# Multiple males in large community tank?



## Yunalesca (Jul 13, 2012)

I was at my LFS today picking up some bits and pieces and spotted the most amazing Betta fish, stunning purple half moon male.
now I already have 3 tanks to look after with a reef tank in the planning stages and do not really want another,however small!

LFS guy knows me so is familiar with my tanks and suggested keeping two or 3 in my main tank, at which point I left, muttering something about ho he was clearly insane but had seemed such a nice man untill then 
However, on reading the fish profile here I spotted this :

It is stressed enough that some bettas will actually prefer living with several species than by themselves. In the wild, even several males live together in ditches and klongs, frequently sparring against each other to show dominance but rarely killing each other which in an aquarium, unfortunately, is most likely to happen without providing plenty of tank space and plants for the loser to escape.


Which would suggest it is possible..........

So, I am posting for advice. 
My main tank is a 5 ft long, 100 US gallon general community, kept at 25 c, PH 6.6 with a mix of soft acidic loving fish(various small tetra, harlequin rasbora, ancistrus plecos ).
Sand substrate plenty of plants(as in need to trim every other week or the fish vanish into the jungle  ) bog wood and rocks.

Is adding one (or more) betta a possibility or simply asking for disaster?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

It is a terrible idea. Also domestic Bettas are way more aggressive. 600 Hundred years of selecting the most aggressive Bettas. Pet Bettas are descended from fighting Bettas of Thailand.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

It can be done actually. But a pond maybe needed for this. I'm not sure if 100 gallons is enough for this, but it's possible. As Choclate said, our Bettas here are way more aggressive than the wild ones. They are a different species as the wild ones.


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## Yunalesca (Jul 13, 2012)

Thankyou both for your speedy responses!
I do understand how artificial these fish are, and that the traits we have considered desirable have led to a hyper aggressive fish, which IMO is a great shame- they are so beautiful.

But thats why we research and discuss thing instead of impulse buying 
The shop was happy to put the purple boy on hold for me while I thought things over, so just for clarity multiple males would (as expected) be creating a bloodbath , is it also a no to a single male in this tank?
Obviously that would be with my iso tank on stand by for immediate removal at signs of aggression and cash set aside for his own tank should it be needed.
Obviously I want this fish, but duty of care is to the fish already resident in my tank first and foremost.

ETA _ I wonder if someone from site admin could amen the profile for this fish, as the quoted passage is a little misleading.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> It can be done actually. But a pond maybe needed for this. I'm not sure if 100 gallons is enough for this, but it's possible. As Choclate said, our Bettas here are way more aggressive than the wild ones. They are a different species as the wild ones.


There are over 50 species B.splendens was domesticated from wild ones the ones domesticated are the same species as the original but different. A researcher put 2 male Bettas in a pond both went to the middle and fought. I always wanted a 50 to one hundred gallon 5 assassin snails One male Betta filter CO2 canister and tons of plants.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yunalesca said:


> Thankyou both for your speedy responses!
> I do understand how artificial these fish are, and that the traits we have considered desirable have led to a hyper aggressive fish, which IMO is a great shame- they are so beautiful.
> 
> But thats why we research and discuss thing instead of impulse buying
> The shop was happy to put the purple boy on hold for me while I thought things over, so just for clarity multiple males would (as expected) be creating a bloodbath , is it also a no to a single male in this tank?


thank you for asking the general rule which applies to Bettas except the more aggressive ones drab color not looking like them or related not a fin nipper always good to have a back up plan. P.S.for a tank with a male and other fish needs a lot of hiding spots no such thing as a too big tank. But you can do that fish females and other tank mates but there can not be a male with them but I have heard of Blind males with females.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Yuna- Males can be with tropical freshwater fish if they're not nippy and don't have colorful fins. It's great the store holds. 
Choc- Um, thanks? You didn't have to tell me all that but it's great to have additional info.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

I would say if you want a bunch of betta together get females. I had a horrible incident long ago when I was in middle school. We were cleaning my two boys tanks out and the tanks were set next to each other. One fish jumped into the others tank and killed him. If they will do that much just to kill a fish in another tank imagine what they would do to each other in the same tank.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

You could house several pairs of Betta imbellis in your community tank. They tend to be fairly peaceful amongst each other and while the males may spar, they won't fight to the death like splendens tend to do. 

While they might look like ugly brown fish in store, they are actually quite stunning when you get them home and settle them in. They are also one of the more hardier and less fussy species of wild betta, being from the same complex as splendens, so your tank sounds perfect for them.

