# Floaty butt?



## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

lol Sorry about the title, but my little female seems to have problems staying down, her tail end floats up, shes obviously not feeling well, she isnt zooming all over and shes a little clampy. She isnt eating off my finger like she usually does, but she is eating still, just with half as much enthusiasm =/ Shes got a little bump on her tail area but im not sure if thats normal or not. Ive included a video so you can get a better idea of whats going on hopefully. Shes just not acting like her normal hyper self.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1 gallon -1.5 gallon?
What temperature is your tank? 78-82
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? No need yet, tank water stays in the upper 70's and low 80's in the day/night here in Florida with no ac in the room her tank is in.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Live mosquito larvae for breakfast and one Aqueon betta pellet before bed
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 times a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Daily
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100% everyday or at least 80% while syphoning poop if i miss a 100% day which is rare
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Tetra Aquasafe

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0.02 ppm
Nitrite:havent tested
Nitrate: havent tested
pH: 7.0
Hardness:havent tested
Alkalinity: havent tested
(I use bottled spring water 75% and tap 25% because my tap is orangy iron water so i dont trust it much, I let it all sit overnight treating though)

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? clamped tail a bit more often. A bump on her body before the tail fin starts, not sure if thats normal though... She arches her back to take in air more then im used to seeing, my male goes like this \ angle when getting air, she stays mostely horizontal and arches her back to put her head up. I sometimes wonder if her back is a bit eformed but im still a bit new to this, maybe my males just different cause hes a male.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not so hyper swimming circles, not jumping for food, not chasing live foods as enthusiastically, sometimes just freezes and floats as if sleeping in mid swim then her butt pulls her to the top
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Today
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Nothing, just the daily water change and added a very small amount of oak tree tannins, well a few drops more then usual. She doesnt eat many pellets, im not sure if live mosquito larvae or live bloodworms could cause this. 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? No idea but id say 6 months or so? Shes from petsmart and was a bit small.
Video uploading now...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKK8DdhY-s8


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

How much mosquito larvae does she get in the morning? She looks a little bloated in the video. 

Question: Do her scales stick out from her body so she looks like a pineapple?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

She usually gets about half as much as my boy, i dont keep a good count but on average its around 9-10 if they are very small and 4-5 if they are bigger larvae. I try to average it out to the size of her eye with my net. Today i only gave her 3 small larvae and she chased them down but not as eagerly. She seems tired =/ Yesterday was her fasting day. Im not sure that shes bloated or filling with eggs, everyday the yellow insides get alittle larger and todays water change had a few whitish yellow little dots at the bottom so i thought maybe she was releasing eggs. Heres a picture of her right now for comparison to the video just in case it was the lighting..








Sorry its alittle big and dark, but shes still floating and a bit dazed not really getting excited to see me like she usually does and her back end still slowely gravitates upwards when she goes down. No pineconing so far.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I've never kept females so I don't know if she could be filling with eggs or not. Would she release them even if there was no male around? But I'm not sure why her butt would float up. My guy's backside sometimes floats up too when he pauses to look at something but it doesn't seem to be a problem for him. I wonder if she has a swimbladder issue?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Im pretty new to females, i took her in from my sister but i posted about eggs a few days ago and some said their girls swell around once a month and then either re-absorb eggs or release them. Maybe shes eating them on top of the live foods i feed her because after fasting for a day she shouldnt be bigger. I had accedentally sat her cup near my male during a water change for only about a minute and since then hes been bubblenest king and shes slowely got alittle more plump, but i guess shed do that regardless. Maybe eating her own eggs + live foods + eggy belly is pushing on something and making her tail end float. But shes still a bit lethargic, usually shes bolting everywhere and jumping out of the water when i come up. Now just floating and swimming alittle to look at me =/
Maybe i should fast her another day or two even though she just had her weekly fast. If she is eating her eggs. Im just not sure cause some of the eggy females ive seen look HUGE and shes not like that and never has been.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's really possible she's eating her own eggs - fish in a lot of other species do that, like tetras and some cichlids and catfish. So it sounds like a female fish is a lot like a human female with the monthly cycle thing (I know I definitely feel bloated once a month). If you saw little yellow things in the tank, it seems likely that she's releasing her eggs and then eating them later because there's no male putting them in the bubblenest. (The females release the eggs and the male swims down, picks them up in his mouth and puts them in the bubblenest)

She might not be huge like some of the other females, but every betta's different . . . maybe she's just on the more dainty side? 

