# Neutering angst again



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

As you may know, I have 6 rats: Jekyll, Hyde and Darcy, who live together, and Richelieu, D'Artagnan and Willoughby, who live together. Back in the day, everyone except Darcy (I didn't have him then) lived in the same cage, but J&H are old men and needed time away from the boisterous younger rats. Eventually, the living arrangment became permanent, though they still play together happily enough. 

Then I got Darcy. I neutered him, and he now lives happily with Jekyll and Hyde. However, he's two months younger than them and quite a bit healthier. I would love it if one day he could live with the Pesticles (the younger ones) so he doesn't have to be alone after the older boys pass. Unfortunately, they can't even play together. Darcy is terrified of them, and the Pesticles, as entire males, are pretty keen to assert their dominance. They are all nearly double Darcy's size, too, so I can't blame him for being so scared. 

Tomorrow I am going to the vet to chat about neutering them. She does it chemically, with a little contraceptive bar, so it isn't invasive. The operation lasts about a minute and they are only under for maybe two or three. She's the best rat vet I've ever seen and I trust her completely, so I'm not worried about the risk factor. What I am worried about is the guilt factor. 

I don't think the neutering will affect Darty much. He's the sweetest and quietest of the three Pests, so the loss of testosterone would simply enhance his perfect personality. Willoughby is a crazy, strange litte rat (he was actually in an asylum for a while, because his mentally ill owner smuggled him in!), but I don't feel like too much of his personality is tied up in his testicles, so I wouldn't feel like it would change him too much. Richelieu, on the other hand, is a naughty, cheeky, charming little squirt, and I feel that a good deal of that comes from his whatsits. I'm worried that if I have him neutered, he will lose his craziness and change into a quiet, dignified creature. I don't want to lose my naughty little Pest. Can anyone assuage my worry?

Also, I feel guilty for taking their manhood away.

Congratulations if you read all that.


----------



## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

psh dont feel bad about taking their man hood away, they dont have manhood in their minds. They just have things down there that itch at times, kinda sounds familiar (looks at bf and giggles). As for being worried I wouldn't be. She obviously sounds like a great rat vet


----------



## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I wouldn't worry at all. I've seen dogs and cats get neutered and their personalities stayed the same. It just tends to take away some of the dominant posturing they do.

Don't feel guilty. They don't need what they don't use. XD


----------



## thekinetic (May 22, 2012)

lvandert said:


> psh dont feel bad about taking their man hood away, they dont have manhood in their minds. They just have things down there that itch at times, kinda sounds familiar (looks at bf and giggles). As for being worried I wouldn't be. She obviously sounds like a great rat vet


Just like women have those mindless things that itch too that they have a constant need to use, you know their mouth. Yeah not so funny is it!

I don't tolerate sexist comments.

I don't believe in neutering pets, I think it's cruel. I mean how would you like it if someone cut off something of yours against your will?


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't think an animal is concious about that sort of thing.
Anyways I'd go for it, it may save Darcy a lot of grief later on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

thekinetic said:


> Just like women have those mindless things that itch too that they have a constant need to use, you know their mouth. Yeah not so funny is it!
> 
> I don't tolerate sexist comments.


I meant it as a joke, not to be sexist at all. I'm not I do assure you, I honestly meant it as a joke to break the worries of sending an animal under. And I meant it more from a rats point of view. I'm assuming (could be wrong) that they don't have a concept of man hood, therefore its just another patch of skin that itches occasionally. The whole look at my bf and giggle was more comparing him to a rat. Sorry I didn't explain it in detial but I was trying to make a funny.

Now if you dont tolerate sexist comments why did you make one? 

I'm sorry you took it the wrong way but that doesn't mean you should fire right back. Two wrongs dont make a right.


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

Bomba I understand your concern many pet owners fear neutering pets. But I'd rather have sterile or neutered pets then contribute to adding more that just end up at animal control and die. I work at my local animal shelter and have for a long time the only time I've seen an attitude change was with some of the slightly aggressive dogs like they'd stop fence fighting. The fact that it's chemical neutering makes it safer. If your worried and feel guilty talk to the vet about it they can help you with that 

The kinetic what you said was incredibly rude! If you couldn't tell it was a joke boo on you, you say you don't like sexist comments yet use them yourself. Real mature your a hypocrit. And you think neuterings cruel? I'd love to see you go up to a local animal control and work with the animals that will more than likely be put down because there just arn't enough homes for them. You know how they put down kittens? They use a heart stick! Don't know what it is look it up.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

It's not really a preventing more unwanted pets case.. Slim chance two males will have babies together. It's a dominance thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

Second half was for thekinetics rude comments as well as the neutering one. Even if there neuterd they can still show dominance it's usually a personality thing. The personality may alter slightly but unless any of there personalitys come directly from the testosterone there shouldn't be a problem
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

That's where I'm left confused. Bomba if they have dominant personalities, you want to remove the dominance but not change their personalities?
I still think it's worth a shot. Is two months younger really a huge difference for rats? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

TheKinetic: over-reaction, much?

