# nutrafin "cycle"



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Hey there, purchased a bottle of nutrafin cycle, claims to instantly provide a safe environment in New tanks by providing beneficial bacterias + eliminates ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. Has anybody used this product? I have a 2 week old ten gallon tank cycling with my betta and a few ghost shrimp.. I had a school of neon tetras in it after a week ( had some poor advice that neons were able to survive a cycle, no they can not) now have the lone survivor still in tank, interestingly he seemed to be a type of dominant alpha tetra lol hiding in one of my bettas favorite hiding places. I've had my betta for about 7 months and have never used aquarium salts, my tank is a solid 78 degrees, I have done 1 50% water change over the span of 2 weeks. My plan is to test the water quality ( post the results) try out this "cycle" product after a 25% water change, add 2 tbl spoons of aquarium salts, wait 24 hours, test the water again ( post results) then pending my reading purchase 5 neon tetras add additional conditioner then introduce the tetras monitoring the water quality every other day for a week and then once a week. ( will this work? Will it be safe for my dear sweet crowntail friend? Am I overreacting ??


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Okay, first things first.  

Do you know how the cycle works/what it is? Good bacteria eating ammonia and nitrites? Biological filtration?

Do you have a filter? You cannot cycle a tank without a filter because the cycle requires the surface area of the cartridge or sponge inside the filter, and the oxygen produced either from the air pump in the sponge filter or the water flowing through the regular filter. 

I have not used the Nutrafin product, so I can't say if it will work or not. But, I have used the API product and the Jungle Product. The API stuff worked for me (I've heard others though say that it failed them, probably depending on how fresh the product was at the store), and the Jungle product was useless. 

It is highly rec'd over here to use either the Tetra Safe Start or the Dr. Tim's One and Only products, both have given good success to the largest numbers of people.  

Also, one 50% water change over two weeks is WAY too little water changing! This is probably why your tetras died.  Their tiny systems just couldn't handle the ammonia load that is currently in your water.  (don't feel bad...we've all been there in the "oh crap I haven't been changing my water nearly enough" place...)

If you are trying to cycle right now with fish in, you need to do water tests with the Master Test Kit (liquid kit) every day, making sure to change the water to keep the ammonia down right about 0.25. Any higher than this and your fish can be harmed, even if they don't show effects immediately, overall it is weakening them and will eventually foster disease or kill them much more quickly overall. 

If you want to try the Cycle product, I'd test your water first, if the ammonia is as high as it should be with so few water changes, the Cycle bacteria, even if they're alive, will not be able to handle the workload and will not cycle the tank. Whereas if you change the water (do partial changes until you get to this point) down to 0.25 ammonia, then put in the Cycle, if the product is going to work then it will do it for you at that ammonia level. (It's good to give the bacteria a little food to start off with, but not too much.)

Leave off the aquarium salts. It doesn't need to go into your tank at any point. AQ salt is really only needed in Quarantine tanks while treating for specific diseases/parasites. It is not needed in this type of freshwater setup, and really won't prevent disease or anything like that when adding new fish. A healthy tank, current fish with good immune systems and QUARANTINE PERIODS will do the most to safeguard your tank against disease. 

If you are getting the right readings after about a week of the Cycle product (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and <20 nitrates) then you're good to go and the tank has been cycled. (BUT, make sure to keep checking water for the next month or so to make sure that things don't blip. Sometimes these instant cycle products cause a minicycle that crashes or can cause weird jumps in things, especially when you're adding in new fish, so continued testing for a while afterwords is really important.)

As for adding the new tetras, they are going to need to be quarantined for about 2 weeks prior to going into your existing tank. This gives them time to acclimate to your water/setup/handling, etc. and to clear them of any diseases they might have that you don't want to get into your other fish. 

No, you are not overreacting, you've just got some information that needed to be amended/corrected.  Everybody does in the beginning, we've all been there!


