# Not sure what else to do...



## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Hi all. I have had bettas in the past with no issues, but am having issues now.

I currently have an elephant ear, Chi, in an Aquafarm 3G tank with a 50W heater set to 80 (smallest 'good' heater the store had at the time). The first day and a half, Chi was just as happy as he was in the pet store. Now, day 4, his fins are clamped, and seem to be worse every day. On day 2 he was pale, so I did a 100% water change and made sure I rinsed everything with hot water and set everything back up and got him back in as before. I even called the pet store I bought everything from yesterday, and they suggested using some Bettafix and aquarium salt, that he sounded stressed. So I got said items and have been using Bettafix the last few days. I haven't changed his water again, because I'm afraid that the constant changings are adding to his stress. I tried to leave him be yesterday, in hopes that he could relax and destress. Today, he's still the same. So I called the pet store again and spoke to their "aquatics specialist" and that guy was a joke. Told me the 8 oz container they come in is the perfect size and that they don't need anything bigger...I disagree and find that cruel. So I hung up. I decided to try putting him back in the container and floating it in the tank so he'd stay warm to see if he'd bounce back with the smaller container and still water. I'm about to tear the Aquafarm down and return it for another tank because this is just irritating me. I've NEVER had this many issues with a betta before. This is fish #2 for this tank, and I haven't had the tank 2 weeks yet. We also didn't have a heater for the first fish, so we're guessing that aided in his demise...

Looking for any help or advice. We've already spent about $150 between the tank and all the supplies...trying to keep it from getting too out of hand.

1st day pic and today pic posted as well.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

First thing, stop using bettafix, it's been known to causes issues with the labyrinth organ and as he is clamped but not obviously sick it's not helping anything. It's also not the best to be using salt and meds at the same time, are you dissolving the salt in a cup of tank water before slowly introducing it little by little? Also do you have a thermometer in the tank to be sure it's not being over heated? 50w is too strong for a 3g, 25w would be better. How often are you changing his water and are you remembering to condition your water, and what water conditioner are you using? Are you acclimating him back into his water after his changes?

Check if your petstore does free water testing (most apparently do, mine doesn't >.>) and bring a sample in, there might be something off. Remember to ask for the numbers, not just an "it's ok". 

Seeing that this is the second fish having issues in your tank, it might be something wrong with something you have in there. Are there any ornaments in it? If so, take them out and smell them, check them for bubbling paint or excessive slime. I see you have a plant in there, is that an anubias? If so make sure it's rhizome is not buried else it will rot.

As you can tell from their "aquarium specialist" most stores are not very educated in proper fish housing and care.


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## Bettalovinmomma (May 28, 2014)

I'm sorry about your guy. No advice as you saw I'm kinda going through the same thing. Hope both our guys will be fine. 

What type heater did you buy?


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

The 50w was the smallest one they had that was adjustable. Will the higher wattage hurt the fish? From what I've read it doesn't, but I could be wrong. I've had him 4 days and have changed the water 100% twice (every other day). I do have a thermometer and it's showing it's staying a steady 80. I had it at 78, but turned it up in case it was too low for him. Our house is only set to about 70, so I knew he needed a heater. I am conditioning my water. I'm using the D-Klor that came with the tank which eliminates the chlorine in the water. When I tested the water yesterday with the test strips, everything was where it was supposed to be, Nitrite and Nitrates were at 0 and ph was in the 6.0-6.5 range. There is a cave in there that I purchased. When I changed the water two days ago I rinsed it with hot water and let it air dry before putting it back in. I inspected it for stink and flaking paint but didn't see/smell anything. No slime either. I'm really thinking it's the stupid tank. Like I said, I've had bettas in the little 1g walmart tanks for long periods of time with the absolute basic care and never had any issues. The one time I try a fancy/nicer setup, it seems to backfire on me. At least this one is hanging on longer than the last fish. That one just up and died with no warning signs. The flow of water from the upper portion of the tank is surprisingly strong, and I'm wondering if that's the problem, but not sure. My husband is getting frustrated that we spent so much money just to have fish no lasting...and I'm getting frustrated because I've done this before with no issues, but this time nothing seems to be working, except the wheat grass is growing like a weed...


