# Female Betta Sororities.



## dramaqueen

*Female Betta Sororities.*




It is fairly well known that male betas cannot live together however, female bettas can live together under the right conditions. Here are a few things you need to consider before setting up a "sorority" tank, a community of female bettas.

*Tank size- *The tank you house your females in shouldn’t be any smaller than 10 gallons. 20 gallon long tanks work very well. A larger tank gives the girls more room to move around and also gives you room for plenty of plants, hiding/getaway places and decorations such as small terra cotta pots, bridges and castles. You can use either real or fake plants. The tank should be cycled, filtered and heated. 

*Number of females-* Females can be as aggressive as males. The more females you have spreads out the aggression. It is not a good idea to have only two females together as this will cause one to beat up on the other and it could result in the death of one or both of the females. It is also not recommended to have less than 4 females. Six or more is better. Be careful not to overstock your tank. 

*Adding your females- *Add the least aggressive females first. Two to three can be added at a time. Opinions differ on the size of the females. Some say that it’s best to house similarly sized betas in a sorority tank and others say it doesn’t make any difference. 

*Aggression- *Some aggression is normal. There will be some nipping and chasing as they establish a pecking order. One female will become the “alpha” or dominant female. If you remove them for any reason, then rearrange the plants and décor, they will reestablish their territories. If a female is being overly aggressive and it doesn’t slow down after a few days, remove her. After a few days of “time out” you can try adding her back into the tank. If she continues her aggressive behavior toward the others, she will have to be put in her own tank.
Each female betta has her own personality and some will do well in a sorority setting and some will not. After adding your females to the tank, you’ll want to keep a close eye on them. You’ll want to do this when you are home so you can remove a problem female or remove and treat an injured one if needed.


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## misstephaniexxx

this is a great post!!


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## Maryrox247

Thank you SO MUCH! this helped me so much!


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## Jupiter

Great post Dramaqueen! :thumbsup:


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## dramaqueen

Thanks, guys!


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## doggyhog

Great post!!!!!!!!


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## dr2b

Awesome post DQ!


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## InsideTheBurg

Thank you! Gives me a great starting point. Great post idea.


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## Vikki81207

Yeah, great post! Gives me some more pointers for when I eventually start a sorority.


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## dramaqueen

Thanks everyone!


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## Kim

Great post! You covered it all really well


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## dramaqueen

Thanks, Kim!


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## Jazattackk

This is very helpful, because people are always asking questions about females living together


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## ChristinaRoss

im so glad that some of my experiences with my sorority could help with this post dramaqueen. cool.


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## dramaqueen

Thanks to all who contributed info!


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## flying fish

Awesome advice :3


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## welflash

great post dramaqueen
i'll try that someday


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## dramaqueen

Thank you!


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## molliefan09

thank you dramaqueen....this helps me a lot!!!!


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## Synthisis

Just bought 3 new females.

Put the 3 in the tank and they were all fine with each other.

Had my female out for about an hour, and put her back in and she's causing all the troubles lol. If she doesnt calm down by tonight ill be putting here into a breeder type enclosure to keep her away from the others.


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## fishyinpa

I am totally thinking about a sorority for the 14. I dunno though. Afraid they wont get along,have to get out extra tanks again,plus my luck with them not living very long....*sigh*


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## k stiles

great post DQ, it helped me a lot


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## damo2904

Thanks for the info, really helpful. 
I bought 3 females today from the aquarium, there were in the same tank together, same bag to transport them & gonna live together in the same tank. Are a little territorial at the mo, but i imagine its whilst they sort out whose territory is whose.  I called them Mia, Aurora & Vaniety.
So glad i got them, got one male in a seperate tank next to them & they are checking each other out....funny!
May get a couple more females soon......:-D


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## sheldon

*Help*

how long is this whole establishing pecking order thing supposed to last?

i got three female fish about a week ago and one in particular, Sheldon, keeps chasing around the other two. it seems to have gotten worse. will they ever get along?:evil:


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## dramaqueen

Is Sheldon a male? If so, males and females should not be living together.


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## ChristinaRoss

sometimes one is so aggressive youll have to remove her


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## sheldon

of course sheldon is a female and she chases around one and pretty much leaves the other alone- is there any way to make this STOP


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## dramaqueen

As Christina said, you may have to remove her and add her back in after she has had a few days of "time out".


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## Hadouken441

If im buyin a 10 gal what the most///least females i can put in there. Also gonna have a frog in there and maybe an otto. Also should i get them all young?


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## blabbermouth

*thx*

thank u so much i was planning on doin a sorrority tank i was going to do it a little wrong but u really helped so thx alot *:tease:*


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## Synthisis

Hadouken441 said:


> If im buyin a 10 gal what the most///least females i can put in there. Also gonna have a frog in there and maybe an otto. Also should i get them all young?


Otto's really like tank mates. Dont get just one.

Plan accordingly.

I go by the rule of 1.5-2gallons of water per fish.


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## iluvflair

Thanks for the info; that was really great. I think I'd like to try having a sorority sometime, but it'll take me a while.


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## Sonny23

Thanks! I'm going to rearrange my tank tomorrow  my bettas are in their own cups in the meantime
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BEELZEBOB

Man, my old 15gal tall that I used for a nano reef years ago sure seems to be beckoning for a cleaning and about 5 females LOL.

ah man i need more space


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## BettiBetta

Wow, what a great topic. I don't have any female bettas right now but maybe in the future I will plan on getting some! (When I get more experienced at betta keeping  )


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## miyko

my four girls have never ripped fins or really chased and there seems to be no pecking order... i have 7 hidy spots for the 4 of them and not one is EVER being used by just one... i have a barrel type decoration and they all hang around it if one goes in... they seem to never leave eachothers sides unless its feeding time.... is this at all normal?


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## dramaqueen

I don't know if it's normal or not. lol I'm glad they're doing so well but I would still keep an eye on them in case one of them decides to go berserk. lol


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## miyko

another day has gone by... no torn fins .... no chasing really... lucky is having problems eating though i have had to start crushing pellets for her...


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## Sarada

My 7 CT girls are siblings and get alone fine. But the one VT won't take anyone going near her, if anyone gets near she chases them away but I haven't seen her hurt anyone.


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## chepoaqp

Great post!!!!


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## 52cherish

Hi Dramaqueen,
If I take a female out of the sorority due to too much aggression, how long should she be kept alone? I got three new females yesterday to restock our sorority tank and the one that has been there from the beginning needed to be taken out. The new females are all about half her size and she really chased them around. She is currently sitting in a 2 Gal tank on my desk, but I sure would like her to go back at some point.


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## Sarada

probably forever, but you could try to re-organize the whole tank and throw her in again, just watch her closely.


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## dramaqueen

I would take her out for 2-3 days and then, like Sarada said, rearrange the tank and put them all back in at the same time. They will reestablish the pecking order and territories.


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## doggyhog

Another thing that works is putting your aggressive/problem girl in a breeders trap for a few days in the tank so she can get used to the other fish but can't get to them. It may help. It has helped me quite a bit!!!


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## Dead Sunlight

Great post! 

I'm planning on starting my own soroity later in the future, gotta concentrate on beeding...


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## Sarada

I've given up on my sorority.


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## Little Marlin

i was actually thinking about doing one but decided to do 1 female,4 cories,& 2 apple snails. i wanted a female,bbbuuuuut not a soroity ,to much up-keep for a first timer. :-D


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## Sarada

I now have 2 loaches, 1 female and 5 cories in my 20 gallon.


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## Little Marlin

hey, just curious. i am getting my ten gallon soon and what do you think i should put in itbesides 1female, 4 corys, 2 apple snails?


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## Sarada

I would start with that and let them get established...too many creature at one time can really mess with your water. And even then you are already well stocked.


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## Euphie101

My old 20G is just crying and begging to be a sorority. I'm thinking maybe towards christmas I'll set it up. How many females could be in a 20G? Would 8 or 10 be a good number?


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## Lion Mom

Euphie101 said:


> My old 20G is just crying and begging to be a sorority. I'm thinking maybe towards christmas I'll set it up. How many females could be in a 20G? Would 8 or 10 be a good number?


Before my 20 gal. "Diva" tank decided to spring a leak, I had 9 females in there with lots of plants & hidey holes and they all got along great. 

One word of warning, though, don't fill the tank all the way up - I started with 10, but one jumped since I had the water too high. :-(


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## Euphie101

Thanks LM! I'll keep that in mind when I set it up.


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## fishyinpa

Still a great post haha. I have a 9 female sorority in a 38 gallon tank. I have not had any problems as towards aggression. Probably because they have tons of room and places to hide from each other. They dont bother the danios or the cory catfish either. I firmly believe female bettas deserve as big a tank as you can get and friends! If you can of course that is.


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## dramaqueen

I agree. I'm glad everyone is getting along so well. I think it's because of having lots of room and plenty of hiding places, like you said.


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## fleetfish

I think I'm going to start a sorority. I now have three lovely girls and I have an empty 15g. Four more females should be okay, I think. I'm going to start cycling the tank this week :-D


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## CDederick

Would six females be too much for a 10g? I already have five in there and they all seem to be getting along, and have plenty of hiding places. I hear that six is a good number for a sorority though.


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## dramaqueen

I think 6 will be fine. Make sure they have plenty of hiding spots.


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## heythatsme

I'm thinking of setting up a sorority in my 15g and was wondering what are good live plants for one?


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## BettaBoy84

*Sorority Shots*

Some pics of some of the girls in my sorority just hanging out at the top of the tank...

This is the 75gl..still in a tank this large you have to watch for the biters...I took one of mine out recently and she ended up being responsible for all the nipped fins in my tank, as the girls are recovering now that she is gone...

No matter the size or number, its all about watching them like hawks..making sure they can remain civil...usually its only a few that disrupt this...Ideally a mature and calm female should be the alpha...


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## TurquoiseBetta

Thanks! This helped a lot!

Today i set up a "sorority" with four female bettas. I know you recommended at least six, but I'm a little short of cash (aren't we all) and I might get more later.


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## LucyLoofa

Thinking of starting a 10 gal sorority with 5 females once summer hits.
Mainly VT and CT. Heated, fully planted, no filter.
I will have plenty of Hornwort, Naja grass, etc for them to hide in, and probably Annubias along with my Creeping Jenny, MOL, Penny Wort, and Frogbit.
I have no idea about caves though. It's only a 10 gal and I can't find tera cotta pots small enough for it! I was hoping to have 3 or 4 of the pots in there. Most I can fit right now is 2 medium sized pots. Anyone know where I could find very small terra cotta pots?
Any suggestions for caves?
Any other suggestions for the tank?

I have no idea what to ask about the fish just yet, since I want to make sure they'll have a place to live before buying them. I'll ask personality questions closer to the buy more than likely.


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## anglnarnld

Thank you so very much!! This answered all my questions!!!


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## bloo97

Great post! After Dragon heals, I plan on getting a 10 gallon with four females.


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## tsoto80

This is a great post why didnt I notice it sooner? lol I have three females and thankfully I have been doing the right thing yay for me I would get more females bettas but I 4 danios still


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## tbird702

Would a "sorority" of 7 females work well with other peacfull fish in a larger tank? (29 gallon)


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## 52cherish

LucyLoofa said:


> I have no idea about caves though. It's only a 10 gal and I can't find tera cotta pots small enough for it! I was hoping to have 3 or 4 of the pots in there. Most I can fit right now is 2 medium sized pots. Anyone know where I could find very small terra cotta pots?


I got small ones at a crafts store, i.e. Michaels or Jo-Ann Fabrics. I also saw different sizes at a local greenery...


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## LucyLoofa

52cherish said:


> I got small ones at a crafts store, i.e. Michaels or Jo-Ann Fabrics. I also saw different sizes at a local greenery...


 Thank you so much!


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## caligurl1

*not sure*

how do you make a new thread


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## RCinAL

caligurl1 said:


> how do you make a new thread


Caligurl, 

WELCOME! Go to whatever section you want to post a thread in and look for the blue box at top left that says "NEW THREAD". Click on it and fire away! ;-)


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## RCinAL

I wish I had read this thread 2 weeks ago. :-( My two-lady sorority lasted a week without incident before the girls decided to kill each other while I was at work. I will be trying again but with more fish this time.


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## BettaHeart

How long should it take for a sorority to settle down?


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## MrVampire181

BettaHeart said:


> How long should it take for a sorority to settle down?


 Eh...2 weeks on average. It also varies from sorority to sorority and female to female. Using females that are sisters usually don't fight.


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## BettaHeart

MrVampire181 said:


> Eh...2 weeks on average. It also varies from sorority to sorority and female to female. Using females that are sisters usually don't fight.



huh, i see.. i ask only because it has been nearly two months and Bala has been aggressive towards the rest which then like tumblers gradually affects the others then there will be quiet for afew moments until one passes another then its back on again lol I think i need to get acouple plants that can float along the top just so its harder for them to see each other, i do have two tall plants already but i dont think its enough anymore. Thanks for the reply


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## lavallin

Is it ok to keep just one female alone in a 5 gal?


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## BettaHeart

lavallin said:


> Is it ok to keep just one female alone in a 5 gal?


yes it would be ok. Queen of the castle :-D


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## dramaqueen

Sure, no problem! A single female would be very happy in a 5 gallon.


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## lavallin

I'm glad. I bought her on impulse yesterday, then worried that she may get lonely. I've only ever had boys before so I wasn't sure! But she seems very happy - zooming around her tank and coming over every time I look in at her. She is much more active than any of my males! I love her already.


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## iheartmybettas

My sorority is up and running as of this morning! Everything seems to be going pretty well. I can pretty well tell who is going to be the head hancho of the tank. Most of the girls are pretty calm. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it continues to go well. I have only had one major fight break out so far. Only a little damage to a couple of tail fins but nothing major. I am trying to attach a picture of the tank (my first time) so hopefully it works and you can see it. I took it with my phone so it might be a little small.


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## Thunderloon

*time-outs*



doggyhog said:


> Another thing that works is putting your aggressive/problem girl in a breeders trap for a few days in the tank so she can get used to the other fish but can't get to them. It may help. It has helped me quite a bit!!!


When using breeder traps I advise getting a "9-way" its got enough room in 2-mode for a pair of girls if need be and completely open its enough for males to come visit in the sorority. Males healing fin damage from evil pet stores get extra therapy from lots of strutting around fins out.

With any confined container that has possible abrasive edges be sure to watch for popeye.

My time-out is simpler. I net the offender in a three inch net and swing it up to the surface and talk to her until she calms down. It gives me time to eye whoever she was chasing and net the other one if need be.


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## Thunderloon

*sorority stresses*

Ok, have time to post this:

Reasons betta girls harm each other.

Same color.
Same favorite hidey.
Same sounding name.
Nothing else to do.
Food snatching.
Flaring at friends.
Bullying for status.

How it works:

I've got a little one, Fins, maybe one inch from lip to end of not-healed-yet tail who got nipped twice because she's precisely the same color as my largest girl. The largest girl, Sheen, isn't in charge because Cherries is a light touch and the rest of the girls prefer her in charge. Cherries and Blue sleep together side by side tail to cheek. Blue loves me the most and nearly froths at the mouth when I give her attention. Rose gets confused by it but hangs out with her anyway. Rose protects Petal who is precisely the same as Rose but a month younger. Petal likes to follow Purp around and see how Purp copes with other fish. Purp is bullheaded and will barge into anything, I've seen her knock the algae eater off like males knock snails off. Purp protects any fish near her but Petals doesn't like competition for her closeness to Purp. So Brownie is a loner and Purp likes to see how she's doing then brings Petals along but Brownie is Rose's size and this drives Fins away from Brownie and Sheen sees Fins alone and swims over to nip her tail again.

I put fins in the 4-way, mel/pima in the water with some stressguard and Sheen became nuts with jealousy then began harassing everybody but made the mistake of going after Blue (who's half white) whom everybody sees as my favorite and the entire pecking order stomped on Sheen's head.

Why is Sheen so cross? Silver looked almost the same and was Big Fish when Sheen came home. Sheen thinks she inherited Silver's job.

Silver was a great sorority queen and ruled with an iron indifference and lightning fast waffling. So Sheen thought she was in charge until Cherries wouldn't let her sleep for a day after attacking Fins.

I don't think Carnation, Teal and Red even knew there was a problem. Red came home with Fins, is the exact same size, behaves the same way and _nobody_ has touched her.

Carnation is the oldest girl and remembers who was in charge before Silver and supported Cherries, now she's quiet and hides behind the filter to sleep.

And the bloodfin twins swim on.
The molly boys take turns chasing each other.
The male guppy constantly loses the nearly three inch female guppy.
The algae eater darts around obliterating anything that isn't a plant.
Twinkle (brilliant personality) and Nod (same color as Twinkle) still don't know each other exist.

So, now you understand why you need so many girls for stability in the tank and why we love sororities so much.

Teal killed herself today. Crowntails just won't stop eating for any reason, some even have pica and will eat snail shell, little rocks, loose carbon shards...


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## Guppie luver

can i get like 8 diffrent colerd like red white purple yellow orenge blue and like 2 mix colers


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## Thunderloon

Part of sorority tanks is to embrace the rainbow :-D hope I don't get sued.

I only have several blue girls because I hope they stay green when they come home, guess I'm an easy fish date.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

Thunderloon,

Geez, the action in your tank rivals those old tv soap operas... drama, drama, drama!

You should be a writer, if you aren't one already...


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## BettasAreBomb

hope someday to get a sororety but not till i move out of my mim and dads house :-D


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## thinkrevolutionx

Just for reference, I have over 15 bettas including a male in a large community tank (75 gallons) the only time I ever had any aggression was when there was only 3 females (long time ago) or when the male was in a 10 gallon community.

They literally climb all over each other to say hi to me, or for food. They might as well be a schooling fish for how well they get along. The male is included in this, no biting chasing or nipping whatsoever. My danios are more aggressive then the bettas. Have this going for about 4 months with no issues, maybe i'm an exception but don't believe it's not possible, I think as long as they are happy it's no issue (heavily planted, lots of hiding places, multiple pieces of driftwood, perfect water parameters here)

It's clear who's in charge - but mostly because I pick it up by how they interact with each other, how they separate for food, and who has the balls to take food from who - it's really a personality thing.

I really recommend giving it a shot, of all my community fish bettas are the only ones that could all look identical and i'd still be able to tell who is who based simply on their behavior.

Really the only thing more fun is my mostrous ghost shrimp, who just does laps back and forth in the tank bumping into everything and comes up for food like the rest of them.


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## roboglitz

So glad this is a sticky, I have been thinking about starting a sorority of my own and was looking up how to do it, ty for the info!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

I was lucky, and able to establish my sorority this week.... WAY ahead of schedule.

In the 20H:

4 baby female bettas (3-4 months old), 1 female betta about 6 months old, a male and female guppy, 5 green neons, 3 bronze corys and 1 p. khuli loach, female.

After the tank cycled, I stocked them in this order:

5 green neons
3 bronze corys and 1 p. khuli loach
Male and female guppys (golden snakeskin with mosaic black & yellow on tails)
3 baby bettas, F
6 month old betta, F

Last baby betta was a hold back (to check her health). To introduce her to the tank, I did the following:

*waited for 40% water change and tank cleaning day.
*scooped out bettas from tank in reverse order of dominance, and put them in bucket of old tank water.
*cleaned tank and added fresh water. Did not re-arrange anything.
*fed new baby betta and added her to the 20H. (She immediately started herding the guppies, which are twice as big as her!)
*fed original bettas in bucket.
*replaced bettas in reverse order of dominance.
*turned off tank light so everyone could chill a bit.

So far, the new betta girl is settling in like she's always been there. 

I don't think I want to add any more fish now; this tank is DONE. We'll need the capacity as the betta girls grow.

My monster, ginormous and crabby Baby Blue betta girl now has her 5 gallon all to herself, which is for the best. I've got the divider handy, if I need to quickly 'rehome' anybody.

I'll post a picture soon


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

Oh, I wanted to mention that originally, I had 4 baby betta f and 1 of them was super-aggressive... she was chasing around the 6 month old betta F and trying to bite her!

That baby was taken back to Pet Smart (explained that she wasn't suitable for a sorority - they took her back with receipt, no problem), and replaced.

The sorority is a much 'betta' mix now, and the feisty little girl I returned will get a more suitable home.


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## LisaLB24

I posted somw of this here http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=64077 but thought I could ask your opinions. I've got seven girls ready to go in a 10g cycled tank. However, I noticed that 1 has a slight case of popeye and the other has a pretty bad case of fin rot. So all the girls are currently still in their cups while these two have a chance to heal. What should I do? Go ahead and add the 5 healthy girls and add these two later after they have healed? Keep everyone in their cups and add them all at the same time. I guess another option is to return these two but that would pretty much guarantee their death 
Suggestions?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

LisaLB24,

I'd put the 5 healthy ones into the cycled tank. Treat the ill bettas. When they are *both* healthy, plan their introduction into the sorority.

*Acclimatize the newcomers to tank water before they go in - by adding tank water to their cups. Feed the new fishes a snack just before they transfer.

*I would do it at a major water change/vaccumming/cleaning and re-arranging.
That way the established sorority is 'thrown off' by major enviromental change.

*Take the sorority out of the main tank into a bucket of tank water. Reverse pecking order, so that the Alpha female goes in the bucket *last*. Feed the sorority a snack, while they are in the bucket. (All the girls should have eaten before they meet, so that the competition for food is not an immediate issue)

*Slip the two new bettas into the main tank while the sorority. Give them about 20 minutes to orient themselves before the sorority comes in.

*Add the sorority back, again in reverse order, so that the Alpha betta goes in *last*.

*Watch for any overly aggressive behavior. Any problem should make themselves known pretty quickly (I had one little girl betta that aggressively went after another older betta twice her size... as soon as they both hit the water!). 

*Isolate any aggressive fish... float her in a clear container or net cage for a few days. If she doesn't mellow out at the next introduction attempt, she may need to be rehomed. 

Good luck healing the girls and with your sorority!


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## thinkrevolutionx

For myself, I keep a one gallon container separate that I use as a quarantine so I can medicate individually and keep the water very clean.

I also have a 10 gallon for my bigger fish, which is a bit harder to manage, but you're not putting clown loaches or a sick angel fish in a 1 gallon.

I would separate them, treat as needed - keep the water nice and clean and heated - and put your five healthy girls in the 10 gallon and monitor them closely for signs of illness.


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## LisaLB24

Ok, so the healthy girls are in. And I have a bully. How much fighting is too much? She is a reddish fan tail and she is chasing everyone around. Everyone else runs but there is another red betta that is almost as stubborn as her. I netted one and the other was pecking at her through the net! now I've got a towel over the tank for everyone to calm down. I peeked a minute ago and everyone is chill. I want them to establish a heirarchy but when should I interfere?


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## Thunderloon

LisaLB24 said:


> Ok, so the healthy girls are in. And I have a bully. How much fighting is too much? She is a reddish fan tail and she is chasing everyone around. Everyone else runs but there is another red betta that is almost as stubborn as her. I netted one and the other was pecking at her through the net! now I've got a towel over the tank for everyone to calm down. I peeked a minute ago and everyone is chill. I want them to establish a heirarchy but when should I interfere?


Immediately, you're the biggest fish and their Alpha

You never really have an Alpha female, just the Beta Betta.

Love on them all more till you have their attention.
(love, not food, wiggle fingers, spread, teach names, etc... I get most my girls to understand glass petting of their reflection)


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## LisaLB24

I put the problem child in a breeder and she is sulking and making mean faces at everyone who passes. There is still a little bit of chasing. But they seemed to have calmes down a lot. She's going to stay in the breeder while I'm at work and I'll try to add her back when I'm home tonight and can watch her.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

Thunderloon,

You're right, bettas respond to us in a way other fish (like tetras, for example) do not. They do seem to crave our attention. We are the most major distraction they can experiance (short of the tank bursting).


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## LisaLB24

Hmmm, not going so well. 
They are still chasing and pecking at each other pretty much constantly. 
How long will this go on? If this isn't going to work I'd rather pull the plug BEFORE there are any major injuries. Should I give it another day or two? No wrestling matches that I've seen today and no more damaged fins since I removed the most aggresive girl.


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## LisaLB24

*Tank pics*


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## thinkrevolutionx

Tank looks perfect for betta. I will tell you this from my experience;

The first day or so was nasty - they were fighting each other left and right. This was in a 10 gallon with 3 females and a male. Eventually it settled - but the male would chase the most beta of the bettas (#3 in the heirarchy) while there was no fighting, I pulled the male. Added two more females, and they fought again for the first day, after that just some minor chasing.

Got a 29 gallon, put the male back in, and slowly added more females - almost 0 aggression. Of the 4 females I added, 1 - a baby at that, once it got used to the tank (probably 1-2 days later) started chasing a few of the others around, climbing the hierarchy so to speak. That settled within a few days. Added male back in day 2 of 29 gallon - and never any issues with him either. 

75 gallon, 10+ bettas, same male that's been in since day 1 - angel fish, clown loaches, zebra danios - 0 aggression.

My conclusion? Size matters for aggression, and some chasing and even nipping is normal, especially in beginning. When my females were shy, or being picked on - they hid. I have hysterical pictures of my fish pressed against tank and plants, hiding behind thermometer, curled in balls in little alcoves in decorations and driftwood, hiding tangled in my java moss, and my male who loves to make my little house decoration I have his own cave. He always chills in there until I come around.

As they all got more comfortable with the tank and each other, they pretty much started schooling together - until bed time when they all kind of go there own way and hide.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

LisaLB24,

Nipping and minor fighting will happen in a sorority; there will be major skirmishs too and power struggles. Unfortunately, these girls are like little wet pitbulls. I have a female betta who cannot have another creature in her tank (I learned the hard way). She's alone (and happy) in her 5 gallon.

If you have a fish that is over-the-top-aggressive and refuses to play well with others, it could end badly. Even if you remove her, though, one of the other girls may eventually 'snap' someday - that's the risk you run, keeping a sorority.

Betta girls are beautiful and dangerous... like the female spies in a James Bond movie. When everybody's happy, there's nothing "betta" (ha ha). But when things go wrong, they can go terribly wrong.

What is the best solution for the situation your bettas are currently in? What do you want to do?


----------



## LisaLB24

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback. I have bought a 2 1/2 gallon for my most agressive girl. I tried putting her back in the sorority and she was right back at it. I pulled her right back out. I think she stirred everyone up though because, while they had calmed a bit this afternoon, they are back to chasing a good bit now. Two girls have tiny pin holes in their tails, barely noticable, and no other damage. I'm going to give it a couple more days to watch things. If no more girls are injured I'll keep it running. If there are any escalating injuries though I'm splitting the 10g three ways, might have to turn the 2.5 into a divided fro a while. Thanks for the support and I'll keep you all posted!


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## LisaLB24

UPDATE!!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm so glad I stuck through the first couple of days of chasing. My sorority tank is now by far my favorite tank. I love these girls. They still chase sometimes but now it almost seems like a game, darting around and hiding in caves or behind plants. They swarm at the front of the glass everytime I walk up, nibble my fingers during water changes and tank cleaning. I swear these creatures are more dog than fish! Thanks for the words of encouragment and advice during the start-up phase. I know I will have to continue to monitor them but this tank is well worth the initial stress!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

LisaLB24,

I'm glad to hear everything is going well. 
Betta girls are something special, there is no doubt!


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## GienahClarette

That's fantastic! I'm personally on the fence about trying a sorority in the future or not. They're so cool when they go right, but I'm not sure if I've got the experience to make it work.


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## LisaLB24

Quick question on feeding...
I'm using the hikari micro-pellets becasue the girls were having trouble with the regular pellets, but I think I'm over feeding. The pellets are really fine, like sand, and I'm using a small pinch for 6 girls. They devour them instantly but a couple of the girls are still developing quite the belly. How can a monitor how much each of them is eating? I want to feed enough that all 6 girls get some food but the hogs are eating most of it


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## Thunderloon

I have a glass lid, I open the whole thing up and make it a game of flicking a couple pellets in at a time at each end.

If you have a real hog you can use a large net and hold her away while you feed the rest. The girls who are still hungry will start pecking around the bottom later on, just watch for them and teach them to come up for their name then feed them.

The biggest pig in my tank right now is blutip the female guppy, she's got a LOT of stiff fin to push her around.

Once the girls get really big they'll not be able to dart around so readily.

Try throwing the pellets down at the water to see if they'll immediately sink, the smaller girls will be more able to get at the food.


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## livismom

*The Delta Nu's*

Here is the 10 gallon tank I have set up for the girls. They are doing much better than I had imagined. I have also just added some floating plants for some more cover.


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## livismom

*The girls*

This is Thalia. She is very shy.









This is Shiloh. She is shy too.









Here is Sarah. She is currently "Queen of the Tank". 








My daughter named this one Fatty. Hate the name but well...she is a fatty.lol













This is Farrah. Not a very picture of her.













And here is Darla. She is the bully of the tank. But She is soo pretty and comical. She is in almost every picture. She may be evicted though. She starts nearly every fight.


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## LisaLB24

*My happy girls!*

Ruby, Tilly and Queeny









Lady and Rosy










Popeye










Phin (she's in a seperate tank healing from fin rot she had when I bought her. She may or may not one day go in the sorority...)










All my girls!


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## livismom

You have beautiful girls. I love your tank. My daughter insisted on the diva girly theme.


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## anbu

Nice


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## mitchkin5

Beautiful girls...I had no trouble with my six girls. I was really lucky. The only problem is I WANT MORE OF THEM! LOL They are just so elegant and the funny thing is I never use to pay any attention to the female bettas until I started reading about them on here. Now I'm in love with them like the males! I wish I had done my work tank in a sorority and may eventually change it over!!


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## CyerRyn

Since I'll be having 2 10gal tanks, I was considering making the 2nd 10gal tank for a sorority. How many girls should I include in a 10gal tank and would it be best if I quarantine them for a week or two in glass bowls close to each other (to get used to each other).. like rotate them around each day? I was just curious on the best option to get them used to each other rather than putting them in the tank at once and hope for the best?


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## Ariel1719

I'll be starting a sorority later on this week!  I got one AB female coming to me on wednesday, and I'll be buying two or three females tomorrow  Very excited.


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## callmeconfused

I have a 25 cycled, planted and ready. I have 7 girls, and 2 on the way that should be here tomorrow. But, I also have a problem. Two of the three girls in the divided 2.5 tank got in with each other this AM and one had some pretty torn up fins. She is laying on the bottom, but will still come to the glass when I go check on her. Her fins seem to be the only thing damaged. I added bettafix to the tank for now. I also fixed the problem with the divider that allowed them to get to each other.

This is my first attempt at a sorority. My question may be stupid, but since I don't know, I wanted to ask. Will the girl that beat up Abba (oddly her name is Angel) have a vendetta against her, when I put them in the 25, now that she has already gone after her once?


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## CTMongo

awesome info!!..
thanks heaps for that!..So do i need to go out nd buy 2more females?
cos i already have 2 females, just brought today both from different places they dont hassle each other jst pretty much keep to themselves.

Also thats just a temporary tank as im moving end of june and low on funds atm to get more spacious tanks, aslo will be adding a few more plants & itams hopefully on friday..

My gurls
Speedy (The Big Gurl) & Kia Tere Which Means Hurry Up..Note: Shes Abit Slow So She Needs To Hurry Up lol


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## RayneForhest

MrVampire181 said:


> Eh...2 weeks on average. It also varies from sorority to sorority and female to female. Using females that are sisters usually don't fight.


The little sweetie girl I have now is very aggressive. I think I'll keep her by herself and get some sisters to have in the sorority. 

Does anyone have any sisters from their breeding ventures that are considered less than by valued characteristics?
I would be interested in purchasing some for pets.


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## Betta Fish Newbie

thnx this post helps a lot!


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## sudharshaninu

LisaLB24 said:


> All my girls!




so pretty !!!! love it


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

Per popular request:

sunnydawnie,

"If you have a sorority how do you keep them from fighting while you are working or out for the evening ?"

Praying helps.

Sorority girls can be nippy now and then. Try to be observant when you feed them before you go to work. If you see a storm brewing, try to 'head it off at the pass':

1. Time out a trouble maker in a fry net.
2. Protect a potential victim in a fry net.
3. Feed them a special treat.
4. Put something new to explore in the tank.
5. Take something out of the tank.
6. Keep the lights off.
7. Pray (did I mention that already)?

The worst does happen occasionally. Be prepared with fry saver nets and a QT tank, containers, salts, etc. Know how to heal wounds and how to condition injured fish. Know when and when not to panic.

I wouldn't start a sorority with less than a 20 gallon set-up. The more girls in the sorority, the less chance for 'concentrated aggression' to occur. You will need a heavily planted and decorated tank so they girls have plenty of chances to hide and escape aggression.

Fish can be added later... generally it's good to introduce a couple at a time, so the newcomer isn't singled out. There are several different methods to do this.

I reccomend QTing the newcommers until you are sure they are healthy. Then put them in a fry saver net in the sorority tank for a few days, so that all the fish are introduced in safety.

After then seperated introduction, do the full introduction. I like to do this on a water change day, when there is plenty of commotion in the tank. Net all the 'regulars' and place them in a bucket of tank water. Give them all a treat when they're in the bucket. 

Some people say to re-arrange the tank before the newcommers arrive, to reduce territorial issues. I keep re-arranging as an 'ace in the hole', and use it only if I have to (so far, I haven't need to ).

Release the new girls in the main tank, and give them some time to investigate their new home. Leave the fry saver net in place. Give them a light feeding and then re-introduce the regulars, in reverse pecking order (lowest to highest). Watch the interactions between the newbies and the regulars.

If you see a fish being overly aggressive, or if a fish seems to be bullied, remove one fish (either the bully or the bullied, not both) to the fry saver net.

Wait a couple days, and try again. Repeat as necessary, until everyone plays nice. 

If you have a super aggressive female who won't chill out, she may have to be housed alone or returned to the pet store. Be prepared for this senario as well.

If you can stand the roller coaster ride a sorority can be, it can be a very rewarding experiance.

There are a number of threads on this forum on this subject; if you are serious about a sorority it would be advisable to do a forum search and pull up as much info as you can...


