# New Fish Behavior



## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

How do new fish behave when you fist buy them? 

My new fish yesterday was all happy in his new tank swimming around, and then at night he just moped around all night hiding in his cave and only coming out to breathe. Today he is just laying around barely moving. I can't think of any reason he would be sick, so I was just wondering if other people have this same type of behavior


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## CarmanDirda (Feb 20, 2012)

Watch carefully for signs of illness, and be sure to have his tank the right temperature, and water clean. My dragonscale Apollo was like that, but warmed up again a few days later. Some fish are just more reserved, like people. Just be watching him closely until he begins to be more active again.

Do you have things for him to do? Plants to hide in or play with, things for him to explore or interact with? I sometimes put small toy figures up to the tank and "play" with them. It's helped a few of my shy rescues come out of their shells.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Oh that makes me feel better since he is a dragon. Hopefully he is just like yours. He has clean water temperature 79 degrees. Yeah I have a few things in there. Soon I will have some nice live plants once they are done be quarintined. He still ate this morning which makes me feel comforted.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

How did you acclimate him?

What is the source of the water and what additives did you use?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I left him floating in the cup in the water for two hours. then slowly added some of the tank water to his tank and removed the old water from his cup. Did this about three times taking out about 2 tbs each time and adding 2 tbs of clean water. 

I use tap water and I started using Prime (heard it was good). I also have Aqueon betta bowl plus on hand if I should switch to that?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sounds like you acclimated ok. Prime should take care of anything.. 2 drops per gallon, yes?

What size tank does he have and what heater are you using? Does the temp change at all or is it always a steady 79, even at night?

ETA: You didn't put the new guy in the 2g that your last guy died in did you? Use the same stuff over? What, if anything, did you reuse and how did you sterilize?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

It seems steady the heater has a a temperature adjustment thing so when it starts going down it turns on and keeps it steady. Its the Top Fin submersible heater. The tank is the same two gallon I had for Rufio. I cleaned it good though. For a week I had hot water in it then I used bleach to disinfect I cleaned it so many times after to make sure no bleach remained. Even after i thought it was okay I still rinsed it. I reused the tank and the cave. I disinfect the cave with bleach too but I got paranoid so I removed it today. The heater is new too.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Here is a picture. He has just been like this all day


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

So to disinfect with bleach you would do a 10% solution.. or in your case there are 32 cups in your bowl. So you would put 3-4 cups of bleach along with the rest water and soak at least 10 min before rinsing? Then you should be good on disinfecting.. the rocks are new too?

Cave wasn't good to bleach as it's porous and can trap the bleach then release it back into the water.. Just to be safe, I would do a good size water change now and add some extra prime to be safe. You can add up to 4 drops per gallon so in your case you can add up to 8 drops safely. 4 drops would be standard. See if this perks him up..

Just to be clear, he hasn't moved from that position all day except to eat?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay Should I do a 50% water change? 

Yes the gravel is new too


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I'd go ahead and do the 50% change, yes.. that's the least I'd do. I might even cup him (float him in a solo cup in the tank for heat and slowly change out his water again up to 100%.) See if he doesn't perk up in the cup away from everything in the tank and fresh water.

Sometimes bettas can hide a bit when getting used to things but he doesn't look good in the above pic to me and if he doesn't move from that position all day.. something's up.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Just did the water change. He is just sank all the way to the bottom. Didnt even try to swim. Im afraid he won't be able to swim up to the top should I just cup him and leave him floating in the tank. Im afraid he is gonna die on me while im in class


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would do that...so sorry don't understand what happening looks like you do everything right way.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Was the tank already containing water when you were going to add the cave? It is possible that some bleach came out of the cave into that water.

He may also just be very stressed out.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know  so sad he is just sitting at the bottom of the cup looking so helpless. I already lost one last night. And the thought of losing this one is killing me I fell in love with him instantly


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> Was the tank already containing water when you were going to add the cave? It is possible that some bleach came out of the cave into that water.
> 
> He may also just be very stressed out.


No I added the cave then the water. gosh I knew I shouldnt have used that cave


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> No I added the cave then the water. gosh I knew I shouldnt have used that cave


Well even if the cave was dripping a bit and slightly damp. I don't think it would have been enough bleach to cause too much of a problem. It should have disappeared when you added Prime. And even if there was some still left over your recent water change would of nearly removed all.
Have hopes, he may make it through the night and get better.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> Well even if the cave was dripping a bit and slightly damp. I don't think it would have been enough bleach to cause too much of a problem. It should have disappeared when you added Prime. And even if there was some still left over your recent water change would of nearly removed all.
> Have hopes, he may make it through the night and get better.


Yeah I don't believe it could have been the bleach. I rinsed that stuff like no other with all the water I used I could have filled a pool. I don't know what it could be. Right now he is just floating in the cup. Should I leave him like that all night? It doesn't look like he has the energy to swim up to breath in the tank and my tank is pretty tall in height.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Yeah I don't believe it could have been the bleach. I rinsed that stuff like no other with all the water I used I could have filled a pool. I don't know what it could be. Right now he is just floating in the cup. Should I leave him like that all night? It doesn't look like he has the energy to swim up to breath in the tank and my tank is pretty tall in height.


I would leave him in the cup until he looks better.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

He is just chillin like this.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

has his color gotten better?
He looks like he has gain more blue back.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

He is def. more blue. His behavior doesn't match his appearance because he def. looks healthier. He just doesnt move. When I try to release him into the water he just lets himself sink to the gravel


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> He is def. more blue. His behavior doesn't match his appearance because he def. looks healthier. He just doesnt move. When I try to release him into the water he just lets himself sink to the gravel


He may get better. With him gaining color his health maybe returning.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

would aquarium salt in this case or should I just supervise him?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> would aquarium salt in this case or should I just supervise him?


I wouldn't add any salt. I believe salt is best left for when you know exactly what is is and how to treat it. But someone else with more experience with aquarium salt would chime in.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

So is it okay to leave him in the little cup overnight? He seems a little bit more active but still pretty still at the bottom of the cup


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> So is it okay to leave him in the little cup overnight? He seems a little bit more active but still pretty still at the bottom of the cup


Just for safety measures I would keep him there til morning. If he's acting better than tonight then I'd release him.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I think you have gotten great advice so far.. and have done everything right. 
Sometimes new fish have health problems prior to you getting them, and it's hard to diagnose a new fish's illness since there was no symptoms leading up to it that you would of been able to see.

Your advice has been spot on, what I would of recommended. Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention, I will keep an eye on it.

When he goes up for air, does it seem as if he is having trouble swimming? Like struggling hard, possibly tipping ever so slightly? The head down position I don't like, is that how he is constantly, or just for the picture?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

If he's better in the cup and out of the tank water then something probably got into the tank. I would suggest breaking down the tank, rinsing everything very very carefully in hot tap water and not returning the cave. However.. you nee to be able to keep him warm. So do you have any place else you can put him in the meantime that's heated? If not then just leave him floating in the cup. Keep slowly changing out the cup water with fresh clean water, several times a day to keep the ammonia down. 

I wouldn't add aquarium salt but you might think of adding epsom salts as it help with chemical or other poisoning. You need 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon.. in the cup you wouldn't be able to measure so you'd need a place you could mix up at least half a gallon of water at a time to get the right dosage of salts.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Myates said:


> I think you have gotten great advice so far.. and have done everything right.
> Sometimes new fish have health problems prior to you getting them, and it's hard to diagnose a new fish's illness since there was no symptoms leading up to it that you would of been able to see.
> 
> Your advice has been spot on, what I would of recommended. Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention, I will keep an eye on it.
> ...


It doesn't look like he has trouble but I noticed he keeps his pelvic fins clamped to his body. He is a lot more wiggly today wanting to go back in the tank but most of the time he does just chill at the bottom of the cup. yesterday he was just sinking like that with his head down and his body would slowly lower but he isn't doing that so much.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

callistra said:


> If he's better in the cup and out of the tank water then something probably got into the tank. I would suggest breaking down the tank, rinsing everything very very carefully in hot tap water and not returning the cave. However.. you nee to be able to keep him warm. So do you have any place else you can put him in the meantime that's heated? If not then just leave him floating in the cup. Keep slowly changing out the cup water with fresh clean water, several times a day to keep the ammonia down.
> 
> I wouldn't add aquarium salt but you might think of adding epsom salts as it help with chemical or other poisoning. You need 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon.. in the cup you wouldn't be able to measure so you'd need a place you could mix up at least half a gallon of water at a time to get the right dosage of salts.


Thank you Callistra will do! I will hold off on the epsom salts for now because I don't have anything bigger to put him in. Maybe I will get a half a gallon bucket over the weekend. How long should I wait to put him back in the tank?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i can't wait for update so worry..Karebear lost 2 bettas already i wish this one survived  oh i didn't see your post karebear we put it at the same time

Oh glad he still alive


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> i can't wait for update so worry..Karebear lost 2 bettas already i wish this one survived  oh i didn't see your post karebear we put it at the same time


haha we did. I saw someone else reply and was thinking that was a fast response. Thank you for your concern Anhel. I have faith and hope he will pull through


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Then it obvious that it something in the tank. Oh good that you took him out. Don't keep anything from that tank. Sorry for all your trouble. I also always have something really bad before I have good . I used to it already lol


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You can keep some stuff from the tank... if you super-clean them... sometimes. But, if it happens to be a new plant, new gravel... or even just gravel in general. It's so hard to find out lol. I ended up throwing out everything including the tank, that Spartan used to use when he was a year old, because I could not for the life of me figure out what was poisoning him.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> It doesn't look like he has trouble but I noticed he keeps his pelvic fins clamped to his body. He is a lot more wiggly today wanting to go back in the tank but most of the time he does just chill at the bottom of the cup. yesterday he was just sinking like that with his head down and his body would slowly lower but he isn't doing that so much.


Glad to hear he is getting better 
The Epsom salt recommended wouldn't be a bad thing to try.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> You can keep some stuff from the tank... if you super-clean them... sometimes. But, if it happens to be a new plant, new gravel... or even just gravel in general. It's so hard to find out lol. I ended up throwing out everything including the tank, that Spartan used to use when he was a year old, because I could not for the life of me figure out what was poisoning him.


I had actually thrown out the tank and decor that Cal used as well. I'm glad I bought double of those decor from Pet Bazaar. I really liked them for my bettas. Loved the bit of natural appeal it gave and yet it still flattered my fish.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I would toss everything but the tank and bleach that again. Anything you get new I would rinse in hot tap water, air dry, then soak in dechlorinated water a few minutes before adding tot he tank.

Having a half gallon or gallon bucket around can be quite handy for a variety of reasons. I have 1 gallon and 5 gallon. 

Suggest getting a Marineland Visitherm or Hydor Theo heater. For 5g try 50w. Recently I have had good luck with Aqueon Pro. It holds consistent temp but I don't like it as well because the dial is continuous instead of clicking 1 up per degree. It was hard to set.

eTA: Actually I don't know what size tank you have? I thought I remembered 5g but cant' find anywhere where you told us now.

ETA2: Okay you have a 2g? Get a 25w of the same type.. don't think Aqueon comes that low though. Remember your 2g needs 2 100% changes per week (100% every 4 days and I suggest a 50% at day 2 as well based on personal experience).


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay I will bleach the tank. I got rid of everything that was in the tank. I will bleach the tank. So three cups of bleach right that seems like a lot of bleach? 

I wanted to keep the heater and the thermometer though because I don't have any money to purchase new things. Can I just bleach the thermometer its glass. What about the heater I don't want to bleach is because it has rubber on it but won't it be fine to just rinse with hot water and leave it out of water for a day? 

i already have new gravel and am buying a new cave tomorrow. Right now he is floating in a little cup inside a .5 gallon tub.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You can use vinegar for the heater, by the use of hot water and vinegar drenched cloth... Wipe it down a few times, rinse as well... And yes the thermometer can be cleaned with bleach/water mix


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Oh yeah the thermometer you can keep too. Just wasn't thinking. I'd get a better quality heater myself as the cheaper ones can leach stuff or fail prematurely and I can't count the number of situations where I've seen this happen (top fin was a culprit in at least one of them), but if you want to reuse it vinegar is safer. The Hydor or Marineland will run you $20 btw.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> You can use vinegar for the heater, by the use of hot water and vinegar drenched cloth... Wipe it down a few times, rinse as well... And yes the thermometer can be cleaned with bleach/water mix


How much vinegar should I mix with water?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

10% solution rule again. Use the 100% white distilled vinegar you would use to clean wood floors or whatever.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

callistra said:


> Oh yeah the thermometer you can keep too. Just wasn't thinking. I'd get a better quality heater myself as the cheaper ones can leach stuff or fail prematurely and I can't count the number of situations where I've seen this happen (top fin was a culprit in at least one of them), but if you want to reuse it vinegar is safer. The Hydor or Marineland will run you $20 btw.


