# Does the tank absolutly have to be heated for breeding? if so what degree?



## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

i saw this video on youtube that said it had to be heated 80-82 degree? is that true wil they still make it if its a littl eless then that or not heated at all?


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

The spawning tank absolutely needs to be heated. I keep mine at a constant 83 degrees. Your betta tanks should be heated anyways, whether you are spawning them or not. Bettas are tropical, and originate from waters that are always 78-82 degrees. Anything less and you have a lethargic betta.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Make sure to do plenty of research before attempting breeding. The stickies at the top of the breeding section are a great resource to get you started.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

why do they need to be heated? my bettas never been heated and ive had one for about 4 and a half years


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Again, bettas are tropical fish. They need heated water, or else they will be more susceptible to illness and infection.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

dang that sucks


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

It's a part of basic betta fish care. You should want the best living conditions for your betta, just as you would want the best for a puppy. Bettas deserve to be treated well just like any other pet.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

well of corse this is just the first i am hereign bout a heater and those are a good bit of money especialy for a good bit of bettas


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

Can they live with out a heater? YES
Will they be happy and healthy without a heater? NO
Its kinda like keeping people at 40F degrees all the time, we will survive but we wont be happy or healthy. I keep some of my bettas on a realy high shelf because heat rises so they stay at a good 78-80 in my house.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

Crowntailed said:


> Can they live with out a heater? YES
> Will they be happy and healthy without a heater? NO
> Its kinda like keeping people at 40F degrees all the time, we will survive but we wont be happy or healthy. I keep some of my bettas on a realy high shelf because heat rises so they stay at a good 78-80 in my house.


good idea!!! i should keep them in my roo minstead of in my basement i bet that would help a good bit then do you think?


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

It's certainly better than nothing. You can buy heaters on eBay for $9 with free shipping. I just purchased several, and they work great.


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

That depends on how hot your room is?


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

If you live in a place that is warm climate all year long then you don't have to have a heater but if you in an area of 4 seasons then it's mandatory while breeding,


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

My fish room is heated to 82F (usually). The water temps are around 80F. I place my spawn tubs on the top shelf of my 6ft industrial shelf and the temps stay around 84F. 

Bettas are tropical fish and tropical temps are in the high 80s and 90s. 80F is cold as far as tropical goes so I keep my bettas in the mid 80s.

@Kaden... those heaters work? AWESOME! I'm going to need some starting in the fall since my fish room can only be heated comfortably in the spring/summer.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

MrV, they certainly do work. =) The only downsides are the prongs to the outlet slip out real easy, so you kind of have to bend them outwards so they stay put. And the cord is pretty short, probably 15 inches or so. That's a pain too, but I'd say worth the $9 definitely.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> MrV, they certainly do work. =) The only downsides are the prongs to the outlet slip out real easy, so you kind of have to bend them outwards so they stay put. And the cord is pretty short, probably 15 inches or so. That's a pain too, but I'd say worth the $9 definitely.


Plugs slipping out of the outlet means your outlet is worn, not a bad plug. Time to change the outlet. Also I buy the best heaters I can find as a failed heater can cause a lot of killed fish...

The Coralife are very expensive in the pet shops, for a 100W are 40 bucks plus, but I get them online for 20 - 25 bucks.... Settable and fully adjustable. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003C5TPF6/ref=gno_cart_title_1

Jeff.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

The prongs slip out in both my wall outlets as well as my brand new extension cords. It's the plug, not the outlet.  Heck, I'd rather pay a great price for something that works just as well as the expensive variety. It's job is to heat the water, and it does it without a problem.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Also heaters go out within a few years -_- It's cheaper to replace the cheaper ones than the more expensive ones. 

I've been around the block with heaters and I've found no particular heater to last very long with constant use. Hence the reason I start pulling them when I can heat the fish room without too much strain on my space heater.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Also fry need the stable temperature that only an aquarium heater or purposefully heated room can provide. Sudden fluctuations in temperature by even a few degrees can be enough to kill off the weakest and stress out the strongest. 

I know even in summer in my bedroom the temperature can swing quite rapidly and if your tank is not a decent size, it will cause spikes and drops in temperature.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> The prongs slip out in both my wall outlets as well as my brand new extension cords. It's the plug, not the outlet.  Heck, I'd rather pay a great price for something that works just as well as the expensive variety. It's job is to heat the water, and it does it without a problem.


