# Folded stiff fins



## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 Gallons
What temperature is your tank? 75F
Does your tank have a filter?Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? ...yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Mostly Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? Normally twice a day, 2 pellets at a time

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Around 2 times every week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? About 10~20% at a time
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water Ager

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0.5~1
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 0~5
pH: 8
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Became pale, with folded tail fins that's affecting his ablilty to swim well
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Doesn't move around as much
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Since I noticed the cloudy water and decided to go through the cycling process and put him in a temporary glass bowl
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Tiny bit of Bettafix, I don't dare put in too much at a time...
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not as far as I am aware
How old is your fish (approximately)? I had him for 2 weeks, not sure how long he has been at the pet shop

Sooo, after a night awake and reading up, I think he's getting a fin rot and his discolouring is from stress. He has spent the night in the bowl that's in a sink filled with warm water... has looked happier since I put him in there, but the folded tail doesn't help him swim around well, especially because he is a veil tail so he has to work extra hard to move around... 

In my other thread in the care forum, I was suggested to float him in a container in the tank to keep him warm while the tank undergoes cycling. Any suggestions on what I should do to help him after I have gone out to buy a big enough plastic container to float him in? Or should I put the bowl in a cool box filled with warm water?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.....

I see that you don't use a dechlorinator......just aged water......since you are in Australia.....I don't know much about how the water is treated......or if you are even on a city supplied water source......so my question......if you are on city supplied source water-is it treated with both chlorine and chloramine....if only chlorine...aging the water for at least 24h will usually take care of it, but if it has chloramine too...aging will not take care of it and the water needs a dechlorinating product or it can cause lots of problems for the Betta.....

What kind of testing products are you using and have you tested the source water, if so...how did it test out.....

You can safely establish the nitrogen cycle with the Betta provided that you are willing and able to make the needed water changes....since you have the Betta already-cycling with the Betta in the 5gal filtered tank would be the best way to go IMO....regardless of what container you have him in....you gotta change the water......


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Welcome to the forum.....
> 
> I see that you don't use a dechlorinator......just aged water......since you are in Australia.....I don't know much about how the water is treated......or if you are even on a city supplied water source......so my question......if you are on city supplied source water-is it treated with both chlorine and chloramine....if only chlorine...aging the water for at least 24h will usually take care of it, but if it has chloramine too...aging will not take care of it and the water needs a dechlorinating product or it can cause lots of problems for the Betta.....
> 
> ...


Thank you for replying! 
Aside from water ager, since I have moved my betta out of the tank and into a glass bowl while the cycling takes place, since we have a carbon filter for drinking water, I have been using the water ager in the filtered water. I have also purchased water treatment for betta, which is supposed to remove the cholrine, chloramine and ammonia. Would that work better than the water ager?

Testing product is the master water testing kit by API for the tank, and I haven't actually tested the water source, but if I let the filtered water sit too long (for 2~3 days), I can taste algae... 

How do you then suggest I go about with the water change in the tank? Since he's moved into the bowl, I have been changing 100% of his water every 2 days. Is that bad...?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

To be honest...I don't know what a "water ager" is....is this some kind of product?

Good that you got the dechlorinator......right now I would make a 50% water only changes on the 5gal-Dose the dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank and re-acclimate him back to the 5gal by adding small amount of the treated tank water to the small holding container you have him in to acclimate to both temp and chemistry and then make daily 50% water only for 2 days and see if this will perk him up...the clean-like temp-dechlorinated water will also help early stages of fin rot/issue.....


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> To be honest...I don't know what a "water ager" is....is this some kind of product?
> 
> Good that you got the dechlorinator......right now I would make a 50% water only changes on the 5gal-Dose the dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank and re-acclimate him back to the 5gal by adding small amount of the treated tank water to the small holding container you have him in to acclimate to both temp and chemistry and then make daily 50% water only for 2 days and see if this will perk him up...the clean-like temp-dechlorinated water will also help early stages of fin rot/issue.....


Sorry, I can't help but laugh out loud with water ager being unknown to you. :lol:
It is water conditioner that is supposed to instantly neutralise chlorine and chloramine, and cheaper than the API betta water treatment by half while doing pretty much the same thing.
Been keeping his bowl in a mixing bowl with warm water overnight, and he's already more active despite of his bad tail. So... out I go today to find him a good container to float in... and hopefully his tail will be better... thank you. 

I had a closer look at him just now, and it seems like he's showing stress stripes (horizontal dark grey stripes) along his body near the fins...


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

i've also never heard of water conditioner refered to as "water ager" (might be an aussie term?) .. but from your description of the product seems like it's water dechlorinator/conditioner .. ^_^ .. or is it something completely different ?


