# Stocking against my parent's will....



## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Hello! So, as i am sure I have babbled about enough, I am getting 2.5 gallon upgrades for my betta's. Which means I will have a spare 3 gallon. What can I do with it? I was thinking to try saltwater can get 6 Dwarf Seahorses! 

I might get another Betta, but I don't think it would be fair! I mean, my current boys get 2.5 gallons, and a new one gets 3? No.....

So, what are some suggestions? I don't want shrimp or snails or anything like that.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Do your research on seahorses, I hear they are the hardest thing to keep in salt aquariums. I don't know much about salt, but I see salt experts warn people against having them. Just as I personally wouldn't put any tropical fish in a 3g other than betta, I wouldn't put anything salt water in them either. 20g is usually the starting point.

Also, I have bettas in all sorts of tanks! Right now Nixon, Ben and Hughie has 1.5g. Twitch and Freddy have 2.5g and Spidey has 2.65g. I really don't think one Betta is going to be jealous over another Betta with 0.5g more room. Thats... kinda silly lol


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I know... I just like to keep my babies equal...

Dwarf Seahorses... They would die in a 20 gallon. I did my research. These guys need a very slow filter current and very little room. Like with a ten gallon you could easily house a couple dozen.


I called PetCo about them and they were like 

"WHAT!? SEAHORSES NEED AT LEAST 55 GALLONS YOU ARE CRAZY WTF IS A DWARF SEAHORSE ANYWAYS!?"

Me: "O.e Okay?"


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Bettas wont get offended if they have different sized tanks  they don't think like humans do. They have no idea about gallons and are more concerned about whether or not they can see another betta or not.
I know nothing about sea horses but if your dead set on dwarf sea horses I suggest do as much research as possible, and then some more. 

I'd say get another betta ;-) but I am biased.


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

oops sorry, didnt read the rest of the thread...


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm not concerned on what seahorses need lol I just said anything under 20g for saltwater is difficult. And that seahorses are hard to keep. But if you wanted to try it, its your money right? Saltwater is expensive.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I know... I don't think i'm ready! I'm 13... Argh.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Im almost 27 and I'm not even ready for saltwater LOL I was going to do a nano tank with two clowns, but I chose to do the Fluval Ebi shrimp tank instead


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

Saltwater is way harder than freshwater, and much more expensive.

Really I've seen people do coral reefs for the Fluval Edge which is 6 gallons, but they had to do a lot of mods. And just coral reefs nothing else.

I wouldn't recommend dwarf seahorses, any othe kind of saltwater environment for such a small tank.

Just get another Betta for your three gallons, thinking that they'll get jealous is just silly.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

I would love a big saltwater community tank but I can imagine it would be very hard and alot more time consuming and expensive..
I'm sure if you do you research and speak with enough people and learn what is needed to be done and feel you can do it and have the money for it and for the up-keep then I say give it a go 
My local pet shop has a case with 2 little seahorses in there and I have been in there alot of the past month and there is a dead one in has been everytime I go in.. poor thing..
If you dont want it RIGHT now and are willing to do a few weeks/ months research do it


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Seahorses are the HARDEST CREATURE TO CARE FOR EVER. I don't think you're financially or mentally ready for any kind of saltwater venture, its crazy expensive and if you don't do your research, you're just killing innocent fish, you know?

I think a betta in a 3g would be great. There isnt really anything else that can be housed in something so tiny.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I know, I am willing to put a ton of work in it. But they would die in anything over 10 gallons problably. 

Gahhh... How much money is it, though? Would I need a new filter? How much is salt?


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well, I hear that just a protein skimmer is 100 bucks. Also, I did some research as well, and it is recommended to have a 10g tank with dwarf seahorses as they are apparantly prolific breeders. Your 3g will not be enough.

Edit: This website mentions alot of good points, such as the tank MUST BE CYCLED for them (which can only happen in larger tanks most of the time anyways). It mentions *nothing* about them dying in a 10g or bigger.
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/dwarfguide/dwarfguide.shtml


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

BettaMiah said:


> I know, I am willing to put a ton of work in it. But they would die in anything over 10 gallons problably.
> 
> Gahhh... How much money is it, though? Would I need a new filter? How much is salt?


Really I've been doing some research myself: http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/dwarfguide/dwarfguide.shtml

As I said, saltwater aquariums are much more costly than freshwater. Much more costly than an average thirteen year old can provide. They will give birth, seeing how you can six, even I can't tell the difference between male and female seahorses. Apparently they will reproduce very fast and your tank will be overpopulated with fry. 

Which means if you want to keep the fry you'll have to provide more tanks in the months to come if the fry survives and mature into adults, you don't want to overstock with seahorses as they are VERY sensitive to water chemistry, which leads to cycling your tank and maintaining water chemistry with water changes. 

I'm going to say it again, and not trying to offend you but I don't think you're ready for dwarf seahorses. They're one of the hardest aquatic creatures to care for, and probably cost quite a lot of money too.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I think I am going to continue looking in to it. They need at most 10 gallons, 2-5 is better. So I will get 3 pairs to start, and they will problably breed, and I can have at max 12. Maybe i'll start with 2? They can make their own herd! These guys are 10$ each.

