# What colors are you most interested in?



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Since my last breeding pairs were DOA, I'm picking some new ones..And I'm wondering what there is interest in, the tail types would be hmpks.

Black coppers?
Giant and giant geno purple/maroon salamanders?
Blue Marbles?
Koi coloring?
Pinks?


Thanks guys, hope these ones live!


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I like Koi coloring, and pinks. Good luck with the next pair!!


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

Um all of the above? 
Well except im not big into the HMPKs lol


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

All but Black Copper please.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

*Breeding projects/pairs* -* Purples


1- Giant hmpk purple salamanders with purple hmpk salamander*









(This shows his awesome finnage but not his pretty purple color.)










*2 - Fun/bizarre purple marbles!*

I had originally hoped to do blue dragon marbles, but purple and varied coloreddragon marbles are great too. I don't know about all of you but I am a huge fan of the unusual colored betta.

Male









Female (who is also in my avatar)










What do you guys think? I have 2 or 3 more fish to select, I'm hoping to find an orange marble at a reasonable price or my previously desired blue and white dragon marbles.


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

that copper female is gorgeous


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

copperarabian said:


> that copper female is gorgeous


Thank you...! 

I am totally obsessed with her (don't tell the other girls.) She was worth the money. I have named her...Cow Cow lol for a reason that's probably not that interesting or worth the explanation!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Breed the giants, IMO their colors are more compatible. 
Your second pair..... not sure what color you'd get, I'm guessing a variety of multies. But I'm not too keen on their heads - both have dippy heads.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

I would be interested in the coppers and marbles  of any tail type


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## xxmikeyxx (Jan 27, 2011)

Intense or Extended Reds, Yellows, and as of right now I'm starting to like marbles a lot. The color combination of a marble is just so mind blowing. THERE JUST SO MANY COLORS!


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> Giant and giant geno purple/maroon salamanders?


Yes. Definitely giant purple salamander HMPK


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I found these lovely Giant Dragon White/Green marble pair so I snatched em right up! I'm going to do the purple/red salamander giants and these giants. Anyone interested in green marbled dragons?

$65.00 feels like a great price for these guys. 

Male:









Female:


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

super red hmpk, blue marbles, multis.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

yellows, orange, orange dalmation, mixed all mixed, with random awsome colors.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> I found these lovely Giant Dragon White/Green marble pair so I snatched em right up! I'm going to do the purple/red salamander giants and these giants. Anyone interested in green marbled dragons?
> 
> $65.00 feels like a great price for these guys.
> 
> ...


 


























that is a very expensive fish!!!!!!!! 0.O...., i almost peed myself when i saw that!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

It was 65 for both! Not 65 each ;]


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> It was 65 for both! Not 65 each ;]


 

oh, well its still expensive lol. not "pee yourself" expensive but its "jaw dropping" expensive lol.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Really? Most male giants start at 50 and go up to 150 sometimes! Lol I guess it's all perspective. I make 90 a week just for tutoring so this is affordable for me.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

yeah, $65 for a pair of giants seems pretty good to me too. I love their coloring, specially the girl


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## betaguy (Sep 15, 2011)

if giants are so expensive... looks like you could be making some bankkkk. As well as adding some fantastic fish to your group. will you be doing a spawn log? i would love to follow it and see how the fry turn out.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Tisia said:


> yeah, $65 for a pair of giants seems pretty good to me too. I love their coloring, specially the girl




EEEEeee thanks so happy I got them! The girl caught my eye first, she wasn't bought, and she was reposted. I couldn't get her out of my head. I was thinking I'd just put her with one of my other giants, but then I saw the two green marble males. There was this male and a piebald male. Piebalds kinda freak me out lol so I picked this guy. Nice to see you again today Tisia


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

betaguy said:


> if giants are so expensive... looks like you could be making some bankkkk. As well as adding some fantastic fish to your group. will you be doing a spawn log? i would love to follow it and see how the fry turn out.



Well maybe I'll make a small profit but part of the reason I want to breed giant hmpks is because they are SO EXPENSIVE for people in the USA. I want these beautiful fish to be more available financially for people, especially breeders here. I'm just looking to cover my basic costs and then help other breeders.

The other reason I want to breed giant hmpks is because I just LOVE them. They are so fun to watch swim. They're really strong and fast. They look great in my tanks. HMPK is my favorite tail type.

Originally, I wanted to breed giants. Then I figured I should just try to breed regular hmpks before giants. Buttt those breeding pairs died in transit to the USA so I'm back to breeding giants!

