# 6 Gallon Log



## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

So I finally set up and started to cycle my 6 Gallon Eclipse. The light was busted but my dad fixed it ( woot) so it has
- an 8 watt 18,000 k bulb( couldnt find anything with a higher watt)
- the built in bio wheel filter ( with filter foam replacing the carbon cartridge.)
- It will have 25 heater ( when Ben moves in ) 
- play sand substrate with river stone accents
-Rock tunnel
- a bunch of horn wort
-A big java fern, and a few tiny ones
- Some Red ludvigia ( we think ) 
- I also want an anubias when I can find one and possibly water wisteria
-A marimo moss ball when the fish is moved in










I plan on keeping My male Crowntail , Benvolio in this with a few shrimp ( crystal red and cherry , possibly yellow) and a malasyian trumpet snail if I can find one. 

How many shrimp do you think I could add? 

What ferilizers would you suggest for these plants, specific brands?



Cycle Log:

Day one : April 8
Ammonia : 4-5 ppm
Nitrates: Did not test
Nitrites: Did not test
pH: 6.8


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

I put on a white back ground. here it is:


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

That is sweet!


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Be careful with crystal reds. They can be pricey and are very sensitive to nitrAtes.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Be careful with crystal reds. They can be pricey and are very sensitive to nitrAtes.


Oh good to know! I will have to look into different shrimp, but it would be til it is all cycled anyways. and I am gonna start with a ghost cause.. the snack dilemma haha.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Would you believe that your post inspired me to check Craigslist (probably the 4th time today) and someone had just posted an Eclipse aquarium for $25?! It looks like a 6 or maybe 12 gallon; I've sent a note off to the poster and I hope they respond.

Have you had any problems with water/condensation gathering in the hood and then running down the back of the tank when you open the hood?


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Would you believe that your post inspired me to check Craigslist (probably the 4th time today) and someone had just posted an Eclipse aquarium for $25?! It looks like a 6 or maybe 12 gallon; I've sent a note off to the poster and I hope they respond.
> 
> Have you had any problems with water/condensation gathering in the hood and then running down the back of the tank when you open the hood?


WellI just set it up yesterday, jsut turned on the ligt otday and dont have it heater, so little to no condensation so far. but I will keep you posted. 

Lucky I paid 35 for mine.. probabl should have went lower but she was asking 50 so its fine. I like the look of it. looks huge for 6 gallon really.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Cinderwolf, I don't know how much dwarf shrimp cost in your area, but around here Ghost are a dollar or less, but the "fancy" shrimps are *expensive!* Heck, they want $5 for a Red Cherry!

I hunted eBay and found someone posting for 12 Red Cherry Shrimp for $14? Hopefully they arrive OK. I've got several tanks and I'm gonna divide them up between them.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Cinderwolf, I don't know how much dwarf shrimp cost in your area, but around here Ghost are a dollar or less, but the "fancy" shrimps are *expensive!* Heck, they want $5 for a Red Cherry!
> 
> I hunted eBay and found someone posting for 12 Red Cherry Shrimp for $14? Hopefully they arrive OK. I've got several tanks and I'm gonna divide them up between them.


Actually dont know either, I havent really researched prices yet , but I have heard ghosts are cheaper , hence why it will be my test haha. I want a few varieties so I can tell them apart 

Hoping it isnt too expensive, but I am only gonna get like 3-4 so it wont be too bad. and one of them will be the cheapy ghost hah.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

April 9 :
Ammonia: 3
Nitites: 0
Nitrates: 0 

Brought the ammonia back up to aroudn 5


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## Crashzero (Apr 9, 2012)

This would make a good reference for my 5 gallon locally made glass tank. I love the setup, looks cozy


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

PowerPee said:


> This would make a good reference for my 5 gallon locally made glass tank. I love the setup, looks cozy



Haha thanks. I liek it too. 


I have a question: Since putting in the ammonia bubbles have been gathering on the surface.. I cant figure out what it is.. the bottle of ammonia had no ingredient list and when I shook it a few bubbles came but they didnt remain .. so I figured it was good? Did I mess up? do you think the ammonia wasn't pure ? If it isn't what should I do?


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## Crashzero (Apr 9, 2012)

I have to try that setup one of these days... usually ours here are just plain tanks with 1 fish each... no decorations or anything at all hehe


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Cinderwolf said:


> Haha thanks. I liek it too.
> 
> 
> I have a question: Since putting in the ammonia bubbles have been gathering on the surface.. I cant figure out what it is.. the bottle of ammonia had no ingredient list and when I shook it a few bubbles came but they didnt remain .. so I figured it was good? Did I mess up? do you think the ammonia wasn't pure ? If it isn't what should I do?