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/heater...-catid-300016?var_id=36-16561&_t=pfm=category

This is the heater I purchased. Great reviews and I've seen numerous betta owners using this model.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Oh, and I have a live plant in the tank as well. Should be visible in the first picture.


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## Bettalovinmomma (May 28, 2014)

That's the exact heater I bought too. Now I'm really wondering if it is the heater. I have the 25 watt Hydor Theo in my other tanks, even in a 1 gallon, and have not had problems. 

Kinda funny thing (well not really) is that my guy I bought from walmart to try to save, I didn't think he would last and he's doing wonderfully. This guy that's having the same problems as yours seemed nice and healthy when I brought him home.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

We've gotten these guys from Petco, thinking they'd be better than Walmart, but at this point if Chi doesn't make it (which will be heartbreaking) I'm done with Bettas for a while...

The heater is keeping it a constant temp, so I don't think it's the heater, and I've read other betta owners using that size heater in even smaller tanks than mine with no issues. We're just getting frustrated and don't know what else to do. I hate playing the waiting game. I'm trying not to bother Chi too much as that can add stress to him, but I miss seeing his pretty big fins.

It's snowing here and I have a toddler, otherwise I'd be driving to the pet store to figure this out, but I really don't want to schlep the baby through the frigid temps. The "specialist" I spoke to on the phone pissed me off by saying bettas love tiny bowls... He acted as though he didn't really know anything, but kept saying the container they sell them in is a perfect size for a betta. Don't really trust what the guys says.


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## Bettalovinmomma (May 28, 2014)

Riley (my problem guy) is from Petco too. It is definitely frustrating not knowing what is going on. He is also in a 3 gallon with a silk plant and some glass beads. We got him Monday with one of those mini flat hydor heaters because I hadn't gotten my other 25 watt Hydor heater yet. Had a credit at Petco, so decided to go with the Aqueon one since that was the smallest adjustable heater they had. The aquatic guys there don't know much either. He did say the 50 watt would heat up faster, but when it was at temp it would shut off. Haven't had a problem with that, just thinking maybe it heated the water too fast. I'm at a loss also..........


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I turned the heater on the day before and let the water reach the desired temp before even buying this Chi. So he hasn't had a big temperature change because I let him acclimate for almost an hour or so before I moved him into the tank.the first day and a half he swam around, flared, are and all that good stuff and then he started getting clamped fins and they are getting smaller as the days go by. After I changed his water on day 2, when he was looking pale, his color had come back but his fins are still clamped. When I called psycho yesterday, the girl was really helpful. She suggested changing the water again since it helped the first time. Filling a 3g tank everyday though is going to get expensive... I put in a few pieces of aquarium salt, but not sure if it helped...


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Bettas prefer little to no current, so it might just be stressing him out, but for your other one to have died quickly makes me cautious. Personally I'd remove him from the tank and set up something else till he seems to be doing better. Then you can try again. If it happens again then you know it's something about the tank.

You need to be testing for ammonia more than the other two, as doing 100% water changes removes it before it gets chance to break down to the other two. Also, you should test your tap water, as sometimes you can have ammonia in the water. I'd also upgrade your water conditioner to Seachem Prime or API Stress Coat+. Prime locks ammonia for 24 hours and both of them neutralize heavy metals and chlorine in the water.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

DO NOT JUST PUT SALT CHUNKS IN.

You must dissolve them first in a cup of tank water before adding them, and you need to follow the directions on the box!

I have API AQ salt, and the directions read "Add 1/2 rounded teaspoon per Gallon"


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

What's the difference between the API Stress Coat and the API Splendid Betta Complete Water Conditioner? Just wondering if there was a difference, because I've used the Splendid in the past with bettas in college and never had issues. Is the Stress Coat a better version of it?