At any rate, I definitely think you should fast her for another day, or even longer if that's what it takes for her to shrink down to her normal size. She's probably not very active because it must take a lot of energy to keep her butt from floating. 

Have you asked any of the other female owners if their bettas' butts float when they're full of eggs?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

No i just posted this up here and am still hoping for more input, hopefully from some female betta owners as well, but the theory of her eatting eggs does make since, I just expected her to be huge if it was a problem ) then again her tail floats up slowely and she never tips sideways so if it is swim bladder its not a bad case as of yet. I just miss her darting all over the place all day long. I covered her tank and will fast her a couple of days. Shes very small in my eyes, but im used to my male. Thank you Sakura for your input, its helped keep me from worrying too much. 

Any other female betta owners with this problem in the past or anyone with ideas feel free to jump in also, im worried about her


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're welcome Punki. I know, our bettas are like family so it's natural to worry when something seems out of whack. I hope she's back to her perky self very soon.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks 
Just uncovered her andstill looking the same, sitting at the top of the tank and lethargic, when swimming down her butt still slowely floats her back up. Still no major bloating but she looks alittle plump, about the same as yesterday, nothing huge. Going to fast her today for sure just in case. Still not 100% sure what this could be.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

After looking more, Shes more lethargic today actually, i dont know if shed even eat if i offered. Just floating along the surface, not sideways or anything but still. Im worried, i dunno what could be wrong, i always monitor her water because im paranoid of the containers size and her and my male get the same water/conditioner/food and its mostely spring water, always the same brand, he gets more food then her and hes older and fine. I have aquarium salt and epsom salt and oak leaf tannins, all ive added is the tannins as i have no idea whats wrong, i dont want to see her floating like this  Her eyes and face seem a bit dull >.<


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Does it look like there may be any more eggs in the tank? If this is a swimbladder problem, it's not like any I've ever heard of. Hmm. But like I said earlier, my guy's butt sometimes floats up when he stops to look at something. Maybe it's a betta thing?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Does she have stress bars or anything? Hmmm. You can try adding something like Stress Coat and see if that helps. Do you think she's depressed because she can't see your male?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I just looked with a flashlight, which usually makes her swim off fast but she just slowely swam out of the way, no eggs, no markings, shes light colored so i cant see stress stripes even if she had them, no pineconing, ammonia levels are just starting to appear but she gets her daily water change in a bit so its on time. Her tail is clamped 75% of the time and unclamps when she wants to move but mostly it just floats clamped. Her poop when i changed her water yesterday was normal. I acclimate her every day. I just dont know =/
I wouldnt think she would rmeember him, she only seen him for one minute and its been 5-6 days since, only yesterday did she stop being so active and there was no reason for it as far as i could see. This mystery is frustrating, i wish she had something obvious going on so i could treat it. I dont have any stresscoat on me, just water conditioner, and salts and tannins.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Did she always dart around a lot or was it something she had just started doing right before she got lethargic? And what kind of water conditioner do you use?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

After googling, I think it's possible your betta is "eggbound." I guess when fish get into egglaying mode but they don't spawn, they either drop the eggs or reabsorb them. If they don't do either, they get "eggbound." One thing you might try is to move her back within sight of your male or even put her in the tank with a divider. The idea is to stimulate her into dropping her eggs.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I use tetra aquasafe. Ive only had her about ten days, the first few days she glided oer her newfound space and hid when i came near, after 3 days she started doing circles through her tank all day, and around the 5th day she tried to jump out when i went to feed her so i figured she was getting comfortable with me. Day 6-8 i would laugh because even if i wasnt AT her tank i could view it and see her doing laps, stopping for air then doing laps again. She was alittle spazzy but i figured its her nature since she has shorter fins then my male, she can move fast and have fun and not get dragged down. I took a few pics of her the day before she became ill, not sure if they make a difference.

















