# How do I improve the water conditions?



## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

I recently tested my water after having had my fish in the tank for about a week and the results were:
Nitrate- 0
Nitrite- 0-.5
Hardness-1000 (strange as we have a soft water system)
Alkalinity- 300
pH- 8.5
I never was good at chemistry though I do know that having a 0 on nitrate and nitrite is good. However, the last three remain a problem for me. A few hours ago, though, I did add some Epsom Salt- could that be affecting the results such as the water hardness?
Anyways, I've been trying to research information, but all of the solutions are expensive! Are there any brands or solutions that I can use to help make these water conditions better?
Thanks!


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

possible, idk for sure, but are you using water conditioner? How many water changes, and how much do you change? was your tank cycled first?

It's important to do some weekly water changes, even in a cycled tank.


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## RandiLynn (Dec 9, 2011)

Ph is a hard one to control. Some people will add a Ph Down product- but you have to be careful- it's acid. The acidity and alkalinity will likely fluctuate. There are also products to regulate and stabalize ph- sometimes it is just a matter of trial and error. Keep testing your water for a bit.

As was posted, regular water changes are a must, especially if the tank has no filter.

Are your bettas behaving oddly? They can be very individualistic as far as prefered water conditions go. Some like salt in their water- others won't tolerate it. Some like it cooler or warmer. Some need real pampering, and some would just as soon be left alone (in stable, safe conditions, of course.)

Just remember, conditions can fluctuate wildly. There is no additive that will be an absolute cure-all.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Although PH and water hardness are two different things, they work hand in hand.. you have a high pH, but you don't want to mess with it- the betta will adjust to it on it's own. Messing around with the chemicals can cause more problems for them then having hard water in itself. The hard water depends on where you live as well.. say if you live in Southern California, the pH may be very high (water is hard, full of minerals in suspension), etc.. some places it's not so hard.

There is no proof whether soft/hard water is dangerous for them.. some say very soft water is actually bad, which I can see that. 

If your fish is healthy and happy then I would say to not worry about it, messing around with it can be very detrimental to him and how he reacts to it. 

Why did you add in Epsom?

Also- the water softener, is it a large tank set up for the whole house, or do you have it on the faucet itself such as a filter? 

What size tank, is it filtered, and what is your changing schedule and the %?


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## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

I added some Epsom salt because he seemed to be struggling a lot (heard that would help). My betta is brand new and I don't ever recall having this much trouble  He just sits at the bottom of the tank or behind the filter, neither of which do I like... I've had him for two days and I feel like I'm doing everything wrong every time I try to help him. That's why I was looking to fix the water as I thought that was the problem. Now, I think he might be sick.
The water softener is for the whole house. The tank is filtered and I did a water change yesterday. It has been a week since I last changed it as I heard that if you change it too often, it will destroy the good bacteria.
Anyways, here's a picture of him (sorry the lighting isn't very good). I don't see anything abnormal about him besides the fact that he just sits at the bottom. I put him in a bowl because I was wondering if the fish were bothering him, causing him to stay at the bottom but that doesn't appear to be the case.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

We need some more information.....what kind of testing product are you using and the water softening unit on the house...anyway you can bypass this.....

What size is the tank, how much and how often are the water changes, water temp, type of filter, any live plants, additives used, appetite/type/amount of food, tank mates, how did you acclimate him when you first got him 2 days ago, how much epsom salt did you use and did you add that to the tank or did you QT him....

Lovely fella by the way...nice find....


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

as long as the filter doesn't dry out, the "good bacteria" will remain.

again, do you use a water conditioner (not softener)?
is his tank heated? what temp is it?

Do you have access to a specific gravity meter? I'm not 100% on the workings of water softeners but i do know they use salt. you could use the sg meter to check the water for salinity. While we do use aquarium salt for treating certain conditions, too much is hazards.

He could be sitting behind the filter because the current is too strong for him. Maybe baffle the filter discharge with a sponge or piece of water bottle (see sticky post in Habitat)


I do see a bulge on his side toward his tail, looks like the swim bladder. I copied this from another post with the same bulge: 


> This is what I would do as if treating for SBD:
> 1) one 1 tsp of Epsom salt per gallon of water
> 2) only add conditioner to the above
> 3) lower the water to make it easy for him to get air
> ...


