# I'm a THIEF!!!



## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Hello all,

So, yesterday I had to go grocery shopping at Wal-Mart. Of course, I had to stop & look at the fish section & see if there were any interesting decorations or tanks. I also looked over at the actual fish to see if they carried bettas. To my surprise, there were no bettas in cups, so I just went to look at the fish tanks & viola! There was a betta in one of the fish tanks. He was in a tank with a pleco that was rotting at the bottom. The pleco was at least double the size of the betta. There were no plants or decor for the betta to hide in, so it was hiding in the corner behind the dead pleco to get away from the huge current they had going on in the tank. He's gills were working pretty hard & I think that was because he had a hard time getting to the top for air with the current. Plus, there was probably a lot of icky stuff in the water from the pleco. It had been dead for a while. Then, I looked through the rest of the tanks to make sure that there were no other bettas. There were not, at least not live ones. There was one dead one floating around & around in a tank with a bunch of glofish. 

Even though, with the passing of my Indigo, my bettas have come down to the manageable number of 4 (because that's all the tanks I have), I decided that I need to save this betta in with this dead pleco. I had recently taken all my bettas home from college during Thanksgiving break, but I still had fish food at my dorm & it was getting lonely not coming home from class to my fish. My boyfriend is going to kill him.

Anyway, I grabbed the cheapest heater, some water conditioner, a hidey-hole, a thermometer, & a 1.5 gallon pet keeper (that's the only size they had & I am absolutely broke, I really shouldn't have bought anything but food). I had some rocks in my dorm & a betta hammock I have added in as well.

Then, I couldn't find an employee near the fish department, so I went over to the electronics & asked some mouth-breathing kid to ask someone to come to the fish area. He did. I went back to wait. I waited 10 minutes & no one came, so I checked to see if the fish tanks were not locked. They weren't. I grabbed a fish bad & followed the instructions for getting the fish out for customers that was on the wall & proceeded to bag this poor betta. Once I got him in the bad, I put the bag into the pet kieeper I had. I finished my shopping & then went & through the self-checkout aisle & just scanned the pet keeper with the betta inside it. I stole this betta & got away with it! Serves them right, treating it that way. He would have been $7. Not much, but considering the conditions & that I'm broke anyways. As soon as I get my spare heater from home, I'm going to return this new heater & return the thermometer & get a new one. I don't need the new heater, so I'll get $15 back too & the thermometer is broken. I don't think the heater is working well anyways. 

So, here he is. I named him Tie-Dye. He's a male crowntail. He's kinda purple & orange. I think he's very pretty. His personality hasn't come out yet. He did eat for me today though. Twice. Four pellets. He likes his betta hammock. Doesn't move around a lot, but will if I tap the tank. I hope he settles in soon. 

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## riorider (Sep 15, 2013)

He is really cute!
I have the same problem with bettas. I am also in a dorm and have 3 right now looking to get another.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

What a Steal! Buahaha XD He is going to have a happy life with you. =)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't condone stealing but... I'm glad you took him. lol They didn't bother to send someone to help you out. It wasn't like you went there with the intention of stealing. lol He's going to be gorgeous when he gets all settled in his new home.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

He's actually a really gorgeous guy. Nice steal, lol.

Thief jokes aside, it's good someone like you found him and got him outta there. With the conditions he was in at the moment, who knows how much longer he'd have before Lady Grim snatched him up... or another person who didn't know what they were doing with the fish (ie. someone who doesn't know really how to care for bettas, thinks they're herbivores and whatever madness I've heard over the years...).


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## jayr232 (Oct 23, 2013)

You should call it real rescue xD


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

I can't consider saving a life stealing.! Snatched from the jaws of death, more like... He's just lovely and looks very grateful.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

riorider said:


> He is really cute!
> I have the same problem with bettas. I am also in a dorm and have 3 right now looking to get another.


Yeah. I had a 10 gallon, a 2.5 gallon, a 3 gallon, & a 1 gallon hospital tank in my dorm. I live in a apartment dorm thing, but I have my own individual room that's like 7 x 12 feet, so it's tiny in here. But I took everyone home over Thanksgiving. Now, I have a 1.5 gallon with this new guy. Maybe I can get him a bigger tank over Christmas. We'll see. Good luck finding another betta. 



Tree said:


> What a Steal! Buahaha XD He is going to have a happy life with you. =)


HA! That was so punny! Yeah. I hope he has a happy life with me. He seems more active today, so that's a good sign. But now he's not eating so well. I'm sure he's just getting used to his new home. He doesn't seem to be sick, so I got lucky there.



dramaqueen said:


> I don't condone stealing but... I'm glad you took him. lol They didn't bother to send someone to help you out. It wasn't like you went there with the intention of stealing. lol He's going to be gorgeous when he gets all settled in his new home.


Yeah, stealing is not something I would suggest or something I normally do. lol. But it was late, I was hungry, had homework to do & I was in a bad mood. No one wanted to come help me, so I helped myself. Plus, he was in horrid conditions. So, I have my actions justifiable.



BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> He's actually a really gorgeous guy. Nice steal, lol.
> 
> Thief jokes aside, it's good someone like you found him and got him outta there. With the conditions he was in at the moment, who knows how much longer he'd have before Lady Grim snatched him up... or another person who didn't know what they were doing with the fish (ie. someone who doesn't know really how to care for bettas, thinks they're herbivores and whatever madness I've heard over the years...).


