# Sticky  Nitrogen cycle-Betta specific



## Oldfishlady

Establishing the nitrogen cycle doesn't have to be something to fear or be overly complicated.

The filtered tank will cycle without you doing anything, however, since the process takes time to complete- if you don't make water changes the high levels of ammonia and nitrite can kill the Betta..._But wait_-you are going to make water changes anyway....RIGHT.....
So, you have been cycling your filtered tank with your Betta this whole time and didn't know it...._See how easy that was......_

Establishing the nitrogen cycle for the Betta in _1gal-10gal filtered tank_ can be safely completed with a _healthy Betta_ with or without testing products.....provided that you make the needed water changes......

No matter what container you have your Betta in...You will need to make water changes due to the byproducts produced.....
The difference when cycling is that you are growing beneficial bacteria that can help keep the water safer with limited water changes once established.

Since the filtered tank is a _closed system_-you still have to make water changes. 
Nothing leaves the tank until you remove it manually with the water change, however, once the nitrogen cycle is established-the *BB* can convert the most harmful byproduct (_ammonia_) to a less harmful byproduct(_nitrate_).....

You don't want to base water change needs on water test alone-due to the DOC's (_dissolved organic compounds_) that can be harmful when they buildup to high levels.

You can establish the nitrogen cycle in 1-4gal filtered tanks, however, due to limited surface area the cycle might not be stable and twice weekly water change will be needed to maintain water quality.

You don't have to have _water test kit_ on hand to safely establish the nitrogen cycle for the _Fish-in_ cycle method with a single Betta in a small filtered tank, however, having one can take the guess work out of the game...Plus, its a good idea to know how to properly run water prams test, understand what they mean, how they interact, what to do with test results and its really good overall to have this knowledge base for fish keeping in general and you can look cool and impress your friends....

Sadly, due to the cost of a freshwater master test kit-sometimes we can't always afford one and this is when you can take your water to the pet shop for a Free test-Just always get numbers-don't accept "Fine" or "Okay" and find out what type of test product they used too-watch them do it if you can.....


*Understanding the beneficial bacteria:*
The beneficial bacteria (*BB*) you are colonizing for the nitrogen cycle are self limiting. What this means-you can only grow a colony large enough based on-
*Food source*-byproducts from anything organic-like the Betta, fish food, live plants, shrimp, snails...etc.... 
*Oxygen*-when the water flow from the filter disrupts the surface you have gas exchange 
*Surface area*-all areas inside the tank-like the walls, decorations, plants-both real and fake, in the top layer of the substrate and in the filter media.

The *BB* are sticky and adhere to all the surface areas within the tank-very little are in the water column itself.

The *BB* are alive..and many things can kill or slow the *BB *growth/colonizing. 
Like dehydration, suffocation, chlorine/chloramines and some medications
If the *BB* dry up they die 
If they are buried in mulm/debris that limits access to dissolved oxygen they can suffocate.
If the filter is turned off longer than 6 hours the *BB* will start to die
Both chlorine and chloramine will kill the *BB*
Many different medications will kill the *BB*
With pH 6 and less the *BB* can't colonize

It is important to vacuum the substrate in all areas that can be reached without moving anything or disruption of plant roots- at least weekly to keep the mulm/debris from suffocating the *BB*
It is important to rinse/swish the filter media in old tank water or fresh dechlorinated water a couple of times a month to maintain good water flow to the *BB*. _The filter media should look dirty-this is normal and good.
_ 

The _fishless cycle_ is intended for community tanks-this method was developed so that you could safely fully stock large tanks. Since we are only stocking our smaller filtered tanks with a single Betta and maybe some shrimp and/or snails. The _Fishless method_ isn't always needed.

*The Process:*

Once you setup your tank and properly acclimate the Betta. 

Your _first_ water change should start on or about _day 3 and _schedule the second weekly from that point...._._

In a *1gal-4gal* filtered tank-_without_ live plants:
Water changes of twice weekly 50%...1-50% water _only_ and 1-50% to include the substrate by vacuum or stir and dip method.
Filter media needs swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of time a month
_***The long term care and established cycle care will be the same on 1-4gal filtered tanks.
_ 
In *5gal-10gal* filtered _without_ live plants:
Water changes of twice weekly for the next _4-6 weeks_
Of... 1-50% water _only_ and 1-50% with vacuum in all areas you can reach without moving anything or disruption of plant roots. _
***The 50% with vacuum will be the water change schedule for the life of the system to maintain water quality once the nitrogen cycle has established.
_Filter media needs swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of time a month

***If you have _water test kit_-base the _water only_ change on: ammonia, nitrite 0.25ppm or greater.
With a low bioload often you don't need the second water only-I always recommend it when you _don't_ have test kit to err on the side of caution..._its the safety net._...

_Live plants_ can change the cycling process as well, however, you have to have enough of the right species of plants that are actively growing. 
Not all plants can use enough of the byproducts fast enough to help keep the water safe for the Betta.

Using lots of fast growing stem plants and floating plant you will have a silent cycle. The active plant growth can use the ammonia before conversion and it can take a long time if ever to see the nitrate reading we look for to tell us cycling stages/completeness.

With enough of the right species plants that are in active growth can also decrease water change needs in _1-4gal filtered tanks _to 50% weekly.

***Remember-some additives can change or skew water prams results-
Like some dechlorinator products can change ammonia to ammonium so its not harmful to the Betta-but, live plants and *BB* can still use it as a food source to colonize.
Some plant foods can cause false readings in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
Its not uncommon to have ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the source water
When using test kits-they test at a _ppm_ level (_parts per million_) so you will always have some ammonia in the water at very low levels that can be used by the beneficial bacteria.

Once the nitrogen cycle has established your water prams should read:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm ideally...You want to keep this under 40ppm
pH-can vary- Betta can adapt to most source water pH without issue and use of chemical to altar the pH should be avoided-_except in rare cases......_


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## Destinystar

Thanks so much OFL for posting this. We had a power outage here when a terrible storm came though and my power was out for 28 hours so I lost my good BB so now I am doing a fish in cycle on my 5 gallon tank. You make it sound so much easier and I am trying not to be to scared , I have the API Master Test Kit and checking levels everyday. I have 0 readings on Nitrite and Nitrate but with Ammonia its around 0.25 and I have been doing more water changes then you say to do like 3 50 percent a week and 1 25 percent per week so should I cut back on the water changes ? No live plants as of yet beside 3 small moss balls but planning on adding some Hortwot not sure that spelling is correct but anyway going to add some soon its about a 12 inch long piece. Anything else I can do to get though this cycle correctly without to much worry ? Thanks !!!!!


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## MSG

*Just because you lost power doesn't mean your bacteria are all gone*

I've unplugged my filter for well over a week and it didn't kill off my cycled filter in Emperor 400. 

I think you'll be fine. 

What type of brand/model number filter do you have & how often do you change the media in the filter?

BTW, very thorough thread OFL. Extremely easy to read & comprehend I think.


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## Destinystar

I have a Eclipse Hex 5 gallon tanks with a Bio Wheel that is where the good BB is suppose to start living same as the ones with filters the BB grows on the wheel instead. The only thing I change once a month is the filter cartridge that has the activated carbon. Have you heard of these type of tanks ? They are made by Marineland. This is my first tanks ever so its scary...lol Thanks for any help you can give me maybe I didnt lose the cycle that would be great but how would I know for sure ?

It says to never replace the bio wheel since that is where the BB lives.


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## Bettanewbie60

What about a non filtered tank? This stuff still confuses me. Buster is in a 5.5 unfiltered tank. I put some substrate and two fake plants from an established tank in there...I am on a 50% water change every other day schedule right now.


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## Destinystar

I am sure a unfiltered tank like yours needs more water changed then a filtered one so that sounds about correct to me but wait till someone comes along with more answers. You might even need one 100 percent water change a week just not sure sorry I cant be of more help I am so new at this myself.


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## Bettanewbie60

Perseusmom said:


> I am sure a unfiltered tank like yours needs more water changed then a filtered one so that sounds about correct to me but wait till someone comes along with more answers. You might even need one 100 percent water change a week just not sure sorry I cant be of more help I am so new at this myself.


Thanks..yeah, it is confusing..I do have a filter I can use. I just didn't like it in Buddy's 5g cause it vibrated the whole tank. Maybe I'll try it on the 5.5g glass tank and see if there is less vibration. My new guy is still so edgy he's not eating yet, so I don't want to play around with his tank too much..sigh. Hard to want to do the right thing, and not knowing what that is.


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## Destinystar

Yeah it sure is ! I think your right though about not playing around with the tank he is with your new guy till he starts eating and get more at ease with his new home. You might want to do a search here for how to baffle a filter, that might help with the vibration issue. Good luck and best wishes for you and the new little guy !


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## finnfinnfriend

Sticky please! Thank you OFL!

It's so nice to know that I don't have to worry about cycling with a single betta in a five gallon because it will basically take care of itself!

Just another reason to love betta fish....


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## MSG

Thanks for mentioning the biowheel system is built into the hex tank. 

I'm definitely missing those pieces, but it doesn't matter. I don't plan on using the hex tank again due to how scratched up it is. 

I used to use the decommissioned tank for collecting the siphoned water, but now I use a water cooler bottle instead. It's just more practical. Also I would recommend using the bottles with the ridges.

PM - your test results are typical of a cycled tank. There's always going to be a little bit of ammonia, but as long as it's under .50ppm, I wouldn't worry.

Just continue with the water changes as normal. I personally would replace the media every 45 days instead of a month. 

However, if you are concerned, keep an eye out on the ammonia. Write it down, or start a log for your test results. If the ammonia results goes past 2.0 or higher, then your filter may be overloaded, but don't panic. Do a 20-30% change every day till the numbers drop back down. 

As for the nonfiltered tanks. I don't like them because they're a lot more work.

I don't like to see the oil slick on top, or the bits on the bottom. That's why I'm cycling a tank now. Makes life a lot easier.


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## Bettanewbie60

Perseusmom said:


> Yeah it sure is ! I think your right though about not playing around with the tank he is with your new guy till he starts eating and get more at ease with his new home. You might want to do a search here for how to baffle a filter, that might help with the vibration issue. Good luck and best wishes for you and the new little guy !


Thanks..I decided against the filter all together...it's way too big anyway. I just put a bubble stone in there for some air flow. I need to calm down about them. I feel like I did when I had my first child lol!


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## Freyja

Wonderful post OFL! It answered what I suspected; I am activley and slowly cycling my 2.5 g tank. :-D I should get more live plants to add to my tank today from my LFS and will be getting an ammonia test kit to check water prams.


