# Several fin tears not healing



## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

(( I hate that my first post is an emergency post I but hi ))


My super delta betta McGee has many tears in his fins (primarily caudal) that don't get better. There aren't any signs of infection and is definitely not fin rot. He's had them for too long and they don't get worse or better. I've done the usual of upping the temp and adding salt but have gotten no results. The filter is kept on the lowest setting and doesn't push him around. All decorations have no sharp edges. It just odd! 

He's kept in a 6.6 gallon long/book shelf aquarium kept at 77-80 degrees. It is planted ( 3 anubias plants, 1 java fern, and 1 marimo ) and he is kept with two African dwarf frogs. The frogs aren't responsible seeing as I haven't had them long and the fin problems have been going on for weeks. He used to be kept in a 2.5 gal before this one. Other than the tears he eats fine and has normal behavior. He is a low aggression betta so it isn't caused by fin flaring seeing as he rarely does it. Any ideas why they won't heal?


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Do you think he might be biting his fins? My betta, Fishie, is a biter but I never actually see him do it. His tail was all short and sad looking at one point last summer, and it took a long time to start growing back. I had hard water at the time (I've moved since then) and I heard that can be the cause of slower healing (do his fins curl at all?). Anyway, my betta's tail grew back longer, but every once in a while he starts biting again and gets long tears in his caudal. Maybe yours is just continually biting and you just never see him do it. Or it's taking longer to heal because you have hard water.


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

I've never seen him and I've heard if they bite the rips will be curved. These are straight. His fins don't curl either. 
Also, I've never heard that hard water could affect that! The ph and the like are perfect but the water is hard. I recently did some research and I believe you can soften it with water softening pillows? I can't afford any of the R/O things so I think I may give the pillows a try. Thanks for bringing that up!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Did you buy him with the tattered fins or did it start after you got him and if so, how long after. In the 2.5gal that you started with-did it have a filter. Did the tattered fins start before or after placed in the 6.6gal filtered tank.
How much and how often are your water changes, additives used, type/amount of food/feeding. How much and how long did you use the salt.

Most Betta will adapt to your source water pH and hardness and it is best not to try and change it-especially with chemicals. Its best to avoid the sudden extreme changes and with using the pillows-you would need to have your replacement water pH and hardness matched for the water changes. 

Can you post a pic...


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

No. I bought him as a baby with no rips. It's been like this for a few weeks or so. The 2.5 did have a filter. The fins started before he was in the 6.6. The 6.6 is recent so I'm still working out a cleaning schedule. He's fed betta pellets w/ krill and vitamin C in them. He does get a couple (frozen) bloodworms from when I feed the frogs. I usually add a little whenever I put in new water. I just follow the box directions. I think they said a tablespoon per five gal? That may be wrong. Ill try and add a reply for the pics. It's hard to get them since he rarely flares up and has large fins. One minute


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

A bit hard to see I'm afraid. There's a large one on top of the caudal fin and a few shorter ones below that don't show as much unless you see him moving around more. They don't get better or worse :/ also there isn't any rot at the bottom. His fins are clear there so it didn't appear fully

And thanks ton to those who reply. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here 

EDIT- wow that is why we don't upload from our phone. Sorry.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What a pretty Betta....from what I can tell from the pic-It looks like he has some new growth on the tips of his fins and it almost looks like biting-but to be honest, I am having a bit of a problem seeing the large pic on my small screen.

Sometimes, the Long fin males can have fin issues due to water movement and even using the long delicate fins to swim. Kinda like the flag in the wind effect.

Since he is overall acting his normal self and he doesn't have a secondary infection and showing fin regrowth-You might try tannins to help tough the fins/scale or even turn the filter off, however, since you have ADF-It might be better to move him back to the 2.5gal without a filter and start a fresh dechlorinated water with tannin treatment. This could at least rule out the water current as a cause of the chronic fin damage-provided its not due to biting.

Premix your tannin water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water so the tannins can leach-then use this premixed water for your three weekly 50% water changes for 2 weeks-then reduce them to twice weekly.

Tannins-either IAL (Indian almond leaf) or naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf. Use 1 large crushed/gal IAL or 20 crushed Oak leaf per gallon.

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals-If you have access to live mosquito larva-feed several rinsed a couple of times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response and healing/regrowth.

I wouldn't use the aquarium salt longer than 10 days and unless he has a secondary infection-I wouldn't use it at all. Its a great product to use for the right reason, dosage and duration-but not recommend long term.

Good luck and keep us posted...


