# Troubling pink, fleshy areas on scales. Some coloration on fin too...



## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Found Cobalt this morning with strange pink spots on his scales. It's like his blue scales have turned a pink, fleshy color (picture attached). It's been over a year since I've had him and this has never happened. I'm thinking it may be related to the mini-cycle I am finishing up since I changed my substrate and decor to sand and driftwood. Perhaps it's the change in pH from the tannins? Just performed a 50% water change...any ideas?

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gallon
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? nerite snail

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day, ~5-7 pellets each time

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 30-40%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? conditioner and sometimes flourish excel

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: close to 0 ppm, definitely not greenish color which would mean .25 ppm
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? spots of pink, fleshy scale color, some of the coloration on the top fin (see picture).
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? no notable behavioral changes
When did you start noticing the symptoms? about 1 hour ago when I checked on him this morning.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Performed a water change
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no illness besides fin rot once and general stress spots that went away.
How old is your fish (approximately)? likely around 1.5 years.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

If the scales are still there, and he is neither lethargic or gasping I do not think there is anything wrong with him. How long have you owned him? Chances are he is just changing color. If you can get him to flare, check for red or inflamed gills (ammonia burn causes this more often then not). Otherwise he is like my giant fella, and has a unique coloration. When I first saw him I thought something was wrong with his face... But it isn't!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You're feeding 10-14 pellets a day? You're feeding like 2-3x too much unless you're feeding like .5mm micro pellets. Bettas also need one fast day a week. What are you feeding?

What is the ph of the water? I wouldn't be adding any ph altering substances without knowing how it effects things. Did you boil/precure the driftwood before adding it? Did you rinse the gravel really well?

What is the nitrite and nitrate levels? If you're running a tank with a filter and not doing weekly 100% changes you need to monitor those levels as well. Also your once weekly water change needs to be closer to 50% in something that small and include a through vacuuming of the gravel to remove poop/debris and not just skim water off the top. Also those snails are SUPER messy. Would not keep one in something so small personally, but you may need a couple 50% water changes to keep water okay in that case.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I've had this tank for over a year now and have been feeding him that amount with no ill effects (the pellets are rather small). I've had the snail for about 2 months now and have been maintaining the water parameters and performing water changes. The main reason I'm so concerned is the speed at which the coloration developed (practically overnight). I did boil the driftwood multiple times before adding it to the tank. My water change schedule is the same as it has always been with no ill effects. I'm beginning to think it may be stress related due to the change in both the substrate and driftwood (altered pH perhaps).


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I stand by what I said above. Sorry. That does include but certainly not limited to possible ph swing stress. Definitely would increase water changes and get the other levels looked at as well.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That can happen, yes. As for the feeding EVERY SINGLE FISH is DIFFERENT. Janey gets almost the same amount as my giant, while Mickey can't have more than maybe 4 pellets a day. Ares eats 10 a day, and Lovelace eats 12 a day. I feed until they show me a full belly. But I also switch it up, and g e them thawed along with a day of fasting. Plus my pellets are .5 or 1mm depending on the brand.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> I stand by what I said above. Sorry. That does include but certainly not limited to possible ph swing stress. Definitely would increase water changes and get the other levels looked at as well.


I agree with what you say too, and note that I do all of those things except the water change thing. From what I understand, 100% water changes on a cycled tank is detrimental to the cycle. I clean detritus and waste from the surface of the sand. I will be increasing the water change schedule a bit, but don't want to perform large changes since that would disrupt the establishment of the full cycle again. I'll look at the other levels like nitrate to keep track of the mini-cycle. I'm beginning to think it may be pH swing stress, but the pH has been at this level for over a week now. Is it possible for him to show signs of stress that long after a pH change?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Though... Your tank says 0.25 ammonia right? A properly cycled tank should not show that... It's probably going through a mini cycle. And I agree 100% on a cycled tank is not a good idea. I don't think you need to do more than 30% water change. Every cycled tank of mine (5+ gallons) gets a 30% water change. Uncycled gets 50-100% depending on size.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Though... Your tank says 0.25 ammonia right? A properly cycled tank should not show that... It's probably going through a mini cycle. And I agree 100% on a cycled tank is not a good idea. I don't think you need to do more than 30% water change. Every cycled tank of mine (5+ gallons) gets a 30% water change. Uncycled gets 50-100% depending on size.


