# Multiple questions ( bc ive been told/read contradicting answers)



## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

First one: is the 1gal for every 1inch true or false? It can't be both.
Second: what is the ideal water temp?
Third: what is the smallest tank that you can house 3-4 females in?
Fourth: 1gal habit is plenty of room for ONE betta. True or false? Again, can't be both

Fifth: air filtration bad for bettas? True or false?
Sixth: what is actually the correct amount of food to feed a betta how many times aday? Bottle says one thing and ppl say different
Last: how many times a week does a 1gal habitat need water changed with a filtration system? This one i have heard/read sooooo many things I don't know what's true or false anymore as with all the questions 
Thank you for the help.


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

1.) that is an approximate universal rule, except, if you think about it a lot of schooling fishes that need to be with others, need a bit more space, but you may get a more accurate answer from others 

2.) ideal water temp: About 76- 82 degrees.

3.) 10 gallons for 3-4 females is the smallest reccomended.

4.) Not sure bout this one.

5.) I don't feed pellets so someone else should answer.

6.) someone else should answer since I have a big tank and not a 1g.

~TPF


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

1. Its partially true.. its a guideline to help new fish keepers.. there is actually a LOT more that goes into stocking.

2. Ideal for bettas is 76-82* with 80* being perfect IMO. Other fish have other needs.

3. Female bettas should only be kept in groups of 4 or more and you will need at least a 10 gallon tank with lots of plants and hiding spots.

4. 1 gallon is not enough room for a betta. The minimum should be 2-2.5 with 3 being ideal IMO. Bigger is better though. 

5. There is nothing wrong with air filters. Some make bubbles which some bettas don't like but besides that they're fine.

6. That really depends on the size and age of your betta. In general 2 pellets twice a day is a good feeding schedule. Some people fast their fish but I don't. You also want to have a diet with several different foods.

7. Like I said.. a 1 gallon is not appropriate permanent housing for a betta. Its fine for short term though. A 1 gallon will need a water change every other day. If you have a small filter you MIGHT be able to do every three days but IMO there is no point in filtering a 1 gallon.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Thankyou for all that info. However I have discovered another contradiction. If 1inch 1gal is true, than why is 1gal not big enough for 1 betta? Why even make 1gals. This really makes no sense. Before I upgraded to 1gal. My bettas that I had for over a yr lived in habitats smaller than that where healthy an happy as can be. The frequent water change makes no sense. Eveything other website says half not full. That's what I did for a long time and those bettas where fine. What was the point of getting a filtration system if I still am told to change the water every other day. This makes no sense and all those water changes really stresses the bettas. Someone please clarify all this for me. Thank you





1fish2fish said:


> 1. Its partially true.. its a guideline to help new fish keepers.. there is actually a LOT more that goes into stocking.
> 
> 2. Ideal for bettas is 76-82* with 80* being perfect IMO. Other fish have other needs.
> 
> ...


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

What is IMO?


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

> If 1inch 1gal is true, than why is 1gal not big enough for 1 betta?


Because with all the flowing finnage and whatnot, bettas (at least the males with the fancy fins) are not one inch long, they are longer than that 



> What is IMO?


IMO means In my opinion.



> My bettas that I had for over a yr lived in habitats smaller than that where healthy an happy as can be. The frequent water change makes no sense. Eveything other website says half not full. That's what I did for a long time and those bettas where fine. What was the point of getting a filtration system if I still am told to change the water every other day. This makes no sense and all those water changes really stresses the bettas. Someone please clarify all this for me. Thank you


In a tank THAT small especially, waste accumulate very fast. The water becomes noxious fast. Filters don't replace water changes. they just help introuduce healthy bacteria into the tank and help reduce the water changes by making the water clearer. Its been done, to keep a betta for a long lifespan in a tank that small, but it is the betta keeper's responsibilty to create a healthy clean environment for the betta to live in, that means keeping on top of cleanings.

