# A friend mad and yelling at Petsmart & Petco



## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

One of my friend has been buying petsmart and petco hm for few months now. Since he live only 5 mn walking from my house, almost every night i stop at his house. He has now around 40 hm and that is true, he has 40 betta look like hm. When i look at his fishes, half are not hm, they are not 180. Most of his fishes look super delta and some look veil tail. So, we decide to sort them, at the end he has 20 true hm, the rest are super delta and few are veil tail or just delta tail. We took all of them back to petsmart and petco and asking to see the store manager. My friend was asking for a refund for all the ones that are not hm. Good that he kept all his receives. None of the manager from the both store wont give him any refunds. Plus, the one from petco even said to us, those are not petco fishes, where did you get those ??
My friend was yelling at the petco manager. 
My friend told the manager that he will write to the corporate about their attitude toward us and also asking for a refund. 
We left both stores without the fishes. My friend was so mad at them for the way they were talking to us, that is why he prefer to leave all the fishes at petco and petsmart. I saw few customers who was there took their betta back to the shelf and get out empty hands. This was a 3 weeks ago.


Yesterday, my friend called me and said that he got all his refunds back. Someone from the corporate emailed him and said that he will get his refund back. He also said that petsmart gave him a a gift card of $20 and petco $50.
Finally, everything was back to normal but my friend said that he will never go back to both store. He gave the giftcards to my sister.
He just told me today at noon that he bought some hm from aquabid and will be getting them next wednesday, i also gave him 3 of my hm. 
I also told him about this forum and he said he will join us soon.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't blame your friend for being mad.
Personally, I've seen a lot of these fish tagged incorrectly which sometimes works in the benefit of the customer if you end up buying an HM for Delta price.
IMO, it's all about being informed. You should always research before you decide to get a pet, no matter if it's a fish... you are making yourself responsible for a living creature and you should take the responsibility fully. 
Why are these fish tagged incorrectly? Because people see bettas as disposable animals and don't care to learn about them so the stores don't need worry about those things. 
Someone who is looking to buy a Maltese dog will not confuse it for a Poodle because they usually inform themselves about the breed... why should it be different with fish?


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

vilmarisv said:


> Someone who is looking to buy a Maltese dog will not confuse it for a Poodle because they usually inform themselves about the breed... why should it be different with fish?


My thoughts exactly.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I agree with the above two. And why leave the fish there because they are not HM? Wow! I personally would NOT hand MY fish over to someone who only cares about fin type and not the well being of a fish. 

It's quite common for fish to be miss labeled at the pet store, you see it everyday on here, which is why someone should do their research! But to pitch such a fit and return all the fish because they are not HM? Ok.. I'm walking away from this one. It's so sad that there are still people out there who view fish as property and money, and can toss them around and give them away with no feelings towards the fish or their well being.


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I buy my fish because I like how they look, no matter what they are priced. However, If I found a really stunning veil tail and it was in a HM King cup labeled for $25 I might pull someone aside and point out that he was mislabeled. 

Especially when veils are only $3... 

The difference between HMs and deltas can be slight, to say the least. One fish that looks like a delta as it rots away in a cup might turn out to be a HM with a little clean water and heat. Not to mention stretching and exercising daily. I started out with a delta that had a very narrow spread, less than 90 degrees and now he is almost at a full 180!
I can understand why there are so many mistakes between the two. The best practice would be to just make them the same price!


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> I agree with the above two. And why leave the fish there because they are not HM? Wow! I personally would NOT hand MY fish over to someone who only cares about fin type and not the well being of a fish.


Where on earth did you get the assumption that the friend doesnt care about well being??:shock:

I personally would be very dissapointed aswell if I got a delta or VT when I paid the price for a HM especially if I was planning to breed them or wanted a high quality fish. 
The friend is not at fault for not knowing if its a HM or not since its impossible to tell without them flaring. And if what I've heard about petco etc...they are kept in cups and not likely to flare if cold and in poor health, there is also the possibly that the fish got used to each other and not bother flaring. 

However, people at chain pet stores are not expected to have great knowledge about the different tailtypes of betta. And its highly impractical for them to go through every single fish making it flare.
As far as they are concerned they came in labeled as HM and therefore gets sold as HM.

I'm glad all is sorted out with your friends fish and refunds


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

trilobite said:


> Where on earth did you get the assumption that the friend doesnt care about well being??:shock:
> 
> I personally would be very dissapointed aswell if I got a delta or VT when I paid the price for a HM especially if I was planning to breed them or wanted a high quality fish.
> The friend is not at fault for not knowing if its a HM or not since its impossible to tell without them flaring. And if what I've heard about petco etc...they are kept in cups and not likely to flare if cold and in poor health, there is also the possibly that the fish got used to each other and not bother flaring.
> ...



Who really has the well being of their fish in mind when they leave them at a pet store because they were not the right tail type (and wouldn't have known other wise if someone didn't point it out). Before bettarainbow pointed it out, this person was quite happy with their fish. Anyways, get refunds that's great! They were sold fish that were in indeed the fish they paid for. But to leave all the fish behind? That's not having the fishes best interest in mind, you yourself just rhymed off the usual pet store experience for a fish. Money and tail type were more important than leaving these fish in a home. Personally, that's horrible to give them a home and then take them back because they were not HMs. Get your refund but keep the fish that were perfectly fine to you a few days earlier in my opinion. And I'm entitled to my opinion


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

trilobite said:


> The friend is not at fault for not knowing if its a HM or not since its impossible to tell without them flaring. And if what I've heard about petco etc...they are kept in cups and not likely to flare if cold and in poor health, there is also the possibly that the fish got used to each other and not bother flaring.


This is completely untrue. A person who has at least studied betta basics can tell a VT from a Delta from a distance, no need for the fish to flare. 
Now, if you had said Super Delta from HM, then I would agree with you... you have to look a little closer and maybe make them flare. 

For what I've read so far, it really doesnt bother me that this friend returned the fish, if the person was so misinformed and had 40 bettas I doubt their setup was much different than the store's.


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

I think the part where the friend just left the fish in the store was just cruel. If he really cared about them, he wouldn't mind if they are any other tail types other than HMs. It sounded like he just wanted them for a collection. Besides, who can really properly care for 40 bettas at the same time? Unless they have too much time on their hands, and can get on top of all the necessary water changes etc, then fine... I can't see myself having the time to take care of 40 bettas if I am working full time and running my own household.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I have to agree with Putluvs in many ways..

