# Single Male vs Sorority



## Mandy Pandy (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm torn. Currently I have a 20 gallon that is on day 3 of cycling so I haven't bought any fish yet so I still have some time to decide. I'm not sure if I want to start a sorority tank or have a single male betta with other fishy friends. Part of me thinks getting a single male would be easier but I like the idea of having those lovely ladies. So..for those of you with a single male in a large tank.. What other fishies do you have in there?


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I would go with a single male if I were you, these are my reasons why.
-with a sorority there is a high chance of accidentally purchasing a young male when trying for a female, making this problem could lead to the death of one of your fish

-there is a high chance of buying a female that is too aggresive for a sorority and will pick on the other females too much 

-you will need to spend hours and hours every clue of days monitoring aggression, so if you have a jam packed day, a sorority isn't the best choice

-and feeding is always a problem as the dominant one will eat an abundance of food, while the others will get a very small amount. Leading to bloating, constipation, and Swim Bladder Disease to the dominant one, and stress towards the skinnier ones


From having multpiple community Betta tanks I have found that plakats seem to be the least aggresive, and lest prone to nipping. Ideally I would aim for either plakats of veil tails as they a the most placid, well behaved ones out of all.

Some great Betta tank mate choices seem to be such as cardinals, neons, embers, most of the Corydoras species, sparkling gouramis, kuhli loaches, endlers, and wild guppies, not fancy ones

Here is a post I made a while back on another forum



Some Betta fish will NOT tolerate tank mates and will go on a killing frenzy when introduced to other fish, so if you do decide to keep your Betta with other fish. Make sure that you have a backup plan incase It doesn't work. And make sure that you add the Betta last, because this will prevent some aggresion. If you add it first then the Betta will claim its territory and then when you introduce the new fish the Betta will think that the new fish are in his territory and kill the fish

generally compatible fish for bettas 

----Name of fish-------minimum tank size------minimum group number

Ember tetras--------10 gallons----------six
Habrosus cories--------10 gallons----------six
hastatus cories------10 gallons-------------six
Von-rio tetras-------------15 gallons---------ideally 7 or more
Pristilla tetras------------10 gallons-----------six
Head and light tetras----10-------------------six
Cherry barbs----------15 gallons----------------six
Neon tetras-------------10 gallons------------ Six
Neons tetras can be a bit nippy when kept in small numbers so you would need atleast 6 to house them properly with a Betta 
galaxy rasboras------------10 gallons-----------Six
panda and pygmy cories------10 gallons-----------Six
most other cories-----------15-20 gallons -----Six 
harlequin rasbora -----------10 gallons---------Six
non fancy female guppies------10 gallons ------- Three
endlers livebearers------------5 gallons---------Three
zebra danios-----------------3.5 foot tank-------Six
Bristle nose plecos------------2.5 foot tank-------One
Bushy nose plecos-------------2.5 foot tank------One
non colorful platies------------10 gallons---------Three
glo fish----------------------3.5 foot tank--------Six
rummy nose tetras------------15 gallons-----------Six
glo light tetras----------------10 gallons----------Six
cardinal tetras----------------15 gallons----------Six
X ray tetras-------------------10 gallons----------Six
"feeder guppies"---------------5 gallons-----------Three
Khuli loaches------------------2 foot tank--------Six
Scissor tail rasboras-------------10 gallons----------Six
Otos---------------------------10 gallons---------3 - 4
Bloodfin tetras-------------------15 gallons-------- Six
Rasbora Brigittae-----------------5 gallons----------Six
Black neon tetras------------------10 gallons-------Six
Endlers-----------------------------5 gallons----------three
Yoyo loaches

Shrimp that are compatible with bettas
Ghost shrimp---------------------2.5 gallons --------one
Amano shrimp-------------------2.5 gallons----------one
Cherry shrimp-------------------2.5 gallons---------one
and a little note about shrimp, they are a hit and miss, some bettas are fine with shrimp and some aren't but all of my bettas have been fine with shrimp that are over 1 inch. I would suggest that a well planted tank with lots of cover should be used when having small ghost shrimp or cherry shrimp

Snails that are compatible with bettas
Apple snails------------------5 gallons-----------one 
Ramshorn snails------------2.5 gallons---------one
Malaysian trumpet snails---2.5 gallons--------one
Pond snails--------------------2.5 gallons---------one
Nerite snails------------------2.5 gallons----------one
Snails


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I was planning on some rainbowfish, but due to wanting to divide my tank I don't think that will happen  Many are ideal for medium hard water which can reduce coloration in soft water amazon fish. Most city taps give hard water in my experience, so you could look into these guys. They are very active and show great colours when you have mixed groups of males and females.
Small Rainbowfish (and blue eyes) that would be good for 20gallons:

