# selling bettas to LFSs



## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

so, i might be a little slow on this, but recently i have been considering breeding bettas... and while i have always been concerned about having a place to sell them to (i just talked to a small pet shop in town and he said he would buy them! ) i had never even considered how much i should sell them for... i guess because i was too worried about making sure the place i sold them too wasnt terrible lol (i cant believe i havent been to this place more often-their fish department was spectacular! super clean tanks, and not one dead fish that i could see!) so now i am confident that i have a good home for them, i was wondering about how much i should sell them for? here are all the specifics i know for now: i want to breed halfmoons, i know i am going to shop around for a good breeder (most likely on aquabid-any suggestions?) i dont know the color or anything like tat of course, but i was wondering if anyone could give me a ballpark range, if possible? at least something to bring to the table lol. i mean i know im not going to get a whole lot of money for them really, he is a private pet shop owner and im a first time breeder, i just dont really want to be totally ripped off, and i dont want to be losing too much money by breeding, so it would be nice if it at least payed for itself partially, if not fully. any suggestions/comments are welcome!

also, can you think of any certain questions i should ask him? i was thinking i wanted to ask him where he stores bettas, what he does with the ones that arnt sold (the reason that made me sure that i would want to sell to him is i saw some HUGE fish there, way bigger than you would EVER see at a place like Petco, which kinda showed me that he doesnt just kill them, which is nice their was even a gigantic ....bunny? not sure actually lol, but on the side of its cage it said that is was not for sale, it was the store pet lol so cute!) what kind of advice he gives to new betta owners... it seems like reasonable questions to ask to me  i just dont want any bettas i raise to end up in a place that no one cares about them-or worse, with someone who would have cared for them right, but was misguided. (well, maybe not worse, but just as bad) i just want to make sure i give them the best start i possibly can  

also (sorry, i know im ridiculously long winded, whoever is still reading this is a trooper, and deserves a cookie lol) i was thinking maybe i should give him some facts about the betta, like what pH they were raised in, what they ate, maybe even a picture of their parents, for anyone who buys one that might want to know? i know that e gets the bettas he had now from a company, they are all veiltails in blue and green, so i doubt he has ever wanted/needed specifics before, but it seems like if he was selling halfmoons, more experienced betta keepers might want some background on them? just a thought  and if i buy from breeders, should i tell him that he can advertise them as being something special (i mean like putting breeder quality on them or something, it doesnt really matter to me but he does own a business, so i think it could matter to him) 

ok this is long enough... lol thanks in advance for any opinions on my rambling


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

idk petsmart sells HM for like 11 for males n 5 for females so im thinkin about 2 for a female and 4-5 for a male n he can sell them for twise tht. oh and were u serious about the cookie? XD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

plus u gotta couple months to even think bout sellin them until they r 3-4 months old n they are bigger n hav most of their colors
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

I've never breed Bettas, but if he's buying a ton of the babies I'd give him a good deal (like bulk price?) since if you continue breeding bettas and want to sell to him in the future it might start a good business relationship. 

Also keep in mind he's buying them to sell them, so if the price is to high he might not want to buy them anymore because he won't make a high enough profit.


I'm also considering breeding, I'm not starting until I know I have possible homes already.


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

i dont think he would want to buy the "babies" but ya the bulk idea sounds gud lets say u get 100 babies and all of them survive mand he wants them all haha then maybe like all of them for 250? thts like 2 50 each male and female and he culd sell all 100 for like 5 each n get 500 from them or he culd sell them for 10 n make 1000 but ya make a good buisness between u two like he said


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

@ justinianobrenden i was thinking something similar, the next time i go there im going to see what he sells his for, it slipped my mind today when i was there... the only problem i can see is that he only sells veiltails as far as i know, so im not sure that he knows what different tail types are worth or why they matter, so im not sure.... and i was totally serious about the cookie, come on over lol xDDD
oh, and i know i have plenty of time still, i just worry about everything, and id rather have a general plan now than wait til the last minute (like i do a lot lol) and mess something up lol

