# Things You Won't Learn Anywhere Else



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Here is a thread to post small things that you don't find on most care sites and only are learned from experience...not things like "how to do a water change" etc, but the small stuff. 

I'll go first:

1) Bettas will flare at anything dark or black, because they can see their reflection.

2) Bettas are very curious and BITE.

Your guys's turn...GO GO GO!


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

3) Females can make bubble nests


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

4) Bettas sometimes act like dolphins and jump out of their tanks...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

5. some male bettas will not flare at certain colors. i.e. your betta may not flare at another male because of color.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Bettas have different taste preferences. Some may love bloodworms and others will turn their noses up at them. Some prefer certain brands of pellets over others.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

bettas personalities very as much as their colors. some may be super aggressive and flare at EVERYTHING, some may never flare at all.


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## Ayane Hajinmon (Dec 30, 2011)

8) Betta make clicking sound with their mouth


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

9. bettas love attention. Unlike the myth "bettas need to be away from traffic areas" bettas do better when they see movement, and receive attention/interaction much like a dog.


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

10) In some cases you can see the egg spot in young MALE bettas


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

11) stores mislabel many bettas, Your "halfmoon plakat male" may be a veiltail female.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> some may never flare at all.


does a betta have to flare if it's going to fight? Does no flaring mean it won't fight? Could two non-flaring bettas share a tank? What percentage will not flare? is it rare not to flare?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Never ever under ANY circumstance put male bettas together. Flaring, is a way to say "look at me I'm better than you, I'm bigger than you."

Shiloh won't flare very often, but he is a dead set killer for any fish. You can divide a tank and put two mellow boys in there, with plants and hidey holes. that'd work. There really is not a percentage of how many flare... For bettas I have owned, 1/20 have not flared. It is not super rare for them not to flare, but it also is not common.


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

12) Bettas in peace lily vases only eat the roots out of starvation


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

13) Bettas, especially males that I have noticed, love having a cave of sorts in the tank with them- if given the chance they will sleep in it from time to time. They need a fair amount of decorations and plants to keep them mentally stimulated.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

14) bettas yawn


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## Ayane Hajinmon (Dec 30, 2011)

15) Bettas will beg and beg and beg for food and make you feel guilty for not giving him more


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

16: Bettas may eat their tankmates.


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

17) Bettas have their own personality! You may get one who's hyper and fun or you may find one thats lazy and hides in his cave all day.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

18) bettas show you they are sick. Maybe not by showing symptoms like gasping or dashing... But slight color changes, or even mood swings


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## MissFutureVet (Dec 26, 2011)

19. Bettas can eat human food (though it is highly discouraged)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

20) bettas can live to 2-4 weeks without food (not recommended)


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

21) bettafish.com is your one-stop need for everything (info related) bettas! it is a highly useful tool to be used to its full extent.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: nice, Neil.
22) some bettas chase laser pointers o_o


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## Ayane Hajinmon (Dec 30, 2011)

MissFutureVet said:


> 19. Bettas can eat human food (though it is highly discouraged)


what? they can? i cant imagine that :shock: ...what kind of food? any food?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Actually, yes o.o bread, chips, meat, etc. though it is not good for their tummies :lol:


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

23) Bettas can have something that looks like bloat but isn't really. 

(max has had it since I got him, and he has gone without food for 5 days during a vacation still has a little bulge.)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

24) bettas can burp/cough :|


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## ctn91 (Jan 2, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> 9. bettas love attention. Unlike the myth "bettas need to be away from traffic areas" bettas do better when they see movement, and receive attention/interaction much like a dog.


I noticed that when I brought home two goldfish and put them in a ten gallon tank, my betta made his find stand out as much as possible showing himself off. He was quite curious about them the first few days. They're in separate tanks btw.

Betta's HATE nets, it takes me a good minute or two to get him out when I clean the tank.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: I use a cup and net. Net to herd them, cup to catch them.

25) it is possible for bettas to live to 10 years. Only known case of 10 years, was a lab betta. Most bettas live between 2.5-6 years.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

26) Bettas can and do JUMP over dividers. 

And ctn91, 10g is a bit too small for 2 goldfish. 30g min with excessive filtration, because they poop too much...-_-


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

yes, yes they do :lol: lil poop machines...

27) female bettas can display same territorial aggression as males


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

28) No matter what they say about tetras, bettas are the happiest alone or w/bottom feeders.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

29) bettas are tropical. And tropical, means warm water. Bettas will live longer and healthier with water at 78-80 F, which is why goldfish and bettas should NOT be together. Goldfish like 68-75, mostly.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Female bettas can be every bit as aggressive as males, or more


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

> 29) bettas are tropical. And tropical, means warm water. Bettas will live longer and healthier with water at 78-80 F, which is why goldfish and bettas should NOT be together. Goldfish like 68-75, mostly.
> __________________


Kinda obvious...but the goldfish one was good . ^_^



> Female bettas can be every bit as aggressive as males, or more


Said already...


30) Betta's are not too sensitive to pH, as long as it is STABLE.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

31) Marbled Bettas can change color and patterns over time


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

32) Bettas color up if they are happy.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Neil D said:


> Kinda obvious...but the goldfish one was good . ^_^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually not obvious since most people I know in this town never knew what tropical meant. Obvious to people on this site, yes, but not to the general public.
and I thought only the females make bubble nests...was said already.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Hmm...touche...

IDK if this was said already, so

33) males and (less commonly) females make bubble nests...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

think just the females one was mentioned 

34) the bettas attention span may be short, but their memory allows to remember colors, tricks, and even hands. ex. yellow and green lids mean food for my fish. all males have learned to take food from my fingers gently. my Spartan allowed me to put my hand near him in his tank, while no one else could.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

35) Some Bettas are born with no ventral fins 

And yes Sena! My guys know what a syringe is and follow it around the tank hehe Syringe = Foodz.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

36) some breeders, who overfeed their fry end up with fry who have no ventral fins. 

And lol isn't that cute??!!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> 24) bettas can burp/cough :|


Are you sure about that? I have never heard of that.



Ayane Hajinmon said:


> 8) Betta make clicking sound with their mouth


So true! I have heard this when they are eating mostly and did wake me up with a scare one night (not knowing what it was).


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

yes, they do. or at least mine do :|


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I love this thread!

*37)* At young ages bettas can and sometimes will change gender.

*38)* Employees are NOT completely correct with betta information.

Always research or get other opinions/suggestions on forums and other sites. NOT Blogs.