Well I wouldn't mind buying a new heater but for now I don't want him to be in cold water so I wanted to reuse it for now. Where can I buy The hydor or Marineland one?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Is this the Hydro one? 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1330039259&sr=8-3&seller= 

Can you preset this one to the temperature you want?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

it depends on the situation, and item it is used on, for what percentage I use...
some use 1-10 ratio, or up to 1-2 ratio... Whichever works. I used... one cup vinegar to 6 cups water recently, after Shadow was removed and treated for his illness, and cleansed the rocks, tank, plant and ornament. Now they are in the sorority tank and Shiloh's tank, no problems. I'm a wimp for bleach (and terribly allergic) so i use vinegar.

Also check if it is the heater... set the heater up in a large bowl of water. foam, or discoloration of the water = faulty heater. smelling like rubber, is another sign.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> it depends on the situation, and item it is used on, for what percentage I use...
> some use 1-10 ratio, or up to 1-2 ratio... Whichever works. I used... one cup vinegar to 6 cups water recently, after Shadow was removed and treated for his illness, and cleansed the rocks, tank, plant and ornament. Now they are in the sorority tank and Shiloh's tank, no problems. I'm a wimp for bleach (and terribly allergic) so i use vinegar.
> 
> Also check if it is the heater... set the heater up in a large bowl of water. foam, or discoloration of the water = faulty heater. smelling like rubber, is another sign.


Okay I noticed that the heater does smell like rubber. My hands always smell like rubber after I rinse it, but I don't know if the water smells like rubber or anything. Im most likely gonna buy a new heater but for now I feel bad he is in a tiny .5 gallon tub and the water is going to get cold I do not know how to keep him warm. Also I want to buy the heater in the link above http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1330039259&sr=8-3&seller=

But I don't know much about Amazon. If I get the heater and it doesn't work can I return it? Anyone know?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

sorry lol I got one on ebay (LOVE IT) I don't use amazon so I am so useless to you 

I've noticed any ones that smell like rubber, or burning ribber cause me more problems so I just mention it as a precaution lol. Set it up in a bowl and see/smell if it does smell more like rubber in the water.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> sorry lol I got one on ebay (LOVE IT) I don't use amazon so I am so useless to you
> 
> I've noticed any ones that smell like rubber, or burning ribber cause me more problems so I just mention it as a precaution lol. Set it up in a bowl and see/smell if it does smell more like rubber in the water.


What kind do you use? 

Im looking for a good one that has the setting where you can set it to the temperature you want. I liked the Top Fin one cause it has numbers on it and you can set it to the specific temp. and its pretty accurate.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Top Fin is what I recommend. I have: top fin, tetra, and Jager original. The Tetra is suposed to be for 2-10 gallons, used to just heat 2 gallons and now heats the 10 to 78 >< it'll be the first to go... probably in the next few months... 
The top fin, is one of two I had.. the other got water logged because of my tired stupidity... I'd stick with the most recommended brands. The Jager is also great, same as top fin for being ajdjustable. I ave no idea about Marineland ones however...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-100W-Aqu...852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2314189d74
this is the unknown one I tried out. It works great, no problems, and is also adjustable. Except, it is good for canadians like me as it is in only celsius. Most are in Fahrenheit and celsius


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Yes this is the hydor: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1330039259&sr=8-3&seller=

I have Hydor, Marineland and Aqueon Pro.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Top Fin is what I recommend. I have: top fin, tetra, and Jager original. The Tetra is suposed to be for 2-10 gallons, used to just heat 2 gallons and now heats the 10 to 78 >< it'll be the first to go... probably in the next few months...
> The top fin, is one of two I had.. the other got water logged because of my tired stupidity... I'd stick with the most recommended brands. The Jager is also great, same as top fin for being ajdjustable. I ave no idea about Marineland ones however...
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-100W-Aqu...852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2314189d74
> this is the unknown one I tried out. It works great, no problems, and is also adjustable. Except, it is good for canadians like me as it is in only celsius. Most are in Fahrenheit and celsius


How long has your top fin one lasted?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

The top fin one is second hand, approximately 1 year old when I got it... I had it for a year... so 2?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> The top fin one is second hand, approximately 1 year old when I got it... I had it for a year... so 2?


Is it the submersible one that has rubber on the bottom?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Benzema is so weird. All day he has been moping around just chillin at the bottom of the tank won't move at all, but then at night he is super active swimming around the cup wanting to escape it. Or maybe he just gets cranky at water changes and four hours later is cool about it? I dont he confuses me a lot.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Whoops meant cup not tank.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Some submersible ones have a rubber bottom, some non-subermsible do too. My non-submersible top fin, and submersible tetra both have the rubber bottom and so does the Jager. 

I have some pretty laid back bettas. They hate being in the cup and tend to commit bettacide if I do not put something on top... It's just the fact it is a small space that captured them :lol:


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Some submersible ones have a rubber bottom, some non-subermsible do too. My non-submersible top fin, and submersible tetra both have the rubber bottom and so does the Jager.
> 
> I have some pretty laid back bettas. They hate being in the cup and tend to commit bettacide if I do not put something on top... It's just the fact it is a small space that captured them :lol:


But it is not only in the cup that he does this because yesterday I put him in a .5 gallon tub to let him have some freedom and he just sat at the little corner.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Does he prefer larger spaces then? I have Shiloh in a 20 gallon and he is SO ACTIVE you'd mistaken him for a danio :| Then there is Dally who moped about in 3 gallons of glorious space, so he went back to his lame 1 gallon round bowl which he became more active and happy x.x Betta fish are almost qas bad as dogs. Worse than dogs and children combined :lol:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I have a few heaters that work for about 2.5 years and i didn't have any problems. One of them I think Petco and i will look what kind others. I am not at home right now. I am using them only september through may though. I don’t use them when my room temp 74*. 

I had one heater that malfunctioned a few years ago. I usually check all my heaters in the tanks before I go to work and sleep and during the day. Just being careful lol

Also i think after you wash your heater soak it in the water to make sure there is no cleaning solution left . My heaters have plastic on the top and rubber on the bottom. And the top plastic has all those little holes in it . Not sure what is yours. But make sure that no cleaning solution left in those holes.

Ops sorry i am at work and it took me 25 min to write i have patient in from of me. We put post at the same time  So kind of off the topic but just curious what kind of heaters i have at home. I will check when i come home


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think my Jager one is at least 5 years old and still works like no tomorrow. Has one scratch (probably from being moved around), and that's it. That size would have cost me 60.00 but I got it for 5.00 :lol: old doesn't really mean bad... same with filter cartridges. Never throw them out except in the case of poisoning (that's what I had), use of meds with the filter in by accident, and if it is falling apart.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Does he prefer larger spaces then? I have Shiloh in a 20 gallon and he is SO ACTIVE you'd mistaken him for a danio :| Then there is Dally who moped about in 3 gallons of glorious space, so he went back to his lame 1 gallon round bowl which he became more active and happy x.x Betta fish are almost qas bad as dogs. Worse than dogs and children combined :lol:


Idk what his deal is. Haha Dally sounds like a funny little guy. Benz is looking a lot better today. Maybe I can try putting him back in his two gallon and see how he reacts


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> I have a few heaters that work for about 2.5 years and i didn't have any problems. One of them I think Petco and i will look what kind others. I am not at home right now. I am using them only september through may though. I don’t use them when my room temp 74*.
> 
> I had one heater that malfunctioned a few years ago. I usually check all my heaters in the tanks before I go to work and sleep and during the day. Just being careful lol
> 
> ...


Yeah heaters are so annoying I noticed. but mine seems to be okay for now. I spent forever researching heaters but i couldnt find one that was totally perfect. Let me know which heaters you have and how long you have had them


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

I had a Hydor Theo 25W (http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-THEO-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0006JLPG8/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_1) and it worked fine in my 2.5G. It doesn't quite heat to the temperature marked on the dial, though, you have to fiddle with it and figure out how many degrees it's off by. It's marked up to 86*, but if you try to turn it up that high, it overheats.

Now I have an Eheim Jager 50W in 5gal. I highly recommend this brand, and I've heard lots of good things about them. The price is only a few dollars more and for me at least, the peace of mind is worth it. Here's the 25w: http://www.amazon.com/EHEIM-Jager-A...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1330116858&sr=1-1

I have Amazon Prime and have used the return system for broken/defective items before. It was super easy.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't mean to hijack your thread 
But my betta tank is in the kitchen, right beside the stove (I only use the burners furthest from the tank and we use a toaster oven opposite side of the kitchen for an oven.).
No sunlight gets to the tank. But the light itself keeps the tank close to 80F
Should I purchase a heater? I've observed the water temp only falling 2 degrees below 80.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Maybe as a "just in case" I'd say. The only time I removed mine, however is during the summer because it'd heat to 90, drop to 85, back to 90, back to 85 :lol: and I have all my heaters onto 78-80 at the most! But I always have them on hand just in case.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Maybe as a "just in case" I'd say. The only time I removed mine, however is during the summer because it'd heat to 90, drop to 85, back to 90, back to 85 :lol: and I have all my heaters onto 78-80 at the most! But I always have them on hand just in case.


That is what I was thinking about doing


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

that's good


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

mathkid said:


> I had a Hydor Theo 25W (http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-THEO-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0006JLPG8/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_1) and it worked fine in my 2.5G. It doesn't quite heat to the temperature marked on the dial, though, you have to fiddle with it and figure out how many degrees it's off by. It's marked up to 86*, but if you try to turn it up that high, it overheats.
> 
> Now I have an Eheim Jager 50W in 5gal. I highly recommend this brand, and I've heard lots of good things about them. The price is only a few dollars more and for me at least, the peace of mind is worth it. Here's the 25w: http://www.amazon.com/EHEIM-Jager-A...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1330116858&sr=1-1
> 
> I have Amazon Prime and have used the return system for broken/defective items before. It was super easy.


Thanks for the info I will check it out! Does the jager have actual numbers that you can set to or do you just have to turn the knob and watch the thermometer?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Jager has the numbers  some top fin do and don't - so watch out before you buy. I hate the guessing game :lol:


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Yep, it does have numbers. On mine, it worked almost to the number out of the box (less than a degree off).


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Jager has the numbers  some top fin do and don't - so watch out before you buy. I hate the guessing game :lol:


We need a like button


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay so after four days of being in a .5 gallon tub Benzema was ready to go back into his tank. He is so cute. His colors have changed so much and he is very active again. Even got him to jump for a bloodworm! Hopefully he stays like this! Here is a video sorry if its a little blurry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvIluBh1FRQ&feature=youtu.be


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Okay so after four days of being in a .5 gallon tub Benzema was ready to go back into his tank. He is so cute. His colors have changed so much and he is very active again. Hopefully he stays like this! Here is a video sorry if its a little blurry
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvIluBh1FRQ&feature=youtu.be


Awesome!!!
I knew he would make it. It's nice to see him swimming about again. He's not as active as Spike but each betta has their own personality. Hopefully things will keep getting better for him :,)


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm glad to see he is doing better! He's a good looking boy.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Karebear13 said:


> Okay so after four days of being in a .5 gallon tub Benzema was ready to go back into his tank. He is so cute. His colors have changed so much and he is very active again. Even got him to jump for a bloodworm! Hopefully he stays like this! Here is a video sorry if its a little blurry
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvIluBh1FRQ&feature=youtu.be


Yay! Glad he's doing better  Suggest not teaching him to jump unless you have a lid on your tank.. learned that the hard way


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks peeps! Im happy he is better! 

Good Point Callistra. He normally does have a lid, but at the moment Im using it for the QT plant set up I have. This will be his first night without some type of lid. There is a lot of room from the surface of the water to the top of the tank. Is there anyway he can jump out?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

callistra said:


> Yay! Glad he's doing better  Suggest not teaching him to jump unless you have a lid on your tank.. learned that the hard way


I always kept a lid on my tank now a days. I never take a risk. I've had shrimp, plecos, goldfish and guppies alike try to (and some successful) at fishycide. Those were my younger days when I trusted my dad's word over anything.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

A good 3-4 inches should be fine.. but sometimes if they are strong enough then they can get over.
What I like to do (I do this anyways on my smaller tanks even though all tanks have lids) is use seran wrap over the top, a few holes poked in for air and to drop in food.. tape it to the edges to keep it from collapsing into the water. It will help build humidity in the air above the water surface, which is good for their labyrinth organ. Plus, they can't jump through it.. I have a jumper with my Aanya, and at times I don't have the seran wrap on, she will jump at my hand when I open the lid to feed. She goes a good 4 inches.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Myates said:


> A good 3-4 inches should be fine.. but sometimes if they are strong enough then they can get over.
> What I like to do (I do this anyways on my smaller tanks even though all tanks have lids) is use seran wrap over the top, a few holes poked in for air and to drop in food.. tape it to the edges to keep it from collapsing into the water. It will help build humidity in the air above the water surface, which is good for their labyrinth organ. Plus, they can't jump through it.. I have a jumper with my Aanya, and at times I don't have the seran wrap on, she will jump at my hand when I open the lid to feed. She goes a good 4 inches.


Whoa thats quite the jumper O.O
BTw b-e-a-u-tiful betta in your avatar


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Buying a piece of window screen and putting it over the top and affixing with a rubber band works nice too.. 