What is sad is.. those fish he took back? They wouldn't be able to be resold. Sounds like he had them for a bit, and since he had gotten them from 2 different stores, and one was saying they don't even sell that type.. those fish ended up in the black bag of death sadly. =(

@Cherry: There are quite a few members here who have more then 40 bettas, and they take excellent care of them and aren't constantly tending to them. Larger tanks, NPTs will ease the time it takes to care for them. I wouldn't jump on anyone for having a lot of bettas, when there are many ways to properly care for them and have a life.
What the concerns should be about having so many is what are the tank sizes and are they all heated. Not whether they have no life to be able to care for them =)


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## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

I'm surprised they gave him a refund after pitching such a fit. If he was so intent on all his fish being HMs, why didn't he know what an HM is supposed to look like? Even most novice betta enthusiasts know the difference between a VT and an HM, it's a quite obvious difference. IMO it's easy to tell the difference between delta and HM as well, even without flaring. It might be hard to tell between a super delta and an HM, but many super deltas end up stretching out to HM eventually. I hope atleast a few of those fish got good homes.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

The corporate offices gave him a refund it looks like, and they normally would anyways whenever someone complains and it's for such little money like that (for them at least). The stores themselves could not refund since apparently he brought some of the fish to the wrong stores, and nothing being wrong with the fish, etc.
Just a sad loss was all it was.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

All the fish left behind got flushed or frozen. They don't resell them.

And, if he can't tell the difference between a HM and a vailtail it IS his fault.

How does he heat,filter, and have appropriate sized tanks for 40+ male halfmoons to start with? especially if you could 'sort' them?Not saying it's impossible, just sounds very unlikely from what you've said.


if they didn't refund him, he should have taken the fish home and adopted them out at least, since he just signed their death warrant(that is NOT caring for their welfare).


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

there's nothing wrong with deltas and super deltas. they're STILL HMs, just don't spread all the way 180. i've even heard cases of deltas/super deltas spreading full 180. i've gotten mislabeled bettas before, and don't care. if it's a fish i love, i don't care about it's tail type. Ichi wasn't even labeled as a HM/Delta, but was labeled as a veiltail. score for me. Dante was supposed to be a, HM, but was a delta. whatever.

often, it's not the store that mislabels bettas, but the people they get the fish from. 

and, it's hard for someone who doesn't know bettas, to tell the difference between deltas and halfmoons.

it's nothing to get huffy about and doom so many fish to an early death, just because they're not Halfmoons. 

just my two bits.


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Friends and members, first i would like to say that we do care about betta, specially me. I have close to 200 betta in my room, males and females together.
My friend, he is completely new to betta. Those fishes that have been return to their stores have been put back on the shelf for sale not as hm but delta. They are not even super delta. Their tails when spread are a little larger than the veil tail.
Most of his hm, he purchased at petco and $14.99 each. So that amount times 15 = a lot of money spent. I'm really sorry but if someone i know want a betta hm, i will help him to make sure he will get the right product for the right price. 
That was my idea to leave all the fishes to petco manager hands, because the way he was talking to us. He said the fishes we brought were not from petco and he also said that we were trying to get easy money, like those fishes were from another store. He just piss me off, specially when my friend has all the receives with him with the betta containers. There was few customers there that day and they were not happy the way the manager was talking to us.
I know how to make difference between the hm from petco and petsmart. Petsmart hm are 99% of the time young fishes and skinny, maybe just 3 months.
Petco hm are older and more healthy, i'm sure most of you agree with me on that.
I help my friend build some shelf on the wall just like mines and he bought some 1g jar for his fishes and his room is warm. He do water change 1 time a week, i told him to do that. And, all his betta jars have a piece of indian almond leave inside.
Like i said, my friend is a newbie and still learning from me. I'm not an expert in betta but i know something.


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

The only thing I have to add is re: cherry's comment on keeping many bettas (who can keep that amount properly?)

I find that a little offensive, mostly in the way it was written. I have a 55 gallon sorority and it alone houses 30 female bettas. In addition I have 15 males in divided heated tanks. I have had over 100 bettas at one time, from my spawnings. 

If you have a good set-up for water changes like I do : 45 gallons of heated, treated R/O water and a 30 gallon waste water bucket, 30+ feet of hosing so you're not carrying water back and forth in buckets; water changes on a large amount of jars and tanks will only take you about an hour each water change day, so maybe 2-4 hours a week. Not much time at all.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

There are so many things wrong here... I'm unsubbing. I suggest going back to those stores, I bet all those fish were magically sold in 24h. *sigh*


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

cajunamy- we were going with the assumption all were male. Sororities make it easy to house many females, and large divided tanks help with males. but housing and heating 40+ males is different then jarring them to be rehommed where a smaller and more sparse container is acceptable.


I like that he does have a betta set up,i do wish he has some less...mass breeder type though for a new owner who should be focusing one a couple and giving them a good,full environment while he learns about their care.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

There are many people who can keep that many properly. Good quality breeders do.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

vilmarisv said:


> This is completely untrue. A person who has at least studied betta basics can tell a VT from a Delta from a distance, no need for the fish to flare.
> Now, if you had said Super Delta from HM, then I would agree with you... you have to look a little closer and maybe make them flare.


This is kind of what I meant. I wasn't including VTs since its easy to simply count their rays and look at their overall form. I was talking about Delta, SD and HM. All are determined by how much their caudal spreads in full flare. If you cant see them in full flare then you cant know the angle of maximum spread and therefore cant know their type/quality.
Since HM finnage is a factor of both environmental and genetic traits, it may have been possible to train some of the SDs to reach HM. 

It is very possible to have a large number of fish and keep them very well cared for.
Just because someone is new to bettas doesn't mean they don't know how to look after fish. I think its wrong to assume that this person can't adequately keep or care for bettas simply because he bought a large number of fish, some were not what they were meant to be so therefore took them back.


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## Qishi (Sep 26, 2011)

bettarainbow said:


> Friends and members, first i would like to say that we do care about betta, specially me. I have close to 200 betta in my room, males and females together.
> My friend, he is completely new to betta. Those fishes that have been return to their stores have been put back on the shelf for sale not as hm but delta. They are not even super delta. Their tails when spread are a little larger than the veil tail.
> Most of his hm, he purchased at petco and $14.99 each. So that amount times 15 = a lot of money spent. I'm really sorry but if someone i know want a betta hm, i will help him to make sure he will get the right product for the right price.
> That was my idea to leave all the fishes to petco manager hands, because the way he was talking to us. He said the fishes we brought were not from petco and he also said that we were trying to get easy money, like those fishes were from another store. He just piss me off, specially when my friend has all the receives with him with the betta containers. There was few customers there that day and they were not happy the way the manager was talking to us.
> ...


