# Show potential?



## Lloyd28

View attachment 209898


View attachment 209906

Is he show quality? Thanks


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## Skuldane

I'm not qualified to judge the quality of the fish, But I will say that you probably need better/closer pics of the fish for people to judge it. These are blurry and too far away.


On a side note, I love him!


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## Mo

He's a very pretty fish, I would buy him as a pet but I don't think he's worth breeding


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## Lloyd28

Thought id 
Ask


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## Mo

He's amazingly gorgeous though, big ears are my favorite!


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## LittleBettaFish

I find it sad I knew he was one of Jodi-Lea's/Fishchick Aquatics fish based on the tank and the writing on the tank. 

Unusual colours even if it isn't show quality.


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## Mo

Lol, you visit her that much?


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## LittleBettaFish

I don't visit her as I live about 1500km away (sadly), but I watch her videos on Youtube every week when she uploads new ones and I recognised it as being one of her fish. 

I got excited because I thought the OP was a fellow Aussie.


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## Basement Bettas

Cant see the spread and this fish would have to be shown in variations because of the dumbo. You need to breed and raise the fish to show. It is not about who has money to buy a winner. Showing is about breeding and raising a winner. It is an art.. and that is what the show rewards. Totally not getting people wanting to win and not doing any of the work.


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## Saber

I understand where you are coming from, but they may be completely new to betta shows and don't understand. Aren't there also some shows where you can enter a fish you haven't bred in a "mock judging" just to see how it works and get some experience?


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## Basement Bettas

No. Don't have time for mock judging. Fish are judged and they win points toward year end awards. Shows are exhausting work for those that put them on. And there is the expense of ribbons and the time it take to judge. Pet shop bettas are going to fall pretty short of the standard.. and we are not into awarding subjective *pretty fish* awards. Just not how it is done. You do not see dog, cat or horse shows for *pet* types. Westminster is not going to have a mock judging for people to see how it is done. The expectation is if you are going to enter, you know the rules and how it is done. Shows are about evaluating the best of the best in anything. Why should it be different for fish?

Some shows may offer a local pet class for walk ins and it becomes peoples choice for the winner. Again, most judges do not have time to look at them.. But for anything else the reality is are you going to spent money to send a pet fish to a show and back home? I have at least $100 in every show with shipping and entry fees. And I do it every other week during the season. 

You want people to tell you you have a pretty fish, it does not belong in a show or this section of the forum. Enjoy him but accept you do not have show quality. You want to seriously breed good fish to show.. then this section is for you. The expectation is to see fish pretty close to the standards for evaluation here. Otherwise you run the risk of having your pretty fish ripped apart fault by fault.


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## Saber

Basement Bettas said:


> No. Don't have time for mock judging. Fish are judged and they win points toward year end awards. Shows are exhausting work for those that put them on. And there is the expense of ribbons and the time it take to judge. Pet shop bettas are going to fall pretty short of the standard.. and we are not into awarding subjective *pretty fish* awards. Just not how it is done. You do not see dog, cat or horse shows for *pet* types. Westminster is not going to have a mock judging for people to see how it is done. The expectation is if you are going to enter, you know the rules and how it is done. Shows are about evaluating the best of the best in anything. Why should it be different for fish?
> 
> Some shows may offer a local pet class for walk ins and it becomes peoples choice for the winner. Again, most judges do not have time to look at them.. But for anything else the reality is are you going to spent money to send a pet fish to a show and back home? I have at least $100 in every show with shipping and entry fees. And I do it every other week during the season.
> 
> You want people to tell you you have a pretty fish, it does not belong in a show or this section of the forum. Enjoy him but accept you do not have show quality. You want to seriously breed good fish to show.. then this section is for you. The expectation is to see fish pretty close to the standards for evaluation here. Otherwise you run the risk of having your pretty fish ripped apart fault by fault.


You fail to mention that Westminster has a Junior handlers competition during their show in which the quality of the dog is judged far below the handler's ability. This is done to keep new, younger handlers interested in showing and thus keeping the hobby alive. No, they do not allow any random old Joe to walk in off the street and join the junior handler's competition, but I wasn't saying these betta shows had to be officially run be the IBC either. Local chapters can run their own shows for fun with their own members. I know the CNY betta club did this at least one time in the past. Noooot sure why you're getting so defensive over a person's simple question.


