# Curved spine



## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

I think she may have tb...shes been hanging at the top a lot and she is having a hard time balancing herself. It also seems she is losing her scales and there is discoloration on the head...I think she also has pop eye. Still eating like a pig and swimming active though but I think it may be a matter of time it will only get worse


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well, for me personally, it doesn't actually look like anything is wrong with her. Sometimes they just rest in that position, I have a baby that has a mild Swim Bladder problem that does that, she just floats up and takes on a slight 'S' curve to her.

She might be stressed, she will lose color when she's stressed so that could be the "discoloration" you're talking about. Is she in a sorority at all? If so that could be why she's missing some scales.

And from this view, I see no signs of Pop-eye which is great!

Can you get some pics of her side so we can see the scales you're talking about?


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

Shes alone in the tank and I could just be over worrying but yeah she's stressed out maybe because of the new environment of plants. When she swims there's no S shape but when she stops there's a S shape. So it's normal? She is also confusing me with her behavior of constantly floating at the top sometimes shes up there all day and sometimes she swims normally around. Here's pictures


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hmm I don't see any missing scales, just stress stripes.

She was moved there recently? If so, she's most likely just stressed out. If you could keep the lights off for a while she'll calm down.


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

ah okay. I think the problem is most likely swim bladder disorder but I only feed her once each day with few drops of omega one flakes. I also crush them into tiny bits for her highness. How can that be over feeding, I might have to get epsom salt if this continues on


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Does she float at the top and tip over uncontrolled? Or does she just sit at the top for a little while and then go off swimming fine?


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

she is up there for long hours and sometimes turn sideways a little bit but most of the time she's so high up there that her top fin can literally pop out of the water. She corrects her posture once she turns sideways also.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Does she have problems when she's just swimming around?


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes she does she tries so hard to stay swimming at the bottom that her head ends up being toward the ground and her tail is all the way up. She is basically vertical


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, the S-shape could be caused by swim bladder disorder, as lilnaugrim said. This is especially likely, if she's also having buoyancy issues. 

It can also be caused by constipation. Have you seen her poop recently? (I have a HM with a tendency towards constipation. If he starts to curve into a S-shape, I add some Epsom salt. He then poops, and the S-shape goes away.)

If this were my fish, I would add Epsom salt at a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon. (Make sure the salt is predissolved before adding to the tank.)


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

No I have not seen her poop in fact I rarely get to see this the last time was when I last put up a thread suspecting she had SBD and she pooped a big one that was the size of her eye. I will buy some epsom salt and try that, it won't effect the plants will it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol, sorry I just had to laugh a little at your wording.

I find it weird that in the pictures though, she looks very small and not bloated at all, although I guess she could have constipation and not be bloated? I always figured they went hand-in-hand with each other.

I'll let LBF take over from here


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Lol, sorry I just had to laugh a little at your wording.
> 
> I find it weird that in the pictures though, she looks very small and not bloated at all, although I guess she could have constipation and not be bloated? I always figured they went hand-in-hand with each other.
> 
> I'll let LBF take over from here


lol its true though and freaked me out when I first saw it.

Thanks for the help on ruling out the possible causes!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Epsom salt at a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon won't hurt plants. (In fact, it's often used as a fertilizer!)

Once you have the Epsom salt, let us know the tank size, and we can walk you through the procedure to add it. Also, you can cover the top of the tank with some plastic vegetable wrap. It'll increase the humidity, and make it easier for him to breathe.

lilnaugrim - I watched my constipated HM curve into a S-shape, and decided that maybe it's like when people get intestinal gas. It causes cramping in people, so maybe that's what's happening with them? Who knows! LOL And they're so small that a tiny amount of gas could cause their buoyancy to become off, making them go sideways. But again, who knows.... I do find that if my HM has any issues, I add a small amount of Epsom salt. Awhile later, he poops. (And yes, it sometimes is the size of his eye!) Then, the S-shape goes away, the buoyancy issues go away, and he's back to his normal happy self. *shrug* It seems to work for us. LOL


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Np! 

