# Can Buttercup survive the week?



## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Hello, my name is Andie. On Thursday, I stupidly allowed my toddler to talk me into purchasing a Betta fish from a new Petco without doing the research necessary. Needless to say, the pet store was less than helpful. Let me begin by stating that I am a single mother on an extremely limited budget. That said, I didn't mention that to the pet store employee who urged me to purchase a tiny bowl or mini tank to house our fish to be. In addition, the entire store was out of water conditioner, so I bought a bottle of Hydro2Pro thinking it would last me until I could find the conditioner a few days later. That was my next mistake. I also allowed him to talk me into purchasing a random pack of Betta pellets when he claimed they were all the same and it didn't matter which one I got. I should have asked what they were feeding them there and tried to remain consistant.

 Next the man told me that the fish would be okay in one of those plastic bags filled with water for 3-4 hours, but the cashier disagreed. She said they were only okay in there for an hour or so. Since I had a two hour commute home, they decided to rinse out the new mini tank and fill it with water from one of their fish tanks. I was entirely grateful, but I didn't realize that the valve on the bottom was leaking. I managed to get Buttercup and his tank onto the back of the stroller and take it home on the subway with less than half the water splashing out. When we got off the train, it was pouring rain, but I still pushed the baby and the betta to my apt. I looked pretty silly pushing the stroller with one hand and holding the fish in the other to avoid spilling. As soon as we got home, I put the fish into a cup of water while I cleaned out the tank and added the gravel and plant it came with. 

Buttercup jumped right out of the cup and into the sink beneath the drain grate, but I acted quickly and scooped him up managing to save him. Once I finally had him situated, I let my daughter feed him, but he just spit the pellets right back out. I chalked it up to his new environment and dramatic transport home. Everything was fine for a couple of hours until I heard the telltale sound of plastic hitting the floor. My daughter had knocked over the tank! Rescue number two ensued. Finally Buttercup was back in his tank and we went to bed. When we woke up in the m0rning, I was astonished to find the tank practically empty with about an inch of water left at the bottom. Not good. I didn't have much bottled fish water left, so I had to mix it with a little bit of tap water. I have since done my research and ordered the supplies I need to better care for Buttercup, but they won't be here until Friday July 5th.

I couldn't afford a two gallon tank, but I have a 1 gallon one coming along with a little heater, thermometer, bloodworms, Hikari food, conditioner, silk plants, and nitrastrate crystals for the bottom of the tank. I have now spent a total of over a hundred dollars I didn't have, but I made the choice to purchase the fish, so I have to be a responsible pet owner. I just don't know if Buttercup will be able to hold out for reinforcements. It's over 48 hours later and he is still not eating, which according to my research probably won't kill him, but what about his housing situation (or lack there of)??? He even spits the pellets out when I break them in half. I also tried a trick I saw on one of the help sites involving placing a straw over the spit out pellet. He swam up to the straw and snatched the regurgitated pellet a couple of times, but spit it out again and again.

He is in a tall glass vase with only about 3 inches of water and a little gravel at the bottom. It is a little bigger than his petstore home, but far from ideal. I didn't put the plant in because it was plastic and I didn't want it to tear his fins. I know that I can't add tap water, but the soonest I can get to a pet store will be Tuesday and really, I don't get paid until Wed or Thurs. There are no pet stores in the area and I don't drive. I have a Brita Filter I could use or bottled baby water with flouride, but I don't know if that is okay to add to his environment. I don't want to make his situation any worse than it already is.

He seems to be swimming around and pleased to see me. He's a little wary of the baby, but I can't blame him for that after she knocked him over. I put a mirror next to him in case he got lonely and my daughter and I have been singing and talking to him. He didn't show a reaction to the mirror not even a flare. The idea of him suffocating in his own ammonia, however, breaks my heart. I didn't realize how attached I would become to this little fish in 48 hours! I figured if I could keep a human child alive for two and a half years, then I would be able to care for a fish. Was I wrong? What can I do to ensure his health and safety until he can be re-housed in a better environment? Does he have any chance at all of surviving and if so, is there anything else I can do to make his odds a little better?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

It is possible for you to age your own water by simply drawing water from your tap and sitting it somewhere for 24 hours or more. 
Its not as effective as using a chemical as that contains compounds that bind to and inactivate harmful things like chlorine, but since you already have the supplies on the way it is a good way to ensure you have spare water on hand, you can speed this along by boiling it first then letting it sit to cool and age.

Not eating is common in bettas freshly home and they can go for a suprising number of days before you really need to worry, another cause is that he may be having trouble if the pellets are too big.

If he isn't flaring at the mirror he may just be overwhelmed, after all he needs to feel at home before he will want to defend it.

As for his plant, not all plastic is bad, a common test people use is to run a stocking over the plant, if it doesn't snag the stocking it should be safe for your betta, however silk or real is preferred just to save accidents.

Also it is good to see you trying hard, many people on this site were sold a tiny kit and told to be happy (I know I was) and it takes a good person to make a stand and pick something better. Buttercup is a lucky boy.

(edited for spelling)


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

+1 to what taeanna said, in a pinch you can use bottled water such as spring or drinking water, do not use distilled though, the most important thing you can do till all the supplies come is to keep his water clean and his stress level down and he will eventually eat, I have had new bettas spit out omega one and NLS betta pellets......sometimes they just have to get used to the new food, other than that you can get frozen brine shrimp or blood worms as a treat


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

The bottled water I have is steam distilled filtered and ozonated with added flouride, potassium bicarbonite, calcium chloride, and magnesium chloride. If that is no good, what about using a Brita to filter the tap water? I have a pitcher of Brita that has been sitting for a long time in the fridge. If I let the water warm to room temperature, is it okay to add some of that? Should I try to fill a bottle with it and then soak the bottle in warm tap water so the temperature rises faster? Also, how should I add the water? How much is safe to add at a time? Should I take out some of the old water first?


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

Welcome HeadlessLegoMom to our community. To keep Buttercup healthy make sure you give him a fresh water change either later on tonight or tomorrow. This will keep him calm until everything else arrives. Don't hesitate to post anything else. I am still learning new things from the more experience owners. This site is the BEST for anything about betta care.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Nobody answered on how much water to take out or put in at a time, so I did an 85% water change with the filtered Brita water. He seemed happy to either have more water to swim in or clean water---possibly both, but he still won't eat the pellets I broke in half. I also put him about a foot away from boiling water to raise his water temp for a little while and he seemed to like that too. I hope he makes it until the heater and food get here... He seems to like my daughter's colored light-up musical toys as well.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

*I am just a little overwhelmed trying to decipher between water conditioner, aquarium salt, stress coat, Betta Revive, and Betta Ultimate. Which one(s) do I need to make a safe, healthy environment for Buttercup? Do they all get used individually or are some of them meant for silmutaneous use?*

*My Tetra AquaSafe plus will be here on Tuesday, but if there is anything else I will need for the water I need to know which ones to get/most effective brands.*


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Well, where to start, the big thing is any water conditioner that gets rid of chlorine and heavy metals and such, some like prime will turn ammonia safe for 48 hours, other than that there really is no difference, the ones with a "stress coat" is usually just aloevera to promote the fishes natural slime coat. 

ok now all teh stuff like betta revive betta ult and so on you do not need, I would recommend having some aquarium salt on hand though for treating things like finrot or other external minor problems, you can also use bettafix for minor problems like finrot and the like, most people on this site will say bettafix will kill your betta by coating it's labrynth organ with tea tree oil, I as of yet have not seen one published anything stating this and believe me API makes this product and I trust them, they are not going to sell you something to kill your fix, most fish die from poor water quality or being over dosed on meds or are given the wrong kind of med for the wrong problem bettafix is basically for minor wounds it's like bactine,I would use bactine if I feel down and scraped my knee but if it turned into a staff infection I doubt it would help. it's for minor finrot and stuff liek that not treating a colamaris, and to those who want to argue this post up some links with facts.I have used bettafix many many times and yep all of them survived it, the only other thing I would have on hand for a treatment would be pure epsom salt, no coloring or scent added to treat internal swelling and it's also a laxative, you do not need to use either unless there is a problem but are good to have on hand the rest of the onhand things can get pricey and I would wait till you needed them, the only other thing I would suggest would be getting a few live aquarium plants for the tank, they will help keep the water clean, and give him cover and places to sleep and so on


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you so much for responding! I ordered a couple of silk plants because I am not sure that I am up for the task of caring for a live plant just yet. Unfortunately, the largest tank I can afford right now is just under a gallon, but it will have a mini heater and thermometer plus frequent partial water changes wth siphon. Hopefully I can save up to upgrade to a 2 gallon soon and then learn about plants and such. *So do I add a pinch of aquarium salt every time I do a partial water change or only if there seems to be a problem? *(I will buy some epsom salt as well. Funny that it reduces swelling safely in humans AND fish)

If you had told me last month that I would be singing to, dancing for, and talking to a Betta fish, I wouldn't have believed you! Who knew a pretty little royal blue fish with personality for days could bring such joy? Now if only he would eat! I hope his treats come soon... I ordered dried bloodworms, but I would also like to try daphnia and maybe brine shrimp provided he doesn't starve to death first. I am pretty sure the poor thing is hungry, but doesn't like the pellets I got. :-(


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Well it sounds like you have more than you need coming but the good news is that you won't be running out of conditioner anytime soon.

For the short term, you're going to have a lot of ammonia built up in 3" of water so I'd do 100% water changes daily with de-chlorinated water until you can get him into his new house. You should replace the water that's there and add as much as you can to the container that he's in. I think spring water would be better than not changing the water at all. 

And GRRRRRRR!!! to a pet store that runs out of water conditioner :frustrated: How does that happen??

Betta Ultimate, Stress Coat, and Tetra Aquasafe are all water conditioners. Betta Ultimate will be fine until you get your Aquasafe in the mail. 

