# Yue (white HM) x Kisa (orange VT)



## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Well, this is happening a little earlier then planned. Plan was to introduce them today by putting Kisa in a mesh breeder in the spawn tank until Saturday afternoon. I put her in, and she immediately dropped about five eggs, S-swam, and submissed... so I released her. Going to be watching them all night until bed time, and doing frequent checks tomorrow. Pics as things progress. Currently it's just tag.


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

Can't wait for the pics!


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

I probably already know the answer to this, but I will be interested to see what kind of tail types you end up with.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

This should be interesting. I've a halfmoon/veiltail mix on youtube.

They have a unique look.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

And we've progressed to hide and seek with fin nipping :roll:


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Ouch, hope it doesn't' get out of hand.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Well, her anal, dorsal, and caudal fins are pretty much shredded, but he doesn't chase her for long, and seems to be giving her rest periods, and there are no body nips visible so far.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Yikes...at least she's able to catch her breath.

Should be an interesting mix considering their colors and fins.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Yea. If he can convince her to let him embrace. If nothings happened tomorrow evening, I'm going to put her back in the breeder for an hour-ish for a slight recoup and snack.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Funny, my delta male tried to hard to impress my veiltail female but she gave him the cold shoulder. Now they're getting along and she really loves him.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

WE'VE GOT WRAPPING ATTEMPTS!!!!!!!!  :redyay: :blueyay: :greenyay: :thumbsup:


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

and... WE GOT EGGS. At least, Kisa's dropping a few after each wrap now. We'll see if Yue is fertilizing them or not later.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow...please post how it turns out. Waiting seems like the hard part.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

It does. I'm pretty sure that they ate all the eggs so far, but maybe they missed a coupe that will hatch...maybe. If not, I'll recondition Yue for a couple of weeks and try him with a different female (Kisa's going to need a longer recovery period, I think). Might change my mind depending on how she looks after reconditioning is over.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

So sorry about that, you can always try again.


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## BlueLacee (Dec 8, 2013)

So... PICTURES!!!!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Officially calling first spawn a fail. No bubbles, no eggs, and no nest guarding this morning. So, rest and extra stress guard for Kisa, food for Yue. Try again in two weeks. Yue with either Kisa if her fins are fully back or Hatori if I deem Kisa still unfit for another attempt. If Kisa, will post here; if Hatori, will start new thread.

Oh, and I'll upload the videos that I took to youtube sometime this week and post the links.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Well, you tried but there's always next time. Will keep an eye out for the youtube videos.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

Do you know who ate them? If it is the male and it happens a second time, I would not use him for any further breeding attempts.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

It was both, but yea. I know the 1 2 3, you're out tradition. He still young, and it was his first spawn, so it might have been that none of them were fertilized? Would be a shame, he's a white halfmoon.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

White halfmoon, I haven't seen too many white bettas. Hope it works out for you next time.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

I do too. Oh, here are Kisa's and Yue's photos. Forgot to post them at the start 

View attachment 370010
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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, they're amazing. Yue has a platinium look. Funny, my dragon delta has clear patches on his tail and anal fin. I'm assuming that there may have been a cellophane relative in his bloodline


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you Houndogg. I've been incredibly lucky at the local petco and petsmarts with finding gorgeous fish. Quick update, Kisa already has a lot of regrowth with her fins... I think she might be up for a retry next week


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

You're welcome. The Petco and Petsmart where I am tend to be hit and miss, I do come across some nice ones once in a while but the aquarium store where I got my delta, Cole have a whole section with bettas. Saw my first black orchid there, very unique.

Hope it works out for you next week.


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## Ashthemutt (Jan 13, 2014)

They are very cute. Hope everything goes alright


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*vid*

http://youtu.be/ceDBQRqq2Qo

Youtube link for tag and one of their embraces. Kisa will be going in for round 2 Sunday.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Huh, wow. I noticed a bit of a time lapse during the chase, how long did that last?


