# Plant Growing Help



## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

I currently have a heated and filtered 5g tank with one betta and two Amano shrimp. I've had live plants for about a year, and for a while they were all doing great, but they've been gradually dying off ever since I moved my tank to my new apartment. I have the light on a timer for about 8 hours a day, though I've been having some algae problems on and off. I do a 50% water change once a week, but still my plants have been slowly wilting or just not growing (besides my moss ball).

Any suggestions? What would you recommend for plants? Should I be putting in fertilizer, and if so, what kind (I've heard a lot about Seachem Flourish and Flourish Excel, but don't know the difference, and if it's what I should use).

First picture is a few weeks ago, second picture is from today.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Well i would recommend some type of good plant gravel; flourite, flouramax, ect... then top that with some regular black petco sand. For ferts, i just use flourish excel and potassium. Though at 1 time i was dosing excel, flourish, trace, and potassium, but all those r not needed. But those r the only 2 that u really need 2 get the plants 2 thrive. 
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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I would slightly disagree. If you have rooted plants, use root tabs; otherwise, your gravel is fine (although I prefer sand). I would dose Seachem Flourish Comprehensive three times a week and Excel at half-strength. Excel can harm inverts so half-strength is usually recommended on invert-specific forums. Or at least start out half-strength and gradually up until you reach recommended dosage.

If you get algae, dose the Excel at full strength until it is gone.


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## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

Can I get a brief description of what root tabs are? I've heard of them before but am not sure 100% on how to use them. And what exactly in contrast do Flourish and Excel do? Is one a fertilizer and one is....? Just trying to learn more. Thanks for your help!

I wouldn't mind doing sand at some point, but then don't you suck a bunch of it up during water changes?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

The potassium is also needed. I would say more than the comprehensive. Cuz if u have a potassium problem than ur plants will be terrible. But the comprehensive will help. If i could afford it i would get all of the flourishes. But the ones my tanks tend 2 need the most r the excel and potassium. But all tanks r different, u got 2 sort of experiment a little bit and see what ur regular water lacks and what ur plants need. The 3 i would recommend r excel, potassium, and iron. Flourite has A LOT of iron in it (that is y i dont use it) and root tabs (i think) also have it.
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## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

Is there a good brand of potassium to buy? How is it dosed, etc?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Excel is a carbon source; Flourish Comprehensive is a fertilizer which provides nutrients to plants whose roots are not buried in the substrate (Anubias, moss, floating plants). Root tabs are capsules with fertilizer which feed plants such as swords, crypts, etc., anything with roots that are planted. Some people use pieces of Jobe plant sticks instead of root tabs. 

With sand you hover over the substrate; not push the vacuum down into it. All the gunk stays on top of sand instead of sifting down through the substrate as it does with gravel.

Hope that helps. 

Afterthought: According to the Aquatic Gardner, Iron is extremely important so check out these packages:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12787

I dose Comprehensive, Iron, Trace Elements and Potassium.


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## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

That's really helpful, thank you so much!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

BatCakes said:


> Is there a good brand of potassium to buy? How is it dosed, etc?


Seachems flourish brand. The instructions r on the back of the bottle. U can also look up seachems flourish dosing calender, its on the website.
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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Excel is a carbon source; Flourish Comprehensive is a fertilizer which provides nutrients to plants whose roots are not buried in the substrate (Anubias, moss, floating plants). Root tabs are capsules with fertilizer which feed plants such as swords, crypts, etc., anything with roots that are planted. Some people use pieces of Jobe plant sticks instead of root tabs.
> 
> With sand you hover over the substrate; not push the vacuum down into it. All the gunk stays on top of sand instead of sifting down through the substrate as it does with gravel.
> 
> ...


 Also another thing sand does is it helps the plants get started. But once they settle, they will then want 2 grow. So a nice thick flourite(or other plant gravel) layer will help them get the nutrients. Cuz plants can absorb nutrients easier with gravel.
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## Tony2632 (Aug 30, 2013)

Flourish comprehensive is actually micro nutrient which contains little nitrogen and phosphate. Flourish does have just potassium nitrogen and phosphate bottles, which is your macro nutrients. But as seeing you have a low tech tank i would just use the flourish comprehensive, flourish potassium, root tabs for iron, and excel for carbon. You need to experiment with the tank to find that right balance.


