# Betta Newbie



## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Hello all- 

As the thread title says, I am new to Bettas (well, fish period excepting the occasional and apparently indestructible garden variety goldfish) having accquired a male crowntail about three months ago. Except for the fact that he drove me bonkers for the first two weeks refusing to eat the freeze dried bloodworms and mini betta balls I bought him at time of purchase, freeze dried brine shrimp proving acceptable, I thought our relationship was going to be mutually contented- after being liberated from his Walmart cottage cheese sized container and sizing up his 1 1/2 gallon goblet with artificial foliage and a white gravel and green marbles bottom he seemed perfectly happy. The little booger would even depart his hiding spot in the foliage and dart to the surface to meet the inbound shrimp and didn't even seem to mind my presence. 

In any case, I became emboldened and decided if one was nice, a pair of contrasting colored ones would be just super, so bought another one ( metalic blue to offset with the originals blood red), set him up in his own matching habitat and was pretty smug for another week as both seemed alert but not agitated. Fast forward two weeks...

Both are now listless, mostly disinterested in eating or my presence and one is hiding at the bottom of the tank, only coming up for air while the other is resting at the top. As of a week ago, the new family member had silently expired during the night and old number one could barely be provoked into showing any sign of motion. This is very distressing to me as I take the care of any living thing in my charge as a personal responsibility to be upheld, not just to keep them alive, but to make their existance a happy one. 

Here I have obviously failed, and in just a few minutes perusing this forum I see that ther are several key points where I was was criminally ignorant and outright misinformed! As soon as this is posted, I will resume reading and looking for more answers, but in the meantime, I would appreciate anything you good folk can offer to help the survivor of my woeful attempts survive. Here are some hard facts regarding what I've done so far:

container: 1 1/2 gal clear glass goblets, open to the air.

water: 1 1/2 gal reverse osmosis city water, ala Culligan vending machine 
at local market, changed completely once a week with with fresh 
RO water at the same temp.

substrate: white aquarium gravel in one black in the other, both 
rinsed in tap water, well drained and air dried. 

environment: a west side room with afternoon filtered sun 
and an overhead fluorescent light with plant tubes as the 
room also contains several palms and cane plants.
Temperature is low eighties during the miday, mid 70s at 
night enforced by an electric room heater set to come on as 
the temp dips even slightly.

Foods: A) rejected outright: Tetra betta mini balls 
Tetra bloodworms
Tetra Bettamin flakes
Sallys frozen brine shrimp

B) Tentatively interested: Tetra baby shrimp
C) Accepted with relish until recently: Hikari freeze dried brine 
shrimp, cubed.

What I have NOT done: No outside chemicals of any sort, 
including water treatments. No in tank heater 
or filtration.

I hope this is enough information to give someone a clue as to where I should start. Obviously I have missed a LOT of essential points here and I want to do right by this guy. Living in the rural southwest, I am some 35 miles from the nearest (and only) pet supply place so would appreciate your help in compiling a shopping list for my next trip to the 'big city' (HAH!) :roll: I'd be broken hearted and very hesitant to try again let alone expand to two again if I lose this little guy.

Sorry for the wordiness and thanks so much for your help.

-F


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## Josiee (Jul 29, 2010)

Hi there 

The factor that sticks out to me most in this situation is the fact that you're using RO water. This may sound crazy, but it is far too pure for Betta fish! There are no minerals in it or anything. I think you can buy something called 'Replenish' (? - haven't used it myself as my water is fine) which will add the required minerals to your water.

Good luck


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Welcome to the wonderful world of Betta keeping and I hope you don't give up. Sadly this species is not a long lived fish in general with a few rare exceptions.

By the sounds of thing you did most everything correct, however, in less than 2g without filtration I would recommend an increase in water changes. One of the biggest killers or cause of death in most species is usually related to water quality.
Two problems-not enough water changes and R/O water without using additives to replace the needed mineral/electrolyte that the fish needs for good health...both easy to fix.....