This could mean there is soap, this shouldn't happen. >< does it smell good? 
You may have to start over D:


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> This could mean there is soap, this shouldn't happen. >< does it smell good?
> You may have to start over D:


The ammonia? not at all.. smells like urine really. so I guess it just smells like ammonia. I did sniff it before I started using it. 

I was worried about that : P so would I need to just rinse everything off really well and maybe replace the sand with fresh stuff ( I have loads). I will take a photo of the bubbles if that helps anyone. I will put ti up tomorrow


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

It should only bubble for a fee seconds, like if you shook water.
However with it in the tank, probably soap that the filter stirred up.. 
I'm not sure how you go about cleaning things covered in soap :s


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Well when I had a soap problem before I was told just super rinsing it with hot water liek forever will do the trick. Eff. This si not what I wanted.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Sounds good.
Hmm, if you can't find ammonia, I'd suggest just doing the fish food method. Since it's only for a betta you don't need to use too much food.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Sounds good.
> Hmm, if you can't find ammonia, I'd suggest just doing the fish food method. Since it's only for a betta you don't need to use too much food.


 well I want shrimp and possible a snail as well. But i dont tihnk it will bee hard to find.. I just used this stuff cause I already had it and i wanted to get started on cycling it... ugh. I jsut created so much work for myself after I thoguht i was done. Great.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Haha, don't worry, I always do the same thing xD
I got bored of watching water drain into a bucket, left, and came back to an overflowed bucket.. Had to move my dresser to clean it all up Dx


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Haha, don't worry, I always do the same thing xD
> I got bored of watching water drain into a bucket, left, and came back to an overflowed bucket.. Had to move my dresser to clean it all up Dx


 well I need to drain it and rinse everything like mad to get rid of the soap or whatever then i need to re wash some new sand, find somewhere to put the old sand, then re plant all my plants ( if they survive all the intense rinsing) then fill the tank up again wait the 2 days for the sand to settle again then start the filter again ( that needs to be super rinsed too) then after all that I need to buy new ammonia. And I lose the 2 days of cycling. 

All the while my mother will be telling me I am being ridiculous.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

2 days isn't that far gone, at least it wasn't like a week.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> 2 days isn't that far gone, at least it wasn't like a week.


Ya good point.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Oh, bummer, I'm sorry! Don't forget to rinse the dickens out of that sand this time so you don't have to wait for it to settle.

I'm loving the look of your setup and if I end up getting the Eclipse tank I found on Craigslist then I might do a sand setup. I think it's a 12 gallon, so I've been toying with the idea of a little herd of dwarf cory's as well as some cherry shrimp with a single betta. I've thought of a sorority but I've heard too many stories about them ripping each other up.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

eeeee That really sucks! I wish someone had come around and told you it bubbles like that.  I've never done a cycle like that.

It looks really good! You're making me want to set up my 5 gallon and get a betta... I just got another heater, too, haha. All I need is the fish! WHAT AM I WAITING FOR?!


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

kfish said:


> eeeee That really sucks! I wish someone had come around and told you it bubbles like that.  I've never done a cycle like that.
> 
> It looks really good! You're making me want to set up my 5 gallon and get a betta... I just got another heater, too, haha. All I need is the fish! WHAT AM I WAITING FOR?!


Yes, whatever are you waiting for?!?!?


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Oh, bummer, I'm sorry! Don't forget to rinse the dickens out of that sand this time so you don't have to wait for it to settle.
> 
> I'm loving the look of your setup and if I end up getting the Eclipse tank I found on Craigslist then I might do a sand setup. I think it's a 12 gallon, so I've been toying with the idea of a little herd of dwarf cory's as well as some cherry shrimp with a single betta. I've thought of a sorority but I've heard too many stories about them ripping each other up.



Haha actually the first time around it only took a day and a half to settle so ya a bit more rinsing and it will be even quicker


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## littlegreen (Mar 11, 2012)

What a beautiful set up!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

littlegreen said:


> What a beautiful set up!


Thanks  It will look better when the plants grow more : )


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## Crashzero (Apr 9, 2012)

Olympia said:


> It should only bubble for a fee seconds, like if you shook water.
> However with it in the tank, probably soap that the filter stirred up..
> I'm not sure how you go about cleaning things covered in soap :s


I was curious about this because bubbles accumulates with the mini tank that I used for my CTs here at the office (no soaping), but when at home no bubbles.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

These are the bubbles I am talking about.. and they just accumulate there they don't pop. More and more are coming. Also, kids don't take a wiff of ammonia it burns.


