# Don't shoot me please! Rescuing Bettas?



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

But I need to ask a question that's been KILLING me since I joined.

Why do people say they are rescuing Bettas from pet stores?

I work in rescue for small animals, pet rats to be exact. Pet rats get just as little care as Bettas, and most times their fate is to be fed to another animal in a very scary and stressful situation. In the pet rat world, we boycott pet stores. We do not go in and buy every rat we see, to save them from being fed to animals or over being over bred or being shoved in a hamster cage for the rest of their lives. We do not buy our cages, food, bedding, toys, hammocks from pet stores. We set up rescues for people to adopt from, we take in rats that need homes from local sites like Craigslist (USA) or Kijiji (Canada). By buying them from the pet stores, we are telling the stores it's ok to stock them, because they will be bought. By emptying the selves of rats, we are giving them space to get more in to sell. Sure it's crappy for the rats left there, but it's slowing the process down. For every rat that is bought from a pet store, another replaces it.

It's the same with Bettas  Even though they are horribly taken care of, in tiny cups of dirty water and barely holding onto life... by buying that Betta you are saving him/her... but you are also opening that spot for another Betta to be tortured. It's a cycle, supply and demand. The more we buy, the more they bring them in.

What I want to know is why do people call this a rescue? In the rescue world, we call this paying the stores for doing a horrible job. Nothing will ever change as long as they profit from their ill care of animals.

I dunno, just wanted to ask is all. I would much rather support non animal/fish stores, fish only stores or buy online. I buy the majority of my stuff online or from WalMart. Sure, I just bought Ben from my pet store but I didn't rescue him. I also bought everything he needed from WalMart so the pet store wouldn't proffit. They made $5 off me, not $100. 

Please, don't shoot me!! But if we sit back and look at it, really we're just supporting this treatment right? Why not support a local breeder who works hard to take care of these babies? Why not buy everything at a store that doesn't sell fish in bad tanks/cups? Maybe they will get the point then?

*shrugs*


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

alot of the time, they contact people selling or giving away bettas on Kijiji and craigslist, or talk to pet store managers about giving them the bettas for either free, or discounted prices. that's what i've always been told. x:


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I understand your frustration, and maybe rescue is the wrong word to use...true its a supply and demand.....you can't save them all....but it matters to that one fish you took home.......

For some people the local pet shops like the big box stores, walmart are the only place they have to get a Betta and/or supplies...not everyone can buy from a breeder or online........


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

See, our WalMart doesn't sell fish. Hasn't since we became super walmarts 6 years ago. I never thought of that. 

I dunno, I just see stores selling off their betta and they can't wait to get more in... kinda defeats the purpose.


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

It's a pet peeve of mine, too-- it's not a rescue when you buy a fish from a store. It's a rescue if you get a fish for free cause it's so bad they'll give it to you-- but even at a discounted price it's a purchase still. You didn't get a scratched up table for free, you got it for a discount. It's the same for fish. None of my fish are rescues, even though they'll all from pet stores. They're just... purchases. I buy at Petsmart and Petco because those are the places I can buy. I'm supporting them when I buy, and I know this. But honestly I don't want to buy offline and have things shipped to me-- especially not with how mail's handled in my area. And I'm cheap. I love bettas, but I don't want to pay an extra $45 for one fish to get to me in time.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Every Betta is deserving of a clean healthy spacious home, don't get me wrong. They didn't choose to be pet store or breeder bettas. Just the word rescue urks me I guess? You can take an animal from a bad situation but as long as you pay, it's not a rescue. It's giving up hard earned money to ensure the safety and health of a pet yes. But if you talked the manager into paying nothing and ran for the hills with your new pet, that's a rescue. 

Don't even get me going on those who say they adopt pets from breeders....

I guess if you have no other option, then that's that right?? But those who do have options, those who do buy online but still buy at pet stores? Eeeeee. I know I bought mine, and I'll say that. But I don't plan on buying another in store and if I do, I do not buy the materials I need for the Betta. You should have seen the managers FACE when I told Ben "You're mine now Buddy, lets go to WalMart and get you a new home!" hahaha


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## BlueEyedBettaBoy (Jun 17, 2011)

i agree with you completely pitluvs.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i know BBR got all theirs for free, or from people who were gonna flush them. i often call Remy a rescue, but he wasn't. x: it's just easier to call him such. i don't know what to call him otherwise. >.>;


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## MikiMaki (Jun 23, 2011)

I think when people say rescue, they mean they feel as if they are rescuing the animal from dying. (That is why I used it atleast, and mind you only one 1 of my 4) I have seen some mammalian animal rescues pay for an animal if that is what they feel they needed to do to save that animals life. We need to lobby for stronger laws, better enforcement and education, for all animals. It comes down to money in the end, and these stores won't stop selling sick and dying bettas. Trust me, my state just repealed laws we voted on to have stricter and more enforced laws on puppy mills to stop a few disgusting mill owners from complaining.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I know a lot of rescues that would never pay a company for an animal, but they would pay an owner for an animal if it were to save it's life. I know if someone had a Betta in a tank that was getting horrible treatment and was selling for $40, I'd offer a free home and if that wouldn't work, I'd offer $20 just to get it out of there. But that's not profiting a business, that's just paying someone for the tank.

Our pet store has stopped selling puppies


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

while I understand your point, at the same time, leaving them there to die is just going to result in them sticking a new one up on the shelf same as buying them would. the stores probably don't make enough profit on bettas for a few dead ones to even matter to them
and yeah, like MikiMaki said, I think most people mean they're rescuing them from a slow painful death


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## MikiMaki (Jun 23, 2011)

I meant more of rescues offering money to byb's for dogs that are in deplorable conditions. One rescue brought in this maltese b*tch that was only 2 and had 3 litters already, she was in such dystocia (trouble giving birth) to these poorly bred over grown pups that the owner (and I use the term loosely) gave her a c-section himself...and...well...not to be too graphic, they paid to get the momma dog from him and the puppies just to save their lives. 

But I truly do understand your point as well, by paying for them we're encouraging them, but there would need to be such a massive boycott to make a difference that it's just not feasible. And I have seen some great big box stores with wonderful healthy looking bettas, so it's workers not policy.


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## hissien (Jul 7, 2011)

I didn't rescue taiyou ka but I may (or may not) have saved his life but I payed money for him he was a purchase but unlike your "terruble petsmarts" mine isn't bad they change the water every day and have improved their quality a lot. Don't blame the store blame us the consumers we buy fish from their stores and continue to because we have no other way. Should that mean we can't keep fish? No we have every right to buy from those stores but honestly the only true way to rescue a betta is to get a dying betta and heal it not order a show betta online. There is no right or wrong way to buy a pet what matters mose is how much you care.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

We don't have petsmart here, thanks.

