# Cloudy, Swollen Eyes?



## Alchaeon (May 26, 2011)

*Housing *
What size is your tank? Split 10gal
What temperature is your tank? 80-82 F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

*Food*
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Top Fin Color Enhancing Betta Bits
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice daily; 3 in the morning and 3 at night

*Maintenance *
How often do you perform a water change? Once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%, we did a 100% change last night
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? AquaSafe Water Conditioner


*Symptoms and Treatment*
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Eyes are clouded and swollen, slightly paler than usual.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? When I first got her she was very aggressive and flared at the male on the other side of the tank. She now spends all of her time resting on the bottom of the tank and hasn't eaten in two days. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? About three days ago, when I got home from work.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Added Aquarium salt to the tank, but nothing beyond that.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? I've only had her for about two weeks.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Bought her from Walmart, so I really have no idea.


I did a 100% water change and took out all of the plants and decorations and scrubbed them with vinegar and hot water. Everything is clean in the tank, the water was conditioned, but I don't see any improvement. Her tank mate looks like his eyes are a bit swollen too but they're not cloudy at all.

Any ideas?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I can't say for sure but it looks like cloudy eye which is caused by poor water quality. But you have a filter and you've been changing the water, right? Okay. Let's see. First of all, I just learned that big water changes (like 100%) in a cycled tank can kill the bacteria. Maybe that's what's wrong? Try changing only 25% of the water but change it every day. If your tank was completely cycled, you may have to do a mini-cycle later. Continue with the aquarium salt and test every day for ammonia and nitrite. If you get a test result that's over the safe zone, usually .25 ppm for ammonia, do a 25% water change. If her eyes stay cloudy after a few days, then there may be something else going on. Is she eating okay otherwise?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> I can't say for sure but it looks like cloudy eye which is caused by poor water quality. But you have a filter and you've been changing the water, right? Okay. Let's see. First of all, I just learned that big water changes (like 100%) in a cycled tank can kill the bacteria. Maybe that's what's wrong? Try changing only 25% of the water but change it every day. If your tank was completely cycled, you may have to do a mini-cycle later. Continue with the aquarium salt and test every day for ammonia and nitrite. If you get a test result that's over the safe zone, usually .25 ppm for ammonia, do a 25% water change. If her eyes stay cloudy after a few days, then there may be something else going on. Is she eating okay otherwise?


She has not been eating. The last time she ate was while she was in a salt bath a few days ago. She only ate 1 pellet of food. She is also going to the surface for air more frequently than a normal betta would and afterwards she dives straight for the bottom to sit.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I would suggest doing a 25-50% water change every day for at least a week to keep the water as clean as possible. If there's no improvement, it's possible she has a secondary infection in which case we can try meds or aquarium salts.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

She has not improved any despite being on the last day of a 5 day treatment of Sentry AQ Mardel's Maracyn She has been getting the full 10G does each day since she has remained in her side of the 10 gallon tank.

She is looking quite bloated and is starting to lose more color. Instead of her vibrant greenish blue from the first few days she has turned into a dull brownish green with her head turning a dark grayish color that has spread to her dorsal fin. Her stomach area has turned into a pale yellow.

There has been no improvement for her eyes other than the swelling decreasing. They are still just as cloudy and I fear she cannot see. Her behavior remains lethargic and she has not eaten since before her treatment started.

Should I change her water tomorrow and start another course of maracyn or should I try some other medication? I am willing to do additional salt baths but if she goes on maracyn again I cannot do water changes while she is being treated.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Ugh, this isn't sounding so good. I don't like the fact that she stayed on her side the entire time. At this point, I would PM Oldfishlady. She'll have a much better idea of what to do. I'm worried about the bloating in your girl. I'm sorry I couldn't be of much help but I'm pulling for you and your girl. I hope she gets better really soon. Hang in there!


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Ugh, this isn't sounding so good. I don't like the fact that she stayed on her side the entire time. At this point, I would PM Oldfishlady. She'll have a much better idea of what to do. I'm worried about the bloating in your girl. I'm sorry I couldn't be of much help but I'm pulling for you and your girl. I hope she gets better really soon. Hang in there!


