# Blue Hm to a suitable female - Looking for suggestions



## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Hello,
I am getting this male soon and I wanted to find a suitable female to breed out his faults. I'm looking for suggestions on what anyone would think would be a good match for him. In other words, I have a pretty blue duckling that I would like to turn his offspring into a swan  Any comments are welcome.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm going to sit here and wait to see what other's say---don't mind me! lol


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

He hee! I'm going to wait too


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

I already read the entire other thread. I'm gonna sit here as well. xD I would love for you to find a beautiful female to breed him with. He's gorgeous!

Edit: He also looks like a full mask dragonscale to me. Is that a trait that you would like to pass on?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

I see short body, multitipped ventrals, jagged edges on dorsal and anal and uneven topline. Doesnt look like exessive branching in the tail but theres def something going on to give him the ruffled edges. And ideally his anal would line up with his caudal although its quite good compared to other hms Ive seen.
He does have a nice colour except for the yellow wash in ventrals, and a nice, broad forward pointing dorsal. He also looks to have black in him.

Female wise Id go for smooth edged finnage, longer body, no red and first dorsal rays long not short. If you can get those first rays of his dorsal to be the same height as the rest of it then Id fall in love.

Good luck in finding a female for him :-D


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Lilnaugrim mentioned the dragon scale too. I would like to pass that on but I guess it will come down to the female and what traits/ genetics she has that will improve him. I might not be able to find the female with the color, form, scale, pattern, etc I want all wrapped up into one fish


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I am going to cross my fingers and see if I can find such a female. I am hoping through talking to breeders and the boards someone will point me in the right direction to find her. I should be getting a pic of his sibling and another female from a show breeder. I will post them when I get them so I can get some feedback. So do you think a VT is the way to go with him or are there other finnage types I should consider?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I was just taking a gander through AquaBid to see if there might be any good matches. So far I haven't found any good Dragons except this girl is part Dragon I think...hard to tell from the pictures. But nice sleek long body would be great for him and she's only got 4 ray count which is good! It's messy but with the cross it might come out alright. I'll wait to see what everyone else thinks about her. She's also got the nice deep blue color too.

Link to her bid: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371547525


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Yes she does have a great long body which would balance him out and love the color! I am watching her on Aquabid and see what people think about her on here. Thank you so much for helping


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My only things about her is that her fins aren't clean and straight and the dorsal doesn't meet the caudal and then her first dorsal ray is really short. I think his heavy finnage will help with the dorsal not meeting the caudal but I'm not certain about her first ray being so short like that. And then just the messy finnage.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Right I understand what you are saying but she is something to compare and think about  I'd like to see smoother/cleaner fin edges on him also.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup! I'll keep an eye out for other girls as well to see if anything else catches my eye


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

This one has smooth fin edges and broad dorsal
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1371299923


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

She's nice too. But she's got a higher ray count, isn't that not ideal in this situation since he's got more of a rose tail? Or does 6 ray's not matter as much.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Here is another one that I am looking at... Her anal fin is not full, tapers. She is light blue. Her fins are straight. Dorsal tail is closer to caudal. She does not have a higher ray count. I think... tell me if I am wrong. LOL! I'm learning here.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I am guessing a straighter anal fin would be desired not tapered?


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

She has 4 rays, so she's on the lower end which is good for this situation. She is beautiful, but my problem would be how her anal fin tapers like that.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm not sure if that matter's much, I feel as if it would just reduce the anal portion on the father, yes? Probably not, but just seems logical


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Then I was looking at this aqua butterfly. Not sure about her body...
And another blue, same thing the body I am not sure about.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Although her fins are great, I think the first thing to fix is his topline and body which the slimmer, longer females will help with that.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Blue, not sure again the body.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

The other females have a nice long body and topline.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

So, what causes messed up toplines? Is it that the vertabrae don't change quick enough as the body proportion does, therefore resulting in bones that aren't straight or what?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Eh not crazy bout that last girl. Her top line doesn't look great at all and she's got red ventrals. I know to get rid of a red wash you introduce a yellow wash but I'm not sure if it goes the other way as well. Perhaps Trilobite can chime in on that.

