# Betta Is Not As Hungry and Lethargic



## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

For the last few days one of my bettas has been acting oddly. Over 9 months ago I brought him home as kind of an impulse buy. I was looking at bettas in a store, not planning on getting one since I already had two, but I felt so bad for him because he was so small, pale and he wasn't active at all. I really didn't think he'd survive the night but I thought I would at least try to save him. Long story short, I did manage to nurse him back to health and he's been living happily for the last 9 months. A few days ago though I noticed he began occasionally resting on the bottom of his tank. He doesn't do it all the time, he still hangs out by the top of the tank in his plant, but now he also rests on the bottom as well. He seems to go back and forth.

I became very concerned when he wasn't eating as much as he usually does. I feed my bettas by taking the top off of their tank and dropping in the pellets one or two at a time. He got used to the routine very quickly and is always very excited at feeding time, waiting for the pellets to drop into the water. I have never seen him turn down food.

For the last two days, I believe, he has been a lot less excited about food. He also goes back to the bottom after only a little more than half his meal. His diet has not changed in months and he usually gets 8 little pellets every single night. His water had been changed not too long ago so I didn't think that had anything to do with it, but I cleaned the tank and changed to water last night anyway. He has a heater and it is usually around 80 degrees.

I'm not sure if I'm worrying over nothing, but I'm getting very concerned about him. Does anyone have any ideas?

Housing 
What size is your tank? He lives in about 1.5 gallons I believe. He's not a very big betta though.
What temperature is your tank? Usually 80.
Does your tank have a filter? No.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No.
Is your tank heated? Yes.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Betta Bio-Gold
How often do you feed your betta fish? About 8 pellets every day.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? I don't have schedule for water changes but I do keep an eye on how dirty it is.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Tetra Aqua Safe.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? I haven't tested the water yet.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? He looks the same.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He's not as hungry and hangs out on the bottom more.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? About 2 or 3 days ago.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I cleaned the tank but didn't know anything else to do.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? When I got him he was very weak and I nursed him back to health.
How old is your fish (approximately)? I have had him for about 9 months.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Lethargy and loss of appetite can be signs of a whole bunch of different things. It's very hard to say based on that alone. Can you post any pictures of him?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I think I did this right... It's been awhile since I posted anything. I just took these.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Does anyone have any ideas? Anything that might help him?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

He definitely looks unhappy, and a bit thin. Take a look at this http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=73332 and see if anything else fits his symptoms.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Since I don't know for sure what is wrong with him my advice right now is to use Tetra Lifeguard. You can get it at Wal-Mart and it is about $5. It is mild enough that it can be used on new fish in quarantine just to make sure they don't have anything that could spread to the other fish, but it also treats a wide array of diseases. You can read about it here http://www.tetra-fish.com/Products/...ifeguard-aquarium-fish-disease-treatment.aspx

I recently brought a new boy home, he was having some swim bladder issues, was very lethargic, and would not eat. After 1 day of this he was eating and being much more active. Its worth a try for $5.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm thinking it might be velvet. I shined a flashlight on him and he does look like he has a very fine goldish dusting. Not a lot but still noticable if you shine a light on him. Does that sound like velvet? How should I go about treating him if it is velvet? Should I still see about getting that Lifeguard stuff?

Edit: I shined the light on him again and I definetly saw a few gold specks on his body. I've covered his tank to get it darker and I'm raising the temperature.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

A lot of bettas have an iridescence to them that shines gold. All of mine except my dark blue boy do. Velvet looks more grainy, and also he would probably be darting around. I would still recommend trying Lifeguard first.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

velvet looks like this


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Even if I saw some gold flecks on his body? I admit I've never looked at him with a flashlight and I've never seen a fish with velvet. Should I still cover the tank and raise the temperature or would that do more harm than good? And I will see if I can get some of the Lifeguard as soon as possible.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

I don't believe it is velvet, but if you can manage, take a pic of him while you are shining the flashlight on him, preferably a pic of his head/gills, as close as you can without it being blurry. Maybe have someone help with holding the flashlight lol.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I have tried getting a picture but all I can manage to get is a bright spot. I think you're right though. I don't think it's velvet, but now I have no idea what's wrong. His symptoms do fit stress but nothing much has changed. Could he have suddenly gotten stressed about something that was already there? And should I still keep him covered and raise the temperature? And I think I might be able to go to the store very soon. Is there anything else I should get that may help? And he will eat all his food if I float it down to him and he notices it. Should I make sure he eats all that he usually does?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Its probably not stress, unless for some reason his water parameters are off (like really high ammonia or something), but you do frequent water changes so I would assume they are ok. 

I would leave the temperature where it is for now. No need to cover him right now either. 

