# which male, and a question



## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

since i am getting ready to spawn again (not any time soon) i still need a heater, snail, (live) plants, filter, and food. which male should i spawn, am getting a HM female from AB. 
male #1, OHM red marble male, Puddles. active, healthy, and a great bubble nester, bad side; he is pretty aggresive:








male #2, HMPK multi-color (?) male, active, healthy, not much into nesting, bad side; he has one big ear, the other side isn't fully a big ear:









question: when there big enough, could i put sparta with them? if i could, would it help him/her grow? thanks


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Male 2. Doesn't breeding rose tails or feather fin bettas often result in negative effects, and deformities


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

male 1 isn't a rose nor feather he is an overhalfmoon, haha


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

He's a rose :/ 

Honestly I can't tell you since their faults are not worth breeding to me :/


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

WHAT!?!? all this time i thought he was an over halfmoon, NOOOOOOOO
the only other males i have is a VT and a CT, am totally not breeding VT though. 
am going to either stick with my HMPK, CT, or getting another betta ( i have no space for another)

also i messed up the question (lol) i mean _"when the fry are big enough, could i put sparta, my stunted fry, with them? if i can will it help him/her grow?"_


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If you have no space for another adult... why are you going to breed?


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

am not going to keep all of them (fry), well i have containers, but am not putting them (pairs) in that. and i never said it is going to be in a week or so, it is going to take me awhile, as i meant to say i have no space for another, at the moment. by 3 or longer months i could probably get my breeding and all ready.
sorry for misleading, basically i cannot spawn at the moment. i was just checking which male would be better. am still getting things together.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

My exact thoughts mrvampire. Grow out tanks should be a minimum of 20 gallons, and when taking into consideration, you could end up with lots of males which means that you could have 50-70 little cups to hold them in. How would you not have enough space for another male if you could comfortably enter a breeding situation

EDIT. just saw your new post. Sorry


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Well in three months they might start getting too old. Best just to buy a pair in three months with reputable genetics and some standing in the IBC.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i never want to join the IBC (reasons):
.i don't want to pay membership stuffy
.am only 14
.nothing is EVER in IL
.and i don't think i got what it takes for being in the largest international betta stuff

and also, not all males would need to be seperated at one time. and someone has there spawn together for like 4 months or something. and i yes am still pulling things together.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Then really what's the point? I mean breeding bettas just to breed? You have to have a goal to work for. Be it fins or color or creating something new. 

And you really have not researched into the IBC enough if those are your reasons. 

Joining the IBC is only going to help you regardless if you show or not. 

Also one member, isn't you. Betta spawns vary greatly depending on strain, tail type, genetics, tank size, water conditions, space etc. I take every spawn I have individually because not all work the same. I've had some live together their whole lives, and I've had some need to be seperated under two months of age.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i see, and i never really looked at the IBC page really. i really can't describe why i like betta breeding, i don't know why. i just had so much joy and fun when i did. i also (i guess) i wanted to get some money off the thing that i love, and . i don't know. my goal was being just a normal, local, small betta breeder and have awesome, quality betta's and the FIRST in Illinois. i didn't want to be something big like you, and remember am just 14 i don't know everything, as i say am still learning, even though i have been with the betta craze for only a year, unlike you, you been with this betta craze for years!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Lol I'm not THAT big lol. I'm still barely making any progress into nice fish for show. I'm just a local hobbyist breeding for nice fish for showing and helping others. Plus the IBC offers more than just shows... seriously FLARE magazine? AWESOME!! And the handbook is a great resource for getting everything started. 

Keep in mind I've been in this breeding game for three years... I'm only 15 lol. You have to start somewhere but start right. Get some goals. Example, my whites aren't just "Oh nice fish lets spawn and sell." I REALLY want to work on this line for generations. My current goals are: amazing whites, multi based purples, fancy marbles, platinum marbles, and nice purebred VTs (the reason I tell newbs to stay away from them is because they lack the general knowledge to create a pure line). Stick with your goals and make your set up work. With a couple plastic tubs you can spawn and raise a lot of nice fish. It's all about getting started, tweeking your set up, getting good fish from the start, having goals, and being patient. Those two weeks of conditioning are going to be nerve wracking. You'll want to put them together and get a spawn ASAP but if you wait you'll end up with more fry and a larger survival rate. 