Anyways, my point is... it's not rescuing if you pay money for a fish from a store. Paying an adoption fee from a rescue is rescuing. 

I'm not so much saying people shouldn't buy from pet stores, I'm just saying if there is a better way, then why not use that? My main peeve is the rescue term being used so loosely lol

MikiMaki, was that a rescue giving money to save a dogs life, or an individual? Many rescues will pay minimal money to get a dog out of a bad situation, or whatever pet it may be. But rescues will not pay full price. At least any ethical one will not.


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## hissien (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry I didn't mean to rant I kind of just felt inspired by your passion about the care of bettas


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## Adabell (Jul 9, 2011)

Purchasing the bettas from the pet store and leaving them there both have the same negative side. Either way the fish that was on the shelf before will be replaced by another. I figure that it's only fair to give at least one of those suffering fish a chance to have a better life. Sure, they might stop selling them if they see that nobody will purchase them anymore, but there will always be people who purchase these bettas even if they aren't meaning to "rescue" them.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

I have not access to onine betta sellers and breeders. I rely on my lfs and my petco for all my fish things. sure ot would be nice to end the cycle, but its juat the way things are. you saved one from the cup, now make them as happy as you can! thats all that really matters isnt it? its the same with any other animal.


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> You should have seen the managers FACE when I told Ben "You're mine now Buddy, lets go to WalMart and get you a new home!" hahaha


that made me laugh so hard! xDDD


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## MikiMaki (Jun 23, 2011)

Well Pitluvs I do believe the guy was just gonna let the maltese die and they said no we'll take her but then he said he'd only sell her to them so they ended up paying, now how much, I'm not sure, they took the puppies too so he probably asked a bit. 

I get why you don't like the word being tossed around like that especially volunteering for rescues and such.


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## YoshesMom (Mar 15, 2011)

I run a betta rescue and I take in unwanted or mistreated betta some I buy but those are my personnal betta and arent offered up for adoption the ones I rescue like Rainbow the guy called me and said come get him or im flushing him i consider that a rescue and a few of mine ive pulled from tanks where they were being EATEN by barbs i consider those rescues


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

Well some people "rescue" bettas from walmart because they see some stupid horribly raised kid shaking their container when the poor thing is already dying from ammonia burns and other diseases from the nasty water- so they take it home, give it a nice clean spacious home with real food, and far away from pesty kids yelling " mommy I want this!!! ". I work at walmart, and I know what really goes on at other walmarts- nasty tap water, being feed ONCE a week- flakes, having water changed ONCE a month in a tiny container. Its animal abuse the same all around whether its a walmart betta or a a dog that got the crap beat out of it. I volunteered at ASPCA and here in TX we had a lot of animal rescues from Katrina and abusive owners. Its really the same if you think about it- a defenseless animal trying to survive but cant do much. So imagine being a walmart fish-seriously. Just imagine maybe 10 mins or so. That walmart betta is no different than that katrina dog- both needed help and were dying, needing love. So yes, it is technically resucing.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

BTW also you said above that its not rescuing if you have to pay for the animal. Our dog Jasper was a Katrina rescue dog who was also severly abused and we paid $100 to adoþt him. He was malnurished, had bad teeth, and was horrible afraid of people because he was almost literally beaten to death until animal rescue came and got him. We gave him a wonderful home with a big back yard, science diet, all the chew toys he can handle, and a loving family. So according to you, we didnt rescue him because we paid for him?


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

Larsa - Would you agree there's a difference between rescuing a dog from a shelter, and buying a puppy that was bred in a puppy mill to 'save' it? Both are animals that need help-- but I bet you would never support the puppy mill by buying the dog.

Buying a betta in a store is like buying a dog in a store. It's sending the message that breeding them for profit and putting them in those conditions is good and okay. You seem really defensive about this. No one said you didn't rescue your dog. but you certainly didn't buy your dog form a puppy mill to save it, did you?


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

I-I don't know what to say to this. I retyped it four times and all I can say is:

It's a life. We 'rescue' them because is it right to let them die either? I don't think so...They don't deserve it just because some idiot multi-million dollar corporation doesn't bother to grow a brain. It's not their fault their breeder had 'em shipped off to these stores.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

It doesnt matter to me if I had to pay to save it or get it for free. If life is being abused and someone is trying their hardest to help it, I personally consider it rescued whether you buy it from an over-crowded mill or adopt a wounded creature the streets. Life who was purposly made for financial gain in a mill is still abuse. Its very sick minded and its not the animals fault its in that situation because of some greedy human. Some mill animals are treated worse than strays. What matters is you are trying to give an animal a better life where it can be safe and loved, far from harm.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Larsa said:


> It doesnt matter to me if I had to pay to save it or get it for free. If life is being abused and someone is trying their hardest to help it, I personally consider it rescued whether you buy it from an over-crowded mill or adopt a wounded creature the streets. Life who was purposly made for financial gain in a mill is still abuse. Its very sick minded and its not the animals fault its in that situation because of some greedy human. Some mill animals are treated worse than strays. What matters is you are trying to give an animal a better life where it can be safe and loved, far from harm.


 THANK YOU! +9001! My view exactly. Either way your giving an animal comfort, love and a home to enjoy.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

lol thanks  I dont tolerate animal abuse, especialy bettas- my fav animals. My walmart doesnt even sell bettas because they know what those poor water babies go through... :' (


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Larsa said:


> lol thanks  I dont tolerate animal abuse, especialy bettas- my fav animals. My walmart doesnt even sell bettas because they know what those poor water babies go through... :' (


 Welcome. Me either which is why I'm so glad Akira was healthy when I brought him home and has just continued to be a joy. I only feel human in the morning after I've seen my boys.


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## hissien (Jul 7, 2011)

Man you really set off a bomb with this thread....


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

It's a touchy subject. lol. On the one hand, you have a fish who needs help. On the other hand, you have the choice of supporting the trade that causes them to be in that condition or not.

idk, I make a distinction between saving and animal and the word 'rescue'. To me, when you buy a betta from a store, or do something like buy a dog from a backyard breeder, you can 'save' it, but you're not part of rescuing it. idk for me that word, when talking about animals, kind of refers to specifically when you;

Pay no money to a person who puts the animal into that condition. This is not the same as paying an adoption fee in a shelter or something, which just helps cover the cost of the animal's stay. You do not want to be supporting the people in any way shape or form who do this.

