# First Time Breeding



## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

So I Want To Breed Bettas And Want To Breed Something That People Want Any Ideas? Heres Mine: Imbellis, Purple Dragon- And Where To Get a Healthy, Happy Pair, Thanks!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

What do you already know about breeding? 

I would try splendens before you move on to the more sensitive wilds (although I believe that imbellis is a good first wild. Talk to setsuna, darth, or littlebettafish about wilds.). What exactly do you mean by "purple dragon"? Generally, people want nicely colored bettas that are as near show quality as possible. Halfmoon and halfmoon plakat are among the most popular. To get this, you have to start with a nice pair. Aquabid.com is a great place to get breeding pairs but be careful who you buy through. Lots of selection to.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Alright, I Think I Will Stick To Splendens, But I Want To Create A Nice Fish! I Will Probably Go For HMPK! Check Out bluemoonbetta.wordpress.com I Have My Supplies That I Will Get Listed There! Thinking Of Buying From: http://www.bettaakapes.com/.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm going to post the link for easier access- http://bluemoonbetta.wordpress.com/

So you have all of that stuff? You need at way more then 12 jars. Think 100+. You also need a heater for every tank that has a betta or betta fry in it, no exceptions. Nice hmpk aren't hard to find on aquabid.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Dont Have That Stuff Yet...Getting It Soon...What Are Rare Bettas That Are Not To Hard To Breed?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Bettas types are all the same difficulty when it comes to breeding, but some individuals are more willing then others. There's really no such thing as a "rare" type of splenden, but I don't really know what you mean.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

If you are thinking of breeding to make money on something 'rare' think again. You will easily put in two times the money you will ever make back from selling spawn. Once you get to be a great breeder you will even be lucky to break even.

If your intentions are not to profit from this then simply breed what you like. What colors and tail types are your favorite?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

^ agree.. depends on what your breeding goal is. But you have to start somewhere.. there are still things missing from your list, lots and lots of things - but it's a start. No money to gain breeding these fish - it's a hobby people do out of love for the species. Only way to be business about it is to set up a farm somewhere in Asia and mass produce.  Otherwise, as mentioned, breed what you like - people will buy it as long as they are healthy.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Alright Well I Like Marble Dragons, And Still Need Some Breeding Advice; Myates I See You Have Two Spawns Going, Any Advice?


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Marble dragons are great, I am working on a line of them myself. Going for a mustardgas type pair and later a tricolored red, white, and blue pair.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

+1 to all the advice given.
Breed for what you like not for what youll think will make money. 
Get a nice pair with good form and finnage and fatten them up for a few weeks. Get some tanks/tubs. 
Instead of jars I use soda bottles with small holes in them and place them inside heated plastic tubs. Much cheaper and also easier to heat all the males.
Get microworms and bbs then you should be ready to go :-D


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Can Anyone Give Me A List Of Supplies And Stuff Needed?


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## wish4coner (Mar 22, 2013)

