# Need help with ID. Never seen a betta like this.



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Any ideas? I saw her mixed in with 20 others. Hard to make out the color in the store because of the blue water, but I couldn't pass it up. She was $1, but with the discount from taking the online survey = $0.


http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/247/20120710.jpg


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## dbooknook (May 12, 2012)

Can you post a pic?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

free betta?? Post a pic!


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Sorry about that.*

That was my first post. Should be corrected now. Let me know what you all think. I was going to exchange her for another one. There was a white betta mixed into that shipment but it's definitely gone by now.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Someone can come correct me but that hump on her back is a bad deformity. DOes it affect her swimming??


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

That's what I thought as well. it was some sort of bad gene from breeding. It doesn't seem to effect it's swimming, I took the lid off and to check out the spine. Seemed a little off, but it's relatively uniform. The rest of the bettas were pink/colorless, so I chose this one & 2 others. I had a $3 off any purchase of $3 or more. I got 3 bettas for free. I need them to eat the bugs in the garden.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

it looks like a spade tail but with a nip or two out of it. She's very pretty, too bad about the deformity on her back though. It doesn't affect her swimming does it?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

She has a messed up spine


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*These are the 3 bettas I chose.*


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

pretty! I love the mustard gas girl


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Be careful with bugs from the garden! With so many people spraying with pesticides it's best to buy or culture your own to ensure their safety.
That's not to say avoid it at all costs. I never had a problem with feeding fruit flies I found in my home, but I know they haven't come in from outside. Frozen bloodworms, daphnia and tubifex worms are okay. 
Live cultured worms are best.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

So would you guys keep the genetically challenged one? 

When I asked about the fish's weird appearance, I was informed it's, "Because it's young." 

I didn't believe her answer, suspected it was some sort of deformity but decided to take a chance. I was going to get them for free anyway. The survey took a couple minutes to fill out. 

The only thing that sort of bothered me was the fish were way too cheap. $1 each and the sale on female betta ends I think July 22?

I grow most of my plants in organic soil and I have a lot of culinary herbs that repel most insects. The insects that dare to mess with my plants get swatted and fed to the fish. I know the risks associated with the pesticides but I think it's worth the risk. I get rid of a pest insect and they get a fantastic snack whenever I go out to the garden.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

If she swims fine and eats fin I would give her a good home. Anyone else will just kill her off.


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## FrostSinth (Apr 26, 2012)

I have two girls with the first girl's color, I've always been curious about their color, I guess its some sort of butterfly pattern.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I think it's just called bi-color. But yes, keep her! Like Ivandert said, someone else might just kill her off :/


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*So if you were going to buy a betta & you saw*

The one I have pictured, would you have taken it back home? 

The rest had very basic to no coloration whatsoever. 

Even with the little hump, it swims fine. She seems to prefer no plants in the water though.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I would bc I know her fate in the store would be death.


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## dbooknook (May 12, 2012)

Definitely! I mean I wouldn't breed her, but just as a pet. I have a guppy with an interesting tail.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Thanks to everyone that took the time to respond.*

I guess I will keep her. If she gets harassed by the other girls I'll put her in with the guppies. 

Later on if I have time, I'll put her in with the halfmoon to see what he thinks. I can't get her to flare her dorsal fin for longer than a 1-2 seconds. 

I would like to get a couple good pictures of her before I start the sorority tank introductions. 

I think girls look better when they don't have chunks of hair ripped out of their heads from fighting.

If it wasn't for her colorful fins, I would have left her behind for someone else to take her. 

I've seen some really deformed bettas in the stores, but because of the blue water I was conflicted because I couldn't make out the color, but observing from the top the spine wasn't too misaligned. 

I'm just glad she's behaving like most of my bettas, very healthy appetite and likes to torment the snails. 

Glad I got the $3 off $3 order otherwise I wouldn't have lucked out with the mustard gas colored female & little red one with red eyes and blue eyeshadow.


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## PaintingPintos (Dec 27, 2011)

WOW you got a good deal!
What beautiful fish! I especially like the red one, very pretty.
It's a shame that one has the deformity, though. But it won't affect a wonderful personality


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

That MG looks like a boy to me...not sure but it looks like the tail is still growing, can you see where the caudal is clear on the ends?

