# VERY sudden white belly and white spots! PLEASE HELP!!!



## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

So while at work today my mom phoned and said my betta, Duke, had a white belly and some other white spots on his body. This is pretty abnormal as he is usually a deep purpley blue colour. It seems to have spread VERY quickly as he did not have any white on him when I left in the morning for work. My mom looked at him again a few hours later when I got home and she thinks it is worse. I can't tell what it is - I have read a little bit about ick - not sure if this is what he has or not. Or maybe fin rot??

He has been really up and down in terms of mood for the past month or so - lately he has been in a better mood, eating lots, coming to say hi etc. but he does like to hang out in his little ship a lot of the time. His fins have also been more ragged - I tried treating with BettaFix but that didn't do much. I also just put in some aquarium salt.

I tried to take some photos -

















Here is the questionnaire:
Housing: 2.5 gallon mini bow
What size is your tank? 2.5 gallon mini bow
What temperature is your tank? 26-28 celsius
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta Bites
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once or twice a day, anywhere between 1 and 4 pellets a day depending how eager he is

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Once a week.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25-50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
No

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Rapidly developing white belly and white patches, ragged fins
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Very up and down moods. Likes to hang out in ship or at bottom.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Tonight! He was fine this morning.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Aquarium salt
Does your fish have any history of being ill? He has always been a bit up and down - especially in the past few months.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Just over a year


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, yeah he's got a bad case of fin rot on top of it.

Those red scratches looks like he's been heavily scratching against decor which is bad news. And the white belly is due to stress. However those white spots are not Ich, Ich looks more like your Betta is sprinkled with salt where these are white patches.

How long and how much have you been using the Aquarium salt?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Hmm that's what I was thinking. 

I have just started using salt yesterday. I had tried putting some in periodically about another ago. But not consistently. Yesterday I put in a teaspoon and a half. How would you recommend using salts?

And what other treatment would you reccomend?

I love my little buddy so I would really like to help him any way I can!!


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

IMO a 2.5g needs more frequent water changes even though you are running a filter. I would test the water either myself or take it to a store for testing, preferably with a liquid test kit. When you added the aq salt, did you predissolve it in a glass before adding to the tank? DO NOT use anything with fix in it, bad for a labrynith fish.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I will see if I can get a water test kit after work today.

No I didn't dissolve the salt beforehand. I just followed the instructions on the box which didn't mention to do that.

Any other suggestions on treatment?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If those white dots fuzzy , fluffy cottony like patches it bacterial/fungal infection.
If just white dots looks like he sprinkled with salt-ick. The ick i saw a few times on the fish started as just white spots in one place then spread really fast all over the body. So if he has just white spots that are spreading and they are not fluffy cottony looking and if he is scratching himself on the walls, heater, decoration it can be and i am pretty positive ich.
Now just like lilnaugrim said do you think white belly from the scratching? If yes then he trying to scratch himself and it tell you he has ich, also fish will dart around.
Since his immune system compromised it is possible that fish can have internal parasites and external all together. And when fish has internal parasites they have discolored belly. Usually gray. So we want to rule out internal parasites. Check his poop. With internal parasites his poop will be white, clear,stringy wormy shape. With internal parasites a lot of the time fish become bloated.(bloated belly)

So go to the pet store and buy aquarium salt as soon as you can . I would also buy medications just in case.
Aquarium salt also antibacterial/antifungal so it also helps with fin rot. But if he has ext parasites it more and faster deadly so you need to take care of it .
With external parasite you need to raise the temperature if you can slowly though do not stress him out with sudden change up to 84*-85*. The temperature will speed up parasites life cycle and help them to fall faster so you can remove them with daily 100% water changes. 
So 
1) Go buy aquarium salt at the pet store. Pre mix 3tsp/gall. Make sure it dissolved before you add it in his hospital tank.Just stir it around or more the in circular motions until you don't see crystals. Do 100% daily water changes daily. Make sure you acclimate him really slowly to the new water. Do you need instructions on acclimation?
2) Take everything out from the tank so you can monitor his poop so we can rule out internal problem.

