# Khuli Loaches?



## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Okay, so my boyfriend seems to be interested in my tank now after we took a bad trip in Walmart. The fish of the interest were violet goby's. We quickly decided "No, bad idea. _No._" So, he's willing to maybe, potentially, possibly feed them every now and again if we get something eel-like.

Currently we're looking at khuli loaches. He seems to like them. Dwarf loaches are a maybe. He thinks they look nifty but he wants something longer and packed with personality. Khuli's meet the eel-like matter of it because of their length. I did do a forum search before I posted anything but the only thread that seemed to be of assistance was over a year old and I really didn't want to necropost.

So. My question is how well do khulis get along with bettas? What I've found is that they typically only get to ~4". I've got a 10gal Aqueon from the Petco sale. It seems to be a bit narrow for my taste, but that was the only thing we could get and the only one that we can accommodate easily, lol. I do like the look of khulis, but it says on PetSmart that they do best in groups of 3-6. Since the general rule for fish to gallons is 1"=1gal and they're bottom feeders, would we be safe with just a pair?


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

I want to get kuhlis for my sorority tank eventually, I love them! I would think that they will be just fine because they are peaceful fish and stick to the bottom. My bettas completely ignore my corydoras who are also bottom dwellers.

I actually just recently learned that kuhlis should be housed in groups of at least 5. I had one in a 10 gallon when I was younger and he lived for a long time all by himself. I hardly ever saw him though. I've read if you have a larger group they will be out in the open more.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

2-3 loaches + a betta is to much for a 10g


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I have 2 kuhlis and a female betta in a 5 gallon, heavily planted. While I think the physical space is a little small for them, the water quality is fine ONLY because of how many plants the tank has. I would not recommend this for anyone really. Ever. That being said, I think that if the tank was heavily planted (for water quality sake), a 10 gallon could easily hold 4-5 and a betta. But please keep in mind they are also extreme escape artists, you absolutely need to have a cover for the tank (which you should for the betta anyways). Mine actually ended up in my filter for a few months. Also, I had them with a male for a while, but their fast movements were extremely stressful to him. Since my female can swim much faster, and all bettas are individuals, she seems perfectly fine with them. Though they also have good hiding spots in case she wants one for lunch.


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

So, would it be wise for ~2 khulis to be in a 10 with a betta? They do get up to 4 inches long. eatmice says it's a bad idea and Kyt has had experience with two of them in a 5...

Can I get some more weigh-ins? Pros/Cons? I've never had khulis before, not really seen them really, save at Youtube.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Kuhlis must be kept in groups, with a sandy bottom. 
Loaches are very thin and don't have much load to them, a few lives plants and you should be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

They really should be in a larger group than what I have. At least 3. But as Olympia said, they have a fairly low bioload, hence why I firmly believe that 4-6 could easily go in a 10 gallon with a betta with enough plants. Sand is def preferred, though I have sand and mine never bury, preferring to simply hide behind a rock I have. The inch per gallon rule doesn't really apply to them because they are shaped so different than a normal fish. When it comes down to it they are probably more like neons. Without a betta, 8-10 would probably happily live in a planted 10 gallon. Though like I said before, they are very sensitive to water quality. So don't go with more than 4-5 if you don't heavily plant or don't feel experienced enough with keeping good water. They are also fairly nocturnal. Sometimes they are out during the day, but they are most active at night so keep that in mind if you want a fish you see all the time.

Also, these fish can live 5-8+ years, and are thus a much longer commitment than a betta. I got mine as an impulse buy about a year and a half ago. They were only a dollar apiece, and it was definitely stupid on my part. I knew they didn't get very big, but I should have done more research on their other needs. They do seem very happy though.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Agree! Though mine are always out. With larger groups you will generally see them out more often.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

I've been intending on either black lagoon gravel or a black sand since I'm curious about ghost shrimp. The thing that I'm primarily concerned about with my tank is that I'm concerned about 1"=1gal for fish. Is that rule more for bioloads then? My current wish tank is too much for a 10 I'm sure since I'm curious about snuffling corys, wiggly loaches, pretty bettas and ghost shrimp.

Would it be okay if I loaded the tank with Cabomba and Hornwort? I'm also attracted to Microsword, I think it was called, having problems finding it. Would the loaches be happy with these? I have heard that corys do tend to uproot plants, so I am aware of this if I happen to get any.


And thanks for the information guys! I knew there was more to it.


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I kind of figured that, though my betta might also have something to do with that. She doesn't actively try to eat them, but that doesn't mean she doesn't try to investigate them when she sees them during the day. I mostly see them out in the morning and in the evening.


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

That rule is more of a guideline. Certain fish, such as goldfish fall more into a 2 gallons per inch rule. They are very dirty fish and create a huge bioload. Whereas shrimp create almost none. I have heard of people having hundreds of cherry red shrimp in a 10 gallon. Loaches seem to not be very dirty fish, just as bettas aren't if they aren't overfed. Hence why stocking guidelines can be pushed a bit with good fish keeping practices and plenty of plants to help keep the water quality.