So yeah I know some people in this thread aren't gonna like me for it. But there are pitty purchases, which saves the life of an animal. But there are also rescues that do it and try to move animals without giving any support to the cause of them being where they are. You don't stop puppymills by buying up all the dogs from the breeders-- you stop them by refusing to buy those dogs.

tl;dr - Saving an animal's life isn't the same as a 'rescue' imo. Rescue is a word that has a more specialized meaning when it comes to animals. And also, anyone who maybe feels bad or whatever about buying from walmarts or chain stores, remember;



> Once upon a time there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work. One day he was walking along the shore. As he looked down the beach, he saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself to think of someone who would dance to the day. So he began to walk faster to catch up. As he got closer, he saw that it was a young man and the young man wasn't dancing, but instead he was reaching down to the shore, picking up something and very gently throwing it into the ocean. As he got closer he called out, "Good morning! What are you doing?" The young man paused, looked up and replied, "Throwing starfish in the ocean."
> 
> "I guess I should have asked, why are you throwing starfish in the ocean?" "The sun is up and the tide is going out. And if I don't throw them in they'll die." "But, young man, don't you realize that there are miles and miles of beach and starfish all along it. You can't possibly make a difference!" The young man listened politely. Then bent down, picked up another starfish and threw it into the sea, past the breaking waves and said-
> 
> "It made a difference for that one."


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

I still see no difference in "saving life" and "rescuing" Its the same all around to me and thats what im always gonna think


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

Well we'll have to agree to disagree then. Because for me rescuing = taking an animal out of a situation without encouraging the situation to continue.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Larsa said:


> BTW also you said above that its not rescuing if you have to pay for the animal. Our dog Jasper was a Katrina rescue dog who was also severly abused and we paid $100 to adoþt him. He was malnurished, had bad teeth, and was horrible afraid of people because he was almost literally beaten to death until animal rescue came and got him. We gave him a wonderful home with a big back yard, science diet, all the chew toys he can handle, and a loving family. So according to you, we didnt rescue him because we paid for him?


No, you payed an adoption fee that replaces the money spent on your dog until you adopted it. You didn't pay a fee that just profits an owner. Big difference. Your dog wasn't brought there to make profit. 



hissien said:


> Man you really set off a bomb with this thread....


Actually, everyone here is handling this extremely well! It's good to have some food for thought every now and then, things to make you think on here. Life's not always rainbows, there are downsides 



elijahfeathers said:


> Well we'll have to agree to disagree then. Because for me rescuing = taking an animal out of a situation without encouraging the situation to continue.


THANK YOU. Exactly what I am trying to say! In no way am I telling people to stop getting bettas, I'm just a little urked with people saying rescue when it's actually not. For those of us who WORK in rescue (Yes, I work in rescue, not volunteer. Volunteers are not payed and pay nothing to foster animals. I may not be payed, but I pay for the animals in my care not the rescues who take them in) there is a huge distinct difference in rescue and saving a life... and elijahfeathers said it perfectly.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

wait im confused about your job XD You are saying you "WORK" in animal rescue, yet, are not getting paid for it- and you are paying for the animals you care for. If you arnt getting paid hourly for doin it you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart, isnt that techniqally voluntering? I was 16 when I volunteered with my family after Katrina and we still bought the animals food, toys, and donated every month. We paid to take care of the critters, but it we volunteered to do it, not for income. o.o How old are you and what do you actually do as a steady income? Please clarify... so confused @[email protected]


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Larsa said:


> wait im confused about your job XD You are saying you "WORK" in animal rescue, yet, are not getting paid for it- and you are paying for the animals you care for. If you arnt getting paid hourly for doin it you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart, isnt that techniqally voluntering? o.o How old are you and what do you actually do as a steady income? Please clarify... so confused @[email protected]


I say work because it's not free. I pay for our fosters food, vet care, bedding and housing. The local rescue doesn't. Yes I volunteer my time, but I pay for the animals care. Most rescues pay for everything when you foster, but by paying for it myself I allow them to take in more animals that need homes. Therefore it's work with rescue. I also use a lot of time online trying to match up animals who have lost their owners or visa versa. I also do a lot of work with Breed Specific Legislation and trying to minimize the Pitbull Bans in Canada. I am very active in rescue, I have done my own rescue, I volunteer and I work.

I just don't go to shelters or I'd take them all home!! haha

Not that you should be asking such personal question online ;-) But I'm 27, a stay at home Mom to two toddlers. My fiance works out of home and my income is provided by the government because I have children (not welfare, in Canada you get a set amount every month just because you have kids). That set amount is used towards rescues and fosters, if we have any. Right now we do not  I feel like one of the few oldies on here.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

When I "rescue" a betta I try to bargain them down many times I have, I feel if I can get it for 1/2 the price or free, which is what usually happens if you argue with them enough, then they arent making a profit and if their not making a profit they are loosing money by keeping them. 
But I have a hard time believing that every time you pay for something your not rescuing it, I had a dog once named Shadow (cause she was literally a shadow of a dog when I got her). She came from a petstore that had kept her and 2 other littermates in one of those small glass window things where she wasnt fed or cared for and when they were fed and watered she was the runt and pushed out of the way by the rest of her litter,she was rescued but she had to be payed for. Does this mean she wasnt rescued cause I had to pay to get her out of the situation?


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

What your not getting is by taking that pup out of the situation, you opened that spot for another dog. Continuing the cycle. You may have saved one dog, but you sentenced another to the same fate. How do you explain what you did to the next dog? Was that rescue?


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

Lol okies XD didnt mean to sound like a creeper! Its nice all around people are helping animals. I kinda see what you mean about the details on rescuing, but to me its a serious way of saving life. I respect and love all life- I dont squish bugs  I Im sorry if I offended you too much, I have had a dramatic moment of clarity about life too early. Speaking of serious animal rescues, I wanted to work for the Gulf Spill rescue team last year but I couldnt... and some animals out there are still suffering over ìt. I breed bettas as but I dont sell them for profit  I give em out too ppl who really love bettas, as long as they dont use them for decor!!


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Larsa said:


> I breed bettas as but I dont sell them for profit  I give em out too ppl who really love bettas, as long as they dont use them for decor!!


Can I have 1 for free? I would love to keep it in a vase and grow a plant over it!

On Topic:
The way I see it is saving a life = rescuing. I can understand that buying a betta allows a new one to take its place, however a single person boycotting a company wouldn't make a difference. If you can get a large amount in a small area to do it then it would be lucrative. The best you can do in most situations is to give the ones that may die in the companies care the best home you can... either way a betta will die. Leave the betta there... it dies, buy the betta... the replacement dies.

Also, if you aren't being payed for doing rescues then you are a volunteer. Saying that you shell out your own pocket money doesn't make it "work". That's like saying you work in "Sanitation" when in fact you are a garbage man... just trying to make what you do sound fancier than it is.

However in the end its really down to how someone defines a word. There are tons of words that people use incorrectly every day and then someone comes along who knows a different definition that they use. On top of that English as a language evolves and there are dozens of different dialects... its quite possible that the two words mean the same thing in some, but not in others.

An example... Torch: it means 2 different things in English UK vs American

Those are my thoughts atleast.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I never took offence  I just meant, you really shouldn't ask for personal info like that. Some people have fits! Myself, I'm more laid back with the net, I've been on it for 2 decades. 

