# Melano HM x Marble EE



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Male by Adithira (Betta138), Female by Therakanbetta.

I've been having trouble with my water (still), so it's been a while since I had a spawn live. Didn't seem like much point in keeping a log. These guys are doing great, though.

Water formula: 25% tap to 75% RO
Temp: ~80F
Live plants, wild type shrimp, and snails galore.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

This is what the tank looks like right now. I'm still adding water, and have not yet begun water changes.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

And here we have an almost month old fry...

There's about 20, which is a tiny spawn for me. That's all right, though. There might not be very many of them, but they are living, and that's an improvement.

The 25% tap is to ensure appropriate minerals are in the water. Seachem Replenish didn't seem to be doing the job.


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

You have lovely babies there! Can I ask what floating plant you use? It seems like they cover the entire surface. Does it affect the fishes when they go up for air at all? Sorry for the unrelated questions. Best of luck with your spawn! x


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

That's duckweed. They seem to be able to breathe just fine, but it's about time to thin it out some, yes. The plants on the inside are a random mix of things, I think I have mostly java moss, but there seems to be an errant mix of anacharis down there, and probably some pellia moss mixed in.
\


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## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

Duckweed? Whoa some huge duckweed you have there. Good luck again


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It's zoomed way in, haha. That fry is about 1/6th of an inch long. ^_^


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

I liked having duckweed in my bowls, but it was a pain when I got it mailed all the dead plants would sink to the bottom and for two weeks I was siphoning them off the tank floors. Do you notice this less frequently with yours, since I'm sure they're long-time established? It was also a pain to clean because they would stick to my hand, the tubes, net, etc.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It's a pain because it sticks to everything. If it establishes (and it seems to be fairly random whether it does or not), dead plants on the bottom don't seem to be much of a problem anymore. I like to set up a breeding tank a week or two ahead of time with duckweed and some plants, leave the lights on, and let the sponge filter run. Spare plants are kept in a jar on the windowsill in the sunlight and then floated and released into the tank after the parents are removed, water and all. This all establishes a healthy infusoria population. I don't rely on infusoria, but like to know it's there.

Duckweed is just plain too valuable to do without in my opinion. Its fast growth draws toxins out of the water, which is huge when the fry are very small and water changes are dangerous.


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

hrutan said:


> It's a pain because it sticks to everything. If it establishes (and it seems to be fairly random whether it does or not), dead plants on the bottom don't seem to be much of a problem anymore. I like to set up a breeding tank a week or two ahead of time with duckweed and some plants, leave the lights on, and let the sponge filter run. Spare plants are kept in a jar on the windowsill in the sunlight and then floated and released into the tank after the parents are removed, water and all. This all establishes a healthy infusoria population. I don't rely on infusoria, but like to know it's there.
> 
> Duckweed is just plain too valuable to do without in my opinion. Its fast growth draws toxins out of the water, which is huge when the fry are very small and water changes are dangerous.


Thanks! I may give it a try again sometime in the future. I am working on establishing larger dwarf lettuce and salvinia populations.


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

Can you see EE "ears" early-on in fry or do they show up when they are a little bigger?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Beautiful pair! Your male and mine could even be brothers since they both came from Adithira :-D 
Im thinking of doing an ee x non ee spawn so am real keen to see what these guys give you


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

There won't be any EEs from this batch. It's going to take a sibling cross to bring them back out. From what I understand, they develop at the same rate as the other fins, so should be visible fairly early on.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Ooooh, doing experimental spawns to learn about genetics is fun.

One of the little fry looks like he has a Nemo fin! I've gotten a video, just waiting for a chance to upload it. Hopefully you guys will be able to see 

You'll have to forgive the dirty bottom. I'm trying a different method than I have the last few times ... instead of keeping the tank pristine, I'm just worrying about the water quality.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Here you go.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I was going to use duckweed in my spawning tank. My prints have a backyard man made pond, it's small only about 150 gallons and there has been no fish in it for years but frog always grow up in it. I grab a handful of duckweed and am keeping it in a jar but I'm worried to add it to any of my tanks/ breeding tank because of possible parasites.. Should I rise it off? Or just not use it at all?


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I'd rinse it and isolate it for a couple of weeks, personally. Not particularly concerned about parasites, but you can end up with predators by accident. Hydra, or mosquito larvae (which are predatory - great betta food, but if the bettas are newly hatched then the bettas are great mosquito food).