3) Make sure the white patches are not cottony , fluffy . The reason i ask that i want to make sure it not fungal , bacterial infection because it going to get worse with warmer temp. I will try to find picture to show fish with fluffy,cottony white picture. But i am 80% sure it not .

Take the filter out and everything out from his tank. Rinse everything with hot water and leave it to air dry completely for a few weeks. It will kill parasites and any other bacteria. Put all gravel and everything else so it don't touch each other so it don't retain the water. 
Also rinse and dry out changing equipment after each use until next day so it will also kill parasites.
Also Personally, I don't try to cycle small tanks. It doesn't take much for the cycle to crash, and when it does, it can harm the health of the fish. For me, it's just easier to do two water changes per week: one 100% and one 50%. 
Or if you still want to cycle your tank you need at least 2-50% water changes with gravel vacuuming and filter media swish/rinse weekly in the old water or dechlorinated water.

Also ich due to a photosynthetic process,meaning it will get worse with light. So if you have light in his tank keep it off and try to keep his tank as dark as possible.

Also the instructions how to add up the salt so you end up with required dosage:
Add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Perform daily 100% water changes to remove fallen parasites before they can reproduce. Replace the water with the right amount of salt. Do not continue this treatment for more than 14 days. If it fails or you do not want to use salt, treat with Jungle’s Parasite Clear, API Super Ick Cure, or Kordon Rid Ich Plus.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

mkmcmaster said:


> I will see if I can get a water test kit after work today.
> 
> No I didn't dissolve the salt beforehand. I just followed the instructions on the box which didn't mention to do that.
> 
> Any other suggestions on treatment?


Hey i just replied to your previous post about your betta. If you can give us more info so we can figure out what wrong?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks for your help!

The spots do not look fluffy or cottony - just white. He was moving around too much to get a great photo unfortunately. 

But basically the underside of his belly is quite white as well as some white spots around his head, and some smaller spots closer to his tail. These seriously came out of nowhere. I left for work in the morning around 6:30 and by the evening he had these spots.

I'm pretty sure he had/has fin rot - his tail is not nearly as large or healthy looking as it is in my profile pic. But I am confused about ick. People are saying ick looks like salt has been sprinkled on the fish, but his spots are bigger than that, more like patches.

He's still acting reasonably normal - coming up to eat, saying hi when I come to see him. But he is spending a lot of time on the bottom, near plants, or in his little ship. As far as I have noticed his poop looks pretty normal too.

So are you suggesting that using the salts in a smaller hospital tank is the best treatment? Or should I be doing this in addition to medication, or just one or the other? And should I be treating for ick or for fin rot, or for both??


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

OMG please disreagard all my mess in your other thead..so sorry


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, when you use salt don't use other medications while you use it, it just causes more stress and it's a bad combo.

Do you have a smaller quarantine tank you can use? If not, just take out all the decoration and follow ANHEL123's advice up above. 

Salt will treat both his fin rot and whatever those white patches turn out to be, provided they are bacteria in nature.

You can still feed him while you treat him just make sure to take out any uneaten food so you don't promote bacterial infections further. In conjunction with the salt you could also use Stress Coat Conditioner, although I would hold off on that until your done with the salt treatment. Stress Coat is going to help heal up your boy's fins after the rot has gone away, it contains Aloe Vera which will help him.

Other than that, make sure his water is warm and clean while you medication him. Make sure to acclimate him everyday when you do your 100% changes.

Also yes, once a week on a 2.5 is too little. It's recommended to do either two 50% changes, one during the week and one at the end. Or one 50% and one 100% change. Keeping his water clean (but not too clean!) is what's going to help him stay healthy. Also when you change his water, don't wipe things down. I used to do this when I first started because I thought the slimy stuff on the decor, filter and heater were just that, slimy stuff. But actually those things hold your Beneficial Bacteria which is what keeps your fish from being poisoned by his poo 

I hope all our info helps you! Keep us updated and if you've got other questions or concerns, please ask away!

