# Betta acting tired?



## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Well a few days ago some users on here helped me diagnose why my betta and catfish were acting so weird. They said it was something to do with me not cycling my tank, but now I'm a little confused.

Whenever I put my new betta in my new 15g tank, he will swim around for a bit (few hours at most) then he will start to act tired and just won't really move. He'll lay almost completely on his side too, floating at the top. It scares me.

But when I put him in a smaller container that's filled with the SAME tank water, a few minutes later he'll be totally fine. Swimming around normally and everything the whole day/night. So what's going on? I don't think the filter could be making him tired because he doesn't go too much on that side.

Some info about 15g tank:
Temp: 78 F bordering on 80 F
Parameters: not sure but i don't see how that can affect him if he's fine in the small container with the exact same water as the big tank
Tankmates: none besides the catfish that I had to remove because my betta was freaking out and dashing around if he got too close (maybe that could be why?)
Hiding Spots: anarchis he likes to go in and an alligator head cave 
Gravel: black sand
Lighting: single LED 4-22W light

In his small container:
Temp: pretty cold
nothing added to his container besides him

Please help!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, being in a small container, like my Ghengis was, then moved to a larger and heated tank is surprising to them. There is more water in height and width.  Most bettas will display this "laziness" or "tiredness" only because they are not used to having to swim as much. Make sure there is a bunch of stuff he can rest on. Usually they get enough stamina/strength to swim around more. Also, as they get older they tend to get more tired.


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> Well, being in a small container, like my Ghengis was, then moved to a larger and heated tank is surprising to them. There is more water in height and width.  Most bettas will display this "laziness" or "tiredness" only because they are not used to having to swim as much. Make sure there is a bunch of stuff he can rest on. Usually they get enough stamina/strength to swim around more. Also, as they get older they tend to get more tired.


Alright, thanks Sena! I'll add him back in and try to get some kind of floating plant soon for him to rest on.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah! just acclimate him. If you can, lower the water, and just raise it gallon by gallon.... then it'll be easier for him as well.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

You are saying he is floating on the top and lying on his side. I am wondering if he has SBD. Is he bloated? Can he swim straight or he swims on his side? Also if you look at him from the top is his scales raised? Is he eating at all?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah I was thinking that. SBD is usually from being overfed, or not on a good diet. i.e. always freeze dried bloodworms vs pellets with occassional bloodworms...


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

BETTACHKALOVE said:


> You are saying he is floating on the top and lying on his side. I am wondering if he has SBD. Is he bloated? Can he swim straight or he swims on his side? Also if you look at him from the top is his scales raised? Is he eating at all?


I added him to the 15g and he's resting in the alligator head cave right now. Yesterday night before removing him he would swim on his side and it seemed like he was stuck to the surface or something. Whenever I first add him to the tank he is fine though and swims normal. And when he's in the small container swims perfectly normal and floats normal. 

Yesterday he ate one dried bloodworm. The first day I got him (3-4 days ago) he gobbled up some of the pellets my boyfriend threw in. He doesn't look bloated and his scales look fine. I try to feed him 1 pellet a day in case he ate too much the first day or is constipated. He gets really interested in them and he'll get really close to them but when he realizes they're not moving won't eat them.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Did you see his poop? I think he might be constipated? He might ate too many pellet when your boyfriend threw them in. But then i think he would be bloated though. Fast him today and see how he is doing. Some people recommending to feed with a pea for constipation. I really never did it but i heard that it helped. Keep eye on him if he will get worse you might use Epsom salt. I know instructions on it. Also let us know if you think he is constipated, then you can try a little pies of the boiled pea. You clean the skin and give him tiny piece (2 pieces) the size of the pellet.

I also don't know how often and how much water do you change. I don't cycle my tanks i just do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes a wk so make sure the water parameters good. I prefer a lot of water changes. Make sure when you change the water it the same temperature +-2* as he already in.

