# Grizzle HM Kio, and Blue HM Gem Spawn August 1st, 2013



## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I have successfully had my first spawn. No one was harmed, and seemed quite a bit calmer than I was expecting. Kio, the male grizzle hm, would swim over to Gem, the female, to let her know it was time to embrace again. It took about 2 hours for the spawning to be complete, and Gem did eat a few eggs, but luckily Kio would chase her off before she ate more than one after each wrapping. 

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The eggs hatched yesterday (August 2nd, 2013) at 3 pm, which was pretty much exactly 24 hours after spawning.

Today I decided to test water changes, and also counted every single fry and held them in containers until the water change was complete. I did however add the old water they were in, into the new water. I also harvested the bubble nest with a spoon and reintroduced Kio and he immediately picked up every single fry of the 495 and put the in the plants and bubble nest. 

I plan to leave him with the fry until they are free swimming and can swim to the surface without problems.

I have noticed however that the fry do already show differences in appearance. Not deformities, but some seem to be larger or have more 'color' on them than the others. I did cull 2 fry who seemed deformed and weren't very strong and appeared to struggle with moving even the tips of their tails. 

I have video documented of the spawn and the hatch.

My hope is that I won't lose many fry. All seem healthy and active.

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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Congratulations, Lamb! Both the parents are gorgeous. I'm interested to see how the babies turn out.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks! I'm hoping to get a few grizzles.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 3*

Day 3, all of the betta fry are free swimming. 
Kio is still being a good care taker so I will leave him in until they are transferred to the 20 gallon grow out tank. I did a 1/6 water change, all seem well even hours after the water change. Some are venturing to the other side of the spawning tank as Kio follows them to make sure they don't fall. 
I noticed yesterday that some of the fry didn't have yolk sacks? Maybe a reason for such a high death rate in fry? I added some green water and a small amount of mw. Kio seemed to be cleaning up the mw after I added it. I will be trying egg yolk later before another water change which will be a 50%. My hope is that the stunt hormone will be reduced early on and the fry will flourish in the conditions I'm providing. I do need to purchase more jars if the majority make it to the grow out tank. I only have 100 sets.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 3 Continued...*

Added some green water from a votive outside, there were worm like creatures in the algae so I had to be careful. Not quite sure what they are, but I managed to add 3 pipettes of green water to the 6 gallons in the spawning tank. I also introduced some daphnia to the grow out tank. I'm hoping to start a colony there so the fry can eat them when they are old enough. I'm going to have to be careful not to siphon out the daphnia when I change the water, but hopefully since the current is low on the filter, they will grow and add some vital nutrients to the fry's diets.

At 2:30 pm today I had to take Kio out. He ate a few fry, I thought he was going to spit them back out like he normally did, but alas, they never made it out of his mouth. I will be counting the fry again when I move them to the grow out tank. I think I may move them at one week old, there is much more surface area in the spawning tank, and it may prove too difficult to feed them in the spawning tank. I've since added a good amount of green water and twice with mw. I will be changing the water more tonight. I think I may do another gallon change but I'm not sure. I may wait to do another change in the morning. Today may have been too stressful.

In the pictures you can kind of see the slight differences of the fry.
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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 4*

9:00am~This morning upon very close inspection I found 2 fry dead. There was fungus starting to grow so I've decided to do another 100% water change. There are still a lot of fry, so I don't think I've lost too many. I have fed watered down egg yolk, though I've only noticed a few eating it. 

The fry are currently in containers floating and acclimating to the spawning tank. I'm tempted to just add them to the grow out tank, but I want the heater to become more stable since it's brand new. 

In the grow out tank, the daphnia seem to be happy and there are still quite a bit in there and the eggs are still floating on top. I hope the culture continues to grow until the fry are big enough to start eating them. 

I will let the fry acclimate until my baby takes her afternoon nap, then I will be doing another head count of the fry and putting any deceased into a cup to later inspect. From what I see they had fungus, so hopefully this water change will prevent others from dying.

I realize some people may think that it's too early to start water changes, but I have noticed it's way too difficult to remove all of the food that is added to the tank. The tank has so much surface area that the fry are always so spread apart minus corners. They seem to frequent corners. I will continue to do water changes as I feel necessary. No one seems too stressed about them, and this is the third water change they have gone through. I hope this is helping more than it's hurting.

