# Questions about Indian Almond Leaf



## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

I am planning on getting Indian Almond Leaf off of ebay. If anyone has good links on how to use it etc I would appreciate it.

My biggest questions are: 

*Is it safe to use all the time?* (some sites have led me to believe so, but none have said for sure that I have found.)

*How much of a leaf should I put into a 2 gal. /3gal/ 10 gal?*

*Does it affect your PH? (or GH/KH?)
* 
*How long should a leaf stay in the water before being removed? (or should I make a tea and do water changes with it?)*

*Does a carbon filter remove the good properties of the leaf?*

I have more questions, but if anyone can answer even one or two of them, I would appreciate it very much.

**Also so I don't have to make another thread, has anyone used the pro-biotic additives for freshwater aquariums? (Stuff like this, there are a few different brands that appear to do similar things: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3975+4262&pcatid=4262 )

Thank you! (Storm and Chula also thank you


----------



## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

The amount of leaves to use can depend on the desired use, but generally 1 leaf (6-10 inch) per 10g is good. You don't need to remove the leaves until they start to disintegrate, usually in 3-4 weeks. But some people like to remove them when they start to get slimey. You can use them for everyday use but many just use it as a medication due to the filter problem. Activated carbon (most filter media) will negate the tannins in the IAL, so be careful of that.


----------



## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

Most folks agree that the probiotic stuff is a waste of money. I personally DO like Stress Zyme, but I'm not convinced it actually helps.


----------



## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

The seller I highly recommend is Amy Lim on ebay. She offers reasonable prices, shipping is really fast, especially considering it is from overseas, and the quality of the leaves is great. 

It is perfectly safe to use all the time. These leaves are a part of the betta's natural habitat. For smaller tanks, I would get the smallest leaves you can find; even the small leaves were much bigger than I expected! How many leaves you use depends on how dark you want the water to be. And of course how many you use per tank depends on what size you end up with.

From what I understand they can lower pH, but usually not by much, and it also depends on other factors (like water hardness). You can steep them in warm water (make sure it's not too hot, that will alter the chemistry and reduce their effectiveness) to make a black water extract. I've also heard of some people placing them in the filter. I think it's much easier just to use the leaves themselves, but I understand many people don't like the aesthetics of leaves in their tank, so how you use them is really just a personal preference. I change them when they start to get slimey, which is usually a few weeks.

Yes, a carbon filter will remove the tannins. I cut open all of my filter media and pour out the carbon, replacing it with plain aquarium sponge. This gives nitrifying bacteria a place to grow, and also doesn't filter out the tannins from the IAL.


----------



## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you so much Harley and nowzem! between the two of you you answered every question but the one on changing the water chemistry! 

I have a few more though, and I am sorry if all of these are really dumb questions but you have helped me a ton so far.

I personally set out to get IAL to help my fish heal their fins since it has antiseptic properties, and they have holes that are just are not healing. Both came with damage from the store. Also I was hoping it would help my mom's betta Moose recover faster naturally. He is eating now, and almost back to his old self thanks to some wonderful advise!  I hope it will make his water more comfortable, and since he is old, maybe help boost his immune system up. I will have a ton of leaves soon either way. I am getting the 200 grams of C+ quality leaves from Amy since she has good reviews from here, and on ebay.

*Will IAL stain a plastic tank, or the aquarium sealant in my 10 gal?*

*Would IAL be good to add to a tank if I just get a fish to aid in stress? Or in the case of my first betta who HATES light, would this be a good way to maybe make him more comfortable?* (It seems strange Storm gets so freaked out about light, and is starting to have bad aim when he is striking at pellets.. and yes he goes after them like he is trying to kill them, he also chews them and you can hear him crunching on them through the water. Chula and my moms betta never have made noise eating...)

*I was wondering about that blackwater extract too since it was available in my pet store, and if it did the same thing?* I read the bottle and it didn't really say much more then it created an amazon river environment for your fish. Since betta don't come from the amazon, but do come from darker water, I didn't know if they would benefit from this stuff. It is readily available and I would be willing to buy it if it is good for them.

Here is my last one, that sounds really silly....

I don't _*EVER*_ plan on fighting my fish, which is I guess what he means on his site (Thailand), but *does prolonged use really make your betta's scales tougher?* If it does would a pet fish/show fish benefit from tougher scales? Does this mean that it helps the slime coat? Or maybe just give trace minerals to help scale formation?

TY Lola as well you posted while I was writing this. I appreciate all the help, and sorry for silly questions.


----------



## jackals (Jul 20, 2010)

how dark will IALs make the water? I dont want to darken the water really...


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Jackals: the darkness depends on how long you leave it in there and how large the leaf is. Think of them like you would tea leaves for tea.

Twilight storm: I can only answer the first and last one seeing as it's the only one I know. The tannins will decrease light, making the water darker and very similar to how a wild betta's habitat would be. As such, it can reduce stress and help the betta feel safer. The tannins do make for stronger scales. I think the tannins provide bettas what they need for stronger and healthier scales.


----------



## jackals (Jul 20, 2010)

JKfish said:


> Jackals: the darkness depends on how long you leave it in there and how large the leaf is. Think of them like you would tea leaves for tea.
> 
> Twilight storm: I can only answer the first and last one seeing as it's the only one I know. The tannins will decrease light, making the water darker and very similar to how a wild betta's habitat would be. As such, it can reduce stress and help the betta feel safer. The tannins do make for stronger scales. I think the tannins provide bettas what they need for stronger and healthier scales.



My guy has minor fin rot and small bacteria/fungus spot on his back side.. I have him in QT bowl cause he was in neglected water hence the rot... doing epsom salt and slime coat conditioner for him. he is improving. *OFL and others have said get tannins in his water... so indian almond leaves will work.. Is there a liquid equivalent of this I can buy online that are drops like conditioner that have tannins which does the same thing as these leaves?*


----------



## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

If there is an oak tree near you that isn't exposed to pesticides or chemicals in general, you can use dried oak leaves. They'd work just as well.


----------



## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

jackals said:


> My guy has minor fin rot and small bacteria/fungus spot on his back side.. I have him in QT bowl cause he was in neglected water hence the rot... doing epsom salt and slime coat conditioner for him. he is improving. *OFL and others have said get tannins in his water... so indian almond leaves will work.. Is there a liquid equivalent of this I can buy online that are drops like conditioner that have tannins which does the same thing as these leaves?*



I will try to find the posts about tannins I found, for you to read Jackles. It might take some time though since I have read soooooooooo many posts here and I can't search well.

If it was not a specific tannin, Indian Almond Leaf, Decaf green tea, and oak leaves could be good if you can find some you know have not been sprayed with pesticide, there is a special way to use each one though, and I have no personal experience with any, but I will try to search for the threads I saw talking about them. 

As far as liquid goes Ocean Nutrition Atison's Betta Spa is Liquid IAL+ Yucca extract. If you don't mind ordering online it should be easy to get.

Thank you JKfish, and everyone who has replied. Again I am sorry for the questions. I appreciate it!  I am printing this and some other threads, so I can refer back to them. 

Thank you so much again


----------



## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

Twilight Storm said:


> *Will IAL stain a plastic tank, or the aquarium sealant in my 10 gal?*
> 
> I'm not sure but I've never heard of anyone complain about it.
> 
> ...


And yes, I've heard Amy Lin is pretty good. The only reason I didn't order from her was she was selling like a 100 leaves at once (at least at that time) and I didn't think I needed that many :lol:


----------

