# Self-harming Betta )':



## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm completely new to owning fish, but did my fair share of reading for a month before purchasing my pet. I bought Fish (yes, creative) about a month and a half ago. He's a beautiful Mustard Gas Super Delta, although Petsmart sold him as a Halfmoon. I have a heated but unfiltered 2.5G, with a live Java Fern, one column-like decoration and some non-pH altering river rocks. I do my WC at 50% every half week and 90% every week. This is what happened in the last two weeks in a nutshell:

*1st month:* Fine and Dandy! Really pleased I kept him so well.
*2nd month** 1st week** Day 1:* Bought a small 3-day Vacation Block to test it out. 
*Day **3:* He didn't touch the food and it clouded the water really bad. Took out the block and did a 50% change. Noticed a little rippling effect on his tail fin but thought nothing of it since it often looks that way when he isn't flaring.
*Day 4:* Tail ripped completely in half, clean, not frayed. Immediately did 90% change with salt and observed him. Suspected split due to water issues.
*Day **6:* Tail healing slowly, not completely in half anymore but fraying a little at the edges. 
*Week 2 Day **1: *Tail fraying more. Confused. Suspect catching on something in the tank. Checked over his tank to make sure he wasn't snagging on anything, took out the decoration he's had since I got him since I felt a suspicious pointy part on where he normally "sits" on it.
*Week 2** Day 2:* Today. Got home and... BAM. Half the top of his magnificent tail completely gone. Dorsal fin also shredded. Fraying EVERYWHERE. No bits of fin on the floor. Tail showing signs of bloody ends. *Final Diagno**sis: Tail biter! *

I've read that Betta bite their tails from (1) stress from water parameters or (2) boredom. I did a 90% change and added salt and Stress Coat. Moved stuff around his tank, rearranged, put up pictures outside the tank for him to look at (he did). Planning on getting a ping pong this weekend for him to play with. Keeping an extremely close eye on Fish, he's eating normally and swimming and breathing normally otherwise. 

*Please feel **free to share your thoughts.* I don't know what's gotten into him considering he was perfectly fine his first month with me. I'm planning on doing 90% changes every day for a week, adding salt and stress coat, then just stress coat in week two onwards until it heals. I'm only worried this many WC will stress Fish out and kill him faster than his shredded tail.

I understand not everyone shares the idea that a 2.5G is sufficient space. I am unable to obtain anything larger and I apologize. I unfortunately do not own any test kits, as buying those will drive me broke, but I do drip-acclimation for Fish to be safe everytime I do a WC. And now the usual:

Housing 
*What size is your tank?* 2.5G
*What temperature is your tank?* I have a Marina Betta mini-heater for 1 - 1.5G tanks, but nothing to measure it with, but I'm guessing the 76 - 80s range.
*Does your tank have a filter?* No.
*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *No.
*Is your tank heated? *Yes, see above.
*What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *None.

Food
*What type of food do you feed your betta fish?* Omega One Betta Buffet Flakes (43% Crude Protein) and Nutrafin basix Betta Pellets (50% Crude Protein). I mix up the percentage of what I feed him everyday so he doesn't get bored. 
*How often do you feed your betta fish? *Once a day, a tiny sprinkle of flakes in the morning. (3 - 5 medium-sized crushed flakes) _Occasionally_ when training him to go into a jar for a WC or for training him, 1 - 2 additional pellets in the night.

Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change? *Twice a week.
*What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?* 50% mid week and 90% end of the week. I can't cycle my tank but I try to leave a minimum amount of bacteria behind so it doesn't bubble up too much.
*What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?* Nutrafin Aqua Plus and only recently, API Stress Coat. Sometimes API aquarium salt, 1/2 tsp per gallon as per box directions.

Water Parameters:
*Have you tested your water?* If so, what are the following parameters? Nope, sorry.