Yeah. I'm glad I got him too. I'm lucky. He doesn't seem to be very affected by his living conditions. I don't know how long he was there. The poor other betta obviously had suffered a worse fate. But this guy is safe now & will not be suffering from lack of care or the improper care.



jayr232 said:


> You should call it real rescue xD


More like releasing a hostage! lol. 



2muttz said:


> I can't consider saving a life stealing.! Snatched from the jaws of death, more like... He's just lovely and looks very grateful.


Yes! I'm glad you understand! It would have been much worse for me to leave him there.



****Also, I just noticed all the typos in my post. They're not a problem except for the one that says "My boyfriend is gonna kill him." I meant he's gonna kill me. My boyfriend would never hurt my fish. Just so you all know. lol.****


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

DerangedUnicorn said:


> HA! That was so punny! Yeah. I hope he has a happy life with me. He seems more active today, so that's a good sign. But now he's not eating so well. I'm sure he's just getting used to his new home. He doesn't seem to be sick, so I got lucky there.



LOL, 

Awww I so hope he eats soon for ya. D=


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Well, he ate a pellet tonight. Tried the second & spit it out, so I think that's better than nothing. I think he's still adjusting. Thanks for the well wishes. & thanks everyone for your support/saying he's pretty!


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## twobettas (Nov 7, 2013)

Awww, poor little guy. So glad you've got him. While I'd normally say stealing is bad, I've seen the conditions for Wal-Mart bettas, so I say more power to anyone who gets a poor betta out of those hellish stores by any means possible.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

twobettas said:


> Awww, poor little guy. So glad you've got him. While I'd normally say stealing is bad, I've seen the conditions for Wal-Mart bettas, so I say more power to anyone who gets a poor betta out of those hellish stores by any means possible.


Thanks. He's not a poor little guy anymore! He's a warm little guy with a good home now. Yeah, stealing isn't good, but sometimes there's a greater good that trumps other morals.


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## ricepattyfish5 (Sep 22, 2013)

He is adorable!!! Huge props on saving his poor little body!!! I can tell he is in good hands now though!!!


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Thanks! Believe me, he's gonna be a spoiled betta, just like the rest of my bettas. He'll be surprised to have new tanks beside his when I go home for winter break.


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## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

He's really beautiful, good on you!

Can we get pics in a week or so? He's gonna be so pretty


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Bikeridinguckgirl14 said:


> He's really beautiful, good on you!
> 
> Can we get pics in a week or so? He's gonna be so pretty


Yeah, sure. No problem. If I don't get them on here by like next Friday, just post here & bug me. I have finals going on right now, so I'm busy & may forget. Thanks!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

So, are you going to use the heater until you get yours from home and then return it and claim it's never been used or is faulty to get your $$ back? And on top of that you admit you intentionally removed the fish from the store without paying for it?

Sorry, but shoplifting is shoplifting and it's what contributes to prices going up for the rest of us. I can't believe that you admit it or the rest of you condone it. What does that teach the kids on the forum? That stealing is acceptable if you do it in the name of "saving" a fish? Unbelievable.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> So, are you going to use the heater until you get yours from home and then return it and claim it's never been used or is faulty to get your $$ back? And on top of that you admit you intentionally removed the fish from the store without paying for it?
> 
> Sorry, but shoplifting is shoplifting and it's what contributes to prices going up for the rest of us. I can't believe that you admit it or the rest of you condone it. What does that teach the kids on the forum? That stealing is acceptable if you do it in the name of "saving" a fish? Unbelievable.


I am going to return the heater on the count of not needing it. I don't like it either. It's a sucky heater. That's a valid reason for returning something. Especially to walmart who will take anything back. 

Second of all, walmart wouldn't have sold that fish anyway. It would have died, making prices go up anyways cuz they can't keep them alive. Maybe they should stop selling fish all together if they're not making money. I don't condone stealing. I've said that. Employees didn't want to help. I bought everything else. I would have ask the fish for free anyways & complained & gave them a hard time about fish. 

It's not like I was thinking these things. I was concerned about a fish. I wasn't trying to raise prices. You've never broken the law? Speeding? Rolling through a stop sign? 


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

Wow, lots of gray areas here, very little black and white....

First, if we're going to talk about morals and ethics, let's look at Walmart. Pretty much the outfit responsible for singlehandedly bringing down the US manufacturing market and good working class jobs... While the Waltons, one of the richest families on earth, gets richer and richer

Also the corporation that pays its employees so poorly and gives them such pitifull benefits that the stores have information available on how they can supplement their pay with state aid... sounds like Walmart has no issue with "stealing" from the US taxpayers who pay for that aid... all while the Waltons, one of the richest families on earth, gets richer and richer..... (you start to get the picture)

It is likely that OP would have gotten that ailing little fish for free if a manager had actually taken the time to respond to her request... especially when she indicated that she would be buying all the necessary accessories... (although I'm not sure about the heater issue and won't comment on it...)

This is really an ongoing argument in the animal welfare community. Are animals property? Is stealing an animal to save it's life a real crime? It brings back to me the story from a few years ago about the woman from "Dogs deserve better" who stole a dog out of a yard. The dog was sick, was chained to a stake with no food, water, or shelter from the elements. She tried to contact the owner several times without success (much like the OP here). Finally she just went in and took the poor creature and got it to a vet. THEN the owner responded and had her arrested. I remember seeing photos of the day of her trial. Sadly, dumb senior moment, I don't remember the outcome, but I DO remember seeing hundreds of folks, from all over the country , on the courthouse grounds, there to support her.

