# EECTPK project



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Grandparents (P0 and my first pair ever):

Royal blue elephant ear HMPK male.










(Sorry, I know you can't actually see his form here, but it's cuuute)

Steel blue CT female. Looked CTPK, but she was from Petco so that's probably not likely. This was a younger photo, her body had thickened up some by the time I spawned them.










These guys spawned on 4/5/15 and again on 4/50/15. Only 7 fry survived to adulthood.

Parents (F1):

Same guy as my avatar, all grown up. Hoping that bump on his head was somehow caused by my newbie breeder mistakes and not genetic.










Female has some broken rays, again hopefully environmental.









F2 hatched 1/3 and looks something like this:










My largest spawn yet, probably 150-200 fry. I'm terrible at estimating counts but there at least 60 in this photo alone. Usually I prefer smaller spawns, but since my goal is somewhat ambitious, I'm happy to have the large selection.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies (Dec 21, 2014)

Nice fish! However it's not recommended to breed Petco fish, due tp the fact a lot of their lineage is unknown, and their form and colouring may not be the best for breeding. That's all.

It's unlikely those traits you have are environmental, most likely genetic unless they've suffered some kind of trauma or deficiency of some sort. It's hard to say. This is the issue with fish whoms lineage is unknown.

If your lucky, they may not show up again but it's hard to say.

Out of interest, what is your goal?  and good luck ^^ those fries look so cute hehe.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

My goal is EECTPK fry. It may take a few more generations before I get any with good form.

The other reason I think the topline may not be genetic is that pairing that same EEHMPK male with a different female produced smooth toplines. It's possible it's hidden in the female's background, but her topline was very smooth. It's fairly likely that those guys did experience trauma and/or deficiencies as fry, as like I said, I had seven survivors out of two normal-sized batches of fry.

I know it's best to start with better fish. The P0 was my very first experimental spawn, but I liked the fry so i decided to continue this line.


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

You seem to be on the right path to EECTPK. This spawn should get you full EE bettas and you can select the more CT looking ones. Being that many fry, selecting against bumpy toplines should not be a problem.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Has anyone ever seen an EE crowntail before? I'm wondering whether the crowntail trait will affect the pectorals.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

I have no idea but definitely interested to watch the results of all this


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> Has anyone ever seen an EE crowntail before? I'm wondering whether the crowntail trait will affect the pectorals.


It seems that not. Look here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=122402&page=0#post1346196


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies (Dec 21, 2014)

Oh right! *face palm* the title. CTs aren't really my area. It sounds like however that trait could be hidden in that females background but the male sounds clear. 

I'll be following, it sounds an interesting goal and spawns. Good luck ^^


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

OMG so jealous! Not a fan of EE but I have been wanting to do a CTPK spawn! I have a pretty good CT female and a lot of nice males, but the female is ( of course) a long fin CT  I would be very interested in purchasing a female CTPK from this spawn once ready!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

dcg said:


> It seems that not. Look here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=122402&page=0#post1346196


Oh wow, that's so cute! Really funny combo of big tough spikes and giant floppy "ears". I wonder why no one seems to be breeding them?


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I've seen some on Aquabid here and there, I almost convinced myself on buying one. The end results will be surely stunning!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm hopeful, but also kind of afraid that I'll end with something totally random and unexpected, haha.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Their home:










They are kind of small for their age because I just moved them from a much smaller container. Hoping they hit a growth spurt soon! They are eating mostly grindal worms with some BBS.


----------



## BeautifulBettaFishies (Dec 21, 2014)

Love all the plants. I think having live plants for them is really important and beneficial. The plants will create infusoria (if I remember correctly). And they are helpful for keeping water quality maintained.

Hopefully they grow nice and big soon ^^


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> They are kind of small for their age


When did they hatch? Or what age are they in that picture?


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

5 weeks in that photo. Wayyyy slower growth than yours, but not too far behind going by this growth chart. Sure you're not dosing your fish with growth hormone? 

I did find and remedy some water parameter issues today that may have been affecting their growth.


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

I do, fresh water and lots of food, the best hormone of them all.  Anyway, saying that you just moved them form a _much _smaller container, fry being on the small side can be understood. Let's see them spreading wings from now on.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yeah, I artificially hatched them so they were in a half gallon container, floating in my 10g. Should have released them much sooner, but I had another spawn in there and didn't have anywhere to move them until I sold some other fish. I've also upped my feedings as I don't think I've been stuffing them quite enough.


