# I want a sorority, is this a bad idea?



## loopsandsticks (Mar 21, 2016)

I've been finding the idea of a sorority appealing and was thinking of getting a 20gal long tank. I'm currently doing research and due diligence but am finding conflicting information. Many claim they've successfully started one and others just say it's a bad idea. What do you think? If yay, do you have any tips and suggestions for other tank mates? If nay, what kind of fish would you recommend instead? Thanks!


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## MyBabiesHaveScales (Aug 24, 2015)

I don't have a sorority personally, but I myself would feel hesitant to take one on. As you have probably heard, females can sometimes be just as aggressive and territorial as males, and it could end very badly for one or all of the girls. If you like the appearance of females, they can be kept on their own as well  A lot of people who have community tanks place their bettas with guppies, certain types of snails and shrimp, and I think mollies too. General rule is their tank mates cannot be fin nippers or larger than the betta her/himself. If you do decide to take on the challenge, make sure you have enough bettas (5-6 or more) to successfully establish the pecking order, and keep a very close eye on the girls to see if their is any issues. Have tanks ready in case you have to end up separating them. You wouldn't want to have to return them all to the pet store. Hope this helped at least a little bit!


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## loopsandsticks (Mar 21, 2016)

I am a bit hesitant to start a sorority, because of the higher probability of things going wrong. I'll keep reading up on it, but right now, I'm leaning more towards not doing it and just doing a community tank.

On another note, I currently have 10gal with a male betta, mystery snail, and nerite. Is there anything else I can add in there with them?


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

No opinions on the 10g tankmates, but you do know about AqAdvisor do you? Check them out if you don't 

I just recently dropped my plan to start a sorority. TBH I don't think you're finding conflicting information. "Some are successful some are not" is as accurate as it gets when it comes down to sororities. Someone on here repeatedly pointed out that sororities hugely depends on each female's personality rather than how many tips and tricks you follow. Heavily planted is a must, sure, and then there's the ten-gal minimum and odd-number rule thing. But these all are not a guarantee. There is no secret key to success. Like, if you do it this way then everything will work out and if you do it that way everything will fall apart. It's not black and white. It's a gamble - obviously with risks of losing just like how any other gambles work. The question is whether or not it's a gamble you want to play. 

I've decided it's not. But if you disagree, nobody's saying you're a bad person either. Just make sure you understand and are prepared for all the risks involved.


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## loopsandsticks (Mar 21, 2016)

I'm leaning more towards where you are Olivia27. It would be nice to have one if I could guarantee its success. But I think I'm deciding that it's not something I want to gamble with. I don't want to end up having dead, sick, or injured fish, or having to re-home some. I like a good challenge, but I got into this because I like the relaxing aspect of being a caretaker.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

My sorority's going well.

In all honesty, it all depends on your girls. I got some of the.. better temprements; There were girls in the store flaring and ramming the side of the cup.. *walks away slowly* Anyway, tips? Lots of good cover. Live plants are best. I'd get some type of wood, like Mopani, or IAL so the water has some tannins to reduce stress. I WOULDN'T recommend tankmates, although I do have 3 Impulse Guppies. (50% off all Guppies, & but 1 get 1 free? Heck yeah!) Keep the temprature high, 80* to 82*. Odd numbers of girls; I have 9 in my 20 Long.

I've found it works best to get different tail types, colors, and sizes. Not ALL huge with one little teeny one, but from smallish to medium. Although, I'm also guilty as charged on size, I have a Giant in my sorority.  Good luck. And you know what? I say go for it. It's normal to see ripped fins, though. So if you want 100% perfect fins and tears/bites bug you, then no.


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## jkberry6987 (Mar 18, 2016)

