# Help! Discovered has ich newbie to fish



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

HELPP SOOOO I JUST FULLY DISCOVERED WHATS WRONG WITH MY RED CROWNTAIL BETA )MALE) he has ich so what do i do now? i'm not sure and i only have limited acess n money  right now i took him outa his 1gallon jar into a tiny cup with fresh water so not that much ich parasites WHAT DO I BUY> WHAT TREATMENT? JUST WHAT DO I DO????i can maybe go to petsmart and i have this lil local pet store SOMEONE PLZ HELP!! TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AND EVERYTHING I'M SERISOUYL ENW AND HAVE NO IDEA!!! HELPPP i really love blazer this is maybe the 3rd ish day but yest i've slightly seen some white but i was tired thought it wasnt much but now he wont do any tricks n such i thaught him n i know for sure hes sick and now ich i have him in a tiny cup right now with a bit of stresscoat NOW WHHATTT???email me plz too [email protected] URGENTZ!! THANK YOU


----------



## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm sorry... I only have one effective cure for ich and it's not something easily found in petstores... actually I'll be in trouble once I run out bc I haven't found it online either. 
This is a good site for info: http://www.bettasrus.net/disease/ick.htm
What I use ia Aquarisol but most lps wont sell it.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Poor guy.. is he showing the white salt-like grains on his body? 

Ick
•Symptoms: Betta has white dots (looks like he was sprinkled with salt) all over his body and head, even eyes. Lethargic, No appetite, Clamped Fins, Might dart and scratching against decor
•Treatment: You can treat Ick either conservatively or with medication. Ick is a parasite. Because ick is contagious, it is preferable to treat the whole tank when one fish is found to have it. Ick is temperature sensitive: Leave your betta in the community tank and raise temperature to 85 F. Then you can choose to treat with salt or medication. Conservative: Add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Perform daily 100% water changes to remove fallen parasites before they can reproduce. Replace the water with the right amount of salt. Do not continue this treatment for more than 14 days. If it fails or you do not want to use salt, treat with Jungle’s Parasite Clear, API Super Ick Cure, or Kordon Rid Ich Plus.

AQ salt is actually pretty cheap - I got the Jungle's AQ salt for less then $3 at Walmart... good luck!


----------



## EverythingNice55 (Jul 26, 2011)

I think what I almost did for this situation is going to my local pet store and asking a worker there the betta's condition... I think that they have a couple of things for it. I think that they had a container of something that you spread on your betta.... I think so.... I suggest going to your local pet store and asking for help. I hope he gets better soon!


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey there Maggie!

Ich isn't that difficult to cure, even though it may seem daunting. If you don't have a heater already, you're going to need to invest in one, because part of curing your fish is keeping them warm to help them get better. Since you have a one gallon, finding a good heater may be difficult, but an aquarium heating pad might do the trick. You'll just need to get a glass thermometer (they're 1 dollar at Walmart) and be sure to keep an eye on the water temperature. It should be somewhere between 76* to 80*, 80 degrees being prefered.

What you're going to want to do is buy Aquarium Salt. This is *not* table salt, but luckily you can get this in the fish section of any petstore or even walmart. 

Since it seems he lives in a one gallon, you can keep him there. However, I would recommend removing any gravel or decor that is in there. Dose the tank with one teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon. I know that you could technically go up to three tsps of salt per gallon, but that is a bit overboard, and 1 tsp can be typically trusted to get the job done. 

Be sure to preform a 100% water change each day, be sure to scrub it down with hot water. After you're done with the 100% water change, be sure to add a tsp of aquarium salt back in. You can do this for 10 days, after that you're going to have to stop using the aquarium salt, and simply do 100% water changes each day until he is better. 

Using this natural method ought to be better for him than medications, in my honest opinion.


----------



## Littlebittyfish (Jan 5, 2011)

I safely treated my whole 29 gallon tank by adding 1 tsp aquarium salt per gallon and over the course of a few days raising the temperature upto 85-86 degrees...Leaving it there for a week or two and doing water changes and gravel vacuuming every couple of days helped.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

k, so today earlier at 9am (pst) ii went to petsmart right when they opened and got to talk to this guy who works there that knows quite a bit about fish "the fish guy" and he gave me a bottle of liquid API Super Ick Cure and the instructions he told me was: first get home and put 1ml of the med into water and after 8-12 hours do a 10% water change the nnext morning a 50% water change (not adding anything else) and the morning after that (so monday) 50% water change again but this time adding 1ml of the med again and repeat that 50% water change in the morning with every other day added 1ml of the meds,he told me since i only have a "bowl" and no filters or anything then i'd be really hardfor my fish to survive...but he said try try it this way so the med doesnt build up since it can be harmful to my fish,and yah imma just try that since its better than nuthin, at least its something to try,cuz if i dont do anything either than blazer wont survive :'( SO FAR HE LOOKS A LIL BIT BETTER ACTUALLY so i put in meds at around 11am and now it's 4;29pm and i htink he's doing slightly better he actually moved around more


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

uh AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO RAISE THE TEMPERATURE right now my heater in my house isn't fully woking room temp is 24 degrees celceus and so the water should be that too....is that ok? cuz i've also been told how heaters mostly only work for 5 gal and up but i dont think i can even getone in time...


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

OOH AND HE HAS ALL THE SYPTOMS OF ICK EXEPT FOR APPETITE LOSS,he's not hyper or anything anymore but he still comps his food in one quick bite just like how he does normally BUT I'M STILL SURE ITS ICK wll is there anything else the "grains" of white could be other than ick?