~TPF


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## reaperss06 (Jan 31, 2010)

ThePearlFish said:


> Because with all the flowing finnage and whatnot, bettas (at least the males with the fancy fins) are not one inch long, they are longer than that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This actually clarified a lot for me as well, lol. The one I had for about a year and a half lived in a .5 gallon tank and did fine. The thing that bothered me was he started having problems once I put him in the bigger tank.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

reaperss06 said:


> This actually clarified a lot for me as well, lol. The one I had for about a year and a half lived in a .5 gallon tank and did fine. The thing that bothered me was he started having problems once I put him in the bigger tank.


So true! When I upgraded my habitats. 2 of the bettas stopped eating and one of em died


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

well I had habitats smaller than that with no filter an only chnaged the water once a week and both lived a long and happy life. Also something STILL has not been answered. We can all agree water changes stress fish. Soooo wouldn't changing the water multiple times a week be really bad or my bettas? True or false? Btw, all info is much appreciated! 



ThePearlFish said:


> Because with all the flowing finnage and
> 
> whatnot, bettas (at least the males with the fancy fins) are not one inch long, they are longer than that
> 
> ...


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

> Soooo wouldn't changing the water multiple times a week be really bad or my bettas?


False, bettas (and other fish) prefer really clean water. Its when they live in water that is not changed often enough they get infections, diseases or etc. Most of the time, you can do partial water changes if you have a big enough tank so you don't need to remove them, but 100% changes are necessary in most cases. wouldn't you want to live in a very clean environment as opposed to one not cleaned as often? 

if betta fishes are kept well, they can live a good 3-5 or even 6 years in some cases.

~TPF


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

ThePearlFish said:


> False, bettas (and other fish) prefer really clean water. Its when they live in water that is not changed often enough they get infections, diseases or etc. Most of the time, you can do partial water changes if you have a big enough tank so you don't need to remove them, but 100% changes are necessary in most cases. wouldn't you want to live in a very clean environment as opposed to one not cleaned as often?
> 
> if betta fishes are kept well, they can live a good 3-5 or even 6 years in some cases.
> 
> ~TPF


Obviously I would prefer clean hahaBut I 100% disagree that multiple water changes in a week don't stress fish, bc it does. I'll just have to upgrade my habitats AGAIN. hopefully I won't have to continue upgrading haha it's getting expensive hah


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

I never said it didn't stress them out at all. but overall that it is healthier for the fish to get frequent water changes based on how big their tank is.

~TPF


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I agree with about everything that's said here. And if water changes stresses your fish, you as the owner work out so the betta doesn't get stressed. What's so stressed about it? You could find out, since "changing water" has lots of little aspects. Is it taking out water? Is it pouring in water? Is it the gravel vac? Or is it the new water? Etc. But still, IMO, dirty water is even more stressful anyway. (Diseases). But sometimes people have to deal with bettas that are stressul about anything, and those are the tough kids ~


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I can only go by experience. My betta who lives in a 16 gallon is the healthiest most well adjusted fish I have. His fins are longer then his body and his color is spectacular (see my avatar). The fish I have in a 5 gallon and 6 gallon have had ich and some non-specific bacteria problem. They 'pace' a lot more then my Tango.

Living in their own waste every day all day will stress their systems way more then the every other day stay in a cup for water changing and if you're smart about it, you can train them to go into the cup. Mine will go into any container willingly if led by food. Nothing I do in their tank stresses them. They're used to my hands all up in there and they associate it with food so they're actually happy to see my hand. If they're used to you and you interact with them enough they're more then willing to do what you want. They're very smart fish.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Seeee this is where I am getting lost. Being told that a 10gal is good for 4 females, while you basically tell me I need a 16gal for ONE betta. Isn't that a little extreme for one betta lol see I can flip the coin and say that I had a betta in a .5 gal for nearly 2 yrs and he was one happy dude  but thank you for the help





vaygirl said:


> I can only go by experience. My betta who lives in a 16 gallon is the healthiest most well adjusted fish I have. His fins are longer then his body and his color is spectacular (see my avatar). The fish I have in a 5 gallon and 6 gallon have had ich and some non-specific bacteria problem. They 'pace' a lot more then my Tango.
> 
> Living in their own waste every day all day will stress their systems way more then the every other day stay in a cup for water changing and if you're smart about it, you can train them to go into the cup. Mine will go into any container willingly if led by food. Nothing I do in their tank stresses them. They're used to my hands all up in there and they associate it with food so they're actually happy to see my hand. If they're used to you and you interact with them enough they're more then willing to do what you want. They're very smart fish.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Doesn't stress multi ones in a week stresses fish, that's not my opinion, that's FACT. just saying 




xxabc said:


