# Concerning tail fin and tiny black spots



## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 3.7
Does it have a filter? Yes-- Input too strong, put plastic mesh over
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 80* Fahrenheit
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? n/a
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? A neirite snail and another snail, kind unknown-- popped up when I tried planting a betta bulb, along with annoying brown algae and stringy algae

Food:
What food brand do you use? New-life spectrum small fish formula, freeze dried bloodworms and brine shrimp, 
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried?
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Some days 5 pellets in the morning and night, others replacing five pellets with freeze-dried blood shrimp and blood worms-- have started soaking them recently

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every thursday
What percentage of water did you change? 1/4 to 1/3--- (this is probably what I should change) 
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Siphon
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? Changing currently from API betta water conditioner to Tetra betta safe

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water *before* the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 20
pH: 6.5
Hardness (GH): 60 (how can I change this?)
Alkalinity (KH): 40

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Noticed his mid fin was ragged a few days ago, noticed black spots today near his body (see pictures) For more pictures, I can link my instagram if its helpful
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Middle of fin appears ragged, some black spots (see pictures)
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Still very active
Is your Betta still eating? yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? making sure there's nothing sharp or rough in the tank
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? None, came from a reputable local aquarium supply shop
How long have you owned your Betta? Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Since January eighth. I recently did try to net him to get him out of his tank for a water change, but he really wasn't having it. I decided getting him out of the tank was more stress than leaving him in, not worth absolutely terrifying him. Pretty much back to his normal curious self now, but he cowered under the small anubias and didn't move when I tried to net him-- really don't want to do that again.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Are you sure he's not changing colors? That's what it looks like to me.

FWIW, it's best to embed photos instead of linking as many members are on devices which don't allow them to easily go from one site to another and back again. Also, there's no need to remove fish when doing water changes so you're doing a-okay.


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Sorry if I'm been overreacting to something completely normal. New Betta owner alert! 

The color change is probably because the light was positioned differently... or maybe you're right, he is a lot more peachy, both in color and character. 

I'm more concerned about the middle of his tail fin, it seems to have a sliver missing, and the edge of that area isn't that well defined by his white trim as it once was. That's what I'm the most worried about. Does he look ok? How do I embed photos, for future reference?


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

He looks ok but your water parameters are a bit off. Ammonia and nitrite should both be 0. You need to do a couple small water changes until you get them down.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Here's a good tutorial on how to cycle your tank. As sabrinah mentioned, Ammonia and Nitrites should be 0ppm and Nitrates under 15-20.

http://www.bettafish.com/30-betta-fish-care/507585-cycling-two-sentence-tutorial.html


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## cakes488 (Dec 2, 2015)

He could be biting himself. If you notice fins missing very quickly that is a sign of biting. Just keep the water super clean...stay on top of those parameters and you'll be alright.


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Did a whole lot of water changes yesterday (1/5, 1/4, and 1/3) and the ammonia levels didn't improve. Then today I realized that when I swirl the gravel, a whole bunch of dust comes up. I ended up having to take Jupiter out of the tank to make sure he didn't get hurt, and I went to swirl the gravel some more. I was really shocked how much stuff there was at the bottom, the water turned brown and almost black! My gravel bed's pretty deep, so that must've been why the levels were wonky. So I did a half water change, tested it, nope. Another one, tested it, nope. I did another one, and it should be better now... maybe my test tube is messing up the results with all the residue. I'll order a new one, I guess. 

The water in Jupiter's tank is still cloudy, but I can see the back panel so he should be okay. I'll probably go to the pet store tomorrow for new filter cartridges, and I recall that I saw some ammonia neutralizing filter additive... would it be a good idea to get that? The nitrate and nitrite levels are much better. 

Well, I sure did learn a lot today. Thanks everyone! :smile2: Daily water changes, here I come!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Get Seachem Prime water conditioner. Add at two drops per gallon. The AP Test measures Total Ammonia. Instead of a new kit get Seachem Ammonia Alert. It measures on the harmful NH3. I wouldn't have an aquarium without them. Reminds me, I need to get more.


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Ok, I'll do that. Thanks so much again! I'm guessing I should introduce the new conditioner gradually.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can use it immediately. No need to gradually introduce.


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Awesome! Thanks so much again!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You're most welcome. When I had constant Ammonia readings on the API test I bought a Seachem Ammonia Test *before* I found out about Ammonia Alert. The Seachem Ammonia Test is, IMO, complicated. Someone on the forum was worried the AA wasn't working because no Ammonia showed so she ran it over a bottle of pure Ammonia and it immediately started showing blue.


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## centaurii (Aug 31, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> You're most welcome. When I had constant Ammonia readings on the API test I bought a Seachem Ammonia Test *before* I found out about Ammonia Alert. The Seachem Ammonia Test is, IMO, complicated. Someone on the forum was worried the AA wasn't working because no Ammonia showed so she ran it over a bottle of pure Ammonia and it immediately started showing blue.
> 
> View attachment 873890


Wow! Where has this product been all my fishkeeping life?? Thanks for sharing!


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Wow! Looking on Amazon, it's so much cheaper than the one I have!


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

An update: My neirite snail has died. 

Jupiter's tail fin has gotten worse, and I'm really suspecting fin rot. It's ragged and has a black lining. To make matters worse, Jupiter ripped his tail fin clean in half, and I'm afraid that'll get infected too. I did some more extra water changes (three in fact) along with another gravel reduction, and the dirt and debris in there is very concerning. I'm upgrading him to a ten gallon with a sponge filter ASAP with sand, but I think that's barking up the wrong tree. I need to know what to do for fin rot and to make sure the wound in the dorsal fin doesn't get infected as well. 

