# Koi ponds!! :)



## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Has anybody ever started a thread devoted to koi lovers?
I think they deserve some appreciation, they're so beautiful and friendly 
Like puppies  without the saliva and dandruff allergies


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

lol. If you couldn't guess by my name, I'm a huge koi-lover. My oldest fish are my koi. You can see two of them in my sig: Byakko and Kurama. I can talk for hours about my pond and koi. My pond is on the small side right now (4000 gal), but one day I plan to build a 20,000+ gal pond. I've even got a rough sketch of it. 

Koi are some of my favorite fish. I just love those little whiskers and the way they glide through the water. 

Here is a picture of my pond and one of my koi from this past summer. I spend hours out there daily. I love being around them and the waterfall.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Wow! Your pond is beautiful! It looks so natural, almost magical!
After my grandpa passed away my family inherited his koi collection.
We took care of them in his back yard for a while (the commutes were awful) and then once another family moved in, they took care of them until we were able to build an appropriate pond for them.

He had six, his pond was smaller than ours so were considering adding three more to the collection.
But my grandpa took a lot of pride in his koi so we don't want to add just any type.
How many and what types do you have?
I've only named two of my koi (the ones which are my favorites) a tancho sanke named "red cap" and a yellow hakarimuji named "corporal banana" 

My sister casually calls one "Steve" (a white butterfly hakarimuji) but it hasn't really caught on


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm sorry that's how you came into koi ownership, but I'm sure your grandfather would be very proud of the way you are taking care of them. 

I've got 6 koi. I could add a few more, but I'm not inclined to mess with a good thing. I don't have any quarantine equipment for koi. They need a little larger tank that for normal fishkeeping. Plus, overstocking a pond is asking for trouble. Here's the best picture I have of all of them. I've got a few more pics here and a few older ones in my albums. 










Byakko the shiro utsuri (in my sig; boyfriend calls her "Moo"). Genbu the shiro matsuba. Kohaku the suzaku. Kurama the tancho sanke (also in my sig). Umi the showa. And Halloween the aka bekko (it's my best guess; could also a sanke). I bought all of them from pet stores, so they weren't advertised as a specific breed. I even rescued one from WalMart years ago. I can't afford the koi being sold by proper breeders. They're so beautiful, but sooo expensive. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent looking at the beautiful fish online. 

If I did add any more fish I would probably add an orenji ogon and yellow (yamabuki) ogon. I think my pond needs a splash of yellow.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Yeah, I'm tentative about adding new fish incase I upset the balance.
If I could afford it I would totally go to Japan to witness a harvest of koi from the mud ponds  that would be sooooo cool!  it feels very sacred when I watch videos of it on the Internet.
I actually have a store in my area which specializes in koi fish, and the pond construction industry. It's been a blessing to have them within a 30 min driving distance. 
The owner Randall, is such agreat guy, and so knowledgeable. He helped us with our pond when it was being built (well more "we helped him").
He also rents those great big blue quarantine vats out so I would have quarantine options if I needed them.
He also does fish day care if you don't want to leave your fish in the pond over winter (we opt for the greenhouse method though)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Overwintering and quarentine equipment rentals? You are sooo lucky to have that guy! I had a pond guy, but when the pond industry took a big hit a few years ago he had to sell his business. I bought a few koi from him, and he helped us (lol same thing with me "I helped him") build my pond. 

I guess you would have a few more problems overwintering your koi in New York than I would in Virginia (I'm in the southern region, ugh). I don't even think I've seen my pond freeze over. I've seen it covered in snow maybe once. 

I've never seen videos of the mud pond harvest in Japan. Although I would love to go see some of the ancient koi ponds in Japan. Have you ever heard the story of Hanako? Supposedly there was a koi in a pond in Japan that lived to be over 200 years old. Hanako <-- This is the transcript of a radio conversation held with the owner of the pond. I love how dearly this man treats his koi. 

Do you have any pictures of your pond, Mavi? I love looking at pictures of ponds.


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

Beautiful Koi you guys have  I'd love a Koi Pond someday..but I'd be afraid of the upkeep  Since I live in Ohio, they'd get cold pretty quick in the winter. How do you guys do water changes on those? Is it hard to keep the water clear and smelling like water rather than a swamp? My Grandma and Grandpa had a pond with a ton of Goldfish, it was green and smelled horribly


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## BettaMommy531rip (Dec 29, 2011)

I love koi! But you need a big pond/big tank and I can't afford that. But I'll be happy to contribute to the conversation!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Zappity said:


> Beautiful Koi you guys have  I'd love a Koi Pond someday..but I'd be afraid of the upkeep  Since I live in Ohio, they'd get cold pretty quick in the winter. How do you guys do water changes on those? Is it hard to keep the water clear and smelling like water rather than a swamp? My Grandma and Grandpa had a pond with a ton of Goldfish, it was green and smelled horribly


Some people do water changes on a pond, some don't. You will have to make water changes if it is overstocked. However, if it isn't, large enough and planted enough you won't have to. I never do. But I do have an overflow outlet for when it rains. So I guess every time it rains my pond gets a water change. My pond has never smelled bad or anything. My guess that the reason your grandparent's pond smelled bad was due to a lack of water movement. Stagnate water always smells. 