I taught my Jayhawk to jump and thought it was really cute until every time I came anywhere near the tank he would leap.. Especially if I was trying to do anything in the tank like clean it, he'd assume my hand was food..became not so funny about a while.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> Whoa thats quite the jumper O.O
> BTw b-e-a-u-tiful betta in your avatar


I was admiring Myates' avatar too  
That is a good idea. I will need to get some seran wrap!


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

So now that he is swimming around and everything I can see him better and I noticed a little bit of his fin seems ripped on the anal fin. Is this just a fin tear that will fix itself by water changes and time or is it fin rot?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I had betta jumped out of the tank too. One survived because i herd the splash of the water and put it right back , another one didn't make it. I also need to look for seran wrap. 

I am glad Benzema doing better. He looks happy and very cute. You took good care of him 

Ops i put the same time with you again.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm not sure I see the tear...but his colors look WAY better


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Its at the end of his anal fin on the bottom. Yeah he got so blue when i first had him he was white. The pictures is a little bit enhanced though so he isn't that bright.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> I had betta jumped out of the tank too. One survived because i herd the splash of the water and put it right back , another one didn't make it. I also need to look for seran wrap.
> 
> I am glad Benzema doing better. He looks happy and very cute. You took good care of him
> 
> Ops i put the same time with you again.


We always do that haha  what do you think about his fin the anal part near the end on the bottom


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm not sure...I honestly think it looks normal. Hard for me to tell tho (reading classes aren't within my reach)


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about it. To promote fin growth you can use some aquarium salt.. 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon, which comes out to a little over half a teaspoon her gallon. You can do this for up to 2 weeks and your bettas will have zero stress from this. Predissolve it before adding.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Don't worry. Fin rot (minor) tends to disappear. Only when it becomes a problem...which I have fought with some of my rescues... will you need drastic measures like AQ salt, heavier medications, and even kanaplex.... ><


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

So I always wanted a ghost shrimp to be a little companion with my betta but my other two bettas seemed too aggressive and I figured they would eat the poor little guy. Benz seems pretty mellow and never flares! So im thinking he may be a good choice to try and house a ghost shrimp with. Im gonna give him a few weeks to adjust to his home before I add in the ghost shrimp. Plus wait for the QT plants to be put in the tank so that the poor little shrimp can hide in case he is scared. 

Do I have to QT the shrimp before adding him? And is there any way to tell if Benz will eat him before I put him in the tank? I really don't want him to eat him. I know its nature but I can't stand the idea of sacrificing a poor little shrimp


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am completely agree with Sena. One of my fish tail bitter and his tail get healed so fast with water changes. I do a lot of water changes though i think. I do 1-50% and 1-100% every 5 days.

Also with betta i think you never know they can be absolutely fine at the beginning and get territorial later. So i think there is a risk when you introduce a new tank mate to your betta that they won’t get along


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

What I suggst when adding anything new to a betta (shrimo, fish, snails) is to do a water change, take the betta out, rearrange everything, put the critter in, then maybe 15-30 minutes later reintroduce the betta (you can have him floating for the 15-30 minutes). Therefore it is not HIS territory, everything is different, and the shrimp was there FIRST.

Doesn't always work as we know there is no fool proof anything for our fishies lol!! But will make it easier.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay that sounds like a good plan. Should I wait to put the plants till I get the shrimp then that way the tank will look totally new to Benz? The plants still have two weeks left to be in Qt. Should I Qt the shrimp too?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> I am completely agree with Sena. One of my fish tail bitter and his tail get healed so fast with water changes. I do a lot of water changes though i think. I do 1-50% and 1-100% every 5 days.
> 
> Also with betta i think you never know they can be absolutely fine at the beginning and get territorial later. So i think there is a risk when you introduce a new tank mate to your betta that they won’t get along


Yeah I think with water changes he will get better and healthier. He already looks bigger. How big is your tank?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

The tank that i am talking about 2.5 gall. My other tanks 2.5 gall and i do 1-50% and 1-100% once a wk. I also have one 5 gall which i do 50% every wk and 100% every 3 weeks


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Quarantine the plants, and the shrimp as well. Although I have never heard of snails, shrimps or similar critters carrying stuff like velvet, ich, etc, it is still in the best interest of everyone lol. Plants however carry pest snail eggs, black hair algae, angel's hair, fungi, etc so definitely keep them in quarantine.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> The tank that i am talking about 2.5 gall. My other tanks 2.5 gall and i do 1-50% and 1-100% once a wk. I also have one 5 gall which i do 50% every wk and 100% every 3 weeks


Okay. That is what Im going to do One 50% and one 100% every week


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Quarantine the plants, and the shrimp as well. Although I have never heard of snails, shrimps or similar critters carrying stuff like velvet, ich, etc, it is still in the best interest of everyone lol. Plants however carry pest snail eggs, black hair algae, angel's hair, fungi, etc so definitely keep them in quarantine.


Yeah I was told three weeks for the plants to be in QT. If they carry stuff is it gonna go away or how would I know if they are safe? 

How long should I qt the shrimp?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

the shrimp probably 1-2 weeks. Get him from a healthy tank - healthy plants in the tank, minimal algae, no dead or sick fish, etc. The plants are 2-3 weeks I believe


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

callistra said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. To promote fin growth you can use some aquarium salt.. 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon, which comes out to a little over half a teaspoon her gallon. You can do this for up to 2 weeks and your bettas will have zero stress from this. Predissolve it before adding.


If I wanted to add the salt to promote fin growth would I just add one teaspoon for the two gallon tank. How often would I add it to the tank?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

oh no. He seems to have a little white speck. God I hope its not Ich I can't really tell whether it is or not. 
What should I do just keep an eye on it or add some aq salt. I don't understand how he could have gotten it since everything is brand new in the tank. Hopefully its not Ich


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Ich is almost always in the tank as an unseen and dormant micro-critter. It can find it's host in smaller units of water (2 gallon vs a 20 gallon), and attacks when the host is stressed (stress lowers immunity).

Pre-dissolve AQ salt, and add. Yes, 1 tsp for your tank should do it, plus it will help with any possible ich. You'll want to siphon the bottom of the tank each day now to avoid any breeding ich at the bottom. Bring the water temperature to 80-85 if you can. (not only will your betta love 80 degrees but the ich will speed up the process, drop off, and the AQ will dehydrate and kill it!)


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh no are sure can you post a picture? You sure you are not overreacting? Last time he looked so healthy


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Im not positive I hope Im a just overreacting. He won't let me take a picture he is too fast for me. He seems alright health wise. He just has a sketchy white speck whit i hope isn't ich. But it wouldn't hurt to add some aq salt for a few weeks even if it isn't ich would it? I increased the temperature to about 81 degrees. 

How often should I add in salt?

I don't have anything to siphon the gravel with. Is there something else I can do to clean the gravel?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Im not positive I hope Im a just overreacting. He won't let me take a picture he is too fast for me. He seems alright health wise. He just has a sketchy white speck whit i hope isn't ich. But it wouldn't hurt to add some aq salt for a few weeks even if it isn't ich would it? I increased the temperature to about 81 degrees.
> 
> How often should I add in salt?
> 
> I don't have anything to siphon the gravel with. Is there something else I can do to clean the gravel?


When I didnt have my siphon I would pour the gravel into a strainer/rinsed with hot water and then rinse again with cold water. Using my hand to stir around the gravel.
I would recommend getting a siphon. The smaller ones aren't that expensive at all/they are a god send in cleaning gravel.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11123493


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah I was gonna buy one soon. I obviously need to get one for my 20 gallon tank that I will be setting up this summer. Is there one that I can get for both tanks like would a medium size one work. Or would a small one not be good for the 20 gallon tank? The smallest the better cause its probably cheaper and Im on a small budget. 

So Benz is kind of a weirdo. All day I have been raising the temperature by one degree to get to 80. He is used to 77 degrees. But once it finally hit 80 after slowly raising it he was acting so strange. He was just hiding in his little hut looking all sad and wouldn't come out. Then when I lowered it back to 77 slowly he was all happy swimming around. Could it be he doesn't like high temperature? I want to raise it so if what he has is ich will die but he acts so strange


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

They do have a medium one
i believe you can see it on the link i had posted.

The way he is acting maybe because he got used to the 77F?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Would the small one be okay for the 20 gallon one though. Thank you for the link btw!


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

if it's not tall, it should work just fine.
I have the VERY original gravel vacuum. One that you have to fill completely to start the vacuum.
my 75 gallon vacuum has to be shaken up n down in the water, I maybe replacing that one cause I get water everywhere during water changes.
And the newer ones have a pump that you squeeze several times to start the vacuum....pretty nefty


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

I have the kind with the check valve -- that's the kind that says to shake it up and down -- but you can also put your hand over the end (to feel better about hygiene) and suck to get the flow started.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

mathkid said:


> I have the kind with the check valve -- that's the kind that says to shake it up and down -- but you can also put your hand over the end (to feel better about hygiene) and suck to get the flow started.


Thanks. Where did you get yours at?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

I got mine at Pet Club - it's a California chain that has slightly better prices than the regular pet stores. But they sell them at Petco and Petsmart... pretty much everywhere.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

So I have been trying to get a pic all day of the white speck and no success. Its so small and it blends with his scaling unless you see it in person. I really hope its not ICH. Im supposed to be doing a 50% water change tomorrow. I wanted to add in some aq salt... any suggestions when doing the water change. 

How often should I add new salt?

Also I plan on buying a siphon this weekend. I wish I could sooner but I have no transportation until the weekend  Should I wait to do the aq until i have the siphon


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

mathkid said:


> I got mine at Pet Club - it's a California chain that has slightly better prices than the regular pet stores. But they sell them at Petco and Petsmart... pretty much everywhere.


Oh okay Im in Ca. Maybe I can find one. The only problem is I don't have a car and don't know anyone with a car so I basically can only go to Petsmart cause that is the closest thing by bus


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

This was the best I could do. Its at his head the white thing. . His behavior is fine and he seems healthy and happy, so I don't know if I should just leave him alone


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I cannot really tell if it is ich or not... Maybe someone else can tell. If it falls off in a few days, and more appear it is definitely ich. Spartan had one spot before and I just turned the heat up, siphoned the bottom... it went away 

As for the siphons... I want the pump one :| I have the "shake up and down" but it doesn't work very well so you have to suck to siphon.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just recommend to wait and not add aquarium salt if you are not sure what it is. I can’t really say what it is. You think he didn’t have it before? 
When you are using aquarium salt it should be right dosage and right duration or it not going to help. Also if you continue to add aq salt on regular basis it doesn’t prevent disease or parasites and long term use can cause resistant pathogens/parasites issues and kidney damage…and long term non-therapeutic dosage can limit it ability to work for treatment when needed.
 I actually have saved directions how to treat ICH from Oldfishlady. I am going to post it just in case.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

yeah I am going to wait. Im gonna try and turn the temperature up a little and siphon the gravel.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just found post that i had from Oldfishlady. I will post everything. I think at the end of the instruction you will find information what to do with filter which you don't need it. I just post everything because i was afraid to miss something

It hard to tell if it is ich..even without aquarium salt if it is ich you can still treat…although salt can help to a degree with killing the parasite and prevention of secondary infection from the wounds the parasite leaves when it detaches from the fish…fresh clean dechlorinate water and water changes can do the same thing in most cases


With bettas I like to do the two cup method to treat Ich…the small container you have him in work great for this especially if you have two of them…float him the QT in a heated tank and slowly get the temp up to the 85-86F range…float the second cup with fresh dechlorinated water in the heated tank so it comes to temp and net the fish each day and move to the fresh like temp dechlorinated water-dump the first cups water-rinse with hot water and let it air dry…about an hour before the next daily water change fill the cup up with fresh dechlorinated water and float in the heated tank to come to temp and net the fish and move to that QT cup….do this every day for at least 3 days past the last day you could see any parasites on the fish


You can’t kill ich while it is on the fish without killing the fish…raising the water temp will speed the life cycle of the Ich and it will help make the Ich off the fish faster so you can manually remove the Ich from the tank/container the fish is in

By air drying the net and container between uses will kill any Ich that may be on it

Temp over 86F and the Ich is said to stop reproducing and some even say it will kill the Ich

You want to treat for at least 3 days past the last day you could see the ich on the fish to make sure you got the ones that may be hiding in the gill area.

