# Setback in recovery - Please HELP



## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I posted a few weeks ago about the trials and tribulations of my male betta, Mo Hawkins.

You can read that here: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2578602#post2578602

I went away for 4 days and left him in the care of my co-workers. When I left him he was good (not great but good). He had his appetite and personality and his fin rot seemed to be improving.

Upon my return he was back to laying at the bottom of the tank and hardly moving.

I had turned the filter off during his fin rot recovery and when I went to turn it back on he just couldn't handle the current. He doesn't have enough strength for it. He still eats. He seemed a bit bloated so I fasted him and fed him a pea last night. 

I did a 100% water change on Monday since the water was "dirty" with poop upon my return. I added some aquarium salt after not having used any in over 1 week.

I am going to check his water parameters this morning and I will lower the water level so he doesn't have far to go to reach the surface but I don't know what else to do.

He is definitely kinda bent at times so I assume it's something to do with his swim bladder but could it be something else that I should be treating with medicine maybe?

Any advice is appreciated.


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## darkangel (Jun 11, 2013)

well judging from the photos from your previous thread, i think he started tail biting from stress (either temp to high or changing too much) and might have gotten slightly infected.

what did you treat him with?

can you update as on the current tank conditions?

I would add 1/2 tsp per gallon of aq. salt to begin.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I reall don't think he's tail biting though. Right now I'm not sure the fin rot is his biggest issue.

He's lethargic and sits on the bottom of the tank.

I've only been treating him with aquarium salt and clean water. I put aquarium salt in yesterday (1 teaspoon/gallon) but for the week previous I stopped that as he was doing much better.

He's still in his 2.5 gallon tank but I only have it about half full so it's easier for him to reach the surface.

The temp is about 78 degrees.
The ammonia was somewhere between o and .25.

His filter is off and his heater is on.

He was fed a pea last night and he still has an appetite.

I'd like to turn his filter on but he isn't strong enough for it.

Here are a few pictures of him from this morning:


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## darkangel (Jun 11, 2013)

oh okay, he looks really weak.

lethargy/lying at the bottom are just signs his sick and since most diseases are caused by microbes, I think you might want to try a broad antimicrobe. sometimes aquarium salt doesn't work, especially if a fish is very stress and doesn't have a good immune system, which I think in your case is true. 

you can buy Jungle's fungus clear, it s a broad antibacteria/fungus or API's triple sulfa. I think petsmart carries both, walmart carries the fungus clear. jungle's products are cheaper and a bit more gentle but you need to treat longer. I used to clear popeye on my fish, make sure if you use it, you use it for at least a week.

for a future tip, his tail doesn't look like it was completely caused by finrot, the edges are too straight. he might have either bitten his tail when he wasn't so sick or it got damaged in the filter intake. than the tail got infected, the egdes look like progressing finrot. I would try to get him a silk plant he can rest on. you might also want to wrap a mesh around the intake of your filter in the future. cover the tank with a towel, its a good way to reduce stress.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Is his buoyancy affected? Is he bloated? (I can't tell in the photos.) 

Since you think the issue is with his swim bladder, I would discontinue the aquarium salt. It contains sodium, which can contribute the fluid retention, bloating and swim bladder issues.

Instead of aquarium salt, I would use Epsom salt. It reduces fluid retention and bloating, and acts as a laxative. It doesn't contain sodium, so it doesn't stress the kidneys, the way that aquarium salt does. 

1) Put some of his tank water into a cup.
2) Add the same # of teaspoons of Epsom salt as you have gallons of water in the tank. Ie: If you currently have 1.5 gallons of water in the tank, add 1.5 teaspoons Epsom salt to the cup. 
3) Stir until the salt is completely dissolved.
4) Add 1/4 of the Epsom salt solution to the tank. 
5) Wait 15-30 minutes. Then add another 1/4 of the solution.
6) Repeat this two more times. In other words, you're adding 25% of the Epsom salt solution to the tank every 15-30 minutes. So the process should take from 1-2 hours to complete.

This will provide a dosage of 1 teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon. 

Keep him in this dosage of Epsom salt for a few days. If you do a water change, add Epsom salt at the same dosage (1 tsp/gal).

If you don't have Epsom salt, it's available at supermarkets and pharmacies (but not pet/fish stores). Look for plain magnesium sulfate. (No dyes, additives or perfumes.)

Also, cover the top of the tank with plastic food wrap. This will increase the humidity level of the air, and make it easier for him to breathe. It also has a calming effect. Make sure you leave at least several inches of air for him to breathe. (I can see you're OK, since the tank is only partly filled.)

If you can find mosquito larvae for him, that would be great! This is their natural diet. It provides good nutrition, and will keep his bowels moving along. (Amazing the things we talk about on a public forum, huh?)

Keep us updated!


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

My fish also developed a tail biting habit (Out of loneliness when his companion died). He also lies on his side at the bottom of the tank, but this is something he does even when he's healthy. Sometimes they just start doing things like that out of the blue. My hospital tank is also 2.5 gallons. Here are some things I recommend based on my experience:

If natural remedies (Clean water and salt) aren't working, I'd recommend you try bettafix. It works quickly, is effective, and tends to calm the fish as well.

I have a whisper low-flow filter for my 2.5 gallon. It took my betta a little while to get used to it, but once he did he could swim in and out of the current easily, even with an injured tail fin. My particular filter includes bio and mechanical filtration, and aerates the water without the use of an air stone. This feature is good for the bettas when they are feeling weak or injured, because the extra oxygen in the water relieves them of the pressure to constantly get air from the surface. As with all filters, I had to remove the carbon when medicating with bettafix. 

I have three leaf hammocks and a broad leaf fake plant in the tank, all safe for bettas. By arranging the leaves and the plant at different levels, my fish was able to rest at whatever depth he wanted, and could make it all the way to the top of the plant decoration by using the hammocks as though they were stairs. Although it may seem like the fish don't understand the arrangement at first, they will use it when they need to. This, and the aeration from my filter, eliminated the need for me to lower my water level. 

I hope this helps!


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Also, when feeding became a problem with my other fish, I added one of those food cubes you put in the water when you're going on a long vacation. This way, the fish can pick at it whenever they want, and it is meant to be in the water for a long period of time, unlike pellets and freeze-dried food.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I fasted him for a second time and gave him a pea. He's pooped green twice so I'd say that worked. I added some water back into the tank (which still has the aquarium salt from Monday in it) so I could turn the filter on. I feel like he needs the filter and I watched him closely and he seems stronger today and able to handle the current. 

He's a bit more active today but still resting on the bottom of the tank.

I'm debating trying some Betta Fix. I'm hesitant b/c I don't want to do further harm but since he's only slightly improved I'm willing to give it a try I guess. I might stop by my local fish store and ask them for some advice.

This poor fish has really been put through the wringer the past month but he's a fighter.


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## Kanra Chan (Feb 8, 2013)

Many people condemn Bettafix because they confuse it with Melafix, which is harmful to bettas. However, even though Bettafix is an excellent medication for the speedy recovery of physical wounds, some fish plain don't like medication, and psychological stress will stall physical recovery. The same could be said for salt if not used correctly (Although, when used correctly, it is a proven stress-reducing tonic). 

My fish was young and very sensitive when I started using medications and salt to treat him. I find it's important to keep them happy during recovery, or they do have the tendency to reject your care. Things I did were to feed my guy frozen bloodworms (Or other live foods). It really makes a difference in their attitude. LittleBlue's suggestions for mosquito larvae and epsom salts are excellent, but if your fish isn't eating yet, it's safe to say you can focus on the medication side of things first.

