# First 2.5-5 gal tank!



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Ok so I am striving to buy a good 5 gal tank but if money makes things difficult, I may go for a 2.5 gal. I want some movement and life in my tanks as I am not a huge fan of shrimp and snails. 
I was thinking maybe a group of 4-5 rasbora brigittaes for my potential 5 gal. Is that ok? What are some special requirements for them (food, plants, etc.?) 
If I get a 2.5 gal, I was thinking maybe an ADF and/or a lace catfish/upside down catfish with my little guy. 
Any colorful and fun ideas will be greatly appreciated! I like to go big and have color in my tank, color and movement  please don't suggest shrimp or snails, I'm just not a fan of them. I just want fish lol 
Thanks for reading this all help is appreciated!


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IMO/E-neither the 2.5gal or the 5gal can support the needs of other species of fish along with the Betta. IMO/E-you are limited to shrimp and/or snails.

When stocking-you need to base it on-Adult size of the fish-not current size, meet the social needs, water chemistry/temp needs, swimming needs..etc.....

IMO it is important to meet the needs of the fish-Understanding that a stressed fish can be a sick fish-Often that single stressed fish is the cause of a total crash of the system.

IMO-you shouldn't under estimate proper stocking.....

If you want a community tank-get a bigger tank-the bigger the better-I would recommend starting with a 20gal..While it is in the process of cycling..research the fish you want and would like to keep.

Aquarium keeping is a lot of fun-but it is also a lot of work in the beginning-Once the tank is established it doesn't need that much care.


----------



## twolovers101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Well in a 2.5 tank mates for a betta are gonna be a no. In fact, anything other than a betta in that small of a tank I would advise against. ADFs need at least 3 gallons to themselves... Also, catfish produce a lot of waste and generally get to be pretty big, so I honestly wouldn't have any type of cat in anything smaller than a 20g

I don't know much about the rasboras, but this link might help *clicky!*

Before you get any fish however, you need to cycle the tank 
I suggest you take a look at these threads:
GUIDE: Tank Cycling/Nitrogen Cycle [with pictures]
A Basic Guide to Freshwater Fish Stocking
A Beginner's Guide to the Freshwater Aquarium Cycle


----------



## Crowntails (Feb 12, 2013)

I wouldn't put anything else in with your betta if you go with the 2.5 gallon. I use to have a school of 6 Pygmy Corys with my old betta in a 5.5 gallon and they were was no problem between the two. Mind you though, my betta was very docile.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If you have the space, a 10 gallon kit from Wal-Mart is cheaper than either a five or a 2.5. Allows you more tank mate options and has the added benefit of being able to be divided for a second Betta.

If you make an acrylic divider with .25" holes, the tank mates can still use the whole tank while the Bettas remain contained.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Thanks for all the help guys! Somewhere I read that I could put ADFs in 2.5 with betas, oh well. I appreciate this a lot!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> If you have the space, a 10 gallon kit from Wal-Mart is cheaper than either a five or a 2.5. Allows you more tank mate options and has the added benefit of being able to be divided for a second Betta.
> 
> If you make an acrylic divider with .25" holes, the tank mates can still use the whole tank while the Bettas remain contained.


Oh really? I have to check that out....


----------



## summnd (Oct 22, 2013)

I know at my local Petco a 10 gallon tank is $1 cheaper than a 2.5 gallon tank, so check your local pet stores and Walmart or the like on prices. The bigger, the better when trying to house a community. In a 1.5 gallon, I would not do more than ONE fish or maybe 5 of a small community fish, if there was no Betta as well. In a 5 gallon I would possibly do a small school with a Betta but not likely.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Yeah I found a super cheap (it has good reviews though) 10 gal tank in pets art that's just calling my name! What nice and colorful things can fit there?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Male Endlers or Pygmy or Hasbrosus Cories are fun. The male Endlers are more colorful. You'll need live plants. I'd recommend Anubias, Cabomba and Narrow Leaf Anacharis.

Before buying plants from PetSmart, make sure they're truly aquatic. Many they sell are not. There are some good online sources and Peachii has nice packages in the Classifieds.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Male Endlers or Pygmy or Hasbrosus Cories are fun. The male Endlers are more colorful. You'll need live plants. I'd recommend Anubias, Cabomba and Narrow Leaf Anacharis.
> 
> Before buying plants from PetSmart, make sure they're truly aquatic. Many they sell are not. There are some good online sources and Peachii has nice packages in the Classifieds.


I know this is a weird question but can you mix cardinal tetras, brigit rasboras, and endlers to make one small school or does it have to be either one species or the other? Would my betta mind the mini-school?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Male Endlers or Pygmy or Hasbrosus Cories are fun. The male Endlers are more colorful. You'll need live plants. I'd recommend Anubias, Cabomba and Narrow Leaf Anacharis.
> 
> Before buying plants from PetSmart, make sure they're truly aquatic. Many they sell are not. There are some good online sources and Peachii has nice packages in the Classifieds.


I'm looking into endlers, and I'm really liking them! I have no experience with live plants though  are big artificial plants ok? How many endlers can I stick comfortably with the betta? Also, can they share my betta's food (hikari bio gold pellets) or do they eat something different?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

IMO, live plants are important. The plants Peachii as for sale are easy-to-keep ones. I'm sure if you sent a PM, she'd be glad to put together whatever you need.

You could have 10+ Endlers in your tank. I feed mine Hikari Fancy Guppy food.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=298025


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> IMO, live plants are important. The plants Peachii as for sale are easy-to-keep ones. I'm sure if you sent a PM, she'd be glad to put together whatever you need.
> 
> You could have 10+ Endlers in your tank. I feed mine Hikari Fancy Guppy food.
> 
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=298025


Where can I buy endlers??? I looked at petco and petsmart's website and they don't sell them (at least that's what they show...) do rasboras fair well with endlers? (They look similar...) 

I'm sorry for all the questions I just don't want to make any mistakes!!


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Fish will prefer having more of their own species to being mixed in with a bunch of others. Personally, I think one big school is more visually stunning than an overwhelming bunch of different species. 

Live plants are honestly very easy. If you are nervous, I'd suggest going for a mix of fake plants (look into FinSafe - realistic and beautiful!) and low maintenance real ones. Java fern, java moss, anubias, elodea...they are all easy to maintain.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

I guess you may be right! (Now I need to choose :/ ) 
As for the plants go, maybe I will get like live and the rest fake to see how I can take care of them, I just don't wanna stress myself out haha


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Ok so I have decided on 1 betta male w/ 6-7 neon tetras/cardinal tetras/boraras brigittae/endlers (I have to see the availability in my LFS and each of their temperament to choose) w/ 2-3 otos 
I will have mostly fake plants and 2 live ones 

Is this fine?


----------



## Crowntails (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd go with 1 Betta and 10 Boraras Brigittae and no otos.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Crowntails said:


> I'd go with 1 Betta and 10 Boraras Brigittae and no otos.


Don't I need the otos for eating the algae?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You never *need* algae-eating fish. Remember that each fish has its own bioload, so they increase the amount you need to clean. 