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## Myrtaceae (Dec 17, 2011)

*39) Bettas can learn to recognize different humans. (As in, going spastic when the one who feeds them approaches but remaining calm for others.)
* 
I haven't done much reading about how their eyes work, so I have no idea what it is they learn to recognize or how many humans they can 'learn.'


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think maybe it's even sound, (lower voice vs higher voice, I've done this with Spartan and noticed differences between him and my niece (high) and him and me (I have a lower voice)). Plus, it could be a certain color, such as eyes (as we stoop to look at them), movement (fast vs slow), a particular thing you ALWAYS wear via a necklace, a piercing...

anything could be :lol:


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

40) Somehow this thread managed 5 pages...already...

Somehow..........


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

I get the a lot. *bows*


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

41) A betta's quality of vision may surprise you. Mine was pecking at a piece of bogwood overgrown with christmas moss, I thought he was just... angry at it but it turns out he was pecking at copepods that I hadn't seen and simply couldn't see amongst the foliage.


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

Bettas have teeth. (not sure if it was mentioned already, sorry if it was!)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

wasn't mentioned  but I was going to say that!! :lol: they DO have teeth, very small, but unlike some fish who only have "sandpaper" mouths.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

43) Bettas like being fed. They really like it.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

44) contrare to the popular belief that you "feed your fish what they will eat in 2 minutes", bettas cannot be following the instructions of the food packaging. :lol: they THINK they can they THINK they can


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

They are little piggies.


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## Ayane Hajinmon (Dec 30, 2011)

Bettas get depress if you put him back in the little cup while you're cleaning the tank


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## PaintingPintos (Dec 27, 2011)

46.) Bettas often spit out food if it is not properly soaked, or it is too big to swallow whole. My Omelette spits out his food as soon as he sucks it in if it's too dry!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

47) Bettas aren't the only important creature in the tank. The bacteria are the sole reason s/he's alive. (if the tank is cycled)


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Myrtaceae said:


> *39) Bettas can learn to recognize different humans. (As in, going spastic when the one who feeds them approaches but remaining calm for others.)
> *
> I haven't done much reading about how their eyes work, so I have no idea what it is they learn to recognize or how many humans they can 'learn.'


i totally agree with this one. two of my family's bettas prove this!

my first white HMPK, Weiss, wouldn't flare at all. but, if my brother peeked in on him, he'd flare and spread his fins. xD

and, my brother's late CT, George, would flare at everything, especially me! he HATED me! he knew the difference in my fingers and my brothers, my face and my brother's, and even the sound of my voice, and would get angry and flare. ONLY at me! never my brother!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

My (now adopted out) betta Sasuke hated me. Like downright would attack ME but no one else ;( little bumb I saved his life!


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## Ayane Hajinmon (Dec 30, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> My (now adopted out) betta Sasuke hated me. Like downright would attack ME but no one else ;( little bumb I saved his life!


well...he is Sasuke...if i guess it right you name him after a character from Naruto? if so then Sasuke hate everyone...so you should be happy that your fish have the same attitude as the character you're naming him :cheers:

(just trying to make you feel better...dont hate me)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

My friend named him D: she also was the original rescuer, got him from a bad home where he had severe SBD and fin rot. After over 3-4 weeks the SBD finally went away, and the fin rot vanished and he became the red hellion that he was x.x

So, yes, she named him after the one in Naruto :lol:


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## kitkatbar (Oct 19, 2011)

This was a really fun thread . There truly is so much you learn on this forum that you couldn't see anywhere else!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Thank you!

48) Bettas come in many tail types, and some are easier to care for than others.


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

49) On the topic of fins/tail types: very long fins might look attractive but they may be quite a burden unto your fish. This could result in the betta giving themself a "haircut" by biting pieces of their tail (or other long fins) off to make swimming more comfortable. This behaviour is known as "tail biting" and as far as I know is male orientated, I have not seen any reports of females doing it.

The tail biting could also be due to stress and/or boredem, so make sure your fish are relaxed and entertained! :-D


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

50. Peas are good for bettas and their digestion. Hmm, I guess everyone has to eat their veggies


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Neil D said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 48) Bettas come in many tail types, and some are easier to care for than others.


This is a great thread. Thank you all for taking the time to post this information, which is very helpful for first-timers like myself. Following up on #48, would anyone like to take a shot at ranking the different tail types based on ease of care?


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Well, it's easier to say which "look" is easier. 

The bettas with shorter tail (PK, VT, CT) types will be less likely to tail bite, because they do not have the large tail weighing them down. The bettas with larger tails (DeT, FT) are more likely. Feathertail/Rosetails are also more likely to have genetic problems.

Peas are actually not good for bettas due to the fact they are carnivores.


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## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Neil D said:


> Well, it's easier to say which "look" is easier.
> 
> The bettas with shorter tail (PK, VT, CT) types will be less likely to tail bite, because they do not have the large tail weighing them down. The bettas with larger tails (DeT, FT) are more likely. Feathertail/Rosetails are also more likely to have genetic problems.
> 
> Peas are actually not good for bettas due to the fact they are carnivores.


Peas are good for bettas. It helps relieve contiparion that can be caused by overfeeding of pellets. It gives them a good source of fiber which is often deprived from them with the pellets. Just because they are carnivores doesn't mean that we should deprive them from necessary nutrients.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Their diet shouldn't JUST be pellets, but as well as frozen foods such as bloodworms...but I suppose there are many opinions, we can't just ask them. *talks to fish*


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

AquaKai said:


> Peas are good for bettas. It helps relieve contiparion that can be caused by overfeeding of pellets. It gives them a good source of fiber which is often deprived from them with the pellets. Just because they are carnivores doesn't mean that we should deprive them from necessary nutrients.


Question on peas, constipation, and the overfeeding of pellets: 
Is there a good rule of thumb on feeding frequency/quantity of pellets? This thread seems to suggest that Bettas' eyes might be bigger than their stomachs. Ours acts insatiable and I don't want to overfeed him and bind him up!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Pellets: Two in the morning and two at night seems to work for me. If he's the betta in your avvie, then that should be fine.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I am legit lol'ing at how incorrect some of these are.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Neil D said:


> Pellets: Two in the morning and two at night seems to work for me. If he's the betta in your avvie, then that should be fine.