Glad to hear he's getting better though!


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

He seems to be doing a lot better (again). Hardly sitting on the bottom. He comes rushing over when you enter the room. He has a good appetite. 

I'm honestly not sure how his fin rot is doing. It doesn't seem to be getting worse though.

I'm just going to try to not stress him out as much as possible and hopefully he fully reovers.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Seems like he's taken a turn for the worse again. I honestly don't know what's causing it or how to help him at this point.

He's laying on his side again and every now and again darts around the tank like a lunatic. My previous betta did this shortly before he died.

Sad.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

sorry


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Bettafix can effect betta's labyrinth organs and really not recommended to use. It also very easy to overdose which will harmful to betta.
Try to use Epsom salt just like LittleBlueFishlets recommended in her post#5(read her instruction) . And i would not use the filter now. Do daily water changes , add Epsom to new water every time you change it. Make sure Epsom without any additives , just pure unscented Epsom salt .
Did he develop any other visual symptoms on the body?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I can't see the photos on my kindle. 
1) Does any part of him look bloated or swollen?
2) When was the last time he pooped?
3) Did you add Epsom salt (as I suggested previously)?
4) Does he have any external symptoms (spots, lesions, etc)?

I would use Epsom salt. I would not use peas.

ETA: If you have been using Epsom salt (at a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gal, or higher) and he has no external symptoms, I would try an antiparasitical medication like API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard. 

Also, did you put him into the same tank as your previous Betta? If so, how soon afterwards was this? And did you clean or disinfect the tank at all?


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

sorry didn't see any reply , thank you for helping


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

@Sunlight - you should have left your post. It was a good reply!


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I can't see the photos on my kindle.
> 1) Does any part of him look bloated or swollen?
> 2) When was the last time he pooped?
> 3) Did you add Epsom salt (as I suggested previously)?
> ...


My previous betta died 1 1/2 years ago. I've had this betta for a little over 1 year.

I have not noticed anything visiblly wrong with his body.

He pooped probably on Thursday. I didn't feed him much yesterday. I just gave him 2 pellets and he perked up to eat them.

I didn't use the epsom salt. He appeared to be doing better at the time. I will try it though. Also, his filter is off and has been for a few days and I lowered his water level again, too.

My only concern is stressing him out too much with a 100% water change. That can't be good in his state, right?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Epsom salt has laxative effect. 
If you will acclimate him right way he will be fine with daily water changes. Or you can alternate daily water changes 50% and 100%. And redose new water with every change.
And if you can go to the pet store and buy frozen daphnia. People saying it good for the constipation and it also enriched in protein and will help to strengthen his immune system. Epsom salt has laxative effect .

Here is a few ways to acclimate your betta

1. can have betta in the changing cup with about 15% of the water and keep adding small amount of the new water about every 5 min for about 5-6 times -this way you he will get used to the temperature

2. Note the temperature of the water.

Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
Repeat steps 5-7, until about an hour has passed. (If he sits longer because you're studying, that's OK.)
Gently release him into the tank.

3. To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.

4. When I change the water I put him in the cup I got him in then I take everything out of the tank, rinse everything with warm tap water. Then I put everything back in the tank, fill it with dechlorinated new water, and then turn the heater on. When the tank water is the same as the cup water , then take the dirty cup water out and a little at a time and put clean tank water in the cup. After that I put the cup in the tank and he swims out.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Update:

He's not doing any better. Worse perhaps.

He just lays at the bottom. Today he is having trouble "catching" his food in his mouth to the point where he just gives up.

I feel so bad. I don't know what else to do for him (other than medicate him, I suppose).


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

*Update - still need help - he seems to be suffering more than ever.*










This is Mo Hawkins from a few minutes ago.

He's in Epsom salt water and that seems to have made things worse. I took out some water to make it easier for him to get to the surface. His breathing is very labored.

I don't know what else to do. We've been battling his problems for a month now. I would like to ease his pain and suffering but I'm at a loss now. Any other ideas?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry i would think he at the stage that he needs to be medicated


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

But with what medicine? He eats and poops so I don't think he's constipated. His balance definitely seems off and he's fairly life-less.

On hand I have Betta Fix and Betta Revive. Will either of those help?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Is there any possibilities you can but the medication that LittleBlueFishlets recommended in her post #14? And it better API General Cure.
I would not use Betta Fix it not recommended and bad for betta labyrinth organs and it very easy to overdose. And its not going to help anyway since he has i think more likely internal problems. I am not sure about Betta Revive since i think it also for external problems.
If you can't buy those other meds i would really use Epsom. He didn't get worse from Epsom salt. He got worse from whatever he has going on with him and its just progressing.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I went in to our local/just about only tropical fish store and the kid behind the counter was useless. He first tried to give me medicine and the packaging looked yellowed and I asked him if he had another one as this one looked old. He said no and that's fine. Then I read the bottle - the medicine expired in 2008.

He had no clue what he was talking about. I bet I'd have better luck in the advice department from Petco or Petsmart. So disappointed. This store did not have either of the medicines suggested in an earlier post.

Last night I gave Mo Hawkins clean water and added a dose of Betta Revive. He's no better today. Worse maybe. It's so hard to tell.

He's still laying on the bottom and his breathing is labored. He will eat if he sees the pellet but I feel helpless. He's just suffering and it's not obvious what he's suffering from so I don't know how to help him.

Trying this and trying that and trying this again I think has done nothing beneficial for him. 

Should I take him out of the Betta Revive and back into clean, clear water? Leave him in this for 3 days as the package says. 

:0(


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry i know it frastrating, but you doing all posoble you can. And if it easier for you to know , bettas don't feel pain like we do , all he feels is just he is loved by you and he is just uncomfortable.That is why i don't like to euthonize them , i like when they die naturally. So don't thinik that he is suffering from the pain. And especially if he is eating sometimes it also saying that he don't have pain. 
I have a few questions would you please answer them? Please put your answer right next to my questionsIt will be the same questions that LittleBlueFishlets actually asked you before. I think it very important questions to understand what is going on. 
Did he ever had buoyancy issue?
Ever was bloated?
I think he was not constipated?
His poo never was white or broken white, clear wormy stringy shape?
I tried to read the posts again and i think you never said that he had any of the issue that i described above? And from the other post that you made prior and from that picture you posted looks like he has fin rot which is some kind of external bacteria. 
And in one of your post you said that you treated him with aquarium salt and he got better?
I did ask LittleBlueFishlet to check on your thread again. I was thinking if it good idea to do aq salt on him again ONLY if he never had buoyancy issue , never was bloated . Meanwhile since you already have him in Betta Revive water just keep him in there and wait for LittleBlueFishlets to reply. She is not on the forum right now but proboble will be later on. 
Sorry


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

anhel123 said:


> sorry i know it frastrating, but you doing all posoble you can. And if it easier for you to know , bettas don't feel pain like we do , all he feels is just he is loved by you and he is just uncomfortable.that is why i don't like to euthonize them , i like when they die naturally. So don't thinik that he is suffering from the pain. And especially if he is eating sometimes it also saying that he don't have pain.
> I have a few questions would you please answer them? Please put your answer right next to my questionsit will be the same questions that littlebluefishlets actually asked you before. I think it very important questions to understand what is going on.
> 
> Did he ever had buoyancy issue? Yes. Still does.
> ...


 
also i did purchase some maracyn ii today. The dosing has me all confused sine he's in a 2.5 gallon tank so i have yet to do anything with that.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I went back to your previous thread. Here's a summary of that thread and this. Let me know if anything needs to be corrected.