The deal with having a pond and being up north is that you have to know the depth to which your ground freezes and then dig the pond 1-2 feet deeper. This will enable you to overwinter the fish in the pond. Still, when you do want to build your pond, find someone in the area who specializes in ponds. Trust me, it was the best decision I ever made with my pond. 

Have any of you guys browsed koi auction sites? They have beautiful fish, but they're sooo expensive. I've seen koi selling for over $2,000!!!

Also, would you rather buy a small koi and watch it grow or buy a large koi? I'm in a conundrum. All of my koi are 12 inches and larger. Koi of those size are $100+. As much as I love them, I can't afford to drop that much on a koi. But I'm worried that my larger koi would bully a small guy. Or that the small guy would be too shy to come out and starve to death (that happened to me before). Another option I have is just to not introduce anything new since I have a good thing going.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Thekoimaiden- I had never heard the story of hanako before, but I read a fact somewhere that the oldest documented koi lived to be 246!
And if you were wondering, we do generally have to be careful because it does get quite cold and since we live right on lake Ontario the temperatures fluctuate even more!
Id also love to show you some pictures but I've never actually taken any, ill take some in the summer when my pond isn't covered  ill show you my fishie friends 
The reason I want more koi is because I want to watch them grow up  so I would probably get some between 4 and 6 inches. Also that way I won't really know what they're colours will turn out to be it'll be a surprise  it will also help with costs.
I've seen some koi auctions where fish have been sold for over 500 000!!!!!! I couldn't believe it!
As for larger bullying the small, I can't see that happening. Koi are such a peaceful fish (at least mine are) I can maybe seeing mine giving them the cold shoulder since they are all so buddy-buddy  
Zappity- the key to cutting down on the maintenance you have to do is the long run is to not cut corners when building. My pond has four bottom filters and eight jets. Without them, nothing in my pond would live becauseit wouldn't be able to keep up with the maintenance. Filtration and aeration is everything.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh I miss our koi. They were so pretty. My parents are so determined to get new koi, but I'm not letting them until we are ready and we do this right. I really want to do as much reading as possible to have a...well, as close to fool-proof koi pond as possible. It's going to be tough to convince them to let the little baby koi grow into their full size before deciding we need more koi to fill in the space. The good thing is they know not to mess with a good thing. If I can get a large enough pond that has plants and looks nice and can handle rain and such, they might not try and mess with it without my consent. We just had too small of a pond and not enough plants. And a...really pathetic filter.  

I personally don't want more koi until a long time from now(I'm still heartbroken to be honest...), but my parents are pushing for them hard, so I need to study quick. I might PM some of you who are super knowledgeable on koi so I can get a quick study guide and know where to look for the right info.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Oh no! What happened to your koi, purple muffin?!

Koi maiden- I just realized that although I've never taken a picture of my pond before, it's on Randall's website in his portfolio!
If you type in clarkekoi.com and then click on "portfolio" it's on the eighth page (there are side to side arrows)
It's the L shaped one.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

They just didn't survive the move. I don't know what happened really, I tried to follow every bit of instruction on transporting them exactly. Part of me feels that they just went into shock. While I tried to keep their water clean as possible, with me being gone at school I don't think my parents really kept up with things like water changes, which they needed in their small 'pond'. So the move and the stress and then being in cleaner water. I tried to let them acclimate perfectly, but it just didn't work.. I don't know. They died very quickly, it was completely heartbreaking. I had tried so hard. My parents aren't good with fish, and they kept taking the wrong advice. By the time I got home I was just doing my best to get them back on track, and it seemed like it was going well. They grew so much! They were feeder size when we got them, and the biggest one was 14 inches when he/she died.  Now they want a new pond, but they said they'd listen to me this time. I'm actually about to write a new thread about this in a moment.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Mavi, I was thinking about getting some between 6 and 8 inches. I love watching them grow; I also love the price when they are that small. Again, my only worry is quarantine. I'll work it out later, tho. I've still got a few months before I can add any koi. 

:shock: $500000 ?!?!?! Holy smokes that's a brand new car!!!!! I know I've seen blue fin tuna go for something like that, but a single koi? It must have been a perfect tancho. I kinda want to see this half a million dollar koi. 

