# Is substrate needed for a betta?



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Some say yes, some say no....so what is it? What do you think? Why?


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Without substrate you would want clean up the poop daily as there is nothing absorb it. I saw one person had painted the bottom of their tank in some neat way so that might be an option. I find the water stays fresher with it but initially when I get fish they often are in quarantine without it. I figure it doesn't give parasites a place to stay and lay eggs if they have them.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

jadaBlu said:


> Without substrate you would want clean up the poop daily as there is nothing absorb it. I saw one person had painted the bottom of their tank in some neat way so that might be an option. I find the water stays fresher with it but initially when I get fish they often are in quarantine without it. I figure it doesn't give parasites a place to stay and lay eggs if they have them.


Yes but the substrate doesn't actually "absorb" it....The poop is still there whether there's substrate or not...


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## Betta Bonnie (May 21, 2013)

*bare bottom*

I have bare bottoms and love them that way. I clean them every day with a turkey baster.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Betta Bonnie said:


> I have bare bottoms and love them that way. I clean them every day with a turkey baster.


Is reflection on the bottom of the tank an issue at all?


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

I use gravel to provide as a growing material for beneficial bacteria. I use gravel vacs whenever I change the water, so I suck up all the poop. I also like the substrate, because it provides as a stable place for roots with plants. Ilove to have my betta tanks planted, since my bettas love lounging around on the leaves and such.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Is reflection on the bottom of the tank an issue at all?


The bottom shouldn't have a reflection. The betta should see right through to the stand it's on or whatever you use. It may appear reflective, because you're looking at it from the outside of the tank rather than the top. But, if the bottom is reflective, then that's a not so good betta tank, IMO.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Is it needed...nope. I had some kritter keepers that were bare bottom because I would carry them over to the sink and just dump all the water out every week. It's doable with grave or sand but alot easier without it. 

All my tanks have either sand or gravel though. Most are divided so I need something on the bottom to hold the divider in place and I just got some eco complete for plants so this weeend I am redoing the 20G with that and adding in live plants. 

Sand is easier to see the poop because it lays on top of it, with gravel it can fall into the cracks so you dont see it but it is still there. you need to siphon to remove it


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

But you have to be careful with sand, because it can get really messy and fog up the tank pretty quickly if it's disturbed.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Kiara, gravel doesn't provide nearly as much surface area for bb to grow on as bio filter media that is designed for that purpose, so it is not nescessary.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, it's a good surface area if you don't have a filter in the tank. I don't have filters in 2 of my betta tanks. The gravel, plants, heater, etc. provide enough surface area for the bb to grow. It all depends on the size of the gravel and how much you have. Also, I never said that it was necessary to have substrate. I just say that I use gravel.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

If you don't have a filter, your tank will not cycle. There is no need for more surface area in an uncycled tank, that's why more water changes are required on uncycled tanks as well.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

That statement isn't true. The tanks are cycled. How do you think ponds without a current are able to have fish in it without them dying? The plants and substrate have bb on it and the pond is cycled.


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## ZombieKeepr (Mar 6, 2013)

MattsBettas said:


> If you don't have a filter, your tank will not cycle. There is no need for more surface area in an uncycled tank, that's why more water changes are required on uncycled tanks as well.


Oh really? Then why did 5 of my past tanks cycle with nothing but gravel, an airstone & plants?

Cycling misconceptions run deep it seems. Anything in the tank can hold beneficial bacteria. Even did this on a 29gal goldie tank.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Comparing natural ecosystems to a aquarium is not really fair, kiara. Way to many different factors in play to properly explain.

Typically you need a lot more surface area then gravel can provide. There are also a lot of other benefits to filters. 

And Kiara, it appeard that you believe substrate is needed when you voted that way in the poll. 

All I'm saying is that substrate is absolutly not nescessary, and you can have a healthy betta without it. I've done it many times.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, I'm not saying that I'd rather not have a tank if I can't have substrate, I'm just saying that I'd prefer it.

Still, why is it unfair to compare the two? People seem to do it a lot on here for providing the "best home possible" for fish.

And, like I stated, it all depends and tanks CAN be cycled without filters.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't think substrate is the reason a tank can cycle without a filter...there's other ways to provide surface area. I've never heard of a tank cycling wihout a filter anyway but I'm not going to argue against that...


