# How do you deal with people?



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

So browsing through Facebook tonight, I remembered a little situation that came up between my friend and I long before I owned Bettas. Anyways, she was keeping her fish in these:





































Her excuse is:


> I have 4 and these Lil set ups are 4 times larger that what they were in at the pet store. They were in sipping cups! They originate in very small, shallow murky puddles of rice patties in foreign countries.


And I jokingly said "I feel your fishes pain" to which she replied "Huh?" and then I said "I feel their pain, I live in an apartment not big enough for humans, like that drinking cup for fish"

*Facepalm* How do you even... uh... what... what do you do with these people?!? No space, heater, plant, hiding place nothing... and she's clearly living in a basement.

I'm tempted to ask her if they are even alive but after this she stopped talking to me.

Anyways I wanted to rant  Cause no one else understands how cruel this is.


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## Vaughan06 (Aug 9, 2011)

I understand your frustration, but keep in mind how is she suppose to know?

I bought my first Betta while working in the Pet Section at Walmart. All I knew was 1) They come in small bowls. 2) I feed them twice a day.

That was ALL I knew. I had originally bought a 1/2 gallon tank, but before I even put the Betta in it my family had me buy a 2.5 gallon (my Betta is lucky he got started off well).

The sad reality is that people see these fish in cups looking healthy and I've even seen bubble nests, so they immediately think small tanks are fine.

Stores need to adopt a policy that has the CORRECT information posted for Bettas.


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## Jrf456 (Jun 23, 2011)

Eh.. It's a hard process, lol.

My bettas don't have heaters, I keep 'em stored for the winter, otherwise they'd fry in our weather!

But yeah.. These are rediculous. It makes me sick to think that people would actually do this to a living creature. How would they like it to be confined in something like this for their lives? I say it like this to these type of idiots.. Think of their bowls/tanks as their world. Other than water changes, they never leave this world. Picture living in an empty world, with a few pebbles on your floor, and that's it.

I will admit.. I'm sad I don't have the biggest tanks for mine.. They're all in varied 1.5-2 gallon vases, but I line them all with matching black pebbles, a few large shiny white rocks (I do these two to match the colors of my room, white walls and a black and white NYC theme) and they each have a cave to suit their personality, two fake plants (real ones always die for me :l) and live happily.

Another thing that bothers me are the people who think fish don't need good water changes, especially bettas. 

I was originally told to do a 10% change EVERY MONTH for my first bowl, a 1.5 gallon vase. I now do 100% changes 2x a week, and a thorough inspection every day of their vases.

I've let my anger get the worst of me and cursed out a Petco worker who threw an alive tail-biter in the trash, just because he had a bitten up tail. 

I've yelled at Walmart managers who didn't care their betta cups were YELLOW. 

I've been to a fish farm that sells them in baby food jars and left a lovely note in their mailbox..

I definitely know how you feel.. If only everyone with the usual fish stereotypes could join this site and get some logic into their dull minds.

End of rant-post.


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## Loralyn94 (Jul 22, 2011)

I feel your pain, I hate to see people do this to fish. Though I've seen and heard of worse. People putting them in pickle jars with nothing in them feeding them once a day how ever much they felt they needed and then only changing the water when it was too cloudy to see through or the smell was too much for them. 

I dont see why or how people do this, its like you wouldnt think to let your dog life in a too small wire cage and not clean out his urine or feces until it was too gross to look at or smelled to badly.


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

It is hard - some just don't care about how they are supposed to be kept. They're just pretty, moving decorations.

My neighbor ... I'm teaching her. Though she still insists that all she has to do is top off evap water and never actually change water. Nothing I say helps. I did get her to keep heaters in the tanks though...


