# Is this the graphite disease? (Pic heavy)



## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

I wrote a thread about a week ago concerned about a small hole I had found on my boy's fin. After a couple of helpful responses, it seemed to make a lot of sense that he was just biting his tail, even though he hasn't in the past.

I'm writing again because his fins continue to deteriorate but now there's discoloration on his caudal fin. I'm fearing that this is the Mystery Disease (as I call it), graphite disease, Mycobacteria, or whatever it may be called. He was a beautiful halfmoon rosetail and whatever he has is eating away at it very quickly.



Housing 
*What size is your tank?* 
2.5 gallons

*What temperature is your tank?* 
78 F (25.6 C)

*Does your tank have a filter?* 
No

*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?* 
No

*Is your tank heated?* 
No

*What tank mates does your betta fish live with?* 
None.



Food
*What type of food do you feed your betta fish?* 
Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets

*How often do you feed your betta fish?* 
Every 12 hours.



Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change?* 
2-3 times a week.

*What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?* 
One 50% water change, one 100% water change with hot washes. Sometimes I'll randomly perform 25% partial water change if there's something gross in the water.

*What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?* 
Seachem Prime



Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

*Ammonia:* 0
*Nitrite:* 0
*Nitrate:* 0
*pH:* 7


Symptoms and Treatment
*How has your betta fish's appearance changed?* 
His fins began to show small holes and began to shorten. I thought it was just fin biting at the time but his condition is quickly worsening. His fins continue to deteriorate and is now showing gray discoloration on the edges. Other than this discoloration, the rest of his fins and body remain the same color. His caudal, dorsal, and anal fins began to look more jagged as they melted off his body. His fins are MUCH thinner than what they used to be. Shining a light behind his caudal fins shows they are incredibly thin, almost see through in some areas.

*How has your betta fish's behavior changed?*
His behavior has not changed. He is still very alert, active, playful, and eager to eat. He swims the same as he always has and flares at the same things.

*When did you start noticing the symptoms?*
I noticed the small holes about a week ago. The gray discoloration happened this morning overnight since he didn't have it in his nighttime inspection last night.

*Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?*
AQ Salt to treat what I thought was fin biting, at 1/2 tsp per gallon and switched conditioners from Seachem Prime to API Stress Coat+. I know both Prime and Stress Coat are water conditioners but I read Stress Coat helps with stress better than Prime. I partially change 25% of his water every other day and I'm still doing my normal one 50% and one 100% a week.

*Does your fish have any history of being ill?*
No.

*How old is your fish (approximately)?*
I'm guesstimating around 8-10 months, but I do not know his actual age. I brought him home from Petco on April 19, 2014.






































































The AQ Salt is just to help fend off infection and he is on day 5. I'm pretty sure it's not fin rot as the pictures are not consistent with what he has. The gray coloring just started today but posts from the Mystery Disease thread say people saw this spread within 24 hours and their fish had died. He's currently in my hospital tank sitting on my desk so I can strictly monitor him. Is this the graphite disease or could this just be something else that's treatable?

Any help, advice, or treatment advice is appreciated.


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## hubbley (Apr 23, 2014)

Oh poor guy.  I wish I something constructive to suggest for you two. I hope the "mystery disease" isn't the cause of this. I agree it doesn't look like fin rot, and if it was fin biting at the beginning it is something else now.
I hope you get some helpful answers on this thread.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

hubbley said:


> Oh poor guy.  I wish I something constructive to suggest for you two. I hope the "mystery disease" isn't the cause of this. I agree it doesn't look like fin rot, and if it was fin biting at the beginning it is something else now.
> I hope you get some helpful answers on this thread.



Thanks for your reply. And it's exactly like you said, even if he was biting his fins it's definitely something else now. I *really* hope it's not the mystery disease...


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## hubbley (Apr 23, 2014)

Does it appear to be visibly spreading today? Like you said that disease seems to kill in 24 hours, give or take a bit, but not much longer.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

The discoloration isn't spreading quickly... I checked him this morning around 11 am and it is now 6 pm and it doesn't look like it's gotten any bigger or has spread. If it did, it's not noticeable. However, other parts of the edges of his caudal fins have small gray areas, very small, when they weren't there this morning. The caudal fins are also getting shorter and shorter.

It breaks my heart because he behaves normally and very happy but I know whatever is eating away his fins is not comfortable either. Since his condition is worsening, I think I'll stop his AQ Salt treatments. Since I'm not sure what is causing this (i.e. if it's bacterial or fungal) I don't know what to buy to help treat this assuming it's even treatable. I can't really bear to lose him since I just got him.