I just tried to take picture but that propmpted her to sapzz and swim against her glass in the opposite direction so no today pics yet but nothing visible i dont think.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Ill sit her tank near his if it will help her, i just dont want to further stress her.Ill put her there now and we'll see how it goes.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I dont think she is eggbound. How much are you feeding her? She may be bloated or have something wrong with her swim bladder. I would stop feeding her for a few days and raise the temp a few degrees. swim bladder disorder would fit although she could just be constipated hence stop feeding her for a few days.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

She usually get 4-8 mosquito larvae a day depending on their size i try to measure it to her eye, and before bed if she doesnt look full ill give her one aqueon betta food pellet, they are very small pellets. On her fasting day she was playful but the morning after the fasting day she was lethargic, i offered her 3 larvae once lethargic and she chased them and ate them, but with far less enthusiasm. The last time shes eatten was then because i stopped giving her food just in case so its been about 24 hours. In the last three days shes only had 3 larvae. Im not really sure if the food would have triggered it, i thought live foods were far less likely and it hit right after fasting day. Im still fasting but she isnt begging either so i dunno. She poops a bit but its been 3 days so theres less since shes been fed only 3 larvae out of these three days. Im going to change her water and check for poops soon.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Can you see a white spot on her stomach? This is called the ovipositor and is a definite sign she's carrying eggs.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Yes, it sticks out alittle more then in the picture. I think i have a picture of it...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I dunno, I really think she's eggbound because she saw your male for a moment and that can stimulate the egglaying process. The timing seems right, since it's been several days since she saw him - by now she should have reabsorbed or dropped her eggs. But even if she's just constipated, the treatment would be more or less the same: fasting and a warmer temperature of her water. If she's eggbound, hopefully seeing your male will stimulate her into dropping the eggs she's got holed up in her. This also explains why only her butt floats up, 'cause her front's full of eggs. 

Creat, still there? What do you think?

She's gorgeous, beautiful coloring.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I had a young female who had "floaty butt". 

She was a bit constipated and consquently exhibited what looked like swim bladder disorder.

I gave her epsom salt baths, as follows:

I made a solution of 1 tablespoon epsom salt to one gallon of conditioned, warm water. Once all the salt was dissolved and the solution mixed, I poured some of the solution into a container and floated the container in the main tank.

When the temperature in the container was equalized, I put in the betta for 20 minutes (used a timer). While she was having her epsom salt soak, I fed the other fish, so that she wouldn't be eating anything (fasting).

After her soak, I put her back in the tank. I repeated the same procedure at the night feeding.

The next day, she was back to normal. Another fish might need to go an extra day... in any event, this treatment will not hurt the bettas, and it is safer than going the 'pea' route (some people think feeding properly prepared peas helps with constipation - others say it damages their digestive system).

This may not be your betta's problem... but the soaks won't hurt her, if you want to give them a try... You could also added IAL to the solution... Just add some and let them steep awhile while the water is warm. Remove the leaves and use the solution as suggested.

Good luck with your betta... I hope her butt is unfloaty soon!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy, I'll have to save this remedy in case something happens with my male. Epsom salts, not aquarium salts? 

PS, going to be away from the computer for a few hours. I'll check back as soon as I can.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes, Epsom salt.... which isn't really a salt, btw. It's magnesium sulfate, and it has many medicinal properties:

http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/health_benefits.htm

It's not a cure for everything, but whether your a fish or a human, epsom salt is good to soak in (my bf had sore muscles and just went for an epsom soak. We were out of his supply, so he had to borrow some from my fishy supplies, lol)...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Ill be changing her water in about 20 minutes, im letting the water conditioner sit in the jug for a bit first, ill prepare a epsom salt bath, i bought some soon after getting my male and have yet to open it, this is the right kind right?








