# Fishless cycling...what am I doing wrong??



## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

I currently have three tanks...I moved the juvenile betta to a 2.5 gal (ok, so I have 4 tanks) so I could fishless cycle his 5.5, then use it to seed the other two. I had been changing water 50% every other day while he was in there, for about 2 1/2 months. Even though it wasnt cycled I used some filter media from that tank in the two other tanks' filters when setting them up, since i figured it couldnt hurt, and I continued changing water every other day in those two in the meantime.

It's been two weeks of fishless cycling with ammonia, I had high nitrites for a day, then they were gone, never nitrates. The ammonia just wasnt moving. After a week it went down to 4 from 5ppm, I dosed a little again today. I know this part of the cycle can take a long time but it seems like nothing is happening at all, ammonia isn't even going down. Temp is 84, ph is 7.6. 

I wouldnt be too worried about it, except now in the fish IN tanks, today the 10g had 0 ammonia, VERY high nitrites (don't worry, I took care of it), and 10ppm nitrates. In the other 5.5 gal with one betta (which has only been set up maybe 3 weeks) today I did a 100% wc, rinsed out the tank itself with hot water and replaced the gravel with sand...a couple hours later that tank had 0 ammonia, low nitrites and 0 nitrate. My tap water has .5ppm ammonia so I was shocked to see that number, especially after such a huge change.

Anyway, that was long...what am I doing wrong in the fishless tank?? At this rate the other tanks will be cycled and ill be seeding that one from the others! Sorry that was long, and I hope it made sense. I'm just frustrated and I don't know what I'm missing here. Am I not dosing ammonia enough?? I only added more twice, because it wasn't going down much if at all. Should I dose a tiny bit every day or two regardless? I added conditioned water to it two days ago, because the water level went down and the splashing from the filter was too noisy. I don't know. Help? I'm about to just scrap the fishless cycle and seed this tank from the 10g in a week or two. :-?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay have you been dosing your ammonia and checking that tank every day?


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

I haven't been dosing every day...I was going off a thread that said to dose initially, then add ammonia as needed, but my ammonia never seemed to come down, so I only added more a few times because it never dropped below 4-5ppm. Is that where I went wrong, should I be lightly dosing daily regardless? I have needed to add water twice, and my tap water has .5ppm so I figured that was kind of like dosing .5ppm...no?

I was looking at a thread on another forum where someone said to dose ammonia daily, that extremely high ammonia doesn't stall the cycle and to just slam the tank with ammonia until it handles it, but I'm only stocking one betta in this tank, so it's not ever going to need to handle a huge bioload.
I don't know. I thought I had this figured out and I could get it squared away in a couple weeks but I'm doing something wrong. It was 4ppm earlier, I dosed about .25 ml a few nods ago, I'll test it again in the morning.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, yeah sorry I didn't mean dose daily regardless. You dose every time the ammonia drops from 4ppm. 4ppm is a good place to be at, anything over 5ppm will stall the cycle and so from 2-4ppm is a good place to be, it will go faster. I know it won't need to have a huge bio-load but it will go faster the more you put in, at least under 5ppm.

So you've been doing it right. And you do have filter, that's important lol and actually extra aeration will help the BB grow, I know it's noisy but it will help. I usually recommend to let the water line drop so that it does splash but the added heat should really help them, don't know why it's not.

I know sometimes the cycle, even Fish-less can go slower and be almost a Fish-In cycle but regardless, it will eventually cycle and it will be better off for your fish anyway, so just be patient  it doesn't always happen in just two weeks.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok, thanks. It's just frustrating to see the other tanks progressing quicker...diamond sky's tank is only 3 weeks old, and I just replaced all the substrate and rinsed it all with hot water and its still processing ammonia! And I took filter media from the fishless tank and put it in his filter when I set up his tank, so it's confusing to see his tank using whatever kick start he got from that, but the other tank just doing nothing.

bubblefishys temporary home is in the kitchen, I caught him flaring at a frying pan.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lol that's cute about Bubblefishy XD silly boy, he want's too cook? That'd be the first time a man said that to me!! haha j/k

Yeah it is frustrating that I know. I hope it does pick up soon because you really haven't done anything wrong :-(


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Alright I got annoyed too soon. Yesterday ammonia was 4ppm, I dosed a small amount, but I didn't test it again until today, today it was 4ppm still and I finally had nitrites, between .25 and .5ppm. Hooray. I don't know what the ammonia went up to after my dose yesterday, but I went back to 4, so I guess it went down from whatever I dosed it to. 