Werneri (threadfin rainbowfish)









Gertrudae (spotted blue eye)









Furcata (fork tail blue eye)


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

All of the Bove posted fish aren't the ideal tank mates for bettas due to nipping problems, and aggression


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

You posted neon tetra.
Blue eyes are shy, peaceful fish, and in a proper school, much like tetra, wouldn't be nipping.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I would expect more aggresion from the Betta himself as males will kill any colorful, fast moving, long finned fish such as the ones you recommended. If male guppies aren't generally compatible then those won't do well either. From lots of experience they don't seem to be ideal tankmates together


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I'd divide the tank 2 or 3 times and keep only males with a option of shrimp or a snail.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I have heard that they are great tank mates from people on here.
And a male betta would need to be pretty skilled to catch a fast fish.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Yet. From constantly chasing the fast fish,The fish will be stressed meaning that its immune system would be low, leading to diseases such as ich, fungus, and others. Ideally you want to stay away from this type of habitat. There Many more contributing factors than the ability to catch a fish, just got to think a bit more into it, and you'll find it a bit more important than you originally did

Also, still male bettas will find those types of rainbow fish as intimidating fish and will constantly chase them


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I have heard from people on here that they make great tank mates.
Not all male betta are aggressive, and aggression is possible to ANY fish you mentioned, ANY fish you mentioned can stress a betta just as much, hence I do NOT see the point you are trying to make. Different fish have different attitudes and some can have tank mates and some can't.
Diving it 3 ways for 3 boys would be a good idea. You can have a lot of betta like a sorority but do not have to worry about aggression.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

It's just the general aggresion sequence, Ideally most of the fish I mentioned don't get any aggsion showed to or released. While as the fish you suggested are colorful, long finned, and that's what leads a male Betta to think that it's another make Betta in its territory, there are most likely bettas that will exept that type of fish. But mostly the general amount of aggresion showed from a Betta will be directed negatively towards that fish. I would never recommend that type of fish for a tank with a male Betta, there are also lots of contributing factors to think about when it comes to compatibility, you would need a daily larger, heavily planted, dimly lit tank to keep that combination with your average Betta. Also, from experience on keeping multiple bettas in multiple community setups with a varying, broad range of fish. I've found make bettas boot be typically aggresive towards fish with similar characteristics concerning the fish you recommended

And PS, just Becasue someone else said it, it doesn't mean it's true


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

The only fish with long fins is the threadfin. Their fins are almost always down anyways, those are just displays. Furcata and gertrudae are pretty plain imo. Neons and endlers are much brighter fish that are the same size and activity level. 
And someone keeps them successfully on here.


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

Someone on here successfully keeps females and male bettas together, yet this isn't usually advised. It most likely won't work, neither will The rainbows, they are notoriously colorful fish, In My Experience. And aren't that dull. They have much more colors than my neons, and endlers, and any that I have seen. Also, I have successfully kept guppies and bettas together, they do fine, yet gennerally they don't so it's not advised. Very similar to this situation, I have very rarely heard that rainbows are okay with bettas (from you) and the rest of the time it's just a general experience and opinion that they don't do well together


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

So many people recommended them to me D:
Setting me up for disaster.
I really don't see colour on furcata and gertrudae. A fanned out gertrudae, maybe, but blue eyes? o-o Just some yellow, and a grey blue. Neons and endler's are tres colourful, red, blue, orange..


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

If many experienced fish keepers have recommended them then go for it, I mean, I barely have any experience so I wouldn't know. Lol. They just seem to be the type of fish that wouldn't be compatible. While they might have fewer colors than endelrs and neons, they do seem to be a bit more bright and vivid which leads another male to believe its a threat


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I was given the go ahead by a few experienced people. Wasn't going to do them anymore but now I'm tempted to try it just to experiment. Dx


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Furcata or forktail blue-eyes are pretty boisterous and slightly aggressive to each other in my experience (I had a school of 10 in a 3ft tank). They remind me a lot of danios, just not as nippy. 

Even my gentle honey blue-eye males spar a lot and I'm not sure if all that movement and colour would be stressful to a betta or not. Threadfin males will also spar quite frequently and with the size of their fins when spread, I'm not entirely convinced a betta won't be tempted to take a chomp. 

I have a 10 gallon tank (temporary as their original tank hit cycling issues) with 7 honey blue-eyes in it and they are a constant hum of activity. I suppose the success of any tankmate is going to depend on the personality of your betta. I'm sure some would be stressed out by the presence of such active tankmates, but likewise I am sure there are some that just won't care.

Also threadfin rainbowfish and spotted blue-eyes are softwater rainbows. I'm fairly certain forktails don't mind harder water.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

If the comments a coming from experienced members then I might as well and shut myself up, as myates, sakura, you, bombularina, bryon, and all of hose super smart members know much more than I do.