Sometimes people have to challenge and be defiant of bad laws to get them to change. ( And, Walmart charging $$ for live animals, most of which they just let die, in the hopes of making a few bucks on accessories, is , IMHO, a bad law.) If we didn't sometimes {challenge and defy} slavery would still be legal....heck, we'd still be paying tributes to the queen of England!! 

And, let's give the kids and teens on here some credit! I'll bet my next pension check (yes, I'm THAT old) that each and every one of them knows the difference between what the OP did and filling their pockets with unpaid for make-up, cds, etc.etc....

Okay, sorry to ramble. just my humble opinions, I'm sure there's many others......


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

No matter how you try to rationalize it, you shoplifted. That is a crime. Period. What anyone else has done or will do is irrelevant. And to compare stealing (which can lead to jail time) to rolling through a stop sign or speeding is a bit disingenuous.

And that's all I have to stay about that. Have a good day.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> No matter how you try to rationalize it, you shoplifted. That is a crime. Period. What anyone else has done or will do is irrelevant. And to compare stealing (which can lead to jail time) to rolling through a stop sign or speeding is a bit disingenuous.
> 
> And that's all I have to stay about that. Have a good day.


Agreed on all points of both posts. Rationalizing it only opens the door wider for next time.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> And that's all I have to stay about that. Have a good day.


Good. I hope you feel better. You have a nice day as well. 




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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

2muttz said:


> Wow, lots of gray areas here, very little black and white....
> 
> First, if we're going to talk about morals and ethics, let's look at Walmart. Pretty much the outfit responsible for singlehandedly bringing down the US manufacturing market and good working class jobs... While the Waltons, one of the richest families on earth, gets richer and richer
> 
> ...


Yes. It all depends on one's moral compass. 

People are going to disagree. I get it. It's not something I plan to do again. No excuses, but lately I'm not in my usual frame of mind. Stress from finals, dad losing his job of 14 years. I was in the hospital for two weeks, so school falling behind. I may have committed a petty crime, which is wrong. But there are also much heavier issues out there. I don't feel like arguing in a forum is the solution to any of it. You guys are right about the heater. I'll keep it as a back up to the back up. It just is keeping the temp at 74 instead of the 78 +/- 2, but that's better than no heater 

I didn't post this to cause an uproar. Just sharing. Whether it's right or wrong is very grey like you said. 

I'm sorry for rattling off at the mouth with previous post. But just a side note, I bought a pie at Walmart the other day & it got left there, probably in the bag spinner thing. I went back to get it after I had already been home & they wouldn't give it to me.  it was my birthday. So, I believe walmart actually got more money out of me for the pie than they lost for the fish. 

But that still doesn't make shoplifting ok. Just pointing out a funny way of how life seems to balance out. 


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## redthebetta (Aug 11, 2013)

You know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and congratulate you. You should have/would have gotten the betta for free anyway. Maybe when you have more money, overpay a cashier by a few dollars. Just to clear your conscience. If I was in your position, I would have done the same thing. Also, I love his colours! :nicefish:


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## Tanya1983 (Dec 3, 2013)

Love the colors on him.

I did something similar with a baby rat once. I am not a thief by any means....but, I was in a small mom and pop style pet store. There was a large terrarium with a red tailed boa in it, and this woman opens the screen lid and tosses in this tiny baby dumbo rat.
I already participated in rat rescue, pulling them from shelters and rehoming them. I loved rats and though I know snakes have to eat, it doesn't mean I have to like it. So anyhoo...the woman leaves the reptile area. There are no cameras or other staff around. I open this tank, reach in and this baby rat crawls up my arm because it knows it's life is in danger. I slipped him into my hoodie pocket where he curled into a quiet little ball. I purchased my crickets for my pet lizards, and left the store.
Went shopping and to an italian restaurant with that little guy tucked into my pocket. Even fed him some garlic bread while he was in there.
I am not proud that I stole, but I don't regret it.


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## BettaLover223 (Feb 20, 2012)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> So, are you going to use the heater until you get yours from home and then return it and claim it's never been used or is faulty to get your $$ back? And on top of that you admit you intentionally removed the fish from the store without paying for it?
> 
> Sorry, but shoplifting is shoplifting and it's what contributes to prices going up for the rest of us. I can't believe that you admit it or the rest of you condone it. What does that teach the kids on the forum? That stealing is acceptable if you do it in the name of "saving" a fish? Unbelievable.


Okay, first off I don't think its going to raise the price for once single fish that THEY neglected to care for. Second, its not her fault that the cashier isn't paying attention to what they are doing and not ringing up certain things so if anyone is to blame in this situation, its the cashier for not doing their job right. Personally, I'm offended by how you wrote this, it seems like you are talking down to people. If you don't like how people do things or what they say, don't be rude about it and just ignore them. I thought this forum was to help people and their fish, not to criticize and bash. So, that's all I'm going to say. And I say all the power to her for rescuing an animal in its time of need


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## BettaLover223 (Feb 20, 2012)

Tanya1983 said:


> Love the colors on him.
> 
> I did something similar with a baby rat once. I am not a thief by any means....but, I was in a small mom and pop style pet store. There was a large terrarium with a red tailed boa in it, and this woman opens the screen lid and tosses in this tiny baby dumbo rat.
> I already participated in rat rescue, pulling them from shelters and rehoming them. I loved rats and though I know snakes have to eat, it doesn't mean I have to like it. So anyhoo...the woman leaves the reptile area. There are no cameras or other staff around. I open this tank, reach in and this baby rat crawls up my arm because it knows it's life is in danger. I slipped him into my hoodie pocket where he curled into a quiet little ball. I purchased my crickets for my pet lizards, and left the store.
> ...


