# Moooooney!



## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Alright. I hate this website. Hate it! First im addicted to bettas, then im convinced to get a 10gal tank. Nowafter reading the NPL how to setup, i really want one!!! Look what you do to me 

Anyways. Whats the cost of possibly converting my ten gallon to a NPL? 
Im pretty sure that i can get a good plant bundle on aquabid + some Trumpet snails. I really want them, OBL said that they airate the soil good. 

So mainly i think the factors are the soil and whatever will top it, I think ill use the gravel i have now, mainly because its really nice and natural gravel, not the painted rock i use to have. 
I was really hoping i could use my miracle grow soil i have, but thats not natural at all  

So if i do everything right i dont have to use a filter at all? And does that also mean that the water changes are very very less? Itd be a lot easier to have a tank like this. i think the benefits out way, well any of the risks.

Edit* This would also help me for summer vacation. Ill be gone for two months, and this would allow my tank to just last the one month, then we take a break and come back for a few days, then after that we go back up. I could check on the tank and do maitainance when we come back down. (the fish will be with me in smaller tanks)

Would it work? Could the tank last a month with no human contact or overview? or would algae overgrow it? 
I could also put a timmer on the light so it would turn on for 10 hours then back off.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Also what would be a good soil to use? That fluval stuff seems to expensive.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Forgot to thank you guys in advance


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## Sea Dragon (Mar 20, 2012)

Haha I was recently addicted to the plant craze  Im having problems with micro organisms and potential parasites but otherwise its pretty awesome.

Approx cost IME:
Miracle Gro Organic Potting Mix: $5
Petco sand 5 lbs: $5 (It was enough to do a .5-.75 inch cap for my 2 2.5 tanks with a quarter left over)
Plants: ~$35 (estimate lol)
6500k Lightbulbs, 23 watts: Varies but I found them for $3 each online

I've had the tanks set up for a couple weeks and I'm having a diatom bloom but I believe those will go away on their own eventually. As for leaving the tank unattended, I'm not sure, I'd wait for a more experienced member to comment on that :S


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Cost can vary from location to location, what you already have and what you want to do. Often you can make most of the things you already have on hand-work.....
If you are sure that the local soil is free of harmful chemical-dig some up-sift it and use or buy top soil or potting soil that doesn't have any added ferts, chemicals, water absorbing beads...etc....The cap on the soil can be sand or small diameter gravel that you already have-The goal of the cap is to help hold the soil down until it becomes water logged, help hold plants in place until they anchor, prevent too much nutrient release into the water column too fast-so you don't need or want that much.

Usually the plants and light are the biggest expense-Both being really important for a successful natural planted tank. You need to have enough of the right species of plant in the beginning and proper color temp lights to promote growth and photosynthesis-otherwise the system can crash.

Once the tank is mature and this can take about 3 months more or less-Then water changes can be limited-this also depends on stocking. Once mature, plants thriving and lightly-to-moderate stocked-with or without a filter-Water changes can usually be done 3-6 times a year-again this depends on several different factors. Some can go longer without them and be fine-while other will need more frequent.

Using a timer will work for your lights, however, the tank might need to be topped off with water and especially if you have a filter-too low a water line might be a problem. I know with my open top NPT-I need to top off every week due to evaporation.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Alright thanks  

im thunking about the miracle grow organic soil since it seems safe because other people have had success. Now did you mean that i need little cap or little soil? And why little cap? How does little cap prevent nutrient release, better then more cap.

As for stocking. all i currently have is a betta and a mystery snail. 
But if i get plants on aquabid the seller said he could include some apple or trumpet snails. id get some trumpet snails fir the airation like Ladysaid. Althouh if u look at orange rabbit snails they are really cool!!

Id also stock a few more. probably a shrimp or two. 

im a light stocker lol. 

so i think i got everything but the lights. im hoping that my choice in my small gravel will help in keeping the diatodes from blooming. i just want to do eveything. fill with plants and water and stock it. in one day hopefully.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

Make sure you sift the soil before you use it to get all the big chunky things out!! (like pieces of wood). You want the rich, soft stuff!


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

Yay planted tanks! So pretty, every single one. 

Just as an FYI, I set two tanks up three weeks ago as NPTs (Miracle Gro with black sand cap). I have never had any ammonia in either thus far. 

However, I am still working on getting the tanks balanced. Had a diatom takeover, that disappeared, and now am fighting off algae of various sorts. Some of that us just part of the natural cycle of a new tank, some is due to trying to dial in photoperiod, plant density, fertilizers, etc. Just so you are prepared to address some issues in the first few months.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

A good deal for my planted tank? http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1363571980

I want something really nice and rounded, 

10 stems of limnophilia aromatica - dont care for it.
10 stems of diandra didiplis dont care for it.
10 stems of mayaca fluviatilis - i sorta like it.
10 dwarf sag plants i like it, seems like amazon sword to me.
5 stems of bacopa carolinia I LOVE THE LOOK OF THIS.
5 stems of rotala indica its okay. 
3-5 stems of ludwigia inclinata sp. 'cuba' meh
a few stems of sunset hygrophilia imeh. maybe for the color? 
a few MTS (Malaysian trumpet snails.)

So this is the best deal for my ten gallon i could find. 

Does anyone else actually know a better site where i can pick and choose my plants and for a somewhat inexpensive price?


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Vallisneria-americana-jungle-val-208853 - The prices seem very fair. even if the amount is small im okay, because 1. if it dies then i dont feel bad. 2. itll just grow more and more after time - i can wait.