If your heater prong is loose that's usually a big no no or any prong. That can have a big risk and may cause a spike on your heater and cause it to blow and spark your outlet.

If your going to buy a heater that is made out country always look for reviews on that product online to be on the safe side and (UL) certified. Sometimes cheap can have a risk


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

These heaters came from the USA. They aren't so loose that they won't even stay in, but with the lightest tug they will pop right out. My boyfriend, who has done wiring and sockets for building houses, says its not a risk to bend the prongs outwards just a hair. If anything it makes it safer because it keeps the outlet secure, not half in half out where a spark could get free.

I agree with MrV, its a lot more cost efficient and they do the same job. If you want to blow $40 on a heater, by all means be my guest. xD its like buying a lamborghini versus buying a Toyota camry- they will both get you from A to B just fine, but one costs a heck of a lot less than the other.


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## Marlboroack (Jan 30, 2012)

No. I have done it on my kitchen table in the middle of winter with no heating in my house..

Fry are still good.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> These heaters came from the USA. They aren't so loose that they won't even stay in, but with the lightest tug they will pop right out. My boyfriend, who has done wiring and sockets for building houses, says its not a risk to bend the prongs outwards just a hair. If anything it makes it safer because it keeps the outlet secure, not half in half out where a spark could get free.
> 
> I agree with MrV, its a lot more cost efficient and they do the same job. If you want to blow $40 on a heater, by all means be my guest. xD its like buying a lamborghini versus buying a Toyota camry- they will both get you from A to B just fine, but one costs a heck of a lot less than the other.


I went the cheapo heater route, it broke and fried a tank of fish. Also could have burned my house down.

No thanks!

And I spent 25 bucks on the 44 dollar heater on amazon. A good quality heater that will last forever and not burn my house down.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

arnt those new heaters like preset to a certain degree??? like how do u get ur tank to 80?? ii put 2 heaters in my tank and it stayed at the same degree cuzz they turn of when it reaches to 76 and turn on when it goes down to 75


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

You have to get the adjustable heaters.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

MaisyDawgThirteen said:


> You have to get the adjustable heaters.


were do you get those at?


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

almost any pet store sells them, or you can order one of online. (Online is sometimes cheaper)


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

Crowntailed said:


> almost any pet store sells them, or you can order one of online. (Online is sometimes cheaper)


alrigh till look online i supose


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I got mine online. It heats my 20 up nicely  I need to get more!!! lol. Free shipping, world wide, between 6 and 30 dollars usually depending on size.

Bettas come from Thailand, aka a tropical place... But because stores sell small containers since they can breathe due to the labrynth organ, they are kept in tanks that heaters are dangerous to use in... Now they make bowl heaters, but those are iffy and are preset.

For breeding, 82-84 degrees seems to be the norm, and immitating the natural habitat with "rain" (I use a spray bottle), lowering the water, adding cooler water, tannins, etc, usually helps. Plus conditioning - fill them up with frozen, freeze dried, pellet and live foods. Mine are getting mealworm meat, which the mealworms were being gut stuffed. Never toss two together, because they have to be ready  Make sure the gal is eggy too - usually helps.

Do a bit more research, of course! You'll never be able to learn everything by reading, but you can learn a lot and get the appropriate fry foods, jars, tannins, meds, etc


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## Marlboroack (Jan 30, 2012)

surprize30 said:


> arnt those new heaters like preset to a certain degree??? like how do u get ur tank to 80?? ii put 2 heaters in my tank and it stayed at the same degree cuzz they turn of when it reaches to 76 and turn on when it goes down to 75


Get one that will heat a higher gallon.. Example. 55 gallon in a 15 gallon. You can make it 80. Just monitor


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

80 is still cool IMO.

An adjustable heater is a must.

Also you want to attempt in June correct? I'd wait at least a year to do more research and invest in a quality pair.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

trust me there is a LOT of research xD

especially if you did not know bettas needed heaters in the first place...

I don't know anyone who can get a pair to breed without the water being warmer. the fry die, because the surface will be dry and cold... their labrynth organs will fail.


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## Marlboroack (Jan 30, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> trust me there is a LOT of research xD
> 
> especially if you did not know bettas needed heaters in the first place...
> 
> I don't know anyone who can get a pair to breed without the water being warmer. the fry die, because the surface will be dry and cold... their labrynth organs will fail.


