# Betta constipation and fin rot!



## Indygrl (Feb 2, 2014)

My betta fish has been severely constipated for 2 weeks now. He is in a 1 gallon unfiltered, non heated tank that I change 30% of water every other day. I have no gravel for him so I can see exactly when he poops. I tried peas for 4 days, daphnia for a day and pea soaked in cod liver oil yesterday but nothing has worked. I was about to put epsom salt in his tank tomorrow a little over half teaspoon for his gallon tank when today morning I noticed he has developed fin rot as well. The tip of one fin was clear and then after a few hours it developed red on the edges too. Now, I have to treat him for both constipation and fin rot. Since he's been severely constipated for over 2 weeks is it better i do an Epsom salt treatment tomorrow first? Then if he poops I can start treatment for fin rot? I'm away from the house till tomorrow evening so I can't check on him for 24 hours. Hope he hasn't lost his fin by then but I need advice on the Epsom salt. Shall I do the treatment tomorrow? He is a little bloated from his constipation but was still swimming when I last saw him. Is it a little over 1/2 tsp? Then I leave that for 24 hours and do a 30% water change and put back 1/4 tsp epsom salt? I'm so confused! I love my betta and don't want to lose him. Help!


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## Plakatmasta (Jan 31, 2014)

Try treating the fin rot with melafix and maybe fast him until his stomach clears and them get him back on the boiled and shelled peas and keep up with the daily exercises and hopefully he clears up soon.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Actually peas are a bad idea. Betta fish are NOT omnivores. They do not eat plant material, and feeding an animal something that is not meant to be part of it's diet is an unwise and unhealthy thing to do. All the pea does is add fiber to his diet, it is not a laxative. You can get fiber from brine shrimp, a more natural source for Betta. 

First, an unheated tank will slow down his metabolism. That could be part of your problem. Next, what type of food do you feed? Food with fillers can contribute to constipation. You do need to fast him. I would fast him for at least 3-4 days, and during that time treat with 1tsp per g predissolved Epsom Salt. 

You don't need to treat the fin rot with melafix. Don't use an a medication on fin rot unless it is severe (like getting towards the body). Medications are hard on your fish, and over exposure to them can cause internal health problems and make the meds not work when you need them.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I couldn't log back in so I created a new account but I posted this originally. I'm in the process of transferring my betta to a 5.5 gallon uncycled tank and do a fish in cycle but I don't yet have a heater and the filter is too strong so I need to either adjust it or get another one. In the meantime his fin rot is worse and has spread to his other fin and he still hasn't pooped in 18 days. Neptune's mom suggested an epsom salt treatment. Will it stress him out and make his fin rot worse? I was feeding him Aqueon pellets. It didn't constipate him for 4 months. But maybe the temperature around him dropped and it messed up his metabolism and the stress from being constipated so long gave him fin rot? If I put 1 tsp of Epsom salt in his gallon tank slowly as u suggested do I change some of his water the next day? How long do I leave him there? Could it kill him or make him feel sick? I'm worried! Please help!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I wouldn't feed eas either. Try feeding daphnia, either frozen or freeze dried. I'm not sure how the Epsom salt treatment works so I can't help you there.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I tried feeding him daphnia one day last week and it didn't work. No one suggested I feed him daphnia more than once so I just fed him that for 1 day(peas for 4 days). Nothing worked! Should I try feeding him daphnia again or just do the Epsom salt treatment? I haven't fed him anything at all for 4 days now(no real food for 2 weeks)


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I would feed some daphnia (it is a laxative), and combine it with the ES treatment (you can up it to 2 tsp per g, predissolved). 

How do you know he is constipated? Can you post a picture?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He is in a 1 gallon tank with no substrate so Im 100% sure it has been 18 days since he pooped. I let him go 6 days feeding him his pellets before I stopped giving him pellets. I starved him a day then gave him a pea(as per others suggestions). It didn't work. I gave him peas for 4 days in a row. Still nothing, then I let him go a couple of days again without anything and then fed him daphnia once. Didn't help. Then I fed him a pea with cod liver oil the next day. Didn't work. Now I haven't given him anything since 5 days. 4 days ago he developed fin rot. It's getting worse by the day. I'm so scared! I don't want to lose him. In another forum people told me to switch him to a larger tank so I bought a 5.5 gallon tank. My local pet store had no heater and the filter is too powerful for him so I need to either make some adjustments or buy another filter and a i need to buy a heater. We've had a blizzard since yesterday so I can only go out to another store 40 mins away tomorrow. I filled water in the 5.5 gallon and put a large rock but I thought it would be better to set up the filter first before I put him in there. Also,i was thinking if i do the epsom salt treatment it would be easier to do it in the 1 gallon? I can put the heater later as he's used to room temperature water anyway. Room temperature is set at 77. Was 78 but I lowered it by 1 degree yesterday. I will try to take a picture and send it to you but usually he swims around making it hard. Also his tank is plastic so the pictures doesn't come clearly usually and reflects off it. 

Can you explain to me how exactly to do the Epsom salt treatment? How long do I leave him in it? Can it kill him? What about his fin rot? I want him to be ok. He's such a sweet fish. Please help!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I took a picture of my betta with my phone but I don't know how to upload it on here. Seems like I can only do it from a computer? My computer isn't working though and I can only do it from my phone or iPad but I don't know how.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Epsom salt is VERY gentle. He will be fine in the Epsom salt. Here is what I do: 

Start by getting Epsom salt that has no additive (it must be pure). Then I take a bottle of water and add the desired amount (up to 3 tsp per g is safe, but I always start out with a lower dose). Then I shake the bottle until it is all dissolved. Then I just dump the bottle into the water. I wait several days and watch for signs of improvement, no improvement and I'll change the water and do it again (this time with a higher dose). 

I would recommend keeping him in the 1 g for now, as it will be easier to change the water. Keep up with water changes every other day, and the fin rot should start to go away (the black/red will disappear, but it will take a while for the fins to grow back. 

I would try the daphnia again. Daphnia is a laxative, and Epsom salt is a laxative.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I started changing 30% of his water everyday since Sunday to keep it cleaner. Test showed no ammonia to very little maybe 0.15 and this was right before my water change yesterday. I will give him daphnia today and start off with 1 tsp epsom salt and keep him in that till tomorrow evening when I will do a 30% water change. Should I replace 30% of epsom salt after I change 30% of the water tomorrow? How many days would it take for it to work? Do I wait 2 days before upping the dose if it doesn't work? Hopefully it works. Poor little guy. His fin rot is getting worse though. Should I just concentrate on his constipation for now? Thanks so much for your help!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Here's the picture of the fish. The white spots are just on glass/reflection and is not on my fish. His fins have fin rot towards the edges as you can see although the picture is not that clear.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Yes, if you take out 30% of the water, you'll want to return 30% of the water with 1/3 tsp Epsom salt. I usually wait a couple days, and if there is no improvement up the amount of salt in the water. It's hard to tell, but he doesn't look bloated. Is he acting strange? Or has he just not pooped? 

I wouldn't be worried about his fin rot. That should clear up with clean water. It's incredibly mild. You should've seen some of my rescues. 

Have you looked into cycling your 5g? I would recommend starting that while he's in this small tank. 

He is a handsome boy!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

No, he is acting normal, friendly and swims around when he sees me. I have him a little bit of daphnia earlier and he gobbled it down. I will add the Epsom salt in his tank today and change his water only on Friday. Hope it works and doesn't stress him out!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Actually I think he is a little less active than usual. Maybe he's just weak from no real food for 2 weeks not to mention severely constipated! When I put the Epsom salt in the tank do I stir it? Is 100% natural mineral Epsom salt the right kind?


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

I hope you dissolve Epsom salt in water first, and yes when you add it to the tank gently move it around.

Freashwater salt helps too by the way. I didn't deal with constipation yet, but my betta had severe fin rot for 4 months!

Hoigh protein food and freash water salt helps a lot!

Epsom salt worked ones for my cory fish, but didn;t work for zebra danio, so be carefull with that.
and don't give up - bettas are hardy fishes


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Does that mean that the epsom salt killed your Danios? Another website I was getting help from didn't want me to use the Epsom salt as they said it stressed out fish but they thought if I put him in a 5 gallon it will resolve itself but I highly doubt that! He's been constipated for almost 19 days now. He needs serious help! The peas/daphnia etc were not working! I have brine shrimp but it just messes up the tank! Daphnia does too of course. I'm afraid to do the Epsom salt treatment but I feel I have no choice and Neptune's mom seems knowledgeable and is helping me. I hope he will be ok and will poop!

I'm going ASAP when the weather gets better to get him a heater and maybe a different filter since he Hates current of any sort. Other people were under the impression that it is far better to transfer him into an uncycled 5.5 gallon heated, filtered tank and cycle it with him in it. Heat is set at 77 in my house but when my husband comes he will turn it down to 70 so I'm scared. His turning it down one time to 68 is what I think started his constipation problems so maybe it's better to put him into that tank before my husband comes on the 21st.


