# Furan-2 Dosage for Fin Tears in QT?



## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

My betta has a stubborn case of tattered fins—the ventral, tail and dorsal. The pectoral fins seem to be okay. I don't believe it's biting as all are still quite long. They seem to tear and curl, but there are also pinholes that are becoming quite large. The holes are starting to show some signs of rot but did not begin black. Could it also be melt at this point?

A local store suggested Furan-2 and gave me some small quarantine tanks. Does anyone have experience dosing such a small amount of water (since the Furan-2 packets are normally one per 10 gallons)? Should I be dosing the entire tank instead?

1. I want to make sure I'm not overdosing with Furan-2 in 1.5 cups of water, if I dose in the QT vs. the 10-gallon tank.

2. I also bought Prime to use in place of the Tetra AquaSafe Plus I currently have. Should I be using Stress Coat or StressGuard as well or is Prime enough?

3. I have Melafix I could use after dosing with Furan-2. Is this recommended as a follow-up to promote healing?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!



Housing: Tank
How many gallons is your tank? 10 gallons
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 80º F
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Omega One
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Two pellets, twice daily (four total)

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Admittedly not as often as I should. PWC every few weeks, added water after evaporation. 100% water change every few months.
What percentage of water did you change? 25%
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Vacuum
What additives do you use? Tetra AquaSafe Plus and SafeStart

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you.

Please note, he's been in a quarantine tank for a week so these numbers may be off! Apologies, I also only have specific numbers for ammonia and pH.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: Tested today and it was normal; apologies, I didn't think to ask for specific readings.
Nitrate: Tested today and it was normal; apologies, I didn't think to ask for specific readings.
pH: High, higher than 7.6 but this has always been the case.
Hardness (GH): Tested today and it was normal; apologies, I didn't think to ask for specific readings.
Alkalinity (KH): Tested today and it was normal; apologies, I didn't think to ask for specific readings.

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? This has been an on-and-off issue since I've had him for the past 21 months.
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? His dorsal, ventral and tail fins are tattered, torn and curling, with some pinholes that are growing. Rot is just setting in around the pin holes.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still active and begs for food.
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Yes, he's been in a quarantine tank with aquarium salt and daily 100% WCs for a week.
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? History of tattered fins/fin rot.
How long have you owned your Betta? Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Healthy when purchased; had him for 21 months Monday.


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

Hi fishyman23! 

The way I dose Furan 2 if it is the one packet to 10 gallon one, is to put the whole packet in a 1 gallon plastic water bottle with 10 cups of water. So 1 cup treats 1 gallon hospital tank or 1/2 cup treats .5 gallon HT or 2 cups treats a 2 gallon HT and so on...that way you know your boy is getting the correct dose. Oh I just saw that you have a 1.5 gallon tank so 1.5 cups would dose your tank correctly. It makes it so much easier to do it this way.

I also make sure to cap the treated water and keep it out of the light so that the medicine doesn't loose its potency for the next treatment. I hope this makes since and helps you to dose him correctly! 

I think that it would be a good idea to post pictures of his whole body so that some of our experts can get a better look at the whole fish. I believe you may want to add KanaPlex to his medicines but again you should post a picture that includes his whole body so someone else with more experience can help you.

Prime is always great to use. I have used Stress coat and seen improvement but I have no experience with Melafix so someone else can speak to that as I know there is controversy on this forum about it. 

I know that Indian Almond leaves are extremely helpful for fin regrowth and I personally used Rioobis Tea to add tannins to the tank which helps them relieve stress and promote healing.

I hope that your little guy gets better quickly!


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> Maintenance:
> Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Admittedly not as often as I should. PWC every few weeks, added water after evaporation. 100% water change every few months.


Heres the problem, Not enough water changes. You should be doing at least 25% a week, I prefer 50% a week.


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## cakes488 (Dec 2, 2015)

Yeah Nick is right...no matter how much you medicate fin rot's never going to get better without bumping up the water changes.


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Thank you for your help, firewood! I really appreciate the dosing information.

