# Killer King Betta - No Success on Eggs



## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

I have put up a thread last time about eggs. Every time I breed my bettas they have eggs, but then sometimes the male doesn't want to take care of them. Or he'll take care of the first batch, but as soon as the female has a second, he loses interest and the female takes care of them until he chases her away. Then, the eggs just sit at the bottom of the tank, and he goes around and eats them.

I find it hard getting males that are interested in taking care of the eggs. I was going to try this time that as soon as the female produces the first batch, and the male begins to take care of them to just take her out so he won't be distracted. Because although I don't have female-egg-eaters, they will do the male's job for him, I find the females to be a distraction.

So, I got a male king betta now. The last males I tried to breed that were failures was one crowntail and one red veiltail. The king betta is a little frightening to try because he tore the stomach out of one of my females even though he had made a bubble nest and was ready for her. I tried to condition him and another female again for two weeks (yes, I kept them separate with her in a tube in the tank for two weeks). I kept the water clean. I put them together some moments ago and watched, and he chased her around nipped her lightly (normal behavior), but as soon as I saw him grasp her belly in his mouth and tug, I took her out. I don't want what happened to my last female to be a repeat.

It was horrific glancing over at the tank and seeing the last female I tried to breed him with (crowntail), floating around with her insides all over the bottom of the tank. I feel that the King Bettas are an entirely different fish that can't be breed like normal male bettas. Maybe he's too strong and he needs a king female even though I heard of crowntail and veiltail females having been successfully breed with one. My female is doing better after I saved her. She wasn't hurt, but yeah, I don't want to put her back in if belly-ripping is all he likes to do.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

When you condition the bettas you don't keep them in the same aquarium, even if they were separate. Conditioning is a process where you make sure they are healthy and give them lots of nutritious foods to prepare for breeding. Two weeks is too long to keep the female in with the male. The two weeks are spent *separate*, then they are put together once conditioned.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Either your female is very small or your king is huge because no king I've ever seen could take that big of a chunk out of a fish. In any event I would not attempt breeding a fish that aggressive. Maybe you should look for a pair from a breeder.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

What fry food do you have?


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

... that picture wasn't necessary, there are younger kids on this forum... >.<


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Bettafish15 is right. This is a friendly family forum, I suggest removing it. Not trying to be rude but that photo could be traumatizing to some people.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Yeah, if you can, remove it. Im going to have a mod do so. We have young ones on here :c Next time, do not post the pic directly at the least, instead opt to have it on a hosting site and warn them strictly. Even then, though...

Im sorry this happened. Please reconsider breeding...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

If your king did that with one bite, your female must be very small. He doesn't sound mean/vicious but male bettas do bite females and one bite from a gigantic male can do a lot of damage to the female. Make sure your female is fully grown.

Large type bettas are known to be .... piggy (?). They would eat, eat and always eat. Though males usually fast during breeding, feed your king (to be on the safe side). 

If he is vicious, either exercise him for a long time (don't use one sparring partner because it might stress them out - or use a mirror) OR float some females in the tank (not the one you want to breed). When he has calmed down then float the female you wanna breed (make sure she wants to breed). After an hour or so, take out the others in intervals of 10 - 20 minutes. Observe their behavior after the breeding pair is alone. Then release the female once you think they are ready. The whole process may take a week. But it's safer for the female.

Good luck.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*turtle10*: Oh, because when I read on other sites they always said to put the female in a hurricane lamp in the same tank as the male so he can always see her. Then, he will make a bubble nest, and it said something like keep them like that for two weeks, but thanks for clarifying.

*1fish2fish*: She was pretty small, but not "very" small. The second female I put with him is full-grown, but I was afraid he would have killed her the same way.

*turtle10*: Hikari Tropical - First Bites - it was recommended by Pet Smart.

*bettafish15*: Sorry, I forgot children hang on the Internet. I grew up at a time before the internet existed and so I fancy kids would be out playing and elsewhere. I wasn't on the Internet until I was about 8th grade and beginning high school.

*turtle10*: Again sorry.

*PewPewPew*: Now that I know that graphic pics of dead fish isn't acceptable, it won't happen again, but I was just proving that I wasn't lying about my King Betta taking a chunk out of the female.

*indjo*: Well, since my female is full-grown, she's the biggest female I got and has successfully breed with a crowntail male (though as I stated, he wouldn't take care of the eggs), I'll give her another try. If she lives, I'll have some good news to share. If she dies, then I I'll let you know. As I said, I won't post pics of dead fish ever again. But yeah, I'll try again even though it bothers me to think about it. I don't want to have to flush another fish! ><"


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

You definitely need to do more research, and not listen to petco. I can pretty much guarantee that if you try to raise them on first bites they will die.

Betta fry need live infusoria, live baby brine shrimp, live worms (micro, white, etc), and other live foods. They won't eat the first bites anyways.

Please do not breed them again until you know what you are doing. I suggest researching for a few more months and then trying.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Its fine, I just wanted to get it off of here, because I was a little gyaahhh about it, and know others would be too. I believe you that you didnt mean it and Im glad you know now.

Btw- NEVER FLUSH A FISH, NOT EVER! It is often against local law and isnt good for the water/waste systems. Opt instead to bury the fish or place it in a plastic bag and dispose of it in the garbage. Never throw it in a body of water, either. 
Just letting you know- this can be very bad for local fish populations and whatnot..


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*turtle10*: Personally, dude, I think you learn about breeding betta on experience (since every betta pair is different). You can read all the textbooks you want, but trying to breed is the only way you learn, and you learn from your mistakes as I am now. If the betta babies didn't like the fish food I got them, then I would have used infusoria and gotten live brine shrimp from Petco. You shouldn't be telling people to "never breed again." I don't appreciate your advice and I won't take it. So thanks for nothing.

By the way, I haven't achieved the egg-hatching stage yet because if you read what I said, the eggs have never been able to hatch because the males won't take care of them. So I am working with my males to get them to take care of the eggs so that they will hatch, and I'll go from there.

*PewPewPew*: I'll probably use the plastic bag method since I think cats would dig up the corpse if I buried it.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Eeeaassyy..I wouldnt pick fights with Turtle, nor anyone on this particular forum section, just because we as a site are very concerned with the proper methods to keep fish their safest and happiest. I must disagree with your statement to an extent. If you have questions, members like Monroe, Mr.Vampire, Martinismommy, chard, beat and many others have been breeding for quite a while. Im sure they will help you via pm when and if they can.

And that's a good idea.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> You shouldn't be telling people to "never breed again." I don't appreciate your advice and I won't take it. So thanks for nothing.


Turtle10 did _not_ say to never breed again, just to read up more first. I found your reply rather rude, even though I am not Turtle10.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*PewPewPew*: Just because a person is experienced at something doesn't mean you have to bend over if they are being rude to you. If he read what I said and didn't assume what wasn't written, then maybe I wouldn't find his delivery rude. I took offense to it obviously, so I don't see any reason for this to be carried out. If any other experienced betta breeders want to give advice, then they should learn to do so in a kind manner. Otherwise, I'm not going to care what job, occupation, age, or status you are. I'm not going to take it.