> I agree with about everything that's said here. And if water changes stresses your fish, you as the owner work out so the betta doesn't get stressed. What's so stressed about it? You could find out, since "changing water" has lots of little aspects. Is it taking out water? Is it pouring in water? Is it the gravel vac? Or is it the new water? Etc. But still, IMO, dirty water is even more stressful anyway. (Diseases). But sometimes people have to deal with bettas that are stressul about anything, and those are the tough kids ~


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Ah, I don't think she's saying 16 gallons = 1 betta. I think she's showing, through her experience (and in this case data) the bigger, the better. 16 gallons IS quite big for a betta, but as you see, Tango has grown (REALLY) beautiful long tails and great color. And I'm assuming he hasn't gotten sick too much, and her 5 gal/6gal has faced ick before. 

I think you're facing sizing too literally. There is not a law that says 10 = 4 female bettas. 5 = 1 male betta. Honestly, you could (and should) fit more than 4 female bettas in a 10. It may be cramped, but there's another side: *possible less fighting*. The more females you have, the less fighting there should be (or something like that). So size does not rule all over anything. While a 1 gallon could house a betta, there's hardly any *niiiiiiiice* swimming space, ammonia can get out of wack, the temperature is harder to control... etc. 

Hopefully this is helping you and not confusing you? ?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Uhhh, I'm sorry that was confusing... are you saying the MULTI water changes a week will stress out bettas? I'm sorry, but I _haaaaaaaave_ to completely disagree, and I'll tell you why  

I have two bettas, and I do two water changes a week. Sometimes three. They're in my 5 gallon (I get so bored, I'll do more than one a week hahaha). I can just dump the gravel vac in there and stir it around, and they don't get stressed. At all. Not the littlest bit! How do I know? Their colors haven't been lost, they swim around, they follow the gravel vac with no flaring, they're so interested. They'r enot stressed at all. Plus I give them their treats, so they're like "Once it's over, treat time!" 
However, there ARE bettas who wouldn't be able to stand multi water changes a week. But this being said, "multiple water changes a week stresses a fish" would not be fact, it would be opinion, or a situation.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Thankyou everyone! Much appreciated


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

not going to debate. Water changes stress fish, it's a written FACT and not an opinion mine. But thank you for all your help 


xxabc said:


> Uhhh, I'm sorry that was confusing... are you saying the MULTI water changes a week will stress out bettas? I'm sorry, but I _haaaaaaaave_ to completely disagree, and I'll tell you why
> 
> I have two bettas, and I do two water changes a week. Sometimes three. They're in my 5 gallon (I get so bored, I'll do more than one a week hahaha). I can just dump the gravel vac in there and stir it around, and they don't get stressed. At all. Not the littlest bit! How do I know? Their colors haven't been lost, they swim around, they follow the gravel vac with no flaring, they're so interested. They'r enot stressed at all. Plus I give them their treats, so they're like "Once it's over, treat time!"
> However, there ARE bettas who wouldn't be able to stand multi water changes a week. But this being said, "multiple water changes a week stresses a fish" would not be fact, it would be opinion, or a situation.


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't want to debate either, but how is it a fact? Please enlighten me


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I would like to know how long your fish lived "happily and healthy". Bettas live an average of 5 years and are heard of to live longer than 7 if properly taken care of. A betta dieing after two years was obviously not healthy. Not to mention fish need room to swim. Just like any other animal fish need exercise to be healthy and they can NOT get that exercise in a .5 gallon tank.

Water changes stress fish is NOT a fact. Yes some fish are stressed by water changes but others don't mind them at all. I work with my fish so that they are not stressed when I cup them. A fish living for a week in its own excrement will be much less "happy" and healthy than a fish who gets water changes. Please show me the links where you have read that and I'll be glad to show you why it is wrong.

No you don't need a 16 gallon for one fish.. VG was merely pointing out her experiences with having a really healthy happy fish in a large tank to show that big tanks are good for any fish regardless of size.