@ copperarabian that actually brings up a GREAT question that i didnt really look at too closely.... how many would he be willing to buy? hmm.... and to be honest im not sure if he will even buy females or not. i should talk that over with him too, just to be sure.  
oh and to what you said, i definitely would want to give him a bulk deal, but im not sure how many he would want so i was thinking if i knew what i would be willing to sell just one for, i would know better how many i would sell, say, 10 for. like just hypothetically, if i sold each male for 5 dollars, maybe i could sell 10 males for 40$? something like that, cuz i definately want a good relationship with whoever would be buying from me... and if he doesnt want the females i could always try selling them locally myself, or try aquabid (honestly im kinda iffy about shipping fish.... maybe :/) but that brings up another question... if i sold them to him for 5 each, should i sell them to everyone for that? or should i sell them for more because id have to do more work/ spend more money (if i was shipping or something) to sell hem? so many things to consider lol (and this isnt even the really important stuff! lol)

thanks for the comments you guys 

edit: yea i dont think he would want the babies either, i think i would wait til they were a few months old and had some good color showing before i would sell them, even if he wanted them very young i think that the majority of buyers probably wouldnt, because from what ive seen most people buy bettas for their color and fins, not to raise them lol


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

since he is dooin alot of the work on selling only he shuld get the $5 price or the 10 for $40 price u mentioned. other people sell for the full price u want or wht he is sellin them for so like 10 each n if u do it on aqua bid make sure u
1ost good pictures with them
and 2: in your price make sure u include shipping to the charges so u make money. and most petstores sell females but not halfmoons and the halfmoons fins look amazing so i culd see why they sell for more than just a normal fin


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO you would have to sell to LFS cheaper than to hobbyists because they will re-sell and they also have to consider "maintenance" plus food that needs to be spent before someone actually buys them. Further as you said, you have to do more work.

To profit from bettas you would have to produce a lot per spawn and cuture your own food. Carefully select the best ones and offer them in aquabid or something for a much higher price. As far as I know only rejects go to LFS.... that's why they're cheaper. 



> i want to breed halfmoons, i know i am going to shop around for a good breeder (most likely on aquabid-any suggestions?) i dont know the color or anything like tat of course, but i was wondering if anyone could give me a ballpark range, if possible? at least something to bring to the table lol.


I noticed that 
1. our breeders mostly ship colorful bettas (often undesired in my area) and 
2. many members here also prefer more colorful bettas compared to solid colors.

So I'd suggest you work with multi colors that shows specific patterns like butterflies, marbles etc. Your LFS has mostly blue and green. Try something that contains red, yellow, copper or anything unavailable. Or work with dragons - 2 different dragons will definitely give you a mixture of colors in fry because each dragon is made up of a jumble of genes..... Just a thought.
Further when your LFS sees the beauty of other tail types (HM), I'm certain that he will understand that they are worth more than the VT.

Good luck, hope everything works out for you.


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

yea thats what i meant, i should charge him way less than what i would sell them on like aquabid for, definitely. so 5 each or 10 for 40$ to him, but like 10 or so each on aquabid, or something like that. good idea  

yeah, ill have to borrow my friends really nice camera, because the only thing i have to take pictures with (my phone) takes terrible pictures unless the lighting is perfect (which it never is, lol)

i love the halfmoons tails on males and females, its the prettiest to me  ive actually seen a pretty decent variety of tails at the local petco (crowntails, veiltails,plakat, halfmoon, kings, and an odd spade or double here and there), but your right, they usually dont have very many females, and i would rather breed ones that came from a breeder (one that i have seen good reviews on, of course), because petcos usually dont look as nice, and i want really pretty babies xDD


