# Slime coat? Fungus? Rot?



## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I just cleaned my girl's water. She's been bloated for a week or so, seemingly with eggs. I just noticed this trailing slime on her dorsal and pectoral fins. It also appears to be trailing from her anal area. There is a slight film on every fin. I've been worried she's had issues with her eggs already, and now it looks like shes shedding her slime coat. 

I keep a catappa leaf in her 5 gallon aquarium. I was treating her with epsom salts for the bloat, just in case she also had something with her swim bladder. She's had floaty butt a while. Good appetite, eating well, not clamping, not lethargic, shes plenty active and happy even. Exploring, even. Hasn't let down her eggs or absorbed them yet. Can the slime coat be connected to eggbound fish? I have no idea what to do. In the 15 minutes I've typed this, the slime trail on her pectoral fins has lengthened to half a centimetre long already. Help?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

pectoral fin slime








anal area slime


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

I notice that there are many small bubbles covering everything in your tank, this most commonly happens just after a water change and indicates that there is large amounts of dissolved gas in your water this may be the cause of your problem.

This is stressful to your fish and can cause them to drop their slime coat. To tackle this problem you should age your water for 24 hours before performing a water change. Simply store the water in a bucket or drum (clean of course) for 24 hours before adding to your fish tank. During the aging process running an air stone in the drum/bucket will ensure that the water is well aerated and may also help.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Guess I should provide more information about my betta's environment. 

5 gallon heated tank.
Temp about 80 degrees farenheit
Water change April 2, used stress zyme + and nutrafin aqua plus to condition water and keep the cycle going. 
There is no filter, Cass absolutely hates currents.
25-50% Water changes every 5 days, depending on my work schedule. 
Change the catappa leaf every 2 or so water changes.
Feed her omega one betta pellets.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

veggiegirl said:


> I notice that there are many small bubbles covering everything in your tank, this most commonly happens just after a water change and indicates that there is large amounts of dissolved gas in your water this may be the cause of your problem.
> 
> This is stressful to your fish and can cause them to drop their slime coat. To tackle this problem you should age your water for 24 hours before performing a water change. Simply store the water in a bucket or drum (clean of course) for 24 hours before adding to your fish tank. During the aging process running an air stone in the drum/bucket will ensure that the water is well aerated and may also help.


Haha this is great advice, I've often considered how I can limit the dissolved gas after changes. The bubbles seem to irritate Cass, she sometimes attacks them or headbutts them while glass surfing. However, I live in a pretty tiny condo unit, and don't actually have a drum that has 5 gallons of volume. I've had the girl for 5 months and she's never shed her coat before, and the dissolved gas has been a fairly constant obstacle for her.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

we can buy a plastic 20L bucket with a lid here for approx $6. Just an idea......
Also I think the amount of gas and gas type can vary throughout the year so still a possible scenario.

Usually fish shed their slime coat due to stress or toxins in the water (if something has been sprayed near their tank, or maybe you forgot to wash your hands really well before the water change? Also ammonia poisoning is a common culprit of fish shedding slime though this is unlikely due to the fact that you just cleaned your tank? 

Anyhow all I could really suggest is doing another water change which would help if a toxin is the culprit. You could check your ammonia levels if you have the test kit. 

If none of that helps then I would probably try aging the water hopefully you could get hold of a bucket....


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah I have one nasty big rubbermaid container that would hold enough, its 27L volume, but I'm hesitant because I don't know how old it is and the plastic container has a smell about it. If toxins in her water are currently stressing her, I'm uncertain that aging water in my plastic container that could leech more nasty toxins would be a great alternative. I'll look for an abs plastic bucket, those I know won't leech. She's still active and most of the slime trails have broken off. Most of the bubbles have also gone away by now, clinging to the corners.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

So I have an update. Most of the slime coat problem is better, but there was still kind of a transparent thread coming from underneath her. Almost looked like it was attached to her ovipositer. It got to be about an inch and a half long this morning, but she has since lost it and now has a new thread there, only about 3mm long. Can't find anything on what this could be, because it sure doesn't look like poop.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm considering it might be an internal parasite. She seems very surly lately, though she's not really acting sick.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

SO we've been trating her for parasites. Frequent water changes, epsom salts, API General Cure, and food soaked in garlic (which she absolutely loves). But she's still clamping a bit and she almost always has that semi-transparent poopy stuff hanging out from underneath her. I'm really not sure what to do, as it has been about five days now...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

It literally looks like a semi-transparent thread hanging out of her...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I took a bunch of pictures. They're a little blurry, but still get the point across...