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## Oldfishlady

Since the non-filtered tanks without live plants will lack the oxygen needed for a healthy colony of BB-you don't get a stable nitrogen cycle.

With unfiltered tanks more water changes are often needed...

On 5gal unfiltered without live plants-50% weekly with 100% monthly should maintain water quality for a single Betta.

Yes, bio-wheels can help with the nitrogen cycle since this provides more surface area for the BB and when used on smaller tanks-this can sometime help with stability of the nitrogen cycle.

In unfiltered tanks with enough of the right species of live plants-they can produce the oxygen needed to support the BB colony in a Betta tank.

Unless you want to use carbon (not needed) you don't need to change out the filter media until it is falling apart-just a swish/rinse is all that is needed a couple of times a month.
If you do want to use carbon-change this per package direction since it is a short lived product that can't be recharged.


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## finnfinnfriend

So, for a 5gal unfiltered without live plants... Is that three consecutive weeks of 50% water changes and then 100% on the fourth week?


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## Oldfishlady

More or less...either way....3 weeks of 50% then 100% on the 4th week or 4 weeks of 50% with the 5th week 100%...depending on how dirty and if you over feed or if you have shrimp and/or snails...etc.....Kind of a judgement call on your part....really not a wrong way and personally I don't even feel the 100% are really needed in the sense of emptying the tank totally out-Especially, in 5gal and if you have a vacuum and can vacuum the mulm/debris out on a weekly basis...you could just do a couple of back to back 50% every 4th-5th week so you wouldn't have to remove the Betta or worry about any other livestock if you had them too.....Its just easier to explain/write on the internet 100%.....
Even in unfiltered tanks with a Betta-too clean can be as hard on them as too dirty in some regards....A Betta doesn't produce as much byproduct as you think-most of the byproduct and water quality issues are related to poor quality food and/or over feeding.....


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## finnfinnfriend

Oh okay, so if I have a five gallon tank(filtered or not) and I only feed like 4-5 high quality pellets once a day and have no shrimp or snails or anything....than it's more than likely that from the moment I get the fish, that weekly maitenance is perfectly sufficient. Am I correct?


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## dramaqueen

Excellent information.


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## Destinystar

Thank you very much MSG and OFL...this helps so much !!!! This is my first fish and tank ever so everything I can find out sure helps put me more at ease !


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## DiiQue

Fantastic guide! Breaks everything down real nicely. From reading other websites, they make it seem like rocket science almost.


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## Bettanewbie60

Oldfishlady said:


> Since the non-filtered tanks without live plants will lack the oxygen needed for a healthy colony of BB-you don't get a stable nitrogen cycle.
> 
> With unfiltered tanks more water changes are often needed...
> 
> On 5gal unfiltered without live plants-50% weekly with 100% monthly should maintain water quality for a single Betta.
> 
> Yes, bio-wheels can help with the nitrogen cycle since this provides more surface area for the BB and when used on smaller tanks-this can sometime help with stability of the nitrogen cycle.
> 
> In unfiltered tanks with enough of the right species of live plants-they can produce the oxygen needed to support the BB colony in a Betta tank.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you want to use carbon (not needed) you don't need to change out the filter media until it is falling apart-just a swish/rinse is all that is needed a couple of times a month.
> If you do want to use carbon-change this per package direction since it is a short lived product that can't be recharged.


Does a bubble stone add the needed oxygen?


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## Bettanewbie60

I managed to get the larger tetra whisper into my 5.5 with barely any vibration...sigh. I moved the bubble stone into Bella's 1g bowl, and she is loving the bubbles! I feel much better knowing that Buddy in his 5 and Buster in his are both filtered now...Thanks for the great, easy to understand post!


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## Oldfishlady

finnfinnfriend said:


> Oh okay, so if I have a five gallon tank(filtered or not) and I only feed like 4-5 high quality pellets once a day and have no shrimp or snails or anything....than it's more than likely that from the moment I get the fish, that weekly maitenance is perfectly sufficient. Am I correct?


Correct, however, small frequent meals are better for the Betta.

Bettanewbie60-
While the bubble stone will break the surface to assist with gas exchange and dissolved oxygen for the beneficial bacteria the same way a filter will....it lacks the surface area that the filter media provides for the beneficial bacteria to colonize on....


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## Bettanewbie60

Oldfishlady said:


> Correct, however, small frequent meals are better for the Betta.
> 
> Bettanewbie60-
> While the bubble stone will break the surface to assist with gas exchange and dissolved oxygen for the beneficial bacteria the same way a filter will....it lacks the surface area that the filter media provides for the beneficial bacteria to colonize on....


Thanks OFL...filter now in the 5.5 and bubble stone is in Bella's 1g. Thanks for all your help!


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## finnfinnfriend

Oldfishlady said:


> Correct, however, small frequent meals are better for the Betta.
> 
> Bettanewbie60-
> While the bubble stone will break the surface to assist with gas exchange and dissolved oxygen for the beneficial bacteria the same way a filter will....it lacks the surface area that the filter media provides for the beneficial bacteria to colonize on....


Thank you! Sorry about my over- inquisitiveness....


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## Oldfishlady

finnfinnfriend said:


> Thank you! Sorry about my over- inquisitiveness....


Inquisitiveness is a good quality and not something to be sorry about.....in my opinion.....


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## finnfinnfriend

Oldfishlady said:


> Inquisitiveness is a good quality and not something to be sorry about.....in my opinion.....


Well thank you


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## Kim

MSG said:


> PM - your test results are typical of a cycled tank. There's always going to be a little bit of ammonia, but as long as it's under .50ppm, I wouldn't worry.
> 
> Just continue with the water changes as normal. I personally would replace the media every 45 days instead of a month.
> 
> However, if you are concerned, keep an eye out on the ammonia. Write it down, or start a log for your test results. If the ammonia results goes past 2.0 or higher, then your filter may be overloaded, but don't panic. Do a 20-30% change every day till the numbers drop back down.


I'd have to disagree with that actually. While ammonia will always be present in a cycled tanks, it will be only in undetectable amounts and tests should always read 0ppm. Any ammonia that can be detected by a liquid test kit is harmful, and I would worry quite a bit if my fish were constantly in even .25 ppm of ammonia....2 ppm is a VERY high reading and not something that should ever occur in a cycled tank.


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## MSG

Kim, what kind of testing kit do you have? How often do you do ammonia test.

I'm going to bust out the rest of the kits and test them out.

See if the API gives me different results from the Doctor Wellfish Master Kit........ 

Eh... Nevermind, it's API as well.


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## Kim

I have the API liquid test kit. When cycling (I always do fishless), I test every day until about a week after the cycle has finished and I have added fish. Thereafter, I test any time I change anything in the tank or about once a month. Also, testing is always my first action if anyone gets sick or just looks "off." In all cases except when cycling, ammonia is always at 0 ppm.


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## Greylady

This is a fantastic thread for the layman! I read articles upon articles about cycling a tank until my eyes glazzed over. Most were very hard to comprehend and some even seemed to contradict themselves. Thanks so much for taking the time to write this all up OFL and thanks to the mods for stickying (is that a word? lol) it!!


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## Oldfishlady

Your welcome....

The nitrogen cycle is often made to sound much more complicated than it really needs to be-Its a natural process and as long as the BB needs are met-its going to happen on its own without you doing anything.


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## blue moon

ok so im alittle lost what water care do i need just dechlorinator and Conditioner for my uncycled tank or something else?

after i make water changes for 4-6 weeks then do i start changing the water once a week about 30 to 50 % water change ?

Do i keep the filter off until i get my fish or just leave the filter running?

after putting the dechlorinator in the water or that and something else how long do i wait until i put my fish in ?

after floating my fish for 15 to 20 min and releasing him to his new tank what signs do i watch out for if something is wrong with my new fish or how do i make sure the water is safe for him 2 be in for him in a uncycled tank i get scared to put him in a new tank because im scared he might die the secound day and after his in the tank for a day or 2 when do i start doing water changes do i wait a week or do it the same week i put him in ?


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## Oldfishlady

The only additive you need IMO/E is a good dechlorinator that cover chlorine and chloramine. These products work on contact to make the water fish safe. It is safe to add the Betta once the water has been dechlorinated after properly acclimated.

Proper acclimation-you need to properly acclimate to both the chemistry and temp with the new Betta and with 100% water changes-By adding small amount of the dechlorinated tank water to their holding container over 15-20min or to tolerance. Then net the Betta and add to the tank....
_You don't want to add any of the pet shop water to the tank..._

The beneficial bacteria need oxygen and without a filter to help with the gas exchange your dissolved oxygen will be limited as well as the food source supply to the BB since it has to go to them by way of water movement...
You need to keep the filter running all the time-except for the time that it is off for the water changes.

Once the nitrogen cycle is established-Weekly 50% with vacuum in a 5gal filtered tank to maintain water quality.

Do you have a test kit?


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## blue moon

no i do not all i have is a heater, a light, a hood, gravel, water with Conditioner for 3 to 4 days, a filter ( been filtering since i got it), silk fake plants.

so to complete my tank i just need dechlorinator and to wait a day so it can be filter in my tank then i can put my betta in my tank the proper way ?

after do 2x changes a week ( 1- 50% and 1- 90%) for 4 to 6 weeks then do 1 change every week ?

and that it i don't have to put any ammonia or get any testing kit sorry if i am wrong i just what to know for my knowledge and to be a better mom for my betta


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## OrangeAugust

I didn't cycle my 5 gallon before I put my fish in it less than a week ago. I already did two 50% water changes- two days after I first put him in, and then again 2.5 days later. The first water change was when the ammonia was between .25 and .50. Last night when I checked the water the ammonia was higher than 0 but not quite .25, so I did a 50% WC this morning including vacuuming the gravel. What amount of ammonia is too much? Should I change the water when the ammonia is at .25 or should I change it every other day no matter what.

I'm going on vacation next week- leaving on Wednesday morning and coming back Saturday night. So I will do a 75% water change on Wednesday morning before I leave... but will the water be okay until Saturday night or would that get dangerous without the tank being cycled? Because normally on the current schedule I'd change it on Wednesday morning, then if I was home I would probably change it again Friday evening... but I won't get back until the next night. Will that be ok?

Thanks!


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## Atena

What are the best plants to provide the oxigen needed?

I have a planted tank, it is small, only 2.5 gallons, and I have a filter but it is very low flow and does not agitate the water surface because my fish stops eating altogether if the surface is not still. 

I have a pretty stable cycle established, but now i m worried it will collapse.

I have two Java ferns and dwarf hairgrass on most of the bottom. I just got some water wisteria to add but it will be in quarantine for a few more days before I can put it in.

With the grass I had to add a plant light and add a liquid CO2 additive daily and aquarium plant fertilizer with every water change.