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

petco fish usualy dont look nice but like anyfish with nice care from a good owner they often get brighter colors then when first bought and are healthier when put into larger tanks than the likke cup of water they come in. on aqua bid depending on how much overnight shipping wuld be or however fast u gonna send it im hopin next day air of overnight or somethin fast to reduce stress tht u shuld be chargin at least 25 maybe dependin on the fish cuz shippin can be around 10-15 per box and then charge your 10+ extra for the actual fish dependin on color and fin shape, and i thibnk u really only need cups to seperate your males when u can tell sex i read about sororitys of female bettas which arent agressive towards eachother n therefore u culd keep a bunch of the females in a big rubermaid tub together but u cant do tht with males


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

check out this betta it has amazing colors, amazing is an understatement, if he had a female of this color i wuld buy a pair to breed buti only see two males listed tht look like this from him sadly  

AquaBid.com - Your Aquatic Auction Website

goto this link to see the fish they are halfmoons and the sellers thing is called NineBettas if you wanna look at all he has for sale


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

#1) Tour the pet store and anywhere your fish will be. Ask him his procedures with the fish. See where they will be held, what conditions, etc. Find out how often they do water changes, if they balance the pH, what kind of water they are using and such then find out if he'd be willing to adapt that to what your fish are used to. Make sure everywhere your fish will be are acceptable!

#2) Find out what he does with "left overs" & sick bettas. Does he kill the sick ones? Does he send them to QT to treat? Does he send them off somewhere else? How do they diagnose and treat? What happens to bettas that have been there 3+ months? Does he continue to keep them on the shelves, or does he kill them, sell them discounted, or ship them away? It is important to know what is being done with your fish!

#3) What does he believe is proper care for a betta fish? Does he properly educate owners? I would ask if he would accept a betta fish care sheet from you to give with the fish. As well, I'd glance around his store and look at his fish items. Maybe you could write a "Check List" for your bettas that pertain to items in his store. Figure the most coft effective way to purchase everything needed and make it into a nice check list. On the other side have a care sheet about bringing home your betta and why these things are important. 

#4) Discuss more "legal" types of matters. If you find your fish to be mistreated, do you have rights? Perhaps receiving all your fish back, and if you do what are the circumstances. Do you keep the money, give back half, or give it all back? If you find out he's been lying about previous agreements, what is the consequence? Would he be willing to sign a contract stating he will perform all things asked of him as stated above and anything else you're willing? Knowing ahead of time what is expected is very important!!

#5) What are YOUR rights? If you would like a fish back, can you take that fish back? Can you refuse certain fry to go to him? Are you allowed to regularly check in on your fish, even those being kept in the back or in treatment? Etc. 

I think you should sell them for about half what he's planning to sell them for. If he wants to sell them for $10 ask about $4-$5 per fish. If he wants $12 per fish ask about $5-$6 per fish. I think if he's selling in $10-$12 range you should sell females for $2 to him and males $4 to $5ish. Easily you can make $150 off of that. You have to think, for 2 really nice fish & a decent set up you're looking at $150+. (The fish are the big money suckers!) So if you continually sell fry to him and this works out, you could make good profit. Because you don't have to pay $150 every single time you produce fish. 

Good luck!


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

@justinianobrendenomg yea i saw that one! so pretty! ninebettas is actually one of the sellers ive kind of been keeping track of, seems like they have really nice fish  haha its funny you mention sororities, because im buying females this weekend for my 20g sorority! lol man i wish we could do that with males (full grown ones of course lol) its would be so pretty! o.o

@laughing thank you! those are some great ideas, and a couple of them i hadnt even thought about! i definitely want to do the checklist, and a contract, because im sure their will be a couple i want to keep and i want to know that he has to follow through with proper care, and that he will pass good information on to the customers  thanks again for all the great advise!


