# Holes and fungus on betta's fins - please help



## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Hi everyone,

My daughter's betta has been having fin problems for about 8 weeks now, the latest of which is a hole in his caudal fin and white spots on his pectoral fins. Yesterday I noticed that there's now a chunk missing from in his left pectoral fin! I don't know what to do - this keeps getting worse.

I was at Petsmart the other day and the employee suggested using Tetracycline or Erythomicin (sp?). I have not found the employees there to be very knowledgable, though, and am wary. 

Any suggestions as to how I can help poor Fin? Any advice is appreciated! 

More details below. Photo here.


- 5 gallon cycled, heated tank. Originally kept at 78 degrees; now 80 degrees since hole started. 

- Started with Top Fin power filter. Switched 1 month ago to Aquaclear/Fluval 20 (set to low).

- No air stone, just the above filter.

- Tank has 1 betta, gravel, 1 plant (think it's anubias), 1 moss ball, 2 ornaments.

- 2 pellets, 2x a day. 

- I change out 1-2 gallons 5-7 days a week. I do small frequent changes because there's an oily film atop the water. Also, I have trouble telling the colors on the ammonia water test. It always looks between 0 and .25 to me.

- What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime.

- Water Parameters are good, except for PH which is always 7.6. Should I lower this?? 
Ammonia: 0 to .25 (probably 0, I'm just paranoid it's creeping up to .25)
Nitrite:0. 
Nitrate:10. 
Hardness: don't know
Alkalinity: don't know

How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Pinpoint hole in dorsal fin. Getting larger. White spots on pectoral fins.

How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Maybe some fin clamping. No longer makes bubble nests. Eats and swims fine.

When did you start noticing the symptoms? 8 weeks ago.

Have you started treating your fish? 5 days of aquarium salt and 100% water changes. Did this 2x, a couple weeks apart. Not sure if it helped. Never been able to make the spots on the pectoral fins go away.

Does your fish have any history of being ill? We got Fin from Petsmart in mid-March. The fin problems started a month later, immediately after I changed out his carbon filter for the first time. 

Not sure what his history was with Petsmart, or how old he was when we got him. 

Thanks for reading all of this!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No, no, no keep your pH where it's at. That's always a big thing, better to keep a stable pH level then try to get an ideal one that swings over time.

Also if you're using Prime it should detoxify ammonia for 48 hours while the cycle takes care of the ammonia. If your tank is truly cycled then ammonia will be 0 unless something causes a Mini-cycle or the tank isn't fully cycled is all. Check your tap to see if you've got ammonia there, but as I said Prime converts it to ammonium for 48 hours.

What concentration of Aquarium salt where you using? And are the white dots raised or do they look maybe part of the coloring? I'll need some pictures to really tell though.

As far as the holes, does your filter have a baffle? Even if the flow is low, it can still blow them around and cause holes in their fins if they get stuck on the intake. For the intake I use some pantyhose and rubberband it on, when I siphon out water I move the siphon over the intake so it can get any debris stuck on the pantyhose off so it doesn't clog.

As for a baffle there are two types that you can use, I use the water bottle one here pictured: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30139 and here is what mine look like, I don't put them in the filter but rather tape them to the outside. I don't really care about looks so it's up to you: http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/lilnaugrim2010/library/Betta Filter Baffle

And here's the sponge baffle, not a step-by-step but if you read the comments it explains how to do it: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=56100

So fins have holes, pectoral has white spots and is there a white fungusy patch anywhere, is it fuzzy or smooth looking?


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Hi lilnaugrim! Thank you for the quick reply.

I have a water bottle baffle on the filter, but after reading the link above am going to change to a sponge. The cut bottle is too sharp, I think.

I used 1tsp of salt per gallon of aquarium water, per the instructions on the box. (I have a 5.5 gallon tank)

The white spots on the pectoral fins are raised but I woudn't say they're fuzzy. A couple of times the spots have looked red or pink. Sometimes they look white. Some days there are more spots than others. 

It's hard to get a pic of the spots, but there is a photo here: 

http://miscthings9000.blogspot.com/


If you scroll down to the May 2 entry, there are pix of some raised white spots that had formed on Fin's back tail awhile ago. Those went away after I first added aquarium salt to the water.

