# Birthday Fish "Finnius" is sick--Heavy breathing



## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Finnius my birthday fish of 6 mo's ago is sick  He is having trouble breathing so I turned on his UG filter 3 days ago and have been doing water changes every day the last couple days. See below. Is there anything I can do? I don't want to go to drastic (not a lot of funding here)--but I do love Finnius. See below for details.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1.5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78-81 deg right now, but can dip to 74 at night (sml 1-3 gal heater)
Does your tank have a filter? Y--the under gravel aquarium kit one
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Y see above
Is your tank heated? Y see above

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Dried Blood-worms (not freeze dried) I didn't realize it was bad before but apparently he must have other things bc on the jar it said 1 or 2 x's a wk oops.
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2-3 sml segments 2x a day at 8am and at 5p I tried the canned pea and he wouldn't touch it--it fell way too fast to the bottom--If i were him i wouldn't try to go after it if i couldn't move too well.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? the past wk: every other to the last 3 days, every day.--and before that every 2-3 days.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? none

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: n/a
Nitrite: n/a
Nitrate: n/a
pH: ? have kit--last i tested it was normal range for my city's water
Hardness: n/a
Alkalinity: n/a

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? He's had some slight little holes in his fins which went away w/ BettaFix day b4 yest. and came back 2day after i changed his water yest. His tummy area looks faded/weird. There's a nick on his head. NO fungus/patches or anything like that.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? heavy/labored breathing, for the past wk. no eating for the last 2+ wks. Tried peas also and pellets and blood worms (dried not fd) Seems to be harder to keep upright-body curls more, but he's not going sideways or having a huge amt of trouble swimming horizontally such as is seen in Swim blad--But his tail end seems to drag more than usual. B4 i put the epsom salts in yest. he was having a really hard time getting air and flailing wildly in a circle at the top to get a breath. Today it's easier for him to get it, but still heavy breathing. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 3 wks ago I also remember putting him in for 5 seconds before i realized i didn't put de-chlorine drops in so then i put them in. It also was colder temps at that time-I didn't realize it had to be so high--people said 74-81 is acceptable, but apparently 74 is too low? It was that some mornings or 73-72 even bc of the night coldness.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Y See above on water changes, Also yesterday put 1 tsp of Epsom salt in as suggested on a web site.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I know of, but his right lung always seemed to stick out more than the L. 
How old is your fish (approximately)? got him 6 mo's ago.--Adult.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh and it's not velvet either. I couldn't see any.

He seems to want to live--he's not flailing at the top as much as yesterday whenever he needs a breath after the 1 tsp epsom salt. and 100% water change yesterday. Is 1 tsp per 1 gal a good amount? Some web page said that was good, and to do that for 2 days and then increase to 2 tsps. and that was also for a fish that wasn't eating.

Oh and I forgot--one of his front chest fins has the end point bent upwards, like folding the corner of a paper Usually they're both straight.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Damn this is a tough one...You need to bump his temp up. Pics would help a lot. Does it look like there's grayish/blackish almost decay in the holes?


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=71552

I think Old Fish Lady's advice on this thread for another person might help since the Epsom salt seemed to help from yesterday to 2day. I wonder if he would be mad at me if I put him in a little QT cup as she suggested- but it sure would help me out as I don't have enough decholorinater left to keep doing 1 gal 100% changes like I have been. If I bought more i could keep doing them i guess bc the water temp has been staying steady at 76-78+ when i leave his light on as well as the heater. It may drop a bit at nigh
t.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Don't worry about his anger he'll be mad either way. Also don't just feed him bloodworms. Give him pellets too. He might be just too full or stressed out. You could also float his cup in his tank so the temp stays the same.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Arashi Takamine said:


> Don't worry about his anger he'll be mad either way. Also don't just feed him bloodworms. Give him pellets too. He might be just too full or stressed out. You could also float his cup in his tank so the temp stays the same.


He's not full--He hasn't eaten in two weeks. I 
said that above.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Fun question time:
* Has he pooped? Can you see any poos? 
* Have you seen any white things dangling from his stomach?
* Does he look bloated or larger than usual?
* Has he recently struck something? Like another fish ramming him or swimming into a decoration?

You say heavy breathing, do you mean his gills are moving rapidly or his mouth is opening?

Put him in a QT container. He might be mad but more likely, he'll be a little relieved because a smaller, shallower space means it's easier to get to the surface to breath.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Fun question time:
> * Has he pooped? Can you see any poos? No
> * Have you seen any white things dangling from his stomach? No
> * Does he look bloated or larger than usual? No
> ...


Yes I was glad i put him in it--His tank read 72 this morning even w/ the heater on so it was cold here last night.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, just because you didn't see any poos doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't gone. It's hard to see betta poo unless it's a barebottom tank and you've got a flashlight. Since he's not bloated, it doesn't sound like constipation or an internal parasite. And it doesn't seem like he received any internal injuries from a fish fight etc. It's possible he's having a reaction to the Bettafix. Keep him in the QT container and change the water as often as you can. 

