# Is a bowl a good size for a small size betta?



## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I think the bowl is not too small for him


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## starlight910 (Jul 25, 2014)

Do you know how many gallons it is? And does it have a lid?


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well its a gallon and no it does not have a lid he is a small betta


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

A small betta can mean he can grow to a big one  if he is an "infant" size (like a fry) I would defeniatley keep him until he grows a bit more... So maybe just for a temporary house hold? Idk, that's just me.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I dont think its a fry its a small betta


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

People might crucify me, but... If you play your cards right, that could be an appropriately sized bowl. It is not the size that matters but your water quality. In your current state, that tank is unideal for a betta's long term care for the following reasons:

1) no heating- don't see heating or means of heating anywhere. 
2) no filtration system-- means frequent water changes. This is why a 2.5 gallon is more favorable for many betta owners as it reduces the number of times water has to be changed.

If you have these things set, it is possible. 
I would also swap out plastic plants for live ones as they will not destroy your betta's fins but also help the filter out by processing fish waste.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well its warm in the house so i wont need a heater i change his water once a week


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

i do a 50% change on my 2.5 gallon two times a week. So a 1 gallon would need probably twice that. And my betta in that tank is small. Like 1/3rd smaller than my other bettas. And it is filtered, and heavily planted. So i think a minimum of 4 50% changes a week. Or 2 100% changes at the absolute minimum. 
And by "warm" do you mean 85F? or 75F? Remember the water is around 5 degrees cooler than the air temp. (although in that small a tank, maybe closer to 2-3 degrees cooler).
I think, if you keep the water conditions pristine (and this is where a testing kit would come in handy) a 1 gallon could be ok. I don't do a 1 gallon merely because I don't want to do that many water changes. Especially unfiltered. I had a 3 gallon unfiltered for a while, and I did 2 100% and 1 50% water changes on it a week. And that was just to keep the ammonia under .25ppm. Any longer than 4 days in the 3 gallon without a water change and ammonia spiked to .50ppm. If you have a testing kit, definitely test to see what your ammonia is at every day, and do a water change whenever it hits .25ppm.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I agree with Amphirion. Some members on this forum are particularly zealous about tank sizes, I am not one of them. 

Personally, I find water quality and water temperature to be much more important for the health of the fish than swimming space. 

Do you own an ammonia test kit? If I had an uncycled one gallon bowl I would certainly be investing in one. Ammonia can build up quickly in a bowl this size, and without a test kit, you have no idea as to whether your current maintenance is enough to keep it at safe levels. 

Secondly, unless your house is sitting at tropical temperatures 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, I would invest in a heater. Temperature fluctuations are more extreme in smaller bodies of water. A heater will help hold the temperature stable. Not only do temperature fluctuations that take place over a short period of time cause stress, but they can also trigger disease. 

Bettas are tropical fish, and water that is of an appropriate temperature is vital to their health and well-being.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Yep my house is preety warm i got a ammonia test kit its all good


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

But is your house consistently 78-85 degrees all year round? If not, you're going to need a heater eventually. I'm just saying this since even though I live somewhere very warm(It's 99 degrees out today and it's only 80 in here with no AC) and even I still need a heater to keep my water at 80 degrees even. If my heater was off, at 80 degrees, my water would be 75. Which is a large drop.

Temperature changes aren't good for them. It can weaken their immune system and therefore make them sick. You want the temperature to be consistently the same all the time. A mini-heater will only run you about $15 for a 10w. It's a good investment. I'm sure someone could probably even direct you to a cheaper one.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The bowl is fine as long as you keep the water clean. I don't recommend the decor you have, and you really do want a heater. They make cute little heaters for bowls, and they don't cost that much. 

Temperature changes a lot between the day and the night. It's going to be 106 on Saturday in my area. My fish all still have heaters. It's to keep the temperature stable just as much as it is to keep the water warm.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

you need a heater. no discussion. unless it is 90 degrees + every day (even at night) without change (which i highly doubt it is sorry).