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## Bettalovinmomma (May 28, 2014)

I did a w/c this morning before coming to work and added some aq salt. Hoping it helps some. He is still swimming and eating (at least was this morning).


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Yea, I think so. When I was given a betta earlier this yea I was given that stuff, but I chose the benefits of the Stress Coat and only learned later that they were the same brand. Stress Coat has Aloe Vera, which helps reduce stress. As far as I can tell, it works. I have relaxed fish, and even my tail biter rarely acts up.

But if your water naturally has ammonia in it, Prime is a better choice.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for the info. As far as I can tell the Betta Complete has aloe in it too (at least from the description) but I'll start with a water change and order some of the stress coat and have it delivered tomorrow and go from there. Hopefully that will help him. 

Since I don't know the ammonia levels yet, should I go ahead and do like a 25 or 50% wc today, or wait until the stress coat gets delivered tomorrow and start with 100% water change then?


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Alright, but don't rely on it completely to get him doing better.

Here's a guide to help with the water changes:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=115758
You said his filter was rather strong, can you slow it down more? If not you might have to turn it off, which means a bit more water changes but unless you can baffle the filter it will just stress him to have it on. I had a filter that was too strong and it caused my betta to tail bite, since then I changed filters and baffled it and he's not stressed by it now.

You only have one plant in there so it's not enough to really effect the water changes.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I only have one plant in the tank, but three things of wheat grass at the top where the water filters through. I think I might wait until tomorrow to do a water change and then add the Stress Coat, so I make sure the ammonia and such is in check.

https://www.backtotheroots.com/shop/aquafarm 

This is the tank I have, and I'm not completely sold on it. I'm really tempted to take it back and get a 'real' tank with a 'real' filtration in it. I'm just scared the plants don't filter enough of the ammonia out (But I don't have a tester, so I don't know for sure). Guess I'll wait until I get the test kit in before I exchange it.



Excuse the disshoveled tank. I have him in the little container to see if he gets a bit better for now but still in heated water.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

There isn't a lot of coverage for him, or did you remove it so he could float?

If I were you I'd take it back and just get a basic 5g (not a set) then choose a good hang on the back filter or sponge filter, and stick with that. Most tank sets come with rather junky filters. I'd also try and get a lid with a light hood (non LED) so you can properly grow plants


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I took the top off so he could float in the warm water, which kind of pulled everything up, but don't really care at this point. The cover is just kind of resting on the top of the tank so it keeps the heat in.

I was looking at exchanging this tank for a Tetra 3g (http://www.petco.com/product/113683...px?CoreCat=MM_FishSupplies_FishTanksAquariums) one that has a light, lid and filter system. I could really care less about the wheat grass, as I have never used it before, but like the idea of having real plants in the tank instead of fake ones.

Obviously I'd still get all the water conditioners we spoke about earlier, but really hating my decision to go with the Aquafarm. Hindsight 20/20...


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Does it have a lid? I can't quite tell from it's picture. LEDs are not great for growing plants if you plan on doing so, but some low light plants can manage. The tank says it comes with the Tetra whisper internal filter and I can tell you right now that you'll spend a small fortune constantly replacing the filter media (I have one) and tetra products can be of low quality. Most filter systems that come with tanks usually function poorly and are hard to baffle if they create too much current. You'll save time and money just getting a plain, basic tank and then buying the equipment for it. All in all it doesn't seem too bad if you're really set on getting a set.

Also, curved sides can cause a lot of distortion when you try to look or take pics of your fish.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for the input. I'm not set on that tank, just seemed like a better one than what I have. In college I had one of the corner 1g tanks, and it worked pretty well for me without adding anything to it, but they've changed since then and I'm not sure they're as good. And I'd like a bit bigger (But nothing over 5g for now).

Thanks again for all your advice.

