# breeding out agression in bettas



## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

apologies for the hijack this is the new thread.

basic premise of my stance.

we have selectively breed the most colorful long finned anti social bettas possible.

we should now that we have the looks start to breed out the anti social.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

*in the wild fish ...*

in the wild fish get mates by out competing and out advertising thier rivals.

we have many many many years ago replaced natural selection with human selection. we took the choice way from the female betta and instatuted the betta rape stand *dog fight reference*

we have already gone so far away from nature with these fish that we have breed in flaws "swim bladder problems, velvet weaknesses etc."

it is possible to alter a betta behaviour with genetics we have done it so lets undo it. breed the bettas with the calmest disposition.

you won't be losing any color or fin lenght or any thing.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

*wild betta pics*




































as you can see they are far from drab and ugly fish short finned yes but then again these are wild bettas what our splendis came from so if they can come from this into what we have and be made to be more agressive then surely we can tone down thier behaviour and keep the finnage and colors no?


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

But do we want to? Part of what makes the bettas special are their beauty when they flare, the personalities that comes from their aggression. There was a thread on this topic earlier, I'll see if I can find it. Essentially, while it would be a nice idea to think about, we would lose part of the reason we all love bettas.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If you want them to be peaceful...breed your fish in a large tank, remove the female, leave dad with the fry and they should stay peaceful.

Each fish is different, I doubt you could just breed calm fish and make them not aggressive. They've been bred for aggression for the last 800 years, it'll be a while to get it out of them.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=48473

There we go.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

funny thing about betta people they abhore the act of fish fighting and look down at people who intentionally breed bettas improperly and then say

but i need my fish to be agressive so that he has personality.??

and yeah mr. vampire me and you been talking about different methods of how to decresse agression and increase stocking count. and your method demonstrates that nothing but the fight would be lost in the attempt.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

What Mr.Vampire said was correct, however, here (first part- I'm not taking info from here http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=809. Second part- Info I'm using is in here http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=839 )


> the youngsters looked like a pretty drab bunch of solid brown or cambodian fish. It wasn't until the males were jarred that they grew territorial and began flaring at their neighbors; that's when their dynamic color appeared.


 Therefore, it leads one to believe that we colors we love in our bettas would be supressed when and if they were more social, because that super bright coloring is a very good way to impress others and defend the territory, and therefore wouldn't be needed or wanted because they are social (unless it was the alpha male, who would definately be colorful)

Carpenter: we might want to move our little debate over to the other thread. XD


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

This topic always irritates me. If you have a problem with domesticated Betta splendens being aggressive then get another fish! Don't try to act like the fish I love are wrong. There is nothing wrong with Betta the way they are. The reason there are so many health problems and genetic issues is because people either inbreed too much or breed what ever fish they can pick up at their local petsmart, not giving a care to the genetics of the fish. 

Bettas breed the way all bubble nesters breed. Your dog fighting reference has absolutely nothing to do with the point your trying to make.

If you don't like the fact that bettas are aggressive then get guppies. They come in many different colors and can be kept peacefully together. If you like bettas than look into a less aggressive wild species, all are beautiful and unique in their own way.

If you were to breed a non-aggressive betta it wouldn't be the same species as Betta splendens.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

and i do think that the ability to have a large tank filled with many bettas would be worth the effort.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

But in the next generation of breeding the males aren't as aggressive during spawning....shows some potential.

Agree with 1f2f. 