My answer is yes and no. 

You need a heater first. After that you need to do at least a 50% water change every day with multiple 100% water changes a week. 

1 gallon tanks are a lot of work and your fish can easily get sick if you do not keep the water quality good.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

No i do not need a heater its warm all day and night here thank you all


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Is it 90+ at night too? we only want best for your fish.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

No 78 all night never drops at all


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

that actually means your water is too cold. since water is colder than room temperature. 

The reason why heaters are required is because temperature changes (even a few degrees) are not good for bettas. That is why there is no exception when it comes to heaters.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

No the house temp is 78 the tank is 78 all night and day 78 is good


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

we'll agree to disagree. however, my prior experience (15 years of it) has proven how important heaters are. 

Why are you seeking advice if you are not going to take anyone's advice? I'm just curious.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I was seeking advice for the bowl size not if i need a heater or not


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

you were seeking advice if the bowl was good for your betta. tank size is NOT the only important thing when i comes to betta keeping.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well thats all i was seeking advice for tank size i am not getting a heater i had mine for 9 months now so they are fine


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

aselvarial said:


> Remember the water is around 5 degrees cooler than the air temp. (although in that small a tank, maybe closer to 2-3 degrees cooler).





VivianKJean said:


> that actually means your water is too cold. since water is colder than room temperature.


While it may feel colder to the touch it actually is not. 

Betta breeders heat the room, not the smallish containers they keep fish in. If you can provide this level of care you're all good. 

In any heated room, higher up will be warmer, lower down will be cooler. Betta breeders use this to their advantage, anyone running a heated fishroom does. I've got some tanks with the heaters pulled in my fishroom, I can put the thermometer in the tank, or next to it, it will read the same. This is regardless of tank size. The water in the tank will be the same temperature as the air surrounding it. Now if you blow a fan across the top, due to evaporation you may drop it a couple degrees, but with the low flow of the filtration commonly associated with bettas this evaporation will cause no noticeable drop, in an unfiltered tank it will sit at room temperature.

For some fun with sensation & temperature, get 3 bowls. Fill the one on the left with ice cold water. Fill the one in the middle with room temperature water. Fill the one on the right with water as hot as you can stand to put your hand in. Put your left hand in the left bowl, your right hand in the right bowl, for 2 minutes. After 2 minutes put both hands in the middle bowl.

Is the middle bowl warm or cold?


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## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

Tolak said:


> While it may feel colder to the touch it actually is not.
> 
> Betta breeders heat the room, not the smallish containers they keep fish in. If you can provide this level of care you're all good.
> 
> ...


I know I need a heater because if I remove the thermometer from the tank, the temp it records goes down and then the temp will go back up once I put it in the tank. So I know my "air" is colder than my tank. Especially during the summer since I run my AC at 74 degrees in my bedroom. During the winter I don't have control over my heat and the landlord turns the heat down at night. I can't relie on Spring or Fall to make my apartment a fish friendly temp either because Spring and Fall aren't tropical in New York.

Basically, I'm playing devils advocate by giving examples of when the water/air temp difference isn't a myth or mistaken sensation. I know what breeders do, but I am one of many people who can not keep the room with my fish a constant temperature or the correct temperature. I can't even have live plants in my tanks without a heater because the temps in my apartment are too unsteady. :roll:

I also like to keep my tanks at about 80. Maybe you don't see a difference with your thermometer because you run your tanks at 78 degrees and the room with the tank is also 78 degrees?


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Well yea, if you have a heater in your tank & set it to warmer than room temperature that tank should be warmer, provided your heater is functioning properly. We're talking a tank without a heater with a room at a constant temperature. Per the OP;



Ilovebettasbk11 said:


> No the house temp is 78 the tank is 78 all night and day 78 is good


In this situation, if the room is always 78 the tank in it will remain at 78 without a heater, provided you don't add anything such as lights that will generate heat near the tank. 