Nick and cakes: I do agree that I need to change the water more frequently, which is why I included the information. After digging into this issue more, I realized people were changing their water a lot more frequently than I'd thought was necessary with a filtered tank.


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Hi again to whoever sees my reply...

I'm on day two of dosing with Furan-2 in a hospital tank. It's a 4-cup tank, so I'm dosing with 1/4 C of medicine. I'm about to do the third dose but I'm really concerned about the tissue loss and the progression of fin rot.

I plan to do four doses, and then do a 100% WC and cleaning in the regular 10-gallon tank. I have Melafix to help promote healing and, as established in my initial post and last reply, will adhere to a much more frequent water change schedule. I'm just afraid I won't be able to get my betta back to good health.

*Can someone with experience using Furan-2 give me some insight into what to expect from treating with it? What should I use in the regular tank to promote healing and regrowth (if Melafix isn't a good enough solution)?*

Some background: Prior to a week-long aquarium salt treatment, my betta's fins were tattered but weren't showing signs of rot (that I could see). I figured the salt treatment would help to sterilize and stimulate regrowth, and though I did 100% DWCs, the fins kept getting worse. That's when I got the Furan-2. I was told the necrotic tissue would come away, but I'm concerned this is going to be too traumatic for my betta.

Thanks in advance for any help!

The best full-body pic I could get (showing extent of tearing):


A closer shot of the fin rot on the ventral, dorsal and tail fins:


Even closer up:


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

O Boy that is nasty fin rot! I wish that someone with more experience than I would take a look at these pictures of your boy because I am worried about what I see and would love for Lilnaugrim or bettasforeverrescue to take a look at your fish. Are there actually little white spots on his body or is that just the picture?

I used Furan 2 on my fish that had Columnaris and I didn't see fin rot that progressed as fast as this is. If it has not slowed down I would add Kanaplex to the treatment and retreat with Furan 2 at the same time. I truly hope that one of the Vet techs comes and gives you the best treatment for your Betta. If he were mine, I would slowly lower the temp in his tank to 74 degrees and put him in a darkened room to help slow down the bacteria to give the antibiotics and his system a chance to work on this bacteria. I know that some people would tell you not to lower the temperature but with bacterial infections the lower water temperature is helpful. You are still keeping the temp in the range for Bettas just the lower range to slow down bacterial growth.

Meanwhile hopefully mentioning Bettasforeverrescue or Lilnaugrim names will summon them to help you!!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My Betta-Senses were tingling!

I agree, fin rot! and I agree with what firewood has said so far for lowering the temperature. Bacteria _loooove_ hot temperatures so lowering it down to 70-74 if possible can help at least stunt their growth. It won't kill them, but it can help give you some time to treat your boy. Also, shut off any extra bubblers you may have going but keep the filter going; bacteria also love oxygen so by cutting off some of the oxygen (or raise the water line up so a filter doesn't splash in to turn up the oxygen level) to also stunt them. Thankfully our fish don't mind having a low oxygen environment; they're built for that! So those are some simple steps to start off with.

If you've already started with the Furan-2, keep going with it. I would advise to also buy KanaPlex by SeaChem online as well if you can. You can combine both Furan-2 and KanaPlex to create a stronger mixture; it won't harm your fish. You may notice your fish becomes a little more lethargic during treatment, that is normal. It happens even in humans; antibiotics are naturally hard on the system, you have to get worse before it gets better type of thing. Keep to the directions of Furan-2 and dose the KanaPlex when needed for one full round of both at the same time. You may have to give him a couple days off meds so he can recuperate a bit and go another round of both medications if you see no immediate improvements.

Some things you can do to keep your boy less stressed during and after treatment: keep the water dark. You can do this by keeping his lights off and throwing a towel or blanket over his tank. Adding a tannin source such as Indian Almond Leaf, Dried Oak Leaves, some driftwood pieces, or Rooibos tea (any brand) can help darken/stain the water which helps Betta's feel safer and calmer. Tannins also contain a minor anitbacterial property so it can aid in healing of the fin. Keep feeding him if he'll eat, alternatively you can soak his pellets in KanaPlex and feed them like that if he'll eat them, it will enter his system much quicker.

