# Boys laying on the bottom of tank



## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

I have a 30 gallon tank that is divided into 3 spots. I've had two of my boys in it for about 2 weeks and my 3rd was added about 2 or 3 days ago. My new boy is floating behind the internal filter(he's not very active during the day) but my other two are laying on the bottom of the tank. Normally they are very active. The temp in the tank is 82 degrees. The only thing that has changed(besides adding my newest boy)is I took the original filter out.(The large filter was pushing the middle fish around and the dividers were preventing the other sections from filtering. I bought Tetra Internal Filters for each section) Is this a reaction to the change in current or should I be concerned for my fish? As far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with either fish, aside from the inactivity.

Oh, and I've only got one of the filters put in as of now. I noticed the inactivity and decided to try and find the problem before continuing the renovations.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What are your water pram numbers: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH
How much and how often on the water changes and when was the last one, how long has the tank been set up and is it cycled> any additives use? what kind, how much, what for..
When you see a change in behavior odds are it is a water quality problem and the best treatment is a water change, depending on the nitrate level, it will help you decide how much water to change so not to shock the fish.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Maybe since you took out the original filter, you ruined the entire 30 gallon cycle?. I would imagine the filter cartridge is gone, that housed the beneficial bacteria good for a cycle. Suddenly taking it out probably destroyed the cycle, if any, so you'll be starting over in terms of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, etc. That's just my one-second thought.


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## doubleatheman (Mar 3, 2010)

Isn't most of the cycle bacteria in the gravel? 

I know that this is more true for tanks with under gravel filters. I have always used bio balls in my tanks to provide more surface area for the good bacteria. And if you swap tanks you can take some of your good bacteria with you! (some, but it helps)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The nitrifying bacteria that make up the biological filter are sticky and adhere to everything inside the tank, like the walls, decorations, plants both real and fake, in the top layer of the substrate and in the filter media, very little is in the water column itself, more surface area with good oxygen/water circulation the better for the nitrifying bacteria to thrive and colonize for a cycled tank.


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

I had to replace all of the water about 4 days ago to put in the last divider. The tank has been up for about 1 month. It's had two complete water changes since then.(both times for dividers. I originally only wanted to divide it once) As far as cycling-no, at least not on purpose. I use Tetra Aquasafe to make the tap water safe. 5ml per 10g is what it says to use on the bottle. It sounds like I need to cycle my tank? What do I need to do that? Also, after I took out the big filter(about 1 week ago) I put in a slightly smaller filter. The fish did not seem bothered by this change BUT I used the same filter cartridge. The Tetra internal filters use smaller cartridges. This all seems to lead back to cycling. I'm installing the last two Internal filters now, is this a good idea?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Yeah, a lot is in the gravel, but EVEN MORE is in the filter cartridge. So I wouldnl't say most is in the gravel. A very nice amount is in the filter cartridge actually. Gravel definitely helps, since it can cause a minicycle when aggravated, but completely removing original filter cartridge can nearly murder a cycle. But I don't know what her tank looks like, but I still wouldn't be surprised if she had to start over, or close to over.

EDIT: Sorry, you posted while I was typing! 
Well if you kept the filter cartridge, that's real good then. Someone else can help with you with cycling, apologies, I sorta shouldn't be on this website right now  
Nothing else flows through my mind ATM.

And yeah, go ahead and add the two filters.

And almost everything in the aquarium hobby leads to cycling, lol. (Not really).


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

I do still have the cartridge but both the filters that it fits make too much of a current for at least one of my boys, no matter how I place it. I'm fairly certain I saw a post about cycling on here somewhere, perhaps I should start reading up on that and prepare to cycle my tank? Will my boys be alright in the tank as it is now? I honestly have nowhere's else for them save for the cups that they came in. (I have two 1g holding tanks but they're full. I have 2 others that are awaiting payday and a 10g.) Also, will each individual section need to be cycled specificlly or will the entire tank cycle as one. The dividers have very tiny holes that allow the water to pass through but nothing else. (Keep in mind I have no idea how to cycle, in case that's a dumb question)


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Again I'm in a hurry. Definitely read the thread here on cycling, and read as MANY as you can on Google, Yahoo, and what not. Good way to kill time. 

Treat the entire tank as one, since basically it is one. Is the filter cartridge inside the water as we speak? If not, how long has it been out? 

You should definitely keep them in the 30 gallon, but be careful with water changes. 30 gallon is quite big, so you COULD relax? NOt sure on cycling with bigger tanks. Do water changes very often while it's cycling.


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

No the cartridge is not. Thanks so much for your help.  I just took it out today. Should I float it in the tank?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Ah how long has it been out of water? You could definitely float it, but if it's been out for a while (I don't know how long a "while" is either, though), then it will pretty much be useless. And no problem, but I may be off for the rest of the night, I need to study for a chemistry test!! Good luck with your boys 

And don't worry if the cartridge won't help anymore. 30 gallon is a nice size, so cycling will probably be made easier on them.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You are and have been cycling the tank as we speak....do research the nitrogen cycle...but in short what that means is the bi-products of the fish- ammonia converts to nitrite and then the nitrite to nitrate, this process can take 4-8 weeks depending on pH and water temp, water changes are needed when you cycle with fish for the safety of the fish. 
To make this easier on both you and the fish, make water test with a master test kit and test the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH each day, with any ammonia or nitrite reading you need to make water changes until the readings are 0ppm, once you have readings of ammonia, nitrite 0ppm and nitrate 5-10ppm for several days without water changes you are cycled.
*note: daily water change but only vacuum substrate one time a week to keep NB intact, swish filter media in removed water only when flow has slowed to keep NB intact. Use dechlorinator with all new water if on city water supply. Keep water temp within a couple of degrees from new and old water to prevent temp shock issues
Without the testing products make 25-50% daily water changes to keep the fish safe, long term injury from ammonia burns and scar tissue from the healing of ammonia burns can cause long term problems for the fish and it can be very stressful on them as well.