Quoted from earthworm88

I'm not positive that's what the problem is, just passing info. Does anyone else see that bulge?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That bulge looks like a normal part of the anatomy....the caudal peduncle....


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## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

It's a ten gallon tank and yesterday, I did a 25-30% water change. It is not the first water change I've made, but its the first water change with the fish in that particular tank. The water temp is around 77 degrees Fahrenheit. There are no live plants, only silk/plastic. I added a conditioner to the tank water along with what is called "Easybalence" to balance out the pH. Yes, I did acclimate him to the water for a good half and hour to an hour before adding him. Adding Epsom Salt was probably a really bad idea but I had heard it helped. Anyways, I had only added about 5 teaspoons straight into the tank...was that okay to do? I've never added salt to a tank before so I didn't know if there was a certain way how to do it...
If you guys need more information to diagnose the problem, just let me know!
(p.s.- I was watching him for a good half an hour and saw that he can move quite fast if he wants to, especially when he goes up for air. I recall that one of my last betta fish to die had had trouble reaching the top. Considering how fast he goes to the top, that has me a little hopeful...)


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

it doesn't stick out like that on any of mine?


salt is usually 1 tsp per gallon, and sometimes increasing daily depending on what you're treating.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> That bulge looks like a normal part of the anatomy....the caudal peduncle....


Have to agree, every one has a bulge there, but since bettas are different sizes/weight, some are more noticeable then others. 



Enbarr said:


> It's a ten gallon tank and yesterday, I did a 25-30% water change. It is not the first water change I've made, but its the first water change with the fish in that particular tank. The water temp is around 77 degrees Fahrenheit. There are no live plants, only silk/plastic. I added a conditioner to the tank water along with what is called "Easybalence" to balance out the pH. Yes, I did acclimate him to the water for a good half and hour to an hour before adding him. Adding Epsom Salt was probably a really bad idea but I had heard it helped. Anyways, I had only added about 5 teaspoons straight into the tank...was that okay to do? I've never added salt to a tank before so I didn't know if there was a certain way how to do it...
> If you guys need more information to diagnose the problem, just let me know!
> (p.s.- I was watching him for a good half an hour and saw that he can move quite fast if he wants to, especially when he goes up for air. I recall that one of my last betta fish to die had had trouble reaching the top. Considering how fast he goes to the top, that has me a little hopeful...)


Epsom is good for SBD problems, but if he is able to swim normally, stay upright then there is no need for Epsom. SBD will have specific tell tale signs that goes along with it, and you have yet to list any of them. You can't tell by just looking at the fish's body, nor if the fish is just being lethargic that it has SB problems. Epsom is the most gentle of the salts for them, but would be best not to use it if not in treatment. 
For further reference; when using Epsom you would want to use 1-3 tsp per gallon, _pre-dissolved_(pure salt grains can burn them if come into contact with the fish), daily 100% water changes.

For a 10 gallon, filtered, no live plants weekly 30-50% water change with regular substrate siphoning is needed- you would want to test to see which works better, closer to the 30% or the 50% since he is a single fish in the tank. Just water conditioner needs to be added.. messing around with things such as Easy Balance will cause more harm and stress to the little guy then the pH itself, as he will adjust to whatever pH you have. You can always use tannins to lower the pH naturally if you feel it is needed.

Not only do you need to adjust to the temp, but to the chemistry as well. Especially when using products that have potential to harm them- every 5-10 mins during the 20-30 min time period you would remove some of the water from the holding cup, replacing it with water from the tank. That gives him the chance to acclimate to both the temp, and the chemistry of the water.
(Unsure if you did this process, since you just said acclimated him)

As others have said, I would strongly advise not to use pH balancers of any sorts with bettas- they aren't sensitive to the pH itself, but they are to the chemicals used to alter the pH as well as the fluctuating pH can be detrimental.

