# What is the absolute best clean-up critter?



## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

I have a twenty gallon planted tank with seven female bettas. I'd like to add a few more girls, and something low-profile that will help with the plant detritus and algae. I clean the tank weekly, but towards the end of the week it starts to look rather unsightly. 

So far I'm leaning toward the mystery snail. I'm not worried about the bio-load, but I do worry about it getting pestered to death. 

Should I put up with it, or try to add a tank mate? My substrate is sand.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I would go for a clean up team of ottos, corys, and red cherry shrimp I personally dislike snails the only kind i keep on purpose are assassin snails, in the end it is up to you and what you want to see in your tank, we have not added red cherries to our sorority tank yet as we are establishing a breeding colony in a 10 gall but soon enough we will, the corys and ottos we have in the sorority tank do a good job the corys root around and eat up any left overs and the ottos clean algae off of everything in the tank, we are trying out an albono bristlenose pleco in another tank to see how well he does at algae clean up


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

If you're looking at snails, I would look into nerites.

I have a nerite and she scrubbed my 5.5 gallon until it was sparkling clean in two days, and just about every inch of it was covered in algae, lol. The only bad thing is that they poop a lot, but I don't think your plants will mind much, lol.

Nerites have shorter antennas I guess than other snails do so the girls aren't as likely to hurt a nerite.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I would say Amano shrimp instead of RCS (Cherries). They are known as the ultimate algae cleaners.


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

I love snails! I think they're adorable! 
I'd get some Malaysian Trumpet Snails for the substrate to start. Nerite snails are awesome if you can find them.

If you like mystery snails, go on and get one. Once it gets big, you won't have enough plant detritus to keep it fed (tiny bits of leafy greens or cucumber to feed it0 but the big ones are far less likely to get harassed and they are entertaining little pets in themselves.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

The Nerite snails sound perfect! I think I'll look for a few of those. Thanks for all the suggestions! My husband loves plecos, but I want something that will get the job done.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I own some otos, and they keep my tank practically immaculate. I have them in a 10gal with 2 rabbit snails and Golem. I substitute their diet with wafers and zucchini. They have a tendency to be a little sensitive as well.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

The otos do look cool... I tried corydoras a while back, and didn't have much luck. My sorority is thriving so far; everything is peaceful and the younger girls are growing nicely. I have a passion for invertebrates- I am also a tarantula keeper. I like the shrimp, but I have a feeling that snails would have better luck avoiding the inevitable nips. Especially some drab, olive-colored nerites.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

The best cleanup crew are Malaysian trumpet snails - they eat almost everything, including fish poop. Not much for algae though, but I don't consider algae removal part of clean up.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

The algae doesn't bother me quite as bad as the plant detritus and the poo. Everything stands out on the white sand.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

*Here is a picture*

This is right next to the Java Moss.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

White sand is hard to keep white. But I think trumpet snails will help quite a bit.


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm not sure that snails would help you problem because they poop ALOT so even if they're cleaning the other stuff you'll have their poop to deal with.... also snails breed like crazy!! some snails can reproduce on their own but I'm not sure which kind...


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

Snails produce more waste than they will ever clean. That is because critters that eat algae have to eat a lot of it. The best cleaner of a tank is you.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

I wish I could switch to black, but they don't sell it in my area and I feel that shipping cost would be prohibitive. I will look into the trumpet snails also. It has been less than a week since I've done a 25% water change and the floor of the tank already looks like that.


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

See my tanks with white paths here..always clean... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=129515&page=28


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

Maybe I ought to just put up with it. My water parameters are fine...


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

keepsmiling said:


> See my tanks with white paths here..always clean... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=129515&page=28


Is that soil on the bottom? Like a NPT?


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

I have black gravel in my 5gs and the poop stands out alot... I have two 3gs coming in the mail that are suppose to arrive today, I'm putting black sand in them so I can let you know if it hides poop better than white sand!


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

It is aquasoil and fine sand in some. The one towards the end with bright colors was my first, a ten gallon. It had that black ecocomplete. I used to be inundated with malaysian trumpet snails. I cannot tell you how disgusting those tanks were when I finally broke them down. All from snail poop!


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

keepsmiling said:


> It is aquasoil and fine sand in some. The one towards the end with bright colors was my first, a ten gallon. It had that black ecocomplete. I used to be inundated with malaysian trumpet snails. I cannot tell you how disgusting those tanks were when I finally broke them down. All from snail poop!


Those tanks are beautiful! You don't have any plants planted directly in the sand do you?


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## jesssan2442 (Feb 19, 2013)

keepsmiling: What type of light do you use, your plants look very healthy! do you use Co2? 