Thanks for you advice. I'm going to go to the store to try for some parasite medication since it doesn't seem to be popeye. Probably go for maracyn-2 since it says it treats internal infections.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Pataflafla said:


> Thanks for you advice. I'm going to go to the store to try for some parasite medication since it doesn't seem to be popeye. Probably go for maracyn-2 since it says it treats internal infections.


We may not get the chance to treat her since she has started to pinecone. We have her in a quarantine tank with epsom and aquarium salt that should be getting to around 80 degrees or so any time now.

Is there anything I should worry about for Ratchet's sake? He was on the other side of the 10 gal while all of this was happening and I don't want him to get sick again since he's just getting back to health after walmart care.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The best thing to do is clean the tank really well. Wash it with hot water and vinegar. Rinse it really well and let it dry in the sun a while. That should sterilize it. After that, all you can do is keep an eye on Ratchet. If you feel comfortable with the idea, you can also add 1/2 tsp per gallon of aquarium salt to the tank as a preventative measure. 

I'm sorry about your girl. If it seems like she's suffering and you want to put her out of her pain, post immediately and we can discuss euthanization methods. I'll be checking in until probably 2 AM Pacific time. Otherwise, get her in the salts and keep her comfortable.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> The best thing to do is clean the tank really well. Wash it with hot water and vinegar. Rinse it really well and let it dry in the sun a while. That should sterilize it. After that, all you can do is keep an eye on Ratchet. If you feel comfortable with the idea, you can also add 1/2 tsp per gallon of aquarium salt to the tank as a preventative measure.
> 
> I'm sorry about your girl. If it seems like she's suffering and you want to put her out of her pain, post immediately and we can discuss euthanization methods. I'll be checking in until probably 2 AM Pacific time. Otherwise, get her in the salts and keep her comfortable.


My sister wants to try a day or two with epsom salt and maybe some parasite medications, but otherwise we're considering clove oil since it seems the most humane method for euthanization. It all depends on whether we can find any in town or not. She's willing to order some though, so we probably won't have to resort to any of the more brutal methods.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sounds like a plan. It may work, you just never know. I certainly hope it does. The most humane euthanization method is the method that is also the absolute hardest to do, and that's decapitation. If you can, you might consider taking her to a veterinarian for euthanization. It will spare you the trauma.  But I really, really, really hope the medicine and salts work. I'll be thinking of you.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Sounds like a plan. It may work, you just never know. I certainly hope it does. The most humane euthanization method is the method that is also the absolute hardest to do, and that's decapitation. If you can, you might consider taking her to a veterinarian for euthanization. It will spare you the trauma.  But I really, really, really hope the medicine and salts work. I'll be thinking of you.


I don't think here will be any vets in this dinky town willing enough to spare a few minutes for a little fish. If worse comes to worse, I'll get the job done as quickly as I can out of sight from my sister. She won't be able to do any sort of euthanization method other than clove oil.

I'm hoping she'll pull through since she's still interested a little bit in exploring a new tank and sleeping on the heater like the first few days we bought her. My sister suspects kidney failure however, but I hope that's not the case.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sadly organ failure can cause the severe bloat you're seeing.  It causes fluids to build up, which pushes against the scales and makes them pinecone. But she may still pull through. As long as she's not suffering, she deserves every chance.

Have you researched using clove oil? I've never used it . . .


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Sadly organ failure can cause the severe bloat you're seeing.  It causes fluids to build up, which pushes against the scales and makes them pinecone. But she may still pull through. As long as she's not suffering, she deserves every chance.
> 
> Have you researched using clove oil? I've never used it . . .


I've read several of the threads started up tor euth options so I'll looks those back up if need be. It sounds like a more peaceful method than any of the other ones.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I sincerely hope you never have to use any of them, though.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Epsom salt 2tsp/gal, tannins along with 100% daily water changes while in a small QT container floating in a heated tank to maintain 76-77F temp....if she is really bad increase to 3tsp/gal after 24h in the 2tsp/gal....good luck and keep us posted......