Since you have the Epsom and harsh chemicals in the tank- I would recommend removing him and placing him in a QT tank with nothing but warm water and water conditioner while over the next few days do large water changes (50%) daily to clear out his tank. Or as long as you save the media filter and keep that.. just do a 100% water change and add only water conditioner in the tank- acclimate him properly to the clean water prior to letting him out.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

EvilVOG said:


> it doesn't stick out like that on any of mine?
> 
> 
> salt is usually 1 tsp per gallon, and sometimes increasing daily depending on what you're treating.


You don't ever increase daily on any salt- you use one setting, and increase _if needed_ for a stronger dose- but not increase daily... so say 2 tsp per gallon, if after 5 days of no improvement, you could increase to 3 tsp per gallon.. but that would be it. Not a daily thing to increase medications/salt.


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## lovebug009 (Mar 24, 2011)

I did some research, and found that drift wood can help with PH regulation, so I put a piece in one of my tanks and it has stabilized the PH.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Yup! The tannin from the driftwood works great too! Just don't boil them multiple times, otherwise you will start losing it.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

just quoting the stickies again, perhaps you should have a chat with the admins since you know better.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

EvilVOG said:


> just quoting the stickies again, perhaps you should have a chat with the admins since you know better.


Please show me where it says it.. I could not find it in the Treatment Part 1 section that says to increase the salt daily. 

You can definitely use the stickies as a reference, and quote them, as I do at times as well. But you have to look at the whole picture of the situation. Each situation will not fall into a sticky category.. adding salt and doing daily water changes to a fish that is just overly stressed, will not help in that situation, as you will be creating excessive stress and having more health issues due to that.. then by just letting the fish calm on their own (this was just an example). It is a guideline to go by, and the general treatment for such ailments. 
Just remember, you first must look at the whole picture, the what and the why of what is going on- see if there is something happening that is causing it that will need to be changed. You also need to correctly diagnose the problem before you should give any treatment regimen. Telling someone they have this issue when there are no symptoms can be more detrimental then just letting the fish be in clean water. 

I am not trying to sound as if you know nothing, but when I come and correct you it is because I see you have thrown up a copy of a sticky and not actually tell them what is going on, how to do the treatment properly, nor any true diagnosis. Sometimes you have to talk to them, ask questions and see the whole picture before telling them to do half a treatment. 

I don't know everything- but roughly 90% of my posts are in the emergency section of the forums and have done a lot of research and reading.. and I have almost every disease a betta can get with every fact/picture possible on my pc for each one.. and roughly 16 years of experience in handling fish.. and I still by no means know everything. I know conservative treatments and natural treatments, I don't know a lot about medications. But I will not sit by while someone is given wrong info/treatment that could harm the animal, or add unnecessary stress. It's not just against you, I will do it on any topic. That's just me. Someone asks for help, if I feel they need additional help, or if something needs to be corrected, I will correct because I am there to help the person and their fish. 
So please don't take anything personally.. just know that sometimes, a sticky isn't going to be the answer to every situation.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Right i should have said hourly not daily.

But every time it's diagnosed as Fin rot, Columarias, or whatever else you disagree with the sticky post unless i have not yet quoted it. 

I always ask questions, because most of the time the underlying problem is usually water condition/ heating. And when i put the sticky up it's so they can see the symptoms for themselves, rather than guess at what they say is white patches as they may not mean exactly what i think they mean when they say white patches. They need to see the description for themselves.


Understand that by the time most people come here and ask the disease is at a critical point, and if you don't take immediate aggressive measures, the fish will die. It may die anyway, but if you don't do everything in your power to get in front of it, it will die for sure. I'm as much a fan of clean water as you are, but a fish with an advanced disease will still die in clean water if you don't stop the fungus/ bacteria/ disease/ parasite from killing it. And a 100% change to clean water or clean salt water is equally stressful. Especially since a lot of these people don't change their water as often as they should.

Check the track record too. of all these threads where you told people to ignore the advice of a sticky post i quoted, how many have survived?

by the way here's a link to a thread with the same bulge, and others referring to it as a swim bladder. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=87094

And now here calling it a tumor (same fish) it should look familiar: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=87684


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## acadialover (Nov 17, 2011)

I have found that often times their are some shy Betta's that just hang or don't move around much in the first week. As they acclimate to their new home and water they become more active. If yo uare used to a really active fish, this may be surprising at first. just let him relax and he will become more active .