Not all my tanks have no heater, just a few. I run heaters in angel tanks to bring them up a few degrees. I'll quar outside the fishroom, those tanks being in the basement sure do get heaters, they'd drop well below 70F if they didn't!


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## SunnyCydUp (Aug 31, 2014)

By virtue of the tank being only 1 gallon AND glass, the ability to consistently regulate the temperature is more difficult than were it a 5 gallon, or a 10 gallon, which, more than likely would be heated. _(Tolak, I've read your comments and respect your opinion; the difference here is this is clearly not in a room set up/dedicated to fish.)_ The bowl will heat up faster; it'll cool down faster. 

To to OP, you seem defiantly confident your 78 degree house never fluctuates. Are the windows never open? Sun never shines in through a window? How close to a window is the bowl? 

While you've made your point *quite* clear you're only interested in determining if your bowl is too small, heater issue aside - I'm saying - YES, it's too small. Why? You posted the tank sitting on the corner of a crowded nightstand. Is that where you plan on keeping it? Are you willing to risk that bowl getting knocked off? Heater wouldn't be relevant then at all.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

What if it does creep up to 80F during a sunny day, and maybe drop to 77F at night? Do you really think a daily gradual temperature shift such as that is going to matter all that much? How much is OK, and how much is too much? 

Also, that 1 gallon bowl may be a happy dog's tail away from disaster, it may be located in the most safe area of the house. Only the OP knows that one, and would hopefully do their best to prevent an incident.


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## farmgirl82 (Jul 30, 2014)

1 gallon bowl with no heater or filter & water changes only once a week. It's sad that's all your willing to do for your pets health & well-being. Poor fish :-(


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I kinda have to agree with the above. The members on this site are only trying to give your pet the best chance. If you aren't will to at least consider our advice then I suggest you leave this forum.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

We are trying to tell you that the size of the bowl is not the only thing that matters for the health and well-being of your fish. If you are so confident that you are doing things right by not heating and not filtering, then why did you even bother asking us about the bowl? Please do not ask for advice if you have no intention of taking it.

What you are doing to the fish is the equivalent of someone locking you in your bathroom at about 55 degrees fahrenheit and giving you a bottle of Windex to clean your surroundings once a week. Can you survive? Probably. Will you be healthy and happy? Doubtful.


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## imaal (Aug 10, 2014)

+1 Well said, kevinap2.


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## Rosewynn (Apr 9, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> I kinda have to agree with the above. The members on this site are only trying to give your pet the best chance. If you aren't will to at least consider our advice then I suggest you leave this forum.


I don't think they would need to leave the forum but it seems like they should refrain from asking anymore questions on here because it seems pointless. Eventually, people will stop responding to their questions since they know there's really no point and it's not worth the 30 seconds it takes to type up a response. 

You ask question A which is a great thing to do, gaining knowledge for the benefit of your pet. But OP; what's the point in fixing problem A when problem B is just as big of a problem and yet you're not willing to even attempt to remedy that issue? I just don't get it.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

i dont like what im seeing. How would you like to be locked up in a small space such as a shower, with nothing to keep you warm. No clothes on your back, no blanket to keep you warm and stay like that day and night with fluctuating temperatures. Would you like to live like that? I doubt it, but thats what you're going to subject your betta to. Its NOT okay to let a betta live in unheated tanks of 26 deg celsius. They are TROPICAL fish, not cold water. Letting a fish live in less than ideal conditions is equivalent to animal cruelty.


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## Piyoteru (Apr 17, 2014)

Do a little test, get a thermometer (the bowl needs one, heater or not so you can check in case). Leave the thermometer in your fish bowl and check it at different times of the day and record the temperature down.

Did it fluctuate? Was the temperature always above 75F? If it's always constant above 75F, the bowl may be fine without a heater- but you should check the thermometer daily in case. 

