# Plans



## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

I have a 10gal sand bottom tank in the making for my halfmoon and soon my new crowntail.

The tank was used for my late hamster that passed away. And before that it was also a hamster cage and the hamster age away some of the sealent. I have repaired the damages with some aquarium selent from petsmart. The sand I got from home depot($3 play sand) and that I've cleaned in a large blue tub thing for an hour or so. 

However I need to clean the tank out just in case theres any ickies in there. My question is whats the formula for cleaning a 10 gal tank like that? I heard its 1 part bleach 9 part water? So would that be 1 gal of bleach and the rest water? Or should I go with 1 cup bleach to 10 gal water?

Also, with the tank I'm planning of having it divided with a sponge filter( http://cgi.ebay.com/Bio-Sponge-Filt...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item8010809b58 ) for my halfmoon. Has anyone had any experience with that filter? Do you only need the air pump to run it?

Also with people with natural planted tanks do any of you use sand? And if you do, do you use another substate as well? Also what kind of lighting do you use? I live in the basement so I don't have access to natural lighting. I was hoping to get a full hood i'm just a bit hesitant with what bulbs? I can either get a hood thats a single bulb or two seperate bulbs. 

Guess the easiest thing to say is i'm starting a tank from scratch. I ahve the tank that was sealed and tested good and play sand that's been cleaned. It's gonna be a natural planted tank and most of the plants are bright to medium lighting. Any other ideas would be great


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## KayDowson (Mar 24, 2011)

try rinsing it with vinegar and or hydrogen peroxide and then rinsing it out really good... and scrub it down super duper so u dont have any ickies from the rodents left behind


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## LeroyTheBetta (Dec 18, 2010)

Bettawolf19 said:


> I have a 10gal sand bottom tank in the making for my halfmoon and soon my new crowntail.
> 
> However I need to clean the tank out just in case theres any ickies in there. My question is whats the formula for cleaning a 10 gal tank like that? I heard its 1 part bleach 9 part water? So would that be 1 gal of bleach and the rest water? Or should I go with 1 cup bleach to 10 gal water?


A 5% solution would be fine. That would be 1 part bleach to 19 parts water.

So, you could do something like 19 cups water & 1 cup bleach, but I'd just use half which would be 9 1/2 cups water & 1/2 cup bleach. Put on a glove (bleach is an acid, this is why your skin is slippery after you use it.... it's breaking down tissues of your hand....... also to be sure no bleach residue is on your hands when you do the final rinse of your tank) and just wash the surfaces down. If there's not lots of crud on it, just being in contact with the bleach solution for several minutes should be fine. I would let it sit for a few minutes after you wash it down, then get the surfaces wet again and let it sit for another few minutes.

Be sure to rinse the HECK out of the inside! Bleach is VERY VERY toxic to fish and you need to get all you can out. Once rinsed, let it soak in clean water with double or triple dose of dechlorinator for an hour or two.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

You would definitely need an air pump for that. I would advise against that filter due to the live plants. You may find that your CO2 will out gas too much with all the water turbulence. I would go for a HOB power filter such as an AuaClear 20 or so. As far as the light, go with a T5 or T8 fixture for high light plants. And you will probably want to think of some type of CO2 if you go that high on the light. You can also get a dual incandescent fixture and put 2 Mini CFL bulbs like this one ( http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lights-of-America-10-Watt-Mini-Fluorescent-Aquarium-Bulb-1-ct/10448675
in it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What kind of soil are you going to use....I use regular playsand to cap my soil based tanks

Sponge filter will be fine for a soil based tank or no filter at all.....I don't use any filters on my 10gal NPT...well except for the plants...lol....they are great filters as long as you have the right number and species......its best to start out with several different species of stem plants...the reason....not all plants will do well and by using several different species the setup will pick the one it wants.....

Proper lighting is really important...look for 6500k bulbs....I use 2 light strips over my 10gals-open top to get best light penetration for best plant growth...


