# Anyone use sand?



## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Does anyone use sand in their planted tank?

Long story short, I had red eco-complete with peace river gravel on top. I had to tear down my tank (54 gallon) and clean it (that's the long story). I tried, but there was no way to keep the 2 substrates separate, so they are now mixed together in a 5 gallon bucket. It looks like vomit. I can't put this back into my tank.

I am thinking of either:


Using black diamond blasting sand - I can get a 50lb bag for like $8. Cheap! But I have heard sand sucks.
Buying a bag of red floramax and mixing it into the vomit mixture - it's the same color as the eco-complete, so it might dilute the vomit look by spreading the color out a little better.
Some other option that someone will suggest (I can't do dirt. I tried it and I hated it).
I should add that I have root tabs and good ferts, so I don't strictly NEED nutrients in the substrate, but I may get lazy and not want to dose ferts for the rest of my life.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Did you do dirt on top and sand on top? That's what I do, I use Miracle Gro Organics Choice Potting Mix and there's practically no rinsing or nothing, just right into a dry tank. Take out the larger mulch chips and then sand on top of that. I just did my 20 long that way and there's no dirty water at all. When you fill up a tank, lay paper towel down on the substrate and make sure it over laps and then you can just pour the water into the tank without dirtying up the tank! Works like a charm every time I do it! And then the towel rises with the water generally unless stuck and you just take it out after you're all done ^_^

I used the Miracle Gro and PetCo black sand over top since I liked the softer it look it had over Black Diamon blasting sand which is actually rich in some minerals good for your plants! I've read things about it where people use it almost as an enhanced substrate like Eco Complete so you could use just the sand and a few root tabs and be set for the most part. Sand really isn't that much of a pain, things do get trapped in it since you can't dig down in it like gravel when you siphon. When you do siphon hold the siphon just a few cm's over the sand and move in a circular motion to kick up the detritus and stuff and then you can suck it up with the siphon; not really that hard honestly.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I did whole foods brand organic potting soil with fine gravel over it, and I just could not get the tank filled up without creating a dirt cloud. I tried a plate, a plastic bag with holes cut in, and also literally spooning the water in with a tablespoon. I immediately gave up and just took the tank outside and hosed it out, which is kind of my track record...maybe not a good quality to have.

So now I'm afraid of trying dirt in this gigantic awkward tank. It's a corner tank, so it's super deep and like hell to try to clean out. I suppose I could try the paper towel method in my 5G tank first before taking the plunge into the 54 gallon tank. I know it's the best way to grow plants. However, I'm fickle and like to move plants around like 1,000 times before I get them settled in their forever spot. 

Maybe I'll try sand. I don't know. I was thinking of getting some cories, so they would be pleased by sand I'm sure.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, it's much more difficult with gravel over top, if you do sand it's much easier, trust me! Also the paper towel trick is by far superior over plates! And yeah, it would be easier if you wanted to experiment in smaller tanks first just so you get the hang of it ^_^ But I was able to pour straight into the tank with the paper towel over it and no harm done! Of course I wouldn't like tip the bucket upside down and let it splash in but just the normal flow of water did no harm 

And you can still move plants around, some dirt may come up but settles quickly when you don't have a ton of it floating around. So far so good on my NPT and I've moved things around quite a bit, obviously just don't go tossing the sand around and you'll be just fine ^_^ And yes, your cories would be extremely appreciative of sand! :-D


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I use a python for water changes in the big tank, so I can control the flow with just the faucet and put it on a trickle. I might give it a whirl. Thanks for the info  I don't know why I agonize over every little decision like this.


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## jeaninel (Aug 24, 2007)

If you want cories you might want to check into the blasting sand as I hsve heard it is sharp and not good for bottom dwellers. I use playsand in four of my tanks and love it. Just need to rinse it really well before using it but well worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No worries! I've been agonizing over the stocking list of my 29 for around three months now >.< that and the plant stocking list :roll: lol


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Hmm. Thanks jeaninel. I will look into that.

I am agonizing over the stocking of this stupid 54 gallon tank too. I have an LFS who keeps male bettas in all of their peaceful community tanks, so part of me wants to get one of their males and just scoop up the school of fish they're already with. No quarantining. I know they'll get along (probably). But then part of me wants a sorority. But then part of me thinks I have 3 bettas already so why put myself through the worry of problems with a sorority...

