# orange marble black coppers HMPK (3/12/2014)



## amphirion

so the day has arrived...
female has been released into male enclosure. male is currently building bubblenest.

goal from this spawn is to create fry that look more like the mother. 
female:









male (photo from breeder):









as you can see, the male is completely dark, but im not particularly worried because he has the identical layers to the female (orange, black, copper, and white). hopefully will get uniform F1s across the board.

edit: 15 minutes after introduction, she's missing a chunk out of her caudal and dorsal fin. superficial wounds. good thing i cant put her in shows, or i would have been piiiiiiiiiissssssed.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14

Did they spawn?


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## amphirion

male's dancing away. female's taking her sweet time. the nest is half an inch thick right now. girl's getting torn fins left and right, but not showing any signs of physical stress...


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## DBanana

I learned from observation of my pair that clearly they're into BDSM but they don't have a safe word! Lol.


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## amphirion

DBanana said:


> I learned from observation of my pair that clearly they're into BDSM but they don't have a safe word! Lol.


seriously! seems like she's really into the kink. not intimidated by him one bit. creeps up to the bubblenest to check it out, fins fully erect, no submission. lol.


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## BettaBabyBoo

Ah, so excited for this (hopeful) spawn!


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## Mahsfish

Very neat looking fame. Good luck


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## amphirion

Thanks. I hope they spawn too! I've been away from them for a while so I don't know it they've spawned yet.


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## TruongLN

GORGEOUS pair! I absolutely love the female!
Hoping they spawn soon!


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## amphirion

nothing yet. the bubble nest is growing at a very impressive rate though.


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## TruongLN

I love seeing massive bubble nests :3


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## amphirion

since you asked so nicely...
at the start of the day:


getting bigger... apparently, it's not just size... it's the thickness too...


by the night's end, it's like a fully grown betta could swim in that froth...


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## TruongLN

Wow! He sure is working hard. With such a massive nest I don't see how the female could resist! It's really impressive


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## amphirion

update: the female might be enjoying the kink, but im not. placing her back into the glass jar for the day for her to eat a bit and recuperate before releasing her back to the male. if nothing happens by saturday, im gonna call the project off for a bit and retry again.


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## amphirion

shoot me in the foot. female dropped eggs while in iso. i count perhaps 75-100 unfertilized eggs. at least she isnt an egg eater...


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## DBanana

Don't interrupt the kink.


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## kevonnn

Bow chika wah wow


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## marblesmama

Such pretty fish. Excited for you.


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## amphirion

pair reintroduced 3/29.
currently spawning. 

funny side comment... when i first went to check up on them, i saw that the male's first nest had been abandoned. scanning the rest of the tank, i found the two fish together...with a new bubblenest, with eggs!


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## amphirion

female removed....
i know i know... pics or it didnt happen. 

a giant potato trying to catch a smaller potato


two shots of the nest:


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## TruongLN

So wonderful!! Love seeing eggs!


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## kevonnn

So wonderful!! Love seeing potatoes!


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## amphirion

some of the eggs are beginning to hatch now.


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## DBanana

Hurrrrrrrzah!


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## amphirion

i come bearing photos:










i cannot emphasize using live plants in breeding projects like this--not only do they help deal with keeping nitrates in check, but they often carry microfauna on them, which provide food for the fry (obviously not self sustaining) but they can be a vital transition if you happen to miss a day when the fry transition from yolk to hunting. while infusoria, the photograph clearly shows other microscopic inverts including copepods, and free swimming nematodes.









fry falling in the foreground while dad watches... slacker.


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## KodaBear

Ooh I can't wait to see the result ^-^


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## summersea

I can't wait to see what the little guys look like...and the wait must be the hardest part! Will be watching to see your progress!


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## amphirion

fry free swimming now. just fed with a few mLs of banana worm concentrate. decided to give up counting after 50. maybe +150 spawn?

removed male.


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## syssal

I love spawn logs~ Will be watching for more updates


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## amphirion

1 photo per day?


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## SorcerersApprentice

So adorable, look at 'em all!


