# I Just Don't Understand ... Any Advice???



## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello everybody,

Just wondering if you all can help me with Anthony; I came back from 2 weeks away and it looks like he has lost his tail fin. It looks like a little stump, that's all that is left. 

So, I am assuming it is a bad case of tail rot so I am treating him with AQ salt bath, it's only his second day. This is baffling to me because I am religious about his care and provide good food and fresh warm water. I am scared it will advance into body rot, you know? It may even be there and I just can't see it.

So, I need some help .... should I give him some different medication here?? His last bout was a while ago but it didn't look this serious. My husband was watching him when I was away and I guess he didn't notice his fin dissolving ... it's black along the edges in some spots. He's a friendly little fella so I'd like to keep him around a while longer!!! Is Anthony going to die??





Housing 
What size is your tank? 16g
What temperature is your tank? 80F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes 
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 3 Pygmy corydoras

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? NLS pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice per day, fasting on Sunday

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 25% midweek PWC, big cleaning 1x week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25% PWC, 75% big cleaning
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime, API Stresscoat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? All WNL, water is very hard and contributes to his fins curling

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His tail fin has almost disappeared
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He hides a lot in his Betta log
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Sunday, back from holiday
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Sunday, in AQ salt hospital tank
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Yes, he had slight case of fin rot a while back; bloating once when he ate Crusty the shrimp months ago
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1.5 years


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## Sapphoira (Jul 16, 2012)

Well that does sound pretty severe, and I'm sure someone more experienced with fin rot will chime in as well - but I think you are probably doing the right thing with the aquarium salt treatment. Make sure to keep the water clean and warm, and maybe put him in a hospital tank so you can monitor him more closely! I've also heard that feeding them a higher protein diet when fin rot sets in helps, like freeze dried blood worms and if you have access to mosquito larvae that would be great too.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_Hello and Welcome your fishy has tankmates, would they fin nip..sounds like fin nipped or tail biting, maybe he took out a chunk on his own..if you are seeing the black at the edges, it could be fin rot, but as long as you treat with clean, warm water, and only 1tsp of Aq salt per gallon, for 6-7 days, in a QT tank..I think would be the best option.._

_however, If you __can you post a pic to make sure it is fin rot..sometimes it may not be, and you don't want to treat for something your not sure of..a pic would help~_


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi!

@ Sapphoira Thanks for the reply, I have him in his QT hospital tank sitting on the sand bottom in his big 16g tank. I drained the water low enough to make this work. The pygmies are in the big tank water and Anthony is in his own tank with a tank. lol That way they can share the heater and stay nice and warm. I am doing 100% water changes. I actually do have some bloodworms I can give him so I will do that.

@lelei Thanks for the answer, his tankmates are three tiny pygmy corys and they would never nip or attack Anthony. Anthony actually tries to chase them sometimes but of course he is like a lumbering giant relatively and never even comes close to the speedy corys. I don't think Anthony can even reach the spot that has disappeared as he is rather, er, portly. I will try to post a closeup pic of poor Anthony.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

IMG]http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=2895&pictureid=27884[/IMG]


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

*Anthonys Tail*

Try #2


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

I guess it's really hard to see but it's that flat section with the black edge - it's a huge piece! Oh and I did add IAL to the quarantine tank.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

I just noticed that with my long finned VT..and it was freyed looking from the filter..but the IAL and warm clean water will heal it up in no time..my fishy is alteady healed and it was about a week ago


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

If it were me, I would run out and buy some Furan-2 and/or Kanaplex (they can be used together to smack severe quick-moving fin/body rot, etc) just in case of a nasty bacterial infection that moves fast and doesn't respond to salt. 

You may not need to use it. But to me, two weeks is a very short time for a fish to lose his entire tail in, especially as it's 16 gallon and filtered, tankmates are peaceful and you keep the tank pretty clean as a whole. I mean, ammonia builds up quick - tankmates help there - BUT it just seems odd to me indeed that his tail's degraded like that so very quickly.

That's why I'd be concerned about a fast-moving bacteria and have the antibiotic 'cavalry' on call just in case.. 

Hopefully it's not that bad and salt will help slow or stop the rot, and then it's a matter of healing.. heavy on the IAL, lots of clean water. 

But yeah. I'd have the meds handy in case.


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## randy84 (Aug 11, 2012)

I haved used dried bannanna leaves for quick results I boil them into a tea let the water cool and add leaves and tea to water helps with healing process ant its also like an antibiotic. but dont forget the aquarium salt it is a must.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

@ Aus 
Hi! You know, I just have a bad feeling about this, all I have on hand here in the house is API Fungus Cure or Maracyn. Can I use one of these???


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

*New Photos of Anthony's Tail - Urgent*

Hi,

This is what my poor fishy looks like, anyone know what has happened and it AQ salt QT tank is the way to go???

I'm getting desperate here!!


