# Oak leaves vs Indian almond leaves



## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

I cannot find any indian almond leaves here where I live, however, I have heard from people though I do not know if it is true that Oak leaves have the same effect.

Does it?

Because I just walked all over my city in search for them just to discovered that they are some on campus grounds LOL. (Imma snatch some ninja style.)

Well it would be great if it has the same functions because honestly importing IAL here is a pain. 

If oak leaves work, do I pick up the dry ones or the green ones and sun dry them myself? It just rained so they are all wet i bet XD better though I don't want to find surprise creepy crawlies on them lol XD


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

IAL tends to be something you have to buy online, rare for people to find it at local stores. Ebay and Aquabid are good places to go.. I just purchased a 100 12" ones for $25 from a seller in Thailand. 

I do use oak leaves periodically though as they are free and abundant in my yard-
they are good, but not as good as IAL. Some of the same properties, but not to the same degree if that makes sense.

When looking for oak leaves you are wanting ones that are naturally dried and fallen- or brown and fallen (you can lay them out to dry on your own).

You can either place whole one(s) in your tank or crush them up and let them seep in water (with conditioner) for 24+ hrs to get the tannin out of them and use that in the tank water.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

^+1 very good answer from myates


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## emeraldmaster (Sep 6, 2012)

good. i cannot get ahold of ial. i've had to use oak and didn't know if it would work, i was told that they strengthen the fins... is that true? sorry to do this to you asukabetta.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Leo Buss did spectrographic analysis on oak leaves, almond leaves and several other types and concluded that oak was 99% identical to almond chemically and the fish can't tell the difference.

I use/collect-naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf. I use them for a general tonic, medication and for the male to anchor his nest. I crush them and steep in 1gal jugs of dechlorinated water-about 20 more or less for medication. I will place them whole 2-5 depending on tank size for a general tonic and lightly tanning the water. If you use them for a general tonic-you might want to use them whole to make it easier to remove/replace as needed. I let mine break down/decomp in my soil based tanks-since the decomp will naturally create CO2 and nutrients for my plants.

When you use high levels of tannins-you need to either acclimate or have your replacement water pre-tanned-since the tannins can change the chemistry.

IMO/E-when you compare the tannins between IAL and Oak leaf-the only difference I have seen-is the color of the tannins and it takes less of the IAL to reach the color you want. IAL is darker IME, however, after about a week the tannin from the oak leaf can get pretty dark.

Both-have antibacterial/fungal properties, can help ease stress, toughen fins/scales and change the pH.

The antibacterial/fungal properties can be destroyed in water temps 110F and greater.

To toughen fins/scales-the tannins need to be used long term.

To remove the tannin stains on the aquarium walls-Vinegar with an empty tank. With glass tanks you can also use a razor blade and with acrylic tanks-an acrylic safe algae scrubber.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Hey, OFL! I have lots of oak trees were I am too.
Is there anything we'd have to do to clean off the oak leaves before using them? My fish is sick and I'm worried about pesticides or toxins getting in the tank along with the benefits.
Also, how does the oak change the water parameters?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Long term- the Oak leaf decomp can altar the pH-Decomp naturally produce CO2 and the CO2 will drive the pH down. Also, slight chemistry changes-usually a healthy Betta will tolerate-but a compromised might have issue and it is best to acclimate properly to error on the side of caution.

If you think the leaves have been exposed to pesticides-I wouldn't use them-not worth the risk.

I don't do anything to my leaves before use-other than shake excessive debris off of them, however, I also have soil based tanks and any added dirt isn't going to be an issue or even noticed...lol.....

In regular inert substrate or bare bottom tank-I would wipe them off or even a quick rinse before use. 

I try to collect Oak leaves that are intact and free of insect damage-but that isn't always possible. I still use torn, holy leaves-but if they have what looks like insect eggs or abnormal looking galls/growths-I will either tear that section off or toss it. Even leaves that might have been on the ground from last year, rained or snowed on-I will use them, it just might take more of them since some of the tannins might have leached already.

Since tannins are a natural product-you can't overdose them.

The longer they steep-the more tannins released-the darker the water.

Once premixed in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-they can sometimes take on a smell. I have done multi test and experiments with the smelly tanned water and have not found it to be harmful to a Betta, however, I do recommend that you mix up new water weekly.

I also don't worry about the leaf bits in my premixed jugs that I use for treatments. Sometimes these bits will flow into the QT with the Betta-they seem to like these leaf bit to help make them feel secure as well as pick at the microorganism that colonize on them.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

When in doubt, go with OFL  She can say things much better and detailed than most here when it comes to information like this 

I have used and do use oak on my pet betta tanks, but I like IAL when I'm going to breed, but that is my personal opinion/like.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info! I might gather some leaves this week after things stop being soggy from the hurricane. My campus has a lot of trees, plenty of them are oak


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## asukabetta (Oct 2, 2012)

Imma ask the campus gardiner if they use pesticides around the campus i dont want to risk anything


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## emeraldmaster (Sep 6, 2012)

i thank you, i have a huge oak ten feet from my room window. and since the leaves are falling here, i'll just go get me some!


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

Does it matter what type of oak it is? I think that I may have several types on my campus.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have about 6 different species of oak trees on my property and it all seem to work the same, however, some oak leaf tannin do seem to be different colors.


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## MadameDesu (Feb 5, 2012)

That's great! Gonna gather some today for my sick little fish


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