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## veggiegirl

Yeah I saw that was one of Jodi's fish straight up too. Saw that pair when they were first put up for sale. Gorgeous unusual colour but from what I have read I believe his form is not the best. 

Okay I agree this was just a simple question from a newbie wanting to learn about bettas. No need to over react we want to encourage people to the hobby not discourage them. We all have to start somewhere and what better way to learn than by asking questions.


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## Basement Bettas

Not defensive. There is an entire forum here for pet types and for those want people to ohhh and ahhh over their fish. The questions here should be serious about showing and what is needed to breed and show and the IBC. NOT what do you think.. is my pet show quality. Encouraging people to keeping bettas is one thing. Showing another. For those serious about learning the finer points of form or color.. wading through the "what do you think of Zeus" questions is a bit disrespectful. This is a large forum and there are plenty of places for that type question. If you read the *please read before posting* sticky, you will see that type of post is not appropriate for this section.


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## beautiful Betta

Basement Bettas said:


> Not defensive. There is an entire forum here for pet types and for those want people to ohhh and ahhh over their fish. The questions here should be serious about showing and what is needed to breed and show and the IBC. NOT what do you think.. is my pet show quality. Encouraging people to keeping bettas is one thing. Showing another. For those serious about learning the finer points of form or color.. wading through the "what do you think of Zeus" questions is a bit disrespectful. This is a large forum and there are plenty of places for that type question. If you read the *please read before posting* sticky, you will see that type of post is not appropriate for this section.


I can understand that you are obviously very passionate about breeding and form. But their are ways of getting your point across without the need of verging on rudeness. People interested in about finding out more about show breeding need to start somewhere, and you could have just said, breeders have to breed their own show betta's, and no that one would not be anywhere close. Maybe given some links into what is required.;-)


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## Basement Bettas

Currently you have to be a member of the IBC to have access to the standards. With the new site they will be made available for all to view. I have limited time so do not tend to mince words. And this is an ongoing issue in this section. The question asked was not appropriate for this section. The sticky explains what is expected here. There is no need for me to come along and give a *true* assessment of a fish posted here that does not belong. It does no one any good.


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## Basement Bettas

*HE* is a she.

It takes time to do a review and I am very good at doing them. It is a waste of my time and those reading to have all the faults of a fish not even close to breed or show quality pointed out. You ask a question you get an answer. It is ya'll that are making a big deal over the answers I guess you don't like. If you do not like my directness you can hang out on the rest of the forum as this is the only place here I visit. You will be safe from me elsewhere. If you are interested in purchasing and breeding quality fish that meet a standard then questions to that end go here and will be addressed by people that are qualified to answer them.

QUOTE: Okay I agree this was just a simple question from a newbie wanting to learn about bettas. ...

if you want to learn about bettas read the other sections and post there. Please leave this section for those serious about breeding and showing to a standard.


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## shannonpwns

I feel like a simple report of the original post, saying it is in the wrong section, would have sufficed. You said your time is so 'limited', so why waste your time repeatedly replying in excruciating details of how low minded and out of line anyone is for posting in this section unless they are a professional breeder/shower?


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## Basement Bettas

Because of the lack of understanding and common sense.

And professional implies we make a living at it and that is incorrect. Just a different area of interest in the hobby.

And I believe I stated as much with my reply.


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## karenluvsbettas623

But this wasn't just a "pet store fish", it was sold for the purpose of breeding as a pair by a very popular importer, fishchick, how is he supposed to know? technically this post DOES belong in this section. I think they would be worth breeding, because honestly Dumbo's are not very developed yet, especially long-finned dumbos. Dumbos are attractive, and if they grow in popularity i'm sure eventually there will be a class for them in the ibc. If nothing else, they are very easy to sell. Honestly how many perfect Dumbo's have you people seen? because I haven't , aquabid has very few that have faults as well.


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## veggiegirl

karenluvsbettas623, agreed! all Jodi's fish are Thailand imports from show breeders. Sure they haven't all got perfect form but they certainly aren't 'pet shop fish'.

Also the question was whether the fish was show quality not is my fish pretty so technically it does belong here. The person asking the question may have been planning to show in the future so they wanted to buy some show quality fish to breed therefore they wanted to know whether this pair would be suitable.


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## Basement Bettas

Most of what is sold on AB is not show quality and are mutts. Horrible form faults and it is rare the colors meet minimum standards let alone the high one. And we will just leave it at that. You want a show quality fish for breeding then you need to join the IBC and see the standard you will have to meet. The you make your choice and progress to a goal. Most people have a knee jerk reaction to a *pretty* fish with no thought as to what they want to accomplish with the breeding. And that is fine. You just will not have show quality fish.