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## Soph7244 (Sep 18, 2013)

What about fin melt? Its more severe than fin rot and has the same effects but it looks like the fins are meliting. I would look into it. I think that may be your "mystery disease"


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Are you sure he isn't biting himself? I had a male with a blue caudal and he got bitten on the caudal by a female in my sorority when he escaped his breeder net, and that turned grey. You can see it in the picture below.










It never worsened or turned out to be anything more serious and I believe it just healed up on its own without any intervention from me. 

I have noticed this same grey colour surrounding damaged areas on other fish (usually blue or darker coloured individuals), and I thought perhaps it was just where the top layer of scales has been scraped off or the flesh is damaged.


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

First off, great camera and beautiful fish. 

While I have no personal experience with the graphite disease, I am somewhat familiar with it as it caught my interest a while back and I spent some time scouring the internet for info out of curiosity. 

You say his fins appear to be receding? In the cases of graphite disease that I have read about, the fins did not recede or melt away. The illness struck fast and killed the fish within 48 hours. As you can see from the picture, it looks similar to what your boy has, but not the same. Perhaps it is a different disease. Or perhaps it is the same and is a weaker strain/your boy is strong and healthy.

I read somewhere (have to find it...) that someone had some success with cutting off the affected pieces of fin. I say some success because the disease had already progressed very far and the owner would not have been able to get all of it without cutting too close to the body. If you have the nerve, you could try it. If I recall correctly they put some treated water on a plate, set the fish on it, and got to work with a knife. If it is done quickly, the fish is kept wet, and you don't cut too close to the body, fish should be fine. I don't think the owner even saw any blood.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

Soph7244 said:


> What about fin melt? Its more severe than fin rot and has the same effects but it looks like the fins are meliting. I would look into it. I think that may be your "mystery disease"


Thank you for replying—I hadn't even thought about fin melt so I'll have to do more research on that. I tried to look up basic pictures of fin melt but they were all VT and from what I've seen, it doesn't look like what Billy has. While it does look like someone took a lighter and burned off his caudal fin, they're not "stuck" together like the threads with fin melt I'm finding are claiming. However I will definitely look into it so thanks so much for bringing this up. I've only heard of this once or twice before and I completely had forgotten about it.





LittleBettaFish said:


> Are you sure he isn't biting himself? I had a male with a blue caudal and he got bitten on the caudal by a female in my sorority when he escaped his breeder net, and that turned grey.
> 
> It never worsened or turned out to be anything more serious and I believe it just healed up on its own without any intervention from me.
> 
> I have noticed this same grey colour surrounding damaged areas on other fish (usually blue or darker coloured individuals), and I thought perhaps it was just where the top layer of scales has been scraped off or the flesh is damaged.


I never knew tail biting can lead to gray colors. I haven't found or read any incidences where tail biting led to this discoloration but judging from the picture you posted, there's a strong chance that's what Billy is going through—especially since I initially diagnosed him with just tail biting. It's really hard to know if he's just biting his tail or if he has something else since, "fins disappearing" or "frayed fins" can be a list of different things. I'm monitoring him like a hawk though and constantly trying to find more information. The tears look inconsistent and look more like a "V" shape than a "U". There are a few holes appearing and by the next 12-24 hours, those holes will have ripped to the edges. I took out a few of his plants thinking it may be from decorations but as his tail began to get shorter, I figured he was just biting his tail. But then this gray thing comes up... it's constantly making me more confused and at a loss. But thank you so much for your picture and response. I had no idea tail biting can lead to that color so I'll definitely keep this posted for reference. And of course, I'll be keeping up with his water changes with Stress Coat. Best case scenario (after all this) that I'm still hoping for is that he's just biting his tail and I just need to find the main problem. Thanks again!






freeflow246 said:


> First off, great camera and beautiful fish.
> 
> You say his fins appear to be receding? In the cases of graphite disease that I have read about, the fins did not recede or melt away. The illness struck fast and killed the fish within 48 hours. As you can see from the picture, it looks similar to what your boy has, but not the same. Perhaps it is a different disease. Or perhaps it is the same and is a weaker strain/your boy is strong and healthy.
> 
> I read somewhere (have to find it...) that someone had some success with cutting off the affected pieces of fin. I say some success because the disease had already progressed very far and the owner would not have been able to get all of it without cutting too close to the body. If you have the nerve, you could try it. If I recall correctly they put some treated water on a plate, set the fish on it, and got to work with a knife. If it is done quickly, the fish is kept wet, and you don't cut too close to the body, fish should be fine. I don't think the owner even saw any blood.