Worth noting: you've selected a bunch of fish that all crome from very different water. Make sure you know your pH and water hardness before making a decision - some fish (like tetras, rasboras and otos) need soft, acidic water, whereas others (live Endlers) do much better in hard, alkaline water.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 Bombalurina on knowing a fish's needs. I wanted Neons but knowing they like soft water I opted out as mine is hard. The Endlers love it.

Knowing parameters helps make the decision on which fish will thrive and not just survive.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Guys just wanted to say, this is very helpful!!

Now, I went to two of my LFS and none carried endlers or rasboras  I did see some super cute albino Corys though but my search for rasboras and endlers carries on!

I have to check out all the specific parameters for the fish, all of you were right, I didn't even think of that! 

Just in case I don't find any rasboras or endlers, are cardinal tetras fine? 

On a side note, I just bought the ten gallon tank!! Can I start cycling it and continually add plants and decor while I cycle it or will it disturb the process?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I'd say cardinals are too active for a ten gallon - they are larger than neons and really suit 20 gals or larger. 

Go nuts on adding decor during the cycle. It gives the beneficial bacteria more surface area to colonise. 

Live plants (enough of them, anyway) will change the nature of the cycle somewhat. They certainly don't harm it, but it can be confusing seeing the effect on your various readings. It's worth talking to OldFishLady, who is pretty much *the* expert on the silent cycle (that is, the cycle that happens in a planted tank).


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Good luck! I just got a 10 gallon recently, and I now have some three-lined (false julii, although they are often mislabeled as Julii) cories in with my betta. Pip flares at other bettas nearby, but he's awesome with the cories- he swims with them and everything. Only problem is he tries to nibble on their food. I'm hoping he doesn't get SBD, but so far, so good! I'm glad you got the 10 gallon- they really are cheaper than many of the smaller tanks, and you can fit a lot more. I also got some anacharis for mine, which seems to be doing well and grows rapidly with absolutely no effort on my end. It's cheap, too; I got 3 bunches of it at my local fish store for $7.99. 

Just a note on fake plants if you do some of those- they need to be silk. Most plants you can buy at pet stores are plastic, and it's easy for a betta to rip his fins on it. The rule of thumb is that any item that could snag a nylon is dangerous in a betta tank, as those long fins are super fragile. So only live or silk plants. Good luck in your fishy endeavor!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> I'd say cardinals are too active for a ten gallon - they are larger than neons and really suit 20 gals or larger.
> 
> Go nuts on adding decor during the cycle. It gives the beneficial bacteria more surface area to colonise.
> 
> Live plants (enough of them, anyway) will change the nature of the cycle somewhat. They certainly don't harm it, but it can be confusing seeing the effect on your various readings. It's worth talking to OldFishLady, who is pretty much *the* expert on the silent cycle (that is, the cycle that happens in a planted tank).


Alright! I will look into neons then (that is if I don't find the rasboras or endlers) thank you so much! 

The cycle will be around 3 weeks then right? I heard that if I just put fish food in the tank (without the fish obviously) it will help the cycle speed up, is this true?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Good luck! I just got a 10 gallon recently, and I now have some three-lined (false julii, although they are often mislabeled as Julii) cories in with my betta. Pip flares at other bettas nearby, but he's awesome with the cories- he swims with them and everything. Only problem is he tries to nibble on their food. I'm hoping he doesn't get SBD, but so far, so good! I'm glad you got the 10 gallon- they really are cheaper than many of the smaller tanks, and you can fit a lot more. I also got some anacharis for mine, which seems to be doing well and grows rapidly with absolutely no effort on my end. It's cheap, too; I got 3 bunches of it at my local fish store for $7.99.
> 
> Just a note on fake plants if you do some of those- they need to be silk. Most plants you can buy at pet stores are plastic, and it's easy for a betta to rip his fins on it. The rule of thumb is that any item that could snag a nylon is dangerous in a betta tank, as those long fins are super fragile. So only live or silk plants. Good luck in your fishy endeavor!


Thank you so much! Yeah I am looking into some really colorful mid-sized silk plants so I can have the 2 real ones in the back that will hopefully be huge as time will go by


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Okay, cool! I just wanted to make sure you knew. I didn't at first, and bought a plastic plant that was labeled for bettas. Within 5 minutes, my female betta had ripped her short little fin in 2 places! That came out in a hurry! ;-) 

By the way, Flare is beautiful. I am jealous.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Okay, cool! I just wanted to make sure you knew. I didn't at first, and bought a plastic plant that was labeled for bettas. Within 5 minutes, my female betta had ripped her short little fin in 2 places! That came out in a hurry! ;-)
> 
> By the way, Flare is beautiful. I am jealous.


Wow that's horrible  I hope that never happens to me 

Btw I bought this heater a long time ago when I thought I was getting a 5 gallon tank (it's a 25 w heater) would it work for this tank? I don't want to spend more money.... :\

Lol thanks XD I bet your fish is beautiful as well


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Oh, he is beautiful! You should also be jealous! I need to set my profile picture to show him off. And by him, I mean the one I'm going to breed. I have others. I actually don't want to count them. haha Hello, my name is Holly, and I'm addicted to bettas...

Thankfully, the tears to her fins were clean, and they healed very quickly. Still, lesson learned about plastic plants and decor with sharp edges! I've found that a lot of decor has sharp edges on the insides of holes that need to be sanded down to make it betta-safe.

I think your heater should work. I'm pretty sure mine is a 25 watt, and it works great. Do you have a thermometer? They're pretty cheap. Just use a floating one instead of the strips that stick to the outside. Inside-aquarium thermometers are much more accurate. It shouldn't be more than $2. My Petsmart has some on clearance for $1. That way you can monitor your temp and make sure it's okay.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Oh, he is beautiful! You should also be jealous! I need to set my profile picture to show him off. And by him, I mean the one I'm going to breed. I have others. I actually don't want to count them. haha Hello, my name is Holly, and I'm addicted to bettas...
> 
> Thankfully, the tears to her fins were clean, and they healed very quickly. Still, lesson learned about plastic plants and decor with sharp edges! I've found that a lot of decor has sharp edges on the insides of holes that need to be sanded down to make it betta-safe.
> 
> I think your heater should work. I'm pretty sure mine is a 25 watt, and it works great. Do you have a thermometer? They're pretty cheap. Just use a floating one instead of the strips that stick to the outside. Inside-aquarium thermometers are much more accurate. It shouldn't be more than $2. My Petsmart has some on clearance for $1. That way you can monitor your temp and make sure it's okay.


Ok thank you! You are so kind :3 I have to buy one now lol


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

No, the 25w is not big enough. It will have to work too hard to heat the water, and you risk it burning out. Get at least a 50w, though I would go higher. 

As for the cycle - fish food isn't what speeds it up, it's what creates the cycle. You need something in there to create ammonia - if you're doing that method, that's what the fish food does.