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Actually, only hourly for a couple treatments and only for 3 hrs 
I have nothing against you posting a sticky- what they are here for. If you read, it's what is lacking that sometimes needs to be said and done. 
You said "usually 1 tsp of salt and sometimes increased daily"- all I am doing is giving the correct treatment and how to do it. As well as making sure it is known that the treatment is not needed as the diagnosis was not SBD.

I was not in the first thread you posted.. I did not take part in that conversation. My first look at the thread was yesterday and I posted what my observation was. All SBD treatments had not worked, it's been going on for over a month- the location of the bump was not in the SB location. There are reasons for my madness..
And if you must know.. I didn't stop her from doing the medication as it's hard for a lot of people to understand that sometimes, medicines just won't fix everything. BUT you have to allow the owner to feel as if they have done all they could for their little ones. What would of happened if I told her not to try it? This guy has been ill for 4-5 weeks and I know medication won't help him.. so I made a judgement call and didn't contradict her, instead gave her some advice to help. I told her my thoughts and what would be best, care-wise, for him.. but if someone is determined to try something, use something- you aren't going to be able to stop them. The least I can do is give proper advice on how to use it. As I mentioned before, each case you will handle it different from the last- they are all different and you will have to use proper judgement on each one.

I take immediate measures, but sometimes if you do such a thing, you will in fact kill the fish- why a full understanding of what is going on is needed before you jump in with treatments. 

I am sorry you feel as if I am picking on you, but I will always correct a wrong I see, regardless of who it is, when it comes to the health of one of these guys. If I don't know for sure, I will (and do) ask someone in PM to take a look at things. But I won't stop helping someone when they ask, and I will do it the correct way that will save a life. Any more issues you have, please PM me with them.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

that was not a suggested treatment. He asked how much salt and i replied with "salt is usually 1 tsp per gallon, and sometimes increasing daily depending on what you're treating." Yes i accidently said days where i meant to say hours. The important part of that that you omitted here was "*depending on what you're treating*. Clearly that was not an instruction.

The fact of the matter is that i was not necessarily wrong in any of these instances (other than the above miswording), and you jump in the thread, and tell people not to treat in the manner described in these stickies, for an illness you agreed it had. 



> This guy has been ill for 4-5 weeks and I know medication won't help him


Then say so. Outright. But not all of these have been sick for weeks, some of them only a day or two, and you tell them not to treat their fish other than a water change! If they are beyond help, say so, otherwise i'm going to do my best to tell them the proper treatment. And i would think most of them would still want to try everything in their power to save their fish. That's what i'm giving them.



> I take immediate measures, but sometimes if you do such a thing, you will in fact kill the fish


Most of these the fish are dying, so not taking any action will DEFINITELY kill the fish, not just maybe. The fact is, by the time we see there's something wrong with them, it's already too late. So if you care weather it lives or dies, you're going to have to act.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Le sigh...

He asked if adding 5 teaspoons directly into the tank was okay to do, you responded with "salt is usually 1 tsp per gallon, and sometimes increasing daily depending on what you're treating."

Which is partially right. Am I not allowed to correct something that was not correct?

I never once agreed this fish had SBD- I had agreed with OFL that the fish looked normal, and that there should not be treatment for this fish that included any medication or salt. I told the OP that firstly, then I corrected your mistake. And corrected it again on my previous post because you had still gotten it wrong. 
By answering a question that involves a specific treatment, people will assume you are giving them instructions/clarification/information. And again, I will correct any mis-information that is stated, by anyone. 
I jumped in because the correct advice was ignored and I "jumped in the thread" to tell them what they are doing is in fact harming the fish... and that the fish has no signs of SBD.

I WILL ALWAYS tell them the best treatment for the fish- not all medication will work, or can be given right away. You have NO right in saying that I do not give the correct treatment, nor the best for the situation. Period. I DO say when they are beyond help, but I am NOT going to go case by case and point out why I chose to say this or that to each person. You CANNOT just give them something that may not have any meaning to their illness and say you are treating them over someone who will look at all the evidence, read the facts, see everything going on and give an appropriate explaination and treatment for that particular problem.