*bettafish15*: Oh really? I found what turtle10 to be _rather rude_. What a coincidence.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well now your just being snippy :/ people dont mean to come off as rude, they just want whats best for your fish. Some on the forum care for the fish _more_ than people's feelings, and it shows sometimes.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Dude. Go on another site and ask the same questions. You want rude? Youre gonna get it.

Turtle's very blunt. But theyre right.

You dont like it? _Get off the internet_.

For your sake, I hope this dies quick. Look up what members did to jchristian4 when he didnt listen and was snippy. And then look at his fish. Theyre not doing so hot. I think one or two have died. And hey! So have yours. So.

Who's wrong on this one?

Just stop now...Ugh. If you dont want advice or cant take it, then why are you here? :/

Die, thread, die!


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

PewPewPew said:


> Eeeaassyy..I wouldnt pick fights with Turtle, nor anyone on this particular forum section, just because we as a site are very concerned with the proper methods to keep fish their safest and happiest. I must disagree with your statement to an extent. If you have questions, members like Monroe, Mr.Vampire, Martinismommy, chard, beat and many others have been breeding for quite a while. Im sure they will help you via pm when and if they can.
> 
> And that's a good idea.


LOL I'm so flattered! I really haven't been breeding that long... BUT I have had many failed spawn attempts to give advice from hah. Thankfully I've never had a spawn get violent the OP's did. There are a few tidbits that are helpful knowing before breeding to keep the fish and fry safe. Then you can experiment all you want with introduction method, tank set up, etc. However, you should have the generally accepted information on stand by.. like the fry food (BBS, VE, and microworms). There's a good website that goes through the basics. You can read over it and then pick and choose which method is best for you. I found them the easiest to learn new information from that could actually be applied easily as well. Good luck with future spawns!

http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855

For the record, the forum members are still on the defense from a completely ignorant person trying to breed a while back (I believe he's still trying...). So if the comment seemed rude, it was probably because of that.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't think turtle was being rude (he did say please after all), I think he's just a very blunt person
I'm not a breeder myself, but I've been reading enough on this site to know that infusoria can take weeks to prepare, and the brine shrimp need to be freshly hatched (betta fry are tiny) which involves getting eggs and hatching them yourself. which means by the time either were ready, your fry would be dead
there are definitely some things you can only really learn by doing, but that doesn't mean you should just walk in blind


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

monroe0704 said:


> LOL I'm so flattered! I really haven't been breeding that long... BUT I have had many failed spawn attempts to give advice from hah. Thankfully I've never had a spawn get violent the OP's did. There are a few tidbits that are helpful knowing before breeding to keep the fish and fry safe. Then you can experiment all you want with introduction method, tank set up, etc. However, you should have the generally accepted information on stand by.. like the fry food (BBS, VE, and microworms). There's a good website that goes through the basics. You can read over it and then pick and choose which method is best for you. I found them the easiest to learn new information from that could actually be applied easily as well. Good luck with future spawns!
> 
> http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855
> 
> For the record, the forum members are still on the defense from a completely ignorant person trying to breed a while back (I believe he's still trying...). So if the comment seemed rude, it was probably because of that.



Heeeeee, maybe not filed as one of the "quite" a whiles, but you've taken good measure to learn and I respect that ;-)


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*PewPewPew*: If you weren't so adamant on having the last word, then this subject would have been over. I know how to handle myself online, but I try not to rude for the hell of it, especially when someone isn't deliberately being rude to me. However, I do return the quantity of respect when it's given. So if I get none, then I give none back. I find you are being very immature and disrespectful by continuing this, that is the only fish that has ever died. My betta fish are happy and healthy. Please don't be ignorant and assume what you don't know about me or my fish. I do not care how much you like turtle10. If you no longer enjoy this conversation, then stop typing in it. You are doing nothing but drawing it out. So please don't be a troll, PewPewPew.

*Tisia*: I never said I didn't read. I read as much as the internet offered on betta care, and I learned as much as I can about bettas through raising them from experience. My bettas are happy, and now I want to learn breeding. This is where I am now. Betta fish may die, eggs may die, nothing is ever perfect on the first round. I mastered the egg laying, but I am trying to get the *male bettas to actually take care of their eggs*. That is where I am now. If they manage to do that, then I will move on from there.

There is no reason to talk about fry care because I haven't asked any questions about fry or how to take care of fry. That was random and irrelevant of turtle10 to bring into this thread. If I need help with fry care, then I will ask. Right now, I don't need Betta Bible Thumpers being on me because they think I don't know what I'm doing when there hasn't been a fry situation yet.

*PewPewPew*: I doubt your quote has anything to deal with me since I never asked a betta fry question. I warn you again Pew, if you continue to troll me and this thread, I will report you to a moderator.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

dude, chill out. they're trying to help you out, but are just making sure you're prepared for the fry and stuff! no need to get so rude at them. they're VERY helpful people, you just gotta listen to what they say. don't be rude to them, or they'll be rude right back. no one's trolling you at all, so just chill out. :/

as for your male, he may just be too aggressive to breed. it's common in bettas, for either gender to be too aggressive. all you can do, is try out what was suggested here, and if he still proves to be too aggressive, he's not a breedable betta. 

also, i wouldn't take advice from Petco employees. not all of them are that knowledgeable about betta care nor breeding.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Dude, Im not trolling you at all. Trust me, this is not me trolling. I was, like the others, trying to help you out. 

But...Because you think Im immature already..
_
Come at me, bro!_

And Im not sure what your last directed quote at me is about. The monroe thing? How is that trolling? I was offering you people's usernames that might be able to answer questions if you have them. My bad, d00d. Just was trying to give you resources you might not have had considering you're a new member. You wouldnt know they're breeders otherwise. S0rry br0ski!

*Also, if you're so ready to go to the mods, please be warned that the multiple curses you've inserted into various comments are specifically against forum rules and can be considered as a reason to remove you from the site if a member feels it needs to be shown to a mod. We have young members here and it is very important that our language is clean in order to protect them.*


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*Luimeril*: If that was true Luimeril, then I doubt the conversation would have come this far. I accepted and appreciated the advice before turtle10's last remark. Also, to prove another point about "assumed information that doesn't exist," I said I had got the advice from *PetSmart* not Petco. I had also read "online" as was suggested of me that betta babies WILL eat Hikari and some LOVE eating it. That is the only reason I was going to try it out. If they don't like it as was said, then they don't like it.

If I ever get to the hatch stage, then I'll get some lettuce and brew some infusoria and make a makeshift hatchery for the brine shrimp for next time. If I have any questions or issues with fry, then I will be sure to ask, but that was not what I asked.