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

You'll be surprised how many different advices you will get. I know green pea works for other fish 100%, but I am not sure if betta will eat it?
Epsom salt usually helps for constipation of other fish. I saved cory and discus with Epsom salt. but because I am new in fish care, I was worry so much to add salt to the tank, but salt does works for many fish problems! Just make sure you dissolve salt before you add it to the tank!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

My betta loves the pea. First time I gave it to him he spat it out but this last time since he's been constipated he ate it when I gave it to him 4 days in a row but it didn't produce any poop. I even soaked it in cod liver oil as per someone's suggestion. He ate it all but no poop!


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## Bakerina (Sep 14, 2013)

Try to google what people say about betta constipation. Looks like Epsom salt the way to go. I know freshwater salt you shouldn;t treat it more than 10 days.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm going to do a partial water change now and then put the Epsom salt in his tank. I had a quick final question. Could it stress him out and he starts acting all weird? If so what do I do as I can't take him out as that's his tank I'm going to mix it in. Anyone have an experience where their betta freaked out or something when doing the Epsom salt treatment? I'm soooo scared!!


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Don't use Aquarium Salt right now. Aquarium salt encourages fluid retention in the body, we are not wanting that right now. Especially, since his fin rot is not that bad. And, what the Aquarium salt will do is irritate his flesh,and encourage the dead flesh to slough off. It's uncomfortable for the fish, and burns. 

As I mentioned before, peas are NOT a good idea in Betta fish they are insectivores, not omnivores. You're feeding them something their body is not meant to digest. Feed brine shrimp for fiber, not peas.

ETA: Epsom salt is extremely gentle. Humans use it as a laxative and drink it. He will be fine. I have it in 2 tanks at this very moment. And, I've used it on many, many fish. I work in a pet store, and when we get shipments of sick fish... I take care of them. I have never seen a fish have a negative reaction to ES. I have never had a fish die while using ES.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks so much! I have the 100% natural mineral epsom salt. Is that the right one? It has big crystals?


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Thats just fine, it dissolves quickly in water so dont worry about the size. You can either pre dissolve in a cup or put it in when you do a water change. Whatever is easiest


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I put in the Epsom salt. He seems ok for now. Hope it works. I'll keep you posted.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He's been in the Epsom salt for about 10 hours. So far still no poop


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

The thing I find odd, if he hasn't pooped in 2 weeks, but you've fed him 4 peas and fed him normally for much of the time... he should be experiencing bloating in his stomach, at least a little. In his picture, he doesn't appear to have any bloating going on. Their stomach is only about the size of their eye.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I haven't fed him normally. Apart from 4 days of tiny pieces of pea and 2 days of 2 tiny piece of daphnia he hasn't eaten anything else in 2 weeks. Before 2 weeks he did eat 2 pellets twice a day for 5 days and one pellet twice a day for 1 day before I stopped feeding him pellets. He had been having problems with constipation since December. I had to starve him every 4 days to get him to poop. And then he would poop this huge piece of poop. This time I went 6 days before I starved him and I only starved him one day before I gave him a pea. I guess I shouldn't have let him go on so long and should have starved him more days before trying out the pea. I think he's a little bloated but not that much. I don't know what else it could be as his poop(when he used to poop) looked normal.

How long does it usually take for the Epsom salt to work? Of course he has been constipated for 19 days now so if it works it probably would take longer anyway


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

You are right though. His bloating is very mild. Most others fish pictures I've seen where the fish are constipated they are usually pretty bloated.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

For clarification, just to make sure I've got this, he has not pooped for 19 days? But, over the past 19 days you have only fed him a few pellets and small bits of pea? It sounds to me, that he isn't going because he doesn't have anything to go out. 

You fast him every 4 day? How many pellets do you feed when you do feed pellets? Also, if I remember right, you are feeding Aqueon? That can cause digestive problems in sensitive fish because it does have quite a bit of filler. You should consider a switch to New Life Spectrum or Omega One. Are you feeding him anything freeze dried? That can also cause digestive problems. Frozen is the best way to go. Is your daphnia frozen or freeze dried? 

He is acting normal correct?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I have never fed him anything freeze dried. He did eat 4 pellets a day for 6 days after his last poop and then I stopped feeding him pellets so there must be lots of poop to come out. When he ate for 4 days and then pooped before there would be this huge piece of poop so 6 days of pellets plus 4 days of little peas and 2 days of a bit of frozen daphnia should have an even bigger amount of poop to come out. Yes he hasn't pooped for 19 days straight and yes he is acting pretty normal. I hope this Epsom salt works otherwise I have no idea what to do


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi,
My fish ate some of the plec waffer and has been bloated for around 14 days now.
As soon as i noticed the bloat, I stopped feeding him for a couple of days. I tried the pea and soaking some daphinia in epson salts. Nothing seams to be working.
Rather than putting the epson salt directly into the tank. I just gave him a bath. Really getting desperate now...


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Should I change out 30% of his water today and replace 1/3 tsp epsom salt? Or should I leave the same water till tomorrow? I've read to do water changes everyday and replace the salts but what do you suggest? Still no poop!

Can I feed him some more daphnia today or should I wait?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Indygrl2, I would not feed anything right now. The daphinia has not worked for me.
I am going to starve for 24hours and try the bath again tomorrow. I am not feeling very optomistic. My boy is not swimming about so much today. I'm worried that his organs have started to shut down. I wish you all the best, maybe do the water change if you haven't already done one today. ( I have been told that if things get drastic then as much as 3 teaspoons per gallon but please research. ( I used about 3/4 of a teaspoon in a small jug and bathed him for around 10mins.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, Neptune's mom said I could go upto 3 tsp per gallon. I did 1 tsp last night. She told me to wait 2 days and if it doesn't work I can increase it. I have him in it the whole time as he is very severely constipated. I wanted to know if I should change out some of the water today and replace the salt. He seems to be hanging a little more at the top of the tank than he usually does. Don't know why and he seems a little less friendly today. I'm scared to increase the salt tomorrow if he doesnt poop but at the same time he really needs to go. 19 days is scary long!

Tamerind, you might want to try the leave-in treatment that I'm doing. 1 tsp for 1 gallon tank and leave him in there for a few days increasing it if its not working after 2 days. Has yours pooped at all?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

My tank is a 20 litre cycled tank which is heavily planted. I also have pet snails in there so I didn't really want to mess with the water. I did have a small plec in there with him. My Betta ate some of the plec waffer that is what has caused the constipation. He has not pooped out for at least 14 days and is looking very bloated. I have not fed his regular pellets for that length of time either. I have been feeding daphinia soaked in epsom salt solution inbetween days of fasting. I am getting increasingly worried as he has now become more inactive. He is uncomfortable as he is trying a little to relieve the bloat.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Oh, I moved my plec into a much larger tank. I will try the bath again tomorrow and leave him in for about 15mins. I don't think it causes them any harm.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I wonder if the Epsom salt makes it harder for them to breathe so they go up more often? His breath doesn't seem labored though!


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2: You can change it if you want. I usually don't change it every day, except when using antibiotics that require daily changes. The ES shouldn't have any impact on his breathing. 

Tamerind: I hope you have a 50+ gallon tank. Your pleco can grow up to 2'.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Neptunesmom, it's ok, he is an Ancistrus ( Brislenose plec ) his new aquarium is 92 litres ( 20 gallons ? ) This will be fine I believe.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Tamerind said:


> Neptunesmom, it's ok, he is an Ancistrus ( Brislenose plec ) his new aquarium is 92 litres ( 20 gallons ? ) This will be fine I believe.


That's the bare minimum size, the recommended would be 40g (at least at the LFS I frequent and the LPS I work at).

ETA: But, he should be okay in that size.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I have a quick question for Neptune's mom. I started doing daily 30% water changes in my betta's 1 gallon tank after he got fin rot, instead of every other day. I don't know if its working but looks like his fin rot isn't getting worse since I started that from Monday. Would it be ok to leave him for another day in the same Epsom salts I put in last night or is it better to do the change again today and add some Epsom salt? I know you said to keep him for 2 days but I wanted to ask you if it may make his fin rot worse again without the water change today?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> I have a quick question for Neptune's mom. I started doing daily 30% water changes in my betta's 1 gallon tank after he got fin rot, instead of every other day. I don't know if its working but looks like his fin rot isn't getting worse since I started that from Monday. Would it be ok to leave him for another day in the same Epsom salts I put in last night or is it better to do the change again today and add some Epsom salt? I know you said to keep him for 2 days but I wanted to ask you if it may make his fin rot worse again without the water change today?


To be honest, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the fin rot. It's mild, and fin rot is normally the result of poor water quality. But, you're not feeding much, and he's not pooping. The water doesn't really have much in it at this moment that would be contributing to poor water quality, except him and being that he's a Betta and not a Gold Fish he's not that messy.  Whatever you are the most comfortable with should be fine. 