EDIT: I'm not sure exactly what causes it but he looks like he might have some DT in his lineage somewhere. DT's cause shorter bodies and generally a messed up top line from what I've seen.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

kbraucci said:


> Blue, not sure again the body.


That female has a dent in her topline. You want it looking smooth and gently curving to move with the body of the fish.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Yes I realized that and noticed the blush in her fins. That's why I put her up there to check that I am recognizing a body that I have an issue with. I'm seeing it now.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

And doesn't certain diseases cause the body to get messed up.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

The first three look like they have nice body lines to them. Now I am just not sure as to the caudal ray number and taper of the anal fin combining with his issues.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I think so but most of these are born like this and there's nothing that can be helped for them. Usually DT's have deformed spines and their offspring as well because DT in general is a deformity so then they would just breed more deformities. But I'm sure there are other factors as well like growth stunting if the fry's water was not changed properly or as frequently as needed and stuff like that.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I think you should get the girl that trilobite posted looking back down. Fins are shorter than the one I posted first, ventrals are black so that would probably counterbalance the yellow wash in him. All fins meet although first ray isn't long but that minor at this point. And she's a Dragon which will help keep his Dragon line going as well and she has a nice gentle curve to her, no bumpy top line at all so that will certainly help balance him out. She's got great color too


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Right, meaning the waves in her rays? Not clean edges?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Waves?


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I'm probably wording it wrong... LOL


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Well at least that's one to keep in mind. I am waiting for the pics of the other females before I make a move. I will ask the breeder again tomorrow about the sibling. I have not paid for the male because she said she had a sibling she wanted to show me before I did. So I will remind her tomorrow. I don't want to pay for one if for some crazy reason the female is perfect I would want to pay for both of them together. I guess I will wait and see. I am just not sure I want to breed a sibling with the same issues in her genes as he does.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh are you talking about the rays? Or talking about the topline?

Oh yeah, I hear you  worth it to wait and see what she's like and then make a decision. It is possible she'll look like him but even if she's got great form, you can still breed them with minimal problems generally.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I was talking about the rays. Lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh okay! lol


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Here is a picture of his sister  Let me know what you think. She has larger dorsal and anal fins that's for sure. Nice color.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Nice first ray on the dorsal, great top line! Nice smooth longer body which is what you're looking for! My only complaint is that the anal is too long but that's something you can fix next generation as well! I think you should get her! The color is absolutely fantastic and she's also a full mask so that will help keep the dragon scale going. She's got 8 ray's but it should be alright since her tail is nice flat and much cleaner than his. Although I think once he grows out more it will get a little more clean and straight around the edges. :-D

She get's my stamp of approval haha


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

What do you think of the yellow wash on the fins, ventral, and, caudal? I see a little there and his ventrals are also yellow. Or am I just being picky? Lol do you think she is the best out of the females so far?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

She's got a bit of yellow, not as much as he does. That's something you can fix next generation, find someone to counterbalance them. As I said, not sure if red wash will take out the yellow because I know it works the other way around so I'm only assuming here.

So what exactly do you want to keep in this spawn and help get rid of? Obviously his bumpy top line (to me at least) should be a priority which she will definitely help with. And then there's the color, the dragon scaling, messy v.s clean finnage, taking out the yellow wash and getting the fins to match up.

So it depends on what you want to do, if you want to end up with fry that looks very much like them in terms of color and dragon scaling, then breed them. If you really want to clean up the finnage, get the yellow out and get proper fin proportion then don't breed them. But those are all things you can fix next generation. Generally things like that are fixed over a few generations so you're not going to get one spawn and get perfect fish unless you start with perfect fish haha


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Well ideally I should breed the siblings. She does have beautiful color and top line. Plus they may not have been the best fish out of all their sibling but they might carry the genetics between the two of them that out of their fry there will be a few that come out beautiful. Someone mentioned his tail length was short and he needed a female with a longer tail? Does that make sense to you?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, I think you should. And yes ideally a female with a longer tail because he is short, but I think he's still got some growing to do. And yes her tail is short as well but that's just something else you can fix easily down the line ^_^ Oh and of course there's bound to be a good handful of fry that look amazing like their parents or even better!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Finding that perfect female is close to impossible. But try to get as good a form as possible.

