# First Time Breeding Betta



## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I bought a male and female betta about a week ago. I kept the male in a small tank with the female place inside a separate glass container. Last night I placed the cover over the tank wake up this morning to feed them and discovered that she had jumped out of the container, male had built a bubble nest and discovered that they spawned during the course of the night or morning. I removed her and placed her back inside the container and lowered her water leave. Male is quite is constantly rotating the eggs inside the bubble nest.

I was quite surprise that the female had spawned as she look extremely young. I have breeding tanganyikan cichlids for 3 years and decided to make a change.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Good luck with your surprise spawn.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

When does the eggs start hatching?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Usually between 36 to 72 hours. Not long at all.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum and congrats......

Depending on water temp and pH- eggs usually hatch within 24-36 and you can see the tiny tails hanging from the nest and sometimes the fry can be seen bouncing or how I refer to it...lol....bouncing babies...

In another 36-48h- again depending on temp/pH the fry as they absorb their yolk sac will start to free swim leaving the nest to seek food....usually this is when some breeders will remove the male-but you can also leave him long term- but risk him eating the fry-some males do and some don't...

What food do you plan for the fry.....

Can you tell us more about your spawning tank and plans...and as you already found out....spawning is generally the easy part...but rearing fry can sometimes get tricky...It can be rewarding and lots of fun rearing your own Bettas from spawn to adults-but since you breed cichlid you already know how much fun it can be breeding fish....lol.....

Love to see pics of the spawning pair......


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't know the slightest thing about breeding but just wanted to congratulate you on the surprise spawn!! :-D


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I would also Like to see pictures of the spawn. This is pretty interesting. What colors and tail type are they?

OFL covered pretty much all of it.

Bettas are very different from cichlids, though raising your own fry is very fun! Cichlids are very aggressive, but can live together in peace on most days. It's completely the opposite for bettas. Though I'm sure you'll do fine since you have experience with breeding fish in general.

Good Luck! Let us know a few updates here and there.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

What i have noticed the male is continuously rotating the eggs. Eggs falling to the tank surface and he collects them and spit them back into the bubble-nest. He is re-building the nest all the time and moving the eggs around. Is that normal behavior?

My breeding tank size is 30cm x 21cm x21cm and the water level is 12cm.

The batch of eggs is not very large.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well to answer your question, YES, this is normal behavior. The father will always keep building new nests to be sure his fry are safe or if he wants to move them he definitely will.

And when the eggs are falling then he will continuously be putting them back into the nest or moving them to a new nest. This is all normal. He might even go to the farthest part of the tank away from the nest and wait there a few minutes before going back to the nest. It's almost like he is taking a break lol.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

wake up this morning he was just laying around the top, the nest was gone and eggs where floating on the surface, do i need to keep the light on at night? he had rebuilt the nest and collected the eggs that was floating around and also the ones that was lying at the bottom.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

It's a good idea to leave a little light so that the male can see the eggs when they drop.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Last night i notice little tails bouncing around in the bubbles, so now the eggs had hatched.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

This morning i discovered the breeding was scatters with fry floating on the surface, dad was just lying at the bottom. He attended to the fry but less as what he was with the eggs. At one stage the fry was swimming all around him while he was just lying in between the plants. This afternoon I removed him most of the fry was swimming all around the plants floating on the surface. Some fry dropped to the bottom but swam back to the water surface edging. There yolks sacs are becoming smaller by Sunday i will feeding them some liqui-fry.

It is a pity my digital camera is not here to take clear shots of this memorable occasion.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Congratulations.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow. Congratulations on your first spawn!! I hope you have a wonderful experience. Also yes it would help a bunch if he could have the light on and see the eggs. Also make sure you have a lot of thick bunching plants in the tank. Try marimo balls. The fry love them and stick by them a lot to eat infusoria.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

the fry is now 3 days old and swimming very well. i inserted a small sponge filter and very low bubbles and fry have attached themselves onto the sponge. i have started feeding them liqui fry food. Male has died since removing him from the fry. His fins started to grow fungi only noticed to late as i had him inside my baby breeding net. it could have been changing him into a different water chemistry. i had him inside this tank before i had him inside the breeding tank. fry are enjoying the plants that i had inside the tank. i bought myself another male looks very young and mom is very active inside her container our temperature is very hot but cool inside our house.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Congratulations on the spawn. I'm sorry about your male though.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

My fry is now 4 days old and started to feed them newly hatched baby brine shrimp. I made myself a drip tray and started to fill these containers with clean water. My tank is half filled and by the end of the week it should be full. I have a grow-out tank that I will use. My first batch was not very big. At least as time goes on I will get better at this. Inside the spawning tank I have plants, heater and small sponge filter(running very low). How long do I continue to feed them newly hatched baby brine shrimp?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm glad that your fry are doing great. To answer your question, I usually keep the fry on BBS (baby brine shrimp) until they are about 5 months old and even then I will feed them BBS with other foods. You should really give them a variety of other foods if you want. Though you don't HAVE to keep them on BBS until they are 5 months old.