No it doesn't say .25 ppm thankfully! It's closer to 0 ppm based on my color sheet (the test was yellow). I usually end up doing about 40% change from sucking up all the debris in the tank.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That's fine  more than likely because of the changes made to the aquarium it will go through a mini cycle which you seem to have down pretty well. Just keep an eye on him and his behaviour.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> That's fine  more than likely because of the changes made to the aquarium it will go through a mini cycle which you seem to have down pretty well. Just keep an eye on him and his behaviour.


That's what I think will be best. I'm also trying to limit the amount of time the tank light is on to reduce his stress. If anything the tannins should help calm him down too.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Tannins will definitely help. I always use them for sick fish and young fish as well.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Here's some progress on his coloration. I have a strong feeling he is marbling...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think he might be! We've seen this large difference for marbles before... Dark to light and light to dark.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Are those silverly scales normal? I don't really see any fuzz or cotton like appearance to them, they're more of a shiny color...


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Just did a full water test:

Ammonia: about .05 to .1 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
pH: about 7.5

He seems to be acting really lethargic, I'm going to do a 50% water change just to be safe...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That would be a good idea to do a water change.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Ammonia should not be present in a fully cycled tank, and there should be some nitrates. It sounds like it's still cycling then.. It's a good idea to test daily and do a 50% change any time you see as little as .25ppm. It's gotten way to high at this point..

What filter are you using and how have you maintained it?

How long has the tank been set up? 

100% water change does not hurt your cycle. The bb is in the gravel, decor and mostly filter, but not suggesting you do this. Just need to monitor more closely


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Callistra they know it's going through a cycle  However, I believe it is two water changes a week for a 5 to safely get the fish through the cycle?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Not if it's reaching that high of ammonia it's not, unfortunately. 1ppm is way too high and .5 is really not ideal either. Personally, I never cycle without testing and just assume a couple water changes will be fine as you will have spikes that go unnoticed. Some people do it and if you have hardy fish you may get away without noticeable issue or just some minor fin rot.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I either cycle it beforehand, or not at all (filter-less tanks) so you'd be the one to answer that :lol:


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

As I said in my original post, I've had the tank for over a year now. I recently switched out the substrate and decor, which is why I think it's cycling again. The readout from the color chart may not have been that high; if there is any green it means it's more than 0 ppm, and it looked to be only slightly greenish, but hardly noticeable (heck, I might be imagining things due to my paranoia). The filter I'm using has been running for about 4 months now, and the media is the same age as the tank. Just did a 50% water change, I'll keep monitoring him...now I'm conflicted on whether or not he's marbling or sick ><


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Do you use a strip, or the liquid API one?

Is he gasping at all? Check his gills for a red, or inflamed look.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Do you use a strip, or the liquid API one?
> 
> Is he gasping at all? Check his gills for a red, or inflamed look.


The liquid API one. The gills don't appear red or inflamed, but he seemed to be breathing heavy before the water change. Here's a video of him before I changed the water.

http://tinypic.com/r/m61it/6

After I did the water change he's only breathing about half that speed and not quite as dramatic.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

He may be very sensitive to the ammonia - which can be from prolonged exposure to it.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> He may be very sensitive to the ammonia - which can be from prolonged exposure to it.


Do you suggest I keep up the 50% water changes every other day until the readouts look right?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think Callistra would have to answer that one. I'm not good with cycling with a fish in the tank!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The video is showing me that he likely responding to the ammonia. Could be generally sensitive. Could be he's seen traces of it a long time and now he can't handle it at all. I've seen it said that the white scaling can also be caused by long term ammonia exposure, but I really don't know as I've never seen a fish do that before.

I would do 50% water change daily until ammonia hits zero. From there I would test daily and do 25-50% change any time you see any ammonia show up at all. Hopefully eventually it will stay at 0. At some point, with all that ammonia, you're likely to also get nitrites start showing up. So I'd be testing that as well and changing water when you see signs of it too.