12:30~Finished the head count, I am down to 410 fry. After inspecting closely, I only found 6 dead and 4 were undeveloped eggs. I am assuming Kio ate more than I had thought. I should have taken him out yesterday morning. I won't be leaving the male betta in with the fry longer than 3 days. 

I'm very disappointed that 85 fry are deceased. It seems pretty high considering. Hopefully the clean conditioned water will prevent others from getting fungus. I will also leave the cover on longer in the day. 

I have fed another dose of MWs. I'm hoping the fry are eating, but I only see a few actually doing so anytime I feed. 

I will feed boiled egg yolk again later today, probably before bed.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm confused... Do you have 85 or 410 fry? I'm sure I'm missing something here... Lol. As long as you are careful water changes at this age will be fine.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I am down 85 which means I now only have 410. Sorry! I need a better choice of words!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Oh... No prob. I should have read more carefully!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

No. I can see how it could be confusing. I'll change it now. Thanks Matt!!!


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## Emparios (Jun 20, 2013)

Ooh, the parents are beautiful ^-^ Can't wait to see the babies when they've grown!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thank you! The fry already vary in appearance, at first I thought it could be gender, but after observing them there are several different shades, including some very pale. I am hoping for some platinum like dad.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 5*

This morning I found that fungus is continuing to grow. I've found 3 dead fry, 2 from fungus and one from unknown reasons (didn't realize there was food maybe). That would take me to 407, though I'm not sure because I did not do a head count today. I think I might move them at one week to the grow out tank. Other than that I fed with MW this morning at 7 am and completed a 2/3 water change.

They fry look great otherwise. I'm excited to have learned that the color variations mean the different colors. I'm hoping that the 50ish super white ones are platinum like their father. I can't wait to see for sure!

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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Cute! Can't wait to see them grow! :-D


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

Since the water is really low when I first breed, I usually just add more water a little at a time(via a drip line) until it's full instead of doing a real water change.Turkey baster to suck up the bits on the bottom. 

Doing a huge water change can stress the fry(quick change in water conditions/temp if it wasn't brought up to temp) and that can lead to death.
Most deaths tend to happen in the first week or two, too.


My grandmother is on oxygen, so we have a lot of long air cords laying around. I find I can cut to length and thread through a stiff tube(or, like those portfolio clip things everyone uses to divide tanks) so it doesn't float and I can siphon/vacuum out the stuff every day/twice a day without bothering the fry the hole is small so you don't risk sucking up fry.
I use the same cord to slowly add the new/clean water.
This means in my ten gallon I can do two separate 2-4 gallon water changes a day without bothering the fry much(if anything they seem to like following the thing).


To each their own though, you have a decent sized spawn it seems so you'll still have your hands full.

Sorry to hear about the fungus, bleh.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm using a shallow clear plastic tote for the spawning tank. I haven't moved them to the 20 gallon yet, so there's no room to add water. As for finding ways not to disturb them, I haven't found the best options yet. But I figure that if any die due to stress they were probably not too strong in the first place. I only found 3 today, and the 85 from yesterday was partially fungus but mostly Kio eating them. He's made SO MANY movements already. I believe he ate most. I think cleaning the tank is helping more than it's hurting because I do 2 water changes a day, one larger one in the morning and partial one in the evening. 

I bring up the temperature to the tank temp every time I change water. I check with a digital aquarium thermometer and a infrared thermometer to make sure it's as close as it can be. 

But since you bring up the drip method, who exactly do you do it? I can only think the water container has to be higher than the tank... I don't know if there's a place for me to do that.


And Thanks lilnaugrim!!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah the container you'd be taking water out of has to be higher than the tank for the flow to work since it also works on suction. Can't get a high chair or something like that?

When I do drip, I get some duct tape and tape the open end of the tube to the bucket I'm taking water from and make sure the tube reaches to the bottom first before taping. Then on the other end you tie a knot or two and that rests in the tank that you're moving water to. Then you start the suction by sucking on the knotted end of the tube and adjust water flow with the knots and voila, drip method


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Lol. I have a high chair, but it's lower than the kitchen counter, which is where the spawning tank is. :/ I think maybe if I clear out the cabinet above it, it might work. 