When breeders heat up a room, they heat it up much higher than what's normally warm for us. I've been to betta shows where the room feels like a sauna, because they're trying to keep the water at 80F in all the small tanks without heaters.

@sharkettelaw1 26 deg celsius is about 80F, which is absolutely fine for bettas.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Piyoteru
@sharkettelaw1 26 deg celsius is about 80F said:


> according to google conversions, (i checked because i thought my thermostat is wrong) 26 degrees is 78.8F.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Ve Vill beat you into using our methods! :evil:

Someone suggest a heater suitable for this size setup, send me a link. Ilovebettasbk11; PM me an address to ship to.

Rather than belittling the OP maybe folks need to step up more. Lord knows I make a few extra bucks on the side with this aquatics junk, big busy auction tomorrow, I may see a small heater cheap. I know I'll see some profit from what I sell, and plenty of times that profit goes back into the hobby, often in situations just like this. 

This is how you help a fishkeeper become an aquarist, and keep the hobby going. Ripping their head off over a setup that could use some upgrades does not accomplish that.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

In this case _no one _needs to "step up" to help OP. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink.Since their betta is "fine" with no heater, why give them one? They probably won't even use it. They seem pretty set against the idea and have given no other reason other than "My betta isn't dead, therefore it's working." That's not even the beginning mentality of a regular fishkeeper let alone a future aquarist. Bettas are hardy. If this mentality was applied to many other kinds of fish, they would've been belly up pretty fast.

Plus, a 1 gallon is hard to heat anyway. I agree with what was said earlier, the temperature will fluctuate a lot more in that size. I think even a 5w might be too much for it? I know my 10w got the water in my 2 gallon quarantine container cooking when I let it sit for more than an hour. It would need to be watched constantly if there was no automatic shut off. 

To actually answer OP's question too, just going to repeat what everyone has already said -
-More water changes. Weekly is not enough. Your ammonia test should tell you that. Go for every other day at _least_.
-Again, heater. I don't even see a thermometer in that bowl, how do you know it stays the same all day? Room temperature does not equal water temperature.
-Lid. They can and will jump if it strikes their fancy. _Size of the betta does not matter._ You can even just use plastic wrap with air holes in it. In fact, this also helps to trap humidity which makes it easier for your betta to breathe. If you're really this dead-set against a heater, at least help your bowl trap what heat it does have. 

If you get a chance and weekly water changes are what you want to be doing, save up and upgrade to 2.5+ gallon. 1 gallons are a large amount of work. It's why most here don't use them. They're hard to heat and need constant cleaning. IMO, the level of care it takes is honestly rather tiring and I'd never have one as a permanent betta home. They are really only for the most dedicated of betta owners because the daily water changes are necessary to keep ammonia down.

I'm honestly shocked that all of you got so caught up in the heater, you all forgot to notice weekly water changes on a 1 gallon. That's also a major concern.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

PLEASE keep it civil folks. Name calling and finger pointing aren't tolerated on this forum. I understand that some get frustrated with these types of threads but try to make your point respectfully. If you can't or feel like you're not getting anywhere, please move on.

Thread has been edited to remove snark. 

Thanks,
Romad


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Maybe if you set a bit nicer tone rather than the way this is rolling the OP might be a bit more receptive. 

Breeders do water changes on half gallon jars every other day, you've got what amounts to a gallon jar here. So change water twice a week, half way between give it a squirt of Prime for any ammonia issues, and carry on. I don't see anyone bashing breeders with half gallon jars & beanie boxes, you've got someone working with double that water volume if not more, and you can apply what breeders do to this situation as far as water changes are concerned. Toss in some low light floating plants & you may well be able to get by with weekly water changes.

I drop 25w heaters in 2.5's & 5's without any issues of overheating, the lower rack of small tanks in my setup gets brought up a few degrees from room temperature. 