What kind of dechlorinator are you using? I would suggest using API Stress Coat or Seachem Prime because both detoxify chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals. If your dechlorinator doesn't detoxify heavy metals then there is a possibility he has heavy metal poisoning. Also, both Stress Coat and Prime will aid in restoring his slime coat which will keep him healthy. If money is a concern, Prime is probably a better way to go because it is more concentrated. That means a little goes a long way so it will last longer.

Petco has Stress Coat for $5.49 for 4 oz/$8.49 for 8 oz/$10.99 for 16 oz. Prime goes for $6.99 for 3.4 oz/$8.99 for 8.45 oz. At least, those are the nonsale prices on their website.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would find a really small container that is clear and barebottom that can be floated in your heated tank to maintain water temp in the 76F range and continue the Epsom salt treatment.....

Get a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water add Epsom salt 2tsp/gal and tannins if you have any-IAL or dried oak leaf work well....use this pre-mixed treatment water for the daily water changes....100% daily is best-but if you are running low on dechlorinater and don't have the money to get more yet....make 50% daily...the small containers that some Bettas are sold in work great for a QT and a gallon of water will usually last for the 10 days needed for treatment....


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

In a pinch, you can also use decaffeinated green tea for tannins if you can't find any dried oak leaves. The tea has to be just plain decaffeinated green tea with no additives at all. Place the bag in the water for an hour or so until the water turns tea-colored. And IAL are Indian Almond Leaves but those are really hard to find.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks OFL. He's breathing rapidly still--it was better earlier this morning-but when i looked in on him now it's a bit more rapid... Idk if he'll make it w/o having eaten for so long? but anyway...I am thankful to find out about Epsom salts!! as they seem to help some.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks Sakura8. I will look around the house to see about the tea.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> It's possible he's having a reaction to the Bettafix. No, he had the rapid gill breathing way before that. I know that ppl have said Bettafix is bad, but i thought he was going to die and he was having trouble getting air--flailing in a circle at the top--and i thought it might help bc he had a slight tear on top fin. It did repair it in 1 day. I only had the BF in there one day and then did 100% water change.
> 
> What kind of dechlorinator are you using? I would suggest using API Stress Coat or Seachem Prime because both detoxify chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals. If your dechlorinator doesn't detoxify heavy metals then there is a possibility he has heavy metal poisoning. Also, both Stress Coat and Prime will aid in restoring his slime coat which will keep him healthy. If money is a concern, Prime is probably a better way to go because it is more concentrated. That means a little goes a long way so it will last longer. Using "Splendid Betta Complete Water Conditioner" by Mars Fishcare from Petco I liked it bc it comes out in sml drops very easily. I've heard good things online about Prime.
> 
> Petco has Stress Coat for $5.49 for 4 oz/$8.49 for 8 oz/$10.99 for 16 oz. Prime goes for $6.99 for 3.4 oz/$8.99 for 8.45 oz. At least, those are the nonsale prices on their website.


 Ok


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I sure hope Finnius gets better soon. Keep us posted.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

I forgot to mention that he did have some kind of white wart or cyst or lump (not ich or fungus) on his head 3 mo's ago. It looks like one his forming behind his head again this evening. Also after he gets a breath a bubble sometimes comes out of his gill (like he's not retaining the air?). Anyway.

Today I got "Nutrafin Plus" water cond. w/ Almond leaf extract in it bc I didn't know how to measure the API stress coat or Prime to such a small amount (1 gal). 

We did have organic green tea but it had caffeine in it . Maybe the AL extract in the WC will help.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

You could pick up a small syringe like you use for dosing liquid medication.You can get 1 mL fairly easily that way. If I remember correctly, it's 1mL per gal with stress coat. Should be able to get that fairly cheaply at a drug store.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Can you take a pic of that cyst thing?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Look up Lymphocystis and see if that fits the white lump you are seeing...


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Update on Mr. Finnius

-His lump went away the day after it appeared after I got the new W conditioner. I'm not sure if it was Lymphocystis earlier but that makes more sense than the one that starts w/ a C that they get from eating parasite food-bc he never ate fresh. 

-Still hasn't eaten. 

-So I can only have him in the E salt for 10 days?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How is his breathing? Has that improved at all? And yes, the epsom salt treatment is only for 10 days max.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You can use Epsom salt long term if needed...aquarium salt needs to be stopped after 10-14 days however......