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> Comparing natural ecosystems to a aquarium is not really fair, kiara. Way to many different factors in play to properly explain.
> 
> Typically you need a lot more surface area then gravel can provide. There are also a lot of other benefits to filters.
> 
> ...


Hey Matt, did you ever have any issue with reflection in you BareBottom tanks? I know I already asked someone else but I am just curious...


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, it's hard to find a small filter around here. Not only that, but I don't see the need since my bettas don't react well to filters. The only filter I have in a betta tank is my 10g divided, but it has a male plakat on that side.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

ZombieKeepr said:


> Oh really? Then why did 5 of my past tanks cycle with nothing but gravel, an airstone & plants? Cycling misconceptions run deep it seems. Anything in the tank can hold beneficial bacteria. Even did this on a 29gal goldie tank.


An airstone provides aeration (oxygen). and circulates the water over the bacteria for treatment. A filter literally is not necessary, a simple pump will do. While it is true that anything in the tank will hold bacteria ---even the livestock--- a filter is a great way to get particulates out of the water and provide additional surface area for the bacteria in a high-flow environment. 

Planting the tank, reduces the need to rely on the nitrogen cycle for ammonia control.

There is always some circulation in a pond, from thermal effects, wind, etc.

Cycling misconceptions abound, agreed. Among them is believing that a nitrogen cycle will flourish in the absence of circulation, oxygen and sufficient surface area.

Cycling is always worthwhile, in my opinion, not for the convenience of the keeper, but for the health and safety of the fish.


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## Polkadot (Feb 10, 2013)

I voted yes because I like the look of gravel in my boys tanks,I think it really adds to the whole look of a tank.Plus it works really well to hold the silk plants in place.Another added bonus is that my little ones like watching the gravel go up & down the gravel vac during water changes. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I've never had any issues with reflection... Whatever surface the tank is on is what the fish sees.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> I've never had any issues with reflection... Whatever surface the tank is on is what the fish sees.


Does it matter what color the surface is?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Nope, as long as it is opaque.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> Nope, as long as it is opaque.


Oh, so basically any furniture from black to white and anything in between? 

Pretty much as long as it's not glass? Or I guess translucent plastic or something...


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

As long as its not glass or reflective. Most of mine are on wood.


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## Saphira101 (Nov 14, 2012)

Betta Bonnie said:


> I have bare bottoms and love them that way. I clean them every day with a turkey baster.


Same!


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> As long as its not glass or reflective. Most of mine are on wood.


Thank you


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## lissienen (Mar 27, 2012)

I say substrate makes for a better tank overall; but then again I believe this because I say that tanks are better when you have live plants in them and those thrive when you have them in substrate. And while beneficial bacteria can grow strictly on filter media and such, the substrate does provide the additional surface area for it.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

If you have a fake plant with a lot of leaves or something like that, wouldn't that provide a decent amount of surface area for the BB?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

A filter is still way better, and provides water circulation over the bb.


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## lissienen (Mar 27, 2012)

Yes, a filter does, and yes a fake plant does. Not saying it doesn't. I'm saying substrate gives you that whole bottom area of the tank in addition. Everybody has their preference and plus like I said; substrate lets you put in live plants: a filter doesn't.


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## Haikuhug (Jun 16, 2013)

I go with yes on the substrate. Maybe it's not 100% "necessary" but I think it looks better even than tanks with painted bottoms, is easier to keep clean and like lissienen said, allows for planted tanks which seem to be healthier overall - and my betta's love to play around and sleep on the leafs.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 Haikuhug

One of mine rests in a dip in the substrate. Both like to rest on large Amazon Sword leaves and in Cabomba. They also like to swim in and out of the plants. None of this would be possible in a bare bottom tank. For my Bettas, substrate _is_ necessary.


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## Sylerwin (Jun 10, 2013)

If cleaning is an issue--buy some fun fabric of choice and simply fold it under the aquarium so it shows through the bottom


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't think it's any easier to keep "clean". It will get as dirty as it gets....and that's that. I don't see why you would need to clean the poo out every day without substrate...there is just as much poo with or without it....