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Cheaper than another heater! ;-) It is nice to know the temp, though. Bettas like the water at 78*, but it can be really hard to maintain that without knowing the temp. And I've heard of people with heaters that fry a betta overnight. So I like to know and be able to set my heater to the appropriate temp and adjust it as needed!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Oh, really? I have a 25 watt that's working fine in my tank right now, but it hasn't been going for too long. Maybe it's working overtime without my knowing it and it's going to burn out soon. Dang. :-/


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Okay, I'm looking at heaters on amazon.com right now, and a 50 watt isn't too expensive. B3TT45, are you able to return your heater?


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

This one's adjustable, cheap, and has pretty decent reviews... http://www.amazon.com/Aquatop-Aquar...32670&sr=8-6&keywords=50+watt+aquarium+heater


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Okay, I'm looking at heaters on amazon.com right now, and a 50 watt isn't too expensive. B3TT45, are you able to return your heater?


I bought it a few weeks ago on amazon though so I doubt it


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> No, the 25w is not big enough. It will have to work too hard to heat the water, and you risk it burning out. Get at least a 50w, though I would go higher.
> 
> As for the cycle - fish food isn't what speeds it up, it's what creates the cycle. You need something in there to create ammonia - if you're doing that method, that's what the fish food does.


Even with the light on all the time except night? 

What else creates ammonia (besides a fish)?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> This one's adjustable, cheap, and has pretty decent reviews... http://www.amazon.com/Aquatop-Aquar...32670&sr=8-6&keywords=50+watt+aquarium+heater


That's even cheaper than my 25 w one o.o


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Maybe you could post it in the classifieds section on this board? Someone with a smaller tank might want it. Here's the heater I have in a 50 watt version for less than $9. It's also adjustable. I like my heaters a lot. I have 4 of them in different tanks, and so far no problems with them. http://www.amazon.com/Elite-6-Inch-...2670&sr=8-11&keywords=50+watt+aquarium+heater


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Maybe you could post it in the classifieds section on this board? Someone with a smaller tank might want it. Here's the heater I have in a 50 watt version for less than $9. It's also adjustable. I like my heaters a lot. I have 4 of them in different tanks, and so far no problems with them. http://www.amazon.com/Elite-6-Inch-...2670&sr=8-11&keywords=50+watt+aquarium+heater


I'm not liking those reviews....


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

B3TT45 said:


> Even with the light on all the time except night?


Yes. The last thing you want to do is rely on the light for extra heat - after all, when you turn it off at night, the temperature would drop, and fluctuating temperatures are worse than a constant one that is slightly too hot or too cold. A good light shouldn't be heating up your water too much, for that exact reason.
I would use a 25w for under 5 gallons, 50w for 5-10g, 75w for 10-15 and 100w for 15-20. I believe my 23 gallon has a 150 or 200w in there. You want 5 watts per gallon as a minimum. It's not worth risking your fish to rely on a heater that can't cut it. 



B3TT45 said:


> What else creates ammonia (besides a fish)?


Fish food, fish poop, dead fish or shrimp, pure ammonia.


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Yeah, I don't know. Mine are working great so far, but some people have had worse experiences. And every heater has people saying that it killed their fish. That's legit many times. I always plug in the heater without fish in the tank just in case- I've heard people say that heaters have electrocuted their fish. And there are times when the temp skyrockets overnight or while someone is at work. But checking your thermometer frequently, especially while it's calibrating, can make all the difference, too. I guess I'd go with the one that has the best reviews. At the end of the day, I'd rather spend an extra $10 on a heater than lose a beloved fish because of a heater malfunction.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Hmmm what if I turn up the temp a bit higher than it should be (80-82?) would that help keep it at the 78 or it just won't work?


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Just to further complicate things, some tap water has ammonia in it, too. It's a good idea to test your tap water just so you know what you're dealing with. I use Prime as my water conditioner- it takes care of chlorine, chloramines, and ammonia, and it's one of the only conditioners that does ammonia. And live plants also help with ammonia. Between my Prime and my plants, I've never had my tank test positive for ammonia. Of course, nothing replaces frequent water changes.


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

B3TT45 said:


> Hmmm what if I turn up the temp a bit higher than it should be (80-82?) would that help keep it at the 78 or it just won't work?


You mean the temp in your house/apartment? It probably wouldn't work, and it would end up costing more in the long run for heating bills than just buying a fish heater, I would think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> You mean the temp in your house/apartment? It probably wouldn't work, and it would end up costing more in the long run for heating bills than just buying a fish heater, I would think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.


No I meant the heater lol


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Oh, okay. I was like, no, that's probably not a great idea... lol You never know!

I don't know. Bombalurina would have more info on that. I haven't had mine running very long in the 10 gallon, so it might burn out soon. My 14 gallon, which has been running longer, has a bigger heater...


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Oh, okay. I was like, no, that's probably not a great idea... lol You never know!
> 
> I don't know. Bombalurina would have more info on that. I haven't had mine running very long in the 10 gallon, so it might burn out soon. My 14 gallon, which has been running longer, has a bigger heater...


This is the first time I've ever had a big tank so I just want to make things perfect! I haven't yet started the cycle though so I can't tell whether the jester will work or not. I can just leave it running and when it burns out, I will by the other one for $9


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Sounds good! Might as well start the cycle now, so you can get your fishy in there sooner! :-D Do you have a test kit? This one is great, and in the long run probably costs the least. There's a lot more tests in there than in the kits with strips, and they're more accurate. You'll want to be testing your water as it cycles so you know when it's finished. http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwate...r=1-1&keywords=api+freshwater+master+test+kit


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Sounds good! Might as well start the cycle now, so you can get your fishy in there sooner! :-D Do you have a test kit? This one is great, and in the long run probably costs the least. There's a lot more tests in there than in the kits with strips, and they're more accurate. You'll want to be testing your water as it cycles so you know when it's finished. http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwate...r=1-1&keywords=api+freshwater+master+test+kit


I want to get one of those eventually but right now I'm spending quite a bit of money with these tank things so I plan on getting my water tested once a week at my LFS, I drive by it a lot so it's like like I'm wasting gas haha


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Turning it up will increase the temperature, but the problem is, you still have a piece of equipment desperately trying to heat a tank far bigger than it is supposed to - and if it comes with a built-in thermostat, it will think you want it to heat the tank to whatever temperature you set it to, and bust a gut trying to do that. It's not going to work. Honestly, just buy the bigger heater and save the 25w one for a hospital tank. Having a spare heater NEVER hurts.


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Oh yeah, I forgot that LFS often do free testing. That's a great idea!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Turning it up will increase the temperature, but the problem is, you still have a piece of equipment desperately trying to heat a tank far bigger than it is supposed to - and if it comes with a built-in thermostat, it will think you want it to heat the tank to whatever temperature you set it to, and bust a gut trying to do that. It's not going to work. Honestly, just buy the bigger heater and save the 25w one for a hospital tank. Having a spare heater NEVER hurts.


In my experience, spare heaters are bad... When I have a spare heater, it's a lot easier to convince myself to buy one more betta! :lol: In all seriousness, though, it's true- spare heaters are a good idea. Especially because, if one goes out, you don't want to have to wait to get one in the mail, or have to spend more than necessary at a pet store to buy one immediately. At this time of year (at least where I live), I couldn't go without a heater even in the 2 days it would take for delivery from Amazon Prime.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Turning it up will increase the temperature, but the problem is, you still have a piece of equipment desperately trying to heat a tank far bigger than it is supposed to - and if it comes with a built-in thermostat, it will think you want it to heat the tank to whatever temperature you set it to, and bust a gut trying to do that. It's not going to work. Honestly, just buy the bigger heater and save the 25w one for a hospital tank. Having a spare heater NEVER hurts.