I would start by making twice weekly 100% water changes and use a 50/50 mix of the R/O and tap water or 100% tap along with a good dechlorinator for chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals or if you want to keep using the R/O water get a product to replace what is removed- SeaChem has a good one called Equilibrium"

Also you want to remove any uneaten food after feeding


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

*thank you!*

Thank you very much for your specific and quick replies! Yes, in, reading the FAQs, this seems probable to me. The thing that puzzles me is that my original crowntail (Little Dude, he is a showoff  ) is still among the living while the late arrival expired in less that half the time. I have developed an enormous respect for LD's hardiness, one tough little guy...

Let me ask you this- my tap water is only lightly chlorinated and it will be at least three days before I can make the journey back to town from hicksville- do you think that I might be doing LD a favor by replacing his RO water with tap water that has been allowed to sit and air out? I realize this is still far from optimum and will correct ASAP, but I'm trying to buy time here.

One thing crosses my mind that might also be relevant- I had been using an oill warmer in that room to lend a jasmine fragrance to the air and it occurs to me that as the aroma spreads through the air, what it is actually doing is spreading OIL through the air- might I be creating a mini gulf oil disaster for my fish by putting a film of (perhaps toxic) oil on the surface here? I have stopped cold on this and will not resume, but might this be a primary cause? Anyone have experience with something similair in airborne traumas?

Thank you again Josiee and Oldfishlady! I do appreciate your help , will put them into play soonest and if he knew, I know LD would appreciate it too 

Addendum- 

Oh, and upon being horrified to read how many things I've been doing wrong, I promptly transfered LD to a five gallon bowl (he looks like an astronaut in outer space in that big thing, he is Sooooo small, even for a betta) and added a heater which is set for 78f- the 'on' light barely comes on and soon goes out, so I assume the temp is within acceptable parameters and yes, I have removed the excess food immediately upon the cessation of feeding- unsightly, and I did realize the problem of nitrates/ nitrites in the water from decomposing organics, but I certainly had no idea how rapid the effects could set in! I will follow your reccomendations scrupulously.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have read lots and lots on the hazards of smoke, oils and other pollution in the air, however, I burn lots of oils and insence in my house without any problems and my oil burners are pretty close to my tanks and I have yet to have any problems and my tanks are all open tops...so I can't say yes or no- if it is bad as I have never had any problems myself....... but I have read that others have...maybe I am just lucky......

If you live in the USA and use city water supply you also have chloramine in the water and this is a type of ammonia and deadly to fish and unlike chlorine it will not go away without an added binder...I would wait until I got the proper additives before I used tap water-if you are 100% sure you only have chlorine in the water then usually 24 h of sitting out and less with added aeration the water is usually safe for fish.......be careful........


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## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Many of the members here use a water conditioner called "Prime", and swear by it.. you could give that a shot, I'm sure it would be perfect for getting your tap water up to par.


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

*Again-*

My thanks to you 

No, I am not at all certain as to whether it is chlorine. cloramine (or who knows what else) in the water, only that it has that pungent odor I recall as being callled chlorine back in my city days... I will forbear changing his aqua yet again until I can be sure what he's getting is right- poor guy is traumatized and ill as things are. And here I thought I was being the good provider, spacious digs, 'good' water :roll: and all... 

I appreciate your insights on the aromatics Oldfishlady, at least it seems I haver not DOUBLEY toxified my fish in my blindness then. Nonetheless, I shall refrain in the future though the aroma of jasmine goes so nicely with the decor- LD must come first. I suppose it's possible that 'dry' aromatics such as incense might be fine whereas an oil warmer which actually disperses oil droplets in the air could be a hazard- the oil coating the labyrinth organs and preventing the absorption of oxygen? I know a fellow (climate scientist) in New Zealand who's convinced we're headed for a new Ice Age because of the microscopic film of oils on the seas from a century of motor traffic and human waste disposal practices- scarey stuff! _IF _he's right, then the oil warmer can't be helping my poor little guy.... 

