# d'Artagnan's fin rot won't go away!



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

Hello! My lovely halfmoon (not sure what color), d'Artagnan, has been suffering from massive tail rot and fin loss for weeks. It's been slowly going away (almost a month now) and hasn't reach his body yet, but he's lost at least 1-1.5cm of fins.

Should I start medicating him? It's frustrating treating his fins rot for so long when a lot of people write online that it's a very treatable disease. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated! I would love to see his fins grow back so he can swim in his full glory again!

Housing
*What size is your tank?* 2.5 gal Aqueon MiniBow
*What temperature is your tank?* Room temperature
*Does your tank have a filter?* Aqueon MiniBow
*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?* No
*Is your tank heated?* I think the heater [Marineland Stealth] is broken
*What tank mates does your betta fish live with?* N/A

Food
*What type of food do you feed your betta fish?* Hikari Gold Pellets
*How often do you feed your betta fish?* 3 pellets morning & night = 6

Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change?* Every evening
*What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?* 20%
*What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?* Aqueon Water conditioner, Stress Coat, Aquarium Salt

[/u]Water Parameters[/u]
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

*Ammonia:* 0
*Nitrite:* 0
*Nitrate:* 0.10
*pH:* 7.8
*Hardness:* 250
*Alkalinity:* 180

Symptoms and Treatment
*How has your betta fish's appearance changed?* Fins with red tips; fraying usually occurs near red tips (ammonia burns?). No black or brown ends where the fins rot. His fins started to get a wrinkled look too. They used to be smooth before.

*How has your betta fish's behavior changed?* 
*When did you start noticing the symptoms?* The day after I moved him out of his 2.5gal into a new (uncycled) 10 gallon tank with the AquaClear 50. His fins were torn to shreds and tips were bloody. I have a feeling the filter was too strong and ripped off his fins. Also, the tank was not completely cycled, so the tank may have been experiencing ammonia or nitrite spikes. He was usually eager to eat, even during Betta Revive medications. Now it takes him a little extra longer to figure out his food is floating (possibly from the live plants blocking his view). He's still eating eagerly. He used to flare normally. Since I moved his 2.5 gal back home with me (used to be at my boyfriend's), he started flaring a lot. Sometimes around two minutes or so. It seemed like a long time. Maybe he was stressed? He sleeps on the gravel instead of on the leaves or my plants.. possibly because he doesn't have any available hiding places? When he swims, I can't tell if he's swimming erratically or just excited. He swims back and forth in the front of the tank a lot. Very sociable and is always curious and swims around the front of the tank whenever he sees people nearby. He's been starting to lay on the tank bottom more often now, but it's more noticeable when he's trying to sleep at night. He seems normal for the most part, minus the erratic swimming. It's like he thinks something's after him. I'm not sure, but he might be tail biting. I think I saw him slowly creep up on his tail and try to bite it, but does tail biting come with red bloody tips? Or is the red tip from ammonia burn due to the exposed fin?

*Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?* Yes, for a few weeks now. I moved him to a quarantine tank (0.25 gal) right after I noticed his fin rot. Treated him with Betta Revive for 2 days, but read varying articles so I switched him to an aquarium salt regimen and put him back in his old 2.5 gal to make him feel happy. His fin tips became red again after a couple days and the previous tattered fins completely fell off. Since the salt didn't work, I put him back on the Betta Revive in the 0.25 gal quarantine tank for a week. It's been over a week and his fins have been getting red at the tips on and off. It seems like I've been treating him for almost a month now.

*Does your fish have any history of being ill?* No. Cardinal Tetras were added to the 10 gallon tank after I changed the filter to an AquaClear 20. Three of them died, probably from poor acclimation, but the tank not fully cycled might also be a culprit.

*How old is your fish (approximately)?* Had him around 2 months, but he seems fully grown.

































In the pics above and below, I noticed this more in white bettas. Is it normal to see that red line? Is it a vein or artery? It's also visible on his body next to the base of his caudal fin.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi and welcome to the forum.  I'm sorry your guy is having such problems with fin rot. His tail does look a mess, poor thing.

First I'd say that there's a distinct possibility that d'Artagnan is biting his own fins and swimming erratically because fin rot can be very painful. He may be trying to bite off the affected parts himself. 

As for the salt not working, sometimes the only way for fin rot to get better is for the affected parts to fall off (or get bitten off). If you feel comfortable with the idea, you can try salt again, adding 1 tsp per gallon. If you have live plants, however, I'd suggest you put d'Artagnan in a small hospital container because salt can cause your plants to die or melt. 

Change at least 50% of his water every evening while he is battling his fin rot, as clean water is one of the best ways to fight it. 