Symptoms and Treatment
*How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *Tail and dorsal fin completely ripped and frayed as opposed to beautiful flowy wide tail just over a week ago. Signs of bloody ends.
*How has your betta fish's behavior changed?* Not much, but he's always seemed really hyper since day one. He'll do tons of head-shake dances when someone comes to his tank and swim around really rapidly until he doesn't see us.
*When did you start noticing the symptoms?* See TL;DR above. About two weeks ago, and it got progressively worse.
*Have you started treating your fish? *If so, how? Stress Coat + API salt. Lowered water height a little. Thinking of doing daily water changes for a week or two.
*Does your fish have any history of being ill?* Pelvic fins were slightly rotted when I got him but healed and grew out in month 1, and are still fine, as is his anal fin (which also grew out). I also suspect he may have parasites as he poops only very little small solids (they are like 5mm long black/red turds) / had white mucus-y poop. I am getting General Cure and will treat him for this after his fins are healed back.
*How old is your fish (approximately)?* I have no idea.

I can try and take pictures if needed but Fish moves like a _bullet_.
Edit: This is how my tank is usually set up, and how it's set up now but with the water lowered a little. I put the column decoration back in because I suspect taking it out stressed him even more to bite his tail that badly. Picture is from when Fish was in full health and his fins were gorgeous.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

I forgot to add that I fast Fish once a week, normally on Sundays. Getting kind of anxious at the lack of replies...


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It probably created an ammonia spike. Those feeders aren't anything good.

I would increase your 90% change to an 100% change including a rinsing of the gravel to remove poop and debris. This is important, but if you do it right it won't hurt him. I do my changes like this: 

The 50% changes the betta can be kept in the bowl and use a turkey baster to remove half the water and as much of the debris as possible. For the 100% you need to remove him - scoop him out with a plastic solo type cup and set aside while you thoroughly rinse the bowl and gravel to remove the debris. Then he should be acclimated to the new water by floating for an hour while you slowly add a couple tablespoons of new water to the cup every 10 minutes. When you release him, try to let as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. All water changes should use same temp water, matched to running tap using the in tank thermometer and the water needs to be premixed with conditioner before adding it to the betta tank. If you don't already have anything, you can use gallon water jugs from the grocery store - rinsed thoroughly in hot water but no chems. 

Stress coat and aQ for 10 days would be a fine treatment. I would increase AQ to 1 tsp per gallon. Make sure you predissolve it and you only need to add more along with a water change. Only add back as much as water you change.

Mucasy poop can be a sign of stress and water quality issues.. it just means something is irritating the stomach lining. What and how you are feeding could also lead to constipation issues which can cause it as well. But watch it some more because red stringy is normal.. and this is hexamita: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=OUNBUbfvL5TE4APq5oGIDw and if it stays like this I will teach you had to treat it.. you will need to feed meds

I would change feeding some.. I would nix the flakes and nutrafin and only feed omega one. If you want to mix it up try mixing with New Life Spectrum Betta or Attison's Pro. 3-5 of those spit up into twice a day feeding (am and pm) would be fine. One fast day a week should be a staple. If you want to reinforce time in the cup, put the cup sideways and put a pellet in the back. Feed another pellet once he's right side up and calmed down.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I can't tell you about tail biting but I can tell you the column decoration you have has some rough spots. I filed some off before using mine. I have taken mine from the tank. I plan to fill a gap behind the column with aquarium glue because a betta could get stuck there and to paint any gritty feeling surfaces (mostly in back) with aquarium glue so they will be smooth before I put it back.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

*callistra: *Yeah, I'd read up on the vacation blocks before using them and figured they would do some damage, but reviews were a 50/50 so I gave it a shot. I'm never using them again. ):

No gravel - can't be bothered to clean substrate. My river rocks are large chunks that I rinse off good and well with warm/hot water, and cool before adding back into the fresh tank.

I haven't done 100% changes because I've read that those are the easiest ways to kill your fish. Now that I'll have to do them every day for a week I'm really worried! As long as I acclimate him every day will that stress him out too much? I normally dump all the water in his changing cup (cup I got him in from Petsmart) back into the clean tank as the 10% (after acclimating of course!). He absolutely hates being in that cup though, even if it's for less than ten minutes while I scrub down and rinse out the surfaces of the tank (no soap).