I did refer to the picture you posted and the thread that's stickied in this forum so I just completely freaked out when I caught the gray discoloration on his tail thinking he only had 24 hours to live. However, it's been a few hours, almost 12 hours since I first caught a look at it, and it hasn't changed. Seeing how all these symptoms are popping up in little surprises, I don't know what to expect from the gray thing tomorrow.

I'm much too afraid to touch the fish with my hands. I can't even have them eat food off my finger. So the thought of cutting the piece off (while it does make sense to "stop" the coloring) frightens me a lot. I don't think I could ever do it, although I wish I did so I don't have to keep looking at it thinking it's going to spread like wildfire. But your response has been helpful and reassuring that at least someone else thinks it may not be the graphite disease. I just wasn't sure since I've never heard of the mystery graphite disease until recently. A lot of the cases I read from people who have dealt with this disease also reported other symptoms such as lethargy or trouble swimming. However I was unsure if these other symptoms came up because of the mystery graphite disease or if it was just another disease with the mystery graphite disease. 



Thanks to all who have responded so far. They've all been extremely helpful and brought me one step closer in finding out what is wrong with my silly Billy. He acts completely normal so it's hard to pinpoint just what is causing this and the answer I keep circling back to is tail biting. Until now, I didn't know tail biting could lead to the gray color so I just assumed the worst and thought it might of been the graphite disease. He has a stable schedule (until recently with the increase in water changes) with stable activity outside his tank. If he's biting from boredom all of a sudden (since he never did this before) I had bought him a new plant, rearranged everything, move many different items by his tank outside, I actively play with him every day, I greet him every couple of minutes to hours, and changed up his diet. Since he's still getting worse, I'm beginning to think (if it is tail biting) it's stress related. I've walked back to what different thing had happened when I first started to notice his tail and I came up with nothing. He could also just be biting for the sake of biting.

However, it's been a week now with 5 days of AQ Salt treatment and his condition is worsening. Should I continue with conservative treatment of partial water changes (I'll have to stop AQ Salt before I reach Day 10) and warm water? I'm afraid whatever he has will spread quickly since there's always something new everyday I'm discovering from his fins. At what point should I start medication and which medication is suggested for something like this? I've done so much research and none actually pinpoint what Billy has—he sort of just has a little of everything. I'm scared to wake up one morning to find that his caudal fin completely disappeared, or find something even worse.

Again, a big thanks to those who've responded. All this help is greatly appreciated!


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've heard of people treating aggressive fin rot with medications for gram-negative bacteria. Like tetracycline or maracyn two. However I again have no personal experience with that. But if the salt isn't helping.... I guess that would be the next step.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

freeflow246 said:


> I've heard of people treating aggressive fin rot with medications for gram-negative bacteria. Like tetracycline or maracyn two. However I again have no personal experience with that. But if the salt isn't helping.... I guess that would be the next step.



I did read somewhere that tetracycline is a good medication but, like you, I've never had this problem with my very first betta years and years ago and I've never used this medication before. I wasn't sure if it would help with my case or not but I guess if I'm very careful, it wouldn't hurt to try it.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

tetracycline is a good broad spectrum antibiotic and should destroy any normal bacterial guests, however the mycobacterium that causes the mystery disease is antibiotic resistant, so fingers crossed we see an improvement.
There are other antibiotics available if that fails but tetracycline targets a large range of both gram negative and positive, so it is a great place to start.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

Taeanna said:


> tetracycline is a good broad spectrum antibiotic and should destroy any normal bacterial guests, however the mycobacterium that causes the mystery disease is antibiotic resistant, so fingers crossed we see an improvement.
> There are other antibiotics available if that fails but tetracycline targets a large range of both gram negative and positive, so it is a great place to start.


Sounds good to me. I'll be sure to pick some up and try it out. Thank you very much for this information! Very much appreciated.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

I'm hesitant to make another new thread on this since I've made several already.

Billy went on almost a full treatment (tonight is his last dose) of Tetracycline. He looked like he was getting better by Day 2 and 3, with the black crusty stuff finally falling off and the fin dissolving had stopped. But the black coloring on the edges reappeared last night. I will be adding him on the last dose of Tetracycline just to finish the full treatment and he will be going on one week break from medication to allow his body to recover from this first treatment. The Tetracycline box states that you can reuse this if the first treatment didn't work and start another full treatment. However, I'm unsure if I should pick something else up or if I should continue using the Tetracycline?