I also have a moss ball, but I am not sure I like it and I might get rid of it.

What is a good amount of plants to keep in a 2.5 gallon to up the oxygen?


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## Oldfishlady

As long as the plants are in active growth and the tank isn't overstocked the plants will create oxygen the system needs as well as use up any byproducts produced by anything organic in the tank.


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## Atena

Do you mean overstocked with fish or plants?

My betta Guppy is an only fish, he has no companions and I don't think he wants any. he seems very happy. He is enjoying the less frequent water changes. I noticed he is starting to bite his tail whenever I do a water change so I am trying to keep it to a minimum to reduce stress, but still keep him healthy. I think more plants will help that process.

I am also considering a bubbler but i am not sure this will help either.

Can you over-plant?


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## Oldfishlady

I wouldn't add a bubbler since that could drive off too much CO2 that is naturally in the tank for the plants.

With a single Betta in a 2.5gal tank with light filtration from a gentle flow filter, live active growing plants with maybe a few shrimp and/or snails....You don't need to worry about the dissolved oxygen levels in the tank.

I would recommend 50% weekly at most water changes-provided that the plants are thriving and no you can't over plant, however, you can have so many plants that you don't have room for the Betta to swim.


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## Atena

Thank OFL, I am glad I don't need the bubbler.

I don't have shrimp or snalils, should I consider getting some and what do they do for the tank?


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## wombatgirl

I had a question on this (thanks so much for this BTW)



Oldfishlady said:


> In a *1gal-4gal* filtered tank-_without_ live plants:
> Water changes of twice weekly 50%...1-50% water _only_ and 1-50% to include the substrate by vacuum or stir and dip method.
> Filter media needs swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of time a month
> _***The long term care and established cycle care will be the same on 1-4gal filtered tanks.
> _


What do the two types of water change do? What difference do the water only change and the substrate vacuum have on the chemistry of the water? 

I'm trying to get the whole cycling thing down, and just really read this post and noticed the difference. I tend to vacuum every time I do a water change - is that removing too much stuff to get the cycle started?

Thanks so much for any explanations!


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## Oldfishlady

wombatgirl said:


> I'm trying to get the whole cycling thing down, and just really read this post and noticed the difference. I tend to vacuum every time I do a water change - is that removing too much stuff to get the cycle started?
> 
> Thanks so much for any explanations!


A lot of the beneficial bacteria are in the substrate and you only need to vacuum in all areas you can reach without moving anything one time a week...You can vacuuming half- twice a week will also be fine or a 1/3- 3 times a week...etc....
Sometimes its a bit of a balance with low stocking levels and/or small tanks....You don't want to remove too much BB at one time and cause a spike or leave too much mulm/debris that will suffocate or limit food delivery to the BB....Its all about balance....

The information I provide is just general guidelines or starting point for you-Aquariums are rarely the same and we will need to tweak things as we go to maintain that balance.....


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## sunlight

Very good explanation on cycling thank you! I will keep this link for other people. Or if I will ever decide to do it. I don’t cycle my 3 gall and 5 gall because it pain for me to clean filter and do gravel vacuuming. I just do 100% and 50% water changes a week for all my tanks with betta acclimation. Sometimes I do just 100% water changes only .
I have 4 betta . Look like they all healthy for almost 3 years now.


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## labloverl

I'm trying to cycle my 5 gallon, but I have no clue what I'm doing. I've read all the stickies, but it is still confusing. The filter I have in my 5 gallon ran in my cycled 10 gallon for about 3 days (not long enough, I know) and I have some gravel from the 10 gallon sitting by the filter intake. I also tore some of the cartridge off the one in the 10 gallon and put it in the filter in the 5 gallon. There is no ammonia source though. There are no fish in it. Do I put fish food in? How much? How often should I test the water? Do I change the water? How much?


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## Goldie2nd

This helps me out soo much thank you I can put my betta in there in a week or so. Because I want to make sure his new 10 gallon tank is clean and healthy for him to go in!


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## logisticsguy

I'm sure this question has been asked before but what is the general opinion on air powered sponge filters with betta? Im thinking of going with only sponge filters like this. I'm new and trying to learn as much as possible.


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## ao

labloverl said:


> I'm trying to cycle my 5 gallon, but I have no clue what I'm doing. I've read all the stickies, but it is still confusing. The filter I have in my 5 gallon ran in my cycled 10 gallon for about 3 days (not long enough, I know) and I have some gravel from the 10 gallon sitting by the filter intake. I also tore some of the cartridge off the one in the 10 gallon and put it in the filter in the 5 gallon. There is no ammonia source though. There are no fish in it. Do I put fish food in? How much? How often should I test the water? Do I change the water? How much?


you need an ammonia source, or whatever BB you have obtained on your new filter will die of starvation. it's fine to do a fish in cycle. do make sure to test the water frequently. and make water changes as necessary


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## Aquabreeze

Is it possible to cycle a 1 gal unfiltered bowl, with no live plants?


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## Wendyjo

aokashi said:


> you need an ammonia source, or whatever BB you have obtained on your new filter will die of starvation. it's fine to do a fish in cycle. do make sure to test the water frequently. and make water changes as necessary


It's always best to do a fishless cycle when possible - ANY detectable amount of ammonia is harmful. I realize that sometimes people get in a situation where they have no choice but to do a cycle using fish, but I see no reason to encourage this outdated practice, especially with a betta.


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## Wendyjo

Aquabreeze said:


> Is it possible to cycle a 1 gal unfiltered bowl, with no live plants?


No, not really.


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## carbonxxkidd

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked, I will admit I did not read this entire thread. I am cycling a 5 gallon tank that was set up on Sunday. I just did a 30% water change today - water only. My question is, should I wait to vacuum the gravel until my tank is fully cycled or is it okay to go ahead and do that with every water change?

I'm also not sure if I should wait until I am getting ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings to do water changes? I used the strips to test today (that's all I have) and everything came back 0...but I did a water change anyway because I figured the fish would like it.

Edit:

Nevermind, I just read the original posting and all of my questions were answered. LOL. Sorry, and thanks OFL for the info


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## Oldfishlady

Wendyjo said:


> It's always best to do a fishless cycle when possible - ANY detectable amount of ammonia is harmful. I realize that sometimes people get in a situation where they have no choice but to do a cycle using fish, but I see no reason to encourage this outdated practice, especially with a betta.


No matter what you have your Betta in....It will produce byproducts and water changes will be needed. The hobby grade test products only test at a PPM level and so you will always have some level of Ammonia in the system.
Fish in general have natural protection from the slime coat and can tolerate much higher levels of ammonia than given credit.
The amount of ammonia exposed during the cycling process shouldn't be anymore than what they are exposed to on a regular bases between water changes and/or the time line of the BB consuming it.

The only difference in cycling and not...is the bacteria you are colonizing. Its a natural process that occurs in a tank when the bacteria needs are met. These bacteria are self limiting to the-food source, oxygen and surface area. By understanding the bacteria involved in the cycling process-will help you understand how cycling with a Betta can be safe.

With that said, it is best to fish-less cycle for community tanks-due to the limiting factors of the BB.


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## finnfinnfriend

What if there is ammonia in the tap water?


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## LittleBettaFish

You can use a water conditioner like Seachem Prime, which will detoxify the ammonia. If your tank is cycled, your bacteria should be able to use the now detoxified ammonia. 

I'm not sure what you would do if not, as I believe Seachem only binds ammonia for around a 24-48 hour or so period. After that I don't know what happens as to whether you would then have toxic ammonia floating around in your tank.


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## finnfinnfriend

That's why I was asking in this thread. Because I wanted to know what to do if you are cycling and have ammonia in your tap water.


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## Oldfishlady

Depending on the ammonia level of the source water-Prime will neutralize the ammonia and then the BB will take care of the ammonium just like it will ammonia. Depending on the starting ammonia level, how mature the tank...etc.... you may need to add the ammonia neutralizer to the tank every 48h until the BB can take care of it.


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## ChoclateBetta

I have heard of bettas living years in ammonia. Would not surprise me if they can survive using fish for cycling. I have done it twice but never want to do it again.


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## Wendyjo

Oldfishlady said:


> No matter what you have your Betta in....It will produce byproducts and water changes will be needed. The hobby grade test products only test at a PPM level and so you will always have some level of Ammonia in the system.
> Fish in general have natural protection from the slime coat and can tolerate much higher levels of ammonia than given credit.
> The amount of ammonia exposed during the cycling process shouldn't be anymore than what they are exposed to on a regular bases between water changes and/or the time line of the BB consuming it.
> 
> The only difference in cycling and not...is the bacteria you are colonizing. Its a natural process that occurs in a tank when the bacteria needs are met. These bacteria are self limiting to the-food source, oxygen and surface area. By understanding the bacteria involved in the cycling process-will help you understand how cycling with a Betta can be safe.
> 
> With that said, it is best to fish-less cycle for community tanks-due to the limiting factors of the BB


I understand exactly how the nitrogen cycle works - I've cycled quite a few tanks over my lifetime, both large and small. And I agree with you that there will always be trace amounts of ammonia in the tank. But I stand by what I said regarding exposing the fish, especially a betta, to the amount of ammonia that can be detected by a standard Nessler test AND exposing it to nitrite. Using Prime helps, but unless a more sophisticated test system is used (and they are available for around the same price as a Nessler test), there is no way for the average hobbyist doing a cycle for the first time to understand how much of that total ammonia reading is harmful and how much isn't, especially when you throw Ph into the mix. And as far as I know, all nitrite is harmful.

It's well established that exposure to toxic ammonia as well as nitrite can cause stress and both short term and long term health issues in fish. And with their long, flowing fins, bettas are especially susceptible to problems such as fin rot which is often a direct result of poor water quality and stress. For this reason I just don't see a reason to encourage fish-in cycles when fishless cycles are so easy to do (especially these days when there are products available that contain the correct species of bacteria to get the job done quickly) during which time the betta can be safely housed in another container getting frequent water changes to keep the ammonia at 0 and keep nitrite completely out of the equation.


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## ChoclateBetta

They can detect it if you check an ammonia there is a safe range on it.