Thanks, Neil. That's him alright! I'll try the two-and-two approach. How do I know if he's constipated? He doesn't seem to poop much (visibly anyway). Is there any sort of guideline to keep an eye on?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't use peas because bettas are carnivorous. Even if they work, I won't use them o.o I've been bashed enough about even thinking of using them, plus there is so much controversy I leave it alone :lol:


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

There should be an edit and warning placed in the original post of this thread so that new members who look at it will know that MANY of these are incorrect, false, and/or based upon opinion.


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> There should be an edit and warning placed in the original post of this thread so that new members who look at it will know that MANY of these are incorrect, false, and/or based upon opinion.


May I ask... which ones are wrong? Perhaps knowing would help. If I've supplied false information at all I would like to apologize sincerely and rectify it, even if all I can do is post again fixing the information I have given. I'm sure there may be others who feel the same.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

SpookyTooth said:


> May I ask... which ones are wrong? Perhaps knowing would help. If I've supplied false information at all I would like to apologize sincerely and rectify it, even if all I can do is post again fixing the information I have given. I'm sure there may be others who feel the same.


I second this request! I suppose there might be good reason why a piece of erroneous advice would be categorized as a "thing you won't learn anywhere else!"


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Oops, this kind of slipped my mind. But it does say "learned from experience". Everyone has different experiences.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That's why for info, if I am unsure but know for a fact it worked I say "In my experience"or if I am unsure but learned it somewhere I say "in my opinion" or something along those lines.

For instance, "in my opinion peas are bad for carnivorous fish because they cannot digest peas. Daphnia however works like peas." 

and yeah "learned from experience" I've noticed got me yelled at by another poster because he had "more years of experience" therefore I felt like I was being treated like some "dumb child that knows nothing".


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Almost every post needs to be changed to "Some bettas....".. because 99% of these are implying that this is something ALL bettas do.

For example #1.. not all black surfaces are reflective. The back panel of my 3 gallon is painted black but is not reflective. Not all bettas flare at their reflection in glass either.

Others.. over feeding causes missing ventrals... this is totally false. Missing ventrals are caused by genetic factors, poor water quality, and it is RUMORED that it could be caused by feeding microworms but this is not proven and does not happen in a large amount of spawns fed micro worms.


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

Thank you for clarifying.

I've tried to submit my own entries in such a way that it doesn't appear as though I'm stating fact, or I've tried to make sure that it reflects on my own experience heh. If I could edit my previous submissions to make it clearer that they are based off my own opinions I would, but I can't, so I'll be more vigilant myself in future.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

No yours were spot on and well worded to keep in mind the fact that not all bettas will tail bite, but it can happen, etc.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I didn't know if missing ventrals were or were not from overfeeding. I've heard of it "from breeders" but I wasn't sure  because I don't know how food makes fins disappear :lol:

Just like how I avoid the pea conflict... "It MAY work, and probably does, but it really isn't good for bettas" o.o


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

"Others.. over feeding causes missing ventrals... this is totally false. Missing ventrals are caused by genetic factors, poor water quality, and it is RUMORED that it could be caused by feeding microworms but this is not proven and does not happen in a large amount of spawns fed micro worms." 

That's a new one. 



Which number are we on? lol

X. Usually bettas are your friends.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Also the post about bettas flaring to certain colors. I'm pretty sure that bettas don't give a poo about colors or not. Males will flare at anything and all other bettas regardless of gender of color.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

If the male flares. Sometimes males don't flare at all. (See? We're sharing some very nice facts with each other) lol


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Neil D said:


> If the male flares. Sometimes males don't flare at all. (See? We're sharing some very nice facts with each other) lol


Here's a question that will affirm my status as a complete neophyte: What exactly constitutes a flare? Our betta consistently flashes his dorsal, caudal, anal, and ventral fins. Much less frequently, he also flashes his pectoral fins holding them outward. Would either of these be considered "flaring" behavior?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Neil D said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 48) Bettas come in many tail types, and some are easier to care for than others.


I understand that you ARE trying to contribute, but the point was to specify things that you will NOT find anywhere else, meanwhile that "Bettas come in many tail types" is a very general and quite obvious observation/addition.

I don't completely understand what you meant by "some are easier to care for than others." This is correct, but I don't know if you mean the tail types or every betta.

Please don't take this in any way other than a positive one because my intentions are anything but negative.



Zappity said:


> Bettas have teeth. (not sure if it was mentioned already, sorry if it was!)


This isn't completely true. Bettas don't have teeth, but more of a "bristle" material.



AquaKai said:


> 50. Peas are good for bettas and their digestion. Hmm, I guess everyone has to eat their veggies


This is also a false statement.
Peas are NOT good for bettas. I will have to find a good source because I was told and was very well proven by a member (GreenTea) that this is not goo for them.

Yes is works and the "swelling" of bettas stomach's go down, but it has a bad outcome that isn't too visible if at all.

There ARE other ways to help it to go down. One of the most common is making the betta flare at a mirror, other betta, ect.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Actually, I learned from someone on here that bettas do care for certain colors. My El Dorado, doesn't care for dark colors like blue, black, or dark red. But purple... he flared sooo bad x.x 

They also notice yellow more often too. hence my food lids are yellow x)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Feeding a small piece of green pea for constipation is not harmful to Bettas-you don't want to use green peas as a source of nutrition long term due to how this species digest and absorb nutrients, however, there are better methods to treat constipation....like fasting, change of food, varied diet, flaring/exercise to name a few.....

Fish have lots of enzymes and gastric acids in the gut and GI tract that break food items down-but due to the short GI tract absorption is limited with veggie matter...it passes too fast for the nutrient to be absorbed.

You are what you eat...even meat eaters get veggie matter in the gut from the food they eat.....

Don't confuse Bloat with an enlarged tummy-with bloat you generally will have other symptoms-buoyancy issues, stops eating and pooping, lethargic, hiding, clamp fins along with the enlarged tummy....

Soaking food can leach important nutrients and water soluble vitamins-Pellets don't swell up in the gut like you may think-the gastric acid and enzymes break the food down to be absorbed-If food is causing the tummy to swell it is most likely due to poor quality food that is high in grain/grain byproducts that create gases.

Poor quality food that is not utilized will be passed back in the water column that later can impact water quality.

Over treating or treating for the wrong reason can often do more harm than good in some cases....

Microworms fed to fry don't cause missing ventral fins, however, the theory behind microworms and missing ventral fins has been linked to the bacteria created by rotting/decay of uneaten microwroms in bare bottom tanks.

The long fin Bettas we keep are domesticated and are not found in the wild-thus making care and needs different than the wild cousins in some areas.

