# Need Some Advice Regarding My Dog



## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

Okay, so I have a beautiful nine year old chow mix named Tina. She's wonderful with my family, but here's the thing. I recently moved an hour away and got a job at a petstore, at which I am able to get free shots for Tina at the shot clinic we have on the third thursday of every month. So, I'm going to bring Tina up here to do it. If she behaves well, I'll be bringing her to visit with me much more often.

Here's the thing. My boyfriend and I rent out two rooms in a large house where two other dogs, a elderly lab and an old cranky chihuahua, also live. Tina has lived alone all her life as far as other dogs are concerned. The only contact she's had is with stray dogs wandering into our front yard at my mother's, where she would growl and bark at them through the fence until they went away or we chased them away. She's also seen some through fences when I walked her, but was pretty good at ignoring them when I gave the leash a firm tug and told her 'no'. I'm not worried about the lab; he's very relaxed and is okay with all dogs, thus I'm sure were it just him, it would be easier to get Tina to relax. The problem is the chihuahua. Her owner is a terrible 'pack leader' and lets this little dog be a dominant terror of an alpha. So I'm afraid that she's going to run up to my dog, barking and snarling, and my dog is going to 'put her in her place' because the owner of the other two dogs doesn't know how to control them.

Also, the rules at this house are very different from my other house. At the other house, no one cares if she gets on the furniture because, well, the furniture is crappy. ((There is a pecking order though. Anything that is actively sat on or laid on on a regular basis she only gets on with permission.)) She doesn't have a crate(and when she was a puppy she cried so loudly in one we just got rid of it), but under my mother's bed is sort of her 'den'. ((It's a very tall bed, so it's about the right size for her, just long.)) But here, my boyfriend would have a fit if she got on any of the furniture. I don't know if I can afford to buy a crate for what might be a one time visit if she doesn't behave for her to sleep in. Or if she'd sleep in it at all. I also don't know if I should give her access to water in the crate. I've heard both sides of that argument. However, she's part chow and thus prone to overheating, so I'm thinking I'll provide it regardless.

I want her to come here and be a good girl like I know she is so everyone will love her and her staying here won't be a problem, but I'm so scared she'll do one thing wrong and be condemned.

1) I will be buying her a muzzle. Just in case. It will be a mesh muzzle so hopefully it won't bother her too much. As she lives an hour away and this will be happening in one week, I don't have the time to condition her to like the muzzle. But I'd rather that than everyone be scared of her and her hurt someone or some dog because they don't know how to handle her. She needs time to get used to people, but people around here are used to just walking up and petting a dog because it's there.

2) I will be finding some way to confine her when I am not able to be there to watch her. For her own safety as well as others. It's not that I don't trust her, but she is a runner, and she won't be used to everyone in the house. I'd rather all visits with her be supervised until she is completely comfortable. But I'm not sure if I have eighty dollars to drop on a crate. Even with my discount at my job it would still be over seventy dollars.

3) We have never been successful in feeding her kibble. She's never liked it. She'll leave it to rot in the bowl if we don't notice she didn't eat it. Thanks to my new job, I have a better understanding of dog nutrition and will be putting her on a good quality kibble on a schedule, and will tell my family to do the same when she goes home. I worry that she will not eat it, however. I've heard chows are notorious for being picky, so that at least answers WHY she hates her dog food. ((Also the fact that it's crappy grocery store brands probably doesn't help...))

4) She will always be on a leash when not in our two rooms. I figure that's safest for everyone, especially considering there's another man she does not know in the house. She has never been comfortable with men. She makes exceptions only for my friends and only after extensive introductions. She is a one family dog, and must be approached carefully, as she IS a guard dog and considers all strangers a potential threat to her alpha. ((If anyone ever went for me while out walking, she'd probably tear their arm off first. I'm touched she loves me enough to protect me, but it makes going in public difficult.))

So, does anyone have any suggestions? Anything at all?


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

First, you gotta relax! Take a breath and stop for a moment.

Ok, so she's a Chow mix and you gotta take that into consideration, but she's not just a breed. She's an individual.

