# Big white patches, cloudy puffy eyes



## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

As you can tell from my name, I am a super noob at the fish thing. Please go easy on me, i am still learning.

I got my first betta 8 months ago. She is a steel blue. My profile picture is her when i first brought her home. Since I've had her, her health has deteriorated and I think it is due to my noobness. When i bought her she had 1 puffy eye. As soon as i got her in her new 2.5 gallon Aqueon tank with a carbon filter and mini heater, filled with zepherhills spring water, I gave her a round of antibiotics. Possibly fungus cure. I followed the directions on the box. After that didnt work, I dumped her tank, scrubbed everything with hot water, refilled with spring water and gave her a different antibiotic, probably tetracycline. Followed directions. No change. Did another cleaning. I may have done 1 other antibiotic. No change, cleaned tank. So I just decided she had a big eye naturally. I continued keeping her in her spring water for awhile and then learned about water conditioner. So I got Stress Coat + and Stress Zyme + and slowly introduced tap water with the two addatives to her until she was at 100% of that. Through out all this i fed her hikari betta-bio gold pellets, 3 a day in evening and sometimes a freeze dried blood worm as a treat. 

After having her a little while longer, she started developing a white edged patch that is slightly darker in the middle on her back end. No behavior change. Happy and hungry and swimming. I started with the antibiotics again and sometimes I would see a small improvement but mostly no change. It is hard figuring out what disease your fish has and the closest thing i could find was ammonia burns. So I started being rigorus with water changes and testing the ammonia with test strips. Most of the time the strip would be in the stress area. I was doing 50% water changes ever 3 days. And every couple weeks, dump the entire tank, scrub everything with hot water and replace with stress coat conditioned water. Her patch got worse and developed into a raised area where the patch was. I kept looking into how to lower the ammonia and finally figured out what cycling was. My tank only had a carbon filter and I've been dumping and cleaning the tank a lot probably destroying any helpful bacteria i had. I invested in a mini 3 stage filter (toms) and replaced the carbon filter. I've had it in the tank about 2 weeks. Ammonia levels havent changed so I know i need more time for the tank to cycle. Im just doing water changes now to keep it down. And I tested my tap water and it shows it starts with ammonia in it. Erg! So I ordered some Prime but dont have it yet. 

During my learning curve my betta has been getting worse. Her patch is now on both sides of her back end and her eyes are cloudy and puffy. It looks like she has little white specs right in the middle of her eyes, like cataracs. She is now developing a smaller white patch in the middle of her side. She started spending a lot of time sitting on the bottom of her tank only coming up for air. Then she started staying on her betta hammock that is 2 inches below the surface. Just laying there. She still ate fine. I moved her to a hospital bowl so i could give her meds and not mess up my cycling and so it would be more shallow. Its a bowl with 4 cups of stress coat water and it is sitting on a lizard aquarium heater with a thermometer in it. Temp is 80 degrees. I have administered tetracycline to her for 4 days. Doing 100% water change every 2 days. Her mood has improved over the 4 days. She is swimming, eating, making bubbles. But her patches and eyes still look the same. I need help determining what this is and what to do to help her get better permanently. Check links for pictures

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/little_c22/?action=view&current=Jewel.jpg

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/little_c22/?action=view&current=Jewel2.png

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? new 3 stage 
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? 3 stage has a spray bar
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? 3 hikara bio gold pellets and sometimes a freeze dried blood worm
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1x a day, fast on sunday

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? every 3 days
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? stress coat +, have added some stress zyme + to boost new 3 stage filter

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: .1 to .2 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate:
pH: 7.4 to 7.6
Hardness: ?
Alkalinity: ?

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? white flat patches, darker in middle, slowly growhing
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? getting more lethargic
When did you start noticing the symptoms? several months for patches, few days for lethargy
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? hospital tank, 80 degrees, tetracyclin for 4 days
Does your fish have any history of being ill? most of the time i have had her
How old is your fish (approximately)? bought her from store 8 mo. ago

Please help me nurse this poor fish back to health.:-(

Supernoob


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Pictures instead of links


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Anyone have any ideas? Should i keep going with tetracycline or try a salt solution?


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)




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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh my god...

Okay, lets see where to start... 

Never use bottled water, it deprives your fish of nutrients they get from regular tap water.. The Stress Coat+ is good, I use that all the time. You're doing alot right, like with water changes and a heater, it's basic stuff most people get wrong.

She looks like she has popeye, a tumor and i can't tell if it's a fungus or body rot.