As for AQ salt - it is not necessary. It is however good to have on hand in the event that your fish becomes ill - it helps with gill function and boosts electrolytes so helps in recovery.

For feeding - I always soak the betta pellets in some tank water for 5-10 minutes beforehand. Try soaking two or three pellets with a bit of fresh garlic and see if that entices him to eat. Freeze dried bloodworms should also be soaked to reconstitute them before feeding and they can be given as a treat in place of your staple food a few times a week. Maybe 3 or 4 of them maximum.

And since you're probably not going to be able to cycle a one gallon tank, you'll want to do multiple water changes in a one week timeframe. You can purchase a small siphon to remove the waste off of the bottom while removing the water and you won't have to worry about stressing out the fish by popping him in and out of the tank every time you change the water.

Just thinking out loud here but since you haven't actually received your new tank, if it's something you can return for a full refund - you might want to consider checking out your local Craigslist ads for tanks/complete setups with filters heaters for far less money than you've spent on new. I see 5-10 gallon setups all day long on my local CL in the $25- $30 range. Just throwing that out there because it will save you a lot of work each week in the long run if that's an option for you.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He is in about 5" of water now that I was able to add tap water that had been brita filtered, left out over 24 hours, and warmed to room temp and seems much happier. Maybe I can add another inch, but I don't want him to jump out again. Until his tank comes, I will continue to do daily water changes of 80%. You recommend a full 100% change, but I am worried of shocking him. *The bottled water I have is steam distilled filtered and ozonated with added flouride, potassium bicarbonite, calcium chloride, and magnesium chloride is that okay to use or no?* I wish I could return the .7 aquarium, but I bought it on Ebay thinking I was being generous compared to the tank Petco sold me. If I send it back I lose $20 in shipping plus another $10-20 in shipping costs to mail a new one. I will try to save up a bit and keep my eye on Craigslist though. If my toddler would start using her potty instead of diapers, I would have extra $ for an awesome aquarium! *I am going to try the garlic thing if I have any here. Should I crush it up in water or just soak a clove? Sorry I need moron proof specifics here! The pellets seem to sink to the bottom when wet... *Thanks a million for taking the time to type me through this. It means the world to me and Buttercup.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

No do not use that water with the added stuff, and if you can't really afford a "tank" I bought my girl friend a 2 gallon jar from walmart it is for cookies or something like that for 10 bucks, its glass and pretty thick and pretty nice here is a link to it http://www.walmart.com/ip/Anchor-Hocking-Heritage-Hill-2-Gal-Jar-with-Lid/16486707 we will be using it for a shrimp tank, keep an eye on craigslist and freecycle, oh and of course do not use the lid for the jar lol if you end up going with something like that


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Garlic soaking seemed to interest him, but he still spit it out. Should I keep trying to offer this food twice daily or wait until I have something new for him to try? I have been trying to give it to him for four days now without success. He just must not like it I guess.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Stone that would be a great idea if I didn't have a two year old who would stick her hand right in! I'll think of something. Just need a tank big enough she can't knock it over, but small enough to fit into our tiny apt. without repercussions from management who does monthly inspections. The joys of low income housing :sarcastic:


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

If you had told me last month that I would be singing to, dancing for, and talking to a Betta fish, I wouldn't have believed you! Who knew a pretty little royal blue fish with personality for days could bring such joy? Now if only he would eat! I hope his treats come soon... I ordered dried bloodworms, but I would also like to try daphnia and maybe brine shrimp provided he doesn't starve to death first. I am pretty sure the poor thing is hungry, but doesn't like the pellets I got. :-([/quote]

Ha ha  A lot of us didn't know how much personality was available in such a small package until we got our first betta. 

Don't despair about him eating yet. I've never had a betta pass up a Hikari pellet although it takes some longer than others to eat. For the most part, mine eat right away. Try that garlic soak and then leave the area for a while. He's probably stressed out from all the newness of his surroundings etc...


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

So stress can make them spit out the food too? I figured the pieces were too big or yucky ingredients. I even called the pet store to try and find out what brand they were feeding them. When the Hikari comes, if he won't eat it I will try NLS (New Life Spectrum) because it has garlic in it. Do you happen to know approx. how much they charge for frozen daphnia or brine shrimp at the pet store? Do those come from different companies as well? Let's face it, I won't be getting any accurate answers from Petco so any suggestions from owners of happy bettas are greatly appreciated.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> Garlic soaking seemed to interest him, but he still spit it out. Should I keep trying to offer this food twice daily or wait until I have something new for him to try? I have been trying to give it to him for four days now without success. He just must not like it I guess.


Do you have anything else on hand? Maybe he's used to flakes? Did they tell you what he was fed at the store?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Romad said:


> Do you have anything else on hand? Maybe he's used to flakes? Did they tell you what he was fed at the store?


They said pellets, but they didn't tell me what kind. The guy told me to feed him once every three to four days. If I can afford some frozen treat to tide him over until the Hikari gets here, then I will. *Do you know about how much frozen brine shrimp or daphnia might cost at a pet store?*


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Hello HeadlessLegoMom would it be possible for you could call your local pet store and find out how much those items would cost ? It would be impossible for someone who does not live in your area to tell you how much those items would cost at your local pet shop unless they have shopped there themselves.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> They said pellets, but they didn't tell me what kind. The guy told me to feed him once every three to four days. If I can afford some frozen treat to tide him over until the Hikari gets here, then I will. *Do you know about how much frozen brine shrimp or daphnia might cost at a pet store?*


Not sure about Manhattan prices but I'll bet they're steeper than around here. I pay maybe $5 or so for a 4 oz. sheet of frozen brine shrimp. Do yourself a favor and get the sheet rather than the packaged cubes. For one fish, you only need to break off a really small piece of the sheet and thaw it in some tank water. If you buy the cubes, you'll end up throwing most of it out because it's waaaaay too much to feed one fish. 

Same goes for Daphnia and bloodworms. But daphnia is tiny tiny tiny and unless your fish eats every bit of it, you're going to foul up that water pretty quickly. 

You don't have to wait all that time in between to feed him. Just don't overfeed and you'll be good. Two or 3 pellets twice a day is plenty of food and then offer the occasional brine shrimp, blood worm in place of pellets. Only a few of the bloodworms if you go with frozen. The freeze dried are smaller so you can probably do 4 or so of those. Bettas stomachs are not much bigger than than one of their eyes so keep that in mind.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

You seem to have been through a lot for this little guy, kudos to you! 

For water changes in your vase, I would do daily 100% changes or changes every other day; whenever you're able to have the water available to him. RO and spring are good, but I prefer dechlorinated tap water as it contains all the vital minerals he needs to live and sustain a good immune system. Distilled literally has nothing to offer, just plain H20 without minerals. :I

Food - Hikari is possibly one of the worst brands you can get. It's full of fillers and it hardly has any whole meat added in.. I also don't recommend soaking as the nutrients in the food will leach out and the fish basically got empty calories. I love New Life Spectrum, full of meat and hardly any fillers. ^.^ Variety is also key as what Romad said. Just my opinion. 

And finally the aquarium salt, it's best to use it only when you need to. Prolonged use of the salt may harm his kidney and his immune system will form a resistance to it. (evolution is everywhere..)

Good luck with Buttercup!


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

Well about the feeding my first betta didn't eat for almost a week until he felt safe I wasn't home that much because of work so when I arrived y threw a pellet and he didn't pay attention to it the last three days of the week I spent more time at home and he kind of recognized me and he ate his pellets so they just have to get used to you I bought small pellets for him to eat cause the regular ones are kind of big

I admire your courage trying to give him a good living place


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks so much! I wasn't expecting an exact price :doh!: just a ballpark estimate. I am hoping they will be willing to exchange a frozen sheet of daphinia, blood worms, or dried shrimp if they carry it for the defective, leaky tank they sold me that almost killed my fish. *I live two hours from the pet store, will a frozen sheet of something be okay to feed Buttercup after the long commute home and a quick soak in tank water? They won't go bad I hope..*

I am also bringing back the crappy pellets since they told me all the pellets had the same ingredients, though I doubt they'll take them. If they were honest or more knowledgable this kind of thing wouldn't happen. This AQUARIAN crap starts with wheat, corn, AND soybean Yuck-Blech! No wonder he keeps spitting them out. I don't blame him one bit. *My first bottle of condioner came today, but it had an expiration of July 2013 on the bottom. Could it be less effective to use after the expiration date?*

*Also, there seems to be some kind of spot or bump above his left gil. I think he came with it, but I don't know what it is or if I should worry about it. I can't get the best look at it, but it looks clear-ish, almost like a little bubble...*


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

It could be a gill slit lump, my boy has one either side and i panicked at first thinking it was an infection. 
The water conditioner will still work, those expiry dates can refer to the organic matter in the bottle, as long as the inactivation chemicals are still working its just what you need.
And as for the frozen sheet? Wrap it in many sheets of newspaper for insulation and maybe buy something cold it can rest up against. Thats how I got mine home in the middle of an aussie summer, walked home with it too!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Insulated lunch box! (used to be for breast milk now for my new baby: Buttercup!) So I want to keep it cold on the way home and then defrost tiny pieces in tank water for how long before offering?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey Andie and everyone, sorry i have limited access to the computer, but i tried to read briefly all post and i want to add something. 
I just want to say keep trying feeding him and remove uneaten food so it don't contaminate the water. 

Do not use bettafix. It can be helpful in some cases but it very easy to overdose and then it become toxic for bettas. CHECK OUT the post #24. 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=142066&page=3

If your tank 1 gal or 2 gall i saw someone told you to make 100% water changes which is fine. I would recommend it too. If you acclimate the fish right way you not going to get stress him out.
The acclimation instructions:

1. can have betta in the changing cup with about 15% of the water and keep adding small amount of the new water about every 5 min for about 5-6 times -this way you he will get used to the temperature

2. Note the temperature of the water.

Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
Repeat steps 5-7, until about an hour has passed. (If he sits longer because you're studying, that's OK.)
Gently release him into the tank.