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

@jkfish i was wondering where can i get those aquarium heating pad its sounds like a super good idea,and i cannt buy anything online thou so yah


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Maggie, your temperature is on the low side, it ought to be 26 degrees celcius. Petsmart does sell the submersible tank heating pads, so that would work.

I'm not completely sure what the employee is saying is correct, but I'm not familiar with that particular med. Read the directions on the bottle and follow as that says, because with medications, if you aren't careful and dose incorrectly, the pathogens will become immune to the meds and come back stronger and harder to cure.

Because he is in a one gallon, you really need to keep up with your water changes. Complete the med treatment, and see if that works. If not, I *highly* suggest you go to the natural method. We know what we're doing here.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

is it safe to all of a sudden stop the med treatment and use he natural treatment like u've said OR use the medicion from petsmart along with the aquarium salt treatment?


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

and i seriosuly have no way to make the water warmer than room temp (21 degrees celceous right now) would that effect him really badly?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Sadly, it does have a negative effect. Bettas are tropical fish and in cold water their immune systems can be severely compromised, meaning they find it very difficult to fight off disease. Water temperature is usually two degrees fahrenheit lower than air temperature, so your water is actually around about 19C, or 67.8F. 

The best and most effective way to kill ich is always by raising the temperature (usually safer than medication). For now, wrap his bowl in towels or a jumper, and make sure it is covered, too. Place it in the warmest part of the house. 
As soon as you can, I would go out and grab a Kritter Keeper or even just a storage tub from a dollar shop. Get one that holds at least 3 gallons, if possible. Also grab a heater from a petshop and leave it for an hour to heat up the water in the new container. Remove him from his bowl and slowly acclimatise him to the new tub. 
This is a cheap way of increasing his living space and hopefully curing the ich.  By raising the temperature, the ich will be killed. If you can get it to 85F/29C for two weeks it will die. 

Until you can do this, don't combine the meds with the salt. Use just one or the other. 
Good luck!


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

*I JUST GOT A HEATER!!! *http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4134008&cp=2767036.2769132 *THE ONE WATT ONE oh and i also put 1 pinch of aqaurium salt,he still has 40% of the original water with *http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3480614 *and the rest is new(er) water *(changed 50% of the water this morning)


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

@BOMBALURINA, uhh wait so now i have this heater thats currently warming my 1.5+gallon bowl up,is what i did still ok? the heater is suposed to keep the water at around 78degrees faraheint or 26 degrees celcues. the water stil have i'd say 40% of original water that has the meds (did water changes as directed from petsmart fish expert) and i added a pinch of aqaurium salt right before adding the heater 30 mins ag. and i'm changing 50% of his water tommrow morning along with adding anoter 1ml of the "super ick cure" medicion.*(AND ALL THE WATER I ADD HAS STRESS COAT IN IT)* do i add any more salt?when? I WAS DIRRECTED TO CHANGE 50% OF HIS WATER DAILY WITH EVERY OTHER DAY ADDING THE MEDICION TOO


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

*TEN WATT* lool not 1*


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It's great that you got a heater! That will make a huge difference to his immune system, and the warmer you can get it, the harder the ich will find it to survive.  Good on you.

The water change schedule sounds good to me, but I'm not experienced with anything under 5 gallons, so definitely wait for some advice from people with smaller tanks.  I would personally just stick to heat and salt, but if you feel confident with the medication, that should work too. 

Good luck!


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey Maggie, how's he doing?

With natural meds, until either the symptoms disappear or the ten days pass, every time you want to remove water, and replace it with fresh water, you have to add the proper ammount of salt.

For example, if you do a 50% water change, mix 1/2 a tsp of aquarium salt into your fresh water, so it is salted. When you do a 100% water change, add 1 tsp of aq salt into your gallon of fresh water. Doing so will keep the water at a constant salinity.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

my heater isnt fully working as its supsoed to on the package BUT IT DOES KEEP A CONSTANT *24 DEGREES CELCEUS* which is warmer..... and as of mostly everytime i check on him hes just still in the top corner of his cubed shape bowl where the heater is. (the heate turns on and off but its still only 24degrees celceus,nuthin higher or lower)


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

so how much salt should i add if my bowl is about 1.5 gallons and i do 50% water changes everyday along with the medicion every other day.(and the fresh water has stress coat in it{1ml} to purify water and to add a bit more good stuff to my fish)


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey maggie, you might want to try and invest in a better heater. While it's better, it's not doing what it needs to do. You might as well return it and use the money to buy a heater that's worth the money you pay for it.

Well, with 1 tsp per gallon, and a 1.5 gallon tank, that means you need to add 1 and 1/2 tsps of aquarium salt to an unsalted tank. Every time you do a 50% water change (which is approximately .75 gallons, you'll need to add approximately 3/4ths a teaspoon to the fresh water).


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

right now my dad made this heater which is actually working and notdangerous to my fish and his temp. is 27 DEGREES CELCEOUS NOW


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

hi so i was wondering if i can use the API's super ick cure medicion along with ur natural aquarium salt method which is : 1teaspoon of aquarium salt for my about 1.5 gallon bowl. with 100% water changes everyday with scrubbing my bowl with hot water before adding the fresh water. and i was also wondering if it's safe to deal with this whole ick thing before his possible case of velvet(you know how betta have this area near the end of his body and here the tail begins that has this colorful scales on it that's different than most of body?well his is blue and his full body is mostly red but when i shine a flashlight all the blue is yellow,like kinda like velvet would that be velvet then?thats the only part thats yellow too)


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Maggie, either stick with one treatment or the other. The natural treatment takes a little, but it works effectively. Treatments work quickly and efficenty, but they can harm your fish. Mixing is never a god idea. oh, and you'll need 1 and a half tsps since the treatment is 1 tsp per gallon. 