As for the 1 inch per gallon rule.. only the smallest of females stay at an inch.. bettas should be 2-3 inches in length at full grown. Like I said.. that rule is merely a guideline.. MUCH more goes into stocking.

1 gallon tanks are made to be sold. The same reason those little "betta" tanks are sold. Its not healthy for the fish but the people selling them don't give a sh** what happens to the fish as long as they sell their "tanks". 1 gallons are great for hospital tanks and are essential for breeders to separate fry before selling them off.


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## hoolagal (Mar 22, 2010)

question about water ... i have been using the water from my big tank to fill and change water in the betta tank ... my big tank is well established and the water has no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates ... is this an okay thing to do ???


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Your using old tank water to do water changes? I wouldn't do that.. one of the reasons for doing water changes is to put fresh water with lots of oxygen in the tank so putting old water in would be counter productive IMO


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

just living is a stress on any animal, breathing is a stress, being _happy_ is even a stress on the body! So if you mean in general stuff like that, yes water changes are a stress. but water changes are not *ALWAYS* a NEGATIVE stress that AFFECTS the fish so much they go wacko every time a tank is cleaned. 

~TPF


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep, xxabc is right. I wasn't saying that you NEED a 16 gallon but in my experience it's been the tank that has the healthiest betta. I've actually had no illness at all in that tank. Tango actually started out in a 1.5 gallon Tetra cube. I didn't realize the difference until I saw a couple of pictures back to back so I'll show you:

Tango just out of his 1.5 gallon and in his new 16 gallon on the first day:









Tango now after a year in the 16 gallon: 









He isn't the only fish in there, btw. He shares the tank with 4 corydoras catfish.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

ALL i am saying is EVERY pet store, website, forum (except this one), databases, and books that i have read/talked to have ALL said/showed that water changes DO indeed stress a fish to some degree ESPECIALLY multiple ones in a weeks time. So again, NOT my opinion or an opinion. I went out and got a bigger tanks, because i do not have time to do a 100% water change in my habitats every couple days. That's ridiculous haha. Also in my defense. how does a fish slowly DIE over 2 yrs? Sorry, but that does not make much sense to me. They were colorful, clear eyes, ate all the time, and where very very active. They where older when i bought them from a pet store, so yes, i had them nearly 2 yrs, but who knows how old they actually where when i got em. =] I am done with this thread haha, all that has happened is i got ganged up on haha


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Well we're not ganging up on you, we're saying that "water changes stress fish" is not fact. But I'd also like to know where you got that, like as in links, or references. I'll be sure to look at the books at my pet store to see what it says. 

And it slowly dies because of the ammonia build up, if there is any (which is why we have cycling). Those are physical things, ammonia is more internal instead. Not exactly something you can see.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

"And it slowly dies because of the ammonia build up"

well that actually kills them over days/maybe a couple weeks, not 2 yrs. You cant say a betta dying after 2 yrs is b/c of poor treatment. I do not have links nor do i feel like trying to visit EVERY site i have read before joining this forum. Just go google betta fish and you will see that water changes = stress, sorry that ALL of you seem to think this is not a fact, but it is. But to tell me that i have to do a 100% water change every couple days, when MOST betta care sites say 50% changes are just fine every few days is shocking.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

I agree, water changes are necessary. But 100% changes every couple days is not.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I have three fish books. None of them say that water changes are stressful to your fish. In fact, one of them says you should change 50% every day if you can swing it. But most of these are talking about CYCLED tanks. There's a huge difference between changing water in a cycled tank vs. a non-cycled tank. If you're not going to cycle you have to change all the water a couple times a week. There's no getting around it.

Look, we're not ganging up on you. We're giving you our opionion and our experience which you asked for. If you knew you didn't have time for a lot of water changes going into this thread and you were just looking for us to validate what you're doing, why waste your time and ours?


