# My Breeding Project



## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Today I introduced my pair into the breeding tank and I hope they will breed soon. Here I will post on the project and the development of the fry. I'm so excited!


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

I've released the female from the jar now, and they are both swimming in the tank. But it seems that weird things are happening. The two fish would normally flare when they saw eachother but when I put them in the tank, nothing happened. They just swam around minding their own buisness. The male prefers swimming at the bottom of the tank, hiding behind the filter, and the female swims at the top a lot. The female has gone over and nudged the male several times, and I think she wants to mate, but the male just swims away. What could be wrong?


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

is she showing breeding bars? How long had you been conditioning them?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Can you tell us more about your breeding set-up

Sometimes you just have to give them time and

Sometimes you can over-expose them to each other and you need to put them in separate container so that they can't see each other for a couple of day and feed well with live or frozen food, neither should be in the spawning tank and located so that they can't see each other, water temps at 76F and the spawning tank at 80F- after 3 days drop both in the spawning tank together to shock them...they should start spawning within an the hour and no longer than 3 hours-this is what has worked for me with hard to spawn fish-you also have to have the tank set-up right for this to work as well-otherwise one may kill the other.....good luck


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks, I will try that. I left the female in overnight, and when I woke up, nothing has changed. So I took the female out. I've conditioned them for a whole week. When I woke up, there was still no bubblenest. So should I leave the male in? Or take them both out then put them in at the same time 3 days later? This is the spawning tank it is 10 gallons:


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Why don't you try putting the male in first and float the female in a jar or container in the tank. When the male makes a nest and you can see the female with her vertical bar and she isn't afraid of the male and is flaring at him you can release her into the tank. Oh and a good thing to add to your awesome tank setup is a hiding place you can get those pink little cave at wal-mart for about $3 its super good for the female betta to hide while the male is trying to court her. From my own experience if the female is being chase by the male and she goes hide she will get her vertical line backs meaning she wants to spawn, but if he chase her and she gets freaked out and shows the horizontal line for a long time I don't think your pair will spawn. Another thing is you can try covering the whole tank with with card board to make it dark for your betta this is something a close friend of mine told me, but I never used this method before.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Try some Indian Almond Leaves, the cave, and keeping it a bit darker.


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Yep just like Mr. Vamp said mine didn't breed until I turned off all the lights and only kept the little lamp light on. I guess most female bettas are afraid of the lights lol. Took my bettas 5 days in the plastic tub to spawn.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've had spawns with bright lights but they prefer not so bright lights. I use a little tank light from a 1 gallon over the tank (plus plastic wrap to keep it humid).


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would recommend that you add more plants....real is best- if not for the production of live food for the fry along with some common snails, also I would fill the tank up to the top with water as well-you want enough plants in the tank to work as a natural divider and this also helps to prevent premature egg drops-keep the pair apart and mass feed them and then drop them in the tank at the same time....don't worry about the bubble nest just provide something in the tank for him to use-he will build the nest once he has eggs in his mouth or during the courting process-lights don't matter one way or another on or off...when they are ready to spawn they will regardless.....and try to leave them alone once you put them in the tank...keep your distance and let nature happen....some nip and torn fins are normal.....just have plenty of space and places for the female to get away and rest...when she is ready she will approach the nest/male and signal to him she is ready......good luck....


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm probably going to try your method of putting them in at the same time maybe once because I have seen alot of people posting this method with success.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

leeb62 said:


> I'm probably going to try your method of putting them in at the same time maybe once because I have seen alot of people posting this method with success.


Well....I only have about 50 successful spawns a year with this method with an average of 200+ fry...however, once I cull at 2 weeks- I only end up with 50-60 fry and with another cut at 4 weeks I will get 20+ more or less...that I raise to adults for re-sale...I can't seem to produce enough fast enough anymore-but I look for quality more than quantity....lol....the trick is the set-up design, understanding the triggers, importance of nutrition and water quality for both the breeders and fry......a lot of breeders have little understanding of the what and why something is done the way it is......and still follow the old ways when science and logic tell you different.....


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Can you show us one of your tank setup or better yet a video would be awesome! Just recently found out about the method your talking about.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't have a video but here is a pic of a couple of my spawning tanks....


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Oh wow nice tanks. Is that white terta in your spawning tank?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That is long finned Danios that I was spawning at the time of the pic....I use the same tanks/set-up to spawn a lot of different species of tropical fish.


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Oh i c very nicely planted fish tanks you have. I can see why your bettas spawn in those tanks very well alot of plants to hide behind for the female to recover after the male chase her.


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## Panthera (Nov 2, 2010)

Wow nice tanks Oldfishlady! I'm really researching breeding Betta's now, I think it would be really interesting to do it someday. Do you recommend using live plants over plastic or silk plants? Is there really much of a difference? I can't seem to find ANY live plants in the Petco or Petsmart near me, and I don't really want to order online. Thanks!


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

They should have liveplants in Petco and Petsmart unless people goes everyday to buy the plants from there lol?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Yes live plants make a big difference. The help create infusoria which baby bettas eat.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Duncan13 said:


> I've released the female from the jar now, and they are both swimming in the tank. But it seems that weird things are happening. The two fish would normally flare when they saw eachother but when I put them in the tank, nothing happened. They just swam around minding their own buisness. The male prefers swimming at the bottom of the tank, hiding behind the filter, and the female swims at the top a lot. The female has gone over and nudged the male several times, and I think she wants to mate, but the male just swims away. What could be wrong?