One water change a week is not adequate for 1 gallon. You need to do at least one 50% change and one 100% change once a week or ammonia really starts to build up. I can't imagine doing that for 40 bettas. That's insane lol


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Qishi said:


> One water change a week is not adequate for 1 gallon. You need to do at least one 50% change and one 100% change once a week or ammonia really starts to build up. I can't imagine doing that for 40 bettas. That's insane lol


Qishi, each person do differently when it come to care about betta. I'm not saying my way is better or your way is better as long as you have healthy fishes. 
I have 134 betta males and they are all in 1g jar. I only do water change 1 time a week. I'm not worried about ammonia or ph. I use filter water then i treat the water with indian almond leave and my fishes are healthy and blow a lot bubble each day. When you betta keep blowing bubble, that mean they are very healthy. 
I have some fighters here, i only do water change 1 time a month. Of course we can not compare a fighter to other betta, just my opinion.


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

cajunamy said:


> The only thing I have to add is re: cherry's comment on keeping many bettas (who can keep that amount properly?)
> 
> I find that a little offensive, mostly in the way it was written. I have a 55 gallon sorority and it alone houses 30 female bettas. In addition I have 15 males in divided heated tanks. I have had over 100 bettas at one time, from my spawnings.
> 
> If you have a good set-up for water changes like I do : 45 gallons of heated, treated R/O water and a 30 gallon waste water bucket, 30+ feet of hosing so you're not carrying water back and forth in buckets; water changes on a large amount of jars and tanks will only take you about an hour each water change day, so maybe 2-4 hours a week. Not much time at all.


I am sorry if my comment offended you, or any other members who has a lot of bettas and are able to take care of them properly. I had no intention of being offensive. What I meant was if the friend is new to bettas and has that many of them, how does he manage all the setup and heating and the part of taking care of them? It was written in the moment of outrage... The more the TS tried to defend his/her friend the more I find it outrageous... 

Again, sorry if my post offended anyone...:-(


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Oh i am cool, i am not offended. I just want to explain to some of you that i am not new to betta but my friend is. He just want to get as much as he can to compete with me but i don't think he will because his fishes quality are very low.
I try to teach him everything he need to know about the care of a betta and also helping him to make better choices about quality, fins, tails type, coloration. 
He is in good hands, i will make sure that his betta will always be healthy.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

bettarainbow said:


> Qishi, each person do differently when it come to care about betta. I'm not saying my way is better or your way is better as long as you have healthy fishes.
> I have 134 betta males and they are all in 1g jar. I only do water change 1 time a week. I'm not worried about ammonia or ph. I use filter water then i treat the water with indian almond leave and my fishes are healthy and blow a lot bubble each day. When you betta keep blowing bubble, that mean they are very healthy.
> I have some fighters here, i only do water change 1 time a month. Of course we can not compare a fighter to other betta, just my opinion.


Thing is.. filtered water isn't the best.. tap water is with conditioner. Filter water lacks the proper nutrients/minerals they need, that in over time, can cause them to become ill. Very highly recommended to use just tap water. And regardless the type of water, the ammonia will still build up rather quickly in a 1 gal. A 50% and a 100% water change per week is highly recommended to anything under 5g that isn't filtered, regardless of the type of water you are using.

Bubble blowing isn't just a sign of health for the most part.. it's instinct for territory, mating and even weather related when a system is moving in. I've seen many unhealthy, half dead bettas with bubble nests out there.

Fighters need the same care as others, so once a month isn't idea.

Yes, bettas can live a long time in unfavorable condition, even a couple years. But it does catch up to them, and it does take off years of their life.

Not saying you do not care for them, but that there is still the basic necessities that is needed, and it seems that you are missing a couple of them.


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

Myates said:


> Thing is.. filtered water isn't the best.. tap water is with conditioner. Filter water lacks the proper nutrients/minerals they need, that in over time, can cause them to become ill. Very highly recommended to use just tap water. And regardless the type of water, the ammonia will still build up rather quickly in a 1 gal. A 50% and a 100% water change per week is highly recommended to anything under 5g that isn't filtered, regardless of the type of water you are using.
> 
> Bubble blowing isn't just a sign of health for the most part.. it's instinct for territory, mating and even weather related when a system is moving in. I've seen many unhealthy, half dead bettas with bubble nests out there.
> 
> ...


+1,000,000...

I don't care if your way of maintaining bettas is different, there's just no possible way that keeping them in 1 gallon jars without any heating and lined up to one another without proper water changes is "healthy". I've seen PetCo bettas with full bubblenests covering the top, then come in the next day half dead. Bubblenests does not, in any way, mean "very healthy bettas"!! 

This is making me incredibly sad and disgusted... When my girl was in her 1 gallon, every other day she was having a 100% water change... That's just not okay what you're doing. Have you even tested your water on a regular basis to see what is going on with it? You don't "care/worry" about ammonia and pH? Why is that? 

Maybe you should seriously rethink your situation, and stop your friend from buying more. If all those non HMs are gone now, leave it at the 20!! Get 5 tanks that are 20 gallon longs, divide into 4, and then your friend will be set... that's only 5 heaters the friend will have to buy, 5 filters, and 5 tanks, compared to 20-ish.. Honestly, you could probably fit in 5 fish per 20 and have 4 tanks/heaters/filters. Can you even properly put in decor, hiding spots, etc in a 1 gal jar?? 

The only time I will EVER find these kinds of set ups acceptable are in breeder homes that have excellent set ups (drip system water changes, fully heated rooms, carded, etc..) or people that actually maintain their bettas properly in the 1 gallons... i.e., more than one water change per week! 

Sorry if I'm coming off harsh, but I honestly don't feel you understand what kind of situation your friend and you are in...


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

When i said filter water, i mean the water we are drinking. Yes, i go buy at my safemart that water and the water i am drinking each day, my gorgeous betta are swimming inside each day. My room is warm when it is cold because i have the heater on, so i dont need to worry about my fishes. I bought 10 bottle of 5 gallons of water specially for those fishes. When you purchase an expense fish like the ones i have, you want to make sure they will get the best care possible. When i have a betta sick, i only use salt and indian almond leave and it works well. I never have a fish die on me unless he is old and maybe it is his time to go. I have been keeping betta since i was 10 years old. 
I have a lot of friends, they have their betta die after having them for only few months or a year. Most of my fishes i have in my fish room are close to 1 year and 4 months old. My longest fish that die old was 3 years and 2 months old, that was a super fighter.
The way i care about my betta is not from my imagination, a betta breeder told me to do this way and i always done that way since.