As for the velvet, I don't think he has velvet, it might just be irridescence. If you can, take him out into a clear cup for a photo or two (one with flash and one without) and post it up here.

Oh, and when you say your dad *made* a heater, what do you mean? If he actually made one, be sure to keep an eye on the temperatures with your thermometer.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

yah i am keeping a really close eye on it and its working fine, he degisned it to not go over 32 degrees celceous and it frst starts slowley warming up then keeps it at that temp,his job is like with macinery n producing them n such so yah,and yah i dont think he has velvet,nvm about that,so i guess i'd continue with this medical treament for 2 more days,and then switch to ur conservative way if it doesnt work out  


his temp right now if 29 degree celcoues  (constant)
hes hiding a a corner thou with the heater
his pectoral fins wont stop flapping
one of his eye has a bit of red under it,might be bacterial infection? i cannt get a full close look at it,btu when i did at first it looked like his eye was poping in but now it migh be just part of his coloring,the part that hasnt fallen or turned to a peachish color yet

SO HOW MUCH SALT AM I SUPOED TO ADD?like alot of ppl just add tiny ammounts of it just to help with gill function,so how much am i suposed to add daily with the water changes if i'm doing 50% and the tank is about 1.5 gallon


AGAIN THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

right now i'm just adding a pinch


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Just stick to the medication until it's course is complete. no more salt until that medication is done.

After the medication is done, give him a day of just clean water. After that 24 hours of clean water, if he still has ick, put him on 1 tsp/gal dose (1.5 teaspoons dissolved before adding to your tank). If after 5 day he hasn't improved any, up the dose to 2 tsp/gal (3 teaspoons dissolved before adding to your tank).

If he ends up on the aquarium salt treatment, do 100% water changes every day and readd the dissolved dose of aquarium salt.

Once he's healthy, you don't need to do any aquarium salt. It's actually more harm than good to keep it in your tank constantly since it will eventually end up harming your bettas kidneys as well as making treatment with it less effective.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

oh okies thank you


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey there Maggie, your water temp is a bit high. I don't mean to be a nagg, but it 26 degrees C is the sweet spot. Much higher can be as bad for them as much lower.

Once you are done, _if you want to do the salt treatment *add 1.5 tps of salt to your tank.*_ this equates to 1 tsp per gallon. *Be sure to do a 100% water change each day and add 1.5 tsps of aquarium salt to the new fresh water. *After ten days (max), after your 100% water change, stop adding salt. Just keep up with the 100% water changes until he is better. Then you can fall back the the regular one 50% and one 100% water changes a week.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

oh okies thank you ver much, adny dont worry ur not even close to nagging or anything non positive, thank you guys for helping me

THANKY YOU VERY MUCH  without all of ur guy's help, i dont think my beloved blazer would still be....alive..... 

hes still really inactive right now though, so yah maybe i shall switch to the salt treatment on...sunday,yah just trying out the medicion for tommrow again, then clear/fresh water for 24 hours then start the salt treatment


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

*THANK YOU SOO MUCH FOR TELLING ME TO CHANGE THE TEMPERATURE BACK TO 26DEGREES CELCEOUS 3 HOURS LATER BLAZER SWAM AROUND :') IT WAS LIKE A MIRACLE <3* thank you sooooo much

AND THANK YOU SOOO MUCH EVERYONE <3

i will really take extra good care of blazer now,i've totally learned my lesson of not being EVEN MORE observant of my fish when he was acting slightly less active,

*he's finally showing signs of him getting better 

okies so i'll add 1 more ml of the med tommrow and do the treatment for 2-4 more days to make sure the ick is clearly gone*(its like an every OTHER day medicion thing so yah)

*IS THERE ANY THING I HAVE OR CAN ADD TO WATER OR DO TO ENSURE HIS HEALTH??* i do observe him alot and play with im in the morning n right wheni come home from school at around 4 pm and for about half horu to over an hour durring his dinner time.

THIS IS WHAT I DID BEFORE HE WAS SICK i know i have to make adjustments n such so plz correct me and tell me what to add or take out from his daily.weekly routine

~3 pellets in morning 3 pellets at night this is the food
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4368182 
(and probably not that important but his breakfast time is at 7:45-8:15am ish but it might be delayed by and hour or 2 on weekends because i sleep in and dinner time is 9pm something daily)
~i play and "observe" him daily during his breakfast,dinner and when i pass by him i get distracted n play or just stare at him  and by play i mean I've actually taught him some tricks,like when i clap my hands and move my finger in circles he swims in a diving circle like movement.and another trick is when i shake my head he imitates me too and moves his head left and right
~i do 100% water changes every Saturday (I'M PRETTY SURE THIS IS WRONG NOW...SO WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?HOW OFTEN WHAT %? PLEASE TRY TO BE EXACT and go to like down to the very detailed details is possible)
~i add 1ml of API's stress coat to new water.which is about I'd say 1.5 gallons 
here is link to the one I'm referring to and it has more info on it here in case u don't know much about it:
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10850829
~the bowl/plastic cubed shape jar is about 1.5 gallon. heres are the dimension of his cube: *17cm x 19 cm* AND THAT'S THE WATER PART the part that i usually fill up his tank by
~and before (he got sick last Saturday) he only has a leaf hammock in his tank/container,that was absolutely it....
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4055997
by the way,yes i know how people have cases of it's metal stem/rod rusting, I stopped using it last week when i saw it was getting brown,but about 3 days ago i email the company making it and they told me they had made new ones that has something added to the leaf that doesn't rust, and they're sending me a new one....eventually ~OH AND no heater or anything,the hammock was literally it, *BUT NOW* there's a good homemade heater that's designed to be 27 degrees celceous (my dad knows his machinery and stuff so its safe) and it has no like pointy,sharp,edgy of anything like that that can harm my Betta's fins and bodyAND THAT'S BASICLY IT,MY WHOLE "PET FISH LIFE STORY"and I've gotten him on Monday September 5th,2011 (Labour Day)

