# 9-1-1. Need help bad



## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

My poor little Betta, I am not sure what is wrong with his. For starters when I first got him a little over a month ago I noticed he was missing one of his Pelvic fins, didn't seem to bother him much just had a hard time turning the direction to quickly.

Now I have notice for over a week he has been swimming just at the top of his tank and when he would try to go to the bottom he would just spring right back up. I noticed he hadn't poop for roughly a week so I fast him the best I could (felt too bad) and I gave him a blanched Pea this weekend and he has gone some but now when he is just hanging out floating at the top his back end goes side ways. I am not sure if he is still constipated or if he has sim bladder or if he is under weight... I really need help on this one I am new to the whole Betta world and am completely obsessed with trying to cure him of whatever ails him. . I will attach a few pictures for you to see what you think.

Thanks so much for all your help. Sorry if the pictures are hard to make out. Took them with bad camera phone, I can try again with better camera if needed.

Normal right after I got him









Now pictures


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Alright, I'm not much help here, but I can give a few tips. 

1) No peas for bettas. I've read over and over again it's bad for them.
2) Daphnia works well as a laxative.
3) Your betta seems to have stress stripes (horizontal stripes)
4) Is your bowl heated? 

You should also fill out a sheet stickied at the top of the diseases page.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok what are Stress Stripes? And no it is not heated but is kept at room temps around 75 - 80 F. I will go fill that out now. Thanks

I just fed him as he was doing nothing not hardly moving and now he is swimming more since I fed him.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Stress stripes appear when a betta is well...stressed. They are horizontal strips running the length of the fish on both sides. They're usually well pronounced on darker fish. They seem the most visible on the second image.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1/2 Gallon tank
What temperature is your tank? Between 75 - 80 
Does your tank have a filter? No Filter
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? No
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Alone

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta Flakes - will not eat Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? Every other day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Once a week 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Betta Conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Not much change maybe a tad lighter.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not as active.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 1 1/2 weeks ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Fast and then given blanched Pea
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No, I got him and he was missing one Pelvic Fin though
How old is your fish (approximately)? I have had him 1 1/2 months.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Your fish looks.. very stressed and unwell. 

1/2 gallon tank isn't very big. Then take out the water displaced by rocks and decoration - he's living in just a few cupfuls of water. If you're changing that water once a week, it'll be loaded with ammonia most of the time, which will not be helping his health at all. 

He should be eating twice a day, small amounts, as you're using flakes (these also cause a lot of ammonia..). Flakes aren't great, I noticed my first betta got very bloaty on them at times - he took time to want to eat pellets but did so after I stopped giving him flakes and let him go hungry a few days if he didn't eat them. Irregular/infrequent feeding seems to be almost as bad for them as overfeeding (though stupid pet store people tell folks to feed thier bettas every few days.. they are much better off with daily small meals..)

I've never had a fish with swim bladder issues, so I'll leave that side of it to someone who's dealt with it. But please do consider a bigger living space, without sharp plastic plants and with much more frequent water changes (or at least 2-3 a week in his present home!). Some bettas freak out badly in bowls, the round shape distorts everything.. if you do choose to allow him a larger home, perhaps a try a rectangular one, it might help him not to stress. 

What's your routine for water changes now? Where do you put him for them and do you acclimate him to the new water at all?


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Right now I have no plants or stones in with him, just so I can see if he poops or not. I did have a fake plant in with him and he seemed afraid of it, would not go anywhere near it. I did have him in a bigger bowl when I first got him but it didn't have a cover and it seemed to get dirty a lot faster. My other Betta is in the same type tank and is perfectly happy with all his living conditions. 

I went ahead and fed him this morning in case he is anemic and within an hour he pooped. I will try feeding him a little more again before bed.

I was told if he can't get to the bottom of his tank to lower his water level for the time being til he gets better so it is easier for him to float around and sleep.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

If you have two bettas in this condition, it really isn't good. I really recommend splurging a bit for a 5g tank, dividing it, filtering it, and heating it. I can guarantee your fish will be more active. 