If you are going to walmart I also suggest buying Aquarium salt (found in the fish section) and Epsom salt (not scented, pure magnesium sulfate, found in the pharmacy section)

These will come in handy, Epsom salt helps treat internal issues and AQ salt helps treat external issues.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I have epsom salt and it would say something about being scented right? I can't find anything about be scented and it says 100% magnesium sulfate. I will get some aquarium salt. However, I have never used salt or medicine so can you give me instructions? I've managed to get a ride for tomorrow morning so I can look for the lifeguard stuff and get aquarium salt. I have some epsom salt now. Is there anything I should do with it?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Also is there a specific aquarium salt I should look for? Or are all aquarium salts the same?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Now he doesn't seem hungry at all. I managed to feed him one pellet and he ate another that I floated down but he won't eat any of the others.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm testing the water to see if I find anything and so far the ammonia level reads "safe" or .25. The nitrite and nitrate were both safe. The water was hard at 150. The alkalinity was ideal at 120-180 and the pH was alkaline at 7.8-8.4.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

The Epsom salt should be fine as long as it doesn't smell like anything to you lol. You wont need the Aquarium salt right away, its just a good thing to have on hand. My walmart only carries 1 kind, any kind is fine though.

Here's what I would do starting now,

-Water change, like 75%, just so you don't have to take him out and cause more stress. This is just in case there IS something strange going on with the water that is causing his problems.

-Add Epsom Salt, anywhere between 1 and 3 teaspoon PER GALLON, is safe. Start with 1 teaspoon. To do this without shocking him, dissolve 1 teaspoon in a small glass of water, when it is completely dissolved, add it slowly to the tank, pouring in a little bit every 10 minutes or so. If you ever need to use Aquarium salt you will use this same procedure.

-Tomorrow, when you get the Lifeguard, it will come in a tablet that says it is for a 5 gallon tank, break it in half, and then half again (so 4 little pieces) don't worry if they aren't all EXACTLY the same, you will put one of these pieces in his tank every day, for 5 days.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Sorry just saw that you were testing the water, I would still change at least 50%. Although .25 ammonia isn't life threatening, 0 is the ideal, plus just so its fresh for the next couple days. 

Don't worry about the hardness or ph, my water is very hard and my PH is off the chart. They adapt to this, and since you have had him awhile he is used to it.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, thank you for the help, I will do that tonight. I have water conditioner. Is that safe to use with the epsom salt?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Yep, always use your water conditioner no matter what else is being added. I'm sorry I cant tell you exactly what's wrong with him. I hope that whatever it is you caught it in the early stages and he will recover easily.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Do I change the water and add new epsom salt everyday? And do I need to do anything with the aquarium salt when I get it or is that in case of something else? Also he ate only a little tonight so I'm worried he's not eating enough. Is there any way to tempt him to eat a little more?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

The AQ salt would help with Ich if he ever gets it, or fin rot, things like that. Right now I don't think you need to do anything with it. You never want to use both AQ and Epsom salt at the same time. 

You don't need to change the water every day, but for right now I would say every 2 days. It will be important to change as close to 100% as possible, so I would cup him while you are changing it. Have you done that before? You just take a cup and catch him in it and lift him out. If you lower the cup in right behind them it kind of suctions them in, and then there is no chasing  I prefer to do this over netting them when I can, way less stressful.

You should be adding the medicine tablet every day, even on days you don't change the water, but when you DO change the water remember to add your Epsom salt back in too.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I try to cup them as much as I can. I even have a jar that is specifically the betta cup.  But I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do it this time as he's spending a lot more time on the bottom. I always try that first though. And he ate a lot less tonight. Is there a way to tempt him into eating more?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Drain some of the water first and then cup him if need be  

Some people suggest trying a bunch of different foods, dipping the food in garlic juice, wiggling it in front of them. Personally I haven't had any luck with any of that and have found if they don't want to eat, they very stubbornly will not eat. The fact that he is still eating at all is a good thing.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I'll see if I can get him to eat a little more later. I have just changed a large portion of the water and I'm dissolving epsom salt in a cup right now.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Great! The Epsom salt is thought to be very therapeutic for them. It helps with internal issues. 

How is him swimming? Does he struggle? Does he randomly dart around? Is he still upright?