If you want to wean them over to other foods that are dry (when they get older of course) I would suggest getting assorted brands of betta flakes and crush them up to feed them with the BBS in at least one feeding a day.

Hope I helped.

P.S.
I know I'm a bit late, but Welcome To the Forum.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

This morning I added back a snail to clean the buttom of the fry tank and remove the snail out at night. This morning I added more aged water into the fry tank by using the dripping method. The fry enjoy the drifting plants that I had left inside the breeding tank. I am going to prepare a growout tank for the fry, I currently have angels which I am selling back to the LPS.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Fry is now 6 days old and enjoying the baby brine shrimp, i feed them live and frozen and i would alternate with liqui fry. In the morning and night i would add 1L of aged water into my dripping containers by the weekend my tank should be full and by next week start with water changes it that okay.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Sounds great. Congrats on the spawn. a bit lat but sorry to hear about the. dad.
Do you have a rough head count of the fry?
Also, what color/tail types were the parents, out of curiosity(I like tomake guesses at the fry to be xD) 

Hope you have continued good health in the fry. <3


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

keith1964 said:


> Fry is now 6 days old and enjoying the baby brine shrimp, i feed them live and frozen and i would alternate with liqui fry. In the morning and night i would add 1L of aged water into my dripping containers by the weekend my tank should be full and by next week start with water changes it that okay.


 
It sounds like everything is going as planned and smoothly. Great job. To answer your question, Yes that would be okay. That is actually very good and I'm glad your taking things so carefully!:-D

I cant wait for some pictures.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Male was blood red and female dark red with slight blue and green. Fry is now 7 days old and the water level should be by tormorrow night full and then next week start with water changes. I have a 20L bucket of water standing for almost a week with dechlorinator. During the day I put the snail back inside to do some clean up but remove at night. The batch was not that big could be about 30. The female looks still very young but the male looked a bit older as they just arrived at the LPS. The second male looks young and health has good finage.


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

Congrats and welcome to the forum. 

What tail types were the parents? 

Sorry to hear about your loss of the dad


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I am still new at this my male's finage was quiet long. The minute I get my digital camera back I will take some shots. I have some pics on my cellphone but not so clear.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Fry is 9 days old and very much active. Their tank is almost full by Sunday will start with water change, must I still continue with the drip tray method that I am currently using to top up the fry tank.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

If it is helping keep the fry at a stable temp and is efficieny, I would definitely keep the drip source there. It would be best for he fry and you dont have to worry about shocking them. Also try doing 30%-50% of water changes every other day or even everyday. The drip method might take too long to fill the tank if you continue to do very constant water changes as suggested.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> If it is helping keep the fry at a stable temp and is efficieny, I would definitely keep the drip source there. It would be best for he fry and you dont have to worry about shocking them. Also try doing 30%-50% of water changes every other day or even everyday. The drip method might take too long to fill the tank if you continue to do very constant water changes as suggested.


I have a 20L container of dechlorinated water standing for a week outside which I would like to use. Tomorrow i will just aerate this water. Will it be okay to use this water. It is summer here in Cape Town and hot and the water temp is okay. When I start with the 30% -50% water change do I continue with the drip tray method for the time.


Their is about 40 fry, first spawn of this female. I am keeping them inside this breeding tank and will later move them into 60cmm x 30cm x 25cm.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

keith1964 said:


> I have a 20L container of dechlorinated water standing for a week outside which I would like to use. Tomorrow i will just aerate this water. Will it be okay to use this water. It is summer here in Cape Town and hot and the water temp is okay. When I start with the 30% -50% water change do I continue with the drip tray method for the time.
> 
> 
> Their is about 40 fry, first spawn of this female. I am keeping them inside this breeding tank and will later move them into 60cmm x 30cm x 25cm.


The water you have outside is fine to add slowly, but it doesnt have to be too slow. Just try to filter out as much bacteria and unwanted chemicals (if any) as possible.

Its really your own decision to keep or get rid of the whole drip method. I would probably get rid of it and. Just do he water changes carefully.