*PewPewPew*: Curses? I felt that I have been very clean with how I was writing. In fact, there isn't a "curse" in anything I said at all. There is, however, southern metaphor, but if that's not aloud, then I shall be cleaner with my speech and not use any metaphors. I'll even use heck, but I don't need your advice PewPewPew. You haven't done anything to make me desire it. You might be a nice person but you haven't proved it. I was cool with you at first, but you ruined it. First impression gone. So if you want this issue to end, then let it go. I don't want your help. Is that clear enough because I can't make it any clearer. I have already received advice on the problem that had been before, and that was all I was looking for. This doesn't need to continue. If I have anymore questions I'll ask.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

he brought up taking care of fry because it's something you should know before you ever get to that point. otherwise you're just going to end up killing possibly hundreds of them for no purpose.
and I don't understand why you'd take the advice of a pet store employee that may have never even owned a betta, over people who have owned and been breeding them for years


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

my HMPK dragon girl was hesitant to eat the new Life Spectrum Grow pellets i fed her, and she was a month old when i got her. she survived the first few days with me by nibbling those(i had to crush them, she was so tiny, and the pellets are like sand. THAT is why they say they may not eat the Hikari ones), and the infusoria from her Java Moss. i used a picnic tea pitcher with a spout on the bottom, like in this pic, to hatch my BBS:
http://image.shutterstock.com/displ...ut-glass-and-tablespoon-wiht-mix-12061573.jpg

it's not hard, nor expensive to hatch them. you don't need a fancy hatcher, either.

oops. x_X sorry for getting the store name wrong.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> *Luimeril*: If that was true Luimeril, then I doubt the conversation would have come this far. I accepted and appreciated the advice before turtle10's last remark. Also, to prove another point about "assumed information that doesn't exist," I said I had got the advice from *PetSmart* not Petco. I had also read "online" as was suggested of me that betta babies WILL eat Hikari and some LOVE eating it. That is the only reason I was going to try it out. If they don't like it as was said, then they don't like it.
> 
> If I ever get to the hatch stage, then I'll get some lettuce and brew some infusoria and make a makeshift hatchery for the brine shrimp for next time. If I have any questions or issues with fry, then I will be sure to ask, but that was not what I asked.
> 
> *PewPewPew*: Curses? I felt that I have been very clean with how I was writing. In fact, there isn't a "curse" in anything I said at all. There is, however, southern metaphor, but if that's not aloud, then I shall be cleaner with my speech and not use any metaphors. I'll even use heck, but I don't need your advice PewPewPew. You haven't done anything to make me desire it. You might be a nice person but you haven't proved it. I was cool with you at first, but you ruined it. First impression gone. So if you want this issue to end, then let it go. I don't want your help. Is that clear enough because I can't make it any clearer. I have already received advice on the problem that had been before, and that was all I was looking for. This doesn't need to continue. If I have anymore questions I'll ask.


Words like "hell", etc. are not to be used on the forum, so I guess not. I don't know what you mean by "southern metaphor", but I'll take your word for it.

And yeah, I am a nice gal. I'm super nice, in fact. Just look at my niceness. Im wonderful. And my advice is often quite sound; I am not a breeder but I have not offered you any breeding specific advice. I do know how to take care of fish, many plants and cure a number of diseases. Im a pretty cool dude. And I have a horse.
And again, you're on a forum, you put out information. People are going to give you more advice than you asked. We had another member who did just what you did, whined, and they got nothing from it. *People will continue to post on this until you cease posting, I promise you this. I know this because Ive seen it many times.* Want it over? Then you stop. They'll stop. I'll stop. It'll be a stopfest of stop in the best way.

I'll let this die when it needs to die. Im not going to leave because you told me to. Boooo. You've perked my interest, I like it. Me gustaaaa <3

And the reason I wanted it to end was for your sake, so that (this) wouldnt happen. So that you wouldnt have to defend yourself. *So that this would all end for you and you could be on your way. *

AND LOL. OH NOES WE GOT PET*SMART* AND PET*CO* CONFUSED NOOO.

People do read, but this is trivial.

And hey dude. You need my advice on that stuff if you wish to stay on the site. You apparently dont know the site rules, so s000rry br0ski for helping you out and whatnot.

Cheers ;-)


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*Tisia*: Because I have taken the advice of online websites before about what they thought was the proper size tank for a betta fish to live in, and I have seen my betta fish (my current ones) not even enjoy a 10 gal tank. I placed them in a smaller 2 gal, and they love it. It's different for one of my females, who actually explores the tank but there you go. That is why I'm willing to experiment with things that are often bashed because it depends on the personalities of the fish and what they like. They are picky and selective fish when it comes to food and also their space. I have every right to try different things. I have always been that kind of person. Example: If I think a movie is good despite its reviews, then I will go to the movie and find out. If it was good, then I thought it was good and that is all that matters. If it was bad, then the critics were right. But I can personally say it is bad because I've seen it. The same thing is going to happen with breeding bettas. It is how you develop experience.

*Luimeril*: Well, I only saw the hatcher that was made from a water bottle. They cut a hole in the top for the sponge filter, and then put the brine shrimp eggs in the hole they had cut in the bottom of it (bottle was inverted). With the air pump on, they just hatch a bunch of shrimp. My sister who was into raising mollies would put the brine shrimp eggs in a simple glass of water and they would hatch no problem. "By reading online," I thought the air pump was necessary. If it's not, then I won't make a makeshift betta hatchery.

*PewPewPew*: Ignored.


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

So since I just got some advice today about it, I'll address the issue of the male caring for the eggs. My male ate the whole nest overnight. His breeder hasn't had an egg eater ever so she suggested that since it was their first spawn, the eggs might not have been fertilized. So the male helped himself... Maybe this was the case w your males? The topic has gotten way off though so I'm not sure what you're looking for lol. I was assured that the next time I breed the same pair, they'll be much better at embracing and therefore produce fertilized eggs.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> *PewPewPew*: Ignored.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Win! <3  You just mad because Im so nice. Again, look at all this niceness.

Try not to hurt them too bad. I really hope you learn something useful and take advantage of what many dont have.

And I know you read that and this. Keekee. Ignored <3 Oh, a new fav thing to say.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

oh, the air pump is needed to keep the bbs alive! i used the hole in the top of the tea pitcher, and ran the air tube through it, then used that, also, to get the shrimp out(i got shrimpy salt water in my mouth every day. xD gross!). Chappy adored those more than her pellets, though. many on here also use viniger eels, but i've never used those. Chappy was my first and only fry, and i didn't breed her myself. i was surprised by her, in a bag that i thought only had Red Cherry Shrimp and Java moss in it! she was a gift, and a month old when i got her.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Resistance only make me like it more! 







Oh geez. Its jchristian all over again. Here come the gifs.

Anyway, again, in all seriousness, I wish you well, wish away your ignorance and arrogance, and hope that whatever you've set out to do works out for you in the end~


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

PewPewPew said:


> Eeeaassyy..I wouldnt pick fights with Turtle, nor anyone on this particular forum section, just because we as a site are very concerned with the proper methods to keep fish their safest and happiest. I must disagree with your statement to an extent. If you have questions, members like Monroe, Mr.Vampire, Martinismommy, chard, beat and many others have been breeding for quite a while. Im sure they will help you via pm when and if they can.
> 
> And that's a good idea.