Room temperature does not equal tank temperature in an unheated & unfiltered tank is a straight up myth. Water does not have any magical properties that make it cooler than room temperature. Without any outside influences such as sunlight, an open window on a cold day, or sitting next to a frequently used toaster that tank will stay at room temperature provided the room temperature is stable.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

The tone started out fine. It escalated from there. OP seems to ignore anyone who isn't bothering them anyway. Which says to me that they are not looking to improve the conditions. 

And breeders aren't bashed for that because you don't use those half gallon jars as permanent homes for the entire lifespan of a betta. 

And really, what are the odds OP never opens their window, never puts AC or a fan on, or never gets sunlight in that room? Unless you're doing that on purpose like you do for breeding, the temperature in their bowl is going to be changing. This person is not a breeder and shouldn't be given advice like they are.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I never open the windows or put ac on we mom and i are tropical people too we like it warm and thats the truth


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Oh and i never ever called anyone a troll here so you know


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Then that would just leave sunlight as a thing. Sorry we're so skeptical here, but it's very very _very_ rare that someone legitimately and _truly _tropical shows up here. It seems like it almost never happens.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I was born in tropical weather so yea i am i dont like the ac on its too cold for me i like it warm


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Reccka said:


> The tone started out fine. It escalated from there. OP seems to ignore anyone who isn't bothering them anyway. Which says to me that they are not looking to improve the conditions.
> 
> And breeders aren't bashed for that because you don't use those half gallon jars as permanent homes for the entire lifespan of a betta.


Breeders aren't going to risk a potential show winner & start of a new line to sub standard animal husbandry. They might bump that show winner up to a 2.5 or 5, they might double it to a gallon bowl.



Reccka said:


> And really, what are the odds OP never opens their window, never puts AC or a fan on, or never gets sunlight in that room? Unless you're doing that on purpose like you do for breeding, the temperature in their bowl is going to be changing. This person is not a breeder and shouldn't be given advice like they are.





Ilovebettasbk11 said:


> I never open the windows or put ac on we mom and i are tropical people too we like it warm and thats the truth


Looks like those odds are higher than you thought. So how much temperature change is acceptable? Still waiting for an answer on that one.

I'm telling the OP how they can apply what breeders do to their setup, as well as skill level. If I were giving advice like they were a breeder you'd be seeing links to gas fired space heaters, humidity control schemes, water change systems & so on. I'd be suggesting changing water in jars 2-3 times weekly, then conditioning the potential breeder in a 10 half full of water with minimal filtration, 80, maybe 82F.

If it were my setup & skill level the fish would go in a 2.5 on the end of a rack, silk plant & a couple small pieces of wood, large ugly blue sponge filter & heated to 80F.

Looking at what the OP has to work with, I'm drawing from all of these, and suggesting what may apply. I've known people to keep bettas long term in similar conditions who are not breeders. Keep it warm, keep it clean, learn as much as you can from others & apply as needed. The way breeders do things may not be for the individual, but you can draw ideas from it. The way I do things may not be either, once again, use what you can. Nobody here has an identical situation, you use what works best for you.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

if it ever drops is 1 degree lower and you said what works best for me is having no heater


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

The water is warm and clean and people blast me i need a heater


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Also people could had just said oh well as long as the water is warm and clean then you are good but no they assume they know my house is cold


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Oh and by the way i had my fish for nine months now you tell me if all of them are not well taken care of


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

+1 Tolak.

If the temperature is truly tropical, there's no need for a heater. A lot of us forget that not everyone is at somewhere in the mid-30's latitude, including me - which is why my initial suggestion of a heater. But, not everyone has a 20-30 degree drop in temperature at night.