Can't get rid of the pectoral fin spots, though!

Just thought of this: could it be time to change the anubias plant or the moss ball? They're both 3 mos old now. Neither look like they're dying but I'm a novice at aquarium plants and don't know what to look for.

Should I try adding medicine to the water at this point?

Thanks again!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, I think you should do another round of AQ salt to see if it can help. Do it for another 7 days and if you can raise the temp, can you get it up to about 85 incase of Ich? It will help boost his system too.

The spots on his tail actually look like cysts to me and then the ones on his pecs, are they on the fin of the pec or on the body but just close to the pec? Hard to see.

Make sure you dissolve the salt before adding it in and do a daily 100% or close to it water change during the salt treatment to get rid of any parasitic creature on him.

And no the plants are fine  But don't treat him in his tank if you can or take the plants out, AQ salt will kill them. I have plants that are a year old and they're still growing! You only take them out if they are dying, however they can "melt" which in get really dark green and literally look like they are melting, that's just them acclimating to the water when they're first put in or changed tanks and they'll grow back.

Also make sure the Anubias's rhizome is above the substrate. The Rhizome is the green part where the leaves come out on top and the roots come from it on bottom, almost known as the crown. The roots can be buried, just not the rhizome is all. And then turn your moss ball every now and then so it doesn't get brown on one side  You can also give it a swish in old tank water that you just took out from a water change, so that you clear the debris off of it


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Thanks, lilnaugrim! I did a 100% w/c today and added dissolved salt to Fin's tank. Also switched to a sponge baffle. 

I did try increasing the heat to 85 the very first time I added salt to the tank but a white, stringy fungus started forming on Fin's chin area. I'll keep a close eye on it this time. 

The white spots are on the pectoral fins themselves... it's so frustrating that they won't go away. Also, the hole on his caudal tail seems to have gotten even bigger today. I hope the salt helps!

Good info about the plants and the rhimzome. I removed the plants for now and Fin seems a bit puzzled that his hiding place is gone.

He also gets really stressed when I take him out for water changes. Could I do 50% water changes for the 7 days or would that be ineffective?

Thanks again!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah it's not a fungus, it's actually the salt is irritating his slime coat so he's overproducing and shedding it but it's perfectly fine and normal ^_^

The salt won't help heal the fin unless it's got some rot on it, to heal the fin nice clean water will certainly be the start. But also use some Stress Coat water conditioner if you can get it, that has aloe in it and just like it heals a sunburn on us, it heals up the Betta's fins over time.

And are you using a clear cup or a solid colored cup? Any red solo cups around? Solid colored cups help reduce stress because they can't see so they don't get as stressed but if you must leave him in there, do an 80% change instead. Basically give him enough water to swim in a little bit and keep him wet but take out the vast majority of it or you're not going to get rid of the parasites that the salt helped to knock off and then they can reinfect him


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Ah, given that information I'll do the 100% water changes. I'll get a solid colored cup for that.

Should I use Stress Coat water conditioner instead of the Seachem Prime for the time being?

Thanks so much for the suggestions! Will report back.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can use the Stress Coat to help heal the fins, certainly! If you have to use Prime because of ammonia in your tap, you can use both but if you don't, then just use Stress Coat :-D


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

*Hole and fungus on betta's fins: UPDATE*

Hi everyone, especially lilnaugrim!

So this is day 7 of the salt/heat/daily 100% w/c for my betta, Fin.

5 tsp salt per gallon of water (5.5 gal tank). Heat was about 83-84 for the first few days while I adjusted the thermometer; the past few days it's been 85-86.

The white spots on his pectoral fins have varied. They did get noticeably smaller on some days, but they never went away, and on some days they were the same as before I started the salt again.

This morning I noticed a whitish string and a white spot hanging from his right pectoral fin and thought maybe it was extra slime coat. But I just got home from work and now Fin isn't using his right pectoral fin at all!! I actually thought it had fallen off b/c I couldn't see it! :-(

He did use the fin a couple of times and it looks like a big part is missing but again, it's hard to see.

What could be causing this?? I don't know what to do next.

Also, the hole in his back tail is still the same --maybe a bit bigger.

Any help is appreciated - thank you so much!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi there!