But for your situation now, I would recommend getting in contact with Oldfishlady (OFL) on the forum. She really knows how to deal with this.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't have 2 Bettas in this condition.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I meant two bettas in the .5g bowls, not two sick.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

They are in their own tanks.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What I would recommend at this point is Epsom salt (_Not aquarium salt_) with tannins treatment.

Good that you removed everything in the half gallon-this will work well for QT and treatment....Cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat/humidity for the labyrinth organ.

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water
Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and a tannin source if you have one.....
Either IAL (_1lrg crushed_) or Oak leaf (_20 crushed_)
_I use naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf for my tannin source.
_ 
Let this steep for 30min to start releasing the tannins and salt to dissolve
Shake well before use and use this premixed treatment water for 25% water changes every 15min for 1 hour today-After the last 25% water change-lower the water level so he doesn't have to struggle.

He needs to stay in this Epsom salt/tannin stained water in the covered QT for the duration of the treatment.

Tomorrow- start 50% water changes using the premixed treatment water (_if you added tannins the water should look darker every day_)
Make daily 50% WC with the premixed treatment water for the next 10-14 days.

Nutrition-if you have access to mosquito larva offer several rinsed several times a day.

If he start to get better in a day or so-Don't stop the treatment-he needs a full 10 days-longer if needed...Epsom salt is safe to use long term if needed.
If you have any live plants or a soft silk plant-add this to float to help make him feel more secure and to rest on-Dim lit quiet location.

Double check the water temp and try to maintain this in the 76-77F range for treatment.

Feeding a small amount of Pea for constipation- is NOT harmful to the Betta, however, you don't want to feed it as part of the staple since it provides little nutrition due to the short GI tract-

Once he is better we can go over proper care in a half gallon container...

Good luck and keep us posted....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thank you so much. Now I don't have tannins and don't think I can get that anywhere around here, so is it ok to just do the Epson Salts? And do you just get the regular Epson Salt you would use in your own bath?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Just the Epsom salt will help......If you have any Oak trees near by-you can use naturally dried and fallen leaves for the tannins....You can also use either decaf green or black tea to help darken the water for stress-but due to how it is processed it doesn't have the antibacterial/fungal properties.

Epsom salt-(_magnesium sulfate_) is what you want-usually you can find it in most stores that has a pharmacy dept. No added perfumes, dyes...etc....if it has the recipe on Oral intake for humans-it will be fish safe....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Bad news, just went to my only store and no Epson Salt there. I can't get anywhere else til Friday (live in middle of no where and don't drive). ;(


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Dang the luck...no neighbor, family or friends that might have some...Since I am old...I can say this...lol....but us old people sometimes keep it on hand and people that garden usually will have some on hand too...great stuff for the garden too......

Good luck....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

No luck there either. No one I know lives close. Same with neighbors. I have one grocery store I can try but not til tomorrow as they are now closed. Fingers crossed..


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Thats not enough water changes for a half gallon bowl, its just not safe and why take risks, I would change it every day if I were you. I had my Perseus in a half gallon bowl for a week till I got a 5 gallon tank for him and a heater and he loves to explore and swim and so happy I got such a bigger tank for him, better for him and me too as I can watch him better now and having a blast doing so ! Good luck if you need any more help just ask okay and welcome to the forum !


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Great advice your are getting and just saw your post about being old and not driving and living in the middle of nowhere dang that sounds like me too ...lol I am so happy I can order things I need on line, check out wag.com they haves some good buys and of course Walmart.com they some some good tanks that are just plain with no filters for like 12 dollars. Nice to know you and see we have so much in common !


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Perseusmom said:


> Great advice your are getting and just saw your post about being old and not driving and living in the middle of nowhere dang that sounds like me too ...lol I am so happy I can order things I need on line, check out wag.com they haves some good buys and of course Walmart.com they some some good tanks that are just plain with no filters for like 12 dollars. Nice to know you and see we have so much in common !