I know thats off topic but I had to ask...


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

Yes, I think there were some at the edges, like the hairgrass. It's been a while back, over a year ago since I had any of those tanks. My present tank is a 90 gallon with fancy goldfish. But I just purchased a small vintage tank off ebay, and am thinking about how I want to set it up. Not sure yet which way I want to go. For a bit I kept some blue mystery snails in my present tank. same problem...poop like crazy! I gave up. I still have one lone olive nerite I have had for years...can't let him go.


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

jesssan2442 said:


> keepsmiling: What type of light do you use, your plants look very healthy! do you use Co2?
> 
> I know thats off topic but I had to ask...


Hi, why don't you ask me on that planted tank thread, so we don't take Elizabeth's thread off topic?;-)


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

keepsmiling said:


> Yes, I think there were some at the edges, like the hairgrass. It's been a while back, over a year ago since I had any of those tanks. My present tank is a 90 gallon with fancy goldfish. But I just purchased a small vintage tank off ebay, and am thinking about how I want to set it up. Not sure yet which way I want to go. For a bit I kept some blue mystery snails in my present tank. same problem...poop like crazy! I gave up. I still have one lone olive nerite I have had for years...can't let him go.


I may have to try the aqua soil. I may not have as much plant detritus with actual soil. Do you have to stir it like sand when cleaning the tank? I have been meaning to add some plant fertilizers to my tank, but I haven't made it to the store yet.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

Aponogeton, Red Tiger Lotus, Java Moss, and an Amazon Sword are the plants in my tank.


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

No I never stirred it. I never stirred the sand either. I just used a small piece of tubing and manually cleaned it. I did use a comb- like thing to kind of work it back into shape. It was a lot of work keeping the paths clear of stones, and in order.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

I have always read that sand can build up deadly nitrogen pockets, so I always stir mine with every cleaning. Where did you get the aqua soil? I feel that with better nutrition my plants would not be as messy.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

ElizabethB said:


> I have always read that sand can build up deadly nitrogen pockets, so I always stir mine with every cleaning.


Yes, it's a warning that people often repeat, despite there NEVER being any "gas bubbles killed my fish" threads. I suppose it's possible that that's the ONE problem that everyone manages to avoid.... But that's not likely. Its much more likely that it is not the threat that people think it is. We see threads about every stupid little thing, but NEVER about gas bubbles killing fish. There's a reason for that...



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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

Hmm..it seems as though I got it here~
http://www.adana.co.jp/en/

or it may have been here?Aqua forest aquarium...which their site seems to be different now than what it was. I would suggest talking to some people who have recently set up a tank, or perhaps the folks over at the planted tank forum. See where they are presently buying from. I am a bit out of the loop since it has been so long. It will take me awhile to 'get my feet wet' again.


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Yes, it's a warning that people often repeat, despite there NEVER being any "gas bubbles killed my fish" threads. I suppose it's possible that that's the ONE problem that everyone manages to avoid.... But that's not likely. Its much more likely that it is not the threat that people think it is. We see threads about every stupid little thing, but NEVER about gas bubbles killing fish. There's a reason for that...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I notice you have said this about a few topics. I am 54 years old and this is not my first rodeo. I am not going to yank anyone's chain. I will tell you straight up. What Elizabeth is talking about is anaerobic pockets, caused by DEEP substrate of sand. I did not have an issue with my nanos as they were just superficial and shallow.


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

Also worth mentioning. If you were into keeping saltwater tanks you will see a lot more people talking about issues with sandbeds and anaerobic pockets, death caused by it, etc...as I said it happens with deep sandbeds and rocks covering that sand so no circulation moves through it.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

keepsmiling said:


> I notice you have said this about a few topics. I am 54 years old and this is not my first rodeo. I am not going to yank anyone's chain. I will tell you straight up. What Elizabeth is talking about is anaerobic pockets, caused by DEEP substrate of sand. I did not have an issue with my nanos as they were just superficial and shallow.


Deeper than anyone keeps, which I why I say what I say. Perhaps if one had 4 inches of sand they may have an issue, but honestly the only people that would have such a deep sand bed would be those TRYING to create an anaerobic environment for the purpose of complete denitrification. 


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## keepsmiling (May 19, 2013)

True perhaps. Besides though, you may not see a lot of people coming back saying what they did killed their fish because honestly, who wants to log on just to get beat up?;-)


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Wow, I missed a lot of this thread, lol.

If the poo is what bothers you, I wouldn't add more of anything, especially snails. But it is used by the plants as ferts. Snails will clean up the algae quick - Nerite snails can't breed in freshwater either so I chose to have them instead of ramshorns. No overpopulation worries there.

