# Sand?



## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

How many of y'all use sand in your tanks? I love the way the sand looks as opposed to gravel. The horrible brightly covered gravel reminds me of something a clown would puke up.  I put some teal gravel in there, but I eventually want to switch it to sand. What kind of sand do y'all recommend? 
Thanks!!!


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

I have gravel at the moment but planning a 20 long upgrade which will have sand..I am planning on using pool filter sand..Like 5 dollars for 50 lbs at Home Depot!


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

clopez1 said:


> I am planning on using pool filter sand..Like 5 dollars for 50 lbs at Home Depot!


Nice!! I wasn't sure if I *HAD* to use aquarium sand or not. I would love to get some white sand though. His colors would look amazing in front of that!


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

Pool filter sand is innate..silica I think it's called..Works with fish tanks and cheap..Bigger grains and heavier than regular sand so not much kicking up and dust when you move stuff around...I hear it's a bright white.


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

Can also use play sand for sand boxes but I hear that's a bit more of a pain and sometimes has more than just sand.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

clopez1 said:


> Can also use play sand for sand boxes but I hear that's a bit more of a pain and sometimes has more than just sand.


Yeah, the guy at my LFS told me to stay away from play sand. I'll probably see if I can get a deal on aquarium sand when I'm in there next. I go in there often enough!! :lol:


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

Actually, I just noticed that Home Depot sent me a coupon. Looks like I'm getting some pool filter sand! Haha


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

Very nice!


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## Maddybelle (Sep 29, 2012)

All my tanks used to be barebottom, since I hate (!) gravel. I tried play sand once. My advice? RUN, don't walk, away from the play sand! It gets compacted and anaerobic within 2 days. I ended up stirring my sand 4x a day, and still ended up with black, nasty sand full of toxic gass bubbles!
Then, I found Petco sand. I'm switching all my tanks over to it: nice big grains, pretty colors, water ran clear with one rinse! (mine's black)
Pool filter sand would work, if you can find it. I couldn't, and it only comes in white. Also, has anyone had any issues with the pool filter sand being too sharp?


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## MissLyss1024 (Jun 24, 2012)

I picked up a 50lb bag of Quickrete Fine Grade sand from Home Depot yesterday for my tanks ($5!!). It's not white but it's nice and natural looking. Only downfall so far is it was D.I.R.T.Y. I rinsed a few cups at a time and it took a while before the water was running clear. It's worth it, but make sure you rinse it really well!


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

That's the brand they sell here at my Home Depot too..Glad it's not too white..I would hate to blind my fish..was going to off set it with a painted black background.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

Maddybelle said:


> All my tanks used to be barebottom, since I hate (!) gravel. I tried play sand once. My advice? RUN, don't walk, away from the play sand! It gets compacted and anaerobic within 2 days. I ended up stirring my sand 4x a day, and still ended up with black, nasty sand full of toxic gass bubbles!
> Then, I found Petco sand. I'm switching all my tanks over to it: nice big grains, pretty colors, water ran clear with one rinse! (mine's black)
> Pool filter sand would work, if you can find it. I couldn't, and it only comes in white. Also, has anyone had any issues with the pool filter sand being too sharp?


Oh my goodness! I just looked at the petco sand online. I love it! Also, I'm not sure how much sand to put in each aquarium. I have a 10 gallon & a 3 gallon that I'm going to put a female betta in tomorrow (hopefully if I can find one I like.) Is there a wait period after you put the sand in?


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

I have play sand in my tanks and I haven't had a problem so far. I wan't to get the quickrete sand but I couldn't find any. I have used the petco sand in the past and didnt care for it. It's coated with something that caused the bubbles from my filter not to pop. The waters surface looked like a huge bubble nest. It took like 20 water changes for it to stop bubbling.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> Then, I found Petco sand. I'm switching all my tanks over to it: nice big grains, pretty colors, water ran clear with one rinse! (mine's black)


Did you get the regular petco brand? I got that kind in black and it's raised the ph of my 20 gallon to 9! I already lost half my fish from it. The sand also has a layer about a cm thick air bubbles or something. Is this normal for sand? I would not recommend petco sand because it has caused me serious problems in my tank.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

I have many Natural Planted Tanks with about 1 inch of dirt covered by 2-3 inches of Petco sand. It has never raised my pH but it does bubble up a bit...I pre-rinsed sand 1 time and it did not really make a difference regarding the bubbles. The bubble foam went away within a couple hours so although there were no adverse effects in my tanks.

