# Help! Severe respiratory distress!



## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

My male has a pellet caught in his gills. His gills are completely inflamed, he is respiring heavily, and he is struggling to reach the surface. Photo coming.

What can I do to help him?!


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## CaseyA (May 2, 2012)

ClassicCharm said:


> My male has a pellet caught in his gills. His gills are completely inflamed, he is respiring heavily, and he is struggling to reach the surface. Photo coming.
> 
> What can I do to help him?!


Find a clean mason jar, the kind used for canning, or perhaps even a clean bowl, and put him in it with just enough water to cover his body. That way he can breathe from the surface without having to swim up to it. 

I have no idea what to use for pellets in gills. Someone will be along soon to answer that part, but get him in a shallow container so he can breathe without struggling. His immediate life-threatening situation is not being able to reach the surface of the water to get air.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

I've got him in a cup in clean shallow water. I moved him from his tank into a cup during cleaning, and I fed him while he was in there and that's when it got stuck. I almost think it would be better to put him back in his tank where he has something to rub on to dislodge it?

Gah, I can't get my stupid phone to upload to this site for a photo.


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## CaseyA (May 2, 2012)

ClassicCharm said:


> I've got him in a cup in clean shallow water. I moved him from his tank into a cup during cleaning, and I fed him while he was in there and that's when it got stuck. I almost think it would be better to put him back in his tank where he has something to rub on to dislodge it?
> 
> Gah, I can't get my stupid phone to upload to this site for a photo.


If you put him back in the tank watch him like a hawk. If he can't get to the surface to breathe you're going to have to get him out of there and back in the shallow water so he doesn't drown. I've read that they will drown in as little as two hours.

He may well dislodge the pellet while in the tank but given the issue he may need some Epsom salts to aid in healing. Assuming, of course, that he can reach the surface.

Good luck! I can't image how you're feeling. It's like, how do I do surgery on a betta?


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

There it is. It's stuck right at the front. I've taken even more water out of the cup now. He's leaning against the side of the cup now and "panting" heavily, both with his gills and his mouth. Maybe I could put something in the cup for him to rub against?


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## CaseyA (May 2, 2012)

ClassicCharm said:


> There it is. It's stuck right at the front. I've taken even more water out of the cup now. He's leaning against the side of the cup now and "panting" heavily, both with his gills and his mouth. Maybe I could put something in the cup for him to rub against?


If you have some gravel to add to the cup it couldn't hurt. Is he getting surface air? If not, take some water out so he can get to it.

Is the pellet in a place where you could grab it with a pair of tweezers? It would be touchy, but if he's having that much trouble you may have to do it.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

He is getting air, he's just getting tired. Added a little pile of gravel to the cup so hopefully he'll scratch against it. 

I don't think I could get to it simply because he's struggling to swim- there's no room to get underneath him. Otherwise I would try tweezers.


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## CaseyA (May 2, 2012)

ClassicCharm said:


> He is getting air, he's just getting tired. Added a little pile of gravel to the cup so hopefully he'll scratch against it.
> 
> I don't think I could get to it simply because he's struggling to swim- there's no room to get underneath him. Otherwise I would try tweezers.


Oh gosh, I hope OldFishLady and the other experienced owners come in soon! I'm sure they know how to help him get the pellet out.

Fingers crossed for both of you.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I PMed you too but here's a quick follow up on my advice: Since bettas can breathe regular air, he won't suffocate so take all the time you need. If he flips around too much, you might try sedating him with a diluted drop of clove oil before you remove him from the water. If you do use clove oil, it would be like one tiny drop in a liter of water and then add a drop of that mixture to his tank. Let him get kind of sluggish and then remove him and place him on the damp paper towel. If you have someone to help you hold him, that would be great so you can focus on getting the pellet out.

Worst comes to worst, the pellet is designed to break down after time and it should eventually disintegrate. My only worry is what kind of damage to his gills he'll have if it comes to that. :/

Good luck!

EDIT: Once you put him back in the tank, add 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon and if you have it, Stress Coat. You'll want him to get lots of slime coat to to cover his inflamed gills and to replace the slime he'll lose when you handle him.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Any alternative to clove oil as a sedative? I don't have any but he's a goon so I feel like he's going to flip around like a mad man and a sedative would be helpful. 

If he is quiet, are fingers my best option for removal, or is it safe to use something else? I'm thinking the rubber-coated end of a bobby pin. I have a steady hand, I promise. 

Yes, I can see that it's starting to darken and get softer, but I'm worried that some parts will fall off and others get stuck in there more. 

Thank you so much for your help. Veterinary emergencies with fish are by far the most stressful.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Offhand, i really can't think of any other kind of sedative other than clove oil.  If you feel confident in your steady hand, then use whatever you need to remove the pellet. 

EDIT: Think of it as a game of Operation. Try not to touch anything but the pellet or the buzzer will go off.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Sakura8 said:


> Offhand, i really can't think of any other kind of sedative other than clove oil.  If you feel confident in your steady hand, then use whatever you need to remove the pellet.
> 
> EDIT: Think of it as a game of Operation. Try not to touch anything but the pellet or the buzzer will go off.