You used the term "pack leader" so maybe you've watched Cesar Milan? (Don't judge. I'm not endorsing him, I'm just trying to relate!) I may not agree with everything Cesar does, but I think he has some good points. One thing he encourages is to picture the positive outcome you're seeking. You've got a *whole* lotta negative going on with you're fears and you're almost setting yourself up for failure.

Dogs are not wolves, but they're close. They are pack animals and from the research I've seen the dog of today is very, very attuned to human behaviors. They take their cues from their leaders. In this case it seems like you're going to be tense and nervous, which will translate to your guard dog breed to be alert for danger.

I don't know what to do about the bratty chihuahua. Sorry.

As for feeding, I'm glad you are learning more about canine nutrition. I will say, it's generally us that make our dogs "picky." Think of it, dogs are actually one of the most successful animals on the planet. They left their cousins, the wolf, behind and ingrained themselves into human culture. They are masters at interpreting human behavior and they are master manipulators! Be assured, NO dog will voluntarily starve to death if there is food available. I don't know enough about your situation to speak to it but usually out goes like this... Food is offered that is new, or different. Maybe it's not exactly what the dog would like so they turn up their nose. The ever dotting human sees this and immediately fears the dog will starve so they offer new food, or "higher value" toppings like gravies, or table scraps. This continues until the dog is eating steak while the human has cold cereal. OK, a bit exaggerated but that's the general idea. Offer the kibble, put it down for only a half hour or less then pick it up and put it away. Do this once or twice a day. No treats. No scraps. Nothing but the kibble and that is only offered for a limited time. Eventually a hungry dog will eat what's offered. You can reintroduce treats but I wouldn't give any around meal times.

Hope this helps a little.

ETA: I've got more ideas, but it's hard to swype this all out on my Android phone. Plus it's almost 5am and I need some sleep! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thekinetic (May 22, 2012)

Ok first about the furniture, either pick to keep her off it or let her on it. You can't have both as it confuses the dog.

Set down the kibble and leave it, she will eat when she is hungry.

Around other dogs, she's going be what she is going to be. There's not much you can do about it without actively trying to break her of her habits.

Lastly that milan guy is full of S***. As much as I love dogs, in the end you are NOT a dog and are NOT part of their pack. You are their master, master of even the highest alpha.

If you want your dog to listen, when you say something you must also be thinking it and feeling it. And look them in the eyes when you do. Even that bratty chihuahua would tuck tail and run at that.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

The problem is the chihuahua isn't mine, and the owner gets upset with me if I try to control her. And being a master is being an alpha, but if an owner doesn't lead, they aren't one. I don't watch Ceasar, this is stuff I've picked up from watching dogs. A confident person, a good leader, has no trouble controlling their dog. Someone like this woman with the lab and chihuahua, lets them rule her. They have her trained to feed them canned dog food with leftovers sprinkled on top from a spoon for christ sake, she has NO control over these dogs. I'm not a bad owner, but I fear her being a bad owner is going to get either my dog or her dogs hurt.

As far as the furniture, the only one she gets on without permission is a ratty old couch that acts as her dog bed.

I suppose thanks for the advice, though it's all conflicting and doesn't address how to be sure my dog doesn't hurt the other dogs or vice versa. We live upstairs, so there's NO way to just avoid them as they are between our rooms and outside.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I understand your concerns. I've had dogs since I was 2 (am now 24) and have raised a wolf hybrid. I can only share my personal knowledge and opinions with you. It is really up to you to decide what to do.

1) Good for you for thinking about the muzzle. It's a good idea in this situation. It will make everyone involved safer. That anyone ever just walks up and pets a dog blows my mind every time I see someone do it. You should always allow the dog to sniff you first and take your clues on if you can proceed from the dog. All I can suggest is to explain to everyone that she is a little people shy and to please allow her to sniff a hand before attempting to pet.

2) If no crate, can you confine her to one specific room? Not the best of situations, in my opinion, but better than nothing at all. In my experience, this can be done easily with something such as a baby gate.