Fish have an extra sense organ called the Lateral line...used somewhat like echo location...

Myths are often told so many times that they are viewed as truth/facts..when they are still only a myth.......


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Feeding a small piece of green pea for constipation is not harmful to Bettas-you don't want to use green peas as a source of nutrition long term due to how this species digest and absorb nutrients, however, there are better methods to treat constipation....like fasting, change of food, varied diet, flaring/exercise to name a few.....
> 
> Fish have lots of enzymes and gastric acids in the gut and GI tract that break food items down-but due to the short GI tract absorption is limited with veggie matter...it passes too fast for the nutrient to be absorbed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this outstanding post. Really helped to clarify some of the discrepant contentions above!


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

Haha! Look at us! It's like our own little betta class.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: :lol:


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> My (now adopted out) betta Sasuke hated me. Like downright would attack ME but no one else ;( little bumb I saved his life!


You say this as if bettas are capable of the higher cognitive functioning of expressing gratitude......lol...


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

I personally believe that all animals have feelings and emotions. Call me crazy, but thats my opinion. Even bettas! They all seem to have their own personalities!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

There's no doubt bettas are characters. But they are not evolved enough to posses higher emotions. Not enough research has been done to even say how much recognition of different people they have or how long their memory is.

Anthropomorphizing runs rampant in pet owners. It doesn't make it fact.

For instance pet owner comes up to their tank and their betta flares almost every time. Pet owner decides their betta "hates them"... when in reality the betta just has a high aggression level and is defending his "territory".

Pet owner sees how "excited" a betta gets when he comes up to the tank.. the betta must be happy to see them? In reality the betta recognizes the human as meaning food is coming and is excited at the prospect of food.

To quote bahamut.. it's pavlovian. The fish are conditioned to do such things and then their humans label the behavior as this or that.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Anthropomorphizing is also dangerous. It sometimes clouds our thinking about what is the need VS us spoiling them. And especially when we say "it'll make them happy". We don't really know if happiness is the same with them as it is with us. I mean, I do that all the time, but still...


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## pinkcupid765 (Aug 14, 2011)

All bettas have basic needs. Food, water (obviously), oxygen, etc... While jars and small containers do have all its NEEDS, i'm sure a betta is MUCH better off and HAPPIER in a big, fitered tank, than in a small jar. . Just like us, for example. We can survive in a closet if we have food, shelter, water, etc... But aren't we better off and HAPPIER in a bigger environment? Think about it for a good minute. You can phisycally tell the difference when a creature is in a bigger and better environment. We could eat the same thing our entire life and survive, but wouldn't we be happier if we had variety? Same with bettas and other creatures. If bettas can't "think" why do you think that they have food preferences? Some of my bettas wont touch pellets, but will come flying when i drop a bloodworm in. That is why I believe creatures other than humans have emotions and feelings.

Also when you rescue a betta, and just put him in a new tank, you can see the difference. They can survive in cups, but they wont be HAPPY!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

They don't know what "happy" is. (As far as we know) They know what keeps them alive and what doesn't. We attach names to different behaviors, but in the end, all that matters is if the betta has his/her needs met.


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## carzz (Mar 8, 2011)

Bettas are addicting. Once a better owner, ALWAYS a betta owner.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Well put. *applause* lol


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

pinkcupid765 said:


> Just like us, for example. We can survive in a closet if we have food, shelter, water, etc... But aren't we better off and HAPPIER in a bigger environment?


I have definitely used this example many times on the forum and to pet stores (when I didn't know as much as I know now).

I understand why bettas have to live in cups for their time in pet stores, but there is no excuse for them being mistreated and ignored.

They do have to live in cups because it would make no sense for the LPS's to set up a bunch or 2.5 gallons just to sell them meanwhile they buy them by the 20's at times depending on the store size. They would actually be loosing money, because of all the 2.5 or even 1 gallon tanks they have to buy and it would be more cleaning for the employees.

There is a way to keep them at least at 78*F. Maybe have a small "dig in" looking spot that has a glass cover so they will be a little warm. Though they might not want to do all of that because to them they are just fish that are going to be sold pretty quick depending on how they look. So to them...why go through all that trouble. It is just a thought though. The glass cover will also help with them being mistreated by kids and other customers.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Happy isn't the best word to describe it really. More like content. If an animal is content in it's environment than it will show it. If a fish is stressed, sick, or "unhappy" than it will show it.

Things like sadness, sorrow, love, anger, resentment, etc.. fish just don't have. SOME higher mammals have shown that they possess a rudimentary form of some of these emotions but most fish and lesser evolved species do not.

As for food preferences. They'll learn to eat anything you give them. Sure if I gave my dog nothing but fresh raw meat she would turn her nose up at her kibble.. but being only afforded kibble that is what she eats. If I feed my bettas nothing but pellets they will eat them eventually. Some bettas try to hold out and starve but eventually they all come around. Plus I didn't say they didn't taste LOL.. sure if something tastes better they'll show a preference for it.


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## Myrtaceae (Dec 17, 2011)

It's true we tend to anthropomorphize our pets-- I think that brings both good and bad. 

For instance, when I say a betta can recognize certain humans I mean that my betta has learned that I feed him and my husband doesn't. So when I approach he has started to go automatically to the corner of the tank I feed him from. I don't think he actually 'likes' me anymore than my husband-- my presence is a signal that food is coming and he moves to get closer to where that food is going to be coming from. 

But...do I like to tease my husband that the betta likes me more than him? Well, yeah. Feeding duty should have some perks. 

It's definitely a fine line though. I think we tend to attribute too much personality to our bettas sometimes. I often read things like 'my betta hates large tanks' and I wonder if the person saying it had provided extra cover in the larger tank/compensated for a more powerful light being used in a larger tank/made sure the filter in a larger tank is adequate for distributing heat evenly, etc. before deciding that their betta just 'doesn't like' large tanks. There are so many things to rule out before we start ascribing fish personality as a factor...

2 cents.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Myrtaceae: The 2 cents at the end made me laugh.

I dont know what number we are/were on, but:

Bettas "do tricks" try using something that wont hurt them and put a pellet or a food that they like a lot on the item then put it directly over the tank...Not too high...Not too low because you dont want to be too easy on them, but you dont want them jumping into your lap.

Please make sure your betta is "in the mood" and isnt stressed out when trying this out. Also make sure you have a lid afterward because they do jump out of the tank when they get the hang of it....sadly i learned the hard way!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Betta (mine) can (and did) slide through a quarter inch gap UNDER a divider.