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Nice, sounds like a plan. 25% water changes every other day er everyday, then 50% at end of week? Man I'm getting some really messed up advice from manufacturers/petstore employees


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks for the help! Will do. I'll test the water and post the results later this afternoon.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

+1 Bluefish


----------



## Betta Nut (Dec 3, 2013)

I have heard a lot of stuff on reviews for those cycle start products that it makes it difficult, and even impossible in some cases for the tank to have a natural cycle. Even months later, if they are stopped being added at water changes, the cycle crashes and has to be started over. Bluefish kinda touched on that.
I don't know how much merit to put in the many reviews I have seen stating that, but it's something to watch if you stop using it.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

The water changes are dependent upon your water readings. If it's above 0.25 ammonia, then do a change. If it's at 0.25 or below, you're good to stop changing and be safe until the next days reading.  

Once your ammonia gets to zero, then you need to start checking for nitrite readings. These need to stay at or below 0.25. Again, water changes to bring them into line as needed to get everything where you want it.  

It gets SO obnoxious doing all those readings with the liquid test kit, but it's worth it in the end to have a cycled tank and to have healthy fish.  It's only for a short time, so that helps with the drudgery.  

Those poor people at the petstore...they just don't have the background to really know what they're talking about. Some have kept fish, but most have not and they will tell you some truly bizarre things...usually totally incorrect.  They're not bad people, they're just uninformed and they don't know it.  

As for the Cycle-In-A-Bottle product, after it's been opened, it's only good for about 24 to 48 hours. After that, the preservative or whatever it is that's keeping the bacteria that you need alive is dead and will do you absolutely no good. 

IF the cycle starter works, and if the cycle stays steady (test every other day for the first month, then randomly after that to make sure things things are still going strong), then you base your water changes on the nitrATE readings so that you know when to change your water. It's different for everyone, and you'll never do a 100% change again.  

I'm going to post up the super easy guide to cycling here on this thread right after I post this one.  It may be information you already have, but just in case it might help to fill in any holes.  I was SO confused at first about this, I didn't even realize the things I didn't know.  You might be way more informed than I was, but just in case.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

What the basic cycle is: 
fish produce ammonia, ammonia is then broken down by Bacteria A into nitrite, then Bacteria B comes in and breaks down the nitrite into nitrate, when you have enough of both of these bacterial types (BB's or Beneficial Bacteria) to break down all the ammonia and nitrite into nitrate at a good clip, then you're cycled.  

What the BB's need to live: a food source (your fish, his waste, and any uneaten food in the tank), an air source (any time the water is agitated, this puts oxygen into the water, this is done through bubbles in a sponge filter and through the water falling back into the tank with a HOB filter), and a place to live, called surface area. This area is avail in your filter in the "filter media" and in the gravel in your tank. There is also a small amount living on your tank walls, plants, and decorations, but mostly in your filter and your gravel. 

This is why some people have a hard time getting a small tank to cycle, or to keep a steady cycle. Under 5g's is a small tank. Most people who can get a small tank to cycle do it with a good layer of aquarium gravel, and a sponge filter. These two things maximize your surface area for the BB's to live on, giving you a better chance of being able to cycle, and to hold a steady cycle. It's not a guarantee, but it's a better starting chance. 


Tools for cycling: 
Master Freshwater Test kit. This is not negotiable.  (trust me, I tried, lol!) The test strips are *not* accurate, and you will only waste your money. This is the voice of experience...I didn't believe it, bought the strips, only to realize that they really *are* that bad...and I'd wasted 10$ that could have gone towards a Master Kit. It's a 20-25$ investment, but it's worth it, and they last just about forever. 
There are a lot of parts to the Kit, but you really only need to worry about the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate testing solutions, the others are not really important at this stage of the game. Your water hardness and Ph are not something you can really change realistically (there are chemicals to mess with them, but they just make your tank unstable, and it's better to have a steady number that's maybe not ideal but suitable and *stable*, rather than one that's going up and down and sideways all the time because you're messing with it). Bettas are tough, they can adjust to whatever Ph and Hardness you have. Keep these parts of the kit because you might need them later, but for now, you just need the three big ones: Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.  

