# New Fry



## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

*Okay so the little guys like JUST came out. Now when do I remove the male? Also when will I be able to clean the water with the fry? If not until 2-3 weeks is it alright that the water hasn't been changed since before I started spawning? If it's not alright what should I do without messing things up?*
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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

*I actually didn't want to wait for an answer from someone from here so yeah I went and RE-READ everything I read before I even bought my first betta. Yeah, I did research, A LOT. Thanks anyway though for your input.*
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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

Megalechis said:


> That's helpful.
> 
> ---
> 
> When working with fry I use a turkey baster to remove debris/etc, and then drip the new water in. So long as you check the bucket you put the water in with a flashlight for escapees, it usually goes well.


*That's a good idea. Thanks. *​


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I don't do water changes until two weeks. I fill the tank an inch everyday. Then at two weeks I remove 50% using an airline siphon with an airstone on the end to avoid sucking anyone up.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> I don't do water changes until two weeks. I fill the tank an inch everyday. Then at two weeks I remove 50% using an airline siphon with an airstone on the end to avoid sucking anyone up.


*I don't mean on specific things. Just on betta in general. What I read about 4-5 months ago told me the male could be kept with the fry for more then a week. After I posted this topic I found out it was 5 days. I wasn't around for my first batch and didn't get to experience any part of it aside from seeing the little tail go up and down. And the male seems very attentive. The only reason I ask is I want to keep the male around as long as possible because I messed up and didn't take the gravel out of the tank that was put in there. So I just want to ensure the maximum survival of my fry. ( I was able to bread my dragon scale and female double tail.(fyi I'm not good at determining the kind of betta aside from the obvious.))

So I would still consider this my first batch of fry and I just want to make sure the things I think I know, are correct.
*​


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

It takes a lot of research to do things correctly. If you're not 100% prepared you will most likely fail. Do you have microworms and other fry food?


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> It takes a lot of research to do things correctly. If you're not 100% prepared you will most likely fail. Do you have microworms and other fry food?


Come on man! We all had our first mess and we all learned from it. They created this forum to help out everyone including beginners . The man is asking for your knowledge


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I understand however my tolerance level of those who do not research for breeding is low. Mainly because I want them to succeed and do things right.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> I understand however my tolerance level of those who do not research for breeding is low. Mainly because I want them to succeed and do things right.


But there no need to add a tolerance level for him to succeed just tell him what to do in a cool way or just step away


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## Megalechis (Apr 23, 2012)

Everyone can miss one or two pieces of information when reading up on breeding, and not even realize they need that information until faced first hand with it. For that matter, in all the breeding articles I've read the past month and a half only two had any reference at all to water changes.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

* The only reason I asked was so I could see if anyone could let me know the longest amount of time I can keep the male in there for him to help out the fry. I feel like they are starting in rough conditions with the gravel being in there and the fact I haven't done a water change in the breeding tank since I started spawning. So I am still curious on the longest amount of time I have before the male starts to chomp down on the fry. 
*​


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If the OP wishes to learn more they can PM me. I'm not trying to be rude here. The OP is near me and I can point them in the direction of great sources of info across our state (and there are MANY).

Anyway, to the OP, the male should be removed within a week. They can be similar to cichlids and provide extra parental care. However, as a newbie the odds are stacked against you. Remove him once they become free swimming (in a day or two depending on temperature). The gravel isn't too big of a deal at this point as long as the water itself is kept clean. Like I said, an airline tubing with an airstone. Gently drip water back in.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I also second the 50% change at two weeks with an air stone. You could even get a system going where you have one airline supplying fresh water to the tank at the same time you are siphoning the dirty water out, so the water level doesn't shift and freak out the fry. When your breeders are in there, always eyeball the bottom of the tank for adult poo and suck it out with a baster, else it will build up into bacteria and ammonia when the fry hatch.


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

This is getting out of hand!To the OP I have done 50% water changes at the second week, throughout the first two weeks I slowly add water in until the tank is full.To the OP good luck with your spawn, one thing I forgot to mention is I use a pipette to suck out any uneaten food in the first two weeks while adding the water!Good Luck!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Seniord first question is always the same in text book or on the net(for beginner)
Free swimming which is 3 days
With the water change
Most book or net say 2 weeks
When u do a water change make sure it the same temp.