*~SO WHAT SHOULD I NORMALLY ADD TO HIS WATER DURRING WATER CHANGES?
~HOW OFTEN OF WATER CHANGES AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WATER CHANGE FOR MY SIZE OF TANK? *(dimensions again are 17cm by18/19 cm*)can someone please also tell me if that'd be 1.5 gallon?more? less?
~what should i do if he's less active again?even the slightest bit less active? because i can tell pretty easily.and i do really take my time "observing him" and spend quite a bit of time with him daily*and the time spent is slit all throughout the day,when i wake up,after school,and my blazer's dinner time
~*what should i do if there's also other changes that i notice about him?* by that i mean maybe some spots or something appearing on him.it might be an early sign of some illness or it could be natural but i want to be safe and know more of exactly what going on so the illness won't effect him that badly if I'd catch it earlier and treat him earlier

*AND PLEASE ADD ANYTHING ELSE THAT I SHOULD KNOW 
** AGAIN THANK YOU SOO MUCH!!!!
*


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

OH AND ONE MORE QUESTION THATS BEEN BOTHERING ME FOR LIKE OVER A MONTH.one of his eyes just one, has this like glare. i'm not sure if thats the word for it,my vocab honestly isn't that big. but like you know how in pictures your eyes may looks red or something because of lighting? and also like in cat's eyes how they glare red or something. one of my fish's eye is like that too,like when hes from some angle with the light,there just that creepy red glare coming from his eye. do you know what i'm trying to explain? 
I'M SORRY IF I'M CONFUSING YOU,MAIN POINT: *ONE OF MY FISH'S EYE HAS THIS RED "GLARE"*(when the light is from like a specific angle or something u see it)similar to a cat's red eye glare


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

For anything bigger than a half gallon, but smaller than a 5 gallon, you should probably do 1 50% and 1 100% change weekly.

As far as what to add, just use your regular water conditioner and make sure the temperature is similar to what your betta's container water is. You don't want a giant temperature difference because that could send him into shock and make things worse.

If you notice any other strange things or his behavior being off, then up the water changes a little during the week. For the most part, if caught early enough, clean water will take care of most anything.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/71732d1137463464/wrinkles_redeye.jpg
its pretty much like the cat's red eye glare especially like the eye on the left,the one thats more red


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

so when you say do one 50% and 100% so can u please give me an example
like so if i do a 100% water change every saturday what day of the week do i do the 50% water change? (sorry for asking so many questions, i just want to make sure I'm doing the best i can on the "owner" part)


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

If you plan on doing 100% on saturdays, maybe try doing a 50% on wednesday since it's the middle of the week.

The two changes are to keep the ammonia down while keeping the water not too clean (You still want a healthy immune response, which is hampered by water that's cleaned too often).


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

okies,alrighty then, and one more question,so how long should i leave the tap water in the container i store it in to de-chlorinate,24 hours before i put it into tank?(cuz i also add stress coat to it right before water's added to tank,does it matter if i let it declorinate for like 2 days?would that make the water even better/worse or effect it in any way?)
oh and is it safe to just get tap water and add stress coat to it and dump it into tank with fish right away?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

If you aren't using it as a water conditioner (to take out heavy metals and chlorine), then definitely have it sit out fora day or two in advance.


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hey Maggie~

Pataflafla has you covered~

Aging your water (letting it sit for a day before using a dechlorinator) is good but not necessary, especially since you're using stress coat to dechlorinate. 

I took a look at your food, and next time you stop by a petstore (if possible) you might want to switch it out. Bettas require a minimum of 40% protein in their food, and it's good to have the first two or three ingredients in the pellets as some form of protien (fish, shrimp, fish meal, etc). The brand you have is a little under par. I'd recommend either Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets, or the top fin color enhancing betta bits.

If you notice him acting really off at all (extremely sluggish, not moving, not eating, etc), it's always a good idea to do a 50% water change, just to see if a cleaner tank will help him. However, one 50% and one 100% water changes a week ought to keep him in good shape. For the most part, don't stress. He's on his way to recovery, and you're learning how to keep him healthy. From the sound of things, he's got an awesome tank and home with you. Betta's are hardy fish, and he'll thrive under your care.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

okies thanks  hmm so 50% water change if all of a sudden he starts bashing himself around too? (and its not from shock of all of a sudden lights on/off) cause thats what i'm most worried about,earlier before i had figured out he has ick,he was randomly bashing himself around,like hard enough i could hear the noise.and earlier ike an hour ago he did that again twice when i was sitting next to him reading. what should i do about that?is that also from the ick? i'm pretty sure its almost all gone,and even durring hte week when he has a pretty serisou case of ick,he was more sluggish and "dead acting" not bashing himself around.is it possible that now he has moer energy and still has ick,he's now bashing himself again? i'm doing a 100% water change tommrow instead of the 50% that i've been doing daily for a week now,and adding tee medicion 1 more time. then what should i do? i think theres still the slightest bit of white "dots" still on him,shoudl i continue the medicion?move onto the salt treatment?or what? 
OOH BTW HIS TEMP IS 25 DEGREES CELCOEUS ALL THE TIME NOW


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Finish up the meds and see if there is anything left of the ick. Do a 100% after the medication is complete to get everything out as best as you can.