The first pic is a spadetail female, she carries a pretty nasty (painful) looking deformity!

The other female (certain female I mean) looks to be a common veiltail, with a hint of spade in her tail...not sure if that makes much sense...

I would keep the one with the deformity, with you she can have a chance of a happy life, others would immediately euthanise (anybody on here would only do it if it was necessary)

There may come a time when the deformity may become too much for her, at which point you may have to euthanise her, but there is also the chance that may never happen 

Good luck with them all!!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Frst I'd have to say that your pictures are very nicely taken unlike many blurry ones I've seen.

Well the first female you posted that is A steel blue and red wash bicolor VT(VeilTail) Spadetails are just a different looking shape of VTs.

The Female with a brighter red color but some blue on her body is also a blue and red bicolor VT female. She is also very nice.

The last one is my favorite. The dark bodied yellow female is a MG(Mustard Gas) female VT female.



MSG said:


>


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## Purple (Jun 25, 2012)

Just as long as you _never_ breed her and are prepared for health issues down the road, I think you should keep her. She looks like a fish that should have been culled. The pet store stocking staff probably hadn't kept a close enough eye on the fry, wanted to get as much money out of the spawn as possible, or they knew too little about genetics not to breed her parents, whatever they were. I'm glad that she has a loving home with someone who will care for her if she does get sick, instead of just sitting in a cup without any attention.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

The mustard gas is not! Thai breeders call that a yellow gold.
The colour of little hump girl is usually described by Thai breeders as devil...like a black devil...
They have a couple of other interesting names for colours but that black w/red is a great combo...if its more blue, then you have a blue devil, or as I suspect, a steel blue devil.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

The red is just red with blue wash, which is undesirable for breeding purposes (and showing) but I always thought it made a prettier fish!
Your fishy finds are beautiful regardless of hump and colour names!


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Thanks again for the new responses*

Mustard gas/yellow gold, both sound fine to me. I just love her color, she has a couple streaks of red. 

I chose each one of these bettas because I like their natural coloration. I don't plan on competing them in shows. As you can tell by the bettas I've chosen, I like the colorful ones. 

I went into the store for guppies, but since they didn't have any that caught my eye, & they just happened to stumble upon a brand new sale on betta females I picked out 3 bettas instead. They were the same price as the guppies. 

I ended up getting all 8 female bettas in those photos for a grand total of $5.

I just hope they get along when I introduce them.

Still trying to decide the layout/design of their tank & which tank to use.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Just checked, the yellow gold betta is definitely a girl. It has a ovipositor. She's not going to get any more food for 2 days. Noticed her ber belly's grown quite large.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Based on the fins of the steel devil, someone definitely would have purchased her. Out of the 30 bettas, 2 dozen of them were the marble/pink/white/color spot varieties which don't interest me. 

Those bettas remind me of these things. 








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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Purple - the petstore initials are PS = They don't raise the bettas. They're ordered from a breeder. The staff I think are only taught to discard the ones that are dead. Out of the 200 cups I've looked through, I found only about 2 are severely deformed & I'm pretty sure that was a PTC store. My little devil had a hump, but spine wasn't the WORST I've seen. Her long fins are the longest I've seen on a female. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong if any of you all are more familiar with the store policies.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Actually the Thai have the wrong names. They are correctly called what I said. The Thai make up names and some seem to stick, but that doesnt mean they are correct.

Just like they call the true "Grizzle" betta a "Monster". According to the IBC, this is not correct and making up names doesnt mean they are the correct names or coloration. Also no offense, but we are not Thai.

Lastly, if you think about it, NO ONE really has a REAL MG according to this article:

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1256



ravenwinds said:


> The mustard gas is not! Thai breeders call that a yellow gold.
> The colour of little hump girl is usually described by Thai breeders as devil...like a black devil...
> They have a couple of other interesting names for colours but that black w/red is a great combo...if its more blue, then you have a blue devil, or as I suspect, a steel blue devil.