Decent Betta foods are impossible to find where I am, and Omega One was the best thing they had. I'd like to feed Jungle anti-parasite pellets but they don't stock them here... Omega One ARE the flakes. I was going to go for OO Pellets initially but my Petsmart has been out of stock for those forever. I can't feed bloodworms, not even frozen, as much as he'll probably love those because (1) parasites urgh (2) I have unfortunate and extreme worm phobia. If I ever get planaria or worms in my tank I'd seriously flip out...

I always pre-dissolve my salt before adding, so no issues there. I cut back on the salt because I'd been adding it prior to this issue and I was worried the bacteria or whatever would build immunity. I guess with his current condition there's not much of a choice?

I'm so worried, even though I'm glad it's just tearing and not one of the more serious issues like dropsy or swim bladder. Just... my poor baby! Looking at his tail makes me want to cry for being such a terrible owner... I'm at work and only see him in the mornings / at night so it was difficult to determine it was tail biting until I saw that entire chunk of his tail gone.

About his poop: Thank god, but it's not hexamita. It was fluffy little things that floated around the tank in his first month or so; his current issue is that I hardly see any poop at all and if I do, they're tiny little turds. Not the good, long, solid, semi-squishy red lines of poop I hear about. I'm wondering if it's constipation, but fasting and feeding peas haven't done anything for him.

*jadaBlu:* I'm definitely not keeping it! The sharp edge is still there and I'm not risking him tearing again, even if I know it's due to tail biting now. I'm opting to pick up one of these Top Fin Windham Ornaments that seem too slick to have any edges that could pose any danger when I go in to pick up the General Cure and do an exchange for decorations tomorrow. Only problem it might pose is that it's really large and will probably take up a lot of the space in my tank. I just hope he doesn't flip out again not having something to swim around in for the day, he's a lot calmer now after I put it back in. Or maybe that's the Stress Coat talking.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Just feel the edges for sharp edges even those have some you might have to sort through the bunch for the best one. I didn't notice any problems with the column decoration after filing it down but my fish has far less tail than yours does. I figure I will take extra precautions anyway now that I have the AQ glue.


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## Seki (Jul 10, 2012)

You know, I had a tailbiter, and your fish sounds rather similar to him. Zen had a gorgeous halfmoon doubletail when I bought him. When he passed away, he had nothing left but a stump! In the interest of not letting this happen to Fish, I'll tell you what I did with Zen and see if you can maybe glean something from my experiences.

Month one: Purchased Zen at a petstore and brought him home to his brand-new 5.5 gallon. It was filtered, heated, and the water was conditioned. I had two silk plants and three decorations in there for him to explore. He seemed to settle in quickly and began bubblenesting two days after I got him. Everything seemed copacetic as I began my fish-in cycling of the tank.

Month two: Fish-in cycling was going well and I was doing regular water changes to keep the tank's parameters in appropriate ranges. I noticed Zen's tail becoming slightly ragged at the ends and decided he must be tailbiting as I had already checked all of his decor before putting it in the tank, and I had baffled the filter. Several days after first noticing the ragged fins, I caught him tail-biting. I switched up the decor in his tank (rearranged it) and switched his food up a little. Things seemed to be going better.

Month three: After the tail had begun to heal, I noticed it getting worse again. Chunks missing now... he was really doing a number on himself. Worse, he had gotten himself infected and the edges of his fins were bloody red. I asked for help on the forum and was advised to put him in a QT for salt treatment and/or meds if the salt didn't work. I put him in a 1/2 gallon hospital tank (since he wasn't swimming very well) and did aquarium salt treatments for five days. His fins seemed substantially better, so I put him back in his tank after the treatments and he seemed fine.