You must have had a lot of your bb in your gravel.. can I ask what filter you're using?

As long as he's eating and breathing normally and not acting stressed I would say just keeping on top of his water would be all he needs. You could put a touch of epsoms at around 1/4-1/2 tsp per gallon predissolved if you want as they can help with ammonia poising. Needs to be 100% pure magnesium sulfate. They also have some mild antifungal properties in case there's something going on. Predissolve it in a cup and add it slowly over an hour as it might cause a ph shift. Your plants will like it too. It's a fertilizer for them. When you don't want him in the ES anymore just stop adding it during water changes (won't ever evaporate or break down so no need to redose until you do a water change).

Also using prime as your conditioner (or AmQuel Plus) during cycling can help render some of that ammonia non toxic and help your bioload break it down faster.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> The video is showing me that he likely responding to the ammonia. Could be generally sensitive. Could be he's seen traces of it a long time and now he can't handle it at all. I've seen it said that the white scaling can also be caused by long term ammonia exposure, but I really don't know as I've never seen a fish do that before.
> 
> I would do 50% water change daily until ammonia hits zero. From there I would test daily and do 25-50% change any time you see any ammonia show up at all. Hopefully eventually it will stay at 0. At some point, with all that ammonia, you're likely to also get nitrites start showing up. So I'd be testing that as well and changing water when you see signs of it too.
> 
> ...


The tank is still recovering from an algae outbreak a few weeks ago; the amount present now is about 20% of what it used to be  I have black sand now, but the black beard algae has pretty much disappeared now.

The filter is the Marina S10 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032G8TPW/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00) with year old media from my other filter (should have BB in it).

I'll keep up with those water changes daily then until I notice a pure yellow on the test and some nitrates. Unfortunately, I don't have any epsom salts with me now, but I should be able to get some this weekend.

Thanks for the information, I'll keep you all posted!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

AcrimoniousArbiter said:


> The tank is still recovering from an algae outbreak a few weeks ago; the amount present now is about 20% of what it used to be  I have black sand now, but the black beard algae has pretty much disappeared now.
> 
> The filter is the Marina S10 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032G8TPW/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00) with year old media from my other filter (should have BB in it).
> 
> ...


Whoops, just realized you meant beneficial bacteria and not black beard algae  I guess I had more in my substrate than I thought...


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

*pops in* I think that if your curious about whether he is marbling or not you should take a look at this article. http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1114


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

blueridge said:


> *pops in* I think that if your curious about whether he is marbling or not you should take a look at this article. http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=1114


Yup yup, found that one and have read it probably 5 times now due to my anxiety :-? It looks pretty similar to that, and I was content for about a day thinking that's all it was. It's just kind of suspicious to me that it happened during the mini-cycle too :| It also happened in less than a 48 hour period...is that possible for marbling?


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah I could see where you would be questioning it. I've had marbles before they never did any thing that crazy like in the article, but I have had them change over night. I would say that if he isn't acting lethargic, eating well, and your water parameters are fine then just keep an eye on him. My guess from the pictures you have posted would be that he is marbling.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have also seen bettas who have the "jumping gene". It's like an extreme case of marbling, taking it to a whole new level. So now it no longer can freak me out (as much)


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

I noticed some fin rot that was showing up since yesterday getting worse, so I QT'd Cobalt in my gallon tank with 1 tsp of AQ salt. The thing that tipped me off was the hole that developed in his upper fin. When I first got him, I made the newbie mistake of a fish in cycle, during which I noticed the same finrot hole. Currently, I believe the fin rot is most definitely related to the re-cycling going on and the spikes in Ammonia. I never saw the pink coloration before, so that might just be marbling. I swear, if his genes decided to marble at the same time as the cycle that would be one stressful coincidence (mostly for me)!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Thought I'd post an update. End of the second day of QT, he's acting very in character (begs for food, runs from camera). The minor fin rot seems to have stopped its advance, so hopefully he should be showing some healing soon. Treating with 1 tsp AQ salt/gallon with the full water change each day. Here's the two pictures I managed to get through my sneaky methods (setting up a webcamera next to the tank and catching him sleeping in range 