MSG, the yellow and black female is a Mustard Gas and usually these names are mixed up as such was demonstrated. If you feel the need to know the correct info, there is always research that can be done.

You have great fish and got them for a pretty good deal. I'm glad you have the deformed one. She seems to be fine. I dont think she will have any problems, but you can never be too sure. Just keep an eye on her.



MSG said:


> Mustard gas/yellow gold, both sound fine to me. I just love her color, she has a couple streaks of red.
> 
> I chose each one of these bettas because I like their natural coloration. I don't plan on competing them in shows. As you can tell by the bettas I've chosen, I like the colorful ones.
> 
> ...


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

I apologize, I did not notice that the yellow had black, I thought she is all yellow fins gold body, therefore yellow/gold which is also what I have seen Chard call it...I would not have debated the name MG if I had seen the black, although, since I too read that bettysplendens article, I don't call anything MG unless it has that colour of mustard yellow fins and a greenish grey body...to me all others are simply : Bicolor...so MSG has a yellow/black bicolor.

And I am aware we are not Thai.
I am also aware that a lot of the time names are just made up, whether in Thailand or elsewhere...but the corrections I previously made were color names that have appeared rather universally across aquabid and elsewhere. 

I do stand by my previous thoughts on the steel blue devil and on my honest belief that many people on this forum tend to see mustard yellow and they scream "mustard gas" which is not always correct.
MSG: sorry about confusion...actually it is a lot like confusion regarding name colors around world ....also, you have some beautiful girls there for your sorority and I truly hope they all get along(they should be just fine). You will have a wonderful tank full of these colorful jewels!


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Thanks again for all the extra info*

I only wanted to know more about the steel devil. The extra scientific information you all gave about the others will help me figure out what to call them. 

Researching the info is somewhat time consuming so I REALLY appreciate it. 

Just wondering, do your bettas munch on plants? Someone is chomping on the milfoil in the tank and there's no snails after I tossed the half eaten ones the other day. 

I already discarded the pieces, but it would be like someone taking a stalk of celery and chewing on it to extract all the juice, but then leaves the shredded stalk behind. 

Thanks for the comment about the photos. I sort of refuse to post a picture that's blurry. When I go through pictures and I see blurry ones, it hurts my eyes. 

I find the acrylic tanks don't photograph well if there's any sort of scratches. 

I try to use glass tanks for that specific reason, scrub the inside with a acrylic safe algae pad, and then vinegar based windex on the outside of the tank. 

When someone puts up a new posting & titles it BEAUTIFUL colorful fish, and then the picture is all blurry & I can't make out any details I'm sort of disappointed to say the least. 

But one thing I must confess, I've taken well over 250k photos. I still consider myself an amateur, but I KNOW how to use my P&S cameras. I understand what they CAN & CAN'T do. 

Today's digital cameras make it REALLY easy to get a good photograph, but you have to learn how to use your specific camera first. Each model is different. 

I'm just using a basic P&S Canon Powershot 8MP & 10MP. 

Most of the pictures I take of the bettas are with @ 2MP-3MP setting.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

I have heavily planted tanks, so I could possibly have missed it but, to my knowledge, none of my bettas have chewed any plants. I haven't found any obviously chewed leaves. 

Most of the time, it is nearly impossible to remove every snail manually. I can only think it'd be possible with a tank that had no substrate (gravel, sand, etc) and no plants for snails to lay eggs on and hide in. So, possibly, there are some small hidden snails in crown(place where leaves come out of root mass/rhizome.

Is there anything or anyone else in tank?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Yellow & red betta were housed with ...... 



 1 dime sized ramhorn snail - half eaten/removed.
 1 corn kernel sized pond snail - eaten
 1 pellet sized mystery snail - eaten
 8" Milfoil cutting
anacharis cutting
 
Since all the snails were dead & ramhorns fouled up the water, I put the bettas in a spare betta cup.

Rinsed off the plants, and used the water from the old cup to feed the trees outside. 

The bettas got brand new conditioned water.
Clean green plants. 

Later that day.... 

The stem of the milfoil was chewed up & stalk was spit out. Both of the new yellow & lava red girls did this. 