Opinions


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

We got plants from here and were extremely happy with almost all of them. They were healthy and rooted extremely fast, i had much less stress from these than I am having from the ones I bought at the aquarium store this weekend. 
http://www.tricker.com/cat-oxygenating

My favorites were - http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-watersprite - beautiful and very, very easy to grow so far. One sprout broke off when my pleco ran into it, i stuck it into the soil and it's a whole second plant - so every piece that has broken off has sprouted into a new sprig - again it's so pretty.

http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-anacharis - these grow tall and are thick and healthy. I've put one in every betta tank because it bends over slighty and ALL my bettas nap on it and sit on it as much as if not more than the betta leaf now. It's HILARIOUS!

http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-ludwigia - the color on these are great and it's growing really well. At the water line in most all my tanks.

http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-redhygrophilia - slower growing but healthy and absolutely beautiful


http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-cabomba - thick and bushy - the fish like to hide in it. Would be great for fry to hide in, plus it is tall and thick so looks great in the background.


http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-moneywort - is pretty and very slow growing so far, used it to hide the front of my tiny pots for my betta girls to hide in if they wanted to. Has stayed low enough to use as a semi front of the tank plant.




http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-jungle - I wouldn't recommend this, so far very disappointed in how it gows and looks in all but one of my tanks. It's just blah, leaves turn brown to easy and fast so far. maybe after it grows more it will be better, so it's still in my tanks so far but it's very close to coming out if it doesn't improve soon.

http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-bacopa - i loved this one from the picture but it's not doing well in any tank I have. It's just kind of blah so far, I wouldn't order any more of it.


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## Nothingness (Oct 11, 2012)

thats alot of plant for a 10g


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Nothingness said:


> thats alot of plant for a 10g


It takes a lot of plants in the beginning when setting up a soil based planted tanks. When you start with enough of the right species of plants-along with the proper color temp light to support plant growth-you will have less problems with the system.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh thank you so much peachii!!!! this is exactly what i want. prices are low and they dont kill you on shipping! thanks so much! now i cant pick and choose my favorites :3


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## Nothingness (Oct 11, 2012)

peachii said:


> http://www.tricker.com/prod-p-jungle - I wouldn't recommend this, so far very disappointed in how it gows and looks in all but one of my tanks. It's just blah, leaves turn brown to easy and fast so far. maybe after it grows more it will be better, so it's still in my tanks so far but it's very close to coming out if it doesn't improve soon.



Do you use Excel in your tank? This has been know to cause the Jungle Val to melt and deteriorate. I have a bunch of Jungle Val and its growing tall and quickly.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Edit* 
Although they do offer some easy plants, i dont know which ones to get, or if Lady would aprove of any of them-seeing as she is the planting expert! 
They also dont offer any Plants that could carpet thebottom of my tank like i want it to be.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

What do they mean by "bunch?" Would those be enough for two tanks?


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Iactually have no idea


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Im assuming one plant


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Im having a hard time decide between the natural gravel I have now, or sand :/ anyone have any opinions on the substrate they use?


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

Bettafish said:


> Im having a hard time decide between the natural gravel I have now, or sand :/ anyone have any opinions on the substrate they use?


I use play sand and organic dirt. I love the sand and it is so amusing to watch the shrimp dig around in it. You just have to be extra careful when adding water so you don't get kickups.


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

I really like sand. To me, the finer substarte loos so much more put together than gravel. i think you can't go wrong with either, it's just a personal choice. Look at a bunch of pictures of gravel based and sand based tanks. I bet you like one lots more.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147295&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS%2FNo

I good soil? or just stick with miracle organic?


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

Bettafish said:


> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147295&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
> 
> I good soil? or just stick with miracle organic?


Miracle Organic works fine. Just make sure you sift it. You want to get all the big chunks out so all you are left with is the rich, soft dirt.


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Okay cool 

im also trying to come up with a hardscape item. Im surrounded by desert in Arizona, currently at my cabin so im surrounded by pine tree forest right now. 

I would really like a branch or something in there. just to add some definition to the tank. 

I heard a cholla branch would work to but i don't know how that would go with the theme im going for, which i actually have no idea what the theme is. i guess its my theme  idk haha. 

Any ideas on things from a desert/forest that could look good in a tank. im cool with rocks too, i just don't know what kind.

Ideas for themes would be cool to. maybe a unique desert theme  i just don't know how to execute it, because mostly theres no underwater cacti . any ideas welcome. or maybe expanding on the desert theme, im really liking the idea of the desert theme


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

By bunch they mean 5-8 steams, water sprite is by plant and its on sale extremely good plant, baby tears will do a carpeting effect just wont look like grass we just got some and they give you a really generous amount of that, peachi and I have been very happy with the stuff from there, the bacopa is our least favorite along with the vals


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Bettafish said:


> Okay cool
> 
> im also trying to come up with a hardscape item. Im surrounded by desert in Arizona, currently at my cabin so im surrounded by pine tree forest right now.
> 
> ...


here is our big tank Atlantis is the theme the big ornament of the colums costs a bit but if you look around walmart you can find thing people use for home decore cheap the little red vases were 97 cents the little terracottta pots 24 cents and so on try going to goodwill never know what you will find, here is a pic of the big tank


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## Bettafish (Apr 20, 2009)

Coming up with a good theme is hard. Anyone have ideas? 

I was thinking of like a desert theme but I don't know how to pull it off.


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