If, by the end of the medication, he still has ick, then give him 1 full day of clean water. After that day, start him in 1 tsp/gal aquarium salt (Dissolve 1.5 tsp before adding to your tank) and do 100% daily water changes. Continue the salt treatment for 2 days after the ick has disappeared or for a maximum of 10 days.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

okies,oh and btw stress coat is a fish/water condishioner,and i heard theres a big difference between conditioner and dechlorinater(and can u plz explain that whole concept and difference to me please)

so is it still at least 24 hours if i only add stress coat(1ml of it for 4 liters,and i have 2 of the 4liter containers to actually fill up my tank when i do 100% changes,so i just dump out the extra water which is around 1.5-2 liters because my tank only needs 1 and a half of the 4 liter container's water)?

is it dangerous to have the water just sit there for about 10 hours (not 24 or so) if i'm just adding stress coat? because i know if its decholrinator then that makes the water instantly safe for fish. but for stress coat,which is water and fish conditioner i'm not sure how fast,and effective it's going to clean the water. 

btw on the bottle it says 5ml/10gallon to clean water and 10ml/10gallon to help boost fish's regrowth of tissues and such,and since i'm already adding 2ml of stress coat to 8liters(and i think 3.8 something liters=a u.s. gallon) and dumping out 1.5 litres of it since theres extra water and all of the 8 liters wont fit i the tank my fish is in,would that be safe enough?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm not sure on the specifics of stress coat since I've never used it as a water conditioner.

I use Tatra Aquasafe. It's cheaper and removes chlorine and heavy metals (Both of which can severely hurt your fish over time).

Chlorine will evaporate from the water if left out long enough. I don't know what happens to the heavy metals, but I believe there are soem components of stress coat that binds to it and makes it less harmful.


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

StressCoat is both a dechlorinator and a conditioner. If you look on the front, in the orange box that says _The Healing Power of Aloe Vera,_ you'll see towards the bottom it says "_removes chlorine, chloramines & ammonia in tap water"_ . Seeing as it does so, you could add it right to the new water and then add it to the tank. Aging water is meant to remove some of the chlorine and chloramines, but the stress coat is doing that right away once you add it and swirl.

IMO, you don't need to dose that much, you pretty much only need it to remove the chlorine and chloramines. In the directions, it says to remove chlorine and chloramines that you need to add 5 ml (1 tsp) per ten gallons. That'd be about 1 ml for 2 gallons. Seeing as your tank is just under 2 gallons, 1 ml is just right.

during your water changes, what you are doing is fine, which is dumping out the excess water. It's probably easiest that way seeing as Stress Coat can be a bit hard to dose with.

If he's bashing himself against the tank, it could be him trying to itch the ich off. Finish up your medicine first, wait a day or so, and then go to the salt treatment if you need.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

well actually nowadays i add more like .75 ml to a gallon. that ammount is over .50ml which cleans water and the extra .25ml should help with some of the whole fish conditioner part,like helping with his slime coat and such,so yah that should be good  good to know i did at least 1 thing absolutely right hahaha

OKIES THANK FOR ALL OF YOUR GUYS HELP <3

i'll post here again if theres something else happens thanks again =)

ooh and btw today,he hasn't bashed himself at all, and i've already spent around 3 hours i'd say literally next to him hahha,yay! he's more himself now, i'd say almost fully now

soo if i'm not 100% sure if all the ick is gone,should i still do like 2 days of the salt treatment?just to make sure? and tommrow's the last 50% water change(end of medical treaatment).so after that on tuesday i'll do a 100% water change and on wednesday i'd start the treatment if nessarary?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Give him a day of clean water so you can inspect him after the medication has run its course.

Watch him very closely for a few days after the medication to make sure no more ick develops, but generally the medication is more effective in getting rid of it quickly and keeping it away.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

should i do the medicion for one more day then? cuz i'm not even sure about how long the treatment is,the bottle just says this:

For best results, remove activated carbon and continue aeration. Add one teaspoonful (5 ml) for every 5 U.S. gallons (19L) of aquarium water. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours, then change 25% of the water and add new activated carbon. Treatment may be repeated if necessary. Raising the water temperature to 82° F (28° C) speeds up the life cycle of the parasite and may hasten the treatment process.

so yah..... i dunno if i should conitnue for 1 more f those every other day treatments before using clear wwater,cuz yesterday he was still darting a few times


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Treat for one more day, then 24 hours of clean water and close surveillance.

If, after those 24 hours, he is still darting and has visible ick, then start on 1 tsp/gal aquarium salt and 100% daily water changes.


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Hmm, Maggie, he's been on that med for more than 2 days, right? If so, I'd stop using it and just keep an eye on him. If you want, just do a 100% water change every day for a few days (be sure to scrub all the decor down in the hot water - no soap). This'll help get rid of any possible ich that might be living in the bottom of your tank, and it'll give you time to watch out for any new ich developments.

