# What small fish could I put in a 10 gallon with betta and nerite snail ?



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

I was wondering if there are any fish at petco I could put in with a nerite snail and betta. Or rather than a small school, just any fish in general that stays more to the bottom and middle of the tank.

Or can I not do that without overstocking ?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well I don't think there's much for a 10 gallon, if it were 20 you could do some Oto's or some small corys. But corys need space to swim and both need to be in groups of 4 or more which wouldn't work to well in a 10 gallon.

Sorry but I don't think any schooling fish can go in with a Betta in a 10 gallon, first because of the size restrictions. Most schooling fish like to swim a lot so 10 gallon is too small for them, and if they do get angry because of space they might end up picking on your Betta and that wouldn't be good.

I would suggest maybe some ghost shrimp? They're pretty easy to look after and rather nifty. I would be careful though because your Betta might think of them as a tasty treat but if you get the biggest ones they have, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also spaces for the shrimp to hide in would help them out too ^^


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

Thank you that's really helpful! Do you think I could have a betta and 2 nerite snails? And that's it?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Certainly, two is probably a good number because I do know they clean fast. Do you plan on doing any live plants in there?

(Also some Betta's will pick at snails but if they are big enough they do tend to leave them alone)


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Certainly, two is probably a good number because I do know they clean fast. Do you plan on doing any live plants in there?
> 
> (Also some Betta's will pick at snails but if they are big enough they do tend to leave them alone)


Unfortunately not yet, I don't have the resources or time for a planted tank, though I plan on it in the future. I just dunno how fast the snails move or how entertaining they are I don't want a mostly empty looking tabk haha. Though I hear the snails will ride on each others backs sometimes and that would be cute xD


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol yes they will and they can move pretty darn fast! I actually had some Mini Yellow Rabbit Snails that moved very slow but my Pond Snails zoomed all over the place! It was rather funny!

If you really want you can split the tank in two with a divider and put two Betta's in and they could each have their own snail but that would prevent them from being able to piggyback ride. But it's just a thought


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Lol yes they will and they can move pretty darn fast! I actually had some Mini Yellow Rabbit Snails that moved very slow but my Pond Snails zoomed all over the place! It was rather funny!
> 
> If you really want you can split the tank in two with a divider and put two Betta's in and they could each have their own snail but that would prevent them from being able to piggyback ride. But it's just a thought



cool!!! thank you for all the info I think I'll get one betta and 2 nerite snails x3 that will be awesome haha I hope petco has a good selection because they are the only place around here that sells fish and they are a hour away! ha. zebra snails are a species of nerite as well right? do you think that petco might have a olive nerite and zebra nerite? or are those something i would get from a breeder? 

also, do you know if the bettas are a nice selection and healthy? sorry for all the questions just excited : D


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup Zebra is a type, I think it's more just different colorations though but I'm not terribly certain about that.

I know our Petco and Petsmart don't have Nerites but they might at yours. If not and you have a credit card or your parents do, you could order some offline. If you live in the US you could order from here: http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/16-snails I've used them for my Mini Yellow Rabbit snails and they came in great condition and they're very good on pricing as well!

It's also a hit or miss when it comes to Betta health with the bigger chain stores. Sometimes they will look really good but others they might be really bad looking. But if you find one that you like but it looks like it might need some fixing up first, you could always bring it home and ask the forum for what you can do to make him healthy again. Most Betta's will be much happier with warmer water and clean water and will get healthier that way but some might need a little extra care.

I assume you know about water changes and stuff like that? Also, if I remember correct, did you say you were cycling your tank before getting the Betta?

And no worries! Getting a new set up and fish is always cause to be excited for!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup Zebra is a type, I think it's more just different colorations though but I'm not terribly certain about that.
> 
> I know our Petco and Petsmart don't have Nerites but they might at yours. If not and you have a credit card or your parents do, you could order some offline. If you live in the US you could order from here: http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/16-snails I've used them for my Mini Yellow Rabbit snails and they came in great condition and they're very good on pricing as well!
> 
> ...



Yay for the link! I will probably end up having to get my fish and snails online because I live in a small town, and the petco is in Jonesboro which is also not that big. I'll take a look and hope for the best haha. Any good places to order fish? I'm leery of ordering LIVE animals but I suppose with the proper packaging it should be ok. I don't have very much experience in treating Ill fish so its better if I start with a healthy one unless I really fall in love with one. haha. I would love one with the big ruffly tails x3

Yes, after my paycheck this sunday, I'm going to go get a tank and the water conditioner and such. I already have ammonia (that DOES NOT bubble when I shake it and smells terrible. I'm pretty sure its 100% even though it isnt that Ace stuff. There is no Ace stores here.) and I am gonna cycle my tank BEFORE I get the fish. (my mom thought I should just use tetra safe start but I figured I should just be patient)


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Gotcha, that's good about the ammonia. So it doesn't have any surfactants in it? Does it give ingredients at all? (And I _also_ apologize for all the questions lol I'm excited for you!)

That's great that you are cycling it though! I wish I had done it properly before putting my Betta's in but I also didn't exactly know too much back then but everyone's pretty happy now though which is good.

So you can look in a few different places, Ebay actually sells some on there and they are usually already in America so you don't have to pay extra fees. If you go on AquaBid most of the fish are over in Thailand so you have to win the bid and I believe what happens is that it is shipped to the Tran-shipper and then there is an additional fee to get it to you but if it's a fish you REALLY want, I would say it's worth it to pay more!

I've never used it, but I know on ThatPetPlace.com and LiveAquaria.com you can message them to see if they have a particular Betta that you might want, but again I haven't done that so I don't know what they have in stock and stuff like that but they're pretty cheap so I would give it a try if all else fails.

And yeah, I love the big ruffly tails too! My halfmoon plakat (HMPK) has a rose tail which is just a halfmoon with too many branches which creates a rose look. He's in my photo album on here actually if you wanted to look at him.
And I'm a sucker for HM's in general (just look at my Avatar, that's Rembrandt) but surprisingly I only have one HM. They have a tendancy to "blow" out their fins, they get little holes from flaring too hard and they split their fins sometimes too. So it can be a bit difficult at times but he's totally worth it!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Gotcha, that's good about the ammonia. So it doesn't have any surfactants in it? Does it give ingredients at all? (And I _also_ apologize for all the questions lol I'm excited for you!)
> 
> That's great that you are cycling it though! I wish I had done it properly before putting my Betta's in but I also didn't exactly know too much back then but everyone's pretty happy now though which is good.
> 
> ...



Oh crap, well, I'm gonna have to find ammonia elsewhere maybe? It says "Ammonium Hydroxide, Surfactant" for the ingredients. (I couldnt tell well since the label is worn out) but when you shake it, there are ZERO bubbles, and when you have it on your fingers its the same "texture" as water, and I smell NOTHING but the ammonia. Its REALLY strong haha. I dunno then? Every sign says its ok but that is on the label?

and hmmm.... I just worry about it coming dead haha. I have never ordered a fish before and don't wanna pay a arm and a leg for one. (I looked on aquabid before and some are over $20 o.o ) but those are all good ideas and I'll take a look : D I love all your links they are helpful : D and I love your fish! they are so pretty! I want a pretty ruffly one. : 3


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Everything that I've read says that if it doesn't have bubbles then it should be fine, but I know surfactant isn't good :/ hmmm, I think maybe I would stay away from that and just use Tetra's Safestart to be safe. I know it's not exactly ideal but it will actually work faster to get your tank cycled (at least from what I've read) it should cycle in 2 weeks. But yeah...I'm not sure.

If they come in dead, the seller usually as a dead on arrival policy where they will send you another fish that is nearly as equal as the one you did pay for. But I'm happy you liked the links and that I could help!

Darn, if you lived close to me I would totally take you to the shop where I got Mercury at (he's the HMPK that I was talking about) because they've got a few more like him!

So there's no small pet shops around you at all? Just the Petco an hour away?