Hmm alright I will keep that in mind (maybe when it busts I will get the other one lol) I just want to keep the costs down :/


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

B3TT45 said:


> Can I start cycling it and continually add plants and decor while I cycle it or will it disturb the process?


Really need an answer to this because I'm starting to set up everything :-?


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Sorry- I didn't see that question. As far as I know, you should be fine adding decor later. I don't see why it would be a problem. Someone else chime in if I'm wrong...


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Hmmmm


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I answered back on page 3.



Bombalurina said:


> Go nuts on adding decor during the cycle. It gives the beneficial bacteria more surface area to colonise.
> 
> Live plants (enough of them, anyway) will change the nature of the cycle somewhat. They certainly don't harm it, but it can be confusing seeing the effect on your various readings. It's worth talking to OldFishLady, who is pretty much *the* expert on the silent cycle (that is, the cycle that happens in a planted tank).


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

I meant can I just add like 3 decorations, fill up the tank water and start the heater and filter and add more later?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Yep, you can add them in whenever.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Yep, you can add them in whenever.


I'm using decor from a fish I used to have that died of dropsy. There shouldn't be any problem correct?

Once again sorry for all my questions and I am very grateful for all the help! ^.^'


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

What I have right now.... Filter is up and running idk if it's too strong or what not.... There's a lot of bubbles is that normal?

Btw after 3 weeks I add the schooling fish first and not the betta correct?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I would personally clean all the decor, and anything it has touched, in a bleach/water solution, before adding it to the tank. You don't want to risk carrying over diseases.

Bubbles are fine.

3 weeks is a bit arbitrary. The tank may or may not be cycled by that time. You need to wait until you have the readings showing that it is cycled. 

Yes, do add the schooling fish first. 

Before you add any fish, you're going to need to bulk out the decor a lot more. Your planned fish are going to feel quite stressed with all that open space. Make sure it covers all levels of the tank (i.e. have some tall plants, some medium and some low).


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> I would personally clean all the decor, and anything it has touched, in a bleach/water solution, before adding it to the tank. You don't want to risk carrying over diseases.
> 
> Bubbles are fine.
> 
> ...


Well I left the decor out for about a week in the sun and just washed it out with cold water. 

Do I add all of the schooling fish or slowly add a few of them over the course of a few days?

Yeah lol that's why I kept asking if I could add more plants later XD


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

That might be enough for the decor, but I wouldn't take the chance. I'd blast it with bleach anyway. 

If your tank is properly cycled it should be fine to add them all at once - the filter and a water change will deal with the subsequent ammonia spike.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> That might be enough for the decor, but I wouldn't take the chance. I'd blast it with bleach anyway.
> 
> If your tank is properly cycled it should be fine to add them all at once - the filter and a water change will deal with the subsequent ammonia spike.


Alright now just ONE last set of questions (damn I ask too many XD and I can't give any promises that this is the last lol) do I change the water when I cycle? Also, how often should I add the fish food in the cycling tank?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Since there are no fish in the tank during your cycle, don't bother changing the water unless you add too much fish food. 

You want to add enough fish food to get about 4ppm of ammonia (this is why a test kit is important - and it's worth getting a high quality liquid API kit, not a cruddy strip test).

Ask as many questions as you like - you can't ever know too much!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Since there are no fish in the tank during your cycle, don't bother changing the water unless you add too much fish food.
> 
> You want to add enough fish food to get about 4ppm of ammonia (this is why a test kit is important - and it's worth getting a high quality liquid API kit, not a cruddy strip test).
> 
> Ask as many questions as you like - you can't ever know too much!


Update: I added 8 pellets in the water an hour ago and I just tested the water temp. Idk whether to trust this thermometer or not because it says 80 degrees and the water feels pretty cool to the touch.

How long should I quarantine the fish when I get it in the future and how do I quarantine them? (I really hope that in 3 weeks that betta from pet smart will still be there in all it's glory!)


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Trust the thermometer more than your skin. Human skin is a pretty rubbish judge of temperature. 

This is just my thinking, and other people will disagree with me, but if there are no other fish in the tank, don't bother QTing the neons. Just add them. You then need to QT the betta when you get him, for about two weeks. 

I honestly would not add fish until you have a large enough heater. Use your 25w one for a QT tank. Safer for all concerned.


----------



## anniefeng93 (Nov 11, 2013)

So have you decided on getting the neons? I am setting up a 5 gallon now (I can't go for a bigger one, I live in college). 

With one betta, would you say 7 neons are okay? I heard they nip at the tails of the betta a lot though.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Annie, if you are thinking of neons for your tank, I'd suggest rethinking. They need a minimum of 10 gallons, or at least more horizontal swimming space, than a 5 gallon can provide. 

As for nippyness, it is a risk. Some neons do it, others don't seem to. Some bettas attack neons; others don't. It's one of those combinations that you just don't know will work unless you try it.


----------



## anniefeng93 (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. There's a video on youtube of 7 neons and a betta in a 5 gallon tank with 4 ghost shrimps. They looked very happy! 

So do you have any specific recommendations for 5 gallon?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Just a betta and inverts. A 5 gallon will struggle to cope with the bioload of more than that, and simply doesn't provide the swimming space that less sedentary species need. 

I'd be extremely wary of youtube as a guide. There are all kinds of terrible ideas on there. I'd also be wary of judging by whether fish look "happy". Pretty much any fish looks "happy" in the sense that it isn't riddled with disease, up until the less-than-ideal conditions take their toll. 

So, make your 5 gallon into a betta and shrimp paradise!  It's very fun to watch, and looks really beautiful.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Trust the thermometer more than your skin. Human skin is a pretty rubbish judge of temperature.
> 
> This is just my thinking, and other people will disagree with me, but if there are no other fish in the tank, don't bother QTing the neons. Just add them. You then need to QT the betta when you get him, for about two weeks.
> 
> I honestly would not add fish until you have a large enough heater. Use your 25w one for a QT tank. Safer for all concerned.


Yeah neons are looking closer and closer to me because I already went to my third LFS (well it isn't that local...) and no rasboras, no endlers. A group of ten would be unlikely to nip the fins right? 

Well the visit didn't go in vain as I have bought some gorgeous new decor! The plants are very pretty and are around mid-level. All I need is one tall silk plant and the live one and some nice plant less decor and I will be set! (Hopefully)


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

anniefeng93 said:


> So have you decided on getting the neons? I am setting up a 5 gallon now (I can't go for a bigger one, I live in college).
> 
> With one betta, would you say 7 neons are okay? I heard they nip at the tails of the betta a lot though.


Yeah neons are not good for a five gallon... Shrimp and/or snails or one ADF (debatably) it would still look really nice though!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

anniefeng93 said:


> Thanks for the reply. There's a video on youtube of 7 neons and a betta in a 5 gallon tank with 4 ghost shrimps. They looked very happy!
> 
> So do you have any specific recommendations for 5 gallon?