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## amphirion

well, here's something i've never noticed before....
largest fry have conglomerated towards the center of the tank, smaller fry more on the periphery. found 3 dead bodies today-- wasnt lack of food and the water is still good (been adding in 200mL of water every day since free swimming). i suspect it has to unfortunately be due to behavioral issues. certain fry are intimidated by food and do not attack it, end up inadvertently starving themselves to death.


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## amphirion

pics. for the 5 day mark.
noticed some of the fry sporting orangish coloration already (can only be noticed overhead). majority are greyish/white.


















thanks for stopping by.


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## BettaNubRandyLove

*Sighs. I'll be watching this spawn. Love the colors. I'm dying for one of the babies.


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## amphirion

one week old. here's a shot of the largest of the bunch:









is it just me, or is this fry coming up a little orange?









more babies. yes, it's probably time to use the good ol' turkey baster


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## umarnasir335

How big was your tank for this spawn?

I guess this questions goes out to all the breeders: what's a great tank to raise the fry to 8-10 weeks for about 50-100 fish? I bought a 20 long a couple of days ago just in case.

Also, Amphirion, what are you using to siphon debris from the bottom of the tank? Does it hurt the fry if you use airline tubing attached to a 5ml suction syringe?


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## amphirion

I'm currently using a plastic filing box- appx 10 gallons. The tank is currently almost filled halfway now. The ability for fry to locate food is critical during this time as most fry mortality in my experience is due to starvation. I would argue that 10 gallon tanks would be best to start off because 1) there is more than enough space for them for the first 4-6 weeks and 2) I could put less food into the tank to achieve the same coverage to ensure fry get their vittles. If I did the spawn from scratch using a 20, I'd be looking at depositing 2-4x the amount of food into the tank to get the same coverage I got using a 10.

I'm using a turkey baster to remove litter from the tank. Smaller pipettes could be used as well. As long as the suction from your syringe is not extreme, your fry should be fine.


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## TruongLN

I've been thinking of breeding in a tub? What's your opinion from that?


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## amphirion

like a bathtub? or like a large rubbermaid? i'd say go for it. it's not pretty but it works. again, you will most likely need to create substantial food cultures to ensure that the fry have access to sufficient food at any given area in the tank. plus once when you're done with multiple projects, you can consolidate the bins by stacking them-- you cant do that with fish tanks...

this is what i've been using: http://www.officedepot.com/a/produc...ssionid=0000-5mBe5Tof2EnEkmHZa_Mrz2:17h4h7ceo


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## TruongLN

Haha my bad, totally meant a rubbermaid / plastic tub.
those are some good points.


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## kevonnn

As for the food in multiple parts... These guys and gals will be 3 weeks 3 days today. This is the result after two days of "spot" feeding. My third day of "spot" feeding only resulted in one or two fry off in the middle of no where. I think I only paid $7 for the tub and lid.

Edit:


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## TruongLN

They look quite sizable, Kevonnn!!
So you actually spawned in the tub?


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## amphirion

very nice Kevonnn!


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## kevonnn

Thanks. Ya I did EVERYTHING in the tub, except conditioning of course. I had a bunch of weighted fake plants in there during spawning and the first two days after hatching.


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## BettaBoy09

I love the Females coloring, especially since it is marble! Looking forward to see the fry develop their colors!


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## amphirion

11 days...
i tried counting... i failed.


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## TruongLN

THERE'S SO MANY! This makes my heart very happy.


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## amphirion

TruongLN said:


> THERE'S SO MANY! This makes my heart very happy.


seriously. i counted up to 100, and that was covering only 1/4th of the tank...
that's a lotta jars.... T.T


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## TruongLN

Hehe, that's the name of the game!
They'll all find awesome homes!


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## amphirion

ewww... looks like going back to bettas is gonna be a bit challenging than initially hoped for. noticed a few fish looking like they've come down with hemorrhagic septicemia. using erythromycin to compensate.


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## TruongLN

What is hemorrhagic septicemia...sounds horrific.


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## kevonnn

This?
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_diseases/vhs.html


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## amphirion

oh jeez. i didnt even see that. im hoping mine is bacterial. if it's viral im forked....