Feel free to ask any questions if I didn't explain something well enough!


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

Thank you Lilnaugrim for giving fisheyman23 the advice he needs for his lil guy.


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Thank you SO much for your quick responses, firewood and lilnaugrim! (Firewood, there aren't white spots... just the light being tricky! I thought about making note of that in my previous post... thank you for your concern!  )

I'm so nervous about how quickly the fin rot spread, especially with the DWCs, both with the aquarium salt and now Furan-2 treatments.

His hospital tank is actually a vase that's almost fully set inside his regular tank. It rests on top of a little cave decoration, so regular tank water doesn't contaminate the treatment water. I've done this to help keep the hospital tank heated, but (fortunately, as I've just found out per firewood) it's not overly warm... about 72-74º.

I'll try wrapping his tank in a towel to block even more natural daylight; his small LED light already has red paper over the light source to create a murky color. It's not a bright tank to begin with, as it's set far back from windows.

I plan on picking up KanaPlex and roobios today but I do have one question.

Because tonight will be day four of the Furan-2 dosing (and the recommended length of treatment), would you recommend I give him a rest from it for a few days and begin a KanaPlex-only cycle? (It looks like KanaPlex dosing is three 48-hour doses.) And of course, if there isn't great improvement after the KanaPlex dosing, perhaps a few days off and then another round of both...?

THANK YOU again for your help... I'm so grateful for this community! I haven't had fin rot advance this quickly before and am so worried! And thank you for reading through all my detailed background info.  I figured the more, the better, if it helps him heal!


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

I would continue the Furan 2 as directed on the box as a repeated dose with the added KanaPlex. You need both in the water to battle this bacteria. So you are waiting 24 hours with a water change after day 4.


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

UPDATE: After four doses (days) of Furan-2, I did a 24-hour "cleanse" of just new water, Prime and a drop of Melafix.

Tonight, I started up the KanaPlex and a second round of Furan-2 but my question is on water changes.

With Furan-2, I was doing a new dose with a 100% WC every day. (Is this the correct way to do it?) However, with the KanaPlex, the dose is over a 48-hour period. How should I handle daily WCs if I'm medicating with both?


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

I still did the 100% water changes and just made sure that both medicines were on schedule for what should be in the water. Since my HT was gallon I had a gallon jug with the same dose of KanPlex holding so that it would be on schedule or Furan 2 and KanaPlex...does that make sense. That way I could change out the water every day and be on the medicine's schedule without total ammonia build up and keeping the water pristine.

Or just change the water and be sure the correct amount is in the water for the day you are on with both medicines. I tried to keep the dosages correct either way. Did that help?


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Yeah, I it does help! Since the Furan-2 is a daily dose, I can just change that out with the water change, and then I'll essentially halve the dose of KanaPlex.

I took your advice on breaking the medicines into parts... so I have 5 cups of KanaPlex (since the dose is for 5 gallons) and 10 cups of Furan-2 (since it's for 10 gallons). Then, I broke it down from there to equal 1/4 C dose per 4 C water in my hospital tank (per med).

I'm pretty sure my math is right but let me know if you think I'm dosing incorrectly!

Thank you again for all your replies! My betta's not looking too hot... most of the dead tissue is gone but the tears are unbelievable and there's still a lot of black coloring that hasn't started to come away yet. So worried. Hoping these two meds knock it out!


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

If your hospital tank is still the 1 1/2 gallon tank than it should be 1 1/2 cups of each med on the correct day. Since you did 1 cup = 1 gallons right?

I hope that the progression of the bacteria on the fins has stopped. I know when you first start dosing the meds they sometimes get less active but mine got active again when his body adjusted to them. I am hoping these 2 meds will knock it out for you too! Please keep us informed on your progress!


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

I'm sorry, I should've clarified: My hospital tank is 4 cups, so a quarter gallon. That's why I've been dosing with a 1/4 C of medication.

Just did a water change with the second dose of Furan-2 and my half-dose of KanaPlex... I didn't know what else to do for the KanaPlex if it calls for a 48-hour period and I have to do a daily water change.

