# Can you keep fish in an uncycled tank?



## dukie1346

My parents won't let me cycle my 10g tank. Is it still okay to use? I have no other tanks or bowls to use.


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## Nataku

Indeed you can keep a fish in an un-cycled tank. Tanks do not have to be cycled, cycling simply helps stabilize them and reduce your workload a bit on water changes. 
None of my tanks are cycled, and my bettas are all quite happy and healthy with the arrangement. You simply have to remember to keep up on your water changes, that's all. Water changes are your friend. A non-cycled tank will increase ammonia levels faster than a cycled tank would, and as we all know, ammonia is bad for fishies. 

On my smaller tanks (like my quarantine (2 gal) and Skark, my rescue-betta's tank (3.5 gal)) I do 50% water changes twice a week. On my 10 gallons I do somewhere closer to 40% twice a week (larger tanks with less bioload per gallon overall means less concentrated ammonia amounts). I also like to break down my tanks about once a month and put the resident betta in a cup whilst I go take out the substrate and fake plants, and scrub both them and tank down to remove any residue that may have gotten under the substrate and not already been cleared out in water changes, and to remove and algae build-up on the tank itself. However, I don't think it's really necessary that you do a full scrub on your tanks every month like I do, that's just a personal preference for keeping everything sparkling and crystal clear. Besides, it gives me a great opportunity to rearrange the tanks and their decorations, and I find variety helps keep many a better happy and healthy.


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## dramaqueen

My tank and 1 gallon containers aren't cycled either. My routine for my 4 gallon is similar to Nataku's. I do 50% changes once a week and a full change once a month and like Nataku, I wash out the tank, clean plants and the glass gems. Then I put clean water in and he's good to go. I clean out the 1 gallons once every week to 10 days. I know I need to do it more often but time kind of gets away from me sometimes. lol


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## Twistersmom

Some fish are better at making it trough the cycle then others. I would read up on fish cycles.
Having a water test kit is very important, so you wlll know your ammonia and nitrite levels and how much water you should change out.
I do not recommend doing a complete strip down cleaning in a 10gal tank. That size tank is fairly easy to cycle. Cleaning it completely will kill your cycle. A cycled tank is a lot easyer to maintain and easier on your fish.
Good luck with the new tank!


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## veganchick

If you leave in the filter, your tank will go through the cycling process anyway. If you take it out, it won't!


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## shroomer

nataku i would not recommend taking out ur gravel/ substrate or w.e. cycleing basically creates good bacteria that will eat ammonia and nitrates and nitrites, so u have to clean and do water changes less frequently, if u are cleanign the gravel/substrate u are killing this cycle, these good bacteria live in the gravel/substrate, getting a gravel vaccum and vaccuming ur gravel will keep the majoraty of this bacteria there but get rid of the little nasties u dont want. i found a very helpful sight that discribes fishless cycling and cycling with a fish very well, here are the links.

fishless cycling:
http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishlesscycling.html
fish cycling:
http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/misc/fishcycling.html


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## Nataku

Not everyone wants a cycled tank. I much prefer being able to tear down my tanks any time I want so that I may also rearrange them, and worrying about being able to keep a cycle going only interferes with that. Also, having worked meticulously for years in the past maintaining salt water tanks and all their intrinsic quirks, I much prefer the ease and simplicity of just keeping an uncycled betta tank. No pH drips, no under-substrate filters, no air bubblers, no flow paths to need to worry about. And no accursed polychaete worms to be hiding under every rock waiting for a chance to chew on fingers.... although that's neither here nor there. 

My water changes and cleaning regimen are more than sufficient to keep up with any ammonia buildup in the tanks, so I have no need for cultivating bacteria to 'help' me do my job. I'm well aware of what the cycle is and how it works. I don't want it, so I don't give it the chance to occur. =]


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## 1077

I would agree that uncycled tanks can sustain fish if water changes are performed to keep levels of ammonia in check. The problem lies with those who do so and have no one to care for fish in the event of vacation ,and or medical emergency. I also believe in cleaning substrate(vaccuming) but cannot see the benefit of removing substrate for cleaning .


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## Tyyrlym

If a tank can be cycled there's absolutely no good reason not to. Some small unfiltered tanks can't be cycled. They're also typically unfit for fish anyways so its not a big deal. A ten gallon tank with a filter won't have any problem cycling at all.