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Everything that I've read says that if it doesn't have bubbles then it should be fine, but I know surfactant isn't good :/ hmmm, I think maybe I would stay away from that and just use Tetra's Safestart to be safe. I know it's not exactly ideal but it will actually work faster to get your tank cycled (at least from what I've read) it should cycle in 2 weeks. But yeah...I'm not sure.
> 
> If they come in dead, the seller usually as a dead on arrival policy where they will send you another fish that is nearly as equal as the one you did pay for. But I'm happy you liked the links and that I could help!
> 
> ...



hmmm.. I dunno i posted about it to get some opinions. I might just use the tetra. I just dont wanna do anything that would be hard on the fish. Would I have to add the TST often? 

AWW!! DARNNNN I want one like yours! They are so pretty! 

and no, not as far as I know. I'll research on the internet, but I'm pretty sure that thats it. : (


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well that stinks about the pet shops and not being around your area!

the TSS you only add in once, you dump the whole bottle in, no matter the size of the tank, the smallest one treats up to 30 gallons though so for 10 gallons just dump it all in. I think I read somewhere it's best to keep lights off during this? I think it's for the fish to be less stressed and there's something about UV sterilizers that I don't quite understand. But you just let it run it's course for 14 days and then I think you do a large water change and voila, your tank is cycled and with less stress to your fish! Well...less than doing a Fish-In cycle without TSS.

Yeah, definitely good to get opinions about that ammonia though. What state do you live in? (assuming you're in USA since you haven't said otherwise) Maybe I could find some fish at my shop and ship them to you? Lol, just a nice thought.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Well that stinks about the pet shops and not being around your area!
> 
> the TSS you only add in once, you dump the whole bottle in, no matter the size of the tank, the smallest one treats up to 30 gallons though so for 10 gallons just dump it all in. I think I read somewhere it's best to keep lights off during this? I think it's for the fish to be less stressed and there's something about UV sterilizers that I don't quite understand. But you just let it run it's course for 14 days and then I think you do a large water change and voila, your tank is cycled and with less stress to your fish! Well...less than doing a Fish-In cycle without TSS.
> 
> Yeah, definitely good to get opinions about that ammonia though. What state do you live in? (assuming you're in USA since you haven't said otherwise) Maybe I could find some fish at my shop and ship them to you? Lol, just a nice thought.



Interesting on the TSS. I might do that. I live in Arkansas haha thats a really nice thought XD : 3 I dunno if they would survive all the way from Rhode Island o.o but that would be awesome haha


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well if I packed them correctly I'm sure they'll survive haha I've never shipped before so I'd be kind of wary to actually do it. But just in case something does come up, any colors you like in particular?


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Well if I packed them correctly I'm sure they'll survive haha I've never shipped before so I'd be kind of wary to actually do it. But just in case something does come up, any colors you like in particular?



Wow! You would really be willing to do that? You are so nice o.o I love purple, black, blue, I dunno! : ) I looked at the types of tails, and the ones I like are the halfmoon ones so pretty!!! ha : 3 






























I'll look at petco first and hope they have one and HOPEFULLY the nerite snails, otherwise, I'm out of luck and I'm gonna have to go online ha. Btw if you have skype you are free to add me anytime : )


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I do have a skype but I never use it lol, Better to just hit me up here with a PM or something 

And sure, I'd be willing to help you out! I mean, I can't gaurantee anything but I'd be happy to look and take some pictures if anything happens to come up. I plan on taking a trip tomorrow to just chat with the owners since I haven't gone in two weeks and I'm sure they miss me haha They know I just like to look at the fish even if I don't buy anything, they also give me wicked awesome discounts on fish sometimes!

I got Mercury for 14.99 even though he was going for 20. I was also able to haggle with them, I bought a "female" betta at walmart I was going to rescue and put in soroity but it turned to be a male so I traded it with one of their females ^^ They're pretty awesome got to say!

Good luck with your Petco and I hope you can find something decent there at least! Or at least come back to say their stock looks half healthy at least haha


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> I do have a skype but I never use it lol, Better to just hit me up here with a PM or something
> 
> And sure, I'd be willing to help you out! I mean, I can't gaurantee anything but I'd be happy to look and take some pictures if anything happens to come up. I plan on taking a trip tomorrow to just chat with the owners since I haven't gone in two weeks and I'm sure they miss me haha They know I just like to look at the fish even if I don't buy anything, they also give me wicked awesome discounts on fish sometimes!
> 
> ...



WOW! Wish there was a store around here like that. Sounds so awesome : D

Haha I hope so. It always really depresses me to see sick fish and animals. If I do, I'll be sure to post pictures of it! : D So excited!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, they are a great store, they're only 2 1/2 months old so they pretty much need all the business they can get and they've definitely lured me in (unfortunately their equipment is too expensive so I won't be getting any of that there but their fish stock is great!)

I hope your store is good too! It's always great to see people actually taking care of their stock, can't wait to see if you find anything!!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah, they are a great store, they're only 2 1/2 months old so they pretty much need all the business they can get and they've definitely lured me in (unfortunately their equipment is too expensive so I won't be getting any of that there but their fish stock is great!)
> 
> I hope your store is good too! It's always great to see people actually taking care of their stock, can't wait to see if you find anything!!


Ah I understand that. Well the fish in your avatar is soooooioo beautiful I hope I find one like that. Pictures are always cool : ) I can't wait to see what is at mine I feel like the weekend is coming at a crawl haha. So tempted to just withdraw from the bank but I told myself I would just wait and use this paycheck haha. SO TOUGH. 

Me too!!! Also, I suppose I'll probably just get the betta ( and snails hopefully) and use tetra safe start since no one has answered on the forum about my ammonia. I suppose it's better I just don't take the chance


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ugg yeah, I literally have no will power left when going into a fish store, I HAVE to look at the bettas and I pretty much leave with one every time lol I'm at 15 right now....I should stop.....

The fish in my avatar (Rembrandt or Remmy) was actually from a place called PetSense it's a small chain around here but it's the only one I know of in RI. But basically it's a small version of PetSmart or Petco, but they just have Bettas for live fish. I had come in on a day they got a shipment and I saw him and I just had to take him home! I've had him since mid-December 2012  He's my oldest at the moment!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ugg yeah, I literally have no will power left when going into a fish store, I HAVE to look at the bettas and I pretty much leave with one every time lol I'm at 15 right now....I should stop.....
> 
> The fish in my avatar (Rembrandt or Remmy) was actually from a place called PetSense it's a small chain around here but it's the only one I know of in RI. But basically it's a small version of PetSmart or Petco, but they just have Bettas for live fish. I had come in on a day they got a shipment and I saw him and I just had to take him home! I've had him since mid-December 2012  He's my oldest at the moment!


Haha it would for sure be that way for me if not for me only having enough space in my room for one tank haha. Oh wow! I think I might have a pet sence in batesville! ( it's a hour away from where I live as well in the opposite direction I live between two bigger towns haha) were most of the fish there healthy looking? Was it ony bettas?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah it was only Betta's but the store is only about 6 months old so I'm not sure if other PetSense's have other fish or not but our's is only Bettas. Sometimes their stock is kind of sad looking but for the most part they have great Betta's, just no females which made me sad lol

Yeah I've got 5 planted tanks going at the moment and two of them are split in half. Tank cleaning day is always fun haha They are just so addicting!

I saw someone say once and I loved it: Betta's are like Pokemon, you've got to catch them all in all 20 different colors! lol I died when I saw that! It's so true!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah it was only Betta's but the store is only about 6 months old so I'm not sure if other PetSense's have other fish or not but our's is only Bettas. Sometimes their stock is kind of sad looking but for the most part they have great Betta's, just no females which made me sad lol
> 
> Yeah I've got 5 planted tanks going at the moment and two of them are split in half. Tank cleaning day is always fun haha They are just so addicting!
> 
> I saw someone say once and I loved it: Betta's are like Pokemon, you've got to catch them all in all 20 different colors! lol I died when I saw that! It's so true!