If they make it here alive, you can bet on a spawn log with sooo many photos. I have a sorority log going now. I like to help other members with my trials and errors if I can.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

yeah, just thinking about the fact I paid $60 before shipping for the HMPK pair I'm planning on breeding, so $65 for giants seems like an even better deal now, lol
I love the spotted look, even though it seems like most of them marble up solid eventually, lol. 
we really need to do something sometime when you don't have to rush off


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah we should. In fact I think you should move in to the unit next to me, and we can buy the studio apartment in the attic and turn it into our fish room for breeding projects....muahahahha


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

U got some nice looking giant....
The color I like is....
blue or green mask....
Or marble
Can't wait till my lfs have a new shipment on the giant....
Want to pick up another pair....
But I have to wait....
Do to his supplier in Thailand....
They told him that there was a flood...
Most farm lost a lot of fish....


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

lol, I think it would be safer if one of us was in the attic and the large amounts of water were on the ground floor and not above us, lol


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## UglyMuffin777 (Jul 21, 2011)

Holy shizzz! There were 3 male giants at my petsmart labeled for the price of a veiltail! Gahh haha! You mean I was looking into the eyes of 250$ worth of fish?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

UglyMuffin777 said:


> Holy shizzz! There were 3 male giants at my petsmart labeled for the price of a veiltail! Gahh haha! You mean I was looking into the eyes of 250$ worth of fish?


Depending on what they looked like and if they were true giants, maybe. Part of the reason they're so expensive online is because they are fairly uncommon in the US. I'm hoping to change that.


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

UglyMuffin777 said:


> Holy shizzz! There were 3 male giants at my petsmart labeled for the price of a veiltail! Gahh haha! You mean I was looking into the eyes of 250$ worth of fish?


 
Not exactly
If they were the ones bred in Thailand and were bred for color/finnage then possibly, but they probably werent cause then the prices on petsmart's bettas would be WAY more if they got them from the breeders in thai lol


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@Greentea: we have similar goals. hope you succeed in developing giants.

They are very expensive to rear though. I'm feeding mine between 5 to 9 times from 7 am to midnight, and they're still not growing at the rate I wished for..... I plan to take one and measure it because I'm curious how big they actually are.

Good Luck on your "experiments".


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

Um..How would you measure it?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

indjo said:


> @Greentea: we have similar goals. hope you succeed in developing giants.
> 
> They are very expensive to rear though. I'm feeding mine between 5 to 9 times from 7 am to midnight, and they're still not growing at the rate I wished for..... I plan to take one and measure it because I'm curious how big they actually are.
> 
> Good Luck on your "experiments".



Thank you Indjo! I hope you are successful as well. What are your breeding goals?

Why do you say "experiments"? 

Can I ask you some questions? What you are feeding your fry at what stages of development? How many fry you have? I've heard giants have generally smaller spawns, has this been your experience? 

I am planning to feed infusoria, egg yolks, bbs, microworms, crushed protein pellets, and maybe vinegar eels. It's rainy and cold here now so an outside spawn or mosquito larvae are out of the question.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yaoilover12397 said:


> Um..How would you measure it?


You can place a tape measure next to the tank or remove a fry from the tank in a bag and place a measuring tape alongside the fry.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Even if the giant r breed in the USA....
I don't think they'll drop below 20 a fish....
My goal with the giant is...
To get some mask...
Dragon...
Dt
Big ear 
Nothing less the hm...
I know I'm working with a lot of line at the same time....
It going to take me a few year to get them all...


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> Even if the giant r breed in the USA....
> I don't think they'll drop below 20 a fish....
> My goal with the giant is...
> To get some mask...
> ...



Are you in the USA? That is a huge undertaking, especially considering that big ears are fairly new. This male has a mask and the female is almost entirely dragon. I want green/white dragon marble giants, and my purple/red Cambodian giants.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah I'm from the us...
Californai 
I know it's a big project...
Thats y i Have my little brother helping me...
Good thing he only live across the street from me...
Have a big ear male....
Looking for a female....
People say they have a hard time swimming....
I disagree with them....
My super delta is slower n have a harder time swimming then my big ear....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Experiment: no special reason. It's just a word I thought of .... meaning to seek/prove whether something is right or wrong. Since this is your first giant spawn, I thought it was appropriate.

I feed mainly FBW and live tubifex mainly because they get digested faster than other foods. I also feed ML, daphnia, and minced shrimp, occasionally some ant eggs - but that's way too expensive.

I fed the usual egg yolk and tubifex are always in there. Plus since daddy was in there, I also fed ML and daphnia since they hatched.... This spawn made me realize that good daddies feed their fry..... In one week they looked like 1 month old fry. So I took daddy out and fed mainly dahnia and small ML until they could eat chopped FBW. Then I mainly feed FBW and Tubifex.

I could literally feed them FBW every hour - they would eat 2/3 of their "hungry ration". But when I feed ML, they wouldn't eat as much/soon. Minced shrimps takes even longer to digest.