Would still use the two container method..you goal with Ich is to remove it manually from the container once it falls off the fish and the small QT containers work well for this…

If you use the salt-I would pre mix it in a clean 1gal jug (I use an old clean 1 gall milk jug) add 1 tsp/gallon of water (and dechlorinater if you normally use it)..by pre-mixing this keep the salt dissolved and make the dosage and daily water changes easier too…shake well before use and make sure the water is within a couple or degrees between temps…by floating the second QT container of fresh treatment water in the heated tank about an hour before you make the daily 100% water changes will help ensure equalized temps…be sure and attach the QT containers to the side of the heated tank they are floating in so they don’t sink or the treatment water gets diluted or worse the Ich transfer into the main tank…

Since yur plant is not a rooted type plant..I would just do a full tear down on the tank and clean it well, however, by the time you are done with the Ich treatment in QT…most likely and parasites in the tank will have died without a host..but if the tank has been set up for a while…a good cleaning never hurts and if it’s a new setup it won’t be a loss of good bacteria..easy enough to put the fern in another container that is big enough for the heater and the QT fish to float in to maintain heat so you can let the 2.5 gall , gravel, any decorations,filter and filter media..dry out for at least a day (24h) to be 99.9% sure any parasite in the tank are dead..just a thought..either way will work….and if you have already established the nitrogen cycle in that tank and you don’t want to re start it as long as the filter is still running the organics from the live plant should hold you cycle until the Betta is put back in the tank…you good to go it all in what you want to do…
If you leave it up and running unplug the filter and heater and theb give the substrate a good stir to get all the mulm/debris up in the water column and dip out most of the water refill with fresh dechlorinated water and once the filter is turned back on it should clear within an hour or so..do this daily until you put the Betta back in after the Ich treatment..

I would just leave the tank as it is..the parasites should die off on their own without a host while you have the Betta in QT


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

By the look of that one pic....it looks more like a missing scale than Ich

Even with Ich-I wouldn't do much with just one spot-often the fish own immune response will take care of it....sometimes the intervention or treatment itself can be the one stress factor that can compromise that immune response enough to cause a full blown infestation......

Since he is otherwise acting okay, eating, swimming, responding to you...etc......I wouldn't do anything other than regular care...

If at any point he clamps fins, more spots show up, becomes lethargic and/or starts flashing more than a couple of times a minute......then you may need to start treatment.....until then.....wait and watch.....


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay great thank you. Should I still siphon the gravel. Maybe only during water changes or something?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You should be vacuuming the gravel at least weekly along with a 50% water change....


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

What is his deal? I did a water change today and did everything the same. Added four drops of Prime and heated the water to 77 degrees the way he likes it. When I put him back in he is all mopey again like he was a week ago. He just lays at the bottom and drops his body on the gravel. Does he just hate water changes I hope he snaps out of this state


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> What is his deal? I did a water change today and did everything the same. Added four drops of Prime and heated the water to 77 degrees the way he likes it. When I put him back in he is all mopey again like he was a week ago. He just lays at the bottom and drops his body on the gravel. Does he just hate water changes I hope he snaps out of this state


I know Spike was a bit mopey when I did his water change. But Im thinking it was because the new water wasn't the same temp of the original water. Once the temp was back to normal he was back to his normal self


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't know what his deal is I kept him at the same temperature the whole time. Could it be that he is constipated. He doesn't look bloated but I can't think of anything else that can be bothering him. he was perfectly fine before his water change


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> I don't know what his deal is I kept him at the same temperature the whole time. Could it be that he is constipated. He doesn't look bloated but I can't think of anything else that can be bothering him. he was perfectly fine before his water change


It is possible the water levels aren't completely the same.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I always float and reacclimate after every change. If I don't my fish act stressed. So you changed 2 gallons? 4 drops for 2 gallons

If temp is.identical it.could be ph shift or other. Best just to float every time


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I did float him for an hour. Yup four drops two gallons


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I shall start the floating....would make sense, idk why I didn't do it. Spike will get a floating next time


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

All the siphons I've seen are overkill for a small tank, as well as expensive. I just use a 3 foot length of 3/8 OD clear tubing stuck through the bottom of a 1in diameter pill bottle. I put the hole near the edge and make it a tight fit. Then you can tape a long plastic stick (piece of coat hanger?) along the side of the bottle and up on the tubing. Old Fish Lady has a picture of a similar setup that I used for reference.

After some experimentation, I found that this combination of tubing size and pill bottle size gives me enough suction to pull debris out of the gravel without endangering the fish, and it doesn't take too long to siphon. I wouldn't use this on a 20gal (it would take forever), but for my 2.5g it's fine. Total coat $1.50 for the tubing.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

When i change them i put them in the see through cup and when i put them back i just add a little bit of new water and then slowly put them in the tank with new water. My water always approximately the same temp +- 2-4*. 

I am not sure how you guys do it, but is it ? Do you float them in the bag? Is it possible that he is like that because he was in the bag for 1 hr? Is it anything to do with water being hard? Is it good idea to shake water well and let it stay for 30 min or so before change? 

How is he? So sorry. Make me so sad after you did so much and he was so happy...


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know it was really stressful to see him like that. He literally looked dead in the gravel. But after fours hours he was perfectly normal again swimming all happy. He is so bipolar I don't get it. Is he gonna do this to me after every water change


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> All the siphons I've seen are overkill for a small tank, as well as expensive. I just use a 3 foot length of 3/8 OD clear tubing stuck through the bottom of a 1in diameter pill bottle. I put the hole near the edge and make it a tight fit. Then you can tape a long plastic stick (piece of coat hanger?) along the side of the bottle and up on the tubing. Old Fish Lady has a picture of a similar setup that I used for reference.
> 
> After some experimentation, I found that this combination of tubing size and pill bottle size gives me enough suction to pull debris out of the gravel without endangering the fish, and it doesn't take too long to siphon. I wouldn't use this on a 20gal (it would take forever), but for my 2.5g it's fine. Total coat $1.50 for the tubing.


thanks for the advice!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I got a siphon for 12.00... better than the expensive one I got with my 20 gallon. 

You can let water sit over night. This will allow some of the levels to adjust themselves... and will ensure the water is room temperature. You can float him, and adjust him to the water when you add it, just like getting a new fish. Some bettas do not take well to water changes, or slight changes and need extra care and precautions. I also use a square container. It floats, and my boys seem to like it better than a cup or bag


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh Karebear you scared me i was so sad. My heart hurt lol Glad he is better


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Oh Karebear you scared me i was so sad. My heart hurt lol Glad he is better


Aww Anhel you are too sweet  He scares me haha. He is so delicate, but Im gonna take Sena's advice and leave water over night


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Never know  I had to do that before :3 it also helps with chlorine levels, last I heard.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

the only thing is I don't have anything big enough to leave the water overnight. Any suggestions as to where I can get a big bucket that is 2 gallons. I have no problem finding one when I go home but at school its so hard to find one since I don't have a car. I have an unoccupied one gallon tank that I can use but that only covers half the water.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Do you have a large cooking bowl not being used? 8 cups = 1 gallon.  That is what I used LOL! Otherwise, go to a bakey. They often discard old buckets used for icing and dough. If you do get one, rinse very very very well with hot water and vinegar mix...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You think nearest store that you don't have to drive can have a gall of spring water or milk? If you use it from milk you have to rinse it very well. When i change my bettas i also using aged water. Well half of aged and half of warmer water, that i let stay for 30-40 min before i am using it. It funny i have like about 8 empty gallons under the table which drives my husband crazy lol. I wish you live close to me i would have empty gall for you lol

If you not changing him today you have time . May be you can buy a gall of spring water....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:3 I got a good number of buckets. But I guess since on average I change 3 gallons a day, and once a week about...15-20 gallons....


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> You think nearest store that you don't have to drive can have a gall of spring water or milk? If you use it from milk you have to rinse it very well. When i change my bettas i also using aged water. Well half of aged and half of warmer water, that i let stay for 30-40 min before i am using it. It funny i have like about 8 empty gallons under the table which drives my husband crazy lol. I wish you live close to me i would have empty gall for you lol
> 
> If you not changing him today you have time . May be you can buy a gall of spring water....


Oh yeah good Idea. I have access to a Ralphs so I will go there. Thank You


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Also quick question! How much should I feed him a day? I have been giving him two pellets and a blood worm a day. I usually spread it apart throughout the day. Ill give him one pellet in the morning one pellet in the afternoon and bloodworm at night. Should I do it a different way?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

FYI - 16 cups to a gallon, not 8... 2 cups to a pint, 2 pints to a quart, 4 quarts to a gallon.

I got a bucket at Target that has liters and quarts marked on the inside... it is about 4g total, dark blue, in the cleaning supplies aisle.

I have micro pellets (about 2 micro pellets to a regular pellet) and I feed 3-4, 2x a day- sometimes I substitute frozen bloodworms or daphnia. My guy is super active... I think he works it all off. =) For normal size pellets, I think the recommendation is 1-2, twice a day, so it sounds like you're fine.

Are you feeding frozen bloodworms or freeze-dried? I've heard the freeze-dried kind aren't supposed to be daily - more of a treat once/twice a week.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

they are freeze dried. guess I will cut down on them now and only give it to him twice a week. I can't tell if they are micro they are smaller then what I used to give my other bettas. I started using Omega one Idk if that helps with size?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

If they are micro pellets, they'll say "micro" or "mini" on the packaging. =)


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

WOOPS! sorry i meant 16 LOL... anyways.... I feed my females 6 each per day, and males 8. If per feeding, break it up per feeding. and one day of fasting.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I want to fast them once a week but they get so excited when they see me that i just can't resist lol.
I feed them with 3-4 freeze dried worms in the morning instead of pellets 2 times a week. Other days i give them 2 pellets in the morning and 2 in the evening. Sometimes i give them just one pellet 2 times a day instead of fasting. Also i give them sometimes cooked shrimp. Just a tiny piece of the shrimp ( size of a pellet. They all love it. Disadvantage is that if they miss it it very fast sinking to the bottom. So i am trying to do it when i do my 100% water changes . They usually grab it from the finger or couch it if they missed it...

For pellets I like Aqueon Betta food, New Life Spectrume. Also my bettas like TOP FIN Color Enhancing Betta Bits( bigger pellets the other ) 

But I think it good idea to fast them once a wk.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I swear I'm not trying to be paranoid. But im curious if anyone knows. All day Benz has stayed on one side of the glass going up and down. That is all he has been doing all day. I was reading some stuff on google and other people's fish do this but some people said that it has to do with lack of oxygen. I just changed the water yesterday so I don't think its from Nitrite or ammonia bugging him. Others said that it has to do with them not wanting to be in the "tank" which I guess kinda correlates with levels of chemical in the water... idk he hasn't stopped all day.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It's called glass surfing. No one has a solid evidence that says it's something in particular. Some of my boys did it in large tanks, others in small... Tank size, food time, something cool on the other side, lack of cover.... all can be possible reasons lol


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Should I be concerned? though I got a video of him doing its cute and all but Idk if I should be concerned lol


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Not really. There are a couple things I have tried... you have to try a bunch of things to see what makes him "tick" haha!! I moved the tank, I rearranged the decor, I added new plants he has never seen before, I've changed the tank isze (up or down), added a snail or other inhabitants if the betta is patient enough, added caves and hidey holes...


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah I feel bad cause there is barely anything in his tank cause the plants are in QT right now. I have a whole bunch of plastic and silk plants but I'm scared to put them in because they may be contaminated with disease from my other fish.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwaRNJnqD8E&feature=g-upl&context=G2ed2e71AUAAAAAAAAAA 
Here is the video haha he got more aggressive toward the end cause he saw the camera


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

he is acting totally normal 
looks really cute swimming like that.

BTW how are QTing the plants? Just for my reference. I'm getting Spike a new plant.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

This is my first time QT anything but from what people have told me You just put them in a QT tank. I have them in a tub with water and it has to be conditioned with a light so they won't die. I have no idea how to tell if they are safe for my tank. But you just leave them there for three weeks is safest. I have been changing the water every five days just so the plants have some clean water. There is this thread if you want to reference it and see what others told me
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=93997


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I quarantine fish 1-2 weeks, and plants 2-3 weeks. You can also tell the health of the plant by the tank it came from... never get plants from a tank of dead fish for instance lol!


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> I quarantine fish 1-2 weeks, and plants 2-3 weeks. You can also tell the health of the plant by the tank it came from... never get plants from a tank of dead fish for instance lol!


petsupermarket has a few plants that id love to purchase over time.
my only issue is they are in tanks that house their everyday fish stock. they don't have a plant tank.
should there be any signs i should be watching out in the plants/activity of the fish?

Also, on a side note, how would a betta do with a crayfish? Spike ate his ghost shrimp cleaners xD


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Plants should be healthy, there shouldn't be rotting material (plant or animal), fish should not have ich, other signs of illness (including gasping, blackened or reddened gills, rotted fins, etc)... Basically you want a competely healthy tank. Avoid all plants that are in a tank that has black hair algae... My girls got caught by their gills in that, it weighs the plant down, and takes over on anything living and not living (plants and ornaments I mean).


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

It looks like my heater malfunctioned today. Im going to return it. I have another on but it was in a tank with my other betta Malachi and I haven't disinfected his tank or anything. Its just been sitting there for about a week. Should I disinfect the heater? I hate to use Clorox for the tank cause I get so lightheaded How would I go about using Vinegar for a one gallon... Do i just let it sit there with the vinegar solution?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> It looks like my heater malfunctioned today. Im going to return it. I have another on but it was in a tank with my other betta Malachi and I haven't disinfected his tank or anything. Its just been sitting there for about a week. Should I disinfect the heater? I hate to use Clorox for the tank cause I get so lightheaded How would I go about using Vinegar for a one gallon... Do i just let it sit there with the vinegar solution?