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## Impolite

Last night, I started my sorority.  
I went to petsmart (the only place with female bettas, I'm not aware of any local breeders). BTW the check out lady annoyed the crap out of me! We got into a fight about if female bettas could be kept together and I just kept fighting her, saying they could. Anyways, I ended up just leaving, letting her believe what she wanted. I already had a female, Chita, in the tank, so I got five more. They're in a well covered tank with approx. 10 hiding spots. I rearranged then started the adding process. I had a 3 way breeder, and I put the biggest female in it. Turns out, she's the nicest, I named her cherry bomb . I secretly added the others slowly while my first female was distrated, and then I let the one in the breeder go while she checked out the others. I was totally freaking out at first, watching as Chita chased them, tried to nip, while on the other hand I missed another one holding onto a different ones fin! 
I put chita in the 3 way breeder and everyone calmed down. I let her out two separate times, both her eventually going crazy. I put her in it over night and took out today. Everyone is good. 

Anyways, now this is my all-time favorite tank. Theyre so beautiful and fun to watch. If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't have ever done anything so wonderful. 

Thank you for making this


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## fleetfish

Well, after eight months of having a sorority, it's come to an end. My beautiful cellophane girl Elwing passed away this morning leaving me with only three girls left out of my original seven. I've decided to wait until the fall to see if I can have another sorority. It's dependant on what I'm doing and wether I'll have the time for upkeep. 

I've given the three remaining ladies homes of their own - sterilite tubs for now. They'll be pampered ... they've earned their retirement


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## rswfire

LisaLB24 said:


> All my girls!


Pure awesome!!!


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## PhilipPhish

I love this thread! It helps a lot!

thanks!


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## copperarabian

This would of been usefull when I started my sororty  With mine I had a ton of anacharis left floating, as well as two large amazon swords, and a 4 planted amazon swords as well as a few others. my NIB betta were a little more aggressive at first and they now get along fine. I've moved a lot of the floating plants to other tanks where I planted them, but still leave a good amount for them to sleep in at night lol I also added 3 larger girls who I was worried about, but they are big softies lol


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## Arowan

I started a sorority 3 days ago in my 16 gallon, and started with 7 girls.

Today, I came home from class to find one dead. Pretty sure the death was at least partially caused by the other girls, but can't pin down which one as I wasn't home. I usually get home before my tank light turns on, but I missed my normal bus--I pretty much came home minutes after she kicked the bucket; even the other girls hadn't noticed her yet.

I am a little upset, only because I had thought the worst of their fighting had seemed to be over--most of the stress stripes had disappeared. 

However, I'm uncertain if I need to take any steps with the other girls... they seem fine, very little "bumping" confrontations since I came home and found the dead one, they don't bother my cories, and overall the fin-damage has been pretty minimal. I'm even unsure if they're solely responsible for the death of the crowntail female, except for the fin damage she had taken, since there were no obvious injuries on her body. 

I still want to continue my sorority, my remaining 6 girls are very entertaining and a pleasure to watch... is a death normal? (I feel bad, since I'm only gone 3.5hours in the early morning for my summer class...) Especially since, for the most part, the remaining 6 are behaving pretty well for a new sorority...


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## Neil D

Deaths can happen. 

How many females can I put in a 10G?


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## Arowan

Unhelpful response, but you can put up 5-6 females in a 10 gallon tank.

So says the bazillion posts about the topic in this forum.


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## Neil D

Oh, I'm sorry. I suppose my question could've gone in the quick question thread. But I do feel that your response was a bit rude. Thanks for the info though!


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## Bettawolf19

Was the other sick or hiding at all Arowan?


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## thePWNISHER

Is it possible to start with 1 female in a large tank of say 30 or 40g, then add females 2 at time until you get 20 or so in a tank large enough for that many? I was wondering how touchy they are in a much larger much more well planted community? Or what if there were say other community fish in the tank then you add a handful of females? would you still have the same agression if there are other fish to distract them? I am just curious about sororities in larger conditions not the 10-20g setups that seem most common to have the problems with 6-7 girls.


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## Arowan

Bettawolf19 said:


> Was the other sick or hiding at all Arowan?


No, she had mostly avoided the scuffles, too. I had initially pegged her to be my alpha, as she was the most aggressive in her cups, so I put her in last...

The other crowntail is the one I have constantly hiding, now. Haven't been able to get her to come out to eat, either, but I'm hoping as she gets hungry she'll pop out. Looked her over carefully, and nothing seems wrong with her. Maybe she's just shy?

The other 5 veil tails are doing great though, and really love feeding time. I've noticed that the more "feedings times" they've had since I started, the more friendly they've gotten with each other...


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## Neil D

Maybe she didn't get access to enough food or maybe it was just stress. Did she have stress stripes?


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## Arowan

Neil D said:


> Maybe she didn't get access to enough food or maybe it was just stress. Did she have stress stripes?


No stress stripes. Finally noticed some stringy white poop, so I'm suspecting internal parasites now. Soaking her food in garlic water, now to just get her to eat.


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## Ruri Lesavka

2 of my females are wiggling, circling, and nudging each other, is that normal?


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## Neil D

Are one of them male? If not maybe they're just setting up a pecking order...


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## Ruri Lesavka

No, both are female, a halfmoon and crowntail. It's probably the pecking order then. xD


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## thePWNISHER

thePWNISHER said:


> Is it possible to start with 1 female in a large tank of say 30 or 40g, then add females 2 at time until you get 20 or so in a tank large enough for that many? I was wondering how touchy they are in a much larger much more well planted community? Or what if there were say other community fish in the tank then you add a handful of females? would you still have the same agression if there are other fish to distract them? I am just curious about sororities in larger conditions not the 10-20g setups that seem most common to have the problems with 6-7 girls.


I guess what I am asking is if anyone has had success at adding girls in small numbers like 1 or 2 at a time to a larger sorority. Or are sororities always a add total number all at once(well evenly spaced out) and separate the bullies after watching them for a bit?


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## Arowan

Another question, as I might have found a male with a fake ovipositor/egg-spot...

I ended up with two dead females of my original seven, one from causes unknown, and the other from what I'm now believing was a combination of internal parasites and dropsy. I had thought I had quarantined and caught her symptoms early enough, but in her last 12 hours she pine-coned... So, definitely dropsy. 

Anyway, I wasn't comfortable with just 5 females in my tank, and felt that I needed at least 1-2 more, though the original 5 seem to be getting along pretty well. My local petco was taking forever to get in a new shipment, and the few other ones I checked in the area had females in horrendous conditions.

But, finally, yesterday my petco got a new shipment of bettas. 

They had, what has to be, "Queen" bettas. They weren't male, but they were ginormous compared to the other halfmoon, crowntail, and doubletail males in the store. Their bodies were easily 3-4 inches long, dwarfing their cups. Having seen Kings before, though, these had smaller fins of proportion with normal females.

Much as I'd love to do a sorority with these "queens," there was too much of a size difference with my current females. The petco also had some "normal" female bettas in comparison with the rest of the queens, and I picked out a couple healthy ones that I felt were of similar size to mine, and pretty. 

Brought them home, and I noticed that one definitely had a larger tail-fin, and somewhat larger ventrals, and is slightly bigger than my alpha. However, I just thought "well, she's just a very impressive female specimen, and will probably end up alpha."

I floated both new girls in the sorority tank in separate, clear containers, and was planning to add them in a few days when I do my next big clean. But today, I came home from class to discover that the "somewhat larger girl" had made a bubble-ring around the inside of "her" cup. 
I suspect I might have picked up a juvenile male... and from his size, if that's the case, he might turn out to be a king xD
*edit* He/she also flares a lot, and is somewhat overly-aggressive. The girls don't seem to mind him/her, and like to float and swim all around his container.

So, are bubble rings typical for female bettas, and am I over-analyzing this fish? Or should I bring her/him back to the petco and swap for a more definitely-female fish. 

Long post, sorry... had to brag about those giant female bettas, but couldn't get pictures.


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## Frankilicious

i have a question. can you add one male to that tank or will the females gang up on him?


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## Neil D

Males and females cannot be kept together except for the short time needed for breeding.


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## Arowan

I've heard of people doing it successfully, but they're usually in 30+ gallon tanks, and you really need to know what you are doing....


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## fightergirl2710

Sometimes females build bubbles too, the best way to tell is getting them to flare and checking for the beard... Girls sometimes will have beards too but on the smallish side.. Hope this helps!


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## Frankilicious

thanks!


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## Silverfang

I plan on setting up a sorority in the the fall. My question is what will I need in regards to the tank? I can pick up a 20gal for 26$, but it comes with nothing. So what would I need for it, besides the obvious heater, filter of some sort, and the decor inside (plants gravel, etc)? I have the option of buying one with a hood, but it's 20$ extra. Should it be considered a necessity?

I had a fish tank once before, but I am not going to rely on that experience I Was a lousy fish keeper back then.


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## Neil D

If you want light, then go for the hood. Or make your own if you don't care. But you seem to have everything down;-)


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## maggiegator

Ever since I got onto this forum and started hearing about sororities, I've wanted one. Right now my one male is in his 10 gallon tank all by himself, but I might oust him and put him in a new 3ish gallon so I can turn the 10g into a sorority. I'm going to be going to Petco tomorrow to check out 3-5g tanks. I'll get my boy set up in his new home before worrying about the sorority. But I'm super excited to get started and to be able to go pick out a bunch of new girls.


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## Neil D

I have two males in a 10g, but I can't exactly get another tank, so...I'll have to wait...-_- lol but I love em!


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## maggiegator

wooo, I've got my sorority started! Kovu is now in a nice cozy 2.5g, and gets a full view of the girls' tank. ;D Right now he's just watching like "CAT FIGHT!" I've got four girls right now, all a bit over an inch long, so I think they're just babies still. They're just bobbing around in their little temporary containers from Petco so that they can see each other without interacting just yet. And I think I already know who's going to be alpha, 'cause there's one female who's having a bigger fit than the others.  She's going nuts, just flaring her little gills. It's adorable coming from something as small as her, hahaha.

edit: they seem to be calming down now, so I'm going to try releasing them, but I'll be at the ready with a QT tank and a net! wish me luck!


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## MrNighttime

Started a sorority today in 10 gallon. It was a gift to the girlfriend and she decorated it as she wanted. She bought 3 girls and one is larger and we took her out allready as she was relentless in chasing the others. I know some chasing is normal but they were going so fast you couldnt see them. I figure a day or two of time out and maybe a coupel more girls to spread out the agression will help.

Dodged a bullet today as the "female" I thought i bought last week I think is actually a male but unsure what type. He/it looks liek a female but has no white spot down below. ANd when during fish tank clening I set its bowl by Pickle's 10 gallon tank...Pickle flared and puffed and so did the one in the bowl....so I think I got a male. Whis I coudl figure out pics to get opinions.

Any advice?


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## Bettawolf19

@MrNighttime
I hope these might help a bit if at all. 

Here's some pictures of my girl Dezzy flaring vs my male Blackbird and a picture of Gibson my Plakat Male.

Dezzy(sorry for the crappy pictures):



















Blackbird:

















And one of Gibson my Plakat Male:


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## Neil D

Gibson is amazing!


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## Silverfang

so off topic, but I'mma steal Gibson!


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## Neil D

Not if I get him first! *takes Gibson*


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## BettaHeart

How many females i can i get away with in a 30gal?


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## Neil D

At least 25. Maybe 30.


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## fightergirl2710

I'd say 15-20... Some girls are pretty big!


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## MrNighttime

It is amusing watching then chase and establish a pecking order. Liberty chooses to ignore them all and hides in the mouth of the dragon ornament. But Ladyfish is proving to be anything but as she is bigger and tries to bully them all. She was doing well until Dusty ...about LFs size...turned her blue self around and drew a line.

I could swear I hear her say, "Oh no you didn't just come up on me like that!"

I told the gf that tomorrow she must go and buy some caves and things for the girls to hide in. The fake plants tastefully spread around may look great but aren't very practical for the fish to hide and rest in.


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## MrNighttime

Bettawolf19: Actually the more I look the more I think the questionable fish looks more like one another betta a member posted a pic of. Betta's name was Thunder I think.


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## Bettawolf19

Oye no stealing Gibson!!

You could try PVC pipes MrNighttime. That what I did just make sure to get big ones


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## Lion Mom

BettaHeart said:


> How many females i can i get away with in a 30gal?


IMO, 15 - 2 gals. per girl. ;-)


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## Neil D

Maybe 25-30 was a bit high, but depending on filtration 20-25 seems ok. Lucky you!!


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## Marieukxx

Hi guys I'm from the UK. I have one female Betta in a 60 litre which I think is about 10 gallons cycled tank. The tank has a long hollow log a cave and loads of tall plants. I have just ordered 4 more females to start a sorority and they arrive on saturday. I've wanted this for a long time and some friends I talk to online on anothet forum have been successful.

I'm really worried about it as I've read both good and bad stories. Is it true that bettas that look different are less likely to fight? 

Anyway I guess I'm looking for words of encouragement. I'm pretty nervous in case they tear eachother apart.


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## Neil D

It'll work out! But if you want REAL help, talk to drama queen. And some other sorority owners. Good luck! 60 literes is more that 10 g, it's 15!


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## indjo

Marieukxx said:


> I'm really worried about it as I've read both good and bad stories. *Is it true that bettas that look different are less likely to fight?*


No, it's not true. Sometimes different contrasting colors may not fight at first (depending how they were raised) but eventually they will have an "alpha" contest.

If the new females were in a sorority, they would probably be more docile. But your current female has been alone for some time. She will probably be aggressive, at least when you first put them together. This usually triggers others to flare. 

You have to let them fight a bit. Usually most females from sororities won't go to the bitter end and will swim away after a few bites. But those who were in solitary might hold her territory. 

Keep an eye on them for the first 30 minutes. If they don't fight, they should get along. Take out any female that's too aggressive (always chasing and biting others).... flaring is ok, but fighting/biting is not.

Hope this helps


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## dramaqueen

Actually I don't have a sorority but I did research, got info from some people who do have sororities and wrote up the sticky.


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## Shimizoki

I just set up my first sorority... It was nearly as stressful for me as it was for the fish. Watching some of them fight like that was absolutely terrifying. For some reason they don't mention that when telling you to set up a sorority.


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## Fishkeeper71

Betta sororities are not very difficult though at times can be a real challenge. From my experience Sororities are best started with all the females present. This prevents the Newbie syndrome or intruder alert response from the other fish. If you want to add more females it's best to remove them all for a bit then rearrange their furniture as this will reset territories. Then add them all at once and allow the pecking order to re-establish. 

I usually end up with over 50 or more females when a new batch of fry hatches <Sometimes well over a hundred>. I would put them all in a 30 long until they got too big and would then begin to sell off or give away my excess and never really had too many issues with 30+ females in one tank <My 55 would take the most> Now that I'm breeding them again I hope to have some pics soon of a what I refer to playfully as a Betta Harem (30+ in larger tank> 

Store bought females seem to cause the most issues because they are so isolated these days, when I was kid it common to goto a LFS and see a tank with 10 or so females in it ready for sale. Nowadays everyone thinks that <Bay-tuh> females need to be separated. However <Beh-tuh> females don't in most cases.

Love these fish and keep up the good work to all you sorority keepers out there, love the pics and love to see so many taking great care of these often abused fish.


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## astoda

I'm cycling a 20 gal tank right now for a soroity. Will the females be aggressive to other fish that I add such as catfish or other peaceful fish?


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## Shimizoki

Astoda - Mine are getting along just fine with assassain snails, Cory Cats, Neon Tetras, and Ottos.


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## Eziekel

good information. i have 5 females in a 10 gallon tank doing great


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## roarsirroar

do you think i could do:
7 female bettas
8 harlequin rasboras
6 bottom dwellers
in a 29 gallon?

or is that too stocked?


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## Neil D

It seems a tad overstocked...hmm...but i would ask someone more experienced...


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## mjoy79

I also have 5 in a 10 gallon going. They're all such cuties! I only worry though about the 2 CTs. My "bad girl" CT (I named her Ana Lucia) seems to have a problem only with my other CT (Libby). She'll flare and chase her around and Libby will get stress stripes occasionally. Should I be worried about her getting stressed too much? They're not biting each other and Libby generally tries to avoid Ana Lucia if she can. 
I love feeding them though! Its so cute to have all 5 of them gathering for food


----------



## roarsirroar

neil, that aqadvisor said my tank was 84%
it seems a bit odd that its that low but i'm not going any higher


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## Neil D

yeah I wouldn't...


----------



## Tikibirds

I'm gonna give this a try. 

The bottom of the tank is really well covered as I have a lot of smaller "foreground" plants from petco and several houses but the top is kinda bare. 
I out a cup with some silk plants on top of a tree stump to make the plants go up higher. 

gonna get some taller ones tomorrow or maybe some floating real ones if I can fins them.


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## hmckin20

ohman.. 

i really want to start a sorority.
i love the little girls i have now and think it'd be gorgeous to have a few more, in the same tank.

i pretty much promised myself if everything goes good this year, by my birthday (in january) i'd let myself start a sorority.


any tips on preparation? anything that might make me not want to start one? xD for the gallon size, i was thinking 10 gals, but i may indulge and buy something a bit bigger..


----------



## Neil D

10 is the min, but try for 15, or 20.


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## hmckin20

okay, larger is better. c: gotcha. 

also is four or six the minimum norm for number of bettas? (really) what does better?



and do i need to condition them over a certain amount of time?


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## mjoy79

I think 5 is the minimum for girls and 10g is the smallest tank. But yes bigger is better. I would have something bigger with more girls in it if I had the space


----------



## nighthealr

I need help/advice please! I started a sorority mid July. The tank is 10g, cycled, heavily planted. Wanting to minimize chance of conflict, I bought 5 same-spawn females (who all arrived together in a single bag) from a breeder on aquabid. Aside from a couple minor nipped fins on 2 girls, things were pretty peaceful. Then 3 weeks ago I woke to find that overnight 1 girl had been pretty beaten up- fins were pretty much non-existant as was much of her actual tail! She's been isolated in a 1.5g (water changes 2-3xweek) since then and fins/tail have essentially all grown back. I was considering slowly reintroducing her back into the sorority....until I turned the tank lights on today and found that my little vampire/piranhas had been at it AGAIN!! However, this time they actually killed 1 girl! Worst of all she was pretty chewed up-missing fins, tail and had a big hole chewed in her belly! I wanted to throw up when I saw her poor little body. :-( Now I don't know what to do...definitely NOT going to put the 1 in QT back in with them. Don't want her possibly fatally attacked this time. But what will happen with only 3 of them left together? Keep reading that 5 is better. Even if I get a couple more they will need QT for awhile before I can add them. Any suggestions? I do check the tank frequently during the day and haven't seen any signs of aggression. All was well when I turned off the lights last night......


----------



## Neil D

5 is better. What some people say is that you can separate them all, and float the little containers (like the kind at petco) in the tank. SO basically reintroduce them...that may work, and you could redecorate the tank...


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## MinibotLove

Okay so ah.. I didn't start off my girls in the recommended way.  My roommate and I were told that girls and boys could be kept together because females were more docile, so we had one girl and one boy. They got along for a couple of days until he started chasing and nipping her real bad and made her tail all ratty, so we separated them. Then someone Else told us that girls could be kept together because they weren't as territorial as the males, and we got a 2 gallon tank and an extra girl, and we were waiting for them to acclimate to the water temp when I started doing some research and had to go "Ack! Stop! It says we need at least four or they'll fight each other!" Not really 100% clear on the rules of female engagement, we ran back to Walmart to get a couple more girls, but there was only one more, who was the sister of the girl we had acquired earlier in the day (Or so we assume, since they're about the same size and had the same freckles on their dorsal fins). So we decided to tentatively try three and see how they got along, since two were sisters and maybe they would kinda protect each other from outsider bullying.

Maybe that was too much to expect... :roll: Our girls (Skyfire, Silverbolt, and Starscream - we're ah... we're Transformer nerds heh...) weren't docile from the moment Starscream saw them. She's the littlest and the one we had first, so I guess she didn't like new people sharing her space. We kept watch and I kept expecting them to settle down since the other two girls were bigger, but Silverbolt's tail started getting kind of tattered and Skyfire had some cuts along her gills, so I snatched Starscream out and put her in time-out. I waited a day and put her back, but she started chasing them again, so I scooped her right back out and put her back in her tank. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, until I left her by herself for a few days. I thought that would be that, she'd just live by herself, but she started sulking at the bottom of her tank with her fins tucked up all submissively and sad, and I worried that she was lonely. 

SO back to get a nice 10 gal tank, some more gravel, plants, more hidey holes, filter, etc., and three more girls, one from Walmart with the same freckle fins as the other two girls, and two from Petco that I picked because they were lighter than all the other girls for some color variation. So we set up the tank, got the gravel and plants and hideys all set up, and put the girls in their bags. Starscream was _livid_. And I don't know if it's normal or not, because I've searched the threads some and haven't heard anyone mention it so far, but she's normally blue and white when she's calm, but she turns blue and black when she's mad. She's black and nearly neon blue and flaring and darting against the bag trying to get at the other girls, so we peg her as clearly the most aggressive and start putting the girls in after a while, starting with the tiny new girls from Petco, a sweet little pale-mango one (Slingshot) and a white and red girl (Fireflight), and let them explore for a while since they're pretty much ignoring each other while they look around. Then we add Silverbolt since she's always seemed pretty docile and submissive, then the other new girl (yet unnamed) and then Skyfire, and Starscream last at somewhat irregular intervals. I was worried for the tinies that she'd bully them and hurt them, but Slingshot is spunky for a fish only 2/3rds her size, chases Starscream around and slaps her in the face with her tail. 

There's been some attempted bullying, Fireflight seems to be very timid and sweet, and the unnamed girl tried to corner her in some plants to beat her up, and Slingslot swam right up and smacked her around until Fireflight got away. A few girls have knicked tails from the skirmishing but things seem to have settled down, at least for now. Slingshot has claimed a corner with a moonrock and a nice tall plant as her own and nobody else had better _dare_ come over there because the pint-sized fry will chase them right back out. It's pretty funny in that regard, that I was so worried about her. 

So day 1 of a sorority tank - Hope I'm doing it right...


----------



## Myates

I want a sorority, and now that my BF is hinting that I am able to upgrade my tanks (squee!) soon, creating a sorority has came to my thoughts. I've dealt with territorial and aggressive fish in my past years of fish keeping (starting 16 some odd years ago) so I believe I can create an environment to keep the girls together and not have too many issues outside of the fact that you just never know depending upon personalities, etc. But the only thing I am unsure of is that... I do enjoy my boys and would like more because I love the one on one attention and personality with them. Do the females show that in a sorority or do you get that more when they are alone in a tank? I really want a female, just unsure how I want to go about having one (or more).


----------



## helms97

can a male be kept with 3 or 4 females?...i do not want to breed them


----------



## helms97

sorry if i asked this twice... i have not understood the website yet but can a male be kept with 3 or 4 females?... i do not want them to breed


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## Silverfang

A male cannot be housed with females (at least not for the inexperienced, or more precisely, by most people!). A male and a female should only be together for breeding, even then there are risks to death to either.


On an unrelated note, had the girls in together for 2 days now. 3 have nipped fins/tails. But otherwise things seem good. Pretty sure I know my alpha, she's the largest copper. I have one smallish white girl who is the star of the sorority. All six are now showing up at meal time. Biggest fights are over who can claim the betta log!


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## helms97

Oh.. Also with no relation to this topic.. Is it known at all for a female betta to become part of a school because i have 2 bettas(female) and one guppy and it seems like they are a school, they stick togethe and have never nipped or fought like school fish do.:lol:


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## copperarabian

definitively no for the males in a sorority if you don't have very much experience. Out of all my bettas I've only had one male who I could keep in my sorority, he's a king betta who is very docile. It's strange that he almost never flares, even when I'm floating my other males to let them flare at the girls.


----------



## Vanah

I'm DYING for a sorority, but I've just heard so many horror stories... I was wondering, if the tank was large enough to accommodate a small school of neons or another peaceful fish along with the sorority, would that help to further spread out aggression?


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## ggriffin411

*sorority fail*

I naively had a sorority of 3 in a heavily planted, lots of places to hide, other small fish for distraction, 10 gallon well established tank. I introduced the girls as I had seen recommended here before I got the courage to join the forum. Everything went well for six months and then all of a sudden one of them turned mean. Overnight one was dead, no marks on her but I assume killed by the aggressive one. I had to separate the other two and even a divider did not stop the aggression. I guess different fish have different personalities.


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## Silverfang

My girls are doing great! Almost one week, a few nipped fins, but nothing too severe. So hard to get good pictures, so I have a video!

http://s485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/Elis77/?action=view&current=VIDEO0051.mp4


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## Pitluvs

Started a 10g for females here the other day. We have 3 from a breeder who kept them together, and 2 from out LPS that keeps females together. So far there is some flaring from the black ct, but the other girls give her the room. I know everyone's spots already. Minimal chasing, no fighting or nipping. Hope to upgrade and add some more from our planned spawn.


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## Pataflafla

I currently have a sorority of 3 girls(used to be 5 but Frog and Oak passed away from parasites and unknown causes, and the alpha was killed by a cat before Sabino was introduced).

With only 3 and some ghost shrimp, they seem very content to be with each other and to steal the algae wafers from the shrimp. I actually don't think Sabino would do well in solitary life. she loves to see what's going on with everyone and be around other fish as well as explore every nook and cranny she can. the other two are sisters (we think since they look almost identical) and are very chill with everyone else.

We've got 2 more girls in qt to hopefully add to the sorority successfully since they're very young and small. And since they were kept in a sorority setting at Petsmart.

Overall, the sorority has beens et up for about 2 motnhs with no issues of major aggression other than Lyra (now separated and living solitary) and Hester (euthanized after a degenerative back issue and unstoppable bloating).


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## Vanah

Silverfang I love your girls! <3

Well I read up a bit more and decided to try it. I can't afford anymore Aquabid fish for a while, so I just looked around the local petstores and found a few cute girls. Carefully went about the acclimating process as suggested. So far the only risk I see for trouble is Mercedes, but all she's really doing is chasing everyone around. She's the alpha and Quinn doesn't seem to want to learn her place *just* yet. I think everyone's pretty much picked their areas, and a small school of neons helps to distract them when they start to congregate. It being the weekend I can keep a closer watch on them, but the prognosis for success seems high!


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## metalbetta

I know it can be a little scary at first, since there ARE so many horror stories out there about sororities. A lot of them end in disaster, like mine did. Buuut I can honestly say it was worth every single bit of trouble. I miss my girlies though. :/

Good luck with yours!


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## Silverfang

I went smart, I got 5 girls that had already been living together. The five were all spawned by the same person, so already sisters. I added one other one at the same time, and she was the one I was really worried about. She's brightened up since she got in the big heated tank.

I was so worried about the horror stories, that is what I'm worried about should I try to add any more.


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## Pataflafla

My sister and I put the two new girls in last night for a test run and everything went smoothly. they spent the night in the sorority and are now back in their divided tank. They're too small and fragile to keep with the girls all the time right now, but soon that'll be their permanent home.


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## Silverfang

I understand what you mean Pat, 5 of the 6 in mine are uh, how to put it, tiny. The alpha is huge. Most are the ones that must have had growth stunted by the hormones from the bigger ones. Luckily they all seem to be getting along well enough.


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## Pataflafla

I'd say the two new girls are less than 5 months old. They're itty bitty. The three established girls are on the rather large end of the female scale. They are about 3/4 the size of a female king (basing off the once alpha Tokyo who was killed by a cat).


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## Aquarianblue

Hello everyone,

I was wanting to start a sorority of bettas. I always thought it would be cool to have a small, community with a sorority. I've heard the horror stories to. At least a few. So I was wondering. Is it best to get siblings from a breeder, like I am kind of planning, or does them being siblings not really stop aggression?


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## Silverfang

It helps, but it won't stop all the aggression. I got five from an established tank with all the remaining girls from three spawns. Despite having lived together for months, when it was just the 5 of them (well six since I added a new one). Leadership was up for grabs. Not surprisingly the largest one claimed her place at the top of the totem pole. They will nip each other, and she will steal the lions share of food. So it doesn't completely negate aggression. BUT it does greatly lessen it.


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## Aquarianblue

That's good to know. I know someone on this site who is going to spawn soon, and I was gonna ask her about some siblings females for my sorority, as well as a sibling breeding pair. If that helps negate a good portion of the fighting, I'd rather wait, then buy females that don't know each other. My second question. say I had 6-8 siblings together. and I added two 'outsiders' female bettas. Would the siblings gang up on them?


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## Silverfang

That would depend on a few things. Like how long had they been together, did you rearrange the tank, and how aggressive are they. I haven't added any new females yet, I'm giving them more time before I do that.


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## Silverfang

Hmmmm... are my girls trying to tell me something? http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/Elis77/002.jpg


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## slonline

I wanna add that siblings CAN live together, MALES and FEMALES, for a long long long time These guys and gals are 5 month old HMPKs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo5ypYuLUzs


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## Sarahlydear

Just wanted to say that I recently started my own sorority and this helped a lot. Now I have a lovely tank and I absolutely adore it!  Thanks!!


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## thrsanne

Hey guys! Sorry if this question has already been asked, but does the shape of the tank matter? I have a 16g tank in my basement that isn't occupied, and was wondering if I can use it to start up a sorority. It's like one of those semi-circle tanks. Haha, thank you, it's a silly question, but I just want to be sure. XD


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## GienahClarette

Just so you guys know, I've had a lot of success using girls that came RIGHT from the growout in sister-sibling pairs. (4 pairs of 2 girls) My sorority is almost _eerily_ peaceful aside from a little chasing from the alpha female. But, she's too fat and slow to catch and hurt they other girls.


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## Thunderloon

thrsanne said:


> Hey guys! Sorry if this question has already been asked, but does the shape of the tank matter? I have a 16g tank in my basement that isn't occupied, and was wondering if I can use it to start up a sorority. It's like one of those semi-circle tanks. Haha, thank you, it's a silly question, but I just want to be sure. XD



Its actually a good, if deep, question.

Primarily Betta don't like really high water levels. They're happy in six inches, I had one Roundtail that liked three inch water so much he'd sit on top of a potted plant instead of anywhere else in the tank.

The problem with shallow water is it doesn't give *US* a pretty looking tank. Koi are happy in just about twice their body height which for a fish their size is rather odd, in this circumstance we like to keep them where we can see them. That said a tank that is thin from front to back keeps the fish out where we can see it, such as the "Betta Wave" tank from Aqua-tech, a 2.5g tank nearly as wide and tall as a full five gallon tank. 55g tanks are also tall and wide but have no off-wall depth. They're display tanks.

Generally I've found that the girls themselves are happy in just about any water volume as long as they have friendship and things to do. I've never had one feel dwarfed like the males can in 20g and 29g tanks when alone. (One male actually only played around in about 4g of a 10g.) So the question boils down to what is actually good for the sorority itself; passing lanes!

I'd say to limit the number of girls based on the bottom dimensions of the tank. Lemme find a link here... http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm

See where the 10g and 15g have the same bottom dimensions? The most girls I've ever had happy in a 10g is fourteen, believe it or not (and do NOT do it at home). If you're not awesomely experienced with heavy filtration equipment, plants, substrate, water quality control and fish health care don't ever violate the inch-gallon rule. When I had fourteen in the tank I had enough filtration for a 90 gallon tank running with highly optimized water flow and simply the stress on the water was too high, over-stocking "always" leads to crisis, many are controllable but all are of the deadly nature. Digress do I? So for a 15g tank of the 20x10 base dimensions I'd limit it to the same 8 or so girls that you'd have in a normal 10g tank. Make sure to cultivate some plants for the girl's emotional health if nothing else.

With proper filtration, lighting, plants and water control you can probably have twelve girls in the sixteen without ever having an issue involving tank load. Do everything but the fish first.

The other concern is the girls themselves. Some girls like to be alone, some girls like the buddy system and some girls run around saying HI! to everybody all day. For this reason the advice I give is "get five then get a new girl every other week but only if all the girls have a quiet place where they DO sit still. Betta sleep, they sleep deeply sometimes, and a lack of sleep can lead to irritability and aggression. Soft loose plants like Red Wendtii and Bronze Wendtii are great, I've had five or six girls nuzzle into the same plant and nap there. Plants like Anubias are bad because they're JUST plants (and Anubias especially because the girls can uproot it) and have no real use to the girls themselves.

So:
Don't exceed inch per gallon.
Don't have so many girls that they MUST get close to each other in order to get air.
Don't have so many girls that they can't all sleep at the same time.
Do have soft places to rest and hide that won't get uprooted or stuck.
Do have entertainment inside and outside the tank.

Do have plants. Betta love plants. Plants mean food to them, they're bug eaters and its wired deep in their heads. I raised Fluffy (male crown) without a plant then introduced him to one and he loved on it, spent time with it, cared for it, pushed them to safety when they were uprooted and he pined away at one that died. Really, sat and looked at it with fins drooped.

I'm gonna toss a target number at you of nine girls and suggest an Aquaclear 30 with airstone in bottom sponge or an Aquaclear 20 + 5g Hydro-Sponge. Aquaclear filters can be throttled up and down at will and need. Aeration itself kills more than half the aquatic bacteria that kill fish.


----------



## pyro fiend

wow thunder. you just blew my mind... at first i thought "ima scim this" tthen i ended up actually reading it i feel like Einstein of the betta sorority world now <3 lol thnx


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## HelloThere123Betta

Okay, I really want a sorority now!!


----------



## Silverfang

They are great fun, but can also cause to to yank you hair out.
Has having alternatives for treating ill fish been mentioned? Mentioning it again!
Plants, alive, fake, the more the better. I can't find my girls all the time, some are good and snuggling into the java fern or the money wort.

Yes they do sleep, and they can be as hard to wake as a teenager!
Some even need time to respond for food.

But when it's feeding time and 7 girls rush your fingers and are hopping over each other begging for blood worms... it's so rewarding


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## pyro fiend

silv u handfeed your girls? or ae they rushing cause there thinking "ZOMG FOOD!!!"


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## LittleBettaFish

All my females hand-feed in the sororities. One lot lives in a heavily planted black tub, so it can be hard to find them. However, I tap on the side and they've learned that means food.

I leave my hands in sometimes and let them swim through my fingers and have a pick at my skin. 

It's always funny watching them all try to shove each other out of the way when they're feeding.


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## Silverfang

I feed them with an eyedropper, but they know when that lid opens and my fingers appear, NOOOMMM!!! It doesn't matter if it's just my fingers or if there is food. When I keep them QTed for a week, they learn fingers are good and food and remember it into the sorority.