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## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you! I probably won't be able to get them all at once, but it's really helpful to know what I need to get next. I'll start looking into ordering those right away. These will help keep the algae down as well?

Also, do I need to do tabs for iron? I also see Flourish has iron as a liquid.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Seachem's dose chart says to add Iron and Excel every day and Flourish Comprehensive twice week. Since I use Iron tabs and liquid I half-dose the liquid. That first kit from Drs. F&S is a good starter. I like F&S because I can order goodies for Russell, Edward and Boo as an excuse to get free shipping. ;-)

If you get more into planted aquariums, here's the Seachem dose chart:
http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantDoseChart.pdf

I do recommend half-dosing the Excel and gradually increasing over several weeks. But I'm conservative and wasn't happy with the full dose results.

I don't disagree with Tony in any way; it's as he said: All tanks are different because water and plants are different.


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## Tony2632 (Aug 30, 2013)

It's a debate on iron as a macro or micro nutrient in the water column. It does help, I does very little on the stuff, but your root tabs which is rich in iron should help your heavy foot feeders like amazon swords for example. A lot of things can cause algae, like having your lights on for 12 plus hours or in your case too many ferts. It's good to keep fast growing plants that can suck up excess nutrients like hornwort for example. But never get discourage if you get algae, it happens so what. All you have to do is find the problem and fix it. It's all about finding that right balance. Heck my first planted tank i got loads of hair, BBA, and even blue green algae, but i found the problem and fixed it. Now i only get green spot algae which is not a big problem and i really don't care, because it feeds my Otos lol.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Gotta feed those Otos!


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

BatCakes said:


> Thank you! I probably won't be able to get them all at once, but it's really helpful to know what I need to get next. I'll start looking into ordering those right away. These will help keep the algae down as well?
> 
> Also, do I need to do tabs for iron? I also see Flourish has iron as a liquid.


Yes excel will destroy any algae. I would recommend the root tabs over the liquid. Cuz most plants get most of their nutrients through their roots.
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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Tony2632 said:


> It's a debate on iron as a macro or micro nutrient in the water column. It does help, I does very little on the stuff, but your root tabs which is rich in iron should help your heavy foot feeders like amazon swords for example. A lot of things can cause algae, like having your lights on for 12 plus hours or in your case too many ferts. It's good to keep fast growing plants that can suck up excess nutrients like hornwort for example. But never get discourage if you get algae, it happens so what. All you have to do is find the problem and fix it. It's all about finding that right balance. Heck my first planted tank i got loads of hair, BBA, and even blue green algae, but i found the problem and fixed it. Now i only get green spot algae which is not a big problem and i really don't care, because it feeds my Otos lol.


I have that algae 2. I still havent learned how 2 destroy it. It is the only 1 i have, very little of though.
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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Sorry for the back to basics question but what types of plants do you have? What are your water parameters? Plants, like fish, have water parameters that they like (PH, KH, GH, Temp and nutrients).

I use Flourite (high CEC) with Root tabs for the root feeders, and I dose Fe, K and Trace Minerals (all from Seachem) for the water column feeders; however, I do that based on what I watched my plants do. Each tells a story of what they need. Here is a link to a site I have found very helpful in diagnosing what was happening with my plants.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/index.php

Hope that helps.


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## BatCakes (Mar 25, 2013)

Quick question. I was thinking about switching to sand since I'm thinking about getting cories, and although I'm interested in doing a fully NPT I'm not sure about the dirt yet. What is something I can get at most pet stores that is good for under a layer of cap sand? Or does something like that not exist at most Petco/Petsmart? 

I'd like to know a few options if that's possible, I'm assuming that would help my plants a lot too.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I would put flourite under some black sand. That is what I have.
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