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

video was 8 minutes, last 2:30 was him dancing and her in the tunnel. Observed tag was about 4 or 5 minutes of tag with an extended rest period (1 hour+). 2nd part (embrace) was close to 2 days later.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow. But then again I've heard the first time around it takes bettas a while. When I put my pair together for the first time, Cole actually panicked if he got too close to Myra. 

Hope the next time works out for you.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Here's to hoping. If not, Hatori is conditioned as well, as is my other mature male Inuyasha.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Do you have photos of them?

Noticed your bettas seem to have Asian/Anime names. That's interesting.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Yeah, theme happened after the first 3. Just stuck. Here is Ha'ri:
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and Inu:
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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I can understand that, I've named pets after TV show characters. Myra was named after Michelle Thomas' character in Family Matters, Cole got his name because his dark face reminded me of charcoal, though it's spelled like Cole from the sitcom, Martin.

You have some nice looking bettas. Inu looks like a delta.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

That was an older pic of him, he had slight fin rot. He is a HM, almost OHM, I think he might also be a feather tail. And he has partial dragon scales on a dark red base. Very pretty now that he's recovered from PetCo. And thank you, I've gotten really lucky with Petco and Petsmart.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Well, at least he recovered from the fin rot. My delta is a full dragon with butterfly markings. The bettas at my local Petco and Petsmart are usually hit and miss which is one reason why I got my bettas from aquarium stores. Fish with exotic colors and markings like yours usually don't stay on the shelf too long.

Since he's partial dragon, if you breed him you'll probably end up with partial dragon and metallic colors.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

That's what I am hoping for from him. I learned the betta shipment days (all Thursday) around here, so I go in the evening when I feel like I need another one, lol, or when I wanted to get another "PetCo Baby" (the 6 week old ones that they sell).

BTW, Cole is gorgeous.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

I know what you mean, the aquarium stores near me get their bettas on fridays. I can't help but look at the bettas anytime I go to Petco. It's hard not to.

I've seen a silver veiltail with yellow eyes. I had thought about getting a baby betta but since I have two adults, I decided to try raising my own.

Oh, Thanks, that was one reason I got Cole, because of his markings and color. I love bettas that have an exotic appearence. I remember back in the 90s, when veiltails were the only bettas you could find in a pet store. Now halfmoons, crowntails and the like are more common. 

The baby bettas are adorable though, can't help but smile at them.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Yeah. 2 of my 3 babies survived for close to 3 months now. They've gotten so big.
Oh, better pic of Inu in my journal and on my profile. His caudal fin is hard to see in pictures, partially cellophane around the edges.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=384146


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Just looked at some of your photos, love Rin's markings. I'm hoping to get some marbles and butterflies since Cole more than likely carries those genes.

I remember when Myra was 2 months old, now she's almost a year old and looks more like an adult. 

Funny Cole's tail and anal fin is clear around the edges. My guess would be he and Inu probably had a cellophane relative in their families.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Round two. Kisa is in the mesh breeding box in the spawn tank. I will be (planning on) releasing her Sunday morning


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Hope it works out.

How is she reacting to it so far?


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*24 hours in*

Quick update before work. S swimming from both of them. Kisa is now interested in going to the cup instead of hiding, but Yue isn't quite yet. Bubble nest reconstructed after a night of negect, will post pics of original later... it was "special". Slight fin tearing on Kisa.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, 24 hours later...sounds like she trusts him now.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Kinda, I'm also starting to think Yue needs to get harassed before he wraps. Kisa's also starting to get impatient. Last time I noticed that Kisa would nip at Yue to get him to embrace her. Kinda funny, a guy more interested in foreplay than the girl, lol.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

And, after much pestering by Kisa and wiggling by Yue (I swear, I could feel the frustrated sighs coming from Kisa), we are on to practice embraces. :-D


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

Squee <3


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

And during the 3 hours that I was bowling, I think we got eggs. at least, he was showing no interest in wrapping, she was hiding again, and he was nest guarding. ....and my boyfriend says he can see grains-of-salt-like-thingies in the nest. So, now to see if any were properly fertilized. I'll post the pre mating nest pics tomorrow and probably upload an edited mating vid or two.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Hope it works out. Sounds like it went well.