If you don't want to use salt, it may be time to try a medication like Maracyn. Again, put him into his own hospital tank for treatment. A 1g container is good for this as it makes measuring meds easy. 

Oh, and if you can, you're going to want to get a heater for your tank. Bettas are tropical fish and thrive in warm waters - 78-80 degrees farenheit is ideal for them. 

As for the red line . . . in the pics I see a red line running horizontally from the base of his caudal to his head. This is his lateral line and all fish have it. This is a line of nerves and sensors in their body that helps them get around. If you've ever wondered why your fish never hit the glass of their tank, it's the lateral line that helps them. Fish can survive with only their lateral line. There are the blind cave tetras who have no eyes because they live in complete darkness; these fish use their lateral line to get around and can be pretty amazing to watch in a tank because you'd never know they couldn't see if they didn't have a lack of eyes. The vertical line at the very base of his caudal is probably a part of the lateral line, directing movement of his tail.


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

Hello! Thank you, Sakura, for your very informative response!

I did a 50% water change for his tank and added Melafix and Pimafix to hopefully help him. I will be leaving him on the medication for the 7 days it has listed on the bottle.

He's very eager to eat! Also, when I opened up the hood, the filter was pushing small bubbles around. He must have been building a small bubble nest. 

I hope the treatment works. I read a few reviews and there have been good results with Melafix/Pimafix combo.

He's still swimming around erratically. Is he fine without hiding places? He has a plant ring and some plants, but not enough for him to hide under.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad to hear he's still got an appetite. Bettas who don't eat are sick bettas indeed. And it's good he's bubblenesting, too. :-D I wouldn't have expected that after seeing the blood on his tail. I've never actually seen blood on a betta's tail before. 

Hmm. If you have an old coffee mug, you can clean it with warm water and put it in the tank on its side. Or use a clean piece of PVC (sprinkler) pipe. Both of those work well as hiding spots. Or if you want, you can get a decoration cave at the pet store. He'll be fine without hiding places but he might be a little more at ease if he did have one. 

He may continue to swim just a bit erratically as long as his tail is painful. It's probably like us humans trying to walk on a sprained ankle. I hope the meds work for him and fast. He's cute.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Melafix will not treat/berid the fish of his rot, though use it once the rot has gone for better healing.

try upping the dose of salt to a much more aggressive level, 2-3 tsp/gallon is fine. Do much the same as above, but add in the higher amount of salt in over the course of a half hour or so.

If it just plain wont go away, I suggest maracyn 2 (must be 2) or* jungle fungus eliminator.
Both have gram negative antibiotics, which is what causes fin rot. I have recently needed to use these when my fish wasn't responding to the higher salt treatments.

try using the salt first, though. Keep the lights low, and the water in the 76-78° range.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, Pew. Advice that comes from experience is always good.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

:3 !!!
I do think its rot though....biting looks like little U Shapes.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> :3 !!!
> I do think its rot though....biting looks like little U Shapes.


Yeah and so far, I haven't heard of anyone posting about a tailbiter so bad he bleeds.


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

I really hope the Melafix/Pimafix combo works. There were a lot of good reviews on it & my friend who's obsessed with fish (has 8 tanks, breeds fish & grows plants) uses it to treat all his fish.

As for upping the dose of the aquarium salt, whenever I add it to the water (dissolved in dechlorinated water), d'Artagnan twitches a lot. It looks like he has head spasms from it. It kind of scares me.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I know how you feel about the salt. I just started a new girl in it for her beat-up fins and all of a sudden, she's clamped up all the time. Her tail is clamped so tight she looks like a swordtail. I'm trying it one more day, then calling it quits. She never clamped up when there was no salt, which is unusual for a new fish.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Twitching may be a sign that he's reacting to it... Is he itchy, like, when you add it, does he rub against the sides of the tank/decor?

Melafix WILL NOT work, I promise. Tea Tree Oil (melcaula) does NOT treat fin rot :'( It does, however, provide a good antiseptic for when the fins regrow.

The primafix (I think?) hits gram-neg bacteria, but if this has been going on for so long, I think youre gonna need something stronger than that. Sometimes when it gets bad you need to SMACK it as hard as you can in one shot to get rid of it. I waited too long and messed around with too weak of medicines and this is what happened to dear little Balthier.. :'c








Sorry its huge.

If youre gonna medicate without trying/using salt, then you might as well not mess around!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Awww, poor Baller! And his fins were so gorgeous too.  And yet, with those gills, he still looks like he's grinning happily away. Man, I love your avatar, Pew. :-D It's one of my favs.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

;D <3 He's better now, even! Hit him with MaracynI and II and now have him on Jungle fungus clear and he's right as rain. I dont suggest using meds of that power in tandem, but this was srs bsns, even I was stumped.

