# "It's a surprise!" HM dragon x HM spawn 2/9/13



## Myates

I want to experiment.. it's how we come up with some unique, pretty bettas.. so I threw in a pair to see what I will get. Have more pairs going at it, working on a couple different lines.. but this one is a "Wonder what I would get.." pairing.

Father is a dragon HM - a little rough, but still a good boy. This is his first spawn. 

Mother is a cellophane light body (part grizzle I believe) with multi colored fins. A little rough topline, but she is definitely interesting and one I want to work with on multiple spawns/mates. 

I try to keep all my breeding fish conditioned, feeding lots of food that includes frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, tubifex.. feed live foods whenever I get any.. top quality pellet mix grab bag - different types such as Black Gold, NLS, Omega One, GP, etc. Also will mix in homemade food, some ingredients are shrimp, fish such as salmon or Tilapia, crab meat.. greens such as spinach, garlic and will usually ground up some pellet food to mix in as well.


_2/4/13_ Started carding pair - food conditioning is continuous for most part. Allow to see one another anywhere from 10-20 minutes a day while carded.

_2/8/13 @ 8pm_ - After being carded for 4 days I set up a 10g spawn tank, female in chimney. Rubber maid small tub with some semi-small holes punched in on the lower sides, filled up the 10g until a little below the container's lip, filled up tub. Live plants include a mix of Hornwort, Brazilian Pennywort and Anacharis Narrow Leaf on the outside of the tub. Broke up a large grade A IAL leaf into the tank, and another in the tub. Temp is set at 84*F, sponge filter on low - but nest/fry are protected from current by the sides of the tub.

_2/9/13 @ 11am_ - Let female loose into tub with male, male had made bubble nest overnight. Covered up side of tank as the pair kept watching me doing my thing with the fish surrounding them.. silly fish.. Checked in on that at around 1pm, they were both under the nest, but did not peek to see if they were doing anything due to didn't want to disrupt them.

_2/9/13 @ 7pm_ - the pair had finished spawning roughly within the 5-7pm time frame - had not witnessed the spawning due to male being a virgin and easily distracted. 

Female had been beaten up quite a bit - only some split fins, but the male had taken a big chunk out of her side (scales sticking up there), as well as a lot of sores/bites on and around her head. He was determined to get her out of the tub or kill her.. he had no mercy on the poor girl. She had the reputation of being the mean/aggressor.. but this male didn't take it from her apparently. Unsure of his condition as he won't leave the nest and I can't view him clear enough without disturbing him/the nest. 

Female was removed immediately from the tub, placed in an 80* hospital tank of .33g in size, with AQ salt to keep her wounds clean. She immediately ate 7 pellets when she was placed into the hospital tank. 

_2/10/13_ - New daddy still guarding his nest.. unable to get a clear look but from the quick glance it looks like a few dozen eggs - container not clear, nor don't want to disturb so peek was quick. Daddy still being vigilant.
Momma is doing great, ate breakfast of bloodworms and is swimming around happily. Had isolated her last night as she started to flare at a neighboring girl - will most likely let her see her neighbor/s later today. She seems to be just fine, just looks really rough.

Unfortunately since this was a virgin spawn for the boy, I kept them in the container for the spawn rather than in a glass tank.. so no pictures of the eggs/new hatch fries.. next spawn he will be in a glass tank (as long as he continue to prove he is a good daddy) so I can watch them easier 

Pictures - 
Daddy (Rex from Clone Wars hehe..)
Momma (Zahra - but nicknamed Tiger Girl), 
The tank when I first released the female and before I had to cover them up so they would stop watching me.. silly fish.


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## dramaqueen

I can't wait to see what you get!


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## Myates

lol me too! Eggs still in the nest, looks like he cleaned them up a bit, moved some around.. so I'm not too worried he'll eat them as he would of by now (most likely) if he were going to. He's surprisingly very good at being a first time breeder.. knew how to make the tough girl roll over for him. Was scared at first as there were so many little eggs all over the bottom of the container.. but hey, he got a bunch into the nest so I'm proud of him! 

I am debating on how far to push my luck with him being a good daddy.. leave him in the bin/tank as long as possible, or take him out once free swimming. 

Either way, I'm proud of my boy!


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## MattsBettas

Excited to watch this! Hard to guess.


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## BeautifulBetta123

Subscribed I can't wait to see the outcome of this spawn! I love your female


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## Myates

Thanks! Hoping for some hatching today!


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## Myates

_2/11/13_ @ 10:30am - lots of little tails wiggling from the nest, some falling and going back up.. see tiny little eyes.

Pulled father, but regretting it... he was such a great daddy... but saw him taking large mouth full of eggs and wasn't sure his intentions... he had move a good portion of them away from the nest, thinking they were the dead eggs. Ugh, he should of been left in there longer. Next spawn he will stay in with the fry for as long as possible. But a part of me didn't want to push my luck with him being too good of a dad for being his first time.

When I moved him he had a few fry in his mouth.. poor daddy.. poor little fry. Having newborn fry is nerve wracking >.<


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## Option

Nice. So I have never tried breeding in a tub (i.e., out of view) do you find that it is more successful than doing it in the traditional aquarium?


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## flyingpony22

I LOVE that female. Such pretty coloring. So unique!


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## logisticsguy

It sure is nerve wracking and full of tough decisions. I like to experiment a bit as well it keeps things interesting. Love your fish and good luck with the spawn.


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## Myates

Thanks guys!

Option, so far yes.. I am also trying with bowls - but hate not being able to see inside of them. But the tubs force them to pay attention to only each other, no hiding, nothing but seeing each other.

And nerve wracking is just the tip of the iceburg lol.

Here are a few blurry pics of the newly hatched fry.. a few dozen that I can see so far.. in a few days will get them out of the tub (holes in tub so water is the same as in the tank), then I can get a better view of them. They are just the tiniest of specks right now (those white dots in front and behind the leaf)


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## MattsBettas

Ooh looking good!


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## Myates

Thanks! Just got another pair to spawn today.. both virgins. lol.. no pics yet, they just finished and don't want to disturb daddy.

The pair and the set up:


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## polukoff

Sorry if I overlooked this but why is it that you use a bowl inside of a tank? Do you dump the fry into the tank once they hatch?


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## Hadoken Kitty

Oh wow how suspenseful! Pics ASAP.


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## dramaqueen

I can't wait to see what the fry look like. I might want one. lol Not until I get moved, though. *sigh*


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## Myates

LOL drama.. it's okay, I'll add it to the stockpile I have that is growing for you already hehehehe 

Will take more pics of the first set when I get them out of the tub, same with the ones in the bowl, hard to get a camera in there lol



polukoff said:


> Sorry if I overlooked this but why is it that you use a bowl inside of a tank? Do you dump the fry into the tank once they hatch?


Breaking in a ton of virgins, and for some reason they refuse to breed in the tanks for me.. I've kept the tanks bare, lots of plants, semi planted, partitioned off for smaller space.. and they would live together peacefully for a couple weeks until I gave up. Even the best breeding male who has had lots of spawns couldn't get them to give it up.

So, another breeder I know breeds exclusively in bowls (doesn't put the bowls in the tank though), so thought I would give it a try. 

The mindset is that they can now only focus on one another, no distractions... no room to run away and hide, which can get one or both out of the "mood". Another benefit to using such small containers is it's a lot easier for the fry to find food, not as big of an area to cover. And it makes cleaning easier as you have less to siphon out.