Any insight would be fantastic... I'm worried about the poor little girl...


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Hmmmm you mentioned that she is loving her food soaked in garlic........is she keeping it down? can you see and normal poops in her tank?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

No normal poops in her tank. But nothing solid spat back out either... Hence why I figured it was parasites. Most there is, is there is the slimy white stuff that appears to have bits of poop in it...


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Hmmm maybe she has Tapeworm....though she does not appear to be thin. If this is the case Praziquantral (sorry no idea on spelling but it is also in dog and cat wormers) would be a good treatment. You can get it specially for fish I think each tablet contains 100mg.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I have no idea. API General Cure is supposed to help fight parasites and worms. But she's gotten worse. She's clamping and sitting at the bottom of her tank, looking very pale. She isn't swimming much and has a chunk of the white/clear stuff sticking out of her. I have no idea what to do and I'm scared for my little girl...

The main ingredients of API GC are 250 mg Metronidazole and 75 mg Praziquantel per packet. So she's getting treated properly. But she's getting worse.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Sounds like she is getting treated with the stuff that I recommended already then....Metronidazole is actually used to treat birds that have a parasitic disease commonly known as canker, it is also used to treat Oscars and other fish that suffer from a condition called hole in the head. 

It seems to be quite a mystery......have you tried treating with triple sulfa at all? It is a pretty good broad spectrum medication and I have had success with it in the past.......just a suggestion sorry if you said you have already used it at some stage.......


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Nope. Been treating her with epsom salts and API general cure because everything points to internal parasites...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Update: Mild pineconing has developed and is visible from all angles. I can't get a bloody photo because she's moving too much and my camera can't focus quickly enough. She has red discolouration on her abdomen where the bloating is the worst (and the pineconing is evident). Just did a water change and added another dose of API general cure and epsom salts and fed her a pellet soaked in garlic. Is dropsy a common symptom of internal parasites?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi noodle. So from what I understand, Cass started out possibly having parasites but General Cure did not help and now she is pineconing but still active.

Dropsy can be a common symptom, yes, if the parasite load is heavy enough. 

What I'm worried about is that she may have developed a secondary bacterial infection because of the damage the parasites have done. The metronidazole in General Cure will help with that to some small degree but an antibiotic that is absorbed easily would be more effective. The only one that is readily available is Maracyn Two (aka, minocycline). Go ahead and continue treating her with the General Cure and if you can, add Maracyn Two as well. Do not use Maracyn Two if it has passed its expiration date; some meds are safe to use but not Maracyn Two. It becomes highly toxic. Also, it will not be as effective if you have a high pH.

Another thing you might try is coating her pellets in a General Cure paste. Use a little bit of tank water and add just enough General Cure powder to make a paste. Add some garlic juice to make it palatable. This will help get the medication right to the source of the troubles.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Thank you so much Sakura! Going to start right away with the food, and see if I can track down Maracyn Two. Do you get it from pet stores? Some of that stuff is so hard to find up here!

EDIT: Nevermind. They carry it at Petsmart. I'll get it today or tomorrow and start her on her medicated food immediately.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, you should be able to get Maracyn Two from Petsmart or a local fish store. Good luck!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Is it safe to have her on so many medications at once though? Or should we treat her with Maracyn Two in her water with no General Cure, but use the General Cure for her food?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's safe to combine those two medications and actually, it's a mild combination compared to some other meds that used to be on the market.  But treating her with just the Maracyn Two and feeding General Cure works well too and any time a fish doesn't have to be in a lot of meds, the better.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Thank you so much. <3 Gotta get my babygirl better. :3 
You rock so much.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'll definitely be rooting for her.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Okay, I've got an 8 pack of Maracyn Two. I'm a little fuzzy on the package instructions for dosage. Here's word for word...