Also, are his gills moving normal or quickly?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

He swims just fine. Doesn't dart around and still upright. The only problems I can see are the lethargy and loss of appetite.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm not positive but he may be having a little trouble breathing on the bottom of the tank. He swims up to get air just fine but when he's on the bottom it seems as if he's doing extra work using his gills and he opens and closes his mouth. Is that something all bettas do when they lay on the bottom of the tank?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I've watched him a little more and he does seem to breath better when he's near the top of the tank in his plant.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I tried to feed him a little more. He ate it but then he spat it out.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

He seems to be doing a little better today. I got him to eat a little this morning. I went and got Lifeguard. It isn't Tetra, though. It's Jungle, but seems to be the exact same thing. Do I have to dissolve the tablet before putting it in like with the salt or just put it in?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

You can just put it in. Jungle and Tetra are the same brand now, one company bought the other so no worries you got the right stuff 

How is he tonight?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I dissolved it first just to be safe. He's much better tonight! He's still not his completely active self, but I wasn't expecting such a large turnaround in one day. He's been resting a lot today, but it's been in his plant more than the bottom of the tank. And he was a little excited for food tonight. He only ate six of his usual eight, but I did feed him some this morning.  I'll give him more medicine tomorrow and then do a water change with more epsom salt. Should I use the same amount of salt or a little more? And on the medicine box it says to treat for five days, do I do that or does he need more?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Just stay with the 1 teaspoon of salt for now. I would treat him for the 5 days, and if he's his old self then you can stop using the medicine. Glad he's looking better already


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, thank you so much for your help and I'll keep you updated about his condition.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

You're welcome, and please do!


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I am seeing some improvement.  He's still not active but he stays up in his plant mostly instead of the bottom and when he does go to the bottom he goes back to his plant soon after. He doesn't have his old appetite, he does eat, but he doesn't seem like he wants to eat a lot at one time and he does spit a little out once in a while. I've been trying to feed him a little a few times a day to get more food in him. Today will be the fourth day of the medicine. I changed his water and added new salt on Saturday and will be changing it again today, every two days like you suggested. Also, I decided to use about 1.5 teaspoons of salt because his tank is 1.5 gallons.
I do have a question though. At this point should I be seeing any more improvement or is this rate normal? And what do I do if he's not normal after the fifth day of medication? Is what I'm doing taking care of his problem?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Also, I do need to clean my two other betta's tanks and my one little guppy tank. However, I am a little concerned that whatever he has, they will catch if I use my betta jar with them too. I normally use the same jar with all of them, rinse it and let it sit before using it with another fish. I've never had any problems with it before but now that one of them is sick I'm worried that it may not be enough. And then I'm also concerned that whatever I use to clean it beyond rinsing it will leave some small trace and poison them or something. For now I can just use another cup or jar but I would like to be able to use it again because it's a really handy little jar. Do you have any suggestions about cleaning it properly and not risking the others' health?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

One more question. At what point should I consider adding more salt? I realize he will not be completely better after only a few days but if this goes on for a while when should I start adding more?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

It is good that he is hanging out at the top instead of lying on the bottom. Since we don't know exactly what is wrong with him it is hard to say how long it will take to recover. 

I would not increase the salt for now. I would finish the 5 days of medication, and after that give him clean water, no lifeguard and no salt, and see how he is doing with that. If he is still acting ill we will have to re think the possibilities of what could be wrong. 

As for the jar, if its glass you could boil it in between uses. I clean my stuff with super hot water and vinegar. Or you could use a separate jar/cup for the others.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Today was the last day of the medication. He is still by his plant but he really isn't moving around much. I am also worried because I haven't gotten him to eat much today.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

He ate a little this morning and today I'm going to give him clean water with nothing in it like you said.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Ok, give that a day or two, and see how he acts.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

It's been about a day and nothing has really changed. He hasn't eaten anything yet today though.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I think he's actually getting a little worse. He hasn't eaten anything today. I'm not sure what I should do now.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Here's a few more pictures taken today.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

If he's the same tomorrow I'm going to put the salt back in and see if that helps.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

What else do you have medication-wise? At this point I would probably recommend an antibiotic.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

All I have for medication is the Lifeguard. Where would I get an antibiotic?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Kanaplex is the best but you would have to order it online, otherwise I would recommend Maracyn Plus which is available at petsmart


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I'll try and get some tomorrow. Should I change his water and put salt in tomorrow as well or will that interfere with the meds?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

You can use the salt also


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I'll get some of the medicine today.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm having trouble finding Maracyn Plus. Is Maracyn-Two ok?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

It's worth trying if you can't find the other


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

So today I got some Tetra freeze dried bloodworms. I thought it would be a nice treat once and awhile and just in case my sick betta would eat at least something if I tried giving them to him. But now I'm reading all these stories about bettas getting bloated and constipated so I'm not sure now.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I decided to try and give him a little bloodworm to see if he'd eat it. Apparently he really likes them because he won't touch his pellets but goes for the bloodworms! I only gave him like a little over one worm because I wasn't sure how much to give him but it is the only thing he'll eat right now.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

