# And coming soon...fish cruelty at your school!



## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

*sigh* 

I'll be quick because I'm really tired, but they are doing the "ecosystem" thing at my old school still :evil:. They haven't started yet-they use guppies, so I want to stop it before any harm is done. I'm waiting for my brother to tell me when they're doing it and the teacher's name so that I know who and when I need to write a letter to.

I'm NOT looking foward to writing a long and involved letter but I am definitely going to interfere no matter how much I despise writing....at least I'm good at it so I can make a point.

Why oh why are people so stupid, mean, and cruel? You'd think after years of seeing more than 75% of the fish die that they'd learn.....I'm just going to shut up now because I don't want to go off on a tangent but people are just so terrible :evil:!


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## fishyinpa (Dec 25, 2008)

Ugh. Thats just horrible.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

what are they doing to guppies? i've ever heard of the "ecosytem" thing before.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

They put them in the bottom of a soda bottle with another bottle on top that has dirt, a plant (the roots go in the water) and a bug. The fish is supposed to live off the plant roots, the plant lives off the water and fish waste, and the bug...I dunno I think it's supposed to live off the plant and dirt. They never change the water or feed the fish & the experiment lasts weeks. The whole thing is sealed because the plant produces oxygen right? "sarcasm"!

So 
1) there's no oxygen
2)AMMONIA...they fail to teach the nitrogen cycle..duhhhh the plant isn't going to keep the water clean 
3)guppies can't live off plant roots any more than we can live off of lettuce
4)it's WAY too tiny to support life at all

Basically all it proves is that fish will die if exposed to ammonia, starved, and depleted of oxygen


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## Rain Drop (Jul 4, 2009)

Oh dear D:

Im glad the highschool I went to never did experiments with live animals (just organs and dead pigs....) xC
man, people are dumb.


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## rb500 (Jul 12, 2009)

Thats terrible!! If we already know it why do they have to prove it??


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## ltshinthebetta (Jul 16, 2009)

Thats awful! D:


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## AlexXx (Aug 23, 2009)

After i got some beta's my g/f told me she and her entire science class in highschool fought them for a "study".... hers won every fight and she kept i for liek 3 more years till it died... but the rest died. I wanted to cry


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

They don't think of the fish as living beings, they're just "things" that they can experiment on.


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## 5green (Jul 31, 2009)

omg thats so sad


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## veganchick (Jan 10, 2009)

I totally get your problem! Atleast they aren't trying to cram bettas and goldies in there, too! We should come up with something really good together..... Pm me


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

What if each of us wrote a letter to the school?


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## FancifulFish (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re:*

How absolutely terrible. I commend you on your desire to let your feelings be know.



mg:​


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## bettaboo (Aug 31, 2009)

why are teachers and schools such JERKS? 
the only thing its teaching us is how to be cruel to living things


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## ShadowBlackmare (Aug 31, 2009)

Thats just plain mean. My teacher in the 7th grade got two betta fish in separate tanks, and as an experament he allowed the boys to put them into one tank and they killed each other, I was horrified that I started to cry in class. my mom called into the school, they hadnt had a class fish since


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

Oh, wow. That's absolutely horrible!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Well I have less than a week to write the letter. And it needs to be anonymous at first because my mom thinks that if they get ticked off at me they will take it out on my brother because it's actually his 5th grade class that's doing it. If they did that at my HS they could get as mad at me as they want and no one would care but since it's my brother apparently his grades are more important than the fish because I have to be really "careful."

As she was telling me that I can't "offend the teacher's intelligence" all I could think of was- why is this person even a teacher if she's so dumb in the first place? I'll post my letter here when I'm finished with it...I'll probably work on it tomorrow after school because I have a little time before sparring class...not to mention that I can get my anger out by fighting after  Sparring is good for the soul....and not to mention it's useful if you ever need to use self defense  I wonder what my karate friends would think if they new I kept bettas......kinda a funny thought lol but animals are my weakness- I just love them!


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## ShadowBlackmare (Aug 31, 2009)

Its best to right it anonymous and if you right more then one and send them into the school, they may stop it.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest to stop this animal abuse. Its just plain wrong no matter what animal they are using. I should write a letter, send it to you and get you to send it into the school...


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

If they don't stop, try sending one to the local newspaper...


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

That's just terrible. Fish feel too, they hurt too. And they don't need shoved in a soda bottle to live off things that wont keep them alive.


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## AlexXx (Aug 23, 2009)

What exactly is the experiment? like... will this male beta kill this male betta or vice versa.... ? what is being proved to a 7th grade class?!? Ask that too in your letter lol...


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

it's on the first page of this thread


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

dramaqueen said:


> They don't think of the fish as living beings, they're just "things" that they can experiment on.