Being Old?!?!?! Where did I put that?


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Oh gosh I hope I didnt get your mixed up with somebody else sorry if I did ! Hey here is a link to a nice plain tank really seems to be a great deal ! http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312733&findingMethod=rr


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Perseusmom said:


> Oh gosh I hope I didnt get your mixed up with somebody else sorry if I did ! Hey here is a link to a nice plain tank really seems to be a great deal ! http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10312733&findingMethod=rr


Think you may have mixed me up with someone..lol. Great price on that tank, I am in Canada though, and I don't have room for one that big.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok I hope I got the right Epson Salts... does this look right?


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

make sure their unscented. Outside of that they look good. I'd start with a 1tsp per gallon and if that doesn't seem to be working out you can bump it up to 2 tsp and if need be 3 tsp per gallon. 

As with everyone else I really do recommend a bigger tank but you can keep him in the half gallon. It just means near 100% water changes every other day.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks. It doesn't say scented or unscented on it.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

I think its ok then, I would maybe wait for OFL before adding it in just to be sure


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Too late already did the first 25% change. I am following her exact guide minus the tannins because I don't have that. They are unscented I know that now. . Hope and pray this works.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

Well then there was no need for worry. If you want tannins or IAL just to have on hand (I think its beneficial) order some Indian Almond Leaves off of ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amys-50-gra...675?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6828dd1b 

This is Amy, I use her leaves for all my betta's needs. You just put one right in the tank and It'll release the tannins you need. It will make your water a dull brown color but that's normal and bettas like that


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thank you I will look into that.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You have a great advice and i hope your betta will get better.

Just want to say definitely do more water changes for your other 2 bettas in .5 gall. Especially if you are feeding them with flakes. Flakes are so massy and a lot of them probably sink to the bottom while they are eating them. Always remove uneaten food. And I would still try to offer them pellets. A lot of time bettas refusing to eat pellets at the beginning but if you keep offering them, they might eat them eventually. The brands that i think are really good are Aqueon Betta Food; New Life SPECTRUM Betta Formula.
Also make sure when you change the water -new water is approx the same temp +-2-4* as their water. 
Good luck.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

My other Betta luckily enough eats Pellets thank god.

K, full water change one with Epson Salts, now hoping for the best.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

OLF said to lower his water level in the end to make him more comfy. Should I lower his water anymore then this?


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok another question, while I am doing this Epson Salt treatment do I fast him or still feed him?


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

Yup that looks about right, and yes fast him until he poops.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok little confused now, I have him in the premix treatment water but looking back OLF says something about a QT, not sure what that is. Am I not suppose to have him directly in the treatment water?


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

as long as you introduced it slowly you'r ok. I think she meant quarantine him from your other fish or any live plants you have etc


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh god ok thank you, I was scared there for a minute. Since the change to the treatment water he is moving around more then he had all weekend. And he actually looked over at his brother in the tank beside him and did his little mad swim dance he does at him (he doesn't flare tho, never seen this guy flare).


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

good! Signs of improvement, or at least signs of life. Here's hoping he continues his uphill path


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Wow I feel like a proud owner. He just pooped. YAY. Nothing enormous, but a nice bit. He looks a little proud of it too.lol


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If you have access to mosquito larva-I would offer them several times a day.....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> If you have access to mosquito larva-I would offer them several times a day.....


I don't have that at all. We have bats around here that eat every bug in sight..


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

petco or petsmart (i forget which) sells frozen mosquito larva. it's in their freezer with the mice and what not


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

We don't have Petco in Canada and the closest pet store to me is an hour away sadly.. ;(


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

hmmm.... you could put out tubs of water and check them every day until you get some larva in there. If you have mosquitoes then they'll pick out any stagnant water for their eggs.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Well I can give it a try nothing to lose. And my Betta boy is on his second poop in his treatment tank. Yay


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Glad your fish are pooping.


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thank you me too. . Feels kind of silly...