You forgot to add 1fish2fish. And PLEASE no more arguing!:-(


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> You forgot to add 1fish2fish. And PLEASE no more arguing!:-(


Oh, crud. I knew I was forgetting someone important. Sorry, 1fish2fish.

And Im done, as far as its concerned. I just hate when this happens. My bad(ish), DQ <3


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> You forgot to add 1fish2fish. And PLEASE no more arguing!:-(


No worries, we are all overflowing with niceness! *throws flower petals around*


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*monroe0704*: It might be. I have seen them embrace and shed eggs, but he took care of the first batch though. As I said before, I'm going to try and take the female out as soon as he starts taking care of them to see what happens. The first time, I thought that after the first few batches, one of those batches had to be fertile. But I guess none of them were. But I only thought he ate them because he refused to take care of them and they had laid on the bottom of the tank too long. I tried before to remove the eggs and artificially hatch them, but because they haven't been fertilized they never did.

*Luimeril*: Ah, okay, I didn't see the air pump. All I saw was the sweet tea pitcher, and I was thinking, "What he uses a sweet tea pitcher?" lol


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

x3 i'm a she, and yes i did. :d it was hard, and annoying, but it worked. >3>


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Alright this isn't a mod but I'm putting on the hat until I have a chance to report everyone.

A bunch of y'all are acting like babies..including the OP. Ever since JC everyone has been hop on the new breeder crazy. No one has ANY right to typecast a new member based on the actions of an old one. 

OP.. if you're familiar with online social situations than I'm sure you realize that being new to a forum means you have to earn credibility. No one is going to automatically assume you know what your doing (especially if you come on asking questions in your first post). Also arguing with members shows bad character IMO (which I'm sure you don't care to have). Be the bigger person and let it go and if you feel an injustice is being done report it to a mod immediately.

As far as your question. In my experience most males will take care of fry. If yours are not I will assume that 1) they aren't being well enough conditioned 2) they are too old to be breeding or 3) you need to find a different source for your breeding fish. It could be that they are not producing viable eggs and it's possible your male could be sterile.




Now.. In the words of the immortal Forrest Gump "That's all I have to say about that".

Good night everybody.


Edit.. whoops.. I take too long to type apparently. :-? But I stand by what I said. Arguing is silly and it grates my nerves. I don't mean to offend anyone but grr. Threads like this constantly get pushed up for no reason but for people to exchange gifs and argue.. let's leave that for off topic please.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Are we back on topic and done arguing now?? I hope so!!


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

My bettas spawned for over 6 hrs and several of the times they embraced and shed eggs, they both just ate them... So I don't think taking the female out early is that necessary. I'm sure some of the times they embrace they'd actually put the eggs in the nest...

Of course first time spawners are silly and don't really know how to get the job done XD

Edit: Sorry 1fish! I was typing when you posted LOL...


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## tokala (Feb 20, 2011)

Careful about "learning with experience" when it comes to animals- it can be deadly. They don't have a voice, and it is arrogant to think we (not you, but all of our fellow humans) have the power to do what ever we feel like regardless of whether or not it is right. Saying "if I mess up this time, I will do it better the next" is just lazy and a lack of research. Animals will get hurt in the process. If we choose to be pet owners we take on an innate responsibility to do right by them. I'm not trying to jump on you, just a little soap box of mine I guess  Either way, what ever you learn and try again next time, I hope it goes well!


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*dramaqueen*: I hope so as well.

*1fish2fish*: I'm not familiar with the abbreviation "OP" at least not what it means on a non-gaming site or non-military view, but I assume it means me. As I said, I give respect when it's due. If it doesn't come, then it doesn't come and those who don't give it shouldn't expect it. People can think of me as they want. Either way, I only come on here to ask questions and that is all.

Well, I don't know the age of the fish since I bought my crowntail from Walmart, my one brown female from Petsmart, and all my other fish from Petco I believe (bought them from all over). I thought about trying to order them online, but I didn't trust it. So I never did. I didn't like the idea of my fish arriving through the mail, imagining how risky it is. 

I do suspect that the crowntail is old. He was the second male I tried to breed with. The first one, had his bubble nest broken when the female ran about and he never rebuilt it. So when she had eggs he had nowhere to put them and I tried artificially raising those only to find out he didn't fertilize them. I was going to try him again perhaps later.

*tokala*: Well, I haven't managed to hatch anything yet, so until I manage to, then I'll know what I need to do next. I don't want to have brine shrimp waiting and never have any fry because they could never hatch. The brine shrimp would die and be wasted. If fry manage to hatch, then I learn that one of my bettas is fertile, and I'll do what I can with what I got to raise them. Of course, I wasn't planning to have them on Hikari first bites throughout the duration of their growth. That is just crazy.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

OP means "Original Poster"


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Most pet store bettas are pretty old and may have hidden ailments at the same time. The majority will advise you not to breed these genetic grab bags lol.

All of my bettas were bought online and shipped. It can get pricy but it's not as risky as it seems  especially w the warmer weather!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think most people here who have ordered online have ordered from AquaBid and as far as I know, have never had a problem.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

"OP" is the original poster, you- yes.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*monroe0704*: I'll give it a try when I'm not in a dorm. I have 5 fish here (3 males and 2 females), and I got six tanks. My room looks like an aquarium. I'm going to keep these bettas for as long as they live, and when they die, I'll either A) invest in non-petstore fish, or B) buy fancy goldfish because I love them and think they're adorable.

*dramaqueen*: I saw AquaBid, but I don't know. I just wasn't sure about it since I haven't heard anything about it until now. I thought that by buying fish from the pet stores, I was kind of saving them from having to be in a cup until they die of disease. I hate seeing fish in cups, and I dislike even more how the personnel walk by, see the fish dying, and don't even change the water or do anything about it.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> I thought that by buying fish from the pet stores, I was kind of saving them from having to be in a cup until they die of disease. I hate seeing fish in cups, and I dislike even more how the personnel walk by, see the fish dying, and don't even change the water or do anything about it.


I hate to be the one to tell you this, but when you buy a betta that is kept in poor conditions it's like telling the owner of the store "oh hey, I can do this and still get their money" you know? Another betta will take its place :/


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Make sure your dorm will allow you a large enough tank for goldfish to live properly in, they need large tanks. Mine doesnt allow them because they need such big ones and carry too many gallons.
Just a thought, considering theyre expensive and you wouldnt want to buy and not be able to keep them.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I know how you feel. My Petsmart does a pretty decent job taking care of their fish.There is a girl there who seems to be more conscienscious about changing the bettas' water, feeding, etc.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*dramaqueen*: I was almost tempted to put the manager at the Petco near me on the spot because the aquarium personnel clean, feed, and make sure all the other fish are healthy and presentable in their tanks. You go over to the betta section and see all these cups with bettas dying in them. What is so hard about changing water in a cup? Also, what is so hard about feeding them? What is stopping you from making your bettas look presentable? I wanted to grab one of the cups where I saw this one crowntail had died from some disease that had crippled him in a strange inverted "Z" pattern. I wanted to hold the cup to his face and ask him in all seriousness: "Do you really think I want to buy this?" And then just leave the cup there for him to think about an answer as I storm out. I love the youtube video someone made about the fish in Walmart, but oh well, I digress. This is off-topic. Thanks for the advice, and I'm glad the previous issue ended.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I am too!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sorry about all the arguing.I take pride in this being a friendly forum but it sure doesn't look friendly tonight!