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Anyone?


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Do betta fish naturally interact with substrate at all? Or in the wild do they mostly chill near the top?


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## cheylillymama (Apr 30, 2013)

Totally needed for me, since all my tanks are fully planted.


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## lissienen (Mar 27, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Do betta fish naturally interact with substrate at all? Or in the wild do they mostly chill near the top?


If you're bringing the wild into it then yes it's necessary because substrate allows for plants to root and grow. There are floating plants that betta's enjoy, but the widest variety of plants that betta's get to interact with need to have places to grow a root system, especially since their natural habitat is mostly made up of shallower water systems that tend to be densely planted and they are not at all bare-bottomed. Fake plants can re-create the look, yes, but real plants can never be accurately mimicked even by silk, especially not the oxygen they kick out into the water.


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## Haikuhug (Jun 16, 2013)

+1 lissienen, I'm with you again.

You can layer the top with almond leaves if you are absolutely, for whatever reason, against substrate, but I've already said I'm all for planted tanks and you need substrate for that. And yes, that *does* exist in the wild.

That and I have witnessed my betta playing around with the rocks that I have on the bottom of my tank. When I add in anything shiny down there he likes to toy around with it too.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Well...Hamsters don't have wheels in the wild, but they need them in captivity...Although that is apples to oranges....But I digress...

I wasn't asking about plants lol...I mean, for example, Oscars are pit spawners, meaning that digging is a natural behavior for them...Also goldfish are bottom feeders, meaning digging around is natural for them too, although many advanced aquarists keep goldfish in bare bottoms with great success, but that's not my point....anyway I was asking if a major part of the bettas natural behavior involves looking through/digging the substrate...

Might I also add that these are domesticated fish, bred in captivity for centuries....But all I am asking is the simple question above


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If our purpose (mine is) to mimic a Betta's natural environment as closely as possible, then substrate is necessary. It all depends on what you mean by "need." And, actually, it's a very complex and thought-provoking question. So congrats! It's started an interesting and civil debate.

Do they need it to live? No.
Do they need it to thrive? No
Do they need it to breed? No
Do they need it to imitate their natural environment? Yes
Do they need it to alleviate boredom? Yes (at least for mine)

Perhaps a better question would have been: Do they benefit from having substrate? The answer would have to be "yes" for all of the reasons lissienen and haikuhug and others have listed.

My dog training mentor said the best training methods are the ones with which you disagree as they make you think about why you disagree and why you use the method you do. You've made me think and cemented (pun intended) my decision to have substrate.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Thank you for your interesting insight, Russell 

By needed, I meant to make them thrive. I'm sure some bettas use it to alleviate boredom, but all mine does is lie on it, which he could just as easily do on a barebottom lol. So I think the answer to: do they need it to alleviate boredom? Is no, IMO. Just because it is not the only way a betta can entertain itself, although it can be a way.

ETA: Also, if you really want to mimmic the bettas natural habitat, you should have an outside, temperature controlled pond that you grow rice in...There are no glass walls in nature lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Note I used the qualifier "as closely as possible." ;-)


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Note I used the qualifier "as closely as possible." ;-)


Well, I'm sure you could do the pond thing if you really wanted to, lol 

Don't you think a betta could keep entertained in other ways than sbstrate though?


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm just talking to people and asking questions about this because I honestly don't know...I just voted so I could see the poll results without clicking on anything


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## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

Note: After proof reading my post it seems a bit meaner than it really is. Since tone doesn't travel well through typed words (and I think I failed to make it nice ^_^, I want to make it known that I'm not mad at any body. 

I voted yes because it seems like substrate doesn't become optional until it's a betta in the tank. I have never owned any other type of fish, but I've only seen bettas in substrate less set ups. Maybe I see the tanks of poeple who go as overboard on their fish as me. But it seems like all the other fish get to have something on the bottom of their tank without question. Let bettas have their sand/gravel even if they don't need it. 

