# aggressive female



## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

hey guys, well today as i was conditioning my pair I noticed both fish showing good confidence and all which was good but my female may have been abit too confident. I let my male ( who is about standard in terms of aggression ) into the females tank to see how they react to eachother ( Doing this worked wonders for my last pair ) and my female came flying up to my male both were doing the s shape swimming thing when suddenly the female decides to strike my male and he quite suprisingly just took off with her in pursuit. After this i thought maybe putting a larger more aggressive male in with her to teach her a lesson might help but instead they went at eachother like two males would for about five minutes. No fish got barely any injuries but i was just wondering how to combat females like this as i really want to breed her but i dont know how to with her sort of character. Yes, she definately is a female,ovipositor,vertical stripes ect. Any help is appreciated


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Are you sure she is a she? Females have been known to "sucker" bite, but they won't fight it out with male. And usually females do that against more docile males . . . yes one in so many would tear males to shreads. So make sure you have a female.

A member with similar problem bred hers to an aggressive male in a small container. The pair concentrated more on breeding. This case was the first I came across with in the last 15 yrs.

So, first make sure your female is really a female.
If she is, breed to an aggressive male in a smaller tank.
Make sure both are in breeding mode before you release the pair.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

She could also be protecting her territory if it's her own tank. My female attacks everything that comes into her tank (shrimp, snails, guppies, etc).


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

thanks guys. shes definately a she as she dropped her own eggs in her own bubblenest today.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Oh man, I guess she just didn't like those males.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> shes definately a she as she dropped her own eggs in her own bubblenest today.


I have a female like that and she is super aggressive.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I have a large, part giant Marble PK female that is crazy! I really only have about three males to put her with that I feel would create good off spring and so far she has chased, bitten and took over the nest of two.... I was thinking of trying a smaller tank or a 5 gallon bucket. Both times they where both conditioned and they seemed to be taking to each other. I even (both times) kept her in a 1/2 gallon inside the ten gallon and let the free swim so he could make his nest but could still see her. I let her out and they would wiggle side by side, chase one another, then she would get super nasty and bit their sides and take chunks out of the dorsal and anal fin! I was thinking about trying the second male with her again in a week or two once they have been reconditioned soon and he relaxes a bit. He seems ok, just some bit marks.... She red with heavy white/ light blue marbling all over her body( a lot are dragon scales) and I can never seen breeding stripes or stress lines..... She is definitely a she has I can see and egg spot clearly. I have really tired to "over feed" her to clam her down, but it hasn't seemed to work. I have one LARGE part giant blue/yellow/black koi PK that I can try, but I'm not a fan of his spoon head and small dorsal fin and really thick body  If anyone has any other options, I'm sure Plakatmasta and I would be very grateful! PS, my female is larger then both males I have tried and is bigger then ALL my males, minus the Giant koi PK. My males are all normal size, bodies around 1 and 3/4 inch to 2 inches and ( the ones I tried to breed with her) are over 6 months, she is about 6 months.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

One way of manipulating breeding is by making them "fight". . . flare daily for an hour or longer. Use cards to divide them. Either make a small hole in the center (training for show) or lift the card about 2 inches they can rest when not in sight of each other. This should reduce possible stress.

This is usually effective for regular bettas. Unfortunately it's harder to manipulate giants. Some giant females will never breed once they reach 5.5cm (a little over 2 inches). It might be a character thing, not sure. 

Wiggle side by side sounds like fighting. If a female is in fighting mode, she will be more confident when the male ( in breeding mode) swims away. Female must acknowledge and accept the male when she is released for this pairing to work.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I think she may just be to aggressive, she is very large. She seemed submissive to the one male ( first one) when they saw each other in separate tanks anyway. she would lower her head at him but once they where in the breeding tank, she seemed to get to confident. I'll try cutting a whole in the cards that separate them. I usually let them see each other about an hour a day, but i'll try that as well, that way they can sometimes see each other when i'm not home as we'll. Thank yoU!


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

I did the same thing again an there was less fighting and more of showing off sort of stuff but more from the female than the male. She still postures up to fight doesnt really bite as much anymore. She just circles the male and stop start swims around the tank.