I think I had about 200. After 2 weeks I took out 20 smaller fry. After 1 month I took out another 50 fry. 10 weeks, another 10 fry. 2 months another 10 fry...... I ran out of tanks/tubs for the smaller fry so now I'm not taking anymore out (though they are smaller, they are still bigger than your regular fry).

I'm not sure if they have smaller spawns. Thus far I'd say "no". It depends on the pair. My red spawn was always less than 50 (3 times - I lost all of the first 2 spawns). But my copper reaches hundreds. And I've read people selecting fry from originally 500.

I am comparing fry with tons of food and those fed like regular fry. There is a big difference in growth...naturally.... but I want to know if giants are really genetic or has something to do with food. Thus far those with regular feeding grow like regular fry - but they showed growth spurts twice, thus out growing the regular. Unfortunately I didn't record this with pictures nor measurements..... we'll see if they can grow as big.

wow.... I got carried away ... sorry for the long post.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

No that's all great information! I want to learn as much as I can. I will have 2 or 3 ten gallon tank for growout so far.

What spawn method did you use? And what sort of grow out tank do you use?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Spawn 1: Copper x Platinum
bare bottom 50g+ filled 1/3. Very little plants at one end and covered the top at the other end where I want the nest. About 200 fry (never counted)

Spawn 2,3,4: Red x red
Bare bottom 14g+ filled half way, half of tank stuffed with plants, covered top where I want the nest. All less than 50 - lost the first 2 spawn.

Spawn 5: Copper X platinum
Bare bottom very long 5g+ full to the top and filled with tons of plants. Covered the end where I want the nest. I'd say more than 200 - growing very slow.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Do you know why you lost the two spawns that you did? I have heard some say giants are more prone to illnesses, others disagree completely and say it's due to human error.

and thank you for sharing your experiences with me


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure. For some reason they were very weak. Even the third spawn is weak. I only have about six left (they're in the 50g+ with the big guys).

Yes giants are prone to diseases - specially if you feed live food. You have to be extra careful that they are free from bacteria or any other parasites. BUT ..... another part of my experiment ....... I'm trying to get my fry used to bacteria; I don't "clean" foods before feeding. They are as tolerant as regulars. Their parents are different, they are more sensitive. I've lost the red female.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Interesting. Other than egg yolk and crushed high protein pelleted food, what are good non living foods to feed fry?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IDK, I don't really pay attention to food nutrients. I just use what works best for me. I don't use BBS only because it's too much of a hassle - I have tons of fry which means tons of hatcheries. Egg yolk is easier.


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## ICEAL (Sep 27, 2011)

Do you crush the egg yolk?


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

yeah $65 for a giant HMPK pair is a deal for sure. Not expensive at all! I've seen just the males going for $100-150 and up on aquabid. I've seen some koi up to $500. 
green tea your project looks tough but it will be amazing I'm sure. I have no idea if I'll ever get into breeding but I know its a big undertaking!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

mjoy79 said:


> yeah $65 for a giant HMPK pair is a deal for sure. Not expensive at all! I've seen just the males going for $100-150 and up on aquabid. I've seen some koi up to $500.
> green tea your project looks tough but it will be amazing I'm sure. I have no idea if I'll ever get into breeding but I know its a big undertaking!



Haha I was feeling pretty confident but now I am starting to worry. Thanks for the support! I am hoping it will be as amazing as it is in my head...

Indjo - How long do you feed egg yolk? My plan was for 2 weeks.


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## ICEAL (Sep 27, 2011)

Do you crush the egg yolk when you feed it to the fry, or just drop the whole yolk?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I freeze my egg yolk in a squirt bottle then I thaw it out and spray it in the tank. 

Lately I've been using Atisons Starter with my fry as well as a couple cups of water from my sorority/guppy planted tank (lots of infusoria).


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

As far as egg goes i heard you just rub off some with your fingure 
I could be wrong, but to me it would make sence lol


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Decap BSE is a good non live food. All the goodness of feeding BBS without the hassle of hatching them.


When i feed egg yolk i put a pinch of it in my palm dip my finger in the tank to get a little water then spear the egg yolk around then just willing my yolky finger in the tank. o.o But people have differentways of feeding.

I never use a whole egg yolk and they get weird looking left in the fridg. But ifind my adults will attack and eat little chunks of yolk as well, so it'snot thrown away(after feeding them it though i fallow shortyly with eater changes xD).


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

indjo said:


> Spawn 1: Copper x Platinum
> bare bottom 50g+ filled 1/3. Very little plants at one end and covered the top at the other end where I want the nest. About 200 fry (never counted)
> 
> Spawn 2,3,4: Red x red
> ...



I bred Red to red and got a huge spawn but 90% of them never became free swimming and died. :|


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey betta rule....
Did u cover the top of the tank....
To keep the air n water temp. Close to each out....
If the water tempe. is different then the air....
It will throw the fry into shock....
They will die.....