Oh that sounds good! I'm excited! I might be going to batesville with someone this Saturday, so I might be able to look! Maybe I should withdraw so I can get my fish on Saturday while I'm there... I mean, I can keep track of how much I spend... GAHHH i have bever had self control problems before this is a first haha

I wanted to do a planted tank, but I'm gonna have trouble keeping up with the water changes as it is much less plants. Haha. I have never had a planted tank before anyway. But I did get silk plants instead of plastic : ) 

OMG I love pokemon x3 I saw one betta somewhere on here that looked like a goldeen! I was like "I WANT THE GOLDEEN" haha


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha that's awesome about the goldeen!

Yeah...self control is just gone....oy vey >< lol

I love planted tanks, well at least tanks with live plants in them. An actually Natural Planted Tank or NPT has a soil base with usually a sand cap on it but it's fine to have gravel/sand and they do great with just a bit of fertilizer each week.

Plant's don't really help to clean the water, they just keep the Nitrates down to a healthy level for your fish, and of course they look great usually, can be shelter for your fish and they grow which means you can have more plants! But silk plants are good too, I still have some silk ones which I'm using in my baby's tanks while they grow and then they'll each move to their respective tanks when they are old enough.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Haha that's awesome about the goldeen!
> 
> Yeah...self control is just gone....oy vey >< lol
> 
> ...



Awww I just called petco to ask if they have nerite snails and they only have inca and mystery snails. The customer service was terrible for all my questions though haha. It sounds like they have a bigger selection of bettas but they sounded like a huge chain that didn't care so much. I called petsense and they had me speak with a actual polite person and the selection wasnt as big sounded like but the bettas might be healthier.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh that's good, I always forget to call ahead sometimes >< lol well I don't like calling much in the first place but that's neither here nor there.

I would check them both out just to be sure anyway, sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough at places that don't care much, and sometimes they'll be mislabeled and you can get a more expensive one at a cheaper price! So IMHO it's always worth the look ^^


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh that's good, I always forget to call ahead sometimes >< lol well I don't like calling much in the first place but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> I would check them both out just to be sure anyway, sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough at places that don't care much, and sometimes they'll be mislabeled and you can get a more expensive one at a cheaper price! So IMHO it's always worth the look ^^



I plan on it. This saturday I have to go to batesville with my little brother to get my contacts and he needs glasses. I plan on looking at pet sense, and then later next week taking my mom to Petco so she can pick some fish. Then I will decide if I wanna get my Betta there too, or have to go to batesville another day to get it at petsense. Its very inconvenient that jonesboro is a hour and a half away and batesville is a hour. haha wish there was a local store. 

Also, I am gonna have to order the snails online and I was thinking of ordering from the link you sent me. Do you think priority mail would be ok? I was thinking of getting a zebra nerite and a red spot nerite. 

Also, I assume I should wait till safe start has run its course with just my betta in the tank before I get the snails. I shouldnt do any water changes while the TSS is going right? Unless the Ammonia gets too high haha


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ammonia shouldn't get too high while using TSS, that's kind of the point of it, it keeps all the levels down to a tolerable level, but I think if you see they are getting too high than you can do a water change, I'll have to look that up though.

Yeah priority is fine! That's what my snails were sent from, I'm kind of cheap when it comes to shipping.....just remember to acclimate them all the same as you would a fish, the pH level will probably be different than theirs. I acclimated for half an hour and they were fine 

Yeah that does suck there's no "local" store, we just had one of our locals start back up again this week after going out of business for a while back in February. So this makes 7 stores I can choose Betta's from lol, guess that's the good thing about living in a small state


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Ammonia shouldn't get too high while using TSS, that's kind of the point of it, it keeps all the levels down to a tolerable level, but I think if you see they are getting too high than you can do a water change, I'll have to look that up though.
> 
> Yeah priority is fine! That's what my snails were sent from, I'm kind of cheap when it comes to shipping.....just remember to acclimate them all the same as you would a fish, the pH level will probably be different than theirs. I acclimated for half an hour and they were fine
> 
> Yeah that does suck there's no "local" store, we just had one of our locals start back up again this week after going out of business for a while back in February. So this makes 7 stores I can choose Betta's from lol, guess that's the good thing about living in a small state


Thanks for the info on the snails! I have never kept snails before and I have never ordered online before either, so I was somewhat leery. BUT if the ones you ordered came in good condition I'll go for it : ) Can I handle snails ? As in pick them up or have them out of the water for a short time? Not that I am thinking of doing that. They would stay in the water all the time for me. But my brother might pick one up when I'm not in the room... 

I can assume I don't have to quarantine them then? I can just acclimate them if they are healthy right? Does your tank produce enough algae to feed the or do you give them algae wafers on occasion? If so, how often?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, they came great, they also don't come in water, just a small bag filled with air. So what I did was I placed them in a cup and poured in a little water every minute or so, and it was a very little amount of water. the first time just enough to get the bottom wet, but I don't know the real acclimation of snails, I just did what felt right.

And as far as I'm aware you can pick them up by their shells, that was the only way I could pick mine up if I needed to move them since they wouldn't let go for a net lol. Also some snails can live out of water for a while, I know Nerite is one of them. Just make sure you have a lid on the tank, sometimes they'll try to sneak out when you're not looking but I've never had that problem lol.

I've never heard of quarantining snails but I think if you are worried about something getting into the tank, yes you can QT them for a week. I know some people even do this with plants, I just trim the roots and throw them in lol.

When I got them I did have lots of algae due to too much light and not enough fast growing plants to take care of it, but the biggest problem was my driftwood which had plenty of algae and mold on it which my snails started on right away and hardly put a dent in it so they had plenty to eat. 

Snails and other algae eaters also eat Bio-film which is what makes objects in your tank slimy so if you reach in your tank and feel the wall of it, it should be slimy after a while and that's bio-film. If it feels like it's squeaky clean then there is no bio-film, it doesn't take long for it to grow though. But they will eat that as well, you can throw in a blanched slice of cucumber every now and then, put it on a string or something if you like and you can leave it in for most of the day I believe.

And if you still feel like it's not getting enough food you can toss in part of an algae wafer, on the container it says to leave it for an hour and remove any uneaten bits, but your snails might not find them for a little while so you can either pick them up and place them near the part of the wafer or let them find it on their own. I've had bits of bottom feeder wafers left in over night, but mind you it's a 33 gallon so less apt to have an ammonia spike than a 10 gallon. But I think two hours would be fine, unless you see that it is clouding your water, then take it out.

I wouldn't do all of that everyday but make once a week or once every two weeks, the snails will find things to munch on  And of course having actual live plants in there will help as well, but those are down the line I know 

(Whoops, I made a long post again lol, sorry for the excessive info XD)


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup, they came great, they also don't come in water, just a small bag filled with air. So what I did was I placed them in a cup and poured in a little water every minute or so, and it was a very little amount of water. the first time just enough to get the bottom wet, but I don't know the real acclimation of snails, I just did what felt right.
> 
> And as far as I'm aware you can pick them up by their shells, that was the only way I could pick mine up if I needed to move them since they wouldn't let go for a net lol. Also some snails can live out of water for a while, I know Nerite is one of them. Just make sure you have a lid on the tank, sometimes they'll try to sneak out when you're not looking but I've never had that problem lol.
> 
> ...





Oh no, thanks for the long post that's some great info and makes me feel alot better about what to expect from the seller. Do you think a tiger nerite and red spot one would be cool ? They won't blend in with black gravel? 

And cool! Ill just remember I need to keep the light on for a while to let the algae grow since It won't be in the light : ) 

So excited! Any experience with nerites? Or is the yellow snails that you have similar or better?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay good ^^ I like to talk too much some times haha.

I would definitely think those two would be cool! I don't think they'll blend in that much.

No experience with the Nerites but I know they are good snails, my Mini Yellow Rabbits were very different. They were burrowing snails because I have sand which needs to be churned every now and then to prevent dangerous gas bubbles from building up under neath it, but they didn't do much burrowing. They were more occupied with the driftwood and hardly left that or the tank wall. But now my BN Pleco is the kind of the driftwood and glass haha.

I don't really think one is better than the other, it's just what you need. I needed burrowers so I got them, I also thought they were cuter because I don't like snails much. But I know nerites are wonderful snails and do a great job cleaning up.

