# Spawn Log: Yellow Salamander HM



## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

From a pair I recently got off aquabid. At first I was super worried cause I thought the male was a little small but they figured it out quite well and with very minimal damage. The female only got a few nips and the male has none at all  The spawn is in a 5 gal tub 3-4 inches high with water, java moss and oak leaves. They were conditioned for a week on bloodworms, pellets and a ton of live black worms. I never spwned in a container this small we will see how it goes also the first time I have ever used bbs (I could never find it where I used to live). Pics of parents (sorry I didnt get them flaring), container, and of the nest. Yay excitement!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'll need to grab a few from this spawn D:


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Great looking pair! Should make some great prodgeny!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah I am excited about how they will turn out so far daddy is being good. He condensed the nest last night, he likes the nest tall lol it sticks out of the water a good 1/4- 1/2 inch now, looks like a lot of eggs.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Beautiful pair! I'm still working on form, and it looks like you already have it. Good luck with your spawn.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

wow she is sooo finny i thought i was looking at a male for a second.


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

LOL if there weren't eggs I would say they were both male, the females finnage is just incredible!!!Goodluck with the spawn, Keep us updated!!!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Gah the male has let the bubblenest shrink DX I hate it when they do that it makes me think he is eating the eggs or forgetting them


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I know the feeling. ._. I wonder if there is some way to make artificial bubbles, maybe by mixing certain water-based substances together to make hardy bubbles that you can stick under the nest via airline.

Hmmmm.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe I wish. It wouldnt suprise me if he did eat a bunch of eggs because they were bad sense they had a hard time spawning.


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## YoshesMom (Mar 15, 2011)

Oh I want one if these babies I only live a few States away


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

How many left, if you had to guess?


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

*stalking


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The number of bubbles in the nest is not important. Keeping the breeding tank covered helps keep them from dispersing. I have seen the nest disappear altogether and he still raised the brood.

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

It is covered thats why I get the plastic containers they come with lids  I got tired of fighting cling wrap. 
Maybe 20 eggs I can see but there is always more then I can see so maybe 30?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

If the nest disappears altogether you can drop the water level to minimum to keep the heater safe. Just try not to disturb the nest more than you have to.

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

So far he is keepin it small but its still there... only 24 hrs max left. The other good thing is that I see no eggs on the bottom not sure if he is eating them but I doubt it.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> So far he is keepin it small but its still there... only 24 hrs max left. The other good thing is that I see no eggs on the bottom not sure if he is eating them but I doubt it.


Should be fine. I really doubt he is eating eggs unless they are not fertilized? My Big Ear HM let the unfertilized ones lay on the bottom and still did not eat them.

If he is disturbed too much he may hold many of them in his mouth to try and hide them, or move them to another location. Try to give him his space during this time. 

Jeff.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

That's a first I've seen a female with a massive top fin.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well they hatched (hatching) and I think daddy realized he needed more bubbles and now the nest is larger then ever lol. 

And normally I see them sell for like 40$ a piece but that was the price of the pair so I had to grab it.


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Good luck with the fry!! Beautiful!!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: Cant get any baby pics but there zoomin around and daddy quickly moves them back. Here is a pic of the nest now though lol


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## Animalfreak (Aug 23, 2011)

Woah O.O thats a lot of bubbles lol. I might have to try a spawning tank like yours, my mom has a lot of them in our house.


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## Animalfreak (Aug 23, 2011)

Question, how do you get light into your spawn tank or is it is sunlight?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I recommend plastic tubs, wider is better then taller but the more water volume is easier if you have never spawned before or for ease of grow out. 
The light is a desk lamp that I have that has a night light attached so that he still has light at night when I turn it off. People recommend leaving the light on but I havent had a problem with it off (however the nest shrinks and some fry can get lost). Mimicking moonlight is what I have had the best luck with.


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## Animalfreak (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks! I am gunna try it with my next spawn.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I do a similar thing. I use a room light in my fish room when they're tending. My fish room has a window to the East and glass doors to the South West so they get light from the sun from dawn until dusk. It works out pretty well.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

Love the pair! Especially the female! She is super impressive!! Can't wait to see what you get out of this!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Im hoping for some good show hms and looking into joining the ibc too
Update: the nest has filled in and now covers the tank lol got some baby images to post tonight


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## ZackyBear (Dec 1, 2011)

*stalks thread* Would happily buy a pair from this spawn~ I love the clear finned look on the female! Astonishing!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

The male is pretty small but im sure hes going tk bw growinf a bunch more. My hm marble is still growing after a month. I got him when he was three months old and he is now four months old and still growing.