Thank you again for your insights, you seem to be a sort of Betta 911 ;-) and that's just what I'd hoped for.

-F


Addendum#2 : Goodness, ANOTHER response while I was replying to the last! Thank YOU too Capricorn, I will put in my possibles list, I may not have choices, but a recommendation is useful and long term, there is always my good friend, online shopping. 

*A GREAT FORUM you have here! *I look forward to a day when I might have something useful to contribute instead of being a bundle of 'he should have learned this stuff BEFORE he bought the fish' questions. 

Thank you all so much


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I use the oil burners too, I make my own oils from patcholi, lavender and sage I grow, however it is mixed with either olive oil or mineral oil and maybe less toxic being homemade.....lol......but I do understand........


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> I use the oil burners too, I make my own oils from patcholi, lavender and sage I grow, however it is mixed with either olive oil or mineral oil and maybe less toxic being homemade.....lol......but I do understand........


Great, you make your own! I _am _impressed. would that I were so talented.

Theory (and the advertising claim from their Egyptian maker) is that the oils I have are pure distillates, that is, nothing added at all... and I do love them so  The scent of jasmine or sandalwood, sometimes Egyptian musk wafting in the air on a summers evening accompanied by the chirping of a cricket chorus, well... it's what summers are for to me. I will carry on, but somewhere the fish won't have to experience it with me. But this is about Bettas isn't it, and here I am hijacking my own thread into forbidden waters. Doggone newbs anyway....


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

Ha ha. Your tone of words makes me giggle and impresses me. Welcome to the forums.  You are in good hands with Oldfishlady, she's one of the best here who help us in our everyday errors and mishaps. At one point we all came here to the forums and were educated in betta keeping, and now after two months here myself, I too offer advice to the newlings who come about.

If you are far from the city, and of-age/able to pay for things online, I highly recommend the website www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com. This is where I bought my heater, my water conditioner, my two medications, my water testing kit, any other impulse buy I wanted, etc... It's $8.99 for flat-rate shipping but everything is so marked down from store prices so the more you buy, really the cheaper it is. They have all sorts of heaters at affordable prices, Prime water conditioner, and anything else you might need for your little friends.

Keep an eye on the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in that 5 gallon tank of yours. Before the tank fully establishes its bacterial/nitrogen cycle the increase of nitrites could kill your poor betta before you even know what's going on.

What I can think of being the cause of your problems would be:

1. Lack of nutrients in your RO water, and lack of a good water conditioner. Prime and Equilibrium can fix both of these. 
2. Lack of water changes. OFL touched on this.
3. Unheated tank. This could make the fish lethargic.
4. Fish diet. What I see is that you started your friend on freeze-dried bloodworms. While these have some nutrients, they're considered "snack" food for bettas and should only be used in moderation, not as a staple diet.  What I use is Atison's Betta Food and my boys LOVE it, even my Wal-Mart rescue. Other foods that people recommend are New Life Spectrum, Ken's Betta Crumbles, and OmegaOne Betta Buffet Flakes/Pellets. Some people also recommend Hikari Betta Bio-Gold but they changed their formula to be a filler ingredient, which is bad.  You can get Hikari off of Foster and Smith, but I just went to www.lnt.com and ordered my Atison's pellets from there. 

For pellets it's good to soak them in tank water for a couple minutes to release the air that could bloat them. I've never had bloating with Atison's however. As for your freeze-dried blood worms, best to soak those a few minutes too, or just switch to frozen ones. 

Sorry for the long post! But there's my two cents.  Let us know if you need anything else.


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Grazie mille Ajones, and thank you for the welcome, though because of the kind responses of your members, I _do already _feel welcome here- the response to my questions has been more than pleasant. Such is not always the case, I can attest.

I will take your recommendation and run with it- I, as I gather you do, tend to take something that starts as a dabble and turn it into an avocation if I'm reasonably successful at it, so it may well turn out that what is a minor saving to start out becomes a _real_ break over the long haul. Yes, I am of age to shop online (several times over actually) though not neccesarily commensurately wise  Now days I'm happy to putter around the house after work, enjoying my plants and most recently, Bettas. I can see where they'd be easy to become addicted to! Lil' is quite the handsome boy and full of fearless personality, when he's well. I feel like I've let down a human friend...

