# Is this dropsy?



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

Alright, first off, this fish is NOT MINE. His name is Charles and belongs to my neighbor. She gave me their fish to take care of and attempt to cure... but the problem is I believe this is a case of Dropsy. I don't know how advanced this is, but I don't think he'll survive.
Now with that being said, I have filled in the info below as best I could.

Housing 
What size is your tank?
-1/2 a gallon.
What temperature is your tank?
-About 74 degrees (F).
Does your tank have a filter?
-No.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
-No.
Is your tank heated?
-No.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?
-None.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
-Flaked food.
How often do you feed your betta fish?
-One healthy pinch of flakes a day, every day.

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 
-Once a month (yikes...)
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
-100% monthly.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
-None. Softened tap water.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
-I don't know anything about the water. Its a half gallon and it does not get changed as often as it should (only once a month).

Ammonia: Likely high.
Nitrite:---
Nitrate:---
pH: Likely acidic (6)
Hardness:---
Alkalinity:---

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
-Very swollen belly, scales are mildly pineconing.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
-Eats and acts the same, but sits a bottom a bit more.
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
-2-3 weeks ago. He had a swollen belly.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
-Now that I have him, I have set his tank on a heating pad and intend to use epsom salts in his tank (2tsp/gal). I am considering using bettaREVIVE as well.
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
-No.
How old is your fish (approximately)? 
-About 1 year.

I would greatly appreciate advice on how exactly I can treat him. I intend to use epsom salts and possibly bettaREVIVE as well as putting him on a heating pad.

Also if anyone could tell me a bit about Dropsy... how does this happen, and is it contageous?


Here are three current pictures of him.


----------



## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

oh my. I would also be doing daily 100% water changes along with the epsom salt treatment. He may just be severely bloated from over feeding in which case the epsom salt will help.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

It looks like Swim bladder disorder you may want to get an anti bacterial treatment in case it is dropsy Dropsy is a parasite and you will need to treat early. Mine had theses symptoms and he died of dropsy treat now and hopefully save him.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

Dropsy isn't a parasite. and it's not an illness.

it looks like overfeeding. bad bloat. fast him, try the epsom salt, and keep his tank warm. can you get daphnia? i've heard it acts as a laxative to them.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

I was told Dropsy was a parasite like a bacterial kind of parasite.


----------



## lvandert (Feb 23, 2012)

I believe Dropsy is the failure of internal organs (right luimeril?). Once a fish reaches that state its hard to get them to bounce back.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I second the epsom salt and daily water change treatment and a dose of API General Cure may not hurt either in case he's got some internal parasites and a bit of an internal infection. You can start at 1 tsp of epsom salt and work up to 3 tsps if necessary.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

I believe I read that Dropsy is the condition or symptom (bloated body, pineconing scales) of the fish, not the problem itself. I think it is kidney failure.
But multiple people have mentioned parasites. How could this fish get parasites? His owners have never fed him live food, only flakes.
I do not have daphnia- I can't find it anywhere. I will feed him frozen brine shrimp instead.
I've got him on a heating pad now and his tank has epsom salt and BettaREVIVE. I think that's all I can do for him right now.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it's organ failure, usually. causes the body to retain liquids, bloating up and pine-coning the scales(if i'm not mistaking). it's almost impossible to bounce back. sometimes, dropsy's caused by parasites or bacterial infections, but more often than not, it's organ failure.

it looks like his tummy's the only thing bloated. if it were dropsy, it'd be the whole body, not just that massive tummy.

i honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's just constipation. flakes aren't great, because they can swell in the tummy. flakes+cold water, and such a tiny tank, would equal a blockage on the inside. i hope you can pull him through.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

I really hope he pulls through you should really tell them to change his water more twice a week would be best for a half gallon and try and convince them to get him a bigger tank and to heat it.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

They aren't huge on bettas like we are. Truthfully, they do tend to overfeed him and change his tank once a month. Thats a fright- I change mine weekly.
But for him, I'm going to try to change his water every other day, 75%. I don't want to stress him out too much.
I'm doing my research and it sounds like the top three medication canditates are Maracyn-Two, Tetracycline, and Kanamycin. I'm thinking of purchasing Kanamycin hopefully from the store tomorrow. I hope that if I use it along with the epsom salt, it'll do him some good.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

They shouldn't have a fish then if they are not big on Bettas honestly if you can't care for the animal don't have one.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

I know. They believe in the stereotypical betta fish. They dont realize that these fish have specific needs that need to be met in order to stay healthy and thrive. I've tried to explain it...
Truthfully, I think her kids wanted the fish because they babysat mine a few times while I was away. They had three others in addition to Charles. One died (shock after sudden water change), and Charles is sick with dropsy.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

honestly, i'd hold off on meds, see if the other treatments work first. i had a betta with Dropsy. it's not pretty, and is honestly downright creepy to look at.

this was Medic. compare how she looks, to your boy. she almost looked normal from the side.

























see the way her whole body is pine-coned? THAT. is dropsy. your boy has raised scales only around his belly, yeah? that's kinda normal for bloat as bad as his. that's why i, personally, would try fasting and epsom salt first, then medicate if it doesn't help any.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

His body is pineconed a lot like your fish in the picture. Its not just his belly, its his whole body. But his belly is really swollen.
I can hold off on the meds, and I'm keeping him in the epsom salts. Fasting shouldn't be a problem.

