# Help! Fin Rot? Black Spot? or normal?



## OisinAgaeia

Hi, I'm new to this board and I have an urgent question. I've had my Bettas since Feb 14; I bought both of them at Walmart. When I got them neither of them wanted to eat; we tried flakes, pellets (one ate but then threw them out), lettuce, peas and nothing worked until we tried dried worms. Since then they've been great, eating like champions and swimming like nobodies business. They continue to do so.

However, today as I was showing my little niece the fishes, I noticed that my boy had black spots on his bottom and tail fin. They looked like little dots of ink. Further inspection came with nothing on his actual body. They don't look like things stuck on his body, they just look like... dots of ink if you will. I had noticed that his fins appeared to be thinning but I asked and they told me that it was perfectly normal. I took a couple of pictures for you guys to see and help me since I went online and looked from black spot and it appeared to be all over their body while mine only has on the fins. I also noticed today that his tail fin appeared to be slightly torn at the bottom.


http://i53.tinypic.com/2rcbnzl.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/343rtaq.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/14jxnhg.jpg

On my little girl I had noticed that her fins appeared to be turning black on the very edge. I asked and once again they told me it was perfectly normal. I'm afraid its fin rot or poisoning. She doesn't have any spots even though they share the same aquarium (with a divider)

http://i52.tinypic.com/2iu8iyq.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/5m061k.jpg

This is their habitat:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2qise9e.jpg
His side:
Her side:

They have both fake and real plants, lake rocks so they won't get hurt and their little play rock has been filed down so that it doesn't tear their fins.

They are both active, they don't appear to be scratching, and they ate perfectly fine today. They eat twice a day (one every 12 hours), 6 days a week (I was told to not feed them one day to clean their system).

Any help with identifying this would be great! I have them with tap conditioned water, a couple of drops of blue medicine, de-stresser, and freshwater salt which I add with every water change. They receive no direct sunlight, only the light of the aquarium which is turned on for a couple of hours a day.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10 gallons, divided in half so five gallons each.
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter? yes, but its only turned on once a week because they don't seem to like it.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? No
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? by themselves but their tank is divided in half. They can see each other and at times 'flare' their gills at one another without attacking through the film.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? dried worms
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day, once every 12 hours.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? once a week, 25% water change. Full change once a month. Just last week performed a full water change.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25% weekly, 100% once a month
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? tap water conditioner, freshwater salt, de-stresser, and a couple of drops of blue medicine.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
Haven't tested my water, i don't have any strips.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? 
When first bought he had limp fins, now he extends them, bottom and back fin have black dots on them, bottom and back fin appear to be thinning, back fin has some tearing at bottom.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
No
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Female: a couple of weeks ago, Male: thinning: a couple of days ago, spots: today.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
They told me to put some freshwater salt, used half of the regular dosage (1 teaspoon instead of 1 tablespoon)
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
After being bought they didn't want to eat, the male had slumped fins, other than that no.
How old is your fish (approximately)? 
I'm guessing less than a year old since it was purchased at Wal Mart


----------



## SillyCone

Well, if this helps I found this link here:

http://www.bettafishcenter.com/Fin-Rot.shtml

But I'm afraid that's all I can do. =/

Just hang in there buddy while the experts appears!


----------



## OisinAgaeia

Thank you. I'm hoping its really not fin rot but everyone who sees them says its normal. Yet again while they've had fish before (bettas included) they are hardly experts. All I can do is wait.

They are still active, still devouring their food. The male has some spots on his top fin that I guess were too faint for me to see beforehand.


----------



## Gnome507

From what I can see in the picture it doesn't appear to be fin rot but instead your fishes coloring. Fin rot appears at the tips of a fishes fins and then moves up. When this happens your fishes fins will appear to look torn and ragged. Your fish look happy and bright


----------



## OisinAgaeia

So its just the coloration? I'm keeping a close look at his fins and they do look different; thinner and, dare I say, a little ragged looking. 

He looks bright blue with he flash but without it he looks more of a grey, almost copperly grey if that makes any sense.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2w4zdqg.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/qqpje1.jpg


----------



## Gnome507

The dots are his normal coloration yes. Is there some white on his tail where it looks jagged? If so then he may have had fin rot in the past and is now growing back pieces of fin that had been affected. If your fish is new it wouldn't surprise me that he had fin rot. From photos you took I don't see any sign of fin rot though. The tips would turn gray/black and a tad bit shorter. But if you still feel uneasy about his tail I'd send a message to OldFishLady. She is very helpful and knows her fish


----------



## OisinAgaeia

Nop, no white. I wouldn't be surprised. Pet stores where I live usually don't have good reputations. Thank you for the help, I sure will contact her if I have anymore questions.