The femle has long fins as well (from what i can see in the picture.) So their fry will moat likely be very longfinned. Thr only flaw i see on him is his anal fin, but that isnt too long so their fry wont all have bad anals. Nice pair.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: The nest dissolved a little and some baby images before he chased me off. Some of the fry are already free swimming  I added a few micro worms and bbs because I worry. I also fed daddy he wanted just one bloodworm lol.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

And thanks bettalover I cant wait to see them


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

You're welcome. His bubblenest is very wide. Thats perfect for fry since it would be easy for them to get themselves back up.He sounds like a very good father.


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## BettaDude (Mar 30, 2012)

are you going to raise them in this tank as well?
or is it just for spawning?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

He is being super good he leaves the free swimming fry but if one looks like need help he moves it back to the nest. And I will probably leave them for a month/ half month in there and move them to a 25 for growing.


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Happy to hear the fry are doing well!!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

This boy is an amazing daddy most of the fry are free swimming but he is still keeping up the nest. He also will pick fry up that have fallen to the bottom and put them in the java moss where it is easier for them to reach the surface its super cute XD I am going to start adding water tomorrow. I also learned not to trust the boyfriend with the micro worms I hate lumpy cultures cause the worms take forever to crawl up the sides and I have to pick worms out a few at a time


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree. He isnt a bad candidate fora breeder. Im actually surprised that he is from a pet store. Im also surprised you got the female from a breeder. Its very opposite. He looks more like a breeder boy while she seems like shes supposed to be from the pet store.

The male really has changed and gotten pretty big. Very nice thickness and fin extension that you see. He almost looks like a way different betta. You did a good job by buying him and caring for him tk get back in good health. 



lvandert said:


> lol I actually asked MrV about the same fish yesterday before I introduced them. He said he's a not bad fish from a breeder's point of view too  He's actually a pet store boy. I got him about 2-3 months ago and he was just a tiny thing, not a "baby betta" though. I got him half off because he had a fungal growth. I'll post a pic from when I first got him, you can see he's grown into quite a fish. And Popcorn is a genetic wildcard, all the breeder knew is her father, her mother must have came from a different breeder. She does have the double tail geneo along with a very light dragon scale
> 
> I have a local pet store that would love to have some offspring from the same city (save on shipping charges) so they've offered to buy any fish I cant find a home for myself. I plan on selling a few to friends and maybe keeping a couple but then it'll be out into the world. If i can even get them that far. I've had the worst luck with infertile eggs/egg eaters, and this is Dizzy's first spawn. I hope he'll be a good dada.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

how the heck did that post get here? I'm highly confused now...


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

>.> lol wut?


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

Such pretty fishes.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Creat: Sorry wrong thread. I got mixed up with the spawn logs. Being on my phone is not too easy to reply to things without a ton of mistakes. I mean just look at my first message I made. I didnt even go back through and check on my phone.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Lol its fine I understand XD


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> This boy is an amazing daddy most of the fry are free swimming but he is still keeping up the nest. He also will pick fry up that have fallen to the bottom and put them in the java moss where it is easier for them to reach the surface its super cute XD I am going to start adding water tomorrow. I also learned not to trust the boyfriend with the micro worms I hate lumpy cultures cause the worms take forever to crawl up the sides and I have to pick worms out a few at a time


There is an alternate method of harvesting mw involving coffee filter media. Put a piece of coffee filter directly on top of the culture, and place another smaller piece on top of that. when they have crawled on top of the media pull the top piece off and it will be covered in micro worms. Dip it in the water to feed, and you can put it back for more worms....

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

jeffegg2 said:


> There is an alternate method of harvesting mw involving coffee filter media. Put a piece of coffee filter directly on top of the culture, and place another smaller piece on top of that. when they have crawled on top of the media pull the top piece off and it will be covered in micro worms. Dip it in the water to feed, and you can put it back for more worms....
> 
> Jeff.


That sounds cool I might have to try that... *off to find filters*


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: Took daddy out it was him eating all my micro worms >.> I also have been slowly adding water and raising the water level plus put in my niffty homemade sponge filter  that keeps residue off the water surface.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Ah, so he was the culprit. At least you know he wasn't starving.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well daddy is a little depressed without his micro worms but the babies are doing great their all about 1 cm long now. My bbs culture crashed and I had to start a new one, so let this be a lesson why to always to have 2 different cultures running


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Old saying don't put all your egg in one basket

Bbs if you start a new batch every 24 you won't really need to do two at once
Just control the amount If egg u put in.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> Well daddy is a little depressed without his micro worms but the babies are doing great their all about 1 cm long now. My bbs culture crashed and I had to start a new one, so let this be a lesson why to always to have 2 different cultures running