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

about sororities when i set up my ten gallon im gonna hav a divider one side for the male hm im gonna get and one for the two female halfmoons i wanna get will the females be okay n this ahuld make it easier cuz he can see the females n will make his bubble nest n then i can just move one of the more pregnant females over that i think will work out better based on the flirting goin on around the divider or wuld it be bad to hav a female fulk of eggs and not breed her? im gonna do exactly wht i auggested with the fry males in seperate and the females in a big plastic tub until they r goin to be sold. and ive heard of males bein together in the same tank as long as it is big enough, they were kept together since birth, and i heard keepinh the father with fry longer makes the males less agressive sometimes if the father doesnt eat them?
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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

justinianobrenden said:


> about sororities when i set up my ten gallon im gonna hav a divider one side for the male hm im gonna get and one for the two female halfmoons i wanna get will the females be okay n this ahuld make it easier cuz he can see the females n will make his bubble nest n then i can just move one of the more pregnant females over that i think will work out better based on the flirting goin on around the divider or wuld it be bad to hav a female fulk of eggs and not breed her? im gonna do exactly wht i auggested with the fry males in seperate and the females in a big plastic tub until they r goin to be sold. and ive heard of males bein together in the same tank as long as it is big enough, they were kept together since birth, and i heard keepinh the father with fry longer makes the males less agressive sometimes if the father doesnt eat them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, that won't work. When housing females, the minimum is six females together, and five gallons is too small for that. Also, NEVER move a female into the male's tank, even if they have been flirting through the divider. When breeding bettas, the breeding tank MUST be separate from the male's tank. Females can be eggy, it won't harm them. They will either absorb them back into their bodies or release them. 

To the original poster: the likely hood that you will make a profit is extremely slim. Instead of focusing on the store/money aspect, I would look into other homes for the fish. The store may have gotten a better deal else where or could change their mind. In my opinion, selling the fry to a store isn't to reliable because most stores are interested in money, not fish care necessarily. You can't for sure know that the store will make every customer get at least a 2.5 gallon tank with a heater, decorations, and multiple weekly water changes. Just keep other homes in mind that you know will care for them. Another reason you won't make a profit is because this is your first time, a lot of money will be spent, and the fish may or may not produce a high quality spawn. 

When breeding bettas, you honestly have to forget about the money, because it can't be about that. Focus on raising a beautiful, healthy, well developed spawn, and later, maybe after a few more spawns, you can focus on producing a sellable spawn.


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

@justinianobrenden i definately agree that having 2 females together wont work. their will be nothing but each other to take aggression out on, and im sure one or both of them will die :/ i also agree that the breeding tank should be sense (not that i know from personal experience of course) but it just seems like if the male was in his home and you put someone else in their, he would be territorial wether he had a bubble nest or not. i can understand how that would be tempting tho :/

@turtle10 i really am doing it for the experience, but the problem is i want to make sure i have a place for them first, and the owner said he would buy them. even if i was selling them to individuals online or even in person, i would have no more guarantee that they would be well cared for than selling them to a pet shop. all i can do is tell them what i know, and i intended to do that to the pet shop too, if you have read earlier comments you know that.
it seems like you took this as me just wanting to make money off the fish, and that is not it at all. the reason i would sell them is because giving the away, to me, seems like they would be more likely to end up with someone who didnt care (if you put free on something, people will take it just because they can. i dont want to do that to my betta babies) and i know this isnt going to be a big earner, but im sure most people can relate to being somewhat tight for money lately, and if they can pay for them selves even a little, that would be nice (i said this before, i guess you missed that part. i know im not going into a betta selling business, i know it will cost me about twice what i will ever make, especially starting out, but if i can make even a little of that back while also assuring the best i can for my fish, i will.)


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I didn't miss anything you said, I was just giving you my advice.

I know you will tell the store owner about caring for bettas, but there is no guarantee that he will take the time to make sure the bettas are cared for more than you. All I was trying to say is that if you are selling the bettas yourself, you will make sure they have 2.5 gallons, heater, etc, whereas the pet store owner may not be as thorough and only mention a one gallon with out a heater for example. 