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## amphirion

threw in my uv sterilizer to boot.


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## amphirion

Super massive die off. Probably 50 of them. Seems like I caught on too late. 3/4ths of the way finishing treatment. Survivors are doing well I guess--anal and dorsal fins are coming along. Will take photos when I'm not depressed.


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## kevonnn

Water change schedule? Steady temps?


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## amphirion

antibiotic regimen requires an every other day water change so im going with that. just changed this morning. providing steady temps.


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## amphirion

also note to anyone-- if you notice your fry developing color before week 4, especially if it's red, like a koi dot on the head, start treatment right away. otherwise you're gonna have a bad time.


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## kevonnn

You are scaring me. I am at the one month mark. Some of mine are starting to get darker. Their entire bodies are getting darker, not just spots. One (the biggest) is developing red at the base of its caudal. The mother was dark red with black scale lines so I am hoping that this is normal. Mine are a little ahead of the game though.

How early do they start to color in?

EDIT: Apparently, coloring at 4-6 weeks is normal. :thumbsup:


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## amphirion

Sounds like youre in the clear. Best of luck!


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## DBanana

How is it going?


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## umarnasir335

Yeah, Amphirion, what's the status on the fry?
Hopefully most of them survived the disease outbreak


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## amphirion

unfortunately, not the case, probably lost half of the batch. some of the fry still exhibiting symptoms. going to try a second round of antibiotics. it does look like the death rate has slowed though, not finding as many dead bodies on the floor. 

going to still try to save the babies, but debating whether or not to use them to continue the line. if they dont show any signs of improvement with the second regimen, im probably going to cull them all.


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## umarnasir335

Dang. It must be hard to be in a situation such as yours. You have my deepest sympathies...breeding is a LOT harder than it looks


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## BlueLacee

Beautiful pair


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## amphirion

umarnasir335 said:


> Dang. It must be hard to be in a situation such as yours. You have my deepest sympathies...breeding is a LOT harder than it looks


thanks very much. yeah, the whole situation sucks. good thing is, there are about 50 kids left (stopped counting past that point) so things might not be as pessimistic as i mentioned earlier. did a water change and started the 2nd regiment of antibiotics today. no new dead fish... so far...


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## amphirion

checked up on the buggers, and hooray! no dead fish!
a few of the fry are exhibiting symptoms but hopefully it's regressing. will be half way through the 2nd regimen today. i might even take photos!


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## knottymare

Reading this thread had me on the edge of my seat. I hope they will be ok!


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## Jengie

Just joined the site today and came across this post. 

Best of luck to you and your surviving babies. Keeping my fingers crossed for ya.


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## amphirion

i come with pics... thanks so much for your concern guys. definitely some good vibes heading this way. here are photos of the survivors:









here's a reference for the infected fish:








note the dark red center on the head of the fry. makes them look like a cute little koi, but it's pretty much the mark of death... fatal if not treated in time. looks like these guys are going to make it though.


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## TruongLN

I'm so glad that it's treatable and the deaths have stopped. 
sending my love to the babies!


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## knottymare

Remarkable! Your diligence is paying off. What an ordeal!


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## amphirion

starting to see mendelian genetics starting to play out-- a lighter (cambodian?) and darker sibling.








1 day shy of 3 weeks, and already starting to size each other up.... T.T


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## amphirion

just noticed the labyrinth organ is starting to kick in since the kids are starting to run up to the surface for air. that's pretty early isnt it? 3 weeks?


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## TruongLN

The look fantastic


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## amphirion

A few actually look like mini-bettas. Some are starting to color up with red washes.


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## amphirion

some pics... look at them all... that's a whole lot of jars...


















some notables i guess... they're just notable because they're the largest

























as always, thanks for taking a look.


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## PieTime

They look great! Your hard work is definitely paying off


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## xStatic

So cute! They're getting big  I've been following this spawn log and it's remarkable everything you've done to keep this spawn healthy and growing!


