# Is it columnaris or bad petstore maintenance? New Betta owner, please help!



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

I know that I am a brand-new member to this community, but I've been researching like a madwoman to prepare myself for my very first Betta fish (though I have owned other fish before), and I have found this site extremely helpful with considerate and knowledgeable members. Thus, I come to you... on my very first day of Betta parenthood.

His name is Harlot, and I have already fallen deeply in love with him. What you won't like is that, yes, I did purchase him from Petco (and yes, he is a veiltail, which I know you breeders are not quite fond of - but they are actually my favorite), and he does show the wear-and-tear of improper maintenance. I'm an undergrad and I simply don't have the money to buy a quality $30-$60 fish. That said, I -believe- I picked a young(er) one who was quite lively and seemed to have a personality of his own. He -appeared- healthy. I had a person from the fish department check him out, and he said all was good. However, when I called the store beforehand, I asked how often they restocked their Betta fish. The woman said once a week. Later I found out from a very kind employee that these fish have been sitting out for several months. I am utterly disgusted.

Luckily, however, at least Harlot has a good a healthy home with me, and I am taking proper care of him. But as a worried mother, I noticed some unusual signs with him.

*For instance:*






 
Notice the grey patch on his left cheek? There are two others on his right cheek. Are these just harmless freckles or greyish lesions? There are also white spots on his left cheek, but they may just be his natural coloration.

*And more importantly:*







 
What on earth is on the underside of his chin? It appears yellowish in the picture, but it seems more white in person. What I couldn't capture on camera was the white gunk beneath his gills. It doesn't look cottony at all, and as a previous fish-owner, it doesn't look like ich either. What could it be? Is it natural? He does have some natural white coloration in certain spots, but it just seems peculiar.

Here are the symptoms I can identify:
- previously mentioned weird (whatever they are) on face and gills
- fins eroding (maybe because he's young and they haven't grown fully yet, or because of improper petstore care... they are somewhat jagged and ripped-looking in parts)
- occasional rapid gill movement & frequent surfacing for air or breathing air bubbles off the tank
- seems to hiding behind the filter often (new home nerves?)

Other than that, he seems like a very happy fish. His equarium is brand-spanking new, fully equipt, and I tested everything in the water (which declared the equarium completely safe) before releasing my Betta. He moves around a lot, is very curious, ate two pellets tonight, and even gave me a few flash dances and waved his fins around! He released bubbles, but I'm not sure if they were happy bubbles or just burps. In short, this kid confuses me!!

Please ... tell me if I'm being an over-protective parent or if there is something seriously wrong, and - if you know - please explain how I may fix it and how much it would cost to fix.

Thank you so much for reading through all my rambling, and for your generous assistance! I appreciate it beyond belief.

P.S. Can any of you guess how old this bugger really is? I know he's not young-young, but I was hoping he's somewhere around adolescent. And in your opinion, will his fins continue to grow with age or are they just too damaged?

Again, thank you with all my heart. <3 Harlot thanks you too!


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

UPDATE: Weird funky white/grey stuff is starting to spread around his face, very prevalent at night. It -almost- looks like a fungus... please tell me it's not columnaris. ):







 
... his eyes are white because of the flash.

Please help. I'm very worried.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi SageMyster and welcome to the forum.  It seems like your guy may have a bit of mouth rot, which is a form of columnaris. I'm not an expert so you may want to wait for a second opinion, though. However, if it is mouth rot, you can treat it with aquarium salt and see if that clears it up. If not, you'll have to try Maracyn I. If Harlot has live plants in his tank, you'll want to treat him in a small QT container, like the cup he came in from Petco (they are so handy for QT). Mix 1 gallon of dechlorinated water with one tsp of aquarium salt, letting the salt dissolve. Fill his QT container with this and put him in. If your house is warm and you think he'll stay around 76-80 degrees farenheit, then just put his cup wherever. If not, you can float his cup in his tank so it will stay warm. Just be sure it doesn't float into the filter if he has one. You'll want to change the water in his cup and redo the salt treatment every day for five days. If there is no change or the rot is spreading, you can either up the salt to two tsp per gallon or switch to Maracyn. I believe Maracyn runs about $11-15 at Petsmart. Your Petco may carry it, but my Petco doesn't carry any meds. 

