# Lethargic and Not Eating- (Staying at top of tank)



## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

Hello fish friends. I am in need of some assistance. I was apart of another fish forum community but they were unsure what to do and I need a bit more advice. I bought a new betta fish about 2.5 weeks ago. Originally I had him in a 2.5 gallon tank that was not filtered or heated for two days. I almost immediately after bought him a 5 gallon filter tank and a heater. He was loving it and making a bubble nest but I noticed a faint weird smell and assumed I could just clean the tank. I now know moving forward to never EVER do 100% water changes on any fish aquarium. The day that I cleaned the tank he only ate one pellet of food which is slightly unusual. I cleaned the tank on Sunday (today is Tuesday) and he has not eaten anything since then. I've tried every treat and food type that I have for him but he's not interested. He sits on the top of the tank in the back corner- the opposite side from the filter. He had no problem with the filter strength previously but I am sure he's weak from not eating which could maybe explain why he is swimming around less. My other forum told me to do 20% water changes and do testings each morning since I need to prepare to do a fish-in-cycle. I've tested the water for two days in a row and here are my results (the same both days): 

*Housing:*
How many gallons is your tank? 5 gallons 
Does it have a filter? Yes 
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? varies from 77-78.7 degrees F 
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No 

*Food:*
What food brand do you use? Aqueon pellets that I soak before, or Betta-dial-a-treats (dried blood worms, dried mysis, and dried daphnia)
--> I did go to the petstore today and bought frozen brine shrimp and flakes for fresh water fish- he was uninterested so I removed them all. 
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Yes, usually pellets. I only tried one flake today but he didn't want it 
Freeze-dried? I tried brine shrimp today and he didn't want it 
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? I feed him once a day in the mornings - I leave 3-4 pellets in his tank and remove the extra he didn't eat. 

*Maintenance:
Before* your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? I only preformed one 30% water change 
What percentage of water did you change? 30 % 
What is the source of your water? filtered water that I drink at home (not from the sink) 
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? neither - but I just fully cleaned it two days ago 
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? I was using fluval betta conditioner. Since I changed the water (2 days ago) I added a small amount of Stress zyme, less than a tablespoon of aquarium salt, and today I added betta fix after doing a 10% water change. 

*Water Parameters:*
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 ppm 
Nitrite: 0ppm 
Nitrate: 0 ppm 
pH: 7.4 
Hardness (GH): unsure 
Alkalinity (KH): unsure 

*Symptoms and Treatment:*
When did you first notice the symptoms? He had a small flakey like bump by his gill when I first moved him into the 5 gallon tank but he has mainly been weird since the water change 
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? There is a hole in one of his big tail fins and a tear in one of his front fins. He also keeps his very top fin on his head kind of clamped when he is floating by the top of the tank (which is often now) 
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Yes 
Is your Betta still eating? No 
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? I stated with Betta Fix today and added 2 drops of Seachem Prime to help with fish-in-cycle 
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? He was not ill before at all 
How long have you owned your Betta? less than a month 
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? I don't think so








( you can see the fin is clearly teared. I did notice a tear on Sunday there but it has gotten a little bit bigger. I wonder if he is stressed and eating his fins?)








(this is where he hangs outmost of the day and barely moves)


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

For reference this is his entire tank (photo taken Sunday when I did the full water change)


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## littladybug (Sep 7, 2020)

When I do full water changes, my fish often get like this as well. My female betta wouldn’t come out from her favorite cave for around 3 days after I did a full change. I’m not super experienced to bettas but it sounds like stress to me. Don’t try to make him eat, he likely won’t. Give him time, keep his environment calm and quiet.


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## littladybug (Sep 7, 2020)

Also you could try indian almond leaves for the tear in his fins, it will also calm him. Worked wonders for my male after fin biting


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

littladybug said:


> Also you could try indian almond leaves for the tear in his fins, it will also calm him. Worked wonders for my male after fin biting


I actually did add one Almond leaf in this afternoon! I guess I will try to lessen the amount of times I try to feed him and just give him time to readjust. 

I bought a small piece of Mopani Drift wood, I'm wondering if I should add this in as well to help produce more tannins.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is there a reason you do not use your tank water? Do you know if your filtered water has any minerals or trace elements in it or is it the same as distilled?

In the meantime, here is the Forum's fish-in tutorial. I would start ASAP.








CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial


Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.50ppm (alternately, 25% at 0.25ppm), or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled. That’s all you have to do. You can stop reading now. But there’s a lot of...




www.bettafish.com


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## littladybug (Sep 7, 2020)

I’m not sure abt. the tannis in the mopani, like russel said I would focus on evening out the water before adding anything.


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## littladybug (Sep 7, 2020)

Also, gorgeous fish and such a pretty tank.


