# 1.8-2 gal tank question...



## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Hi everyone!

I have had bettas my entire life, always in pretty small bowls (I didn't know what I know now). I currently have two bettas, Scully, who is pretty ill right now, and Krycek, the newbie. Scully is in a brand new 5gal tank, with a heater, filter, thermometer, and a few plants. I'm hoping he will make a full recovery - he has a nasty case of fin/body rot. Krycek is in Scully's old tank, a 1.8-2gal with an under-gravel filter, a plant, leaf hammock, and a super tiny heater that is keeping the tank at 80F. I probably shouldn't have gotten a second betta, when my first is so ill, but I saw him at Petsmart and just fell in love.

Here's my question - because Krycek is in such a small tank, I know I need to do frequent water changes. I have been doing 25-50% with a gravel vacuum two to three times a week, but I am wondering if I should be doing a 100% change too? I'm not really sure how the undergravel filter really works, theoretically if the gravel is vacuumed well, then it will work and keep the tank clean, but because it is so small I'm not sure if this is sufficient. I was thinking about dividing my 5gal once Scully is feeling better, but for now Krycek has to be in the smaller tank and I want him to be happy. So far, he seems to be doing well but I just want to make sure he doesn't get sick! Scully was sick when I got him, I think, and I didn't keep up on cleaning his tank (he got a 100% water change every couple weeks when the tank got really green, didn't have a gravel vac at the time, I wasn't a very good betta owner :-() and so he just got worse and worse before I even realized what was happening (I thought he was just getting old). I feel terrible and don't want to make the same mistake again. Advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## LeoTheLakerBetta (Oct 12, 2012)

Well for that size of a tank, your minimum should be 2 water changes a week. The minimum would be 1 50% change and 1 100% change. I Like doing 2 100% but I guess it's just my preference. 

Gravel vacuums really just suck up water and also suck up most particles that foul up the water. As long as your sticking it into the gravel and it's sucking water out, you are probably doing the right thing. Hope that helps lol.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Right. I'm just confused with the undergravel filter, if that affects how much I should clean? Or if 100% water changes are still necessary with the undergravel filter? I don't mind vacuuming out the gravel everyday to keep the filter working properly if I have to, but 100% water changes are just kind of a pain if I don't really need to be doing them...you know?


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## LeoTheLakerBetta (Oct 12, 2012)

Yeah I know what you mean; I would go for 100% with an undergravel because unlike other filters, an undergravel one doesn't suck up all the bad particles.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Okay, I will start doing a 100% change once a week then. Thanks


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

In those small tanks, the undergravel filters are actually pretty useless. I even set one up in my old 33g turtle tank years ago and it sucked.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

I've never had experience with an undergravel filter before this one, but that doesn't surprise me. 

Do you think it would be better if I just removed the filter all together when I clean it next, or is the bubbler beneficial to the fish?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Bettas breathe oxygen from the surface with their labrynth organ. They don't need a bubbler


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Touche. Wasn't sure if the water movement was necessary either.

On the plus side, I have hopes for a bubble nest after the filter is removed! It's basically impossible for him to make one right now.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Yeah usually for that size tank with a filter you would need to do 2 50% changes a week. One with a gravel vac and one water only. But I have heard bad things about under gravel filters so to be on the safe side I would do 1 50% and 1 100%

EDIT: sorry just read the rest. Yeah just remove the filter.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well since you have filters... i recommend getting a liquid test kit and cycling your tanks!


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## paloverde (Nov 9, 2012)

finnfinnfriend said:


> Yeah usually for that size tank with a filter you would need to do 2 50% changes a week. One with a gravel vac and one water only. But I have heard bad things about under gravel filters so to be on the safe side I would do 1 50% and 1 100%
> 
> EDIT: sorry just read the rest. Yeah just remove the filter.


