# Sorority Help!



## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

So I have a 20 gallon set up with TONS of plants and hiding spots and today I went to go buy the girls for it.

I bought 4, 3 VT and a CT. I named then Cleo, Annie, Shoes, and Beans.

Well Cleo was being REALLY mean to Shoes and I didn't know what to do so I took Cleo out and now its just Annie, Shoes and Beans.

But it was really scary cause Cleo had Shoes by the mouth!!

It was horrible....

But I don't know if it is part of the pecking order or if Cleo just isn't a nice fish!

The others are doing good, but they all have really big, dark lines on them and I'm sure they are stress lines...

I need some help!

What should I do? I put Cleo in first because she seemed like the less aggressive. Then I watched her swim for a little while before putting Shoes in, then I put Annie and Beans in together.

I put Beans in last cause she was getting really mad at Annie and Shoes who were next to her. But I think Cleo might be the aggressive one....

Cleo is out and in the PETCO cup until I can figure out what to do. But Annie, Shoes, and Beans are all in there together and they kinda chase each other around and then they go sit in the plants and breath air and stuff. But they all have *REALLY BIG black stress lines on them and i don't know what to do for those either. *

Thanks for the help!


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## bettafreak33 (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't know anything about soroirities but it may be usual for there lines being in a new, big tank and new tankmates also.Hope this helps as much as possible.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

OK. I think Shoes' lines are starting to go away and shes starting to go back to her orange color, Annie is skeptical, she swims around though, Shoes' is Annie's
"Friend".
Beans likes to swim more by her self. I don't know what to do with Cleo though....


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## Lordsameth (Jan 19, 2011)

Try introducing her slowly by floating her again. There is a lot of excitement adding them all at once.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

kay. I have her right next to the tank and she gets really excited when Shoes swims by...

I'll put her cup on the water and see what happens.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

If she gets too pecky again, you will have to remove her. A lot of sororities fail. 

You want to add the smallest girls first and then move up in size from there. 
If it fails, do you have a place to put the feisty one?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I NEVER recommend only putting 4 fish in a sorority. In fact I really don't think 6 is even a good number to be honest.

Unrelated sororities rarely work. The people that have successfully done it are very lucky because they've picked the right fish or know enough about Betta behavior to make it work.

Personally I never add them on the same day. They get to float together in separate cups for a week or so (with twice daily water changes to the cup) and then once they've had time to stare at each other for several days I release the most timid first and the most aggressive last.

Is your tank cycled? With sororities a cycled tank is almost a requirement because your bioload is going to be so heavy.

Leave the light off for several days so they aren't stressed by other conditions. To be honest you should have quarantined each of them separately for at least a week prior to adding them to the tank to scan for any illness they might have.


They are going to fight, you cant get around that. They are going to have ripped and nipped fins and are going to lip lock occasionally, they have to establish a pecking order. It usually takes a few days for them to settle down.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I have five females in a 7 gallon heavily planted tank and they get along as well as fish selectively bred to kill each other can. 

When I first introduced mine, one of the females hunted all the others down and was body-slamming, tearing at fins, and trying to lip-lock with the other 'dominant' female in there.

I left her floating in a cup where the others could see her. I then released her 15 minutes later. She proceeded to get her butt kicked by the new dominant female within minutes of leaving the cup, and has been very submissive since. 

I think if you give the females enough space/plants so each of them can patrol a 'territory', it works out better. My females all spend time in various spots around the tank and the only squabbling that breaks out is when my socially-impaired female swims into someone's territory and gets chased out and beaten up.

In a 20 gallon tank, I would buy a few more females. You really want to spread the aggression out. Also do you have a picture of your tank? I've found 'tons' is a bit of a subjective term when it comes to planting sororities. You really want it so you can't see from one side to the other.


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

I think you should just take them all out for today. :/
You need more girls. The more girls, the more the aggression is spread out. Less fighting.
Is your tank cycled? You need to cycle it before adding the girls, because adding to many girls at once will be too much of a bioload on the filter.
I reccomend at least 5 girls to start. Add the least aggressive fish first, the most aggressive last. You need to be able to watch them for a few hours and be able to interfere if needed, so make sure you have the time for at least two to three days to watch them at first. 
When you readd the fish again (after getting more), rearrange the plants.
Will you have a place to put any girls that are too aggressive to live in the sorority? 

Honestly, I don't think you should be making a sorority, if what I see in your signature is true. :/ You should divide your tank and put the fish that are in the .5 gallon tanks and a pickle jar in this 20 gallon tank. 
:/


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## bettafreak33 (Jan 30, 2011)

kathstew said:


> Honestly, I don't think you should be making a sorority, if what I see in your signature is true. :/ You should divide your tank and put the fish that are in the .5 gallon tanks and a pickle jar in this 20 gallon tank.
> :/


 Agreed.They would be MUCH happier in a 4-5 gal space.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

I had to take out Cleo, she almost killed shoes and Annie. There are 3 in there now and they are quite content. Annie is the boss, though Beans can't seem to calm down enough to eat...