So was he just clamping his pec then? Or was it just gone???

I'm wondering if it was the white spot that sort of just fell of his pectoral...I'm not entirely sure though. I know there is a disease that makes them continually grow cauliflower like cysts, inside and outside. *Lymphocystis* Look at the first section on this link: http://eekers.paper-tigers.org/fishnthings/just_diseases.html

I think you can stop using the AQ salt now, what you can do is over the course of a few days just do a 25% water change instead of 100% and when you replace the water, just use fresh water so you remove the salt slowly.

Keep the temp up for another week just to be certain that it isn't Ich or anything. It will also help keep his metabolism running faster which will help, in that time do twice weekly water changes of 50% so that you can use a double dose of Stress Coat on him so that he can heal up the hole in his tail.

Can I get a updated picture/s of him?


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Thanks for the fast reply!

I don't think he has lymphocystitis (sp?) but am not sure. No white spots on his body, at least not yet.

I've been trying to get a new pic -- Fin saw the camera, though, and got the stress stripes. In the meantime, I came across this thread which is similar to my case. There's a photo at the top of the thread; Fin has spots that look just like this, just more of them. Maybe 4 per fin.

His pectoral fin is still there, but looks a fraction of the size it did this morning. He is clamping it to his side. Poor guy.

So don't do the 100% water change today, correct? I'll slowly phase out the salt and keep the temp at 85 for the next week, per your instructions.

At this point, would it do any good to try any medication? I've read about a few but am confused as to what might work.

Thanks so much!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

They don't have to just be on the body, they can also be in fins. But they generally get big after a while.

Looked at the thread. Also if you keep the camera out while you feed him, he'll get used to it and eventually like the camera because it's a sign of food 

And yes no 100%, just slowly phase it out because if AQ salt didn't help it by now, it's not going to unfortunately.

Since I don't exactly what we're dealing with here, I'm going to PM a few people to see if we can get some sort of answers for you, in the mean time just sit time and hopefully we can sort this out soon!!!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

+1 to everything lilnaugrim has said.

Look closely at his spots. Do they look like the picture below? This fish has Lymphocystis:










Lymphocystis causes cauliflower-like and/or pimple-like growths. It's caused by a virus, and is one of the most common viral aquatic diseases. It's usually self-limiting, meaning that the fish's immune system can fight it off within several weeks or months. In other fish, it may be a chronic condition, meaning it persists over time.

Feed a quality diet, reduce stress, keep the water clean and warm. This will help the fish's immune system to remain strong, and hopefully, allow the fish to fight it off.

However, in the pictures you posted, his fins looked pretty clamped. Does he still look like this? Also, the holes in the fins could be signs of something else, such as a secondary infection. 

Some info about Lymphocystis can be found in these articles: 
Lymphocystis Disease in Fish
Lymphocystis Disease


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Lilnaugrim and LittleBlueFishlets - hello! Thank you so much for taking the time to help!

I must've taken 30 pictures yesterday and none turned out (but I am trying the camera-with-the-food trick!) For now, I've resorted to doing bad sketches which I've posted here.

Hm, the spots do look like the photo above. So far Fin has had spots on his fins, not the body (yet). 

His fins do look clamped, but if we're in the room he'll swim around eagerly and display them.

Do Hikari pellets constitute a quality diet? (2 pellets, 2x a day) Once a week we feed him frozen brine shrimp, and on one day he fasts.

Also, I'm wondering if we have ammonia in our tap water. I have trouble telling the difference between 0 and .25 ammonia with the API kit, so I usually test the tank water and some new water from the tap. They always look the same (between 0 and .25).

Would ammonia poisoning cause the white spots and disappearing fins?

Off to read up about lymphocystis now.

Thank you again for all the great advice!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Since the spots are in a line on his pec I'm thinking it's definitely a mild case of lymphocystis which isn't too bad at least. Those are actually super cute sketches ^_^

What are the first three ingredients of your Hikari pellets? If it's the good formula then yes you can continue, otherwise if you find a filler in the first three (wheat, corns and other soybean products) then it's not as great. Omega One has whole salmon, halibut, and shrimp for the first three, so no fillers, that's great! My Betta NLS formula reads: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, so the third one is a filler which isn't very good. But I still feed it due to having garlic in the formula as well which is aids in warding off internal parasites.

