# is beef heart good food for betta fry?



## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

so my fry are pretty big now and i was thinking of giving them something other than bbs to add to their diet i was wondering if i should give them frozen beef heart from my LFS? and if i do how do i prepare it?


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

IF you did use it (because I honestly have NO idea if ti is good or not. Though I can not see why it would not be.) I would dice it up into very small bit sized chunks and try a little bit at first see if they are interested in it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Although beef heart is often fed especially with Discus-its not always a good choice for Bettas-mainly due to water temp...its too low and to keep Bettas at the needed water temp (85+F) to fed beef heart.... can shorten their life span....occasional feeding in small amounts probably wouldn't cause too much trouble in a fry tank if you are keeping the water temp at/over 85F-however, I wouldn't recommend keeping Betta fry at that temp long term....

I would do some research on how fish metabolize Beef heart to get a better understanding of the risk-vs-benefits.....

I would make a shrimp based food for them-I make a pretty good homemade food for my Bettas and other species of fish I keep that has worked well for me.....


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

I gave them some beef heart earlier, I tried to break into real small chunks.. they ate some of it.. the bits were still kinda big but the larger fry were able to eat it.. a bad thing apparently because when I went to go check on them a few hours later to find my BIGGEST fry dead ;( i guess he was the biggest and was able to eat the most of it and ate too much, saw him upside down at the bottom dead .. i guess he may have eaten a little too much being the biggest one and all.. errr so sad ;( he was a giant among the others.. ahhh im stickin' to bbs from now on!


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

:-?


Oldfishlady said:


> Although beef heart is often fed especially with Discus-its not always a good choice for Bettas-mainly due to water temp...its too low and to keep Bettas at the needed water temp (85+F) to fed beef heart.... can shorten their life span....occasional feeding in small amounts probably wouldn't cause too much trouble in a fry tank if you are keeping the water temp at/over 85F-however, I wouldn't recommend keeping Betta fry at that temp long term....
> 
> I would do some research on how fish metabolize Beef heart to get a better understanding of the risk-vs-benefits.....
> 
> I would make a shrimp based food for them-I make a pretty good homemade food for my Bettas and other species of fish I keep that has worked well for me.....


When you say shorten their lifespan do you mean the the beefheart will do that or keeping the water at 85F?


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm confused by your post OFL .. admittedly not hard to do, but I don't understand what the water temp has to do with feeding it to them?


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

cajunamy said:


> I'm confused by your post OFL .. admittedly not hard to do, but I don't understand what the water temp has to do with feeding it to them?


i'm not sure but i think it has something to do with their metabolism.. the higher the heat the faster their digestive system works and they will poop and grow faster from what i've read..


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok - but what does it have to do with the beef heart exactly?j

eta: ok I see what she's saying now, but why does beef heart need to be fed at a lower temp?


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

She said beef heart needs to be fed at a higher temperature (85+ degrees) but that it isn't good to keep bettas or fry in that temperature range for too long since it's too warm for their comfort.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Beef heart is fairly low in fat, however, since it comes from a warm blooded animal-this type of fat is hard for fish to digest/process- especially at lower water temps....high water temps needed for the Betta to properly digest/process mammal fats also can shorten the Betta life span......

The type of fats and long term high water temps-both can adversely affect longevity.....

Long term high temp-speed metabolism and this in turn can shorten longevity in fish...water temp, metabolism, fats, digestion go hand in hand...if the temp is too low to properly digest the fat-it can adversely effect the fish-fatty liver disease, obesity, immunity, weakness, poor growth...etc.....fish(cold blooded) generally process/digest their foods in the 70-80F ranges-warm blooded animals process/digest food in the 85-100F range

Feed very, very small amounts by making a paste out of it and make a water change after feeding it since it will foul the water really fast.....

Personally, I wouldn't recommend feeding beef heart to Bettas.....


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

gotcha - that's where I was confused, the temp thing.


