# What exactly IS Mushu?



## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I've looked at Marble bettas, and haven't seen any that look like my 'Shu. And I've Koi bettas, and I think he may be a low quality koi...
Mushu

















Marble betta









Koi betta









Anyone know?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I would think he's marble. Nice fish though!


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

ok, now I have to ask "Why?"
Just because I would like to know the difference, and how I tell the two varieties apart.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Honestly, I don't know much about koi, but that looks similar to every marble I've seen. Many colors, splotchy, presence of white. Also, marbles are more common especially in pet stores then kois.


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks. Hopefully, someone can explain the exact difference though. lol


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

I've never known there was a 'koi' type, but I imagine the difference would be marbles can change they're entire appearance over the course of a few weeks. It's a genetic code that's passed through breeding. My Seiya is a marble, was a full teal on one side, camouflage teal/white on the other, now both sides are camouflaged white/teal and he's developing black on his belly, anal and pelvis fins. Marbles will change color throughout their lives. 

'Koi'....I don't know anything about them. Perhaps it's another name for marble? Or maybe it's a multi-color with a specific pattern. Or maybe 'koi' just describes the pattern.

Sorry, don't know much about the latter, but I did lots of research on marbles after I got Seiya.


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I did find this description of Koi:
Koi: Usually a type of marble with a cellophane white body and red and/or black spots.
(http://darkmoon17.deviantart.com/journal/Betta-Fish-Colors-216750430)


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

So "Marble" is still correct, it's just the red/black spots that make him a "Koi"


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

Makes sense to me. Be so cool to find one on Thursday when I go back hunting for a pretty male!


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I actually found him at a fish store labeled as a Dragonscale! lol


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

I love fish store mistakes ^^ I'm going right when they get new stock so hopefully I find and interesting first pick!

But marbles are exciting! They can look like entirely different fish in just a few months! I think that's just the coolest thing! Though I'll miss Seiya's white and teal =)

So have you seen Mushu change at all, or maybe will just the red and black spots move around?


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

He got a little darker on his right side (where the big black spot is) for a while, but it went away when I moved him to black and white gravel, I think it was stress because he was housed near a big King betta, and he wasn't a fan.

I've found a lot of fish-store flubs, my king was sold as a standard. I've found pineapples and mustard gases at Wal-mart even. They're not show-quality, but they are still a little unexpected.


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm going in hopes of finding an interesting actual full halfmoon. Seiya's on the bench until he grows a bit more fin. I've seen him hit 180 degrees, but he mostly sticks at 170 =/ 

If possible a rose-tail would be just awsm! My favourite tail type (and the most fun to draw I find), but I know my chances are low. I wouldn't mind a double tailed halfmoon either. Colors though I'm thinking a vivid purple, blue/white butterfly, or another marble. I'd even take a full white or cellophane. 

I havent' seen any 'koi' types at my lfs, but that would be very interesting. And kind of like having a small koi that doesnt outgrow your tank xD 

But gosh, when I was there and picked Seiya and Kalec I saw a white on red dragonscale halfmoon plakat on the halfmoon shelf >.< Which I guess counts, but they were only selling him for 10, when I knew his type and quality goes for 20-30 on AquaBid. I was tempted to grab him, but the fact that he had a rusty red color...and I'm not privy to red bettas >.< They also had a double tail veil tail int he halfmoons >.> Also thought about him. 

I hope they got good homes =(


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

We saw an elephant ear hmpk labeled as just hmpk. The EE's were almost $20. The hmpk was $12. I almost bought him too lol


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm on the edge about the EE's. I think they're beautiful pectorals, but sometimes they look very striking and almost odd on certain colortypes. An EE HMPK would be awsm though. I saw one somewhere...on AquaBid I think. Maybe...hm. he was just all white and fluttery and looked so elegant!


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I love the oddballs! lol There's one at our favorite fish store where he's pure white, dragonscale, AND EE (or they have him labeled as a "Dumbo") but ohmigoodness is he a HEART-THROB! lol


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

Eee~ getting so excited for Thursday night! =D


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I wish I lived closer, I'd go shopping with you!


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

xD We'd be terrible influences on eachother. "Do you think I should get this one? " "Cha, yes woman!"


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

not meeeee! -halo-

I was thinking of getting either EE's or Kois when I eventually start my breeding program. Maybe I'll combine the two and make "big eared" Koi!!!


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

Ohmgosh you have to send one up here to me! Don't worry I'll pay =)


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I'll let you know when I get into it. We've been talking about a breeding program.


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm so excited...again!! xD


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not too clear on these types of color. As far as I know:
Marbles = a type of gene that makes color change (also called the jumping gene). Eg. an originally blue will become pale and then return blue again. 

- Usually color change occurs before 6 month of age (often between 2-4 months) but sometimes it can go on to a later age. 
- Color will usually change into pale as the first phase. The end result is often unpredictable (pattern). Most only change twice; dark color - pale - back to dark color. But some may change 3-4 times; copper - pale - copper - green - copper. The end result of these sometimes differs to it's original color and pattern.
- Marble can occur in all color and color types; regular/basic color, metallic, and dragon.
- Some color/pattern need the marble gene (can't elaborate)
- Once a marble stops changing or has turned dark again, it's difficult to identify it as "marble".
- Pale body and less intense black (or other color) like your first male implies that it's a marble.

Koi, I think (not sure), need the marble gene to become koi. Otherwise it will show patterns like the "appache" (sorry on spelling) (multi 3-4 color with white head). The koi needs to show a pale body (regular color) or white (metallic and dragon) as its base color and have splashes of red, white and black - like the koi fish.

The only way you can learn to "spot" a marble is by viewing their changes. Then you'll understand how colors go pale - which pale colors are "natural" and which are marble. Once they color up, it's hard to tell.


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

Wow, thats awsm =)


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

From what I've read (and I included the link somewhere) is that the red and black spots on a mostly white body are what makes him a "koi", instead of a regular marble. Because the color hasn't spread or changed at all like I've seen with other marbles.

I do know what you mean about the color changing into a completely different fish. I had a purple and white marble HM that turned a dark blue (almost black) in the span of a couple of months.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Actually I've seen some koi that wasn't from a marble spawn. But I think the first koi mutation was produced by the marble genes towrads the specific multi combination. . . . 

Colors/patterns I THINK was associated with marbles are; koi, super black, and what I call the true "blue dragon" - white body with bright blue fins. The blue dragons - IME often eventually turns into regular blue (body becomes blue again) . . . . unpredictable.


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## Skyewillow (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm actually surprised that he hasn't turned completely black on me. I've had a number of fish, who were lightly colored with white when I bought them, and turned almost black within the first month!

Example one:
















He shows stress barring, so I figured his body would darken up, but that white section on his tail turned black as well.

Example 2:


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