I know, I know. My "let bettas have cool stuff like other fish" mindset doesn't work for "cool stuff" like filters and air stones. I know that some tanks have to be adjusted to make them more comfortable for bettas. Some stuff does have to be removed/baffled/created to make a betta more comfortable. But are we really going to start leaving out the sand/gravel because bettas aren't bottom feeders and most BB is in the filter cartridge? Let them lay on sand/gravel even if it adds 10-15 minutes of work to cleaning time. XD 

I'm not trying to bash anyone who has bare bottom tanks. I also have no idea if other fish are kept in bare bottom tanks (honestly....I have no idea). I'm just tired of "betta tank" meaning a tank that can keep a betta alive without X, Y, or Z component. -_-


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Actually, before I ever even heard of the possibility of keeping a betta in a bare bottom, I was discovering that it has been becoming more and more popular to keep goldfish in bare bottom tanks, and people have been keeping discus that way for years.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My wild bettas like the peat moss I put on the bottom. I cover this also with a massive amount of leaf litter. This emulates their natural habitat and I find they often spend a lot of time moving through the leaf litter hunting down food. 

My wilds don't like bare bottom tanks. I never get a rich a colouring as when I use a dark substrate like peat moss.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> My wild bettas like the peat moss I put on the bottom. I cover this also with a massive amount of leaf litter. This emulates their natural habitat and I find they often spend a lot of time moving through the leaf litter hunting down food.
> 
> My wilds don't like bare bottom tanks. I never get a rich a colouring as when I use a dark substrate like peat moss.


I wouldn't put wild bettas in a bare bottom either.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well mine are grown out in bare bottoms, and I have a pair I am looking at selling kept in a bare bottom tank at the moment. But generally I like to use a substrate and leaf litter in my permanent set-ups because I feel it offers some enrichment for them. 

Bare bottom just feels too sterile to me. However, in smaller and uncycled tanks, I can see the advantage when it comes to cleaning as I used to keep many splendens tanks that way.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

What is your definition of smaller? Like less than 10 gallons?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well the tanks I kept like that were 3.5 gallons. That's as small as I went for a permanent home for my bettas.

10 gallons for me is not really small.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Well the tanks I kept like that were 3.5 gallons. That's as small as I went for a permanent home for my bettas.
> 
> 10 gallons for me is not really small.


What would you recommend for a domestic betta in a 5 gallon?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well for me, it would depend on whether you are going to be doing regular 100% water changes or not. 

If you were going to cycle it, I would definitely have a substrate. But if it is uncycled, I think it would get tedious having to rinse the substrate all the time because this is where all the feces and uneaten food is going to get trapped. 

Really the use of substrate is a personal choice. It's not going to have any dramatic impact on the health or longevity of your betta.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Why would you definitely have a substrate if you were going to cycle?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Because I like the look of it more than a bare bottom tank.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Oh okay. Did you see any differences in the splendens you kept in bare bottom vs. with substrate?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Not really. Mine never seemed bothered at all.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Not really. Mine never seemed bothered at all.


Well then I don't see how its needed other than it looks good...


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## Haikuhug (Jun 16, 2013)

finnfinnfriend - the thing is that some of us like to use substrate for a wide variety of reasons including that we think it's healthier for our fish (including in tanks that don't have filters, which can include for some people tanks that are bigger than the tiny ones, I have an unfiltered ten gallon that does very well, for people who continue to go on about how beneficial bacteria needs to be held in the filter), or that it looks prettier, or that we plant natural plants there... or whatever reason. And then some people don't like it and that's totally fine too. Different opinions happen and everyone's explaining their's, but you're only poking at little reasons you disagree with in the substrate people because I'm guessing you don't use substrate...? And that kind of seems... unfair. There is nothing wrong with anyone who wants to use substrate even *just* because it's prettier or matches the color of their betta. If you're just curious then just let them state what they want to without then... disagreeing almost every time. That's more asking for debate and attempting to change minds, which won't really happen, especially with people who've kept tanks for years and love the way they do it and how healthy they are.


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## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

SUbstrate does have some benefits. Beneficial bacteria can grow in substrate even if it is mainly found in filter media. It is needed for plants that have a root system and can hold down fake plants. I will admit that my list of uses is small, but substrate does do more than look good. XD


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I actually do use substrate, lol. Just trying to find out if it's really needed for good care or not. Not poking anyone. As stated earlier this is a civil debate, which is fine. It's totally fine that some people think it's necessary and some don't. Just makin conversation


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