The spots on his cheeks may or may not be related to the mouth rot. Offhand, I'd say they are ammonia burns and they'll heal in the salt treatment. His fins will heal as well. 

I have read that many pet store bettas are ex-breeders and are usually between 6 months to a year old before they reach pet store shelves. 

Harlot is a very beautiful, snazzy-looking guy. You should be very proud of him. And I personally love veiltails as well. I have two VT guys and six VT girls. And one halfmoon boy.


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Sakura,

Harlot has only fake plants in his tank - thank goodness - but the tank does have a filter. So do I still need to keep him in the QT container, or can I treat him while in the tank? And if so, will the plants and gravel have to be sterilized or replaced, or will they be cleaned by the salt as well?

Most importantly, if it is mouth rot and seems to be spreading rapidly, how long do you think he has to live? I wish I could run to the store right now, damn it. :/

Thank you SO much for responding! At least I have an idea of what may be the cause now. And as for the compliments to Harlot, thank you very much - and he thanks you too! I never understood why veiltails are so often thrown under the bus. Anyways, you are amazing, and thank you again, a million times!


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> fins eroding (maybe because he's young and they haven't grown fully yet, or because of improper petstore care... they are somewhat jagged and ripped-looking in parts)


Im guessing because petco sucks at betta care :evil: Every Betta I have gotten from them had an ammonia level over 4.0...

Are the ends black? if so It's probably fin rot which can be fixed with aquarium salt, warm water and frequent water changes. High ammonia levels can also burn holes in their fins  


I like to use stress coat because it has aloe in it and that's supposed to be good for fin regrowth.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sorry I couldn't get back to you right away. Harlot can be treated in his tank with the salt treatment, which should also help sterilize his plants etc. When he has been cured, you can take everything and wash it well with hot water but for now, it's probably best to leave things. 

Have the white/grey patches spread even more since your last post? If so, that IS a fast moving infection and you may want to bypass the salt entirely and go straight to Maracyn. If you treat him with Maracyn, be sure to remove any carbon from your filter.

You and Harlot are welcome. He really is a gorgeous red color, like a nice lipstick.  Not that Harlot wants to be compared to lipstick, being a guy and all . . .


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Tiki: Petco just sucks... in every way. They don't treat any of their animals right, and they think fish can just be self-maintainedm which is all wrong! Luckily Harlot's fins are not black at the edges and his ammonia levels are safe, but I will definitely look into this stress coat you mentioned. It's a shame to see such a pretty boy so mishandled.

Sakura: Surprisingly, it almost looks like he's better this morning. I think it has a lot to do with the light and how the rot appeared on him at night, which is why I thought it was getting worse. I will stick with the salt for now. (I'm still supposed to do water changes though, no? Do I just add more salt each cleaning or let the tank get a little dirty for a few days?). And, hypothetically, if Harlot continued to get sicker and if I DID use the Maracyn and have to turn my filter off, what would I do about ammonia levels without the water being clean?

I don't think Harlot minds being compared to lipstick... his name _is _Harlot after all.  Thank you for everything.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

the gold scales are just that. :d goldish scales. i freak out over those, too, but they're harmless color. :d 

as for the mouth rot, shoot a PM to OldFishLady. she's the one everyone goes to for help with columnaris. x: she tried to help me save my walmart betta, Remy. D: but, he didn't make it.


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Thank you Lui, I think I will.  And good, I didn't know if the chin scales were abnormal or just part of his coloration. Thanks for the advice! But I'm so sorry about Remy. ):


Also just a general question for anyone: Harlot seems to be hiding behind the filter a lot. Is this due to his illness, are his plants two short/not-plentiful-enough for security, or is it just because he's adjusting to his new home?


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> You'll want to change the water in his cup and redo the salt treatment every day for five days. If there is no change or the rot is spreading, you can either up the salt to two tsp per gallon...