40 is a pretty good number for a new breeder female.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I drip water into my fry tank using an air hose. That way the chemistry changes very slowly, but is a little faster than the drip tray method.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Today i made my first water change to about 30% and used my dripping system. i also removed the canopy and replaced with clingwrap plastic and pearced a few holes. i also cleaned the bottom removing any dirt and dead fry not much dead ones.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

a friend mine breeds angels and rainbow and told me that i can substitute feeding them granules of yeast has anyone yet tried.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Angels and rainbow IMO are totally different. Betta fry are tiny, and tend to be more picky on their food. Live food works best for them but if you have tiny particles of food, you can try them. I use egg yolk, dispersed into tiny particles for about a week or so (depends how fast they grow).


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

indjo said:


> Angels and rainbow IMO are totally different. Betta fry are tiny, and tend to be more picky on their food. Live food works best for them but if you have tiny particles of food, you can try them. I use egg yolk, dispersed into tiny particles for about a week or so (depends how fast they grow).


I am hatching BBS regular intervals I would usually feed them newly hatched and the rest I would freeze. I also feed them liqui fry.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I am doing regular water changes (2L) daily, I have notice that the fry is growing and the weaker ones are dying. The are enjoying live BBS. Fry is now 12 days old.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Spawn is not that big. Fry is now 13days old, only the strong ones are surviving. Eating great and chasing after live bbs. I have 3 bbs hatchery running. Running them intervals of 12 hours apart. Still doing my 1L water change. Growth is visible, will be leaving in them in the spawning tank for another 3 weeks. Grow out tank is quiet big, holds over 60L water. I usually sit by there tank in the morning before I go to work and at night. Once I can rear them into adulthood I will them continue breeding my pair again.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Sounds like your spawn is doing great. It may sound harsh, but I believe the only the strong and healthy fry SHOULD survive. Good luck with your fry.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I think my mistake was when my pair spawned I had no light on and while the fry was still on their yolk sac the male had died. From here I can see where I am going wrong and where I could improve so that I have larger spawns in the future.

Step 1: Conditioning my pair
Step 2: Buy another 2 breeding tanks
Step 3: Provide light during spawning period (Is this a must)


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Ich has broken out in my fry tank fry are now 14 days old.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

*Ich in my fry tank*

Here are pictures of my fry with ich. I have strip there tank completely and washed off everything with warm water including the plants. I had a 10L bucket of aged water which I had used for their tank. I added some ich medication a few droplets and keeping the temp at 28dg and using a small airstone with slow moving bubbles and a small sponge filter also running low.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

They look like they are doing fine. Nice pictures by the way.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

tpocicat said:


> They look like they are doing fine. Nice pictures by the way.


Can you see the little white spots on there body, only noted this morning and added some ich medication to their tank.

When i caught them i was surprise to see so many fry from this their first spawn.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

No, I wasn't able to see any white patches of ick, I looked, but of course it's a lot easier in person to see stuff like that.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

tpocicat said:


> No, I wasn't able to see any white patches of ick, I looked, but of course it's a lot easier in person to see stuff like that.


When i got back from work I just stripped the whole down washed everything off in warm ie. tank; heater; sponge filter and live plants.

Had a 10L bucket of aged water and added a few drops of ick medication, keeping the heater at 28dg, also have the airstone running very low as well as the sponge filter.

Have floating for an hour to acclimatize with the new tank set-up.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@keith1964: You have 16 fry right?

Anyway they look great. What I would suggest is MANY water changes and raising the heat if it isn't already high enough


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> @keith1964: You have 16 fry right?
> 
> Anyway they look great. What I would suggest is MANY water changes and raising the heat if it isn't already high enough


 
In the picture there is actually 2 containers with the fry about 40 or more. Although I did a full tank clean-up do I still continue with water changes everyday about 30%. The temp is at 28dg already. The fry is eating when I give them live BBS.

I usually feed them in the morning and I can see the tummies are full and then at night when I come from work.


Is it necessary to add any salt to the tank as I have added some droplets of Ick medication.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

keith1964 said:


> In the picture there is actually 2 containers with the fry about 40 or more. Although I did a full tank clean-up do I still continue with water changes everyday about 30%. The temp is at 28dg already. The fry is eating when I give them live BBS.
> 
> I usually feed them in the morning and I can see the tummies are full and then at night when I come from work.
> 
> ...


Ah I see. I dont know I just started counting. 40 is a pretty good number and average.