The pink coloration has spread to about half of the body, and the white coloration on his neck and head has become more pronounced. I don't seem to see any fuzz on the scales, except that one patch is kind of shiny on his right side. He's eating well, and I just ordered some bloodworms that should get here next week


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That coloration is not normal... He is not changing colors he has something. The reason I point that out, is because the color is a dull color with a grey undertone. What meds do you have on hand and what can you get ASAP?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> That coloration is not normal... He is not changing colors he has something. The reason I point that out, is because the color is a dull color with a grey undertone. What meds do you have on hand and what can you get ASAP?


I should be able to get these by Tuesday:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002561WY/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00

and this by Wednesday:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007R5M7V6/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Any clue what it might be if it's not coloration? Internal/external? Should I keep up the salt treatments too?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Keep the epsom salt.

You don't have any medications locally?

General cure won't touch that. That's really a parasite med.

The Fungus clear has a chance. My personal first choice is Kanaplex and second Maracyn Plus


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> Keep the epsom salt.
> 
> You don't have any medications locally?
> 
> ...


I've been treating him with Aquarium Salt since he was showing signs of some fin rot. Can you do epsom at the same time? If you think that would help I could make a trip tomorrow to get some since I don't have any. I'm really wary of exposing him to medicine unless I'm sure it will help...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Epsom and aquarium salt can be used at the same time, I have been recommended that by some of the top breeders and long-time fish hobbyists here... It looks to be external... However the salts won't do anything at this point. Right now it is literally... The best meds you can get ASAP. Monday might be too late. I have to agree with Callistra on that.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Epsom and aquarium salt can be used at the same time, I have been recommended that by some of the top breeders and long-time fish hobbyists here... It looks to be external... However the salts won't do anything at this point. Right now it is literally... The best meds you can get ASAP. Monday might be too late. I have to agree with Callistra on that.


Well I'm sure glad I decided to post an update. Wish I knew it wasn't just a color change earlier so I could have gotten the meds sooner:-?. Can bettas get infections and still not have a change in character?

I can make a trip out tomorrow (Saturday) and hopefully find the right meds and begin dosing them ASAP. What exactly should I be looking for?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

He's not acting normal. He's extremely clamped and the way he's holding his body in that picture is not ok either.

Look for the meds I listed before. Or if you can't find them the jungle fungus cure could help


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've had some sick ones... Like... DROPSY sick, and they act perfectly fine which is the silliest thing :roll: Though, since your fella is clamped he is definitely saying "I'm sick!" Some bettas do hold off until it progresses...


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> He's not acting normal. He's extremely clamped and the way he's holding his body in that picture is not ok either.
> 
> Look for the meds I listed before. Or if you can't find them the jungle fungus cure could help


Will get those and hopefully starting dosing within 24 hours then. What exactly are "clamped fins?" I thought it was when the fins sat abnormally close to the body. He looked distorted in the picture due to the glass on the QT bowl he's in.

I took this video to help you all get a better idea of what we're dealing with:

http://tinypic.com/r/n71c8z/6


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Clamped fins... Here is a picture. See how the female holds her caudal "stuck together". Compare that to the second picture, which is her sister. Extreme cases, is the last picture of Lucille... A bad petsmart buy. That is another example of clamped fins... Kira (first picture) doesn't quite hold her fins against her body, as much as Lucille does.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> Keep the epsom salt.
> 
> You don't have any medications locally?
> 
> ...


Good news, the store that's about a 15 minute walk away that opens at 11 has Maracyn Plus in stock. Should be able to begin dosing by this afternoon!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

I was reading about the dosing for Maracyn Plus, and it says to treat 2 tsp per 10 gallons on day 1, 3, and 5. I was going to use the 1 gallon QT tank with .2 tsp (about 1 mL) to treat him. Since it says to only treat him every other day, what should I do about the daily water changes?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can do daily 100% changes with a full redose. That works fine. I would not use the cap as a measurement. Use some other ml tool. I have found the cap to be a really inaccurate measure. 1 ml per gallon is correct dosage.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> You can do daily 100% changes with a full redose. That works fine. I would not use the cap as a measurement. Use some other ml tool. I have found the cap to be a really inaccurate measure. 1 ml per gallon is correct dosage.