After that, if he's clear and healthy, just stick to your one 50% and one 100% water changes a week.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

thank you  an yup,its been 9 days of medicion every other day,i'll do 100% water changes then  so no aquarium salt in his water at all right?(like really small ammounts for normally)cuz it'd do more harm than good?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Unless you're treating for an outwards illness, no aquarium salt. Not even a tiny bit.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

uhhh i dont fulyy remember why i did this,but anywho i just finnished 1 week of daily full water changes and the water was just clean water with some stress coat,and now he doesnt show any sign of ick so imma just do a 100% change tommrow then a 50% on wednesday and another on saturday (100%) and it keeps going on like that


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

btw i think my dad's friend is giving me a 5 gallon tank with some filters and such,can you guys also help me with setting it up and maintenaince stuff and just instruction on how to take care of fish then in his new home? i've just finally learned how to take care of him in this 1.5 gallon bowl,and now i need help with this taotallly new habitat too, 

i dont have anything yet but ocne i do i'd tell u guys what is included in the kit or wtev it is and hope u guys'll help me with that tooo

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH AGAIN <3 blazer's even FULLY flaring alot now when i sit next to him hahah and all hypered up again


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

siigggghhhh 

UPDATE

blazer has ick again....it's not as serisous as last time, i just caught it, have the medicion,started the medical treatment again.....

so just wondering but what did i do wrong? 
his temp is constant 26 degrees celceos, 
i do 50% water change on weds. 
100% water changes on saturdays
water has stress coat, i add it even thou i do put the water in a container for over 24 hours
i try my best not to stress him out
i dont even have music on in my room,i usually blast music but i've unplugged my music player ever since i got my fish so theres no sound vibrations in his water
when doing water changes 100% i put a plastic cup in his water he swims in it i take the cup out then do all the cleanign n readding water then i drain most of water out in the cup n pour him into newly cleaned bowl
when doing 50% water changes i use another cup to scoop out 50% of water and i just use another cup n scoop some clean water from my clean water container and pour it in nicly trying not to create much a current or anything when the water goes into his bowl cuz blazer's still in there

SO HE SHOULD BE FINE RIGHT????LIKE NOW I KNOW HOW TO CURE ICK,I'VE DONE IT BEFORE...ITS ONLY A LIL BIT OF ICK AT THE MOMENT...... HE'LL BE PERFECTLY FINE AGAIN REALLY SOON???

he's like flaring ish and does these spins i thaught him,and still follows me around,slightly and i do mean ONLY SLIGHTLY less active,not like super speed swimming like normally when i play hide n seek or "follow" where my head is loool

and he looks like hes slightly constipated...last time right when i realized he had ich he had a big tummy too....
this time its slightly big too
i will switch out food to that boufet pellet kind soon,i'm waiting for my petsmart to restock that
do u think this food problem might be the cause of him having ick?or is his tummy getting big n constipated like both times when i realized his ick just a cioncidence?


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Ich is so widespread that many experts feel that it is present in the environment of most aquariums. In fact, just about every aquarium fish will come into contact with this protozoan at several times in its life (I believe bettas may have less chances, since other then the first few weeks of life, they are solo for the most part- as well as most bettas aren't in a community tank- but this is just to explain just how common it is. Unfortunately, it's pretty much responsible for more fish deaths in aquariums then any other disease). Because it is so widespread, most fish have developed a good immune response against the disease to allow them to fight off the protozoan infection before it ever causes any symptoms. Captive fish that develop ich usually get the disease when their immune systems are not functioning as well as they should be because of stress. We know that stress lowers the immune response and when fish are stressed that is when ich is most prevalent. You're guy may have a lowered immune system due to possibly diet, or even genetics (sadly, there are so many mass breeders that the large pet stores ship from, you just don't know how strong the genetics are when you buy them). He may even be overly prone to stressing more then the typical fish (some fish, just as other animals, including us, can be nervous by nature), so that even the water changes are too much.

As far as the tummy thing- how much/often are you feeding? Ich doesn't affect the internal digestive system normally.. keep an eye for his waste, see if it's normal brown or if it's white. He may have an ailment that is the underlying problem of his ich- that is causing him to stress out. Bettas should have a naturally, small rounded belly- nothing extreme, but just a slight roundness to them. It will also expand after feeding.
Is there a way to get a picture of him?


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

2 pellets in the morning (8 am) and 2 pellets at night(8-9/10pm around those times) and the pellets are http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4368182 

and as for picture...ill try to take a picture....my fish doesnt like the big light on thou in my room,especially now thats hes sick, and i have to turn that on for my camera to take a clear picture, i'll see what i can do


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

HERES THE PIC OF HIM THAT I TOOK YESTERDAY
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/sickblazer.jpg/


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

and him when hes healthy......
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/blazerflaring.jpg/


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

and um u asked about his waste and how it looks like, i took a pic of that too.... here 
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/blazerspoop.jpg/

btw its usually really not even that big at all, i think this was from when he finally unclogged ish his tummy/digestive system,usually its like a pellet size or half the pellet size,this loolks like at least 3 ish pellet's size i think


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hmm. I've got to be honest, I don't see the ich on Blazer. I do see the belly trouble but I don't see ich. Myates, what do you think? I'm thinking 1-2 tsps epsom salt per gallon for the bloat for sure.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

It looks like he just paled up from being constipated.

I've got a red crowntail that has the same white dots pattern on his sides when he gets pale, so it might be something to do with color layers and iridescence.

Fast him for a day or two, and if he's still bloated afterwards, start him on 1 tsp/gal epsom salt and 100% daily changes (Redosing the salt, of course).