I ran to the store and got him some salt treatment, and he already seems more lively. However, the treatment (API Aqaurium Salt) says to only put 1/2 tsp in the tank, while you say a full tsp. Which is better? And if it's in his tank (versus the cup), do I still add treatment to the tank every five days? How long should I wait before changing or messing with the water in any way while he's undergoing salt treatment? (I may have asked this before, whoops. I have a feeling this is a silly question. )

And before you give your advice, I must admit something that I know hard-core Betta enthusiasts loathe... he DOES live in a one-gallon tank. My uni won't allow a size much larger for my dorm at all. But here's my thing: He just came out of a petco cup that he's been sitting in for months (apparently). I keep his aqaurium as spacious as possible for a one-gallon and I'm consistantly checking the water levels. And he seems like a very relieved, happy fish. So there's my explanation for my misdeeds... since of course salt-to-gallon ratio is important. -hides-


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

one gallons aren't frowned upon on here. :d you won't get chewed out for admitting he lives in a one gallon here.  my Lulu is literally scared of anything bigger than her one gallon! :O i tried upgrading her, and she hid the whole week she was in it, only venturing out to eat, then she'd rush back into the cave. x: after putting her back in her gallon tank, she was active and excited. as long as the tank stays warm, and you keep up with water changes, it's fine. :3


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Oh thank you Lui! That makes my conscience feel much better, haha.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The general dosage around here on the forum is usually 1 tsp per gallon but if you feel more comfortable, by all means, 1/2 tsp will work too. 

If you give him salt treatment in his tank, you will change his water every day for five days (super clean water is one of the best remedies for fighting off diseases). You change 75-100% each day, then redo the salt treatment after each change for five days (five changes, five salt treatments). Since his tank is only a gallon, I'd actually suggest leaving him in his tank and not putting him in a cup, as there isn't much difference and he'll be more comfortable in his own home.

Bettas are more sedentary fish so they don't necessarily NEED a ton of space. A one gallon is perfectly fine for Harlot as long as you change the water at least every two days, as the ammonia builds up fast. With the exception of my sorority and my divided tank, all my bettas are in tanks 2-3g and they are all happy. So don't feel bad. Consider it this way from Harlot's perspective: you spend your whole life in a little cup you can barely turn around in, the somone puts you into a new container. You have no idea it's "only" a gallon, to you it's a mansion compared to the cup you were in. You have no idea anything bigger exists and you don't care. You just know you finally have room to turn around and stretch out. And you're happy.


----------



## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I agree, as long as you keep up with the water changes to keep down the ammonia and keep him heated he can live a nice life in a 1 gal tank. There are times I think my boy would like to be downgraded >.>


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

You've just explained it in a way that finally made sense to me! I'm right on it, captain! Thank you! Hopefully yesterday's fresh cleaned water is good enough for today, since I already treated the tank with salt this morning. Tomorrow I'll do a 75% change and a wipedown, though I may have to go MacGyver getting funk up from the marble gravel.

I saw a lot of flaming about 1 gallon tanks, so thank you both for the reassurance. Harlot seems very happy, so I personally am not worried at all. Thank you!


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

IMO it all looks like natural coloration to me but a Salt treatment won't hurt. Since you can do as much as 3tsp/gal Aquarium Salt without causing harm, 1tsp/gal is perfectly reasonable. Less than 1tsp/gal will not help much... Under treating can result in salt resistance. It is really best to do the full 1tsp. Just don't do salt treatments for more than 10 days. If his fins are receding then he definitely has fin rot and will need salt treatments and 100% daily water changes regardless. 

1 gallons aren't ideal, but as long as you keep it clean it and don't fill it all the way up with gravel it can be a suitable home!  

Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

I will definitely be using 1tsp/gal from now on then. Fin rot? ): Oh no. This really just enrages me about Petco. See, I don't know if they're actually receding or if they're just ragged from poor treatment/mouth rot. I haven't had him long enough to know if they're shrinking. So you recommend me taking him out of the tank completely for his five-day treatments as opposed to leaving him in with 75%? And if such is the case, would you also recommend sterilizing his plastic plants and gravel in hot water, or does it matter (as related to the treatments)?

Thanks in advance for the assistance, and I will most certainly keep you posted! I can't wait to see what he looks like when he's healthy!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Are Harlot's fins black around the edges and do they seem to crumble or melt off in large pieces? If so, that's fin rot. If they just look ragged, then it is Petco's usual brand of special care at work.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

You can treat him in the 1 gal. Since you will need to do daily 100% water changes for awhile it might be easiest to remove the plants and gravel temporarily. I do think you are only dealing with fin rot but if he also has mouth rot then it is important to sterilize everything (sterilization isn't so important with fin rot as long as you rinse things when you do your water changes). You can take him out and sterilize everything with a quick 10% bleach treatment. Rinse it thoroughly then fill it with treated water and put him back in. 