 UGF's in my opinion are an exceptional biological filter, like all things you have to know how to maintain and set them up. I find that in a small tank 10 gal and under they provide low water currents ideal for bettas and killies. I have a cycled stable 1.5 gal hex that has a ugf that i keep rcs. It's old school basic & reliable biological filtration.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

An undergravel filter is really just a plastic plate that covers the bottom of the aquarium. The plate has many small holes or slots in it. The exact physical appearance varies from one brand to another, but all work on exactly the same principle.


The undergravel filter plate is covered with aquarium gravel. Located at each back corner of the plate is a lift tube that extends from the plate to the top of the tank.
The aquarium water is drawn up the lift tube along with bubbles from an air stone at the bottom or by a small motor, called a powerhead, at the top. This pulls water from under the plate, which in turn draws water down through the gravel.
As the water passes across the grains of gravel, the nitrifying bacteria living there use the dissolved oxygen in the water to metabolize the ammonia and nitrite. The grains of gravel offer a huge total surface area for the bacteria to colonize, and the steady water movement ensures that enough oxygen will be available to support the large colonies.
As a result, the aquarium will house more than enough nitrifying bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle, and the fish will have a healthy environment.
In addition to being a biological filter, the undergravel filter acts as a mechanical filter because it catches solids as they pass into the gravel bed.
U*nfortunately, this actually works against the biological filtration process because as the spaces between the pieces of gravel fill with particles, the flow of oxygenated water past the bacteria is reduced. Over time, the effectiveness of the biological filtration is significantly impaired.*











I don't filter anything under 10 gallons but if you want to have a filter, I would look into something other then an undergravel filter. I have never used any of these myself but maybe look into either a sponge filter or Penn Plax's small world filter. Both require the use of an air pump. Teta also has one called a tetra 3i that is for tanks up to 3 gallons and that one also uses a air pump. 

This is the small world filter:
Note: Pic from amazon so those goldies are NOT mine.











> Helps keep your small aquarium healthy and looking beautiful.
> Specifically designed for small aquariums up to 5 gallons.
> Fits almost any small aquarium shape or size, and is compatible with any air pump.
> Clears discoloration and removes harmful contaminants & odors.
> High quality carbon/zeolite cartridge for chemical filtration and a foam block filter for mechanical & biological filtration


http://www.amazon.com/Small-World®-...=8-8&keywords=sponge+filter+for+1+gallon+tank

Sponge filter for up to 5 gallons - sponge filters are supposed to be one of the best for biological filtration. Plus they are gentle enough to use with bettas and fry
http://www.amazon.com/Lees-Round-Du...1-16&keywords=sponge+filter+for+1+gallon+tank

Tetra 3i
http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-Whisper...id=1352455044&sr=1-1&keywords=tetra+3i+filter


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## DiiQue (Jul 15, 2012)

+1 to the test kit suggestion by Aokashi. You never want to get the water to the point where it is a different color, but equally important - you want to make sure that the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels are where they should be. That was my mistake when I first got into fish keeping... the water was crystal clear, but my fish were dying... now I know better.


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## Wendyjo (Oct 19, 2012)

A good small filter if you want to cycle a nano tank is the Hagan Elite Mini Filter - the entire filter, which is small, is submerged in the tank - so no airstones or airpumps needed and it's very quiet. It uses one sponge which is both the mechanical and bio filtration - easy to clean and never needs to be replaced. The outflow is adjustable both in the flow itself and the direction of the flow. Awesome little filter. It's rated up to 3 gallons but it does fine up to 5 gallons with just a single betta in the tank.


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

Another amazing way to filter is live plants. If you have enough established plants you could get away with only one 50% change a week. Plus the bettas love live plants.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

As soon as Scully is done being medicated, I can put the filter media back in and start cycling his 5gal. 

I wasn't sure if it was even possible to cycle a 2 gal tank, there are a lot of conflicting views on it. If it's possible to cycle with the undergravel filter, I will just leave it be, otherwise I will just remove the filter and do more frequent water changes. I might look into the tiny filters too, though, if they are supposed to work better than the UGF. 

Thanks everyone for replying!


