# After my first betta's death, I have questions to ask.



## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

Sang was dead in the morning when i checked him... I tapped his tank to see if he moves just make sure and he didnt move at all... he died on bottom of the tank. My water temp was norMal and he was very sick for sure. So i tested his tank water in petsmart and they said all of them are normal except nitrogen was little high but not in stress level. I changed his water 50% on tuesday. i was going to do salt treatment when i was going to change half water today but he didnt make it. He stayed bottom of tank all day and didnt eat. bubbles out of gills and he had black gils. also finrot. i will clean out tank with warm water and get new betta next week. Here is my question: what causes nitrogen goes up? i dont want my second betta to die...


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm sorry for your loss. It's hard to lose a friend. 
Welcome to the forum
Tip: Next time you get your water checked, ask for exact numbers so you can judge the situation for yourself.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Sorry you lost your fish. 

If you go to the forum below this forum, "Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats and Accessories", you will find quite a few stickies on the nitrogen cycle. If you check those out they will explain to you what was going on in your tank. Pretty much what you need to do is keep up on water changes though. 

You might want to get your own API Liquid Test Kit. They use the strip test kits at PSmart. Those are not as accurate as the liquid test. 

Also, I would bleach the tank just in case it was something contagious. I would bleach anything you are putting into the tank that was in the previous fish's tank. Unless it's porous, then toss it and buy a new one.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

It's not necessary to start all over just because a fish died.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> It's not necessary to start all over just because a fish died.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I'm confused. Why is it not necessary if the betta was sick? 
You don't want the disease to catch on to the new betta.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It most certainly is nescessary to restart if a fish dies from a contagious disease or a disease that you couldn't diagnose. I've dealt with all sorts of diseases, I have my fair share of fish, and I've researched a whole lot of betta diseases (some quite extensively) and if you don't use proper sanitization measures you can easily put more fish at risk. Talk to BasementBettas. She knows. 

Anyways, to keep ammonia, nitr*i*tes, and nitr*a*tes from going up you need to cycle your tank, essentially, this is where you establish a colony of nitrifying bacteria in your tank and filter that changes ammonia and nitr*i*tes to nitr*a*tes. The nitr*a*tes, which are toxic but less so then ammonia and nitr*i*tes, must be removed with regular water changes. Here are some links to good guides-
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=111960
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> I'm confused. Why is it not necessary if the betta was sick?
> You don't want the disease to catch on to the new betta.


Pathogens are ever present. Even after you bleach everything, they will come back. The best way to protect your new betta is to give them the best water quality you can - thats how you prevent them from getting sick in the first place. Bleaching everything and killing all the beneficial bacteria is counter productive, especially when you don't even know why the fish died in the first place. 

Do you have any idea how many pathogens you come in contact with just in your own house?? They're everywhere. The reason you aren't constantly sick is because you have an immune system, and so do the fish. 

I can understand why people who only keep bettas may think it necessary to sterilize everything when their fish dies, but anyone who keeps community tanks will tell you that they do not sterilize their tank when a fish dies - that's just silly. Life goes on, water changes are done, and the rest of the stock lives on. It's as simple as that, but of course you are welcome to make things significantly harder on yourself. Some people like the hard way 




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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

MattsBettas said:


> It most certainly is nescessary to restart if a fish dies from a contagious disease or a disease that you couldn't diagnose. I've dealt with all sorts of diseases, I have my fair share of fish, and I've researched a whole lot of betta diseases (some quite extensively) and if you don't use proper sanitization measures you can easily put more fish at risk. Talk to BasementBettas. She knows.
> 
> Anyways, to keep ammonia, nitr*i*tes, and nitr*a*tes from going up you need to cycle your tank, essentially, this is where you establish a colony of nitrifying bacteria in your tank and filter that changes ammonia and nitr*i*tes to nitr*a*tes. The nitr*a*tes, which are toxic but less so then ammonia and nitr*i*tes, must be removed with regular water changes. Here are some links to good guides-
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=111960
> ...