Rescue is hard, heartbreaking and sometimes rewarding. Rescue people are heated about what they do and hate when it's dumb'ed down. Nothing about rescue is easy, and to walk into a store, pay a few bucks and take a pet home is not a rescue. You may be rescuing a pet I guess, but it's not a rescue situation. I guess that's a little more clear?

I plan on breeding my bettas, and will sell them locally for profit or ship within country if someone wants one. I also plan on selling to the pet stores here. But I'll also be in the stores weekly checking on the conditions and if I don't like what I see, I'll be pulling my Bettas and walking. Contracts are wonderful things. This is all subject to change though, I certainly won't breed unless I can keep them all


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't see how it matters, what you call it. Your giving an animal in need a home that would love it. That's all that matters. I see so many people everyday who have dogs, not care for them or abandon them because they get too big or have them die due to negligence and just buy another puppy because aww it's so cute X(... If that dog went to a rescue it would be saved but what if the guy who owned it before got another dog and treated it the same way. The situation still continues right? I just say rescue because of a lack for a better word. If it was just a purchase to me I'd buy the healthiest looking fish there, not the sickliest. I know the healthy guy will be picked up by someone but not that guy with the fin rot. That's just my theory .
EDIT: I understand what you're saying about just shelling a few bucks but I spend a lot of my time medicating, changing water, feeding and generally looking after these fish because the're sick.. I don't dump them in a tank and say look it came from a petstore so I rescued it


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Shimizoki said:


> Also, if you aren't being payed for doing rescues then you are a volunteer. Saying that you shell out your own pocket money doesn't make it "work". That's like saying you work in "Sanitation" when in fact you are a garbage man... just trying to make what you do sound fancier than it is.


Since when has 'work' become a noun only? Work can be a verb as well, and I think that's where lines are getting crossed. 

And maybe if I was immature I'd want to dress things up. But I'm not. I work with Rescue, I don't work for Rescue.


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> You may be rescuing a pet I guess, but it's not a rescue situation. I guess that's a little more clear?


That right there is the spark that started this all... Here is what you need to ask. Are you rescuing a betta, or all bettas? Most people seem to just be recuing A betta and that's all that is meant by that.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

fightergirl2710 said:


> I don't see how it matters, what you call it. Your giving an animal in need a home that would love it. That's all that matters. I see so many people everyday who have dogs, not care for them or abandon them because they get too big or have them die due to negligence and just buy another puppy because aww it's so cute X(... If that dog went to a rescue it would be saved but what if the guy who owned it before got another dog and treated it the same way. The situation still continues right? I just say rescue because of a lack for a better word. If it was just a purchase to me I'd buy the healthiest looking fish there, not the sickliest. I know the healthy guy will be picked up by someone but not that guy with the fin rot. That's just my theory .


Rescues can press cruelty charges, individuals cannot  Although it doesn't stop people from owning animals, it's a step. That's why there are movement in place trying to stop animal cruelty and pushing for harder laws/punishments.

As an individual, there is nothing backing you up


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Anyways, I am walking away from this. Yes I started it (haha) but I have said all I can say, and those who think like me have already said what they needed to and walked away. I am sorry for those who cannot understand where I am coming from, I guess that could be lack of communication on my part. I have never been the best at typing out my thoughts on subjects clearly.

Anyways, I truly hope people start looking to make a difference for Bettas, not just for their Betta. I hope more look to rescues, or think about starting their own. Or even do some research and get an inside view of how rescue works.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

The reason I feel the way I do about my opinion is because- and Im NOT in any way scared to share this to anyone! Yeah its personal but im open. - I was severly abused my whole life-being feed almost nothing- I got horribly sick all the time and couldnt get a doctor. I needed help but couldnt -cant go into detail however. She started 'caring' when CPS came. My mom kept me only because of taxes and when I turned 18 she got rid of me because she couldnt get taxes from keeping me. My spouse who was my BF/BFF had to pay a lot-i mean a LOT to fly me down to Texas, feed, me and importantly had me healed, but he saved my life and showed me love and family. I feel personally like he "rescued" me in a way. I cant thank him enough!!! I honestly would be dead without him. Sadly, my mom is having another baby just so she can get more tax money. I was replaced, used for money. So when I see a sick betta who is under fed and sick being shook up by a kid at the petsore I guess I saw my former self. Even tho that fish was replaced with another, I was too. I feel so much for these fish! X'D 

Btw im ok!!! I am living my dream life with no problems  with my new family, a stable job, and LOTs of bettas!!! Hahahah thats the life! XD LMAO


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

To continue on my old dog Shadow no the store did not carries puppies anymore but it wouldnt let the ones it had go for free. So no another poor dog did not takes its place. 
Is it not right to save an animal that is suffering even if another one takes its place? Its just something I dont understand. But if an animal is sick and in desperate need of care... then I feel it does count as a rescue. And as individuals the only thing we can do is get the ones who need help out of it even if another one takes its place. I feel that you gave another it a chance and the new one coming in usually healthier also has a chance then just repetitively letting animals die. I think it would take a long time for an industry to change its practices and a lot of animals killed or otherwise before it happened.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

oh and here is generic definition of rescued 
"_res·cue_/ˈreskyo͞o/Noun: An act of saving or being saved from danger or distress.
Verb: Save (someone) from a dangerous or distressing situation" 
so I guess if you follow the dictionary yes it is a rescue technically..


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

I agree it sucks how they are treated... but I'm just too lazy to save them all.

Also I think Creat has a similar mentality as I do about saving them.

The generic definition is exactly what I meant in an earlier post. Those in the rescue field have an alternative definition. It is not wrong... but often times causes confusion when talking to others not in the same field.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I live in India, we have no laws on how to keep animals, and whatever laws that exist are pretty lax. People get away with murder.. The Muncipal corp buried a horse that had fallen into a pit alive, instead of saving it because it took too long to do something like that... I help shelters and rescues by donating and fostering but it's all they can really do here. There are markets selling endangered animals, there's a law against it but they're still doing it. There is too much crime here for someone to care for an animal...
I know that in the big plan of things, you're right but then I feel that what I'm doing is making a difference in that one animal's life. And that one animal to me is a rescue. As an individual it's the least I can do...


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Shimizoki said:


> I agree it sucks how they are treated... but I'm just too lazy to save them all.
> 
> Also I think Creat has a similar mentality as I do about saving them.
> 
> The generic definition is exactly what I meant in an earlier post. Those in the rescue field have an alternative definition. It is not wrong... but often times causes confusion when talking to others not in the same field.


 I agree with you and I am in the rescue field, I like to see people not get a profit by abusing other creatures but I feel sometimes for the animals benefit it is required....


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Creat said:


> I feel sometimes for the animals benefit it is required....


