# Open wound, white fuzzy.



## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10 G
What temperature is your tank? 78f
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? filter only
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 1-2 Oto's 

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellet
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1-2 every 1-2 days, depending on how he looks. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? This was first in 3 weeks, I know they need more frequent, but I was out for a surgery and couldn't get a fish sitter. 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 60-70
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? No

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Yes, since last night when I performed the water change, he's developed an open wound, with white fuzzy stuff. Before, had an odd bump on other side.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Yes, he's clearly not feeling well. The person who was feeding him while I was out over fed. I gave him peas, which helped him clear out, and he was feeling better...till yesterday's water change.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Today
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? I have had him for 1.5 years.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

The pic has a glare so its a little difficult to see but my suggestion is testing the water since it was 3 wks since the last water change there may be some extra ammonia and/or other toxins built up. I would do another 50% water change to be on the safe side if you can't test the water with a liquid test kit. I wouldn't jump to meds, but that's me, I would see how he does with the clean water, if it seems to be getting worse or not improving at all then I'd QT him & see about meds. Glad your feeling better.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks! I don't have a real QT, as he was supposed to be the only fish in that tank, (it's at work). Would his cup work if it comes to that? Maybe float it so he stays warm?


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## Syriiven (Aug 15, 2012)

Ammonia would build up in his cup too fast. If you could get your hands on a 1 gallon and keep it at the right temp that would work as a qt tank. I had to use a tupperware container for a while till I got two 1 gs. But Shellieca's right, clean water is the best thing right now. If you feel super fretful though, you could add aq salt (about 1 tsp per 5 gallons I think it is) to help the healing process along. I don't think it would do any harm to anything else. 

Hope he gets better soon though.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Very good point. Will just keep changing his water and hope for the best. He's a tough dude, still eating/attacking anything that falls into the tank.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

He's got a nasty infection, and I'd be treating a fish with an open/fuzzy wound with a broad spectrum antibiotic like Kanaplex and/or Furan-2 and quickly, before it went systemic. The fuzz is probably saprolegnia, an opportunistic mold that likes to grow on necrotising flesh - problem there is, in a weakened fish it can start chowing down on healthy tissue surrounding the wound, as well. 

So I'd yeah - treat with antibiotic. Maybe follow with antifungal after that if the mold persists.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

I added furan today when I got into the office. He looks terrible though. Also has a new open sore. Eating well, but belly is bloaty, displaying stress-stripes, and just not himself. Poor fish. :-(


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You need to test your water since you haven't been keeping up with changes. Test ammonia and nitrates. Ammonia will mean your cycle has broken down and nitrates will tell you if you need to make more water changes. After missing so many water changes you may need to make several back to back changes to get the water up to part. You need to change at least 20% weekly.

Furan 2 is a good external antibiotic but probably won't do much for fungus which that may be. It also won't treat anything internal which he may have. I suggest getting Kanaplex instead for these two reasons if he is not well after the furan -2 treatment. In the meantime I would acclimate him up at at least 1 tsp per gallon epsom salt - needs to be predissolved and needs to be pure with no additives as per the ingredients label. I know CVS Pharmacy sells some, but you can usually find it at your local grocery store in the pharmacy section. This will help with the bloat and also has natural antifungal properties. Watch his poop. See if it's ballish (consitpation) or has some odd color changes like white, clear, stringy or segmented (infection)

You feed as little as one pellet every two days? That's not enough. If you're feeding a standard sized pellet he should be getting 3-4 a day, split up into twice a day feedings, and one fast day a week. If you're feeding smaller ones like NLS he needs 5+ a day. I would also feed a high quality protein pellet like Omega One or NLS.

To keep him warm during treatment if you don't want to treat in your tank (Kanaplex won't crash your cycle but Furan 2 might) you can cup him and float in the tank. With a cup that small he will need twice a day 100% water changes (like one am one pm).. you can just use tank water.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks. I will take a sample in for testing tonight. He's getting another cleaning tomorrow, regardless. I will look for Kanaplex as well.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Okey dokey, his water tested good, ammonia @ 0-.25 ppm, Nitrite at 0, nitrate at 0 ppm before a massive water change. 
During said water change, the fluff fell off his wound, leaving a giant crater in his side. He's staring at me, so I can't get a photo, but it's pretty ugly. Fins normal, except his little arm fins, pectorals? ventrals? he has those squashed against the injury/infection sites. 
I'm giving him a few days on meds, but he is clearly so unhappy.How do you decide it's time to euthanize?

And in case he doesn't improve, does anyone in WA have Finquel in very small packets? I only have 3 little fish total, so I hate to buy a whole bottle of the stuff.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Do a google search for euthanizing with clove oil. The trick is to do it slowly and really make sure there's no more gill movement.. there can be one movement in several minutes towards the end.

I wouldn't assume he can't recover from that though.