I think I definitely want some cories because they are adorable as all get-out, and my daughter will love them. And I like harlequin rasboras. And glo-tetras. And guppies. And glofish. And I have my eye on a peacock gudgeon. And then this LFS has a tank of bright gold mountain minnows that are super cute. And the I also like gouramis. And everything else I look at. It's killing me. I need to focus on substrate first. Then plants. Then cycling. Then stocking. In that order. But it's hard to prioritize!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

lilnaugrim - where do you get your plants from? I found a good ebay seller that others have had a good experience with, and I think I'm going to order from them. King..something. I have my list all picked out, and they let me customize their pre-set plant package. I have no idea if what I'm ordering will fill my tank, as I have no ability to judge things like that. But it's a nice big package for not a bad price. I was going to order from bamaplants.com, but they are sold out of so much that I want.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I get mine from http://shop.plantedaquariumscentral.com/ she's got some pretty fair prices and is a peach to work with! I'm getting my order in today or tomorrow! Super excited! This will be the fourth time I've ordered from her and she never disappoints! Always sends a little extra too ^_^


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks!


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Black diamond is fine for cories, I have several types of cories and yah no issues, when cories have barbel issues 95% of the time is is a water quality issue not a substrate issue,


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## AudaxViator (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm using a black aquarium sand cap for my very first NPT. Organic potting soil (peat free!) on the bottom. The nice thing about sand is that when you plant things the sand fills the indent you are making very quickly so that almost no dirt will get kicked up. I've rearranged things a couple times and didn't get much dirt in the water because the sand sinks in with the plant instead of just shifting around like gravel (presumably) would.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Okay so say I am going to venture and do soil with a sand cap.

Can you tell me how much of each you used in what size tank? My tank is a 54 gallon, but it's a corner tank, so it has a relatively small footprint for its volume. It's about 380 square inches - where your average 55 gallon tank is 625 square inches. I should only need about the same amount of substrate as for a 20 gallon long tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I used roughly 1 and a half bags of the Miracle Gro Organics Choice, the 8 qt. bag which is relatively small but I got around 2 inches even with just 12-14 qt's then if it's 1 and a half bags. Sorry, that's confusing >.<


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

That's thoroughly confusing, yes.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My bad.

1 bag = 8 quarts

2 bags = 16 quarts

so I only used 1 and a half bags of the Miracle Gro, so roughly I used 12 quarts of soil for 2 inches. In all, you should be fine with two 8 qt. bags which are only little less than 5 dollars each.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

You can also use pool filter sand, I've not done it, but I've read good reviews on it.  

Another thing, I LOVE Tricker for plant ordering. The things they send are HUGE...like water wisteria that is, I swear, a foot long.  They've got the best prices I've found online, the plants are super healthy and HUGE, and they have sales...which are awesome.  

www.tricker.com

Just another option!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks so much for the link! I love their prices!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Oh man I just spend $120 on plants! But that should fill my 55 gallon pretty well, yay! Now I just have to decide on substrate ASAP!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah >.< I just got my 110 dollars worth of plants in today too! So worth it though lol


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

LOL! I tend to purchase them in spurts...so that I don't look at the bottom line order and freak myself out, lol!
I'm just not patient enough to wait for things to grow in...I get caught up in wanting it to look good...right now...today...actually, yesterday, lol!  

Plus doing it in five tanks doesn't make it any better...never realized how LONG a 20g long tank was until I started putting plants in it, lol!  

But, so totally worth it when you go in after a couple of days and realize that it's all growing...and that just feels awesome.  
I have ONE pair of jeans and I buy my work scrubs off the clearance racks...I figure I can spend some money on my horses, dogs, and fish, lol!  

Post pictures of your tank when you get it all set up!! I LOVE looking at the planted tanks!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I have spent today talking myself out of doing dirt. I still can't decide. I'm filling up this tank TOMORROW, y'all. WHY can't I make a choice??


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Okay, if it helps, I just did dirt for the first time last night. First note, do NOT start this project at 11pm if you have to be at work at 7am...and you plan to sleep. Of course, this is probably a "duh" moment for most people...but apparently I'm just not that bright, lol!  