I had one so eager for me she swam into the spoon I use to scoop out water and landed in the tray with blood worms. She didn't care she was a fish outta water, she was the happiest fish there was.


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## LittleBettaFish

Haha that reminds me when one of my males managed to jump out of his tank and land exactly in the 1/2 gallon container I had the bloodworms thawing in. The water hadn't been dechlorinated and was cold, but he didn't care.

I've never seen a betta eat so many bloodworms in the few seconds he was in there. I think he knew it was too good an opportunity to be wasted.


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## Silverfang

yup!
I'm just so sad, she passed away a few days after, from an unrelated columnarious outbreak. She was my favorite, white dragonscaled girl, smallish, but she was unafraid and always front and center. She was my diva, I miss you Isis.


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## LittleBettaFish

I'm always freaked out by all these stories of females in sororities coming down with columnaris. I've always wondered whether the underlying stress of living together is what causes these outbreaks to occur, or whether it has something to do with the 'overstocking' to minimize aggression that is generally recommended.


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## pyro fiend

u guys are making me want a sororitie so bad now n my fam says "NO MORE PETS" lol i only hav 5 fish total[2betta 2 goldie 1 pleco]1 snake and like 70 feeder rats -.- lol it isnt enough XD [they dont know how many rats i have they think its like 10 or 11 i think lolol]


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## Silverfang

I made the rookie mistake of not QTing fish. From a store that does not take good care of their pets I realize. Never buying from there again.


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## pyro fiend

ya id get mine slowly or all from same spawn from sum1 on here or somethin. if i dont get them from a spawn ima QT ea for like a month month n a half. and then see how there aggression is twards males and reflections the ones that are like LA DE DA will go first the "RAWR LEME AT EM" will go last


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## kfryman

Good post I want another betta or a sorority but my mom thinks I'm crazy. All i want is a ten gallon and a 2.5


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## Guppie luver

Sororitys are so worth it just keep the temp solid and the quality good.


----------



## Tikibirds

> I'm always freaked out by all these stories of females in sororities coming down with columnaris. I've always wondered whether the underlying stress of living together is what causes these outbreaks to occur, or whether it has something to do with the 'overstocking' to minimize aggression that is generally recommended.


Hmmm...

I would say it's unrelated to stress. All my girls came from either walmart or petco (sorry but im not shipping a fish from Thailand to Alaska), different ages, different sizes. I had some girls that when they were in a smaller tank alone they were an ugly olive color and stress striped. Nothing I did seemed to fix it till I started a girls tank. After a few days in it, the stripes were gone and they colored up to be some of the most beautiful fish I have seen. :shock: 

I highly recommned having meds for such things like velvet, ick and columnaris on hand before setting up a sorority. I dont have access to alot of the meds locally and by the time they would arrive via amazon.com, the fish will be long gone.


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## mjoy79

Tikibirds said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I would say it's unrelated to stress. All my girls came from either walmart or petco (sorry but im not shipping a fish from Thailand to Alaska), different ages, different sizes. I had some girls that when they were in a smaller tank alone they were an ugly olive color and stress striped. Nothing I did seemed to fix it till I started a girls tank. After a few days in it, the stripes were gone and they colored up to be some of the most beautiful fish I have seen. :shock:


I agree. the only time my girls lose color and develop stress stripes is when I cup them for water changes. They hate it! Even though they nip at each other occasionally, I think they enjoy each other's company!


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## kfryman

I have a question how frequently do you add them, I already know to add 2 or 3 at a time but how long can you add more?


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## bettafish15

I added mine in as quick as I could one by one.


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## LittleBettas

Soon....
I havemy 10 gallon tank that will be set up tomorrow...
my girls have been shipped out today  (planning to QT them for a few days to watch for any signs of stress orany problems from shipping)
Im so excited!!!!


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## mjoy79

kfryman said:


> I have a question how frequently do you add them, I already know to add 2 or 3 at a time but how long can you add more?


i added all 5 of mine at the same time. that way none of them start setting up territories before other girls get added.


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## kfryman

Alright thanks mjoy. Some people said that adding all of them at the same time can cause ammonia spikes but i guess I can always clean the tank more until it gets use to the ammonia.


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## bettacrazymichelle

This thread has been very helpful. I started my sorority of 5 ladies in a 10 gallon recently. I lost one girl and am now having problems with aggression again. I woke up to some new chunks missing on fins.  Just as they had been healing too!

Do you think this means I should go get 1-3 more ladies? :-/ 

It's very densely planted w/ real & silk plants, a piece of Mobani driftwood and a vase decor piece with a nice big hole in it.


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## thinkrevolutionx

In my experience, bettas will fight the first day or two. 

Bettas will also literally bully to death any sick fish. You telling me that you had last one fish indicates that perhaps there is something going around (bettas generally don't up and die) 

More girls the better. Search for my other thread where I document a 10+ betta sorority in a 29 gallon if you want to see how i do it.


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## LittleBettas

bettacrazymichelle said:


> This thread has been very helpful. I started my sorority of 5 ladies in a 10 gallon recently. I lost one girl and am now having problems with aggression again. I woke up to some new chunks missing on fins.  Just as they had been healing too!
> 
> Do you think this means I should go get 1-3 more ladies? :-/
> 
> It's very densely planted w/ real & silk plants, a piece of Mobani driftwood and a vase decor piece with a nice big hole in it.


 
With the missing girl, they will have to reestablish their pecking order, you can get one or two more girls, but three would be to many (7 would be the max for a 10 gallon) you would need to remove all of the girls and re-arrange everything though and then add the old girls and the new ones....


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## LittleBettas

thinkrevolutionx said:


> You telling me that you had last one fish indicates that perhaps there is something going around (bettas generally don't up and die)


 
Only one of her girls died, she wants to know if she should get another (oops!)

And I hate to sound rude (if this comes off as rude)... but I read through your sorority thread and I just wanted to point out this:



thinkrevolutionx said:


> (bettas generally don't up and die)


 


thinkrevolutionx said:


> Bettas unfortunately are a pretty heart breaking species. I have found them very prone to all manner of diseases and bacteria, and often they will just show up dead for no discernible reason.


 
I hate to be rude, but I know a lot of times people can word things wrong or take things the wrong way, I know you didn't realize it (I have done it) but only one of her girls died (not only one is alive)... and having recently lost some of my bettas (power outage) I know how sensitive the topic to a loss is...


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## bettacrazymichelle

I'm pretty sure I lost her due to an ammonia spike. I had been out of test strips. I got new ones yesterday after losing her and yikes. I've been doing regular 50% water changes, but I didn't cycle. (I know, I know. I have a tendency to impulsive, but these girls looked SO sad at Petsmart that I had to save them.) I'm on top of the ammonia issue and will not add any other fish until I am SURE that it is under control.

There are 4 right now, so 3 more would make the max of 7. Ruby, the runt, seems to be the one doing the bullying now. I'm tempted to put her in her own tank and get 2 more girls that are around the same size of my other 3 girls still living.

And yes, of course I'd rearrange the entire tank before adding the new ladies.


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## LittleBettas

bettacrazymichelle said:


> I'm pretty sure I lost her due to an ammonia spike. I had been out of test strips. I got new ones yesterday after losing her and yikes. I've been doing regular 50% water changes, but I didn't cycle. (I know, I know. I have a tendency to impulsive, but these girls looked SO sad at Petsmart that I had to save them.) I'm on top of the ammonia issue and will not add any other fish until I am SURE that it is under control.
> 
> There are 4 right now, so 3 more would make the max of 7. Ruby, the runt, seems to be the one doing the bullying now. I'm tempted to put her in her own tank and get 2 more girls that are around the same size of my other 3 girls still living.
> 
> And yes, of course I'd rearrange the entire tank before adding the new ladies.


Does the tank have a filter?
You can try putting Ruby in a "time out" (a plastic container so she can see what everyone else is up to) for a while to see if that helps, but some gals just aren't cut out for sorority life, lol
Good luck!


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## bettacrazymichelle

Thank you LittleBettas. It is sad.  I think little "Red" was just a bit more sensitive than the other girls since she was in pretty rough shape (as they were) when I saved them from their filthy PetSmart cups. I feel pretty awful about it. The other girls are a little twitchy still, but the ammonia levels are testing in the ideal to safe range now. Going to keep up with frequent 25% water changes over the next few weeks until my cycle is obviously settling down. I think I just didn't change out enough times last week with the holidays and my birthday. I still did 2 changes, but probably should have been doing at least 25% every other day.


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## LittleBettas

bettacrazymichelle said:


> Thank you LittleBettas. It is sad.  I think little "Red" was just a bit more sensitive than the other girls since she was in pretty rough shape (as they were) when I saved them from their filthy PetSmart cups. I feel pretty awful about it. The other girls are a little twitchy still, but the ammonia levels are testing in the ideal to safe range now. Going to keep up with frequent 25% water changes over the next few weeks until my cycle is obviously settling down. I think I just didn't change out enough times last week with the holidays and my birthday. I still did 2 changes, but probably should have been doing at least 25% every other day.


It is always sad to loose a betta, they really are one of a kind fishes, and since Red and the others were Petsmart bettas, they probably already had damage from ammonia :/
Do you have live plants? I know they help out with ammonia, since the tank wasn't cycled, the sudden addition of the fishies would have caused it to spike fast (Im not a expert on it, but I think thats what people say, lol)


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## bettacrazymichelle

LittleBettas said:


> Does the tank have a filter?
> You can try putting Ruby in a "time out" (a plastic container so she can see what everyone else is up to) for a while to see if that helps, but some gals just aren't cut out for sorority life, lol
> Good luck!


Yup, it has a filter. 

I may try that today. Poor Big Bertha (submissive) is getting beat up by the little stinker. I had been worried about her from the get go, but she seemed to reach an agreement with the other dominant and kinda became "2nd in command", but apparently, things have changed. :-/


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## bettacrazymichelle

LittleBettas said:


> Do you have live plants? I know they help out with ammonia, since the tank wasn't cycled, the sudden addition of the fishies would have caused it to spike fast (Im not a expert on it, but I think thats what people say, lol)


I have anacharis, anubias and wisteria in there. I also have tannins in the water from my mopani driftwood. Just ordered some almond leaves to help out too.


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## LittleBettas

bettacrazymichelle said:


> Yup, it has a filter.
> 
> I may try that today. Poor Big Bertha (submissive) is getting beat up by the little stinker. I had been worried about her from the get go, but she seemed to reach an agreement with the other dominant and kinda became "2nd in command", but apparently, things have changed. :-/


Thats what happened with me, when I removed Eurydice (aggressive female) everyone else started chasing again (few nipped fins was the worst) and now the new alpha is Merle with Dragon as number 2 (before Dice was just beating up everyone and her and Omen were getting into it BAD) sororitys are FUN... but a very delicate balance, lol


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## LittleBettas

bettacrazymichelle said:


> I have anacharis, anubias and wisteria in there. I also have tannins in the water from my mopani driftwood. Just ordered some almond leaves to help out too.


Im not 100% sure, but I think some tannis can cause the water to spike fast.... pH wise I think.... Im not sure if it affect ammonia though (someone on her did a really cool experiment on it)


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## BettaHeart

This is the sorority i had about 2 months ago.


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## thinkrevolutionx

I've never had a new betta die (unless they jumped) mostly some of my older girls would just end up floating one day, while being fine the day before :\ that's what I had meant by my statement. It's not rude no worries.


If I had just gotten juvenille bettas (as it had seemed here) and I had lost one, and the others were being aggressive, I would look to water parameters (as was mentioned a possible ammonia spike) or a disease that they came with that you haven't picked up on.

As I have said, in my experience they are very peaceful with some very very rare exceptions (wild fish personalities) and only become nasty with each other when establishing pecking order, or if there is sickness about.


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## LittleBettas

BettaHeart said:


> This is the sorority i had about 2 months ago.
> 
> View attachment 44543


 
CUTE!!! I LOVE doubletails!!!!


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## BettaHeart

LittleBettas said:


> CUTE!!! I LOVE doubletails!!!!


Its like pulling teeth trying to find dt ct and hm females here so Zanskar was a great find, especially given that she was one out of four that had survived, the others as well as the ones at the lps didnt last long. i also have a little blue ct female but she is on her own mainly due to her abmornal belly shape (dont think she is eggy) the two yellows were also unburied treasure lol


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## bettacrazymichelle

LittleBettas said:


> Thats what happened with me, when I removed Eurydice (aggressive female) everyone else started chasing again (few nipped fins was the worst) and now the new alpha is Merle with Dragon as number 2 (before Dice was just beating up everyone and her and Omen were getting into it BAD) sororitys are FUN... but a very delicate balance, lol


Yeah they are delicate. I currently have Ruby on a time out, but I think she's going to be moved to her own tank. I'm going to get 2 more ladies soon. I was always worried about Ruby. She was super aggressive from the get-go and now it seems to have been taken to a whole new level. The other 3 ladies get along fine, but Ruby.. man. She is a tough little gal. I think she's going to get her own home in my office.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

I'd love to start up a sorority.  It seems hard!


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## bettacrazymichelle

I just wanted to update. I tried to do time outs with Ruby, but it didn't work. She was just not happy as a sorority lady. Now I have 3 remaining ladies. They're all doing really well together and healing. I've been trying to get 2 more, but the local chain stores have only had 2-3 females in stock the past week and only got 1 additional one at each store in today's delivery. To top it all, they're all tiny, like could be eaten alive by my ladies.  So for right now, it's a sorority of three. I'm going to drive to some indie fish stores this weekend to see if I can find two more ladies or buy through aquabid if I have to. I don't want this to turn into a disaster due to only having three.


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## mjoy79

did you have any luck finding 2 more for your sorority? I'd be scared to leave 3 by themselves - maybe you can cup them until you can add all of them together?


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## bettacrazymichelle

No luck yet. It seems every pet & fish store within 20 miles is sold out of female bettas or only has really tiny ones! They are actually all getting along REALLY well and healing nicely. I will cup them if I see the slightest sign of aggression, but for now, I don't want to mess with a good thing until I find the right ladies to add to the gang.


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## MissRockyHorror

Thanks DQ this is a very helpful post  I have 5 girls but I will probably get a 6th when I go get the heater/filter


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## Crownvail

Thanks for that advise. It really will help.


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## littlemermaid

Hopefully this shows up in the right spot, I am new to forums  I have recently become a Betta addict and after doing my research (largely thanks to this site and sticky) I started my 5 girl sorority last week and they are all doing wonderfully! I have always had fish since I was little but I just adore these girls!!! Now if only my male veil tail was as loving, he mostly flares and gives me the stink eye from his cave, what personalities!!


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## Bombalurina

I actually found that adding a tiny girl to my sorority worked quite well. Little Circe was less than half the length of the other girls and I think they mistook her for a tetra. Her tiny size enabled her to hide until she was more confident and the bigger girls just ignored her. By the time she started muscling in on the food and becoming a proper sorority girl, they were totally used to her. I was really worried about adding her because she was so tiny, but it worked out really well.


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## a123andpoof

Okay so I am in the process of starting a sorority! Very exited it's 10 gallons so far 3 caves and 6 plastic plants. Will be getting more plants probably around 6-9 more and 2 more spots to hide. I plan on starting with around 4 girls, and then adding 2 more later on. Does this sound good?
All the girls will be coming from petco, petsmart and/or walmart or LPS. I will be getting the healthiest I can find. Do I need to QT? I have two QT tanks, but only one extra heater. I could keep them in their cups for a few days and try just floating them in the tank, change water daily and just keep an eye out. But if things look okay I would just like to put them in the 10 gallon.
I would guess the less flaring they do at each other the better chances they have of getting along? Any other hints or tips would be great as this is my first sorority and I would like it to work. If things don't work out with 1 or 2 of the girls I do have a backup plans for them, just not QT tanks.


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## EmilyN

a123andpoof said:


> Do I need to QT? I have two QT tanks, but only one extra heater. I could keep them in their cups for a few days and try just floating them in the tank, change water daily and just keep an eye out. But if things look okay I would just like to put them in the 10 gallon.
> I would guess the less flaring they do at each other the better chances they have of getting along? Any other hints or tips would be great as this is my first sorority and I would like it to work. If things don't work out with 1 or 2 of the girls I do have a backup plans for them, just not QT tanks.


I am in the beginning stages of my sorority as well. I have all six of my girls. They all look healthy but I think its still best to QT them all.

My girls are floating in their cups in the tank and I do water changes every day. I'm floating them until they have all been in QT for a week.

This way they also get to know each other a little without any fin damage 
I even have one girl who shows stress lines if she cant see her friend. As soon as I put their cups next to each other again, she's happy and colors back up.

Also If you float your girls, check to make sure their cups don't tip over. Mine like to and I had one get out of the hole at the top. I rearranged the whole tank right after I had JUST finished setting it up so that she wont recognize it when they finally all go in.

Hope I helped


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## a123andpoof

Okay, whats the best way to clean their cups without totally stressing them out? Just slowly pour half the water out and slowly add new water?


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## EmilyN

I released 6 females into my 10g on thursday. At first there was mostly chasing and hardly any bites.

Today I came home from work to find that one of the girls (who seems to get chased and bit more than the rest do) has had her fins torn pretty badly. I isolated the fish that I think is responsible. (she chases and bites most of the other girls as well, just not as bad)

Now I don't know what to do.
Should I take her (the attacker) out of the sorority permanently and replace her with a new fish? Give it time and reintroduce her (if so how long should I wait?)? Let her go back in now and let them all figure out the pecking order? 

Please Help!


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## purplemuffin

Try having the aggressive girl separated in the tank(floating in a cup or something) so she can see the other girls but can't get to them. Let her stay in 'time out' for about a week, and it should help calm her down..If it doesn't, she just might not be fit for a sorority. Let the injured girl heal and she can probably be released back pretty safely with the bully separated


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## icyfishgirl

5.5 wouldn't work for a sorority?


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## Myates

Nope... 10 is bare minimum and even then it's rather small for a sorority..

Have to keep in mind, females, by nature, do not like nor want to live with other females and they can be just as aggressive as males.
But since females don't set up a specific territory naturally, we can try to keep them living together in a very densely planted tank.. with minimum 4/5 girls.
The densely planted is to help break up the lines of sight, and the number is to help spread out aggression.

In a smaller tank, such as a 5 gallon, there is not enough tank to hold the bio load that 5 girls would produce, there is not enough swimming space which will cause the girls to feel trapped and become more aggressive to the others, and there is not enough space to give them their own room. 

Sororities are tricky at best, and should always be prepared for them to fail.. as most first time hobbyists will experience failures at some point, whether it be a month or a year after set up.
Even experienced keepers/breeders will have issues at some point. All it takes is one female having a "bad day" and attack/kill every other female she sees.
So a small tank is definitely a no-no.


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## kmylan

*adding new fish*

I set up my sorority about 2 months ago and all was fine until just recently. Wanda the Alpha is stressing the other two out. Lots of people have advised not to have 3 but to have 4 or 5 in a sorority and I guess I thought my girls were special. So, right now Wanda is in solitary confinement; Florence and Goldie Hawn are so much happier that they can explore their tank. My question is -- *should I introduce one or two more females*??? Thanks.


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## Sena Hansler

I have had 4 females together. Most people say "only odd numers" but no... preferably, 4 or more. It evens it out... You could add a couple more girls. Be warned there WILL be fin nipping and some chasing... but this is to establish a new alpha.  The way I found that worked best... is have your new girls, quarantine them (highly suggest this!!! 2 weeks!), then when you are ready to add.... do a water change for your sorority, rearrange everything, then put them in. This makes them chart new territory


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## kmylan

thanks, Sena. When I set up the sorority there was some chasing and nipping for a little while, maybe a week or 10 days, and then they were all happy and peaceful. Wanda just went rogue. Now that she is in solitary, Florence is chasing Goldie Hawn, but not nipping her (yet). I don't like the idea of leaving the two of them alone but it will have to be. I'll see if I can find a couple of healthy females today. 
Any suggestion on sizes? Wanda is a good sized female; Goldie Hawn is tiny. Should I get a larger one to counterbalance Wanda?


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## Sena Hansler

Try to get an inbetween. For instance, Rose was the baby baby :lol: she was bullied A LOT and she is at the bottom of the list, now. Marge is alpha, her sister Tina is second in line, and Zebra, the largest girl, is third. Actually I've had Marge and Tina together first and there were no problems. They got along very well.. But I knew more was better so I got two more (also siblings). After that any female I tried to add seemed too small to add, or were bullied badly, by them ganging up. even after adding them correctly...  Now I have females equal to size if not a little smaller  to add


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## kmylan

Picked up two more girls. I have their cups floating in the aquarium. Florence and Goldie Hawn are investigating. One of the new girls is a Crowntail. She looks like she wants out of the cup now. I bet she'll give Wanda a run.


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## Sena Hansler

haha!! just check them over thoroughly. my one girl has ich... now powdered with them pesky buggers!!! the other girl is perfectly fine.


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## mjoy79

kmylan said:


> Picked up two more girls. I have their cups floating in the aquarium. Florence and Goldie Hawn are investigating. One of the new girls is a Crowntail. She looks like she wants out of the cup now. I bet she'll give Wanda a run.


You may have already done this but when introducing new girls to a sorority, it would be best to go ahead and cup all of them and rearrange the decor, etc so that the new girls don't get beat up on for invading the older girls space. 
How are they doing?


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## Sena Hansler

I agree. my 4 girls, have literally made a "gang" in the fish world. They don't care if everything is rearranged, they'll attack to kill and destroy. I have to take them out, and rearrange, do a water change... then add the newbies first, the oldies next. :lol: I put the meanest last usually. It's usually a "just in case" thing  I'd love hearing about how well you got it going!


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## kmylan

Thanks for the tips! Annie is still cupped in the aquarium and doing OK. Flo and GH check her out a lot. Wanda is still isolated in a 2.5 gallon bowl and I just put GK in a 2.5 gallon bowl. She kept trying to jump out of the cup and whacking her head on the top. *I need to keep the newbies isolated 2 weeks, right? *


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## Sena Hansler

That would be best, yes. For some diseases or illnesses it takes a couple days to a couple weeks to pop up. By then you should know for sure they are healthy  If I had added my pineapple girl (who I now name Ditsy because she seems to have less braincells than other females I have....) I would've had an outbreak of ich in my 29!!! yuck!


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## kmylan

OK, two weeks it is! Seems like such a long way off.


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## Sena Hansler

It does, but it goes by faster than you think  plus, it is well worth it in the end haha.

do you have a back up if they don't get along? some females just cannot be in a sorority.


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## kmylan

I have the smaller bowls if I need to remove them but this is definitely not a long term solution. I can't afford to buy another new 10 gallon but I am looking for a used one. The one I have is at work; my staff team and our clients love the aquarium! I want a second (back up tank) at home. So if Wanda doesn't get her act together I will eventually take her home!


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## Sena Hansler

That is a good idea  even if you can find a 3-5 gallon and a heater for it... that would work for her.


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## cp6445

Thanks for the post!!


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## makoisland

Wow, I cannot believe I read almost 300 comments in one day. 

But I'm glad I did. I'm now very interested in starting a sorority down the road, hopefully sometime this year. Til then I will read as much about them as I can so that I can be as prepared as possible.


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## Myates

I know.. it can get addicting sometimes. You start to read and before you know it, you've been on the forums for hours lol

Sororities are great and a challenge.. definitely ask questions, create a thread when you are ready (or whenever) to set up and we will be happy to answer! You will get some good opinions and ideas


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## Sena Hansler

Definitely a challenge! Treating one betta is hard enough. Treating 4+ and making sure each one is improving... lol! well, that is more interesting. And sometimes complicated! especially if the bettas are worse than my dogs LOL for the personalities I mean.


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## mjoy79

I love my sorority and I really think that it is successful due to the advice I've read here. In fact i wouldn't have even thought of keeping a large group of female bettas together had it not been for these forums. 
I'm so glad I do tho because these girls are awesome! Girls are so much fun! I love my boys too but they're so different - they're divas - needing certain things to be happy. lol 
the girls just go with the flow and are always happy. - well as long as they think you're going to feed them. I've learned not to have the water level too high in their tank because there's a chance at least one will jump right out!


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## Sena Hansler

:lol: that's right!! My tank for my gals have a mesh topping. This ensures NO escapees through the regular tank hood styles.


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## mjoy79

My only escape happened when I was feeding. Never had any issues as long as hood is shut and girls are swimming regularly.


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## Sena Hansler

:lol: mine jump up to 4 inches x.x So I no longer tust my goofs xD


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## makoisland

Yikes, someone needs to tell them they're fish, not horses. lol


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## Bombalurina

I have an open-topped tank on my sorority...every time I hear a splash in the night I have to get up and check that no one has jumped out. I think having lots of floating plants discourages them, though.


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## EmilyN

I have an open topped tank too and none of my girls even jump at all. Even without floating plants.


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## kmylan

I love my sorority but it is a LOT more work and expense than I thought.


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## Thunderloon

kmylan said:


> I love my sorority but it is a LOT more work and expense than I thought.


Aye, and if you have enough girls you're always losing someone precious.
Per girl tho it works out to be the cheapest way to have so many betta.


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## Sena Hansler

true!! I have 6, and sadly 2 for sure have columnaris from a previous transfer from a gal I used to have. :/ the other 2 are iffy, and then the other 2 are new and in quarantine anyways lol!! -sigh- I don't have space no more :/ :lol:


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## kmylan

My new fish have been released along with the original three and all is well. Grace Kelly keeps Wanda in line, none bother the two smaller fish, and Florence is still the It Girl -- Wanda and GK chase her. But, so far, no major trauma. Trying to figure out how to upload photos....


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## kmylan




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## Pod

I am prepping all my girls for the 10 gallon tank ahead of time, since it wont be here until April 2nd. I have 6 females, two of which are Plakats, one CT and 3 VT's. The two plakats pretty much fought each other the two times they were placed. I decided to do a risky move; place my oldest female, whom is a VT, into the tank they are all in.

In the past, the older VT chased everyone around endlessly. They all know to avoid her, except the two PK's.

She was placed into the tank, and one of my PK's began tail-slapping her, which she responded to. The result was the two dukeing it out for two minutes before the PK submitted to her superiority. The 2nd PK watched all this from the safety of her plant. One PK is pretty much put in place, as i had hoped.

The other? She was hiding the time that Sam[my oldest VT] was in the tan. After putting sam into her respective cup and floating her, the tank is much calmer.

I know that this was a very risky doing, but, the two PK's were fighting like two males, even though they are all females. Wether or not it was to figure out who was top-dog, I decided to put a quick stop to it the best way i could; Sam.

She put one PK in its place, aswell as reminding the other girls that she remains top dog. It was a risky doing, i'll admit, but. It worked. She is now in her respective cup, floating in the tank.


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## kfryman

Sometimes if you have a bunch of mean girls you will need a very strong girl to stop them from fighting. I have a girl that is a fighter, if any of the girls try to become algae and fights her she wins the fight with a ripped fin. That is literally the most damage I have seen on her, one tear.

I love my sorority just because I can keep 5 females all at once. I may get more down the road since it is a 15 gallon tank. Just watch out for diseases, just setting up my sorority before I added any fish I had one death, then I had another death after the first day. They were cupped for the night and that is when one of the girls died, still not sure on the disease.


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## Pod

Yeah. Sam is my most aggressive girl. She has a few torn bottom fins, but, that was because the cup tipped over and a girl got on by accident, thus, the two fighting it out because it was such a small space. I removed the girl, though, and Sam pretty much only has 3 tears on her bottom fin. Makes her look like a VT with three fins at the bottom, though. . .

I hoped that i did the correct thing by placing Sam in, and I did.


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## Sena Hansler

I gotta get Marge back in the game x.x she let her sister Tina get mauled by meaner Zebra - who just went senile. All isolated now :-( -sigh- sororities are hard!


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## kmylan

Florence just ate an entire pea. I was trying to smush off pieces of it and spread it around among my girls when my phone rang, it startled me, and in went the pea. Florence latched on and took off with it, and just swallowed the entire pea! I bet she gets a stomach ache.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

I don't think peas are good for bettas as they are insectivores. :/


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## kmylan

peas help their digestion. I feed them a pea once every couple of weeks. They normally share the pea.


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## mjoy79

i haven't fed any of my bettas peas at all and they digest their food fine. I used to fast 1 day a week but now i just fast 2-3 meals a week (usually dinner) and everyone is doing great!


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## Sena Hansler

there is controversy on the pea.... some say yes, some say no. I just say, be warned how much you feed as it doesn't really break down for them... I'd prefer the other method, frozen daphnia :lol: But, I just fast a day of the week, and never have had a problem.


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## kmylan

Interesting. I don't feed my fish on Sundays and sometimes not on Saturdays if I'm out of town. I've read in several places that the peas are good for Bettas and mine LOVE the pea. When they see it coming they jump -- more than for the shrimp, bloodworm, or flakes I feed them.


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## Sena Hansler

When we had the huge amount of mosquitos (our place only hatches dragonflies to rid us of these horrible pests...no pesticides!!!) I fed them to everyone xD They LUNGED out of the water and you can hear their jaws go: "snap!" O_O


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## kmylan

I've heard they love the mosquito larvae!! Wish I could treat my girls to some. Where I live the mosquito truck comes through a couple of times a night to spray pesticide all over. Yuck. Florence seems to be doing OK but she sure is fat right now.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

Sena Hansler said:


> When we had the huge amount of mosquitos (our place only hatches dragonflies to rid us of these horrible pests...no pesticides!!!) I fed them to everyone xD They LUNGED out of the water and you can hear their jaws go: "snap!" O_O


LMAO :lol: How many girls are in your sorority, Sena?


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## Sena Hansler

Right now? 4... They are all under quarantine however due to a disease outbreak :/ almost under control, and I did have 2 more to add but the one gal didn't live through ich  so, I have 5, to make back into a sorority.  And it is always the smallest one to steal the largest piece of anything and high tail it to gulp it down and swim around with a fat belly x.x


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

Sena Hansler said:


> Right now? 4... They are all under quarantine however due to a disease outbreak :/ almost under control, and I did have 2 more to add but the one gal didn't live through ich  so, I have 5, to make back into a sorority.  And it is always the smallest one to steal the largest piece of anything and high tail it to gulp it down and swim around with a fat belly x.x


 I thought you had 8 girls. xD I don't think I could handle a sorority . . . a lot of fishy drama in one tank. lolz


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## Sena Hansler

haha I was trying to get it to 8... my rescues Sarah and Suzi didn't make it despite an awesome amount of recovery. Ditsy didn't make it from ich (seriously?? something simple too...) so, just 5  there IS a lot of fishy drama xD not just one fish gets sick.... x.x


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

And I though guppy fin-rot treatment was a pain . . . lmao


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## Sena Hansler

Only problem, is they do not "need" 5 gallons minimum. On yahooanswers they'll argue with you to the death to say YES 5 gallons cycled only otherwise you are a horrible person who doesn't have the right to own a fish, or live. (and I know this because they gang up on everyone who owns a betta!) Or aeration, or filtration. Those are mainly extras, but I have half my bettas living in non-filtered tanks  

But overall, I guess it's an interesting read. thanks for sharing.


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## BettasRpeople2

*New Sorority*

I set up a brand new sorority this weekend. The girls are doing great! There has been very little chasing and not even a ripped fin so far. Everyone seems to get along really well. My cambodian CT, Cinder, will chase every once in a while, (I think she is probably the alpha) but it has been very minor. I hope it stays that way. 

I have one girl QT'd that will join them when I am sure she is healthy since I found her at Walmart. She was too pretty to leave, but my Walmart takes horrible care of their bettas.  She seems to be doing alright and is finally spreading her fins a bit, so I am hoping she will have a clean bill of health once she recovers from the stress and, undoubtedly, ammonia. I think she will fit right in with the others. When I had them all together in their cups, she did not seem to be nearly as aggressive as some of the others were.

I will post some pics of my tank and the girls when I find my camera and cord. I have six girls (plus the one to join later) and 3 ghost shrimps in a 25 gal, so everyone has lots of room. I feel sorry for the shrimps, though because the girls eat their food before the poor things really have a chance. What pigs! ;-)

I have three that have big Buddha bellies which I am guessing is because they have eggs. How long do they typically stay that way, and how do you know if they are eggy or if it is something else (like overeating, mmhmm...pigs)? :roll:


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## Sena Hansler

I think it is different for each female betta... My one gal, Rose, barely gets an eggy belly. While Marge looks like she will explode, which passes in three days.. Tina passes that in about a week. :lol:


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## MrsFeatherbottom

kmylan said:


> I've heard they love the mosquito larvae!! Wish I could treat my girls to some. Where I live the mosquito truck comes through a couple of times a night to spray pesticide all over. Yuck. Florence seems to be doing OK but she sure is fat right now.


I wish I could too. I found out from a local breeder that it's illegal to purposely leave stagnant water out. I live in Florida, so it's understandable..yet the perfect place for fresh Betta food.


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## makoisland

A couple questions regarding sororities:

One, how much fighting is acceptable? I know that in the first couple days they will have to establish a sort of pecking order; and it seems fairly natural that they will bicker every once in a while. And of course, if there's one who is overly aggressive to the point of hurting the others, she will have to be removed, correct? But I'd like to be prepared and not freak out every time one fish lunges at another. 

Two-- is it true that bettas will try to attack other bettas that are the same color? I've heard that if the fish are different colors, they're not as likely to fight, but I've also heard that this isn't true at all. Any clarification/experiences/even opinions would be great. :lol:


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## Silverfang

I like to use a breeder box. You can just stick one in it for a day or two and she will have a "time out". Just keep in mind some girls are a no go for sororities period. Some are like males, destined to live alone.


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## Bombalurina

makoisland said:


> A couple questions regarding sororities:
> 
> One, how much fighting is acceptable? I know that in the first couple days they will have to establish a sort of pecking order; and it seems fairly natural that they will bicker every once in a while. And of course, if there's one who is overly aggressive to the point of hurting the others, she will have to be removed, correct? But I'd like to be prepared and not freak out every time one fish lunges at another.
> Don't worry - most chases will be over in a few seconds, and rarely will you get anything more than an occasional fin nip. I rarely even get that much - my girls just sort of move vaguely towards each other, then one swims away.
> 
> Two-- is it true that bettas will try to attack other bettas that are the same color? I've heard that if the fish are different colors, they're not as likely to fight, but I've also heard that this isn't true at all. Any clarification/experiences/even opinions would be great. :lol:
> I haven't seen this. My mustard gas girl and my red girl tend to be the most aggressive - my two blue girls and my bluey-green girl rarely attack each other.