I'm going to tell you to buy some stuff so here we go..

Aquarium Salt, you're going to do daily water changes in a Hospital Tank of 1 gallon. Find a heater if you can for a 1 gallon or place her hospital tank inside her home tank that has a heater so the water stays warm. 

You're going to be doing daily water changes and adding 1 TSP (teaspoon) of aquarium salt every day. Make sure the salt is fully dissolved before adding her into it. Also remember to use tap water and 1 cap full of Stress Coat.

Find some medications.. 

Maradel's Maracyn is good for Body Fungus as well as Popeye and some cloudy eye too.. It's a powder. Just use a little sprinkle every day with your daily water changes.

In the last photo it doesn't appear your fish (who actually looks like she is really a he) actually has a fuzz, which means that it might be a body fungus and not a true fungus, sounds confusing but there's actually a difference. Body Fungus is a bacterial infection and is best treated with Maracyn. 

Can you get more photos of your poor fish?


Oh, the reason i say she i think is actually a he is because of the ventral fins. In your avatar photo it looks as though it's a female, but i think it was just a young male since the other photos show long ventral fins. So i think your she is a actually a he


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## Virto (Nov 30, 2012)

Cheese has it spot on. Switch to tap water and use a water conditioner to remove chlorine and heavy metals. A hospital tank is a great thing to have handy, but if you don't have one, take the fish out, clean the tank and then fill it partially, depending on how large it is. Just don't use any soap or anything that might be harmful to the fish.

If you have a fairly large tank, buying a separate hospital tank setup is nice, because they are often much easier to handle while changing water frequently.

AQ salt is a must for keeping on-hand. Dissolve it in water and then add it to the tank, or dissolve it in the tank while the fish is out. If you add it to new water that you're going to pour into the tank, remember to use conditioner on it as well.

I've used Maracyn for popeye and eye-clouding, and it works, depending on the cause. Since we could be looking at a serious bacterial infection here, Maracyn (or Maracyn Two) is a very good idea. One packet treats 10 gallons, so you'll need to figure out how much of a packet you need to use at any one time. Dose the water daily for 5-7 days. The back of the box will tell you more.

Best of luck. Looks like this will not be easy or simple to beat, but we can give her (him?) a fighting chance.

Edit: Oh yhea, when adding the fish to a hospital tank or a clean new tank, make sure the water is as close as possible to the temperature the fish is currently in. This helps avoid shock.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

oh no, its so bad! She/he doesnt act like it but maybe thats because Ive never seen a happy fish. I need to go get a 1 gal tank and some maracyn. I'll just use the heater from her 2.5 tank. I have a bag of aquarium salt. When you say do water changes, do you mean 100%? I think that is what you mean cuz you said do tsp of salt. 

Here is something that is disturbing me. I got the API Master Test Kit yesterday and i did an ammonia test on plain tap water and then tap water with Stress Coat. According to the colors on the chart, the plain tap water was between 0 ppm and .25ppm and the tap water with stress coat was bright green like .5 ppm. Why would there be more ammonia in the water after I use stress coat?

Im going to the store to look for marcyn.


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## Virto (Nov 30, 2012)

Not sure. Are you using test strips or a liquid test? Strips are only marginally reliable.

You can use your existing heater, just be careful that it doesn't cause the tank to overheat. Move your thermometer if you have one. 78-82 would be perfect.

Just do daily changes of the water, since there will be no chance for the hospital tank to cycle. Get your new water ready beforehand, a little warmer than your tank water and then use your conditioner. By the time the conditioner does its thing, it should be down to an acceptable temp range to avoid shock.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

It's a liquid test. I get 5ml of water and add 8 drops of bottle 1 and then 8 drops of bottle 2. Shake and wait 5 min. I thought the liquid tests didn't measure "safe" ammonia. It would make sense if the stress coat is breaking down chloromine and rendering the ammonia harmless but I have no idea if its doing that. 

So a capful of stress coat is 10 ml. That's not too much for 1 gal?

I found some meracyn plus from the pet store. Is that good? They didnt have any 1 gal tanks. What do Yall use?


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

How do you guys do water changes? What do u do with your fish? Put him in a cup? Do u use your hand or a net? I read nets are bad. I have like a bazillion questions and searching the net is so confusing.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Try not to use your hands unless they are completely clean. Some nets are more rough than others and can cause problems with finnage getting caught. If you have his cup still and you can scoop him out then do that. Using a net though is still okay, just make sure you rinse it under a running faucet of hot tap water before and after each use.