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

i spoke to sson shes back at it again.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

We have a problem lol How big is your female? Im wondering is mine is just "to big" and only wants to fight ( as indjo has mentioned)


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I am reconditioning her and going to try another male..... Sometimes, when the male would approach, she could charge the glass ( when he was loose in breeding tank and she was jarred).... ugh very stressful..... she's the one i really want to breed. i have two others that are ok, but I really like her spread ( and color!) lol she hits 180. I have beed conditioning ( food wise) two others girls and two other males, so if this doesn't work, i may just clean out the breeding tank and try another pair


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

If what I suggested failed, try isolating the female for about a week. Keep her well fed as usual with nutritious food. Then start flaring her to another female - about 15 to 30 minutes. If possible to a flirting female. After 5-7 days, try flaring to a flirting male. . . it would be better if male had different color to the sparring Betta. If she shows the slightest breeding interest, immediately release her. But keep a close eye on them as she might resume fighting mode. If she still remains flirting or submissive after 30 minutes, let them be.

Make sure you use an active young male that can remain active for days.

If you have any other ideas, try them. There is no fixed method to manipulate this species - that's what I did through the years (trial and error) until I find something that works.

Good luck.


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks guys my female is tiny only about 2.2 inches including fins my male is about 2.7 inches so theyre both small fish. Thanks heaps for the advice indjo.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Thank yoU! can can try it this pairing do not work. Right now I have her in a 1/2 gallon cube inside the breeding tank with the male loose. Temp is 80-82. she eats about 10-12 frozen (thawed though) bloodworms a day 5 or 6 in AM 5 or in 6PM, if I am home from work at an earlier time, I feed her ( and the male) a lunch of a few bloodworms, then a dinner of a few as well. Male is eating about 3 blood worms per meal, that seems to be his limit. He has made his nest but when he swims up to her cube, she flares at him and swims back and forth along the cube, sometimes she darts back and forth very fast, then he some times swims away, some times he shows off a bit longer. he last two times I tried to breed her, I had her and the male next to each other in separate tanks and only let them see each other for a hour a day for two weeks, then put them in the breeding tank ( her in the cube and him loose) for two days, then let her out, so I'm going a bit of a new route here. I'm hoping I see signs of her submitting but so far its a now. I can't see any breeding or stress lines due to her coloring....she has heavy dragon scales of white and blue all over her body  I'll have to get a good pic, the one "good" pic I have of her makes her look like she has an ugly body lol 




indjo said:


> If what I suggested failed, try isolating the female for about a week. Keep her well fed as usual with nutritious food. Then start flaring her to another female - about 15 to 30 minutes. If possible to a flirting female. After 5-7 days, try flaring to a flirting male. . . it would be better if male had different color to the sparring Betta. If she shows the slightest breeding interest, immediately release her. But keep a close eye on them as she might resume fighting mode. If she still remains flirting or submissive after 30 minutes, let them be.
> 
> Make sure you use an active young male that can remain active for days.
> 
> ...


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

well we have some progress. I tried letting them see eachother all day for about 3 days and seems to have worked. She is submissive to him now and he seems to have built up his confidence around her but he seems to want to fight/ not much breeding behaviour, Any tips on how to get him into breeding mode?


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

You might try some Barry White gently playing in the background a few candles nice bottle of wine.

Try this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0I6mhZ5wMw


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

LOL my husband said the same thing :|
Or "lets get it ooonnnn"
I could go for some wine after dealing with my fish drama!!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Lol. That should set the mood.

Try isolating for a few days, then flare regularly after feeding - each to the same sex (if possible). They should return to breeding mode in a few days (specially male). 

Susie: I wish my bettas can eat so little and stay healthy. My regulars can eat 10-20 frozen bloodworms. 4cm bodies can eat 20-30 and more, 5cm and above can eat over 40 . . . . if I let them. Constant bloating (full belly) kills them in the long run.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Indjo: I feed mine till they stop eating. Thats nuts!! I thought she was eating a lot! This morning she ate 7 in the one sitting lol These are pretty big blood worms, over have and inch, some are almost an inch. I get worried about over feeding my normal ones that I'm not trying to condition, so they get 3 per meal, some don't even eat the third and I have to get the turkey baster and suck it out lol. Some will eat freeze dried luckily, it takes less time lol I'm going to see how my pair looks this evening, if she still is super nasty, I'm going to isolate, flare to my largest female and go from there! ugh...These little buggers! I have another pair conditioning now and have been for about a week ( food wise) and I just placed them next to each other today to see what they do. If the other pair still will not spawn after isolation, I'll clean out the breeding tank and try the other pair. maybe if I'm lucky I'll have to pairs of fry to raise  I have a sterlite tub, extra plants and heater and sponge filter I was thinking of setting up anyway


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Well, I guess I shouldn't say as much as they want, more like until they stop going nuts over the food. Most only eat 3 bloodworms at a time, the only one who gets a little more are my half giants, they eat 4-5. None have swim blaster issues or every had. And from what I have seen on here, people feed way more then me