If you want to grow more algae and don't have any plants in, you can use some liquid fertilizer to stimulate their growth, just be careful not to do too much, just use as directed for your size tank. Over dosing ferts can be harmful to your fish, but used at the right dose is completely fine  But since you have no other plants in there, at least for a while, the algae can get a foothold in and start to grow.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Okay good ^^ I like to talk too much some times haha.
> 
> I would definitely think those two would be cool! I don't think they'll blend in that much.
> 
> ...


Yay for the info on the snails! Question, which is better really, sand or gravel? What are the advantages and disadvantages? I've always used gravel with all our other tanks.

I was wondering if I could have live plants without substrate? Like, Just one live plant maybe? (I DO NOT have a green thumb I'm trying to keep my potted plants alive haha) Could I just have one area with some soil, or sand, or whatever it is I would need? I guess my question is how to go about it.

Also, at walmart, would the little pack of "Live Aquarium plants" (They are 4-5 little bulbs) would that work? I don't know what plants they are, but I don't wanna order any plants and it would have to be something easy that I don't have to do much to.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, never use bulbs unless you know you can grow them, most of them are duds anyway. I've tried a few myself and even though I'm real good with aquarium plants, I can't get them to grow so it's really not worth it.

There are a few plants that you could use. Java fern will literally attach to anything, you could tie it to your filter intake pipe and it would grow on it. You could get some driftwood and there are few things you can grow on that, java ferns, any mosses, and anubias will also attach to those. All three of those are low light and pretty much very hard to kill plants so those would be great. There are some floating plants as well, although those would probably have to be ordered such as Water Sprite, Hornwort, duckweed/frogbit, anacharis and a few others I'm forgetting lol.

It all comes down to personal preference with gravel vs. sand. Gravel was nice and cheap for the time being but the thing I don't like about it as that things sink through the cracks in the gravel which means you need to siphon out all the gravel to the bottom of it.

The thing I like about sand is that it compacts down and all the debris stays on top, which can also not look too nice if you've got light colored sand and don't vacuum it out twice a week but with black sand I hardly notice sometimes. But you don't have to worry about digging through gravel to get the extra debris. But you do have to churn it every now and then, not sure about how often but I try to get a section turned at every water change. Dangerous gasses can build up under the sand so you just need to stick your finger in every now and then and move it around. But it's really not that hard.

I'm in the process of changing all my gravel tanks to sand just because I think it looks better, it looks more natural for their habitat and for me, it's easier to clean. You'll also get good at not picking up sand when you vacuum but it will happen the first few times. 

Oh also, there are some plants that comes in pots, I know our Petco has them in their little plant tank. They're literally called Potted Plants and are like 5 bucks or something. you could just leave them in the pot to grow, although I don't know if you'd need to do anything to them in the future or not, but it's a thought and I'm sure you could google it and find the answer ^^


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yeah, you could have Marimo Moss balls too! Those you have to order though, there are some on Ebay that are pretty cheap and some even have free shipping right now! Woot


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Okay, never use bulbs unless you know you can grow them, most of them are duds anyway. I've tried a few myself and even though I'm real good with aquarium plants, I can't get them to grow so it's really not worth it.
> 
> There are a few plants that you could use. Java fern will literally attach to anything, you could tie it to your filter intake pipe and it would grow on it. You could get some driftwood and there are few things you can grow on that, java ferns, any mosses, and anubias will also attach to those. All three of those are low light and pretty much very hard to kill plants so those would be great. There are some floating plants as well, although those would probably have to be ordered such as Water Sprite, Hornwort, duckweed/frogbit, anacharis and a few others I'm forgetting lol.
> 
> ...


hm, well I can't get driftwood right now, I do have a tight budget, and most of it looks somewhat expensive, the potted plant thing sounds cool, like i could just leave it in the pot? and burry it deep enough in the gravel the pot wouldnt show? and well, the sand sounds good, I researched it a bit more but for the time being, I think I'll stick with vacuming gravel only because of a budget and its what I'm used to. I think In the future I would love to have a planted tank with sand and soil and all that stuff : D but just not something I could afford right now. I wish I could trade people something for it but I don't have anything haha^^; 

so are there easy plants that dont need to attach to anything aand will grow pretty easily? would I have to have soil under them or are there any plants that can grow in just gravel?

I heard about the moss balls, that seems like it would be cool and a good idea cause they just like, float right?


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh yeah, you could have Marimo Moss balls too! Those you have to order though, there are some on Ebay that are pretty cheap and some even have free shipping right now! Woot


also, what kind of cave type things do you have in your tank? I was thinking of getting a betta floating log, or leaf hammock or putting a flower pot in my tank, or trying to get a cave of some kind. What would you recomend? 

Also, as long as I check with vinegar, boil, and soak rocks in treated water, could I put rocks or shells I find in the tank? I dunno if I would or not but there are a lot of cool rocks where I live that would be cool to put in, and wouldnt cost me anything. OF COURSE, I wouldnt wanna do that if there was a chance of harming my fish. Just curious


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Nope, moss balls sink and stay at the bottom! I actually just ordered 5 from a place, they're only 1.5 inches but they will grow slowly! You just need to rotate them every now and then so the bottom doesn't brown out. (I actually got 1 free from them too, they were having a special and free shipping! Woot so it was 9.00 even!)

Oh, if you have the gravel and get the potted plants then I would take them out of the pots. I was talking about if you had no substrate as in no gravel/soil/sand etc.

Plants will grow just fine in gravel, depending on the plant it does better in my gravel than sand and visa versa. I don't believe there are plants that don't root except for the floating ones I mentioned and the Moss balls. I mean, the floating ones do have roots and all but they are leaf feeders more than root feeders such as sword plants.

Anything will root in gravel or sand, it doesn't make a difference to the plant. I actually had some plants called Ludwigia that grew out a massive root system in only a little over a month when I left it alone to do it's thing, it was pretty cool ^^

And yes to the boiling for things found outside. You could soak them in 4x Condtioned warm water after you boil but I don't really think that's necessary, just let them air dry after you boil them. Careful with rocks as well, I know if you go too long that they can explode...yeah, hasn't happened to me yet thankfully. But yes, you could use rocks and shells from outside, I wouldn't advise any wood, plants, snails or other creatures from outside though, those would be carrying more diseases than you'd want to handle.

So long story short, you don't need soil for plants to grow, all plants have some sort of root system, and yes to boil everything.

Also I actually don't have caves for my Betta's or anything, I just have lots of plants which I'm working to rebuilding in my 10 gallon after I destroyed it because of an ich outbreak >< But the only girl that has a cave is the one in QT because that's the only thing in her tank while I do 100% changes everyday. But you could use terracotta pots for caves, if they have holes on the bottom either cork it up with hot glue or find something else aquarium safe. Or you can knock out the bottom just make sure to use rough sand paper to smooth out the edges so your Betta's fins don't get caught.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Nope, moss balls sink and stay at the bottom! I actually just ordered 5 from a place, they're only 1.5 inches but they will grow slowly! You just need to rotate them every now and then so the bottom doesn't brown out. (I actually got 1 free from them too, they were having a special and free shipping! Woot so it was 9.00 even!)
> 
> Oh, if you have the gravel and get the potted plants then I would take them out of the pots. I was talking about if you had no substrate as in no gravel/soil/sand etc.
> 
> ...



The moss ball sounds like a good idea if I could get one locally! I cant buy anything online right now other than the snails after my tank has cycled haha Well, when I order the snails I could possibly order a plant from the Bobs Tropical Plants site as well. Anything on there that is nearly impossible to kill, and is low light? (dont know too much about plants)

and glad you told me about the rocks : D I think I might make this for my snails and betta for a type of cave http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_caves.php I love arts and crafts and it seems cool! haha : ) alot of people have had sucess with it, it seems. I'll probably also add a flower pot for just a cave. : ) So excited! I hope the tank looks nice when I'm done and my betta will like it! I'll probably post a picture of it before I get the fish to see what everyone thinks and if you think It is good : ) I want him to have a comfortable and entertained life haha. The snails too. I hear they like to stay in little hideaways in the day so caves and a tunnel would be good for them too.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, the cave is awesome, I was actually going to do this for my shrimp too (back when I had them lol) but then I remembered I was poor and didn't have any PVC pipe laying around XD And definitely good for the snails as well!