+1


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Then I ask everyone here... why continue to take single Bettas home when you could be out there trying to make a difference? Sending email? Protests? Setting up groups in protest to cruelty to animals (yes fish are animals to me too!). One person is equivalent to one drop of water, there are ripples. Get enough people on your cause, you can create a splash.


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

> Is it not right to save an animal that is suffering even if another one takes its place? Its just something I dont understand.



Because fish are less expensive, it takes longer to get a place to stop selling them. but think of it like this. I know this is terrible, but this is how it works;

Pet Shop sells puppies, right? They sell puppies and maybe pay $200 for the dogs, and maybe $150 getting them shots and stuff. They sell the puppies for let's say... $600. That's $250 in profit on each puppy that's sold, right? They get their puppies from abusive, unsavory places, and their buying them supports said places (puppy mills), because they give the breeders reason to breed.

Let's say the store stocks six puppies. They're looking at $1,500 profit if they move all the puppies to new homes-- enough to buy more and make more profit. But because we don't want puppies bred in puppymills, let's pretend that people decide to boycot buying puppies from the store. Let's say that only 1 puppy out of the litter of six is sold. Now the store is looking at a total loss of $1,850 on their animals-- plus the cost of upkeeping them. With a loss that big, do you think the store is going to want to continue stocking puppies? They'll probably start to phase them out if they continue to lose money on them.

The same scenario happens to the puppymillers if this process happens to all their buyers-- the stores. Eventually there's no more profit from breeding puppies, and instead there's only loss.

This process is not perfect, and it does cause suffering to some animals, yes. But it also saves many more, who won't be born into that condition, and perpetuate it happening.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I do try to write emails I do talk to the stores but lets face it sometimes people cant make a huge difference on their own due to time money etc. thats what rescue groups are for. I agree that that is really the only complete method is to remove the demand for the animals and they loose profit but that takes a lot of people and a lot of time to make something like that work besides unlike puppy mills not may people care about betta in stores...


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> Then I ask everyone here... why continue to take single Bettas home when you could be out there trying to make a difference? Sending email? Protests? Setting up groups in protest to cruelty to animals (yes fish are animals to me too!). One person is equivalent to one drop of water, there are ripples. Get enough people on your cause, you can create a splash.


I'll quote my previous post.
"I'm too lazy"

I'll also add a few more. 

People are cheap, they don't want to spend large amounts of money.

People are busy, not everyone has the time to protest when they have work and children to take care of.

People like seeing what they do makes a difference, I believe its called Immediate Gratification. That's why losing weight is so hard, you don't drop a pound the second you go on a diet. So we buy a single fish because we immediately see that the betta has a better life.

People don't want to spend time and effort on something that may not pan out. You theoretically could work your entire life trying to save them and spend thousands and it never happen.

And possibly the largest...

People don't care. To the masses its JUST A FISH. something you buy for your kids an then flush down the toilet. I'ts small and therefore insignificant.

I'm not saying this is true of everyone... but I bet almost everyone here could fit into one or more of these categories.

EDIT::
I don't think anyone here would fall under the last category... but most of the world would.


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes but the key is that people who care about bettas make up a big part of people who buy bettas.

I don't have much room to talk, as all my fish come from pet stores. Good Sir was a sympathy purchase, and I probably saved him from dying by buying him. But I also sent the message to the store that yes, if they stock bettas people will buy them.

I 'rescued' him, but I didn't Rescue him in the sense that's meant when we talk about animal rescue. If I Rescued him, I'd have had to steal him or convince the store to part with him for no cost-- therefore sending the message that people will NOT buy fish from them, and that in fact their conditions are so horrible that I'll spread news and discourage others from doing any business with them at all.


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## hissien (Jul 7, 2011)

Irregardless of how you get the betta as long as you care for it to the best of your ability who cares if you rescued or bought them. 

But paying for it is the distinction here not how much you care so relax its just a distinction


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

Awwwwwesss Pitluvs, since you love animals so much and and you wanna breed bettas....you are gonna HATE culling..... :'( I personally cant kill an animal so my suggestion is to take extreme care of the fry and do a LOT of research ahead of time to prevent doing this ( although in nature it happens enevitable ) I still take care of the weird ones with TLC until naturally their time has come.... :'(


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

elijahfeathers said:


> Yes but the key is that people who care about bettas make up a big part of people who buy bettas.
> 
> I don't have much room to talk, as all my fish come from pet stores. Good Sir was a sympathy purchase, and I probably saved him from dying by buying him. But I also sent the message to the store that yes, if they stock bettas people will buy them.
> 
> I 'rescued' him, but I didn't Rescue him in the sense that's meant when we talk about animal rescue. If I Rescued him, I'd have had to steal him or convince the store to part with him for no cost-- therefore sending the message that people will NOT buy fish from them, and that in fact their conditions are so horrible that I'll spread news and discourage others from doing any business with them at all.


I don't think anyone who uses the term rescue on this forum, means it in the animal rescue sense... I think they all mean it in the normal definition of rescue sense... A lot of these campaigns to save animals are fads, like save the tiger, for example. They did some pretty serious campaigning for a month and everyone was gung ho but now you don't hear about it. I'm sure the core people who started it are still passionate to make a difference but what about the rest? People usually care but most don't care enough.


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## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

Eh, culling is not an issue to me. An animal that is so seriously deformed that it's not going to live a good life needs to be put down. Depending on your standards, animals that don't meet your quality expectations ought to be culled too. But meh. Even I'm biased against fish, because I'd cull as in kill fish that didn't meet my standard levels-- but if I were breeding, say cats, I'd simply have them fixed and placed as pets.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Larsa said:


> Awwwwwesss Pitluvs, since you love animals so much and and you wanna breed bettas....you are gonna HATE culling..... :'( I personally cant kill an animal so my suggestion is to take extreme care of the fry and do a LOT of research ahead of time to prevent doing this ( although in nature it happens enevitable ) I still take care of the weird ones with TLC until naturally their time has come.... :'(


I have no problem with culling if I have to and the situation calls for it. I love animals, therefore I would not subject an animal to a life of pain and suffering at my own hands. Sometimes the best option is humane euthanasia, no matter how much it hurts my human heart  Now I have to say, I would only cull if an animal proves to be set up for a painful life. If one wasn't as pretty as the others, then no. That's why if I breed my Bettas, I will only do so if I have room to keep the majority of them. Hence why I don't even plan to start planning until next January! 

My Rottie, 5 years ago, was poisoned by my neighbor. For days I watched them pump him his pure alcohol trying to clean the poison from his system. This dog was my heart, I spent so much time and money (cancer treatment 4 months earlier saved his life) and rehabilitated him after he was taken from a physically abusive home. He grew with me. But that day I looked in his eyes and they told me there was a slight chance he would survive, I couldn't put him through another moment. He was tired and suffering. I let him go. Another day of torture was not what I wanted for him. If I let him go through it all, then that was purely for my gratification. But my heart is what's best for him, and that's what had to be done. I may be an animal lover, but I'm a realist too. Animals come before my feelings.


