# Fish Having Seizures?



## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay... I just got a new marble betta fish on November 25th. Since last week he has been darting across, up ,down, all over his tank. There is NO fish with him in the tank. Once, I spied on him and he was darting and NO ONE WAS THERE AT ALL. Is this normal or does he have seizures? You see when a betta fish chokes it swims crazily trying to spit it out? Thats what he does BEFORE I feed him and AFTER i feed him....:-?


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## ParisRose (Apr 25, 2010)

I would look into parisites. He could be trying to scratch himself.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I agree with Paris. 
Darting, or "flashing", usually indicates parasites.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

how do I heal him?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

This is from the disease sticky. 
I wouldn't start using the Jungle meds until your are sure that it's parasites. Contact Darkmoon or Myates just to be sure. I'd start with the Epsom Salt. 

"Internal Parasites
•Symptoms: Betta is losing weight but eating normally and acting lethargic. 
He/she might dart or rub against decor.
•Treatment: These can be hard to fight and can get confused with the fatal disease Tuberculosis. Perform daily 100% water changes (if possible, for larger aquariums change 3/4). Make sure you carefully clean the gravel to remove eggs/larva. Aq.Salt does not seem to be affective against internal parasites. I find combining ES with an anti-parasite med is best. Treat with 1-2tsp/gal Epsom Salt combined with either Jungle’s Anti-Parasite Pellets, Jungle’s Parasite Clear Fizz tabs or API General Cure. PP is also effective against internal parasites."


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

also, when i got him, he has this white thingy sticking out at the back of his body. It sticks out and is bumpy and round. Makes me think of fungus but i dont think fungus is white. Could it be part of the parasites?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

If you could get a clear picture, that would help a lot.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay. I'll do a water change today but I dont have the epsom salt or any of that. I do have the aq salt and tap water conditioner so should i put that? Tomorrow or saturday ill get all the needed supplies. After water change ill take a pic and post it up.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

AQ salt might actually be making the problem worse. I'd just stick with plain water (only dechlor) until you get the ES.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

wait, Im new to all these words lol. I just changed the water right now and added tap water conditioner. Should I re-change the water? (I have to do more fish research with all these words...) Ill post a picture in a second.


http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=2627&pictureid=20459

The other bubble things on his top fin and body is just the new water.The fungy thing i circled is the problem.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

by dechlor she means a tap water conditioner that removes chlorine


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Silverfang said:


> by dechlor she means a tap water conditioner that removes chlorine


^ Yes that. 
Don't do another water change. Just make sure there's no salt in the water.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

okay. Water change is to remove parasites, and how about that white growth thing?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

No. The water change won't remove the parasites. We aren't even sure that he has them. If he does (which if you had a picture of him that would help a ton) then you need to get medicated pellets and parasite medication. 
I'm also not sure about the white thing, as it could be a number of different things.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Picture of white thing 

http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=2627&pictureid=20459


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

It's hard to tell by that picture. Could you get different angles and more clear? 
Cuz from that picture it just looks like marbling.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

youlovegnats said:


> It's hard to tell by that picture. Could you get different angles and more clear?
> Cuz from that picture it just looks like marbling.


Ill post pics tomorrow.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Star- I'm going to go ahead and respond here instead of on the wall, it will make it easier to communicate and share, etc. 

He's a nice looking boy..
Look for white specs on him, similar to grains of salt.. or wiggly worm-like objects on his body. 
When he goes to the bathroom, is his waste brown-red or white and stringy?

The lump looks like it may be lymphocystis, which if that is the case then all you can do is keep the water clean until it runs it's course. If it "pops" then you will need to do a large water change to avoid infections. If it is lymph, then there is no treatment for it, just keep up with regular water changes, possibly even adding another small one depending upon size of tank, water change schedule. In time it will go away on it's own.

It may also be a tumor, and that there is no treatment for it other then clean water...

Now, you say darting.. does it seem as if he is trying to scratch himself on things.. or is he sitting still then takes off for a split second then stops right away?
Or is he swimming up and down, all over quickly?


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Myates- I dont see any white specs or anything, just that lymphocystis thing. His waste is browish-red. He DOES dart for like 5 seconds then stops for a rest. Poor little thing. He also seems like he's scratching against the corners for a split second. The only time he rests (i believe so) is for like 5-10 min. then he would dart all over again. Poor fish


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Poor guy, that sounds like parasites. Since we don't know if they are internal or external, a good broad spectrum medication like API General Cure would be ideal. His appetite is still good right?