Epsom salt should be easy to find at grocery stores and pharmacies since it is used as a laxative for people. It should also be relatively cheap.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

when i look at a angle i see lots of lil white dots that looked like ick from last time,its like on his lower fins and those 2 long ones that i see alot of, in the pic his fins r clampeded so u cannt see it,the one where hes flaring is from last week i think when he was fully healthy 

SOOOO ABOUT HIS TUMMY.... no food until saturday night.if he's still having a big tummy then 1.25 teaspoon of aquarium salt (which i now have =) ) along wiht daily 100% changes daily UNTIL ITS GONE?(the bloatedness)

AND HE IS DARTING AND EVERYTHING so im pretty sure he does have ich(he's flasking i think it was called?) i can show u a vid i took 2 days ago,i guess ill post it on youtube when i get home (1-2 hour(s))


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

ooohhh epson salt,not aquairum salt? (if 2 days after fasting n hes still bloated)


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

and guys what do u think about this,RoyalBlueDarling suggested it and pmed msg me this idea:
heres what they basicly said:

nv do 100% changes it stresses fish out too much,along with messes up water or something
INSTEAD EVERYDAY: do a 1 cup water change (remove 1 cup,add a cup of fresh [conitioned and decholrinated water] back
AND ONCE A WEEK: 50% water change,so in my case 50% water change every saturday

whatcha guys think about that?????

AND BTW should i like rinse everything once in awhile?like iunno once a month or something


ANNNNDDDDDDD I NOW HAVE 5 GALLON TANK WITH FILTERS AND EVERYTHING THAT MY DAD'S FRIEND GAVE ME (USED) can u plz teach me how i should use it and how maintenance and all that works

(right now my water changes r normally 50% change on weds 100% on sat)

but now cuz of ick,its the same med treatment a before,50% daily,with meds added every other day


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

100% water changes while on salts is a good idea. Even if it's stressful, it's less if you were to accidentally overdose and cause more issues.

If your guy gets stressed out too much by them, then just add in two more 50% changes weekly (I do four 50% weekly changes for Ratchet since his fins are still messed up from tail biting and because he'll bite himself if he's cupped at all).

Give him until Sunday morning before starting any epsom salt (Just saying morning so you can make sure he doesn't react adversely to the epsom).


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

can i treat his bloating with the epsom salt ALONG with the ick medicion? (IF it does come to me having to use the epsom salt for his bloat cuz the fasting didnt work) he's also finally pooped again =) its like brown,long n stringy-ish shape,thats a sign of constipation right?( ithink i read about that somewhere in a random thread)

and i can just buy epsom salt at shoppers drug mart right? is there a special kind?or kind to avoid?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I think you could safely use epsom salt combined with ich medication. Keep a close eye on him for any signs of stress. If he gets paler or more lethargic, then immediately stop one of the treatments.

Epsom salt (No added colors or scents) can be found a a pharmacy, Walmart (If available to you), and grocery stores for sure. It's cheap and should last youa relatively long time if you're only using it for fish.

I got a half-full box (1 pound of salt) and it's lasted me a month already and isn't that much down passed half.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

heres the video of him not really hitting himself but similiar to that most likey cuz of his ich
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6480609223/in/photostreamhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6480609223/in/photostream

heres another vid of him,and u can see hes itchy,like there's rubbing himself in the corner there,this was taken 2 days ago,quite often when he woke up from his lil naps this is what happened,its stopped for now,like i havent seen it today at all...... but theres still white dots/spot on him
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6480648143/in/photostream


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

That is unusual behavior. Has his poop been getting lighter and lighter over the past few days?

Usually darting like that is seen with an internal parasite. It's common to dart with external parasites as well, so keepa close eye and continue the ick treatment just in case it might be that again.

You'll be able to see if his poop is normal or not after starting the epsom salt. In most cases that I've experienced the betta usually ends up pooping within hours of being placed in the epsom salt water.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

so do i still do the fasting until sunday morning or use epsom salt asap?
and yah i do physically see some ick,before i saw the white dots he wasnt weird at all,so im hoping along with thinking that its most likely only ick n bloatedness thats wrong with im

and poop's color is pretty much same,but now,poops less frequently (of course cuz hes bloated) and when he does finally poop (today 2 big pieces) it is clumped and/or stringy ish instead of more pellet shaped,tiny n round ish shaped

and his behavior nowadays is either just like him totally leaning on that metal rod heater and thats it,or in a corner just there laying right now,sometimes looks like slightly gasping for air,and as in 2nd vid,he's still then all of sudden and when he wakes up from his nap to get air he might get a bit darty half the times

imma go do the daily 50% change now..... ( btw should i tkae the poop out of his bowl?ones on his leaf whic i can reach easy,i dont hafta scoop it from bottom or anything making a current,so that'll take out or stop it from causing more ammonia?)

and also,can u just teach me how to treat internal parasites too?just in case n such,its good to at least know so im more prepared.... thanks =)


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

It is best to remove poop as soon as you can since it decaying does allow for more ammonia to be created. I've found that a small airline tube works well for getting most of the poop out like a vacuum.

for internal parasites, you'll want a medication for a quicker cure, or you could go with the natural garlic method (Garlic has natural anti-parasitic properties).

For medications I suggest Jungle anti-Parasite fizzes (1 tab per 10 gallons) or API General Cure (1 packet per 10 gallons). For that, it's just following instructions on the box.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

can u teach and explain the natural garlic method to me please =)


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm actually very hazy on it.