Thanks for sharing those MattsBettas. I'm bad at copy/pasting threads on here.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> It's as simple as that, but of course you are welcome to make things significantly harder on yourself. Some people like the hard way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off, I respect your opinions. I don't see it as making it harder on yourself. I see it as ensuring the safety and healthiness of your next betta. if a fish had ick, external parasites, or tuberculosis, you should always sterilze the tank. Water changes aren't the solution to everything. yes, the disease might still be there, but there is a lower chance of the fish getting sick if the tank has been cleaned. 
Jaysee, If taking care of my fish properly is the hard way, then i am obliged to follow through with it. I always put the needs of my fish first over what I FEEL like doing.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

+1

Btw fish can not get tuberculosis, they get mycobacteria and with myco sanitization is extremely difficult.


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## Rjlupin (Jul 23, 2013)

I guess it all depends which is more important to you: risking the life of a new fish because you're not entirely sure if the disease was contagious, or spending a little more effort covering all the bases. Losing a fish can be hard, and some people would prefer not to do it again if it can be helped...


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

If I am not 100% sure of the safety and/or health of a future betta, I will not get one until I can cover all of the bases and requirements. As I said before, the needs of my bettas come first. 
If someone cannot commit to doing their best to keep their pet happy and healthy, IMO, they are not yet ready to own/care for one. 
Sing, I wish you the best.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> First off, I respect your opinions. I don't see it as making it harder on yourself. I see it as ensuring the safety and healthiness of your next betta. if a fish had ick, external parasites, or tuberculosis, you should always sterilze the tank. Water changes aren't the solution to everything. yes, the disease might still be there, but there is a lower chance of the fish getting sick if the tank has been cleaned.
> Jaysee, If taking care of my fish properly is the hard way, then i am obliged to follow through with it. I always put the needs of my fish first over what I FEEL like doing.


Haha nuking your tank isn't the solution to everything, but your tank is yours to nuke  I think you should have more faith in water changes though - its not magic, but it's close ;-)

The fish most likely died from complications resulting from poor water quality. Sterilizing the tank is not going to make it any easier to maintain water quality with the next fish, but rather make it much more difficult.


I know some people think that keeping bettas is different than regular fish keeping.... But it's really not. I mean really.... What do you think people who keep community tanks do when a fish dies? Do you think they put all the rest of the fish in a bucket and bleach everything?? Do you think they toss the filter media?? No and no.

While there are rare cases of highly contagious diseases spreading throughout the tank, and from tank to tank, as Matt was referencing, it's just that - rare. And the likelihood that your fish died from such a disease is slim to none.

I don't care if you nuke it or not. I just wanted to express a different point of view on the matter because its not a cut and dry issue. Do whatever you feel is necessary.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> The fish most likely died from complications resulting from poor water quality.


I do realize that you are expressing a different point of view, and I respect that. I only hope that you respect Rjlupin, Matts, Neptunes, and my point of view as well. 
In Singsangsung's defense, he said that the water quality was good. His fish acted sick all of a sudden. Fish do get sick. Obviously keeping bettas from communities is different; as you point out, they don't clean the tanks when a fish dies. Betta owners (most of them) do. Not everyone bleaches, or "nukes" the tank, but we do take precautions. 
yes, you are expressing your opinion, but it goes against what we do to keep our fish healthy. 
P.S. The only bettas that die from poor water quality are the ones from petstores and people who don't care.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Sorry you lost your fish.
> 
> If you go to the forum below this forum, "Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats and Accessories", you will find quite a few stickies on the nitrogen cycle. If you check those out they will explain to you what was going on in your tank. Pretty much what you need to do is keep up on water changes though.
> 
> ...


Bleach it?? how? i just finished setting up the tank again. i washed all the deco througlly with hot water and did gravel vacuum 5 times and used aquarium salt instead of water conditional. and water test kit is too expensive to buy...


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Always use water conditioner. 
Rinsing with hot water is good.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

PetMania said:


> If I am not 100% sure of the safety and/or health of a future betta, I will not get one until I can cover all of the bases and requirements. As I said before, the needs of my bettas come first.
> If someone cannot commit to doing their best to keep their pet happy and healthy, IMO, they are not yet ready to own/care for one.
> Sing, I wish you the best.


Thanks. and i have 2.5gallon tank with no filter but with heater. have three small slik plants. floating thermometer. sumberian cave. also gravel. i do 50% water change twice a week and 100% water change once a week. I gave my betta bettaplus pellets. am i not meeting their needs?  so nitrogen goes up when water change isnt enough??


