# Black Copper CT x Black Copper HM



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hey y'all! Never thought I'd actually be posting in this section but here I am!

This spawn is happening in conjunction with Lucillia on here, the father is her boy a Black Copper CT named Osiris. Originally I had a Black Copper CT girl as well who was supposed to be his mate but she had a premature death and then along came Isis a Black Copper Dragon CTPK, but alas she didn't want to spawn regardless of the methods I tried. So this spawn is instead not exactly what we'd hoped but we tried my little girl Silhouette, a Black Copper HM butterfly girl.

Goals: improved tail spread and healthy Black Copper babies.

Over time we'll have to fix the web reduction that we've basically ruined for the babies with these tail types but we'll see how it goes!

Pair spawned 8/13 sometime around 8-9pm. Eggs hatched 8/15 morning. Osiris was taken out today (8/17) and fry are horizontally swimming all over.

Osiris's AquaBid picture:


Silhouette the mother:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Video from early morning yesterday


And video later, better quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR-AiYhKpo


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Spawn log, awesome! Will follow...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

^_^

Yeah, can't tell if fry have eaten any of the Banana Worms at all but I put them in. I also can't tell if there are any fry that are dead. Some are on the bottom of the tank but they move around occasionally, some stay there while others skitter around and eventually make their way to the top. I assume dead fry will look completely white and possibly grow fungus on them if I don't find them in time?

Ooh forgot to say, I counted somewhere between 80-90 fry :-D


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## EvaJupiterSkies (Oct 25, 2013)

So excited! Definitely following!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

:-D!

Fry are still all alive this morning that I could see. They're in my Aqueon 13 gallon so it's rather long and the oak leaves are still in there so I'm sure plenty of them were hiding around. But when I looked over this morning I saw a bunch shooting and whizzing around the tank! Super exciting :-D


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

Following!


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

Yay! Good luck with the babies! Cant wait to see how they turn out.
(addicted to spawn logs)


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

wow that ct <3 so pretty!, will you be selling the fry eventually? I hope everything works out for youc: goodluck!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Eventually yes, we will sell the babies when they are old enough. Forum here gets first dibs but it won't be until another 3 good months at least, if not 4 ^_^

Thanks!


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Babies!!!!!!!! I can't wait to see them!!!!


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

sweet I was hoping you'd say thatxD lol


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lol yep! As long as everything goes well of course.

Did a teeny water change on the tank today, basically just sucked out some big debris with a turkey baster, only took out like a cup or so but I'm adding in just under a gallon. It's dripping in as we speak, also added Ramshorns to the tank too, they found the banana worms I put in quickly too lol.

Fry seem to be well, no one is deformed from what I've seen which is a good sign at least. Tank is covered in saran wrap so they can develop properly :-D


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## 305Betta (Jul 30, 2014)

Woot! What a nice pair! Gonna follow this


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## MameJenny (Jun 11, 2012)

Ooh, definitely following. You might hear more from me in 3-4 months, lol.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, I hope so Mame!

I have no idea if they're eating at all or not but the snails will get the worms if the fry don't. It's a real long tank and so I just hope they learn quick that I feed at one end of the tank since it's hard to reach the other side of it.

Also I've noticed that a lot of the fry really like to stare at their reflection in the thermometer lol! Just like their older counterparts!


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

How exciting! They are a beautiful pair. I'm just gonna lurk in the background and attempt to talk another tank into the house. lol


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

right^^xD


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

Cannot wait for pictures of the babies <3 This will be a beautiful spawn <3


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well it's going to be a while until I can actually get pictures of the little buggers but they're all doing well! Small water change today and put in microworms, they're eating well!!

We lost the mother, Silhouette, I suspect she was too stressed out with the breeding as she was young.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

awee I'm sorryxc


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

So sorry about the loss 
At least you have her babies, and there is bound to be one that looks like her. She really was beautiful and mysterious looking, I loved the red eyes.


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## 305Betta (Jul 30, 2014)

Oh no! She was beautiful. Is that a normal thing? For the females to die after spawning?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It depends on the female, the age and how brutal the male can be I suppose. I'm certainly no expert in it but I've seen both dad's and mom's die randomly after spawning usually from stress.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Osiris just passed away this evening... :< I just got him home and he's already left me. I really don't understand v.v


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## 305Betta (Jul 30, 2014)

Omg. What a tragedy.... At least u have a whole spawn of their legacy. I'm sure you guys will take good care of them


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks 305, let's just hope I don't screw anything up any more  I have a terrible feeling it's the 20 long that is the issue, though the fish in there right now are still thriving.