I have one large koi who can be a bit pushy with food. Halloween. She's the largest and the piggiest. I've actually had better luck when I introdcue my koi in groups of 2. The two new guys just hang together for a bit before they find their place in the school. When I introduced one little guy on his own (Suzaku the kohaku, my newest edition) he hid for months. I would only see him around feeding time and only for a second. It took him a whole year to get comfortable with the group. 

Oh. My. God. Mavi, your pond is amazing!! It's huge!!! I would love to see some pictures of your fish next summer. They must be huge!!! 



Mavi said:


> Zappity- the key to cutting down on the maintenance you have to do is the long run is to not cut corners when building.


+1000000 This is the best advice! Never cut corners with a pond. It will kill you in the long run. Ponds are expensive endeavors. But if you have the time, the money, and the will, they are wonderful places to retreat. 

Muffin, I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. *hugs* I would be devastated to lose my koi. But you are right to wait and research. Be sure to remind your parents that koi ponds are life-long commitments. Even if you decide to get rid of the koi, you will still have a huge hole in your backyard which is an insurance liability. I think your best bet is to find a local koi expert. There are certain quarks of the different locations we all live in which local pond expert will be best versed in. Mavi has her pond guy, and I have mine. They really make a difference. Ponds are different than aquariums. It really is best to bring in outside help when constructing it. You might also want to find a local koi pond club. They can help, too. Or a good koi forum. You'll find great advice there.

EDIT: Muffin, I did a quick search on Texas Koi Clubs and found a few. I found some based in Houston and some in Dallas. I don't know which would be closer to you. They might be something to look into, tho.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

It was not fun. I've heard that common goldfish and such are slightly hardier, and stay a little smaller than koi, so I was considering reading up on instead giving them a goldfish pond. But I've got a lot of reading to do. 

Thanks for the search, I do live in the DFW area, actually near Arlington. I'll see if I can check them out and they can give me some answers. Would they deal in goldfish also, or just koi specifically?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

purplemuffin said:


> It was not fun. I've heard that common goldfish and such are slightly hardier, and stay a little smaller than koi, so I was considering reading up on instead giving them a goldfish pond. But I've got a lot of reading to do.
> 
> Thanks for the search, I do live in the DFW area, actually near Arlington. I'll see if I can check them out and they can give me some answers. Would they deal in goldfish also, or just koi specifically?


I have cousins in that area. My grandparents used to live in Houston, but they traded the heat for the snow and moved to Ohio. It seems like most of the clubs deal in goldfish and koi ponds. I found one in the Dallas area and a one for all of Texas. Texas Koi & Fancy Gold Fish Society - Home and Dallas Koi Kichi Group - Home I'm hoping those guys can give you some help. Sometimes silly parents need to hear the same things that we say from other adults. 

Goldfish would be another good alternative. They do stay smaller and are a little hardier. Your pond wouldn't need to be a huge to house a good number of them. With shubunkins and comets you still have a good choice of colors and fin types. Wakins are another interest goldfish that are best kept in ponds.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Goining a koi club would kill me  I would come home with so much stuff I don't need 
Thanks koi maiden!  I'm very fond of my pond  and as you can see its big enough that three more koi wouldn't overstock it in the least.
Most of the fish are around 15-20 inches but then corporal banana dwarfs them completely. He's almost 32 inches now!
How big is Halloween?
Introducing them in pairs is a really good idea.

Purple muffin, I'm so sorry for your loss that must have been devastating.
I have the same parent problem, with my betta when I'm away from home they used to over feed him because they think I'm starving him.
They are under the impression that they need absolutely zero maintenance. Luckily they don't take the same attitude with the koi.

If you really want some smaller hardier pond fish Shubunkins are like around goldfish size but they have beautiful long fins and they have patterning like sanke koi. They are quite beautiful.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

We had a shubunkins mixed in with our koi as well, he was actually a surprise dropped off in our pond from our neighbor. We just went outside after a storm and there were two new fish in the pond and our neighbor had packed up and moved out. It was very strange. But they were both beautiful. A ryukin and a shubunkins were the fish gifted to us, I loved them both.

I have an idea for the pond that would make it work. But in our new house it looks like the only space in the back yard would allow for a 5x5x3(MAYBE 4' deep) pond. With a decent filter, how many goldfish do you think would work in that size? I want to make it look very modern--a perfect square with thick concrete slabs, would look very much like modern japanese architecture. A nice equally modern waterfall in the back helping out with water circulation. The whole pond area would be very sleek and I think the modern 'look' might help prevent any random new fish purchases that could over stock the pond. It would already look nice with only a few goldfish in it. 

In that size what filter/amount of goldfish would be suggested for low maintenance? :/


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## BettaMommy531rip (Dec 29, 2011)

Is it possible just to put 1-2 koi in a VERY large tank?