Yikes! Someone on youtube got ambitious! I grew up with neons, although I don't remember too much about them. But yeah, I think they were pretty fast, and they swim in straight lines (unlike bettas), and of course you need several of them, so I think neons are a bad idea in a 5 gallon. I just had a betta by himself in a 5 gallon (although he was recently upgraded to a 10 gallon with a few more fish), and he really seemed to do great by himself. His fins were always wide open, and he enjoyed exploring the tank by himself. I agree with what's already been said- a betta and maybe some shrimp or snails would be best in a 5 gallon.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Update: I think all I'm missing is one tall plant in the left corner and that's it. I'm thinking about dropping the live one because it would fill the tank up too much. Any thoughts? I'm open to ideas!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Looks lovely! :-D A nice tall plant for your corner could be anacharis- it's super easy to grow, is very thin so it doesn't take up much space, and it's cheap. Also, no roots (they can also float on the top) so no need for extra fertilizers or anything in the tank. Just drop it in there, cover the bottom with some gravel so it stays put. Just an idea. ;-) And I think it's actually cheaper than a tall silk plant would be. Significantly cheaper, actually... In any case, I love the way it looks. You should have some very happy fishies!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Looks lovely! :-D A nice tall plant for your corner could be anacharis- it's super easy to grow, is very thin so it doesn't take up much space, and it's cheap. Also, no roots (they can also float on the top) so no need for extra fertilizers or anything in the tank. Just drop it in there, cover the bottom with some gravel so it stays put. Just an idea. ;-) And I think it's actually cheaper than a tall silk plant would be. Significantly cheaper, actually... In any case, I love the way it looks. You should have some very happy fishies!


Thanks! I will look into it! All the plants I've seen can grow so big or the leaves are too big so I was doubtful but this cute plant looks like it could work! Although, if I put it next to the filter, it won't get sucked in?
Btw how do I know if my filter is too strong?


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

I'm not sure about the filter... There are different ways that you can "baffle" a filter to protect your betta. I believe using a nylon is one way. It lets the filter keep running, but keeps your betta's tail from getting sucked in. That would also keep the plant from getting sucked in. I think, especially if the bottom of the plant is buried in gravel, if the filter sucks it up, the filter is too strong! 

Anacharis does grow quickly, but it's something that you just cut when it grows too big, and it makes 2 plants! No matter what, it stays skinny; it just gets longer when it grows. You can then tie them into a bunch with a rubberband, put the new plant(s) elsewhere in the tank, let them float, or sell or give them to a LFS or post them on the classifieds here. There's always people looking for plants!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

And live plants are so good for the biofilter. Just saying... ;-)


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

B3TT45 said:


> A group of ten would be unlikely to nip the fins right?


Yes, but you risk overcrowding the betta. I'd cap it at 8. Still enough to give them the feel of a school, but not so many that they are always in the betta's face. 



B3TT45 said:


> Update: I think all I'm missing is one tall plant in the left corner and that's it. I'm thinking about dropping the live one because it would fill the tank up too much. Any thoughts? I'm open to ideas!


You cannot have too many plants! I think it looks gorgeous, but I would still add heaps more. I'll attach a photo of how I used to have my 16 gallon - that was heavily planted. I would still consider yours lightly decorated. 



B3TT45 said:


> Thanks! I will look into it! All the plants I've seen can grow so big or the leaves are too big so I was doubtful but this cute plant looks like it could work! Although, if I put it next to the filter, it won't get sucked in?
> Btw how do I know if my filter is too strong?


As Hollyk suggested, anacharis is good. Hornwort, wisteria, lacefern, anubias, java fern, java moss, rotala, ludwigia - these would all do just fine in your tank. It's just a matter of snipping them when they get too big. 



hollyk said:


> I'm not sure about the filter... There are different ways that you can "baffle" a filter to protect your betta. I believe using a nylon is one way. It lets the filter keep running, but keeps your betta's tail from getting sucked in. That would also keep the plant from getting sucked in. I think, especially if the bottom of the plant is buried in gravel, if the filter sucks it up, the filter is too strong!
> 
> Anacharis does grow quickly, but it's something that you just cut when it grows too big, and it makes 2 plants! No matter what, it stays skinny; it just gets longer when it grows. You can then tie them into a bunch with a rubberband, put the new plant(s) elsewhere in the tank, let them float, or sell or give them to a LFS or post them on the classifieds here. There's always people looking for plants!


Giving extra plants to your LFS is great - because I was always giving my LFS my extra plants, the owner gave me excellent deals on anything else I wanted. I got a beautiful white HM listed as $33 for $11.50 (yes, fish are expensive here). This works better with small, locally owned places, of course. 
As for the filter, I would place a silk plant in front of it instead and put the live plant somewhere else. However, I've not had a problem with my filter sucking plants in - it would depend on the filter, I suppose.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> And live plants are so good for the biofilter. Just saying... ;-)


I read somewhere that I could put pantyhose on the filter to prevent from sucking anything important. Is this true?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Wow thanks so much for all the advice bomba! I will get the anarchis and I will look into those that you said


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

B3TT45 said:


> I read somewhere that I could put pantyhose on the filter to prevent from sucking anything important. Is this true?


Yeah, that's what I meant by "nylon". lol Different regions and their dialects. Do most people say "pantyhose"? I give up.


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Yes, but you risk overcrowding the betta. I'd cap it at 8. Still enough to give them the feel of a school, but not so many that they are always in the betta's face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WHOA! *drools over your tank* Mine's pretty shabby looking so far compared to that one! Need to start adding more plants! :-D


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

(The picture finally showed up) wow that's a NICE tank!! Now I know what you mean by how mine is lightly decorated XD I love those "tunnels" you have in the middle!


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Now I feel like my tank is a miserable failure. lol Soon as I get paid, more plants are going in! At least the driftwood keeps my cories hidden when they want to be. Occasionally someone will go hide under there. They'll also go rest in or chill under the anacharis or swords. My swords are still really tiny at the moment, but they'll grow, assuming I can keep them alive.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Meh, don't feel bad about that tank. 6 months later, it was a horrific mess because I didn't keep up with trimming. Literally a jungle. When I broke it down earlier this year, I removed enough java fern to fill a 5 gallon tub BY ITSELF. It was like a triffid. It just kept growing. 

Pretty chuffed with this site for scaping ideas: http://www.tropica.com/en/layouts.aspx


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Meh, don't feel bad about that tank. 6 months later, it was a horrific mess because I didn't keep up with trimming. Literally a jungle. When I broke it down earlier this year, I removed enough java fern to fill a 5 gallon tub BY ITSELF. It was like a triffid. It just kept growing.
> 
> Pretty chuffed with this site for scaping ideas: http://www.tropica.com/en/layouts.aspx


What about if I gets small anarchis and put it on one side and as it grows I trim it and I stick the trims in different places of the tank to make more plants?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Now I feel like my tank is a miserable failure. lol Soon as I get paid, more plants are going in! At least the driftwood keeps my cories hidden when they want to be. Occasionally someone will go hide under there. They'll also go rest in or chill under the anacharis or swords. My swords are still really tiny at the moment, but they'll grow, assuming I can keep them alive.