EDIT: Sorry, actually reading your last post liek I should have done before I commented lol. In a smaller tank, a 1 gallon is best because you don't have to use as much salt. In total you would use 3 teaspoons in a 1 gallon instead of the 7 teaspoons needed for a 2.5, see? It's also easier to do a 100% change on a 1 gallon without decor/gravel/filter in it, make sure it stays heated though. You can either switch the heater over or if the container is small enough, you can float him in his original tank to keep him warm.

And I don't think he has Ich, Ich would be the sprinkled salt as I had first mentioned and yes you are correct on that. So if he doesn't look like that, that's not what he has. It's something different but starting off with the salt is the best treatment for him right now until we completely figure out what he has. Salt treatments are fore most things on the outside of a fish's body, such a fin rot, Ich, Velvet, bacteria infections and external parasites. So if we're lucky enough, the salt treatment will take care of him and he won't need meds! So that's why we always try salt first, it's the cheapest "natural" medication for our fish besides the clean, warm water


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry for that other thread... How long and how much of the aquarium salt you was adding to the tank?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree with lilnaugrim. I just confused how long you been using aq salt. I saw your thread from 05/4 and i think you was using the salt then ? 
And also watch for any behavior changes let us know...i just want to make sure he is not rubbing against the objects .


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

mkmcmaster said:


> I will see if I can get a water test kit after work today.
> 
> No I didn't dissolve the salt beforehand. I just followed the instructions on the box which didn't mention to do that.
> 
> Any other suggestions on treatment?


You must predissolve the salt, adding it directly to the tank can cause injury to your fish. I would do as suggested, try the salt treatment for a few days if no change or he worsens then look at more serious meds. I don't like moving my fish, it seems to cause more harm than good for me, so if possible I'd treat him where he is.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Also ich due to a photosynthetic process,meaning it will get worse with light. So if you have light in his tank keep it off and try to keep his tank as dark as possible.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I used salt a few times before around a month ago, but not on a regular basis. I did 1.5 teaspoons for the 2.5 gallon tank. I'm just heading home from work now, so I'll see how he's doing and try the salt. 

So tonight how much should I put in?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay that's good. So you can use salt at a dose of 1 tsp/gal for 14 days, but you're going to need to do 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon so do no more than 10 days.

So if you keep him in his 2.5 gallon, you should take out any decor he can scratch himself on like that ship thing I saw in the picture. And any live plants if you have them.

Take a plastic cup, red solo cup or something that hasn't seen soap before. For a 2.5 gallon you'll need to use 7.5 teaspoons of salt for his tank in total. So mix up the 7.5 teaspoons in the cup with some of his old tank water. Mix it around until it's completely dissolved!

Take a tablespoon out and mix in one tablespoon of the mixture every 20-30 minutes or so to get him used to the salt. If you just throw the salt in there it's going to shock his system.

That's for tonight.

Tomorrow night you'll need to do a 100% change on his water, so take him out with a cup or something, empty his water, don't both wiping the tank or anything down. Just refill it with the same temperature water and add your conditioner. Then mix up your 7.5 teaspoons of salt again and add it to the tank. Float your boy in his cup, in the tank so he gets used to the temp again. Let him float about 15 minutes and start to add a little bit of his new water into his cup. About a tablespoon every few minutes or so until 35-45 minutes pass and you can let him back into the tank.

It will be best to keep his lights off so it doesn't stress him out. Also as ANHEL123 mentioned, if this disease multiplies in light, you need to turn the lights out. So just err on the side of cation, you could even throw a towel over his tank so that it gets really dark, don't worry he'll be fine and it will actually keep him nice and calm.

You can feed him as normal, make sure to take out any uneaten food so it doesn't rot. And that should be good for tonight.

Remember, do not use salt like this for more than 10 days without at least a week's worth of break and never for daily therapy as you had mentioned. It's a great "natural" medication though!