Can you get a direct side shot of him, and an shot from the top?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I didn't change any of his water today. I will leave him in there for another day. He looks a little pale today in his Epsom salt but seems to be acting normal/ok. I couldn't get good pictures because he keeps moving. I will try again tomorrow. No poop  how long should I keep him in the Epsom salt treatment? 3 days? 5 days?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

It's not letting me post anymore pictures. I will try tomorrow. The pictures may come out better and clearer in the daylight also. Is the picture I put up the other day not the exact angle you want?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Here is the best I could do! Day 2 of Epsom salt treatment. still no poop. Can I feed him daphnia or brine shrimp today? Very messy but I will clean the tank later today and change 30% of water and replace a little less than 1/2 tsp Epsom salt. Is that ok?

Again any spots are reflection and not on the betta. Also I think his fin rot is getting better. He has a little bloat but it's not bad.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy, I still have no poop. Just about to embark on my second bath. I am not feeding again today...my boy looks so sad. I figure that you have no poop either?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

No poop here either. It's almost 3 weeks now . I'd be shouting from the rooftops if I saw any poop. He's in the Epsom salt since Wednesday night now. Going to change some water later and replace some of the salt. I might have to get another gallon container and do some baths if I'm going to increase the Epsom salts drastically. I was reading where someone said they had their betta for 4 days in 4 tsp of Epsom salt per gallon before it pooped. I would hate to have do that to mine


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Gosh..that's a lot. I just did the bath again for a full 15 mins. I must say, he is pretty chilled out about it. ( only a little stress when netting ). I did a good half a teaspoon diluted in about 1 litre of water which is quite a high dose but at this stage I feel drastic action is needed. Any idea how long we can fast them for?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I've heard you can fast them for a few weeks and they'll still be ok. The manager at my pet store said his friend fasted his fish for 2 months once and he was ok but he told me not to go that long. So you are putting him in a 1 litre bowl with 1/2 tsp for 15 minutes? That's a pretty small bowl. How big is your fish exactly? I hate to do the baths coz he would freak out if I take him out with a net. He is not used to it at all. I've never done it. Just poured him out in a cup usually. I'm going to try the bath with more Epsom salt only if the treatment doesn't work. Neptune's mom, please let me know if I can give him a little food today(daphnia or brine shrimp) as well as what else to do apart from the 30% water change replacing a little less than 1/2 tsp Epsom salt in the 30% or 1/3 gallon I'll put back in.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Think I will fast for about 3 days and then try a little bit of daphnia but nothing else. As for the bath, yes it's a little plastic tub that I float in his tank to keep the water from getting cold. He is fine with it, he doesn't move about much, pretty chilled in there really. Just make sure that everything is prepared well in advance. I dilute the epsom salts in boiling water then allow to cool before adding his own water. I scoop him with the net pretty quick. It seams an ok method. The bath does not stress him at all.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

How are things going Indygrl2?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2: 

He doesn't look bloated to me at all. 

Personally, I would keep the ES in the tank (it's gentle enough to stay in longer term). I would try feeding him some brine shrimp. It's not a laxative, but high in fiber. 

Tamerind: Instead of doing the bath, just put him in the ES. I have never used a bath, but I doubt it would work with ES the same as it would with AQ salt.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Day 3 of Epsom salt treatment. Day 21 of being constipated. Still no poop  I removed 30% of water yesterday and put fresh water and 1/3 tsp dissolved epsom salt to replace what i took out. He is acting normal but no poop. Fin rot does not seem to be getting worse at least but the constipation is what worries me. Should I remove 30% water today and the 1/3 salt again today. If I give him brine shrimp today I have to clean his tank and replace water as it makes a huge mess!

I think he looks a little bloated but its not bad and nowhere like some pictures I've seen that other people have posted. Maybe I'm mistaken but I think he has a little bit.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

How's your fish Tamerind?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy, no change for me either I'm afraid. I am now fearing the worst. I made a seperate post but here is my picture.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Oh poor little guy! I hope both our fish poop and recover! I'm really scared about mine too. 3 weeks is too long to go without pooping and I wonder if he will ever poop. I'm running out of options but I'll keep trying the Epsom treatment and maybe increase the Epsom salt a little if he doesn't poop by tomorrow maybe. I'll go per Neptune's mom's advice. I can't give up on him. I love him too much and apart from being severely constipated he looks and acts fine for now.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Good luck Indy. I shall bath my guy again tomorrow but he is not at all happy tonight. He is hiding behind his plant most of the time now which is a big worry.
His lights are off so he can get some peace.
Our poor guys. I really feel for them.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Tamerind are you sure you don't want to try leaving him in an Epsom salt treatment? Its supposed to be less stressful than baths unless of course you add a lot of Epsom salt. Hope your little guy feels better soon.

Neptune's mom, will brine shrimp cause bloating? I read somewhere that it can cause swim bladder disease so I was scared to give it to him while he is constipated. I have the kind with spirulina in it.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Was it freeze dried or frozen brine shrimp you were reading about? I have not heard of frozen brine shrimp causing bloating. Freeze dried anything can cause digestive problems if overfed, or fed in fish that already have a history of digestive problems.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Not sure which kind it was supposed to be but it was a link on brine shrimp and swim bladder disease and that brine shrimp can cause swim bladder disease. If I find the link I'll paste it here. Mine is frozen. I've never bought anything freeze dried. Should I feed him brine shrimp today and do another 30% water change after that and add replacement epsom salt?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> Not sure which kind it was supposed to be but it was a link on brine shrimp and swim bladder disease and that brine shrimp can cause swim bladder disease. If I find the link I'll paste it here. Mine is frozen. I've never bought anything freeze dried. Should I feed him brine shrimp today and do another 30% water change after that and add replacement epsom salt?


I won't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you what I would do. I would feed him the brine shrimp today. 

What frozen foods do you have?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Frozen brine shrimp with spirulina and frozen daphnia is all I have.

I'll feed him the brine shrimp and then clean his tank and and change 30% of water and replace epsom salt again today then


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I gave him some brine shrimp earlier in the evening. It definitely bloated him. Not very bad but Its there now. Hopefully it goes down by tomorrow otherwise I'll take pictures and post them to show you. I've never really noticed him getting bloated after he ate anything before so I'm worried. Still no poop! Tomorrow will be the 4th day in the Epsom salt treatment tank. I changed 30% of water today and replaced some of the salt. Is the salt still effective even though not all of it is freshly dissolved? Is it a 5 day treatment? If it doesn't work do I increase the salt? I know it's not good for them to be in epsom salt for too many days but he still hasn't pooped


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Can you post a picture of his bloating? 

ES is safe to use for an extended period of time. I've used it for months before with a fish that had organ failure. Have you upped to dosage?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Still no poop after 22 days! :-( I couldn't get a clear picture. It's a plastic tank and the reflection is very bad and the pictures were unclear plus he was moving around. I'll try to get one later. The bloat is a little better but it's still there. It's not too bad though. No, I didn't up the when I changed 30% last night. How much should I increase the dose to?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy,
I still have no poop either. I have now added the epsom salt direct to my boys tank. What is the proceedure please? 30% water change every other day and add more salt?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, Tamerind. Leave it for a couple of days and then do a 30% water change and replace 1/3 tsp of salt. That's assuming you put 1 tsp in a gallon tank.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> Still no poop after 22 days! :-( I couldn't get a clear picture. It's a plastic tank and the reflection is very bad and the pictures were unclear plus he was moving around. I'll try to get one later. The bloat is a little better but it's still there. It's not too bad though. No, I didn't up the when I changed 30% last night. How much should I increase the dose to?


I really would like to see a current picture of him before I make any other recommendations.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I've been trying to get a decent picture of him all day but I still haven't succeeded. Way too much reflection from the plastic tank with or without flash especially in the epsom salt water. Pictures are coming out pretty bad!


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Does he have white on him or is that a reflection? 

With ES it is safe to go up to 3 tsp ( 1 tbs) per g.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He's had gray under his chin and a little silver on his face for a few months now. I've had him for almost 6 months. I read that bettas should never be in 3 tsp/gallon for more than 15-20 mins(Epsom salt bath) . I'll send an attachment of the web page of what I read. Problem with the bath is now I only have this 1 gallon tank which I had put the 1 tsp epsom salt in and a new 5 gallon tank I was going to put him in later if he poops. The 5 gallon tank has only new water which I had set up last week and now need to change the water and add conditioner. I don't have another 1 gallon tank and even if I did buy one tomorrow I can't take out his current tank water to prepare the 3 tsp/ gallon epsom salt as his current tank already has Epsom salt. I don't want to use all new water and stress him out further as he would be horribly stressed out with me taking him out in the first place for a bath in a different tank and then putting him back. I'm so confused! Have you left bettas in 2 or 3 tsp of Epsom salt/gallon for extended periods of time(over 24 hours and they were ok)? I'm so scared!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Oops here is the attachment I had forgotten to attach in the previous post!


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

The longest I've left a fish in ES at 2tsp per g was 2-3 months (I can't remember exactly how long, but it was from mid-summer through early fall. I wouldn't recommend leaving a fish in that long under normal circumstances, but it did not kill her. She was already dying of organ failure, but she lived another month after I stopped the ES treatment and it had nothing to do with her death. I have a fish in at 3 tsp per g right now, and he's been that way for almost a week. He has a bad case of Popeye. 

