# Floating on his side on the top



## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi.

Please help me. I have a beautiful double tail Betta I bought from PetSmart about 2 years ago. 

I keep him in a 5 gallon tank that uses a charcoal filter system. I keep the tank between 78-81 consistently. I do 75% water changes every 1-2 weeks. I feed him pellets and freeze dried brine.

Last Friday, I noticed he had a bulge on his side and he was much more inactive than usual. I researched on this forum. I did water changes, I did an Epsom salt bath. I stopped feeding him and then only fed him a bit of boiled pea on Wednesday. 

I thought I overfed him and he would get better. He's not.

Wednesday I went to the pet store and got him these Marineland ALL IN ONE remedy pills. I took out the filter and put one in his tank each day. I changed about 25% of the water Wednesday. I tested the water: No ammonia, no nitrates, but hard water. 


I have given him the rest of the pea. He ate some and left the rest. He is floating on his side on the top of the tank yesterday and today. He barely swims now. 

All through this I feel horrible and helpless, and he was still swimming over to me and my finger on the glass until today.

I had hope he would make it until today. He is not outwardly struggling, but pretty lifeless.

Anything else I can try? Please, anything you can think of. Thank you.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Okay. Don't give him any more peas, they can actually hurt him since he can't digest plant matter. If you feel the need to give him a laxative, try daphnia instead.

The usual treatment for this type of distress is to fast him for 2-3 days, and keep his water clean. Don't give him any food at all. You may wish to put him in a bare-bottom tank so that you can easily see when he poops.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Thanks. I will fix his tank tonight, and no more food for Killer. I really appreciate the advice!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Keep us posted. If he does't improve in a couple of days, you may need to treat him with Epsom salt, which can be cheaply bought at any pharmacy. I don't know how to do that, though, so you'll need to check the threads for "bloat" for instructions on Epsom Salt (not Aquarium Salt). Remember that even if the thread does not specifically say so, you must always dissolve salt _before _adding it to the tank, or you can badly hurt your fish.

Give it a couple of days first, though, to see if his condition improved. My boy took 2 days and _did not need_ a salt treatment when he got bloat and swim bladder distress, which is what it sounds like yours has.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Thanks!*

I will keep a close watch on him. And I have Epsom salt here at home if he needs.


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## FattyBlues (Jul 27, 2014)

sounds like SBD. epsom salt baths and warming the temp of the water a little helped my betta with SBD almost immediately.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

What should I raise the temp to and how do I do an Epsom Salt. Killer is hanging on by a thread. Not swimming unless he has to and not interested in food at all. I have not seen any poop. I think he is just overall sick. It's hard for me not to want to diagnose him with everything: popeye, icK. Maybe I will try to get a pic. 

Will antibiotics help?


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

And thanks for everyone's suggestions/help so far. I really appreciate it!


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

I went to an aquarium store. The guy said to try Betta Revive, which is Neomycin and Malachite Green. I'm on day 2 of treatment and he looks no better. I lowered the water in his tank, turned off the filter (so he wouldn't have to swim against current) and do 25% water changes daily. I took out everything except a leaf to rest on and his log. yesterday he actually ate one pellet I had already soaked in his water before dropping it in. He has been fasting for most of the days of the last 2 weeks. I did not try to feed him today.

He doesn't seem like he is suffering. 

Yet, he is laying around, will swim over to me, can't maintain upright in the water unless he is swimming. I have tried to de stress him. Minimal lights. Minimal noise. Occasionally coming over to the tank and trying not to cry into the tank : (

What more can I try? Am I torturing him? I will do this for months if he is not suffering. Anyone? Thanks.

I have pics of his bulge and of him floating/resting. I just don't know how to upload them.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Please answer the questions below as best you can. And if you can get the picture posted it would help.

Stop the betta revive, if it is SBD, that's like bombing the entire city block to kill a housefly, the carbon in your filter probably pull all of the malachite out of the water anyway. 

