# Should I euthanize?



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

I have 2 beautiful betta boys (in separate tanks of course): Draco and Luna.


I've had Draco for almost two years, and I don't know how old he was before I got him from Petco. About a month ago, Draco had a touch of dropsy or something that made his scales protrude only a bit and a smidge of fin rot (I feel so awful about that... I guess the water was dirtier than I thought... it appeared clear and clean to my eyes). I treated him with lifemed and he appeared to improve greatly: his scales went back to normal, and his fin is much better. 

However, then he developed swim bladder and it's getting much worse. His colors have changed, he has a protruding belly, and he spends all of his time lying on his side at the top of his tank unless provoked. I fasted him for three days as recommended and for about a day I thought there was an improvement, but now the symptoms are back with him still being fasted. 

I'm heartbroken and feel like such a wretched owner, I don't know what to do. Is he in pain? It's so hard to tell... and if he is in pain then I don't want him to suffer: for euthanizing (I would ask my father or my boyfriend to do it... I couldn't bare it) I read in one place that freezing in the fridge is preferable and like going to sleep, but then I read somewhere else that would be a horrible way to die. 


What should I do? Please help! 


Housing 
What size is your tank? 2 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 76 degrees 
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None.


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

If you decide to euthanize, I've heard that clove oil is good because it puts them to sleep first.

In addition to fasting, have you tried an epsom salt bath? As is the case with humans, it helps to relieve swelling and inflammation, and I have found it helpful with SB problems before.

If you can, consult OldFishLady or DramaQueen to see what they would recommend and what dosages to use.


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you so so so much for your quick reply KF! I had read of epsom baths before but it made me nervous but I think I'll take your advice and try that first. What do I have to lose at this point, right? If that doesn't work I'll take your advice again and write OldFishLady or DramaQueen to get their opinions. Thanks again!


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

It's okay. I'm sure everyone ends up in this boat at least once, and it's natural to be a little anxious the first time it happens. One way or another the right answer will come to you.


----------



## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Just FYI, just because the water is clear doesnt mean its safe.  You only know if it's safe by using a water testing kit or doing super often water changes, depending on tank size.


----------



## theyxdrewxblood (Mar 3, 2011)

First of all, if you've kept them alive for two years, you are NOT a terrible owner!
Second, the freezer method is painless. The fish's body temperature drops as the water temperature drops. As it gets colder, the fish goes into hibernation. The water freezes, and the fish dies in its sleep. I have had to euthanize one of mine before and it hurts. But if you feel it is better for him, you can.


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you so much to all three of you (Theydrew, you made me a little teary-eyed with your first line.... you're too sweet)! This forum is AMAZING, and I'll be sure to use it for future betta references!

As for Draco... he has had his epsom salt bath twice today, and he HATED it but does look a little better. He's not lying on his side as much as he was earlier, and he seems to be trying to swim a little more. It might be my imagination, but I think his color is slowly starting to improve somewhat also. I think I'll try the baths for a few more days unless something occurs. My boy is a fighter and a little toughie, hence his name. 

Does anyone know when I should begin feeding him again? I know that they can live awhile without food and he's on day three of his fast... I'm just wondering if I should wait for a specific sign that he feels good enough to eat, or if I should def. start feeding him on a certain day #. 

Again, I'm more attached to my pets then perhaps I should be... so your responses and support mean so much to me (and I'm sure Draco). Thank you all!! <3


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

theyxdrewxblood said:


> First of all, if you've kept them alive for two years, you are NOT a terrible owner!
> Second, the freezer method is painless. The fish's body temperature drops as the water temperature drops. As it gets colder, the fish goes into hibernation. The water freezes, and the fish dies in its sleep. I have had to euthanize one of mine before and it hurts. But if you feel it is better for him, you can.


Youre so incorrect it hurts.

They stay awake until they freeze.
Bettas do not "hibernate", and they dont "sleep" like a human would.
Their insides freeze until they die of cold while being awake.

Never do this to your fish. Use clove oil or quickly bludgeon him. There are other methods, as well.


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

Leave Draco in water with a small amount of the salt over night, with some saran wrap over the opening of your quarantine to keep the air inside moist so his labyrinth organ doesn't dehydrate when he comes up to breathe. Check on him again when you get up in the morning. If he is behaving normally and colouring up again, give him a couple more hours to be on the safe side.

As for feeding him, he can eat when he poops, but don't feed him too much.

And I agree with TDB, you're not terrible just because Draco got sick. These things happen to the best of us, and a terrible person would allow that suffering to continue without trying everything they could. You asked for help and are examining viable solutions. This does not make you terrible, it makes you a loving caretaker of those more defenseless than yourself.


----------



## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

NEVER use the freezer method. Like PewPewPew said, it is painful and they stay awake.

When animal cells start to freeze, the water inside them expands until the cells burst. Does that sound non-painful to you?


----------



## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

Euthanizing a pet is a very personal decision that only you can make. Personally, I can't stand to see any animal suffer.


----------



## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Dragonlady said:


> *Euthanizing a pet is a very personal decision that only you can make.* Personally, I can't stand to see any animal suffer.


+1


----------



## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

I've only ever euthanized one fish.. it was a head/tail light tetra that had developed NTD and would have died a very slow, painful death. The way I view it is that you have to decide if they fish will be able to live comfortably, or if they will be able to ever recover.. it was a painful decision to make, I agree. 

