# Betta fish and African Dwarf Frogs?



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Hello! I am new to this site and have 2 very loved Betta fish. 

They are in what I believe is a 3 gallon tank, however it is really large. The manufacturer might have mislabeled it, I would not be surprised if it was actually 5 gallons. 

Anyways, it has a heater, and a filter for up to ten gallons, and a Divider for my 2 Betta fish. Ryu and Yuuki. My little brother has 2 African Dwarf Frogs, and I would really like them two. I was thinking 1 for each side. Both my Betta fish are very sweet and docile, one won't even attack or flare, and the other one won't kill anything. He just shows who's who's boss. 

So what do you think?


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I think that in a 5 gal the two boys would be enough for the bioload, just to be on the safe side. Generally in a 5 gal we advice no more than 2 boys (Divided of course), or 1 male and a snail or some shrimp.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Yes. Plus I have a strong filter. It at least doubles the tank size. It also does not have a blocked flow. I was actually a little worried because of the current, but both boys do not have a problem with it. They do a good job swimming against it. The only time I see them struggle is when they are focused on jumping for their food, and it drags them back a little. 

Before I got double filtration for my 10 gallon with a growing Goldfish, it filtered that really good.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Anyone else?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, the bettas alone really are okay for the tank. If it were one male and one frog, I'd say go for it. But remember the frogs like company, so best not to divide them. There is no way for them to see each other without the male bettas getting through as well... They make be docile divided, but trust me territory is another thing


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Actually, they would be able to see and visit each other. Ever once in awhile I would let them have a little fish play date, and I believe they might be able to get to each others side. There are some really small slits that Yuuki can't get through, but I think they could. 


I also have frog food and Blood worms already bought for them.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Remember that if the frog can get through, the bettas may try. I have seen this happen with someone else... but his betta got caught... tore his fins the first time and second time got stuck and had to be removed (I dont know if he is still alive) so just be warned.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Aieeeeeee! Okay. I just shoved some plants there. Now there is now way my little troublemakers can get through. 


How do you think the Bioload would do? Unless it would all be good and everyone would survive, I would not try it. 


I already have a quarantine tank set up and everything.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Good with the extra tank. How big is it? I don't know... frogs are actually quite messy lol. or that is what I found with my one munching menace. Oh yeah!! give each frog hiding spots  they tend to eat the betta's fins. So if you wanted to try, signs of tattered fins is the frog more than likely. That's what my silly thing did to poor Spartan's fins lol.

If the quarantine tank is bigger... why not use that?  But yeah because the frogs are messy it is iffy...


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Tons of hiding spots. :3


It is a small tank, 1 gallon. I know that is too small for them to live in long term, but it has a sponge filter and when I go to get them I will try to get the youngest ones I can. 


So, would you do it?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't know... like I said one betta and one frog, definitely. I mean both have labrynths, but it's the waste I worry about. My 5 gallon I had, I cleaned twice weekly. Anymore than that could send the fish or frogs into shock, and probably kill off good bacteria. With double the critters, it's double the cleaning..especially because of the frogs. Try one frog first? Then if all goes well for 2 weeks or so, try the other frog. Watch for signs in the bettas and the frog. Also, if buying them I highly recommend quarantining them for 2 weeks anyways just in case they carry some parasite or disease you cannot see.

Should only put in one fish/frog in at a time anyways to avoid ammonia fluctuation


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay. I do a 10% every week. 

But again, that is because my filter. 

It is really strong, actually. Because this tank was supposed to be for Goldfish. (Stupid, Goldfish need huge tanks, I would never put mine in that thing)


And actually, I used to have 2 Goldfish in it. I never had an ammonia problem. And i'm sure you know how much waste even 1 Goldfish makes.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh trust me... I know goldies are messy little guys lol! And although the filter is strong, I would suggest maybe splitting the cleaning to twice a week. So... you said 10% per week? To keep ammonia down throughout the week, try gravel siphoning twice a week quickly. You have a siphon, right? If not I highly recommend to get one  They are so awesome... lol.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

OHHHHHHH. I just figured something out!

It is 5 gallons, but it only holds 3! I get it, like a 3 Gallon only holds 1.5 gallons of water, well then this 5 gallon must only hold 3, so really it is 5 gallons, but instead of saying that they just put how much it actually holds!