I pamper my bettas so, I did a lot of research before buying my first pair--however, the info out there is staggering; it is very confusing and, what one says is right, another says is wrong. Thus, I joined a board so I could get concise and consistent answers. They have been great!
I had all my supplies ready, for my breeding. I bought a 10 gallon grow out for my first spawn (first one is usually small, according to what I read). I also had a 29 gallon eyed, in the event I did overly well. I bought a hang-on double sponge filter for when they grow big enough to move. I bought plastic tubs, looked up the "Thai" way of doing things, and found success in doing it like that. 
I also bought nice glass containers at Walmart, for my males, that are 2-3 gallons, but easily placed near each other--I put paper in between the males so they don't flare too much.
My females are in sororities. I also learned that, if you buy a show betta male, make sure you get the same type of female. Good genetics is important--I made a mistake and now have several I probably will never use to spawn. I found 2 breeders on ebay, with 100% feedback and, one actually contacted me, and sold me the female at a very good price. Once I had her, I saw the difference in the ones that I purchased from "other" breeders. She is gorgeous.
Right now, I have my air filters, gages, etc. I just need to buy the sponge filters. I have my first fry now, doing well--but will need a good sponge filter so, I will order off of ebay as, our stores here do not carry them.
My first spawn was about 15-20. I did egg yolk and bbs first..but now switched to microworms. 
This is just to show you the expense, and I am not even a seasoned breeder yet. I pamper them with live foods (flightless fruit flies), as well as Hakari frozen foods--mosquito larvae and bloodworms, which is all they want to eat. I do not use nets--I hand scoop them out, carefully. I use a turkey baster, daily to remove waste, and added ghost shrimp and snails to help with the clean up. I also have moss balls and will be ordering some more live plants.
So far, the expense is about 450.00 but, many of the things I purchased will save me from purchasing more--like my biological filters, that I got on sale and will be used for more grow out tanks. 
One thing I will say is that, had I not joined this board, I would have spent thousands and, probably not had a successful spawn either. They are very helpful here.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks! How Many Bettas Did You Get In The First Spawn? Oh... And Check Out The Site In my Signature I Will Post Spawn Logs There When I Get Started (1-2 Months)


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## wish4coner (Mar 22, 2013)

BlueMoonBetta said:


> Thanks! How Many Bettas Did You Get In The First Spawn? Oh... And Check Out The Site In my Signature I Will Post Spawn Logs There When I Get Started (1-2 Months)


As far as I can tell...15-20 that made it. I can't really tell for sure as, they move quickly and, they are so tiny--as well as some liking the moss balls and sponge filter so, unless you move them, you don't see it. I also have a small, leafy plant in there and some like to stay on the leaves.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

How Do I Cull?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You don't even have to cull. I don't and I think it is unneccessary and cruel unless they are deformed or ill to the point of making their lives horrible. You use clove oil or the freeze shock method to cull.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Ok, I Will Only Cull If They Are Deformed....Any Tips On Selling Pet Store Quaility Bettas?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Another way to cull is feed to a big fish.
Sell pet store quality way cheaper than the pet stores are selling them, otherwise people will just go to the petstore for their fish. Or maybe just give your fish to the petstores so they can sell the fish for you


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Petstore quality fish....eh give them away for free or give them to a petstore for free...really the only options as some petstores can sell those fish for a $1 each.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

As for the culling issue.. telling someone not to cull unless deformed can lead to trouble.. if the breeder is only wanting to breed one or two spawns at a time due to limited space (such as jar space or grow out space).. and end up with a very large spawn then what are they to do? How will they keep 200, 300+ jars warm? Are they going to be able to physically clean those jars out every day/other day? What happens when the grow out tanks get too full..? How are they going to find homes for hundreds of fish? Especially if the fish are undesirable due to bad finnage, etc? 

You simply can't tell someone not to cull unless they are deformed... I have yet had a deformed fish.. but if I kept all 550 fry from that ONE spawn then I wouldn't be able to breed for months and months while I try to find homes for all of them. 
Yes, if you get lucky you can find a distributor willing to house and sell your fish for a share (luckily I have one that has been doing it for a couple decades about a 40 minute drive from me).. or they may be able to find a fish store willing to take some for free from them.. but any good breeder will cull fish they can not sell/get rid of. Any good breeder will cull if it will improve the health and growth of some of the spawn, etc. 

You can't say no to culling because a spawn is too large, nor because you can't find them a home. Heck, one of my 2 spawns I have going that hatched a week ago looks to be a few hundred fry... you bet I will be culling that down because I know from experience of having large spawns you simply can't keep that many if you don't have a big room with an elaborate set up. I have yet to ever meet a breeder who does not cull for many reasons other than deformities. You claim you don't Matt.. but I bet that you do, just don't say anything.. or you don't actively breed multiple spawns or have multiples going at once. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying to not cull. Sometimes it HAS to be done. If I didn't cull that last large one, then all the babies would have been worse off.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

