# Males and Females?



## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

Hay guys!

Everything I am about to post is completely hypothetical- I am not planning on doing this, it's just a thought. 

I was thinking about betta sororities and it me think about the personalities of fish. Females can be put together only if the temperate (?) is right. Both females need to be mildly tempered, and overall, a non-aggressive fish. As many people like to emphasize, some females can be as aggressive as males. But can't males ALSO be as mild as females? It's rare, I know, but it sometimes happens. If that did, would it be possible to put the male and females together? Just a thought, to get you guys thinking. 

Let me know!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Some people have kept males and females before. From what I have read, the male will choose (approx) 1-3 females he "likes" and then kill off all the rejects - That is, if the females dont kill him first. Not sure if this is true but I remember reading it on another forum from a guy who kept males with a few females...

Personally, I wouldnt do it. Would you put in two males in the same tank because you think they are "mild mannered"? They may be nice today but even bettas are subject to random bouts of anger and aggression.


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## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks! I just thought it was an interesting topic.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

About 3 males and about 60 females in a huge tank would be the best bet. Preferably if they're siblings and I'm talking a HUGE!!!!! As in like 1000 gallons (like a pond).


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

I WISH I HAD A BETTA POND! 
 oops caps, im too lazy to change it, Rofl


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## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

lol A betta pond would be awesome! But I'd have no where to put it! lol


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

A terrible idea. No responsible betta owner would ever house a male with a male or a female with a male. No responsible betta owner would house females together either unless in a closely monitored, appropriately stocked and decorated sorority situation. These fish have been selectively bred to do nothing but be efficient killers of one another for several hundred years or more--they can and will kill and seriously injure each other even in very large spaces. Don't test your luck.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I have a 300 gallon pond but it's too cold for bettas.


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## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

I wasn't planning on that! Like I said, it was hypothetical


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

i dunno eventually i am looking into building a tank with a 96 x 30 x 30 inch foot print it will be brackish and stocked with violet gobies mollies and some thing that eats mollies  mabey i will get lucky and the mollies will breed fast enough to feed the preditor. any way.

after the gobies die with a tank that size and heavy planted i would consider trying a betta mix sex tank but it would be HEAVY planted with alot of caves stocking would be 3 males and 9 - 12 fems. 

yes there would be fights and prolly some deaths but once the natural hierarchy is established there shouldn't be a problem and the numbers in theory would allow for agression to be spread out and give time for healing and the plants and caves would allow for hiding from angry others.

but i am not a betta expert so this is some thing that would need a great deal of research and time to do. and would be many many years in the future since my violet gobies could live for 10 years.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Bettas aren't wild animals--so the "what would happen in nature" type of logic is out the window with these guys. They have been extensively altered in terms of behavior from their wild ancestors by selective breeding. If you put a bunch of pit bulls or fighting roosters bred and trained to fight each other in a big field and expected them to live happily, that wouldn't go well because the same rules that would apply to chicken fowl and other domesticated dogs, for instance, don't apply to them. Your idea is great for wild types--which are still very beautiful and have all the wonderful personality of splendens. I think you should look at imbellis and smaragdina and consider those for this project.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

yeah personally i would much rather make a imbellis tank rather than a spendidis.
*DISCLAIMER I HAVE NEVER WILL NEVER BE INVOLVED IN FIGHTING ANIMALS*
on a side note. though unlike the bettas who operate on instinct compleatly roosters and dogs have a slightly higher brain function. i personally garuntee that you could if you gave plenty of hiding and territory space to roosters drop a bunch of fighting roosters in the same space. i had a boss who fought roosters and had many in the same pens.

fighting dogs are the same way yes they will fight but they will establish a pack order eventually. basically it would be like prison the toughest would rule a pack of killers scary place to be after dark.

but i agree i prolly wouldn't work out even in the above mentioned tank just due to the dicking around with the genetics and the lenght of time we have been doing it i might be impossible but given the most mild tempered of both sexes it could work.

but these are the steps nessisary to do it.

find the 50 most calmest male and 50 calmest females. 
breed them.
keep only the most docile ones.
continue breeding for docile traites.
then build 500 gallon heavy painted tank.
sacrafice a small goat.
cycle the tank with blamo-brand amonia.
once cycled wait until the 3 full moon in a month that doesn't contain an r in its name durring a full solar eclips that your have traveld to see using non restricted airmiles from a major credit card company.

then it would be garunteed to work


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

*personally i would.*

personally i would make a "peaceful betta" tank with peaceful betta breed *can't remember name atm imaldis i think.
any way

stock peaceful betta couples and gouramis would make a nice tank mabey 5 betta couples and 5 smaller gourami couples.

use a 50/50 atnic light plant with red tiger lotus and apogentis bulbs. play sand bottom and neon orange (cpo) crawdads.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Betta imbellis.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

yup that is them  thanks


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Imbellis are the same as splendens just not extensively bred for fighting but are still aggressive. 

In such a set up you'd need a ton of caves, plants surrounding caves, tons of java moss (great hiding place ;P). Even more caves, only a few males and a lot more females. I would only attempt this with sibling fish as in you breed your fish, put them in the huge tank and let them stay there. Eventually though.......they will breed. Meaning a lot of fry will get eaten but some will survive.

