# Losing color/fin rot



## milhouse88

Hello. I just found this forum. We've been getting advice from the pet store where we found him and then from a more fish based pet store where we started buying plants. This is our first betta.

Nin is losing his color. It started on his fins, and then his body started losing it's color as well. His fins have always been kind of ragged and stringy looking, but after seeing pictures I'm wondering if this is fin rot. The people we've been asking say we have nothing to worry about, but it appears to be getting worse. He swims, eats, makes bubble nests about the same as he always has. The white spots on his body don't look 'cottony' to me and there are no little white spots (ick?) that I can see. It just looks like the color is gone.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gallon, filled half way
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes, low flow. only run a couple hours a day
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none currently. a snail for a couple months

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? hikari betta bio-gold
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 times a day (5 pellets)

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 1 week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 1/2. We had been doing 100% every other month, but was told that was too often
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? instant DeChlor

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0 to .5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: between 0-20
pH: 8.2
Hardness: 100 (but sometimes a little higher)
Alkalinity: 8.2

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? loss of color on fins, then body. Fins are more ratty.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? none
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 3 weeks
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? API Liquid Fungus for a week, then API Bettafix for a week
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? he's been here for 5 months

Here are some pictures:
The spot on his side and his fins








The other side:








Ratty fins:








Thanks for any help!


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## Oldfishlady

Welcome to the forum and sorry you are having problems....by the looks of the fins....IMO it is environment related......

What I would do....QT in a small container that can be floated in the heated tank to maintain a stable water temp in the 76-77F range and start Aquarium salt 1tsp/gal along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days....if you have tannins to add all the better....either IAL or dried oak leaf will work for tannins....

You can pre-mix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water...add the salt and tannins to dissolve and steep.....shake well and equalize temp before use.....this will make water changes and correct dosage easier.......

Once the treatment is completed I would then place in a 1gal container unfiltered and start twice weekly water changes...1-50% and 1-100%.....

Once fins grow back and this time will vary from 1 week to months......place him back in the full to the top with water 5gal tank....either keep the filter running 24/7 or remove it all together...make sure nothing is in the tank that can snag and tear the delicate fins.....

Water changes on the 5g filtered...50% twice weekly
Unfiltered 5gal.....50% twice weekly with 100% monthly unless you add live plants either stem and/or floating....then water changes 50% weekly regardless of filtration....

Nutrition is also very important for healing and fin regrowth.....high protein fed in small amount several times a day.....


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## milhouse88

Thanks for the advice. I'll get started. Any particular food recommendation?


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## milhouse88

Now that I'm doing this I have some more questions. Am I supposed to change the whole tank for 10 days? Refilling it how much? Why not go to a smaller container now if I'm doing 100%?


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## turtle10

milhouse88 said:


> Now that I'm doing this I have some more questions. Am I supposed to change the whole tank for 10 days? Refilling it how much? Why not go to a smaller container now if I'm doing 100%?


Aw don't make him go smaller, he probably loves his 2.5 gallons. I wouldn't go any smaller than that.


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## vaygirl

If you re-read OFL's advice, she told you to use a smaller container, floating in your main tank (in order to keep temp constant).


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## turtle10

Oh I thought he meant permanently. 

Yeah for treatment a smaller container is best.


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## PewPewPew

Take OFL's advice, she knows what's up ;D Clean water makes a happy betta. A happy, swimmingy betta makes a happy caregiver who can enjoy their friend at his best C:


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## milhouse88

I apologize for my confusion, but I'm lost now. Maybe's there a FAQ you can point me to; but if I'm 100% changing the tank, what does the smaller container do? 
And if I'm 100% the tank should I just take all the gravel and plants out until this is resolved? I know from experience he doesn't like the tank changes and lays low for a day or so after. If all the plants get moved, he doesn't know his swim path.


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## turtle10

You put the betta in the small container and do the 100% water changes there. Smaller containers are often used for treatment because it is easier to do 100% water changes. You don't treat him in the main tank.


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## milhouse88

So he'll be confined to the smaller container and it gets changed 100%. It sits in the aquarium just to maintain temperature. That makes more sense.


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## turtle10

Yes that is correct.


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## milhouse88

Thanks! The 100% changes in the main tank were already becoming a burden. Does he need anything in the smaller container? Or just in there by himself for 10 days? 
All the plants are real, so I don't think he hurts himself one those.


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## turtle10

I would use aquarium salt to help with his fins. One teaspoon per gallon, although the container won't be a whole gallon so you can pre-mix the treatment and use it as needed. Change the water everyday with the salt. Don't add more salt unless you do a water change.