I'm curious, why won't your parents let you cycle the tank? Do they insist on having fish in it immediately?

Do you have a filter? A ten gallon tank should have one. If so you can cycle the tank. It's going to require a lot of work on your part however. The first thing you need to do is choose the fish you're going to cycle with. What were you hoping to stock the tank with? You might be able to cycle with some of the fish you already plan to keep. You generally want to fish-in-cycle with a hardy fish if at all possible. You can cycle with more delicate fish but it makes the task even more tedious.

Once you have a cycling fish or fishes choosen the procedure is fairly simple. Start up the tank as you would normally. Substrate in, decorations in, install heater, install thermometer, fill with dechlorinated water, install the filter, fire everything up and let it run for a day or two to ensure everything is working, the temp is correct and stable, and you've got no leaks. Now add your fish. At this point you'll need to get into a daily routine of testing the water for the presence of ammonia and nitrites. Any time you see a reading higher than 0.25 ppm you do a water change, 30 to 50%, in order to get the levels down. You'll need to check your water daily. On a ten gallon tank you'll probably be doing a water change every day. You might even have to do two a day or one large one, though not exceeding 50%, in order to keep the levels under control. Keep it up until the tank cycles. Doing this will minimize the stress on the fish as much as possible.


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## Twistersmom

Tyyrlym,+1!


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## dramaqueen

I don't cycle mine either. I just don't want to go through all the testing and constant water changes. Every summer for a whole week, I have to test the water in my pool 3 times a day and it's a pain in the butt. It involves a test kit and water samples and writing everything down. Its a big pain but required by the health department.


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## 1077

Allowing a tank to mature ,or cycle, with fish if done properly,,requires no constant testing or frequent water changes. Problem lies with those who start with too many fish, too large of fish, inappropriate fish, and overfeeding of fish.


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## dramaqueen

I would only have one betta so there wouldn't be any danger of overstocking. And I don't overfeed.You DO have to do a lot of water changes in the beginning, don't you?


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## 1077

One betta in a ten gal tank that was filtered ,,and heated ,and water was treated with dechlorinator such as PRIME, would not in my view need frequent water changes assuming,(always a bad thing) that this fish was not being overfed. The biological load on ten gal would be small.Through testing every couple to three days, again,,assuming the fish isn't overfed, water changes may only be needed once or twice a week. Were it my fish,,(and it ain't)I would feed the fish once every two days maybe even three. Sounds cruel to some, but anymore than that and As some have stated ,,Water changes would be more frequent .Only tests can dictate the frequency.


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## dramaqueen

Do you mean feed them that small amount while its cycling or all the time?


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## 1077

Fish produce ammonia through respiration(breathing) and excretement (poop) By feeding sparingly during the maturing or (cycling ) you decrease ammonia levels becoming dangerous to lethal.


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## Tyyrlym

Yes, in the begining of a cycle you have to test the water regularly to monitor the nitrogeneous substance levels in the tank. A full test of ammonia, nitirite, and nitrate takes about eight minutes. And really until you see the nitrites start to dip you don't need to do a nitrate test so it takes only about five minutes. If you see levels higher than 0.25ppm you do a water change. When I cycled my first fish tank I had to do a water change about every three days. I tested daily though just to be sure.

The good news is that once your tank is cycled you only test the water once a week when you do a partial change. In the long run you'll do fewer water changes when you cycle your tank. You'll also have healthier, more active, and longer lived fish.


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## dramaqueen

Thanks Tyyrlym and 1077 for the info.


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## dukie1346

I already have a betta in the tank. They don't want to pay for the kits and ammonia, etc. They think it's too much money. If I don't cycle the tank, how often do I need to change the 10g water and how much?


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## dramaqueen

If you can get a turkey baster, just for cleaning debris out of the tank and not used for food, you could probably do partial changes once a week and a full change once a month. What I'm doing with my 4 gallon is about every week to 10 days, I take out half the water and replace it with clean, dechlorinated water, the same amount that you take out. Then once a month I dump out all the water and rinse all the rocks and his plant with hot water. You never want to use soap or any kind of cleaning solution because that will kill your betta. Then I fill it up all the way with clean water. In between full changes, I use the turkey baster I got specificly for this purpose, to clean debris off the bottom of the aquarium.


