# Four week old Fry update



## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

After my 2nd attempt failed I tried again. And these are the 4 week fry, they're all over around half an inch or less.

These are the parents. 

Mom-









Dad:









And here are pics of the fry


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## mollyyymo (May 21, 2010)

Wow, those last couple of fry are so sparkly!
Congratulations, they're lookin' good.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks! I know! I was so surprised at how sparkly they were. lol


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Great job.....

How many fry did you end up with?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

I have about 34 I think.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Thats a good manageable size, what are your plans?
IMO/E-one of the neat parts of having fry...is watching them eat and grow up....
What are you feeding?


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

They look great! I love the dad's color.


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## Sarada (May 11, 2010)

Neat, if I knew what to do with all the babies after I'd attempt to breed.


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## officialdees (Feb 1, 2010)

Beautiful pair (LOVE THE MALE)


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Thats a good manageable size, what are your plans?
> IMO/E-one of the neat parts of having fry...is watching them eat and grow up....
> What are you feeding?


Right now I'm feeding them microworms, walterworms, and brine shrimp at least once a week.. I'm trying to get them to eat Golden Pearls and Hikari First Bites.

When they get older I plan on selling them online.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Nice pics!


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

So you bred 2 different fin type's? what are you trying to acomplish with this now and year's down the road?
The female look's like a pet store betta her body type is undesirable. Very off balance, and not good semmetry on her... Im not trying to be mean I just wonder why people do this type of breeding with fish like that...


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

They look so cute!!! I love the colors on the female, and I think the dad is especially lovely!! I can;t wait to see them when they are older.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

FloridaBettas239 said:


> So you bred 2 different fin type's? what are you trying to acomplish with this now and year's down the road?
> The female look's like a pet store betta her body type is undesirable. Very off balance, and not good semmetry on her... Im not trying to be mean I just wonder why people do this type of breeding with fish like that...


Both fish are from Petco. The female is a crowntail and the male is a halfmoon. I don't know what you mean in regards to how her body type is "undesirable" but it could also be just how the pic was taken. These two were easy to breed and they both are beautiful fish. I like the crown tail/dragon type and I was interested in how the color combination between these two would result in. This may be a one time only kind of test with the breeding thing, I haven't decided yet.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

For the Fans of Bettysplendens-here is a link and a paragraph from the link on her site about creation of your own line....

http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=3005
"We all want to reach our goals as quick as possible but usually this will need several generations. Several generations, means several years of work and this will require a lot of patience which is not always easy, but it is definitely worthwhile. I hope this article will encourage hobbyists to work with their fish in order to find out what is hidden in their genetics. While doing this, do not be afraid to cross different colors and finnage types. Finally, I will end with one of the most important points when breeding bettas:.....Enjoy your hobby!"

I think you did a great job and the only way you will know what you have or what you can get...is to spawn and find out first hand.....


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

Well said OFL!!! :-D


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

FloridaBettas said it a bit harshly, but he (at least I think you're a he because you put "girls" as one of your interests in your profile, but excuse me if I'm wrong!) isn't totally wrong in questioning you about your motives. It is generally frowned upon to breed for practice or just as an experiment--after all you're creating a lot of lives that will be very hard to permanently rehome because they're the same kind of stock you can buy in any pet store. If you were wondering what would happen as a result of your two fish, you could just have done a bit of research on betta genetics and from there, would have been able to infer the kind of fish you would get. 

I don't disagree altogether with experimentation, as that is how so much variation in the species has originated, but I think it should be done with more intent than just "to see what you'll get," y'know? Especially since nowadays that curiosity can be satisfied by just a little research. 

Anyway, that's just my two cents.  Good to hear the babies are doing well, I hope you have lots of good luck with finding them great homes. I hope you keep us updated.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

They are cuties! And you're obviously doing something right this time around!

I agree with OldFishLady (and Victoria), you have to start somewhere to create something unique. If the genetics of the fish you're breeding appeal to you, then those are the ones you should use. 
Why does the default selection have to be HMs? Don't get me wrong, if I ever bred that's exactly the fin type I would use but not everyone is the same. 
I'm sure that some people thought that breeding a wild type with a splendens was preposterous but look at the amazing lines they have created over time.
On the other hand, as Adastra said, it's ideal to start off with a good pair as you can never be sure of the genetics of a petstore fish. Even if a fish looks great he/she might be carrying a gene you don't want in your fry. 
As long as you're realistic about what you're doing, don't expect all the fry to have the best characteristics of both parents, and realize that you'll probably will have to give away your fish in order to get them homes, you're allright in my book. 
Taking those things in consideration, I think you should wait out the outcome of this experience and how you feel about it before you breed another pair.
As I said, you're definitely doing something right if your fry have survived for 4 weeks and are looking so healty. If you love them and have the resources to house them if you can't find homes for them, why not?
I repeated myself there but I hope you get my point LOL!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Adastra said:


> FloridaBettas said it a bit harshly, but he (at least I think you're a he because you put "girls" as one of your interests in your profile, but excuse me if I'm wrong!) isn't totally wrong in questioning you about your motives. It is generally frowned upon to breed for practice or just as an experiment--after all you're creating a lot of lives that will be very hard to permanently rehome because they're the same kind of stock you can buy in any pet store. If you were wondering what would happen as a result of your two fish, you could just have done a bit of research on betta genetics and from there, would have been able to infer the kind of fish you would get.
> 
> I don't disagree altogether with experimentation, as that is how so much variation in the species has originated, but I think it should be done with more intent than just "to see what you'll get," y'know? Especially since nowadays that curiosity can be satisfied by just a little research.
> 
> Anyway, that's just my two cents.  Good to hear the babies are doing well, I hope you have lots of good luck with finding them great homes. I hope you keep us updated.



