# I think my betta has swim bladder disease



## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

One of my male bettas has been a little weird for a few weeks. He spends most of his time on the bottom and it looks like it's a chore for him to swim. He has a hard time coming up for food (he always does, though). He doesn't have any symptoms of common fish diseases, the water temp and parameters are good. Plus he's in a divided 10 gallon with another betta and the other betta is fine.
I always thought swim bladder disorder causes the fish to float and then I read that it can cause them to sink also. Does it sound like he has swim bladder disease? I've heard of Epsom salt or a pea as treatment. Which one is better and what is the dose of ep some salt if I were to use that?


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

How much (in %) you change his water?
How often you do water changes?
Is your tank cycled?
How long he has it?
Do you have hospital tank?
I would put him in the hospital since he is weak and have problem to swim . It will be easier for him. If you have hospital tank use the new dechlorinated water and the tank water and put him in the hospital tank without the filter. 
Betta with sbd will have buoyancy problem, can be bloated, not able to hold himself upright and swim on sideways. 
Do you think you could overfeed him? If you overfeed him he probobly would be bloated. If you think you overfeed him definitely fast him for a day and see if he is better.
When is last time he pooped?
The best food for him now is good quality pellets as New Life Spectrum or Omega one. Very good for constipated betta is frozen daphnia. 
http://www.bigalspets.com/betta-formula-1-mm-semi-floating-pellets-50-g.html

http://www.petco.com/product/116563...ne-_-1483889&gclid=CP6p8pDYl7kCFUui4AodwA8AXQ

Epsom salt is helpful as a laxative and for mild internal problem . It has to be pure 100% Epsom salt (unscented, not other additives) . Pre mix 1 tsp/gall and make sure it dissolved before you add it to the tank. Next treatment day add 3 tsp/gall . Do daily water changes. You can alternate 50% with 100% water changes. Again i think it better to put him in the hospital tank , just in case it something contaigious and you don't want your other betta get sick and also you don't want to add Epsom to the main tank.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

What do you feed him? Some bettas are sensitive to grains/fillers, and can do better on high-protein foods that contain less grains. (I have one like this.) 

I would use Epsom salt. (Not the pea.) 

Epsom salt has a fluid reducing effect, which can often help with buoyancy issues. Look for plain magnesium sulfate. (No dyes, additives or perfumes.) It will not harm any plants. (It's a fertilizer, actually.)

I would start with a low dosage of 0.5 teaspoons Epsom salt/gal. The easiest way to do this is simply put some tank water in a cup. Since he's in a 10 gal tank currently, stir in 5 teaspoons Epsom salt.* Make sure the salt is completely dissolved. Then, over the course of an hour, slowly pour the solution back into the tank.

As sunlight mentioned, you may want to put him into a hospital tank with a lower water level. This will make it easier for him to reach the surface. (*If you put him into a QT tank, you'll need to adjust the Epsom salt amounts accordingly!)

It may take a day or two for the Epsom salt to start working. But if this dosage doesn't help after 1-2 days, you can increase it to 1 teaspon Epsom salt/gal. You can do this by repeating the above instructions. 

Then, when you do water changes, pre-mix 1 teaspoon Epsom salt/gal before doing the water change. This will maintain a constant dosage of 1 tsp/gal. Do this for a week, if needed, and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't, let us know as he may need something more.

I went through this kind of quickly, so if you need more detailed instructions on anything, please ask!


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks.
Yeah, the tank is cycled, the temp is about 80, I change about 25% of the water weekly. No, I don' over feed them. I used to use Wardly betta food and I would give them each 4 pellets in the morning and 4 at night. Then I switched to Omega One and they got bloated when I fed them the same amount so I cut back to 3 pellets in the morning and 3 at night. They don't look bloated at all now. I will put him in a hospital tank and lower the water, and put some epsom salt in there.
Thanks a lot.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

minimum dosage for the Epsom is 1tsp/gall. So don't put less than that. You can increase the dose on second day of the treatment up to 2 tsp/gall and on fallowing day up to 3tsp/gall.
And its advised to do 50% weekly water changes with gravel vacuuming weekly. And rinse the filter in the tank water. And since you have 2 bettas in the tank i would even do more water changes a week then 50%.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

@sunlight - Is there a reason you're recommending such a high dosage of Epsom salt? (Just wondering, as I generally prefer the low doses, unless there's a major issue going on.)