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh, thanks for the clarification, OFL.  Sorry to mislead you, Frodo.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks Sakura8 and OFL. His breathing has improved some, but his right gill especially is sticking out still. So definitely not normal. His fins are shredding a lot, and his color has faded. (& doesn't eat). I put his food in but had to fish it back out so it wouldn't muck up his water in the tiny QT cup. I did let one float to the bottom this morning but he was uninterested.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It sounds like he may have some scar tissue issues from either past injury, parasites or ammonia burns....can you see in the gill area well enough to check for parasites....


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

The only possible way he could have parasite is if they fed him fresh food at the pet store 6 mo's ago bc I haven't. ...Other than that I'm not sure--The gills are a normal red color not brown or funny color. His right gill looks different to me than his left gill in that there's a little nodule of gill, and the right is definitely sticking out more than his left, and it always stuck out more than the L when he was breathing normally.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

*Finnius' gill pics*


















The 1st pic is his left side which looks smaller than his right and as you can see from the next 2 pics his right side looks bigger than the left.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No, I think he can get parasites other ways - if the people at the store changing his water used equipment contaminated from other infected fish or had contaminated hands etc. Also, there is some evidence that some bacteria can lay dormant for a long time and it isn't until a fish is stressed and his immune system weakens that the bacteria becomes apparent. There are parasites like gill flukes that could possibly be there . . .


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Well not much i can do i guess. I don't like watching them go--the pineconing scales look creepy and sad. My last fish Finnegan II lived a yr or so and he got that at the end and turned all white. I buried him in the front garden w/ a round stone that had broken in half like a headstone.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah but this guy doesn't look like he's pineconing so no need to worry. At least he doesn't look like that from the pics you've posted. If he was, he'd also be grossly bloated.

Has he eaten anything?


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Nope will not eat still. Woke up this morning and his water was 78 in the big tank so a bit higher in the QT cup and he had very heavy breathing, and then it slowed down. It is still faster than norm.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How long has it been then since he ate? I know they can go up to two weeks without eating with no problem but it can't be good for them. He won't even eat freeze dried or frozen bloodworms? A very small piece of freeze dried bloodworm might work. Or soak a pellet in garlic juice. Or try crushing a pellet so it's really small and easy to swallow. He's going to have to get some food in him soon.

I'm guessing his breathing problem is related to the gill issues you mentioned earlier. Does he go to the surface much to breathe air? If it looks like he's having trouble rising to the surface, you can lower his water levels a little so it's easier.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

It's been 3 wks since he ate.

He gets up to the surface for air fine--he rests on top of his plant in the QT cup.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That's good he can get to the surface easy - sounds cute resting on his plant. But we've gotta get the little guy to eat and soon. He needs his nutrients to fight off whatever is bothering his gills.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

I think he has gill hyperplasia based on the nippyfish.com definition. They suggested aquarium salt because it helps the gills. Epsom salt doesn't seem to be doing much for him (not eating, pale, shredded fins)? Should I switch to Aq salt? Is 1 tsp pf Aq salt for 1 gal good? Can I put it in w/ the epsom salt or should I put it by itself?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hmm, it looks like you may be right. Good researching.  If you feel the epsom salts aren't helping, then I don't see anything wrong with trying aquarium salt. I would do a complete water change to get all the epsom salt out first. Fill the container back up to about half, then add the tsp of aquarium salt to the water you will put in the tank. Let the salt dissole a little, then add the water to his QT container. Try it and see if you notice any difference in his gill function. Also remember the website said to keep the water super clean, too, as toxins can make this worse.


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Now I think the Epsom may have helped as some of his color came back and he went to the bathroom this morning! The first I have seen him go. 

Wouldn't eat dinner. 

As for the clean water: I've been doing 100% water changes on his QT cup (the one in the picture) every day. I did leave a couple pellets in there all day today...but I feel so sad when he won't eat and don't like taking them back out--again  I wish he would just eat them.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's good he's going to the bathroom, since it appears he had some mild constipation as well. Try crushing some of his pellets so they are in small pieces, that will make it easier for him to eat. Otherwise, you may want to get some frozen or freeze-dried bloodworms for him. I'm glad to hear his color is coming back. Continue with the epsom salt treatment for a few days and hopefully he'll get his appetite back. You and Finnius hang in there, okay?


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## Frodo Bagfins (Jun 2, 2011)

Week 4: Finnius is still alive. Obvious gill damage bc of white mucosa strings coming out of gill. Hasn't eaten in 4 wks. He's in 1 1/2 " of water--trying to make him comfortable, bc he was having trouble getting air. His pace of breathing slowed down, but I don't think it looks good for this anorexic little guy.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Nope, it doesn't. :-( I'm so sorry, Frodo. I think it might be best to humanely euthanize Finnius so he's not suffering anymore. The two of you have fought a good hard battle but I think Finnius is just getting tired from all the stuff he's had to go through. Let us know what you decide to do and if you choose to euthanize him, we'll help you with a humane way. I'm sorry. :-(


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