I know for a fact I'm returning the current tank.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

And yes, it does have a clear lid on the tank, so fish can't escape


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

5g aren't as big as you think, plus you'd only need a 50% WC, and vacuum the bottom, once a week - compared to multiple water changes for anything with less volume  I have a 5g and a 10g set up side by side and it makes it look tiny! Plus 5g's have more of a long footprint, creating more surface area and more space to scape the tank. If doing planted tanks, it gives more freedom for the size and type of plants.

Or is there a different reason you're not going 5g+ ? I know a lot of people who rent can't have certain size tanks.

I think returning that tank is the best thing to do. A lot of people have some here complaining about it. I think I've only heard of one person on here having success with it and she was growing herbs and had a healthy betta, but it was like a 4g model and I think maybe a different brand.


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## SabastiansMom (Jul 25, 2014)

I have a 4g tank that I ended up tossing the filter on and buying a decent one that I can adjust the flow. Right now I have a bunch of snails in it and 6 of the cutest tetras (waiting for them to get bigger before I toss them in the 55g.) I also have different lights on it but I've got silk plants in it not real ones.

Best of luck with your tank...I would agree with everyone here.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Right now it's more a cost thing with anything over 5g, I guess. We're small business owners with a toddler and we just bought a house. I think I'm going to try a 5g one and see how that goes. If all else fails, we'll put some other type of fish in it. Just really disappointed with this tank, since I've never had problems with bettas before (they were always in 1g tanks, not the best, but great for college). Even tempted to go that route since I know it worked for me in the past...that's how frustrated this experience has left me...

Thanks again for the help Tress. The pet store already knows I'm bringing the tank back tomorrow. Just hope my betta survives the change


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If they aren't too expensive for you, IMO these would be a better choice; or any of the Fluval Spec. The LED that come with these and the Fluvals are fine for low-light plants. The ones below get good reviews from Betta owners.

Marineland Contour Glass LED Aquarium Kit at PETCO


Marineland Portrait Glass LED Aquarium Kit at PETCO

Good luck and .... Welcome to the Forum!


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I was just looking at the Marineland kits! Thanks!


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Welcome  I hope I didn't sound too pushy. I hope things work out for you.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

No I appreciate it Tress. I'm still trying to wrap my (and hubby's) head around one betta needs a 5+g tank, but it does make sense. We're just so used to seeing them live in the little 1g tanks from our college days, and never seeing any issues with them. I think I'm going to try the Marineland 5g set up. From what I can tell, it's still going to be big enough for our fish (hoping he come out of his funk once I get this settled) and the heater I have. Where the tank is gets lots of indirect sunlight throughout the day, so I'm not too worried about the plant/s inside. Just want to make sure his water is as safe as possible for him.

Appreciate it all guys!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You're not pushy, Tress. Just concerned. ;-)

And, ellekay, you're welcome. I believe you will be pleased.

I considered getting a Marineland glass a while back but went with a larger tank from TruAqua (I have Betta-based community tanks). I did get a different filter (IF201). Was amazed as this is the first curved I've seen that doesn't distort. Wonder how they did that????

SC380 Semi-Circle Aquarium System Black/Gray

Oh, and tell your DH that the larger the tank the less work.  Once cycled, a 25% weekly water change will keep your Betta healthy.


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

Hey! Sorry to hear about your poor fishies! I hear alot that the rule of thimb on heaters are 5watts to the gallon. Even a ten watt for a gallon may bee too much. Its about the energy output the 50w has vs adjusting the temp, it may still be too high .

Order a heater for 10w and a basic thermometer. Thats the easiest solution

The harder one is to buy the thermometer, put the heater in a gallon tank or fill a bucket of water to a gallon and set it to 78* and set relay on your smart phone time suite. check every 30 minutes the water temp. If it takes an hour to reach the temp, the. You can calculate the rate...