As an added bonus, you might also get them to spawn without any added fuss, as wild species don't usually run the risk of one partner maiming or killing the other during courtship.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> You could house several pairs of Betta imbellis in your community tank. They tend to be fairly peaceful amongst each other and while the males may spar, they won't fight to the death like splendens tend to do.
> 
> While they might look like ugly brown fish in store, they are actually quite stunning when you get them home and settle them in. They are also one of the more hardier and less fussy species of wild betta, being from the same complex as splendens, so your tank sounds perfect for them.
> 
> As an added bonus, you might also get them to spawn without any added fuss, as wild species don't usually run the risk of one partner maiming or killing the other during courtship.


Except Wild B.splendens which is also the most common domestic of the 3.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

True wild betta splendens as not as aggressive as domesticated splendens and provided you give enough cover and there is enough space for each fish to get away from each other, then you could probably house 1-2 pairs of wild splendens together. IBC site only recommends a 30 gallon tank for a group of them and the OP has 100 gallons to play with.

However, it is very very hard to find a true wild splendens. I believe that even in their native home, a lot of what gets pulled out of ditches and paddies are hybrids nowadays. Kind of sad as true wild splendens are very nice looking.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Not my point even wild B.splendens fight a lot just no as much B.Imbellis is better.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

I think OFL has successfully kept multiple males together in a tank, but that's only after many, many generations of breeding. you'd have to ask her about it.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

djembekah said:


> I think OFL has successfully kept multiple males together in a tank, but that's only after many, many generations of breeding. you'd have to ask her about it.


Are you talking to me?


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

oh no, i was talking to the OP, but i'm sure you're free to ask her as well!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

djembekah said:


> oh no, i was talking to the OP, but i'm sure you're free to ask her as well!


Really the OP struck me as a first time Betta keeper or very few Bettas and never breed them not to be mean that is what the OP sounded like to me.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

djembekah said:


> I think OFL has successfully kept multiple males together in a tank, but that's only after many, many generations of breeding. you'd have to ask her about it.


Yeah, she does but she didn't use just random males from the store, which is where the OP is getting them, she has kept them together for at least a couple generations and were bred to be peaceful. Almost all bettas at the store have just been bred for cash.

Unless you divide the tank you can't keep male splendids together, they will seek each other out and fight, the weaker one might try to flea, but the stronger male will just seek out the other and kill him whether stress or literally biting him. A lot of wild males can be housed together though, just make sure they are in proper pairs.

How much current do you have? I know that tetras like more flow and for such a big tank you don't want a betta in there if it is going to be blown around, especially a long gunned males.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

Ohh. I can't tell if the OP is a first time betta keeper or not, was just stating that Oldfishlady has done it.

I noticed Yunalesca, you asked if one male betta in your community would be a nono. My PK male does really well with tank mates, it really depends on the fish, even within a species.



kfryman said:


> Yeah, she does but she didn't use just random males from the store, which is where the OP is getting them, she has kept them together for at least a couple generations and were bred to be peaceful. Almost all bettas at the store have just been bred for cash.


i did say that too


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## magnum (May 7, 2012)

I do know that some Thailand breeders keep there males in large community tanks. By large, I mean REALLY big. Possibly 200 plus Gallons. Of course, this is a huge risk. I do know some males will live quite companionably with females, but then you also run the risk of them breeding. The safest bet is to probably have some Wild's or Strohi in there.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

djembekah said:


> Ohh. I can't tell if the OP is a first time betta keeper or not, was just stating that Oldfishlady has done it.
> 
> I noticed Yunalesca, you asked if one male betta in your community would be a nono. My PK male does really well with tank mates, it really depends on the fish, even within a species.
> 
> ...


I was talking about OP.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

magnum said:


> I do know that some Thailand breeders keep there males in large community tanks. By large, I mean REALLY big. Possibly 200 plus Gallons. Of course, this is a huge risk. I do know some males will live quite companionably with females, but then you also run the risk of them breeding. The safest bet is to probably have some Wild's or Strohi in there.


I do not think the OP is keeping wild Betta. The OP probably does not even have access.


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## Yunalesca (Jul 13, 2012)

No, I have not kept many B splendens. I has one that belongs to my son in a 10 gallon which has always been housed alone (unless you count the pond snails!) because I am aware that this particular species of fish is known to be aggressive and I have never wanted to breed them. 
I spend enough time deal with the end result of over breeding in dogs to go do it with fish 




ChoclateBetta said:


> I do not think the OP is keeping wild Betta. The OP probably does not even have access.


 I most certainly could get wild B splendens if I wished, as my LFS has very good suppliers who are always on the look out for the more unusual fish, and I don't mind waiting as long as it takes to get the right fish.