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Thank you


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

I think you might mean dragonfly, damselfly, and/or stonefly nypmhs instead of mozzie larvae? Mozzies are filter feeders and will just eat small particles, completely harmless to pretty much everything

Ps I love the little nemo fry


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I might. I think it also may depend on the species of mosquito? Because I was warned to keep them out of my daphnia culture lest they kill it.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm in NJ so it's been pretty cold here, I'm hoping a lot of the bugs and stuff have died


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Updated videos.

Got a nice close up shot of this little guy...
http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums...ploads/VID_20160114_154631025_zpswtjnsiqm.mp4

And here you can see several at once!
http://vid33.photobucket.com/albums/d51/RukaDemaris/TRIM_20160114_154920_zpsxphwbqhh.mp4


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Thats a very healthy and active fish..!! Must eat alot lol


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

They are little piggies!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Nothing more fulfilling other than watching those little piggies eat until they have round belly and then floating hopelessly near water surface enjoying themself , i often spent alot of time watching them eat , i swear this has therapeutic effect to me lol.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Me, too. I sit and stare at them for quite some time at feeding time.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Seeing stripes! Stripes one way. Stripes the other way! lol. Silly checkerboard fish.

Also, seeing some looooooooong dorsals. I think I have DT geno in this spawn. Which would make them DT geno, EE geno...


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

nice surprise for the DT geno, this mean the fry will have broader dorsal? never breed DT even once


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The DT geno means some of the fry will have a broad dorsal, yes. There is also the possibility of DT from a sibling cross. I don't think I actually _want _that, since form flaws are common in both EEs and DTs, meaning the likelihood of EEDTs being culls is very high.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I jarred the seven largest fry this morning. They are still young, but a comfortable size for their age. The largest fry has eaten himself into a case of SBD, so I figured it was time to more closely monitor their food intake.

After I pulled the big ones out, a whole bunch of little kids came out of the woodwork. Little babies! Hopefully they will get enough food now that the bullies are removed.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Growth spurt from the little babies. Hoping to get pictures tomorrow - it's been busy at home and I haven't gotten a chance.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Here are a few that are still in the grow out.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

happy babies there!!! their body shape looks promising,do i see butterfly pattern there? I wish i can put plants into my grow tank, but i spawn indoor ,very little sunlight come in, so its almost impossible for water plants to grow. will make one soon with my used aquascape tank when i have time


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I have to use artificial lights for my plants, since I also spawn indoors.

I think the butterfly pattern will remain small, but perhaps we will be surprised. Most of them are showing it. Neither parent showed butterfly patterns, but the origins of the female probably had them, since EE is usually from Salamander colors. It is exciting to find out what will happen through their growth.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

recently just found that adequate light at fry tank give you about 20% boost growth rate compare to the one that have only dim light , i experienced this my self, i have 2 same spawn on going , one is on upper shelf ,one is below shelf, the upper shelf one which got light exposure has fry grow faster while the lower one has slower growth


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Really? That is interesting. I wonder if they use light the same way we do - to build bone growth.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Here's an update on the jarred fry.

I have high, high hopes for that masked blue. He has lovely symmetry, a fine dorsal, and the edges of his caudal are straightening. I would be surprised if he doesn't make full HM. Wait, blue? Where'd the red go...? :lol: Probably red loss in this spawn.

Oh look, marble! That guy's going cello at a breakneck pace ... and look at that DORSAL.

And one guy still has visible red under his blue. I find it interesting that he's the only one that also appears to have some black on him. Optical illusion, or what? It'll be interesting to see how he grows.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The marble fella is completely cellophane now. He just has this very faint sheen of iridescence. I'd show photos ... but have you ever tried to take a picture of a cellophane fish? Augh!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

hrutan said:


> The marble fella is completely cellophane now. He just has this very faint sheen of iridescence. I'd show photos ... but have you ever tried to take a picture of a cellophane fish? Augh!


i have 2 cellophane hmpk male, taking them pics is frustate me lol


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Got one!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Remember that dark blue from above? This is probably the last picture I will post of him online until after I show him. A full 180 already!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

that cello male looks to have good fins as well, and very nice blue HM, love his smooth top line and smooth edge dorsal!


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Sadly, the cello male does not look like he is going to be more than a super delta. He will make a good pet for someone, at least.


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