If you give me a picture of the test with the colors next to it, I will probably be able to tell what color it is as long as you don't have any funky setting on your camera to inhance the colors or anything. Being and Art Major helps with that :-D

How old is he? Age has a lot to do with how much you can feed your boy. The younger Betta's need more food to grow and then elderly Betta's need much less as their systems aren't up to par. So if he's middle aged I feel that you can feed him more like 3-4 pellets in one feeding to keep his system working well. The smaller pellets like NLS, you can feed up to 8 in a day no problem. I do my feedings all at once, not split so my younger bettas get 6-8 normally, sometimes up to 9 if I feed they're looking really skinny and then the two elderly ones get 2-3 once a day as they cannot digest it as well.


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Well, it's a relief to finally know what this is. Thank you so much.

The first 3 ingredients to Fin's pellets are fish meal, wheat flour and soybean meal. Lots of filler sooo... time for new food! Are these the ones you mentioned?

Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets and NLS small fish formula. 

If yes, I'll use both of these (unless it's better to stick just to one).

We got Fin from Petsmart in mid-March, but I have no idea how old he is. He doesn't seem to have grown any since we've had him, that's about all the info I have on his age.

Tomorrow I'll test for ammonia and post a pic of the results...

Thanks again for all your help -- I don't know what I would've done without this forum!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yep! Although the Small Fish formula does sink, I know it floats for a bit but it will sink quicker than floating pellets. Here's the one you want to look for: http://www.amazon.com/New-Life-Spec...=8-1&keywords=new+life+spectrum+betta+formula but if you can't find it then the small fish formula will work just fine! It's basically the same formula.

You can totally use both! It's like, would you rather eat broccoli at every meal or would you like broccoli for lunch and dinner and then maybe have some cereal and milk for some breakfast? Switching up foods is great for them and adds variety to their life! They can get bored with the same meal over and over as well just like us, so feeding two different things is great!

I use NLS for the bulk of their diet and then Omega One on Thursday's and Saturday's usually, it changes from week to week but that's usually what it is. And then as a treat on Sunday before I leave they do get one or two Freeze-dried BW's, I'm working on getting Frozen ones but it's hard to get around here, I think my LFS just got some in so we'll see!!!

Fin is probably around 6-12 months, somewhere in that general range. I don't think he's over a year yet so that's good  you can feed him my "young" fish feeding amount lol


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Got the new fish food, both kinds! Had to go with the Omega flakes, though, since the store was out of the pellets. 

Today is Fin's fasting day but he's been acting starved. Should I go ahead and feed him every day until this virus (hopefully) clears up?

Just ran an ammonia test on the water. Photos here. To me, this looks yellowish green, somewhere between 0 and .25 but maybe I'm just color blind!

Also, The hole in Fin's caudal tail seems to be getting larger. LittleBlueFishlets mentioned it might be a secondary infection - what does that mean, and is there anything I can do? How long does a hole take to heal?

I hope this isn't too many questions -- thanks so much for following this thread for so long!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, continue to feed him every day so that he remains strong, only fast him if he seems to be super bloated but if you feed him properly each day that shouldn't happen ^_^

Yeah the tests look like they are about .15 or something really low. Is one from tank and one from tap?

No worries, you're not bothering us and you're not asking too many questions! Better to know more than know nothing at all! So feel free to ask away :-D 

I'm not entirely sure exactly what she had in mind when she was saying secondary infection. All I can think of is fin rot, I know sometimes fin rot can just attack, especially when the fishes immune system is down or lower than normal. It can create holes in their fins and eventually infect it for real and start deteriorating it.

Can you get more pictures to compare?

So I think you should just continue to change most if not all of his water every other day, this shouldn't stress him out too much so he'll stay strong but you do need to clean the water out to get rid of any unnecessary particles and disease that might be floating around. Continue to use the Stress Coat and keep him warm. And keep the temp from fluctuating is all I think you can do for now as well as the good diet.