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## hmckin20 (Jul 30, 2011)

it's really difficult, since i'm a control freak anyway and i just want to grab fish out of people's hands and take them home and treat them right. but it is the stores for promoting ignorance of proper conditions, and treating betta like they're accessories you put on your desk and ignore. 

when i got fitz, i knew ~nothing~ about bettas. i put him in a bowl, no heater or filter or plants or anything, and left his food in there a lot. but the store didn't tell me anything else about maintenance. he lost his color and died, and i already had pierce and my mom got me flair after fitz died and then flair lost all of his color under the same conditions, and that's when i decided to do research, boom, two ten gal tanks and one two gal tank later, happy fish and an informed owner. stores don't advocate proper betta treatment. 


but aww, i feel for these little fish. they do not look happy. ):


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

See when I got my first Betta years ago (a female cambodian) I didn't have the internet like you do today. I got a 1g tank with a hood and light, few fake plants and a heater. She was a centerpiece in my home, but she was treated great. I even drove 5 hours one way to get the perfect food for her. I was clueless on Bettas. When I got Joey, he got the same set up and moved into my 29g cycled with Silver Dollars. Even when I recently got Venom, he was in a 1g and I knew to upgrade him before I even joined this site. I dunno, she was there for the first two Bettas. But what gets me is she KNOWS animals are my life, she knows my animals get the best I can afford. She knows my rats are taken care of, she ended up dumping hers on me. But what really gets me is she has the audacity to even think she knows more about them than me..... any animal really.

Quite upsetting. I wish I could take these fish here with me  I think she left them behind with her ex anyways.. she never takes pets with her after a break up.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

*Facepalm* I have no friends that keep fish but I have realised if other people tap on my tank glass or try to feed my fish, I go nuts and yell at them.. I think if I knew someone keeping fish this way, I'd be sarcastic till they get the picture or steal the fish or yell and take the fish by force (<not condoning this) -__-.. From sipping cups to water glasses.. Yay.
What you said makes complete sense Pitluvs! Its not what you know, it what makes sense. if someone told me to put a betta in a bowl before i knew about them, I'd still say no (and I did) because common sense doesn't permit me to do something like that! A fish needs space, you can SEE it and say that! X(


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

my neighgor has a 2yr old VT 2 3/4 long with fins no conditioner (never was told about it until i said something).lives in a vase bit less than a .5g. fins arent good at all. dont ask me how it survived 2 years without conditioner. gh is probably 200ppm and kh 20 if there is no big discrepancy with the tap water.

water changes take a total of a minute, they include a toilet sink plugged and unplugged, a yogurt container and dumping the fish in the water w/o acclimation. she does change the water every 2 day do there is something half decent. i dont bother to correct her, wont do any changes. she thinks the fish is happy when he's struggling against the current when manhandled by the yogurt container and vase during WC. she's lost a few betta to the bathroom sink, didnt ask how many.


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

Oh god, those fish look like they're caught in no mans land and can't find their way out ;__;
I'm trying to teach one of my closest friends how to treat fish.. She has a female betta, and the bowl it's in is less than a gallon... Although, she's one of those types of people where if she doesn't really care or agree, then it's like talking to a brick wall. While I'm in the process of upgrading to a 5g, I told her she could have my 1.5g since I know it would be better for her fish than what it has now... Later on that day at the pet store while looking at fish, one of the first things that comes out of her mouth when we start leaving the isle is "I'm gonna get more fish!" I tried telling her that the tank isn't gonna be big enough, and her reply was "Well, you're giving me that other tank, right?" *sigh* I swear... I spent about 30 minutes beforehand explaining how it's best to follow the inch-per'gallon rule at minimum and alllll kinds of other stuff about fish, and this is her reply... -.- Pet stores really do need to start displaying their fish in the manner that they should.... Gives other people bad ideas, thinking it's okay to have bettas in small cups, or about over 50 goldfish to a 10g tank... but hey, a good lot of people only want animals because they're pretty or cool looking without the slightest notion of responsibility... Why? Usually because they're animals and apparently us as humans are of a different species... which I find very hard to believe with the way most people act now-or-days...


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

People don't like being told they are wrong, it's a fact of life... Sigh. Maybe we could just tell them hey, you have to check out this site on bettas it's totally awesome etc! Open it and let them just get guilted into getting their betta proper care! Muahaha!!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

all you can do, is show them how happy bettas are when in proper tanks. and, suggest they get bigger tanks, because the bettas love space. i've seen how much a betta can change when put in a larger tank, after being in a small tank, so i know that bigger is better(in most cases. i DO have a betta who's scared of larger tanks. xD).