Ill put her in her cup she came in and use that. If it cant hurt it can only possibly help!
Ill also try to take a couple of pictures of her in her cup if she will let me, usually shes active in her cup, though she willingly swims into it daily i dont think she enjoys it  Ill check for poop in the tank as well, im just unsure what constipated her, i didn't think live foods could and one mini pellet a day i wouldn't expect to either. Either ways no food for her til she starts looking more healthy! Yesterday she did have some poo in her tank though so i wonder. Oh and i dont have ial but i do soak oak leaves for tannins. Ill add that also to the bath. Her waters temp is at 81 degrees, and it doesnt have the heater in, its just THAT HOT in my house, 85+ today


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Okay, i gave her a 20 minute soak in epsom salt and then put her in her clean water. In her tank was one lone kinda big poop. In the epsom salt she unclamped a bit more when id approach and swim alittle but clamp when i was away from her sight. Usually shes trying to push herself out of the cup very furiously swimming along the sides ut she was pretty relaxed. I got some better pictures of her in the cup. Maybe itll look more obvious if shes got eggs shes not re-absorbing/dropping or if its constipation/bloat. Shes now back in her tank with 82 degree clean treated water. Tonight ill repeat the epsom salt for 20 minutes if constipation is the case. Sorry that theres a picture of poop in here but i figured it may be useful, its brown, but with flash its a bit grey, so i took a pic with flash and without. Heres the pictures. Let me know if you have any ideas. In some shes clamping and im dunking out of her sight with a camera in the air like a fool, and in some other where she sees me shes unclamped. Her egg spot seems a bit longer then usual, in one of the pics in particular you can see it.









































Look at that egg spot^^ or egg...tube poking down..o.o
















flash turns it greyish, heres nonflash poop =x








Does she look constipated, or bloated, or eggy?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Her gills are opening and shutting almost constantly, my male doesnt do this that ive noticed... I wish shed feel better =/


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would start a 10 day Epsom salt treatment

In a small bare bottom QT container that can be floated in a heated tank to maintain 76-77F water temp, cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat and humidity for the labyrinth, hold food for the first 2 days then feed mosquito larva 4-5 twice daily....she needs to stay in the Epsom salt water...not a dip at this stage.....

Use a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water and add 2tsp/gal Epsom salt and tannins (either IAL or dried oak leaf) and use this pre-mixed treatment water for 100% daily water changes in the QT for the next 10-14 days.....

Good luck and keep us posted.....


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Is the cup she came in okay for the quarantine? Its about 1/4th or 1.3 of a gallon when filled up. Ammonia wont build too quickly? Her water stays alittle above that temp because its hot here, should i try and lower it any or just leave it that temp. Thank you so much for the advice ofl, i have everything on hand to do that, ill start dissolving the epsom salt now. Is there a reason or proper name for her issue or is this treatment treating a range of possibilities? Again thank you !


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Its hard to say...whats the cause at this point I didn't read all 4 pages....I will go over it tomorrow...time to get off the computer and to go outside...laffs.....

And yes, the small containers the Bettas are sold in are great for QT container, ammonia doesn't build up as fast as you may think and you will be doing 100% daily water changes with the Epsom salt water anyway.......room temp should be fine.....especially this time a year......


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Okay thanks. Im about to switch her into quarintene and then feed my male, hes begging and jealous ) I uncovered her and she wasnt floating in the corner like usual but instead under her plant leaf. If she seems to get better should i continue with the treatment for the full 10 days? The little cup looks so boring ) Ill float her in her own tank so it at least feels like home. Have fun outside and thanks again


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Those pics you took of her are beautiful, she's a gorgeous girl. Maybe the one big poo was enough to get her going? If she was constipated, she was probably all cramped up and no wonder she didn't dart around if that was the case. I wonder if being constipated could make her ovipositor (the tube thing on her stomach) stick out more so it looked like she was eggbound? Agh, fish, they like to make us sweat by using symptoms that could mean any kind of illness! 

I hope her salt baths work. Get well soon, fishy girl!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

OFL,

Thank you for jumping in! 

Punki,

Sounds like your betta girl is on her way to recovery. I'd follow OFL's advice... I learned about the salts from her! She knows what she's talking about, and the extra time in QT won't hurt her a bit. 

Good luck to you and your fishy!