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Purple muffin. I'm not sure, you should find some way of calculating the gallonage. Then it would be easier to figure out how many should fit.

Bettamommy531rip, I would never ever keep koi in a tank! How big of a tank are you talking about


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## BettaMommy531rip (Dec 29, 2011)

I don't know. As big as it needs to be.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

If it's 5x5x3 it would be 561 gallons. 5x5x4 would be 748 gallons. But in all likelyhood the actual inside of the pond might be more like 4.5x4.5x3 which is 454, or 4.5x4.5x4 which is 606. So somewhere around the 400-600 range in gallons.


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## BettaMommy531rip (Dec 29, 2011)

Oh. Grrrrr. Maybe I'll try some fancy varieties of goldfish. Or guppies. Or maybe I'll stick with bettas.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

I wasn't answering your post, haha!  Sorry. From what I've read though, koi seem to need a minimum of 250 gallons? They get much larger than goldfish.


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## BettaMommy531rip (Dec 29, 2011)

Oh. Well I definitely don't have room for 250 gallons. My 10 gallon takes up enough space. And that's just for a betta  I still think koi are beautiful fish, but I can't afford to give them what they need. How much money do you really nead to invest anyway?


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

For koi..Lots. But they live a lot longer than bettas too. 

What about a fancy goldfish? A lot of the fancy goldfish only need a 20 gallon to themselves, could you invest in a 55 gallon tank(I got one on craigslist for 50 dollars) for maybe 2 or 3?


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

Ha, koi just don't live longer than Bettas, if kept in awesome conditions they live longer than humans......


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Very true, and very cool!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Mavi said:


> Goining a koi club would kill me  I would come home with so much stuff I don't need
> Thanks koi maiden!  I'm very fond of my pond  and as you can see its big enough that three more koi wouldn't overstock it in the least.
> Most of the fish are around 15-20 inches but then corporal banana dwarfs them completely. He's almost 32 inches now!
> How big is Halloween?
> ...


Halloween is about 15 inches(?) maybe as large as 18 inches. I usually sit on a rock next to the waterfall and don't often get close to my koi. Plus I haven't seen them in a few months. The others are around 12 inches and the youngest, Suzaku, is about 10 inches. These are all guestimates. I should see if I can get an actual measurement this spring. Wish me luck trying to get them to stay still. 

Corporal Banana must be an awesome fish to see! At 32 inches he's bigger than most small dogs and house cats! I can't wait until I have a pond that can house a koi that large. My pond is about 5 ft wide by 13 ft long. There is also a lot of water in the upper stream, waterfall, and lower stream.



BettaMommy531rip said:


> Is it possible just to put 1-2 koi in a VERY large tank?


Koi are actually breed to be viewed from the top. I've had koi in a tank for just a short time, and they really don't look half as good as when they are in ponds. They also need huge tanks. 1000 gal is the smallest recommended koi pond size. However, I have seen bettas sold with koi-like colorings. Guppies are another good alternative. They can live in a 10 gal. I'd one day like to have a 40 gal full of them. 



purplemuffin said:


> -snip-
> I have an idea for the pond that would make it work. But in our new house it looks like the only space in the back yard would allow for a 5x5x3(MAYBE 4' deep) pond. With a decent filter, how many goldfish do you think would work in that size? I want to make it look very modern--a perfect square with thick concrete slabs, would look very much like modern japanese architecture. A nice equally modern waterfall in the back helping out with water circulation. The whole pond area would be very sleek and I think the modern 'look' might help prevent any random new fish purchases that could over stock the pond. It would already look nice with only a few goldfish in it.
> 
> In that size what filter/amount of goldfish would be suggested for low maintenance? :/


That sounds like a really neat design! I personally like the more natural looks, but it still sounds awesome if done right. I think the best way to make a pond low-maintence is to under stock it. 



BettaMommy531rip said:


> Oh. Well I definitely don't have room for 250 gallons. My 10 gallon takes up enough space. And that's just for a betta  I still think koi are beautiful fish, but I can't afford to give them what they need. How much money do you really nead to invest anyway?


How much have I spend on my koi pond? Well building it cost about as much as a car. That was the largest expense. The koi weren't that expensive but that's because I bought them young. Food is another major expense. They eat a lot in the summer.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

How many goldfish would you suggest for understocking while still looking nice? Let's say I bought a filter made to filter up to 500 gallons. Even understocked, would it be better to get double filtration, like one that could filter up to 1000 gallons?


8) I'm asking you so many questions, I'm sorry!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*pokes head in* I'm so jealous of all of you with koi ponds. Since I'll be rehoming my one and only koi baby in the spring, I'll soon be carpless.  I don't know if I've told you this before, koimaiden, but your pond is so absolutely gorgeous that it could be featured in magazines.