Emotions in all animals (even us, hon) are merely physiological responses to chemical/hormonal/endocrine changes incurred by influences in our environment. 

So, sure, Betta have emotions....along with all the rest of us critters. It's just labeling that's a matter of opinion.


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## jfw (Oct 22, 2011)

Hallyx said:


> Betta (mine) can (and did) slide through a quarter inch gap UNDER a divider.
> 
> Emotions in all animals (even us, hon) are merely physiological responses to chemical/hormonal/endocrine changes incurred by influences in our environment.
> 
> So, sure, Betta have emotions....along with all the rest of us critters. It's just labeling that's a matter of opinion.


Emotions would mean they have a self conscious, they flare at a mirror.
They might act afraid or excited, but that doesn't really constitute an emotion in the general connotation of the word. I'm sure when most people use the word don't mean it in a technical abstraction.

my 2 cents, hun


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

jfw said:


> Emotions would mean they have a self conscious, they flare at a mirror.
> They might act afraid or excited, but that doesn't really constitute an emotion in the general connotation of the word. I'm sure when most people use the word don't mean it in a technical abstraction.
> 
> my 2 cents, hun


+1

Look at the emotions I listed in a previous post: sorrow, love, anger, longing, regret, empathy, symptathy, desire (well that one can be construed to mean different things)... fish, at least most commonly kept aquarium fish, do not show any of these.

I don't see how everyone tries to argue this... it's science. Just because these fish aren't as highly evolved doesn't mean they aren't special or that they don't deserve the same level of care you would give a dog, cat, dolphin, or primate.

There's nothing wrong with anthropomorphizing so long as you keep in mind that at the end of the day.. your fish doesn't miss you when he's gone, he doesn't hate large tanks, and he isn't sad that the male in the divided slot next to him is gone.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

> I don't see how everyone tries to argue this... it's science. Just because these fish aren't as highly evolved doesn't mean they aren't special or that they don't deserve the same level of care you would give a dog, cat, dolphin, or primate.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with anthropomorphizing so long as you keep in mind that at the end of the day.. your fish doesn't miss you when he's gone, he doesn't hate large tanks, and he isn't sad that the male in the divided slot next to him is gone.



Let's leave it at that.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

+10 to 1F2F, guys.

Don't make me go all lab coat on you. 

Behavioural response =/= emotions. Animals respond to stimuli and change their behaviour accordingly. Emotions are a complex psychophysiological response that requires a high functioning cognitive experience.

In early stages of development, children are like this as well. Their behavioural responses are mainly positive or negative reinforcement based, they don't have the processing of: "Hey if I stick my finger in this socket, it will hurt"

In any case, not sure if this was mentioned but: betta fry do not have a functioning labyrinth organ, it only starts functioning when they get older


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Really? Betta fry don't breathe air at all?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep.. it's true. That's why it is important to keep the humidity inside the spawn tank very high by keeping the tank tightly covered with either saranwrap or a locking lid. Glass lids also work very well.

Hmm.. let's see... 

based on my experiences.. Giant bettas can eat upwards of 5-10x more food than a regular sized betta. Half-giants or "kings" can eat about 2-5x more. But this is only based on the 3 large fish I've managed to get my hands on so far.


Oh... how bout some stuff on wilds?

There are wild species that can grow up to 6in in length, possibly more (I don't claim to know all the species because I don't!).

SEVERAL species of wild betta are on the endangered species list due to loss of habitation because of modernization of the country side.

Some wild bettas are called "mouthbrooders".. they hold the eggs of their spawn in their mouths until the fry hatch and are free swimming. The male is the one who holds the eggs. Spawning its very interesting to watch because the will embrace and then the female will pick up eggs and spit them to the male. Many males do not eat during this holding period.

Many species of bettas are still being described.

Several species of wilds can be housed together in groups.

The real name for common bettas that we all keep is actually splendens, Betta is the genus name and encompasses many (I believe over 100) different species.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'll do some more.

During spawning when the male wraps the female he doesn't actually squeeze the eggs out, this is a myth. The purpose of the wrap is to get their vents as close to one another as possible so as the eggs are released by the female the sperm from the male can fertilize the eggs.

Both male and female bettas can show horizontal and vertical stripes. Horizontal strips are mainly indicative of stress while vertical stripes are indicative of submissiveness and/or readiness to breeed. Many young males will exhibit these vertical stripes while still in the grow out.

In the grow out many times a hierarchy is formed. One or two males and females will establish themselves as dominant and are usually the first ones to get food and are the ones who usually pick on the other fry first. In my experience the largest fry are usually the ones who are most dominant.

To get a Halfmoon you need both nature and nurture. Genetics play a huge role but so does conditioning the fish to go HM through flaring. Flaring sessions daily or several times a day for up to 10 minutes get the young fish to stretch out his growing fins and achieve the desired spread.

The showable size for fish is 1.5 inches for males and 1.25 inches for females. This length is from nose to caudal peduncle and does not include the fins.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

The reason why your pH drops when you add Indian Almond Leaf (IAL) or driftwood is because tannins are actually Tannic Acid.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Bloodworms aren't actually worms but a larval stage of some insect (I can't remember off the top of my head which one). Sometimes you can find them if you turn over a piece of driftwood or a rock on the edge of a creek or lake. Same goes for glass worms.

The difference between dragons and normal iridescence is the shape of the cells. I won't go into detail because it's hard to understand.

Bettas can suffocate and die if unable to reach the surface for air.

It's believed that bettas can switch their sex from female to male. I don't think male to female is possible. If they switch is done early on in the growth process.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> Oh... how bout some stuff on wilds?
> 
> There are wild species that can grow up to 6in in length, possibly more (I don't claim to know all the species because I don't!).
> 
> ...


IMO the most interesting of the wilds ARE mouth brooders. I have read a couple articles about them, but cant seem to find many. Could you possibly link one if you may know of one. Anyway they are truly a pair when it comes to working together. I think I've only seen ONE video of the act. Though this was about two or more years ago so there should be more on youtube nowadays.

Also when you said the statement about when the bettas embrace and how he isn't squeezing her ect. many breeders believe that he is and that is why they look weary when they arent in close contact. Mostly foreign and new breeders (from what I have noticed).


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Whoa. Gender swap betta...interesting...

