# Adf?



## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

What do I feed them? My Shrimp buddies all died on me, Finn killed 4 of them, then the others lasted nearly a month, and they were surprisingly healthy... Until they decided to explore Finn's side of the divided tank. I woke up to 3 dead shrimp and one just straight up missing... I want to try some ADF, since they're bigger and less prone to dying because Finn picks on them, and they won't be able to get to Finn's side if I have to move them over to McKinley's to get them away from Finn lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Most shrimp die unless placed in a tank that has been completely cycled for at least a month; they are extremely sensitive to water parameters and are easily weakened. I waited two months and had complete success. They also need a tank that is like a jungle both for food and for safety. They can die from the stress of being chased then the Betta has an opportunity feed. A lot of people think their Betta kill shrimp and some do; but only if the shrimp has been compromised or there isn't enough cover or enough good hides for the shimp to avoid the predator.

ADF aren't as sensitive but they are not good with aggressive fish; they will hide all of the time. And they _will_ die if Finn picks on them. They don't have the protection of scales and bites inflicted by Finn can easily become infected.

You can have six on each side of the 20 and need a minimum of three as they are extremely social and like to lay on each other. You also need good hides for them. I use a hollowed out half of a large Cholla log that the Betta can't enter.

You cannot feed them freeze-dried foods or it will bloat them. I feed live Grindal worms and frozen bloodworms, Mysis and Brine shrimp. I also feed HGH (or HBH...can't remember) Frog and Tadpole Bites and ReptoTreads bloodworms in a gel along with some sun-dried Gammarus.

This is also Pie the Betta's diet supplemented with NLS pellets. He won't touch the Frog and Tadpole Bites. 

I'd respect Finn's apparent wish to live alone.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

The shrimp all died from stress of being chased. There were no bite marks, and the one that went completely missing I'm sure is in the tank somewhere, probably dead and hiding. I wasn't actually planning on putting and in Finn's side for now, mostly McKinley's and maybe Pandora's side.. And I don't feed anything freezedried anyway. Once I found out how bad it was I threw away the bloodworms I had bought. Now they get pellets and frozen shrimps. I wanted to get 3 or 4 for McKinley's side, since he actually played with an enjoyed having his shrimp buddies around. I swear, he mourned the loss of his guys.. He's been looking around his tank a little sullen looking for them lately. Poor Guy. 

I might have looked into giving Finn a friend too, since when the boys were jumping ship right after I divided the tank, Finn actually seemed happy being in the same side as McKinley... I was NOT having that, tho, Noooo way. He got moved back immediately, and I patched any and every opening he seemed to find. He flares at McKinley when he can see him thru the divider,but when they managed to be on the same side, Finn just swam up to and rested against McKinley all sweet and cozy like... I'm sure it was all a ruse, tho. The shrimp were little jerks, tho, (partially why I liked them lol) so i'm sure that had a lot to do with Finn's aggression towards them, tho I never saw him nip at them, to be honest. He just chased and intimidated them. I'm very cautious, tho, and I'm not under any misconceptions that my Finn is an angel at all lol. I know he killed the shrimps, and I have no doubts about it. I know it wasn't a water quality or non-cycled thing, because even in the divided tank, they thrived on McKinley's side and only died on Finn's. I'd like to SEE how he took ADF, but I am still def leaning towards a big fat NO for Finn. 

Thank you for all the information, too. I'll have to look for all that at my local store. I was going to get McKinley some ADF the other day while I was there, but I know they're social creatures and need to be in groups, but they only had one available... I'm waiting til they have more and I'm a little more educated on the care of them.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't know if Sam can ship them but I get all of mine from a friend in California; as have several people on the forum. Always healthy and active from Day 1.

He sells on eBay as fishonlinerus. Tell him I sent you. Or send a PM and I'll give you his email.


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## fernielou (May 19, 2015)

I have one very aggressive betta and I don't like the lack of options you have. My oldest is so peaceful! I put my mystery snails with him and yhey are fine. Any fish though...no way!


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Lack of options?