I've seen those white patches on dragon scaled bettas before. One of my own plakats has one as well and seems more less unaffected by it. I think he's had it for at least 5 months now. Just make sure you keep his water clean and it should either go away on it's own or remain benign.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

DarkMoon17 said:


> Poor guy, that sounds like parasites. Since we don't know if they are internal or external, a good broad spectrum medication like API General Cure would be ideal. His appetite is still good right?
> 
> I've seen those white patches on dragon scaled bettas before. One of my own plakats has one as well and seems more less unaffected by it. I think he's had it for at least 5 months now. Just make sure you keep his water clean and it should either go away on it's own or remain benign.


 Yup he definitely likes to eat. Thats for a fact. Thanks for the help Myates and Darkmoon17  Hopefully Captain America will get better!


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

DarkMoon17 said:


> Poor guy, that sounds like parasites. Since we don't know if they are internal or external, a good broad spectrum medication like API General Cure would be ideal. His appetite is still good right?
> 
> I've seen those white patches on dragon scaled bettas before. One of my own plakats has one as well and seems more less unaffected by it. I think he's had it for at least 5 months now. Just make sure you keep his water clean and it should either go away on it's own or remain benign.


Oh and um where can I get API General Cure? The only pet stores around here are Petland and Popcorn Paws (i dont think popcorn paws has fish things but ill check sometime tomorrow or Sunday). Plus I don't have a credit card so I can't buy from the internet...:shock:


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

No Petsmarts in your area? Well, I guess you can try calling your local petstores and ask them about it. If they don't have anything then you can use Jungle's Parasite Clear, which isn't quite as good as General Cure, but is available at Walmart.


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

Kind of coming in late on this one but Petland should have what you need or something close to it. Even though it does sound like parasites like the others have suggested darting can sometimes be caused by an irritant in the water. Make sure your dosing your water conditioner correctly.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay. I went to Popcorn paws and they had no fish things. Pet land didn't have the medication you guys said, and I was in a rush so I just grabbed and bought "Simply Betta' medication for ick and parasite cure. When I had my first betta Skyler i had no idea Bettafix was bad and he died eventually. So every time I get a medicine for bettta fish That i never heard before, then I get PARANOID and do TONS of research on the product. Everything is still packaged up and if it's a bad medcine then I can return it anytime.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well... a good rule of thumb is, if it says "betta" in the name then it is overpriced and useless. Take that back if you can. Do you have a Walmart around you? Jungle Parasite cure will do the job.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

well, I checked a map and there IS a walmart in nj... Since there's winter break in 1 week is it okay if my betta can wait till then? Hopefully I can convince my mom to go there.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

omg! I just observed Captain America in this magnifying cup and I noticed that his right gill cover is swollen in the inside and there's more red (looks like blood) than inside the other gill cover! He has been scratching alot today and he only scratched that gill cover on his right side! Poor fishy :-(


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Poor guy... Are you sure you don't see any 2-3mm string-like worms in/around his gills? 

Can you get Aquarium Salt? Even smaller pet stores should sell that.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

No worms anywhere. I have Aq. Salt! Oh and here's what I found on petland.com.
http://www.petland.com/fish/health-care-and-remedies/jungle-labs-internal-parasite-guard-2oz.html Is that good?

EDIT: also, now he's scratching BOTH of his gill covers! :'(
EDIT 2: Oh and I noticed these little white specks on his mouth...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

sounds like he is having no luck! the poor guy.

can you get a vanilla mastercard? check stores, corner stores... It is a prepaid card, and it acts like a mastercard - then you can use it online. register it on their site first, otherwise it will not work. That's what I had to do.

sounds like he is either getting ich (white spots, often like white powder)... Not for sure though. What is the temperature of the water?


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

He can't even eat! The parasites itch him so much he doesn't have enough time to eat another pellet! He could only get one.  I don't want him to die, he's my first marble! He was the best one at the store :-(

Temperature is approximately 70 degrees.. oh dear. I don't think I saw a heater that can fit in his tank but I have to keep the A.C. on because it will turn into a boiler room in a minute without it! :-( what should I do? It also seems like his anal fin is tearing up slightly at the tip.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Cold water is breeding grounds for ich. You need to raise the temperature to minimum of all minimums.... 75-78. towels wrapped around the tank, have the tank higher up (heat rises!), closer to a heat vent (not ON it though), away from windows... take water bottles, fill with hot water, set close to the tank.. but that will have to be redone every few hours or so.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

UPDATE: Okay I got the epsom salt. The white thing on his body shortened a bit (i think it popped) but his anal fin is terribly broken. From scratching so much it ripped his anal fin. Thankfully, some of it is still there. His other fins are perfectly fine, though. I have AQ salt with tap water conditioner in his tank (i changed his water today so I put it again.) So how much EP salt do I add? Should I re-change the water and add that+ the Tap water conditioner? Answer as soon as u can thanks.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Don't mix AQ salt with EP salt. It'd be like rubbing salt in a wound. Worry about his fins later nuke the ich now. If you have to turn the water on warm when your getting it ready for the change and check the temp periodically. The sooner you can get it warmed up the faster treatment will work. Also get an ich med like Ich Be Gone. It's the best bet you can get.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Arashi Takamine said:


> Don't mix AQ salt with EP salt. It'd be like rubbing salt in a wound. Worry about his fins later nuke the ich now. If you have to turn the water on warm when your getting it ready for the change and check the temp periodically. The sooner you can get it warmed up the faster treatment will work. Also get an ich med like Ich Be Gone. It's the best bet you can get.


