# Red Colored Plants



## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Last time I posted here for advice I didn't get any responses so I am hoping I won't be ignored about my new question.

*Tank info:*

Anyways, I bought a new fishtank which is a 40 gallon long (48" x 12" x 17") and I want to do a zen garden theme. 

*Lighting info:*

I am looking into buying this hood(s): http://www.petmountain.com/product/...queon-deluxe-led-full-hood-for-aquariums.html

(buying two of the 24" hoods, it comes with a day white bulb and I will be adding a second bulb. Either a Colormax or Beautymax (prolly Colormax because it uses red which red is needed for plant growth).

and

this hidden LED: http://www.petmountain.com/product/...-lighting-system-6-500k-white-460nm-blue.html

(buying the 21" light bar because I was thinking where the gap of no light is for the two hoods are, I can use the light bar to fill in the gap. This also adds even more light so I can hopefully have medium+ lighted plants).

*Substrate and fertilizers:*

The tank will have a mix of Eco-Complete and Flourite substrate (I have found this has worked wonders for my current 20 gallon long and I want to stick to this mix) and I plan on getting some seachem liquid ferts. If I can avoid it, I would like to stick to liquid ferts or liquid CO2 and not use CO2 that comes from the little glass things you hang on the tank.

*Questions:*

So I have some questions on options I can use for my setup. Going with the zen garden theme, I bought some Bonsai Driftwood trees from http://www.bonsaidriftwood.com/ . I either want to go with a green Bonsai tree look or possibly do a red Bonsai tree look to them so I thought to either use some Weeping moss to put on the trees or use some Red moss. 

Red Moss: http://theaquatank.com/Plant/Caloglossa-sp-beccarii-Red-moss
Weeping moss: http://www.aquamoss.net/Weeping-Moss/Weeping-Moss.htm

The mosses I know won't need much light but I saw some interesting ideas that used reddish Ludwigia plants as the Bonsai tree leaves. Out of the purple/red/orange variants of Ludwigia, what would be the best Ludwigia variant for this project with the specifications I posted above?

Ludwigia (Red/Super Red):
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=121

Ludwigia (Guinea):
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=162

Ludwigia (Rubin): http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=218

Ludwigia (Peruensis):
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=56

*Examples:*




























*Conclusion/question recap:*

What Ludwigia would be the best to use for the red bonsai tree idea?

What Ludwigia would be the easiest to use?

What Ludwigia doesn't grow super tall?

Can I trim the Ludwigia shorter and use the clippings for more branches and bushyness on the tree?

What Ludwigia can be anchored to the driftwood branches the best?

If Ludwigia isn't a good choice for red plants, what would?

Anyways, thanks for reading and I hope to get some ideas/help with this. I'm really looking forward to this project but I wanna make sure I pick out the best plants to achieve this.


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## JDAquatics (Jan 16, 2015)

I don't have any personal experience with the light you are looking at....but it does not look like it is designed to support plant growth. Even with the addition of the extra LED...I would recommend finding a light specifically designed for plant growth. Otherwise I would stick with mosses and low light/undemanding plants.

I think L. peruensis would look best for the bonsai tree idea
L dark red would probably be the easiest but grows big and fast.
the only L. I can think of that doesn't grow super tall is the ludwigia super red mini
Ludwigia can be trimmed no problem
Might also consider Alternanthera reineckii, also comes in a mini version.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you'd like an alternative to a hood, you can always go with a glass top and a Finnex Planted+ LED light! I grow red plants under them all the time. Your tank is a little tall so you may not get super red growth at the very bottom of the tank but you'll definitely get it midway and to the top like you'd want in the tree! The Planted+ are pretty strong lights, I run them on my 45, 55, 20 long and 4 gallon as well, I adore the lights!

And for glass tops, there is a 48 inch top that you could use! Same link as before: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+3781&pcatid=3781

There is actually a tutorial on how to make a sliding glass top if you like too, I didn't like the bendy black strip in the middle of the glass so I took that out and made my tops sliding! Super easy to remove when needed or just slide back and feed! I can link it to you in a PM since it is on a different forum, I'll have to make a tutorial of my own one day!

Anywho, that's what I'd do for top and lighting if you can't find a good hood. Plus, the glass tends to look sleeker and for me, it looks nicer and more presentable; great for a show tank.

As for your plants, I would stick with a Ludwigia or some other plant. To me, that red moss looks dead which doesn't give me any sort of zen feeling. Maybe you feel different and that's totally fine! I just did a bit of reading about it and apparently it's very hard to get rid of, it doesn't always appear dark red but can be like brown as well. If you want that effect then it seems to be your plant! Apparently it's also a freshwater micro algae as well! I find that to be super interesting.