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Not looking to validate anything. I am sorry that you feel i am lying and that i NEVER read that fact in multiple sites. I am done with this debate.
what does cycled mean? Like a tank with a filtration system? Because i have that



vaygirl said:


> I have three fish books. None of them say that water changes are stressful to your fish. In fact, one of them says you should change 50% every day if you can swing it. But most of these are talking about CYCLED tanks. There's a huge difference between changing water in a cycled tank vs. a non-cycled tank. If you're not going to cycle you have to change all the water a couple times a week. There's no getting around it.
> 
> Look, we're not ganging up on you. We're giving you our opionion and our experience which you asked for. If you knew you didn't have time for a lot of water changes going into this thread and you were just looking for us to validate what you're doing, why waste your time and ours?


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

btw, i am NOT against water changes, lets make that clear


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

Nobody said you were lying, nobody said you hadn't read that in multiple sites - we just simply don't _agree_ that water changes stress out fish every single time is a fact. 

Cycling: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/
(I finally bookmarked the link! Haha.)
And it also helps to google multiple sites as well.

And also, good that you're not against water changes, however nobody assumed that...


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## soleilvie (Mar 20, 2010)

You came here because you are seeing discrepancies in ways to care for your Betta, right? You seem so disgusted because people here are advising things that are different from what you have read. Isn't the whole point to get opinions and then decide for yourself how you are ultimately going to care for your Betta? If you are so hard-pressed about the way you are going to care for your Betta, then quite frankly I don't see why you are posting here. =/


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

i am NOT... i just can not believe that NO ONE see's that their are SO many different opinions on this forum as to how to care for bettas. Some even contradict themselves. I am just trying to separate fact from bunk, that's all.



soleilvie said:


> You came here because you are seeing discrepancies in ways to care for your Betta, right? You seem so disgusted because people here are advising things that are different from what you have read. Isn't the whole point to get opinions and then decide for yourself how you are ultimately going to care for your Betta? If you are so hard-pressed about the way you are going to care for your Betta, then quite frankly I don't see why you are posting here. =/


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

xxabc said:


> Nobody said you were lying, nobody said you hadn't read that in multiple sites - we just simply don't _agree_ that water changes stress out fish every single time is a fact.
> 
> Cycling: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/
> (I finally bookmarked the link! Haha.)
> ...



thank you


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

WuGolfer, yes of course there are many opinions on fishkeeping. There shall always be - but the thing is, you say that water changing causing stress is fact. However, that right there is not fact. It's like assuming Pie being better than Cake is fact. Not the best analogy, however it gets my point through hopefully . And again, I'm not trying to make this hard on you at all, I simple do not agree that it is fact, and hopefully we can leave it at that. If you say it is fact, and I disagree, we can simply leave it at that, as I can see you're very strong on that. Peace x


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

and you are stubborn by saying a water change causes NO stress at all. But hey, it's over. peace



xxabc said:


> WuGolfer, yes of course there are many opinions on fishkeeping. There shall always be - but the thing is, you say that water changing causing stress is fact. However, that right there is not fact. It's like assuming Pie being better than Cake is fact. Not the best analogy, however it gets my point through hopefully . And again, I'm not trying to make this hard on you at all, I simple do not agree that it is fact, and hopefully we can leave it at that. If you say it is fact, and I disagree, we can simply leave it at that, as I can see you're very strong on that. Peace x


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

WuGolfer, ending it in calling me stubborn is quite harsh. And please, please read over my previous posts. I have never said it didn't cause any stress. If it did, I didn't mean it and it was a poor typo.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

sorry, but basically accusing me of lying about what i have read and heard is also "harsh" but w/e does not matter anymore. it's over


xxabc said:


> WuGolfer, ending it in calling me stubborn is quite harsh. And please, please read over my previous posts. I have never said it didn't cause any stress. If it did, I didn't mean it and it was a poor typo.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Mods.. can I have permission to overflow this thread with links?... I'll get started. 

http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=18097

http://www.bettas4all.nl/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=197 <--- That was written by a world renowned betta breeder.

http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/basiccare.htm<--- Recommended by a breeder who has been in the game for years and whom I trust wholeheartedly.

http://www.bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=854 <-- That has a bunch of different articles by a well respected breeder whom several people on this forum know and have gotten fish from

http://www.gloriousbettas.com/Glorious_Bettas/Betta_Care.html<--the website of the breeder I mentioned above... feel free to email her to ask questions

I would give a bunch of threads arguing stress vs. water quality but I have a headache and I already know what they say.. clean water outweighs stress.