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## Tappy4me (Jan 8, 2012)

I love Koi. When I have a place of my own, I'd love to have a koi pond! I've really fallen in love with those long finned ones. (I don't know what they're called...I saw one in a pet store the other day. He and 3 other Koi were in a pond in the front of the store. He was solid white and just gorgeous!)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

purplemuffin said:


> How many goldfish would you suggest for understocking while still looking nice? Let's say I bought a filter made to filter up to 500 gallons. Even understocked, would it be better to get double filtration, like one that could filter up to 1000 gallons?
> 
> 
> 8) I'm asking you so many questions, I'm sorry!


No worries. I'll answer to the best of my abilities. One thing about stocking you'll want to keep in mind is water surface. If you're going to have a completely square tank then you will be limited in stocking. You could follow the koi stocking levels and go with about 500 gal for one fish, but I can understand not wanting to do that with just 600 gal pond. Maybe go with 100 gal per fish?

On the other hand you could try to get a breed of goldfish that stays smaller. Ryukins are known to be small, but I don't know hot they would handle the Dallas winter. I think shubunkins tend to stay smaller than commons and comets. 

For the actual level of filtration, I don't think I can answer that. Filtration is something that I'm not even sure about with my filtration on my normal tanks. That might be a question for the pond club guys.

Aww, thanks, Sakura. ^-^ It really is my pride and joy.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks for the advice!  I'm contacting the groups so I hope they'll give me even more information! I'll make sure everything is set in stone long before the pond build so there is no guesswork later!


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Koi maiden, I've swum in my pond before (hides guilty pleasure)  and my measurements aren't exact at all because I just sort of hold the measuring tape up to them as they swim by  

To the others, it may seem challenging to first get your koi pond up and running but it is sooooo worth it. It's my sanctuary. I wish my pond looked as natural and as part of a rainforest like the koi maiden's does


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## blueridge (Jul 1, 2011)

Awesome koi you guys! I can't wait to get out and start my own tank for them.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I would love to have a pond large enough to swim in!! That sounds soo amazing, Mavi. Have you tried snorkeling in it? I bet that would look magical!! My pond isn't large enough to swim in, but I have been in it. It comes up to my hips when I stand on the bottom. I'm about 5'1" to give you an idea of how deep it is. 

I tried to make my pond look as natural as possible. Thanks, Mavi! Natural-looking ponds are my favorite. I still appreciate a modern design, too. I think yours gets has a nice balance. I actually had someone ask me if it was spring-fed. I guess that means I got the design right. ^-^ 

Oh ya. I forgot to mention, one of my koi, Byakko has a deformity of the mouth bones. I've never been able to actually determine what is wrong with her mouth. She eats in a different manner from the rest of the koi. She only eats out of one side of her mouth, the non-deformed one. I was really scared that I lost her the first winter she was in the pond, but she pulled through! My boyfriend also calls her Moo... Silly boyfriend. She is also the easiest to photograph, hence the below photo.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Hmm, you can't see any deformity in the photo. That's cute though  does she hand feed?

I've never snorkeled, it would probably be pretty cool though 
I want to put some surface plants in to make it look more natural


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I think the deformity is on the underside of her mouth. I haven't been able to get her to hand feed yet, but I really haven't worked on that. I would love to be able to do that this summer. I started to hand feed my goldfish this winter and have been having so much fun with it; I would love to be able to hand-feed my koi. 

I found an underwater camera in my room the other week. When spring comes I'm going to try to snap some underwater pictures of my koi. I bet snorkeling would be something like that. 

I tried lilies with my pond, but I didn't have enough sun. Water lettuce is another good alternative. It grows really fast and is great for zapping nitrates. I think it is one of the fastest growing plants in existence. Water hyacinth is another good floating plant. It makes a beautiful flower.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

I think I'll try water lettuce, I'm lacking sun in my backyard too.

I've been trying so hard to get them to hand feed! If I dangle my legs over my deck they will swim between them but they shy away from my hands for some reason.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I forgot to mention that duckweed can be used as a floating plant, but it's so small and so prolific that it's almost impossible to get rid of once you introduce it. I have it in my betta tanks, but I don't think I'd put it in my pond. 

I do the same thing. There is a nice flat rock that I sit on and dangle my feet in the water. My koi love to nibble at my toes. I often put my legs in the water when I feed them, but when my hands go in the water they scatter. When I'm working in the lower stream, pulling out weeds and stuff they will come over to investigate, but hands in the water near them. Nope. Always run away. I once remember reading that koi can be skittish in clear water as they are naturally a mucky-water fish. This could be part of the problem.


