# Dear mods - is this okay?



## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

A few of us would like to collaborate on a really comprehensive plant/planted tank info thread. I thought as there's several of us, it might be easier to hold discussions of who is doing what for it here, rather than PM'ing back and forth for every little thing. And we can request the thread deleted when the posts go up for real. Also, people may like to add suggestions/info here, in case we forget something, saves you being asked to edit posts for us.

Does that sound okay to you?

The people who'd be using this thread are:

kfryman
Aus
ravenwinds

and OldFishLady if she agrees to help out, when I ask her. =P


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Aus, 
I've done a somewhat bare bottom planted tank before. As in none of my plants were actually... planted. it worked wonderfully. and will work exceptionally well for those people who loves to move things around.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like a great idea...


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

You could get Mo to help or incorporate the thread she already made, it's in my siggy :-D


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Yes, that's a good idea. Mo's plant thread is great for the easy care plants.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Okay, here's a few tasks I think need doing. Some may take some research  :

- List of undesirable submersed plants & pictures.* 
(I'm already on this - Aus)*

- List of plants useful to water quality in NPT (ammonia & nitrate sinks, roots plants, floaters) with pics & fert/light needs.

- How to set up and maintain both a small and a large NPT with stage by stage pics if possible.

- Description of the various 'planted' tanks you can have (barebottom, inert substrate, active substrate (plant feeding gravels), NPT, maybe even riparium? -- with general outlay costs, descriptions and pictures.

- Post on lighting for planted tanks, including info on white vs blue/red light, kelvins watts and other light measurements and what they mean for the tank, LED, flourescent, incandescant, halide, low light, high light, how much light for what size tank, etc. 

- How to cope with/avoid algal bloom, including list of relevant fixes/products. 


whew... I have run out of ideas.  Hands up for any of those jobs. Ideas welcome.


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## Shadyr (Mar 27, 2012)

Hey, I can help you with a picture of an undesirable plant that new people (like myself at the time) might be suckered into getting! I bought a tubed plant that turned out to be a Dracaena variegatus from Petsmart and was told by the people there that they were fully aquatic. I thought they looked very sharp in the tank. While they *are* water loving they are *not* aquatic, one did eventually die, rot, and led to a bout of flicking which I suspect is when Ghost damaged an eye (he's blind or near blind on one side now)

Terribly enough, I think this is my official picture for Ghost's tank. I need to update it to show off his lot of ACTUAL water plants!


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## Spazzfish (Feb 12, 2012)

If you guys have the time it would be cool if you could find certian shrimp that eat algea fish that make good "gardners" (eat algea or something like that.) I have a baby chines algea eateer and he keeps my plants and decor spotless(but he wont take the green stuff off the glass) he even swims up the filter outflow and nibbles on that stuff.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I'll try to do the different substrates and which plants do well with each substrate.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Great suggestions - and awesome pic. It'd be great to have a lot of members contribute their own pics/experiences like that here on this thread so we can add them in.  Makes all it quite unique to the forum.

Mo, I think kfryman and raven were on the plants/substrates.. let me check? Your input would be great, though - your plant thread here is really good. I notice you breed shrimp and snails.. would you be interested in doing the post requested above by Spazzfish on shrimp/snail tank companions for algae control/which ones are best/ which to avoid/how to keep them healthy/what size tank with a betta, etc? Those get asked about a lot, as well as algae issues, so that'd be awesome if someone experienced with both could do that.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

what about something like a thread with pictures of eachother's tanks. and a little thing to fill out with information about there tank such as stocking, substrate type, plants, water change schedule, age, If its a natural planted tank or not, Co2, lighting and fertilizers added,


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

If you like the first part. If you like it I'll finish the rest with different substrate types. please gives opinions


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

This is a guide to any type of planted tank, and the different substrates used with the benefits of each one. 