I have two going and one was nearly depleted so I dumped it and filled with water added salt and pinch of baking soda, then promptly left the air off all night.:shock: When I awoke to feed, they were all dead! Well, they needed a little break from the bbs I guess. I gave them some mw, they are all ok.:roll:

Jeff.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I think it's always a good idea to mix up what they eat anyway. IMO they get a better mix of nutrients that way.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well the dog ate the new bbs culture :/ I guess the universe dosent want me to have bbs lol


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

lol I'm sorry, that does suck but thats funny.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well my dog is super retarded like that


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

lol my bird tries to get into things like that. I've had to put fake snakes around just so she wont


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Does it work? lol



lvandert said:


> lol my bird tries to get into things like that. I've had to put fake snakes around just so she wont


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

oh yeah. Snakes are natural preditors of birdies therefore the bird is always afraid. my mom used to steal mine for her handing plants (we had birds that would nest in there). She's never had the gal to get close enough to one to test it either because I do have a real snake I take out occasionally (He'd to small to think of her as a meal).


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I see that you use oak tree leaves in your spawning tank, could you please explain to me how does one go about using these leaves instead of the Indian Almond leaves. If I look at your spawning tank I see their are leaves laying on the buttom of their tank.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

keith1964 said:


> I see that you use oak tree leaves in your spawning tank, could you please explain to me how does one go about using these leaves instead of the Indian Almond leaves. If I look at your spawning tank I see their are leaves laying on the buttom of their tank.


The leaves can be used like IAL, however they are less potent I believe then IAL, so I use more of them. I float them so the male has something to build a nest under and I also, like you saw let them sink to the bottom and release their tannins naturally however you can boil them like tea to produce it quicker.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

lvandert said:


> oh yeah. Snakes are natural preditors of birdies therefore the bird is always afraid. my mom used to steal mine for her handing plants (we had birds that would nest in there). She's never had the gal to get close enough to one to test it either because I do have a real snake I take out occasionally (He'd to small to think of her as a meal).


What kind of birdie do you have?  and I am glad that my dog cant fly lol


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

I have a cockatiel, and a small one at that. lol I always forget how tiny she is until I see a full grown one in the store. I wouldn't call her special needs but she's special alright lolz


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Animals amuse me lol
Update: Im cutting out a few feedings for the next few days to cull out some weak fry. I noticed daddy didnt cull that many for me


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> Animals amuse me lol
> Update: Im cutting out a few feedings for the next few days to cull out some weak fry. I noticed daddy didnt cull that many for me


Is starvation an acceptable cull method?

Jeff.:shock:


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

For me its not starvation its reducing feeding ( instead of 4 feedings they get 2) so that only the stronger fry will search out the food. I also feed in the same spot everyday so I then move the food to a different location. I consider it a more natural method just like feeding fry to larger fish. In the wild only the strongest make it to the food. It still leaves me with small fry but thats alright with me sense they obviously were strong enough to get the food.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Creat said:


> Well daddy is a little depressed without his micro worms but the babies are doing great their all *about 1 cm long now*. My bbs culture crashed and I had to start a new one, so let this be a lesson why to always to have 2 different cultures running


How old are they? You started the log on the 1st and made this comment on the 9th..... they must be growing like crazy. 

Congrats. Keep up the great work.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

They hatched the 5/3/12 and thank you they are growing like mad it helps that it is a small spawn too maybe about 30. But I am going to breed the pair again if these turn out nice.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Do they by any chance have giant background? Thus far my regulars has never grown that fast but giant descendents can grow 1/2 cm in a few days and 1 cm in a week. The fastest I can grow regular bettas is 1cm in a month.

Still waiting for pictures .....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

That's really fast growth for fry.
My don't show any growth spur until 4 week +
Even with my giant
I cant get 1/4" in first 10 days
Want to know your secert


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Pics pls!:-D

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well they are super sneaky and are all hiding but I managed to get images of these three they seem to know when the camera is coming...


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Daddy just suddenly died I know its not part of the spawn but ugh that makes me really sad I wanted to spawn the pair again cause he was the most wonderful daddy  I have no idea how I left he was fine I come back for evening feeding of blackworms and hes floating... the only thing I can think of that was different was I found a small piece of tape in his water ... maybe the glue killed him... ugh


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry about your boy, he had really nice form. Maybe you'll get some boys out of the fry that look like him.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well know they will probably look like him only with a little better form  its always hard loosing a good fish :/


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry about your loss. I know it's hard I lose one of your prized possessions.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's hard to tell what the cause was, I've lost fish when I didn't nothing different, you never know.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