If you are that nervous about it you can up it by .5 tsp or .25 tsp if you're planning on upping it. 

That gray can be a sign of stress. I know you said he's in a bare bottom tank, but are there places for him to hide?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, I will up it tomorrow as 1 tsp has obviously not worked. Since his tank already has salt how should I add the extra? Just take out 30% and add a little over 1/2 tsp? Will the old Epsom salt in tank still be effective? I didn't change any water today. 

No he actually has no place to hide in his bare-bottomed tank. No plants or rocks. Didn't know he needed any till I read it somewhere the other day. I got him a 5 gallon tank with a rock(they didn't have silk plants) but my local pet store didn't have a heater and the filter in the kit is way too powerful for my betta who HATES current of any sort so I haven't started cycling the tank yet. We had a blizzard the whole week so I couldn't go out of town to buy a heater and smaller filter. Will do so next week.

I didn't know the gray could be a sign of stress. He just kept getting grayer and grayer under his chin over the months I've had him.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Or should I try to change out around 50% of the water and put in 1 tsp to replace?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy,
No change for me either... I added the epsom salt direct to the water yesterday but only added about 2 teaspoons for the 20 litre..think I will change out about 20% more water today and add 1 teaspoon to that 20%
Does this sound ok?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Tamerind, are you sure you don't want to add more epsom salt? 1tsp is not much for a 20 liter tank. I have mine in a 1 gallon with 1 tsp epsom salt. I'm going to double the dose though as 5 days in the 1 tsp obviously didn't work. 

Neptune's mom, is it ok to just change 30% of water today and replace around 2/3 of a tsp? Or is it better to change 50% of the water and put in 1 tsp?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm going to change 30% of his water and put in half a tsp of Epsom salt for today. Then maybe if he doesn't poop by tomorrow, I'll change 30% of water and put in 2/3 tsp tomorrow.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2: You can really put in how ever much you want as long as it doesn't exceed the 3 tsp per g rule. Different ways work for different people, 30% or 50% whatever works the best for you, and you are the most comfortable doing.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy,
How it going?
Still no change for me. I am going to up the ES today.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

No change for me either. I replaced 30% of water yesterday and added 1/2 tsp epsom salt to the 1 gallon tank. He is hungry but after the mild bloating he got after giving him brine shrimp I'm scared to feed him anything. I think I might do a 50% water change either today or tomorrow and put in 1 tsp of Epsom salt. I'm getting desperate! 3.5 weeks of no poop 

Tamerind, are you going to try 1 tsp/gallon of Epsom salt now for your fish?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

I am a bit lost to how much I have put in..I put in 3 teaspoons on Sunday then yesterday I did a 30% water change adding another two teasoons to the new water and today I changed 10% and added another two? does this sound ok?
It is 18 days of bloat and no poop..


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, that sounds about right. Now I just wish our fish would poop! I feel so sorry for the poor things. I feel like I'm running out of options.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't know what to do now either.


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## Fishybitty (Dec 29, 2012)

Hey guys, I've been following this post. My female is bloated also.

I have in her a one gallon tank with only about 3 inches of water. (shes having a hard time getting to the surface)

I have a heater in there and I have been doing ES baths for 4 or 5 days now? I can't exactly remember. I had fed her a tiny bit of pea yesterday? Then I read that is a no no. 

She did poo a little green thing which kind of looked like it was part of the pea. That is about it though.


I feed her omega one betta flakes but I never fed her too much.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

The two can be interrelated. Constipation causes backups in the GIT which means bacteria grows in the gut. This bacteria can invade the swim bladder which causes the SBD symptoms.

If she passed green waste she passed the pea so no problems there. bettas expell waste the same color as their food when healthy.
A safer option to peas is daphnia(water fleas) which are a natural betta food and also a laxative, so they can both coax them into eating as well as help relieve their upset.
Flakes can often lead to GIT upsets because they suck up a lot of water and can clog their intestines. Pellets are considered far safer because the bettas have to chew them up- good for both their jaws and their stomach.

Oh and epsom salts can be added directly to the water for a gentle reliever. I use 2 tablespoons per 2 gallons but you can go higher or lower than that amount. It bolsters the kidneys and allows them to pass a lot of retained water.


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## Fishybitty (Dec 29, 2012)

Why thank you for the quick response. I do have pellets but they are tetra. I will get some omega soon.

Also, she kind of lays on her side and slightly looks like her spine is bent. (it isn't because sometimes she just lays on her tummy and shes straight)


I have jungle fungus clear, says bacteria and helps with sbd symptoms?



If that helps with anything. I'll try to get a picture later when I have light.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

If the soft approach hasnt been working you can begin looking into various medications. With all meds no matter the creature it is best to start gentle and work your way up until you find the one that works for you.

The spine may be her either getting into a position she can balance in or a result of the swelling, fish have far more flexible vertebrae than a human and a swelled organ can shunt it to the side a little without compromising the neural connections.

A picture would be very handy. I am always hesitant to simply medicate without more of an idea. I'm doing my best to reread back through the thread but there seems to be a few of you needing help and I am getting confused whos fish is which.


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## Fishybitty (Dec 29, 2012)

Alright, well thank you. I was watching her and she does seem slightly more active then she was the past few days. She moves around more.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Thank You Taeanna.
My fish is very bloated and has been constipated for around 20 days now. ( He hasn't passed a thing ) I have been feeding him nothing but a little daphnia for the past three weeks. I did give him the ES baths but now they are added directly to his water. Should I stop feeding him altogether? He has had the ES in his water since Sunday. Thanks.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Neptune's mom and anyone else who wants to help. I'm planning on changing 50% of his water today and adding 1 tsp of Epsom salt to his tank which already has Epsom salt in it as the current dose of roughtly 1.5 tsp/ gallon is obviously not working. I haven't given him anything to eat since I gave him brine shrimp 4 days ago and it gave him a little bit of a bloat. Can I feed him daphnia today as its been 4 days since he ate anything and before that I hadn't given him anything for 5 days so I have been pretty much starving him?

Also, are Epsom salts only effective for 24 hours because I'm not doing 100% water changes with replacements so not sure if the dose is weakened if not fresh? Over 3.5 weeks of no poop


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> Neptune's mom and anyone else who wants to help. I'm planning on changing 50% of his water today and adding 1 tsp of Epsom salt to his tank which already has Epsom salt in it as the current dose of roughtly 1.5 tsp/ gallon is obviously not working. I haven't given him anything to eat since I gave him brine shrimp 4 days ago and it gave him a little bit of a bloat. Can I feed him daphnia today as its been 4 days since he ate anything and before that I hadn't given him anything for 5 days so I have been pretty much starving him?
> 
> Also, are Epsom salts only effective for 24 hours because I'm not doing 100% water changes with replacements so not sure if the dose is weakened if not fresh? Over 3.5 weeks of no poop


Is he still bloated?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, I gave him a little bit of daphnia today. He was a little bloated already and now he's a little worse. I was afraid to feed him but i hadnt given him anything in 4 days and im afraid he'll starve. I changed 30% of his water today and am going to put in around 2/3 of a tsp now(don't have exact measurement so I put a little over 1/2 tsp) is that ok? I will try to get some pictures of his bloating but it's really hard in his plastic tank. The Epsom salt is also making the tank dirty.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> Yes, I gave him a little bit of daphnia today. He was a little bloated already and now he's a little worse. I was afraid to feed him but i hadnt given him anything in 4 days and im afraid he'll starve. I changed 30% of his water today and am going to put in around 2/3 of a tsp now(don't have exact measurement so I put a little over 1/2 tsp) is that ok? I will try to get some pictures of his bloating but it's really hard in his plastic tank. The Epsom salt is also making the tank dirty.


The Epsom salt shouldn't make his tank look dirty. I've never had it discolor the water before. Even when I've treated 3 tsp per g, the water is always clear. Are you sure you are using pure Epsom salt? 

He can go a really long time without eating. I'm very curious to see a picture of him. 

I'm going to post a couple pictures, could you tell me if you think the fish looks bloated or not. I'm asking this, because in the picture you posted he did not look bloated to me, so I just want to make sure we're on the same page of what it should look like.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Okay Tamerind, its been a while since he ate properly so you may need to give him a good nutritious feed soon. He cant pass what he doesnt have.

There is a chance your boy may have a permanent swelling- if your boy isnt showing any signs of distress it could be a war wound. I have a rescue boy called kenta who has had a swelly belly ever since I managed to save him and it hasnt hindered him. I do give him an extra fasting day every two weeks compared to the other boys though just to be on the safe side. I'll attach a pic so you can see him.

You also need to think of parasites, which are a key reason some fish don't pass waste. Has he been dosed with an anti parasitic?


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Its hard to tell from the pictures. Are they supposed to be bloated? Mine definitely is bloated now. It's still not too bad but its definitely visible now. 

Don't know why my Epsom salt is making the water and tank look dirty but it is(yellowish) maybe its making the water harder? My son even mentioned it after the second day I put in the Epsom salt that the water wasn't clear anymore. we already have hard water here. High ph. I have enclosed a picture of the Epsom salt. It says its 100% natural mineral.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Here is the picture!