Just careful with the flakes it all, they can get messy ^_^ so just feed like a tiny pinch at a time, wait for him to gobble them all up and then put in a little bit more and do that for about 30 seconds and he should be filled right up! You can choose if you want to do every other day as far as feedings, so NLS one day and Omega the next or do the majority of Omega and some NLS every so often or visa versa. Up to you! Either way is all good since he's getting much more nutrition than before so either one is really going to help him out a lot! :-D


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Good morning!

Re: the ammonia photos posted yesterday - yes, one tube was from the tank and one from the tap. So I guess ammonia is present in my tap water. I'm confused as to why the Prime isn't getting rid of it, though.

I'll get a pic of the hole in his caudal fin and post it later today...

Fin still does clamp his fins quite a bit, but seems happier (from what I can tell) after larger water changes. Is it too stressful if I do 100% w/c's every day for, say, the next couple of weeks? Or until this hopefully clears up.

Was also reading about Indian Almond leaves and want to give this a try. Have you ever tried these? From what I gather, there doesn't seem to be a downside.

More later -- and thank you!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

IAL has minor antibacteria properties, same as driftwood, and it stains his tank a tea color which actually does usually make them calmer so it's definitely worth a shot. I'm not sure if you have to replace the leaf each time you do a water change though, you might want to look into that since I've never actually used one ^_^

Okay if that's with Prime and all, then that's reading as zero. It is possible that your test is reading the ammonium instead of straight ammonia, so just count those tubes as 0, no ammonia.

If you want to do a full water change everyday that's fine, you can do it and see how reacts. If he seems to really like the clean water then keep doing it! If he get's stressed out, do it every other day and see how that works. I also find that putting them in a solid colored cup helps to calm them down since he can't see, as opposed to clear cups.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would say change the leaves when you do a water change , or at least check it with every water change and make sure it not rotten And i would just rinse it before you put IAL in the tank.


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

So much for my bright idea, changing 100% of the water every day. Today's w/c stressed Fin out (he seemed fine with the last few, though). I'll play around with the amounts I change, and how often. 

Posted updated pix of the hole in his caudal fin here.

Thanks to you both for the reply about Indian Almond Leaves. I am so intrigued by these and ordered some today. Look forward to using them. 

Fin seems to like his new food! I ended up ordering some Omega One pellets online and will alternate those with the NLS.

Can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's help with this thread, especially lilnaugrim!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You are most welcome and I'm just so happy that I could help you out!!! I am super glad that we figured out what his dots were and all that jazz too!

As far as his hole, I was comparing pictures and it actually doesn't look too much bigger at all, almost the same size in fact which is good!! I figure the only thing you can do for that right now is just keep his water clean and warm and of course less stressed if you can ^_^

Something else to do to keep him not as stressed is, if he's got a light on his tank just keep it off for most of the day, the darkness calms Betta's. If he doesn't have a light and it's just ambient light then you can wrap a towel around most of the tank and just leave a little opening for your viewing pleasure if you like, but that might help him as well!

Does he have a filter in there? Sorry, can't remember but I saw one in one of the older pictures, just wondering if he could have gotten his pec stuck in there and with the bumps it just snagged on the filter intake and just ripped off, that could be a possibility if he actually has one 

But yes IAL is going to make him very happy as well ^_^ I actually really like the tea stain color so I've got driftwood in most of my tanks and it's workin' out well! Now I just need to find some small pieces for the small tanks :/ that's going to be hard! lol

Anywho! I hope your day is fantastic! ;-)


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## mimi9000 (May 2, 2013)

Good morning! 

Fin does have a filter -- I'll cover the intake valve with pantyhose. Securing it with rubber bands is okay, though? I'm always paranoid about things degrading and leaching chemicals into the water. 

Also, it is okay to keep his water at 85 degrees long-term, or is it better to lower it to 82?

I think that's it for the questions. Fin looks good today and I'm sure he's happy we're feeding him more pellets (and better food, too!)

Have a great day + thanks so much!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup you can use rubber bands no problem, if there was an issue my babies would certainly not be alive and growing like the weeds they are haha.

I wouldn't keep it up long term but you can lower it over a whole week though if you like, a degree every other day or so. Higher temps actually speed up their systems and they burn through more food like we would do as well. So if kept like this for a very long time he will eventually exhaust himself resulting in a shorter life.

Woohoo! Glad to hear he's happily eating! He's certainly got to keep his strength up ^_^


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