# Introducing Females



## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Hello guys, its been a while since I last posted on here. I just was looking for some advice on female Bettas. 

I know females can be kept in sororities if done correctly. I'm just not sure what the best way to go about introducing them to eachother would be. I went to Petsmart to buy some Tubifex worms and walked past the Bettas and they had a new shipment of them. They were all active and healthy looking and seemed to be pretty young, and the females were on sale for 99cents. I fell in love with two VT girls and ended up grabbing them. I have the resources to separate them if need be, but how would one go about introducing two females together? They seem like they are fairly young compared to the Bettas I usually see, and they had been sitting right next to eachother on the shelf. Not sure how much of a factor that is. 

I'm also not sure if it would be better to have more than just two before introducing them, or if I should just see how these two girls do with eachother for now. If I should have more I can probably go pick out another, though I don't want to get too many fish at once.


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## 10asartin (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes, you need to have at least 4 preferably 6 before introducing them to each other.


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## Janan (Mar 6, 2013)

You will find many threads on introducing females in this site. Try the search feature, or Google "introducing female bettas" in Google and you will find a series of threads that take you to this site.

Also, http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1097 Is a good article.

From what I hear, there's safety in numbers. The more females the less opportunity one will single out another to pick on. I will be introducing 6 females in a couple of weeks. I have two right now and when I tried to put them together it wasn't long that they were body slamming one another and aggressively chasing each other. The stress will lead to sickness and death, if they don't actually kill each other. I separated them at the good advice of one of the members of this great forum. They are in separate tanks until the others arrive.

How big is the aquarium you will be placing them? Rule of thumb is 1 female (preferably less) per 1 gallon of water.

Will there be any other tank mates? 

Is your aquarium cycled and heavily planted? Your females will need a lot of hiding places as they sort out their pecking order, for there will be a few chases. I have my aquarium heavily planted now, top and bottom (floating plants, dense plants and tall plants), with decor like floating logs and driftwood and decor that the fish can hide in without tearing their fins.

Do you have another small holding place for any female that might be too aggressive? Do you have a plan on what to do with her if she really needs a place of her own?

From what I've read, they all need to be introduced at the same time to the aquarium, so one doesn't have the advantage over the other. They need to be watched carefully and continuously for awhile, for any overagressive female. If there is one, take her out and float her in a clear container in the tank. This way she gets used to her tank mates, but can't harm them. After a day or so, put her back in and watch carefully. If she repeats the behavior, take her out again and do the same. Bettas are smart and she should learn that aggressive behavior only gets her in isolation. There may be some that just don't learn. That's why you need plan B.

I'm sure there is more info I left out. Again, enter the word introduce betta in the Search and see what you get. Or go to the section in this forum for Betta Companions and you will find many that are asking the same questions as you.

Most important, do your research and you will have better chances of happy, healthy girls.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

I had a 36 gal with 7 female. It worked but not well. These are not social fish they are happier when given their own space. They do not live together in the wild it's not in their DNA to play nice. Maybe some one should work on breeding Bettas for temperament. Female or no they are all Bettas. Female of any kind can be just as mean as males. 

You will enjoy your Bettas a lot more if you keep them alone or with other fish that are Bettas.


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

I just started my sorority, so perhaps we are still in the happy days of little to no fighting. But so far, it's working well! I have four girls in the tank and another girl in a breeder's box, making friends with the others. I have another in quarantine right now while I make sure she's disease free before she can start acclimating to the sorority.

I agree with the above posters and they have given you great advice. I must respectfully disagree with snowflake, though. I noticed that one of my females actually seemed to become depressed when she was separated from the others to treat her fin damage. She is much happier now that she's back in the big tank, even if she's still isolated in the breeder's box. But it all depends on the fish... some are more social than others, just like any other animal species.

If you are one who will be upset by your babies being nipped and chased a bit, a sorority might not be for you. My tank is relatively peaceful, but my alpha, Kitkat, doesn't let the others get out of line. Especially the omega, Hershey. She has been nipped and chased a lot, but that's just part of establishing dominance and a pecking order.

Like others have said... have a back-up plan, and be sure you have at least 4 girls and a heavily planted, cycled tank before you put them into it. I have a couple separate tanks I can put girls into if need be, and I have enough cups that, in an emergency, everyone could be separated while I ran out and grabbed anything else I needed. Make sure you have stress coat on hand because there WILL be damaged fins and a missing scale here or there. But if you want a sorority, I say do it!!


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

How to do you know your fish is happy? Because she is more active? Maybe he likes being a lone and enjoys the time to relax. 

Like I said I had a sorority for a year in a 36 gal with 7 females. My fish were short lived in the sorority and I blame it on them stressing each other out. Stress kills fish. My male that I got at the same time as my females and from the same place lived alone and was 4 years when I lost him. So IME it might seem like it is working but in the end it's sad. Also my alph female changed from month to month. They were always fighting to be number one. I had one female go missing. I found her hiding in a decoration she would only come out to eat them sat in her little save cave. 

I would never ever have a sorority again devide the tank your fish will last longer if you do. 

I would love to here from others that have had a sorority for a year or longer? Maybe I was just unlucky.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I would also like to add that "happy" is a human emotion which no other animal can experience. They can be content in their current state or fearful or stressed but happiness and anger and sadness are all human states of mind which cannot be expressed or measured in fish or other animals.

Anyway, I agree with all else, do not try to do just two females. Get at least two more (yay you can get two more lol) or three more.

By the way, what size tank are you doing this in?


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you guys for all your advice.

I did end up going back to the store, but I was only able to get one more girl. There were about 6-7 females there when I got my first two girls, and when I went back there were only two, and one was taken by someone else by the time I got there. But I grabbed the little white girl who was left. I almost got her with the first two I got anyway, so I guess that worked out okay. I'll probably end up checking back at the store a few times to see if they have any more. They are the only place near me that ever has females. The place I got my boy only has males. 

So I have three right now, That isn't ideal, I know, but on other sites I have read that three can be okay. If not, I can divide and separate them, and worst case scenario, I do have a friend that said she could take one if it gets too out of hand, though I've already fallen in love with all three of them.

I will be doing this in a ten gallon. Its not yet cycled, unfortunately, but set up and I put filter media from my cycled tank into the new filter to give it a kick start. I'm debating whether to keep the girls in cups for a couple days, or if its best to just get them in now instead of waiting a couple days. I don't want to keep them in the cups too long. I am aware I should have had a cycled tank beforehand, but I think it will be okay. I'll probably take some gravel from my established tank too. 

It is decently planted, though it could be better. I'll probably go out and get some more plants once I get paid. I could use a few more plants in my current tank as well, and there are a bunch on sale at Petsmart right now, that are plants I already own that I know at least my male has had no trouble with. So I will probably be getting a few of those.

For "housing" the girls have clay pots and a sort of asian lantern cave thing.

The girls are only maybe an inch and a half long including their tails, and about the size of my pinky finger, maybe a little smaller. Not sure if any of you have any idea of how old they might be. 

If I had a decent camera, I'd take pictures, but it gets really blurry and grainy with my ipod camera unless its in very specific light. 

Would they be okay to introduce these three first and if they get along, would it be okay to introduce a couple more if I can grab a few more (if the store has any more available when I go check)? I'd like too avoid keeping them in the cups longer than necessary.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh and something you can do for right now is keep them in their cups. I know you said you wanted them out but it's actually better if you keep them in there until you get more females. It's not hard on them, just do water changes every other day and they'll be just fine! Acclimate them to the tank water and float them in their cups in the water to keep warm until you can get at least one more. Three is still really super iffy in my books just because there really isn't enough to spread aggression around; that's the goal with sororities is to have an optimum amount of girls to spread aggression so that not just one girl is being picked on.

But anyway you can acclimate to the tank water and get a spare cup if you can. Then use that spare to fill with a bit of water, take out the first girl. Empty her cup over a bucket (Don't put her water into the tank since the point of QT is to get rid of disease, although this isn't your goal here but it's acting as a QT period anyway ^_^) and catch her with a net. Then put her in the extra cup for now with the water, then rinse out her cup with tap and then fill with water from the tank, she can now be put in her old cup and left to float since it's clean! And then do the same with the other two.

I do that method now for all my QT girls when they come in or for sick girls, it's easiest to do since they can float, i don't need extra tanks or heaters and they can still see each other. That's the biggest thing in a sorority is that they see each other and get used to their presence. If you take one out, even for a day they'll have to reorder their pecking order and start all over basically. Usually there isn't too much aggression at this point but if you take out a girl at the top or the Alpha, it can be severely stressful since she won't be able to keep things in check. Make sense?

For a 10 gallon you could even go up to 7 girls comfortably if you have enough plants :-D Your cory's are staying with Ben right? So if you don't do other fish you can have 7-8 just fine ^_^ and that will really help with spreading aggression and make for content fish.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you very much, lilnaugrim n_n

I actually have a small half gallon critter keeper I use sometimes for acclimating and for isolating fish if I need to check on them. I used it to check up on my Cory that has a fin missing while he was growing his damaged fin back (he's doing very well now n_n). Anyway, I can probably use that critter keeper instead of an extra cup, or I could even keep a girl in there if that's better than a cup. I also have a 1 gallon, and I may have another older half gallon critter keeper somewhere (nothing ever actually lived in the tiny critter keepers, I just see them at my local thrift shop and I grab them because they're useful). I'm probably overthinking things, I just get worried that they may be unhappy in the small cups for any length of time, though I suppose if they had stayed in the store they would have been in them for a while, but that usually turns out bad for Bettas . I just want all my girls to stay as content and healthy as they seem right now. And I would like to avoid too much trouble between them. So I suppose if I keep them in the cups I can just keep them floating in the cups until I get more girls. Which will hopefully be sooner than later. The sale on the females at Petsmart lasts until the 21st, so they may get snatched up quickly. Actually, I think they may have had crowntail girls on another shelf, but they are much more expensive, and I would definitely have to wait until I get paid to get them. I don't know if Crowntails and Veiltails would be okay together, though. I assume it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I want to be safe. 

And yes, the Cories are staying with Ben. He seems to enjoy/tolerate them pretty well, and they all seem pretty content, so I don't really see any reason to move any of them. 