Okay. So I re-change the water then add ONLY the EP salt and tap water conditioner? How much epsom salt do I put? 
I don't know how many gallons it is. All I can say is that it is a medium sterilite clip box (I punched a hole in it for air). 
*Dimensions:*
11" L x 6 5/8" W x 5 3/8" H
27.9cm L x 16.8cm W x 13.7cm H
Here's a pic of it: http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProd...=Specifications&ProductCategory=250&section=1
I have it filled up about 3/4 high with water.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

StarBetta said:


> Okay. So I re-change the water then add ONLY the EP salt and tap water conditioner? How much epsom salt do I put?
> I don't know how many gallons it is. All I can say is that it is a medium sterilite clip box (I punched a hole in it for air).
> *Dimensions:*
> 11" L x 6 5/8" W x 5 3/8" H
> ...


 (Ignore this)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

A gallon is 8 cups of water. a gallon is easier to treat, if you can float him in a warmer tank. Treat the ich now, as his fins will not get better with a parasite chewing at him >< lowering his immune system...


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

But how much Epsom salt do I put?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

If treating ich: It's aquarium salt you need, as AQ is outside, EP is inside. It is the same amount. Sorry ended skimming >< my bad!

AQ is what you need for ich, which also for fins will help keep fin rot at bay, with every day cleaning. That, is 100% per day, and redo the dose each day, the same amount. you can do up to 3 teaspoons per gallon (for you, I'd say only do 3 tsp total) but you need to increase temperature.
note: never exceed 10-14 days. Once the ich disappears, continue for 3 more days to ensure the ich is completely gone.

AQ salt will dehydrate any fre swimming parasites. which is why you need to clean each day as well, because then you kill off any breeding ones.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

How much epsom salt do I put? Is it tsp or tbs per gallon? answer asap i need to heal this betta


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

StarBetta said:


> How much epsom salt do I put? Is it tsp or tbs per gallon? answer asap i need to heal this betta


for ich, (I re-read the thread and realized I skimmed) AQ salt. One teaspoon NOT tablespoon per gallon. Re-read my last post... that'll tell you procedure. Also, up the temperature to 80 F if you can


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Im getting totally confused because here's what youlovegnats told me----
"Internal Parasites
•Symptoms: Betta is losing weight but eating normally and acting lethargic. 
He/she might dart or rub against decor.
•Treatment: These can be hard to fight and can get confused with the fatal disease Tuberculosis. Perform daily 100% water changes (if possible, for larger aquariums change 3/4). Make sure you carefully clean the gravel to remove eggs/larva. Aq.Salt does not seem to be affective against internal parasites. I find combining ES with an anti-parasite med is best. Treat with 1-2tsp/gal Epsom Salt combined with either Jungle’s Anti-Parasite Pellets, Jungle’s Parasite Clear Fizz tabs or API General Cure. PP is also effective against internal parasites." __________________


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Okay, ok back on track for me x.x (what is with me today?? D: )

okay, ich is AQ... internal parasites, IS Epsom sorry ><

It is 1-2 Teaspoons per gallon fo epsom salt, for what youlovegnats mentions.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Okay, ok back on track for me x.x (what is with me today?? D: )
> 
> okay, ich is AQ... internal parasites, IS Epsom sorry ><
> 
> It is 1-2 Teaspoons per gallon fo epsom salt, for what youlovegnats mentions.


Okay, thanks. I have him in a 1/2 gallon tank, so I put 1/2 tsp of Epsom salt. Temp. is 80-81 degrees. I'll try to get a heater because somehow the temp ALWAYS drops like 10 degrees. He actually likes the tank, even though its redish-purple. (more of a girl color lol) He's also spreading his fins out, surprisingly. Even though his anal fin is originally grey red it seems like there is blood at the tip. I think he did some nipping, but I can't tell.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Is there any way you can get an updated picture of him? I'm having trouble picturing what you are describing. 