Prime. Prime is special stuff, because it neutralizes ammonia into a form that is not harmful to your fish, but is avail to be used by your cycle. Prime is the *ONLY* product on the market that does this. Prime is important in case your ammonia spikes and you can't do a water change right then, the Prime will buy you a day or two of continued cycling, while keeping your fish safe.  

That's it. You're ready.  

Steps to the Cycle:

Pre-Step: test your tap water for ammonia. Hopefully, your tap water reads at an ammonia level of 0. If it doesn't, that is another issue, PM me back if that's the case and we'll hit this another way.  

Step 1: set up your tank, and throw in a fishie.  Put in your gravel, your treated water, some plants, decorations, whatever you're going to put in there, and start up the filter. Over the next several days, your filter is providing two things: air into the water, and a place for the BB's to live once they get going. That's it. Your fish is producing ammonia, so the BB's now have all their needs: air, living space, and food. From this point you're going to start testing your water for ammonia. 

Step 2: some days have gone by. It depends on your tank how many, smaller tanks produce more ammonia faster just because there's less water to dilute it. Once your ammonia gets to 0.25, then you need to do a 50% water change. Your goal right now is to keep the water at 0.25 ammonia, this is enough for the BB's to start eating, but not enough to hurt your fish for a few weeks. You're going to start testing your water for nitrITES at this point as well. 

Step 3: more days have gone by. At some point, your ammonia will start going down, and your nitrITES will start going up. Have a small party, you're getting there, yay!!  After some time, again, depending on the tank, your ammonia will fall to 0, and your nitrITES will go up to a reading. Again, the nitrITES need to stay at the 0.25 level, if they go above this, do a water change to bring them back down. 

Step 4: additional days have gone by. Probably a couple or a few weeks. The average cycle takes a month...some are quicker, some are slower, but about a month is average. At this point, your nitrITES start going down, and your nitrATES start going up. This will continue for a bit until you have readings of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrITES and 5-20 nitrATES. This is when you have a big party.  You are now cycled, yayayayay!  At this point, your tank is newly cycled. It may still have some fluctuations, but the basic process is complete.  

Step 5: keep testing your water every few days to a week for a month or so, just to make sure you don't have any blips in your cycle. This will also tell you when to start doing water changes. In a cycled tank you won't ever do a 100% water change, only 25-50% changes, usually 25% once a week or every two weeks. The way you know when to change your water is based off your nitrATE readings. You're going to test this pretty often for a bit to find out how long it takes *your* tank to reach a level of nitrATES that need a water change. If nitrATES are above 25, you need to do a water change to bring them down. After you've done a few weeks of testings, you'll start to see a pattern and you know, on average, when you need to do your water changes.  

Notes about water changes post cycle: never, ever put chlorinated water into your tank. Always make sure your water has been treated before it touches your tank, gravel, or filter, otherwise the chlorine will kill your BB's. Also, never rinse your sponges or cartridge in untreated tap water for the same reason. If they are mucky, just swish them around in old tank water until the gunk is cleaned off. They don't need to be super clean, just knock the big stuff off. 

Not too hard.  Just some time, some readings, and some water changes.  

Cheats and Starters.  
There are some products made that will jump-start your cycle. You've probably seen them in the stores, and there is debate about how effective they are. Some people say they're all garbage and will actually stall out or harm your cycling process. These are usually the old-school. Other people say that some, used correctly, are great and are effective. I've had mixed results. 

These are the most recommended:
Dr. Tim's One and Only. This is a product you order online from the Dr. Tim's company or from the Drs Foster and Smith website, and they ship it directly to you, so it's very fresh and the BB's are still very alive and active. This gets really good reviews. 
Tetra Safe Start. This you can get in the store, and was the predecessor to the Dr. Tim’s product.
API Quick Start. I've used this product and been happy with it. Others have not had good results. 
Seachem Stability. I haven’t used this one, but I’ve seen a few rec’s for it, and the Seachem company typically has good products. 
Jungle Safe Start. I tried it, it was useless, save your money. 