I'll keep an eye out for more girls. I wish they weren't so hard to get around here. People don't usually buy them, so they don't get stocked at all most places here. Even the Petsmart I got my three girls from usually only has boys. 

I just may not be able to get more girls for another week, I don't know if that is an unreasonable amount of time for them to be floating in cups. Though I suppose a QT would last a decent amount of time. I guess as long as I keep the water nice and clean, it should be alright. I've had their cups all sitting so they can see eachother, and they seem to be acknowledging eachother, but no one has really tried to get at anyone else yet.

Also, I don't know how much of a concern this is, but The silvery blue girl I got had stress stripes for a little bit when I got her home, then they went away for about an hour, then they came back for maybe 20 minutes. The dark blue girl had them for a short time as well, though very briefly. Is this just from being shipped to the store, then being on the car ride home, or should I be concerned?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The only reason that it turns out bad for them in stores is because they don't have enough water changes. Since you can do water changes for them every day or every other then nothing bad will happen to them. You can use the .5 gallons if you want but trust me, it's going to be more of a hassle fitting it all in there or using extra heaters. Breeders do this all the time.

Also use the lids that the cups come with so they can't escape, much easier to work with 

As far as tail types, that's just it, they're tail types. There's nothing different between a CT, a VT, a DT or DeT, HM and so on except that some have different ray counts. They are all the same species though. In my sorority I have everything from VT, CT, HM, HMPK, DeT and DT and they all do fine oh yeah and one regular PK too ^_^

And stress stripes are very normal, anything from moving to being introduced some where else, different water parameters, different food, different girls. I have one girl, actually my DT Phoenix who always gets stress stripes at feeding time as does Cherry. it's their way of saying "you can go first, I don't want any trouble!" same goes for "breeding" stripes which can also act as submission stripes, just telling the other girls that she doesn't want any trouble! Baby Betta's can exhibit this as well.

And for the length of time, you are certainly over thinking this ^_^ I keep my girls in their QT cups for _at least_ 2 weeks and that's with water changes 3-4 times a week (depends if I'm there or not) and sometimes I keep them in even longer! One of my girls; Lady, she was super feisty and had gotten out of her cup once when I didn't have the lid on and she started to try to attack her sister who was in another container. So the three sisters all had a vendetta against each other. So the smallest of the three, Jewel was the first to come out after 2 weeks then her sister Emma after 4 more days and then Lady came out a full week and a half later to make a full 3.5 weeks in the cup. I thought she was going to be super feisty still but the time in QT when she realized that she can't get at her sisters and the other fish made her calm down and she's still one of the sweeter girls in there right now!

That brings me to another point, sometimes you'll come across bullies like my girl Lady there and you'll see her picking on some other girls or just one girl in particular. If you see this continuing for a few days then you can scoop her up and keep her in either a clear breeder box or a cup like that for a week or so to calm her down. Basically they can still see each other but inflict no harm and after some time in there they realize how stupid it was and they kind of forget about it and then when you release they're just like "eh". I once did this to Stardust for 2 days because she had claimed the entire water sprite floating on top as "her" spot so in order to let the other girls actually swim around, I QT'd her in her cup for 2 days and let her out and she was totally chill!

But at the first two-three weeks you're going to see lots of aggression most likely, some flaring, biting, nipping, body slamming and chasing. This is completely normal and you need to let it run it's course. This is their time to pick their leader or Alpha and get things in order. If you disrupt the process it's going to take them much longer to get over things and realize that they'll be living together. However, that said, if you see one girl that is seriously ganging up on one other girl, you need to QT that bully and put her in time out so that she can see the girls but can't do anything about it. Make sense?


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Okay, that all makes a ton of sense to me.

I just get very worried about fish in small containers for any length of time, but it does make sense to keep them in the cups for at least a week or two. So I think they'll be okay n_n And the cups they have are bigger than the cups they used to use at my local Petsmart, so there's that, as well. 

What would be the best way to change the water in the cups. I've never had to deal with a container so small. Do i only do 50% or should I do 100% water changes? I haven't changed any water since I brought them home yesterday afternoon, should I get rid of the store water right away? Its kind of got a blue tinge to it that I've never been sure about when I've seen Bettas in it. Not like bright blue, but like a very pastel blue tinge. I just don't want to end up shocking them or anything. But I can't imagine what might be in the store water.

Keeping them in the cups will also give me the opportunity to go out and grab a bottle of stress coat. Any time I've needed it, I've borrowed a little from a friend, but I would be good to have some on hand for the girls when anyone gets hurt. I'll also probably grab a breeding box, because I think it might be better than just floating in cups if anyone needs to be put in time out or needs to be temporarily separated for whatever reason, since water can circulate in and out of it. 

Goodness, my shopping list keeps getting longer, haha. But I'm sure it will be worth it n_n Even if it doesn't work out, it will be a learning experience I can rememeber in the future.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay for water changes for the small cups:

Right now you can empty out half of their water down a drain or bucket or something and then pour in water from the tank every 10-15 minutes or so to acclimate them to the tank water. Then after it's full again empty out half again and continue to tablespoon in water from the tank every 10-15 minutes until it's full. That's step one ^_^

So now they're acclimated to the tank water and the good thing about this is that you don't have to worry about getting the temp right from the tap and all.

So take your extra container (preferably smaller than their cups because they'll only be in it for like 2 seconds really and you don't want to take out a ton of water from the tank) so put some water in the small container. Now take the girl in her cup, pour out half her water in the bucket and then keep going and hold a net at the end and pour her into the net. Then you can plop her into the small container while you rinse out her actual cup if needed. If it's not needed then just go right ahead and fill that cup back up with new tank water, leave some room and take the small girl and pour her and the water into that cup to top it off. Leave about half an inch or so of air space just so they can't jump out or whatever.

You can do that everyday or every other day, really doesn't matter  and do the full 100% to get rid of any ammonia and dissolve organic compounds in their cups 

And yes, breeder boxes are good for time outs but not QT, obviously as QT would be trying to get rid of diseases or whatever and breeder boxes would not do that haha.

Yeah, Stress Coat is great, i always use it in my sorority tank because there's always someone with ripped fins or whatever but they heal really fast ^_^

Oh and when you do release the girls you can do it all at once and just watch them for an hour or so. You can feed them once they're released as well, this will take their minds off the fact that they can now touch each other. Then they'll explore and start staking out their territories ^_^ When you get new girls to add, you MUST QT them for at least 2 weeks if not longer if you can. You really don't want to have to deal with disease in your tank, it's much easier to treat one girl rather than 6 ><


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Alright, thank you very much for the help n_n

And I do understand that Breeder boxes can't be used for QT, I would only be using it as a barrier.

Just one more question. At this point, I think I'm probably gonna shoot for getting six girls for the ten gallon, however, if in the future I wanted to move all the girls to a 30 gallon, would I be able to add more girls to the group, or would that completely disrupt the hierarchy and be asking for trouble? I don't want to cause any serious problems. Obviously this is currently hypothetical, since I don't think I would have room currently for the 30 gallon, but I will hopefully have my girls for a long time and I don't know how well they would react to new girls.

And what about other species? I won't be adding anything else with them to the ten gallon, but if I were to move them to the 30 in the future, would them being an established group have any effect on me adding tank mates (if I don't add more girls)?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I was mostly joking for the breeder box thing lol that's fine ^_^

As far as adding more girls, yes you can! I add girls all the time to my 33 XD

This is why QT'ing them in the cups is the easiest way to do it. You float them in the tank with the girls, they inspect and maybe flare for a bit but both sides of the party end up getting used to each other and really don't care. So then after the two weeks they've gotten used to their presence and when you release the new girl (I release them in the back while I feed the older girls up front) they immediately go to the bottom of the pecking order usually. Once in a while you'll get one that challenges the Alpha but it usually doesn't last long and they just sort of mope around the tank and then they're fine again ^_^ girls can be pretty silly sometimes lol

But no, it really doesn't disrupt their pecking order for the most part. Sometimes there is some rearranging but they get over it in a few days as opposed to two weeks initially. 

As far as other species, it depends on what you want. I tried a school of tetras with my girls and the tetras ended up getting pretty rowdy. They weren't nipping the girls or nothing but they were sparring between themselves and I could see that it was stressing my girls out. I took them out and the girls went back to being content with their tank. Corydoras, however, make great tankmates because they are bottom dwellers as you know and Betta's are mid-high tank dwellers. Although I swear one of my girls thinks she's a cory and shoals with them and is basically their leader XD

But it all depends on what you're thinking, if your water parameters are good you could even add a pair of German Blue Rams (one of my goals lol) and they'll be fine. For the most part the girls ignore each other and ignore everything else in the tank. And no you can add tankmates whenever you want if they were in the 30, since they really don't care about other species of fish.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's great n_n Most likely, I may be adding some kuhli loaches, because I've been wanting kuhlis for some time, now. But they stay on the bottom and hide a lot, so I doubt they'd be much of a problem. 

Oh goodness, they have some gorgeous Blue Rams at the place I got Ben and the Cories from. I went there yesterday to see if they had Betta girls (they didnt), and I always stop and look at all the fish they happen to have. They also have a massive, handsome resident Arrowana that I always walk over and say hello to. 

By the way, I tried to get some halfway decent pictures of the girls I got. I apologize for how blurry they are, my ipod camera is horrendous. 










^This is Alice, you can't see in the picture, but her ventrals are bright red.










^This is Gylfie. She's the one who keeps getting stress stripes.










^And this is Sonata. She looked black at the store, but now that I see her in better light, she's a dark blue. I imagine once she grows a bit and gets more comfortable, she'll end up being the same color as Ben. Though she probably won't have red ventrals like he does.

And I don't know if I've ever posted a picture of Ben, but this is him.Though he looks more purple in the picture than he actually does. He has patches of a red-violet color, and his ventrals are a deep blood red. His head is also a red violet color. Excuse the water color, right now I'm dealing with an algae bloom, that I'm slowly getting to clear up, but my water is a little green and cloudy from it right now. Its mostly from the heat and my light, so I'm gonna be keeping the light off until things clear up. (Also excuse the glare and the reflection of me taking the picture XD).


