# Very sudden case of Dropsy?



## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm just about beginning to fix up my tank and settle the mess I am currently in after my Half headed betta issue posted not long ago. With her now gone for i decided to put her down because i am not confident i can save her, i gave my last remaining female away to a friend of mine who had space to take in a fish.
she's a beginner and did quite well with the last betta i adopted off to her until she passed feeding duty to her mom, causing the fish to be over fed and somehow he died of dropsy. thats was months ago

so just yesterday i dropped My female betta off at her place, she was perfectly healthy when she was with me, eating well though the only problem with me was that she had a male chasing her around.
I added her to my friends tank straight away since the water in the carrier i placed her in was not exposed to the AC for too long in the train

just today my friend tagged me in a photo of the female i gave her..and she was showing clear signs of having Dropsy, Bloated and scales jutting out.
is it possible for a fish to reach this stage in 1 night? I'm trying to figure this out, if it is not possible, then i will defiantly know why that betta i passed to my friend has the illness. i have speculations and i do understand this is probably my fault.
i know dropsy is not really treatable, but help for this case is appreciated, as well as to possible reasons as to how the fish got the illness.


this is information about my Friends tank.
Housing 
What size is your tank? *5 gallons*
What temperature is your tank? *around 80+ F, room temp water here is 84.4F*
Does your tank have a filter? *Yes, air pump filter*
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *most probably.she uses an air pump filter*
Is your tank heated? *No, we live in a tropical country and her tank is in the living room with no AC, so the temp of the water is 84.4F as that is temp of room temp water*
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *Only one guppy, she use to live in my tank with 1 male betta and 8 other fish*

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?*Last i check yesterday it was fish food specially for bettas*
How often do you feed your betta fish? *she feeds them once a day*

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? *weekly water change*
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? *40% *
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *water conditioner*

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? *never tested before*


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *when she was with me yesterday, she was fine and eating well. now she bloated with jutting scales*
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? *not much at all when she was with me, friend said Fish swam around her tank after i left but mostly stayed at the bottom though.*
When did you start noticing the symptoms? *Was just noted this afternoon*
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?*Never treated fish with Dropsy before, but i have told her to transfer the female to another tank. *
Does your fish have any history of being ill? *no*
How old is your fish (approximately)? *roughly a year or 2*


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Dropsy is usually caused by poor water quality - sometimes fish stress as adrenals get overloaded.

You definitely can't just pop a fish into new water like that. Careful acclimation is always important. She may have been shocked and there may be bacteria in the water that the other fish are ok with but her immune system has not seen that bacteria and her immune system may also be compromised for other reasons.

To treat you will need epsom salts - pure 100% magnesium sulfate with no additives. They will need to be predissolved at a rate of 1 tsp per gallon and then poured into the tank slowly over an hour because it will reduce ph. ES is like AQ in that it never leaves the tank unless you do a water change so you only need to redose along with water changes. She'll need to be in them at least 2 weeks. I would also be looking for an internal antibotic like Kanaplex (#1 choice) maraycn plus or furan 2 (can also be used with kanaplex). Stable clean water is crucial. What size qt is she in?

What does her poop look like?


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

Isn't Dropsy incurable? i heard some place that it was. 

i'll have a look at the shop today to see if we have any of those.

she's contained in a pretty large fish bowl at the moment.
hasn't pooped at all so i can't really say.

for the Qt tank, i'm not sure how we're gonna keep the water clean though i kinda know how to change the water without shock (was linked to a thread here some time ago.)

she's at a stage where she's not eating anymore, though my friend has just updated me saying she swimming around more in the qt bowl as compared to yesterday where she was just laying on the bottom of the tank.. what are her chances at this rate?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Dropsy can be very fast moving so timing is important. Waiting several days to treat decreases her chance dramatically and exponentially. 

Dropsy is one of the more lethal conditions (actually a symptom of several illnesses) but it can be cured if you treat it fast enough and accurately. 

What size is the QT? Bowls are generally 1/2-2 gallons. It's important to be able to determine exactly how much water you have in it for treatment. Guessing is not good. You can measure it out in gallon water jugs from the store or something like that. I'd do 50% water change along with any redosing of meds (48-24 hours see the med instructions for how often) along with 100% weekly change.

You may already know this, but this is how I suggest doing large water changes:



> To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

Okay, will try treatment
they don;t have the exact names of meds you mentioned, but i found a bottle for internal bacteria at the shop and purchased the salt 

so just weekly water changes then
The bowl can hold roughly 2.5 litres of water. is that too small? cus its under a gal and we don't really have anything bigger. do we need to get a filter for it for this case?


