# Help!



## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

I introduced the male and female betta to each other a bit less than an hour ago. She keeps running from him which I know is normal but now she’s laying at the bottom on the tank next to the hide and breathing strangely. Is this normal? Should I take her out?


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

I’ve placed her back in the breeding box so she’s still in the tank, just away from the male. She seems to be fine now and even ate some food. Should I wait a bit and try again?


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

She looks beaten. This happens if the male is impatient about breeding and the female isn't cooperating. Or vice versa. Remember to condition the pair and to float the female in a clear container until the male builds a nest and is in breeding mode.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. said:


> She looks beaten. This happens if the male is impatient about breeding and the female isn't cooperating. Or vice versa. Remember to condition the pair and to float the female in a clear container until the male builds a nest and is in breeding mode.


They've already been conditioned and she was in the clear container overnight (All together it was about 16 hours).
He'd already made a bubble nest too. She floating in the container again and seems to be fine. Should I wait some more or just put them back in their tanks and try another time?


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

Move them back into their tanks and recondition. You may have to leave the female in the clear container longer, until she seems attentive to the male and develops vertical stripes.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. said:


> Move them back into their tanks and recondition. You may have to leave the female in the clear container longer, until she seems attentive to the male and develops vertical stripes.


I’ve got him separated and she’s just swimming freely around the breeding tank right now. She’s such a dark colour I’m not sure if I’ll be able to see the breeding stripes but I’ll definitely wait longer


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Breeding bars are light colored thus more visible on dark colored females. Yes the female looks beaten but that's normal - to a point. I agree that you should postpone at least 3-5 days. 

BTW, how big is the tank and the hideout - it looks very big in the picture. You don't want eggs slipping under or into crevices where your breeders can't retrieve them.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> Breeding bars are light colored thus more visible on dark colored females. Yes the female looks beaten but that's normal - to a point. I agree that you should postpone at least 3-5 days.
> 
> BTW, how big is the tank and the hideout - it looks very big in the picture. You don't want eggs slipping under or into crevices where your breeders can't retrieve them.


It’s a 10 gal tank and they’re giant bettas and the hide is pretty small. They can just fit in it. I was going to remove hide once the eggs were made I just wanted to make sure that the female had someplace good to hide!


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Tara18 said:


> It’s a 10 gal tank and they’re giant bettas and the hide is pretty small. They can just fit in it. I was going to remove hide once the eggs were made I just wanted to make sure that the female had someplace good to hide!


Male is trying to rebuild his bubble nest inside the breeding box and the female keeps swimming up to him and flaring. Should I try again tonight or just wait?


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

This is how they're interacting rn


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

They look interested. 
You judge whether the female can take more beatings or not (we're not there to see). 

Try releasing just before dark. Hopefully it will be safer for the female - if she is willing to spawn in the morning


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> They look interested.
> You judge whether the female can take more beatings or not (we're not there to see).
> 
> Try releasing just before dark. Hopefully it will be safer for the female - if she is willing to spawn in the morning


Okay I’ll try that! She definitely is seeming more confident and she seems fine. If she gets exhausted like before I’ll remove her again and wait a few days


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

How do you know when enough is enough for the female? Or if the male is being TOO rough?


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

Don't let her get beaten, some aggression is normal.


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Hi @Tara18 
Sometimes virgin males are too excited and inexperienced. (I have no idea if these guys are virgins) after having a similar situation myself, I removed the male and female And made sure he couldn’t see the female from his main tank at all. After 5 days of complete isolation I tried again and he happened to be less aggressive with the female after that. I also made sure I had IAL pinned to the bottom the second time around for the female to hide under and it worked out better. I only let him have the tank to himself for an hour and then floated her for 1 hour and released her right before I went to bed. When I woke up they were spawning. Same with my other pair, released together at night and found spawning in the morning. It might be worth a shot! I’m no professional breeder but I hope something I said helps or sparks an idea. 🤘🏻


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

X skully X said:


> Hi @Tara18
> Sometimes virgin males are too excited and inexperienced. (I have no idea if these guys are virgins) after having a similar situation myself, I removed the male and female And made sure he couldn’t see the female from his main tank at all. After 5 days of complete isolation I tried again and he happened to be less aggressive with the female after that. I also made sure I had IAL pinned to the bottom the second time around for the female to hide under and it worked out better. I only let him have the tank to himself for an hour and then floated her for 1 hour and released her right before I went to bed. When I woke up they were spawning. Same with my other pair, released together at night and found spawning in the morning. It might be worth a shot! I’m no professional breeder but I hope something I said helps or sparks an idea. 🤘🏻


Yeah they're a virgin pair. I think he is definitely too excited. 
I tried again but he was just all over the place and nipping at her a little too much for my liking... She just ended up hiding for over an hour. I decided it'd be best to give her a break and try another day. 
I have him floating this time because she seems to prefer to be able to explore the tank by herself. She's such a tease though.. of course when they're separated she's all interested in him! As soon as they're together she's like NOPE 🤦‍♀️
I'll leave them separated like this tonight and then see tomorrow how they're acting. 
If they're still not interested I'll place them back into their tanks and isolate them like you said.

I am totally open to ideas! Anything I can try that may work is perfect


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

For sure! At least they aren’t lazy!


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

X skully X said:


> For sure! At least they aren’t lazy!


hahaha we're having the opposite problems with giants here! 😂


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Went to check on the fish and... well... the male SOMEHOW got out of the breeding box and started chasing her again... poor girl... This time I'm for sure putting the lid on the box. I didn't think he'd literally jump out into the tank...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Some males are just plain vicious and will readily kill females. IME fastest to do damage for a regular - one day, giant - less than half an hour. . . . As long as male is attacking the fins, female should be able to endure it. But if male attacks bottom of midsection, immediately separate because that's what quickly kills them. 