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

Thanks again. I completely understand. I'm supposed to be doing Philosophy homework right now. The filter has been out for a while. I'm going to float it though, just in case. How long should I leave it in?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If the filter media has been out of oxygenated water for 4-6 hours the NB is dead and you will add more ammonia to the tank and you do not want to do that at this point.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You guys better get studying! lol


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

25-50% everyday? I can do that. The filter cartridge is kinda dirty, I was thinking of rinsing it but I'm afraid this will defeat the purpose. Should I just leave the cartridge out and plan on daily water changes?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Dramaqueen, emma is practically studying right now! Only on the nitrogen cycle, and not so much philosophy. And I'm not doing a good job of staying off this site, either, Hehee


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

The cartridge has been out for about 6 hours now so I'll just throw it out. How long should the conditioned tap water sit before it goes into the tank?


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

And thank you for your concern. I'll get the homework done before daylight. Somehow my fish seem more important.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Dechlorinator work on contact and the water is safe as soon as the conditioner touches the water....now go study and get your homework done....lol.......


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Thought I'd put this in anyway - fish are always more important.


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## doubleatheman (Mar 3, 2010)

I actually made it a point to read the entire chapter on tank cycling in our old fish book. (A great book actually)

No offense, but I find the internet frustrating source for info sometimes. Like the amount of salt to add to water, how often to change the water, ect ect. Every single website or forum wills say something different! But the book always agrees with itself! 

Needless to say the info on this forum seems to agree with the book most of the time  

Basically ammonia spikes somewhere around day7, NitrIte day 14, NitrAte day 21. No bacteria gets rid of Nitrate fast enough, so that's one of the reasons you need to make regular water changes on a cycled tank. 

NitrAte is LAte! that's how I keep the two N's in order!


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Bahahaha, that's a nice idea actually  

You'll never get one answer for things like this. There are so many things to keep into consideration. Personal experience, personal thought, neglect, necessity, factual info, etc etc - which is what changes everything. A book is definitely filled with "facts" and whatnot. I like the internet better though, more personal experience, and emotion to it


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## emma2010 (Mar 9, 2010)

Question: If most of the bacteria is in the cartridge then what happens when I change the cartridge? Won't that upset the balance again or will it be ok so long as the water is cycled water and the cartridge is given time to reup with bacteria before another water change?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I change my filter media maybe 1-2 times a year when they are falling apart, I have planted tanks now so I don't worry with cycling issues, but when I kept regular tank I still only changed out the filter media when it was falling apart and I would take the old filter media and tear if off the frame and leave it behind the new filter media for at least 2 weeks to give the new filter media time to seed to prevent a mini cycle.
I also cut a slit in my filter media and remove all the charcoal and save it for later, most of the charcoal in the filters are of low quality/quanity and are only active for a short time, depending on type and brand they are active for a week or two at best, it won't hurt anything with using/leaving the inactive charcoal but it is not doing anything either, it does have a good surface area for the good bacteria to grow.
Companys that make these products often tell customers that you need to change these things out every month or so, this is money in their pocket and out of yours....why spend on these things when you can spend or other things like another tank...lol....more fish.....I can think of lots of things I can better spend my money on. I don't even buy the filter media anymore, I use poly fill from the craft department one bag will last me 10 or so years...maybe longer........
IMO/E the best way to care for the filter media is to give it a good swish/rinse in old/removed tank water with a water change to get the big gunk off, and only if the water flow has slowed, it will look dirty and you want it to look dirty, our little ecosystems we create need that good bacteria to be healthy....


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## doubleatheman (Mar 3, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> I change my filter media maybe 1-2 times a year when they are falling apart, I have planted tanks now so I don't worry with cycling issues, but when I kept regular tank I still only changed out the filter media when it was falling apart and I would take the old filter media and tear if off the frame and leave it behind the new filter media for at least 2 weeks to give the new filter media time to seed to prevent a mini cycle.
> I also cut a slit in my filter media and remove all the charcoal and save it for later, most of the charcoal in the filters are of low quality/quanity and are only active for a short time, depending on type and brand they are active for a week or two at best, it won't hurt anything with using/leaving the inactive charcoal but it is not doing anything either, it does have a good surface area for the good bacteria to grow.
> Companys that make these products often tell customers that you need to change these things out every month or so, this is money in their pocket and out of yours....why spend on these things when you can spend or other things like another tank...lol....more fish.....I can think of lots of things I can better spend my money on. I don't even buy the filter media anymore, I use poly fill from the craft department one bag will last me 10 or so years...maybe longer........
> IMO/E the best way to care for the filter media is to give it a good swish/rinse in old/removed tank water with a water change to get the big gunk off, and only if the water flow has slowed, it will look dirty and you want it to look dirty, our little ecosystems we create need that good bacteria to be healthy....


Yep I crack open the Penn Plax Small world Filter containers and refill them with new carbon and sponge myself! Only have purchased replacements for that filter once. (I haven't done this in the last 7 years though, but plan to do it when it becomes to replace the carbon again. I plan to replace the carbon once a month)


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