*"First day, add the contents of 2 packets per 10 gallons of water. Second through fifth day, add 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Repeat this 5 day treatment only once if needed."*

So, it says *add* packets, but doesn't mention to do any water changes. 
So.... what kind of water changes should I be making? Does Maracyn Two need to be built up in the water to work? Or will simply "adding" more medication each day overdose and kill my fish?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Those instructions are written for a 10gal where the medicine would be absorbed or would dissipate over time, so adding more medicine would be fine. We can adjust the dosage and instructions for her size tank.

Is she being treated in her 5gal? If so, the safest way to do this is to use the 5 cup method. Find something that will hold 5 cups of dechlorinated water and add 1 packet. Mix well. Now add 1/2 cup of medicated water per gallon of tank water, so pour in 2.5 cups of medicated water.

This is the bummer part. Maracyn Two becomes toxic if it just sits so you'll have to throw the unused portion. I know, it's a major waste. 

Now you probably would be just fine if you added a new dosage every day like the instructions for a 10gal but if you want to be on the safe side, do a 20% water change every day before redosing. Do this for 5 days.

If at any time she starts to show distress, get her into clean, non-medicated water immediately.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Okay, thanks. I'll probably err on the safe side, since I have no filter to help the medicine dissipate, and do 20% changes daily. And yes, I'm treating her in the 5 gallon. Her tiny ISO tank is quite difficult to measure 10 gallon instructions down to. 
Her dropsy is more apparent now than it was at noon. I can see raised scales down to her tail, where before it was localized to her abdomen. I sure hope I caught this early enough


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

How long will it take for spiking to disappear if the treatment was indeed administered in time? >_< This waiting is killing me.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

So Cass is a little more happy today, though the swelling is still bad. Haven't seen the stringy poop yet today. She's eating her API/Garlic soaked pellets with gusto, sending the medicine to the source. She's more personable today. Will keep you updated as things develop.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

The pineconing is still prevalent. It doesn't appear to have gotten any worse from last night, but the scales from her gills to her tail are all lifted, noticeably when seen above and from her posterior.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm sorry she isn't doing well, but it sounds like she is getting a bit better since her personality has improved and she is eating


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Cass' Dropsy has gotten worse overnight. This morning she is pinecones all over, she's breathing heavily, and she only ate one medicated, garlic'd pellet before she ran away from me. Now she won't even look at me... I have no idea what to do. I can barely do anything because I'm crying, and I have no idea what the hell I can do because Kanaplex is apparently not sold in stores. Please help me... I don't want my little girl to die...


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

can you order it online? I am soooo sorry this is happening with her


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah. Two weeks from here. Apparently Kanaplex can't bother to sell their miracle cure in stores and can't ship in less than two weeks. So I just have to watch Cass get worse... The way she's looking now she might not even make it through the night...


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

omg that is terrible!! have you tried ebay or kijiji or another website?


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

i checked amazon, they don't have availability. try this web site see how long shipping would take http://www.clicshop.com/Scripts/Car...com/en/aquarium-supplies/c7165/p17105966.html


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

They have it on the other side of the city. Someone gets it brought in. Two things of it left. It's a two hour trip there, two hour back. But I've gotta do it. Can't let my bloody fish down.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

do it! definitely! can they put it on hold for you? good luck! http://www.jlaquatics.com/info/386/Fish+Bacterial+Medications+&+Treatments.html this website ships within a couple days. I've used them before.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah it's on hold and I'm on my way already. Doesn't look like you can mix Maracyn Two and Kanaplex though. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't believe so. But I believe kanaplex is one of the strongest you can get so it should do the job... hopefully. Maybe pm Sakura8? She'd be able to give you a quick answer on the mixing question! Good Luck!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Tried to PM. >_< No answer thusfar.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

well maybe by the time you get back with this medicine she will respond.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I just don't get what made this happen. Other people treat with the same things, the same way, and have their fish recover within days. And then Cass gets the illness for seemingly no reason, then the treatment seems to make her worse.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

Its one of those mysteries. Its like ppl have Bettas in tiny bowls or vases and clean the water like once a month and their fish some how live for years with out disease. Then ppl like us take good care of our fish and they get sick suddenly with no reason! It makes no sense at all.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sure doesn't. It's absolutely awful. Some people mistreat their bettas and treat them like crap, cooped up in a little cup. Then some people spend $115 on an aquarium and then money for the top of the line food, decorations, aeration, and medication, and their fish are the ones who get severe illnesses. It's so bloody unfair.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

