# Can I have an ADF in here?



## finsNhooves (Nov 11, 2013)

Can I have one ADF in my tank with my female betta? It is a medium petco pet keeper and it stays at about 74 degrees. I've heard they are escape artists so would the hole on the lid I made or the heater cord be a problem? Thanks


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is it filtered? How many water changes?

ADF are sensitive to bad water parameters. They need a clean tank above all things so water changes are extremely important. The temperature should be fine as long as there are no great fluctuations.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Hmm if those are the size I am thinking of it is about a 3 gallon. Sadly, that just barely isn't big enough for an ADF and a betta to do well together. The large ones should work though, since the mediums are just barely too small. 

If it is planted and filtered you MIGHT get away with the ADF and betta in the medium though. 

If you want something else with your betta in that size of a tank, I would recommend a nerite snail, ghost shrimp, red cherry shrimp, or an amano shrimp. 

I also want to say that 74 is a little bit chilly for a Betta. I'd nudge it up two degrees if you can. 

How big of a hole did you make for the heater cord? The best way I have found is to make a slit, not a hole, that is the width of the cord itself and on the side of the lid so that the plug doesn't have to fit through. If your hole is in the middle though, and the entire plug will fit through, then yes, an ADF or a betta could escape through it, and you will want to make a cover to put over it. (A donought shaped piece of foam that is cut from the hole to one side so that it will open works well.)


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## finsNhooves (Nov 11, 2013)

Ok thanks. I won't get one. My tank isn't filtered but I do 50% water changes twice a week and a 25% change in between. I just love the little frogs and would love to have one but I want to give one the best life I can. 

74 degrees is without the heater it is actually normally 77 but it has been getting chilly in my room lately and outside so I will be putting the heater back in soon. 

The hole I made is about 1"x1" it had to be that big to fit the plug but i wish I had heard your idea before I did that! That is a better way of doing that


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Hate to disagree, but three gallons is plenty for an ADF and a Betta. According to all frog forums on which I lurk and the man from whom I buy mine it's 1-2 gallons per ADF. I do agree the tank needs a heater, though. While 74 is fine for an ADF; it's way too cool for a Betta.


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## finsNhooves (Nov 11, 2013)

I have heaters for all my tanks. They are made for 3-5 gallon tanks but aren't that powerful so they bump the temp up about 4 degrees. Is that enough?

Hmmm... Maybe I can get one then. I also have another tank which is a 4 gallon for my male and it is filtered. But the filter is terrible and the tank is more square so not much floor space and swimming space is mostly up. Which one would be better for an ADF?

And can I have just one? Because I think 2 would be a lot for my tank


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

ADF do need special consideration if living with a Betta or other fish.

As long as you have a place for them to hide (they are very, very shy) and can target feed them (they are nearly blind) they can live with Betta. The only problem you might have is making sure your Betta doesn't eat the ADF's bloodworms and get fat or bloated. ADF do not eat flakes; they require frozen bloodworms as flakes and freeze-dried can constipate them.

When mine were in a community setting I used tongs to feed bloodworms. I'd tap them on the nose and they eventually learned that tongs = food. 

They are very social so two is better but you could get one and see how it goes. Make sure you are getting ADF and not African Clawed Frogs. Google so you can see the difference. If the frog is an albino, it's a clawed frog. They get bigger and are more aggressive; unfortunately, they are often sold as ADF which gives the peaceful, shy little ADF a bad rap.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh my god I hate feeding my tank. I always have to cup my betta, then mix frog pellets with brine shrimp or bloodworms and leave it there for an hour or more before the stupid frogs come to eat. I actually hate having them in my 20g. They're cute and they love to have company. I would always opt for at least 2 ADF because though they are shy mine love to frolic together. 

Bt like Russell stated, the frogs do need very clean water because they absorb pollutants through their skin quite easily. I have lost 3 to mysterious causes but they all had fluff by the end- so I think its environmental.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Russell, 

I stand by my answer. Yes, I opened up with a "no" but I also mentioned that it was an edge case and that you might be able to manage it with a filtered planted tank. 

An expert aquarium keeper could probably pull it off just fine. But having two animals that each require 1-2 gallons in a single 3 gallon tank is not something I will ever recommend without significant qualifiers. Especially to someone who lists only a single year of experience. 

I would be willing to bet that if finsNhooves attempts it, the result will be a dead frog. I would be willing to bet that if anyone with the "Reference Team" flair tried it, the result would be a live betta and a live ADF. So my answer might be technically inaccurate, as it is possible, but is still practically correct in that if it were attempted in the current situation it would likely end badly. I would much rather my advice result in technically inaccurate but practically accurate information than vice versa. 

In a shortened form my answer remains:

Overall: No
Technically: Probably possible but hard

I think that is both accurate and reflected in the post that I made. 

I have edited this several times before posting to make it not come off as offended, confrontational or disrespectful and feel that I have failed. I will thus take the cheating way out and just say I neither took, nor intend offense in this disagreement. I greatly respect your experience, and if you were to come back and tell me that you had experience with ADFs and Bettas doing well enough in a 3 gallon tank that it could be recommended to beginners I would completely suggest anyone reading to follow what you said, not what I say.


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## finsNhooves (Nov 11, 2013)

Thank you guys so much. I have decided to not take the chance of gettig one and to instead just enjoy my 3 lovely little bettas


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

bluenails, I know you didn't mean disrespect in your post but Linda did note that there would be difficulty in feeding the frogs and that the tank needs to be very clean to keep the frogs healthy.

I don't believe it is fair to discriminate to someone just because they have a year or less of experience. My philosophy is to ask what they know and help build off of that to help them keep what they intend to keep--in this case would have been a single frog and a betta in a 3 gallon, which I know is also possible, it won't be THAT much work if the tank is at least filter with a sponge filter or done frequent water changes.

Also, I do want to note that us on the "Reference Team" do make plenty of mistakes. Just because we're on the team doesn't mean that we haven't had our fair share of fish die, in fact, I just had a huge influx of fish die and that can happen to anyone regardless of 'years' of experience. But we learn from it, yes, it stinks that fish die from mistakes but it happens and the best we can do is learn from it if we haven't already.

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@fisNhooves, frogs really aren't THAT delicate, yes you would need to keep the water nice and clean but that should be done with any fish, Bettas included  The only real issue you may run into is keeping your Betta away from the frog's food lol, that's my issue at least. But there are things you can do to help feed your frogs, they are smart little creatures and can learn where and what time you feed them! Lots of people use shells or a small terracotta pot base and feed the frozen bloodworms or frog pellets on those. Some are even lucky that their betta ignores frog pellets! Mine--not so much haha!

But in the end, it's up for you to decide and do more research if you really want them because i believe you could absolutely do it if your Betta isn't too aggressive of course!


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## BerryBlue256 (Apr 25, 2014)

+1 +1 +1 to lilnaugrim

I definitely think you could pull it off. ADF are awesome little amphibians to watch too!


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

My pair are cute to watch but my god they don't seem very bright. I have a shell in there for feeding and the only thing it's good for it alerting my amano shrimp and tetras to scraps and then, of course, my betta when I release him. The big bright shell. The frogs can smell food from across the tank but they always forget how to get to it. I never move it, it's been there for months. 

I agree with lilaug, they're delicate but I had a wave of tetra deaths over a couple weeks and in that time my tank was probably pretty contaminated since I couldn't dose it (plants, inverts, frogs). They were fine- I by no means suggest being so careless as I was in dealing with a wrath of disease but I was busy in school and I do blame myself for the loss. I am merely stating that the frogs can be pretty hardy despite.


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