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

laughing said:


> +1,000,000...
> 
> I don't care if your way of maintaining bettas is different, there's just no possible way that keeping them in 1 gallon jars without any heating and lined up to one another without proper water changes is "healthy". I've seen PetCo bettas with full bubblenests covering the top, then come in the next day half dead. Bubblenests does not, in any way, mean "very healthy bettas"!!
> My fish room is warm and in good temperature. Petco dont care about their fishes dont matter if it is a betta or any other type of fish. All they care is about making money, the more they sell, the more profit they are going to get.
> ...


Honestly, i think i am doing fine and my friend is in good hands. I honestly feel if you dont like the way me and my friend do then you should just move on ;-)


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I don't agree with how you're caring for your fish either. A water change a month simply because one betta is bred to fight is simply cruel. I highly doubt a leaf reduces ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites that much. IAL is more to darken the water and add healing properties similar to the water in natural settings, not to significantly reduce harmful chemicals in the environment.

Unfortunately, this has turned into a discussion of opinions where no one will win. everyone is entitled to their own opinions, which unfortunately means that everyone does not feel entitled to change their ways to gain the maximum benefit for their pet.

I agree with at least 2 water changes weekly for a 1 gallon and for heating them to 80 steadily. Water temperature is roughly 2 degrees cooler than room temp, so unless you're keeping your room at around 84 all year round, your temperature will fluctuate into less than desirable temperature range.

My final input is that maybe instead of gathering great numbers and keeping them in sparse conditions, maybe try getting only a few and lavishing them with wonderful conditions. Those members that can care for hundreds of bettas fantastically, I commend you. Those of you that seem to just buy more without really paying attention to the care they need, maybe you need to rethink.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

^^+10000


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Pataflafla said:


> I don't agree with how you're caring for your fish either. A water change a month simply because one betta is bred to fight is simply cruel. I highly doubt a leaf reduces ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites that much. IAL is more to darken the water and add healing properties similar to the water in natural settings, not to significantly reduce harmful chemicals in the environment.
> I have few fighters, large size, they are 9 months old and they are almost 3 inchs like the giant betta. If they are fully in 1g tank and the water is so dark, you can not even see them. There is a purpose why they are inside for a month or more. I dont fight betta.
> 
> Unfortunately, this has turned into a discussion of opinions where no one will win. everyone is entitled to their own opinions, which unfortunately means that everyone does not feel entitled to change their ways to gain the maximum benefit for their pet.
> ...


If i have that much betta, there is a purpose and believe me i am capable to take care all of them. Each one of my betta disregarding which kind cost me between $30 and $300 without shipping fee, price just for the males. I have 6 giant, 2 giant hm and 4 giants hmplakat. I have them for 2 years now and they are still here and healthy.
I never say those members can not take care more than 10 fishes and i will never say what they should do unless they ask me for advices or helps.
If some members just want few betta then good for them, but each person is different. I'm different so i want more than 100 betta.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Just because you do not fight your bettas, which I never advocate, doesn't mean you should keep them without a water change for a month. Even if they are bred to be more resilient, a month is a long time. And 1 gallon for a 3inch fish that might still be growing is very cramped.

As far as what I do with my fish, I play with them, I talk to them, I take pictures, I do water changes at least twice a week, I vary their diets and change their decorations around, and much more. I spend at least 2 hours a day just watching them and checking them over to be sure no one is ill and that everyone is content and happy.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't have over 10, but simply that you should consider if the care you're currently providing is enough for the ones you have before you add more.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

There is more than one way to care for a fish. 
Bettarainbows system works, there have been no health problems and the quality of his/her fish is simply astounding (have you seen those HMs!?  by the way bettarainbow, did you breed them yourself?). If someone invests large amounts of money into a fish, they are not going to kill it or give it conditions that will be detrimental to the fish.
I believe there is no problem with how bettarainbow keeps his/her fish, they are healthy, warm and happy. They get regular waterchanges and havent crapped out from sickness. 
Personally I think its arrogant to assume there is only one way of keeping bettas correctly. My bettas are in 2 litre jars...*gasp* in a barracks system with no decorations. I'm such a cruel person :roll:


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Plenty of people spend vast amount of money on an large quantities of animals and don't take care of them. Those people also tend to just want to collect instead of care for the animal. The more they have the better, which is why they don't rehome, get rid of, or stop buying more animals. those people are called hoarders. 

I'm not saying either of you are hoarders, but that there are people out there that are, and that they don't see a problem with keeping an animal like a macaw in a tiny little cage so they can fit more.

I'll admit that Bettarainbow's fish are pretty, but I find the living conditions deplorable (based off of the picture they posted to their gallery). Just because you can keep them in small areas doesn't mean it should be a permanent thing. I know they are domesticated, but look at their origins and natural habitat. rice paddies are huge. to me it looks like the luckiest bettas the OP has are in the largest tank at the bottom that is divided five times. It seems like they have a little more than a gallon each, which is more than any of the other bettas. 

I cannot bring myself to agree with these conditions, therefore I won't keep my bettas in these conditions and I will strongly urge others against it as well.
I urge you to keep them in larger, more decorated tanks, but ultimately the decision is up to you.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Breeders have plently of fish, much more than 40 the amount is in the hundreds-thousands. These fish are kept in very similar if not identical conditions. 
I used to plant their jars (still do if you count invasive duck weed...) because I had an overgrowth of them and it looked nice, but it became an inconvenience for cleaning. My bettas are carded and cant see each other, I allow then to have daily short flaring sessions to keep them aggessive, active, confident and alert. 
The sump of the barracks has a filter media which is cycled. In the sump I have put peat moss anbd oak leaves to bring down the pH and give tannins.
The sump water is topped up with rain water when it evapourates (every few days) and jars are cleaned 90% once a week. I dont like taking bettas out of their tank as I believe it stresses them. The sump water then drips into the jars, topping them back up.
The bettas we keep today are so far removed from their ansestors and 99% of them would have been bred and raised in similar conditions for years. 
That is how my fish are kept. My females are treated like males, in their jars and are just b****s to each other and anyone else.

I respect your opinions and appreciate the many ways of keeping fish. I have tried other ways, and this way works best for me. 
Yeah, I understand your concern for hoarders but I think that would be an issue only when it is not possible to physically care for these fish, and as a result they are suffering. However, I do not believe this is the case for Bettarainbow as he/she is successfully managing to keep them in good health.