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## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

EvilVOG said:


> by the way here's a link to a thread with the same bulge, and others referring to it as a swim bladder. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=87094
> 
> And now here calling it a tumor (same fish) it should look familiar: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=87684


Hmm...I checked him out and I think it may be his color that makes it look so noticeable. However, I will definitely keep an eye out on him, just to be sure.
Good news though! I did do a 40-50% water change yesterday and (hopefully it's not my imagination) he seems to be doing a bit better! He's swimming around the top more and even flared up a couple of times. I had bought another betta male (Dante) before I bought this guy and I had thought he was dying too, but after about a week, he's been great! I think it just may be the same case for this guy as well...I've heard that some fish have a little trouble adjusting from a cup to a 10 gallon tank. 
I'm still going to watch him and everything just to be sure. Still, right now, I'm feeling hopeful!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Good to hear he is doing better! If he still has anything in his tank- medication/salt wise, I would go ahead and do another 50% tomorrow, and one more the next day to make sure his tank is completely cleared out. 

All bettas have the bump there, some more noticeable then others- but by all means keep an eye on him, always good to be a vigilant owner 

You are correct- some bettas have a tougher time transitioning then others. I in fact have a boy that will become lethargic, not eat well, the whole 9 yards when he is placed in anything above a 1 gallon; and that includes a 2 gallon lol. 
It can take up to a week, or more for them to fully adjust. Sometimes having a lot of plants and hiding places will make it easier for them and not feel so exposed. 

Keep us updated on how he is doing, and keep sharing the pictures!

(excuse this pic- <3 ya F)


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

> I'm not positive that's what the problem is, just passing info.


i said that and i don't know why you think "depending on what you're treating" = do this now. 

Yes i misspoke and you caught it, but i never told him to do anything.

That's not what is bothering me. what's bothering me is that anything i post on and quote the stickies, you tell them it's wrong. When it is exactly the disease i quote the sticky about, you tell them the treatment described in the sticky is wrong. In situations like this one where i tell them i don't know for sure that it's what *they think* it is, I give them the info so the can see what this forum's description of that illness is along with it's proper treatment, you get all over my case and all but accuse me of trying to kill their fish. And when you're the first to get to one of these posts, you go ahead and quote the treatment as described in the sticky, for the same stuff that when i quoted the sticky, you told those people it was wrong.




Enbarr i'm glad your friend is doing better.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I apologize Enbar- this forum usually does not have these issues.. this is very rare and I apologize that this had been dragged out and placed in your thread as it has been. 

I corrected.. but you didn't have to get snippy with me in doing so- understand I was not rude when I corrected it, I was just advising. 
Once again, I will tell them what I believe it is, and what I believe is the best treatment- whether it coincides with a sticky or not. 
The only ones I differ from the stickies is that for a torn fin, AQ salt is not needed, and I will continue to stand by that fact- it's healthier and safer to use just clean water and high protein diet in healing a split fin over AQ salt any day. I'm sorry you are upset that I will not quote and tell them to use AQ salt as you had and that I had said just so in another thread you had gotten upset at me for doing just that. - wow, that even confuzzled me!

I may quote a sticky for general-straight forward treatments that don't need questions answered. Normally that happens when pictures are included- it's easier to diagnose and respond with the appropriate treatments. I never denied using a sticky. So please, I am asking this to stop.. I do not pick anyone out in particular, or go after a certain poster. I do correct improper or mistaken advice and there is nothing wrong with that. Lets please drop this, I'm a red headed woman who likes to have the last word and too defensive, as my boyfriend likes to tell me lol.. you do what you believe and what you wish, and I will continue what I do.

I'm going F! =P


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Allrighty then.....good to hear that your Betta has perked up....what kind of testing product are you using and what other fish are in the tank....also, can you bypass the water softening unit on the house to use water for the Betta (_like an outside faucet_)...its much better for their long term health...often the water softener are Ion exchangers and that can really be hard on tropical fish and this can also cause some skewed reading on the water prams....