If it is SBD, you need to treat his water, the baths won't do anything. If you have a small QT tank, dose that water with epsom salt, start at 1tsp/gallon and put him in. If you don't, just treat him in his tank, do a big water change to get all the betta revive out and then treat at 1 tsp / gallon. Let him sit in that, it should help with the SBD and if it is fluid buildup from something else, it should help draw some of that out.

Are you using a bio filter (like filter sponge or other media) other than charcoal filtration?



Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

To post a pic .

Click 'Go Advanced'
Click the paperclip icon next to the white smiley face.
Click 'Choose File"
Select your file and hit upload.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Pics of my beta*







the top pic is of him laying on his near his leaf near the surface. Not all beta revive is out of the tank yet.







The next pic shows my the tank, lower water to decrease current for him. 25% water change each day.







Laying on his leaf before the Betta Revive.







using his tunnel to stay in one place, shows his bulge.


I'm going to have to go back and reread my posts to get a timeline again. Right this moment, his tank has about 5 inches of water in it. with Betta Revive.

This am I am going to go back slowly to full 5 gal tank, but add sponge filters and WAY decrease the current. I will make sure he has places to go/hide/float to stay near the top or wherever he chooses.

I have a heater. The tank is 78-80 year round. 

i bought some Daphnia in case he wants to eat. He still is able to swim when I accidentally nudge the tank or talk to him. I tried to feed him yesterday. he didn't. 

Thoughts?

I already tried the pea. I tried soaking his one pellet I gave him so it wouldn't expand in him. I tried about 1/8 of a regular bloodworm --this is the most he's been feed or attempted to have been feed over 2 weeks.

Anyone? Thank you.

I will recheck ammonia, etc. Last time I did there was no ammonia, no nitrates, but I'm sure that is up since I haven't used the filter in 3 days (beta revive and decreasing water level).


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Is that white on his bluge in the last picture just a reflection or is it white like that on his scales?

Is his bulge only on one side or is it even on both sides?


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Betta bulge*

The bulge is on one side. That picture was exaggerated, but he does look white at the site of the bulge. However, it looks like a loss of color or just like it is bulging out so much it's pale. 


I'm working on the ph etc. changing the water and it still has the malachite green in it from the leftover betta revive.

His face looks "paler" today. I am losing optimism.
Thanks.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Are the scales sticking out like a pine cone?
If he has SBD, betta revive wont help, what will help is 1 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water. Leave him in it and dont do a "bath" or a "dip". 
Although usually with SBD, they have a big stomach. He looks kinda skinny


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

I'll agree, it doesn't look like he's bloated and has SBD.
I'm not very experience with this but it looks like it might either be a tumor or more possibly fluid buildup from a bacterial infection.
We can't treat a tumor, but if you want, we can take a shot at treating a bacterial infection. Do you have Kanaplex?

BTW, is he in the epsom salt yet?


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Sorry it took so long to post my answer. I thought I had posted this in my original post. 


Housing 5 gallon tank
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank? 80 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food used to be pellets and freeze dried bloodworm. Tried a pea. Worked once, the second time (days later) nothing. Bought Daphnia and tried several times after several days fasting. He won't eat. 
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish? I used to feed him once a day, about 5 pellets. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? used to be once a week. Now 50% every day.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
tetra aquasafe plus

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? yes

Ammonia:
Nitrite:10
Nitrate:0.5
pH:7.5
Hardness:250
Alkalinity: 240

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? he has a lump on his side.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Lethargic. Swims when I come by for a bit then stops and floats sideways. Won't eat.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2 weeks ago? 3? I have to look at my first post. But it's a daily battle.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Epsom salt baths for a few days. Fasting him. Feeding him part of a pea. Fasting him again voluntarily, then involuntarily bc he won't eat. Marineland all in one treatment tablet for 5 days. Then Betta Revive. Then complete water change and trying to slow down the current from the filter. 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? Bought him from Petco about 1.5 to 2 years ago.