Doing water changes you want to do 100% every day.

I use 1 whole cap full every time i do a water change in my 1 gallons while fish are being hospitalized, if you at all feel like that's too much you can use half a cap. I have never had any problems using a whole, but it's up to you completely.

If you live in an area where there is a WalMart then you can find 1 gallon diamond tanks for $10. They have a hood with a light and a bubbler, you won't need the bubbler but it's a steal to get it all for that price.

Keep an eye on the tank temperature with that heater in it. If the heater isn't supposed to be for that sized aquarium i've noticed with my fish they start freaking out. I don't know if it makes a noise or vibration in the water that bothers them or what, but they tend to like, spazz out. If you notice this at all just take the heater out. 

If you don't want to buy a hospital tank or are unable to (anything that's about 1 gallon should work, you don't always need to have it be a tank just so long as you never use it for anything else) you can always just lower the water levels in your aquarium like Virto said. Remove any and all gravel and give the tank a nice hot scrubbing under running water. Keep a plant or two in there so he doesn't get stressed out.

I've never used Maracyn Plus but that should work okay for the eye problems but it doesn't look like it will help with the body fungus. 

Look for this next time you go to the store:
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147323


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

i've got her in her new hospital tank now. its a plain 2.5 gallon tank and I just put 1 gal of water in it. I added 5ml of stress coat and 1 tsp of aq salt. I'll increase it slowly if she doesnt react to it. I put my heater in there and got it to 80 degrees (same as other bowl) before i moved her. I took a video of her so you can see her behavior and coloring better.

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/little_c22/?action=view&current=VIDEO0099.mp4

If it doesnt work let me know. I googled what the difference between the Maracyns were and im getting this:

Maracyn Plus is Sulfadimidine and Trimethoprin........It kind of covers everything a real broad spectrum with a fancy way of getting on to the fish. 
Maracyn is Erythromycin..............Gram Positive
Maracyn 2 is Minocycline ..............Gram Negative

I actually have a box of E.M. Erythromycin. Another thread said Minocycline is a tetracycline antibiotic which is what i gave her over the past 4 days. The bottle of maracyn Plus says that it contains microscopic biospheres that attach directly to the fish delivering the medication where it is needed. Prevents reinfection during treatment. If it really does that, that sounds awesome. All of this is still pretty confusing because there are so many meds out there. i hope the combo of the salt, stress coat, and antibiotic starts making a difference.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

(love your cat)

Your little girl is definitely a little boy, the long ventral fins i see on him in the video shows it. Thank you for posting the video.

He doesn't seem to be stressed, thankfully, and your heater clearly isn't bothering him, so that's also a great thing.

Does he at all seem to act like he can't see his food? I'm just wondering if he has any real trouble seeing. If you can find some frozen glass worms to feed him the extra nutrition will beef him up some more and help him fight off infections. (sorry if i mentioned that before, i skimmed though my previous posts and didn't see it so..)

It's hard to tell if the area around the back near his tail is more like a solid mass or if it's more fuzzy or what.. But that medication you have is better than nothing. Proper dosing and daily water changes can really help. 

The only reason I said it might not help with the fungus area is because that medication (from what i read) is for mouth fungus and not body fungus. They are both totally different types, not just because one is on the mouth and the other on the body, they are made from different things. A true fungus on the mouth, body, tail is white and fuzzy looking, like cotton. While "body fungus" or columnaris can have more of a gray color to it and sometimes can be a little stringy. It's not a real fungus but a bacterial infection. 

Maracyn Plus could probably work though i don't know for sure, but like i said, it's better than nothing and it will help treat his eyes atleast until we know for sure if it's going to help his body out.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Maracyn Plus is the strongest and is even known to work on dropsy. Erythromycin is good but Kanamyacin in the same family is better. Tetracycline is practically worthless anymore. Minocycline is a little better than tetracycline because there's less resistance to it.

Out of what you've got and considering what he looks like, I'd go for the Maracyn Plus.. it's strong so dose carefully. I would skip the AQ stage he looks really bad.. sorry 

Are you sure the ammonia levels are .1-.2 and not 1-2? Your tank is uncycled so read the fish in cycling carefully if you want to cycle it, but know tanks that size are really hard to keep an established biological filter.. in which case you'd need 100% weekly changes.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

callistra, I was telling the OP to use both the AQS and medication together. Many do it at the same time, including me and it has always worked out for the better. 