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

fightergirl: Well, most cases, not all people.. Most just have a "God complex" (which I mean as a term for people in general. So sorry if people get offended by it, but that's not what I'm intending) and need to learn a bit of humility here and there.. I think the site would definately be a good thing to show, but it does depend on the person and if they really care about the animal or if they just want them for decor....
Luimeril: Yeah, I'm sure that'll help, too.. Sometimes people just need visual and they get the idea ^.^ Which is usually why most people think it's okay for them to be in small jars in the first place... damn you pet stores that only sell them in little cups! >.< I'm sure your betta is afraid of being in a large tank because it's so accustomed in being in a small cup, so being in 'open water' makes it feel vulnerable.. >.>
I suppose another thing that would help is whenever people say "Eh, they do fine in little cups! See? It's still alive!" you could say "Just because it's surviving doesn't mean it's living. There are things worse than death, and I'm sure being confined in a small space only big enough to turn circles in day after day, nothing of comfort like plants or something to hide in like they would in the wild is at the top of the list for bettas. Hell, even a human being..."


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## hmckin20 (Jul 30, 2011)

nel3 said:


> she's lost a few betta to the bathroom sink, didnt ask how many.


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

xD Nice... I'm with ya there, hmckin


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Lolololololol!!!!


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## hodgepodgen (Feb 25, 2011)

Well those are very zen like, but well you know. 

Heaters, well it depends on where you live. I don't use heaters in the summer because the avg temp is 79 degrees. 

And some bettas prefer smaller to bigger tanks and vice versa. 

I think we need to keep an open mind and teach people how to care for a betta in a helpful way. Not yell at them and go off on a rant storm. I see that a lot on these forums unfortunately. Its counter productive. XP


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

hodgepodgen said:


> Well those are very zen like, but well you know.
> 
> Heaters, well it depends on where you live. I don't use heaters in the summer because the avg temp is 79 degrees.
> 
> ...


I agree ^.^ But sometimes it just gets frustrating when people don't listen.. especially when it's someone like your best friend (in my case) and no matter how politely you try to put it, no matter how helpful it actually is, sometimes people just don't listen... So while I don't like yelling about certain situations like this and I'd rather have something done about it than whine, it's always nice, and sometimes better, to get it off your chest.. Which is pretty much what I'm doing on this thread, but I'm still trying to be helpful and get my friend to start treating her betta as a living thing that deserves respect ^.^


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## hmckin20 (Jul 30, 2011)

^ the above post




definitely approach a person (who may be unintentionally harming or mistreating their fish) with kindness and understanding. maybe they just don't know any better. but then there are the people who just don't care, or become defensive/insulted whenever you offer a few tips, and at that point you have to be a little frustrated / want to rant. especially when it continues and lessens the value of the fish's life.

i don't use heaters on all of my tanks (yet) either. i have one for p&f's ten gal and i'm getting one for h&c's ten gal tomorrow, but i'm still debating whether or not to get one for demi's two gal. either way, it's not a pressing matter. it's pretty warm here and the temp stays in the general range it should.


and hehe that GIF is perfect for saying things. :3


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Language, Dearhearts, please...on this family forum. <p>
<p>
It's not the kids I'm worried about; it's us old folks with tender sensibilities<p>
<p>
Thank you.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Draug Isilme said:


> Luimeril: Yeah, I'm sure that'll help, too.. Sometimes people just need visual and they get the idea ^.^ Which is usually why most people think it's okay for them to be in small jars in the first place... damn you pet stores that only sell them in little cups! >.< I'm sure your betta is afraid of being in a large tank because it's so accustomed in being in a small cup, so being in 'open water' makes it feel vulnerable.. >.>



actually, Lulu lived in a mini-sorority in one of the tanks in back, with a few other girls and some cute little catfish, so it's not that she's scared of it because she was in a cup. i've had her over a year, but you'd think she'd LOVE the space. i even upgraded her a half a gallon, from a 1 to a 1.5, and she freaked out and hid. i guess she just likes her triangle tank better. *shrugs*

i adore taking pictures of my bettas. i have a whole album on my Facebook full of them! people love how happy and bright they are, and i just love telling people about how well they do in larger tanks. my mom's betta, Counter Buddy, was upgraded from one gallon, to 10 gallons, and he LOVES it. he adores hanging out in the plants up top the most(they dislodged when i put water in, and just float about. xD i've found that my bettas LOVE floating plants, so i left them. :d in fact, Spy was named as such because she hides out all the time in teh plants. x3c).


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

It's funny, I posted a rant thread about something similar a week or so ago. A girl I know has two betta's and while she has them in a ten gallon tank....

oh yeah, both in a ten gallon. A male and female. With no heater. And no filter. 

Oh, and only feeds them flakes.

But this is an upgrade from the goldfish bowl she had the male and another female in a week prior.

-_-

I tried to say something and she told me she knew what she was doing and I needed to stop being a know it all. So I stopped. Both fish are probably gone by now  The female was all kinds of stress striped.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

people don't like being told they're wrong. that's why, you gotta ninja the info in. say something like "that's a wonderful upgrade! but, bettas are territorial, and don't like another being in their space. your bettas may either fight, or you'll end up with dozens of babies, and they need special care. unless you want that, i'd, personally, divide the tank into two halves and keep them apart." x:


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> actually, Lulu lived in a mini-sorority in one of the tanks in back, with a few other girls and some cute little catfish, so it's not that she's scared of it because she was in a cup. i've had her over a year, but you'd think she'd LOVE the space. i even upgraded her a half a gallon, from a 1 to a 1.5, and she freaked out and hid. i guess she just likes her triangle tank better. *shrugs*
> 
> i adore taking pictures of my bettas. i have a whole album on my Facebook full of them! people love how happy and bright they are, and i just love telling people about how well they do in larger tanks. my mom's betta, Counter Buddy, was upgraded from one gallon, to 10 gallons, and he LOVES it. he adores hanging out in the plants up top the most(they dislodged when i put water in, and just float about. xD i've found that my bettas LOVE floating plants, so i left them. :d in fact, Spy was named as such because she hides out all the time in teh plants. x3c).


Ah, okay ^.^ I suppose this is definately one of those examples where fish do prefer specific settings depending on the fishes personality. And hey, I'd say that's when it is okay to have a betta in a small tank... Otherwise, it'd probably stress out and kill itself from too much of it...


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

NCPanthersgurl said:


> It's funny, I posted a rant thread about something similar a week or so ago. A girl I know has two betta's and while she has them in a ten gallon tank....
> 
> oh yeah, both in a ten gallon. A male and female. With no heater. And no filter.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's uber obnoxious when people say things like "stop being a know it all," but I'm assuming it's just a defense mechanism because she didn't have much else to say in her defense... *shrugs* If they are gone, hopefully that girl will get some sense and take in what you said into account instead of tanking her own advice and being a 'Know-it-all' herself. And hey, if it ever comes up again, you can always take her methods into question and ask where she came to 'know' what she knows about bettas and say you actually took the time to go to places like this great betta forum to get the advice needed from people who have had experiences with bettas and the sort ^.^ Dunno if this is the reason exactly why your on this site, but I'm assuming so.. if not >.> yeah....


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> people don't like being told they're wrong. that's why, you gotta ninja the info in. say something like "that's a wonderful upgrade! but, bettas are territorial, and don't like another being in their space. your bettas may either fight, or you'll end up with dozens of babies, and they need special care. unless you want that, i'd, personally, divide the tank into two halves and keep them apart." x:


+1 for the ninja'd info! ^.^


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

as far as the heater topic goes - I hate it when a pet store employee goes out of her way to tell me incorrect information. I was checking out with a 10G tank kit that came with a heater and a betta to add to my sorority. She told me bettas don't need heaters - its in their care sheet. This was at Petco. I'm looking at their care sheet online right now and a heater is on their checklist of things you'll need. they also recommend a betta book. Anyhow, I told her, "Yes, bettas need heaters, they're tropical fish. They don't really need them right now, since its 100 degrees outside". 
but honestly I have all my heaters going and its keeping my tanks at 78. I accidentally forgot to plug in Joey's heater a few days ago and looked at his thermometer and it was down to 72-74. So even in 100 degree Texas summers, with air condititioning it can get too cold for bettas without heaters, especially at night.