I actually like having jars full of flaring males. Sure it's more work but 100% worth it.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

truethfully the color change and jars came about at the same time. our colorful bettas are flukes that would have died in the wild. we as people said yaay lets take this fish make it fight more and wow look we can change thier colors lets do that i want my champions to be purple all over so every one knows they are mine.

if our splendis behavior were to be moved to the peaceable side you would see a natural flaring and strutting of them durring mating rituals not at every thing.

and the reference was to the rape stand taking the females choice out of the breeding process. just the same as we do by only indroducing one male of our choosing with one female of our choosing. to be more specific it is the same process the plantation owners used with thier slaves.

we have removed all predation and sexual selection from the breeding and species and replaced them with human selection for a few hundred years.

it is not natural for animals in the wild to fight to the death for any reasons other than eating defending offspring and defending it's own life.

the fighting and the display are both unrelated as are the agression and the color.
saying that bettas need to be aggressive to have great colors is like saying all black dogs bite.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Wild bettas do fight. Only mouthbrooders are somewhat peaceful.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

I wouldn't want to make bettas unaggressive. That would be a totally different fish. Part of their charming personalities is the aggression, flaring at stuff and strutting their looks. I'm sure it would go against their very nature. I don't know much about it, but that's just my opinion.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

i know vamp i didn't say that they didn't fight i stated that it wasn't to the death that is all. and generally speaking once a fight is given up by one animal or the other.

generally this is how breeding and sexual selection goes.
1 males fight with males to control either turf or potential mates.
2 females establish a hierarchy or turf.
3 the best males then have to convince the best females to let them have thier fun.

then natural selection kicks in.
1 only proper gene sequences form into a compete organisim.
2 only workable organisims survive child hood.
3 only workable organisims achieve adult hood.
4 only healthy organisims can win fights for turf or dominance.

then it is back to sexual selection.

we as human beings have completely circumvented this process.

step one we get the best most agressive fish to fight each other.
step 2 we get the prettiest of the champions to mate and make pretty ones.

that is it.


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## CjRager89 (Aug 12, 2010)

By breeding them to be non-aggresive you are just as bad for breeding them to be more aggresive. You are selectively breeding them as slaves, dogs and all other things you have compared them to, to change their nature and make them into a community fish when by nature they are not community fish!
I guess that makes florists horrible people when they graft flowers to make prettier ones? And I would hope you dont have a cat or dog either, because they have been bred to be that way too.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

no no no you misunderstand.

my statement is that we have removed nature from the equation. the betta is entirely a human creation. so the argument that we are making them go against thier nature is self defeating. so with the argument against nature gone. there is only a few remaining arguements left for not doing it.
1 i like them like this *personal and valad*
2 it would take too long *a practical question*
3 it would diminish the colors *not so since we controlled the development of the colors*
4 it would remove the flaring *not true since that is part of mating*
5 it would change the breed *mabey a sub-breed possibly but not the breed since identifiers of the breed are physical not behavioral*

and i think that is it and there are the counter points all in one.

personally i love gm corn. pitbulls high yeild produce and our current farming scheme. i am not green at all nor a naturalist. or a hippy. i am not politically correct and i drive a presmog ford truck  *btw it gets 15 mpg which is better than comparable modern models* and i love glowfish i only wish they are available in california.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah, I agree with Cj. You can only mimic nature. You say people are taking natural selection out of the equation. Anyone breeding these fish is taking natural selection out of the equation whether breeding for aggression or passivity. None of us are Mother Nature. 

And you can't compare what breeders do to dogs to how you breed bettas. These fish have a choice. Many of them DON'T breed. We have tons of failures in threads in our breeders forum. There's no way to force a fish to mate. They always choose. You can stack the odds in your favor but you can't physically force them to mate like you're talking about people doing with rape stands. It's nowhere NEAR the same. 

Either way, you're not breeding by natural selection. You can only imagine what nature would intend for these fish in the wild. You don't know what would happen. You don't know what the best traits would be. You only want to see your version of the fish, just like others want to see their version. Neither side is right or wrong, just different.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

+1 for VG and Cj


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

again refer to previous post i never claimed any thing should be natural. i meerly pointed out that nature has been removed from the equation. and no the fish don't have as much of a choice as you are insinuating that they do. basically all females are born with a window in which to reproduce either a number of years to live or a number of fertile years or just a number of eggs. the point is they only have a limited chance to fulfill their need to reproduce. so yeah they may choose to not drop eggs due to an unknown defect seen by her but not by us however we severly reduce what she is exposed to and allowed to breed with at a certain point she will drop the eggs even for a genetically flawed male *proof is bright red bettas and purple etc.* there isn't much of a choice which is why i brought up plantation owners *not to remark about subjectgation but to point out the lack of options* yes the slave ladies could have said no but after a certain point she has to just go with it cuz the alternative becomes worse than the current option.

my statement was since we have been doing it for so long what good factual reason is there to not do it a different way?