Greta pair! You should get some pretty good fry!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry about your loss. Hope you get better form in fry.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Ive had several happen like this for me as well. No idea what goes wrong but apparently something. Sorry for your loss. Hopefully you will get a better male from the spawn.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks guys it just means that I will end up keeping a male from the spawn which isnt to bad  And good news I managed to grow bbs (Yay! they lived ) and the fry just got their first feeding of them 
Edit: Also good news I have only found one dead fry so far and it looked like it had somehow attached itself to a leaf and couldnt get to the surface.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Bad news I think I found ick on some fry there are little white dots maybe 1-2 on about 6 fry there is aq salt in the water and they went through a 1/4 water change today is there anything else I can add like a smaller dose of ick treatment i have never had this problem and I am freaking out DX


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Creat said:


> Thanks guys it just means that I will end up keeping a male from the spawn which isnt to bad  And good news I managed to grow bbs (Yay! they lived ) and the fry just got their first feeding of them
> Edit: Also good news I have only found one dead fry so far and it looked like it had somehow attached itself to a leaf and couldnt get to the surface.


Another option you can try is the shell free brine shrimp if you are having issues w hatching. Then you dont have to worry about the nasty shells and the hatch faster as well. http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/Shell-Free-E-Z-Egg-c202.html After they hatch I just turn the air down a little and they live for a couple of days, altho I do have 2 going 24 hrs apart.

Just thought I would throw that out there. I got some and its soooo much easier now. What else are you feeding them? I do micro worms, bbs, kens micro crumble (at around 4 weeks I start introducing dry foods) and I also give them grindal worms when they get a little bigger.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Creat said:


> Bad news I think I found ick on some fry there are little white dots maybe 1-2 on about 6 fry there is aq salt in the water and they went through a 1/4 water change today is there anything else I can add like a smaller dose of ick treatment i have never had this problem and I am freaking out DX


Oh no! Ive never had ick before on bettas so I hope someone else out there can help you out! Idk maybe cut the reg dose into 1/4 dose? Do you have any aquarisol?

Okay so I read this online:

Raise the temperature to 85-86, but do it over 2-3 days or more or the fish could be shocked. You could ad salt, but Im not sure if you need to. The microscopic ich "tomites" will not be able to grow and take hold in 85 degree water, and the visible ones will have a slightly shorter lifespan, The temperature needs to be up for 2-3 weeks total, then lower it slowly over 2-3 days again If the ich is cured.
Adding the salt will help them build a strong stress coat so that they are less prone to ich.


Hope this helps!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I have been looking for the shell less kind  and i also do micro worms cause they are super easy and when they get bigger chopped bloodworms and what ever else i can get my hands on. And i the temp is at 80-82 being raised and there is salt in the water to prevent this :/
... i added more i also got the new maracide but i am afraid to use meds...


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

shine a light on them, are they coverd with like a dust? That is velvet, not ick.

The only cure I ever did for ick was by using a diatom filter and removing all the ick in it's free swimming stage using the filter...

All meds ever did for me was quicken their demise.

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I put in <1ml for 5 gal its recommended for full size fish 1ml per gal. Where did you get your diatom filter?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Edit: I put in <2.5ml for 5 gal its recommended for full size fish 1ml per gal I am adding through drip system. I am pretty sure it is ick I have never actually seen velvet before... but this is just little white dots not a gold dusting look. I see dots on about 1/2 of the fry when I look at them however they are not clamped and are eating normal. Where did you get your diatom filter?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

What the temp?

I use quick cure.
Seem to work out for me


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

That was years ago...

Here is one on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-PC...YUR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337213960&sr=8-1

Dang! I just ordered one. My wifes gona freak!! hehe.



Creat said:


> I put in <1ml for 5 gal its recommended for full size fish 1ml per gal. Where did you get your diatom filter?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Water temp is 80-82 degrees. 
And oh my gosh my next pay check is so going there....


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: So far no dead babies from medicine or ick, the medicine seems to be helping a little I am seeing reduced spots on them


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

That's wonderful news. I hope there won't be any more trouble with your spawn.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Same here and even though the ick hasnt gone they are still gowing on schedule and eating normal ( *crossed fingers* hope i dont jinx it )


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Go away Ick!!!

Just received that filter that i posted a link to. It is not a diatom filter, but does have a micron filter element for water scrubbing. Not sure if it will remove free swimming parasites or not, but certainly worth a try.....

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: some fry now have 6 spots on their bodies and about 1/2 of them have at least one spot  most of the bigger ones have them however most of the smaller ones dont. I went through one round of maracide on half dose so I will start again and do a full strength dose. They get 1/4 water changes every other day have salt temps at 82* F any ideas would be greatly appreciated :/


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Aww, poor babies. I hope the mere work.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Here is some good information on Ick. :

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2160&aid=2421

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I am thinking of removing the non infested fry into a different tank also being treated see if it helps get it under control...