Thank you for more information on the actual medication, now I know.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Well he made it through the night. He is moving around okay but a bit slower. He looks more tired. The maracyn plus says to give a dose on day 1 3 and 5 so tonight I am going to do the 100% water change and not give him the meds. He may need a little break from all the antibiotics. I may do less AQS too and see if he perks up. He is a strong little guy. 

He has been having trouble seeing his food. I had to work with him a little bit when giving him his pellets. When I moved him into the hospital bowl I noticed he wasnt pooping that much so I changed his diet to frozen blood worms and only 1 pellet pre-soaked in tank water. He wasnt sure about them blood worms at first but now he slurps em up eagerly. I use tweezers so he doesnt have trouble seeing them. When I examined him today, the patches are not fuzzy. Just flat and scaly because of his scales. Like his scales are outlined in white.

Callistra, i tested the hospital water with my liquid ammonia test kit last night after i had just prepped it and it showed .5 ppm. I was telling cheese earlier that my tap water shows between .1 and .25 and after I put the stress coat in it increases to .5ppm. I dont understand why. I live on the coast and our water is hard. I just recently got some prime but havent tried it yet because so many people on here say stress coat is the thing to use. Gonna keep my eye on him and post if anything changes.

thanks guys for the guidance.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

I just read the following in the "GUIDE: Tank Cycling/Nitrogen Cycle" thread:

Since this process is fairly slow, it is still required on your part to do small water changes just so that there is a safe level of ammonia for the bacteria to eat, but not too much to be harmful to your fish. In my own personal opinion, *keeping the ammonia level at 0.5 (considered "stressful" under most bottles) is perfectly fine and fairly optimum for growing nitrosomonas.*

If that is the case, then my ammonia levels are ok. what do yall think?


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

i just read the beginner's guide to the freshwater aquarium cycle. Very helpful. Im going to take advantage of having my new hospital tank and try to do a fishless cycle on my original tank. Gonna use fish food to get the ammonia up to 2-3 ppm. There is one thing Im not clear on. It says the beneficial bacteria grows on all the surfaces so does that mean Im never supposed to scrub the decorations and walls of the tank? they get slimy. Also i have algae growing on the silk plants, yuck. How do i get rid of that and not harm the new beneficial bacteria?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

.25 is okay short term but .5 is pushing it.

If you have an ace hardware store you can get bottles of pure ammonia from them and an eye dropper from the pharmacy and dose that way and the tank never clouds up. I'm doing a 10 gallon for the first time with bottles of ammonia and I'm loving it.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Did my 100% water change just using salt and stress coat. He has perked up a little bit but other than that he's about the same.


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## Perry the platypus (Aug 20, 2012)

It sounds like she does have popeye. does the eye look like this?






The body part sounds like body rot. Is the patch silver?


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Well his eye is out like that and then it has like a little bubble along the bottom. He had it when i bought him. Thats why i tried the antibiotics but it has never changed in the 8 months I've had him. I think i've given him antiobiotics about 6 times now. Always a different kind. 

And for the patches, they are silvery white. He is silver so it looks whiter on him. What antibiotic do you suggest Perry? I have a box of E.M. Erythromycin, Super Ick Cure (malchite green and Nitrofurazone), Fungus Cure (victoria green b and Acriflavine), T.C. Tetracycline, and now trying Maracyn Plus (sulfamethazine and trimethoprim). The eye has never changed. When I gave him those first 4 before, I would follow the box directions for 1 or 2 rounds and then dump the entire tank, scrub with hot water and put in all new water with .5 to 1.0 ml of stress coat. I also tried adding 1/4 tsp of AQ salt a couple times. With the suggestions on this forum, I now see I wasnt being aggressive enough with the stress coat and salt. I hope that is what makes the difference with this round of antibiotics. 

His body rot started out after I got him and slowly progressed to what it is now. His eyes also slowly progressed with the cloudiness to the point now that cant see very well. When he started getting lethargic I knew i had to reach out for help and that is where i am. 

He is actually swimming around a bit now. =) Yesterday when i put him in his hospital tank for the first time with all the salt and stress coat and antibiotics, he pretty much just stayed on the bottom. Tonight I skipped the antibiotic per the instructions on the bottle. No real change with his eyes and patches though.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

For popeye epsom salt is what you want, not AQ. 1/4 tsp to 1 tsp per gallon, predissolved. It also needs to be 100% pure with no additives or dyes of any kind - read the ingredients list. CVS Pharmacy has some, but I'm sure there are other brands.