I'm not trying to argue.. I'm trying to prove a point. I would still like to see what forums and websites you are referring to so I can tell people to watch out for them in the future.


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

NO one directly accused you of lying. and NO one said stress ABSOLUTELY NEVER occurs when you change water. Of course it occurs! but we are saying pros outweighs the cons. nothing more nothing less. I don't understand why you cannot see that but you are seeing things we don't even type.. :-/

~TPF


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

i NEVER said water change was BAD...WOOOOW i know it's needed. But when their is info out their that SAYS it causes stress and also that 50% ones every couple days when their is a filtration system and now i am told that i have to do 100% every couple days? who is RIGHT and who is WRONG... i had 2 bettas in two .5 habitats with no filtration and once a week water changes for 2 yrs with no problems ( back then i didnt know i needed bigger) what the heck did i spend ALL that money for when i STILL have to do 100% every couple days? their is no point in having a filtration system haha. and thank you for those links.


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## hoolagal (Mar 22, 2010)

you sound like a bunch of high schoolers ... why are fish forums like this ??? you get a new fish and want the correct information and i have to agree that the information out there can be quite contradictory ... so a person comes to a forum like this and five pages of posts later, everyone is annoyed and no one has been helped ... what a waste of time and energy ... where are the forums for adults ???


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

It all comes down to cycling. A CYCLED tank needs partial water changes because full ones would kill the cycle. To have a cycle you must have a heater and a source of aeration.. usually a filter.

Unfortunately 1 gallon tanks are too small to cycle... they just can't hold enough bacteria to be able to process the ammonia produced by one fish. Some people say 1 gallon tanks can be cycled but the majority says it is too small and will not cycle.

A two gallon tank and larger is just big enough to hold a cycle (albeit the water quality is harder to keep stable in smaller tanks) so a person can get by with just doing a 50% water change.. but even those tanks need a water change twice a week. Tanks 6 gallons and larger can have 1 50% change a week, tanks 15+ gallons every two weeks, and very large tanks (like 75+ gallons) monthly.


hoogal.. there has been plenty of information given. The OP stated 7 questions that I know myself and ThePearlfish answered along with others. There is nothing Highschool about this. If what your referring to is the OP's statements that water changes cause stress and multiple water changes are not necessary.. that is not highschool.. that is a differing of opinion and trying to set the record straight. What if someone were to read this thread and think its ok to put a fish in a .5 gallon tank with weekly water changes? I for one fight for better treatment and care for the animals I love. Maybe not everyone wants to hear that but I will continue to try to teach people about proper care.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

well, when some say 3 females in a 10 gal are fine and others say..nooooo 4-6, when some say 100% changes every couple days and some say nooo that is not needed every couple days, when some say 2.5 gal is plenty for one betta and others say noooooo you need at least a 5 gal for one and when some say feed 2 pellets a day twice a day and the food container says differently and when some say filtration is good and some say noooo its bad....etc, etc, etc... what do YOU expect? Yes i have seen ALL of this on this forum.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

good info, thank you



1fish2fish said:


> It all comes down to cycling. A CYCLED tank needs partial water changes because full ones would kill the cycle. To have a cycle you must have a heater and a source of aeration.. usually a filter.
> 
> Unfortunately 1 gallon tanks are too small to cycle... they just can't hold enough bacteria to be able to process the ammonia produced by one fish. Some people say 1 gallon tanks can be cycled but the majority says it is too small and will not cycle.
> 
> A two gallon tank and larger is just big enough to hold a cycle (albeit the water quality is harder to keep stable in smaller tanks) so a person can get by with just doing a 50% water change.. but even those tanks need a water change twice a week. Tanks 6 gallons and larger can have 1 50% change a week, tanks 15+ gallons every two weeks, and very large tanks (like 75+ gallons) monthly.


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

i don't feel anyone is trying to be predatory to another as you seem to think hoolagal. this is the ONLY forum I have EVER been on that has NOT been predatory to others cus of biases. We are trying to sort out info. thats all.

WuGolfer- I think maybe you are confused with what we are trying to convey cus there are so many variables involved. we don't know your SPECIFIC situation so we can't taylor our responses perfectly to fit your needs, so we are only giving the general info. the majority of betta keepers go by.