3. To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.

4. When I change the water I put him in the cup I got him in then I take everything out of the tank, rinse everything with warm tap water. Then I put everything back in the tank, fill it with dechlorinated new water, and then turn the heater on. When the tank water is the same as the cup water , then take the dirty cup water out and a little at a time and put clean tank water in the cup. After that I put the cup in the tank and he swims out.

Also about aquarium salt just like someone already said you do not need to add aquarium salt on regular basis. It doesn't prevent disease or parasites and long term use can cause resistant pathogens/parasites issues and kidney damage...and long term non-therapeutic dosage can limit it ability to work for treatment when needed
As long as he acting healthy he might still adjust to the new environment so hopefully he will start eating soon. But if his behavior changed or if he is not acting healthy (sitting on the bottom of the tank, hanging on the top etc) then something is wrong.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks so much for the water change info. So I found out that the pet store was feeding only frozen bloodworms. I gave him a bloodworm and then tried the NLS, but he spit out the NLS. I even got the smaller sized NLS for him. I ended up giving him some more bloodworms. He seems to like the way they wiggle as he will only eat one if it is moving.* Can he survive on bloodworms alone while I slowly introduce new foods to his diet? How many do I feed him at a time and once daily or twice?*

*It seems like there is a space between his gills and his body. The gills look like they are curved out a little bit and it looks worse than yesterday. I saw a Betta at the pet store today whose gills were totally opened up and hanging down and I am scared that will happen to Buttercup.*

*Also there was one tiny white spot on his underside when I got him, but now it looks like there may be two. I can't get a good look at them and I cannot tell if they look like salt or cotton.*

*Should I try to use the API Aquarium salt for these two things or is there something else I need to do?*


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## jona31 (May 19, 2013)

those little white spots may be ich


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> Thanks so much for the water change info. So I found out that the pet store was feeding only frozen bloodworms. I gave him a bloodworm and then tried the NLS, but he spit out the NLS. I even got the smaller sized NLS for him. I ended up giving him some more bloodworms. He seems to like the way they wiggle as he will only eat one if it is moving.* Can he survive on bloodworms alone while I slowly introduce new foods to his diet? How many do I feed him at a time and once daily or twice?*
> 
> *It seems like there is a space between his gills and his body. The gills look like they are curved out a little bit and it looks worse than yesterday. I saw a Betta at the pet store today whose gills were totally opened up and hanging down and I am scared that will happen to Buttercup.*
> 
> ...


The aquarium salt will help with any gill issues and possibly with ich, too. When I first got my fish, he got a gill infection from living in his pet store cup for so long. I treated him with aquarium salt. Last week, his gills began looking bad again because he had an ammonia spike in his tank and I treated with the salt again. It is really good for their gills, just make sure you don't use too much. Follow the dosing instructions on the back. The white spots could be ich. Just watch and see if more appear. Right now, one of the best things you can do for him is make sure his water is pristinely clean. If his gills start to get worse, you may have to use an antibiotic. I like the ones from the Maracyn line. I have had to do this once with my fish.

I know it feels like you are spending a lot of money right now. I am a broke college student, and I invested a lot into getting my first betta healthy within three weeks of buying him. When I finally got him back to health though, things went incredibly smoothly and it was a great investment. He even traveled six hours with me to another state without a single hiccup! They are very hardy and amazing pets, you just have to start off on the right foot and make sure they are 100% before you can truly start to enjoy them!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It can fix them or just prevent them from getting worse?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Do the white dots look like grains of salt?








I
That is ICK which is an external parasite. I use medication called quick cure to treat it but I think it can also be treated with just aquarium salt and higher water tempatures


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you. That is helpful. I wish I could get a better look at it on his tummy, but I guess I'll know for sure if it spreads. I am going to get the aquarium salt for the gills anyway so maybe it'll kill two birds with one salted stone.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

*OMG OMG OMG!!! I put Buttercup in his new bigger tank and once he was settled, I put out the mirror and HE FLARED!!! He keeps swimming to the mirror and flaring at himself gills and all then swimming away, posing, and going back for more! WOW! So beautiful. I am uber excited in case you couldn't tell.*
:blink::mrgreen::blink::mrgreen::blink::mrgreen: 

Got great pictures now. Also, seems like the white spot may just be an egg spot. He's eating and pooping and bringing me so much joy. Hurray! Thank you so much for your help everyone. I am a proud Momma!


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

If he is still in the glass, you need to (slowly) get your pH below 7. Ammonia becomes ammonium. In a glass the ammonia build up will be so fast that a daily water change is not enough. Also, the injuries likely mean physical damage which needs to heal...and ammonia is like rubbing salt into an open wound. Fish, including bettas, can survive in smaller spaces, but not well and at the risk of extreme evmtl. fluctuations in water sending the fish into shock. 

I would advise Craigslist...you can get tanks for free all the time, plus chemicals, foods, etc. I would not worry about the eating for now...they can go for a while. New Life makes a few pellets for finicky eaters using garlic, there are easy DIY recipes for fish that eat mainly meat, and the frozen bloodworms are enticing to virtually all fish. But if he's still in a small enclosure, the more you feed the faster ammonia builds.

Essentially, you need a tank, (possibly) heater, (possibly) filter, gravel, food, gravel vac, a book on the nitrogen cycle and fish health, a water treatment like Stress Coat, and ideally some sort of additive such as TheraP or Special Blend by Microbe Lift, which helps reduce ammonia and nitrite and organic waste by supplying the good bacteria which break down the toxins. Test strips are good too as water is to a fish as air is to us...bad quality and death will eventually come. You can get the tank (and I would advise a lid + light) for free, and often find many of the others as well given people are always giving them away, or selling them used at a reduced price.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I didn't see any free ones on Craigslist and the ones for sale were either outrageously priced, gigantic, or for pick-up only. Most of them were extremely large. I don't need more than five gallons. Being that I don't drive and I travel on the subway with my two year old and her stroller up and down all the stairs, I really don't see how I would even get a five gallon tank home if I could afford one. The heater and thermometer are on the way along with the stress coat, and I moved him into his new tank today so he is out of the glass.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

That is wonderful to hear that hes settling in so well!
If you keep his water clean and give him some time to get used to the tank he will even start making himself a bubblenest  the two signs of an happy fishy is a flare and a nest.

He is certainly a lucky boy to have you as his mum


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I really couldn't have done it without help from you, lilnaugrim, and everyone else on the site that has given me such valuable advice. I will try to post my new pictures today or tomorrow. Do you know the best place to purchase an additional fish? Is Aquabid better than the pet store in terms of betta health?


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

I would talk with breeders In this forum they have some beautiful bettas you won't be able to post at the betta classifieds yet but send them a private message I like the bettas that whatsupyall has 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=191281

But remember never two males in the same tank unless you have a division they're territorial with other males and for sure they would have healthy an beautiful bettas


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Ugh, the water is leaking out of his NEW tank too! The listing didn't mention anything about a spout on the bottom, or I wouldn't have bought it! Why would they put it on the bottom instead of on the side? Do you think it would be possible to seal it up with sealant? I could send it back, but it would cost almost as much as I paid to purchase it and I would still have to pay to ship a new one. Not to mention that would put Buttercup back into the space limited glass vase again. He seems so happy in there! I don't want to risk leaving it overnight and then finding an empty tank in the morning. Is there anything I might have at home that I could use to plug the hole up? Would funtack be harmful if I stuck it in the little hole???


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

For plugging holes, you want a clear type of silicone used for sealing. I'm not a big fan of tanks that arent sealed at the bottom where the weight of the water is going to be heaviest. You can usually find 2.5 gallon tanks from Marineland with glass lids included in the ballpark of 10-15 bucks. I got one on sale a week ago for $8. Their sealing is exceptional.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I know but I am going to be gone for 12 hours tomorrow, I don't have any silicone sealant, and I can't get a new tank before I go. What about a tampon?! I am desperate for a quick temporary fix because we will be gone tomorrow for like 12 hours...


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

A tampon would be bad. Perhaps a larger bowl lined with clear wrap if you are worried about fishwater making contact with the bowl, or a pitcher or bucket? When I bred fish, a lot of our operations were ran out of 5 gallon buckets which are pretty common in the house...if the bucket is in dirty condition, a trash bag liner will work well provided it is not one of the scented/treated ones.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I have been looking... I don't have a bowl big enough or a bucket. My plastic trash can is cracked and all my trash bags are scented, but I put some fun tack on the OUTSIDE of the spout where it won't come in contact with the tank water and I marked the water line so I can keep checking back for more leakage. I do have a pitcher, but it has been washed with soap. I also have a large pot, but it has also been washed in soap. Worst comes to worst, he'll have to go back into the vase, but that seems so unfair.


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## jona31 (May 19, 2013)

UMM hmmm you know I'm pretty sure it's ok to put a fish in a bowl that's been washed with soap as long as you thoroughly rinse it out after like extremely thorough no well it looks fine like it has to be perfect use hot water to wash out soap goodluck you great person me and my mom are praying for you but before you put buttercup in those things make sure everyone agrees with me ok


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Jona your avatar is a great clear picture. Your Betta has the same coloration that Buttercup has, but I have yet to get a picture as crystal clear as that!


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## jona31 (May 19, 2013)

aww thanks I love my pic


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If his tank will fit in the bathroom sink, line it with plastic wrap or cut up plastic grocery bags.

If you eventually want more Bettas and someone can take you to Wal-Mart, they have an in-store 10 gallon aquarium kit for around $30.00. It is in-store only. There are several threads on the forum explaining how to make DIY dividers. A 10 can hold three Bettas.

This five gallon can be delivered to home for 97 cents. It can be divided in half if you think you'll only want one more.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hawkeye-5...uorescent-Lighting-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/14660258

Yesterday I received Bettas I bought from an importer on eBay. He gives you a free Betta as a gift and doesn't charge for shipping. So, you get two Bettas for the price of one. I am very pleased with the quality and health of these fish and if I could have more Bettas (I can't; no room), I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/aquaworld68/m.html?item=281130947372&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

You can probably find Bettas just as pretty at the pet store for a lot less but thought you might enjoy looking.