The clove oil method is probably the best method out there, but I hope that you won't have to make that decision.  Give the epsom alt a good try, keep him nice and warm.. clean and warm water can often do more than we think to help fish.


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

Instead of worrying PowayMermaid any further when we aren't even sure whether she'll need to euthanize or not, why don't you create a thread where you can continue this debate and leave this one for giving advice to someone who needs it?


----------



## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Her original concern was if she should euthanize her fish or not.. offering information or advice on that is just as important as offering alternative ways to treat her fish. Part of keeping fish is being aware of all options of treatment. I hope the epsom works for her and she doesn't even have to think about anything else, but in my honest opinion to know when it should be a legitimate thing to think of and how to do it with as little stress and pain to the animal is also important. She asked, and we were answering.


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

LOL KingsFish you're such a sweetheart. I had to admit that I was chewing my lip a little bit when I woke up and read all the responses, lol. At least we all have our love and concern for our bettas in common no matter what, no? 

And perhaps you might have saved my little Draco! The last post I read last night was your previous one, and I didn't respond yet because I was so tired but I DID follow your advice exactly. When I woke up and checked on him he was no longer on his side and (I think) his fins have opened up a bit more. I'm going to follow your advice further and leave him there for a couple of more hours before I move him back to his tank, and then eventually another epsom bath.

So far I'm pretty hopeful, and words can't accurately express how grateful I am to all of you... especially to you KingsFish! I wish I could hug you in person, lol.


----------



## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

Awesome news Poway. <3


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you Capricorn!  Hopefully the Clove oil/Freezing debate won't have to apply to Draco and I after all. It is something to keep in mind though, God forbid. As my parents always say: "Hope for the best, expect the worst."


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

See how he does today and continue to repeat the process for the next couple days. If he seems more lethargic in his tank, bathe him longer: the process will require some time.


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

You haven't steered me wrong yet, KF!


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you everyone, especially KF. After a couple of weeks of not looking so great on and off, my beautiful boy Draco passed away this morning. Of course I'm sad, but my boy was really considerate and had AWESOME timing, because he seemed to know that I'd be too distracted about my human friend currently missing in Northeastern Japan to cry too much over him. 

Thank you bettafish forum for giving my boy some more time (although I write this post because on reflection I do wonder if I should've perhaps euthanized him at the start... his eye at death appeared to have caved in, or something. Tumor? I have no idea). 

And regardless of whether or not you believe in God, please pray for my friend and all the other people being affected after Japan's quake/tsunami.


----------



## Capricorn (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about both things. ): I'm positive that the time he spent with you he was well-cared for and content.

Wishing all the best for all of Japan, as well! I hope your friend is okay.


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you very much on both accounts Capricorn, and I agree completely: Anyone reading this in Japan, please stay safe!


----------



## k2ofcu (Feb 5, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Youre so incorrect it hurts.
> 
> They stay awake until they freeze.
> Bettas do not "hibernate", and they dont "sleep" like a human would.
> ...


+1

FREEZING IS NOT HUMANE. PERIOD.

MS- 222 (ONLY WITH sodium bicarbonate buffer!) is an acceptable veterinary standard for fish euthanasia: 

http://www.argent-labs.com/argentwebsite/ms-222.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricaine_mesylate

From:
http://www.research.cornell.edu/care/documents/ACUPs/ACUP306.pdf_
Note: MS222 is acidic in concentrations >500 mg/L, concentrations >500 mg/L must be buffered with an equal weight of sodium bicarbonate or to a pH of 7.0-7.5._

(I'm an analytical chemist & board-certified veterinary technician, though I'm learning more and more about fish (& the nitrogen cycle! ha!) through this forum!)

A friend (veterinary technology instructor for 30+years) ordered MS222 for her fish (can be ordered via the link above by any responsible party).
I have access to it (used with sodium bicarbonate to keep it humane!!) if I ever need it (hopefully not soon if ever!)


----------



## k2ofcu (Feb 5, 2011)

PowayMermaid said:


> Thank you everyone, especially KF. After a couple of weeks of not looking so great on and off, my beautiful boy Draco passed away this morning. Of course I'm sad, but my boy was really considerate and had AWESOME timing, because he seemed to know that I'd be too distracted about my human friend currently missing in Northeastern Japan to cry too much over him.
> 
> Thank you bettafish forum for giving my boy some more time (although I write this post because on reflection I do wonder if I should've perhaps euthanized him at the start... his eye at death appeared to have caved in, or something. Tumor? I have no idea).
> 
> And regardless of whether or not you believe in God, please pray for my friend and all the other people being affected after Japan's quake/tsunami.


Am so sorry- must be so very hard on so many levels.

I had a pet go before I could get her to the DVM for euthanasia - I knew a LOT of different things, but it haunts me still that I didn't do certain things at a certain time, waited too long, etc. Be easy on yourself- as best you can. We know you did your very, very best, and Draco knows it, too. 

Prayers & good thoughts for EVERYONE -plenty enough to go around (Japanese friends, little Draco, and, of course, the very caring YOU).

{{{{PowayMermaid}}}}


----------



## PowayMermaid (Mar 2, 2011)

You made me cry again k2ofcu. Thank you so much for your advice and kind words. You're a sweetheart! 


AND THEY FOUND MY CANON!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Ann Curry and NBC!! What started out as a sad day for my Draco became one of the best days of my life. Words cannot express how happy I am that she's alive and well... now get your ass home, girl. 

But even with how happy I am, I'm still praying for Japan and all those that have yet to hear about loved ones.


----------

