# Spoon Head Trait



## Keyoda (Jan 15, 2011)

Spoon-head, haunch-back whatever you call it, it's generally considered an undesirable BODY form.

Anyone know if spoon-head is dominant or hard to breed out while retaining finnage?


----------



## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

DON'T breed something like that. Don't even attempt it, the fry will carry it in their genes and then there will be many generations of deformed fry from this )=

Thanks for asking first. Many irresponsible breeders don't ask and cause problems, but it's good when someone cares.


----------



## Keyoda (Jan 15, 2011)

Even if his sibling sister shows nice symmetry? 
I'm wondering how strong this trait is since he shows it while she does not.


----------



## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Well if it's a sibling of one and she's bred to a Betta from a different line it should be good... I thought you meant breeding a Betta with that problem.

Don't know much, but while there is always a risk of bad body shape, If it's like that then IMO you should be good. Hopefully some more members have advice to lend...?


----------



## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I think he meant should he still not breed him even though his sister has a good shape.


----------



## Betta Slave (Dec 8, 2009)

Even if his sister has a good body form, don't breed. Since he has a dip in his head, she'd probably carry that gene as well, and some/most of the fry would need to be culled because of that.

Edit- Honestly, I wouldn't breed his sister to an unrelated male, either... again, she could carry that gene and that would result in some bad fry.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Do you have any pictures? How bad is it? My first breeder male, Sid, had a slightly dipped head. Nothing too serious and he made 1st place in his class at a show so it obviously wasn't seen as a fault.

Some people think any form of a dip is bad. Personally I want to see no dip at all but paired with a female with a good topline I think it should be easy to correct.


Pictures would really help. Depending on how drastic it is is going to determine if he should be bred.


----------



## Martinismommy (Dec 2, 2010)

Photo's will help a lot to answer this question....A LOT of top winning Betta fish have dips behind the eyes...And most of the imports I have brought in do....I think newbies are confusing this look with some of the deformities that the DT's produce...


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I also think people confuse dippy heads with bent spines.

This was my guy...









Bad picture but you can see he had a little dip in his head. He was still a gorgeous fish. I wish I would have been able to get a good spawn from him before he died.


----------



## Betta Slave (Dec 8, 2009)

Oh. Yeah, I was confusing that... Keyoda, I'll let the more experienced breeders help you with this one.


----------



## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah His sister might or might not have this problem in her genetics... I couldn't tell what you were talking about before. I personally wouldn't breed his sister, because if you breed her outside of her line there's still a slight risk, inside there's a major risk, and if you want to produce show quality fry (Like I'll be aiming for when I breed) Then don't breed her. But, if you breed her to a Betta outside of the line and you aren't going for show quality, then go for it.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

If he just has a dippy head he's fine to breed. Dippy heads aren't faults unless it's really severe in which case most likely it is a bent spine issue. Fish with bent spines shouldn't be bred regardless of whether the female is related or not.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

In terms of outcomes in offspring, dippy head, hunch-back and flat shoulder/back shouldn't be that severe as long as you out breed to a good form. But I agree with previous comments that you will have the genes in your line which will appear from time to time. 

If you want to play it safe, specially when targeting show quality, it would be best to use good formed breeders .... preferably that doesn't have such faults in their genetic history. You see many big breeders cross HM and PK to DT hoping to get larger dorsal, so the genes exist in many of their lines (dippy head and hunch-back) and can only be fixed through tight selection in future breeding.

I often get the above faults (small percentage) from good formed parents - specially when I use newly bought breeders. This suggests that the gene is recessive yet it exists.


----------



## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I think it depends on the extent of the trait. Small dips aren't that bad.


----------