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Happy to hear things are working out for your boy ! I think most of us are silly over our Betta I know I am, had to leave him for a stay over at my sons this weekend for overnight and the next day and I was so on edge worrying if Perseus was okay and of course he was and I was so excited when I got home and he swim over to the edge of his tank looking at me like why did you worry mom I have been fine ...lol


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## Maura (May 13, 2012)

Calypso77 said:


> Think you may have mixed me up with someone..lol. Great price on that tank, I am in Canada though, and I don't have room for one that big.


I have this tank and it's not "that big." It fits on my nightstand with room to spare!


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

I feel like I am being mean to the poor guy. Do I have to wait til he is better to feed him? How long do I fast him before giving him food?


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

if he's pooping good, which from the sounds of it he is, you can give him a pellet or two and see how he does


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok I will try one out. It won't defeat the purpose of his treatment?


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't think so. Maybe wait until tomorrow morning just to be safe. Maybe he has more poops


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok will wait til morning and give him a try with one.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Good idea. If he's pooped then he deserves a pellet. lol


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

This is him this morning, can't even get him to eat a pellet.


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

is that back area, by the tail, swollen? or is it just camera play? If it is swollen that may be a tumor or, would SBD cause the swim bladder to swell? (I'm asking that last part to other peoples not you)

if its not then about all we can do is keep up with the water changes and treatments and hope for the best


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ya it is swollen like looking to me. When he is just floating around that area goes on its side. And I got him to eat but only flakes. They are Tetra BettaMin with color Enhancers.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I wouldn't fast more than a day or so at most.....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

I really don't knw what to do if he is not bounced back by Monday. I leave Monday for 5 days and no one I can get to come in and check on him...


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## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

flakes should be fine, I think I have those around here somewhere... Hmm I OFL would come in handy here again.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

With a .5 g, you really need to change 100% of the water every two days.

edit: oops thought there was only one page. please ignore if this has already been mentioned


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Unless you are grossly over feeding....In a half gallon with a single Betta without filtration or live plants....3-weekly water changes should maintain water quality....2-50% and 1-100%....Too many 100% can stress the fish-Plus too clean can often be as bad as too dirty IMO/E...Betta don't produce the amount of waste/byproduct as some may think-usually what cause more problems with water quality is related more to poor quality food and/or overfeeding....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Is it normal to see no change in him with treatment yet? He is still just lying floating in the same spot. I am getting beyond frustrated. Maybe I'm not meant to be a fish owner. I feel stressed right out and obsessed with checking on him constantly and I feel like I'm going insane.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Don't worry. We've all been at a point where we were stressed over our fish. It'll pass, hang in there.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope your betta will get better. I think you just started to threat him a few days ago , if i am not wrong , so i guess it takes time.
Also make sure you change the water for both bettas before you leave. 

Sorry didn't read all pages but how about frozen daphnia to feed him?


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh ya Sunday I plan 100% water changes for them. Now should I then put this guy back in normal water while I am gone or treatment? I will be adding a piece of Fish Feeder to their tanks so they have some source of food for the week.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think i would change the water and put epsom salt . I would think, since you can use it for long time. Oldfishlady or other people will correct me if i am not right.
 Also about fish feeder, is it safe to use it in small tanks?


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

They say it is safe as long as you remove and clean tank as soon as you get home. I have done it with them before.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Let's wait until other people response and if you don't have time to wait , not sure when you have to leave, sand Oldfishlady pm she will response. 

Is he eating at all?


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

He ate a little of flakes this morning. Other then that he just floats in one spot. If I open the lid tho he swims around some.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Depending on the root cause and if its treatable-it can take several days to start to see any improvement......Don't beat yourself up over it....stuff happens sometimes no matter what we do.......

While you are gone I would keep him in the Epsom salt...its safe to use long term, however, the feeders blocks can sometimes foul the water....