Everywhere u read is bare bottom(expect Ofl which she use a soil base)
Gravel is just to much of a hassle to work it
Cleaning is hard 
1)can crush a fry while cleaning the bottom
2)harder to get all the waste and uneatten food
3)going to feed twice as much cause if the live food hiding in the gravel

Hey
Seniord answer these question
What is temp in your tank
Is got tank cover
Do you have any live plants inside of the tank
Size of the tank
How long u set up your breeding tank before putting the fish in
How u Condition your breeding pair
Fry food
Do you have a heater inside of the tank


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Some posts were edited because parts were not helping to answer the OP's question and were contributing to an argument. Further edits may be carried out later upon further review by the moderating team.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

*I woke up this morning to see a lot of my fry died off getting trapped under the gravel. I was worried and took the male out. The fry have been swimming up and down for a day or two now. A few are going side to side. Was it a bad idea for me to take the male from the fry? I know that if you leave the male with the fry for too long he starts eating them so that why I freaked out and took him out.*​


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It's best to go with a bare bottomed tank so stuff like that doesn't happen.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Sniff sniff
Seniord didn't answer my question
Will it kind of hard to help if he/she not going to put in the input
Not moving dark fry don't mean there dead
Puffy white with eye piping out is the only way I can tell
Frys that young will died and disappear with a few hours
So if u still see a bunch of them 
Don't mean theyre dead
With gravel the dad can't really help the fry if there stuck in it


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> Seniord first question is always the same in text book or on the net(for beginner)
> Free swimming which is 3 days
> With the water change
> Most book or net say 2 weeks
> ...




*Sorry I forgot to answer you. And I'm a dude. xD*​


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Will if I'm going to breed
I only feed live food
Don't use any dried food.
To me dried blood hold no value to help in breed or nutrite 
You can have the tank with out live plant(but it's more work)

But its better to have
Produce infusion which fry feed off on the first few days after free swimming
Keep the water cleaner
Try to keep your temp. at a constant temp. for your fry
82-85 is kind of a big spread

Not going to be mean
But your fry have a slim chance of surviving
1) you don't have live plant to produce infusion or have a culture of infusion(fry first meal and can live up to two week with just infusion)
2) you try to spawn to early
you should of set up your tank the same time as you conduction your fish
3) fry don't really eat home made food for there first meal(like egg yoke)


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

+1 Curly

To add on to that, by conditioning curly meant spending around 2 weeks of feeding high quality foods like frozen bloodworms, daphnia, mosquito larvae, grindal worms, blackwroms, etc. Freeze dried food is convenient and not messy, but it has the tendency to bloat the stomach, and isn't very nutritious. 

I am getting a large shipment in of Java moss, you live only an hour away from me so I would be happy to send you some. I also have a few thriving microworm cultures going, and a large amount if brine shrimp eggs, I will also send these to you if you'd be willing to split the shipping costs with me.  

Live foods are crucial to Betta fry, it stimulates their motor skills and let's them "stalk" their prey (super adorable to watch.) It's also the most nutritious food source you can get, and they are very easy to maintain.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

What is done is done. Just try and keep the water clean and fresh, and feed them some microworm at first, then bbs that you culture live.

It really sounds like you only need a few fry to survive anyway. Fewer = easier... they will probably be the strongest of the bunch...

Best of luck,
Jeff.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Microworm will just sink to the bottom and pollut the tank since there gravel on the bottom
More of a mess then good.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

That's true. I would remove the gravel, it serves no purpose other than decor.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

its going to be a a lot of work to remove all the grave 
you can only move a few at a time.
without getting the fry or crushing them


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

*I'm trying to wait until their big enough to catch in a net so I can take out the gravel at least. *

*@ Kaden, I would be willing to meet halfway to avoid any shipping costs.*
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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

I've heard had a person that had the same problem with gravel they covered the top gravel with a big fish bag to prevent the fry's from getting trapped between the gravels. Hope it works


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

Junglist said:


> I've heard had a person that had the same problem with gravel they covered the top gravel with a big fish bag to prevent the fry's from getting trapped between the gravels. Hope it works



*That's a good idea! Also I found out why they were dying off :'C I don't have a temp stick on my breeding tank so on the tank I do have one I leave the heater on in there to see where to leave the nob for the heater and I put the heater in the breeding tank afterwards. But It got unplugged somehow! :'C Well anyway I was only able to save 1 fry! :'C Well now I have the gravel out and will be trying again in a few weeks. Thanks for all the tips everyone.*​


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've also heard of placing IAL along the bottom to prevent that issue. I would give you some IAL but I'm running out myself. When I get a huge order in.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> I've also heard of placing IAL along the bottom to prevent that issue. I would give you some IAL but I'm running out myself. When I get a huge order in.