I did the research. I know that they'll end up as combtails/halfsuns but I generally like to experience things for myself. I'll find homes for them as well. Thank you for your comments.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

vilmarisv said:


> They are cuties! And you're obviously doing something right this time around!
> 
> I agree with OldFishLady (and Victoria), you have to start somewhere to create something unique. If the genetics of the fish you're breeding appeal to you, then those are the ones you should use.
> Why does the default selection have to be HMs? Don't get me wrong, if I ever bred that's exactly the fin type I would use but not everyone is the same.
> ...


Thanks. Yes, I love them very much! I'll find some way to get them homes.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

I was just asking, and it kind of suck's why your breeding them. I could see experimenting if you were a good size breeder to see what you could posibley add to your line. It would be okay to breed them if you were and IBC member then you would no what to look for, because you may get some half sun's but the rest are going to look like fin rot and a web duck's foot. Now if you new the IBC standard's and was starting your own line to try to make a pattern and forum you have in mind. But this is not the case, your just breeding just cause and pet store bettas at that and 2 different fin type's without a future plain. 
I don't get it if your gonna breed, at least join the IBC. It's only 20 dollars, and then you no what to look for and better the breed.
Plus when you sign up, you can get a free pair of show bettas from a winning breeder. There's a reason show breeder's seperate there selfs from pet store betta people, and it's because of stuff like this here. We are trying to better the breed and others just set it back. I try to talk with people about getting a decent pair and they don't care they ride right to petco and pick up a pair, and then breed them. It's like talking to a wall, waste of time...! it would be the end of the world if they had to spend 10 or 15 dollars extra on a good betta..


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I can understand FB's point of view, becuase he is too IBC oriented. Such views will advise the termination of undesired fish. But keep in mind that not all are IBC oriented. Some can really admire what IBC calls mutts. Remember that "QUALITY IS MERELY WHAT PLEASES THE HEART". So instead of criticizing, someone for their courage to learn, I suggest that we encourage them with views that will improve the quality of their bettas. Whether they listen or not is up to them.

For example; The male may not be a show quality but it is close and can be improved. How? First, determine what's wrong with it - thin fins, long anal fins, and still has a slight stain of red (this is only my quick analysis, just an example..... btw I apologize to angelus if this offends you). 
Now, consider what type of betta is available to angelus that fits her budget. Let's say that VT's are the only type she can get. No problem. I would advise a solid similar color or green (to get rid of the red stain). Make sure that the female has a thicker/stiff fins and her anal fins does not exceed her tail. Yes, angelus would have to inbreed extensively to eventually achieve her goal. But it's a start toward IBC's standards.

..... that is only my opinion; we cannot force people to expand IBC's interests. ...... If I were narrow minded, I would question "Why do Americans buy VT's, mutts, etc?" (You see, we ship A LOT of mutts to the states. WHY!? Simply because that is the demand - as long as they are colorful, they are desirable). So, again I suggest that we respect what pleases other individuals. Don't discourage their enthusiasm to learn (specially the younger generation). Instead we should point them in the right direction.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Very well said Indjo.....and I agree....


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## Sarada (May 11, 2010)

I love my mutt betta, he seems stronger and has more character then the others. Perfect for my 3yr old son


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

indjo said:


> I can understand FB's point of view, becuase he is too IBC oriented. Such views will advise the termination of undesired fish. But keep in mind that not all are IBC oriented. Some can really admire what IBC calls mutts. Remember that "QUALITY IS MERELY WHAT PLEASES THE HEART". So instead of criticizing, someone for their courage to learn, I suggest that we encourage them with views that will improve the quality of their bettas. Whether they listen or not is up to them.
> 
> For example; The male may not be a show quality but it is close and can be improved. How? First, determine what's wrong with it - thin fins, long anal fins, and still has a slight stain of red (this is only my quick analysis, just an example..... btw I apologize to angelus if this offends you).
> Now, consider what type of betta is available to angelus that fits her budget. Let's say that VT's are the only type she can get. No problem. I would advise a solid similar color or green (to get rid of the red stain). Make sure that the female has a thicker/stiff fins and her anal fins does not exceed her tail. Yes, angelus would have to inbreed extensively to eventually achieve her goal. But it's a start toward IBC's standards.
> ...


lol. I'm not offended. thanks. We'll see what the babies are gonna look like. That's all we can do right?


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

I just think someone should have a direction there going in, not just cause they want to see what it make's. If you want to experment on starting your own line or type of betta then sure no problem. But you also need to no a fishes standard's if your going to try to make something, unless you dont care and you just trying to make bad mutated fish. Which is just hurting the future of the betta splenden by putting them kind of fish out there. 
I dont see nothing wrong with having pet store fish, but if your going to breed would it kill you to spend 10 or 15 more dollars to start off with a decent pair, then more people want the fish and instead of year's and year's of breeding that pet store fish to try to improve it, you just did with 10 or 15 extra dollar's. And your putting money in the breeder's pocket's that deserve it.. Plus there still going to be a lot of improvment's you need to make you just shaved a couple years off by buying decent stock..
And yes there's people buying pet store bettas all the time, more then half of them people dont no about the betta world dont no about the show side of thing's. And when they find out they want that AB betta or whatever.
And all im saying if you are going to breed the pet store betta and not spend 10 or 15 exrta. then at least take the money and join the IBC so you no how to better the fish. Not just cause more problem's
That's why you see most of the betta show forum's dont deal with this stuff and these people, because they are working year's and year's to try so hard to make a great betta. And then you got these people that dont care that are just setting back all that hard work just putting these bettas out there. It's crazy how people dont care, It's like if some of these people had a zoo they would be like let's breed a bear with a lion and this with that lol I want to see what happen's. I guess Just got to brush it off and laugh and try to help the one's that really want it.......


