# First time spawning help?



## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I am currently trying to spawn my male and female VT's. It's my first time trying this. I've had betta's for a while now but only recently have become interested in breeding. 

Currently, the male has made a HUGE bubble nest and the female is showing the vertical bars. But there's a problem. They've been playing 'follow the leader' for almost two whole days now. @[email protected] 
Should I be worried? Or is this normal? And is there anything else I can do to help? 

All comments/ help would be appreciated.


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

Hmm... No one's been harmed? With the last pair I tried to breed, they just never took interest in each other. They were together for about two days as well before I decided that they weren't going to breed. Maybe it's the same situation, they're just too buddy buddy.

By the way, most people here are going to tell you not to breed veiltales unless you have somewhere to home them all.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Could you tell us more about your set up? How long did you condition the fish? What is your spawning set up like? Size of tank, height of water, temperature, decorations, additives??

Do you have all the equipment you need to feed and house the fry?

Like Chelseak said most of us try to discourage VT breedings unless you are aware that the fry will be hard to place, some people can't even give VT fry away.. they're just so common. But as long as you realize all this and have a plan for the fry you shouldn't get a hard time.

As far as "follow the leader" could you explain exactly what they are doing?


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I have a 10 gallon tank filled up to about 6 inches or so. I have a heater set at 82F. There are tons of plastic floating plants for the female to hide in (7-9 of them), a small hollow treasure chest, and a greek pillar. They've been conditioned for 2 weeks, feeding them bloodworms and microworms. 

As for the behavior, the male will flare and strut at the female. She shows some interest and follows him around. But whenever she gets close to the nest the male chases her off. And she goes and hides.  



Yes, I have many friends who would like to have a betta or three  (That's my reason for spawning them.)


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep.. that sounds like normal behavior to me. He's not finished with his nest so he's not ready to spawn yet. Just leave them be (as long as he's not attacking her).


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Yeah I noticed that he keeps on adding to the nest. So he will spawn when he's ready? haha. 
No one's getting shredded either, so I'll leave them be.  

Thanks for all the help!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

No problem and good luck. It sounds like you have a nice peaceful pair.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks! Yeah they're relatively calm.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Do you have gravel in the tank?? 
I wanted to mae sure because it seems it's decorated, the bottom should be bare.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Should be bare? oohhh. So should I take out the gravel? 
The male already made his nest and I don't want to disturb it and ruin it. :/


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

At this point I wouldn't take it out. You'll have to start the entire process over again. I don't think it'll be an issue but just be diligent with tank cleaning once the fry are free swimming.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Spawning tanks should always be bare bottomed. When they spawn the eggs fall to to bottom and if there's gravel the male won't be able to retrieve them and place them in the next. They usually catch a few while falling but most of them go to the bottom.
You should research a bit more before letting them spawn.
There's good info here: http://bettysplendens.com


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Ok! Sorry!~ I'll be sure to do that next time. But gravel would cut down on fry population right? But I guess if those few fry died then I would end up with no bettas.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Maybe you should wait to spawn them until everything is set up and you know everything about breeding you possibly can.

What food do you have for the fry?


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## thestompa (Feb 4, 2011)

Veiltail? My last veitail spawning and they end with dead. I hope you will not end like me.
Good luck with your breeding.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I have Hikari First Bites. It says it's 54% protein so I thought it would be fine. Is it ok to give them? 
The only thing I didn't know about was to take out the gravel. Is that really so bad on my part? :/ 

Buuuttt looks like I won't be having fry anyways... dad just keeps following mom around... :|


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Dry food are not a good starter food for fry, at least not by themselves because some fry will refuse to eat it and die. Live food are the best food, e.g. baby brine shrimp, vinegarl eels, microworms, etc. 
I think it wold be best if you separated the pair, researched a bit more and try again once you have your setup prepared. 
You shouldn't breed your betta where they live because they are very territorial and they could turn on the other and kill them. It all can go smoothly for a couple of days and then someone looses it and attacks the other fish. Not pretty, there was a newbie here who went againt everyone's advice and his female ended up dead. Besides, you will need a completely separate tank to raise all those fry because they need to be left alone there after they are freeswimming,
If you comdition and aclimate your pair properly, you can have a spawn where neither fish gets hurt although it is common for them to nip each other a bit.
Anyway, the link I gave you has great info on breeding and raising bettas.
Here it is again:
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/catview.imp?catid=855
This other one I found very helpful when I started because it goes in detail about the setup and behavior of the fish while mating:
http://www.flippersandfins.net/BettaBreedingArticle.htm
Best of luck and don't hessitate to ask questions.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree with 1fish...you will be fine with the gravel-I would leave it...you may have some egg loss but not enough to matter....I spawn all of mine with sand or fine gravel substrate and full to the top with water and have never had any problems.....its just easier for first time breeder to deal with bare bottom tanks...

You will have better success with live foods for the fry...I would get some BBS eggs and get a hatchery going....since they haven't spawned yet....you have time.....you will get much better results with live food for at least the first month....

Depending on how many fry you end up with at the 1 month mark- you may or may not need to get a second 10g to separate the larger fry or a 20g would be even better.....


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

If you can get your hands on live foods that'll be the best. If not a good second place would be frozen Baby brine shrimp. You can get them at your local petsmart and probably petco also. I've found that most fry will not take hikari first bites, but some will. I actually use early introduction of non-live and dried foods as an early culling method (even though I do still feed some live foods) because the ones who are smart enough to eat the dried foods are usually going to be the ones who make it to adult hood and grow the fastest.

My biggest fry were the ones who knew to eat anything and everything at an early age.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

I see! I don't want to be the idiot here and end up with a dead fish like that other guy. :-? So I'll go with your guys' advice. Thanks so much! I'll get some live food for the fry when I get back to spawning. I might just leave the gravel there. I don't need every single betta to live, though it would be ideal. 
Thanks for the links! I'm going to read them now.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

If you are able to take the gravel out, I highly recommend you do so. Not only does it make it easier for the male to pick the eggs up, but it helps to have a bare bottom tank when raising the fry. The water stays cleaner and is easier to maintain. When raising fry you really want the water parameters to be basically perfect so they can develop properly. If you end up with deformed fry you will have to cull (kill) them.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

Yeah, I decided to just re-start on them. I'm re-conditioning them now and I just cleaned out the tank. No gravel, just some floating plants and a heater. 
Is a filter necessary? Or can I just clean the tank with a siphon? All I have is a filter that sticks to the side of a tank- no power filters.


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