# 20 gallon community tank



## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

Ok hi my name is sara (new to this, very first post ever i think) I have one blue beautiful male betta in a 5 gallon, planted, heated tank (78f-82f) w/out a filter (weekly 50% water changes). I recently inherited a 24wx17htx12d 20 gallon tank from my job. I would like to start a fresh water community tank including my betta and i have read so far 4 books trying to figure out how this would best be done. I get too much vague/conflicting information so i came here. (sorry this is kind of a long and conveluted question) I guess i need to know what fish are compatible and how many can fit. so far I am told that harlequin rasboras are good as are white cloud minnows though i would think they were too flashy and my betta might go after them. I definetly want some cories but i also want to cycle the tank and i know i can't do that with either the cories or my betta so i am looking for fish that i can cycle with. Also i was thinking about an Ancistrus catfish AKA bristlenose or bushy nose cats and was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of these catfish ( all i know is that they are peaceful and nocturnal). So thats what i've got so far any suggestions or advice? Thankyou


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

it is possible to cycle with your betta but you need to be dedicated to doing daily water changes.

Here is a thread that basically explains how to do a safe cycle..
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=34505

I'm not familiar with any of the other fish you mentioned so I can't help ya there.. sorry.


edit to add.. if you try to cycle a 20 gall with only 1 betta in there it will take a really long time. You might try adding mystery snails as they tend to be "poopers" (but great algae eaters).. live plants can also speed your cycle. There may be other fish you can add but I'm not sure what they would be.


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

Well unfortunately i work full time and have a two year old and a husband working two jobs at the moment so time is an issue and daily water changes can't be guaranteed but thank you for the info


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

if you can't do daily water changes (these are small 20-30%) then you need to look up doing a fishless cycle and not put any of your fish in there until the tank is fully cycled.

If you don't do daily water changes during a cycle with fish in the ammonia WILL burn your fish's gills and the nitrites could poison him. The levels get WAY too high to not do water changes.


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm not sure i'm understanding from everything i have read if you have a hardy fish or group then while cycling you need to check levels daily but may not need a water change depending on tank size and number of fish unless the levels spike, but with all my plants it will take alot to spike the levels.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Any reading 0.25 ppm or over needs a water change daily. Sure your fish may survive the cycle but at what cost? All that adding fish does is cycle you faster because they are producing more waste. And there is no such thing as "hardy fish".. some are just able to survive a cycle.. but that doesn't mean they are unharmed.

Your plants will keep the spikes low but the only way to ensure the saftey of your fish when doing a fish in cycle is to do water changes to keep the ammonia from harming them.


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

ok i still am not understanding you need levels of ammonia, nitrate, and eventually nitrite high enough to promote the growth of the beneficial bacteria in the bio filter but i will continue doing more research in the meantime as its going to be a while until i can establish another tank. but cycling wasn't what i meant to post this thread for what i really want to know is about fish compatability with bettas and how many for a 20 gallon tank. So thank you again. And when I do get to the actual cycling if i have any questions i now know where i can look for some help. thank you


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## Eolith (Aug 4, 2009)

Personally, I would let my betta stay in his nice little 5g and just start up the 20g separately. It opens up a heck of a lot more options and reduces stress on the betta and the other fish.


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

I wish i could but space is tight (apartment living) and i was lucky enough to convince my husband to get the one betta and he balked at the 5 gallon tank and i just got him warmed up to the 20 gallon w/a couple more fish. But i am gonna keep the 5 gallon set up for a while once i add Pepe (my 2 yr old named him ) just in case there is an issue, so who knows i may end up with two tanks anyway lol


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## Eolith (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm in a dorm room with three other people. Space isn't only tight, it's nonexistant. ^_^ Somehow I've managed to fit a 5g, a 6g, and a 10g in here though. Where there's a will, there's always a way! Hehe


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## Splinter492 (Aug 24, 2009)

if i were you i would just get a few minnows, you know the ones they sell for like 13 cents as live food and cycle your tank with those. after its cycles you can put your little fishy friends in there. good luck! =)


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

thank you that advice sounds good. Makes sense


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Splinter492 said:


> if i were you i would just get a few minnows, you know the ones they sell for like 13 cents as live food and cycle your tank with those. after its cycles you can put your little fishy friends in there. good luck! =)


wait.. put minnows in there while it cycles? Why is it ok to expose them to high levels of ammonia and possibly death and not the fish intended to go in the tank? 

Unless I'm wrong the op already said she doesn't have the time to do a small water change everyday to keep the levels from becoming dangerous. Really the only safe option is a fishless cycle.


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## Splinter492 (Aug 24, 2009)

its just an option i mean these minnows were intended to be eaten by other fish and some fish are very expensive and delicate and require a cycled tank to survive. i know its wrong to potentially kill a little minnow but its an option and not to look at it morbidly or in a business perspective but minnows are very in expensive and are readily avaliable in almost all places.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

it would be even cheaper just to do a fishless cycle with ammonia. Plus theres a difference between feeding a minnow or using it as bait and forcing it to suffer painful ammonia burns and be slowly poisoned to death. Plus what if the minnows survive? just throw them down the toilet? I don't know anyone who keeps minnows as pets.


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## Splinter492 (Aug 24, 2009)

you know i don't really feel like arguing about minnow right and feelings if its cheaper and easier to do a fish less cycle then she can do it im just giving her a very available and very easy to do option. and if the minnows do survive its your choice what to do with them. you have your opinions on how to cycle a tank as do I and I would greatly appreciate if you were to leave me to my opinions. im sorry if they offend you but there are many things in this world that probably will.


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## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

While you both give sound advice and i appreciate it I'm actually going to start by setting up the filter in the tank and run it with no fish for a while and every time i change the water in my bettas tank I'll add it to the larger tank and let the bacterial build that way. 

As for adding straight ammonia i will not put ammonia in my house we try to keep things as natural as possible especially for my son. 

what i meant by "hardy" was as he explained fish that are less sensitive to ammonia. For example mold is harmful in large quantities or in any amount for an extended period of time to all people but certain people (like myself) can't be within 5 feet of any quantity with out immedietly feeling the effects while my husband could be sitting in it and not know. Fish are like that with ammonia and certain fish are less tolerant (such as a betta) and for certain others it would take more ammonia before it starts hurting them as per the information given to me from an aquarium vet. The price can sometimes be an indicator of this as the more delicate and harder to keep fish will be pricier then easier to keep and breed fish.
Hardy can also mean how tolarant they are of water hardness and alkalinity. 

So i'm pretty sure i'm going to try 3 cory cats and 4 cherry barbs along with 2 African dwarf frogs in the tank and add my betta


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

I think barbs are very nippy fish, not 100% sure though. You originally posted about White Clouds-those are peaceful community fish and will probably get along with your betta. Mostly it depends on your betta's personality, though. Cory cats and ADFs are also good tank mates. 

Cycling with fish can be done. You just need to keep up with measuring the ammonia levels and the water changes. But it's okay if you can't do it. 

Along with adding your betta's water to the bigger tank, I suggest dropping a bit of fish food in there, as well. It's easy to do, and it's a method of building up ammonia to help your tank cycle.


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