# Laki's honey gourami



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

So I figured I might as well open a journal rather than spam the anabantid section over and over with new pictures or developments. 

I got this tank started up mid-July. It is a 20g tall, running a Fluval U2 filter and heated with Fluval submersible. Lighting is a Marineland LED hood canopy. Plants are java fern, anubias eyes and salvinia. Water is tanned with IAL.

I wanted to go for a blackwater look (hence, the low light plants) but I opted to keep a silk pothos in there which makes it slightly unnatural and also not geographically correct. 

I originally picked up a trio of honey gourami from a pet store. I chose a male wild type, a sunset yellow and a fire red. All were too small to sex (except the wild male) and unfortunately the red was sick and died. Then I joined a local aquarium hobby/classified group on facebook and found someone re-homing 5 honey gourami. I bought 3 off her, which we thought were females (still so, compared to some sunset males we compared them to).

I have always loved gourami and was very excited to get this set up and running. My plans for the tank changed more than once but I finally settled on floating some driftwood to screw with the empty space over the water surface and break it up so it's not plain. 

The fish all get along. The original small yellow I bought has kind of kept her dorsal fin pinned down since I got her, she puts it up every now and then but she is really not as boisterous as the others and floats/glides around without enthusiasm. She hangs around the wild boy mostly and while he chases the other 3 away he usually tolerates the small one the most. 

I bought the 3 new ones around the same time my IAL arrived so wild boy quickly went into breeding mode. He tends to a very large bubble nest, this morning I noticed his colors have become even more vibrant (cannot get a picture to save my life bc he's so quick). Slight yellow appeared on his pelvic fin, the yellow crest on top is brighter and the black face has spread to almost his whole head.

I'm actually wondering who he planning on spawning with. I am NOT prepared to separate them and rear babies. If he spawns with one of them I am wondering if every last baby will be eaten or is there a chance they will survive on their own if they hide among the salvinia roots? And how aggressive do males get when they're protecting the nest? I understand in a larger natural habitat the female would just go away but in a tank what sorts of things should I be looking for?

Another thing, I probably have the tank level lowered about 3-4 inches (goes back to me wanting a riparium and then just wanting somehting in the negative space) and I often see wild boy and maybe one or two of the females spitting water! Lately, it's the male spitting streams around his nest (to oxygenate them?) but it's so cool to watch! And of course he stops when I get up to watch closer. 

Imgur album> Honey Gouramis - Album on Imgur


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Can't help you with any of your gourami questions, but I did want to tell you that they are adorable and gorgeous! I'll be interested to see what happens if they do decide to breed.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Following :-D

You could still throw in some stem plants like Philodendron just to drape over the tank; doesn't need a lot of light but will definitely root in the tank. You can do emersed Java Fern on the piece of wood as well! Half of my Java Fern is growing out of water now but just try to keep it a little moist and it will be happy for you! Plenty of options to go without going full riparium


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks both 

Lil, I think that plant is beautiful! Ack, unfortunately it is toxic to cats (which is why I think I opted for silk pothos to begin with, though I can't remember)

I DID get a video of WildBoy spitting, he seemed quite proud of himself. This way you can see the colors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5S7uUz72Cg

EDIT Okay, I just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O18n-oJzwTE SO adorbs


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Wow! That's a fantastic video of the Wild Boy! Didn't know they could do that! I wonder if its function is similar to the Archer fish's function; they use a stream of water to knock prey down into the water!

And yeah, Mr. Mango is cute ^_^ Betta's do the same thing; dad spends all day going back and forth corralling his little fry back into the nest lol!


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Your gourami videos are so adorable! ^.^


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Thank you  
I caught one of the yellow females yesterday streaming water but she only did it for a second before she was chased away. I had no idea gourami were mouthbrooders, when I saw the Mr.Mango video I was like "nooooo how cruel! Why did you title your video to trick me!! ... oh.. AWWW that's friggen adorable!". 

I read that they spit water to catch bugs for themselves and for their babies but I have no bugs (and no intention of harvesting bugs). He doesn't know that though, maybe if I brought in one of my white fly infested plants from outside and suction cupped it to the tank they could eat those! That is actually not a bad idea ...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

They aren't mouthbrooders. There's a difference between taking into mouth to return to nest and keeping in mouth for two weeks on end. Mouthbrooders do not let go of their fry until they are developed enough to survive (for most small species, that's around 10-14 days), the fry are mostly on their own after that.