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Creat* 
_I feel sometimes for the animals benefit it is required...._

+1


+2 :3 I looooooove when people take in sick bettas and make them healthy again!!! Its soooooo sweeeet :'D Even though yeah it sucks we have to pay for a dying fish, sometimes its nessesary to save its life but well worth it if the fish heals, has a happy cozy home and loves its owner back!


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sometimes I make such a scene about a sick fish that I'll get it for free lol! The last two "rescues" were given to me for less than a dollar together... I've got 2 others for free.. One old man that runs a lfs gives them to me for free just because I show interest in them and nobody else will buy them..


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

fightergirl2710 said:


> Sometimes I make such a scene about a sick fish that I'll get it for free lol! The last two "rescues" were given to me for less than a dollar together... I've got 2 others for free.. One old man that runs a lfs gives them to me for free just because I show interest in them and nobody else will buy them..


 
Whaaaaaat!?? XD Tell me how you do that!! Thats tactics right there! Genius. LOL my spouse would kill me if I did that... he thinks we have "too many fish" Pfffhh... we have 6 adults and we are gonna have a big full of baby bettas soon! we can afford it, no problem. Thats not too much fish, eh? ; D Nothing wrong with an apt full of gorgeous aquariums when we have no pet fees for fish and free water : )


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I'd have way more if those were the conditions lol! It's easy for me because there are no supermarkets selling fish, they're all small lfs' if I go there and start complaining loudly about the fish, they'll lose their customers to another shop, so they just get all red eared, bag up the fish and tell me here, take it.. Sometimes I get adamant shop owners but I manage a 50% off or more from them... I was born to haggle lol!


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm inviting you over to my place to steal me some fish.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

As long as you pay my ticket, I'm there XD


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Start walking... then swimming... then walking again.


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

I didn't read this, and will probably not look back on it ever again if it has so many replies, but I thought I'd share my opinion!

Most of the time, people that say this, are not rescues at all, and really wanted that betta. Like really bad. They say they've "rescued" it because it was in a horrible condition, but at the same time, they really wanted it. 

I understand how you feel, but my local PetSmarts/PetCos are the best I have... WalMart is worse in my area, and do not have all the supplies I need. (Their "fish" section is VERY lacking!!) I have gone to other 'specialty' stores with amazing supplies and everything fish, but when it comes to bettas, they are in drinking cups, and not like the large ones, but the little plastic ones you see at water coolers!! YES! I love one pet store, but would never buy anything betta related from there because of their terrible, TERRIBLE conditions, plus, it is 45 mins away. Then another one that is more salt water fish, but stil has what I need, keep their bettas in those drinking cups without lids, so young they're un-sexed, with extreme stress stripes! D:< 

I don't like PetSmart as much because of how they house their bettas, so I put most of my money into PetCo. Their fish are normally very well taken care of, and all seem very healthy most of the time. They're my best option. I cannot afford to order online, unfortunately, or I would.

Supply and demand is a tricky, tricky thing.


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## Abendagon (Jul 11, 2011)

*Here's a better idea:*

I was JUST thinking about this, actually! D: I know to never support pet stores who sell sickly pets, no matter the species. Never buy ANYTHING from pet stores like that is my motto. >:| But it's true, I walk past all the dying (or already dead) bettas sitting in cups at Walmart, and I can't stand to see them like that. But I know I can't buy them, so what do I do?

Then it hit me: STEAL THEM.

(Before I continue, let me just say that, no, I haven't ever actually stolen a betta from a store, and I don't plan to soon. But I will always entertain the idea now.)

You see, if you STEAL them, the store is losing money, AND you actually get to rescue the betta. And when the store replaces the betta you stole, you could just go steal that betta, too, making the store lose even more money and rescuing yet another betta. Get all your friends involved, and you can steal ALL the bettas, and if you keep it up, the store will figure out that it's not worth it to stock bettas, so they'll stop. And the cycle of abuse in THAT store ENDS.

I invite you to put this plan to the test. I'd really like to see it work (for bettas and all abused animals). <3


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

Yeah many others have said to steal them...There's kids as young as nine on this site and my mom works retail and has to deal with thieves...So even if it's to save a betta I don't support it. I don't want to be flagged down by the security officers because I was smuggling a fish out. (Those cups have barcodes on them.)


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## Larsa (May 6, 2011)

Uh... I am a walmart employee and I can tell you for a fact the barcode thing is a myth. The only thing that triggers an alarm for the EAS system is if someone is carring an item with a security device- usually a gator tag, magnetic strip ( deactivated by purchase ) or a sticker with a tiny magnet in it that was not removed or deactivated. I promise! Not that I am encouraging this, just stating a fact. XD Us employees accidently walk out with things all the time from the store and no alarms go off. Cameras are always watching you... cant stretch that enough. I dont think anyone can get away with smuggling a fish... Shhhhh its our lil secret I told you this Walmart code, mmkay? ;P


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

lol I thought everyone new about the tags... I guess not.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i was once taught how to steal bettas and fish. by someone who works at Petco. x: i won't share that info, but i know how to save a fish if i gotta.

i saved all my fish. especially my females, and Remy. even though Remy didn't make it, i know he enjoyed his last two days. clean water, room to swim, someone who loves him. my females, if i hadn't bought them, they'd all be dead. long-dead, from a wanna be betta breeder, who apparently comes back every week or two to buy new females.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Dont see how a wana be betta breeder can kill off so many females .... usually its my males who get injured.. maybe my girls are just beasts lol.
I have never stolen a fish actually or switched lids although I have had workers switch them for me then discount them half off because they are allowed to ;p I have walked out with many fish marked as vt females then half off that.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Creat said:


> Dont see how a wana be betta breeder can kill off so many females .... usually its my males who get injured.. maybe my girls are just beasts lol.
> I have never stolen a fish actually or switched lids although I have had workers switch them for me then discount them half off because they are allowed to ;p I have walked out with many fish marked as vt females then half off that.


i don't know, but the fish guy has told me that the same people come in every week and buy all their females. i was super lucky, and he requested extra females for me, and that's how i got Caroline. i was super lucky when i got Lulu, and Freya didn't look like a betta, she was so tiny! Chappy's my ONLY non-pet store betta. :d


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Larsa said:


> Uh... I am a walmart employee and I can tell you for a fact the barcode thing is a myth. The only thing that triggers an alarm for the EAS system is if someone is carring an item with a security device- usually a gator tag, magnetic strip ( deactivated by purchase ) or a sticker with a tiny magnet in it that was not removed or deactivated. I promise! Not that I am encouraging this, just stating a fact. XD Us employees accidently walk out with things all the time from the store and no alarms go off. Cameras are always watching you... cant stretch that enough. I dont think anyone can get away with smuggling a fish... Shhhhh its our lil secret I told you this Walmart code, mmkay? ;P



Although you can get fired for this, thanks for sharing! It's true, UPC codes will not set off alarms but those plastic bars taped to the bottom of boxes or plastic clips on clothes/shoes can. No way to deactivate, since the machines that do that are turned off when unattended. Also, cameras in the stores have 360 ability, and there are/can be floor walkers (those who pretend to shop but are watching younger kids in case they steal). 

