# wha color ladies sould i use?



## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

so I bought some males yesterday... didn't mean to but I did and I want to breed them but Im not to sure what color females to use because ive never breed theses color males if you could let me know that would be great

this is my beautiful black Delta (Named Coal) I found at petsmart of all places! He has some awesome blue streaking threw his tail fin.









this is my white delta betta (Named Doc Holiday) 









My Chocolate or Mustard Gas idk(Named Blaze) his fins are more blonde but the lighting sucks sorry for that


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It depends on what color you want the fry to be... Keep in mind none of them are breeding quality.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't plan on breeding the black one simply because he is a petsmart fish but the other two came from breeders an I bought them because of the simplicity


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

MattsBettas said:


> It depends on what color you want the fry to be... Keep in mind none of them are breeding quality.


Idk what colors would look good? I don't want the colors to come out muddy you know... Also how are they not breeding quality? not to sound rude or anything but I want to start from scratch not where someone left off and the males are just what I was looking for color an shape fin wise... 

its just when I got them home it was Oh no! all I have is Cambodian females I don't what to breed these with males of this color, and I do have red dragon crown tail cross who looks amazing but she's too young only 2.5months


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

None have good fins and color. If you would like an in depth critique just ask.

Learn the genes before you mix tail types or colors. If you want fry that look like the parents, use similar colored parents. 

Don't assume that just because a fish is from a breeder it's high quality.

Honestly, I understand that you want to start from scratch and not continue someone else's work, I feel the same way, but (to be blunt) do yourself a favor and start with high quality stock.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

yes please give me an in depth critique on each one.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

We need flaring pictures for that.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

ok i can do that... well the white one is scared of every thing so don't know how that will work out


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Yeah we need flaring pics for a full critique but from what I can see is

White has uneven topline, poor spread, weak dorsal and looks like some iridescence covering his eye

Black has round tail, poor spread, weak dorsal

VT has uneven topline

I understand that good stock is very hard to come by at times and if I were you Id use the white since with the right girl, good selection and a few generations you could have some HMs


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

So while taking pictures it hit me! I've been breeding betas for 5 plus years now I have won numerous blue ribbons at betta shows from bettas whose parents and grandparents were rescues from wamart.... just because they don't meet YOUR "standards" doesn't mean their not breeding quality. you don't know what I'M looking for in a fish, I know my genetics to get perfect colors and fins,(I don't understand black and white bettas I'll admit that; never worked with them) so I'm done with this thread AND stop telling me my fish suck! 

I did buy a female to go with my VT today should give me pink and purple bettas totally excited!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

TorisExtraordinaryBettas said:


> yes please give me an in depth critique on each one.


I'm sorry you feel upset, but you can't yell at someone for doing what you asked them to do.. you wanted an honest opinion and you had gotten some. Yes, you can get some good fish generations after ones you get from the store.. no one is denying that. But after 5 years and working the show circuit, you should know more about the colors, about mixing the fins, and the many faults those particular ones have, etc etc.. 

What shows have you been in? Just curious as to whether or not I know you as I follow the IBC and groups in shows


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

You asked for a critique of your fish...dont get upset because you got one.
If you want to breed towards a goal youve got to know what bits and pieces to fix in your line along the way. Otherwise how are they going to improve
No harm in breeding petstore fish, theres often some very nice fish in petstores


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They did not say that your fish suck. I'm sure they're very pretty. I cantsee the pics on my Kindle. The members that *critiqued* your fish are IBC breeders. Sometimes petstore fish can be bred but only if the breeder knows what to look for.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

I mainly work with creating butterfly's i've gotten some amazing 3banded ones and even one 4 but he didn't make it past 6months :/ and all his eggs never hatched. And I'm just a having the hardest time grasping how the black and white works. I don't really understand how to even get the colors or lack of color. mainly the white. I don't know what colors to breed, I don't really know what color I'm looking for but I want vibrant color not muddy color.Guess im just going to buy one of every color and test it out lol jk.

And the comment you quoted was me being sarcastic about the whole situation... then I thought better of it but I've been upset over this since the first comment cause I asked for color opinions not Oh your fish aren't breeding quality.This is not what I asked lol. I was like wow im so excited about this and your a total buzz kill you know.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

Myates said:


> What shows have you been in? Just curious as to whether or not I know you as I follow the IBC and groups in shows


As for the shows I don't know i was told i wasn't able to register i was 12 when I started so my moms friend Mike who was in the IBC would take me and my bettas to shows. And for the last two years i haven't shown at all because i rescued a race horse then i rescued a BLM mustang this year and all my time goes to there rehabilitation and training so i have no real time to be breeding fish. but ive gotten sick and cant be riding and training my horses for 2-3months(so far) so i thought i'd get back into it and show off what i can do.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

...But then you were going to take flaring pictures for us to properly critique.
Critiques arent a personal attack towards you, they are bits of advice helping you decide what ones to work with.

Just like breeding horses, the conformation must be looked at and a suitable partner who can compliment the weakness must be used instead of using another poorly conformed horse just because it has a purdy colour. 