Basically, if your gallon tank is the temp (78*f) you want by an hour, you know that 
3 gallons will take 3 hours, half a gallon is 30 minutes. You can set a power timer on the fishy tank to turn on/off the heat so it stays 74-78* and not overheat the water. You can also use a better setting on the 50w and keep it off more... Its the research thats the pain


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Hate to disagree with ^ but a 50 watt will work just fine. I always buy 50 watt for any tank I have and used one in my five with no issues. And never, ever turn off a heater off and on or put on a timer as you don't want temperature fluctuations.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Well they don't need a 5g, some actually prefer smaller tanks. The agreed upon min size is 2.5g. But 5g gives you more room to play around with it. My big CT makes a 5g look small lol


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Betta Ray, my 50w heater is adjustable, and it's auto off an on, basically cycles like a furnace in a house. It does a phenomenal job at maintaining temp, never wavers according to my in water thermometer. It has the double casing as well, so fish don't burn if they swim against it. If I get the 5g tank, it should be better in it than my current 3.5g.

Poor Chi, he's trying so hard to swim around when I go up to him, but his poor little fins are clamped so bad he can't  Hopefully the new tank tomorrow will help him.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I'll start with the new tank, and if Chi doesn't make it, we're going to do some Neon Tetras for a while (hubby's decision) then maybe try another betta in it later.

Thanks again all!


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Hate to disagree with ^ but a 50 watt will work just fine. I always buy 50 watt for any tank I have and used one in my five with no issues. And never, ever turn off a heater off and on or put on a timer as you don't want temperature fluctuations.


Well it was just an idea, anyways I get a little too scientific sometimes lol. Who would actually follow the hard road instead of buying a 15$ heater?


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Pretty sure I'm going to purchase a 10g tank tomorrow. We might keep the Aqua farm for tetras or something, but not for our betta.

I really wanted the Tetra 10g kit, but my local stores don't have it and I'd like to get Chi back in a working tank sooner rather than later. So I'll look tomorrow, but may end up with the TopFin 10g kit (which comes with EVERYTHING). I want to get some plants to put in it, but not sure which/how many I should do. 

Suggestions?


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Here's a great thread to give you an idea about plants  

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575
You don't have to do dirt with a cap, it's also a little tricky if it's your first time (trust me I know xD). You can do sand or gravel, but you'd have to use root tabs and/or liquid ferts. It all depends on what plants you want and what kind of lighting you have.

You can also post in the planted tank section and ask any questions you have there, and read some of the other posts to give you an idea where and what to start with.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Poor Chi... This was the only thing I absolutely had to put him in while I exchange his tank...I know it's only short term, but I still feel bad. I couldn't acclimate him properly, so I worked on getting the temp the same as what he was in. Now I have him in the hottest room of the house since I can't put his heater in with him. He seems to be doing okay though. He's swimming all around, even with his clamped fins...

I feel bad and really hope the new tank works for him. :-(

I couldn't get a picture of him at the top, but he keeps going from top to bottom, like a normal fish. Good signs maybe?


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

Sorry about Chi, hopefully he snaps out of it, stress is a killer


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Well while I was out exchanging his tank, he passed...  He was so active when I left too. His water was still at 80 when I came home, so I know he didn't get too cold...shock of all the moving probably did him in....

So, I now have a 10g Tetra kit, all the water test supplies, Stress Coat+ and quick start, 3 plants (all look basically the same sadly) and sand...and Chi's cave. I'd still like to set the tank up and get it ready for a new fish. How should I go about doing it? I almost bought this cycle/start up kit, (http://www.petco.com/product/111520/Microbe-Lift-Aquarium-Cycling-And-Water-Conditioning-Kit.aspx) but didn't. 

How do I properly set this tank up now that I don't have a fish to worry about?

I want to get more plants, maybe a few frogs a snail and maybe some friends for the next Chi. (He's named Chi because that's what our toddler says when she tries to say fishy)

Thanks. A bit bummed that he didn't survive to his new tank. He was so so pretty...


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## Bettalovinmomma (May 28, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about Chi. 

Mr. Riley is still hanging in there but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.


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## hgual22 (Jul 18, 2014)

Sorry about Chi! Both the fish you bought came from petco, yes? Maybe they had a bad batch. I would get one from a different store and see if your luck changes. 