This is just my personal experience, of course. All sororities are different - I've been lucky in that mine is entirely stress-free.


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## Sena Hansler

Oh, for the color question... Take El Dorado for example. He did not react, with any dark colors, which is why he wouldn't breed. He chilled out with the female.  However, I tested, and he reacted to a brighter male, Shiloh, who is purple.

I have all blues with one red, females. No problems, really. Some people even have giants in with regulars, and no problems


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## brettwashere

Hi guys, having problem with my first sorority. I started the 10 gal tank with plenty of live plants and hiding places. Then placed 5 "females" I got from a breeder and one I crown tail I already had, floating in cups. At first everything was ok, the about 30 mins the blue turned out to be a small male. The remaining 5 chased a bit and the was some nipping and I had to time out 1 other fish. When I took this fish out the smaller girls got real aggressive and two ended up with torn fins so I took them both out. I big the first time out fish back in and only mild chasing ensued. A day later I put the smallest female back in and shortly after she took a chunk of fin and a few scales out of a third fish. I took her out immediately. Of the three fish still in the tank 2 are mostly uninjured, and one is the first "time out" fish who is now being the bully. Total of three injured ( badly torn fins) fish. Very disheartened. I don't like to see my fish hurt each other and not sure how much is too much. Do I need to be separating my injured fish for treatment and risk another rough patch trying to re-introduce them, treat the whole tank? My friends are always impressed by my fish and now the girls are looking really sad. Considering just separating them all, but I don't have the tanks to pull it off. Any problem keeping males next to females in divided tanks where they can see each other? I had to move on female next to another male and she's ready to breed already. Is this very stressful if I don't plan on breeding them? Sorry so long


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## Sena Hansler

I wouldn't divide gals and males because they both release smells, which the male can get stressed, and/or the female can get stressed. You may need to rearrange your tank completely, do a water change with gravel siphoning, add conditioned water, and float them in cups. You can tape the cups to the side of the tank, beside each other. Let them see, but not touch, if that makes sense. Acclimatize them, then add them to the tank. Lost fins are very common when they begin to choose a new alpha. Because you removed the imposter lol: that lil'male!) you've set it so everyone had to remake a group. So it would've been normal to see that aggression! If no one is infected with rot, fungus, and their bodies themselves are okay (no wounds) you can re-add them all. 

I found when the large gal I got attacked Marge (Marge is no longer alpha....) I fed them all. They stopped to eat, and with the food spread out they didn't fight for food. After, they've gotten along.


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## brettwashere

, I'm down to three girls in the tanks now. There is some chasing and nipping but nothing alarming. The big red (donna) seems to be the alpha. Looks like I may have to set up yet another tank for the smallest females as they just won't get along. Must be the chihuahua complex.


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## Sena Hansler

:lol: chihuahua complex haha nice... I've had my smallest gal not be a bully...but be like a "little sister" and pester her sisters :lol: The biggest gal uses her size to her advantage.


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## brettwashere

How much fin loss can occur before the fin will not grow back? three of the girls bottom fins look like someone took some scissors to them and frayed them almost to the body.


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## Sena Hansler

I've gotten gals who had their fins burned/rotted off, and they grew back no problem. It depends on the care, the fish itself, and how many times the fins have been damaged. I've got a male who has half his fin's length, however Marge grew back all her fins, without you being able to notice they were shortened before  it's easier for gals to grow them back. Some, may grow back uneven, or shorter, but I do not have experience with any that have never grown their fins back.


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## makoisland

I'm trying to decide where I should get my girls when I'm ready. 

Should I order them from the pet store (they don't have bettas in the store-- we also don't have a Petsmart), or from Foster & Smith? On one hand I would say Foster & Smith because they would appear more trustworthy than a pet store, but on the other hand the fish would have farther to travel.

Opinions? :lol:


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## brettwashere

Started my sorority with 5 girls from a breeder on aquabid. Fish came promptly, properly packed, and are now living happily in a 10 gal tank. I only buy from breeders in the US, to avoid the trans shipper fees. Only paid $16 shipping for 5 fish! 3 day delivery. PM me if you need some more info. I did have an issue when I first introduced them to the tank. Had a couple of fighters I had to put on time out and re introduce later. Also give them LOTS of places to hide. I feel like my tank is too cluttered, but they seem to be less aggressive. Good luck!


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## jeffegg2

I would think that each time you added a new female, a new "pecking order" would surface... The leader is not always the biggest!

Jeff.


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## mjoy79

My first sorority experience sure has been a good one. Well I guess I'm technically on my 2nd.
I started with 5 in a 10 gallon for about 6 months and now I have 10 girls in a 20 gallon which is in its 3rd month. Of course the original 5 girls are there along with some "newbies" which now are looking more and more like their predecesors (in terms of size).
I know eventually (hopefully years down the road) this sorority will dissolve.
So my though for my next sorority is to order a bunch of sisters from a breeder - most likely on aquabid. I think it would be awesome to have all sibling girls who are already used to each other and will most likely have similar color patterns.
Don't get me wrong - I love my 10 girls that I have now- I purchased them all from Petco. They're all gorgeous and feisty little girls who are such a joy!


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## Gracie8890

Hi! I just got a betta sorority! I had 2 females at first and they were great! They would swim with each other like bffs! But i read online it wasnt good to only add 2! so i went and bought 2 more(a little smaller in size). I took them all out and rearranged the tank. I then added the two newcomers. About 30 minutes later i added my old 2. There was a little bit of fighting at first between three of them, but it ceceded after a while. But the other female i introduced they all hated! They would seek her out just to attack her! Shes ok now cuzshe hides in the plants ( she also blends in well with my gravel.) but after three days i woke up and found one of my females( the new one that was accepted) torn to shreds! Her fins were gone and a chunk was out of her stomach! Why did they do this if they already accepted her?


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## brettwashere

You could try taking all of them out, float them all and re introduce at the same time. Worked for me. Or just time out the trouble makers


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## jeffegg2

Chances are she was sick and you just did not know it yet. A healthy fish would be able to run and hide. Unless you have the tank over crowded?

Jeff. 




Gracie8890 said:


> Hi! I just got a betta sorority! I had 2 females at first and they were great! They would swim with each other like bffs! But i read online it wasnt good to only add 2! so i went and bought 2 more(a little smaller in size). I took them all out and rearranged the tank. I then added the two newcomers. About 30 minutes later i added my old 2. There was a little bit of fighting at first between three of them, but it ceceded after a while. But the other female i introduced they all hated! They would seek her out just to attack her! Shes ok now cuzshe hides in the plants ( she also blends in well with my gravel.) but after three days i woke up and found one of my females( the new one that was accepted) torn to shreds! Her fins were gone and a chunk was out of her stomach! Why did they do this if they already accepted her?


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## Yaoilover12397

I'm unsure if this was answered before but I'm having a little issue with one of my girls who is going to be shipped at a later date than the other girls. Due to some kind of Thai holiday, my question is how should this effect my settling the girls in?

How do I settle this girl in with the others?


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## LittleBeta

I have one female that keeps attacking one of my others (the one I've had longer). The one that's being attacked hasn't done anything to the one attacking her. I took the one that was attacking out for the night but when I put her back in today she started attacking the other one again  there completely ignoring the third female I have in there to.

What should I do?


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## ZergyMonster

LittleBeta said:


> I have one female that keeps attacking one of my others (the one I've had longer). The one that's being attacked hasn't done anything to the one attacking her. I took the one that was attacking out for the night but when I put her back in today she started attacking the other one again  there completely ignoring the third female I have in there to.
> 
> What should I do?


I ended up having to put my newest girl into her own tank because she was not going to work in a sorority setting. That is probably what you're going to have to do yourself.


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## LittleBeta

All right... But I've all so herd that having more would reduce the nipping. Would that help any in this situation?


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## ZergyMonster

Having more only spreads out the aggression but it doesn't stop it. I have had over 9 girls and I have had trouble with 3 of them. Some girls are just not going to work. If you can have at least 4 girls acting peacefully then you should keep them together and either return the others or give them their own tank.


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## LittleBeta

I only have three at the moment sadly :/
If I get another one soon and that still doesn't work I'll give the aggressive one her own tank or put her in with 'the family fish' (none of the Bettas- 55 gallon)


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## ZergyMonster

I've had points where I only had 3 bettas but I added more when I had the chance. I'm not saying 3 won't work but it is definitely recommended.


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## Yaoilover12397

I'm unsure if this was answered before but I'm having a little issue with one of my girls who is going to be shipped at a later date than the other girls. Due to some kind of Thai holiday, my question is how should this effect my settling the girls in?

How do I settle this girl in with the others? 
__________________


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## Bombalurina

How long after the others will she be shipped? Can you keep them in temporary seperate tanks until you have all of them?

If not, when the new girl arrives, take everything out and re-arrange the tank, float them all where they can see each other, then add them all back in.


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## Yaoilover12397

Actually, luck may be on my side, the transhippers date got changed so I should be getting them all at the same time. Thank you though Bom.


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## jaela

Just wanted to cosy up in here because the girls for my first sorority are shipping tomorrow! I'm really excited -- I keep making last-minute adjustments to the tank and fussing about, trying to make sure everything will be perfect for them.

Quick question, where do your girls hang out when they're resting? Do they all seem to find separate spots and stick to them, and what kinds of places seem to be their favourites in tanks with multiple girls?


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## EmilyN

jaela said:


> Quick question, where do your girls hang out when they're resting? Do they all seem to find separate spots and stick to them, and what kinds of places seem to be their favourites in tanks with multiple girls?


My girls like the pennywort plant the best. they also like the big fake reef because its the only really dark place to hide. They stick to the same spot for a few days max then go rest someplace else.


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## jaela

Introduced my girls today! There's been some flaring and chasing, one episode where a fin got nipped a bit, but all in all seems to be going well!








(sorry about the water spots! it's been a busy day of introductions so I haven't cleaned the glass yet!)
There are six girls in here, one is hiding behind a plant in this picture. I've got a couple more ornaments and several more plants coming soon so they can have even more hiding spaces and such.


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## GienahClarette

Hey guys, my sorority recently collapsed, so I thought I'd put up what happened so you can learn from my mistakes. 

The girls all did pretty well until I had to leave town and hire a fish sitter. When I came back, there was a columnaris infection going around and several of the girls were infected. After the first girl died, I couldn't find her body for a day since she went and hid so the others wouldn't bother her. Warning, GIRLS WILL EAT THEIR DEAD. That infected the rest of the girls, giving them columnaris and dropsy from the infection before I could even locate the body. I took out all of the decorations and disinfected them, and the body turned up a day later. 

They all died one by one, until the last girl. She's doing alright right now. But, I cannot express how sad the entire experience made me. They can look fantastic, then drop dead the next day as the others sense her weakness and go in for a kill. Please consider my experience before getting a sorority. I'm not trying to say anyone is a bad fish keeper. But, I'm starting to think sororities aren't such a great idea. 

It was lovely seeing the girls hang out together and they did so well until I had to leave for a few days. I miss them all.


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## ootfifawithbubba

im going to make a sorority place when i have my own house and money XD


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## ootfifawithbubba

HEY DIDNT I PUT MY PROFILE PIC UP , grr brb ppl


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## ootfifawithbubba

it is up but its not showing on my comuter? thats weird


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## ZergyMonster

Make sure that you have it as your 'Avatar' picture and not your profile picture.


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## Enkil

Just wanted to give news on my sorority. ^_^

It has 3 girls right now. Not the ideal situation, but everything has been going just fine. It's a heated and filtered 10 gal. Has decorations that are hiding places along with some silk plants (soon to be replaced with all live) and a floating anubias.

My 3 girls are all HM dragons from DrakMoon. Siblings from the same spawn. I have a black dragon (Freydis), copper marble dragon (Lolth), and a black dragon that is marbling (Eva). When I got them, Lolth was the biggest and ruled the tank. Freydis has caught up with her in size and has now established herself as queen of the tank. Eva is noticeably smaller than the other two. Lately, she's been standing her ground a little bit more when they try to bully her out of a resting place. She'll give a little flare and they leave her be.

My girls like to switch it up between resting together and separately. Eva favors being out in the open for some reason. She also favors resting on the bottom. Lolth likes the barrel decoration and floating anubias plant. Freydis doesn't really have a favorite spot.


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## Myates

I am glad you are aware that this is not the ideal situation, but will strongly urge to get at least one or two more asap.. things may be going fine for now, but once they get more established they will start killing each other- normally when there are 3, 2 will pick on one until she is dead, then the remaining 2 will go after one another.

Make sure the tank is very densely planted, not half planted, but planted to the point where you have to look hard and search for them.. as well as plants reaching to the surface is a must. Most sororities end up failing at some point, but the better you get the environment (more females, dense plantings) the less chance it will. 

So definitely get some more females in asap and make sure to rearrange all decorations when you add them in, otherwise the 3 girls you have now will go after any newcomers.


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## Enkil

They've been in the tank like this for months now. I keep adding plants and decorations along with rearranging the setup frequently. The only problem I've had thus far is that for about a week, Freydis was bullying the other two. It got pretty bad at one point, she wouldn't leave them alone. So I removed all three, rearranged the entire tank, and added in a few things from a new tank I had cycling. She has calmed down since doing that.

I do have plans to get another 2 females (at least) along with an upgrade of the sorority tank. It's just a matter of finding the right females at this point. I have set aside money for them and have been keeping my eye out. I had picked out one girl and was going to get a pair as well. An accident happened and so I am not getting them. Working with the breeder to perhaps still get fish from them.
So right now it's a matter of finding a breeder who has stock available. I've found some I like on AB, but they've all been overseas or in Canada. With my social anxieties and such, working with a transshipper is really unappealing.


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## Tikibirds

I set one up in a 10 gallon - currently there are 4 females and 3 huge wild caught snails. I'm not sure if I should get another female or not - I know snails are poop machines and there are about a dozen babies in the tank now too- they are live bearing snails and the adults are the size of moss balls (they are also covered in moss). It's filtered with an Aquenon quietflow for 10-20 gallon tanks and is cycled - would another female be too much? its mostly fake plants but there are like 12 things of anacharis in it

I also have a 20G long that is empty till I am able to find (and by find I mean afford) a stand/shelf for it.

Ohh and the females are all young - not sure how old they are but they are not adults yet. There was some nipping at first but they seem to have settled in fine.

I miss my old soerity - those girls were awsome


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## jaela

Am unfortunately going to have to rehome one of my girls, bringing my sorority down to 5 girls (plus my habrosus cories). This one girl is just too, too aggressive and I cannot seem to keep her from picking on the other girls for more than a couple of days, no matter how dense of cover I provide or how much I change up the tank layout. She's currently in the tank in a breeding basket, still sometimes flaring at other girls if they swim by her, though she can't get to them now of course.

She's such a beautiful girl but I don't think I have the time to keep up with multiple tanks right now, so we're going to have to part ways. Still trying to decide between trying to keep the five remaining girls as they are, or buying another girl and risk ending up with an overly aggressive one who will have to be rehomed again. =\


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## Tikibirds

I had one girl that was like that. I ended up taking her out and giving her her own tank.


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## Lenimph

I have a female betta in 10 gal as of now with just 2 corys and I was considering starting a sorority. Problem is ... Isabetta was really aggressive to all the males I've introduced to her for breeding so I'm worried about how she'll get along with girls and if I even should even add other girls since she seems to pretty assertive that the whole tank is her territory.


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## Bombalurina

Rather than start a sorority, I would get more cories. They like to be in at least groups of 4, 6 being better. Make sure they are all the same species!  Having extra females in with the cories would overstock you.

Bought three new girls for my sorority and was very excited about my very pretty, well-finned female...who has a massive beard and like to try and make babies with all the girls. Sigh. I wish it wasn't so hard to sex fish in-shop!


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## Yaoilover12397

For adding more females to a sorority, how does one go about this?


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## Bombalurina

Cup or bag all of the girls, re-arrange the tank completely, making sure that there is lots of cover, then release all the girls. Some recommend doing this from least aggressive to most aggressive, but since I find it difficult to tell, I just let them all go at once.


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## Timberland

great post! I have several planted sorority tanks and love them.


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## Liquid

I may set up a set up a sorority of 6 bettas in my 30 gallon.


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## Micho

If it's 30 gallons I would up the numbers, simply because that would spread out the aggression more. If you have room it's always a good idea to up the numbers of girls in the tank.


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## Cattitude

Micho said:


> If it's 30 gallons I would up the numbers, simply because that would spread out the aggression more. If you have room it's always a good idea to up the numbers of girls in the tank.


I'm about to start a new 26 gal sorority tank. I haven't put the fish in yet. A couple of questions:

1. I'm planning to have 5 or 6 cories. When stocking the tank should I add them before or after the girls? Or does it matter? I want to try to avoid them being picked on by the bettas. 

2. I have 5 females so far, waiting in betta bowls for the tank to cycle (the sixth grew a beard and started making bubble nests when he was placed next to one of his "sisters"). :roll: Should I get more? What's the maximum for a tank of this size along with the cories?


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## Micho

1) I'd add them first, 6 is the minimum for a shoal for most species of Cories. If you add them later, they might get picked on simply because the girls would have established their own individual territory. 

2) Yeah I would add more girls, for sure. 5 is really not enough for a 26 gallon, try to find five more other girls you can increase the number too if you like. Be prepared to re-home some of the girls because they might be too aggressive or that they're too weak and get picked on. 

I've seen your tank and it's a NPT, the only problem I have with it is that it doesn't have the cover for a sorority, you have plants, but you don't have plants that are tall and big that break the line of sight. I suggest covering your tank with more tall plants, live or fake, doesn't really matter. 

Something like this (taken from the first page of this thread):


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## Cattitude

Thanks for the advice! Looks like I'm off to the pet store tomorrow... ;-)


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## Tikibirds

> Some recommend doing this from least aggressive to most aggressive, but since I find it difficult to tell, I just let them all go at once.


yeah, i try to release who I think is the lowest ranking one to the most agressive but in all honest, I can't tell. I have no idea who the Alpha is. Even when I had 11 girls, i had no idea who it was - they all seemed fairly mellow


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## bettafishlover5346

*My 10 gallon betta sorority tank idea*

Hey guys, I was wondering if it would be alright to put somewhere between 17-30 female betta's in a 10 gallon aquarium. The tank is cycled, because I added some ammonia yesterday to do a fishless cycle. (I think I added about 2 gallons of ammonia.) I will provide lots of decorations to make my fishies happy, and make sure to feed every day. I am even going to add a bubbler!


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## Micho

Uh, 17 ~ 30 female girls in a 10g? No. 10g can only house roughly around 4 ~ 7 girls at most. 

2 gallons of ammonia is a lot. . . I'm pretty sure you got the calculation wrong, if you're doing a fishless cycle with pure ammonia you need to calculate how much ammonia is needed to dose the tank with 4ppm of ammonia. . . Also just because you added ammonia doesn't mean it's "cycled", the bacteria needs to turn ammonia into nitrItes, then into nitrAtes, once you get a reading in nitrAtes around 10 ~ 20ppm or so, then you'll know it's cycled. 

I suggest you do more research first before diving into this head on.


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## MollyJean

For 10 gallons I wouldn't put more then 5 girls. 17 of any fish is really overstocking a 10 gallon tank!

A fishless cycle can take a month in a 10 gallon tank. You should be doing water tests every day. If you need help cycling, check here

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838

Read the first post over again and make sure you understand everything. Lots of plants and hiding places are a must


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## Bombalurina

*Please tell me you are trolling...*



bettafishlover5346 said:


> Hey guys, I was wondering if it would be alright to put somewhere between 17-30 female betta's in a 10 gallon aquarium. The tank is cycled, because I added some ammonia yesterday to do a fishless cycle. (I think I added about 2 gallons of ammonia.) I will provide lots of decorations to make my fishies happy, and make sure to feed every day. I am even going to add a bubbler!


If you've added two gallons of ammonia, I suspect that your cycle simply won't happen. You need to have about 4-5ppm of ammonia - I'm willing to bet your ammonia levels will read of the chart. Also, the fact that you added ammonia yesterday doesn't mean your tank is cycled. It means your tank is full of ammonia. The cycle isn't instant. 

And I agree, 17 females would be ridiculously overstocked. Also, bettas don't need a bubbler. Heaters and filters are what you need. 

You need to do a lot more research - I suggest reading all the stickies.


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## Yaoilover12397

How many females would be okay in a 40 gallon?


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## Bombalurina

Aim for around 20.


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## bettafishlover5346

Wow. I was obviously very wrong about my tank! I guess I will do just 1 male, because I don't like the way that a divider looks in the middle of the tank. (I looked at youtube). Thanks everyone, I was expecting positive responses about my tank, but I have now done some research and I just need to do a cycle. I guess I will dump all of the water out, because 2 gallons of ammonia is WAY too much! The problem is, I don't have a test kit for the ammonia and the nitrate and the other thing. I also don't know which cycle I should do! I could get some zebra danios and change the water every day or I could feed the tank,( I read that feeding a tank does not work very well).
So, my question are:
1. What method should I use to cycle my tank? feed the tank? live fish method? pure ammonia method? (where can I get pure ammonia)
2. What kind/brand of test kit/strips should I use to help cycle my tank? Please do not say the most expensive type/brand, but maybe a cheaper, but still reliable brand.


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## bettafishlover5346

I know that this is a little off topic for the 'Female Betta Sororities', but I also am curious about what fish would be compatible with a male (or i could get one female) betta in a 10 gallon tank. Could I get kuhli loaches? what else could I get to coexist with a betta in a 10 gallon tank???????


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## Bombalurina

Hi Bettafishlover

I'd suggest starting your own thread in either Betta Fish Housing or compatibility so all of your questions can be answered and you can get continuing advice and lots of opinions.


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## djembekah

I started my sorority today! the littlest girls hide quite a bit, and Effie is pronouncing herself queen. I haven't seen anyone actually hurt anyone else though. It's going pretty okay!


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## Wolfie305

I have a friend who had a female betta in a 20 gallon tank of guppies for a day or two. She just added two more females today. 

Are you supposed to add the females at the same time? What should she be looking out for now that they're added?


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## ZergyMonster

It's more a rule of thumb for it to be a minimum of 4 girls for a sorority, that way if one gets hurt it can get away and the rest can get picked on. You will need lots of hiding places and they can be put in at random intervals just be sure you rearrange the place if you're adding a few when there are a lot to begin with, that way they have to set up their territories all over again and it will be a level playing field. 

Also not all female bettas will get along so you should always have a back up plan for when and if your sorority fails.


----------



## Wolfie305

Thank you!

She just told me that her females are in separate tanks now and are slowly dying DD: Asked her what the heck happened damage wise.


----------



## Cattitude

Wolfie305 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> She just told me that her females are in separate tanks now and are slowly dying DD: Asked her what the heck happened damage wise.


I'm sorry to hear! It seems they may have been fighting and injured each other internally. They do take bites at the body of their opponent when fighting. I have one female right now who's missing a few scales on her side. 

I had one die recently who only seemed to be missing a bit of her fins, but she was bitten on the abdomen.


----------



## Wolfie305

Poor baby  

She told me it was mostly their fins. Told her to get some Epsom salt for them if she could.


----------



## headerthebettalover

This helped so much thanks for the info


----------



## mjoy79

Hey everyone. Hope everyone's sororities are going great!
I recently moved so I'm slowly getting back into the swing of things. I am working from home in my new place. I have my office set up in a 2nd bedroom. I've set up my 9-girl sorority in here too. Thought I would post a pic I took from my desk


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## djembekah

oh wow that's a gorgeous tank!


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## Enkil

I have added more girls to my sorority. Along with decorations (hiding places along with fake plants they hide in) and live java moss. A bunch of live java moss. This is where I can usually find the shiest one of them all. She's a little cutie. My sorority is much more colorful now. Now instead of streaks of just silver, I have a big orange, blues, an orange dragon, blacks, and yellows!


----------



## MrsFeatherbottom

I want to add some more fish to mine.

Tank specs:
20g high
Filters: Top Fin 20 & Aqueon QuietFlow 10
Fish:
5 female bettas
6 Albino corydoras

Am I stocked? If I add neon tetras, 5 would probably be my limit. Is 5 too small a school? I was also considering a snail or 2.

Any other fish suggestions?


----------



## Catfish Billy

It's a great post but I'm just wandering, how would you know which betta to put in first because you don't know which betta is the least/most agressive?


----------



## LebronTheBetta

The thing is, you put the Bettas last since they think that they're invading territory.
EDIT: Whoops wrong thread.


----------



## Cattitude

Catfish Billy said:


> It's a great post but I'm just wandering, how would you know which betta to put in first because you don't know which betta is the least/most agressive?


I recently added to my sorority. I could tell who's most aggressive from the ones I added, because she was the one doing the most flaring at the other "sisters" who were already in the tank. I released her last. Once I released all of the new females, there was a big flare showdown going on between her and the alpha of the existing females.


----------



## tanseattle

I will do what you say. I have 8 four-month old females.


----------



## CreativePotato

I've heard some people (not necessarily on here) say that an odd number of females do better than an even number. Is this true? I can't choose between these two females I saw at my LPS; I would just buy both but I already have four females in quarantine and I want to make sure I don't end up overstocking my tank and stressing out my fish.
Also, I'm starting the cycle of the 10 gallon they'll eventually go in. I have an anubias, an amazon sword, and plan to put some ludwigia and another plant in there. There are old mugs and floating logs for each fish to hide in. As I said before, either five or six females will occupy it once the cycle is done. How does it sound?


----------



## tanseattle

I now have 7 female in my 10 gal tank. They now get alone together. It looks good to see they all get alone and swim around the tank. Feeding time is fun to look at them. Some of my female fly up and try to bite the feeding spoon.


----------



## djembekah

feeding the sorority is a lot of fun, i agree


----------



## Ircsi

i had 6 2 months old females in a 5 gallon tank. 2 of them died and i don't know what happened i have a piece of drift wood in the tank, could that cause them illness? they had some weird stuff on their fins. it looked like something was eating away the fin. i changed water and added salt and melafix. hope the other 4 will survive, for now they look fine. any suggestions?


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## Freyja

How many females can you put in a 5.5 g tank? Or a 6.6?


----------



## registereduser

dramaqueen said:


> *Tank size- *The tank you house your females in shouldn’t be any smaller than 10 gallons. 20 gallon long tanks work very well. A larger tank gives the girls more room to move around and also gives you room for plenty of plants, hiding/getaway places and decorations such as small terra cotta pots, bridges and castles. You can use either real or fake plants. The tank should be cycled, filtered and heated.


that is from the original post, read the first page of this thread again.


----------



## Freyja

I know, I read it. So then I'm guessing the answer is one since I didn't really get a straight answer :-(


----------



## registereduser

Freyja said:


> I know, I read it. So then I'm guessing the answer is one since I didn't really get a straight answer :-(


That's what I would go with since it is not recommended to have a sorority in a tank under 10 gallons.:thumbsup:


----------



## Cattitude

With a 5.5-6 gal I wouldn't put any more than one inch of fish per gallon. Since a regular female betta is a bit more than an inch, I'd say you could put three or 4 in your 5.5 gal tank. 

Remember also that sorority tanks need to be heavily planted, so that takes up tank space.


----------



## registereduser

Cattitude said:


> With a 5.5-6 gal I wouldn't put any more than one inch of fish per gallon. Since a regular female betta is a bit more than an inch, I'd say you could put three or 4 in your 5.5 gal tank.


srsly? I'd like to hear about/see pics of a 5/6 gallon with 3-4 females in it!


----------



## Cattitude

registereduser said:


> srsly? I'd like to hear about/see pics of a 5/6 gallon with 3-4 females in it!


Yes you're right, my bad. In fact, a sorority needs both more fish and more space. I was thinking theoretically and just based on fish size vs. tank size.


----------



## Silverfang

Freyja said:


> How many females can you put in a 5.5 g tank? Or a 6.6?


A single fish, or divide it for two. Not suitable for a sorority. They need the space for the lower ranking girls to escape.


----------



## Freyja

:-( I think all I can convince my hubby to go for is a 5.5 g. I was really looking forward to a sorority. *sighs* Thanks for the replies Silverfang and Cattitude.


----------



## registereduser

Freyja said:


> :-( I think all I can convince my hubby to go for is a 5.5 g.


soooo happy I don't have one of those!


----------



## Freyja

Yes well we can't all be that fortunate. He is my husband, a lovely man, and I have to take him into consideration as its his house as well. Better a 5.5 g and a happy girl or boy than none at all.


----------



## ZergyMonster

You can always divide it and have 2 bettas female or not. Some prefer to have as many fish as a tank can handle because lets face it more fish=more fun.


----------



## Silverfang

Just thought I'd share my current set up. I STILL have to prepare my driftwood and alter the tank a bit... but here she is. 29 gal, npt. Currently housing 5 girls, with one taken out for a week to let her nipped fins grow back. Poor dear has stubs for ventrals and one pec chewed down. My girls are quite vicious. She is also a tiny thing.


----------



## Freyja

@Zergy...that's what Silverfang also suggested. I'm thinking dividing is the way to go once the tank is cycled.


----------



## MSG

SFang, 

Even in your 29 gallon with all those plants, it wasn't enough cover to keep the girls from fighting?

How come you didn't put any decorations/furniture in there other than the plants?


----------



## Silverfang

There is going to be nipping, it's just that my girls nip vital fins >.>

As for the decor, I had driftwood, but it turned out to be "bad". I'm in the process of preparing new driftwood that shouldn't grow mold.

As for other decor, I simply didn't want anything fake in there.


----------



## betta526

Wasn't sure if I can post here or start a new thread. So I'll just try. 

I have a 30 gallon tank with 11 Betta sororities. I have had these girls together in the same tank since March 2012. Two days ago, I inherited 2 gold barbs and 6 neon tetras. My question is, can I add the newly inherited fishes to my 30 gallon sorority tank?

Thanks.


----------



## MSG

What size are the barbs? 

Do you have any pictures of your tank? 

I was thinking of introducing a rosy barb once a week for cleaning duty when I try to feed the girls flakes instead of pellets.


----------



## Cattitude

MSG said:


> What size are the barbs?
> 
> Do you have any pictures of your tank?
> 
> I was thinking of introducing a rosy barb once a week for cleaning duty when I try to feed the girls flakes instead of pellets.


I've always been under the impression that barbs are fin-nippers - but maybe that's just tiger barbs.


----------



## betta526

It looks like the barbs are about 1.25" now.

Here are some photos:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v176/tinafooster/?action=view¤t=5d1c1e99.jpg&evt=user_media_share

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v176/tinafooster/?action=view¤t=f6caa98d.jpg&evt=user_media_share

I googled gold barbs and found that they are supposed to be most peaceful of all barbs.


----------



## teeneythebetta

Freyja said:


> :-( I think all I can convince my hubby to go for is a 5.5 g. I was really looking forward to a sorority. *sighs* Thanks for the replies Silverfang and Cattitude.


Thank you for taking the great advise they gave you! I know it sucks, but it is only for the safety of the girls. Some people are even iffy about a 10 gallon being too small! It truly depends on the girls you get though.

I'm sure the one/two bettas you get will be more than content.


----------



## Freyja

Thanks for replying Teeney. Its true; better to have one content fish than many stressed out just for the sake of having them. Freyja is quite content to have all 2.5 g of "our" work tank ;-) to herself, although she has become interested in her only other tankmate, JJ Puff the mossball. Once upon a time she had ghost shrimp; they were there on Friday afternoon and gone by Monday morning. :shock: She needs more plants though, anubias and java moss are the ones I'm looking at right now.


----------



## betta526

Here are more photos:






































Here are the gold barbs in quarantine:


----------



## Olympia

I'd get at least 4 more barbs to stop any aggression.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## betta526

Getting a few more barbs was what most websites are suggesting also. So I'll probably do it. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Olympia

Yea, they'll get along fine.
Barbs have a really bad reputation, almost all species are sweeties. Tiger barbs are the most common though, but even they calm down if you have around 10 of them. Most people don't get enough barbs for a school and that's why they see problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSG

*A few quick questions......*


Quick question, keep blue betta... Delfine in the tank or remove her for fin treatment?


Note: First 3 photos & last 3 photos are the same fish.
Delfine/Delfino - 1.75" (Royal Blue/Short Red Ventral).



Also the fish below the Hikari Marine S.....
Senetti - 1.75" (Blue/Purple/Long Red Ventral)


Keep Senetti in tank or remove? She's lost the most amount of scales due to fighting since the initial introduction. Definitely #2 behind Diavolo (Big Red Veiltail/Red Eyes).
Sorbet/Sorbeto - 1.5" (Orange/Red Sorbet Colored fins, Red/Orange Operculum) = She's back in time out after escaping last night.


----------



## registereduser

huge photo :shock:

They say removing a female 
and then adding her back in can 
confuse the girls and make them behave 
especially if you re-arrange their deco.
So I would "hospitalize" her for awhile 
and then re introduce her and hope
for the best!


----------



## Silverfang

I'd quite likely remove the girl who's on the same line of photos as the liquid test results. Are any of the other girls hiding or staying solely on the bottom?

For the most part I wouldn't remove unless they are being severely picked on or are having trouble swimming. But I may not be the best judge.


----------



## MSG

SF, already transfered Delfine when the picture was originally taken. Didn't you notice the horrible turd looking plastic log behind her. Just wanted confirmation that it was the right thing to do. 

RU, how long would you hospitalize her? Her fins were pretty bad, still only maybe 1/3 healed now. 

Senetti - large purple/blue one, may have to be transferred to intensive care as well. 



 I removed the caves, did a 50% change & gravel cleaning just now.
 
Left the girls in there while doing the cleaning & added Little Lava Red & reintroduced Little Blue Munchkin into the group after I was finished.



Another note.... it's been such a long time since I've had GRAVEL. So easy to clean versus the eco-complete substrate.


----------



## registereduser

MSG said:


> RU, how long would you hospitalize her?
> Her fins were pretty bad, still only maybe 1/3 healed now.


I have no idea, I've never had to do it myself. 
I'm glad her fins are growing back!


----------



## choob99

Love my sorority, I add new females all the time and really don't have many problems, mine is a 40 gallon breeder tank with plenty of plants and decorations in it, the girls love it in there


----------



## MSG

RU.... I'm glad none of them sustained any major damage. Once they saw the nets, most of the fish swam inside immediately. No running away at all. 