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> Some people do water changes on a pond, some don't. You will have to make water changes if it is overstocked. However, if it isn't, large enough and planted enough you won't have to. I never do. But I do have an overflow outlet for when it rains. So I guess every time it rains my pond gets a water change. My pond has never smelled bad or anything. My guess that the reason your grandparent's pond smelled bad was due to a lack of water movement. Stagnate water always smells.
> 
> The deal with having a pond and being up north is that you have to know the depth to which your ground freezes and then dig the pond 1-2 feet deeper. This will enable you to overwinter the fish in the pond. Still, when you do want to build your pond, find someone in the area who specializes in ponds. Trust me, it was the best decision I ever made with my pond.
> 
> ...


Ah, I see. Yeah..I don't think there were any filters in that thing..there was a waterfall, but sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.. -_-

yeah, I'd definitely have to dig it deep..it gets soo freaking cold here -_- snowing right now actually. 

I did-once! I saw one that was even more than that! but it sure was purdy..

I'd get a baby and watch it grow  I looove watching things grow  like Mr.Bubbles was pretty small when I got him, now he's 2.5inches (give or take, he won't be still!)!



Mavi said:


> Thekoimaiden- I had never heard the story of hanako before, but I read a fact somewhere that the oldest documented koi lived to be 246!
> And if you were wondering, we do generally have to be careful because it does get quite cold and since we live right on lake Ontario the temperatures fluctuate even more!
> Id also love to show you some pictures but I've never actually taken any, ill take some in the summer when my pond isn't covered  ill show you my fishie friends
> The reason I want more koi is because I want to watch them grow up  so I would probably get some between 4 and 6 inches. Also that way I won't really know what they're colours will turn out to be it'll be a surprise  it will also help with costs.
> ...


Woah. Okay 


Tappy4me said:


> I love Koi. When I have a place of my own, I'd love to have a koi pond! I've really fallen in love with those long finned ones. (I don't know what they're called...I saw one in a pet store the other day. He and 3 other Koi were in a pond in the front of the store. He was solid white and just gorgeous!)


Ooh that sounds awesome


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Duck weed icks me out a bit. It makes me think of green dirt 

That's true, they do live in mud ponds in the wild after all! Maybe they have a predator in the mud ponds with longs finger-like things? I have no idea


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

The Lochness Monster? > 
Lol jk. 
That's so cool you can hand feed koi! I'd probably freak if I let one touch my fingers xD I love my fish to death, but, I don't wanna touch them D:


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Haha, don't tell them that! 
I think the texture of fish is beautiful  it's smooth and cold, yet soft. When you touch them you can really tell how aware they are. It's so cool how they can swim within a millimeter of you. Fascinating!


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I love hand-feeding my fish. I hand feed my koi all the time. I would hand feed my bettas but they bite. A lot. Hard. But I did get some other koi to eat from my hands. There is a koi/goldfish pond at my college. Whenever I felt homesick I would go sit my the pond and feed the koi. Eventually they recognized me. (I don't think they were fed regularly.) Eventually I got the largest koi, a big yellow ogon, to eat bits of bread from my fingers. ^-^ Only took 3 years... 

I think fish feel awesome. Like snakes and lizards (not spiky ones, tho). I just worry when I touch fish because I know that the oils on my hands damage their slime coats. So I try my best not to ever touch my fish. I'd rather have and handle a snake. 

Reminds me of a funny story when I was building my pond. Ever heard of a worm snake? Neither had I until I dug one up when digging my pond. I thought it was a large earthworm. I snagged up the little guy and plopped him in some dirt. I asked my biology teacher (who is also president of my state herpetology society), and he informed me it was an eastern worm snake! (It has picture for those who don't like snakes.) I kept him in a kritter keeper for about a week, but he died.  I must have injured him by accident. I felt so bad. But on the other hand, I found my favorite species of snake!


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

You might have hit him with your shovel.

There slime coats are. Something im conscious of. I have a "no sunscreen" policy around and in the pond. Especially when feeding, if it's on your hands and they ingest some? Yikes!


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

Mavi said:


> Haha, don't tell them that!
> I think the texture of fish is beautiful  it's smooth and cold, yet soft. When you touch them you can really tell how aware they are. It's so cool how they can swim within a millimeter of you. Fascinating!