That is awesome! I am grateful that you saved that rat. Technically if you are going to feed a snake live, you need to stay and make sure that the snake eats it because if it doesn't, the animals are going to end up hurt like the mouse munching/biting on the snake. Personally, it makes me cry to see people feed live, though I do understand that its the circle of life and is more nutritious for the snake. I used to have two rats, so I might be biased in this situation too XD


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## twobettas (Nov 7, 2013)

I suppose it comes down to the "Is it okay to steal bread to feed your family?" argument, but I for one can't have any sympathy for Wal-Mart in this instance. If it's anything like the one by me, a stolen betta won't make a bit of different in jacking up prices because of loss. They never sell any of their bettas; the poor things die and rot and get thrown away. I'll bet if you asked the betta, he'd say, "Steal me any time!"
Full disclosure: I was once part of a humane society seizure in which we were only supposed to take starving horses, for which we had a court order. Somehow a starving kitten just happened to end up under my jacket and, eventually, in a loving home far from that hell farm.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

twobettas said:


> I suppose it comes down to the "Is it okay to steal bread to feed your family?" argument.


Are you really equating stealing a betta to stealing to providing sustenance for ones family?! Sorry but that's just absurd, and probably offensive to anyone facing that dilemma. People NEED to eat. They DON'T need bettas.


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## BettaLover223 (Feb 20, 2012)

jaysee said:


> Are you really equating stealing a betta to stealing to providing sustenance for ones family?! Sorry but that's just absurd, and probably offensive to anyone facing that dilemma. People NEED to eat. They DON'T need bettas.


She's using that as an example good lord. Don't call people offensive, if you are going to offend.


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## BettaLover223 (Feb 20, 2012)

twobettas said:


> I suppose it comes down to the "Is it okay to steal bread to feed your family?" argument, but I for one can't have any sympathy for Wal-Mart in this instance. If it's anything like the one by me, a stolen betta won't make a bit of different in jacking up prices because of loss. They never sell any of their bettas; the poor things die and rot and get thrown away. I'll bet if you asked the betta, he'd say, "Steal me any time!"
> Full disclosure: I was once part of a humane society seizure in which we were only supposed to take starving horses, for which we had a court order. Somehow a starving kitten just happened to end up under my jacket and, eventually, in a loving home far from that hell farm.


I agree with you, there shouldn't be sympathy for WalMart. They shouldn't even be allowed to sell bettas in the first place. I mean sure, you'll find rare Walmarts that do tremendous work with their fish, but again that's rare. Honestly, humans don't think about their actions or consequences, even if it affects animals. NOT SAYING EVERYONE IS LIKE THAT. But I'd rather see someone steal a fish, then let it suffer in those kinds of conditions I see nowadays.


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Are you really equating stealing a betta to stealing to providing sustenance for ones family?! Sorry but that's just absurd, and probably offensive to anyone facing that dilemma. People NEED to eat. They DON'T need bettas.


I believe that the analogy twobettas was making was "is it okay to steal if it means saving a life", not whether the OP needed or wanted a betta??(correct me if I'm wrong twobettas...)

Maybe it's "just an animal life" as opposed to a human life, but I think that's where the issue gets gray and muddled.....and the different sides start lining up.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

BettaLover223 said:


> She's using that as an example good lord. Don't call people offensive, if you are going to offend.


What offends people is their own prerogative.

Anyone in a position of contemplating stealing food to feed their family would most likely be offended by the idea that it's the same thing as stealing a betta because you don't want it to die. 

On second thought I'm probably wrong - anyone in such a position probably wouldn't devote 2 seconds of thought to such a comparison, as they would have important things on their minds.


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## BettaLover223 (Feb 20, 2012)

jaysee said:


> What offends people is their own prerogative.
> 
> Anyone in a position of contemplating stealing food to feed their family would most likely be offended by the idea that it's the same thing as stealing a betta because you don't want it to die.
> 
> On second thought I'm probably wrong - anyone in such a position probably wouldn't devote 2 seconds of thought to such a comparison, as they would have important things on their minds.


Maybe instead of making stupid remarks, maybe you should realize that they aren't comparing saving a life to feeding a family. On your second comment, I can't tell if you are being mean, extremely rude or sarcastic, or just being dumb so I'm not going to try to talk to you anymore because obviously you aren't being level headed


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## NadegeT (Oct 4, 2013)

What a cutie, I bet he's going to become gorgeous! Good luck


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

BettaLover223 said:


> Maybe instead of making stupid remarks, maybe you should realize that they aren't comparing saving a life to feeding a family. On your second comment, I can't tell if you are being mean, extremely rude or sarcastic, or just being dumb so I'm not going to try to talk to you anymore because obviously you aren't being level headed


You know words have meanings, so instead of getting all in a tizzy you should think a little more about them.

My second comment is very serious and somber, not mean, rude, sarcastic or even dumb. Again, reading the words instead of reacting emotionally is key. And really, that's all it's been from you is one big emotional reaction, to which you are entitled. It's a bad comparison at best, but you're going to defend it nonetheless making a whole big issue out of it. Well done.


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## preternaturalism (Nov 21, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Sorry, but shoplifting is shoplifting and it's what contributes to prices going up for the rest of us. I can't believe that you admit it or the rest of you condone it. What does that teach the kids on the forum? That stealing is acceptable if you do it in the name of "saving" a fish? Unbelievable.