Bloodworms- Little Dude took one look at them and I swear, if such a thing is possible, he looked at me and sneered. Likewise the pellets. He seems not to recognize anything that doesn't float as food, and that shot down the frozen brine shrimp too, aarrrrrghh... He's quit doing anything more than perfunctorily mouthing the freeze_dried _brine shrimp and that may be normal considering he's feeling poorly, but it makes me wonder if perhaps they have gone bad and maybe _that's _the source of his illness. I'd intended to buy more of them today and see if that might be the case, but they were sold out. So many variables and I have so little experience to draw from.

On a seperate matter, I see your response on the heater size thread, and take your point- surely a 100 watt heater is overkill bulkwise as well as in capability, and I can see the potential for a fish fry (what a scene to come to, eh?) which is why I included the caveat as to the thermostat. It would be interesting to me to know what the relative numbers are for overheating incidents versus failure to heat. 

I'm sure there are good logistics behind the availability of various sizes, so of course you are right there. I'd think it would be simple enough to incorporate a fail safe thermoswitch in such devices, and maybe a good idea on the manufacturers part considering how much money some people have in their finned pals. Hmm, do I smell a market niche here? But I'm getting overly wordy again (you got nothin' on me there pal ;-) )

Thank you for your help!

-F


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Happy to know theres another person interested in the betta keeping hobby!


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Yeaaaaa!!! Litttle Dude is up and prowling his new environs this morning! I peeked in on him a few times and he was investigating the entire place- 'OOOH, what's this? OOOH what's this?' I'm so happy to see this, at least he's not at deaths door and I have a chance to do right by him. Still just fiddling with his brine shrimp (and could give a fig less about the pellets) but at least he's interested and that can't be a bad sign  

Not sure what the difference is- it's still RO water, but bowl is triple+ volume and he now has the 78f heater. At least he's looking happier and if this helped out, that's a good enough start for me! So it's onward to the conditioners and tretments suggested by you kind people.

Have a GREAT one all, and thank you again for sharing your experience 

-Feral


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

Stick around, you'll learn more and more.


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## KukaaKatchou (Sep 19, 2010)

so Hikari Betta Gold isn't a complete balanced food for my betta?


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

KukaaKatchou said:


> so Hikari Betta Gold isn't a complete balanced food for my betta?


It's first ingredient is wheat based which bettas aren't made to digest. Hikari has some nutrients, but once it was replaced with fillers a lot of people stopped recommending it. However, no food has the complete balanced diet for a betta, which is why it's good to have a high protein, meat based staple food like a good pellet and frozed bloodworms or brine shrimp as a treat occasionally to fill in the missing links.


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## KukaaKatchou (Sep 19, 2010)

ok I have some bloodworms and I can get some frozen brine shrimp. Do they need to thaw first? Do I need to kept the pellets somewhere to keep them fresh? Not that Sam is eating the pellets yet.


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## luv2run21 (Aug 17, 2010)

keep trying! He is probably too cold so get a heater and set it up to about 76 to 80


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## KukaaKatchou (Sep 19, 2010)

We are at 80, he ate 2 pellets once I made them move around in the water like they were alive  Picked up some frozen brine shrimp while I was out buying another thermometer. He had a rehydrated bloodworm as a snack as well. Now he's in his home with no light b/c he had 2 water changes today and I want to minimize the stress on him


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

Don't throw in a whole cube of the frozen stuff or he'll get bloated. I think most people get a small bowl with some water and break up the cubes, give him a couple worms and refridgerare/refreeze the rest until another feeding time.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes, they have to be defrosted in tank water. Just a few, though!