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm only at +6 months, but *knocks on wood* so far so good with my girls. I have 12 girls in a 36 gallon planted tank. The only time I see any nipping is at feeding time, and that's mostly as they try to lunge around each other to get that one last pellet.

To introduce females after the initial batch, I would do this: After their QT time was up, I would put the girl back in her cup and float it in the big tank. I would do partial water changes of tank water into the cup 2-3 times a day for 2-3 days. At that point, the girls in the tank would have satisfied their curiosity about the New Girl and the New Girl had time to get used to the idea of the big tank. Each time I have done this, the sorority is HUGELY curious about the new fish, and the most dominant ones will initially circle the cup and flare a bit, but so far they get bored of that after a few hours and then don't bother with the cup at all...till it's time to release. And then....









Yes that's 5 girls that swam INTO the cup, with two more considering.

I am really pleased with how this sorority has turned out. I admit due to my own inexperience it got off to a rough start, but more research has fixed that. So far


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's awesome! I'm glad your sorority has worked out so well.

I'm so excited and anxious to get my sorority going, I really hope everything works out. I've been wanting a sorority for a while now, and didn't think I would end up doing it, but it feels good to actually be preparing for it now. I'm probably gonna shoot for getting three more girls in addition to the current three I got yesterday to start the Sorority off. 

I've been reading varying opinions on this: Is it better to introduce only one new girl to a sorority at a time, or should you introduce two at a time so one doesn't get ganged up on?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'd just throw them all in lol Don't give them down time to explore, just put them all in at once. Some do the least aggressive to the most aggressive but that's terribly hard to determine when they are in their cups.

The girl who I thought was the sweetest girl ended up being Alpha for two weeks until she gave it up to Mystique so sometimes you just never know until they're in. So just put them all in at once and it's just a lot easier.

You kind of just have to let them do what they do and leave them at that.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for all the advice!


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

Your initial group of girls should be released more or less together. I believe the rule on this is when you start letting them loose, free the *least* aggressive seeming one first, wait a few minutes, release the next least aggressive, and so on, working your way up to releasing the one that seems the *most* aggressive last. No less than 4 initially. And be prepared to watch and intervene if things seem to be too wild at first. I had a breeder cage that was my Time Out box. I had to use it a few times on one particular girl at first, but she got the idea after a few rounds.

I'll be honest, after 6 months, I have no idea who my alpha is. I know a few that it is *not* but there are about 8 of them that typically hang out together. Of the rest, my orange is a loner, my two smallest ones like to chill in the plants, and one thinks she is a tetra.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I wake up and check on the girls this morning and I almost had a heart attack. Looks like little Sonata is having swim bladder issues. I have their cups floating in the tank and its 80 degrees, and their water is clean, I did 100% changes in their cups yesterday. She's floating up on her side, though not too dramatically. Just enough to look a bit distressed, and she has very bold stripes right now. I don't know if it has anything to do with my food. I only gave them each one pellet and a small piece of a bloodworm yesterday (at completely different times of day). I don't know if its the bloodworm or the pellets, but I'm gonna be changing the pellets for both the girls and Ben to Hikari, because I looked at the ingredients of my current pellets and the third ingredient is Soybean Meal, and there are a few other fillers in there too. I do have a sample packet of Hikari in my drawer, so I can use that until I get paid and can buy an actual packet of it. But the sample comes with enough for at least a month, with the feeding schedule I use, and the number of Bettas I have. So I think I'll be okay for a little bit. I'm probably gonna fast Sonata until she looks a bit better. And then try the frozen pea thing I read.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Don't use pea's, Betta's are insectivores and cannot digest vegetables so it would really hurt to use pea's. You can if you really want to though, but I just don't suggest it.

What you should do is get some Epsom Salt from walmart/pharmacy or somewhere like that. Usually in the first aid section, need to get 100% Magnesium Sulfate no additives or scent. But Epsom is a laxative in both humans and fish so you can mix up a gallon of water and use that for her water changes. Use your conditioner and then mix in 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt and dissolve it. Then you can take out 50% of her water from the cup, add in some from the new salt water and then do another 50% 15-20 minutes later and add in more new salty water to make 100% water change.

So anyway, keep that up until you no longer see her floating like that. It could be the stress of it all and in which case she'll get over it in time. Don't use the salt for more than 14 days though, well at that dose it won't hurt her but you really shouldnt need to for very long. And in fact you can just fast her for a day or so and she should be fine. So don't use the salt unless this persists for 3 days or more. Also, what kind of Bloodworms were they; frozen or freeze-dried?

Also I suggest you look into Omega One and/or New Life Spectrum. NLS has one filler but over all the ingredients are better and they actually just improved the formula. And Omega has no fillers in the first three so therefore best ;-) But Hikari will work for now too ^_^


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you so much. 

I actually ended up moving her to my small critter keeper for now just to make sure she's okay. She looked really stressed out and one of the other girls just kept trying to get at her and she was already stressed out from the swim bladder problem as well as everything that's gone on for her in he past few days. I don't want to lose her, so trying to keep her comfortable. I have her on a shelf in the half gallon critter keeper with a bare bottom and I'm keeping her tank covered enough to keep it dark to calm her down and help her feel safer. Though I made sure to keep the cover vents uncovered on the side facing the shelf so she has air. She's been like that all day, and I was out of the house all day, but I just checked on her and I think she had been sleeping when I checked, because it took her a second to respond, but she darted toward the bottom and actually was able to swim the length of the critter keeper twice staying at the bottom before floating up much more slowly than this morning. This morning she wasn't able to do that. She seems to be able to stay a bit more upright now too, though she still is floating slightly. I have my fingers crossed for her. She seems like such a sweet girl and is very cute, I really hope she ends up alright and it's just from the stress of everything. I'm just worried about it possibly happening again. 


Okay, I was looking up foods today and I think I may get Omega One instead of Hikari. Though I can't right now, so all four of my Bettas will be eating the Hikari from the sample packet I have until I am able to get new food.

The Bloodworms are freeze dried, which may be part of the problem. I'm not sure, as Ben has never had an issue with them. The girls only got pieces about the same size as a single pellet. 

I'll keep a close eye on her, and hopefully she improves and heals up on her own. I didn't feed her at all today, and if she is still floating tomorrow, I'll continue to fast her and probably see if my CVS has Epsom salt for a price I can afford right now. I think they have small cartons of it for around $2 but I don't remember. I have a feeling she may do okay on her own though. It seems like she's a lot more comfortable now, anyway.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah even if it's a small piece of anything freeze-dried, I still wouldn't do it. It promotes constipation which obviously wouldn't help 

Oh and for ES, Walmart has a brand; Swan for 88 cents! and it's big too :-D

And was your girl bloated at all? If not, continue to feed her the pellets, there's no point in fasting her once you get the ES in there because it's a laxative and if you don't eat, you don't poop!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Good news, she looks about 80% better this morning. She's actually able to swim almost normally now. It looks as if her back end is pulling her up slightly, so when she swims downward she stays at an angle, but it doesn't seem to be too much of a pull for her to fight anymore. If she stops moving, she slowly floats upwards, but as long as she keeps moving, she can swim almost normally. When she floats, she seems to be able to keep herself from going sideways too, now. Her stress stripes are gone, too, right now. I'm so relieved. I think I'm gonna fast her today again, just to be safe. But I think she'll be completely fine by tomorrow, or maybe even later on today. 

I'll probably get some Epsom salt ASAP anyway, just in case, so I have it handy. I've never had to deal with any kind of medical problems with Bettas before, so I don't really have anything to help them medically. But since I have four now and will probably have more, I should have some rings for medical care and such. I'd like to keep everyone happy and healthy as possible.

Alright, I'll stop feeding the freeze dried bloodworms. I had a feeling they may have been part of the problem. I imagine they haven't done anything to Ben since he's so much bigger than the girls and he only eats one. How exctly do the frozen ones work, though? Or is there anything else I can give them as treats that is safer for them. I'd still like to keep them on a slightly varied diet, at least. Ben even eats some of the Cories' food, so I know he gets good variety. 

She didn't look bloated to me, either. I didn't see any bumps on her belly, though its been hard to tell with the way she's been holding her body to keep herself steady. But unless its very subtle, I don't think she was bloated.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I don't know if this is normal for a Betta with a swim bladder problem, but she seems to be gulping air at the surface and leaving bubbles all around the edge of the tank. She doesn't take one quick breath like the others do, but she takes like five rapid ones at a time. And there's bubbles all around the tank. I'm not sure what to make of it.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Its not very good quality, but this is her in the critter keeper. There's bubbles all along the edges and some of them come out her gills as well as her mouth when she tries to get air. You can also see her "s"ing her body. No bumps to speak of that I can see that would be bloating.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

She looks fine to me as far as bloating goes, organs can still be pressed against each other though. 

And actually those little bubbles make me believe she wants to make a bubble nest! Is she in sight of Ben at all or has been? Females can also make bubble nests although usually not as elaborate as males's nests but they can when they want to. The taking multiple breathes allows her to breathe and then make bubbles which seems to be exactly what she's doing!

As I said, keep feeding her pellets, she needs the strength and it won't help if you skip meals all the time. Same as if you went a whole day without eating, you probably wouldn't feel very good either :/

And yes ES is great to have on hand, that's all I use at home is ES and AQ salt's to my remedies. I've got Furan-2 floating around somewhere but I've never actually used it, both salts have always covered it for me  but using the ES will help her go poo and relieve other fluids she's holding in which can release the organs and put everything back in their own place.

But as I said, if you don't eat, you don't poop and you want her to poop so give her some food ^_^

And for frozen things, you can just cut up a small sliver, use tweezers after it thaws a bit and then you can feed, it might make a bit of a mess of the tank but you can feed that 3-4 times a week no problems. BW's tend to cause a little more constipation than if you got Brine Shrimp but it's worlds better than freeze-dried stuff!


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

The bubbles are normal, I see all mine do it from time to time. And unless her spine seems permanently bent I would also not worry about that - Bettas are just very flexible 

Hope your SB girl makes a full recovery - I had one who kept getting SBD when I would introduce her to the big tank. After having to pull her out and med tank her two times, the third time was the charm.