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## randy84 (Aug 11, 2012)

Common Name: Fin Rot
Scientific Name: Aeromonas sp. or Pseudomonas sp.
Description: gram-negative rod bacteria
Symptoms: loss of fin tissue, black or bloody fin tips
Cause: poor water conditions, exposure to toxins
Medications: Mardel’s Maracyn-Two, Aquatronics’ Kanacyn
Ingredients: Minocycline, Kanamiacyn
Notes: Can be mild or severe, may require medication
The difference between fin loss and fin rot are not always obvious but there is, indeed, a difference. Generally, we distinguish between the two based on its cause.
Fin loss is caused by physical damage incurred by sharp tank decorations, snagged fins, or nipping from other fish. It happens when something actually tears the fin tissue.
Fin rot is the result of a bacterial infection, which leaves the fins tattered, bloody or blackened. Entire portions of the fins may fall off or go missing in the tank. The reason we distinguish between the two is because the treatment for each can be quite different.

Fin rot is a gram-negative bacterial infection usually caused by poor water conditions. It is probably the number one most common betta ailment and chances are if you own bettas you will eventually deal with fin rot. Fin rot is most common in uncycled tanks where bettas are exposed to ammonia or nitrite. It can be caused by elevated nitrate levels in cycled tanks and may be caused by fluctuating temperatures and pH levels as well. Essentially, these toxins or fluctuations stress the betta, weakening his immune system, leaving him susceptible to bacterial infections.
The most common signs of fin rot are a rapid loss of fin tissue, bloody fin tips or blackened fin edges. In darker colored bettas these symptoms may be difficult to spot. Upon speculation of fin rot you should immediately check your water parameters to determine the origin. Successfully curing fin rot is dependent on fixing the cause. Check for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph and temperature. The ammonia and nitrite levels should be at 0 ppm [parts per million] and nitrate should be under 20 ppm, maximum. The pH levels and water temperature should be stable with little or no fluctuation from the days before. Remember, toxins like ammonia and nitrite become exponentially more significant in alkaline water [pH above 7.0] and thus much more dangerous and likely to stress your betta. This doesn’t mean you have to bring the pH down. Drastically adjusting the pH could cause more stress. It’s far better to leave the pH stable and to maintain little or no toxins in the water instead. While your betta has fin rot, it is helpful to increase the frequency of your water changes and add ammonia or nitrite neutralizers, like Kordon’s AmQuel-Plus, if necessary.
If the fin rot is not severe, meaning there is still more then 1/2 of the fin left, then usually clean water and careful observation will due as treatment. It’s crucial that the betta not be exposed to any toxins while healing from the disease. New fin growth is very fragile and it’s not uncommon to have several relapses after healing begins. You may also notice the fins grow back slightly curled. While this doesn’t always occur it is normal and in no way hurts the fish.

Bacterial Fin Rot in Betta Fish
If you suspect the fin rot is severe the betta may need your help to recover through use of medication and clean water. Because fin rot is bacterial in nature you will need a gram-negative antibiotic. I recommend Mardel’s Maracyn-Two [Minocycline] or if quite severe you may want to use Kanacyn [Kanamiacyn] or an equivalent wide spectrum antibiotic. As mentioned before, all the antibiotics in the world won’t cure your betta if the cause is not corrected. Be sure to test your water and make any changes as necessary. [read more about preparing tank water for betta fish]
Use caution when selecting a medication for your betta. Avoid any herbal tonics or remedies that contain Melaleuca like Melafix or Bettafix. These medications are mostly antiseptics and may help fin regeneration after the bacterial infection has cleared but will do little to help initially. If your betta is sick enough to need a real antibiotic then give him one.

Antibiotic resistance is a problem facing aquarists all over the world. This occurs when bacteria evolve to make newer, stronger strains that cannot be combated by available antibiotics. To avoid creating tougher strains of bacteria be sure to carefully follow the directions on the medicine package and to never stop or change medications part way through treatment unless your betta is having a dangerous reaction to them. As with any disease, remove your sick fish from the community tank and isolate him for treatment in a hospital tank. Never medicate healthy fish.

Common Name: Fin Loss
Scientific Name: none
Description: physical damage
Symptoms: split fins or pin holes
Cause: sharp tank decor, snagging, strong filter intake, fin-nippy fish
Medications: none Ingredients: none
Notes: Can be mild or severe, can be fixed by removing the danger and clean water- May be confused with fin rot