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

Thanks bunches  ill do some research into Tannin water


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

You can try adding a few drops of any Aloe Vera bottle intended for fish. It helps heal wounds and relaxes the fish. I use that whenever there's a tear in my betta's fins.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

Update: I got some new pics so you can see better. I had to put him in a bowl while I was doing something and decided to get some pictures while I was at it. You can see the trouble area much better now. A water softening pillow is in the filter and I'm looking into order some IALs. Also, I tested the water this morning and the pH is now perfect and the gH is soft. Great water quality in general after putting in the pillow. 
I do worry that he bites after you said that  I feel like I'd see it seeing as I'm at my desk/computer 8-10hrs mon-sat and the aquarium is right next to it. I'm really worried about him. 
( I'm thinking about making the aquarium blackwater actually. From what I've researched it shouldn't harm the frogs any. )


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

I looked at his fins this morning and they just look shredded(caudal fin only). I'm really worried at this point. 
(








UPDATE


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You might need to remove the filter for awhile and use some tannins to toughen the fins.

If he is not biting-its most likely the filter or water movement that is shredding the long delicate, heavy fins.


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm ordering IALs now and the filter that has been on the lowest setting is now off. I really hope this helps him. Thank you so much for helping out btw. I'm also hoping to get a higher watt heater so I can bump it up higher.


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

Before I order them. Will the frogs be okay in blackwater? From what I've researched it shouldn't hurt them but you may say otherwise.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have never kept ADF and don't know much about the care, however, I wouldn't think tannins would be an issue.

To bad you don't have any Oak trees...that is what I use-Oak leaves from my Oak trees-naturally dried and fallen from the tree...I love the price...Free...lol...especially since they are 99% the same as IAL and the Betta can't tell the difference between the two...


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

Quick update. Nothing too new to report. I haven't seen any new tears or im just not noticing them. I think I see a bit of fin regrowth actually and I really hope that's the case. The heater I've been using is too small for the tank and recently broke so I ordered an eheim jager 50w using the express shipping option so it'll get here today. Hopefully finally having the temp in the 79-83 range that hes used to will help his fins. 

Also here he is hijacking the frogs picture from this morning








"No don't take pictures of the frog take them of meee"


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> I have never kept ADF and don't know much about the care, however, I wouldn't think tannins would be an issue.
> 
> To bad you don't have any Oak trees...that is what I use-Oak leaves from my Oak trees-naturally dried and fallen from the tree...I love the price...Free...lol...especially since they are 99% the same as IAL and the Betta can't tell the difference between the two...


I am sorry if I am off the subject, but I'm interested in how you prepare the leaves and keep it bacteria free? I have an Oak tree and would like to use them the same way you do. Thanks!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

soady said:


> I am sorry if I am off the subject, but I'm interested in how you prepare the leaves and keep it bacteria free? I have an Oak tree and would like to use them the same way you do. Thanks!


You want the bacteria from the Oak leaf tannins-this is the good stuff-

All I do for my Oak leaves-is to add them either to the tank whole or crushed in a jug to steep. I don't wash my leaves, however, you can-it won't hurt anything-I don't because I have soil based tanks and any dirt on them won't hurt or be noticed....lol....Once the leaves start to break down remove and replace with fresh leaves-Be sure and have the replacement water used for water changes pre-tanned.


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## soady (Nov 26, 2012)

Thank you.


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

So you can just put them directly in? I did some research on using them and all I found was how you had to boil them and all sorts of things. If you don't need to do all that I may try and find some outside. I doubt I will given where I live but it's worth a shot.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Acalendra said:


> So you can just put them directly in? I did some research on using them and all I found was how you had to boil them and all sorts of things. If you don't need to do all that I may try and find some outside. I doubt I will given where I live but it's worth a shot.


If you are referring to Oak leaf or IAL-If you want to use them for medication-I wouldn't boil them since temps over 110F can kill the antibacterial/fungal properties. If you just want the tannins to darken the water-boiling is fine to make tea-then store in the fridge-be sure and label so someones doesn't drink it by mistake...lol....


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## Acalendra (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm sorry it's been so long but i finally have an update! I have no clue what did it specifically but after all this time the tears and missing bits are growing back slowly but surely. I'm not sure exactly what the issue was but basically I've been obsessively keeping the water *perfect*. I started keeping the heater at 80/81(he seems to do best at this, i know others like it a bit lower though. Whatever floats your boat McGee), resanded anything that could possibly hurt him in anyway, stopped using AQ salt, started adding more bloodworms to his diet, etc etc. This past week or two white has filled in the lower missing bits and the white from before is turning pink. The red on the top half of the caudal fin is all grown back and is now just missing some clear bits. Hopefully the regrowth continues. I still have no idea what caused them in the first place. I assume it was biting due to being unhappy or something but they never healed until now. It's just strange. Either way, if he decides to flare up i'll do my best to get a picture or two if anyone's interested. Also, thank you bunches for the input and help.


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