# Can't seem to Get Rid of Columnaris



## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5
What temperature is your tank? 77 degrees (betta now in a 72 degree quarantine bowl) 
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Aqueon
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day (three pellets a time)

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? 50% change once a week, full change once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime and Stress Coat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Cotton patch on dorsal fin
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Breaths a bit heavy but still flaring, eating like a pig, swimming around nicely. Nice and active. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? I've been going back and forth with this disease...it seems gone and then comes back a bit later. His entire tank has been bleached, and I make sure not to skip any water changes.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Right now he is in a quarantine bowl of .5 gallons with daily water changes. He is on Maracyn 1 and 2 and also Coppersafe. 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Yes, he has always had a terrible immune system. It's quite frustrating, my mother is very lazy when it comes to her three bettas water changes and they have no temperature regulation. Her bettas always live to 3 or 4 years old. I do as much as I can do and my poor guy becomes ill quite easily. 
How old is your fish (approximately)? I rescued him from Pet Supplies Plus a year and a half ago. He was full grown when I bought him so I know older than a year and a half, by how much not certain.


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Any thoughts? Sorry I'm just worried about my guy. He hates his quarantine tank so much, but I want to make sure he absorbs his medication.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Maracyn 1 is extremely unlikely to be helpful. Also coppersafe is for parasites so I'm not sure why you're treating with that either. I'd try Maracyns in combo or Maracyn 2 if you don't want to mix the Maracyns. Ideally, if you can find Kanaplex (Kanamyacin) by Seachem it would be your best bet.

For immune system boosters try soaking pellets in garlic guard (garlic juice extract) and adding vita chem to the water once a week. You might also try some different food. For soaking I suggest Omega One but otherwise New Life Spectrum Betta. NLS I like best but it just doesn't absorb much and feeding is a pain when soaking because they sink immediately. 

If your Betta is really sensitive that might not be enough of a water change as in my experience there will still be some ammonia present in the water on that change cycle for 2.5g. Investing in a drops test kit and testing ammonia daily after 2 days until you see it start to turn green then you know it's time for at least a partial change. After you've done this a few weeks you'll start to see a pattern and know how long you can go before doing a change and your fish will never see ammonia (which weakens his immune system).


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Thank you, that was extremely helpful.

I've been just doing research online which recommended those medications. There was such a vast difference in a lot of the articles about treating columnaris that I decided to go on here. I'll see where I can get Kanaplex as well to start him on promptly. I'll also get my hands on some drop test kits and garlic guard. Thanks again.


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Okay, I ordered Kanaplex and it should arrive in two business days. Tricky little medication to find. I'll pick up a drop test kit today about my local pet store. 

Orville this morning is still active and hungry. There has not been really any change in behavior and his breathing is back to normal. The only abnormality is the cottony white patch on his dorsal fin. I just really hope he does not decline before I can get him started on the new treatment.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

I've found Maracyn 2 to be quite expensive for what it is. I've never used it personally, I keep tetracycline and erythromycin on hand at all times. Columnaris HATES salt, and moving water seems to help prevent it. It's a tenacious bear of a thing to get rid of though. I would level the tank, pull the gravel and boil it. scrub the tank with a bit of bleach and vineagar, all ornaments that can't be boiled give them a good long bleach dip (same with the filter guts and heater). Keep your fish in isolation for at least 5 days after he quits showing outright symptoms. 2tsp salt per gal/double strength API jungle fungus tabs/double strength tetracycline, plus scorched earth policy on my tanks fixed my columnaris outbreak.


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Brian10962001 said:


> I've found Maracyn 2 to be quite expensive for what it is. I've never used it personally, I keep tetracycline and erythromycin on hand at all times. Columnaris HATES salt, and moving water seems to help prevent it. It's a tenacious bear of a thing to get rid of though. I would level the tank, pull the gravel and boil it. scrub the tank with a bit of bleach and vineagar, all ornaments that can't be boiled give them a good long bleach dip (same with the filter guts and heater). Keep your fish in isolation for at least 5 days after he quits showing outright symptoms. 2tsp salt per gal/double strength API jungle fungus tabs/double strength tetracycline, plus scorched earth policy on my tanks fixed my columnaris outbreak.