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

Yes, just keep their bellies nice 'n round and everything will be fine.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Thinkin' fish thoughts.










Adequately fed.


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

Yes, they are day-dreaming.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

We like worms.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

what a fantastic photo  you can see them diving after the food!!


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Where did you get your grindal worms from? I have order some online from The Worm guy I think it's called.... It's been a week and I have not even gotten an email. I emailed them again today and they have already took the money out of my account. I now see a few other website to order the cutler so when I cash my check I will order from another place. I'll never order from the worm gym again!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Sent you a PM.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

InStitches said:


> what a fantastic photo  you can see them diving after the food!!


Sometimes they get a little _too_ excited and you can see half a worm hanging out a gill. Looks super uncomfortable but it doesn't seem to hurt them.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

can I post the photo in my blog? I would credit it in any way you'd like, such as your username and linking back... I like to keep all the photos I like on the blog like a little journal haha. if not no worries


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Of course!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Colorful kids.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Just an angry, fat balloon.


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Wow looking nice!! I will be wanting one when they are ready!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks! I need to do more water changes, I think yours are bigger than mine now. All of my spawns have been pretty slow growers, I wonder if it's my very soft water?


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes can we help you?










Metallic kid with shiny pecs.










With a runt.


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I'll take that last one!!!! mine mine mine all mine!!!! hehe
I have been feeding the crap out of mine lol and doing at least 50% WC daily, they are pretty big now! Some are still smaller


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Ohh, cool ctpk!!! And ee!! I am on course of doing ctpk too, hardy path and long wait lol, but i am doing a solid red ctpk


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I want to do one soooo bad!!! I'm trying to get a DTPK X PK line first I think though so I can have some nice dorsals, then add a CT to that line and have my little CTPKs  maybe even a few Double crown tail Plakats!!! That would be my long term goal  but really have no clue how to get them started lol


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

What an awesome project! eectpk would look amazing
Love the shiny little fatties youve got there :-D So cute


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Ok I need someone to explain betta genetics to me again. How is it possible that I'm getting metallic fish in this spawn? There was the blue guy above, and I'm pretty sure I spotted a couple of coppers tonight. Neither of the parents appeared to be metallic carriers. Grandpa was a heterozygous metallic royal blue, grandma was just a regular steel blue, at least as far as I can tell. Does that mean both the parents are metallic carriers that somehow just don't express the phenotype?


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

OMG OMG OMG OMG Did one of those in the above pictures have a Nemo fin???

*gasps* *grabby hands* Mine! Mine! Mine!

Darn it, nope. If you do find one though.. Don't cull. Me wants.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Haha sorry, only symmetrical fish so far.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

2 months and 1 week old, and starting to be very mean to each other. Fins still intact though, they go straight for the bodies.

I like the black edging on these two.













































Wheeee









One of the littler guys.


















Uh oh, they're learning to spell...









Masked royal blue.









Copper?



























Silvery steel.









White?









This whole photo is pretty great.









Dude, what are you doing?








(In case you can't tell, I scooped a few of them into a hang-on box in the tank for easier picture taking. This guy has smashed himself against the bottom of it.)

So far it seems like a lot of the smaller ones have better web reduction, or maybe it just looks that way in comparison to their teeny bodies. I haven't culled anyone yet, except for the poor guy I crushed last night during my water change...oops...


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Wow that royal blue little guy is so cute!! They are looking great!!!


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

In that one of the three beside the net, the top.. Left one has his little mouth open.  looking good!


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i like the steel blue at the right side of the pic with net,looks neat


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh is that a steel? I thought it was a metallic royal blue, or possibly a turquoise. All the blues start to get really confusing once metallic is involved.

I think I figured out the copper thing though, they are just black-based steels, not actual coppers (which would make no sense genetically).


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Well i am a newbie lol, what do i know, do not listen to me, i am just back to betta's world for 3 months+, so big chance i always get it wrong


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)




----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

I... see... EEs! *cheers* Spikey tails too.


----------



## BettaBoy11 (Apr 21, 2015)

Coming in late, but EECTPK? Is that possible. A metallic blue (like a dragon scale) EECTPK is my dream fish!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Anything is possible!