I've only seen my rosy barbs rip leaves off plants & chew on the plants.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I still only say MG because that is what people use because it sticks and usually people understand that more. Just like when people say "Koi" meanwhile its just a marble. There is a lot of colors that have all these interesting names that make people appeal to them, but I refuse to call them these names because of the confusion it creates for the true color name.

Chard56 has recently been using the names of blue,red, or black "Devil" and I think its because he sees many more people interested in his fish because of the name usually. He used to use the correct names. He uses them for business.

If you ask me, like I said before, I don't think anyone has any real MGs that can be truly called MG's because of the article. So technically anything that has yellow fins and a dark colored body, people think they are MGs. Even if I see mustard colored yellow fins and a green irid colored body, I won't exactly think of it as a true MG. So I see what you're saying there.

Even if they were universally used, I don't think its correct to continue using them because they can confuse people that want to learn or are learning the correct names and variations.

I think to continue using those names will still just confuse people. As I explained before



ravenwinds said:


> I apologize, I did not notice that the yellow had black, I thought she is all yellow fins gold body, therefore yellow/gold which is also what I have seen Chard call it...I would not have debated the name MG if I had seen the black, although, since I too read that bettysplendens article, I don't call anything MG unless it has that colour of mustard yellow fins and a greenish grey body...to me all others are simply : Bicolor...so MSG has a yellow/black bicolor.
> 
> And I am aware we are not Thai.
> I am also aware that a lot of the time names are just made up, whether in Thailand or elsewhere...but the corrections I previously made were color names that have appeared rather universally across aquabid and elsewhere.
> ...


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I agree with BL, the Thai are notorious for making up flashy names to attract customers. I've even seen a Thai breeder use very "inappropriate" english references to describe the fish- ONLY to gain more auction views and up the odds of potential buyers.

So long as we follow the paved roads the founding researchers / breeders have created, (joep, victoria, etc,) we will be able to teach new hobbyists how to decipher between a con-name, and a legitimate title. It's just like buying ice cream from a shop- "Creamy silk ice cream with decidant dark cocoa morsals," ...aka, vanilla chocolate chip..? 

It pays to do research and be aware.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

That makes sense. Now I know how to choose names for the girls.

Here's a little glimpse into what the sorority tank will look like. I'm going to model it after my 30G acrylic. Here's some of the changes it's gone through. 

It's not a betta friendly tank though, it consists of barbs & tetras. Big red had to be rescued after only 2-3 minutes.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, BL and Kaden, you both have really good points. Besides, I call the one a bicolor, because it can't be an MG as stated previously, and the red one is a red w/blue wash...it only makes sense that the other is a steel blue and red bicolor...
There now our philosophies are smooshed together and we have both compromised! It does make sense to go with a more descriptive name for colors that all betta enthusiasts can look at and get a correct picture of the fish...much more universal and it will not be changed every 30 secs by breeders with a new line to sell. Thank you 

Now to names...if the red/steel blue girl were mine, I would either make her name reflect the "devil" by naming her after a famous literary vampire, such(way overused, imo) Bella or Claudia(from vampire chronicles, Anne Rice, child vamp)...or I would name her after a stone or color name such as: crimson, Grey, or hematite, Onyx, or Heliotrope (better known as bloodstone).
Gold girl: Citrine, Topaz, Lily, Fairy Dust (sorry, watching Tinkerbell with the kids, she reminds me of the sparkly dust the fairies use ).


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay, I see your point as well, but I still stand by my reply and say that because they are wrong, they shouldn't be used. It makes a lot of sense to use a name that people will know when it's heard, but since it's a fish, too many names will confuse people and also since they are fish, the name given cannot always be true to the true color of the fish itself.