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## CjRager89 (Aug 12, 2010)

A betta is the only fish that is not only content but able to absolutly love life alone in a small tank! lol


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

CjRager89 said:


> A betta is the only fish that is not only content but able to absolutly love life alone in a small tank! lol


And to completely train their humans to do what they like. 

I didn't insinuate that they have a choice. They literally have a choice. They mate, or they don't. They choose. Yes, they have a lack of options. I did too, growing up in a small town. I still chose my husband. I turned down quite a few losers before I did. 

Meh, either way it's a personal choice. You like them passive and would like to see a tank full of many of them in different colors. I like to see them alone in their tanks with a complimentary decor. Like I said, neither is wrong. Just different.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

It's possible. I once read a scientific journal where monkeys were bred to be shy.

I think if people have issues with breeding peaceful bettas, then they ought to look closer at what we've already done to Betta Splendens as a species... it's pretty dramatically different from wild type as far as "different" goes when it comes to genetics. 

If you want an aggressive betta, just don't buy a peaceful betta.  But it seems judgmental to me to down other people because they want something different out of their fish.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

starting to get the feeling that this is one of those ideas i am going to be way out in left feild with. 
shoot might take some imbellis and breed the peace then mix in some splendis for colors and tail then sell the infertile hybreeds to the general public so no one else turns a dime off of my work LOL.
just kiding haha.... but seriously naw just kidding .... buutt....


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

carpenter547 said:


> and i do think that the ability to have a large tank filled with many bettas would be worth the effort.


If you dislike the look of imbellis, but like their behavior--why not _start_ with imbellis? There really isn't anything wrong with splendens, in my opinion, they're beautiful and their aggression is part of what makes them desirable to me. Show judges look for a good deportment in splendens for a reason--aggression is what makes these fish who they are. It is their identity and people will be very reluctant to change that despite the allure of keeping a lot of splendens in one tank. 

Theoretically, if you started with imbellis or smaragdina, you could selectively breed them to more docile splendens to get some of their fin and color characteristics--after all, the dragon trait, giant trait, and wild type stripes came from breeding splendens to various wild types. Using imbellis/smaragdina based stock, you'd have a higher probability for success in creating a fancy wild type that can live peacefully in colonies. This makes much more sense to me than trying to undo several hundred years of breeding for aggression. I think people would be very interested in fancy imbellis or smaragdina--if you mixed them with splendens I would definitely start with metallic bettas, such as coppers and dragons, because it would play up the imbellis' stripes. I think it is very important for you to keep the integrity of whatever wild type you choose, though, and keep the influence of splendens as minimal as possible.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I still don't see your point. It's bad that Betta splendens were selectively bred but dogs, horses, cows, chickens, cats, peaceful fish, reptiles, flowers, fruits, vegetables...... all of these are good? Its the same thing. Everything I mentioned has been selectively bred by humans to have the characteristics we want and get rid of the characteristics we don't.

Personally I don't want to see a colony of Betta splendens because to me they would not be the same fish. Just the way I wouldn't want a Doberman Pinscher who loves everyone he meets or a Labrador who doesn't want to swim. 

Starting a new or hybridized species (although I'm generally not about hybridization) would be much better than trying to take a good thing and change it just because you don't like one aspect of it.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

The thing about starting with imbellis or smaragdina would be that it would probably save a lot of betta lives--you'd have to do a lot of experimenting to find "docile" splendens.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

1fish2fish said:


> Just the way I wouldn't want a Doberman Pinscher who loves everyone he meets or a Labrador who doesn't want to swim.