Good luck!


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

If you're able to get to the pet store, decent sized Critter Keepers are fairly inexpensive (most under $10-15 for big ones) and seem to do well as Betta tanks. You can fit in a heater and filter too. Plenty of people on here use them. Though if you want to get another Betta, you would probably need two Critter Keepers, I don't know if there are any big enough to be comfortably dividable since I only have a small one as a hospital tank.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Large which is three gallons:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-s-Aquar...ltDomain_0&hash=item2ec8eaf57b#ht_1543wt_1286

Extra Large which is 5.9 gallons:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-s-Aquar...ltDomain_0&hash=item20d4357cf1#ht_1519wt_1286

Shipping is $6.99 per order; not per item. Don't know what they are at pet stores but if you have transportation difficulties, it might be worth the extra.


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## LittleDeer (May 12, 2013)

At least at my Petsmart (not sure about Petco, I rarely go there) they're actually a few dollars more than those eBay listing's, so it may be worth the couple dollars extra in shipping since you have problems with transportation. And one of the ones Russell just posted could definitely be divided for two comfortably n_n


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

*Tank Issues*

Happy 4th of July HeadlessLegoMom.
I would buy the 2.5 gallon Aqueon tank that Rusty is in. He is happy as can be.
The tank is made from a hard plastic and not glass. I got the tank at Petsmart.
Here is what the tank looks like. Rusty is swimming at the bottom center.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> I have been looking... I don't have a bowl big enough or a bucket. My plastic trash can is cracked and all my trash bags are scented, but I put some fun tack on the OUTSIDE of the spout where it won't come in contact with the tank water and I marked the water line so I can keep checking back for more leakage. I do have a pitcher, but it has been washed with soap. I also have a large pot, but it has also been washed in soap. Worst comes to worst, he'll have to go back into the vase, but that seems so unfair.


We closed for holidays wednesday-monday. I didn't want to live my bettas at work so i just brought big about 3-4 cups Tupperware (see through) . I brought them home and just do daily water changes . They are perfectly fine for a few days. If you don't have another choice.


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> I have been looking... I don't have a bowl big enough or a bucket. My plastic trash can is cracked and all my trash bags are scented, but I put some fun tack on the OUTSIDE of the spout where it won't come in contact with the tank water and I marked the water line so I can keep checking back for more leakage. I do have a pitcher, but it has been washed with soap. I also have a large pot, but it has also been washed in soap. Worst comes to worst, he'll have to go back into the vase, but that seems so unfair.


IMHO a larger bowl or pot washed with soap is completely safe provided it was cleaned well and rinsed well...it's safer than a smaller tank or cup, by far. Lining it with clear wrap is pretty common as breeders often do that with smaller temp tanks they use for spawning...drum liners are a breeder's best friend. Most people clean tanks with things much stronger with soap such as bleach, alcohol, potassium permag, and formalin. Bleach at a low dilution is really well liked because aeration, time, and most dechlorinators breaks the chlorine bond on any remaining bleach if it is not 100% rinsed off. Provided something is rinsed and cleaned well, what was previously inside of it isn't a big deal if no residue is left behind. When the fish is removed and you go back to using it, bleach, alcohol, and potassium permag at the correct solution:water ratio (which is stronger than if you were cleaning a tank) will kill virtually all organisms found in an aquarium. Formalin nukes everything but given how common bleach and isopropyl alcohol are plus how effective, IMO there's no need to buy something else if you have one of them already.

One of the worries is parameter shift which is the biggest single worry for any fish inside of a small enclosure and IMHO this should be more of a concern than feeding. The larger of a tank, the more dilution is the solution to pollution or change because the larger volume makes change slower to occur. For a small tank, if ambient air temp changes can result in water temp flucs that are faster than some fish can take, although to my understanding bettas are reasonably hardy fish meaning they will withstand a lot more than say discus or zebra plecos. The speed ammonia builds tho is probably the biggest issue with the speed that DO (dissolved oxygen) falls being second...the more you feed, the more ammonia builds and DO falls. In an almost paradoxical situation, the above issues can cause a fish to not accept food from stress, further complicating the situation. While bettas can breath air, like other air-breathing fish, water quality is important as for fish without breathing air. So the jars that bettas are kept inside of at stores are surprisingly one of the worst possible housing options...the water there is often blue because a small amount of methylene blue is added to increase DO level...many owners who house fish in tanks not much larger are not aware of this and how quickly DO levels can fall inside of smaller tanks without mechanical aeration.

If you get a 3-5 gallon bucket from Home Depot which is like $5, throw in the heater, a hiding spot, and add aeration/H2O changes that are faster than the DO level falls and ammonia builds and you can keep the fish in there indefinitely without worry until you find your ideal tank at the right price with the right features for you...a lot of fish live in 5 gallon buckets quite happily. And the much greater water volume than a glass/jar/vase is going to help the fish stay healthier.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your advice. Buttercup seems really happy in the .7 gallon tank with daily water changes until I can get him a better home. He has been flaring in the mirror AND in his tank reflection. Putting the funtack outside the valve has stopped any leakage and doesn't touch his water supply. I tried to use the siphon today, but it didn't work. I think that it was just defective because it looked like the valve inside was stuck open. I am assuming that I used it correctly, but not sure because the directions were in Chinese. (Literally) When it wouldn't suck up the water when I pumped, I decided I had to put him back in the vase while I emptied his tank, but I had a lot of trouble trying to get him into the Betta net. I was afraid that I was hurting him. I think I would prefer to siphon evey day and then do a complete change once a week. Should I get a mini siphon?

Between the Betta and the toddler, I haven't slept in days. I am way too tired to post the cool pictures I took, but I will try to get them up over the weekend. I hope everyone had a happy 4th of July! We traveled three hours each way on various subways and trains to see the fireworks in Hoboken, NJ, but couldn't see a thing due to the trees. When we finally got back to Brooklyn past midnight, there was a lovely firework show with an uninterrupted view: And so is my life! The day after I buy a nice new tank, someone will inevitably offer me one for free. :wink:


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I used a turkey baster to clean the bottom and a cup to remove the water. That way I could leave Si and Willie in their tanks during water changes. I never did 100%; probably more like 50% every other day.

To keep from whacking them with the water when I put it back in, I cut holes in a plastic cup so the water was diffused when it hit the tank.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I wish that would work for me as well, but the nitrastrate beads go nuts when water is added they start floating and scare the hell out of the fish. They are easy to clean, but I am not sure if they are a good thing or not yet. I did however order some pipettes which could pick up waste from the bottom. Don't you still have to do a 100% water change occasionally?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I might do 75% but never 100. I don't like stressing them by cupping or netting. I also check water parameters frequently.

I'm not familiar with nitrastrate; I use sand. Food and waste go down into gravel but stay on top of the sand for easier clean up.

I can't recall if you have a filter. However, this worked for me when I didn't have filters but it might not work for everyone.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

The turkey baster doesn't suck up the sand??


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

nitrastrate are these little beads this is how the listing described them:

A special polymer bead made from a particular formula to be neutrally buoyant, porous and of size and shape to allow the maximum empty space between them. 
The combination of these factors creates a spherule that allows nitrate laden water to slowly saturate the Nitrastrate particles. The anaerobic bacteria within the bead consume the nitrates to create compounds which, when they emerge, oxidize and release harmless Nitrogen gas.
Nitrastrate completes the nitrogen cycle.
The first truly new filter material that lasts forever & improves with age.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the description. Sounds neat. I used Seachem Stability to help my cycles along.

Never had a problem with baster sucking up sand. It sometimes got a little bit but you hold it a tad above the substrate so what you pick up is miniscule. Now I have filtered, planted tanks and just like the look of sand. I use a vacuum. I think my first vacuum was like yours; I couldn't get it to work, either.

BTW, are we up late or early?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

One of my tanks has gravel small enough to get sucked up the baster so I developed a slightly different technique. I fill the baster with tank water and use it to blow at the bit of detritus I'm trying to catch, then after the water pushes it up I chase after it and suck it up. Of course now my betta and I have a game where he chases the nozzle around...I can't decide if its fun or frustrating.

Also is the siphon you got a manually operated one like this? 
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mpBxfyaeJVSHG8EtSv1XJjw.jpg
That is the sort I use and they take some getting used to..but I like them much better than other kinds due to ease of cleaning and sterilisation


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Gosh I don't know. My daughter is two and already on a vampire sleep schedule!

Is there a limit to how long I should let Buttercup flare at himself in the mirror so he doesn't wear himself out?


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

If Buttercup is pecking at this reflection for more than a couple of minutes then I would remove the mirror. When Rusty's see his tank's reflection he just flares and pecks along and then swims away; this usually lasts about 15 seconds.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Buttercup will swim away but he keeps coming back to the mirror over and over again. He only flares out his beard when he comes back to the mirror and then deflates it to swim away. I usually let the game go on for 10-15 minutes if he isn't beating himself against the glass. When he does that, I take it away. He gets out of breath and has to get air often. I don't know if this is harmful to him or just a good workout...


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Only a minute or so once or twice a day is plenty.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

.7 gall i would really recommend to do full water changes. The only time when you don't need to do full water changes is in cycled tank. But you don't have to do daily water changes.You can do it every 2-3 days. Just make sure to acclimate him.


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> Buttercup will swim away but he keeps coming back to the mirror over and over again. He only flares out his beard when he comes back to the mirror and then deflates it to swim away. I usually let the game go on for 10-15 minutes if he isn't beating himself against the glass. When he does that, I take it away. *He gets out of breath and has to get air often. I don't know if this is harmful to him or just a good workout...*


A heavy breathing fish is often a sign that DO (dissolved oxygen) levels are lower than ideal, and may also indicate ammonia levels beyond the point of some stress. It is a common issue with smaller tanks that do not have aeration. How harmful it is to bettas which can breath normal air I do not know, but the speed that pollutants build in smaller tanks without any biological filtration can be very fast. 