EDIT: LBF that's really interesting! lol, poor little guy's suffering from gas XD that's the worst! haha I wonder if that's what my baby has, she's still taking on the slight S curve and floating at the top although she's been swimming around more in the past week and a half. And all my DT's are very prone to constipation, I should give the epsom a try when I see they haven't pooped in a while.


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Epsom salt at a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon won't hurt plants. (In fact, it's often used as a fertilizer!)
> 
> Once you have the Epsom salt, let us know the tank size, and we can walk you through the procedure to add it. Also, you can cover the top of the tank with some plastic vegetable wrap. It'll increase the humidity, and make it easier for him to breathe.


I will most likely get the epsom salt tomorrow and my size tank is 5 gallons. Also when my fish is cured from SBD do I have to do frequent water changes to get the epsom salt out of the tank or just leave it in there


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I see you saw my Epsom salt post on the other thread. 

After the treatment is over, don't worry about removing the Epsom salt all at once. As you do your regular water changes, it'll be removed from the tank.

The general recommendation is to do at least one 50% water change per week on a filtered 5 gal tank. (Per OFL's recommendation thread.) 

I would try to do more frequent water changes though while the treatment is going on. This will remove any toxins that the fish may be shedding, or bacteria in the water.

Once the treatment is over, you can do a 50% change. This will take the concentration down to 0.5 tsp/gal immediately. Then, you can do another 50% change several days later, which will drop it to 0.25 tsp/gal. Plus, your plants will be using some of it, as well.


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

Ah thank you I will update on how my fish is doing after the treatment. I'm so relieved its not TB lol


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## Ickbeth (May 30, 2013)

you can try and feed him a little cut up piece of skinned pea if hes not interested try soaking it in garlic:-D


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

My fish appears better  
She is exploring the bottom tank like a normal fish and I do see her spine curve a little but not as much as before.

I did a 50% water change and I am thinking of soaking her food in epsom salt since it seems she is prone to not pooping often. 
Should I feed her like that on a daily basis or just until she fully doesn't have a curved spine?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Yay! 

I wouldn't worry about soaking her food. The Epsom salt will relieve constipation and bloating, just by being in the water.

I would do the 50% water changes using Epsom salt treated water until the S-curve is gone and she's back to normal. 

Simply predissolve 1 teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon of conditioned water, and use this for the water changes. This will maintain a dosage of 1 tsp/gal for the duration of her treatment.

You can leave her in this dosage for 10-14 days. Once the S-shape is resolved and she's no longer constipated, I would start to do the water changes using plain (non-Epsom salt treated) conditioned water. This will start to remove it.

Generally, I keep my fish in plain, conditioned water. I have one guy who is prone to constipation (and ends up with the S-curve when he does). When he gets constipated, I simply add a therapeutic dosage of about 1/8 teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon to his water. This generally takes care of the constipation issue. When I go the next water change, I use plain, conditioned water. This removes the Epsom salt.

Some people prefer to treat constipation with frozen daphnia. This is a great way to do it, but it also makes a mess in the tank. If you want to try that though, I'd suggest feeding it right before you do a water change. This will remove the uneaten food, so it doesn't foul the water.

Also, if you can get ahold of mosquito larvae, this is a GREAT food for them! During the summer, if I can find them, I'll rinse them in a little conditioned water, then use a turkey baster to drop them into the tank. Want to see your Betta become a world-class hunter? They track those things down amazingly fast.


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## Tabby216 (Feb 20, 2013)

After feeding her she got constipation again I think the flakes is the problem. I'm going to maybe buy NLS since it contains more fibers and Omega one super flakes (currently using) only has 2% fiber and 42% protein!!! 

And I just put in 0.5 teaspoon/ gallon of epsom salt since I did a 50 % water change.
When I get a chance at the market I will buy veggies for her


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