# Finding a suitable female



## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

Hey folks,

New to the forum, but not new to bettas! When I was a younger fella I had several and bred them a couple of times. Fast forward about 15 years and several salt tanks later, I'd decided to get back into freshwater. I was quickly bitten by the betta bug again (this species has come A LONNNG WAY in that time) and now have a great little set up at work. Well, long story short I was purchasing some food at the LFS and came across this little guy languishing away in a dirty cup. I could tell he was pretty, but I couldn't really tell how striking he was until a few days later when his colors really started to pop and he starting looking healthier.

Even after reefkeeping for several years I honestly feel that this betta may be the prettiest fish I've ever owned. It really has me considering breeding him to keep his bloodline going. 

That said, I'm no pro-breeder and would love same advice on not just where to find a suitable female (online go to stores for you guys), but also what I should look for with regards to colorage to produce the same iridescence and coloration. 

Look forward to hearing from y'all!

Thanks!

-Matt


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## Charc14 (Aug 27, 2014)

I think aquabid is a good place, ebay has some good ones sometimes too.

I would go with either a blue female, or a black orchid female. 
I really don't know anything about breeding to tell you the truth, but I'm learning and I'm pretty sure that the girls I mentioned would be right. Get some one elses opinion too though because I may be wrong  

By the way he truly is gorgeous! Whats his name?


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## Nimble (Aug 31, 2014)

A Black Orchid HM female would be an appropriate breeding partner. Maybe a HMPK with a good body if you want to reduce the finnage at all, but I honestly prefer long fins to short.

Another Dragonscale or Metallic Betta with would be good as well, particularly with as little Red as possible.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

Charc14 said:


> I think aquabid is a good place, ebay has some good ones sometimes too.
> 
> I would go with either a blue female, or a black orchid female.
> I really don't know anything about breeding to tell you the truth, but I'm learning and I'm pretty sure that the girls I mentioned would be right. Get some one elses opinion too though because I may be wrong
> ...


Thank you both for your advice! 

And thank you, I sure thought so as well!

I don't know yet...I'll prob name him something silly like Fred or something...that or the fiance will name him something even more silly...I'll have to think on it!

I did just go find a really pretty blue crowntail female and an orange crowntail female (for my blue bodied/orange finned crowntail male)...I'll let them get settled and post some pics of them too!

-Matt


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Yes, definitely pair that gorgeous blue to black orchid, blue, or blue DS. Make sure you don't pair him with a fish that has any red...that is a nice, clean color, and you'd like to keep it that way.

When he flares, does he reach 180?


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

hrutan said:


> Yes, definitely pair that gorgeous blue to black orchid, blue, or blue DS. Make sure you don't pair him with a fish that has any red...that is a nice, clean color, and you'd like to keep it that way.
> 
> When he flares, does he reach 180?


hrutan, 

Thanks for the advice. Since I'm just getting back into the betta game; do you have any suggestions on where to find a nice female like you listed above? 

I finally got some pics of him flaring after getting a female from the LFS (she's in the community tank, but she's more a of an orangey-blue color, so I'm guessing she has the red in her).

Pretty sure he's a full 180:


Sorry, it's a reef light and it kind of washes him out sometimes:


Him swimming off, rear view:


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Ebay or Aquabid are good choices. There's also a few sales groups through Facebook, if you know where to look.

In this season, prepare to pay for Express mail. Priority might get bumped by all the presents people are ordering...which is bad if a mail truck gets left outside in snowy weather.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

+1 to hrutan's remarks about Express Mail, and add to the reasons she already outlined that you don't really want your fish being in cold weather any longer than they have to be, especially if you live in a climate experiencing sub-freezing temps right now.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

hrutan said:


> Ebay or Aquabid are good choices. There's also a few sales groups through Facebook, if you know where to look.
> 
> In this season, prepare to pay for Express mail. Priority might get bumped by all the presents people are ordering...which is bad if a mail truck gets left outside in snowy weather.





kevinap2 said:


> +1 to hrutan's remarks about Express Mail, and add to the reasons she already outlined that you don't really want your fish being in cold weather any longer than they have to be, especially if you live in a climate experiencing sub-freezing temps right now.



Thanks fellas I'll definitely do that; I'll keep my eyes open locally as well. Someone is putting this bloodline out in this area so maybe I'll luck across a nice little females.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Nice find!!!
Get a female with 4 ray branching (fin bone structure) . . . your male has excessive branching. Pairing him to an excessive ray female will produce rose tails. Look for one with a dorsal that opens like a fan or that is about a half circle - try not using females with a triangular shaped dorsal. 

Color depends on you. If you like his color, black or irid dragon scale would be nice. Avoid anything with red. But if you like colorful multis, any color would do.


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## Nimble (Aug 31, 2014)

indjo said:


> Nice find!!!
> Get a female with 4 ray branching (fin bone structure) . . . your male has excessive branching. Pairing him to an excessive ray female will produce rose tails. Look for one with a dorsal that opens like a fan or that is about a half circle - try not using females with a triangular shaped dorsal.
> 
> Color depends on you. If you like his color, black or irid dragon scale would be nice. Avoid anything with red. But if you like colorful multis, any color would do.