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

I just used to see Oldfishlady recommendations. I think she used to recommend 2-3 tsp/gall. And i also learned that it very mild and less stressful on fish than aquarium salt . And since it's acceptable dose i was thinking it better chance to help I was reading some threads where people used 3tsp/gall and it helped. But you definitely know more than me so i would go with your advice. I should read your post more carefully, somehow i thought you also recommended to increase the dose ...but it was up to 1 tsp/gall. I thought that if 1tsp/gall not going to work then 2-3 would.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Sunlight: OK.... Yes, I recommended a lower dosage because he didn't appear to have major issues (at this time). 

Epsom salt is pretty mild on them (as compared to medications like antibiotics, etc). But it can cause issues with the higher dosages..... If they have a problem like dropsy/pineconing, then you have to go to the 3 tsp/gal (and do it quickly), since they're in severe danger from their illness.

But in this case, he's not bloated at all per the OP's writeup, and just appears to have some minor SBD issues. It could even be constipation causing this.... So I recommended a low dose of Epsom salt.

Also, if you review OFL's instructions, she always recommended partial water changes. (Four 25% the first day, followed by 50% every other day for the next 14 days.) I worked it out, and it takes the fish to the following dosages:
Day 1: 1 tsp/gal
Day 2: 2 tsp/gal
Day 4: 2.5 tsp/gal
Day 6: 2.75 tsp/gal
Day 8: 2.87 tsp/gal
Day 10: 2.94 tsp/gal

So even though she advises people to premix a 'treatment solution' with 3 tsp/gal, they're doing partial water changes every other day. It's not until about day 10 that they're actually reaching the full 3 tsp/gal dosage.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Ok thank you for the explanation ! I will follow your advice next time i will recommend some one to use Epsom salt. Awesome !!!
Questions
How long people can use 3 tsp/gall?
And if the fish is really bloated from constipation or from the internal parasites what is the first dose of the Epsom ?
Thank you


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

No no... You don't have to just follow my advice. Every situation is different, and sometimes, you need to decide what the best treatment will be, given the history of the fish, its current condition, etc. Also, everyone's approach to caring for our Bettas is going to be a little different. That means that all of us may vary a little in the treatments that we follow. Some people are quicker to prescribe medications, others prefer a more holistic/natural approach. In the end, it's up to the fish's owner to determine the best course of action to take. 

As for using 3 tsp Epsom salt/gal, I personally just recommend it for 'severe' illnesses/issues. For example, if a fish has dropsy, etc. Then, since the next step beyond dropsy is often death, well, if it was my fish, I'd keep using that dosage and not really worry about a specific length of time. But, again, this is my personal philosophy, not any 'definite rule.' 

On the other hand, I have a fish who tends to become bloated easily. I just use a low dosage of Epsom salt when this happens. Since this is my fish, I know what works, which is usually about 0.25 to 0.5 teaspoons Epsom salt per gallon. As soon as he poops, or becomes less bloated, I do a water change to remove at least some of the Epsom salt. 

So I would say that, again, there's no 'hard rule.' You have to look at the pictures and read the history. But usually for nonsevere bloat/constipation, I'll recommend:
- 1 to 2 days of fasting to see if it helps.
- A dosage of about 0.5 teaspoons Epsom salt/gal for 1-2 days. (And if that doesn't work, then go up to about 1 teaspoon Epsom salt/gal.)

In the case of internal parasites, it also depends on the fish's history/condition. If the fish is bloated, but we're not yet sure what's causing it, then I'll recommend Epsom salt.... But if we're sure that the problem is internal parasites, I'll recommend a medication that contains both metronidazole and praziquantel. (For example, API General Cure.) This is because these two medications treat the majority of aquatic freshwater parasites. Then, if the fish is also bloated, I may recommend using a low dose of Epsom salt to relieve this.