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## Crashzero (Apr 9, 2012)

Ah okay. That happened to me once and after a day or two it disappeared. Different bubbles that happened on my tank before...


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

PowerPee said:


> I was curious about this because bubbles accumulates with the mini tank that I used for my CTs here at the office (no soaping), but when at home no bubbles.


Maybe your betta are building a bubble nest?


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

I I think she's doing a fishless cycle, but yeah I thought bubble nest when I saw it too. Is there such a thing as betta ghosts?!


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

My NPT gets bubbles like that. Maybe it's just something with certain water?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

sometimes with filters, there will be bubbles on the surface, and I have noticed during cycling for me... the water top is "thicker" which helps the bubbles stick  but my water conditioner also foams if you were to add it to the bucket before the water


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

kfish said:


> My NPT gets bubbles like that. Maybe it's just something with certain water?


 hmm maybe? I dont knwo.. I kinda dont want to risk it thoguh


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> sometimes with filters, there will be bubbles on the surface, and I have noticed during cycling for me... the water top is "thicker" which helps the bubbles stick  but my water conditioner also foams if you were to add it to the bucket before the water


tell you what, I will take a video of myself shaking the ammonia bottle and you guys can tell em if it is an okay ammonia? Cause I am not sure


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I wouldn't know about straight ammonia, so everyone else'll have to judge  I do the fish food method :lol:


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

What brand/all info is the ammonia? I'd hate for you to have to tear it down for no reason (or for any reason, for that matter!) D:


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

kfish said:


> What brand/all info is the ammonia? I'd hate for you to have to tear it down for no reason (or for any reason, for that matter!) D:


It is No Name brand Household Ammonia.. It isnt perfumes but ti has no ingredience list.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Have you not torn it down?
If you haven't yet, there's probably a phone number on the bottle, you can call and by law they are required to tell you what's in it.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Olympia said:


> Have you not torn it down?
> If you haven't yet, there's probably a phone number on the bottle, you can call and by law they are required to tell you what's in it.


Oooh good idea XD


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Nope I haven't torn it down yet. And I will check for a phone number but in the mean time I took some photos and a video


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I dunno if it is relevant as of course I don't use ammonia... but there's household ammonia and "aquarium" ammonia apparently :/ again don't go off what I say xD


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

When I looked up that brand, I see other people who have used that brand for fishless cycling.

I don't know if what your ammonia is doing would be considered foaming?!?! D: D: D: Lol! It's not really -foaming- just... sort of bubbly!


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

"Hi, 

Quoting Chris Cow's Fishless Cycling ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) article...

"The most difficult part of the fishless cycling procedure, according to many postings on the message boards, involves finding a good source of ammonia. Ammonia used should be free of surfactants, perfumes, and colorants. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to ACS grade ammonium hydroxide. Always read the ingredients on the bottle. The best sources for Pure or Clear Ammonia are discount grocery stores or hardware stores. *Often, the no-name brand is the stuff you're looking for*. Some other people have reported success with the following brand names of ammonia: Top Crest or Whirl Clear Ammonia. To paraphrase RTR: If it doesn't list the ingredients, or say Clear Ammonia (or Pure Ammonia or 100% Ammonia, or Pure Ammonium Hydroxide), then leave it on the shelf and look elsewhere. Shake the bottle if you're not sure about it; ammonia with surfactants will foam, while good ammonia will not." 

Good luck with your fishless cycle! I had access to laboratory reagent and it was easy for me to get ammonium hydroxide. =)"

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/archive/index.php/t-47249.html

EDIT: Okay, so now I'm not sure if this guy was actually talking about No Name brand or a no name brand. X_X BUT I have seen posts that reference No Name(R) being used for fishless cycling. ... but they say it doesn't suds at all. So confusing!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

there ya go lol.

So, a question...how much have you used for the tank?


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I dunno... after watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zTbAz-akUI
I think yours is sudsing too much....


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

This is where the confusion starts.
You got that at No Frills, right?
Clever buggers named their brand "no name." No Name is the name. It's stupid, I know.. When they say no name, they aren't directly referring to the stuff you buy at No Frills, just something without a huge name on it.

Sena, I've heard that "aquarium ammonia" doesn't exist because fish stores could never sell it for a better deal than cleaning ammonia. :s


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> there ya go lol.
> 
> So, a question...how much have you used for the tank?