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

@Greentea... I absolutely LOVE your Giant hmpk purple salamanders..


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Curlyfatass said:


> Hey betta rule....
> Did u cover the top of the tank....
> To keep the air n water temp. Close to each out....
> If the water tempe. is different then the air....
> ...


No I had not done that but I will definitely do it in the future! Thanks!


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Gloria said:


> @Greentea... I absolutely LOVE your Giant hmpk purple salamanders..


Thank you Gloria, I love them too


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

ICEAL said:


> Do you crush the egg yolk when you feed it to the fry, or just drop the whole yolk?


There are a number of ways you could feed egg yolk (EY) - 
1. In the old days, they advise to squeeze it through cloth so only small particles would get into the water.

2. Nowadays many use small spray. They take a tiny piece of EY (about 2-3mm cubed) and dilute it in the spray and spray once or twice evenly on the water surface.

3. Because sprays often jam, my favorite is just pinch a tiny bit and squeeze it with my fingers as I spread it through out the tank.

4. Someone on this forum dilutes them in a small cup then pour it through out the tank.

All methods are the same - you need to make it disperse into tiny particles.



> Indjo - How long do you feed egg yolk? My plan was for 2 weeks.


For regular usually about 10 - 14 days. But giants only a few days.... I feed EY until fry are big enough to eat other, bigger food such as young daphnia. So I don't really have a definite schedule.



> I bred Red to red and got a huge spawn but 90% of them never became free swimming and died. :neutral:


I haven't bred any reds in a veeeery loong time. But I don't think reds carry any deadly genes. IMO it's just coincidence.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I use just a regular tank hood from WalMart and it keeps in the humidity very well. But if not try using a tub with a clap on lid or use plastic wrap.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

The only fry I have raised before are platy fry. Indjo that you for the PM and all the info that you have shared with me, I really appreciate it. I am hoping you can be a sort of mentor to me, as I am basically experimenting here!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey, I'm no expert ..... remember that!
I'll be more than happy to share what ever info/experience I've gained, but I'm still learning too.

So we experiment together......


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Great. That's sweet. Thank you. We're all learning all the time, I hope we can help one another! Since I live in cold Washington USA and you live in Jakarta, I'm sure our experiences will be different.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

indjo said:


> Hey, I'm no expert ..... remember that!
> I'll be more than happy to share what ever info/experience I've gained, but I'm still learning too.
> 
> So we experiment together......


Maybe you're not an "expert" but you sure are knowledgeable and we appreciate your advice.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> Maybe you're not an "expert" but you sure are knowledgeable and we appreciate your advice.


+1


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I just remembered something about "giants having smaller spawns".

It's possible that the male is too fat. I've noticed that fatter male have trouble embracing compared to slimmer ones. Since giants can EAT, I'd imagine they can really get fat. 

In my case, my males are very picky eaters - they only want live of what ever mood they're in. LOL.... it's true. They don't ALWAYS go for ML, daphnia, nor tubifex. It depends on their mood. Sometimes they won't eat anything. But when they eat.... they can really eat (I once counted over 100 - comma stage - ML then I lost count). In short they are relatively thin for giants.

Ask who ever said giant spawns are smaller if this is the case.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I've just sort of come across it few times in my searches. Your giants are lucky! Mine get quality pellets, frozen daphnia, brine shrimp, and blood worms. Nothing live. I keep the heater on blast in my living room for them though! I noticed my giant male only makes nests when the temp of the air is quite warm and his water temp is around 84.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

82-84 is good..... oh here's something to look for- it's said that lower temp produces more females while higher temp more males. I get more males during the hot season and more females during the rainy season. 

Previously I thought, this is still believed by many, females produce optimum number of males during her first 3 spawns. After wards she produces more females thus often culled. Lately I noticed this isn't true....... Let me know what you experience when you get to it.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Wow I never knew the temp can affect the male to female ratio....
All I know with the temp is...
If u keep it between 80-85
With a good size tank n a lot of light...
U can make the baby grow faster...
With the pk I usually get them to full grown size in about 2.5 month....


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## ICEAL (Sep 27, 2011)

when covering the tank, should i cover it all or should i put holes? my mom said that they might not get air to breath if i cover it.


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## alysalouise (Mar 15, 2011)

ICEAL said:


> when covering the tank, should i cover it all or should i put holes? my mom said that they might not get air to breath if i cover it.


Yes it does need to have holes so they can breath


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

ICEAL said:


> when covering the tank, should i cover it all or should i put holes? my mom said that they might not get air to breath if i cover it.



Are you talking about in a spawning tank or just a tank in general? If you're just covering it with saran wrap like I will be doing, and there is air at the top, you don't need to poke holes in it or the heat will escape. There is usually 6+ inches of air above the water in a spawning tank and that should be sufficient. If you're just talking about a jar or tank be sure your fish can get air, yeah.


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