The other breeder keeps her area heated so she doesn't need the tank, but I don't do that so I needed a way to keep the bowl warm.. so placed it in the tank lol. My small plastic bins (the first spawn on this log) I placed semi-small holes around the lower sides to help mix in the water from the tank into the bin.. once the fry start to free swim around and are a tiny bit bigger, I will release them into the tank to grow out some (before going into the 30g).

The bowl is a bit trickier, unsure if I like it.. wouldn't be bad if I had a drill to drill in holes to the bowl. But since I don't I plan on adding some of the tank water (very slowly) whenever I clean out the bowl and hope that I can get the fry adjusted to the tank water enough to gently tip them into the tank.

These were my first attempts outside of the "normal 10g" set up.. and I'm pleased with the result - first pair got the job done in a few hours, the second only took a couple days (both virgins) after I started leaving them alone (kept bugging them because I didn't like to see the waste on the bottom.. eventually I just let them be).

So over all - much quicker, better success with the bowls/bins - did notice though that the males really hurt the girls.. thinking it is because the female can't get too far from them after the spawn, so for me personally I will have to watch more closely to ensure the health of the female. Both have a lot of wounds, but are eating great and active.


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## MiyuMikaelson

Can NOT wait to see some of the fry's. How exciting.
C:


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## dramaqueen

How many does it make now for me, Meredith? 3 or 4? lol


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## Myates

lol not enough! 


Update - first spawn I can see a few hundred wee ones in there.. they are all about horizontal now. Feeding on infusoria, going to introduce some cultures and possibly BBS today. Will probably move them into the tank from the tub sometime over the next couple of days.

Second spawn was a bust.. something went wrong with the pair and only a few eggs were laid. She was still huge, so reset them and last I saw of them last night he was furiously working on a nest and she would be head down waiting. They are figuring it out.. both are virgins, so can't expect all to be like the previous pairing 

If I don't get anything in the next few days from the second pair I'll separate and recondition. Hoping this pair breeds soon... since my tanks are on double racks, don't want to disturb them while I set up a 3rd spawn tank. If they don't, I will wait.. getting 5 new fish today, so may just wait to breed a couple of those.. elephant/dumbo ears are next I am hoping.


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## Myates

Look for the black dots of their eyes! Babies!

(and new cultures from Basement Bettas)


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## Option

Give us another update! I'm curious to see how the fry will look.


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## dramaqueen

Me, too.


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## Caii

So exciting!!! Your female of the first pair is absolutely beautiful!!! ^^


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## Myates

lol thanks!

I will take some pictures tomorrow.. they are a little bit bigger and eating like pigs! Feeding them a mix of BBS, vinegar eels, micro worms, walter worms and banana worms. Was able to watch one chase after one of the worms trying to eat it.. was so cute. 

So far I know that I have lost 3 for a fact, haven't ran across any others just yet. Still looking at a couple - few hundred. Have a drip system going for the last 1.5 days, just about a gallon is in there now.. so slowly working. Been cleaning with a turkey baster, anything else at this point would get them.

All is good!


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## Caii

Can't wait to see how everything turns out~ ^_^


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## logisticsguy

Very nice Myates! You have a neat system there and all that live food is just ideal. A hungry fry is a healthy fry and its amazing how handy a turkey baster can be. Good luck and enjoy the hundreds of hours looking after the lil monsters in the next few months.


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## Myates

lol thanks guys 

I need to clean their tank so badly.. put a snail in there for now to help with the dead food.. but had to wait until I got some more water added and until I can safely see the fry. They are currently going on 5 days old now.. so still a ways before I feel secure in doing bigger water changes heh.


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## dramaqueen

I was just going to ask you how old they were. lol Almost a week old.


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## Marvel170

The dad looks awesome, but the mom looks so unique. my jaw literally dropped when I saw her (for the first pair) Goodluck with the babies


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## dramaqueen

Meredith, are there any updates?


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## acitydweller

keen to see your progress here.


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## MiyuMikaelson

Myates said:


> lol not enough!
> 
> 
> Update - first spawn I can see a few hundred wee ones in there.. they are all about horizontal now. Feeding on infusoria, going to introduce some cultures and possibly BBS today. Will probably move them into the tank from the tub sometime over the next couple of days.
> 
> Second spawn was a bust.. something went wrong with the pair and only a few eggs were laid. She was still huge, so reset them and last I saw of them last night he was furiously working on a nest and she would be head down waiting. They are figuring it out.. both are virgins, so can't expect all to be like the previous pairing
> 
> If I don't get anything in the next few days from the second pair I'll separate and recondition. Hoping this pair breeds soon... since my tanks are on double racks, don't want to disturb them while I set up a 3rd spawn tank. If they don't, I will wait.. getting 5 new fish today, so may just wait to breed a couple of those.. elephant/dumbo ears are next I am hoping.


How exciting for the first batch; and that the second are trying hard.


I'm dying to see the color patterns and tails from your babies.
C:


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## Myates

Me too! Okay, update time  

They have been growing, but still very small and hard to take a picture of.. but here are some I took tonight. They are about 12 days old now and doing good.

Still eating like piggies, as you can see in some of the pictures, there are wormies swimming around.. a mix of Micro, banana and walter.. yum!

Youtube being weird, will try uploading the video tomorrow.. but at least there are pictures


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## Hadoken Kitty

Omg. SO CUTE!!!!


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## Myates

They are lol.. should see them when they are "hunting" the worms.. and when they catch them sometimes the back end of the worm will be sticking out of their mouths.. lol.


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## Hadoken Kitty

LOL. I guess these leads me to ask you something. When is the best time to switch from infusoria to worms? How do I know when they'll be ready for larger food like that?


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## Myates

I really didn't have any infusoria - whatever was around when they were born. I didn't add any.

After their egg sacs have gone away (usually a couple days after hatching) they can start to eat. I started them on the worms listed, and BBS here and there as well. So far no issues eating, etc. As long as the food moves and is small enough, they should be fine. Infusoria isn't a must.. it helps, and is good for them, but I just couldn't get enough to make it worthwhile so I just tossed in my plants when I set up the tank and let it do it's own thing - and started feeding them when I saw some egg sacs depleted.


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## Hadoken Kitty

Alright. I wasn't sure. Thanks for making it clear! Can't wait to give this another shot when I get the chance. I got worried about my girl when she ran into the tank wall and dazed herself during the courtship (I use weird terms when I can't think of the technical ones, sorry), so I cut that spawn attempt off early. I hope to get cute little fry like yours soon. :3


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## Myates

lol you pretty much said it right, no technical term for "oops!" 

Sometimes it can get rough.. for my last two they were just fine until the very end, right before they actually bred.. that's when it got really rough. Thought I almost lost the momma to this spawn, but she's doing great now.. healing up fine and eating good.


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## Hadoken Kitty

Thinking I might grab one of my bigger girls from my sorority now and then re-acclimate them after the conditioning. No one seems to have any defined areas in the sorority. Everyone just kinda swims everywhere. Though I think this girl is bigger than the boy...which may make things difficult. xD

Still.....I want the cute fry sooo bad!!! Fishies need to get in the mood.


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## Myates

lol virgins aren't always easy.. before this spawn I spent a couple months trying to get a couple virgin girls "in the mood".. they wouldn't give it up, regardless of having bellies full of eggs. Sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes it takes the right pairing.

The other pair that I mentioned took a week to do the deed, both virgins. This pair with the fry it took mere hours, the male was a virgin. So, you never really know.. why I say patience is a big part of breeding, I had to learn it.


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## Myates

They hit the two week mark a couple days ago - a good number of them I can see dorsals coming in, all have pectoral fins now.

Saw one today struggling to swim.. if he passes (ended up losing him in the crowd), then he will be my 3rd confirmed death  He was close to it, but he ended up wiggling sideways into a grouping of plants so couldn't find him. He didn't look to have much more strength left in him. He was a good sized one too.