Though he's still normal behaviorally and eats every meal, if anything, the fin rot and tearing is getting worse...


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

I would not do a 1/2 dose of KanaPlex on the 2nd water change because I am not sure that it dissipates out of the water in the 48 hour period. I did the full strength of KanaPlex on the water change. Then because I was unsure about that, I put the dose of KanaPlex in another container and let it sit the first 24 hours and then added the Furan 2 to that container when I did the 24 hour water change. So it would be the same as being in the tank with the fish at the full 48 hours. I probably overthought the process just trying hard to make sure my fish got the correct amount.

It doesn't look like it has slowed down. Hopefully, Lilnaugrim will be checking in on your fish soon. She has a lot going on but she really cares about our bettas.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Medications don't dissipate with water evaporation, just like salt. So the concentration would increase with the evaporation.

Use a full dose but dose for the size of your tank. Like, don't use half a gallon dose for a quarter gallon because that's overdosing, does that make sense?

It's hard to calculate it out for quarter of a gallon for KanaPlex since it's 5 gallons for one scoop. If you want to split up the powder then you'd have to take one scoop, split it into 5 piles and then those piles split into 4 rough piles from there to get a quarter of a gallon dosage for your boy.

Yeah, sorry about not getting to you quickly, I've been pretty sick lately which put a damper on things! Thank you firewood for helping out here! I appreciate it!


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

You're both right; I don't know what I was thinking on the dose.

I emailed Seachem this weekend and they recommended feeding KanaPlex when using it in addition to another medication, so I suppose I could eliminate the water dosing complications by doing this.

Thank you for staying with me on this! I'd read in this particular forum's sticky that severe fin rot may take weeks to turn around, so I suppose I should keep faith and try to wait it out. He just looks so much worse for wear.

I'll just ask these last two (potentially) crazy questions: Have you ever used a fish vet? I know he was a $5 fish but I'm responsible for his life. Or do you know of instances where a much more experienced betta keeper adopts a sick betta to take over care?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I have not personally used a fish vet, though there are some around. But, they can at least take a bacteria swab and pin point the bacteria as to whether it's gram-negative or gram-positive. Most aquatic disease are gram-negative whereas airborne diseases tend to be mostly gram-positive. We generally recommend Furan-2 and KanaPlex because they are both broad spectrum meaning they treat both gram + and - with a primary concentration on gram - due to the normal bacteria in aquaria.

I would not move him around too much, it causes unnecessary stress to the fish which can help further the disease.


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Ooops, I was rushed and forgot to mention earlier: I hope you're feeling better, lilnaugrim, and I really appreciate your expertise and willingness to jump in and offer advice! Thank you to you and firewood!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh, thank you very much ^_^ I'm getting there! Still achy and really tired! But, I'm healing slowly  Glad to help when I can!


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

*Two-part post... see the update within an update after the first set of photos!
*
I'm sorry to be updating again, but things are severe.

After finishing round two of Furan-2 today and beginning my last dose of KanaPlex tonight/tomorrow, I did a water change and upon transferring my betta back into his hospital tank, his fins tore.

What's left of his dorsal fin was essentially a stump, and now it opened into a bloody wound. It also appears one of his pelvic fins is wounded at the tip, with a drop of coagulated blood trailing along with it.

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do. He's so fragile, I can't even transfer him with a net. Should I have even been doing this in the first place? I don't even know! Perhaps I'm not doing water changes correctly...? Should I have been acclimating him with every water change? I probably wrongly assumed that daily water changes meant the conditions were so similar, I didn't need to acclimate him. I measure the water temperature of the tank and match the new water accordingly. The only difference would be leaving behind his poop/ammonia in the day-old water (or so I'm probably incorrectly assuming)!

I'm sorry. I'm so worried and I feel like I'm just making him worse. 

Dorsal stump:


Open sore at dorsal fin... he's also favoring a side now:


Strange coagulation. Is this normal in water? Shows pelvic fin tear, too:


*UPDATE!* After writing the above and then checking on him, I took the following photos. First, it appeared the wound had turned into a growth, or that it was oozing out. My first thought was a ruptured cyst. It looked like a tiny raspberry attached to him.

