# necropsy??



## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

im sorry if this is gross... i find it a little eerie and harder to look at this picture than it was to take... but as much as i dont want to see these pictures again... i want to know if this was what was wrong with St. Jimmy. my avatar is a picture of him the day or day after i got him, and attached is a picture shortly after he died... 3 days later... at first i thought it was cloudy eye... then fin rot... then maybe SBD... but after he died i read the necropsy sticky and im wondering if that was it... i posted all of his symptoms somewhere on here, ill find it and paste it here so you can see those as well. but based on the following what do you think it was so i can be prepared if it happens again...


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

This is what i posted when i was trying to find help for him...



> *Housing *
> *What size is your tank?* 5.5 gallons (about 22 Liters)
> *What temperature is your tank? *my thermometer is at 78
> *Does your tank have a filter?* yes but the current is too strong for my betta so i tend to keep it off most of the time
> ...


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## Aitas (Jan 31, 2012)

ammonia (or NH3) shouldn't be in the tank at all, and neither should nitrite! those are very poisonous, and cause sickness. also the level od nitrate you have - 40mg/l is way to high! it should be up to 20 max, 30 can already be lethal.
I assume your tank was not cycled.

You at least know what killed him now, sorry to say.:-(


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

After filtering the water for 24 hours I put my new fish in the same tank and then got the water tested. He is fine and seems to be happy. I've changed the water since then but I don't think that's what it was...


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## Bonbonisbff (Jan 1, 2012)

Always keep your filter on! If you turn it off, some of the beneficial bacteria will die, and the nitrate and nitrite levels will go up. If the filter current is too strong, I suggest baffling it. There is a sticky somewhere with How-To instructions. Good Luck!


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

ive always read that not having a filter is fine. i have a 5.5 gallon tank so i just do water changes every week


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## Aitas (Jan 31, 2012)

I don't get it. Why do you ask for help if you don't intend to listen and at least try the suggestions people give you to help?

Those water levels were poisonous. If you don't believe, try drinking a glass of that water and you'll see my point very clearly, when you won't be able to decide what you wanna do with the toiet for a week; to either sit on it or hug it?!


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## freemike (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't think it was the nitrates directly. That usually effects the gills and doesn't turn the fish black. Also that water was tested after the fish was dead and obviously the black part of that fish had already died and was decomposing in the water which didn't help the water quality. Something was wrong with that fish other than bad water... The nitrate hitting that level may have pushed him over the edge quicker but something else was going to kill that fish even if it was in immaculate water.


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## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

OMGemily said:


> ive always read that not having a filter is fine. i have a 5.5 gallon tank so i just do water changes every week


You are right. It is fine to not have a filter if you do 100% water changes weekly. However, it is very dangerous to improperly use a filter. You can either have a tank with no filter or have a tank with a filter on 24/7. You can't have a tank with a filter you turn off and on. It has to be one or the other. If you don't want to run the filter continously, then take it out of the set up all together. If you want to use a filter, but the flow is too high, then baffle it. 

The way I baffle my filters is a mix of two methods. On the intake tube I stick on a piece of filter sponge. I cut a little X in the middle with a knife and then stick the tube in the sponge. For the out let, I use the water bottle method found on this sticky. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30139

If you still have trouble with the current then the filter is too strong.

Edit: I should mention that I have a HOB filter. If you have a canister filter, then you baffle the intake with aqaurium sponge by cutting a piece big enough to cover all the grates and holding it in place with a rubber band. The water bottle baffle still works for both.


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

Aitas said:


> I don't get it. Why do you ask for help if you don't intend to listen and at least try the suggestions people give you to help?
> 
> Those water levels were poisonous. If you don't believe, try drinking a glass of that water and you'll see my point very clearly, when you won't be able to decide what you wanna do with the toiet for a week; to either sit on it or hug it?!


 i think youre being very rude. i cant try anything when my fish is already dead... also by the time this thread got responses i had already messaged sakura8 to ask her opinion. she said it looked like necropsy and that the disease isnt caused by bad water. i realize my water was bad and ive changed it. therefore i did what you advised before you said it. you dont have to be a jerk about it. i was simply giving more information because i realized i hadnt posted about my new fish being ok in the water. i may not be an expert in fish but im not stupid. if this fish was ok in the same water, that probably wasnt why the first one died. I realize that it didnt help and i realize that i shouldve known to test it. but theres still no reason to be rude


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

SnowySurface said:


> You are right. It is fine to not have a filter if you do 100% water changes weekly. However, it is very dangerous to improperly use a filter. You can either have a tank with no filter or have a tank with a filter on 24/7. You can't have a tank with a filter you turn off and on. It has to be one or the other. If you don't want to run the filter continously, then take it out of the set up all together. If you want to use a filter, but the flow is too high, then baffle it.


i didnt realize that was bad, i only turned it on twice when i didnt have fish in the tank. but if you dont mind me asking, why is it bad?
EDIT: just read the previous comment about beneficial bacteria dying. im still curious to whether or not thats the only thing that happens though?