Don't feel bad I LOVE the concept of the tank and can see that once the back fills out, it will look STUNNING! I really like the contrast with those cute purple ones in the front :3


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Meh, don't feel bad about that tank. 6 months later, it was a horrific mess because I didn't keep up with trimming. Literally a jungle. When I broke it down earlier this year, I removed enough java fern to fill a 5 gallon tub BY ITSELF. It was like a triffid. It just kept growing.
> 
> Pretty chuffed with this site for scaping ideas: http://www.tropica.com/en/layouts.aspx


Wow. Really cool ideas on that site! I'm afraid to do too much because of lack of time. I'm a little worried about creating a jungle, myself. I don't want to get busy, forget to trim, and then have a mess. I also know that my swords will get a lot bigger. They seem to be growing somewhat quickly, too... We'll see- I'm sure I can add some more though without it becoming too jungle-y, though. Just need a little money to get more plants! :lol:


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

B3TT45 said:


> Don't feel bad I LOVE the concept of the tank and can see that once the back fills out, it will look STUNNING! I really like the contrast with those cute purple ones in the front :3


Thanks! Those little reddish/purplish guys are the only fake plants in the tank. So far I just have the anacharis, a couple of amazon swords, and a marimo moss ball. Those are fun- I often come home to find it moved around the tank. Pip, the betta, likes to play with it! :-D


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

hollyk said:


> Thanks! Those little reddish/purplish guys are the only fake plants in the tank. So far I just have the anacharis, a couple of amazon swords, and a marimo moss ball. Those are fun- I often come home to find it moved around the tank. Pip, the betta, likes to play with it! :-D


Oooooh that's a good idea! How do I take care of those moss balls?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Another thing you can do is offer extra trimmings as an RAOK. Just don't trim until you're ready to ship.

Something that was brought home to me is knowing parameters for different fish. I can't have Neons because my water is too hard; Endlers, however, love it. I was going to order Neons from www.msjinkzd.com but, knowing my parameters, she cautioned me against it. Unlike a pet shop that would have sold me a dozen. 

IMO, many fish and invert failures happen because we buy them without knowing if our water can sustain them. I know I sure did! 

Both your tanks are wonderful; they just need to fill in. And as you get more confident, you'll get more plants...and more plants...and a bigger tank...and more plants.... 

I do use Seachem Flourish twice a week to fertilize floating plants.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Another thing you can do is offer extra trimmings as an RAOK. Just don't trim until you're ready to ship.
> 
> Something that was brought home to me is knowing parameters for different fish. I can't have Neons because my water is too hard; Endlers, however, love it. I was going to order Neons from www.msjinkzd.com but, knowing my parameters, she cautioned me against it. Unlike a pet shop that would have sold me a dozen.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have to check my water I keep forgetting :lol:

Btw what's RAOK???


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Random Act of Kindness. Like the one I had that just ended: Three Cholla sticks and I paid for shipping, too. There's a link in my sig.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Update: added the anarchis and Marimo (it's so cute! I named him fluffy XD) there's nothing special that I need for them right? One thing though is that due to the current caused by the heater, the plant is slanted towards the left and idk how to fix this. I got one of the stems and stuck it on the opposite side. Meanwhile, I just dropped the ball in lol

I also bought seachem for the cycling. Good idea? Bad idea? How well does this help with cycling and does it speed it up?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

O yeah and with this product do I have to still add ammonia? (The product is just a liquid full of bacteria, supposedly anyway)

(Random question) can I add some platies to my tank? Follow up question.... If so, can I add a few platies and lower the amount of neons I will have (maybe 6?)


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Seachem supposedly speeds up the cycle. There are mixed opinions on whether or not it works, but it can't hurt. 

Platies and neons have very different water requirements. Platies like hard alkaline water, and neons prefer soft, acidic water. Also, platies have a higher bioload than neons, so you'd have to reduce your neon school below its optimum size to accomodate the platies. Go with either one or the other, depending on your water parameters. 

Anacharis and marimo will be fine without fertilisers; they just need light. If you do want to fertilise them, I'd use Flourish, also by Seachem.

Anacharis will be happy growing any which way. It can even float, if you prefer.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Seachem supposedly speeds up the cycle. There are mixed opinions on whether or not it works, but it can't hurt.
> 
> Platies and neons have very different water requirements. Platies like hard alkaline water, and neons prefer soft, acidic water. Also, platies have a higher bioload than neons, so you'd have to reduce your neon school below its optimum size to accomodate the platies. Go with either one or the other, depending on your water parameters.
> 
> ...


Alright I really need to buy a test kit haha. Btw I found out my ph is 7.4 would that accomadate the neons or platies better?
Also, I noticed that my lid on the tank gets way too hot when the light is on. Is that a problem or is it normal?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It's not awesome that it's super-heating the lid, that's for sure. I'd keep an eye on that, just in case. It's more of a problem if it is drastically altering water temperature, though. If it is, I'd suggest looking into a different light, if the tank fixture will accomodate one. 

7.4 is not far off neutral, and will do for either fish, though it is at the very upper range of what neons will happily tolerate. It would be more suited for platies. I reckon three or four sunburst, or even blue platies, would look amazing with a betta. If you have a particularly peaceful betta, guppies would also be an option, though that's a gamble. Endlers would also be great.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> It's not awesome that it's super-heating the lid, that's for sure. I'd keep an eye on that, just in case. It's more of a problem if it is drastically altering water temperature, though. If it is, I'd suggest looking into a different light, if the tank fixture will accomodate one.
> 
> 7.4 is not far off neutral, and will do for either fish, though it is at the very upper range of what neons will happily tolerate. It would be more suited for platies. I reckon three or four sunburst, or even blue platies, would look amazing with a betta. If you have a particularly peaceful betta, guppies would also be an option, though that's a gamble. Endlers would also be great.


I have checked EVERYWHERE for endlers and no store near me sells them!!! 

Ok so platys seems like a good choice... Can I have different types of platys (sunburst, Dalmatian, blue, Mickey, etc.) together or they have to be the same for a school?

Also, the water stays the same temperature, it's just the lid getting really hot


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes, you can mix and match with platys - they are just colour morphs, rather than different species. 

It's good that the water is the same temperature - that's the important part! With a betta + platies, I'd be aiming for about 77F.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Yes, you can mix and match with platys - they are just colour morphs, rather than different species.
> 
> It's good that the water is the same temperature - that's the important part! With a betta + platies, I'd be aiming for about 77F.


Wow that's awesome!! I will have a color explosion in my tank woohoo!! There's no problem with betas and platies now right?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It depends on the betta. Some see all that colour and get angry, but a moderately chilled betta should be fine. As with all betta + community tanks, it's a risk.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> It depends on the betta. Some see all that colour and get angry, but a moderately chilled betta should be fine. As with all betta + community tanks, it's a risk.