As far as stores? I have 1 mini PetCo that only had one left and a decently taken care of PetZoo in town, otherwise I can drive into Anchorage where they have a my favorite aquatic store,Alaska Coral Fanatics, which is a VERY good aquatics only store who can get me ADF if they're out


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## fernielou (May 19, 2015)

Sorry I meant lack of options when you have a super feisty betta. I love tank mates


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Oh! Gotcha! Lol. Yeah. I've only attempted the shrimps so far... I'm hoping the adf might be big enough, and mellow enough to not piss off poor Finn... But if Finn wants to be alone, he can be alone. I have 2 other Betta's and another half 20L I can put tank mates with, and I'll be setting up a 10gallon tank with Cory's or who knows what yet, guppies? Dunno. Haven't made up my mind! So of Finn wants a life of solitude, at least one have other chances for tank mates lol


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## pftrex (Feb 27, 2015)

Just have a back-up plan in case none of your bettas want any companions! Very often, that is the case, as much as we as pet-owners would love to have a varied tank and social-butterfly bettas.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I have an empty half of a 20L right now, plus an empty 10L, and 2 empty 5.5gallon tanks too... and a 4 gallon tank that's empty... but that's my hospital tank. If NONE want a companion, I'm set. lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I've only had three Betta in 45+ years that didn't have tank mates and that wasn't because of aggression but because they needed tanks too small for them. 

I'm sure there are aggressive Betta I've just been blessed to not have one. But in a heavily-planted tank one is much more assured of success than the Iwagumi-style which so many have.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

And my tanks are indeed heavily planted now... After my score from Craigslist, there are soooooo many plants to hide in.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I know.  That's great! I know you've seen my tanks. I wasn't satisfied they were heavy enough so just added a new order from JDAquatics with the most gorgeous HUGE St. Elmo's Fire Sword. It's in my 8.

BTW, sitting here now listening to my ADF "sing." Tanks are on my end of the sofa and I have a hinged Zilla Reptile Screen on the ADF tank.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

woohoo! That's awesome. What else should I know about keeping ADF?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

They're really easy but they are delicate and you need to house them with an eye to safety.

I prefer hinged Zilla Reptile Hoods for them. I know water evaporates easier in open tanks but the frog forums seem to recommend them over glass canopies. Plus it's easier to hear them sing. 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7796

1. A variety of frozen or sun-dried foods; live is great ~ I feed Grindal Worms.
2. Good hides
3. No decor that can trap them or doesn't have an outlet. They swim straight up and if something doesn't have a top they can drown trying to figure out the exit (not brightest bulbs in the package)
4. Hiding place open on both ends are not necessary but mine seem to prefer them to the terra cotta pots
5. Shade and floating plants like Dwarf Water Lettuce; they're practically blind and can't handle bright aquariums
5. No large rocks that can trap their legs
6. A gentle filter; I find the AquaTop IF200 series works great because the suction isn't so strong as to trap their legs

Being trapped is the thing you really have to watch out for. People have reported their ADF drowning by being stuck or trapped.


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## charliegill110 (May 19, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> They're really easy but they are delicate and you need to house them with an eye to safety.
> 
> I prefer hinged Zilla Reptile Hoods for them. I know water evaporates easier in open tanks but the frog forums seem to recommend them over glass canopies. Plus it's easier to hear them sing.
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7796
> ...


do you have a journal on here? i'd love to read about your betta and froggy adventures. and i feel like you really know what you are doing so i could learn from you.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

What a sweet compliment! Thank you.

I've been thinking about a journal but, like so many other things, haven't been able to get around to it. :-(


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## charliegill110 (May 19, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> What a sweet compliment! Thank you.
> 
> I've been thinking about a journal but, like so many other things, haven't been able to get around to it. :-(


your welcome! i get what you mean about not getting around to it, i had one when i first started on here but eventually stopped posting  i did make a new one though so i'm trying to keep that one up


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

Do i need anything at the top of the tank for them to "bask" on? or do they hang out only underwater? And are they tank escape artists...???