I would set the tank up right away. Let the sand settle, put all the decor in and make sure there is lots of coverage. Bettas will get stressed if there arent enough hiding places. I use cheap Terra Cotta pots as caves, and then live plants. Set the tank up, make sure everything works and then get your betta, preferably from another store, or wait a couple weeks for a different batch of fish to come in. Then put in the quick start and test daily, chage the water when ammonia goes above .25. 

Also be careful with adding frogs. While usually african dwarf frogs are a good tank mate for bettas, they are hard to feed. You needto get frozen food (they love bloodworms) and actually put them at the bottom in front of the frogs so they see it. And make sure the betta doesnt steal it from them. Its a pain to do everyday, thawing the worms, and target feeding. They dont do good on diets other than frozen. 

Snailsare great though. I have a huge blue mystery snail in my 10gal with my honey gourami and endlers, and he is great. So fun to watch him climb to the top of the plants, jump off and float to the bottom xD he loves cucumbers and algae wafers, plus he eats any leaves that fall off of plants. Hes adorable. 

Good luck with the next guy! He sure will be spoiled with his new ten gallon!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Sorry to hear about Chi the Second. If you bought him from the same place it could be there was something wrong with both before you even brought them home. Or, as you thought, it could have been the tank itself.

Hate to disagree on the African Dwarf Frogs, but I have six in a 10 with no feeding issues. HBH Frog and Tadpole Bites are their main diet, not hard to feed and don't tempt my Betta. However, I do drop them in the same general area every time. ADF quickly learn the lid raising means food so when I feed frozen bloodworms I feed them to Random the Betta first and by that time the ADF are waiting in their "spot."

I only do fish-in cycling. Using something like Tetra SafeStart should make it go faster.

I test Ammonia every day. When it reaches .25 ppm I do a 25% water change;
Once I get an Ammonia reading I test for Nitrites. When either reaches .25 ppm I change 25%;
When Nitrites and Ammonia show I start testing for Nitrates. When Nitrites and Ammonia are 0 and Nitrates start to show a tank is cycled.

Sometimes you have to do three or four water changes per week to keep Ammonia and Nitrites under .25; sometimes not. Between water changes add one or two drops of Seachem Prime per gallon.

Once cycled a 10 only needs 25% water change every other week although I continue testing every week.

As an aside: While cycling some advise .50 ppm/50% wate change; either works I'm just a bit conservative.

I would only do a fish-in cycle with a Betta; never an ADF. Betta don't really "need" friends; it's more for us. But I've found ADF (get at least three as they are very, very social) make the best and least stressful for either party. I have a great source if you're interested let me know.


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## FlashtheFish (Nov 13, 2014)

I need help fast----
I have a 1 gallon tank, with a heater, i condition it with BettaSafe (Tetra) and i'm trying to cure my betta's severe fin rot. His fins are somewhat translucent, the edges are black, his dorsal fin is almost gone, his anal fin is more than half gone, his tail fin is completely rounded and his side fins are beginnning to recede. I've tried Bettafix and Pimafix, done water changes, but he's still progressively worse


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## FlashtheFish (Nov 13, 2014)




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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

To get the best advice, try creating a post in the betta disease thread. There's even a few stickies that might be helpful. It will probably help you get help faster.

So we have the tank set up and the sand and decor in. We will probably go this weekend to a fish store and get the fish. I really want another betta. Ghost shrimp sound fun. What other fish can I put in there if we get another beta? Preferably something that's easy to feed along with a beta. What are the best an snails?

I'll post a picture of the new set up tomorrow.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 ^ Best to start your own thread in the Disease and Emergency section.

Don't add anything else until after the tank is cycled. This gives you a chance to know your Betta's personality and whether he is even a candidate for tank mates. And if you do decide on tank mates, have a back up plan. I can't recommend ADF enough. But you could have your husband's Neons, too. I have six ADF and numberous male Endlers and Dwarf Panda Guppies in my 10 gallon with Random the Betta.

Any other critters other than snails will create more issues when feeding than a Betta alone.


