# stocking ten gallon.



## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

ok so i am moving up to a ten gallon from a 5.5g

i already have the new tank and im planting it with topsoil and black sand substrate and i want it to grow in heavily

stock i have in my 5.5 gallon right now are my betta a few small amano shrimp and a nerite snail.

im going to wait a while to add my fish to my new tank so in the mean time im dreaming up new stock i might be able to put into it

i really like corys but im in a small town and my LFS doesnt have any corydoras habrosus

ive been digging in all the forums and cant find much really

all info is greatly appreciated


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## Nigel Nortonberry (Jan 25, 2014)

Welcome, welcome!
I would suggest keeping the betta as a centre piece fish and possibly have some smaller additions that are peaceful and non-nippy. Possibly tetras or otos (if available in CA). It is a 10gallon so try not to overload it too much  .


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

well i definitely want my betta to be the center of my tank. im just looking for some nano fish to go in there too

there arent too many options at my LFS here in my small town so im looking for all the suggestions i can get so i can put together a list of options to look at while at the LFS with my daughters.

i thought that otos needed more space?


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## Nigel Nortonberry (Jan 25, 2014)

Probably best to check your LFS and note down all the potential species then do the process of elimination? It is hard for me to say since I am in Aust 

Otos would be a good addition to combat food wastage (if any) and algae growth. They are notorious for the difficult introduction, with a lower than average mortality rate as virtually all of them are sourced from the wild. 
They grow to about ~5cm long and as long as your tank has plenty of leafy plants to hide around, if should be no dramas.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

i had thought about that idea originally but most of the fish at my LFS are small right now and will get a lot bigger (at least ones i asked about so far) and isnt getting me too far i live in a small town and while my LFS and the fish lady there are great, my options are limited...

so im thinking the other way around will have better results for me

a list of what i could possibly have compared to what my LFS actually has

from what you said about otos, they sound pretty good so ill look into them too


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## Nigel Nortonberry (Jan 25, 2014)

I understand.
Well, may I suggest 
-neon tetras (or cardinals, cardinals are more hardier from my experience)
-a snail? (mystery snail, although they produce abit more waste than I would like)
-some small minnows
-rasboras (purple harlequin look great) 

Always keep in mind the bioload of the aquarium.


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## Synnipuff (May 5, 2016)

I don't suggest cories if you're using aquarium salt.
Depends on the temperament of the betta. My crown murdered his 8 other neon tetra buddies and left one to harass when he needs to--.


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## Euro (Nov 13, 2015)

-calls from the back rows- NANO FISH! :3!!!

I highly suggest nanofish if you can order on line or if you ahve a good LFS. Keep your betta as a center piece and in a ten, since nano fish are so micro, you could get away with a school of 8-10 of some "mid range" fish and like 6-8 pygmy cories (love me some habrosus cories). Just make sure its heavily planted for the sake of other fish getting away from a betta who might be a little more aggressive

http://www.franksaquarium.com/nanofish.htm
http://msjinkzd.com/stocklist/ (check, not all of them are nano fish)
https://aquaticarts.com/collections/nano-fish


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Ask if your LFS has Rasbora. Could you see if they can order any fish for you?

It would help if you would post a photo of the entire tank. To have tank mates it needs to be well planted with plenty of broken lines of sight. This is for the Betta as well as the tank mates. A Betta might be able to harrass other fish but they can't catch them in a properly planted tank unless the tank mates were already compromised. 

Any shoaling fish needs a minimum of six for security and optimum health and natural behavior. People buy fewer but it is not making the needs of the species foremost.

Another option are African Dwarf Frogs. I have a friend in CA who sells healthy, active ADF. I've had two for three years and the other four for two. I buy all of my fish from www.msjinkzd.com. If you ask she will gladly make suggestions. She's helped me tremendously.

I would not suggest Minnows. Their highest *tolerable* temperature is the lowest for a Betta so one species will suffer. Oto eat algae so if the tank is new it won't have enough. You'll need to supplement feed. Algae wafers are fine if you get the kind that don't have protein/meat in them. I prefer seaweed sheets. This is an excellent article on feeding:

http://otocinclus.com/feeding.html

Enjoy the research!


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

What are your water parameters? Hard or soft water? Whats the PH, Some hard water fish will not do well in soft water, and some soft water fish will not do well in hard water.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 ^^ Especially if they are wild caught.


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## MadtownD (Aug 29, 2014)

I second aquatic arts nanofish. Got some tank raised microdevario kubotai today. I'm still working on getting my tank heavily planted enough to add the betta.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

as always thank you for all the info everyone! i went into my LFS on my lunch break today and here is a list of fish they have that could be some possibilities. ill put a * in front of the ones i really like the most

harlequin rasbora*
striped raphael cat
spotted raphael cat
yoyo loach*
ghost cat
tiger barb
green tiger barb
ember tetras*
chineese algae eater*
she is getting more panda corys in a couple weeks to a month(about when ill be ready to buy)***
zebra danio
pearl danio (i think, there was no label and i forgot to ask her)
african dwarf frogs
neon tetras

my tank is not ready yet and my plant options are limited so im going to order a whole bunch of plants online and hope it goes well.

this is all in the brainstorming phase, i feel like i jumped into my 5g setup so i want to really do this one right. i want to know which fish i want to keep so i can research how best to set up their habitat. 

what id really love is to have betta patrolling the top with some panda corys hangin out in the bottom and some rasboras or preferably ember tetras since they are so tiny. like 1/4" - 1/2" each but the rasboras are like 3/4"

so like 1 betta, 6-7 embers, and maybe 5 panda corys.

is this a possibility or should i just go for more pandas and forget the mid range fish? i really love the micro fish but if it came between them and the pandas id have to go with pandas

i have hard water where i am at although i dont know the exact numbers. i dont have the master test kit or anything, just the ammonia alerts.

i think my 5 gallon is cycled when i checked at the LPS a couple days ago i was reading between 1 ppm nitrites and i currently read zero ammonia.

i will be using the same filter and filter media in the ten gallon and ive read that helps a lot plus i will be getting a lot of plants shipped to me soon to help with the filtration as well

i will be adding my betta to the new tank with the equipment doing daily water changes, doses of prime, and growing in the plants until the tank is good and ready, then i will finally add the fish that we finally decide would be best

again thank you all for your input!