Split Fin in Betta Fish
Fin loss is usually easy to avoid and easy to fix. It can be avoided by checking all tank décor before adding it to the aquarium. Because betta fins are so fragile, they easily snag on plastic plants or sharp rocks or driftwood. An easy test can be done to avoid sharp objects. Simply run a pair of women’s pantyhose or nylons over the tank décor. If the nylons don’t snag or rip, they will be suitable for a betta tank. In many cases, the object can be filed down or sharp parts can be removed. Often plastic plants will cause fin loss so you may find better luck with silk or most live plants instead.
Of course, it’s best to not add fin-nipping fish to your tank. Bettas become easy pray for quicker swimming and aggressive fish. Barbs and most tetras should be avoided in your betta tank. If you notice a fish nipping your betta you should remove the fish or the bettas as soon as possible because nipped fins can become infected and treatment could become more complicated.
Betta fin tissue can heal quickly and most mild to moderate spits or holes can heal themselves without use of any medications or tank additives. It is prudent to keep your tank water clean when these minor injuries occur so as not to allow infections to develop.
Christie F is a Betta splendens hobbyist that enjoys spending time caring for her fish and helping new betta keepers learn the ropes. More posts by: Christie F.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

AQ salt is the better way to go, check on the Maracyn and see if it's good for fin rot, but try the salt for a few days, and see if it makes a difference, with that much tail gone, I hope it will grow back, and I am sure it will take a while, but with clean warm water, with the salt treatment you should see some improvement in about 4-7 days..and If you are using the IAL keep doing that as well, in the QT..I send my well wishes for your lil guy..


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Also If you have Stress Coat, I used that for my rescues, and their fins, and they both have been a sucess with this combo of treatment..


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi,
It's what I can't understand is that I'm very careful with the water changes and all, and he still gets something horrible. Does anyone know if it can be related to that horrid blue-green algae?? I think I have it in my tank, and I thought I was winning the war.


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## randy84 (Aug 11, 2012)

it could be I would wash the tank with bleach and rinse with the hottest water you can stand. make sure you rinse until there is no trace of bleach or its smell and then air dry it. then set back up .I always add aquarium salt to my tanks after cleaning.all my fish are in heated tanks. being stressed and also being cold can start fungal infections from what I have read so I dont take the chance.Hope all works out for him


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey GG- yeah, as I said, it sounds a bit strange to me. 

And the way his tail is just kind of 'chopped off' looking.. that's some pretty vicious rot happening right there, if it didn't start with mechanical injury (filter intake, sharp plants, etc). 

Maracyn 1 is, as I understand it, used for gram positive bacteria like strep, whereas Maracyn 2 is for gram negative (which is mostly what causes fin rot). 

Fungus Cure, I think, is for "fungus" AKA columnaris - which is a gram neg bacteria, not a true fungus - a major cause of fin rot. Not sure if it will smack aeromanus up as well, might be a good idea to Google that. But to me it seems like a better bet than the Maracyn - both Maracyns are supposed to really help mild disease, but stronger antibiotic is recommended for rapid/severe cases... and Maracyn 1 won't helkp with gram neg bacteria.

So yeah, if it's still advancing after a few days in salt, try a course of Fungus Cure. If there's no substantial improvement by the end of that, or he appears to be getting sicker, I'd see about locating Furan-2 and/or Kanaplex, which are some stronger antibiotics recommended specifically for severe rot.

I'd not wait more than a few days to see improvement with the AQ salt - it's just too close to his body for comfort, IMO.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Looking better?

I took this one today just a few minutes ago. He is still in his QT AQ tank with IAL. 100% water change every day. 

I'm kind of leaning toward a mechanical injury because his other fins seems OK or can fin rot happen in one spot like that? At any rate it looks like his in for a long recovery. If he is not markedly healing by Friday (?) I will find some Kanaplex and get to it. Does anyone think that lump is an abscess? It's rather scary looking isn't it. I'm getting pretty depressed over all this mess!!!


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

I kinda know how you feel..i just invested in 8 male fancy tail guppys...i have 3 left and one of those 3 is on his last leg...unfortunately they have a bacterial fungus eating them by the minute...the tank is treated but it didnt help...Ive lost all my guppies quickly...last night the last three guppies were in good shape, woke up this AM and one of the guppies had half a tail left...tonight whats left is flaking off and all black...so fast! I couldnt even imagine what they have?? im not sure if ur guy has fin rot or not, but ive had good lucky pulling my adopted bettas who i took in on their last leg out of fin rot...they were never 100% but they did live about 6 months longer with better outlooks, color and appetites so im sure youll be able to pull him out if it! Sounds like ur doing a great job, keep it up


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't blame you! It certainly looks nasty enough - how's your fish doing? Is he acting ill now?

I don't think this was rapid rot in just that one place - more likely a mechanical injury, yup. I'd get the antibiotic just in case of secondary infection (I like to keep some around.. you just never know.. ). I am very glad he's doing better with just IAL. Keep at it, maybe add a little AQ salt at 1 tsp per gallon to help stave off infection and see how he does in a few days. 