Month four: all quiet on the western front

Month five: tail-biting returns with a vengeance! Zen went to town shredding his tail. I tried desperately to figure out what was causing him to do this. I changed food, I rearranged decor, I even tried turning off the filter at one point. Nothing worked... I kept his water pristine, changing it twice a week (more than necessary for a cycled 5.5 gallon), but he still managed to get another infection, worse than before. I tried more salt treatments... they weren't helping, so I discontinued them before I damaged his labyrinth organ. I purchased an anti-fungal medication from API, but never ended up using it. His tail dwindled and dwindled, and as his tail got worse, I noticed his other fins looked ragged as well. Fin rot... I have to believe it was brought on by his tail-biting habits leaving him open to infection.

Month six: Zen is doing poorly. His tail has been whittled down to little more than a stump, though he is still swimming around as always. He pauses to rest a lot and spends more time than he used to just hiding beneath his bridge. He still has his appetite, but he looks absolutely terrible. His tail, which used to be long and beautiful, is now shorter than any of his other fins. He seems unhappy and I don't know what to do for him anymore.

Month seven: Zen's tail is showing absolutely zero signs of regrowth. The red around the edges is gone, but all of his fins are in tatters. He is a mess, and I don't know how to help him anymore. I come home from work one day to find that he is gone.

I'm not 100% sure what happened with my fish, but there you have it. Maybe take steps I didn't and treat with meds if necessary? All I know is, tailbiting is NOT something to ignore! I firmly believe my fish died as a direct result of his tailbiting... despite my efforts to save him. It sounds like you have a really good set-up for your boy. I hope you can get this sorted out soon!


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

*jadaBlu:* Definitely going to feel the decor first this time. I was thinking about getting a bridge ornament or a cave ornament; went to the store, saw how pathetically small they were (read: Fish likelihood of getting stuck extremely high) and just gave up. I might just switch to a combination of Anubias/Java Fern/fake silk plants as decor instead of anything made of plastic or resin. My house is too poorly lit for them for overtake my tank, the Java Fern I got a month ago is thriving but hasn't been "shooting off" like I've heard it's prone to do.

*Seki:* ...oh god, reading your post made me almost cry. I don't know what I would do if Fish deteoriated that badly, I would never forgive myself. I'm definitely not treating the tail-biting lightly, especially since his tail is already showing bloody stumps. I'm so sorry to hear about Zen!! It's just the worse feeling like you're on a jerkstring with that recovery, and then sickness, then recovery, then sickness again... Thank you for the well wishes!


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

Decided he was calm enough for a photo, so here's pictures of the damage. This is how awesome his fins used to be before the splitting and fraying ):










The first split, right after I took out the feeding block. V
















Not so bad, right? It closed up a couple days after.

Today. V








Unfortunately you can't see his tail too well against the background, but it's terrible! Ignore the bubbles on the tank glass, I can't help it with a tiny uncycled tank.

He's been calmly swimming around the last few hours since I did his WC, although I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I just want to look in his tank and be like BAM! HEALED 100%!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You shouldn't use aquarium salt unless he's actually sick. It will breed a resistance that makes it useless in case of actual infection. It can also lead to premature organ failure if you use it too much.

It looks more shredded/torn than anything. ARe you seeing any discoloration to the tips? Any black/grey/red or thinning?


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

callistra: So do I keep adding salt for his fins to heal, or stop it and just use Stress Coat for now? I'm confused... Also, am I wrong on his diagnosis for tail biting? I thought it was shredding/splitting initially too but it became like this even after I took out all his decorations :/

Some of the tips are red, yeah, and one of the long rips has a line of red down it. I'm really hoping infection doesn't set in. Just checked in on him and he's lugging around two tiny bubbles on the ends of two shreds.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

That's infection.

How long have you been using salt? It's only safe to use up to 10 days. If it's been longer than that you will need antibiotics. 

It's really imperative at this point thought that his water is kept perfect. I would do 50% change every other day and 100% at week's end including rinsing the rocks and tank. If you do it properly the way I described it can't hurt him.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

I thought it was just blood from nipping too close to blood vessels. I used salt in his last 100%, so it's about close to ten days now. Should I just focus on Stress Coat then? And what antibiotics should I pick up? There's a Bacteria Cure thing in the same line of API General Cure, is that it?