I know your sole purpose wasn't to make money, if you just wanted money you probably would not be taking the time to research this. You just mentioned it a lot so it seemed like something relevant.


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

it is true that i mentioned it a lot, but thats because i was seeking advice on it, not because i thought it was more important, im sorry if the post gave that impression.

the thing is, even if i am selling them to someone by myself, all i can do is give them advise, its not like im going to be going to their house and checking their setup. they would easily lie to me, say they have/will get anything they need, then not do it. before i sold them to the petshop, i would be asking him alot of questions like what he does with sick fish, ones that havent been sold, what he recommends new buyers etc. i would also be checking up on them (one of the others that gave my advice on this thread suggested asking him to sign a contract that gave me certain rights, which is definitely something i want) so hat he could hand out caresheets/suggestions that i made, i would walk around his shop and make a checklist of everything you need for a betta that he could add to the checklist, and if i saw something that violated anything on the contract, their would be consequences. (like if i saw mistreated bettas he would have to give them back to me, or sell them back at half the price he bought them for, something like that.) there is no sure way that i can think of to make sure they are all taken care of, i can only give advice. and it seems to me that if i was just selling them it would be even harder to make sure they were taken care of, because alot of people are all about convenience, and i dont sell heaters and tanks, they do. dont get me wrong, i probably will end up selling/giving away some to people i know and people that hear about them and are interested, and i will give them the same care sheets i would give to the pet store, because my advice would be the same. i wish their was a sure way to do it but theirs not, and if done right i dont see selling them to the pet shop as a detriment to the fish at all, and they also might be able find more of them homes than i would. just my way of looking at it. 


oh, and i just reread my earlier post. im sorry if i came off as being rude, that definitely wasnt my intention! i appreciate any advice you can give me whether i agree or not


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

but if i add both the male and female to the tank at the same time with a divider tht is pretty much the same thing as puttin the male in a breeder with the female in it in a jar he wuld make a bubble nest they flirt, and because he is the male he shuld claim it as his territory anyways but may allow her for breedin is wht ive read i jus dont really see a dofference besides the male wuld hav more room in a breeder cuz the female wuld be in a smaller jar
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

justinianobrenden said:


> but if i add both the male and female to the tank at the same time with a divider tht is pretty much the same thing as puttin the male in a breeder with the female in it in a jar he wuld make a bubble nest they flirt, and because he is the male he shuld claim it as his territory anyways but may allow her for breedin is wht ive read i jus dont really see a dofference besides the male wuld hav more room in a breeder cuz the female wuld be in a smaller jar
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No it is not the same, there is actually a large difference. You cannot breed in the male's tank, the female's tank, or any tank that has other fish in it, even with a divider. Plus, where would the male and females live now? They can't live in the same tank as the fry, even with a divider. The point is, if you want to spawn, you need an empty tank.

I would not breed now, I would just get another tank for the 2nd female. You cannot keep two females together, they will end up killing each other.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You are lucky to find a fish shop willing to buy the Bettas and not give store credit...generally that is how it is done....no passing of money per se' due to tax and liability reasons

Generally when dealing with live fish and pet shops you get about 50 cents to 1 dollar per fish...this also depends on the Betta quality and tail type...VT it is usually a lot less...10/$1.00-2.00...HM and DT a bit more and color is a factor as is the age..generally how well the fish looks as far as fin growth etc.....remember they have overhead to deal with too.....

Usually-once you sell or take store credit for the fish it is no longer yours and the pet shop can do with it as they like....you will be lucky if they will sign a contract saying otherwise....not saying this pet shop will not...they may be great to work with and even give unsold fish back to you after a given time...this is general information that is based on my personal experience in selling fish to fish shops that I deal with......