You use the same percentage of vinegar as you would the bleach.
I'd let it soak a bit, rinse in hot HOT water, soak once more/rinse in hot water once more.
I'm a clean freak xD
I clean everything twice to three times


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> You use the same percentage of vinegar as you would the bleach.
> I'd let it soak a bit, rinse in hot HOT water, soak once more/rinse in hot water once more.
> I'm a clean freak xD
> I clean everything twice to three times


How long should I let it soak? I know I am so paranoid its ridiculous.

Also should i just let the heater soak in the tank too with the vinegar solution


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> How long should I let it soak? I know I am so paranoid its ridiculous.
> 
> Also should i just let the heater soak in the tank too with the vinegar solution


You could do that. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone/clean em both at the same time. 
If it were me, I'd soak em for 10-20mins. But thats just me, 5 mins may do great. But I like being FOR SURE than unsure.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

agreed


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Will A half a cup of Vinegar work for a one gallon or should I do a full cup?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm thinking about getting a different tank because Benz still seems really lethargic. I can't figure out what his deal is. I want something wider than taller maybe he will be better in that. I'm thinking about getting this one 
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753109

But i probably won't use the filter... what do you guys think?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I had that kit.... Get the 3.74 one, preferably, if you can. The filter IS adjustable, which I loved about it. You could have the flow touch the water or be above the water no problems... So the filter, can be used. It's adjustable to being: barely flowing, to, super strong. I suggest barely flowing xD that way it also helps keep sludge from forming!! I suggest the bigger one because it would be better for a heater (most heaters are 2 or 2.5 and up).


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

But If I use the filter don't I have to cycle the tank?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

No. I have seen 1 gallon tanks with filters - it doesn't mean they cycle  you dont have to, if you do not want to. plus i found with anything beneath 5 gallons cycling the tank is not worth it because it can get unstable more easily.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

He looks so bad again  ugh Benzema... Last night after I videotaped him swimming he went back to being depressed on the gravel. At first I thought he was just throwing a tantrum cause he hates the camera but then he stayed like that for three more hours and I went to bed this morning I found him still like that  So I took the heater out cause the tank seemed more cloudy. Then later when I came back from class he was semi active but then went back to laying in the gravel. When he lays there he just drops his body and his fins are clinched to his body and he doesn't move at all one would think he is dead. He has been like this all day. And also now that I don't have the heater he was probably cold. I just don't have the time to disinfect Malachi's heater to put in the tank. So I took him out of the tank and back in his little cup and am floating him in the one gallon tank with the heater but he is so down its breaking my heart to see him like that. He just lays there at the bottom no movement at all doesn't even care that he is in the cup  I don't know what else to do for him. And he will most likely stay in the cup till Saturday when I can get the new tank, but I will change the water


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Is it possible that maybe he just likes to be active certain times of the day?
Are you also keeping notes on what times he is inactive and active?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah I thought that at first but is it normal for them to lay on the gravel for longer than an hour? And yeah it just happens randomly. Idk Should I put him back in his tank? I don't want to stress him out moving him back in and out. Saturday SUnday and Monday he was fine and wouldn't just lay on the ground like that then he started it back up Tuesday and today it got worse.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

how long have you had him? some bettas just come sick or with an unseen illness that pops up.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I got him about 11 days ago. He seems so healthy and then he just has these relapses  He still eats so that is a plus but Idk what to do cause he shows no signs of illness other than being lethargic most of the time


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Check his gills. How hard he is breathing. And even use a flashlight on him - this'll rule out some things


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

He has no signs of sickness on his body. Scales look good. I did notice him sort of panting earlier but that was only once he has been pretty good about breathing normally. Should i leave him in the little cup till I get a new tank or should I release him I don't want to keep cupping him and uncupping him.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Now that I look at him it does look like he is breathing harder than normal? What does this mean


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Potentially gill flukes.
You need to do more than float though. You need to also introduce a couple tablesoons every ten minutes several times over. I usually do this 4-6 tlimes.

Smell the tank. Smell like anything?
Test your water,., what are ammonia nitrite and nitrate?

Is he getting pale again too?

I just recently went through a poisoning with my newest boy (fish drama at my house never seems to end..) I've got it narrowed down to a suction cup or some silk plants. Both have a very strong plastic smell that has leached into the tank.. smells mostly like the plants though so that's what i'm leaning toward..By Vibran-Sea


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

The only things in the tank was the gravel, heater and cave. The water didn't smell funny It did feel a little slimy. The water couldn't have had high nitrites and nitrates because I just did a water change on Tuesday 100%. The Only thing I can think of is possible clorox residue from when I disinfected it even though I did a thorough job so it comes as a shocker if that is the reason. He is breathing really hard is there anything else I can do for him? I have been adding water to the cup throughout the day


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Is there a tinge of yellow in the water? Was the heater in there before, or is it a new addition, and if so did the symptoms start then? Sometimes, heaters leach something into the tank. It may not smell, but the feel and definitely sight will show you. Bubbles around the heater, are also a hint.

Do you have a salad bowl? rinse it really really well and put him in for the night. See how he does, away from the objects and tank. put him where it is the warmest - and remember, heat rises!


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Is there a tinge of yellow in the water? Was the heater in there before, or is it a new addition, and if so did the symptoms start then? Sometimes, heaters leach something into the tank. It may not smell, but the feel and definitely sight will show you. Bubbles around the heater, are also a hint.
> 
> Do you have a salad bowl? rinse it really really well and put him in for the night. See how he does, away from the objects and tank. put him where it is the warmest - and remember, heat rises!


I don't have any good salad bowls. I have a plastic tub that I can put him in its .5 gallons. He was in there before when he was acting funny a week ago


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you put him in that .5 gall then just wash that plastic tub very well. I was thinking may be mild salt bath will help? Like Oldfishlady wrote before if he will became lethargic then do Aq salt? I think if he still lethargic put him in that 0.5 and do aq salt. 1tso/gall Only if he is lethargic. What temperature in your room? I have a few bettas at work and the temperature 70* and bettas are fine, so i think if your temp about that then it probably not the temperature that make him lethargic. 

Sorry that you go through that

EDIT: 
May be when you will put him in that 0.5 he will be better. Try to do 50% water changes see if it perk him up.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Agreed. If he doesn't... Well this is similar to how Nemphis acted. And I was so worried, he was only lethargic really - with some fin clamping. So I added AQ salt to his 0.5 container, floating him in his 3 gallon. After that he perked up.

AQ salt helps boost the immune system, if used for short periods of time (dissolved first as well!!!)


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

It appears that his breathing has slowed down, It was pretty bad last night. He is still pretty lethargic but I think it maybe because the temp dropped over night  He is a little more responsive than he was tonight. Hopefully he will perk up as the day goes on. If not maybe I will try some aq salt.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Actually I take that back looking at him better his breathing is still about the same


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Pre-dissolve some AQ salt... half a teaspoon. Add it over the course of 15 minutes, I'd say (if in 0.5 gallons). And keep an eye on him.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Should I just dissolve it in a small container with some of his water from the tub?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

that would be best, yes. I find it works nice in about a cup of water nHave you tried letting water sit overnight before a water change?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

What is the room temperature?
Sena sorry i have different instructions for aquarium salt. I learned it from Oldfishlady. 

Pre-mix 1 tsp/gall shake make sure it dissolved. Usually Oldfishlady recommending to do it for 10 days. If you started though you need to finish the course of it. You need to do 100% water changes daily.

But i want to understand if it due to the temperature. What is you room temperature.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Lets do a re-cap since this is 19 pages long.....

What started first, treatment list, age of Betta or how long you have had him/her...post an updated pic....
Current signs and symptoms

Is he currently in a small QT, water, temp, live plants, additives used, filter (I hope not) what kind of water changes are you doing-how are you making the water changes and acclimating to the new water if doing 100% and/or removing the Betta for water changes, appetite and type/amount food feeding.

More detailed and to the point the better.....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

No, Anhel, it's the same. But if it were a 0.5 gallon, it'd be half a teaspoon. The only difference is the slowly adding over time.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry you are right  

Thank you Oldfishlady


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Lets do a re-cap since this is 19 pages long.....
> 
> What started first, treatment list, age of Betta or how long you have had him/her...post an updated pic....
> Current signs and symptoms
> ...


Okay I got him 11 days ago. First day in tank he was very depressed wouldn't move at all. took him out of tank slowly became more active was in a .5 plastic tub. Re-released into tank last Saturday. After disinfecting cause of lethargy was thought to be clorox residue in old cave. Got a new cave, new gravel. he was doing fine until Tuesday I noticed him laying the the gravel again. I did a 100% water change. It was water change day. Then after water change he was mopey for three hours just laying in the gravel. He was semi normal again. On wed. He was glass surfing all day and then would occasionaly just lay on the gravel. Wed night he wouldn't move just laying in the gravel. Thursday morning I noticed the water was cloudy so I think heater malfunctioned. I removed it did a 100% water change and he has been lethargic since then. I removed him from tank and put him in cup in a floating tank with heater. At night I placed him in a .5 gallon plastic tub as advised. He was breathing very heavily yesterday. His physical appearance hasn't changed much. He looks slightly paler and his fins are clamped to his body. He has no plants because they are in QT. I use Prime four drops in a two gallon tank. I do remove him when I do 100% percent water change. He eats Omega one pellets about three a day. Right now he is just laying the the corner no movement what so ever


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

How are you re-acclimating him back to the water after the 100% water changes....what is the water temp of the tank.....


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes I have been re-acclimating him back leave him in his cup for about an hour and then slowly ad some of that water. temp is about 77 degrees He acts funny whenever I try raising it. Right now he is in the tub temperature is about 70. It dropped over the night.Today is the first day he refuses to eat. He wouldn't eat a pellet so I tried blood worm he ate it but then spit it back out


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Have you tested the water? (sorry if this was answered ><) and if so with what or where?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Have you tested the water? (sorry if this was answered ><) and if so with what or where?


I have a test kit:

-Nitrate: none
-nititrite: safe
-hardness: slighlty hard
alkalinity is about ideal
ph is 7.8


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

This is him right now . I put him in the cup to do a water change in the tub just because I wanted to bring up the temp. I got him to eat a pellet.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Did he get fin rot, or did you buy him that way? However his colors look okay,... Nemphis acted the same way and I could not figure out why. I ended up using AQ salt :/ Never really found out what was wrong but I didn't want him to die on me.

For other bettas you've had, have you had a similar problem? Did you buy them from the same store?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Its not fin rot he has blue ends they just look pale in the picture. Comanche was my most thriving betta never had a problem with him until he started tailbiting then it was all down hill from there but he survived a long time despite all his problems I bought him and Benz in the same place... Petsmart... Rufio I bought at another petsmart but he died on me in three weeks I did everyhing I could he def had ICH . And Malachi I bought at a LPS he died in three days due through malnourishment from the petstore  my friend warned me about that petstore... Did Nemphis improve with the aq salt


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yes, he did. Almost overnight! He was clamped, breathing harder, and his colors wre so off  I resorted to the "safer than meds but I sure hope it works" AQ salt :lol: He got better, in a short amount of time... And that was using 1 teaspoon per gallon... which is the usual minimum amount.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sena Hansler said:


> Yes, he did. Almost overnight! He was clamped, breathing harder, and his colors wre so off  I resorted to the "safer than meds but I sure hope it works" AQ salt :lol: He got better, in a short amount of time... And that was using 1 teaspoon per gallon... which is the usual minimum amount.


So if I use Aq salt I have to do daily water changes? And for how many days


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

It looks to me he has lost quite a bit of color :'(


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

To properly acclimate him to the new tank water: over about 10-20min-first dump about half the water out of the holding container he is in and slowly add small amount of the tank water until full-then dump half the water again and repeat the process-net or lower the holding cup to allow to swim into the tank.

Double check the dechlorinator label to ensure that you are using enough if you have both chlorine and chloramine in the source water-some require double dose...It is better to use too much than too little-it is really hard to overdose these products anyway.......

Get your water temp up to at least 76F-too many temp swings can be stressful on them even though they may be gradual-especially when the Betta is already stressed.....

I read all the post and from what I can tell.....and don't take this the wrong way.......you haven't given him time to adjust-by doing too much too soon you are stressing this poor fella to the point that his immune response is being compromised and its just a matter of time before he gets really sick if he hasn't already.......

Stop making 100% water changes for now-since he is new-he needs some time to adjust and making all these water changes and stressing over a lot of issues may be stressing him out even more.....over treatment can sometimes be worse than no treatment at all......

Right now since he is otherwise asymptomatic-I would recommend that you properly acclimate him to his tank, water temp at least 76F, no filter or water movement, turn off the light, hold food and leave him alone for 24h.

In 24h- turn the light on in the room he is kept-wait 1hour-then turn the tank light on-offer food-remove any uneaten food, in 3 days make a 50% water only change and again on day 7.......leave him in the tank for the water only changes-either use a small siphon or a cup to dip the water out and be sure the replacement water is within a few degrees of the tank water and dosed with dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank......