People that do endearing stuff like this are the reason self-checkouts are monitored like a police state in my neighborhood.

EDIT:


2muttz said:


> Are animals property?


Yes. My golden retriever doesn't get to go home with you just because she likes you better. I wouldn't try to take an animal of yours on that pretext either.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

NadegeT said:


> What a cutie, I bet he's going to become gorgeous! Good luck


Thank you! He's more active today. The little brat would not flare at anything I tried. Then I put my finger against the tank & whatta ya know. He flares. & he not only flares, he go goes back to his heater & touches it, then launches himself off of it back to my finger. 


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

redthebetta said:


> You know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and congratulate you. You should have/would have gotten the betta for free anyway. Maybe when you have more money, overpay a cashier by a few dollars. Just to clear your conscience. If I was in your position, I would have done the same thing. Also, I love his colours! :nicefish:


Thanks.  I hope he gets even prettier. 


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Tanya1983 said:


> Love the colors on him.
> 
> I did something similar with a baby rat once. I am not a thief by any means....but, I was in a small mom and pop style pet store. There was a large terrarium with a red tailed boa in it, and this woman opens the screen lid and tosses in this tiny baby dumbo rat.
> I already participated in rat rescue, pulling them from shelters and rehoming them. I loved rats and though I know snakes have to eat, it doesn't mean I have to like it. So anyhoo...the woman leaves the reptile area. There are no cameras or other staff around. I open this tank, reach in and this baby rat crawls up my arm because it knows it's life is in danger. I slipped him into my hoodie pocket where he curled into a quiet little ball. I purchased my crickets for my pet lizards, and left the store.
> ...


I love all animals, snakes & rats alike. When my dad had snakes, I watched him feed them once & couldn't sleep for a week. But I understood it would still happen, I just didn't wanna see it. But I probably would have done the same thing in the store or at least cried my heart out. I don't understand why a pet store would think it was okay to feed the snake during business hours. Parents don't want their kids seeing that. My only concern with you stealing the rat is I hope the snake didn't go hungry for too long since they thought he already ate! 


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

preternaturalism said:


> EDIT:
> 
> Yes. My golden retriever doesn't get to go home with you just because she likes you better. I wouldn't try to take an animal of yours on that pretext either.


Um, bit of a poor argument . The exact same could be said of a small child. Does that make them property too?


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

I will keep my thoughts to myself as to this thread other than to say it needs to be locked, no more good can come of the arguing taking place in this thread. It is discussing something that broke the law and shouldn't be allowed to progress further.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

It would be even better if it could be deleted. I should have thought more before taken such actions AND before I should post something about it. I didn't realize. Sorry everyone.


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## Survivor2013 (Dec 2, 2013)

You put it on the checkout area. It's their fault for not scanning it.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

Good job lifting the fish, it's a black mark on your soul.

There's a couple of sayings that have served me well for many years; what's legal isn't always moral, what's moral isn't always legal. Also, I have to live by the laws of man for several decades, but by the laws of God for all eternity.


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## sparketta (Nov 9, 2013)

That picture of him on his hammock is beyond adorable!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

> what's legal isn't always moral, what's moral isn't always legal.


Well said. I'm not going to argue, but I just want to say that you saved the fish from almost certain death. Good luck with him, he's beautiful. 

Can we please stop arguing? People are going to see this one way or the other and arguing really only ends up hurting people.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I stole both my cats...
(•_•) 
( •_•)>⌐■-■ 
(⌐■_■)

From NATURE!!! YYYEEEAAAHHHHHH

Seriously. I had to stop reading this back and forth debate. While it's healthy to debate things back and forth- I got bored of this one. OP make a new thread titled Tye-Dye for the appropriate comments. I, for one, think he's amazing and look at that gold color!


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## preternaturalism (Nov 21, 2013)

2muttz said:


> Um, bit of a poor argument . The exact same could be said of a small child. Does that make them property too?


Nope, that makes them immature members of your species that others (generally their ancestors) are tasked with protecting. Just a teeny, _tiny _bit different from functional adults. Try to make the same comparison again with a capable 40-year-old human being. ;-)

That being said, you've brought me to the understanding that it's less clear-cut than I'd thought at first if we just assume the animals are the moral equivalent of humans who are not properly capable of deciding their own best interests, but once you cross species it begs the question of where the "property" line is drawn. If my dog's not property, are my fish? My praying mantises? My paramecia? My tobacco mosaic virus? My cellulose? My tetrapropylammonium perruthenate? Care to explain why animals _shouldn't _be considered property?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I promise, DU, the quote is absolutely not aimed at you. But the poor checkers are being unfairly blamed for not paying attention and I thought, maybe wrongly, there should be clarification.

And I do apologize for being snarky with the "Have a good day." It was childish and unbecoming of a normally mature woman.

<< I finished my shopping & then went & through the self-checkout aisle & just scanned the pet keeper with the betta inside it. >>


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

DerangedUnicorn said:


> It would be even better if it could be deleted. I should have thought more before taken such actions AND before I should post something about it. I didn't realize. Sorry everyone.


 Don't be silly, this is an awesome thread.


I am an older woman with what I think are very high moral standards. Guess what? If I saw a suffering/abused animal, horse, dog, cat, fish, whatever, I would steal it in a hot minute IF 
I could not purchase it. I see nothing wrong with purchasing a sick fish to try and save it. Stores don't make money off the pets, they make money off the supplies for the pet.

