# Questions about fish colour patterns



## Tuigirl (Aug 3, 2014)

While I browsed the internet to find out the exact name for my fish´s colouration :nerd:, I stumpled upon a few things I did not quite understand. 
What exactly is the difference between a marble and a grizzle? 
Is that at all related? Is that caused by the same gene? 
Can a fish be both?
Plus- a piebald fish- is a fish with a unpigmented head? Is that at al related to any of the above?

Because when I look at my own fish, somehow all three things (marble, grizzle and piebald) are happening at once...
or did I completely misunderstand things?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Marble has two meanings. First is that of the gene. It causes the fish to turn different colors, sometimes over the period of a few hours and sometimes a few months. But it is typically a drastic change like red going to black or white going to blue (most common). We call those that change, a Marble. The second is the "Marble" coloration which is usually a splotchy kind of color like the Koi's, that's a sub type of the marble. Those are the "Fancy Dragons" you'll see on aquabid and typically they will "marble" out as we call it and change their colors. Red based fish (red koi) will always marble out to red and then typically black, fairly quickly. Yellow based koi tend to keep their patterns a little longer before turning their body yellow but keeping the black, white, and blue markings over top.

Grizzle is not under the marble pattern or gene. Grizzle actually comes from the Pastel genes. They are typically stable fish and will have a salt and pepper look to them. Unlike the Marble who is splotchy and has bigger patches of color, the grizzle has little patches of color.

Photos for difference:

Grizzle:









Female Grizzle:









You'll note that most grizzles end up being blue/white/flesh tone based but they will usually not "marble out" and turn all blue. There are exceptions of course. Any fish can carry the marble gene regardless of their first color combination.

And this is a marble, not denoted by the red splotch but by the bigger splotches of blue and white. He could also be called a Koi due to the pattern but he'll marble out too quickly for that to stick.









You're correct on Piebald, it should be a flesh toned head. Monster is another similar coloration but with white on the head instead of flesh toned. People often misuse them and say that flesh toned is white but it most definitely is not.

Here are pictures to help out. This is a Piebald Betta. He does have a splotch of red up there but he's still a Piebald. Piebald actually does come under the marble gene (as does Butterfly, Koi, and Fancy). But for the most part, Piebald's tend to be stable which means they won't marble out typically. Again, there are always exceptions.









And here is a Monster. Monster will always be a Full Mask Dragonscale (thick scales that cover the entire body, including the head).
And unlike Piebald, this is unstable and so he will eventually turn all blue with black as the base color









Your Archie would actually be a Multicolor because he does not fit in any specific category. Typically if they fit into one category, they won't fit into another unless it's a subtype of that category (Black Devil and a blue/red/black Triband fish are essentially the same things). He has Black Scale Edging which is not a trait in the Grizzle. He doesn't have enough scale coverage to be a Grizzle either, they typically have full irids where Archie only has partial (where the blue is on top of his body is the iridescence part, the bottom is not covered). He does have white scaling on his head but it doesn't cover the whole thing so he can't be a Monster, that white will eventually go blue though. And then his fins have cellophane (clear) and the blue you see are the iridescence on the membrane between the rays which makes it shimmer. So, he is a marble under that all but not in the sense of the coloration, but that he has the gene and will go blue down the road.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

One of my marbles, Random, ended up solid dark blue except for his head. Even the cello edges of his fins turned the same dark blue as his body. The skunk stripe divided his head right down the center with the white on both sides. So marbles don't have to be "splotched." Oh, and he lost the red on his ventrals.


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## Tuigirl (Aug 3, 2014)

Thank you very very much!
Wow, such a wealth of information!!!
You guys are amazing.

Lilnaugrim- OMG. What, my fish will turn blue??? Haha, this is so cool. Is genetics not amazing????? 

Russel- Random the fish is stunning! Wow.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Linda, Random still has splotches of white on him though, so that's the Marble coloration 

And yeah, Tui, most likely he'll go mostly blue with some black scale edging underneath. It won't be a solid blue but the white he has will likely turn mostly blue. His blue is Turquoise if you were wondering.


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## Tuigirl (Aug 3, 2014)

Thank you very much for this information!
Awesome, I am curious how he will turn out. Yay!
Yeah, I thought he might be turquoise, because he is not dark enough for the other blues.


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## Dirk Botes (May 24, 2017)

What would he be?









Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Betta_addict36 (Jan 14, 2019)

Hello! I recently got a new fish,Blue, and was just wondering what color pattern he would be.Is it he a marble?unfortunately, he died soon after i bought him (😭) but I was still just curious. If he is a marble, does that mean he would have become completely blue eventually(He wass actually blue wit a hint of black despite the pictures appearing black)?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Thread closed per

*12. Do not resurrect old threads.*
Do not post to a thread that has not received a reply in a year or more unless you are the original poster and wish to update. If you are not the original poster you must create a new thread but you may hyperlink the archived thread to continue an old discussion. Resurrected old threads will be closed. Also, please use "bumps" sparingly and do not bump your own thread unless a significant amount of time has passed without any response.

Post moved to own thread.


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