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Indygrl2 said:


> Its hard to tell from the pictures. Are they supposed to be bloated? Mine definitely is bloated now. It's still not too bad but its definitely visible now.
> 
> Don't know why my Epsom salt is making the water and tank look dirty but it is(yellowish) maybe its making the water harder? My son even mentioned it after the second day I put in the Epsom salt that the water wasn't clear anymore. we already have hard water here. High ph. I have enclosed a picture of the Epsom salt. It says its 100% natural mineral.


No they are not bloated. The reason I posted them was to make sure you weren't thinking the natural shape of the body was bloat.

ETA: Hmmm.... I would recommend posting in the Betta Fish Tanks forum, and see if anyone knows in there. There are people who lurk in there who know water composition better than I do. It shouldn't be turning yellow.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I couldn't find the betta fish tank forum. I only found betta bowls, habitats and accessories and planted tanks. Is it under another section?

Also, am I supposed to dissolve the epsom salt in hot water? I just put regular conditioned room temperature( my house is set at 78 right now) water into a bottle and shake it till it dissolves. I think you told me to do that when I first asked you. Hopefully, I'm not doing something wrong with the ES that is causing the tank water to turn yellowish and dirtying the tank.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

The first one is the tanks forum, the planted tanks section covers planted tank gardening and maintenence. Both of them have people with a lot of knowledge about water parametres but the first forum is the one more likely to answer your questions.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ok thanks Taenna. I will post today about my tank.

Neptune's mom. Here is the best I could do with regard to pictures. Still no poop. Almost 4 weeks of being constipated. Do I change 30% of his water again today and put over 1/2 tsp again? Wish I had a 1/3 measure.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

No idea why the first picture posted upside down! Hope this one will post ok.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Even though my boy seams constipated, I just gave him 2 pellets of Betta bio gold . Oh my, he went balistic when he saw the packet. After two weeks of nothing but daphnia, hopefully these will be ok.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Almost 4 weeks now that my fish has been constipated. so far nothing has worked. Neptune's mom, I'm going to change 30% of water and put in 2/3 tsp epsom salt today again. Does that sound ok? Can I give him some daphnia today? I gave him a little day before yesterday but I'm afraid his bloat(which he has had now since I gave him the brine shrimp around a week ago) will get worse but at the same time I don't want him to starve. Or should I wait another day?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy, there is no change in my boy what so ever. It has been three weeks of bloat. The epsom salt has not worked , neither has the daphnia. He does not have parasites. It was a simple case of him helping himself to the plecs algae wafer. My boy is very hungry. I am not going to starve him any longer. I am going to change out 30% of his water later today and replace it with regular clean water. If the epsom salts were going to work, they would have done so by now. I am going to feed my boy a little daphnia in the morning and two betta gold pellets in the afternoon. After the pellets yesterday he was no worse.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Epsom salt does not appear to be helping my fish either but I'm going to keep trying as I have to do something. I can't just keep feeding him even though he is so hungry! I'm going to replace 30% of the water and add 2/3 tsp again today. I was thinking of giving him a little daphnia again today although that doesn't seem to be helping at all. How would I know if mine has internal parasites? His poop(when he used to poop) always looked normal. Neptune's mom, do you have any other suggestions! I'm getting desperate!


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Has anybody else got any other suggestions on this please? Both Indygrl2 & I are into are third and forth weeks of bloat / constipation. Both of our fish are normal apart from the lack of poo and the bloating. We have both done the epsom salts for a week and the feeding nothing but daphinia but just don't know what to do next. Thanks.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I changed 30% of his water again today and put in around 2/3 tsp of Epsom salt. I don't know what else to do. Didn't feed him today as I'm afraid his bloat is getting worse the more I feed him now. Neptune's mom I haven't heard from you in days. Do you have any other ideas? Does anyone have any other suggestions for Tamerind and me? Thanks


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I feel if your fishies haven't been responding to an extended soft medication regime it may be time to move on to harder things.
SBD and bloating is most usually caused from bacteria so i do suggest an antibiotic. I use Tetracycline to good effect but I understand the US has several other types I haven't used like kanaplex and maracyn. While I cannot personally recommend those two over tetra I have heard many on the site speak highly of them.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Oh dear, I'm in the UK. I can not buy any of these.
I have looked for others but not sure what to look for?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

The best that I could do was Interpet no 9 for internal bacteria infections.
The bad news is that my LFS does not have it instock. I have had to order it online which could take several days.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Just found out that I really shouldn't use that interpet no 9. It's pretty strong stuff but doesn't even contain antibiotics. Now realising that we can not buy antibiotics in UK without a prescription. I would be allowed to import a very small amount but it would take simply ages to reach me and cost a fortune.
Feel hopeless !!


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Tetracycline is in fact the name of the antibacterial compound. I live in Australia and that is the only one available to me (hence why I said in my previous post the US had more options). Look for anything with 'cycline' in its name. For instance the brand I get is called Blue Planet and their medication is called aquari-cycline.

I have been trying to find a UK brand online but google insists I want a list of human tetracycline products and some online american stores....google fail. Perhaps with a UK Ip adress your searches will be more fruitful


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Thank you Taeanna. You have been such a great help.
I will continue my search.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

The very best that I could do was order Maracyn 2 direct from USA. It's going to take a week to get here. Not sure that I have that much time. He still looks ok but is not moving about much any more. Guess he's pretty uncomfortable.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ok mine doesn't have swim bladder problems, just constipation and the bloating has started due to his being constipated after i fed him some brine shrimp last week. He's still swimming around as usual and waits for me to feed him. Do I have to give him antibiotics? I hate to give him unnecessary meds. Will antibiotics cure his constipation or do you suspect internal parasites? Could it just be a blockage? Should I increase the Epsom salts? He's in 2 tsp/gallon right now and it isn't helping.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy,
I don't have Swim bladder either but I figure that an antibiotic would help incase of a gut infection.
Only this morning I changed out about 40% of water and added about 4 teaspoons of diluted epsom salt.
Now I do have to report that something has started to happen. In the last hour his under area has opened up so large with a massive poo just stuck there? Waiting and praying !


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

That sounds like good news for you Tamerind. Is he is a 5 gallon tank? So you put 4 tsp in the 5 gallon? My 2 tsp in my 1 gallon did not help mine. I wonder if I should try to increase it. I'm afraid to put so much though. I read that they shouldn't be in 1 tablespoon per gallon for more than 15-20 minutes.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Oh my !! take a look at this...I have never seen anything like it. He has been like this for over an hour now.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Picture is unclear. I can't see him at all! Is that a 5 gallon tank with 4 tsp of Epsom salt?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Sorry it's not a good picture. The brown area is a mass of hard poo.
The tank is 20 litres. I have been lost as too how much epsom salt was in there because I had kept dosing. Today, I added 4 teasoons. ( That would have been on top of what was already in there.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Are you sure the mass is poo? Someone awhile back was told that the mass on their fish was poo. It turned out to be a tumor and the fish died the next day.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm a little confused too as I keep dosing plus I don't know if Epsom salt loses its potency after sometime. I think I will change 30% of his water and put in 1 tsp today. Don't know if that is too much but at this point I'm desperate. Hope it doesn't kill him!


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Dramaqueen, I suppose I am asuming. He has been constipated for over three weeks. It does appear to have dropped down by about 2mm in the last hour.
I will try to get a better picture.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

No, the flash is making him a bit nervy. Last thing that I want to do is stress him. It's sleep time now so lets hope things get better tomorrow.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

This is the picture I took today.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He's swimming mostly normally. Sometimes from side to side many times and sometimes he just hangs out in one place but for the most part he acts pretty normal, he's usually friendly and wants food and comes to the top and gets excited when he hears my voice and I go close.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

My poor boy passed a very large poop at night. Unfortunatly he is not at all good today. I gave him a little blood worm but he is looking very sad.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

You are lucky! He should feel better really soon now. No poop for mine yet.  I'm going to add 1 tsp of Epsom salt today and see how it goes.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Indygrl2,

Rather than continuing to reply via PM, I thought I'd just post my comments here. This thread is pretty long already, but you summarized the info in the PM that you sent, so I'll just go by what you told me in the PMs. 

Here are my comments and suggestions, based on what you told me via PM:

*1) Temperature*

You said that you don't use a heater, so the water temperature is likely to be a few degrees cooler than 'room temp,' so it's probably around 76F or so in the tank. 

This is at the lower end of the range for Bettas. I suggest getting a heater, so the temperature can be maintained at about 79-80F. Higher temperatures increase their metabolism, which also helps with the digestion of food. This helps prevent bloating and constipation.

*2) Food*

Aqueon pellets are decent, but contain a lot of grains/fillers. This can contribute to constipation and bloating in some bettas. (I have one like this.) I suggest switching to either New Life Spectrum Betta pellets or Omega One Betta Buffet. Both contain high-protein foods that bettas seem to tolerate well.

I would stop feeding him peas. Bettas are insectivores. They require a high-protein diet to stay healthy. Peas (and vegetables) are probably OK once in awhile, but I personally don't feed them to my guys, since it's not part of the 'normal' Betta diet.

