# Breeding Questions



## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Hello! Way back when I made a thread about how I'll be breeding sometime around September. Well, I lost my spark for bettas around then but somehow my fire has started back up. So I went back to my old threat and read through it's many pages and remembered what I was originally going to breed.

I restudied my research and everything seemed to come back to me about what I knew about breeding, although I may need a little bit of a refresher.

My shopping list is:
Mason Jars, for separating males.
Airline Tubing for cleaning
2 Plastic Bottles for growing BBS
BBS Eggs
Heater
Indian Almond Leaf (although I think I still have some leftover)

I have:
2 Fish tanks, growout and raising in
Tanks for the parents
Bubbler for BBS

I may be forgetting something.

So basically what I'm trying to get is butterfly marbles. Indjo told me to breed a butterfly and a marble together (well to put it simply) to get that, what do you guys think about this pair?
http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424689795.jpg
http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424687410.jpg


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Filter? Method for heating jars?


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks I'll think about that, maybe I'll just make sure the thermostat is warmer so the house is warmer. I might be able to pull a sponge filter from my other tank or get one on amazon.

Here is my pair btw, I couldn't get the other male:
http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424833207.jpg
http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424687410.jpg


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I can't be much help on spawning prep - but if you get any fry looking like that second boy *PLEASE* track me down so I can negotiate something with you to get a fish.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Woweee! Something similar to my spawn!  We may just have to compare the fry once they've grown older!


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

if you want to keep the jars warm, you could use a heating pad


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Bailmint said:


> Thanks I'll think about that, maybe I'll just make sure the thermostat is warmer so the house is warmer. I might be able to pull a sponge filter from my other tank or get one on amazon.
> 
> Here is my pair btw, I couldn't get the other male:
> http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424833207.jpg
> http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424687410.jpg


You'll want to keep the thermostat in the house set to about 80 degrees .. a room heater might be just the thing, though, if you want to avoid using heat tape or floating jars.

Do you have any cultures other than baby brine shrimp?


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

No but I'm probably going to be getting some microworms as well, I'm not as educated on food amount and variety, just how to make it.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks guys  I'm hoping I get some gorgeous fish


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The microworms are pretty good. I've had better success with walter worms and I have no idea why. You may wish to consider using vinegar eels if you can - they take a while to get started, but don't _stink _like microworms do. But that's a personal preference thing. The micro/walterworm cultures take up less room and grow faster.

For powder food I use decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, and golden pearls (100-200 micron)

Here's my current feeding schedule:
Weeks 0-2 : Vinegar Eels / Walter Worms
Weeks 1-5: Baby Brine Shrimp / Powder Food (powder food alternation starting at 2 weeks)
Weeks 5+: Powder Food / Frozen Beef Heart Mix / Frozen Seafood Mix / Grindal Worms

No eels/micro/walter worms past 2 weeks. Learned that one the hard way. All my later spawns have ventrals.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bailmint said:


> So basically what I'm trying to get is butterfly marbles. Indjo told me to breed a butterfly and a marble together (well to put it simply) to get that, what do you guys think about this pair?
> http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424689795.jpg
> http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1424687410.jpg


Hi Bailmint, welcome back!!!
Tbh, I don't remember what I said back then. But I remember you :lol:

Have you bought that male? If not - DON'T
Look at his body, the scales are off (mid part, below the dorsal). Plus he has small folding caudal with excessive rays - combined, indicating carrier of x factor in roses. He may be good as a pet but, tooooo risky to breed. But that's just my two cents. It all depends on you.

The female is good enough - fairly balanced body and fins.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks!
And, too late I already did :c hopefully we don't get any x factors, atleast it's not RTxRT. That wouldn't go over too well...

I'll just cross my fingers for a healthy spawn o-o.


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## Nimble (Aug 31, 2014)

Why even risk it? If a fish is a carrier for a detrimental congenital deformity like X-factor, it is your duty as a serious member of this hobby to NOT breed it. End of discussion.


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## Abhinand (Jan 10, 2015)

Subbing the thread haha.. Cant wait to see ur fry and spawn log..


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## BettaBoy51 (Nov 13, 2013)

What Is X Factor If You Dont Mind Me Asking? Is It Like Rosetail Or Something? Sorry Never Heard Of It.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

X-factor (which I believe) is another word for culls. Fish who are deformed in any way shape or form. I'm not sure, but I've heard of the term being used and that's what I assumed it meant. We'll get further information once someone replies.


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I thought X-Factor was something specific to rosetails and feathertails - but I'm not sure what. I've heard the term before though.

I'd like to know as well.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

x-factor is specific to rose and feathertails. It is a VERY specific set of deformities associated with that type of excessive branching. It is not guaranteed by crossing rosetails, but it is more likely. There are clean lines...there are "dirty" lines...an x-factor fish is not a pretty sight.

My eyes are not good enough to spot the factors that Indjo has indicated, although I do not doubt him. But, since the male has been bought already, I would cross to a female with lesser branching and see what comes of it. If the money's been spent, the money has been spent, after all, and if the male's offspring are no good, he can be kept as a pet and the female used for a different male. It happens.