I also second mini Alternanthera Reineckii. I've grown it in my 20 long and it stays about 2-5 inches or so, perfect for your tank! The roots will spread down through the branches so you may have to trim them time to time but it won't kill the plant at all!

But if you still want Ludwigia, Pruensis is rather large leafed so I wouldn't go with that unless you have a very large bonsai tree. L. Repens has a nice copper/red tone to it when it gets good lighting but it will grow tall so you will have to trim it. I don't know of any Ludwigia that actually stays small, there are no mini versions that I know of which is why I'd rather opt for the A. Reineckii.

Pretty much any stem plant can be grown like this, they may not attach readily to the branch and so you'll have to keep some sort of weight on it or string. Be prepared to redo the bonsai occasionally when the stems get leggy and you have to trim and reattach the new stems. It would be good to try to find some easy way to attach the stems, googling will be your friend for that! I have no real experience with attaching things other than moss but I'm sure someone has a solution out there!

If you've got more questions, ask away!


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

You posted almost right as I answered JD so I'm gonna put both quotes here together!

I do have another question about plants in general. Besides Ludwigia, mosses, Anubias and Reineckii, are there other plants that could be used for this idea?



lilnaugrim said:


> If you'd like an alternative to a hood, you can always go with a glass top and a Finnex Planted+ LED light! I grow red plants under them all the time. Your tank is a little tall so you may not get super red growth at the very bottom of the tank but you'll definitely get it midway and to the top like you'd want in the tree! The Planted+ are pretty strong lights, I run them on my 45, 55, 20 long and 4 gallon as well, I adore the lights!
> 
> As for the glass tops, I don't think there is one that specifically fits it, however if you have a center brace, you can get two 16 inch ones and that will pretty much cover the whole tank. Here's where you could get a nice top for cheap or most pet stores carry them as well if you didn't want to pay for shipping: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+3790&pcatid=3790
> 
> ...


I'm not planning on using any carpet plants or Ludwigia towards the bottom of the tank. I'll be having Pleco's in the tank and I know they will distroy anything I put on the bottom of the tank. I'll just have rocks, gravel, sand, and some random things. So if I keep the Ludwigia on the trees branches which are closer to the LED lights, that will form some form of reddish leaves?

You are right about the red moss btw, I bought some off ebay and I was expecting a crimson/brick red colored moss but instead it's like a chocolate brown. It also such a slow grower in my tank I really don't know if I want to wait months/years just for it to bush out.

I do indeed have a center brace for this new tank. Dude you'd love this tank! It's the same footprint as the 55 gallon long but it's not as tall! It's perfect for my little arms to reach into too! Anyways, I was considering a glass top but I'm not completely sure if I want one. Like I like the idea to get one but at the same time it will give off a lot of light inside the room which might upset my birds that are also in the room.



JDAquatics said:


> I don't have any personal experience with the light you are looking at....but it does not look like it is designed to support plant growth. Even with the addition of the extra LED...I would recommend finding a light specifically designed for plant growth. Otherwise I would stick with mosses and low light/undemanding plants.
> 
> I think L. peruensis would look best for the bonsai tree idea
> L dark red would probably be the easiest but grows big and fast.
> ...


So none of the Ludwigia's can be used under the light I want? (This might of already been answered in Lilgrim's post but I don't mind more opinions on the matter!)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh, I'm a derp, I totally read your tank as 48 inches tall, not long! I'm sorry! Let me redo my reply and check back in a few minutes!!

EDIT: Okay, edited my first post lol. Sorry about that again!

So even with a 12 inch tall tank, the lights you picked out aren't meant for plant growing. If you want nice plants, especially red, you need a good light. As I mentioned, I adore Finnex, specifically the Planted+. However! You can easily use their Stingray: http://www.aquavibrant.com/lighting/led-fixtures/finnex-stingray/finnex-tri-color-stingray.html And the 48 inch is nearly half the price of the Planted+ and will still grow your plants very well in that shallow of a tank. I wouldn't use that for red plants on a tank that is 18 inches or taller though, but it's great for low-medium light plants! The worst that would happen is some of your reds will grow in green is all.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

OMG I can't keep up with your responses LOL!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry!! Yeah, I goofed but I think I fixed it all.

Synopsis of my responses:

LED and glass top is best unless you really want a hood (glass also helps prevent evaporation)
Most Ludiwiga are big or get big for what you're planning.
A. Reineckii is a better plant, comes in a mini form like JDAquatics mentioned.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Sorry!! Yeah, I goofed but I think I fixed it all.
> 
> Synopsis of my responses:
> 
> ...


Okay this is a bit weird of a question, but if I want a hood, can I add a glass top under it for the whole evaporation thing? Has anyone ever tried that before?