Should we start a thread on the compatibility of those fish, It might be wise to as it seems as if lots of people would want those tykes if fish


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hmm it says 5-12dH on seriously fish for both, which I thought 9-12dH was decently hard water. 
I also figured that 20 gallons is plenty of room for these fish and would give a betta lots of breathing room.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Here are my 2 cents...
I got 2 labeled female bettas from petco and put them in my 29g planted community tank...then we began to notice that the little pale one was getting darker blue, and very long anal fins...she was a he...a beautiful half moon blue butterfly w/ glorious long fins that rival the Thai bettas! Due to shortage of tanks, I left him in my community while the girl was moved to a sorority...
He is not shy, goes anywhere he, mostly ignores other fish and they ignore him. His tank mates include: pair of Bosemani rainbows, pair of Australian rainbows, 2 clown loaches, 2 big Molly males and some of their kicks offspring, and 4 Cory cats! Each species stays w/its own, no one chases anybody (except mollies), at meal times their is frenzy but everyone eats and no one is overly picked on!
And yes...I know tank is way overstocked but I'm saving for a 50g. I got a 5g that I originally thought to put Sapphire, this male betta, in but I realized that, other than the mollies, he likes other fish and they him...

Every fish has different personality!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Moderator, it's great you're trying to offer advice, but as you said, "I hardly have any experience." So I'm wondering why you're posting it? Not trying to be offensive, genuinely curious. Also your description of sororities was... bizarre.

Let's talk about sororities Mandy -

These are the posts Moderator made AGAINST having a sorority, I will bold correct information about them so you can see my response.

-with a sorority there is a high chance of accidentally purchasing a young male when trying for a female, making this problem could lead to the death of one of your fish - *What? This implies the purchaser isn't paying attention, wouldn't know the difference between male and female, and wouldn't watch the sorority enough to notice a difference in the fish. Also, a male that young is not going to kill every female his size or bigger in the sorority overnight. That is silly. If she sets up her sorority properly, they will all start out separately and she will be able to observe them. If she buys from aquabid or a local fish store, she can be sure they are female. She can also be sure by purchasing larger females with unmistakable egg spots. Sometimes very young males have false egg spots, this will prevent that from being an issue. So, all in all, that is an absurd statement and easily avoidable. *

-there is a high chance of buying a female that is too aggresive for a sorority and will pick on the other females too much *- There* *is always a pecking order in a sorority, with an alpha female, and then going down the line towards the unlucky bottom girl. Someone will probably be picked on every once in awhile, but if there is adequate cover and enough females, this shouldn't be a problem leading to injury. If it becomes a problem, there are several ways to remedy it so that the sorority works just fine. I would be happy to share those with you Mandy. I have a 20 gallon sorority with giant girls over 3 inches as well as a few tiny petco girls, and everything between, with no problems, all added at different times.*

-you will need to spend hours and hours every clue of days monitoring aggression, so if you have a jam packed day, a sorority isn't the best choice-*No idea where you got this idea. Also... she could always pick a different day to release them? Odd statement. When setting up a sorority, you definitely want to spend an hour watching them, but honestly, within 20 minutes, they will basically have a pecking order worked out, and if you provided enough cover, they will be fine. If you feel uncomfortable leaving them like that, you can always cup them and float them together so they can see each other without being able to nip each other. A few missing scales and nipped fins will be normal when they first are released and establishing a pecking order.*

-and feeding is always a problem as the dominant one will eat an abundance of food, while the others will get a very small amount. Leading to bloating, constipation, and Swim Bladder Disease to the dominant one, and stress towards the skinnier ones-*Another bizarre statement, assuming she has no problem solving skills or that this would be an issue in the first place... You just need to throw a few pellets this way and a few pellets that way. Feeding them is not really hard, and they will all come up to the surface for food. Maybe for the first day or so the shyer girls will hang back, but they figure out fast that open lid means food time and they have to be quick before the alpha gets there  They will all get food, don't worry about this. What I do for my giant girls is get them all to one side (they follow your hand) and then with my other hand, throw pellets to the smaller girls in the other direction, and then drop a bunch in for the big girls.

*I don't mean to pick on you Mod, but those were such weird things to say about sororities and not accurate at all! They make it sound like a near impossible operation surely leading to death when really, lots of cover, some luck, and patience are what a sorority requires to be successful. 

Also Mandy, it does not matter the tail type of fish, some will be more aggressive and some will be less aggressive depending on the individual. If you decide to go with wanting male fish, you could also divide your tank a few times if you want and keep multiple males in there.

Here is a link to my sorority log, a step by step guide and things to consider when setting up my sorority. Bettas together look stunning, and although a sorority is slightly stressful to set up, it's easily my favorite tank and I'm so glad I did it. 