Fry are well, eating their microworms. Did another small turkey baster change.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Oh, no, not Osiris too. ): But at least you guys have their beautiful babies. I doubt you screwed anything up, Lil. It sounds like a run of bad luck, this hobby has tremendous ups and downs.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I know it does but this is the worst down I've had since my sorority, it's been a year since then, I hope this doesn't happen every year :-/


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I really hope their babies resemble them. I really want an Osiris Jr now :<


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You'll be the first to know Luci


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

so sorry about Osiris , hopefully the bushel of babies look like little clones.
So I guess this happens a lot while breeding huh? On Matt's spawns the parents seemed to die often.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I guess so. I'm sure it depends on ages and such. Osiris came from Thailand a year ago so he was about a year and a half, that's a little less than average for Thailand bettas as far as I know.


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm very sorry to hear about Osiris. Hopefully they're be some nice looking sons out of his spawn.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

SDOFIJEORJFDDLKj

You know, some days I really hate this hobby.

I found a single Hydra in my fry tank today. Thankfully all I see is one but it's already stung one of the fry who was sort of trying to move but couldn't really control himself well. DAMNIT. I don't even know where they might have come from! Nothing new has been added to the tank, the plants that are in there have been in there for a month now and came from my other tanks, literally nothing new has been introduced except for my moon tunnel thingy from walmart which I should probably take out the decor in there that I used for Silhouette to hide in. Literally nothing, I am absolutely ticked off at this.

When I first saw it I had no idea what it was but somehow I just knew, I knew it had to be Hydra. I'd never looked up pictures before but knew about it from people's accounts, I knew it wasn't any normal planaria, copepod or amphipod. It looks like a tiny anemone and I'm just so mad at this.

Dispite this, the fry seem to be doing well other than that poor paralyzed one. I don't know if the effects ever wear off from a sting but I'll let him do his thing unless someone tells me otherwise or if I find more info about it online.

I may have some fry pics, I've got to look at what my camera has though.


UGGGG.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, I guess having Hydra isn't THAT bad but it was still very disturbing to see and with my recent deaths of fish, it was just unnerving and frustrating.

Here's the little devil, I was able to suck it out with the water change, I just hope not to find more :-( he could have come from oak leaves I suppose but I guess they hang out more on fine leaved plants and there are water sprite babies in there which means I probably have Hydra in my other tanks too....sigh.



This was the fry that was stung, he did end up dying so I took him out.


Well they're big enough that my camera, as sucky as it is, can pick up on them at least! They are officially a week and two days old.


And yes, I do have lots of algae in the tank because it's in the window practically, it only gets direct morning sun ~9:00 am so it's not an issue for heating. But the snails like to eat it and I think it's helping to keep my water quality decent so I'm relatively fine with it. However, I think I'll block the far end so I don't get SO much algae at least.



Snail! lol


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Awwah!!! It's all eyes!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well good news is I haven't seen any more hydra. I've only had one other dead fry that I've seen at least but both of my Ramshorn snails died which was strange. I stink at keeping snails alive anyway so I'm not going to bother putting more in, the fry do a good enough job eating all the worms I give them anyway so I don't think it will be too much of an issue.

Tomorrow they are two weeks old!!

They're getting their tails in already, it's amazing how quick they can grow up!

I'm exhausted from Band Camp all this week so I don't know if I'll be able to get more pictures in or not but I'll try tonight if we're not held up until 9 at night. Yesterday we got out wicked early at 7:40, we were all shocked lol. But we're smaller in size, last year we were a 135 members, this year I think we're only a 110 or 115 something like that. But we sound good, so far so good with teaching the newbies all the moves and stuff. Anyway, sorry to go off track but that's why I haven't been posting too much this week, next week is first week of college so I doubt I'll have any good pictures for a while but I'll try to pop in when I'm not busy to let you all know what's going on!! :-D

Oh and I put in my sponge filter last night to keep the water circulated and the tank cycled since it came from my cycled 20 :-D


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## 305Betta (Jul 30, 2014)

Sweet! What instrument do you play? I played the sax for 8 years all through middle and high school I've been playing the bass now for 4 years. I remember band camp. Used to hate it. (It gets way too hot out here to be marching all day)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Nice! Yeah I play Tenor! I've played a million instruments through middle school and high school though, started on flute, went to trumpet when it was needed, then Alto, then baritone horn and then finally Tenor lol. I've been playing Tenor through the five years of college here and yes, Band Camp is horribly hot. Today it's wicked humid out and I'm actually very thankful that I have to work in the morning, then I join everyone for lunch at 12, and then we do sectionals indoors from 1-4, then dinner 5-6 and outdoors again for drill 6-9 which isn't too bad once that sun goes down. ;-)

This summer has been wicked cool as far as temperatures go but of course, that wasn't going to hold out for Band camp, we don't have that kind of luck XD And apparently our Football team REALLY sucks this year, we've sucked in the past but this year takes the cake--but who care's about football? The band ALWAYS wins! haha XD


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

I love how they have giant eyes xD
I swear, whenever I see betta fry, I just want to squish em :3


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I so totally agree Alaura. ITS SO CUTE!!!