Bubble nesters (almost all gourami species, there are some mouthbrooders such as Samurai and I believe Chocolates) will take their fry into their mouth to fan them and help feed them but they primarily stay in the nest that they make 

And yeah, they could totally eat the flies or even flightless fruit flies if you have them at your pet stores. I know mostly they're for reptiles but great for carnivores of all types!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh woops, Today I Learned! Thanks for clearing that up for me. 

I have to check my plant outside. I have been spraying it with oil/soap water but I haven't sprayed it for almost a week and we have had lots of rain. I won't trim off a branch that has been sprayed. There are spiders on it too so I might just write off the whole thing.

As for wingless fruit flies.. I know the stores do not have them but there are some hobby folks I have on a facebook group who might. But I really don't want to willingly bring those into my home if I don't have to. We are battling several waves of fruit flies in the kitchen despite cleaning the sinks and changing the garbage and keeping the compost in the freezer and washing our bananas in vinegar. Ugh. They're such a pain. 

I will probably leave live bugs out of this for as long as I can.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, we've got some bad fruit flies here too but SOMEBODY (my mom) keeps leaving out fruit peels....we have a compost pile and so we normally put the peels/tops in a container until they go outside but she's been just leaving them on the counter lately >.> So yeah, I understand. You don't need the insects at all, just a suggestion. I'm really not certain if they're just aerating the water or doing the Archerfish thing, it could be anything really!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh man, I would have a hard time with people leaving peels out, especially in the summer! We have a compost bin but fruit flies were still getting at it occasionally, and the bin was too small for the eco-bags we bought. So we just keep the bags in the freezer, it's a small deep freezer and the bag just stands open in it. It almost seems like a waste to run the freezer for the compost but then I remember how I had to deal with the fruit flies last time (sugar and milk soap trap). It was horrible. 

I know they don't need live insects but I know they would like it.

On another note, here's the tank as of now. I haven't turned the lights yet, I love that it looks like a deep dark abyss. I wouldn't put my feet in there if I approached it in the forest. Actually that's a lie, last summer Matt and I found an old soldier's encampment dam supply pond (artificially dammed) on a hill. It was as dark as my tank or darker and we stuck our feet in it. Didn't get attacked and eaten by mutant fish so we had that going for us!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol, I totally understand! I used to swim in dark ponds just fine....now I'm a little more petrified about it and probably won't swim in lakes or ponds any more. Pools and ocean is fine for me!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

*Other Pets!!*

Okay. Here's a photo dump. 
I always had pets of my own so when I moved in with my partner I took my pets (a dog and a rabbit[acacia] then). Even now, he doesn't really consider the bunny part his but we have been living together for 5 years! I think that's long enough to claim 1/2 ownership of a rabbit! 
Anyway, our first pet together was Oliver. Oliver was my mom's neighbor's cat and we had no intention of even getting one until my mom called me one night 4 years ago and said her neighbor left Oliver outside when he got arrested, assuming he would look after himself. Anyway, so Oliver came to live with us. We think he might have been around 3-4 years old when we got him which would make him around 7-8 now. 

Sansa was a failed rescue + rehome. Matt and I were walking down our street one fall day and saw her huddled up tight in the doorway of a pharmacy. Since it was raining and cold we took her home and she lived in our bathroom for a week while we tried to find her a home. I was this close to setting her up with someone else who agreed to take her temporarily until someone could adopt her until the lady mentioned off-handedly that the cat would be staying in her garage without heat. So... we kept her. It was funny, Matt (my partner) didn't like going into the bathroom when Sansa was in there because she was so cute and fluffy and small. She went into her first heat at our house - she really wanted Oliver! I think that helped them get along at the beginning > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-GRLwgQCc.
Mine and Matt's birthdays are within a month of each other so we agreed in lieu of presents we would keep her and have her spayed and all that. Judging by her size and her first heat I'm thinking Sansa was about 10-11 months when we found her, making her about 3 years old now? 

Finally, there's Bunny. Her name is Acacia but we just call her Bunny (sort of a thing Matt started because he kept forgetting her name). I got her on a whim 8 and half years ago from someone's classified ad. She never bonded to my other rabbit (whom I adopted off my cousin) and she has always been standoff-ish and shy. She's going to be turning 9 in September and while she still prefers to be by herself behind the couch she does enjoy a good massage here and there. She's quite the character! 10/10 would do again.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Okay.. All that talk about bugs. I have a lot of springtails. A lot. 