You said that the brine shrimp made him bloated? How much of it did he eat?

*3) Photo*

Do you have a better photo? I can't see him clearly in the one that you posted. Try moving back from the tank by 2-3 feet, then taking some more photos. 

*4) Epsom salt*

I do use Epsom salt to treat constipation and bloating. 

It sounds like you've been using this already, but you're unsure how much is currently in the tank. How long have you been using it? It sounds like it's been at least a few weeks?

So you've tried peas, daphnia, Epsom salt and brine shrimp?

Does he eat whatever you put into the tank?

If a fish eats well, appears hungry, but remains bloated, it can indicate internal parasites. BUT before we discuss that possibility, I'd like to see a better photo of him and get your answers to the questions above.....

*5) Poop!*

Sometimes, poop is very evident. Other times, it's not. (Also, do you have any gravel in the tank?) Rather than going by visible evidence, I'd go with how he looks, how much (or little) he eats, and how bloated he is.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I have not fed him any peas since the days after he got constipated. He is very hungry and eats everything I give him and then keeps searching for food at the bottom of the tank. He was not bloated till I fed him the brine shrimp a little over a week ago although he has been constipated for a month now. His tank is bare so I can see if he poops and there has been no poop for 4.5 weeks now. I have a new 5.5 gallon tank. I need to adjust the filter and buy a heater(my local pet store didn't have a suitable one). Can I put him in the uncycled 5.5 gallon tank after a few days? Can I feed him some daphnia? I gave him a little daphnia 3 days ago. I gave him perhaps 3 tiny pieces of brine shrimp around 8-10 days ago. I put in on a toothpick. They were maybe about the size of his eye(each piece) I bought New Life Spectrum pellets but haven't been able to give it to him yet. I will try to take a better picture but its very hard as he's always moving and the tank is plastic.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He's in the Epsom salt treatment for around 9-10 days now. I put in 2/3 of a tsp after a 30% water change day before yesterday. And 2/3 tsp the day before that. Since I'm unsure of how much Epsom salt in already in the 1 gallon tank I was going to put in 1 tsp after a 30% water change today. Is that ok? Should I not give him any food today? Haven't given him daphnia since i gave him a little on Friday. I can't get a good picture of him. This is the best I can do!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

For some reason it keeps posting all my pictures upside down. Here's another one. Still not good but it seems impossible to get a good one.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I hope you can see the bloat though its not very bad.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I can't see him clearly well in the photos, unfortunately. 

How long has it been since he's eaten a 'regular' meal? 

Also, I don't know how much Epsom salt he's currently in. Salts don't evaporate, and it sounds like you've been putting in more than you're removing. Generally, it should have a laxative/fluid reducing effect within 2-3 days. And you've been using it for longer than that, so IMO, if it was going to work, it would have done so already. 

IMO, it's time to get him out of all that Epsom salt, and see if his system can handle a pellet of food.

Here's what I would do, if this was my fish:

*TODAY:*

1) I would do a series of four 25% water change, using PLAIN water (with NO Epsom salt). Just add conditioner. Wait at least 15 minutes between each.

2) I would feed him ONE New Life Spectrum pellet in the morning. (If you're very concerned about giving him a full pellet, then use a fingernail to break it in half. Feed him half in the morning, and the other half in the afternoon or evening.)

Give us an update at this time.

*TOMORROW:*

1) I would do a 30% water change using PLAIN water (with NO Epsom salt). Just add conditioner.

2) If his bloating hasn't gotten worse, I would feed him ONE New Life Spectrum pellet in the morning. 

3) If his bloating doesn't get worse, I would feed him ONE more New Life Spectrum pellet in the evening.

Give us an update at this time.

*If his bloating gets worse at ANY time:* Let us know. If he appears hungry but gets bloated after eating a single pellet, then we can talk about how to increase the temperature a bit, and also discuss using an antiparasitical. But first, let's see how he does out of the Epsom salt, and with a pellet.
.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

It's been 3.5 weeks since he's eaten any pellets(almost 4 weeks). I did do a 30% water change and put in another tsp of Epsom salt today. Neptune's mom told me to put upto 3 tsp/gallon as the 1 tsp per gallon didn't have any effect. It's hard when I'm not doing 100% water changes to know exactly how much Epsom salt is in the tank now. I have a question, if the salts dont evaporate why do so many people say to do daily water changes and redose with the Epsom salt then? 
I'm unable to get clearer pictures of him. I've tried so many times. I have a 5.5 gallon tank. I'm going to get a heater and maybe a small filter for it tomorrow. I have a filter for it but I think it's too powerful. He hates current. I have to either adjust it somehow or buy a smaller/less powerful filter. Can I put him in the 5.5 gallon after I get the heater without cycling the tank and then cycle it with him in it?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

IMO, this is not a good way to dose the Epsom salt, as you will never know how much is present. I would dose the new water directly with the correct amount. This would provide a consistent dosage. (For example, put 1 teaspoon Epsom salt into 1 gal of new water. Then use this new water for your water changes. This will provide a consistent dosage of 1 tsp/gal.) 

That said, I still think it's time to see how he does with plain (non-Epsom salt) water and a small amount of NLS food. 

He hasn't eaten in a long time. No food means no poop. It's time to get some nutrition into him, IMO.

As for the tank, do whatever you think will cause him the least amount of stress right now. Does he prefer the 1 gal or the 5 gal tank?

ETA: the frequent water changes are recommended to keep the amount of waste, toxins, bacteria, etc low. In other words, it has nothing to do with the amount of salt. But when water is removed, the salt is also removed. So it needs to be added back. 

But I still think it's time to get your guy into plain water again, and get his digestive system functioning by offering him a small protein meal of a NLS pellet. The other thing he would benefit from is a heater that would keep the water at a consistent 78-80 F temperature. Warm water will help speed his metabolism, and make him less prone to constipation and bloating.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Ok, I will start changing his water tomorrow to get him back to plain water. I have no idea if he prefers the 1 gallon or 5.5 gallon tank as he's only been in the 1 gallon tank. The 5.5 gallon tank I bought a couple of weeks ago so I could connect a heater to it and put him in there so he can be warmer. I will tell you a little more from the beginning. He was fine until last December. My house temperature used to be set at 73 F. My husband works out of state and visits once a month. When he came in December he turned the temperature down ne night to 68 and I didn't know it. The next morning when I realized it I turned it back higher. My betta seemed ok but around 5 days later he started spitting out his food and getting constipated. He would sometimes spit out a pellet or 2(i gave him 2 pellets twice a day). sometimes he would go days without spitting out and sometimes he would spit out 1 or both(mostly just 1) I would fast him for a day or two every 4 or 5 days or so and then he would poop a large piece of poop, sometimes I gave him a pea after fasting. This happened around 3 times, starving, the poop after 5 days to a week until I let him go once for 6 days without starving him even though he didn't poop. Additionally, this time he wasn't spitting out any of his food and he was eating hungrily. Someone on another forum told me not to starve him so I waited too long and this time starving and peas didn't help, nor did daphnia and now Epsom salts don't seem to be helping either. I increased the temperature of the house around 3 weeks ago to help the constipation. My husband is coming this weekend and he will surely turn down the temperature so I want to put him in the 5.5 gallon and get him a heater so he can be in a higher temperature. My only concern is the 5.5 gallon tank is not cycled as I don't have an appropriate filter yet. Can I put him in the 5.5 gallon after I change his current water and put clean water in his tank? I need to make the change by Friday. Thanks


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

What food were you feeding him then? Was it Aqueon? Aqueon is a decent food, but it is high in grains, which can cause bloating and constipation in some bettas. The New Life Spectrum (NLS) pellets have more protein (and less grains/fillers), so it should help, if that's what caused his problems.

Don't worry about a filter or cycling the 5.5 gal tank right now. If you can put a heater in it, that's more important for the moment. You can leave the filter out for now, and add it later on.

I would do the four 25% water changes today. Feed him a NLS pellet.

Do about a 30% water change tomorrow. Feed him a pellet. If he is doing Ok, give him one more pellet at night.

On Thursday, if he is ok, give him a pellet in the morning. Do another 30% water change. Wait at least 15 minutes, then move him into the bigger tank. At night, if he is ok, feed him a pellet.

Turn the heater on AFTER he is in the new tank..... It will raise the temperature SLOWLY. Slowly is good! About 1-2 degrees per hour is the fastest you want it to increase. If the heater is adjustable, set it to go to about 78-80F. 

When you buy the heater, also get a "floating glass thermometer." They cost about $3, and are very accurate. This will allow you to monitor the temp in his tank. (Here is an example of one.)

For now, don't worry about him pooping. Just monitor him in terms of bloating. Warmer water and NLS pellets should help.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Yes, I was giving him Aqueon pellets and while he was pooping fine for 4 months on that he suddenly got constipated. I have the exact same floating thermometer for my 10 gallon tank(I have danios in there) but I wasn't sure it was accurate. It shows the temperature of the tank at 80 F while my house is set at 78! 