Now, if you use these products here are some tips for success:
- Before you open the bottle and break the seal on the product, let your ammonia in your tank get to 0.25. This gives the BB's something to start eating immediately, so whatever is alive can stay that way and start reproducing immediately. 
- Only buy what you need to use *right then*. The Tetra and the QuickStart only need to be added once, and after the bottle has been open for 24 to 48 hours, the BB's are dead and it's no good anymore. It doesn't pay to buy a big bottle and save the remainder, because the BB's are dead. Just buy however much you need to treat whatever number of gallons you need right then.  
- Try to buy it fresh. Try to go to stores with high turnover, and try to get products that have been recently shipped out from the manufacturer. This will ensure healthier and a greater number of living BB's.


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

that's some great advice. Thank you, maybe ill return that nutrafin cycle, I don't mind doing the water changes and have loads of conditioner. Invested in a nice siphon and can get 5g out in minutes.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Whatever works best for you.  Cycling traditionally is not that hard, it just takes some time.  I usually use the quick start stuff when I'm setting up a new tank for people who've NEVER had fish before...and they're not going to be able to/or willing to handle the cycling. 
 It's not a guarantee, but I figure it's about the best safeguard for the fish I can provide.


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Could you recommend any tankmates for my ten g that would survive a cycle as long as I follow that guide and keep up on my testing and water changes? Right now I'm looking at maybe a few mm platies for my daughter male and two females


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm so sorry, but on that point I have no idea.  This is my first adventure in community tank stocking, and other than finding out who can live successfully with a betta and how many of each type is good for them, that's as far as I've gotten.  You'd need something pretty hardy I believe...but I could be wrong on that as well.  If it was me, I'd start a new thread and ask just that question. I know there are some people on here who are long-time community tank people, and they could give you so much more and better information than I can.  

You can also try the "mother" forum for this one, tropicalfishkeeping.com. They could help you out as well.  

I'm sorry I can't be of more help than that, but I'd hate to steer you wrong in my ignorance.


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Blue Fish said:


> I'm so sorry, but on that point I have no idea.  This is my first adventure in community tank stocking, and other than finding out who can live successfully with a betta and how many of each type is good for them, that's as far as I've gotten.  You'd need something pretty hardy I believe...but I could be wrong on that as well.  If it was me, I'd start a new thread and ask just that question. I know there are some people on here who are long-time community tank people, and they could give you so much more and better information than I can.
> 
> You can also try the "mother" forum for this one, tropicalfishkeeping.com. They could help you out as well.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't be of more help than that, but I'd hate to steer you wrong in my ignorance.


No worries, thanks for not bsing me 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RedneckPoodle (Mar 4, 2014)

I tried it (advised by petstore guy), all fish died off. Oddest thing is once the tank was cycled (months later, must have only been a very small amount of "cycle" left in the tank by this tie), readings of ammonia and nitrite were zero, I put fish in an the nitrite instantly spiked, and stayed spiked over a long period of time (despite huge water changes on a daily basis). For some reason the ammonia never spiked, so it seemed like the tank needed to re-cycle for the nitrite but the ammonia was still good. Wouldn't trust this product in the future, since it is unreliable at cycling a tank, I'd be constantly testing over months and months and months to make sure levels wouldn't randomly spike.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

carefreesparrow said:


> Could you recommend any tankmates for my ten g that would survive a cycle as long as I follow that guide and keep up on my testing and water changes? Right now I'm looking at maybe a few mm platies for my daughter male and two females


If you are planning on doing a fish in cycle, I would recommend against using the type of fish you plan to keep. Conditions in the tank can get pretty harsh for a long period of time, and the process will weaken them, if not kill them outright. Additionally, the overall conditions in the tank are inherently unstable. You will get PH fluctuations (downward) which is bad for fish, and any water you replace in the aquarium will potentially (likely) make the instability worse. Bottom line, if you use fish you want to keep, chances are they will die from the continual state of shock. Something like a common goldfish would be a better choice for this type of cycling.