Some water treatments like Prime neutralize ammonia, making it a good choice as a water treatment if ammonia will be developing...in any enclosure without a biological filter, ammonia will develop quickly as it is a waste byproduct of fish, and is expedited by food. I have a 2.5 gallon tank I could do water changes on every few months or less and be OK, but it has a strong biological filter and it is planted in which the beneficial bacteria and plants remove toxins, and plant's waste is actually beneficial for the fish and has made a balanced ecosystem. That can only happen tho in an environment in which the full nitrogen cycle is correctly balanced.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Left for twenty-four hours and came home to his tail torn and tattered. I am assuming that it is fin rot, but I am not sure. Aquarium salt & stress coat for that???


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

Neither will do much more than clean, warm water of the correct parameters. If ammonia is building up to a toxic level before you do a water change, or the DO level is dropping lower than what the fish needs for optimal health, nothing else is going to help.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It doesn't look like the other fin rot pictures I looked at though. There are holes or chunks missing... Maybe he bit it? My water test kit has not come yet...


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Betta tails can get damaged in all sorts of ways, fin blowouts look like ladders up his tail as if it were a stocking and are caused by flaring so hard it rips, bites look like horseshoe chunks and can either be from stress or in some cases because your fish is the betta version of a nail biter.
Give it some time and see what he looks like before you dose him, he may just need to regrow it.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It says my image has to have a url, so I have to put it onto a webpage to post it?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

you can upload from your computer by using the little paperclip tool. or if you uploaded through another website copy and paste the link, either way


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

*Is this fin rot???*


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Hmm the dark around the edges might be, but the ripping looks like a blowout. So one small problem has been compounded.

I would welcome more experienced keepers to chime in but if you are worried you might like to add a small amount of aquarium salt to the water, it helps heal external injuries.
Either that or just nice clean water, it does miracles


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I just made a new tank of warm water with the new thermometer & mini heater plus less than a tsp. of aquarium salt and some stress coat. I am slowly acclimating him to the water by adding a little to his cup every ten minutes. I tried to get him a bigger tank today by getting a ride to Walmart which is two hours away, but they only had a one gallon or two ten gallon tanks. *sigh*


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

It looks awful compared to my avatar picture and that was only taken a few days before!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

UPDATE: Now his tail is clamped too. I feel so badly that there isn't much I can do for him.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

Warm, clean water is the best thing for fin rot. You can use things like AQ salt as well. Stay away from anything with -fix in the name, it's bad for bettas.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I agree with Taeanna: Looks more like fin blow out.

Once you start treating with aquarium salt, continue for 10-14 days.

Good luck.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Even though the edges are black? It looks like it spread to one of his other fins as well...


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

Most important I don't know if you have a filter in it if so remove the carbon pad or preferably remove filter and remember aq salt you might need to add 3 teaspoons per gallon to make it therapeutic I was dealing with fib rot also Anhel helped me out and now my betta's fins are regrowing you have two options take filter out and do 100 % water changes daily or just remove the carbon and do 50% daily if you have stress coat it is a good option to ad to the treatment if you want to do 100% daily do 50 the firs two days and then 100% on the third day and keep it up for 10 to 13 days I don't know if the rest of the keepers agree with me


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

The bettas with tail like his , especially halfmoon bettas are prone to getting holes and rips in their fins. The fins are very fragile, and they can get torn just from flaring. Oldfishlady who was the one of the wisest person on the forum advised that due to breeding,genetics,water movement,etc,some larger finned males will have this problem chronically. Small homes with no water movement,no decor is the only way to keep this from happening.

I don't remember do you have decorations in his tank? The picture really looks like it a tear. Are you sure he has dark,discolored or ''smudged'' edges ?
Sorry i don't remember if you are using stress coat. Stress coat has Aloe Vera in it and really good for healing. Is he acting healthy otherwise?
If you really sure it fin rot and want to treat him you can use Add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Perform daily 100% water changes , acclimate him slowly. You can use aquarium salt up to 13 days.
I am bad with decision like that, some times  let me pm someone for another opinion if it really fin rot.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi HeadlessLegoMom,

Anhel asked me to take a look at your thread. It's kind of long, so I'm only going to look at the last few pages -- so tell me if there's anything else that I need to know!

Quick summary - does this cover the situation?
Buttercup is currently in a 0.7 gal tank with a mini-heater.
You put a mirror up for 10-15 minutes per day. This causes him to flare, but he starts to breathe heavily and needs to surface frequently for air.
You left for 24 hrs, and returned to find his tail tattered and torn. 
His fins are now clamped.

Questions:
1) What is the current temperature in his tank?
2) How often do you do water changes? 
3) What percentage of the water do you change each time?
4) What additives (if any) do you add to the water/tank?
5) What do you feed him? How much and how often?
6) Can you post a photo of his entire tank? I'd like to see what decorations are in there.
7) Does he have any plastic plants or hard ornaments? Their fins are like thin tissue paper, so its easy to snag the edges on things.


Recommendations: If this was my betta, I would: 
 *Upgrade his tank to something larger.*
A 0.7 gal tank needs water changes just about every other day. Toxins and wastes will build up quickly in a tank this size, and leave him prone to diseases and illnesses. (If you want to keep him in this tank, consider adding something like a sponge filter and/or live plants. These will help improve the water quality.)
*Stop using a mirror.*
To you, it's just a mirror. To him, it's a potential rival / competitor. His system gears up to fight (or flee). This puts a huge amount of stress on his immune system. He has just undergone a lot of changes in his life, including shipping to the store, transport to your home, etc. These have also put stress on his system. These stressors deplete his body's reserves, causing his system to have reduced capability to fight off infections or other issues.
* Increase the humidity of his air.*
You can do this by putting plastic food wrap over the top of his tank. Leave several inches of air for him to breathe though! This will increase the humidity level, which makes it easier for him to breathe and has a calming effect. (I'm not sure if you can do this with a 0.7 gal tank, though....)
 *Feed high-quality protein foods.*
Good nutrition is important, and aids their immune system. I don't know what food you're feeding him, but the best foods have a lot of proteins, and few grains/fillers.

I would not add anything to his tank right now, in terms of medications or salts. I would: 
 *Do daily water changes* to keep bacteria and toxin levels low. (Be sure to use a water conditioner. Since he is in a small tank, you may want to use a conditioner such as Prime, which temporarily neutralizes ammonia.)
 *Reduce stress.* (This means no flaring, and providing a calming environment, such as by increasing humidity, etc.)
 *Feed frequent, small meals.*
 *Monitor his fins closely. * If they get worse, then let us know. But for now, I would just try the above steps. Hopefully, his own immune system will be able to tackle the problem without the need for adding harsh medications.


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

Great advice. I had a VT once whose fins clamped up. You may want to lower the water in the tank if you notice he's having troubles swimming up to get air.


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

carlos puron said:


> Most important I don't know if you have a filter in it if so remove the carbon pad or preferably remove filter and *remember aq salt you might need to add 3 teaspoons per gallon to make it therapeutic*


That is a potentially unsafe level of dosing and if it is bacterial fin rot, salt will not cure it.


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

Well it did with my betta his fins are regrowing now and he's acting healthy maybe it's different with others as for me it worked


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Hi HeadlessLegoMom,
> 
> Anhel asked me to take a look at your thread. It's kind of long, so I'm only going to look at the last few pages -- so tell me if there's anything else that I need to know!
> 
> ...


Okay, I am going to answer all of your questions. First of all, I stopped putting the mirror out the day before I noticed the tearing. I think that the 24 hours we were gone he may have been flaring at his tank reflection though, and I don't know what I can do about that. Also, the only thing in his tank is a soft decoration. I tried to add a silk flower, but it was too big and he didn't like it. You can see the one decoration in this pic:









His tail is only clamped after water changes. Yesterdsy was the first time I used the heater, but I unplugged it when it got above 86 degrees. Yesterday the room temp water was 83, but today it was only 78, so I plugged the heater back in after cleaning his tank and the temp is currently 86.9. (when I was finished typing this, the temp had risen to 87.4 so I unplugged it) He is not having trouble swimming up for air or anything like that. I did notice that the holes were not in his tail anymore today, just tears now. I am assuming that the fin rot has to fall off before he can heal, right?

Also, I am in the process of searching for a bigger tank that I can afford. Keeping my eyes on Craigslist and Ebay, but since right now I need to do daily water changes anyway, the .7 will be okay until I can get a ride to bring bigger one to my apt. I had someone drive me two hours away to Walmart yesterday and they only had a 1 gallon or two 10 gallon tanks. Bad selection! I have been to 2 pet stores already as well.

I am doing a 100% water change daily because his tank is so small. I got my water test kit today and the nitrite and nitrate was at 0. The ammonia was at 0.50 before I changed his water and the PH was 6.8. Since yesterday I am adding two drops of stress coat and less than a tsp. of AQ Salt. (Before that I was only adding AquaSafe Plus conditioner.) There is no filter in his tank.

I was offering him pellets twice a day which he was spitting out even when I broke them into small pieces. Then I found out that the pet store only fed him frozen bloodworms, so I bought some. I also bought the mini NLS pellets for small fish. I started offering him a small piece off a frozen bloodworms cube once a day, but then trying to trick him into eating 2 tiny NLS pellets with it. He still spits out the pellets. I give him the frozen bloodworms once a day, but when I need to change his water, I also give him a couple of tiny pieces of a single bloodworm to get him into the cup. I feed him before I change his water to avoid any food sitting around causing extra ammonia. He seems to want more food, but I am scared to overfeed. One cube lasts me about a week.