Deranged Unicorn, why did you decide to steal the fish rather than pay for it? $7 doesn't seem that much to me (although my Walmart only charges $4 for bettas). The best way to "serve Walmart right" for mistreating their fish is to never shop there again ever.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I promise, DU, the quote is absolutely not aimed at you. But the poor checkers are being unfairly blamed for not paying attention and I thought, maybe wrongly, there should be clarification.
> 
> And I do apologize for being snarky with the "Have a good day." It was childish and unbecoming of a normally mature woman.
> 
> << I finished my shopping & then went & through the self-checkout aisle & just scanned the pet keeper with the betta inside it. >>


I agree it's not the cashier's/checker's fault. I mean, i was trying to slip one past them. I've been a cashier plenty of times. I would not appreciate someone's shoplifting to be blamed on me, unless I balantly saw it. 

& all is forgiven/irrelevant. I know debates can be hot sometimes. Especiallly on the internet for some reason. I am a psych major. I should really do a study on why people seem so much angier with each other over the internet. I don't get nearly as angry with someone standing right in frong of me than with someone over the internet. Humans are weird. lol



registereduser said:


> Don't be silly, this is an awesome thread.
> 
> 
> I am an older woman with what I think are very high moral standards. Guess what? If I saw a suffering/abused animal, horse, dog, cat, fish, whatever, I would steal it in a hot minute IF
> ...


Well, I guess there's a few reasons. None of them make it excusable, but here ya go.

It may have been a silly thing to be afraid of, but I was scared of getting in some sort of trouble if I showed up at the counter with a fish in a bag without the UPC number written on the bag. Then they would have known that I took it upon myself to get the fish out of the fish tanks & I remembered a thread on here about something who said they got thrown out of Wal-mart because they tried to clean the betta's water. I thought I would get in trouble for messing with the fish without an employee.

Second, I hear everyone on here get discounts/free fish from pet stores because the fish is sick. I tried to do that once with a fish at Petco. The woman would not let me have the fish at any reduced price. She was trying to convince me there was nothing wrong with the fish. -.- So, I ended up paying for the fish & I didn't want that to happen again. (Just a note, the fish died within fifteen minutes of me arriving home with it. Not sick my butt.)

I'm not very assertive & I'm actually quite shy when it comes to speaking with people in person, so I felt afraid to tell them I got the fish out or ask for a discount. & I know it sounds impossible, but I literally did not have seven more dollars to spare after buying food for myself and getting the needed equiment for the fish. Like, I only go to school & my dad gives me grocery money when he can. So, there is no other source of income for me. I really shouldn't even have the fish I already had because they were bought with grocery money as well. Or money that could go towards paying off my credit card. Can you tell I'm new to this "manging my own money" thing? I'm a broke college student. 

Again, none of these things make it right. I couldnt leave the fish there & it was the easiest solution I could think of at the time. Again, I was not in a great state of mind. I guess you could say I took the cowardly way out of the situation. Not very flattering, but that's probably the truest way I can explain it.

I don't want to looked at as a bad person. I was not out to hurt anyone. It wasn't even wanting to steal. It was just, at that moment in time, it was a great idea. I'm sure everyone has had a "it sounded good at the time" moments. But I am not making excuses for the wrong. Just explaining what was going on in my head at the moment.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I would of stolen him as well. If he was kept in proper conditions then we wouldnt go to such drastic measures to save a life!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Tikibirds said:


> I would of stolen him as well. If he was kept in proper conditions then we wouldnt go to such drastic measures to save a life!


How does bagging the fish yourself entitle you to not paying for it? Why does having to wait for an employee to help you mean the merchandise is free? And lastly, when all it takes is for you to show a cashier the bagged fish, why would you smuggle it out?


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

preternaturalism said:


> Nope, that makes them immature members of your species that others (generally their ancestors) are tasked with protecting. Just a teeny, _tiny _bit different from functional adults. Try to make the same comparison again with a capable 40-year-old human being. ;-)
> 
> That being said, you've brought me to the understanding that it's less clear-cut than I'd thought at first if we just assume the animals are the moral equivalent of humans who are not properly capable of deciding their own best interests, but once you cross species it begs the question of where the "property" line is drawn. If my dog's not property, are my fish? My praying mantises? My paramecia? My tobacco mosaic virus? My cellulose? My tetrapropylammonium perruthenate? Care to explain why animals _shouldn't _be considered property?


 

Yes, it is less clear-cut than you thought. Suggesting that animals are something more than just inanimate property in no way immediately elevates them to the moral equivalent of humans. The foggy area in between those two points is certainly very difficult to navigate, which is why it is mostly avoided.

. Recent Scientific research begins to tell us more and more that animals think, reason and feel emotions. The findings are out there for anyone who cares to look for them. So then, if that means we'd like animals to be considered not "just" property ~What rights should they be assigned, and which should they not be assigned? Is a sick, dying, uncared for pet store fish solely a broken commodity that still belongs only to its vendor? Or a beating heart that belongs to anyone in the community who cares to intervene? 

This is an issue that will continue to be debated, for a long long time before being resolved in hard legality. And debated by greater, more eloquent voices than mine.With solid arguments that don't fall apart easily. But rest assured, it _will_ be argued.

I don't believe that the judicial system who will ultimately make these decisions will be too concerned about your paramecia. I think a more practical and immediately concerning public issue about "lines to be drawn" will be livestock vs pets. And what constitutes each. It's hard to imagine how complex that debate will get in a flesh-eating culture.