OHHHHHHHH. 

Okay, it is a 5 gallon I think.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I do.

It is just really hard, I have to take the divider out and one fish and all the decor to gravel Vac it. Ugh. Maybe I can get a little plastic tube that will fit and I won't have to take out the divider.

My Gravel Vac is for my 40 gallon with my Goldfish, so it is pretty big.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That applies depending on what else is there. If there is nothing, the tank is completely empty, then a 5 gallon holds 5 gallons. With rocks, a heater, a filter and plants water is displaced, therefore yes, there is less water. Which is why it is so iffy with adding frogs to your tank. For instance my 20 gallon community tank (now successfully killing the ich parasite  ) probably holds 18 gallons because of rocks and ornaments.

It isn't really "half" that it holds... always depends on what you have in there 

Haha wow... btw good job on a good sized tank for the goldies. And secondly, mine is the smallest I could find.. And I got it from walmart. about 12 dollars, and does okay for smaller spaces... Do you have gravel in the betta's tank, or larger rocks? even a simple tube works if you have rocks and not gravel. Otherwise gravel gets stuck in the tube ><


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I just found one. It is the excess tube from my Bubbler. It is really small.... might have to get a bigger one.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> That applies depending on what else is there. If there is nothing, the tank is completely empty, then a 5 gallon holds 5 gallons. With rocks, a heater, a filter and plants water is displaced, therefore yes, there is less water. Which is why it is so iffy with adding frogs to your tank. For instance my 20 gallon community tank (now successfully killing the ich parasite  ) probably holds 18 gallons because of rocks and ornaments.
> 
> It isn't really "half" that it holds... always depends on what you have in there
> 
> Haha wow... btw good job on a good sized tank for the goldies. And secondly, mine is the smallest I could find.. And I got it from walmart. about 12 dollars, and does okay for smaller spaces... Do you have gravel in the betta's tank, or larger rocks? even a simple tube works if you have rocks and not gravel. Otherwise gravel gets stuck in the tube ><



It comes with rocks and a plant and a huge filter, so yeah, I think that is the case. It actually came with way too many rocks, if I put all of them in there, it would be like 2 inches thick. 


I have gravel. And a very small amount. I like to keep it shallow so the filter gets most of it. 

Thanks, when I go to college I will be getting a 75 gallon. A 40 gallon is all my parents will allow. It is a huge tank.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Haha yeah it is  And the bubbler tube will work temporarily. And yeah I got a pre-used tank (from like the 90's...) that has 2 inches of purple rocks!!! I have to churn them so I can get all the gunk lol. Okay, well when you do water changes just take a spoon and churn the gravel so you can get lots of the gunk out lol.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I will take some pictures if you like. Of the tank.

Actually i'll just make a video.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay. I will do that. I do that sometimes too, then the filter can help me out.

But my Goldfish tried to eat the debris, so does Yuuki. Silly fish.

Sorry for double posting! I didn't know.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Haha I know. My new betta females, Marge and Tina (heheh) do that then spit it out. They are also finally turning color!!! Tina's fins are going a purplish-blue. Marge doesn't know what she wants yet lol. Her stripes fade then reappear. She goes darker, then lighter, then normal. Weird fishies indeed 

Also I would love seeing your tank


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up. They sound really pretty! It is really funny when fish eat something, then they realize it isn't food. My Goldfish does that with poop all the time! 


Okay, i'll post it in a few. After I make it. 

Purpl-ish blue? that sounds beautiful, do you have any pictures? I have always wanted a purple Betta.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't have any pics that will show her colors. And I know I always wanted a purpe betta... Perhaps these sisters will both be that!! Or one blue, and one purple. Both seem to be growing extremely fast (odd....) in my tank, so hopefully they get their colors in soon 

first two is when I first got them. 

other ones are recent  Cant see their colors.... But yeah lol

The one with the lepard spots on her dorsal fin is Marge. Her littler, less fat sister is Tina. Hmm... okay on the computer you CAN see a little color. lol


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Beautiful! I like the last picture, what a cutie!

I made the video, i'll upload it now.