I hope this answers all of your questions. While the tattered holes may have been a blow out, he has signs fin rot as well. Now that I have put my pictures on the computer, I can see that the edges were a dark charcoal gray even before the blow out. Hopefully he'll make a full recovery though since I caught it early. Thank you for all your help! Buttercup, my daughter, and I all greatly appreciate it!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

This is how it looks today. Is this better or worse? I'm thinking worse cause it spread to other fins. The picture of the tattered holes was from less than 24 hours ago...


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Wal-Mart will ship to home for 97 cents. Or, ship to store for free. I think I linked it before but here's the one I would recommend if you want a five-gallon. 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hawkeye-5...uorescent-Lighting-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/14660258

I would not get the one with the LED hood; not enough light.

Adding answer instead of new post:

Hard to tell because in the other photo he is flaring and you can see all his fins clearly.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Good point. I let him flare for a split second to get a photo to compare against:


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## lovefordebbie (Jul 7, 2013)

has he eaten yet? ( i skipped to last page lol) my fish didn't eat for 2 weeks!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I did ask LittleBlueFishlets to check on your thread , will see what she think. I want to add my piece of advice.

Do not put the heater in the tank. You are perfect example when you do not need it right now. With that warm temperature that you have you do not need the heater. And you keep stressing him out with the temperature fluctuation. He will be fine without it and the small fluctuation from the morning to night is gradual and not going to affect him.

I am wondering why with daily water changes you still have ammonia 0.50? Then you probobly have ammonia in your tap water. Let your water sit without water conditioner for 12 -24 hrs and check for ammonia. Some people have ammonia in the water. And if you have ammonia then it better to use Prime water conditioner in this situation. Prime converts ammonia to a harmless ammonium for 24-48 hrs. So if you use Prime it helps to neutralized things that other conditioners do not. 

Blood worms only, not enough to get all nutrients he needs. Keep offering pellets and keep trying to trick him. He eventually will eat. I had new fish that took me about 3-4 wks. Yes you need to remove uneaten food though. And with NLS it difficult because it sinking to the bottom right away. If you can buy new turkey buster you can use it to suck up the bottom. Well if you do daily eater changes then you don't even need it. Back to my betta that took 4 wks to eat, I was offering flakes and pellets whenever i have time, i tried to crush pellets too, i even fast him. I thought that betta will never eat , but eventually he ate.

He really don't have those holes any more . I am not sure if it fin rot because he has a lot of black color in him. Wait for another opinion about fin rot, but if those holes disapeared i wold wait on any treatiment just like LittleBlueFishlets recommended and do water changes with stress coat and see how he doing. Also STOP adding salt. It bad when you add non therapeutic dose of the salt. Non therapeutic dose doesn't prevent disease or parasites and will cause resistant pathogens issues....and will limit it ability to work for treatment when needed. The instructions on the box is just for preventative care and will not help. And also never add salt directly to the tank , you always need to pre mix it first and make sure it dissolved


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

*1) I would remove at least some (if not all) of the glass marbles/gems at the bottom of the tank.*

I looked at the photo in the PM that you sent me. Since it's only a 0.7 gal tank to start with, adding these reduces the water volume to an even lower amount. Less water means that toxins and ammonia build up more quickly. This can contribute to health problems, such as fin rot. Yes, the glass marbles/gems are pretty. But I would remove them until you can get a larger tank.​
*2) Can you get the temp in the tank to remain fairly stable, somewhere within the range of 77-86F?*

What is the air temperature in your home during the day? What is the air temp at night? It's possible that you keep your home warm enough that he doesn't need a heater right now. 

86-87F is at the high end of the range for bettas. 76-77F is the low range. You'll need to avoid large temp swings. But can you get the temp to remain fairly steady at a specific temp within that range. (For example, it should not fluctuate up and down from the top to the bottom of that range. But a day/night swing of several degrees is OK.)​
*3) What is the ammonia level of your tap water?*

You stated that the ammonia level before the water change was 0.50 ppm, and that you are doing daily water changes. Can you test the ammonia level of your tap water? 

I recommend using a water conditioner such as Prime, which temporarily neutralizes ammonia. If there is ammonia in the tank, this can lead to health problems, such as fin rot.

The pH of your water is excellent.​
*4) I would not add Aquarium salt at this time.*

Aquarium salt is useful for specific conditions. However, it contains sodium, which places stress on the kidneys. As I stated in my previous post, the goal right now is to reduce stress on his body. At this time, I don't see a need for aquarium salt. I would discontinue it.​
*5) A betta's stomach is about the size of its eye. Feed him an amount of food that's about equal in size to his eye. * 

This is a good general rule to follow when feeding, to avoid over/under feeding.​
*6) How do you do water changes?*

If his fins are clamped only immediately after a water change, it sounds like something during the process is causing stress. If you explain the procedure you use to do these, we might be able to offer advice on how to minimize stress during the process.

There are many ways to do a 100% water change and acclimate (reintroduce) your fish back into the tank. Here is one variation:

 Note the temperature of the water.
 Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
 Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
 Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min.
 Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
 Let his cup float for about 10 min.
 If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
 Repeat steps 5-7, until about an hour has passed. 
 Gently release him into the tank.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

So are you saying to use the Prime AND the Stress Coat simultaneously? The purple beads are the nitrite reducing things, I only added the gravel because the heater had to be an inch below it. Since I don't need the heater, I will remove most of the substrate. I think that it is the AQ salt that is stressing him since he wasn't clamping after being acclimated to a water change before I started using it and I will stop immediately.

My apt. tends to be pretty hot because it is an energy efficient building and the AC does not cool the apt. much. Nor does it reach the kitchen where Buttercup lives. Seems the water is between 79 and 83 degrees without the heater. I am going to test the ammonia of my tap water. I ordered a turkey baster last week along with sime pipettes to suck things up with and it should be here soon. He is blowing bubble nests and seems less miserable.

Also, since my tank was leaking, the seller refunded the money I paid for it, so I have some cash to go towards a more suitabke home for him now.


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

Good evening HeadlessLegoMom's. I would get the 2.5 Mini Bow Tank that some of us have. It would fit nicely in an apartment. I got mine at PetSmart. I am sure there is one or another pet store near where you live. Rusty just loves his home.
Here is what it looks like. Take care and keep asking any questions. I know I did when I first joined. This site will give good advice. Take care. Let us know how Buttercup is doing.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Just bought a 3 gallon. Should be here next week. Also, there must be ammonia in the water because I just checked his ammonia level after less than 20 hours after complete water change and it was at 1.0, so I need to know if you are recommending using BOTH the Prime (ammonia) AND the Stress Coat (fin rot).

There was no clamping after water change without the AQ Salt, so that is good. The tip of his top fin (I think that is the dorsal?) seems to be a greenish color. Is that good or bad? I also took out the thermometer and half the gravel/nitrate reducing stones from the bottom. Temp seems stable around 80. The only thing is that he seems hungry AGAIN and I am positive that he has had enough to eat today. He looks like he is trying to eat off the bottom of the tank and spitting out whatever he finds because it isn't food. There is no food at the bottom anyway save for a tiny pellet he spit out---the water is brand new.


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## NickZac (Jun 26, 2013)

Generally clamping immediately after a water change indicates something about the water is different than the water in the tank and the fish does not like the transition. The is always amplified when you have smaller tanks because large water changes are unavoidable, and water changes over 50% places a fish in potential danger if the water parameters deviate by too much, which can cause shock/temporary unhappiness. Since you now have a 3 gallon tank, you can do 1.5 gallon changes rather than having to do a full change and leave the fish in the tank during changes via gravel vacs.

If the fish is removed during cleaning, especially if via a net, that could explain both the stress and the tear to fin. Another possibility is the pH of the water changes with time...if pH in the tank is different from pH via the tap more than .2-.4, this can cause clamping as well. Temp changes over a few degrees can also, as can rearranging tank furniture as it changes set territories. The degree of deviation is what determines how extreme the effects may be.

If you do need to medicate, it will be much easier using a 3 galon. The tail looks a little beat up but not terrible. If it continues to get worse, especially if the edges get white, red, stringy, or discolored (or if behavior or locomotion changes occur), treatment for a bacterial infection may be advisable at that point. However, if this is physical damage-only, given the tail doesn't look badly damaged at all, the immune system will heal when given good, clean, and warm water.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Prime temporarily neutralizes ammonia. So I was suggesting you use Prime instead of Stress Coat.

If you have both conditioners... Use Prime only. 

However, hold onto the Stress Coat. Once he's in a larger tank (possibly with a filter), there will be less ammonia buildup, and you may be able to use Stress Coat again.

Both conditioners neutralize chlorine, chloramines and heavy metals. However, only Prime temporarily neutralizes ammonia. 

Also, I suggested testing the ammonia level in your tap water. Doing this will give you a baseline level. If the ammonia level in your tap water is higher than 0ppm, then you will probably want to continue to use Prime as your conditioner.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

The tap water tested .25 after sitting out for 24 hours, so I guess that explains why the ammonia in his tank is rising so fast. Hopefully this will improve when I get him into a bigger home next week. I'll purchase some prime tomorrow from the pet store.

However, his tail is definitely shorter today and more ragged looking. Is there anything I can use for his slime coat while using Prime as the conditioner?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Update: This morning I caught Buttercup flaring at his reflection beard and all. If he is going to keepp doing that, then it is no wonder he is down to half a tail. I don't suppose there is anything I can do to get him to stop, is there? Besides that he seems pretty alert and happy. I am going to pick up some prime tonight and start to dilute the ammonia in my tap water with some spring water.


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## jona31 (May 19, 2013)

hows he doing?


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

How is Buttercup this evening. I have to give you a big smily for all you have done to keep Buttercup healthy. You are on the way to being a good betta fish owner. Just keep his water clean and do your weekly water test. 
:BIGwinky:


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

He doesn't seem any worse than when I left this afternoon, so that is promising. I bought Prime for my tank, but it didn't come with any sort of dropper and the instructions say to use 5ml for a 50 gallon tank which would be 1 for every 10 gallons. How on earth am I supposed to get half a drop out at a time for my .7 tank?!