View attachment 150650
View attachment 150658


These are in AB (sirinutbettafarm) . . . But I'm trying to show you the dorsal form you want. Getting a long first dorsal ray wont be easy, but these should not "ruin" the male's form. If they don't produce satisfying fry, breed daughter back to father.

I wouldn't advise breeding to a sibling because his form is "risky" - Rose wise. I suggest a 4 ray caudal - but with a dorsal form like the examples above (opens fan like).

Color wise: anything without red. Blue x blue = turquoise, steel blue, and royal blue. So either way (blue or other irid colors) you will only get a number of royal blues.

Everything else I agree with what has been said above.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Good to know we're on the right track here! Thanks indjo!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you for the breakdown  I got sis as a backup just in case another female wont breed with him. I am still waiting on the other breeder to get back to me about her female.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

She is still my fav. I am asking if this is the actual pic of the female I would be buying. After talking to a few breeders she has a lot of what I am looking for


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

If a breeder has lots, look at as many pictures as possible - choose the best one/s

GOOD LUCK


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Yep she does and they look very similar which is good. She has a monster blue sis with a white spec on her head and the same identical body and finnage. I'm really drawn to her because of the marble and butterfly gene she probably carries and I love those patterns. Hmmm...lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Awesome! Just be careful about the bent spines and all, don't to end up with all deformed fishies!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

That's the sister. She looks like she has a pretty good top line to me...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup she does, I was just thinking about how she's still carrying the same or similar genes that your boy is, meaning a lot of the fry could end up with bumpy toplines like your boy, you see?

She is beautiful though! Fairly decent form!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Oh no, I'm sorry... you misunderstood me. She is not the sister to my male. She is a sister to a bunch of females I picked from a different breeder. She is just one of the sista's....no relation to my male at all. lol!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ooooohhhhhhh! Okay! that makes sense XD okay yeah! get to it and breed 'em! lol


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

LOL! Well I have to wait for her first! I just bought her. I don't think they can breed across oceans?? he hee


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Psssh, miracles can happen! lol

They say that you should breed them once you get them in from a shipment overseas because they're most eager at that point, I've never done it but it's what I've heard and it's certainly worth a shot!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Really? I would think they wouldn't because of being stressed. They look pale and don't eat much.. Then they snap out of it in a couple days. Interesting...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's what aemaki09 said, not saying they're right or wrong but it's certainly worth a try. I did notice that after acclimation my AB girl was zooming everywhere and readily ate anything I put in the tank, after a few days she'd only eat Omega pellets and wouldn't even look at the other stuff I offered her, and then after that about a week she's back to normal again but not as eager for sure. She's fairly laid back now.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

My male is sticking his nose up at his food. I'm going to the pet store tomorrow to see what I can feed him now until I get some cultures going.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Hopefully everything will go well for you! I want a spawn log and everything. Haha!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you . I plan on keeping a spawn log also. Was looking at some spread sheet templates I can use. Also been building my own barracks. I think I lost count how many times I cut my fingers. Lol


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Aww! I hope you heal quickly. Be careful! lol Still, good plan going.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Awe thank you. I will be fine. It's a good pain  I've been buying supplies for the breeding tank and at the same time building the barracks. I'm actually enjoying it very much. Takes my mind off the daily stressors. A nice shift


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Betta barracks


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

What the... It came out sideways!!! Lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

These stands are incredibly sturdy. And they're adjustable which makes adding light fixtures an easy option.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Remind me not to upload pics from my phone! I think the pic should be straight now I hope... Still working on it. Half way there  

Yes I love the metal racks. I have adjusted the shelves a few times already. 
I have the breeding/grow out tank on one shelf now cycling for the female to arrive and attempt breeding. Whenever that is... I paid for the female but the transhipper has not answered me yet  

I put hornwort in it, a heater set a little low for now since I don't have a lot of water in it, lighting, and a slow bubbling filter. I want to make a "soup" out of some the almond leaves when they arrive to add to the water in a couple days. 