Bettas can get stressed from seeing another male betta too much to the point of tail biting. Happened to my DeT betta Josh.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I haven't read many articles on them. Just what I've seen on the SMP site and learned from the wild breeders in my group, GABBA. I was lucky enough to actually get to see a pair of macrostoma spawning while at a meeting once.. it was really cool. I also saw a breeder "strip" a male.. basically forcing him to release his fry, some males take too long LOL.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I haven't read many articles on them. Just what I've seen on the SMP site and learned from the wild breeders in my group, GABBA. I was lucky enough to actually get to see a pair of macrostoma spawning while at a meeting once.. it was really cool. I also saw a breeder "strip" a male.. basically forcing him to release his fry, some males take too long LOL.


That's really cool!

What is the or a "SMP" (site)? Macs are definitely cool. Is it true they can live together with little to no fighting (macs)/(mouthbrooders)?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

The SMP is the IBC's species maintenance program site...
http://www.ibcbettas.org/smp/index.html

Macs can be kept together. Most people just keep breeding pairs together but I think they can also be kept in larger groups, the problem I think with that is sometimes the male holding eggs can be picked on.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> The SMP is the IBC's species maintenance program site...
> http://www.ibcbettas.org/smp/index.html
> 
> Macs can be kept together. Most people just keep breeding pairs together but I think they can also be kept in larger groups, the problem I think with that is sometimes the male holding eggs can be picked on.


Yeah I thought so. (Only because he is vulnerable at the time) Though when put together in some groups of lets say 5-6, will they breed regularly or will it have to be "intensified?" Like will they spawn unexpectedly?

In your own opinion what would intensify their want to spawn?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

It just depends. Some spawn regularly and some don't. From what I've read wilds can be much more difficult to spawn than splendens.

I don't really know enough about them to say what could make them want to spawn more.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay well I've learned much from you and just those questions helped a bunch.
Thanks!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

> Okay well I've learned much from you and just those questions helped a bunch.
> Thanks!


Wouldn't have learned it anywhere else...^_^


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## ManInBlack2010 (Sep 7, 2011)

i don't know if we're still numbering these or not but i know that one thing you can't find anywhere else

-those betta hammocks DO work and your betta will more than likely love it but you have to silicone the stem of the leaf so it doesn't rust and contaminate your water.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

We should number them, but a "-" hyphen works too...

-most pet store employees give out wrong info for most of the fish there


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Neil D said:


> Wouldn't have learned it anywhere else...^_^


haha...Very True!


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## PaintingPintos (Dec 27, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Happy isn't the best word to describe it really. More like content. If an animal is content in it's environment than it will show it. If a fish is stressed, sick, or "unhappy" than it will show it.
> 
> Things like sadness, sorrow, love, anger, resentment, etc.. fish just don't have. SOME higher mammals have shown that they possess a rudimentary form of some of these emotions but most fish and lesser evolved species do not.
> 
> As for food preferences. They'll learn to eat anything you give them. Sure if I gave my dog nothing but fresh raw meat she would turn her nose up at her kibble.. but being only afforded kibble that is what she eats. If I feed my bettas nothing but pellets they will eat them eventually. Some bettas try to hold out and starve but eventually they all come around. Plus I didn't say they didn't taste LOL.. sure if something tastes better they'll show a preference for it.


 So true! Also, a recent scientific experiment has proven that rats show compassion. They put 2 rats in 2 cages. They let one rat out, and the rat weas running away, when it noticed the other rat in the other cage. So the rat freed the other by unlocking something (or chewing it, I don't remember) and ran free with his new buddy. The rats previously had never seen nor sniffed each other. Pretty cool, huh?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@PaintingPintos: Where did you hear/read this?


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

#47 (or thereabout): According to the very friendly expert at my LFS, if you want to introduce new tank mates to your Betta, it will help to change the cover and decor in the tank at the same time. The theory suggests that environmental familiarity encourages territorial instincts (and therefore aggressive tendencies) often displayed by a male Betta. Changing around the location of plants, rocks, decorations, etc. will cause confusion. The confused Betta will spend its time and energy exploring its new surroundings and will be less likely to react harshly to the introduction of new tank mates.

Please feel free to confirm or contradict this advice based on personal experience.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

onemanswarm said:


> #47 (or thereabout): According to the very friendly expert at my LFS, if you want to introduce new tank mates to your Betta, it will help to change the cover and decor in the tank at the same time. The theory suggests that environmental familiarity encourages territorial instincts (and therefore aggressive tendencies) often displayed by a male Betta. Changing around the location of plants, rocks, decorations, etc. will cause confusion. The confused Betta will spend its time and energy exploring its new surroundings and will be less likely to react harshly to the introduction of new tank mates.
> 
> Please feel free to confirm or contradict this advice based on personal experience.


This is actually true. It works very well for sororities as well. Since the fish have already established a territory, by switching around the decor, it's like a whole new environment to them, and they'll have to re-establish territory.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

youlovegnats said:


> This is actually true. It works very well for sororities as well. Since the fish have already established a territory, by switching around the decor, it's like a whole new environment to them, and they'll have to re-establish territory.


Any idea if this works over the long haul? Or is it more likely that a naturally aggressive individual will become aggressive again once he's re-established territory? If it's the latter, would it make sense to change the decor significantly with every water change, for instance?

Bottom line: The happiness (or rather contentment ;-) ) of the Betta is primary importance. I don't want to stress him out just so that I can enjoy having a community tank of sorts. However, if I can get away with adding a snail, some shrimp, a few danios, that would be my preference.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

onemanswarm said:


> Any idea if this works over the long haul? Or is it more likely that a naturally aggressive individual will become aggressive again once he's re-established territory? If it's the latter, would it make sense to change the decor significantly with every water change, for instance?
> 
> Bottom line: The happiness (or rather contentment ;-) ) of the Betta is primary importance. I don't want to stress him out just so that I can enjoy having a community tank of sorts. However, if I can get away with adding a snail, some shrimp, a few danios, that would be my preference.


Yeah, fish who are agressive, will stay that way. The only way to make them non-aggressive is to breed it out.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

youlovegnats said:


> Yeah, fish who are agressive, will stay that way. The only way to make them non-aggressive is to breed it out.


No use trying negative reinforcement? Every time he nips a tank mate, he gets a timeout in the net?


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## Roxy (Nov 16, 2011)

onemanswarm said:


> No use trying negative reinforcement? Every time he nips a tank mate, he gets a timeout in the net?