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Epsom salt 2tsp/gal, tannins along with 100% daily water changes while in a small QT container floating in a heated tank to maintain 76-77F temp....if she is really bad increase to 3tsp/gal after 24h in the 2tsp/gal....good luck and keep us posted......


Thanks for the advice. We'll try those today since she's just currently on 1 tsp/gal right now. We'll bump it up and also add parasite medicine since she keeps bloating without eating.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

But she made it through the night, that's a good sign.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> But she made it through the night, that's a good sign.


It is but she's also started to display more signs of dropsy. We're hoping she improves with the added salt and parasite medication. She'll be getting a 100% water change in the morning and we'll keep her on the 2 tsp of epsom salt for now. She's been given a 10 day period to show improvement unless she declines farther.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm rooting for her. She sounds like she has a fighting spirit and you and your sister and taking really great care of her. Keep us posted.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

She jumped out of her tank sometime last night and was dry when my sister found her in the morning. She's no longer pineconed at the moment but she is having trouble staying upright. We're gonna wait and see how she is doing at the end of the day to make any decisions.

The best we can do for keeping her alive right now is keeping her tank dark while the epsom salt hopefully works.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Goodness, she has energy still, that's for sure. I never would have expected her to take a leap like that.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Goodness, she has energy still, that's for sure. I never would have expected her to take a leap like that.


I didn't either. Especially since we had a pillow case over the tank to keep it dark.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Unfortunately she will not make it. Her condition has worsened severely since yesterday and she may pass on her own very soon. We're giving her until 7 pm tonight before we take over.

She has started to pinecone again and either faces the bottom directly or the top directly. Her breathing is very shallow and she may have just passed.


----------



## ds2009 (Sep 13, 2010)

I hate to say it but it sounds like the best thing to do now would be to euthanize her. I just did it for my poor boy a few days ago using clove oil. If youre interested in that you can get it in any pharmacy, just ask the person behind the counter. What you do is you put her in a small cup or something and add a few drops every few minutes for 15-30 minutes. This should make her sleepy and eventually as you keep doing this she will fall asleep and overdose painlessly. I think that this is the most humane way to euthanize a fish and it is the least traumatizing on the owner :c


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

ds2009 said:


> I hate to say it but it sounds like the best thing to do now would be to euthanize her. I just did it for my poor boy a few days ago using clove oil. If youre interested in that you can get it in any pharmacy, just ask the person behind the counter. What you do is you put her in a small cup or something and add a few drops every few minutes for 15-30 minutes. This should make her sleepy and eventually as you keep doing this she will fall asleep and overdose painlessly. I think that this is the most humane way to euthanize a fish and it is the least traumatizing on the owner :c


She passed while I was typing that last message. My sister just wanted to give her a few minutes to respond and she didn't. She passed on her own and looked very relaxed and at ease.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pataflafla, I'm so sorry to hear she passed.  You and your sister really put a lot of effort into caring for her and I'm sure she realized that - fish are more perceptive than we think. She probably just had too much stress going on, especially since she jumped out, pillowcase and all. I'm also glad that she passed on her own so you didn't have to face any hard decisions or situations. Is Ratchet doing okay?


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Pataflafla, I'm so sorry to hear she passed.  You and your sister really put a lot of effort into caring for her and I'm sure she realized that - fish are more perceptive than we think. She probably just had too much stress going on, especially since she jumped out, pillowcase and all. I'm also glad that she passed on her own so you didn't have to face any hard decisions or situations. Is Ratchet doing okay?


Ratchet is doing wonderfully. He's actively patrolling his side of the tank since there's a male on the other side of the divider now. He's getting some beautiful color to him now. He's still light gray, but it's also really bluish. He's a completely different fish than the first day I got him. He's definitely the most aggressive betta I've ever had. He puts my female from years ago to shame.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad to hear Ratchet is doing okay. He sounds like a character.


----------



## ds2009 (Sep 13, 2010)

Im sorry that she passed, im sure she passed painlessly and lived a great life with you :c


----------

