# Mysterious Betta Fish Death



## snorthcountry (Mar 22, 2015)

... or perhaps not so mysterious. I'm hoping to find out what may have killed my betta, Carl.

Carl was a veil finned betta, of unknown origin. He was supplied by the college as part of a study in my biology class, about two years ago, regarding the agnostic displays of male bettas. He was considerably larger than all of the other bettas, which led me to believe he may have been older and perhaps someone's pet, but as far as my instructor knew, they were all from a pet store.

Once the experiment ended, some of the students volunteered to give the bettas a home. I was one of those students. Carl began his first few months in a small, half gallon glass bowl. My living situation, at the time, made it very difficult to maintain a comfortable temperature for Carl (he was always cold) and I had to clean out his small bowl frequently (1-2/week). Having grown fed up with my dwelling, for other reasons, I moved to a place where a constant and comfortable temperature could be maintained and soon upgraded Carl to a 1.5 gallon filtered tank with a thermometer, so I could ensure the temperature was always within his "comfort zone". 

Even with the filter, I still cleaned Carl's tank 2-4 times per month (more water changes were needed when I would replace the filter media). Later, I added an ottocinclus, Auto, to help keep the brown algae under control. Carl and Auto seemed to live together just fine, even after I upgraded them to a bigger tank in December 2014-- 2.6 gallon Fluval Spec. Initially, the flow produced by the filter was strong, but after turning it down, Carl was able to engage in his normal behaviors as he always had-- his favorite of which was patrolling his tank or lounging in either his log or his "hammock". The only thing he ever did that I thought was odd, happened on two separate occasions. For no apparent reason, he would be swimming along and would seem to "pass out" and start to sink. When I saw it the first time, I was alarmed and ran to grab my net, but when I returned he was swimming normally as though nothing had happened. Two months later, just as I was about to feed him his dinner, it happened again. Once more, I grabbed my net. Just as I took the lid off his aquarium, he "came to" and began swimming around normally again. So, I fed him a pellet and turned out the light. It was the last time I would see Carl alive. The next morning, he was lying at the bottom of his tank, dead.

I have never had this happen to a betta fish. I'm familiar with conditions like swim bladder disease, but fish affected by this condition seem to always be experiencing symptoms. They're always floating or sinking listlessly and when they do try to swim the struggle to do so is very apparent. Carl never struggled. It was precisely as I described: he would appear to "pass out" for no reason, then "come to" and begin swimming normally again. Has anyone ever had this happen to a betta? Was it environment related? Diet related? Any feedback would be appreciated.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Honestly, based on the care Carl received during his life, I am not surprised that he died suddenly. First in the 1/2 gallon bowl, he was subjected to what sounds like fluctuating temperatures and very likely, poor water quality. 

Once he moved into the 1.5 gallon tank, you talk about keeping the temperature within his 'comfort zone', what was this 'comfort zone'? Again, I would also wonder about water quality, as without test kits, you have no way of knowing whether or not he was being exposed to ammonia/nitrite. Especially if you were replacing the filter media, which would disrupt any cycle that had managed to establish itself. 

Finally, you then added an otocinclus, without quarantine, which had the potential to introduce all sorts of pathogens into the tank. Also IMO, you overstocked the 2.6 gallon tank with these two fish, which can again lead to issues with water quality.

Carl's death may have had nothing to do with the care he received, but I think it was likely it was influenced by it. Sometimes fish can live in poor conditions for very long times, and then all of a sudden it catches up with them, and they die.


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## violettec (Jan 3, 2015)

I would think of a few important things that affect the health of a betta:

1. Lack of stable water temps between 78 - 80
2. Lack of correct water parameters - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate at a tolerable level (below 40 ppm generally).
3. Lack of properly conditioned water (no chloramines, chlorine)
4. Dirty water (germs, parasites, etc.)
5. Food quality and amount fed

If he was exposed to any of the above at a harmful level for too long, it can affect his body negatively. Although a fish may not die immediately, long term damage can result and they may eventually succumb. Hard to say specifically what killed him unless a necropsy is performed. If we had water parameter measurements over time, feeding logs, they may be good indicators.


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## snorthcountry (Mar 22, 2015)

Well, this has been enlightening.

