# Quick question: Should I keep this kit or go back to the vase?



## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=111&PROD_ID=01134000020101

Theres the link for the kit I have, I bought my betta (Prometheus) about 3 weeks ago and have been keeping him in a Large polish vase (Pic reference coming in the morning) with warm, unconditioned tap water. He made a bubble nest 3 times during the 2 weeks he was in it. I made 4 or 5 100% water changes. There were no accessories. I fed him 2 or 3 pellets from (img below) twice a day, and he ate everything.

I recently switched to the above link, and I've noticed he isn't eating as much, his fins look a bit tattered, but i think it may be the plant thats in there (It's plastic). I'll remove it in the morning and try the pantyhose test i read in another thread. Oh, and no bubble nest in the 4 days hes been in the new tank.










List of Betta Kit contents:

1/2 Gal (1.84L) Aquarium

Tap water conditioner

Color enhancing flake food (Not currently being used)

Plastic plant

Gravel


Im pretty sure the vase Prometheus was in before, was at least 1 Gal, possibly 1.5.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. 

~Drew


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## MustardGas (Apr 22, 2010)

I would move him back to the vase.. it seems much bigger than the 1/2 gallon he's in now. Your best bet would be to get at least a 2.5 gallon (5 is better, and not that much more expensive) with at least a heater. Your betta will love you and be a lot healthier. 

And the bubblenest isn't really a sign of happiness, it's more instinct than anything. I work at PetSmart and see even the most pathetic, emaciated bettas make nests. (They come in that small. We do our best to fatten them up)

We sell those kits and I really wish we didn't. All it is is a glorified toilet; it's small and cold and gets dirty really fast. An upgrade will make things easier too. The water stays cleaner longer, plus your fish will have less of a chance of developing behaviours such as tail biting and glass surfing.

Edit: Here's a good tank. It's only $30 and comes with the glass tank, hood/light, and a filter. All you need is a heater and gravel/decor.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Aquarium-Starter-Kit-5-Gallons-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/12177653

Also the very popular Hawkeye:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hawkeye-5-gal-Tank-Aquarium/14660258?findingMethod=rr


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## ReyesBetta (Aug 31, 2010)

That tank isn't big enough, a 2.5 gallon tank should be a *minimum*. Dechlorinator MUST be used also.

Darn I was beat.


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## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

MustardGas said:


> I work at PetSmart and see even the most pathetic, emaciated bettas make nests. (They come in that small. We do our best to fatten them up)
> 
> We sell those kits and I really wish we didn't. All it is is a glorified toilet; it's small and cold and gets dirty really fast. An upgrade will make things easier too. The water stays cleaner longer, plus your fish will have less of a chance of developing behaviours such as tail biting and glass surfing.


I'm pretty sure he's already a glass surfer, when I was trying to take pics of him I noticed it, but didn't know it was a behavior to watch for.

I actually got both my fish and the kit from Petsmart.
Should I move the gravel to the vase or does it even matter?


Edit: RE: Thanks for the tank links. bookmarked 'em and will get 1 within the next week or so, as my funds are mighty limited.



ReyesBetta said:


> That tank isn't big enough, a 2.5 gallon tank should be a *minimum*. Dechlorinator MUST be used also.


I'll look for a bigger tank on craigslist.
Can anyone recommend inexpensive dechlorinators?


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## MustardGas (Apr 22, 2010)

A good dechlorinator/conditioner is Prime. The price might be a bit hefty at first glance, BUT with the small bottle the dose is only 2 drops per gallon, and a bigger bottle is one capful for every 50 gallons. I think 250mL treats 2500 gallons, so a little goes a long way and it's actually a fantastic price.

You're welcome for the links, too! 

About the gravel: I don't think it really matters if you add it to the vase. The only upside I see is that any mulm will catch in it a bit and not be constantly floating around the vase.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

As of right now keep the kit but post some pics of the vase so we could see how big and roomy it was for him.


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## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> As of right now keep the kit but post some pics of the vase so we could see how big and roomy it was for him.






























Okay, so its not as big as I estimated. Votes? Vase or kit until I can get a bigger tank?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well i would say the kit because the vase really doesnt hold much, and The kip looks a little better, but your water in th kit is turning a little cloudy, why is that?