Thanks Brian, I'll definitely follow your advice after I get Orville treated. I have been fighting this for awhile. I did bleach the gravel and the silk plants but Columnaris ended up coming back . I'm thinking once I get this under control I will probably just replace everything in my tank and put the salt, jungle fungus tabs in the tank. I really like my tank and don't want to replace it, but I think once my betta is fully treated I'm going to put him in my large critter care container until I feel the tank has been completely cleansed of this disease. 

He's tank is on my desk and he is still his very active self. Flaring at me now as we speak...so it thankfully he has yet to show any behavioral consequences of this disease. I just really want this medication to get here!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry but never bleach anything porous. There's a chance for it to hold in the bleach solution. If you treat right in the tank there should be no reason to super clean everything like that. But if you want to be really safe then not like it will hurt.

I'm not sure why you need to put additional meds in the tank.. the 10% bleach solution soak will kill anything. Tetracycline will not work for Columnaris and all that accomplished was stressing the fish out additionally, and if an anti fungal med worked it's probably because it was an actual fungal infection and not columnaris.. I could be wrong on the fungus clear but I've never heard of that med for curing columnaris (which is a bacterial infection).

Good luck! Kanaplex will likely take care of it. If you see it improving but not 100% gone you can safely do a second dose after a water change.


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

callistra said:


> Sorry but never bleach anything porous. There's a chance for it to hold in the bleach solution. If you treat right in the tank there should be no reason to super clean everything like that. But if you want to be really safe then not like it will hurt.
> 
> I'm not sure why you need to put additional meds in the tank.. the 10% bleach solution soak will kill anything. Tetracycline will not work for Columnaris and all that accomplished was stressing the fish out additionally, and if an anti fungal med worked it's probably because it was an actual fungal infection and not columnaris.. I could be wrong on the fungus clear but I've never heard of that med for curing columnaris (which is a bacterial infection).
> 
> Good luck! Kanaplex will likely take care of it. If you see it improving but not 100% gone you can safely do a second dose after a water change.


I apologize, I must have been misinformed but I had read that water conditioners such as Prime would take out any of the bleach solution that remained on the rocks.

I'll take a picture of the cottony spot in question. I have spent a lot of time reading about Columnaris and it fits the description to a "T". I don't just have him on Maracyn 1 but also Maracyn 2. I had read that the combination of both would help fight the fungus. I do not have any fish stores anywhere near me and the closest was a Petsmart so Maracyn 1 and 2 were the only things I had readily available and had read would work. I have ordered Kanaplex and expedited shipping so it should be here shortly. The garlic guard has also been ordered, and after this out break is under control and he has time to relax I'll add that to his diet.

After he is treated with simply the Kanaplex I plan on having him temporarily in the critter care kit until I have his other tank thoroughly clean. I just want to make sure the fungus is killed completely. I appreciate your help very much. I'm trying my best to explain the situation at hand and I apologize if any of it comes off confusing. I'm just trying to do the best for my fish, and I appreciate all the advice I have received. I have owned betta fish throughout my life and have never dealt with one with much illness besides for the occasional swim bladder. All my bettas lived to the ripe age of three or four. This is all new to me and I'm trying my best to digest as much information as possible to help my little guy. 

Thanks for the information about second dosing of Kanaplex. Good to know and I'll definitely keep a sharp eye on how well he is doing under the medication.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

callistra said:


> Sorry but never bleach anything porous. There's a chance for it to hold in the bleach solution. If you treat right in the tank there should be no reason to super clean everything like that. But if you want to be really safe then not like it will hurt.
> 
> I'm not sure why you need to put additional meds in the tank.. the 10% bleach solution soak will kill anything. Tetracycline will not work for Columnaris and all that accomplished was stressing the fish out additionally, and if an anti fungal med worked it's probably because it was an actual fungal infection and not columnaris.. I could be wrong on the fungus clear but I've never heard of that med for curing columnaris (which is a bacterial infection).
> 
> Good luck! Kanaplex will likely take care of it. If you see it improving but not 100% gone you can safely do a second dose after a water change.