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

xD I think you were the same person I read that from a different thread.. After reading that the first time, I so took one of the pamphlets of bettas at the Petsmart store and read through it! It really does have a heater listed on it! I believe it even says that if you have an unheated bowl then the room temperature must remain above 72 degrees. Kinda makes me wonder if she actually read it or if she only took certain key parts of they pamphlet and thought it was okay... Even so, stuff like this is when companies need to make sure they train their employees the right way and make sure that they're loaded with the right information... but I suppose one of the reasons why they don't care too much is so that way the uninformed/misinformed customers will go home with products they bought from the store, and after a few months or more/less, come right back to the store and buy a new fish and something else they might've realized they needed...


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

Draug Isilme said:


> xD I think you were the same person I read that from a different thread.. After reading that the first time, I so took one of the pamphlets of bettas at the Petsmart store and read through it! It really does have a heater listed on it! I believe it even says that if you have an unheated bowl then the room temperature must remain above 72 degrees. Kinda makes me wonder if she actually read it or if she only took certain key parts of they pamphlet and thought it was okay... Even so, stuff like this is when companies need to make sure they train their employees the right way and make sure that they're loaded with the right information... but I suppose one of the reasons why they don't care too much is so that way the uninformed/misinformed customers will go home with products they bought from the store, and after a few months or more/less, come right back to the store and buy a new fish and something else they might've realized they needed...


Exactly. I'm not sure about Petsmart. I haven't checked on their caresheet. I'm not a fan of how they care for their bettas. I was at Petco when this lady was telling me this and other than that situation, I'm pretty satisfied with how they care for their fish. I want to go back to that store tho, and tell that lady "I hope you're not telling every person that buys a betta that they dont need a heater!"


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

hmckin20 said:


>


i didnt bother asking bc i didnt want to know just how bad she was with betta. its like avoiding a walmart you know has sick/dead betta. im sure most of theose betta went BC she didnt plug the sink. dont want to know anymore than that myself.


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## NCPanthersgurl (Jul 13, 2011)

Ha, okay so I have a pet store employee story. Guy checking out my fish asked me if I wanted them in a bag together. I'm like uh, no, I'll take them. You can't put them side by side like that, they're both male. He's like, no it's fine. They sell mirrors to make them flare. I said, yeah they do. Because it's considered a form of exercise, and helps keep them from getting stressed from boredom...

He didn't have anything to say after that.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i actually have a friend who comes to me for advice on her bettas. she keeps them in one gallons(except one, who has a larger tanks because his fins are so HUGE), but not only does she keep up with water changes, but she lives in Texas, and it's apparently hot over there. x:

i dream of the day i can help someone out at the pet store. x: the bettas sell well, because lately no one's there longer than a week(they get new bettas in every Wed. and guess where i'm going today? ), but no one even looks at then while i'm there, so i don't get to talk. D:


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## hmckin20 (Jul 30, 2011)

nel3 said:


> i didnt bother asking bc i didnt want to know just how bad she was with betta. its like avoiding a walmart you know has sick/dead betta. im sure most of theose betta went BC she didnt plug the sink. dont want to know anymore than that myself.



ohman i understand completely. i wouldn't ask anymore either. i'd have a fit if i lost a betta to the drain though.. and wouldn't make the mistake twice. 
not to be getting up on a high horse or whatever though, cause we all obviously make mistakes.