That would stress him out... =/ 

I don't think they can learn that way either.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Hahahahaha!!! 
No, I'm pretty sure that only works with animals of higher thinking ability. I know you can have bettas do "tricks" with positive reinforcement with food...but I'm pretty sure that negative only works with mammals and birds.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

youlovegnats said:


> Hahahahaha!!!
> No, I'm pretty sure that only works with animals of higher thinking ability. I know you can have bettas do "tricks" with positive reinforcement with food...but I'm pretty sure that negative only works with mammals and birds.


I guess there's only one way to know for sure. Consistency is key and since I'm not always home watching the aquarium I'll need to set up an elaborate vision system that will detect each time contact is made between animals. For the sake of the study, I'll assume that all contact is of an aggressive nature. Of course, I'll need to develop some sort of infrared signature for the Betta and the snail in order to accurately track these interactions. I feel that the punishment should be shared equally between residents, so I'll need to provide for the automated administration of a small electric shock throughout the tank. Nothing approaching lethal voltage, but enough to discourage repeated behavior. 

Anyone seen something like this for sale at Petco?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

onemanswarm said:


> I'll need to provide for the automated administration of a small electric shock throughout the tank. Nothing approaching lethal voltage, but enough to discourage repeated behavior.
> 
> Anyone seen something like this for sale at Petco?


O_____O;


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

onemanswarm said:


> I guess there's only one way to know for sure. Consistency is key and since I'm not always home watching the aquarium I'll need to set up an elaborate vision system that will detect each time contact is made between animals. For the sake of the study, I'll assume that all contact is of an aggressive nature. Of course, I'll need to develop some sort of infrared signature for the Betta and the snail in order to accurately track these interactions. I feel that the punishment should be shared equally between residents, so I'll need to provide for the automated administration of a small electric shock throughout the tank. Nothing approaching lethal voltage, but enough to discourage repeated behavior.
> 
> Anyone seen something like this for sale at Petco?


I run experiments like this only on higher mammals such as rodents. While it is possible for animals to react to negative reinforcement, it is not recommended to "train" them that way just because you want to keep a snail and not have your betta attack it.

The fact that you mention "not lethal voltage" also speaks to me that you know absolutely nothing about how electricity works. An infrared sensor will also not be accurate because unless you get a very specific frequency/wavelength, it will be absorbed or scattered by water molecules. 

Not sure if trolling but I lol'd.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

bahamut285 said:


> I run experiments like this only on higher mammals such as rodents. While it is possible for animals to react to negative reinforcement, it is not recommended to "train" them that way just because you want to keep a snail and not have your betta attack it.
> 
> The fact that you mention "not lethal voltage" also speaks to me that you know absolutely nothing about how electricity works. An infrared sensor will also not be accurate because unless you get a very specific frequency/wavelength, it will be absorbed or scattered by water molecules.
> 
> Not sure if trolling but I lol'd.


Hahaha! I'm afraid my previous post was merely an ill-fated attempt at humor. I'd hoped that the ridiculous Petco line at the end would clarify my intentions, but I apologize if I gave anyone the impression that I genuinely intended to electrocute my animals. 

This may not be the appropriate forum to continue our discussion about the classical conditioning experiments you conduct on higher mammals, but I'm interested to hear more about your methods. Feel free to PM me.

p.s. I thought the punchy phrase "lethal voltage" would be funnier than a breakdown of Ohm's law!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow that was quite a conversation. I was almost feeling the need to want you away lol. Though im glad you dont really do this. To be honest you sounded more like a phycomaniac rather than a fish keeper. I did laugh as well when I first read about a time out in the net...

Just to answer your question (im pretty sure petco does not carry such tools) lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

76) This "information" thread probably is going/will/has (to) turn(ing)(ed) into a chat thread.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

76) when breeding, the chasing phase may take up to 4-5 days. Though many breeders (especially beginners) wait at least hree days if they are patiente enough.


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## Akeath (May 12, 2009)

Sometimes if a Betta is regrowing lost caudal fins – from tail biting or fin rot, for example – the new fin regrowth will be a different color than the fin was before. 

Bettas are introduced to Rice Paddies and Drainage Ditches, they are not native to them. They were put in Rice Paddies by humans so they would help to control the insect population, and there is a long standing tradition in Thailand for people to simply dump unwanted Bettas (former fighters or pets) in drainage ditches when they are done with them. Swamps, backwater areas of streams, and pools of water are the Betta’s true natural habitats. 

Labyrinth organs tend to evolve, not primarily in fish that have water dry up or have shallow water habitats, but in fish that have evolved with habitats that have 1) water chocked with lots of aquatic vegetation and 2) water that is turbid – murky and full of solids like mud and silt. When both of these are present the water tends to have very low levels of dissolved oxygen. Especially turbidity, I’ve tested quite a few streams/ponds for DO and turbidity and there is a very pronounced relation – the more turbid the water is, the less dissolved oxygen it contains. Along the same line, the idea that Bettas jump from puddle to puddle seems to be a case of confused identity – their relatives the Climbing Perch do this, Bettas do not. Bettas and Climbing Perches are both labyrinth fish, but they are about as closely related to each other as cats are to hyenas, or dogs are to bears. 

Breeding two doubletails together often results in offspring with deformed spines.

Humid, warm air above the surface of the water is good for a Betta’s labyrinth organ even when they are adults, in addition to being required for the fry to develop the labyrinth organ correctly. This can be achieved with cling wrap over openings, or simply making sure there are no openings in the hood to speak of.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Yep. It's pretty much a chat thread.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Fishman12: The facts are still coming. It is okay if the thread went off topic for a page or so. Though we are still working at that. Thank you.

@Akeath: Very good information. I actually didn't know that in some fish, the labyrinth organ evolves sometimes.


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## HermitGuy101 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Chase*

Bettas like to be chased with a net.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I can argue. 

Seems like 81 now:

81) Bettas will sometimes flare for a while after the mirror is taken away.

82) Keeping the lights off after introducing them to the tank will help them adjust.

83) Bettas will sometimes flare at your finger pressed against the glass.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

HermitGuy101 said:


> Bettas like to be chased with a net.


This is not at all a good thing. Bettas would not like to be chased around by a net. It would be quite exhausting for hem and very stressful. Doing this is not ganna have a good outcome at all


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

HermitGuy101 said:


> Bettas like to be chased with a net.