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

That's terrible!!! Never got a chance to save Chi. Since bettas tend to be a resilient fish, I agree that the problem might be the petstore. 

Some places just churn out fish. The sales guy i got Aku from stopped me broke down the whole habitat scenario, cycling, and asked me what I knew. I listened cause he took the time. I also returned to ask for tips and showed him im taking his advice to heart. 

I like those kind of places. They never steer you wrong. If your place didnt, move on


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

I forgot to ask, do I add all the quick start and salt now or right before adding the fish? I have the light and filter going for the plants. I also need to baffle the filter as it gives out a lot of ripple. Don't really want to buy a new one just yet. Thinking about trying the water bottle idea or just using sponge. Ill post a close up tomorrow.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

And neon s are okay to have with betas? Do they do better with females?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Never used that product but I believe VivianKJean has; maybe she'll answer. All I've ever used is Seachem Stability.

Some Betta, like mine, actually seem to enjoy and use the current. Also, it gives them a way to exercise unless it is so swift it tosses them around. I have bubble wands in all three of my Bett tanks and they play in them. You might want to see how he does first; but that' just my opinon. ;-)

I have Neons with my Betta. There were issues until I added enough to allow them to pick on each other instead of the Betta. You could have 10+ in the 10 gallon. They're one of those fish that do not do well until a tank is cycled.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

The whole cycling thing is still intimidating to me. I've never done it before and have no idea which way is best for us. I've read the sticky I don't know how many times and it's still just so daunting...


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi Ellekay, for people who are daunted by fish in cycles, I generally recommend a bucket cycle. You simply get a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with conditioned water, add the filter and some ammonia then leave it alone for 2 weeks. Come back and test daily or every other day and wait for the ammonia to drop. The only condition is that you have to find a way to maintain the temperature in the mid to high 70s.

As for the tetra safe start, you add it when you start cycling your tank (I read they said to wait 24 hours after using water conditioner but I never did when I used it). Add it directly into the filter.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

For me, fish-in cycle is pretty simple. As I posted on the previous page:

1. Test water every day for Ammonia ~ Daily testing is extremely important as parameters can change quickly and get out of hand
2. When Ammonia reads .25 ppm do a 25% water change
3. Once you see Ammonia also begin testing for Nitrites
4. When you see Nitrites start testing for Nitrates
5. When either Ammonia or Nitrites reach .25 ppm do a 25% water change
6. When tests read 0 ppm Ammonia and Nitrites and start to register Nitrates your tank is cycled.

You may need to do two, three or more water changes to keep Ammonia and Nitrites 0-.25 ppm. Do not clean decor or the filter but during water changes do siphon waste, etc., from substrate. I use a piece of tubing held slightly above the sand.

Between water changes add one or two drops of Seachem Prime per gallon.

It's just my opinion, but from reading various posts it seems to me a lot of people are needlessly intimidated by the thought of cycling a tank. But, really, if you do one water test per day, do water changes when tests indicate they're needed and have patience it's really pretty straightforward. And don't stress yourself by doing three or four tests per day; one is enough.

_Caveat_: Some advise letting Ammonia and/or Nitrites reach .50 ppm and do 50% water changes which is okay, too. I just prefer .25/25%.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Okay. The fish in doesn't sound that hard. and I'm sure I'll think its a breeze when I do it. 

Apparently I can only attach one picture at a time from my phone, so sorry for the repetitive posting...

Our new set up. Still need more plants, and probably another decor, but it's a start right? Currently have an 8" water fern and a 8" umbrella plant. And the little anubias (sp?) from Chi's old home. Thoughts on other plants and such to add?


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

And how would you go about baffling this filter (which according to the instructions on the filter, can't be used with sand). I'll replace it if needed but would rather not. It just makes a super strong current. And this model I don't see a way to adjust the flow.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Picture two. Showing currents.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Don't know if you'd be interested, but if you send me a PM I'll give you the code for 20% off this series of filters. They're what I use in my aquariums.