Choob.... I was going to go with the 55 gallon, but PTC made some excuse why it wasn't included in their little annual sale.

40G was way too deep. I like HOB filters, and the 40G Breeder would be stick out from the wall too much.

If the tank was 14"-16" deep instead of 18", I would have grabbed it.

Post a photo of your tank. I'm curious to see what a fully planted 40G looks like.


----------



## choob99

Its my profile pic


----------



## MSG

A full sized photo. You can't see anything with a thumbnail picture


----------



## choob99

how do you post pics here? do i need to use photobucket or something? or can you post right to the forums somehow?


----------



## ZergyMonster

You can add photos via the "attach image" button in the post reply window. You will have to go advanced and not a quick reply. Though Photobucket is easier in the long run if you want to add a lot of photos.


----------



## choob99

Ok here is the pic of my sorority, its a bit older some plants have been changed around and added but you get the general idea of it


----------



## teeneythebetta

Very pretty tank, Choob.


----------



## choob99

thank you very much, looking at it i really do need to get some new pics coz the plants have been moved around so much since then! lol


----------



## MSG

Now I can see your tank. It's a 40 gallon? I thought only 50's & 55gallons had the center support bracket?

Those are interesting tank decorations. So many stadiums with dolphin statues. Pretty cool.

I like it.

Also what plant is that left of the bottle of blue dial soap?

So you feed the bettas the Wardleys color enchancing pellets, the HBH pellets, & Tetra Betta Flakes?


----------



## choob99

No this one is a 40 breeder tank, it doesn't have the center support, that is the handle to the glass lid. And actually I don't feed any of those at all lol, I bought those years ago when I first started keeping bettas and then learned the error of my ways lol I was feeding Hikari for several years but have now switched to NLS. Also feed frozen bloodworms, and freeze dried tubifex worms.


----------



## choob99

And I believe that plant is a fake silk one! lol I don't have it in that tank anymore as I now have a large piece of driftwood in the back with tons of java fern tied to it


----------



## babystarz

I've consulted with my roommates and they have given me the go ahead to create a sorority tank  It's an Aqueon 14 (and for the life of me I can't figure out if it's actually 14 gallons or 10 - it says nowhere on the packaging!) and I am planning to fill it with substrate and plant it. I'm kind of a rambler so I'm bolding my important questions 

I have some questions about how long the sorority members will need to be quarantined from each other. Here are the upcoming members:

Persephone - pet store crowntail I bought 3 days ago. She seems very healthy but I am the most worried about her spreading something, since she came from the pet store environment and I'll be honest - some of the bettas there looked like they were on death's doorstep.

2 mustard gas halfmoon females - coming from a breeder in Boston. They are siblings.

3 crowntail females - coming from a breeder in Georgia. Not siblings, but used to living with other females. They will be arriving quite a bit later than the other 2.

Now, for my questions. *How long do they need to be quarantined from each other before I add them all to the sorority tank? And do you think I can get away with housing the siblings/former tank mates from the same breeder together (one group of 2, one group of 3) until that point, or am I asking for trouble? * I do have 3 floating sick fish isolation chambers I could put in a big tank if there is fighting but I doubt the girls would enjoy being stuck in them.

I'm spending quite a bit of $ on these babies and they're all show quality females aside from Persephone so I would prefer to err on the side of extreme caution over losing a single fish here.

*All of the incoming females will be treated with aquarium salt and Bettafix upon arrival. Should I add anything else? *

*Also, when I plant the tank, should I add Seachem Flourish or would that be overkill with the substrate? *

I'm also curious to know what the general odds are that I will end up with a fish that is too aggressive to remain in the sorority. *Should I consider getting an extra girl just in case this happens to keep my number at 6? * I also worry that they will be very different sizes - Persephone is ginormous and I think the crowntail girls are pretty petite. I will be festooning the tank with plenty of decorations that have plenty of little hiding spots and caves and such. Plus the plants


----------



## teeneythebetta

babystarz said:


> I've consulted with my roommates and they have given me the go ahead to create a sorority tank  It's an Aqueon 14 (and for the life of me I can't figure out if it's actually 14 gallons or 10 - it says nowhere on the packaging!) and I am planning to fill it with substrate and plant it. I'm kind of a rambler so I'm bolding my important questions
> 
> I have some questions about how long the sorority members will need to be quarantined from each other. Here are the upcoming members:
> 
> Persephone - pet store crowntail I bought 3 days ago. She seems very healthy but I am the most worried about her spreading something, since she came from the pet store environment and I'll be honest - some of the bettas there looked like they were on death's doorstep.
> 
> 2 mustard gas halfmoon females - coming from a breeder in Boston. They are siblings.
> 
> 3 crowntail females - coming from a breeder in Georgia. Not siblings, but used to living with other females. They will be arriving quite a bit later than the other 2.
> 
> Now, for my questions. *How long do they need to be quarantined from each other before I add them all to the sorority tank? And do you think I can get away with housing the siblings/former tank mates from the same breeder together (one group of 2, one group of 3) until that point, or am I asking for trouble? * I do have 3 floating sick fish isolation chambers I could put in a big tank if there is fighting but I doubt the girls would enjoy being stuck in them.
> 
> I'm spending quite a bit of $ on these babies and they're all show quality females aside from Persephone so I would prefer to err on the side of extreme caution over losing a single fish here.
> 
> *All of the incoming females will be treated with aquarium salt and Bettafix upon arrival. Should I add anything else? *
> 
> *Also, when I plant the tank, should I add Seachem Flourish or would that be overkill with the substrate? *
> 
> I'm also curious to know what the general odds are that I will end up with a fish that is too aggressive to remain in the sorority. *Should I consider getting an extra girl just in case this happens to keep my number at 6? * I also worry that they will be very different sizes - Persephone is ginormous and I think the crowntail girls are pretty petite. I will be festooning the tank with plenty of decorations that have plenty of little hiding spots and caves and such. Plus the plants


Your girls should be quarantined for at least 2 weeks- Or 3 weeks if possible (trust me an outbreak of illness is not fun.)

Defenitely do not house the siblings together, keep them separated.

Do not use aquarium salt for more than 10 days or it will hurt them. DO NOT use bettafix- ever! It contains some sort of tree oil that will damage their labyrinth organ and most of the time kills them. (don't use bettafix or melafix) if you want, use stress coat)

Flourish is a good fertilizer.

I wouldn't put more than 6 in a 10 gal. If you have a 14 gal, then I'd put max of 8. So your choice. You need a minimum of 4 girls for a sorority to work.*


----------



## babystarz

teeneythebetta said:


> Your girls should be quarantined for at least 2 weeks- Or 3 weeks if possible (trust me an outbreak of illness is not fun.)
> 
> Defenitely do not house the siblings together, keep them separated.
> 
> Do not use aquarium salt for more than 10 days or it will hurt them. DO NOT use bettafix- ever! It contains some sort of tree oil that will damage their labyrinth organ and most of the time kills them. (don't use bettafix or melafix) if you want, use stress coat)
> 
> Flourish is a good fertilizer.
> 
> I wouldn't put more than 6 in a 10 gal. If you have a 14 gal, then I'd put max of 8. So your choice. You need a minimum of 4 girls for a sorority to work.*


Yikes, I had no idea about the Bettafix, thank you for letting me know. This is what I get for trusting Amazon reviews, I will be posting here first from now on to make sure a product is worth buying and won't harm my fishies. Does Stress Coat do anything extra that Prime doesn't do?

I will prepare to quarantine each of the girls for at least 3 weeks. Since they're coming from all over the place I think it's for the best.


----------



## Silverfang

babystarz said:


> I've consulted with my roommates and they have given me the go ahead to create a sorority tank  It's an Aqueon 14 (and for the life of me I can't figure out if it's actually 14 gallons or 10 - it says nowhere on the packaging!) and I am planning to fill it with substrate and plant it. I'm kind of a rambler so I'm bolding my important questions



If you measure it, there are calculators out there that will how much it holds.


----------



## babystarz

Silverfang said:


> If you measure it, there are calculators out there that will how much it holds.


Yep, I will be doing that. The tank is still packed up in my car ATM, I haven't decided if I will put it in my new house or my current apartment. I have some overlap time for the next month and I'm paying the rent for both places. My instincts say to just put it in the new place so I don't have to worry about moving it when it's all heavy and filled with substrate and water. The only issue is I want to be able to keep a close eye on the fish, so splitting them between two homes means I have to be at both places every day.


----------



## teeneythebetta

babystarz said:


> Yep, I will be doing that. The tank is still packed up in my car ATM, I haven't decided if I will put it in my new house or my current apartment. I have some overlap time for the next month and I'm paying the rent for both places. My instincts say to just put it in the new place so I don't have to worry about moving it when it's all heavy and filled with substrate and water. The only issue is I want to be able to keep a close eye on the fish, so splitting them between two homes means I have to be at both places every day.


It defenitely won't hurt to quarantine them until you move. But your tank needs to be cycled before making a sorority. I would set up the tank now in your new place & start cycling... Read about fish less cycling here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838


----------



## Olympia

Kills them most of the time? I think that's an exaggeration. It's already watered down from the original formula.


----------



## teeneythebetta

I say it sometimes kills them because there are cases where people's betta dies and other times people say they have used it and their betta is still alive.

Personally I'm not taking the chance nor will I encourage others to. But to each their own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ClassicCharm

Introduced my six new girls into their tank on saturday! Definitely the most peaceful introduction I've ever had. No chasing or fighting, no missing scales, just LOTS of torn fins. They're a pretty rowdy bunch haha. I've got them in Stress Coat and am doing a 24% water change every two days to keep things clean. Should I bother with AS to help them heal or just let things be?


----------



## Pidgey104

Thanks for this info. First time buying Betta and I bought a pair thinking they could go together. Nope Female wanted to beat up the male. so had to seperate them.


----------



## pyro fiend

iv set up a 20H iv had it filtering for a few days.. now ik this will not cycle the tank.. but i plan on letting it sit at least a week more befor even adding a betta.ts got dirt with sand on top of it for a substrate.. i bought some "Argentine sword" plant from petco. and am planning on planting it.. also got some 'betta bulbs' in jars im watching to see if they grow. and they will be added later. but anywho.. if i say add a thing of java moss, maybe even some driftwood how many small girls can i fit in here? 

i plan on getting them from petco [we dont have anywere elese that sells fem bettas] and puting them in either 1g drums [if there adults] and maybe mason jars if there tiny [usually ur petco sells SUPER tiny girls only] but i wont put adults with juvie fems.. and quarintining them for oh, 2 maybe 3 weeks. leting my tank cycle a little. and give my bulbs a chance to grow some if at all. i wanted to add a few bottom feeders. this depends on the girls size tho.. i was thinking a 1-2in alb- pleco. or maybe a mixture of 4 [total] albino and normal corys? with a few tetras/mollies or something running around?.. would this be over stocked? might this work if i give enough hides? i was thinking 5 maybe 6 girls... 

BTW ik that pleco will need a bigger tank. once its up to size it will go into my 50 or 55 till i set up my 75 if it gets that big..


----------



## pyro fiend

also if this would work out [and i think it will ifi get the right girls] what other plants or anything should i add in to break the line of sight, assuming the bulbs are a bust. ik alot of you are fans of anubia, java moss, moss balls [tho i dont consider it a plant more of a toy/chair] and amazon swords.. not sure what ima use for hides yet, thought of pvc,s pots, and maybe some rock item for a center piece. as i hav one laying around.. just one tho lol XD


----------



## Kittykat7

I have finally decided to start a sorority! This is going to be a long post, sorry just want to explain how I got to where I am with my fishies! lol

I originally had a 5 gallon tank that housed a couple of glofish (I do not recommend them btw, they seem too unhealthy) and a cory dora catfish. Now, at the time I was not aware that the cory needed to be in a bigger tank so it can have a small school. After the glofish died (really didn't take long) I got a neon tetra and a cherry barb... again did not now that they were schooling fish and needed more room and a least 5 of each. I am aware now. Almost a year later the neon eventually died after a water change and after talking over my options with a very nice worker at petsmart I decided to add 2 female cherry barbs and have a small school of 3 (I know, not ideal for a small tank). They were all very happy for a couple of weeks and then out of nowhere one of the females died. Shortly after that my male (who I had for about a year with the neon tetra) died. 

So, after that there was just a female cherry barb, the cory dora and 1 snail. I decided I was done with regular fish and went to petco to look at the bettas. I came across a very lovely CT female that I named Cotton Candy because she is a very nice soft pink and blue color. I acclimated her very slowly to the tank and I saw absolutely no aggression towards the barb or any from the barb. They get along very very well, I think Cherry Pie (the barb) thinks she is a betta too. I went to petsmart for some new betta food when I came along Blueberry Muffin, a beautiful deep blue and red CT female. I figured I would be safe with the 3 fish in a 5 gallon tank. This is before I read about sororities and females living together. When I added Blueberry Muffin to the tank Cotton Candy and Cherry Pie paid her no attention at all. I monitored them all day and nothing. They all kept to themselves. Now, they are the bestest friends. They all swim in a little school together and there is no aggression at all. 

I also have a stunning double tail male named Cubie (named after the Rubik's Cube) who was in a 3 gal tank with a snail. It was one of those cylinder tanks from walmart. It was extremely hard to see Cubie in that tank because of the shape. I mean he would just disappear! I finally got tired of that tank and decided to do some upgrades. 

Now, Cubie is happy in his new home... the 5 gallon that the females used to be in. And the females got them a nice roomy 10 gallon. They still get along SUPER fantastic (knocks on wood). But I have a few questions:

Can I add another cory for the lonely guy/gal I have?
How many more females do I need... 3? I actually might I have one more... a baby that I bought from petco that I think is a female. Here is a thread about Einstein... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=112181
So, if Einstein is a female then I should only need 2 more ladies.
Will they gang up on Cherry Pie now that they will way outnumber her? I actually tried to rehome her but nobody I know has a tank with barbs.


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## nemolover

Great post! Cannot wait till I have enough space for a sororitie.


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## nel3

this question doesnt really regard sorotites directly but its still on topic. i just found out an LPS has female betta for $6. most are light brown with black stripes. there are 2-3 blue/red females of the 30 or so in the 5g LPS tank. its overcrowded as heck but how can one tell future color patterns for the brown and black betta? i do plan to get a female betta sometime in the future but first i'll get a PK when i have room for one. i have only 3 possible tanks i can put a female betta in but the're occupied until one passes. though a female PK would be a option i would go for if a KK or the 2.5g free up. im guessing it'll be difficult to determine at some point.


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## pyro fiend

personally nel i woudlnt try any number over 1 female at once in a 5g. unless you are able to divide it with suction cups or something for a few weeks.

blacks n browns with stripes usually means its stressed as heck :\ one of my males was like brown when i got him i thought 'oo a chocolate' got him home.. he turned blue in a few hrs o.0 and had a all black boy come home to be green [died shortly after tho </3] with black and brown to find in a lps/lfs its not very common for it to be a natural color. maybe ask the store their return poiicy of fish if you wana try to get them but find the color. that way you dont have 3 blue girls and a red or something ;p 

iv heard storys oof people bringing back those bettas and they turn all sorts of colors buddy of mine grabbed a all black girl few weeks ago shes now green and red o.0 weird how they can become a rainbow wen there happy


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## nel3

pyro fiend said:


> personally nel i woudlnt try any number over 1 female at once in a 5g. unless you are able to divide it with suction cups or something for a few weeks.
> 
> blacks n browns with stripes usually means its stressed as heck :\ one of my males was like brown when i got him i thought 'oo a chocolate' got him home.. he turned blue in a few hrs o.0 and had a all black boy come home to be green [died shortly after tho </3] with black and brown to find in a lps/lfs its not very common for it to be a natural color. maybe ask the store their return poiicy of fish if you wana try to get them but find the color. that way you dont have 3 blue girls and a red or something ;p
> 
> iv heard storys oof people bringing back those bettas and they turn all sorts of colors buddy of mine grabbed a all black girl few weeks ago shes now green and red o.0 weird how they can become a rainbow wen there happy


thank you very much. it looks like a few are relativly calm given thier tank size but the many others inside the same tank are very stressed at the situation. whenever i do get a female betta i probably wont ever return them to the store. though looks like anyone who gets a super-stressed female is in for a colourful surprise if cared for properly. i dont plan to get a sorority, no space for the proper tank. though single fish tanks are perfectly acceptable for me. fish returns may be possible but ive seen what sort of tank they're kept in and wouldn'twant to put the fish back in there.

is there any easy way to tell apart the fin types of the female betta when they're young? 

my newest male betta has orange and smoke grey fins. when i got him he had faint turquoise blue highlights on the fins but they're showing now where they werent before.


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## pyro fiend

h im so sorry i read that wrong. i thought you was asking if you can get a few girls n put them in a 5 npt XC i was half asleep :'(

but yea big suprize only betta tha was dark i didnt have a surprize was with my black male who had a orange tail and orange fins  oonly slight color change ihad was tails went from reddish to orange [tho had bad tail rot] and he got blue speckling on his back but never went lue even in a heated tank o.0

i luv this link helped me a bit for my new girls hope you can remember it when you visit you lps ;P http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/betta-fish/90911-how-tell-tailtype-you-female-betta.html


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## nel3

pyro fiend said:


> h im so sorry i read that wrong. i thought you was asking if you can get a few girls n put them in a 5 npt XC i was half asleep :'(
> 
> but yea big suprize only betta tha was dark i didnt have a surprize was with my black male who had a orange tail and orange fins  oonly slight color change ihad was tails went from reddish to orange [tho had bad tail rot] and he got blue speckling on his back but never went lue even in a heated tank o.0
> 
> i luv this link helped me a bit for my new girls hope you can remember it when you visit you lps ;P http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/betta-fish/90911-how-tell-tailtype-you-female-betta.html


NP on the misunderstanding, i do tend to make mistakes also when tired.

my only concern for the DeT blue colouring is taking over the punkpin orange but i'll see what he decides to do regarding tail colouring. he even has the uniform offset highlights on his body. ie like the VT female in the link you provided. the blue so far is creeping on the fin edges and a few spot interior of the grey. 

thank you very much for the female betta tail link. its very helpful and i'll definetely make a note to visit that site when the time comes to get a female betta. are CT females prone to fin curling due to hard water? my 2 male CTs have a bit of it but most regrowth is near perfect shape. CTPKs are pretty nice, they're quite distinct.


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## pyro fiend

honestly you got me stuck there ihave no idea on hardness tho ik my waters quite hard. and easily makes calc. buildup but iv yet had a girl get a curled tail, or even boy o.0

but mine, it did go over some of my boys orange. but not alot. but i wouldnt worry. iv never mixed red and blue paint and gotten orange  so i wouldnt think a scale can be orange and turn like blue. tho my boys finnage did a lil but mainly on the trim and some of the thingymajigers [staf thngs dk what to call them im tired XD] but not a whole lot. so i woudlnt worry to much on that


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## teeneythebetta

Yes CTs find will curl in hard water.


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## pyro fiend

teeney to the rescue. ig my water aint that hard afterall? o.0 then again my ct's harly lived past 6months </3


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## teeneythebetta

Yeah idk how long it takes for the fins to curl, I've never personally had a CT I just Picked up this info on the forum, I saw pics of CTs with curled fins its sad to look at but thankfully does no harm to the fish.
Petsmart sells an API carbonate hardness test


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## nel3

pyro fiend said:


> honestly you got me stuck there ihave no idea on hardness tho ik my waters quite hard. and easily makes calc. buildup but iv yet had a girl get a curled tail, or even boy o.0
> 
> but mine, it did go over some of my boys orange. but not alot. but i wouldnt worry. iv never mixed red and blue paint and gotten orange  so i wouldnt think a scale can be orange and turn like blue. tho my boys finnage did a lil but mainly on the trim and some of the thingymajigers [staf thngs dk what to call them im tired XD] but not a whole lot. so i woudlnt worry to much on that


i agree, the blue wont take over all the orange, its just an annoyance if it takes too much. i mainly got the betta for his orange colours and set back getting a PK. i still love the orange on him but i might need to rename him to Naruto if blue takes a noticeable area.

i got my first CT knowing fin can curl. my VT has some curling but i dont mind it too much. i still use tap water for the cts but add ozonised with max 002ppm of sediments to reduce the hardness and use IAL along with that their rays are still growing back to full length so i cant tell if the tips will curl just yet. thank you Teenythebetta for answering that question. it took 2-3 week for my pinapple CT to curl. he had tiny double rays on the tip ends. i think finrot got them eventually and then the regrew 80% of their original appearance.

lol i can imagine the annoyance of the LPS employee when someone asks for 1 tail type betta when there are 29 more that look nearly identical. i'll be heading to the general area of that LPS for other reasons tomorrow but i'll look at the female betta the currently have to check tail types though i didnt see many double tails. there were 2-3 colored females there, im presuming they might be one of the higher ranked individuals.


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## babystarz

I finally have a picture of my sorority tank; welcome to Bikini Bottom!










The tank is 14 gallons, with 5 girls. They have been in the sorority for about a month now and they're doing very well together, although they do all try to jump over each other into the air at feeding time. They remind me of a litter of ravenous puppies. I'll have to take a video next time I feed them bloodworms.

For shelter, there are 3 Pineapple houses, 1 Squidward house, and a big coral reef/cave thing. They all have at least 3 exits so nobody gets trapped in a corner. The fake plants are also quite big, they provide excellent cover. I may also add some surface plants in the future but the girls have not shown much aggression beyond normal after the first few days of settling in. In the future if I were to design a sorority, I'd probably prefer to go with live plants. But this one is really fun and colorful. Plus, it's right next to my TV so watching Spongebob is a trip


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## teeneythebetta

Cute tank, baby starz! I'm glad they get along


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## babystarz

Thanks teeney! I'm glad they get along too. I am going to permanently remove Gwen soon for breeding and add my two copper juvenile girls as soon as they're big enough sometime here in the next two weeks. So we'll see if the tank stands the test of some different fish! I'll be sure to switch around the decorations when I take everybody out of the tank too.


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## nel3

i am in some bit of luck regarding the female betta at the LPS. they're all PK though their colours arent too dazzling. its the usual red blue blend that one might find. i'll probably drop by there if the fish are still around when i have an empty space. i wouldnt call it saving though they are pretty darn stressed out so a brown black one will have some luck on her side.


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## pyro fiend

ooo nel make a post and update about her when you get her home, then in few hrs and then over next day or 2? i love seeing them change colors <3 XD


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## nel3

pyro fiend said:


> ooo nel make a post and update about her when you get her home, then in few hrs and then over next day or 2? i love seeing them change colors <3 XD


id love to do that though the only tanks that could hold a female betta would not be possible. those 3 are occupied by my 2 CT and DT. i have the other 2 betta in the 5g divided and only 1 hospital tank ie 1G tank. i dont have the space for any decent tank to go anywhere. i dont mind 1g tanks though 100wc every 2 days is a bit of work.

5 bettas is my personal limit due to tank size WC schedule. had i not lost a betta in the KK3.4g or 2.5g tank then a female is feasible. i got 2 males in the 5g the other one that died was from the 5g.

the females i saw had exterior red fins and either a blue/red or red/blue dominant hue. nothing really special in coloring. the demand for female betta is low and ppl prefer the flashy males do they didnt get any spectacularly colored female PK. though should the time come and those females are still alive, one will come to a better home.

the ones that were coloured had similar body colour to this guy though with more red hue on the body. you could say its a false purple at times.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1347427214


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## pyro fiend

lol my boy has a purple hue. he was all purple when i got him at wm.. got him me in a 2.5 he was a blue and purple... now hes been cycling my 20g his colors changed again.. hes a purple hued red and blue cambodian viel o.0 lol he kinda cute now.. but i liked having a purple betta [curses prodrummernate who said i should let him circ my 20g] lol thats a vry beautifull betta tho o.0


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## nel3

im not too crazy about purple bettas as there's no true purple but they still look very nice.


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## pyro fiend

well they do exist they even have breeders who try to make only purple babies. but it dont usually happen 100% maybe its a recesiv trait? or a nondominant whatsoever?? [shrug] no idea.. 2 of my boys have purple in their colors tho  thats all ik..XD


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## nel3

pyro fiend said:


> well they do exist they even have breeders who try to make only purple babies. but it dont usually happen 100% maybe its a recesiv trait? or a nondominant whatsoever?? [shrug] no idea.. 2 of my boys have purple in their colors tho  thats all ik..XD


those are the lucky ones. though the most i find are false purples. its a rare colour in my book to say the least.


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## pyro fiend

ya i talked to a few breedesr around here who have a real purple. one i went to his house.. he has a niiice 75g npt sorority with 4 dif purple females a ct pk vt and double tail i seen all 4 and my heart melted.. wanted them soo bad :'( i asked "how much would it cost just to get the vt" he said he cant put a price on it.. but if he had to..itd be at least a 100 for her </3 lol im sure a lil of thats gota do with emotional attatchment but still :'( purples are kinda rare. it aint paints you wont get the purple from red n blue.. youl just get red and blue XD


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## nel3

there's an LRS/LFS that got a green betta. i have no potograghic evidence as he told me this many months after he happened to come across it. he said it definetely wasnt a turquoise type of green. he didnt elaborate its fate but from the sounds of it, it was a genuine green betta.


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## pyro fiend

well back on topic [haha nel me n u are so bad ;P] iv updated my hopefully soon to be sorority  i added 3 amazon swords and took out the heavy filter [was used for cycling] and now im left with this.. plan on adding a plant or 2 more [types] to fill in some of the space but i think its looking great sofar!  amazons are back right corner [behind other type of swords] in front of the driftwood and a small ones behind the driftwood lil ight of the other [wanted one there but didnt wana dig up one of the bigger ones lol] 

i know i need a lil more cover and plants.. not sure how to do hides as i have no room for pots :\ and thats kinda what mine use [lil like 2in pots tho] but i do plan on getting like a fern for back left corner if my bulb dont grow n maybe a few nana's for front?


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## teeneythebetta

@Pyro

Your tank looks nice! I think a tall plant right near the center would defenitely help a lot. 
They reccomend that if you look on one side of the tank that you cant see the other side, that's how full it's reccomended to fill with plants.

Good luck with your sorority! :-D


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## pyro fiend

well im trying to let them grow as they are all small 4in plants [tho amazons were like 5in+] and i bought some betta bulbs hoping at least one of those proves out  il prob only put 4 girls in this 20high and nothing elese unless i find a Malaysian trumpet snail or something. so if i add say 1 tube of anubia, a few nana plants in front and the one seed in the tank. i think ill be set. again lettign them grow too and hoping i get my seeds to work [one ik is a dud its still rock hard after almost 3 weeks. and one looks like its sprouting lil leaves maybe but hoping it getting so cold the othr day wiel i was asleep with windows open didnt kill it] 

im wanting them to grow a bit so i have no casualties. also gona use as few females and plants as i think i can. again like i said im not done iv still got 2 or 3 tubes to buy [they hav 3+ plants in them usually] and im by nomeans adding girls any time soon. iv still got them in QT and still gota buy 2 of them lmao then wait 3 weeks on their QT XD im in no rush im just easing along and hoping more then one fish can call this home  i dont feel i can plant it as well sence the driftwoods in thereand i wana be able to at least kinda see the wood


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## emeraldmaster

My cousin just bred her monstrous male veiltail with her tiney female. i will recieve many female children when they come of age. my question... can i put 6-10 females in a 25 gallon tank with a male crowntail (my betta)? the water is cycled by a pump that is a little rough( splashingwater at the surface to produce air bubbles). ps... i have 30ish guppies and neon tetras in the tank.


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## teeneythebetta

No, males and females should never be housed together. Even if they don't show signs of agression, there have been people that had a male live with females for over a year before he killed them.

I suggest you have your friend seperate them before one is killed.


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## pyro fiend

teenys right give the male his own tank. like a 1-5g. and i fim not mistaken.. your tanks not filtered.. so it aint cycled.. its aerated.. also i think your tanks pretty overstocked as is.. you probably couldnt put even a singlelil betta without throwing the tank even further off

@teeny to you agree with the driftwood thing i said tho? think my npt sorority will be a flop?


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## ZergyMonster

pyro fiend said:


> well back on topic [haha nel me n u are so bad ;P] iv updated my hopefully soon to be sorority  i added 3 amazon swords and took out the heavy filter [was used for cycling] and now im left with this.. plan on adding a plant or 2 more [types] to fill in some of the space but i think its looking great sofar!  amazons are back right corner [behind other type of swords] in front of the driftwood and a small ones behind the driftwood lil ight of the other [wanted one there but didnt wana dig up one of the bigger ones lol]
> 
> i know i need a lil more cover and plants.. not sure how to do hides as i have no room for pots :\ and thats kinda what mine use [lil like 2in pots tho] but i do plan on getting like a fern for back left corner if my bulb dont grow n maybe a few nana's for front?


Not saying there is anything wrong with what you're doing because you're doing things correctly. You are waiting for your plants to grow in. To get the kind of cover and hiding places a sorority needs you can get a lot of stem plants (Anacharis, ludwigia, wisteria, etc) and spread them all around your tank so they create a "bush" my girls love to swim in through them and find quick escape from an angry sister.
Like this:


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## pyro fiend

=S now you make me feel bad..  ik im doing it all wrong.. im just trying to slowly build it.. im spending money i dont have to slowly build a great tank DX haha i love all the tanks i see here n want one decent lookin one.. but looks like im screwed.. may as well dig up my plants and find a normal 20 n make a comunity tank. my lps dnt sell nethng like those.. mainly few swords umbrella plants lillie pads and not much elese.. nothing you named.. n plants r expensive online :S h well ig </3 all hopes gone :S


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## ZergyMonster

I never said you were doing it wrong . I was just staying since you wanted hiding places for your girls I suggest using stem plants because they really do provide great cover and they grow fast enough that they will spread in your tank.

I have slowly built up to this as well, nothing happens over night, heck this was my first attempt at a sorority:








And that worked. Over the next 5 months I was able to get more and more plants just from having them grow and I am starting to throw out plants weekly. 

I was telling you that you're doing a good job and to keep up the good work! Please don't think I was telling you off.

I got most of my plants from an online source such as plantedaquariumscentral.com They even have a 10% coupon code BETTAFISH. Plants can have a large upfront cost but will be worth it because you will constantly be given more and more as they grow. 

People in this forum are also known to have great deals on plants and the like in the classified section. I've seen great selection and I have seen some people give out plants for free, these guys are really nice people.


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## teeneythebetta

Yeah don't feel bad! I've seen some people have a tank with like 1 plant and 1 cave and a peaceful sorority.

You don't NEED cover it just really helps in having a successful sorority.


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## pyro fiend

ok i have a question.. i was ust on a casual trip to wm. and i happened to walk past the pets.. and seen pink lids.. i SCRAMMED to the bettas. for the first time in ovr a yr my wm had females. and not just any females.. thease girls are HUGE! fatter then any of my males ever where. and almost look like king males i seen at petco o.0 one girl in her cup even had virtical lines.. thats right lines going up and down :O.. now ik my tank is not ready for a sorority. but can you put smaller and larger girls together? or should i get 2 more big girls.. thease gals are so fat and pretty :3


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## ZergyMonster

I've actually wondered that as well, would a king sized female be okay with regular? My first instinct would be to say no because of the possibility of disaster but I could be mistaken.


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## pyro fiend

well some people iv talked to say ny size can be with another so long as they are decent sized.. now my other girls are bout an inch.. whiel thease monsterous girls are 2inches or so one is pushin 3 now my mind says 3 things

1)it depends on the attitudes of a girl because if the smaller 2 are vicious then they can mes sup the big girls.
2) the bigger girls would more then likely become dominant but would be to slow to hurt the small girls
and 3) dont try it 

lol now personally i think all 3 are great things to think. now iv never had my girls together. theyv seen ea other but no flaring no nothing.. but then again, i didnt put them in same tank so not 100% if they are agressiv as they couldnt reach fins  no idea. ik some people say there dominant are big and fat and dont hurt the younger ones. but 2 small 2 large.. sounds like a disaster.. lol


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## babystarz

I've learned from my sorority tank that size doesn't matter much! The little ones are faster and can fit into smaller hiding spots. The bigger girls have no trouble defending themselves but they're slow. So it works out pretty well.


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## pyro fiend

great to know.. th i dnt have spots to hide yet lol.. but woke up to both grls dead [new ones] s ig i dnt gta worry bout tht now -.-


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## teeneythebetta

pyro fiend said:


> great to know.. th i dnt have spots to hide yet lol.. but woke up to both grls dead [new ones] s ig i dnt gta worry bout tht now -.-


Aww I'm sorry  
They passed away in quarantine?


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## pyro fiend

yea they was in those rectangular oval 1g 'betta bowls' woke up one was belly up on bottom =[ other was kinda floatimg. but still breathing. cuped dead girl and went back to sleep.. woke up 2 2nd girl the same way =[ i even had betta bottled water in the tanks to try n help them sence wm is bad fishkeepers... 

at first i thought my room getting cold killed first one. but my waters were ony reading 70+degrees in the 1gs and my bottle of wate was 69. but then thinking bout it.. wm dnt keep their betta warm n all my other fish r alive even my lil girls =[ so must have been stress and illness? idk =\ takin then back in lil n getting money back cuz 8bucks aint worth 2dead fish =[ n im not gna buy another from wm this month or netime soon </3


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## teeneythebetta

Aww I'm sorry. 
Being in too cold of water makes them prone to illness. 

It's not your fault because they were sick before, but next time try to keep whatever they're in at least 76 degrees, preferably 78-82


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## pyro fiend

yea i didnt figure one time being cold wld kill them. because my heater knocked over. and it has safty feature were it shuts self off. so it got rly cold. n when i found tht 1 dead i moved heater back n was perfect water temps for them all when i found 2nd girl dead =\ water was at 79 :C

oh well its done with ig :C

edit- its a room heater just incase you was wondering. i use it wen its cold to keep all the qt guys and or gals at perfect temps without waisting 30bucks ea on heaters they wont have/need long


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## Thunderloon

Betta don't suffer as quickly from temp-change shock but can suffer circulation issues from being too cool for too long.

This thread seems to have veered FAR from the original post's purpose.