Nice re-growth even! <3

OP, my fish's fins looked just like yours before becoming that picture!


----------



## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Pew, I thought Balthier was a DBT. o-o


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

He's an HMDBT, aka It-looks-so-much-like-an-HM-hes-not-even-dbt -___-'

Well, with all that damage he looks it, but normally he's mostly HM, almost OHM


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so glad Baller's on the mend. :-D Yay! I know you were really worried about him.


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

Hi Pew! He only twitched with aquarium salt when I didn't pre-dissolve it. He'd swim up to it to check it out and his head would twitch & he'd just swim away from it, but he wouldn't rub up against things. d'Artagnan's erratic swimming has been going on for a while. He's always swimming near the sides of the tanks and rests on the gravel even though it's not night time for him to sleep.

My boyfriend took these pictures to a fish expert in San Francisco since he's home for the week (I'm in SoCal) & the fish expert said my fish has an internal bacterial infection, so he got some meds for my fish. The fish expert said it was good that we caught it before it got any worse. The only thing is, he won't be back until Sunday.

Also, I was looking at the pictures again and noticed in the last two pics that his head and the top part of his body (above the lateral line) seems to be off yellow in color? Maybe it was the lighting since I shot the pictures late at night? The only lighting was the incandescent lights from my ceiling fan & those give off yellow. I know d'Artagnan is opaque, so it might be hard to tell if he has either Velvet or Ich. Could it be Velvet? I can't tell if he's "scratching" himself on things, but he does seem to be swimming next to the glass a lot.

I noticed he doesn't flare anymore, but he still eats really quickly. I'm going to buy Maracyn II tomorrow.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You may need to use a flashlight to spy velvet, especially on such a pale gold/apricot betta. Do you know what ich looks like? Velvet looks similar but with yellow spots instead. Ich makes your fish look like he's been sprinkled liberally with sea salt. Velvet makes them look like they've been sprinkled with sand or gold dust. And like ich, the spots aren't just located in one area - they're all over the place. 

Maybe try taping some black paper to the back of his tank and looking at him with a flashlight when he's next to it? I don't know. Velvet is hard to see on pale fish. Good luck!


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

d'Artagnan seems to be doing well today! He was very eager to eat and when I opened up the tank hood to give him his daily Melafix/Pimafix medication, he had a good-sized bubble nest all set up! He also started flaring again. I haven't seen him do that in a few days.

Some concerns, though.

1. I noticed he has red streaking on the bottom tips of the fins that he flares with. Should I be concerned?

2. He seems to have slight swelling in his lower body beneath the lateral line. It's localized where his caudal/tail and anal fins meet. His fins aren't raised, so thankfully this rules out Dropsy.

Doing research on it, but if you have any ideas, please let me know!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad to hear D'artagnan is doing better. Goods news is always welcome.  About his fins. Does the red look like it's . . . how to put it . . . angry or swollen? Or does it look like it might be natural coloring? Just curious. Angry/swollen would be possible fin rot. Either way, the meds will stave off any infection, I think. 

My guy Sherman has a slight bump in that area too and it's never bothered him. I wonder if that's where the, er, sperm is stored?


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

Ah I see. That's good news then!

Boyfriend's coming back tomorrow with the meds, so hopefully d'Artagnan will be all healed up after we start medicating him.  The fish guru in NorCal gave him a medicine called Life Bearer. Apparently it's really strong.

He's super active today. It's almost as if he has nothing wrong with him. He's also still bubble nesting. Just his tail is showing red again. I'm wondering if his filter has carbon in it? It's a Aqueon MiniBow filter. I might need to research on it.

[edit]

Just kidding. The filter has carbon in it so I'm sure it's been removing the Melafix & Pimafix. Should I start him on it now? Or should I just wait for my boyfriend to get back with the Life Bearer tomorrow? I feel like such a noob! XD


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

My brain fuzzed out. What are you wanting to start him on? The Melafix/Pimafix or . . . sorry, all I'm getting in my brain is static. :roll: Good he's active and bubblenesting. I'm sure you'll get him all spiffed up soon with the medicine your boyfriend is bringing back.


----------



## Ahiko (Jun 14, 2011)

It's okay! I feel like my brain disappears when it's summer. 

I've been medicating d'Artagnan with Melafix/Pimafix for the past 4 days not knowing that there was activated carbon in the Aqueon filter. I was wondering if I should stop medicating & just wait for my boyfriend to come back tomorrow? He got a medication called Life Bearer from a fish guru in San Francisco.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, probably should halt the melamix/pimafix. Give him a little break before you bring out the big guns. And obviously, remove the carbon. ;-)


----------