Poor fish. >< I feel bad for him, from 10,000 miles away. lol.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi there,

No he isn't acting sick; in fact he made a small bubble nest in his hospital tank, and he is eating his NLS pellets OK. He is just hanging out in his QT tank with AQ salt and IAL. I'm thinking that salt water must sting but I guess the benefit outweighs that. I can't really think of how he got that way. His filter has a sponge baffle and there's really nothing else he can get in trouble in other than his floating betta log. Perhaps he got caught in between it and the side wall of the tank or something. There is no way for my cat Patches to reach him in the big tank has a cover, light, etc, on top. Having 2 hospital tanks is making it so much easier because I get a fresh one ready and then move him over at the right time and clean out the first tank ready for the next time. It's an awful looking thing and my heart almost stopped when I first saw it, that's for sure.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

So glad to hear he is doing better..he may have bitten a good chunk out..but as soon as his tail starts growing back watch how he behaves with it..


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for all your input and positive vibes! This is a photo of what Anthony's tail looks like today after 5 days in his QT tank with AQ salt and IAL.

Does it look any better to you?? Should I continue on with the same treatment? He looks happy enough in there too so I wouldn't feel too badly about leaving him in there for at least 10 days.

Thanks alot!!!!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Umm, yes that is a cat nose in the background - it is Duff who is so fascinated with Anthony and totally passive toward him! lol


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Omg,..if you didn't point that out,,I would of missed it..lol..wow..too cute..love that pic..but for your fishy..yes he needs about another 3 days treatment, I know how hard it is, but it is sooo worth it, when you see a lot of growth...so keep up the good work, he looks well..and in maybe 3or 4 days he should be much better..Keep us posted..I wish your fishy well..glad to see his is doing better..Love yur kitty


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

We definitely have some rot here. I can see the necrosis in these pics, more so than I could in the other pic I saw. At this point, I would agree with Aus about trying Kanaplex/Furan-2 combo, since parts of the rot are creeping too close to his body for comfort. 

Kanaplex can be pretty hard to find in-store and most often has to be ordered online. I recommend www.drsfostersmith.com, as the shipping is fairly reasonable (you can combine products from different pet categories so if you want to get cat treats or something for Duff, you can ;-) ). API Furan-2 is much easier to find, at most Petsmarts. You can start with Furan-2 and see how it goes and if he doesn't show any progress with just that, get the Kanaplex.

In the meantime, Fungus Cure won't do anything. As Aus said, the condition it's meant to treat, columnaris, isn't even a fungus, it's a bacterial infection. To the best of my knowledge, Fungus Cure won't even treat the one true fungus that bettas do get, saprolegnia. As for Maracyn . . . best to wait for Furan-2. Both Maracyn meds are not very effective medications anymore, as they have been used so often that many bacteria have developed a resistance to it. In addition, it is not effective in waters with high pH. It can potentially become quite toxic if used after its expiration date or if a mixture is premade before use.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

it dosen't look any better but it also dosen't look like it has gotten worse either. I would go with what sakura said and use some meds. I have to get most of mine online as petco does not sell anything useful. You can try amazon or ebay and see which is cheaper. I think I would continue with the salt till the meds arrived though. However, once you stop the rot, his fins will grow back. I also have a blue CT and when I got him - almost all of this top fin and tail fin were rotted away.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aquabid also has some meds that are cheap, although who knows how old they are.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello everyone,

So this morning he is the same, hanging out in his tank-within-a-tank setup. Wasn't too interested in his NLS pellets at breakfast. 

Today I am going out to get the meds mentioned above and give that a try. I'm sure it would say in the instructions but just so there is no confusion would I add the meds into the salt bath too?? Or just Prime and the meds? 

ha ha I know Duff looks like he means business but really he is a big marshmallow at heart. I know, he is a marshmallow with nails! See attached pic, it's funny!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi again,

This is Anthony this morning after his water change and fresh IAL.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Yayy..that is fin growth..I am soo glad to see his tail is starting to grow back..that is great news..will take some time..but keep up the good work..I am very happy for him


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'd stop the AQ salt while treating with the meds, just to be on the safe side. I know all those meds can be mixed with epsom salts but I don't think they can mix with AQ salt.

Duff is a cutie!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

I was able to get the API Furan-2 but they were out of the SeaChem Kanaplex. They will have some on Friday. So, I will start with this medicine tonight! Wish me luck! 

Oh, and Duffie is so funny because the moment I start talking to Anthony, he runs over and wants to be included in the conversation! I think Duff thinks Anthony is "his" fish! lol


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi,

I don't want to come off as totally helpless but the package says 1 - 85 mg package of medicine per 10 gallons. Anthony's QT tank is .5 gallon. Can I confirm with more experienced people, what amount would be proper to add into his tank? I came up with 4.25mg??? Hard to measure that???


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's really interesting how some cats do bond a little with fish and don't necessarily have predatory instincts. None of my 8 cats bother my fish except for occasionally clawing at the glass. 

Good luck! Go Anthony, you can do it!

EDIT: Ah, the fun of meds dosed for 10gal.

