# Betta in 29 gallon tank is MISERABLE!!



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey ya'll Im new, and I have questions. I am not new to bettas, at one point I was mom to 8 separate tanks, all heated and filtered. But my newest love is a little red and blue veil tail name Optimus. I had him in my 29 gallon tank and he was miserable. I have never known a betta to hunker down and be so depressed. He was laying on the bottom with his little gills just heaving, and his color went from super vibrant to a pasty greyish version. I was worried. So I put him in a medium breeder box that just floats inside the tank. His color is back and better than ever, he likes to chill on top of his moss balls, and he's put weight on, because he was super skinny. Anyway, I've noticed that the bottom of his little box gets really dirty and I worry that the water is stagnating. So my question would be, what hood can I use to add another HOB filter, and what can I do to keep Opi's box from stagnating. He's not very old and I'd like to keep him around and happy for at least another four years. 
So I need:
To know what hood would allow for two hob filters, one a 40 gallon, and another 20 gallon. 
And...Is there a better way to keep a betta in a larger tank? There's no option to get another tank and I'd really like to keep a few more bettas in the same tank (In another box maybe?) Unless that would be detrimental to the betta I have. I have a community tank so sectioning the tank would be impossible. I was looking into doing a Marine large breeder box, but you can't have a hood with those, so what solutions would make that a real option for me? 

Sorry that this is so long winded, but this is my first tank that was larger than a five gallon single fish tank.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi there! 

So I want to first say that you can't put two male Betta's together and you cannot have a few females in with a male. You can have all females and be fine but you can't mix the sexes and expect them to be content.

And here's what I think is happening to him when he's in the big tank:

Betta's are scared of big open waters by nature, they live in Rice Paddies which consists of very tall plants EVERYWHERE lol so literally they're gliding through plant stems all day long in their little territories, not really too many big spaces there.

So what happens when a Betta is introduced to a tank that has lots of big wide spaces? They kind of freak out! Now, it's not the size of the tank that matters but what you put in it ;-) they can have a freak out in a completely bare 5 gallon as well but be extremely content in a densely planted 45 gallon tank. So if you want him back in there, you just have to add lots of ornaments and silk plants. Nothing plastic as they will rip the fins as I'm sure you know. But lots of silk plants would be great, live plants being an even better choice if you could! But that's a big step.

To answer another question, breeder boxes still have flow going through them but they don't just push all the poop and stuff out of it because it has slits in the sides. You still have to clean out the breeder boxes, preferably with a Turkey Baster to clean up the bottom of it. So there's no need for another filter if you just get a turkey baster to spot clean his little box.

If you wanted to keep him in there, you should get him a few small silk plants or some Java Fern and Anubias as they are smaller, slow growing, easy low light plants for him to rest on and play in. They don't need to be planted either, they will just attach to the box after a while or you can anchor it down with a rock, that might be a better choice.

But that's all I've got for now. Feel free to ask more questions and what not


----------



## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

+1 lilnaugrim explained it beautifully. Lots of plants and hidey holes are imperative to break up the space and make your betta feel more secure.


----------



## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

Also, if your new betta went straight from one of those store cups to a 29g, you probably blew his mind. Imagine the difference between what he's lived in all his life to a 29! What I've begun doing when putting a new betta in a bigger tank, is leaving him in a breeder box that is within the larger tank for two days. Let the betta slowly get used to what he's seeing. It seems that by the time I put them in the tank, their curiosity has overridden their fear and they're just dying to get out and check out their new surroundings.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah thanks Nicci! ;-)


----------



## Lucubration (Jul 7, 2013)

I just let my male betta out of his breeder box into his new 20 gal planted tank. He did exactly the same sulk even though he'd technically been in that tank for five days or so in the breeder box. He actually got so still at one point I was afraid he'd had a heart attack and died!

When I left the room and returned a short while later, however, he was near the top slowly cruising past a female in *her* breeder box in full flare (his first; so cute), and she was going nuts striping up for him. He also quickly found a few hiding spots behind rocks and among plant leaves.

I think the most important thing to help a betta enjoy a new tank is that they have interesting things to check out and a safe refuge they can retreat to so as to feel hidden and protected.


----------



## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

Some just seem to be agoraphobic. I've got a couple of new guys today, most of them are enjoying their nice big spaces. But I've got a crowntail who is only happy in a little space. It happens

Lilnaugrim covered how to keep his box nice. You could try another male free-swimming in the same tank. So long as they can't get to each other, they'll be fine, lots of people keep bettas in divided tanks.


----------



## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

You can get those QT or breeding boxes that actually hang on the side of a large tank. They are slotted on the bottom to let waste out. I'm going that route for a few of my males. They are gonna hang out in the sorority tank.


----------



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

thank you everyone!! I am well aware that you cannot have to male bettas together with out a separator, as they would fight to the death...and after my first attempt to breed went bad...I've never had a wish to put to bettas of either sex together in a tank with out something in between them. 

