# They can't seem to figure it out! Help!



## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

First, a little about me. I have breed several types of fish. Bettas are my favorite. I have breed bettas for years, and thanks to OFL, Learned to think more about the natural behavior of the animal to become more successful at this "hobby". Well, I have come upon a problem that I'm not sure how to get around.

I bought some half giants from Thailand. They are beautiful, especially the male! a Pk HM copper! approx 4 months old. I have also two females, one for color, the other for better fins. 

Conditioned, all. Have had the male and one of the females in the breed tank for almost a week now. She has the bars and very eggy. He is a gentle but vigoous chaser! He has split her tail, but all in all has not injured her in the least. I used a split Mcdonalds styro cup for him to nest, and he has it filled! Trouble is, I do not think they know what to do! lol She will occasionally hid under the leaves. He will lay with her! They rest for a while, then chase chase chase! They accidently damage the nest, and occasionally, he will repair it. If she joins him under the nest, all he does is dance, then chase.

I have shown them the other female, no use. I have shown them another male, which is a normal male, and I think the poor thing was gonna have a heart attack! still no change. I do not have an experienced female at the moment. Any suggestions on how to get this thing going? The female is starting to blow her own bubles and I'm afraid she will end up expelling her eggs before the spawn. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. 

(they are acting more like bonding angels than bettsa! lol)


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Must be virgins.. they can be a pain sometimes to say the least lol.

How much space do they have to swim around in? 
How did you condition them?


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Yes, I do believe they are virgins. I conditioned them with a variety of foods including live, warmer temps, longer days ( turning lights on early, off late) and letting them see each other for short times every day, but not in sight continuously. Usually I do not have an issue with failed spawns. This one has me stumped. The other female is extremely eggy, but somehow got injured during shipment. Was not the fault of shipper. Just one of those crazy things that we can't figure out. She tore a chunk (down to the meat!) out of hert ail and broke her pectoral fin. She is healing nicely, but the option of switching females isn't an option because I want to make sure she is completely healed. She is healing nicely, but no sense forcing it. If it weren't for that, I would tempt trying the other female, and maybe she could figure it out. The other female I have is a normal size female and she isn't experienced anyway. They seem to WANT to spawn, just don't know what to do.lol


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

oh yeah, size of tank. I partitioned half of a 40 gallon. This way, no transfer of the fry. If some of these will be giants, or half giants, I want plenty of room so as not to stunt their growth, nor want to risk losing some in a transfer. I only filled it with approx 8-10 inches deep of water.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IME 4 month olds may seem anxious to breed but often not mature enough to get it done right. As long as they are still in breeding mode and the female isn't getting beaten up too badly, give them time - as long as it takes. 

If you have the patience, separate them for now and let them age a month or two. Then retry them.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Ok. I have successfully breed both males and females as young as three months. But I always use one experienced betta with the "virgin". As long as the female has eggs, and the male is nest building, usually they will breed. I have never tried two virgins. He has at least started going back to the nest after a short chase. She will even go under the nest at times, but he never even attempts to wrap. Just flirts. I may leave them a while as they aren't hurting each other in the least. If they don't figure it out in another day or two, Ill just have to pull them. Thanks!


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Great things take time.  If the pair isn't working out and the damage on them is getting worrisome, I'd pull them, let them heal, recondition, and try again.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Well they are trying to wrap! lol She finally just started sitting crossways right at his ventrals, and they started wrapping. They are trying hard to figure this thing out! now she is just sitting next to him, but too high in the water, and he has a hard time embracing her. They have only wrapped twice so far and no one collected the eggs. I have faith that they will get it!

Inareverie85, Yes, great things to come! He is a beautiful boy, even if he isn't the brightest.lol Their is almost no damage to speak of! He is a gentle lover.lol She only has two splitts in her tail, and I'm not so sure that wasn't caused from her swimming under the leaves. It will be interesting to see if he turns on her after the spawn because he hasn't been acting like a typical male. They even lay together! NO JOKE! I've spawned alot of bettas, and have never wittnessed behavior like this for a pair. Lets hope we get some out of this, and I will start a spawn log! Either way, they are both beautiful and I love them to death. It has been so much fun watching them!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I have males and females that do the same thing.. lay together in the plants, etc. It's fun to see lol. I have a few males gentle like that.. but they never end up impressing the females though >.<

Good luck! I hope they figure it out before she drops/absorbs all her eggs! If not, they have a better chance at it next time!


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Really? This is the first I've seen this type behavior. Usually they are aggressive, or just ignore the female.(I mean what I have wittnessed) She seems to really like him. Probably helped that she was so very eggy! She was starting to blow her own bubbles, and I was afraid of exactly what you brought up, that she would expell her eggs. First several times they wrapped, they either didn't get it, or he would stun himself! lol poor fella. She was sitting too high in the water for him to grab her. They are doing better now, except I've only seen the female gather eggs, and really can't see if she is eating them, or putting them in the nest. Hopefully, he will see her and follow. I'm afraid to get to close because I don't want to disturb them. On the other hand, I have a platinum male and a royal female, normal size, that are spawning right next to me. I'm sitting a cup of coffee next to the tank and everything, and they are not missing a beat.lol Hoping to get some greens from that spawn. I'm not real impressed with the female of that spawn, but she was ready. (just put them together yesterday. She jumped from her container within an hour!

Hopefully the giant pair will become experienced from this, and can do better next time. There always has to be a first! I do so love this copper male! He is by far the most beautiful fish I have ever owned!


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

We have eggs! Female back in her tank and Dad is vigilant in blowing bubbles and searching for more eggs!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Woohoo! Congrats!

I haven't been successful with my virgin girls - either will literally try to kill the male, or will drop eggs away from the male.. just placed a new virgin girl in a bowl today with a virgin boy. Hoping to have the same luck as you hehe!


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

This is the first time I've tried two virgins. I am actually surprised that it worked. I thought I'd introduce them, but that it would end with no success. When they seemed interested in each other, I thought "maybe" but they took a bit to figure it out.lol The only advice I can give is make sure the female is very eggy! And I guess just be patient.lol 

It is funny watching the Dad now. He even flares at me when I get down and try to look up into the nest. I cut a Mcdonalds Styrofoam cup in half, and he did build his nest in it. And man what a nest.lol It is coming out the end, and almost fills it to the top! The only real way I know he has eggs is because I saw him collecting them and spitting them in the nest.

Good luck with your spawn!! Let us know how it is going! As soon as mine are free swimming I will start a log. I actually have two spawns that happened today! I was thinking if the giants didn't collect, I was going to try to sneak them into the other spawn nest. Luckily, they figured it out and collected them!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Two fish that have never spawned before are hilarious to watch the first time they spawn. Half the time the males either stun themselves or have no idea what to do when the female is floating around stunned. Then after they do some odd half-wrap they eagerly go looking for eggs at the bottom of the tank. 

It's good when you have two old hands at spawning and they are like 'Wham, bam, thank you ma'am'. 

Congrats on the spawn. Hopefully you have yourself a good first-time dad.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Congrats. Hope the male cares for them til they hatch.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

We have Hundreds of fry! Daddy is running himself ragged trying to keep up.lol He is such a wonderful Daddy. Going right now to start the spawn log if anyone wants to follow.

Oh Yeah, Myates, How are your virgins coming along?


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

That is great! Patience is a virtue with these fish.


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