So, I watched some youtube videos, and the steps that ended up working fairly well for me:
Put down about an inch of dirt. Take out the large chunks and any wood peices, and smooth it out. 
Dampen the dirt with a shower of water, not enough to splash or displace the dirt, just a gentle shower to get it started. 
Put down a hefty layer of gravel, like at least an inch. 
(other's have rec'd to me to put down a thin layer of sand at this point between dirt and gravel, I will definitely try this next time)
Using either a python or a tube and pond filter pump, slowly, SLOWLY allow the water to go into the tank. The goal is to avoid stirring anything up or moving the gravel around. 
It's going to be cloudy. In the video, it was nice and clear...I was not that lucky.  
I filled the tank to about halfway full, put in my plants (which made it really cloudy, but there were several crypts so they needed fairly large holes in order to be sunk into the substrate which probably had quite a bit to do with it), and then drain. 
I ended up having to half-fill, and then drain, three times before I got to clear water. The fourth time I filled the tank there was just the slightest bit of cloudiness in the first few minutes, but then that was good to go after filling the rest of the tank.  

Overall, it wasn't too bad. I freaked out after the second water change because I was afraid I'd be changing water for hours, but after that third go-round it was good, so it wasn't too bad.  Just plan to devote a few hours to doing it, have a movie on or something.  

I used gravel because I tried sand once before and was very, very sorry. It would not ever clear up for me...but I know other people don't have any issues at all, particularly if they use the paper towel mothod (lay down paper towels as the tank fills to prevent cloudiness), so I'm just one person who had an issue.  

I hope that helps!!


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## AudaxViator (Feb 5, 2014)

Blue Fish said:


> I used gravel because I tried sand once before and was very, very sorry. It would not ever clear up for me...but I know other people don't have any issues at all, particularly if they use the paper towel mothod (lay down paper towels as the tank fills to prevent cloudiness), so I'm just one person who had an issue.


Hmmm I wonder why your sand made it cloudy. Did you rinse it out beforehand? Was it random play sand or pool filter/aquarium sand? I used black aquarium sand and it only started getting cloudy later because of tannins and a bacterial bloom. Oh also, did the gravel keep the soil down fairly well? I don't have experience with it but it seems like the soil could creep up because gravel can't compact as much as sand.

To givemethatfish: I think next time I do a tank I'm not going to use dirt. It's just too messy even with sand. I tried getting all the big chips out but there's still some coming up. And the soil I used came with little seed hulls that keep coming to the surface. Plus I think without a layer of dirt the substrate will be less thick and I won't have to poke it every week and worry about anaerobic bacteria gas pockets. I mean it looks fine but meh. I'm still experimenting with all this though and my tank has only been set up for a little over a month, so maybe in the long run I'll find dirt is better, who knows.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I decided not to do dirt in the 54 gallon. I bought a new bag of organic soil for my little 5.5 gallon to experiment on that one.

I ended up doing about an inch of Floramax topped with 2 inches of black diamond blasting sand. The sand looks really nice, and it was easy to put down in an even layer. And it was cleaner than I thought it would be. The floramax actually took more rinsing than the sand. Since the tank has a pretty small footprint, I ended up using just a full bag of floramax and about 2/3 of the 50lb bag of sand. Not bad. Now I just have to wait for my plants to arrive!!

Work in progress. Background is in, substrate is in. I just need to hook the heater to the filter, get my plants and driftwood in, and fill it up! Not the best picture because I can't find my real camera, and my 3 year old smeared hand lotion all over the front of the tank right before I took the picture. Thanks, kid.

I really want to paint the stand and the tank trim a nice glossy black, but that's a project for another time.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Floramax is actually an inert substrate so it really won't provide nutrients to your plants but it will support a larger root system because of the lava rocks in it. I have it in my two 13's and my 29 and yeah, that stuff is nasty dirty! My PetCo sand didn't even need to be washed it was so clean!