Would it be better to do 100% changes everyday instead of 50% every other day?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I've had fin nipping problems on several of my boys and they were all clean tears, so IDK about red from biting..

There is no med called "bacteria Cure" by API.. I'm not sure what you are thinking of. Triple Sulfa is good broad spectrum antibiotic by API though. 

Well I don't think it's really needed in this size but you can continue this if you choose.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

I could be totally wrong, but I am leaning toward this being tail biting. The reason is the first picture of the first tear. See how there is like two strips? I have noticed from breeding, that bites to each others tails have this same type pattern to them. It has to do with the shape of their mouths and two "protusions" or "teeth" (they do not have teeth,but I don't know what to call them) That bettas have in their mouths.

I have never had a tail biter. I do think, just from reading about it, that it may be some form of anxiety. just an opinion of course. 

Bettas seem to like bright colors. This may seem silly, but I always thought if I came upon this problem, I would just place brightly colored items outside the tank everyday. I would first let him see me handling these things so he isn't scared of them, and then place them next to the tank. Baby toys are great for colorful items. Also, I use to breed birds. There is a bird toy that is a string of brightly colored rings. On the last ring is a little bell. One of my first bettas, I took that toy and took some fishing line weights and weighted down the last ring. I hung it from the support bar on the lid. That betta LOVED that toy! swimming in and out of it, and eventually he even started hitting the bell at the end of it. You ca hear bells under water. People use a string of bells during scubba diving cause it is a noise that you can hear under water. That is a simple, and cheap toy you can get and really the only toy I can think of for a fish, even though it is really a bird toy. 

Hope your Fish gets better. If you do try some of these things, introduce the things to him so as not to make him even more anxious from something unfamiliar. He is a beauty! Hope things get better.
(I think I'm gonna go buy a few of those toys again for my fish now.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

*callistra:* If it isn't biting then I really have no idea how Fish got so torn up ): and that makes me reaaaally worried

I didn't know the names of the medications off my head but I saw a couple of those boxes that treated for bacterial infections. I'll look up on Triple Sulfa, thank you!

I'll keep an eye on him, if it looks even worse tomorrow then I'll do 100% changes. If not then just 50% tomorrow and 100% the day after. I'll post if I have any news. Thank you for your help! 

*Edit: louisvillelady: *Sorry, didn't see your post until after I hit enter! The bird ring sounds like a really cool idea, but I'd be worried about the plastic or metal of the bell leeching into the water, or getting his fins stuck in the gap in the bell. I'm also going to go broke spending so much on medication/new decor. I've spent almost close to $200 so far and my partner's getting a little annoyed with me for spending this much on a $10 fish I think! Hopefully I can get store credit back for that decoration tomorrow.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It looks like tears, either from snagging or overflaring. However, this can become infected even though it starts this way.

I've stopped the biting problems in all my fish. One was from internal parasites. One.. he's just neurotic.. putting him in a 10g with live plants and playing mediation music all day finally put an end to it. The third is older and his gi tract is kinda slow and whenever he poops he bites his fins.. I have odd fish. Stress coat and vitachem also help

Bettas bite out of stress, illness, and sometimes just plain temperment/personality.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

callistra said:


> I've stopped the biting problems in all my fish. One was from internal parasites.


I wonder if that's it with Fish? Considering his poop issues... I'm getting General Cure anyway, maybe I'll dump that in with Maracyn/Sulfa and see what happens.

Edit: Probably not a good idea to mix them. Maybe I'll try General Cure after his fins heal up as stated before.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can't combine all those ingredients.. you can kill him.

If it is internal parasites GC will not be effective. Internal parasites need a 3-4 week treatment and GC is not safe for this long a period of time. Meds will need to be fed, if it gets to that.

If you want to try treating for this I would do nothing else (except epsoms maybe) and this method exactly: 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=130469&page=0#post1451846


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

Yeah I realized that right after I posted. Petsmart was out of stock AGAIN for GC and Mardel Maracyn, but I did manage to pick up Triple Sulfa. I'm planning to use a 1/10th of the packet with his WC today since I'm filling up his tank to about 1.8G now.