If what we say doesn't mesh with you, we are only trying to give you our experience.

~TPF


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

WuGolfer's post is a perfect example of the list of opinions on betta housing and water changes. Yes, I've seen all of them as well (except for filtration is bad, however that was probably only an example).


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I know its confusing.. believe me 6 months ago I was in your seat.

I will tell you my opinions from my experience. I've never heard of anyone disagreeing with the way I keep my fish and I have not had one single illness/death in the last 6 months.

Here goes:

The reason people say 4+ females in a sorority is because Betta splendens are an aggressive species. In the wild females would not school.. they would be solitary. Also because of selective breeding for aggression, splendens are even more aggressive then a betta in the wild would be. SO in tanks with agressive species (from bettas to cichlids and on) the more females you have the more the aggression is spread around... frequently in tanks with 3 females two will gang up and kill one.

I don't agree with people who say you need a 5 gallon for a betta. Yes it is nice to have and yes that means you will have less water changes but IMO and experience a betta can be just as healthy in a 2.5 as they can in a 5 gallon. But as a general rule bigger is better.. the bigger your tank the more stable it is and the safer your fish is.

If your confused about feeding just do this... remember a betta's stomach is about the size of its eye and only feed an amount accordingly.

I really am at a loss to those who would say not to do full water changes on a small tank. Perhaps these people think they are talking about a cycled tank.. I don't know. All I know is this.. the cleaner the water the healthier the fish.

IMO a filter is only needed if you are going to cycle your tank... if you don't the filter is basically a waste of electricity. If you do cycle a filter is a great asset. Filters provide aeration and a place for the beneficial bacteria of a cycle to grow. The only problems with filters is they sometimes produce too much of a current for bettas.. this is easily fixed.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I would also like to add that I am always open to questions. The reason I am on these forums is to continue to learn and to share with others the knowledge I have gained. I'm on here all the time so if you have a specific question I can always be PMed or I will try to input helpful info on threads. If I can't help I will research until I can help.


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## ThePearlFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ditto above ^^


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

does a 2.5 tank housing 1 betta and one very small apple snail need filtration? if not, how after does the water needed changed?



1fish2fish said:


> I would also like to add that I am always open to questions. The reason I am on these forums is to continue to learn and to share with others the knowledge I have gained. I'm on here all the time so if you have a specific question I can always be PMed or I will try to input helpful info on threads. If I can't help I will research until I can help.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Snails need filtration so yes IMO that tank would need a filter. I would also cycle it. If you want I can get you a link to a thread I wrote on how to cycle.

Also apple snails get quite large (like the size of an apple) if fed correctly so in that case I would upgrade to a 5 gallon tank.. simply because the apple snail requires 2.5 gallons just as the betta fish does because they get so large.

In the mean time until you can get a filter I would do 2 water chages a week. One can be 50% but the other should be 100% so you can be sure you get all the ammonia out.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Wow!! A lot went on while I was away today! I kept a male betta in a .5 gallon vase for 3.5 years and he never had any health issues and died of old age. I have been accused in the past and certainly not on this forum, of abusing my bettas because I keep them in smaller containers. . This really upset me because I feel that I take good care of my bettas. I feel that smaller containers are fine but in all honesty I wouldn't recommend anything less than a one gallon. I think bettas are like people. Some handle stress better than others. Water changes upset some of my fish and others couldn't care less. I think we can have this discussion as long as we respect each others' opinions without being rude to each other.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

ya, he is one of 6 i own, they are only 6 months old  but i was made aware of how fast they grow. i bought em from a breeder. I am trying to everything i need, but i am also on a budget, and when it comes to it, betta fish are NOT cheap take care of, not by a long shot haha. could you PM that link to me? thank you and that water change plan sounds a lot more feasible than 100% every couple days haha



1fish2fish said:


> Snails need filtration so yes IMO that tank would need a filter. I would also cycle it. If you want I can get you a link to a thread I wrote on how to cycle.
> 
> Also apple snails get quite large (like the size of an apple) if fed correctly so in that case I would upgrade to a 5 gallon tank.. simply because the apple snail requires 2.5 gallons just as the betta fish does because they get so large.
> 
> In the mean time until you can get a filter I would do 2 water chages a week. One can be 50% but the other should be 100% so you can be sure you get all the ammonia out.