Annnd for some plants, I know this first one doesn't look like much but it grows pretty great, I get a new leaf around a week to two weeks from mine. And they also latch to anything, do great in gravel and are low lights: http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashmp1367514690.jpg

Here are the moss balls from Bob's store, obviously a little more expensive than something you'd find on Ebay but I think these ones are a bit bigger than the ones I ordered anyway. http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashmp1367514690.jpg

And one of my personal favorites that I've yet to kill is Java fern! http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/java-fern/137-java-fern.html <---that'd be the link lol, another one that will attach to anything, don't bury it in the gravel though because it will rot, just leave it on top of the gravel or you can tie it to the PVC pipe/driftwood/terracotta pot and etc. This and the anubias will literally grow on everything, I've even seen where you can attach Java Ferns to the pipe on the intake of the filter if you have a hang on back or HOB, and it grows on it! Pretty nifty if you ask me ^^

Those are pretty cheap on his store as well, I like the nice whole numbers lol and just a comparison his plants are cheaper than the ones at PetCo and even his shipping isn't terrible! And of course you're closer so it shouldn't be too bad


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yes, the cave is awesome, I was actually going to do this for my shrimp too (back when I had them lol) but then I remembered I was poor and didn't have any PVC pipe laying around XD And definitely good for the snails as well!
> 
> Annnd for some plants, I know this first one doesn't look like much but it grows pretty great, I get a new leaf around a week to two weeks from mine. And they also latch to anything, do great in gravel and are low lights: http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashmp1367514690.jpg
> 
> ...



The first 2 links don't work! : ( 

I read a little about the java fern, and I am considering getting it since I'll be ordering my snails from him anyway. I didnt see the moss balls in his store : ( and there are so many kinds of anubias! haha could you fix the first two links so I can see what plant i can put in the gravel that will grow nicely?


EDIT: OH the balls are in the other section not the moss lol!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh that's weird...I haven't even copied and pasted aquabid links.....weird. Guess I should check my links before posting lol sorry ><

Here's the anubias: http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/anubias/98-anubias-barteri-var-barteri.html

And the Moss balls anyway: http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/other/156-marimo-balls.html

Yeah I like java ferns in general, I've got about four smaller ones and one gigantic mother java! It's literally got like 10 baby javas growing on it! It's so cute


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh that's weird...I haven't even copied and pasted aquabid links.....weird. Guess I should check my links before posting lol sorry ><
> 
> Here's the anubias: http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/anubias/98-anubias-barteri-var-barteri.html
> 
> ...



hmmm... so the anubias goes in the gravel, java fern attaches to stuff and the moss ball is just kind of... around? haha well, among them, which would you say I should get? I would really only be able to afford two maybe. what looks the nicest and is most beneficial? do you know if the betas like them?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well I really do like java fern, although some think's it is ugly. I would suggest looking up pictures of tanks that have those plants in them so you can see how they look in the aquarium setting  Google is great for that 

I know back when I only had java fern my boy would sleep in it all curled up and it was the cutest thing ever  So I'd say one java fern and one marimo ball if you're going to get shrimp. But if you're not going to get the shrimp now I'd go with one java and one anubias. Of course, these plants will always be here for you to get and they will grow, making babies and stuff so no rush really


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Well I really do like java fern, although some think's it is ugly. I would suggest looking up pictures of tanks that have those plants in them so you can see how they look in the aquarium setting  Google is great for that
> 
> I know back when I only had java fern my boy would sleep in it all curled up and it was the cutest thing ever  So I'd say one java fern and one marimo ball if you're going to get shrimp. But if you're not going to get the shrimp now I'd go with one java and one anubias. Of course, these plants will always be here for you to get and they will grow, making babies and stuff so no rush really



Sounds great! I'm not getting any shrimp right now, I figured my betta will have them as a snack haha. I'm getting two nerites and a betta x3 so excited. I'm gonna go with the java and anubias I think, cause that will keep me just barely under 20 dollars for my order and so thats barely in my budget would be going over my budget for a moss ball haha. I think the java fern looks pretty! 

I looked up some bettas and damn, 20 dollars for some of the really pretty ones haha. I have to buy the tank, supplies, food, decor, so Im trying to be wise with my money and do what I can. (hence as much homemade stuff as I can) 

I think the java fern and anubis is gonna look pretty! (wont look too weird among my silk plants I hope) and this should help cut down on ammonia then? 

I feel like sunday cant come any faster haha.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, Sunday will be here before you know it!

Plants don't really help with ammonia. What happens is after the cycle is completed (it's safe to have plants in while cycling) there are the three things: ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Plants utilize nitrates for food so thus keeping the nitrate levels down.

However if you have lots of plants like 10 in a 10 gallon you would be doing a thing called the Silent Cycle. Basically you have so many plants that it keeps all the levels down to a safe area, even with a fish in there. You won't get readings during the Silent Cycle because it's happening slowly, it takes a lot longer than fishless cycling but you never really need to worry about the levels being too high because the plants are just eating up everything. Hence the Silent Cycle, it's just being quiet ^^

I did this with my 33 gallon where I just had lots of fast growing plants, and added the fish in the next day! It's been set up since January and no problems other than that Ich outbreak but that was from my girls being stressed 

I love java ferns when they grow in and become bushy like! It's just so awesome to watch them grow and all! And homemade stuff is the best stuff you get because generally you know it's all aquarium safe, because even some things that say they are aquarium safe aren't really safe :/


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Haha, Sunday will be here before you know it!
> 
> Plants don't really help with ammonia. What happens is after the cycle is completed (it's safe to have plants in while cycling) there are the three things: ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Plants utilize nitrates for food so thus keeping the nitrate levels down.
> 
> ...



Well with just a java fern and anubias in the tank, pretty much the only thing it will do is provide oxygen then I assume? Also, I have a lava lamp and alarm on my dresser where the tank is gonna be, do you think the loud noise or light will upset my fish?

And how long will it take for the java fern to attach itself to a rock or tunnel you think? The anubias can just be put in the gravel with no probles right? the nerites dont eat plants right?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It literally takes like a week for Java fern to start attaching itself but might not fully attach for about two to three weeks. And the anubias roots can be either places above or below the substrate, it's another one you could attach to the PVC if you really wanted to, so it just depends on you  Mine are all in the gravel and root very well there.

I have one of my 3 gallons on my night stand with an alarm clock and my lamp which stays on for about two to three hours after their lights go off. He does stay up later with me but he never seemed to be bothered by it. So you'll just have to watch your guy and see if he doesn't mind, I know some betta's will go crazy after lights in the dark because they see reflections and whatnot  But again, you'll have to see what your new guy likes ^^


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> It literally takes like a week for Java fern to start attaching itself but might not fully attach for about two to three weeks. And the anubias roots can be either places above or below the substrate, it's another one you could attach to the PVC if you really wanted to, so it just depends on you  Mine are all in the gravel and root very well there.
> 
> I have one of my 3 gallons on my night stand with an alarm clock and my lamp which stays on for about two to three hours after their lights go off. He does stay up later with me but he never seemed to be bothered by it. So you'll just have to watch your guy and see if he doesn't mind, I know some betta's will go crazy after lights in the dark because they see reflections and whatnot  But again, you'll have to see what your new guy likes ^^


Sounds great! Hopefully my new guy will like having real plants : D I hope he likes the tunnel and caves and plants and stuff. haha I'll probably go through all kinds of effort and get a fish that just wants to float around at the top of the tank haha. Do you know if the males are less energetic than the females? I know the halfmoon bettas (the kind i would like) are super pretty but somewhat slow cause of their fins. Does your halfmoon swim around alot?

and oh thats good to know! ^^ just have to wait and see, I dont wanna freak him out with my lava lamp being all crazy next to him haha. and make him have a fishy heart attack when my alarm goes off next to his tank. ^^; 

also, I have a timer thing for my lights on my tank probably, so his tank light will come on automatically and turn off automatically at certain times (this would be more at night when im in my room and stll awake) does the light on the tank stress your fish out alot? which leads me to something else about the light, would a standard light just be fine for growing plants? cause i cant afford any special kind of lighting. just what comes in my starter kit hood : ) 

let me know if im being annoying with too many questions ^^ you just been so nice and helpful i can get excited :-D


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, the light that comes with the tank will be for low light plants like the ones I've shown you  so java fern and anubias will totally be fine in that light!