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> You would definitely need an air pump for that. I would advise against that filter due to the live plants. You may find that your CO2 will out gas too much with all the water turbulence. I would go for a HOB power filter such as an AuaClear 20 or so. As far as the light, go with a T5 or T8 fixture for high light plants. And you will probably want to think of some type of CO2 if you go that high on the light. You can also get a dual incandescent fixture and put 2 Mini CFL bulbs like this one ( http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lights-of-America-10-Watt-Mini-Fluorescent-Aquarium-Bulb-1-ct/10448675
> in it.


What's T5 and T8 mean? And I was looking at those bulbs and they're about $5 buck or so.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> What's T5 and T8 mean? And I was looking at those bulbs and they're about $5 buck or so.


T5 is a linear fluorescent bulb that is skinny. You get a lot of bang for your buck with these. You can even get High Output (HO) and get even more. It is a good way to cram a bunch of watts of lighting over your tank with less space used.

T8 is also a linear fluorescent bulb, but a bit bigger. It is about and inch to an inch and a half in diameter and is a good way to get a good deal of light over your tank as well. This is what most standard fish tank hoods take.

In my opinion, you don't really need to get T5 lighting unless you are going to use high light plants and lots of ferts and CO2. Going that route would be considered High Tech. I would stick with CFL lights or the T8, as they are both readily available at any pet store and not nearly as expensive as T5 or T5HO lamps and fixtures. If you look at a lot of these reef tanks, most of the lights are T5 and T5HO lights on them. Good for mimicking the tropical sun.

As far as the lamps I gave you the link for, I use them on 3 of my tanks with great success. I have two of them in an incandescent hood on my 10 gallon and one in an incandescent hood on my 2.5 gallon nano. All my plants are doing very well and I love how cheap they are.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> What kind of soil are you going to use....I use regular playsand to cap my soil based tanks
> 
> Sponge filter will be fine for a soil based tank or no filter at all.....I don't use any filters on my 10gal NPT...well except for the plants...lol....they are great filters as long as you have the right number and species......its best to start out with several different species of stem plants...the reason....not all plants will do well and by using several different species the setup will pick the one it wants.....
> 
> Proper lighting is really important...look for 6500k bulbs....I use 2 light strips over my 10gals-open top to get best light penetration for best plant growth...


I was looking at getting Earthgro(I do believe I read soemwhere you use that) though I was wondering if you can use the munure version of that? Because I know they have the potting soil one of it.

As for stem plants I have Aracharis, Wisteria, Moneywort and Hornwort. I think Moneywort and Hornwort are considered stems correct me if I'm wrong of course. I foudna place that sells water lettice to..never knew it floated to be honest lol different kind maybe? I also have some Java fern thats not doing so swell in my 5 gal(which I'm thinking of redoing..hate the gravel of it lol bye bye cycled tank XD) but I don't think it would like the 10 gal though because of the lighting..

Man if only I had windows in my room I could use the sunlight to help but I would probably get a face full of algae instead -sigh- So for lighting I'm trying to avoid a hood mostly because their just argh with me but we'll see. I might just go get one anyways. Petsmart has one going for $23ish right now.

I ahve a feeling after this I'm gonna wanna do all my fish tanks this way..and get more tanks and continue XD granted its a good thing I live in the basement..no worries of my tanks going through the floor


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> I was looking at getting Earthgro(I do believe I read soemwhere you use that) though I was wondering if you can use the munure version of that? Because I know they have the potting soil one of it.
> 
> As for stem plants I have Aracharis, Wisteria, Moneywort and Hornwort. I think Moneywort and Hornwort are considered stems correct me if I'm wrong of course. I foudna place that sells water lettice to..never knew it floated to be honest lol different kind maybe? I also have some Java fern thats not doing so swell in my 5 gal(which I'm thinking of redoing..hate the gravel of it lol bye bye cycled tank XD) but I don't think it would like the 10 gal though because of the lighting..
> 
> ...