There was a study done recently that indicated that Epsom salt can expel parasites. It was a pretty high dosage of Epsom salt needed for this, though. So for people who prefer not to use medications, using Epsom salt for parasites is another option. So, in this case, the treatment you suggest is not only based on the fish's history and condition, but also the ability and/or willingness of the owner to get medications. Some people prefer a holistic approach, some people can't afford medications or can't get them at local stores, etc, etc etc.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Thank you so much for all your time and patience with me!!!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

OrangeAugust - how's your fish doing? Any better?


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

It's too soon to tell. I was finally able to get the Epsom salt yesterday, and I put him a rectangular 2 gallon tank filled halfway. So I put a tsp. of Epsom salt in there yesterday. So today I do a 75% water change and put another teaspoon in?
I'm such an idiot, though- I forgot to put a heater in his hospital tank! I realized it this morning and the water was only 72. I feel bad about it. He has a mini heater in there now.
Anyway, I'm attaching a picture of how he sits on the bottom all the time. He looks so sad.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

How long should it be before I see an improvement. It's been 3 days and he's still the same. It also looks like he has a lump on his right side. What could it be?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you get a photo showing the lump?
What dosage of Epsom salt are you using now?
And what's the water temperature?

It can take a couple of days for the Epsom salt to have a laxative/fluid reducing effect. Overall, would you say he's the same, better or worse?


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Can you get a photo showing the lump?
> What dosage of Epsom salt are you using now?
> And what's the water temperature?
> 
> It can take a couple of days for the Epsom salt to have a laxative/fluid reducing effect. Overall, would you say he's the same, better or worse?


I'll post a photo tomorrow that shows the lump better. The first day I did 1/2 tsp/gallon (I thought I was using the 1tsp spoon. lol). Then the next day I did a 75% water change and added another 1/2 tsp of Epsom salt. Today I changed almost all if the water again and added 1tsp. of Epsom salt. He kind of seems worse today. He was breathing heavy earlier, and the edges of his fins are starting to look weird. I doubt it's fin rot because I've changed his water every day since I moved him to the hospital tank.
Oh, and I'm using one of those mini heaters without an adjustable thermostat so it fluctuates depending on the room temp but right now it's 82 degrees.
Help! I hate to see him looking so sick.:-(


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Here's a pic of the lump on his side. It's kind of discolored, too.
I don't think he's getting better. It seems like he's getting worse. He's in a rectangular 2 gallon tank filled only halfway. He only comes up for one pellet now. It seems really hard to get to the surface and it's only a couple inches of water. He comes up as fast as he can, and grabs one pellet before sinking back down. Is it something else other than swim bladder? Besides his trouble swimming because he always sinks, He doesn't have any other symptoms besides that weird lump.
He looks so sad.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Oh poor baby  Since this has been going on so long I'm going to guess that some sort of bacterial infection is the culprit here. He definitely has swim bladder related issues, but those can be caused by many things. 

SBD can be caused by Constipation (which would have likely resolved itself by now), Injury or Birth Defect (which you would have noticed right away when you purchased your betta), Internal Parasites( your betta would likely be exhibiting other symptoms of this one), or Bacterial Infection. 

What do you have on hand (or can get easily) medication wise? Epsom salt will only help SBD if it is constipation related, at this point it is my opinion that you need to start treating differently.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Also, the red edges on his fins actually are an indication of "Fin Rot" but fin rot is not always caused by dirty water, it can also be a bacterial problem.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Ok, what do you suggest as a treatment?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Do you have any sort of antibiotic? Like Maracyn 2 or Kanaplex?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Do you have Kanaplex? 

It's one of the few antibiotics that can treat a wide range of internal bacterial infections, along with external infections.

Unfortunately, Kanaplex can't be purchased at places like Petsmart/Petco. You can get it online though.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't have either but I will try Maracyn 2 first since it's easier to find.
How could he have gotten a bacterial infection?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Kanaplex is actually the best for these things, I would order it either way and if you want you could use Maracyn 2 while you wait for it, but its really one of the BEST things you could have on hand.

Bacteria lives, breeds, and thrives in any warm moist place, so a heated fish tank is like bacteria's paradise.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I wouldn't bother with the Maracyn 2. It will only treat external issues. It's also harsh on the internal organs (kidneys and liver). IMO, it won't help his issues.