Phew that was a rather long post...


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Trilobite, i'm he and not her by the way ;-)
Regarding your breeding question, no i did not breed them, i bought them from a US breeder.

This copper gold full mask hmplakat, he is one of my betta fry. He is only 3 months.


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## teasell (Aug 10, 2011)

Handsome fish Bettarainbow. Would love to see more of your Bettas


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Pataflafla said:


> Plenty of people spend vast amount of money on an large quantities of animals and don't take care of them. Those people also tend to just want to collect instead of care for the animal. The more they have the better, which is why they don't rehome, get rid of, or stop buying more animals. those people are called hoarders.
> 
> I'm not saying either of you are hoarders, but that there are people out there that are, and that they don't see a problem with keeping an animal like a macaw in a tiny little cage so they can fit more.
> 
> ...


I am really sorry but i dont have the space to keep a betta male in larger tank. I have all my 75 females in a 60g tank with a lot of plants and hiding spots. 
Like i said, i like the way i set up my betta and you or no one else will make me change that. None of my betta have die on me unless they are getting old. I'm a good betta fish keeper whatever you and other will say.
Here is one of my gorgeous salamander hm. I took that picture just few hours ago, just to show you that my fishes are fine, that guy is 8 months old. Worry about your fishes and i hope they will live a life time like mines.
That pink hm, he is 2 years and 6 months old.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Very very nice fish! and perfect proof that they are in good health and care to all those that disagree :-D
I am such a huge fan of hmpk especially metallics! that copper guy is stunning


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Whilst I think that's BettaRainbow's fish are gorgeous (particularly that coppr boy! I want him!) and obviously very healthy, I do have to wonder about this set-up: http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=2600&pictureid=17671. I've seen these tanks in shops, and they are tiny. They offer very little mental stimulation and we all know that bettas are intelligent, curious fish. A little more room to swim and even a small piece of decor for the fish to call their own would make their lives that much more interesting.  Obviously your cleaning schedule appears to be working (although I really would test water parameters just to make sure, because bettas are hardy so "my betta hasn't got sick yet" is not really a sure-fire way of making sure the water is perfect), and they are all very healthy, but I do think they could benefit from some TLC, even if just mentally.


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Bombalurina said:


> Whilst I think that's BettaRainbow's fish are gorgeous (particularly that coppr boy! I want him!) and obviously very healthy, I do have to wonder about this set-up: http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=2600&pictureid=17671. I've seen these tanks in shops, and they are tiny. They offer very little mental stimulation and we all know that bettas are intelligent, curious fish. A little more room to swim and even a small piece of decor for the fish to call their own would make their lives that much more interesting.  Obviously your cleaning schedule appears to be working (although I really would test water parameters just to make sure, because bettas are hardy so "my betta hasn't got sick yet" is not really a sure-fire way of making sure the water is perfect), and they are all very healthy, but I do think they could benefit from some TLC, even if just mentally.


That's what I meant about wondering about proper care for that many fish as a novice owner. Also the "if it's not a HM, I don't want him" mindset is so wrong on so many levels. 

To the TS,"They are not sick, it means they are healthy." is just irresponsible comment about care of anything, would you really take caring for your own children that way? I can now see how your friend housed all those bettas, and how he managed to take care of them.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

cherrybello said:


> That's what I meant about wondering about proper care for that many fish as a novice owner. Also the "if it's not a HM, I don't want him" mindset is so wrong on so many levels.
> 
> To the TS,"They are not sick, it means they are healthy." is just irresponsible comment about care of anything, would you really take caring for your own children that way? I can now see how your friend housed all those bettas, and how he managed to take care of them.


^ +1 

I have to say...this is one mess of a thread. I'm not sure what the intentions of the OP were/are either. 

Either way, having that many males in 1g. jars...I just don't see how you have the time to *correctly* house/take care of them all. I have to agree on the one 50% and one 100% water changes a week instead of what the OP is currently doing. If you allow for ammonia to build up, it *will* hurt your fish. 

And saying that they are healthy because they "are blowing bubbles" is completely absurd and downright inaccurate. As stated before, bettas can blow bubbles for a number of reasons, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are happy nor healthy. 

I suggest in lessening the number of your fish quite a bit and re-think how you are taking care of them. Just because you have 3 yr old fish (which is the minimum of their lifespan) doesn't mean they are healthy or happy fish.

And towards the breeder comment. Thai breeders have them in jars, yes. But breeding is how they make money. It is their job and they do it full time! They don't have any other jobs and are constantly doing water changes in their tanks.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

bettarainbow said:


> I am really sorry but i dont have the space to keep a betta male in larger tank. I have all my 75 females in a 60g tank with a lot of plants and hiding spots.
> Like i said, i like the way i set up my betta and you or no one else will make me change that. None of my betta have die on me unless they are getting old. I'm a good betta fish keeper whatever you and other will say.
> Here is one of my gorgeous salamander hm. I took that picture just few hours ago, just to show you that my fishes are fine, that guy is 8 months old. Worry about your fishes and i hope they will live a life time like mines.
> That pink hm, he is 2 years and 6 months old.


So if you don't have the space to keep male bettas in larger tanks, why have so many? They're living creatures, not collectible items. It seems more like you're collecting them, and your friend has gotten into that to with halfmoons. Just because it's pretty doesn't mean collect mass numbers. Have what you can realistically care for in a stimulating environment.

And why should I be worrying about my fish? In my opinion, they're in much better shape than yours. Whilst they do get sick, I'm not spending $300 just to get them. I get them from Petsmart and Walmart, and even then they are on death's door. I heal them and give them a good home, warm water, good food, and an interesting environment; not small spaces and nowhere to hide. they are in better condition physically and mentally. They have good muscle on them from swimming in more than a gallon of water and they don't feel threatened or insecure because they have caves and plants to play and hide in.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Pataflafla said:


> So if you don't have the space to keep male bettas in larger tanks, why have so many? They're living creatures, not collectible items. It seems more like you're collecting them, and your friend has gotten into that to with halfmoons. Just because it's pretty doesn't mean collect mass numbers. Have what you can realistically care for in a stimulating environment.
> 
> And why should I be worrying about my fish? In my opinion, they're in much better shape than yours. Whilst they do get sick, I'm not spending $300 just to get them. I get them from Petsmart and Walmart, and even then they are on death's door. I heal them and give them a good home, warm water, good food, and an interesting environment; not small spaces and nowhere to hide. they are in better condition physically and mentally. They have good muscle on them from swimming in more than a gallon of water and they don't feel threatened or insecure because they have caves and plants to play and hide in.