- You got Mo *(double tail) about a year ago*. During this time, he's lived both at your work and home. 
- In July, the temp was about *95F*, so you brought him back to work where he immediately became *listless and tattered*. He's in a *2.5 gal filtered tank at 89F. (Ammonia levels listed as OK.) * Aquarium salt added 0.2 tsp/gal.
- Someone at work overfed him. He was fasted and fed a pea.
- Photo from 7/22 indicates *minor fin rot* on the anal fin. There may also be tail biting, or catching on decorations. 
- You state *you've been adding Aquarium salt*, but I don't see any amounts listed, or how often this is being done.
- Photo from 7/24 indicates *fin rot on both the anal and caudal (tail) fins*.

On this thread: 8/7

- He appeared to be getting better, and his fin rot was improving. 
- You left for 4 days, and returned to find him lying on the bottom, barely moving.
- He was still eating, but seemed *bloated* so you fasted him and fed him a pea.
- He had been off aquarium salt for a week. You added* aquarium salt again: 1 tsp/gal. Water temp 78F. Ammonia between 0-0.25ppm. Filter turned off.*
- Photos from 8/7 indicate the *fin rot has worsened. But main problem appears to be that he is lying on the bottom.*
- 8/8 - You *fasted him again and gave him a pea*. He pooped green. You added more *aquarium salt and turned the filter back on*. He appeared a little stronger and more active, but was still resting on the bottom of the tank.
- 8/10 - You say he is *doing better* w/ regard to activity level and eating.
- 8/17 - You say he is *back to resting on his side and darting "around the tank like a lunatic." He is still eating.*
- 8/18 - Photo indicates *progressing fin rot along the caudal (tail) fin.* Compared to the photo from 7/24, his body appears more brown? Is this the case, or is it just the photo angle/lighting? *Epsom salt* was added (but I don't see a specific amount.) He has *difficulty swimming and reaching the surface*. You feel the Epsom salt made him worse.
- 8/20 - He is still *lying on the bottom. Breathing is labored. He still eats *when offered a pellet. Betta Revive was added, at some point. He still has *buoyancy issues*. 
- You purchased Maracyn 2, but have not used it yet.

Is that a pretty accurate account of everything that's gone on?

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If the above is pretty much OK.... Fin rot is often caused by a bacterial infection (due to gram-negative bacteria). However, he also appears to have something internal going on that is affecting his buoyancy. I don't see any major bloating, and he doesn't seem to be constipated. 

Is there any way you can order *Kanaplex (kanamycin)* online? It's not usually available in pet/fish stores? Kanaplex is a broad spectrum antibiotic (meaning it treats lots of bacterial infections). And it's one of the few antibiotics that treats both external and internal issues. 

What type of pellets do you feed him? 

Can you get any *mosquito larvae*? If so, feed him a few. Mosquito larvae are their natural diet, so they can digest them well and get lots of good nutrition from them.

Since he's still eating, it's important that you feed him *frequent small meals*. He needs good nutrition to help his immune system fight his. 

What's the water temp right now? Is the filter on or off? How often are you doing water changes?

I would keep him in clean, warm water. Do NOT feed him any more peas. They can't digest these well, and it sounds like he isn't constipated. Instead, focus on good nutrition. Mosquito larvae would be ideal....

How high is the water level in the tank? If he's having trouble reaching the surface, you can lower it. But this also means you'll have to do more frequent water changes. Frequent water changes are required to keep the toxin, ammonia and bacterial levels low.

*Kanaplex (kanamycin)* would be a really good thing to try at this point. You'll probably have to order it online. Petsmart/Petco don't carry it, but another fish/pet store may have it or be able to order it for you, if you don't want to get it online.

If you can't get the Kanaplex, then you could try the Maracyn 2. BUT Maracyn 2 will only treat EXTERNAL (not internal) issues, and it sounds like he has both external and internal issues. Also, Maracyn 2 is much harsher on the internal organs (kidneys and liver) than Kanaplex. Since he's already having internal problems, I really worry that the Maracyn 2 could make them worse..... Again, KANAPLEX is your best option, IMO....

Keep us updated. Detailed, specific info is good. There's no such thing as 'too many' details with regard to his condition and the medications/additives that you're using, and his tank environment....


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I went back to your previous thread. Here's a summary of that thread and this. Let me know if anything needs to be corrected.
> 
> - You got Mo *(double tail) about a year ago*. During this time, he's lived both at your work and home.
> - In July, the temp was about *95F*, so you brought him back to work where he immediately became *listless and tattered*. He's in a *2.5 gal filtered tank at 89F. (Ammonia levels listed as OK.) *Aquarium salt added 0.2 tsp/gal.
> ...


Oh my goodness thank you for the detailed reply.

Here is a pic of him from a few minutes ago. He's alternates between listless at the top of the tank and laying on the bottom. Still labored breathing.










Here is a link to a video I just shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zADI5AXnb0


His filter is off (it's out of the tank completely actually).
Water temp is 83 degrees. Unfortunately, it's warm here again and there is no constant running ac in the house.
Water level is near the top again but I can lower it.
Water change was this morning - 25%.
He hasn't had a pea in nearly well over a week.

I worry he doesn't have much time left to wait for Kanaplex to get here. Should I just try the Maracyn 2 do you think? Or should I take him out of the Betta Revive water and just use clean/warm water?

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. I feel so helpless just watching him suffer and don't know what I'd do without this message board.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

LittleBlueFishlets logged out before she saw your reply . But i would definitely lower the water so it would be easier for him to get to the top. And do more water changes than 25% though, do daily 50%.
About medications if you have any small fish stores near you , may be they can carry Kanaplex? 
Its a big plus that he is eating at least sometimes, if you can find mosquito larvae for him, or if you can't find larvae try to feed him with frozen blood worms you can easily find it at the pet store. 
Medications: just like LittleBlueFishlets said that he probobly has external infection along with internal and Kanaplex is the best to treat both of them , but if you can't get it you can try Maracyn. Maracyn will treat only external problem though ...i don't think any one can tell you if it will or will not help. But i think if you can't get Kanaplex try Maracyn. And i would still do 50% daily water changes even with medications. Just redose required dose for that day with each 50% water change.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Betta Revive isn't going to do much right now. IMO, he really needs a good antibiotic instead. I wouldn't bother doing a water change to remove it though. Just do your water changes with plain (conditioned) water. 

As Anhel suggested, you might want to call around to see if local stores carry Kanaplex. (Petsmart and Petco don't. But other places might.) 

If you can't get Kanaplex, then go ahead and try the Maracyn 2. 

Most fin rot is caused by gram negative bacterial infections.... And Maracyn 2 (minocycline) is a gram-negative antibiotic. So there's a chance it would work on the external fin rot, at least..... 

Maracyn 2 won't work on any internal infection, though. (This is why I recommend Kanaplex.).... And it will kill bacteria in the water, which will reduce the numbers of 'bad bacteria' that he comes in contact with. So that's a positive thing, too.

So I do think Kanaplex is the better choice. But if you don't have that option, then yes, go ahead with the Maracyn 2.