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## SharkyTheBetta (Dec 29, 2012)

Epsom salt is really good on dropsy. I would use instead of Kanaplex Maracyn II or Maracyn plus in water and Metronidazole in food. Dropsy can be caused by a bacterial infection (gram negative) or by parasites or by unknown causes. So Metronidazole is also good approach. I hope your fish is still eating. It is said that Kanaplex is very hard on kidneys, which is the last thing you would need as dropsy may involve renal failure. If your fish doesn't eat, put the Metro also in the water, combined with Maracyn II or Maracyn Plus. Hope your fish will be ok. It is important to treat it with antibiotics as soon as possible.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

i added the antibiotics today, she's not eating at the moment D:

Whats Metro?

at the moment because i'm slightly short on funds i purchased the cheapest aquarium salt at the shop that had the word "good for fish on medication". not sure if it will pass, if not then i'll just get the $8 bottle of epsom salt then.. i'm not sure if we have any of the other things you mentioned. i only know we have epsom salt, but theres nothing else on the packaging that mentions pure 100% magnesium sulfate with no additives.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sharks maracyn ii has no chance of working and maracyn is erythromycin which is in the same class as kanaplex
But works slower and isn't as broad range or as effective

Metro is harder on fish than kanaplex actually

Aquarium salt will not help and may make things worse.. You need epsoms to treat dropsy. Also exactly what med did you buy? There are
Few which are effective internally despite their advertising


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

this was the only thing i could find at the shop that mentioned internal bacteria. they didn't have the stuff you mentioned besides epson salt (med section was pretty small). i'll have to search the other shop near by but they were closed on the day i went to purchase this.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

What does it say the ingredients are? I've never seen that before and google didn't turn up much.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

ingredients are not mentioned on the bottle. most meds i find come like this.
i'll have to search the other shops around my area to see if they actually carry anything that lists ingredients or any of the brands you guy mention once i get my paycheck.


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## SharkyTheBetta (Dec 29, 2012)

How is your your fish doing today? I was also looking about the ingredients of the med you are using, but I couldn't find anything. Fish meds can be not only expensive, but also hard to find in some countries. I also had this problem, my fish were ill and I couldn't have enough time to buy the meds online, so being desperate I simply went to drugstore (for people) and I ask for one tab of med, telling them I needed for my fish tank. I didn't have prescription, but they were very nice and gave me. And it was a lot more cheaper too. But not all meds can be found this way. For example, I was looking to buy Kanaplex (Kanamycin). First, I went to a lot of pet stores but it wasn't available anywhere, then I when to a drugstore for people where tabs were not available either, so in the end I went to a drugstore for animals were I found it. Anyway, you have to be very careful with the dosage this way and calculate it exactly for the amount of water that you have in your tank. I was calculating it twice or even more in order to be 100% sure it was right dosage. 

I think that one of the biggest problem that people have when their fish become ill is the fact that they are not prepared. So it would be very good to have at home a few most useful meds (1 tab of each is enough) for this kind of unpredictable and sad events. It will save you a lot of time.

Don't forget about the water changes. For a 2.5 liters QT you need frequent water changes. Callistra explained very well about how to do them. 

Did your fish poop in the end? If yes, how did it look like?

I didn't suggested Maracyn (Erytromycin) which is good on some gram-positive bacteria but Maracyn II (Minocycline). Anyway, there are many different approaches on dropsy, some of them suggest to use Kanaplex, while some others suggest Maracyn II, I think they are both right in some ways. Whether the med used will be successful for all cases will depend on the cause, not all cases are bacterial.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

my friend (whos fostering her at the moment) just updated me. at the moment she seems to be acting normally, water just changed today via Callistra's instructions, the the fish seems responsive. she's just ignoring the food my friend gives.

her poop is brown.









i'm heading over later to re med and add Epson salt which i purchased yesterday


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

hi guys.

my fish is really not eating D:

she's not bloated any more but the scales are still raised and we found she's got a wound on the side of her body that bleeds every few days or so.

i'm not sure what else to do anymore ):


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm sorry you can't find better meds  It would appear what you are treating with is not working.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

so the fact that she;s not really eating any more means its not really gonna work is it.

there are days she suddenly perks up all of a sudden. like today my friend just told me she's a bit more active and is darting around occasionally.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Pine coning is a sign that his organs are shutting down. The open wounds are just a sign of how vast the infection is. If you can't find some real meds you can't treat him.


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

dropping an update.

My fish seems to be doing...well 
her scales are no longer raised and her fosterer tells me the food they give her disappears from the bowl, so we suspect she's actually eating. Her wound also seems to be closing up.

Would it be advisable to continue using a bit epson salt and a few drops of what evers in that bottle of medication for a few more days to be sure she'll recover?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That's great!

How long has your fish been symptom free? I always treat a week past clear up in cases of dropsy. You might even go an extra two weeks on the epsoms, just stop meds a week past.


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## chardzard (Jan 7, 2013)

yes keep useing the epsion salt for 1 more week n dont let any uneaten food stay in her tank ur lucky the wound u saw on here side is she full with eggs if so when she get better try n get her spawn or put her on a low protien dait


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## Shepaski (Jan 3, 2013)

i think she's been symptom free for about 4 days.

I'll let my friend know.
thank you very much for the help! I think the salts the biggest factor that probably saving her at the moment. Without you help i wouldn't have known anything about Epsom salt.


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