# Are Dalmatians rare?



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

After looking through LittleBetta's thread, I decided that I would go on Aquabid and find some pretty Dalmatians to gawk at. But there were none. Not a single one.
Are Dalmatians that rare or difficult to breed? Are they undesirable? I think that they're beautiful. :3


----------



## Foxell (Mar 13, 2011)

I've always wondered this too. I've seen orange dalmatians on aquabid before but not often. I actually just got one not too long ago from a LPS. I didn't even realize he was a dalmatian until I got him home and his spots started developing! I saw another one today at petsmart too, but that's the only times I've ever seen the in stores. They're so beautiful, I wish there were more!


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I know right! Seriously, I didn't even know that these guys existed until about a week ago. And they're nowhere!


----------



## fleetfish (Jun 29, 2010)

They're the kind that are common in some places but rarer in others, I guess. I have an orange dal boy, Peaseblossom ... gotta admit he's one of my favourite bettas.


----------



## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

if i EVER lay my hands on a dalmatian, i shall spawn it right away o_o


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

they're common in some areas, not in others. i've seen people get them easily at walmart. i've only seen 4 total at my lps in the last 6 years. x: my first betta was an orange dal. they're pretty uncommon on aquabid, because not alot of breeders wanna mess with the whole orange genetics, and combining red and not-red on the same fish.... x-X


----------



## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

I have few orange dalmatiens half moon pairs. I think they are very nice, you can view them in my profile. I bought them from bettacolorourworld.com, they always have nice fishes. Take a look when you have time.


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

bettarainbow said:


> I have few orange dalmatiens half moon pairs. I think they are very nice, you can view them in my profile. I bought them from bettacolorourworld.com, they always have nice fishes. Take a look when you have time.


Oh my, you do have some nice Dalmatians there.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

bettarainbow said:


> I have few orange dalmatiens half moon pairs. I think they are very nice, you can view them in my profile. I bought them from bettacolorourworld.com, they always have nice fishes. Take a look when you have time.


*totally jealous* i wanna breed dals, both in Veiltail and Halfmoon. you're so lucky~!


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

lol, so if I decide to breed my guy, what do I need to look for in a female?


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I think that people pretty much try to mate them with a solid orange fish, which I know can be kinda hard to find. Even then, about 50% of the babies turn out Dalmatian


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

So Im pretty much looking for another girl like my Wildfire?


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Yea, actually, it looks like Wildfire would do very well, or another female her color. But you should definitely ask some other people on here lol don't take just my word for it.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

the female can't have any red in her at all. if she has red, the chances of the fry being visible dals is like.... nothing. they'll be dals, but you won't see the spots. getting an orange gal will increase your chances, since dal females outside of pairs on aquabid is like........ nothing. x:


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Wildfire passed away 3 days after I rescued her, she was an orange cambodian

Wildfire ------>


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Aw, so sad.  She was beautiful, and the perfect color too. Was she just too sick?


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

I know :/
Yeah, severe finrot, SBD, and I suspect she may have had some parasites


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh no, that's too bad.  She was so beautiful.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i've actually be researching Dalmatians, because i want to breed them. .3. that gal, if she was a true orange and not a faded red, may have been perfect! to get the red spots on the body, you have to had a betta with NO red in them at all. orange is perfect, but you gotta be careful about breeding orange with orange. the reason there's so many different shades in an orange dalmatian, is because of the fact that orange fades after a while.breeding orange with orange, will eventually give you soft peachy-pink. i haven't figured out what color you'd have to breed into the line, to produce crayon orange again...


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

freeflow246 said:


> Oh no, that's too bad.  She was so beautiful.


 
I know :-(
and she had a GREAT personality


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> i've actually be researching Dalmatians, because i want to breed them. .3. that gal, if she was a true orange and not a faded red, may have been perfect! to get the red spots on the body, you have to had a betta with NO red in them at all. orange is perfect, but you gotta be careful about breeding orange with orange. the reason there's so many different shades in an orange dalmatian, is because of the fact that orange fades after a while.breeding orange with orange, will eventually give you soft peachy-pink. i haven't figured out what color you'd have to breed into the line, to produce crayon orange again...


She was a walmart betta, so unknown background....
but my dal guy is the same
With the red,it seems people have bred dals to red and have gotten all reds, but when they bred back one of the females with the dal dad they got dals in the mix, so, Im probably goingto he to do some back breeding (which I plan to do anyway since I plan to introduce in some different fin types)


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

the red on the fins, though, will totally overshadow the red spots. .3. that's what i read on BettySplendens about her dal breeding. she got the best results, when she bred dal to orange. but, that's the fun about dals! they're total unknowns! i want to try crossing dal, to pure white. .3.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

XD
I want to try cellophane or dragon 

I have seen cellophane dals so Im guessing that would come from that.... but a dragon???