Did you rinse the aqua decor? 

Keep the kit because all you have to do is fill the kit a little more and he should be happy, the vase is just tall and you see where the vase closes and opens up again, that is where the water has to stop and if he is swimming at the bottom of his vase, and he needs to breath quick he will have to race up to the top fast and take a breath, but in the kit he will just have to swim a little ways up to breath and still have a wider range of swimming.


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## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

I did not rinse before putting in the decor, should I pull him out and do that? Or is it too late?

The water line on the vase usually stops below the close, right under the sticker. I thought that because the mouth of the vase is so small compared to the circumference, that I would keep the water line a little lower to avoid Prometheus surfing the glass on his way up for air.


*Going to my LOCAL fishy store, rather than Petsmart, to look at bigger tanks*


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes you should rinse the decor and everything in it befor using or puting anything that has to do with the tank so take him ut and rinse (WITHOUT SOAP!) 

Good job with the vase and not filling the vase all the way up to the tip top! 

So just take him our rinse everything, put declorinator and you COULD add stress zyme or stress coat to calm him but its not a need. so thats your choice with the stress coats.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

With Prime, you get the most dechlorinator for your money since it's more concentrated than other dechlorinators. 

Neither of these tanks are suitable homes for a betta. I would return the kit ASAP, the company that made that deathtrap doesn't deserve to profit from it. 

As far as getting another tank, craigslist is a great option. If you want to buy any other supplies, I highly recommend ordering online. Each item online is often marked down $10 or more because they don't have to cover all of the expenses of a retail store (paying mortgage, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc). I use http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578 the shipping is a very reasonable flat rate and they have a much better selection of high quality products than you would find at any pet store. I suggest purchasing Prime dechlorinator, an adjustable 25watt heater, silk plants/decor items, gravel, and a test kit online. You will save a lot of money. The best part is that they take paypal, so you don't need to have a credit card to order. Just a bank account.


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## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

I have him in the vase for now, with a ping-pong ball to see if he'll push it around. I'm returning the kit because I have that option and it frees up more moula for a bigger tank.  

I'll post pics later.

Thank so much MG and BL. I'm glad I stumbled upon this site. You guys have been a great help. <3

*Edit* 



Adastra said:


> With Prime, you get the most dechlorinator for your money since it's more concentrated than other dechlorinators.
> 
> Neither of these tanks are suitable homes for a betta. I would return the kit ASAP, the company that made that deathtrap doesn't deserve to profit from it.
> 
> As far as getting another tank, craigslist is a great option. If you want to buy any other supplies, I highly recommend ordering online. Each item online is often marked down $10 or more because they don't have to cover all of the expenses of a retail store (paying mortgage, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc). I use http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578 the shipping is a very reasonable flat rate and they have a much better selection of high quality products than you would find at any pet store. I suggest purchasing Prime dechlorinator, an adjustable 25watt heater, silk plants/decor items, gravel, and a test kit online. You will save a lot of money. The best part is that they take paypal, so you don't need to have a credit card to order. Just a bank account.


Thank you!!

Side note: There should be a thank you button for helpful posts. Maybe?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Adastra said:


> With Prime, you get the most dechlorinator for your money since it's more concentrated than other dechlorinators.
> 
> Neither of these tanks are suitable homes for a betta. I would return the kit ASAP, the company that made that deathtrap doesn't deserve to profit from it.
> 
> As far as getting another tank, craigslist is a great option. If you want to buy any other supplies, I highly recommend ordering online. Each item online is often marked down $10 or more because they don't have to cover all of the expenses of a retail store (paying mortgage, employees, utilities, maintenance, etc). I use http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578 the shipping is a very reasonable flat rate and they have a much better selection of high quality products than you would find at any pet store. I suggest purchasing Prime dechlorinator, an adjustable 25watt heater, silk plants/decor items, gravel, and a test kit online. You will save a lot of money. The best part is that they take paypal, so you don't need to have a credit card to order. Just a bank account.


i agree completely go to craigslist!!!


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## Prometheus916 (Aug 31, 2010)

So I returned the death trap, and found a 2 1/4 gal tank from Petsclub, (Sams club/costco of pet stuff?) for less than the cost of the kit. Sweet! 