Dumbos have a standard that is being tried. A serious breeder does not breed to sell but meet a standard. Having a commercial fish is really no interest. That is for the breeders on AB. the next crazy cross to get people to spend money. It is up to the buyer to be educated.

And if you want a serious evaluation then you need to have a photo like you see on AB. I have seen thousands of fish and can assume much on that fish. But it does no one any good because they can not *see* what I do. You want educated.. then present the fish properly. And you need to state the purpose of the fish beyond he is pretty or is he show quality. Like trying to breed quality bi-colors. Then a person knows you are serious about the question and it is with the time to evaluate.


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## dramaqueen

Basement Bettas has a point. It's really not fair to get a petstore fish and put it up against IBC show standards.And this section is really meant for the discussion of shows and show quality fish.Those of us with pet bettas should just enjoy them and not worry if they have the right finnage, topline or whatever.


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## Destinystar

Please remember to use the report button when you have a problem with another member being rude or on the edge of being rude. This member had a question simply put answer it as best as you can and move on and respect others or just report the thread so the moderators can decide together where it belongs in case the sticky is unclear or you have trouble understanding it. Thanks for your help and understanding I appreciate it !


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## shannonpwns

dramaqueen said:


> Basement Bettas has a point. It's really not fair to get a petstore fish and put it up against IBC show standards.


Their fish isn't a pet store fish, btw. Just sayin.


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## ao

If you realized you have posted in the wrong section, simply click the report button and request to have your thread moved to a more suitable section. name calling is not permitted on this forum.

The OP's fish is certainly beautiful, unfortunately, there are many beautiful bettas out there that do not meet IBC show standards. Whether it is a pet store or aquabid, all domestic betta fish comes from breeders, however not all breeders are set out to breed show quality fish for IBC conventions. Some breeders breed for profit and others for a specific trait they favor, and that is quite OK, For the most part beauty is determined by the eye of the beholder. 

If you are really interested in breeding show quality bettafish, it's a good idea to start out in the breeding section and by asking questions about form, colors genes and especially breeding. Joining the IBC will also gain you access to great information on showing bettas and ideals for betta form and finnage.

This show section is intended to be a highly specialized section for people who have fish bred to IBC show standards. Consequently, in order to get professional feed back and critique, the quality of posting and photography is expected to be much higher than the rest of our forum. So, I can certainly see where Basement Betta's frustration is coming from. A simple google search can take you to some basic guide on IBC forms and give a good idea on proper ways to photograph bettas for critiques.


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## Riverotter

LLoyd, in my admittedly inexperienced opinion, your fish has the dorsal that many show breeders strive for and the break in color is very clean, which is needed when showing bi-colors. The color itself is stunning. The fish seems to have a very good top line and a nicely proportionate body, depth to length.

You can't tell more than that without a profile picture in full flare, but I would certainly think that that fish would be a good start for a breeding program of show quality bi-colors, and probably nicer than many people start with. It is certainly a much nicer fish than any other long finned EE I have seen.

Good luck in your breeding.


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## karenluvsbettas623

This was a legitimate question that belongs in this section. It all started with someone making an ASSUMPTION that the OP intended to buy a fish to show, and not raise their own fry. The question was whether the fish was show quality, it was a legit question. The OP never took ofense to the fact that his fish was not "show quality". Many breeders start wit non-show quality fish who have a trait they like, and then they breed towards improving, the EE trait is still not very well developed in long- finned bettas therefore, it counts as a legitimate question.

If you really want only "show quality" fish to be posted here, then you need to be specific in your sticky. Put "only show quality fish here, that meet ibc standards, if you do not know what the ibc standards are, then you probably shouldn't be posting here" but since it doesn't say that, people shouldn't be nailed against the wall, not for how their fish look, but for even asking the question. 

We all know basement bettas is good at what she does, trust me, we know, i know, i follow her fb page, there is no doubt there. If she feels like a question is not worth her time answering, then she should simply abstain from answering it.