Sorry for wall of text lol but my basic advice for starting right.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i have loads of plastic tubs (a good one for a grow-out) but my dad is using it, for feeding snakes in it. i don't think it is good any more from snakes, dead mice, feces, and mice blood on it. but is a 27 tall gallon good for a grow out? my #1 priorities are getting a heater, a male now, and foods.
also i was working with the red head gene, but the mom died, and sparta is stunted. i was trying to get a double tail red head, but i failed on it (dad died too). i really want to work with anything with big ears.
but you might not be THAT big but you still have a good thing going there.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Keep listening to MrV. He'll steer you in the right direction.


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## Junglist (Feb 23, 2012)

I didn't know you need to join IBC to breed? I breed fish cause it's a fun hobby and to support LPS and fish lovers. Every breeder has there first to live and learn from our mistakes, I'm sure they created this forum for people in need of help. I bred my first betta when I was almost 14 and didn't know what I was doing till nice people from the pet store helped me out.

Go ahead Betta Lover just remember your taking full responsibility for your betta fry's


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

betta lover1507 said:


> i have loads of plastic tubs (a good one for a grow-out) but my dad is using it, for feeding snakes in it. i don't think it is good any more from snakes, dead mice, feces, and mice blood on it. but is a 27 tall gallon good for a grow out? my #1 priorities are getting a heater, a male now, and foods.
> also i was working with the red head gene, but the mom died, and sparta is stunted. i was trying to get a double tail red head, but i failed on it (dad died too). i really want to work with anything with big ears.
> but you might not be THAT big but you still have a good thing going there.


My friend gave me a small glass tank that they kept a snake in. I bleached and cleaned it out really well and I'll be using it for spawning.

Hit craigslist and thrift stores for tanks. I've seen a couple around here selling complete 20 gallon set ups for $15. 


dramaqueen said:


> Keep listening to MrV. He'll steer you in the right direction.


That's the mission lol.



Junglist said:


> I didn't know you need to join IBC to breed? I breed fish cause it's a fun hobby and to support LPS and fish lovers. Every breeder has there first to live and learn from our mistakes, I'm sure they created this forum for people in need of help. I bred my first betta when I was almost 14 and didn't know what I was doing till nice people from the pet store helped me out.
> 
> Go ahead Betta Lover just remember your taking full responsibility for your betta fry's


You don't have to but it shows how interested in them you are. Gives a good standard and places you around tons of people willing to help.

Again we ALL have mistakes. I've had my fair share of them but I learned quickly and now I have a ton of fry and several breeding pairs ready to produce more.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i forgot to mention a filter though, but thanks.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Ebay has a ton of nice sponge filters for cheap AND I've found nice, reliable heaters for only $10. Not those preset pieces of junk, real heaters AND free shipping!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree that being an IBC member can help a lot. But I also agree that it's not the only way to go about it - specially when not showing.

Male #1 - possibly a rose (not to clear)
breed to female with less ray branching - say 2- 4 branching, but has pointed caudal edges (super delta). This should reduce rose defect possibilities.

Male #2 has good dorsal branching - but poor dorsal form. Further he has rounded caudal edges, 4 rays, and too narrow of a ventral. Last, he his body is too long for a PK. Try to find a DT female in the hope of improving his overall form. Otherwise, don't breed him.

If you don't want to go through the trouble of line breeding, simply get a pair of good looking bettas. Look at the IBC form standard (bettysplendens.com) as a guide when you're choosing your bettas. Make sure that you can rehome the fry.