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## amphirion

xStatic said:


> So cute! They're getting big  I've been following this spawn log and it's remarkable everything you've done to keep this spawn healthy and growing!


Thanks! We're not in the clear just yet. Going for a fourth round of antibiotics just to make sure that the problem doesn't manifest again. Then we can call it a day.


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## TruongLN

I'm really glad a lot of them pulled through!


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## amphirion

thanks Truong! im glad that as many survived as they did--i think i'd roll over if all the babies made it to this size...


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## umarnasir335

Nice! It's nice to see the BBS in their tiny tummies!
Mine are getting to the point that they recognize food is on the way when i lift the towel off of my tank


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## amphirion

bbs apparently turns them into hyper-aggressive little terrors. earlier this week it was nip-tag. now the game is currently tit-for-tat... not even 10 days shy of 5 weeks and i cant tell the difference between the males and females yet. fml.


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## DBanana

Welcome to life with fish. Lol.


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## FishWhisperer

Congrats on the success of treating your fry


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## amphirion

Rays starting to split on the caudal now


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## amphirion

taking a good look, some of the kids look really promising, nice wide dorsals--hopefully they'll be hawks when fully grown. biggest concern right now is that only 25% of the kids have pelvic fins. that's what you get for going lax on breeding i suppose...gonna give the rest till week 6 to see if something happens. 

im inclined to cull if things continue the way they are, but am willing to send the kids out for adoptions depending upon interest, since everything else about them looks nice so far. adoption fee will be implemented to cover for shipping supplies.


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## amphirion

On a humorous note, I've decided to name some of the really nice culls (perfect form, wide dorsals, no ventrals) some random four letter words expressing regret over my lax husbandry...

overall, im getting about 50-50 phenotype of cambodians? (light colored fish) and wild types. hopefully the marbling will start to kick in and the kids get interesting.


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## amphirion

one of my regrets. look at that dorsal... then look at the ventrals... that's right, there are none. naming this one, Sigh... (yes, with three periods)









center and top also missing ventrals. the center one shall be named, Regurtz. the top one will be named Gah.









Argh, explicit name, compound explicit name.









some normal ones. nothing extraordinary.



























this one i want to name, Please, because if he/she grows out the way she is now, she will be quite promising... only a handful of the siblings look like this.


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## TruongLN

Aren't a loss on ventrals from feeding too much micro worms? 
Are there any other causes of missing ventral fins?


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## amphirion

That's what I was referring to-- left microworms in the tank... It was a gamble on my part. I only planned to feed microworms for a week before moving to bbs. Apparently, a week was all it took.


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## kevonnn

Awe man that sucks. I was scared of the possibility and decided to go with VE instead of MW. I have had some live and swim for over a week in water. If you are interested in another spawn, I would be more than willing to send a starter your way.


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## amphirion

kevonnn said:


> Awe man that sucks. I was scared of the possibility and decided to go with VE instead of MW. I have had some live and swim for over a week in water. If you are interested in another spawn, I would be more than willing to send a starter your way.


thanks. will probably bug you soon. going to cross the same female with a yellow tiger plakat.


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## amphirion

they have learned to come greet me now:


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## TruongLN

They all look so wonderful!


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## MattsBettas

I haven't read the whole log... But how often did you siphon the bottom? I think thats's important, along with having snails to clean what you miss... The majority of what I fed my last two spawns was micro/banana worms and I think one fish out of both spawns is missing ventrals... And she's a special little runt.


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## knottymare

amphirion said:


> they have learned to come greet me now:


Just love this picture. I got three of my fish when they were tiny, like the pix you took of them when they were about 3 weeks old. Petco babies. Amazing that they survived - so glad to see yours doing so well!