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## ao

I believe that the sticky does need updating to be more specific :/
As for the question, it was certainly legitimate. However from my limited experience in betta breeding and selection, the photography doesn't give much to work off. That would be my personal opinion on this issue.
I would love to see Basement Betta's fish sometime  I don't frequent this section so i've never actually heard of her~


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## Mo

Yeah, basement Bettas is a really good breeder who's bred a lot of great fish and BOC, BOS and RBOS fish... Apparently she's done all of that, those seem like really good credentials, lol.... I wish I was ranked that high and had fish like hers.. I hope I get there one day..

And for the thread. I promised myself I wouldn't get into conversations like this so I'm going to seal my mouth shut.. Lol but I disagree with a lot that has been said and also agree with a lot of it

__________________
Basement Bettas ~ Breeder of Show Bettas
Nationally ranked 3rd in point standings 2011-2012
Nationally ranked 5th in point standings 2012-2013
Regular contributor to Flare!
Co-Founder BettaSource


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## dramaqueen

I am aware that the op 's fish isn't a petstore fish but I do know that breeder susually keep their best for showing and breeding put fish that aren't really show quality up for auction.


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## Basement Bettas

karenluvsbettas623 said:


> This was a legitimate question that belongs in this section. It all started with someone making an ASSUMPTION that the OP intended to buy a fish to show, and not raise their own fry. The question was whether the fish was show quality, it was a legit question. The OP never took ofense to the fact that his fish was not "show quality". Many breeders start wit non-show quality fish who have a trait they like, and then they breed towards improving, the EE trait is still not very well developed in long- finned bettas therefore, it counts as a legitimate question.
> 
> If you really want only "show quality" fish to be posted here, then you need to be specific in your sticky. Put "only show quality fish here, that meet ibc standards, if you do not know what the ibc standards are, then you probably shouldn't be posting here" but since it doesn't say that, people shouldn't be nailed against the wall, not for how their fish look, but for even asking the question.
> 
> 
> We all know basement bettas is good at what she does, trust me, we know, i know, i follow her fb page, there is no doubt there. If she feels like a question is not worth her time answering, then she should simply abstain from answering it.


The problem is the fish is presented like a pet fish. Is it show quality. NO. But how in the world can some one take that pic and present the good and bad so ALL can benefit from the critique and understand WHY is it not.

This section is to educate, not for people like me to just give you a yes or no on the quality of your fish. It is really not fair to ask about show anything when you present pet presentation. Evaluations on fish to breed are useful as you see what is easy and what is hard to fix. You get the down dirty of breeding stock and know what you need fixed. Asking show quality is an invitation for me to rip that fish apart for no good reason. As a breeder that info would be valuable. As a fish you just think is pretty and are going to enjoy.. it is not worth it. To the op or the fish.

I know most of you think I am cold and heartless. But this section is a little different than the rest. It is for serious evaluations on breeding stock, learning to understand the show system and raising fish with the intent to meet a standard and show. It is not to see how a fish you bought happens to stack up to show quality. You want to breed nice fish, present the fish properly and let me know the purpose. Breeding for what? You will get an honest evaluation against the standard you are trying to meet. I am not going to rip apart your pet, and like I have stated.. there are plenty of other places for that kind of evaluation here.


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## Basement Bettas

These are show quality fish.. presented so one can evaluate them..


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## Saber

Basement Bettas said:


> The problem is the fish is presented like a pet fish. Is it show quality. NO. But how in the world can some one take that pic and present the good and bad so ALL can benefit from the critique and understand WHY is it not.
> 
> This section is to educate, not for people like me to just give you a yes or no on the quality of your fish. It is really not fair to ask about show anything when you present pet presentation. Evaluations on fish to breed are useful as you see what is easy and what is hard to fix. You get the down dirty of breeding stock and know what you need fixed. Asking show quality is an invitation for me to rip that fish apart for no good reason. As a breeder that info would be valuable. As a fish you just think is pretty and are going to enjoy.. it is not worth it. To the op or the fish.
> 
> I know most of you think I am cold and heartless. But this section is a little different than the rest. It is for serious evaluations on breeding stock, learning to understand the show system and raising fish with the intent to meet a standard and show. It is not to see how a fish you bought happens to stack up to show quality. You want to breed nice fish, present the fish properly and let me know the purpose. Breeding for what? You will get an honest evaluation against the standard you are trying to meet. I am not going to rip apart your pet, and like I have stated.. there are plenty of other places for that kind of evaluation here.