I have heard of those gas pockets mostly in NPTs with soil substrate. Some people get snails or fish that burrow into the substrate to avoid that. I know that loaches burrow into the substrate and can help to avoid those pockets. It can make a huge mess in soil when it blows up, pretty much, and leaves dirt floating everywhere in the tank. Not sure how deadly that is, but I honestly don't know much about it so I'm not going to say much more, lol.

With planted tanks you only really need to siphon half the tank at a time. Leaving the poo for the plants to use. I had to suck out snail poo with a bastor daily - my Nerite leaves piles all over the place. I agree that it's not a good option if that's what you are trying to avoid.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

Wow- a lot has been said since I left the house lol. My sand is probably 2.5 inches deep at most, because I wanted to give the plants something to root in. The red water lily was suffering in my male betta tank (with gravel substrate), but is doing wonderfully in the sorority (lots of new growth). 

So, there is a danger with deep, un-circulated sand, but not with superficial sand. 

The poo I can deal with. I do a 25% water change every week, and my tank is nowhere near 100% occupied. It is the algae and shedding of the plant waste that drives me batty. My Amazon Sword tends to stay covered with algae, and while it is surviving, it isn't thriving. Perhaps I should have started this in the planted tank forum ;-). I find lots of greenish plant matter that the vacuum doesn't pick up- I'm pretty sure that it is coming from the sword. 

Thanks for all of your thoughts, links, and speculations. Perhaps a moderator could move the thread?


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

I'll post a video in a bit- maybe that will help.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

As far as loaches and what not burrowing in the sand to "prevent gas pockets", they have no effect. As was mentioned, those gas pockets can form in DEEP sand beds, and there is nothing short of trumpet snails that will dig down to the bottom. Fish that burrow in the sand do so in the top inch, which is not where the pockets can form. Furthermore, your loaches (of which only some burrow) should not be burrowing - that is a flight response to a threat, and your fish should not feel threatened very often.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I recently ordered this gravel vac and really like it. I use a turkey baster between times.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002APT0Y/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

The loaches are actually my brothers. I got them when he moved. He put the tank in my room "temporarily" and still hasn't moved it. I just do water changes (those things haven't had regular water changes for 5 years).

I know they aren't in proper conditions at all, though. He has regular gravel substrate, only had a plant and a car decoration (they hid all the time so he didn't put more decor in), and he only has 2 in his ten gallon, plus a plecostamus. I know there should be more, with sand substrate and that its too small for the plecostamus but since its not my tank, I'm not going to fish it. I have added a few more fake plants and started feeding them my NLS as opposed to the Wardley flakes he was feeding them, and they've become more active, but they still stay in the substrate most of the time.

I only have bettas myself, so I wouldn't take my advice on other fish too seriously, lol. It's just what I have read.

Edit: what I'm saying is listen to Jaysee and not me  but loaches are really cool! I love watching them but they're only active when I feed them. You definitely need more than two and sand substrate plus more decor. Btw, they are Kuhli loaches.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

http://youtu.be/UiWk8ixZu78

I know that the one female has stress stripes, but it is just a reaction to me. One morning I was standing (stupidly) with the lid up watching them eat. She got enthusiastic and jumped out. I managed to save her, but ever since she stripes up every time I get near the tank. :-(
Is the mess bad or am I being OCD?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Looks like you could use some trumpet snails ;-) Really though, that's just what happens when you don't have any bottom dwellers.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

My phone doesn't want to load the video, lol, but when I had a girl jump out at feeding time, I put her back in and she was fine. I have another girl who just stripes up sometimes. She might be a little freaked out still but she should be okay, as long as she's acting/swimming just fine.

As far as mess goes, you just need to test the water regularly and make sure there's no ammonia or nitrites ever.


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## ElizabethB (Sep 16, 2012)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> My phone doesn't want to load the video, lol, but when I had a girl jump out at feeding time, I put her back in and she was fine. I have another girl who just stripes up sometimes. She might be a little freaked out still but she should be okay, as long as she's acting/swimming just fine.
> 
> As far as mess goes, you just need to test the water regularly and make sure there's no ammonia or nitrites ever.


Glad to know I'm not the only one. I was fresh out of bed and all "durr" when it happened lol. I have the API master test kit, and the water checks out fine. I have a big tank, plenty of filtration, and it is underpopulated along with regular water changes. Maybe I should just try the root tabs and see if that helps. The tank gets indirect sunlight, but that cannot be helped with my present house. I'm sure it contributes to the algae growth.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Gorgeous girls!

I have khuli loaches and cories, and my sand looks exactly like that.


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