# Just asking questions :)



## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Lol, accidently put this in the wron forum last night (silly sleepy me)

Anyone have any experience with this sand/substrate stuff?
(working on trying a NPT... and this will be my first experience with sand so I don't really know what I'm doing :roll

Plants I have are:
Anacharis
Banana Plant
Cardimine?? (Looks suspiciously like penny or money wort... very similar leaves to the banana plant)
Wistera (only one of these :sad

Also toying with the idea of putting in a terracotta pot... but I've heard mixed things about these

The tank is a 3 gal cube.

More questions xD
Will I need the filter that I have? (Whisper filter 10i I think)

Could/should I add maybe a few ghost shrimpies or a snail?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yes you will need a filter and an MTS will help the sand.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

The thing that worries me with the MTS is how fast they multiply :/


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Just get one but something that burrows in sand helps with gas exchange.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

So... add to above list one MTS... except no where near me has them... anyone willing to sell me one??? xD or know of reputable places to get said snail online? I can check petco (there's not one in the town I currently live in but I'm going to visit my parents this weekend and there's a nice one near them) I'm pretty sure my LFS doesn't have MTS... all they have are mystery snails... petsmart doesn't have any either here... maybe in the other town? Dx


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Usually, not always...but most of the pet shop will give you all the MTS you want since they are pest snails. I personally like them and they all have jobs in my soil based planted tanks.

Since you are in Texas, you have several aquarium clubs and you could also check that out for both snails and plants.

As for the sand, I have used that to cap my soil for my natural planted tanks and it has worked well for me. The dark colored sand can really help the Betta color pop.

I use half as much sand to cap my soil in my NPT's.
Your plant choices look good for a soil based NPT.

I don't use filters in my smaller soil based tanks-I let the plants function as the filtration/biofilter. Sometimes I might use a filter for the first couple of months until the soil matures-then I remove it-since its not really needed-provided that you have enough of the right species of plants in active growth. Floating plants-like water lettuce are also helpful especially in your soil based systems and recommended.

Some of the Long fin males can have fin issues with water movement-especially in the smaller tanks. IMO/E-filters are optional with this species and with live active growing plants that will function as the filter to help with water quality.

Proper color temp lights are the most important with planted tanks-regardless if it is a NPT soil based or regular inert substrate like sand or gravel.

What kind of soil are you going to use under your sand, what kind of lights, age of bulbs, kelvin, watts and planned photoperiod. 

If you only plan to use that sand and not use any soil-you don't really need trumpet snails, however, I wouldn't use more than 2 inch of the sand or place a wide item on top of it-bury the base to help prevent anaerobic issues. Once the stem plants start to grow-their roots will help pull oxygen into the sand to prevent anaerobic problems. Adding shrimp will be fine, however, unless they have lots of places to hide they might end up as a snack-Some Betta tolerate them better than others. Adding snails are fine too IMO/E and this will complete you little ecosystem.


Look forward to pics....


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Wow! Thanks a lot OFL 
I actually just managed to find an MTS and will be adding it to the tank soon I hope.
What would you recommend for floating plants? My LFS don't carry water lettuce, currently I have some of my young anacharis sprouts floating in QT

I was debating on just using the sand or grabbing a small bag of Flourite to use with it. I currently have a 6500k bulb (not sure on wattage, I can check later when I'm back at my apartment) and lamp that I use, not sure on how old it is :/ The plants have been growing just fine with it thus far however.

I will post pics and updates as soon as I can


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Or... now that I think about it, should I use regular potting soil for the soil or...? (not really sure what I should do/use)


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

If you have no soil from outside free of pesticides, or if you do but it lacks nutrients, use organic potting soil. Also make sure it has no manure in it.

Wisteria gets super bushy, so it may not be suitable for this tank unless you want a thick jungle.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

kfryman said:


> If you have no soil from outside free of pesticides, or if you do but it lacks nutrients, use organic potting soil. Also make sure it has no manure in it.
> 
> Wisteria gets super bushy, so it may not be suitable for this tank unless you want a thick jungle.