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

PlakatMasta, if at any time you'd like me to start my own thread, please let me know! lol I feel like I hijacked your thread :question: 
Here are some (bad) pictures lol They where dancing at each other under the nest, chasing and such but nothing to exciting. 
View attachment 674649

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But as you can see, I can't see any kind of horizontal (or vertical )lines on her. Unless someone else can


Over the night I check in a few times, they seemed to be sleeping... One at one end, one at the other lol

This morning she is being pretty still, head down a lot. He is moving super slow around her, full flare, he'll till tilt over her in full flare and he will nip her a little bit and chase. They are under the nest and just being weird :roll: It's odd, he will go almost vertically over her flaring then go back to her side. Maybe he is trying to figure out what he needs to do. I'm still iffy on their spawning mannerisms and I can't seem to find a good youtube video. Most are of them chasing a bit, then cut to the embrace. I need the funky stuff they do in-between


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

here are picture from this morning, just they aren't under the nest in these pictures, but this is what he is doing
View attachment 674681


View attachment 674689


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View attachment 674705

Gosh her I just love her color, she so pretty! He's not bad either. I can only imagine I'd get a least good colored fry lol


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

She seems to be responding to the male. If she remains like that (vibrant color but submissive), let them be. They should eventually spawn.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks again! you are very helpful! Her color is great! She really doesn't seem to stressed and only has a few nips to her fins and he has none which is a huge improvement them her previous boyfriends! They are a bit more lively at the moment


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

SusieG said:


> I can't seem to find a good youtube video. Most are of them chasing a bit, then cut to the embrace. I need the funky stuff they do in-between


You can't find, because there aren't any.  There is almost nothing "in-between". Out of the blue, female takes her chances and decides to go under the male's nest in a submissive manner.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I now have baby Betta eggs!!!!! I went to the food store and came home and they were trying it! It was a sloppy mess lol very cute! About two hours later it looks like I have about 100 eggs. They ate a lot!!! She would release about 30 at a time. She even put some in the nest her self! Thank you all for your help!!! I'll be starting a log


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

Glad to hear. Don't forget to put "in-between" movies too. :lol:


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Congratulations!!!

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I wouldn't start a log just yet. Wait til fry are free swimming. You see getting them to spawn is the easiest part. . . . well maybe not for you. Anyway, you don't know if the eggs were fertilized or not, nor do you know if male is a good daddy. So keep your fingers crossed until fry are free swimming. And one more thing; I know you're excited and all, but avoid disturbing the male too much because it may induce egg/fry eating.

Good luck!!!


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I have left them be  LOL I work all day so I can't bug them to much lol I'll start a log once they are swimming....I hope I'm a good fishy mom. I've been reading like crazy about spawning/fry for months now, but now that the time is here, you start second guessing everything you've learned lol


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Good luck! Those are stunning parent fish, so I wouldn't be surprised if you get a lot of good colors on the fry, too.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

The bubble nest desolved  its OK though, bow that I know they are a willing pair, I'm going to try again in two weeks, as long as they look OK. Jaws released all the " left over" eggs and omg!!! She made a tiny nest and put several hundred of them clumped together in it lol should have let he raise the fry  she didn't eat the first day after, but I'm sure she was stuffed with eggs! She's eating and looking great now! Male wouldn't eat but I'm sure he too has many eggs in his belly. Wait no, he did eat one BW, that's right lol but I'm going to clean out the tank and try again. I think he got distracted by the amount of room he had...10g with about 5 inches of water. My pitbull where also playing rope toy tug of war in the room when I got home....silly dogs! So I'll have to keep them out and I'll card off all around the tank so he can't see. He couldn't see any other fish, just around the bedroom...and the pittys. I let my nale see Jaws again for a few minutes after I took him out once I saw the nest distroyed and the eggs at the bottum, he seemed happy to see her lol and made a new nest in his tank :face palm: I just read last night about artificial hatching, but im pretty sure it was to late, about 36 hours and the near was probably dissolved for about 10. Should I let Jaws and my male see each other for a little bit each day til I go to put them back in the spawning tank ( like last time, keep her in the cube inside the tank and let him swim free) or should I not let them see each other at all for two weeks( as long as they look OK anyway), then reintroduce them ( the same way as before) in the spawning tank?


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

Sorry to hear that susie, I just added mine to the spawn tank and all seems to be going well so far female has changed alot from thats super agressive almost manly fish to a submissive female. Thanks again everyone for the help.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

YAY!!!! Thats great to hear!! Keep us updated on the spawn! Do you have pictures of them? I'd love too see


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

It's best to keep breeders isolated. You can flare them regularly for about 5-15 minutes as long as none stress. Hopefully if they are well fed, they will always be ready to breed.


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