They are living on the floating driftwood's exposed parts. I know they like moist wood (I had springtails in my old 120 year old apartment). As long as they stay in the tank they are welcome to stay because that's free food for the gourami requiring nothing from me (no touching them or feeding them or anything). Maybe that's what all the spitting was about. 

Also, I took the video of WildBoy spitting water on his nest the other day and overnight he moved his entire nest to the other side of the tank over the filter. 

I found this and it seems they can stay


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Little Yellow hasn't been right since I got them. She always had a clamped dorsal fin and wasn't quite growing or super energetic. Always she eats but she is pretty listless most of the time. Yesterday while scanning the top of the water from above to make sure when I put my hand in to start water changes I wouldn't touch a shrimp or springtails I noticed one of her eyes bulged out. 

Immediately I set up a quarantine tank with jungle lifeguard and some ial. She was in that overnight. This morning she was not showing much signs of anything so I switched her to salt. She's acclimating now, I read that lifeguard was pretty useless though it saved at least 3 or 4 cardinal tetras when the shoal went down last year. Anyway, I'm thinking salt might have a better effect, her eye is puffy and slime coat is coming off. She has a few scars and some of her fin is nipped from WildBoy defending his stupid bubble nest. So to make sure those don't get worse the salt + ial will be there until she's better or she passes.

I feel bad, she looks as sad as Red before he died.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Poor thing, definitely pop-eye. If she doesn't get better in a couple days, I recommend finding some antibiotics to help her out. KanaPlex will be the best for this but if you can't order it or don't have it on hand, you can also try to find Maracyn/Erythromycin (they are essentially the same), or Maracyn II.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks lil, I just ordered Kanaplex and it should be here Thurs or Friday.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Cool, hopefully she lives and get's better! Rooting for little Yellow!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Me too! Thanks 

Upon reading I think I should mix up some epsom salt too, I guess it helps to draw fluid out. I have used aq and epsom together before with bettas. Maybe I'll add half the dose today and more tomorrow so it's not too shocking.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Why did you add AQ salt in the first place? Not that it's bad but I was just wondering the reasoning. Yes ES is a laxative and will help draw out fluids, try not to use too much (1 tsp/gal will be good for her) because it can also dehydrate the fish if used too long as well, two weeks is normal medical dose. You can mix salt with KanaPlex as well.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Salt for the slime coat and scales, this was before I knew it was popeye. 

Anyway, it's all in vain. She appears to be dying. At least I'll have the kanaplex around for next time something goes wrong.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

AQ salt aggravates the slime coat to shed more, the fish will produce another layer but it will do that with or without the salt.

Sorry to hear that :-(


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

She's gone. I just got home and found her. I super screwed up with the salt then, but I have a feeling she would have still passed without it :<


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Welp, Wildboy has become too much for the group and has alienated himself and his friends. He is too much of a bully right now so I am getting a new tank dropped off today from kijiji and he is going in the bedroom by himself. 

I counted all my original 5 ghost shrimp today too! So nobody died. And the mama is no longer carrying so I expect there are babies in there somewhere now. They will be impossible to find, I hope I dont vacuum any!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Set up the new 10g, seeding it from my 20g. First I just put WildBoy in it. He stayed there all evening and last night really drained of color, terrified of me and just lame all around. I understand water parameters can do that since he has to adjust from his old tank to the new tank. I went to the dollarstore and found their best looking silk plants (and one plastic one) and now I'm waiting to get back to the pet store for more gravel and decorations/driftwood. 

I noticed a few days ago that one of the yellow honeys was chasing the grizzle female around and today I noticed her tail was all nipped up and the aggression has amplified since last night so I figured I would separate the aggressor from Grizzle. Grizzle is now swimming with WildBoy in the 10g and the other 2 yellows are in the 20. SO far it seems to have worked. While the 2 in the new tank adjust to their new surroundings they are completely okay. The filter agitates the surface just enough that I don't think WildBoy is going to nest (thank god because that's what made me get this stupid new tank in the first place). The color _instantly _came back to WildBoy when he saw his buddy floating in the tank, they truly are happier together. 

The new tank is a Marina Style kit 10, someone on Kijiji was selling the thing- she bought it 3 months ago, set it up, ran it, never bought fish for it and then tore it down to sell. Her loss, my gain. Everything is brand new and she even included a heater. 