And no worries about too many questions! There can never be too many questions!! I love helping out and I'm so happy that I do have the change to help people out on this forum!

I find that all my fish are very active, some a little more than others. My dragon plakat Aero was very lethargic when I first got him, he was just adjusting to his new home so now he zooms all over and then loves to sit in his java moss pile lol

My only HM (weird to think I only have one HM since they are my favorites!) is Rembrandt and he's just as active as his tank mate Ditto who's a double tail. Both swim around and flare at each others shadow and then will rest at the bottom of the tank in the plants and then go swim around again. I find this is the case with most bettas lol

My females do swim around quite a bit, Little blue constantly shadows Mystique which annoys her to bits, it's rather funny. But they do rest in the Water Sprite occasionally. Mercury is actually my least active male, he spends a lot of time towards the bottom of the tank under the plants and then occasionally comes to the surface to breath or eat, of course now that he has a 5.5 to himself he's a lot happier and his color has deepened up so much!

At first they'll all be lazy while they get used to their new home but they'll be zooming around in no time ^^


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup, the light that comes with the tank will be for low light plants like the ones I've shown you  so java fern and anubias will totally be fine in that light!
> 
> And no worries about too many questions! There can never be too many questions!! I love helping out and I'm so happy that I do have the change to help people out on this forum!
> 
> ...



Yay! thats good to know : ) This will be my first betta, (my first tank too) but I have taken care of fish for a while, and bringing the fish home always makes me nervous cause its a long ride, and i worry they will get super stressed haha. I usually put them in a cooler so its dark and they dont move around too much. (we usually get quite a few bags of fish) 

Thats good to know about the HMs! do the bettas ever sleep in the caves on the bottom of the tank, or do they always prefer something higher up?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It depends on the betta. My late boy Piebald and my boy Aero both sleep on the ground in the alcove of one of their ornaments while Rembrandt switches it up. Sometimes he sleeps in the water sprite and other times he curls around his Java Fern. Ditto sleeps against the divider and Mercury sleeps upside down squished between a plant and the glass wall. I haven't actually seen my girls sleep so I don't know about them lol So it just depends on them 

Horray for first fish! Rembrandt was the first Betta I was able to keep alive and what really started my fish frenzy off!

Also brown paper bags are good for putting bagged fish in ^^ but yeah they'll be fine because they come in cups with lids  Just think about how long they travel to get to the states from Thailand though, one more hour until a permanent home isn't going to hurt them ^^


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> It depends on the betta. My late boy Piebald and my boy Aero both sleep on the ground in the alcove of one of their ornaments while Rembrandt switches it up. Sometimes he sleeps in the water sprite and other times he curls around his Java Fern. Ditto sleeps against the divider and Mercury sleeps upside down squished between a plant and the glass wall. I haven't actually seen my girls sleep so I don't know about them lol So it just depends on them
> 
> Horray for first fish! Rembrandt was the first Betta I was able to keep alive and what really started my fish frenzy off!
> 
> Also brown paper bags are good for putting bagged fish in ^^ but yeah they'll be fine because they come in cups with lids  Just think about how long they travel to get to the states from Thailand though, one more hour until a permanent home isn't going to hurt them ^^



Sounds good! I hope mine likes the little cave and tunnels im gonna make for him haha :3 (the snails too) 

I been trying to think of some other ways to decorate, but I think a flower pot (covered in the gravel) and a tunnel like the one I sent you along with 2 plants and some silk plants should make my betta pretty happy : ) but im open to more ideas I like the idea of making him a little home and coming up with DIY decor. Im just excited to have another pet in general! haha I flipped out over my kitty and 2 dogs i love animals so much haha ^^

yeah, thats true and makes me feel better just want it to be as least stressful as possible. 

So basically, my plan is to set up the aqurium with everything but the live plants and snails, add just my betta with some tetra safe start, and just keep a eye on it. With a 10 gallon tank and only one fish, i hope he will be ok :/ and then after its cycled, I'll order my snails and plants together and add them : ) hopefully everyone will be happy and safe right? just really nervous about the whole cycling thing cause i dont want my fish to get sick, but I cant properly cycle it since i really dont have access to any ammonia im sure is safe.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, they'll be fine! So I've just been cycling my 5.5 with my boy Mercury and TSS. It's been a week since I added it in so I checked my parameters today and everything is at zero! Mercury has never looked more colorful! So this is just more proof that TSS actually works lol

And you're properly cycling your tank with the fish in, it's just a different way to cycle it.

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention that I had a mix of real and silk plants for a while and it looked fine! I feel like the more cover the better since Betta's done enjoy bright lights.

And I completely understand about getting another pet and being excited! I've got my 15 betta's and three cats at my dads. At my mom's we have a feral cat that just had her kittens in our shed lol so that's five more cats. But we're finding homes for the kittens and hopefully spaying/neutering the mama cat so she'll stick around  Oh yeah and I'm also starting a fish tank at my mom's once we get rid of our piano haha Yeah...I'm crazy I know!

Oh also for DIY projects, there are so many things you can do with plastic mesh. You can make tubes out of it and it floats so it's like a floating bed for your betta! Hold on, let me find the link for it! http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=141777&page=3 here it is, you'll have to scroll down and then the next page to see how to make it but I made one for my Ditto and he loves it, he'll even rest in it sometimes but Remmy hates it lol

Also something else that I haven't done but I want to is to take River rocks and silicone them together to make a cave and then cover part of it with gravel so that my betta can sleep in it since they do seem to like the cover  you can get the larger rocks at Wal-mart pretty cheap, I use the black ones


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yup, they'll be fine! So I've just been cycling my 5.5 with my boy Mercury and TSS. It's been a week since I added it in so I checked my parameters today and everything is at zero! Mercury has never looked more colorful! So this is just more proof that TSS actually works lol
> 
> And you're properly cycling your tank with the fish in, it's just a different way to cycle it.
> 
> ...



thats good to know about the TSS, I was a little worried haha. 

and good to know! Im planning on taking pictures when Im done with it haha. maybe Ill take pictures while i build the little tunnels and caves and post sommething about it in a journal since i didnt see too much on alot of DIY stuff. 

I like the idea of the floating beds! I feel they are a bit ugly though, so i wonder if there is something similar i could do that isnt as ugly . I was planning on putting some sealant on a leaf hammock and using one of those, and having the caves and tunnels. Do you think I should make the tunnel in a curve, or some other way? I am excited to get creative about it haha about how much space does a HM betta need do you think?? like how big of a opening?

I wanna make sure my boy can swim around with ease, but dont want everything to be too big since its only a 10 gallon tank haha. and yeah! I dont have a lot of options for rocks at my walmart, but I was wondering if it would be safe(if i followed all the instructions) to get some rocks from my local creek. especially at least one for my java to grow on probably. 

btw, is cleaning any different with the live plants? do you need to move them when you use the gravel vac?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah if you used the boiling method and all that like we discussed before it shouldn't be a problem!

I just move around my plants when I vacuum out, the anubias will eventually have a big root system so probably best to just leave it be and vacuum around it 

HM's can clamp their fins to fit through small spaces but I wouldn't advise anything under a inch, maybe inch and a half just because there is a chance he could get his fins caught unless you made the edges of the PVC pipe very very smooth.

And I'm sure you could make it curve if you cut little sections and then just used silicone to seal up any gaps! I would make it so that you have one part of the pipe directed towards the back and then come towards the front where you would have half a pipe so it's leaning against the glass and you can see what's in there at all times lol, that's just me though XD

Oh another note on things found in the "wild", don't use things where you know insecticides and pesticides have been sprayed so like if the area around the creek had lawn around it that's been treated, that would be a no. But if it's in the middle of some woods or whatever that would be fine to use. Nothing around city areas either as these can be more contaminated.