I'm very worried about the constipation because Ive read a lot of people saying it killed their bettas. he hasn't pooped at all in a month! Do you think there might be a blockage? The poop must be huge as he has eaten for 6 days, plus peas, daphnia and once I fed him brine shrimp. 

Can I keep him for one more day in the Epsom salt and if it does nothing by tomorrow I will follow your instructions and start changing the water to clean water? I'm soo worried!


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indy, I'm sorry to hear that your boy still hasn't pooped yet.
LittleBlueFishlets plan seams pretty sound.
After starving my boy for such a long time, it did seam to work giving him the pellets. He has pooped now but he seams increadibly weak. Good luck with your little guy.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks Tamerind! Please pray for him! My prayers don't seem to be working! Im sure your little guy will get back his strength in no time! He just needs a little time to recover from his ordeal.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Good evening, Indygrl2.... 

Did you feed your betta a NLS pellet this morning? If so, how did he tolerate it?

Can you explain this comment that you made above (post 141): _"The poop must be huge as he has eaten for 6 days, plus peas, daphnia and once I fed him brine shrimp." _.... Based on my interpretation of what you've written, this food was fed to him over the course of a long period of time..... Over how long a period of time did you feed him all of this? 

All living organisms need a continuous source of nutrients to survive and thrive. The food that he ate several weeks ago is no longer giving him nutrition. So my opinion is that he needs to be reintroduced to a healthy diet. 

(If you can find mosquito larvae, that would be an EXCELLENT meal for him. It's what they eat in their natural habitat, so it's an ideal food for them. Where I live though, it's currently too cold for mosquitoes.) 

I understand that you're worried. You asked my advice, and at this point, based on what I've read on this thread.... If this was my fish, I would: (a) get a heater for his tank, (b) do a series of water changes to remove the Epsom salt, and (c) start feeding him small meals of the NLS pellets that you purchased for him. THEN if he continues to remain bloated, I would use an antiparasitical medication.

However, as I said, this is not my fish. It's yours. There are a lot of differing opinions on how to treat fish. Some people lean towards medications. Others treat holistically. But this fish is yours. So you should do what you think is best.

Best of luck to you, and to him. Let us know what you do for him, and keep us updated on his condition.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I gave him half a NLS pellet and of course he was very happy and was actually pretty excited for a while after he ate it. I think it made his bloat a little worse though. I said his poop must be huge as he hasn't pooped in so long and had eaten pellets and peas and daphnia and a little brine shrimp and none of that has come out. I'm going to take your advice and do some water changes in order to get him in clean water again. Tomorrow I'm going out to get a heater. Neptune'sMom advised me against getting sand as a substrate for the tank as she said it made her fish sick. I wanted sand so i could see if he poops. It's much harder to see with gravel. But if it makes fish sick I guess I better stick to gravel. 

I have no mosquito larvae either as it is too cold here too. Should I give him half of a pellet tomorrow morning also?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

You could just leave the tank barebottomed for now. That would allow you to see the bottom of it more easily. 

Since it's been so long since he's eaten, I don't believe that he'll be pooping from the previous meals. Food isn't inert, like plastic. It gets broken down relatively quickly. Those previous meals are gone by now. There isn't going to be any poop from a meal that was eaten weeks or months ago.

IMO:

He needs to start eating again, both for nutrition, and in order to get his digestive system functioning again. 

No food = no nutrition (which will eventually lead to poor health) 
No food = poor digestive tract functioning (which will perpetuate constipation) 
No food = no poop (if nothing goes in, nothing will come out)


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

There was another person who was asking for advice on this post about her fish that hadn't pooped for awhile. She didn't feed him much but daphnia I think during that time. She put him in Epsom salts and then he pooped a massive poop that took all night to come out she said. Mine is constipated even longer so I'm assuming he has a lot of poop to come out. I started doing the water changes with clean water and fed him another half pellet. He gets a little more bloated every time he eats now. Should I quit feeding him? Apart from that he is acting totally normal, friendly and swimming around.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

NLS half pellets are equal to the size of one Aqueon pellet. They are huge!


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He looks more bloated after he ate his pellet. Is it better to not to feed him tomorrow?


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Indygrl2, feed him a little of his regular pellets even if it bloats him.
My boy did not poop until I took him of the daphnia and started up his regular pellets. Since the massive poop on Sunday, I am being very careful with what I feed him.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I fed him half a pellet yesterday and half the day before. I didn't feed him anything today. I'm afraid to feed him as he's getting more bloated the more he eats. Your fish Tamerind pooped after you added more epsom salt to his tank. Epsom salt did not do anything for my fish unfortunately. It's over a month and I'm losing hope! On a side note, he got very excited when I fed him his half pellet yesterday and the day before. Along with the clean water replacement he seems happier and friendlier.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

I am afraid if the fasting and diet control isnt working you may want to think about moving on to harder medications at this stage.
bloating is caused from bacterial infection and retention so you may wish to move on to an antibiotic.

I personally use tetracycline but I understand the US has more than just that available such as kanaplex, use whichever you feel most comfortable with.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He wasn't bloated till 3 weeks after he got constipated though. He only started bloating after I fed him some brine shrimp 10 days ago. But I'm willing to try medicines since nothing else has worked so far.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Could someone tell me the easiest, quickest and least stressful way to transfer a betta from a 1 gallon to a new 5.5 gallon tank? I'm going to transfer mine today to his new tank. Thanks


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Indygrl2, I'm not an expert but I have had and still own several Bettas.
I also own several other fish. In my opinion the Betta fish seam to cope pretty well with change compared to a lot of other fish.
I would normally say, to move over some of the water from your existing tank and make sure that the temperature is exactly the same by using a thermometre. I doubt if you will be wanting to move any of the old water if it contains the epsom salts?. I have put plenty of Betta into new water that isn't cycled without any problems. Make sure that you use a product like filter start to get your good filter bacteria going. Whilst cycling the tank, keep testing your water. I normally do a 10% - 20% water change every other day. Good luck.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I haven't heard of filter start. What is it? I'm not connecting the filter just yet as it is too powerful for him and i need to make some adjustments first though I'm not sure how. right now, im just going to put him in with the heater connected and not turned on and then turn it on and increase the temperature slowly. I was going to take him out in a cup but I'm afraid he'll jump out. I think a net would stress him out too much. I did 3 30% water changes with clean water so his water should be ok I think to transfer with him? I wanted to put some old water in just in case. Also LittleBlueFishlets told me not to put substrate and to just leave the tank bare bottom for now so I can see if he poops. Throwing it in later will surely freak him out though but I guess for now I'll just keep it bare. That means I guess I cannot have a plant in there as there won't be any gravel to hold it down. I'm putting API stress coat in the water to condition it as I think it removes chlorine and it says its good for new tanks. So I don't need to slowly acclimate him? When I moved him from his tiny betta bowl to a 1 gallon when I got him I just poured him in with some of his old water and he was fine but this is a lot bigger tank and I want to do it right. Do I not need to keep adding some new tank water in his current tank or anything?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Indygrl2,

Sorry, I haven't been online in a few days.....

*NLS Pellet Size:*

You said that the NLS pellets are larger than the Aqueon ones? Look at the label. Does it say "New Life Spectrum BETTA pellets" on the label? 

NLS makes several types of pellets. Some are larger than others. I can't get them locally so I don't fee them -- but I was under the impression that the BETTA pellets are tiny. (Much smaller than the Aqueon in size.) That's why I've asked if you have the betta pellets....

*Feeding:*

Have you fed him today? 
If so, how much did you give him?

If not, I would give him another half-pellet this evening.

As I said previously: No food = no nutrition, and will eventually lead to poor health (and starvation).

It's been a long time since he's eaten. So, personally, I would continue to feed him. If he can only tolerate half-pellets, then give him that. But the goal is to gradually increase his meals, as it's the only way he'll get the nutrition that he needs. 

*Transferring him from the 1 gal to the 5.5 gal tank:*

For now, I would leave the filter out. I would also just do frequent water changes now, and not worry about cycling the tank yet. I recommended a barebottom tank for now, so that you can monitor his poop. I don't feel it will stress him out a lot if you add gravel or sand later on.

There are many different procedures that you can use to move him from the 1 gal into the 5.5 gal. Here is one way that should work well for your setup:


 Since you don't have a heater in the 1 gal tank: Fill the 5.5 gal tank with room temperature water.
 Add the correct amount of water conditioner. API Stress Coat is fine, for now. 
Remove about 25% of the water from his 1 gal tank. Discard it.
 Using water from the new 5.5 gal tank, refill the 1 gal tank.
 Wait at least 15 minutes. (Longer is OK.)
 Repeat the above two steps, until you've done a series of four 25% water changes, over the course of an hour.
(Note: you can include the water changes that you've already done today, as part of this process.)
 Remove about 75% of the water from his 1 gal tank.
 Lower the 1 gal tank (with its small amount of water) into the new 5.5 gal, and tilt it. Gently release him into the tank.
(Yes, you'll get a small amount of 'old' water into the new tank. This is OK. 
 Wait about 30 minutes. Turn the heater on. It should heat the water SLOWLY. You don't want it to increase the temperature more than 1 or 2 degrees F per hour! 
Ie: If the water temp is 77F at noon, it shouldn't be more than 78-79F by 1pm.
Don't let the temp increase by more than about 5 degrees F per day. 
The goal is to get it to stay consistently around 79-80F, all the time.
_(Note: When you add the filter and start to cycle the tank, I recommend using a conditioner such as Seachem Prime. It temporarily neutralizes ammonia, which can spike during the cycling period.)_

What type of plant do you want to add? Live plants are GREAT for tanks! If you want to use live plants, go ahead and use gravel/sand. If you're talking about using an artificial plant, you can put a few pieces of gravel into the plastic holder on the bottom. (Or you can use silk plants that have weighted bases.)