You will need two 1 gal containers. Fill one with 1 gal of dechlorinated water and set aside. Fill the other with 5 cups of dechlorinated water and add in the first dosage (usually 1 packet). Mix well. Now pour 1/2 cup of the medicated water into the other container. Fill Anthony's tank with that. You'll need to repeat this every day for the duration of the treatment. Not 100% sure but I think you can save the medicated water for a day and use it once again before having to make up a new mixture.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

OK, great, tonight is the big mixing!! I never would have figured to do it that way, that's for certain!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

A veterinary student friend told me those instructions or I never would've figured it out either.  I'm math challenged, especially when it comes to fractions and ratios.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Well I'm a certified mixologist now! Anthony is bobbing along in his new bath and doesn't seem any worse for wear. I was tearing my hair out a little though with all the mixing and measuring but then I pretended I was making a cosmopolitan! lol It was a little dicey changing to metric but it all worked out in the end as they say.

So, 4 days in this medicine and I'm sure hoping he'll be a new fish!! 

Thanks again for caring about what happens to Anthony!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No problem and I'm rooting for the little guy to pull through.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Sakura, please do thank your friend for me - that's among the best advice I've had, as far as fishkeeping goes. 

I'm cheering for Anthony, too. Hope all goes well. =)


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aus, will do. It has saved my sanity, that's for sure.


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## melissa35567 (Aug 28, 2012)

*how do you post a question*

i cant figure out how to post a question and its like an emergency
please help
please i really need it\im very worried


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello,

Not sure what to think but the impression I'm getting is the medicine tastes bad because he is giving me some pretty dirty looks. lol

This is how he looked a few minutes ago ..... not quite sure what to make of that big bulbous area?? Thank you


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

melissa35567 said:


> i cant figure out how to post a question and its like an emergency
> please help
> please i really need it\im very worried


If it's an Emergency..stay in the Diseases/Emergency topic, in the top left hand corner you will see *New Thread*, click on that,, and you'll be on your way:-D


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That bulbous area looks like where his fin end and his body starts, so the rot has definitely gotten a little too close for comfort. I think Furan-2 causes the water to foam or turn brown or something but he'll have to hang in there for now. C'mon Anthony! Fight off that infection, you can do it buddy!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi, 

Here is Anthony tonight, Aug. 29. There is some material caught in his fins but I think it is detritus from the bottom of the tank. Or not????


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That white filmy stuff? Most likely extra slime coat. Happens when a betta has been in salt for a while. Is Anthony a crowntail or does he just look like one because of his fin rot?


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi

Anthony is a crowntail, the ends of his fins curled some but I read that is not unusual in hard water. Yes, you can see it in his fins at the bottom in the first pic, it does look kind of slimy and filmy.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Ah, okay. I *thought* he was a crowntail but I wasn't sure. Yeah, then the other curling and pearling at the tips of his rays that I see is normal. And the gunky stuff is most likely excess slime coat and nothing to worry about.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Did yu say yu were using I AL?


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, just looked through the thread, are you still using IAL? If you need more, I have some I could send to you for Anthony, I hope the meds you are using helps him, poor baby, looked like some of his tail was growing back..I wish him well..Let me know if you need more


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

@Lelei

Thanks for asking about poor Anthony! Yes, I still have some IAL left although it's only a fraction of a full one, I must go to the LFS and get some more tomorrow. I have been using it in all of his QT tank water changes; at first with his salt water bath and now the Furan-2 bath. I checked in his supply bin (yes, a big plastic bin from Canadian Tire - that's how many times I have redecorated his tank! He has many decorations and extra tank accessories) I sure hope he gets better because Duff and I are quite attached to the little fella! 

One interesting thing I learned is that Anthony is actually pretty smart; he has learned how to travel into his QT by himself! I have two QT tanks so I simply mix up a fresh batch of DC water plus whatever I am adding (AQ salt, Furan-2), pour it into the spare tank, then I simply tilt slightly the QT tank Anthony is in, and Anthony travels by himself in the fresh tank! I thought that was amazing actually. He hates being cupped so I guess he came up with a solution!!

I will continue with the Furan-2 and Kanaplex is arriving to the LFS tomorrow so I will get some of that too. Keep sending good thoughts, too, I do think that helps!!! Thank you for your kind offer of IAL too!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Here is how Anthony looks today, I've been so closely involved here I can't tell - does he look better, worse or you just can't tell???


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Another view. Any comments??


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

So hard to say. It doesn't look worse as far as I can tell. But he sure has lost a lot there, poor guy. When the Kanaplex comes in we can continue with the Furan-2 for another course along with the Kanaplex for a 1-2 punch. If that doesn't work, I may PM my veterinary friend and ask if there's another course of action we could take, such as possibly applying a tincture of some sort directly to the wound.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Yes it's pretty shocking to look at it; I try not to get grossed out you know. He is swimming around still and there was a bubble nest in one corner tonight before I so rudely came and put him in his other QT tank with the second round of the Furan-2! lol He was hungry for pellets tonight too.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Um, perhaps your Vet friend lives in Edmonton, Alberta? I'd be willing to pay him/her for a direct application appointment!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Oh poor lil fishy..I can't tell either, I thought prev, I saw some fin growth..but if it's infection..I pray the Furan will help..prayers to Anthony..I hope the meds do help..If you can't get the IAL..PM me with address..and I will get it to you


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Alas, my vet friend is a veterinary student in Missouri but she has given me so much good advice over the past year. 