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

I picked #1 cuz hes cute - shows what I know about betta breading hahaha


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

well i was thinking about spawning the female in my avi, she is going to be shipped to me soon. i have no idea what she is a delta or a HM. i have a black orchid CT, but his webbings appear to be "dented" then there is my VT, which i refuse to spawn.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

That female is ok but slightly unbalanced. As I have said before don't even plan spawns yet. Learn what to do first.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i said i was thinking, am focusing on equipment. where could i buy cheap vinegar eels? and what other foods that are good, cheap, and easy?


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Microworms are realllllllly easy to keep and culture..I've had the same culture going since November, I just re-culture to keep it going, even though the babies arent eating them anymore


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I can supply you with three kinds of cultures (see my thread).

Although easy is nice, if you don't want to do a lot of work then fish is the wrong hobby for you. I easily spend 4 hours a day in the fish room (good thing I do online school...).


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i mean how do you culture them? 
like, how big of an container? how do you feed (the culture)? what temp, etc
but thanks Mr.V the thing is, you are telling me not to breed isn't it? you haven't told me directly though, sorry if am wrong, it is just how many times you tell me the bad side of things. i know that it takes much time, i know it takes patience, etc
i actually know a fish breeder (he bred betta's, dicus, angelfish, and other) well he stopped breeding, but he knows things still, i could ask him as well


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

All directions are included but the things you need are:

Oatmeal and cornmeal
Bakers yeast
A couple of plastic containers
A spray bottle of dechlorinated water

I'm not saying don't but I think you really need to consider what you're doing. It's not easy and like I've said; research before even buying the materials.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

i haven't really even bought anything yet, only the female. well because i though she looked really awesome though. the 10 was my brothers, 27 i really don't remember how i got it really. also can you give me steps on when to put what and how the amount? thanks


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Mr. V just wants to help. he helps me with my questions. :V he breeds for form and fin quality, so he looks for that in fish. the female you bought is beautiful in color, but she may not be in finnage, and he looks at that, rather than color. so, it makes sense that he'd point out all the flaws in finnage in any betta you show him. if he says a betta isn't worth breeding, though, there HAS to be something wrong with it. dip in the head, tumor you may not see, kink in the spine... things like that, or it may be a rose tail, which are known to pass on all kinds of problems, not just in finnage(which is often way heavy).

personally, i think your new female is lovely. she has great color, and obvious breeding/submission bars. i don't know much about finnage, though. x:


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

She IS a very nice female and I WOULD breed her but I know how to counteract faults. 

Example: her dorsal is too thin and her anal fin is too long. I would pair her to a clean blue with a wide dorsal and short anal fin.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

oh, okay. i have 2 CT females, but i don't think there good either:
kristie, CT blue marble:








and Lacey, wild type CT:








but i think they have issues with webbings though


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I don't breed CTs but stay away from them like the plague without an R/O unit or advanced knowledge on their water requirements.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

oh, okay. but anyways, what kind of male i will look for if i want to breed the female on my avi? bigger dorsal? like a DBT? so like a PK DBT? or something. i think she is very great. and am just a beginner to though, am just lucky for my second time breeding to breed a "quality" betta.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

This is the kind of fish you want to breed. Again, join the IBC and read the standards.

Also it's DT not DBT. If you want to be taken seriously as a breeder you'll need to learn proper acronyms and proper color names.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_archive_item&fwbettashmp1253200383


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

woah is gorgeous!! but thing am not allowed to buy things out of the country. i'll have to wait when i could get some money and see a good male in the country. but i could see where your going with the male though.
ok i registered in the IBC, now i have to wait for a activation email


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

You have to email them directly. You have no access until you pay the $15 for full membership.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

wait what?
i don't have 15 dollars, would i have to pay monthly or something??


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

It's $15 for a year.


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

oh thank goodness, i could see what i could do


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Wow thats it?? Huh..Maybe I should join too LOL.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I recommend it lol.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Doesn't it have to do with age though?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Not by much. It's like $20 for over 16.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay I'll have to ask. Thanks . Very reasonable and very rewarding!


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