# Rant + which of us is right?



## Rosska (Jun 10, 2012)

Recently me and my boyfriend have been arguing bitterly over fishkeeping. Both of us are stubborn and we are both under the opinion that we are right. I was hoping to settle this once and for all by seeking the advice of knowledgable fishkeepers on these forums. Any input is appreciated.

Basically, my boyfriend decided that he wanted to start fishkeeping. I was really excited for him and I told him what species would be suitable for the little 3 gal tank that he had. He wasn't too keen on shrimp or fighters. He had his heart set on a kuhli loach. I read up on them and told him a kuhli would be too big for his tank and that he should get a bigger tank if he wants a kuhli, or keep his small tank and put something suitable in it.

However, a few days later he went and bought both a kuhli loach and a betta for his tank. I was irked, but he was unwavering in his choice and I couldn't convince him that the tank was overstocked. Everything went well for a week. Then, this happened:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=108743

Listening to the advice that forum members gave me, I urged him not to get any more fish and to consider returning his loach. He was really annoyed, he was all: "Ughhh, I'm not just having a loach... I never see him. And there's all that space at the top. How's it overstocked?"
I tried to explain it to him, but apparently it fell on deaf ears because he bought 3 guppies shortly after.

We got into a massive argument over it. I tried to convince him to take them back. But he claimed "They have tons of room to swim around. It's not overstocked.".

That whole week we pretty much argued about it. I honestly could have slapped him (unfortunately he lives in another country from me) after he claimed that he knew better than expert fishkeepers and that "they're wrong, my tank has plenty of room. Me and my family have had fish for ages. We know this stuff.".

We agreed not to mention the fish again, as it was pretty much tearing our relationship apart. I thought that was the end of it. But a few days ago he got a tiny baby kuhli loach to add to his 3gal. Now, when he got his big loach I _told_ him to cover the filter intake, as I had read that kuhlis and filters generally do not mix and that they're prone to being injured by them. He said his big loach had already 'learned' not to go near the filter.

But, last night disaster struck and his baby loach got caught up in the filter and well... it didn't survive. He then ranted about how fish were 'stupid things' and that 'all they do is die'. He even said that the loach was a 'waste of £1' and that it would make a good meal for the guppies. His large kuhli was probably quite traumatised, as he apparently lost his colour just after he incident.

I was really sickened by what he said. I thought he was a gentle, mellow kind of guy, but his 'blame the fish' attitude was really uncalled for. It led to more arguing between us and we were pretty much at the breaking point. He apologised this morning, but it still leaves a bitter taste.

*Rant over.*

What I would like to know though, is who is right? (Or are we both wrong?) In the thread about his betta, I was told that the kuhli was too big. Is his tank overstocked, like I claim? Or is he right, and there is plenty room? He checks his water parameters daily and they're always good and his fish appear to be in good health, so he thinks everything is fine. And if you agree it's overstocked, do you have any suggestions as to how I can convince him not to buy more fish? If you agree with my bf, then how do you decide how many fish is 'too many'?

Thank you <3


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## Pilot00 (Jul 24, 2012)

You are right and he is wrong. And two dead fish are the proof. Your advice was correct he was just stubborn. I face this all the time with my father, fortunately he usually submits before its late.

Keeping a loach without more loaches is a nono. They need at least 3-4 something you cant do in a 3g tank. In fact its not enough space for a single one. Also fish are fish. Yes they can be stupid and depend on us their intelligent keepers to be safe. When a fish is small enough to be sucked by a filter it will be sucked. It doesnt know what a filter is right?

Further more you can tell him to search and ask more for those fish species he wants to keep but probably doesnt know how. Not in the pet store though. I wouldnt continue to bug him, i believe he is just reacting to what he perceives you teaching him by doing the exact opposite. Give him a few links to read about the species he is interested in. I would also buy him a book about fish and their care and send it to him as gift so as to let him study in his own pace and learn without feeling you floating above his head. Try not to enter into fights it will probably result into the opposite effect of what you have in mind.


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## Rosska (Jun 10, 2012)

Pilot00 said:


> Further more you can tell him to search and ask more for those fish species he wants to keep but probably doesnt know how. Not in the pet store though. I wouldnt continue to bug him, i believe he is just reacting to what he perceives you teaching him by doing the exact opposite. Give him a few links to read about the species he is interested in. I would also buy him a book about fish and their care and send it to him as gift so as to let him study in his own pace and learn without feeling you floating above his head. Try not to enter into fights it will probably result into the opposite effect of what you have in mind.


I know I can be quite preachy sometimes, so I'll try to give him some more space about it. I'm apparently quite good at unintentionally ruffling is feathers, haha. I think if I gave him links he would start getting defensive about it, but we often send each other things, so I shall see if I can find a good book on fish for him!

Thank you very much!