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

PetMania said:


> Always use water conditioner.
> Rinsing with hot water is good.


Okay then i did clean it right!  um so i need to put water conditional in? even though i used aqurium salt?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> In Singsangsung's defense, he said that the water quality was good. His fish acted sick all of a sudden. Fish do get sick.
> 
> Obviously keeping bettas from communities is different; as you point out, they don't clean the tanks when a fish dies. Betta owners (most of them) do. Not everyone bleaches, or "nukes" the tank, but we do take precautions.
> yes, you are expressing your opinion, but it goes against what we do to keep our fish healthy.


Lots of people inaccurately say their water is "good" when it is not, as you yourself eluded to in post #2. It happens ALL the time that a petstore employee says the water is "good" when it is not. 

Fin rot is not a mystery....

A practice shared by virtually everyone who keeps community tanks goes against what you all do to keep fish healthy??? That should be a clear indication that perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the importance of some of what you do to "keep fish healthy". Surely there must be one or two of us on the community side of fish keeping that know a thing or two about keeping fish healthy.....




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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Serious disease is not rare at all... I practice proper husbandry and always keep my water quality great, the vast majority of my tanks are cycled (and all of them will be within two months) I always quarantine (I have seen, first hand, what happens to some fish I get during quarantine... But that's why I quarantine) and I have still lost quite a few fish from two diseases, both of which I am yet to identify. One time it occurred in my established community tank... Every single fish in that tank died two days after showing symptoms. I had no choice but to bleach and restart or risk any fish that went back in that tank. The other time it happened, which was just in May, I lost four of my bettas... They dropsied and either died or had to be put down within 48 hours. Once again, bleach and restart. BasementBettas and Coppermoon both dealt with myco, they can attest to how... Unwise... It would be to not take any precautions after a fish died from unknown causes. 

I understand your desire to provide another perspective and that's great... But to me, restarting a cycle and doing a little extra work is well worth knowing the fish will be safe.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Next time you get your water tested, ask to see the actual results and don't just go by what the store employee tells you. 

They might be saying 'fine' for an ammonia level of .5ppm, and if your betta is exposed to this level of ammonia over a period of time it can cause stress, disease and even death. 

Nitrates (which I assume is what you mean by nitrogen) have to be pretty high to kill a fish. I would take a guess it was ammonia or nitrite poisoning that contributed to your fish's death as finrot is often an indication of poor water quality.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Next time you get your water tested, ask to see the actual results and don't just go by what the store employee tells you.
> 
> They might be saying 'fine' for an ammonia level of .5ppm, and if your betta is exposed to this level of ammonia over a period of time it can cause stress, disease and even death.
> 
> Nitrates (which I assume is what you mean by nitrogen) have to be pretty high to kill a fish. I would take a guess it was ammonia or nitrite poisoning that contributed to your fish's death as finrot is often an indication of poor water quality.


I saw test result by myself and it was the stick tests. all of the sticks didnt change a color and it was nutrual except nitrates that was a bit pinkish. yes he was in half gallon tank. tank was hard to take care of and resulted in bad water qualitiy and led it to amonia poisoning. i think...


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

Even with perfect water quality fish can still get sick a die, sometimes you just do not know how or why, a fish being stressed can open them up to sicknesses, in sorority tanks/community tanks where there is stress over who the top fish is, some fin nipping can quickly become columnaris, most of the bad bacteria that causes sicknesses are present in even the best maintained tanks, it just sits and waits for a chance to strike, so stress old age bad genetics can all lead to a fish getting sick, plus bad water quality pretty much equals dead fish


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## Rjlupin (Jul 23, 2013)

Well that may have been your problem... Bettas need at least 2.5 gallons, and that's minimum. Unless you changed the water very frequently, he would have quickly been dying in his own ammonia. Even with frequent water changes, half a gallon is nowhere near enough space for a medium sized fish like a betta.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

SingSangSung said:


> I saw test result by myself and it was the stick tests. all of the sticks didnt change a color and it was nutrual except nitrates that was a bit pinkish. yes he was in half gallon tank. tank was hard to take care of and resulted in bad water qualitiy and led it to amonia poisoning. i think...