Please put as much of any plant that grows for you into your tank as you like! I personally love really heavily planted/overgrown tanks. I have a 10 gallon with a giant betta and some ghost shrimp and sometimes I can't find the giant it is so heavily planted! Let alone the shrimp. I couldn't tell you how many I had if I tried! Since loaches bury as well they might uproot your plants. Pretty much anything that is a bottom feeder will. Heck, some bettas like to uproot plants! 

As for your dream tank, I know what you mean about wanting this or that! You might be able to squeeze some ghost shrimp in if you have say, 4 khulis and 1 betta, but you are going to have to be really careful with the water. Both shrimp and khulis are very sensitive to poor water. They also both really like to jump out of tanks. But a 30 gallon tank would probably be perfect for everything you want to live peacefully together. You could have 5-7 cory cats, 5 or so loaches, tons of shrimp, and a pretty betta to oversee everything. lol. 

If you start to grow the plants before you add stuff they might stand a better chance against uprooting. Maybe. It depends on the fish.


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Augh, if only we had the money and space I would have gotten a 29 from the Aqueon sale, lol. Well, money primarily. I would have made space.

What would be good for me to start out cycling my tank with that could stay in the tank afterward? I want to get the bacteria set up and get my plants fairly well-rooted before I get much into the fish. I really, really don't want to do the loaches much as I would adore them because of how sensitive they are and the shrimp wouldn't do hardly much of anything I would imagine. Really, I almost want to leave the betta for last so it doesn't get stressed out by all these _things_ coming into the tank.


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## eatmice2010 (Jan 1, 2013)

Ya the bio load was what I was confused about, I thought they were like bottom feeders and created a big bio load.


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Well, they are bottom feeders, they just are a bit different it seems. Excited to see them nibbling and getting excited over food :3 It will be totally freaking adorable!!

But yeah, what would be good for me to start cycling with that I could keep in the tank? I'm determined about having a betta come in maybe a month after I get the loaches and I do not want them to be the cyclers with how sensitive they are. Would an otocinclus be okay? I don't want anything bright and flashy that would cause competition in a betta's eyes..


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Bump.

Also, does anyone know what colors kuhli loaches come in other than black? What's the coloration called that they are black and yellow? He wants some that are brighter colored like the ones in this video.

And are they carnivores or omnivores? I take pet stores like PetSmart and PetCo with a grain of salt just to be on the safe side. And that video looks like they're munching on an algae wafer.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Kuhli loaches are the orange and black "banded" ones. From what I've read the Black Kuhlis they have at Petsmart are actually Java Loaches - similar but a different species. Unfortunately they don't carry the real kuhlis at chain stores, just the black ones. I know at least one aquarium specialty store in my area that gets the banded kuhlis, so I'd call around and see if they have them, I like them better than the black personally.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Generally the banded ones are Pangio kuhli or Pangio semicincta. Black ones are most commonly Pangio oblonga.
Common store names for fish are a pain in the butt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevko (Nov 15, 2012)

Ooh, that is really good to know. I'm in Arnold/St. Louis so I'm limited when it comes to fish places save online. I'm wary and paranoid when it comes to buying fish online as well since I've never done this before... My boyfriend and I both think that his uncle is part of the Missouri Aquarium Society and buys fish on occasion from their fish auction so we're thinking about maybe going to see if we can get in to see if anyone's selling or giving away the banded loaches. Only downside: It's on the 10th. I still don't have my heater ;__;


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## flyingpony22 (Oct 17, 2012)

My brother has the black and orange banded one in your video. He's had it for over 15 years now and its still going strong. He likes to hide in caves and under rocks and lives with several other fish including a betta. No one really pays him any mind.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Chevko said:


> Well, they are bottom feeders, they just are a bit different it seems. Excited to see them nibbling and getting excited over food :3 It will be totally freaking adorable!!
> 
> But yeah, what would be good for me to start cycling with that I could keep in the tank? I'm determined about having a betta come in maybe a month after I get the loaches and I do not want them to be the cyclers with how sensitive they are. Would an otocinclus be okay? I don't want anything bright and flashy that would cause competition in a betta's eyes..


I would suggest doing a fishless cycle. It's quicker and that way you aren't risking fishy lives. Definitely no otos - they are one of the most sensitive fish out there as they are wild caught using cyanide. 

I would definitely support the kuhli loach motion. The betta is unlikely to attack them unless he is ridiculously aggressive, as kuhlis are not super colourful (even the banded ones). You may have a kuhli-stressing-the-betta issue, but you may not. It's betta-dependent.  That's the trouble with bettas being such individuals - they are hard to make generalisations about.


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## broncosfan84 (Apr 11, 2012)

I have had 2 in my 20L tank for awhile now. They haven't bothered my betta and mostly they like to hide under my driftwood. They do like to eat my snails though.  I cleaned my tank the other day and now I have 5 total. I guess I got lucky and have a male and female.


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