*The Bare - Bottomed Tank 

Plant Selection**

Floating Plants* 

Anacharis
Hornwort
Frogbit
Duckweed
 *Non Substrate Rooted plants*




Java Fern
Anubias Nana
 

*Moss*




Christmas Moss
Java moss
Willow moss
 

*Benefits*


There are many Benefits to a bare bottomed tank. The Benefits differ between opinion and differ between each person as each person has a different preference in how they want a tank to look or what plants they are limited to. A bare bottomed tank will limit you to only Floating or Non Substrate Rooted Plants which I find con, There are some things I do like about the Bare Bottomed Tank. In My Opinion I think These style tanks are very easy to clean as waste will sit on the bottom of the tank instead of falling in the cracks and crevices of the gravel which in turn, fouls the water, with this style tank you can just simply use a turkey baster or siphon to remove any waste, debris or uneaten food. With a bare bottomed tank you can easily plant are rearrange your aquatic plants without the hassle of constantly uprooting and replanting the plants, In My Experience, tanks with gravel tend to have a betta with ripped edges of there fins as the gravel is sometimes sharp. 



*Pro's*




Easy to clean
Easy to aquascape with
Since there is no substrate the edges of a bettas fins will not rip
great for floating plants
easy to maintain
 

*Con's*




Cannot Have certain plants
Sometimes waste and debris will become unsightly
No substrate can be unsightly to some people, it differs between opinions


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Mo, that's great A 'show us your planted tank' thread!

.. would you like to kick that one off? :-D

It''ll need the 'form' to fill out. Maybe a dsclaimer to the effect that any tank with live plants is welcome to be in it.. 

& a request to resize pics to fit the forum would be awesome.. >< some are so big! they take all day to load...but maybe that bothers just me 

I love this idea!

(And yes, that first part is very cool)


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah, that would be awesome. I'll kick it off..... Once we have a form


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

What will we put in it? You suggested: 


Substrate type:
Plant species:
Water change schedule:
Age of tank:
Co2:
Lighting
Fertilizers:
Stock:

Anything else? (I think the NPT question goes with 'substrate type', yes?)


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I think that that is great! Should I start the thread


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

:thumbsup:

I liked the dimension/volume bit too!


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Okay. I'll start it right now!


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

OldFishLady.. I wondered if you'd do us a step by step 'How To NPT' type thread.. maybe with some pics? If no pics, we can probably dig some up..

That sort of step by step / pictoral guide is really useful.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Oh and aus, would you like me to finish the substrate guide, I made the bare bottomed portion to see if you liked it. And whether or not I should keep making the rest like it


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Mo, did you see my post on p1? About the inverts/algae?

Yes, I like it! I am not sure if kfryman or raven had already started something like that tho - can I check first?

PS awwwwesommme planted tank thread! (love your tanks!)


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I could also get pictures of some other plants, I have frogbit, duckweed, water lettuce, micro swords, Anubias, rotala, ludwigia depend, hygro (I'll find the name in a sec), small variety of swords, amazon swords, guppy grass, dwarf sag, and hornwort. If you need pictures on any of those tell me.

I would be willing to do substrates and help with lights and plant pictures. I can try to get underwater pictures of the plants if you would like as well. So just tell me.

I'll hop on the computer and get started with substrates.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Pictures -- yesss! 

The lights are beyond me.. I wouldn't know a watt from my butt, so you're welcome to those!

If you're doing substrates, and Mo's already done a barebottom tank bit, you could post them together in one thread? Maybe a mod can help with organising that, so the posts follow one another. 

Mo has a lovely barebottom jar. I think Aokashi has some nice pics of their bare-bottom tanks as well..


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I just set up anther micro bare bottom tank, I'll post pictures once The water clears up. And yeah, Ill need to finish some of the substrate guide tomorrow, right now. I still need to do lots more research before ai post an article on it


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I have a gravel tank, and gravel and dirt, however you can't see the dirt.

I am familiar with lights now, CFL, T8, T5, LEDs, and metal halide. I am also familiar with the energy the take and the output, as well as the effective ness. I have all those types of lights except metal halide and LEDs, but those are easy to come up with.

I think emailing the documents might be easier, as this the end product will be much too long.

Any fish keepers that have any planted tanks, no fake plants though, please post a picture and your tank may be starred in the completed thread. Thank You!


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Mo, what substrates do you have completed? I can do some other ones, and maybe OFL can do a special section on NPTs?