 Ya just because they only cost $3.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Ok so since my science teacher hates me she'll probably make us do this experiment sooner or later :/ And she'll probably say "Dominnic is a breeder. He'll be happy to donate the fish". But I'm just glad that hasn't happened to me yet.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

MrVampire181 said:


> Ok so since my science teacher hates me she'll probably make us do this experiment sooner or later :/ And she'll probably say "Dominnic is a breeder. He'll be happy to donate the fish". But I'm just glad that hasn't happened to me yet.


Say heck no!! I would flat out refuse if someone said that to me! My fish, I'll decide if I want other people to torture them or not! (Not, of course.)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

MrVampire181 said:


> Ok so since my science teacher hates me she'll probably make us do this experiment sooner or later :/ And she'll probably say "Dominnic is a breeder. He'll be happy to donate the fish". But I'm just glad that hasn't happened to me yet.


Tell her you don't breed any more and you gave all your fish away. lol:lol:


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## ShadowBlackmare (Aug 31, 2009)

CodeRed said:


> Say heck no!! I would flat out refuse if someone said that to me! My fish, I'll decide if I want other people to torture them or not! (Not, of course.)


I agree. Your teacher cant make you donate fish for a awful cause.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'd be like:"No I'm not gonna donate the fish. I'm not even gonna do the experiment. Why don't we try to shove you in a plastic bottle?"


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

MrVampire181 said:


> I'd be like:"No I'm not gonna donate the fish. I'm not even gonna do the experiment. Why don't we try to shove you in a plastic bottle?"


That's the single most amazing thing I've heard today


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

lol that was amazing.


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## ShadowBlackmare (Aug 31, 2009)

MrVampire181 said:


> I'd be like:"No I'm not gonna donate the fish. I'm not even gonna do the experiment. Why don't we try to shove you in a plastic bottle?"


if I was in your class, I would laugh and argee to your statment


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Lol!!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Hehe!! Kim, I think you just need to take Mr. Vamp to your brother's school.  He will shove the teacher in a bottle.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

doggyhog said:


> Hehe!! Kim, I think you just need to take Mr. Vamp to your brother's school.  He will shove the teacher in a bottle.


And it won't just be for the fish...all that homework anger may have some part to do with it


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Lol!! You are so funny!


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

haha


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Thank you thank you, you'll see me on comedy central in 7 years. lol.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I have no doubt about that! lol


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## ShadowBlackmare (Aug 31, 2009)

MrVampire181 said:


> Thank you thank you, you'll see me on comedy central in 7 years. lol.


I will watch it! ^^


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Haha!! Me too!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

No doubt here too.


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## Kenwood (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm glad you are trying to put a stop to the experiment. My 5th grade class had a fish unit... out of the whole group (2 classes or 24-25 each about) only around 5 goldfish died. We were learning about animals, and what environment fish and plants need to live in. At least no fish suffered....


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## Sorineh (Jul 26, 2009)

I actually like the idea itself but your teachers seem kind of retarted. For my AP Biology class, each student is breeding bettas so that we can watch the development of the eggs and I think i'm the only one who has any idea of what they are doing but science is science. Its no different that raising pigs, cats, and squid just to be dissected, we're just trying to gain a better understanding of the world around us.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

... Oh my gosh... poor fish someone needs to end this!!!!!!!!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Sorry I haven't updated in a while but I did write the letter last week and sent it out. So far no news but I will post the letter below if you want to read it. Hearing all these other stories is so depressing :-(. I just hope that I can stop it in my school.

Here's the letter but the teacher's name is edited out for privacy reasons. Read at your own risk, it's a little long .

Dear Mrs. _______,

It has come to my attention that your class will be performing the “mini-ecosystem” experiment once again this year. As a former student at AVS, I remember the experiment well. Please understand that I do NOT mean to insult your integrity in any way, however I also remember nearly all of the fish died during this project. 

As an aquarium hobbyist, I understand (as I am certain you do, too) that the nitrogen cycle is not able to take place in a soda bottle and without an established bacterial colony. Ammonia buildup, combined with insufficient oxygen from the high ammonia levels, kills the fish. Additionally, most small fish such as guppies are tropical fish and need a constant temperature of 78 degrees Fahrenheit to survive for any length of time. As these ecosystems do not include a heater, it would be difficult to maintain that temperature. Given these facts, the experiment doesn’t truly simulate an actual ecosystem. 

I am concerned with the message that this experiment would send to the children in your class, that is, that the fish are expendable and trivial to our pursuit of knowledge. I fear it may promote disrespect for the very ecosystem that the experiment was designed to help students understand. I believe that it would be much more productive to design an experiment that would demonstrate exactly how an ecosystem is established in nature. I suggest a classroom vivarium setup that includes all the elements of the previous experiment, but in a more suitable environment for life. A small aquarium could be set up with half land and half water, the nitrogen cycle monitored as you perform a fishless aquarium cycle on the aquatic portion, and later plants, insects, and fish added once the system is stable. Students could be involved with testing, cleaning, feeding, and keeping a scientific log of the paludarium’s progress. It would be simple, yet fun and rewarding for the students as they learn about how the natural world really works.