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

Look forward to the pics and video


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Same here.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*Nest, pre mating*

like I said... it was special.
View attachment 379810
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He kept pulling the plants under the cup. I took them out like 5 times before saying "screw it." He took them out when he rebuilt the nest the nest day.

He is definitely nest guarding, so we'll see what we can see.

Don't have any egg bearing wrap videos yet, but I have one more to watch. Instead, I will post the link for the warm-ups, aka Kisa's frustration, tomorrow, as it is now bedtime.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

There are fry!!! They are so cute. Im so excited!!!!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

youtube link: http://youtu.be/_-LAxBzbjBU


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, that's great.


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

great job, he is a beautiful boy


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks  I'm counting 20 fry, so between 15 and 30 is my current ball park and he is doing a fantastic job keeping them off the bottom... and flaring everytime someone lifts the blanket to peak inside.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Pulled Yue today. Only able to find 5 fry, but they were free swimming, so the others are probably hiding in the dense floating vegetation. At least, I'm not seeing any on the bottom, so, hoping they are just hiding.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Hope there's a few more, though five isn't bad, could've been worse. I've also heard it's not uncommon for first time betta parents to have small spawns. Looking forward to seeing what colors and markings you end up with.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

I can't either. I think I saw 12 today when I suctioned a little of the dead plant matter off the bottom. going to clean a bit more tomorrow while adding .5 gallons.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

12 isn't a bad number for a first spawn.

Hopefully they'll have nice colors and markings.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

they should be interesting, from the info/guess I got on my color question in the breeding section. Whole mix of different possible color types and markings, with most of them probably being deltas


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## DoryAndNemo (May 1, 2014)

Pictures of the fry? xD I love Betta pictures. Will you be selling some?


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

depending on how many survive. I will probably sell all the males (already have 4 adults and 2 4 or 5 month olds ), but I might keep a female or two for my community tank. And I'll try for pics... they are quick little boogers with a lot of floating plants to hide in.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, sounds like it's going well. I'm probably going to keep a female if my own spawn attempt is a success.

Hard part is which one to keep and which ones will be leaving home.


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Congrats and good luck


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Okay, pic update. Can consistentally find 6, usually 7, ocassionally more.
Dad during waiting time...every time someone looked under the blanket (6/24):
View attachment 384449

Protective Yue on hatching day with fry (6/25):
View attachment 384457

Fry are one week old today (7/2):
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There are four there, but they are still smallish


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, nice photos. The one where he flares is hilarious. My male doesn't flare a lot, not even at his own reflection. I think after a while they realize the fish they're looking at is them.


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

dawwww, such a good protective daddy


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*2 week Update.*

And, they turned 15 days today. Okay, happily eating BBS, and are also eating the eggs that settle on the bottom when I feed them BBS. They are getting so big!! Tank is now full to 10 gallon. I have counted as many as 14, but may have double counted a couple. Can consistently find at least 10. There are a couple that are white, and the rest have camo stripes. Here are pics:
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The dark blob in the foreground of the first pic is a baby that the camera sadly couldn't focus on. He was staring straight at the camera.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Aw, so little.

Betta fry are so cute!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

I know, right? Sadly, I can't get the smallest of the fry to let me take a picture of them. They hide as soon as anyone looks in the tank.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

That bites. My female had trust issues when I got her, but being only 2 months old and away from her sisters at the time was understandable. She came around, now she eats bloodworms off my finger tip.

Any particular colors or markings you're hoping for with this spawn?