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

I know where you're coming from and I definitely agree with your point of view despite the fact that I don't think you're expressing yourself very well in your last two posts--they come off a little arrogant and abrasive, remember--you'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. People don't necessarily need to be members of IBC, but I agree that people should put more effort into talking to other breeders, looking at what's current, and that they should breed for a purpose using quality stock that they have an understanding of the history of. IBC just happens to be a great way to do that.

As for this situation, what's done is done and angelus said he'd do the best with finding the fish homes. It's good to advocate for what you feel is right, but at some point you need to acknowledge that some people are just going to do what feels right for them, so you need to say your peace in one politely worded post and move on to subjects that are relevant to the topic. Who knows, if the OP sees you as a successful breeder role model, maybe he'll be more inclined to see things your way.  At this point we need to shift the focus back to helping the OP with any issues he might run into with his fry.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree with Adastra.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Adastra said:


> I know where you're coming from and I definitely agree with your point of view despite the fact that I don't think you're expressing yourself very well in your last two posts--they come off a little arrogant and abrasive, remember--you'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. People don't necessarily need to be members of IBC, but I agree that people should put more effort into talking to other breeders, looking at what's current, and that they should breed for a purpose using quality stock that they have an understanding of the history of. IBC just happens to be a great way to do that.
> 
> As for this situation, what's done is done and angelus said he'd do the best with finding the fish homes. It's good to advocate for what you feel is right, but at some point you need to acknowledge that some people are just going to do what feels right for them, so you need to say your peace in one politely worded post and move on to subjects that are relevant to the topic. Who knows, if the OP sees you as a successful breeder role model, maybe he'll be more inclined to see things your way.  At this point we need to shift the focus back to helping the OP with any issues he might run into with his fry.


I'm a she.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Sheesh. maybe humans should enact laws that make it only so that the beautiful perfect people can have children (under the supervision of scientists and geneticists). Then we can get rid of all the mutts and "uglies".

Its a fish. In the end, the only thing 99% of the world cares about is long fins and pretty colors.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

When a Betta meets the IBC standard...it meets the standard regardless of what the fish cost. 
There is no perfect Betta- all will have a fault-be it a minor or major fault in the standard.
This is often why we breed...the quest for the perfect betta that meets the standard without a fault....the driving force.......

Why is the two dollar betta that meet standard any less of a fish than a fifty dollar betta that meets standard with the same minor or major fault....because both will have a fault of some type.....

True-you don't know the history of the two dollar betta, however, often you will not know the history of the fifty dollar betta either
The only way to find out is to breed and see what is hidden, why is that any different than breeding a fifty dollar fish with faults and unknown history or a betta from a breeder with equal faults.

With a breeder-you may or may not get history and by buying from a breeder to continue their line they make money...everything boils down to money and often you will get this type of information from "for profit" breeders- that breeding two dollar bettas is not a good idea because this take money out of their pocket...(not that I think it is wrong to make a profit from breeding any species of fish).

But why is it so wrong to want to create your own line by starting from scratch.......the unknown can often be exciting.......without experimenting we wouldn't have some of the fish we have today.

If you do your research, cull hard, why is it so wrong and how is this hurting the species...especially when keeping fresh blood in an animal is so important to keep it fresh......too much inbreeding can hurt the species and this is why bringing in unknown stock can be important.

Not everyone wants to show and their goal is to create a beautiful and unique creature that they call their own....just like specialty breeders......


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

I agree oldfishlady.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

I never said breeding different tail type's, is wrong. I didn't say breeding pet store bettas is wrong. Buy you won't no what fault's to look for if you don't no the standards. So if your going to breed take the little bit of money join the IBC so you can start a line. 
And yes each fish will have faults, but that 50 dollar fishes faults are so small and easy to fix. Plus I don't no where your buy in a 50 dollar fish with faults? Or not knowing the history and gentics. You can buy a fish that just won 1st place at a show for 30 so if a fish is 50 he better make gold babies. An not eveything boils down to money if you find the right breeder, they will put money out of there pocket to better the fish.
And it's kind of like do you want a house that's only half way built and the half that is built is messed up or do you want to start off with a house that is almost done and is in good shape, it just needs a couple improvments and your own twist. Your betta stock you start breeding with is your house start out with some thing nice and keep up with it or get something that's going to take 5 years to get to where you could be for 10 extra dollars. 
Everyone is different some like to live nasty, and not try to better anything and some live nice as the can and try to take the right step's if there going to me serious and breed. 
Some don't care and will start off with whatever knowing there going to breed don't no how to fix it and don't want to then some start off with decent stock and work to learn how and what to look for to better the fish. And they do this without showing in mind. Me and a lot of people I no haven't even got to the showing point yet. So it's not all about showing... Anyway I'm over wasting my breath.... Good luck..