I ain't overly religious, but Amen Sister! I personally care about the physical and mental health of an animal, rather than numbers and how much someone spends on their fish. If I wanted to have 20 males, I could. But I have 6 so I can give them everything they need, including one on one attention and an interesting environment for them to explore.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Wow this is one hellova thread... It goes from a friend's experience with a mis-sold betta to railing on the way this guy keeps his fish...
That has been such a turn off to me, the way a lot of users have a sort of high-and-mighty "I love my fish more than you" attitude based on tank size and condition.

While I -totally- agree it's important for a fish to have big open space, and of course a well maintained and healthy environment, in the end, fish are individuals, and so far every poster here, no matter what stand they take on it, gives off the impressions that they know a general happy-rule for all fish. 1 gal per 1" of fish is a good standard to go by. Fish -can- be happy in just that minimum, if you spend the time to fellowship with them, entertain them, keep them active and stimiluated! In the end, yes, there are some important rules to basic betta care, but that should never be compromised at the fish's comfort. Frankly, I wanted to get my betta a huge tank, but he struggled with his 2 gallon one as it was, especially when he got older and had difficulty swimming to the top. I tried lavishing him with so many real and fake plants of every color he loved, but he seemed happy just to have a clear space in the tank to watch me work at my computer. 

As for the main topic of the OP's post, it is a shame to be ripped off at a store, no matter what your intentions are. You should get what you pay for plain and simple. As far as leaving the bettas back with the petstore, while I personally find it heartbreaking to leave any fish behind, what would you rather the friend do? Keep all the fish he didn't really want, and shove them off to the side, or return them to the store where they have a chance at a second life? It's an argument as old as time, with fish, pets and even children. "Should I abandon them for adoption, or keep them in my incapable hands?" Really, it's not up for us to judge but for the individual. If that's what the OP's friend thought was best for the fish, then who can argue that?


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## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I would be annoyed, but imo your friend probably should have paid more attention. Bettas are mislabeled a lot, usually because their fins are so clamped from stress that you can barely see the shape. At least that's how it is down here lol.
Pet stores are really strict about holding and returning live animals, especially fish which aren't worth much money. While bettas are in separate containers and won't cross-contaminate, all of the pet stores near me have a no return policy for every live animal.
Check the actual fish, people. Not the stickers on the cup.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Geeze guys leave the guy alone. Are all breeders cruel and nasty? in that case lets just not breed bettas full stop. Take a look at betta breeders fish rooms, in almost every country you will see it is a similar set up to bettarainbows. A heated room and separate jars for males. 
Just type down betta fish room into google. The fish in these conditions go on to win shows and spawn multiple times. Tell me an unhealthy and unhappy betta would not do this?

Its wrong to assume fish percieve the world as humans do and there is no way to assume whether a fish is ejoying itself (unless its dying from a disease). Of course all fish prefer a bigger tank, even the neons, aros etc. is it cruel to keep them in tanks too? 
A plant or two will not make much difference to the fish. Fish only care for decor if it can sufficiently hide them from predators. Since all our bettas have been domesticsated the majority of them wouldnt know what to do if they met a predator anyway, theyd probably expect them to feed it.
The main concerns that make up a fishes "mind" is food, predators and sex. 
Since predators are no longer an issue (unless your a cull :lol then the food and sex is very much taken care of. 

If a fish is unhealthy it will not breed. therefore only healthy fish will breed, if a fish is healthy it is happy.
Do not compare fish to humans as they are not even remotely similar.
If its not broken dont fix it.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

True. Each animal is different. Most breeders give the minimum unless the animal needs more. I'm sure if he had a betta who was sickly, scared, and refusing to eat--he'd give the fish a place to hide.

What way can we say our animals are happy? They don't smile or wag their tails. We can only see they are acting like they should--Eating, pooping, swimming, flaring, making bubble nests. 

A sick fish generally won't eat. A scared fish won't either! 

What do you define as a happy fish? Is one that is healthy and active happy? If his do not go through ammonia burns and illness.. I dunno.


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## ShyDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Except the person in question is not a breeder, as stated by the OP himself. I would wonder how big his _bedroom_ as he stated is the place he keeps his 200 fish in, really is. Seems like it would be a bit cramped with a bed +200 l gal fish tanks. just my two cents



trilobite said:


> Geeze guys leave the guy alone. Are all breeders cruel and nasty? in that case lets just not breed bettas full stop


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Wouldn't necessarily be too cramped if careful planning was made to have space for them. A floor to ceiling bookshelf like I have in my room could be used for bettas specifically. My bookshelf could easily house five 1 gallon tanks per row...and there are 10 rows. That's fifty bettas right there and it takes up less space than my desk. With a couple big bookshelves and flat spaces there would be plenty room for a lot of 1 gallons and a few extra larger tanks for just in case--if you have a fairly bare bedroom, which some people have. 


I personally would do more water changes than that, but he is the one who sees his fish every day. I've seen pictures of the fish he keeps, and they certainly look healthy and strong. Again, what can we define as 'happy' in a fish, other than being healthy and acting like a healthy fish. I wouldn't suggest a beginner to bettas to get a setup like that, as they won't be able to read their fish as well as someone who has kept them for years and years who could see a problem before it became life threatening!


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

ShyDog said:


> Except the person in question is not a breeder, as stated by the OP himself. I would wonder how big his _bedroom_ as he stated is the place he keeps his 200 fish in, really is. Seems like it would be a bit cramped with a bed +200 l gal fish tanks. just my two cents


Per the OP:
_My fish room temperature is reading now at 110 and water temperature is 85, it is the same temperature everyday. If you come and visit my fishroom, it is like a sauna._

I assume his fishroom and bedroom aren't the same room based on this statement. I hope not.
I don't agree with how he's keeping all those fish - like a collection. With that many fish, if one dies, its no big deal. There are 199 left and can get more. I have 15 and I feel like its probably too many because I try to keep them happy and healthy and its hard with that many. The picture in his album of his setup shows a lot of fish being kept in .5 gal containers DIVIDED. Not 1 gal containers as claimed.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

http://www.tigerbettas.com/myfishroom.shtml
http://www.oocities.org/samuel_phan/my_fish_room.htm
http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-GalleryBettaterritoryV3-0.htm

The most efficiant way of keeping multiple bettas.
Even if bettarainbow is not a breeder, the fact that he keeps his fish in the same environments as the top breeders shows that this method is more than suitable for his fish.
Good on you for not agreeing, thats your opinion, leave it at that. Your fish keeping method may be what works best for you while for others, your method may be an entire inconvienience. 