I respect the fact that you said that - it takes a lot of guts to admit one's fault. Don't beat yourself up about it though - it happens to a lot of people. It's not easy to keep a fish in such a small unfiltered tank. I know you want to go get another fish, but I think it would be best if you held off and got a larger, filtered tank so that the fish is not dependent on water changes to survive. Some people are happy to constantly change the water in their small unfiltered containers, while other people aren't . A larger, filtered tank will give you piece of mind knowing that your fish won't die if you don't change the water for a week or two - a luxury that I believe all fish should have.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

If you don't have the time or want to do frequent water changes, the best
Is to get a large tank, filtered. That way, you will only need to do water changes
Every 2-4 weeks (every two weeks is better).


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

SingSangSung said:


> Thanks. and i have 2.5gallon tank with no filter but with heater. have three small slik plants. floating thermometer. sumberian cave. also gravel. i do 50% water change twice a week and 100% water change once a week. I gave my betta bettaplus pellets. am i not meeting their needs?  so nitrogen goes up when water change isnt enough??


You have at least 2 gallons, a heater, food, a caring heart, and knowledge of water changes, yes you are meeting their needs. If you don't want to do as many water changes: get a filter. You will still have to do water changes but not as frequently.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

SingSangSung said:


> Okay then i did clean it right!  um so i need to put water conditional in? even though i used aqurium salt?


Aquarium salt is not water conditioner. It is harmful to bettas if used in the wrong way. Get fresh tap water. Put 2 drops/per gallon of API Stress Coat, and then you can start cycling your tank.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Lots of people inaccurately say their water is "good" when it is not, as you yourself eluded to in post #2. It happens ALL the time that a petstore employee says the water is "good" when it is not.
> 
> Fin rot is not a mystery....
> 
> ...


Are you trying to say that i dont know whats best for my pets? I know how to keep my fish healthy. I don't put them at risk by putting them in a contaminated tank. I have a community tank. When a fish dies, I do a lot to ensure that the other fish are healthy. Not virtually everyone does what you do. Do you own a betta? Do you have knowledge on the upkeep of bettas? 
Again, it would be nice if you would respect opinions and decisions as I did for you. I am just trying to help singsangsung figure out what he needs to do. That's why I am here: to help others. :-D


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

MattsBettas said:


> Serious disease is not rare at all... I practice proper husbandry and always keep my water quality great, the vast majority of my tanks are cycled (and all of them will be within two months) I always quarantine (I have seen, first hand, what happens to some fish I get during quarantine... But that's why I quarantine) and I have still lost quite a few fish from two diseases, both of which I am yet to identify. One time it occurred in my established community tank... Every single fish in that tank died two days after showing symptoms. I had no choice but to bleach and restart or risk any fish that went back in that tank. The other time it happened, which was just in May, I lost four of my bettas... They dropsied and either died or had to be put down within 48 hours. Once again, bleach and restart. BasementBettas and Coppermoon both dealt with myco, they can attest to how... Unwise... It would be to not take any precautions after a fish died from unknown causes.


It's still very rare to see highly infectious disease wipe out a tank. Or maybe that's the one thing people choose not to start threads about. That and poisonous gas bubbles.

I do not think its unwise to forgo safeguarding against remote possibilities, but some cannot be too safe. But as was mentioned, you can take every precaution ever conceived and still wind up with a sick/dying fish.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

i heard that Filter in such small tank is not good. so i changed my tank without filter. and um then do i need to change water again? but in the box it says use it when water change... can i just put water condition on the aqurium that salt already dissloved?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> Are you trying to say that i dont know whats best for my pets? I know how to keep my fish healthy. I don't put them at risk by putting them in a contaminated tank. I have a community tank. When a fish dies, I do a lot to ensure that the other fish are healthy. Not virtually everyone does what you do. Do you own a betta? Do you have knowledge on the upkeep of bettas?
> Again, it would be nice if you would respect opinions and decisions as I did for you. I am just trying to help singsangsung figure out what he needs to do. That's why I am here: to help others. :-D


Oh I'm quite certain that virtually no one with a community tank starts over when a fish dies. So tell us, what do you do when a fish dies in your community tank?

Haha why yes of course I own bettas and have knowledge of their upkeep. Will there be a test to follow?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

SingSangSung said:


> i heard that Filter in such small tank is not good.