My male was sticking his nose up at the granule food when he arrived after shipping for a week or two, so I got him going with some brine shrimp to coax him into eating after he was shipped. He is eating now. lol! Little bugga!!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Okay lets try this again....


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Okay, I give up... lmao!!!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

How's this? Hope you don't mind that I rotated it for you.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

That was very nice of you. Thank you. There is not much to look at yet. Still putting it all together in my brain. I don't know why it is going sideways? It is upright on my phone and my computer. Grrr! Lol


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The wonders of technology.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Haha! Everything looks nice!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you Kiara1125

Ha haaa! You would think by now I would know how to post a photo...


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Well... the breeder just emailed me and said she did not have the female she promised me  I got a refund and now back to no female for my male. That sucks!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

>:-( well that's not very nice that she "promised" you and left you hanging! What a butt >.> well....I really hope you find another that is suitable for your gorgeous boy!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you  I knew something was amiss because a different transhipper emailed me my fish arrived. I was like huh?? I paid a different transhipper and told the breeder who I paid and I think the breeder sent the fish to the wrong person after I paid for the shipping because she never answered me when I told her a different transhipper contacted me and then days later she said she had a different fish for me and if that was okay. So after I saw the pics of the other female I said, ahhh... no..

At the moment, no contenders that I can see...


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

That sucks! I hate it when people do that. Same thing with you have something bad happen and they never contact you back. Say, for instance, you pay $40 for a betta and it's a DOA and they never answer you afterwards. Lil's right. What a butt. x(


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

No luck with USA breeders? Check out Honolulu Halfmoon Betta on facebook.
Or Kauai Bettas on Facebook. Lots of blues and blue/green butterflies. They probably have a lovely match for your boy.

https://www.facebook.com/honoluluhalfmoons.hi?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/KauaiBettas


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Peachii sent me this site and it looks pretty good:

http://www.mnbettashop.com/


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Yep. MN Betta Shop has very nice fish as well. If you call just make sure you tell him you are looking for show quality and tell him what flaws your male has. There are videos of the fish.


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## LizbethDawn (May 22, 2013)

I found a couple blue girls that seem to be what people are describing but I'm still learning so the others who know their stuff could tell you if they would work.









http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1373218224









http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1373210401

This last girls pictures were huge and she's a marble she was just kid of a long shot so I'll just link.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1373222059


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Just saying, those females are gorgeous, especially the second one. I love dragons.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

They both have short first rays on the dorsal. The first one looks like it has reduction in the webbing between rays but all unpaired fins show it so it's OK. Her anal measures out to more than 1/3 her body length-can't be sure due to the angle. Slight fault. Don't forget your boys anal is a tad long. The second looks to have excessive ray branching in the tail. The dorsal on the first girl could reach further back. The first girl has short first rays on the caudal. First girls anal looks rounded but it could be the angle. Pretty girls none the less.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks for all your help  I was trying to check out the first two links for the females on Aquabid. All the listings came up. I don't know why... lol
I found the last girl, the marble. They are all pretty females I agree 

But I actually purchased a female from Chaba on Aquabid. A really good guy to deal with. She is a green butterfly. I would say marble also? I was not sure which way to go with looking for the right caudal on the females. I was told less branching for my male would be better and then by a well known show/breeder to go for at least 4 preferably 8 ray branching after she saw my male. I know the short first rays of the dorsal will be tough to fix. The anal fin on this girl does not seem to long and the right length...Her top line looks good. Sooo I made the call and got her. Don't know if it was the right one since I am such a newbie, but there was something about her after I looked at a bunch of females for weeks that I liked. Plus the breeder I bought her from was really attentive and a pleasure to deal with. I am supposed to get her this week. Can't wait! I hope it was the right decision... EEEK!!! lol