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Shipping isn't really that dangerous. They're shipped to the stores you're buying them from. I've gotten a fish from aqua bid and he arrived just fine. You just have to read the feedback for the breeders, much like eBay, to make sure there haven't been issues.

This past week 1fish2fish sent me a baby female and she arrived just peachy. I always pay for overnight though. I'd be nervous about shipping priority mail. They usually send them with heat packs so they don't get too cold but I think the pack only lasts 24 hours.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*vaygirl*: I looked at aquabid, and I honestly don't like paying for a $20+ fish when I can get cheaper ones that last the same amount of years. But that's just my opinion.

So, my King Betta and Veiltail Female (the adult one I said I paired with him earlier) had a spawn a few moments ago, and all he did was eat the eggs as soon as they were spawned. Thus, no egg-hatching success once again. Almost all my males, but one because he is young and I don't have a female small enough for him to wrap around (besides the one that got gutted) are failures.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

It can be expensive. The reason breeders here do it is because you can get the genetic history of your fish and have a better chance of knowing what the outcome of a spawn will be. Plus some people breed to IBC standards and they're just not always gonna find them at a pet store. Almost all my fish came from Petco though, so I can go either way.  There are some truly stunning fish at AB. Still, I love my Petco babies.


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## YoshesMom (Mar 15, 2011)

I see not wanting to pay 20+ for a fish thats why I dont have any from aquabid but im also not breeding if I were to breed I would want to start off with the best fish possible hence I would most likely buy from aguabid its like breeding dogs a mute and a mute breed will always make another mutt you get what you pay for


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*YoshesMom*: I would never breed with $20+ fish from aquabid if I have never breed before because if they die or something goes wrong, then you will have spent $20+ for nothing. I think if I had a decent job that paid me like a government worker, then I would pay for a fish off aquabid because $40 bucks for a Halfmoon won't be much to me. But Petco sells different breed bettas, so I think I'll stick to the store fish despite their "supposed quality." It's easier to save an oppressed fish for $4 and nurse him or her back to health than to buy an expensive fish, and when or if it dies, you'll only be thinking about how much you spent on it. I rather not think about how much I spent on my fish. But that's my opinion on AB.

I'm going to take a break from breeding. It was fun to attempt, but I just don't have the right fish for it. This forum kind of turned me off to it as well because of the previous and unnecessary attack. I'll start over after this semester concludes. We'll see if I'm still into bettas. I might be into the fancy goldfish or buying Pacus because I think they are pretty awesome.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> *turtle10*: Personally, dude, I think you learn about breeding betta on experience (since every betta pair is different). You can read all the textbooks you want, but trying to breed is the only way you learn, and you learn from your mistakes as I am now. If the betta babies didn't like the fish food I got them, then I would have used infusoria and gotten live brine shrimp from Petco. You shouldn't be telling people to "never breed again." I don't appreciate your advice and I won't take it. So thanks for nothing.
> 
> By the way, I haven't achieved the egg-hatching stage yet because if you read what I said, the eggs have never been able to hatch because the males won't take care of them. So I am working with my males to get them to take care of the eggs so that they will hatch, and I'll go from there.
> 
> *PewPewPew*: I'll probably use the plastic bag method since I think cats would dig up the corpse if I buried it.


I didn't say "never breed again". I said not to breed again until you have done the proper research. Yes trying to breed is the only way to truly learn and gain experience, but you have to have the right equipment and foods to start off with. Hikari first bites is not going to cut it, sorry. I am really not trying to be rude or anything, I am just trying to give you info to help keep your fish alive, but you really shouldn't "just go from there". It is very important to have all the food ready to go when breeding

Here are some great breeding links and info on fry food:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=51144
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30005
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=65791
http://www.bettatalk.com/breeding_bettas.htm
http://www.bettatalk.com/rearing_the_fry.htm


EDIT: Came in too late sorry, I was still on page 3.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

We're getting off topic, again.
I also got 2 fish from 1fish2fish and they arrived safe and sound due to the great packing job Jackie did. They both ate a pellet later that night when I offered it to them.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

dramaqueen said:


> We're getting off topic, again.
> I also got 2 fish from 1fish2fish and they arrived safe and sound due to the great packing job Jackie did. They both ate a pellet later that night when I offered it to them.


I know I went back and edited my post saying I came in too late. Sorry


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

I am going to say this one last time. So be sure to read this closely since I'm not sure you even tried before. The topic of this forum is: *Killer King Betta - No Success on Eggs*. People who had read what I had wrote helped me with the Killer King Betta portion, but there is no helping me with males that won't take care of the eggs once they spawn. My males (except one because I haven't had a female to mate with him yet) do not take care of their eggs. If you do not have any advice on how to make the male bettas take care of the eggs, then I am not going to care about anything you say.

I didn't ask a question on fry. I asked a question on *eggs*. As what happened last night with my current problem being unanswered, the King Betta ate the eggs as soon as they spawned. I do not have female-egg-eaters. If you cannot stay on topic, and give any sort of advice or perhaps if you've experienced this problem - what you did, then do not post irrelevant advice here. I won't care, I won't read it, and I won't take your advice because it has nothing to do with my current problem.

As I said, I am not going to worry about fry because I have not got to the hatching stage. My betta males have these problems and so I won't be there for awhile. If you don't like that, then get over it. Stop posting here. I'm not taking advice on fry care. Let me say that again, I'm not taking advice on fry care. *I'm not taking advice on fry care.* I hope that is clear.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

So I found the answers I was looking for after searching Google and saw on *Yahoo! Answers* (of all places) experienced Betta Breeders explaining that the reason why my males are acting the way they are is because: 1) They are either too old and frail to take care of the eggs (which is untrue since my crowntail male took care of the first batch, but when they had a second batch he stopped taking care of them - also perhaps the female helping him put the eggs in the nest, discouraged him from taking care of the eggs), 2) The male is inexperienced and I am to try them again later (thus this explained why my king betta ate the eggs instead of took care of them). As for the bubble nest breaking incident, I can't say much about my roommate's male betta since he didn't get a real chance to show how good of a father he really is.

Now, I recommend that this forum have a stickied section for common betta behavior (problems) during breeding. That way questions like: "Why is my male eating the eggs?" "Why isn't my male taking care of the eggs?" and other problems, another I saw "Why is my female eating her eggs?" Or "Why is my female laying eggs without the male and then eating them?" can be answered. You guys are so concrete and straight by the books as you collect your research from "other" betta-raising sites, but as far as when it comes to experience when problems arise, not many of you could assist me with my problem because you didn't know anything about it. Instead, you talked about fry, which wasn't a part of the question.

I will give some props to *monroe0704* for hinting at the age being a problem, but I don't think there should be any distinction between "store bettas" and "aquabid bettas" because they all come from breeders.