So is the tank half a gallon or two and a half gallons?



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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

jaysee said:


> So is the tank half a gallon or two and a half gallons?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


2.5 gallon tank


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

You can filter a 2.5 gallon. I use an azoo palm filter on mine - costs $9 and has an adjustable flow.


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## Saber (Jul 13, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Oh I'm quite certain that virtually no one with a community tank starts over when a fish dies. So tell us, what do you do when a fish dies in your community tank?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


I had to start my 29gallon community completely over five years ago after something wiped out everything in the tank except one of my giant danios. It is not unheard of, and I hardly see it as excessive or unnecessary in a situation such as that. I would rather go through the extra work and having to cycle the tank all over again than risking killing an entire batch of new fish.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

Ummm so bleach is using chemical right? then i need to buy them but i already set the tank up after hot water cleaning..... and i know i can cycle 2.5 gallon but it is hard to do so. also i dont wantmy second betta to stuck on my filter like first one did. -_-


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Saber said:


> I had to start my 29gallon community completely over five years ago after something wiped out everything in the tank except one of my giant danios. It is not unheard of, and I hardly see it as excessive or unnecessary in a situation such as that. I would rather go through the extra work and having to cycle the tank all over again than risking killing an entire batch of new fish.


Thank you, Saber. YOU know what's best for your fish. 
Jaysee, why would I test you on something you should already know?


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Oh I'm quite certain that virtually no one with a community tank starts over when a fish dies. So tell us, what do you do when a fish dies in your community tank?
> 
> Haha why yes of course I own bettas and have knowledge of their upkeep. Will there be a test to follow?
> 
> ...


When a fish dies, I clean the whole tank, give every fish check ups, and do 25% water changes once a week for the next month. I care about my fish's health. How are you certain? Do you ask people who have community tanks? 

I don't see how haha is necessary. Would you like a test?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Saber said:


> I had to start my 29gallon community completely over five years ago after something wiped out everything in the tank except one of my giant danios. It is not unheard of, and I hardly see it as excessive or unnecessary in a situation such as that. I would rather go through the extra work and having to cycle the tank all over again than risking killing an entire batch of new fish.


No, it's not excessive or unnecessary in a situation like that. However, THAT is not what we are talking about. The point is what happens when A fish dies. In guessing you've had a fish die in that tank in the last 5 years - did you break the tank down and start all over??


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

SingSangSung said:


> also i dont wantmy second betta to stuck on my filter like first one did. -_-


In your original post you say you found the fish dead on the bottom, and in post #17 you say that you have no filter on the tank.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> Jaysee, why would I test you on something you should already know?


Oh I just thought that was the next phase of your inquisition. And no, I most certainly do not need to be tested by you.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

jaysee said:


> In your original post you say you found the fish dead on the bottom, and in post #17 you say that you have no filter on the tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


When i had filter.. he got stuck and he didnt die cuz i imediantly turned off the filter. if i didnt saw him on the filter then he might died next morning.


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## Stone (Jan 6, 2013)

I have a community tank with about 40 fish + or minus 5, it would take me too long to sit here and count them, If one fish does die, first off I try to determine how they died, if it looks like a sickness I will treat the tank for that sickness if it looks like myco, well I would get a good uv sterilizer and use it and keep water conditions tip top which really is not hard for me, all of my tanks are heavily planted and I do a 10-20% water change every 2 weeks or so more out of habit vs water quality, it is usually to lighten up the tannis in the water because when I test I get 0-0-0 I would not break down my huge tank and start trying to sterilize it because one fish died, and if you are trying to sterilize your tank for myco you better make sure you do it right, myco is resistant to most methods so standard practices do not work, you end up killing all the good bacteria and leaving the bad, which the good bacteria usually out competes for resources, leaving the bad to get a foothold in your tank, so use extra strong bleech solutions let it soak for a few days not hours or minutes go the extra mile


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Whoa! This thread has gone so far off course. Taking it back to the OP. I bleach when a fish dies because I don't always know what killed them. If it was something contagious the bleach should kill it (although I believe Myco can survive a bleaching.. correct me if I'm wrong). If it's porous I throw it, because I have heard there are some bacteria that can hide in porous material and may not be killed by the bleach. I prefer to be safe, rather than sorry. It's your choice in how you proceed from this point, and I wish you luck.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

SingSangSung said:


> When i had filter.. he got stuck and he didnt die cuz i imediantly turned off the filter. if i didnt saw him on the filter then he might died next morning.