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I too consider IBC standards are the better looking. So I agree with FB and with "responsible" breeding. But it isn't always easy for some people to understand IBC concepts, such as genetics, tail types, etc. I often see many (incl. IBC oriented) still confused on color or tail type definition. IMO the reason people join forums like this is to learn. So it is the responsibility of members who do understand to give them explanations.

To be honest, I find it difficult to understand articles on genetics, not because of language but more due to the "too scientific" explanation. What is a melano, a normal, and a melano geno? What do they actually look like? How do they actually effect other colors? Etc.
I am fortunate to have the advantage of experience and viewing the pictures (of line creation), then I understand and in turn can explain some genetics. But others, specially beginners, can only imagine and do not really know how they work. 
So IMO, it is our responsibility to translate the scientific's into a "common everyday language" so they understand. Hopefully, then they can accept the IBC views.

I have, for a long time, worked with only pet store bettas. As long as we know what to look for, it only takes 3 generations to get a good form and color. So let's make others understand that the next time they shop for bettas, it's not merely because it looks nice and colorful.


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## Neelie (Feb 18, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> Sheesh. maybe humans should enact laws that make it only so that the beautiful perfect people can have children (under the supervision of scientists and geneticists). Then we can get rid of all the mutts and "uglies".
> 
> Its a fish. In the end, the only thing 99% of the world cares about is long fins and pretty colors.


best post in the thread so far anyways..... :roll:

if i had 2 fish that have absolute stunning personalities and id have space and time and i love them etc why not breed? the fish that have NOT been overbred are stronger, healthier and often the far better choice than a high bred mega super dooper trooper halfmoon... all my "pure bred" are b***** to keep and the "mutt", a red combtail is the healthiest happiest fish i ever had. 

same with any animal really, horses, dogs, cats etc. everything over bred is always more sensitive. and some ppl dont need pure bred animals to be satisfied. i dont anyways and i wouldnt swap my mutts for anything in the world, nevermind some pure bred.

i think FB239 needs to accept that this forum is not a "we want to create perfect betta" but rather "we have bettas we all love, some with more fins than others, but we no care..." and lets admit it, a mutt betta can be just as perfect to its owner as a "purebred" betta ;-)

and why the hell would i have to join the ibc to create a line??? lol


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## Sarada (May 11, 2010)

haha well put Alex!


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah well human's have already messed all that up with inter racial breeding. Look back in the 1600s, 1700s and 1800s before 2010, everyone stay together roman's, jews, white's with white's and so on people were not just going around and saying let's breed this midget with a huge 7 ft tall guy, anyway your on a whole different topic...
Human's compared to fish? you cant!!! we are the top we make the call, so when there's a standard for something and you got all these thai and joe blow peolpe that don't care about the standard, They just care about $$$ or them self... so what if there degrading the fish with every breed, right? So what if they dont even no what the standards are for a animal, Let's just breed them just because or for $$$$ or to see what we get.. Anyway I think your way off base comparing human's to animal's... The animal's can't make the important call's they need to be made that's why it's up to us to do it.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

:shock:


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## Owlets (Oct 24, 2009)

Alex09 said:


> Sheesh. maybe humans should enact laws that make it only so that the beautiful perfect people can have children (under the supervision of scientists and geneticists). Then we can get rid of all the mutts and "uglies".
> 
> Its a fish. In the end, the only thing 99% of the world cares about is long fins and pretty colors.


Haha, well put.


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## puddin (Apr 5, 2010)

Whoa, I agree the comparison of humans to fish was a little out there.... but whoa!!!

Back to the fish, my son really wanted a combtail he saw in the pet store, I wasn't as crazy about him but bought him for my son's room. The fins were really messy and it didn't appeal to me, but he has a great personality and is cherished by my son. I would never breed him or want to see a lot of bettas that look like him, but my son thinks he's beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Neelie (Feb 18, 2010)

^^^ you take betta's and their "standards" WAY too seriously...... :roll:

the ibc doesnt hold the copyright to these fish and ppl can breed what ever they want (whoever breeds needs to sort re-homing or keeping the fry, thats fair enough obviously). of course your entlitled to your opinion but talking ppl into paying 20$ for some club just so they can breed THEIR fish with the ibc's blessing is just pure ridiculous.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

I think this thread has wandered off topic...this was about a proud betta owner showing their wonderful fry and it turned to a debate about breeding to IBC standards or mutts....They already bred their fish nothing anyone can say now can change it, so we should just enjoy to see a nice picture time line of their growth  I personally think they are adorable!


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## sjones (Apr 28, 2010)

exactly. genetic engineering is horrifying, all i can think is Nazi's (sic) and poor grammar!
When something is plural use an "s" such as Nazis
When you intend to show ownership use an apostrophe s, such as "This betta's bowl"
When you intend to show plural ownership use s apostrophe: such as "These dogs' bones"


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

and *know is not spelled *no


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

The only thing I said, If your going to breed then know what your breeding know what to do with it. Know how to better it. How do we do that by knowing the standard's. If you wan't to feep bettas keep betta's but if your going to step into the world of breeding at least get serious and do thing's right, even if you don't start with good stock... If you wan't to breed just because or because you wan't to see what happen's or whatever your deal is, you really don't care and are a selfish human. If your going to do something do it right!!!

Who care's what no is spelled like you get the point, and I don't feel like spelling it out, What is this are we in school now lol...


