# Hard/Soft Water Inquiry



## ZackyBear (Dec 1, 2011)

I've noticed a lot of users mentioning it and was curious as to...what hard/soft water is? Is it PH related?:-?


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## a123andpoof (Apr 10, 2010)

Not sure if this is completely correct but hard water is what would come out of a well/ ground, where soft water usually has salt in it. Usually how it is referred around our house. If it affects the ph I don't know as some days our water is hard and other days it is soft depending weather or not we put salt in or not.


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## angus (Apr 13, 2012)

I was always told it had something to do with the minerals or whatever in the water. Meaning hard water had more of certain minerals. I know, not the best information/description. There are different websites about it on google.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I believe OFL and KoiMaiden are pretty savvy on the whole hard/soft/pH thing.  I would suggest directing them to this thread to answer your questions.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Hard water is, I am pretty sure, OS having a higher mineral concentration. That is why you would get hard water stains. My water is on the soft side but I still have a high pH, it all depends where it is from and what they add to the water. Usually a high pH means harder water vice versa, but it all depends what your water company adds.

I found my parameters on my water company's website, they give you the numbers so you would have to find a site that tells you if you have soft or hard water based on those parameters.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

It's interesting that this keeps coming up when it has little to do with betta fish; this is a rather advanced fishkeeping topic. Hard water is water with a high mineral content (like bottled spring water). Soft water has a very low mineral content (like reverse osmosis [RO] water). There are two components to water "hardness" GH and KH. KH directly impacts pH (which is why you can't fiddle with pH if you don't know your water hardness) but does little to fish. GH doesn't affect pH but has a large impact on the fish. Because the fish and the water are so closely intertwined, over millions of years individual species have evolved to bring their blood pH and mineral content in the body very close to what is in the water. This is so they don't have to work very hard to keep minerals out or in. But this also means when we keep them in water parameters different from what their body is used to, they have to work harder to keep their internal balance and keep their organs working correctly. Kidneys are the first that come to mind because they play a key role in osmoregulation; one of their jobs is to filter out any extra minerals in the blood. And when a fish is evolved to live in low mineral content water, existing in high mineral content water is going to put a lot more minerals in the body via diffusion over the gills than the kidneys are used to handling. This is one of the reasons we don't recommend soft water fish in hard water and vice versa. In soft water, hard water fish like many African cichlids and goldfish (even though they have been domesticated for around 1000 years) will be starved for minerals in the body. 

But what is important for everyone here to know is that betta like stable conditions. It doesn't matter so much what your tap water pH or hardness is, it matters that those parameters stay stable in your fish's tank. Regular water changes are the best way to do this.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You should make a sticky on that, KoiMaiden.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Still don't get why bettas for some reason dont care what pH or hardness they are in but other fish do...


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## ringo3632 (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm trying to look this up and such right now, but when using the tap water at my gf's apartment, our betta practically died, at first we thought the cats were bothering it so we simply moved it to a different room ect. but then he got much worse. so i took him to my house, different water, tank the works. he made a full recovery and doing fine. So, i brought him back to the gf's apartment, in the same place, same tank, just using water we bought at walmart. so i'm convinced it was something in the tap water here. is there anything particular that i should look out for on the websites?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

kfryman said:


> Still don't get why bettas for some reason dont care what pH or hardness they are in but other fish do...


Actually they do care to a degree. But like some of the tetra (glowlight tetra come to mind) they have a very wide range of tolerances. SeriouslyFish states it as between 5dGH and 25dGH, and Fishbase.org puts their hardness range between 5dGH and 19dGH. What this means is that you either need very soft water or very hard water to cause problems for betta. I have actually seen people having trouble with betta in very hard (basically liquid rock) water.

EDIT: Ringo, I think you will have better luck and get more responses if you start your own thread and give some more information such as tank size, temperature, water additives, ect. Oh and welcome to the forum!


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh so they can just adapt easier than other fish, got it. Wonder why that is, like why only some fish but not others? I think I need a biologist lol.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I have hard water and a neutral pH. Never tested KH before and no do I feel the need to. Bettas are very tolerant of water parameters.


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## ZackyBear (Dec 1, 2011)

Hmm...I'll have to keep this in mind. I've bee browsing around the forums for a while ever since I decided I wanted another beta. I found some really beautiful ones at the Petco across the street~

But right now I'm just doing research and saving money for the setup~


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Just to add to what has been stated already, KH stands for carbonate hardness and measures the amount of carbonate and bicarbonate anions in the water. GH stands for general hardness and measures the amount of dissolved minerals (most prominently Ca 2+ and Mg 2+) in the water. pH measures the hydrogen ion concentration, with acidic water (low pH) having high concentrations and alkaline (high pH) water having low concentrations.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

kfryman said:


> Oh so they can just adapt easier than other fish, got it. Wonder why that is, like why only some fish but not others? I think I need a biologist lol.


I can't say for sure, but what makes sense to me is that they probably have very efficient ion pumps in their gills to control the ion concentration in their bloodstream, along with kidneys that can effectively dilute or concentrate urine to either conserve or rid the body of excess ions/water.

Just as a side note, anadromous fish such as salmon are pretty cool in that the ion pumps in their gills are reversible, allowing them to spend time in fresh and salt water. They can take in ions in freshwater with low ion concentrations and expel ions when in highly concentrated saltwater. The kidneys work in sync with this process. Kinda neat ;-).


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## Katy (Apr 10, 2012)

Along this line, how important than is pH to a betta? My tap water is on the lower end, 6.7ish, and I've added baking soda occasionally to adjust it but not consistently, as I don't like to use a lot of additives. I cannot tell if my bettas cared one way or the other, as long as the change was not abrupt.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Katy said:


> Along this line, how important than is pH to a betta? My tap water is on the lower end, 6.7ish, and I've added baking soda occasionally to adjust it but not consistently, as I don't like to use a lot of additives. I cannot tell if my bettas cared one way or the other, as long as the change was not abrupt.


Just don't do it, your betta may stress because of the random pH changes. I would say it is not needed at all, also you are in the okay pH so don't mess with it.


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## Katy (Apr 10, 2012)

Ok thanks!


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## Perry the platypus (Aug 20, 2012)

Do you use hard or soft water in your betta tank?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Perry the platypus said:


> Do you use hard or soft water in your betta tank?


Use tap water. The general consensus is that betta are highly adaptable and will tolerate most types of water.


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