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Actually, I put him inside a slurpee cup (just because it can jam easily into the bits that secures the filter under the hood) and turned on the tank light then got a shock, he is always a bit white so I never noticed... is it just me or does he have ick??? :shock: I feel so bad for letting him get into this condition... He is not lethargic or darting around trying to scratch himself though... what might be the problem??


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

A little help please? Somebody??


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The only symptom he is having is clamped fins correct.....no flashing, darting, no buoyancy issues, he is still eating and pooping...correct......

Did you re-acclimate him back to his tank after some water changes on the main tank or is he still in the QT....


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> The only symptom he is having is clamped fins correct.....no flashing, darting, no buoyancy issues, he is still eating and pooping...correct......
> 
> Did you re-acclimate him back to his tank after some water changes on the main tank or is he still in the QT....


he's lost a lot of colour, doesn't seem to have buoyancy problems, but darting around quite a bit...not sure if he's flashing because there is really nothing to scratch against inside the QT cup that is jammed into the tank to keep warm just below the hood, when he's not darting around he sits on the bottom of the cup... 100% water changes are performed for the cup everyday, and I have been sure to add water conditioner(the API betta conditioner, no more water ager for his tank for a while), warmed the water by putting the cup in a bit of warm water before I put him back in. He's eaten some, but since I have reduced amount of feeding to just 2~3 pellets a day he hasn't pooped yet (not since he's been inside the cup anyway). 

The ammonia is still a bit high in the main tank(hovering between .25 and .5, nitrate level sky rocketed (20ppm), no sign of nitrite reading yet) since its progressing in the cycle(doing about 20% water changes every 2 days...is that too little?), so I am very hesitant to put him back into the main tank in case it stresses him even more... 

What are your thoughts on his symptoms?? Thank you in advance...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The dechlorinator that you are using for chlorine, chloramine and ammonia-changes the ammonia to ammonium-the test product can't tell the difference...ammonium is harmless to the fish but can still be used by the nitrifying bacteria for the nitrogen cycle.....

At this point I would go ahead and start him on a aquarium salt 1tsp/gal, tannins along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days...

Premix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add aquarium salt 1tsp/gal and tannins-either IAL or Oak leaf...let this premixed treatment water sit for 30min-1hr for the tannins to release and salt to dissolve...shake well before use and use this water for 100% daily water changes while he is in QT for the next 5 days

I would make 50% water changes every hour for 2 hours to start and then start the 100% tomorrow and count that as day 1

Your goal water temp is 76-77F.....

Nutrition-a good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals and if you have access to mosquito larva-offer several rinsed larva once a day for one of the meals.....

What all chemicals have you added to the main tank, what are the water prams of your source water or water used for the tank.

If you have a water softener unit on the tap water-bypass it for the water used with the fish and use proper amount of only One dechlorinating product....


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Does having a pH of 8 raise a red flag here, OFL?


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> The dechlorinator that you are using for chlorine, chloramine and ammonia-changes the ammonia to ammonium-the test product can't tell the difference...ammonium is harmless to the fish but can still be used by the nitrifying bacteria for the nitrogen cycle.....
> 
> At this point I would go ahead and start him on a aquarium salt 1tsp/gal, tannins along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days...
> 
> ...


I got Aquarium salt on hand, so its all good, the issue I have now is the IAL or oak leaf, I live in Queensland it might be too warm for oaks, and we have a very strict customs quarantine in Australia so I doubt I can import IAL leaves. Is there any other good source of tannin in case I can't find oak leaves? 

I have yet to test the source water for parameters (from a Brita filter jug), but in the main tank, Cycle has been added, also the API betta water treatment... that's it. Only one type of dechlorinating product, check.

I have a few types of food for my betta, the API pellets, freeze dried bloodworms, and some finer ground betta food. Mozzie larvae, is it safe to use if I let some water sit around for mozzies to lay eggs in?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Bypass the Brita water and stop all the other chemical additives except for 1 dechlorinating product....

If you don't have any oak trees in your area to collect leaves.....in a pinch you can use decaf green tea....its limited to just tanning the water for stress...but that is a start.....too bad you don't have oak trees....my oak trees drop leave year around...you also have a blackwater extract you can usually get at pet shops....but I have never used it and don't know much about it either.....something you could check out.....


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## cherrybello (Aug 8, 2011)

Thank you very much OFL, I put my fish in a mixture of black water extract and aquarium salt in a Qt container, he is now back in his tank, active and moving about, built a bubble nest and even flared at my finger like a healthy lil fella.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Your welcome and good to hear he is getting better-thanks for the up-date.......


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