Hi. I'm actually in the process of trying a sorority out at the current moment. It is my first attempt but I felt I did plenty of research to give it a shot n succeed. I have a new 10 gallon that has been cycled, I also planted live plants as well as a few artificial. Filtered with a double sponge large filter and there's also a submersible heater. Most people said to put at least 5 females(some posts said 3) in a 10 gallon...I'm sure you could fit more in the 20. I decided against that and used 4. All the females were quarantined for 2 weeks prior just to make sure they were doing okay and not sickly. It's literally been about 15ish hours and for the most part they are doing totally fine. I made sure I acclimated them, then released them all into the tank AT THE SAME TIME. If you don't do it at the same time, the 1St one you put in there will think they own it. Most information told me it would take usually a whole day or 24hours for the female to get their "pecking order" in line. 3 of my females are totally fine and very peaceful but I have this stubborn half moon that wants to be queen b...she's still chasing and flaring at the others but not biting so I think it's okay since it hasn't been a full 24hours. You should def keep your eyes on them just to make sure they arent fighting. Oh by the way, when I released them all into the take everyone was fighting everyone for about 5 minutes but it quickly settled down after that. Don't get me wrong my heart was beating fast and I felt really bad for them, maybe that's why some people just get scared and just separate them immediately and think it can't work out. Just make sure you have PLENTY of hiding spots for everyone...under rocks...in caves...behind things...etc. As far as tank mates, i thought the ghost shrimp were pretty cool so I have 2 in there. The females were very very very interested in them and now kinda don't even look at them twice. I heard they were good tank mates and it seems to be working for me. As with every fish, each one will have a different personality, some can be hostile; others really peaceful. So even though it's working for me it may not work for you. You may have that one fish that is just a boss and shreds everything in its path(which is why I'm still keeping an eye on this one) There were a few other tank mates that were good tank mates. I knew one was an African dwarf frog I believe, I could be wrong about the dwarf part. Placos are another favorite. There was too much contradicting information on neon tetras for me to try those....some people said it worked, some said they would rip the Betta's fins so be careful if you use those. So in all I think it's a great idea, just make sure your tank is cycled, you have a heater and filter. Live plants are always better than artificial. And if you do have a female who isn't cooperating, take her out and replace her with a more friendly gal. Any more questions please feel free to ask....remember I'm just 15 hours in.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I know you're excited but, sorry, 15 hours is nothing; six or eight months is nothing. Just as "ThatFishThough" about her experience after posting the above.

There are reasons seasoned aquarists discourage them and mostly new aquarists are the ones who try them. Sororities are extremely stressful and volatile. If they don't kill or severely damage one another stress will weaken their immune systems and they can succumb to disease.

Come back when it's been set up for two years with no issues.


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## Bdodson5 (Feb 9, 2016)

I have a small sorority of 5 gallons with two females. Plenty of plant cover and hiding places. I know it's not ideal and there was a high probability it wouldn't work but it does in this case. Most people would say that there is no way it would work but I have had no trouble at all. Zero aggression… I guess it really depends on the individual fish. It's a very good idea to have extra space incase you have to separate them though.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

^^ That's not really a sorority. ;-) Two fish, like two horses or two dogs, immediately determine who's Alpha and can then get along. With Betta that's not always the case but the odds are better with two than with a sorority.


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## Bdodson5 (Feb 9, 2016)

At what point do you consider it a sorority, Russell?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

When I've seen people refer to sororities on the Forum they are talking about 4+; usually five or more. Behavior-wise there is a big difference when one is observing two or a pack/herd.

We have four horses. Ben is Alpha and is never bothered or challenged. Red is the next and he spends most of his time fighting for his place and keeping Cindy and Smokey in their places below him. When he and Ben were alone there was never any conflict. It's when you add more that the fight to stay off the bottom ensues.


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## Bdodson5 (Feb 9, 2016)

Oh no I understand that it's not "the norm" to only have two fish in a sorority. Most people recommend more to prevent one fish from being picked on. I have five horses so I understand herd mentality. But I do see your point. My sorority is not typical


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Personally I think the odds of success are worse with only a pair of females. Even with my wild bettas, when I've had them in same sex pairs, there's almost always been issues with bullying. Because there's no other fish in the tank to disperse aggression, the lower ranking fish cops the full brunt of whatever intimidation, harassment and attacks the other fish deals out. 

With the right females it can work, but a lot of the time you end up with one fish relentlessly bullying the other. 

IMO, sororities are great when they work, but devastating when they fail. The loss of one fish is bad enough, but when something goes wrong with a sorority, you often lose multiple fish in rapid succession. 

I've experienced both sides of the pendulum, and ultimately, I decided the risk wasn't worth it for me. 

My advice is that if you do set up a sorority and things are going well, do not change anything! Don't add new fish, or make drastic changes to the tank. Stability seems to play an important role in maintaining a successful sorority long-term.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

^^ Thank you!


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Ive had good luck with female tanks. I highly recommend using siblings raised together from the start. 20g plus with 7-15 or so and with plants and hides. If females spend much time alone out of the group they may become incompatible and trouble makers. Just throwing adult females from different groups into a tank can be a huge problem. Russellthesihtzu and Littlebettafish make very good points here.


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