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## EllaFish (Apr 26, 2012)

Oh, please don't tell me you normally feed him every other day..large and infrequent feedings are a great way to NOT feed Bettas. Feed him minimum three times per day, with only as much as he will eat at a time (one piece at a time, wait, gulp, feed, wait, gulp, feed...) The more you spread his food out over the day, the better. Also, try some different foods- frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, blood worms maybe break into small pieces first. In either case you should mix them with a little water so they don't expand too much in his belly.

You should have him in a larger tank, I don't know why it "seemed" to get dirtier faster, but it shouldn't. Make a cover with plastic wrap if you have to. My sister had a really great setup with a divided 5g tank, which saved $$ on heaters. Use white plastic and a 1/8 drill bit, and some silicone glue. Easy peasy DIY divider, custom sized. Filter probably isn't necessary.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You don't want to soak the food in water-this will cause the nutrients and water soluble vitamins to leach out.

Pellets will swell up when you place them in water-but they don't swell up like that in the gut due to the gastric acid and enzymes-they break the food down for digestion....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

He won't touch any food but his flakes. I have tried and he refuses. Right now I think if flakes is all he will eat well at least he is eating something..

I think everyone's take on feeding, keeping Betta's are completely different, my sister has has Betta's forever and keeps them in half gal tanks and feeds Pellets every other day, the one she has right now is almost 4 years old. He is doing great and is perfectly fine in his environment.

Which ever way you do keep your Betta I believe is your preference if it works for you great. 

I am hoping my guy is well on the mend by the time I have to leave but I will make sure I do a 100% clean to fresh treatment water before I go.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

EllaFish said:


> Oh, please don't tell me you normally feed him every other day..large and infrequent feedings are a great way to NOT feed Bettas. Feed him minimum three times per day, with only as much as he will eat at a time (one piece at a time, wait, gulp, feed, wait, gulp, feed...) The more you spread his food out over the day, the better. Also, try some different foods- frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, blood worms maybe break into small pieces first. In either case you should mix them with a little water so they don't expand too much in his belly.
> 
> You should have him in a larger tank, I don't know why it "seemed" to get dirtier faster, but it shouldn't. Make a cover with plastic wrap if you have to. My sister had a really great setup with a divided 5g tank, which saved $$ on heaters. Use white plastic and a 1/8 drill bit, and some silicone glue. Easy peasy DIY divider, custom sized. Filter probably isn't necessary.


Should be careful when you feeding your betta because they don't know how to stop. And sometimes they can get bloated which is not good.

I personally have a few bettas who i think will be about more than 5 years old and i feed 2 pellets in the morning and 2 in the evening. And about 2 times a week give them freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets in the morning. And sometimes i give them cooked shrimp. And i fast them one day a week. They in 2.5 gall tanks. And I have two 5 gall tanks. I

Also i do have a few betta in the office i am working and they in one gall tank. I do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes a week. And actually they fast for 2 days since office closed. One betta is about 3 or 3.5 years old and another abut 1.5 y old.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Lots of different ways/methods to keep this species successfully....


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## Calypso77 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok quick update. Went away last week so my fishy was left in his treatment water and had no food, wasn't sure what I'd be coming home to. Came home he was still with us and still floating on his side. Looked a little skinnier from not eating. I fed him (he ate a few flakes) cleaned his tank and while I was away I bought Bettafix, I thought what do I have to loose at trying that, this poor little guy wasn't getting any better. So I added that to his tank and following the instructions I have been cleaning his tank every other day and adding Bettafix for 6 days today and his eating has improved, he is still floating but no longer on his side and he is pooping a nice bit and also back to fighting me at cupping him which he hasn't done in weeks. I think this Bettafix must be helping some...


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## Chrexis (Apr 9, 2012)

Well if he is improving then I am happy to hear! I look forward to updates on his condition!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh good thank you for update. I am glad he feels better. Be careful with Bettafix. I am glad that it helping it just i read so many different opinions on that. Just make sure you follow the dosage instructions , better to put less dose then put a little bit more...


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