# can I keep 5 female betas with gourami ??



## miogpsrocks (Nov 14, 2015)

Can I keep 5 female beta tank with a gourami in a community 75 tank setting?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Not the best idea. Dwarf Gourami's are the ones you want to worry about, some Gourami's (actually most others) are fairly peaceful as far as Anabantids go, but Dwarf Gouramis are extremely territorial and defensive and just all around mean. Likely you'll come home to five dead Betta's. I won't go into the implications with having a Sorority in the first place unless you want to hear it, most of us don't recommend it no matter how big the tank, it's too stressful for the keeper and the fish as well.


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## miogpsrocks (Nov 14, 2015)

lilnaugrim said:


> Not the best idea. Dwarf Gourami's are the ones you want to worry about, some Gourami's (actually most others) are fairly peaceful as far as Anabantids go, but Dwarf Gouramis are extremely territorial and defensive and just all around mean. Likely you'll come home to five dead Betta's. I won't go into the implications with having a Sorority in the first place unless you want to hear it, most of us don't recommend it no matter how big the tank, it's too stressful for the keeper and the fish as well.


Hello. 

I am new to these type of fish, please tell me the implications of having a female betas harem or whatever its called? 

I read that it was ok to have like 1 or 5 and more but nothing between 2-4 because you had to spread out the aggression or something. 

I read that keeping a male beta with a Dwarf Gourami was a bad idea but you are saying that the female betas are just as bad as the males as far as fighting? 

Its funny that the Dwarf are worse then the normal ones. 

The website " www.liveaquaria.com" list the dwarf Gourami as " peaceful" 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+882+981&pcatid=981

Whereas the normal gourami as Semi-aggressive
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+882+973&pcatid=973

You are saying that its the opposite?

Please let me know. So you can't keep a beta in community tank( male or female???) 

Please let me know

THanks.


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

miogpsrocks said:


> Hello.
> 
> I am new to these type of fish, please tell me the implications of having a female betas harem or whatever its called?
> 
> ...



for your first question, please read the thread at the top of this section about sororities, it'll answer a lot of your questions. read the WHOLE thread. 

Yes females are just as aggressive as males, sometimes moreso. For example I have a female that can't even be kept with snails. 

They can be kept in a community tank, depending on the fish's personality. They can't be kept with every type of fish in a community tank though, so you must do your research. Peaceful bottom dwellers like cories or otocinclus are usually a good match for bettas, but again, depends on their personality.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Those sites like liveaquaria and bluegrassaquatics and others like it are nice reference points but they aren't always very accurate. Double check on various fish profile sites like ours (TropicalFishKeeping is the parent site to this one and has fish profiles), seriouslyfish.com is another great one and other forums sometimes have fish profiles as well. But much like Betta's, Dwarf Gourami's all have their own personalities and so it's a gamble. You might get one that loves all fish or you might get one that kills everything in it's tank, I've had both before at various times and then of course you get some that are in the middle; maybe it doesn't like barbs but doesn't mind Tetras, it's all luck of the draw.

As Strawberry pointed out, it's best to keep Dwarf Gourami as how you'd keep a male Betta; single Gourami and with bottom dwellers or mid-bottom dwellers like Glowlight Tetras. Don't keep barbs since barbs are super nippy and will nip the feelers and fins off your Gourami!! Always look at various sites and take information from all of them, don't just rely on one site to give all the information since experiences will vary.

I'm in no way trying to discourage you from keeping either a Betta or a Dwarf Gourami, just letting you know that sometimes it doesn't always go like you plan! There are things you can do to help keep aggression down though! Your tank size is already amazing for these fish but the issue with that is that you'll need lots of plants for your fish to feel safe! Silk plants are the best for both Betta and Gourami as they have delicate fins (or you can go with live plants if you like!), plastic plants will rip fins. But having a really densely packed tank will help minimize Gourami or Betta aggression against other fish :-D

And yes, as for sororities (harem is a single male with multiple females), it's a hot topic sometimes. But yes, females can be just as aggressive as males and if you don't plant/decorate your tank properly for them and do all the measures you can do to reduce stress, you can end up with a tank full of dead fish from disease outbreak. In the wild, yes, Bettas will run into each other but usually the subdominant one will run off if it goes into a dominant Bettas territory. They mostly keep to themselves and have giant Rice Paddie fields to swim off into, they aren't confined to a tank. Though yes, 75 gallons is fantastic, it's still a limited space comparatively. 