Here are a few pictures of what he looks like today. The white dots you see on his body is NOT ick. I've sat and stared at him for hours to make sure. The specs you see in the picture is just from the flash and the fact that he's due for a water change soon (box says 25% every 2 days). 

Here's one side:











Here's the other side:




















Before the medication, I was making 50%-100% daily water changes (depends how gross the water is looking) with at least two 100% changes every week. I suspect this is now fin rot and I've tried conservative treatment a few weeks ago when I thought he was fin biting, with daily water changes. His behavior is the same as always and eats very well. I've read a lot on fin rot and what to do with stubborn fin rot and most of them suggest Maracyn. However, it seems as though they've discontinued making this since I can't find it anywhere. Any suggestions?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

If the tetracycline was working then it IS a bacterial infection. if it returns you have two options which are to continue medication or a more aggressive approach than I have ever used which is to cut off the infected fin.
Some hard core aquarium stores may be able to either do it for you or point you to specialists who can if you dont feel you can do this yourself or if your local vet will not (not all vets have much expereince with fish). This is really your call since wether it will work I cannot say with any degree of certainty- the infection always starts on the fin and moves in.

If you do choose to try the fin method I do recommend you get a new fresh tank (critter keeper, bucket, whatever you can grab) and use it as a tank until you can clean his real tank out and leave it in the sun for at least a full day, preferably 2-3 (UV light kills a lot of bacteria- between the heat the dry and the UV you should give it a good sterilize)


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

Taeanna said:


> If the tetracycline was working then it IS a bacterial infection. if it returns you have two options which are to continue medication or a more aggressive approach than I have ever used which is to cut off the infected fin.
> Some hard core aquarium stores may be able to either do it for you or point you to specialists who can if you dont feel you can do this yourself or if your local vet will not (not all vets have much expereince with fish). This is really your call since wether it will work I cannot say with any degree of certainty- the infection always starts on the fin and moves in.
> 
> If you do choose to try the fin method I do recommend you get a new fresh tank (critter keeper, bucket, whatever you can grab) and use it as a tank until you can clean his real tank out and leave it in the sun for at least a full day, preferably 2-3 (UV light kills a lot of bacteria- between the heat the dry and the UV you should give it a good sterilize)



Thank you for replying. 

I've tried to look up local vets that specialize in fish to see if they can help me, but alas nothing in my area unless I'm willing to take a day's drive. I'm far too terrified to try something as drastic as cutting anything off, or even touching them with my fingers. I will try to look up any nearby aquarium stores and see if I can make calls and ask them beforehand. It's rather terrifying to even think about it but I understand why it's done and if done properly and carefully, it's safe.

I've only left one plant for him to rest near the top (I need to replace his betta hammock leaf) and a plastic mesh tube to hide in while I treated his tank with Tetracycline so I suppose I'll have to sterilize those two. I've handled the other tanks after changing his water and fed food to my other bettas with only a rinse. If this requires sterilization, have I already contaminated my other two bettas? I had no idea bacterial infected fin rot would be this way. After all the research, I can't believe I haven't crossed this information! I do, however, thoroughly wash with hot water (not boiling) the tanks and decorations (including the glass pebbles I use in place of gravel) once a week, sometimes twice a week, on all tanks. But if this thing can spread, do I need to sterilize the other tanks completely?

Will Nitrofurazone medication work better? Or is it best to just stick with the Tetracycline for another full treatment? 

I'm rather upset that I didn't take the precaution of washing thoroughly with soap before handling the other bettas I have... I honestly had no idea fin rot can be this way .


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

If tetracycline has gone for its full cycle and you see a return then you can switch to a different medication and hope for the best. Every antibiotic has a different mechanism of action and you may manage to find one able to coax the bacteria into eating the component you need
One thing you will have to consider however is that once this infection has been taken care of your boy will be delicate for a while. The antibiotics will wipe out the good bacteria in his gut and make him very sensitive- dont be suprised to see mild infections appearing afterwards (I have a boy that had to have an immune system knockout when i got him thanks to a combo of nasty infections, to this day he still sometimes loses fins- his poor dorsal  )


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

Taeanna said:


> If tetracycline has gone for its full cycle and you see a return then you can switch to a different medication and hope for the best. Every antibiotic has a different mechanism of action and you may manage to find one able to coax the bacteria into eating the component you need
> One thing you will have to consider however is that once this infection has been taken care of your boy will be delicate for a while. The antibiotics will wipe out the good bacteria in his gut and make him very sensitive- dont be suprised to see mild infections appearing afterwards (I have a boy that had to have an immune system knockout when i got him thanks to a combo of nasty infections, to this day he still sometimes loses fins- his poor dorsal  )


Ah, thank you for informing me about that. I will be sure to continue to stare creepily into his tank while he swims around and monitor him carefully in the upcoming months. 