------------------------------------------------
@Anhel - Not Maracyn (erithromycin). Maracyn (erithromycin) only treats gram-positive bacteria. So Maracyn 2 would be the better option, since it's effective on fin rot. (Maracyn is often good for stuff like eye infections though!)


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I'll call around to see if I can find any Kanaplex but there are not a lot of fish stores in existence around here anymore and the one I do know of I went to the other day and they were useless.

He's barely hanging on at this point so I decided to give him a dose of the Maracyn 2. I removed about 25% of his water last night to lower the water level and I did another 25% water change this morning but didn't remove all the Betta Revive and added back in water to = 2.5 gallons to make dosing the Maracyn 2 easier.

Thank you so much for the advice. I'll keep you posted. I hope he rallies back (once) again.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Just thought I'd update those who are interested.

He's still hanging on but barely. He sort of just stays at the top of the tank (no longer sitting on the bottom) and I take that as a bad sign. 

He will eat a pellet if placed near him.

He's been in the Maracyn 2 since yesterday morning. I added his second dose this morning. The only thing I've noticed is that a part of his tail fell off. If you look at my previous picutures he had one long strand and that fell off. I don't know what that means if it means anything.

This is him yesterday:










This is him this morning:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It good that he is eating though. If he eating only one pellet then you can give him more pellets throughout the day. He needs to eat to stay strong .


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I found a store that sells Kanaplex and will pick some up today. I wonder if it's just too late for it to work on him though.

He made it through another night. No better. No worse. At two pellets this morning.

Can I use the Kanaplex in conjuction with the Maracyn 2 already in the tank. Do I stop with the Maracyn 2 or continue both medicines?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Kanaplex is a good antibiotic that acts internally as well as externally. So you really don't need to use it to together because you will overmedicate him.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Ok so I'll do a 100% water change and start him on the Kanaplex.


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## memoryoverflow (Aug 23, 2013)

I hate this to be my first post on this forum as this is making me both sad and angry at the same time.

1.Do not do a 100% water change the stress at this point will make him worse. Why are you changing your water? what are your levels? are you even testing your water?

2.Continue with the Maracyn 2 the full cycle, pick up some Maracyn 1, these two can be combined with no negative effect. Do not expect him to get better in a day! *Bettafix is not going to HEAL HIM, use it afterwords to help fin regrowth and don't even bother until he is back 100%

3.Bigger tank and more things for him to interact with. Trust me when I say your betta is sick and depressed. 

4.Stop with the salt, stop with the peas.

5.Soak your pellets before you feed him to make it easier, get him a treat of a blood worms.

I wish your betta the best of luck.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

GBS said:


> Ok so I'll do a 100% water change and start him on the Kanaplex.


I would do a about 3 50% water changes about 2-3 hrs apart to get rid of the Maracyn II drug and then add Kanaplex. I know LittleBlueFishlets on line so i will ask her to reply in case she want you to do differently. So wait for her instructions.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

memoryoverflow said:


> I hate this to be my first post on this forum as this is making me both sad and angry at the same time.
> 
> 1.Do not do a 100% water change the stress at this point will make him worse. Why are you changing your water? what are your levels? are you even testing your water?
> 
> ...


Sorry there is no reason to be sad or mad. And this thread is 4 pages did you read all posts before you put your reply? We don't use salt or Bettafix at this moment. Bigger tank will not help him either at this moment unfortunately. He is not depressed he is sick which can happened to every betta any time , even if you will do everything right way. Everyone has their own way to change the water. With betta you don't need to cycle the tank , and if you acclimate betta right way you can do full water change. I do it all the time. My bettas age from 2.5 -5 years old. So it ok to do full water changes in general. And sorry i am not mad or arguing though just don't know why people get mad when they hear about 100% water changes. Thank you .


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I would stop the Maracyn 2. It's a good antibiotic, but it's harsh on the internal organs, especially the kidneys, and it will only treat external issues. Kanaplex is the better option, as it can treat any internal issues and is less harsh. (See my post #27 from the previous day.)

Since you have the Kanaplex, I would do a 100% water change. Add the Kanaplex, then do a slow acclimation so that he can get used to it. 

There are many ways to do a water change, add medication and acclimate (reintroduce) your fish back into the tank. Here is one variation that will get him into the Kanaplex as quickly as possible:

 Note the temperature of the water.
 Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
 Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner. 
 Add the correct dosage of Kanaplex. (Ask for directions if you aren't sure how to do this, and we'll provide them!)
 Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min.
 Add a SMALL amount of new water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
 Let his cup float for about 15 min. (Longer is OK.)
 Repeat the above two steps until at LEAST an hour has passed. (I would personally do this for about 90 minutes, minimum.)
 If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a small amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
 Gently release him into the tank.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I did the 100% water change and he's currently in the Kanaplex. I hope he isn't too far gone and it will help him.

Thanks again for the advice everyone.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Please keep us updated. I hope he will get better.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

If he's still eating, can you find some mosquito larvae for him? They are a Betta's natural diet, so they'll provide good nutrition. I generally just collect a few, then rinse them in some tank water, and feed them to my guys.....


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Update:

He's still alive but now instead of just floating at the top of the tank he is hiding in his hidey-hole and won't come out.

He got his second dose of Kanaplex today and he is no better (but he also might be no worse).

He did eat two pellets even though he's still struggling to eat if he misses on the first try.

Wait and see, I guess.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Well, you're doing everything you can..... It's good that he ate.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Update: 

Last day of Kanaplex treatment. Condition the same.

Any recommendations for what to do after he's done in the Kanaplex? I wonder how long he can continue on like this?

Him today:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

is he still eating? Can you feed him frozen blood worms?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, he's still eating. Can I get frozen bloodworms at PetCo or PetSmart?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Still eating is a good thing.... Frozen bloodworms, or mosquito larvae would be great.

You say his condition is the same. As in "he's not getting worse?" Before the Kanaplex, was he getting progressively worse? If so, then 'the same' isn't a bad option.

If he was getting worse prior to the Kanaplex, and has maintained his condition during the Kanaplex, then personally, I would go a second round with it.....


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks. I'll redose him in the Kanaplex.

He is once again sitting at the top of the tank instead of the bottom. He's a little peppier today and is eating well. However, when he "sits'"at the top he's fairly bent (he'll sit like this until disturbed). Take a look:










This fish is exhausting me lol.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

such a strong little guy. It good he is eating meaning he is not suffering. I guess will see how he doing when you finish second round of the medications.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

When he's at the top bent like that.... can he straighten out OK if he wants to? For example, if he sees you, can he regain his equilibrium?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> When he's at the top bent like that.... can he straighten out OK if he wants to? For example, if he sees you, can he regain his equilibrium?


Yes, he can straighten out. But when he stays still for "too" long he goes on his side or does this new "u" shape thing.

Any idea what it means?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Any further advice now that he's done with his second round of Kanaplex?

Leave him in the medicated water and do partial water changes 
Do a full water change and have him in clean water?
Full water change and aquarium salt?

He's the same. Back to sitting at the bottom. Still eats. Hasn't regained his peppiness or personality. He kinda just is.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Since you started the Kanaplex, do you see any change?

Before beginning the Kanaplex, how quickly was he getting worse? Has the worsening at least stopped since you started the Kanaplex?