My concern with either wild splendens or B imbellis is as previously mentioned by LittleBettaFish it is difficult to be sure you are buying a pure strain and not a hybrid.
If you end up with hybrids, the aggression levels may well be no different to keeping a group of B splendens.

I asked the original question after a chat with the shop owners son,who I know does breed many of he B splendens on sale. So it was interesting to learn hat may play a part in happy bachelor groupings.

Thankyou to those who have offered assistance


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yunalesca said:


> No, I have not kept many B splendens. I has one that belongs to my son in a 10 gallon which has always been housed alone (unless you count the pond snails!) because I am aware that this particular species of fish is known to be aggressive and I have never wanted to breed them.
> I spend enough time deal with the end result of over breeding in dogs to go do it with fish
> 
> 
> ...


I would not reccomend you getting wild bettas they are a lot hardier to care for like PH and water quality. It is very hard to keep two males or females with males together even during breeding males are tough and aggressive.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Not my point even wild B.splendens fight a lot just no as much B.Imbellis is better.


Do you ever stop to think that someone might know more about bettas than you? Or do you ever stop to consider another person's point of view? LittleBettaFish has successfully kept wild betta so I'm pretty sure she has a better understanding and more knowledge of them and their behaviour.


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

Chocolate, I am sure you have the best intentions when trying to convey information towards another person, but you do sometimes come across as a little bit of a know-it-all. That can actually deter a person from retaining the knowledge you are trying to impart upon them because they no longer want to associate with you. Perhaps try to come at this situation with a kinder and gentler approach?

I understand you are autistic and such things come as a bit of a difficulty to you but I do believe its possible for you to do so with a little extra effort. Its just something you'll have to learn to do.

I know I am not a moderator on this forum, and as such, have no position to tell people how to act on here, but I just want to keep this place peaceful.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

thecrabbytabby said:


> chocolate, i am sure you have the best intentions when trying to convey information towards another person, but you do sometimes come across as a little bit of a know-it-all. That can actually deter a person from retaining the knowledge you are trying to impart upon them because they no longer want to associate with you. Perhaps try to come at this situation with a kinder and gentler approach?
> 
> I understand you are autistic and such things come as a bit of a difficulty to you but i do believe its possible for you to do so with a little extra effort. Its just something you'll have to learn to do.


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Going by the tank specifications the OP has provided, soft acidic water, lots of cover and suitable tankmates, there is no reason not for them to choose a wild betta species. 

I have had hands-on experience with at least 15 different wild species and have successfully bred at least 7 of these, so yes I do know what I am talking about. It is one thing to read up on websites and in books about a subject, and it is another to have actual personal experience to go by. 

If you have the environment right, wild bettas are a heck of a lot easier to care for then splendens. My wilds rarely have issues with health and the only reason I lose them is through their darn suicidal jumping. 

I have four wild betta males living together in a 10 gallon tank. They have spats every now and then and someone will come out with torn fins, but they don't actively hunt down and kill each other. I have had only one species of wild betta try and kill each other, and that was ideii. They are known however, to be very aggressive towards conspecifics even to the point of the female killing the male or vice versa. But even they after a period of time within eye-sight of each other could be safely housed together without harm. 

OP if you can get your hands on imbellis I would definitely recommend you give them a shot. Wild bettas are truly beautiful in a different sense to the gaudy splendens and when in full colour and on display it will make you wonder why you even bothered with the splendens in the first place!


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

*blushes*

Thanks, Freyja.


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## Sceven (May 22, 2012)

Sorry to hijack for a second Yunalesca, but LittleBettaFish so just form your experience would a domestic Betta fight with a wild species? (I'm not in the car on the way to buy one just curious)

@ CrabbyTabby that was far more eloquent then I would have put it :lol:


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm eloquent?  No one's ever said that about me. Thanks! :mrgreen:


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I had a couple of imbellis in with my sorority and they did fine in there. Didn't tend to get picked on or singled out by the females and tended not to react aggressively towards them either.

However, I think a male domesticated splendens would attack or at least fight with a smaller wild betta species, particularly another male. I think they would definitely go an imbellis, smaragdina or mahachai male as they are all from the same complex. 

However, wouldn't like to see a splendens up against a big mouthbrooder. My ideii have huge mouths on them and I could just see them trying to swallow a smaller fish whole haha.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

For a wild type Betta Imbellis sounds great. I know wild Betta Splendens are better community tank. But they fight just not to the death they are not selectively bred wild B.Splendens do a lot of times have domestic blood do to escapes. Is this the way that does not sound like a know it all? I so wish I had the soft water tanks and suppliers/cash to get some maybe some day.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

No, Crabby, you aren't a moderator and I think you could be a little kinder and gentler to someone who has trouble communicating and making himself understood. Have some patience and understanding please.


