# Infusoria/green water questions



## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Ok I have not started to breed as of yet but for laughs I wanted to make a culture of green water and Infusoria.

The live food cultures are the scariest things for me because when I do find a pair to breed I am terrified I will end up with fry and dead cultures of food. (Or somehow contaminated cultures) I figured this is probably the only culture I could test out that won't cost me anything.

From what I understand I need:

*1)* A container for the culture.

Question: Does this container need to be clear glass or can a semi clear plastic work in its place such as deli type containers?

Question: What size container is best to use for the culture if you intend to use it on one betta spawn?

*2)* Dechlorinated water

*3)* A lettuce leaf or some kind of veggie peels that are blanched in water to make it wilt.

Question: Is there any kind of veggie peels or old vegetables that might prove to be toxic to fry when left rotting in the culture since you end up using water directly from this container?

*4)* Ammonia 

Question: Should I use liquid ammonia or should I use a few crushed betta pellets? If I use liquid how much do you think I should add per container size?

*5)* Some liquid plant food to start algae for the green water. A site said Miracle Grow for regular plants. 

Question: Is this safe for fry? It also didn't say how much to add to the container.

Question: I have Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food and algae seems to love this stuff. Should I put a small amount in the container to start a big algae bloom? (It's the kind of algae that coats everything in a thick green choking slime.)

*6)* Set in sunlight outside, or inside by a windowsill

Question: About how long do you have to wait for the creepy crawlies to populate the culture?

Question: In case of very happy algae should the large globs of it be removed or does the infusoria feed off it?

Question: If something like this is used for your fry tank do you just siphon some of the water out of the container and squirt it into the tank being careful not to get any globs of algae or decayed lettuce?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Cheaper dark plastic 5g buckets will do. But if you want to spawn in that tub, I'd suggest it be at least 10g. IMO shallow is better than deep - a 13g regular aquarium can sustain about 100 newly hatched fry. A 12g shallow 30cm dark plastic tub (don't know what they're called) can sustain over 300 fry.

I treat the water as if my bettas are going in there. Decaying matter will produce natural ammonia so I don't add any. Direct sunlight will nurture algae. Aquatic plants helps the whole cycle.

All decaying organic matter will poison fish. Use vegies that are not fiber like (?) because you will be left with a lot of stringy leftover. I prefer something that can totally decay. Nowadays I use tons of daphnia and some live tubifex worms, allow the daphnia to die off (there will always be some, but not enough to feed a whole batch of fry). Decaying organic substance will bring in an assortment of tiny creatures. Live tubifex will also help feed them these critters. 

I age my water up to 3 weeks outside and about 1 hour of direct sunlight. Often I age it longer (but my males go in after 3 weeks to avoid mosq. out break). I used to siphon gunk from the floor before breeding. Nowadays I leave it as it is, siphon 30 - 50% water and refill. Then breed.

As long as hair/thread algae don't grow, I leave everything as they are. My water doesn't become green - only the tub's walls (during the first 2 weeks I often cover the tub if it rains to ensure decaying matter doesn't get washed out). If water do become green and there is an algae outbreak, for some reason, algae will eventually clear on its own. It may take between 3 - 8 weeks (I don't know how they work so I can't explain the process)

IMO infusoria, daphnia, and what ever micro critters you have in there will feed off the algae, specially when organic matter has all been decomposed. 

I find fry grows faster in these water. Fry will survive even if I don't feed them (my tubs are heavily planted plus I now have bad eyesight thus often can't see if there is fry). I feed egg yolk once a day but IMO micro critters eat them, not fry. In 5 - 8 days fry wil be big enough for me to add tiny newly hatched daphnia.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm sorry I made my post so long, and thank you Indjo. I am going to print up your information right now and keep it with my literature.

I will not worry about extra ammonia.

I also need to use containers I can carry around. Unless I can do this with an incandescent 10 gallon aquarium light, I can't do it directly in an aquarium. 

I am not sure when I will find my first pair, it could be in the middle of winter. Here that means maybe up to -30 below 0 oF.

I don't want to get any live cultures yet. (like daphinia because I would have to keep everything alive for I don't know how long.) But I will make sure to make enough small containers to fill at least a 10 gallon aquarium when the time comes.

I'm still very confused though on how people do this in small containers all year long

Edit to add: 

I can't use a dark bucket in a windowsill right? But I can outside in the sun? Would semi clear containers work in a windowsill?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure how it'll work indoors - micro critter culturing. But if you already have a culture and keep them warm enough (space heater), you should be able to keep them alive through winter. If not, make new cultures every spring to use in late spring/early summer.

As long as sunlight can shine inside the bucket/tub, dark plastic will do. But semi clear containers are better.