> Edit: I should mention that I have a HOB filter. If you have a canister filter, then you baffle the intake with aqaurium sponge by cutting a piece big enough to cover all the grates and holding it in place with a rubber band. The water bottle baffle still works for both.


what are hob and canister filters?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

1) you do not need a filter if you keep up with water changes



> water levels were poisonous. If you don't believe, try drinking a glass of that water and you'll see my point very clearly, when you won't be able to decide what you wanna do with the toiet for a week; to either sit on it or hug it?!


2) although .5 ammonia isn't good, I highly doubt it would of killed your betta. Almost all the bettas I have adopted (and at one point I had 23 at one time), their ammonia levels in their cups were at least a 1.0. Most were 4.0 or higher. 
Plus a fish suffering from ammonia poising does not turn rust colored.

How long have you had him?


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> 2) although .5 ammonia isn't good, I highly doubt it would of killed your betta. Almost all the bettas I have adopted (and at one point I had 23 at one time), their ammonia levels in their cups were at least a 1.0. Most were 4.0 or higher.
> Plus a fish suffering from ammonia poising does not turn rust colored.
> 
> How long have you had him?


petsmarts little test paper thing said they were all withing normal range but at the very top of it. i had him for four days... about a day and a half in a one gallon unheated tank, and then the rest in a 5.5 gallon heated tank with plants... my new betta Antione ive had for about a week now and hes happy as can be  although hes had a few slight troubles with eating


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Im guessing he was sick when you got him. Alot of times they may look healthy but then you get them home and they die a day or so latter. I think alot has to do with stress from shipping and lack of care by petco/petsmart/walmart. Plus if they dont change their water, ammonia builds up quickly. The water may look clean, but obviously it's not.

Paper tests aren't very accurate and they are hard to read. Half the time I couldn't even tell what color it was supposed to be. If you can get the ammonia test kit by API, it's helpful to have. If not, not a big deal, unless you have a filter running.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Im guessing he was sick when you got him. Alot of times they may look healthy but then you get them home and they die a day or so latter. I think alot has to do with stress from shipping and lack of care by petco/petsmart/walmart. Plus if they dont change their water, ammonia builds up quickly. The water may look clean, but obviously it's not.

Paper tests aren't very accurate and they are hard to read. Half the time I couldn't even tell what color it was supposed to be. If you can get the ammonia test kit by API, it's helpful to have. If not, not a big deal, unless you have a filter running. 

what issues does the new guy have with eatting? Does he spit it out? If so, that's pretty normal.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

litmus paper is bogus. sorry, but humidity, accidental water damage and age can all benefit to a wrong reading. i use API master kit, liquid tests that are very accurate with helpful cards.

also, most store bettas I got came from water that was minimum .5 (up to 1.0) for ammonia. Only the really weak ones with no color lacked the chance to survive (Admiral). Others were rotted away (Sarah and Suzi) so they never had a chance either. 

However, he does look very similar to what Maine looked... usually happens overnight, with the look of someone taking a lighter to the fish's fins. Later it continues, leaving decayed fins, and even reaching the body where the scales remain and the tissue is completely dead.


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

im pretty sure they used the API thing to test it. i just meant the papers that told about the chemicals and stuff and that they wrote the readings on


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## OMGemily (Feb 28, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> what issues does the new guy have with eatting? Does he spit it out? If so, that's pretty normal.


he only goes after the pellets when they sink, but i think theyre too big for him to eat because sometimes he spits them out and tries again and then he kind of flicks his head up for a bit, like hes trying to swallow and then cough it back up and swallow it again. but when i give him flakes he doesnt acknowledge them :/ i tried sinking the flakes and he chased them once but them spit it back out and didnt eat them again after that. ive also tried cutting the pellets with my nails to make them smaller but he hasnt even tried eating them


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## iceyrose (Feb 17, 2012)

* sorry for ur loss that's terrible (Rip little buddy)
Ps.I had a guys being mean to me yesterday too grrr


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