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## checkerzelda (Oct 15, 2011)

Sorry to hear that. Maybe you can try separating your fry into a few batches in smaller containers according to their suspected level of infection and medicate them accordingly. Chances of some surviving will be much higher. That's what I was advised to do when my first spawn was hit with some bacterial infection at 3 weeks.. Wish you all the best. 

I usually take precautions against ich by putting two or three drops of methylene blue on top of a healthy dose of aquarium salt before introducing my pair. Ich didn't get me, but ironically, a bacterial infection did.. ._.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah i sadly can only split them three ways but yeah i agree it will probably help raise survival. I am worried about changing their water and shocking them but i guess i can set up mini drip systems for them. I always add salt to spawning tanks but have never been able to get my hands on methylene blue. Well i guess i will pick up more heaters at work today lol.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I like to add a few drops of Coppersafe to my aquarium water to deter ick(don't use coppersafe if you have inverts). I'm not sure wheter or not it's bad for fry the excess copper but it could help punch out the ick with a salt combo. Also, I have to order my methylene blue online. I have yet to see it in any shop, even the aquatics only stores around me. 

Anyways, I hope your fry pull through and thrive!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I know coppersafe is stronger and not recommend for fry for that reason but if this second round of maracide doesnt work i will try it . And thanks for the tip on methylene blue


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: after giving the full dose yesterday morning I am happy to report I can no longer spot any ick spots nor can I find any dead fry. I think building up their tolerance when I gave the round of smaller doses and then giving the ick a good one two kocked it out but the fry were used to it enough. I will still dose the tank for the next 2 doses in full force to make sure it is gone for good but so far good news. Also I think it might have something to do with the new Maracide. They have this new thing called BioSpheres that supposedly treats the fish and not just the water now allowing you to give less quantities of meds in the tank. Also I managed to pick up a yellow hmpk yesterday not completely perfect but not bad either so if I ever want to breed my yellow girl again I have someone to cross her with.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Spoke to soon I rummaged around and found some with one spot and one big one still has 6 on him but overall there is an improvement, I will take this victory


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

lol triple post... 
Pictures some of the little ones came to the surface today  The bigger ones are above 1.5 cm and the rest are staying about 1cm long. Not sure why they shot up growing so fast :/ but I am happy they did.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Im happy to hear they are slowly getting better.  Cant wait to see what they look like as they get bigger.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

the slower they grow, they longer the live  read that from a IBC thingy XP


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks guys I am happy too XD Im protective of my babies. And betta lover1507 I like that XP


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

betta lover1507 said:


> the slower they grow, they longer the live  read that from a IBC thingy XP


Thats good to know bc mine also grow slowly.:lol:


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm so glad your fry have responded to treatment. That is fantastic news!
If that happened to me, I'd be afraid to medicate them, but again if I didn't, they'd die for sure.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I am starting to see little dorsals XD so freakin cute its probably my favorite part of them growing.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Anything new?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Nothing new besides happy growing babies  their all growin just fine except for one little runt that I see occasionally. Their getting the last dose of their medicine today I only see one dot of ick on one baby


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Awesome! Any idea how many you have?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Still guessing around 20-30 small spawn... but I am moving them to a grow out in a week so then I will be able to count them


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## bettasusa (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm just now starting to catch up again on things here and thankful I found this thread! The parents are amazing and I can't wait to see the babies! I'm hoping to reserve one of the resulting males. Good luck with them, lui


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thank you lui
Well i moved them early so that I can give them cleaner water turns out there was maybe 3 gals instead of 5 however the babies all survived the move.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Spoke to soon i found 2 dead and a few look none to good also some of the fry have red dots on them which makes me worry they got banged up in the move....


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh no!  Well I hope they get better for you. I spawn mine in a 10 gallon filled half way w a sponge filter & heater. I slowly raise the water level until its full. My bettas stay in the 10 for about 6-8 weeks, that way I dont have to move them at all until they are older. Im scared I will do something and mess up the whole thing. lol


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

bettasusa~ I have females that look just like your male Julius. I love them!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I may have freaked out after I found those 2 dead however this morning we all are still alive yay thanks for being patient with me guys so here are some pics of the babies moved into their container. Overall I have had 4 die total out of about 30 good numbers at least to me for a first time pair spawn.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh wow they are so cute!! Make sure you save a pair for me!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Ha ha will do after their turbulent move they seem happier with more space


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: I found one more dead fry and a few clampy ones so I tested my water and I am not happy... the tank ammonia is at .1 ppm and the nitrate at <20ppm the most troubling thing though is the water pH is at freaking 8.2 not bad considering I have to use a saltwater pH kit to test my tap water :/ but still bad I decided to move a natural wood log from another tank to it. The wood helps as normally its in my tanks to keep the water pH near 7.4 but the tank that it came from had high nitrate levels and I am afraid for the fry I will add more water to the tank tonight and hope it helps...