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## ChoclateBetta

Wendyjo said:


> I understand exactly how the nitrogen cycle works - I've cycled quite a few tanks over my lifetime, both large and small. And I agree with you that there will always be trace amounts of ammonia in the tank. But I stand by what I said regarding exposing the fish, especially a betta, to the amount of ammonia that can be detected by a standard Nessler test AND exposing it to nitrite. Using Prime helps, but unless a more sophisticated test system is used (and they are available for around the same price as a Nessler test), there is no way for the average hobbyist doing a cycle for the first time to understand how much of that total ammonia reading is harmful and how much isn't, especially when you throw Ph into the mix. And as far as I know, all nitrite is harmful.
> 
> It's well established that exposure to toxic ammonia as well as nitrite can cause stress and both short term and long term health issues in fish. And with their long, flowing fins, bettas are especially susceptible to problems such as fin rot which is often a direct result of poor water quality and stress. For this reason I just don't see a reason to encourage fish-in cycles when fishless cycles are so easy to do (especially these days when there are products available that contain the correct species of bacteria to get the job done quickly) during which time the betta can be safely housed in another container getting frequent water changes to keep the ammonia at 0 and keep nitrite completely out of the equation.


But in very tiny amounts it is safe. Nitrate is toxic to fish in large amounts.


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## Wendyjo

Chocolate I was not talking about nitrate at all, just ammonia and nitrite. Nitrite is not really safe in any amount, especially if the fish is exposed to it for weeks at a time when cycling, although the addition of aquarium salt will help keep the nitrite from entering the fishes bloodstream.


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## finnfinnfriend

Oldfishlady said:


> Depending on the ammonia level of the source water-Prime will neutralize the ammonia and then the BB will take care of the ammonium just like it will ammonia. Depending on the starting ammonia level, how mature the tank...etc.... you may need to add the ammonia neutralizer to the tank every 48h until the BB can take care of it.


If the tank had just been set up, would you recommend dosing with prime every 48h until the tank is cycled? Or can the betta handle the ammonia until the tank is cycled?(say theres about .25ppm in the tap water, for example).


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## ChoclateBetta

Wendyjo said:


> Chocolate I was not talking about nitrate at all, just ammonia and nitrite. Nitrite is not really safe in any amount, especially if the fish is exposed to it for weeks at a time when cycling, although the addition of aquarium salt will help keep the nitrite from entering the fishes bloodstream.


Both ammonia and nitites are safe in very small amounts.


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## ChoclateBetta

When was the last time yu saw an ammonia test with zero.


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## finnfinnfriend

Can we please stop arguing about whether a fish in cycle is okay or not and leave this thread for questions about the original subject? Thanks guys.


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## n3wport

Crazy question, I am planning on doing a betta-fishless cycle, with no live plants. Once I understood the process fully, I started over thinking (danger alert) and realized, once I have all my beneficial bacteria established in my FIVE gallon tank, my betta fish's ammonia out-put wont be enough to sustain the bacteria and it will starve/die/vanish... though making my tank regress into another cycle? Would that happen?


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## LittleBettaFish

That is the whole point of doing a fishless cycle. Ideally you should have enough bacteria present to cope with the bioload of a fully stocked tank. That is why the aim is usually to get the bacteria fully processing around 5ppm of ammonia in 24 hours. 

Because you are only stocking the 5 gallon with a single betta, you may 
initially have some die back of bacteria as it adjusts accordingly to the bioload of your fish. 

However, if you monitor your parameters and keep an eye on things it shouldn't be enough to cause another cycle. A mini-cycle perhaps, but I wouldn't expect it to suddenly start causing a massive spike in your ammonia or nitrites.


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## ChoclateBetta

You can use stuff from established tanks.


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## Artist with a betta

I have a ten gallon unfiltered with about 5 almost sprouted hybrid aponogeton plants and as tight of a budget I'm on I don't have the money for a mater test kit. should I just do the two 50% changes and once it's filtered the one 50% change?


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## Oldfishlady

Artist with a betta said:


> I have a ten gallon unfiltered with about 5 almost sprouted hybrid aponogeton plants and as tight of a budget I'm on I don't have the money for a mater test kit. should I just do the two 50% changes and once it's filtered the one 50% change?


Depending on stocking level and how well the apons are doing-you may only need to make 1-50% weekly on the 10gal unfiltered tank-If its stocked with only a Betta along with 5 active growing apons-the plants should produce enough oxygen to support any BB that colonizes to help with any water quality issues.


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## Artist with a betta

Oldfishlady said:


> Depending on stocking level and how well the apons are doing-you may only need to make 1-50% weekly on the 10gal unfiltered tank-If its stocked with only a Betta along with 5 active growing apons-the plants should produce enough oxygen to support any BB that colonizes to help with any water quality issues.


I've only got Vinny in there but I'm thinking about a snail and so far all the apons are doing great.


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## lf0210

Thanks for this info!!!!!!!


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## katmandew

I thoroughly cleaned my tank and decorations yesterday and about 8 hours ago I refilled it and added a couple drops of ammonia to start a fishless cycle. Referring back to my original post on here, this is my first tank and due to some misinformation by Petsmart my first Betta died in three days  From the good people on here I learned to cycle my tank first and to purchase the API Mater test kit. I just did the tests just to see and I'm wondering how can my results be so good? Am I testing to early? should I have waited 24 hours? It looks like the ammonia is on the .25 side, PH test was 7.6, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?


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## Oldfishlady

katmandew-why don't you start a new thread on your fishless cycle if you haven't already and add-Tank size, substrate, additives used, type of filter, live plants-if any and if you do plan on live plants-include light info and number/species of plants and finial stocking plan. 
Date started, ammonia source, type of testing products and a base line water prams on your source water-with and without the normal additives you use.

I will watch for your new thread....


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## shawnee

thought i could be sim ple


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## shawnee

dont most people know that it is the key


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## Kbud

thank you so much! I suddenly don't feel totally in the dark about caring for my betta in his planted 1 gallon tank. Which plants do you recommend to neutralize/convert ammonia. I need them to be effective in my tank!


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## Oldfishlady

Stem plants and floating plants are great for smaller tanks-they are big eater and grow fast to help with water quality issues-as well as easy to keep small enough by trimming.

Your lights are what will determine how well they will do.


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## Kbud

Thanks! Beautiful avatar by the way...


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## BettaGurl79

Thanks for making a cycling tank less scary. I was giving myself a slight case of anxiety before reading this thread.


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## Kbud

Same here... I was completely freaking out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## katmandew

I get the same way but I am determined to do things the right. I lost my first fish in three days due to lack of knowledge and very poor information from Petsmart. I'm so happy I found this site, it's been very helpful! Seeing just the slight changes while cycling makes me happy and excited! This is one of the first times I've used what little patience I have lol!!


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## BettaGurl79

katmandew said:


> I get the same way but I am determined to do things the right. I lost my first fish in three days due to lack of knowledge and very poor information from Petsmart. I'm so happy I found this site, it's been very helpful! Seeing just the slight changes while cycling makes me happy and excited! This is one of the first times I've used what little patience I have lol!!


 
I'm sorry about the loss of your first finned baby! Good luck with the fishless cycling. If I hadn't already bought flotsom I would have gone that route too! Keep us posted!


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## shootingmaggots

Quick question I did a test on my nitrate levels and they seem to be reading at a 0ppm. Is this bad? If so how could I fix this. Used the api freshwater test kit.


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## katmandew

BettaGurl79 said:


> I'm sorry about the loss of your first finned baby! Good luck with the fishless cycling. If I hadn't already bought flotsom I would have gone that route too! Keep us posted!


Thank you. So far, so good. Almost three weeks of cycling and yesterday I had a spike in the Nitrites and Nitrates but the ammonia hasn't budged. I do see the light at the end of the tunnel though


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## Oldfishlady

shootingmaggots said:


> Quick question I did a test on my nitrate levels and they seem to be reading at a 0ppm. Is this bad? If so how could I fix this. Used the api freshwater test kit.


How long has the tank been setup, tank size, number of livestock, number and species of live plants, if any, water temp, type of filter and filter media care, how much and how often on the water changes and additives used.

With the API nitrate test-be sure and shake, bang on the table and shake some more on the #2 reagent-it tend to settle and can give false results-Also, follow the time line on shaking between drops and reading results to the "T" to avoid user error.


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## katmandew

Help please...

As I get closer to the end of cycling my 5 gallon tank I want to make sure I’m doing this right. I’ll try not to be long winded but please let me know if the following are the steps I should follow.

Once the ammonia disappears within 24 hours and the testing reads:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates <20
My PH has remained steady at 7.6 (Is this too high for a Betta?)

Do a 50% water change
Rinse filter pad in used water
I’m replacing the carbon with a sponge, rinse in used water
Treat the new water with Prime using enough to condition the whole tank (1/2 mL)
Let it run overnight and test, if everything is good I can then add a Betta

Adding a Betta
Pour out 10% of the water in the cup and add in tank water, wait 5 minutes
Pour out 25% of the water, add in tank water, wait 5 minutes
Pour out 50% of the water, add in tank water, wait 5 minutes
Fish is ready to be placed in the tank. Do I put the fish in with the water in the cup or just net the fish and put it in?

Weekly 25% water changes with gravel vacuuming
Monthly rinsing of the filter media in used water
Please let me know if all the above steps are correct. One other thing, even though I have my filter baffled with a plastic bottle there is still enough current on top to move food around. Is it safe to turn off the filter when I feed the fish? I have bio-gold pellets and freeze dried bloodworms for a snack. Any help is appreciated


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## Oldfishlady

Since this is a Betta specific *Fish-In* cycle methods sticky-I need for you to start a new thread-I will watch for the new thread...and along with the other members-I will be happy to help answer questions.

I would like to keep this sticky for _Fish in cycle questions-Betta specific..._

Thank you...


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## katmandew

Oldfishlady said:


> Since this is a Betta specific *Fish-In* cycle methods sticky-I need for you to start a new thread-I will watch for the new thread...and along with the other members-I will be happy to help answer questions.
> 
> I would like to keep this sticky for _Fish in cycle questions-Betta specific..._
> 
> Thank you...


I did start a cycling thread a week or so ago and I posted this same same on there a couple days ago but didn't get an answer. Sorry I was just trying to get some information  will be more careful where I post things.


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## Chevko

I just had a totally random thought while reading this over again... Could one simply "jump start" a cycle process by bringing in water from a tank that's already been set up?


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## Oldfishlady

Chevko said:


> I just had a totally random thought while reading this over again... Could one simply "jump start" a cycle process by bringing in water from a tank that's already been set up?


Very little of the beneficial bacteria are in the water column itself due to them being sticky and adhere to all the surface areas.


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## Sparrowhawk

First of all, just want to say thank you for yet another extremely informative thread!

I'm currently doing a fish-in cycle on two tanks (and a fishless in a third, but anyway)... I was just wondering if you had any recommendations for stem plants to help with water quality for a 3.9 gallon tank that has low lighting (with the intention of upgrading lighting eventually)? 

I currently have water sprite and duckweed floating - just added the duckweed but the water sprite has grown considerably since I first got it - but am interested in stem plants too, as I don't want to block off all light to the rest of the plants with floaters. My substrate is only gravel, so would stem plants even grow in that environment? I do dose Flourish with water changes if that changes how they'll grow.