Oh, and I apologize. My parakeets were really being annoying and I am sick so I sound really bad.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

haha it's okay  I am trying to find a way to keep my fishies alive while getting rid of ich, without doing 100% water change... which will kill all my fish other than the bettas ><


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh yes. I really hope you get that taken care of. 

I am medicating Yuuki for his tail.

You'll see in the video that most of his tail is gone because he got across the divider.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

haha yeah betta's will do that. Which is why they recommend having plants on each side of the divider so they cannot see each other  Best be warned... sometimes bettas do not need medication for things like a torn tail. ONLY if they get fin rot, do you need to. My male, Spartan, the frog chewed off good aquare of his tail. But it grows back on it's own.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I use Melafix, which says it is for wounds. 

The video won't go. So here are some pictures instead.


Oh! Gosh. I accidentaly uploaded one of my Chinchillas. Oops.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Nice chincilla. Lol

And a red flag right now... Mellafix and Bettafix are th worst to use. Immeidately stop using - I strongly advice that. Both are deadly toxins to bettas. Although natural, those natural oils are not good for bettas and should never be used. I definitely repeat myself, stop using it. 

If anything happens, like a wound, it should heal itself. Epsom or aquarium salt for fresh water fish is best to use for cuts and raggy fins.

For most illnesses you can find tetra or top fin brand for medication, or use salt. Bettafix and Mellafix killed bettas I had in the past. I inquired the pet store owner, and his wife told me that those are the top killers in bettas. People go in saying "I used this...?" and so now they don't even recommend getting it.

My first betta I had, was 7 years old. Bettafix was given to him, in lower the amount than needed, and he died the next day. Second betta got a nasty cut. I added bettafix, and it killed him. After that all I ever use is the tetra or top fin brands, avoiding such things like mellafix and bettafix. Almond leaves are natural conditioners, and bettas are usually hardy enough to fight off a wound problem. Fin rot however, or a spread of fungus thanks to a wound or raggy fins will need salt, or medication that needs to be safely and thoroughly researched. Trust me


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh. Okay. I will stop. 


What about BettaMax? I have had it for a very long time, it is a little capsule and it turns the water yellow. 


Anyways, what do you think of the boys?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You boys are actually very pretty. I've never seen ones with that kind of coloring around here truthfully 

Also, if it turns the water yellow I wouldn't use it. You don't really need to use anything. Just keep the water changed, and this will keep fin rot and fungus away. My female got a scrape on her side, my male Spartan had his fins chewed.... both I let heal themselves, with help of having clean water


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay! I once used it on my 5" Oranda Goldfish, the yellow water did actually filter out, but I didn't help. Then he died of swim bladder.

Really? Cool. 

 I have special boys.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah stick with tap water conditioner and that should do  Almond leaves are good for bettas too. 

And yes you do


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Almond leaves, huh. Where would I get those? 

I use Fridge water with Water Conditioner. 

Oh, by the way, I have been meaning to ask, who is that beauty in your profile picture? I love him. Very pretty!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

The picture you are seeing right now is Crayola Colors. The one on my page is Spartan, my little guy who devastatingly has a tumor.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

A tumor? Awww I am so sorry.  Is it fatal or can he live with it?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It's not fatal... It's closer to his tail than any organs. He has had it since he was 6 months old, and he is 2.5 years old now with scales just starting to raise on the bubbled areas of the tumor. It CAN grow and cause swimming problems, or burst, but it's obviously slow growing luckily.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Yay. I hope he makes it to a ripe old age. 

Is it that dark looking spot?


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

:/ I am still really stressed about this. If I add the frog, then my Betta will only have half a gallon to himself, since apparently African Dwarfs need 1 Gallon each for their Bioload.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah it is. Thought it could have been his birth mark until it looked more "rough" than the rest of him, so I thought maybe it was a rough spot. But it's a tumor.

Well, that's true. Because frogs are messy... I don't know if you should try it, but if you have a back up to put ONE frog, try with one frog first. Keep an eye on them all!!