*What is IAL? Never heard of it? A safe plastic or something?*
*When I saw them swimming under the gravel I tried putting one of the dividers I had under the nest but all the eggs wasn't done hatching so I just left it to chance I guess.*
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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

IAL = indian almond leaf. It's a natural antibiotic, parasitic, and disease preventative. It also helps the fish spawn. Unfortunately it also makes the water a brownish-gold color but with fish like my whites their colors pop with it in the water.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

IAL - Indian Almond Leaf - medicine, water conditioner & stimulater leaf 

Sorry it didn't work out buddy well at least you know what to expect in the near future and learned from it. We are always here to help


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

In order to gain experience you need to make mistakes... I think you gained a LOT of experience here!!:shock:

Better luck next time should you decide to become a breeder.

Jeff.


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

I know this is a bit off topic but, I've been wondering how to get IAL in the states. Anyone know?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Yaoilover12397 said:


> I know this is a bit off topic but, I've been wondering how to get IAL in the states. Anyone know?


I got mine online on ebay. It takes a couple weeks to arrive, but they arrived in good shape, much larger than I thought...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250400226933?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

6 bucks and you get a bunch.

I also ordered some seeds to plant some trees... I will start some in a pot similar to my mango trees but I don't think they can live outside in Michigan?


Jeff.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would think it would be too cold in Michigan for Indian almond trees. You could put them in big pots and try raising them indoors.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Thick heavy leave plants need direct sunlight


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes, they are similar to my Mango trees that I am growing. I have a nice south facing windows and they are very happy! I can also move them outdoors in summer.

Jeff.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I order my leaves from Amy in Singapore. Takes up to two weeks to get here but it's cheaper than buying in the states per leaf.


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

Do you have a link to where Amy sells Dom? Also, what price is it and do you have to use a transhipper?


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> Yes, they are similar to my Mango trees that I am growing. I have a nice south facing windows and they are very happy! I can also move them outdoors in summer.
> 
> Jeff.


*Hey, I read that you have a mango tree. I would pay(Not much) plus shipping for some clippings if you have to spare? Does it fruit? I myself like to bonsai fruit trees. I only have a few lemon trees that I planted from seeds from a lemon but I am always looking for clippings from trees that already fruit. Sorry for being off topic as well. And yes I have read about the Almond leaves but never came across some. Can't really order a lot off line since I just moved to Aurora and I'm still trying to get settled in.

*edit*
Also, if my male makes a bubble nest period does that mean he is ready to breed or would you still have to condition?
* ​


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Amy goes under Amylim on AB and ebay. Transhippers are only for fish. They just pass through customs and then go on to you.


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

What do you buy from her? Like size and grade? Is there a sticky somewhere on it?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I buy the largest amount of grade C she offers. Usually it's about $20.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I too buy my IAL from Amy! I buy the grade C, a lot of leaves last a long time. She also offers free shipping!


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

When buying IAL they have grades (A+,A,B,C etc.) the higher the grade the bigger the leaves the highest grade can reach up to 20"in good for cutting pieces for quarantine jars. Grades C and smaller are good for spawning containers good for nesting and the nutrients for the fry's


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Catappa...846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca6ec50fe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amys-200g-G...079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5880653b8f

so given these options, I'd buy 2 of that quantity from Amy maybe, what would be my better deal?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Actually I'm not entirely sure.

Junglist, the grade refers to the quality itself. Grade C are more tattered and rough where as grade A is flat. My grade C are easily around 8 inches long.