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

luv2run21 said:


> keep trying! He is probably too cold so get a heater and set it up to about 76 to 80


I think you hit the major malfunction on the head- I came home this afternoon and now he is cruising the new bowl (WITH heater) as though nothing had ever been wrong. Remarkable... played 'ring and run' on deaths door and lives to tell about it. Even his color is substantially more vibrant.

Mind you, I am *NOT,NOT, NOT *going to call it good at this point, water treatments and conditioners are on this weekends schedule and will be scrupulously ministered as per directions from here out, as will more frequent water changes.

Thank you all for your recommendations and concern, with your help Little Dude will live a full and happy life now :-> and....

I will not forget that you were here for us in the hour of need. Many, MANY thanks!

-Feral


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

We're all nervous in the beginning.


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

*Waaa- hooooo!*

What have you people done? I followed your suggestions faithfully, treated tap water, heater, bigger tank, etc and all and *now I have a MONSTER *on my hands! ;-)


Seriously though, the difference is nothing short of remarkable- he's _faaaar _perkier than at any point since I've had him. Attitude? Whoaaaa...

Except when he's just relaxing, he *bolts *everywhere he goes, and this critter is *fast *too! Attitude? Something like a hybridized piranha/great white, I mean he comes almost halfway out of the water when he hits his food, and he'll run at it from all the way across his 6 gallon bowl. Just amazing.... Displays more, better color too, you name it.

Thank you folks, it's an amazing turnaround. Just wish I'd come to this forum *before *I got him and his now expired cross town companion. 

Now a question- I've been feeding him live tiny insects and he just loves 'em, but I also got him some frozen brine shrimp (since he has a taste for the freeze dried stuff) but as I mentioned before, he doesn't seem to recognize anything that doesn't float as food. Anyone have any thoughts as to how to retrain him or make the frozen stuff float?

Just for giggles, here's a pic of Little Dude in his new environs- will post a better pic of his bowl on the Betta housing thread in a bit. 

Thanks again folks, you're the best!

-F


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## KukaaKatchou (Sep 19, 2010)

hmmm when I defrosted my brine shrimps they sank like stones but Sam knew right away that was GOOD FOOD. He was like a mini hoover vac on speed trying to snap them all up. Maybe wet a thread, stick some shrimps on it and dangle it near him??

Oh and Little Dude looks a lot like Sam except Sam has iridescent blue not green.


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

KukaaKatchou said:


> hmmm when I defrosted my brine shrimps they sank like stones but Sam knew right away that was GOOD FOOD. He was like a mini hoover vac on speed trying to snap them all up. Maybe wet a thread, stick some shrimps on it and dangle it near him??
> 
> Oh and Little Dude looks a lot like Sam except Sam has iridescent blue not green.


I don't know what the deal is, but LD treats everything that doesn't float like part of the scenery, no interest in eating it at all... the only thing I can figure is that he's totally conditioned to eating from the top.

Believe it or not, when I got LD, his body appeared to me almost a black/red! It was only after he settled in (and before he got sick) that he got that metalic green swath- strange fish, these Bettas, but _LOADS _of personality, LOL.

Hmm, the thread thing sounds like an idea, but how to get the brine shrimp to stick to it I wonder? Might be fun to see if he'll actually come out of the water to get food - maybe after he gets a taste, huh? :lol: Like feeding Shamu at Marineland! Haa!

Thanks for the idea!

-Feral


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

You can use tweezers to hold them out to him, just make sure you're not using sharp tweezers. My husband had a pair that I stole out of his 'man-case' (don't tell!). 

I usually melt the cube in a little tupperware bowl of tank water and then pick up individual shrimp and wiggle it around in the water in front of the fishy. They get really good at associating your hand with food so it helps if he's zero-ing in on the motion. If he's not into frozen brine shrimp, you can try frozen bloodworms. They usually LOVE these with an unholy passion. Just to give you an idea of how unholy; Kilo once knocked the tweezers right out of my hand coming out of the water after a bloodworm. This is the reason for very dull tweezers. 

Your posts made me smile. It's really nice to see someone so passionate about learning to care for these little guys. They're very worth the effort. And they'll wrap you around their little 'finger' if you let them.