You can always put a piece of sponge over the strainer. The fish will be better off with a filter.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

NeptunesMom said:


> Whoa! This thread has gone so far off course. Taking it back to the OP. I bleach when a fish dies because I don't always know what killed them. If it was something contagious the bleach should kill it (although I believe Myco can survive a bleaching.. correct me if I'm wrong). If it's porous I throw it, because I have heard there are some bacteria that can hide in porous material and may not be killed by the bleach. I prefer to be safe, rather than sorry. It's your choice in how you proceed from this point, and I wish you luck.


I agree. This thread has gone off course. Sorry, singsangsung. But I came here to help you. I have never used bleach as I don't want any residue in my tank. 
Good Luck :-D


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Oh I just thought that was the next phase of your inquisition. And no, I most certainly do not need to be tested by you.


Then don't suggest or ask for one.  I have no inquisition going on. I was merely aimplying, "Why are you giving information about a community tank, when this is a thread about a sickness that killed a betta?" 
Go ahead, tell us what you would do if a betta died? Would you clean the tank? Or leave it and possibly get the next fish sick?

Singsangsung, always clean the tank after a fish dies so the disease does not follow to the next fish.
I hope you enjoy your next betta! :-D


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

SingSangSung said:


> When i had filter.. he got stuck and he didnt die cuz i imediantly turned off the filter. if i didnt saw him on the filter then he might died next morning.


 Did he get stuck in the intake tube? Or did he jump into the filter box? A lid and a tube cover can fix that :-D


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

SingSangSung: If my Betta in a 2.5 gallon, non-community tank died from an unknown cause, I would err on the side of caution and sterlize as others have suggested.

How one deals with death in a single fish tank and in a community tank are two different things and, IMO, can't really be compared.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> SingSangSung: If my Betta in a 2.5 gallon, non-community tank died from an unknown cause, I would err on the side of caution and sterlize as others have suggested.
> 
> How one deals with death in a single fish tank and in a community tank are two different things and, IMO, can't really be compared.


Thank you. 
Nice to see you on the forum, Russell


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks and right back at ya!


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

Let me ask important question: i added aqurium salt into my freshly cleaned tank because carten said use it when starting new tank ir water change. do i need to add water conditional in?


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## hopeful fish (May 29, 2013)

Yes. Salt can be useful when treating illness, but only then. Prolonged use of salt can kill a freshwater fish. You should stop adding salt, and in the future, only add salt when necessary. 

You always need to add conditioner in any water from the tap. The chlorine in the water kills fish, so a good conditioner like prime is necessary. If you never used conditioner, this may be the reason your last fish died.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

hopeful fish said:


> Yes. Salt can be useful when treating illness, but only then. Prolonged use of salt can kill a freshwater fish. You should stop adding salt, and in the future, only add salt when necessary.
> 
> You always need to add conditioner in any water from the tap. The chlorine in the water kills fish, so a good conditioner like prime is necessary. If you never used conditioner, this may be the reason your last fish died.


I have two bottles of conditionals and I always used it but since my fish is dead I used salt... Okay then its fine to add conditional right? even though I already added salts? or do I need to get fresh tap water? T_T


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## Sylverlilly (Jun 24, 2013)

Use water conditioner. Don't use the salt. Only if your fishy is sick. Otherwise no salt. Conditioner. Good luck on your next baby


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

Sylverlilly said:


> Use water conditioner. Don't use the salt. Only if your fishy is sick. Otherwise no salt. Conditioner. Good luck on your next baby


thank you!! I am planning to get new betta tomr at petsmart but they are all in bad conditions T_T


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

nvm found two aquarium store that is near me xD


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> How one deals with death in a single fish tank and in a community tank are two different things and, IMO, can't really be compared.


They are only two different things if you want to make them that way. There is absolutely no basis for differentiating between the two. The principles involved are no different, and thus can easily be compared. Whether one wants to see that or not is another matter entirely. 