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

Hmm, I'll have to talk to my parents and look into it. I've got to get started on some stuff since I'd like to breed in a week or two. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Blackwa...872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41658bfb38

anyone have any idea on this stuff?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

That stuff is fine. I'm actually going to make some myself soon.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

SeniorD said:


> *Hey, I read that you have a mango tree. I would pay(Not much) plus shipping for some clippings if you have to spare? Does it fruit? I myself like to bonsai fruit trees. I only have a few lemon trees that I planted from seeds from a lemon but I am always looking for clippings from trees that already fruit. Sorry for being off topic as well. And yes I have read about the Almond leaves but never came across some. Can't really order a lot off line since I just moved to Aurora and I'm still trying to get settled in.*​
> 
> **edit**
> *Also, if my male makes a bubble nest period does that mean he is ready to breed or would you still have to condition?*​


I couldn't clip my mangos! But they were not that hard to start, just take some mango pits and stick them in a pot of dirt. You have to bring them indoors in the winter time.

Your male makes a bubble nest because he is a male. You still should condition him.

Jeff.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> Actually I'm not entirely sure.
> 
> Junglist, the grade refers to the quality itself. Grade C are more tattered and rough where as grade A is flat. My grade C are easily around 8 inches long.


Oh my bad, see I'm a old school guy we use banana leaf, back then we use wax paper for nesting and still do, I just started using IAL less than a year ago and still have the stash, I bought 10 A+ and not even done with half. I mostly use Banana leaf for my frys and use IAL for my adults after and before spawning.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

The old school method is what I use for the most part. Most of the books I own contain the old school method of keeping and breeding bettas. I've been meaning to get my hands on some banana leaves.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Banana leave
You want a fully mature/dried leave 
Small dried one tend to fungus up in a few days


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> The old school method is what I use for the most part. Most of the books I own contain the old school method of keeping and breeding bettas. I've been meaning to get my hands on some banana leaves.


My old school books also told to feed egg yolk mush to the fry. I never did get that to work....

Jeff.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> My old school books also told to feed egg yolk mush to the fry. I never did get that to work....
> 
> Jeff.


yeah I would say back then was harder to breed bettas cause their wasn't enough essentials we needed like today's modern style. It was all just eyes and ears on how to breed bettas and only the strong survives off egg yolk, shrimp paste & crush flakes for the fry's


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

My old school books are big on brine shrimp. Egg yolk has worked very well for me in the past. It's all about feeding it in the right amounts around the tank.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> I couldn't clip my mangos! But they were not that hard to start, just take some mango pits and stick them in a pot of dirt. You have to bring them indoors in the winter time.
> 
> Your male makes a bubble nest because he is a male. You still should condition him.
> 
> Jeff.


*Haha! Can't blame a guy for trying. xDD I will probably try it one day but I'm just looking for a clipping that is already mature enough to produce fruit. Or at least 5 years away wouldn't be bad. *

*Well the male I just bread I continued to feed him the dried blood worms and he made a nest already in his new home. So I thought maybe he was "still ready to go".*​


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

SeniorD said:


> *Haha! Can't blame a guy for trying. xDD I will probably try it one day but I'm just looking for a clipping that is already mature enough to produce fruit. Or at least 5 years away wouldn't be bad. *
> 
> *Well the male I just bred I continued to feed him the dried blood worms and he made a nest already in his new home. So I thought maybe he was "still ready to go".*​


I truly doubt if my potted mango will ever bear fruit!

Try to pick up some fresh frozen bloodworms for conditioning. Dried is not on the recommended list....

Jeff.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> I truly doubt if my potted mango will ever bear fruit!
> 
> Try to pick up some fresh frozen bloodworms for conditioning. Dried is not on the recommended list....
> 
> Jeff.


*I know I'm not supposed to. It's all I have at the moment. Would getting some of those Almond leaves help make up for it? *
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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

SeniorD said:


> *I know I'm not supposed to. It's all I have at the moment. Would getting some of those Almond leaves help make up for it? *
> ​


Different use: IAL= helps stresscoat and resistance to disease.
Frozen/live bloodworms = yummy and I'll eat a lot!!

The problem with eating a lot of dried foods is it tends to cause constipation...

Jeff.


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## SeniorD (Feb 15, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> Different use: IAL= helps stresscoat and resistance to disease.
> Frozen/live bloodworms = yummy and I'll eat a lot!!
> 
> The problem with eating a lot of dried foods is it tends to cause constipation...
> ...


*Oh eeew, maybe that's why these female seem to be more cranky then my last 7. xD*
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