Aquarium Internal Filter IF-202

Anubias are good plants for beginners and there are all sorts of sizes and shapes. Just don't bury the rhizome in the substrate. Either tie to decor or bury roots-only. They prefer low-light so aren't as difficult to grow as some.
Loose Anubias Plants


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for the tip on the anubias. Ill go pull it out a bit.


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## DWS (Nov 4, 2014)

For a baffle, you can take some filter sponge and cut it down to the size to go in front of where the current comes out. Just attach it to the filter with rubber band. You will have to monitor the rubber band over time, but it works well. 

I also made a plastic bottle baffle and it is even better and looks a little better. I took aquarium tubing I had cut lengthwise and slid it onto the edges of the plastic cut bottle to further betta-safe it.

Just remember the intake on the hang-over-the-back (HOB) filter might be strong enough to suck in a pretty tail, too. Bettas seem to love to hang out behind these and I have definitely seen tail damage. You can put filter sponge around this, too.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks DWS. I had planned on getting some sponge and trying that before replacing the filter (as long is the filter keeps the water clean, I can DIY things to cut down flow).

I wasn't sure about where to put it or how to make it stay though.

Thanks!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

There are some DIY filter baffling threads. Not sure where, though. :-(


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Update:

Wasn't sure about the other two plants. So I sent pictures to Ken of www.bamaplants.com. He says the Umbrella plant is not aquatic but Water Fern is ... it's just emersed-grown. Emerse-grown plants often look entirely different from those grown submerged so someone may tell you it's non-aquatic but they'd be wrong. From Ken:

"The fern can be fully aquatic. It is Bolbitis asiatica/heteroclita. sometimes called Broadleaf Water fern or Broadleaf Bolbitis or common Bolbitis.. BUT <snip> it is emersed grown and will lose its leaves and regrow them and it likes two things.. light and some water flow but the water flow is not as important as with other bolbitis."

Because it likes water flow I would place it close to the filter and don't worry when it starts losing its leaves. Hope this all helps you ... and others. ;-)


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks! I had searched for it online, and that's what I thought it actually was as well. 

I'll pull the umbrella plant out and stick it in a votive or something until it's big enough for a vase.

I finally have internet again, so I can get caught up on the forums


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## D2W (Sep 11, 2013)

Here's a thought: The last fish in this tank up and died suddenly. What was wrong with it? Might it have had some disease or parasite that is now infecting Chi?
Take Chi out of the tank. Then bleach everything in the tank and the tank itself, plus the filter and mechanism. Then rinse and dechlorinate everything multiple times to get rid of the bleach. 
When you refill the tank with fresh water (should be about 75 degrees, 80 is on the high end), add extra dechlorinator (it won't hurt the fish to have extra) and a half teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon (this may harm live plants, I really don't know). Then if you can avoid getting any of the old water in the tank when you put Chi back, you'll be on your way to getting rid of any disease. (Instead of a net, you can scoop him up gently with your hand as long as you're quick.)
Good luck with the little guy!


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

D2W, a day late and a dollar short. Chi is dead and the tank has been returned. Cleaning the reused decorations is probably not a bad idea, though.


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## D2W (Sep 11, 2013)

Aw.  Swim in peace, Chi.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Yeah, thank you D2W. But Chi has swam on. We have the new tank set up and awaiting fish. I did clean everything off (no soap obviously) when I got the new Chi, but it didn't help. I think it was just a crap shoot of a tank. And possibly just bad fish as well.

Thank you though


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

Yeah, lost a snake that way... Infection before i could save it. They are a pain to keep. Pics of Chi Tu when you can.


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Betrayal, Chi the Second is my avatar. Ill post a pic of Chi the First tomorrow. It sucked 

But I have two awesome gold twin bar platys right now and love 'em!!


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## ellekay (Nov 11, 2014)

Betrayal, this is Chi the First. He was a really pretty Rose Petal Tail.


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## Betta Ray (Nov 5, 2014)

Pretty Fishes!!!! Poor thing!


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