I love this sand and would recommend it as a cap for a soil based/walstad method tank without reservation.

For the dirt tanks/walstad method, you can potentially stock your tank immediately, but remember that with these tanks, you are creating a mini ecosystem, with nutrients available and tons of plants (fast growing varieties) to soak up any excess ammonia, etc. But, I ually wait a few days, testing the water multiple times per day, before adding fish etc to the tank.

Two things to note:
1. I have tried "natural white" sand...regular off-white color...it has the effect of washing out colors...Something I had heard about but didn't quite believe until I tried it for myself! My advice would be to use black or the dark red/brown. If your avatar, the red betta, is the one you want to stand out, show off his colors, brighten him up by using black! Trust me, don't use the lighter colors, go with black!

2. This is more of a confused question/comment...if this is a,New tank, are you cycling it? A 10gallon tank, if it is NOT a Natural Planted Tank with dirt and lots of live plants NEEDS to be cycled, preferably BEFORE fish are added.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

my favorite (if you have petland discounts near you) is stony river sand.
no cleaning needed...
sinks right away...I used to pour it straight into my tank, unwashed


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

ravenwinds said:


> I have many Natural Planted Tanks with about 1 inch of dirt covered by 2-3 inches of Petco sand. It has never raised my pH but it does bubble up a bit...I pre-rinsed sand 1 time and it did not really make a difference regarding the bubbles. The bubble foam went away within a couple hours so although there were no adverse effects in my tanks.
> 
> I love this sand and would recommend it as a cap for a soil based/walstad method tank without reservation.
> 
> ...


It's already been cycled.  And I'll definitely get a darker sand, probably the black. He's red to the naked eye, but when the flash on my camera comes on, you can see all of this gorgeous blue in him. I just took some pictures & I'm sorting through them now. Thank you so much for your input & advice. I'm going to Petco tomorrow to get some sand & a heater for a new tank.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

aokashi said:


> my favorite (if you have petland discounts near you) is stony river sand.
> no cleaning needed...
> sinks right away...I used to pour it straight into my tank, unwashed


I don't think we have any of those around here.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

Ok, so I went to Petco to get some things & came home with this little gem--










I bought some black sand & put it in the new fish's tank. I can't see him though! I feel so stupid, I didn't even think about him being mostly black. Any suggestions on a different color? I love the Petco sand btw!


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

The petco sand looks really good, but like I said, I think it caused serious ph problems in my tank. This isn't common, so I wouldn't worry, but let me know if it affects anything. I'm still trying to figure out if it was the sand or not, so I'd like to hear how it worked for other people. Hopefully it will work great for you!


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

Leopardfire said:


> The petco sand looks really good, but like I said, I think it caused serious ph problems in my tank. This isn't common, so I wouldn't worry, but let me know if it affects anything. I'm still trying to figure out if it was the sand or not, so I'd like to hear how it worked for other people. Hopefully it will work great for you!


I'll let you know!


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## clopez1 (May 23, 2012)

Just got a bag of pool filter sand..$3.49 since no one showed up to get the bag off the shelf after waiting about 20 minutes..Can't beat that deal..Will be cleaning it then it goes in tomorrow..I want to let the sand get to temp.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Bettasaur: I don't have any ideas on different color...at my Petco we have black, rust red (probably trying to copy the "red river" varieties of eco-complete, etc), and almost white...I haven't had any trouble seeing my darker fish, even the blacks, with the black sand...it usually makes a nice contrast to any iridescent wash the fish may have. My reds and red/blues look gorgeous on the black sand. Only thing I can think of is that I use either T5 fluorescent tubes or the coiled fluorescent bulbs that give 6,500watts(?..brain freeze at the moment!) These are higher output lighting designed for planted aquariums...sad to think these are the lowest ones for planted tanks (I need to upgrade). Bottom line is if you are using hood and bulb that came with your 10gallon, that is considered "low light" and if you have back of tank painted black, maybe the light is too low to really see your dark bettas...just a guess.
Also: awesome find on the red and black bicolor...what a beautiful little gem!