In this case, though, it depends on how the dog was raised... bettas are naturally, instinctively aggressive. My lab HATES water. Cannot STAND it. Does it make his breeder, or he himself a bad example of the breed? No. Just makes him weird 

But if you really want calm bettas, start with bettas that are naturally calmer. The bettas we have now have been bred for too long for the specific goal of being aggressive. To try and change that would be incredibly time-consuming, and would probably fail the minute you tried to introduce new blood to the experiment, reverting back to the aggression, or being killed in breeding.
Whether you want to change the current splendens, or create a new species, it'll still take time. I'd say, if you REALLY, REALLY want calm bettas, try from another calmer species. Otherwise you're not going to get very far...


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Basically Carpenter, trying to breed for calm bettas doesn't make much sense. It'd be time consuming (but then again, isn't line breeding?), and it'd make different bettas that aren't quite like our splendens, and in some ways it could almost be inethical. There are some bettas that are calm (simba was very much so), but in my experience, they lack the spark and little fish giant attitude that many of us like.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Not to nit pick but IMO a dog that doesn't have the correct temperament for his breed isn't a good example of his breed. Not a bad dog, just not something that should be bred. I consider bettas the same way, a non aggressive betta or one with neurosis is not a betta I would breed, regardless of form and finnage.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Imbellis is believed to be the same species as splendens, try smaragdina.

Imbelis
Splendens
Smaragdina

All are aggressive, splendens being the most aggressive.

I agree with what Adastra said, start with imbellis or smaragdina and breed them to dragon splendens...those would some amazing fish!! Even though these crosses have been made to create dragons in the first place lol.

IDK what finnage you'd be able to do, long fins are less aggressive but can damamge the fins more easily. HMPKs might be a good start.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

*the only problem with hybirds is*

the only problems with hybirds is that they can get unpredictable breeding.

if you were to cross splendis and imbellis and trust me i prefer short fined imbellis to splendis and make your own breed you might as well go the rest of the way and patent it and sell only the non fertile generations to main tain your monopoly.

just saying.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Actually hybrids are everywhere...buried deep in the gene pool. Dragon comes from imbellis and splendens crosses. So basicly you already have hybrids everywhere. 

I say just start with imbellis if that's what you like....they have long fin and HMPK versions.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

yeah i know i can't remember the exact source so please don't quote me on this.

the gist of it was yes you can cross splendis and imbellis and he offspring will remain breedable
for about 5 - 6 generations then they will no longer be able to be bred with imbellis or splendis.

i could have read wrong. my statement was refering to that phenomanon if it truely exists.
rather than stating all hybirds won't breed since that would be totally wrong.
however if it is true it presents a great business angle on it right? yup these bettas can
be kept together with each other male and female and you can get them to breed with
each other but none others and the brood size shrinks with each generation. biotech has been spening billions to come up with that in corn LOL and it is free with bettas .

call it common law trademark LOL


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

oh and one last point to make *sorry for the seperate post missed the edit window when i thought of this*
every one whether or not they are going to admit it on this forum *i think elitist posturing similar to e-peen issues* wants to keep more than one male per tank and finds one male per tank less than appealing since there is litterally thousands of thread on this forum dedicated to "what can i keep with my betta". which indicates they are looking for something more and are having issues with the agressive solitary issue of bettas.
so given the same finnage and colors a lack of agression is a universally longed for set up.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

tbh, the idea of multiple males in one tank does NOT appeal to me. Bettas are, imo, center pieces to a tank. Too many of them in one tank would look... crowded, to me. You wouldn't know what to look at, who to focus on. So no, not everyone on this site wants males in the same tank (;


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Actually, no, assuming that everyone wants to keep more than one male betta per tank is wrong. Making assumptions isn't supporting your argument.

I love my fish the way they are. I find more beauty in giving each one a space to call their own instead of lumping them together. In the wild, a male betta would chase another from its territory.. why should that be any different in captivity? 