Now, if your tank is empty, it is far better to do a fish out cycle at this point. It will take a little time, but once finished, the environment should be just fine to add the fish you wish to keep. This type of cycling will better replicate the bio-load the tank is likely to get when lightly to moderately stocked (method dependant) creating a more stable environment, once the cycle is complete, for the fish you wish to add. All that is needed on your part is patience. 

I personally do a fish out, plant in cycle using pure ammonia (not the stuff at the grocery). It works well for me. It is easier to maintain a set and adjust the ammonia in the water to ensure a full cycle that will replicate pretty closely the bio-load my filter is likely to encounter.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

RedneckPoodle said:


> I tried it (advised by petstore guy), all fish died off. Oddest thing is once the tank was cycled (months later, must have only been a very small amount of "cycle" left in the tank by this tie), readings of ammonia and nitrite were zero, I put fish in an the nitrite instantly spiked, and stayed spiked over a long period of time (despite huge water changes on a daily basis). For some reason the ammonia never spiked, so it seemed like the tank needed to re-cycle for the nitrite but the ammonia was still good. Wouldn't trust this product in the future, since it is unreliable at cycling a tank, I'd be constantly testing over months and months and months to make sure levels wouldn't randomly spike.


If you don't mind my asking, how did you do your initial cycle? Sounds like you had fish in. When did it / they die (how quickly)? Did you do anything else as a part of the initial cycle or just let it sit until you put in the next load of fish?

What it sounds like is the de-nitrifying bacteria never fully developed in your bio-filter. If your fish died during the cycle, it is possible that the nitrifying bacteria used up the remaining ammonia in the water; however, the amount of nitrites produced may have been insufficient to allow for the full development of your de-nitrifing bacteria (not enough nitrites in the water to produce a full colony of this bacteria). If that's the case, adding additional fish to the tank would cause a nitrite spike which, in time, would resolve itself as the de-nitrifying bacteria grew to the point where they could absorb the new bio-load. You wouldn't know this if you let the tank sit as the cycle would simply have stopped once the remaining ammonia and nitrite by products were absorbed, and would not start again until another ammonia source were introduced. The product you used wasn't to blame as it only puts bacteria in the water. If there isn't sufficient food for each type of bacteria, they will only grow to a certain amount, then stop once the food is gone.

Now I am making an assumption here as to what happened based on what I think you said above.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I realize I've harped a bit on the specifics of cycling, but I left out a couple of simple things you can add that will lessen the impact of nitrites on your fish.

Two very easy plants will help your cycle, particularly with gobbling up nitrites. The first is called Frogbit. It literally is a toss in and forget plant. It floats on the surface dropping ;long roots into the water and propagates rather quickly. It is known for its love of nitrites. If I had some of this, I would happily send you some as you likely won't find it at your LFS. It is readily available online, and you may find someone on this forum who has some they'd be willing to send you. I am getting mine from a friend on a plant forum. Don't know if I can mention it here, but the forum is www.plantedtank.net. The WTB section is where you can find some.

The other is moss. Java moss is moss frequently mentioned for its love of nitrates, but all mosses will serve this function. You can likely find moss balls at your LFS pretty cheap. Just toss them in and they'll do their thing.

Hope this helps


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

There are varying opinions on the fish-in cycle. With the advent of Prime as a water conditioner, the fish-in cycle is now pretty well accepted and used, particularly with bettas since they are better at withstanding the fluctuations and the ammonia. 

I've cycled all my tanks with fish-in (just bettas) and have not had a problem, but I do know where rpadgett is coming from because I've heard things similar to what (s)he (sorry!) is saying before. 

Just a note.  Either way works, and if you're wanting to be completely safe, then a fish-out cycle using pure ammonia is the safest bet. But, I wouldn't hesitate to do a fish-in cycle with a betta using Prime either if you are so inclined.  Just don't add in any snails or shrimp until the cycle is complete, because they are far more sensitive to the fluctuations than a betta is.  Bettas are just some tought little dudes!