You can either put 1/2tsp or 1 whole tsp of Epsom Salt. Epsom is very safe and he may need the higher dose. Were you able to get that medication?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It can be nipping.. which is a sign of stress in this case. OR it could be something else, but Epsom can help fend that possibility off too (septicemia). And a pic would be nice


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay ill post a pic in a few. Now that I think and look at him it might be nipping... it sorta looks like bite marks, but a few water changes ago I found pieces of his fin on the ground.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It could be both. I've had a rescue betta who had severe fin rot AND he began tail biting... there were strips of fin on the bottom of his tank ><

But right now, focus on the inside, so that the treatment for the outside works  For this, I suggest a daily 50% water change.... or 100% every 2 days. This can ensure the fin rot does not spread, and it'll get rid of the breeding ich as well (gravel siphoning or complete cleaning aka hot water while betta waits in a cup or container)


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> It could be both. I've had a rescue betta who had severe fin rot AND he began tail biting... there were strips of fin on the bottom of his tank ><
> 
> But right now, focus on the inside, so that the treatment for the outside works  For this, I suggest a daily 50% water change.... or 100% every 2 days. This can ensure the fin rot does not spread, and it'll get rid of the breeding ich as well (gravel siphoning or complete cleaning aka hot water while betta waits in a cup or container)


There's no decor in the tank (besides thermometer) so I can have a close eye on things that are on the ground. (fin pieces, leftover food, ect.)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

hmm ok I do recommend however a couple plants for him... because that'll lower stress  lower stress helps with immune system


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Oh No. UPDATE: When he first had seizures he started to get better but now it came back to him. He's starting to scratch and dart so when I did a water change (yesterday) I added a tsp of epsom salt. Since this is a reoccurring symptom, should I change any medicine?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Epsom salts do nothing for parasites. Increasing tank temp around 80-82 and adding aquarium salt (1 tsp per gallon) may help.

Otherwise I'd try General Cure by API.

Nobody had you fill this out before..



> Housing
> What size is your tank?
> What temperature is your tank?
> Does your tank have a filter?
> ...


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

callistra said:


> Epsom salts do nothing for parasites. Increasing tank temp around 80-82 and adding aquarium salt (1 tsp per gallon) may help.
> 
> Otherwise I'd try General Cure by API.
> 
> Nobody had you fill this out before..


I believe he has ich as well so doesn't epsom salt treat that? Ooooooh. I think the EPS was for his bitten fins the first time...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Epsom salts are for constipation, bloating, chemical or ammonia poisoning or dropsy.

Aquarium salts are for bacterial and parasite infections.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1/2 Gallon
What temperature is your tank? Room temp. ALWAYS changes so the average would be 70-74 possibly 75.
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?No
Is your tank heated?I bought a mini heater for him but it was an uncontrollable heater and he almost got fried until I saved him. I still have it but I don't use it.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? N/A

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Betta Bio-Gold pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3-4 times a day 2-4 pellets depending on how hungry he is.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Either once or twice a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Nutrafin Aqua Plus Tap Water Conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
I do not have a testing kit so N/A
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? When he has parasites the first time his fins were bitten and scraped but they have grown back nicely. Oh and the bump on his body has flattened down a bit but it's still there.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Starting to scratch against objects like before :-( 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2 days ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I have put 1 tsp of epsom salt but everything else is normal.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Yes. After a few weeks (when I got him November 26th) he started darting and scratching.
How old is your fish (approximately)? I don't know but I think he's less than a year old maybe?
He is the fish in my avatar.


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## StarBetta (Aug 5, 2011)

Actually no in previous posts they have said Epsom is for internal parasites, which I think Captain America has, AGAIN.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Your housing is inadequate for keeping a betta long term. 1 gallon is absolute minimum and even then they are hard to keep ammonia down and heated. Ammonia would be getting very high with only a once a week water change in something that small. You will need to be making daily 100% changes in a half gallon and even then water temp is not okay for keeping a betta long term. It weakens their immune system and they will not live as long as one kept properly warm in 76-82 (78-79 ideal) temp. In the half gallon I would expect your guy to live maybe a couple years.. 3 if you're really lucky. Where as a betta properly taken care of in a heated well maintained enviornment will easily live 4+

Darting can also be due to ammonia burns. As ammonia builds, it literally burns their skin off, but it could be some kind of parasite problem, but you can't really treat it with temps that low. They need to be raised and you can't in that small bowl.. so.. first things first please try to invest in a system minimum 2.5 gallons, and an adjustable heater like a 24w Marineland Visitherm. This setup will run you maybe $35 total ($15 for tank and $20 for heater). The lid may be more.. run you another $15. This will at least give him adequate heat and slow the build up of ammonia. In something this size you need to do at least twice weekly water changes, one at 50% and one at 100% including cleaning the gravel.

Treating internal parasites requires feeding a medication..epsoms aren't going to help with this. Internal infections sometimes cause bloating and epsoms will help with the bloat but do not treat infection. Are you seeing signs of this? What does his poop look like and is he pooping daily? If you can't tell, try leaving the bottom bare so you can see what's coming out and how often.


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