# Guppy with bent spine?



## MameJenny (Jun 11, 2012)

I have a filtered, 20g long NPT that's well established (9 months old). It's stocked with 1 female guppy, 1 male guppy, 4 adult platies, about 12 baby platies, 8 zebra danios, and a betta. About a week and a half ago, I noticed that one of the guppies was looking a bit thin, and her spine was a little bent. She's older - I got her in September, and she was fully grown then - so I figured it was old age. 

I did a 3-day blackout to kill some stubborn algae. When I opened the tank back up, I noticed that her spine is now significantly more bent, and she's swimming a little strangely. She's still active and eating fine, and she has no unusual spots or injuries. I have her isolated right now.

Is this just because of her age, or is it a sign of something else? I'm pretty concerned about fish TB, but I assume that the other fish would be ill by now if that was the cause. I did have one platy who seemed a little thin and lethargic last week, so I isolated him. He seems fine now - I was planning to put him back tomorrow. The only new additions are some plants and a different guppy (2-3 weeks ago). 

Thanks!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Fish TB isn't automatically caught by every fish it comes in contact with. It is my first concern as well. I spoke to a vet about Mycos this weekend, due to concerns with something that showed up in one of my fry tanks. The vet was my SECOND opinion, after also contacting the president of the IBC.

Mycos cannot be confirmed without a laboratory test, although you may be able to do a necropsy yourself and examine the spinal area for brownish or tan-ish nodules. A visual confirmation of said nodules is _almost certainly_Mycos. As the nodules grow, they bend the spine out of place. There isn't much aside from birth defect that twists the spine like that. However, the only true confirmation is PCR testing - the fish must be killed and samples taken.

Mycobacterium is so common in the environment that depopulation and sterilization is no longer being recommended. It lives in both wet and dry environments. It is carried by snails and plants, it even lives in the dust in your house. If you kill all your fish, replace all your equipment and your tanks, and start over ... you'll just get it again.

Like any other disease, Mycos is an indicator that you need to up your husbandry practices. Up your water changes, make sure the oxygen level in your water is good - algae blooms are a warning sign that they are low - and keep salt in the water for salt tolerant species. Do not rely on a cycled filter and get "lazy" with water changes. Like any other disease, it is easier for fish to catch Mycos if another sick fish is present, so if you see the warning signs, pull the affected fish out.


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## MameJenny (Jun 11, 2012)

So, even if it is myco, it won't necessarily kill everyone and ruin the tank? That's a relief. I always thought that if you got a single fish with it, you had to euthanize everyone and start fresh. Not exactly something I want to do to a well-established display tank with 20+ fish...

I think I'll take a picture of her, then euthanize her and autopsy her. 

Admittedly, I haven't been quite on top of care for the last couple of weeks. I've had slightly raised nitrate levels, which I blamed for the algae bloom. I will do more water changes - hopefully that will prevent anyone else from getting sick.

I've also read that nutritional deficiencies and excessive spawning can cause a bent spine in the females. Do you know about those issues?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

No, I haven't heard of it, although that doesn't mean it's not true.

Mycos ... well, it used to be (and most of what you see online still says this) that if you suspected mycos, you needed to euthanize all the fish and flush and clean your system, throw away everything soft including plants and snails and substrate and nets, and burn the bodies. This was also what I was expecting to have to do. But, Gerald Griffin (president of the IBC) has made a study of it, and the vet I talked to is a fish specialist. They both agreed that the bacteria is now endemic to the general fishkeeping environment. It's so common you literally can never rid yourself of it, just like velvet. Once it's in the system, it's there and will never go away, and even if you do cleanse your whole system, the minute you bring in a new fish, you reintroduce the pathogen. Killing all of your stock is pointless. 

Obviously, our fish aren't all dropping dead, but if you see a sick fish and suspect mycos, the fish should be immediately removed and euthanized. It's still incurable if the fish actually _catches _it, after all, and _MUCH _easier for the other fish to catch mycos if someone in their tank is sick with it.

...just like every other disease. Only this one is _always _fatal.

There's some hope of a vaccine in the future. Mycos devastates commercial fisheries, and commercial fisheries are big money. Money talks - and if a vaccine is developed for commercial use, it won't be long before it is altered for the pet and hobby market, as well.


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## MameJenny (Jun 11, 2012)

Here's some pictures of her before I euthanized her:



























I did an autopsy on her. I've only done two fish autopsies, and it's hard to tell things apart in a tiny guppy, so it's possible I missed something - but her liver, gills, heart, etc. looked pretty normal. The only unusual things I noticed were her bent spine/rib cage, and a bluish, fluid-filled looking thing near her belly. I looked at some guppy anatomy charts, and couldn't figure out what the bluish thing was. It didn't seem to be attached to much. Maybe a cyst of some sort?

It's good to know that even the worst-case isn't quite as horrible as I thought. I didn't know that myco is so common. I appreciate the info. Guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on everyone, and take out anyone who looks ill.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Poor little girl. Bent bones couldn't have been comfortable. Maybe it was a cyst?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I didn't know Myco was so common, either. I think what happens when a breeder gets wiped out is it's like a house of cards. A sick fish passes it on, then they start succumbing like dominos.


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