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## ollief9 (Mar 16, 2011)

...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Trust me Bettamiah, I have met someone who successfully had two bettas and a frog (males devided) in a 5-7 gallon. But... Maybe he had hardy little buggers? Anyways, I no longer have my frog because he does..er.... did munch on my betta's fins. He isn't exactly a nice little frog for a betta companion ;D


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

So you have a divided 5 gallon tank for two bettas. So each betta gets approximately 2.5 Gal? I personally would not put in any tank mates other than shrimp or snails.

I don't know what you've decided to do because I didn't read the entire thread (my other laptop has a small screen, too lazy to read through), but I strongly recommend not putting your ADFs (African Dwarf Frog) with your boys.

As Sena pointed out, ADFs are pretty territorial, as well as your bettas. This is just an accident waiting to happen, regardless of how "docile" they may appear. One of my females lived with a ghost shrimp for about 2 months before she decided to turn it into a snack, and I feed my bettas well.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

bahamut285 said:


> So you have a divided 5 gallon tank for two bettas. So each betta gets approximately 2.5 Gal? I personally would not put in any tank mates other than shrimp or snails.
> 
> I don't know what you've decided to do because I didn't read the entire thread (my other laptop has a small screen, too lazy to read through), but I strongly recommend not putting your ADFs (African Dwarf Frog) with your boys.
> 
> As Sena pointed out, ADFs are pretty territorial, as well as your bettas. This is just an accident waiting to happen, regardless of how "docile" they may appear. One of my females lived with a ghost shrimp for about 2 months before she decided to turn it into a snack, and I feed my bettas well.


Haha yeah... Some bettas are all "ooo a buddy!!!" and others are like "WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY TERRITORY?!!!" and the same as a ADF... And I had my betta and the frog in a 10 gallon -.-

It's really really iffy.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I am going to try to keep 1 with Yuuki at first. I know he will not attack. 100%. 

The frog, not so sure. 

Hopefully I do not have to return anyone. It makes me very, very sad to. 

If it didn't work, I would keep it in my 1 gallon with my Shrimp. Maybe. 


Hey, what do you guys think of this- I get 2 frogs (Not at the same time though, I have to see how stuff goes) and then keep one in the bowl for 2 days, then they switch, and so on? To minimize the Bio-load. 

Ugh. I am so stressed!

What would you do? I really, really want them. But each betta only has like 1.5 gallons because of all the decor and stuff.

I also have a really good filter, though. For up to 10 gallons.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well I would not stress the frogs by moving them back and forth back and forth so that would not be a good idea.

Although, the filter may be too strong for bettas - could tire them out. Is it adjustable? Adjustable is nice, trust me :lol: I would suggest maybe finding a used 10 gallon around your area. Post ads online and maybe on billboards


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't have room for a 10 gallon.

No, it is not adjustable. Yuuki has problems when he tried to jump, it kind of pulls him back in, but other wise they have never had problems. They are both good swimmers. And if they ever needed to get away from it, I have a Betta leaf away from the flow, Hiding decor, and plants.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Ok. well, do you have room for another 5? then you can have a betta and frog in each.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

It is commonly suggested that these frogs be kept in groups of two or more due to their social nature. Splitting them up and/or swapping them out can be stressful on their systems. I've also heard that ADFs are very shy...

A minimum of one gallon per frog is needed to keep these frogs, as they are very active and need the space to move. So considering your tank is split in half, it is more "tall" than it is wide, which is not recommended for ADFs. They have a labyrinth organ like Bettas do, and they are not very strong swimmers, so they may have difficulty reaching the surface if the tank space is more vertical. Not to mention your betta has to share the same small surface area...coupled with the shyness of the frog...

This just spells disaster for me. If you're "REALLY STRESSED OUT" over the fact that you're unsure whether you can keep the frogs or not, then I honestly wouldn't buy them and/or return them.

As Sena said, if you had an additional 5 gal or somehow find the room for a 10 gal, that would be much better for them.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

No.

My mom said 'NO MORE FISH TANKS!!!'




I am just unsure if the filter coukd handle the Bioload. I am not concerned about anything else, just that. 

The last think I want is high ammonia.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

They have a fairly low bioload. But their food, if left uneaten, will have a high "bioload"


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Yay! Then I have decided. I will get them. I always watch my fish eat, and if any food is left, I take it out. I will be feeding them with tweezers also. 

So, bioload problem solved. 