Thank you so much!


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## Oldfishlady

Most stem plant will do fine in gravel...Lower light stem plants that are big feeders and fast grower -naja grass, most of the hygrophilias like westeria, but if you don't have the right color temp light they may drop leaves and/or not do too well, however, a bit of indirect sunlight can help until you get the proper lights.


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## Sparrowhawk

Awesome, thank you so much for the info!


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## keeley146

I would love to get some advice too.  I am trying for a fish in cycle. Here is my info. 

5 gallon filtered tank w/ heater at about 78 degrees
I have 2 elodia plants, a java fern and one other plant I'm not sure what it is. 
I did put some ATM Colony in the tank to help jump start my cycle. Water prams on day one, testing with API master test kit:

7.4 ph
ammonia: .25ppm
nitrites: 0 
nitrates: 0

What I would like help with is figuring out how often/how much for water changes since I do have live plants in a filtered 5 gallon tank. Also, when i do a water change would it be helpful for me to add more of the Colony to the water? Thank you for your advice!


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## Oldfishlady

What is the ATM....not sure I know what that is.

How many days has the tank been running-what kind of filter, other additives used, how are the plants doing so far, what kind of lights do you have-age of bulbs, kelvin, watts and photoperiod-To understand-the only livestock is a single Betta...correct...

What are the base line results on your source water-Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH- both with and without additives. What is the source water-well water, city tap water and do you have a water softener unit hooked up to the house and if so, can you bypass it if it is the type that uses salt.


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## keeley146

ATM colony was the brand of bacteria I used. http://reviews.petco.com/3554/11877...water-aquarium-supplement-reviews/reviews.htm 

We have had the tank for about 3 weeks but the last fish we had died so we just emptied this one and cleaned it out really well a couple days ago. I use Stresscoat for my water conditioner. So far the plants are very healthy, but they are new. The lighting is a 15w incandescent light bulb in the light hood. The bulb is only 3 weeks old, but hasn't been used much until now.

Water: Source is city tap water. The water baseline info is ph 7.0 ammonia .25, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. It is the same baseline with the stresscoat in it. Afert adding the atm colony to the water the ph was 7.4, ammonia was 0 or close to it, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. We don't have a water softener for our house.


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## Oldfishlady

Its not uncommon to see pH changes as the water naturally gasses off-Its a gradual change and usually will not cause any problems for Betta.

Do you know the color temp on the bulb-or kelvin-the color temp is what is important for plant growth.

Since you have ammonia in the source water to start-you might need to look into a dechlorinator that has an ammonia neutralizer in it-like Prime-Once the beneficial bacteria get established it should take care of the ammonia in the source water-as well as the active plant growth, however, a few plants usually will not help that much-but they will help some-especially once they get established and start actively growing.

Right now-I would get some Prime or product like it and make weekly water changes of 50% with vacuum in all places you can reach without moving anything or disruption of plant roots-Its hard to advise on a second water only due to the ammonia in the source water to start-otherwise I would recommend a second one based on water pram results until you see nitrate. I would base the need of a second water only change on the fish behavior.

Personally, I feel the cycle starter products are a waste of time and money, however, I don't think they hurt anything either.


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## keeley146

Ok thanks! I will continue to check his water daily and keep an eye on him. For now, he seems to love his new home and has just been exploring everything in it.


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## keeley146

Once the cycle has been established, would you continue with the once weekly 50% changes w/ vacume?


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## Oldfishlady

Correct-5gal filtered with a few live plants-once the nitrogen cycle has established-50% weekly with light vacuum should maintain water quality.


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## Kbud

@oldfishlady - I like your profile pic! Is that your fish?


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## Oldfishlady

Kbud said:


> @oldfishlady - I like your profile pic! Is that your fish?


Thank you and yes, one that I spawned and he has since spawned and his offspring have spawned-This summer those will go outside to spawn.


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## heavenlolwut

Hi there!
So I've skimmed through most of it and I'm not sure if there has been an answer to this question but i'm currently in the process of setting up my first 10 gallon tank. It is a aqueon 10 gallon kit, the one with the filter. And I'm not 100 percent sure of what I'm doing.

1. Is it safe to put fish in the tank while it's cycling as long as I do the 50% water changed the two times a week? (When is it safe to put them in, I'm going to divide the tank, I want to put it in asap because One has a heater tht doesn't work great and the other has a heater that works better than the other but not quite the best)
2. I also got a water testing kit the other day, what numbers should I be looking for in the kit? it's a liquid one. 
3. I was reading things about something with oxygen and the tank. Should I get something to help along with that? It's not going to be a planted tank.


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## Oldfishlady

If the stocking is just going to be-2 healthy adult Betta in a divided 10gal filtered tank-without live plants...
IMO/E-you can safely establish the nitrogen cycle with the 2 Betta-Provided that you make the needed water changes.

Since you have a test kit on hand-this will take the guess work out.

Once you acclimate them to the tank-monitor water prams daily and make a 50% water ONLY change based on test results of-Ammonia, nitrite 0.25ppm or greater. This water change is over and above your regular weekly 50% with vacuum that you will do for the life of the system.

But first-do base-line test for-Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH on your source water-One with and One without your normal additives you will be using-like dechlorinator.
The base-line will help tell you if your source water has anything in it that you need to be aware of. 
By testing with your dechlorinator-this will tell you if the product will cause any skewed test results that you need to account for-to avoid any unneeded water changes and stressing you out...lol....

Once you establish all your base-line numbers and aquarium-compare all these numbers-this will tell you if anything in the tank itself is causing any skewed results.

Plus by doing all these test will give you practice in using the test products.
Be sure and follow all the directions to the "T"...especially the time-lines between adding drops, number of drops and reading results to avoid user error.
If this is the API brand freshwater master test kit-Be sure and shake, bang on the table and shake some more on the #2 Nitrate reagent bottle-it tend to settle and can give false results.

It can take 3-6 weeks to establish the nitrogen cycle- You know your are cycled when test results read:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5-10ppm
pH-varies
Betta can tolerate, adjust to most pH and it is best not to change the pH using chemical additives. It is safer to maintain a stable pH then having sudden extreme changes that can often occur with chemical additives due to the rebound.

As for the oxygen-your filter should provide enough surface agitation for gas exchange to support the beneficial bacteria for your nitrogen cycle.


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## heavenlolwut

Thank you so much! That does clear up a lot!
I'm stil a little confused of when I can add the two bettas. : ] Should I give it a week or two to settle or add them soon? (after getting a base line reading for the tank)


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## Oldfishlady

Once you test the tank-all the numbers should be 0ppm-Acclimate the Bettas by adding small amounts of the tank water to their holding cup-over 10-15min more or less to tolerance-Then add them to the 10gal divided filtered tank(_try not to get any of the pet shop water in your tank_). 
Start your daily water pram test tomorrow-since you should have already done one today.

If these are brand new Bettas-you may or may not need to turn the light off and hold food for the first 24h. It depends on their behavior-If they swim about exploring and/or beg for food-leave the light on and feed a small amount. 
If they go hide-act stressed-turn off the light and hold food-it can vary from fish to fish and sometimes the water current can be an issue and you may need to slow the water flow down in the beginning or even turn it off in some cases.

If you haven't already, start a New thread with all your stats/numbers and a pic.


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## heavenlolwut

Thank you very much!
And no worries about pet shop water :]
One guy I've had for about 6months now in a 2.5 gallon and the other I got the other weke however I've been keeping him in a 1 gallon holding tank to make sure that he isn't sick or anything. :] So far so good!
Again thank you for the advice!


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## heavenlolwut

And I'll set a thread up later tonight once I finish setting up the tank. :] Just moved into a new house so I've been slowly setting it up. Just got to add water today and hook up the heater and the filter. :]


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## koincidenskis

Thank you for this thread! I am currently on Day 7 of a fishless cycle and everything seems to be going great, however I do get a little nervous because there is always a little doubt that I will mess up! 

If anything this helped me relax about the cycling. Thanks again!


----------



## MomaDragonfly

Ive had my VT Since Monday... today is day 6. I started him in a 1 gal bowl and on day three moved him to a 5 gal tank. I was advised to not let it cycle because the water temp in the 1 gal tank was more then likely to low. Room temp being 70, he was sitting on the bottom the entire second day. I put him in bag and over an hour every 10 min added the new tank water (treated with "betta h20 declorinator) Once in the new tnak and the warm water he became super active and has been making a bubble nest all day today. This is my first Betta and first tank. I know nothing about cycles and water changes... Its a little confusing at the moment. Some ppl say every couple weeks to once a month and some say every week. ... I have a Terta WhipserMico filter running and 2 live plants. I did purchase a vac but have never used one before and don't have water test kit. The water is crystal clear. He has been in the tank for 2 days today. Am I doing anything wrong? Also, I feed him Betta Bites once a day... 3-5 very small pellets. I have freeze dried blood worms also, but have only feed those once, before adding him to the new tank. Thanks!! Everyone on here is so helpful, I don't know what I would have done without finding and joining this site. Also... There is a pic of the tank in my albums is any of the setup isn't looking ideal. i still have to get a cave of somesort for him to hide in, just haven't been able to get out and do that yet. Thanks again


----------



## pop

why do bettas survive in LFS cups since the cups are not cycled nor is the water changed on a daily schedule? is ammonia less toxic for betta fish

pop


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## shellieca

pop said:


> why do bettas survive in LFS cups since the cups are not cycled nor is the water changed on a daily schedule? is ammonia less toxic for betta fish
> 
> pop


Surviving & thriving are 2 different things. Ammonia is toxic to any fish. Most of those Bettas don't stay in those cups for very long whether its because they're purchased & taken home or they die. I've pulled dead fish off the shelves more than once. Their color is usually duller than it should be, most have some sort of fin rot & almost all of them have some level of ammonia poisoning. People keep Bettas in too small a volume of water all of the time but unless they do right amount of water changes the Betta won't live as long as it should.


----------



## katmandew

I too got my first tank up and running back in January. Without knowing anything about cycling and testing the water I added a Betta who SEEMED to be enjoying his new place, swimming around, checking out the cave, etc. To make a long story short, he died in three days.

I joined this forum to understand how to properly set up and maintain a tank. I'm no expert since I'm still cycling but you MUST get a test kit and check your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. I'm on week 5 of cycling and it's still not complete. It seems simple to put a fish in and watch them go but that's not the case. There's more to it than making sure the temperature is warm.

Seriously, get a test kit and read some of the posts on cycling a tank. I had no idea what I was doing but I feel more confident with the help of the good people on here. Good luck. 