It's not a pellet. 
It's a large area of inflammation. Almost looks like a hematoma. 
And now I've poked at it and messed around with his slime coat.

I made a box out of wet paper towel to stabilize him and managed to get him almost on his back so I could look at it closer and touch it a bit. Now I'm even more worried.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Does it look like it might be a parasite?


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

I don't think so, unless it's internal and HUGE. I haven't dealt much with fish parasites though, excepting Ich and those that present in poop haha. 

He's falling off to the side now when he's laying on the bottom of his cup. I'm going to try to upload another photo so you can see it better. It's light brown like a pellet, but when I was looking at it, there was no physical distinction between its edges and the edges of his gills, which are the dark red-brown.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)




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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Could be the beginnings of a tumor or an abscess.  How long has he had his respiratory distress? Did it just suddenly start?

I was wondering if it was a gill fluke, as some can get big enough to be seen by the naked eye.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Whatever it is, it and I are wearing him out fast. Should I put him in salt to help drain it if it is an abscess? 

I believe it started tonight, but I'm not 100% on that. I was out of the house all day today at work, and when I got home I cupped him and fed him, which makes him huff and puff. He huffs and puffs a lot anyway, he's just that kind of guy. 

What would a gill fluke look like? If this is a parasite, it's IN his gills.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It would move, for one thing. Beyond that, I'm not sure. This is supposedly what it would look like. But if the distress only just started, I'm thinking it's probably not that. He would have had a lot of them and the respiratory distress would have started a while ago. Probably along with rubbing and darting.










EDIT: Go ahead and put him in 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon with any Stress Coat to stabilize and calm him down. Maybe leave him like that for a day or so.

If it's an internal abscess, then we'll want to switch him to epsom salt once he's built back up some slime coat. But I'm not sure. The epsom salt will reduce the swelling but I'm not sure it will drain the actual fluid out. Only popping the abscess would do that and if that happens, we run the risk of infection.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

I don't think that's what's going on here. Though symptom-wise, it would be hard to say. He's just a fusspot! He has always darted, rubbed, tail-bitten, all that stuff. He shares a divided tank though, so I suspect if it were something in the water, I'd see symptoms in the boy in the other side, and he's perfectly fine. 

That I will do. Is he better off in his cup floating in the heated tank, or should I leave him out and cover the cup so it's dark?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If he's having trouble breathing, it's probably best to keep him floating in his cup so he's closer to the surface. I also went ahead and PMed DarkMoon17 about this so hopefully she can chime in with her veterinary experience. I hope the little fellow does okay through the night.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

He'll stay in his cup for sure- I just wasn't sure if the cup should be in the tank for warmth or out of it to reduce stimulation. 

Thank you. I've had great help from DarkMoon before 

I really hope he does alright, though he's not looking very good right now. I really love this guy, he has such a goofy personality. 

Thanks so much for your help tonight, I really appreciate it!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I think floating will be best. I'd worry about his immune system crashing if he got too cold.

You're welcome. I'm sorry it wasn't just a pellet that you could easily dislodge.  You're doing a great job though and I'm sure he has the best chance possible in your care.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks. I'll update in the morning. 

Jeez, I didn't even finish my tank changes and it's 2am. Guess the girls will have to live in their cups overnight :S


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Fishy emergencies can sure throw a monkey wrench in things.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Ugh. I lost one of my older girls today too. Not fun.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  It wasn't Alice, was it? Blue cambos are so hard to find and she's so pretty.

You've had a rough day, haven't you?


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

It sure was!! She developed problems with chronic constipation, and despite regular epsom salt treatments and feeding her frozen-thawed bloodworms one at a time for several months, she died some time today trying to pass her poo. Makes me sad that she suffered  She was so fat and sassy. I find that with my females, when I've had a few together for a long time, when one goes they all go. The bunch that are all the same age that included Alice has lost three total in the past two months- two of old age and now Alice. 

Sure have. Mac is in aq salt in his cup in the tank. He's getting up for air so I'm happy about that. I really need to get some sleep though :S


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, you've had a long day. I'm sorry about beautiful Alice and I sure hope Mac pulls through. Night!


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Mac seems about the same as last night. He's feisty- still getting up for air, but his gills are still very inflamed and he has a hard time staying upright. Changed the water in his cup- sticking with 1tsp of Aq salt/gallon


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope he will get better


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## CaseyA (May 2, 2012)

Oh no, Classic. I hope Mac is better soon!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Let me know when you plan to change to epsom salt. I haven't heard back from DarkMoon but to be fair, this is finals time for her.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Should I change to epsom salt? Why would I do that?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The only reason I would suggest changing to epsom salt somewhere down the road is to control the swelling and inflammation. If he's doing all right in AQ salt, then definitely let's leave him in that and not upset his little boat any more.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Still no change, though I think he looks more swollen. 

He's in such a tiny amount of water that I'm changing it twice a day anyways. I like your logic- he'll go into epsom salt tomorrow morning.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

I hope he gets better, I've been following this thread for a little while but never had any input because I didn't know what to tell you to do to help him.. I hope he feels better soon. It's always a scary situation when you don't know what to do to make them feel better <3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hey ClassicCharm, how is he doing?

