# Broken Back or Dying?



## angel01 (Sep 26, 2009)

My betta Pasha has been lying on his side for a while now (over a month). At first I thought it was swim bladder disorder so I starved him for 4 days. He didn't seem to want to eat at all anyway. I tried to give him pieces of a pea but he wouldn't come up to the surface and the peas just floated to the bottom. Ever since, I have only given him 2 pellets of Hikari Bio Gold a day. He doesn't seem to have an appetite at all. The food floats around for a while. Once in a while I will see him shimmy up to the surface to try to get at it. Usually it looks like a big concerted effort for him to get at the food, and then he goes back to resting at the bottom on his side. 

I would have thought that if it was swim bladders', he would've either recovered or died because it's been so long. And he isn't eating much. So now I am wondering if it is possible that he has injured his back (maybe during a water change) or if he is just getting old. I've had him for a couple of years already. But he just lies on his side and looks dead and it's scaring me. Any ideas?


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

How old is he?
How big is his tank?
Is it heated?
How often do you clean it?

Small tanks will cause premature death from accumulation of fat on the liver.
Unheated tanks will shorten a betta's lifespan because they need relatively warm tanks.
Unclean water will also do a betta in early.

What does it look like when he goes to the bathroom? White and stringy poop is a sign of internal parasites, as is a bent spine.


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

good questions kelly


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## angel01 (Sep 26, 2009)

I have had him for about 2 years.
He is in a small fish bowl, and it is not heated. 
I change the water about every 2 weeks. 
His poop looks similar to the Bio gold pellets I feed him, just bigger. 

A couple of times I have seen him completely vertical, like he is standing on his tail fin looking up.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

EEEP! No wonder he's having problems! First of all, the average bowl needs to be cleaned every two days to keep toxic waste at a safe level.

Secondly, I'd say the average room temp in vancouver is about 65-68. A betta needs water of 74 at the very least, 80 is optimal. The cold water drastically decreases their lifespan.

You might be able to save him if you purchase a tank of 2 gallons or more with a heater, but if he has been doing this for a month and has been living his whole life in such conditions you may not be able to bring him back from the edge.

In any case, here is a good care sheet to read: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/betta-fish-care/must-read-general-betta-care-faq-20058/


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## dh5daaaccfdd (Nov 11, 2009)

I think he has a broken back.


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## ChristinaRoss (Sep 4, 2009)

ya i agree with kelly..........definately get a bigger tank and a heater, it will definately HELP him.

most people say their average lifespan is 2-3 years, i had one live for almost 6 years! so get the other equipment and you might just save him, hurry!


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## charliehasacola (Oct 29, 2009)

I had a fish with a broken back at one point, and their backs get horribly disfigured, especially if it's been like that for a month and it's swimming around.


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## ChristinaRoss (Sep 4, 2009)

it would be greatly helpful if u can post a pic


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

How would he have broken his back? A bent spine can indicate internal parasites, but a back like charlie described is probably broken. In that case, you will need to euthanise him asap with clove oil or by dropping him in ice water (_not_ putting him in the freezer and letting him gradually freeze!).


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## ChristinaRoss (Sep 4, 2009)

it could be genetic as well

post a pic?


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## charliehasacola (Oct 29, 2009)

I wouldn't exactly give this person tips on euthinization yet. They seem to have given up on this fish, IMO. I'm just worried they'll put it down without reason when there is possible cure.


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## angel01 (Sep 26, 2009)

Ok, I have created a photo album. If you go to my profile, I think you should be able to access it. Pasha just had a bowel movement. I forgot to mention but he doesn't seem to have regular bowel movements, so maybe he is constipated? I took a photo of his poop. It's pretty big. 

I've moved him to my solarium (which is warm because I grow orchids there). It's typically 25C in the daytime. He seems less lethargic. But still, no appetite. And changing his water every 2 days.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

I can't see your photos but if you live in the lower mainland I can donate some of my filter media to you. That way, if you get a larger tank (2.5g-5g) with a filter, the bacteria on a scrap from my filter will start living in your filter and breaking down wastes (aka cycling).


I can also spare a little bit of frozen daphnia for you, or you can pick a pack up at any Mr.Pets for about 5 bucks.


The disfigured spine may be a constipation issue. Does he look like he swallowed a marble by any chance?


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## angel01 (Sep 26, 2009)

Wow, thanks so much for the offer. I guess I would have to look into getting a new aquarium first. Will let you know.

Are you sure you don't see my album? When you go to my profile, the album is in the right margin. He doesn't look like he swallowed a marble, but his poop is the size of a pea.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

Okay i see them now... must have been my computer.

1) Did you see that poop come out of him? Betta pellets look similar when they have been soaking in water for a bit (they are actually made of tightly coiled 'sausage' of food).
2) I am just trying to distinguish... is his spine bent sideways or down?
3) From the pictures he doesn't look bloated but it is concerned that he lays on the bottom. I also get the impresson that he just has a bit of a odd back... I can definitely see that his dorsal fin is se back a little farther than normal.

Again, I am in maple ridge and nurse him back to health in a quarantine if it is close enough to be worth it. If you want to hold off on a tank until boxing day sales, I suggest putting him in a rubbermaid bin/tub. Since most starter kits don't come with heaters in Canada, you can just buy it now separate form the rest of the tank and put it in the tub.


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## angel01 (Sep 26, 2009)

Hi Kelly,
1) I haven't seen the poop actually come out of him, but the thing is that he doesn't have any other poop. I think that's why I've gone so long without changing water in the past is because usually there is no poop coming out with the water I change for him. I think he must be massively constipated.
2) in the photo it was bent sideways

I am downtown without a car, and not sure if the trip out would be worthwhile. I think I will try to ease his pain and do what I can from here, but thanks for the offer. I have added NUTRAFIN CYCLE to the water which is supposed to have these beneficial bacteria.


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## kelly528 (Aug 31, 2009)

I work at Bentall 4. I have a spare planted 5 gallon without anything in it right now... if it's bad, you can drop him off at Burrard Station any weekday at 4.30 and I will take him home and beef him up on some frozne foods.

Or if you need anything, like to borrow a heater or something just ask.


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