Two days with Stress Coat and while I haven't noticed any noticeable healing, I don't see the red spots on his tail anymore and he's calmed down a lot from his usual darty swimming. He also blew a one-inch bubble nest in the corner that I'm unfortunately going to have to destroy when I do his 100% later ): I've realized though that he seems happier with less water in the tank, possibly because then the heater actually heats up the water to a good temperature at the 1.5G it was meant to heat instead of the normal 2G I fill it up with. I might stick with this water height even after he heals (hopefully!)

I've decided as well to do away with resin/plastic deco and just go for a more natural look: picked up another java fern (it looked healthy which meant it was probably a fresh stock but it had been stupidly buried in gravel, with the rhizome completely suffocated by cotton thread wrapping it up as well, I couldn't see anything but thread and had to cut it apart to free it, hopefully it doesn't die on me) and am quarantining it in a new 1G bowl. Also picked up a 6" silk plant that I'll put into the tank after the WC today. 

The salesgirl apparently gave me two leaf-things of Cabomba when she scooped up my java fern, and after reading up on it, it propagates by cuttings? I can see a little bit of stem with some nodes on it so I'm hoping it'll regrow again, but since its lighting requirements are different I might just grow it in a pickle jar separately and then put excess in my tank whenever it overgrows.

If anyone has any thoughts please let me know!


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Fishie, my Rosetail HM is a chronic tail biter. He started biting after I had him for about 2 months. I thought it was because of the filter current because it increased when the cartridge got gunked up and started flowing out of the overflow area. I moved him to a 1-gallon to treat him with AQ salt while I got the filter in the 5 gallon straightened out. His tail was healing really slowly because of my hard water at the time. Once the 5 gallon was running ok, I moved him back in there. But he kept biting. :-(
When I moved in November, my mom's friend gave me a 10 gallon tank that a former boyfriend of hers had left at her house. I divided it for my three bettas, and put Fishie in the opposite side of the tank from where the filter is. There's no filter current in his section, but he continues to bite his fins. He even keeps his ventral fins short! I think he just got into the habit of doing it and now he won't stop. It's really sad because his tail was soooo beautiful and now it's all ragged all the time. :-(
Hopefully your boy will stop biting. But there are chronic biters out there who never stop biting their tails.
Even my HMDT bites sometimes, but it's almost always his dorsal fin! It usually grows back in for a while before he bites it again, so it doesn't look bad for very long.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can't dry cut meds. It is not accurate enough. When dosing you dissolve the full dose of meds in the same parts of something as the med is meant to treat.. so for the Triple Sulfa that is meant to treat 10 gallons, dissolve in 10 parts treated/tank water.. either 10 cups or 10 tablespoons etc. then take as many parts of the mixture into the tank as water your tank holds.. so for your 2.5g, use 2.5 of the same parts into the tank.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

Oh god, you can't?! Good thing I haven't started! Geez though, where would I find a ten gallon container on such short notice... I've got a recycling plastic bin that might hold that much but I don't know how I would keep the mixture. I don't think I have enough containers to hold 10g of liquid! Urgh...

Edit: Cal, I found an older post where you replied, another owner measured out the medication using a weight scale. My partner has a digital scale, do you think it would work if I did the same? I really don't think I can have ten 1G milk jugs around the house full of this stuff lol. As much as I think it would be better to mix it in the way you described!

Double edit: It must be idiot day for me. I just realized you meant ten *parts*, not gallons! I might be able to do that, especially since a cycle is four doses. It's safe to mix with Stress Coat yeah? Since SC is a dechlorinator but with aloe Vera?

OrangeAugust: That's terrible D: I love Rose tails, it sounds like such a pity your bad boy doesn't stop biting his tail!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Stress coat is fine to use.

Should have added you need to toss the extra mixture and mix a fresh dose daily because the meds start to lose their effectiveness once they hit liquid.