As posted...its best to maintain a stable pH and hardness-generally the Betta will adjust just fine to your source water...its those swings that can really do a number on them and since the Bettas we keep are domesticated- the harder and higher pH water is tolerated and has even been found to be better.

Water prams you want to see to know your unplanted tank is cycled:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm
pH-varies-best to avoid extremes high or low and sudden changes

Lot of different ways to keep and treat Bettas......diagnosis and treatment recommendation on the internet are "Best guess" at best....its up to the OP to decide how and what to treat based on information given.......


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## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

Okay...I used a strip test (I believe it was 5 In 1 Aquarium test strips) as it was the only thing that I could afford. It didn't include an ammonia test but as for the nitrite and nitrate, both were around 0. I'll just leave the pH alone now since you guys suggest it. Besides, I've had bettas in the past before we got the water softener system and I never had a problem with them.
Thanks so much for all of the advice! I really appreciated all of the different advice.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Enbarr said:


> I recently tested my water after having had my fish in the tank for about a week and the results were:
> Nitrate- 0
> Nitrite- 0-.5
> Hardness-1000 (strange as we have a soft water system)
> ...


Okay first off to all the people who posted. Hardness (GH) has a negligible affect on pH. You are mistaking it for Alkalinity (KH)

Secondly, that whole discussion going on about quoting stickies and stuff, tl;dr...just stop, this isn't grade school.

OKAY, now, to OP:

It appears that you have a lot of "stuff" in your water, which as you said, is indeed strange as you have a water softener. I have heard of places in the US with readings of >1000 GH as well as high alkalinity. Your Alkalinity is also very high (300). Your water source is probably somewhere near an area with a high concentration of Calcium Carbonate. Anything you currently try to do to lower your pH will probably do absolutely nothing.

I recommend purchasing distilled or R/O water from somewhere to dilute your GH and KH. Measure it again, then mix 50/50 and re-measure. GH and KH WILL decrease over time as the ions are used up by your fish and/or the presence of plants, but it's not something that will happen overnight.

As for your fish's lethargy and bottom sitting. I cannot say. Generally I have never seen GH or KH to be a problem. Your 8.5 pH is a tad high, but there wouldn't be anything you can do until you lower that KH. Bettas tend to adjust anyway

Again make sure you measure before and after adding the distilled water.


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## adams87 (Dec 13, 2011)

Usually, Aquarist use AQUARIUM salt and not Epsom salt...that might be one of the problems.


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## acadialover (Nov 17, 2011)

adams87 said:


> Usually, Aquarist use AQUARIUM salt and not Epsom salt...that might be one of the problems.


Aren't Epsom salts used for other things in the Aquarium ?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

adams87 said:


> Usually, Aquarist use AQUARIUM salt and not Epsom salt...that might be one of the problems.


Both can be safely used depending on the Bettas issue......


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

adams87 said:


> Usually, Aquarist use AQUARIUM salt and not Epsom salt...that might be one of the problems.


Aquarium salt works for a range of external problems such as ich and fin rot, etc..
Epsom is more for internal- bloating, constipated, popeye, SBD etc..

Epsom is actually much more gentle and the fish can be in it indefinitely if needed, whereas AQ salt you tend to have a 10 day max of time they should be exposed as it can cause internal problems such as kidney/liver failure.

Both salts are used in treatments of different ailments.. and you never want to mix the salts in together, nor mix which salt to use for which treatment- AQ salts have a potential to make SBD worse, etc.




acadialover said:


> Aren't Epsom salts used for other things in the Aquarium ?


Yup! In the aquarium, and for us!

OFL you beat me to it


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## adams87 (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes, but I use aquarium salt because it is generally required in smaller amounts than epsom salt is


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Naturally lower PH and even hardness of water: driftwood. I swear, it works :lol: chemicals can seriously hurt the betta, so I won't recommend brands or anything. In a cycled tank you will need at least a 20% weekly water change with gravel siphoning. This is what I do for all my cycled tanks and have never had a problem. some live plants (floating, java fern, sword etc) also help with the water quality and condition.