Another good question: "My male's bubble nest broke and the eggs fell to the bottom of the tank. What should I do?" Artificially raise the eggs. Someone helped me in the past when I asked that question, and a thread explaining how to properly raise eggs artificially would be nice. Perhaps I'm not seeing these threads? But I didn't see them stickied at the top.

It was just funny how someone earlier in the discussion was claiming that there were so many experienced breeders on here yet none of them could answer those two simple questions I had. Instead, this thread was about everything but my male bettas' behavior. But any who, I hope that helps improve this section. Betta breeding is never flawless. Problems can arise. Just because you haven't had any problems doesn't mean they don't happen. If you were inexperienced in that area, then not posting to this thread would have been the best thing. I would have rather had people who have had these problems before assist me, than to go off on tangents about raising fry.

I won't be getting back into breeding until the end of the semester. I want my females and males to rest for awhile and heal. If I have any questions, I'll be sure to ask, or heck, I might just ask Google since I didn't get much help here.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think that part of the problem here is that members who have never bred their bettas (and therefore, don't have experience) are answering questions.Or trying to. We do have experienced breeders here but maybe they were reluctant to post since this thread has turned so nasty.I try to let the more experienced members answer questions since I've never bred bettas before. All I know is what I've read in books and on here. I have to agree with you, people who don't have experience with whatever problem a poster is having shouldn't try to answer the question. Every situation is different and what works for one person may not work for someone else.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i've had a month-old fry shipped to me, priority, and she's thriving. it wasn't my choice to have her shipped, i wasn't expecting it at all, but she arrived to me, happy, healthy, but a tad hungry.

when i start my dalmatian line, i'm gonna hafta get two pairs shipped to me. i'd rather not, but it's impossible to find orange dalmatian Halfmoons and Halfmoon Plakats here in the states in pet stores. >3>;

but, it's up to you. just keep an eye out on how the fish look before hand, make sure there's no tumors, spots that could become tumors, or horrid dips in the head/bent spines, and i say why not breed them? :d


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*dramaqueen*: Well, I'm just saying, I have every right to feel disappointed and slightly angry because I was criticized for talking to a PetSmart representative because that guy I spoke to didn't know anything about bettas as stated by a supposedly "experienced betta breeder" on this site. I came here like a customer in a pet/aquarium store, and I asked about my male bettas' behavior. All the experienced betta breeders on this site, at that moment, were now like that PetSmart representative, someone who is supposedly experienced in fish care. Before the thread even became nasty, only one question was answered, but not many knew how to answer the others. They gave me random and irrelevant answers. Bravo. You just became like that PetSmart representative; that guy you (rhetorically speaking not really saying "you" dramaqueen since it obviously wasn't you who said that to me) said didn't know anything about betta fish. It's just "wow." Some people look at themselves pretty high up there.

And then, people trying to discourage me from breeding and claiming that I don't know how to take care of my fish and that my fish are unhappy when they don't even know what I got going here. I don't really care to share because I want them focused on answering my questions and not talking about something as irrelevant as "fry care."

This site is trying to promote the beauty and fun of raising bettas yet all I got was people trying to make me feel like I'm some murderer or I don't know what I'm doing when I've had these bettas since December. They are happy fish, and I love seeing their different personalities because my Red VT is the most pickiest of them all. I even talked about this site with my friends and everyone's reactions to my questions, and they pretty much said I shouldn't have even bothered to ask my questions here. I might have been happier to avoid betta zealots because more than likely they would make you feel disappointed, angry, and make you feel like you don't know what you're doing.

I haven't got a chance to really "do" anything yet because I was trying to figure out my males' behavior. But seriously, I am very disappointed because I was so interested in bettas before I came here. Now I feel turned off to it. I feel so turned off that I feel like giving my betta fish away to the others in my dorm. I have a few interested friends that would gladly take one of them.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

many on here have been given false information from the fish people at many pet stores, namely Petsmart and Petco. that's why they often say "don't listen to the employees at Petsmart/co", because not all of them know what they're talking about. they'll tell you about how they had a male and female living in a too-small tank, and they were happy and played "tag" alot, when we all know that they weren't happy and weren't playing at all.

as for fry care, that's VERY important. it may not seem like it, since you haven't gotten past the spawning stage, but you do need to be prepared in advance for any fry you get. that's why they ask you questions, like if you have fry food, or how big your grow out tank is, or if you have jars ready for when the fry get older. it's better to know the stuff beforehand, instead of being ill-prepared when it does happen.

i'm really sorry you've had such a bad experience on here. the people here are actually very nice people, the nicest you'll find, in my opinion. they just want to make sure you're ready for anything, i'm sure.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

No one meant to discourage you from keeping bettas, enjoy your little guys!


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*Luimeril*: As I stated above, they were no different than the PetSmart representatives they criticise.

You're missing the point. I didn't ask about Fry Care. I never asked about Fry Care. I'm not saying it's not important. I said I didn't ask about it. You don't ask how to do this math problem and someone tells you how to prepare for a math exam when the current problem is the math problem. My current problem was my males' behavior. Not Fry. Why was that difficult to understand? Why is that still dfficult to understand?

That is why I said I didn't care nor was I going to care about what people said about fry care because that wasn't my question. If you don't answer peoples' questions, you frustrate them. Try to focus on sticking to the point of the topic, the point of what people ask. If they ask to know other things, then go from there. Avoiding their questions all together to talk about something they never asked about will lead to harassment and negativity. 

I beg to differ. Despite that they must speak within the rules of the site and not curse or show any form of direct attack on another member, it is very easy to see uncivil behavior. So I'm sorry I don't agree with you. Maybe if my question had been about "fry care" I would have seen something different, but it wasn't.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm very sorry about all this. It shouldn't have happened. Not all info provided by petstore employees is garbage. I have run into several knowledgeable people at my Petsmart. I'm very sorry that this experience has turned you off to bettas. I had someone on another forum to criticize me a couple of years ago about the size of the containers I was keeping my fish in.I had them in gallon containers and I was told by someone who later became a mod there that I was abusing my fish. That kind of crap is unnecessary.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

well, i saw many suggest reasons your male may be so aggressive. o.o it was just all lost in the arguing. some suggested you may be conditioning him wrong(not saying you are!), some suggested giving him other outlets for his energy, ect. x-X 

either way, i hope you can get a good spawn from him. Kings, though, confuse me. is he a Plakat king, or a Crowntail king?

dramaqueen: i've had that happen to me on another forum, too. that's why i stopped posting my fish there. x-X it sucks when you're attacked like that, even though your fish are happy and healthy. :/


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*dramaqueen*: Yes, you can see that whole "10 gallon tank vs. 1-2 gallon tank" arguments all over youtube and any other discussion forum about fish. It all depends on what your fish prefer to me. My fish didn't like the ten gallons since he hung out near the top of the tank any way. They're shallow water fish. If he wants to swim down, I'm sure he prefers to swim down a few inches and not a foot. He also prefers easy access to the surface. I wouldn't even fill a ten gallon tank with ten gallons. It would only be filled up 1 to 2 gallons and its length to allow my fish more room. For one fish though, I find that a waste of space. But some people only get 10 gallons when they put other fish in there. I don't put other fish with my betta. He's territorial and enjoys his space and knowing how much of it he has.