Yeah... all the soil near me is soaked in pesticides DX my college sprays everything so heavily it kills at least half the monarchs that come through during migrating season... 

I'll look for organic potting soil though... any good or recommended brands that I could pick up at a walmart, lowes, or homedepot?

Also, I only have one stem of the wisteria, so I'm not TOO worried about it, if it gets out of hand I may remove it


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

miracle gro organic potting soil is what is usually recommended.
personally I wouldnt bother with eco complete with potting soil just because the soil itself has a decent level of cec (ability to hold nutrients) which is eco completes only advantage, it would be cheaper to just buy sand or something.


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

I have Eco-complete in two of my tanks. My plants LOVE it. I supplement with a dose of Flourish Potassium every couple of weeks because my water seems to have a deficiency.

Eco-complete is not a sand, though; the texture is closer to a lumpy potting soil (somewhere between sand and gravel). 

I do not have trumpet snails and I would never deliberately add them to my tank. You have to be certain that you will always want them (and lots of them!) if you go in that direction. I recommend setting up the tank without the MTS for a while. If, after the tank is established, you think that your plants are suffering from not having the substrate burrowed through, then consider (carefully!) the addition of a trumpet snail.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

Eco complete doesn't contain any nutrients, it just has the ability to hold nutrients you add to the tank.


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

starrlamia said:


> Eco complete doesn't contain any nutrients, it just has the ability to hold nutrients you add to the tank.


I'm not sure that's accurate. From their website: "rich basaltic volcanic soil which contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants."


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

inuudo said:


> I'm not sure that's accurate. From their website: "rich basaltic volcanic soil which contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants."


 http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108372

from their website:
Eco-Complete™ Planted will last indefinitely. It won’t break down or turn to mud. Eco-Complete™ Planted will supply trace elements that the plant needs but does not supply a fertilizer component ie. N,P or K. You either need to add the fertilizer or have fish in there that you feed regularly.

If you read threads on plantedtank.net most people dont trust it to give much other than micro nutrients for any period of time, and those nutrients dont last that long from what I have read.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Well seeing as MTS reproduce sexually, I'm not worried about just having the one.

Also I will be upgrading the tank to a 5 gal next week (not starting the NPT just yet) I'm kind of excited about this whole NPT thing. I already ordered the eco complete, so I'll just use it as a cap for the soil like OFL suggested. 

Question:
Do you rinse the soil or...? what do you do with it before/after you put it in the tank?


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

twolovers101 said:


> Well seeing as MTS reproduce sexually, I'm not worried about just having the one.


Malaysian trumpet snails reproduce asexually.



starrlamia said:


> You either need to add the fertilizer or have fish in there that you feed regularly.


I was under the impression that this tank would have fish in it. If it's a planted-only tank, then it will need supplements for sure.


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## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

inuudo said:


> Malaysian trumpet snails reproduce asexually.


Oh lol whoops, stupid websites giving bad information XD
Anyhow, I'm still not worried, I've done the research on them and as long as I don't over feed it should be okay, I'll still keep an eye on it of course, I'm not an idiot xD



> I was under the impression that this tank would have fish in it. If it's a planted-only tank, then it will need supplements for sure.


I'm not sure if I said, but it's for my DTHM, so yes there will be a fish, and I am still debating on adding a couple of shrimps because I like them  (not too many, I'm no stranger to bioload issues)


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

I know it's just anecdata, but I had plants that were getting steadily smaller/dying in one tank with a gravel substrate. Once I shifted them to a tank with eco-complete, they revived quickly and are thriving. 

My tanks are still quite young, so I'll need to monitor developments carefully, of course. Other people who have had tanks for years have told me that they use eco-complete and recommend it. They do supplement for their own water deficiencies, of course, as I mentioned that I do for the potassium.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

twolovers101 said:


> Question:
> Do you rinse the soil or...? what do you do with it before/after you put it in the tank?


Read through this sticky-it should answer your questions on sitting up a soil based system. Don't hesitate to ask more question if you don't understand.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575


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