He either hides in his little house at the bottom or floats at the top sideways, always under something so he can just lay there and bring his head up once in while. His spine seems curved.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Update and new pics.*

I ordered the Kanaflex and he's got Epsom salt in his tank. I briefly took him out today to try to feed him while I changed the water. Still won't eat. (I don't take him out every day, fyi.)

New pics.
















View attachment 407562


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Today I came home from work - same thing. Folded and floating on the top in between a fixed log and the side of the aquarium.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*When is it time to euthanize?*

I'm not sure if this will link to the same thread or not. If not, my fish has been sick about 3 weeks. 
He's still not eating. Stays at the top on his side, "tumor" side on top. He's losing color. I am still waiting on the Kanaplex to arrive in the mail. I've called a half a dozen aquarium stores and no one sells it. 

I'm starting to feel REALLY guilty. How do I know he's not in pain? Is it time to euthanize him? Somebody please help me.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sorry, been busy. For lack of someone more experienced than me, I still think it might be the result of a bacterial infection.

I won't judge if it's time to euthanize or not, I'd try to make him as comfortable as possible until you can try the medication.

I take it the Epsom salt is not helping?


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*U shaped floating now*

Veloran, thank you for replying! I thought I had done or posted something wrong or offensive! 

I ordered Furan 2 and Kanaplex. The Furan 2 arrives tomorrow. The Kanaplex should be here Monday. I'm going to try the Furan 2 tomorrow to start. For some reason, it was more widely available and had faster shipping options than the Kanaplex. 
The Epsom salt isn't helping. Now he has gone from laying on his side to laying almost in a complete "U", with the bump on his side on top. 
I bought clove oil a few days ago as a just in case, but I couldn't do it. I'm going to try the antibiotics before I think about it again. He won't eat, but he swims for a second or two when I come near the tank. Then back to his U shape.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

No worries, you didn't say anything offensive, in fact, you can say anything you want to me, doesn't matter, my biggest concern is that your little guy doesn't pass and gets healthy again, I'm just a little out of my depth here. I haven't been home lately either which isn't helping.

I probably should have suggested you look for Erythromycin, I always keep Kanaplex on hand but am quickly discovering it can be a little difficult to come by.

If your little guy is willing to fight, I'd agree with your decision.

You can try the Furan-2 but my concern with that is it's poor absorption rate for treating internal infections. You can dose Kanaplex with Furan-2 but I'm not sure about starting treatment in the middle of a round of different antibiotics. I'd say it's worth a shot if he doesn't look like he's going to make it, just make sure you always complete the round of treatment with the antibiotic, don't stop in the middle. It's going to be hard on his system either way.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong it didn't appear that he had pine-coning all over his body, just slightly raised scales where the growth is located.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi and thanks! No pine coning. Just that raised area. Today he is doing something he has never done. I have a beta log with a bump/knob on its side. He is actually laying on the knob. He's not even floating anymore. He is still alive though. 

The Furan 2 should be here no later than 8pm according to Amazon. 

Now I am wondering if that is just going to outright kill him since he is so weak. 

I'm trying to be objective and do what is best, but I am second guessing myself on which way to go. I'm an ICU nurse. Why is this SO hard?


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I think it's a bacterial infection. Looks like that fluid buildup is pushing on the swim bladder. I would try the meds. If it's too strong and kills him because he's so weak frok being sick, at least you didn't give up. You've already paid for the medicine anyway.

Is your tank not cycled? You're showing nitrites on your water test. That's as bad as ammonia. That coul have lowered his immune system.

See if you can get your hands on some frozen, not freeze-dried, bloodworms. The protein boost will help him.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Day one of Furan 2*

I read your post and I agree. Might as well go down fighting if there's a chance and he's not suffering. I started the Furan 2 when I got it today at 2pm. He isn't really doing anything except breathing at this point. 