Just got back, the maracyn plus they had was 2 years expired. I got Maracyn and Maracyn II though. I have a mL syringe to use so I should be able to accurately dose it. Which one do you think I should use and any tips on dosing it?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

One is positive gram, the other is negative gram... I still need to restock mine xD Though I know they both say almost the same things on the back, for diseases, right?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> One is positive gram, the other is negative gram... I still need to restock mine xD


Right, but which one should I use for this? I'm thinking it might be best to use the Maracyn based on the description I read on the instruction sheet. It says Maracyn is for patchy coloration, clamped fins, rapid breathing, etc. I don't think what Cobalt has is an internal bacterial infection?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Since it is fungal... I'd say go ahead. Add it slowly, so not to shock the poor fella :lol:


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Maracyn is the one that is most likely to work on this, but you can use both together for a more broad spectrum approach. Make sure to predissolve and dilute for the size of QT he's in.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> Maracyn is the one that is most likely to work on this, but you can use both together for a more broad spectrum approach. Make sure to predissolve and dilute for the size of QT he's in.


Will do the predissolve for the 1 gallon in a larger bucket and dose that way. If I use both of them together, do I add them both at the full concentration, or half of one and half of the other?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can do full concentrations.

Both meds treat 10 gallons so you need to dissolve in 10 parts of something and add one part of it to the tank. For example, 10 cups of water and add 1 cup of the solution to the 1gal QT. Make Sense?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> You can do full concentrations.
> 
> Both meds treat 10 gallons so you need to dissolve in 10 parts of something and add one part of it to the tank. For example, 10 cups of water and add 1 cup of the solution to the 1gal QT. Make Sense?


On it now. Found this post too: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=89239&page=0#post935325

Now to find another gallon jug!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That works too. Sakura halfed the dosage.. 10:1 is 5:1/2


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> That works too. Sakura halfed the dosage.. 10:1 is 5:1/2


Is there an ideal temperature I should be shooting for?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm beginning to add the medication slowly over the course of the next hour or so. Keeping the tank around 78. I'll keep you guys updated on his progress!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The tank is fine at its current temp. Good luck!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Update after first 24 hours of treatment of Maracyn and Maracyn II. Upper fin continues to decay, finding black parts of fin in dirty water. Only noticeable sign of improvement is slightly less inflamed gills and a more frequent flaring, pictures attached.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The meds will take a few days to really take hold. It will be a waiting period to see if they take hold faster than the disease progresses, and also to see if they are effective. Are those the only meds you could find?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> The meds will take a few days to really take hold. It will be a waiting period to see if they take hold faster than the disease progresses, and also to see if they are effective. Are those the only meds you could find?


They had others there, but these ones seemed to be the most broad spectrum (they didn't have kanaplex and the maracyin plus was 2 years old and quite costly). Would other meds even do anything the maracyns wouldn't?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Furan 2 and triple sulfa may have.. Since you've already got him in those I would probably just continue at this point for at least a full round and see where you're at.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sulfa isn't an option since I'm allergic to it :|

I'll keep you posted on how this works out.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

(like me and bleach... not an option xD)

Good luck!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Update after almost 48 hours of treatment. Significant improvement in coloration! Much more of a blue hue spreading back across the pink area. Fin rot seems to have stopped and the fin is turning back to blue! Will continue to post updates as he progresses.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

AWESOME! YAY! Keep us posted  Looks like you go the right stuff just needs time to be effective.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Sorry we did not catch it earlier. It was peculiar that he was fine, with only the color change... And since we have seen marbles and jumping genes do the same... Good thing he is getting better!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Yay! If he is doing better and improving, you are well on your way!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Sorry we did not catch it earlier. It was peculiar that he was fine, with only the color change... And since we have seen marbles and jumping genes do the same... Good thing he is getting better!


