# The "Koi" Betta



## RedRunner

Can someone explain to me what a koi betta is. 

I get that it's a marble fish. 

Is there any specific genetics to get the dual colors or is it just random? 


Example would a regular marble give rise to a koi or is it koi only? 

_[Move if need be]_


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## BettaMummy87

Koi is just the term for a marbled betta that displays similar markings and colour variations as a classic koi, like the koi carp. 

You could, in theory, get them from crossing marbles to other colours, but it wouldn't be easy. It would be generation upon generation of effort to do it from scratch with no know koi in the line. Most of the time you'd get multis or 'normal' marbles. I should imaging it was done by breeding a marble to another colour until more than one colour popped up... *shrugs* Must've been done somehow. ^-^ But no, unless the marble had koi in its gemo and its mate did also, you wouldn't see koi in F1... If only one parent did you could breed a koi geno to a non koi geno, and breed their offspring to get koi. 

It doesn't breed true, so even if you breed a koi male to a koi female you cannot expect high numbers of koi babies. Koi x koi is, however, the only way to be sure there will be koi offspring. The trick is getting the smallish number of koi babies to survive


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## BlueLacee

BettaMummy87 said:


> Koi is just the term for a marbled betta that displays similar markings and colour variations as a classic koi, like the koi carp.
> 
> You could, in theory, get them from crossing marbles to other colours, but it wouldn't be easy. It would be generation upon generation of effort to do it from scratch with no know koi in the line. Most of the time you'd get multis or 'normal' marbles. I should imaging it was done by breeding a marble to another colour until more than one colour popped up... *shrugs* Must've been done somehow. ^-^ But no, unless the marble had koi in its gemo and its mate did also, you wouldn't see koi in F1... If only one parent did you could breed a koi geno to a non koi geno, and breed their offspring to get koi.
> 
> It doesn't breed true, so even if you breed a koi male to a koi female you cannot expect high numbers of koi babies. Koi x koi is, however, the only way to be sure there will be koi offspring. The trick is getting the smallish number of koi babies to survive


+1


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## MoonShadow

Yes a Koi betta is just a marble that displays similar color and pattern to a Koi fish. And since Marbles change so much and don't breed true, Koi is a hard line to focus on.


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## BettaMummy87

Would be cool to breed though. Maybe once I have a plakat line finished I might consider adding koi into my lines XD.


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## Vergil

MoonShadow said:


> Yes a Koi betta is just a marble that displays similar color and pattern to a Koi fish. And since Marbles change so much and don't breed true, Koi is a hard line to focus on.



I've been wondering about this since Koi types cost quite a pretty penny. Would my koi type change colors eventually?


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## BettaMummy87

Yeah, koi = marble (geneswise) so the colours will shift.


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## Vergil

Then lovely as they are, why do they cost so much...? They're going to change after all...


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## BettaMummy87

Because kois are one, pretty, two rare, and three have a lot of meaning in asian culture (I assume thats some of the point. I know koi markings all have meanings).

I reckon if you could find a way to breed a koi without the marbling kicking in (somehow disable the gene) you could make a *fortune*

Also, there is really no telling how much shift you will get with a marble. Some seem to change much more drastically than others.


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## MoonShadow

To go more in depth on the Koi versus Marble. Yes Koi are marble but Koi does not equal fancy marble. From what I understand Koi bettas are bettas that are cellophane with patches of color on them, normally black, red, yellow or orange. This is different from a regular fancy marble because Fancies have random coloring, not based upon a cellophane body. Does this make sense? 

Koi Betta









Fancy Marble










Also the more I research it seems as if "Koi" bettas hold their patterns better then standard marbles.


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## BettaMummy87

For the most part, yes i think Kois do. Though I've read about some changing to an all icky brown as the colours 'marble' into each other. I've always thought fancy marbles look so...messy. Koi, in comparisson, is pretty XD

I never noticed the cellophane to plight colour base. Well, not enough to register it. >.> I just look at multimarbles on cello and see a Koi, and at pale bodies with multi marbling and see a fancy. Subconcious must've made the leap! XD


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## Vergil

BettaMummy87: No need to go in depth in that. I'm Asian. I really love these koi types for more reasons than just pretty. But yeah, it does seem kind of a waste to pay for the novelty of owning a certain color pattern if it changes completely in a few weeks.