Perhaps this is how fish blood reacts in water? I don't know!


Admittedly, I had to take some time after seeing this. I figured it was essentially the end for him and it was my last night with him. About 15 minutes later, I checked on him (in the HT inside the regular tank) and it's detached. Apologies for the terrible photo. You can see the approximate size.


Here's a closeup. It's a jelly-like substance that no longer looks like a raspberry out of water.


You can't tell this ever happened... there's no open wound, just the stump dorsal fin and the fin rot that was already there. The pelvic fin has a feathery bit that's translucent now... no longer bloody. I know this cannot have been good so please tell me what to expect.


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## firewood04 (Dec 24, 2015)

Sorry I just saw your post. Wow, I don't even know what to say on that one. That looks like it was a very scary thing to have happen. If his fins are fragile, can you cup him instead? I use a dry measure cup with no sharp edges to move them if the net can't work. Did you do an Aquarium Salt bath with that wound? It would be 1 teaspoon to 1 gallon of water and I am thinking you may need to add those baths but lets see what Lilnaugrim thinks. I am sure hoping that she is feeling much better.

As to your water changes, I would do the same thing. I just make sure that the water temperatures are exact and that I have put in the water conditioner and the correct meds. I know that this was very traumatic but how is he doing? Is he still swimming around and eating? I hope that the next round of meds kicks this bacteria's butt!!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Wait, you're doing daily water changes? Idk, even in a small tank like that, I would follow the directions on the package which means a water change every two days instead. But yes, go another round with both medications.

Do you have a larger container to keep him in? Even something like a clean plastic-ware/tupperware container would do, something about a gallon would be easier to keep going. That way you don't have to do daily water changes and so the medication can do it's job and you don't have to stress out your fish :-/

And I agree, you can add 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon into his tank and leave that in there while you dose the medications. Salt also does not evaporate so that means when you take out 25% of the water, you also take out 25% of the salt too and need to replace that when you add in the new water to the container. Does that make sense?

(thanks firewood, I'm getting there! Still exhausted but I'm truckin' along!)


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## fishyman23 (Jul 25, 2015)

Hi guys,

Figured I'd update you and ask again for your advice. I finished the last 48-hour dose of KanaPlex on Friday/Saturday (the second round of Furan-2 was completed earlier last week). The fin rot seems to be under control but his fins and tail are terribly torn. That wound also seems to have been scarier looking than anything; it hasn't reopened.

I also took both your advice and cut down on water changes and started up the aquarium salt again. I did a 100% WC on Sunday (to start fresh after the meds), but have since done 25% Monday and Tuesday and a 50% tonight, with the appropriate replacement doses of salt and a teeny bit of Melafix (and always with Prime).

But, when it rains it pours, and now I have a new problem: deteriorating slime coat. Some posts on this forum say it's normal to shed slim coat; others say it's another sign of infection. I didn't find anything suggesting it's due to stress from the medications, though that would make sense in my mind.

Any thoughts on how to treat this new symptom? Thanks for any help you can give!

Sorry for the poor photo; it shows the deterioration before he began swimming around much after I moved his hospital tank.


You can see all the stuff floating around in the water... and some poop (sorry!).


His current condition.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah that's just stress/irritation from the medications. I wouldn't worry too heavily about it for the time being, it's just something that happens normally. There is something called a Slime Coat Infection which is a separate disease but the liklihood of it being that is low versus just irritation from the medications which is quite typical of fish who have just been on Furan-2; it can be pretty harsh.

Good news is that it looks like the actual rot is going away! That's perfect! He'll still have a ways to go for healing up his fins but it looks like the rot has improved!

I would give him a few days off medications, like 3-5 and do daily water changes or put him back into a larger tank so that the water parameters are more stable for him. If he shows no sign of improvement after 3 days or becomes worse again, medicate. If he shows signs of improvement, keep him in the larger tank and do twice weekly water changes around 15-25% roughly. You don't need a lot or large water changes but just something to help turn the water, it will help him to heal up!


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