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Is there a reason you do not use your tank water? Do you know if your filtered water has any minerals or trace elements in it or is it the same as distilled?
> 
> In the meantime, here is the Forum's fish-in tutorial. I would start ASAP.
> 
> ...


I just figured that the filtered water would be safer than the water coming out of the kitchen sink but I could be wrong. How can I find out if there are any minerals or trace elements in the water I am using? 

Thank you for the link about fish-in-cycling. I have been on top of it for the past few days but since he's not eating the ammonia levels are at 0 ppm everyday- which is why I am only doing 10-20% water change instead of 50%.


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

littladybug said:


> I’m not sure abt. the tannis in the mopani, like russel said I would focus on evening out the water before adding anything.


Yes I would agree- I will wait to add it in. Hopefully he will start to perk up soon. Today is going on day three of him not eating and being lethargic


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The only way you would know about minerals, etc., would be with to test fresh water with a TDS meter.








Digital Ph Meter TDS Tester Aquarium Pool Hydroponic Water Monitor 0-9999 PPM | eBay


From 1,000 to 9,900 ppm, the resolution is 10 ppm. TDS Features Accuracy: ±0.1 pH (at 20°C/68°F), ±0.2 pH. Resolution: 0.1 pH. In the water, hold the temp key for 3 seconds, release the hand when the screen font flashes.



www.ebay.com





You could start using 75% filtered and 25% tap water during water changes. You want to switch gradually. However, if the filtered water has TDS you can continue using it if you choose.

Will the filter and heater fit the 2.5? If so, I would put him back in there. It could be he is stressed by a larger tank. That happens. Or, it could be the 5.5 doesn't have enough plants. Most fish (other than saltwater) are not really good in open tanks. One theory is they feel too open to predators. That's the real purpose of "hides." 

Are they any ornaments in the five that weren't in the 2.5? Have you checked them individually for an odor? And am I reading it correctly that this lovely boy was fine in the 2.5 and fine in the five for a few days?

If you can, purchase frozen (not freeze dried) and offer to him one at a time. Bloodworms or "Mini" Bloodworms are good. It's like with my dogs: If they are off their regular dog food but will eat a hot dog or cheese I'm not quite as worried. This is one way I judge both my dogs' and my fish's health.


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> The only way you would know about minerals, etc., would be with to test fresh water with a TDS meter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will see if I can get ahold of one of those test kits for the minerals. The filter came with the tank so I'm not sure how to remove it. The 2.5 tank will be pretty crowded if I put the heater and filter in there. You are correct though- Houdini was very happy in his 2.5 tank and was even more happy in the 5.5 gallon originally. He had a huge bubble nest going in the 5.5 gallon and was eating totalIy fine. I really think the 100% water change messed him up. I noticed he was swimming a little more last night but he's definitely stressed- every time his body touches a plant he jumps so I know this is a sign of stress. I tried to feed him again this morning but he was not interested. 

There are two additional plants in the 5.5 I added (plus one plant from the 2.5 I moved over).I also added a little fake rock structure (plus one random rock) that has an opening he used to love to swim through. I saw him swim through it last night but because he hasn't eaten I think he is weak and the filter is pushing him around. Before I did the water change the filter strength seemed totally fine. There are also 3 moss balls and an almond leaf I added in a day ago. 

I will see if another petstore sells frozen bloodworms- the one by me did not. I've tried so many different foods though - the fresh water filter flakes, Aqueon betta pellets, dried bloodworms, dried mysis, dried daphnia, and frozen brine shrimp. He was eating the pellets before and the dried treats but now he doesn't want anything. He's still floating a lot at the top of the tank but occasionally is swimming around more. Today will be day 4 of weird behavior and no eating. I'm quite sad about this  I'm trying everything I can to ease his stress.


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

Alright now I'm actually getting super concerned. I'm watching him while I sit in my online class and he's darting around and then floating around upside and on his side. He darts around and is swimming a little bit upside down and then just floats- either just floats randomly in the tank or floats and goes to the bottom. Sometimes he goes to the bottom and with his face facing down and tail up- just floating. What is going on with him?? I'm getting more worried. After those weird movements he went to the bottom on his side and has not moved at all. I'm really worried that he is dying/ dead.


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## HOUDINItheBETTA (Sep 8, 2020)

My ultimate conclusion is that he is dead. I am so heartbroken but after his darting episode he's been on the bottom of the tank since (30 minutes total) and he has not moved. I have no idea what caused his death because he was swimmy yesterday. Yes he was stressed but he had no other signs of infection or illness. 

Moving forward I am going to cycle my tank correctly before considering getting another fish for the tank. I thought I could save him but maybe he was sick before I did the water change  He was from Petco- maybe that was my mistake.


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## littladybug (Sep 7, 2020)

Oh no! I’m so sorry  It wasn’t your fault. Sometimes bettas just get really stressed and shut down. You clearly loved him.


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