The types of substrate we should include are: bare-bottom, sand, gravel, Eco-Complete type stuff, dirted, and kitty litter ( I know sounds weird, but I have researched it).

W should try to keep it short that way the completed thread doesn't get too long, as it is gonna be a guide and some people may not like to read pages lol.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

We actually have a planted tank thread going: 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=104894

So of any nice plants shot turn up there, you could ask permission? But yes, member plant photos are very welcome here, too! Wish I had better than an iPhone to take pics with ><

Dunno about email.. you may have to ask a mod for thiers, or maybe post it up in peices, dunno how that works.. maybe PM them and ask? Get co-ordinated with Mo to share the thread? You guys can work it out. =P

Mo, are you okay to a post on barebottom tanks? Please use your little planty jar as a pic! So lovely..


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

How about.. Mo does bare-bottom, sand, gravel

and you do the other ones

and if OldFishLady agrees, she can do NPT.. 

and that's one heck of an informative group effort! I like!


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Okay. I'll work on sand and gravel right now. I just need a good planted tank with gravel in it. All I have is bare bottomed and sand


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Maybe one of the other members can give us a clear, perty sand substrate shot..


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

I already have a few sand pictures. I need a gravel one, do you have a gravel tank Aus?


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Yup! the one in the planted thread you saw - not sure it's a great example, though. Gravel's not very deep ><


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

This good?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I can get a better one if you want, that was with my phone so yeah.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

I think that one's prolly a better example than mine. OMG that fish! It's so cute. ><


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

I've poked ravenwinds about maybe doing an article on ferts.. that would be really handy...


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

We need a guide to follow, that way all the sections are the same. So should we do a brief summary then pros and cons or what? We want to keep it short though.

Okay I did fluorite and kitty litter, which I will send to Mo and can be edited or added to as I am not sure what setup we want.

I am gonna do lights as Mo is doing substrates...


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Mo put up a template of her section a page or so back..it looked good to me as a model.

I'm getting on the undesirable plants after a bit of sleep, lol :shock:

Will have that done tomorrow.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

For lights I just summed them up, I did say positive and negatives just in the summary. Aus I sent you a rough draft to see.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks for the PM kfryman, I'll include those in the article


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Mo, kfryman,...do you need a pic of an ecocomplete type substrate? My 29g gourami tank is that, what is it Caribsea? Also, my 20g is gravel...has lots more plants than one you just posted kfryman...I'll get pics put up on my photobucket profile and then, to here.

I PM aus back...don't use ferts but rarely. Could do section on it, but I have other skills/interests: 1. floating plants(i have so many, not just 1or 2...growing so well that I'm gonna start selling them! 2. I also have about 6 different mosses and have done moss walls/dividers, logs/branches and trees(looks like tree ), 3. I also have a fairly recent/active list of great places to buy plants. 4. I am very interested in true aquatics and how helpful they are at sucking up excess nutrients so this one would be good for me. 5. I am not as experienced as some (welcome aboard Mo(liked your plant articles) and OFL!), but in the last 5 mos or so, I have setup around 10 NPTs ranging in size from 2.5g to 40g.

Anyway, let me know where you think I should start.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Oh, I also breed mollies, fancy guppies, still newbie with breeding freshwater shrimp and bettas.
I also have experience with control of quite a few different types of algae...I apologize for multiple posts in a row


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Raven, perhaps an expansion on Mo's plant section on what plants uptake what out of the water, ammonia, nitrates.. perhaps a species guide to that with pics? Very useful!

And a moss section would be awesome! They are such great little plants, I'm just getting into them now. Something on scaping would also be good, if you're good at it. 

I'm working on my bit today. This is all looking so great.

kfryman, love what you sent me, thumbs up.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

This Is what I have So Far

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This is a guide to any type of planted tank, and the different substrates used with the benefits of each one. 