Do you think I should add another small dose of ammonia today, or just wait and test again tomorrow?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Only add ammonia when it's under 4ppm because you don't want to stall your cycle and then you'll be angry at that haha, so just be patient and it will work ^_^


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

In a 5g tank, a single Betta won't produce >0.01ppm/day ammonia. Now that you're seeing nitrite you can cut back on your ammonia dosing. This will speed up your cycle a little. If your tank can process ~1.0ppm/day ammonia, you're cycled (if you're seeing nitrate).

Of course, use Prime with water changes to detoxify your sourcewater.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

From the last time I dosed it and went down to 4ppm it still hasn't budged! I still have barely detectable nitrites, they haven't gone up at all. 0-.25ppm. Not .25, but definitely reading higher than my tap water. Yesterday I got my hands on some gravel from an established tank and I put it in a stocking and put it in my filter, I'll test it again in a little while. If that doesn't move anything, maybe I should do a water change??


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

It never hurts to do a water change (even a large one) during cycling. Gets everything reset and under control. Seeded gravel in a sock in the filter is optimum.

Keep your temp >82*, filter on high and the tank as dark as your plants allow.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Alright, they both moved a tiny bit...ammonia went down to a little under 4, nitrite went up to a solid .25. I did a 50% wc. Now, since my tap water contains .5ppm of ammonia, that won't exactly cut the ammonia reading in half, correct?

I ask because in my other tank with fish in it I have been trying to lower nitrites, but im having trouble...I'm wondering if doing water changes and adding water with .5ppm ammonia is making it worse instead of better. Is the new water just adding fuel to the fire by feeding the ammonia bacteria and creating more nitrite? Ive been googling and trying to figure out if I'm assuming correctly but I can't find a real answer.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yes adding sourcewater with ammonia in it will add to nitrite. In your populated tanks, you should be using Prime to mitigate that high ammonia level. Prime will convert the ammonia to ammonium, which is good for your livestock, but ammonium still gets converted to nitrite. If there is chloramine in the sourcewater, that will be converted into chlorine and ammonia, both of which are handled by Prime, but thats still more nitrite.

Cutting back on feeding, keeping a meticulously clean tank, keeps ammonia down which keeps nitrite down etc....

Live plants provide the best solution by eating most of your ammonia before it gets converted to nitrite.

After those tanks get cycled and established, your fish will enjoy better water quality than you will.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok thank you. That's what I've been doing, using prime, reduced feeding and removing waste daily. I have white sand so it's easy to get all or most of it. And I believe that, that their water will be better than mine...our tap water tastes funky and isn't clear. 

I'm admittedly a little intimated by live plants, but I'll do some research and see if I can find one that doesn't scare me. The only thing in there now is a giant moss ball, but I understand they don't use much ammonia because they grow so slowly.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Check on the plant section of the forum. But I think having floating plants (Wisteria, water sprite, duckweed, etc.( that eat a lot of ammonia is the easiest way to go. It's good backup for your bacteria. They also provide shade and hides near the surface. Fish like that.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah water wisteria, water sprite, cabomda, Anacharis, Elodea, Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss and Common Cryptocorynes are the ones that come to mind ^_^ all easy to grow and low light plants 

It's really not hard for low light plants, stick 'em in the gravel (except Anubias and java Fern) and keep the lights on at least 8 hours minimum, I do 10 hours though. And then some liquid ferts (I like SeaChem Flourish Comprehensive, 1 drop per gallon once a week) and maybe some root tabs if you feel like it and boom, you've got a planted tank ^_^


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm going to go to the lfs store and see what they have as far as plants. In the meantime, how do I lower the nitrites without water changes?? I already remove waste, reduced feeding, but will they go down without water changes? Or should I just try to get plants ASAP, and then when I change the water to lower nitrite they'll eat up some of that ammonia in the new water so it doesn't feed the nitrite causing bacteria?

I think a light bulb just went on in my head, ha.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

You correctly understand the nitrogen cycle. On a pretty subtle level, too. As for the nitrite: water changes in the populated tanks. And a water change in the fishless when nitrite gets>4.0ppm and nitrate >40ppm. (But by that time you're cycled.)


