# Jade x Vada: 2nd attempt



## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

As u all know, I tried spawning this pair about 3wks ago, but she released her eggs prematurely in the float cup, b4 I ever got the chance 2 introduce them. I reconditioned them over the last 2wks, and am hoping for better results this go-round. Being a 1st time breeder, I have concerns about their behavior. I floated her cup in spawn tank for about 15-20 min this morning, then dumped her in. At first they shied away from eachother, but now all he is doing is chasing her around like there's no 2morrow. I know that chasing is part of the courtship process, but how long does this take? He's not actually nipping her, but every time she stops to rest, it's under the bubble nest... And the chase is on. After 4hrs, she still won't let him catch & embrace her. Is this normal???


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

My bettas did a similar thing. I'm new to this as well. It can vary.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

what you did was bad...females should NEVER be put with a male before letting them get to know each other. Sure they may have seen each other before, that doesnt mean just put her in. Im not judging though, im into my second year of breeding out of 7 years of fish keeping. My friend has been breeding them for 10+ years, and i can tell you now even the experienced learn new things very often. I would suggest taking her out asap before he kills her. They need to be able to see each other, but separated. Keep them like that for at LEAST 1 day. 2 at most (which is recommended) then release her. Spawning will commence the day after or 2 days after her release. But again, i'd suggest using another female as this one may be carrying injuries. From what i can tell, only professional breeders put a female in after less than a day because they know what to look for, or because the female was very ready, and eager and jumped out herself.


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## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

i usually allow the female to hang out in her protective enclosure for about a day before releasing her.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Does the female have hidey places? Give them a few days, just keep an eye on your girl. 

The fact that she keeps checking out the nest means she probably quite keen. The male is chasing her away because his nest isnt ready for her yet.
When the male starts trying to lead her to the nest by dancing next to her then speeding off towards it, then he is ready. 

Youll know a spawn will happen soon when you see him darting to the nest and her following behind him. Just be patient, most spawns take a few days of chasing and beating before the magic happens :-D But if its been over 3 days and no progress Id recondition and try again another time.

Also make sure theres a lid on the tank, females like to jump to avoid the male


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

sharkettelaw1 said:


> what you did was bad...females should NEVER be put with a male before letting them get to know each other. Sure they may have seen each other before, that doesnt mean just put her in. Im not judging though, im into my second year of breeding out of 7 years of fish keeping. My friend has been breeding them for 10+ years, and i can tell you now even the experienced learn new things very often. I would suggest taking her out asap before he kills her. They need to be able to see each other, but separated. Keep them like that for at LEAST 1 day. 2 at most (which is recommended) then release her. Spawning will commence the day after or 2 days after her release. But again, i'd suggest using another female as this one may be carrying injuries. From what i can tell, only professional breeders put a female in after less than a day because they know what to look for, or because the female was very ready, and eager and jumped out herself.


They have been properly conditioned, and separate for several days. On my 1st attempt, I did keep them apart (she was in a float cup) for a couple days, and she released her eggs INSIDE the cup, before I had a chance to rease her. Others advised to re-condition the pair after her premature egg release, and try placing her in the tank directly, which is what I did. They have had ample courtship beside eachother several days prior, and he's NOT harming her, just chasing, which I know is part of courtship. My question was how long does this phase last b4 they finally embrace, not whether I did the right thing by putting her in with him.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

trilobite said:


> Does the female have hidey places? Give them a few days, just keep an eye on your girl.
> 
> The fact that she keeps checking out the nest means she probably quite keen. The male is chasing her away because his nest isnt ready for her yet.
> When the male starts trying to lead her to the nest by dancing next to her then speeding off towards it, then he is ready.
> ...


She does have plenty of hiding spots, and there is a lid in place ;-) 
They have only been 2gether since about 9:30 this morning, so I suppose I'll sit back and wait 4 the magic! Lol... Thx Trilobite


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

and i told you how long it takes. Between 1 - 2 days. With some people, its sometimes on the third day. My female is also properly conditioned, but never spawned because she didnt know him and she was kept within sight of him, go figure.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

sharkettelaw1 said:


> and i told you how long it takes. Between 1 - 2 days. With some people, its sometimes on the third day. My female is also properly conditioned, but never spawned because she didnt know him and she was kept within sight of him, go figure.


Yes, I know u said from 1-3 days, thank u. They had "known" eachother previously, but the separate/together method had only caused her to release all her eggs in the cup, which is why I elected to skip the look-but-don't-touch step this time around. She is already showing submissive posturing, and as I mentioned b4, he's not nipping at, just chasing her. He seems content to share the tank, but they are both young fish, and have never been spawned before.... This time around, his bubble nest is very impressive... I guess we'll wait & see


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

ah! So she released her eggs from the excitement. If she's already showing the signs of submission, then they may well spawn early in the morning - good luck!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

sharkettelaw1 said:


> what you did was bad...females should NEVER be put with a male before letting them get to know each other. Sure they may have seen each other before, that doesnt mean just put her in. Im not judging though, im into my second year of breeding out of 7 years of fish keeping. My friend has been breeding them for 10+ years, and i can tell you now even the experienced learn new things very often. I would suggest taking her out asap before he kills her. They need to be able to see each other, but separated. Keep them like that for at LEAST 1 day. 2 at most (which is recommended) then release her. Spawning will commence the day after or 2 days after her release. But again, i'd suggest using another female as this one may be carrying injuries. From what i can tell, only professional breeders put a female in after less than a day because they know what to look for, or because the female was very ready, and eager and jumped out herself.


Most of the time my males are housed in the breeding tank. I NEVER introduce the pair prior to breeding unless the female is afraid or not used to the male's colors (often light colored females prefers light colored males). OR I get her used to the color by flaring her to a female of the male's color.