Several of mine seem to have triggers. I have one that develops stress stripes when she sees a person watching her, but my cats can be trying to dig into the side of the tank and that's fine with her. I have another who gets clamped up for 1-2 days every time I do a water change or decor re-arranging. You just get to know them and what's normal for them after a while!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Okay, thank you so much. 

I gave her a pellet just now, and she seemed happy to have it. I'm gonna leave it at that for now, since she's quite small. She could probably eat another, but I don't want to give her too much if things are pushed together in her belly right now. I wish I had small enough plant to give her a little bit of comfort in the little tank while she's in there, but the smallest one I have is with Ben and the Cories, and it would probably take up the whole critter keeper. I think keeping her covered is helping a little, though.

I'm not really sure if she was able to see Ben, the tank for the girls is along the wall perpendicular to Ben's tank and about three feet away. So I guess its possible she could have seen him briefly. Actually, It looks like Gylfie may be making a bubble nest too.

Haha, this is kind of funny, because Ben only tried to make a bubble nest when he first got into the ten gallon, but hasn't made one again. I'm not sure if its because of the bubbles from the air stone, since on one half of the tank they kind of disturb the surface of the water and would pop any bubbles in a bubble nest, or if he just isn't a nest builder. The first Betta I ever had several years ago would make Bubble nests all the time. Though I've never actually watched them make the nests, so I guess that explains my worry, haha.

Oh, I also just noticed Alice seems to have some pieces of her anal fin missing/torn off. They aren't frayed and I see no fin rot, so I'm not sure why she's like that. I didn't notice it before because she kind of clamped up a little once I got her home, but she's stopped clamping and she does have damage to her anal fin. Looks like two maybe centimeter long chunks taken out. I'm positive its not fin rot, as there is no fraying or color difference, and its only on her anal fin. Perhaps its damage from where she was shipped from? The other girls have no fin damage at all.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I've been debating for a bit actually. And I'm actually thinking I may not do a Sorority. I've been kind of worrying about it, and females are difficult to find around here, so I may not be able to get a good number of them. 

I'm gonna be rearranging my room a bit, because I need to get rid of some stuff. I think, I may actually divide the tank for two of the girls, and get another tank for the third girl. I do have limited space, so my options are limited. I don't really like the look of divided tanks, and I would prefer them to have their own tanks, so I may opt to get two smaller tanks instead of dividing one so I can fit the two smaller ones on my shelves (my shelves are wider than they are tall, so I can't fit anything bigger than maybe a 3.3 gallon, because the hood on the five gallons my LPS has are too high for my shelf, and my desk has a TV on it along with the ten gallon I set up the other day. But its not a lot of space. 

I'm trying to plan this out while they're still basically in QT. I mean, I suppose its best to figure this out now so I can get things set up ASAP for them.For the purposes of space, and making sure they're all comfortable. I may move everything from the ten gallon to my five gallon and keep that on my desk. I'll save the ten gallon for some other time, since I'm sure I'll have a use for it at some point, but it does take up more space than is ideal for my room right now, unless I sacrifice my TV. Which really isn't an option for me, since I am guilty of gaming with a lot of my free time. But I think It would be just fine to have one girl in a five gallon, so I have space, and she still has plenty of space. And then see if I can find some setups for the other two girls that will fit in my room and be comfortable for them without being a problem. 

I guess this may be a disappointment. I did really want to start a sorority, but I just don't know if my heart could handle it, I'm not very experienced with Bettas, and watching the behavior of the girls, mostly Gylfie, I have a feeling there may be trouble putting this group together. And I will probably have trouble finding more girls to put in a Sorority. I should have probably thought about this beforehand, but I am prepared to make sure all three girls are comfortable. I really want what's best for them, and I think following my instinct is what will be best for them in this situation. I don't want to have to be constantly worried about them. But I don't mind having to go out and get seperate tanks for them if it means they will all be safe, and I won't have to worry.

I really don't want to go less than five gallons for any of them, but my space is limited, and dividing the tanks I have that I have space for, they would have less than five gallons anyway. I did see a 3.3 gallon "kit" at petsmart that comes with a filter and hood that is a good price, and I wouldn't mind getting two of them in addition to getting some heaters to go along with them. I know at least five gallons is ideal, but I know some people on here have their Bettas divided in tanks where they have less than five galloons and are doing well. I've seen that 3 gallons is a good amount as well, so I figure 3.3 would be comfortable for them. What do you guys think?

Again, I'd absolutely love for them to all have five gallons, but I don't have the space for it. But I think they would do well in 3.3's from what I have read. As long as they have all their needs met. I mean if I absolutely have to divide a ten gallon, I can find some way to move things around to have the five gallon and ten gallon set up, but I would have to actually move furniture, which I can't do on my own, and I would probably have to actually get rid of furniture.

I'm sorry, I'm kind of rambling.

Anyway, do you think getting two of the girls 3.3 gallons would be okay? They would be heated and filtered and I'd rig up an air pump to a gang valve for aeration as well.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Actually the tank minimum is up to you. My personal minimum is 2 gallons but all my boys reside in 3 gallons to 3.3 (the 10 is split three ways) except the two babies who each have 2.75 gallons to themselves.

I know those rectangle 2.5's would be absolutely fantastic for them since they are a low profile so they can fit most anywhere, they still unfortunately cost about 15 for just the tank but you don't necessarily need a filter, just really a heater and maybe a hood. I don't use hoods on most of my tanks though, if you want, Saran wrap is great! lol

also I don't recommend extra aeration for Betta's since they do have to breathe air; they like calmer surfaces to breathe easier. Unlike other fish, Betta's actually need to breathe air, that's a main difference. Other fish, can breathe air but Betta's /need/ to breathe air so yeah, no extra surface movement's is what they prefer.

So anyway it's up to you, if you feel that they shouldn't have less than 3.3 gallons then go with it but having 5 gallons is totally not necessary. It just depends on if you can keep up with the maintenance or not. if you keep your tanks clean, a Betta can happily live in a 1 gallon! But obviously if you just leave him/her there then it's not good and that's why people recommend larger tanks but it's really up to you and what you feel comfortable doing.

And no worries, one day you can have a sorority but for now you can just enjoy your lovely girls in their own territories which they will love by the way! They aren't social by nature so they don't /need/ to be with other females, so this works out just as well! Easier to medicate as well if you needed.

Either way, I suggest you get lots of plants for them, over time of course but they help improve water quality and protect your fish from bad levels of ammonia/nitrite and nitrates! yay ^_^


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you so much, lilnaugrim, you have been so much help to me. I really appreciate it!

I'm gonna start moving everything from the ten gallon into my five gallon, and I think I may put Gylfie in the five gallon since she seems to be the most feisty and has a lot of energy. She's also the biggest of the three girls. Her color also seems to be brightening up! I thought she was a bluish silver, but she seems to be blue with red radiating out to her fins, almost like tie-dye. I know Ben brightened up a ton after the first week I had him, so I can't wait to see how the girls brighten up and show their true colors. I really think all three are going to be absolutely beautiful girls.

I'm also going to put Alice in my 1 gallon for now. Since they will be living seperately, I figure I might as well get them out of the cups and into something that will give them more space to move and won't get dirty as quickly, even though I'm really good with water changes. Bigger is better, in my book. At least as far as what I currently have on hand. I'm gonna steal a plant from Benny and the cories for Alice, I think, until I get more plants. 

Looks like at least half of my paycheck will be going to these girls, but it will definitely be worth it, I think. Despite the trouble with Sonata, I think all three will be just as wonderful as Ben has been. I really wish I had the space for another male. I'd love to get a Dragonscale boy. There are some really beautiful ones at my LPS, but with the girls, I may be at max capacity. Though I've seen how well "max capacities" work out for Betta lovers, haha. For now, I'm content with these four, though. I really look forward to watching them really develop. Every minute I've had Ben has been wonderful, I can only imagine it will only get better with three new girls to watch and interact with. 

I never would have thought Bettas would be so incredible. I don't know how I spent so long without them. My stress level has gone down considerably since I've had Ben and the Cories, too. Which is part of why I'm keeping the girls separate. I have severe anxiety, so a relaxed environment is ideal for me, and the stress of worrying about wether the girls will rip eachother apart every day would be too much for me. But just having a bunch of relaxed fish in comfortable environments will be good for me and good for them.

Plus...I get to design more tank setups, which is fun as well. I'm a creative and artistic person, so I really have an eye for designing things. 

I really would love to have live plants in my tanks, but I don't really know what type of care live plants need or what plants are ideal for the environments I have. I'm also worried that they may have parasites or something on them since they are living things and can't really be washed or disinfected like plastic and silk plants and decorations.

Also, in the 3.3 gallons, do you think it would be okay to have a snail in each of them with the girls? Or would that be too much for the tanks? I will probably be getting a snail for the five gallon, and I thought about getting one for Ben's tank, but I'm worried he might kill/eat it like he did with the ghost shrimp I had a few months ago. He ate all five within about a week and a half, and I didn't even realize it, so he was getting pellets too. He's such a little piggy.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Oh goodness, so I gave Sonata a pellet a while ago, and now she definitely looks a little bloated. She has a bump under her belly now, and she's back to having trouble swimming again. I feel bad, I guess I shouldn't have fed her. As soon as I am able to. She hasn't pooped at all in the past 24 hours, so I guess having fed her, I know she has something in her stomach now, and should be going to the bathroom at some point. She looks very very uncomfortable,now, though.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I lol'd when you said "Max capacities", it's very true XD I don't know how but I keep finding spaces to squeeze tanks into!

And as far as disinfecting live plants, you are wrong! muhaha, time for another lesson lol, sorry just being silly XD

With plants you can actually QT them for a week or so in regular tap water, the little chlorine that is in there will kill of any/most buggies that might hitchhike as well as unwanted snails. You can also do bleach solution dips with plants.