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## Hadoken Kitty

Awwwww. What a bummer.  I hope it makes it! It would be like the little fishy that could!


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## Myates

lol.. he struggled.. was able to get up to the top of the tank a couple of times.. when I tried to scoop him out his siblings swam up thinking I was feeding them and I lost him in the shuffle, ended up scooping out another lol (in a styrofoam cup).. I looked in the cup and these two little black eyes were looking up at me as if I were a space ship and I just abducted him lol. 

Didn't see a dead body when I fed them this evening about 15 minutes ago.. so we'll see.


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## Hadoken Kitty

LOL that poor thing! I can't imagine being a little fish. You just blew his mind. He'll be the hardest one to scoop from now on. xD

I sure hope he makes it! How cute of a story would that be. :3


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## louisvillelady

lol why is it when you want to scoop them out, you can't no matter how hard you try. Yet, if you just want a cup of water from their tank, you end up with three or four in the cup.lol murpheys law I guess.lol


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## dramaqueen

Aww, poor little thing. I hope he'll be ok.


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## Myates

Unsure what happened to him.. never found a body. Have yet to find any bodies in this spawn and it still looks to be at least a couple hundred fry.

They are starting to get larger water changes now, and starting to add a bit of dry fry food into their tank in hopes some will start eating it.


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## Destinystar

Totally adorable !!!! I hope the poor little one makes it !


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## Myates

lol me too  I'm surprised to see you and DQ here, I figured you would be tired of my fish ramblings on FB by now 

Well, I'm starting to cut back on micro worms now (which reminds me I need to make up a few more batches of banana and walter worms.. my micros are exploding in population and the others are having a hard time keeping up, so I end up feeding more micros than I want), and I will up the BBS some.. up the water changes a bit.. going to try to get some size on them. Some are right on par with the average, but there are a few tiny ones still in there. With so many babies it's nerve wracking making sure everything is just right. Don't want to over do feedings.. yet don't want them to starve, etc. 

So.. all I can do is just keep chugging along with what I have been doing, as it seems to be working out great so far


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## GhostFeather

How long are they in the tub(bowl)before you release them into the tank?


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## Myates

I waited until they were free swimming - so 3-5 days. Can wait longer.. makes clean up a bit easier while they are in the tub, as well as feeding. So any time after they have been free swimming for a day or two.


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## Myates

This was taken a couple days ago - 21 days old. Doesn't show just how many there are, but if I shook the plants you would see at least a 25% increase lol.. 

Still haven't found a dead body, so any that have died have been few enough that the bodies are eaten easily/quickly. The amount still looks to be the same as day one. Will count once I start moving them to the 30g grow outs.

I have found that the cultures of food tend to stick on the green "decoration" a good amount which makes it easier on the fry to grab without rooting on the floor as much. Will be getting more of those!


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## Hadoken Kitty

I found you on facebook! I recognize that green thing! Lol. What is it exactly?


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## Myates

Just a decoration I found at Petco.. was going to place it (and some clear colored plastic hamster tubes) in the grow outs to give them places to hide/play in. But decided to throw this one in the fry tank to give them another object to hide around.

I thought I recognized you in a post or two on FB.. but wasn't sure.. LSB?


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## logisticsguy

That looks terrific Myates. Very nice work and impressive amount of fry!


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## Myates

Thank you!


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## alunjai

That's really cool!! There's so many of them. Will take you a while to name them all  The 2 smaller ones that I have are similar colour and in size to yours. But my larger ones are quite dark... much browny grey colour... Is that normal as they get bigger?


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## Hadoken Kitty

Myates said:


> Just a decoration I found at Petco.. was going to place it (and some clear colored plastic hamster tubes) in the grow outs to give them places to hide/play in. But decided to throw this one in the fry tank to give them another object to hide around.
> 
> I thought I recognized you in a post or two on FB.. but wasn't sure.. LSB?


Yes, LSB! Haha. How much was it? I was thinking of just leaving a log in mine, lol.


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## soady

They are amazing!


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## Myates

alunjai said:


> That's really cool!! There's so many of them. Will take you a while to name them all  The 2 smaller ones that I have are similar colour and in size to yours. But my larger ones are quite dark... much browny grey colour... Is that normal as they get bigger?


They will become grey/brown/black as they get bigger.. it's a form of camouflage for them. It will take a few more weeks before you start seeing their colors come out more and the camouflage to lessen. So it's perfectly normal to see the brown/grey, with coloring coming in around the 2-3 months of age.

Also keep in mind, I forgot to mention.. a lot of times you will see breeder "speed/power grow" their fry - so that they are show size/breeding ready by 3 months of age. That isn't normal.. if you let the fish grow naturally it takes a bit longer - can be up to 7-8 months before fully grown rather than 3 months. 
I'm not power growing mine - so they are on the average size for their age. 
But if you want to get your little ones grown quicker then more water changes will speed it up.



Hadoken Kitty said:


> Yes, LSB! Haha. How much was it? I was thinking of just leaving a log in mine, lol.


I believe $10, there were a few different sizes. A log is great.. I just used it because my grow out tanks are like colorful playgrounds for them and I wanted to stick with the theme lol



soady said:


> They are amazing!


Thank you  Love those little ones!


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## alunjai

I change my water once a day and around 50%. I always try to siphon as much uneaten food as I can and replace the water before feed. Would you consider this normal for water changes? Or shall I change more and more often?


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## logisticsguy

alunjai said:


> I change my water once a day and around 50%. I always try to siphon as much uneaten food as I can and replace the water before feed. Would you consider this normal for water changes? Or shall I change more and more often?


Actually 50% is pretty good. Every few days I like to add a 70% in as well but you wont get much hormone build up with the way your going.


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## ashleigheperry

Can't wait to see how these gorgeous babies turn out!
Any idea how/if you'll be homing them all? C:


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## Myates

Selling them through Aquabid, friends on FB, Ebay, add in newspaper, here on the forums, etc.. had a local store here wanting to purchase them, but Petco moved in and they went out of business.. but Petco fish manager did express interest in seeing if they could sell some of my fish.. would be cool 

I will post more pictures soon.. they are at 30 days now and going to set up their 30g grow out today and see about transferring them over. They are getting a bit crowded in the 10. 

Have 4 more pairs I am debating on which will be next.. have a couple spawn tanks open, so will see. Either going the Elephant ear route (both short and long finned), DTHM route or just HMs. 

But for now will start moving the fry over.. give them some space to grow. Will start with only partial water in the tank and then use a drip system to continuously add in clean water.


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## Myates

Moved them to the grow out tank.. I counted them. I was estimating around 200 fry.

Boy was I wrong...

I stopped counting at 500, rough estimate now is 530-550 fry.

The 30g isn't going to hold them all in a few weeks lol.. will have to set up another.


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## logisticsguy

Wow! :shock: I guess that spawning technique worked out OK then.

Nice work Myates! 500+ amazing. I thought it looked like a pretty heavy in the pics.


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## Silverrealm

This is a really cool thread! Keep up the good work!


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## ashleigheperry

I'd probably be interested in 5-6 females at some point if you'll have that many to spare (I'm guessing you will with over 500 to choose from!). 

I'll keep my eyes open for a classified thread. (;


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## dramaqueen

I'm sure there will be plenty of females to go around.


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## Myates

Thanks guys  And yes, I will have that many to spare! And I just found a whole seller who is willing to take any spares I have.. so hoping I don't have to cull too heavily 

FB friends and forum members get first dibs before I list on Aquabid


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## Myates

This is the place/person that wants to buy any I don't sell myself - luckily this person lives about 45 mins from me or so, which makes it even better  Will be doing consignment sales, which means I'll be bringing in some money from them  50/50 split on sales.. better than culling them!