What kind of test products are you using, what are the number for the source water without any additives added......what is your source water....well water, bottled water, tap water and if tap city supplied water-does it go through any type of water softening unit on the house or faucet.....


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Okay The only problem is that Im scared of his tank since I don't know if it is possibly contaminated with the malfunctioned heater or something. I'm getting a new tank tomorrow and a new heater. Right now I have a heater and a small one gallon tank that I disinfected with Vinegar fish died about two weeks ago that was in it. I can put him in that but it would be bare just the tank and heater. If not I can leave him in the cup floating in the one gallon to make sure his temperature stays consistent. 

I use Prime. my water is tap water. I don't know if it goes through any softening cause I live in an apt on school campus.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

to disinfect containated objects, i use equal amounts of pure white vinegar and hot hot water. Some use less vinegar, but i like a strong solution that is sure to kill all contaminates.

tank: add the hot water, then the vinegar. fill the tank to about 2/3, take a clean cloth and even a tank scrubby and scrub it down. rinse 2-3 times, with luke warm water.

rocks: put into a strainer, and place the strainer in a bowl or a cleaned sink that is plugged (avoid stray rocks from plugging the sink). fill the sink or bowl with hot hot water, and then add equal amount of vinegar. use the end of a spoon to stir. let sit for 5-10 minutes. empty the water, rinse with luke warm water 3-5 times for best cleanse.

fake plants and ornaments: place in a bucket, bowl or sink. fill with hot water and place the plants in there. beware of items that have crevices, so remember to rinse really really well after adding vinegar.

these should help cleanse the heck out of the stuff you have. if you feel it is the heater, remove the heater. water bottles, filled with hot water and places around the tank can keep the temperature up during the night. i have had my bettas drop to 60 (SCARY), with no problems. but after that they were with hot water bottles for the night until i got a working heater.

testing heaters: place in a bowl 1 gallon or so big. turn it on, and let it sit for the day. bad signs: color, slime, foam, smell. good signs: no color, no slime (other than maybe heater snot xD), lack of smell, and no foam or bubbles forming around the heater.

daily water changes for AQ use is recommended, it will keep the water the freshest for the betta. if you feel he gets really stressd with being moved, remove water with: a baster (bottom gunk), or a bowl (will only get the water more than the gunk)


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Karebear how it going? How is Benz?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey Anhel. He is doing better I think. Idk he is so crazy right now. I left him alone for 24 hours in the dark. This morning I checked up on him and he is crazy swimming really crazy wanting to get out of the cup. I got a new tank today. Have been dealing with Fish duty all day. Right now Im acclimating him to his new tank. So we will see how he does. But he is a lot more active today  Thank You for asking


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh good i am glad. I was thinking all day long how are you doing  Just give us update. Good luck.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I will  I will be posting pics of his new home soon! And I got a new betta So I will be posting pictures of him too


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Addiction lol
I hope everything will be ok.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know. It is actually my sisters' since her first one didn't make it past three days  I have hopes for this one he looks healthy


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

New photos and videos... of Benzema who is doing much better and the newbie. His swim bladder seems to be very visible is this normal? 
Here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=1002701#post1002701


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

If he starts looking like he is "overfed" (not you fault) then no it is not normal. If anything, leave him for a day and if it either: gets worse, or does not subside, a little epsom salt is harmless and'll help clear him out. 1 teaspoon per gallon. I've used it on SBD victims, constipated ones, etc.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Oh no he doesn't have swim bladder disorder I mean you can actually see his bladder protruding a little... He is swimming fine I think. It was just weird cause it looks like a lump but my roommates fish has it too I guess its just their bladder but why is it so noticeable


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

For some bettas it is more visible. I had gotten....who was it.... Conan because he was in a gross tank at first, a couple weeks later rotting away in a bowl. How he laid it looked like a tumor so just in case....I got him. x.x found out it was just a swim bladder.

Like humans, bettas are different sizes - inside and out. Some are thinner at the base of their tail, which makes it so much more visible for the swim bladder.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

So update On Benzema. I added him to his brand new tank and he is still really sluggish and mopey. He occasionally swims and when he does he seems happy and alert, but most of the day he hides in his hut and lays there looking sad . I wonder if that is just his personality. there isn't much I can do for him I have done most of the things I could. It maybe like OFL said he just needs time to adjust I hope so. I see nothing visibly wrong with him


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

my new girl has to adjust as well. It's just a time game  bettas need between 5 minutes and 2-3 weeks to completely adjust x.x


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so wierd he was fine in his smaller tank right? Sena is it possible that he likes smaller space? Oh i hope he will adjust i feel so bad you did so much...
How is your sister betta doing?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know he has me so worried. He looks so helpless. He always has his fins clamped and when he doesn't he always only uses one to swim  Idk what is wrong with him. He still eats but he seems so lifeless. I have a one gallon tank that is unoccupied but I don't know how I would keep it warm He is use to 79 degree water. 

Anani is doing good he is such a peaceful fish, he is very mellow but he has his attitude sometimes haha. He is loves his new home


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So he is lethargic all day long? Before you transfer him to his new home did he was the same lethargic? I thought he was doing good?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know since Oldfishlady helped you before i would ask her. But i think if he continues to be lethargic (lying on the bottom all the time and swim up only to get air) may be you need to do aq salt.

Also i thought you wrote before that he like 77* and acting differently when you increase the temperature? 
 
Don't understand what possibly going wrong look like you do everything right way and he was happy before in that gall. May be he will be better there again. What is your room temperature? You don't have to have 79*


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

He was doing good for the first day in his new tank. But after a day he just lays in his hut all day and rests I guess. I guess I will try and drop the temperature a bit and see if it makes a difference. He was perfectly normal saturday. Idk its so strange to me cause he will be perfectly normal for a day and now Since Sunday he has been just laying there and has his clamped all the time.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think keep eye on him and see and if he continue be this way ask Oldfishlady if she think that you need aq salt treatment


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I wonder if he gets bored easily
Maybe he likes a different scenery everyday.

Or maybe he just doesn't like a bit environment.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

IDK. Im starting to think its the heater. Idk how it can be affecting him. But I ordered new one but I don't want to take the old one out in the meantime because the temperature will drop fast and he has been living in 79 degree water for about a week right now so Im scared the temperature fluctuation will make him worse so im kind of stuck with that heater till the new one comes. The heater seems to be working fine but the water looks really cloudy idk if its from the heater or what its brand new just bought it saturday


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> IDK. Im starting to think its the heater. Idk how it can be affecting him. But I ordered new one but I don't want to take the old one out in the meantime because the temperature will drop fast and he has been living in 79 degree water for about a week right now so Im scared the temperature fluctuation will make him worse so im kind of stuck with that heater till the new one comes. The heater seems to be working fine but the water looks really cloudy idk if its from the heater or what its brand new just bought it saturday


What kind of thermometer are you using? An actual thermometer (that operates inside the aquarium, held in 1 spot by a suction cup and shows your temp. reading by mercury rising and falling to the exact temp) is the most accurate thermometer to use.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes that is the one I have. I dont have it in the suction cup though Its just floating in the water


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Yes that is the one I have. I dont have it in the suction cup though Its just floating in the water


I'd find a way to keep in the water still
the very top of the water has different temps than the actual center of the water.
The top of your water can be exposed to different variations in the air.
So his actual water temp could be higher than what your thermometer is reading.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Karebear13 -

You're in good hands with OFL... try not to stress too much!

I can tell you really care about your Benz. In a small tank, your water should not get cloudy. It's normal for water to get a little cloudy in a larger tank during cycles because the bacteria is colonizing. What does the cloudiness look like - can you get a picture?

Here's one way you can change the water without stressing your guy too much: you can use airline tubing to drain 25% of the water out, and then either pour very slowly or use airline tubing to feed new water (dechlorinated, test with your finger to get the same temperature) back in. Repeat, spaced out over a few hours, as needed... Airline tubing is the thin 3/16" or 1/4" inch tubing that moves water fairly slowly, and you can move it even slower by adding a valve on the end. This shouldn't disturb or stress him out, and it will help a little with water quality. You can also use a turkey baster or medicine dropper to pick up any visible waste/dirt/fuzzies. Have you tested your water for ammonia/nitrites?

79* water usually feels a little warm but not much to your hand.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

mathkid said:


> Karebear13 -
> 
> You're in good hands with OFL... try not to stress too much!
> 
> ...


I know he has been my most loved betta because he is so tiny and helpless and to see him so depressed when I first got him to really happy made me feel so good that I was actually doing something right. But it has definitely been a roller coaster with him and his mixed behavior but I'm just not gonna mess with him anymore I'm just gonna let him be and hope for the best. 
I would have taken a pic but I just did a 50% water change. Seemed to clear it up a bit. I didnt want to do 100% since I didn't want to stress him out. thanks for the advice I will use it for future water changes.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Benzema is so silly. I have him in his little cup right now using it as his QT setup because I started an aq treatment. Anyway he is going nuts being in that small thing, but He still has five more days in it. When he sees me he goes nuts wanting to get out of it and starts acting psycho. So I made him a little curtain at my desk so he can't see me and he def calmed down. Every now and then I will peek at him and he goes all crazy when he sees me. Poor thing I feel so bad leaving him in such a small place but it seems to be doing him some good.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

lol!! well good luck with him haha


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know Im scared of putting him back in the tank because he looks so lifeless and I can't figure out what is it that makes him like that cause whenever I pull him out he is fine  I bought yet again a new aquarium its a 3 gallon so hopefully the new heater and the tank will make him happy


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've had bettas who needed motivation to not be so...."lifeless". flaring exercise, feeding time, warmer water, different filters... all can change it.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah before he wouldn't flare now he flares all the time even at my finger... Ive realized he doesn't really like anything warmer than 77 too I had an air pump but he hated it lol Hopefully he will be happy with some live plants and a snail im getting


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

well tweak everything until you find what you like  Dally did the same to me haha


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

I had my Betta Johnny for about a week now. He was very full of life with a great personality. 

Now he lies around very oddly, lifeless where he looks dead. He does it on top of a fake plant in his tank, he does it near the top of the tank. My best friend thought he was dead. He doesn't move, anything. He goes up to get air and becomes active for a few seconds then just droops back down. and repeats the samething. He still eats and comes to me when I open his hood. He started acting like this before i did his 1st water change. I'm worried that his dying or something. I had a problem with his water temperature from the heater not working, The temp is regulated at 75 right now. i feed him, and im about to do a 50% water change tomorrow. I've read a lot of comments on the similar issue. But he scares me because he literally looks dead. 

I don't have much decorations in his tank but 1 fake plant thats pointed, but the tips have a soft round end to not hurt him. I spent the money I had on a new thermometer and heat light. Could he be stressed out because he has no hiding area? Since I had him he constantly made bubble nests he made about 3 or 4. He did one last night and when I went to check on him it was gone. I think he destroyed it.

Right now I'm looking at him and hes just floating there sitting not moving. His fins nothing. Is he sick or depressed?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

The only one I have that are less active than the others, are the ones without filters (baffled, sponge or regular), or ones without heaters/lights/natural light. Or so I found :lol: they aren't sick, I think it has to do with environment.

Also, for instance, let's compare a 1 gallon bowl to a 10 gallon tank. 1 gallon bow, there is not much to do, and there is little room to "explore", and not many plants. Most of my bettas got bored, and either "laid there" or chewed up their tails. 

10 gallons, I switch plants around, new ornaments now and then, heated, gravel, live plants, filtered... room to explore, and new stuff


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Johnny, does your tank have a filter that moves the water alot?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think if he was very full of life and now lifeless then is something wrong. You saying that he started acting like that before you did water change or after? Just want to be sure..
Did you add enough water conditioner? What kind of the water conditioner do you use? Does he has any physical symptoms on his body? Is he bloated? How much do you feed him?

I also think may be it good idea to do your own post so more people will see it.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

what type of conditioner do you use? 
I would get him a cave or some kind of hiding place. My other one just floated at the top and now he is much more lively with his cave and his new heater.






johnny151 said:


> I had my Betta Johnny for about a week now. He was very full of life with a great personality.
> 
> Now he lies around very oddly, lifeless where he looks dead. He does it on top of a fake plant in his tank, he does it near the top of the tank. My best friend thought he was dead. He doesn't move, anything. He goes up to get air and becomes active for a few seconds then just droops back down. and repeats the samething. He still eats and comes to me when I open his hood. He started acting like this before i did his 1st water change. I'm worried that his dying or something. I had a problem with his water temperature from the heater not working, The temp is regulated at 75 right now. i feed him, and im about to do a 50% water change tomorrow. I've read a lot of comments on the similar issue. But he scares me because he literally looks dead.
> 
> ...