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

Huh, maybe I'll use the scale measure to do it then, if they don't work as well while mixing... I'll have to add it relatively soon, just came home and Fish bit another bunch out of his dorsals and there's red on there now too when there was none this morning ): I'll post updates in a couple days if anything changes, thank you!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I would suggest the mix method. Scales are often off and when you're talking about such a small quantity the liquid mix method is the safest.

Good luck!


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

Hey Callistra, I did the mix method in the end - I guess I hadn't considered exactly how small the medication packet was! I just did the second day's 100% WC with second dose.

Still no changes regarding regrowth so far (although it looks like he hasn't been biting at least anyway), but one thing concerning me is that Fish really hates to go in the cup; he's actually actively trying to avoid it now even with a pellet/flake tossed in (while catching him and after getting him upright; he doesn't eat them either but will eat again if I feed him when he's back in the tank). I am acclimating him for the recent WC and he's wriggling furiously all around the cup, slamming himself against the floor bottom and the walls trying to "return" to the tank. New blood spots formed on the end of his tail fin just after I typed this. ): It's kind of a one step forward two steps back thing going on here, but it's pretty distressing watching him hurt himself over and over...

Once he's back in the tank he behaves as normal though, swimming around and eating normally. He just HATES the cup. I can't think of any other way to change his water 100% and acclimating him after without it. The weird thing I've noticed is that his pelvic and anal fins keep getting longer and longer with the water changes, which is a good thing, but I wish the fin regrowth rate on his other damaged fins would be just as fast!


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

More TL;DR progress!

I'm almost done with the first round of Triple Sulfa, just put in the fourth dose. *I don't know if this is the right thing to do, but I'm going to discontinue the daily 100% changes. *Fish, while still very healthy in terms of behavior, eating, and swimming, has been worse to his own tail since I started messing with his WC schedule - now almost half of the half that was originally there has been lost to his biting. I caught him swimming in circles for half an hour yesterday just idly chasing and nipping at his tail until I went over and chased him a bit with my finger to get him to stop. ): All his other fins are actually growing out, including the nips in his dorsal - but his tail. He's trimmed it down so much it would make a Plakat jealous.

This is what I've done the last week with Triple Sulfa (mix method):

*Day 1 of treatment:* 100% change, 1st dose out of four. Lowered the water in his 2.5G to 1G, dosed 1 part sulfa, and 2.5ml Stress Coat (instructions 1ml per gallon). Tail: Fresh damage with some red spots as posted previously.
*Day 2:* 100% change, 2nd dose after 24 hours as per instructions. 2ml Stress Coat and 1 part sulfa to 1G water. Tail had healed up slightly and red spots had disappeared, but reappeared from new damage during acclimation him back to the WC. Tail chewed a little more than previously.
*Day 3: *Removed 25% - 40% of tank water, replaced with equivalent with Stress Coat. Tail healing very slightly; translucent webbing growing back (0.5mm).
*Day 4:* 100% change, 3rd dose, 1.5 parts Sulfa and 2.5ml Stress Coat to 1.5G. Tail bitten again, only about 1cm between shortest part of tail and Fish's body.
*Day 5 (today):* 100% change, fourth dose, 1.5 parts Sulfa and 2.5ml Stress Coat to 1.5G.Tail slightly shredded at shortest end (I think that was the furthest he could reach back without breaking his spine). Currently acclimating, ready to go in half an hour. Noticed a little "hole" in his tail maybe 0.1mm big, near the tips where he was biting.

*Other notes:* I've noticed that his worst attacks seem to come every time he feels he doesn't have sufficient space to hide (the first time I took out the column decoration, he ate half his tail; took out the five-leafed Java Fern to dose him but put in a 6" silk sword plant instead; he bit his tail, etc). 

Along with the second Java Fern mentioned previously, I also picked up a four-leafed Anubias (yeah, crappy, but it was the only one they had and they're forever out of stock), and a little plastic Hermit Crab house for him to hide in (was the only thing without sharp edges). The Cabomba turned out more trouble than I could handre so I tossed it (dried out, in the garbage bin). 