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Best of luck. 30 fry is really good for a first spawn. My first spawn had 4 that survived to adulthood.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> Update: I found one more dead fry and a few clampy ones so I tested my water and I am not happy... the tank ammonia is at .1 ppm and the nitrate at <20ppm the most troubling thing though is the water pH is at freaking 8.2 not bad considering I have to use a saltwater pH kit to test my tap water :/ but still bad I decided to move a natural wood log from another tank to it. The wood helps as normally its in my tanks to keep the water pH near 7.4 but the tank that it came from had high nitrate levels and I am afraid for the fry I will add more water to the tank tonight and hope it helps...


My IAL take my tanks from 7.5 down to 6.

Jeff.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

any updates?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well the log helped but they are still lethargic. I am loosing about 1 a day I am maybe down to 15 fry. They look like they have over eatten and bloated... I added epsom salt and it helped a little also havent fed them in 24 hrs.... I am sad now...


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh man that is soooo sad!!  Im sorry for you. I hope things start to look up soon and the remaining fry survive. 

I remember the daddy passed but dont remember if you still have the mama?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I know plus they stopped growing which i dont understand sense rhey get 50% water changes everyday.... and yeah i still got mommy she is the better lookin one anyway


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Was hoping to read that everything was fine....


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I dont know what it is but after a cm and before they get an inch long I always seem to loose more then half of them  Good news is many of them are starting to get better I cut their feedings down to 1 and started with epsom salt instead of aq salt heres hoping that might help. I hear a diet of micro worms can lead to swd I really hope that its not the case.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Just pulled out another dead one :/ here are some pics they all look about the same they get clampy then they cant get off the bottom and in about a day they are dead. They all get this red dot/s on their bottoms that become more visible when they die. Any ideas?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Might have been the exposure to ammonia that knocked them off. I had the same thing happen in my killifish grow-out. Lost everyone except my biggest because my ammonia was hovering around 0.25ppm even with daily 50% water changes.

With fry, it could also be velvet or a bacterial infection. 

It's sad to have something like this happen when so much effort has already been put in.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I thought about ammonia but it never goes over .1 which would account for the smaller ones dying but I lost the biggest and the smallest the medium ones are fine :/ And at first I thought the ick came back but they are clear of anything outside of them...


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear your babies aren't doing well Creat! Little red dots on their bellies before they die....hmmm. Do you think it could be a internal bacterial infection? I'm just pondering on that thought because of the red bellies and the clamped fins with no visible external symptoms. If so, isn't metronidazole good for mixing with food for treating for anaerobic bacterial infections, it also clears quickly with carbon filters and has no impact on the bacterial bed. 

I don't know if this helps any but I hope the rest of your babies pull through!

Best Wishes,
Sincerely


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

If you have a spare tank/jar (1g for 15 will temporarily do) move them. Don't use anything from their original tank. Then clean their tank thoroughly - medicate or what ever you feel needs to be done. Keep it dry for a day or two, if possible under direct sun. Refill but leave it for another day. then move everyone back in.

Not growing is an indication of health issues, regardless of water change and feedings. And since they're dieing one by one, it's safer to assume that there's some kind of parasite in their tank.

Good luck.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it sounds like an internal infection... 
and indjo should I keep the water too or net them and move them out ?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

They look big enough to be netted. I'd rather not use old water because it contains something harmful to fry. Cupping them may also move parasites.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Any good news? My power has been out (huge wind storm came thru on monday night) so havent been able to keep up. Hope things are looking up on your end!


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

bump.. update?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Sorry didnt want to jinx it they all seem okay. No idea how many are left and i dont want to count, for fear of jinxing it lol. Its kind sad my multi spawn born right after them is doing just fine no idea why.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Woooohooo glad to hear they are doing better!! Cant wait to see what your 2 spawns look like.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

A+^


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I am slow growing the multi's I think thats where I went wrong on the yellows. I have never had luck growing my babies fast :/ *crossing fingers* I dont want any more problems.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: So I think I figured out what was wrong. I believe it was my pH after losing those fry and some adults I found that my pH fluctuation was beating my fish up. I live on a aquifer that happens to fluctuate between 6.9-8.4 I am surprised that some fry lived through that. Good news is that the remainder of the spawn looks like their doin good and growing and I should have some pics soon.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Sounds like the toughest fry survived. How do you plan on keeping the PH from fluctuating so much?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Until they reach adult size I am buying bottled water the pH is constant 6.6 bottled nice and soft too. I am watching the pH to just to use when it does drop but whenever it rains, and it is spring, my pH flies back up to above 8 :/ other great ( not really) thing about my tap water it buffers water really well so it takes forever for the pH to go back to normal.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

An easier way to do it is: I have a 50 gallon plastic trash can that I age water in. I heat it with a 200W submersible heater and condition with Aqua-safe and IAL. You can adjust your ph while the water is aging and save shocking the fish.