I heard back from DarkMoon. She says it is most likely a hematoma caused by some kind of trauma to the gill, such as a gill fluke. In cases like these, she says the hematoma will either reabsorb on its own or, in larger animals, it would be lanced and drained. Since this isn't possible with a betta, she suggests epsom salt and hope for the best.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Hey! Thanks so much!

So I was right about it being a hematoma, eh? Can we tell that to the vet school admissions committee who just rejected me? 

More importantly: There has been absolutely no change in Mac. I've been keeping him in Epsom salts 1tsp/ gallon in his cup. He's still labouring with his gills, but he's not as lethargic as before. It almost seems like he wants to swim around but his head is too heavy . Do you think an increase in the salt concentration might help him at all? I'm not sure what the upper limit of safe is with regard to epsom salts. 

If this was caused by a gill fluke:

Where would that have come from?
Would there be more of them in the water?
How can I get rid of it/them?
Should I be concerned for Mac's tankmate? He shares a divided 5 gallon with another male betta, who appears to be perfectly fine. 

Thanks again for all your help Sakura. I've been getting to the point the last couple of days wondering if euthanasia is the next step for the poor guy. It being a hematoma gives me a little more confidence to keep trying but I don't want him to suffer.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Classic. Awww, I'm sorry you were rejected by a vet school. 

Gill flukes, like most pathogens and bacteria, are probably in the tank and on the fish in small quantities. It's only when something stresses the fish out that these pests become a problem. DarkMoon suggested it just because in most cases of gill irritation, gill flukes are the first culprit. But to be honest, I doubt it was a fluke because I think a fluke big enough to cause this damage would be big enough to be seen. I think it must have been something else, a speck of dirt or even a food particle, that irritated his gill and caused it to abscess like that. His tankmate should be just fine, especially if he is healthy and strong.

You can safely go up to 3 tsps of epsom salt per gallon. It *probably* is safe to go up to 4 tsps but I've never tried it. He can also stay in epsom salts as long as he needs to. DarkMoon never said how long it might take if the hematoma is going to reabsorb. I imagine it could be anywhere from weeks to months. I think usually a severe hematoma would be lanced by now, if it had occurred in a mammal or even a larger fish.

Do you have any Indian Almond Leaf? The antibacterial properties in its tannins might help keep Mac comfortable. I ordered 20grams of grade C leaves from Amy Lim on eBay for $20 or so (shipping included). Bad news is it takes a month for it to come from Singapore. If you have any oak trees around, you can use naturally dried and clean leaves to the same effect.

As far as Mac's quality of life, it's up to you. You know him best and you'll know when he's reached his limit. I know, it's really hard when they seem to be suffering and there doesn't seem to be a cure. I have a boy going through the same thing right now so I totally know how you feel. You give Mac as much as time as you think is right. 

If I come across any new tips or info, I'll be sure to let you know.


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## JennybugJennifer (Apr 16, 2012)

I hope Mac pulls through!!!
It's hard for babies of any size or species to be sick 
Question: how is eauthinasea performed for Bettas? I'm curious because I'd never heard of such a thing. I work in small animal as a vet tech but not with specialty pets


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

You use Clove Oil, small amounts at first until the fish goes belly up (it's used as an anesthetic) then you add more until the fish passes. It's usually suggested you place them in the freezer after for a little while just to completely make sure that they are indeed no longer with us before burying them or flushing.


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## JennybugJennifer (Apr 16, 2012)

Wow that's interesting, though sad as well 
Thank you so much for your help


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So is gill flakes contagious? I am concerned about your other guy who was in the same tank. I would think if he is ok for now more then a week then it good. You might just need to do extra water changes? And don't share anything between Mac's and other bettas.

I wish you good luck to get in the vet school. Don't give up. You probably need good recommendations to get in the school?


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

It's a parasite, so yes, it would be contagious. other guy appears to be fine so far. Luckily, I noticed this whole problem while doing a very thorough tank cleaning/ water change, so things are in good shape. I'm just going to keep feeding him good quality food and change the water and hope everything stays good. 

Sakura, is there anything I can use in place of almond or oak leaves? I think i read once certain kinds of teas will work? I don't know... I think waiting that long for them to ship if I bought online would maybe be too late..

Thanks ANHEL  Yes, it's quite a process. I'm Canadian, so I am only allowed to apply to one school in the country, who only takes 125 students a year, which slows things down. And yes, you do have to submit references and recommendations when you apply.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Classic, you can try decaffeinated green tea, pure green tea with no additional flavors. You can either soak the teabag directly in the tank until the water changes color or you can steep it first and then pour the tea into the tank. Some bettas have experienced shock so it's best to either steep it directly in the tank or pour the tea in very gradually. You can also use rooibos or red tea too.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

Mac passed away today. Poor little guy 

Thanks everyone for your help and support.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry, Classic.  The two of you fought the good fight and you took really great care of him to the end.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry, you did everything you could to help him


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