I'm very encouraged by his bubblenesting and his appetite. I think the Furan-2 is definitely helping to curtail the infection. Now if only he'd start growing some tissue back there . . . good job, Anthony!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Great! Thanks for the encouragement! 

Tonight should be the last dosing of the Furan-2 then another 25% water change tomorrow night. Then I guess I am ready for a round of Kanaplex, which I was able to get today. Can I go right into the Kanaplex or should I give him some down time in between???

While Anthony is in his QT tank I decided I would treat my big main tank for blue-green algae with erythromycin. Apparently it will not hurt the pygmies that are in the big tank part of my setup. Plus, I got some good news, that my LFS guy will be getting more pygmy corys by popular demand, and I will get some more so I will have a total of either 8 or 10. Only 3 together look pretty miserable and spend a lot of time in hiding! That, or I will return the pgymies to my fish guy and he can sell them again. I don't think Anthony would really miss them, but I think they are so cute. It's just that Anthony tends to eat his food PLUS the cory's food! I've been very creative in distracting my betta and/or cupping him but I never really know if Tic, Tac, Toe are getting enough to eat.

Well, my fish is hanging vertical in the QT tank head up. I think that is my signal for some attention, food and fresh Furan-2!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Latest photos tonight.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Not worsening but not getting better like I'd hoped. How is his attitude?


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi there,

Well he is still eating and still coming to the glass for attention. However, he has been in clamped fin position this morning which is not usual behaviour for him. Not always, he still swims around a little but then his QT tank is not that big. Because he is not healing as well as we all hoped is it possible that it is a mechanical injury with some rot after the fact? Is showed Anthony's photo to my LFS guy and he said it probably will never grow back? He is not a betta fish specialist by any means but all his bettas for sale are in proper heated and filtered tanks not those idiotic cups in pet stores. 

I am willing to keep treating Anthony unless the general consensus is hopeless outcome here and that he may be suffering a fatal wound. I am waiting for some experienced and compassionate eyes to look over poor Anthony!

Thanks to you all .......


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

I would keep upo the treatment and if hes eating and actin normally..i would give more time and as long as its not infection spreading..there is a slight chance yu will see some growth..maybe not much..but if hes overall healthy I would vsay hang in therte for him and give about another weekand keep up clean warm water changes..and I will be sending warm wishes and prayers for yu and Anthony


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Thank you!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello,

Just when I thought it really couldn't get much worse, I just checked on Anton and he has some definite clumps of white fuzz (it looks brown in the photo due to IAL and lighting) on the ends of some of his fins. The warping in the photo is from the edge of the tank. Ugh, I don't know what to do!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

PM OFL..or Sakura..I am so sorry..


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The white clumps of fuzz are most likely excess slime coat. AQ salt stimulates slime coat production so he probably has more than he needs right now.

Do you have a filter or anything he could get caught on/in? If so, it's possible he got his butt caught in the filter. 

As long as he's eating and not breathing heavily and the rot isn't advancing, I think we have a chance.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

OK, that is great news and I will keep on treating Anthony!!! 

He could not get caught in his filter (but I think I've read enough to know that bettas can get themselves in trouble almost anywhere) BUT he did have a new tiki house that he loves, it has some smaller windows so maybe he got clipped when passing through one of those. Apart from that, everything else in the tank was stuff he had for a while ...... so it's very puzzling!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh yes, bettas are very good at getting caught in places. But even if he got caught in his tiki house, I can't imagine it would rip his flesh in half. :/


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello,

Um, what exactly does new fin growth look like?? It's just that tonight after giving fresh water in the QT tank (Kanaplex starts tomorrow) I am noticing that the webbing between some of his fins has definitely gotten longer!! Is this a good and normal fishy thing??


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

New fish growth usually is clear tissue at the ends of the fins and rips. The color comes back later. Sounds like we may have some new fin growth. :-D


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

OMG, I am so relieved you have no idea!!! Something is definitely helping him! I will try to post a picture but it's in the middle section of long fins, the middle webbing part is almost reaching the ends of the fins. 