I'll try a different medication and hope that it works and save me the heartache of slicing anything off.

Thank you, again, for all your help! I appreciate it immensely! I will keep this updated with any further news of his recovery.


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## Prcsholl (Jun 10, 2014)

If you have a petsmart in your area you may be able to get some help from them if you decide the bacteria is too aggressive and he needs a fin shave. My local petsmart helped me remove large parasites from one of my female bettas in store as well as helping me with a fin shave on six of my guppies that had a terrifying bacterial infection that was extremely aggressive. The lady that helpedme was the actual vet that takes care of the fish at that petsmart. I called them and they informed me that their aquarium vet came in every thursday and that I could bring my fish in and have them looked at in store. I don't know if they do this at every store though, my petsmart has an amazing aquarium section, with it's own "fish hospital".


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## myexplodingcat (Apr 9, 2014)

Pendulum said:


> I'm rather upset that I didn't take the precaution of washing thoroughly with soap before handling the other bettas I have... I honestly had no idea fin rot can be this way .


If your other fish aren't fin biting, you're probably fine. This kind of bacteria seems like it needs an open wound in order to take hold, or at least a compromised immune system. Especially if it is just fin rot.

If your other bettas do nibble on their fins or are already sick, you'll probably want to do a full water change and maybe rinse the tank/gravel with diluted white vinegar. That should knock out the better part of the risk. Be sure to acclimate carefully afterwards.

When in doubt, assume the disease can spread and take action to avoid cross-contamination. If that means giving a fish net a vinegar dip and a solid rinse, better safe than sorry--it won't hurt anything if the disease isn't contagious, anyway.

Don't beat yourself up too much about this, though. Your sick boy is spooking you pretty badly, and that's only natural. But it's making you panic about your other fish, I think more than you need to.

Treat your boy, and then get yourself some ice cream.

PS: If you can't find a medication in stores, look on the Internet. eBay and Amazon are your friends.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

Prcsholl said:


> If you have a petsmart in your area you may be able to get some help from them if you decide the bacteria is too aggressive and he needs a fin shave. My local petsmart helped me remove large parasites from one of my female bettas in store as well as helping me with a fin shave on six of my guppies that had a terrifying bacterial infection that was extremely aggressive. The lady that helpedme was the actual vet that takes care of the fish at that petsmart. I called them and they informed me that their aquarium vet came in every thursday and that I could bring my fish in and have them looked at in store. I don't know if they do this at every store though, my petsmart has an amazing aquarium section, with it's own "fish hospital".


I do have a Petsmart a few minutes from here, but their fish selection is much smaller than our Petco. I'll give both a call and see if they, too, have some sort of aquarium vet who comes in or if they can point me to someone who can help. Thank you very much for suggesting this since I never really would of thought about it.




myexplodingcat said:


> When in doubt, assume the disease can spread and take action to avoid cross-contamination. If that means giving a fish net a vinegar dip and a solid rinse, better safe than sorry--it won't hurt anything if the disease isn't contagious, anyway.
> 
> Don't beat yourself up too much about this, though. Your sick boy is spooking you pretty badly, and that's only natural. But it's making you panic about your other fish, I think more than you need to.
> 
> ...


My other two bettas are very healthy and are not (for the time being) biting. I do have a net for emergencies or if my bettas are being butts but for the most part, I use a plastic cup. I can easily replace it and have a separate cups for each one.

The only reason why I'm so overly worried is because I've tried just about every conservative method of treatment and I try very hard to make sure their living environment is the best as I can provide for them at all times. A lot of the things I read online say, "caused by poor water quality" or treatment and it's just upsetting that this can still happen in great water conditions. He still acts very healthy and happy so I guess I just feel very bad for him.

I have looked at Amazon for medicines but I decided to try what we have in our local stores first. I mostly researched the ingredients used in these medicines and while I understand each brand makes their medicines differently, the active ingredient is still the same. Maracyn doesn't come up on Amazon or eBay but they show up on Google. If none of the things the local stores carry are working, I'll buy the ones I can't find in local stores online and try those. 

But I'm confident that I'm doing my best and everything I possibly can and it's just a matter of finding the right treatment. In the meanwhile, I can enjoy watching him eat like a piggy and chase his colorful straw around .


Thanks again for all the help, guys!


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