As far as soil based tanks, I don't have a lot of experience with them. The one I am doing is my first one. I have seen a lot of people using Miracle Gro potting soil and having success with it though. As far as the one you mentioned, I have no clue. I would imagine the manure one would add all the things you would be trying to take out, nitrate, nitrite, and possibly ammonia. Not sure though. As far as the lighting, look on craigslist. I have found many a tank and hood on there. I have Java Fern in my 10 gallon that is quite happy with the light. 1 to 2 new leaves a week at this point. They also like ferts in the water column though and some CO2 never hurts. As far as doing all your tanks this way, that is up to you. I can tell you this though, this is going to be my one and only tank I do like this. I will stick with aquarium substrate like Eco Complete from now on. It is what I have used on past tanks and have not really had a problem with it. I would say, do a couple of different ways, and find something that works for you and stick with it. As for the light hood, you can just get the light part of it and use a glass top instead of the full hood. I use all glass tops and love them. They keep the humidity in and the cats out.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I wouldn't use the manure type soils this could cause algae issue....you want some type of regular organic type potting soil, top soil or if you live in an area that is free of pesticide you can go dig dirt out of your yard and use this.

Although hornwort is a nice plant-I wouldn't use this and it is really not good planted...stem plants are important for many reasons and needed for soil based tanks-fast growth that will use ammonia and DOC's, roots send oxygen into the soil to prevent anaerobic areas, easy to propagate, plant and generally easy to grow to name a few reasons they are important for a successful soil based tank.
Aracharis-a good plant but not always dependable for soil based tanks..

Wisteria is a good choice......moneywort I have never kept this plant to know much about it...

As I posted earlier-it is important to start with several different types of stem plants since they can be different in every tank...some do great and other don't......usually stem plants are sold in bunches of 6-12 stems and in a 10gal tank I would start with at least 2 bunches of 4 different species of stems....you can plant other types of plants too...like vals, sags, swords, crypt and as the tank mature and the soil starts its life underwater you can start removing some of the stem plants to use in another new planted tank...lol.....giving the rosette plants more room to grow and reproduce so their babies can be moved to the new tanks...lol....you start with one tank and usually the plant growth with soil based tanks are so fast that soon you are setting up that second, third...etc.....just for all the plant growth.....often you only need to buy plants once....lol......planted tanks can be addictive.....lol.....

Soil based tanks are meant to be low tech, low light and low care...but lots of fun....you don't need added ferts, CO2 or even filtration unless you want the water movement......the tank is somewhat self contained little ecosystem that create everything it needs once it has matured....


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> I wouldn't use the manure type soils this could cause algae issue....you want some type of regular organic type potting soil, top soil or if you live in an area that is free of pesticide you can go dig dirt out of your yard and use this.
> 
> Although hornwort is a nice plant-I wouldn't use this and it is really not good planted...stem plants are important for many reasons and needed for soil based tanks-fast growth that will use ammonia and DOC's, roots send oxygen into the soil to prevent anaerobic areas, easy to propagate, plant and generally easy to grow to name a few reasons they are important for a successful soil based tank.
> Aracharis-a good plant but not always dependable for soil based tanks..
> ...


Thanks for the info Guru. I was already looking at CO2 and all that, glad I don't have to. And I am guessing you keep a lot more then just bettas, right?


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

I love living in the country and knowing whats going on so its great to know I can use my soil from the ground. I figure I would get it from below my deck just in case to avoid any weedkiller or anything that could be left over. My deck's about 15 ft out so i'll get the dirt from the middle back by the house where the weedkiller never reaches. Is there any good way to get any unwanted bugs out of it just in case? I was planning on doing a layer of soil on the bottom of a tub and putting some water over it for a bit to drive out any burrowed big bugs and run a hose through it both to rince and clean any rocks or the like.

For lighting I think I'm gonna do what my brother has which is a light strip with glass over the top of the tank, cut in half to allow the other half to be open.