I'm hoping to get some marbles and butterflies out of my attempt.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Not particularly. I just really liked the twos colorings, especially Kisa's, and personalities. Both are very mild mannered, curious, and friendly(ish, for a betta). If anything, a pastel or yellow would be awesome. Although, thinking about it, I'd be interested in seeing if I could get a non traditional Cambodian outta the pair.


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

That'd be cool. My bettas have mild temperements so I'm hoping it'll be passed on to their fry. One perk for setting up sororities, community tanks and breeding. Some bettas flare at the drop of a dime, others don't even make eye contact with the fish next to them.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

All of mine flare (including the females), but the only one I've had a problem with where tank mates were concerned was Ha'ri. Notorious shrimp killer, and the one time a tetra snuck into her side, she blinded him. I don't think she'll work out in a community tank at all, but I'll try her in a breeder first and see if she calms down. She'll probably end up in my grow tank (when I buy one) [really want to buy one of those "farm tanks" where you can grow house plants on top and have the roots help filter the water, and use it to grow cat grass and cat nip]


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow. My bettas do flare but not as much. 

I had read some bettas were actually bred to be extremely aggressive but since fish fights have been outlawed in some places, many people now breed bettas strictly for show or the pet market. I've seen videos of Thai breeders on youtube, they have probably hundreds of fish with various colors, markings and fins.

Years ago, veiltails were the only ones available in pet stores. Now halfmoons and others are available.

The Petco I get dog food from had some betta fry in this week and they were so cute! One of them was white and red with butterfly markings, there was a veiltail female that was a sort of indigo blue. I'm assuming she was probably six weeks old. Overall, a nice fish...


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

It's crazy that they are selling them that young, but I agree with the speculation that it's mostly trying to make a buck off of culls. Although, the two I have appear to be growing into very healthy young fish (if the double tail would just let me know his gender, it would be perfect). And I've recently been noticing an increase in variety of tail types (although, half of them are mislabeled) and colors becoming available at the chain stores.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*30 day update*

Okay, sorry I haven't been doing regular updates everyone . Working outside in this heat has really been kicking my tail. 30 days in, and I'm starting to see color!! A lot of them are showing red fins, at least 7 traditional Cambodians. Body coloring wise, it's about a 50/50 split between dark bodied, and white/pale. A couple still don't have fin colorings, 2 seem to have occasional slight SBD. They all have started to recognize that lid up means food or cleaning. And they have all adjusted to frozen food, and the bigger ones are actually starting to prefer the pellets (NLS growth). I have counted up to 20 during feedings, so potential of double counts. And, during the entire time, only found 2 dead ones, and those were during the first 10 days. 3 are very small, but runts will happen.

I'll take pictures tomorrow or Sunday, give everyone a look at them :-D


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Looking forward to it!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

and everybody is doing good. they weren't really happy at me because I did a bottom cleaning yesternight, and a couple tried to see if my hand was food. Anyway, on to pictures. Commence photobomb:
View attachment 400802
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See why I have a hard time counting?


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Wow, full house.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Feeding time. At least 18, maybe as many as 22.


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## Ashthemutt (Jan 13, 2014)

Ohh so cute! I'd love a girl for my sorority


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

You live continental US?


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

great update!!!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

And everyone is still good. They eat like little piggies. There are definitely 20, and their colors are really starting to come in. One looks like he might be a yellow, a couple of the others are getting black butterfly-ish marks along their fins, and there are a whole lot of Cambodians. Three seem to have swim bladder issues (two with sinking tails, one with super buoyancy), but that doesn't seem to bother them too much (three of the bigger ones).

Feeding them daphnia is kinda funny. 5 seconds after they start eating, they also start relieving themselves. So, at least they are healthy.

Does anyone know when ovaries start to develop?

Anyway, pics or video update tomorrow.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

As promised, 2 minute feeding vid:

http://youtu.be/Xn_8wQ5X1tc


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

a quick word only update.