People spend too much time breeding for the sake of breeding instead of breeding for the betterment of the health of the breed. Making it possible to keep males and females in the same tank? Does this world NEED any more bettas out there? Everyone wants the "better, prettier, I want you this way" betta instead of just accepting the fish the way it is.

I'd rather spend my time and energy teaching people how to properly care of a single betta than breeding a sociable fish so pet stores can have even more rotting away on their shelves. I stopped at the store today to look at tanks.. they had over one hundred cups piled up on several shelves, filled with dying, sick bettas. Why do we need more of that?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

You'll never catch me day dreaming of multiple males in one tank. The only tank mates I keep with Bettas are snails and/or shrimp and the only reason I have those are to help with tank maintenance on planted tanks cleaning up dead plant matter and algae.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I have NO epeen (that is the stupidest term. I feel stupid just typing it). I'm an almost 40 year old married woman. I know how to say what I want and I have zero reason to lie about it.

I do see a lot of those posts but we ALL know about the MFS or MTS thing. You get one, you want another. It's easier to stick more fish in your original tank then get a whole new setup. I don't think it's as much a desire to have male bettas be community fish as it is to get more fishies and get them cheaply. And a LOT of our members are kids who only are allowed so many tanks and want oh so many fish.


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Unfortunately I can't edit my post, but I wanted to add that calling us "elitist" for not "admitting" something that isn't even true is offensive to me and I'm sure rude to others. >.> You might want to be a little more polite with your choice of words. I respect that this thread is about your opinion, but the phrase "elitist" is not a word to be thrown around lightly, and implies that we think we are better than anyone else on this forum, which is not true. We're here to help others care for their fish, not be all high-and-mighty on them because they don't have the same knowledge base.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

wow your right epeen is the lamest term i could think up hence it's use.

the arguement of too many little cups is effectivly solved by creating a peacable species *no matter what lfs care sucks* 

elitist was chosen due to the oft repeated "if you want peaceful bettas go get guppies" which implies that guppies or other peaceful colorful fish are a "lesser" fish for "lesser" fish keepers. same as the statement about submission or overly docile fish. in short all to often *from the out side looking in* betta owner are too wraped up in the bad as rep of thier fish *similar to thugs and pits* again wraping into the epeen statement.

i submit opinions as opinions theories as theories hypothesis as hypothesis. and facts as facts. since nothing i am talking about has been done yet there is alot to theorize about.

i have previously stated my truths facts and opinions and labeled them as such. when i express my opinion it is just that an opinion.

and when i say most people find one male betta per tank to be less than fullfilling i mean just that. not saying literally every one. and i do take into account the useing of cleanning animals in a tank. how ever, glo fish goldfish guppies playties mollies tetras white clouds etc. are not cleaning fish most of them are schooling fish and add to the fullness and visual appeal of the tank.

my statement and opinion is very simple if there were no loss of color or finnage then more people than not *counting new people and those who don't know better* would choose more than one male betta per tank. 

and vay girl i am only 10 years younger than you so please don't assume because i borrowed a youngster term that i am infact a member of the bobble head generation *btw help me start that as a phrase people it is fitting* 

bobble head : this latest crop of children and teenager who spend the whole day with an empty blank look on thier face even their new music is geared tward a bobble head doll LOL.


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, I'm 19, and probably considered a member of your "bobblehead" generation.. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump every teenager in the country into one group. We're just as diverse as your generation, if not moreso. It's hard enough to convince an adult that you're a free-thinking, intelligent human being and not some sort of drugged up zombie without more stereotypes to go around.