With some breeders, they feed their fry about 3 times a day and they grow pretty quickly. If possible, on your days off of work, try feeding them 3 times a day for about a week and see if you se any change.

I dont think you really need any salt, but aq salt dosage for the adults is different for fry. If you feel that you should add some, do so but remember add less than half of the dosage your supposed to.

Good luck.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> Ah I see. I dont know I just started counting. 40 is a pretty good number and average.
> 
> With some breeders, they feed their fry about 3 times a day and they grow pretty quickly. If possible, on your days off of work, try feeding them 3 times a day for about a week and see if you se any change.
> 
> ...


My neighbors daughter would feed them 2 drops of liqui-fry in the midday. She use to feed my discus in the afternoon when she comes from school with my mom aiding her.

I have done 1L water change tonite and tomorrow morning another 1L and late afternoon again.

I would rather stay away from the salt.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

Fry is now 19days old, ick seems to have disappeared, but still keeping my temp at 28dg. Fry growing and eating healthy. Doing every second day a water change, but every night I would clean the bottom. I use my big snail during the day to do clean up. This weekend my angels are going so I am using their tank for my grow out it is 60cm x 32cm x 36cm.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Great! (I love angels!) Why are you getting rid of them?

Anyway, I would say to keep your tank at 28*C because you just made the ick go into its free swimming stage and now you have to do more water changes to get rid of it so it doesnt come back with even more spots.

Post pictures soon! Good Luck!


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I will continue with the water changes about 2Litres everyday and clean the bottom of the tank as well. I put the big snail in the morning to do some clean up and remove at night before lights out. Fry is fascinated with the snail they are picking his shell. Fry is growing quiet nice. Now I see the amount of time you have to keep your hands on the fry compare to my tanganyikan cichlid breeding. I usually did my weekly water changes running through a sump filter. Check water parameters, daily feeding, looking for dead fish and constantly building more nesting places. I breed at one stage paradise gouramis and there was not internet to do any research so it was using your own initiative. The last attempt was discus but gave it shortly after the passing away of my dad so I took time out to re-group.

I bought the angels, but got fascinated the bettas had them before but not for breeding. Our LPS had received some nice crown tails and halfmoon so I off this weekend to the petshop to buy me some females and some males.

My friend who use to breed angels has some tanks for me, so I am going to some myself out at home and dedicate some space for my bettas. I am first going to experiment with my first fry and grow them to adulthood. I have spoken to a LPS owner where I had bought my first pair if he would be interested in betta for sale 'yes' but I must try an breed the exotic breeds like the crowntails and halfmoons.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I think angels are my second favorite species of fish and then the various african cichlids and oscars ect.

As easy as it is to sell bettas to the LPS, it is NOT suggested at all. And IMO I am against the whole idea of selling to pet stores because they are SO uninformed and have so much misinformation. 

I am not saying I am against you because you have the idea, but I'm saying that I oppose the idea of selling bettas to LPS's. I have many reasons, and some that upset me is that people that go to the pet store really dont care and would torture the fish and sometimes put them together. I am not against the idea of having bettas in the small cups because It would ,make NO sense at all to have them all in 1.5 or 2.5 gallons. The store would be wasting and losing money to keep it going.

Also I have seen poor care when it comes to Betta requirements of the water changing and other things.

Remember all {I} can do is voice my opinion and hope you go with it, but I strongly suggest looking for other options. Of course it is your own decision and such, but you should consider it.

And if you know the owner of the store it should be that you visit the store often or just occasionally to check on the fish and then decide if you should STILL sell to him/her.

Good Luck!


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> I think angels are my second favorite species of fish and then the various african cichlids and oscars ect.
> 
> As easy as it is to sell bettas to the LPS, it is NOT suggested at all. And IMO I am against the whole idea of selling to pet stores because they are SO uninformed and have so much misinformation.
> 
> ...



I will keep this thought in my mind, how do you manage with all your fry when your bettas breed?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Do you mean, how do I get rid of most of them?

If so, what I do is sell as much as possible locally to people and since I have tons of family (come that actually have fish keeping experience) and want some. Though I don't think I will want to give a person my fry unless they are experienced with betta care, breeding, ect or if they have experience with other fish and want to have something new. Also this doesnt mean I dont encourage people not to get bettas and dont sell it to them, it just means that I am a bit picky and wouldnt want my fry that I work hard to keep alive and grow to adulthood, to just go to someone that is most likely going to get bored with it and want a different fish in the next week. I'm sure you know what I mean. Like kids.