3) A dog will not starve itself. Once they are hungry enough, they will eat. I feed my puppy (and future service dog) Blue. It doesn't have all the fillers that most other brands have and is made to more mimic the diet they would have in the "wild". Since switching my pup to it, he is in much better health. His skin and furn look fantastic. If anything, you can always add a little chicken broth to the dry food. It wont hurt the dog and I have yet to find one that will refuse it.

4) There are many ways to work with this. My favored method is to have a man give treats when near the dog. Treats are only given if she is calm. He is NOT to look at her. Only give the treat.

In my experience, you are a part of the pack. You can either lead it or be considered a submissive. Yes, you are not a dog but your pet will still see you as part of their pack and will act accordingly.

Again, just my opinions and experiences. I have raised puppies and rehabilitated dogs. My wolf hybrid was trained well enough that I could leave a plate with steak on the floor and leave the room for some time. Going back, he would not have touched the steak. I rehomed him to a family with kids on a farm. Very good dog.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

I recommend reading the following artices:

http://www.woofology.com/alpha myth.html

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2007250,00.html

Forget the dominance/pack leader theory. Pack leaders are the ones who control the resources which is by default people. Most other stuff lumped into the theory are based on faulty science or a lack of understanding of dog behaviour.

In any case, it sounds like your chow is dog intolerant, no big deal but you should talk to the other people in your house about rotating the dogs or being able to put their dogs up to be able to get your dogs out. Exercise the crap out of your dog, and do lots of training, so when she needs to be confined it isnt a huge issue. 

I would highly recommend not giving leash corrections or other physical corrections around other dogs, as this could backfire and reinforce her dislike of other dogs. Basically it will be other dogs=punishment. 

I would recommend desensitizing her to other dogs, if you can afford a certified behavourist then hire one (A real certified behaviourist), if not then try these
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/desensitizing.htm
http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/webfm_send/43
I would work on self control exercises like doggy zen and also teach her watch me, so you can keep her focused and her attention on you around other dogs. Teaching leave it would also be helpful.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Another thing you can try is asking if you can take one of the dogs for a walk with her. Walk with one dog on each side. She should wear her muzzle at first to keep things safe. I have known this technique to work.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

I'll try the walk thing. If I can handle the lab; they're both pullers! Maybe I should hook them to a sled, lol. Anyways, as far as being dog intolerant, it's not that she is, I've just never had her on neutral ground to find out. Thanks for all the tips guys!


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

If only it was your dog. A head collar is a really quick way to end pulling. I find the look they give you the first time they turn themselves around a little comical. I use them for when I'm training the dog in proper leash manners.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

walk your dogs seperately if you can, that will give you time to teach both of them not to pull and how to behave on leash. Personally I dont like head halters, front clip harnesses can work well, but i prefer to work with a flat collar and teach the dog rather then use a crutch. 
here are a few loose leash training videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueE1S1k74Ao&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ&feature=player_embedded


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I believe they actually debunked the theory that dogs are a pack animal. There have been studies done to show that there is a lot of misconceptions regarding dominant and submissive behaviour. For starters an alpha roll is actually supposed to be initiated by the submissive dog, not the more dominant one. This is why it's pointless to continually roll dogs over and get in their face. 

This is why I don't like Cesar Milan. He usually uses flooding to completely overwhelm the dogs on his show until they finally submit. This is not conductive training long-term. He also does a lot of other things I don't agree with and I want to know how many of the dogs he features on his shows regress once the cameras stop rolling.

People get so caught up on being pack leader they don't see that you are not part of a pack or even an equal partnership. As the human you are in charge, and whatever you say goes, no if, buts or maybes. 

I don't like halties as they can cause damage to the neck and every single dog I've seen in them has always tried to get it off as soon as they were let off the lead.

A correctly fitted and utilised choke or check collar is best for bigger dogs. It is supposed to be one short, sharp correction and then immediate release once the dog complies. The purpose of the collar is defeated if you allow your dog to lean into it until they are half-strangling themselves. 