I also noticed that they carried the stress coat from foster and smith for less. I did not see any dechlorinators though. :-( So I've used the rest of the conditioner that came with the kit a perfect 4 cap fulls. (1 cap = .5 gal) 
I put warm water in the tank and I'm letting the water sit for a lil while. Prometheus will be in his new (possibly final) home in a few hours. :-D :-D

I was looking at gravel while i was in petsclub, and noticed they all said epoxy coated, anyone know what that means or what its uses are?
And can I use sand rather than gravel?


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Sand can be harder to clean--since this is a small unfiltered tank, you're going to have to maintain it using the uncycled method. This means that every 3-4 days, you'll need to change 100% of the water and wash the tank and everything in it with hot water in order to remove all of the ammonia, ammonia residue, uneaten food, and poop from the tank. If you use sand or gravel, this will be a bit more challenging to do and you risk getting gravel and sand grains down the drain of your sink, which is about the fastest way to ruin a garbage disposal. 

I suggest using either no substrate, or you could use larger glass pebbles, or larger river rocks quarter sized or larger. Most pet and craft stores sell them.

Small live plants, like java moss in particular, would help remove some of the ammonia in the tank and keep the water more clean between water changes. It doesn't have roots, so it doesn't need to be "planted" so to speak.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

its recommended that gravel is used because sand it very messy and can contain things that only Salt water fish can sustain in. so as a beginner i would just stick to gravel. pictures?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Adastra said:


> Sand can be harder to clean--since this is a small unfiltered tank, you're going to have to maintain it using the uncycled method. This means that every 3-4 days, you'll need to change 100% of the water and wash the tank and everything in it with hot water in order to remove all of the ammonia, ammonia residue, uneaten food, and poop from the tank. If you use sand or gravel, this will be a bit more challenging to do and you risk getting gravel and sand grains down the drain of your sink, which is about the fastest way to ruin a garbage disposal.
> 
> I suggest using either no substrate, or you could use larger glass pebbles, or larger river rocks quarter sized or larger. Most pet and craft stores sell them.
> 
> Small live plants, like java moss in particular, would help remove some of the ammonia in the tank and keep the water more clean between water changes. It doesn't have roots, so it doesn't need to be "planted" so to speak.


i agree!! Also, You can use pebbles in your stone driveway if you have one, but (not recommended) although they give the tank a good natural look to it and they must be in treated water and washed and cleaned perfectly and with no soap before adding as some tank rocks, and Look for sharp or pointy edges that the betta will get snagged with so watch out for those!!


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

I use pebbles in my tank! They are awesome, but super obnoxious when it comes to putting in fake plants with the green cuppy thign at the bottom. The pebbles are barely small anough to go in the cup, so it takes FOREVER to cut the plants set up. grrr... but other then that i <3 them, and they certainley do give a nice 'look' to the tank.


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## peaches3221 (Jun 1, 2010)

i'd say go with the kit. i've had it, and its a pretty good betta home. (my betta now lives in a half gallon critter carrier) some people may tell you they need a heater and filter but they can live in a half gallon tank IF IT IS CLEANED AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK! and definately rinse the gravel!


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## Vincent (Sep 10, 2010)

peaches3221 said:


> i'd say go with the kit. i've had it, and its a pretty good betta home. (my betta now lives in a half gallon critter carrier) some people may tell you they need a heater and filter but they can live in a half gallon tank IF IT IS CLEANED AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK! and definately rinse the gravel!


Once A week for a half Gallon? :O
Thats wayyy underkill, for a half gallon should be 100% almost everyday, i'd be scared to put my finger in the water if i only cleaned it once a week


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

peaches3221 said:


> i'd say go with the kit. i've had it, and its a pretty good betta home. (my betta now lives in a half gallon critter carrier) *some people may tell you they need a heater and filter but they can live in a half gallon tank IF IT IS CLEANED AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK!* and definately rinse the gravel!


Uh... No.


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

alex09 said:


> uh... No.