I do have another question about plants in general. Besides Ludwigia, mosses, Anubias and Reineckii, are there other plants that could be used for this idea?

JD mentioned Super red mini version of Ludwigia, have you had any experience with that plant?


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## JDAquatics (Jan 16, 2015)

I have only seen the mini ludwigia in tissue cultures so far, and have not grown it out myself yet. Lil is correct about ludwigia sp. Growing too large. ...so I was thinking just the tips of new growth would work but that will require lots of work and constant replacement. ..
Also a fan of finnex as well as current usa led lights
Can't think of other plants that would work for you in that manner


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thank you both so much for your help and ideas! I knew I could get some great ideas and help from you two since you both have experience with lots of planted tanks 

Well this sounds like its gonna be a fun adventure and experiments with plants!

Am I able to buy the finnex LED lights and cover them inside a hood? Like say I take the empty Aqueon strips and place them ontop of the LED lights?


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## JDAquatics (Jan 16, 2015)

I don't think that would work with the end clips that hold the light on....


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

BambooTikiBettaGirl84 said:


> Okay this is a bit weird of a question, but if I want a hood, can I add a glass top under it for the whole evaporation thing? Has anyone ever tried that before?
> 
> I do have another question about plants in general. Besides Ludwigia, mosses, Anubias and Reineckii, are there other plants that could be used for this idea?
> 
> JD mentioned Super red mini version of Ludwigia, have you had any experience with that plant?


Well, suppose you could, it would just make the hood sit on top of the glass and not flush with the tank, it would also be a bit annoying for feeding time because you'd have to remove the hood to have the glass pull up unless you did the sliding glass but it'd still be a pain unfortunately. Not sure what you could do. If you're crafty and techy, maybe you could cut out the lights in the hood to replace it with the Finnex or whatever other LED you'd like (I too like Current Satellite!). I've never done anything like that so it's totally up to you! But unfortunately, if you want red plants, you will have to get a nice LED light or a good daylight Fluorescent (stay away from Incandescent, they just heat your water and do nothing for your plants! Stay away from stock LED and no-brand ones too, they're usually junk) 6,500 or 7,000K light. There are hoods you can get (though, I don't know how cheap they are for that size tank, likely they aren't cheap so be prepared for that!) for Fluorescent tube lighting that would suit your needs, you'd just have to make sure it's Daylight. I actually get my CFL (compact fluorescent light, the spiral ones) at Wal-Mart! They have the regular tubes too and they're so much cheaper than buying ones meant for planted tanks which they just jack up the price because it's "special" when it really isn't!

You could try some Rotala but any stem plant is going to be the same: you'll have to trim likely every other week once everything is settled and they're growing well. Perhaps Cryptocoryne Parva could work but it's a different type of leaf than you'd want but it is a nice small Crypt, grows slowly-ish but it's also green. Another green one that creeps is Hydrocotyle sp. Japan or any of the creeping plants like Creeping Jenny would also work. Could do Limnophila Aeromatica, it's green on top but purple/red underneath which looks really nice at night when the leaves start to close up for the night ^_^ But it's narrower leafed so I don't think it's what you want, just figured I'd mention it!

As far as easy plants that would attach themselves instead of you constantly having to trim, it's really only the mosses, anubias, java ferns, and bolbitis plants that do that but they're primarily all green unless you want to spend lots of money which...you probably don't I'm guessing!

If you didn't mind green, I'd suggest Java Fern 'Windlov', I adore it and have it in this tank below, all that on the back is windlov. This is in a 3 gallon to give you a sense of scale as well so it doesn't get super big, longest leaf I've had is about 4-5 inches but the babies grow fairly slowly so if you attached a bunch of babies to the bonsai, it'd likely take about 4-7 months to really get bigger and by then, you'd have a bunch of other babies that you can eventually switch out with the larger ones if you want to keep the tree on the smaller side.