Keep in mind every male will need at least the area of a 2.5 gallon tank as a territory, thus the need for a large tank or pond....as big as possible, preferably over 1000 gallons for a pond.

I still wouldn't attempt this. Like Adastra said what would happen in nature dosen't apply to these fish.

Why bettas fight: They're control freaks...like major. They will fight and eventually create the alpha dominance issue....remove the alpha fish....you get a blood bath.

Leaving the male with his fry: Experminets have shown that a male betta will remain peaceful with his fry because he's the alpha fish and the fry grow up knowing this....a possiblity for this set up.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

again i never said i would try it but with the wild peaceful betta in a tank with a foot print of 8 foot by 2 1/2 foot by 2 1/2 foot tall with heavy plants and caves is what i was talking about. for a set up running 3 - 5 males with 5 - 7 fems would provide sufficient space.

when i speak of natural i don't mean all natural or as in nature. i mean natural as in if you drop a ball it obeys natural laws and falls etc.

when i speak of natural order i refer to useing wild caught fish and simulating a habitat that resembles that from which they came. honestly i would use:

almond leaves to stain the water brown *ala black water*
naturaly dense plants
floating plants
many opaque cave structures at least 3 times as many caves as fish stocked.

sad to say the stocking would be brutal  

i would establish the sororaty in a 55 gallon tank using similar materials as would be found in big tank. i would remove all but the most peaceful females. then i would at twilghlight transfer them into the main tank and immediately black it out with blankets etc so it is pitch black. leave it covered for a day then remove at night. and feed using live food despenced from one dispenser per fish in differnt areas.

the males would be put into a 10 gallon tank divided with clear divider no decorations no caves. any males who flare or attack would have to be culled. after they are calm and used to seeing the other betta and not being able to be attacked i would place them in breeding traps in the main tank. again any agression would result in removal then i would again when it was time to remove them from the nets do so and create complete darkness.

then it would be a matter of having to not care when you see half dead fish  and restocking the ones that die. you would of course have to remove any agressive acting fish from subsiquent batches but eventually prolly after a decade or more you would have a full functioning and seperate strain of peacable fish who are inclined to act more like thier fore fathers than they do now.

remember in nature most animals don't fight to the death except to defend offspring or to protect them selfs from death.

but in between then and now you are talking about a lot of hurt and dead fish which is natural cruel but the way life really is.

also i would include some gourami's to distract the bettas from each other.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I think the best method is the male with his fry. Spawn the pair (it my take a little longer than in your 10 gallon spawning tank) and then leave the male in there. As soon as fry are free swimming feed BBS and later powdered food. Keep the water extremely clean. Some will get eaten but the end result will be a large tank of males and females living peacefully with their sire.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

This is a dumb idea no matter how you shake it, in my opinion. I don't understand why someone would want to risk the lives of their fish for the sake of novelty when there are plenty of wilds out there that are able to live in colonies peacefully--what your proposing would only "work" and by work, I mean not work well enough to be considered humane after the deaths/critical injuries of many. The fish that do manage to survive will be in a very stressful environment. Many males become stressed in divided tank situations, just having another male in close proximity can cause your fish to bite himself and become vulnerable to infection. Even if the fish manage to survive each other, the stress imposed by this environment would inevitably lead to shorter lifespans and increased risk of disease. No one who cares anything about their fish would want this setup. 

I understand you're trying to be hypothetical with your suggestions, and maybe _maybe _after a lot of struggle and setbacks you might reach some kind of environmental equilibrium. I don't want someone coming into this forum and reading this and thinking it's a cool idea to try--it's not. :/ 

I get what you're trying to do by playing the devil's advocate, but I think the best role to play on a betta forum is _betta_ advocate. The goal of this forum is to promote proper care and to help people understand and appreciate their unique behavioral quirks.


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## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

Ok, I'm sorry. It was just a question, I didn't mean to start an uproar. But I'm sure anyone with sense would never try this.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Actually adastra males don't become stressed when placed next to each other because eventually they'll get used to each other and settle down.


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

lol i want to try this! But in real life... i would never. i just have one of my online ifhs tanks on facebook filled with male bettas XD closest i can get!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I keep my males next to each other and they ignore each other.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

dramaqueen said:


> I keep my males next to each other and they ignore each other.


Same here but I mix them up to get them to flare so they can get excersize...within a week they start to ignore each other.


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

I do hope you've developed more common sense in those 10 years. >_< That would be very irresponsible. If the male didn't kill the females, they would kill him. As Adastra said, these fish were specifically bred to be killers.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Yup. It's not something to mess around with...I once had a pair of red coppers together and they started spawning...next thing I know my male has no fins and breathing heavily...he died the next day.


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## toms (Sep 30, 2010)

i have male and 2 female batta in a 4ft tank with no problems and i have 2 male's in a diffrent tank with no problems . i find that as long as he tank is big they are ok .


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Bettas need room for a territory. Escape during a fight is not possible in captivity.

Here's a vid of a male and female living peacefully. I guess it worked out ok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuxK9z2n14A&feature=related


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

That tank is way too small for 2 and the water is filthy.

The male betta's fins are also very tattered, if you read in the comments one person said that the bettas could develop fin rot from stress.


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