Bettas always flare when they see other bettas. Flaring is not a sign of readiness. I suggest you isolate both breeders in a smaller bare tank and place it somewhere dark for a few days. Don't forget to feed live or frozen food excessively. Then on the 2nd/3rd day, try showing the female to the male and see how the male swims. You want him to swim in a wriggly fashion and all over the tank (as if showing off to the female). If they do, you can put them in the breeding tank. Otherwise, isolate again. 

Try flaring the male to another male (some do it for 5 min, I do it for 1 hr).... careful though, if they're not used to flare, don't do it too long. Isolate after flaring and try again the next day. The male usually will want to spawn.

OFL's method works as well.

Good luck.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I highly recommend live plants not just for the food and cover it can create for the fry- but for the natural cover for the female as well-however, silk plants will work in a pinch for spawning cover for the female, the tank needs to be crammed full with them to a point that the male has trouble getting through them except for an area under the nest sight-this needs to be free of any silk plants. Once spawning is completed you can remove most of the silk plant so that cleaning is easier.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Indjo: I figured out why the male was not flaring. It was becuase the light was too bright. When I moved the light away, he comes out and swims in the wiggly way. I tried the method that leeb62 said. I put the female in the little floaty jar overnight and when I woke up she had jumped over into the tank. They've been in the tank for 3 days, today is the third day. They have been chasing eachother for a couple of days now, but still no spawn or bubblenest. The I put in part of a bubblenest from another male that made a huge one, to try to encourage him to build a nest. Also, I keep the light off because the bettas (the male one especially) are scared of the light. They seem to do the best in almost complete darkness. Other than that, nothing interesting is happening, they just swim around and occasionally chase each other. How long should I try this for, because it seems that the female is getting tired, since the male is chasing her a lot. I added some leaves and a little cave for her to hide under. Also, half of her caudal fin has been bitten off. I'll try to take more pictures after I recharge my camera.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Once they're together, there's nothing you can do but wait. Putting the female in a jar before releasing her is intended to reduce injury. But since she jumped.... just be patient and prepare a Hospital tank for the female. 

Some males make bubble nests Just before they spawn. In fact some don't make bubble nest until the fry hatch. So don't worry about the nest and try not to disturb them too much. 

Good luck.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks for the advice


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

Is your female showing her vertical bars? If she is keep her in there sooner or later your male will build the next. If he doesn't build one by day 5 you should probably take them out and recondition them then decide if you want to try a different male who can build a bubble nest. Sometimes first time males don't really know how to build a bubblenest or take longer to build one. Do you have your bubbler on if you do that might be destorying his nest. Do you also have something for the male to build on? Try a Indian almond leave if you have one or those styfoam cups cut in half. I think your female must be ready to mate since she jumped out of the jar into the tank, but maybe your male just isn't that happen to my one of my pair too. Female was ready but male wasn't so the female beat up the male.

Good luck to you and hopefully your male gets his act together soon.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

The male chases her and stuff, but no bubblenest. Maybe I shouldn't have used that male because I've never seen him blow a bubblenest before. But I really want to use him since he has great coloring and fins. I will wait until Saturday, and then try a similar male I have that is blowing huge bubblenests. The female seems ready but she is not showing any vertical bars. Her body is light colored so maybe thats why. Shes also exploding with eggs .


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## BettaJ (Nov 18, 2010)

im on the same boat. white female. fat. and no way to see veritcal pars.

difference is my pair doesnt fight at all. i just fed them both and they took turns eating from my hands.

-i have however seen my male build a nest, but now he stopped when i moved him into the breeding tank!:shock:


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah, its been quite a while now. I'm going to take out both fish and clean out the spawning tank. Then I'm going to condition the same female, but with a different male. I heard somewhere that the best way to get them to spawn is to condition them, but right before you put them into the breeding tank, put them in a small bowl with cold, dirty water or somewhere with unideal conditions for 12 hours or so, then put them into the spawning tank at the same time. They say that the pair will spawn immediately. Is that true? If so, I think that I'll try that method.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Duncan13 said:


> I heard somewhere that the best way to get them to spawn is to condition them, but right before you put them into the breeding tank, put them in a small bowl with *cold, dirty water or somewhere with unideal conditions* for 12 hours or so, then put them into the spawning tank at the same time. They say that the pair will spawn immediately. Is that true? If so, I think that I'll try that method.


IME most kinds of fish will instinctively spawn when they feel their life is at risk. But I would not recommend it. Many things may go wrong and instead of spawning, you might get sick fish. Perhaps you could lower the temp, but I wouldn't use dirty water.

I usually isolate reluctant pairs in 1g and place them somewhere dark. Then flare the male for about an hour; I lift the divider about 1 inch. I'd also flare the female (for 5min) because IME aggressive females spawn faster. After at least 24 hour rest, show the female to the male and see how he swims. I don't wait for bubble nests. If they flirt, remove him to the breeding tank, float the female and see how they act.

Sometimes I would use small plastic containers to breed reluctant/more docile males or for bad fathers. The small space will allow the pair to always see each other and will make the process quicker. Try to use aggressive females for reluctant males. Once the fry are free swimming, you could slowly pour them into a bigger tank.

What ever method you use is personal preference. But be careful if you choose to alter water conditions. 

Good luck.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Great advice! My female is not aggressive, she likes to bug the male, but when the male starts flaring at her, she swims away. I'll try what you said and see how it works. Thanks again!


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Now I'm trying a new pair but still no success. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Here is a photo of the spawning tank but now it has a cave in it. I've also attached a photo of the pair. Please give me advice! Thanks!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You posted on another thread that your temp is only 26*C. Try raising that to 28*C and see if their mood changes..... Oh, keep them separated as I suggested earlier.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks, I will


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