Hmm...maybe I would touch one..I'd probably scream, but it'd be cool..



thekoimaiden said:


> I love hand-feeding my fish. I hand feed my koi all the time. I would hand feed my bettas but they bite. A lot. Hard. But I did get some other koi to eat from my hands. There is a koi/goldfish pond at my college. Whenever I felt homesick I would go sit my the pond and feed the koi. Eventually they recognized me. (I don't think they were fed regularly.) Eventually I got the largest koi, a big yellow ogon, to eat bits of bread from my fingers. ^-^ Only took 3 years...
> 
> I think fish feel awesome. Like snakes and lizards (not spiky ones, tho). I just worry when I touch fish because I know that the oils on my hands damage their slime coats. So I try my best not to ever touch my fish. I'd rather have and handle a snake.
> 
> Reminds me of a funny story when I was building my pond. Ever heard of a worm snake? Neither had I until I dug one up when digging my pond. I thought it was a large earthworm. I snagged up the little guy and plopped him in some dirt. I asked my biology teacher (who is also president of my state herpetology society), and he informed me it was an eastern worm snake! (It has picture for those who don't like snakes.) I kept him in a kritter keeper for about a week, but he died.  I must have injured him by accident. I felt so bad. But on the other hand, I found my favorite species of snake!


That's cool they let you hand feed them  Yeah..I'm not going to try and get Mr. Bubbles to eat food from my hand xD If he bit me..I would probably scream so loud you could hear me. xD

Oi, better not show my Grandma that. If she knew a snake looked like a worm (her two biggest fears are snakes and worms) she would probably start crying. xD



Mavi said:


> You might have hit him with your shovel.
> 
> There slime coats are. Something im conscious of. I have a "no sunscreen" policy around and in the pond. Especially when feeding, if it's on your hands and they ingest some? Yikes!


Yeah, I'd be worried about that too. Oh God, that would NOT be good!

What are you guy's favorite colored Koi? I know there's a lot of different ones.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Mavi said:


> You might have hit him with your shovel.
> 
> There slime coats are. Something im conscious of. I have a "no sunscreen" policy around and in the pond. Especially when feeding, if it's on your hands and they ingest some? Yikes!


Good rule. I've got a no-anything on hands near pond. Heck I barely even let anyone else touch my pond water aside from me. I have a pair of boots that I use solely for the pond so as to insure no cross-contamination from the surrounding streams. 

I'm afraid that I did hit the little guy with a shovel. At least I made his last days better. He probably would have been eaten alive if I let him go. 



Zappity said:


> -snip-
> That's cool they let you hand feed them  Yeah..I'm not going to try and get Mr. Bubbles to eat food from my hand xD If he bit me..I would probably scream so loud you could hear me. xD
> 
> Oi, better not show my Grandma that. If she knew a snake looked like a worm (her two biggest fears are snakes and worms) she would probably start crying. xD


I love hand-feeding my fish. I think it makes for the best bonding activity you can do with a fish. 

Oh wow. Better not even tell your grandmother about that snake. I think I would like to have one as a pet, tho. They're sooo cute ^-^ 



Zappity said:


> What are you guy's favorite colored Koi? I know there's a lot of different ones.


That is a truly hard question. There is something noble about the kohaku; it really does have a nice, traditional allure. Tanchos are also really striking. But I'd have to say my favorites are the bekko and the utsuri. Matsuba is a close second, tho.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I am so jealous of you guys. I would love a koi pond one day, but setting up a pond is so expensive.


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> Good rule. I've got a no-anything on hands near pond. Heck I barely even let anyone else touch my pond water aside from me. I have a pair of boots that I use solely for the pond so as to insure no cross-contamination from the surrounding streams.
> 
> I'm afraid that I did hit the little guy with a shovel. At least I made his last days better. He probably would have been eaten alive if I let him go.
> 
> ...



I'd probably be paranoid about anyone even walking by my pond xD I'd have a TON of no sunscreen or lotion rules xD

Cool  Those are all really pretty! I can't decide..but my fave would prob be the Utsuri Mono, then the Showa, and then the Goshiki or Asagi.


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm a stickler for the more common Sanke and Showa koi. Especially the tancho sanke.
I like the utsuri and bekko too.
I also like the ai goromo, because you can get some really interesting burgundies.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Bombalurina said:


> I am so jealous of you guys. I would love a koi pond one day, but setting up a pond is so expensive.


It was crazy expensive. Like buying a car expensive. It's really a project best delayed until you have a strong financial base. I know I'll have to delay my second pond until I'm in my 40's (depending on what kinds of jobs I can land and where I'm living). 

I also like ginrin koi. The shiny scaled ones. They really spice up the monocolor koi. I would love to have a ginrin chagoi. Maybe even a ginrin yellow or orange ogon.


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

.....good or bad car?  I love koi, but it's my dads house, and he doesn't want one. And we have a dog. And there are a couple of herons and boatloads of foxes.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> It was crazy expensive. Like buying a car expensive. It's really a project best delayed until you have a strong financial base. I know I'll have to delay my second pond until I'm in my 40's (depending on what kinds of jobs I can land and where I'm living).
> 
> I also like ginrin koi. The shiny scaled ones. They really spice up the monocolor koi. I would love to have a ginrin chagoi. Maybe even a ginrin yellow or orange ogon.