Does he still bend into a U shape?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

LittleBlueFishleat i am glad you helping. I was going go reply , i thought you not on line. Thank you


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Anhel - no no.... please go ahead and help. I'm not online a lot these days. I pretty much just pop in when I get a chance.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Since you started the Kanaplex, do you see any change?
> 
> Before beginning the Kanaplex, how quickly was he getting worse? Has the worsening at least stopped since you started the Kanaplex?
> 
> Does he still bend into a U shape?


Until yesterday I thought I was seeing some minor, minor improvement in his personality at least but now that he's back to laying on the bottom I dont think there's been much improvement. I mean, he's still alive so I wouldnt say he's worse but I also don't think he's much better.

He hasn't bent into the "u" since he started laying on the bottom again. That must have been a top floating thing.

So to sum it up, I don't think the Kanaplex hurt him or made him worse and I'm not seeing any visible signs that he's any better either.
:frustrated:

I'll take advice from anyone who is willing to give it.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Was he getting worse prior to the Kanaplex? If so, then at least the Kanaplex has stopped the progression. In this case, I would do another round of Kanaplex. 

What antiparasitical meds have you given him? Have you tried anything with metronidazole and/or praziquantel? For example: API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard, etc?

And are you still using Epsom salt?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Was he getting worse? I'm having a hard time keeping straight his condition prior to starting all these different remedies to be honest. He must have been for me to try it though. 

Is there a danger is too much Kanaplex?

The only other medicine I used was Maracyn 2.

No, I am no longer using the Epsom salt. I didn't want to mix things up in there.

Thanks.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Kanaplex is one of the gentler antibiotics.

Well, there are a few options:
1) Do another round of Kanaplex.
2) Try an antiparasitical such as API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard.
3) Add Epsom salt if he's having buoyancy issues.
4) Do a combination of any, or all, of the above.

Personally, I think I would try the API General Cure or Tetra Parasite Guard next. They both contain metronidazole and praziquantel. These are established antiparasitical medications which are relatively safe to use. 

If you opt to use one of these, if at any time, he starts to get worse, go back to using the Kanaplex. Sometimes, it takes multiple rounds of Kanaplex if you're dealing with a stubborn internal bacterial infection.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I re-dosed him with the Kanaplex this morning (3rd round) and think ill try Epsom salt again, too.

If he's in 2.5 gallons how much Epsom salt should I use?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

1) Is he having buoyancy issues, or trouble reaching the surface?
2) Is he bloated at all?

I would use Epsom salt is any of these apply. (Depending on the severity, I would start with a dosage of 1 teaspoon/gal, and gradually increase it if the problems are severe or get worse while he's in the Epsom salt. This would mean a total of 2.5 teaspoons in his current 2.5 gal tank.)


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> 1) Is he having buoyancy issues, or trouble reaching the surface?
> 2) Is he bloated at all?
> 
> I would use Epsom salt is any of these apply. (Depending on the severity, I would start with a dosage of 1 teaspoon/gal, and gradually increase it if the problems are severe or get worse while he's in the Epsom salt. This would mean a total of 2.5 teaspoons in his current 2.5 gal tank.)


1. He can reach the surface. 
2. No. He's eating and pooping just fine.

He just lays on the bottom but he CAN swim and reach the surface when he wants to. 

I've seen a glimmer of personality the past two days. He even jumped for his food like he used to. It was short-lived, however.

I'll just finish with this round of Kanaplex which will end on Sunday and re-evaluate, I guess.

Thank you so much.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes, I agree. It doesn't sound like he needs any Epsom salt. Just keep using the Kanaplex through the current treatment cycle. Then re-evaluate on Sunday and determine where to go from there.

A glimmer of personality is an improvement, even if it was short lived. Hopefully, this current round of antibiotics will help.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Though you'd maybe like to see who you've all been helping try to heal/cure. Here is is from earlier today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcGEQmhniqM


Showing some signs of personality (and then just needs to take a load off and plops on the bottom lol).


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

lovely boy, how cute he is He is lucky to have you, care about his so much. I hope he will continue to improve . You still treating him until sunday?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks. He's been a bit of a labor of love.

This past Sunday was his last dose. Not sure what I'm going to do now.

Perhaps clean, clear water and see how he reacts?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes i think it would be the best thing to do after that you medicated him for long time. Just hope he will continue to improve with good nutrients and clean water . Please let us know how he doing.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey how is he doing?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi. Thanks for asking. 

He's no better. He's just in clean, clear water and he still just sits at the bottom. I caught him swimming for a bit earlier today though. He has trouble grabbing his pellets in his mouth and showed no interest in flakes today (which I gave him b/c he was having trouble with the pellets).

So, basiclly status quo,


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I had a betta with very bad fin rot, that lost all his fins and couldn't swim because of it. It took me 10-15 min to feed one pellet. It was crazy. I treated him with medications and salt . I treat him 3 times in the period of about 5 month. I treated him with salt 14 days, triple sulfa and then aq salt another round of 14 day . Again it over period of 5-6 month . So it was big brake between 2 salts treatment. But he really improved after last salt treatment. He actually recovered surprisingly . I don't know may be in a wk or so or 2 weeks you can try aq salt again. You can try it. I spoke to Oldfishlady (long time ago)who originally introduced us to the salt and she said you can repeat the salt treatment with a brake about 2 wks. 
And also when my fish was sick with bad fin rot , it was the first time since i have my betta about 7 years or so, i decided to feed them with the frozen blood worms and i really think its also made the difference my fish recovered. The frozen food has a lot of protein in it. 
And frozen bw you can hold one end with a tweezers and kind of dangle another end so he can grab it.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks. I will try the aquarium salt again and see if there is any improvement. I caught him "out for a swim" earlier today. I wonder how much he swims when I'm not around now lol.

I keep meaning to buy him frozen blood worms. I'll get around to it this weekend, hopefully.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your concern.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

So, my poor fishy hasn't eaten anything in days. He makes one half-hearted attempt and then gives up. Today he is barely moving. I'm not expecting a good outcome here. 

:-(


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Do you want to try aquarium salt? So sorry..He is not bloated right? Is he pineconning?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, he's been in aquarium salt for a week or so. No, not pineconing, at least not when I was last home. 

Just barely able to move, not eating and barely breathing (or so it appears).

He's been such a fighter that if its his time then it's his time.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry , but you are right You really tried all options that could help him.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi. He's still alive. Has not eaten anything in days. He either lays at the bottom and barely moves or darts around the tank every now and again. It's so sad.

Thanks for asking.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry, i don't know what to say. I guess just make him comfortable lower the water. Very sorry, but we always have to understand and accept the fact that our pets will get sick. We all go through this who has a pets, no matter its a dog or any other animal , fish. I had a bettas died on me, i had a dog died on me that i had for 16 years. But we think that without us those animals might suffer and never had a home. So i think you did everything you could to help him, and he had a good life under your care. I just want you feel better and i don't want you get discourage from buying another betta that also need home. I am very sorry that i am saying that but if you will buy another betta make sure you disinfect the tank. I can give you good link with instructions.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

That you for your kind words.

It will not discourage me from getting a new betta. This may sound mean but I'm looking forward to it. Mo Hawkins has been in this state for months and I miss having a lively, active fish.

Feel free to post the link to disinfecting the tank for when the time comes.

Thanks again.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you post a current photo of him, so that we can compare it to the previous ones?

I know I've posted on this thread, but it's been awhile.... 

Have you tried Kanaplex (kanamycin) for bacterial issues, along with an antiparasitical that contains metronidazole and praziquantel? 