Yeah I saw that. It says 10 might be better, but it also said 2-5 is recommended.

Maybe next year. I don't think I can just jump into seahorses. 

What else can you guys recommend (other than a betta, or maybe a different type of betta?)


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

I really don't think you're ready, maybe wait a year or so, when you can do real research (not just believing pet stores) and save up lots of money. I mean no offense.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Oh no I COMPLETELY agree with you. I wasn't going to go off and get them right now anyways! Maybe next year. I only got into aquarium keeping less than a year ago! And boom I have 15 wet pets!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

In a three gallon you could put in a single Dario Dario, a colony of shrimp, a pair or trio of Sparkling Gouramis, or possibly a single male apistogramma. 

Not much will fit in a 3 gallon, but there are a couple more options. If you really planted up the tank with a good, nutrient-rich substrate and chucked in plenty of floaters and stems, the plants should act sort of like a living filter (they have to be healthy and visibly growing for this to happen), which should make use of most of the waste produced by your stock. 

Bettas are fairly tolerant of large and frequent water changes, which is something you'd want to avoid with more fragile species. However, as 3 gallons are not very good at holding a stable cycle, the plants should help in reducing ammonia and nitrate levels.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I have no idea what any of those species are.... Can you inform me a little bit about them? I am very, very interested in getting a new species of fish!

But I already have shrimp, so no thanks on that one!


Oh, and preferrably fish can find at Petsmart/petco.


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

If you really want some saltwater Creatures then what about some brine shrimp


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

Ok, I know this is a bit late, but I'm about to venture into saltwater, and to your cost question, I was looking to upgrade my 10 gallon, which already had everything( as long as you have live rocks, you don't need a filter, you need powerhead, but seeing as DS hate current, I would use a protein skimmer. New tank and everything, your looking at 450-500$, counting 2 Seahorses. But I honestly wouldn't do it unless you already have had a saltwater. You can research all you want, but in my experience only the real thing can prepare you. And a decent sized bucket of salt is 30$.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, you aren't going to find fish suitable for a nano tank at your local Petsmart and Petco. You are probably going to need to go to a reputable LFS. 

http://www.seriouslyfish.com is an excellent site for researching species. It covers everything from pH to tank size to breeding in its profiles. I recommend starting your search there.

I also remembered you could keep a trio of smaller killifish (Clown Killifish are only about an inch or so long when fully-grown) in a 3 gallon tank. Although some annual killifish do only live for a year or so. Mine is not a very active fish and mostly sits at the top of the tank waiting for insects to drop in.


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

I've been wondering....are Killifish Freshwater? I know that's a pretty stupid question. I'm considering ALLOT of things for my 10 gallon after it's done, including Poison Dart Frogs. What are good species for a 10 gallon? Sorry for hijacking.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Yes all the killfish I've seen here are freshwater, but I know we're are fairly limited in terms of what can be imported in here. 

This person keeps Gardneri in his ten gallon and I believe they are good beginner fish and very hardy. Although I have seen it mentioned two males will fight if housed together. It's also recommended to keep more females than males as they can be harassed quite a bit.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Hm...


Which set up would you suggest? (I've dropped saltwater. No way in hell I have that much cash!)

This might sound greedy or something, but what is the prettiest fish I can have in there, and which is the one that I can have the most?

What about Endlers...


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

You posted as I was typing I had a long list about the care of dwarf seahorses... Never mind


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## diablo13 (Jul 1, 2011)

Endlers? Only the males are pretty, and they're too active to have more than 3, so 1 male and 2 females.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Hm.... 

Any other suggestions?


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

...


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

..


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## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

Nothing really. That you can find at Petco, your better off getting another betta


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## ManInBlack2010 (Sep 7, 2011)

i know it says in your siggy that you're getting two african dwarf frogs, have you thought about maybe letting them have the 3g to themselves? i just recently got a female for my 3.5g with my male betta and she's been scared out of her mind at my fish, and he hasn't done anything but be curious about her. the froggies might be happier in their own tank without any predators


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## Miyazawa (Sep 14, 2011)

ManInBlack2010 said:


> i know it says in your siggy that you're getting two african dwarf frogs, have you thought about maybe letting them have the 3g to themselves? i just recently got a female for my 3.5g with my male betta and she's been scared out of her mind at my fish, and he hasn't done anything but be curious about her. the froggies might be happier in their own tank without any predators


you put your male betta with your female betta in the same tank?


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

No thanks....


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## Miyazawa (Sep 14, 2011)

BettaMiah said:


> No thanks....


that wasn't a suggestion....i was asking her a question......