I have a picture from the same view. They look kinda similar to me...
And actually I just noticed that in the light, I can kinda see through his belly!  Is that normal for bloating??
I really hope its not dropsy...


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

mmm... he looks worse from up top. ;n; i've just never seen dropsy do that before. :I but, either way, espon salt should help even the dropsy, since it pulls water from the body, i think it was?


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

Yeah, that makes sense.
He actually looks worse today than he did yesterday... it looks like his stomach is gonna explode.
:/ You don't suppose he can be cured, do you? I've been hearing a lot of mixed responses. I know dropsy is fatal, but I don't know if its too late for him.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it's worth a shot, imo. treating him won't hurt anything. i did my gal, even though everyone on here was telling me it wouldn't work. she was happy and active until the day she passed.

take the rocks out of his tank. that way, you can see if he's pooping at all. if he is, you know it's not constipation.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

When my betta had dropsy he had the bloated belly as well it could be caused by something else or maybe just one possible side effect of dropsy. Once my boy reached that stage it was only inevitable for him to die I hope he pulls through but wouldn't be surprised if he didn't


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

Yeah. Looks like I'll hope for the best but plan for the worst.
Was this contageous to any of your other fish? Thats my second big concern.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

If its parasite caused then yes I would keep any sick fish away from others no matter what.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

Then I should be extra careful about cross-contaminating them. I don't know what caused the dropsy.
Thank you!


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

Your welcome good luck with the fish I hope he lives.


----------



## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

I have heard of dropsy happening in sorority's where only one got it. Then again I have heard of it happening where several in the sorority got it. Some say it's highly contagious and others say it's barely contagious. I want to study it more now...


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

After she corrected me I researched it more and dropsy itself is organ failure the bloating is their swim bladder going. It can be caused by so many different things though that its best to isolate the fish and be careful to not cross contaminate.


----------



## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

Hmm, okay good. So I wonder what makes some cases more contagious than others.


----------



## DeviCy (Mar 6, 2012)

Well bacteria versus old age causing it for instance I suppose.


----------



## Shirleythebetta (Jan 9, 2012)

That makes sense. Thanks. I had a girl pass from this too. She was in my sorority so I was curious had her two weeks


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Dropsy can be caused by many things. It can even be localized in one spot of the body and not an all over bloat. It is a symptom of an internal infection and organs shutting down, most often the kidneys. When organs start to malfunction, fluid builds up in the body and pushes the scales outward, causing that pinecone effect. Dropsy can even be present in an old fish who, aside from reaching the end of his natural lifespan, is otherwise healthy.

The thing with parasites is this: all fish have a certain amount of parasites in and on their bodies. A healthy fish is strong enough to keep these parasites from becoming an infestation but a stressed fish with a compromised immune system isn't strong enough to fight them off and that's when they become a problem. Since this guy was kept in rotten water conditions, it makes sense that he wouldn't be strong enough to fight anything off.

I still recommend 3 tsps of epsom salt per gallon to help keep the swelling down. If you have any Indian Almond Leaf or naturally dried oak leaves, I recommend those as a tannin source. Medication is optional but if you do decide to medicate I would suggest either API General Cure or API Furan-2.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

In case anyone was wondering about the outcome, here it is.

Charles is still ALIVE. I managed to stop his scales from pineconing, but his bloated belly is not going away. He's definitely terminal, but is not suffering.

So, as I said, he does not belong to me- he's my neighbor's. I offered him back to them and explained that they'd have to take care of him and continue to heat his tank and medicate his water (to further keep him comfortable). They didn't want to deal with that. I think poor Charles just got abandonded...
Though I don't know if that means I've adopted him or not. :/

But I would like to thank everyone for their help in this matter.  I really appreciate it, and I'll continue to care for Charles.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Way to go on stopping the pineconing, LittleFish. Poor Charles. To be sick and then abandoned too. I'm glad he has you to care for him.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

It really is a shame that he's been kinda abandoned. He's got the complete mentality and behavior of a healthy, happy fish. It's just his body that's failing. But he eats and swims around despite that. The optimistic personality is remarkable. I'm gonna end up missing him the most...

I will never turn away an ill fish in need of help. Thank you very much for your kind words.


----------



## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

dropsy is familiar to edema in humans, intense swelling and water retention which often leads to organ failure due to the intense amount of pressure put on the swollen organs. edema (and dropsy) can be caused by any number of illnesses and is not an illness in itself.


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

sainthogan said:


> dropsy is familiar to edema in humans, intense swelling and water retention which often leads to organ failure due to the intense amount of pressure put on the swollen organs. edema (and dropsy) can be caused by any number of illnesses and is not an illness in itself.