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## umarnasir335

Wow! Even though the parents were orange/black, its crazy how many varieties of color their fry exhibit...marbles XD


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## amphirion

MattsBettas said:


> I haven't read the whole log... But how often did you siphon the bottom? I think thats's important, along with having snails to clean what you miss... The majority of what I fed my last two spawns was micro/banana worms and I think one fish out of both spawns is missing ventrals... And she's a special little runt.


i didnt really siphon the bottom. i figured the density of microworms spread over a large surface area would have mitigated that (again, wrong). i did have snails in the tank, but not enough to clean up which could have also contributed to the problem. with regards to missing ventrals, im beginning to think that the ventrals arent missing at all but are rather ingrown.




umarnasir335 said:


> Wow! Even though the parents were orange/black, its crazy how many varieties of color their fry exhibit...marbles XD


well, about that... turns out the father was actually red... not orange. the red didnt seem to happen until a couple of weeks after i received him. which explains why all of the fry are exhibiting red. what i didnt expect was that there would be darker and lighter individuals (looks like an even split). some of the darker ones are showing metallic copper iridescence, but it is not excessive or patched. but you're right about the marbles... i hope the gene kicks in soon, while im happy the fish are growing well, they pretty much look like wildtypes right now--pretty boring.


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## BlueLacee

wow, loving the newest picture


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## amphirion

more progress pics... filled with pain....
sadness.









this is thanks-dad-i-could-have-grown-up-to-be-a-contender









pain and sorrow.









argh!









crushed dreams









sigh...










at least this one looks promising...









this one too









imbalanced ventrals dammit!









at least they look cute when they come to greet me...


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## MattsBettas

Love that last pic. Will you be going into F2?


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## amphirion

matt, depends on whether there are any promising males in the lot. love the wide sails, would like to cross that back to mama. however, it looks like pickings are slim. might not go F2 with this batch. going to try to find homes for them and start again. this time with the tiger hmpk.


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## umarnasir335

Amphirion, how will you get rid of most of your fry, especially the one's without ventrals?


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## amphirion

A lot of them are really nice aside from the missing ventrals so I'm reluctant to cull (literal sense) only a few with swim bladder issues and only 1 crooked spine. Would rather find homes for them but will ice bath them if necessary.


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## amphirion

kids starting to grow beards.... getting all growed up...


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## SorcerersApprentice

Love the names!


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## TheBlur

I think they're cute, and they look really healthy even though they don't have ventrals 

I'd totally take one! (But I have no tank space right now x u x)


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## amphirion

kids are starting to diversify. here are some notable mentions---

starting with the most depressing...
naming this one FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.... but you can call him Nemo i guess...
after looking at him, i bet you will understand why.
















SERIOUSLY. KILLING ME SMALLS!









a normal one i guess... nothing really to write home about.









he was a butterfly two days ago, but decided to go for red-loss instead...









an old friend, Argh!

















center fish is named, Obi-Wan... pretty much my only hope.








hiding his face...









a shot of the tank... largest fish is actually momma. sticking her in here to heal her wounds before putting her back into the sorority. its kind of amazing-- she does not display any aggression towards them, even backing away from them during feeding time as she doesnt want to harm them?









thanks for taking a look.


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## amphirion

week 8 highlights, just a sample of the overall group:

male 1

















male 2









male 3

















male 4

















male 5

































male 6









planning to give away or sell all of these posted... maybe when week 10-12 rolls around...


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## umarnasir335

How come most of these guys have such long dorsals and anals - they dont look like HMPKs at all...


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## Marble Lover

Wow, if you have any females similar to that first male I'd love to get one  Sadly I don't have room for another male right now or I'd take the first boy off your hands.


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## BlueLacee

They are stunning


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## amphirion

umarnasir335 said:


> How come most of these guys have such long dorsals and anals - they dont look like HMPKs at all...


My mistake with the female--she was actually a HM


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## TealHoundogg

Looks like you have a few butterfly bettas. The first one has some interesting markings. He might be worth keeping just looking at his colors.

But that's just me. Seems like a lot of them ended up with halfmoon tails like their Mother.


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## amphirion

The marbling trait is tied somehow with the butterfly pattern, so it is expected. 

As for females with the marbling trait, I think I might have a few but they are defective (missing ventrals)


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## TealHoundogg

I have heard that butterfly is a version of marble. I have a dragon betta who has butterfly markings so he probably has those genes.

Sorry so many of your females ended up with missing fins. What do you suppose was the cause of that?