Sorry, this is mostly bad advice and incorrect information!

The bleach solution is generally safe, if it's porous and can be boiled go that route. You're correct about Prime neutralizing it. I personally used Oxy Clean to disinfect all of the ornaments and such from my tank. Oxy Clean produces it's own hydrogen peroxide. I take it you've never had a bout with a strong strain of columnaris. If you had you would know that it's tenacious beyond all reason and WILL come back if you don't wipe it out. 

Tetracycline WILL kill most gram negative bacteria and will kill columnaris I know this from first hand experience, plus the large number of people (and industries) who use it for just that. Jungle Fungus Clear, is primarily an antibiotic since most "fungal" infections are misdiagnosed. Kanaplex would work as well, but in my experience it's hard to find and I haven't read many success stories of it battling columnaris. Most people can pretty easily find API tetracycline, AQ salt, and JFC. This combo won't stress your fish that much, I've never lost a fish treating with this combo and the turn around is usually startlingly quick (fish is lethargic and clamped, 12 hours later up and moving). I have three columnaris survivors all doing great to this day, all treated with this line up of meds.


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## OrvillesSlave (Nov 15, 2011)

Well the Kanaplex finally came together. I paid more in shipping to get it as quickly as possible but unfortunately that did not make much of a difference. Orville still is active, eating, and flaring. I did a 50 percent water change before putting in the Kanaplex (I read the directions prior). I'm keeping my fingers cross that this stuff nips it in the butt. I'll keep this updated.


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## ggriffin411 (Sep 21, 2011)

Could it be Saprolegnia? They kind of look the same unless you look at them under a microscope.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

ggriffin411 said:


> Could it be Saprolegnia? They kind of look the same unless you look at them under a microscope.


This is always a possibility, Saprolengia usually takes hold if the fish has a would, or has had fin rot. Columnaris is usually in the gills and around the mouth. It's usually best to treat for both of them unless you're certain it's one or the other (which as you said takes a microscope). My policy on my fish has been quarantine, and treat asap if I see any type of tufts or "wool" that springs up randomly and last more than a few hours.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Be careful over treating with a lot of different products-the Betta can get toxic..and you need to be mindful of the Balance- both good and bad bacteria-since these products can't tell the difference-you can sometimes make things worse by killing everything both good and bad-often the good bacteria is what can help keep the bad bacteria under control-this can also disrupt antibody development and sometimes over treating can mask important signs/symptoms.

The bacterium responsible for columnaris-Flexibacter is ever present-or always in the water and no amount of cleaning, bleaching...etc....will rid it from the tank-its the fish immune response that keeps it from infecting....Stress is the leading cause that can compromise the immune response-not just water quality issues but sudden changes in temp and chemistry that can stress a fish-you can also create an environment that is more suited for the bad bacteria and cause higher than normal levels in the system.....
You also have Aeromonas and Mycobacterium

The best treatment I have found for this-High dose aquarium salt 3tsp/gal, tannins, water movement or high dissolved oxygen and water changes.

You have two strains of this-one that will usually kill the fish in 12-24h that eats the flesh away and one that the fish can survive-this usually presents itself in the form of fuzzy white-off grey area on/about but not limited to the head, mouth, gills and back-often looking like a saddle.

You want to be careful boiling rock and gravel-since they can explode...

While bleach is not really needed and won't do much for some bacteria-any residue can be taken care of by dechloranating products.

Saprolegnia spores are always in the tank feeding on organic matter-waiting for a break in the tissue, immunosuppressed to infect the fish along with Achyla another fungi both being opportunistic as most fungi.....


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