If you don't quarantine ALL fish for at least a month, you can end up introducing disease into your delicate tank. Having a sorority is a VERY delicate act and one minor thing wrong and it will all come crashing down. I'm speaking not only from my own experience but from the many sororities that I've seen build through this forum and fall any time after 6 months to a year. Bettas on average live about 2 years but can easily live to 4-5 (on rare occasions up to 6-7) if properly taken care of. In a sorority, life span is cut to about a year for 'old age' deaths. That's half the time they're supposed to live! It's like stressing out a human so much that they die at 50 instead of 100, it does happen and it's very sad. So, if you like doing delicate balancing acts then you can try it, again, I'm not really trying to sway you into not doing it but I am showing you the complications of having a sorority and giving a warning is all. If you want to do it, that's your business but definitely read everything you absolutely can, research everything! We can answer a lot of questions here for you of course and I will teach how to keep one if you want but read all the threads about sororities here first so we don't have to repeat ourselves so much ^_^

And sorry for the big wall of text!!


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

I would not suggest it. My mom has 4 gouramis in a 36 gallon tank plus a big pleco and according to the women that she got them from said the gourami's killed an angelfish she tried putting in there.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Maybe one betta or one gourami might do well in a community tank that size. My tanks are small (10 gallon and 5.5 gallon), so my bettas (male and female) don't do well with tank mates. My female killed two shrimp in a 20 minute black out time when I added them to her tank. My male was in a 10 gallon, and he waited 6 months before he started killing things.


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## miogpsrocks (Nov 14, 2015)

lilnaugrim said:


> Those sites like liveaquaria and bluegrassaquatics and others like it are nice reference points but they aren't always very accurate. Double check on various fish profile sites like ours (TropicalFishKeeping is the parent site to this one and has fish profiles), seriouslyfish.com is another great one and other forums sometimes have fish profiles as well. But much like Betta's, Dwarf Gourami's all have their own personalities and so it's a gamble. You might get one that loves all fish or you might get one that kills everything in it's tank, I've had both before at various times and then of course you get some that are in the middle; maybe it doesn't like barbs but doesn't mind Tetras, it's all luck of the draw.
> 
> As Strawberry pointed out, it's best to keep Dwarf Gourami as how you'd keep a male Betta; single Gourami and with bottom dwellers or mid-bottom dwellers like Glowlight Tetras. Don't keep barbs since barbs are super nippy and will nip the feelers and fins off your Gourami!! Always look at various sites and take information from all of them, don't just rely on one site to give all the information since experiences will vary.
> 
> ...














Thank you for your helpful comments. I am trying to creature a wonderful fish tank and rescue those beta from those horrible little cups they use at the petstore rather and not trying to create a roman gladiator death match. 

So even in successful tanks, the old age is only 1 year? It does not sound like there is anyway to do this right? 

I know with cats, I have 2 very friendly cats that are both very loving however if they see each other they will try to kill one another however they do exist cat colonies in which cats do get along. 

I was under the impressing if you had 1 female beta in the tank first then introduced new betas they will be fights over territory however if you introduce 5 new female betas all at the same time, there is no established territory. So they are all starting out from scratch. 

I have heard that some people have even had tanks with multiple male betas if they get are raised together since they are babies. 

My local petstore has baby betas for sale too. 

So I was thinking of getting 5 or 6 baby females betas all at once and placing them into the 75 gallon tank perhaps with a pearl Gourami( which another forum told me are peaceful variety of the Gourami) 

I look on the various website and basically some Dwarfs Gourami are aggressive and some are peaceful as well as normal Gourami being peaceful or aggressive depending on the type you get. 