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## louisvillelady

WOWZERS Myates!! This is fabulous! That many fry and plenty of ways to get them homes! I cannot wait to see the coloring. Both are beautiful, but the females colors are so cheerful! Hoping maybe I'll be able to get me a male with those colors. fingers crossed! Congrats!


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## alunjai

500+??!! Wow! If you only you shipped to HK ha ha...


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## Myates

lol thanks!

I am hoping to get some unique looking fins lol.. and yeah, I have no idea how to ship out of country 

I just realized I will be taking a TON of pictures O.O


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## soady

Congratulations on the massive amount of fry! Hope they *all *stay well.


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## Skyewillow

My curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to check out your thread and WOW! 500+ babies!!

It's great that you've had such a success with your spawnings, especially since that Tiger lady of yours was known to be aggressive to the males! 

If you do breed some EE's, let me know, I'd love to watch that spawn grow up, I love them!

Congratulations, and Good luck!


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## Myates

Thank you  Got two pairs of EEs conditioning as of today - one long finned HM and the other is HMPK. So will have both long and short finned EEs for people to choose from.. I hope lol. If not, have plenty of other pairs to try out.. but the females are real responsive to the males, and both males seem to love their respective future mates. So just gotta get them eggy and ready!


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## dramaqueen

I can't wait to get one! I wish 2 sisters could live peacefully in a 5 gallon.


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## Skyewillow

Too bad I'm at my limit, I'd snap up an EE girl from you if/when they're ready!

Dramaqueen, divider?


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## MattsBettas

+1. I divide 5g with no problem.


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## Jayloo

I need a pic updat...


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## dramaqueen

Yeah but I don't want to have to cycle a tank. *sigh* I might have to to save space.


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## Skyewillow

yeeeeeeees... dooo itttttttt....

I mean what? I said nothing. :-D


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## Myates

I took some pics and a vid last night, will upload today 

DQ- honestly, many breeders keep 2-3 girls together in 5 gallons with no issues at all. I know some who keep 2 girls together fine in 3 gallons. Yes, it's easier to have more, etc, etc.. but it is possible if the females aren't overly aggressive. They may posture and fight for dominance at the beginning, but they could easily settle down and live peacefully together with no problems. Sibling females don't mean it's easier for them to get along - it's about the individual fish.

If you are wanting, let me know when they are big enough and I can pick out the prettiest 2 girls that are also the most gentle and send them to you  I can also hold them together in a tank to see how they are just the 2 of them before sending them to you - have spare 3-6 gallon tanks I could use.

And don't worry about cycling - in all of my 20 years of keeping fish I let the tanks cycle on their own. I just do regular water changes and have never had deaths/issues related to a cycling tank. Doesn't mean things can't go wrong, but generally as long as you do the water changes regularly you shouldn't have an issue.

But let me know what you want.. I still have that yellow meanie on hold for you if you still want her - if not she will have a different home.. or I just may keep her and try breeding her again down the road. Or you can get some sisters from me, etc. Also, if you have the room, keep in mind that a 10g tends to be the same price, sometimes cheaper, than a 5g - at the Walmart where I live a 10g tank (minus the heater) set up (tank + lid + filter + light) is $30. The Tetra preset heaters for 5-15g works fine - I have a few of those (one in a 1.75g tank, another in a 6.6g tank and in a 10g plant tank) with no issues - Walmart sells them cheaply as well. Or can get one from Petco  

So when the time comes after you move and you see what space you have, just let me know! If you go the 10g route you can have room for 3-4 males or 6 girls  If not, the 5g should be fine and I'll send you a couple girls.

I'm easy to work with lol  And I won't lie - hey, it may not be "ideal" to have 2 girls in a smaller tank, but it's actually doable and they can live happy and healthy together. Just don't tell anyone I said that


----------



## Myates

Took these last night at their nightly feeding of banana and walter worms. It looks like a lot of food, but with so many fry and the snail, by morning the bottom is clear of food lol. 

Here is also a video I took of them  The blue fish saying hi for a moment is my 2yr old Anya who is a blue VT girl - she's the resident bully, bigger than any male I have, even my 3-4yr old Xander lol. She is currently in my EE's tank (while 2 EE pairs are being conditioned to breed) while her and Xander's tank is going through a deep cleaning to rid of a lot of algae that has gotten out of hand. Xander is in the 10g below Anya (not in video), and he is a bit upset not being able to see his arch nemesis and 18 month neighbor Anya, so his tail is a bit ragged and therefor not in the mood to say hi.

Enjoy!


----------



## Jayloo

How old are the little ones now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Myates

33 days 

These pictures and the video was taken last night, so there they are 32. Such a big spawn they aren't growing really quickly, but still in the healthy range


----------



## Skyewillow

What a pout on that baby in your avatar! XD
They look really good!


----------



## Myates

Thanks! It does look like it's pouting lol.. it actually has a mouth full of worms though


----------



## Skyewillow

in THAT case:
He or she seems to be saying "What? No ketchup?!"

lol


----------



## Myates

Lol


----------



## Xaltd1

AWESOME, Myates!
THANK YOU for being such a great mentor.


----------



## Jayloo

Any color yet?


----------



## Myates

Aww.. welcome Xaltd!

Just cellophane showing right now.. some have gotten a HUGE boost in size since I moved them on Monday.. usually about 6-8 weeks they will start showing more color, these guys are just under 5 right now


----------



## dramaqueen

I can't wait until they start showing color. I'm trying to decide if I want a male or female.


----------



## Skyewillow

dramaqueen said:


> I can't wait until they start showing color. I'm trying to decide if I want a male or female.


one of each, of course ;-)


----------



## dramaqueen

Hmm.... well... yeah, I could do that. Lol


----------



## Skyewillow

I'm definitely not encouraging or enabling you though XD


----------



## Myates

lol! Well, if you get the 5g I can send you a couple girls  And a boy.. how about 60 of them? 300?


----------



## dramaqueen

Skyewillow said:


> I'm definitely not encouraging or enabling you though XD


Oh, no, definitely not! Lol


----------



## Artemis

Dang girly! You are knee deep in bettas! Keep posting! I am too full to buy sadly, and a bit to far away anyway but can't wait to see how they turn out.


----------



## Jayloo

I'm interested in the updates as well.


----------



## Myates

Thanks guys  Will keep it updated!


----------



## GhostFeather

When you introduce your female to the tub,do you just put her in,or do you put her in a chimney?
I am interested in trying this method,my tub will be put in a 10G like yours.
Bill


----------



## Myates

I put her in the chimney for anywhere from 8-24hrs depending upon how ready she is. This one was in the chimney for about 15hrs or so. 

I know one breeder (who I got this method from, but she uses just bowls) just places them in together without a waiting period - but I want to make sure the male is ready as well.. give him time to work on a nest and to go from territorial in a new space to wanting to attract her. So at least some time separated has worked best for me. 

This spawn only took a few hours at the most before starting to spawn - female has spawned before a couple of times, the male was new at it. Another spawn I had going at the same time took a week to get it together, both being virgins. But I made the mistake of bothering them with food/clean up for the first few days which could of played a part in why it took that long.

With this spawn I covered the front of the tank with dish towels/wash rags (taped with masking tape) to avoid them seeing me (not seen in picture).. leaving an inch at the top to peek in. 

Once the two females I have conditioning now are ready I will be doing it this way again - one with the semi transparent blue tub and one with a clear tub to see if it makes a difference whether they can see out of the tub or not.