Unfortunately, I am very unhappy with the set-up. I hate the stupid marbles in it and I hate the thin thin layer of gravel. I hate that I can't do much with the silk plants except leave them the way they are until I get more gravel and I hate how open and clear the water is. There are 2 fresh IAL so it will tan soon but there's no background, no driftwood. It all looks too fake to me and I hate that I never got a chance to properly plan it.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Just added 5 more pounds of gravel to the 10 gallon. It's looking much better, instead of wasting my day picking out all the stupid marbles I just covered them with gravel, that way they're still in there since I have nowhere to put them and every now and then you can spot a blue sparkle like you're out in the tropical Pacific pearl hunting. ha not really but I don't hate the tank anymore. I still need to improve it. The water is cloudy from the new gravel so no pics.. 

Secondly, I got a half decent picture of Mrs. Opaque shrimp. She is so active I took like 30 pictures and they were all blurry. I don't know what's going on with her, she was opaque when I got her and I expected her to die because of what I read online but what did I have them 2 or 3 weeks now? She is the most active and the first to come out at feeding time.. I don't even specifically feed the shrimp bc they're my little cleanup crew and they're happy with the tidbits the 2 gourami let fall down. But yea. So here's Opaque and when should I start seeing babies? The mama dropped her greenies about a week ago I think, so within the month I should start seeing them? There's no hope to remove them because 1. where would I put them and 2. catching shrimp is one of my least favorite things about fishkeeping and 3. my tank is natural enough that the babies will be well hidden and safe under the wood.

I should add, is there a way this shrimp maybe is a mix breed? I couldn't find much about online but she is a little larger than my other female, I have 3 males. Perhaps I am optimistic and she is old and dying but her activity leads me thinking the other way.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

She looks like a Yellow Neocaridina


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't know, unless she is a hybrid. Yellow neos are small like RCS I thought? This one is pretty big, like way bigger than RCS but not as big as Amano. Here's a better color pic, it's like white and orange spots (which are on all ghosties but appear more vivid on her). I read it might be a non aggressive bacteria that some shrimp can live with, she has not spread it in the weeks I had them. I won't worry. I think she looks cool, if she dies she dies. Also, as you can see in the picture, sometimes she goes right up to the top and picks crud off the floating driftwood and this pic I took yesterday she was eating floating food. I have never seen a dwarf shrimp eat food from the water surface! :shock:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yes, almost all shrimp do that ^_^
Neos do get bigger than the small ones you see at the stores, not as big as full grown Ghosty I think. But they are completely separate species and cannot inbreed due to different states of egg hatching. Neos come out fully formed, a tiny shrimp; Ghosties have a larval state before they are tiny shrimp. Some Ghosties actually do get very nice color on them. There are a couple different species that are sold under that name so you could have just a different species than the typical one sold.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Wow, Today I Learned! Thanks! You're so smart and have an answer for everything! <3

Now she needs a name because she's distinguishable. No, I'll need two lady names! because I have two distinguishable females.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol, I definitely don't have an answer for EVERYTHING, but yeah, I do know a lot of stuff haha.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Finally officially named my 10 gallon.. No longer WildBoy and Grizzle. Since they're in their own tank and I can tell them apart they're Cathy and BoyCathy. This is more funny to me as a fan of Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job. A running joke is naming my fish and inhabitants after stupid things in that show. Fix the Fern Back will always be my favorite but I cannot keep using that one :#


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

So BoyCathy is back in his 10g with Cathy (who is apparantly also a boy). New names are coming. He is happy and back to color. 

I ordered from aquaticMagic in July, by the end of July I received my plants: a java fern and 2 anubias.. One anubias melted and the java fern is fine. The other anubias was also quickly melting so I read about how to save it- emersing the roots and leaving the leaves out of the water! The growth in these pictures happened over a few days, I was thinking it was a goner and moving it to the top of the tank would at least give me quick access to remove it without getting the nopes from the shrimp. But yea it's growing like crazy now! 

Finally, I got a bristlenose pleco. He is named Chewy and so far he is super shy, has not eaten what I offered and is in heaven with the driftwood and IAL. He is currently in the newly cycled 10g until he gets a little bigger. I got him from my local fb aquarium stuff group, he was locally bred and her other plecos don't grow more than 4-5".


PetSmart also had the wildest selection of bettas I have ever seen. Honestly, I would have taken at least one of them home if I didn't have gouramis. Two were like a cookies and cream color with a cream body and odd patches and spots of grey-black and I was staring at them while the worker cleaned their cups and she pointed to another. It was blue/purple with yellow fins and a piebald head but such as I have never seen before. That was the one I wanted so bad. SO would have something to say about that I think.


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