Sorry i am not an expert though , will see what other people think.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

never ever feed a betta peas  That's for goldfish. Bettas are not herbivores - like goldfish, mollies, etc who'll eat just about anything. Just do not feed him for a day. even getting him to flare can make them poop :lol: but feeding the peas can cause worse constipation and severe bloating. it won't pass through the betta's system.

epsom salt on the other hand does work nicely. Dissolve 1 tsp per gallon (do not add all 15 teaspoons at once though) add it. That'll clear him out.

for a 15 gallon just do 30% water change a week. I have a 20, and 2 10's, and that is what I do. best to cycle it... that way less work  and better environment.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I never feed them with a pea...some people say it helps...some people don't recommended .....I think it would be better try to fast today see how he doing . I also think it really better to qt him in small container and do more water changes.See how he is doing. If he will not get better or will get worse (lethargic,still swimming on his side,bloated) do Epsom salt. But it really better to qt him and pre mix the Epsom salt in 1 gall jug for the right dosage. And it will be easier for you to do water changes. You can take a gall from spring water or even from milk. Just rinse it very well with water if it from milk.

Pre mix 1tsp/gall for Epsom salt and let the forum know how he is doing because sometimes depending on the symptoms you might need to increase the dosage. 

Sena Hansler your bettas pretty old so you know about water changes but i don't know i always so afraid that everyone needs more % of the water changes or betta can get sick. Well it probably because i don't cycle. 

I spoke to someone on this forum who also has 7 years old betta . He actually has 2 bettas in 10 gall divided tank and he does 1-50% and 1-100% water changes even for 10 gall. I know it probably not cycled. Is it easier just do that instead of cycling? I had 10 gall before many ears ago and i did everything right (filter,about 30-35% water changes) my betta lived 1 year. Now since i don't cycle all my bettas never even get sick. Sorry if i am writing something stupid but it my experience with cycling was not good at all...Hate to cycle i wish everyone would do 50% and 100% water changes. Or at least 75% water changes....

Sorry it just what i am thinking ...just talking to myself and writing..
Don't get mad at me you obviously know how to change the water . You have 7 years old.
I also work at the doctor office he has tropical fish(don't know what kind) they are so old (10 y old) He has 75 gall and he does about 50% water changes every 2 weeks and his tank has 2 filters.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I forgot to write that with Epsom salt you need to do 100% daily water changes.


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

I checked on him about 5 minutes ago and he was still in the cave. He was laying down on his side. I was scared he might be dead so I wiggled the cave a little. He moved a little, then swam out and immediately went to the surface for air. I'm guessing he was just sleeping? Haha. He swam fine. Now he's at the surface in a corner just sitting there.

I'll fast him today and use your idea to make him flare a little! If that doesn't help I'll try the salt. Is epsom salt the same as aquarium salt? I have aquarium salt.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

No it different. With aquarium salt you can treat different symptoms. Epsom salt you can buy at any pharmacy. Epsom salt treats buoyancy, swim bladder problems,constipations,pop eye,internal parasites...


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## Wolfboy51 (Oct 12, 2011)

For wat they can resOn theres some sort of leaf made by zoo med u can buy it
On amazon. On youtube the betta wipl actually sleep on it.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

If he can swim fine when in a smaller tank- then it's not SBD or any issue that you need to use Epsom Salt, or any medication on. You stated he isn't bloated.. so why the pea method and such were offered.. dunno :dunno:

Some bettas will stress terribly in larger tanks- some do fine with them. 
In the 15g, is it heavily planted or at least medium planted with tall plants? If so.. then it's just the large size he is having issues with, if not then you may want to try that, as they feel secure when there is plenty of places to hide. 

Did you use water conditioner?
What type of catfish? If it's not a cory, but a larger one- those can be very territorial, and will eat anything- literally.

Sounds to me that he is one who does better in smaller tanks- Don't know the size of the smaller tank he is in- but kritter keepers at Petco are good - $8 (approx) for a 1.75 gal, and $10 (approx) for a 2.75 gal one (I buy them online and ship- so unsure about actual store prices). Those have plenty of room to swim in, decorate and yet not too large to stress him out. Also heatable easily.. just a thought if you didn't want to use a smaller bowl (again, sorry, don't know what smaller tank you are using).

Sounded like he was sleeping.. mine will lay partially on their side in their caves when sleeping.. and if he swam to the surface and stayed there just right, then you definitely don't need to be treating him for something- SBD is a constant thing, he will have troubles swimming to the top, staying upright, staying _at_ the top- other then him laying on his side while resting, and overly stressing out in the larger tank which caused him to tip, he has no sign of SBD- treatment not recommended, just do your regular weekly water changes, either buff up the plants in the larger tank to see if that helps, or he is just one of the ones that requires smaller tanks to be comfortable in.
Poor guys.. they are jarred in small jars at the breeders, then placed into small cups- a one gallon is big for them at first as it is.