*The Bare - Bottomed Tank 

Plant Selection**

Floating Plants* 

Anacharis
Hornwort
Frogbit
Duckweed
 *Non Substrate Rooted plants*




Java Fern
Anubias Nana
 

*Moss*




Christmas Moss
Java moss
Willow moss
 

*Benefits*


There are many Benefits to a bare bottomed tank. The Benefits differ between opinion and differ between each person as each person has a different preference in how they want a tank to look or what plants they are limited to. A bare bottomed tank will limit you to only Floating or Non Substrate Rooted Plants which I find con, There are some things I do like about the Bare Bottomed Tank. In My Opinion I think These style tanks are very easy to clean as waste will sit on the bottom of the tank instead of falling in the cracks and crevices of the gravel which in turn, fouls the water, with this style tank you can just simply use a turkey baster or siphon to remove any waste, debris or uneaten food. With a bare bottomed tank you can easily plant are rearrange your aquatic plants without the hassle of constantly uprooting and replanting the plants, In My Experience, tanks with gravel tend to have a betta with ripped edges of there fins as the gravel is sometimes sharp. 



*Pro's*




Easy to clean
Easy to aquascape with
Since there is no substrate the edges of a bettas fins will not rip
great for floating plants
easy to maintain
 

*Con's*




Cannot Have certain plants
Sometimes waste and debris will become unsightly
No substrate can be unsightly to some people, it differs between opinions
 



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*The Sand Substrate Tank*




*Plant Selection*




*Floating Plants*




Duckweed
Rotala Rotundifolia
Anacharis
Hornwort
 

*Substrate Rooted Plants*




Amazon Swords
Micro Swords
Dwarf Hairgrass
Argentine Swords
 

*Non - Substrate Rooted Plants*




Anubias barteri
Java Fern
Anubias
 

*Moss*




Java Moss
Willow Moss
Christmas Moss
Flame Moss
 

*Bio*


Planted aquariums with a sand substrate are very pretty, the different shades and colors of the sand will not limit your creativity with this beautiful substrate, with bright light the sand almost glistens when you are using white sand. you can attain sand from a number of places, from your LFS, and LPS to a local hardware store. I personally love sand substrates as they are easy to keep clean and widen the amount of fish I can keep. Some Fish such as small Corydoras and small Loaches cannot tolerate gravel for long periods of time. Sand is easy to clean as all the debris sits on the substrate, which makes it easy to just clean up with a siphon. I use playsand as its cheap and effective. you get a large bag for something under 5 dollars and the bag lasts you a while. There are a few things that should be done with sand, you need to stir it often or have fish like corydoras, and loaches, or even Malaysian Trumpet Snails to stir it. otherwise if it isn't manually stirred or you don't have a fish/snail to do it the tank will become very smelly and the sand will be discolored.





*Pro's*




Very easy to clean
Widens the range of fish you can have
Good for Rooted plants
Widens the range of plants you can have
Very pretty
 

*Con's*




If not stirred it can become very smelly and unsightly
If not cleaned correctly it can cloud your tank
debris collecting on the surface can become unsightly
sometimes the dyes used in colored sand are toxic to fish






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*The Gravel Substrate Tank*




*Plant Selection



Floating Plants*



Duckweed
Anacharis
Rotala Indica
Hygrophila Corymbosa


*Substrate Rooted Plants*




Amazon Swords
Argentine Swords
Water Poppy
Micro Swords


*Non-Substrate Rooted Plants

*

Java Fern
Anubias Barteri var. nana
Anubias Barteri var. Coffefolia


*Moss*




Flame Moss
Christmas Moss
Java Moss
Willow Moss




*Bio*


A planted tank with gravel is very stunning and will look gorgeous with the assorted different pebble sizes and different colors mixed. I personally like the natural colored gravel and fine pebbles as they are very natural and exhibit what a lake or stream would look like, The only down side about gravel is that it limits what fish you can have. With rough edged gravel such as the ones you can find readily at walmart or petsmart you cannot have small corydoras, like pygmy, panda, and Habrosus or loaches like kuhli loaches. I do like though that with gravel you can make "slopes" and paths due to the Colors available, with sand you cannot do that as usually after a while it mixes. Gravel will widen the range of plants you can have though opposed to Bare bottomed. Many rooted plants will thrive in a planted tank with gravel





*Pro's*




Very Pretty
Widens the range of plants
readily available
you can be creative with it


*Con's*




Becomes very dirty if all areas aren't siphoned regularly
Makes the range of fish smaller
Some people don't like brightly colored gravel
If not cleaned correctly it can cloud your tank


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Looks really good, Mo!