Exactly! I've spent so much money on Galileo on aquarium and the perfect decor and silk plants. I've spent time upon time researching for the best care and keeping his water pristine. But no matter  We are just the unlucky ones. I hope you get the medicine and Cass responds to it!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Got the medicine. On the way home. Thank you for your kind words. Seems I'm breaking down even more than my fish is. Gotta try and stay strong for her.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm here if you need an ear/eye! Have a safe trip home! Thats right, keep it together for her!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Home. Cleaning her tank top to bottom including all decorations and gravel. Going to be about half an hour before her tank's ready but the dosage on Kanaplex is so low I've gotta haver her in her 5 gallon to be able to measure it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Noodle, you can do half a scoop for 1 gallon. How is she doing?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She's still pinecony as heck. Got her acclimatizing for another 10-15 minutes and then she'll be good to go in her medicated tank. The dosage seems so small, it's hard to believe it's supposed to help so much. So yeah, she's going to be in Kanaplex, API General Cure (those two apparently don't interact at all) and Epsom Salt.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, General Cure and Kanaplex can be combined safely. If she will eat, you can continue feeding her medicated food only use Kanaplex.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She was really energetic when we put her in, swam all over the place. But after about two hours she started resting at the bottom on the gravel, swimming around at the back every so often but mostly just going up for air. Something else odd, she's using her tail much more to swim today. Like, more than she ever has. Her tail fin is always waving around to keep her going...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

No improvement today. She's really lethargic, doesn't want to eat, her scales are still pineconing quite bad, and she is breathing quite heavily. She's still swimming strangely too. I don't know how many days of treatment with kanaplex is the maximum before I should see signs of improvements...


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

I think 3 is the magic number. Maybe she's just reacting to the medicine. Sometimes antibiotics can make us feel worse before we get better.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She's even having trouble staying afloat. She wobbles all over and uses her little bottom fins just to stay steady... I just keep sobbing watching her trying to get around... This bloody treatment doesn't seem to be doing anything for her but prolonging her suffering...


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Oh noodle I am so sorry to hear that your poor girl is so unwell. Some times no matter what we do we just can't save them. You have really done your best for her now we just need to give the medication a chance to work. Know that even if the worst happens you are such a wonderful person for trying so hard to help her. I am sure she appreciates your dedication she is lucky to have such a thoughtful caring owner like you


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

veggiegirl said:


> Oh noodle I am so sorry to hear that your poor girl is so unwell. Some times no matter what we do we just can't save them. You have really done your best for her now we just need to give the medication a chance to work. Know that even if the worst happens you are such a wonderful person for trying so hard to help her. I am sure she appreciates your dedication she is lucky to have such a thoughtful caring owner like you


This^^^

how is she doing?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Not a lot of change. She is still trying to eat, but she noms it then spits it out and watches it sink. She finally pooped today, though it was the clear-ish parasite-ish poop. Still pineconing bad, still not very social. She spends most of her time sitting on the gravel or floating looking up at the surface. She's still swimming kinda odd too. Really flitting her tail fin around, which she never did before. Today is water change day, though. She's hanging in there longer than a lot of fish that have dropsy, so I'm trying to keep hope she'll bounce back.


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

Its good that she pooped. At least she is passing waste!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah... No improvement on the wretched dropsy though. What a bloody horrible illness...


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## Jexx (Feb 2, 2013)

I know


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

No improvement at all, even after 2 doses of kanaplex and sitting at the "magic 4" day. That puts her at 6 days with dropsy.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

We did the right thing and put Cass to sleep this morning... It was honestly one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life... I'm going to close this thread, if possible, now... Her suffering and struggling is finally over and she can surf the glass on the other side of things... If you would like to pay your respects, I have made a thread here:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=153801 
Thank you all for your love and support. Especially Sakura for her wonderful, kind words and suggestions through this horrible time, and for Rachel giving all of her support when her fish is going through a similar illness. I really hope your little one makes it, hon!


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