I know that dropsy is usually a symptom of organ failure (in this case, probably kidney failure). But I didn't know about the edema similarities. That's very interesting...
I figured the salts would help relieve some pressure. The fluids in the fish's body should hopefully diffuse into the water where it's saltier in order to maintain osmoregularity. That's my theory as to why he's no longer pineconing... As for the extreme bloat, that's definitely organ failure and I can't fix that. :/


----------



## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

At least it seems that you are relieving some of his symptoms so that maybe he's not in so much misery. Poor thing, at least you are doing what you can to help him.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The conditions he was kept in probably did irreversible damage to his organs. Ammonia can burn internally as well as the external burns we see. But at least you've made him comfortable and happy.


----------



## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

I would just like to say that you are a great person to take care of Charles. That is so sad that they treated him poorly and then abandoned him when the going got tough. Those people need to never have pets! I am having a similar problem with my betta, Stanley. His belly region is massively bloated although he acts perfectly normal. I am afraid if it gets any worse his organs will begin to fail. That is, if they haven't already. Im trying to stay positive and hopeful but still prepare for the worst. My question is this...

How do I tell the difference between a bacterial infection, constipation, and parasites? He is still hungry and pooping every now and then but Im not sure how often. Today he had a very long(~1 inch) brown poo hanging from him with white on the end and hanging by some sort of stringy type thing that I could not see with a flashlight and my 20/20 vision. The stringiness makes me believe its parasites but Im no expert. It could also just be that his body is having a hard time pushing it out which is making it that thin long shape. Please help if you can!


----------



## LittleFish2012 (Oct 24, 2011)

CTBettaLover said:


> I would just like to say that you are a great person to take care of Charles. That is so sad that they treated him poorly and then abandoned him when the going got tough. Those people need to never have pets! I am having a similar problem with my betta, Stanley. His belly region is massively bloated although he acts perfectly normal. I am afraid if it gets any worse his organs will begin to fail. That is, if they haven't already. Im trying to stay positive and hopeful but still prepare for the worst. My question is this...
> 
> How do I tell the difference between a bacterial infection, constipation, and parasites? He is still hungry and pooping every now and then but Im not sure how often. Today he had a very long(~1 inch) brown poo hanging from him with white on the end and hanging by some sort of stringy type thing that I could not see with a flashlight and my 20/20 vision. The stringiness makes me believe its parasites but Im no expert. It could also just be that his body is having a hard time pushing it out which is making it that thin long shape. Please help if you can!


 
Thank you!
To be honest, it's difficult to tell. Constipation is like minor bloat where the fish will not poop (and sometimes swim a little sideways because it affects the swim bladder...)
With parasites, there will usually be WHITE stringy fecal matter. So that could very well be parasites. Another thing to look for are "lumps" under his skin (internal parasites), or stringy matter hanging off his body or fins (external parasites). Thats a tell-tale sign of parasites.
Keep in mind that if you feed him food that is white, that could be a part of it. But I doubt that, food isn't usually white... Have you fed him any live foods?
Bacterial infections are just all around difficult to diagnose because they can happen internally or externally with or without symptoms. And when there are symptoms, there can be a wide range.
For your fish, it is possible it could be constipation. Flakes that lack moisture can get packed in the digestive tract. Likewise, some pellet foods will expand after eaten and block the way out.  Everything in moderation, I guess...
When my fish get constipated, I feed them a steamed broccoli florret or two. It seems to help (apparently the myth about a cooked pea is for goldfish?) although I'm not quite certain if you're supposed to do that, so I can't "recommend" it.
Something that I find helps "bring a fish back to life" is epsom salt. It has beneficial effects on them. If you want, you could try dissolving 1-2tsp in a gallon of water. It never hurts.
For now, I'd keep an eye on him. Check for any odd appearance or funny behavior (swimming around rapidly, scraping himself against objects, acting lethargic, etc).
And it might not hurt to invest in an antibiotic of some sort. It can't hurt to have SOMETHING on hand for emergencies or just in case.

I am also ordering in a stronger medication (kanaplex) for poor charles. BUT this is for BACTERIAL problems. Not so much parasites, if that's even your fish's problem. It's unlikely if you haven't fed him anything live.

I hope that helps a little bit.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

CT, you can definitely tell constipation if you don't see him pooing at all and he starts to bloat up. The difference between an internal bacterial infection and parasitse can be a little harder to figure out. It's not uncommon for them to push out long stringy brown poos, but the white part could be indicative of internal parasites. I would go ahead and get him into 2 tsps of epsom salt per gallon as a precaution and continue to monitor his poos. If you see more whiteish stringy poo, it's most likely internal parasites and meds would help.


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

just want to say something. I think it better to treat fish as soon as you know/think it has parasites. Because fish can deteriorate so fast and it nothing your can do then.I think if you ever see white or clear stringy, wormy like poo or brown and clear or white at the ends it always possibilities them to have internal parasites. And it always better to treat them while they are eating and can pass worms with poo.


----------