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## XSprinkleFaceX (Nov 17, 2009)

FloridaBettas239 said:


> Yeah well human's have already messed all that up with inter racial breeding. Look back in the 1600s, 1700s and 1800s before 2010, everyone stay together roman's, jews, white's with white's and so on people were not just going around and saying let's breed this midget with a huge 7 ft tall guy, anyway your on a whole different topic...
> Human's compared to fish? you cant!!! we are the top we make the call, so when there's a standard for something and you got all these thai and joe blow peolpe that don't care about the standard, They just care about $$$ or them self... so what if there degrading the fish with every breed, right? So what if they dont even no what the standards are for a animal, Let's just breed them just because or for $$$$ or to see what we get.. Anyway I think your way off base comparing human's to animal's... The animal's can't make the important call's they need to be made that's why it's up to us to do it.


Well you compared breeding two COMPLETELY different zoo animals to breeding 2 bettas...lol At least the humans is technically a better comparison. And as with the human and inter racial reltationships...that's not the reason why some people are "ugly" now-a-days.
BESIDES, who made humans the God of all fish saying who they can breed with or not...that's not how it is in the wild. That's just another way of humans trying to take charge of something we can't control just like usual. The "standard" was something made up by people to "perfect" a creature and because of that you guys will never get a perfect fish cause it is out of human control.
As for your last sentence, the looks of an animal is not an important call that we have to make for them. How does that even make sense? It's not like the fish is going to die if his fin wasn't at a perfect angle. We weren't given a conscience to tell animals what's right and what's wrong with breeding that has nothing to do with humans. We weren't put on this earth to control the breeding habits of animals. Besides if it wasn't for mixing up the breeds and stuff you wouldn't have the pretty betta we have now.
Another thing, inbreeding, which is a very common thing people in the IBC do, is not that good for the genetics of the animal. If it is prolonged the genes of the fish can get mutated...just like every other animal that walks this Earth..including humans. 
And you know what? I have a mutt betta and though he may not look as "perfect" as your standard IBC betta, he's perfect to me and I still love him cause his imperfections make him different than every other fish.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Can we get back on topic, please and quit arguing??


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

How are the fry doing...got any new pic?

So much fun watching them grow and even at such a young age they show so much personality........


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## XSprinkleFaceX (Nov 17, 2009)

Yah how are they!? I'd love to see how your sparkly fry are looking.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

They're doing great. Iv'e noticed though that there are about 4 or 5 fry that are much smaller than the other ones. Should I separate them or something?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Here's some more cuteness!


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## XSprinkleFaceX (Nov 17, 2009)

Your fishies are gonna be green(or yellow but im pushing more to green) and blue or purple  theyre adorable


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

they make me happy! LOL so cute!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Awww, they're sooo cute!!


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## FireKidomaru (Jan 24, 2010)

wow! they look sooooo cute!! i love how you can see their little baby organs! they are sooo cute! cant wait till they color up!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Nice job.....

You nearly always will have different size fry in a spawn, partly due to hatch times and stunting hormones. An hour difference in age can make a big difference in the fish world.....

I usually separate mine-all depending on size difference, the bigger ones I usually put in a 20g by the time they are 4-8 weeks old.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Here's some pics of one of my big ones.


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## XSprinkleFaceX (Nov 17, 2009)

They're so chubby and cute ^_^


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## boxermom (Aug 15, 2010)

Wow, very cool. I had NO idea so much went into breeding fish! And I didnt know there was a fish standard. I have so much to learn.

My fish is from Petco...Is that bad? :-/


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

boxermom said:


> My fish is from Petco...Is that bad? :-/


From what I understand, it's only bad for breeding because you do not know your fish's genetics! Who knows what the parents were, what kind of strange genetics in the family exist! Plus most pet store bettas aren't up to the 'standard' betta look breeders go for.. It's the same as with any animal! For instance, dogs: if you don't know the dog's genetics, or it doesn't have the papers that mean it is OFFICIALLY that special pure bred animal, it isn't worth as much to breed, and can't get into shows and such! 

The difference is bettas can make 200+ fry! A lot harder to rehome than 7 cute puppies

But that doesn't mean the betta is any less special as a pet!


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## boxermom (Aug 15, 2010)

Interesting! 200 fry...that's a lot! 

I am involved with dog shows, and its much more than papers. It's about health testing, selective breeding and breeding to better. My Boxer has papers, but he is from a backyard breeder who didnt bother health testing. He is able to show, but not show quality. So, he does dog sports instead.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Amazing pictures! Congrats on your spawn.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks guys!


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## Owlets (Oct 24, 2009)

Aaaah so adorable!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

is that a halfmoon with a VT?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Halfmoon X crowntail


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

wow sounds cool. i love halfmoons


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

They are so darling. I can't wait to see adult pictures. 

I want to breed VTs as well.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

TheJadeBetta said:


> They are so darling. I can't wait to see adult pictures.
> 
> I want to breed VTs as well.




im trying to breed CT's they are so full of life (as any other betta can be characterized as=D!!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

One fry is acting like it's sick or something. It's fins are clamped and it's laying on the bottom, and it's lost some color. And when it swims it bumps into things like it burns or something. During the water change I did yesterday I found one dead baby. I'm not sure how long the dead one was in there- maybe a day or so. But I just checked the ammonia levels and they are normal. All the other fry are acting fine but that one. Anyone have any ideas?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What is the ammonia number...normal to you may not be normal to others...0ppm is normal anything higher is not.