Sent from Petguide.com App


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

PetMania said:


> Then don't suggest or ask for one.  I have no inquisition going on. I was merely aimplying, "Why are you giving information about a community tank, when this is a thread about a sickness that killed a betta?"
> Go ahead, tell us what you would do if a betta died? Would you clean the tank? Or leave it and possibly get the next fish sick?


Okay so since I have bettas, I'm allowed to comment. Thank you, that's very gracious. Your implication of asking if I even knew how to keep bettas was that I was not qualified to be offering advice on the matter...as if you are somehow qualified to make such a call. 

This debate going on here has NOTHING to do with bettas vs community tanks. It is about the communicability of diseases in an aquarium. You speak about "disease" like it's the boogieman. It's clear that you don't understand pathology. otherwise you would not refer to "disease" as if it were some mystical force. The vast majority of the time that a fish dies, the rest of the fish are not at risk of catching anything. That's what us fish keepers know based on experience. Betta keepers seem to have a hard time with that, presumably because with only one fish in a tank they do not have the experience to know otherwise.

This is a prime example of why many of the more experienced fish keepers on TFK avoid the betta side like the plague. They think I'm crazy wasting my time here. But alas, I have hope and do not believe it's a lost cause.


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## hopeful fish (May 29, 2013)

Guys, how about we stop debating and try to help the OP. OP is confused about what to do now that their betta died, and how conditioners and salts work. lets focus on that. 

SingSangSung, you can or cannot bleach/sterilize the aquarium, depending on your personal beliefs on the matter after hearing this slightly heated debate. 

Salt is for treating sicknesses. Using conditioner is always necessary, and will not affect the effectiveness of the salt. Likewise, salt will not act as a conditioner and will not affect the conditioner. I would not use salt unless you know that your fish is sick, and then, only use it with certain illnesses.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

hopeful fish said:


> Guys, how about we stop debating and try to help the OP. OP is confused about what to do now that their betta died, and how conditioners and salts work. lets focus on that.
> 
> SingSangSung, you can or cannot bleach/sterilize the aquarium, depending on your personal beliefs on the matter after hearing this slightly heated debate.
> 
> Salt is for treating sicknesses. Using conditioner is always necessary, and will not affect the effectiveness of the salt. Likewise, salt will not act as a conditioner and will not affect the conditioner. I would not use salt unless you know that your fish is sick, and then, only use it with certain illnesses.


+1 to Hopeful Fish! 

If people want to have a debate, maybe we can start another thread. But, I think the debate should end on this one, because the OP's questions and concerns are getting lost in here.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 Hopeful Fish. Always use conditioner. Use salt only when appropriate for certain illnesses.

Sterilizing a tank is up to you. Being the cautious type, in a single-fish, small aquarium, I would. But that's me. 

Good luck with your new Betta. Let us see photos and if you have questions, always feel free to ask.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

hopeful fish said:


> Guys, how about we stop debating and try to help the OP. OP is confused about what to do now that their betta died, and how conditioners and salts work. lets focus on that.
> 
> SingSangSung, you can or cannot bleach/sterilize the aquarium, depending on your personal beliefs on the matter after hearing this slightly heated debate.
> 
> Salt is for treating sicknesses. Using conditioner is always necessary, and will not affect the effectiveness of the salt. Likewise, salt will not act as a conditioner and will not affect the conditioner. I would not use salt unless you know that your fish is sick, and then, only use it with certain illnesses.


Thank you for answering my question! finally someone answered T_T Okay i got it. right now im restarting my cycle. today i tested my new set up aqurium water and amnonia was high. so i have to keep cycling until next week to bring new betta


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Do you have any plants in your aquarium? If not, getting some will help. Cabomba is one of my favorites.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Good Luck. I apologize for the previous debate. If I can make it up to you, just ask. :-D


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## sassyfriend (Jun 27, 2013)

I am so sorry you lost your first betta that always hurts. I was getting confused as well so don't worry bout that.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

If another member comes along and tries to turn this back into a debate just pm or report that to one of the moderators. I am very happy to see the thread get back on topic and thanks SingSangSung for your understanding and good luck with getting the cycle started and in getting your new Betta and be sure if you have anymore questions to ask and remember the moderators are here to help if you have a problem with another member in any thread you have started. Thanks everyone for your help :-D


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Do you have any plants in your aquarium? If not, getting some will help. Cabomba is one of my favorites.