With those plastic mesh you can also use java moss, tie it around and it will eventually grow to make a very soft ring of moss. Yeah it takes some time but it does look real nice after and yes I think you should make a journal about your projects! I know we're always looking for more things or how to improve things so I think that'd be a great idea!!

And with the TSS you're not supposed to do a water change until after 14 days I found out. And you can test the water from day 7 and on to make sure everything is order, but usually there is no need unless something is severely messed up but for that to happen you would have to like pour in an entire bottle of ammonia lol so you'll be fine. I believe after the two week period it's fine to jump right on track with weekly water changes as it is all cycled!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah if you used the boiling method and all that like we discussed before it shouldn't be a problem!
> 
> I just move around my plants when I vacuum out, the anubias will eventually have a big root system so probably best to just leave it be and vacuum around it
> 
> ...



good to know on the plants! and ok : ) I will probably try to go with 2 inches then maybe to be safe. and they have curved sections of PVC that would work great : D

and yeah, i was thinking that gonna have to make sure the edges are safe so ill sand it a little probably. do you know if you can boil pvc? is that something i should do or do you think it should be fine if i just make sure they are clean? (no soap of course) 

really? im glad you think so! sounds fun! I'll go through the process of me making my tank and making the tunnels and caves and take pictures : ) In all my excitment, i was hoping to find something similar ( a very through little log of the process) but there wasnt really a whole lot of what i was looking for haaha. I will probably start on it tommorow since ill be goign to petsense : ) do you know if they have black gravel?

yeah, i worried about that a little since i a all like, "shouldnt i change the water every week?" haha but i suppose 2 weeks should be fine in a 10 gallon with only one fish (thats why im holding off with the snails) haha


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, during a normal cycle you wouldn't change the water (unless the levels got so unbearable) until after the cycle is over which could be a month or more!

So anyway, I'm excited to see the progress! I love watching things grow, I think that's why I got two baby bettas lol but it's always just so interesting to see things expand and grow out 

I'm not sure about Petsense since it all seems to be different. Ours just finally got a decent selection of fish stuff with finally lowered prices, their prices were through the roof for a while!

And you know, I actually don't know if you can boil pvc pipe, I would assume so but you might want to google it or something. You could always make a new thread to ask that as well, I'm sure there's someone on here who knows about it 

Oh yeah, I forgot about the elbows and stuff haha


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yeah, during a normal cycle you wouldn't change the water (unless the levels got so unbearable) until after the cycle is over which could be a month or more!
> 
> So anyway, I'm excited to see the progress! I love watching things grow, I think that's why I got two baby bettas lol but it's always just so interesting to see things expand and grow out
> 
> ...



I think so too! haha maybe I'll even take some pictures at the pet store tommorow of some of the bettas. That is gonna suck in a way, im excited to get one and ill get to look at them, but not be able to take one home yet haha 



im sure there is ill google it : )


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh gosh I know, I hate going to a pet store knowing I can't take another one home!! I think I'm going to get that one at my LFS though, he's a gorgeous blue bodied, red fined double tail...I literally need to have him! I'm trying to figure out if I want to split my 10 gallon again to make 3 sections, each have about 3.8 gallons to themselves or do I split my 5.5 gallon to make 3-ish gallons for each? Or I could take out baby Tony and split the 1 gallon Critter Keeper I have and let them share that for now while they grow....that makes a problem I realize though....I'm not going to have enough space when they grow >< Ugggg fish keeper problems!!! Merrr, I'm going to go be a grumpy fish keeper now lol

Annnnyywhoo! Yes, pictures, pictures are always lovely!!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh gosh I know, I hate going to a pet store knowing I can't take another one home!! I think I'm going to get that one at my LFS though, he's a gorgeous blue bodied, red fined double tail...I literally need to have him! I'm trying to figure out if I want to split my 10 gallon again to make 3 sections, each have about 3.8 gallons to themselves or do I split my 5.5 gallon to make 3-ish gallons for each? Or I could take out baby Tony and split the 1 gallon Critter Keeper I have and let them share that for now while they grow....that makes a problem I realize though....I'm not going to have enough space when they grow >< Ugggg fish keeper problems!!! Merrr, I'm going to go be a grumpy fish keeper now lol
> 
> Annnnyywhoo! Yes, pictures, pictures are always lovely!!



LOL! Man, how do you keep up with all the cleaning???? I am getting just the 2 snails and betta in a 10 gallon cause im a lazy cleaner. (it will always be clean but the bigger the tank the less i have to clean it lol) 

and yes! Ill start tommorow or sunday. Ill probably start sunday when i have almost all my supplies, and take a picture of everything, and then do a sort of walkthrough of the building opf the tunnels and caves : ) so excited!!! i love artsy stuff x3 ill have to ask my dad about getting the PVC pipe, and I read that GE 100% Silicone I for windows and doors is basicaly the same as aquarium sealant and not near as expensive. plus, i dont have acess to the other stuff. so ill probably ask my dad about getting some at the local hardware store tommorow. 

and HOPEFULLY, I can get some black gravel tommorow at petsense or the walmart in batesville (since i have to go back to pick up my contacts now) if not, then ill have to wait even longer for my dad to get some at the petco in jonesburo : ( ;A;

I cant wait though! monday ill be able to go in the morning to the bank, and then get almost everything i need!!

i know i will have to wait a few days for the tunnel and cave to dry though cause of the vapors.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yay!! Exciting! Yeah even my Wal-mart who doesn't carry actual fish does have a fish part and does carry gravel so I feel it will most definitely have it there. But good luck!! 

Well as for cleaning I kind of split it between Wednesday and Saturday (depends on if I have things to do saturday, sometimes I'll do it Friday instead) but I do all the small tanks on Wednesday after I get home from college and then Friday I do another small change on my 3 gallons and the 5.5. Then on Saturday it's the 33 and the 10 gallon again.

Sometimes it can be a pain but for the most part I just do it automatically now after being a year with my first Betta. (Well most of this is set up from this past December but I had betta's before that for a year and just kept on the same schedule) But yeah, that's pretty much what I do


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yay!! Exciting! Yeah even my Wal-mart who doesn't carry actual fish does have a fish part and does carry gravel so I feel it will most definitely have it there. But good luck!!
> 
> Well as for cleaning I kind of split it between Wednesday and Saturday (depends on if I have things to do saturday, sometimes I'll do it Friday instead) but I do all the small tanks on Wednesday after I get home from college and then Friday I do another small change on my 3 gallons and the 5.5. Then on Saturday it's the 33 and the 10 gallon again.
> 
> Sometimes it can be a pain but for the most part I just do it automatically now after being a year with my first Betta. (Well most of this is set up from this past December but I had betta's before that for a year and just kept on the same schedule) But yeah, that's pretty much what I do



They only had 2 bags of black gravel : ( i was wanting 3 since i plan on covering the tunnel and pot in it, but hopefully it will be enough : ) 

IT WAS ADOPTION DAY THERE OR SOMETHING CAUSE THERE WERE ADORABLE PUPPIES EVERYWHERE AND OMFG I JUST OMG SO CUTE!!!!! I WAS ALL OVER THEM AND THEY FOLLOWED YOU AROUND AND OMGGGGGGG
sorry I spaz over puppies and kittens, and well, all my pets in general no matter how old they get . like:

Cat: *sleeping and rolls over and paws face*
Me: OMG DID YOU SEE THAT THAT WAS SO FREAKING CUTE OMG YOU ARE SO CUTE KITTY AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Dad: Looks like a cat =_= 
Me: YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND US *cuddles sleepy grumpy kitty I woke* 

and wow! I think one will be enough for now, and we will see how it goes! I was so excited to see the bettas even though i didnt have my tank yet I loveddddd one of the yellow halfmoons, it was so cute! but most of them other than the yellow one didnt really catch my eye. most of them were crowntails, and they are cute too, but I know petco has a bigger selection so im excited to see what they have too! petsense had all of theirs in cups, and my dad said petco was the same so i am guessing they will mostly be about the same level of health. 

