# Endlers?



## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

Now I've posted a few times about different potential tank mates, but I keep changing my mind. q=

I'm cycling my tank now and I'm starting to see more and more plant growth. My tank is 20G with 2 Mystery Snails, 1 Zebra Nerite, and a few ghost shrimp with my small male betta. 

I had originally wanted Mollies, but it turns out they get pretty darn big...so my top choice was 9 neon tetras, until I saw endlers! They are so cute!

Does anybody have experience keeping endlers with their males? Are they too colorful?

Thanks!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I've got guppies with my female, pretty much the same thing lol. Endlers without large tails would be better so they can get away from your Betta quickly. They would be fine if you have a heavier tailed Betta like a HM or a HMDT, if you have a PK then it might not be such a good idea unless you know he's harmless and won't try to kill them. It's pretty much luck of the draw though, some Betta's don't mind Endlers/Guppies or other small fish while some of them REALLY mind them and will kill them like my Bettas >.<


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## G26okie (Jan 16, 2014)

Also, look into harlequin rasboras, they are another small fish but don't breed as easily as endlers etc, so your tank won't be over run. When i held a picture of an endler up to my betta, he immediately started flaring at it.


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

G26okie said:


> Also, look into harlequin rasboras, they are another small fish but don't breed as easily as endlers etc, so your tank won't be over run. When i held a picture of an endler up to my betta, he immediately started flaring at it.


Did you print out the picture? I pulled one up on my phone and put it up to the glass and he just kinda pouted at me...

I've looked at most of the "recommended" tankmates and one reason I like endlers is that their preferred tank parameters seem to fit mine much more closely than other fish. Plus they don't look much more colored than neon tetras.

For example, the rasboras and tetras prefer lower pH and slightly lower temperature than I hold. (I'm at like 7.4-7.6pH and 78F)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The color really shouldn't be much an issue for the Bettas. I find that my girl likes to munch on their tails more than anything, regardless of color; just the longer finned guppies that she goes for. She's currently in time out for chomping off the entire tail of my Snakeskin boy >.>

You won't know until you try it, each Betta has their own personality.


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> You won't know until you try it, each Betta has their own personality.


That's what I'm afraid of ]= I don't want any of them to get hurt.

I will definitely go for shorter tails though...that's why I'm thinking pure endlers as opposed to fancy guppy half-breeds.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, pure Endlers should be faster but then you also run into the issues that they are smaller and easier to bite :-/ so either way, it all comes down to how your Betta will react. My advice is to have loooots of plants either real or fake so that the Endlers can hide if they need to and to make it harder for your Betta to snack on them if he is so inclined to do so.


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah, pure Endlers should be faster but then you also run into the issues that they are smaller and easier to bite :-/ so either way, it all comes down to how your Betta will react. My advice is to have loooots of plants either real or fake so that the Endlers can hide if they need to and to make it harder for your Betta to snack on them if he is so inclined to do so.


Definitely the plan.... I've got good plant growth right now and I'm not planning on putting the endlers in there until the tank is cycled (probably a month away since I used SafeStart), so the plants should really fill in. 

Plus I'm going to make a bunch of tubes for hiding in. I'm thinking of maybe making a tiny one that only endlers can fit in, but I'm worried Sly will get himself stuck...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Tetra SafeStart actually cycles in just a little less than 2 weeks! Which is why we use that fantastic product! That particular "Bacteria in a Bottle" is the only one which contains the bacteria you actually need, other cycling products just help the cycle along where this one actually kick-starts it!

Sounds like you've got a great plan! I think your Endlers will be just fine in the tank ^_^ Some of my favorite Endlers which aren't pure but still super cute are Yellow Jacket Endlers!


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Tetra SafeStart actually cycles in just a little less than 2 weeks! Which is why we use that fantastic product! That particular "Bacteria in a Bottle" is the only one which contains the bacteria you actually need, other cycling products just help the cycle along where this one actually kick-starts it!
> 
> Sounds like you've got a great plan! I think your Endlers will be just fine in the tank ^_^ Some of my favorite Endlers which aren't pure but still super cute are Yellow Jacket Endlers!


They are adorable! I haven't seen any around here though... and I don't really want to risk ordering online. 