You could pm Oldfishlady and ask her about the natural garlic method she uses. I know she talked about it a little bit with me when I was having parasite issues with Frog. I'm still unclear as to whether it's everything soaked in garlic juice or actually feeding small chunks of garlic. I do however know that it takes more time to clear the issue than a medication.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

uhh so i got new healthier food for him, i started fasting his on thrudays night,now its sunday morning 1;14am for me,i feed him now?i think hes not bloated anymore,but still super weak and no energy and just in a corner laying "splat down i'd say,(not literally lool)but just like putting his weight down almost fully onto the bottom of his bowl

and i have epsom salt 100% natural no scents/color

so how should i do this? i still have 30% water changes daily (not 50% anymore, some fish person at petsmart told me thats most likey too stressful for my fish since he's already really weak)with medicion every other day
and ur epsom salt method is 1 tsp per gallon,since mine is 1.5 ish id still only put in 1 tsp and then 100% water change?wont this effect my medicion treatment?

and id say blazer pretty weak and not in a good condition for 100% water change......... so what should i do?wait til he perks up a bit more before doing the 100% change to clear up some random ick in the bowl?

its just that the epsom salt treament's water changes n everything dont go well with my ick medicion treatment...so iunno what to do,or maybe i shouldn't do the epson treament...he pooped a bit more today..... maybe its not safe for him to not eat while hes so weak for such a long time,i'll just give him 1 pellt tonight (1am) and 1 more in morning n then yah.....seee what u say/think about that


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I think you could stop the ick medication to be honest. I didn't see anything looking like ick in your most recent pictures, and medications do tend to be rough on any fish.

You can safely feed him now that he's had time to let everything run through him.

For taking him off the medication, just slowly wean him off my doing your 30% daily and just don't redose the medication. See if that helps him out any. Which brand of ick medication are you using by the way? I'm sure there must be directions for it somewhere.

Hold off on the epsom salt until most/all of the medication is out of the water and watch him closely for more signs of constipation or slow bowels.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

right now theres clearly aot of ick now, in the picture,it was only a teeny bit where it was just some white dots on his lower fins but now its on his heaf fins n everywhere

the medicion is api's super ick cure (same as last time)

and i just put the epsom salt in...... i thought that i'll leave it in for 10=12 hours then do a 100% water change to clear out the salt and also redosethe medicion since tonight's one of the every others days to redose medicion

and slow bowels?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Slow digestive tract. Like if you were to eat, and then not go to the bathroom for a few days. Normally humans are supposed to go every day, same as bettas (Or at least mine do).

Here are the instructions for the medication you're using:
*For best results, remove activated carbon and continue aeration. Add one teaspoonful (5 ml) for every 5 U.S. gallons (19L) of aquarium water. Repeat dose after 48 hours. Wait another 48 hours, then change 25% of the water and add new activated carbon. Treatment may be repeated if necessary. Raising the water temperature to 82ºF (28ºC) speeds up the life cycle of the parasite and may hasten the treatment process.*

From this site: http://aquariumpharm.com/products/TechSheet.aspx?TechSheetID=31

So it looks like you're supposed to 
1. Dose the tank
2. Wait 48 hours (2 days) and then repeat dose
3. Wait 48 hours (2 more days) and then do a 25% change

With the schedule you're on (If I'm reading correctly), you might be overdosing him, which could very well lead to his lethargy.


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

the person who told me about 30% changes n every other day i add medicion told me that his instruction differs because of how my bowl doesnt have a filter and he's worried about the medicion building up and being to harmful for blazer

SO WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW?

on friday was the last time i've added 1ml of the medicion,and sicne then there has been a 40% water change and now 1tsp of epsom salt has been added to his water.(i didnt do his 30-40% water change today yet)

and also today,and right now he's still leaning n putting his body weight on the heater,but hes still flapping his pectoral fin,and only the one thats not leaning on the heater


----------



## maggie9059789 (Nov 5, 2011)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm#Metal
http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm#Medication%20Poisoning

i think its those 2........ so 100% water change and i'll try to use a 50 watt heater turned down to maybe lowest,i'm testing it right now, to heat the water(a real heater from petcetera? i think it was)
and should i totally stop with the medicion?use the nutaral aquarium salt method?

so the natural salt treatment for ick:_*"add 1.5 tps of salt to your tank.*_ this equates to 1 tsp per gallon. *Be sure to do a 100% water change each day and add 1.5 tsps of aquarium salt to the new fresh water. *After ten days (max), after your 100% water change, stop adding salt. Just keep up with the 100% water changes until he is better. Then you can fall back the the regular one 50% and one 100% water changes a week. " AND WHAT TEMPERATURE SHOULD WATER BE KEPT AT?normally when hes healthy its 25-26degrees celceous,should it be higher to treat n make the cycle of ick faster?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Stop all medication for now. Let him have a break from it and recover.

Your father's homemade heater might be leaching some metals into the tank if there's uncovered metal on it. Try and get that sealed one up and running as soon as you can.

As far as directions for the medication and the 30% changes, who was it that told you? If it's advice from a pet store, it's most likely going to be a little off. It's always best to follow the instructions listed by the medication or the creators of the medication. From now on, any medication you might use, follow the directions listed on the back of the bottle/box or from the manufacturer site.

Temperature that the life cycle of ick is sped up at is around 82 degrees Fahrenheit. 

Once he is back on the medication after 2 days of clean water follow the directions to a "T", and when it comes time for a water change, make sure you get as much debris as you can from the bottom.


----------