I am not disagreeing with you here - telling someone that their fish is pretty isn't going to help them understand, but my point (and I think the point some others were trying to make) was that you were coming off a bit too harshly. There is a difference in educating newbies and "tearing them apart" as you mentioned. Not everyone responds well to harsh criticism. I'm not sure if this person wanted to show this fish, or if they were asking because they would like to breed it.

Its good that you posted examples of show quality bettas. I'm glad that the IBC will be making all of the pertinent info public soon, I think that will help a lot of newbies (because lets face it, sometimes people are lazy and want to look on only one website for information on something...;-)


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## veggiegirl

Basement Bettas, I can completely understand the need to provide properly presented photographs of the fish in order to have them evaluated however having bought from this seller quite a few times before I know for a fact that it would be very difficult to get such photos as only videos are available of each fish for sale. I would say that the pictures provided are just Print Screen Shots from the video hence the poor quality.


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## Lloyd28

They look like petshop fish i can get you some of those if your wanting more


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## Fenghuang

Curious... Because I am always admiring her listings and watching her Youtube channel, I am fairly sure that betta is from Fishchick Aquatics. As fair as I know, she does not ship her fish outside of Australia. You have your location listed as the UK, so how did you manage to get one of her fish, Lloyd?


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## veggiegirl

True they are fishchicks


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## Fenghuang

Yeah, I noticed Lloyd posting pictures of their HMs before and they all seemed to be taken from Fishchick's videos. Unless I'm mistaken and Lloyd never meant that they bought them.

Because, honestly, I would love to know how they got them without being in Australia...


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## veggiegirl

The fish in my avatar is one of fishchicks,my most recent purchase!


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## LittleBettaFish

Yeah I found the video that screenshot belongs to and the fish is definitely from Fishchick Aquatics. 

Jodi-Lea doesn't export and most of her stock is far superior to the average pet store fish you see posted on this forum as she sources from various overseas breeders. 

Unless the OP lives in Australia and their location is wrong they can't own one of Jodi-Lea's fish.


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## Lloyd28

I liked the fish and wonderd what it took to have a show betta.The picture is a screen shot off youtube i just wonderd if it was a show betta that is all simple yes or no :shock:would of done lol


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## LittleBettaFish

Except on a previous thread you are stating the fish came from the UK when it actual fact it did not. Not certain why you keep saying he is from the UK. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=267130


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## Lloyd28

I posted 2 pics tried mine and the dumbo but mine did not appear


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## Lloyd28

It wasnt till thread 2 that i realisedd the pic of my dumbo didnt appear i was comparing him to mine too see if the purple 1 was show quality to mine bad mix up ere lol


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## Fenghuang

Yet you did in fact claim that it was sold to you as a "jumbo halfmoon bright eye," which is what Fishchick called him. She names her stock pretty uniquely. 

Link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lkhQvfQuI&desktop_uri=/watch?v=J8lkhQvfQuI

Furthermore, you did say your dumbo is purple in that first thread, and now, you are still referring to the one in this thread as purple.



Lloyd28 said:


> Uk he us dark purple he was sold as a jumbo halfmoon bright eye


And it makes no sense that you posted two fish's pictures yet only ever talked about one and never noticed people were only talking about one when you were responding. 

I do not have a problem with you, Lloyd; it's just that it's kind of dishonest of you to post a picture of a fish that is not even yours, claiming that he is, so people "ooh and ahh" will over him.


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## BlueInkFish

i dont think you should be dishonest and at least say sorry for the people you lied to You guys sound like sherlock holmes XD .. ill keep my mouth shut now..


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## BlueInkFish

and btw another clue is (in the pic) it says PAIR meaning you should have a female if you bought him unless for some reason she sold it to you which i dont think she did


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## BlueInkFish

i dont know if i already wrote this but it says PAIR in one of the pics so.. that means you should have a female unless she didnt sell you the pair which i dont think she sold you it because your in the UK like the others said..so.. IMO i think youu should just apologize to others for lying..


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## veggiegirl

The fish would not be sold without it's pair, once the fish are filmed Jodi rarely splits a pair, I have never known her to and I have asked on occasions.


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## BlueInkFish

veggiegirl said:


> The fish would not be sold without it's pair, once the fish are filmed Jodi rarely splits a pair, I have never known her to and I have asked on occasions.


oh ok well good thing you mentioned that i never bought from jodi but i see all her fish and i wish i lived in Australia


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## Basement Bettas

Saber said:


> I am not disagreeing with you here - telling someone that their fish is pretty isn't going to help them understand, but my point (and I think the point some others were trying to make) was that you were coming off a bit too harshly. There is a difference in educating newbies and "tearing them apart" as you mentioned. Not everyone responds well to harsh criticism. I'm not sure if this person wanted to show this fish, or if they were asking because they would like to breed it.