Just thought of idea: you could buy lighter colored sand (even the off white because it would just make a charcoal color!) And mix it with the black, stirring it in...it would brighten up the tank without making everything appear washed out


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> you could buy lighter colored sand (even the off white because it would just make a charcoal color!) And mix it with the black, stirring it in...it would brighten up the tank without making everything appear washed out


That sounds really cool! I might try that in my tank.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

ravenwinds said:


> Bettasaur: I don't have any ideas on different color...at my Petco we have black, rust red (probably trying to copy the "red river" varieties of eco-complete, etc), and almost white...I haven't had any trouble seeing my darker fish, even the blacks, with the black sand...it usually makes a nice contrast to any iridescent wash the fish may have. My reds and red/blues look gorgeous on the black sand. Only thing I can think of is that I use either T5 fluorescent tubes or the coiled fluorescent bulbs that give 6,500watts(?..brain freeze at the moment!) These are higher output lighting designed for planted aquariums...sad to think these are the lowest ones for planted tanks (I need to upgrade). Bottom line is if you are using hood and bulb that came with your 10gallon, that is considered "low light" and if you have back of tank painted black, maybe the light is too low to really see your dark bettas...just a guess.
> Also: awesome find on the red and black bicolor...what a beautiful little gem!
> 
> Just thought of idea: you could buy lighter colored sand (even the off white because it would just make a charcoal color!) And mix it with the black, stirring it in...it would brighten up the tank without making everything appear washed out


I ended up getting the black for both tanks. I love it!! Sounds like I need to upgraded my lights! I love the idea of the off white mixed with black!! Thanks so much! Yeah, I got REALLY lucky with that the red & black. He's ridiculously gorgeous no matter what I put him in!! The ends of his fins are almost see though!


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I like the Petco sand because they have it on a dark/royal blue color 
I also have regular play sand I got from toys r us.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Lucky you Tikibirds! My Petco doesn't carry DRM blue sand...wish they did; I have a male HM imported by Jennifer Viveros and he is sapphire blue with dark red fins...I bet he would "pop" in a tank with dark blue sand...maybe I can get it off their website if shipping cost doesn't double the cost!

Bettasaur: I bet they both look gorgeous with that dense black sand! I bid on a betta from Thailand who looked like your 2nd guy. I almost got him but someone started to outbid me on the last day...I backed out after he went up to 50$ because I just can't see spending that much on a fish that could die before he even spawned. He was a butterfly as well so his fins were edged in transparent black then ringed in clear for about 2-3mm.


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## Greylady (Jul 15, 2012)

I have white sand from petco in my tank (there's a pic in my album, although the plant's have probably doubled in size since the pic was taken). I love the look of the sand. I don't remember what brand it was, but I got it at PETCO in the little 5 lb bags. My tank is only 6.6 gallons so I only needed two bags. The sand has large granules, very small compared to gravel but not as tiny as real sand. This helps with the live plants, because the roots can get between the granules as well as the oxygen. I also put MTS's in the tank to keep it aerated and to keep the toxic air pockets from forming. It feels soft like sand so it's safe for my betta. It's also really easy to clean because everything sits on top, I just vacume just above it and anything sitting there gets sucked up, or I use a turkey baster if there are just a few poops or something I want to get out. I was planing to use pool filter sand but there aren't any home depots or Lowes around that carry it, maybe because there are so many pool stores around but the pool stores only carry 100 lb bags. So I gave up and just went ahead and purchased the PETCO sand, now I'm very glad I did.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

It is easy to clean with vacuum...if you need to, swirl the vacuum about 1/2 to 1 inch from sand and the swirling will create a mini tornado with the poop etc and it will just be sucked right up the hose.

+1 to greylady on your points...you mentioned all the things to look out for...and you remembered the MTS: Malaysian trumpet snails spend a lot of time burrowing around in your sand so they help to keep it aerated. In my opinion, they are a must have with sand substrates. They rarely (some people say never) eat aquatic plants, they are cheap but attractive (aquabid usually has a few auctions running for these guys), they stay small, and most bettas don't worry about them! But, they can easily become an uncontrolled population if you don't monitor them and take measures accordingly.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

ravenwinds said:


> +1 to greylady on your points...you mentioned all the things to look out for...and you remembered the MTS: Malaysian trumpet snails spend a lot of time burrowing around in your sand so they help to keep it aerated. In my opinion, they are a must have with sand substrates. They rarely (some people say never) eat aquatic plants, they are cheap but attractive (aquabid usually has a few auctions running for these guys), they stay small, and most bettas don't worry about them! But, they can easily become an uncontrolled population if you don't monitor them and take measures accordingly.


How do you keep the population under control?


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## Greylady (Jul 15, 2012)

I haven't had an issue yet. I know there are a lot under the substrate because if I watch closely I can see it moving. There will usually be three or four out on plants eating the algae off the leaves (they only eat the dead leaves or rotting stems, they leave the healthy part of the plant alone.) Or wandering around cleaning the rocks and the log, even the substrate.