I would remove that fry and maybe cull it to keep from infecting the other fry or QT it...either way I would get out of the tank. It may be velvet....

How much and how often are you making water changes, water temp, what size is the tank and how many fry and how old are they now, what are you feeding and how much, any live plants and filtration if used?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> What is the ammonia number...normal to you may not be normal to others...0ppm is normal anything higher is not.
> 
> I would remove that fry and maybe cull it to keep from infecting the other fry or QT it...either way I would get out of the tank. It may be velvet....
> 
> How much and how often are you making water changes, water temp, what size is the tank and how many fry and how old are they now, what are you feeding and how much, any live plants and filtration if used?


The ammonia is at 0ppm. I clean the bottom every two days and do a 15-20 percent water change once a week. Water temp is at 78-80, and I'm feeding them hikari first bites powder and golden pearls - just a pinch of each twice a day. They are in a 10 gallon tank and I've got a bunch of live plants and snails. And I have a sponge filter. The baby still eats though.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh and the fry are about 6 weeks old. And there is about 26 fry.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

angelus2402004 said:


> Oh and the fry are about 6 weeks old. And there is about 26 fry.


can you give us more pics


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like you are doing everything right...maybe increase the water changes is all I would change in your care-to 50% daily-especially since you are feeding dry food, but the snail should be picking that up.

I would still QT the sick one and watch the others close....velvet can wipe out everyone of your fry...fast.....dirty tank is the biggest reason along with water temp swings....


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

ok. thanks oldfishlady


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

pics as requested


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

wow they are so cute and shiny. Also i think i seen a little red is brown like a bergendy


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Very nice, they look great and you take great pics...how do you do that....what kind of camera are you using and settings.......great job....


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks. I have a nikon d60 camera and I use the micro settings.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Still adorable! :lol:


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

ohh man!!! i want my nikon coolpix 995 to charge. i have to get a new charger but i will have it on hopefully soon


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## betta99 (Aug 16, 2010)

lol the first few look chubby  cute!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Another baby started acting like the sick one. I separated him as well.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

i hope they get healthier and you have a bunch of babies!!

good luck!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You may want to start a treatment for velvet, I don't use medications so I can't advise, you should PM 1fish and see what she used to treat her fry.....


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

ok. thanks


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well i hope they get better as ive said before and i think im going to keep saying it until it actually happens


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

The ones that were sick are doing a lot better. There's just only one that is still recovering in the quarantine.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Aww poor little troopers. at least they are being strong and trying


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Honestly I'd rather breed two types of fish and create something unique than something we have tons of. Like red + red = red...not fun right? (Though I love red bettas so some solid colors I would definatley breed). Like something I could call my own.

Plus in nature bettas don't care if they're perfect halfmoons or perfect coloring (not possible but you get my point) they breed because it's instinct and nature. But when you breed to get such a perfect halfmoon he can't even swim that's a little much. Just my view on the arguement. I like the IBC but they're standards are a little much.

Anyway how are the fry?


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## Euphie101 (Aug 28, 2010)

Wow they are adorable!!! In the last pics the fry are really getting some nice color


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

The fry are doing very well. They are always eager to eat whenever I turn the light on to check on them.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well of course they are little babies!! Pictures??!!??!!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

here's some more pics. they are at 7 weeks old.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They're beautiful!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree and they are so shiny and glossy!! i love there color!!!!

Beautiful color and Amazing pictures!!!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

They are all sooo pretty! I get so excited everytime you post new pictures!  Looking at the first photos of them makes me giggle! Can't wait til they get bigger!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Me either i would love one but its so hard being on a budget!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

No cambodians? interesting.... 
Great babbies. They look awsome!!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

indjo said:


> No cambodians? interesting....
> Great babbies. They look awsome!!!


Was there supposed to be some Cambodians?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Mommy is a blue cambodian isn't she? So I thought there should be some cambodians. At least IME, when I used cambodians, I always get cambodians.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

indjo said:


> Mommy is a blue cambodian isn't she? So I thought there should be some cambodians. At least IME, when I used cambodians, I always get cambodians.


Oh yes of course!! lol Sorry just forgot! but i am surprised to now!!

Hey at least she has fry though! be grateful for the fry being happy and healthy and alive!!


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## Saroar (Jul 27, 2010)

Oh my gosh! So sparkly! I love them, they are so cute. I, personally, like combtails and half-suns. I love their colors.
I want to have my own line of metallic green double veiltails one day.
I still have plenty of research to do, but that's just my future goal. Like, way in the future.

Anyways, congrats on your stunning fry!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

indjo said:


> No cambodians? interesting....
> Great babbies. They look awsome!!!


There's one or two that I think are cambodians.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

indjo said:


> Mommy is a blue cambodian isn't she? So I thought there should be some cambodians. At least IME, when I used cambodians, I always get cambodians.


The female is more of a dark red/purple color.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

angelus2402004 said:


> The female is more of a dark red/purple color.


Really then how is she blur in the pic?

Did you use flash?

Can we have pictures of the Cambodians?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

angelus2402004 said:


> The female is more of a dark red/purple color.


Really.... I guess the picture doesn't do her justice. lol


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

i guess not but the picture makes her look fantastic but also can you get one with out flash so we can see something close to her real color?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> i guess not but the picture makes her look fantastic but also can you get one with out flash so we can see something close to her real color?