No worries, glad we were able to catch it at all. I'll post new photos tomorrow!


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

After 3 days of treatment, minor progress from yesterday. Fin rot seems to have stopped now. Finding lots of stress coat/clearish film particles in the water. Eating well, flaring and running away when I try to take pictures, and seems to be behaving well in general. The blue is only slightly more pronounced from yesterday.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Must've shed his slime coat - which is good


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

After 4 days of treatment, nothing terribly drastic. Still eating well (but decided not to pay attention to the bloodworms I got him ). Tomorrow is the last dose :|


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

To me his dorsal just seems "melted" if anything.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Last day of treatment, no noticeable changes from yesterday. He's still mostly pink in color and the bottom half of his front is a pale whitish color. Is it normal for fish not to be completely cured after the course of the medication? 

I have enough Maracyn left for another dosage, and I also have the Jungle fungus clear fizz tabs now also. What should be the course of action at this point?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Have you seen any poop? What color is it?

Sometimes it takes more than just a round of medication to get a betta fully better, depending on the situation.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Have you seen any poop? What color is it?
> 
> Sometimes it takes more than just a round of medication to get a betta fully better, depending on the situation.


I saw some yesterday and it looked normal (about color of the pellets). Didn't notice any today, though I wasn't looking for it.

The package does say I can repeat it once if needed, but I'm not sure if that would improve his illness or not...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

He looks pretty darn bloated to me, What do you think Sena?

So he's been on meds a week?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

He does, which is why my concern was "parasites" but if his poop has been normal, it's unlikely.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I know for certain that yesterday it was normal. Didn't find any today though...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Epsom salt. It can be used alongside meds, and keeps the internal track going. pre-dissolve 1-3 teaspoons per gallon gradually adding over time.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

i find the bloated yellow belly to be bacterial. Parasites tend to cause sunken belly.. sometimes can get secondary bacterial that cause this though.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> i find the bloated yellow belly to be bacterial. Parasites tend to cause sunken belly.. sometimes can get secondary bacterial that cause this though.


Yah the yellowish white color has me worried. Do you think I should continue with another 5 days of the maracyns or switch to the jungle stuff?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Personally I would say stay with the same meds rather than dosing him with another kind... Callistra, what's your thoughts?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Here's a picture I got today while changing the water. It seems a bit darker, but that might be due to the bloodworm he probably ate (while I wasn't looking). Don't know if this helps anything.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That doesn't look like normal poop to me.. If you wanted to switch meds I'd switch to Kanaplex + Furan 2, otherwise I'd stick with what you have.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

If/when I switch meds, should I have a few days without any medication to give his system a rest, or just start the new meds right away?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I personally like to give my Bettas a rest when they are under medication.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I would say it depends on how he is acting and how long he was on the last round. I would usually give a betta a week off meds if they've already gone 2 weeks, unless it seems like they might pass in that time.

Are you using epsom salt?


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> I would say it depends on how he is acting and how long he was on the last round. I would usually give a betta a week off meds if they've already gone 2 weeks, unless it seems like they might pass in that time.
> 
> Are you using epsom salt?


Haven't had time to get any salts, I'm going to try to find some time to get some this week. I was reading up on some other similar posts and found out I goofed up the medication; I mixed up the meds once at the beginning, dosed that for about 3 days, then remixed it on the 3rd day and dosed with that same mixture again for the remaining 2. The second round was pretty much all the same mixture of just the Maracyn I made up after the 5th day. I found this out on Sunday, so he's now had 2 doses with the mixture made up fresh. He has shown more blue coloration improvement on the side that has remained mostly pink during the past 10 days. 

Should I follow your advise from this post (http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=91900&page=2#post967684) or just stop the meds altogether at this point? My case seems a bit different since I didn't wait a week between the courses of antibiotic and he's showing improvement after his last 2 days of (correct) treatment. He's also not showing the signs of dropsy at this point, and is still eating well.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Update: I decided against dosing any more Maracyn and am currently acclimating him back to plain water. I'm going to do my best to make a trip out tomorrow and get some epsom salts and perhaps start him on those by tomorrow. Do you think the Jungle Fizz tabs I have will work? The active ingredients are Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, and Potassium Dichromate. The local pet store probably has Furan-2, so that is a possibility if you think it would be better than what I already have.