----------



## RedneckPoodle (Mar 4, 2014)

rpadgett37 said:


> If you don't mind my asking, how did you do your initial cycle? Sounds like you had fish in. When did it / they die (how quickly)? Did you do anything else as a part of the initial cycle or just let it sit until you put in the next load of fish?
> 
> What it sounds like is the de-nitrifying bacteria never fully developed in your bio-filter. If your fish died during the cycle, it is possible that the nitrifying bacteria used up the remaining ammonia in the water; however, the amount of nitrites produced may have been insufficient to allow for the full development of your de-nitrifing bacteria (not enough nitrites in the water to produce a full colony of this bacteria). If that's the case, adding additional fish to the tank would cause a nitrite spike which, in time, would resolve itself as the de-nitrifying bacteria grew to the point where they could absorb the new bio-load. You wouldn't know this if you let the tank sit as the cycle would simply have stopped once the remaining ammonia and nitrite by products were absorbed, and would not start again until another ammonia source were introduced. The product you used wasn't to blame as it only puts bacteria in the water. If there isn't sufficient food for each type of bacteria, they will only grow to a certain amount, then stop once the food is gone.
> 
> Now I am making an assumption here as to what happened based on what I think you said above.



I was doing a fish-in cycle, was monitoring levels and doing water changes, went to go buy some supplies and was chatting with the fish guy, he suggested I use cycle so that the tank would cycle faster and I could avoid daily changes, fish died within a day of adding the cycle ( I had done a water change when I added it, and I know it could have been the exposure to the ammonia as well, however considering I was keeping ontop of the water changes and they appeared to be fine was a lil suspicious) Since tank wasn't fully cycled but was part way there I kept adding suspended fish food and testing levels in the empty tank (all appeared to be fine) and it seemed to continue on cycling. All I can guess is that the bacteria that Cycle put into my tank was enough to give readings to suggest that the bacteria had developed to handle the nitrite but it really wasn't enough once fish entered the tank. I know that fish are different than suspended food etc but I would be concerned about my tank actually cycling when using this product.


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

Did you do an ammonia test prior to the water change? I've been told that you need a .25 level ( or near) to add the cycle and have it work.. I'm definitially no expert but maybeif your ammonia levels were higher, the bacteria could have worked too well and created an enormous nitrite spike.That could have killed your fish. But hopefully somebody more experienced will say yay or nay to that.


----------



## RedneckPoodle (Mar 4, 2014)

Yes and it was high (was awhile ago now can't remember how high). I've just gone back to doing it the way I've done it before, keeping a close eye on things and frequent changes once fish are added. Feel pretty stupid for buying the stuff thinking it was some mirical in a bottle. And won't use it again because I find it unreliable and unpredictable from my experience. Have both tanks running and happy now so won't need to worry about the dreaded cycle process for awhile, yay!


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

RedneckPoodle said:


> I was doing a fish-in cycle, was monitoring levels and doing water changes, went to go buy some supplies and was chatting with the fish guy, he suggested I use cycle so that the tank would cycle faster and I could avoid daily changes, fish died within a day of adding the cycle ( I had done a water change when I added it, and I know it could have been the exposure to the ammonia as well, however considering I was keeping ontop of the water changes and they appeared to be fine was a lil suspicious) Since tank wasn't fully cycled but was part way there I kept adding suspended fish food and testing levels in the empty tank (all appeared to be fine) and it seemed to continue on cycling. All I can guess is that the bacteria that Cycle put into my tank was enough to give readings to suggest that the bacteria had developed to handle the nitrite but it really wasn't enough once fish entered the tank. I know that fish are different than suspended food etc but I would be concerned about my tank actually cycling when using this product.