I feel very upset with myself currently, and I can't help but think that my carelessness has caused his predicament. He was so beautiful when I got him, and now he is suffering in my care. I would greatly appreciate some aid, I will get some pictures up when I can, currently I need to calm down. 

Thank you very much for your help and guidance, I hope to hear from all of you soon.


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## Falcon (Jan 9, 2008)

When you tore the tank apart, you destroyed the nitrogen cycle. The cloudy water means the nitrogen cycle started over again. Next time don't tear the tank apart, use a gravel vacuum or I've been hearing the references of a turkey baster that works as well. You squeeze before placing in the water, stick it into the gravel and let it fill up and it sucks up all the junk that's trapped. I was a surprised when you started swirling the gravel which has most likely led to his current situation. Either it's the ammonia causing the tail to drop or he has a bacterial infection. You should test for ammonia to see how high it is. If you can get your hands on prime, that will detoxify the ammonia and nitrite defects. Or stress zyme, that one works. I get instant nitrate readings with that one and it will instantly cycle the tank. (tested and proves that's a good one to go with.) add in aquarium salt one table spoon per gallon. If you can drop the temp to 77 f, that will slow the bacterial infection down. Track down either kanaplex by sea chem or furan2. With furan2, it will destroy the nitrogen cycle. Having stress zyme on hand for after the treatment is done will make the tank fish friendly.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

^ Also, invest in a gravel vac to help clean the gravel.


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

It would help to post a picture and verify that it's fin rot before you start medicating. Bettas can bite their tails to shreds and tear them rather easily.


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

I didn't tear the tank apart, I left some gravel in there. I can still put back the gravel that I took out. I also only did partial water changes, so some of the bacteria is still in there. So it's normal to have the tank cloud when I stir up the gravel? I was worried that the gravel was catching all the ammonia, and the prime was masking it. I've already changed to prime, and have an ammonia Alert in the back filtration, which reads safe. Nitrites are zero, nitrates are still twenty after the water changes I did. 

Temperature-wise, I can unplug the heater, it's been warmer where I live now that it's spring. The heater is not adjustable.

What might still hint to fungus in the tank: one of my dwarf lilies died, sort of melted away under a black fuzziness. I'm suspecting this came from a betta bulb I purchased a month ago, which brought in a snail as I didn't think to bleach dip it. I'm a little confused about kanaplex, furan 2 and stress zyme? I'll look them up. 

Thank you very much everyone again, it's very distressing for me to see Jupiter in such a state. The first picture I've attached is of his poor topfin, and the raggedness of the tailfin is displayed. The second shows a black lining, however faint, on his tailfin. This part of him used to have a white trim. :crying: The third photo shows more raggedness, a chip of his tail was barely hanging on, I feel terrible for him. Is he in pain? It's difficult to judge if the wounded site is red, since his entire tailfin is that color. I'm remembering attachments aren't the best way to share pictures, I'm sorry I couldn't embed it in the post. 

Thank you very much everyone again, your guidance is very much appreciated. :notworthy: Thank you very much for the speedy replies as well.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Have you read this sticky? While he still looks to either be biting or have damage on his dorsal the sticky will give you ways to treat fin rot. 

"Fin biting will look rugged at times; sometimes little U shape bites are taken out of the fins. It will never look just simply split, that will be from some décor or plants. Fin biting will happen practically overnight or in a split second and most of the time you won't be around to see it happen."

http://www.bettafish.com/99-betta-f...s/346377-lets-talk-fin-rot-vs-fin-biting.html


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Sorry, I only read the fin biting section previously, I now read further, I promise! Based off of what I read, I'm doing as much as I can if it truly is fin rot. I can put in another dried leaf I ordered off of Amazon to get in some more tannins. 

Now for the questions. I organized them into a list of what I need to know. 
If I have to medicate the tank, what exactly should I do? 

Or rather should I just do daily 50% water changes? Is that worth the stress for Jupiter? 

Should I put the gravel I removed bacK? 

Would the overall issue with the tank get better if I upgraded him to a ten gallon, with a sponge filter and nothing unnatural, along with sand as a substrate? He's been hanging around the bottom more, I'm guessing because Jupiter's fins are weighing him down. 

Diet wise I feed NewLife Spectrum, along with freeze dried bloodworms and brine shrimp. Should I add some frozen daphnia, or just switch to frozen food altogether? 

Thank you very much everyone again!


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## antant26 (Jan 3, 2017)

Glad to say the issue resolved its self.  I got a python mini gravel vacuum, and it works much better than my aqueon one. Got some stress coat, so if anything happens to Jupiter's fins again, I have another lifeline in addition to the almond leaves. Jupiter is doing fine, and I set up his ten gallon upgrade with live plants, but it's still cycling. Thank you very much everyone for your help!


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

antant26 said:


> Glad to say the issue resolved its self.  I got a python mini gravel vacuum, and it works much better than my aqueon one. Got some stress coat, so if anything happens to Jupiter's fins again, I have another lifeline in addition to the almond leaves. Jupiter is doing fine, and I set up his ten gallon upgrade with live plants, but it's still cycling. Thank you very much everyone for your help!


I'm happy that Jupiter is doing better!

If you want to have something on hand for his fins I'd go with Stress Guard, not Stress Coat. Stress Guard has an antiseptic in it and is supposed to also help if they are stressed like when you have to move them, while Stress Coat is a water conditioner with some Aloe


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