Betta sites-- this one included-- served as my reference for Carl's care. Twice weekly water changes was the recommendation for a half gallon tank-- a recommendation from numerous betta "experts" on this site as well as many others. There were seldom occasions when his water change was done once a week-- emphasis on *seldom*. I never imagined this would have shortened his lifespan so dramatically. I had resigned to the possibility of the fluctuating water temperatures during those first few months causing issues later in his life, but no other "expert"-- from sites like this one-- expressed concerns and even went as far as to say that he likely experienced worse conditions on the pet store shelf so, what will be will be. His water quality being a contributing factor had never been brought to my attention. A pH test kit was recommended by *one *expert, but I was also told that due to the frequency at which his water was changed, there was likely no registerable nitrate or ammonia. 

The ottocinclus was quarantined-- I guess I assumed that was a given. Also, the ottocinclus was recommended for the size of my tank--again, by betta "experts"-- to control the algae. The only other recommendation was to increase the frequency at which the water was changed. So, I began weekly full water changes to compensate for the addition of the ottocinclus. My biggest challenge-- or so I thought at the time-- was determining what the ideal temperature was for a betta. One expert said 72-75, another said 75-77, someone else said 77-80, then another said over 78 will make them hyperactive and cause them to eat too much and produce too much feces-- there seemed to be no standard for what temperature to maintain for a betta tank. I kept Carl's tank between 75 & 77. At this temperature, he continued to explore his tank and maintained a good appetite. 

I guess my point is, it seems that these websites are overrun by self-proclaimed experts, and no one can be sure the information they receive is sound. I thought I was doing the right thing by using betta sites for advice on betta care, but when my betta dies after receiving care recommended by "experts" on these sites and I present my case on these same sites, I'm met with contradictions and acusations from more "experts":

_"Honestly, based on the care Carl received during his life, I am not surprised that he died suddenly"._

So, who am I supposed to believe? What defines an "expert" on betta fish care? Perhaps these are the fundamental questions I should have been asking on these forums, since everyone considers themselves an "expert"-- regardless of whether or not they're qualified to give advice. 

"Disappointing" is probably a better adjective to use than "enlightening", because this has truly been a disappointing experience.


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## MissShinku (Jan 22, 2015)

I've never heard anybody on this website promote a .5g bowl as a proper home nor have I seen anybody recommend any sort of tank mates for something smaller than a 5 gallon. The research is on *you*. Do not rely entirely on others' words. Use websites like aqadvisor to figure out stocking and some of the numerous fish information databases to see what other fish, if any, can fit in your aquarium and are compatible. None of which would say it is ok for an oto to fit with a betta in such a small tank.

As a matter of fact, nearly everybody here recommends no less than a 2.5 gallon tank, with 5 being the preferred minimum. A betta can not live a worthwhile life in anything smaller for extended periods of time.

-

EDIT: I, too started out with a .5 gallon "tank" and yet within a month ended up with a heated and filtered 5.5 with silk/real plants. How? I did my research and yes, even used this website as a guide. I don't think you really have anybody to blame but yourself, I'm really trying my best to not come across as rude here, but I can't think of how else to reply. You seem to be trying to push the blame on an entire community when that is simply not the case. I feel sorry for your loss and wish you luck with your next betta, if you choose to get one.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, simply because someone is a member of a forum and has a lot of posts to their name does not make them an expert. For example, I have only been in this hobby a handful of years, and really only specialise in one particular group of wild bettas. Yes, I have some general knowledge in other areas of fish keeping, and try to further this knowledge by constantly reading and researching, but I am certainly not be comfortable describing myself as an 'expert'. 

I am surprised that initially you were told a 1/2 gallon tank would be acceptable accommodation for a betta, particularly with the water only being changed a 1-2 times a week. IME, the majority of members on this forum (and I would assume others) seem to push for a minimum of 1 gallon and over. Ammonia can accumulate surprisingly fast in a 1/2 gallon bowl. Bettas seem to be able to tolerate exposure to higher levels of ammonia better than many other species of fish, and so without a test kit, it would be very difficult to determine whether Carl was being exposed to potentially dangerous levels during the time he was in the 1/2 gallon bowl. I've had tanks where the ammonia has spiked very high and it was only that the fish were more skittish than usual, that I could tell something was wrong without the use of my test kit. 