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

You certainly understand the fundamentals of the nitrogen cycle very well. For the populated tanks: cleanliness and water changes to keep nitrite >0.25ppm. In the fishless, change water when nitrite gets >4.0ppm and nitrate >40ppm. (But by that time you're cycled.)

You can always try Tetra Safestart. But I think you're too close to done. Patience is cheaper.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok I'm getting excited about plants now. I called the fishy store to ask what they carry, and he said their selection is huge, they couldn't even tell me on the phone because they have everything. I mentioned how petsmarts plants are $9-$12 each and I've heard they're not great, and he was like "no no no no no!!! come in, ours are $2.99 each, direct to us from the nursery and top quality!".

At $3 each I can afford a whole bunch! I'm going later, I should have figured this place could help me. It's such a big, quality fish store that some of the schools around there actually take field trips there to learn about fish. They have a pond with a catfish the size of my three year old in it.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

OMG, I want that store, can I come with you??? lol That's totally awesome!!!

It's always easier to do a planted tank when your plants actually come in healthy XD lol of course I started with PetCo/PetSmart plants but I won't be buying those again compared to my LFS's plants now! So that's awesome and I'm super excited for you! lol


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Ok, I went. They started at 2.99, some of the bigger ones were a little more expensive. They had them all either potted or floating in the fish tanks. I got one anubias, one anacharis and a third that I don't even remember, ha ha...hornwort maybe? It looks a little like the anacharis. I wish I bought more, I may go back. I only spent $11, then I got a piece of driftwood for another $5.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Good to go. Mixed it in with the silk plants I had already. Sorry I forgot to bring you with me! Next time!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hard to tell but it looks like Cabomda, might be Hornwort though. Lookin good!! And driftwood for 5?!?!? Seriously wtf! Our lowest ones start at 8.99 >.> lol I'm totally going with you next time XD haha


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Oh, maybe it is cabomba! Now that you say that it sounds right, I just couldn't remember what she said at the store. Some duckweed hitched a ride, too, I'm going to leave that and see what it does.

As my fishless cycling tank is still doing very little. Hmmph.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Usually Cabomda you plant so you might want to do that, Anacharis is fine floating but my Cabomda never did well if left to float is all.


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

*Fishless cycling*



JamieL said:


> From the last time I dosed it and went down to 4ppm it still hasn't budged! I still have barely detectable nitrites, they haven't gone up at all. 0-.25ppm. Not .25, but definitely reading higher than my tap water. Yesterday I got my hands on some gravel from an established tank and I put it in a stocking and put it in my filter, I'll test it again in a little while. If that doesn't move anything, maybe I should do a water change??


What is the difference between 0-.25 and .25?

The only thing I think you have done wrong is being impatient, if that. Slow down and watch the process. 

There is a maxim in fishkeeping = Nothing that happens fast in fishkeeping is good. I had similar fishless cycling because like you I got frustrated pushing for something to happen. Follow the procedure and it will.

Don't jump from one procedure to another and expect something good to occur.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Usually Cabomda you plant so you might want to do that, Anacharis is fine floating but my Cabomda never did well if left to float is all.


Yes, I read that when I googled about it. I didn't know because it was floating in the tank at the store, but I'll shuffle some things around tomorrow. I'm not exactly sure what to do with the anubias either, the roots are ok in the sand as long as the rhizome isn't buried?


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

FirstBetta said:


> What is the difference between 0-.25 and .25?
> 
> The only thing I think you have done wrong is being impatient, if that. Slow down and watch the process.
> 
> ...


What I meant by that was not reading .25 but still reading slightly darker than 0. I know this can be a long process, but everything I've read talks about testing and dosing as needed, but in 20 days the only change I've gotten in the ammonia was when I did a small water change. I thought at some point the ammonia would eventually start to go down at least a little. It's frustrating to test every day and see exactly the same readings day after day for weeks. I was hoping to fishless cycle this tank and seed the other two tanks from this one. But the two tanks with fish in them are blowing past this one, and they get a pwc every two days because I'm paranoid about my crappy chloramine tap water affecting them! The one fish-in tank has only been set up only about as long as this is fishless cycling and already has 0 ammonia, low nitrites and trace nitrates.