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Cellophane would probably turn out well. I dunno about a dragon, it might cover the spots. I've read that the dragon gene is dominant.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

O... I hadnt heard that dragon gene was dom. (thats cool )


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i saw a dragon dal once. .3. he was a beautiful orange dragon, with silvery-orange scales and orange fins with the blood red spots on the fins. the dragon gene just affects the scales, not the fins. :3


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh! Yes I'm sorry. I don't know why I thought that lol. XD
I need to start getting to bed on time.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

O... thank you Luimeril 

Where did you see him?

lol Freeflow, I know how that is, Ive been gettingthings all jumbled up lately


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

he was on Aquabid. they don't always have dals there, and when they do, it's just bettas with spots all over, not true dals. :/ but, sometimes, if you're lucky, you can find some. try searching for "dalmatian", "spot", and "dot". .3.


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've been browsing aquabid, and I couldn't find any dals. But one must appear someday!


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

they come and go. sometimes, i'll find tons, sometimes i'm lucky to find one. .3. depends on the breeders.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah :/
But my guy needs to gain some weight so I have a bit of time to search for a pretty gal while I put meat on his bones


----------



## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Betta dalmatien are not hard to find if you know where to look for them. I found 2 of them, one is black orange dalmatien and the other one is orange butterfly. Look like both of them are on hold and sold already.
Here are their links.

http://thumbs.webs.com/Members/viewThumb.jsp?siteId=72286491&fileID=249872056&size=full

http://thumbs.webs.com/Members/viewThumb.jsp?siteId=72286491&fileID=250428336&size=full


Ok, bed time for me, 99.


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks bettarainbow! I think the hardest part is finding a Dalmatian that hasn't been already snatched up.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

you'll have to hunt aquabid, if you want an HM or HMPK. otherwise, check pet stores, they often have veils. when i finally have the ability to breed bettas, that's where i'm gonna hunt. a pair of HMs on aquabid, and a male veil at the pet store.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I would recommend trying to spawn for a dal gene if you havent before, considering it's so fickle. You might get 3 dals for every 50-100 fry, if you've done everything right.

Dals arent really "rare" nor "undesirable", just uncommon. I got a deep orange dal from walmart.

I think that says something to their rarity.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

their rarity seem to come and go. about 6 months ago, the pet store i go to had about 6 of them. that was the first time in nearly 5 years that i'd seen them there, and i haven't seen them since. my walmart had only the pineapple dals, and that was 2 out of... maybe... 20 total bettas?

it's a hard thing to breed for, maybe, but doesn't mean you shouldn't try. x: i've been researching it for a while now, but it's not something everyone tries for, like butterfly or dragon, so there's no one who says "you gotta breed this to this, to get it" like with the more common types. x:


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Yea, it seems like everyone is focusing more on dragons and butterflies now; the Dalmatian isn't as 'rad' as it used to be. Doesn't make me like it any less though!


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

I just got back from petsmart.... NO females at all 
Still on th prowl for an orange female or a cellophane.... If I breed my new boy and my potential girls, I'll breed for dals, crossing back the most likely dal offspring with the father...


----------



## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

freeflow246 said:


> Yea, it seems like everyone is focusing more on dragons and butterflies now; the Dalmatian isn't as 'rad' as it used to be. Doesn't make me like it any less though!



I am breeding dalmatien, that is why i have so many males. Just in case your fox dont know, if you put a male dalm with a female dalm, you are not going to get dalm.
To get dalm. the male gene need to be 100% dalm + a full solid orange female then you will get dalm or a solid orange male + a female with gene 100% dalm = dalm. 
I tried already and has not that much success until i asked the breeder for helps. This is not my advices but breeder advices.
I disagree with few members from this forum, any color with dalm is rare to find and that is why when you find some, they are so expensive.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

the lady from BettySplendens played with Dals, but then she sold almost all her stock, because she moved to Sweden. she bred a male dal, with a red female, and got all cambodian reds. :/ no clue if the dal was there at all. 

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1757

that's her article. that's what i go by, because that' the ONLY article i can find on dal breeding.


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Huh, that's interesting. I'd love to give Dal breeding a try when I have the room/money/time.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Thatsone of the articles I origianally read, though I am curious if any of the offspring later threw dal spawns (plausiable I think)
If I go through with breeding my dal guy it WILL be to an orange female, I know there is a higher chance I will get oranges or assorted colors since both my dal and the fmale will prob. be from unknown backgrounds, though and oranges or dals will be bred back with either my origianal male or female.... fingers crossed!

*still no luck in even finding a local female... sigh*


----------



## Betta Slave (Dec 8, 2009)

Dalmations don't breed true; I've read somewhere that if you breed two dals, you'll get maybe one or two (if any) fry with that coloring. It's not something you can really breed for. That's why, I'm assuming, there are so little dals on AB. You can't really set up a line of dals since the coloring doesn't "stick".


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

"dalmatian” spotting pattern behaves as a fully dominate gene, being passed onto all appropriate offspring"


http://betta-fish-care.org/orange-dalmatian-betta-fish/


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

so, they're like the tail-less cats, of the betta world. breeding dal to dal won't really give dals, so you gotta out-cross to orange, like with the manx cats, you gotta outcross to another breed to get any manx babies. x: that's pretty neat...


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

From what I understand, that correct Luimeril!


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

that helps out alot, actually! i wondered why dal females were never seen, and this explains it, because you can't get dals out of a dal x dal pair!