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## Pinkieswear (Feb 20, 2015)

I had a couple missing shrimp... I found them eventually. They had zoomed a little too far away from the betta, and out the top of the tank.  poor guys


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

My ADF stay mostly at the bottom of the tank. They do "Zen" which is where they float completely motionless.

Escape artists? Read this 

ADF Don't Hop

or if that doesn't work:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=559546


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

That may not work for me then since a small part of my tanks are open cause the hood/canopy is resting on the filter... I don't want them escaping and becoming a kitty treat....


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## AndreDecasa (Apr 9, 2014)

ADF's need live food, Betta fish fins moves. The ADF's may try to snag the tail because they will think It is food. They also have poor eyesight.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Dublynn: Is there no way to make cutouts for the filter, etc., so you don't have to rest the hood or canopy on them? You can buy those plastic things separately.

ADF don't _need_ live food athough I do feed mine live Grinda Worms. They do well on frozen such as bloodworms, Brine and Mysis Shrimp and soft foods specifically for aquatic frogs. Because, as Andre Decasa noted, they are almost blind so you have to be careful when feeding them in a mixed species tank so they don't starve. This is especially true of you have aggressive eaters.

In the time I've kept them they've never gone after a Betta's tail....although they have knocked them out of the way zooming to the top for air. ;-)


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## AndreDecasa (Apr 9, 2014)

I had mine snag my female betta's anal fin, A FEMALE ONE. How did he even manage to snag a small tail. Must be really hungry lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Andre Decasa said:


> I had mine snag my female betta's anal fin, A FEMALE ONE. How did he even manage to snag a small tail. Must be really hungry lol


Or lucky. :-D

I've seen mine grab another ADF's foot in their excitement when I feed.


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## charliegill110 (May 19, 2014)

FinnDublynn said:


> That may not work for me then since a small part of my tanks are open cause the hood/canopy is resting on the filter... I don't want them escaping and becoming a kitty treat....


i have a hood that has gaps as well, go i got craft mesh and glued it to the outside (where it will not come in any contact with the inside of the tank) of the hood. and i am going to sew a little bit of additional on to the mesh just to completely 100% ensure no escapes. i don't think i am explaining this well so i can take some pictures of it if you want..


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I do understand lol. I can fanangle it so it's completely closed, but the one that has problems I'm picking up a glass canopy for anyways, then I won't have a problem I don't think. Then I can get me some froggies!!


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## KuRiSu420 (Apr 25, 2015)

*Adf*

My two ADFs got along with my male Betta for the most part, but I will say my male ADF has a more aggressive appetite than my female, and twice did bite my betta's tail during feeding time. (Buddy used to try and steal some blood worms when I fed the frogs) The frog did no physical damage and let go when he realized it wasn't food, but I imagine it did stress him out a bit.

Make sure you have hiding places for your frogs if you do decide to get them. I would suggest something cave like so they don't feel the need to hide under things. I used two small terracotta pots on their side.

Also know they are super sensitive to water parameters, my female usually sheds every water change, but my male I haven't actually seen shed yet.

I feed mine frozen blood worms with a pair of medical tweezers. Also frozen brine shrimp with spirulina algea but it's a lot messier than blood worms. I also feed my baby betta Chibi the same things lol. Oh, I also bought some Reptomin Frog bites too which they will eat if they can find it!

As for escaping, I haven't had a problem with it but I know some people have. From what I've read they frantically try to escape if the water conditions are sub par. Mine only "zen" for a few minutes at a time before returning to the bottom, and their hind legs are below the surface not floating too. They also don't like to swim up more than 10 inches so make sure they don't have to go any further than that for air, and keep the water line at least an inch below.

Sorry for being so long winded, just thought I'd chime in with my experiences. My betta Buddy passed away so they don't have a betta tank mate anymore, but I'm planning on adding another one in the near future.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

I always love getting good information! So thank you!


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## Trapper (May 5, 2015)

Most of what I know has been covered but I will say mine took the reptomin frog bites as a staple


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