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Thank you  She was the only light colored female petsmart had. Who knew a .49 cent investment would become so attaching ) Shes very shiny and eyecatching for being a little girl, i got her floating in her tank in her cup and shes putting her nose on the bottom of the cup and her little tail end is just floating right up making her almost upside down. I wonder if some bettas are more prone to constipation, i would have never thought live foods could do it but i guess anythings possible. So far no more poops but im keeping my eye out for poop/eggs ANYTHING and distantly pitying her. Hopefully she gets it sorted out. Id hate to wake up and have my butt pulling me around all day XD


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks fishy fishy also, yeah ive seen her jump in with awesome advice on many threads so i sent a message asking for her opinion as well. Got my gallon of water treated and with epsom salt and about 10 oak leaves. Im ready to do this. I just pity her for not being able to be her active self!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Punki,

She's a very beautiful girl... love her colors! The best .49 purchase I've seen in a long time!

Sometimes when the bettas are young, they experiance constipation for no other reason than their organs are so tiny - things don't flow along as they should. As they grow, they become less likely to this problem.

More than likely, she's not suffering true SBD.

She doesn't look overly bloated to me. But keep an eye on her; if she develops any more symptoms feel free to let us know.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I cant see the bloat myself but i look at her alot daily so its great to have others able to look also. Thank you and i sure will. Im hoping to wake up and see her in a happier state. She is quite small, she was only alittle bigger then a quarter at first but shes slowely getting longer  Still small enough to actually do laps in the cup she came in if she felt like it ) My male took up his whole cup and just sat there, but she seems to have room even in that )


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Updating today, woke up, shes still clampy and seems to have to fight harder to try and stay down, her tail seems to pull her up more today. Still fasting and shes been in the epsom salt for about 18 hours, gets a water change in a bit with fresh epsom salt and tannins. Shes fighting it more though, she hates the cup. Last poop was yesterday, the big one.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Sometimes it takes a bit of time for the epsom salts and tannins to do their thing... it took her a few days to get this way... it will take a few days for her to straighten out again.

Glad to hear she's hating her qt container... if she's feisty, that's a good sign! 

Thanks for keeping us posted... hope she continues to progress...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

So tonight shes still soaking in epsom salt but i noticed a poop at the bottom of the cup. The poop is an off white, not brown, do pooped parasites move? This doesnt move. Does epsom salt turn poop lighter colors?
Ive had her a bit over a week and my sister had her about a week but when my sister bought her she was in a cup filled with white floating stuff so i dunno if shes been carrying something or what. Hopefully the epsom salt turns poop off whate, if not, what should i do now? she doesnt look bloated really and i have been fasting her but she does look for food when i change her water, still clamped and her butt pulls her up all day long.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That butt thing is a real mystery. I don't think a pooped-out parasite would move . . . Maybe the poo started out brown and the epsom salts in the water bleached it a little?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Maybe, its curled a bit, not just a thin string, shape of her normal poop just lighter colored, got another one today but smaller. No change in her, if anything growing more lethargic by the day, only moves when i pick up the cup, floats all day at the top otherwise. opening and shutting her gills alot. Sad to watch but i dunno what else to do =/


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Well after googling for an hour i read that sometimes epsom salts can help with flushing internal parasites also, so if thats what it is, at least shes already being treated. Today is day 3 of fasting. Oddly enough the day after i fed her mosquito larvae as usual they all died and she became sick. I assumed they died because of the sun hitting their water and making it too hot though, and my male is fine and he had them as well so im still unsure. Started a fresh batch of larvae hopefully they show up soon, my male is NOT happy about pellets. 
I hope she perks up soon, shes losing enthusiasm and thats making me feel horrible.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

It sounds like she getting stuff out of her system, which is good. 

I know it is hard to wait... we all want our fish to get better NOW. 

How many days has she been fasted?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Thursday she was fasted, friday she got 3 live larvae, saterday and sunday fasted so todays monday. But fridays meal was rather small since she wasnt being very enthusiastic about it (and i didnt want larvae turning to mosquitos in the house.) But shes the same size as in the pictures, no change, no pineconing thank goodness, just same as far as i can see. Ive kept her covered for the most part, ill get a good look when i change her epsom salt water today. Ive just been looking for movement at a distance and a quick peek to make sure she isnt pineconing and otherwise giving her rest and darkness. I have an oak leaf floating in her cup along with tannins i added to her jug of epsom water and she pretty much just wedges herself under it, i guess it helps her feel covered.
I keep one corner of her cup uncovered just so its not completely dark and she tends to float in front of the uncovered bit, still curious wanting to look out at us. Quite cute seeing her little face poking out. Ive only had her for 2 weeks but im so attached! I had nightmares about my fish last night 
It is truely hard to wait.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I know how you feel.