What treatment, if any, are you doing right now?

(I know the answers to this are on the previous pages of the thread, but it's easier to ask and I'm pressed for time right now. Plus, asking will allow you to provide an update, if anything has changed.)


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks for checking back in *LittleBlueFishlet*.

I had stopped treating him with Kanaplex about 2 weeks ago. About a week ago, when he stopped eating and took a turn for the worse, I put him back in aquarium salt. He seems to have gotten a bit worse. Today, in a last ditch effort, I added a new dose of Kanaplex.

Here is a YouTube of him this morning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ_UiHX0NnU

And a photo:










I have not tried an antiparasitical.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Did he seem better (or at least not worse) while on the Kanaplex?

If he was better (or even not worse) while on it, I would use the Kanaplex nonstop for 2 weeks. He may have a stubborn infection that might require a longer period of time to treat. 

I would also try some metronidazole. This can help with internal anaerobic bacteria.

API General Cure and Tetra Parasite Guard both contain metronidazole, along with a few other ingredients. 

Both Kanaplex and metronidazole are relatively gentle on the system, so I'd use both together.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey how its going?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

No change. Still has not eaten. Just laying on bottom with the occasional dart around the tank.

Haven't had a chance to get to the store to buy him any more medicine as per LittleBlue. Human things have been hectic in my life of late.

I'm not holding out much hope but thank you for checkin in on him always. We (I'll speak for him) appreciate it


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry I kind of skeptical too that he will survive,j sorry every one and GBS for saying that.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think i regret that i wrote what i wrote. I think i see the point of LittleBlueFishlets. If he still there may be there is some kind of stubborn infection , and the another round of meds will help. I did have ,long time agoa betta that i though will die ,but after course of meds he recovered .But he was not sick for this long though.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Don't apologize. This has been going on since July and while he showed early signs of improvement back then, he never really recovered. He's been in a bad way for over a month and now that he hasn't eaten in over a week, I think it's just a matter of time, sadly. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been hoping and trying for a rebound for so long that hasn't happened that I'm feeling rather defeated.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am going to give you the link about disinfection. And i also really recommending when you buy another betta keep 2.5 gall without the filter and just do regular water changes. You can do 2-50% and 1-100% water changes a week. I think for 2 gall you don't need to use the filter. You really using it when your tank is cycled and i think 2.5 gall its easier to keep uncycled .
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2036738


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks. Is it safe to bleach a plastic tank?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes i did it myself. All my 2.5 gall tank are plastic. And i did it before. I was afraid to do it and i wash it million times and left it in the sun or just air dry for a wk to neutralize the bleach. The post that i made was from someone who also did it a few times.
Keep us updated


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

So, he's still lingering (for lack of a better word). At this point he hasn't eaten in 2 weeks and is just existing. It's very sad to watch.










However, I bought a new betta, too. He has no name yet so I'm open to suggestions. I couldn't pass him up as he was too pretty. I feel bad but Mo's condition has just been deteriorating since July. It's nice to have a healthy, peppy fish again.

Not the best photo to showcase his beautiful coloring:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry about Mo New betta is gorgeous! 
Please don't forget do not share anything between Mo and him , and don't use any decorations or anything else from Mo's tank.

Are you going to keep the tank cycled or you going to do regular water changes?

Sorry i don't want to frustrate you, may be i am just paranoid but his anal fins has that shape if he bit them off or if it torn ,i think it looks like missing chunks or may be it completely normal? Not sure keep eye on that. His caudal fins looks perfect. How is his dorsal fins looking?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Your new guy is beautiful! Congratulations on your new boy.  

Did you decide to try the Kanaplex/metronidazole combination for Mo? I don't know if it will be effective, but between the two, it will treat a wide variety of bacterial and parasitical problems.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

LittleBlueFishlets is there any good link that you recommend to order Kanaplex? I am also talking to someone that i just recommended to buy it.

Also what is about anal fins, am i wrong and paranoid? What do you think?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Anhel,

Kanaplex - Do an internet search. A lot of online stores are currently listing it as "backordered." I suggest going to Google, typing in "Kanaplex," then clicking the Shopping link. There are stores that still have it in stock, so if one store is out, just try a different one. (It's funny that you asked this, at the same moment that I was looking to see who currently has it in stock. Drs Foster and Smith is out. But there are a bunch of stores that still have it.)

I saw the anal fin. It looks to me like he ripped/tore it. (This may have happened during transport.) But it looks like there's new growth along those areas, and to me, it looks like the whole fin is already healing up. I think that he'll be fine with some clean water and good food.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for poiting out his fin. I hadn't noticed it. I need to go take a look in person. He was quite agitated on his first day in the tank b/c he kept seeing his reflection in the sides of the tank and I have since covered them and he's calmed down a lot. He's eating well after initially spitting all his pellets out and is making a bubble nest so I'm hoping if he was biting that that's over now. He is a fiesty little guy, however.

Don't worry, I bought him all new plants, hidey-holes, rocks, etc.

I decided not to use the filter. So regular water changes it is for him. I'll see how this goes.

*LittleBlue* I still have Mo medicated with Kanaplex and an anti-parasite med (can't remember the name right now) but I honestly do not think there is any hope for him.

Thanks for all the advice.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I know i am soooo paranoid when you put anything new in the tank. Just make sure you rinse everything before you put it in. And if you have live plants i would quarantine them unless you sure and trust the store. I saw some stores keep the live plants in the same tank they keep fish. And live plants can carry ich. I really like this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDs6Pu7w8Z0


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I agree, Mo isn't looking good, despite the Kanaplex and antiparasitical meds..... You've done what you can.... 

At some point, it becomes a personal decision. Do you keep medicating, and wait to see what happens? Or do you decide to euthanize? Some people will opt for one choice, others will opt for the other choice.

I have a fish in a similar situation. She's been on medication for over 3 weeks. She's just lingering on, but she's still eating. Sometimes, the pellets stay down. Sometimes, they come back up. She looks awful. But since she's still eating (or trying to), I just keep up with water changes and medication redosing.

Do you have a name for 'the new guy' yet?  IMO, his fins will be fine. It looks like there's new growth there already.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi Guys, 

Still no change in Mo Hawkins condition.

However, since you pointed out my new fish (Bo Jangles) fin, I've been watching it and yesterday I noticed it was kinda clumped together and wanted your opinions on what is happening with it.

Here is a YouTube video if you wouldn't mind taking a look and giving me a diagnosis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5MEh-LKgA

Thanks.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

hmmm looks healthy. I think his anal fins look better and he is acting healthy. Keep eye on him. If he will act differently (lay on the bottom, refusing to eat, hand on the top, any other physical symptoms then you will worry about).


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Hmm. To me the anal fins are stuck/clumped together on the end and I haven't seem them "fan" out in days.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It is , but i thought it's normal for his type. Not sure. And the fins grew back though, am i right? Just keep eye on it , as long as the edges are not black, discolored or ''smudged'', don't have white fuzzy, fluffy patches, as long as there is no change in his appetite , behavior he should be fine. I do see the blackened edges but i think it's his normal coloration.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I don't know. It wasn't like that 2 weeks ago when I first got him but he's acting fine. He's constanty looking to eat and seems fine otherwise. 

Thank for replying *ANHEL123*.