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Beef heart is fairly low in fat, however, since it comes from a warm blooded animal-this type of fat is hard for fish to digest/process- especially at lower water temps....high water temps needed for the Betta to properly digest/process mammal fats also can shorten the Betta life span......
> 
> The type of fats and long term high water temps-both can adversely affect longevity.....
> 
> ...


yea... it sounds like more trouble than its worth.... i guess i'm gonna toss it out. but the only reason i was trying it was because i heard it boosted growth rate and since some ppl on youtube were saying my fry were so small.. i just wanted a way to boost their growth somehow.. do you have any advice on that OFL? all i been feeding them is bbs... i ordered a grindal worm culture but accidently friggin killed it within a few days.. err


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Are you feeding the BBS newly hatched with their yolk sac intact...if not, once they absorb their yolk sac they have very little nutrition and the fry will not grow well and you can have twirling and sudden death problems....either only feed newly hatched BBS or supplement them with a HUFA supplement before you feed them....I use Silcon that I get at Dr Foster and Smith...HUFA saltwater supplement (brine shrimp are saltwater)

Be sure to change the water daily at least 50%-water temp in the 80=81F range.....


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

When growing out my bettas I use 30 gallons heated to 90F and I feed twice a day with frozen bloodworm once they reach 1/2 inch. As they got to the 6 week mark I feed twice a day with Atison Betta Pro (best betta food). So a mix if the two foods, high temps, large tanks, and VERY frequent water changes has been a successful method for me.

Temps....I only advise high temps for the growout of bettas...I find mid 70s to low 80s to be ideal for adults and young fry.


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

OOoh didn't think of raising temps for growing out ... that's what I need to do in addition to what I'm doing now then to put some growth on these guys


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

icic.. what are your opinions on grindal worms?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Mohan85 said:


> icic.. what are your opinions on grindal worms?


 I've heard they are good but a great growth food is black worms...disgusting and require a a rinse of cold water everyday but worth it.


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Are you feeding the BBS newly hatched with their yolk sac intact...if not, once they absorb their yolk sac they have very little nutrition and the fry will not grow well and you can have twirling and sudden death problems....either only feed newly hatched BBS or supplement them with a HUFA supplement before you feed them....I use Silcon that I get at Dr Foster and Smith...HUFA saltwater supplement (brine shrimp are saltwater)
> 
> Be sure to change the water daily at least 50%-water temp in the 80=81F range.....


How many hours do I have before the bbs yolk sac disappears? And what do you think about grindal worms? Thanks!


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

MrVampire181 said:


> I've heard they are good but a great growth food is black worms...disgusting and require a a rinse of cold water everyday but worth it.


Interesting.. is the black worm culture easy to take care of? I hate worms but I want my fish to grow!!!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

This varies with water temp...the first molt is 24-30ish hours after hatch...usually you can look at them and tell...they should look orange/pinkish and after they molt they will look more brown

Research the life cycle of the BBS-this will help you understand a lot more

I keep 2 hatcheries going about 24-28h apart-so I always have yolk sac BBS...really important for that first 4 weeks of growth and development...

Be sure and rinse the BBS really good under running water-you don't need dechlorinated water to rinse them either.......the water that they hatch in is loaded with bad bacteria and along with this bad bacteria and high temps-you can get out breaks of diseases and parasites like velvet....big killer of fry

If you are careful-you can harvest the BBS without the shells too...remember-after the first molt you will have twice as many shells...the shells of the BBS is what can cause a lot of problems for the fry too.....you can see buoyancy problems and sometimes death when they eat too many BBS shells....sometimes the buoyancy problems will resolve and sometimes not.....

If your area is dry or low humidity and/or the air temp is cooler than the water....cover the top of the fry tank with something like plastic veggie wrap to help retain heat and humidity for the labyrinth organ...really important....the labyrinth start to develop between 2-5 weeks of age and that first breath of air needs to be moist and warm-otherwise you can see buoyancy problems, early death, general health immune response issues....they can catch kinda like a cold....fishy cold...lol....some breeders will even refer to it as pneumonia and this can be deadly.....

Once the fry are roughly 6-8 weeks of age-you are on the road to success.....its that first 6-8 weeks that so many things can go wrong.....

I don't feed grindal worms......I fed white worms at one point-but they are really too high in fat and a hassle to culture for me....so I stick to NBBS, HUFA supplemented BBS, mosquito larva, infusoria, daphnia, other microorganism and my homemade food....I don't use a strict schedule on what, when...etc.....I feed....since it varies from season to season.....