----------



## Gnome507

Your welcome  Lol when I first brought my fish home I was so worried about him. Eventually though my fears did come true he ended up getting fin rot. Luckily I caught it at an early stage. Which was easily curable. In the future when you can't get a hold of Oldfishlady ( I'm pretty sure she gets tons of messages!!) I recommend this place http://bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm


----------



## JKfish

They're fine, however I'd keep an eye on the girl's fins, while it doesn't really look like finrot, it could possibly be.

Also, I'm not sure if you constantly add the salt and methylene blue on a daily basis or just for treating their fins, so I'm just going to assume to constantly add them after every water change (if you don't, I apologize). Adding AQ salt can actually increase bad pathogens' resistance to salt, which sucks when your fish get sick and you try to use natural methods (like salt and warm water) to heal. Same goes for the blue medicine; everything bad that lives in your tanks will be developing a resistance to that medicine. Also, over extended periods of time, they both can injure bettas' internal organs.

I'd also advise getting them onto pellets. Freeze dried blood worms have little to no nutrition (freeze dried is to bettas as greasy french fries are to humans). They make great snacks and treats, but aren't all that great in the long run. To get them onto pellets, try presoaking in garlic juice.

I wouldn't recommend splitting tanks between bettas of the opposite gender. All the pheromones get their hormones raging, which can lessen their lifespan. There is also the (very real) possibility one of them could decide to jump to the other's side and breed. It's happened to several forum members here.


----------



## Oldfishlady

Welcome to the forum and what lovely Bettas you have.....

All I could tell on the pic was normal pigment-the black edges look to me like new fin growth and pigment.

Since they are otherwise acting and eating okay I wouldn't worry......however, I do see several problems in general that could cause problems for your Bettas.....

Filter-you either need to leave it on all the time or remove it....reason....after about 6 hours any good bacteria that has colonized on the filter media is going to die due to lack of oxygen and due to lack of oxygen and lots of nutrients created in the filter box a lot of bad bacteria are going to start to colonize and then the ammonia...every time you turn the filter on you are flooding the tank with some bad stuff....good thing its a 10gal.....its just a matter of time.....

Food-good that they are eating for you, however, the freeze dried foods have little nutrition and should only be fed as a treat a couple of times a week...you need a good staple diet..pellets are good...find several different kinds for carnivores-protein of at least 40% or more-they don't have to be made for Bettas...lots of good pellets for cichlids that are good...look for the first couple of inged. to be from whole or processed seafood/fish...fed small amounts several times a day...one day a week fast can be good....also, frozen foods and live food are good....they love mosquito larva.....

In a 10gal unfiltered tank-twice weekly 50% water changes and 1-100% monthly unless you have lots of live plants to help with filtration...one or two plants won't work...lots of fast growing stem and/or floating plants work the best if you want to use them for filtration....

The less chemical additives the better....a good dechlorinator with any new water added to the tank is usually all you need...too many different products can be toxic for both the fish and environment......

Aquarium salt....not needed....its a great product to use for treatments when used for the right reason, dosage and duration....otherwise you can create resistants and long term use can cause kidney damage.....I would make some 50% daily water change for 2 days and get the salt out.....


----------



## OisinAgaeia

Thank you so much for the advice. I will keep a look out on the girl. I will go ahead and do the fifty percent water change for two days to get off the treatments. I only put a teaspoon of salt with every full water change so I just won't be putting it anymore. 

From now on I will only use the tap water conditioner. Should I not use the de-stresser either? I will take off the filter and just do it manually, they get scared with the filter and can't handle the current so I think its for the best if I just take it off.

I tried getting them on pellets today. the girl ate them, the boy didn't though he happily ate the dried worms. I will attempt to do so again. How do I get garlic juice though?


----------



## JKfish

Just get a garlic clove and crush it.  I typically put the crushed garlic in a little shot glass of water, if refridgerated it'll last me about a week before I have to toss out the garic juice-water and start fresh. Also, bettas can go techinically a few weeks without food, so don't feel bad if you make him skip a meal or two before he accepts them. Also, it's a good idea to presoak them all the time (even if just in water) so the pellets don't expand in their stomachs and constipate them. I typically advise feeding 2-3 pellets twice daily, and having a fasting day once a week where they skip a meal to clear out their systems.

You don't need to add the destresser  Just tap water conditioner will do fine.


----------