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## ManInBlack2010 (Sep 7, 2011)

Miyazawa said:


> you put your male betta with your female betta in the same tank?


no 'her' meaning the frog, my female lives in a 10g with some cory cats

edit: even that response was confusing *facepalm* my frog is a female, and she lives with my male. my female betta lives in a different tank


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## Miyazawa (Sep 14, 2011)

ManInBlack2010 said:


> no 'her' meaning the frog, my female lives in a 10g with some cory cats
> 
> edit: even that response was confusing *facepalm* my frog is a female, and she lives with my male. my female betta lives in a different tank


haha sorry, i misunderstood you LOL scared and amazed me for a while


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## ManInBlack2010 (Sep 7, 2011)

Miyazawa said:


> haha sorry, i misunderstood you LOL scared and amazed me for a while


haha yeah no, not gonna try that lol


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## ksage505 (Sep 19, 2011)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but what about guppies? I'm not sure what the size requirement for them is but they're very small. Maybe a few males? You can find some really great colors with them.


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## ksage505 (Sep 19, 2011)

According to live aquaria, Glo Fish are good for a one gallon aquarium if you like those. 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+2855+3026&pcatid=3026


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## Miyazawa (Sep 14, 2011)

ksage505 said:


> According to live aquaria, Glo Fish are good for a one gallon aquarium if you like those.
> 
> http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+2855+3026&pcatid=3026


well it is a bit small for glo fish since you normally house them in group of 5, same to guppies too


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Glofish are danios which require a large schooling group and minimum 2 foot tank as they are extremely boisterous and rapid swimmers. Guppies would not thrive in a 3 gallon uncycled tank. 

Frankly you are not going to fit many fish in a 3 gallon tank, at least not humanely. Those tanks are really only ideal for shrimp and bettas.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

I would give up on finding anything that would be happy in that size of tank. Like LittleBettaFish said, nothing can humanely be in there besides a betta, shrimp, and snails. If you want other fish so bad, get a 10g or larger.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Glofish! I would love those guys. 


Keep the suggestions comming!


Wait so 1 gallon per Glofish?


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## Princess Penny (Aug 26, 2011)

In a 3 gal, betta or shrimp only. Nothing else will thrive. And I highly doubt any of your other bettas are going to be jealous that the new betta gets an extra half gallon, lol


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## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Ever considered turning that 3 gallon into a biotope?


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

A what? 

I am looking at those that LittleBettaFish suggested. I want fish  

Can you inform me about those guys, LittleBetta? I looked them up and they are absoloutely stunning, I would love one of those! Please gimme some more info on housing and what they like and what to feed them and such. Thanks!


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## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

A biotope basicly is replicating the conditions fish live in the wild live in. For a 3 gallon which im working on myself you lay down a layer of sand then some aquarium plant clay. Pick plants that are from the biotope you want and are suitable for your tank. For example Im using Cryptocoryne,and Eleocharis both dont need muuch other than the clay to stay alive. then add some Tanis elements like drift wood and you got yourself a Biotope from Southeast Asia. 

There are also Dwarf Roseboras you MIGHT be able to squeeze into a 3 gallon biotope if you play your cards right.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I read that you could keep 6-8 apistogramma Cichlids in a 10 gallon tank! Wow! I really like the idea of Ciclids... The other fish you reccomended to me seemed iffy... I really don't know about them. 

So based on that ratio, what about 2 males?

Thanks! I really don't want to play in iffy game, though. I mean, why risk poor little fishs lifes? I would feel really bad, besides... I am really hooked on the Cichlids right now! They are BEAUTIFUL!


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

No glofish, they are modified zebra danios which need 20g+ because they are so active.

I seriously don't think you should try anything else besides a betta in a 3g. ITS JUST TOO SMALL.


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## ksage505 (Sep 19, 2011)

I can't imagine keeping any kind of cichlid in a three gallon, especially more than one. Cichlids are extremely messy.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I am looking at different types of fish... not common ones. Like the one LittleBetta fish suggested...

Agreed. Like Neon Tetras! They need lots of room beause they are small but active.

Yes, but there are hundreds of thousands of types of Cichlids out there. Common ones like Oscars need lots of room, but who is to say another can't be fine in a gallon? (Not saying one IS, beacuse I don't know but it is possible.)


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## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

3 gallons cant to much other than make great tanks for bettas, dwarf frogs or simulating their biotopes.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Shrimp tanks are fun!  I've always wanted one myself! Or, I would say a plakat betta or a female betta. They always seem to swim the most with their little fins so it's easily justifiable why they would be in a slightly bigger tank!


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

I have shrimp, already. 

Continutuing research on the Cichlids... I want...


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Do you mean apistos? I wouldn't keep a pair in a 3 gallon tank, but as I mentioned, you *may* be able to house a single male or female if their adult size is appropriate. I personally haven't kept them, but my brother has and they can be very territorial and aggressive towards each other depending on the species.

Personally I'd rather go a pair or trio of sparkling gouramis. They are unusual and I believe actually make a croaking sound on occasion. Plus they only grow to around 1.5 inches.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Okay, if you think that is safer. Can you tell me a little about them? Where can I get them?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Trichopsis&species=pumila&id=37

That is a whole page of them. They go a lot darker in heavily planted/dimly lit aquariums. They don't need a filter but will need a heater.

You could probably ask your LFS to get them in for you as they shouldn't be that rare.


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## BettaMiah (Sep 12, 2011)

Sweet! So 3? 

I didn't find the best info on tank size on that website, but I did look at it. 

I will ask! Thanks.


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