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

That also explains why you don't see them that often. You wouldn't be able to breed Dals back to their siblings or parents, which breeders usually do to keep the color. So every time you try to make a new generation of Dals, there's a chance of you losing the Dal pattern. Interesting! I definitely want to give this a try!


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

freeflow246 said:


> That also explains why you don't see them that often. You wouldn't be able to breed Dals back to their siblings or parents, which breeders usually do to keep the color. So every time you try to make a new generation of Dals, there's a chance of you losing the Dal pattern. Interesting! I definitely want to give this a try!


You can, and many people do breed back dals to the parent (especially if they had no dal offspring)
as with another article I read about, they bred the dal father to a red female, ended up with all reds and a few oranges, I believe they bred back one of the orange females to the dad and had some dal offspring


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh I see. Dal breeding sounds like a challenge, and I think that it could be fun sometime in the future.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Agreed ^


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

ok. So I want a dal now!!  Thanks!


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Nice discussion - great info.

The dal you're discussing is orange with spotted fins - usually a darker shade of red. Orange is hard to maintain as it is and to get the spots (I think) you'd need certain marbling...... I once saw a (what I call) a true dalmation. It was a white dragon with black spots on most of the body (not the head) and fins. Though I haven't seen such orange dal, but I've seen orange dragon dals (usual spots on fins)

I have never worked with dal's and don't know exactly know how they work. But they are possible with dragons. Perhaps if you replace the red with a red dragon then inbreed to parent .... not really sure.

Please share when you breed them.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i think the orange dals, were the first dals. i've seen the white with black/blue spots, and think it's lovely in a dragon scale.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

My orange dal passed away this morning, my walmarts current breeder/provider apparently isnt very good as the last 6 bettas (4 of which have assed away) I got from there have been extremelly ill, and I got them the day of or after they came in through shipment, every betta from te last 3 shiments have been extremelly ill, SBD, finrot,or VERY underweight, I have a meeting with the store manager tomorrow and Im going to try to get the breeders contac info

I do still want to find a dal to try breeding though, keeping my eyes out for another


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Aw, I'm so sorry! Hopefully you'll find a nice Dal soon! I'm very glad that my Walmart doesn't sell bettas.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Thank you...
Me to, Im going to keep a look out, but Im going to stay away from my local walmart till they stop with this breeder (though I would prefer they did not sell fish at all)


----------



## DazzleKitty (Nov 9, 2010)

I actually got my orange dalmation at Wal-Mart. That's where I usually see them. I think I may have seen one or so at Petco or Petsmart, but my local Wal-Mart has actually had a few of them. I actually went in once looking for a dalmation one and the last male they had in stock was a veiltail dalmation. How lucky is that? He's pale orange with dark red spots on his fins. I'll try to get a pic of him if I can. To me, he's both pretty and ugly. I love the spots, but form some reason they remind me of chicken pox. Therefore, he is named Pox. 

I remember many months ago someone posted a picture of one of the MOST BEAUTIFUL bettas I've seen ever. He was a simple veiltail, but he was a light purple lavendar like color with gorgeous dark purple spots. That person got so lucky to find such a beauty! I know people don't like to breed veiltails but that one would be worth it IMO. I'd definitely take one of those babies if they looked like their daddy.


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

People don't like breeding VT?! I looooooove VT!!!


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Man, I must have bad luck. I have never seen a Dalmatian betta in real life, and I live close to three different pet stores.
While VTs may not have the most fancy tails, I've heard that they tend to be healthier, so I would have no problem breeding them.


----------



## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Laki said:


> People don't like breeding VT?! I looooooove VT!!!


That is not true ;-)

Even i have a bunch of hm, hmplakat and ct, i have 2 spawns dragon from vt genes. 1st pawn, i used a red gold male vt plus a female hm red dragon. 
2nd spawn, i used a blue male vt plus an orange dragon hm female.
I thought that was a good mix, let see in few months how the fry coloration will look like...?


----------



## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't think it's so much that people don't like breeding VT as there's such an abundance of them in pet stores that it can be difficult to find good homes for possibly 100+ VT babies


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

100+ o.o Is that how many can be born in one spawning??


----------



## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

it can actually be a few hundred, don't think that's super common, but possible


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

o.o I think one day when I have space and more head-smarts I'll try to spawn them! Obviously, with my luck I'd end up with a ka-jillion baby fishies and wanna keep them all!


----------



## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

The numbers go down after culling and deaths from weaker genes or illness, but yeah. always keep in mind"what if i get 100+ healthy fry? can i find homes for any healthy, but not show/breed quality fish?"

Because i cull any deformed/under sized/unwanted coloring and such fish, my spawns are relatively small. 25 or less fry.


On the topic of dals, i've never seen any at the shops here. They sound interesting to breed, but wouldn't fit into any of the lines i'm working on. I'm currently breedig towards a white dragon line. I have 6-7 partial dragon, pk geno, vail tails growing out right now out of a blue mother. I'm hoping one is female to breed back to the dad. The others I'll probably post online for adoption or sell to my local pet store(he takes great care of his fish and would love to have the only dragon vt's in town i'm sure.)


----------