On a Mo Hawkins note. I went to clean his tank today b/c it was full of black debris (which I notice happens when using Kanaplex) so I took him out and put him in the cup he came in and decided to see if he'd eat (I bought new, smaller pellets for the new fish b/c he kept spitting out my other ones) and to my amazemet he ate 2 pellets. I've decided to leave him in his cup for a while b/c perhaps this way he'll eat if nothing else b/c there is so much less surface area for him and a pellet to exist in.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Omg it's so wonderful, wow. He still hanging in there for so long. I guess you will see how he doing. And you tried so hard for Mo and he is little strong guy , i hope he will improve. He didn't eat for so long. May be good diet can help to bring him back to health. I know i ask or someone probobly recommended it for many time, i don't remember if you have frozen food. Try it.
About new betta -He is acting healthy so just enjoy him and keep eye on the tail make sure he don't have any symptoms develop.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

So a Mo Hawkins update. Hecontinues to eat (pellets and a worm here and ther) when the food is placed nearly directly on top of him. This I consider good. However, he also has not pooped whic is worrysome. He still laying on the bottom (not that I've given him a lot of water to swim around in) but I honestly can't believe he's eating again.


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## Spinny (Oct 22, 2013)

Could Mo be having...velvet/oodinium? in some pictures it looks like there is a slight hint of gold near the gills. You can double check by shinning a bright torch light on it, more obvious that way. Or maybe its just the shades of colours on my scrren appears different since my siblings and I use the same computer and sometimes change the colouration of the computer. I find Interpet No. 8 great for fin rot, you can give it a go  

To encourage eating you can try: get fresh garlic and mash up a clove, then smoosh the food in the mushed garlic, then microwave for 30 sec with the fish food in the garlic so the juices come out. it would be good for him. It can encourage him to it.
Hope miracle will happen! Since it fought on so long he migh jump back to being healthy and perky anytime, dont give up! Its great that you're so caring towards Mo


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## Spinny (Oct 22, 2013)

sorry, typo, I meant computer "screen"


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Spinny i also like to recommend to soak the food in the garlic but i never thought to microwave it to get all guices come out. Its a good idea the only thing i would do it less than 30 sec

GBS how is Mo doing? 
I also saw your other thread about new betta i think you getting good advice there


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Good news is that Mo pooped! So he's eating and pooping. He looks like a tattered mess and has a stub if a caudal fin - not that his other fins are looking too hot right now either. He's not in any kind of medicine - just clean water. Not sure what's next but I'm happy his digestive tract is functioning.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

wow its so cool! I didn't think he will survive. Wow, good job! I think you have happy special needs betta Even though he improved just still make sure you don't share stuff between him and your new betta.


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## Spinny (Oct 22, 2013)

Thats great !!!! All your hardwork, love and care definitely paid off  Mo is so lucky to have someone like you!

Anhel123, whats the right time you recommend to microwave the garlic with pellets? Since you have kept bettas for far longer than I ever have and have much more experience


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

lol i never did garlic thing though. Somehow my bettas kind of don't get sick. So i never tried garlic. I do feed with NLS that has garlic in it and Omega one, along with frozen food once in about 9 days . 
But i just read all the time on the forum recommendation about garlic when bettas refusing to eat(its stimulate appetite) or when they have internal parasites so i always try to recommend it too. I think garlic is good for the immune system and you can use it on the regular basis, and its will work as a preventative for any disease including internal parasites. 
I really think 15-30 second is really enough or you can just live the pellets in that fresh squeezed garlic . Of course it will take longer time though


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Here is picture of Mo Hawkins I took yesterday:










He's eating like a good fishy again. Has an appetite and tries really hard to get to his food. 

However, look at him. He's a scraggly mess.

I only have him in about 2 inches of water. I increased it to about 4 inches one day and he just couldn't handle it and was unable to "catch" his food. He needs the bottom of the tank to steady him while he goes after his food. He is no longer bouyant, I guess.

He's just in clean water and I was wondering what your opinions were. Should I just continue on like this or should I try to heal what ails him?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

wow i don't know what to say. I am going to pm LittleBlueFishlets for advice. I am speechless, he definitely exceeded all our expectations. Did you mean if it good idea to treat him again with the medications?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

It's great that he's eating well again. He's an amazing little fish!

Some questions:

1) What's the current water temp?
2) What's the current water volume? (How much is in there?)
3) How often are you doing water changes? What percentage gets changed each time?
4) What are you feeding him?

For now, I would keep him in clean, warm water. Give him good nutrition, and keep stress to a minimum. Hopefully, this will allow his immune system to strengthen.

As for the fins, have they been getting worse recently? Or have they been like this awhile? If it's NOT getting worse right now, I would just monitor him. Since he's been exposed to so many meds, it would be best to give him a break for a bit.... (On the other hand, if the fin rot is getting worse, then I would treat it. It's better to treat before it gets to the body. Once the infection reaches the body, it's more difficult to treat.)


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> It's great that he's eating well again. He's an amazing little fish!
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> ...


I don't know the current water temp. I had a small heater laying around and no extra thermomter. 

He's only in about 2 inches of water.

I change all the water once a week. I'm trying to keep the trauma of scooping him up (which he fights) to a minimum.

He's eating pellets and freeze dried blood worms. Tried some flakes today b/c I thought maybe they'd be easier for him to "catch" but he seemed uninterested in those.

His fins seem to have stayed the same for the past month or two.

Sigh. I wish he could tell me what ails him. ;-)


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You really need to do daily water changes for the amount of water he is in. Once a week , he will get more sick.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I would do more partial water changes. Just remove a small amount of the water, and replace it with new water. 

Doing artial changes will reduce the stress involved in water changes, but still provide him with fresh, clean water.

Can you pick up a thermometer for him? It would be good to keep an eye on the temperature. He's in a small volume of water, so you want to make sure it's not over- or under-heated. 

What brand of pellets are you giving him? 

If you'd like to add something good for both your bettas, look into VitaChem. It's a vitamin/amino acid supplement that gets added directly to the water. I've never used it, but a lot of people on this forum have had really good results with it. The vitamins/amino acids provide nutrients which can strengthen their immune system. It's available online, including the Drs Foster and Smith website.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I have a question...do any of you think it's possible for Mo Hawkins to regrown his fins and start to swim again or is this just a slow, long road to death?

He basically looks the same as the photo I posted a few weeks ago. No better. No worse (at least that I can tell). He's still eating and pooping. I do partial water changed every day. I order the Vita Chem (but it hasn't arrived yet). I add a little aquarium salt a couple of times a week with the water change. I worry that the fin rot will go to his body and the poor little guy is just suffering every day.

I hestite to medicate him b/c he's in such a small amount of water so I'd have no real idea how to dose him. Even the aquarium salt is a guessing game. Should I try something stronger than the Kanaplex?

I would really like to heal him but I'm unsure how to go about that at this point.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Not sure. The only experience i had with my 3 years old fish 5 month ago that he had very bad fin rot. He lost all his fins . He looked like female baby betta. He couldn't swim or stay upright, or eat because he kept missing his food since he couldn't swim . I did 14 days of 3 tsp/salt, 2 wks later Triple Sulfa and he still didn't recovered. So about 2-3 wks later i decide to treat him again with 3tsp/gall aq salt with daily changes for 14 days. And the last treatment really made the diffirence. I still have him 5 month later and his fins grew back, not completely though. But he is ok and eating and swimming. Just a little special needs though . He is more slow than before and sometimes misses his food. 
May be try aq salt ? Since he is in small container you can just per mix salt in one gall jug for the right dosage and just use the same salt water for a few treatments.
Of course my situation is different though he never got to the point that Mo did My fish never stopped eating, but fins though was i think like Mo's just a lot shorter .