*Luimeril*: Plakat King. Yes, I felt the King Bettas are strange when it comes to behavior. He is actually very smart. When the female was hiding behind the plant, he figured out how to move the plant to get to her. He is also one of those fish that can jump from one tank into the next if you don't put a lid on it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't have anything with mine, either. Bettas are solitary fish and do not get lonely or want "friends". IMO all it does is stress them out to have tankmates.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm trying to stay off this thread because I thoroughly don't agree what's going on here but I would like to throw out one tidbit of information.

King bettas are no different genetically from a normal sized betta. They are just bred to be large. What makes kings large is entirely separate from what makes a Giant betta. They also do not exhibit different behavior patterns from normal splendens so if yours is it is atypical.

The fact that your fish showed that much aggression is worrisome to me and personally I would not breed a fish that aggressive.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> The topic of this forum is: *Killer King Betta - No Success on Eggs*. People who had read what I had wrote helped me with the Killer King Betta portion, _*but there is no helping me with males that won't take care of the eggs once they spawn.*_


When I got back to this thread, everyone was arguing. So I stayed away and will most likely stay away from such threads. 

I didn't realize you were expecting an explanation about males not caring for his eggs..... I know you've found the answer else where, but here is mine (which most people don't like to hear)....

Some males are simply BAD fathers and are very difficult to breed. Further;
1. The eggs might not have been fertilized.
2. The male may not be healthy enough - needs conditioning
3. The male is an egg eater and will always be an egg eater thus *you must artificially hatch the eggs *(take out both male and female once spawning is complete). 
How to artificially hatch - read http://www.bettafish.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=629852 "raising spawn section".

*My method*: move eggs slowly into a bowl with about 2 cm water. Make sure the water is ideal (temp and everything). Try to keep the eggs apart (not bunched into one). Don't worry about the ones that sink. You can add anti fungus if you want (I don't - because I only want the stronger ones to hatch). (*If eggs were fertilized*) In a day or two, they will hatch. Remove the bad eggs (fungus). Add more water - 2 cm or so (Do this daily until there are no more bad eggs or dead fry). My success rate is between 60 - 90 %) 

*Warning*: IMO parents will pass on behavioral aspects to offspring. Thus your offspring may become future egg eaters.



> *Another good question: "My male's bubble nest broke and the eggs fell to the bottom of the tank. What should I do?" *


The bubble nest will always eventually pop. How long they last depends on the thickness of the water surface. If you use an air pump, they won't last too long. 

If the male isn't taking care of his eggs, there's nothing you can do but hope for the best - hope that eggs/fry can survive on their own.
........................

I hope I've answered all of your questions.... Good luck in your future breeding.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*indjo*: This was very helpful. Thank you. I will remember to try and artificially raise them next time. I did it the first time, but they must not have been fertilized because they never hatched or even developed. That was with my roommate's male. My King Betta is, indeed, the egg eater. If I'm lucky, I can get to the eggs that fall to the bottom, but at the time, because I felt as soon as they hit the bottom, they're kind of done for because they become exposed to any bad bacteria that might be down there (despite me trying to siphon the poop out as much as I can). My King Betta poops a ton. But yeah, I'll pick this up when the semester is over - so sometime in May. I'll be home, and I'll be able to move around better. I want my female to rest.

I do have one more question because it was a thought I just had at this moment. When my other female, she's a brown VT, had babies, she had over 100 and then she deflated. So she's no longer bloated. My Green, Blue, Black VT female (the one who breed with the King and the Crowntail) is still bloated. She didn't spawn a lot of eggs. The first time with the Crowntail, she spawned about maybe 30 before she ran dry and began popping one every few embraces. With the King, she spawned some. I didn't see because they mated when I went out for food. When I came back, there were about three eggs that had made it to the bottom. I don't know how many she had because the King Betta eats eggs. But my question is: *Is it okay for her to still be bloated? What will happen to the eggs still inside her?*

Oh yeah, you're link doesn't go to the thread you specified just to put that out there.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

If they're not fully spawning they're probably not conditoned enough. Conditioning is essential to good spawning. What is your conditioning process?

The eggs she didn't drop will either be reabsorbed or she'll drop and eat them.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry about the link. I may know about bettas, but when it comes to comp.... that's a totally different story.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about whether the female is still bloated or not. Like us, these fish have different form - some thin and long while others are shorter and fat (or at least they look shorter). If a female is never bred, they will either release unfertilized eggs or absorb them (like 1f2f said). So are left over eggs if the spawning was never completed. Again, nothing to be concerned about. But I do agree that they should be properly conditioned with nutritious food.

I don't know what triggers egg eating. Most egg eaters I've had remained egg eaters most of the time. But I had some that didn't always eat their eggs. So I'd give them a second chance and see what happens. Try to use a more natural set up - with lots of plants. Try not to disturb them too much and make sure the area above the nest is always covered with something dark.

Regular bettas won't eat all the eggs at once so you can still artificially hatch the remaining eggs. But I'm not sure about kings. *I have never siphoned/netted eggs out while they are spawning*. I always had eggs left in the nest and scooped them out. So I'm not sure that will work. Oh, you don't have to worry about eggs hitting gunk. Just try to keep the floor as clean as possible.

This is only a suggestion, *I have never tried this*. If your betta immediately eats the eggs upon their release, you won't have much left (if you use the king). You can try using very shallow water (about 2 - 4" of water). Place a mesh or something on the tank floor - below the nest. So when eggs are released, the pair can't get to them. After they're done remove the parents and the mesh and hope for the best. 

Good luck with what ever method you decide to use.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

I will confess that I didn't have the right food to condition them with. I would have got live blood worms to do it, but I never did since I'm at a university with no form of transportation to the pet store and back (I'm lucky if I can get my friends to take me). I thought I could have tried increasing their feedings, but I guess it's not the same as live feed because of all the juicy protein.

I had an accident some time ago. When I said I had stopped trying to breed, I was changing the tank water of my crowntail, and I had accidentally put him in the same tank as my female. I had forgot I put her in there because for a few weeks, I didn't have any fish in that tank. I thought I had put her in the tank next to it, but apparently I didn't. I even thought I put the male in the tank next to it. So I cleaned his tank and then when I was going to get him, I saw that he was the only one in there. And I thought, "Oh, well he can stay in there then." The female was hiding!

So for a whole day the male and the female were together. I woke up the next morning (and I think this was Friday) and my roommate told me if I was planning to try to breed the crowntail and the VT again, and that is when it hit me. I got out of bed and went to the tank and saw them both in there. He had made an impressive bubble nest, but I didn't want her breeding anymore. So I immediately took him out and put him into the tank next to it (as I thought I had done). What I didn't realize until just some moments ago was that she was badly injured. My tank didn't have a light so when I checked to see if she was harmed all I saw was her damaged fins. She was also swimming okay. But today, I found her having crashed like a plane at the bottom of the tank. Her belly had been ripped out.