Make sure to poke some holes in the sides so the water will be the same to make transferring very easy - I used the pointy edge of bottle/can opener (seen below) to start the hole, then finished the hole with a metal meat thermometer that was thin and sharp.. but can probably use a phillips screw driver or a small power drill for the holes. But these are what I had laying around the house and what worked for me. The water level will be low, as at some point the plastic starts to float.. going to see if making more holes makes a difference as well. This was my first time using this method, which has worked a lot better than the method of using a 10g with hiding places. So I'm still tweaking it a bit.

Good luck!


----------



## GhostFeather

Thanks!
I have 2 breeding tanks that are ready to go,I am going to try the tubs.
Bill


----------



## Myates

Good luck, let us know how they go


----------



## GhostFeather

I will,moving the males now.
Bill


----------



## SamJustice

Oh. I just found this! So interesting. I can't wait to see just how they'll look. I may take a boy, when they're ready. So I'll be keeping my eye on this. =3


----------



## Myates

lol thanks  And sure!

I did a cull today.. not as much as I originally planned.. only did around 50-100. Sadness...

Started with trying to siphon out the small ones.. but they were too quick. Then used a net which wasn't too bad as long as they weren't at the side of the tank.. 
The I started using a 32oz cup to take out water and was able to grab more that way. Ugh.. will cull a little more each water change. Hate doing it this early, but have to bring the numbers down some in order for the survivors to grow/flourish. Otherwise I would need to purchase a few more 30gs just to hold them all. So for now, have them split up between 2 30gs.


----------



## Xaltd1

Couldn't you get a couple of rubbermaid storage tubs w/ heaters to grow them out?
How do you cull?


----------



## bettacrazygirl86

I wish I were able to start my sorority now! I'd take a few girls from you.


----------



## Myates

They won't be ready for another 1-2 months... so you have time  lol

Xalltd1-
Yes and no.. I could get more containers, but it will still mean I have well over 500 juveniles to care for - if 300+ are males (bred them in higher temps) then that means 300+ jars cleaning daily, etc etc.. it's a lot of work. Just doing the water changes on the two grow out tanks daily with an airline tubing and having to be careful not to suck up fry I don't want to cull.. replacing a total of 30+ gallons slowly and careful.. that takes an hour+ easily. Add in I have about 15+ individual small tanks for the breeding pairs and a few that need to grow up a bit more that will be bred in F1 and F2 series of my show fish.. so all of those individual containers + checking to make sure they are healthy, etc is another hour+. Also have plant tanks among community tanks (raising baby Ancistrus plecos and pregnant balloon mollies as well, and pet bettas..) and the feedings, which varies based on each fish (type of fish, age/size and preferences).. so my day for just cleaning and feeding takes roughly 4 hours total. 

So adding in another couple hours with a couple extra grow outs and then hundreds more of jars.. it's a lot. Have a house to run, an 8 yr old autistic daughter, a dog, boyfriend and I'm a gamer.. all competing for attention as well. lol This was meant to be a small hobby lol. But a spawn this size, that has survived this long isn't common/normal.. and honestly it's recommended I cull to a reasonable amount. Give them a healthier life rather than a stunted, fighting for food kind of life.

As for culling.. and I use Clove oil and antacid tablets to put them to sleep. The I placed them outside in the garden.


Myates said:


> Started with trying to siphon out the small ones.. but they were too quick. Then used a net which wasn't too bad as long as they weren't at the side of the tank..
> The I started using a 32oz cup to take out water and was able to grab more that way. Ugh.. will cull a little more each water change. Hate doing it this early, but have to bring the numbers down some in order for the survivors to grow/flourish. Otherwise I would need to purchase a few more 30gs just to hold them all. So for now, have them split up between 2 30gs.


----------



## Xaltd1

Wow! That's what I call a full plate! 
I hadn't heard of antacids.
I have more time on my hands & I could easily handle more pets, BUT I have limited space. Isn't that always the way? When I had my big house, I had a child, dogs, cats, a job & pottery studio, a pond & garden...


----------



## bettacrazygirl86

Even in one to two months, I won't be able to take them.  Not unless I get my 10 gallon and something happens to Patriot, which I really hope nothing does. He's my baby. <3 Since I'm going off to college, I can only have a 10 gallon, and I could only have a small sorority in that, once it's planted and cycled. That's why, when I do get a sorority going, I want to get directly from a breeder so I can get siblings.  That way they might get along better if they grew up together. I can't have a sorority unless something happens to Patriot though, since half of the 10 is gonna be his.


----------



## dramaqueen

Culling is sad but you've got to do what you've got to do.


----------



## Jayloo

Lots of times this is why I only condition my female for 1 week. Some websites you will read to condition them for 2+ weeks but I never do because they become TOO eggy. I usually feed them great for 5-7 days and let her go at it. Most of the time I get 100-150 and then have some die off but it's better than tending 500 fish and saves me the pain or guilt of killing them off. When I do cull I just feed them to the Oscar. At least that way they are being used... As nutrients.


----------



## tari5thatsme2

I am new here, and I have to say, seeing this post is just wonderful!!!!! Those babies are soooooo cute. I have 2 bettas now, both males, but I want to start a sorority soon. How much do they cost, and how do you ship them?


----------



## Myates

Xaltd1 said:


> Wow! That's what I call a full plate!
> I hadn't heard of antacids.
> I have more time on my hands & I could easily handle more pets, BUT I have limited space. Isn't that always the way? When I had my big house, I had a child, dogs, cats, a job & pottery studio, a pond & garden...


lol.. yeah even one more fish I will be overwhelmed lol



bettacrazygirl86 said:


> Even in one to two months, I won't be able to take them.  Not unless I get my 10 gallon and something happens to Patriot, which I really hope nothing does. He's my baby. <3 Since I'm going off to college, I can only have a 10 gallon, and I could only have a small sorority in that, once it's planted and cycled. That's why, when I do get a sorority going, I want to get directly from a breeder so I can get siblings.  That way they might get along better if they grew up together. I can't have a sorority unless something happens to Patriot though, since half of the 10 is gonna be his.


Ahh I understand  I don't blame you either! Keep in mind though, it's not always guaranteed to have friendlier siblings from a breeder. Honestly it's a toss up either way you go with about the same chances of aggression. It's dependent upon each fish personally, rather than whether they are used to it. As by the time the fish are shipped, etc, they have "reset" and it doesn't matter whether they are siblings at that point.



dramaqueen said:


> Culling is sad but you've got to do what you've got to do.


Yes.. but don't worry, will have plenty to send you! lol.. still want 300? 



Jayloo said:


> Lots of times this is why I only condition my female for 1 week. Some websites you will read to condition them for 2+ weeks but I never do because they become TOO eggy. I usually feed them great for 5-7 days and let her go at it. Most of the time I get 100-150 and then have some die off but it's better than tending 500 fish and saves me the pain or guilt of killing them off. When I do cull I just feed them to the Oscar. At least that way they are being used... As nutrients.


It has nothing to do with how long you condition.. it's based upon age of female, size of female for the most part. New breeders/young females tend to have less naturally. As they age and become experienced they release more.. this particular female has been spawned multiple times, is 1/3 bigger than any of my other females.. and she was only conditioned for 5 days.
Length of conditioning time plays no factor.. as the eggs will become ripe at the same time..



tari5thatsme2 said:


> I am new here, and I have to say, seeing this post is just wonderful!!!!! Those babies are soooooo cute. I have 2 bettas now, both males, but I want to start a sorority soon. How much do they cost, and how do you ship them?