I have three slik plants


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone xD finally back to the topic!! all the local aqurium shops betta looks dead or atlest not in good condition. is there any other places where i can get healthy betta in CA torrance?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Live plants are good things to have in you aquarium. This is a quote from another site: 

"Live plants extract such pollutants as organic waste, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate before they can accumulate and negatively affect water quality. This natural filtration helps restore balance to the aquarium environment by processing excess nutrients. The result is a cleaner, clearer, and healthier aquarium."

Depending on how much you can spend, you could look at the classified section on this forum.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Hmmm. Have you tried all of the pet stores? If you don't see a betta that you want in those places, you could always adopt or buy one from this forum from someone in LA.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Perseusmom said:


> If another member comes along and tries to turn this back into a debate just pm or report that to one of the moderators. I am very happy to see the thread get back on topic and thanks SingSangSung for your understanding and good luck with getting the cycle started and in getting your new Betta and be sure if you have anymore questions to ask and remember the moderators are here to help if you have a problem with another member in any thread you have started. Thanks everyone for your help :-D


Its nice to see the thread is back on track as well.

SSS - it's going to take longer than a week to cycle your tank, especially if you are really starting over. Study up on the nitrogen cycle - it's the foundation of fish keeping.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Its nice to see the thread is back on track as well.
> 
> SSS - it's going to take longer than a week to cycle your tank, especially if you are really starting over. Study up on the nitrogen cycle - it's the foundation of fish keeping.


I restarted on thursday and today(sat) i just did 50% water change. i know it will take long.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

PetMania said:


> Hmmm. Have you tried all of the pet stores? If you don't see a betta that you want in those places, you could always adopt or buy one from this forum from someone in LA.


Not yet one more store left to try out  Ooo thats cool xD


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Live plants are good things to have in you aquarium. This is a quote from another site:
> 
> "Live plants extract such pollutants as organic waste, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate before they can accumulate and negatively affect water quality. This natural filtration helps restore balance to the aquarium environment by processing excess nutrients. The result is a cleaner, clearer, and healthier aquarium."
> 
> Depending on how much you can spend, you could look at the classified section on this forum.


My small tank is already full lol and i dont like agle forming in the tank :/


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## hopeful fish (May 29, 2013)

If you are doing a fishless cycle, you do not need to do any water changes. If the fish isn't in there, they can't die, so you can ave your ammonia be at 4.0 PPM and not worry. PWC's will slow the cycle down.

Also, if you are using ammonia from the bottle to cycle, make sure that it has nothing else in it. A good way to test is to shake the bottle. If there are bubbles left for more than a few seconds, than it is not pure ammonia. If the bubbles go away within a second or two, it is generally OK to use.


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

hopeful fish said:


> If you are doing a fishless cycle, you do not need to do any water changes. If the fish isn't in there, they can't die, so you can ave your ammonia be at 4.0 PPM and not worry. PWC's will slow the cycle down.
> 
> Also, if you are using ammonia from the bottle to cycle, make sure that it has nothing else in it. A good way to test is to shake the bottle. If there are bubbles left for more than a few seconds, than it is not pure ammonia. If the bubbles go away within a second or two, it is generally OK to use.


Yes there is no fish in. and i use tap water with water conditional not bottled water. so i dont need to do any water change? just leave water lone? but aqurium store lady told me to do 50% water change since water's amonia is way high for betta.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

I had a betta get very sick a few weeke ago, and i switched places with him and a healthy betta. the fish that lives in the tank the other fish got sick in is doing just fine. 

But if my tank wasn't planted, had minimal decor and substrate, i might clean it a bit more thoroughly. but only if it were small, under 5 gallons.

i agree though, partial water changes will slow your cycle down if there aren't any fish in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SingSangSung (Jul 14, 2013)

djembekah said:


> I had a betta get very sick a few weeke ago, and i switched places with him and a healthy betta. the fish that lives in the tank the other fish got sick in is doing just fine.
> 
> But if my tank wasn't planted, had minimal decor and substrate, i might clean it a bit more thoroughly. but only if it were small, under 5 gallons.
> 
> ...


Okay i will not do any water changes in fishless tank.


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