I make a solution of 1 parts Clorox bleach to 19 parts water in one container and then I have two other's set up. One with just tap water in it for rinsing (or you can rinse under your tap but I was doing this in my bedroom XD) and the last will be the QT container with 4x conditioned water or tap, up to you. But you take the plant, don't let the roots get into the solution but you dip right up in the solution with the plant upside down and let the leaves/stem soak in it for 30 seconds. Take out and rinse under tap or in the second bowl and then place in the QT tank.

But for the most part plants are pretty much all disease free, especially the ones you get from those tubes/bags at petco/petsmart. But I've never actually QT'd plants except for one time and otherwise they just go right in after a trim and voila, planted tank ^_^

As for snails, if you can find Nerite's you can have one in each tank! They poop the least amount of all the snails and cannot breed in freshwater! which is good for smaller tanks too :-D The girls may pick at them but it really depends. My girls wiped out my snail infestation but granted, they were only the size of pin heads and around that. So anyway, yes nerites can go in no problem but I wouldn't put Mysteries/Apple's in anything smaller than 10, he should be fine with Ben though. They're bigger and Ben might harass them a bit when he's first in (make sure to acclimate them) but after a while he most likely won't touch it.

So if you did a nerite in the 3.3's with a girl, you could get plenty of plants in there to help buffer against high ammonia levels. if you have enough plants you shouldn't get any readings from ammonia/nitrites which is great! best thing about planted tanks IMHO ^_^ I think that'd be great for them!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Okay, that seems easy enough, haha. Maybe I'll start trying live plants with the girls in the 3.3s when I get them, and then change the other tanks to live plants as well if that all works out. Does it matter what plants I get, or can I just get anything? And will i have to do anything special for the plants when they're in the tank, or do they just kind of chill and take care of themselves?

Also, don't know if you saw my post right before yours, but Sonata is back to having trouble again, since I gave her a pellet earlier. She definitely has a slight bulge in her belly now.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I'm thinking of getting one of these for each of the two girls I need tanks for  I thought it was a 3.3, but its actually a 3.5. 


http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11051817&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS%2FNo


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I saw the post, just let her be for now and get that ES when you can to hopefully help relieve her.

And as far as plants, many are classed as Low light, Medium light and High lighting. Low light plants are the ones you want which include: Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias, Anacharis, Rotala and Ludwigia (although may grow slower and not be "red" if you get red rotala), cabomda (will be darker green), Water sprite, Water wisteria and common Crypt's also most floating plants as well; duckweed, giant duckweed, frog-bit, salavinia, Dwarf water lettuce, water lettuce, red root floaters and so on ;-)

For the most part you can let them do their thing, pluck off dead leaves when you see them and trim as needed. I recommend using SeaChem's Flourish Comprehensive anyway just because the added fert will really help them take off. When plants are first introduced to the tank, they may "melt" or lose leaves, this is completely normal and will come back in a week or so more. It's their way of acclimating to the new water. However if it starts turning brown, then it's dying and you pluck off that leaf or stem so it can grow new ones.

You can also get swords but usually they will do better in higher lighting, they'll do just fine in low lights but will grow slower is all. Also swords are heavy root feeders so using root tabs will greatly help them ^_^

Also when looking at tanks and other equipment always read the user comments to see what most people like of it. It's not always helpful but it gives you a good idea of what you're getting


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I have great news! Sonata is completely better this morning. I think she was constipated, because this morning in the bare bottom of the tank were two long poops. So she had too much inside her little belly. But she seems much happier now. And is continuing to build the bubble nest.

I had also put Gylfie in the five gallon yesterday evening and I woke up to a huge bubble nest in the five gallon. I think she can definitely see Ben from where she is. It's going all the way around the tank, and about an inch wide in the corners. She's been busy, haha. Ben either can't see her, or doesn't care. He doesn't really make bubble nests, unfortunately. But I guess some boys just don't. He's perfectly healthy and seems content, otherwise.

I'm just do glad they all seem pretty happy and healthy now, though. I did get Epsom salt and was preparing to use it today if Sonata was still having trouble, but she looks 110% better right now. Her color is brightening up too. It's interesting how their colors change once they get good water and comfortable conditions. I thought she was black in the store, but she's definitely a dark blue at this point with what i think is black fins. And Gylfie is becoming absolutely stunning, with her blue body and red and blue "tie-dye" on her fins. I don't know much about color types, but she is really pretty and getting brighter every day.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I actually think I may get two of the rectangle 2.5's for the girls. I don't know if my petsmart even has hoods that small, though. They usually only have the ones for ten gallons or bigger. The five gallons are all in kits from what I've seen, so they come with hoods. I wish there were 2.5 kits using the rectangle ones. I measured my shelf and there's just enough space on my shelf for two of the 2.5's. though it would be pretty tight with hoods. Maybe I will just use Saran Wrap. I'm hesitant about not having a filter on them for any length of time, though. I like to keep the water circulating, and I'd like to at least attempt a cycle, even though they are small tanks. My friend actually somehow got his 1 gallon to start cycling before he moved his HM boy to a 10 gallon. It's not necessary, but I guess it's more for my comfort most likely. I'll be baffling them anyway, to keep the water calm. I have Gylfie's baffled in the five gallon, but I had to lower the water level because she was trying to swim through it because she's small enough to fit and seemed to think there was something interesting there.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you used Tetra Whisper 3i's you can still hold a cycle and it really doesn't push the water around much. It might be a little too tall though....the first week or so the current is strong but after that it dies down to almost nothing which is fine by me, you're just keeping the filter wet for the beneficial bacteria to grow there 

I like the rectangle 2.5's they just look really nice IMHO. Oh and don't worry about them swimming into filters or anything, they'll do it once and probably never again when they realize that they really don't want to be in there haha. But anyway, yeah saran wrap is great for them or you can find some plexi-glass in an home improvement store and have them cut it to the dimensions you want and leave spaces for cords and filters and stuff. You can even hinge it to make it easier for feeding time! I'm not sure how much it costs though, might be worth it to look into it!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I was actually looking at getting the whisper 3i's, haha.

And yeah, I think those would look the best and be the most space efficient things I could get for the girls. And I actually think the 2.5's at my petsmart come with a glass lid. If I needed to I could probably have my dad cut some holes for the sticky-outy parts 

I'm excited, hopefully it won't be too much longer until I can get them. I'm getting paid tomorrow, I just need to find an opportunity to actually get to the store, as I will be rather busy from tomorrow until next Friday house/dog-sitting for my aunt. But I think the girls will be okay until then. The girls in the smaller tanks don't have heaters right now, but its gonna be pretty hot next week, so I think it will be okay. If I keep the door closed in my room, the temperature stays constant. And I'll be home in the afternoon every day to take care of them and my other animals. I'm quite excited, though n_n I think the 2.5's will be perfect for the girls.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh that is soooo weird.....well tomorrow I'm getting paid but from Saturday to next Saturday I'm also house/dog-sitting for my uncles sister lol

But yes without heaters are just fine for now, it doesn't dip too low at night around here ^_^ and I think if either of us was going to be cooler it'd be me because I live 10 minutes from the ocean, unless you're coastal Mass ;-)

Buuuuut anywho! Yes that sounds like a fantastic idea! I want more plants...I'm getting paid tomorrow but I need to save it to pay off someone who bought me a fish here and then a road trip to Niagara falls the weekend after next! (to get more females for the sorority obviously, why else would I do a road trip? lol) anyway yes, that does sound fantastic and I really hope you can get them ^_^ You're girls are going to be super happy!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Haha, that is funny.

And I'm in central Mass, I actually live about 15-20 minutes from Woonsocket. The Pet storeI usually go to is in Woonsocket 

And I really hope they will be, they already seem to be getting more comfortable here


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh wow, that's too funny! I'm on the southern end of R.I. near Westerly. Well it's nice to know there are people near by! ^_^

I usually go up to Warwick for Petco/Petsmart and then the rest of my LFS's are in Westerly/Narragansett.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I've been planning my shopping trip and pricing things out and I'm debating getting two of the medium sized critter keepers, the ones that hold 3 gallons, instead of the tanks. That way I will be able to afford the heaters (I need to get a new heater for Gylfie because the one I was using stopped working since it is very very old). So I need 3 heaters, 2 3i filters, 3 stick on thermometers (I don't trust the glass ones, I'm afraid of them breaking accidentally), more plants (including 4 moss balls, one for each tank), new pellets, frozen bloodworms, a cave or hidey-house for Sonata, a bottle of Stress Coat, and probably some alternative to a siphon for the smaller tanks (possibly a turkey baster?). Plus I need tanks, and I think the most cost efficient would be the critter keepers. And I know they're pretty reliable for the most part, and light. Plus they would have more room in a medium critter keeper than in the 2.5 gallon glass tanks, and the medium ones will fit PERFECTLY on my shelf right next to eachother.

But yeah, just thought I would update you n_n All three girls are doing wonderfully today. I put some gravel and a rock in the small critter keeper Sonata is in so she has something to rest on that isn't bare tank until she gets her permanent home. I felt she needed somewhere to hide too, but its so small in there, so I have a small towel covering a third of the tank so she can hide in that end and feel safe if she needs to. It wouldn't be fair if she had no where to hide or get away from things and feel secure, I know what that's like, being agoraphobic, and its awful  

All three girls have big bubble nests now, too.

I also turned down the power of the air pump in Ben's tank. I'd like to keep it aerated for the Cories, but I thought maybe the bubbles made too much current and maybe that's why Ben doesn't make bubble nests, because it was pretty strong bubbles. Now it's fairly gentle. I would love to see a nest from him.


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## LADY K (Jul 28, 2012)

if you don't want lids use craft mesh you can cut it for any size openings.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you Lady K, I would never have thought to do that. That's an awesome idea. I'll probably get a few sheets of it, since its so versatile in the world of aquariums.


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## Sweetea (May 26, 2013)

If you wanted to be even cost effective, you can use the sterilite show off bins as tanks. They are at target/walmart, about $6 each. My delta's bin holds about 4g. The only thing you need to do is rinse until the water is clear.  Terra cotta pots are good 'caves'...and they are smooth so fins won't rip on them. Just gotta plug in the hole so no one tries to sneak through it. ;-) And yeah, a turkey baster is an awesome alternative to a siphon. Really really awesome.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's actually a really good idea, Sweatea. I may look into that. I do have two small terracotta pots sitting on my desk right now, I just need to get some stuff to plug them up with once I can get to the store. 