I've read that they will only multiply up to the amount the tank can support, once the supply of food is diminished, the snails will stop reproducing, supply and demand in nature is very common. But I've also read were people have stated their tanks are "overrun" with them. I don't know what they mean by overrun, perhaps they have an algae problem and that's the reason.

Anyway, I like them and don't mind seeing them in the tank, they're fun to watch and they keep my betta entertained also, he watches them but doesn't try to eat them.

But if you do find you end up with too many there are several options I've read. You can get a Assassin snail, they will eat the MTS, but you may end up with no MTS at all, then you have to find something else for the assassin snail to eat. Or they say you can just cook them, like you would a lobster, then throw them away. You can also buy a spice called Alum. You mix 3 tbls Alum per gallon of water, let it sit over night and drop in the snails, this is suppose to kill them instantly. You can also use this mixture to "clean" your plants to make sure you have no hitchhikers when you bring home your plants. When using the Alum for this purpose, keep the plants in the water mixture for three hours as it will take that long to penetrate and kill the eggs. MTS are live bearers, not egg bearers but this will kill any other types of snails that may be on your plants. They also say you can just quickly and humanely "smash" them with a hammer, then feed them to your fish...sushi! Lol

I haven't had to "dispose" of any yet so I haven't attempted any of these options. Like I said, I put them I my tank intentionally due to the sand substrate and trying to have a "natural" tank with live plants etc. But I have heard that once have you them, you pretty much have them, it is very difficult to completely eradicate them once they are in your tank without breaking down the whole thing and doing a through cleaning with salt water and or bleach.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

At first, you don't have to do anything special, and they do seem to be slower to grow beyond your needs. When you get a big pile of them in one tank and you have no other tank that needs some, you have a few options:

*****pick them out by hand, or put a piece of lettuce out right before turning off light for the night and then collect the lettuce with snails on it (cucumber slices work well, too)...you will probably need to wake up late, late night or very early before dawn as these snails do most of their burrowing in the day time; they are more nocturnal than some aquatic snails which means you'll possibly only see a few during the day 

1. You just throw the snails away while still lettuce.
2. Set them in a dry cup and alone for the day. They will be long dead after an hour or 2.
3. You could give them away to friends or acquaintances.
4. You could sell them on aquabid.

Honestly, I think after about 6mos or longer, your population might need to be thinned, so don't worry about it being too much trouble. MTS are helpful little buggers and the only snails I would suggest to anyone. 
If you periodically remove snail egg nests from leaves and glass, you should have no issues keeping population under control.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

My bad! I was thinking of ramshorn snails and their egg nest all over leaves and glass. Ramshorns are almost as bad as the bane of all aquatic gardeners everywhere: pond snails! Ramshorns sometimes attack a stem plant (a cutting from a plant, usually sold in bunches) and start to eat it, which weakens it, sometimes fatally.
Assassin snails are great, and they work slowly to eradicate every snail in the tank.

I, too, intentionally added MTS to my tanks for a healthier substrate for my plants and fish. I also have not had to eradicate any MTS; with 16+ NPTs, I always have a tank that "could use a few more MTS,"


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

:/ what kind of ramshorns did you get??? mine never touches a plant unless it's already dying... if you clean the tank regularly... they dont reproduce all that fast.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

All my tanks get water changes, which probably screws up the plant ecosystem since I NPTs, for the most part, Walstad method. I just don't trust my "fishies to a tank where water is frequently changed! 
Except for my assassin snails, all my other snails infiltrated my aquariums by tagging along with some plants I didn't quarantine long enough with alum. 
My ramshorns are plain, dark brown and a red sunburst color. I can't comment on other types of snails, but my ramshorns are extremely prolific and despite others' experience, I have had new plant cuttings eaten tp point of death with ramshorns crawling all over it.
I have had no issues with my MTS as they did/do what is expected of them and they seem to leave my plants alone...but due to my experience with the ramshorns, I won't necessarily trust them to leave my plants alone completely.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

*definetely subscribing to this thread! Cany anyone offer ay opinions? In my 10 gallon tank i have this rainbow gravel and now i want more natural looking. I will be switching the substrate in the cycled 10 gallon tank with my 2 yr VT. I was going to buy pool filter sand, but couldnt get it, so i really am thinking about PETCO's WHITE or BLACK sand? How many inches? Opinions? Thoughts?

Thanks, and share pics!

also, how often should i stir it becasue of gas bubbles?*


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Want black sand? It's by Caribsea and I'm using it for my 20L.  I'll tell you how it goes, I'm cleaning it later today.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

thanks lebron!