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I love floramax. It's relatively inexpensive and looks really nice. I have it in one of my 10g tanks, and the amazon swords REALLY take root in that stuff. I have root tabs and liquid ferts, so I'm not that worried about the nutrients. In fact, I spent about 2 hours on Saturday night making root tabs and clay tabs. I live a wild life.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, that's fantastic! Yeah, even my water wisteria roots extremely well in that stuff! It's unfortunate it doesn't have the regular nutrients that the plants need though but yeah, as long as you dose tabs and liquid the plants should grow just fine ^_^


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

AudaxViator said:


> Hmmm I wonder why your sand made it cloudy. Did you rinse it out beforehand? Was it random play sand or pool filter/aquarium sand? I used black aquarium sand and it only started getting cloudy later because of tannins and a bacterial bloom. Oh also, did the gravel keep the soil down fairly well? I don't have experience with it but it seems like the soil could creep up because gravel can't compact as much as sand.
> 
> To givemethatfish: I think next time I do a tank I'm not going to use dirt. It's just too messy even with sand. I tried getting all the big chips out but there's still some coming up. And the soil I used came with little seed hulls that keep coming to the surface. Plus I think without a layer of dirt the substrate will be less thick and I won't have to poke it every week and worry about anaerobic bacteria gas pockets. I mean it looks fine but meh. I'm still experimenting with all this though and my tank has only been set up for a little over a month, so maybe in the long run I'll find dirt is better, who knows.


First go round was regular play sand, not rinsed, and that was a disaster.  Second attempt was with rinsed pool filter sand, rinsed...but still the mess. I did not know about using the plate or the paper towels though, so that may have made a significant difference. 

As for the gravel, I wasn't sure about that either, but I found many, many videos on youtube from experienced aquarists who were using it, some even using pea gravel...and it worked, so I thought I'd give it a go.  

I've only done this one tank so far, the other four are still as-is, I'm waiting to see if this makes a significant difference in plant growth...and is worth it.  

Also, I believe trumpet snails can be used to aerate your soil if you don't want to poke.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Public and profuse thanks to Blue Fish for recommending Tricker.com for plants. They sent me HUGE healthy bunches of plants as well as a giant portion of a Joshua plant for free. I couldn't be happier with the quality and quantity. It's also below freezing here, and everything arrived nice and non-frozen with a little heat pack.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

givemethatfish said:


> I did whole foods brand organic potting soil with fine gravel over it, and I just could not get the tank filled up without creating a dirt cloud. I tried a plate, a plastic bag with holes cut in, and also literally spooning the water in with a tablespoon. I immediately gave up and just took the tank outside and hosed it out, which is kind of my track record...maybe not a good quality to have.
> 
> So now I'm afraid of trying dirt in this gigantic awkward tank. It's a corner tank, so it's super deep and like hell to try to clean out. I suppose I could try the paper towel method in my 5G tank first before taking the plunge into the 54 gallon tank. I know it's the best way to grow plants. However, I'm fickle and like to move plants around like 1,000 times before I get them settled in their forever spot.
> 
> Maybe I'll try sand. I don't know. I was thinking of getting some cories, so they would be pleased by sand I'm sure.


Haha That sounds exactly like what happened with my 55 gallon tank. I tried the whole NPT thing with the organic soil layer and sand on top... it was terrible. lol. The soil wouldn't stay underneath the sand. I was always getting gas bubbles coming up and it would shoot up a bunch of soil with it and the soil kept puffing up with air and I'd have to press it down and of course it made a huge mess with all the bubbles coming up. I made the mistake of having driftwood so it turned my water a green tea color and my parents were always commenting that it looked dirty. I also got overrun by hair algae. It was terrible, so after having it up for about 8 months I totally redid it. I threw out the soil and sand (it smelled like sulfur too. Eww). And I replaced the substrate with natural-colored gravel. It's been up for about 5 months now, and it still looks really nice. No algae or anything.
I'm attaching a picture of it from a couple weeks after I set it up.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Gorgeous tank. I love that big sword plant in the corner!


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks! :-D
The funny thing is that it's almost 5 months later and it pretty much looks the same. So of course you don't get a lot of growth when you use gravel, but it's ok with me. Although one of the anubias plants in the front (the left one) has grown a lot. About 3 new leaves in the past 5 months. It's my favorite plant.
The big sword was called an amazon sword, but so were those two smaller ones in the back. But they're totally different in size, obviously, but also in leaf shape. The sword on the right in the rocks is an Argentine sword.


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