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## paloverde (Nov 9, 2012)

If you are not skilled with ugf set up & maintenance( i have been using them for over 40 yrs) and know how to keep them tweeked so they are highly effective. You might find that the bubble up sponge filters pictured in the prior posts would be more user friendly, or perhaps use plants as has been suggested. Just my opinion that 100% water changes can be stressful ( much less stressful than swimming ammonia though)
and human nature being what it is adjust your tank housekeeping to what you can reasonably keep up.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

I agree, 100% water changes are stressful on me and the fish! Like I said before, I don't mind using the gravel vac and siphoning the tank that way, and doing smaller changes more frequently. Is the big thing with UGF just keeping the plates clear of debris? Any tips on how to cycle a 2 gal tank with UGF? I would like to keep trying with the filter if it will make things easier on me and the fish without having to do those 100% changes...


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## Wendyjo (Oct 19, 2012)

I've never used a UGF but I imagine the cycling process is the same as it is with any filtered tank.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Right. So far I have had the fish in the tank for about a week and a half, and have done 25% water changes every other day, including the gravel/plates. I checked all the parameters today and ammonia, nitrates and nitrites are all non-existent (or at least at the lowest setting on the test strips). I probably shouldn't be doing THAT frequent of water changes if I want to try and cycle it, right? 

I was going to do a 100% change today, but I haven't yet and am debating if I should do a water change at all - I just did one on Wednesday.


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## paloverde (Nov 9, 2012)

You have a lot on your plate at the moment with sick fish and all. The best way to set up a ugf is to view your gravel as the almighty source of bacteria paradise.Gravel depth needs to be about 2 in. I mix a handful of seachem matrix ( it's just bits of pumice ) in with the gravel, it helps the bacteria keep strong colony and also helps with water flow. Use a fresh new airstone and thread it down the up lift tube so that it is at the top of the gravel layer, you dont want bubbles going under the filter plate.Adjust air flow so that the rising bubbles cause a vacuum.Dont disturb the gravel while it is cycling very important to let mother nature do her thing. If you are doing a fish in cycle carefully siphon the waste from the top of the the gravel bed while you do your pwc.without disturbing the gravel. Once the tank is fully cycled you can vacuum one 1/2 of the substrate weekly without too much bacteria loss. You can also siphon from under the ugf plate buy way of the up lift tube highly recommend doing this monthly. All of this maintenance takes very little time.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I'm not an expert on cycling but I do know you need two things. One being the filter and the 2nd being a source of ammonia - which would be the fish. In order for the ammonia to build up enough for the bacteria to do whatever it is they do with it, it needs to be at a certain level. However you don't want the ammonia to get to high or it will be bad for the betta. If you hae the liquid test kit, I would test the water every day or every other day. That way you know exactly where your ammonia stands. I tried the test strips but I found them very hard to read. There are some good threads on here about cycling and water changes and all that stuff. I know OFL had one that is stickied and I know I have seen some other good ones on here.

EDIT:



> 1-4gal with a filter
> Twice weekly-1-50% water only and 1-50% with substrate cleaning by vacuum or stir and dip method.
> Filter media needs a swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of times a month.


http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=115758


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

paloverde said:


> You have a lot on your plate at the moment with sick fish and all. The best way to set up a ugf is to view your gravel as the almighty source of bacteria paradise.Gravel depth needs to be about 2 in. I mix a handful of seachem matrix ( it's just bits of pumice ) in with the gravel, it helps the bacteria keep strong colony and also helps with water flow. Use a fresh new airstone and thread it down the up lift tube so that it is at the top of the gravel layer, you dont want bubbles going under the filter plate.Adjust air flow so that the rising bubbles cause a vacuum.Dont disturb the gravel while it is cycling very important to let mother nature do her thing. If you are doing a fish in cycle carefully siphon the waste from the top of the the gravel bed while you do your pwc.without disturbing the gravel. Once the tank is fully cycled you can vacuum one 1/2 of the substrate weekly without too much bacteria loss. You can also siphon from under the ugf plate buy way of the up lift tube highly recommend doing this monthly. All of this maintenance takes very little time.