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Always posting at the same time


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

haha we all really care i can tell you that ...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol:

well, keep in mind each fish is different. Shiloh doesn't care anymore, even about the fanc colorful male long finned guppy in his domain :/ As long as he has his 20 gallon, he doesn't chew his tail x.x then there is Dally, who likes his 1 gallon bowl, then there's one betta who needs it less than 77 degrees (summer will SUCK for him), another prefers 78+.... ugh. lol


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Just curious how do you keep the one gallon bowl heated? Do you have a heater for it?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have him in the hottest room of course xDD I could get a heater for it if it weren't for the fact the only one I found for bowls (actually designed with low wattage for bowls, and shape is right too!) is on Amazon and Amazon hates me LOL.

But, he'll love summer x.x bowls tend to get to....80-90 here. Tanks up to 100! but no one seems to care xD


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> I have him in the hottest room of course xDD I could get a heater for it if it weren't for the fact the only one I found for bowls (actually designed with low wattage for bowls, and shape is right too!) is on Amazon and Amazon hates me LOL.
> 
> But, he'll love summer x.x bowls tend to get to....80-90 here. Tanks up to 100! but no one seems to care xD


That would scare me to see my tanks that high. If spikes house started sky roketing I'd take his heater out. Make conditioned ice cubs and plop one in every now n then.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Lol last year freaked me out!! One tank at 98, one at 95, another at 88. The bettas didn't seem to give a flap, but I did!! lol. This year....fans aaaalll the way xD My guineas are going into the room under the stairs. Smaller space, sure, but nice and cold. Or, I'll set up the spare room so that there are two fans and the window is open.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Lol last year freaked me out!! One tank at 98, one at 95, another at 88. The bettas didn't seem to give a flap, but I did!! lol. This year....fans aaaalll the way xD My guineas are going into the room under the stairs. Smaller space, sure, but nice and cold. Or, I'll set up the spare room so that there are two fans and the window is open.


WHERE do you live????


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It good to know. I know a lot of people probably would have that question about heater for 1 gall .If i would need heater for 1 gall i would not know where to look for because one that i saw in my local store scares me. I would really afraid to overheat the tank..
Do you know the brand? Do you know anyone has been using it ?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Betta...FZ4I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331569481&sr=8-2

Zoo Med. The only thing I see about it, is that it says it heats 5-10 degrees over your room temperature. Which in summer would be deadly. But it would be a "need" for winter!! lol.

And I live in Alberta, Canada. In my house, even the basement, it can get to...35 degrees celsius. sooo....95? Outside, it can get to 45... so...113. We've seen temperature swings up to 50-55 degrees!! so basically up to 130 x) for summer of course!!! Winter it drops to...lowest I've seen outside is -55, with wind chill (-67). In my house? 14 (57-58)... because people keep touching my thermostat D:

<<<<<<<< I love warmer weather. I have tropical fish and guineas who need cooler climates. Weird. :/ I shoulda thought THAT one through xDD


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Thank you for heater info  130 so hot. We have like 95-100* .I don't like it for my bettas. I usually put air conditioner...my husband drives me crazy when we leave for work he turn it off i turn it on when i come back from work..drives me crazy. But i also do extra water changes for my bettas in that hot weather. I think the warmer the water the more chance of the infection. I learned it from the doctor that i am working with. He also was a pharmacist and he has fish African sic lids in 75 gall tank..


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, too cold and too hot can increase chances of illness because it lowers the immune system. Bettas prefer 78-85, so when it goes higher it can cause problems such as fungus which thrives in warm weather... Cold weather let's ich and rot thrive better >< This year, I plan to stock up on loads of fans, and open every window with the blinds down.  air circulation = cool air. rather than pushing air around with a fan.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I've always kept my fish far away from windows and air drafts. In this apartment I really didn't have much room for my betta so he got stuck in the kitchen beside the stove.
When I lived with my mom I used to keep my windows open during the winter. Somehow Azul (AKA Fishy) lived through 75-70F and possibly even lower temps in his water.
I'd be happy if I could know that these fish will forgive me for being uneducated before getting one of them.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

All they know is "hey... is it just me or is it getting nicer in here?! WOOT better weather!!" :lol: I'm sure they'd forgive ya haha. At least you know now, right?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> All they know is "hey... is it just me or is it getting nicer in here?! WOOT better weather!!" :lol: I'm sure they'd forgive ya haha. At least you know now, right?


lol
right
now im OCD about my tanks. No body touches mea tanks!!!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Trust me. I threatened to smash a guy's fingers dare he EVER unplug my fish tanks again. If he doesn't like the sound of running water DON'T STAY OVER NIGHT and plunk off  MY house MY fish MY rules :lol: Good thing bettas have the labrynth organ. Otherwise I would have been cleaning out....13 dead fish :|


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

haha oh gosh. I had to leave Comanche for a month with my parents because I was going to be in Italy. I gave my mother explicit directions about feeding him. And she is a good listener and did things right but she told me that my Dad was like poor guy Karen is starving him and just shook the pellet bottle and gave him like a billion pellets thankfully my mom took most of them out that the piggy couldn't get on time


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> haha oh gosh. I had to leave Comanche for a month with my parents because I was going to be in Italy. I gave my mother explicit directions about feeding him. And she is a good listener and did things right but she told me that my Dad was like poor guy Karen is starving him and just shook the pellet bottle and gave him like a billion pellets thankfully my mom took most of them out that the piggy couldn't get on time


ROFL
And this is why my BFF is the only one who feeds my animals. She is the only one I can trust to FULLY follow every instruction to a T. I still worry about them tho. Because their my babies.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> ROFL
> And this is why my BFF is the only one who feeds my animals. She is the only one I can trust to FULLY follow every instruction to a T. I still worry about them tho. Because their my babies.


I know they really are! I was so worried about him during that month. I even skyped with him a few times LOL


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> I know they really are! I was so worried about him during that month. I even skyped with him a few times LOL


ROFL
I won't go that far as to talk to them on the phone or skype them.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

haha I didn't talk to him haha im not that crazy I just wanted to make sure he was still alive and swimming in his tank haha and checking on his tail cause he was quite the biter


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> I think if he was very full of life and now lifeless then is something wrong. You saying that he started acting like that before you did water change or after? Just want to be sure..
> Did you add enough water conditioner? What kind of the water conditioner do you use? Does he has any physical symptoms on his body? Is he bloated? How much do you feed him?
> 
> I also think may be it good idea to do your own post so more people will see it.


I wasn't sure to make a new thread since i was reading through this one and it was almost similar. But I think I will.

Thank you all for your help I can't multy quote everyone but i will try to answer all of your questions.

Johnny is in a 1 gallon tank, I originally was going to buy a 10g kit everything included but petsmart associate told me not to. said 1 gallon is better :shock: He had a filter but i had to remove it because it was to powerful for him. 

I use Aqueon water conditioner. for a 1 gallon i use 1/8 teaspoon as its 1 teaspoon per 10 gallon. but maybe i put too extra? idk. i try to be as accurate with the dosage as possible. i had issues with temperature because the petsmart associate gave me a crappy outside stick on thermometer that stood at 82 degrees and it wasn't. When i went to do his first 50% water change his water was cold. Not freezing but i could tell it was knowhere near 80. A brought a heating light for his light hood. instead of a heater which i had and didnt work. its a heat light and its working the temperature now is at a stable 75 degrees. I also brought a better thermometer that stays in the water. I checked the water with my hand and its warm 

He still eats and follows me around when i go near his tank. And still flows up to me. I feed him 2x a day. about 4 pellets each feeding. he has no physical signs that i can see or ailment. Just him floating around sittin looking dead. I also noticed today now when he stops he curls his body. his head/nose goes into the gravel, and he back is up like this ( but he snaps out of it and starts swimming again. Today I did another 50% water change, and since then hes been lively, swimming all around the fake plant, but he still curls his body when hes near the gravel like this ( Last sunday i did 50% water change thursday same week full 100% water change. Today another 50% water change. 

I thought he might be depressed from lack of hiding areas and just bored. does the curling mean anything?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hmm I would consider buying the Aqueon Betta Bowl Plus conditioner. Its a lot easier to measure the amount its a tsp for every one gallon.... Does he have a cave I would buy him a cute little cave my other betta perked up a lot more after getting him a cave


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

im going to have to get that 1, i didnt think the aqueons were different in doses until i went and they gave me the regular 1 teaspoon per 10g. so i basically had to mathemtically figure out the dosage. but imma have to switch it. Ever since i brought him i had nothing but bad luck. his heater didnt work. I originally wanted a 10g but was swayed by a employee not to0o. i should've never listened. They gave me wrong information on the filtration for a 1 gallon. They recommended a cheap horrible thermometer. And im left feeling guilty trusting these so called fish specialist at these pet stores. =(


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

johnny151 said:


> im going to have to get that 1, i didnt think the aqueons were different in doses until i went and they gave me the regular 1 teaspoon per 10g. so i basically had to mathemtically figure out the dosage. but imma have to switch it. Ever since i brought him i had nothing but bad luck. his heater didnt work. I originally wanted a 10g but was swayed by a employee not to0o. i should've never listened. They gave me wrong information on the filtration for a 1 gallon. They recommended a cheap horrible thermometer. And im left feeling guilty trusting these so called fish specialist at these pet stores. =(


in my experience the dosages change based on the container's size.
The larger the container the larger the dosage per gallon.

BTW return all those products. Put your betta in the cup he came in and tell the manager one of his employees gave you incorrect information and return all the products to exchange them for the products you want.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

rule #1.

Never.

ever.

EVER.

listen to a store associate. :|


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> rule #1.
> 
> Never.
> 
> ...


*nods head in agreement*
unless of course it is me xD
I've since left PetsMart tho, but don't be surprised if you find me working in another pet store.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

same here xDD I give tips on certain fish and i do not even work there! guess I look like I know my stuff.... random people will come up and think I work there, or in anotehr fish section, and ask me questions hehe :3


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Some of the employee are really bad ..I wish people just tell you that they don't know instead give you wrong info..or tell you something that they don't have experience with...
4 pellets 2 times a day i think too much. I am recommending 2 pellets 2 times a day. Well some pellet are really small for example New Life Spectum so I give them 3 pellets 2 times a day. I also give him a few different brands. I give a few dried blood worms 3 times a week. Also is good to fast them one day a week. 
While he is in 1 gall you need to do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes a week.

 I personally think 75 is the perfect temperature. My bettas in 74*. 

Filters really not a necessity for bettas. Water changes demand on how big is the tank. 

Not sure about that he curls his body. I think my betta does it too when he is on the bottom and looking for the food. It fine. Does he curls his body when he swim or when he stay on the top?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> same here xDD I give tips on certain fish and i do not even work there! guess I look like I know my stuff.... random people will come up and think I work there, or in anotehr fish section, and ask me questions hehe :3


Is it bad that I purposely wear a blue T-shirt with tan jeans just so customers think I work at PetsMart??


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

ANHEL123 said:


> Some of the employee are really bad ..I wish people just tell you that they don't know instead give you wrong info..or tell you something that they don't have experience with...
> 4 pellets 2 times a day i think too much. I am recommending 2 pellets 2 times a day. Well some pellet are really small for example New Life Spectum so I give them 3 pellets 2 times a day. I also give him a few different brands. I give a few dried blood worms 3 times a week. Also is good to fast them one day a week.
> While he is in 1 gall you need to do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes a week.
> 
> ...


I totally agree!!!!
It is worse to give bad advice than to tell someone "honestly, I don't know"


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

FishyFishy89 said:


> Is it bad that I purposely wear a blue T-shirt with tan jeans just so customers think I work at PetsMart??


Omg too funny!


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Omg too funny!


I've done it. And still do it on days I have NOTHING to do. Their "pet care" employees are lazy anyhow. NEVER in the area when you need em. Which works for me...cause people deserve better advice.

When I worked there I used to linger around the dog and cat food aisles. I eventually got fired because I was telling their customers how bad the cheap food really was for their pets.:tongue:


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

haha omg! 

My friend works there but she has been brainwashed by them. The other day she was telling me the whole mud puddle theory and I was like oh gosh... I never have a good experience at petsmart either... except today some guy was pretty smart about his stuff. Even helped me take eggs of the hornwort I bought! 

this is kind of off topic but I was just wondering do you know what is a good dog food?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> haha omg!
> 
> My friend works there but she has been brainwashed by them. The other day she was telling me the whole mud puddle theory and I was like oh gosh... I never have a good experience at petsmart either... except today some guy was pretty smart about his stuff. Even helped me take eggs of the hornwort I bought!
> 
> this is kind of off topic but I was just wondering do you know what is a good dog food?


I'll sum it up cause its a HUGE topic.
Read your dog food's ingredient label. 1st ingredient MUST be meat. (that is #1 priority for me). No wheat, no corn, no meat by products!!!

Chicken meal is better than just chicken. Chicken, fish, beef, lamb (etc) meal just means all the water is pulled out of the meat and it has higher protein content that just the meat itself.

No wheat because wheat is not in their natural diet. Neither is corn and their body does not process wheat and corn very well, if not at all.

Do you know what meat by product is? Well lets say your dog food had chicken by product in the ingredient list. That means your dog food contents: beaks, bones, feet, claws, feathers, organs, etc.