My tank is a bare bottom tank, yes, but I do have a lot of silk plants, caves, hidey holes, and other interesting things for him to poke at. I have no idea how to post a picture or I would put one up for y'all to see. I have a community tank, but no other bettas as of yet, I've got five glo tetras (white skirts), they are super hardy little fish, I've got three harlequins. My school was bigger, but they started dieing off little by little and I'm thinking its because we got them at petsmart (or petstupid as the hubby likes to call them.) I've also got some version of a catfish...I have no idea what he is, my lfs owner tossed him in as a freebie and didn't tell me what he was. I've got a mystery snail, and thats everybody. In the breeder box where I'm keeping Opi, I've got a silk leaf suctioned to the wall and two small marimo moss balls in the bottom. He seems to be really happy, but I was thinking about upgrading to the Marina large breeder box. Had anyone used this for bettas? Does it work? 

Also it was mentioned that live plants would be a good idea...but my tank is bare bottomed and I refuse to go back to gravel. Its nothing but a poop catcher and its disgusting. So I've been scouring the internet to find out more about potted plants in bb tanks. Do any of you have any tips or tricks for this, or should I just jump in blind and see what happens? I'm on a tight budget, but I'm willing to try anything to keep my pets happy. After all I'm the one who put them in that tank anyway. Might as well keep 'em in good water with good things to poke at. 

Also I have a question regarding this catfish. He's small, about five inches long head to tip of tail, and he's dark brown with black spots all over. He looks a lot like the URL below body wise, but he's much much darker and he's got pinhead spots, not patterning. I'll try to post a vid on my you tube channel, just to help y'all out a little. If anyone can tell me what he is I'd consider it a bonus. Thanks you guys, you are really wonderful people helping me out. 

http://bluegrassaquatics.com/media/...d6e5fb8d27136e95/C/A/CATFISH_LACE_REGULAR.jpg


----------



## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

ScarlettLetter86 said:


> Also it was mentioned that live plants would be a good idea...but my tank is bare bottomed and I refuse to go back to gravel. Its nothing but a poop catcher and its disgusting.


You could try sand. Poop will stay on top of the sand, so it's easy to vacuum out. Also, if you have enough live plants, the plants will actually use the waste as nutrients. When I had gravel with plants, I didn't worry too much about getting all the waste out because I knew the plants would use it. Or, you could do plants that don't need to be rooted. Hornwort, frogbit, duckweed- they all just float. Anubias and java fern can simply be tied to hardscape items.

Of course, with live plants, you have to start thinking about the right kind of lighting.


----------



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok so if i use sand, what kind of sand are we talking about? Also doesn't sand have an issue with catching pockets of gas that can kill your fish? I realize that non of my fish are very expensive money wise, but I love each and every one of them and it would really make me very sad to loose them due to a silly mistake like that...how would you keep the sand from flying every where? I was really into the idea of an under water sand fall...so that may be a good idea. I have room in my tank for some more bottom feeders if they would be useful for turning the sand over. I was also thinking of doing a potted tank, like they do for discus fish. What is the general feeling on water lettuce? I like the look of it. Also do any of you guys now a good supplier of these plants. I bought plants from petsmart and my old five gallon was over run with rams horn snails. I liked them because they were great for algae, but I don't have that problem with this tank, so they would just be another burden on my bio load. 
Anybody wanna take a wack at what my catfish may be? I took a vid of him today and I'll post a link when I get it uploaded.


----------



## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

Corydoras catfish are pretty common, come in the color pattern you described, and have bodies like the fish pictured, but have slightly different heads.

You can use only an inch or two of sand, and that's not deep enough to hold pockets of waste or gas. I never worry about it flying everywhere - it settles. Just rinse it really, really well first.

Water lettuce is very cool, and there is even a miniature variety that's on my want list. If you have the headroom for it (a well lit tank with no lid) water hyacinth is even prettier.

Craft mesh makes good pots for aquatic plants, and you can make them the size and shape you want. You can line them with cheesecloth if you're concerned about the soil coming out.


----------



## Flyby Stardancer (Jun 19, 2013)

OP, I just have to say that I love the name of your fish! lol


----------



## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

ScarlettLetter86 said:


> Ok so if i use sand, what kind of sand are we talking about? Also doesn't sand have an issue with catching pockets of gas that can kill your fish? I realize that non of my fish are very expensive money wise, but I love each and every one of them and it would really make me very sad to loose them due to a silly mistake like that...how would you keep the sand from flying every where?


I honestly think that anaerobic pockets are something of an urban myth in the aquarium hobby. However, like Riverotter implied, the sand has to be pretty deep for pockets to form. You could keep it shallow, use a poker to poke the sand every now and then, and/or stir it up where there are no plants roots. Where there are plant roots, they will prevent anaerobic pockets from forming by introducing oxygen into the substrate. You can also get some Malaysian trumpet snails to burrow through and aerate the sand.