MomaDragonfly said:


> Ive had my VT Since Monday... today is day 6. I started him in a 1 gal bowl and on day three moved him to a 5 gal tank. I was advised to not let it cycle because the water temp in the 1 gal tank was more then likely to low. Room temp being 70, he was sitting on the bottom the entire second day. I put him in bag and over an hour every 10 min added the new tank water (treated with "betta h20 declorinator) Once in the new tnak and the warm water he became super active and has been making a bubble nest all day today. This is my first Betta and first tank. I know nothing about cycles and water changes... Its a little confusing at the moment. Some ppl say every couple weeks to once a month and some say every week. ... I have a Terta WhipserMico filter running and 2 live plants. I did purchase a vac but have never used one before and don't have water test kit. The water is crystal clear. He has been in the tank for 2 days today. Am I doing anything wrong? Also, I feed him Betta Bites once a day... 3-5 very small pellets. I have freeze dried blood worms also, but have only feed those once, before adding him to the new tank. Thanks!! Everyone on here is so helpful, I don't know what I would have done without finding and joining this site. Also... There is a pic of the tank in my albums is any of the setup isn't looking ideal. i still have to get a cave of somesort for him to hide in, just haven't been able to get out and do that yet. Thanks again


----------



## PupPetta

I purchased a test kit the other day (I'm not really attempting to cycle my tank, but was just curious if it had naturally occurred over the past few months). The test kit tests for nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity and ph, unfortunately not ammonia. So I was wondering, if my Nitrate level is low and my nitrite level reads 0, is it safe to say my ammonia level is at a good level? 

Also, my water is extremely hard. My betta has been living in it for over a year but I have noticed that over that time his fins have become frail and less full than when I first put him in. Could this be due to the hardness of the water?


----------



## Oldfishlady

Hard water can have some effect on the fins-especially the CT. My water is really hard along with a high pH and it hasn't caused any fin problems for any of my Long fin Bettas, however, I do have problems with the CT rays and why I don't work with them. I have found it easier to keep what works best in my source water than to try and change it-with some exception with other species of fish I spawn-but with Bettas-I just don't keep CT.

Some, not all, Long fin males can have fin issue with water movement and space. These long delicate fins can tatter from the current itself-as well as use of them to swim-be it in large water volume or against a current-It can vary based a lot on genetics, age and nutrition in how they tolerate it. Some won't have any problems at all...

As for your cycle-Usually if you don't have nitrite you won't have ammonia, however, that is not a sure thing-you should go ahead and get the ammonia test kit too-Testing is the only sure way to know.

The thinning or weakness of his fins could be due to water movement, space, water quality, age, genetics and/or nutrition related.


----------



## Olympia

And folks we are back online! Thanks to yours truly.









OFL if you ever see this, don't get mad, think of all the people that need this...


----------



## finnfinnfriend

Thanks for bringing back this thread!


----------



## dramaqueen

Thank you, Olimpia!.


----------



## avraptorhal

Thanks. Great job.


----------



## JoyLightfoot

*PH question*

I have a question about ph in my tank.
The strip test that I used said my water is 8.4 alkaline and I have had a few fish die on me today. Walmart didn't have any ammonia test kits and I won't get my master test kit until Monday or Tuesday. I bought the ammonia fizz corrector, but I am nervous about using it without having tested the ammonia levels first. I know that you said that bettas can adapt to most ph levels, so should I assume the problem is ammonia? Test strip showed:
Nitrate no3 was 20
Nitrate no2 was between 0 and .5
Total hardness was 75 (soft)
Total Alkalinity was 300 (very high) 
pH was 8.4

Thanks!


----------



## Hallyx

Your readings are reasonable depending on the accuracy of your test. NO2 is nitrite, NO3 is nitrate. Your pH is high, and not likely to move much with that alkalinity. Don't know why your (GH) hardness is so low, but it's not unique.

I don't think your ammonia is that high. Prime conditioner (by Seachem) detoxifies ammonia for a couple of days. Use 2 drops/gal every two days for safety until your liquid test kit arrives.

Do not mess with your pH.


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

*Question about Nitrites*

First of all, thank you so much for this thread. After being very confused about how to cycle with a betta in tank, this has been a life saver. I have been cycling for about 10 days and I know I need to be patient. I have a question that I hope you can help with. I have no ammonia showing, and no Nitrates showing but the Nitrite reading seems to remain between 2.0 and 3.0 ppm even when I change out water. I know it may be a few more weeks before I see that reading go to zero. I am wondering how much stress it is putting on my betta though. He is a very friendly and active fish. He plays, hides in his rocks and always rushes out in the morning to greet me. I also have 2 African Dwarf frogs and a couple of snails in the tank. Just worried that the nitirite reading may be harmful to my betta.

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Hallyx

>2.0ppm nitrite is dangerously high. Not sure how you can get that reading without ammonia. Nitrite comes from ammonia...only. Test your sourcewater.

Never let nitrite or ammonia get >0.25ppm. Change water until you get that. Don't be afraid of large water changes >50%. Cut back on feeding. Get some live plants.


----------



## shellieca

PNWBettakeeper said:


> First of all, thank you so much for this thread. After being very confused about how to cycle with a betta in tank, this has been a life saver. I have been cycling for about 10 days and I know I need to be patient. I have a question that I hope you can help with. I have no ammonia showing, and no Nitrates showing but the Nitrite reading seems to remain between 2.0 and 3.0 ppm even when I change out water. I know it may be a few more weeks before I see that reading go to zero. I am wondering how much stress it is putting on my betta though. He is a very friendly and active fish. He plays, hides in his rocks and always rushes out in the morning to greet me. I also have 2 African Dwarf frogs and a couple of snails in the tank. Just worried that the nitirite reading may be harmful to my betta.
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


+1 with hallyx.
Out of curiosity how big is your tank? Are you using a liquid test kit or strips? Have you seen ANY ammonia in the 10 days the tank has been cycling?


----------



## Oldfishlady

PNWBettakeeper said:


> First of all, thank you so much for this thread. After being very confused about how to cycle with a betta in tank, this has been a life saver. I have been cycling for about 10 days and I know I need to be patient. I have a question that I hope you can help with. I have no ammonia showing, and no Nitrates showing but the Nitrite reading seems to remain between 2.0 and 3.0 ppm even when I change out water. I know it may be a few more weeks before I see that reading go to zero. I am wondering how much stress it is putting on my betta though. He is a very friendly and active fish. He plays, hides in his rocks and always rushes out in the morning to greet me. I also have 2 African Dwarf frogs and a couple of snails in the tank. Just worried that the nitirite reading may be harmful to my betta.
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


My first thought when I see reading like this...is some type of error-be it with the testing product, the tester...etc.....Or it could be a result of an interaction of some type.

When you get skewed readings like this and your fish are otherwise acting/behaving like they normally do....Your results are most likely a false result-That said, we needs some more info to be sure all is okay...

What size tank, type of filter, type of additives used, any live plants, type of substrate. What kind of testing products, what is your source water, test results on the source water with and without the regular additives used. To be clear-this tank has been running for 10 day with 1 Betta and 2 ADF's...correct.


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

Thanks for the quick reply, Oldfishlady. 

yes, I have a Betta and 2 ADFs in the tank and they have been in for around 10 days now. The tank is one that combines the aquarium and hydroponics so its an interesting set up called an Aqua Farm. The tank is a 5 gallon tank and has a system that uses a pump to cycle water from the bottom to a tray on the top which is where there are 5 pots of wheat grass growing hydroponically. The theory is the the plants use the Nitrate to grow and the water that returns to the tank is cleaned by the plants. In addition I have 4 aquatic plants in the 5 gallon aquarium. All the plants are looking very healthy and I am seeing significant new growth on the plants. 

The system cycles the water from bottom to top, but does not have a specific filtration system. I think the tray where there wheat grass roots are spread is most likely where the good bacteria would collect and in examining the tray it looks like there is a slightly slimy surface which leads me to believe that there is an active colony there.

Additives used are Tidy Tank sludge eradicator and a product called Zym-Bac - both made by Kordon. (these products came with the kit and are supposed to make bacteria grow more rapidly in the tank) The substrate is standard small aquarium gravel . The source water comes from the filter system in the office and I have tested that for chlorine and there is none in the water. Just to be safe, I add betta-safe to the water before I add to the tank. I have also tested the water before adding to the tank and this is what I get:

Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Hardness 75
Chlorine 0
Alkalinity 140
PH - 7.8

I am using Tetra Easy Strips

I just tested the water and got this reading

Nitrate 20
Nitrite 3.0
Hardness 150
Chlorine 0
Alkalinity 180
PH 8.4

I purchased a separate Ammonia test kit and got a zero reading from that so at least I know there is no Ammonia in the water.

Sorry for the long response - hope that covers it. I am more than willing to be patient, just worried that the Nitrites could be bad for the fish.


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

*Picture of tank*


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

shellieca said:


> +1 with hallyx.
> Out of curiosity how big is your tank? Are you using a liquid test kit or strips? Have you seen ANY ammonia in the 10 days the tank has been cycling?


Strangely I have not seen any ammonia during the process. I was new to this so I did not test for it until yesterday for the first time. The test strips I purchased did not include Ammonia so I purchased a test kit yesterday. 

The results I am getting and the tank size etc are all below. 

Thanks


----------



## Oldfishlady

What a neat little tank....The last test is that from the tank, if so, most likely what you are seeing is the results from the chemical additives and shouldn't cause any problems for the livestock as evident by the fish and frogs themselves as well as the plant growth...lol....

IMO/E-plants as filtration systems are one of the best and most efficient filtration systems you can have.


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

Thank you so much for your help. I was really worried about Bingo. I really stumbled into this. I had seen a write up about this tank and I was really intrigued with the idea of creating a system where you could actually grow food using the nitrates provided by fish. I purchased the system as an educational tool so I could understand how a system like this could work. Having never kept fish before I am having to learn all about this on the fly. The part that I dod not expect is the connection that I have formed with Bing, the Betta. He is seriously more like a dog than a fish. I would never, ever have guessed that I could form a bond with a fish, but there you have it, it has happened. Now, rather than worrying about what kind of food I can grow in the hydroponics part, I am just obsessing about how to create the best environment for Bingo. Thanks for answering all my questions, you are really a life saver, or at lease saving me from obsessive paranoia. I am just going to keep watching the water and more importantly, watching the animal behavior as I am guessing that is the very best indicator. I will let you know how things go in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Oldfishlady

Your welcome and so true with these little fish...Some can have personalities bigger than some mammals...lol....

You don't want to over think things IMO/E-often all we need to do is relax-sit back and enjoy our little wet pets. Trust your gut feelings and very true IME- that the fish itself is often the best tester/indicator regarding water quality.