My sorority log, so others can learn from my mistakes and successes. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=82286







Ravenwinds - "I got 2 labeled female bettas from petco" - Mandy make sure you have more than two, four is the quoted minimum for a sorority, but the more you have (within the tanks bio-limits of course) and the more cover you have, the less likely an injury. With 2 or 3, one will be ganged up on, and if she is killed, there will only be two, and they will likely clash over territory. It's cool that you got a nice fish out of it ravenwinds  And if you try a sorority again, be sure to check for egg spots and get more females.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm a serious slacker with my sorority. I just chuck newcomers in and let them sort it out between themselves. I have two sororities, a 'good' one and one that gets the scraps. If a female is too aggressive for the 'good' sorority, I put her in the scrap sorority where she will invariably get her butt kicked for the first day by my huge Thailand females. 

I've never had real issues with feeding my sorority. All my females know a tap means food so they all come to the front and I just sprinkle my pellets in a line, sort of like pigs at a trough. 

If someone is too slow to make it to the front, I will just target feed them at the back. 

Sororities can be unpredictable, but generally if you approach them with a sensible amount of caution and set it up correctly from day one, you really stake the odds in your favour.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I agree totally. I'm thinking about setting up a smaller sorority in my 10 gallon for all those poor petco girls. Prevention is key! It's all about the setup and some luck and patience.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

GreenTea said:


> Moderator, it's great you're trying to offer advice, but as you said, "I hardly have any experience." So I'm wondering why you're posting it? Not trying to be offensive, genuinely curious. Also your description of sororities was... bizarre.
> 
> Let's talk about sororities Mandy -
> 
> ...


Oh yes, also. I try to offer as much, and accurate advice that I can. And by I know little, I do. But I am trying to learn and honestly as you can see I'm not learning much and so far I given horrible advise, I might as well and just leave this forum, and give up. I'm no help here at all


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I'm a serious slacker with my sorority. I just chuck newcomers in and let them sort it out between themselves. I have two sororities, a 'good' one and one that gets the scraps. If a female is too aggressive for the 'good' sorority, I put her in the scrap sorority where she will invariably get her butt kicked for the first day by my huge Thailand females.


Betta boot camp? 
I think the main thing about a sorority is that you have to have somewhere to put a mean girl, like LBF said. With a 20 gallon you could easily divide part off for a mean girl.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Green Tea,
No worries...they were just pathetic looking I had to rescue them to go w/ other females and Sapphire did have false egg spot...I thought he was a small pale/marble color...instead just really young!

I agree w/ both of you...took about 20min for girls to set up pecking order, even after adding more girls later on. My sorority has no issues because I gave them lots of hiding places, no fat or skinny bettas in sorority...fish know how to get food.
And the reason Sapphire didn't kill other bettas...I know how to problem solve...a few weeks of good food and water, it became very obvious Sapphire was a boy; didn't even put him in sorority when it was ready because I paid enough time during feeding and cleaning tanks that I knew my fish and their behaviour.
Bottom line is, if you spend time learning your individual fishes behavior, you can go either community tank or sorority. IMO, sororities are no more difficult than community tanks...if a sorority is your heart's desire, go for it!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

*Moderator* - "Oh yes, also. I try to offer as much, and accurate advice that I can. And by I know little, I do. But I am trying to learn and honestly as you can see I'm not learning much and so far I given horrible advise, I might as well and just leave this forum, and give up. I'm no help here at all."

Moderator, no please stay! It's great you are learning and absorbing information. If I came off as being disrespectful, I'm sorry. It concerns me when I see people giving advice on compatibility or in the diseases section when they actually don't know as it potentially puts fishes lives in danger, that's all. I hope you will stay and continue to learn and grow. I didn't know anything when I came here  I mean, just a little. I knew I needed a heater and water changes, and that was it. I learn more all the time! You will too, please stay and help make the forum a well-educated place. And thanks for being willing to learn, a lot of people get REALLY offended and just argue their misinformed views and never take in new information.


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## Mandy Pandy (Mar 17, 2012)

I really do want a sorority... I just didn't know if I was taking on more than I could handle. I haven't had an aquarium since I was about 8 and it's always been my dream to own a betta. At first my plan was to have a male in a 20 gallon with compatible friends but when I heard about sororities... I really wanted to try. Still, I'll probably change my mind a dozen times or more until my tank is finished cycling.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

If you have any questions, please ask me all of them! I'd be happy to help. I know many other members here have sororities, many of them posted in my log, so maybe they will chime in too or you can ask them.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Sororities are great fun! All that beauty in one tank.  My girls all get one really well, so I may not be the best person to ask advice from as my experience has been fairly a-typical, I believe. However, I can recommend them.


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