I'm almost done with my plants to avoid list - will be posting the thread in a short while.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I need to start finding pictures for the lights. So how are we putting this together? Should we just send all the information to one person and they put it all together and post it? Maybe at the end or beginning you can have a thing where it says, of you need any help or clarification PM one of us (saying our names of course) and just link the thread.


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## DazedBetta (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post here or not so I want to say sorry now. I just want to say I'm really excited for the finished product I been checking this nearly every day and I was wondering if you guys could add a personal favorite part? Like what your favorite substrate is and plants. Once again I'm sry for posting here and cant wait thank you guys for taking the time to do all this work u guys truly are amazing.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Kfryman, for the substrate thread, I thought it might be good for you to get together with Mo and just post one after the other in the same thread, might be easy? If OFL is doing the NPT bit (waiting to hear back from her) perhaps that ought to be a thread on its own, depending on how long it all ends up being.

I've done the Plants to Avoid as separate thread: 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=104969

Maybe do the same with lights? 

People can just post questions under those, maybe, opens it all up for discussion, other people's expertise.. 

Dazed Betta, it's fine to post here! Thank you so much, hope you like the threads. Maybe Mo and Kfryman can add their favourites to the substrate post?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

So we will have these in different threads, that's fine.

We can do favourite substrate and plants, lights maybe as well. 

Mo I am thinking that for tanks just do the a summary and the pros and cons, because with all the plants listed it will take up a lot of room.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Yup, except for the substrate one, since it's all one topic, I think the thread would get a bit long otherwise.. 

Looking forward to the lights article, need to look into some alternates for bigger tanks..


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Hey kfryman. Are. You done with your portion of the substrate guide?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Aus said:


> Looking forward to the lights article, need to look into some alternates for bigger tanks..


What I use to light my big tanks-(_55g and 75g_)....For 48 inch light bulbs...I bought a couple of the shop light strips that cost under $10.00-they hold 2 tubes and these "Daylight" 48in 40w 6500k bulbs only cost $8.00 for 2 bulbs in the lighting section at walmart...Total cost under $20.00.

I placed metal rods on the ceiling over the tanks to suspend the shop lights with chains so that I can move them up and down-
This way I can work on the tanks without them getting in the way but still provide the light so I can see.

I would like to make a canopy for the 55gal-right now I am using foil to keep the glare down and provide some reflector to aim the light into the tank.

Whats neat about the shop lights too....you can paint them to match your decor if you don't have a canopy....


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

OFL...glad to get someone else's opinions/expertise on shop lights! I have just decided that would be most economical way to get good lighting down to substrate in my 40g tank...it came w/ this weak 1bulb (fluorescent) light...with all my plants and IAL, most of the time it looks like an underwater image from the Louisiana bayou...very murky...definitely needs more light since I have some plants dying off *big sigh with growl at end* lol...

On another note, everyones section so far seems great. I am behind due to my grandfather's decline...family is getting together in California for one last goodbye...

If anyone wants to do my part, just let me know, otherwise it will be a couple of weeks before I get them up. We are all posting separate anyway, correct? If so, at least I am not holding everyone up...


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## marktrc (Jun 6, 2012)

What is used for covers or hoods? Fully covered so bettas don't jump out? Is there an advantage for plants or fish to having lowered water level and partial open? For a 55 gal or larger is better to get Two half cover/hoods if they are available.

Sorry if I'm not supposed to post here.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't have a problem with my Bettas jumping out of my open top tanks...I have to top them off weekly due to evaporation-but otherwise they are filled to the top. A few of the tanks have two light strips that cover most of the top, I also have several with just one. I use lots of floating plants and they seem to help prevent the Bettas from jumping out of the tanks too-provides top cover to help them feel secure....

I don't like to use hood with my planted tanks-mainly due to light penetration...open top has worked best for me. 
The one 10gal that I have to use the hood on-I removed the plastic partition and the door-its just the frame of the hood- so I could use two light strips.


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