 I used a cap one day ( the cap of an aquafina water bottle) and a half a cap the next day


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> This is where the confusion starts.
> You got that at No Frills, right?
> Clever buggers named their brand "no name." No Name is the name. It's stupid, I know.. When they say no name, they aren't directly referring to the stuff you buy at No Frills, just something without a huge name on it.
> 
> Sena, I've heard that "aquarium ammonia" doesn't exist because fish stores could never sell it for a better deal than cleaning ammonia. :s


I got it at Super store but yea it is the actual brand no name, not jsut a brandless one. I am trying to find an ingredient list some where

But I dunno might just redo it to be safe ya know.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Bahhh. That just sucks.  No phone number anywhere, either? Being a brand named No Name makes it SO HARD to find ANYTHING about it. UGHHHHH


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

kfish said:


> Bahhh. That just sucks.  No phone number anywhere, either? Being a brand named No Name makes it SO HARD to find ANYTHING about it. UGHHHHH


I havnet looked yet for the number haha


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: like I said I wasn't sure  I've looked it up but it got annoying to figure it out I used fish food LOL


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## Crashzero (Apr 9, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Maybe your betta are building a bubble nest?


I don't think so because after a couple of days the bubbles are gone. Am I correct to assume that the nest is only built on the ceiling of the fish right? The bubbles that I was referring to are almost everywhere inside the tank. =D


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

OKAY! So for my own piece of mind, I tore the tank down and cleaned it haha. Didnt take me too long and no I know it is safe, just gotta get some pure ammonia and I can restart the cycling. I moved the plants around a bit and trimmed the longer hornwort into 2 so I have more hornwort stalks in there ( just shorter .. for now) sicne the others were growing to the surface. I also moved the java fern more to the front . Anyways, here it is ( still looking into a bg. i have a printed picture behind it now just to see if I like the back ground idea. so far its okay, but I dont like that I cant see the plants as well. )

Photo has no back ground btw haha








I feel liek it looks a bit more .. sparse than before I think I might go buy a few more plants. maybe a val and water wisteria ( really want anubias but my store doesnt have it >: ( ( I cant order online)


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## Foisair (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm currently using Dr Tims Ammonium chloride to cycle my 10 gal. (http://www.amazon.com/DrTims-Aquati...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1333591202&sr=1-1) So far I've had no issues. It's a decent price and it's pure. It's also much more concentrated so the bottle is much smaller and takes up less space. I believe it was a drop or two per gallon to get the ammonia to 2ppm. I know it was a pain for me to try to find pure cleaning ammonia so I was really excited when someone gave me this link.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

@Cinderwolf, I love the new setup almost more than the first! I'm sorry you're going through this pain in the hiney, but I totally understand needing that peace of mind.

@Foisair, I used Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride for the cycling of my newest tank. I liked the confidence I had that it was made for aquarium use and had no hidden additives.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Looks good cinder! Just note that vals need very bright lighting, in case you have a more medium-low light setup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

It looks really nice! I'm sorry you had to go through all that. X_X

I LOVE my vals! I hope your lights can handle them


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I thought jungle cal was low light? Everyone that has it said if does does fine in low light...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I find it okay in medium light... I also have a plant meant for strong lights in a low light tank no problem xD It may also depend on some other factors maybe?


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

I have 8 watts ( highest what I could find) with 18,000 Kelvin . think that would be good? it also gets a lot of natural sunlight since the room has a huge skylight.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

the val in my local petsmart is the corkscrew stuff


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm assuming you have a compact flourescent bulb?

If so a standard approximation is that they're equivalent to an incandescent of four times the wattage, so that would be about 32-watts, or about 5.33...-watts/gallon. That would be high lighting.

18,000K is also really high for a planted tank: you're aiming for around 6500K, which best mimics noontime sunlight. Though I've heard you can also get away with as low as 5500K. The higher the Kelvin-rating (color temperature), the "bluer" the light; the lower, the "redder" the light. Think ROY G BIV. Plants, from my understanding, tend to like a fairly even balance of red and blue, and 18,000K is pretty far into the BIV portion of the spectrum.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Wow I never knew any of that. I just got the bulb that said " good for planted aquariums" lol it seems to grow the horn wort pretty well. 
And I never knew about that watt thing either


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Oh and it isnt compact florescent I dont think. jsut normal old florescent ( its a tube)


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Oh well, I will just leave it, since they get a lot of natural sunlight as well they will be fine. I will just stick with low light plants.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

That's really high light. Noah may be right about it being too much, I haven't looked at the Kelvin chart in forever... A Val could work, it's the cheapest plant at pet smart might as well try. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I personally never heard of the kelvin chart :roll:


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Lol, if you google it Sena it's the most complicated thing to read.'xD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

good to know xDD


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

With the tube lights you can disregard the wattage conversion: 18-watts with them is 18-watts from my understanding. That would give you 3-watts/gallon which, I believe is in the moderate range -- someone, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

18,000K is still much too high a color temp for a planted tank: it's more in the range of a marine tank (10,000K-20,000K from what I've read). That won't give your plants enough light from the lower spectrum, specifically red. You can leave it for now if you'd like, or you can just try using the natural sunlight for now, but in the long run you'll be best off finding a bulb of approximately 6500K.