Maybe I've gotten a bit callous, but I do not see a single thing wrong with an experimental spawn. Sometimes you simply don't know.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Well, I was totally off, erase what I just said haha!

Well, it's good to always learn something new!!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

To me the x-factor means genes that causes deformities, whether in rose or other types. It's just that in roses it's more severe and less tolerable than in other types. Small caudal, ragged fins, irregular scales, awkward body shape, are amongst the few results of the x factor. 

Once it is in, these defected genes are hard to clean out - but possible if you are willing to work with it. There are many breeders that produces "clean" roses. Nevertheless you'd have to know who they are and their reputation. 

By breeding excessive rays to mild rays often helps reduce x-factor from appearing. But there is no guarantee (unless you know the breeder). Personally I prefer to stay clear of roses unless I breed them myself.

Here is an article on rose tail:
AAB-Rosetails


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

So I was kinda close ?

Anyways. I've learned what x-factor means now


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Fishies should be coming in in about a week or so.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Awesome! Give us some update photos once they've arrived!


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Okay c:, I hope they make it alive-just in case I added an extra heat pack because of the freezing weather in Virginia.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Gosh, how cold is it there? Must be freezing eh?


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Well usually in the 30s but today was about 11


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Brrr. I live in Northern California and it's either really hot or really cold...

I did use to live in SoCal. Weather was want as always... I never really understood what "cold" meant until I moved more north haha!


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Oh x3 Must suck because it'll be hard to predict the weather for when Bettas come in around there.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

Bailmint said:


> Okay c:, I hope they make it alive-just in case I added an extra heat pack because of the freezing weather in Virginia.


Be careful. Heatpacks lose efficiency at certain temperatures. I got a DOA shipment not too long ago because the heatpack didn't heat when it got cold. It was warmer than 11 degrees at the time, too.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Do you suggest I add one more?


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

It's more a problem that the heat packs fail when the temperature gets so cold. If it is very cold out, it might be better off to temporarily hold shipping until very cold temperatures pass.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Yes but it's going to be in the mid 30s and 40s when the fish get here. Do you think I should still add another one for that or just leave it at two?


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

It's not just arrival at your doorstep that you have to worry about. In transit - your guy will probably be in an unheated truck owned by the postal service. You want to be aware of the overnight lows as well.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

The thing is, their next shipment after this one will be when I move and I already paid who they're shipping them to, so I can't hold it till' the next shipment. I went ahead and bought another heat pack to put in the box though.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

I hope to be a breeder one day, but I'm going to start off small with this; not breeding for finnage or fighting, simply just fun and experience .


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

It's definitely worth it! Getting the jiffy of breeding is always a fun experience!


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks! Hey guys, I dunno if you guys wanna see but this is the male's sisters:


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Working with and breeding/spawning this species can be so much fun and rewarding.

I have been working with this species for a very long time and found that I learn something new with nearly every spawning season.

I have used many different methods and have found using a more natural method to spawn and rear fry of this species to work the best for me. 
By using a full to the top with water, dirt based heavy planted 5-10gal unfiltered tank, often leaving the male and female together long term-only removing fry as they grow-I get healthy, fast growing offspring from easy no hassle breeders that spawn weekly without issue. 

That said, I don't recommend this method for new hobbyist-IMO the standard method is best to use in the beginning-then experiment using other methods, especially when you have offspring you spawned yourself to use for breeding

Lots of fun and rewarding, watching something grow and develop that you had a hand in creating...albeit from afar...I still get a kick out of watching a pair embrace, drop and pick up eggs, tend the nest- to conditioning the fry to a feeding tap so I can get a good look at the tiny fry attack the live food, give it a shake and gulp it down, then watch them grow to adults and reproduce starting all over again...It never gets old...

Breeding can be either a lot of stressful hard work or a lot of fun-you can spend a ton of money or very little. So many different ways to reach the same goal-its finding what works best for you.

Don't know if this was mentioned or not regarding keeping the juvies warm once cupped. What I have used in the past- use glass canning jars placed in a shallow tub of water that has a heater to heat that water to keep the jars at temp for the juvies.

Good luck with your breeding project-its refreshing to see hobbyist that want to breed for the enjoyment and learning experience-Thats what its all about IMO...Fun and rewarding learning experience.....


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Thank you so much for that! It gave me another little shove of encouragement. Thanks for taking the time to type that also, I really can't wait to breed, I find the whole breeding process interesting and it looks really fun. It's nice to hear someone who supports hobbyist breeding rather than people yelling at me for not getting perfectly finned parents. Thank you very much


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Hey so Linda decided that it would be best to just go with two heat packs as it looks like the weather for the rest of the week is in the 30s-60s, also I agreed with it too. I don't know I just thought I should post x3.

I'll start a spawn log when they get here!


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## BettaBoy51 (Nov 13, 2013)

you dont start a spawn log until they have actually spawned.i did that once and the fish woundnt spawn so id wait till there conditioned and theres baby fry.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Aw okay, well I've done a lot of threads but never a spawn log obviously x3 thanks for telling me.


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