Ya'll read too much emotion into my replies. I am relaying facts. My personal and professional life I process a lot of information and need to communicate it quickly. So everything is to the point. There are no hard feelings.. really. If you can't stand up to my *harsh* criticism here, how in the world do you think you can handle your fish really evaluated??

That said, there needs to be some respect for this section to be educational. When I say the fish does not belong here.. why get emotional and offended. That should tell you the fish is not show quality. I have given opinion on several fish here and the purpose is to be the greatest education to all. So you have to wonder why this one was different. Presentation and the fact this section was not taken seriously. Maybe I should be offended.. lol. Now enough..


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## Deanna01

If I could mention, in defense of Basement Bettas (whom I don't actually know in real life and haven't dealt with, I might mention), she is a professional betta judge. I edit novels for a living, so I am well accustomed to needing to tiptoe around feelings while giving people an honest opinion. When you do something professionally, you become accustomed, though, to looking at particular points, and if you are normally allowed only a small amount of text in which to evaluate something, you do become terse; it's simply part-and-parcel of the job. The people who are best at this type of work generally do work hard to find at least one thing to compliment, as well, simply so as not to discourage participants. I haven't followed enough of Basement Bettas replies to know whether she does such a thing, but the work is being accomplished even if she doesn't.


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## babystarz

I would just like to point out that it's entirely possible to walk into *multiple* local stores in my area and leave with show quality Thai imports. So snubbing "pet store fish" is a little behind the times, especially considering some of us have vibrant Asian immigrant communities with access to high quality breeding stock straight from winners in IBC shows in Asia. There are breeders who specialize in helping other people breed and show who own actual stores and sell their show bettas in said stores for others to breed so they can show the offspring. There are two of these stores on the same block here in my area.

I'm not sure why people would want to show their fish. It sounds like tons of work and no fun anyway.


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## snowflake311

babystarz said:


> I would just like to point out that it's entirely possible to walk into *multiple* local stores in my area and leave with show quality Thai imports. So snubbing "pet store fish" is a little behind the times, especially considering some of us have vibrant Asian immigrant communities with access to high quality breeding stock straight from winners in IBC shows in Asia. There are breeders who specialize in helping other people breed and show who own actual stores and sell their show bettas in said stores for others to breed so they can show the offspring. There are two of these stores on the same block here in my area.
> 
> I'm not sure why people would want to show their fish. It sounds like tons of work and no fun anyway.


It dose sound like lots of work and unless you are at the show I don't think it would be fun more stressful then anything. 

I think when most people talk about "pet store" bettas they are talking about the big chain stores. Petsmart and petco can have some nice fish but far from show fish. If you can find a good mom and pop store in this day an age support it as much as you can. Most people only have stores like petco to get fish from.


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## Basement Bettas

Pet Store is a *type*. There are lots of that type for sale on AB right now for good money. And as I breeder I *am* going to snub those fish. Makes no difference who is selling them so why fault me for it. I am looking for a particular type of fish and I have a very hard eye. 

The fish was presented with blurry photos and head on. Op didn't care enough to present the fish in the best possible light so yeah, gonna tell her what I think. Email a top breeder in any animal and ask their opinion of your animal presented in such a fashion and I doubt you get a reply. When you are used to dealing with quality stock and people who care and are really interested in learning that take the time to make the best presentation.. you will take the same time to help them out. There was no respect for what was being asked. 

You may have access to a shop that specializes in quality Bettas. You know darn well you are an exception. Fish that show up in petco and petsmart are bought for about twelve cents. Do you think if that pet shop fish were not plain and common it would have been sold at a higher price? the breeders know what they can get $30 for and the ones that are worth a dime.

And I help people breed and work toward the show ring. Got a few right now working with I hope will be ready in the spring. I give a lot to the hobby.. just choose to do it with breeders breeding for a goal. I used to ride horses. I worked with a trainer. But I was a far cry from Olympic material. There is room for both in the horse world and in bettas. Why in the world get after me for wanting to be those specialized few at the top?