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## amphirion

Males too. Overfeeding microworms without substrate on the bottom of the tank is reputed to be the main cause of missing ventral fins.


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## TealHoundogg

Yikes...that's scary.

Hope you can find some people who will take them. One of my betta's sisters was blind but she didn't seem to miss anything.


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## MattsBettas

Hey amphirion, what's the pH of your water? I'm just wondering, as I have quite basic water and have never experienced issues with missing ventrals despite the fact that my last batch of betta fry (B. ocellata) was raised exclusively on micro and banana worms (along with infusoria, obviously), until they could get on to dry food (which is easier then with domestics). Just looking to see if pH is -somehow- related to the problem (influencing he growth of bacteria, etc).


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## amphirion

MattsBettas said:


> Hey amphirion, what's the pH of your water? I'm just wondering, as I have quite basic water and have never experienced issues with missing ventrals despite the fact that my last batch of betta fry (B. ocellata) was raised exclusively on micro and banana worms (along with infusoria, obviously), until they could get on to dry food (which is easier then with domestics). Just looking to see if pH is -somehow- related to the problem (influencing he growth of bacteria, etc).


6.5. What are you thinking?


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## valen1014

amphirion said:


> 6.5. What are you thinking?


Not sure if we could draw any conclusion from this since it's not at all a controlled situation but I'd just like to add anyways that my spawn with mostly missing ventrals was also at a pH of about 6.2-6.5 :dunno:

Approximately what's your male:female ratio for this spawn?


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## amphirion

Interesting as I've always preferred soft water for breeding bettas. First time using microworms though. 

Only id'd a handful of females so far (bonefide ovipositors)-- could be more, they just haven't matured yet. My best bet is 50-50. What camp are you in Valen? Do you believe age of the breeders determines sex or pH?


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## MattsBettas

I was thinking that harder water decreased the risk of missing ventrals. 

See, mine's at 8.2, which is definitely not great for bettas in general but this is definitely a theory that could be pondered upon a bit more...


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## MattsBettas

Dang, just missed the edit (no way I'm risking getting cut off with one minute). Anyways, do you mind if I share this info and a picture (with credit, of course) on a new thread dedicated to missing ventrals? Are you a "him" or a "her" (I would feel so bad if I was wrong lol)?


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## amphirion

Sure. No worries. Imma dude.


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## amphirion

so, i think this one's a girl... if she is, her name is dawdfuthermuckinggammit (mods feel free to edit at your disclosure)....would have totally kept her if it werent for the missing ventrals. an inversed piebald. steel blue eyes to boot... щ(ಥДಥщ)

might be worth respawning this pair just to get the patterns back again.


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## TealHoundogg

Wow, she's beautiful... Here's another name... Pinto.


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## amphirion

thanks for the suggestion. but im keeping her name... whoever ends up with her is free to change it.


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## TealHoundogg

I understand. Giving fry names, makes it easier to keep track of who's who.


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## DBanana

I will keep her! She can live in my sorority. @[email protected]


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## TealHoundogg

I don't blame you. She's a unique betta.

I've seen a panda betta (black and white) once. They're really unique. I sort of wonder if a person would end up with a koi if you mixed a panda with a cambodian.


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## amphirion

DBanana said:


> I will keep her! She can live in my sorority. @[email protected]


but... youre.... canadian. T.T

and unfortunately, she's losing her black rather rapidly...


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## umarnasir335

Amphirion, I haven't seen any ventral-less bettas in person. Does the lack of fins affect how they swim and their posture/form?


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## amphirion

umarnasir335 said:


> Amphirion, I haven't seen any ventral-less bettas in person. Does the lack of fins affect how they swim and their posture/form?


no, not really. from what i can tell, they are pretty healthy and can steer just fine. posture and form are pretty good as well--it kills me in fact, especially when a few of them are already halfmoons with wonderful dorsal spreads and level anals. T.T


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## TealHoundogg

That bites... but you can always try again. Sorry that your two tone betta is losing her color. 

Oh, I replied to your last post in my spawn log.

It'd be nice if the next time around you get another betta with her markings.