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## betta526

Hello everyone. I just wanted to update my 30 gallon tank. Sad news. ALL my sororities passed away last week. It all happened when I introduced 6 white clouds to the tank. The day after I put the white clouds in, one white cloud died. I decided then to take them all out and returned them to the store. Then, one after another my bettas were dropping off like flies. Until there were none. I'm so sad. Missed them. 

I also have 5 neon tetras in there and about 8 ghost shrimps in that tank. They were not affected. Did a large partial water change after that too. I couldn't really tell what the bettas got, but I suspect dropsy. Probably the white clouds brought some parasites with them. Lesson learned, should have quarantined the white clouds.


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## teeneythebetta

Thunderloon said:


> Betta don't suffer as quickly from temp-change shock but can suffer circulation issues from being too cool for too long.
> 
> This thread seems to have veered FAR from the original post's purpose.


How? We were talking about quarantining females for a sorority.


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## Aahnay

Well, I put 7 females into the ten yesterday. It wasnt pretty. 3 where tied to each other, and I had to separate them. Then the SHARK went for shark2 . It was so fast, SHARK bit off half of sharks tail.  only leaving 2 rays on the half she bit off.

They fought for a long time, before shark2 decided to hide and run, instead of fighting. Then SHARK went after the other one she was after before? Pop fought her too. They circled, then boom SHARK had Pop by the nose! 

I just so freaked out.. i used the turkey baster and just put it in the water, nothing. I poofed a little water, and nothing.. Poor Pop, she was just held there. By what, one scale? I dont know.

I poofed harder and they SHARK released, but the fight continued. Finally Pop gave up too and hid.

Today, SHARK just cruises the tank and chases any of the other girls. Doesnt matter who it is. She will be after one, and it will dart and hide and then another will be close and boom she is after that one.

I think SHARK is too aggresive.. and I think perhaps shark2 may also be too agreesive. Maybe not.

Also I think SHARK used to be my fav and I had named her Mouse! But then again, the last female I brought home, all sisters, looked just like Mouse. I really dont want to separate them, but if this continues to tonight i will.

Now, should I pull shark2 out and give her a salt dip for her torn tail, and anal fins? 
SHARK has her tail, but has a spot on her side, and most of her anal fin is gone.

Pop is white, or gold, or both. She has a few black specs on her and a black stripe almost in the center of her tale, body to to tip? Do fish scar? I mean a different color? 

God SHARK was just chasing another one. I would think she would be so exhausted by now! She flares so big Id swear she was he. She is black with blue and has red sparks . Ive been trying to see if when she flares she has that male skin over it, but i cant .. 

Aquarium magnifiers? do they still have those?

Also, can plackat females be in with non-placket females? After reading the female type recognition link above, I may have 2 placket sisters. They have very short anals, but they may be clamped more now too.

Ok thanks very much.

Pop just tried to eat the snails tentacle  lol. Poor snails, hahahaha


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## pyro fiend

wo nay a book. personally idk much on these. but shark does sound super agressive.. maybe cup her and float in same tank? itl also let you see if shes a he?


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## angelus2402004

So how would you quarantine the females? If you buy whatever the amount of females for a 20 gallon is do you leave them in their cups?


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## pyro fiend

you wana qt them in a tank themselvs. i do 1gs. cuz thats what i have available, some ppl use 2.5's others use 5-10s. they will need to be qt for about 3-4weeks. dont you think theyv been in the cups long enough?;P


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## teeneythebetta

Your best bet is to keep them in cups (which need daily water changes) or in small containers, and float those in a larger heated tank. That way everything is the proper temp but you only need 1 heater.


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## pyro fiend

^ what he said. or you can cheat like me, its getting cold here so i use a heater in my room it makes the temp ideal for the bettas =]


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## teeneythebetta

lol thats the first time someone on here has called me a he xD
Im a girl though. :-D


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## pyro fiend

sorry i dont keep up with sexes ;( and your name can kinda go to either sex o.0 lol unlike names like ...[betta name here]s_momma or proud mommy lol sorry ill try to remember next time. i dont pay attention to things like that lol </3


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## teeneythebetta

lol no thats okay, I dont expect anybody to know lol :-D


----------



## pyro fiend

still feel bad ;'[


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## Aahnay

I put mine in 1 gallon square kinda tupper ware things from walmart.. and then put them in a big 7gal tub with a heater in it, in the center and then just used plastic mesh as tops for them.. they can see each other. I actually had to many and ended up dbling up 2 of the 1 gal with a mesh divider corner to corner, it worked well.

Since i know all my females came from the same place except one, the two newest didnt get QT for only about 1. 5 weeks. The first female i got was in qt the longest and she is the smallest. Poor little dear.

You dont need a 20 for them just a ten. Some say to just put them all into the ten as the qt and the final tank.

My shark will go in her own 4 gal when its empty, or back in with the girls, to try again. It much calmer in there but now the blueberry is the boss, but she isnt biting tails off!


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## pyro fiend

thats great to hear nay, glad you have a stabile sorority. im so jelly ;p i think shark prob would do best on her own. she seems super super suuuper mean lol imo sounds even too agressive to have even a cleanup crew or a larg snail -.-


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## Aahnay

Update:

I put shark back in the sorority, and it was calmer, no tail biting, but still hectic. Then last night about 8 pm when i was feeding them , I saw it!!!!

I have eggs! Shark is a male, and he mated with blue. I only saw the last time. 

Shark must be a placket too. His hangy down fins in front are short just like the girls. I pulled out the girls and all the fake stuff in there, and all but one snail, its too close to the nest.

I left him the eggs and her in there, but no more mating. I pulled her out at about 2:30 am. I read that when mating is over the male will kill the female. Since it had been hours since i saw them mating, I assumed it was over.

Lastnight I decided to give the eggs, not many, a chance, but as I lay there trying to go to sleep, I realized that was so dumb. I dont have any food for them, nor any room. I decided to take them out this am, and again, I couldnt bring myself to do it!

I cannt buy a 20 because there are none in my area. But i can buy another 10 for the sorority. Leave the eggs in the one they are in, and put the now 3 males in the ten. Or 2 in the ten, and one in the 4, which was to be the plant, snail, qt tank, always ready.

Oh well, I doubt the little guys will live, but today, the eggs that I can see do look real. He didnt make a nest, but used the leaves on the floating island for his nest. The eggs are tucked into a leaf, curled over another leaf. 

He is such a good father. Too bad there arent more eggs.


----------



## pyro fiend

WOW!!! crazy!! i hope they do live :\ i myself am having a bit of a delema with a male/female. i have her in a 1g qt and has all signs of female, egg spot, same length fins and evthng of my other girl same size.. but she blows tiny bubbles like a nest around rim.. i think i may test 'her' out before adding them in the 20 [still growing so may be a lil] just so i dont have the same thing happen :\ i hope all few make it.  sad that it happened. but id hate to see them all die :C 

did you lower the water level so they dont die if the eggs fall? or are you just going to see where this goes? :|


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## angelus2402004

so when i get my fish , i want to get some neon tetras and some female bettas for my 20 gallon. do I keep them in the same 10 gallon for quarantine but all the females separated from the neons until i put them in the 20 gallon?


----------



## skepkat

I have a new 10 gal tank for 4 females. I have 2 fry (Petco Baby Betta) and if they are girls they will be added. In another few months I plan to upgrade to a 29 gal for them.

Below is my tank set up (I love lots of plants in a tank - until they grow in well, I added some free floating Anubias). I have a heater, but don't want to add it yet (days are mostly over 80 still). Any recommendations?


----------



## pyro fiend

if im not mistaken the babys will take months to determin sex right?

thats looks kinda nice  i myself have a lil more plants, or well they cover more water i should say, and i dont feel comfortable at all with puting any females in yet. it looks like you was lucky and got some rly calm girls :O


----------



## Aahnay

i have 2 like that too, or one. I think they are females though. No fry. I looked closely and saw maybe one, but it was floating 1 inch below and away from the nest, he had no interest in it. I moved the bubble to look into the leaf cave, and nothing was there now.

females back, male out. Last night while feeding one jumped out of the tank. I didnt know and was looking in tank, then thought floor and there she was. She swims odd so I put her by self. She holds a little bend in her body, so she did get hurt. I feel very bad for her.

Now the new male today has build a huge nest, and is flaring. I think because he was young? he didnt get it till he was with all the girls. And, well it him him suddenly and he just did what came naturally. =) but now i three unwanted males.

Oh well. I think you can test him/her put next to a female, and put a bit of an arced cover in his bowl. See what happens. Although this female to male was housed with a female in the qt, and nothing happened. They were divided by mesh.


----------



## Aahnay

skepkat said:


> I have a new 10 gal tank for 4 females. I have 2 fry (Petco Baby Betta) and if they are girls they will be added. In another few months I plan to upgrade to a 29 gal for them.
> 
> Below is my tank set up (I love lots of plants in a tank - until they grow in well, I added some free floating Anubias). I have a heater, but don't want to add it yet (days are mostly over 80 still). Any recommendations?


I think even at 3 mos they are hard to sex unless you have been with them. If they are very little, then you cannot put with the 2 you already have. You should also have an odd number like 5 or 7, for 10 gal. In a 29 you can have more.

When you put them in put the weak in first then the strongest. But they need to be all the same age, thats why I got this group of girls, they are all sisters. Except one. and I think someone bought a sister, and then returned a diff one in her place. She is white and not a dragon, all the others are dragons and black or blue or red or all colors.


----------



## pyro fiend

i think ill test sherbert with a male when the time comes. shes like 2in tip to tip. and has evthng tht says female. i aint looked at beard tho as shes small and i dnt see it sticking out. but ik females also can make nests. paparazzi my hmdt is always flairing so i think hell be the perfect test subject


----------



## ZergyMonster

When measuring the size of a betta you measure from the tip of the nose to the beginning of the caudal tail.

I have a male whose beard has been "lost" to poor conditions so it can be hard to tell off beards alone. But there are a lot of different ways to tell males and females apart.


----------



## pyro fiend

thanks for the measuring tip, but this girl wont sit still for a second <3 i had a girl id'd on here a few weeks ago as a def female, and a vt. she looks 100% identical to the other girl,excluding colors, even same size. so im 85% sure shes a fem.
edit!also had no idea males can loose their beard from poor conditions :O


----------



## paris38

Hi!I am new and have been thinking about starting a soroity and was wondering if I could have 8 male guppies I currently own in it.The tank is a 38 gallon.


----------



## paris38

I was also wondering how many females I could have.Thanks!


----------



## MaisyDawgThirteen

paris38 said:


> I was also wondering how many females I could have.Thanks!


 I'd say you could fit around 15 girls in there with no other fish, other than the guppies, and it has a good quality filter, and you keep up w/ water changes.


----------



## paris38

Thank you MaisyDawgThirteen.I already have one female and she's in the 38 gallon divided with the guppies.Yesterday though,she got through and started chasing and biting the guppies.I took her strate out after but,now I'm thinking maybe she's not fit to live with other fish.Should I still do the the sorority with her in it or not risk it.


----------



## Showbiz

I'm planning on setting up a sorority in a 20gal (tall, I would have preferred a long but it's an old tank of ours from about 10 years ago so I didn't have much say in the matter), planted. I also have a few decorations/small terra cotta pots for shelter while the plants are growing in. I already have 5 neon tetras and one female betta in there, and it just cycled. How many girls total do you think I could fit?


----------



## pyro fiend

well im not sure on tht1. i do know i mentioned in the planted tank section i wanted to put corys and fems in it. was told lke 6 of ea would be great. so ima take a stab and say at least 10 or 12. but i think you should wait for plants first


----------



## Myates

Showbiz said:


> I'm planning on setting up a sorority in a 20gal (tall, I would have preferred a long but it's an old tank of ours from about 10 years ago so I didn't have much say in the matter), planted. I also have a few decorations/small terra cotta pots for shelter while the plants are growing in. I already have 5 neon tetras and one female betta in there, and it just cycled. How many girls total do you think I could fit?


A 20 tall will hold different than a 20 long tank.. you are looking at surface size when it comes to bettas. Since the tank is tall you would be fine with about 6-8 girls, along with your other fish in there. As the surface area is smaller, you don't want to jam it with the bettas, especially since you don't have the plants grown in. Make sure the plants reach the top of the tank, as top and mid level coverage is the most important when it comes to sororities.


----------



## cheynan

Do you think their color matters? I don't want one to get ganged up on.:shock:


----------



## Showbiz

pyro fiend said:


> well im not sure on tht1. i do know i mentioned in the planted tank section i wanted to put corys and fems in it. was told lke 6 of ea would be great. so ima take a stab and say at least 10 or 12. but i think you should wait for plants first


I'm too impatient to wait for my plants! xD I'll be buying more plants in a few days though, so when it does grow in it should be pretty full. 



Myates said:


> A 20 tall will hold different than a 20 long tank.. you are looking at surface size when it comes to bettas. Since the tank is tall you would be fine with about 6-8 girls, along with your other fish in there. As the surface area is smaller, you don't want to jam it with the bettas, especially since you don't have the plants grown in. Make sure the plants reach the top of the tank, as top and mid level coverage is the most important when it comes to sororities.


That's what I thought, and why I wanted to ask. . . sounds good! I have some anacharis floating at the top, which the one girl I have in there right now absolutely loves!


----------



## polukoff

cheynan said:


> Do you think their color matters? I don't want one to get ganged up on.:shock:


No, I mix Plakats with halfmoons even. It all depends on the individual fish, some are more aggressive than others.


----------



## Viva

So glad this is a sticky, gonna be needing it when I finally move to a new apartment and get my 30 or 40 gallon, heavily planted tank...I plan on putting my four green Cory's in with about 12 females, adding 3 at a time. I have it all planned out...I can't wait! Won't be for about another year though


----------



## bryzy

Current time I have to females from same spawn( I think ). Planning to eat 4 more.


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## bryzy

EAT HOLY CRAP! Totally meant GET! I would never do such a thing!


----------



## Viva

Can't wait to start my betta sorority  I believe my dad is going to buy me a 40 gallon tank for Christmas with all the stuff I need (filter, heater, stand). I'm going to try a natural planted tank with looots of plants and some nice decor. I'll add my four juvenile Cory catfish that I currently have in my planted 10 gallon, some trumpet snails and maybe some shrimp, though I don't know what type yet. I'm too excited


----------



## bryzy

Viva, you wanted to add females correct?


----------



## Viva

Yes


----------



## bryzy

Oh. How many?


----------



## Viva

Not sure yet, won't be for at least another two months or maybe more but I'm hoping 12 - 15, probably 12.


----------



## bryzy

Oh


----------



## MeganJo215

How many females would y'all suggest having in a sorority if you only had a 5-gallon tank? Or would that even work?


----------



## bryzy

Well, a 5 is for about 3. But that means that 2 could gang up on 1.


----------



## LebronTheBetta

It won't work. 10 is the minimum for sororities. You'll need at least 4 IMO.


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## bryzy

True.


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## azurefox

good morning,
I have been reading all of this page, and I wanna start a new sorority too 
now I have 2 female (I separate them tho..)
1 is already grown up, size 5 cm, 5 months age
1 still 3 months age, size 4 cm
I attach the comparisson too

if I put the bigger female into the tank with the smaller 1, will the smaller 1 is going to be beaten by the big 1? 

oh I plan to add 2 females again tho... (still searching other females before I introduce them to each other)

and I'm wondering, is size 3.5 months still a baby? when They're growing up bigger, is their agression also getting bigger too?

thank you so much

plan to put them in 30 litre tank  (60x25x24)cm


----------



## BettaAngel13

Great post,it helped me set up my 10 gallon tank for my female betta and 
her sisters.They are the happiest fish I've seen.


----------



## Shirleythebetta

azurefox said:


> good morning,
> I have been reading all of this page, and I wanna start a new sorority too
> now I have 2 female (I separate them tho..)
> 1 is already grown up, size 5 cm, 5 months age
> 1 still 3 months age, size 4 cm
> I attach the comparisson too
> 
> if I put the bigger female into the tank with the smaller 1, will the smaller 1 is going to be beaten by the big 1?
> 
> oh I plan to add 2 females again tho... (still searching other females before I introduce them to each other)
> 
> and I'm wondering, is size 3.5 months still a baby? when They're growing up bigger, is their agression also getting bigger too?
> 
> thank you so much
> 
> plan to put them in 30 litre tank  (60x25x24)cm


Minimum is ten gallons four females though personally I think five or six girls is better. I wouldnt put two alone. Pick u out a few more gals. Release at the same time. I have a twenty long with fifteen girls for abt two years. I still saw aggression at every stage of putting it together and still see nipping. I keep the water super clean and that keeps away fin rot. The thing to remember with sororities is having enough girls, super clean water, and patience.


----------



## Shirleythebetta

Oh I never had a problem with size differences. Some of my small gals were meaner than the big ones.


----------



## bryzy

I had two females together. It didn't work, so I split them. I'm not aloud to get any more fish. So I can't have a sorority. I'm planning on putting my male, oasis in the big tank and putting rose in his old 1


----------



## azurefox

Shirleythebetta said:


> Minimum is ten gallons four females though personally I think five or six girls is better. I wouldnt put two alone. Pick u out a few more gals. Release at the same time. I have a twenty long with fifteen girls for abt two years. I still saw aggression at every stage of putting it together and still see nipping. I keep the water super clean and that keeps away fin rot. The thing to remember with sororities is having enough girls, super clean water, and patience.


thank you for ur reply... well I still confuse between put my Male and Female alone in the 30 litre tank... or start a sorority, but I don't want to take a risk if the couple will mate, so I think I wanna put few females in there... 
I hope 4 females would be okay^^i I'm afraid they're not comfortable too if the tank is too crowded..

I'll really monitor them tho.. looks like am gonna have a few sleeping times for few weeks, hahaha... incase that they will be rough to each other..


----------



## Viva

azurefox said:


> thank you for ur reply... well I still confuse between put my Male and Female alone in the 30 litre tank... or start a sorority, but I don't want to take a risk if the couple will mate, so I think I wanna put few females in there...
> I hope 4 females would be okay^^i I'm afraid they're not comfortable too if the tank is too crowded..
> 
> I'll really monitor them tho.. looks like am gonna have a few sleeping times for few weeks, hahaha... incase that they will be rough to each other..


I'd go with the sorority. A male and female together will either breed or fight to do the death.


----------



## azurefox

thank you for the advice all^_^
still continue prepare the tank
is this setting enough for hiding places? O_O
or I should add more plant?


----------



## Silverfang

*walks off with Azure's tank*

no seriously it's great. Some more taller plants would be great. I'd suggest a few stem plants like cabomba (my favorite) and wisteria.


----------



## Beckwithbabe

bryanacute said:


> Current time I have to females from same spawn( I think ). Planning to eat 4 more.


Omg I laughed so hard great typo!! Lol


----------



## Viva

I <3 Craigslist! I may be getting my 30 gallon tank along with some decor and a filter for just $45! And he'll DELIVER it to me! BETTA SORORITY HERE I COME!


----------



## bryzy

beckwithbabe said:


> omg i laughed so hard great typo!! Lol


my phone always changes get to eat!!


----------



## LissaLooHoo

I've finally established my sorority tank! The tail nipping, and the pecking order is driving me insane... It's so scary! I have 5 bettas in a twenty gallon tank with plenty of hiding coverage. I'm highly afraid this won't work, but I have out a lot of effort and time into the tank, so I'm hoping I can survive a day or two of fin nipping. How long does the nipping stage last?


----------



## Shirleythebetta

LissaLooHoo said:


> I've finally established my sorority tank! The tail nipping, and the pecking order is driving me insane... It's so scary! I have 5 bettas in a twenty gallon tank with plenty of hiding coverage. I'm highly afraid this won't work, but I have out a lot of effort and time into the tank, so I'm hoping I can survive a day or two of fin nipping. How long does the nipping stage last?


Nobody can tell you how long it will last. I hate to say that. I have had one for two years and they still nip it's a normal thing. The time varies. Just relax and keep an eye out for injuries. Best of luck to you. :-D


----------



## LissaLooHoo

Shirleythebetta said:


> Nobody can tell you how long it will last. I hate to say that. I have had one for two years and they still nip it's a normal thing. The time varies. Just relax and keep an eye out for injuries. Best of luck to you. :-D


Thanks a bunch Shirley!! I am so glad to hear you've actually kept one for two years. That's awesome. I'm so worried it won't work, and knowing you've made it that far is awesome. The pecking order is just near enough to make me crazy... Especially with my babies of the tank who just sit back and take it.. Thanks so much!


----------



## bryzy

All of my females have red. Except one. She is totally blue. The Cambodian pick a LITTLE on the regular colored female with red fins but all three of them pick one the blue A LOT. there fine though. Nothing serious.


----------



## Shirleythebetta

LissaLooHoo said:


> Thanks a bunch Shirley!! I am so glad to hear you've actually kept one for two years. That's awesome. I'm so worried it won't work, and knowing you've made it that far is awesome. The pecking order is just near enough to make me crazy... Especially with my babies of the tank who just sit back and take it.. Thanks so much!


Your welcome. I was freaked out at first but now I am used to nipped fins. Just remember to have a hospitol tank available for any girl that gets to roughed up. And remember if you have a girl that is overly agressive you can cup her and float her in the tank for a couple of days. That helps sometimes. PM me if you want to ask me anything.


----------



## Tikibirds

I guess I got lucky - I never really have or had much aggression. Every now and then some one will have a nip but it's like once every few months. The most I get is some chasing. Over the past 2 years or so - out of about 30 females - I have only found one that was too aggressive.



> if I put the bigger female into the tank with the smaller 1, will the smaller 1 is going to be beaten by the big 1?


 In my experience, the size/age has not mattered. I have had small, young females mixed in with adults and one of them was a giant or pretty close to being a giant betta.



> EAT HOLY CRAP! Totally meant GET! I would never do such a thing!


LMAO. You would probably need to eat more then 4 to feel full


----------



## LissaLooHoo

Shirleythebetta said:


> Your welcome. I was freaked out at first but now I am used to nipped fins. Just remember to have a hospitol tank available for any girl that gets to roughed up. And remember if you have a girl that is overly agressive you can cup her and float her in the tank for a couple of days. That helps sometimes. PM me if you want to ask me anything.


3rd day, and they've finally settled down. Happy I stuck in through! They get along now, and while I still have some gill flaring and nipping they can actually be near each other. Thanks so much for the help.


----------



## Hershey

Yeah, it's a fun experience seeing who the leader is and all.


----------



## LissaLooHoo

Hershey said:


> Yeah, it's a fun experience seeing who the leader is and all.


It really is. They have all their own personality


----------



## Silverfang

Fins nipped and frayed are normal. I only worry when scales get missing. Honestly it's my trio of blues who are the snarkiest, to each other.

From what I've experienced. The more girls the better, the less less fighting. They are pretty mellow in my tank. 8 girls will flop over each other in a writhing mass! Food! I have one girl who sticks to herself, but she is about three times the size of the rest.


----------



## Shirleythebetta

I have some massive girls too. Three veil tails and a crown tail that seem to keep growing and growing! Your welcome Lissa


----------



## azurefox

okay..I already put my females in my tank..
At first I put 4,, 1 Salamander Female, 1 Red HM Female, and 1 Copper Female, 1 Black Red HM Female...

then the Lost 1 is the Black Red HM..since she's got the least size of body
the 2 of them (Red HM and Copper) keep chasing this little small Back Red HM..
(I use chopstick if the chasing get worse, just in case tho.., so they change their focus to my chopstick).
Then because of the Unbalance situation, I put in the Red Giant HM..and yes the situation seems get better..
now the least position in the pack is 2 now...Red HM and Back Red HM..
their colours seems paler than the rest 3...
The Red Big Giant HM seems more gentle than the Copper....
The Copper HM love to chase the females that smaller than her..
(my question is, should I take the Copper out?)
I still watching the situation tho...

the only victim now is the corry T_T he got missing eye (one on the left) sigh
I don't know who nipped the corry...*sad*

should I put Melafix inside the aquarium?


----------



## azurefox

err okay, I need to edit

*EDITED VERS*
this one is more complete and detail

okay..I already put my females in my tank..
At first I put 4,, 1 Salamander Female, 1 Red HM Female, and 1 Copper Female, 1 Black Red HM Female...

then the Lost 1 is the Black Red HM..since she's got the least size of body
the 2 of them (Red HM and Copper) keep chasing this little small Back Red HM..
(I use chopstick if the chasing get worse, just in case tho.., so they change their focus to my chopstick).
Then because of the Unbalance situation, I put in the Red Giant HM..and yes the situation seems get better..
now the least position in the pack is 2 now...Red HM and Back Red HM..
since I put the Red Giant HM, the Black Red HM went out from its hiding place, then start to fight back....
well...I saw that the red giant HM seems protect those 2...
but still their colours seems paler than the rest 3...(sometimes turns to normal, but sometimes paler
The Red Big Giant HM seems more gentle than the Copper....
The Copper HM love to chase the females that smaller than her..
and I got the situation when the Red Giant HM protect the small Red from the Copper, and those 2 start to flare each other..

(my question is, should I take the Copper out? seems the most naughty one now is the copper)
I still watching the situation tho...

the only victim now is the corry T_T he got missing eye (one on the left) sigh
I don't know who nipped the corry...*sad*

should I put Melafix inside the aquarium?


----------



## azurefox

had to do this....after I put the copper into the cup..they're normal, no chasing, no flaring... (well, should I release back the copper after a while?)


----------



## Shirleythebetta

I usually cup the agressors like that for two days them release. If she's still naughty cup again. If she is still naughty she may not be cut out for sorority life. She may need to live alone.


----------



## azurefox

Shirleythebetta said:


> I usually cup the agressors like that for two days them release. If she's still naughty cup again. If she is still naughty she may not be cut out for sorority life. She may need to live alone.


okay! gonna try that seems I need to cup her for a while until she's calmer


----------



## Shirleythebetta

yea cupping them seems to help some of the more agressive females change their attitude. It prevents them from attacking so it helps them to relearn behaviors. At least thats what I think happens.


----------



## azurefox

Shirleythebetta said:


> yea cupping them seems to help some of the more agressive females change their attitude. It prevents them from attacking so it helps them to relearn behaviors. At least thats what I think happens.


I think it's true.. I tried to release the copper now..around 10 minutes she didn't chase the small females at all...
but there are still flaring and a lil bit of chasing tho...dunno when it will end O___O" *still watching them..


----------



## sunshineandish

*great post*

very informative...they are beautiful fish




http://www.youtube.com/user/sunshineandish


----------



## azurefox

update day 2 :
a nipping on my Salamander's Anal Fin =_=
dunno which one who nipped her.. 

this morning I found my Small Red Plakat is chasing everyone..so I cup her now.. 
The Copper flares at everyone who go near her...but doesn't chase other fishes (is that mean she's an Alpha?). But I found her followed my small Black Red HM.. just afraid that She plans on something to hurt the little black one..XD oh no..


----------



## azurefox

the Video, my 5 Females in this Sorority 

http://youtu.be/5Y_y6KeBaIA


----------



## azurefox

hello..need help..
I hve a problem with this female, she keep chasing the little one..
but she never chase other, what should I do about this female? does it mean she doesn't fit in this sorority? but she only chase this little female tho.. =_=


----------



## Beckwithbabe

Would 6 in a 10 gal be to many??


----------



## carbonxxkidd

I'm in the process of planning a heavily planted 29 gallon sorority/community. I really want to have corys, kuhli loaches and females, and possibly something else for a middle-tank fish. I get my substrate next week (eco-complete, had to order it online, much cheaper there) and then I am going to plant my tank. I plan on adding the bettas last, and it probably won't be for a few weeks (hopefully I can keep my patience!!!). Aquadvisor says my tank will be 99% stocked with 5 kuhlis, 6 females, 6 corys, 6 rasboras, and 3 amano shrimp...but I am not really sure what I will end up with once I actually get the tank started.

Anyway, this might be a dumb question, but if you have to remove females and rearrange the tank, how do you do it in a planted tank without disturbing all the plants? Or is it just not really possible?


----------



## Myates

Azure, when you introduced the new female, did you change the items in the tank around? 

I would remove them all, change the tank around to look different and then add them in at the same time - sometimes that will help.


----------



## azurefox

Myates said:


> Azure, when you introduced the new female, did you change the items in the tank around?
> 
> I would remove them all, change the tank around to look different and then add them in at the same time - sometimes that will help.


nope, I didnt change the background at all...
well I put all of them in at the same time at first...
now the copper, red giant, and the salamander are never fight, only 2 of my little bettas (red plakat and the black red HM) that keep flaring to other 3...
I put them in the breeding box now inside the tank, hopefully in the future I can release them without fight anymore..


----------



## shellieca

azurefox said:


> nope, I didnt change the background at all...
> well I put all of them in at the same time at first...
> now the copper, red giant, and the salamander are never fight, only 2 of my little bettas (red plakat and the black red HM) that keep flaring to other 3...
> I put them in the breeding box now inside the tank, hopefully in the future I can release them without fight anymore..


I don't know how long your girls have been together but sometimes it takes a few days to a week or so to settle down. 2 of my girls, when 1st introduced 2 months ago, literally tried to kill each other, i put one into an opaque bowl for a few hours floating in the tank, then re-introduced her with little to no problem. I currently have 10 females in a 46g & they do a little chasing but not like they did in the beginning. One of my smaller newer girls, about 2 wks, actually chases my largest oldest girl. Unless the aggression is EXTREMELY bad & causing injury outside of nipped fins, I would let them work it out. You may need to add more plants (real or silk) &/or structures, I don't know what size tank you have.


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## azurefox

shellieca said:


> I don't know how long your girls have been together but sometimes it takes a few days to a week or so to settle down. 2 of my girls, when 1st introduced 2 months ago, literally tried to kill each other, i put one into an opaque bowl for a few hours floating in the tank, then re-introduced her with little to no problem. I currently have 10 females in a 46g & they do a little chasing but not like they did in the beginning. One of my smaller newer girls, about 2 wks, actually chases my largest oldest girl. Unless the aggression is EXTREMELY bad & causing injury outside of nipped fins, I would let them work it out. You may need to add more plants (real or silk) &/or structures, I don't know what size tank you have.


my tank is 8 gall  
they've been together for almost 1 week
I introduce them before in divided tank for almost 1 week too
3 of my girls are really in harmony and friendly to each other..they often swim together closely and don't flare to each other... but it seems 2 of my girls's agresiveness is bigger. (so total in the tank are 5 fishes). They seems need more time than the other 3.. well, for now I use breeding box tactic XD and Cupping->really effective


----------



## shellieca

azurefox said:


> my tank is 8 gall
> 3 of my girls are really in harmony and friendly to each other..they often swim together closely and don't flare to each other... but it seems 2 of my girls's agresiveness is bigger. (so total in the tank are 5 fishes). They seems need more time than the other 3.. well, for now I use breeding box tactic XD and Cupping->really effective


Aww, 8g, IMO is going to be tricky, not much room for them to escape each other. I hope it works out.


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## azurefox

shellieca said:


> Aww, 8g, IMO is going to be tricky, not much room for them to escape each other. I hope it works out.


yep! the trick that successful for me I think is Cupping (for now)
before I release all 4 of them, then because of unbalanced situation, I add 1 again, for 2 days seems okay, but on the 3rd day I found out that the causes of the fight is only 2 of my Bettas, which I put them in breeding box now...
2 of my bettas being friend since the 4rd day... and 1 Betta, I successed to remove her agresiveness through Cupping trick .

I put many plants, moss, rocks, for now they have their own places, and they often swim together too...except the 2 in the breeding box

this is the tank : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0vXTCMWPWI


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## fishy314

Beckwithbabe said:


> Would 6 in a 10 gal be to many??


According to AqAdvisor, that would be 85% of the 10 gal. I recommend that you put about four in a 10 gallon, since decorations, filter, gravel, etc. also take up space.


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## MattsBettas

Great post! If they are from the same spawn and have never been seperated, will they be less aggressive towards each other?


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## LebronTheBetta

That will most likely happen. Based on the fact that they have grown up with each other, they should be more fond of each other.


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## Mandy Pandy

I did it! I read this ENTIRE thread! I received a 20 gallon long for Christmas and have plans to turn it into my dream tank, a sorority. Current plans are for 1 bristle nose pleco, 1 mystery snail, 7 neon tetras, and 9 betta girls. I've done tons of research but now's the hard part.. Waiting for the tank to cycle and the plants to grow.. And to get home! (I'm out of town for the holidays until Monday so I haven't gotten started yet ) I'm ordering some plants tomorrow and I'll get more from PetSmart sometime next week.


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## AyalaCookiejar

I wanted to join this thread since I'll be setting up my ten gallon sorority soon, all 5 or 6 girls purchased from breeders. Hoping to get a larger tank soon but this will work for now. I love females so much... They are so cute  Many of them I find more interesting to watch than males!


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## Shirleythebetta

Looking forward to hearing about your adventures. Sororities truly are an adventure


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## Silverfang

and a roller coaster!

But so worth it at times like this.


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## Mandy Pandy

It's a work in progress. I have more plants coming in soon


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## repru04

It looks great. Can't wait to see it fully planted.


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## cdouglas93

This is my 10g tank that I'm planning on turning into a sorority with 4 females and 4 dwarf cories. The reason the corner on the far right seems empty is because I have a few plants planted in that section as I am hoping to one day turn this into a planted tank instead of having it just silk. Any advice is appreciated.


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## cdouglas93

So here is a quesiton. Some of you might have seen that I want to start my own sorority but with a ten gallon I can only have 4 or 5 tops. Atm I have a little girl that my boyfriend had gotten me as a gift. After following this forum for a while I would rather rescue some female betta's or purchase them from some other non-petstore. I'm not looking to breed these females so that doesn't matter to me. I live in NE ohio.


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## Mandy Pandy

More plants!


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## AyalaCookiejar

cdouglas93 said:


> So here is a quesiton. Some of you might have seen that I want to start my own sorority but with a ten gallon I can only have 4 or 5 tops. Atm I have a little girl that my boyfriend had gotten me as a gift. After following this forum for a while I would rather rescue some female betta's or purchase them from some other non-petstore. I'm not looking to breed these females so that doesn't matter to me. I live in NE ohio.


I am putting 6 girls in my ten gallon. I have three right now being QTed in separate one gallon tanks that I ordered from Mo on this forum and I'm getting my other three from Chard56 on this forum. More girls is better... I also have a back up 4 gallon in case one of the girls doesn't work out.

