# Will a tank cycle with a filter with really low flow?



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

For example, will a tank with 5 gallons of water in it, with a betta (no live plants) cycle with the water going through the filter at, say, 10 gph?


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Yes. As far as I know the strength of the flow has nothing to do with the cycling process.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You can cycle without aa filter. If you really want extra cycling add semi aquatic plants to filter.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> Yes. As far as I know the strength of the flow has nothing to do with the cycling process.


Okay cool. Why do some people reccommend that the water in the tank go through the filter a certain amount of times an hour though?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The main limiting factor is food they get.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

The gph, gallons per hour, is the amount of water processed through the filter each hour. This is important because the filter is where 90% of your BB is & is what processes your ammonia/nitrites. If the filter doesn't have enough GPH then you'll have water quality issues. Hope that makes sense.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Still live plants really do help. Adding pothos/peace lilie/lucky bamboo are not limited but CO2 and can work faster.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> The gph, gallons per hour, is the amount of water processed through the filter each hour. This is important because the filter is where 90% of your BB is & is what processes your ammonia/nitrites. If the filter doesn't have enough GPH then you'll have water quality issues. Hope that makes sense.


It does make sense, but you said the flow has nothing to do with cycling /:


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Still live plants really do help. Adding pothos/peace lilie/lucky bamboo are not limited but CO2 and can work faster.


Thank you, but in this situation I want to know about a tank without live plants


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

The flow & cycling are two different things or at least to me they are.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> The flow & cycling are two different things or at least to me they are.


Do you think my hypothetical situation is enough to take care of the bioload?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Bettas have a small Bioload. If you you want extra filtering ideas check out my filter plant thread.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

Yes. I have the filters on my 3 10g & 5.5 tanks baffled considerably with sponge in the intake arm & I have no water issues.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I dont even need a filter.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> Yes. I have the filters on my 3 10g & 5.5 tanks baffled considerably with sponge in the intake arm & I have no water issues.


Oh! Lol never thought of putting sponge in the intake arm! So your flow is just like a drip huh?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

My filter in my twenty has 4 stages it used to be 3 but added one. My ten gallon came with one stage and I added another stage.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

more than a drip but considerably less than full force, its a VERY low flow. It was down to a little more than a drip when I first did it but I thought that was too low so I adjusted the sponge. If I could upload from my iPhone I'd post a video but I think than can only be done on a computer.


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## mahi (Jul 20, 2012)

I think it is recommended to have a flow rate that cycles the tank volume 4 times per hour. 

I think if you have lots of plants and a low bioload, you might get away with less. 

You could always try it and see if you can get it cycled or stable. I would probably test the water every day for a couple of months, to see if I could trust the filter...


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Live plants can make up for almost anything.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> more than a drip but considerably less than full force, its a VERY low flow. It was down to a little more than a drip when I first did it but I thought that was too low so I adjusted the sponge. If I could upload from my iPhone I'd post a video but I think than can only be done on a computer.


If you could figure out how to post a video that would be great. Either way thanks for your help


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You could make up by using a 3 stage filter.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

OK hopefully this works. This is a video of my 5.5g tank. You can see there's not much current & my little guy has no problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DNhBhIoSI


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> OK hopefully this works. This is a video of my 5.5g tank. You can see there's not much current & my little guy has no problem.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DNhBhIoSI


Thanks! Yeah that's about how my filter is too...I want to do an experiment where I have the filter output fill up a 1 gallon bucket and time it.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Some of those items look a little sharp.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Some of those items look a little sharp.


Which item? I have that same barrel thing and my betta loves it.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The items at the bottom.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Thanks! Yeah that's about how my filter is too...I want to do an experiment where I have the filter output fill up a 1 gallon bucket and time it.


Interesting, let me know how that goes.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> The items at the bottom.


I have no sharp objects in my tanks so I don't know what you're specifically referring to.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

shellieca said:


> I have no sharp objects in my tanks so I don't know what you're specifically referring to.


Yeah, like I said I have that same barrel thing and it's fine. I looked at shellieca's profile and it looks like you are bullying her. Please leave her alone Choclate.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

It's the size of the bacteria colony balanced with the amount of food (ammonia/nitrite) you can "flow" over them. 

With a small colony, use high flow. If you want low flow, develop a large colony in a large sponge.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Yeah, like I said I have that same barrel thing and it's fine. I looked at shellieca's profile and it looks like you are bullying her. Please leave her alone Choclate.


I am not bullying her. I am scared that her fish will get there scales ripped off or eaton.


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## RandyTheBettaFish (Jul 11, 2012)

Chocolate you are bullying Shellieca. It's against the rules, so stop.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> It's the size of the bacteria colony balanced with the amount of food (ammonia/nitrite) you can "flow" over them.
> 
> With a small colony, use high flow. If you want low flow, develop a large colony in a large sponge.


So the more surface area in the media, the less flow is needed?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

finnfinnfriend said:


> So the more surface area in the media, the less flow is needed?


Exactly.


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I am not bullying her. I am scared that her fish will get there scales ripped off or eaton.


Chocolate, I understand you're concern & it is appreciated. I know the risk of having the CAE's; that is why I am very diligent about keeping an eye on what is happening within my tank. You're not bullying, not what I consider to be bullying, but you don't have to keep repeating something when I've said I understand & am fully aware of the risk.

Everyone,
Sorry, to hijack the thread for this. Thank you for speaking up on my behalf.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

@Hallyx: Thanks!

@shellieca: It's totally fine. It's just in my nature to stand up for justice lol. Sorry if I stuck my nose in where it didn't belong.


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## JAGalletta (Oct 24, 2012)

If you think about it:

No sponge = limited surface area of filter media for bacterial growth = high flow is required

With sponge = more surface area for bacteria = lower flow over filter media is required

With a lot of sponge = a ton of surface area for bacteria to grow = very low flow over a large amount of bacteria to keep ammonia/nitrites processed.


Using a sponge to reduce water flow seems to be a direct relationship that takes care of itself, i.e. the size of the sponge will slow down your flow in a proper amount to maintain the cycle while providing more surface area for you BB.

Think of an air powered sponge filter: Large sponge, low flow created by rising air bubbles, large surface area for BB to process waste. 
Like this:


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

shellieca said:


> Chocolate, I understand you're concern & it is appreciated. I know the risk of having the CAE's; that is why I am very diligent about keeping an eye on what is happening within my tank. You're not bullying, not what I consider to be bullying, but you don't have to keep repeating something when I've said I understand & am fully aware of the risk.
> 
> Everyone,
> Sorry, to hijack the thread for this. Thank you for speaking up on my behalf.


 Okay I hope they do well the CAEs in your picture are adorible.


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