Anyway, back to the fish, the topic of this thread. I still don't see how a more docile species means less cups on the shelf.. bettas will always be marketed as a fish that could live in a cup of water. People who don't do their research and don't know any better will always buy tiny "betta bowls" and continue to keep fish in conditions that are barely habitable. More fish die, new fish are needed to replace the dead ones. As long as people are purchasing fish and making stores money, there will always, always be fish crammed into poor conditions. Fish in poor conditions become either lethargic or territorial, and the cycle of an aggressive fish continues.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

*reply to you *



Capricorn said:


> Well, I'm 19, and probably considered a member of your "bobblehead" generation.. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump every teenager in the country into one group. We're just as diverse as your generation, if not moreso. It's hard enough to convince an adult that you're a free-thinking, intelligent human being and not some sort of drugged up zombie without more stereotypes to go around.
> _*the above statement removes you from that gereralization  i was talking about the ones i described "vacant stare" ment no offence to any one capable of taking offence. but then again being able to take offence removes you from that group.*_
> 
> Anyway, back to the fish, the topic of this thread. I still don't see how a more docile species means less cups on the shelf.. bettas will always be marketed as a fish that could live in a cup of water. People who don't do their research and don't know any better will always buy tiny "betta bowls" and continue to keep fish in conditions that are barely habitable. More fish die, new fish are needed to replace the dead ones. As long as people are purchasing fish and making stores money, there will always, always be fish crammed into poor conditions. Fish in poor conditions become either lethargic or territorial, and the cycle of an aggressive fish continues.


the simple logic of my theory is:
the fish in tanks are messed with less as they tend to be locked.
the fish stock could be kepted in a tank *large but possible*
where as fish in cups:
routinely messed with by people.
are unlocked
takes multiple water changes and more time.
are waay less healthy even by lfs standards.

right now 50 new bettas means 50 new cups to watch clean store etc.
where as a non agressive one *even if you need a large tank at home* with out the attack guppies and long finned fish trait could be distributed through out the tanks with other fish ie:
2 -3 in guppy tank males 
2 -3 in guppy females
2 -3 in danios 
2-3 in mollies 
2-3 in playtie
etc. in theory already found non cup homes for 9 and that is just off of memory of local sock selection. so there is in theory a practical and useful application. 
also if they don't fight and are in cups it removes inventory losses due to fight club posers bs. 
further it means a faster moving healthier stock when being sold to the non betta afficionado. lets face it even a 10 gallon tank isn't over stocked with 4 bettas in it and it would give ALOT of visual appeal to those new to the fish keeping world.

again my opinion at least there is logic involved.

ps my oldest daugher is only 5 years younger than you


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

The only thing I could see happening is them shoving more bettas into the same sized container.... No matter what, they'll never lose the "mud puddle" myth that comes with them.
Since they do so well in small tanks, and if they're also compatible with others, then another betta in there wouldn't hurt, right??? /sarcasm.
Don't forget that the majority of the public is severely under informed about bettas and their health care required. More than likely what they'd do is just shove more and more bettas into the same tanks that used to house only one.
Also, when they lose the aggressiveness, people would stick them in with all KINDS of fish, ignoring the fact that often, Bettas are nipped by other species. Bettas can't be placed just anywhere, aggressive or not. Their long fins demand special care when it comes to choosing tank mates. 


And as a member of the "bobble head generation", I'd suggest not flinging that term around. No matter who you meant it to, calling it "generation" means you included everyone. Saying "bobble headed kids" would've been less antagonistic. Keep in mind that the majority of people on this site BELONG to the "bobble head generation". Many, many of us are under the age of 20, most being around the 11-16 age range...


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

^ +1


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

yeah prolly right about the bobble head kid thing  *still maintain the phrase should be adopted *

it may well happen the way you state it may. however if you breed enough selectivley to get to to be reconized as a seperate sub breed then you could do what was done with the glofish http://www.glofish.com/ where in you own the animal. in which case you could specify stocking and display requirements for your product ala planagram simmilar to how budwiser and general mills do with thier products. in which you would stipulate that your www.care.com be listed on the speices identification card along with information you require. most people do read and follow those as a general rule. on said card you could state "these are not wild fish they have been slectively breed to live with each other in a tank size of *lets say* 20 gallons. and while they aren't agressive with other breeds you must select fish that won't nip thier long fins. temperature 75 - 82 degrees feed them betta flakes or pellets for care info log on to www.peacefully-splendid_betta.com" or some such.