I'm thinking my plan of action will be to get him off the antibiotics for about 5-7 days and get him on epsom salts during that time. If his condition worsens during that time, I'll put him on the new antibiotic.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That might work but I'd be afraid to use it for very long because of the Potassium Dichromate which is a carcinogenic chemical not a medication.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Got some epsom salts today! I'm going to add them this evening when I do his water change. I was wondering if you think I should put him back in the big tank with epsom salts or just leave him in the QT bowl. I have live plants and a snail in my main tank as well as some driftwood which put off a bit of tannins (not as much as before, but the water is still slightly browned). It's been at least 2 weeks now for the tank to cycle, so I'm pretty sure it's stabilized...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Cycling takes up to two months. It won't cycle in two weeks..

Have you been testing and monitoring to see the ammonia spike and set at 0 and nitrite? Then you'll probably need to do a 90%+ change to deal with nitrates at this point..


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

callistra said:


> Cycling takes up to two months. It won't cycle in two weeks..
> 
> Have you been testing and monitoring to see the ammonia spike and set at 0 and nitrite? Then you'll probably need to do a 90%+ change to deal with nitrates at this point..


Yah, decided against putting him back in, still tested for some nitrites. Did about 70% water change. I've been kind of focused on the QT tank and meds, etc. so haven't been thinking too much about the cycle. My snail is providing some bioload though so that should help. Going to keep Cobalt in QT with 100% water changes each day with about 1 tsp of epsom. If he starts to get noticeably worse before 5-7 days I'll start him on the jungle stuff.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Cobalt hasn't really gotten any worse but his condition hasn't really improved. I'm thinking of starting him on the jungle fizz tabs. I'm going to use the same method of dosing as the Maracyn (5 cups mixture, dose 1/2 cup for the gallon) but was wondering about the dosing frequency. The box says to do the initial dose (1 tab to each 10 gallons) and the second dose may be added in 4 days. Does this mean I mix up the 5 cups on the first day and dose for 4 days with that mixture (I do the 100% WC each day)? Is that correct or should I be doing a fresh mixture each day?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah, any medication that hits liquid must be mixed fresh daily.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

It's been a while since I posted an update, so I figured I'd post one.

I stopped the anti fungal medication around 2/13, so about 2 weeks ago. Since then I have been adding 1 tsp of epsom salts to the water during the once daily water change. It's been 12 days of the salts, so I stopped adding them to the water today since his condition was not showing any signs of changing or improving.

I'm beginning to lose my mind over this. His condition hasn't degraded nor has it improved over the past month, and this whole ordeal has been going on for 2 months now (not to mention the daily maintenance starting to take its toll). He's eating fine, acting fine, doesn't have raised scales, etc. 

I've attached pictures of his current coloration, which has been like this for the past few weeks. Sometimes I think my mind plays tricks on me when I check his coloring; some days I think it's better, other days it's worse, then it's better again, etc...

My tank has been cycling since the beginning of this drama (1/1/13) and I just did some water parameter tests this evening:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

I have 3 developed plants (anubias, java fern, wisteria) and a snail that has been providing (alot) of bioload.

At this point my main concern is where to go from here. I really really would hate having to give him another medication, since that's so hard on his system, which has been through so much already. I've been considering moving him back into his home 5 gallon tank since the water parameters check out and there are still tannins being produced in the water from the driftwood. 

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do at this point? My sanity would appreciate any advice.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Well Cobalt has been back in his tank since the 26th of February. He's looks a bit better and definitely more blue. His upper fin is showing more signs of regrowth too. Overall, I think it's just a matter of time for him to heal.


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## AcrimoniousArbiter (Dec 20, 2011)

Here's a picture from today:


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I just read like, this whole thread. And you got some good advice.
BUT HOLY SCHMOLY MARBLEEEE.
Well, at least it looks like he marbled to me.


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