Thank you  Generally you can get most females cheaper from breeders, a lot of times free with purchases of males... it all depends on whether you want ones that are breed worthy or just some really pretty ones but don't have the "perfect" spread, topline, etc. For the ones that I won't sell for breeding purposes I would probably sell them for $3 each.. shipping is the standard $35 overnight. Ship in small bags, heat pack if the weather is too cool for them.. generally I recommend over night, as it can still take 2 days to arrive.. sometimes they can last longer, depending on the temp outside and how long the heat pack lasts. And you mail through regular US Post Office.


----------



## Option

Myates said:


> I did a cull today.. not as much as I originally planned.. only did around 50-100. Sadness...


Good grief. In my largest past spawns I've never had to cull that many at once. How are you picking this many out? The strange swimming ones or clearly dying ones only? I would guess not if you're taking out that many at once.


----------



## dramaqueen

I just want some pet quality ones. I wish 2 sisters could live in a 5 gallon peacefully. *sigh*


----------



## Myates

I was picking out the smallest.. I have no weak/ill/sick babies.. why I only had seen 2 natural deaths in all this time. So I was going for the smaller ones.

And I told you DQ - I can pick out 2-3 very pretty girls for you, house them together in a 6g and see how they do. If they bicker I will look for another to replace.. will pick out the most docile ones  This way you have a better chance at them being good together..


----------



## SamJustice

Huh. Myates I might ask you to do that too if I can get another tank before they're ready. I always wanted a sorority, but don't have the space for another 10 just yet. So, if I could get a six gallon or so, and find a suitable space, I might have to ask you to do that, if it's no trouble.
I'll start re-arranging and looking now for space and aquariums. Lol. xD


----------



## dramaqueen

I'd have to get a 5-6 gallon tank when I get to Texas. Hmm, I'll have to think about it. I know I want 1 male and 1 female.


----------



## Myates

Keep in mind DQ - unless you are short on space, a 10g at Walmart is cheaper than any 5g you will find. 

And sure thing Sam  I have a couple tanks that I can put some in to see how they do. I figured the 6g would be good as it's right next to my pc (the larger tanks for growing fish + plants are in another room).. this way I can watch them more closely if they are next to me when I'm not busy with the other fish. 

I know it's not "recommended" nor "ideal" to house 2-3 girls together, but it is doable and is done by a lot of people I know. As long as the water changes are done correctly, and there are enough hiding places.. and the females in particular are more docile then it can be doable. There will be a risk, as there are with all sororities, and even more so with it being a smaller tank. And I don't normally recommend it to people.. but this way I know that the ones I send out are going to be even tempered. I'll keep them together for as long as needed to make sure that the "newness" is worn off with them and judge their behavior then. Prior to placing them in together I will keep the females separated from all other fish in a .33g keeper (each) and in the dark for 24-48hrs to "simulate" shipping as best as I can.. and then place them together in the tank. See how they do with a "reset". Unsure how much of a difference that will make, but it's worth a try. 

I don't mind making sure people get what they want


----------



## Xaltd1

I had 2 girls in a 5 gal hex for months w/ no problem.

One day Gilly had a nip mark on her head & I separated them, then reunited them in a large sorority. Who's to say that 1 nip was the start of something, or that it was a nip at all? I was being overly cautious.


----------



## SamJustice

Cool. Awesome.
I'll start looking at tanks and finding a space for another six gallon.


----------



## Xaltd1

The only problem in my sorority is that I have 2 EEs. Their lovely "ears" are always in tatters. I never see fighting (only adorable, hungry little faces, innocent as can be), so I blamed it on my hard water- but wait! Butch, my male EE, has perfect fins. Hhmm. No other ragged/nipped fins on any of the girls.


----------



## Myates

Sam, these babies won't be ready for another 2 months or so.. they are just going to hit 6 weeks on Monday (25th), and should be at least 12+ weeks before being sold.. I'm not power growing so I probably won't be getting them out until 14 weeks at the minimum. Unless they have a growth spurt lol. 

No colors to their fins yet, but their bodies are pale and iridescent/cellophane. So looking at having pale skin tones with cellophane, and some with white dragon scales. Unsure about the fin colors at this time though. There are some with white-ish fins in there so we'll see!


----------



## Alcemistnv

Myatess has a spaawwwnnn c:

I'm literally going through all the spawn logs trying to find out where to get sorority girls from xD


----------



## dramaqueen

I'd like one with white dragon scales!


----------



## Alcemistnv

IF I get one, I'd prefer one that looks like Daddy C:


----------



## Myates

lol  I will keep you all updated with photos.. don't forget Alcemistnv, check in with me on FB too. Just realized we aren't "friends", and I don't post a ton on BL.. this way if you decide you do want one down the road from any of my spawns you can see them there and get a hold of me easier there 

Going to release one of the EE pairs today.. hoping for a spawn. Next is a show line spawn in a couple weeks 

And I'll look for some and send you pics DQ of course


----------



## bettasareawesome

So about how many are there? I want one! Need money, space, tank, oh.:-(

EDIT: I forgot to say, good luck!


----------



## SamJustice

Myates said:


> Sam, these babies won't be ready for another 2 months or so.. they are just going to hit 6 weeks on Monday (25th), and should be at least 12+ weeks before being sold.. I'm not power growing so I probably won't be getting them out until 14 weeks at the minimum. Unless they have a growth spurt lol.
> 
> No colors to their fins yet, but their bodies are pale and iridescent/cellophane. So looking at having pale skin tones with cellophane, and some with white dragon scales. Unsure about the fin colors at this time though. There are some with white-ish fins in there so we'll see!


It'll take me a bit to get another tank set up too. xD

They sound like they'll be so gorgeous. =3


----------



## Alcemistnv

Myates said:


> lol  I will keep you all updated with photos.. don't forget Alcemistnv, check in with me on FB too. Just realized we aren't "friends", and I don't post a ton on BL.. this way if you decide you do want one down the road from any of my spawns you can see them there and get a hold of me easier there
> 
> Going to release one of the EE pairs today.. hoping for a spawn. Next is a show line spawn in a couple weeks
> 
> And I'll look for some and send you pics DQ of course



Sounds good! 

I'll let you know once I return and see what I'm doing with the girls c:
Do you know when the fish will be ready approximately?


----------



## Myates

Thanks.. I culled about a 100 so far, which leaves me roughly 450 - will be culling again tonight. 

They are 6 weeks today, once there are fewer their growth will increase. They won't be ready for another 6-8 weeks. I can hold some as well if need be. I'll have the forum and my FB friends first dibs before I list any on AB/Ebay and the wholeseller will get whatever I don't sell. I'll make sure to take pictures of them all - I'm going to try to keep at least a 100 at the end.

Have 2 EE pairs in spawn tanks currently - one pair are HMPK EEs, the other long finned HM EEs.. will try to get both to spawn (both pairs virgins, and it's snowing here so it is iffy if they will breed).. then will be a show line of AOC cambodians that I will be working on for a few generations.. male is show, female is the mother of these spawns.. then will breed in a couple females to remove any red they have, etc. The father is the male in my avatar.. he ate his fins during shipment, and he isn't showing his best in the picture, but you can get the idea.. the AOC is "any other color" cambodian - light bodies with multi colored fins.  So if there isn't something in this spawn anyone is interested in, I will have other options coming up


----------



## Alcemistnv

nice 

I just need to see how things go for now. I'm hoping that both of my girls are alive when I return, and I told my mom that I was buying the bookshelf. If I do, I will be putting 5 girls in there, so if all goes well, I'll be looking for 3 girls. So depending on looks and colors, I can get anywhere from 1 to 3 girls from you xD


----------



## Myates

Cool  Do be careful with that many fish in a 6g.. a couple would fit, but 5 you generally need a few more gallons. The bio load would be big, but you can do extra water changes.. what you have to be mindful of is the space itself. Sometimes fish can feel "trapped" in smaller tanks, and will become stressful, die and/or become aggressive due to it. I have the bookshelf aquarium right next to me, and with the size an adult female betta gets to be (mine are larger than adult males who are older than them).. you would only want to put 3 at the very most in that size of a tank. The females do get large and are more mobile than males.. they aren't territorial and don't set up territories such as a male.. they are nomads and wander around. So placing that many in a small confined space you are asking for trouble. 