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> so sorry for that other thread... How long and how much of the aquarium salt you was adding to the tank?


5cc/1g, you can use the cap of Aqueon conditioner or a medication cup to measure it. Some other water conditioner or liquid fert has those measurement lines on the caps.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

So I did about a 3/4 water change in the 2.5 gallon tank, kept the light off, and took out all his plants and ship - I am slowly putting the dissolved salt mixture in. I have about 3/4 in now and I'll put the rest in in the morning. I still have the shells on the bottom of the tank as I didn't want to freak him out too much. Tomorrow I'll do a 100% water change, remove the shells, and continue salt treatment as was outlined. 

He ate a pellet when I came home and has still been swimming around a lot and mostly keeping his fins spread rather than clamped (yay). Since I took all his decorations out though he's kind of just chilling on the bottom when he's not swimming but like I said, fins not clamped, so that's probably a good thing. He had a poo which was a little stringy - one in the tank and one hanging from him that he seems to be struggling to get out, but still orange as usual, I will continue to monitor this.

How fast do you imagine this treatment should work? Do you think things sound okay so far? I wish I were able to stay home with him and monitor him throughout the day. Also to confirm, during this process I shouldn't have the filter on?

I'll try to snap a photo tomorrow morning to show how he is doing.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can keep the filter on but I recommend baffling it in some way. Here's how to keep a sponge baffle on if you can do it: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=56100

And yeah it sounds good so far, glad that his fins aren't clamped, that is a good sign. Does he still have those red scratches on him and how the white doing?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Okay I will put the filter back in and try that.

Here are some pictures I attempted to get this morning. He was super active and excited so he was moving around a lot. His temperament has been good and he seems especially happy to see me when I come. He appears to be quite hungry but his belly looks a bit bloated so I only gave him one pellet this morning and I'll monitor that when I get home.

His red blotches are still there, though they don't look quite as red. His white blotches are definitely still there - his belly is nearly entirely white and there is white on the side of his face/gills.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah the white belly is just from stress, he can still be active but be stressed.

His belly is still bloated? Did you feed him yesterday? If so, how much and what are you feeding him. Continue doing the salt treatment until you see no more red scratches and to see if it helps the white blotches. But do no go over 10 days at this dosage, alrighty?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

It became bloated this morning. I did feed him two pellets yesterday which is about his normal amount. I feed him BettaBites. 

Sounds good! Thanks for your help.

When can I reintroduce his ship and plants?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Alright, keep an eye out for his poop and report if it starts to turn white at all. Go ahead and keep feeding.

You need to do the daily 100% water changes until he's no longer bloating and the red/white patches go away. So treat for a week, keep all his ornaments and plants out of the tank to make it easier to see his poo and so he can't scratch himself anymore.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

good help but i don't think you need to keep filter at all. First i would not keep it if it external parasites and second with 100% water changes you really don't need it. And filter also should be rinse and dry out so no parasites left. I would assume if it working and especially has sponge it would keep parasites in. I would take out the filter.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree that white belly can be due to stress, but it worries me that he became bloated and has stringy poo which can be of course due to stress or due to internal parasites. It can happened that fish can have both internal and external parasites. So yes watch his poo. Let us know if it white, clear, broken white .
I kind of agree you really don't need to keep the filter. Usually you don't have to stop the filter , but you need to remove any carbon cartridge in the filter. But with ich i would remove the filter and also i agree do not add any decorations until you know he completely recovered. And it good to completely dry them out and keep them out for a few weeks.
Also give him food may be small portion a few time a day. If he indeed has internal parasites then he will pass them with his poo so it better when eats so he can pass them out.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I don't see anymore stringy poo at first glance, but he still appears to be a bit bloated - but very eagerly hungry. I just gave him one more pellet so as not to bloat him further.

Here are some pictures I just snapped. I only turned the light on for about a minute to get the pictures.

I plan to do a 100% water change in a few minutes. He is very active, swimming lots and staring at me even when I'm sitting on my bed next to the table he's on.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh his lips are swollen too! That's not good, I'm not experienced in that.