I'm trying to be patient, but it just seems like nothing EVER changes.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes the roots will be fine as long as the rhizome is not buried. I actually have one of my anubias's roots in the sand in Ditto's 3 gallon if you saw that tank on that thread. Not sure if you can see it or not but ones in the sand and the other is in the hole of the driftwood


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Good advice form FB re: patience. Could be more bacteria fell into your fish-in tanks.

All my fish like to hide and sleep in their floating Anubias. I have more Anubias than anything --- tied to rocks and lots floating.

0-.25 is nonstandard terminology, as Jamie explained. To be strictly correct (like you want to impress the physicists and engineers among us) readings should be expressed as eg: 0.25ppm; 1.50ppm; 5.0ppm; etc. The zero starts and/or stops the count and emphasizes the decimal point so there is less chance to misread. And the ppm describes what the numbers refer to. We use the more than sign > and the less than sign < a lot around here.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> Good advice form FB re: patience. Could be more bacteria fell into your fish-in tanks.
> 
> All my fish like to hide and sleep in their floating Anubias. I have more Anubias than anything --- tied to rocks and lots floating.


Being patient sucks!

How do you have your anubias floating, just floating on its own, roots flying free and stuff? I want to get at least one more, I really like the one I have, and its a hell of a lot neater than the other one with all the needles dropping everywhere. I just put the one I have with the roots in the sand but the rhizome (and some of the roots) above the sand, and I just placed some black rocks around the base to hide the root. My betta either sleeps on the hammock, or on the tall leaves of the silk plant, so I'm either going to leave one tall silk plant in, unless I can get something live that's tall enough for where he likes to sleep. Maybe I can suction cup an anubias to the side where he sleeps?

I did a water change in this tank yesterday, nitrite was 0.25ppm a couple hours after the change, then this morning it shot up to 2ppm! I hope I can get this under control soon. :shock:


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

JamieL said:


> How do you have your anubias floating, just floating on its own, roots flying free and stuff?


Yep. That way it's easy to get out of the way of your siphon. Oh..They also like to build bubble nests under the broad leaves.




JamieL said:


> I did a water change in this tank yesterday, nitrite was 0.25ppm a couple hours after the change, then this morning it shot up to 2ppm! I hope I can get this under control soon.


Persistent nitrite is one of the more frustrating conditions to deal with. Your ammonia eaters are working overtime, and your nitrite eaters are still developing. Minimize ammonia by cleaning, feed sparingly and water changes (2.0ppm nitrite is way too high.)



JamieL said:


> Being patient sucks!


Il love that Gary Larsen cartoon: Two vultures sitting on a branch. One says to the other, "Patience, hell. I'm gonna kill something.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Well after the last nitrite spike I added 2 more anubias, so since I added the 5 or so plants the tank is now reading 0ppm across the board. I'm going to check in a day or two to see if the nitrates start creeping back up. But I'm sold...I'm going out tomorrow for plants for my other tank. I don't know if it was the plants or if the nitrites just finally broke on their own, but they disappeared overnight, so I'm a believer.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Just keep in mind that a planted tank is a whole new can of worms. The plants in themselves become an obsession and finding the balance between healthy plants and healthy livestock can take some time. 

Rick


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

rickey said:


> Just keep in mind that a planted tank is a whole new can of worms. The plants in themselves become an obsession and finding the balance between healthy plants and healthy livestock can take some time.
> 
> Rick


I was avoiding plants for that reason, since it was another thing to learn about and maintain, but I'm really enjoying them, and the fish seem to be as well. I'm just trying to do a lot of research, and get lower maintenance plants. I bought seachem flourish, but I haven't used it yet. I already had 50/50 daylight bulbs in the tank, so I'll probably buy the same bulb for the other tank.


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

In the interest of making it easier to understand for old geezer like me, what you want to type is ">0<.25. Not being picky, nor do I wish to insult you but that is the correct way to state that data.

I'm a retired engineer so I tend to be overly correct.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

or a Molarity of 4.2585 mcg NH3/L 

Rick


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Hehehe...this is good. LoL

Actually, as a retired engineer I would state that as >0.00,<0.25ppm. See my post #31 for my rationale. Using two decimal places agrees with the increments on the test cards... beyond which one interpolates or extrapolates at ones own risk. ;-)

How'd you get the molarity equivalency, Rick? I would state that as: 4.2585mcg/L NH3 _or_ NH3 of 4.2585mcg/L... just to keep the delimiter and element expressions separated.