Do bettas attack platies more often than not attacking them?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I don't think so - many bettas are great at living in community tanks. Unfortunately, it's really hard to predict - they are such individual fish! That's why we love 'em, though.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> I don't think so - many bettas are great at living in community tanks. Unfortunately, it's really hard to predict - they are such individual fish! That's why we love 'em, though.


I guess I will have to try but I'm very worried since I don't exactly have a plan B


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

There are a couple of things you can do.

- Make sure that the shop has a return policy in case he is too aggressive.
- Whilst choosing, go for a fish that doesn't react to the fish around it (but is still healthy).

That'll maximise your chances.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

So I checked my temp and the reading said it was 80 degrees and sometimes it went to 81!!!!!!! How do I fix this?????? Can my future fish survive this???


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Also, today I checked my water parameters again....
Yesterday my ammonia was at 0.35 with no nitrites and nitrates so I put in like 1/3 of my fish food bag into that tank (a little exaggerated but you get the point...) and I added sea chem stability. I checked it today... It was 0.15 or something and no nitrites and nitrates!!! How is this possible?? The guy said it may have speed cycled over night and the addition of plants and sea chem may have kept it stable and I should stop adding ammonia and in a week I could possibly add fish.
Should I trust what this guy said and can you explain wtf happened o.0


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Don't trust the dude. It's not going to cycle overnight, even with Stability.

The temperature you have is actually fine for a betta. However, it sounds like the light might be heating the water after all - do you have a thermometer you can leave it all the time?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Don't trust the dude. It's not going to cycle overnight, even with Stability.
> 
> The temperature you have is actually fine for a betta. However, it sounds like the light might be heating the water after all - do you have a thermometer you can leave it all the time?


No i forgot to buy it D:

So if the tank isn't cycled, how is the ammonia lower???


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

The Stability is using it up. It's just not cycling it yet. You need to get about 4ppm of ammonia.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

And have a back up plan if you can't return the companion fish: A second tank sufficient to house either your Betta or the new fish.

I have used Stability to do five fish-in cycles. It took 8-10 days. Once cycled, there's no need to continue adding Stability. Never done a fishless cycle.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> And have a back up plan if you can't return the companion fish: A second tank sufficient to house either your Betta or the new fish.
> 
> I have used Stability to do five fish-in cycles. It took 8-10 days. Once cycled, there's no need to continue adding Stability. Never done a fishless cycle.


Oooh I wanna do that! How do I do the fish-in cycle with platies?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> The Stability is using it up. It's just not cycling it yet. You need to get about 4ppm of ammonia.


ah more ammonia then? Hmm.....

Btw would platies be able to support those temperatures?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Since you've already started a fishless cycle, I would recommend you continue or start all over.

I don't know about the platies. You could Google if no one answers.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

The platies could survive at that temperature no problem, but they'll be happier around 77.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Although the bottle says that it is possible to add the fish in while using the Bacteria until the tank is fully cycled so idk


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

also my tank water has this weird film on top of it is that bad?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You can add the fish now, but you'd have to do a 100% water change to remove all the fish food and ammonia. You also need to keep up a strict water change regimen whilst doing the fish-in cycle so that they aren't exposed to toxic levels of ammonia/nitrite.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> You can add the fish now, but you'd have to do a 100% water change to remove all the fish food and ammonia. You also need to keep up a strict water change regimen whilst doing the fish-in cycle so that they aren't exposed to toxic levels of ammonia/nitrite.


Wow really???? How so? (Is it the film?)

Also, today I noticed my anarchis suddenly had a growth spurt and grew so much that its touching the water surface and it bent since it's now taller and the anarchis branch that I put behind my red plant magically grew and now is standing there out of the plant's reach. 
Moreover, I noticed the fish food that's rotting there has HAIRS growing all around it. They're very fine and they look like a little halo around it, is that bad?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, you can't add the fish whilst you've still got decomposing fish food in there - that's there to cause an ammonia spike, which is harmful to your fish.  If you do choose to go fish-in, you have to be careful to get it all out so that there isn't any left to harm them. 

The film could be a number of things - hard to say without a picture. 

Anacharis grows like a lunatic. If you want to trim it, just snip it off where ever you like and plant the new stem in the substrate.  Alternatively, just let it grow all over the place. I once pulled a 7ft strand out of my tank after failing to trim it for a few months. 

The hairs sound quite normal - after all, the fish food is decomposing. That's what causes the ammonia.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

S now my follow- up question is how do I change the water 100% and get the food? :/ 
Also, when I change the water, do I also take the pellets that are caught up in the filter cartridge as well? 

I am gonna try to get a picture of the film right now....

(Bomba you are my fish savior!!! You don't understand how grateful I am for all your help!)


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Idk if you can see it well....


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

here's a better one


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Lol, it's no problem. That's what this forum is here for. 

The filmy thing just looks like dust, or maybe a protein film (though I'm not sure how common they are before there is a fish in the tank). Either way, it looks harmless.

To do a 100% change, scoop all of the water out with a clean, new jug or use a gravel vacuum (seriously useful piece of kit - I couldn't be without mine). Then rinse the gravel thoroughly in the sink. Re-fill with fresh, conditioned water.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Lol, it's no problem. That's what this forum is here for.
> 
> The filmy thing just looks like dust, or maybe a protein film (though I'm not sure how common they are before there is a fish in the tank). Either way, it looks harmless.
> 
> To do a 100% change, scoop all of the water out with a clean, new jug or use a gravel vacuum (seriously useful piece of kit - I couldn't be without mine). Then rinse the gravel thoroughly in the sink. Re-fill with fresh, conditioned water.


I have a siphon but idk how to seperate the food from the gravel and should I take out the pellets from the filter? This would be my first time doing a water change in a 10 gallon so should I remove the gravel from the plants as well and just replant them or what


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I would put the gravel in a tub, cover it with water and swirl it thoroughly with your hand. The food should come the top, where you can pour it away. However, before you'd do that, I'd use the siphon in the tank - just stab it into the gravel and bits of food should start coming up. 

Lay the plants aside whilst you do this - just keep them wet.  Then, when the tank is back together, you can reassemble them.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> I would put the gravel in a tub, cover it with water and swirl it thoroughly with your hand. The food should come the top, where you can pour it away. However, before you'd do that, I'd use the siphon in the tank - just stab it into the gravel and bits of food should start coming up.
> 
> Lay the plants aside whilst you do this - just keep them wet.  Then, when the tank is back together, you can reassemble them.


Did the water change and it was a horrible mess, I really think I did many, many things wrong but oh well. Water went EVERYWHERE, gravel fell on the floor, left the plants out for a while and now the plants don't want to stand straight like the used to? 
I put in water straight from the tap and my de chlorinator. In the end, I couldn't take out that nasty last %1 so I left it there. I also left the filter out without water and washed the heck out of it for a long time, hope it doesn't affect the bacteria. 

Now, should I continue adding seachem? Also, should it be fine to buy fish and add them today or tomorrow and how many at a time should I do it?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Add the fish and continue to follow the instructions on the Seachem bottle - I believe they suggest a ten day course once you've added the fish.  

There won't be much BB in the filter by now anyway, so don't worry too much about that. I'd also not worry about the extra little gunk - it will be removed with water changes over time.