Please tell me what you think about getting all the female betas as the same time as babies? Would this stand more of a chance of working or will they all be dead in under a year? 

Thanks.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> Please tell me what you think about getting all the female betas as the same time as babies? Would this stand more of a chance of working or will they all be dead in under a year?


Please tell us in a years time.

If you are going to have multiple females in the tank forget useless ornaments spend your money on plants, Silk plants while OK do nothing for water quality. You need to put in LOTS of plants, and they need to be bushy and reach the top of the water, When looking into your tank you should not be able to see the back.

This is my tank it has 1 Betta female in it and I would call this lightly planted for a sorority. Heck thats hardly enough plants for 1 Betta let alone 5


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

The problem with starting out with 5-6 baby betta girls is they are often mistaken on the genders. You could end up with several males. Once the females are mature, their personality will come out, and they may decide they will not get along with tank mates any more. Then, you're stuck with getting out the 6 quarantine tanks for all of those fish to live separately again.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Everyone brought up great points, especially about the Baby bettas. Unless you have experience in sexing baby fish, you'll likely end up with some males in there.

Yes, if you put in all five at once, they won't have territories right away but they will in time.

Yes, Pearls are much nicer. Careful the Pearl doesn't get beat up by the Betta's though. Pearls also should be in groups of at least 3 (1 male to 2 females) or more at that ratio. That way they'll also feel comfortable. Pearls will also benefit from the bushy plants more than ornaments. Mine barely go into any ornament unless it's chasing down food, otherwise, he stays around the top and picks at the plants to get the tiny infusoria off them to munch on.

A year is about average for a sorority. Some will die of bullying, some will die of stress and disease, other's may simply pass. I've seen it happen many times.

Going back to the babies. Spawns are only peaceful (sometimes) if they are kept together. Once you separate out a fish from a spawn, they will no longer be peaceful with their brothers and sisters if they are put back into the tank. So yes, if you raise up a spawn by yourself and don't separate out the males, you may be successful. But, some fish need to be separated so don't try that and expect everything to be happy happy haha. But, if you can get five females direct from a breeder where they haven't been separated up, then your chances of having success go up as well. So those baby Betta's at the store have been separated which is another reason they won't work well. They may be fine for now as babies but once maturity hits, they'll start claiming territories and fighting each other. Other's have attempted this as well.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> Yes, Pearls are much nicer. Careful the Pearl doesn't get beat up by the Betta's though. Pearls also should be in groups of at least 3 (1 male to 2 females) or more at that ratio. That way they'll also feel comfortable. Pearls will also benefit from the bushy plants more than ornaments. Mine barely go into any ornament unless it's chasing down food, otherwise, he stays around the top and picks at the plants to get the tiny infusoria off them to munch on.


I agree.

I used to keep Pearl Gouramis ( Till a pest controller killed them ) They are absolutely stunning fish in my opinion a mature male pearl is one of the most beautiful tropical fish you can get.

I had a male on his own for a while and he was ok, then I got him 2 girls, Now I would never again keep a Pearl on his own.


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## micheemak (Aug 8, 2015)

I started a femaled sorority tank in the spring; bought seven young girls, heavily planted, all of them went into the tank at the same time. They were fine, for a while. As they grew, a few of them started establishing a pecking order. One of the girls became so aggressive after a couple of months I needed to seperate her out into her own space, as she actually killed one of the other females. The tank seemed to settle down for a bit; no incidences of bullying or stressing that I could see (I work out of my house and my tank is in my office).

In the last 6 weeks, I've had to travel for work - three different trade shows, three different states, all for a week at a time. After the first show, I came back - one of the girls had died while I was gone. So - down to 4 girls. I asked hubby to keep an eye on them and if there were any signs of aggression to immediately seperate them.