I had a blue eyed halfmoon too. My delta is parti-eyed, half gold, half blue. Read somewhere that bettas with blue eyes are rare but I could be wrong since Koi bettas usually have blue ones.


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## amphirion

TealHoundogg said:


> I had a blue eyed halfmoon too. My delta is parti-eyed, half gold, half blue. Read somewhere that bettas with blue eyes are rare but I could be wrong since Koi bettas usually have blue ones.


unfortunately, i dont believe eye color functions the same way in bettas as it does in fish. it does seem influenced by the skin colors of the betta though. mainly the blue layer.


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## TealHoundogg

He has dragon and butterfly markings so the butterfly which is a variety of marble might have something to do with him being parti-eyed. That or it could be hereditary.


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## amphirion

heterochroma in bettas is linked to the marble gene.


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## TealHoundogg

Makes sense since that's found in dogs that have dapple, harlequin or merle genes.

Cats, horses and humans have it too but that usually has to do with hair or skin tone. If I'm not mistaken.

I suppose the marble gene in bettas is similar merle but unlike merle breeding a marble with another marble doesn't seem to cause health problems since mixing merle with merle results in blindness or deaf offspring which is why breeders don't recommend it.


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## danielleduq

if you need a home for one of your males, I'm looking to house another!!


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## danielleduq

I'm especially interested in any marble males you may have, ventrals or not


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## amphirion

danielleduq said:


> I'm especially interested in any marble males you may have, ventrals or not


thanks for your interest! should be ready in a couple of weeks. they are still juvies ~8 weeks.


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## danielleduq

im loving males 1 and 4, and yes no worries, ventrals or not they're beautiful babies!


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## amphirion

1 and 4 actually are fully developed bettas, no missing fins there--so will be normally priced. 4 has lost marbling influence and has a black face now. 

male 1 got super dark:









male 3 update:

















unpreviously revealed male:









another one:









male 5:

















dawdfuthermuckinggammit saw Frozen and decided to be Elsa instead.









another new male


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## TealHoundogg

Wow, Males 1 and 5 are really unique.

Can't say I've seen a betta like Elsa either other than a koi.


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## Marble Lover

I've been looking for black marbles for so long that I think I'm going to need to make room for a breeding pair. They're turning out fantastic 

I am curious- from the photos most of the bettas seem to express the HM trait in their fins so are there others that are more HMPK type? Or did this spawn turn into only HM?


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## amphirion

I've got black marbles! 
If I have HMPKs they're doing a really good job hiding, and all apparently are still juvies which makes it hard to distinguish them from the females (females starting to show ovipositors). Long finned trait is dominant so long finned HMs expected, I was hoping for short finned HMs but it doesn't look like there's anything there.


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## TealHoundogg

Wow, interesting.


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## April R

wow, these will be some handsome fry! Can't wait to see the babies.


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## amphirion

April R said:


> wow, these will be some handsome fry! Can't wait to see the babies.


thanks. kids are definitely out of the fry stage--- more appropriate to call them juveniles. they can be considered sub-adults in a couple more weeks.


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## April R

I missed the updated pics, LOL.


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## danielleduq

amphirion said:


> 1 and 4 actually are fully developed bettas, no missing fins there--so will be normally priced. 4 has lost marbling influence and has a black face now.
> 
> male 1 got super dark:
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> male 3 update:
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> unpreviously revealed male:
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> another one:
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> male 5:
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> dawdfuthermuckinggammit saw Frozen and decided to be Elsa instead.
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> another new male






Price isn't an issue, just looking for a cute little marble boy (or any of your boys, they've all got some pretty stunning and interesting colors) the missing ventral a are a give or take, it doesn't matter either way to me I'm excited


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## danielleduq

That last boy on your updated photos is adorable by the way


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## April R

The missing vents looks so weird, like a person with no arms. But still cute.


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## danielleduq

Agreed!


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## taylorrae

Absolutely adorable fish, even with the missing fins! I'm super interested.


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## BettaLittleGirl

i would want one of ur betta if ur giving away, but i live in singapore


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