If I didn't have kids, ya sure bet I'd steal a Betta. I'd steal any animal in need of help, I know a few dogs around here that have gone 'missing'  Not by my hands though.


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, I believe they can be deactivated with a strong magnet. I have not tested this to be sure though.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

But then you wouldn't have the DING sounds! How can you deactivate without the DING!


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

A Bell?

Swipe it with a magnet then ring a bike bell!


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## Abendagon (Jul 11, 2011)

Ha ha ha! I'm such a rebel! XD I encourage law-breaking and theft for the sake of abused animals. X3 I would encourage it for humans. *shrug*


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

PLEASE.....do not break laws.........and PLEASE do not encourage members to break laws....stealing is wrong both morally and legally......

Shame on you......


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

Sorry OFL... i was just joking.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh I'm falling off my chair laughing here!


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## Shimizoki (Jul 8, 2011)

I feel like I was just scolded by my g-ma... Shimi isn't in his happy place.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm laughing my butt off right now! XD I feel like a kid who's kid brother got yelled at hehehe!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Shimizoki said:


> I feel like I was just scolded by my g-ma... Shimi isn't in his happy place.


No worries, sorry....that post wasn't directed at just you.....that was directed at everyone as a general rule.......stealing is wrong...Period......... and as a family friendly forum we should not encourage, suggest or give direction on how to do it.......fish or anything........


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> No worries, sorry....that post wasn't directed at just you.....that was directed at everyone as a general rule.......stealing is wrong...Period......... and as a family friendly forum we should not encourage, suggest or give direction on how to do it.......fish or anything........


and that is why, despite being told by a Petco employee how to steal from not only Petco, but walmart, i'm not sharing it, and i've NEVER done it. i'm too nice a person to steal. D: i'd rather cuss the manager out and show exactly how mad i am, and what's wrong. well.... maybe not cuss them out. x: but they'll get a stern talkin' to! >:O


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

If we're going to be serious, then I won't share my view. After all, family forum. 


But thanks OFL, great to point this out for those who may take us seriously.


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## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

The stern talking to works, I tells ya!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

When it comes down to it its all semantics.

For me. Rescuing is to save something for imminent danger. Unless you buy a fish that is days away from death purchasing a fish from a pet store is not a rescue because you cannot say with most certainty that a healthy fish from a pet store will wither away in its cup.

To buy an animal because you don't like the chance that it could possibly end up in a bad situation is a sympathy buy. My VT female with the crooked spine is a sympathy buy.. I was afraid no one would think she was pretty and wouldn't buy her so I took her home to fill a space in my sorority.


As for paying for an animal vs adoption fee, for me they are two very separate things. If anyone knows anything about rescues and shelters is they are virtual money pits. They barely cover the costs of upkeep on the animals and keeping facilities open which is why donations are so heavily relied upon. 

When you adopt a dog (for example) it usually comes spayed or neutered, microchipped (in most cases nowadays), and up to date on all shots and preventative medications. If anyone knows anything about costs of veterinary care you'll know that the things I mentioned are NOT cheap. Add into that food, toys, shelter, supplies and the shelter is not profiting off the adoption of that animal.

Pet stores on the other hand take a fish that they buy for at most $1 (and that's pushing it) and turn it around and sell it for $5+. Big profit.


I still don't refer to my dog as a 'rescue'. She's adopted. She was not in dire straights when I adopted her so IMO she is not a rescue. Dogs on death row, dogs rescued off the streets, etc.. those are rescues. Happy healthy dogs and puppies from no kill shelters are adoptions.

As far as stealing fish. I've heard of people that have done that and to be honest I find that despicable. You wouldn't steal milk or bread from a store so why is stealing a fish ok? Stealing is never ok and debasing yourself just for one or two fish which WILL be replaced and will NOT be missed by the store is disgusting. Instead why not save up your money and buy a fish from a hardworking hobbyist who has put countless hours and dollars into their fish.


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## Abendagon (Jul 11, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> PLEASE.....do not break laws.........and PLEASE do not encourage members to break laws....stealing is wrong both morally and legally......
> 
> Shame on you......


Sorry. I just get upset and carried away sometimes. :,C


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

1fish2fish, I completely agree. Though in a way, when you adopt a dog from a no kill shelter, you are in a way rescuing a dog. You might argue that no, the dog you just adopted was not in need of being rescued, but in taking that dog out of the shelter they can go and rescue another dog that is at a kill shelter. In fact, one of our dogs was rescued from a kill shelter, we just happened to adopt him from a no kill shelter. But in adopting him they were then able to go and get another dog from the kill shelter. I would say that it was a win-win-win!
We got a great dog, the dog got a great home (he is now 10-12 years old and still young!), and the shelter can help another dog (even though this was 8 years ago...). 
But since there simply are not that many rescues for bettas, I try to buy from the places that keep their fish the best. My rational for this is yes, I can buy ONE fish in horrible conditions. But then I just gave them a profit and an excuse to keep all the rest in horrible conditions because someone else just like me will come along and do the same. Instead, if I choose not to buy the poor fish kept in horrible conditions, and if no one else did either, they will literally start just throwing money away. They had to buy the fish in the first place, if it doesn't get sold they lose money. Eventually they will lose enough money that it won't be worth them selling them any more. When I go and buy a fish kept in healthier conditions, displayed nicely, etc, and pay top dollar for that fish, the person/company/etc that sells them will have incentive to keep their fish healthier because they get the most profit. I have no problem paying $14 for a fish at my local Petco because they actually do a really good job of taking care of them and take pride in keeping them looking amazing (and it is torture going in and looking at them when I can't get any more. :'( ). Yes, one fish really appreciates being "rescued", but all of the others that don't get rescued and have to sit and die in those little cups don't appreciate it.

What I would strongly recommend is filling out a comment card or writing the store. Tell them you simply could not buy fish from them because you were appalled by their conditions. Go on to a site like Yelp and write about the sub-par conditions of their animals. Dropping profits is the only thing that will get their attention.


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## Adabell (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, this forum isn't a place where people should be encouraged to break the law and possibly get caught. I understand that some stores upset people and make them want to steal the live animals on stock, but we must remember that stealing is wrong even if it's a fish. People get in trouble for stealing and it's not pretty when it happens. I don't want anyone on here doing anything that will get them into deep trouble.