Could you post a pic?

i thought carribsea altered your water chemistry..


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Well, I'll get you a link. I thought it was Petco sand that altered the pH.. Who knows?


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

gahhh... i have such hard water and a high ph i dont want it to alter it!

has yours altered your parameters?


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=13ms72npr&sigi=11u34e9n3&.crumb=L72RITWOfRG This is it, but it's just black sand. I found it in my LFS so I don't really know.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

MyRainbowBettaFish said:


> gahhh... i have such hard water and a high ph i dont want it to alter it!
> 
> has yours altered your parameters?



I have hard water, too... I didn't even open the bag yet. xD I'll clean it right now and put it in dechlorinated tap water then I'll test. Hopefully it won't alter.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

oh yep. i have seen that sand at my LFS but the reviews say it is really dusty and clouds easy. I really like the look though. does it cloud or clog your filter?

yay!

Cant wait to hear how it goes!


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I took so long.. Lol


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

uggh...

that was the "super natural sand" right?

I might go with the Petco sand, but i would REALLY prefer pool filter sand lol, because of the bigger grain, but i couldnt get it


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Yep. Why can't you get it? :/


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Petco brand has,never altered my tanks water, I have hard water as well. It didn't cloud my water, either.
I would suggest the black sand as Petco white sand...is really white, so you see any and all detritus on the floor...makes it look dirty faster. Also, because it's so white, it tends to leach out colors...everything looks washed out.
You could mix back and white together if you don't want black only.

How many inches is kind of up to you. Will you need it to anchor plants? Then I would at least 1 inch. If you don't need it to anchor plants, I would keep it under an inch. If your tank isn't planted and you don't have MTS- Malaysian Trumpet Snails- I would stir the sand at least 1/month during cleaning. I have heard it recommended that you stir sand around at every cleaning.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

> gahhh... i have such hard water and a high ph i dont want it to alter it!
> 
> has yours altered your parameters?


Be careful with the black Petco sand! I got if for my 20 gallon and it raised my ph to over 9 which killed all my fish and plants. I put a little sand in a bowl to make sure it was the sand that did this and within a week it had raised ph of the bowl water to 9. Most people don't have this problem, but I would test out a little sand in a bowl before putting it in just in case.


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## titusthebetta (Sep 2, 2011)

I just got Caribsea Sand for my tank. It looks absolutely stunning! It's not supposed to alter the pH in the tank, but I haven't checked to see.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I did. It didn't change anything at all.


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## bettasaur (Sep 17, 2012)

Completely regretting the sand decision. It's a pain in my ass to clean. I love the all black look in my tanks though, so I'll probably gradually start switching them to black gravel soon. -sigh.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Maybe it's easier when you have a Natural Planted Tank capped w/sand....after awhile, your ecosystem takes care of most of the mess...

But, really...you do know that you just hold the aquarium vacuum about half inch to inch over the sand, swirl gently...and well, Up It Goes!
If you have just sand and no trumpet snails, the lower part of sand is pretty much left undisturbed and the poop and leaf litter sit on top not edging down in substrate like they would w/gravel....you do know you don't shove the vacuum tube down in the sand like you would with gravel...don't you?
If there are trumpet snails, more will be disturbed, and you'll definitely not end up with dead spots (anaerobic that is ...which can form some nasties for your aquarium so having trumpets are a GOOD thing  but , again, all the mulm that needs to be vacuumed will end up in neat little piles around your decoration bases!


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## XxXMermaidzXxX (Sep 28, 2012)

I use gravel... Just thinking about sand.. How do you clean the tank with out getting rid of the sand 0.0


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

My post described it! Hold tip of vacuum tube about an inch from sand and gently swirl....makes a mini tornado that gets sucked up tube before it can cloud your water...not too hard.
Even simpler with an NPT because after awhile you don't vacuum anything up because your ecosystem utilizes it.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Gorgeous green you have in avatar mermaid! Gotta clean up my drool from keyboard now


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## XxXMermaidzXxX (Sep 28, 2012)

c; it's not actually mine but its one of my friends that posted it on Google images. She let me have 5 copies of that picture x3


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Well tell he's gorgeous...so little blue or black gives him that perfect green that is almost "true" green, not turquoise. Lucky you for having so many pics of him.
One of my goals as a breeder is to produce an even more "true" green....its a unicorn so atm, I am working with platinums, coppers, reds, oranges, and turquoise.

Sorry OP for hijacking your thread for a bit...


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