Its just the less I spend on the actual tank, the more I can spend to make the actual environment inside nice for them. Live plants can be expensive, but I really have my heart set on some.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Little, once my plants really take off I can send you clippings and whatnot! I'm actually in the process of growing tons of Water Sprite! I've got like twenty little ones growing in the sand and then the giant mother floating. So once they're a little bit bigger I can send you a few if you'd like! Just shipping is all I ask but it should only be a few dollars ^_^

But yes, plastic ware stuff is great for fish in general! I use plastic ware food containers for QT cups and transport cups, works really well! And if I had more surface space I'd totally be getting some plastic containers for more tanks XD I think I'm good with 6 right now though! I've done water changes every day this week! whew! It really is like a full time job!

Also try looking around at Good Will stores and donation places like that, sometimes you can find cheap tanks there if you're lucky ^_^ and of course yard sales! That's where I got my Omega pellets free! got to love 'em :-D


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That would be awesome! I would really appreciate that 

I'm gonna be going out on Sunday morning to scope out a few stores to see if I can figure anything out. I've been trying to figure things out with stores' websites, but it's a lot easier to just physically go to the store to see everything. Sometimes they have different options or different prices in the actual store. Goodness, I'm gonna be all over the place, haha. I'm gonna go to my Petsmart, and Target, and Walmart, and Michael's to get craft mesh, and possibly Petco even though its a bit out of the way, but I'll probably go to my LFS in Woosocket first, since they are not a chain store so their website doesn't really show the equipment they stock. Though I hate going there because they have the most beautiful Bettas and they are all very well taken care of (its where I got Ben), and they always have gorgeous dragon scales and I want one so bad, but I don't have the space or money right now. And I still have to get the girls situated. 

Look what this forum has done to me. I'm gonna have to go to Betta Keepers Anonymous for this addiction that's forming. I'm trying not to think about the shelving unit my mom doesn't want in her room anymore that she wants to get rid of that could definitely fit in the back corner of my room >_<

I also have been checking the Salvation Army thrift shop about a mile away from me almost obsessively to try to find fish stuff. I'm really disappointed, though, they had a 10 gallon with all its equipment (filter, heater, hood) all in it for only $10, my friend told me to run out and get it, because she didn't have any more money on her to get it for me since she was buying her own things. When I got there it was gone  They also at one point had one of the 5 gallon Critter Keeprs but it had the remnants of sand in the bottom and the sides were a little scratched inside making me think a reptile had lived in it, and I wasn't sure if that would be safe to reuse for fish, so I didn't grab it. I did get one of the mini critter keeper's there for a dollar though (I didn't noticed the cracked bottom until I got it home, but its nothing a little silicone couldn't fix) I'm actually using it as a box for all my different fish foods rtight now, since I have another mini I can use as a QT/hospital tank (its currently Sonata's temp home.)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oooh, if you do find used tanks and whatnot you can actually use a 1 parts bleach 19 parts water solution to disinfect anything and everything! It's what I use when cleaning a tank that had a really sick fish in it or when I get new used tanks, always the method I go to first and then because I can, I use white vinegar wash on the inside as well and use extremely hot tap water to rinse out until you don't smell vinegar anymore! So now you know, when you find something like that 5 gallon critter keeper, PICK IT UP! lol

And the plants will be a little while still but they are growing well so I'll keep you updated on that! And hey, if we wanted to save on shipping we can meet up in Woonsocket and I can just give you the plants XD and maybe I can see this LFS that you're talking about because it sounds wonderful! I'm always on the look out for new stores and such like that.

Ugg on a side note, every time I go to write such I write suck! lol


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I figured out I could have probably disinfected it after it was already too late. I saw it when I first got Ben, so getting more Bettas wasn't even on my mind at the time so i didn't think I would use it anyway. But I'm gonna stop in tomorrow morning to see if they have anything. My plans just changed so I'm gonna be scoping out stores tomorrow instead of Sunday. I'm hoping to find some good deals. I'm hoping they have heaters at the Woonsocket LFS that are adjustable, will fit in the containers I end up using, and aren't really expensive. There aren't many options at my Petsmart, and all the small ones are auto heaters, and I'd really prefer adjustables. We'll just have to see. Worst case scenario would be that the girls won't have heaters for a little longer than anticipated, but I'm getting thermometers when I get the new tanks, whatever they end up being, just to make sure their temps are okay. I do have a glass one but I lost the suction cup for it and I don't like using glass ones. But it does the job for now, I just pop it in each tank every now and then to check the temps. All three girls have stayed pretty much at 80 during the day, only dropping to 78 at night, so I think they will be pretty okay for now. Ben's tank has been a little hot lately, so I had to turn his heater down, I've debated just turning it off since its been getting so warm sometimes. It was up at 86 the other day D:

That would be fine, I wouldn't mind meeting up n_n and I don't mind waiting. I'll probably get a few inexpensive fake plants to put with the girls until then for their comfort and amusement, and I'm thinking about possibly ordering some moss balls for each tank online since they only seem to have huge pricey ones at all the stores near me. But yeah, i can definitely show you the store I go to. They do sell other animals/supplies, but half the store is dedicated to fish. Its a family run shop and they just celebrated their 25th anniversary. They do seem to be doing water changes every single time I've gone in, so the floor usually is a bit wet, but They do have a lot of tanks to change the water in. I've gotten almost all my animals there, and they have all been happy and healthy animals. They keep the Bettas in glass jars that are fairly small for space reasons, but they have lights on each shelf of them to keep the water fairly warm, and the water is always very clean, and I have never seen any there that have been less than stunning. They only have males usually, though. I've never seen females at least. One time I went they had two wild males that were gorgeous, but they were quite pricey. They have many varieties of Bettas, though. Its funny I ended up with a VT with all the beautiful fancier ones they had, but Ben just gave me that look. I'm sure you know the look. As soon as I saw that look, I knew he was my fish. It takes everything in me to not buy another every time I go in, so be prepared, haha.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Btw, here's a link to the store's website, though they don't have a ton on it.

http://www.oceansofpets.com/


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That sounds like my two LFS's combined haha I go to (well you probably won't know them) but Critter Hut in Narragansett and Sea Horse pet shop in Westerly. They all sound very similar, Critter Hut is lacking in Betta's but they also have a Macaw! he's beautiful and very talkative ^_^

Oh for inexpensive plants, go to a craft store that has those flower arrangment things and the silk plants they have there are good to stick in tanks! Give them a rinse under hot tap and they're good to go!

And for small adjustable heaters, you're probably better off going online for that. drsfosterandsmith.com has Hydor Theo's at 25Watts for 16 usually but right now there's a sale and I think they're either 12 or 13!!! That's a steal!

And yeah, I totally know that look! It seems every Betta gives me that look XD That's why I have so many haha


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Oceans of Pets, the store I go to, also has a beautiful blue and yellow Macaw! His name is Sam. He's about the same age as the store, haha. They also have two resident Piranhas and a huge handsome Arrowana that lives with a foot long Pleco in the back. I believe that Arrowana has lived there for about 8 years now. He's HUGE. 

Are they really? I've never really examined those fake plants, but I thought all or most had wire in them. And I assume I would have to cut them apart, what would be the best way to anchor them in? I'd buy some aquarium silicone, but it can be kind of expensive from what I've seen. And that would kind of defeat the purpose, haha.

Hmm, I'll keep that in mind. i'm gonna check out Oceans of Pets first to see what they have in stock. I've never looked at their heater selection (never needed to), but they may have what I need. If not, I will probably look into ordering some. 

I'm now kind of afraid of that look, so I'm trying to avoid even looking at the Bettas. But they're all so beautiful and have the most handsome intelligent looks about them. For their 25th anniversary they were actually giving Bettas away for free. I missed it by a couple days, but my friend got a beautiful teal iridescent VT boy when she went. Its her first Betta, though, and she didn't know how to care for it properly. And didn't have much money so I gave her one of my old 1 gallon tanks a small skull and a plant just so he would have more than a small glass bowl to live in like he was, poor thing. She's saving up money to get him a better setup, though. He is absolutely gorgeous, though. And does seem healthy despite having spent a long while in that tiny glass bowl. I also got another friend into Bettas, a few months ago, and he got his VT boy at the same place. His boy looks like a smaller version of Ben (blue with red ventrals) but has some iridescence to him. He's been in a ten gallon, though my friend is having some trouble with him. I keep telling him to post on here for help, but he won't  His boy seems to have fin rot that won't go away, and he is having trouble lowering his pH. Which is quite high. The tank won't cycle and has been staying really cloudy. I don't know what to tell him, I don't know if you might be able to give any advice. I'm kind of at a loss. Here's a picture of his boy he sent me today. He's starting to panic about how bad his tail is getting.

Click


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well to start off with your friend's boy. Looks like it started from fin biting, common in long finned boys. If he can, it'd be best to do at least a daily 25% water change if not 50-80% if he can. I know it can be difficult sometimes. This will also help with the cloud. What he's experiencing is a bacteria bloom that I see, common in cycling or new tanks.

Okay so if he doesn't start improving a week after daily changes, then he can start using a regimen of 1 tsp per gallon of Aquarium salt. This needs to be dissolved before he puts it in! Salt makes and gives off heat when dissolving so it can hurt fish. So in a small cup, take some tank water out and measure out 2 teaspoons to melt first. If he can melt all 10 teaspoons in one go, then good on him lol but he can do it in incriments as well, just keep track of how much you're putting in.

Then every day do at least a 50% change so take out 5 gallons. Then when he replaces 5 gallons you have to re-add the 5 teaspoons of salt since salt doesn't dissolve. Also take note that AQ salt will damage live plants.

So what I've been saying is for the whole 10 gallon. But if he can get a QT tank this would make his life and his betta's life a lot easier. If its a 1 gallon or smaller it can float in the 10 gallon to remain heated and then he can do daily changes just on that small tank. In which case it'd be best if he did 100% changes daily while he did the 1 tsp/gal AQ salt. So if it's 1 gallon, then 1 teaspoon but 10 gallons is 10 teaspoons. So not only will he be saving his back, he'll be saving money and salt too.