His fish are healthy, arent suffering from disease or illness and breed readiliy. That is the only way we can measure if a fish is getting good care.
Anything else is just crude assumptions.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

trilobite said:


> http://www.tigerbettas.com/myfishroom.shtml
> http://www.oocities.org/samuel_phan/my_fish_room.htm
> http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-GalleryBettaterritoryV3-0.htm
> 
> ...


those all look like photos of breeder's setups. there's a big difference in having a lot of pet bettas, and having breeding stock. 

i, personally, have 6. they all have tanks larger than a gallon, at least two plants per tank, and are interacted with multiple times during the day.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

They are breeders set ups. Theres actually no difference in keeping pets or breeding stock, it is simply the most effective way to keep multiple bettas at top health for breding or not. 

If you can take care of that many bettas and keep them in top health like these breeders and bettaraainbow do, then go for it! I have no problem with that.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

What is the difference if they are healthy? I would prefer mine to be in larger tanks(my only has a 5 gallon that is planted), but if they are as strong and healthy as good breeder stock, is there a problem? Why is it okay for a breeder to set up this way, but a pet owner should not set up this way if both fish are equally healthy?


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

mjoy79 said:


> Per the OP:
> _My fish room temperature is reading now at 110 and water temperature is 85, it is the same temperature everyday. If you come and visit my fishroom, it is like a sauna._
> 
> I assume his fishroom and bedroom aren't the same room based on this statement. I hope not.
> I don't agree with how he's keeping all those fish - like a collection. With that many fish, if one dies, its no big deal. There are 199 left and can get more. I have 15 and I feel like its probably too many because I try to keep them happy and healthy and its hard with that many. The picture in his album of his setup shows a lot of fish being kept in .5 gal containers DIVIDED. Not 1 gal containers as claimed.


Hmmm, you know what, the main subject was not about me but my friend problem and now look like some of you are focusing on me or the way i care about my fishes. This is the way i choose and it works for me. That photo is old, most of the fishes that was from those containers have been sold or gave to my relatives and friends. I don't keep my fishes in those anymore. 
Yes, my room is separated from my fishroom. I don't know if i am considering as a breeder or not, up to you. Honestly, i think anyone who keep betta doesn't matter if you have less than 100 or more, if you breed betta then you are a breeder.

Those photo are my new set up for my betta males and 1g is enough for a small fish like a betta. Only the giants are in bigger size tank.
Still, it is very sad that some of you are just keep complaining about me and i have not say a word about you or the way you care about your fishes


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## teasell (Aug 10, 2011)

Wow, to me looks like an awesome setup. Everything looks clean and orderly. I say good for you Bettarainbow. What works for you maybe won't work for others and vice versa. 

To everyone please stop bashing and please start getting back to discussing bettas.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

bettarainbow, those first two pics of your new setups are... fricken amazing! maybe it's just the way you took the pics, but that's pretty cool. personally, i'd toss in some live plants, like some clumps of Java moss or something. my babies enjoy their plants alot.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Very professional, looks like changing the water is quick and easy for each betta.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

That is a very nice and profesional looking set up! I'm so jealous :notworthy:


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## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

Nice setup bettarainbow! Your water changing schedule isn't terrible. It's not ideal, but I don't think you would see many fish getting sick and dying from that schedule. Although I do think you should up your water changes for your fighters, just because they can withstand a long time with poor water quality doesn't mean that it's actually good for them. You could help cut down on ammonia by adding some marimo moss balls to your tanks. Just an idea, they're small and when they grow big you can break them apart and and disperse the pieces into tanks that don't have plants yet =)


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Indyfishy said:


> Nice setup bettarainbow! Your water changing schedule isn't terrible. It's not ideal, but I don't think you would see many fish getting sick and dying from that schedule. Although I do think you should up your water changes for your fighters, just because they can withstand a long time with poor water quality doesn't mean that it's actually good for them. You could help cut down on ammonia by adding some marimo moss balls to your tanks. Just an idea, they're small and when they grow big you can break them apart and and disperse the pieces into tanks that don't have plants yet =)


me, and my bettas, prefer Java moss. it fans out, so they can hide in it(Heavy sleeps in hers! it's so cute), and does well in any lighting. Marimo balls just sit there. sometimes they float. sometimes they roll about. just my personal preference.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

OP, is this you? Because this is that same image...and they breed bettas.
http://www.mypalhs.com/forums/showthread.php?115763-About-us-._-quot-_.
Just wondering. Something's amiss if so.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Java moss would definitely be a good idea.  It can provide a bit of shelter and because the betta can move it, it does make for a more stimulating environment.


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## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

Pewpewpew, that is odd. Is that you OP? The OP has also sold fish on this website and on Aquabid, but it remains unclear as to whether he is selling fish he has bred himself or whether he's re-selling fish that he's bought from someone else. Bettarainbow, can you clear this stuff up for us??

Here's the fish for sale on aquabid:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1320297540

and here's the same fish for sale on here:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=83845


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

My view relates to the Original Post and the friend involved PLUS the way the OP keeps fish. Yes, different strokes for different folks, as they say. But I just can't view live animals as collectors items. The reason you posted this tread was because of your friend who you have influenced to purchase over 40 betta in a mad rush (you said he's new to it) and then actually take half of them back to the store because they were the incorrect tail type. No care at all of the fish involved. If there was, he would not have left them all at the store. 
I'm not even sure how much more I should comment since there appear to be pictures posted that don't add up to what has been told so far.....


This statement says a lot. this is quoted from the thread in the classifieds section that the OP posted awhile ago. It sounded strange then, but sounds worse now


> Hi everyone, i have 4 or more half moon males i want to get rid off. I have too many fishes and dont have that much time anymore to care about them.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

*Bada..tsssssss


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> OP, is this you? Because this is that same image...and they breed bettas.
> http://www.mypalhs.com/forums/showthread.php?115763-About-us-._-quot-_.
> Just wondering. Something's amiss if so.


This is the same picture that he put up..... He just got busted


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

Indyfishy said:


> Pewpewpew, that is odd. Is that you OP? The OP has also sold fish on this website and on Aquabid, but it remains unclear as to whether he is selling fish he has bred himself or whether he's re-selling fish that he's bought from someone else. Bettarainbow, can you clear this stuff up for us??
> 
> Here's the fish for sale on aquabid:
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1320297540
> ...