Had to go to multiple stores to find Prime. The stores were different chains like Petco and Petland Discounts, but they kept trying to sell me NiteOut instead which I don't know anything about and cost more than the Prime or only came in a three part cycling set. I didn't know if it was good or not and not willing to take a ten dollar risk.

I changed out about 65% of his water with my new turkey baster which was fun and productive because it cleansed the gravel and sucked out stuff I couldn't see in the tank water on my own. I replaced that water with a fresh mixture of tap water, spring water, 1/2 tsp. AQ Salt, Stress Coat, and then I dipped a dry straw into the Prime and stirred the mix with it because I don't know how else to get the Prime into the water without an eye dropper of appropriate size.

Also, LilNauGrim suggested placing a matte piece of white paper against the section of the tank where he was flaring hardcore beard and all and that seemed to help a ton. Tired now and hopeful that Buttercup will be just fine.

_PS- the Petco has some nerve posting signs about supporting responsible pet ownership when they have more sick Bettas than healthy ones. They must have gotten a new shipment because the shelves were crammed with dead bettas, popeyes, fin rotted fish, swim bladder sufferers, and even a hugely bloated dropsy fish with raised scales. I felt so bad for the fish and almost got an elephant ear or pink and purple veil tail, but decided against it because one fish is enough to nurse back to health on my budget and as the single mom of a mischevious toddler._


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

As for Prime i have 50 ml prime bottle with a dropper lid. Somehow none of the stores i am going have the small bottles any more. All other The instructions on the small bottle that i have is 2 drops per gallon. So those instructions will be for all sizes of the Prime. So you can safely use 2 drops per gallon .And tell you the truth i am using 4 drops per gallon for all my bettas . And especially that if you have ammonia in your tap water you definitely need to use 2 drops per gallon.

DO NOT PUT 1/2 OF the AQ salt. It is not therapeutic dose . If he is not worse i would watch him and make sure his fins don't get worse. If you really think he has fin rot and getting worse you can use aquarium salt. But the therapeutic dosage though. Non therapeutic not helping,and he will build resistant to the salt and it will limit it ability to work . 
The therapeutic dose is 1tsp/gall - 3tsp/gall with daily water changes. You need always pre mix it first and make sure it dissolve . You can use it up to 14 days ONLY.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

His tail IS getting worse and my tank is .7 of a gallon, so I am doing it right by using slightly more than half a teaspoon---that IS the therapeutic dose. When I used a whole tsp. he was clamping badly even after being acclimated. I just went out for 4 hours and his tail was shorter when I got back.

As for the Prime, I don't have a dropper and droppers come in all different sizes, so there is no way for me to know if I would be using too much or not enough. Being that my tank is UNDER a gallon, I don't know how I can measure and get the correct dose into his water.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Prime is dosed at 1 mL for 10 gal....

1 mL = 20 drops

A drop is a drop. It doesn't matter the size of the apparatus you use to produce the drop. (Really, it doesn't. You can use a large eyedropper, or a small eyedropper. It will still take about 20 drops of water to equal 1 mL.)

0.7 gal x (20 drops/gal) = 1.4 drops for your tank.

I would round up, and use 2 drops in the tank. It's OK to add slightly more. (It's less harmful to add a small amount extrea, than to not add enough.)

If you need an eyedropper, go to any pharmacy (CVS, Walmart, the drug store down the street). Ask at in the pharmacy section. They aren't expensive.

I would not use aquarium salt. (I'm pretty sure I've already said that, earlier in this thread.) 

Are you sure he has fin rot? Could he be tail biting?

Is there a reason you're only changing out 65% of the water? In a 0.7 gal tank, the ammonia and toxins will build up quickly. 

ETA: See post #94 on this thread.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I have been changing 100% of the water daily, I only did the 65% one time because I was exhausted at 2AM and my toddler was having a melt down tantrum and she won't sleep without me. I figured that since it was the day I got the prime, the fish would be okay until the morning when I did another 65% change. It is possible that he is tail biting, but I am also positive that he has fin rot because the tips of his other fins are black and crumbly.

I know you told me not to use the salt, but then two other people told me to use it if I was sure that it was fin rot. Plus it got worse the day I didn't use it. One of them has been helping me from the start and I trust them implicitly. Also, I ordered eye droppers and pipettes when I bought the fish, but they haven't arrived yet. I will look and see if I have any new baby medicine with a dropper still in the package.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Also, I tested your theory of "A drop is a drop" and it is not correct. You can make large drops or small drops depending on the opening size of the dropper. A syringe makes a different sized drop based on the guage of the needle. Just saying...

I found an eye dropper that had been used for simethicone and rinsed it out really well plus cleansed it with a nipple cleaning brush and put two drops of Prime in. Now just hoping for the best. I also noticed that the pectoral fin that is shorter turned white at the tip. Would that be rot or re-growth?

Also, Buttercup is flaring a lot again. At my daughter and everything else. He has one corner where he flares with his beard which is where the paper is at. I see a hole forming in his anal fin and I'm worried about another blow out. I also saw him chasing his tail, but I haven't seen him bite it.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Well... a drop of water is a defined volume. It's 0.050 mL per drop.... The volume of a drop has to do with physics (surface tension, viscosity, density, etc). If you're getting different volumes, then it's not really a "drop" of water, per the definition of a "drop." (Also, for substances other than water, it may not be 20 drops/mL.... Although, I did calculate the volume of my water conditioner, and it did work out to 20 drops/mL.)

For more information:

This website will convert drops to mL (or mL to drops), based on the formal "definition" of a drop: http://convert-to.com/conversion/volume/convert-drop-to-ml.html

And on this thread, see the 4th post calculations. The writer mathematically determines that there are 20.11 drops of water per mL. (This is a pretty cool discussion! He even discusses why rain drops can be larger than this.)... In another post on this same thread, they also discuss micro droppers. And yes, a syringe with a needle would fall under this classification, meaning that more drops would be required.... Personally, I use cheap disposable pipettes to measure out my water conditioner, not micro droppers or syringes. So I get 20 drops water per mL. And eyedroppers should yield the same results.... Anyway, here's the link: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/20711/Calculation-Volume-of-Droplet


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## karenluvsbettas623 (Jul 13, 2013)

HI headlesslegomom, wow you have been through allot with your little fish! 

well let me tell you, I had a BAD case of fin rot with my betta that was a real pain to deal with! I had my fish in a 1gallon bowl, the temperature was right and I did regular water changes. I bought him a decoration that was not sealed correctly and had chemicals. My bowl was smelling like nail polish! this caused his initial fin-rot and I believe he got real fin-rot as a secondary infection. I spent 40$ dollars on two different types of antibiotics for fin rot that did not work. Sometimes it got better only to relapse in a week. I was doing water changes every 2 days/aquarium salt/antibiotics. Finally it got really severe, to the point that I would take a picture and he would have lost a chunk in a matter of a couple of hours. Finally, I went to walmart and bought him a 5gallon clear storage container, 6.50$. Problem solved. Best investment of my life! I kept the bottom bare, would siphon out any waste as soon as I saw it, and did 50% water change a day and 100% every week. After it cleared, I only did 100% water changes once a week. To prevent unnecessary stress, I take hom out with a clear food container, I just scoop him out instead of netting him. It is easy to trap him since the container is transparent so he doesn't see it coming.

They key to clearing fin-rot is CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN water! The more water there is to dilute any toxins, the better! Do you have any storage containers around your house? use that. Your tap water is probably just fine! ammonia can build up really quickly in such a small tank. Normally with regular water changes it would be fine, but a betta was already has a case of fin-rot needs super clean water. When you mix with spring water notice that you are changing the ph of the water, and you would need to get the perfect mix every time to have it be the same. I do not recommend using spring water for that reason. When you do water changes, make sure the temperature is the same by feeling it with your fingers if you don't have a therm.

About the heater, the tank is too small for a heater because the temp will rise too high, anything above 80 is too high, high temperatures are bad for fin-rot.

Also, flaring does not cause fin-rot so if he flares at your daughter or other objects, that will not harm him. Try to get rid of the reflection but honestly I don not consider it to be a big deal in relation to fin-rot

Good luck!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I went out to do laundry for 4 hours and came home to another tail blow out. Seems to happen when we leave the house and he gets lonely I guess. As for the fin rot, it is worse than yesterday on his dorsal. Still minor, but definitely spreading. My pipettes came in the mail today though, and hopefully the 3 gallon tank will be here by Tuesday.

I didn't realize that the spring water would change the Ph, so what do you recommend? Doing exact measurements or not using it at all?


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Well... a drop of water is a defined volume. It's 0.050 mL per drop.... The volume of a drop has to do with physics (surface tension, viscosity, density, etc). If you're getting different volumes, then it's not really a "drop" of water, per the definition of a "drop." (Also, for substances other than water, it may not be 20 drops/mL.... Although, I did calculate the volume of my water conditioner, and it did work out to 20 drops/mL.)
> 
> For more information:
> 
> ...


Very interesting though I got lost on some of the math/physics since that has never been my strong point. I knew that I wasn't crazy thinking that not all rain drops were sized equally. I wish that the drawn diagram was explained in a way that I could understand it though. In any case, two drops of Prime it is!


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Today's Update:

At the advice of Anhel, I increased the dose of AQ Salt to a more effective dose. That in addition to the Prime and Stress Coat seems to have helped the little black crumbly bits at the tips of his top fin to fall off. I have also noticed that the tips of his ventral fins are either white or clear. I am not sure if they turned white from fin rot OR if they are clear and growing longer because he is healing. I hadn't noticed anything wrong with them, but the shorter one got a white/clear tip two days ago, and now the other one has one as well. *Fingers crossed that this is good*

His tail is a mess from the constant flaring and a second blow out, but there is definitely LESS black stuff on the tips. *Can a shredded tail grow and connect back together, or does that part have to fall off before a new part grows back?* I ask because when I was siphoning the bottom of his tank, I pulled up a blue and red strip of fin that didn't appear to have any rot or anything wrong with it. I have seen him chasing his tail, so I really hope he didn't bite it off.