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

*Update*

He is doing much better today. Isn't laying on his side, isn't "sleeping" so much, and occasionally he'll come watch me while I'm cleaning up or on the computer. He likes to watch my boyfriend play xbox too. :lol:

Still isn't eating, but he does get interested in the food I give. 

Thanks for the response Myates! I have a large leafed plant (not sure what) and an Anarchis I split up. I'm about to add some flagstone (if that stuff's safe. made a thread about it) to stack up into a hiding place. I think you're right. He's probably overwhelmed and he seems curious about everything but shy at the same time. He does like swimming by the heater. Right now he's playing near the little Anarchis forest haha. I plan on adding many more plants once I get the money to get them and fertilizer tabs/liquid. BTW the little tank I had him in wasn't even a half gallon and was just for overnight. I'll probably just use it as a hospital tank for him if he ever needs it.


EDIT
and the catfish is a black bullhead. it's only about 2 inches but someone on here said it will try eating anything it can fit in its mouth so i'm not even gonna risk it. but now i need to figure out what to do with the poor guy. he was my dad's before and was being housed in a horribly dirty, 1.5g tank with one of my former bettas that i now regret giving to my dad and stepmom.  so i don't want to give him back.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Ah.. yeah that is a tiny tank, would be great for a hospital  

Hopefully once you get more plants in there he will become adjusted to it and start to be more open- after a while, even the most skittish of them learn to accept their owners and start to love attention from them. Funny how a fish could have "personality", even if it's just their instincts  It's what helps us fall in love with them.

Black bullheads can be very pretty, love the olive green ones.. they are an opportunistic bottom-feeder, eating fishes, many types of invertebrates, plant matter, and detritus. They only get to be a few pounds- but still that is roughly 10+ inches at least. And whoever mentioned they will eat anything put in their mouth was correct- catfish are literally the bottom feeders of the fish world and anything that can fit, will be swallowed up.

I hope you can figure out what to do with him, as it does sound that going back to your parent's home won't be ideal. Did someone catch it? They are native to the US in most states (namely in the midwest-eastern), southern Canada and Mexico- I wouldn't think a pet store would carry them because they are so common.


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I would follow what Myates wrote - very good advice. Spot on.


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Myates said:


> Black bullheads can be very pretty, love the olive green ones.. they are an opportunistic bottom-feeder, eating fishes, many types of invertebrates, plant matter, and detritus. They only get to be a few pounds- but still that is roughly 10+ inches at least. And whoever mentioned they will eat anything put in their mouth was correct- catfish are literally the bottom feeders of the fish world and anything that can fit, will be swallowed up.
> 
> I hope you can figure out what to do with him, as it does sound that going back to your parent's home won't be ideal. Did someone catch it? They are native to the US in most states (namely in the midwest-eastern), southern Canada and Mexico- I wouldn't think a pet store would carry them because they are so common.


Yeah, that's the other reason I wanted him. ): He's so pretty, but I'm not gonna risk my betta (and future fish!) getting eaten. My dad found him in his yard after it rained. He was in a small puddle and he likely came from the small bayou next to the railroad tracks near my dad's house. I'll probably just bring him back to the wild.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Well sorry but i recommended to watch and if he is not better or get worse then to use Epsom salt. ( page 1) only because tahbi wrote if you read all threads that betta act wbired and just wan't really move,and lay almost completely on his side or floating at the top. Also tahbi wrote that betta gobbled up some of the pellets that boyfriend threw in.... So that is why i told watch if betta pooped and see if betta constipated and than use a pea.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

cajunamy said:


> I would follow what Myates wrote - very good advice. Spot on.


Thanks! I learned from the best! (and that includes you!)



tahbi said:


> Yeah, that's the other reason I wanted him. ): He's so pretty, but I'm not gonna risk my betta (and future fish!) getting eaten. My dad found him in his yard after it rained. He was in a small puddle and he likely came from the small bayou next to the railroad tracks near my dad's house. I'll probably just bring him back to the wild.


I would.. as he came out of who-knows-what water conditions, you don't want to risk him bringing anything into the tank (which I'm sure he already did if he was in with the betta). Have you done any large water changes since you removed the catfish? If not, I would recommend doing a few 50%s once a day for a few days to clean it out without going drastic. Wild caught fish are iffy and can pose a lot of health risks to your other fish. (If you have cleaned it a couple of times, or they weren't actually together, then forgive me!)