Instead, I would try either *API General Cure* or *Tetra Parasite Guard*. They both contains metronidazole and praziquantel. These are effective against internal parasites, which may be causing the lump.

If the API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard don't help, then I would try Kanaplex.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I wouldn't bother with the Maracyn 2. It will only treat external issues. It's also harsh on the internal organs (kidneys and liver). IMO, it won't help his issues.
> 
> Instead, I would try either *API General Cure* or *Tetra Parasite Guard*. They both contains metronidazole and praziquantel. These are effective against internal parasites, which may be causing the lump.
> 
> If the API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard don't help, then I would try Kanaplex.


Maracyn 2 is _supposed _to work against internal bacterial infections, that is how it is marketed, but I agree with LittleBlueFishlets it is too harsh on their kidneys/liver. I still think its more likely that its bacterial not parasitic. Kanaplex is still your best option imho. If you want you could also use a parasite medication at the same time, or while you are waiting for the Kanaplex to arrive.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Are the red edges on his fins his normal coloration? Or is that something new? If it's new, when did it start?


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

It's new and it started 2 days ago.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Poor little guy....

IMO, the best option is: Kanaplex and either (API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard).

If you can't get the Kanaplex, then use your Maracyn 2 and combine with either (API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard).

Kanaplex and Maracyn 2 are antibiotics. API General Cure and Tetra Parasite Guard are antiparasiticals that also can have some action against anaerobic internal bacteria.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

+1 to LittleBlueFishlets, I agree this is your best course of action.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Petco had a crappy selection. The only Maracyn they had was Maracyn Oxy. what's the difference between that and Maracyn 2? Also they didn't have either of those other two, but I got something called Tetra Lifeguard and it is supposed to treat bacterial, fungal, viral, and parasitic problems in fish... I will look for Kanaplex online also.

I was also upset that their bettas were in really bad shape, There were some dead ones, some sitting on the bottom not moving, some just floating around with clamped fins... and there was one who looked so skinny it looked like it hasn't eaten in weeks. :| really sad.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Lifeguard is ok, I have used it with success before. I don't think it's going to get rid of whatever is causing that lump, but you never know. Use it for a day or two and if you don't see immediate improvement order the Kanaplex.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I really wish that Mardel would vary the names more.

*Maracyn*: contains minocycline, a gram negative antibiotic.

*Maracyn 2*: contains erithromycin, a gram positive antibiotic.

*Maracyn Plus*: contains two broad spectrum sulfa drugs: Sulfadimidine and Trimethoprim. This is an excellent medication, but don't use it if you're allergic to sulfa drugs.

*Maracyn Oxy*: contains stabilized chlorine dioxide, which is an oxidizer, and acts as a disinfectant.

*Tetra Lifeguard*: contains 1-chloro-2,2,5,5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone. (Say that three times fast.  ) This is also an oxidizer that acts as a disinfectant.

Did they have *Maracyn Plus*? That would be another good option, if they don't have *Maracyn 2*.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks for the info, LittleBlueFishlets. I might return the Maracyn since I also got the Lifeguard one.


Guys, I just remembered something. I don't know if this could be the cause of what's going on now, but a couple of months ago, I was doing a water change and I got a phone call so I took the vacuum out, but I guess it fell back in and started siphoning again because I came back about 20 minutes later and there was no water left and my betta was lying on the gravel. I freaked out, filled a cup with water, then I had to pick him up by the tail and put him in the cup of water while I filled the tank again. :-( I felt awful but he seemed ok. But this problem he's been having has been going on for a while. It came on very slowly, though, so I didn't worry about it until 2 weeks ago when it got really bad really fast. But anyway, now I'm wondering if him being out of water for ~20 minutes could have started all this??


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Hello again.
My betta isn't any better. I gave him the Lifeguard stuff for 5 days and it didn't help at all. I got Kanaplex and gave him 2 doses so far (the bottle says every other day), and there's still no improvement. When should I start seeing results on the Kanaplex?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

I used kanaplex for about 2 weeks before I saw a large improvement


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Ok, thanks!
Did you see my question before that- about if this could have been caused by him being out of the water for 20 minutes one time?


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## equonce (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh so you can use Maracyn Two and Parasite Guard at the same time???


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