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

I was as kind an gentile as I could be. I simply couldn't be any nicer in saying what I said.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> No, Crabby, you aren't a moderator and I think you could be a little kinder and gentler to someone who has trouble communicating and making himself understood. Have some patience and understanding please.


Sorry DQ but I have to disagree here. Crabby was kinder and gentler than many of us here would have been, myself included. Though Chocobetta may have conditions or issues that make his communication difficult -I think it's bad grammar skills- he comes off as rude and obnoxious more often than not. He does not consider others point of view or experiences and talks...errr...writes overa people. If we are called to make an effort to be understanding of him and his issues, he should also be called to make an effort to be more respectful and kinder to us. His conditions do not give him a free pass.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

-skips through- good lord nothing has changed... ANYWHO...

Bettas are of the same family as GOURAMIS. I found with most aggressive type fish such as gouramis and bettas, although something can be POSSIBLE is it REALLY in the best interest of the fish, or to "make it easier"? Sure ONE tank is easier... But come breeding time and conditions, crossing paths, and such.... It doesn't work. SURE I have seen people keep a male and female who "love each other" together. THEY DIE DAYS APART not because of HEARTBREAK but because of STRESS bringing on ILLNESS.

Anyone see where this is going?

Although the plan is lovely, I find if you had w
anted to do as planned, be prepared. I will say I had enough trouble dividing two males in a heavily stuffed 20 or 40 without one being stressed. Without sight, or perhaps without knowledge of the other fish's existence in the water there is still that delightful scent that is much like a "here I am! This is me!" signal common in sororities. Many fish, can get stressed from this. Which is why I had over 13 tanks, half of which were NOT divided, and even had females separated (plakats mostly it seemed) because they were the stressers or the stressees.

Now if you still would like to try, stuff that tank so full of gentle fabric, silicone and silk plants along with live plants until you cannot see through to the other side. Add "sight blocks" like large rocks and ornaments along with caves and dwellings. A neat idea would even to try having driftwood! Allow tons of stuff in there to avoid any chance of fights. Keep in mind some bettas fight to the death, others fight to "make a point" and part ways LOL. Some won't fight, some show off. Or some jus avoid situations. It all depends on the betta. Would I do this plan with my Fighter, a Veil Tail and my wimpy Half Moon? Probably not. Equality for size, strength and speed is best!


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

Freyja said:


> Sorry DQ but I have to disagree here. Crabby was kinder and gentler than many of us here would have been, myself included. Though Chocobetta may have conditions or issues that make his communication difficult -I think it's bad grammar skills- he comes off as rude and obnoxious more often than not. He does not consider others point of view or experiences and talks...errr...writes overa people. If we are called to make an effort to be understanding of him and his issues, he should also be called to make an effort to be more respectful and kinder to us. His conditions do not give him a free pass.


+1

Thanks Freyja. :mrgreen:


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Someone who has communication problems may have a problem understanding what others are saying and may get defensive because of it. As I said before, please have some patience and understanding. Justbecause Choclate comes off as rude does not give YOU the right to be rude back. If it upsets you that much then don't post in the thread.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

dramaqueen said:


> Someone who has communication problems may have a problem understanding what others are saying and may get defensive because of it. As I said before, please have some patience and understanding. Justbecause Choclate comes off as rude does not give YOU the right to be rude back. If it upsets you that much then don't post in the thread.


Free pass...gotcha. But like I mentioned before communication goes both ways. If I have to make an effort so should he as there are others in this forum with issues that put forth the effort to consider others as well.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Could you guys drop this?? Take it to the rant thread. Or better yet make an "Argue thread" :/ sorry but really. This is ridiculous. Communication online lacks an actual voice or tone therefore always suck no matter the person or reasoning behind the end, please stop. S'posed to help the OP not buy them with rants, arguments and tension.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not ranting; I'm communicating.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Arguing actually. My point is drop it here and drag it elsewhere. It's so annoying to see 50 threads arguing over something not even relevant. So STOP. All of you.

And m apologies to the OP for having to actually be bothered with this kind of stuff


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

No need to apologize on my behalf and I'm hurt that you yelled at me :-(


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## SDragon (Sep 26, 2011)

I say that as long as you have plenty of plants and hiding places go for it, my best friend had 2 males in her 50 gal and I don't even think they realized there was another male.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Sena, I completely agree with you. Let's just drop the whole thing
Some people say they have housed males together and had success. I agree with SDragon 's suggestion of having lots of plants and hiding places. I would also keep an eye on the fish to make sure they're able to live with each other.


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## SDragon (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks Drama. . And I'd completely agree with you. Drop it.


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