The fry are now just over 7 weeks (I'll post picks on the 8th week hatch time). They are (for the most part) so big! All but the two runts are bigger than Uo and Hana were when I got them, and I guesstimated that they were both about 7 or 8 weeks old then (PetCo babies). They actually look like real (minute) betta fish with stumpy fins. A couple of the bigger ones are starting to look like they are getting small cloudy, vaguely cone shaped shadows behind their stomachs (really hope I'm not imagining the maroon Cambodian one, really want that one for Rin II for the sorority tank). Also, a handful are developing black or clear bands around the outer edge of their fins.

I can now say with absolute certainty that there are 20 fry (maybe 22, I don't know if I counted the runts, they are rather good at hiding).


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## EpicBetta (Aug 15, 2014)

Wow!  Your bettas are pretty. I LOOOOVE Yue, and Kisa is pretty too. I have a local PetCo, and their bettas are up and down. 

I saw a GORGEUS Dark Standard Blue and white HM Butterfly the other day at PetCo. I almost got it, but then I realised I didn't have that big 33 gallon long tank I was going to get for christmas and split into 6 and have them each get 5 gallons or a little less. A Current USA Led freshwater plus LED tank light, it changes colors and everything! I want to get a White Baby Betta. I am not spawning because I don't have a lot of room.

Well, I got totally OFF TOPIC. But how much work is it to do a spawn of about 3 bettas? I would use a Purple/Red DTHM and maybe a White Plakat Female? I wanna get some purples  I have the Purple DTHM already! He's gorgeus. Of course, I got him from PetCo. I NEED A FEMALE. I'd have to let the male eat a lot.


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you. I've been really really lucky with the PetCo and PetsMarts around here. I almost didn't get Yue (didn't have a spare tank), but bargained with myself that I could get him if he was still there the next day and house him with my Glofish. I think I'm going to spawn Tony and Yuki (looks almost exactly like Rin with red splotches on her caudal fin) next, get some multis. Their pics are on my journal: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=384146&page=3 or on page 620 of the betta picture thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=4856050&highlight=yuki#post4856050 . Or do another Yue Kisa (or spawnling) spawn.

can't really control the spawn number. Though, anecdotes indicate that virgin and second spawns are usually rather small due to the inexperience of the pair. Honestly, not that much work, just more frequent water changes and feedings. I had a small enough spawn that I didn't really need to split them into groups (recommended for larger spawns for stable growth and adequate food). After the first two weeks, they readily attacked frozen foods, so I was able to phase out live BBS pretty quick. Most difficult part is waiting for them to mate. SO NERVE-RACKING! Most time-consuming part is getting everything ready: food cultures, growing and spawn tanks, figuring out what to do with the fry you don't keep, jarring situation


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## EpicBetta (Aug 15, 2014)

I heard somewhere that you can get a smaller spawn by letting the parents eat a lot of the eggs?


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

You can, but there's no guarantee the parents will eat the eggs. The female usually will, but if the male is still in the tank he will chase her off and perhaps kill her for threatening his fry. Males usually only eat infertile or fungus infected eggs barring any other circumstances (like stress), though sometimes you just get an egg eater who will finish off an entire spawn.

So in short, yes you can allow the parents to eat the eggs, but it's not exactly guaranteed that you will end up with a smaller spawn by allowing that. They may not eat the eggs, or they may eat every single one. You can't exactly lean over and whisper into the male's ear "Hey, bon appetit... but don't go nuts, k?"


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

+1 for kevin


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

*8 weeks and 20 fry later*

They are getting so big!! Got bloodworms today for their 8 week hatching anniversary. Still only lost those to deformed ones during the first week, so, I think I'm good on them surviving.

Pics:
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## EpicBetta (Aug 15, 2014)

Why is there a penny on the tank?

They are very pretty


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

My guess would be so you can get an idea how big the fish are. It's for scale.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The penny's a pretty good idea, actually. They are so tiny and cute!


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## scififan523 (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks, and yes, the penny is for size reference


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## EpicBetta (Aug 15, 2014)

Thats a good idea!


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