His white patches look like some sort of bout of columnaris, maybe am I overthinking it though? Hopefully someone else can chime in with that.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm not sure if his lips are swollen or not. I didn't notice that - maybe he just has large lips? 

What is columnaris? I just looked at this page: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78573

It doesn't appear to be fuzzy and he is eating well and is active ,so he doesn't seem to be showing all those symptoms.

I did my 100% water change and took out all the gravel. Should I wipe down the heater? It looks pretty grimey. 

He's swimming around quite contently it appears. Though he seems a bit confused by the lack of gravel haha.

When he rests on the bottom he is kind of tilting to one side though, but maybe I'm just being over observant now. I think he's just used to having something to rest on.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah probably not, I'm sorry, I'm super distracted right now but those lips are not the normal size and they're red too which is not a good sign, I'm sorry.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Keep him in the salt for now and do daily water changes . 
I don't know about heater i wipe everything when i change the water for my bettas .
Give us update , i am also confused with lips. Did he always had it or it just recently his lips got like that. See how he behaving. I would thinking if it columnaris it would get worse with warmer water though . But you saying that he behave the same. So keep water changes with 3tsp/gall aq salt. Give us update if there is any behavior or appearance changes. 
Are you able to buy or order medications?
With columnaris yes he would have fluffy cottony patches.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How about those tilting to one side white dots are they still there? How is his lips? You wrote that he is tilting to one side it because he is bloated.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

His white patches have not improved, if anything they're a little worse. It appears they're now on his side by his gills a bit too. 

He's eating without struggle, so I don't think that his lips are affecting him too too much. He had a big poop yesterday and he's less bloated now.

I think he's bored without anything in the tank, sadly. He swims around excitedly when I come but he kind of just chills on the bottom when I'm not there - again fins not clamped. Actually I have seen him swim around a bit even when I'm not staring at him too.

Here's a picture I snapped a few minutes ago.








Where should i be going from here? I did the 100% change and 7.5 tsp of salt yesterday. Should I do that again today? Should I be buying and medication?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes do another 100% and re-add the 7.5 teaspoons of salt. Unfortunately in order to keep him safe, you're going to have to forfeit things in his tank. He'll find something to do, just hopefully not scratching.

As far as medications I don't know whether this is bacterial or parasitic in nature so I won't be too much of help beyond that.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Okay I'll do another water change this evening. I think I might wipe down the heater because of all the grime on it too.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's fine


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Oh my, lots of stuff going on in this thread..... How about if I post a summary of what seems to be going on, then I'll post a couple of recommendations that I have?

*Summary:* 
2.5 gallon filtered tank, about 27C temp. 25-50% water change per week. Using Aquarium salt (7.5 tsp/2.5 gal = 3 tsp/gal.)
Thursday AM: White belly, white patches, ragged fins. Aquarium salt started.
Friday: Water changes, Aquarium salt added. Stringy poop, but normal colored. Red blotches? (Don't recall mention of this previously, but it says "still there.") Additional white patches. Bloated. Active.
Today (Saturday): Big poop, less bloated. White patches spreading.

*Discussion:*
The white patches indicate either ich (protozoan) or columnaris (bacterial infection). Both can be treated using 3 tsp aquarium salt/gal and daily water changes. But the temperature requirements for treatment are different: 
Ich - raise temp to 30C (86F).
Columnaris - lower temp to 24C (76F).
To me, the white patches appear to resemble Columnaris, not ich. I'm concerned that it's getting worse, despite the high aquarium salt dosage for 3 days. Also, the aquarium salt is causing fluid retention (belly, lips, etc). 