I've had two major illnesses I had to cure... popeye and a severe mauling, plus parasites. Its a long wait for you and the fish, but the recovery is worth while. 

If all you have are pellets, you might try giving her one wel- soaked pellet and she what she does. If she down't eat it, get it out asap. If she eats it, do not feed her again until tomorrow. That will give you time to observe her after the meal, and see how her system handles it.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I was just thinking about one little pellet ) They are very small and swell only alittle when soaked so i was hoping it wouldnt be too hard on her.(just tried, shed jump out, bite the eyedropper trying to get it out and when it did come out she gulped it then spit it out so i removed and tried again, same thing. They do sink too fast though.) I did her water change just now and i can finally say there seems to be a bit of improvement! She was unclamped, her tail still floats but 75% less. she can go down and explore alittle longer Its a bit hard for her to lift her head up to get air but less so today. Made me very happy. Ill continue the epsom water for the rest of the 7 days even if she seems healed but it felt good to see that  Ill probobly update this less unless she gets worse, but here is a picture of her today. Still alittle plump but unclamped and more responsive 
ops lol heres the pics XD


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

You might try some daphina, it is high in protein and fiber, and floats longer than a pellet would (I use Hikari freeze dried).

Haraki Guppy food, although not as high in protein, is very good and floats well.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I went shopping yesterday so i cant run back out for a few dyas, petsmart/walmart is 45 minute drive away and i dont drive so my husband would have to XD I will go look in my other bucket and see if i can find a small mosquito larvae and give her a single one just to see, like you said, how her digestion is going. The pellets float alittle bit when dry but usually i feed her the pellets by finger, she usually jumps out and bites them off my fingertip, she still tries but i guess doesnt like being met with mush ) Do you have any females or happen to know if theres a difference in eggs or bloat?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

and heres a video of her yesterday, obvious butt float and hard to get air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n06mqjC922s
If nothing else in the future if someone has this issue they can see and read how it was treated since the tail seems to be an odd thing to float


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Sorry, had to run away to lunch, lol...

I had wanted to say she's looking better. 

****************

I have only betta girls. 

Eggyness looks different than bloat.

The link below actually has a nice picture of a female with breeding bars evident (vertical white stripes). Just in front of the breeding bars, above the pectoral fins (the little ones on the bottom front) and just below the head, you'll see a roundness. That's eggyness.

Scroll down to the third major paragraph on the left hand side of the screen, under the heading "The female betta". It's the blue girl w/the white vertical stripes.

You'll note the eggyness is to the bottom front of the fish... before the ovipositor. 

http://www.squidoo.com/betta-addiction

Here's another great photo, showing a tank full of eggy females:

http://nippyfish.net/2009/02/05/female-bettas-sorority-sisters-fight-too/?replytocom=298

Bloat can occur in other places on a betta and looks... unwell:

http://www.squidoo.com/bloated-betta

More bloating, including dropsy bloat:

http://nippyfish.net/2009/05/21/symptoms-of-dropsy-in-betta-fish/

I hope this helps clarify eggyness and bloatyness!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I was finally able to see the video (hooray for Google Chrome).

Your betta's bloat seems more pronounced to the middle of the body. It starts after her pectorals... I don't think its eggyness.