If you want to go out and get the platies now, go for it. I'd get 2 today, wait a week, get the next one or two, wait another week, then choose your betta.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> Add the fish and continue to follow the instructions on the Seachem bottle - I believe they suggest a ten day course once you've added the fish.
> 
> There won't be much BB in the filter by now anyway, so don't worry too much about that. I'd also not worry about the extra little gunk - it will be removed with water changes over time.
> 
> If you want to go out and get the platies now, go for it. I'd get 2 today, wait a week, get the next one or two, wait another week, then choose your betta.


alright! so excited to get my platies tomorrow! tell you how everything will go tomorrow, thinking of making the first 2 a panda platy and an orangey mickey, both male, as my whole tank will be


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

:shock: Your tank discriminates against females?? Lol, just kidding! Platies (platys?) breed like crazy. Probably not a bad idea to keep all of one sex together.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Boo! Sexist tank!  Nah, I totally agree, one gender is much safer.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Update: the plants are straightening out again and the moss ball sank lol

Yeah I like all males better because they have brighter colors and females will make me have a lot more fish than I can handle lol!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Awesome update!! Got my two boys, Mickey and Sebastian :3


----------



## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Ooh, yay! They're handsome!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Now that I got them.... Can I feed them my old betta's pellets? Also, do I need to do anything special now or just leave them be?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Well my boys have adjusted beautifully to the tank! They are very active and love to look at their reflections on the side Lol 
It's been one day and Mickey has gained a LOT of color. I'm surprised but he's VERY yellow now and even has some blue iridescence! 

One thing that I have noticed (I think it's from my messy water change....) is that it looks like the bottom of my anarchis is dying D: how do I keep it from completely dying???
Also, I haven't gave any food to the platies yet should I feed them today (can I use my betta's pellets?) or just wait another day?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

If the bottom is dying, I would chop it off and re-plant the healthy part. It could be that there isn't enouhg fertilisation in the tank - now you have some fish in there, their poop will start acting as fertiliser. 

I would buy a community pellet for them.  My absolute favourite is New Life Spectrum. My fish vary from tiny to very small, so I have the Small Fish Pellet, but they also do a more general one, as well as a betta specific one. The reason I say this is that platies are more omnivorous than bettas, and need more vegetable matter in their diet than a high-quality betta pellet will provide.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Alright well I didn't find new life spectrum but I did find this nifty little tetramin bottle that contained three different types of food (baby shrimp, flakes, and granules) and I bought it. Gave the granules to my fish and they LOVED it!!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

update: I did a 20-30% WC (lol I don't know the exact number) to clear all the stuff. Yesterday by accident I put it in WAY too much food by accident (the bottle is not a shaker :/) and I ended up with A LOT to clean up today and a lot of poop too. There was some left over but it's not like I have to take out 100% because of that mistake hopefully. 
I decided to not cut the plants because it seems like the bottom parts are brown but their green branches that grew bigger seem healthy and look like it's still growing. 
On another note, I REALLY need help with using a siphon. To get it going I put my mouth on it (please tell me there's another more sanitized way) and suck on it and let it go right before the water gets to my mouth (sometimes it does ) although, I have issues getting it started sometimes with that method so I would like some help.
Also, is it safe to buy another set of 2 fish to add to the tank? If so, do I need to quarantine them? How?


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

That's one way to start a siphon, and it does work. Just rinse with mouthwash afterwards. The other, much less fish-mouthy way, is:

- place siphon horizontally in tank
- tilt siphon so that handle is down and sucker end is up
- lift until water flows out of the other end of the hose
- before all the water runs out of the sucker part, put it back underwater so that it suck more water in
- tilt the sucker end towards the gravel and siphon away.

Alternatively, check out a youtube tutorial - guaranteed to be clearer than my explanation. 

It isdefinitely best to QT the new fish - in a separate tank with a different filter and heater, using none of the same equipment.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Today I noticed my anarchis may not be dying (I still don't know why it's brown on the bottom) it has grown A LOT and the brown parts of the plant spurted out green branches it's very odd. Also, the plant's branches tend to "move". 
I may get more fish next week btw ^.^


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Happy thanksgiving to all!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

So today I went to check my water and was all prepped up for getting more fish. The guy told me my nitrites and nitrates wee a tad high (they were at 10, very high) and advices me against getting a new fish. I don't know why this is happening I have been on schedule for water changes but maybe it's the decaying plant matter that I have to take out. How do I lower those levels?

Also, I saw something very strange as I was feeding my fish not to long ago. I was watching them munch on the flakes when suddenly my attention goes to the fake driftwood on the bottom. I see this big piece of debris and upon closer inspection it was moving and had antennas. It was a snail! How on earth did that thing get in the tank??? I don't know anything about snail types what I can tell you the shell was shaped like a spiral cone (if this makes any sense) and it was a dark brown shell. Should I keep it or take it out??
It obviously was very young since it was tiny and as fast as it came, it disappeared and I tried so hard to get to see him again, and I couldn't find him anywhere :/


----------



## eden000 (May 23, 2013)

Sounds like a pond snail pest. I would take it out - they multiply like crazy and will only make your tank dirtier. My planted tank is currently infested


----------



## Kumo (Oct 26, 2013)

I have had about 20 african dwarf frogs in a 20 gallon tank with 3 snails. Everyone did fine. We had a canister filter and a 20 gallon quietflow filter for the tank. A lot of information on dwarf frogs vary though. Some sites say anything from .5 a gallon for 1 frog to anywhere to 5 gallons per frogs (to me, the 5 gallon per 1 frog is ridiculious).

Dwarf frogs love being in large communities. they get stressed if there's only 2-4 total in the tank. I recommend having at least 5 dwarf frogs in the tank once you upgrade your size.


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

I removed the snail and everything is fine for now. I noticed that my Micky mouse platy was chasing and even fighting with my red wag (which isn't as big as him) is this normal or how to I stop this? 
I just did a 50% water (I still managed to make a huge mess -.-') to remove the dead plants and nitrites and nitrates. I will test it soon and see how it goes to see if I can introduce a new buddy for them!


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> There are a couple of things you can do.
> 
> - Make sure that the shop has a return policy in case he is too aggressive.
> - Whilst choosing, go for a fish that doesn't react to the fish around it (but is still healthy).
> ...


Lol it's been a while! I'm back and with 2 new platies... Next week I will get my last Platy so they would form a hierarchy and prevent fighting. After the last Platy I am debating whether or not I could stick something else (fish, frog, snail?) before adding my betta. What do you think? 

Btw I have had the same filter cartridge all along since they beginning and it's looking ugly and brown now should I change it?


----------



## MissMegan (Jan 6, 2014)

Do you guys think it's possibly to have tank mates for a 5.5gal? Maybe shrimp?


----------



## B3TT45 (Oct 9, 2013)

MissMegan said:


> Do you guys think it's possibly to have tank mates for a 5.5gal? Maybe shrimp?


Shrimp or snail or maybe possibly an oto catfish. Not too much really that's what I have come to learn. If you like, maybe and adf.


----------