Thank you for the instructions! I think I'll try it tomorrow! How long does it take to drip a gallon of water?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can always stack things, it doesn't have to be fully higher than the tank, just higher than the water line. And it depends on how much you're dripping, if it's 1 drip per second then, actually I don't know how long it will take since I don't know how many drops are in a gallon >< lol but I feel it's not much longer than 50-60 minutes, it will be faster if you have more than 1 drop per second though.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Sounds good. What amount would be the safest, without being 'too safe' about it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

What, you mean how many drops per second?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Right. Without babying them too much. I want to make sure they're healthy, but also that they're adaptable.


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

The water container is higher, I have my tank between two in-wall shelves(like where people would set up a TV).
I use the same time of thin air hose as I do to suck water out, but pinch it a little to slow it down even more when I clip it to the tank.

lilnaugrim explained it really well. xD

for length of time, roughly an hour? Mine does about 2 drips per second, but it can go to a slow drizzle.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah I agree with bambijarvis here, anything from 1-3 drops per second would probably be just fine


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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

How did I miss this? I didn't even see it until just now! The fry are SOOOO cute! I'm totally gonna want a couple from you!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

lilnaugrim and bambijarvis thank you! I'm going to try it out today! 


Shannon! They're great! I really hope some turn out like dad!!! I'm really wanting some females like dad to keep. And trying to produce platinum purple grizzles!  There are a lot of white looking ones, so hopefully I get platinum!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 6*

I fed the fry with MW this morning at 5, and did a 2/3 water change again at 7. I only found 1 dead fry, and that was due to fungus. I've noticed today that the fungus isn't just on the bottom, but floats around so I started today's change by suctioning the bottom for debris, then took the air hose and sucked up as much fungus and debris flying around as possible. I then took containers and took some water from the top until the water was just at the top of the heater. Then I took the turkey baster and sucked up as much fungus and debris as I could. I'm assuming the amount of fungus is due to the boiled egg yolk, so I won't be feeding them anymore of that. 

The fry measure at 1/8". I'm not sure if that is normal, but they are bigger than they were newly hatched.

Still 1 dead is better than what I have been getting. I guess the unknown deaths other than the ones Kio ate, were due to them being weak, and things are starting to even out.

I hope to move to the grow out tank soon, but we'll see.


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## plakitlover525 (Aug 4, 2013)

good luck with the fungus


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 7*

I've come down with the flu, so I won't be doing too much today. I did feed "instant baby brine shrimp" with great results yesterday and this morning. I see more fry eating it than with MW or boiled egg yolk. If it continues to work, I think I've just made my life a bit easier. 

I hope I'll be able to do a water change today, but it's doubtful. Fever of 102... not fun but I think I'll at least try.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

awww I hope you get better soon Lamb :-( that's no fun


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

Be sure to rest up and take care of yourself, too.
Best wishes for a quick recovery.


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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

I hope you feel better quickly! Lots of rest, and drink lots of vitamin c (like OJ).


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I was pretty miserable yesterday, and I feel a bit better today, just a little weak feeling. Makes me smile that you guys care though!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 8*

Well I've moved the fry to the 20 gallon, upon head count (may have not counted them all) I have 335. The instant brine shrimp seems to be working pretty well, the fry eat them no problem which is refreshing.

I lost quite a bit, I'm assuming because I wasn't able to do anything with them yesterday other than feed them. 

Good news, the largest fry are 1/4" today. I can see their ventral fins really well which is exciting! Crazy how fast they're growing! Some seem to look pearly, so maybe I will be getting a few that are like dad!


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

Glad to hear you're dong a bit better.

335 is still a huge number. xD And yeah, they grow amazingly fast, especially with frequent water changes and good foods.

are you feeding the instant brine shrimp that come in a jar or decaps?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thank you bambijarvis! 

And I know, but considering I started with almost 500, it's kind of sad to think I've lost so many.

I'm using the jarred stuff. Didn't think of decaps. Lol.


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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

I wonder what they would have looked like. :,( 
Glad you're feeling better though.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I know... :'(


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

I haven't tried the jarred stuff yet(I can never find it when I want it and then I forget about it).

I use decaps and have since I first started breeding(They came with a starter kit.) They just worked. xD I have yet to try hatching any live ones since I don't want to invest in a can and not like it. ~shrugs~


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I ordered it on ebay, but it's great so far. It was $13 for a jar though and it can only be kept for 6 weeks. I wish I would have thought of decaps!!! That seems like a better investment.