Why is it that so many Halfmoons have issues with excessive branching, lately? Why are breeders pushing for such a ridiculous amount of spread. Does excessive branching make it easier to achieve a perfect 180 Halfmoon spread?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Yes, breeding a rosetail to an hm, or an OHM to an HM, gives a higher percentage of HMs and OHMs. There are some lines of rosetail that are free of x-factor, as well (!!), however it is a big gamble to breed rosetails because you don't know their genetics. You can't trust the breeder's word, because while most of them are wonderful people, there are always a few that are dishonest, corrupt, or simply don't understand enough about genetics to know what you're asking about.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

+1 hrutan

4 ray long fins often DO NOT spread 180*, while most 8 ray will. SO people are trying to produce more 8 rays by breeding a pair of 8 ray (4 ray x 8 ray will produce more 4 ray than 8). Unfortunately these pairing will also produce rose tails. If the roses were not inbred or if this generation were not inbred, there is more chance of producing "clean" roses. But if we buy the rose tails, we DO NOT know exactly how they were bred and we wouldn't know if they are "clean" or not. That's why I always advise to produce your own roses. . . . eventually breeding a pair of "clean" rose will be safe. BUT I would not advise constantly breeding rose to rose.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

Hey guys, thanks so much for the help. I'm actually facing a more serious issue since I got home from work. I found him wedged between the glass and the heater and he scarred himself and about wore himself to death. 

I freed him and have the light off. He's resting right now, breathing deeply. Anything else I can do to reduce his stress? I could care less about his breeding or whether the scar heals. I just would like to make sure he gets healthy.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

Good news is that he's eating. Swimming about a little but still mainly resting on the ground. Still concerned but an appetite makes me feel a little better.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Ouch. If he's eating, there's hope. Keep his water pristine. If you have Stress-Coat, use it. If you don't, you may wish to cut up a cube of Aloe-vera if you have access to that (peel it, you only want the gooey inside bit). Give him Indian Almond Leaf if you have it (good for scale and skin problems), or Oak Leaf if you don't have IAL - be sure it's free of pesticides. The leaf should be fully dry and clean.

Some people suggest salt as an antiseptic. 1 tsp / gallon, predissolved, is the most common therapeutic dose.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

+1 hrutan. And lower his water if possible - just a precaution


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

hrutan said:


> Ouch. If he's eating, there's hope. Keep his water pristine. If you have Stress-Coat, use it. If you don't, you may wish to cut up a cube of Aloe-vera if you have access to that (peel it, you only want the gooey inside bit). Give him Indian Almond Leaf if you have it (good for scale and skin problems), or Oak Leaf if you don't have IAL - be sure it's free of pesticides. The leaf should be fully dry and clean.
> 
> Some people suggest salt as an antiseptic. 1 tsp / gallon, predissolved, is the most common therapeutic dose.


Thanks very much, I let him set as-is last night and today as I came back today and he's still trying to swim around some but I can tell he's sore/it's sensitive. I did a 40% water change and then added some of the API EM Erythromycin treatment. He's still active and attempting to eat (not being especially successful). He tires quickly and settles back to the bottom though. Still touch and go, worried for the little fella.



indjo said:


> +1 hrutan. And lower his water if possible - just a precaution


indjo, what does lowering the water level accomplish?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It makes it easier for him to reach the surface to breathe. They don't pull much oxygen from the water - they rely on atmospheric air. When he swims to the top and takes a "sip" of air, he's breathing - as long as you can keep the water heated, you want it as low as possible. That lets him rest more, so he can use his strength for healing, instead. I feel a little stupid for not thinking about that.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

hrutan said:


> It makes it easier for him to reach the surface to breathe. They don't pull much oxygen from the water - they rely on atmospheric air. When he swims to the top and takes a "sip" of air, he's breathing - as long as you can keep the water heated, you want it as low as possible. That lets him rest more, so he can use his strength for healing, instead. I feel a little stupid for not thinking about that.


I feel a little stupid for not thinking about that as well...because these are things I knew... *headslap*


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Neither of you are stupid. Its normal to overlook certain details, specially when experiencing problems. :lol:

Hope he recovers quickly.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

indjo said:


> Neither of you are stupid. Its normal to overlook certain details, specially when experiencing problems. :lol:
> 
> Hope he recovers quickly.


Thanks guys!

So I came home and though the front 3/4 of the wound is looking better, the rear 1/4 is *clearly* covered in a fungus. I quickly mixed a 1/4 packet of the API fungus cure that I have in a separate container then added to the aquarium. Now I'm perplexed; should I do the second dose of the Erythromycin treatment or will there be a negative reaction with the Fungus cure?!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Usually, infections are bacterial rather than fungal, despite looking like a fungus - did it look as though the fish had cottony growth? Do you have pics? Please, consider filling out a form on the "Disease and Emergencies" thread, with pictures and details - there's a sticky at the top of that section of the forum with instructions.

I have no idea if the medications will interact with each other.


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## Arcole (Nov 28, 2014)

hrutan said:


> Usually, infections are bacterial rather than fungal, despite looking like a fungus - did it look as though the fish had cottony growth? Do you have pics? Please, consider filling out a form on the "Disease and Emergencies" thread, with pictures and details - there's a sticky at the top of that section of the forum with instructions.
> 
> I have no idea if the medications will interact with each other.


hrutan,

Thanks for responding so quickly. I am quite sure it was a fungal infection; very obvious white-cottony fluff sticking right out of the wound. 

I tried taking a picture, but none of them are coming out properly. 

I did end up doing an additional dose of the antibiotic after reading elsewhere that the API Fungus Cure is more or less a dye. His tank is right next to my couch and he keeps coming up to the side and interacting with me. We wears himself out though and rests a lot. 

Sure hoping the little fella makes it.

ps, I'd put up a post in the suggested forum but I've now treated with two medications - if he's not looking any better tomorrow I'll post up.

Thanks again fellas,

-Matt


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