Only if the person is willing to take advice and research and meet the right requirements (if they dont know/do this already) then I will sell/give away fry to them.

But anyway, (little rant) I now have a better way of doing things. I usually visit my family in different states a lot and rarely ever take my bettas with me, but that time I did and I sold them to people that really knew what they were doing and talking about when it came to fish keeping, which I am very happy about. Also I don't think I will be doing things like that again, but it was a really interesting experience!

One time I had a spawn of 200+ fry and ended with a rounded number of 140-150 fry which is pretty cool, though that spawn took me a month or to get rid of.

It was easier to house that many before because I had my Fish room. Now that I moved, I have my room:/


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

My fry will be 6 weeks old and some seems to appear getting colour. My ammonia had spiked in both tanks. Yet I have been doing water changes on both tanks. I have done a 50% water change on both tanks and reduce the eating from the adult tank. I also have to sponge filters running inside this tank.

The ammonia problem in my adult tank although I two cory's and a large snail doing clean up. My tank is bare-based and I do not see any uneaten food laying on the bottom and the cory's does a clean sweep. Could it be the plants that is causing the ammonia to spike.

How often do I need to do a water change or do I need to re-cycle my tank.

I have also changed my water conditioners by using Seachem Prime & Stability.

I have bought myself another 9 females and 6 crown males and they are looking very stunning.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

keith1964 said:


> My fry will be 6 weeks old and some seems to appear getting colour. My ammonia had spiked in both tanks. Yet I have been doing water changes on both tanks. I have done a 50% water change on both tanks and reduce the eating from the adult tank. I also have to sponge filters running inside this tank.
> 
> The ammonia problem in my adult tank although I two cory's and a large snail doing clean up. My tank is bare-based and I do not see any uneaten food laying on the bottom and the cory's does a clean sweep. Could it be the plants that is causing the ammonia to spike.
> 
> ...


It can be the plants that could be messing with ammonia and other harmful things. If the plant isn't really an aquatic plant that could be the problem. It can be releasing harmful chemicals. What plants do you have?

I wouldnt say to cycle the whole tank again, just make sure you do more water changes than you normally do.

Also I don't have experience with the SeaChem Prime & Stability item, but it says (SEA).. Are you sure that's okay for freshwater? It seems a little iffy to me.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> It can be the plants that could be messing with ammonia and other harmful things. If the plant isn't really an aquatic plant that could be the problem. It can be releasing harmful chemicals. What plants do you have?
> 
> I wouldnt say to cycle the whole tank again, just make sure you do more water changes than you normally do.
> 
> Also I don't have experience with the SeaChem Prime & Stability item, but it says (SEA).. Are you sure that's okay for freshwater? It seems a little iffy to me.


I have been using Seachem products for all my discus and tanganyikan tanks. I removed my floating plants as some of them are dying.

Do you think i should start feeding fry dry food yet as some of the fry is quiet large and already showing color will be posting pics soon.


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

I have moved from the larger fry into a grow out tank. Starting to feed them dry food but relunctant to eat. From what age to I stop feeding them BBS or can I continue with BBS for awhile.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

How old are the fry? About how large are they. Spawns vary to size at certain ages. Also a picture would help a lot as well.

I usually start feeding my fry dry foods at 6-7 weeks old. They are about an inch by then and they start to eat crushed pellets and other crushed foods like FreezeDriedBloodworms and now I will try some flakes for an experiment. (Crushed)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I read an interesting article in the AFI April 2012....about fry nutrition research-not specific to Bettas-but interesting none the less...anyway.....what the research stated was that some species of fry need live foods not just to stimulate the hunting/feeding instinct- but the enzymes and bacterial gut fauna live foods provide that they need to help them process food later in life to aid in food digestion as well as absorb nutrients and when fry food is void of this the fish can slowly wither and die even when they appear to be eating a good diet.

It goes into the importance of calcium to help build strong fins, bones, scales-they get some of the calcium from foods but most is extracted from the water through specialized pores on their body-stating the importance of water changes to renew calcium and other mineral found in the source water.

The key to knowing you are feeding enough is by the tummy...it should be bulging after feeding-if not-you are either not feeding enough or feeding the wrong food....


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## keith1964 (Jan 2, 2012)

My fry is now 10 weeks old and growing extremely fast and eat like piglets. I have separated the fry into 3 separate tanks. The batch of fry in the one tank have started dying off, they were all in the top surface of the water line. I removed them into a smaller tank and medicated them with some velvet cure. About 12 of the fry had died by last night and this morning the rest started looking more sparky and started to nibble on the food.


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