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## Pilot00 (Jul 24, 2012)

You can disguise your intentions, ETC: 'Hey (insert name)! Look what i found about loaches here! Apparently the little buggers like to burrow'! Or somesuch, he will think he will read something funny and while he does read something funny he will read the info. I know i never learn things unless they arouse my imagination or have fun.


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## Kenny G (Jun 9, 2012)

You are 100% right. Now showing your bf the error of his ways is a different story. I know you are both heated right now so take a step back. Next time you are in a fish store ask an employee in the fish department to explain tank sizes and suitable mates. I think the advice will be taken better from a neutral party rather then his gf.


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## Rosska (Jun 10, 2012)

Kenny G said:


> You are 100% right. Now showing your bf the error of his ways is a different story. I know you are both heated right now so take a step back. Next time you are in a fish store ask an employee in the fish department to explain tank sizes and suitable mates. I think the advice will be taken better from a neutral party rather then his gf.


I think it would be great for him to go to the store and ask about it, unfortunately his local shop doesn't seem the most trustworthy when it comes to advice, as they were the ones that said it was the perfect size for a kuhli in the first place. Shame he lives three hours away, we have some really great, knowledgable dealers near where I stay. >:


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

dump him


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## Rosska (Jun 10, 2012)

registereduser said:


> dump him


There are _definitely_ times where I feel like I could, haha. But I love him really. <:


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## thekinetic (May 22, 2012)

Well if the water parameters are fine then the tank will be fine for a while, but what parameters is he checking? Ammonia, low end ph, high end ph, nitrite, nitrate?

Generally it is 1" of fish per gallon, and a betta alone is 2.5" thus leaving only .5" for his 3 gallon. But then there's the matter of guppies being typically 1 fish per gallon. And if the fish can live together well there's is no real harm in going over a tiny bit as long as they got room and the parameters are not affected.

But then there's the khuli loach, which is a 4" fish when it matures and is waaay to big for a 3 gallon. While it may not be a problem now it will be in the future.

So I guess you're sort of both right.

But honostly you're at each others throat over fish?! This is why I don't like people, egos. And I'm not sure which sex has the bigger one. Now it seems to me one of you has a temper otherwise yall could talk it out civilly. So you could continue arguing and hope it comes a conclusion before it costs you the relationship or you could agree to disagree and say what will be will be.

But remember in the game of wills, there are no winners.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Rosska said:


> There are _definitely_ times where I feel like I could, haha. But I love him really. <:


good luck with that. :|


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## Rosska (Jun 10, 2012)

thekinetic said:


> Well if the water parameters are fine then the tank will be fine for a while, but what parameters is he checking? Ammonia, low end ph, high end ph, nitrite, nitrate?
> 
> Generally it is 1" of fish per gallon, and a betta alone is 2.5" thus leaving only .5" for his 3 gallon. But then there's the matter of guppies being typically 1 fish per gallon. And if the fish can live together well there's is no real harm in going over a tiny bit as long as they got room and the parameters are not affected.
> 
> ...


He checks ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH daily. And that's good to know. At least we can both be happy they're not suffering for now.

And being hot-headed is an entirely different thing from having a big ego. We both have vicous tempers, and that's one of the things I like about him, but neither of us are overly egotistical. However, we have taken some time out and we are now being a lot less childish and argumentative about things so we can try and work something out. At the moment I'm offering him a bigger tank for his fish, as I have a spare. We're just unsure how I'd get it to him, haha.

Thank you~



> good luck with that. :neutral:


I don't need luck, sweetie~
Breaking up with someone over such a little thing would be frivolous at best. :lol:


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## thekinetic (May 22, 2012)

Wow usually the two go hand in hand!

I was just worried as I've seen little arguments get so out of hand that two people who were otherwise happy break it off.

It's nice to hear you two are woking it out. ^_^


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hands down. You are right. That tank is in serious trouble. He is mistaking overstocking for overcrowding. The two are different things. Overstocking refers to the amount of waste the bio-bugs in the tank can handle. Overcrowding refers to the amount of swimming space for the fish. The tank may not be overcrowded, but it is overstocked. 

I've seen people use the "we've been doing this a long time" excuse/defense a lot of times. 9/10 they are have been "doing it" wrong. (lol read the Old Pro [bad] at the bottom of this article What kind of fishkeeper are you?) 

The research is out there if he wants to learn.
Loaches Online - brilliant loach site. I'm a bit of a loach fanatic, so I spend a lot of time here. 
Seriously Fish - wonderful articles on a lot of uncommon (and common) fish in the hobby
TFK: Tropical Fish Profiles - great articles on most of the common fish and plants in the hobby
Practical Fishkeeping - UK-based fishkeeping magazine. It's the best in the world. 
Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine - second best fishkeeping magazine, US-based
Aquarium Fish International - another fishkeeping website, US-based
Tell him to compare the advice of these sites to what he's getting at the pet store.


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## Pilot00 (Jul 24, 2012)

Off topic: Thats a good article my hats off to him. Certainly an Aquarist haribosus myself


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