These are not issues that will be resolved in this thread, or possibly even this century. 

My points, while not as grandiose and obtuse as yours, are at least sincere and without sarcasm. 

I am glad one little innocent life was saved, even if it was at Walmart's expense. Other than that, I'm done here too!


(Oh, btw, I can make that argument with a 40 year old human ~ my spouse can follow you home because he likes you better, but you can't actually keep him. Not without a prolonged court battle.Until then, he belongs to me... /: )


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## 2muttz (Aug 16, 2013)

DerangedUnicorn said:


> I don't want to looked at as a bad person. I was not out to hurt anyone. It wasn't even wanting to steal. It was just, at that moment in time, it was a great idea. I'm sure everyone has had a "it sounded good at the time" moments. But I am not making excuses for the wrong. Just explaining what was going on in my head at the moment.


Aww, DU, don't keep beating yourself up. You are not a bad person and you are not on a slippery slope to a life of crime.... You did an impulsive, kind thing that may or may not have been wrong depending on whose opinion you ask.

Here's a confession ~ some 35 years ago, when I was a freshman in college, my roommate and I went out and shoplifted clothes and makeup to go to a party. Wrong, pure and simple. No gray area there, no kindness involved,just two arrogant little punks who wanted something they couldn't afford. And yet, I did not go on to become a career criminal, a menace to society or a porn star. Had a long stable career, nursed first husband thru a terrible terminal illness, etc.etc. We all do some wrong things in otherwise good,ordinary lives. Jesus died for everybody's sins, lots worse ones than taking a little sick creature from a place that didn't care if it lived or died.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

2muttz said:


> Aww, DU, don't keep beating yourself up. You are not a bad person and you are not on a slippery slope to a life of crime.... You did an impulsive, kind thing that may or may not have been wrong depending on whose opinion you ask.
> 
> Jesus died for everybody's sins, lots worse ones than taking a little sick creature from a place that didn't care if it lived or died.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Emotions make us do stuff we wouldn't normally do. You have a good heart and learned from the experience. When all is said and done the fish survived and will thrive and Walmart will not go under :lol:


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## preternaturalism (Nov 21, 2013)

2muttz said:


> Yes, it is less clear-cut than you thought. Suggesting that animals are something more than just inanimate property in no way immediately elevates them to the moral equivalent of humans.


I never argued they should be considered inanimate, nor did I attempt to imply they'd have to be human not to be property.



2muttz said:


> Recent Scientific research begins to tell us more and more that animals think, reason and feel emotions. The findings are out there for anyone who cares to look for them.


Sure. Anyone with a dog could tell you that. The question is whether that should prevent them from being property.



2muttz said:


> Is a sick, dying, uncared for pet store fish solely a broken commodity that still belongs only to its vendor? Or a beating heart that belongs to anyone in the community who cares to intervene?


That's the thing: aside from the "belongs" bit, the fish can easily be _all of those things_. Just because something is property does not mean that its worth is only to the owner, nor that steps cannot be taken by others to preserve it. Important historical relics, for example, can belong to a private collector, or to a country, or to a museum; they're property but they are _also _important to a wide range of people and deserving of preservation.



2muttz said:


> I don't believe that the judicial system who will ultimately make these decisions will be too concerned about your paramecia.


My question would be why? At what point is it acceptable for a lifeform to be counted as property?



2muttz said:


> I think a more practical and immediately concerning public issue about "lines to be drawn" will be livestock vs pets. And what constitutes each. It's hard to imagine how complex that debate will get in a flesh-eating culture.


Yep, that's going to be intriguing. We can eat about anything, we may well wind up farming things which aren't considered "livestock" now, and who knows, in a hundred years pigs could be exclusively kept by the wealthy as companions. I myself would find it quite difficult to separate the two, especially since I've had typical "livestock" as pets.



2muttz said:


> My points, while not as grandiose and obtuse as yours, are at least sincere and without sarcasm.


Sarcasm? Nothing I wrote was sarcasm or intended to offend.



2muttz said:


> I am glad one little innocent life was saved, even if it was at Walmart's expense. Other than that, I'm done here too!


I'm not arguing the OP did anything morally wrong. Everyone has to make their own choices regarding things like that. Frankly I may have done the same thing in the same situation though consideration for later shoppers (and myself) would have weighed in heavily. _Just because something is a person's property does not mean it cannot be morally, even legally, taken away from them._



2muttz said:


> (Oh, btw, I can make that argument with a 40 year old human ~ my spouse can follow you home because he likes you better, but you can't actually keep him. Not without a prolonged court battle.Until then, he belongs to me... /: )


(Methinks my girlfriend would take issue. Regardless, this dodges the point. An adult dog can't generally transfer will-nilly from one person to another to the outdoors, because it is property. You'd be rightfully liable for damage it did if you allowed it to behave that way, because it is property. An adult human being can jump from one friend to another, apartment to hotel, because they're not property. You wouldn't be liable for a friend punching someone out in a bar while you were miles away and weeks out of contact, because they're not property. It has nothing to do with children which is all I was trying to point out.)


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

Wow, this thread just blew up with negativity. =( I think it is best to just drop it. what's done it done right? 

I am glad he is eating a little bit. <3 I wanted to ask, is he blind by chance? His eyes look cloudy.


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## riorider (Sep 15, 2013)

Please post an update picture!


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Why not do the right thing anyway? When you return the heater, show them the receipt and tell them that they forgot to charge you for the fish.