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Something strange is going on. Both fish have taken a turn for the worse. I don't understand. They were both ok and now they're both acting strange.

Mo Hawkins (the older fish) has crammed himself next to his heater. He wedged himself in and wouldn't eat yesterday. I did a full water change and he went right back to the heater. I did get him to eat a pellet today but his color is fading, he seems to have labored breathing.

Bo Jangles, the newer guy, stopped eating about 3 days ago. He'd get very excited for his food and put it in his mouth then spit it right out. Yesterday he just looked at the food and made no attempt. He's been staying at the bottom hardly moving. He also got a 100% water change this morning and went right back to laying at the bottom.

I wonder if whatever was causing his fins to get stuck finally caught up with him. He went from behaving fine to this.

Does anybody have a recommendation for an accurate thermometer? Sometimes his water feels way too warm and other times it feels way too cool but the thermometer ususal remains steady.

These fish are exhausting me. I'm at my wits end with one of them and now the other. Ugh.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh so sorry. What kind of the thermometer do you have? Thermometer you can have the glass one. Or some people don't like the stripe one that you stick them on outside of the tank. But i love them and i use them for all my tanks. 
Hmmm did Jangles develop more visual symptoms on his body? 
You think that something wrong with the heater can be?
If he didn't develop any visual symptoms on his body at all then something may be with the water. Try to see if the temperature ok. Was you doing full water changes for him while you have him?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

No, Bo Jangles has looked the same for the past month. It started with his refusal to eat and now he's just laying at the bottom. I had upped his water changes when his fins first got stuck together so I was doing about 2 50% a week and 1 full water change a week.

Mo Hawkins go the same. I did get Mo Hawkins to eat another pellet but he still wedged himself in the tiniest space between the tank and the heater. I actually just moved him into my basement where the oil burner is b/c it's warmer down there. My house tends to be rather chilly so with him huddled against the heater, I assume he's cold?

Bo Janges, I just don't know what to do. Last time I was looking at him it was kind of like he was gasping for air with his mouth down at the bottom of the tank. Then he darted around the tank crashing into the sides before laying on the bottom.

I have a glass thermometer in Bo's tank. The kind with the suction cup and it's on the opposite side of the tank from the heater. Mo has no thermometer (I've been meaning to get one but he's in so little water i'm not sure how that would work).


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am so sorry, so worry ... I know you go through a lot with them.
I didn't think that you will have that problem with Janges. Well darting and gasping for air can be due to gill flukes. There is one thread that i was on that girl also has the same problem with her fish. Gasping for air , darting and scratching on objects can be due to flukes. What is the temp in Janges's tank?
Would you able to buy 2 kinds of medications? I will tell you which one if you can. And he still refusing to eat and darting? And also important question do you think he might trying to scratch his head or body on the gravel or anything else?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

He doesn't seem to be scratching on anything. He either lays on the bottom or darts around the tank. I happen to catch him gasping for air but I'm not sure if that was a one-time thing. I'll search for gill flukes and see what I come up with.

What medicines do you recommend?

Also here is a picture of Mo Hawkins this morning:










His color seems to be fading even more and he seems to be reddish on the anal fin.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry i really not sure about Mo, i don't think he is in pain but i know he probobly will never get better. So it is up to you, if you want to do daily care and see it or i would not blame you if you will decide to euthanize him.
Very upset with Janges though. Have no idea why...you was doing all right water changes. 
Well with flukes you not necessarily will see them on the gills. There is one thread i been follow for very long time and the diagnosis is -gill flukes which is correct diagnosis. The usual symptoms are -gasping for air, but i would say on the top of the surface, inflamed gills, darting and scratching.

A few questions i have. He got sick about 3 days ago. Do you think you could put anything in his tank that could be contaminated? I am talking about anything even a live plant? Did you might do a water change and something get in the water? And the last question do you think he might be cold? What is the temperature? I know a lot of people not agree with me , but i do have experience betta at the doctor office live in the cold temp. So even if your temp 70* i would not think that he got sick because of that. 
Also i think you said that you did 100% water change after he got sick? If not i would do it asap.
Medications for flukes API General Cure as to first aid and buy , i think you have to order it Cloat. I might misspelled it so i will be back and tell you correct name of it.
Also i think the temp to treat the flukes better to be about at 78 * or even 82*.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

the medications name '' Clout''. And we can find out where is better to buy it from the girl who is treating her fish. If you want i can try to send her pm?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I posted in my other thread but thought I'd update this one, too. Bo Jangles died overnight. Whatever killed him did so quickly with few signs of trouble.

Mo Hawkins is still hanging in. I've moved him to the basement where it is warmer and he's still eating and doing what he does (bent on the bottom). 

Who would have thought he'd outlive the new guy?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I haven't been online all week, so I'm catching up now.

I'm sorry about Bo Jangles. :-(

As for Mo..... 

The easiest way to medicate/dose in a small tank is to not dose the tank, but dose the container of water itself. Ie: If you use a 1 gallon container for water changes, dose the 1 gal container. Then, use this for the water changes. This will give you a consistent amount of medication each time.

How long did you use Kanaplex on him?


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

Yes, I finally realized that I could/should medicate the gallon container. So as of yesterday that is how I am treating Mo with the Kanaplex again. Prior to this he was probably in the Kanaplex for a month. At this point, I don't know what else to try so I'll see if that helps even a little.

Thanks for checking in *LittleBlue*.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm sorry about Bo Jangles.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I'm sorry about Bo Jangles.


Thank you. :-(


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Did you ever ask Sakura8 about Mo? She may have some advice.


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Did you ever ask Sakura8 about Mo? She may have some advice.


I have not. I will though.

The past few days I would feed Mo at night 2-3 pellets and he would eat them. Then in the morning I'd find faded pellets in the tank. I wondered if I missed cleaning some old ones or if maybe it was poop. Well last night I watched him eat his pellets and I just checked on his and there were indeed 3 pellets in the tank. As I was suctioning out some of his water I watched him regurgitate a pellet. So he's eating but not digesting them, I guess, and then spitting them back out.

Sigh.


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## Lefitte (Oct 2, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your fish.
I haven't read very much of this thread but I noticed my very sick betta of my own is having trouble eating too. He holds his pellets in his mouth and refuses to swallow it. He will, however, go after frozen bloodworms. If you can get some of those, I highly recommend it. My boy has bad finrot as well and so I use a pair of tweezers to carefully hand feed him by pushing the pellets near him or wiggling the bloodworms before him. It definitely seems to be helping! I hope both our boys make it! Mine has a shorter tail from the rot and more pale than the picture I saw.

(I'm also very sorry if I confused the boys)


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## GBS (Oct 25, 2011)

I posted this in his other thread, too, but since this is where the majority of his assistance came from I thought I'd post it here, too.
-----------------------
I come with the sad news that Mo Hawkins has passed. He fought long and hard for 5 months. He was a great fish. One of a kind, I think.

I want to thank you all for your help and advice and encouragement over the past 5 months. I don't think he would have lived as long as he did if not for you guys.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

He fought hard, and you tried to help him in every way that you could..... 

SIP Mo Hawkins.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

He is swimming under the Rainbow Bridge now. He was one happy tough betta, thanks to your love.


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