When in doubt....make a 50% _water only_ change...IME-99.9% of the time that is what you will do with abnormal test results anyway...


----------



## PNWBettakeeper

Well the weekend did the trick. I came in this morning and the nitrites had dropped to zero. I have a 20ppm reading on Nitrate which I think must be a good thing for the plants in the tank as they have all grown a couple of inches over the weekend. The water looks really clear and everyone in the tank seems very happy this morning. Thanks again for your help. Being a newbie I am more paranoid about this than I should be. It's comforting to have generous people on this forum willing to offer advice. Very grateful for the hand holding.


----------



## galtgirl

WHEW...wish I had read this two weeks ago. I've got a 5 gallon filtered tank and I've been changing 40% twice a week. Betta and tank look great; guess I've been sweating the whole cycle thing for nothing. 
Thanks so much for the information.


----------



## thendeathsaid

Hi, thanks for all the info. It helped to clear things up. Could I ask for some specific advice? I got a betta yesterday. I'd been planning for it for a while but I hadn't heard about cycling until today. 

My tank is new. It's 2.5 gallons and has two plants large enough to fill one of the corners, a bit of gravel for the plants to hold onto, and one ornament (big enough for the betta to swim into). I also have a bubble stone connected to an air pump blowing a very low stream of bubbles into the water. 

The betta is about 4 months old and is active and healthy. 

I had put fresh water into the tank (I use bottled water by the way, pH about 7.0-7.2 and added a bit of aquarium salt) a few hours before acclimatising the betta. But when I checked the tank today, the water was already cloudy (not terribly cloudy but it's easily visible). I googled some things and found info saying that it's related to the cycling process. 

Is it indeed related? I'm wondering whether I should get into cycling with a filter and all, or just maintain the water with regular changes. But I really don't like the cloudy water!

Right now I'm planning to change 50% of the water in two days (3 days from when I got the betta), get more plants, and possibly get a small sponge filter. I'm not sure about the last, however, because from the advice I've read on this thread, changing the water regularly should maintain things, since I have a 2.5 gallon tank.

How does this sound, and is there anything else I should take into account? Thank you!


----------



## Hallyx

Bottled water may not contain all the minerals your fish needs to stay healthy. Conditioned tapwater is recommended. And Prime by Seachem is the most recommended conditioner because it detoxifies ammonia.

The cloudiness is a harmless bacteria lbloom. Unfortunately, it's not the nitrifying bacteria you want to cultivate in your tank.

Do not use salt.

A 50% change every three days is appropriate for a 2.5g tank. Use Prime at 2-drops/gal of tank size with every change. 

A cycled tank is healthier, and a 2.5g can be safely cycled with a sponge filter (recommended). But a small tank is a little finicky. I'd say get used to tank maintenance and fishkeeping for a month or so. Read up on cycling---several stickies in this section. When you're comfortable caring for your fish, we'll coach you through the cycling process.

Live plants are a definite plus if you can handle them. And as many as you can maintain. Makes it a lot safer, especially in a small tank. See the "Planted tank" section of this forum.

Welcome to the forum.


----------



## jaysee

I believe bottled water is nothing more than RO water.


----------



## thendeathsaid

Thanks for the advice! I'll get a sponge filter and keep reading up on stuff 

I'm using bottled mineral water--is that okay? I read that it's only the pure/distilled bottled water that's dangerous. 

Also just curious, how come I shouldn't use salt?


----------



## jaysee

For most applications, salt is snake oil for the aquarium.


----------



## Hallyx

Salt messes with their osmoregulation. (You can Google that if you're interested.) Betta are freshwater fish; they never see salt in their natural environment. 

Bottled mineral water is OK. But what's wrong with your tapwater?

We'd love to continue answering your questions. But it would be better if you started a new thread. This one is drifting off-topic.


----------



## MrsRowell706

I'm also new to this cycle stuff, if I buy a 5gal filtered tank and add some real plants will I still have to cycle or can I put my betta right in? And will it matter if the tank is used or not?


----------



## jaysee

MrsRowell706 said:


> I'm also new to this cycle stuff, if I buy a 5gal filtered tank and add some real plants will I still have to cycle or can I put my betta right in? And will it matter if the tank is used or not?


Welcome to the forum

In fish keeping, you will have to do a water change any time you have ammonia or nitrite in the water. Doesn't matter if you have plants or not, a filter or not. Ammonia and nitrite are poison for the fish so any time, in any situation, you have measurable ammonia/nitrite it is time for a water change. When you are doing a fish in cycle, that can be as frequent as every day. If you have a lot of plants, perhaps only once or twice a week. All depends on how long it takes to accumulate in the water. If you bought a 55 gallon and put a betta in it, you might never have to change the water while the tank cycles because there is so much water that it will take X amount of time to accumulate to measurable levels. Just to illustrate the point.

So yes, you can put the fish in right away, as long as you know you need to do water changes when the tests tell you.

Only makes a difference between new and used if the tank was in use when you bought it. Then, the bacteria will be there and you shouldnt have to cycle.


----------



## MrsRowell706

jaysee said:


> Welcome to the forum
> 
> In fish keeping, you will have to do a water change any time you have ammonia or nitrite in the water. Doesn't matter if you have plants or not, a filter or not. Ammonia and nitrite are poison for the fish so any time, in any situation, you have measurable ammonia/nitrite it is time for a water change. When you are doing a fish in cycle, that can be as frequent as every day. If you have a lot of plants, perhaps only once or twice a week. All depends on how long it takes to accumulate in the water. If you bought a 55 gallon and put a betta in it, you might never have to change the water while the tank cycles because there is so much water that it will take X amount of time to accumulate to measurable levels. Just to illustrate the point.
> 
> So yes, you can put the fish in right away, as long as you know you need to do water changes when the tests tell you.
> 
> Only makes a difference between new and used if the tank was in use when you bought it. Then, the bacteria will be there and you shouldnt have to cycle.


Thank you for the info
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hallyx

In order to run the water tests Jaysee refers to, you should have one of these:

Amazon.com: API Freshwater Master Test Kit: Pet Supplies


Keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm by performing water changes when necessary.

Welcome to the forum.


----------



## KaiStar

Hi everyone. I've had my 5 gallon tank Since early December, and I'm pretty sure I messed up the cycling because I did a couple of 100% water changes, including cleaning EVERYTHING. (The water looked murky, and fishy didn't look too good, so I panicked.) Now, the ammonia has finally been spiking. Again, I freaked out, also realized I hadn't been cleaning the substrate properly (changed from river rocks earlier, to gravel) and now finally have all the right stuff, vacuum, proper test kit (not API, because I was using Prime and so it wasn't working, so I gotSeaChem) and I think I'm getting closer to figuring things out... Ammonia is between .25 and .50, Nitrites finally seem to be rising, but Nitrates are still 0. So my questions are: Do I need to vacuum right now, or do I just do 25% water changes only until I see Nitrates? Also, will Prime mess up the cycling process by neutralizing Nitrite and Nitrates, or does it only convert the Ammonia to make it safer for fishy? Oh, it's not planted, I have a Fluval Spec 5 w/Sponge Filter & Water pump on low.


----------



## Hallyx

Prime does nothing to effect the cycle. It merely converts ammonia to a safe form.

Do not vacuum. Change 50% of the water whenever ammonia rises above 0.25ppm (on the _total ammonia_ chart). A 50% change when nitrite rises above 0.25ppm. Don't worry about nitrate. Dose Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size and 1-drop/gal daily while cycling.

After cycling, a weekly 50% change with Prime should be your water change schedule forever.


----------



## KaiStar

Hallyx said:


> Prime does nothing to effect the cycle. It merely converts ammonia to a safe form.
> 
> Do not vacuum. Change 50% of the water whenever ammonia rises above 0.25ppm (on the _total ammonia_ chart). A 50% change when nitrite rises above 0.25ppm. Don't worry about nitrate. Dose Prime @ 2-drops/gal of tank size and 1-drop/gal daily while cycling.
> 
> After cycling, a weekly 50% change with Prime should be your water change schedule forever.


Thanks so much!


----------



## elz2715

Hi there, 
I am new to fish keeping and recently bought my first Betta, his name is Lucky, and two Amano shrimp (Jacque and Jill- sadly Jill did not survive the move to her new home and was found to have died on day 3)
I decided to do a fish in cycle (well, actually until I looked at some of the forums on here i was pretty clued up on Betta's, but clueless on tanks and their cycle it seems) and am now on day 4. I have not done any tests yet, but after discovering the whole 'cycling process' I ordered a test strip kit online, with delivery being estimated for tomorrow. 
The question I have is why is my water cloudy? Is this a normal part of the process? How long will it take to clear?
I have attached some pictures below to show you what i mean.

Just for the record I did rinse my gravel before adding it (although it is possible I maybe wasn't thorough enough.) And, the instructions for my tank were dismal, so it wasn't until day 2 when I was looking at the pre-assembled filter (it's kinda built in) that I realised the instructions had failed to mention that I needed to remove plastic bags from the carbon and ceramic filter medias, so the filter has only been running properly for probably a little over 24 hours now.
With the Betta I added the ornament along with one moss ball and the real plant on the bottom (any advice on to what this plant is would be appreciated), then on day two I added Water Lettuce and another moss ball, as well as the bog wood which came out of a LFS tank. I have a heater set to stay at 26C or 78F, and the built in filter is set to low to avoid fins getting sucked up and too strong a current for the Betta. 

I have been using API Stress Coat and Stress Zyme to treat the water. And LoveFish Tropical Fish food pellets (recommended by Pets at Home, and they both seem happy to eat them)
Also, I dont know if it's relevant but since Day 2 my shrimp have (or has, being there is only one now) an aversion to the water, they were great day 1, chomping down food and on the moss balls, but then they would just stay in the top left hand corner of the tank by the filter intake not moving. Or swim around for a bit and then go straight back and not move for hours again, I also haven't noticed them eating much. I'm not sure if it's because Lucky bugs them? He was having a right go at the dead one at least but as far as I have seen is fine with the live one...

They are in a 19L tank, which i think converts to 4ish gallons imperial, 5 gallons US.

Day 1


Feeding Time


Day 2

(after a bit of disruption due to an escaping shrimp)

Day 3 (in process of 20% water change)


Sorry for the large volume of information... But any help would be appreciated 
Thanks


----------



## Hallyx

After 4 days with a 5g tank, you're ready for at least a 50% water change--- as recommended near the start of this thread (which you should go back and re-read). Do a 50% change whenever your test shows ammonia of 0.50ppm. Same with nitrite when it appears.