After I got home from the second show, one of the females was dead. Down to 3 girls - not good. I decided to seperate them and while I was preparing temporary 1g bowls for them, the dominant betta started attacking the other two fish. It took me about 30 minutes to prepare three temporary homes and find a place to put them; in the time I did that, I lost another girl.

While at the third trade show, one of the girls that had been pretty beat up during the rumble that occurred while I was prepping new temp tanks for them died from stress. 

In less than five months, I lost five female bettas - and the majority of them in the last month. Conversely, I have over 23 males, all kept in their own seperated area, and I've lost three in the last 10 months - one that jumped through a tiny opening in his tank and suffocated, one that I tried to rescue from horrible conditions at a pet store (unfortunately, too late), and one from swim bladder disease.

As lovely as sorority tanks are, I will never put myself or my fish through anything like that ever again. Sorry for the novel, but I learned the hard way and would hate for you to do the same.


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## miogpsrocks (Nov 14, 2015)

Sadist said:


> The problem with starting out with 5-6 baby betta girls is they are often mistaken on the genders. You could end up with several males. Once the females are mature, their personality will come out, and they may decide they will not get along with tank mates any more. Then, you're stuck with getting out the 6 quarantine tanks for all of those fish to live separately again.


Even if they are aggressive, won't they be kind of use to their betta sisters and perhaps be less likely to fight?


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## miogpsrocks (Nov 14, 2015)

micheemak said:


> I started a femaled sorority tank in the spring; bought seven young girls, heavily planted, all of them went into the tank at the same time. They were fine, for a while. As they grew, a few of them started establishing a pecking order. One of the girls became so aggressive after a couple of months I needed to seperate her out into her own space, as she actually killed one of the other females. The tank seemed to settle down for a bit; no incidences of bullying or stressing that I could see (I work out of my house and my tank is in my office).
> 
> In the last 6 weeks, I've had to travel for work - three different trade shows, three different states, all for a week at a time. After the first show, I came back - one of the girls had died while I was gone. So - down to 4 girls. I asked hubby to keep an eye on them and if there were any signs of aggression to immediately seperate them.
> 
> ...


Ok, so should I just get 1 female betta or 1 male beta and keep it in the 75 gallon tank with the Gourami? 

I look up some guides which said you can't keep them together and other guide that said caution on keeping them together. 

If I get a Pearl Gourami, those are more peaceful then other types of Gourami but will I have to worry about the beta attacking the Gourami? 

Should I get a single male or female? 


Also, I have some advice for you but its too little and too late but you might want to setup a high quality time lapse Camera on your fish tank and maybe take a picture every 1 second or 1/2 second and keep it on while you are away. It will give you a fast preview of what is going on with the tank. 

I used a Garmin Virb action camera and I can actually see the snails acting like racing cars and can get a different idea of how the tank works. 

The female beta were considered baby fish or just young adult fish that you had in your tank? 

Its a shame these fish do this because people like us can't save rescue more then 1 at the pet store. 

Thanks.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Most of those baby fish at PetCo aren't from the same spawn, so no, they won't be kind, even if it is their real sisters.

If you want to keep Pearl's, go with this stocking:

1x Male Pearl Gourami
2 (or more)x Female Pearl Gourami
1x Female Betta
Some sort of schooler fish like Tetras or small Barbs (Do NOT go with Tigers or larger barbs, they are extremely nippy and will nip your Gourami's feelers and Betta's fins!!!)
Some sort of bottom fish like Kuhli loaches or Corydoras catfish or a Pleco.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that, even if you can watch your fish or video them, not all aggression can be read by us. Fish have their own language and sometimes we can read it but a lot of times, we can't which is where it becomes a surprise for us when suddenly a girl attacks another. Likely, it wasn't a single turn of events but had been growing all along, we just can't speak fish as well as they can is all. I'm not saying though, that we can't see some aggression because some of it is super easy to spot (chasing, biting, attacking, etc.) but it's not just about the physical approaches. A lot has to do with hormones/pheramones as well.


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