I just wanted to say, my fish would probably be suffering a slow death had it not been for all the suggestions in this forum, not because I want him to suffer but because I wouldn't know what to do! Also, I wanted to say that, when I was buying all the meds for Anthony, the fish guy asked if he were an expensive betta! No, Anthony wasn't a $200 beauty off the internet but he means a lot to me ... and Duff! lol


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

How fantastic, I am soo glad to hear such great news!! If you need a pic of fin growth I can post a few of my rescues..when my fishy's were regrowing their fins..sounds like he does have some growth..that is such a positive sign


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I love Duff.  I'm really glad we could help you and Anthony. It doesn't matter if they're Aquabid babies or Petco rejects. We love them no matter what.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello,

This is Anthony tonight, after his 1/2 round of AQ salt treatment, full round of Furan-2 and now his first hour into his round of Kanaplex.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

There's always a possibility that the fins in that area will never grow back and he'll always have a stump like that. If he can swim and if the wound has healed over and is no longer infected, then it shouldn't be a problem. It'll just be kinda . . . funny-looking. But it's looking pretty good. It doesn't look like the rot has advanced at all.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

That's my Anthony! Unique!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

If you see some transparent looking fins starting to show..like this..that is growth;-) Example of my Rescue Crimson, when he started showing fin growth


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Wow, that looks cool! Yes that's kind of what it looks like, and mostly in 1 spot. I tried to get a good photo of it this afternoon but he didn't cooperate, and he has to flare everything open for me to catch it. It is between the rays not on the ends so much.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hello everyone,

Well time for an update of my poor Anthony. He has been hanging out in his QT tank, now he is into his second round of Kanaplex ABx treatment. I would say he looks mighty bored in there and is itching to get out into the 16g with the cories. Hang in there, Anthony, maybe soon!

I'm coming to terms his tail is gone forever and I just want to make sure Anthony is healed up enough to live and swim around. I plan to get him a new tank, smaller, where I can keep a close eye on him. Does anyone have any experience with the Eheim Jager nano tanks?

I am attaching recent photos of my tough little betta Anthony.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUD8z8-p6Ao

This is the tank I'd like to see him in. Any comments??


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

O.O I'd like to see my betta in that tank too, it's gorgeous. I've seen the Eheims online and oohed and aahed over them but I've never had one. The filter in that video looks different than the Eheim Aquaball internal power filter though; that one looks like a Penn Plax corner filter that is run by airpump. I can't remember if the Eheims come with lids. Lids are essential with these jumpy fellows and once he feels better, he may jump more because he won't have a big tail.

It looks like the tissue is dying (all gray). If that's the case, then the bad tissue may soon fall off and we just might see new growth there. *crosses fingers*


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi everybody,

So Anthony seems to be holding his own, and I am planning long-term here - I'll get his new EJ nano next weekend. Today I got him a new bag of fresh IAL and he is in his QT tank with fresh DC water and stresscoat. When I put the leaf in, he swam to be under it right away. Yes, the new tank will have a lid. I watched a guy on youTube put one together and it looks really cool. I think the guy's ID was urajoey and he seemed to know what he was doing; he showed all the parts and what is inside the filter - some sort of really interesting little round balls.

I guess I am wondering now, when can he come out of his QT tank?? Should I give him a round of AQ salt one more time?? I am not sure if he is as healed as he should/could be for return to a full-size environment. 

Thanks a lot!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_Well, if he is active and swimming fairly normal, and without difficulty, I would say give it a go..and let him see how he does, you will be able to tell if he is struggling, for the most part he has a lot of fins and he is still strong, I think he will do just fine, even if he doesnt have much of a tail, the other fins will make up for that loss. If you have done 10-14 days of AQ treatment that would be enough, you don't want to hurt the labyrinth. I wish you and Anthony the best of luck..let us know how he does..hugs and fins up!!_


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I second Lelei on that. Let him out on a trial run. I'm less concerned about his swimming ability than about any possibility of the rot returning. If there is any trouble at all with his fins, plop him right back into meds. Good luck!


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks! I don't know what would have happened to my fishy friends had it not been for your input!

So I kind of redecorated his big tank, put in some floating plants that I've had in QT for 7 days, put in my new Fluval underwater filter, heater, new IAL .... does it get any better! lol I put the cories in and the new sand has them very interested. The temp is right. Anthony's addition is imminent!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Go ANTHONY! *grabs pompoms* You can do it, buddy! 

He'll probably be absolutely thrilled to be back in his tank.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Whoohoo!!..go anthony..go anthony!!.yu can do this!!..yaaaaay Anthony


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

It's time for an update!!

So, Anthony and the little fellas (gals?) are back together in the big tank, and were they ever excited! Anthony went back to his favourite flare points in the tank and immediately did some major territory-claiming! lol Then, he went back to his lair in the top rear section of the tank, except with no floaty log. He lurked in there so much, I think I didn't notice his affliction sooner partly because of that!!

The corys were excited too, and seemed to enjoy this regular sand mix way better than the black Flourite sand as I had previously. They have mostly been nose down and tail up - looks like total catfish happiness to me! 

So, I am posting three photos I took tonight. I am not entirely certain what I am looking at there, but whatever that is on his end part seems to be getting bigger. I am hoping the more senior members can have a look and let me know what they see! Also, I am wondering, so many of us have fin rot problems ...... would it be advisable or inadvisable to maybe do a prophylactic AQ salt treatment with or without obvious rot symptoms, say maybe every 2 or 3 months??? I was thinking it might stave off an attack?? Or would that be too hard on him?? I don't know. And I certainly don't want to experiment on him!!