*Recommendations:* 
If this were my fish, I would: 
Stop the aquarium salt.
Do a 100% water change, using slow acclimation (over at least an hour).
Start using a gram negative antibiotic such as API Furan 2, Bifuran, or Jungle Fungus Clear. You could also use API Triple Sulfa, if you aren't allergic to sulfa drugs. (Jungle Fungus Clear is the cheapest of these, and is usually available at Walmart.) Be sure to remove the carbon from the filter while treating. This should help resolve both the white patches and the fin rot.
If possible, allow the temperature to drop SLOWLY to about 24-25C (76-77F).
If the bloating doesn't go away within a day, I would add 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt. Predissolve this in a little water (with conditioner). Add to the tank over the course of an hour. (This should help relieve fluid retention (bloating, swollen lips, etc).)
If the white patches don't go away after a full treatment cycle (several days, depending on the medication you use), this could indicate either a fungal or parasitical infection. If that is the case, let us know, and people can recommend treatment for this.
I would also consider switching to another food. Betta Bites has a lot of wheat and soy flour. In some bettas, this can contribute to bloating and constipation. Look into a high protein pellet. The two most often recommended on this forum are New Life Spectrum betta pellets, and Omega One Betta Buffet pellets.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thank you LBF, that certainly does clear things up a bit lol.

I'm still wondering though because the OP said that the size of the lips had not been out of the ordinary? Either way, all is good.

Also that's good to know about the API Triple Sulfa...I'll have to stay away from it!


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks so much for that summary and recommendations. Hopefully I can get out to pick up some medication tomorrow morning. I live in Canada so if those are American products that might be why I can't seem to find most of them at the places I usually go to. Are any of these good? http://piscespets.com/products/freshwater-fish/freshwater-medication/
I see the Triple Sulfa, I have no ide if I have an allergy - so I suppose go for that one then?

Here's the latest pic:









I agree, I think it might be getting worse - but again, his personality is still totally normal.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

From what I can find of the ingredients in those, there are two that I would recommend for Columnaris:
*API Super Ick Cure powder* - contains Nitrofurazone. (But check the package to make sure it contains this! The liquid version does NOT have it.)
*API Triple Sulfa* - contains Sodium Sulfathiazole, Sodium Sulfamethazine and Sodium Sulfacetamide.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Okay thanks. I'll ask the people at the store too. So you're thinking it's columnarus even though the patches aren't fluffy and he's still acting normal personality wise?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

mkmcmaster said:


> Okay thanks. I'll ask the people at the store too. So you're thinking it's columnarus even though the patches aren't fluffy and he's still acting normal personality wise?


Bad idea, I suggest never following advice from fish store people unless you absolutely positively know they are a fish expert, otherwise they're just roping you up and bringing you around the tree a few times.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

So I still think Duke is getting worse. Here is a picture:








His whiteness seems to have spread even more...

So I purchased API Triple Sulfa and have done a 100% water change, wiped down the heater, and have put in the medicine. This picture was taken immediately after doing that, so about 5 minutes ago.

He is hovering on the bottom with fins not-clamped. He seems to breathing quite heavily though. Or at least heavier than he usually does.

Just thought I'd post an update. Unfortunately I am going out of town for work for the next three days so my mom will be looking after dear Duke.

Should I be turning the light back on in his tank or leave it off?


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

One other step you can take and I know some will say it's not needed but you can aerate with a bubbler. Antibiotics can reduce oxygen in the water. While bettas surface and breath air they can obtain also some oxygen from the water. Duke isn't going to be surfacing as much while he is sick. So what can it hurt? You might warn your mother to lower the water level if Duke looks like he is having more respiratory distress.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I would NOT use a bubbler, or provide additional aeration, when dealing with Columnaris.

Columnaris (_Flavobacterium columnare_) is a gram negative *aerobic* bacteria. It thrives in warm, oxygenated water. 