I am getting frogs. There is tons of places for him to perch to get air. I am also getting Bamboo to help control my Nitrates.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

As Bahamut so kindly suggested to you earlier, getting the frogs would be a very BAD idea. It may be all well in the beginning, but sooner or later you're going to have a problem. The ADF's don't "perch", they're bottom dwellers and swim up for air. 

I agree with Bahamut completely, but what you do is entirely your choice. 
I've said my peace.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

My tank is less than a foot tall, which is good for an Africab Dwarf Frog. And he could sit on a plant or something. Or even my Betta hammock.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well... go ahead and try then. Just our opinions, but YOUR choice.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I agree with your opinions. Until I can figure stuff out, no AFDs.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'd love to try ADF's but I don't think I could keep them in less than a 5 gallon.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh gosh. I thought this died. >.<

I think you could. They only need about a gallon. As long as you have a good filter, and keep up on the gravel vacuums, they would thrive. 

My brother has 2 in a 1.5, never does anything for the tank, and like, half the water is evaporated, but they are actually really healthy. 

I do all the maintenance for the tank, and I still check on it, but he needs to care for them on his own.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

The water should always be full however. Frogs, unlike fish, do not show as many symptoms.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I keep telling him to fill it. I have filled it before, but he won't let me in there to fill it myself. 

They are HIS frogs. HE should care for them, right?


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## missm83 (Aug 23, 2011)

ok this maybe a dumb question...but.... the frogs live under water like fish??:hmm::dunno::question:


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, ADFs are fully aquatic.  Not a dumb question at all.


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## missm83 (Aug 23, 2011)

hummm what do the look like???!! they sound cool...now i want one:wink2:


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

These were mine before they passed away from mysterious causes... I know the smaller one got redleg, but the female was just parished one morning... 

But anyway, they make great pets if you take care of them properly... A full grown female needs 3 gallons at least, and a full grown male needs 2.5. They are good tankmates for a calmer betta, since they are not very strong swimmers.

My word... that is a horrid picture... Here are better ones... 










^^ Casper, male 









^^ Jackie, female


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## missm83 (Aug 23, 2011)

I WANT ONE!!!!:greenyay:SO CUTE!


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

Lol! They are very cute, and so active. XD


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Cool pics. My mom even liked them. lol


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

Lol, thanks! XD 

I am thinking about getting some more once i have sent off all the rehomed bettas.... i miss having the little buggers around.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

hahaha ADF are funny lookin'. I got some darn good photos of mine!!

I guess mine likes to pretend to "sky dive".......


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

LOL! Awww... Mine used to do that all the time. XD Makes me want to run out to petco tomorrow... >.< I know i cant though! XD


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Haha xD yeah I had to rehome mine... He was a fry snatching fin munchers D:


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

Yeah, thats why i liked mine... They ate all the fry i didnt want when i had them in with guppies. But i never had any experience with them nipping fins, even with my longest finned bettas. o.o 

Actually, one of my bettas didnt start to fin nip until AFTER my ADFs passed away.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Gizmothefreaky said:


> Yeah, thats why i liked mine... They ate all the fry i didnt want when i had them in with guppies. But i never had any experience with them nipping fins, even with my longest finned bettas. o.o
> 
> Actually, one of my bettas didnt start to fin nip until AFTER my ADFs passed away.


Yeah my frog used to be Spartan's lil' buddy, then he took a good chunk of his fin  and the female bettas didn't like him so I didn't want to risk messing up Color's fins, so had to rehome him


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

are you sure it was the frog that ate his fin?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

At first I blamed the clam shell for a slightly raggy fin so I removed it. It continued to get shorter, so I removed EVERYTHING except the frog. Then look at him next day he had a square bit off his caudal/back fin. Spartan is 2.5 and does not nip his own fins (not as long as my other male's fins in other tanks), and there was nothing to tear on... The frog used the clam as the get away lol


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

>.< 

I tried convincing my brother to get a heater, then I told him they are like 15$ and he was like 'No! They don't need it. They are fine!'

So. Er....

His frogs never swim. Poor dears. I think they are cold.


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## Gizmothefreaky (Apr 10, 2011)

Ah, yeah, i bet they are. The poor dears....


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