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## dramaqueen

I understand your parents not wanting to spend the money on a test kit. They can be expensive. I've held of buying one because of the same reason. By the time you buy all the paraphernalia needed for a tank, it really adds up.


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## Twistersmom

If I did not have a test kit, I would do 50% water changes every three days. (if its only the one betta) Fish stores will test for free, so if you know you are going to be passing a fish store, I would run in to have the water tested as often as possible. 
Even if you do not test your water, your tank will cycle, as long as you do not over clean. A 10 gal tank will cycle in one or two months if you do not disturb the bacteria by over cleaning. A cycled tank only needs a 25% water change once a week.


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## dramaqueen

Can a tank cycle without a filter?


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## Twistersmom

I was thinking he had a filter?
Good question, a filter definitely helps. If you are on a budget, you can make a diy sponge filter and run it off a small air pump, would be cheap to do.


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## dukie1346

He does have a filter.........


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## dukie1346

So if I do a partial change about every 3-4 days with a normal filter, it will cycle by itself? Plus I am trying to get a tester for the ph level to buy soon


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## dukie1346

How much is a ph level test thing? Can you use the same tester more than once?


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## Twistersmom

Yes, if there is a source of ammonia your tank will cycle, even if you do 25 or 50% water changes every 3 days.
If it where me, and I could only buy one test kit, I would buy an API liquid test kit for ammonia.
PH does not usually fluctuate much, so you can take some of your tank or tap water to the fish store with you and let them test your ph for free.
Remember that if you are cycling and you start getting zero readings for ammmonia, you more than likely still have high nitrites and should continue with the frequent water changes.


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## dramaqueen

The test kit measures ph, nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. One test kit does all that.


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## dukie1346

Ok, so If I got a test kit, how much could that cost? Also, To check the ratings often, do you have to keep buying new test kits?


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## Twistersmom

You can find the complete kit for 20-$25 dollars online, you can buy the test separately for around 6- $8.
It will last a very long time.


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## dramaqueen

So you don't need to keep buying the vials then?


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## dukie1346

ok then


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## Twistersmom

When you buy just an ammonia test or whatever, it comes with the vials. I brake them sometimes and I go through my nitrate test faster than the other ones, so sometimes buying the single test works out better for me then buying a complete kit.


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## dramaqueen

So you can buy the individual tests for nitrate, ammonia, ph, etc?


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## Twistersmom

You sure can! Petsmart and most fish stores will have them all. Its nice, if you already have a complete kit and are getting low on only 1 or 2 of your test.


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## dukie1346

ok, so what tests should I get individually?


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## Twistersmom

the complete kit is good to have, but I would say ammonia and nitrites are the most important.


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## dramaqueen

Thanks, Twistersmom. Dukie, I don't mean to hijack your thread. I thought the answers to my questions might be helpful to you, too.


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## dukie1346

No problem, it's helping me too. So if you don't buy the full kit, can you just buy the ammonia and nitrites alone and it would be good enough for the tank? Thanks a lot Twister for the help.


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## Twistersmom

Yes, When you get some extra money, a nitrate test would be nice as well, But ammonia and nitrites are the two deadly toxins that will be the most important to test for.
Those two test will get you by, Have the store test for the other things.


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## dramaqueen

Wouldn't buying the individual tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate be just as expensive as buying the whole API master test kit?


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## Twistersmom

yes, but if I did not have $25. to spend at one time, I would get whatever I had money to buy. Keeping fish can be expensive, seems like just when you think you have everything you need, something else comes up.


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## dramaqueen

I know it can be expensive. When I got my first betta, everything I got was under $20. But now, as I'm learning more on the proper way to keep them, its getting rather expensive. I'm in the same situation as Dukie. I have to watch the money being spent. Thats why I keep mine in 1 gallon acrylic containers with no heater and filter. You just have to buy what you can as you go along.


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## Twistersmom

Thats true. They are alot better off in a 1gal, then sitting in those cups at the store.


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## dramaqueen

Especially if their water is changed regularly.


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## Livelifelaughlove

and the waterchanges and such. They are really being cared for more, and as said, where would they be if they were still at the store?


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## dramaqueen

Dead.


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