As time has gone on and I have pulled my information from a variety of sources, I've come to the conclusion that a small bowl is, in fact, just fine...as long as the water quality is good. Yes, many breeders _do_, in fact, keep their fish in half gallon jars for their entire lifetime, excluding when they are in the breeding tubs ... they just do water changes 3x a week. If you're intensely working a line and you're keeping 3 or 4 related families of fish, amounting to 20+ keepers just for breeding, not even counting show fish, having gallon or 2.5 gallon containers for every single fish is practically undoable due to space concerns. Heck, some fish farms in Thailand use _whiskey bottles_. The fish remain healthy. The key is water quality.

So in short, as long as the temperature is warm and stable, a bowl is most certainly fine. And, we should remember to be polite, be kind, and _not assume that the OP is lying._..because goodness gracious, that's just rude.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

thank you hrutan you are awesome


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Tolak said:


> Breeders aren't going to risk a potential show winner & start of a new line to sub standard animal husbandry. They might bump that show winner up to a 2.5 or 5, they might double it to a gallon bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly though, the odds were low. Tropical members are an extreme rarity here. And people who never open a window are probably even more so. I'd dare to call them the 1% of this forum's members. There are plenty of people who come in and say "I don't need a heater! My betta hasn't died, so he's good!" and then it turns out they're living in Minnesota in the middle of winter or something equally ridiculous. It's reasonable for everyone to be skeptical here. 

For a beginner keeper it's best to keep it simple IMO. Taking ideas from things above one's skill level isn't always the best course. But it is ultimately up to the owner.

As for temperature, I can't answer that. I won't pretend to be on a higher experience level than I am. Personally, I would think a change of 5 degrees or more in a hour would be bad and would probably shock the betta. 5 degrees over 5 hours I would think is mostly harmless, but someone else will have to answer that for you since that wasn't a question directed at me earlier in the thread anyway.

And as an added note, if the change in temperature can cause illness, why even take that risk? There's really no reason to. A heater isn't a big deal in cases outside this one.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I am glad to find being tropical is rare here lol no way i would let my fish be cold in winter i turn the heater in my house up!


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

hrutan said:


> +1 Tolak.
> 
> If the temperature is truly tropical, there's no need for a heater. A lot of us forget that not everyone is at somewhere in the mid-30's latitude, including me - which is why my initial suggestion of a heater. But, not everyone has a 20-30 degree drop in temperature at night.
> 
> ...


I find that mildly disturbing to think of a betta living 3-5 years in a whiskey bottle...even if the water quality is good. But my opinion on breeding conditions like that is a whole other thing I won't go into lol

I still think the initial skepticism was called for, but it definitely wasn't right for anyone to full-on attack OP for it. That just got totally out of hand. 
I don't know about everyone else, but maybe I'm too used to the rest of the internet where you should always assume OP is lying. :|


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I am sorry you feel that way reccka but i dont have to prove anything to you or anyone and yea that dude needs to apologize to me for cLljng me that word


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm just saying it probably would've been easier if you stated your country when people started getting riled up and then people probably would've laid off. Like hrutan said, most people probably went and assumed you were in the US or something similar.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

I am not telling anyone where i live thanks very much


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

That's your right. Just saying in case this situation happens to you again on another forum or elsewhere. Last thread like this I saw, the guy just said he lived in Hawaii(IIRC. Something like that) and everyone just went "Oh ok" lol.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well i dont need to prove anything to them so yea


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Ilovebettasbk11 do you feel you have anything else to gain from this thread ? if not I can close it for you


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## Rosewynn (Apr 9, 2013)

Ilovebettasbk11 said:


> Oh and by the way i had my fish for nine months now you tell me if all of them are not well taken care of


You keep saying this but do you realize that A) 9 months isn't really a huge feat since most pet shop bettas can live 2+ years and B) There is a difference between staying alive versus thriving. If I locked you in a bathroom for 9 months you would still be alive provided I fed you but would you be content?


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Wow this isn't anything but drama now. This going back and forth needs to end ! 

Closing the thread folks, its not doing anyone any good now * sighs * nothing to be gained now but grief.


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