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## milhouse88

Is there something I can test for to prevent this in the future? The water seemed ok, from my testing and what I've been told.


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## turtle10

milhouse88 said:


> Is there something I can test for to prevent this in the future? The water seemed ok, from my testing and what I've been told.


Well from what I read you weren't changing the water enough. The filter isn't cycled and it is only 2.5 gallons of water. You should be doing at least one 50% water change and one 100% water change. The filter doesn't do much if it is only turned on sometimes.

Just keep up with water changes and a nice warm temp and diet.


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## milhouse88

We were originally changing it more, but was told that was too often. I've been getting conflicting advice from the beginning. I'll go back to my old pattern.
Thanks for all the input!


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## turtle10

milhouse88 said:


> We were originally changing it more, but was told that was too often. I've been getting conflicting advice from the beginning. I'll go back to my old pattern.
> Thanks for all the input!


Who told you it was too often? Just wondering.


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## milhouse88

The fish store where we were buying plants. They actually recommended not doing 100%, as it disturbs the plants and everything. I was still doing 100% monthly against their recommendation.
By 100% I mean rinsing the gravel and everything.


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## turtle10

With out a cycled tank you must do 100% weekly water changes. How many plants do you have?


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## milhouse88

A bunch. Probably 6 or so. Mostly small banana plants and things like that. All real ones. I felt like he'd get hurt on the plastic ones.
I was willing to decrease the frequency of the 100% changes becuase they do cause Nin stress. He hides for a day or so, then it takes a couple more days for him to relearn the plant layout. He likes to swim laps around in between stuff and then come out and try to scare you.


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## turtle10

milhouse88 said:


> A bunch. Probably 6 or so. Mostly small banana plants and things like that. All real ones. I felt like he'd get hurt on the plastic ones.
> I was willing to decrease the frequency of the 100% changes becuase they do cause Nin stress. He hides for a day or so, then it takes a couple more days for him to relearn the plant layout. He likes to swim laps around in between stuff and then come out and try to scare you.


Hmm, I am not sure if that is enough to really affect the water quality by much. I am sorry he stresses so much, but unfortunately because of the tank size and the filter situation 100% are needed weekly.


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## ANHEL123

Just want to say about water change. I used to do 75% because i thought that it will stress them out. Then a few of my friends were doing 100% and bettas never get sick, so about 1.5 year ago i started doing 100% water changes and they seems like fine never get sick yet. 

I always rinse everything inside (gravel, plants) very thorough. And i always check all plants make sure it not rotten 

I think also very important that they eat food and it not sinking to the bottom ,because it decompose and contaminate the water.


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## milhouse88

I'll start doing 100% now. No food ever hits the bottom though. He feasts on the pellets. I should probably start another thread about feeding. I worry that he's hungry, but I've keep hearing not to overfeed. He gobbles them up as soon as they hit the water.


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## ANHEL123

They all do that. We have to be careful. They can overeat and get sick. I had that accident before. I put too much pellets by accident and he ate them,which make him sick(very bloated )and he didn't eat for 4 days. So u have to be careful. I don't know how other people but i feed mine with 3 different kind of pellets . And I give those 2 in the morning and 1 at night. And I feed them with blood worms 3 times a wk in between the pellets. Well sometimes i give them 2 in the morning and 2 at night. 

I heard some people give them fasting day once a wk,but i am not sure about that i can't do it anyway, because they get so existed to see me every time (very tempting)

I think if u would feed more then i do it would be overfeeding. And i like to do morning and evening rather than all pallets at once


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## milhouse88

At what point should things start getting better? His activity level is the same, but the white on his body continues to spread.


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## turtle10

Just to re-cap…

How have you been treating him and for how long?


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## milhouse88

We've been trying the 100% changes with aquarium salt as recommended.

Hopefully, I spoke too soon. This morning the wife noticed he doesn't look any worse than the day before and I agree. Maybe progress will come next!


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## turtle10

Okay well I'm not sure you long you have been doing it but do it for 10 days.


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## milhouse88

Here are some new pictures


















The white on his body seems to have quit spreading and his fins look a little less white. we're half way through the 10 day 100% treatment. One thing I noticed we've been using 1/2 tsp per gallon (per the salt instruction) as opposed to the 1 tsp per gallon recommended here. Should I up it to 1 per gallon or are different salts different?


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## ANHEL123

I don't know what he has. But 1/2 i think not enough for treatment it more as a preventative.

And i know salt treatment can be only for 10 days and then should be brake.