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## beautiful Betta

Basement Bettas said:


> Pet Store is a *type*. There are lots of that type for sale on AB right now for good money. And as I breeder I *am* going to snub those fish. Makes no difference who is selling them so why fault me for it. I am looking for a particular type of fish and I have a very hard eye.
> 
> The fish was presented with blurry photos and head on. Op didn't care enough to present the fish in the best possible light so yeah, gonna tell her what I think. Email a top breeder in any animal and ask their opinion of your animal presented in such a fashion and I doubt you get a reply. When you are used to dealing with quality stock and people who care and are really interested in learning that take the time to make the best presentation.. you will take the same time to help them out. There was no respect for what was being asked.
> 
> You may have access to a shop that specializes in quality Bettas. You know darn well you are an exception. Fish that show up in petco and petsmart are bought for about twelve cents. Do you think if that pet shop fish were not plain and common it would have been sold at a higher price? the breeders know what they can get $30 for and the ones that are worth a dime.
> 
> And I help people breed and work toward the show ring. Got a few right now working with I hope will be ready in the spring. I give a lot to the hobby.. just choose to do it with breeders breeding for a goal. I used to ride horses. I worked with a trainer. But I was a far cry from Olympic material. There is room for both in the horse world and in bettas. Why in the world get after me for wanting to be those specialized few at the top?


please, don't feel everyone is ganging up, I know my guy would be a total fail in the show standards, they wouldn't even get him to flair, lol, he is just way to laid back, always has been. I think the thread details need to be more specific and maybe the pictures that you precented should be left on the thread as an example of how any fish being posted for a critical review needs to be presented, your input would be most helpful to people who are genuinely interested. What I noticed when I looked at your pictures is how perfectly even the blue ones halfmoon tail was and perfect straight lines creating that perfect half crescent shape. I know a little about show fish I kept high quality koi for a while in the UK and it's, scales, skin quality, shape, colour definition, pattern placement, so much to it, so I can understand.;-)


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## babystarz

> You may have access to a shop that specializes in quality Bettas. You know darn well you are an exception. Fish that show up in petco and petsmart are bought for about twelve cents. Do you think if that pet shop fish were not plain and common it would have been sold at a higher price? the breeders know what they can get $30 for and the ones that are worth a dime.


I get that I may be an exception right now, but these setups are becoming more common. All I'm saying is that if a fish was bought in a shop, this does should not automatically preclude it from having genes good enough to produce show quality offspring. Obviously Petsmat/Petco/Walmart/whatever other chain store are not ever going to have show quality fish any more than they will have show quality dogs, and I am not dispyuting it. But there are an increasing amount of independent, owner-run shops in metro areas producing fish with an eye for quality over quantity, who have showed in the IBC and know their standards. It's not just here, I've had the opportunity to meet shop owners in NYC, Sacramento, and Vancouver doing the same thing who have just started out doing this. I think it's an important distinction to make simply because this is the type of business that everyone in this hobby can benefit from, including the fish, who are kept in much better conditions than the usual dirty cup. To be able to walk into a store and be able to ask questions of someone who is both an expert in betta husbandry and shows is a pretty awesome opportunity for people in all facets of keeping these fish, because it is such a departure from the big business setup most of us are familiar with. Making these things more accessible to the masses doesn't mean your approach is wrong at all, nor did I intend to suggest it was. I apologize if I came across that way.


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## megaredize

I've been following this post for who knows why and i really dont know why everyone is still on the subject. Said fish is not a show quaility fish 'nuff said move on. The way basement bettas handled seems fine with me. I wouldn't want someone to sugar coat an answer. people who dont know much about showing bettas shouldnt even be posting in this section without expecting maybe a some what harsh response. I know i wouldnt never post ap ic of one of my fish here and as is this show quality!? lol because i would know a bunch of people who are experts were going to rip the fish apart. This is serious work and takes a lot of time and effort and there is no time to be nice to spare feelings. Plus the pics were awful like come on. how can you judge anything on those pics. if the person wanted to be judge properly they would have done their own homework and took the proper pictures and presented themselves appropriately.

I think everything has debated on this enough. if you dont like what someone has to say then ignore it. that can go for everything on any forum why bother arguing. im sure i will get some hate for this but i will IGNORE it. this will be my only post on this matter. im not trying to be an ass just honest sometimes the truth isnt nice


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## Sakura8

Okay, enough everyone. 

I'm only going to say this once: 

To people who don't show: Please remember that those who DO show have a deep passion for what they do and are knowledgeable in their chosen field. They take time out of a busy schedule to answer questions here and share their expertise when they don't have to. Please also remember that betta showing is not about how pretty or how colorful the fish but about its conformation. When deciding whether or not to ask if your fish is show-worthy, please consider this. 