Not trying to discourage, but if you want 5 girls you will need to get at least a 10g.. and I wouldn't place more than 5-6 girls in that even.

So space is going to be the issue with you.. the girls will be small when you get them, but they will grow big, and they will kill off a few girls so they don't feel cramped/trapped.

This was my bookshelf aquarium divided 3 ways (no longer divided x3).. as you can see, it's just enough room for them.. so having 5 girls loose together in the tight quarters (it's rather short front-back) is not a great idea.


----------



## Alcemistnv

ahhh well I mean, even with just 3 girls, I'd be okay with it 

I'm hoping to bring my 10 gallon back with me, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen, so he 6.6 gallon is all I can use, and it will be a step up from the 5 gal I have the 2 girls in right now. 

If I can get the 10 gallon, then I will do 5 
But I guess 3 might be the best for now ^^


----------



## Xaltd1

Those look like glass dividers! How did you do it?


----------



## Alcemistnv

Those look like they might be the mesh sheet dividers C:


----------



## Myates

Those were the ones you get at Petsmart.. hated them.. the tank is now divided 2x instead and using plastic crafting mesh as they don't try to curl up.


----------



## Alcemistnv

I use the mesh I got from AC Moore and got the binder covers from CVS.

All in all, it works out rather well and if you ouble it, the fish can barely see each other.


----------



## Xaltd1

Those "tank dividers" you get @ Petcosmart are HORRIBLE! They keep spoinging into a roll. They wouldn't keep 2 baby guppies apart, let alone determined bettas!
This board needs a product "thumbs up" & "thumbs down" thread. It would save new bettas owners $$$! I mean, how much worthless junk have we bought only to throw it away b/c the receipt expired/disappeared? (P.S. there is a receipt-stealing elf roaming the planet!!!)


----------



## Alcemistnv

Xaltd1 said:


> Those "tank dividers" you get @ Petcosmart are HORRIBLE! They keep spoinging into a roll. They wouldn't keep 2 baby guppies apart, let alone determined bettas!
> This board needs a product "thumbs up" & "thumbs down" thread. It would save new bettas owners $$$! I mean, how much worthless junk have we bought only to throw it away b/c the receipt expired/disappeared? (P.S. there is a receipt-stealing elf roaming the planet!!!)


BEST idea ever!!!!


----------



## Xaltd1

Do I have to be a senior-super moderator to start one? Do I have to get their permission?


----------



## Alcemistnv

to start a thread?
I'm sure you can be a regular user.


----------



## Myates

You can start it yourself, and if it goes smoothly, can request to have it stickied


----------



## SunshineSulie

Ah, man. I want to follow this and get updates. Man. I can not WAIT to see these beautiful babies! 

So excited, wish I wasn't going to Alaska for 5 months and wish I didn't live in a dorm and wish I had A LOT of money so I could have A LOT of bettas.


----------



## Xaltd1

SunshineSulie said:


> Ah, man. I want to follow this and get updates. Man. I can not WAIT to see these beautiful babies!
> 
> So excited, wish I wasn't going to Alaska for 5 months and wish I didn't live in a dorm and wish I had A LOT of money so I could have A LOT of bettas.


Take the trip while you can!!!!

When you get out of college & start on your career, it will be tough to find time to travel. Don't worry; once you have a job, you will have money for the bettas & will be able to come home to them; they are much more forgiving of a hectic lifestyle than a cat/dog/bird. True, they need maintenance, but you can use nights/weekends for that. ENJOY your freedom while you can. I PROMISE we'll have lots of bettas for you when you get settled! Take this time to decide what is your favorite color patterns, learn about betta care, & plan your ideal tank. And enjoy Alaska!!!!


----------



## SunshineSulie

I am glad I get the chance to go to Alaska, but sad I have to leave my betta!

Thanks for the kind words. I am just looking forward to adult life now that it is somewhat in my sights, you know???


----------



## Mahsfish

Same, I cannot wait to see what the fry turn out like.


----------



## bettacrazygirl86

I'm going to still follow this thread despite how badly I want one of those babies.  Must. Resist. Temptation.


----------



## dramaqueen

Can we see some pics?


----------



## marktrc

which were you culling? since they are so small, what are you looking for? swim bladder?

also what are you feeding them and what is your feed schedule like?


----------



## SunshineSulie

Would love to see some pictures!!


----------



## Myates

I know.. I've been slacking in the picture department! Will get some real soon, I promise!

Update though - heavy culling left me with about 60-75 total.. 

Then last weekend during water changes I accidentally had the filters shaken/knocked over which released a bunch of waste/old food in the water.. the Ancistrus plecos love the tube in the top of the sponge filter and would get stuck.. so trying to remove them is when the filters released the gunk.. I did a large water change at the time, roughly 80%. The next day I started seeing some in both tanks go vertical at the very top.. did a small water change and vacuum up the gunk that settled. The day after that I started seeing dead fry.. 2.. 3 in the morning. Which for this spawn is very rare. Had only ran across roughly 4-5 dead bodies in the first 2 months so having multiple dead bodies, even just 2-3, was a bad sign. 

Saw a couple scratching as well.. figured the gunk got into/onto them too much and was affecting them. Did another large water change.. but found more dead bodies throughout the day and the next morning. So I set up a 10g quickly with AQ salt (1tsp per gal) and put all the babies in there for treatment and then broke down the 29gs. They stayed in the 10g for roughly 5 days for treatment.

In the end I lost about 9 babies total..  That had been my die off for this spawn.. a stupid mistake.

Now they are back in the 29s.. I divided them up and put the largest, healthiest ones in the top 29 - about 30 of them. They are doing great and getting big.
The bottom 29 is housing my "special needs" ones.. ones that are runts or swim a little off, etc. Those are the ones that will be getting culled first as I go along. Most are healthy looking, just rather small and would be picked on by the larger ones in the other tank. 

Live plants, plecos, IAL, 80F and they are happy as can be.. in a week or so I'll go through the bottom tank and see how they are fairing. Cull any that are still "not quite right" from the scare.. let the little ones grow still as you never know, maybe some will have a growth spurt and I'll have a diamond in the rough. Picked up a 5g tank today for $2.50, so can use that for a couple of runts that I want to continue growing down the road. 

But yeah, I'll get some pictures taken this weekend and show you all  They are all very light bodied - taking after their mother. Some are showing signs of white dragon scaling, others are very shiny with blue/green cellophane. Some have clear/white fins, some red and some blue.. also a mix of blue/clear, and blue red butterfly patterns. Some seem to have blue at the base and red outer pattern.. so who knows! So far I don't see any purple like the mom, but right now they aren't too vivid so will be a bit before I know for sure.

I realized the mistakes I made with this spawn - as it was a very large spawn, things that work fine with smaller spawns didn't work so well with this one and it caused them to be a bit stunted. That much hormone in the water was too much.. so they are taking a bit longer to grow, but getting there.


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## dramaqueen

Ooh, the colors sound awesome! I don't know which colors I want! lol A dragon or one with a butterfly pattern? I guess you'll have to choose for me. lol


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## Myates

lol!