Has she been treated with antibiotics?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm thinking that the mosquito larve that died (and your fish ate) were overrun by bacteria...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

No treatments other then the epsom salt and fasting so far. Also i was wondering, if you look closely in the cup, theres this white fuzzy stuff floating around, what is that? When at petsmart she was in her cup and it was full of that, whatever it is. I think she looked a bit round from then on, so i assumed it was the norm for females. Hmm...
Well the water STUNK when i checked and the larvae were dead, not sure if thats a sign or not, i emptied it out, leaving the algae on the sides and refilled it with tap, now theres very small larvae starting to pop up again, should i do anything differently?
The male ate them also, twice as many as her, but hes been eating them daily for a couple of months, maybe he was able to fight it off and her being new... Thats definitely a possibility.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Stinky water and dead larvae and warm water all seem to point to bacteria. White fuzzy stuff... Hmmm... I've got an idea, but let me do some checking.... be back soon...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Be sure and rinse the larva in running water before you feed them....the larva themselves should be safe but the water they are in- is not......


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Yeah i net them, rinse for a minute in cool tap water then drop. So the larvae cant have bacteria inside them or carry?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Is the fuzzy white stuff on the betta or just in her water? How does her tank look (where she was before you put her in QT)?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

OFL,

I'm thinking flexibacter columnaris...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Especially with the comments about the gills...


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I just double checked with a flashlight, as far as i can see her scales,fins,gills and everything else doesnt have the white stuff in it. Could it be slime coating coming off? In her tank ive never noticed it, but it could have been there just not good lighting during water changes. I was just surprised to see it yesterday evening because it reminded me of how she looked in the store, well at the petstore it was much much worse, everywhere around her. But in clean conditioned epsom salted water on day 2 of a fast with a daily water change i didnt expect to see anything. 
Edit: About the gills, shes still inhaling and exhaling quite often, visibly, i keep comparing her to my male and he only does it noticably when excited and also flares, but she does it always.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

...and possible internal septicemia...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> OFL,
> 
> I'm thinking flexibacter columnaris...


Honestly, I haven't read all the pages of this post...we need a full list of symptom along with pics.....it could be the slow moving type unless she has open wounds...since Flex is always in the tank....you can't rule that out.....and one of the reason you always want to be careful with high temps with a compromised fish....this bacteria thrives in warmer water and can multiply fast infecting open wounds of a compromised fish with a low immune response....


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

So y'all can see what I'm reading...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm thinking that since this particular betta does not like pellets at all, that a tank-wide antibiotic treatment is going to be the way to go...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Maracyn & Maracyn II, simultanously... these are widely available...

You can find these at your lps... call first and make sure they have both.


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## KayDowson (Mar 24, 2011)

Hey Punki... I have a 55gal sorrity with some other fish in there... All my girls get eggy and "floaty butt" when they get super full of eggs. Usually they just drop them and all the other fish swim around and eat them. But if I do get a girl who wont drop them I put one of my males in a little 1gal for a bout a day and set him in front of it and usually that makes them drop them and they go back to swimming around and havin fun. She doesn't look too stripy in the pix so it jus may be discomfort from the eggs... I would put the male if front of her and follow OFL's advice. Good Luck.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I can sum it up for you oldfishlady 
Thursday-Fasted, very spazzy but it seemed the norm for her, swimming laps all day long, her first fast ever

Friday-Dropped three rinsed larvae and she ate them but she didnt chase as hard, seemed to have a bit of trouble. As the day passed on she would float at the top, no leaning or anything.

Saturday-Clamped most of the time. Fasted. started having issues staying down, her tail pulled her back to the top, her gills seemed to open and shut and she seemed very tired, just floated. Saturday night the epsom salt bath was started. She was moved to her cup, Floating in her tank at 78-82 degrees through the night and morning. Her poop was brown and large this day. If i zoom on it it has a bit of mucus on the outside covering it it seemed.

Sunday- Fasted. Clamped most of the time.Tired, lethargic, Tail pulling her and keeping her to the top always. No change in belly size, two small curly whitish poops found in her cup at the bottom and some whitish floating stuff noticable in the light and apparent in this video, still breathing heavily.

Today- Tried a soaked mini pellet but she spit it out, soaked one so it wasnt complete mush and she ate it and held it down. Less clampy. Tired, less pulling up from her tail, she can swim down easier, still breathing heavily, Shows interest in anything, jumped out of her water and nipped at my finger but still not well, still breathing hard and staying near or at the top.

And here are pictures of her ranging from thursday to today in order.









































Video showing the whitish floating stuff and how her tail was holding her up yesterday..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n06mqjC922s
And today...
