I did it..

Not with Betas but gouramis too


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I got a pair to breed in cooler water but the fry never made it.

80F is COLD in tropical terms. The water should be in mid 80s.


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## Marlboroack (Jan 30, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> I got a pair to breed in cooler water but the fry never made it.
> 
> 80F is COLD in tropical terms. The water should be in mid 80s.



Bettas are lucky to get 80 degree water in the wild.. I walked through marshes to find wild ones. Pretty sure it was not 80 lol


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It's better for fry to have warm humid air and water. It's better for someone NEW to betta breeding to keep the water at the appropriate temperature(s).


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've been in tropical areas before. It's cold. I've also talked to IBC judge and transhipper Linda Olson and she came to same conclusion. The water is very warm in Thailand. By human standards maybe not. 84F water in Mexico is still cold for a scuba diver like me. However to a betta that's perfectly warm.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

MrV is right, next time you take a bath or shower, take the temp. You'll be suprised how warm it is. Much warmer than 80 degrees.


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## Marlboroack (Jan 30, 2012)

Of course a warmer betta is a happy betta. Remember temp changes cause the fry to die off. You don't want it to vary in temp daily or your Betta fry are going to be brain dead.


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

Most people like a temp of 72-75. And bettas like a temp of 80-85. It would be like keeping people at 40 degrees all the time, we can live at that temp but will we be happy/healthy? NO. That is why bettas NEED to have there temp around 80 ALL the time.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Marlboroack said:


> Bettas are lucky to get 80 degree water in the wild.. I walked through marshes to find wild ones. Pretty sure it was not 80 lol


In the wild it may not be 80 degrees water, yet the Betta has hundreds of eggs each spawning, and how many spawnings a year? There is a reason there are so many eggs. It is to ensure the propagation of the species in a harsh environment...

Now "ideal" conditions are somewhere between 80 and 84. Trial and error has found this results in the maximum survival rate. Can you breed in colder? Someone would have to do the study, I am just concerned with what is proven and works.

Not an expert, just know what works for me.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Keep in mind that wild bettas are very, very different from Betta splendins. Splendins are a lot more sensitive to water quality and temperature, which means their fry are THAT much more sensitive to it. Wild bettas are ridiculously hardy, and don't have long, glamorous fins draining their energy. If a splendin fry survives cooler water, it will grow up more slowly and will be smaller, stunted compared to heated water adults. It will also be weaker and a lot more susceptible to disease.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> In the wild it may not be 80 degrees water, yet the Betta has hundreds of eggs each spawning, and how many spawnings a year? There is a reason there are so many eggs. It is to ensure the propagation of the species in a harsh environment...
> 
> Now "ideal" conditions are somewhere between 80 and 84. Trial and error has found this results in the maximum survival rate. Can you breed in colder? Someone would have to do the study, I am just concerned with what is proven and works.
> 
> Not an expert, just know what works for me.


While I was still living in Hawaii back in 96' I bred my first betta didn't know nothing about them I didn't even used a heater cause it was warm climate all year long, the coldest it would get is maybe 68 degrees. One day I was so curious and excited like a kid with a new toy when I bought my first VT female, all I had was a 10 gal tank, anacharis, wax paper and betta pair and I surprisingly succeeded with egg yolks, infusoria and frozen BBS. So in my opinion if you want to start without a heater start when your climate is warm were it gets warm at night too


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't say start out that way... Butr I guess it's up to the individual.
I took the safe route and listened to people on here and made sure my temperature was 80-84 xD Right now for conditioning, I use black water extract (something new to me to try), sponge filter that is cycled, and fed lots of protein rich foods including live foods. Flaring every day as well, and getting a female eggy ;-)

Also if you can, order some IAL (indian almond leaves). They are a natural conditioner, tints the water, and helps towards breeding a pair. Plus the male may decide to use them for his nest :lol:


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

+1

I'm super curious about Teak tree leaves. I've heard breeders in Thailand are using them more and more, they have the same benefits as IAL but they strengthen the scales on the fish and burn away fat, making them more lean and muscular. The leaves also last longer. 

I probably wouldn't use them in spawning tanks because they remove fat, and I like my growing fry as plump as I can get them. But I think they'd be pretty great for conditioning. 