Thanks everybody!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I truly have no idea what that could possibly be but it sure doesn't look like new fin growth. I've gone ahead and messaged Oldfishlady to see if she knows what it could be. If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's almost like his bone is growing out of his body at an odd angle. But that can't be it. It's . . . very weird. But I'm very encouraged to hear that he seems to be acting very normal. That's a good sign. He looks good. His fins are full and flowing, no clamping, and he even looks like he might be flaring in the last pic. He's got his spunk!

I know many breeders of bettas and other fish do prophylatic salt treatments. Many people who have a big stake in the hobby put all new purchases straight into salt and/or antibiotics and antiparasite meds before ever adding them into their tank systems. If the salt treatments are done within the time frame - no more than 10 days, 14 at the very maximum - and every 3 months or so apart, I don't see how it could do any harm. This, along with keeping the water clean and the fish unstressed, are the best ways to prevent fin rot or any other disease.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_The best thing is that he is eating, and actively swimming, and overall looking ok, despite what is going on, That is a very good sign, It's just boggling what it could be, and why no method of treatment is working..I am soo sorry..I sure hope OFL can help with this one..it is strange.._


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Good Morning,

Thanks for weighing in on this strange situation .... he is very, um, unique-looking right now. 

He certainly seems happy enough; swimming around, eating well, flaring in his usual tank areas and I think his fins look really great! He swims from side to side, top to bottom, and likes to hang in his new floating frogbit plants. He has attempted a few times to make a bubble nest in one corner but the Fluval filter keeps destroying it even on the lowest flow and most oblique direction setting. So, the sooner he is set up in the EJ Aquastyle tank the better, but there is no urgent rush now that the big tank is looking pretty good. If I had to guess at what that protuberance might be I'd say he suffered a bad injury to his tail and that is the tail stock trying to regenerate. BUT honestly I am only super guessing here. I am hoping it is not a tumour of some kind, just a body part ......of some form or another! I'd be so appreciative if OFL can take a look, that'd be great! She may remember saving him last year, when he ate Crusty, the RCS. After 3 days of monitoring the interactions Crusty just disappeared ... and Anthony was twice his normal belly size. Sad day for me, then.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Is that a hole/open area..(in the pic it's hard to tell) on the part of his missing fin over the body area? that is a lill disturbing, looking but as long as he is acting normally it's amazing


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi Lelei

I'll have to try and get a better photo using my big camera so there will be more detail. Also there is IAL in the tank so it is darker than regular water!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi there! OFL believes it could be a buildup of scar tissue, since he lost so much fin and since the rot touched his body. I'm not sure if this buildup will ever fall off.

Curious, but have you tried to touch it? Just wondering if it stiff or if it is flexible. 

Either way, it doesn't seem like it's bothering him and it seems benign so unless it gets just enormous and starts to hinder his swimming ability, I'd just keep an eye on it. There's even a possibility that he could just knock it off someday while swimming.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi there!

Thanks for all the info! If he knocks it off some day, I sure hope I'm not a witness!

So, for now, just keep on keeping on?


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Maybe a round of Kanaplex in 2 weeks?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If you think the infection isn't totally beaten, then a round of Kanaplex probably will help, just to be on the safe side. But if you don't see any black, then he may well be out of the danger zone, especially since he is acting well.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Oh, sorry I didn't answer that part of your post / I've never tried to touch it - slime coat and all that, but I will try to observe if it wiggles or if it's stiff like a fin. I've seen him swim and it doesn't seem to move around too much, but I will make it my mission to observe it here on the weekend - among other things! But it definitely is growing.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

On the other hand, do you think it would be safe for me to touch it - in his interest I mean? Maybe I should just try that.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Growing? This boy has some weird stuff happening to his rear end, all right.

It's just that it looks like a giant bone spur to me but logically, I know that can't be it.  

I'm just so glad he's acting well.  You've done a great job, GaspeGirl. 

EDIT: To be honest, I touch my bettas quite frequently. I think just this once will be okay but if you are worried, you can always add extra Stress Coat to his tank to help him replace whatever he may lose.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Hi there,

OK, I'll try the touching thing. I wonder who'll be more nervous ......

On another note, I've always tried to avoid sticking my arm in to clean the lower ends of the tank, I would always lower the water level to do it; can I put my arm in after washing it and rinsing well? Sounds like a surgical op! lol I always thought the oils, etc from my arm would not be good for the tank in general.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

While it's true that too much physical interaction with a fish is not good for it, the occasional touch won't harm it. And I think as long as you have made sure you don't have lotion on, it's fine to stick your arm into the water. The amount of oils from your skin that would come off would be minute in comparison to the water volume. If you are really worried about that though, you can always try these: 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3728+3871&pcatid=3871
They go all the way up past your elbow, almost to the shoulder. I got a pair for when I need to handle my electric catfish and they work great.


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