You said it claims it is good for planted aquariums...are you _positive_ that it says it's an 18,000K bulb? I have to ask because that part's confusing me.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah that is way too high! Plants will mostly use red but still need the other colors. You wont be getting very good growth as you want reds to be the highest color in the bulb. 

The watts per gallon rule is not accurate, it s to a degree but you need to measure in the lumen out put of the bulb not the watts.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Olympia said:


> That's really high light. Noah may be right about it being too much, I haven't looked at the Kelvin chart in forever... A Val could work, it's the cheapest plant at pet smart might as well try.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah well, I cant afford a new one and It think it has been too long to return it so I will just keep it and see what happens.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A1580-Aqua-Glo-Fluorescent-12-Inch/dp/B0002AQLQU I am pretty sure that is the bulb I have. ( I dont have the box anymore. )


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

Plants prefer a fairly even balance of blue and red light -- they use both, but for different aspects of growth: red for growing taller, and blue for growing lusher, basically.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and think that most flourescent bulbs someone might buy will be at least adequate when it comes to intensity, if not too intense in some cases. A quick search gives me the impression that lumens is only a piece of it all that needs to be considered in addition to other factors (namely, Kelvin-rating). I'm not sure exactly what you're saying as far as watts versus lumens, kfryman, when it comes to measuring, but with this particular bulb neither one of those really matter for this tank.

Cinderwolf, that's your choice, but I honestly think you're better off going to a hardware store and seeing if you can find a more appropriate bulb for your tank. The most important thing is getting the Kelvin-rating more in line with what your plants need. A hardware store will have tube fluorescents for much less than one made specifically for aquariums, and will work just as well. But that's my two-cents, so feel free to take it as you wish.

Also, realizing that I got the wattage in my previous post wrong: not sure why I was thinking 18-watts...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have one of the aqua-glo bulbs, and it works nice. I never had a problem with it, it didn't over heat my water as much as the ones that came with the hoods,and overall gave the tank a nice natural color, and my plants did fine with it.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Well I figure if I already have it I might as well give it a shot and see if it works even a bit. Its not lie I want the plants to grow crazy amount, just well not die would be nice , and i already know the horn wort grows crazy under this light ( since it already did ) And ya I can probably find a decent prices bulb but that doesnt change the fact that the money I put toward this one ( it cost around 15 dollars) would be going to waste. Thanks for your guys help though, I will keep it in mind next time I need a bulb, but for now I cant put more money into it.


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

Fair enough.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

NoahG said:


> Fair enough.


ya, if I could find the box it came in I could return it but I appear to have thrown it out . Dumb me haha I keep everything cept the thing I need.


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## NoahG (Oct 24, 2011)

Haha, that's usually the way it seems to go.

If Sena had some luck with the bulb (I could admittedly only speak to what's recommended as I don't know from reading or personal experience how such a high Kelvin-rating might affect plants) then I imagine you won't have your plants dying off on you or anything, so you won't have optimal growth (because your plants will be receiving more blue than red light), but shouldn't have die-offs either. So about what you're saying you want if I'm understanding correctly?

If when it comes time to replacing the bulb and you want to stick with a Hagen aquarium bulb, it looks as though the Life-Glo might be a good route to consider. It's a little high as far as Kelvins go, but not too far off at 6700K. Or, as said, you could find something comparable at a hardware/home improvement store for a bit less.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

NoahG said:


> Haha, that's usually the way it seems to go.
> 
> If Sena had some luck with the bulb (I could admittedly only speak to what's recommended as I don't know from reading or personal experience how such a high Kelvin-rating might affect plants) then I imagine you won't have your plants dying off on you or anything, so you won't have optimal growth (because your plants will be receiving more blue than red light), but shouldn't have die-offs either. So about what you're saying you want if I'm understanding correctly?
> 
> If when it comes time to replacing the bulb and you want to stick with a Hagen aquarium bulb, it looks as though the Life-Glo might be a good route to consider. It's a little high as far as Kelvins go, but not too far off at 6700K. Or, as said, you could find something comparable at a hardware/home improvement store for a bit less.


