# Any of these petstore fish worth breeding?



## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

I joined here as a novice breeder, and still am, but I am learning a lot reading over the different posts. Still, I thought it would be better to ask those of you with some experience if any of these boys are worth breeding. At this time I am not looking to show any bettas myself, but I am looking at selling them, so I want to make sure I have good, quality bettas.

Pictured here is Mani (DT), Thor (HM), and Blanca (excuse the name, I bought this one as a female veiltail, but am thinking they got it ALL wrong and it's another boy that needed renamed)


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

I think the last is a EE girl!


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Could you get a clearer pic of the cello black and yellow guy? He looks the best of the bunch. But with pet store fish you never know what you will get either.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

The last I would say is an EE Plakat


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Could you get perfect side view pictures of them flaring. Then we could see their flaws and advantages. The pictures doesn't have to be too "close up".

The first picture is a clear side view. Unfortunately he's not flaring so we cant see his fins. The last betta looks like a male EE PK . . . unless EE has extra large dorsal.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm trying to get better pictures, but no one wants to flare for me. Will post them as soon as I can.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Was finally able to set up a divided 10 gallon tank today. Before I put plants and everything in I used it to take better pics of my fish. Here's the two boys I wondered if were breedable & Blanca. I've decided Blanca is most likely a girl. When I put her in the divided tank with Mani she did not react at all. Nose to nose at the divider and she turned and swam away while Mani flared up at her. The same happen with 2 other of my males. They flared, she looked at them, then swam off. Put in a sorority she flares at and attacks the other females, but that is after building her own bubble nest.

Anyway, here's the fish. 1: Mani, male DT 2: Thor, male HM 3:Blanca, female(I think) EE. The question is are any of them breedable or should I just keep them as well loved pets?


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

The DT is pretty short bodied, I wouldn't breed him, the short bodies can lead to spinal deformities and such in the fry. 

I like your halfmoon, his anal fin is long, but thats a common problem in halfmoons. I also like your EE, I think he's the nicest of the bunch! Do you have females in mind to breed with these boys?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

You can try the hm male and EE if female. Hm has little bit of extensive branching but not too bad. Seems common in many HMs these days


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

:-( That's depressing on Mani, the DT. I was hoping he would be ok to breed because I think he is beautiful, but definitely glad to know it's better just to keep and admire him.

No, I don't have any mates picked out for these bettas. I'm just starting and after reading all the various info here figured my first step in breeding was to see if any of the many bettas I already had was breedable, or if I need to buy a breeding pair.

Blanca, the EE, is still a bit of question. I bought her as a female VT. Well she is obviously NOT a VT. When put in a sorority she built a bubble nest that took up a quarter a 10 gallon tank, than stood guard and attacked any of the other females that came close. Put in a divided tank with a male she will go nose to nose with them and then turn and swim away with no flaring (I tried this with 3 males, she reacted the same each time while each boy flared very nicely). That leads me to believe she is a female. When I am all set up for a spawn maybe I will see what she does with Thor (the HM).

As for Thor, the HM, I need to find him a mate. Any suggestion on what to look for? I was thinking I might try to find a female mustard gas HM. What else might produce nice offspring with his coloring? Melano females are sterile, aren't they?


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## Mahsfish (Feb 21, 2013)

Black females are sterile, but females carryinging the melano gene are not.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Only *melano* females are infertile... A protein in their eggs prevents them from developing properly.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Ok, I think I have figured Blanca out (the last betta pictured) after looking at many pics of other EE's, both male & female I do believe I have a HMPKEE female! I know the color match isn't the best, but does anyone think I should not breed the HM pictured here with the EE? Since I am still learning, if you think they would not make a good pairing, can you please tell me why (such as MoonShadow explaining to me that my DT's body is to short & can lead to problems.)

If I do pair these two somewhere down the line I would than need to breed a daughter with the HM father to get other HMs and a son to the EE mother to get other EEs, correct?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Personally I wouldn't pair the HM with the EE - if you have other options. The HM has too little a caudal and big dorsal and anal fins. Pairing him to a PK will not improve that. This paring is OK if you intend to go the PK route. 

The DT also has small caudal. But at least you'd have more options - PK, EEPK, DTPK, EEDTPK. That being said, I'd pair her to the DT . . . . Not sure about short body carrying deformities. TBH, I prefer shorter bodies - short wide bodies.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

I keep looking at that EE, the anal is so long for a female PK, they usually have short and straight anals. Does s/he have an egg spot ( A small white dot on the belly between the ventral fins)? 

I would breed the HM to a well proportioned female, one with a short anal, even breeding him to a nice HMPK female would work, you don't want the offspring to have such a long anal. The ideal halfmoon is even all the way around you can drawn a circle around him and all of his fins will fit in it.