You should be seeing good results with the Maracyn Plus within the week..Not surprised you're seeing results in just one day. Adding Epsom salts at a lower dosage to help with the fluid build up behind the eye would be good too. The rest of the meds you own don't stand a chance against body rot like that. Erythromycin being a possible exception, but since he's already been dosed with it I wouldn't try it again. Do a 50% water change before the second dosage tomorrow. Then another 50% one before the last dosage, or if there is ammonia present you can do another 100% change before the last. Key is do at least a partial change in between dosages. You can repeat a second round/week if necessary.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Thank you callistra. I have some good kind of unrelated news. My original tank is finally starting to cycle! I have the least amount of ammonia ever and i have some nitrate. Yay! Once Flash (new name from my nephew b/c its a male not a female) is recovered, i think he will be much more comfortable.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Make sure you don't only feed bloodworms because they have little to no nutritional value which is why they are called a treat or "betta candy". It's like you only eating chocolate pretty much. If you can find frozen glassworms it would be best, brine shrimp is really good too but is also used as a laxative so if you think he at all is having any trouble pooing then that could be great.

I'm glad he still has a appetite, a Betta who is willing to eat is a good sign. I don't know if you are feeding him wherever in the tank but if you can get him to go to a certain corner every time to eat then it will be easier for him to find food, they can learn quite quickly. Eventually with some taps on the side of the glass and he should shoot for that area for some noms. I've had completely blind Bettas before and they learned fast where their food was.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Okay, cool, I will feed him in the same place from now on. My pet store is limited but i'll see if they have one of those other things. I have a container of Hikari freeze dried Brine Shrimp but stopped feeding them to him because its like a powder and they make such a mess in the tank. Are those ok or should i stick with frozen. A lot of people have said freeze dried is not good.

My baby is feeling better today without the antibiotics in the water. =( He blew bubbles last night. I dont want to make him feel bad but i got to get rid of that body rot. Think I should keep going with the antibiotics?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Freezedried isn't bad, but frozen is better nutrition wise.. Like fresh/frozen bananas or banana chips, that sorta thing. 

I would try keeping up with the medications. Maybe use less, if he was acting not so lively with it then i think using half the amount you were before should be okay. It may take longer for recovery that way but i think a slow and steady pace will help rather than trying to sprint to the finish.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Freeze dried is okay so long as you soak them before feeding. If you don't soak them they lead to constipation and eventually SBD.

I STRONGLY suggest you not choose to half medication dosage as on the bottle. You could bread a resistant strain. There's a reason the bottle says a certain amount. Use the dosage that the bottle says. The meds are stressful, so often times they won't be as active, but that doesn't mean they aren't working. With a condition as bad as that you really need to follow through. Also, you need to redose right along with the water change. Skipping doses or waiting extra days can also make the disease immune to the antibiotics. It's just like when the doctor tells you it's important to finish all your antibiotics and not stop when you start to feel better or not to miss doses. That's the kind of stuff that has made some of our older antibiotics like Tetracycline mostly useless... overuse and incorrect use.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

okay got some frozen brine shrimp from my pet store. And did the water change with a full dose of antibiotics. he seems okay right now. Hopefully he'll be the same in the morning. Thanks for all the good advice guys, i'll keep you updated on his status.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

did my 100% water change yesterday and did not add antibiotics per the directions. This morning he looks lethargic. He looks like he is trying to swim up the whole time and moving his whole body to push himself up. His patches have turned dark in the middle. I saw some white stringy stuff on his head. I also see some very tiny black spots in random places on his body. Is he being attacked by all fish diseases at once? I just added 1ml of maracyn plus to his water even though the bottle says to skip day 4. Im going to slowly increase the water temp too. why does it seem like fish get worse when you try to treat them? I have also changed his diet. The past 2 days i gave him frozen brine shrimp and he pooped last night. Thats the only good thing. Do you think the brine shrimp is adding diseases? I have a video of him here:

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/little_c22/?action=view&current=VIDEO0103.mp4


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## Virto (Nov 30, 2012)

It shouldn't hurt him if you don't skip days like the bottle says. Since it seems to be getting progressively worse, continuing treatment is your only real option.

I'm not sure exactly what your little fish might have run into, but it sure sounds nasty, and it does sound like it's getting worse.