You can call them whatever you wish, but please include the correct coloration name for the fish itself when explaining it to members or people.
Thank you



ravenwinds said:


> Ok, BL and Kaden, you both have really good points. Besides, I call the one a bicolor, because it can't be an MG as stated previously, and the red one is a red w/blue wash...it only makes sense that the other is a steel blue and red bicolor...
> There now our philosophies are smooshed together and we have both compromised! It does make sense to go with a more descriptive name for colors that all betta enthusiasts can look at and get a correct picture of the fish...much more universal and it will not be changed every 30 secs by breeders with a new line to sell. Thank you


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, I was not going to respond but, here is my last: when I wrote the last response to you, BL, I not only saw your point, but went one step further and realized that since you and I seemed to agree on the whole MG vs. Bicolor issue, that I was being 1. Inconsistent with the names: if I agree that using "bicolor" is better, than I should apply it to all situations where the name is 'suspect'; 2. And if I continued to use "devil" (although it is pretty darn cute AND most breeders that I have come into contact with, use it!), I would be perpetuating the cycle!

So, I ask this BL and kaden: isn't anyone who uses MG to describe any betta with mustard yellow on it, well, perpetuating the cycle of confusion that surrounds color naming?? As a compromise, instead of taking the easy way out and saying "MG," some breeders say "mustard purple HM" or "copper gas CT" (as examples, depending on which color element is present from original MG color...if the greenish grey is present, than gas is in name, etc.)


Now: I owe a huge, ginormous, apology to MSG and your new girls for hijacking this thread so much! If I think of additional names for your new girls, I will let you know 

Have fun with your sorority, they sound like a fairly lively bunch to keep you busy. I gues some of your girls are more omnivorous than most bettas, cuz I have yet to get a betta that chews on plants! The only thing I can think is they are either really hungry from their shipping ordeal, or they are bored, which is very possible.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Bueroza*

Don't even worry about, no apologies required.

I still appreciate your responses even if it's slightly off topic. It's nice when the people who reply actually know what they're talking about. 

There's nothing worse than taking advice from a forum and finding out it's wrong after you've killed something because of bad advice. 

I'm still sort of new to bettas. Wasted enough time talking to the store employees who aren't that knowledgeable about bettas in general. . 

The one I think resembles a blue/red/black angelfish I'll call her Bueroza = steel devil. 

I think it comes from D&D, I don't play it, but I think it fits. 

About the plant nibbling/chewing, I think it's out of sheer boredom. The betta that's doing it is the little reddish one with blue eyes & she's still really picky & plays around with the food before eating it. 

That will change soon once I introduce them to their official tank.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow!! She is absolutely gorgeous! Your photos are wonderful, better than what I've done with mine...I really need to get them out in sunlight since it makes so much difference.

Oh, I got this Petco fish, supposed to have been a female VT, pretty colorless but had some great blue iridescence. She kept getting more and more color, and all her fins kept getting longer and more colorful. But, she had the "egg spot" so I put her in with one of my males....then I wondered why she kept provoking Opal. So, I put her back in community tank. Next time I saw her, her fins were even longer, and the "egg spot" was gone. Turned out it was a baby male delta tail! His name was Sapphire(from my album). 
Moral of the story: if a female has long pectoral fins and is very colorful, beware: it could be a false "egg spot"....looking at your pretty Steel Devil in the light is making me worried that she could be an immature male, so go slow with sorority tank...


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Sun = heat*

Thanks for the info & the heads up that it may be a male. When the girls get introduced, I'll be in the same room watching movies or something on a laptop. If I notice anyone that's too aggressive I'll place them in a timeout tank.

When I took the photos of Bueroza I just pulled up the window shade a little bit. 

Since you mentioned sunlight. Be careful with betta tanks & the sun. I almost cooked all my bettas when I put them right next to the window all day, during the 90+ weather.

If I didn't move my original rescued halfmoon betta out to the living room with the new bettas & noticing his weird behavior of hiding and clinging to the plastic log to escape the sunlight, they would have all died by the time I returned home in the late afternoon/evening.

Also the next morning, I found out I didn't unplug the 25watt heater afterall. It was left on for at least 12 hours before I found it melting into the kritter keeper lid.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh what a pretty boy! He looks like a tulip or more like a peony!
None of my tanks are that close to light...no direct sunlight, but it is always a good reminder.
I meant to put them in a picture "tank" to take pics...natural sunlight works best and our house tends to be dark, so I'd take them out for 20min or so in am for pics 

I have melted so many heater clamps that way!


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