Also he needs to get some Stress Coat of sorts, a water conditioner to help heal up the fins. You use Stress Coat instead of the regular water conditioner and use it at double the dose. This can be used during the salt regimen or after to start healing is all. Also remember that fin rot is black decaying fins, if his tail is just shredded with no black then he just needs to do frequent water changes and use Stress Coat along with a healthy diet to start healing up.

Also if he's a fin biter, then he may have a tick or something that makes him bite his fins. Sometimes it's a light being on to long or a heater light coming on at night or something silly really. They also do it out of frustration or sometimes just to give themselves a "hair cut" because the fins drag them down when they swim and they don't like it. But those U shape's make me thing biting whereas fin rot is usually not even unless just starting. Also rips and tear's aren't fin rot per se, just tears that can be healed with good water, Stress Coat and a good diet.

As for the bacteria bloom, that's nothing that a series of water changes through the week won't help. Also if you keep an eye on the ammonia during a cycle, when it gets above .25ppm that's the time to do a water change so it doesn't hurt your boy. Sometimes it will take multiple water changes to get the ammonia levels down but it's needed and then after a few weeks it will cycle.

But anyway, yes I saw the Macaw on their website, that's why I mentioned it haha


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you so much for all the advice. I'm gonna link him to this so he can read it himself. He does have a 1 gallon he had planned on using to try to care for his problem. I really hope all you said helps. I've been worried about the poor thing, as has my friend.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's good! I'm glad he's definitely willing to help his little Betta! So many who wouldn't bat and eye at that!!

I hope the little one get's better soon.

Oh what I forgot to say is that if he does have a tick, he might be able to find it. As I said the thing about the lights, maybe leaving them on too long or during the night (Betta's need sleep too) or something like that.

Also AQ salt is not to be used for more than 14 days without at least 4-5 days of rest from the salt, so keep that in mind as well! However if the blackened edges go away before 14 days is up, take him off salt and just start using daily water changes and Stress Coat water conditioner as well as keeping him warm!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Yep. He's been trying very hard to help him out for the past month or so. But he keeps getting a little better, and then getting bad again. So it would make sense for him to be a tail biter. He had though he kept getting his tail caught on things, like the plastic plants he had in there. So he took them all out. But the plants are plants I have with Ben and he swims right through them and has never torn a fin or even got caught. So I thought it was a bit strange. 

I've sent him the link to this topic so feel free to add anything else you think he needs to know. He's kind of shy and afraid to actually post on here, though.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh no worries about being shy, at least he has you to go through so that's a super help! If he ever wants to he can PM me, I swear I don't bite! haha 

Oh another thing is, I see lots of open space in that 10 gallon. Betta's aren't so much afraid of sizes of tanks but how well they have cover. So in a bare 10 gallon, it's going to make them extremely stressed and possibly lead to biting but say if they were in a 46 gallon that is heavily planted, they'd be totally fine. It's all about the cover! So the more plants you can get (craft store plants!) the better his Betta is going to feel :-D

Also the thing about craft store plants, if the metal is not exposed it will be fine to use, it's only if the metal is exposed then it can rust away in the water. But otherwise will be fine to use, if you have to cut it you can seal the little hole with some silicone or hot glue as long as the glue is 100% glue with no other additives in it like mold preventatives and stuff that you find in silicone sometimes.

And if you can, just stick an end into the gravel and voila, plants! You can shove it off to a side or have a vine like structure run through the tank, that's up to you  there are many DIY projects you can look up through google as well! search engines are your friends in the aquarium business :-D


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

He said he may actually post on here in the disease/emergency section sometime to day to post specifics about everything, since he knows more about his own fish and tank than I do. I really hope it works out. He already has moved his boy to the 1 gallon for now, and already uses stress coat for his water. He's coming with me pet store hopping today as well, so we can grab a few things. I'll tell him about the craft store plants too so he can get some for his boy that will be safe for him.

I actually have a few old pieces of slate that my dad had in his old aquarium many years ago. I have a couple in my tanks right now, but some of the bigger ones have holes drilled in the middle. I bet I could utilize those to anchor in some of those silk plants pretty well 

I also had a question: what does it look like when a Betta sheds their slime coat?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Slime coat kind of looks like strands dangling off the edges of fins and whatnot.

Images from google:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/pectoral1r.jpg/

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=fish...bnh=165&tbnw=209&start=0&ndsp=21&tx=106&ty=68


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Okay that looks exactly like what I saw on Sonata this morning and I was worried, but it fell off right after I saw it. Is it a bad thing for that to happen or is it normal?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's not bad it just means she's producing lots of extra slime. This usually happens when you use AQ salt as it iritates the slime coat into producing more which keeps off parasitic buggers! That's why we use AQ salt for external parasites. But sometimes they do that with other medications as well.


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## JayJaysfishtank (Jul 6, 2013)

*Annoyance...*

So I have 4 bettas in a sorority. One white, one white with a red tail, a blue one, and a red one. The blue one seemed to be aggressive so I put her in last. She bit the tail fin of my white and red one almost completely off! But then they were calm. However my red and my blue one started to lock lips. And my white one just does whatever, she's very laid back. Is the locking lips normal? Are they deciding who is boss? Please help! I have had sorority's before and they all work out! This is the first time I've experienced the fighting. I seprated my female and put her in little tank right next to the sorority :-?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

JayJaysfishtank said:


> So I have 4 bettas in a sorority. One white, one white with a red tail, a blue one, and a red one. The blue one seemed to be aggressive so I put her in last. She bit the tail fin of my white and red one almost completely off! But then they were calm. However my red and my blue one started to lock lips. And my white one just does whatever, she's very laid back. Is the locking lips normal? Are they deciding who is boss? Please help! I have had sorority's before and they all work out! This is the first time I've experienced the fighting. I seprated my female and put her in little tank right next to the sorority :-?


I've seen people saying that "locking lips" means they're trying to drown each other but that's untrue. They're just sorting out who's boss.

How long were they QT'd and did you have them in view of each other the whole time and how long have they been in this tank together? I honestly suggest getting at least 2 more if you can't fit 3 more total. 4 is still a rough number and there's still not enough girls to spread the aggression around. Sororities will never be "Peaceful" but they can work out. Females are still just as aggressive as males are and territorial, these fish aren't social by nature.


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## JayJaysfishtank (Jul 6, 2013)

I QT'd them for two weeks, they were very healthy. Thank you so much for the advice...I'm going to a breeder tomorrow to pick up 3 more. Hopefully all is well. They could see each other, their tanks in fact were touching.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I'm glad its not a bad thing, I was worried. 

I ended up getting them each a 3 gallon critter keeper as well as a heater. I found a heater at my LFS that was only $12 and they are adjustable 25w ones! They only had two in stock, though, and I needed a new heater for Gylfie in the five gallon, so I'll have to wait a bit to get hers. I'm also waiting until later next week to get them filters since I'd like to keep some money on hand while I'm house/dog-sitting, just in case I need to go out and get something. But they should be fine without filters, I live a three minute walk from my aunt's house where I'm staying, so I can just walk home to take care of the fish. I won't be setting up their new homes until tomorrow. 

I also stopped at the craft store and got some silk plants, they do have wire in the middle, but you said that that's okay as long as it isn't exposed, right? I got three nice big bushy ones for $2 each. I can get about five "plants" out of each of them. I also saw some nice smooth natural looking rocks at the craft store under the decorative marbles and stuff like that, and grabbed a bag just to give the girls some interesting things to explore. 

I also found these small ceramic pots for $0.50 each that I grabbed, but I'm not sure if they would be safe to put in the tanks. They were cheap and the perfect size, so I figured I would grab them while I could (they were on sale) and then find out if they were safe. If not I can use them for something else. Do you think they would be okay to put in the tanks?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, the plants will be fine as I said if the metal is not exposed 

And the ceramic pots are totally fine! Most anything ceramic, glass, terracotta, clay all of those can go into a tank no problems :-D The rocks sound great too!

Yeah it's not dire need that they need the heater/filter at the moment ^_^ my tanks were up at 90 today!!  uggg it's hot! Thank the lord where I'm petsitting they have a/c! well we do at home but my grandfather is a butt and doesn't like us to use it.....lammmmeeee


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's all awesome! Oh, I'm so glad the little pots will be safe for them. They are literally the perfect size for the girls, and I got them in colors that will hopefully bring out the girls colors and make them even more beautiful than they already are n_n. I think they will really like the plants I picked out too. One of them has some nice big flat leaves that I think they may enjoy resting on. I'll post pictures once I set the critter keepers up (hopefully tomorrow).


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yay! Sounds great to me!!!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I think I may start a journal for my Bettas, I feel like that's what this topic has become. I did have time to set up the critter keepers for the girls. Though I had a bit of a setback. The heaters I got are not meant to be completely submerged and I accidentally dropped one of the heaters in the tank while trying to clamp it onto the tank rim. So it got wet inside the glass tube. I shook out as much if the water as I could, but its still a bit damp inside. I'm afraid to use it right now. I'm gonna leave it out until it dries out I guess. I'm not sure what to do. I posted about it in the "aquariums, equipment, accessories" section and Mattsbettas seemed to think it would be okay if it dried out and I tried it. So that's what I'll probably do. But not until I can be home for a full day to keep an eye on it. For now, I did acclimate the girls to their new homes and then released them into them and they seem to be pretty content and curious. They seem a little overwhelmed since they are in actual tanks with plants and "caves" and rocks to explore for the first time. But I'm sure they will be happy in their new 3gallon tanks. I'll be getting filters on Tuesday. I'm not sure with the heaters. I'm going to wait to set up any heaters until I can be there all day, like I said before. I don't want any problems or overheating when I'm not there to fix it immediately. The thermometers said the water was a little above 80 last time I checked when I was home, so they should be set for the week while I'm house/dog-sitting. I'll post pictures of their tanks later tonight or in the morning.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I saw the post, I figure if you just flip it upside down so that the water can drain and let it dry for a full 24 hours, you'll be just fine 

And yes!! You should start a journal and I will stalk you haha


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's what I did before I left my house to come back to my aunts. It's sitting propped upside down on my shelf near the new tanks. 