Dogs are usually a hundred times more aggressive and stressed on a lead when meeting other dogs than when off it. This is because the owner tends to be freaking out and tightening the leash as soon as they see another dog look in their direction. This conveys that this is something scary or threatening approaching, and will cause your dog to act accordingly. Be confident and relaxed. Watch both dog's behaviour carefully and always try and end it on a good note.

Personally I would let the chi and your dog meet off lead. Most little dogs are all talk and will crap themselves and back down in the face of a bigger dog. Just be careful the chi being spoiled does not become protective or aggressive because its owner is in the room. The little dog next door does this and it is very annoying when you try and approach it with your dog.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

I use a harness for my dog because she slips normal collars and is a runner, and after buying the crate(seventy bucks down the drain...ouch...) I don't have another thirty to spend on a choke collar her size. Also, she's not huge, maybe forty or fifty pounds, about the size of a heeler, so I would be concerned with hurting her neck.

The problem with letting the chi and Tina meet off lead is because the woman who owns the chi will be screaming about how my dog is going to hurt her dog while her dog tries to be agressive towards my dog. Hence the muzzle. Without the muzzle, she wouldn't have let me bring her at all. I might be able to let them meet off leash with a muzzle, but the muzzle is non negotiable, and even spending so much on stuff for her, I'm still saving hundreds by getting her shots here. Will she be okay with that?

Also, the lab is also this woman's, and she doesn't even know why her dog needs a leash at all. (Tried the "its the law" argument, didn't work.) He likes to actually take the leash from you with his teeth and walk himself. She thinks it's cute. I think it's annoying.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

i wouldnt use a choke (you could do some serious damage with one) and I wouldnt let the dogs off leash together.
Taking them for a walk together could be a good idea, but TBH for both dogs safety I would work on the desensitzation protocols i posted before.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

I won't see my dog until I pick her up Wednesday for this adventure. She lives an hour away with my aging mother who doesn't have the time or strength to train her. I'm trying to get my "landlord" to let her move in with me, but if this doesn't go well it's impossible.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If that's the way the owner will react then it's probably wise to leave the muzzle on. I wouldn't let my dog into any situation where someone is screaming and panicking. Lady sounds like a nutbar and I would definitely limit her access to your dog as much as possible.

Our shepherds are only 50 or so pounds and a check collar will not hurt them if you use it correctly. But if you are happy and can control your dog properly with a harness then you don't need to switch. 

I've never used a muzzle but I would definitely try and get Tina used to wearing one before putting it on her there and meeting a new dog. Even for 10-15 minutes. She probably won't mind it but you don't want her first experience with it to be a bad one if it's something she will be wearing regularly.

Sounds like a tough situation. Sometimes people don't realise how much of a disservice they do to their smaller dogs when they spoil them and don't teach them proper manners.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

It is indeed a shame. And this little dog only misbehaves when her owner is home. This woman also freaks out when we actually play with the lab and make him exercise because he has hip problems. When being more active would HELP. And I plan to get some training treats and give her lots of them while first putting it near, then on her. I'm only going to get it when she's with me though so I get a proper fit. I just hope she behaves well enough that we can ditch it. I hate muzzling her, I don't want people thinking she's vicious or anything. She's just people shy and dog wary. She's fine once she knows you.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

By the way, now that I'm on an actual computer, here is a picture of Tina, just because I can. I woke her up for the picture, so if she looks a little sleepy, that's why.










Apparently Gloria, the woman who owns the other two dogs, said she looked...plain... behind my back. -.- This woman really irks me.

Anyways, now that I have a full sized keyboard and a not-dying computer, I know I'm worrying a lot, I just hope she takes well to other dogs. I eventually want to put forth an argument for her to move in with us. I miss her quite a bit, she's been the only constant friend I've had since I was ten.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

She reminds me a bit of our old kelpie X. The eyes are the same. Not plain at all. She has a very athletic/working dog type build, though I would not have picked her as part chow! 

Poor little dog. The one next door is like that as her owners let her get up on everything, jump on guests, be incredibly fussy with her food etc. 

The one time we took our dog over to meet Missy, she was was snapping and snarling because the owner was holding her leash. As soon as I took the lead she did one snap, got corrected for it and was fine with having our dog sniff her. 

