# What did goldfish come from?



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

What fish were the domestic household goldfish created from? Pictures would be great...


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Goldfish were domesticated around a 1000 years ago in China. Their placement in the taxonomy of the carps from that region is still under debate. At one time _Carassius auratus_ was thought to have two subspecies: _C. a. auratus_ (the domestic goldfish) and _C. a. gibelio_ (Prussian carp). But in my recent search of fishbase.org it appears the two have been split into separate species. Carassius auratus auratus, Goldfish and Carassius gibelio, Prussian carp This makes the Prussian Carp the closest wild relative to the goldfish (much as wolves are to domesticated dogs). 

Wikipedia also has a rather nice article complete with ample citations on the domestication of goldfish: Gold fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> Goldfish were domesticated around a 1000 years ago in China. Their placement in the taxonomy of the carps from that region is still under debate. At one time _Carassius auratus_ was thought to have two subspecies: _C. a. auratus_ (the domestic goldfish) and _C. a. gibelio_ (Prussian carp). But in my recent search of fishbase.org it appears the two have been split into separate species. Carassius auratus auratus, Goldfish and Carassius gibelio, Prussian carp This makes the Prussian Carp the closest wild relative to the goldfish (much as wolves are to domesticated dogs).
> 
> Wikipedia also has a rather nice article complete with ample citations on the domestication of goldfish: Gold fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Oh okay. Yeah I was basically asking:
Dog is to wolf as goldfish is to ______

BTW thanks for helping me out so much today! :-D


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Yep. That's a great way of putting it. Prussian carp are actually kinda ugly like many other carp species. Wild koi are rather unattractive, too. 

You're welcome! Goldfish are some of my favorite fish, and I love spreading proper goldfish care! They are very rewarding if given the right care.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> Yep. That's a great way of putting it. Prussian carp are actually kinda ugly like many other carp species. Wild koi are rather unattractive, too.
> 
> You're welcome! Goldfish are some of my favorite fish, and I love spreading proper goldfish care! They are very rewarding if given the right care.


Yeah! I would like to keep goldfish someday when I can afford a 55gal tank....

Now....dog is to wolf as betta is to _______ (link to picture or just picture??)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd actually go larger than a 55 gal. My biggest regret is not starting off with a 75 gal and a canister filter. They are quieter and more efficient than HOB filters. Plus a larger tank means more goldies. :-D

Wild Betta splendens? I can't help you there. I haven't done the research into it; I just know that they are pretty far removed from their wild ancestors. I think there is a user here who keeps wild bettas, and she'll know more about it than me.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Oh okay. I will post that question as a new thread in the betta chat . And I will wait till I can afford a 75 gal and canister filter before i think about adopting some goldfish .


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

It's well worth the investment. They typically live 10-15 years with the right care. I think the oldest on record is something like 25 years old.


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## fishy goings on (Mar 31, 2012)

Dog is to wolf as betta spledens is to betta splendens.

Grey wolves have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years and goldfish for 1 or 2 thousand....perhaps even enough time to speciate, but interbreeding still happens...."mules" are usually created, but not always!!

However it's only been 150-200 years that betta splendens have been domesticated and "speciation" (the divergence into a new species) most likely has not happened.


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## fishy goings on (Mar 31, 2012)

*Life of a goldfish.*



thekoimaiden said:


> It's well worth the investment. They typically live 10-15 years with the right care. I think the oldest on record is something like 25 years old.


The longest lived goldfish is actually 48-49 years and still flapping!!

25-30 is average for a well cared for fish.

Will see if I can find a link/paper to back-up my claim, but I know it to be true.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I would actually like to see that link because I have a source that says 41 max reported age. Fishbase.org. As for the average age, it depends. Genetics also play a large role in growth and survival. There are well cared for goldfish that have only lived 10 years or even less. 25 is rather old for a goldfish, even a well-cared for one. Exact numbers are hard to pin down due to all the misinformation about goldfish floating around. The safest estimate I can come up with be between 10-20 years and even that is a large range.


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## fishy goings on (Mar 31, 2012)

I will seek it out for you....I read it some time ago, but it really blew me away, so it stuck in my head.

In fact I read it so long ago that (if it's true) it would have had it's 50th b'day by now!!

btw great info...I agree it's all genetics and even a well cared for fish might only make it to 10 years.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

:lol: For all we know, we could be talking about the same fish! My references says it's from 1993. That would make the fish in it's late 50's now (if it's still alive).


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Also, species like comets are always going to live longer than the fancies.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh ya. Forgot to mention that. I'm terrible. I often completely forget about single-tails when talking about goldfish. To me aquarium = fancy goldfish and pond = koi. I kinda tend to forget about the single tails, and how they have a better potential to live in either ponds or large aquariums. They are also probably some of the longest-lived goldfish. When I google "oldest goldfish" single tails are the only thing that come up. Along with a picture of a orange koi 0.o I thought the differences between the two carps were rather obvious.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah...the barbels kind of give it away.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

fishy goings on said:


> Dog is to wolf as betta spledens is to betta splendens.
> 
> Grey wolves have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years and goldfish for 1 or 2 thousand....perhaps even enough time to speciate, but interbreeding still happens...."mules" are usually created, but not always!!
> 
> However it's only been 150-200 years that betta splendens have been domesticated and "speciation" (the divergence into a new species) most likely has not happened.


I know. I just wanted a picture.


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## ladayen (Jun 21, 2011)

Well I found this one... died at 43 in 1999 BBC News | UK | Oldest goldfish has his chips

As to still living, as of nov 30 2011, a pair of them Are these Britain's oldest goldfish? | The Sun |Features


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