I'll take the pond. I can always use public transport.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

diablo13 said:


> .....good or bad car?  I love koi, but it's my dads house, and he doesn't want one. And we have a dog. And there are a couple of herons and boatloads of foxes.


A decent used car. Some ponds cost as much as new car. Some koi cost more than a Mercedes! 

I've got two dogs, but they're both well trained. They know the pond is off limits. I've also seen a few neighborhood cats come poking around, but some of my koi are as large a house-cat. Herons and fox can be a bit of a problem, but if you build your pond under plenty of canopy cover herons won't come around. The dogs also do a good job of keeping fox, raccoon, and mink from coming around. Otters would be a problem, but they aren't found where I am. 



Bombalurina said:


> I'll take the pond. I can always use public transport.


lol! I did the same thing. I got a pond instead of a car for my high school graduation. Now if only the rail system were better in the US...


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> A decent used car. Some ponds cost as much as new car. Some koi cost more than a Mercedes!
> 
> I've got two dogs, but they're both well trained. They know the pond is off limits. I've also seen a few neighborhood cats come poking around, but some of my koi are as large a house-cat. Herons and fox can be a bit of a problem, but if you build your pond under plenty of canopy cover herons won't come around. The dogs also do a good job of keeping fox, raccoon, and mink from coming around. Otters would be a problem, but they aren't found where I am.
> 
> ...


Oh my God, it takes that much to build a pond?! O_O yeah...I won't be getting a pond for at least 20 years xP 
I have two Chihuahuas, but they're seniors and don't wanna go outside much anymore. c:
Are Herons bad for a pond? Cause I've seen them flying by my house before in the spring and in the fall. Raccoons are always lurking around..we had a family in our roof last year and the year before, we found 6 babies around our yard and in our car. >_< Foxes and Opossums, hawks and owls are also around...and the stray cats are always lurking.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Zappity said:


> Oh my God, it takes that much to build a pond?! O_O yeah...I won't be getting a pond for at least 20 years xP
> I have two Chihuahuas, but they're seniors and don't wanna go outside much anymore. c:
> Are Herons bad for a pond? Cause I've seen them flying by my house before in the spring and in the fall. Raccoons are always lurking around..we had a family in our roof last year and the year before, we found 6 babies around our yard and in our car. >_< Foxes and Opossums, hawks and owls are also around...and the stray cats are always lurking.


The next pond design that I'm planning is going to expensive and cover about an acre total (water surface won't be that big, but the stream and waterfall and pond combined is going to be huge!). So it will be really really expensive. The 4000 gal installation I have was about high-schooler-used-car quality expensive. It will be cheaper if you do it yourself, but it won't look as nice or function as well. 

Herons can cause a problem as they will try to pick up your koi. They can succeed with the smaller fish, but often times they will just stab the older, larger koi, realize they can't pick it up, and leave it to die. Owls are probably not as much of a menace because koi sleep at the bottom of a pond. Foxes can also try to steal a fish and so will raccoons. I have two black labs, so they do a pretty good job of keeping everything away. Also not having sloped sides helps keep critters out. 

I did encounter a man whose koi were being eaten by otter and minks when I lived in the mountains. But his pond was more like a fishing pond that he added a few koi to instead of a koi pond. He had some grass carp in it that were literally half my size or larger (I'm about 5ft tall). The guys were joking that "they were going to measure the grass carp in terms of Izzy. Like 'oh I caught a fish that was 1.5 Izzys!'"


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## Mavi (Dec 28, 2011)

Diablo13, dogs are actually generally a positive things to have around ponds because they will peein your backyard and mark their territory which will actually protect your fish from potential predators.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

http://koi-pearl.com/EN/index.php# Woah, this thing is crazy! It floats and water goes up into the 'pearl' and allows the fish to swim up into it safely and get back out safely. Kinda neat! Weird, but neat!


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## Zappity (Oct 15, 2011)

purplemuffin said:


> http://koi-pearl.com/EN/index.php# Woah, this thing is crazy! It floats and water goes up into the 'pearl' and allows the fish to swim up into it safely and get back out safely. Kinda neat! Weird, but neat!


That's freaking AWESOME! O_O Waant.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

purplemuffin said:


> Koi Pearl – Da taucht Freude auf! Woah, this thing is crazy! It floats and water goes up into the 'pearl' and allows the fish to swim up into it safely and get back out safely. Kinda neat! Weird, but neat!


I've seen that before online! Never in person. I think the website even has video of koi swimming into it. I think it would be a neat novelty, but I wouldn't want it in my pond. I like the really natural feel to my pond (and the pond I'm planning in the future), and I feel that would remove a lot of the naturalism (even if it is all man-made). lol, man-made nature


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You can easily do it yourself with a large bowl or vase, if the urge takes you.


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