IM SO EXCITED! I'll get my paycheck tommorow, then monday I'll go out and buy all my supplies (except my last bag of gravel if I need it which I think I will. If I do need one more bag, petsense wont get one till thursday although my dad can pick one up since he will be delivering it! haha hes a truck driver and his route is in the area) 

ANYWAY I'll get ALMOST everything, and get ALMOST everything set up, and I'll work on my decorations, and then have basically everything ready, and then........ I'LL GET MY BETTA!!!! SO HAPPY!!! 

Omg I just cant wait! I hope he likes me and isnt too scared for a long time! haha I even have already picked my nerites and plants in the cart on the website. (though Im more patient for them and I will wait for my tank to cycle)


----------



## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I know I'm a little late in this thread but since I have a Nerite in my five gallon, I did some research on them and found that having too many in a tank can be bad because they do eat a lot and compete for food. I found this believable when my Nerite cleaned ALL the algae in my tank in two days and left a ton of giant piles of poo all over the tank. I do believe they said its best to have one per every ten gallons. If they're getting enough food you should be seeing poop all over the tank on every inch of the gravel, lol. And that's just with one snail.

Of course you can feed them other things, too. I wholeheartedly agree that they are excellent algae eaters and will keep your tank sparkling when it comes to algae but the poop, oh my, the poop! That can be an eyesore, too. They are also very interesting to watch  mine is very active! I am planning on moving her to my 10 gallon, though. I now have a shrimp in that tank so I can move her. I just don't think she's getting enough to eat in the 5 gallon.

I have seen members with 10 gallon community tanks, too, but it is somewhat limited and the snails have a pretty big bio-load for their size. The thing is, besides shrimp and snails, most (if not all) fish they can be housed with are schooling fish. I have 6 female bettas in my ten gallon.

I think it may be possible to put Kuhli loaches in a 10 with a betta. They are interesting and have a small bio-load but don't quote me on that  depending on the capacity of the filter or the amount of live plants in a tank, it is possible to be a little more flexible on stocking.



But anyways, it sounds like you've already got it planned out  but in a way, I think he may be happier without other fish. Just make sure the snails get enough to eat


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I know I'm a little late in this thread but since I have a Nerite in my five gallon, I did some research on them and found that having too many in a tank can be bad because they do eat a lot and compete for food. I found this believable when my Nerite cleaned ALL the algae in my tank in two days and left a ton of giant piles of poo all over the tank. I do believe they said its best to have one per every ten gallons. If they're getting enough food you should be seeing poop all over the tank on every inch of the gravel, lol. And that's just with one snail.
> 
> Of course you can feed them other things, too. I wholeheartedly agree that they are excellent algae eaters and will keep your tank sparkling when it comes to algae but the poop, oh my, the poop! That can be an eyesore, too. They are also very interesting to watch  mine is very active! I am planning on moving her to my 10 gallon, though. I now have a shrimp in that tank so I can move her. I just don't think she's getting enough to eat in the 5 gallon.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! I'll keep that all in mind : D I do plan on feeding them when the tank is clean and they have nothing to eat : ) I'm pretty excited about it x3 and if the bioload gets to be too much, I can keep just one and put the other in my parents 100 gallon tank :3

I thought about a sorority instead of a community tank, but I think I will stick with just 1 fish and 2 snails for now just in case to see how I do : D


----------



## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't think the bioload will be too much, honestly. My 5.5 handle my betta, Nerite, and shrimp fine (although the shrimp has a tiny bio-load). The filter is also not the greatest. When I added the snail, though, it did shock the cycle and I ended up adding tetra safe start and it cycled in less than a day. My snail immediately perked up. If the snails are not active or eating, there's probably definitely a water quality issue, especially if they hang out right outside the water surface. They are immediate cues to water parameter issues.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I don't think the bioload will be too much, honestly. My 5.5 handle my betta, Nerite, and shrimp fine (although the shrimp has a tiny bio-load). The filter is also not the greatest. When I added the snail, though, it did shock the cycle and I ended up adding tetra safe start and it cycled in less than a day. My snail immediately perked up. If the snails are not active or eating, there's probably definitely a water quality issue, especially if they hang out right outside the water surface. They are immediate cues to water parameter issues.



ohh!!! thanks for telling me good to know D: maybe I should get a extra bottle of safe start... well, its 8 bucks a bottle so Ill wait and see if I need it since I plan on letting my tank cycle before adding the snails. HOPEFULLY, they wont mind the water conditions :/ I just want happy snails. I am new to them, so I plan on acclimating them slowly like with fish, and when they run out of food give them algae wafers and possibly zucchini. 
As far as my filter, I was gonna get a starter kit that comes with the aqua tech 5-15 filter.


----------



## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

It's never a bad idea to add extra sponge to the filter for more surface area. The snails will not like an uncycled tank. Shrimp and snails are more sensitive to water parameters. If the tank is not cycled, they may crawl out and sit right above the surface of the water and not move for long periods of time. I would make sure it's already cycled unless you have live plants.


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> It's never a bad idea to add extra sponge to the filter for more surface area. The snails will not like an uncycled tank. Shrimp and snails are more sensitive to water parameters. If the tank is not cycled, they may crawl out and sit right above the surface of the water and not move for long periods of time. I would make sure it's already cycled unless you have live plants.


ya, I said I was gonna let it cycle first : ) I'm also gonna order some plants when I order the snails : )


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yay I'm glad Ayala could fill in the info on the Nerites!

And I totally know what you mean about getting excited over your pets! We've got three cats at my dads, two boys and a girl and they hate it when I leave because I pet them the most and give them the most attention lol They literally are all my cats even though my brother, my dad and I all have our own cats, but all three flock to me haha.

And then we have a feral cat at my moms house who decided to have kittens in our shed! We've found homes for the kittens and hopefully will be getting the mama kitty neutered soon so we don't have to have any more kitten issues around the farm areas. But I'm so excited to bring them in the basement, well we have to keep them down there till they're old enough to leave but I'll be able to play with kittens!!!!!!! I'm literally so excited!

Anywho, yup that's pretty much it XD


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

ya, she was really helpful : ) 

and ikr?!?!?! I just came back from my best friends house, and her dog had puppies and I cant even begin to tell you how much I squealed. 

I HAVE MY PAYCHECK!!! Now tommorow morning, I'm gonna go cash it, and then we will see if I have enough gravel, and if I do, then YAY!!! GONNA HAVE MY TANK SET UP.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yay!!!! So excited! 

OMG, I have to say! The feral cat that had kittens in our shed, she let me pet them today! Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can hold them because we have to bring them in soon because I would hate to promise someone a kitten (we found homes for all four of them) and then be like, oh yeah, sorry your kitten was eaten by a fox, nbd.....yeah so I convinced my mom to let us bring them in  So excited!!!!!!

I have a feeling it will kind of freak mama cat out a lot being inside since we don't have formula for the kittens or anything so she'll have to be inside as well. I mean, I accidentally let her in once....whoops, but she just looked around and then stayed by my feet  cutest thing ever!!


----------



## Darkicydevil (Apr 30, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Yay!!!! So excited!
> 
> OMG, I have to say! The feral cat that had kittens in our shed, she let me pet them today! Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can hold them because we have to bring them in soon because I would hate to promise someone a kitten (we found homes for all four of them) and then be like, oh yeah, sorry your kitten was eaten by a fox, nbd.....yeah so I convinced my mom to let us bring them in  So excited!!!!!!
> 
> I have a feeling it will kind of freak mama cat out a lot being inside since we don't have formula for the kittens or anything so she'll have to be inside as well. I mean, I accidentally let her in once....whoops, but she just looked around and then stayed by my feet  cutest thing ever!!


thats awesome! I take care of a stray cat at my moms work, and there are a lot of strays there (one is pregnant) but the one I take care of only likes me it took a really long time for him to trust me and he is extremely wild unlike the rest of them which are more friendly. Anyway, he follows me around and I really wanna try and give him a home but my cat at home is too territorial, so Im trying to figure something out.


----------