When you choose to breed and have lots of offspring to deal with and generally dealing with anything live....you have to deal with death too and the reality of how much or little money you can make and what your responsibility as a breeder is......some fish that go to fish shops will end up in the cichlid tank as live fish food, sick fish will be destroyed, water changes may not be done the way you want nor will education of new hobbyist in proper care to your standard....this varies from fish shop to fish shop..especially in light of the fact that there are lots of good and correct ways to keep and breed fish that may differ from yours...but their bottom line is often profit based...if they don't make a profit they can't keep the doors open...thats reality......hopefully the shop you are dealing with is different than most.......and you will get the price you want and a contract........

Good luck.....


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

oldfishlady- hmmm i dint even think of that... actually, if he wanted to work out something with store credit i would probably be willing to do that, the place is awesome and i would probably spend about half of it there anyway xDD (i was just there yesterday and i think i might be going back pretty soon to get a bunny )

i figured that it wold probably depend alot on the color and developement, that makes sense too. 

i was thinking that i would be really lucky to get a contract, it seems like that would be the kind of thing pet stores would avoid unfortunately for breeders. but i will demand that i get to see where he will keep them, i want to know what he does to sick fish, or old fish. and if he wont sign a contract, ill be checking in anyway, and i if i see something i dont like, then i wont sell them there anymore. honestly though, i think he seems like a good guy, and i know you cant just trust that but i have high hopes for him and a high opinion of everything that ive seen so far there, so ill see where that takes me 

i also know that death is an unfortunate part of dealing with animals, whether you breed or not. and i know i cant insist that he hand out care sheets unless it was in a contract, which is not very likely. but i dont see why he would protest me making them and putting them in the store, because from what ive seen he does take very good care of all animals in his pet shop, so i think he would be open to at least mentioning them to customers. 

honestly, i would take the contract over a good profit, because i get ridiculously attached to animals and i know that if i raise baby fish it will be no different. i have already relized that not every one of them is going to survive, and a relative few of them will probably get really good homes that know how to properly care for a betta, but anything i can do to up that number even a little, i will do. 

and thank you


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

i ahve a couple 2 and a halfs i culd put one in and i jus was wonderin forif i ever do breed them right now i still hav t raise and sell my guppy fry before i can do any of tht. okay so wht if i had them in their own 2.5s and then i put the male in one side of the 10 with the divider and the female in the other wuld tht work cuz like i was trying to say tht is almost the same as puttin the male in a 10 and having the female inside of a jar inside of the 10 gallon and then when i think they are ready i remove the divider and let them do their thing?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

justinianobrenden said:


> i ahve a couple 2 and a halfs i culd put one in and i jus was wonderin forif i ever do breed them right now i still hav t raise and sell my guppy fry before i can do any of tht. okay so wht if i had them in their own 2.5s *and then i put the male in one side of the 10 with the divider and the female in the other wuld tht work cuz like i was trying to say tht is almost the same as puttin the male in a 10 and having the female inside of a jar inside of the 10 gallon and then when i think they are ready i remove the divider and let them do their thing?*


Lol no actually it isn't the same thing. The female needs to be in the jar. Removing a large divider is also more disruptive. So, no divider, it really is not the same at all. 

Also you said you only have two 2.5s, but you have three fish total (male, 2 females). Where does the third fish go?


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

@justinianobrenden if you wanted a breeding tank and didnt want to spend all the money on a new tank, you could always use a clear plastic storage container, ive heard of people do that and iit worked great. and i was at home depot the other day and saw one for like 6 bucks, so im sure you could find something similar. just a thought


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## justinianobrenden (Apr 17, 2011)

i said i decided tht if i do ill jus get 2 bettas instead of 3 and okay,i didnt know removin tht wuld be disruptive
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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Justin, do you have any bettas right now?

I would just focus on raising your guppies and keeping Bettas as pets. Betta breeding is much more difficult than breeding livebearers so I would wait a few more months so you can gain experience and knowledge.


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