About the only good news is that he's still eating. It can take several days before you may see any change from antibiotic use at all, so keep at it, and hopefully it's enough to head off whatever it is he's come down with. Keep the temp up around 80 and remember of course to add your antibiotic right after your water changes, so he has the longest possible period of exposure.

EDIT: 
It's hard to make out much detail in the video, but the popeye is pretty obvious. Unfortunately, popeye can have many different causes. I'm not sure if we're dealing with a bacteria, a fungus or a genetic disease at this point.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

It's hard to tell.. From what you wrote it sounds like he's getting worse. Some Bettas respond greatly to medications while others go the opposite way. Looking at your video he looks like he's swimming fine, at least for a fish in his condition. It's got to be hard to swim properly with the growths around the back of his body like that, but he's not just sitting still, he's not darting everywhere wildly and he's swimming around without too terribly much trouble. He's also eating and pooping, so those are pluses.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

So this afternoon he looks like he is feeling better. The behavior changes may be suddle but i can see them. Im going to give him the meds every day with ever water change. The directions on the bottle say skip days but it also doesnt say anything about water changes. He is still eating and he pooped today. He pooped the day before yesterday too and that is the most poops Ive seen him do in that amount of time. Before I saw maybe 1 large poo once a week so I think the brine shrimp was a good diet change.

On a side note, i went to my pet store today to look at live plants and snails for my original tank. It has quite a bit of algae. I'm amazed at how little the people there know about fish keeping. The girl working tonight told me that snails grow out of their shells and have to move into new ones. :question: She also said I should get 2 for a 2.5 gal tank. :question: I was worried about 1 and Im leaning more towards live plants. She said plants were annoying to her. So what do the real experts think. 1 plant? 2 plants? 1 mystery snail? I like the idea of another creature but I dont really want another mouth to feed. I might make it sick too!


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## Virto (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm big on live plants. Sounds like you ran into someone at the pet store that isn't, and also isn't very knowledgeable about much in the way of aquatic pets.

Anyway, I'd suggest an Amazon Sword or two, especially if you have a fluorescent light for your tank. I picked one up on clearance from PetSmart because all the tube plants were in sad shape and ready to be tossed. By the time I was done cutting it back, it only had three leaves, but it's been in the tank now for about 3 weeks and I'm counting 10 individual leaves.

There are plenty of good plant posts here, but you can also look at the plantedtank.com forums for more info.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

SuperNoob, for planted tank questions your best chance at getting good answers is to make a post in the section for planted tanks. I know snails have a huge bioload so getting more than one could be a problem. Marimo, amazon sword and anubias are great hardy plants that can stay alive with almost any lighting (from my experience). The fluorescent light bulbs will really help them grow like crazy. I had an anubias (three leaves when i got it) for about 4 months in a tank without a fluorescent bulb and it grew two leaves during that time. I placed it into a tank with the fluorescent bulb and it's now 12+ leaves within 2 months. My amazon sword i've had 2 months, it started with 4 leaves as well and now has 15. 

Anyway, a new thread in the plant section should get you all the answers you'll need since all the plant savvy people hang out there lol.


I'm glad your guy isn't backed up, live or frozen foods in general can really do wonders compared to flakes and pellets. It's like cereal vs fresh fruits and veggies. I hope he pulls though and recovers, it would be great to see him all healthy again.


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

That thread seems complicated too. Do you guys have soil tanks? I managed to kill all the algae in my tank by leaving the light off for a week. My little guy is still in his hospital tank. He looks about the same but I think his patches may be a little smoother and his eyes slightly clearer. This is going to be a long road to recovery. He has been acting fine though, eating, pooping, swimming, learning that brine shrimp fall to the bottom of the tank (eek, have to feed him less). Do you think i should ever switch antibiotics after using one for a long period of time? Like 2 weeks?


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## SuperNoob (Dec 7, 2012)

Ok so the medicine doesnt look like its helping anymore so im switching to Erythromycin. I figured out how much to use for a gallon by using syringes. I poured the whole pack into 1 syringe that was 3 ml. The pack was exactly 2 ml. So then I just divided it by 10. So i need .2 ml. i have a 1ml syringe that goes from .1 to 1.0 so i just filled it up to .2ml.


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## acadialover (Nov 17, 2011)

That is one tough little fishie you have there ! I've never heard of a fish receiving so much medication and still alive.... 
What do the experts think ? so many different meds. Why are you switching again ?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

acadialover, this is a rather old thread. I had forgotten how terrible this guy looked, I'm going to assume he didn't make it. Though I could be wrong, but.. eesh, he looked bad.


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