Here are 2 nice HM females that don't have super long anals and pointed anals that you see in a lot of HM females
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1365397167

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1365513725


And 2 nice HMPK females
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1365589801

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1365590404


And just for comparison here is a EEHMPK female, look how short and straight her anal is.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1365719901


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Ok, good thing I have time to do the research before spawing and find out about the short bodies and spinal deformities. None of these pictured have current planned mates. They were the only bettas I had other than VT's and a baby CT, so I figured my first step would be to ask experienced breeders if any of these had potential. If any do then I need to find them partners. I worried about pairing the DT with the EE because of to much finage (I don't know if that is a proper term, I'm still learning all of those. Going to find out what the caudal is when I'm done here.) Knowing some DT's can have problems because their tails can be to heavy and EE's I've heard can have problems because of their large pectoral (I think I've heard the side fins called that) fins I was hesitant to mix those two. But anyway, Indjo, in your opinion the EE is ok to breed, the DT is iffy, and you would not breed the HM. Correct?


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

MoonShadow said:


> I keep looking at that EE, the anal is so long for a female PK, they usually have short and straight anals. Does s/he have an egg spot ( A small white dot on the belly between the ventral fins)?
> 
> I would breed the HM to a well proportioned female, one with a short anal, even breeding him to a nice HMPK female would work, you don't want the offspring to have such a long anal. The ideal halfmoon is even all the way around you can drawn a circle around him and all of his fins will fit in it.
> 
> ...


That EE has a long story & her own thread here
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=146242

I keep going back & forth on her and am ready to give up figuring it out, but right now I am leaning towards it being a male HMPKEE. Which means I can pair none pictured here & need to find them all ladies if they are breedable.


I keep forgetting to mention MoonShadow, that I have liked your page on FB as well, once I have everything smoothed out and taken care of my babies here I plan on trying to take in one of your rescues. I admire what you are doing with them.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

The EE died last night, so won't be being breed obviously. Sorry, I'm more than a little bummed loosing him. I also lost a CT baby yesterday, so bad day. 

My fiance felt bad when the baby CT died, it was actually my 3 yr old son fish, and went out and bought me a new male. He did awesome in picking the guy out (I think he may have caught the betta bug now) When I got up this morning he let me know that he'd been playing with our new guy and got him to flare for a pic for me. He's a DT, although his caudal doesn't quite show that in the pic. Someone else told me he'd be called a Halfsun also, so a HSDT. Anyway. same question as the others, can I breed him? I'm thinking he's just barely exceptable. Is his branching a little to much?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I say go for it - he might not be a perfect HM and could have better topline but he has fairly balanced fins. I love his dorsal, it's front rays are long. I'd say pair him to a balanced HM female, preferably a 8 ray.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you Indjo! Now to find him the right lady. If I get stuck trying to figure out the rays do you mind if I message you? I know I've seen info on how to count the rays on here and a couple other places I have bookmarked, but I'm still unsure how to tell all that.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

I adore him! Nice long body for a DT, pretty even fins, no excessive ray branching. Find a lady with a good 180 degree spread to her tail and you'll get some nice babies. Remember deformities are more likely to arise if you breed DT x DT so breed him to a nice HM girl and you will get a mix of HM and DT in the spawn.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

I dont know how much you are looking to pay for a female but I found 2 really nice prospects on Aquabid from USA sellers.









http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1365748492









http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1365559203


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

justmel said:


> Thank you Indjo! Now to find him the right lady. If I get stuck trying to figure out the rays do you mind if I message you? I know I've seen info on how to count the rays on here and a couple other places I have bookmarked, but I'm still unsure how to tell all that.


We're all here to help in anyway we can. You can PM me any time, specially on specific questions or minor details. But I'd rather you ask general ones in the open forum so everyone can learn from it too.

Finding a perfect girl might be difficult since only less than perfect are usually sold while the "perfect" ones are kept for the breeder's needs. So you would have to work yourself for that.


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## justmel (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you so much MoonShadow! You guys really go above and beyond when helping out a newbe like me. I can't say how much I (and my happier fish) appreciate it all. I may not be able to get either of these two ladies, but they are both wonderful. And it's a lot of help to me in trying to figure out what would be good for him. I think I appreciate that the most. You are are helpful, and helpful in a way that makes the learning easier.


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## MoonShadow (Feb 29, 2012)

justmel said:


> Thank you so much MoonShadow! You guys really go above and beyond when helping out a newbe like me. I can't say how much I (and my happier fish) appreciate it all. I may not be able to get either of these two ladies, but they are both wonderful. And it's a lot of help to me in trying to figure out what would be good for him. I think I appreciate that the most. You are are helpful, and helpful in a way that makes the learning easier.


Happy to be helpful! Anymore questions? Don't hesitate to ask!!


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