When dealing with Columnaris, I, personally, would lower the temperature to about 76F, and remove any bubbler or aeration.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

mkmcmaster - Here is a good description of how Columnaris can present itself:

_"Skin lesions produced by columnaris initially are very shallow and may appear as an area that has lost its natural shiny appearance. More advanced lesions may be round or oval in shape, yellowish-brown in color, with an open ulcer in the center. A characteristic lesion produced by columnaris is a pale white band encircling the body, often referred to as saddleback condition......."_

Source:
Columnaris Disease - A Bacterial Infection Caused by Flavobacterium columnare


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

is it would be good idea to use aquarium salt along with medications to make it even stronger ? May be this way he can knock down the infection?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm out of town for work, but my mom is monitoring Duke for me. She said he didn't eat today and has mostly been hanging out on the bottom. No improvement on colour yet, but his fins aren't clamped. 

We're following the Triple Sulfa instructions so tonight he had his second dose put in.

Does anyone know typically how long that takes to show any effect?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

@ sunlight, generally you don't use salt and any sort of medication together just because it will stress your fish out even more which may result in a furthering of their disease. So best just to stick to the safe stuff unless you know exactly what you're doing 

@mkmcmaster I've never had to use it so I have no idea, I'm sorry. But I'm sure LBF can answer that


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

In general, if an antibiotic is effective, you should start to see an improvement within about 3 days or so.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Guys I think poor Duke is reaching his end.

His colouring is even worse he is becoming pale and patchy. 

My mom said he has barely left the bottom corner of the tank and hasn't eaten in three days. He'll only dart around the tank. He also tilts sideways. His one side is also a lot worse in terms of patchiness as well.

Any last tips???


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I've got nothing, I'm really sorry  I hope LBF's can chime in soon to hopefully help you and poor Duke!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Poor little guy....

Are you adding Epsom salt? (See post #36.) If so, what dosage?

And can you get a close up of him? I'd like to get a better look at the patchiness, and also see if there's any bloating.

Look at him from overhead. Are his scales flat? Or are they sticking out (kind of like a pinecone)?


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

No I haven't been adding epsom salt. Should I add that in with the Triple Sulfa? Honestly I think since I started the Triple Sulfa he is looking worse.

Here are some pictures I just took. Sadly that is the better of his two sides. He just isn't turning around so I can get a picture of his other side. 

He hasn't eaten again, so it has been several days now. He's just hanging out on the bottom. But his fins aren't clamped. He has darted around frantically a few times too.

Do you think maybe I should put some of his decorations back in? Maybe he's stressed because there's nothing in there and he's used to having somewhere to hide.

But I suppose another big question is when do I stop with treatments and just let nature take its course? I'm going away for two weeks a week from today and I need to provide my parents with some instructions.


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

Also, I have just discovered another disease I hadn't heard of - Septicemia - which the symptoms sound exactly like his. Can anyone weigh in on that?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Whatever he has progressing very fast obviously. So i don't think he getting worse from medications it just the disease that is progressing...
If he is bloated then you can add epsom salt and use it along with medications. If he is not bloated i would use aquarium salt along with medications.
Also i would really lower temperature even more you can slowly lower to 74.
I am not sure if you willing to try, you can try to find medications thatLittleBlueFishlets recommended in her post #36 and see if it would help. 
I am not really sure if he will make it , sorry for saying that but i think you need to be ready for the worse. No i am not saying to give up though. You doing wonderful job.
I would continue to use medications with 3tsp/gall of aquarium salt (if he is not bloated). I would do daily 100% water changes. I would try to do that along with lower temp very slowly to 74*

I think your guy has similar to this :
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78573


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## mkmcmaster (Mar 23, 2013)

I think today I am going to let Duke go.

He's only getting worse and I came home to find him barely breathing this afternoon. He hasn't eaten in nearly a week and barely moves anymore.

I have purchased clove oil since I have read that is the most humane way to euthanize a betta. I just can't watch him suffer like this.

Thank you all for your help. I have really appreciated it.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry for Duke you really tried your best for him Do you need instructions how to euthanize him?
http://www.oscarfishlover.com/helpful-articles/euthanize-fish

You have choice you can just let it die naturally if you not going to able to euthanize him. I don't think they feel pain , they definitely feel not comfortable though. And don't get discourage , because our loved bettas do get sick just like we are. And sometimes we can't save them but at least we save them from the store and he was loved .


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