And Tuesday will mark two weeks since using SafeStart...I don't see any nitrates yet ]=


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What are your other levels? Plants also soak up ammonia before the bacteria can eat it up so if you have a half planted tank then you'll be doing something called the Silent Cycle; it happens very slowly but also silently so you really shouldn't see much ammonia/nitrite or nitrate even although they show up a little later in the game ^_^


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> What are your other levels? Plants also soak up ammonia before the bacteria can eat it up so if you have a half planted tank then you'll be doing something called the Silent Cycle; it happens very slowly but also silently so you really shouldn't see much ammonia/nitrite or nitrate even although they show up a little later in the game ^_^


Ammonia got up to .25 before the two weeks, so I added some prime. Nitrites 0, Nitrates I assume are 0 (I'm using API and it shows dark yellow). I'm going to do 50% water change Tuesday as directed. 

I just want to give it more time since whichever other fish I get, they seem to not be as hardy as bettas and I don't want to kill them by jumping the gun.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sure, that's fine! It's better to stock slower anyway unless you were doing a fish-less cycle in which case you would want to stock right away but otherwise, take your time ^_^ it won't hurt anything!


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## G26okie (Jan 16, 2014)

Wiggyl said:


> Did you print out the picture? I pulled one up on my phone and put it up to the glass and he just kinda pouted at me...
> 
> I've looked at most of the "recommended" tankmates and one reason I like endlers is that their preferred tank parameters seem to fit mine much more closely than other fish. Plus they don't look much more colored than neon tetras.
> 
> For example, the rasboras and tetras prefer lower pH and slightly lower temperature than I hold. (I'm at like 7.4-7.6pH and 78F)


Picture on my phone.

My water is pretty hard here in sfl, and I haven't had issues due to that.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Most fish can adapt to any or most tank situations and parameters with a little care. However, in the best interest of the fish, if you can get as close to their normal parameters as you can and keep it stable then that is the most ideal situation. So I definitely commend Wiggyl here on doing research on parameters and which would be best suited for their water! 

That said, Neons will be happy with pH right up to 7.5 so a little bit over that isn't going to hurt them at all. And their temperature range is very wide; ~68-82 is fine for them  Most Tetras don't mind the hotter temps that our Bettas like which makes most of them, not all, good tankmates for parameter-wise at least. Most of the time they are ruled out for being so nippy or rambunctious is all.

If you've never heard of Drip Acclimation, I urge you to google it! It's the only type of acclimation I use practically now! Not only is it very easy on the fish, it's super convenient and easy for you too since you don't have to stand over the fish and measure out water; you just let it drip in for an hour or so depending on the fish type and voila; fish are acclimated! ^_^


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Most fish can adapt to any or most tank situations and parameters with a little care. However, in the best interest of the fish, if you can get as close to their normal parameters as you can and keep it stable then that is the most ideal situation. So I definitely commend Wiggyl here on doing research on parameters and which would be best suited for their water!


Thanks!



lilnaugrim said:


> If you've never heard of Drip Acclimation, I urge you to google it! It's the only type of acclimation I use practically now! Not only is it very easy on the fish, it's super convenient and easy for you too since you don't have to stand over the fish and measure out water; you just let it drip in for an hour or so depending on the fish type and voila; fish are acclimated! ^_^


I'll definitely look into it....although I'm running low on airline tubing and money :roll:


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## Artemis (Mar 9, 2013)

My biggest concern would be that endlers breed a lot and the females pause in the water when they drop the fry, the male wouldn't need to be very fast to grab a brand new baby. They fall for a bit before kicking up to swim. Get a breeder net. Some people have issues, I never have. Just make sure the female actually is ready to give birth within about 2 days. I would keep them babies in there for at least a week to let them grow a bit. 

You NEED to get Riccia fluitans (Crystalwort) it is amazing for fry. I got my half black pastel guppies because there were babies hiding in the bunch of riccia I got. The guy who was selling it couldn't get all of them out. Get it before java moss. It's wonderful.


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## Wiggyl (Feb 13, 2014)

Artemis said:


> My biggest concern would be that endlers breed a lot and the females pause in the water when they drop the fry, the male wouldn't need to be very fast to grab a brand new baby. They fall for a bit before kicking up to swim. Get a breeder net. Some people have issues, I never have. Just make sure the female actually is ready to give birth within about 2 days. I would keep them babies in there for at least a week to let them grow a bit.
> 
> You NEED to get Riccia fluitans (Crystalwort) it is amazing for fry. I got my half black pastel guppies because there were babies hiding in the bunch of riccia I got. The guy who was selling it couldn't get all of them out. Get it before java moss. It's wonderful.


As somebody else mentioned, I guess they can take over a tank pretty quickly when they breed. I actually wouldn't mind them providing live food for the rest of the tank though...


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