In any case, I am very pleased because I just tricked Buttercup into swallowing his first NLS pellet without having to mix it with a bloodworm!!! Plus, when I started this thread, I wasn't sure he'd live a week and he's still swimming hard. His tail may be shrinking, but hopefully I've just about nipped the tail rot in the bud!


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Its good to see he is getting better.

Bettas can regrow their fins very well. I have even seen instances of fish that had lost theirs completely from various sources (I saw one story where an accidental tank swap put them in with a crayfish that tried to eat it) and they have regrown it entirely given time.
You will see that the fin will start growing transparent bits to knit all the bits back together slowly, this clear bit will go back to a normal color as the fins get thicker.


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## tigerhappy26 (Jul 14, 2013)

What I did was I went to walmart and got a nice 3 gallon half moon tank (with filter,bubbler) and rocks,betta,rocks,water conditioner,water jugs,etc for under fifty dollars so I don't usually shop in store because they have WAY better deals online. I know at walmart they have a ten gall (that I have) complete starter kit with (food,filter,chemicals,light,hood,etc) for $29.97 and I ended up having that tank for 3-4 years until it broke when it was being moved after we got a new house.So try checking your local stores and stuff or maybe a smaller pet store in your area for supplies and such. I know this probably answers no questions.


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## tigerhappy26 (Jul 14, 2013)

HeadlessLegoMom said:


> Today's Update:
> 
> At the advice of Anhel, I increased the dose of AQ Salt to a more effective dose. That in addition to the Prime and Stress Coat seems to have helped the little black crumbly bits at the tips of his top fin to fall off. I have also noticed that the tips of his ventral fins are either white or clear. I am not sure if they turned white from fin rot OR if they are clear and growing longer because he is healing. I hadn't noticed anything wrong with them, but the shorter one got a white/clear tip two days ago, and now the other one has one as well. *Fingers crossed that this is good*
> 
> ...


If you go back to petco they have a product called betta fix that is basically an all around antibiotic that could help is fin and it has good reviews.His fin should grow back if you give him this and it's very cheap for only $4.97 I know you're on a limited budget but it's whats good for your betta.Here is the name of the product API Splendid Betta BettaFix Remedy.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Please read post #24 about medicine with ''fix''

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2340898#post2340898

And if HeadlessLegoMom already using salt , and if it helps you don't need to switch to medications. The salt also has antibacterial/antifungal affect and a lot of less stressful on fish then medications


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I have heard many bad things about using products such as betta fix and much prefer to use conservative treatments unless absolutely necessary. As for Walmart, I don't live near one or drive, but I had someone drive me to one last week that was over an hour and a half away, and they only had three tanks for sale. A 1 gallon and two 10 gallons (too big for me), so I ordered a 3 gallon tetra half moon bubbler from Amazon. *I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to me and I am trying to give back by sharing my limited new-found knowledge with other new members.*

I think that the tips of his ventral fins are in fact clear and growing, but I wonder why his tail isn't. I don't expect it to happen overnight or anything, but I would be thrilled to see any sign of improvement that can leave me hopeful. *If you look at my avatar picture, you will see that the edge of his tail is a dark grayish color. Is it possible that is a band of gray color and that it will grow back that way instead of blue like I was expecting? I ask because I don't want to confuse a gray band for more fin rot...*


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I tried to upload some progress pictures (or lack thereof) of the last few days, but they are such a high resolution and the wrong format, so I have to e-mail them to myself, re-save as bitmap, then open in paint and re-save again as a jpeg which is a pain in the behind, but after I spent 45 minutes doing just that, the pictures wouldn't even load in my e-mail.

Only ONE picture loaded out of the progression of eight showing his dorsal with the rot at the tip and his tail getting shorter and shorter. This picture is the most recent though, so his tail is the shortest (but not as rotted looking as it was) and you can see the re-growth on his ventral:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think he bite his tail . Look at his caudal fins, top of the caudal fins it's a bite right there ''u'' shape mark.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> I think he bite his tail . Look at his caudal fins, top of the caudal fins it's a bite right there ''u'' shape mark.


I have said from day one that it is a possibility that he *may* bite his tail. But, if he does in fact bite his claudal, there is NOTHING that I can do about it. I CAN HOWEVER, do something about the fin rot that you seem to think is a figment of my imagination, so despite my daughter hitting me in the face and screaming for my attention, I just worked for an hour reformatting and saving some of the pictures I tried to post yesterday so that this debate can be settled once and for all. The first two are of the rotted part of his claudal tail, but in the third picture, you can see that the tips of his dorsal fin do indeed have fin rot. They have since crumbled and fallen off.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

If you can find the reason why he's biting his tail you can prevent it. Sometimes they do it because they're bored, nervous or just like their tail short. If your tank has many open areas without plants or decor he'll likely bite his tail. Same thing if he sees his reflection frequently.

You can add some silk plants or aquarium safe decor to make it less open. Bettas are naturally scared of wide, open places with no room to hide. It's really hard to fill a tank with too much decor when you have bettas. 

If its his reflection then you can tape a piece of paper to the side to help get rid of it. White sometimes works better than black.

Aside from trying to find the cause of his biting (it's hard, two of my bettas bite and I can't figure out why) it looks like you're doing everything right. Keep up water changes, that's the most important thing right there. Fin rot will progress so much better in "dirty" water than clean water.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes i wish he would stop biting. I think the best idea now is to keep up with water changes and aquarium salt . You already start the treatment a few days ago. So do the full course of it and see if he get better or at least don't get worse. It actually really good that you keep doing those pictures for comparison. 
I am bad to diagnose the fin rot but i don't see bad fin rot on 3rd picture. He has that dark black coloration all over his body . And i don't see that the fins are infected. But i am not that experienced so you don;t well i don't trust my self...
Again give it a few 4-5 days with salt , water changes, stress coat and see....if he really getting worse . Again if he biting them every day or on regular basis it nothing you can do . You can't treat him with medications or salt all the time. We need to make sure it don't get worse which is the only way -stop biting or keep water super clean. So give it a time..see how he doing. You can always start him on the medications , any day....but i don't know i think IT NOT the time yet.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

He also can be just constipated. When is last time you saw his poo? It just make me think worse because you didn't overfeed him and he is bloated for a few days with fasting, and he refusing to eat.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Huh? He is not constipated or refusing to eat....

*I went out for eight hours to take my daughter to school and go to the dentist* (whenever we leave for more than a couple hours, we come home to worsened rot and/or biting, but not when we sleep for 12 hours straight interestingly, just when we go out...) *and now a quarter inch by quarter inch square section of his tail turned from blue to charcoal gray. If it follows the pattern of the last two times, it will then turn black and fall off. There are no bite marks. If this isn't fin rot, then what could it be?*

I will try to take and post pictures of this new damage tomorrow if it hasn't fallen off yet. That is why I asked: *When a fish has a blow out from flaring too hard, does the tattered part of the fin turn gray then black and fall off, or will it heal?* (But nobody answered my question...)


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

Well usually bettas fins regenerate if that's what you want to know but about the way he's loosing his fins I've never seen something like that my first betta was a veil tale and he got some kind of disease that his fins turned twisted and started to look grey but they never fell off now dragon my little double tail halfmoon has been biting his tail I thought it was fib rot too but when I looked closely I could see the u shape on his fins at the moment he stills biting himself so my only option is clean water even where they started to regrowth he's been biting he's active and eating I think his fins where kind of heavy for him to swim I couldn't post a pic in here but here's the threat that I started you could see how it's bee changing

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=207882&page=4


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## carlos puron (Jun 9, 2013)

I just saw the pics that looks just like his fins he bites a spot and the little pieces around the bite turn black and fall that's what's been happening to my dragon and that's how I confused it with fin rot


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Today there were no new bites on his tail, but an unbitten square turned gray with itsy bitsy tiny holes throughout. Also, I have never seen any bite marks on his dorsal, but the points at the very tips all turned black and fell off. I really wish that he didn't move so quickly and I could get clear photos that better depict the situation.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

In any case I just got his 3 gallon tank, so perhaps a new, larger environment with more soft places to hide might help when I set it up tomorrow...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

ANHEL123 said:


> He also can be just constipated. When is last time you saw his poo? It just make me think worse because you didn't overfeed him and he is bloated for a few days with fasting, and he refusing to eat.


I am very sorry for this post. It meant for another thread. I guess i messed up. I had like 4 opened windows with four different threads that i was helping. So sorry i guess i didn't reply in the other thread.

Good luck with new tank, may be he will comedown a little.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

Latest fin picture now that he is in the new tank. Looked like he was starting to re-grown until we went out yesterday and this is how it looked when we came home. I ordered a betta log and some vita chem and will probably get some floating glass ornaments for him to amuse himself with while we're out. Also seeing some rot again at the tip of his dorsal, but he doesn't bite than fin just the caudal.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't see rot on any fins, only biting. And i read someone wrote that it is possible that betta can bite even dorsal fins. I have no idea how but yes someone who is on the forum long time wrote that it is possible. 
You set up new tank, did you move it to new place or it at the same place the old one was? The reason i ask may be try to move it ,may be it will help, more toys you can even try to put outside of the tank?
Btw he not looking bloated any more . Just be careful with those freeze dried bw as they can be cause of the bloating. You can feed with it abot 2-3 times a week as a snack.


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't use freeze dried bloodworms, only frozen. The bloating has definitely subsided. I'll post the pic below of him christening his new tank and clean water with a super-sized gigantical mega poop. I am not sure if there is anywhere I can move the tank to. It is currently in the kitchen meaning that I can no longer use my stove or toaster because of heat and also because all of the supplies are spread across the stovetop! Is that considered going on a diet or what?!


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## jona31 (May 19, 2013)

take a pic of the aquarium


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## HeadlessLegoMom (Jun 30, 2013)




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