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

I think you will end up with sell able fry no problem. You always want at least 4 ray branching. 8 rays is the optimum for females IMHO only because show standards dictate males have at least 8 rays and females have at least 4 rays. IME I have found the females stamp their fry more so than the males yet a lot look for top notch males and skimp on the female.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I actually took more care looking at females because I started to understand a lot more after I got the male  Reading over and over and the brain started to click going ohhh that's why... Lol


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

They're going to make gorgeous offspring! I can't wait to see the spawn log.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I wouldn't go with the last female, sorry. Her rays are way to many. Try to get a 4 ray female - safer because your boy has excessive rays.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

So she won't get the perfect HM fry, at least these fry (if she spawns the pair) will be able to sell and will look pretty nice. People who buy bettas don't always look for perfection. I would happily buy some offspring from the future spawn. At least she can get money for a new female and try to breed a different pair if she wishes. No one is going to reach absolute perfection, so this is just the start in learning with the spawning.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Kiara1125 said:


> So she won't get the perfect HM fry, at least these fry (if she spawns the pair) will be able to sell and will look pretty nice. People who buy bettas don't always look for perfection. I would happily buy some offspring from the future spawn. At least she can get money for a new female and try to breed a different pair if she wishes. No one is going to reach absolute perfection, so this is just the start in learning with the spawning.


Right but with more finnage comes the possibility of chronic fin bitting which is no good and that can hurt the potential Betta's. Especially if people don't realize quite yet how to care of them, I mean she can only sell to people whom she deems good but still it's not fair to the Betta to have to bite the fins and then possibly get fin rot and if it's not caught, end up with a rotting body, you see? Granted I love my FT and RT boy's but they do have the most trouble swimming and it's not fun to watch them struggle like that, however beautiful they are. So that's just something to keep in mind, but at this point it raises another question:

Are you breeding for Show or just to get pretty Betta's that might not be perfect? Health should always be top priority when Breeding of course


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah, that is true ... My HM bit his tail once, and then stopped after I added plants. Now he has a 10g to himself and he's happy. lol Still, I understand the risk of the inexperienced owners. All you can do is teach people and help spread the word.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Kiara1125 said:


> So she won't get the perfect HM fry, at least these fry (if she spawns the pair) will be able to sell and will look pretty nice. People who buy bettas don't always look for perfection. I would happily buy some offspring from the future spawn. At least she can get money for a new female and try to breed a different pair if she wishes. No one is going to reach absolute perfection, so this is just the start in learning with the spawning.


excessive ray x excessive ray = rose and possible deformities. Something I personally would avoid.

It has nothing to do with form. In fact if you're lucky and don't produce deformed fry, you have a bigger chance of producing OHM


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I myself was not looking to show at the moment. I'm too new at it and still learning as I attempt breeding. I have had bettas for years now just never bred them. I get different opinions and open to all suggestions. I will never learn unless I can listen to what people have to say and try to help


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Now my male looks totally different under bright light.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

He's lovely! My Courtland gets that green sheen under flash too.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Wow! Look at the fins on your boy! Gotta love how the color shows up under different lighting.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That's what I love about them - different mood, different color. Different lighting, different color. Keeping bettas is never boring.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Oh my my my... I think I am in love!!! lol


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

kbraucci said:


> I myself was not looking to show at the moment. I'm too new at it and still learning as I attempt breeding. I have had bettas for years now just never bred them. I get different opinions and open to all suggestions. I will never learn unless I can listen to what people have to say and try to help


I wanted to comment to this but forgot when I saw the pictures.
Anyway, REMEMBER there is neither a right nor wrong way to keep, breed, and raise this species. Each person may have different experiences due to different conditions, environment, etc. You'd have to compare each method, tricks, etc. then combine or choose a method most suitable for you. 

There will also be differences about breed - or not certain traits; such as DT and rose. Some will say it is safe if done correctly. Others will say no . . . . I prefer to be safe than sorry and will always discourage (specially new to breeding) people from breeding rose tails (personal experience). I have no issues against DT though - only believe they shouldn't be inbred or bred to another DT more than 1 generation.