 Yea, I figure they would get at least some red light from the natural sunlight they are getting so I wasn't too worried. Maybe this will prevent my hornwort from taking over the tank haha. And yes, next time i needa bulb i will definitly get a more appropriate one haha


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I am not sure, but does the tank size matter towards how high the kelvin is?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

No.. Tank size relates to the wattage, 1watt per gallon is "low light". Taller tanks also need stronger light. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

ahh ok =D


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

So I am having some trouble finding pure ammonia. And I am starting to think of adding more plants and just doing a fish in cycle? My boy has been tail biting I think and I think the bigger tank will help him. 

Is it possible.. I mean, I would be testing the water anyways right? might as well have the fish in it?


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## jase (Apr 19, 2012)

Cinderwolf said:


> So I am having some trouble finding pure ammonia. And I am starting to think of adding more plants and just doing a fish in cycle? My boy has been tail biting I think and I think the bigger tank will help him.
> 
> Is it possible.. I mean, I would be testing the water anyways right? might as well have the fish in it?


yep, a bigger tank will help with the recovering process.
A fish in cycle would be more difficult, but if you keep up with constant water change and testing, you should be sweet.
- except that most people don't keep up with that -.-
And the best place to treat a fish would be a bare bottom tank with least decoration as possbile.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

I think that would work, it would just require constant testing & being prepared to do water changes. I guess my concern would be keeping conditions right so he doesn't get fin rot if he's been tail biting? I don't know enough to speak to the situation.

You could always use fish food.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Well I wasnt treatign him for it ( since it isnt infected and it grows ack fast he jsut bites it again) so I was jsut thinkign the bigger tank he woudlnt bite any more


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> I think that would work, it would just require constant testing & being prepared to do water changes. I guess my concern would be keeping conditions right so he doesn't get fin rot if he's been tail biting? I don't know enough to speak to the situation.
> 
> You could always use fish food.


Well he got over fin rot a few months ago adn he lets his fins grow back then he either is flaring and splitting them ( it is always the thin new growth that rips) or he is biting. And I heard fish food is really messy and innaccurate?

Also I foudn a snail in my tank, dont wan tot feed the snails and cause a boom.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I did fish-in cycle in my 5 gallon with Mr. Fish and he was fine. At times I had to change the water 4 times a week (50-75%), so just be ready for that. And, it'll probably take a long time to cycle because of all of those water changes unless you can seed it really well from another tank. It took 8 weeks for my 5 gallon to cycle with no seeding.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I used fish food. Almost always. I do gravel siphoning every few days to get the gunk up. so yeah it is messy xD 

Or fish in... Give bettas credit! They are hardy. As you've seen, some are in bowls or uncycled 3 gallons.. some people don't cycle their 5 gallons... if given the right water changes, gravel siphoning and all it shouldn't harm the fish or the cycle.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Ya I am really considering the fishin. Cause I really dont want to cause a snail boom ( which fish food definitely would and raw shrimp probably would) 

I don't much mind the multiple changes really. As it is now I have to change his 2 gal anyways, and siphonign is super easy. Then he gets his big tank. Unfortunately I don't have anything to seed with : P .

At any rate, I am goignt o do more research first.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Okay So I decided to go ahead with the fish-in cycle. I will do a big water change tomorrow ( to clean up plant stuff and snail poop) then do a baseline test for comparing. Then I will move his heater over and get the big tank up to temp ( he will have to deal with the cooler water for a little while) then acclimate him and let him loose  

I am pretty excited, to be honest.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Good luck!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Good luck!


Thanks! I will keep this thread updated with water parameters and fishy updates  I will take picture tomorrow of him in the tank : ) I hope he likes it! He is one spoiled fish I must say!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

awesome! good luck!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

He is in! I got a video and a fe photos I ill upload soon!


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Swim little fishy!!!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Without further ado! 




































































Enjoy. He looks so gorgeous under the tank light! Speakign of light, the 18000 K thing doesnt appear to be detering growth, most of the java ferns have sprouted new leaves and all the horn wort is getting tall. The red plants grew a bunch of new leave, but the new growth is all green : P I am thinking of getting a nana plant anubias


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

nice set up! and he looks so excited for his tank


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> nice set up! and he looks so excited for his tank


Haha, I tihnk he is, he was just trolling around the surface for a while but no he is exploring the plants and stuff  Once the cycle is done I want to get some shrimp


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## SaylorKennedy (Aug 11, 2009)

Nice tank. I like the color of that sand substrate!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

SaylorKennedy said:


> Nice tank. I like the color of that sand substrate!