*hovers over "add to cart" button*


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: I never heard of those! -will now look them up-


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

http://www.bettawan.com/teak_leaves.html

They're a lot cheaper than IAL, too. $10.50 for 100g. :shock:


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:shock: I noticed. I mean I pay 5.00 for 6 leaves, plus shipping... This one is 20 leaves for less, and low shipping cost... -notes to self :lol


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

*FREE shipping!! It sure makes it hard not to order them. x.x But like I said, I'm afraid to use them in fry tanks because they melt fat. =/


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'd use them for... hmm... .. .. Don't you need the father to be energetic and fattened up though? :/

On a side note, if someone cannot get IAL get dried Oak Leaves.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I wouldn't use them in fry tanks either. They need that fat to grow (I'm notorious for feeding too much but I get fast growth). 

I would however, ask the Thai if they use them in fry tanks.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Hey, there's Oak trees in Colorado, I totally just realized. =D I live right near a forest, I'll have to start gathering them up.

I think the Teak leaves are mainly used for fighting bettas. ._.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If they're used for fighter bettas I want some. I use a lot of fighter techniques because... well those fish are strong. I want strong fish.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

That's true. So maybe use them for conditioning? Bleh, I'll just stick with IAL. But,.... well they are cheap. Agh


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Idk when I get some cash I might try them. Though it's getting to the point where I need another shipment of IAL.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm in need of some, too. I'm debating between ordering from Amy or Bettawan.com. Bettawan is a lot cheaper, and free shipping.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Generally could you use it for the overall health of a fish? would it aid in a sick fish's recovery? -hmm- :lol:


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Supposedly it aids in fin/body damage, adds natural antibiotic into the tank and helps to regulate pH just like IAL. I wonder how drastic the fat burning is. I can't resist it, I'm going to order some and use them on one of my males. I'll take before and after pictures.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: :lose weight fast!"


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Teehee. The Biggest Loser Version: Betta. I'll stick him in one of those endless pools and crank it on high. xD xD


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: that'll work xDD


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

The only way to make your betta fit and strong without all that natural meds is Protein and a little current flow. Just like us humans we eat or drink proteins and workout to make us strong, don't know much about long tails but I usually shape them up with proteins and a current flow, I try to keep my betta strong and healthy by having them fight current for a bit to keep them strong and lean so there rays stand out with thick scales like this dude..


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> +1
> 
> I'm super curious about Teak tree leaves. I've heard breeders in Thailand are using them more and more, they have the same benefits as IAL but they strengthen the scales on the fish and burn away fat, making them more lean and muscular. The leaves also last longer.
> 
> ...


Sounds like some kind of infomercial..... Perhaps I'll get them for me? Although I don't need strong scales...:shock:


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

I suppose the strong scales would be good for the females that take a beating during spawning. Makes them more agile, too.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

that's what I was thinking :lol: I know my gals usually hurt themselves more than anything :roll: they "bury" themselves in ornaments, or at least try... so scales get scraped off. then the male attacking her :lol: if I were her I'd want armor 

Buuut as for protein I give them mealworm meat... the mealworms are gut stuffed with veggies and fruit, then fed to the bettas. They devour it...


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Where do you get mealworm meat?  Don't think I've ever heard of it. Is it good for conditioning?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: from mealworms!!! 

Mealworms are used to feed reptiles, and predator fish. You get them in a container, toss them lettuce or an apple slice or whatever, take one out, chop the head off and squeeze out the meat x.x I warn never to feed the shell.... my one girl took off with a large piece meant for Madame and she got it stuck :roll: it came out eventually, but she was unhappy with her greedy demise xD

I've used it for conditioning before, because it's got the protein, it's right fresh - not even frozen, and they love it. No betta I have refuses mealworms...


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

Mealworm flesh, live Tubifex, Mosquito larva, Fzn Bloodworms, Pellets, Mysis shrimp and Beefhearts are good source of Proteins for bettas, they use to have Microworms flesh soft pellets for bettas back then but it seems that they don't make it anymore, It was like cat nip for them hehe


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

Whoops I meant to type mealworm soft pellets*


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've never heard of them  I have to go through chopping the heads off of wringling worms, squeezing the meat out and letting the bettas do the rest of the work x.x yuck xD


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

t::vomit::vomit:Gross!!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I see two X's dramaqueen :lol:


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