+100


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

I used to have a betta in a .25 gal critter keeper when I was 12. The only thing in there besides the fish were some glass stones. I overfed him. I cleaned it once a week (as the pet store told me to). To clean it I would dump out the old water, put in new water, and the fish back in. and surprisingly the fish made it several months before winter came. It also developed a horrible case of fin rot (I just thought he was old) and died of cold. I feel bad now :'( Oh well. Im more grown up now and a more dedicated owner. If a life is in my hands then I will do all in my power to make sure it is happy. Not that I was a bad person when I was 12, I just wasnt educated in fishkeeping and I didn't have the money to be buying fancy tanks and heaters and such. Now that I look back, I had no right to keep that fish If I couldnt take care of it in a proper way.

PS: Nothing against the OP - just a random rant


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## zelilaa (Jul 31, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> I used to have a betta in a .25 gal critter keeper when I was 12. The only thing in there besides the fish were some glass stones. I overfed him. I cleaned it once a week (as the pet store told me to). To clean it I would dump out the old water, put in new water, and the fish back in. and surprisingly the fish made it several months before winter came. It also developed a horrible case of fin rot (I just thought he was old) and died of cold. I feel bad now :'( Oh well. Im more grown up now and a more dedicated owner. If a life is in my hands then I will do all in my power to make sure it is happy. Not that I was a bad person when I was 12, I just wasnt educated in fishkeeping and I didn't have the money to be buying fancy tanks and heaters and such. Now that I look back, I had no right to keep that fish If I couldnt take care of it in a proper way.
> 
> PS: Nothing against the OP - just a random rant


\

xD sorry i laughed when i read this. im 12 years old, got my fish a month ago, and i have him in a 2.5 gal filtered tank that i do 30% water changes once a week and lots of bright l.e.d lights and live plants


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## peaches3221 (Jun 1, 2010)

well, i read on betta talk (another betta fish website) that a half gallon bowl should be cleaned once or twice a week. http://bettatalk.com/housing.htm (under set-up #3)


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Sorry to burst your bubble Peaches, but no. Just no. Before i figured out betta care, that was what I was doing to Puffy. I don't have pictures to show you how well he was "thriving" (*coughdyingcough*) but I can tell you, it was bad enough for me to get really concerned about. Without any filter, cycling, or live plants, ammonia builds up so quickly, it's horrible. Even 100% daily doesn't cut it. When I was getting a tank together for Puffy and cycling it, and cleaning his death kit every day, he still had severe fin rot and biting issues and glass surfing issues. All in all, even with the best care in those things, a betta will become a wreck. Also, it's better to have clean water with a slightly stressed fish than dirty water and a dirty fish. Clean water combats sickness more than stress causes it.
Besides, the articles says the following:


> The smaller jar (half gallon or so) may also be a suitable betta home but will require *constant cleaning. bettas in this type of set-up will tend to deteriorate* and more than likely will end up getting fin and tail rot and other bacterial diseases


Prometheus, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but you will want to invest in a good heater for your tank as well. Being tropical fish, bettas need constant warm water temperatures that do not fluctuate, otherwise they can become sick.


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## SilverCaracal (May 9, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> I used to have a betta in a .25 gal critter keeper when I was 12. The only thing in there besides the fish were some glass stones. I overfed him. I cleaned it once a week (as the pet store told me to). To clean it I would dump out the old water, put in new water, and the fish back in. and surprisingly the fish made it several months before winter came. It also developed a horrible case of fin rot (I just thought he was old) and died of cold. I feel bad now :'( Oh well. Im more grown up now and a more dedicated owner. If a life is in my hands then I will do all in my power to make sure it is happy. Not that I was a bad person when I was 12, I just wasnt educated in fishkeeping and I didn't have the money to be buying fancy tanks and heaters and such. Now that I look back, I had no right to keep that fish If I couldnt take care of it in a proper way.
> 
> PS: Nothing against the OP - just a random rant


That cracked me up!! I was just the same...well now I'm a bit more experienced. My betta lives in a filtered 2.5 gallon with live plants and all that stuff. 

Peaches - I used to have one of those kits. Your betta will survive for a few months, but he will develope a serious case of fin rot. I learned it the hard way because now Ares has a blob looking tail  It won't grow back...

Oh and if you have one of those 1/2 gallon things, they need to be cleaned every 1-2 days.


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