I have two belly-ripping males. She's not even a small female. She was my largest and he still was able to rip her tummy out. This wasn't my King Betta, but my crowntail. Or who knows, when I had her with the King Betta, he could have just softened her up with his bites and when the Crowntail nipped her, he actually damaged her.

I got one female left, but yeah, I am not going to breed her with the Crowntail or the King Betta in the future. Those two are done. I plan to give them away to some students in my dorm because I can't believe how aggressive they are. If I do plan to try and breed again, I am going to be more prepared. As I said, when I'm back home I'll have my car and can get everything I need. I have a Petco down the street that I'll get some live feed from.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

be careful who you give them to. since they're so aggressive, they might get the bright idea to.... do some very bad things with them. >.>; not saying they will, but some people are like that.

i've very sorry that happened to your female. D: i've honestly never heard of bettas doing that. those two must be super aggressive, then. D: single-fish-only tanks for them.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

I do have them all in separate tanks. I had six fish, and I think ever since the first female died, I had this one extra tank with nothing going on in it. I think it just messed up my routine. Well, the one owner I was going to give my crowntail to has had a betta before and she came to me asking for one since her last one just died. She had him for most of her college experience. So, I'm sure he'll be fine with her. I don't know who will want the King Betta though. He's not as appealing as the crowntail, and someone would have to like big fish because his name is "Big Boy" for a reason. My roommate calls him, "Bull." lol


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

what i meant was, no community tanks for those two. sorry if it wasn't clear.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh, I don't put other fish with my fish. If I'm going to have a community tank, it'll be a tank with "0" bettas. I wouldn't even put a female in there. My first female was a very aggressive female. She wouldn't be able to get along with anything.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sorry about both of your females.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

I know! It's crazy. I really was planning for her to be alone and happy until I finished school, and then this happens. I have no more pretty females lol. I'm not hating on the last one I got. It's just she's doo-doo brown. I had selected her from the store because she had the vertical bars and she's successfully given birth and had no issues with the males. If I do plan to breed again later, it will be with her and my nice red VT. He's a very gentle male from what I've seen. He's so good that the female can swim around him just fine without feeling scared. Of course, he'll do the peck and chase, but he's not a violent male really. He's very pretty too. He's crimson with gold scales speckled about. And he has these pretty gold-coin eyes. My roommate doesn't like him because when I bought him he was suffering fin rot from inside his cup. I didn't know much about fin rot then. I only chose him because he chose me by flaring at me and doing a dance. But his fins are still long and he's pretty. So who cares what my roommate says -_-


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

hey, my favorite betta is 'doo-doo' brown! LOL she's a HMPK dragon, but marbled away her shiny green-blue scales. you never know what the brown ones'll produce. :3


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## reaper0325 (Nov 23, 2010)

Enough with the bickering!
It is the nature of siamese fighting fish to quarrel, and it is the nature of human beings to love.

I am a talented ;-) noob breeder from south-east Asia. I use none but egg yolk and vinegar eels, but I grow my fry healthy. 

Now, about breeding, my advise is use Indian Almond Leaves. It makes even the most aggressive males believe that it is time for breeding and raising young.

Also, isolate both male and female 2 weeks before breeding. Don't let them see other fishes. Let them see each other only for about a minute each day. Be sure that there is also Indian almond leaves in the container where you isolate them.

As with the egg eating, just let them finish what they're doing. You might think that all the eggs are eaten, but just leave the male with his nest. After two days, check and there might be fry in the under the bubbles. In one spawn, I was certain that the male wasn’t picking up the eggs, and the female was eating them from the tank bottom. But I just left the male with his nest, and after 2 days, I was surprised to see scores of little tails hanging from the surface. 

Once again, isolation and Indian almond leaves. 50% guaranteed to set your fighter in the mood. 

Love and peace to everyone!


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

*Luimeril*: lol I'll take your word for it.

*reaper0325*: Oh yeah, I forgot all about the egg yolk. I saw that being used before. I just didn't think about it. I'll take your advice. Indian Almond Leaves only cost $2.55. But yeah, after the semester ends. This is my last semester and I have one last project. I want to get out of this blasted university!


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## reaper0325 (Nov 23, 2010)

Another tip to avoid egg eating:

Cover the aquarium with a dark cloth. This prevents the fishes from seeing what ever is happening out of the aquarium. A person who comes close to the glass might spook the fish. The fish might think that the person looking very close at the nest is predator. It might eat the eggs to reuse the protein for future spawning. 



Provide a hole in the cloth where you can peep every once in a while to check on your female. Don’t make the hole too obvious to avoid disturbing the pair.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry about your fish. Hope you have better luck on your next attempt.


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

My crowntail was just given to a happy, new owner. He will be missed. I feel awkward going from six fish to three (with all my empty tanks everywhere). It will be hard giving away my King Betta since not many people want King Bettas (except for breeding "giant" versions of their fish). If he wasn't so violent, I might have used him for something pretty. I just don't know whether I should or not. So far, I had two people tell me to give him another chance in the future, and then another saying not to because he's too wild and aggressive.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

PewPewPew said:


> And I have a horse.


Dude! You have a horse?! Awesome.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

grinsinthedark said:


> My crowntail was just given to a happy, new owner. He will be missed. I feel awkward going from six fish to three (with all my empty tanks everywhere). It will be hard giving away my King Betta since not many people want King Bettas (except for breeding "giant" versions of their fish). If he wasn't so violent, I might have used him for something pretty. I just don't know whether I should or not. So far, I had two people tell me to give him another chance in the future, and then another saying not to because he's too wild and aggressive.


Perhaps when he gets older he will be more suited to breeding.  In the meantime I think it would be a good idea to get him a big, roomy tank (if he doesn't already have one, that is) so he can get some exercise. They say exercise is good for reducing aggression.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I have a king too. He's not terribly aggressive but then I've never had him with another fish. You could keep him as a pet, maybe. Is he aggressive towards people? I mean, mine jumps at food but it's only scary because he's such a high jumper and always afraid he'll come flying out. What's his people temperament like?


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## grinsinthedark (Mar 2, 2011)

He loves people. If you go near the tank, he'll go up to the glass and wiggle around in front of you. 'Gets excited when you wiggle your fingers at him. There's nothing wrong with him, and I might keep him because I don't think anyone will really want him. I've also given him several names. I just can't stick with one lol.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO you should keep your king. Aggressiveness can be.... over come (?). Look at your accident, the regular male did almost the same..... it's their nature. If handled properly, they won't be that vicious. Further, as they get older, they become more calm (though often only a bit).

Try this: Keep him in a sorority... I'm serious! First keep the females floating (preferably 4 and +). Then after a few days - after he had calm down, release them. If he feels no threat, he will be the "referee" between the females. I have often done this and it reduces aggressiveness. Oh be sure to use large enough pumps in the tank to avoid spawning.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

He would need a very large tank though. He may not have room for that big of a tank.


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