Me too! It is jsut play sand , I was glad it was nice and dark


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

play sand is so much cheaper than "aquarium" sand lol. I saw a small bag of regular sand for aquariums, for like...40.00 :shock:


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Seriously... I paid way too much money for my black sand cap. Wish I'd seen that dark play sand!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Yea 55 pounds for 7 bucks, Quickrete brand.

If no one saw in the ER section.. Bennie has ripped his fins to shreds somehow! I will post a video to compare to the one I posted already... this one is about 7 hours after that first one.. So this si happening fast.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

any plants, strong filters, caves....he could've torn himself on? Or is he a class A tail biter?


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

well , the rock is smooth, the filter is baffles and all the plants are real.. so I guess.. tail biter! GAH I have a problem child...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: try different things! if he is new in there, he may tail bite... some do! Try...different rooms, different lighting, a toy, a mirror to flare once a day for a few minutes....


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> :lol: try different things! if he is new in there, he may tail bite... some do! Try...different rooms, different lighting, a toy, a mirror to flare once a day for a few minutes....


He has longggg had tail issues. He had fin rot ( that quite frankly could have been brought about by biting but I am not sure.) When that finally cleared he started slowly growing back his fins then they would constantly split and tear ( which thinking about it he was probably biting it. Then it would partially grow back ( clear skin) then the next night the new growth would be gone. He had one split that was half grown in when I transferred him to the new tank. Then i guess the move stressed him and he went crazy tearing it. .. It looks cleaner tongiht, not discoloured. I am hoping he will calm down a bit.. And eventually not bite at all..

I cant change rooms since this is the only place I can put the tank, I tried with the lights off for a while, he acted the same so I put them back on. I have yet to see him bite it, and I have been watching him all day... he is just swimming around exploring. 

I will just keep his water clean and hope he cuts it out and heals up. 

Really he is a crown tail and I haven't seen his crowntail since december! Rotten animal. lol


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

I am going to go to the dollar store and the pet store tonight and find some toys for him, gonna try some ping pong balls and maybe one of those floating mirrors( though I play with him with a mirror often , to stretch him out lol Also gonna grab a few new plants, but thye need to be QT so he wont get them yet.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Aww...too bad. I feel your pain. Tail biting can be so frusturating. I had a rescue that was looking oh so good...tail growing back beautifully. Then I think he decided he liked it better short and I couldn't ever get him to stop after that. I also had one that would do it intermittently (I'm not sure why as he lived a very low stress life). The females are so much easier


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

One of several reasons I think I prefer the plakats, but then I'll see a stunning halfmoon and think I might be willing to risk it.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Okay tested the water yesterday 
Ammonia was somewhere in between 0 and .25 ( I have a reallly hard time telling the colours apart in the api : P ) So I did a 2 gal change Nitrite was somewhere between 0 and. 25 didnt test nitrate. 

His fins seem to be healing up a bit. which is good. Gettign quite a bit of algae on the decoration and soem on the tank sides. I also just boguht a bunch of Wistera ( gosh this plant is gorgeous.) And 2 bunches of corkscrew val ( which had lie 4 plants each. They are in qt now, but soon I will put thme in. Wanted the val for the back, to give soem hight, an the wisteria I will just place around as accents. still trying to find the perfect plant set up.. cant get it how I like it : P


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Oh, I'm looking at those two plants for my 29 gallon. I'm lookin' for the most plant bang for my buck. You'll have to post some updated pics.

So glad your little guy is starting to heal up!


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Cinderwolf said:


> Okay tested the water yesterday
> Ammonia was somewhere in between 0 and .25 ( I have a reallly hard time telling the colours apart in the api : P ) So I did a 2 gal change Nitrite was somewhere between 0 and. 25 didnt test nitrate.
> 
> His fins seem to be healing up a bit. which is good. Gettign quite a bit of algae on the decoration and soem on the tank sides. I also just boguht a bunch of Wistera ( gosh this plant is gorgeous.) And 2 bunches of corkscrew val ( which had lie 4 plants each. They are in qt now, but soon I will put thme in. Wanted the val for the back, to give soem hight, an the wisteria I will just place around as accents. still trying to find the perfect plant set up.. cant get it how I like it : P


Wow! It's cycling fast. Fantastic for you.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Ya, I was surprise that nitrites were there too! I was so surprised I double and triple checked LOL jsut kept comparing like " Whattttt" Maybe cause I did that false start with ammonia ( even though I thoroughly rinsed it all) maybe a bit of bacteria had grown that didnt die when I rinsed.. Or maybe its cause I had a bit of a snail infestation ( still yanking the butts outta there) Oh well, cant complain haha.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Oh, I'm looking at those two plants for my 29 gallon. I'm lookin' for the most plant bang for my buck. You'll have to post some updated pics.
> 
> So glad your little guy is starting to heal up!