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## Enbarr (Dec 7, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Naturally lower PH and even hardness of water: driftwood. I swear, it works :lol: chemicals can seriously hurt the betta, so I won't recommend brands or anything. some live plants (floating, java fern, sword etc) also help with the water quality and condition.


Yes, I've heard that driftwood can be good...unfortunately, I just don't know where I can get some. :-? Do you have to get it from a specific place? I know that I can get live plants from my pet stores, but right now, I don't think I have the time or experience to care for live plants. :shock:
As for the chemicals, I've stopped using them. I did a few water changes to get rid of the chemicals and now only use a water conditioner.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

depends. I found driftwood here, which came from fresh water lakes. HUGE pieces (I might snatch them from my parent's house before they toss them away), that I will need to slice up to be able to boil clean. Pet stores might have them, but they can get pricey (minimum 10.00 for a small piece, most I have seen is 40.00 for a medium!). if you have fresh water lakes or something, check around. even check with people. 

He also may be trying to adjust to the sudden water quality change... some bettas react very badly (one of mine resulted in death from a simple water change), while others don't even react.


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## goldentryst (Dec 13, 2011)

May I ask a few questions I've stumbled upon while reading through these posts? 

The driftwood you all are talking about... Does the driftwood from the ornamental section of the fish store count as the 'pH balancing' driftwood or is it just artificial ornamental driftwood with nothing of that feature?

Also I too have a pH of 8.4 in a 10gall I was trying to move my betta into. His 1.5gall is 6.8 pH.

When doing the acclimation... well, does anyone know the exact process of the acclimation?


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Wow, why do I even bother >.>


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Real driftwood o.o that's what I mean lol. Artificial is fake wood... Hence... Artificial. Some stores (pet stores) carry fake or live or both. This store here only carried live so I wouldnt know what "ornamental" is. 

And acclimating is the same as you should be doing. Depending on the betta (some take it well others don't) the time varies. Float him, 15 minutes or so. Slowly add some tank water to his water, which you can do every 10-20 minutes I'd say. This allows adjustment to PH.


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## goldentryst (Dec 13, 2011)

Yeah ik that artificial means fake I just wasn't sure if the driftwoods in the ornament section are always fake. Just trying to be sure. 

And ah okay that sounds normal. I had been confused because on some websites there is a recommendation of up to 24 hour acclimation  

Thanks!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Y'all driftwood is not going to drastically alter the water chemistry, that's just silly. The tannins released from new driftwood may temporarily soften the water but that's about it. If y"all had actually listened to bahamuts post you'd know that pH and hardness are not the same thing and adding driftwood is not going to change the pH much, if at all.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Anyways, there are some bettas who do need to have a longer time to adjust - I had one and it sucked for water changes, moving, etc. 

I use driftwood and it works fine. And no one said it would "drastically alter water chemistry". But okay whatever OP ignore my driftwood posts obviously it's not worth your time and effort, maybe someone can direct you to a not-as-dangerous-to-use chemicals. But I can't, sorry.

Best of luck.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

@Sena: Yes, driftwood would normally work to bring pH down because it releases tannic acids. However your KH is probably significantly lower than OP's. You don't have to take offense to 1f2f by posting a sarcastic message. It's not necessary.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Anyways, there are some bettas who do need to have a longer time to adjust - I had one and it sucked for water changes, moving, etc.
> 
> I use driftwood and it works fine. And no one said it would "drastically alter water chemistry". But okay whatever OP ignore my driftwood posts obviously it's not worth your time and effort, maybe someone can direct you to a not-as-dangerous-to-use chemicals. But I can't, sorry.
> 
> Best of luck.


Geez Sena quit being so snippy. No one insulted you. :U 
You guys obviously ignored Bahamut's posts, and you guys not paying any attention to them made this issue into a bigger deal than it needed to be. 
There's no need for sarcastic remarks to the people who actually know what they are talking about.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would trust Bahamut's advice on water chemistry since it's part of her studies in college.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I wasn't being snippy/ I was saying, then ignore my posts if it doesn't work. If it doesn't work apparently, do not do it. That's why I do not use certain brands over other ones... but ok I'm sorry.


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