Olympia: it's not the dominance I'm worried about changing, more his naughtiness. I want him to still try and wrassle my hands and steal food from his cagemates (I steal it right back off him). I just don't want him to bully them or puff up and hiss at little Darcy. 

Oh well, vet appointment in half an hour. I'll let you all know how it goes! Thanks for your support.


----------



## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

awws they'll be fine and back in their cages before you know it


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

Hope all goes well


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks.  We didn't get them done today because they didn't have enough implants, but we've ordered them in so it should be done in a fortnight. 

TheKinetic: why is neutering cruel? It lowers agression, prevents accidental litters and they don't even realise it's been done. Besides, if you read my first post, you'd know I wasn't cutting anything off, I'm having it done chemically. That means implants, not snipping.


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

So did the vet say if it would change there attitudes?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It depends whether the dominance is testosterone-fuelled or behaviour related, as I believe someone mentioned.  However, it will at least have the advantage of reducing the ridiculous amount of buck's grease that Squibbles produces.


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

Hope all goes well then I wish you luck


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Rat musk.. what all the ladies are wearing this season.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I wore that before it was cool.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Does it stink? 
I read that male rats leave little pee trails everywhere too, and that neutering sometimes stops it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

No, it actually smells nice and musky. Think Doritos. I love the rat smell. 

Some rats piddle everywhere, but mostly they only do it when they are nervous or excited. Richelieu does it on my dad a lot, but when they are running around in the kitchen they are pretty good about not marking.


----------



## wolfiegreen (Jan 23, 2012)

I rather enjoy learning these things I'm reading lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I think all the uncomfortable feelings about the situation are all on the owner, not the rats  We tend to give our babies human emotion, when really they are animal driven by instinct. All you are doing is taking that instinct away, they won't be any different just less dominant. I wish we had the ability to neuter our boys, we have one that is dominant and won't tolerate our 2 young boys. So he's alone  His brother passed around mid April.


----------



## Cinderwolf (Dec 22, 2011)

Bombalurina said:


> TheKinetic: over-reaction, much?
> 
> Olympia: it's not the dominance I'm worried about changing, more his naughtiness. I want him to still try and wrassle my hands and steal food from his cagemates (I steal it right back off him). I just don't want him to bully them or puff up and hiss at little Darcy.
> 
> Oh well, vet appointment in half an hour. I'll let you all know how it goes! Thanks for your support.


Well all I can say is both more neutered boys are still super naughty, stealign food, wrestling with each other and the girls. Good luck with the neuters : )


----------



## shadowpony (Apr 15, 2012)

You obviosly love your rats, and they (the ones in your avi) are super cute. I think they should be fine. As for the kinetic, I think they preformed a hit n' run.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

wolfiegreen said:


> I rather enjoy learning these things I'm reading lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol. Thinking of joining the rat club?  



Pitluvs said:


> I think all the uncomfortable feelings about the situation are all on the owner, not the rats  We tend to give our babies human emotion, when really they are animal driven by instinct. All you are doing is taking that instinct away, they won't be any different just less dominant. I wish we had the ability to neuter our boys, we have one that is dominant and won't tolerate our 2 young boys. So he's alone  His brother passed around mid April.


Poor boy.  I thought that would have to Darcy's fate, at first. Luckily he was getting to accept Jekyll and Hyde even before the neuter, but it speeded the process along no end. Thank goodness for my vet. 



Cinderwolf said:


> Well all I can say is both more neutered boys are still super naughty, stealign food, wrestling with each other and the girls. Good luck with the neuters : )


That's a relief. I want Squish to still be naughty.  He earned the name Pesticle the hard way and I want him to keep it. 



shadowpony said:


> You obviosly love your rats, and they (the ones in your avi) are super cute. I think they should be fine. As for the kinetic, I think they preformed a hit n' run.


Thanks! That's Richelieu and D'Artagnan when they were 6 weeks old - now they are just shy of two years and going to lose their manhood.  I was looking at their baby photos the other day. They were so tiny! Now they are huge and fat.


----------



## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I have nearly always spayed/neutered my four legged pets. Exept when I had hamsters. XD
The only dog I had that I didn't neuter was my wolf hybrid. I believed the family I re-homed him to had him snipped.

I've never had a problem with any of them loosing their naughtiness. The marking and testosterone based aggression/dominance tend to stop though. My Fenris will be getting done soon. Besides, by having our pets fixed, it lessens the risk of cancer.

Hope everything goes well with your boys!


----------



## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Neutering any pet is the most responsible, loving thing you can do for them.

I didn't realized rats could be fixed! I sometimes wish I could neuter a certain cockatoo.....:-? :lol:


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, the implants came in so it happened today! They are so funny when they are recovering from the anaesthetic. Willoughby lived up to his nickname of Wibbly-Wobbly, got very confused and tried to stagger off the vet bench. The other two just escaped into the carry cage and fell asleep.

I also got to meet my vet's new rat Kevin. He's tiny!  He got neutered today too.


----------



## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Aww. I love that whole sleepy thing pets do afterwards. They're so cute.


----------