For changing water in jars it is pretty simple. fill jar with aged pre-heated water, scoop Betta into new water, dump old water, rinse well in sink, refill, repeat.

I set the heater to whatever the Betta's jar temp is.

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I noticed that one baby has a deformed eye but so far it isnt hindering him/her


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh they are so cute!! Im sure the one with the eye problem will be fine and it wont bother him.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Two more have perished gah......... the cute little one with the eye problem is going dont want to jinx it though


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Pulled one out today I think he is going to be a male he is the largest and the meanest but he has an extra scale on his gill plate making it hard for him to close his gills all the way. I do hope its not genetic anyone else know? Other then that he is a yellow salamander all the way pics will come soon hopefully.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Cool! how many do you have left?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

5 total . One I pulled is a boy the second largest also is starting to act like a boy, two average sized and one runt.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

3/5 got pictures of there still so light the camera cant focus properly. The runt was moved into the bigger tank with another spawn hopefully to grow more


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I love watching them color up. That has to be my favorite part of watching a spawn grow up.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I have never had yellow before (at least not all yellow) so I am kinda surprised they show it this small. I am sad though that the male (first 3 pics) has a weird gill plate he looks like he is going to grow up nice and clean.


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## tanseattle (Jun 28, 2012)

tpocicat said:


> I love watching them color up. That has to be my favorite part of watching a spawn grow up.


Yes, me too. I love watch them growing and coloring


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## tanseattle (Jun 28, 2012)

Creat said:


> I am slow growing the multi's I think thats where I went wrong on the yellows. I have never had luck growing my babies fast :/ *crossing fingers* I dont want any more problems.


When I was in Vietnam, it took me 10 tries to get my fry ok from baby to adult betta. I have not breed for 32 years. I am about to go back to breed again in the US, which will be more difficult here than VN.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I am from the seattle area originally the hard part was temp for me the nice part was the high liw pressure fluctuations that happened offten to induce spawning. I bet you will do fine


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Creat said:


> I have never had yellow before (at least not all yellow) so I am kinda surprised they show it this small. I am sad though that the male (first 3 pics) has a weird gill plate he looks like he is going to grow up nice and clean.


Dont give up... I've had what I though was a tank full of multis give me a couple of almost cellos. That darn marble gene can really sneak up on you.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Ha ha sneaky marbles I hope he grows out of this gill plate so far he seems like he is going to be good lookin


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hope they all make it so you could do F2 - F4 and have more like daddy.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

indjo: me too, I would really like to get a good line going with them. If I can find another male to cross the female it would be wonderful but so far no yellow salamander males anywhere.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I could imagine - yellow salamander .... you'd need to suppress the red so yellow can appear. Should be rather rare.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Do you think crossing the mother and red salamander and back to the mother could produce yellow? I was thinking that it might be worth a shot.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

I cant wait until they get bigger and can be sexed!!!  Im still droolin!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Me too! The boy I took out I really am sure he is a male. He has turned darker yellow and now makes little fake flares


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

aww how cute!


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Have you considered using a mustard gas to breed to the female? They're quite similar to the yellow salamander.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I havent. I thought the mustard would overturn the salamander white trim. But maybe I could breed back to get it though in not sure on genetics. I would also have to find a mustard gas male.


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## VictorP (Jun 5, 2012)

tanseattle said:


> When I was in Vietnam, it took me 10 tries to get my fry ok from baby to adult betta. I have not breed for 32 years. I am about to go back to breed again in the US, which will be more difficult here than VN.


I bred betta in Vietnam as well! Although, they were fighters. My dad also bred a champion bloodline back when he lived in Thu Thiem.


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## Yandry (Jun 28, 2012)

Biggest nest ive ever seen, O_O.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I know one if the craziest nests I have ever seen. 