Some people find it funny to have their dogs behave like this. Especially little dogs. Then they act like your dog is a murderer if it so much as growls in retaliation.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

You can see the chow more when she stands. She has the tail, the fur pattern(though nowhere near as fluffy!) and the characteristic blue tongue of course.  She has so much personality and expresses so much with her eyes! And she is very much an athlete, it's a good thing we have a big back yard with a big hill to work her out cause she loves to run! ((We also have a squirrel that lives in the back yard that runs up and down the fence teasing her; gives her quite the good work out, lol.))

Yeah, I dislike when people try to tell me their vicious chihuahua wouldn't hurt a fly. A poodle bit me at work once while the owners weren't paying attention. I didn't even touch it. I knelt down to let it sniff my hand and it bit me! Luckily it didn't break skin, the owners just chuckled at how cute their snarling poodle was. Meanwhile we have a couple that brings in a pair of mastiffs who are the sweetest, most well behaved dogs I've ever met, but people with pocket dogs give them a wide berth and look at them funny.

Yeah, when the owner is home the chihuahua, Chickie, barks at EVERYTHING that moves. When the owner's gone, she's just a sweet old lady dog that wants peace and quiet. The lab picked up this behavior so leaving the house while the owner is home is a noisy ordeal. But her overweight spoiled ill behaving dogs are perfect angels of course. It's not like I work in a pet store or anything. She debates with me over nutrition too. She doesn't get why grain is becoming considered more and more bad for dogs, free feeds kibble all day, gives them tons of table scraps, then wonders why they won't eat their cans at night. The chihuahua is also overweight AND has an enlarged liver. The lab is slightly overweight, as well. But of course if I try to tell her this, everyone but my boyfriend in the house protests and says they look perfectly healthy. I've stopped trying.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Our neighbours are like that. They are like grandparents to me but all of their dogs have been poorly socialised and grossly obese. Their old boxer was allowed to sit on the couch and intimidate guests she didn't like. I once wore a dress that made me look different and she advanced on me snarling until she heard my voice and recognised me.

I would be absolutely mortified if that was my dog but they thought it was funny. Same as when the same dog tried to mount me while I was sitting on the floor.

Their new dog looks like an ottoman she is so fat. They say she won't eat normal dog food but she tried that trick with me when I was babysitting her and I came back the next morning and the food was all gone. Now they hand-feed her buttered toast and other table scraps. 

Just make sure the lady doesn't set your dog up for failure; she certainly doesn't sound like the world's best owner. If she is home when you are not I would make sure she cannot access Tina if you can. You will only have her side of the story to go on if something happens.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

That's why I bit the bullet and bought Tina a crate, even though she never liked the one we put her in as a puppy. ((I'm also going to get her a bone and a new toy to keep her happy when she has to be in it.)) She ruined my boyfriend's lab, so I'm not letting her decide anything for my dog. And if Tina ever moves here permanently, I'm putting a lock on our 'apartment' door so she can't get in and ruin her. I've spent too much of my life trying to make her the best dog possible. The funny thing is that this woman watches the dog whisperer religiously, and doesn't even take even the smallest bit of advice from it. ((He may have some weird methods, but there are some things that she could take away from it, like taking charge of her dogs and being the boss instead of letting them train her. I'm not exaggerating when I say those dogs have her trained to feed them canned dog food with chicken and rice sprinkled on top to them out of a spoon.)) 

If my dog doesn't like the dog food we give her she'll literally leave it to rot, unfortunately because my grandmother will gladly share dinner with her. -.- I know, not good, but my grandmother has alzheimers and has had a stroke, the dog gives her a reason to get up in the morning. Plus, a lot of leftovers they have are just cooked meat. Not a wonderful addition to a diet, but at least it's not bread or cookies. If I did have Tina move in, I'd get her a toy breed to take care of. ((I know a woman who has chihuahuaxspaniel mix puppies because her dog got out on accident, I'd rather take one than it end up in a shelter.))


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

So I looked up the Australian Kelpie, and while she still has a few traits of a chow, I agree she looks a lot like one!  So glad to have that mystery solved.


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