No open wounds or anything visibly abnormal to me, but im new to females at least and shes white, im used to my dark male but ive held a flashlight up and looked as thoroughly as i could with no sign of any wounds. 

-I cant get out today, is there anything else i could do to help her until i can go back up to petsmart/walmart? I wish i lived closer -.- Local stores only carry fish foods so no luck there.

Edit- Her waters been in the uper 70's and low 80's i have a heater but...its just hot so it never kicks on, i could put cool bags of water under her cup though if its too hot.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Also thanks For all the research and advice so far. Im a bit hesitant to give her medications atm with her being weak but im going to read the links you put up and see if it seems right as well.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Nice job, Punki!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I wouldn't start antibiotic at this point-if at all....she doesn't appear to be in that bad of shape in the video...I would continue with the current Epsom salt treatment since she is starting to respond to it.....


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## KayDowson (Mar 24, 2011)

swim bladder maybe? Is she just floating when she tries to swim or is she falling kinda on one side?


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

She currently can swim up and down with only slight pulling upward of her tail, she still prefers to just sit at the top when nobodys watching her, but if i pull the cover off and she gets light she reacts like in the video. No sideways floating or anything, always upright. But yesterday her tail would pull her so much that she had to arch her back to try and get air from the surface and at points she would look as if someone had hold of her tail and she just couldnt go down at all. Today is an improvement but unless i approach she floats in the same single spot resting i guess.
Oldfishlady, about the larvae, i just lightly rinsed the bucket outside, leaving the black muck at the bottom and the algae on the sides, then refilled it up and threw some oak leaves on top, baby larvae are starting to show up but i havent scooped any as of yet, Worried to give it to my male in the remote chance something is wrong with them. If something was, would the rinse and refill get it back under control? Hes pretty angry with pellets these last two days )
Ill have to hold off on medication either way since i have no way to get it, but i do have lots of water and epsom salt and i am seeing improvement so ill stick to that unless osmething else comes up. This thread has gotten pretty huge. My obsessiveness has me posting too often =x


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

She did eat? Good! I missed that. You might just be able to give her medicated pellets instead of treating the whole tank.

I'm wondering about the yellowish triangle shaped area I see through her skin... could be her swim bladder or kidney... whatever it is, it looks swollen...

No worries... you have to do what you feel is best for your betta.  I'm no doctor or expert in this field, just a hobbyist like yourself, trying to be helpful, if I can.


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

When i just walked over she was arched at the bottom of the cup.... I thought the worst but then she saw me and tried to swim but she just rubbed her belly along the bottom of the tank trying to get to the top. As if she couldnt control what direction she was going in... *sighs* ill continue the epsom salts and offer her a pellet in the morning. Time to cover her up for awhile and let her rest.
The day i got her she had that, i always assumed she was a bit see through and that was either her tummy or her eggs, not knowing any better. Im not sure what it is, but its slowely gotten larger over the past week, at first i thought it was because she saw my male ofr a minute and maybe it started an egg making process but im unsure. =/


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You want to net the larva and hold them in the net under the running water and then toss in the tank.....you don't want to add any water from the culture bucket that you have the larva in.....

The odd colored poop is most likely due to either her reabsorbing eggs or dropping and eating them

It is normal for them to rest in one spot when in QT...no place to really swim...lol......like being in a hospital bed of sorts.....on bed rest...kinda...laffs.....


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

I guess thats true, when excited she tries to swim right out of the cup. lol  Seeing her flop at the bottom has me a bit down so i think ill just cover her and head outside to tend to my pumpkins im growing and take my mind off of it. Its too bad that shes always looked like this and petsmart sold her for 49 cents with a 14 day warranty, and today is day 14 and shes not well. I wouldnt have bought her myself but i couldnt let my sister return her so i took her, i didnt expect to get attached so fast.  Thank you all for the help truely!


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## KayDowson (Mar 24, 2011)

Sounds/looks kinda like swim bladder or maybe constipation... I would follow OFL's advice with the fasting and epsom salt


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Updated post because now something else is going on and...yeah 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=688041#post688041


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