But i don't know if u can just give him 1tsp/gall and continue to treat for 10 more days or may be u need more then 1tsp/gall. I just sand PM to Oldfishlady she is the best with all salt treatments.

If u guys half way through the treatment i would start 1tsp/gall with 100% water changes today. And see how he doing and wait for Oldfishlady recommendation
May be someone else can figure out what wrong with him. I thought that whit spots can be ICK.


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## vaygirl

Those light patches look a LOT like marbling. Marble bettas change colors often. I'd continue the treatment for his torn fins but I don't think he had anything but fin rot due to not enough water changes. You can look up pics and descriptions of marble bettas and see what you and the missus think.


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## Oldfishlady

The white patches do look a bit like marbling......

I would increase your salt to 1tsp/gal along with the 100% daily water changes...its important to maintain therapeutic levels....to complete the 10 day course 

If he is overall acting and eating normally...once you have completed the 10 days of salt treatment I would get him in fresh water and increase the water changes some while feeding small amounts of high protein diet several times a day and observe....it takes time for the fin to heal and regrow....depending on the root cause, age, nutrition etc.....it can take days to months and often the fins will never look the same and some will be prone to fin problems....


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## ANHEL123

Thank you Oldfishlady for ur response


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## milhouse88

Today the blue on his body is coming back!?! Would that be the case with marbling?

Also, I'm at the end of the 10 day 100% changes. Should I start with 50% and 100% once each per week as originally recommended or do something different now? Should I continue with any salt? Or stop completely?

Thanks for your time!


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## turtle10

milhouse88 said:


> Today the blue on his body is coming back!?! Would that be the case with marbling?
> 
> Also, I'm at the end of the 10 day 100% changes. Should I *start with 50% and 100% once each per week as originally recommended* or do something different now? Should I continue with any salt? Or *stop completely*?
> 
> Thanks for your time!


This.


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## ANHEL123

U have to stop aquarium salt completely since the salt treatment only for 10 days. I just PMed Oldfishlady since i did it first time.

I am not sure if marbling something that he will have on and off all the time?

Also I wondering I using quarter of the tsp of aquarium salt for long time for mine bettas is that something I have to stop to do?


Is he is active and eating normally ?


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## turtle10

Yes I would stop using the aq salt regularly ^


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## ANHEL123

When the Betta has the marble gene...they marble all the time...every changing......they can go from one color to another...to white...then back to a color etc...... 

That what Oldfishlady answered to me. So look like ur guy is ok . He is eating and active right?

Thank you Oldfishlady for help.


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## roadrunner

I think you are little confused. I'm still not sure if you fully understand difference between small betta condo and cycled aquarium. If you have larger tank with filter and heater it needs to be properly cycled first. There is lots of info on the net on how to cycle your aquarium. Once it is cycled, do not clean your tank thoroughly or you will kill all your good bacteria and you will have to start all over. Also filter should be running all the time and carbon changed regurarly. In cycled aquarium 50% water change once a week should be ok. Are you also using any fertilizer for your live plants?

In small betta containers ammonia levels build up fast and 100% water has to be changed often. And that's probably why you were getting mixed messages. Some people were giving you advise on small tank and other on the larger cycled aquarium....


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## milhouse88

I'm going the 'small betta condo' route. I've taken the filter out of the tank. I am still using the heater. 

He's almost completely blue again. Today I noticed he's starting to look a little ratty. The 50% change is tomorrow. Hopefully that will clean him up. 

He's active and eating. Although we did have one day of him spitting up his food. It was a new package, so we tried a different one and he's not spitting that up.


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## ANHEL123

I really don't know what to say. But i do 100% on 2.5 gall and the last 2 betta that i bought on 2/10 didn't get sick yet and very active and eating like little pigs and i also have 3 years old bettas that i do the same 100% water changes.

I used to do just 75% before.

I think some people on the forum i read do 100% water changes. 

I have bettas since long time ago and i never was on the forums so i guess i started with other people recommendations and it worked perfectly i never have problems yet. 

I think if my bettas live long and healthy life there is something i do right i don't know. I even afraid to change the way i do because i do it for i think about 3 years.

Well any betta can get sick no matter how u take care of them. I see a lot of sick betta with people do right care.

So i would considerate that i do something right? 

Please don't get me wrong i am not arguing i just saying my point of view since i do it that way i learned.


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## milhouse88

I'm due to change the water 50% tomorrow and still use no salt. Is that what it looks like needs to happen? He still looks 'ratty', but almost all the blue on his body his back.


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