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

Hey, if it makes ya'll feel better, my friend is beginning to warm up to actually taking care of bettas correctly ^.^ I finally convinced her that the 1.5g I'm giving her should most definately be used for the betta she has now and coaxing her to buy her a cave for it as well! It's still not going to be the greatest situation for the betta 'cause I'm sure she won't keep up with water changes just yet -.- but I know it'll help that poor femmie betta she has and hopefully I'll get get it to where my friend will actually start respecting the breed and treat it like a living creature than a wall ornament! One step at a time, I suppose...


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## Banicks (Aug 20, 2011)

Receptionists at my work bought 2 goldfish in an ornamental bowl, they didn’t even last a week. I figured it was an ammonia related problem 

To my horror I now find a glass portioned tank with Betta on one side and goldfish on the other! The poor guy is flaring like crazy I reckon the only time he stops is when he gets exhausted and floats to the bottom. I asked them if they had water conditioner and were changing 100% a day. They said they’re trying to, but I don’t hold much hope for either of them.

I’m thinking about ninja’ing him one day on the way home and saving him. But I only have room for 1 tank at this time. I hope he makes it.

I think the biggest problem with Betta’s are the myths and misinformation that comes from fish store owners and just general information. Even in Australia the pet stores have them kept in small containers half full. I have only seen two stores keeping them relatively well in a glass container that would be considered a .5g to 1g, the latter was where I purchased Victor.

What surprised me even more, was that we have a ‘Dr pet specialist’ TV celebrity who does a weekly spot on different pets. One week it was the Betta, and it was obvious to see that little to no effort was put into researching for the little fellas – and through this method the myths and misinformation was spread further. Only now, as previously posted, everyone is after one for the ease of ‘set and forget’ pet that looks like a pretty accessory.

Leaving the myths and misinformation alone (something that will always exist as the justification for the bad treatment) – we can then concentrate on the people trying to purchase them. Let’s be honest, we humans as a species are lazy and put little effort into any acts of selflessness on average, particularly if it requires pre-thought, preparation or commitment. Betta’s are advertised as a ‘lazy pet’ – small container required, feed once a day, change water once a month! Beauty if you’re a lazy larrikin who wants a no brainer pet. But then your responsibility cap needs to be put on past the intro myths. I and many others on these forums obviously have a large cap, where we don’t believe everything we read, and if we do, we read the fine print before we buy. We research in shallow and eventually to in depth to ensure this is not something we’re going to regret or cause pain and or discomfort to something living.

Of course, it is highly possible that some buyers purchase a Betta on the pretence that they are saving the little guys from a dull and diseased death in their little containers, in the corner of a pet store or aquarium. Yes, this is true I suppose, a crummy existence to only just surviving is a move upwards for them. But humans are capable of so much more compassion, and it’s not like the little guys cost a lot in the long run. If you don’t have any equipment the outlay can be more than expected from the myths, but really it’s not that bad. When you see the reaction and love and personality your Betta develops from your kindness, the expense is worth it.

But perhaps if you can’t justify the expense, a Betta isn’t for you. Perhaps a Dog, or a Cat or a Lizard is more your thing. Buy try costing up those things in the long run as well as an initial outlay! A pet inherently means responsibility, we humans are the dominant species and our pets rely on us to live and provide them with conditions as close to possible as money, effort and good will can provide.

I’ll be honest, when the thought of me getting a Betta crossed my mind around 2 weeks ago, I thought it was a case of get the small tank, nice and easy and the fish. But the responsible person in me wanted information to ensure he lived happily as I could provide. If it was a case of I couldn’t provide the necessary, I wasn’t going to get him. But researching and even these forums alone display that it isn’t difficult to make a Betta a happy little fella – sure you can’t save them all, and sometimes things happen outside of your control. But if you gave it 100%, you should feel good about yourself regardless of the result.

I’m feeling good and I’ve only had Victor for 3 days now, he is swimming happily and I will continue to do my best to ensure he stays that way. One thing to remember is that like humans in life, we’re not all given the same chances or environments. It’s what we do with those chances and how we treat others that matters! Humans and Bettas alike!

As they say in the RSPCA – all creatures great and small.


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## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

+1 Banicks! Dig the hat, btw ^.~ I want it!


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