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## WuGolfer07 (Mar 23, 2010)

FINALLY someone has pointed out that .5 and 1 gal tanks are not the devil haha and i believe your betta did die from old age and not bad treatment. 3.5 yrs is good for a betta considering most of us get em from pet stores and usually do not know how old they are. thank you for proving i am not crazy and All fish are indeed different



dramaqueen said:


> Wow!! A lot went on while I was away today! I kept a male betta in a .5 gallon vase for 3.5 years and he never had any health issues and died of old age. I have been accused in the past and certainly not on this forum, of abusing my bettas because I keep them in smaller containers. . This really upset me because I feel that I take good care of my bettas. I feel that smaller containers are fine but in all honesty I wouldn't recommend anything less than a one gallon. I think bettas are like people. Some handle stress better than others. Water changes upset some of my fish and others couldn't care less. I think we can have this discussion as long as we respect each others' opinions without being rude to each other.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I wanna clarify: I didn't say you were lying. I said my fish books didn't have the same information you're getting. I base my info on what I've read and my own experience. I told you I was basing my information on my own experience.

I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to help. Clean water is important in an uncycled tank. That's pretty much the gist of it. The stress they get from water changes isn't as bad for them as the daily stress of living in fish waste. That's all we've been saying. I'm sorry if you thought I was calling you a liar.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

WuGolfer07 said:


> ya, he is one of 6 i own, they are only 6 months old  but i was made aware of how fast they grow. i bought em from a breeder. I am trying to everything i need, but i am also on a budget, and when it comes to it, betta fish are NOT cheap take care of, not by a long shot haha. could you PM that link to me? thank you and that water change plan sounds a lot more feasible than 100% every couple days haha


Aww.. baby snails! I keep mystery snails which are a smaller version of apple snails.

here is the link.. if you have any questions please ask.. it can be a little confusing but is not as hard as it sounds.

The reason I suggest only 2 water changes a week vs 3 or 4 is because a 2.5 is larger than a 1 gallon so the ammonia won't build up as fast.

I'm on a budget too (college student) so I understand having to save for everything. You might try checking craigslist.. you can sometimes find good stuff there.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I think you forgot the link?


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## xxabc (Feb 1, 2010)

I'd also point out that we never called you crazy on the smaller tanks or anything. I have seen some people - not on this site though - exactly accusing anything less than 1 gallon as the devil-tanks, etc (apologies if this offends anyone at all). But can you see what we're saying though? We've never called you anything bad, nor _beat_ anything down. One disagreement led into so many other things...

Now, I'll admit I prefer 5 gallons to 1 betta. But I would like to say that is my _opinion_, and for those with anything smaller I don't hate nor disagree with at all! If anyone has anyone smaller than 5 gallons, I have no issues, it's just my _own_ preference to house my _own_ bettas in 5 gallons. I even have a 5 gallon divided meaning 2 bettas, with 2.5 gallons to their own. And whether you believe me or not, I did house my betta in .5 gallon before, but I took them out after a couple of months as I liked bigger tanks anyway. And the experience with the .5 gallons was poor - my bettas were boring to me. But in the 5 gal, they're so happy! that is overjoys me when I see them. 

And we definitely all know the price of a betta, haha. I'm a high school student, so that means no job for me ~ hahah


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

Yeah, there is no simple black and white when it comes to betta keeping-as you said yourself, there are a lot of different takes on it. 
Some people keep them in smaller tanks, which I think is OK as long as you're willing to maintain it properly. I personally prefer tanks that are 2.5+ because it gives bettas room to swim, but I think even something like 1 gallon is okay as long as you're willing to change the water regularily. No one is going to jump at you and say that you NEED a specific tank size. hell, you could keep a betta in a 200G if you wanted to.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

oops.. sorry!! It was late haha.

HERE is the link: Its on cycling fish in so if you want to cycle fishless your going to have to look somewhere else.. I haven't done a fishless cycle yet but I can give you a few good articles.

Link--> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=34505


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