So as far as brands: Origien, Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo, Cail Natural, Castor n Pollux, EVO, Natural Balance, n Wellness. Those are just some of the top brands.

If you wish to check where your dog food ranks check here: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/brand/ :-D


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Anhel, I feed mine 4 pellets twice a day, with a day of fasting and have never had a problem... unless they were the huge pellets :lol: mine are the smaller ones, but when I had the larger ones I just gave 2 twice a day. But they always had problems eating them so I switched  also depends on the betta. some bettas can only eat a little amount.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well i don't fast them which i think it good to do. But i give them 2 pellets in the morning and 2 at night for all the time. I also give them freeze dried blood worms 2 days a week. And the day when i do 100% water changes i give them cooked shrimp or specula brine shrimp instead of the pellets though. I always afraid to over feed them


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Cooked shrimp is a good idea. Or in the case of some of my male bettas, live shrimp is delicious :/ :lol:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know it confusing i think we all feed them differently. The forum even had thread about how much to feed. Looks like everyone do it a little bit differently... But I think as long as we taking care of our babies and they happy and healthy it good


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

It also depends on what food your feeding.
Different sizes and different ingredient qualities change amount that should be fed.


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Some of the employee are really bad ..I wish people just tell you that they don't know instead give you wrong info..or tell you something that they don't have experience with...
> 4 pellets 2 times a day i think too much. I am recommending 2 pellets 2 times a day. Well some pellet are really small for example New Life Spectum so I give them 3 pellets 2 times a day. I also give him a few different brands. I give a few dried blood worms 3 times a week. Also is good to fast them one day a week.
> While he is in 1 gall you need to do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes a week.
> 
> ...


I didn't get a chance to come online, and unfortunately I cannot multiquote everyone but thank you all for your input. 

Ever since I've done Johnny's 50% water change hes been better. More lively. like his old self. I keep a change schedule every Sunday 50% water change every Thursday 100%. He only curls himself or leans over when hes at the bottom near the gravel or near the fake plant. when hes near the top of the tank he just sits and floats. I just went to petsmart again today and the same associate was there and I totally ignored her. I had knew what I wanted and purchased him a java fern and a hiding place. 

I was angry at first for spending all that money when i could've spent the same amount on a bigger better 10g. But I learned my lesson. Thanks to this forum and all the great people on hear I learned so much just in a few days. 

I was going to return the products, but the problem is if I had given back the 1gallon set and exchanged for the 10g, then I would've had to wait for the tank to0 cycle. which means I would've had to keep him in his cup, and honestly I kinda fell for this fish hes very friendly with me and alert. He has a great personality as-well. And I felt bad leaving him back in that store where he would most likely be neglected. Friday I'm going to purchase the 10g set, well not me, but its a gift. So i guess everything worked out thankfully. I'll just use the 1 gallon to store him for water changes i guess?

So 4 pellets 2x a day is to much?

I don't give him much bloodworms as he doesn't even like them. I tried to sway him by pushing the worms with my finger and he did eat 1. but after that he didn't bother. So I hardly attempt to give him that. And the fact those are more like treats anyway


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Is he small? What size are the pellets?

Also you said you bought jave fern? Is so did you put it in the tank already? Watch out for snail pesticides? I was told to leave the plants in QT for 2-3 weeks to look out for snails. 

Yeah its always nice to have a smaller storage in case you ever have to QT him it makes for a nice hospital tank. And you could even use it to do water changes. Glad he is doing better. My betta doesn't really like blood worms either. I wanted to try some frozen food like daphnia or shrimp that would be a nice treat for them too plus daphnia helps with digestion


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm come to terms with pest snails -.- they make lovely food for bettas xD


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> Cooked shrimp is a good idea. Or in the case of some of my male bettas, live shrimp is delicious :/ :lol:


 
The day when i do 100% water changes i feed them with cooked shrimp . I give them(2-3 pieces - 2 times a day the size of a pellet). They will grab it from your finger or some of them miss it then they try to catch it...But disadvantage it don't float it just sink to the bottom right away. I don't like food on the bottom of my tank that is why i do it when i do 100% water changes. They love to it it:lol:


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: I'd love to do that. I just gotta be careful - my bf is allergic to all fish :-( including shrimp


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You don't want to tempt him lol


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

yup lol he LOVES fish, he used to be able to have it if he had an allergy pill but it's gotten to a point where I pointed out next time his throat'll close up. so he isn't allowed fish.


and in the irony I own fish :lol:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

At least he can enjoy your bettas lol. It sucks because if you guys go to the restaurant I guess you not going to order fish dish because he can’t eat it. Oh sound terrible for me to say order fish for food. I hate to say it. Some people at work know that I love fish so I guess they don’t understand why I eat it. I used to buy live crab in the store and they cook it for you with all seasonings. Now I hate it. I can’t eat it because I feel bad to see them alive in the water all tie up. I still eat fish though…


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I like shrimp mostly :3 I go for the artificial crab - makes me feel less like a butt. :lol:


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

Karebear13 said:


> Is he small? What size are the pellets?
> 
> Also you said you bought jave fern? Is so did you put it in the tank already? Watch out for snail pesticides? I was told to leave the plants in QT for 2-3 weeks to look out for snails.
> 
> Yeah its always nice to have a smaller storage in case you ever have to QT him it makes for a nice hospital tank. And you could even use it to do water changes. Glad he is doing better. My betta doesn't really like blood worms either. I wanted to try some frozen food like daphnia or shrimp that would be a nice treat for them too plus daphnia helps with digestion


thanks =)
hes not small in size. Hes actually gotten a little bigger since I had him in my care. His pellets are small. I feed him the Aqueon pellets. Idk how to measure pellet size... but should i reduce feeding? I'm aware of the snail problems so i thoroughly washed off the java fern. idk if that helps. its only 1 small plant, but when I rang up the plant I asked out of curiosity how to put a plant in a tank, and they told me to just put it in? I didn't know about the QT thing before hand for 2 weeks. But I hope I don't wake up to snails all over lol/

I'm going to have to try those shrimps out. Have you tried those yet?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Its Okay Sena says they eat them  There may or may not been some snail eggs. Yeah Java fern you can tie it to something or bury it in the gravel. I don't know if its a floating plant though. Do you have a light for it cause otherwise it may die. 

I would reduce the pellet amount. Both of mine eat only 2 pellets in the morning 2 at night and Anani is a big boy but he gets constipated if I give him too much. Just make sure he isn't bloated and is pooping and it should be okay. 

I haven't tried that food yet, but I want to! Once Benzema is settled in his tank and his plants and he is doing okay I will spoil him rotten with yummy foods, but I'm just giving him time to adjust and what not...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

be warned, I once "just put a plant in" and it came with black hair algae that snagged one of my girls by the gill! :| I quarantined since then. I usually let some snails into each tank because hey...they clean, fish eat them if you squish 'em :lol:avoid plants from sickly tanks - clean tanks is the best! no sick or dead or dying fish, no diseases, minimal snails (hundreds of snails, half could be dead, aka foul the water!), green algae is okay but white and black should be avoided.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I put Benz back in the tank today. So far so good  except he somehow managed to split his fin!!! ugh Idk how there is nothing in the tank that could have done this all I have is a cave with no sharp edges. (plants still in qt) this isn't him but i looks like this 










Will it just heal with time? Or should I take any extra precautions


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

flaring. :lol: Flaring can cause a tear  it'll heal by itself. Just ask El Dorado xD Shadow used to do the same thing. Excessive flaring can strain the fins


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah I figured it must have been flaring. He hasn't stopped flaring at the heater. Eventually the plants will cover it up but they are still in QT (im ever so patiently waiting until they are safe but its killing me cause I just want to put them in already lol


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Really?!?!
Flaring can cause injury?? I'd never known that!!


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah too much flaring can cause them to split their fins Benzema exhibit a lol... My roommates veiltail did too once.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Veiltails are so bad for it lol. Some of my males, flare without effort or "strain" (some can see in as a fish vibrating, shaking or "trying too hard"), while most of my males try way too hard and injure themselves  flaring can also damage their face plates, by having them split! Ouch :/


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

owy
suddenly I don't want Spike flaring xD


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: flaring is good - just in moderation haha. Flaring 24/7 like Shadow did... ugh. He split his fins. TWICE. x.x 

Just keep the water clean when that happens. It'll heal by itself.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

But I can still just do 1 50% and 1 100% percent water changes right?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

If it's never caused problems before, go ahead  I do a water change every 2-3 days for 1+ gallons, and every week 10+.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Something weird is going on with Benz. I can't tell if he is losing scales or they are changing colors. He was completely fine like 30 minutes ago. Come back and he has this on his body. Im scared cause I haven't seen anything like this.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Its those goldish spots its like consuming his whole right side. He is acting normal though so I don't know I do know he is a marble


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm not sure if he has velvet because I was reading up on it. I can't really tell with the flashlight because he does look gold but it doesn't look like dust it looks like his coloring I know he does have a goldish coloring in his mouth part. But part of me thinks it might be because he does have a little twitch now and then. I haven't seen him rub against anything and he still eats and now that he is in his tank he swims around and responds to me. And his coloring looks brighter than ever so idk it just doesn't make sense to me. Here are some pics maybe someone can see something wrong.


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

Yikes. I had no idea about the splitting fins from flaring. good to know.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

first 2 pics look like scales are being lost... darting from fright, or in small spaces can cause this against the side of anything. sharp anything, ornaments with sharp insides, etc. The goldie color, I've seen on bettas which had that "gleen" about them beneath their actual color. Velvet, though, you are right - looks like dust, so if it doesn't look like dust don't worry yet... (someone who knows more of velvet help out?)


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

yeah guess I just have to wait and see if his behavior changes. Right now he is active, eating, responsive, non clamped fins. Minus the scale lost I don't see any physical appearance change. I still don't know how all those scales fell. I was gone like 20 minutes and he went from perfect scales to two rows missing. He never rubs off on anything when I see him and I practically am with him all the time cause he is at my desk. The only thing he has is his cave which he barely uses. Poor guy I can tell he is bored because all he does is pace back and forward... I can't wait to have my plants ready for the IAL to come in and to get his snail friend lol


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## johnny151 (Mar 1, 2012)

Karebear13 said:


> yeah guess I just have to wait and see if his behavior changes. Right now he is active, eating, responsive, non clamped fins. Minus the scale lost I don't see any physical appearance change. I still don't know how all those scales fell. I was gone like 20 minutes and he went from perfect scales to two rows missing. He never rubs off on anything when I see him and I practically am with him all the time cause he is at my desk. The only thing he has is his cave which he barely uses. Poor guy I can tell he is bored because all he does is pace back and forward... I can't wait to have my plants ready for the IAL to come in and to get his snail friend lol


I hope its nothing serious. But if hes still active thats a good sign. Do missing scales or ripped fins grow back?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

I know the ripped fins will heal. Idk about scales though good question?


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I hope scales do grow back.
When we went tarpon fishing in the keys the charter guy pulled off 3 scales for me.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

scales grow back. Shiloh is the evidence =D however, you know how even and tidy the scales are on a fish? unfortunately, some may grow back crooked, not at all (it will color up for the most part, but remain flat and undefined unlike scales), slightly raised, etc... Took Shiloh a good month to fully regain all scales, but that was also healing injuries and fins too. on his head, near the 2 scars, the scales are slightly raised - which is how they grew back.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Update on Benz! Such improvement since I got him. I knew something was wrong cause now he is super active... swims 24 7  His splits are totally healed and his scales are looking good. And his color is better than ever


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

awh
great
did you ever figure out what was bothering him?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

No idea what was wrong. There was no physical signs and he was eating and pooping normally. He was just ridiculously lethargic and pale. It was so strange too because he would just lay there then I took him out of the tank he was all better for about a week in his cup. Then bought a new tank was normal for about two days then he was super lethargic again wouldn't move at all was just completely clamped. Then did the salt treatment and now he is perfectly normally hasn't layed in the gravel since and its been about 3 weeks and he is perfectly normal. I also got a new heater so that could have been the problem cause that was the only thing I kept when I got a new tank. 

Here is a picture of how he was before 

So glad he got better


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Has water movement changed at all? Is his tank in a different position, spot?


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Nope nothing changed at all just new tank setup new heater


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Karebear13 said:


> Nope nothing changed at all just new tank setup new heater


hm
interesting

ona side note
i wish my tablet would start working
your bettas are so artistic


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am glad he is doing good. Sorry i didn't just read all pages but FishyFishy do you have problem with your betta?

Also Karebear treated her betta with aquarium salt right, which has antibacterial/fungal effect and very affective to treat bettas with certain symptoms of course.


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## Karebear13 (Jan 23, 2012)

Thank you! I know FishyFishy I can't wait for Anani's thing to be done but don't worry hopefully it'll work soon! 

yeah Aquarium salt did the trick I guess


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

ANHEL123 said:


> FishyFishy do you have problem with your betta?


No
I haven't had a single problem with my betta.
Thank God


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

oh good to hear Me too i guess we are lucky lol


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