I hope no offense has been taken by this letter and I thank you for taking the time to listen to what I have to say. I sincerely hope you will consider changing the guidelines of the project to promote responsible treatment of all the living organisms that make up our own natural ecosystem which we must conserve.


This is a very helpful link on the “fishless aquarium cycle.”
What is Fishless Cycling?


I was going to put the link to the fishless cycling topic here....but then I realized I didn't want her on here finding this thread!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Very nice letter, Kim.


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## WildBlue (Sep 5, 2009)

Your letter was very well written. Classy and non-offensive. I only hope they take this to heart.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Thank you  I'll update when I get news...time to grill my brother when he gets home.


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## iheartmyfishies (Sep 14, 2009)

Just got here. Wow. That's so mean to the innocent fish involved. D; I hope she takes this letter seriously. Good luck!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

What a great letter!!!! I hope it works!!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I have some bad news. Apparently the teacher did get the letter and she was affected by it, but not in the way that I'd hoped for. My brother said that she gave the entire class a lecture (after asking if any of them had fishtanks at home, probably to try and figure out where the letter came from) about how the experiment is perfectly humane and how the fish "have everything they need." Hmmm....oh, now I see why they're floating belly up...rrrrright :-?.

Anyway, they are still going through with the experiment and I'm at a loss of what to do. My parents are afraid that she will find out who it is and take it out on my brother for the rest of the year so I can't do anything at all to give it away. I could write another letter, but then she would know that it is definitely someone's sibling and since I graduated top in my class she probably already knows my writing style so it'd be pretty easy to piece that one together. The worst thing is that I can't even take in the sick ones because of the same reasons :-(.

Any suggestions are welcome. Why do people have to be such #$%^%&%! You can insert any word that you want there because I have plently that I'd love to say, but for the sake of keeping this forum clean I'll hold back the urge :evil:.


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## iheartmyfishies (Sep 14, 2009)

She just doesn't understand. Couldn't that be considered animal cruelty?


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## Elena (Aug 1, 2009)

This is terrible! If my daughter has to do this project when she goes to school they will hear from me and a hefty group of angry parents.


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## iheartmyfishies (Sep 14, 2009)

Yes. Couldn't your parents (and a bunch of other parents as well) just make a complaint concerning the well being of those fish? Or opt out their children?


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## sumsum (Aug 24, 2009)

Maby you could send an anonymous printout of what Betta fish need to live to the teacher.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I really don't think the teacher cares what bettas need. Otherwise she wouldn't be doing this experiment.


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## TigerLily (Sep 17, 2009)

The teacher may not care, but what about her superiors? Perhaps there is a way you could bring this information to someone at the school who is above her and might step in on your behalf. 

This "lesson" is certainly not one I would want any of my relatives taking part in.


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## Labeledsk8r (Sep 12, 2009)

sadly i have hear dof this happening alot. you had a very good letter but frankly im not shocked at all about the teachers responce. alot of teachers have the feeling they know everything and when in question resort to enforceing there belifes. only thing i really see u could do now as a option without geting your bro involved (if he allready hasnt given you away with talk of large amounts of fish at home) would be to write a second letter this time useing a penship name apoligizeing for notuseing your name and seeming interested in if she thought your veiws were usefull. since you put you were once a student you should try to expand yourself out of her recent students. meaning looking to see just how long she has been teaching for and how many years she has been doing the eco project thing, mayby you can pass yourself off as an older classperson to help take the heat off your bro. id also recomend useing email instead of a true letter, most teachers have emails and this should be nothing new to them, i would also recomend makeing a fake acount just again so nothing can be led back to you (yahoo/gmail/msn all free) 

that was one of the only ways i could see getting anything else done without getting the heat on your little bro seems kinda twisted but if she goes to the level of trying to punish a student due to telling there family there doing a project they might not agree with.. wel thats just rong

goodluck and i hope something good comes outa all this


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## Torbs (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm so glad my school didn't do that. We did do a behavioural experiment on guppies (and zebra fish (I think that's what they're called?) and 1 really small catfish), but they were all in a really large filtered tank with a bubbler and all we did was choose one and plot where it was once every half minute for a while and we did this a few times and looked to see if there was a behavioural pattern. We also had an awesome time watching their babies grow up! We had a few guppies become pregnant and have baby guppies, they were so cute!


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## sumsum (Aug 24, 2009)

Ya I think an e-mail would be better if it's a new acount that you only use for emailing the teacher. Hope the fishes make it.=...(


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## Felessan (Jun 24, 2010)

My class did this but with minnows we fed them fish flakes and they ate the roots we changed the water every 2 days and it was in fish tanks (the plant top had holes in the bottom) and the roots were not covering the entire surface (only about 1 5th of it) this is NOT animal cruelty unlike the normal way! (my teacher valued the life of every living thing and new proper fish care!)


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## Felessan (Jun 24, 2010)

Ps. none of the fish died one snail did (but they have short life spans) but that is it.


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