I usually just release a female in the male's tank OR I release both at the same time (if using a different tank).

The key is *"breeding mode" *- if both are in breeding mode, they will spawn. Virgins may take 3 days, specially if there are lots of hide outs. But sometimes they can take up to 1 week flirting and chasing, often with biting . . . until they are ready to embrace.

My most recent spawn - a male I thought to be a female;
a 6 month old male PK that looks like a female. He had a white spot. He is light colored so I couldn't see if he was showing breeding bars or not. His gills didn't open 90*. Big mid section and small fins compared to his siblings. He showed all signs of being female but always go into fighting mode when I try to breed him. I took a chance and paired him with a female - no introduction. They just met/saw each other for the first time. In half an hour (no nest) they started to embrace (my fastest spawn).


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Well..... Jade & Vada have spawned, I think!! We never actually witnessed an embrace, but it appears there are some eggs I. The area of his now destroyed bubble nest (there are remnants still). He is very passive now, and she still seems full of eggs... I expected her 2 have fin damage, but HE is the one who looks like he's been thru a war zone, while other than a small tear in her caudal fin, she's looking great!! I'm going 2 leave them 2gether 4 a bit longer 2 see if they embrace again. Hopefully we'll see fry within the week!! :-D


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

That's great.

I have a spawn log as well.

Please post photos when you get the chance. Should be an interesting spawn.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm anxious 2 see the results as well ;-) Color especially!! I'm sure they will be combtails.... But with his green/pink & her purple multi, they should be pretty! My hubby is actually the one who suggested this pairing, cuz after Poisson passed, I was unsure who would b a good mate. I was originally going 2 pair her with my VT, Merlin, since he's purple, but my hubby said that would've been 2 generic & what we r really going for is color.... With show-type fin structure becoming the focus eventually. I'm excited 2 see the outcome!!


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Interesting... Usually, the end results of mixing a HM with a CT is a half sun. 

My betta's offspring will be delta/veiltail mixes. Female is turquoise and the male is a dragon with butterfly markings. (there's photos and more details in my spawn log, Family matters).

Checked out the photos of Jade and Vada...interesting color combination.

I can relate to being nervous and excited though.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Question... If her white body has small purple speckles on varied scales, does this mean she has either piebald or marble genetics? She came from Petsmart (segrest farms) & has always looked this way, w/ no darkening or fading. Her head & face are solid white, pectoral fins clear w/ purple specks, her ventrals are deep magenta, her anal & dorsal fins are purple fading 2 whitish, with her caudal is purple w/ tip having a magenta fringe... Any thoughts?


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Update: We have tons of eggs.... I'm getting ready 2 pull her shortly, but right now they are still trying 2 embrace. She has eaten a few eggs as they sink (b4 he can round them all up) but 4 the most part, I'm calling this a success!!! Yay!!! I will start posting a spawn log in the proper category once I pull her


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

TealHoundogg said:


> Interesting... Usually, the end results of mixing a HM with a CT is a half sun.
> 
> My betta's offspring will be delta/veiltail mixes. Female is turquoise and the male is a dragon with butterfly markings. (there's photos and more details in my spawn log, Family matters).
> 
> ...


Isn't comb-tail & half sun the same thing? 
As 4 this odd color combo, it was hubby's idea. Bold color is what he feels we should focus on 1st... Funny thing is, he never showed real interest in my bettas til I started researching & taking steps 2 breed them ;-P 
Poor Jade looks so beat up, he's nearly unrecognizable as the same fish! His appearance doesn't seem 2 phase him tho... He's circling beneath his prize, catching & replacing falling eggs to what's left of the nest (or surface, lol). What happens to the ones he misses, which fell 2 tank bottom? Do they still hatch?


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Combtail is a cross between a veiltail and a crowntail.

Example of a combtail

http://www.petadvice.com.au/images/combtail1.jpg


Here's a half sun:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llezyoUhqX1qe2rwfo1_400.jpg

Not sure if the eggs he misses will hatch. I've read about some bettas that have bred without a nest or ones that were hatched artificially without being cared for by their Dad. Indjo would be one person you could ask about genetics in terms of what colors or fins your bettas' offspring might end up with.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

Thx TealHoundogg! I see the difference now ;-)
The 2 tail types always confused me... Lol


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

You're welcome.

One thing about half suns and combtails is they aren't seen in Pet stores. Yesterday for the first time I saw a rose tail betta at Petco and he was rather handsome.

Half suns have spikes on their tails, sort of like a crowntail but it's wide like a half moon.

For example a cross between my own bettas a Delta and a Veiltail, would probably be most veiltails like their mother and possibly a few roundtails which is a variation. Veiltails aren't even recognized at betta shows anymore because they've been overbred for the Pet trade. A halfmoon plakat(HMPK) is a cross between a halfmoon betta and a plakat.

Mixed bettas usually aren't seen that much in places like Petco and Petsmart. 

Overall, they have a unique look and interesting genes.

You plan on keeping any of the fry?

I'm most likely keeping a female from my spawn.


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## PoissonsMom (Feb 11, 2014)

I do plan on keeping atleast 2 females & 1 male from this spawn. We have one pet store nearby (learned of them this evening) that apparently breeds bettas, which I plan on checking out in the near future ;-) 
I also have 2 local stores interested in buying fry from me, once do they found out Jade is a green/pink HM!


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## TealHoundogg (May 7, 2014)

Sounds good. I have an aquarium store owner who is interested in the fry from my bettas' spawn once they're old enough to leave home. One reason is because my male, Cole is a dragon betta. I'll probably keep one of his daughters.


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