Some males sometimes behave differently during each breeding. Make sure to always closely watch them at least for the first half an hour - to determine if you could relax or stay alert (male vicious or not). 

Releasing female just before dark IMO helps because they become inactive but can still sense each other. But it doesn't make that much difference for virgins because they usually need 3 days of courtship. But veterans usually spawn the following morning.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> Some males are just plain vicious and will readily kill females. IME fastest to do damage for a regular - one day, giant - less than half an hour. . . . As long as male is attacking the fins, female should be able to endure it. But if male attacks bottom of midsection, immediately separate because that's what quickly kills them.
> 
> Some males sometimes behave differently during each breeding. Make sure to always closely watch them at least for the first half an hour - to determine if you could relax or stay alert (male vicious or not).
> 
> Releasing female just before dark IMO helps because they become inactive but can still sense each other. But it doesn't make that much difference for virgins because they usually need 3 days of courtship. But veterans usually spawn the following morning.


Thank you! So for the courtship would I leave them together for a few days? Or one of them in the breeding box and I just periodically release them?
I'm just worried about stressing the female too much or something bad happening when I'm not around to supervise.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Leave them together. 

If you want to "contain" the female (jar and release), use a container with holes so both can sense each other. And don't net, but simply scoop female. I have never tried this and have never heard people using this method. But it is doable if you're willing to put in extra effort.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> Leave them together.
> 
> If you want to "contain" the female (jar and release), use a container with holes so both can sense each other. And don't net, but simply scoop female. I have never tried this and have never heard people using this method. But it is doable if you're willing to put in extra effort.


yeah I've been using this and its been floating in the tank


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That should work.

You'd be surprised how much beating a female can take. Personally, as long as the female can rest undisturbed for an unlimited time, I let them be. And as long as the female can swim and eat normally. . . . . You need to learn to assess whether the female will be able to recover after spawning.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> That should work.
> 
> You'd be surprised how much beating a female can take. Personally, as long as the female can rest undisturbed for an unlimited time, I let them be. And as long as the female can swim and eat normally. . . . . You need to learn to assess whether the female will be able to recover after spawning.


Yeah since this is my first time breeding I'm a little more on edge since I'm not 100 percent sure exactly what to expect no matter how much research I've done!

Thanks for your help!


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Just a little update! I woke up this morning to them trying to spawn but they suck at it... hopefully in time they’ll finally produce some eggs 😂


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

That is called false spawning, give them some time. They'll figure it out. All bettas will have false spawning before actually breeding, it takes longer in virgins.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Okay so they’ve made eggs but I’m pretty sure the male is eating the eggs.... what should I do?


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

You could put the eggs in a shallow dish and float them in the tank to keep them warm. He could be eating them because they are not fertilized or because he feels stressed. The less you peek in the better, but if you feel like you need to intervene before he eats them all you’ll have to hatch them without his help. I’ve never had to do that before so I’m not confident giving advise about how to accomplish that.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

I’ll let them be without watching and cover the tank. Thankfully some fell out of his reach so he didn’t eat them. I’ll take those out later and put them in a shallow dish. Thanks


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

Congrats!


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

And they’re still going at it 😂 hopefully they’ll hatch even though the male isn’t looking after them


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

First few embraces, usually do not release eggs. Especially females that are too fat have trouble releasing them. But after a while it will rain eggs.

First try is more about knowing your pair's behavior - good parent, egg eater, etc. There's not much you can do but hope they leave you some.

Egg eating males will have fat bellies when the deed is done. You could either give the male a chance and see if he is really an egg eater or felt disturbed OR you could remove eggs into a clean dish with clean new water. Fertilized eggs will hatch without the male caring for them. But it's a race against fungus/mold.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

The male now seems to be placing the eggs in the nest! Yay!
How many times will the female release eggs before she is done? It seems never ending 😅


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You will know when she is done when she stays away from the nest and or does not want to embrace. Male usually will begin attacking her.

Each female and during each spawn is different. Some are done sooner than others. I once had a pair that "failed" to spawn. Embraces went on till dark and eventually the female released unfertilized eggs.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Okay awesome! She’s really going for it 😂
Look at all those eggs!


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

Thats so great! It might rain eggs for a while, It seems to take forever for them to be done. And the female is actually always producing more eggs when shes in breeding mode! When shes done she will try to get away from the male, thats your cue to get her out.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

She went and just chilled at the other end of the tank and didn't seem interested in breeding anymore so I moved her back to her tank.
Male is hanging out under his bubble nest I'm just praying he won't munch on them until they hatch!

Thank you all for your help and reassurance. You helped me get through this! 😂


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Hi everyone! I need help again...

I'm worried that something happened to the eggs and/or fry.
I'm not sure whether or not I can see fry in the bubble nest but I haven't seen any falling out of the nest.
I also don't see any eggs anymore.

I'm not sure what to do? Maybe the male decided to go back and eat them? I'm really worried!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry. Nothing you can do for now but hope for the best. If you do end up with no fry, you can artificially hatch eggs next time.


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

I'll wait a few more days...
It's disappointing but also a good learning experience.


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## slam (Jul 16, 2020)

Hi, I am guessing you didn’t get any fry as your last post was 3 days ago. Don’t give up. Now that they are no longer virgins, they’ll know what to do the next time. And if you think he is an egg eater, you can try pulling him out after he’s finished filling up the nest with the eggs. Some of the eggs will fall off and won’t hatch because he’s not there to pick them up, but at least you will have some eggs that will hatch in 2 days. It’s better to have some fry than no fry. Good luck!


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## Tara18 (Jul 26, 2020)

Thank you! I think one might have hatched as I’ve seen a little fry in the tank but they’re really good at hiding...


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