I shall take pics when I get home from school


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

When you breed a copper to a fish with blue in the iridescent layer you get greens with lots of red wash. Looks like the babies turned out just as expected.  Very pretty, good to hear they're doing better. Methylene blue is a good treatment for parasites and fungus in fry and eggs, it's not as harsh as malachite green.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

angelus2402004 said:


> I shall take pics when I get home from school


okay cool cant wait!!:-D:-D


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

These are the best I could get of her. She wouldn't stop moving.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well i can just slightly see her true color, but yea i bet she is fast.

Shes still adorable.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Here's some more pics of the babies. This time I got pics of the cambodian fry.


















































































Cambo


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow cute!! the last few are cambo's right?


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## Welsh (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh wow they are so sparkly and cute


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree Welsh!!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Ohh they are going to be the most GORGEOUS adults!!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> Wow cute!! the last few are cambo's right?


ya just that same one. I think that there is only one cambo in that group of babies.


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## Saroar (Jul 27, 2010)

This is one of my favorite threads because you always update with pictures.


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## Zeetrain (Oct 13, 2009)

Awesome. Im very interested to see what they look like when theyre biger. Keep the pics coming.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Saroar said:


> This is one of my favorite threads because you always update with pictures.


thanks!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

When should I start to separate them? I think they are a little over half an inch.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You can keep them together until they begin to get over aggressive and starts to chase others. Usually if they aren't moved to a new tank or given new environment, they remain peaceful longer. IME, usually about 2-3 months, but some may remain peaceful until 4-5 months.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

ok. Thanks


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

angelus2402004 said:


> ya just that same one. I think that there is only one cambo in that group of babies.


Well at least you have healthy fry and got a bonus cambo!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Saroar said:


> This is one of my favorite threads because you always update with pictures.


I agree!! she doesnt let the thread die and get boring!!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry that I haven't updated in a while I've been busy with school. And sunday I just lost the Dad fish. He was my favorite.

But here's tons of pics of the little nippers. Even though in most of the pics they looks green and stuff some are actually a lot darker blue-or purple.

But enjoy the pics!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Some more:


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## Learn To Fly (May 15, 2010)

Was the dad a dragon? He looks like it to me. Anyway the babies are so cute! Maybe you'll have some dragon babies.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

They're looking great!


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

aww how cute! They all look great!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Give us an update!! i'd love to see pics of the beauties!!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Cuuute!! I love them! I also love the group shots and seeing all the colors


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## weluvbettas (May 29, 2010)

They have grow soo much!!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Learn To Fly said:


> Was the dad a dragon? He looks like it to me. Anyway the babies are so cute! Maybe you'll have some dragon babies.


ya the dad was a dragon


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Can you take more pics?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> Can you take more pics?


Those are the pics I just took today. lol


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Your babies look great...how old are they now? about how long are they?

Lots of fun watching them grow up and develop personalities.......


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow Sorry i didnt see the pictures because i went to far into the thread i skipped the amazing fry pics! so how old are they?


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Your babies look great...how old are they now? about how long are they?
> 
> Lots of fun watching them grow up and develop personalities.......


They are 9 and a half weeks old. And the larger ones are nearing the 1 inch mark. The smaller ones are a little less than half an inch.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

They are beautiful!


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## Mermaid Fish (Jul 10, 2010)

There really cute!


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## Saroar (Jul 27, 2010)

They are looking really great. You've got a lot of sparkly fry. 
It looks like you've got a lot of cambodians too, if i'm not mistaken.
They've grown so much!


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## Zeetrain (Oct 13, 2009)

When will the males start to get longer fins. they all look like females to me.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Zeetrain said:


> When will the males start to get longer fins. they all look like females to me.


There are some already that have much longer fins than the other fish.


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## PucknLoki (Sep 10, 2010)

Aww they're so cute ^^ Man I'd love to breed my bettas but I know I don't have the patience or time yet to follow through with all the hard work. <3 your fry are super love.


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks. Ya I've got a total of 16 hungry little nippers!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

16 cuuuute little nippers!!! I can't wait til they start looking more and more like mini versions of their adult selves


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey guys. It's been a while since my last update. All (17 or 18) [i must of missed counted] of my fish are a little over an inch. I've got a lot of males about 7 or 8 that I can tell of. I had to separate 3 of them because they have become a bit aggressive. One of them was flaring at their siblings so I thought that I should remove him because I don't want any injured fish. They all look adorable and their coloring is getting nice ( I'll try to get some pics sometime but it's been busy with school and whatnot).


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## anglnarnld (Aug 27, 2010)

FloridaBettas239 said:


> So you bred 2 different fin type's? what are you trying to acomplish with this now and year's down the road?
> The female look's like a pet store betta her body type is undesirable. Very off balance, and not good semmetry on her... Im not trying to be mean I just wonder why people do this type of breeding with fish like that...


Why are you being so rude??


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## Sarada (May 11, 2010)

Why 'practice' with $30 fish when you can practice with $3 fish....


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## rubyfire (Dec 10, 2009)

How old are your babies now? They are so cute from your other pics.

I have 6 babies of my own that are at least 4 months old now (I lose track of time easily) I love um to death. . Their parents are petstore bettas too. Mom a combtail and dad a crowntail. Just last weekend I had to seperate 2 males babies. Little buggars flare at eachother and its sooo cute .

