# Big male, small female.



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I have a part bred giant male that I want to breed to a regular sized female - what are the chances that they'll struggle to wrap properly? I'd like to breed them soon as she's bursting with eggs and he's obsessively building bubble nests. They both seem ready despite the fact that they've only been conditioned for a couple of days. 

The male is not massive like some of the giants you see on the web but he is considerably bigger and bulkier than his regular sized neighbour. The girl seems so small and feminine in comparison ;-; I had no idea he'd be this big when I bought him, there was no word about his size from the seller lol


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## FishyOfTheOpera (Jul 13, 2015)

I'm pretty sure the male is supposed to be larger, but im not experienced in breeding


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Shouldn't be a problem. But if you're worried, make the male a bit thin . . . average thin - not fat/bulky (in comparison to length). This will enable him to embrace females half his size. Fat males will have a hard time but should do the job as well. 

Make sure to provide adequate hiding places for the female opposite the nest. Bigger male may do more damage to smaller females.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm not too sure how to do that without wasting the conditioning process. And he has a big appetite - all my other bettas eat two pellets per feeding while he eats five and _still_ doesn't look full. 

Yeah, my set up has bubble wrap in the right front corner and plants and caves in the left back corner. The females seem to really appreciate it especially after they're done spawning and the male starts chasing them again. I have to be careful with this girl though as I can't have her damaged too much - I plan on breeding back one of the offspring to her. 

I have another quick question while we're here: what live foods are good? Obviously vinegar eels for the first day or two, and then microworms and BBS. With my current batch of fry I moved them into frozen stuff at 6 weeks but they've been growing really slowly - I'm wondering if live foods could fix that problem. I ordered some white worms and grindal worms for when they're a little bigger. Is there anything else I should get?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

The difference with live food should be the amount fry eat. More should = faster growth. Frozen foods cannot be left in tank so fry cannot snack between meals. Local breeders (show oriented) use BBS as soon as possible then switch to daphnia until they are ready for show.

This year I use frozen daphnia after they've reached +/- 3mm (I used to use live). Once they realize my hand = food they grow rapidly. After 5mm+ I start adding frozen bloodworms - chopped, of course, or 3-5mm tiny bloodworms. After 1.5cm I use live tubifex worms and they grow even faster. Add regular water changing to the equation, and you should have optimum growth. 

The only "stunter" I can think of is too small a tank compared to number of fry. The more fry you have, the more frequent you need to change water.

Basically, IME, wormy foods are especially good for growth and should be given until (at least) the first 3 months (For faster growth). After that start using shrimpy food to develop their color and fins. They will grow slower, but their fins should develop better. This doesn't mean wormy foods will ruin their fins. And the actual difference between the two types of food is often small. But for show oriented breeders, it makes a difference (they often switch to daphnia as soon as fry are big enough to devour them).

Perhaps others can chime in with their experiences.
. . . . . . . . . . . . 

About making betta thinner - Yes I too often put them on a diet instead of mass feeding. 
EG. Bigger bettas can eat 60 frozen bloodworms if I let them (specially females). But that may kill them in the long run. I limit them at 30-40 on regular days. If I need them slimmer, I would only feed 20 per feeding. I also may reduce frequency from 2-3 times to only once. This shouldn't affect healthy bettas too much. . . . I'm not sure how pellets work because I've never used them. From your explanation, it sounds as if your big guy is eating a regular portion - no diet needed. Bigger bettas do look bulkier than regular ones. Try viewing from top - do they look similar (width-length ratio).


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Thanks for the info, helpful as always  I need to find a way to culture my own daphnia as the fish aren't find of the frozen stuff and packets of live are awfully expensive. Not to mention that I have to travel pretty far to get them as none of my local shops carry any sort of live food :/ 

The pair are wrapping as we speak and they don't seem to have much trouble with it - the male didn't realise he had to pick up the eggs at first but he's getting the hang of it. 

From too he looks slim like my others but if you look at him side on he's just _thick_. He's also strong. Very strong. He rammed himself into the side of the tub when chasing the female earlier and I swear I thought he was going to crack the plastic.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Wonderful! Good luck with your spawn!


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Thank you Hrutan  the fry have hatched and the dad's out - thank goodness there's not as many as in my last spawn lol.


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

I tried breeding a king to a regular-sized female and he completely destroyed her.


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

Congrats on the spawning! Will you be making a spawn log?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Congrats . . . now the real fun begins. Keep us updated. . . . with tons of pictures


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