If you do rescues and get sick looking girls at a pet store, you'll need to harass them to give them to you for free. Convince them that they are sick and they will die in the store if they don't give them to you. No reason in paying the pet stores so they can order more fish and take bad care of them...

The problem with rescuing fish for a sorority is that all of them need to be QTed and nursed back to health before you can put them in one tank and the girls in the pet store aren't usually socialized as much at birth as girls from private breeders, so you may get girls who are too aggressive for sorority life. If I were doing rescues, I'd keep them in separate tanks indefinitely... Getting younger healthy girls from a breeder is your best bet for females that are suited for sorority life.


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## cdouglas93

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I am putting 6 girls in my ten gallon. I have three right now being QTed in separate one gallon tanks that I ordered from Mo on this forum and I'm getting my other three from Chard56 on this forum. More girls is better... I also have a back up 4 gallon in case one of the girls doesn't work out.
> 
> If you do rescues and get sick looking girls at a pet store, you'll need to harass them to give them to you for free. Convince them that they are sick and they will die in the store if they don't give them to you. No reason in paying the pet stores so they can order more fish and take bad care of them...
> 
> The problem with rescuing fish for a sorority is that all of them need to be QTed and nursed back to health before you can put them in one tank and the girls in the pet store aren't usually socialized as much at birth as girls from private breeders, so you may get girls who are too aggressive for sorority life. If I were doing rescues, I'd keep them in separate tanks indefinitely... Getting younger healthy girls from a breeder is your best bet for females that are suited for sorority life.


This is great advice. Thank you. I have some time as I have to let my current tank cycle (The one I'm planning on turning into a sorority.) When I said rescues I really didn't mean sick ones but more towards betta that were in need of homes or unwanted. Guess this means I could very easily get a sick Betta. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.


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## AyalaCookiejar

I guess there are a lot of different interpretations if the word "rescue"  I've heard, though, that the best females for a sorority are young siblings who have never been separated.
I chose to go with private breeders to have healthier, more socialized females, but I have seen some pet store bought sororities work out.


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## cdouglas93

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I guess there are a lot of different interpretations if the word "rescue"  I've heard, though, that the best females for a sorority are young siblings who have never been separated.
> I chose to go with private breeders to have healthier, more socialized females, but I have seen some pet store bought sororities work out.


It was truly my fault for not being more specific. I am atm talking to a women who has three sisters she is willing to sell me. So I am learning. haha


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## AyalaCookiejar

cdouglas93 said:


> It was truly my fault for not being more specific. I am atm talking to a women who has three sisters she is willing to sell me. So I am learning. haha


Oh, lol. Sorry. Maybe that would be "adoption"? Haha.


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## cdouglas93

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Oh, lol. Sorry. Maybe that would be "adoption"? Haha.


yeah hahaha! I think your right... adoption is the better word. haha


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## tnvol

My daughter just started one in her empty 10 gallon. She brought these two home yesterday afternoon. I figured we would see how these 2 do together and then add a couple more in 3 weeks or so. These were together in the same tank at the shop they came from. They haven't chased or nipped at each other as of yet so we are keeping our fingers crossed. I'm so proud of her. She is really turning into a responsible fish owner.


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## NapoleonUWS

Great information on sororities here!

Late to the party here... been really busy with work and didn't have time to post about my sorority - 

Started my sorority last fall with 4 gals (I know 5 is recommended) and things are still going great! All four gals are relatively the same age (size) and I have had little or no fights or nipping (fingers crossed!).
In fact, two of the gals are quite chummy and stay together all the time (strange?)... they are not nippy with the two lone girls and only occasionally give them a chase... the single gals just get out of the way... they all eat together and there have been no issues...

I've also noticed that the girls seem to have bigger appetites than all the boys I've had in the past. Is that just me dreaming that up? 

My tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places, floating plants, etc...
Seems to be working! Am I just lucky? 

I have to say, I've only had male bettas in the past, but I LOVE having all the girls in a tank together... feels more like a family! Colors, MORE BETTAS!
Will post pics later...

NapoleonUWS


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## logisticsguy

Yes a sorority tank is awesome. Your not dreaming about the difference in appetites. Girls in my sorority are little piggies compared to my males. I prefer female betta over the males anyway so Im a bit weird.


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## Demysta

Hey guys! So... I'm planning to get a nice 10 gallon tank thats complete with plants, gravel, hood, lights, and filter and I'm wondering... just how many girls could be appropriate for a 10 gallon sorority tank? I've never tried a sorority before, so I'm really excited!


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## tnvol

logisticsguy said:


> Yes a sorority tank is awesome. Your not dreaming about the difference in appetites. *Girls in my sorority are little piggies compared to my males.* I prefer female betta over the males anyway so Im a bit weird.


Ours are too. They act like they are starving every time someone walks by their tank.


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## Mandy Pandy

Demysta said:


> Hey guys! So... I'm planning to get a nice 10 gallon tank thats complete with plants, gravel, hood, lights, and filter and I'm wondering... just how many girls could be appropriate for a 10 gallon sorority tank? I've never tried a sorority before, so I'm really excited!


I think it's been agreed upon that 7 is the best number for a 10.


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## cdouglas93

What if you want to have a sorority plus some a little community in a ten? Could I do five and something else?


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## Mandy Pandy

I'll let someone more experienced than me answer that but I know more girls = better. The more girls you have the more any aggression is spread out.


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## Bombalurina

Just because of the bioload, I would suggest 5-6 girls and some shrimp or a couple of nerite snails, rather than some community fish. Not that I ever listen to my own advice on stocking!  

I'm down to just one girl from my lovely sorority now, and she's on the death watch.  What do I do? Have another sorority? Go for just one male? Go for a totally different species? Do I buy from a shop or from aquabid?
This is for my 16 gallon, taller-than-it-is-wide, heavily planted community.


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## Boostedmopar

*My 10 gallon sorority.*

This is the ten gallon sorority tank I started yesterday. It has 7 females (2 veil tales and the rest crown tales. Before anyone says anything I already know it is considered slightly, overcrowded. These are all young fish from Petco (although I normally support local small business). I have baffled filtration for a 30 gallon. It is heavily planted and the aquarium was already cycled. The view is broken up and I will eventually move the setup into a 20 long. For the most part they have established territory and leave each other alone. They are fascinating to watch. My Bettas are all named with pictures on my page. There are a lot of nice settups here! Now back to homework for college.


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## Bombalurina

It's very pretty, but I would seriously get some more tall plants. There is a heap of open space there that could lead to fighting.


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## kdriscoll

Hello there! I'm new to the group and also new to bettas. I got a male betta on a whim back in October and have loved him so much I decided to start an all female tank. I didn't exactly plan on it. I got one female the other day, along with some platys to try out and she seemed so very unhappy. Today I ended up returning the platys and cleaning the pet store out of their female bettas. I have 6 altogether now. The original female seems to be the dominate one so far, but I suppose only time will tell. Two others are giving her a run for her money, but she doesn't seem to be backing down. I'm really, really hoping it works out & everyone can settle soon and be happy. I'm sooo excited about this tank! I want it to work out very much. I'm loving reading everyone elses experiences on here!


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## Boostedmopar

Thank you for the comment and I plan on going back to The Pet Works today to get more plants. There hasn't been any fighting yet but that doesn't mean it cannot happen!


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## Sagat

Since people are showing and offering advice on tanks, could this tank support a sorority? My male is so aggressive towards the otos and rasboras in it that I'm having to take him out for his own well-being. 

It's a 20L and it doesn't have what I would consider a lot in terms of cracks and crevices to hide in. The top third of the water column is going to be sparse until the stems grow in.

If/when I'm able to remove that giant rock holding the driftwood down, there should be enough room to build a moss tunnel, but outside of that, there's plants and driftwood everywhere.


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## AyalaCookiejar

I think it looks nicely planted. I honestly wouldn't put any caves in a sorority tank that only have one opening for fear that any girl being chased would go in and not be able to escape (I'm not sure what you mean by cracks and crevices).


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## Sagat

That's exactly what I meant. In all my researching, I frequently come across sorority tanks with terra cotta pots or cave-like hideouts.

The moss tunnel would definitely have multiple exits -- I've just been wanting to build one of those for the fun factor and I still have leftover material from the moss wall I built on the backside of that driftwood.


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## AyalaCookiejar

Yeah, my current set up only has plants. I avoided caves because I wasn't able to find any safe ones with enough exits. You don't want places where girls being chased could be trapped. It might not be a huge deal, but it is a risk. They'd be able to hide and get away from each other with plenty of plants.


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## Mandy Pandy

Walmart has some nice inexpensive decorations that have multiple exits. I got a nice stump for my tank that has some silk pla ts attached. As soon as my plants grow in Kia bit more I plan on ripping them off.


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## f150guy

*My 20g Community/Sorority tank*

We recently setup a 20g planted tank for the kids that's been cycled and holds:

1-black molly(pregnant)
1-white balloon molly
2-black skirt tetras
3-neon tetras
2-guppies
2-albino cories

I told my wife that I wanted to put a male betta in there and she flipped her lid about how it would eat the other fish and I'd end up with three crying toddlers.

So after reading about the sororities; my Petco just restocked and I found 2 ct girls and 2 vt's. The plan was to throw them in there and find an excuse to get another tank.

After the first hour my largest vt and smallest ct were constantly doing the tango and nipping- it ended with the vt looking like at double tail, but I think they've decided who is alpha(vt). The other two ladies will spread their fins but just swim away when followed.

I know it seems overcrowded, but after watching everything for several days everything seems to work. Everyone plays well together. The sorority actual sleep together in the ludwigia cuba on the right. Each will pick a spot next to each other for the night. The cuba also creates a nice calm area where I can feed them as well. The girls also seem to like the flow from the filter and will ride the stream.

...apologies for the ugly blue paper background...trying to remedy that- any suggestions?

:-D cheers


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## cdouglas93

I have a ten gallon with seven girls and was wondering what the amount of food I should feed them exactly? I've been guessing at this point.


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## fishy314

NapoleonUWS said:


> Great information on sororities here!
> 
> Late to the party here... been really busy with work and didn't have time to post about my sorority -
> 
> Started my sorority last fall with 4 gals (I know 5 is recommended) and things are still going great! All four gals are relatively the same age (size) and I have had little or no fights or nipping (fingers crossed!).
> In fact, two of the gals are quite chummy and stay together all the time (strange?)... they are not nippy with the two lone girls and only occasionally give them a chase... the single gals just get out of the way... they all eat together and there have been no issues...
> 
> I've also noticed that the girls seem to have bigger appetites than all the boys I've had in the past. Is that just me dreaming that up?
> 
> My tank is heavily planted with lots of hiding places, floating plants, etc...
> Seems to be working! Am I just lucky?
> 
> I have to say, I've only had male bettas in the past, but I LOVE having all the girls in a tank together... feels more like a family! Colors, MORE BETTAS!
> Will post pics later...
> 
> NapoleonUWS


That's great! When you said 4gals I thought you had a 4 gallon tank and I was like whaaaaaaa O.O


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## carbonxxkidd

cdouglas93 said:


> I have a ten gallon with seven girls and was wondering what the amount of food I should feed them exactly? I've been guessing at this point.



I just feed until all the girls have a little bulge to their tummies, to make sure they all get something. Unfortunately I have a few pigs that eat more than everyone else, but so far they are just fat (not bloated) so it's working for me.


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## AyalaCookiejar

I am so excited to set up my sorority! Ahhh! Love this thread  reading about others with successful sororities is really encouraging (and exciting!)


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## LissaLooHoo

*Hexagon or bowfront?*

Hello! My tank now has been greatly set up now for about 5 months! The fish are healthy and happy, and I've recently added a sailfin tiger pleco, and it has become best friends with one of my bettas, Maralynn. I'm now looking to expand my 20 gallon regular dimensioned tank to a 36 hexagonal tank, what do you all think of this? I wanted to expand my betta family, and give them a nice bigger home. I am also conflicting however, with a bowfront hexagonal, and was wondering what you all suggested. Will the tallness of the hexagon be a hindrance at all? They LOVE the top, and way bottom of their tank now, and are constantly playing, and sleeping in the silk plants. So I thought a little upgrade was in store to give them more room. Thanks for the suggestions!!


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## LissaLooHoo

Also, what do you guys suggest for algae growth? I have been having issues with it lately.


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## logisticsguy

Try cutting down on the number of hours your lights are on.


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## Hyper27

I have an old 29 gallon that has been sitting off to the side for a while, and I was thinking of starting a Female Betta Sorority tank. How many females could i add in this (I want a betta only tank)? Additionally would it be possible to add just one male betta in to the mix?
Thanks, Hyper27


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## logisticsguy

You could likely put 7-10 females in a 29g no problem with lots of plants. You could not mix in a male to the sorority.


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## cdouglas93

Well I have had my sorority tank set up for about a little over 2 weeks now and all seven girls are doing great. They are major piggies when it comes to meal time and so far I've had no issues beyond a tiff here and there between the smaller girls. Gotta say I couldn't be happier with my sorority.


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## Hyper27

logisticsguy said:


> You could likely put 7-10 females in a 29g no problem with lots of plants. You could not mix in a male to the sorority.


By plants do you mean live plants? Additionally should I also have a lot of hiding places for the bettas? Lastly, I had the thought about the male since someone told me as long as the female to male ratio is big, everything will be fine. Is that untrue?


----------



## logisticsguy

Hyper27 said:


> By plants do you mean live plants? Additionally should I also have a lot of hiding places for the bettas? Lastly, I had the thought about the male since someone told me as long as the female to male ratio is big, everything will be fine. Is that untrue?


Yes live plants and lots of them. They help break up visual sight lines as well as all the other good things live plants do. Many hides as possible, terra cotta pots, caves anything that can give some privacy from each other. Imo you would be asking for trouble adding a male. It is hard to keep a sorority at relative peace even with only girls. They are fighting fish by nature and when a male is present you bring in the breeding element. This can be a vicious element and Ive seen damage from even well conditioned pairs while breeding. I am not saying it is impossible OFL has done it, but it takes a very long time to establish something like this and experience that goes beyond what average keepers like me would want to attempt. It is certainly not as simple as having a high female to male ratio. I wouldnt try it myself as its hard enough to keep even females together for my own sanity. I believe OFL has a good post regarding this subject on this forum.


----------



## Hyper27

logisticsguy said:


> Yes live plants and lots of them. They help break up visual sight lines as well as all the other good things live plants do. Many hides as possible, terra cotta pots, caves anything that can give some privacy from each other. Imo you would be asking for trouble adding a male. It is hard to keep a sorority at relative peace even with only girls. They are fighting fish by nature and when a male is present you bring in the breeding element. This can be a vicious element and Ive seen damage from even well conditioned pairs while breeding. I am not saying it is impossible OFL has done it, but it takes a very long time to establish something like this and experience that goes beyond what average keepers like me would want to attempt. It is certainly not as simple as having a high female to male ratio. I wouldnt try it myself as its hard enough to keep even females together for my own sanity. I believe OFL has a good post regarding this subject on this forum.


I got you. So I'll only keep females with a lot of live plants, caves, etc. Additionally, what type of filter would be good for these fish? I have a 50 gallon power filter from aquaclear... will that do fine? I also wanted to know where the best place to buy bettas is.


----------



## logisticsguy

Hyper27 said:


> I got you. So I'll only keep females with a lot of live plants, caves, etc. Additionally, what type of filter would be good for these fish? I have a 50 gallon power filter from aquaclear... will that do fine? I also wanted to know where the best place to buy bettas is.


My sorority tank has an aquaclear like yours. I also add a sponge pre filter to the end of the intake, Fluval makes a good one. Its like a good filter all by itself and loads up with bb quick, take tons of muck out before it even hits the aquaclear. In addition I have a sponge filter at each end of the tank. I highly recommend them. So its like having 4 filters to back each other up. Plus the plants. Very stable cycle once its established. May be overkill but this works for me. As far as the best place to buy a betta its not the local pet shop most likely. There are some terrific breeders on this forum who may be local or ship to you.


----------



## Hyper27

logisticsguy said:


> My sorority tank has an aquaclear like yours. I also add a sponge pre filter to the end of the intake, Fluval makes a good one. Its like a good filter all by itself and loads up with bb quick, take tons of muck out before it even hits the aquaclear. In addition I have a sponge filter at each end of the tank. I highly recommend them. So its like having 4 filters to back each other up. Plus the plants. Very stable cycle once its established. May be overkill but this works for me. As far as the best place to buy a betta its not the local pet shop most likely. There are some terrific breeders on this forum who may be local or ship to you.


Alright thanks! I think I will try my local store soon. So I will plan to have around 10, but not all at once. How many should I add at one time? I was thinking around 6-7 in the beginning. But I also read somewhere that if you are adding new females, you have to take the current ones out and change the placings of the ornaments/plants so they can re-establish pecking order. Is this true?


----------



## logisticsguy

Hyper27 said:


> Alright thanks! I think I will try my local store soon. So I will plan to have around 10, but not all at once. How many should I add at one time? I was thinking around 6-7 in the beginning. But I also read somewhere that if you are adding new females, you have to take the current ones out and change the placings of the ornaments/plants so they can re-establish pecking order. Is this true?


You could start out with 6 girls, I like to add 2 at a time for some reason it goes over better. The 1st 2 weeks your tank could have some negative energy as the girls sort out the order. You may even need to pull one or 2 that are just too mean for sorority life and get them their own apartment. You can try them again later often they settle down with time. I leave the girls in, do a 50% water change, change the decor and plants around, add new girls then refill tank.


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## AyalaCookiejar

Make sure you QT them first... Especially if they are coming from the pet store..


----------



## Hyper27

logisticsguy said:


> You could start out with 6 girls, I like to add 2 at a time for some reason it goes over better. The 1st 2 weeks your tank could have some negative energy as the girls sort out the order. You may even need to pull one or 2 that are just too mean for sorority life and get them their own apartment. You can try them again later often they settle down with time. I leave the girls in, do a 50% water change, change the decor and plants around, add new girls then refill tank.


So for the separation part, would those clear containers that separate them work, or would i need a full separator? Additionally, when adding the new fish, do the existing betas treat every beta as new ones and re-establish pecking order?


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## Hyper27

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Make sure you QT them first... Especially if they are coming from the pet store..


If I add by 2's though, wont it be a problem as 1 would assert dominance? Would I have to keep them in separate tanks? Additionally, how big must the other tanks be as the only other places i have to keep fish are a 2.5 gallon Fish bowl and a small blue fish container...


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## logisticsguy

Hyper27 said:


> So for the separation part, would those clear containers that separate them work, or would i need a full separator? Additionally, when adding the new fish, do the existing betas treat every beta as new ones and re-establish pecking order?


I keep an extra tank around so that s what I use. You may have to keep a girl or 2 permanently separated so best to be prepared and it never hurts to have an extra 5g tank around as you may need it as a hospital tank as well at some point. You can also try floating her in a clear cup in the aquarium for a short period. With any luck you wont need to worry about it. If sorority life isnt working out for her my time outs are 7-14 days. The new ones usually start at the bottom but every betta is different, ive seen new small ones chasing the big girls like crazy, most times it is just a little get outta here push which is just normal betta behavior.


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## AyalaCookiejar

You need at least 4 to add at the same time initially. More is better, it will spread out aggression.

You need to QT to prevent disease. It's not uncommon for pet store bought fish to be sick from the store and die shortly after. You need to QT for at least two weeks to be sure all girls are healthy. If you introduce all the girls and one is sick, it will get them all sick. Not QTing often causes the whole tank to get sick and die off. You can QT them by floating cups for heat. Some people go to their local delis and get empty 32 ounce (1/4 gallon) cups to float in the tank for QT. That means you will have to do water changes daily in the QT containers. I actually went out to Walmart and bought one gallon canisters. They have lids that you need to put holes in, but they are tall and narrower so I can actually fit six of them in my ten gallon tank. They are about $3 each, though, but QTing is EXTREMELY important to prevent disease! Sororities are delicate and the girls can get sick easily if the tank isn't set up properly and the girls are not QTed and introduced properly. Some people have gotten away without QTing but I DO NOT recommend trying it...

As long as they have been QTed to ensure health, its still important to introduce them at the same time and re-cup them and rearrange decor when new girls are added. You could add like 15 girls to a 29 gallon with no other fish if you wanted... But you need to be sure the tank can handle the bio-load.



I know you are planning on going to the pet store, but I do recommend that you at least consider buying online from a private breeder. Some will give you 6 girls (all siblings, even) for only $30, shipping included. Private breeders generally have healthier, more socialized and younger girls. Usually, if you get all siblings that have never been separated from birth, they don't fight as much because they are already well-socialized and used to each other. The younger, the better. Most pet stores don't sell them very young and they often mis-label the females.


Also, about adding a male... I think its too risky. Have you had male bettas or females before? I can honestly say that females are SO fun and their personalities are amazing. They are often spunkier because their short fins make it easier for them to swim and most of them learn to jump at feeding time, it is very fun and rewarding and also amazing to see how high females can jump! My males have jumped but my females have wings or something, lol.

I'm officially hooked on females. Looks don't beat personality...


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## Hyper27

AyalaCookiejar said:


> You need at least 4 to add at the same time initially. More is better, it will spread out aggression.
> 
> You need to QT to prevent disease. It's not uncommon for pet store bought fish to be sick from the store and die shortly after. You need to QT for at least two weeks to be sure all girls are healthy. If you introduce all the girls and one is sick, it will get them all sick. Not QTing often causes the whole tank to get sick and die off. You can QT them by floating cups for heat. Some people go to their local delis and get empty 32 ounce (1/4 gallon) cups to float in the tank for QT. That means you will have to do water changes daily in the QT containers. I actually went out to Walmart and bought one gallon canisters. They have lids that you need to put holes in, but they are tall and narrower so I can actually fit six of them in my ten gallon tank. They are about $3 each, though, but QTing is EXTREMELY important to prevent disease! Sororities are delicate and the girls can get sick easily if the tank isn't set up properly and the girls are not QTed and introduced properly. Some people have gotten away without QTing but I DO NOT recommend trying it...
> 
> As long as they have been QTed to ensure health, its still important to introduce them at the same time and re-cup them and rearrange decor when new girls are added. You could add like 15 girls to a 29 gallon with no other fish if you wanted... But you need to be sure the tank can handle the bio-load.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are planning on going to the pet store, but I do recommend that you at least consider buying online from a private breeder. Some will give you 6 girls (all siblings, even) for only $30, shipping included. Private breeders generally have healthier, more socialized and younger girls. Usually, if you get all siblings that have never been separated from birth, they don't fight as much because they are already well-socialized and used to each other. The younger, the better. Most pet stores don't sell them very young and they often mis-label the females.
> 
> 
> Also, about adding a male... I think its too risky. Have you had male bettas or females before? I can honestly say that females are SO fun and their personalities are amazing. They are often spunkier because their short fins make it easier for them to swim and most of them learn to jump at feeding time, it is very fun and rewarding and also amazing to see how high females can jump! My males have jumped but my females have wings or something, lol.
> 
> I'm officially hooked on females. Looks don't beat personality...


Thanks for this response! I have a few more questions though...

1)How exactly do you float the cups and what do you have to do? Do they really keep the disease/sickness from spreading? Is it better to have a reserve tank?

2)Do you know any possible sites that are reliable and have good bettas with a good range of colors for a cheap price?

Thanks again!
Hyper27


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## AyalaCookiejar

1) I personally have made a shelf inside my ten gallon tank for my QT tanks. I put coffee cups on the bottom, set plastic mesh on top and put the QT tanks on that. The weight of the water keeps the tanks from tipping. You can also clip the QT cups to the tank side so they don't tip over, but you need lids with small holes in them so they can breathe but they can't jump out. Don't share equipment between the QT cups when quarantining, and make sure the water from the cups don't contaminate other cups, etc... And just watch each girl to make sure they all are healthy looking and active. I use clear cups so they can see each other and get used to each other, but I place plants between the cups so they are not fully exposed... Does that make sense?

2) check the classified section on this forum. I've purchased all my fish from members here. You need a PayPal account. You can search through the classifieds or post asking for females. You can likely get siblings for a cheaper bulk price. I am getting my girls from Chard56 (I know he has an abundance of dragon girls for sale right now)... Siblings are more socialized with each other already as most private breeders keep all their girls in one big sorority tank. QTing is still needed because sometimes shipping may make them sick, but generally, shipping is very safe. QTing is just a precaution... Some people only QT for a week. Most recommend two. If you want to be very cautious, you should QT at least two weeks if not more.

Edit: also, what do you mean by a reserve tank? I personally have a back up four gallon tank in case one of my girls doesn't work out and its probably a good idea, but your chances of getting a girl that's too aggressive for a sorority is smaller if you purchase from a breeder. If you tell them the girls will be in a sorority, they could probably help you pick girls who are less aggressive...


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## Hyper27

AyalaCookiejar said:


> 1) I personally have made a shelf inside my ten gallon tank for my QT tanks. I put coffee cups on the bottom, set plastic mesh on top and put the QT tanks on that. The weight of the water keeps the tanks from tipping. You can also clip the QT cups to the tank side so they don't tip over, but you need lids with small holes in them so they can breathe but they can't jump out. Don't share equipment between the QT cups when quarantining, and make sure the water from the cups don't contaminate other cups, etc... And just watch each girl to make sure they all are healthy looking and active. I use clear cups so they can see each other and get used to each other, but I place plants between the cups so they are not fully exposed... Does that make sense?
> 
> 2) check the classified section on this forum. I've purchased all my fish from members here. You need a PayPal account. You can search through the classifieds or post asking for females. You can likely get siblings for a cheaper bulk price. I am getting my girls from Chard56 (I know he has an abundance of dragon girls for sale right now)... Siblings are more socialized with each other already as most private breeders keep all their girls in one big sorority tank. QTing is still needed because sometimes shipping may make them sick, but generally, shipping is very safe. QTing is just a precaution... Some people only QT for a week. Most recommend two. If you want to be very cautious, you should QT at least two weeks if not more.
> 
> Edit: also, what do you mean by a reserve tank? I personally have a back up four gallon tank in case one of my girls doesn't work out and its probably a good idea, but your chances of getting a girl that's too aggressive for a sorority is smaller if you purchase from a breeder. If you tell them the girls will be in a sorority, they could probably help you pick girls who are less aggressive...


Alright thanks! On the cups i sort of understand, but do you have a video/picture to help me understand better? I really appreciate your time though!
Thanks, 
Hyper27


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## AyalaCookiejar

I could get a picture of the shelf I made or try to draw a picture of how to set the cups up if you just clip them to the side...


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## AyalaCookiejar

These are the canisters from Walmart. I can fit six of these (three across, two up and down) in my ten gallon so you could fit that many in your tank easily. I forget the measurements... I think they are about 10 inches high. If you fill them with water and fill the tank so that the water is a little below the lid, they will sit on the bottom of the tank so you don't need to worry about floating them. You'd need to drill holes in the lids for air, though. This method will work better than clipping cups to the side of the tank or creating a shelf. Honestly, both of those are a pain. The lids screw on so they are secure.


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## nel3

I know that you can't keep a female betta in a divided tank with a male in any other partition. Can someone please remind me the reason why it won't work out as a long term setup? I want to get a female betta but I can't have any extra ATM. I have three single occupant tanks and those are doing very well. I have reason to believe that one betta in the 5g divided has his time limited as he looks healthy but has a growth on his body that is suspicious. I can't switch over any other fish to the 5g when one goes due to diff water param ie ial water.


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## AyalaCookiejar

You could always acclimate them to tanned water... IAL would benefit all of your bettas. Just any new water needs to be Pre-tanned.

Males can't be housed with males for obvious reasons - because they are aggressive to other bettas, females included. Males and females can be housed together only during breeding. Although, if you made the tank divider so that it could not be seen through, I don't know why you could not put a male and a female in a divided tank, unless it has something to do with scent...

In that case, its probably best to get a second opinion  but I think docile fish would do better in a divided tank. I don't know how much gender really has to do with it..


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## nel3

AyalaCookiejar said:


> You could always acclimate them to tanned water... IAL would benefit all of your bettas. Just any new water needs to be Pre-tanned.
> 
> Males can't be housed with males for obvious reasons - because they are aggressive to other bettas, females included. Males and females can be housed together only during breeding. Although, if you made the tank divider so that it could not be seen through, I don't know why you could not put a male and a female in a divided tank, unless it has something to do with scent...
> 
> In that case, its probably best to get a second opinion  but I think docile fish would do better in a divided tank. I don't know how much gender really has to do with it..


its a tab bit complicated for my 3 single occupant tanks. my blue dt (2.5g) is a thia fish so he's probably been in IAL all his life, i dont know if he'll do well if he goes into the filter side of the tank. his fins are also a bit more delicate from what ive observed than my others. my avy only corresponds to his first week i had him. his fins are a mess since then. the other 2 singles (both 3.4gkk) are CT and ive found the perfect water parameters so their fins dont curl in the normally hard water. 

my 5g divided is white plastic crafting mesh and both have a clear veiw of each other. im not too sure how my DeT will react nor a possible female, i do believe scent does play some role in housing. i happen have good luck as far as 5g buddies go for temperment so it could possibly work out. i have a Riccia moss plant, the "eat the roots" plant you find in betta store, i'll be adding another plant in there and i have 1 nerite on the filter/lamp side. i havent had any input how certain plants nor snail shell will suffer in softer ial type tank. 

my other option is to take my cracked but good 3.4gkk (2g usable), buy decor and heater. its not the best option timewise per wc schedule nor do i have a spare location to put it. though it could work as a temporary setup until a single occupant tank opens up with my current fish. i do want a female betta badly but i know my limits on time to spend on fish care :evil:.


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## AyalaCookiejar

Wow? What is your pH? It would have to be pretty low already to worry about the IAL decreasing it further. I believe most plants (or at least beginner plants) prefer pH of 6.5-7.5 but some like it lower and bettas in general prefer low pH. Snails, on the other hand, do better in more alkaline water. I believe it hardens their shells.

I personally have never worried too much about pH and hardness because I prefer to leave it alone instead of messing with it. I still don't know about housing a male and female... But if your Thai fish has long fins, its probably best to keep him away from the filter.


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## nel3

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Wow? What is your pH? It would have to be pretty low already to worry about the IAL decreasing it further. I believe most plants (or at least beginner plants) prefer pH of 6.5-7.5 but some like it lower and bettas in general prefer low pH. Snails, on the other hand, do better in more alkaline water. I believe it hardens their shells.
> 
> I personally have never worried too much about pH and hardness because I prefer to leave it alone instead of messing with it. I still don't know about housing a male and female... But if your Thai fish has long fins, its probably best to keep him away from the filter.


i have 7.6 straight tap water. its high in sediments, it caked up the humidifier heating coils within 2 weeks of near constant runnng. my cts get 1.6l of 0ppm water to soften it a bit and 600ml ial water (had issues b4 with wandering ph levels bc i didnt control the amount of ial water). the anacharis from 1yr back just bogged down and melted in low ph water and diminished light. funny enough the "root food" plant has been the only plant that didnt die on me. i have a green thumb for terestrial pants but a brown one for aquatic ones .

the vt also has long fins and constantly gets torn up every few weeks (or months) but its a bit better lately. i rarely use aq salt for him for fear it'll damage the organs, he'll blow his tail easily. it even happened without a filter in the tank. he blows it and "trims" it down. when its growing back, he resets the damage :evil:.

i searched more on the M-F divided threads here and OFL and other senior members said either inaccesiblity and/or obscurity will turn out just fine gievn the 2 temperments. it does give me hope as both DeT and VT are mellow, more like the VT goes crazy for a few days then ignores. Osiris (past 5g occupant)and Halloween (current 5g occupant) dont care if theres another betta on the other side.


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## LittleBettaFish

You can house a male/female in a divided tank. I used to do it all the time. 

Never ran into any issues and if a divider failed usually the worst that would happen was I would find a few nips taken out of the female's tail.

There is some initial flirting at first, but this usually dies down once they both settle in and realise they can't get to each other.


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## nel3

LittleBettaFish said:


> You can house a male/female in a divided tank. I used to do it all the time.
> 
> Never ran into any issues and if a divider failed usually the worst that would happen was I would find a few nips taken out of the female's tail.
> 
> There is some initial flirting at first, but this usually dies down once they both settle in and realise they can't get to each other.


ty very much for reassuring me. my divider is solid. to put it more accurately, my fish never tried anything funny yet. its siliconed to the sides and a 4 inch (2inch each side) overhang incase one decides to jump. if my VT has waht i think he does, then its going to be a few months to a year. that aside i now know i can get a female betta some housing to replace which ever current fish goes.


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## Sagat

It's official, thanks to this thread, I'm now the proud owner of a sorority of dragons that I got from Chard56.

Here's a quick video of them in their QT tank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWx3_m9DUys&feature=youtu.be

Now that I have my own sorority, what's the best way to make sure that they all get their fair share of food? I've been hand feeding each of them, to make sure they get relatively the same amount of food, but I think I'm creating a dominance situation by getting all together at feeding time, since one of my snow dragons starts getting a little aggressive and chases her sisters away. Also, should I be feeding them all in separate areas of the tank to help reduce this?


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## Bombalurina

I'm getting my new sorority from Jodi-Lea this week and I'm very excited.  However, in the past I've always bought locally from petshops and they've put all the girls in one bag, and I've just done normal acclimatisation. 

Since these ladies are being shipped from Queensland (1200km by road), should I use drip acclimatisation? How can I do that for 6 girls?


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## LittleBettaFish

Bombalurina, I will make a confession and say I have never acclimatised any of the fish I get delivered from Jodi-Lea (naughty I know). Not even my wild-caught wild bettas. 

I just float their bags for ten or so minutes and then dump them in. 

Never lost a single fish from doing it this way. 

I think it's also a lot further from QLD to Melbourne and even during winter they have been fine.


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## Bombalurina

Thanks, LBF, that's a weight off my mind.  Payment has been transferred and they will be shipped tomorrow! I will post lots of photos.


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## ashleigheperry

Do any of you have recommendations on where to purchase sororities in the US? I'd like to get them all from the same place if possible. Wonderful groups, everyone!


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## Sagat

I trolled the classifieds forum here and on Aquabid for a long time. We've got lots of really awesome breeders here and if you're patient, you'll eventually find what you want.


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## AyalaCookiejar

If you look at Sagats last post, those females are dragons from Chard56 on here. I know he sells females in bulk for cheap prices, discounts for forum members (I'm not really sure if I should be posting that in this section - sorry.)