What is an incandescent light? My fish area is under a roof and only gets regular lights from the ceiling at night. During the day the grow outs, solitary tanks, and some breeding tubs don't get direct sunlight (Only some of my breeding tubs were moved to direct sunlight). But they all work just the same. 

Wanted to add that I do a 50% water change every week. If I do too much WC, I will lose the beneficial micro organism. But too few will stunt their growth. Smaller breeding containers get more WC - if possible I add aged water from one of an unused but ready tub.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

My incandescent aquarium hood takes two of these bulbs:









http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-Aga-In...YMU2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1339445284&sr=8-4

They give off an orange light. It would be the only light my 10 gallon would be able to get. I don't know if this would be enough light to do this right in a 10 gallon aquarium? Each bulb is 15 watts. After research I found if the bulbs get old it can trigger an algae problem in a tank. If I just used the water for micro critters this may be a bonus? (I don't know)

I have a container outside. So far all I have is some tiny mosquito larvae. I put some snails in the container too. They seem to be doing well. I have a water lettuce floating on top and a iceburg lettuce leaf in the bottom of the container.

If I can get this to work I will pick up a daphina culture.

I am not sure if I want to try tubifex worms yet. I am unsure of how to clean them properly before adding them to a tank. I know I would have to be very careful feeding them to my bettas. Information off the internet says to purge the worms under running water to get rid of bacteria and virus since they come from sewers? It doesn't say how long this will take? Maybe I am paranoid?

If I can get rotifers and infusoria to appear I will be very excited! Thank you so much for your help Indjo. I will try an empty dog treat container inside as soon as I clean it. 
Container for inside: (my dogs just finished off the treats) It holds over a gallon of water.









BTW- I did some research on the algae I usually get outside, and it looks like blue green algae. (Cyanobacteria) It is around the roots of the water lettuce I have floating in the tub with the mosquito larvae right now.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

An out break of algae is a good sign. Micro critters will feed off them. What I don't understand is how they will enter the tank if it's indoors. So I suggest you add some spring/pond or what ever natural water to start the culture..... If you keep it fish free for a few weeks, IME parasites will die off, making it safe to use.

In case you need to use live tubifex in the future; Tubifex needs substrates. In the wild they bury themselves in mud. To separate worm from mud, put them in a dark bowl or something and cover it. The worms will surface, making it possible to separate. Do this a few times until it's clean enough.

Or you could put them in a net, regular fish net with smaller holes or those tubifex cones. Position them on the top of the water (just submerged) and they will work their way through the net and drop to the floor. Then use a bowl to remove the net and mud. The problem with this is that sometimes the worms decides to stay in the mud.

If your LFS provides mud free tubifex, all you have to do is rinse them about 3 times. Put them in a bowl, fil with water and shake, then flush. Repeat this about 3 times or until the water is crystal clear (use chlorine free water). They should be safe to use. If you buy more than the fish can eat, provide tiny pebbles as substrate and put everything in running water. I usually put them under/ in front of the pump outlet. I position them in a way so that just enough water gets into their bowl - not flushing everything. Dead worms will be washed away and filtered. 

Avoid buying too many worms. Approximate about 1 weeks supply at most. For fry, you only need about a thumb full for 1cm fry per week (about 100 fry). Avoid storing worms in the same tank as fish - dead worms = dead fish. Always keep in mind that tubifex easily die - they need high oxygen water/running water or at least airated water. When you buy them, immediately go home and prepare them. Too long in the plastic bag, they may die. Throw away half dead worms..... they should get washed away during rinsing.

I hope I didn't leave anything out.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you!

I might be able to get a sample of water from our neighbor who has a very small drainage pond in their yard. I am not sure how polluted with chemicals and fertilizers this might be though. A lot of our neighbors use lawn service companies who come and spray chemicals and poisons to kill pests and fertilize lawns. (I swear, America doesn't need terrorists to do terrorist acts. People here are doing a wonderful job of killing the land, and themselves, all by themselves. )

I will see how the local pet store keeps tubifex when I go up there next time. I thought they would be practically indestructible worms. 

I may have found a good source of 4 gallon water containers today. If things turn out how I hope, I may be able to construct something that would keep tubifex alive and happy by recycling water over an elevated area with the worms that will drain back into the bottom of the reservoir. At the very least I think I should be able to keep a weeks worth alive hopefully if I do use them. I appreciate all the help. All the other sites I have found do not say much on their care. I am printing your post.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

No problem.... 

I suggest not use anything that gets chemicals regularly. Ferts IMO are OK if you can somehow reduce their percentage. But stay away from pesticides .... better safe than sorry.


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