^ +100 

you cant escape culling if you breed, its a critical part. You need to be picky with who gets to use up the precious space and food resources


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

First off, I never actually said NOT to cull. I said that you don't have to and that I don't. Why you would like to challenge me and question what I do I can only wonder. No, I am not a big breeder. I have a couple of spawns at a time. I am yet to have an absolutely massive spawn. If I ever get a 500+ spawn, I will remove eggs. Yes, that is technically culling, but it is a lot less cruel then culling already conscious beings. Here are a couple links to respectable breeders that share my stance on culling-
https://sites.google.com/site/detroitgiantbettas/home
http://www.bettatalk.com/
I respect your opinion and would appreciate it if you would respect mine.

I also doubt that the op wants this thread to become a debate about culling and frankly I am sick of this never ending debate. Every person can and has every right to have different beliefs on culling. Please, let's stop bickering about this


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Ok, What Should I Cull For, Bad Finnage, Ect, Etc?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You are going to get a bunch of different options on this to. It depends on your beliefs. We can't really dictate what you should cull or not for you.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I think Myates only responded because every single thread someone mentions culling you respond like this:



> I think it is unneccessary and cruel.


This is purely your opinion, much the same as Myates opinion is her (I think Myates is female) own. 

In _most_ cases first time breeders do not even successfully rear enough fry to have to consider culling. However, it is always important to have information from both perspectives.

OP, you are probably not going to be able to sell your bettas for much if they are of pet store, or less than pet store quality. I would personally look at the best quality pair you could afford, with decent form and good colouring and not try to breed anything less.

It takes the same amount of time, energy and money to rear a whole lot of poor quality fish as it does to raise higher quality fish. But at the end you are going to have a lot of an easier time with selling fish from a higher quality spawn than fish that most breeders would have culled out.


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Ok, What About A Betta Barracks?!


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## BlueMoonBetta (Apr 25, 2013)

Oh, And I Will Get My Bettas From A IBC Breeder!


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Blue another great thing is join the IBC, you can get SO much help from there as well as a book showing betta conformation.

As far as culling I can only tell you the things I would cull for myself but it's really all up to you. First thing is deformities, bent spines, swim bladder issues, even stuff like no ventrals or one pectoral larger than the other.

After that quality, spoon heads and hunchbacks, fish with not good topline. I wouldn't really cull fish with too long of tails, even though I am going to be working with a hmpk line because I feel if they still look pretty enough someone will want them as a pet but they will be priced lower than the others for sure. Also not going to cull for color, if the color is not what I want it can still be a pet.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

LBF - correct, I'm a girl 

Matts.. I was responding to this quote,


MattsBettas said:


> You don't even have to cull. I don't and I think it is unneccessary and cruel unless they are deformed


which the poster then went on to take it as to not cull unless deformed. I wanted to make sure the poster was aware that culling is not cruel and is necessary. 
Maybe I could of said it nicer.. but this is me, who can be rather blunt. But I only say what I say to help someone.. not to be mean to anyone. I do apologize that you thought I was attacking you. 

As far as barracks.. do a lot of research.. many use them, but others don't because it has been known to wipe out entire fish rooms if one fish becomes ill. I personally just line the shelves with Flex Watt Heat Tapes + thermostats to keep individual containers warmed. Also use bins filled with water + heater and place the containers in them to help keep them warm. This way water isn't shared with others and less of a chance of mass sickness.
But on the other hand, barracks is a time saver.. pros and cons, all I can say is research them and how to build them and then think it over - it's an opinion on whether or not they are good to have/use, so I really can't give you an answer one way or another.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

You did come of as quite rude and frankly, rather disrespectful. Thank you for your apology. There are many different views on culling, and just because I don't share yours does not make me wrong. I am pretty blunt to so I understand... We both just need to watch how we word things . Many people have now shared their thoughts on culling but in the end it is your choice as the breeder. 

As for barracks... Well, I don't use them. There are definatly a lot of pros and cons. Do a lot of research on it though and there is no reason that they can't be a success.


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