Your tank is unfortunately not cycled. Have a read through the fish in cycle of this: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838 Consider creating a hospital tank for him that gets more frequent 100% water changes (depending on size) to keep the wound from getting infected while it heals.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

I am confused....! My test was between 2 major water changes, did you expect different results? The tank also has live plants in it. I don't have space for a hospital tank at/ funds to set up another tank. I can do nearly 100% changes daily if I need to. I will monitor his water chemistry carefully. I did switch him to the kanaplex.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

And he gets 2 pellets 2x a day, except the last week, because he wasn't pooping. I reduced his food & gave him peas. Unless I give him the tiny pellets, then he gets 3-4 per meal.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

If your tank is cycled you will have 0 ammonia and some nitrates. The no nitrates and some ammonia mean your cycle has broken down somehow, or perhaps it's too new to have been cycled. Cycling takes 3-8 weeks.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Ok, so it's pretty clear from testing that my cycle is bent badly, if not totally broken atm. His heater wasn't set up right either, and I'm unsure of when/why that was done. I'm keeping up with big water changes on alternate days, and dosing with kanaplex. Today was the 3rd dose, tomorrow he gets a water change, again. My media's been removed, so that the medicine wouldn't get filtered out.

He is more active and eating very well. 

But despite the medicine he is furry again. He lost the patch of fuzzy during a water change before I started the kanaplex. It's baaaack. SO, does this mean it's a fungus, or just a kanaplex resistent bacteria? what should be my next move?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Don't remove the media, just any carbon.. Your cycle will be gone.

If you're treating in the 10 gallon you should be dosing 2 scoops every 48 hours.. Yes? How long have you treated for..


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

My filter is one of those that has the carbon in the floss. I am keeping it wet, but not in the tank, so hopefully I can restart once he's better. Today is the 6th day since starting the kanaplex. Yes, I have been following package instructions, so, 2 scoops every other day.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

IAL really helped when Carter had that. I used a few other things.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Schwannsee said:


> My filter is one of those that has the carbon in the floss. I am keeping it wet, but not in the tank, so hopefully I can restart once he's better. Today is the 6th day since starting the kanaplex. Yes, I have been following package instructions, so, 2 scoops every other day.


Sorry to say but the BB won't survive unless there is an ammonia source feeding it. Keeping it wet will only keep it alive for a day or 2.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

BB dont just need Ammonia some need Nitrites some need Nitrates to make Nitrogen.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks! There's a shell/holder thing that's supposed to keep BB in there, but just looking at surface area, it's insufficient, thus the water changes. 
The filter has a floss/carbon cartridge insert, which has, I believe? the majority of the BB. Anyway, I had to pull that, to allow the Kplex to do it's thing. 
This morning, his fuzz on one side is gone, but the other remains fluffy.
The kanaplex bottle says I can't do more than 3 doses. 
I have a package of fungus guard fizzy tablets from Tetra, which has nitrofurazone, furazolidone, and potassium dichromate as active ingredients. After the water change I'm doing today, should I give that a go?


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> BB dont just need Ammonia some need Nitrites some need Nitrates to make Nitrogen.


Ammonia is converted to nitrites, nitrites to nitrates. Without ammonia the cycle doesn't go & BB dies.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

shellieca is right. You can put it in something larger, heated with a bubbler and feed it liquid ammonia from Ace Hardware in drops, but I'd still be careful and test water a lot when you put it back in and not assume it's okay.

You can very safely treat for up to two weeks, dosing every 48 hours. Make sure you do your water change in between the two weeks, taking into account you now longer have a filtered tank. f it's working but not totally gone I'd treat another week.

The Fungus Guard may work but it'll be harsher. It's basically Furan 2 plus a third ingredient. If you want to switch, I'm not saying it won't be effective, just personally like keep fish stress minimum. If you think he's getting worse or it's completely not working then I would switch meds.


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## Schwannsee (Jan 19, 2011)

It's a 10g, planted, with some other little fish, 100% wc isn't feasible. I can do nearly 100%, I can change every other day, etc. Basically, I can keep waste products dilute enough to be safe. I can do daily WC, obviously before dosing with the meds. 

Cycling is the least of my worries right now. I can test water daily now, and dilute/remove waste as needed. I will do the cycle once I can replace filter media without removing meds, but not with the chemical, since I have fish and plants in system already (tank has been running for over 1.5 years). I will add IAL at that point too, a blackwater environment is very interesting! 

So, suggestion is to keep dosing every 48 hours for another 8 days with kanaplex?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

shellieca said:


> Ammonia is converted to nitrites, nitrites to nitrates. Without ammonia the cycle doesn't go & BB dies.


 Yes but still there is a source of nitrites needed then nitrates it does start with ammonia though. But should never end in nitrites.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

CB, sorry but you're not making any sense.. so it's hard to even know how to respond except shellieca is right. The cycle starts with an ammonia source. Without that source, regardless of anything, the bb dies, cycle crashes.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I am saying yes BB need Ammonia but it does not end there Cycle can end in Nitrogen.


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