Hope too see pics of your babies soon! 
(I'd have pics of mine but I cant get good pics with my computer cam)


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## celine18 (Sep 25, 2010)

awwww they're all so cute!!! XD its been really cool seeing the pics of them growing up, they've really gone far from the small little clear guys they started as!! thanks for posting all these pics!!!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Sarada said:


> Why 'practice' with $30 fish when you can practice with $3 fish....


The biggest issue I've seen people have with that is this:
We see so many petstore bettas that stay in the stores, sometimes for well over a month! They die from poor care, when they would have lived if someone bought them and set them up.. There are so many bettas coming in that people just can't sell them all!

Although any petstore betta makes a great pet, just as good as an aquabid betta, many people would still rather buy the nearly perfect aquabid beauty if presented with the choice. 

If you breed the $30 dollar fish you will often times get more traditionally beautiful fry, which will be much easier to rehome/sell...

If you breed $3 dollar fish from a petstore their babies will look like every other fish in petstores--there are already so many that can't be rehomed when sold for very cheap in pet stores. The question buyers would have is 'what makes your fish any different?' and you would end up with the same problem.. the pretty ones would sell fast, but what if you end up with 20-30 of the type of fish that just never sells? 

That is the argument against breeding petstore fish.

I'm sort of middle of the road, I can see the pros and I can see the cons. I know from experience and working with reptiles that you often need to get new blood into breeding projects, sometimes that petstore animal has just the perfect mutation or color you are after, even if it takes the extra work.

I say this: if you breed petstore bettas for practice or just because they are cheap and you liked them, you just absolutely MUST be responsible and be aware that you might end up with 30 fish that have terrible fins and color and just might never sell. You'll have to take care of them until you find proper homes for them all. Sure, there are some people who would be much happier buying a fish from a breeder, even if it is just the same as the ones at walmart, because they are aware of the problem with bettas and other animals in general and know to support the responsible owners, not the irresponsible pet stores.... But think of what we've all experienced--honestly, there aren't a lot of people who care. We see all the time people buying betta coffins, flushing their fish because they got bored/got a new one, or putting two males together to watch them fight. As sad as it is, a lot of people need more of a reason to take care of their fish. If they can just replace it at walmart for two dollars, why would they spend 100+ dollars on it? But, if many people get a special one, a true beauty they can't find anywhere else.. they'll often times take much better care of it to preserve their 'special' fish.

Just whatever a breeder does, they need to be aware of all the questions..How they will breed, what they will breed, why they will do it, who will they sell them to, and where will their fish go if no one wants them! And what are they willing to do with all the fry.. 

I think there are good reasons to breed petstore fish. I love veiltails, and I would hate to watch them continue to worsen in quality. The people who are working on improving them, kudos, that's a great goal. It's going to take a ridiculous amount of work, but I have faith it is possible. 

If you know what you're doing, I think some people can successfully add a 'mutt' to their line, even if it means a few more generations of breeding the fins back to good quality. I've seen it happen, it's pretty cool. The fish always seem to get more lively and hardy when they have a little bit less inbreeding in them. 

I honestly wish it was easier to cut petstores out of the equation entirely. I would be all for breeding 'non ibc quality' fish..if it meant non breeders could buy an affordable, still beautiful pet, while NOT buying them from bad petstores. If we could have that option to purchase from a responsible breeder, even if we don't want a 30-50 dollar fish.. Awesome. I'm so ok with that. I would be thrilled to buy even the unwanted fish from a responsible breeder, because I know they have been treated well. 



I dunno, I totally ranted like a crazy person here. I guess the short version is: I think you can breed petstore bettas as long as you are willing to face the consequences and not let your fry suffer because you can't find homes. If you know what you're doing, awesome. If not, don't do it.

I personally love these fish on this thread, they are cute  I think this person knows what they are doing and will take good care of the babies!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

rubyfire said:


> How old are your babies now? They are so cute from your other pics.
> 
> I have 6 babies of my own that are at least 4 months old now (I lose track of time easily) I love um to death. . Their parents are petstore bettas too. Mom a combtail and dad a crowntail. Just last weekend I had to seperate 2 males babies. Little buggars flare at eachother and its sooo cute .
> 
> ...


My babies are about 4 1/2 months old.


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## rubyfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Checked my calander, my babies are 18 weeks and 1 day old. So 6 months I think...wow time has flown by lol. 

Happy that your babies are doing well!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Any pics?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, we'd love pics, if you can post some.


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## Neelie (Feb 18, 2010)

yes i wanna see pics tooooo!


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

You have the cutest baby fish ever!!  They are so pretty


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

TaylorW said:


> You have the cutest baby fish ever!!  They are so pretty


thank you.


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

The babies are soo beautiful! Please post some pics!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

The fry are so CUTE... all EYES and TUMMIES! lol

Cheryl


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

They grow soo fast!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry for taking so long. 

Here's some pics of my babies! 
Iv'e got 18 strong healthy Combtail Halfmoons!


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

They are gorgeous!!!!


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

They look great!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

They look fantastic!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow they are so pretty!


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## crowntail lover (Apr 25, 2009)

Gorgeous!


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## angelus2402004 (Jan 5, 2010)

thanks!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Beautiful babies!!!


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## Miharu (Dec 6, 2010)

What gorgeous babies!! Great job!!


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## TaylorW (Sep 4, 2010)

Aww, I love combtails!! And they are so brightly colored and healthy looking! Great job with the fry!!


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## windfire (May 25, 2010)

awesome colours!!!


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## Duncan13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Awesome! Im jealous


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'd love a pair!


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