A temperature range of 75-77 degrees is fine for this species, provided it was consistently within this range. The trouble with unheated smaller tanks and bowls is that the temperature will fluctuate a lot more quickly than in larger tanks. Temperature fluctuations lead to stress, which can compromise the immune system in fish and trigger outbreaks of disease/parasites. 

Personally I think otocinclus are a very abused fish in this hobby. They are actually an active, schooling fish, that can be extremely sensitive (as the majority are wild-caught and poorly treated in transit), and need to be almost constantly grazing on soft algae/diatoms, or suitable substitutes. A lot of people do keep them singly and in very small tanks, but having seen how they live in the wild, and their behaviour when put into a larger space, I certainly think they are not a fish for small tanks. 

It's always sad to lose a fish, and this hobby can have a very steep learning curve. Frustratingly, much of the information passed around on forums, websites, and FB groups, is not grounded in hard, scientific fact. I agree it can be hard to navigate your way through this hobby when there are so many conflicting opinions. I really can't offer any solution to this problem. All I can say is when you stay on forums long enough, you do start to see who actually knows their stuff, who is just parroting back what they have heard/read, and who has no idea what they are talking about, but would like you to think that they do.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

This Betta forum is, without doubt, the largest single-species fish forum on the internet. It is subscribed to, not by experts, but by hobbyists, keepers with a variety of experience from a few months, to over 20-years, to as much as a lifetime in the myriad aspects of the hobby -- all of us still learning. 

After you've spent a few weeks here (not just hours or days) researching Betta care, you'll start to see a pattern, a concensus among the members regarding "good practice" in Betta keeping. While there may be disagreements or variations in detail, the bulk of the good advice will soon become apparent. It's sort of like the Wiki information websites -- a self-correcting, evolving body of group knowledge.

Having survived as long as 2-years in a less than optimum environment, Carl proved he was a very strong and stoic fish. I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you have a better experience should you choose to keep another fish.

Welcome to the forum.


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## christinaporreca (Feb 22, 2015)

It's just what happens in the learning process. I started off with my current betta in such a small bowl I can't even believe it looking back on it. After one day of looking up information about their lifestyle and what they prefer I immediately upgraded I'm to a 3 gallon tank and watched him grow! It was amazing the change he displayed.

Now he's older and not doing well. Its my fault for keeping him in a cold bowl for a year, but because of that my betta's now are in 5 gallons with a heater. 

Theres no one to blame, just learn a lesson!


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

There is no expert here just people with experiences and what they learned


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

FWIW, this is the OPs first post to this forum. So nobody *here* gave him/her all that misinformation. Just saying.


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## jato (Jan 12, 2015)

Ilovebettasbk11 said:


> There is no expert here just people with experiences and what they learned


+1

Most of us pass along what we know to help how we can  I am definitely no expert!

But, my guess would be internal damage over time and old age. Bettas can live anywhere from 3-5 years and even up depending on the betta. Most bettas are a year old when purchased. 3 years is average. So, his age along with his living conditions (you did what you could, remember, his life with you will always be better than what he would have had at a store) did not help to prolong his life.

In people, "passing out" randomly is generally related to a cardiac (mainly) or a neurological condition. His death, while a tad bit strange, SEEMS to be due to his age and life style finally coming to an end.

All are simply guesses though. I am no veterinarian or aquatic specialist. Just simply a senior nursing student about to graduate


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That's a fair analysis, jato. 

I can't imagine a Betta being a year old when sold. A breeder will ship the fish out as soon as it's colored up enough to sell. That would be less than 90 days. The petstore is not into keeping them for very long.


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## jato (Jan 12, 2015)

Hallyx said:


> That's a fair analysis, jato.
> 
> I can't imagine a Betta being a year old when sold. A breeder will ship the fish out as soon as it's colored up enough to sell. That would be less than 90 days. The petstore is not into keeping them for very long.


I believe I read this somewhere else too so I did some research and found out I had been misinformed about selling age! 90 days makes much more sense anyways.

Always something to learn


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