MoonShadow: Thank you for explaining! This is the one big reason I am put off from purchasing one. I'm definitely getting a koi type next~!


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## BettaMummy87

That will teach me not to look at the location


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## Vergil

BettaMummy87 said:


> That will teach me not to look at the location



LOL! xD 

Thanks for trying to answer to my queries though! ^_^


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## BettaMummy87

I only recnetly found out they had different meanings in my genetics research XD I found it fascinating! I am definitely picking my koi carefully when the kids are old enough for a pond


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## Vergil

I'm hoping to find a way to set up one of those large garden pots so I can grow some floaters and bamboo plants in my room so I can have my own koi pond in my room. 

ATM I'm busy so that'll have to wait but goodness that would be a dream. ^_^


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## Vergil

Something like this.


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## BettaMummy87

Oh wow thats an awesome idea! Would mean I could get them as babies and then move them to the pond when I get one xD


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## Vergil

Well, if the lighting isn't doable for my set up, I can settle for some really pretty fake flowers. Bet they'd look just as lovely if arranged right - I have an aunt who does arrangements with them. 

All that's left is to transfer their filters.


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## BettaMummy87

Artificals are so much better than they used to be and can look really great. Fingers crossed your real ones are doable though


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## Vergil

Becoming a fire hazard is the biggest problem with these tanks esp. since my apartment is old. They have very few outlets per room so I'm relying on extension cords. xP 

Best of luck finding the perfect koi type to you~


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## BalthySaurus

Huh... As I was reading this thread I started to wonder about my own betta... He's a marble, right? Do you think his colours are gonna change? He's mostly black and whit, but his scales shimmer green in the light and he now has red dots along his head that he didn't have before... Any thoughts?


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## BettaMummy87

Yeah, he looks like the black and whiter koi I have been looking at on Aquabid. Probably is a bit of marbling kicking in. Hes lovely though! :3


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## BalthySaurus

Yeah I fell in love the minute I saw him... He was at Petsmart, in a poor quality cup with really bad water, and his fins were badly damaged cause he was tail biting in there. You can see his fins still haven't fully grown back in yet. He's supposed to be a half-moon. It's only been a month though, so we'll see where the ext few months take us.  He's in a ten gallon filtered and heated tank now though so he's a spoiled rotten dude... Can't help but spoil him after what I saw him go through at Petsmart (horrible place tbh...) 

I just hope his colours don't change too much... I really like his colours.


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## BettaMummy87

And a petshop find to boot! Wow. You were both lucky! You got a gorgeous fish and he got a loving home like he deserves. I just wish I could rescue every male from them.... D: Though I would mostly have red/blue multis round here! Except this one guy who looks to be a light chocolate, but I don't have a spare tank for him.. i want him real bad. Keep going and seeing if they have managed to kill the poor guy yet. >.>;



Vergil said:


> Becoming a fire hazard is the biggest problem with these tanks esp. since my apartment is old. They have very few outlets per room so I'm relying on extension cords. xP
> 
> Best of luck finding the perfect koi type to you~


Just saw this, sorry! Thank you! And I know the feeling, we had to have an electrician in to do my house. We had one single socket in the master bedroom. That ain't gunna get us anywhere. XD


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## BalthySaurus

I totally have a spare tank you could have if you lived around here... But your location says you're in the UK so I don't think that'll be possible.  There's actually a much larger variety of betta colours here than there was a couple years ago. It used to just be the red/blue thing, but now I'm constantly seeing yellows, mustard gas, purples, blacks, and even some strange looking colours I've never been able to name. Sirius was a rare find though, I hardly ever see anything white, but I'm so glad I found him. He's my baby.


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