I will pick out some pretty/unique ones and send you picks for final approval


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## dramaqueen

Meredith, do you think you might show your fish someday?


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## Hadoken Kitty

So, are you going to spoil us with more pics???


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## Myates

Ugh.. I need to get those pictures!

And yes, not this particular spawn, but working towards showing.. my 2 males I have that are show fish - one killed his last mate, so need to find another girl for him, the other just is not interesting in breeding at this time.. sigh.. lol


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## Scottyhorse

Pictures??


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## SunshineSulie

Pictures!


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## Hail0788

Please do share.


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## crowntaillove3

Come on!! I took the time to read the ENTIRE thread. All of the posts; everything. I haven't seen any pictures of the fry with color! Please show us pictures! :wave: We are here and waiting! lol nice job by the way.


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## bryzy

Piiiiccctttuuuurrrrreeeeessss please.


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## Myates

Ok.. got some pictures taken while I was jarring some up... sorry for the delay, just been busy and kept forgetting to take some!

So.. you asked.. now you get spammed!

I use 32oz cups, kritter keepers of different sizes, 2liter coke bottles and soon to be beanie containers for jarring. None of them are sexed yet, some I am leaning towards one way, etc.. some have nips, etc, why they are being jarred. 

Again, this spawn is a bit smaller than normal for 2.5 months as there was over 550 fry. About 14 had died naturally and I culled down the rest. I now have a total of 30 from that spawn. It was for the best, sadly.. they have started flourishing since I culled. 

Surprisingly I have a lot of clear fins still.. may change as they age, but since both parents have red, blue and purple in their fins.. clear was not something I expected. Also unfortunately you can't see their cellophane coloration all too well.. I didn't have lighting set up, nor did I use a display case to take their pictures. I was trying to cause as little stress as possible since they were being removed from their 30 gallons for the first time. Some also have dragonscaling, which you may be able to see in some of the pictures. 

These aren't all of the 30, but a good number to get the idea. 
The brown water in the background is one of my fry tanks I have going.. it's holding the blue/green DTHMs.


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## Myates

Here are some of the calmer and smaller ones in one of the grow outs. I use Ancestrous plecos sp04 as the clean up crew - they only grow to 3-4 inches and very docile and safe to use with fry/juveniles. I get them from a well known breeder. I also have a ton more plants coming in I just purchased from a friend who breeds.. so the tank is a little bare here..

Sorry for bad quality of the pictures.. expensive camera, I just don't know how to use it! lol


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## Myates

Again, bad lighting and not display case.. but you get the idea


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## Myates

..


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## Myates

,,,


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## Myates

'''


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## MattsBettas

Very nice Myates! It's neat to watch spawns color up. Congrats!


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## Hail0788

Omg! Cuteness over load! XD


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## Myates

lol thanks  I do regret culling SO many of them as I don't know what I culled.. but it made these ones healthier overall, so it was a good thing. Just sad


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## crowntaillove3

hail0788 said:


> omg! Cuteness over load! Xd


+1,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 =)


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## Alcemistnv

SO CUTE!!! 

I keep seeing your text updates through FB, but I've been dying to see pictures! So adorable!!!


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## Myates

lol thanks  I posted pictures to FB, a few more than on here.. meant to put a link to them on BL, which I will now. 

The ones I jarred are still mad at me. I went in there a bit ago to feed the fry and I looked at them to see how they were doing and they were all just staring at me. Not moving a fin. Just staring at me. I think I'm going to sleep with my door locked tonight..


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## dramaqueen

Some look like they have red in their tails. They're so daen cute! I can't wait to get one or two!


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## Myates

dramaqueen said:


> Some look like they have red in their tails. They're so daen cute! I can't wait to get one or two!


Or three or four or five.. 

I have 3-4 with red in their fins in some way. Most likely will get some more red as they grow, who knows at this point. This spawn has surprised me in every way - I picked a good name for the log lol


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## crowntaillove3

Can't wait to watch them grow up even more!


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## dramaqueen

crowntaillove3 said:


> Can't wait to watch them grow up even more!


Me, either!


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## tari5thatsme2

Awwwwwww your babies are getting so big


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## Myates

Thanks  Have a few more pics I need to resize to post.. most of the jarred ones now make HUGE nests.. bigger than most of my adult males lol


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## tari5thatsme2

Wow thats great..... I want another one soooooo badly


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## Flapmon

Agh! So cute!


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## Mashiro

Very nice pics!


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## aquagreen

Just read this whole thing. *lol* Fantastic.


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## MattsBettas

Any new updates?


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## Myates

Yes! Sorry, been busy with new spawns, house work, new set ups, etc.. lol sorry! I just got a ton new beanie containers in, so will be doing pictures in the next few days so I can start finding them homes  

Here are a few sneak peaks


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## trilobite

Wow! they are looking real good
I especially love that male on the right in first pic. Any pics of their sisters :-D


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## Hail0788

Omg! They are gorgeous!


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## Mashiro

I agree with trilobite... I am practically drooling over that male in the top right corner.

They are all so gorgeous though!


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## Myates

lol thanks.. he would be going to shows when he got bigger, but one of his ventrals has a long U fork to it  So I am probably going to keep him around and breed him to a similar sister.. have some just like him, also have others that are a bit different.. was thinking of trying for a line of ones like him but with red patches and spots in the fins only. Unsure yet.. I experiment a lot, so we'll see what I do lol. 
But yeah, sadly he will probably be staying with me. 

Jitters to the left of him needs a home though  He is very spunky and healthy, problem is that one of his ventrals is really thin, straight line. Unsure why I had a few vent issues.. but otherwise he's a great fish  Those two flare non stop lol. 

I have a huge variety of colors and patterns... even zig zags (red outlines along the edges of the rays in the fins, reverse butterfly, red/white/blues, and lots of purples too).. will be taking pictures Monday so they can find new homes 

Sorta lucky I got about 90% males in this spawn, if not more.. I think maybe a total of 6-8 females. So all are pretty much jarred at this time. Which is good.. few more weeks and then these guys will be moving to the bigger tanks! -
3wk old DTs and 3wk old dragon mix (daddy of the spawn above).. hehe.. so these guys will need to find homes in the next month or so. I do have a wholeseller that sells to individual people and stores.. split profits, but he does the work.. so they all have a chance at finding homes if they aren't chosen online


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## MattsBettas

Looks great!


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## Darth

Nicely done!!


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## Myates

Thanks! I am so proud of these little ones.. I truly can't wait to show them all off lol


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## Hail0788

Do you plan on selling?


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## dramaqueen

I've got one coming as soon as I get settled. Yay!


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## Myates

Yes I am selling.. took pictures of them today, should be posted by sometime tomorrow (Tuesday) morning. Got most of them.. one female I'm debating on keeping as she is almost too nice lol  But yes, selling them for cheap as this was an "experimental" spawn and they are still rather young - some were just jarred so have shorter fins, and some still working on spreading out to 180. I believe I got a couple super Deltas in the mix. But yeah.. going cheap as they still need time to grow and spread more  Females are already full size, larger than males and bigger than their momma and are so ready to breed lol.. males each and every one have built multiple bubble nests too.

The one pictured in my Avatar is for sale, also each one posted in the "sneak peak" are for sale (except Stitch, female on left of the duo.. she's staying here to be a momma).. but changed my mind on the bright guy in avatar.. not going to go for those colors. Have some DTs growing out and some AOC cambodians rather work on first.


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## cosmicwitch

Oh wow, they look so pretty <3


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## Myates

Thanks! Needing new homes!

Classified thread


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