Yep that is me. I posted those fishes with tails damaged to see if members for this forum will take them but look like at the end, no one was able to pay for shipping fee. I didn't know what to do with them so i said i will try with aquabid if someone will buy them. So far, few buyers are bidding on it and the post is ending soon. If someone who live close to my area wanted those fishes, he/she could just ask me and i will let them go for free but no one said a thing so what should i do ?? 
Those fishes with tails damages are my babe betta.


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## hedgehog (Sep 1, 2010)

But OP is the barracks picture you posted your current set up because Pew found a that same picture attached to a website about Vietnamese betta breeders (from Vietnam) and your profile says you are from California.


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## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

Yeah, and you mentioned going to Petco in the original post, I don't think they have Petco in vietnam . Not trying to be nosey, just trying to get this straightened out =)


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## TheCrysCat (Mar 14, 2011)

Busted.


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

mjoy79 said:


> My view relates to the Original Post and the friend involved PLUS the way the OP keeps fish. Yes, different strokes for different folks, as they say. But I just can't view live animals as collectors items. The reason you posted this tread was because of your friend who you have influenced to purchase over 40 betta in a mad rush (you said he's new to it) and then actually take half of them back to the store because they were the incorrect tail type. No care at all of the fish involved. If there was, he would not have left them all at the store.
> I'm not even sure how much more I should comment since there appear to be pictures posted that don't add up to what has been told so far.....
> 
> 
> This statement says a lot. this is quoted from the thread in the classifieds section that the OP posted awhile ago. It sounded strange then, but sounds worse now



I'm really sorry but i did not influence him. Don't put the blame on me dude. He was the one who decided to buy that much. He was raising cichlid before and he get bored, that is why he decided to try betta. 
I wont say i am an expert in betta but i know the difference between a hm and super delta just looking at them. I dont collect betta, i have that much because i like to breed betta. I have 10 years of breeding experiences behind me so i know how to keep them active and healthy.


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## ShyDog (Oct 15, 2011)

You mentioned earlier in this thread that you were not a breeder



bettarainbow said:


> I dont collect betta, i have that much because i like to breed betta. I have 10 years of breeding experiences behind me so i know how to keep them active and healthy.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

When did he say he wasn't a breeder?

"I don't know if i am considering as a breeder or not, up to you. Honestly, i think anyone who keep betta doesn't matter if you have less than 100 or more, if you breed betta then you are a breeder." -Bettarainbow earlier in this thread

I understood that as he has bred bettas before. 


I do have a question--From the post on the other forum, it seems maybe you work with a group. Do you maybe have two locations--for example--you live in California, but have friends over in the Philippines and you often trade and breed together? That's what it seems like. 

See, I just had assumed he moved to the states recently


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## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

The picture in your album that I posted here was posted on 8/24. The post that Pew put a link to here was posted in December 2010 and updated April 2011. The location posted there is listed as Parañaque City, Philipines. On this site you say you're from Fresno in April 2011. 
Why would you post such an old photo to your album? This does not add up.
Yes your friend decided to purchase fish on his own but you yourself said he was trying to "compete" with you. 
You posted this thread with something in mind. Did you really think no one would notice or care about the callousness of purchasing betta just to take them back to the store? (You said you told your friend to do that).


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## ShyDog (Oct 15, 2011)

I was just actually making sure on that, he had remarked earlier in the thread that he had "bought all of them from local breeders, and had not bred them" That might be able to be seen as saying a few different things, so I recall my statement for now.




purplemuffin said:


> When did he say he wasn't a breeder
> 
> I understood that as he has bred bettas before.


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

TheCrysCat said:


> Busted.


Why busted ?? I have nothing to hide. 
I'm not that kind of person who like to show around.


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## hedgehog (Sep 1, 2010)

Ok so in all fairness bettarainbow posted that same picture of the tanks in another thread in September or so. But the link also says that its a family business in the Philippines but bettarainbow said in other threads that he lives with his family in California. Something isn't adding up. 

I should probably go back to using my internet sleuthing skills to write my paper.


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## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

With all the speculation surrounding you, I don't think you'll be able to sell any fish on this forum. And it is common sense to be suspicious about any transactions over the internet, we've had several scam artists on the forum in the past. It is odd that you haven't really mentioned how much you're into breeding yet on the forum. It's also odd that you say you have 10 years of experience, but you asked a question in the chat section trying to figure out whether buyers would want a single male or a pair. Most established breeders would already have a policy worked out. Also, the person that wrote the entry on the website from Paranaque City has a different way of writing than you do. I'm not surprised that the fish aren't selling on aquabid either, most people wouldn't be willing to pay $5 plus shipping for a fish with a damaged tail. You could give them to your friend that is just getting into bettas, he might enjoy them!


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

ShyDog said:


> I was just actually making sure on that, he had remarked earlier in the thread that he had "bought all of them from local breeders, and had not bred them" That might be able to be seen as saying a few different things, so I recall my statement for now.




Ahahaha, you all are so funny. Well i bred betta and still breeding, there is so many color out there and i wish i have a big space to breed all the color like those breeders from Thailand. I only breed colors that i love the most: butterfly, dragon and few solid colors. 
In few weeks, i will set up an open house either where i live or at my uncle place. I'm selling out a lot of my betta fry that are adults now. Probably around 15 pairs hm, 30 pairs hmplakat and 20 pairs crown tail. I will pick the best of them. I believe only those who live close to my area will be able to come, sorry for the rest who live too far away. Most of the colors will be black dragon, red dragon, orange dragon, super black, regular orange etc...


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Bettarainbow, do you maybe have family or friends in both california and the phillipines who help work with your business?  It would make a lot of things more clear.


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## bettarainbow (Apr 15, 2011)

hedgehog said:


> But OP is the barracks picture you posted your current set up because Pew found a that same picture attached to a website about Vietnamese betta breeders (from Vietnam) and your profile says you are from California.



Yes i live in California and just in case you dont know i am from Philippine and i am going back and for because i still have family there. Should i write a story about my life that involve betta?? I am a member of IBC and CBS. Also member of some betta club in Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, Vietnam, Philippine, England and France. Should i keep going... ? Would you like to see all my betta rewards also...? I use to compete a lot to any betta show but not anymore because i like to spend more time with my family and would like to finish my master.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

No no, I believe you!  The other website post made it appear as if you were living in the Philippine right now. I figured it was more of a miscommunication, and that's why some people are unsure


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Thread being closed by request.


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