You're welcome, FB.


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

As the daughter, granddaughter, neice, and cousin of more engineers and engineering professors than I can count...I love the last three posts on this thread.  LOL!

I can still remember building a tack trunk for the barn when I was child, and my father measuring everything to the last millimeter...I thought he was going to tongue and groove the thing before it was all over (because that would be the strongest way to put it together...Nevermind that I was just looking to make a box with a lid to throw muddy boots into...)  You have to love engineers.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Ahhh, Bluefish, you made me giggle. 

I remember you were around last year when some of us were proving it was easy to cycle small (2.5g) tanks. IIRC, you reinvented the bucket cycle. Delighted to see you again.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Alright, the nitrites are finally starting to creep up...but my daughter is in tears over her fishy after 32 days. Suppose I switch...return him to his 5.5 and put the filter on the 2.5 he's been in to cycle in there, will I lose the progress I've made so far?


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## FirstBetta (Jun 14, 2013)

When you start talking about molearity you loose me. That's chemistry and I never liked the subject and obviously didn't understand most of it. After acids and bases you are talking Swahili as far as I'm concerned.LOL


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

JamieL said:


> Suppose I switch...return him to his 5.5 and put the filter on the 2.5 he's been in to cycle in there, will I lose the progress I've made so far?


You won't lose anything, Jamie. Any bacteria already in the display tank may become dormant but will stay alive (as long as they're kept wet). Your filter will continue to cycle in the 2.5g "bucket." Go ahead and give her back her fishy.

Keep a close eye on the parameters is all.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

FirstBetta said:


> When you start talking about molearity you loose me. That's chemistry and I never liked the subject and obviously didn't understand most of it. After acids and bases you are talking Swahili as far as I'm concerned.LOL


As the only chemist on the forum I was just pulling the engineers chains . It has no bearing on Jamie's tank what so ever.

Rick


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> You won't lose anything, Jamie. Any bacteria already in the display tank may become dormant but will stay alive (as long as they're kept wet). Your filter will continue to cycle in the 2.5g "bucket." Go ahead and give her back her fishy.
> 
> Keep a close eye on the parameters is all.


I switched them, thanks. I wish i knew to do it this way in the first place! I thought I had to cycle the filter on the main tank, to build up bb on the decor and substrate as well for it to work. She's very happy that Bubblefishy is back in his hideous pink and purple home. She talks to him, smooches the glass, tells him goodnight. Major animal lover.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

When your cycled filter is installed in the display tank, you should have sufficient bacteria in it to convert all ammonia. As the bacteria spread throughout the tank, there will be less in the filter. The bacteria colony will grow (or shrink) to exactly match the bioload.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

A couple days ago the ammonia finally went to zero, so I dosed it to 2ppm. 24 hours later it was 0.5ppm and nitrites were 1ppm, so I dosed ammonia back up to 2ppm yesterday. Today ammonia is still 2ppm, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is 5ppm. Is this ok/good/normal? I was pretty surprised by these numbers.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I would expect the ammonia to return to 0.0ppm. Until it and the nitrite drop to 0.0ppm you're not cycled. What is your pH?


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

JamieL said:


> A couple days ago the ammonia finally went to zero, so I dosed it to 2ppm. 24 hours later it was 0.5ppm and nitrites were 1ppm, so I dosed ammonia back up to 2ppm yesterday. Today ammonia is still 2ppm, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is 5ppm. Is this ok/good/normal? I was pretty surprised by these numbers.


It's fairly normal. I'm a little surprised at ammonia being up after 24 hours but wait and see if comes down. 