But anyway if you want to replicate the colours you already have, find females who are the same colour... 
My main advice is keep red away from the white and try to even out the colour in his fins


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

for the white one when i was sent pictures of him he was about 2.5 months old all his fins where clear and i loved that main reason i bought him but he's been sitting around in the breeders house for a couple months and has gotten more color as he's gotten older. so im hoping he turns all the same color like my Royal blue did(fish in profile pic); bought him thinking i bought a butterfly/marble now he is all blue but i still love him  this is him when i bought him









And i don't necessarily want to replicate the color i just want to see what happens, and i know to stay away from red... i don't like red bettas anyways but had to get one to help make purple. Right now i have a group of females im looking at they all are crown tails(i personally love crown tail crosses) i like the mint green and royal blue would they work out?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

TEB: Maaybe this will help
Color Genetics Guide

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/betta-fish-articles/betta-fin-types-color-192889/

Black is a color layer. You can't "produce them". Their parents must be black. There are a few blacks; melamo (infertile female), black lace, black orchid, black copper, black dragon (not really black) and super black.
Black melano is said to be the "true" black because it has more black pigments compared to other blacks. Lace and orchid can be produced from black x irid crosses. While Super black is said to be from a copper line (melano x copper)

White is a "created" color. It is very hard to maintain (clear, clean white) so it is best to breed white to white. It was created from cambodian x irid. You will need the Non Red (NR) and blond genes from the cambodian and the steel blue from the irid. I'm not sure in what generation whites come out, but they don't immediately arise from any caambodian x irid crosses.

DO NOT mix black nor white to any red because that will ruin the main colors and turn it into multi combinations. Because of it's background, you will probably produce cambodian patterns anyway.

If you want to breed for shows, listen to everyone above, they know what they are talking about and will help you achieve goals in as few generations as possible.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't want to show thats the thing; I just wanted something fun to do while I'm sick, and cant do literally anything or my spleen might rupture. An my moms fish breeder gave me an amazing deal on his fish when we were there picking coral and a breeding pair of clown fish he said hey I'm over stoked and I could have any fresh water fish I wanted for 80%off so I picked those two bettas... it never crossed my mind to breed them until he asked me if I wanted to buy a couple females and start breeding program... As the days went buy it sounded like a really good idea. all i was really looking for is "if you use this color you'll get this and it will be amazing." 

any ways thank you for the sites and description on the colors I appreciate it I really really do. that's one of the main questions I've been asking.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Oh. Well then. OK, steel blue+turquoise=royal blue. Easy peasy beautiful colored fish that are easy to give away because they are sooo pretty.
Most of your matched pairs will produce something similar to the parents...say lavendar butterfly salamanders or blue/white marbles.
You just really want to stay away from crossing the color layers. That's where stuff gets messy. 
Try and stay away from red washes. If you are breeding a blue fish pick one that doesn't have red on it.

If you are only wanting a "down time" hobby definetly don't plan on working past F1(or better known as your first batch babies from parent fish)
2-3 months is enough time to raise one spawn so make it count.

Now, are you wanting to breed your blue marble male? That's fine. Find a blue female. You should end up with solid blues, marble blues and butterfly blues. Since he doesn't have a mask I'd pick a female that also doesn't have a mask. If you cross them only for one generation you will get varying degrees of masking. It's messy looking IMHO.


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

im going to breed the white and mustard on page one, ive worked with blues and my blue is almost 2years old so I wouldn't breed him. but he has awesome fins other than one of his vertical fins a crooked and amazing color(in person my camera sucks) and I should have bred him. I was just using him as an example of how he changed color as he grew up


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

Ilikebutterflies said:


> Now, are you wanting to breed your blue marble male? That's fine. Find a blue female. You should end up with solid blues, marble blues and butterfly blues. Since he doesn't have a mask I'd pick a female that also doesn't have a mask. If you cross them only for one generation you will get varying degrees of masking. It's messy looking IMHO.


im not planning on breeding him he's 2 years old. and he didn't stay a marble the picture I used for my profile Is what he looks like now. he was just used as an example.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

OK. Good luck.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Nothing wrong with breeding a 2yr old.. that age won't change any outcome


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## TorisExtraordinaryBettas (Nov 12, 2011)

Myates said:


> Nothing wrong with breeding a 2yr old.. that age won't change any outcome


IT WONT!! i'm excited now. he's normally next to my female tank and I moved his tank closer to my bed so I can see him more and my new butterfly CT female was there and he made the biggest bubble nest I have ever seen it was about 1/4in thick and coved half the tank and he did this within 2 hours, and hes never made a nest before or even take any interest in the females so I think he likes her;-)

other than that curved vertical fin, does his fins look ok... I cant get any flaring pics, he wont flare, he's actually pretty calm for a betta him and my old betta Ted actually shared a 10 gallon tank for two years until Ted passed away at age 6


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Nope. People use younger ones for the most part because they tend to be more willing to breed.. but with the male, his age shouldn't affect anything - I've bred both older and younger bettas.. my eldest ones end up with many more eggs.

Just make sure to separate him from view of other bettas during conditioning so he isn't "desensitized" to seeing a female all the time.


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