That's great! Blood worms aren't a great source of nutrition, so keep trying the pellets, but Im glad he ate a treat  What did you decide medication-wise?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I couldn't find Maracyn Plus but we did get Maracyn Two and have started treatment. How many bloodworms should I try and feed him if he keeps eating them? I don't want him to get bloated or constipated and I've never fed bloodworms before.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Please check out this link, scroll down to the salt bath part. I am trying this with one of my boys as we speak. It is referring to Aquarium salt not Epsom salt (just fyi.) Could be a good thing to try for your guy? http://www.algone.com/articles/fish-health/aquarium-fish-dips

As far as the bloodworms go, most people feed just 1 a week as a treat. Since he isn't eating anything else you could do a couple a week, but he really needs to eat pellets. Feeding bloodworms all the time would be like you eating chips and candy all the time. You wouldn't starve but you wouldn't be healthy either.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I know that bloodworms aren't healthy but they seem to be the only thing he'll eat at the moment. I'll keep trying pellets but I figure something is better than nothing. As for the bath, I might try it. How did it go for your guy?


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

I am dealing with a parasite problem, my boy is itching, scraping against the bottom, dashing around, etc, but during the bath he was acting totally calm and normal for the first time in 2 weeks. I followed the directions exactly, 4 tsp/gallon for 30 min. 

I thought it might help your guy because it said on the site 

Fish stress is relieved and the organism can fight off diseases easier which aides in the recovery. 

This bath will also stimulate the protective slime coat, which will further enhance the fish's' ability to cope with the disease.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, I'll do some research into it. In the meantime how many bloodworms should I let him eat? I realize they aren't healthy and I will keep trying pellets but right now he doesn't pay them any attention. I figure any food is better than no food but I have no idea when to cut him off.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

hmm, I guess you could let him eat 1 a day, but always try the pellets first


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

I'll be sure to always try the pellets first throughout the day, but if he hasn't eaten all day then I'll give him one.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Here he is today. The picture makes it look like he has a red patch on his side, but I can't see it. Does he look a little bloated or is it just me?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, now it definitely looks like something is up.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Now he's lying on the bottom some.  I think he's getting sicker.


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

He passed away.  Thank you for all your help.
SIP Frost


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your loss? Is he your only Betta?


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Thanks, I have two bettas now.


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Really? I'd love to see some pictures


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## Jovancheck (Sep 4, 2013)

Sorry for your loss


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Here's a few pictures of them I took just a couple days ago. The peachy one is Danny and the red one is Phox.


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## CoolishPrune3 (Sep 4, 2013)

Ooh. Ilike them both. Bold red and the fins on the orange one are spectacular.  Good luck!


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Thanks, I'm sure they appreciate the praise. Good luck with your fish too.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

Im so sorry, you did everything you could have. The reason he started to look bloated near the end was because his organs were starting to fail


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry for your loss, make sure you disinfect the tank and everything in the tank if you will use it for another betta. And do not use anything from his tank for other two bettas so you don't contaminate it. Your other two are gorgeous .


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

blufish, thank you for all your help. I'm sure it made his passing a little easier.
ANHEL, what's the best way to go about disinfecting the tank? And is there anything from inside it I can disinfect too? It was just the heater, thermometer and a plastic plant. Or are those like permanently infected or something? I plan to boil some of the other stuff like the betta jar I keep them in while I clean their tanks and the little cooking thermometer I use to get the temperature the same.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

This is recommended to me from someone who does it ,and i did a few times disinfect my tank with the bleach. I didn't do for anything else though. But look like many people recommending to use the bleach. Just read it really carefully. Make sure you don't disinfect anything porous with the bleach.

I did boiled my rocks a few times long time ago but now i am afraid to recommend it as some people saying that it can explode. So if you ever decide to do it i guess be very careful. 

If you absolutely don't want to use bleach. You can rinse everything with boiled water and vinegar 50/50 . Leave it in the sun for a few wks. A lot of aquatic diseases are sensitive to dryness so simply leaving the tank dry for a couple weeks will help sanitize things. 

But If you are sanitizing after a disease outbreak, I would do a bleach soak+through drying.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So sorry i am embarrassed i forgot to post the link that i meant for the disinfection. Am i too late? Do you still need it ? SORRY


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

If you have the link I'd appreciate it. I'll probably try bleaching it and leaving it for a long time. I'm mostly worried that I won't wash the bleach out enough and poison whatever fish I put in next.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Just wash it really thoroughly . I did it myself and i was afraid so i wash it literally million times and then i left it for a few wks to dry out . Be careful with porous stuff, i don't think you can disinfect anything porous with the bleach. If you have porous decorations you can leave them just to dry out for a month or so. Aquatic diseases are sensitive to dryness so simply leaving it to dry will help sanitize things. 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=2036738


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## Aquatail (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, thanks.


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