soil based with active growing live plants-once mature-WC 3-4 times a year. If its a regular substrate with a few plants-50% weekly at least and this could vary too depending on plants and stocking...


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks! I'm much more confident about this project now! Only a few questions left haha :-D
Are there any rules to follow regarding flowing plants? Like, amount, maintenance etc.
What's the thing with stem plants and plants that need to be tied? How do you do it?
Is a filter unecessary in the setup too?
Just to be sure I'm clear, snails are not essential to clean the substrate?
If there are small snails on the plants, what should I do with them?
Do you trim plants with regular scissors? Are there any rules to follow when trimming (when, how much?)

Thank you!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IMO/E-common snails are a natural part of the soil based NPT and needed, however, they can take over and you need to manually remove them on a regular basis. IMO/E-the trumpet snail are even more important for the soil based systems since they can help prevent anaerobic soil by burrowing to bring oxygen into the soil layers.

Like with anything in a closed system-some care will be needed on a regular basis-Nothing is totally self care and if you think about it...how much fun would that be...lol....personally, I like working on my tanks-thats part of the fun.

I see a lot of post from members that want plants that stay small or don't grow fast. While that would be nice in some cases-we are dealing with living organism that grow-true, you can stunt or slow the growth-but that can have a negative impact on the plant and system IME.

If your plants are not in active growth they are not eating and if not eating the water could go bad.

I don't use anything fancy to plant, trim or care for my plants-my best or number one tool that I use is my fingers and finger nails. I plant using my finger and trim plants by pinching them. On occasion I will have to use a razor or scissors to cut the woody stems of some plants.

The natural soil based planted tank are as close to an ecosystem that you can create in a closed system IMO/E-Once mature they need very little care, however, its still a closed system and needs some care from time to time.


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## itamag (Dec 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> IMO/E-common snails are a natural part of the soil based NPT and needed, however, they can take over and you need to manually remove them on a regular basis. IMO/E-the trumpet snail are even more important for the soil based systems since they can help prevent anaerobic soil by burrowing to bring oxygen into the soil layers.
> 
> Like with anything in a closed system-some care will be needed on a regular basis-Nothing is totally self care and if you think about it...how much fun would that be...lol....personally, I like working on my tanks-thats part of the fun.
> 
> ...



So a snail is crucial for the NPT, I mean the bought snails, like the trumpet snail? If the trumpet is not avilable, what other snails can I use? I am having some doubts, and would like to hear your opinion. My tank will be divided for two bettas. Now, what will happen if say, one dies or is sick? I know about QT tanks, but what about the water? Do you need to start over when this happens? And what if some plant has a disease? 

I'm not sure if I'll change my current tank into an NPT or buy a bigger one, mainly because of two bettas being more demanding than one. What do you think? It seems to me that with more than one fish everything's harder with diseases and such.

If I have one snail and two male bettas, should I change the snail's side every once in a while?

Lastly, I would appreciate it if someone could write a basic list of plants for a 7.4gal, perferrably low light and maintenance ones. Something like a basis to go by for the first-timer, that will guide me generally for the amount and kinds of plants.

Thank you very much, you've been so helpful!


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