So far here is my list of planned plants:

Water Wisteria 
Echinodorus Bleheri (amazon sword)
Hygrophila Angustifolia
Lugwigia Arcuata
Lugwigia Glandulosa
Amazon Frogbit
Rotala Indica

Does anyone have any knowledge of sweetaquatics.com? Because that's what I used to calculate the prices and it comes out to be around $17 for almost 2 of each plus about $10.50 for shipping so roughly around $28ish bucks give or take.

Sound good?


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Wisteria is a good choice......moneywort I have never kept this plant to know much about it...


I have moneywort and I love it which is even better seeing as I bought it on a whim. It seems to me that it likes brighter lights then others but beware. Mine once in awhile will loose leaves but soon replace them but that could just be my tank. It also has an interresting way to sprout new leaves. At first when you see it it looks like its going to bloom kinda looking like a tulip before it opens but when it does it reveals its actually new leaves. 

Here's a picture of one thats in my 3 gal thats around 9 or 10 inches(the wisteria is on the right as well as jude's tailfin) :


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes, I keep and breed several different fish species and inverts as well as plants for re-sale and/or store credit to pay for my hobby....

Using dirt from your yard...sift well and remove any big pieces of stuff...just like with potting soil.....best to sift first and as far as bugs.....I don't ever worry about them...once they are underwater they usually drown and die becoming part of the little ecosystem feeding plants and producing natural CO2 from decomp......

Sweetaquatics was one of the place I ordered my start of plants and was very happy with them, however, this also was a long time ago....lol...and when they offered Free shipping on orders over $30.00...that was a good deal....and the selling point when I was looking for plants....when I bought from them they also grew all their plants submersed and so you didn't have the emersed/submersed growth issues......very happy with quality and number of plants


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Well that's easier to do i suppose I just don't want any nasty giant bettles to crawl out and in to my room but I suppose they would all be shifted away when I take all the big stuff out.

That's great to know that they have great service. I don't really mind the $10.50 shipping because in reality its cheaper still to go to them then to buy them from a Petsmart or the like. As for my list is that a good number of stem plants? Also am I able to plant my amazon sword in there as well? Or should I wait until the stem's do their job? sorry for all the questions. I don't want to mess this up.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Plant and scape the tank how you want the finial look with the rosette and hard scape items...you want to limit too much moving and re-planting that you can in the beginning...so yes, plant the swords and other rosette type plants...but be aware some species of swords can out grow a 10gal fairly fast.....I use amazon swords in mine and try to keep them kinda stunted in away....by pinching the outer/larger leaves on a regular basis, however, they can get a pretty big root mass too ans when happy they will send out runners usually from the top but I have had them shoot out from the bottom too

Once the tank matures-you can start removing some of the stem plants to give the other more room/light to grow

In my soil based tanks-I pinch the stem plants at the base and then replant so I don't disrupt the soil too much...sometime they may grow again but usually the root will go ahead and die and the decomp just adds more nutrients to the soil for the other plants and the decomp also adds small amount of CO2...so all is good....lol.....

Even when I do disrupt the soil layer from pulling and/or planting...the soil that is kicked up will settle pretty fast and so I don't stress over it...if you use a filter it is a good idea to turn if off to limit any soil/sand from getting into the impeller if its an HOB type filter that is...lol.....

Plant list is good, however, be aware that the red plants may not stay red in low/mod light tanks and in soil based tanks they are more a low tech type setup and if you add too much light you can end up with an algae farm....all be it...some algae can be pretty, expected and normal...you still want to keep it under control so it doesn't out compete the plants for all the nutrients, light...etc.....


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

I wonder if it would be best to get a strip and try a 25watt bulb? To see if it is to much and if it is then switch out the bulb for a 15watt perhaps. I don't know the details on lights to know if you ahve two bulbs of 15 if that equals 30 watts together or not. Though I think I do want to go with strips rather then a hood then i'll just ahve me dad cut some pexiglass to fi the top


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> I wonder if it would be best to get a strip and try a 25watt bulb? To see if it is to much and if it is then switch out the bulb for a 15watt perhaps. I don't know the details on lights to know if you ahve two bulbs of 15 if that equals 30 watts together or not. Though I think I do want to go with strips rather then a hood then i'll just ahve me dad cut some pexiglass to fi the top


2 15watt bulbs would be the same as 1 30watt bulb. So you would be good with that if you want that much light. You could always go for a T5HO fixture, but that may be too much light for your application.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Watts are an old term and just to give a general idea...what is more important is the kelvin and what the plant use for energy......