Yea I will definitely take more photos, but the plants are in qt for a week anyway haha. 

Yea, his fins aren't as red looking now, so I guess he has spotted nipping. here's hoping they start growing back now!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

One of my bettas bit his tail and they were a bloody mess - literally :roll:hopefully your boy stops!!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> One of my bettas bit his tail and they were a bloody mess - literally :roll:hopefully your boy stops!!


Gosh, my too. Havent seen his Crown tail since I got him.. I bet he would be gorgeous!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Hopefully none of my new ones are tail biters although I suspect the easily stressed boy (The HM :roll who has a few bits here and there missing might be xD

I wish ya luck with yours


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Ha ha, thanks. I am hoping once he has settles in this big tank he will cut it out.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Sometimes they do. That's all lil' Shiloh needed! Some fish are so picky :roll:


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Haha i hope so, cause gosh he woudl be gorgeous with super long rays!

Anyways, tested the water again

Ammonia was somewhere between 0 and 0.25. Gonna test again tomorrow( jsut ammonia) to see if I shoudl do a change. Degfinitly wasnt 0.25 though, so no worries.
nitrite was 0.25 for sure
Nitrate was 0


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Nogt bad  good luck with everything =D especially with his purty tail lol.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

RESCAPE

I got wisteria and soem vals and sooo I rescaped it. I took all the plants out and even scrubed the algae off the rock ( it was bothering me) . and I moved soem rocks around and such. I like it wayyy better 

Here it is!









I tested the water too. I am a bit confused.
2 days ago, everything tested for 0. and now today, still zero. no water changes since about 4 days ago) I am confused by this... the fish is in there.. there should be ammonia. Could it be because of the plants?

One more question. My horn wort is yellowing. I went to grab soem FLourish fertilizer for it.. but I was reading the label and it has a tiny bit of copper in it... It was a VERY small amount. and I woudl only need about 0.5 ml. BUT I want to get snails when it is cycled.. copper is bad for them.. 
Has anyone used Seachem Flourish with snails and shrimp? I dont want to kill them.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

I would tend to think that with all of your plants that they're eating the ammonia. But I'm no expert.

As for the Flourish use with shrimp, I too have shrimp but the fertilizer I use doesn't seem to have any copper.

I wondered about it and did some Google searching. It seems that there are mixed opinions, but that it's fairly safe if not overdosed. I did, however, see several comments that it might not be safe once you get down to the bottom of the bottle where concentrations might be higher.


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## jase (Apr 19, 2012)

Cinderwolf said:


> RESCAPE
> 
> I went to grab soem FLourish fertilizer for it.. but I was reading the label and it has a tiny bit of copper in it... It was a VERY small amount. and I woudl only need about 0.5 ml. BUT I want to get snails when it is cycled.. copper is bad for them..
> Has anyone used Seachem Flourish with snails and shrimp? I dont want to kill them.


depend on the amount lol, there will always be a trace amount of copper in natural rivers but indeed very very small amount of it.
just don't over dose and do water changes you will be fine.


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

I use Seachem Flourish with shrimp and snails and I've never had any problems. I dose very small and only do it once every week or two (if that), though.

As for your 0 parameters, definitely because of the plants.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

I guess He is happy. He usually blows bubbles all over, scattered around the tank. But he organized his bubble . He threw up a nice big bubble nest over night : ) I'll take a picture later haha.


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Well, tested today, still zero across the board. 

Thinkign that it woudl be safe to maybe add soem ghost shrimpies : )


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Yay for shrimps!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I have what people would call a grossly over stocked 1 gallon tank with plants ( not going to go there  too many haters ). Everything is always at 0. I believe the plants are sucking up the ammonia, especially since you have some fast growers there. I also have around 8 shrimps in there (6 cherries and 2 ghost) they are doing very well, so shrimps...go for it!


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## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Just looking up their care.. and tryign to get my temp stable. heater is on lowest setting and its still is around 83 .. was up to 85 the other day o.o I thinkt he light is heating it up unfortunatley.


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