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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

Is it 6 weeks from when you open it or 6 weeks from when it's jarred?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

From when you open it.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

What beautiful parents! I can't wait to see them grow.


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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

That jarred BBS seems more convenient than hatching it every day.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks Hail! 

It really is Shannon. I hate hatching them so I wanted to find an alternative.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 9*

Very excited! They are getting pretty big! Some are still small, and seem to be the weakest ones. They seem to be doing great in the grow out tank. I am contemplating culling the weakest ones that seem to have trouble moving or swimming, I will wait a little longer to see if they'll catch up but I've made the decision that if they seem weak now, then they will most likely be weak fish if they make it to adulthood. So if they don't show improvement within the week, I will be culling via feeding them to the other betta. I also think that I will be breeding Kio to the purple hm female I have (Selene) in a week or so. I'm hoping to start a purple grizzle line in addition to the blue grizzle. 

I can't wait to see the fry grow up and show more color. There are soooo many pearly white ones! I'm so excited about that! I want to see what the others look like, but the white ones are the ones I'm more interested in. I will wait to see what they look like in this spawn, then I may cull the other depending on what results there are with other spawns with Kio. 

I will be investing in heat tape though to heat the jars. I have 250 jars, so I will most likely set them up on shelves made in my closet or make a bookcase to hold them in. I'm estimating 10 feet of the 21 inch width tape or 20 feet of the 11 inch tape. We'll see. I will most likely purchase the thermometer and other supplies then buy the heat tape afterwards.


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

Seems like ou have a good plan going. 
I love the bookshelf idea. There are are alot of guides for setting up betta barracks and drip-systems out there, too.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks! I'm pretty excited. 

I was leaning towards the bookshelf as well, now all I need to do is draw up some plans. 

And LOL! I'll look into the drip-system after I have the heat tape. I feel my eyes getting too big already.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Sounds like a good plan. Hopefully the weak ones will get stronger. Do any have bright stand out colors yet?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks! And not really just shades of fleshy colors with black, but the pearly white ones stick out pretty well now.  I have a feeling I'll be getting a bit of blue solids. I think I'll wait to see what they look like before I start culling for color, but the weaker ones that just hang out at the bottom and don't really move too much may have to be. There are a few that are as tiny as if they just hatched, so I may end up culling them as well since they're a bit behind in developing.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Aww poor baby's. Pearls are beautiful! I can't wait to see!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Yeah, there's only a few, but they're runts and I don't see them being very strong fish in the future. I don't want to sell anything that won't be quality, including health quality. 

And I agree! I'm thinking they may be showing the platinum that dad is.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Often times the smallest ones in the begginings catch up and turn out to be some of the highest quality in the spawn, actually. I've seen it happen and it's neat because you don't think there's any hope and then they wow you. Lol.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I'll give them a chance then!  But some of them do seem a bit slow, some look like they rest on their sides?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm just talking about the small but healthy ones... Runts that aren't doing so well are different, if you know what I mean.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Right. I wouldn't cull them if they aren't healthy. I'm just talking about the weak ones right now. They aren't very active and only move when prompted.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Any new photo's?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Lol. None that you can really see them, I will try to get better ones today with the water change. 

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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 10*

I lost a few fry, I didn't bother to count, but the heater flooded and the temperature dropped to 70... ugh! The majority are still alive and I am sure that the ones that passed are the weaker ones, so not a huge issue, but still very sad... I am using a temporary 50 watt in the 20g set at 90 to keep in in the 80s range. 

I completed a 95% (only about an inch of water left in the tank) yesterday and then a 25% at night. 

Today I will be doing another 95% water change, and I will also try doing a second change at 50%.

Ugh! I am so upset about that heater!!! It was brand new! I've ordered extra 100 watts just in case this ever happens again.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 10 Continued...*

The water is a bit cloudy. I think it may have been due to the IAL I used. I have since taken it out and am no longer adding stress coat. Other than that the fry seem to be doing better. The temperature is at 87, but there is currently only about 3 inches of water since I am dripping water back into it. 

I fed MW again today, I figure it will give them a tiny break from BBS. I will be doing another 50% later tonight to clean it up a bit more and will be rinsing off the plants.