I am not super familiar with Nutrafin Cycle, but from some reading, like other similar products, it seeds your tank with bacteria that will help in the cycling process. The bacteria in and of itself is harmless to your fish, so I don't think that would be the likely culprit. In truth, I am at a loss why your fish died after adding it. Could be just a coincidence. Could be that your initial ammonia level rose to toxic levels (which can happen during a cycle). All the same, I don't think you did anything wrong.

Completing the cycle is a good way to go. It sounds like the de-nitrifyning bacteria needs to catch up with the nitrifying bacteria. Putting fish food into your aquarium as the ammonia source will work and letting it sit will work, but it will take some time.

As far as your water changes, I feel you are doing it too often. All bacteria involved here need time to grow in sufficient numbers to convert food to ammonia, ammonia to nitrites, and finally nitrites to nitrates. Constant water changes will slow that process significantly as you'll constantly have an up and down levels of ammonia in the water. It is desirable to have a reasonably high and consistent ammonia level in the water to ensure a full development of the bacteria you need. Where water changes become more critical is when you have a fish in cycle (you don't want to kill your ammonia source).

So what does that mean? You can put in the food and let it go. If you wish, you can add a chunk of shrimp to the aquarium to speed it along a little. Check your ammonia levels and let them grow to 3 ppm as a minimum and do your water changes to keep it there. Once it begins to drop and nitrites show up, let your ammonia levels drop and do water changes to keep the ammonia at around 1 ppm. It doesn't have to be precise. Just close. There are other levels suggested, but these are what work for me unless I am using pure ammonia. And as you know, eventually, these levels will drop to zero in a 24 hour period, signaling the completed cycle.

If you want to put in a fish, a hardy fish like a common goldfish would be fine. The ammonia levels here that would signal a water change are ammonia 0.1 ppm and above, nitrates 0.3 ppm and above (as I understand it, levels above these are toxic to the fish).

Without a fish, I wouldn't be concerned with the PH during the cycle. Your water changes will keep it reasonably stable.

I sincerely hope this helps you. This will resolve itself with a little TLC.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

RedneckPoodle said:


> Yes and it was high (was awhile ago now can't remember how high). I've just gone back to doing it the way I've done it before, keeping a close eye on things and frequent changes once fish are added. Feel pretty stupid for buying the stuff thinking it was some mirical in a bottle. And won't use it again because I find it unreliable and unpredictable from my experience. Have both tanks running and happy now so won't need to worry about the dreaded cycle process for awhile, yay!


Ooops... didn't read this before my posts. Glad things have stabilized for you


----------



## carefreesparrow (Mar 24, 2014)

rpadgett37 said:


> I am not super familiar with Nutrafin Cycle, but from some reading, like other similar products, it seeds your tank with bacteria that will help in the cycling process. The bacteria in and of itself is harmless to your fish, so I don't think that would be the likely culprit. In truth, I am at a loss why your fish died after adding it. Could be just a coincidence. Could be that your initial ammonia level rose to toxic levels (which can happen during a cycle). All the same, I don't think you did anything wrong.
> 
> Completing the cycle is a good way to go. It sounds like the de-nitrifyning bacteria needs to catch up with the nitrifying bacteria. Putting fish food into your aquarium as the ammonia source will work and letting it sit will work, but it will take some time.
> 
> ...


Would you seriously allow ammonia levels reach 3ppm during a cycle with fish in? I'm not certain but if your lvls are much more then .50 when you add your cycle its going to go crazy consuming ammonia and create a lethal nitrite spikw. Is say .25ppm would be more then substantial to kick start the product and depending on how many/what fish you have will already provide enough ammonia.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

carefreesparrow said:


> Would you seriously allow ammonia levels reach 3ppm during a cycle with fish in? I'm not certain but if your lvls are much more then .50 when you add your cycle its going to go crazy consuming ammonia and create a lethal nitrite spikw. Is say .25ppm would be more then substantial to kick start the product and depending on how many/what fish you have will already provide enough ammonia.


No. Those numbers are for a fish out cycle. I wasn't very clear about that above.


----------