Also, here is my rimless 4 gallon that I have two sprigs of Alternanthera Reineckii var. petite in it. The two little red sprigs, one is in my java moss just chillin and the other is planted on the right side lol. But it gives you a bit of scale on that plant. Again, this tank also has Finnex Planted+ twelve inch light on it, they are on 7 hours a day. I don't really do much in the way of ferts any more because I'm so busy but generally I'd dose daily with Excel at half dose (I have shrimp), Flourish, Iron, and Potassium are the staples.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Well, suppose you could, it would just make the hood sit on top of the glass and not flush with the tank, it would also be a bit annoying for feeding time because you'd have to remove the hood to have the glass pull up unless you did the sliding glass but it'd still be a pain unfortunately. Not sure what you could do. If you're crafty and techy, maybe you could cut out the lights in the hood to replace it with the Finnex or whatever other LED you'd like (I too like Current Satellite!). I've never done anything like that so it's totally up to you! But unfortunately, if you want red plants, you will have to get a nice LED light or a good daylight Fluorescent (stay away from Incandescent, they just heat your water and do nothing for your plants! Stay away from stock LED and no-brand ones too, they're usually junk) 6,500 or 7,000K light. There are hoods you can get (though, I don't know how cheap they are for that size tank, likely they aren't cheap so be prepared for that!) for Fluorescent tube lighting that would suit your needs, you'd just have to make sure it's Daylight. I actually get my CFL (compact fluorescent light, the spiral ones) at Wal-Mart! They have the regular tubes too and they're so much cheaper than buying ones meant for planted tanks which they just jack up the price because it's "special" when it really isn't!
> 
> You could try some Rotala but any stem plant is going to be the same: you'll have to trim likely every other week once everything is settled and they're growing well. Perhaps Cryptocoryne Parva could work but it's a different type of leaf than you'd want but it is a nice small Crypt, grows slowly-ish but it's also green. Another green one that creeps is Hydrocotyle sp. Japan or any of the creeping plants like Creeping Jenny would also work. Could do Limnophila Aeromatica, it's green on top but purple/red underneath which looks really nice at night when the leaves start to close up for the night ^_^ But it's narrower leafed so I don't think it's what you want, just figured I'd mention it!
> 
> ...


Okay this seems harder than I thought lol. I think I might stick to using mosses and Anubias in the tank. The Anubias I currently have has really cute tiny leaves so that could work for the Bonsai trees too. 

Oh just so you know, my current tank has the Marineland LED hood and I currently have Vesuvius growing like a weed in my tank. Pretty sure that plant is Medium/High lighting but it's gone to town in my tank and pretty much taken over the tank. So if the LED hood I have now makes the Vesuvius happy, I'm pretty sure the new lights will make these guys go bonkers.

Thank you two so much! I think I'm gonna just get the LED hood and stick with the low light plants (Anubias and mosses). Not that I don't wanna spend the extra money (I have 5k to spend on the tank if I want) I just don't think I wanna be always trimming red plants all the time.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Oh I forgot one other question.

Do you guys know anything about this plant? Bucephalandra Maestro Blue


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Vesuvius Sword is a low-medium light plant primarily. As long as you feed the roots, it's generally a happy plant. 

If you want green plants, there's a host of low-medium light plants you can do like Lobelia Cardinalis; that would be fine for the top of the tank where the tree would have it's leaves. Not sure how Glosso would do, it'd be a pain to root I'm sure. Starugyne Repens is another one, that's the plant I have in the 4 up in the middle front there between the petrified wood. Those are all plants on the higher end of medium but because they'd be higher in the tank, they should be just fine.

MarineLand is okay but only suitable for low-medium plants. Those are some of the LED's that aren't as great, you get what you pay for essentially. I have the Single Brite from a while ago and it doesn't put out that much light, bad for tall tanks but okay for short ones like my 20 longs.

EDIT: Buce's are great, very slow growing. They're a rhizome plant like Java Fern and Anubias.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Do you think the Buce's be a good choice if I don't go with Anubias or mosses? I kinda like the blue this one has but I'm a bit skeptical if it's truly THAT blue. They also have some reds and browns that look really neat too and thought maybe I could do like a red maple look if the brown is vibrant enough.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, they can be a bit expensive but yes, they are usually that blue if you get the right species. There are many different variants. I haven't personally grown them though, I just know a little bit is all. Googling can help find more specific answers if you need to on that.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

Well thank you JD and Lilgrim! This has deff taught me a lot and I am going to look into the different plant and lighting options.

I /might/ spill some money into getting a sprig or two of Anubias Stardust once I find a seller. I'm really liking the stardust patterns it has and I think it would be awesome in my tank.

If I have anymore questions or need something, I'll PM ya guys.


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## 206Betta (Jan 28, 2016)

IMO if you're going to do a bonzai tree. Then it should be with a moss that can be fairly thick but, doesn't droop down like weeping moss. It'll make it look like a completely different tree.

Think that either java moss or better, mini christmas moss would be perfect for a bonsai tree.


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## BambooTikiBettaGirl84 (Jun 29, 2014)

206Betta said:


> IMO if you're going to do a bonzai tree. Then it should be with a moss that can be fairly thick but, doesn't droop down like weeping moss. It'll make it look like a completely different tree.
> 
> Think that either java moss or better, mini christmas moss would be perfect for a bonsai tree.


I already have Java Moss in the current tank and it's just a pain. It spreads out too much even when I try to trim it and it gets very leggy.

I was wanting the weeping moss since some Japanese zen gardens have weeping cherry trees. Having the weeping moss could maybe resemble that and it's unique.

Thanks though!


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