Rick


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Not sure about ph. That's the only thing I didn't check because I was out of the sample water from the tank, and I just didn't bother to go back because I wanted to test the other tank (which was reading 0ppm across the board, another fish-in cycled tank which couldn't have been easier. Hmmph.). I was really surprised to see no nitrites after they steadily climbed for a few days, and I was bummed because I thought my cycle crashed somehow, but I checked nitrate anyway and saw 5ppm...then I was just confused. I had to add a little more water to compensate for evaporation, I'll check everything again tomorrow night and see where it's at in another 24 hours.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

Okay, I tested again and it's the same: ammonia 2ppm nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 5ppm, but the pH is now 6 instead of 7.6. Now I just have absolutely no clue what happened or what to do. I'm about ready to quit.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Need to get the pH up. When pH drop( and we really have no idea what the pH is because 6.0 is the lower limit of your test kit) this low you begin have problems with biological cycle. This is most likely why the cycle stalled. Add a 1/2 tsp of sodium bicarbonate this will cause the pH to rocket up but it is self limiting at 8.2

Rick


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Which is great because that is nearly the optimum pH for encouraging growth of nitrifying bacteria.

As for your mysterious pH drop. It's time for you to run a little experiment to find out :
---pH of your sourcewater
---pH of your sourcewater after vigorous shaking (to eliminate trapped gasses)
---pH of your sourcewater after sitting for24 then 48 hours

A sharp pH drop indicates insufficient buffering. Find out what your GH and, especially, KH is.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

I'll bet low kH

Rick


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, that's the most common cause of unstable pH. Fortunately it's easy to fix. That probablyv ought to be determined before "remedial" action is taken.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

I already added the baking soda. Now it's ammonia 2ppm, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph 8.2. The tap water is 7.6. After shaking it looks slightly greener, maybe between 7.2 and 7.6. I haven't done any further tests, I don't have a kit to test gh or kh. I was actually at the fish store yesterday and I left without buying anything because my daughter was being a royal pain in the ass and I couldn't shop. Might go back later on when my husband gets home so I can go alone.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

"Greener?" What brand test kit are you using? 

At 7.2pH to 7.6pH your tapwater is ideal. If it would just stay there. That's why we need to know the hardness of your tapwater. That's the KH (carbonate hardness).


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Well when you no longer have a need to pour ammonia into the tank the pH might stabilize. The nitrification process should get kicked out again in a day or two with the addition of the Bicarbonate

Rick


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

API master kit. 7.6 is blue, anything lower starts to look green.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Of course you're right. It's been so long since I've seen my low-range pH test, I'd forgotten what they looked like. The 7.6 reading is the crossover between ranges. See what it looks like using the high-range test liquid.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

This tank has become a colossal headache. I'm still not cycled, about 57 days now. It seems like the readings jump all over from day to day,nothing seems to go up or down as it should. I bought tetra safe start, and it was about to just use it and put the filter back, but now the display tank has a huge diatom problem I can't seem to get rid of. I'm guessing it's from the lack of water movement, and the light being on. I have otos in my 20L, if they weren't so sensitive I'd put them in there and let them go to town for a couple days, then move them back. I'm about to throw the whole setup out the window.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

What were the last set of numbers?
Be patent, your near record time for the longest cycle.

R


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Possibly make it into the Guinness Book of World Records? lol, sorry I know it's frustrating though.

Diatoms are normal for "newly" set up planted tanks, I say "new" because they can happen any time in I think the first month to the 4th? not entirely sure on that, more of just what I've seen. But they last for only 3-4 months and then burn themselves out never to come back to that tank again. There are no ways to get rid of them, just clean off the leaves of your plants to help them not get choked out and do you regular water changes. You just have to wait the Diatom's out, as ugly as they are. You can get an algae scrubber to scrub the glass or you can use your fingers/hand as well.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

rickey said:


> What were the last set of numbers?
> Be patent, your near record time for the longest cycle.
> 
> R


Sunday 0ppm across, dosed ammonia to 1ppm
Monday ammonia 1ppm nitrite .25ppm nitrate 0ppm
Today ammonia .25ppm nitrite 0ppm nitrate 0ppm

I guess I could just wait it out a little longer. I've been fishless cycling it for almost 60 days, but it was running on the tank before that with the fish in since may! I fish in cycled two other tanks in that time! :lol:
Lil, this one has no live plants, just a small moss ball. Gravel substrate. I guess I'll just keep wiping it off as I see it and eventually it'll go away? Or I was thinking since this tank is just sitting with no filter while I fishless cycle on the other, I could just take everything out, rinse/wash in hot water and put back.


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## JamieL (Jun 4, 2013)

I'll admit that after the ph crash I got so pissed off, and I was busy redoing another tank, that I ignored it for 4 or 5 days. (The fishless cycle, not the fish!)


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