Edit: He's beautiful, by the way.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

I loved this entire thread! I agree with VG, it's great to see someone with as much passion for these little guys. They definitely need more people like you! And they will be spoiled before it's over. They're little packages of dynamite, bubbling with personality and charm. I love bettas. 
Welcome to the forum!


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

You and your fish are both adorable! I wish you were my uncle or something!! 

I hope you stick around. Reading your posts is like perusing a good newspaper satire article. I keep giggling because you just seem like such a cool person.

It's great to see that you care about your fish so much. I hope he sticks around with you for a long time yet.  When you get a betta in a good environment, they sure do explode, don't they? After I moved my previously shy, people-hating betta into a five gallon, suddenly he wants to eat out of my hand!


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Thank you all for the warm welcome, and for sharing your wealth of experience too! I'm glad you find the thread entertaining- I try to leave a smile on the readers faces because after all, at this point it's really about all I can do for you... SOOOO much to learn. Poor LD is the unwitting Guinea Pig for my bumbling, but your advice has already improved his lot in life and will continue to do so I know. Why have a pet at all unless you're going to spoil them rotten? So yes, you can bet I'll be sticking around (and pssst, don't tell anyone but I've been enjoying the various personalities around here too ;-) )

Yes, I find that I become passionate about the things I do or I just quit doing them! Anything worth doing is worth _over_doing I think. You should have seen me when I was raising Rhodesian Ridgebacks! I ended up keeping 14 of the rascals, but it was well worth it and then some. I bought LD because I have a plant room that I use as my 'unwind place' and it needed a splash of color and motion but little did I know that this tiny guy was going to be such a dynamic personality! I'd never have guessed that so much character could come in such a tiny package and now it's too late to turn around, I'm hooked and there's no turning back :lol:. 

Thank you yet again for your suggestions, 
I'll try 'em all until I find one that works. Right now though. it's (_UGGHH!) _off to work. 

Have a _great _day everyone!

-F


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

*NOT a 'morning person'*

Haw! I've noticed that for about the first hour or so after I turn the lights on in the AM Little Dude seems to be kinda slow on the switch- if 
I put food in his bowl, he seems unable to locate it, even when I tap my fingertip on the waters surface. When he's awake and alert, this brings him to the vicinity then he quickly spots the chow and attacks it, not so at wake up. Anyone else notice this in their little pals?

It strikes me funny as I have the same problem with being marginally functional in the predawn hours


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

Sometimes they just don't want to wake up to eat. >_> Shif does that to me all the time. And if I feed him too early in the morning he just sniffs the pellets then swims away, so I've just started feeding him later. lol


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

Ajones108 said:


> Sometimes they just don't want to wake up to eat. >_> Shif does that to me all the time. And if I feed him too early in the morning he just sniffs the pellets then swims away, so I've just started feeding him later. lol


Thanks for the input Aj... the thing is, he _acts _interested but as though he literally can't _see _it- he's got me stumped :-?. Maybe just a matter of mind/body disconnect? All good with me as long as he eats enough later (and that he does) but I feel guilty leaving him unfed until I get home about 4 PM

Maybe I ought to try giving him some coffee and a cigarette first, huh? ;-)
Works for me.....


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

"Maybe I ought to try giving him some coffee and a cigarette first, huh? 
Works for me....."

LOL - that works for me too!!!! 

I don't think it's real important what time you feed them daily as long as you feed them!!! If 4:00 pm works best for you and him, I would say it's all good.


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## KukaaKatchou (Sep 19, 2010)

I noticed that with Sam too. But if I put my finger on the surface of the water it seems to wake him up, then I put the pellets in. Sometimes I tap the water near his pellets and he wakes up enough to eat them


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## Feral (Sep 19, 2010)

This guy's no dummy- he's figured out that if he builds his nest directly over the tank heater, he has a nice toasty place to sleep :lol: Built his own blanket, LOL....

Just amazing how much they can do with so little 'grey matter' isn't it?


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