The tanks did turn out really nice though. I'm really proud of the plants I picked out. I'll probably add some to Gylfie and Ben's tanks too once I get back home tonight (I don't have to spend the night with dogs on top of me at my aunts tonight since my uncle is coming home for the night because he has a work thing tomorrow. Though I get to spend the whole rest of the week here with dogs on me. I wouldn't mind as much if they weren't collectively about 60lbs of dog. And maybe if it wasn't so hot.)

I'll probably start up the journal tonight once I get home, then. I apologize if its boring. I feel like you'll be the only one really interested xD


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol yeah I'm pet-sitting two almost fully grown female Boxers and Yorkie terrier. All three jump on me and lick attack me when I sit on the couch and then the Yorkie has to sleep with me otherwise he whines all night long, the spoiled brat lol

And you'd be surprised how many people get interested in journals! I didn't think people were going to look at my journals either but they did!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

The two precious canine girls I'm looking after are a large pointer/pit mix, who is a big 45lb sweetheart who constantly wants to be in my lap and have make out sessions and the other is a 15lb chihuahua/??? Mix (she's tan and has kind of a foxy looking face), who is also still in her puppy phase so she's all over the place. There was a thunderstorm earlier and they both immediately decided to get as close to me as possible, so I had two dogs being big babies on me for about an hour. We watched The Grudge together xD They are used to sleeping in bed with my aunt and uncle so when I sleep they have to be there with me. The little one burrows under the covers and sometimes kicks in her sleep, and the big one is either on my legs or right next to me on her back trying to lick me half the night. It's so much fun /sarcasm. But they are very sweet girls and well behaved 90% of the time. The little one only gets out of hand when she sees the cat and charges at him. Though she never hurts him.

Well I hope so, I can be almost verbose sometimes when I write/type, so it would be cool to have people willing to actually read that stuff. I post journal type stuff on Facebook (mostly about the fish lately) and everyone ignores them x_x but I do like to talk about my fish a lot. They are basically my children (along with my elderly rat and 2.5 year old rabbit). But I suppose this is a forum for people who really like their Bettas so I suppose this may be the place for me to ramble about mine, haha. Probably would be the best way to get advice too and make sure I'm taking the best care of my Bettas. I know I dot do things perfectly, and I do mess up, but I am trying hard to make them happy and comfortable. This is the first time in a long time I h e been 100% responsible for fish, so I'm still learning every day. Especially about Bettas, since they have become the fish I'm most enthusiastic about. I am worried about people telling me I'm a bad owner or something, though because of the fact that I'm still learning and make mistakes, that's why I didn't post much here initially. But I do welcome all the advice I have gotten since I started actually actively posting. And I love helping others and seeing everyone else's beautiful Bettas.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, if the two boxers were able to sleep with me, they surely would but they aren't allowed to the bedrooms beyond the fence. Which is alright with me so I won't have two 60lb and a 20lb-ish dogs sleeping on me and licking me in the night >< it's bad enough they lick me in the day time lol

But yeah, I noticed none of my real friends care about my fish so that's why I post here!! lol my dad tries to follow along but it doesn't really help much XD so yes, it's a lot better here where people actually take an interest and it's nice 

I know the feeling too, but we're here to help and while sometimes it may get a bit out of hand, we're usually really good about new owners and stuff. It's the reason you post here, is to learn  I'm still learning all the details myself! You can never know it all and none of us are perfect ^_^ I'm sure you don't want to hear the tragic stories of my first three Betta's lol, I was SUCH a newb!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Well, unfortunately my very first Betta lived in a 1 gallon unheated bowl for a year, and when I moved him to the ten gallon I have the filter I used was two strong and I literally goin him torn apart and very dead one day about a week after I had moved him. I cried for quite a whole over him. His name was actually Ditto like one of your boys. He was an all red VT from Petsmart. But now that I actually know the proper way to care for Bettas and what their needs are, I feel awful about how I cared for my first one. I mean I did have him for a year and he seemed healthy, but he was definitely not in a very healthy environment 

But I think with Ben and the three girls I'm making up for it. And so far so good, even with the few problems I've come across, with the help from you and others on here, I'm being such a better Betta momma this time around.

That's all very true though. Hopefully I'll benefit from posting in a journal on here n_n I just wish I had a decent camera to use. My iPod is all I have and cameras are expensive. I'm currently unemployed and just kind of do jobs for family when I can. Finding an actual job is pretty difficult around here right now.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I hear you about the job thing, I was lucky enough to get one at the college in the building my mom works in but I've been after it since freshman year, three years ago so....yeah, but I got it! It's only 3 days a week but hey, still better than none! And then yeah, house/pet sitting on the side.

Yeah, my first actual Betta, Gallifrey...well I had him for a whole week in a 1 gallon filtered bowl but ummm well water changing time came around and the water felt nice and warm to me! .....happened that the water was about 110 degree's.....you can tell how that went. And then Scorch was next (yeah named him after Gallifrey's death) and had him for a good 3 months without a filter in the 1 gallon and my dad decided to turn on the filter one day. The filter was in there without the basket because it provided Scorch with a hide from the light. Well the filter went on and by-by fishie as he was sucked up into it. I kind of laughed at it becuase my dad was trying to help me with feeding my fish freeze-dried bloodworms XD but yeah, fail on both our parts. And then my first DT who was red, white and blue named Stony had frozen to death after my heater stopped working.

Gallifrey was a solid red CT and Scorch was a solid red VT  but yeah, then I took a break and got Rembrandt when I luckily found him in a PetSense store! They had just gotten their shipment in! And I've had him since :-D


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

That's awesome that you finally were able to figure things out. Clearly you're doing things right at this point with so many doing so well. 

Though your story reminds me of when my friend had a Betta in a bowl a long time ago and his dad thought the fish was cold so he put it ON THE STOVE with one of the burners on low. I don't think it's too hard to figure out how that turned out.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I seriously went wide-eyed at your story about your friends dad! Oh geez, the poor fishie! Things happen though and then you learn from them, that's what I figure! Yeah I did eventually figure the basic care out lol, still working on upgrading all my heaters to adjustable though but I have time given my tanks were at 90 the other day without heater asist! darn summers >.> wish they'd go away and just leave us Spring and Fall!!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I agree. I don't like summer and I don't like winter. I like mild temperatures. But its only ever the right temperature for me maybe two weeks out of the entire year.

But yeah. I turned Ben's heater down because it was getting close to 90, now its staying down at about 82. The girls without heaters have been at a pretty steady 80, even when they were in the small tanks. And I always replace water during water changes with 80 degree water. So I imagine they are at least comfortable without heaters for now. I'm more concerned with them having filters at this point, which I have to wait until Tuesday to get. But they will be fine for now. They're a lot better off in the critter keepers just as they are now than they were in the small tanks though, so there's that.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Filters really aren't a necessity for tanks, surely it helps but it's not necessary. For beneficial bacteria growth it is but you don't absolutely have to cycle tanks either. As long as you do twice weekly water changes on them around 25-50% they'll be just fine ^_^


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Yeah, I'm getting them mostly because I'd like to keep the water circulating a bit and they do help. I'd like to have a cycle mostly in the event that I can't do a water change on time, and so I don't have to do as much when I do my water changes. I just feel like circulating the water is more natural than having the water just sit there until I do a WC. Plus it will help to filter out any solid bits that float around. Though I'm gonna get a turkey baster to use in place of a siphon for the gravel in the small tanks. I'd just like to do all I can to make sure the water is nice and clean for them. Even if its not necessary, I do prefer to use filters.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Definitely! Just saying more that they'll be fine until you can get them without issue ^_^


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

I was going to start my journal tonight but I just came home to find my rat had passed away unexpectedly and Sonata is having swim bladder issues again (though it looks mild and I think it's from the stress of changing tanks again). I'm quite broken up right now about my rat and worrying about Sonata. I may start the journal tomorrow but I'm not sure. For now I just need to go to bed.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh no, I'm so sorry :-( That's never fun to deal with I know, I hope s/he is running happy and free under the rainbow bridge where the Betta's swim free ;-)

yes, rest is good, I'm off to bed myself. I hope you have sweet dreams.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Thank you for your kind words. 

I will be starting my journal once I get to my aunts and get settled. Although the heater that was wet inside is almost completely dry, so I tried it in a bucket and it works completely fine. I'm so glad. I'm gonna set up the heaters now while I can be at home. Their temps dropped to 74 last night


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

wow 74! wish my tanks did >.< still up at 90 for the good portion of the day :-(

Imma hunt for your journal now! ;-)


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Ill start it up in a few hours. I'm going out to the thrift store to see if I can find any goodies, then I'm going out to get a turkey baster for tank/gravel cleaning in the small tanks. Then after that I'll be going to my aunts for the rest of the day. So it will probably be a little after noon time. I also managed to get some halfway decent pics of my tanks to post in my journal


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Woohoo, love pics ^_^ I have to get some more as well today since I upgraded lighting and whatnot. I can actually see my babies now!!! woo!! lol I really really despise incandescent lights >< ugg hate them! I think I'm going to run to Home Depot again today to pic up a spiral CFL for Rembrandt's tank instead of the straight CFL I have right now and put that one into Gambit's 2.5 providing it holds the wattage but I think it will work since it's only a 10W. I'm just fearful of tanks heating up :-( I don't need any more of that!!!

Anyway, good luck finding some goodies!!! I love looking at yard sales and thrift shops for things like that ^_^ always trying to "fish-ify" things as well ;-) haha


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

So I did end up finding a little .7 gallon tank there. It has a couple cracks, but I can fix them. And it was only 90 cents. There was also what looked to be a 75 gallon aquarium with a stand for $57. I wish I had the space and money to fill that up. 

Gonna be starting up my journal now that I'm all settled in at my aunts again n_n


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Woot! Sounds good :-D

Darn 57 dollars? sooo cheap! But of course setting it up and filling it is still going to be expensive unfortunately! One day I will have a super awesome 55 or 75! lol when I have money and space...you know ;-)


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

Click for Excitement


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