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

The pellet box says New Life Spectrum Betta formula. They're double the size of the Aqueon pellets. I would have to break it anyway. I had already put the white gravel know the tank before I read your post so he does have gravel in the bottom of his tank. Also I did add most of his old water as I hadn't set out enough room temperature water for the new tank as I had miscalculate how much I needed. There's probably a little bit if Epsom salt in this tank as a result but it can't be too much as I had done 3 30% water changes with fresh water before. The temperature of the water without the heater was around 78(same as room temperature) and I set the heater to 80 when I turned it on. Seems to be keeping the tank between 79 and 81 so far. Room temp is now 72. He doesn't appear as friendly or happy this morning after I switched him to his new tank. He was hanging out near the heater when I last saw him. He must still be stressed out. No poop still. More than a month now of being constipated. Should I start trying medicines? If so what kind? Here's a picture of him in his new tank. He wouldn't come out in front so I had to take one from the side.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Forgot to mention. The other pet store didn't have the 25 watt heater so I bought the 50 watt heater. I was afraid it might be too powerful but So far it's ok but it's only been 7 hours since I turned it on.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

The 50W heater is fine. It should do a good job of maintaining a constant temperature for him.

I would keep feeding him small meals. IMO, he needs food to get his digestive system started again.


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Hi Indygrl2,
He looks good in his new tank. Hope it's going ok?
If you don't use a filter and you are not planning on cycling, you do not need filter start.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Indygrl2,

He does not look bloated to me, in the photo that you posted. 

It could just be the angle, but his abdomen doesn't appear bloated or extended, from what I can see of him.

I *really* think that you need to start feeding him on a regular schedule, and gradually increase the size of his meals until he's eating *multiple* NLS pellets per day.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I gave him some daphnia the day before I put him in his new tank and yesterday evening I gave him half of a NLS pellet and he seemed a little happy for a short while after that. Then after a couple of hours he pooped! I saw a round piece of brownish poop about the size of a pea on the white gravel. His bloat has gone down. I thought he would feel better after that but in the morning now he seems tired and unfriendly and stressed out again. He hangs out a lot near the heater too. He hasn't seemed happy ever since I put him in the 5.5 gallon tank. Now he seems weak also. I thought he'll be fine once he poops but now I'm worried about him again. 

I also have to add water in his tank as the water level has come down to the minimum water level of the heater. What's the best way to do that? Fill warm water in a container and try to temperature match with a thermometer? It was easy to do it with room temperature water but now I'm not sure how to do it. Should I feed him another half pellet again? I don't know if he passed out all his poop either coz that didn't look like a month's worth.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Tamerind I am planning on adding a filter but I need to adjust the one I have. It's too powerful. I will wait a while also before I add it as he's not happy, weak and stressed out in his new tank.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

He is not going to pass "a month's worth" of poop. He is only going to poop out what he's eaten within the last 1-3 days. 

Yes, you should continue to feed him half-pellets. He needs nutrition. Feed him a half-pellet in the morning, and another half-pellet in the evening. (Gradually increase the size of his meals from there.)

Is there a cover on the tank? Having a cover will keep the water from evaporating so quickly. Also, Bettas are EXCELLENT jumpers. The tank needs a cover to prevent him from jumping out.

Do not worry about his behavior in the new tank right now. It's new to him, and he'll need time to get used to it. New things cause stress (to fish and people). Give him a few days to become accustomed to the new tank.

Here is one way to add new water to the tank:
Run the tap water until you think it's close to the water temp in his tank. Start filling a 1 gallon container. Use a thermometer to check the temperature. It should be within +/- 2 degrees F of his tank water. If it's not, add warm or cool water until you have 1 gallon of water that is close in temperature to his tank water.... 
Add sufficient water conditioner!....
Use this to refill the tank.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

The tank has a cover but it has a big opening where the filter should be so there is a large gap. The water is evaporating super fast! I used to keep him in a 1/4 gallon bowl for a few weeks after I got him(as I didn't know any better, just took advice from pet store people) and he never jumped out of it. It's probably better to be careful but I don't have a cover I could use to cover it though. He seems to be resting a lot and spaces out a lot now since he's in the new tank. He just lays at the bottom or remains still in the middle of the tank and stares into space and I cant get his attention. He's mostly just ignoring me if I try to get his attention which is so unlike him. 

Do I need to fill a one gallon container? I don't need to add that much water I don't think. Would half a gallon be ok? I will give him another half pellet today.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Tamerind, is your fish back to acting happy and normal now and is pooping regularly?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, you can use a half-gallon container. Then, add enough water conditioner for the half-gallon.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

He never acted stressed when I moved him from his 1/4 gallon to the 1 gallon. Just the opposite, he was so happy! But his 1/4 gallon probably had ammonia as I didn't do water changes that often(again out of ignorance) and it didn't have plants and gravel so it was similar to his old bowl but bigger so maybe that's why he was happy? This new tank has a fake plant, rock and gravel, a heater at the back and maybe all these new things are stressing him out. I guess I should just let him be for a few days. He's worse today after he pooped though. Excuse my being graphic but his poop was like a round brownish green ball with a tiny red tail at the end. So weird as its never looked quite like that before but then again he had never been constipated for a month before either.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

It sounds like it was a combination of the different foods (and pea) that you fed him previously. I wouldn't worry about it right now.

Keep feeding him NLS pellets. Monitor his *future* poops (not the one from today). Now that you're feeding him NLS pellets, his future poops should be a red/brown color, similar to the pellets. (That said, he may have another one that's a combination, so don't be concerned if he has one more like today's, before they start being red/brown like the pellets.)


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm really really worried about him. He had not been acting like his usual self at all especially today but now this evening he looks much worse. He's completely pale, is not swimming properly. He seems totally spaced out. He swims weird, all slow and doesn't respond to me at all. He doesn't even want to come at the top to eat. I wish I hadn't put him in his new tank now. He was so happy in his old tank. Could it be that I used API's stress coat as the water conditioner instead of the usual Top Fin? I would have maybe put it to stress in his new tank but yesterday he was ok in his new tank, a little stressed but ok. He ate his pellet and was a little friendly at times. Then this morning he was swimming but not friendly and didnt respond to me and this evening he can hardly swim. I'm so scared! I don't want him to die!

Should I turn off his light and let him rest? Could it be the heater? The temperature on the thermometer shows between 79-80. Could there be something wrong with it? The water seems warm. Could it be too warm and the thermometer is wrong? I'm scared even to add fresh water to his tank as he can barely swim and is so pale but the water level is on the level of the minimum water level on the heater and I don't want something to happen to the heater. Please tell me what to do.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I noticed he only goes on top once in a while to blow a bubble or 2 then comes back down immediately and lays on the gravel. He's definitely not ok.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

I filled some water in to increase the level in his tank. Thermometer showed 80 so I put it in. He barely moved and didn't even realize I was putting water in his tank. He came up blowed a bubble and swam back down and lay down as he's been doing all evening every 10-15 minutes or so. He is so weak. He's getting worse by the hour 

Could it be that when I turned the heater on to 80 day before yesterday night it was too hot too quick? The room temperature water said 79 so I thought turning the heater to 80 would be ok. But the water day before felt much cooler than the 80 deg water he is in now. I don't know how. I'm sooo worried!


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Indygrl2,
Really hope your fish is ok?
My boy seams fine now. Haven't noticed any poop but at least no bloating.


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Tamerind, my fish died early Monday morning. I'm still soooo sad  I miss him so much. He pooped and his bloat went away immediately so it wasn't because of constipation. I'm still trying to make sense of what happened. He was ok in his new tank for over 24 hours and then started acting weird and then sick so I don't know if it was stress from the new tank that got worse or what the problem was. Something went horribly wrong and I don't know what


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## Tamerind (Sep 19, 2013)

Oh no, that is so sad . I'm really sorry. I lost my plec this week. It is really horrible when they die. You should get another fish soon .


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Indygrl2 and Tamerind - I'm sorry for both of your losses. :-(


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## Indygrl2 (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks and thanks for the help. I cannot get another betta at least not for a long time. Too painful! I was very fond of him and he had such a great personality. It's been almost a week since he died but it's still painful to go into the dining room where I had him. The empty space where his tank sat is very sad to see. He was my buddy. I talked to him all the time and he always looked like he understood. He was the sweetest fish ever and I still miss him so much


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