I will try this! It doesn't sound too difficult. I'm glad my healthy fish is in the tank with the UGF, it makes things much less stressful. Thanks for all the tips


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Under gravel filters are old and out of fashion.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

fashion trends comes in cycles  don't be surprised if it comes back again, new and improved!

haha


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Well sounds like a lot of improvements.


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

*reads the first 2 sentences of the original post then skips forward to the "post" box .......


SOMEONE IS AN XFILES FAN EH? 

Sorry.. carry on...


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What is that X thing?


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## Polishdiva1 (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok this is very off topic, but carbonxxkidd.. what kind of cat is that??? lol


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I could not find anything called carbonxxkidd.


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## paloverde (Nov 9, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I could not find anything called carbonxxkidd.


carbonxxkidd is the original posters user name.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Oh I thought that was a breed of cat.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Aurie said:


> *reads the first 2 sentences of the original post then skips forward to the "post" box .......
> 
> 
> SOMEONE IS AN XFILES FAN EH?
> ...


Yep.
Just a little bit.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Polishdiva1 said:


> Ok this is very off topic, but carbonxxkidd.. what kind of cat is that??? lol


I really have no idea. I got him from a shelter, believe it or not. They said he was a siamese/tabby mix, but I think he might have some ragdoll in there too?


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I could not find anything called carbonxxkidd.



lol.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I love your cat.


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

carbonxxkidd said:


> lol.


that looks signature worthy right there


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I could not find anything called carbonxxkidd.


:-D


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> I love your cat.


Shameless plug for my cat: he has his own blog...as does my other cat and my two dogs...

(also, I'm an astronomy nerd, forgive me)

http://www.365daysofganymede.tumblr.com
http://www.365daysofcallisto.tumblr.com
http://www.365daysoftitan.tumblr.com
http://www.365daysoforion.tumblr.com


Okay, enough about them...BACK TO BETTAS!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I dont get it?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Aurie said:


> this 1 ratherstupid phone


 Was that an insult?


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## Polishdiva1 (Oct 22, 2012)

carbonxxkidd said:


> I really have no idea. I got him from a shelter, believe it or not. They said he was a siamese/tabby mix, but I think he might have some ragdoll in there too?


My gosh that's prob the most gorgeous cat I've ever seen. His nose and markings on his face make him look like a snow leopard. Yea his hair is a little long for just Siamese and tabby. I know ragdolls are supposed to be kinda flopsy when u hold them but then again so is my calico haha so idk if that's a good judge of it


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## paloverde (Nov 9, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Was that an insult?


Chocolate, I don't get it either. Insults are not kind.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Polishdiva1 said:


> My gosh that's prob the most gorgeous cat I've ever seen. His nose and markings on his face make him look like a snow leopard. Yea his hair is a little long for just Siamese and tabby. I know ragdolls are supposed to be kinda flopsy when u hold them but then again so is my calico haha so idk if that's a good judge of it


He is, sometimes. He plays fetch and thinks he's a dog, if that says anything about his breed. He does talk A LOT which is kind of a siamese characteristic, plus the blue eyes (but I guess ragdolls have those too).

No matter what he is, he's probably the coolest cat I've ever met!


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Was that an insult?


I think that was an insult to the phone replying to the wrong message, not you.


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

The post was meant to say:



ChoclateBetta said:


> I could not find anything called carbonxxkidd.


This sounds like a super awesome line for a signature


What I got was what you read.. and I quoted the wrong line. I was at a stop light using google voice texting..

"This one rather. Sorry I have a stupid phone" .. it won't even let me insult it 


Getting back onto topic:
I don't use undergravel filters only because the times I used them I let the stuff build up and well.. I had a very unhealthy tank so I'm not sure how well they actually work.

I have one of my bettas in a 5 gallon (used to be 2.5) and I use the same filter.. a Hydro micro sponge filter and I just gravel vac up the solids


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Undergravel filters from what I have read encourage fin rot in long finned fish.


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