I would have better photos but I seem to have broken my camera's transfer cable. Three fish are jarred now, one for being mean and the other two for promising web reduction. Seems to be a bit of web reduction on the pectorals too, but who knows if it will stay that way.

I still haven't culled anyone. Can't quite bring myself to do it, since no one is deformed. Lots of runts though.


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

dcg said:


> You seem to be on the right path to EECTPK. This spawn should get you full EE bettas and you can select the more CT looking ones.


Let me tell you "I told you so".  The bulk of you project is done. Form now on you will just strive for perfecting it.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Kitten, sell them to a LFS. Tell them they're "minis".


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Haha, maybe. Perfect for people who want to keep a fish in a half gallon bowl.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Spiky tails, spiky pecs.









Oh hi.









Jarred fish number one. Nice spikes plus EE, though his anal fin is a bit long. Also has some funny scales. Grandpa might've been a rosetail.


















Jarred fish two. Not EE, but nice fins.









Jarred fish three. His fins are nothing special, he's just jarred for being mean. Nice color though.


----------



## Olivia27 (Nov 26, 2015)

OMG you did it! That first boy (steel or royal? Steel?) is the first ever EECTPK I've seen <3 May as well be the first for many, many others


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

He is a nice dark steel. Technically the pectorals have to be about twice that size before I can really call him an EE, but I think he'll get there.

I probably won't use him for breeding unless all the other EE males have terrible web reduction. Wouldn't want to pass on the misaligned scales.


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Wow,.looking good, i am so jealous lol, good colours


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> Oh hi.


Photo no. 2... be careful, you have some kind of blue snake in fry's tank.


----------



## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

OMG!!! I cant even!!! I NEED one when ready!!! Do you have a waiting list?


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Nope. I think I'll try to sell some of the culls first, like the ones who are obviously not going to have good web reduction, if anyone is interested. I'll be holding on to the nice ones for a while since EE pectorals take a long time to grow out.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

...Do you think maybe they want something?


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

I know exactly what they want and you do also.  Now don't fool them so they can stay at the photo session and give them that thing. ))


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

This one....


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Haha he is so disgruntled.

They are moving to my new 40 gallon as soon as my stand arrives and will finally have room to stretch out.


----------



## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

kittenfish said:


> Oh hi.


Love this shot.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Yassss. Saved as 'BlueSnake.img'


----------



## BettaBoy11 (Apr 21, 2015)

The only kind of snake I like: the betta snake!


----------



## Rennie Sky (Feb 27, 2016)

Oh, awesome! Just read all the way through. I'm a blue gal and love EE's and CT's. How exciting you've already got some EE's with web reduction. I may well be a future buyer.


----------



## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Subbing. They're looking good so far.


----------



## Isabella15 (Feb 23, 2015)

I'm excited to see them fully grown


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

I have some that are ready to sell as soon as I get around to taking photos. It's tricky labeling them though since the pectorals still have lots of growing to do; I can't be entirely sure which ones are full EE and which are just half. Also still difficult to judge web reduction. Some days they have a ray growth spurt and look really nice, other days the webbing is catching up. I'll have to hold on to several as potential breeders for at least a couple more months.


----------



## Rennie Sky (Feb 27, 2016)

Still some interest here. My 20 community is cycling. When it gets to that point for you I could give you some ideas on what I like, if I haven't fallen in love locally. I don't need a show/breeding quality fish. Just something with colors and fin type I like. Which are actually, color wise, often not particularly desirable, LOL! I like a red wash on my blue.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Ooohhh. Hehe. Pretty!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Favorite male so far:




























And a nice mermaid-colored female(?):


----------



## Witchipoo (Dec 13, 2015)

They're looking great!
I love the lite mermaid. 
So do EE CT get web reduction on thier pectorals too?


----------



## ashleynicol3 (Feb 23, 2016)

That male is stunning and I love the mermaid!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Witchipoo said:


> They're looking great!
> I love the lite mermaid.
> So do EE CT get web reduction on thier pectorals too?


So far it looks like they do, but maybe it will fill in as they get older. None of them have full EE-sized pecs yet.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm dying. Someone help me!


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

stunning result kitten!! make me can't wait to start more CTPK lines argh..


----------