at least this is the theory. and yes i know that information is available online for betta currently but it isn't posted in the store and the store employees are way misinformed so people see small tanks with bettas in them and little cups with no heater and airstone and buy first think second or even ask and get the wrong ansers. a species id card like all the other fish have would go a long way even with reg bettas.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow. what a thread! I'm sorry I missed it until now. I'll put my 2 cents worth in. I like my bettas the way they are and wouldn't change them for anything.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

IMO bettas can be a little more work with all the jars...but thats what big tanks and tank dividers were made for LOL.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

btw vamp how much will you be charging for your stock when you start selling them. i would love love love a beutiful tank with vibrant fem sorority in it *for aestetics not breeding* and your newest brood is all short finned no? 
i just saw your sig


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Wow people. Is it illegal to have an opinion here? someone says it would be neat to have multiple bettas coexist and everyone jumps the bandwagon on how it is unethical, immoral, un-natural etc...

A peaceful betta would indeed be something to see. Hey, I wouldnt mind getting 3 or 4 for my 10 gallon.

I think there are a few ways to go about it. You may try to create hybrids but of course this will take time. I have a feeling that a much quicker result MAY be possible in biotech. Of course, there is no initiative to the general public, and its going to be expensive, but If a biotech company really wanted to they could probably do it using GM techniques. 

To all the haters: Realize that every domesticated animal on the face of this planet is "man made" and therefore un-natural. Betta's aren't any different. Go dump a betta in a rice paddy in thailand and see how it goes. 

Sorry for the rant but it really irritates me to see everyone flock together like sheep and get all defensive because someone dares to have an opinion that isnt in line with yours.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Which reminds me... please have respect for the opinions of others, even if you don't agree with it.


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## carpenter547 (Sep 18, 2010)

wow only took 50 posts for a mod to say that hmm...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I love threads like this. And it gets better ..... I'm not in favor of any since I believe both are sensible ... from their own stand point.

Of all bettas, splendens are the most aggressive. But in the wild they are not as aggressive as the domesticated ones. This is because no one separates older/larger from younger/smaller (IMO not because they were selectively bred to be aggressive). What ever animal will have poor mentality if they were intimidated since young. 

Yes people use "winners" as breeders. But if the offspring were left with the adult, they will become "losers". So attitude is "planted" by isolating each male since a very young age, building up his self esteem to the maximum. And "death fights" are IMO staged by using rather deep containers. Otherwise the loser would only run. 

So, IMO, it's possible to create docile splendens. And these would still show glamorous colors. You don't have to introduce other species to achieve this. But then again, do we want them to be as such? Without serious fraring, they don't spread their fins to the fullest and there fore lose their form beauty. Further more, most of the time, these docile males will at some point flare and bite thus may have torn fins. So it all depends on personal preference.


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## fishfishfishfishfish (Aug 23, 2018)

*I made non-agressive bettas*

A while ago I went to the pet store and bought a butterfly male betta to see if it would breed with my 1-eyed koi female betta. I put them in a 29-gallon tank together and a week later we had betta fry swimming around. I removed the male betta and replaced it with 5 of my most well-behaved guppies, platies, and mollies when the fry got a little bigger. When the baby bettas were 4-5 weeks old, I moved them to a well-planted 55-gallon tank. I also put in about 10 guppies and a bunch of neon tetras in the tank, as well as their mother. I started to notice a few of them start to get aggressive towards others, so I removed them from the tank and kept all the rest of them together. After a few months passed, only a few more became aggressive or territorial. Most bettas in the tank ignored each other and after 14 months, the only bettas I have had to take out are ones with deformities or illness, with the exception of only a few. I rarely ever see bettas flaring at each other and the only time they get aggressive is during feeding time.


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