Stresscoat is a good water conditioner. Use as instructed with every water change. As a safety precaution, dose Stresscoat at 1/2 strength every other day. Stresszyne does nothing useful. Return it if you can. Most of us use Prime water conditioner by Seachem. You might consider getting that when your Stresscoat runs out.

Shrimp are sensitive to ammonia. Its behavior may indicate an ammonia build-up. When in doubt, the first thing to do is a 50% water change with conditioner. 

More water lettuce and other live plants always help. Use a 6500K (Kelvin -- color temperature) bulb. I think that striped plant is only semi-aquatic and may deteriorate over time. Check in the _Planted Betta Tank_ section of this forum.

Upgrade your food. New Life Spectrum Betta and Omega One Betta Buffet are the best you can easily get.

Cloudiness may indicate the beginning of your cycle, especially as you added bogwood from the LFS which likely has nitrifying bacteria on. Sounds like you're on you way. 

Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## elz2715

Hallyx said:


> After 4 days with a 5g tank, you're ready for at least a 50% water change--- as recommended near the start of this thread (which you should go back and re-read). Do a 50% change whenever your test shows ammonia of 0.50ppm. Same with nitrite when it appears.
> 
> Stresscoat is a good water conditioner. Use as instructed with every water change. As a safety precaution, dose Stresscoat at 1/2 strength every other day. Stresszyne does nothing useful. Return it if you can. Most of us use Prime water conditioner by Seachem. You might consider getting that when your Stresscoat runs out.
> 
> Shrimp are sensitive to ammonia. Its behavior may indicate an ammonia build-up. When in doubt, the first thing to do is a 50% water change with conditioner.
> 
> More water lettuce and other live plants always help. Use a 6500K (Kelvin -- color temperature) bulb. I think that striped plant is only semi-aquatic and may deteriorate over time. Check in the _Planted Betta Tank_ section of this forum.
> 
> Upgrade your food. New Life Spectrum Betta and Omega One Betta Buffet are the best you can easily get.
> 
> Cloudiness may indicate the beginning of your cycle, especially as you added bogwood from the LFS which likely has nitrifying bacteria on. Sounds like you're on you way.
> 
> Good luck and welcome to the forum.


Thank you so much for your help, my test strips should be arriving today, so as soon as they do I will do the 50% water change (I did read the beginning of this forum, but as I had already done the 20% water change which was advised somewhere else I decided to wait a few days on the 50% not to over do it)

The stress coat and zyme both came together in a mini 'starter pack', but thanks for your advice, I will invest in the better one when renewing the product.

I don't seem to be able to locate either of the foods you suggested either online or when checking stock in LFS (I'm in UK... Possiblyb why?) But I have ordered 'Hikari Tropical Betta Bio-Gold Tropical Fish Food' as this was the mostly highly regarded one I could find.

Hopefully it is the start- the water seems to have started clearing again today now, so that can only be positive and the shrimp seems to have ventured back in the the depths... Well at least I can't see him on the water lettuce or the side 

Thanks again for your kind help, and for welcoming me to the forum!


----------



## Doting Mama

Hi all, I have a 2.5 gallon tank, with a filter. I do 2 50% water changes a week as per OFL instruction. "In a 1gal-4gal filtered tank-without live plants:
Water changes of twice weekly 50%...1-50% water only and 1-50% to include the substrate by vacuum or stir and dip method. Filter media needs swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of time a month" 

I just got 2 anubias nana plants and one larger one. My question is - does this change my WC schedule? Should I still be adding a drop or 2 of prime on the days when I'm not changing the water?


----------



## Hallyx

Anubias are lovely plants -- my favorite -- but they don't grow fast enough to effect water quality. Keep to your current schedule.


----------



## Friendlyfishies

hi. I have 5 gal hawkeye hex. planted (anubias, ludwigia broad, wisteria I believe and 2 marimos, I also have some frogbit and a crypt in QT and will be adding in 2 weeks. im using eco complete sub and a 50/50 daylight bulb. my filter is a mingon 60 rated for up to 3.5 gals. i am using a sponge in the filter and this in the filter 

http://www.petsmart.com/supplies/fi...d36-5148398/cat-36-catid-300089?_t=pfm=search

50w adj heater 78 deg. today is the first day it is up an running. The betta is in it and is doing alright hes spunky. he is a Walmart rescue, faded with stress stripes but slowly coming around. im attempting a fish in cycle and just want to ensure i do this well for his sake...

i have .25 ammonia in my well water, so i am a bit confused.
i am using prime.

From my limited understanding ...
50% water change on day 3
50% water change day with vaccum day 6
continue this til cycled
add prime every day or every other day until cycle is complete? 
how many drops? (5g)
should i be checking my readings daily with the api test kit or just every few days, or on water change days? 
what should my readings say?

or perhaps im not supposed to follow the 50% change schedule and i should be doing changes based on tests? 

i know this sticky is awesomely simplified but im really no joke dumb about this stuff and need it even more simplifies lol!


----------



## Hallyx

Your setup is just fine for a single Betta. You have everything you need to cycle safely. This is as simple as I can make it. CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial 

It's based on some of the information above, as well as other sources and experience.

With that Wisteria, Ludwigia and Frogbit eating up all the ammonia before the bacteria can get to it, I think you'll find your cycle is going to be a "backup" ammonia-reducer. The plants will be doing most of the work.

Not my business, but I think you ought to investigate why you have so much ammonia in your well.


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## Friendlyfishies

thanks hallyx, I was told its from the run off from the snow melt. when I had bettas several yrs ago I did not have the problem. hoping it will clear up after spring. If not then yes, definitely need to investigate it.


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## Athra

Hi, I'm new to the forums and looking for a little help... I am trying to set up a new tank, and I was reading these forums before I bought anything so I'm trying to do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia, to have everything ready before I put a Betta into my tank. 

I dosed the tank with ammonia and tetra safe start on 3/31, and finally started seeing a change two days ago, when it looked like nitrates were maybe starting to show in the tank. I tested again today, and I definitely have nitrates now (5.0ppm) but 0 nitrites and the ammonia hasn't seemed to drop at all since I dosed the tank (it's at about 4.0ppm). Should I be doing a water change, or just continue to let it to its thing?

I've attached a photo of my test from a few minutes ago. Thanks!


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## Hallyx

As long as you don't dose the ammonia any higher, you're OK. But you might want to cut the ammonia in half by changing water. It'll make reproduction easier for the sensitive nitrite-oxidizing bacteria.

If your cycle is producing nitrate already, you're really ahead of the game. 

Would you start a new thread with this information? Because you're doing a fishless cycle, it would be easier for us to track.

Welcome to the forum.


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## marcusmama

I need a little advice here...We got our betta late September but of course, didn't know about cycling the tank. So dumb. I did get the API test kit and was concerned about ammonia, so I was doing 100% water changes, destroying any chance for our bacteria bed to grow. We have a 5 gallon filtered tank, with a heater at 78 degrees. After doing research, I realized I need to let some ammonia build but not too much, to attempt the nitrogen cycle. In the meantime, I noticed our new fish came home with fin rot. I was doing 25%-50% water changes with Prime conditioner, but I was also adding aquarium salt to attempt to address the fin rot. After off an on treatment, I wasn't seeing much improvement and was concerned about fin biting due to stress. I realized my filter current was too high, so I created a clean water bottle shield that diverts/blocks the water current. This has helped tremendously and I see that he is able to swim so much more easily. I have stopped using salt in his tank, instead opting for salt baths for 5 minutes but I have only done two, three days apart. I am noticing new growth on his tail...a clear, milky appearance. THe problem is that treating for the fin rot may have caused my cycle never to occur. Today I did a 30% water change and treated new water with Prime. When I tested the water my ammonia level was between .25 and .50! My nitrite was between .25 and .50 and my nitrate was between 0 and 5.0. Do I just continue to do daily water changes? Did the Prime affect my test results? I don't want to do too many water changes because I want my tank to cycle. I believe I was overcleaning the sand in the beginning. I hope all of this makes sense! Thank you in advance!!


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## Hallyx

So far, it sounds like you're doing everything right.

Your current readings indicate your tank is well on the way to being cycled. Keep doing what you're doing. Double check it against this: CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial 

Some people claim Prime can slow down a cycle. At the rate yours is progressing, this is a moot point. Use Prime regularly (daily) as long as you have ammonia in your water.

Your treatment for finrot seems to be working. Once you read 0.0ppm ammonia, just warm, clean water will do the trick -- along with high-protein, good-quality food.

Welcome to the forum.


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## susan32877

*Saltwater filter material?*

I am a complete newby. My mom is 89 and lives with me. She got a 2.5 gal. National Geographic tank with filter for Christmas. She doesn't want to wait to cycle the tank and I thank you for your initial post with such great information. I was wondering if we could speed up the process by adding a small piece of salt water filter medium or if it has to come from a fresh water tank. My neighbors have a salt water tank. And if I could use it, how much would I need for such a small tank. We plan on getting a betta fish tomorrow. Would I add the medium before or after getting the fish. Any advice is welcome.


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## Hallyx

I see you are familiar with the technique of seeding the tank with live bacteria. Very good; you're a step ahead. Unfortunately, the bacteria for salt-water, while closely related, is not the same as the bacteria for fresh-water.

But, you're in luck; the bacteria for freshwater is all around you in the environment -- in the air and water everywhere. Or you can buy it from your Local Fish Store (LFS), if you like.

Cycling a tank with the fish in it is common practice in the Betta community. CYCLING: the two-sentence tutorial

You need a filter, a test kit (API Freshwater Master Test Kit) and Prime water conditioner by Seachem. 

You don't have to cycle your tank immediately. You can safely keep a Betta in a 2.5g tank by doing regular water changes (half the water every third day) and adding a few drops of Prime every day.

Feed him New Life Spectrum brand Betta pellets (or semi-floating) or Omega One Betta Buffet pellets. 

Use an *adjustable* 25W heater to keep his water around 80* -- check it with a separate thermometer.

Get some cloth artificial plants for him to hide in and feel secure, and a small cup for him to use as a cave for privacy.

Choose the most alert and active fish available, with no ripped or ragged fins or blemishes.

Read as much as you can on the forum, and feel free to ask any questions as often as you'd like.

Welcome to the forum.


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## susan32877

Thank you for all the advice! The food that came with the gift is Aqueon. Is that ok? Or should I either return it or throw it out and get the one you suggested?


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## susan32877

*Ordered everything*

Ignore the previous post. I ordered the test kit, food and prime from Amazon. The food that mom got for Christmas was not good. I needed a magnifying glass to see the ingredients. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Arnold

I've learnt well after reading this threads thank u


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## Arnold

I like this forum for caring bettas and i got more information about bettas


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## Arnold

Yesterday i have placed a cave like to hide in but i have never seen 
betta hide


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