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Mohan85 said:


> Interesting.. is the black worm culture easy to take care of? I hate worms but I want my fish to grow!!!


They require being rinsed once a day in cold water. But my most successful spawns recently were fed nothing but BBS and Atison Betta Pro. My growth to adult size takes about 3 the months but I was lazy at the beginning of those spawns so more like 2 1/2 months for me.


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> This varies with water temp...the first molt is 24-30ish hours after hatch...usually you can look at them and tell...they should look orange/pinkish and after they molt they will look more brown
> 
> Research the life cycle of the BBS-this will help you understand a lot more
> 
> ...


Thanks OFL, always some good advice.


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

MrVampire181 said:


> They require being rinsed once a day in cold water. But my most successful spawns recently were fed nothing but BBS and Atison Betta Pro. My growth to adult size takes about 3 the months but I was lazy at the beginning of those spawns so more like 2 1/2 months for me.


Thanks Vamp, Gotta find me some of that atison betta pro!


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Mohan85 said:


> Thanks Vamp, Gotta find me some of that atison betta pro!


sooo apparently they don't make atison's betta pro food anymore... i tried searching online and it says san francisco bay brands bought the company and stopped making the food.... bummer...


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

you can find it on the IBC website. You don't have to be a member to buy it. That's where I got mine.


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

Beefheart is fine as an occasional treat for betta fry over 1/2 inch. It is important to make the pieces small enough for the fish. Betta fry can easily choke on foods that are too large for them.


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Dragonlady said:


> Beefheart is fine as an occasional treat for betta fry over 1/2 inch. It is important to make the pieces small enough for the fish. Betta fry can easily choke on foods that are too large for them.


wow that must've been it.. when i fed beefheart to them just this one time.. i ended up with a dead baby.. one of the big ones too.. he must've choked on it when i thought he over ate. cuz i was kinda noob and didn't really kno how to prepare the beefheart and some pieces might've been too big.. ahh oh well.. lesson learned


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oldfishlady, If you don't mind me asking, could you please tell me about this homemade food you feed your fry? I don't have too much fry food and want to try and get some more??


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## Mohan85 (Aug 27, 2011)

Gloria said:


> oldfishlady, If you don't mind me asking, could you please tell me about this homemade food you feed your fry? I don't have too much fry food and want to try and get some more??


I second that, I am also interested in OFL's fry feed recipe


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Since you should only use human grade food items to start....you can saute it and put it on pasta...yumm and you can have lunch with your Betta...laffs......

When I make it...it varies each time...depending on what I have since I grow my own spinach and garlic and garlic cloves can vary in size as can the spinach leaves...lol.....
Generally..
Shrimp- 1 large raw/frozen or steamed (no added salt or other additives) and I smash this up with the side of a knife....
Garlic-I use 3-5 cloves depending on the size...I crush in a garlic press...roughly half the amount of the shrimp
Spinach-4-6 leaves..blanched-roughly equal amount of the garlic

I blanch the spinach and while still hot I smash it with the garlic and add the shrimp and smash it all together with the side of my knife on a cutting board....it should look green...a green garlicky shrimpy paste

I then feed some and then place the rest in a zip-lock and press out flat and freeze and break off what I need each day to feed....I use the side of my knife and work it and this will thaw it enough to feed......

You are what you eat....the spinach is the greens that are inside the food Bettas eat...like being gut loaded....shrimp the protein and long term (6 weeks+) fresh raw garlic can help with parasites, help build a strong immune response among other things....

I feed this food twice daily to all fish and inverts...I have also used raw fish filet, red worms in place of shrimp and one day I plan to use the meat from common snail...but haven't got around to doing it...lol..... __________________


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## Noemi (Jul 9, 2011)

would that food be ok for fry, or just for adults?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I feed it to all the adults and juvies and to the fry after about 3 weeks of age..

When I break off a piece that is frozen...I use the side of a dull knife and smash or work it some-this gets it defrosted and with some of my adults...I do my feeding tap and feed it to them from the tip of the dull knife and in the tanks with a lot of fish....after I have smashed/worked it with the dull knife-I will swish the knife that is covered with the food in the water....


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