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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Wow! Look at them all. This makes me so excited for my first spawn.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

It's crazy! I didn't think they would all be fertilized because Kio kept releasing as soon as the first egg dropped. Lol. But they did go at it for 2 hours non stop other than picking up the eggs. 

Have you picked your pair yet?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

OMG BABIES! lol, they're all so tiny and so cute!! Those are some super nice pictures Lamb! Good job :-D and good job to Kio as well ;-)


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

So many babies. xD
Can't wait to seem them grow.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes I have. My HMPK DT male and HM famale that has DT geno. She should be here by the end of the week. I can't wait!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone!

And Hail. That's super exciting!!! I'm assuming you're wanting to produce HMPKDTs? Lol. I do like your male though!!!


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes. The female is yellow,purple, blue and a hint of red so in hoping for some amazing colors too.


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## JayM (Aug 4, 2013)

Awwwww so cute.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Hail, she sounds gorgeous!!! I'll have to get one from your spawn for sure. 

Jay Thank you! They're doing great and seem very promising.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Her is a photo of her from the seller.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

oh HER! I totally forgot you got her! Yup sign me up for like 100 of them.  Lol. Just kidding... kind of...


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

Lol Your the first on my list.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Any updates?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi everyone! Sorry it's been so long. I have a lot of personal stuff going on and taking care of everyone has been taking up all of my time.

The fry are doing great! I did end up placing most of them with someone who breeds here locally so I only have 30-50. I had thought I would have to move, but things came up and I'm staying here so I'm a little upset at myself that I gave so many of them away! But they are healthy and doing great, the largest are well about a quarter inch long.

Since I updated last it seemed that things kind of chilled out and there were very rarely any deaths. One larger fry though looked like it had bent in half? I don't know what that was but it was healthy prior, or at least I though it was.

I think since I'm staying here I'll attempt another spawning. I'm thinking of doing my yellow male and yellow koi female next or my pastel plakat and one of my HM females. 

Overall this has been a great experience.
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## shannonpwns (Jul 15, 2013)

Maybe you can ask for them back! Lol. Or just do another spawn, that works too! They are so cute! I can't wait to spawn mine in a few weeks! 
Will you still be selling these fry when they are old enough?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I think so. I'll be upgrading my sorority and keep a few females and choose one or 2 males to keep. But I'll definitely let you know.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 25*

I've been doing 19/20 gallon water changes daily and the fry finally had a growth spurt! There were so many tiny ones that I thought they wouldn't catch up, some are still a little small, but most grew a hefty amount in the last few days. Most are 1/4" but there are some that are 1/2" long! 

I'm sorry I gave so many away, but the ones I have are doing terrific so I can't complain much. I'll be sending a pair to spawn in the next week or so. 

I may try spawning Kio again, but possibly to a different female. 

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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

*Day 26*

I think I'm going to try an experiment and take advantage of the nice weather we're having. 

I will be jarring 3 or maybe 5 of the larger betta fry and keeping the cups outside. They are about 1/2" long so they should be big enough to eat larger mosquito larvae if they don't eat the eggs and such first. I will be doing water changes daily but try to keep whatever larvae or rafts in the water for the fry. I will feed them bbs once daily to make sure they are getting nutrients. 

The highest the weather will be for 10 days is 87 degrees so the water should be perfect for the fry!!! Plus there is a nice shady spot on my balcony just for them.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

They look great!


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks! They keep growing out of nowhere!


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

My only real concern would be the cups getting knocked over by a cat or something.
But I'm a worrywart, don't mind me. ><

Keep up the water changes. The less growth stunting hormone in the water the better. xD Cute fry, I love them when their that small.


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

To Cute!!! I can't wait to start to see colors.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone!!! The largest one is showing blue iridescence. 

I'll be jarring that one and putting it outside. I'm thinking the mosquito larvae will be good for it and separating him/her from the others will benefit the others because she/he is twice the size of the medium sized ones!!! LOL. 

I'll update everyone on the 2nd.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

They're officially 1 month old! YAY! They're doing great, super healthy and seem to be getting bigger everyday. 

Taken yesterday evening.
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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's been a month already???  holy mackerel! Well congrats on that! They look good!


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## ashleylyn (Mar 30, 2013)

Yay they look great!!


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## Hail0788 (Feb 14, 2013)

They are growing so fast! Congrats on 1 month!


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