Update: The babies are doing good the smallest fry is happy with my multi spawn he looks better and growing  I am thinking if I get a good sibling pair from this spawn I might spawn them then sell them . I know a lot of people were interested in fry but sense I only got 5 (due to personal mistakes which I am sorry for) might end up keeping most spawn then sell them at a lower price at 8 or 9 months after I attempt to spawn them. I would rather keep the line going and have people wait for either the next batch or older betta then sell them off.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

That's what I'd do in your position. I was lucky with my last spawn, I have 2 males I'm keeping along with at least 4 females. The others I'm selling a little at a time so that I don't get overwhelmed.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I may have gotten super lucky another large fry is starting to exhibit male tendencies. Crossing fingers its not just a mean female


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Woot Woot! YAY! Maybe one for me!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

If not I can always give them to you after spawning them


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Hey thats sounds good too! By then I should have my barracks up and going.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I do want some babies from these babies but I have to cross them back because they look like they lost their purple bodies.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh yeah could be! Did you get that MG from mnbettashop?  I want to see a pic!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I emailed them but havent heard back  Its been 3 days but I did send the significant other to do it so no telling the good news is they carry 4 similar males so if I dont get that one in particular it wont kill me.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

CALL THEM! Ive had to do that a few times when I havent heard from them. They could all be gone, their fish tend to go fast sometimes. Did you check for the next shipment to come in? Its probably next tuesday. BUT if you dont get any from this batch he usually has some nice MG. My avi pic is a male I bought from them.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I shall do that! I know I dont wana have to spend 40$ for overpriced overseas ones. I didnt see any mg from the last batch but maybe there being sneaky. You avi male is gorgeous.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Got a hold of mn bettashop got the fish set aside 

Baby update! Wish I hadn't packed my camera yet they are turning a nice yellow color. They have been transitioning to frozen bbs and doing well.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Them? lol how many did you get?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

3... new ordered .....  I only wanted one then the man ordered 2 more lol


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

lol i love mg!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update: All 5 survived the move! A little growth stunt but everyone was just fine. A bigger fry managed to down a black worm yesterday evening at feeding little buggers are getting big.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Lost the smaller runt baby, I hope it wasnt the only female... they are growing slowly but I dont want to rush them. Still getting a varied diet and moved onto freeze dried and frozen completely.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I would love to see some pics of your fry.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Ditto!


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## GreyHounD (May 11, 2012)

Such a beautiful pair!
thumbs up!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Ha ha aright here we go  three out of four one of them is very shy and I cant get a nice clear pic


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

oooh I love them!!!!!


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## Sceven (May 22, 2012)

They are stunning! Are all of the babies spoken for? If not I might have to buy a tank and then ask for forgiveness from the hubby.


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## Sceven (May 22, 2012)

Sceven said:


> They are stunning! Are all of the babies spoken for? If not I might have to buy a tank and then ask for forgiveness from the hubby.


Oh, I just saw that there are only four, how sad. I would wait for generations though.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Some of them I will sell after breeding and one male has a gill plate but is fine overall. So you could bug me after a while and get one if you want.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

They are soooo cute!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks everyone  I am looking for a nice way to carry on the line if I get siblings I will spawn them back together. I have a yellow salamander hmpk and the chocolate timberland sent me, very pretty, and ordered a yellow female mustard and a all yellow female. Some variation of these should produce more fry lol


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## CandiceMM (Jul 15, 2012)

Seriously beautiful!!


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## Talen (Sep 6, 2012)

Cute little ones


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Thank you guys  They are all doing strong and are very vibrant I added fancy guppy food into the mix they love it which is great means it will be easy to move them onto pellets when the time comes. For now their diet is super varied. Has anyone ever fed Hikashi Super Growth I think its called....


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

i still want one!!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Got my two new girls will post pics. Cant wait to get a back up line going  
Timberland - totally will share them  You are so helpful still loving the dragon females will send some pics of them in the 75 gal when it grows in more.


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## Timberland (Jan 30, 2012)

Cool! I do have some yellows w a purple or blue tint to their sides, they are from my MG/Choc sibs I showed you. they are only 6-7 weeks old I think but they will be gorgeous!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh I hope you post pics soon! Might need some  lol not that I NEED more. I am excited as soon as the males get big enough I am definitely mixing in ur choc girl for for some color so far the y are all a light pineapple. Then to my new solid yellow girl and see if I can breed out body color all together except the white trim.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Update with pics! There are 4 healthy fat babies all are doing awesome and I dont wana jinx it! First one is the largest and I think he is male his salamander white is coming in nicely with some good body color. Has a little wonky gill though  The second one I also think is a male who is slightly smaller and the pic dosent show but has lots of dark purple coming in all over it goes into his anal and caudal fin however... Third one is the one with the gill plate( still not sure though) he is rather funny little guy and is about the same size as the largest one  He wasnt to happy that he had to stay in the cup right now for a water change. The last one I think (and hope) is a girl, she has the brightest yellow not much salamander though but lots of rays already. Water changes everyday and moved them onto my desk so I can guard them lol  Sorry for the awkward pics lol and sideways one still fixing my normal computer ...


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