For the Furan 2 it said to take out my carbon filter. So I did. Do I continue water changes? Should I change the water before my next dose tomorrow?

I'm posting some pics of him floating in his log. Whatever the lump is on his side, it looks like an alien about ready to pop out. (the green arrow is pointing to the bulge.) I hope it's a bacterial infection and it can still be cured vs a tumor, even though that means I'm a horrible betta parent. 

Could it be parasites? Or the bacterial infection - he has never had any tank mates. The only thing I can think of that would have introduced parasites or the bacteria is plants I got from Petsmart about 5 weeks ago. Could that have done it? 

Could it have been overfeeding and blocked intestines that he never recovered from?
I keep looking for white patches or other signs of illness but I don't see anything obvious.
Just that bulge on his side. Poor baby. : ( 
I'm praying for a miracle recovery.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks Freeflow246 for corroborating what I suspected was going on.

DoubleJ, it may not have been anything you introduced, there's usually bacteria and parasites in the water but the fish's immune system generally fights them off. Things occur that lowers their immune system and allows the bacteria to take hold. If you catch it early enough to remove the source of stress for the fish, they generally can recover on their own.

At this point, I'd hope for the best be prepared for the worst, but, he's been fighting for so long, may as well go down swinging.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sorry for the double post, but with the meds, follow the dosing recommendation on the package, iirc, it's a second dose tomorrow without a water change, then a 25% change with another dose the day after.

You're trying to slowly ramp up the concentration of the meds in his water without shocking his system.


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I know I've already said this, but you need to get rid of that nitrite. If you need to do water changes to keep it down, just replace any meds you took out with the water change.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

*Furan 2*

Thanks! I did the water change today. I will dose again tomorrow. He looked horrible yesterday, he looks better today. I got him to eat half of a flake of Daphia yesterday though. I was happy about that. Today, no eating, but still hanging in there. 
I will keep you all posted. 

Since the water is yellow, does that affect the water test strips? I want to retest the water, but I want reliable results.


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

It might a bit, but my water is almost brown with all the tanins and doesn't affect the test much.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

I'd test the water anyway, I don't believe the yellow water will affect your nitrate / nitrite readings that much.

Also, do you have frozen bloodworms on hand, it might tempt him to eat a little.


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## DoubleJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi everyone. 

Just thought I would update you all. My sweet and usually spunky betta died. I came home from work last night and he was just floating. He was sick for so long I kept waiting for him to swim over to me. Well... 

I am really sad. I just hope he did not suffer too much. : ( 

Thank you for all of your help and advice. I have learned so much on this website from everyone, and if I ever get another fish, I will be back! Only next time I will be asking questions about how to keep my fish happy and healthy, and not just pop in for help. I'm glad I tried the antibiotics, although I suspect it was too late for anything to have helped. 

One last thing. I don't know what he had, but I'm guessing it was bacterial something or other. What do I do with the water/tank/etc? I'm not ready to deal with it yet, but I know I have to someday. 

Thanks again.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sorry for your loss, he was such a little fighter I was hoping he'd pull through despite how weak he was. Wish I'd gotten in earlier and started the meds earlier, but we still never know if that would have made a difference.

As for the tank, I don't know exactly what happened, it was most likely a bacterial infection that took when his immune system got stressed, but for the 'better safe than sorry approach', here is an article on disinfecting your aquarium with bleach, just make sure the aquarium doesn't sit too long in the bleach and rinse, rinse, rinse. I've never used it, but I knew someone that used hydrogen peroxide to sterilize a tank, you just need to let it dry after. 

The one thing I will say is the water in the aquarium, it would be best if you could dispose of that somewhere other than down the drain.


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your boy. 

You can use a mixture of vinegar and water if you are uncomfortable using bleach, or if it will be a while before you get another fish you can do nothing. Most nasties won't survive long without water and a fish. 

Since the tank seems to have been in the middle of its cycle, if you want another fish in a few weeks, I would let it finish its cycle.


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