The Hermit House wouldn't stay sunk as I originally suspected, so I've put it sideways in the tank like how I've seen some people do with pots in their Betta tanks, with some of the river rocks weighing it down. The plants come out of quarantine tomorrow after I finish his last 100% WC, then I'll arrange them in his tank so he has plenty of things to hide in while still having swimming room space. I'm thinking of going back to my 50%, 100% WC schedule while keeping up with Stress Coat; the daily changes don't seem to be helping him heal and he healed a lot faster with his pelvic fin rot when I first got him and didn't WC so frequently. Then again, I was using aquarium salt, but I can't use it now since I used it too much before, so idk. :/

Is this a bad idea? I just don't see any improvement...


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## ptps (Mar 14, 2013)

I feel like I'm talking to myself. 

*Anyway, update:* Fish's tail is finally healing back (yay!), there's new transparent growth starting (about 5mm to date) and while it's very slow, it's definitely progress. The additional plants definitely helped, he's a lot calmer and hasn't been biting now that he has stuff to hide in, although he hates the hermit house (what a waste). I might pick up another silk plant for him in future since my java fern seems to die/thrive in halves but for now he's doing great.

As usual, with every progress he makes there's a little set back: Right at the area where his new tail is growing out, where it meets the rest of his old tail, a little dark/black spot appeared on the last day of his WC. I've suspected it might be the start of fin rot so I've changed his water again and will keep it changed 50% every 2 days, with a 100% at the end of the week because he took very badly to daily 100%. I've also added aquarium salt for now but will stop if there is no progress by end of the week and retreat with Triple Sulfa. 

I'm keeping a close eye to make sure no other spots appear, so far looks good.

*In other news, because I need to rant and no one reads this thread anyway: *The place I work has a 10 (maybe 15?) gallon tank with a bunch of non-Betta, exotic freshwater fish in it. (The tank was previously housing a single google-eyed Goldfish, who has since been rescued and rehomed into a 5G after the guy taking care of him quit.) Every weekend I go in to look at the fish in the 10G and it horrifies me because:

(1) The fish are obviously suffering, the tank hasn't been changed or washed since the Goldfish got taken out and it shows. The substrate is ridiculously filthy, it's completely black. You can literally see feces all over the decorations, even Goldfish feces from when it was still living in there a month ago. I can't imagine the NO2/NO3/NH3-N build-up in there.
(2) At least 80% of the fish die every week, and new ones are introduced immediately to replace them without being quarantined or acclimated.
(3) It's overstocked, there are at least ten -twelve fish every time. The fish are not tiny fish so I'm pretty sure at least some of them need a 20G.
(4) All the new additions of various species into the tank without quarantine has brought about some serious health issues that have either been ignored or just not noticed due to ignorance. The tank currently has a horrendous case of Ich, fin rot, and there are always at least two -four dead fish stuck in the tank that don't get removed until the people come back on the weekdays. The fish with Ich are literally covered in a white specks.

I'm thinking about bringing it up when they get in tomorrow but I'm nervous because (1) I don't work directly with them, so it might be none of my business / kind of rude (2) I'm not an expert on fish. But even an amateur like me can recognize what's wrong with their tank and why their fish keep on dying! I've seen almost twenty fish die in the one month they've had the tank and it's driving me insane. I want to tell them to stop buying the damn fish, clean out the filthy substrate and scrub the whole tank, and just quarantine / re-cycle the entire tank for a while until it's clean before adding more.


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

Can you offer to take care of the tank? Maybe that would be a relief to them. 

Glad to hear your betta is getting better, but booo for a new dark area. It is interesting that tail biting seems to have so many causes. Glad you found some solutions!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

> In other news, because I need to rant and no one reads this thread anyway....


 I'm glad that Fish's tail is on the mend. I have a chronic tail biter, so I understand what you're going through! 

If you don't mind taking care of the tank at work, then as VJM suggested, maybe offer to take care of it. 

Who keeps buying the new fish? I'd think that would start to get rather expensive. Maybe talk to whoever keeps purchasing the new fish, and offer to work with him/her in order to keep the tank clean?


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