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yes right of course.

Now to find an affordable strip light hmm. What lights do you use OldFishLady?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I use/buy the GE brand daylight 6500k bulbs from the lighting department at wal-mart, home depot or lowes.....cheaper than bulbs labeled for aquarium use...lol....same bulbs different label.....


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Ah ok because I was looking and they have flourecent light strips you put under a counter or in a closet for light that have covers over the bulbs. Think those would work?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have one and I removed the cover then replaced the bulb with a daylight 6500k and it is working fine...even after it fell in a tank...lol.....thanks kitty cats...lol....


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Awesome! because Wally World has like 6 inch strips for say going for 5 bucks on clearence right now  and I figure with the 6 inch strips I can rearrange them and what not. but I think i'll look to see if theres a better length somewhere


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> Awesome! because Wally World has like 6 inch strips for say going for 5 bucks on clearence right now  and I figure with the 6 inch strips I can rearrange them and what not. but I think i'll look to see if theres a better length somewhere


You can even get a simple shop light that takes a T8 or T5 and use that. If you are a good DIYer you can rig a hood of some type to hang the light.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

I still don't know what T8 and T5 mean...


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> I still don't know what T8 and T5 mean...


Info on on both types of bulbs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp

Probably way more info than necessary, but whatever. Go down to Advantageous. That will give you a little more insight to them.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

totally got a light fixture and daylight bulbs(6500K) for only $14.93ish. The lights VERY bright thats in there now. but now I only nee dot save up for the plants then i'll be good


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> totally got a light fixture and daylight bulbs(6500K) for only $14.93ish. The lights VERY bright thats in there now. but now I only nee dot save up for the plants then i'll be good


Not bad. I love getting cheap stuff like that. You would be amazed at what you can find on craigslist as well.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> Not bad. I love getting cheap stuff like that. You would be amazed at what you can find on craigslist as well.


 
I'm always on Craigslist but whenever I see a deal don't have the money then they tend to get sold before I end up gettign the money. Plus everything related to fish tanks tends to be $75+ most of the time or round $40 and I get 40$ each week with over half of it being my gas money.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> I'm always on Craigslist but whenever I see a deal don't have the money then they tend to get sold before I end up gettign the money. Plus everything related to fish tanks tends to be $75+ most of the time or round $40 and I get 40$ each week with over half of it being my gas money.


That sucks. I would hate that.


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Oh I do lol. Luckily I might have a job now so i'll be getting more money


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Bettawolf19 said:


> Oh I do lol. Luckily I might have a job now so i'll be getting more money


That will really come in handy when multitank syndrome kicks in as it has done to me.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> That will really come in handy when multitank syndrome kicks in as it has done to me.


Oh no.....you caught it too....laffs......MTS........(multi-tank-syndrome) I have had a bad case of this going on for over 40 years now....I can't beat it so I just embrace it....laffs.....


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## Bettawolf19 (Jul 15, 2010)

Sometimes thats all that you can do. Last year I had one betta fish this year I have 9 lol. Last year I had one tank this year I have 5.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Oh no.....you caught it too....laffs......MTS........(multi-tank-syndrome) I have had a bad case of this going on for over 40 years now....I can't beat it so I just embrace it....laffs.....


Lol. I have 3 tanks at the moment and I am setting one more up and a Paludarium. At one point I had 7 going though.



Bettawolf19 said:


> Sometimes thats all that you can do. Last year I had one betta fish this year I have 9 lol. Last year I had one tank this year I have 5.


I was never into Betta fish until my girlfriend wanted one, now I love them. I think I need to find a koi betta though.


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