I put Cleo in my extra pickle jar, and she is quite fine. She is next to Philip and the sorority.

I'll have you know that Philip lived in a .5 gallon until just last march! Hes 5 years old and the biggest Betta I've ever seen!

Tigger and Nez are quite fine too. almost all the tanks are temporary until probably next year!

My girls are fine with there only being 3 of them. I bought the 4 for around $12 at petco. For a first sorority, they are doing quite fine!

The 4 fish in .5 and pickle jars are all small enough for it to work until next year, when I'll probably get one of those long bookshelf tanks and divide it up for Tigger, Nez, Dragon, and Cleo. 

My mom also said shed help me breed Tigger and Cleo, just to test the waters and see if it goes well.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

I plan on getting HM and CT girls to put in there as well.

My tank isn't cycled, but I can clean it just as well as my other tanks. We have a 75 gallon that we clean like 3 times a year! It has 2 pleco and an oscar, probably produce just as much waste as the girls do! They are all perfectly fine!

Doing things buy the books takes a lot of work, but we work around the book, skipping pages and doing things the way we see fit and humane!


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Before you buy anymore fish, I suggest that you upgrade your tanks. 
.5 gallons is _not_ a good home for any kind of fish. 
Neither is a pickle jar... -__-


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

Mkay, whatever.... Apparently the simple things aren't good enough for everyone.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

My fish are just fine where they are, I can do what I please. Playing by the books isn't fun. There is a breeder who keeps all their fish in pickle jars and they are pretty successful!

I'm going to stop talking now and I'm dropping it.

I asked fro sorority help, I got it. Take Cleo out. Its done. Annie, Shoes, and Beans are just fine as well as the rest of them. I'll upgrade my tanks when I see suitable, I'll add more girls to the sorority.
My mom and I plan on breeding Tigger and Cleo next year. I'll probably keep some of the girls and they will be in the sorority.

Thank you for your help guys.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

What the point in asking for help if you think you've got all the answers? 

Good luck with your fish. For the sake of those girls I hope none of them decide to kill each other.... Experience has taught me that in volatile set ups like yours its only a matter of time.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

I don't have all the answers... thats why I ask questions. but its done. Cleos in a jar, and the other 3 are doing fine!


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

We aren't bashing you, calm down. The members on here are just trying to help your fish. 
"Playing by the books isn't fun" ? The books have _hard evidence_ that a .5 gal minimizes the lifespan of fish. And the reason why the breeder keeps them in pickle jars is because those fish are breeding stock, not pets... 
And what do you mean by "simple things"? Sure a pickle jar may be simple, but it's high maintenance! You should be doing water changes on every tank you have every other day (minus the sorority tank).

Maybe in a year you might have enough insight to breed, but before then, please take care of your current fish. I've seen far too many people on this site coming up and saying "blah blah blah my fish are fine and they live in .25 gallons and I never change their water and they have been alive for years blah blah!" 
It just gets annoying that everyone on here is nothing but helpful to you and you go and say you don't wanna "play by the books" because it's "boring"? Please...


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> What the point in asking for help if you think you've got all the answers?



+999999999999999999999999999999999999999


There's no point asking for help if you aren't doing things right to begin with in the first place.
If you think you've got all the answers fine. Don't ask for help.

Edit: For god's sake don't breed. I hope nobody helps you. I really do, because honestly, I don't think you deserve help. This is irresponsible behaviour on your part. 

No one will help you if you purposely don't things because its "boring". Keeping a betta fish in a PICKLE JAR is like locking you into a tiny bathroom, and expecting you to live fine. Its cruel and INHUMANE. ITS WRONG. Whatever.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

Mkay.

I just want to put it out there:

I clean all my fish tanks every other day, if not, every 2 days.

The sorority is new. I'll be doing water changes on it twice a week, and every month, I'll take the girls out and clean it.

My mom said that she would be willing to help me try it out. It isn't a guaranteed breeding thing, we are simply trying it out. I'll keep some of the girls fro the sorority and if my mom decides breeding tanks to much, we will convert the 20 gallon into a divided tank fro Tigger, Nez, and Cleo.

My parents have owned fish for the past 12 years. We upgrade tanks as needed.We've gone through 3-4 tanks for the oscars and plecos.

Just so its out there. Not trying to be all "My way is better. I know so much about bettas"

I was kind of like what you described a few years ago gnats.
But after we upgraded Philips tank I got more educated and started making plans for my fish.

I have a rough manner about me, and it probably irritates the crap outta people, sorry if it does. I'll try to tone it down.

Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Just take the advice that the knowledgeable people give you...
Trust me, it's for the betterment of your fish.


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## PhilipPhish (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll try my best to get the rest of the things for the sorority... I really shouldn't have jumped into it like that. I think they should be OK if I do water changes and clean there tank once a week until I can get a filter.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Sororities can be very tricky. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I would listen to the advice of those members who have experience with sororities.


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