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I find that a lot of females lack in proper form more than the males. Maybe it is because more people are drawn to the males being so pretty the females are cast aside and not worked on as much as the males. I think if you have a good female it helps to improve the line from what I understand and the traits tend to come more from the female from what some people are telling me. I have another breeding couple I have my eye on also that I might want to breed. There is no excessive finnage at all in the male so if I end up with them also then I will look at both pairs in front of me and make a call what pair I am going to breed and really study the outcome and learn from there. But again thank you for all the help. I take no offense at all to the comments  I am here to learn and hopefully produce some quality fish in the end.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Can't wait to see all the fry you get!

Definitely start a spawn log when the time comes around ;-) I hope all your endeavors fair well for you!! :-D


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you lilnaugrim  I am going to see if I can create a log on Powerpoint. I got the girl in today and whoa is she pissed, scared! I can't go near her without the horizontal stripes popping up. I am acclimating her to my water and I will put her in her tank with some almond leaves and see if she chills out. The male is ready. He is building a bubble nest in his tank. lol! I won't let her near him while she is acting up.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Wow, feisty girl! Good luck! I'm hoping for the best!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank you Kiara. Well the female is in her vase/globe and the male is swimming around her in the tank. They seem fine. She is responding nicely and so is he... she flutters at him and he flutters back at her, but he is not building a nest yet under the almond leaf. I am going to leave them alone and hope he starts building one. He goes under the leaf and floats there looking like hmmm.... I know I need to do something... what is that exactly...? lol I'm not sure how long to leave them together but by morning I think I will pull her out if there is no nest.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lol that's cute. actually that happens often, leave him in there. You can check about it in the breeding section but if I remember correctly sometimes they don't build it until the females are out and about. So if you let her out if they are acting the same towards each other and then he would probably start running around frantically building his nest while trying to court her and chase her lol


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Okay  I read to place him in the tank with her in the globe and leave them alone overnight and release her in the morning and watch them carefully. I was not sure if he should be building the nest before I release her or not. But you answered my question. She is curling up a little and flutters when he comes near her like she is submitting and turns as he circles her. There is no charging and she has no horizontal bars showing like she is upset. She is showing a little front belly. So all is good so far. It's cute. lol


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

She's looking at him like hey dude hurry up!! lol


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

They're gorgeous! I hope he builds a nest and that they spawn successfully!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol cute picture! Also something else, you can tape paper over the sides or drape a towel so that you don't disturb them. I know my Betta's would get extremely excited if they saw me coming even just to look at them. So he might be a little distracted is all


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

I didn't get that far to give them privacy. When I released her she tore him up so I got him out right away. I could see it was not going to go well. I put a treatment in his water to help him mend the poor guy


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

Aww  well, it happens. I heard people let them see each other for almost 2 weeks before breeding. She just seems to be really fiesty or just not ready.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Ilikebutterflies said:


> I think you will end up with sell able fry no problem. You always want at least 4 ray branching. 8 rays is the optimum for females IMHO only because show standards dictate males have at least 8 rays and females have at least 4 rays. IME I have found the females stamp their fry more so than the males yet a lot look for top notch males and skimp on the female.


This has been my experience too. That is why, even with heavy branched males.. you still get an 8 ray girl. Ideally she has good length too.. to help balance out those extra rays. In F1 look for length of that tail again and pick the best balanced females to use for breeding. Breed for balanced girls and you will have great males. Males are just females with longer fins.

You go from this.. looks like a nice female form wise..



to this... male is in spawn tank so sorry about the pphoto. He took 1st in his class at convention so is a pretty decent male.



Even as bad as this picture is.. you can still see the balance in this male. I bred for great females first. And this line was over branched and way out of balance 4 years ago. This is the line I have worked the longest.


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## Kiara1125 (Feb 1, 2011)

That's a great strategy! Your bettas are gorgeous!


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## kbraucci (Jun 13, 2013)

Oh man he's beautiful! That's why I liked the blue butterfly female I have because she seemed to have nice balance all the way through and the 8 rays. I have another male coming and another female along with him. I am just going to condition them for awhile and pic the best female that seems to respond well, preferably with the 8 rays and hope a a decent male is ready when she is  I noticed it's not easy to find a nice looking female with all the goods.


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