#whateverwereon: Bettas do not liked to be chased with a net.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

In defense of Hermitguy, there is a post somewhere (possibly even in this thread) that suggests that a Betta's lifespan can be significantly increased by persuading it to exercise. If memory serves, "chasing" the fish around the tank was one of the primary reasons given for the poster's ability to allegedly keep a Betta alive for 10 years. I'll see if I can find the post.

In the meantime, is it possible that there could be benefits to chasing your Betta, if not with a net then with something else?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

they don't like it at all. :T you try being chased around by something big and scary, unable to get away. it stresses them out. exercise is like, having them flare, giving them live foods(like, for example, guppy fry, or something), giving them a ping pong ball to scoot about.


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

Luimeril said:


> they don't like it at all. :T you try being chased around by something big and scary, unable to get away. it stresses them out. exercise is like, having them flare, giving them live foods(like, for example, guppy fry, or something), giving them a ping pong ball to scoot about.


Every time my boss comes into the office! Good suggestions on alternative forms of exercise. What other live foods would you recommend?

BTW, I'm still looking for the post I referenced previously, but some early results suggest that net-chasing for exercise was a practice condoned by no less a source than Dr. Gene Lucas.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i mostly hear about guppy and other live bearer fry. that's what i'm planning on doing, anyways. gonna get a trio of gups. :B

other than that, i don't know what other live food could move around enough for them to chase. my Chappy loved darting about eating her live BBS, but they might be too small for adults to chase around.

personally, i don't enjoy the stress my babies get from the net. it's bad enough i gotta chase them around with the cup a bit, but that's getting to be more of a 'dip and suck them in' kinda thing.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Net chasing can be very stressful. It is basically putting the betta into the "prey" situation. For exercise, flaring is a wonderful way - without over-doing it, of course  Ping pong balls, and even just getting them to jump for food (I do this with my females) all gives them exercise. 
I agree Luimeril :lol: the cup is bad enough. But it's fast and doesn't take them out of water lol. I need the net only for those few that are darting away and hiding on me -.- If I ever needed to move them. Luckily, I haven't had to except for the two newest females =D

For live foods... shrimp are good :lol: I know they are seen as "pets" by some, but by most bettas they are "food". I was suggested to get blackworms - however I have zero information or experience with them.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Another one is: Bettas like to feel secure and sometimes wide empty spaces make them stressed out. So its suggested to make sure you have plenty caves and plants that a lone betta can rest in and or swim around it.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

If you put two females together, often than not the more aggressive one will dominate, and bully (and even kill) the other female. That is why it is suggested to have larger groups for "sororities" - to lessen - or otherwise spread out the aggression of the alpha, so she doesn't bully one betta to death


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## goldentryst (Dec 13, 2011)

onemanswarm said:


> I guess there's only one way to know for sure. Consistency is key and since I'm not always home watching the aquarium I'll need to set up an elaborate vision system that will detect each time contact is made between animals. For the sake of the study, I'll assume that all contact is of an aggressive nature. Of course, I'll need to develop some sort of infrared signature for the Betta and the snail in order to accurately track these interactions. I feel that the punishment should be shared equally between residents, so I'll need to provide for the automated administration of a small electric shock throughout the tank. Nothing approaching lethal voltage, but enough to discourage repeated behavior.
> 
> Anyone seen something like this for sale at Petco?


LOL that's pretty hilarious. 

Also...

Some betta just hardly flare at all.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

- There's two versions of popeye - 1. caused from water quality, often then not showing up in both eyes, and 2. trauma popeye, which is caused when the eye is poked/bumped i.e. fighting, a plant, side of a cave etc, and is usually only in one eye.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

And here's another one.
- You CANNOT compare many things of betta splendens, to their wild cousins from Thailand. Heating, water quality, water amount, etc. Captivity bettas need different care than those in the wild - because there are numerous differences, not only in environment, but in genetics as well.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Whatever the number is) Bettas will sometimes flourish without traffic and/or low traffic for a few days when they usually have high traffic.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Giant* bettas cannot be compared entirely to average sized bettas when it comes to care because they require more than the average sized betta.

For example: Food has to be somtimes three+ times more than you would usually feed, tank size. The giant or king betta gene is usually in plakats and halfmoon plakats and since they are normally energetic and use the whole tank, they require bigger tanks; ect.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

* numbersomethingorother: Some bettas need to have interaction to decrease boredom. I got one of those -.-


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## PaintingPintos (Dec 27, 2011)

bettalover2033 said:


> @PaintingPintos: Where did you hear/read this?


 It was all over science websites a few weeks ago... Here's one of the website links to the experiment. One of many. You just need to Google "Rats compassion" and you'll find a bunch of them. http://www.inquisitr.com/166797/rats-free-friends-show-compassion-and-empathy/


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't mind that bettas may/may not have "emotions". We humanize everything :lol: dogs, cats, pigs, horses, fish, a spider  it's human nature to give a critter emotion, as emotion gives it meaning, meaning gives it reason  (to me anywho)


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## aqua001 (Jan 13, 2012)

Bettas flare at larger and moving objects.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

> I don't mind that bettas may/may not have "emotions". We humanize everything dogs, cats, pigs, horses, fish, a spider  it's human nature to give a critter emotion, as emotion gives it meaning, meaning gives it reason  (to me anywho)



AMAZINGLY SAID. *bravo*


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

thanks =D It's true. I humanize a poor lil' spider on my sidewalk. But I do treat spiders indoors, like people trespassing -.- "Get out before I KEEL you!!!" :lol: I'm an all around humanizer.


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## PiscisAmor (Jul 1, 2011)

bettas can be trained to do certain "tricks" for food


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

206) Bettas like people who feed them.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@fishman12: Thats the truth LOL!!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: Well, unless you include Sasuke. Ever hear a betta "snap" his jaws at you? I thought my friend had given me a parahna. He even latched on once x.x Of course, anyone else he was fine with. But NOT me =D :lol: glad he found a home with a macho guy who liked his spirit >.>


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

207) You can hear bettas chew. It's really cute. 

(Not sure if that was mentioned.)


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## onemanswarm (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm hoping someone will complete this one for me with the correct information:

#208) Bettas do/do not become upset when a water change inadvertently destroys their bubble nest.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not sure if they do. I constantly destroy bubble nests with water changes (sorry, Juniper, Dally, Conan and Ghengis x.x) but I do know, even without eggs in the nest, Conan is very protective of the huge nest


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

bettalover2033 said:


> @fishman12: Thats the truth LOL!!


No stealing the catch phrases.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> No stealing the catch phrases.


What do you mean?


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