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## DatBetta (Nov 14, 2013)

Folllowing! Gl with the fry and sorry about the parents and that pesky hydra!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The eyes really aren't that big, they may look like it but they're actually pretty small, their stomach and other organs are much bigger.

Fry were still alive and well this morning when I left for Camp, no other dead ones yet. I think I still have at least 70-80, can't actually count though since they sort of sit everywhere and I can't see the whole tank comfortably anyway at where it sits.

Still alternating Microworms and Banana Worms and will do that for a while.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Sounds like things are going great! You should try hatching some bbs for them sometime, they love it and it's great nutrition. More work but a bit more fun than worms.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah....I'll get that eventually. Is it possible to get by with BBS or is it something I really should look into getting? I just get so confused with all the directions but if I write it down and write it out, I should be able to figure it out I think.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It's definitely possible, I don't use it much but I'm sure the vast majority of (decent) breeders will tell you that it's definitely a good thing when fed in moderation (too much causes sbd). It's pretty easy, just get a container of some sort, stick an airline in there, and then add salt water and a bit of the brine shrimp cysts/eggs. Keep it warm. 

If you can get them to a size where they'll take decaps bbs (order the dry powder online somewhere) on worms alone, that's awesome and you can start to vary the diet after that. That's pretty much what I do. 

With a worm heavy diet, just make sure you're cleaning the bottom a lot, or you risk ending up with missing ventrals. I've never had a problem with that and I use mainly the worms, but I have tons of snails and siphon off the bottom.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay thanks. Yeah I have the Decaps that came with the worms and also have APR so I think I'll just try it with just the worms and siphon daily once band camp is done. UGGG, one more day, one more day, one more day, one more day.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't really know what's going on with the fry, maybe I haven't done enough water changes or something? But, well I haven't officially counted or anything but I know my numbers have severely decreased from the original 80-90 fry. Some death is always natural but too much and it raises red flags :-/

Most of the reason I wanted to get this spawn done earlier in the summer was because of this last week, Band Camp with a spawn on top of it is not fun. Most of the nights I had to stay up late to do a small change on the tank, It was only about a gallon a night or so but I guess it just wasn't enough. I still have plenty of fry but it's really difficult to tell between the dead fry and the ones still alive unless I see them breathing >.<

But I just did a 40% water change, I would have done more if my arm wasn't killing from holding up my ridiculously heavy Tenor all week lol. But the water is dripping in currently as I type. I did get some pictures for your viewing pleasure:

Sorry this one is blurry but they've got tails! They got them last week though lol



This is one of my biggest fry and he just sort of bumbles around the tank. However that red on him is worrying me, he just chills on top so I'm worried about him, there is another that is close in size to him too.



That same fry later in the day, a smaller one behind him


Fry was eating


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

I heard that if there are red dots on their heads, or red marble like markings, then that means they could have some sort of infection, forget what its called, but I saw it happen with another spawn.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I know about that, it would be on top of their head though. This is where his gills are, more like ammonia burns which I'm not putting past. I haven't actually checked the parameters of the tank though.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm so sorry guys--mostly I'm very sorry to Lucillia for letting you down. None of the fry survived. I don't think I did enough larger water changes to begin with and the ammonia just built up and burnt them. At least that's what I feel happened. When tested it only came up to .25-.50 ppm ammonia but I know that is deadly to fry. I was even using Prime to help combat it through the day but it didn't work in the end.

I want to try my HMPK pair and though it saddened me to see all the dead fry, at least I know now and hopefully can correct the mistake in the future.

Real sorry for those who wanted the fry :-/


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Awww, I am so sad to hear that, Lilnaugrim. How heartbreaking for you. :-(


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## Alaura123 (Jul 4, 2014)

So sorry that had to happen


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Very sad to hear about the fry, Lil. *hugs*


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm so sorry lil  *gathers everyone around and hugs* We all hope you do well with your next spawn


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## BettaLover1313 (Apr 15, 2013)

Very sorry that that happened, lil.


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## 305Betta (Jul 30, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear that lil... Better luck next time!


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