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## TexasCichlid (Jul 12, 2011)

My opinion matches the OP. Would you buy every puppy from a guy obviously selling dogs from a puppy mill? I sure would not. That's just encouraging the puppy mill. Now, would I rescue a dog confiscated by animal control/police from a pupply mill? I have and I would again.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Oldfishlady said:


> No worries, sorry....that post wasn't directed at just you.....that was directed at everyone as a general rule.......stealing is wrong...Period......... and as a family friendly forum we should not encourage, suggest or give direction on how to do it.......fish or anything........


Holy mackerel, I can't believe I missed this! I agree with OFL 100%. I've read where some people buy a betta then when another one dies they take the receipt and the dead one and go get a new one for free.That is extremely dishonest. I hope our members are better than that.


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## lessandler (Jun 5, 2011)

I agree with 1fish2fish as well and several others on this thread. I do believe it is important to support local fish stores that treat their pets humanely when possible. 

But I do want to caution you 1fish2fish that I did the exact same thing as you, purchase a red veil tale male to be exact with some deformities becuase he looked very close to death. And I have reported what happened on another thread so forgive me for being a broken record, but the fish lived for years but died with a severely bent spine as well. 

That and other symptoms led me to believe he had fish tuberculosis (which because he never lived with other inhabitants, he had when I purchased him). The fish can live for a while under ideal conditions, but it is highly contagious to other fish, contractable and dangerous to humans, and very very difficult to eradicate fully from your tank save breaking it all down and using pool grade bleach. I called vets to try to get an autopsy but the cost was $375, but I am nearly 100% certain with the symptoms he displayed it was fish tuberculosis. Apparently a disease that is more common than not these days in poorly run pet stores.

Not trying to hijack, but thought I should warn you since you are a breeder. And thought I would post this as caution to those who want to save dying fish from high volume stores. And please be careful in quarantining these animals before introducing them to community or divided tanks or it is possible that you may save one fish to the detriment of others.


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## betta dude (May 22, 2011)

walmart kills bettas


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

well, I call mine rescues because I am almost 100% positive the "rescue" ones would of died if I did not take them home with me. Lucky is a VT but looked like a CT with holes all over his fins and sever ammonia burns (you can watch his music video in my siggy to see his original condition) and Sushi literally looked like 1/2 a fish floating in her cup because her tail was gone completly. tasuki is the newest walmart rescue. He is a CT with a bad case of fin rot.

FYI: I dont go for the ones at deaths door. The fish needs to be active and responsive. Fin rot, SBD and ammonia burns I can handle but I dont want to mess with actual fish diseases like ich, fungus, ect.

The ones from petco all looked OK but when i tested the ammonia levels they were all between 2 - 4.0 I don't consider them rescues as they may if been bought by someone else but with ammonia levels so high I dont think they had much time left to fins homes. 

Maybe not so much for petco since they are a petstore but in the case of walmart, i doubt it would make much difference weather we buy fish there or not. The price of a $6 fish compared to other items like TV's and food..I dont see it making a dent in their profit margin.

There is a local fish store here called fishtopia but they are worse then both walmart and petco put together. other then that, the nearest place would be 400 miles south in anchorage.

as for the walmart barcode thing - my walmart just has the UPC number on the cup AND the cashiers tell all people buying fish to raise the cups/bags above the security gates at the entrance. Supposedly the radiation or whatever it gives off can kill the fish.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

All my animals are quarantined for at least a month. That female is perfectly healthy with the exception of a slightly curved spine.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Tikibirds said:


> The price of a $6 fish compared to other items like TV's and food..I dont see it making a dent in their profit margin.


It's not about hurting the profit Walmart makes, as you said they could care less about a $6 fish when they sell $1000 TV's. It's the fact that if they have 20 Bettas and none are bought, they won't get 20 more Bettas on the next shipment. If they see the fish are not selling, they won't order more. But if they take in 20 Bettas, treat them like crap so all the bleeding hearts run in and save them all, well that's 20 Bettas sold. Take in 20 more and do it all over again! Companies don't care about what's right, or what they have to do so sell their stuff, they just want it sold so they can make another order to their suppliers.

Honestly... there is a main grocery store here that has smaller no name stores in low income areas. Once the food is close to expire date, they ship the food off to the no name store at a discount price. Instead of throwing it out, they sell it to those who are less off than the majority. They don't care that the poor is eating questionable food, they just see it as making 42 on that $5 box of cereal instead of having to toss it out.


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## lessandler (Jun 5, 2011)

Good to hear it 1fish2fish... I am paranoid about the disease I guess.

Generally I have purchased bettas because they looked healthy and beautiful, but I have purchased them in the past precisely because they didn't and I didn't want the poor creature to die. I do agree with pitluvs and others in that it's not about bringing down walmart (good luck) but in just being aware that by buying unhealthy bettas you are actually in some ways supporting them being kept that way.

In reading many of these posts on the site, it almost appears more than half of all people buy out of pity (maybe just those I came across). Which if that is the case, then it is actually more profitable for businesses to abuse bettas because it creates more impulse buying. (And sadly... it is also profitable to promote their continued abuse in unlivable conditions of "betta homes" that are inadequate because you replace them by buying another.) Perhaps if people only bought healthy bettas, there would be greater incentive for sellers to keep them healthy, because every abused animal would equal profit loss. Either way, walmart or walmart employees have no incentive to keep bettas in better conditions when the sick and dying are flying off the shelves. 

I am not saying that people should not continue to purchase and help save dying pet store animals; I for one certainly admire the compassion and generosity that it takes to do so. And I recognize it would be far easier to take care of an already healthy fish. But I do believe in supporting those businesses that do treat their animals humanely, educates their clientele accurately, and sells no betta torture "homes".

That being said I am sure that most people don't have an LFS that even remotely fits that discription. I only know of 2 in my area and by area I mean an hour's distance away and I am near San Francisco a major city! So no judgement on my part on where you buy, a good LFS is hard to find.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> It's the fact that if they have 20 Bettas and none are bought, they won't get 20 more Bettas on the next shipment. If they see the fish are not selling, they won't order more.


Hmmm..possibly. However I think they would get another shipment in weather every one of them died in the store or not. 

The didnt have any over the weekend and today they had about 20. They all looked so sad. Half of them were just lying on their sides. :-(


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## Persica (Jul 14, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> But I need to ask a question that's been KILLING me since I joined.
> 
> Why do people say they are rescuing Bettas from pet stores?
> 
> ...


Totally agree. I've been wondering the same thing. My kitties are all rescues as well as my dog.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

All the fish I have bought over the years have been healthy. I only had one that died about 3 weeks after I bought it. He was probably sick when I bought him and I didn't know it.


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