My corys and loaches are useful to stir the top layer a bit so that particles float up and are caught by the filter.

Sand will sink quickly to the bottom and doesn't fly all over at all. When I need to add more sand (my loaches are so fond of digging, they keep uncovering the soil layer I have underneath), I just pour it in the tank and it settles instantly.

You can use the sand sold at pet stores (not the fancy live coral sand). Some use play sand which has to be rinsed first a lot more. I use pool filter sand- the size of the particles are just right, not too fine or coarse and it has a nice natural color to it. Both of these last two you can pick up at a hardware store.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I use this method of washing my sand when I first get new sand for the tank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XB0bwtZh8 it doesn't show the first steps which is just take a clean water bottle of any sort, I used a paper funnel held together by duct tape and then used a small cup to scoop out sand and into the bottle. I fill it about 3/4 and then you lower it into the tank and let it sit on the bottom as the air escapes and it fills with water, then you see in the video were you flip it over, let the sand come out and then you flip it back right side up and take it out. I then pour the water into another bucket and repeat the above steps. This replaces the washing for regular aquarium sand. I don't suggest this if you are going to use play sand or pool sand as it does require actual washing, but I use this with store bought sand and works great! I get some particles floating but it settles pretty darn quickly!

You can get pockets of the air but at each water change, I just churn a section of sand after I've vacuumed around that area so the poop doesn't go into the sand when I churn it. And so I don't worry so much ^_^ It takes about 8-10 weeks for the pocket's to form, it's not something that happens right away so really you only have to churn it once every 8-ish weeks but I just do it with the water change so I don't forget about it. I don't do it all at once either, I churn just a section of it at a time so it doesn't release a lot of gasses at once if there are gasses in there


----------



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey ya'll I've got news. I've got sand on its way, I went with pool filter sand, as its supposed to be great for tanks, and I bought a few other things that I think will help with my tank. My betta is currently still in his box, but I've been letting him out to allow him time to acclimate to a bigger tank. He is currently switching back and forth with my other betta, a gorgeous purple HM boy that I just had to have. He will some be transferred to a breeder box that hangs on the outside of the tank. I just have to wait for it to get here. As for my cat fish I was wondering if anyone else wanted to take a crack at it. I have a vid up on youtube 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1FLd75HT5I this is the link if you want to look at him and guess as to what he might be. Thanks for all your help and advice I really appreciate it.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Just make sure to wash the sand really really well, pool filter sand can be really messy but it looks nice when clean!! :-D

The catfish looks like it might be a young one of these: http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=965 I'm no expert though.


----------



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

thank you lilnaugrim, i will be useing the bucket method to clean the sand as I did do a little research as how to clean large amounts of pool sand, but if I hadn't known I'd be in big trouble had you not told me. 

As for the catfish, you are correct in the body, except the mouth and Alfies scales are different. They are an awful lot like a corydoras. I'm telling you I have looked everywhere for what he might be. The lfs told me that he would never get any bigger and so far he's not grown at all and I've had him long enough that I think he'd be growing by now. I don't even know who else to ask...

As for my betta's a small update, I have totally redone my tank...again...and I have released the new betta into the tank, and partitioned part of the tank off to coral a very nasty tempered gourami that will be going back to the lfs. I didn't realize they were so mean and he's been terrozing my female gourami to heck and back. So he will be finding a new home with some one who can care for him better. Once he is gone Optimus will be taking his place in the smaller portion of the tank where I think he will be very happy. There's no current but he's still getting the same water quality and a very roomy three gallons all to himself. As for Jar Jar, he is doing wonderful in the bigger part of the tank and I really love watching his poke around at all the new stuff. He's a red cambodian halfmoon...who has yet to flare...dang it...with purple influence. At the store i thought he was purple and snapped him up. Turns out he was just color muted from being in a dirty cup for so long. But I love him anyway. More update and a vid soon to come!!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Glad I could be of help then! That would have been super unfortunate if I didn't say something!!!!

Yeah Gourami's will often chase other female/male unless there is enough females to go around. I prefer the ratio of 1:3 M:F since they're like female Betta's; the more aggression you can spread around the better so that just not one Betta is being picked on constantly.


----------



## ScarlettLetter86 (Jul 10, 2013)

So my betta from petsmart died...go figure. Not sure what happened, he was fine when I left for work and dead when I got home...

But Optimus is doing so good. I decided to try turning his bubbler off and now he's happy as any betta I've ever owned. I put a sock over the internal filter to slow the water down, and I used a plastic bag over my HOB filter to baffle it. He's off in his own side of the tank, and kept there by a divider, but he really seems to like it that way. The long skirts can't pick on him, and they can still have their bubbler going. I'm getting a 50 gallon tank this weekend and I'm going to take the sand I got and plant that thing and turn it into a female betta tank. Not sure how to go about that, and I have no idea where to buy the females from, being that petsmart is the only place that sells females around where I live and I'm not buying from them again. But hey, its all an adventure, right? I'm so excited!


----------