So while I think you were right to give that fish a better life, taking it was wrong. 

You have to live with your actions and that's the reason that you should do the right thing. Not for the fish department who should be ashamed of the conditions they keep the fish in.


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## SunshineSulie (Mar 16, 2013)

So, uh... How is the fish?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree with the person who said research should be done about people who get angry on the Internet. It's partly because they can't see who's behind the screen. A lot of people are shy or have social anxiety and would never have the guts to say stuff to people face to face but sure aren't shy on the Internet.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'd like to see some pics. He's going to be gorgeous!


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

dramaqueen said:


> I agree with the person who said research should be done about people who get angry on the Internet. It's partly because they can't see who's behind the screen. A lot of people are shy or have social anxiety and would never have the guts to say stuff to people face to face but sure aren't shy on the Internet.


That was me.  I understand that people will say stuff over the internet because they have the cover of being anonymous, but I feel like they not only let whatever they are feeling out, this seem to feel even more passionately about an issue when they are arguing over the internet. I don't think people feel nearly as passionate about something when they are arguing about it in person. Maybe the fact that they CAN say whatever they want on the internet feeds fuel to the fire. Who knows.l


& everyone who asked for pictures, I will try to post some tomorrow. I am really busy today trying to finish up final projects for school. I shouldn't even be on this forum right now. :roll:


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

Romad said:


> Why not do the right thing anyway? When you return the heater, show them the receipt and tell them that they forgot to charge you for the fish.
> 
> So while I think you were right to give that fish a better life, taking it was wrong.
> 
> You have to live with your actions and that's the reason that you should do the right thing. Not for the fish department who should be ashamed of the conditions they keep the fish in.


You know, that seems like such a simple solution...Why hasn't anyone thought about that until now? Good idea. I'll do that. I think that's the best way to make everyone happy. Thanks.

BTW, I LOVE your signature. Animal testing is something that's a hard topic for me. I'm a psych major, so a lot of my knowledge about it has come from animal testing, but on the other hand, I can't really think about it without crying. So, seeing that quote helps bring a little humor into a very dark, touchy subject. Thanks.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I know exactly why people feel safe online. Anonymity. It's like breaking up through text. Since almost 80-90% of human communication is non-verbal, when you're not face to face there's no need to conceal or phrase things to save face or protect others. Also, it's incredibly hard to gauge intonation. Intonation is huge.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

For those of you who wanted updated pictures, I have created a journal for all my fish here which includes pictures from today of Tie-Dye. Thanks!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Tie Dye is so pretty! He really ought to spread his fins out more. Lol If he only knew how beautiful he is when he does that.


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## AAquarist (Dec 3, 2013)

I really love his coloration! I must say, the story I love to. I don't think what you did makes you a bad person. I think your emotions simply took over! Thanks for saving the little guy. He'll be happy with you and he has a really nice color for sure. Perfect name.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Are you really equating stealing a betta to stealing to providing sustenance for ones family?! Sorry but that's just absurd, and probably offensive to anyone facing that dilemma. People NEED to eat. They DON'T need bettas.


My parents work hard to bring food on the table, but this is not offensive. This person saved the bettas life from Wal-Mart. 

This goes to all that came just to point out the negatives. I congratulate the OP for rescuing. Yes, stealing is wrong and never justifiable, but we are not saying that it is ok. Rescuing- good, stealing- bad.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

First of all, why have you come here to just judge this person? They thought that saving a life was a good thing (it was!) and people are now just downing on them. 



jaysee said:


> What offends people is their own prerogative.
> 
> Anyone in a position of contemplating stealing food to feed their family would most likely be offended by the idea that it's the same thing as stealing a betta because you don't want it to die.
> 
> On second thought I'm probably wrong - anyone in such a position probably wouldn't devote 2 seconds of thought to such a comparison, as they would have important things on their minds.


Didn't you say that words have meaning? "You know words have meanings, so instead of getting all in a tizzy you should think a little more about them." 
So your words are offensive. Think a little more when talking to people. You may be able to hide behind a profile, but people have feelings and you need to respect them. Remember, don't contradict yourself when writing ;-)



BettaLover223 said:


> Maybe instead of making stupid remarks, maybe you should realize that they aren't comparing saving a life to feeding a family.


Amen. Well put. 



jaysee said:


> You know words have meanings, so instead of getting all in a tizzy you should think a little more about them.
> 
> My second comment is very serious and somber, not mean, rude, sarcastic or even dumb. Again, reading the words instead of reacting emotionally is key. And really, that's all it's been from you is one big emotional reaction, to which you are entitled. It's a bad comparison at best, but you're going to defend it nonetheless making a whole big issue out of it. Well done.


...:|


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You know there will be a warning and a threat to close the thread if I actually respond to this, especially since it's been exhausted already.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree it should be closed.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> I agree with the person who said research should be done about people who get angry on the Internet. It's partly because they can't see who's behind the screen. A lot of people are shy or have social anxiety and would never have the guts to say stuff to people face to face but sure aren't shy on the Internet.


I think this pretty much covers today's activity on this topic.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

You put it out there members will comment or react and it may not be what you want to hear. 

Anyone has the right to and opinion and now this thread will be closed and no Jaysee not because of you or anyone, its because this topic has run its course


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

I think it should also be said that ANY FURTHER threads about STEALING will be closed immediately. 

TFK and BF DO NOT condone this behavior and we do not wish to see this kind of discussion on our forums.


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