To people who DO show: Please remember that those who DON'T show do not yet have the same understanding of showing that you do when formulating your replies. There are ways to be honest without being brutally blunt or rude. Please keep in mind that many people come here to ask whether the fish is show-worthy because they don't necessarily understand what show-worthy means in the IBC. For many people, this is their only source of information about IBC and shows and it would benefit the organization greatly if questions were met with courtesy, not criticism.


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## bettafishlover101

Saber said:


> You fail to mention that Westminster has a Junior handlers competition during their show in which the quality of the dog is judged far below the handler's ability. This is done to keep new, younger handlers interested in showing and thus keeping the hobby alive. No, they do not allow any random old Joe to walk in off the street and join the junior handler's competition, but I wasn't saying these betta shows had to be officially run be the IBC either. Local chapters can run their own shows for fun with their own members. I know the CNY betta club did this at least one time in the past. Noooot sure why you're getting so defensive over a person's simple question.


 
I was about to say that after reading teh comments about mock shows.. Actually there are confirmation class mock shows at fairs, and community events. My 6 month old puppy learning the ropes of the right way to walk, how to stand, ect. We didn't have her trained will enough for the junior handler competition, but she did compete at a state fair and win her class and the show. They even allowed spayed and nutered dogs in the mock shows (which is sort of like pet fish being critiqued to standard).. A few mock shows would be a nice learning experience for novice breeders who hope to one day show. 

As for the fish this post was started about. You would need MUCH clearer pictures. And I do not disagree, you need to breed the fish your self. Even the pictures I see from shows are thailand bred bettas, someone bought and wants to show.. Its so unfortunate. Its not about winning, its about that great feeling you get when your fish won, not when you bought a fish for 60+ dollars just to show it.. 

Betta breeding is like dog shows.. Everyone knows everyone. You really can't even tell if a female dog is spayed. So lets pretend, a spayed female dog is like a betta you bought from someone else hoping to win...

Everyone knows everyone, words go around quick, and soon as a breeder you will have a bad rep. Don't show a fish if it isn't yours. That would be compeltly wrong, I understand you're learning. So I dont mean to be mean, I'm just trying to get you to look at the bigger picture. IF you took a clearer picture of the fish I would be happy to critque it for you..



Hmmm.. Maybe we should make a "mock" show on here. Where people could post pictures (even pet store bought), so we could tell them how its wrong by showing them.. Then they would get a better eye for picking out better bettas. Heck, I see "pet quality" on ebay, and aquabid everytime I log on. Breeders should understand "cute" fish only get you so far, its form that really gets you far in the showing world  I would definatly be interested in starting a "mock" show, if anyone else is interested PM me, maybe we could work on something together?


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## bambijarvis

I think doing a 'mock' show on here two or three times a year would be nice.

We have some members here who show their fish and know the standards, if they would be willing to set aside two weekends(say spring and fall?) to put their minds together and 'judge' for us it might do well.

Though we'd need to make it clear that the show isn't there for you to get compliments. It's there to tell you what you need to work on through breeding and where you might stand in competition. The flaws /will/ be pointed out.

With a lot of people here breeding, I would like to see it be fish we've bred only. 

we have a member run contest sub-forum if people want to do petstore-bought shows/competitions.


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## Sakura8

As a member, I'm really all for the idea. I will put it to the moderator team and we'll discuss it.


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## Aluka

oh it sounds like a great idea!


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## Player 2

I came to this thread hoping to find some info on what to look for in a show worthy fish  I am new to this, but I figure with my experience betta breeding for show might be a hobby I could enjoy. Are there any sources I could go to for detailed information?


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## Sakura8

I can direct you to the IBC (International Betta Congress) website.

http://ibcbettas.org/2012/

Otherwise, there are a few members here who may be able to give you the info you seek. You can message them and ask if they'd be willing to share their expertise and/or their sources for info. 

Basement Bettas
Myates
shannonpwns


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## Basement Bettas

My FB page is a good place to start...
https://www.facebook.com/BasementBettas

I can get you other places as well. Several top breeders have FB pages and many of the clubs that host shows have FB pages as well. I have a web site and forum.. so need to contact me direct [ on FB ] if interested.


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## KSbetta

It's nice pretty fish


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