I have ordered females from him and Mo, but Mo isn't breeding again until summer I believe. There are many breeders in the classified sections but some will give you better bulk prices than others depending on stock. Chard has a lot of dragon girls now that I believe he's trying to get rid of, but he also told me he has like 400ish females in 4 different sororities.


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## AyalaCookiejar

Okay, so after 3 and a half months of planning, my sorority is FINALLY SET UP AS OF YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please excuse my shouting an excessive exclamation marks - I am very excited, if you could not tell.

At first there was some chasing and fin nipping and quite a bit of flaring but it all calmed down after a couple of hours. It seems they have it figured out. However, Mercy, my purple female, has stress stripes that keep appearing and disappearing (and she also has a small piece missing out of her tail from shipping), and Lotus, my pink EE, has a split in her anal fin. It's a straight split, though, so I'm hoping it will heal quickly on it's own. There is vitachem in their tank which will help it heal and will boost their immune systems, too.

So anyways, here's a really bad video  I'm trying to upload pictures to my album but they are huge because I took them off my camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM9mJ94vwws

 Enjoy!


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## MattsBettas

I love your girls! Very nice tank and very nice stocking. Watch them carefully for the first two weeks!


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## AyalaCookiejar

I hope that no more fighting arises. I mean there was a little, of course, but nothing too bad. The only injury I see now is that rip in Lotus's anal fin  it looks like a clean tear that should heal easily.

I'm going to be testing water params daily. There is a filter and live plants and I'm planning on getting some more.

At this point, I can't really tell who the alpha is/will be. I think its probably between Mercy and Ascari and I definitely don't think its Lotus or Stella. But I guess that could change?

I'm not 100% sure what to expect, though. Is it safe to assume for the next two weeks that there still may be some fighting arise and that they're still probably establishing a pecking order?


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## MattsBettas

Two weeks is the usual amount of time it takes for them to establish their pecking order. There will be some ripped fins, maybe a bit of scale damage. IMO it is easiest to see who is dominant at feeding time.


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## AyalaCookiejar

Thanks! Is it possible that there won't be hardly any injuries? At feeding time, it seems like the dragon girls are more dominant. Lotus seems to be clear at the bottom of the chain. I had to make sure I dropped food right in front of her so she could get some, but the rest of the girls had no issues. (I guess that might explain why she has the first ripped fin.) Ascari is definitely the most aggressive.

At first it seemed like a giant fighting ring but it really calmed down quickly. They seem like they are at least pretty good at tolerating each other, especially when they are in close proximity.


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## MattsBettas

It's definatly possible. That's what I experienced though.


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## babybetta

started a sorority a couple days ago went to petsmart forgeting about the betta sale. Decided I want to try a sorority got 4 vail females. took my 20 gallon out of storage washed it all up put deep layer of gravel down. Robed the community of most of its plants. Put in the spare filter I run in the community. 2 small caves and one huge castle and a heater from the horde. ordered even more plants. Had a jumper who got out in the night thought I saved her but she didnt make it. went back to petsmart exchanged her for another vail and got 2 crowntail females and a few neons for verity. Had a bad fight when I let the last one in because the decided they wanted to be top fish. been camped out in a chair infront of the tank for most of the day for 3 day net at the ready if things get bad. mostly seems ok except the goldenrod one has it out for a pale blue who I have decided is named teeny. so far so good tho I think. still have the meds and salt at the ready tho.


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## justmel

I could swear I saw a thread on here once that answered my question (before I thought about bookmarking or anything) and I've been looking for it all day, but can't find it now. I am looking at getting a 29 gal tank for a sorority. How many bettas would be to many for that? I currently have 4 females that can go in a sorority and 3 that should be shipped Tuesday. I am looking at ordering another from Aquabid on Thursday. Is 8 a good amount of females for a 29 gallon? To many or maybe not enough? I know I need enough to spread the aggression out and all that. I just want to make sure I don't put to many bettas in there. Right now there will also be 1 full grown female guppy & several guppy fry, 2 cory cats, and a few snails.


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## AyalaCookiejar

You should be fine with 15 in a 29 or maybe a few more. Depends on how you wish to stock the tank... They would have about 2 gallons per girl. I've got six in my ten with a cycled filter and live plants and its doing fine handling the bio-load.

Of course you want at least 4, but if recommend at least 5-6. More is better. With no other fish I'm sure you could do 15-17ish in a 29. But people warm against adding them all at once... A few people have said they lost some girls when they added 9 at once.

You'd want to cycle a filter at 4ppm ammonia in a second container and/or have a ton of live plants, especially fast-growing ones, to make sure the cycle won't be shocked by a sudden bio-load. Well socialized girls would be best, especially younger girls, and I would QT them in containers next to each other and see-through so they can get used to each other first without being able to get to each other.

I got my six girls from breeders at a young age and they were already in a big sorority tank (most breeders do that) and I QTed them next to each other. I haven't had a whole lot of fighting or injuries besides minor fin tears in my two smallest girls.

Edit: I don't know the bioload of the ones you mentioned but 8 would work fine. I'm not sure that guppies work well in sororities? I know they shouldn't be housed with males.


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## justmel

Thank you Ayala. I'm going to get some containers like you mentioned here and QT them all right there. I'm going to make the 29 a NPT, so there will be lots of live plants, snails, shrimp, extra. 3 of my ladies are coming from 1 breeder on here & four of them live together now. After the guppies are gone it will be a full betta tank (besides the extra snails and whatnot doing their jobs), so I guess I will be on the look out for some more lovely ladies, but no huge rush. After QT the 7 I will have should get along fine until I can get everything ready & if 7 ends up being to many then one of my ladies will get her own home & I know just the one. My little Freya might be happier by herself anyway.

The guppies are kind of left over. The one full grown one has a spinal deformity that makes her unsaleable. Most of the time she acts like another bettas with the other girls. I've had no problem with them being together and the only ones nipping fins are the bettas. All the little ones are just waiting to grow enough to find new homes.


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## nel3

this wont be a sorority but i would like to know about anything to look out for in my new female PK. long story short, my VT passed from a growth/tumour yesterday and i bought her as a replacement. she'll be going into my 5g divided tank. in the tank already is a DeT orange chocolate male. she'll have a nerite as company on her own side. 

what signs should i look out for when i introduce her to the 5g within 2-4 weeks? i know they'll show off each others goods and try to interact but how long should it last until they calm down? my DeT didnt care much at all when the VT male was on the other side of the divider.

ive sanitized the heater used in the brief time i isolated the VT in his final hours. i didnt leave any heater in the 1g QT but temps remained 23.6 and stable due to room temp. when the heater is safe it'll go in the tank and i'll start raising the temp up.


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## justmel

Got a question for you all. I had to take my sorority apart because one of my ladies ended up being a boy. I got a female to replace him with last night. While I acclimated her & put her in her QT tank she was fine. A little stressed and kept swimming all over the place, but no stress stripes or anything like that. I put her QT tank by the other girls so they could get used to the site of each other & that changed. She lost all her color and very prominent stress stripes showed. All the sudden she clamped up a little and seemed to try and make herself as small as possible. She's twice the size of my other ladies, but it was obvious the site of them really upset her, so I blocked her view of them & when she didn't start relaxing I blocked her view of everything else overnight. This morning the stress stripes are gone, she's swimming like normal, no more clamped fins or anything. When she see's the girl it's the same reaction, so I've isolated her again. Am I handling this correctly or is it better to leave her where she can see the other ladies. She's in QT for 2 weeks and the sorority won't be going back up until then at the earliest, so I can take it slow if she just needs some special attention and time to relax.

What I know of this females past is this - some lady had 5 bettas and for some reason had to get rid of them, so she gave them to the pet store to sell. Being as she gave them 5 bettas at once and said they were all female I think she tried a failed sorority. When I bought the boy from the tank all the females were hiding behind the filter and absolutely colorless. So she's been rather stressed lately anyway.


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## AyalaCookiejar

justmel said:


> Got a question for you all. I had to take my sorority apart because one of my ladies ended up being a boy. I got a female to replace him with last night. While I acclimated her & put her in her QT tank she was fine. A little stressed and kept swimming all over the place, but no stress stripes or anything like that. I put her QT tank by the other girls so they could get used to the site of each other & that changed. She lost all her color and very prominent stress stripes showed. All the sudden she clamped up a little and seemed to try and make herself as small as possible. She's twice the size of my other ladies, but it was obvious the site of them really upset her, so I blocked her view of them & when she didn't start relaxing I blocked her view of everything else overnight. This morning the stress stripes are gone, she's swimming like normal, no more clamped fins or anything. When she see's the girl it's the same reaction, so I've isolated her again. Am I handling this correctly or is it better to leave her where she can see the other ladies. She's in QT for 2 weeks and the sorority won't be going back up until then at the earliest, so I can take it slow if she just needs some special attention and time to relax.
> 
> What I know of this females past is this - some lady had 5 bettas and for some reason had to get rid of them, so she gave them to the pet store to sell. Being as she gave them 5 bettas at once and said they were all female I think she tried a failed sorority. When I bought the boy from the tank all the females were hiding behind the filter and absolutely colorless. So she's been rather stressed lately anyway.


One thing that I did for my girls during QT was I put plants in each QT tank as well as some plants between the QT tank so they could see each other, but they didn't see each other 100% of the time. I had some issues in the beginning with flaring but I never saw stress striped in the QT tanks. If she is a pet store female and has never been socialized well, she may not ever be cut out for sorority life. I don't think that keeping her completely out of sight from the other girls will help at all, but if she continues the behavior she's got now, it might be a good idea to get a different female.

Sometimes its a hit-or-miss situation when choosing females, especially pet store females. Its important to either have a back up tank for any female go doesn't work out or a plan to rehome her or return her to the store.


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## justmel

Thank you Ayala. I know this female was kept with at least 4 other bettas in the past. 1 of which was a male (I bought that one as a female and found out it wasn't when I put him in the sorority). Luckily with 17 bettas I have a lot of options for homes for her. She is calming down enough that I was able to open a small area on her QT tank so she could see what's going on around her. Today she was getting stripes every time I even looked at her. I think she might just be extra stressed right now & need some time. I can give her that time, but rest assured, if she doesn't fit community life she will get her own space. I already have 1 female that doesn't fit in a sorority, so I can just get a divider for her 5 gallon tank.


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## Warhawk

I am setting up a sorority tank this weekend and I have been reading up for the last few weeks. Here is my plan 20 gallon tank, Filter is a simple sponge and sand as a substrate, 3 large plants and 7 caves. I'm thinking 7-8 females would be find.

My questions are do I need a cave for every female? 
How many females can I get in a 20g tank? 
I have a 20L I was thinking about putting dividers in for males but maybe I should move the sorority over to that tank.

I'm reading this full thread but it is taking a while a lot of info.


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## LittleBettaFish

I honestly don't like using caves for sororities. Firstly I've noticed a majority of my bettas rarely use them. When I had a sorority the females spent more time in the upper levels of the tank than they did the bottom. 

Also, with caves that have only one entrance, there's nothing to stop a female from following another one in there and starting a fight. This is why I prefer the use of plants (whether live or fake) as cover, as they provide an actual physical obstruction. 

Opinions on how many females to have in a sorority vary. I am someone who overstocks sororities as I feel it allows for a more even dispersal of aggression. I would say you could have up to 20 females in a 20 gallon tank. However, if this is your first sorority I think 10 would be a good number to aim for. 

Here is a thread I posted on sororities. It provides some additional information. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=123796

I just want to say that it is very important you quarantine all your females separately for at least a couple of weeks. Disease is a big killer of sororities and even visibly 'healthy' females can be sick. 

Also, is your tank cycled or are you going to be putting your females into an uncycled tank? Maintaining water quality is crucial in sororities. For these fish, living in a group can be stressful enough, without the added stress of deteriorating water quality and the effects of ammonia/nitrite poisoning.


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## Warhawk

Sorry should have said yes the tank is cycled I'm moving a filter over from my other tank that has been cycled for months. I have been keeping fish for a while now and I have a few tanks set up and running. 

I didn't think about the one entrance to the cave issue. I'm using coconuts so I could cut another hole in them giving another way out. But I like live plants better just grow slow. I'm planning on buying all the bettas at one time from the same location so I didn't think quarantine would be needed but if need be that isn't a problem just adds some time to my set up. 

Thanks for the info


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## LittleBettaFish

Yeah I wasn't sure how experienced you were with fishkeeping. 

Sororities seem to be a lot more fragile than the typical community tank. Go through some threads here and you'll see how quickly they can be wiped out. Even if they are coming from the same source I'd still quarantine just to be on the safe side.


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## Warhawk

I understand it's better to ask and be sure. 

Only problem with quarantining that many is tank space. I have enough to do 6 at a time so might need to space it out a little while longer. Problem is the tanks won't be very big for each. 

I will keep reading stuff here to get ready. Thanks again for the info


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## LittleBettaFish

Back when I had a sorority I never quarantined. However, I think most people just seem to keep the females in the cups/containers they were purchased in. These are floated in the sorority to keep the water warm with frequent water changes done. 

If you have a spare heater and tank/plastic tub available, you could also do a sort of bain-marie style set-up where the females are put into jars or containers that sit inside of the tank. This keeps them separated, warm and only requires the use of a single tank.


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## Warhawk

LittleBettaFish said:


> Back when I had a sorority I never quarantined. However, I think most people just seem to keep the females in the cups/containers they were purchased in. These are floated in the sorority to keep the water warm with frequent water changes done.
> 
> If you have a spare heater and tank/plastic tub available, you could also do a sort of bain-marie style set-up where the females are put into jars or containers that sit inside of the tank. This keeps them separated, warm and only requires the use of a single tank.


Good idea that would work. I do have a heater thanks


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## BlueLacee

book marking for later use. I want a sorroity


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## thendeathsaid

I'm planning on setting up a sorority in my 12 gal. Sorry if this has been covered already in this thread, but how do I go about introducing them? I'm getting around 6 females; do I put them in all at once or one at a time, or in groups?


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## Bailmint

It says it in the post dear, in the aggression section.


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## thendeathsaid

Ah sorry~ In that case how long do I wait between groups of two or three before adding the next bunch?


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## lilnaugrim

Actually, if you are able it's best to throw them all in at the same time! This way neither of them have territories to fight over right away.


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## thendeathsaid

Ok, thanks, I will try that!


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## BlueLacee

awesome, this should be a sticky


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## lilnaugrim

We're trying to cut down on stickies so just bookmark this if you want to show others, although as stated; I don't agree with the initial addition she had posted up.


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## Pippin

How many females could you fit into a ten gallon with two platies? I may also include a male if that is possible.


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## Bailmint

A male with other bettas and fish in a _10g_? There's no chance that'll work in a 10g. For the females, get about four so they can even out fighting and have their own territories.


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## Pippin

Okay.I own three at the moment(In very tiny tanks, and I also have two platies in another tank.) Would the platies work with three females, should I just get four, or should I put four females with the two platies? I also have some other fish that could go with them instead of platies.


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## Bailmint

I'm not experienced with platies, but I believe they can be put in with bettas, you can try but it all comes down to the betta's overall personality.


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## Pippin

Okay. One is a fin nipper, the other is very territorial, and I think the third is a little bit shy. (Only betta who runs away from my hand.)


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## Bailmint

Get four females, not three. You need to even out aggression and with 3, it'll have a lot less chance of working.


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## Pippin

Okay. Now I just need to explain to my mom exactly why I need another betta.


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## Pippin

She's not too enthusiastic on it.


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## Bailmint

Aw that sucks, did she let you get her or nah? 

^ My attempt at being cool xD


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## lilnaugrim

I could secretly send you a female to add to the collection lol not sure who gets the mail at your house though.


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## Pippin

It was a no. Hopefully I will see a very nice female betta at petco which looks sick, so she'll let me take it home. that's how I got one of my females. and my parents get the mail at my house, but even if I did I wouldn't want a betta to travel all the way up to Alaska from the lower 48.


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## lilnaugrim

Meh, I've shipped plenty of times to Cali and Washington so it's really not a huge deal, I pack them well and it would only be 3 days. But all the still, parents rule and I really shouldn't be advocating kids going against their parents lol. But if they do say yes or something happens, just let me know what kind of female you're looking for and I'll keep my eyes out


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## Pippin

Okay. Thank you!


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## Bailmint

Ooh lil could you secretly send me one sometime? xD Starting a sorority in the fall.

Hehe jk I won't make you do that.


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## lilnaugrim

haha, I don't mind if we've got interesting females that you don't in your area! Just let me know what you're looking for and I'll keep an eye out, you'll have to pay the fish price and the shipping though so it might not be the best deal out of it all lol Shipping is usually around 8 dollars for most areas


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## Pippin

My dad says that if I start a sorority, I can't start it until fall either.


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## lilnaugrim

Because of my experience and reading about others and trying to help them, I really don't advocate sororities anymore unless they are sisters. I have rarely seen sororities work out even under those keepers who are more experienced. Best to keep them separated if you don't want them to die :-/

It's unfortunate but even still in sororities it's a very stressful environment even if it seems like your fish are getting along. Fish communicate in more ways than just physical and half of it we can't see/translate so best to just keep them separated or divided and enjoy them that way.


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## Bailmint

Well I'm going to attempt it, I'll try to get sisters but that's probably going to be the hard part. If something happens and it doesn't work even after trying again, I'll put them in mason jars and get divider stuff to divide up the tank instead, I have LOTS of mesh paper.


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## lilnaugrim

You can contact the breeders on here and have them send you some sisters, I'm not sure who exactly has spawns ready at this point but worth a poke around.


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## Bailmint

Ooh yep, I'll do that. I'll try my best to get the sorority to work though, a heavily planted long 20g with five or six girls. I'll take a look around, yup.


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## Pippin

I think that two of my bettas are sisters(I brought them on the same day and they get along). If i do set up a divided tank, how would I make the dividers or get them so the fish couldn't get through?


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## Bailmint

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/diy-aquarium/diy-aquarium-tank-dividers-21866/


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## Pippin

Thanks for the link. Is there anyway to make sure the plastic is fish safe?


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## Bailmint

Plastic? If you're referring to the stuff in the divider it's 100% safe.


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## Pippin

Okay! I'm a bit paranoid about putting things in fish tanks after my mom put some wild caught snails in our koi tank. No more Koi.


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## Bailmint

Dangg, did you get anymore Koi? But don't worry, it's completely safe.


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## Pippin

We didn't. My dad wants to use it for discus. My dad likes discus.


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## Kupo27

Thanks everyone for the info!  It's been really helpful reading through this thread. I potentially have a 29g tall headed my way and had been toying with the idea of a sorority, but if they have a high fail rate I'm not sure how well I'd take seeing my girlies dying off...


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## Bailmint

Well if you do everything recommended the fail rate drops. Like a bigger tank and 4-6 girls and lots of plants and hiding space drops the fail rate significantly. Also avoiding red females does it too.


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## Kupo27

Red females? Are bettas like bulls and become incensed by the color red?  That'd be an interesting trivia factoid.


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## Bailmint

Nah xD it's just that most females that are red tend to be too dominant.


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## jaysee

Bailmint said:


> Well if you do everything recommended the fail rate drops. Like a bigger tank and 4-6 girls and lots of plants and hiding space drops the fail rate significantly. Also avoiding red females does it too.



It's still pretty high, though I guess that depends on what you consider success and failure to be. I theorize that the fishs life spans are shortened as a result of being kept in such a fashion. So is it a success if the fish lives a year and a half?

It's really amazing. Everywhere else in fish keeping, the goal is to keep stress to a minimum. It's no secret that stress is the catalyst for all sorts of pathogens and conditions, and yet these fish are thrust into a high stress environment. Just seems counterproductive to me, putting fish that enjoy a low stress environment in a high stress one.


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## TheAnimaLover

Great post though


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## Khloe

doggyhog said:


> Great post!!!!!!!!


true that! i have like over 12 tanks to clean every week!


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## aquaticlover31

Hi.... um, I have a 20 gallon Long. I have already 2 pieces of driftwood and planted some stem plants on the back and scattered some crypts and dwarf sag, as well as a tiger lotus.

How many female bettas can I have in a sorority in my tank?


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## MikeG14

+1jaysee

A betta sorority seems like the last thing I want to bring into my home. It's like one of those Real Housewives shows you can never turn off.


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## logisticsguy

Yet my sorority tanks are by far my favorite. Yes in the 1st week there can be some drama but once they get established my sorority tanks have been terrific. As far as shortening the lifespan Ive seen no evidence of that here and one tank has been going for 2+ years. Correctly setting up the tank and properly operating it is key.


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## imaal

+1logisticsguy


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## spaceyJC

Is there more of a chance of a sorority succeeding if the females grew up together? (Like if I bred betta fish and they came out of the same spawn?)


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## imaal

spaceyJC said:


> Is there more of a chance of a sorority succeeding if the females grew up together? (Like if I bred betta fish and they came out of the same spawn?)


Yes.


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## lilnaugrim

Absolutely, that is actually the best kind of sorority as long as you never separate them for any reason. Some of the females will still need to be separated out since some are more aggressive than others but the majority of them will live just fine together if they are siblings. There's way more of a chance of siblings working out than random fish from the store.


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## Kim

I agree with Jaysee and Mike. 

Of course the idea of keeping multiple bettas in the same tank is attractive to a betta lover, and if it really worked out so well, all of us would have one! The fact that this is not the case implies that the detriments outweigh the benefits, at least in some cases. Now, I won't go so far as to criticize someone for keeping a successful sorority, but I also wouldn't recommend one. I won't have one because I keep fish as a hobby, and introducing that much stress and uncertainty into my hobby is not something I personally want to do.


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## spaceyJC

lilnaugrim said:


> Absolutely, that is actually the best kind of sorority as long as you never separate them for any reason. Some of the females will still need to be separated out since some are more aggressive than others but the majority of them will live just fine together if they are siblings. There's way more of a chance of siblings working out than random fish from the store.


Awesome!


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## imaal

Kim said:


> I agree with Jaysee and Mike.
> 
> Of course the idea of keeping multiple bettas in the same tank is attractive to a betta lover, and if it really worked out so well, all of us would have one! The fact that this is not the case implies that the detriments outweigh the benefits, at least in some cases. Now, I won't go so far as to criticize someone for keeping a successful sorority, but I also wouldn't recommend one. I won't have one because I keep fish as a hobby, and introducing that much stress and uncertainty into my hobby is not something I personally want to do.


I certainly understand and respect your position, but to put this in some perspective, my current sorority has been a lot less stressful on me than, say, my experiences with Discus, some South American Cichlids and many Aphyosemion and Fundulopanchax. I would suggest that there are many challeneges in our hobby that require some white-knuckling on the part of the aquarist. And to look at the girls in my sorority--active, robust, engaged and not a nipped fin or 'stress bar' (I loathe that term) to be seen-- I think the last word that would come to mind to describe them is 'stressed.' As in many things in our hobby, it's all in the details.


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## TerriGtoo

MikeG14 said:


> +1jaysee
> 
> A betta sorority seems like the last thing I want to bring into my home. It's like one of those Real Housewives shows you can never turn off.


 
Now THAT is a great comparison. I don't have a sorority and I can't watch those shows either. Either / or would drive me to the nuthouse.


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## Kim

imaal said:


> I certainly understand and respect your position, but to put this in some perspective, my current sorority has been a lot less stressful on me than, say, my experiences with Discus, some South American Cichlids and many Aphyosemion and Fundulopanchax. I would suggest that there are many challeneges in our hobby that require some white-knuckling on the part of the aquarist. And to look at the girls in my sorority--active, robust, engaged and not a nipped fin or 'stress bar' (I loathe that term) to be seen-- I think the last word that would come to mind to describe them is 'stressed.' As in many things in our hobby, it's all in the details.


Thank you for sharing your experiences. I found this very interesting, especially the part about the Discus and other fish. Your sorority sounds wonderful - would you mind elaborating on the details you mentioned? I'm very curious to see exactly what you have done that resulted in your success.


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## imaal

Kim said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences. I found this very interesting, especially the part about the Discus and other fish. Your sorority sounds wonderful - would you mind elaborating on the details you mentioned? I'm very curious to see exactly what you have done that resulted in your success.


Sure, but it's nothing that hasn't been discussed on these pages before, especially in the stickied post "Important steps to a Succsssful Sorority." Dense planting--REALLY dense planting--young fish (mine were about 12 weeks), and high density. I have 16 in my 30 gallon long. Speaking of which, though the minimum tank size of 10 gallons is often recommended I have found the larger the tank, and especially the larger the footprint, the better. In my experience 20 gallon was better than 10, 20 long was better than 20 high, and my current 30 long has been the most successful of all. Next time I'm thinking of converting my 55 to a sorority for about 25-30 girls.


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## MikeG14

I would love to have a sorority and I am somewhat jealous of people who can pull it off. I just find the logistics of finding 10 or so healthy females on the exact same day daunting. I guess that's the main reason I'm not willing to try. 

It also would be a major bummer if I saw one little gal get picked on to death. 

I just wish that these breeders could find a way to breed the aggression out of bettas.

How cool would it be to have a peaceful Co-ed betta tank?


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## lilnaugrim

You can Mike, you can cross bred to wild species like the Imbellis which is already been done and through that line, eventually it is possible to keep them. Fish that have been bred from the same spawn, can generally stay together through their lives if they are tolerant enough. Some will still be aggressive but in the end, with responsible breeding it is possible. But the trick is to keep them together, never separating them to be successful in that part.


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## MikeG14

lilnaugrim said:


> You can Mike, you can cross bred to wild species like the Imbellis which is already been done and through that line, eventually it is possible to keep them.


Just when I thought I was out you pull me back in...

I'm thinking of setting up a community tank, most likely a 30 long. I did the whole neon's, corys, guppies, platies thing when I was a kid... Poorly. I don't want to go back there. 

Imbellis? it's something to look into. Lilnaugrim, you've piqued my interest.


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## hestersu

I really need to ask a question. What is a stress stripe? There are 5 or 6 females in one tank at my local Petco. There are people that decide they don't want their fish and just bring them to Petco in a cup or whatever and leave them on a random shelf in the aquatics area. The 3 aquatics staff are huge fish lovers. Each one is a specialist with their own tanks at home. The store manager allowed them to convert one sales tank to house these drop offs. These 5 or 6 girls are in this tank. One girl has some horizontal stripes on her. Are these stress stripes? She is very anxious while the others are quite docile. 

I wish I had a 30 long I could set up and bring these gals home. I just don't have the space for another tank.


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## BettaMummy87

Sounds like she is stress striped, yes. Like this:


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## imaal

From what you describe, yes, they are what is commonly called stress stripes. IMO an unfortunate and inaccurate term. Discus folks recently had this discussion about what they used to call stress bars or stripes. They now call them mood bars, which is more reflective of the range of conditions that the bars likely represent.


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## BettaMummy87

imaal said:


> From what you describe, yes, they are what is commonly called stress stripes. IMO an unfortunate and inaccurate term. Discus folks recently had this discussion about what they used to call stress bars or stripes. They now call them mood bars, which is more reflective of the range of conditions that the bars likely represent.


Hmm, what others did they come up with that this could be? I have females in my sorority who seem to bar occassionally for little to no apparent reason. 

I have noticed mine do it during the occassional ranking disputes, just for as long as they are dipping to submit, then the bars go. I personally never thought that was true stress, its just a submission, much like a dog rolling over.  Would be interesting to know what else it could be, maybe those unexplained bars could be interpreted! XD


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## hestersu

BettaMummy87 said:


> Sounds like she is stress striped, yes. Like this:


Yep -the bars/stripes look exactly like this. Thank you all for answering my question. Maybe some day I can do a sorority.


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## artemis35

> From what you describe, yes, they are what is commonly called *stress stripes. IMO an unfortunate and inaccurate term.* Discus folks recently had this discussion about what they used to call stress bars or stripes. *They now call them mood bars, which is more reflective of the range of conditions that the bars likely represent*.


imaal-
I also think that this is a fascinating topic. However, I know the moderators here frown on going way off topic in a thread. Is there any chance of you starting a separate, dedicated thread about it? I think it could be really informative.


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## imaal

artemis35 said:


> imaal-
> I also think that this is a fascinating topic. However, I know the moderators here frown on going way off topic in a thread. Is there any chance of you starting a separate, dedicated thread about it? I think it could be really informative.


Sure. Which forum do you think is the most appropriate?


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## artemis35

> Sure. Which forum do you think is the most appropriate?


Since it's a behavior-type topic, I'd say either betta fish care or betta chat. 
Should be a good thread - thanks!


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## NTexasBetta14

I was looking all over for this information! I was looking to start a sorority myself to save space since I have quite a few females and need to conserve space.


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## Deadflwr

I've had really good success introducing females over time. I have clear fry containers that I keep any new females in for about two weeks. Then I add them to the tank. My girls are used to seeing the newcomer and tend to ignore them.
The fry container have slits on the side so water is able to circulate. Makes it really nice.
The only warning I would give: make sure to place something on top of the container. The girls love to jump.


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## BettaMummy87

Deadflwr said:


> I've had really good success introducing females over time. I have clear fry containers that I keep any new females in for about two weeks. Then I add them to the tank. My girls are used to seeing the newcomer and tend to ignore them.
> The fry container have slits on the side so water is able to circulate. Makes it really nice.
> The only warning I would give: make sure to place something on top of the container. The girls love to jump.


This is similar to what I do!  I don't always wait two weeks, just til everything seems stable and then release on a day that I am home to monitor them. Works a charm. Mine have been bought in pairs over about 4 months and added this way. May yet add one or two more.


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## lilnaugrim

The 2 week thing isn't just so they can get used to each other but also for a quarantine period since not all diseases and illnesses show up right away. It is very important that you adhere (everyone, not just you BettaMummy) to the minimum of 2 weeks in QT but preferably 4 weeks since you don't want to kill off your sorority with Columnaris or anything opportunistic!!


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## BettaMummy87

lilnaugrim said:


> The 2 week thing isn't just so they can get used to each other but also for a quarantine period since not all diseases and illnesses show up right away. It is very important that you adhere (everyone, not just you BettaMummy) to the minimum of 2 weeks in QT but preferably 4 weeks since you don't want to kill off your sorority with Columnaris or anything opportunistic!!


Lol, no. I QT then they do a community acclimation stint in the floating box.


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## lilnaugrim

Ah okay, see I QT and acclimate at the same time which is where my confusion came in there


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## BettaMummy87

I dont have a decent qt container I can float in-tank yet, otherwise I would.


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## lilnaugrim

I just use their cups they come in (though I know some stores just bag them) and I use twisty ties hooked over one edge of the cup and then over the rim of the tank to keep them mostly stationary. If the tank has a rim you can tuck the twisty tie under the rim to keep it there.


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## BettaMummy87

lilnaugrim said:


> I just use their cups they come in (though I know some stores just bag them) and I use twisty ties hooked over one edge of the cup and then over the rim of the tank to keep them mostly stationary. If the tank has a rim you can tuck the twisty tie under the rim to keep it there.



In the UK they come in bags, as they are kept in tanks in the shops. No cups, which is a good thing on the whole, reading about how few stores in the US seem to maintain the water. I may just try and sealant a breeding box, so it is gapless and still floats.  Good idea though, something to think on for sure.  Saves two weeks of restricted space for the fishy.


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## lilnaugrim

You can use food storage containers too, most are frosted but you might find some that are more clear that you can use.


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## BettaMummy87

Yeah, I only had frosted, so decided against that. I do have an open tube of sealant though, as I am sorting my spawning/growout tank. So now I have a use for the leftover sealant. Only have three days then thats like, half a tube wasted D:


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## Deadflwr

BettaMummy87 said:


> This is similar to what I do!  I don't always wait two weeks, just til everything seems stable and then release on a day that I am home to monitor them. Works a charm. Mine have been bought in pairs over about 4 months and added this way. May yet add one or two more.


I buy mine in pairs as well. Unless i cant find one i want. Yeah sometimes its sooner sometimes later that I release them. It does all depend.
I'm glad I wait because I bought two females. They were in the same tank and seemed to get along. So they were going to finish out my collection. I got them home placed them in their containers. Well during the week one had a bubble nest in her little container. It was a male plaket. The thing I noticed was my girls were all a little beat up except one female. So him being in the tank (even though he was separate from them) caused some squabbles.


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## BettaMummy87

Deadflwr said:


> I buy mine in pairs as well. Unless i cant find one i want. Yeah sometimes its sooner sometimes later that I release them. It does all depend.
> I'm glad I wait because I bought two females. They were in the same tank and seemed to get along. So they were going to finish out my collection. I got them home placed them in their containers. Well during the week one had a bubble nest in her little container. It was a male plaket. The thing I noticed was my girls were all a little beat up except one female. So him being in the tank (even though he was separate from them) caused some squabbles.



There are always males that will catch us out! I've been got once... possibly twice but I am doubting it. I am thinking of taking my DT 'female' out and seeing what heppens. But as I have had her for a few months now, most of that in the 'sorority' with my weirdo male HM who wont live without the girls, I expect she is a her. Yoshio hates males. Thats how I found out my male PK was a male PK 

Plakats are at an advantage over other males. Less finnage = better swimming. They can keep up with the girlies. Could be that that one female is not ready to breed. I find that Yoshio completely ignores certain females, but it is linked to who looks eggy or not. He'll swim right past a non-eggy female without a care, but always shows off for the others. 

(I know, I have a male in my sorority, but trust me I have tried several times to remove him, but him and the females all get weirdly depressed when I do. :S)


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## MikeG14

Imbellis, the peaceful betta. That's what is says in a book I have. 

Would an imbellis sorority have a better chance at being successful since they don't have the same aggression level as splendens do? Or is a stupid idea? Like a sorority full of female goldfish. Should I just add male & female imbellis together and stop bothering everybody with my nonsense. 

I don't want a bunch of fry. That's why I'm attracted to the idea of a sorority.

I'm just really ascared of putting a bunch of cute lil' female bettas in a tank and it turning into a blood bath.


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## Tress

I think I might eventually try a sorority in a 20g I hope to get. Maybe next year during the summer, we'll see. I would get girls from a breeder, but my main issue with that is I don't want them all looking alike/too similar. Lol just makes it hard to keep track of who is who. I was thinking of looking for someone spawning marbles or dragons to get a nice variety, plus I love both. Wouldn't be picky on tail types though, other than doubles, but I do like CT females :3

Forgive my babbling. I'm just day dreaming


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