As for water changes, if you have two 1 gallon containers that will make your life much easier since you can always have one pretreated and sitting out so the temp is right.

Pretty much every betta gets some level of fin rot at some point in its life since they are so susceptible to it... The poor care at petco/petsmart definitely doesn't help matters.


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Ahh, so much conflicting advice! I guess everyone has their own operation methods, eh? :lol:



Sakura8 said:


> Are Harlot's fins black around the edges and do they seem to crumble or melt off in large pieces? If so, that's fin rot. If they just look ragged, then it is Petco's usual brand of special care at work.


No and no. I don't have much experience but I don't think it's fin rot. I think it's a case of 'The Petco'. I will try giving him stress coat for fin regrowth to see if it helps any though.

@Darkmoon: Actually I did buy a smaller tank for him in case of emergencies, so that will work splendidly! Regarding bleach treatment and mouth rot... you mean I should do this every day for the five-day treatment period? Do I also bleach the marbles and plants? ... Honestly I'm not so sure about bleach (clearly I'm not an expert, of course!), I'm just afraid of overdoing it and poisoning him somehow. Can I semi-sterilize his tank by soaking it in hot or steaming water instead, or will that not do?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can sterilize a tank using super hot water and vinegar and then letting it sun dry.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Perfect, that will make life so much easier. You would only need to sterilize the tank once as a precaution. If you aren't comfortable with bleach you can use hot water and vinegar as Sakura suggested. Mouth Rot is really aggressive so sterilizing the tank would be an important part of treatment but I really don't think he has it... you would have noticed some sort of change by now. With sick fish I usually rinse their jar under hot water during the daily water change too.


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Well, I'm very relieved! Thank you both for your patience and assistance!

Quick question: When rinsing the tank with hot water, do you remove all of the marbles and decor, or keep them in there? Will doing so disturb the natural bacteria at the bottom of the tank?

I'm beginning to think Harley isn't as sick as I initially presumed, so I don't think I will be sterilizing anything... maybe wiping down the tank with hot water just in case, but that's it. I'll track his progress.

In your opinion, what do you think his wart-like lesions are, and the weird white stuff under his gills? Just rough care from petstore breeders/handlers? Just normal for inbred Bettas?

(I guess this is becoming a not-so-quick-question but...) He's also flaring a bit (at nothing in particular) in a nonreflective tank, and he flared at me once or twice. He doesn't follow my finger. He's incredibly lively but... I'd like to bond with him. Is something wrong?

Again, thank you! Sorry for being such a pain in the ass!


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> Tiki: Petco just sucks... in every way. They don't treat any of their animals right, and they think fish can just be self-maintainedm which is all wrong! Luckily Harlot's fins are not black at the edges and his ammonia levels are safe, but I will definitely look into this stress coat you mentioned. It's a shame to see such a pretty boy so mishandled.


Yeah, I know and I find it distrubing especially since my petco has a "fish Guy". He hates me 

I'm wondering if that stuff under the gills is normal coloring? 

A red VT i got from petco had something similar but its kinda shiny, almost metallic looking...

I would post a pic if photobucket wasnt being dumb.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Tanks under 5-10gallons cannot cycle and build up beneficial bacteria so don't worry about that. For long term health you'll need to do a 100% water change every other day minimum. Preferably, perform a 100% every other day and do a 50% change on the days in between. Rinse the gravel and plants well to remove poop & bad bacteria.

I wouldn't worry too much about the "warts" or color under his gills. IMO it is all normal coloration. The color patterns you are seeing are very common in red bettas. Here are some pics of red bettas:

























You've only had him for a very short period of time. Give him time to settle in and he'll warm up to you 

Good luck, I'm glad he's ok!


----------



## SageMyster (Jul 13, 2011)

Well, I am a lot less worried now. Thanks to ALL of you for being so incredibly helpful! Now my focus is on fin-regeneration. I will keep you updated.


----------