BETTACHKALOVE said:


> Well sorry but i recommended to watch and if he is not better or get worse then to use Epsom salt. ( page 1) only because tahbi wrote if you read all threads that betta act wbired and just wan't really move,and lay almost completely on his side or floating at the top. Also tahbi wrote that betta gobbled up some of the pellets that boyfriend threw in.... So that is why i told watch if betta pooped and see if betta constipated and than use a pea.


I am not meaning to jump on you, or anyone.. it was a statement. Yes, I agree he should watch him, but I am saying that unless it is absolute, then one should be wary of treating fish for anything. He had some signs of what could be considered SBD, I will admit- but it's everything else he mentioned that pointed to something else- just the fact that he would swim up and around just fine points to it not being an SBD issue. 
Peas, once again, are great for goldfish who are constipated because of the fiber in them.. but bettas only get plant materials from the stomachs of their live foods they eat- it's just not wise to use a pea under any circumstance. It's doable, yes.. and some people believe it works (my opinion is that it wasn't the pea that worked, just that the betta went to the bathroom on it's own when it needed, since they don't go "regular" like other fish. A bloated belly is one of a long list of signs of constipation, and unless there are other signs of it, all that is needed is time for the fish to just do it's own thing.)
Frozen daphnia is what you would want to recommend for constipation. 

Either way- keep us updated on how he is doing and let us know if things change, or get worse. Good luck!


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Myates said:


> I would.. as he came out of who-knows-what water conditions, you don't want to risk him bringing anything into the tank (which I'm sure he already did if he was in with the betta). Have you done any large water changes since you removed the catfish? If not, I would recommend doing a few 50%s once a day for a few days to clean it out without going drastic. Wild caught fish are iffy and can pose a lot of health risks to your other fish. (If you have cleaned it a couple of times, or they weren't actually together, then forgive me!)
> 
> Either way- keep us updated on how he is doing and let us know if things change, or get worse. Good luck!


I did a 50% water change a few days ago and planned on doing another today. I was only going to do a small one today until I read what you said so thanks!  I'll keep everyone updated on how he is!


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

How is your betta doing?


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

BETTACHKALOVE said:


> How is your betta doing?


He's doing good  but he isn't eating at all so i'm getting worried


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Has anything changed in his tank? Did you change the tank around, new tank? How long hasn't he been eating?


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Myates said:


> Has anything changed in his tank? Did you change the tank around, new tank? How long hasn't he been eating?


We added some rocks about a week ago but he's been fine and even hides in the cave we made out of them. I don't think he likes the betta food. I just fed him a mosquito larvae and he ate it. I try to feed him every day twice a day but he looks at it then passes it by.

How many mosquito larvae can I feed him? I really don't want to because of the diseases I heard they carry but right now I don't think I have a choice. He hasn't been adding for like two weeks.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Depending on your area, pesticides and herbicides...Etc... And considering he's been feeding off of wild foods by the sounds of it you should be okay. If anything get him live foods from a store? If you can find any. Here I can feed mosquitos (small) to my males without them dying.


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks Sena. I never see any pesticides being sprayed here. I'll keep feeding him the larvae and also try to feed him the pellets too. Hopefully he'll take to them soon.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

One trick some use is to soak the pellets in garlic juice? Most bettas cannot resist that


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## tahbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Oh great idea if my gramma has garlic juice I'll try that. If not could I wet the pellet and put garlic powder on it instead? Would that be okay? I know we have garlic powder.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

I think garlic juice also good because it works as a preventative from parasites which can be in the live food. 
Also you can feed him with cooked shrimp. Just boil it and give him a few little pieces (size of a pellet) . One thing I don’t like feeding with shrimp that it don’t float it go right away to the bottom, but my bettas usually grab it from my finger or if it sink to the bottom then they usually couch it . I feed them with shrimp the day when I do complete water changes. I don’t like any food on the bottom of the tank. I think your betta will eat it.

I usually feed my bettas 2-3 times a day. But don't overfeed them though. I am trying to fast them once a wk.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Bettachkalove has good advice  and yes feed 2-3 times and you can fast a day of the week for digestive reasons. Change of what he is used to eating could cause some consipation problems, so a day of the week of fasting should be ok.


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