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

Euro said:


> -calls from the back rows- NANO FISH! :3!!!
> 
> I highly suggest nanofish if you can order on line or if you ahve a good LFS. Keep your betta as a center piece and in a ten, since nano fish are so micro, you could get away with a school of 8-10 of some "mid range" fish and like 6-8 pygmy cories (love me some habrosus cories). Just make sure its heavily planted for the sake of other fish getting away from a betta who might be a little more aggressive
> 
> ...


i love a lot of the fish these sites have in stock. especially the phoenix rasboras and the c. habrosus and the otos.

but my question is how risky is it buying fish online? what would i expect in an online fish delivery process? or should i stick with the options my LFS has for me


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> yoyo loach*


So you recommend a fish that gets to about 5 inches long and should be kept in a group of 5 or more for a 10 gallon tank? Or am I missing something. 

striped raphael cat *Max. Size*: 7"


*Spotted Raphael Catfish Adult Size: *8 inches


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I've bought Habrosus Cory from www.msjinkzd.com and also Ember Tetra. Habrosus are bottom dwellers while Pygmy Cory are mid-tank. So a Betta, Ember Tetra and Habrosus or Panda Cory would be good. I have Ember Tetra and they are peaceful; as are the Habrosus. I also have Celestial Pearl Danio which I think may be those unlabeled "Pearl Danio."

Nano fish can be shy so they need lots of plants to feel secure. Once the tank is cycled you could have six Habrosus and 7-10 Ember Tetra. Instead of the Habrosus you could have five Panda Cory.

Oh, almost forgot: I have Harlequin Rasbora, too. But I really love the Ember. And the heavy planting is just as much for the Betta as the other fish. While the Ember, IMO, aren't nippy the Harlequin Rasbora can be. The Ember will get to around .75" when mature.

Enjoy!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

NickAu said:


> So you recommend a fish that gets to about 5 inches long and should be kept in a group of 5 or more for a 10 gallon tank? Or am I missing something.
> 
> striped raphael cat *Max. Size*: 7"
> 
> ...


That's the OP giving giving us the promised list of fish readily available at the LFS. And the asterisk denote the ones especially liked for our opinion.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

NickAu said:


> So you recommend a fish that gets to about 5 inches long and should be kept in a group of 5 or more for a 10 gallon tank? Or am I missing something.
> 
> striped raphael cat *Max. Size*: 7"
> 
> ...


haha yeah i think there is a crossed connection here. these are just fish that were all available at the LFS during my visit today and i liked. they were pretty small so i wrote them down to ask the community their opinions

thank you for that info though, i clearly wont be able to keep any of them any time soon


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I've bought Habrosus Cory from www.msjinkzd.com and also Ember Tetra. Habrosus are bottom dwellers while Pygmy Cory are mid-tank. So a Betta, Ember Tetra and Habrosus or Panda Cory would be good. I have Ember Tetra and they are peaceful; as are the Habrosus. I also have Celestial Pearl Danio which I think may be those unlabeled "Pearl Danio."
> 
> Nano fish can be shy so they need lots of plants to feel secure. Once the tank is cycled you could have six Habrosus and 7-10 Ember Tetra. Instead of the Habrosus you could have five Panda Cory.
> 
> ...


alright so now im getting the ball rolling, id love to have the embers and some pandas with my betta.

crazy that the embers are more peacful than the rasboras, ive read the it was the other way around. so glad to hear from people with experience!

so my next question is how many embers and how many pandas should i get for each species to be totally secure without over stocking? it seems like everything ive read says corys need at least 6 but personal accounts say 4-5 will be perfectly happy

i want to feel secure that my fish are actually comfortable, not just think they look happy so while 4-5 corys and more embers sounds awesome to me im curious as to what the minimum number of panda corys i should actually get really is?

many thanks!


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## Euro (Nov 13, 2015)

for the harlequins could always try Espei's rasboras as well? pretty much the same thing except espeis stay a little smaller, are brighter IMO, school tighter and are just as hardy :]


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

lol i somehow didnt see that russeltheshihtzu already answered my number of each species question

so ill just ask if 5 panda corys is still ok rather than six

i like habrosus and panda both i would just have to special order habrosus online

@Euro ive seen pics of the Espei's and ive heard the glow? is that true


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## Euro (Nov 13, 2015)

Kinda sorta, the orange on them is very bright and they are awesome looking under the right light. I love mine to bits XD


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

yeah they definitely look beautiful, unfortunately id have to order them online and that kinda scares me hahaha


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## Euro (Nov 13, 2015)

I got mine online and they all came in alive. Got them from aquaticarts.com, would highly recommend that place.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You could have 7-10 Ember Tetra and five Panda Cory.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> That's the OP giving giving us the promised list of fish readily available at the LFS. And the asterisk denote the ones especially liked for our opinion.


Oh my bad. 

I was in LFS today and saw a Black Ghost knife, It was like 3 inches long, My wife said NO to a 8 foot long by 3 foot wide by 3 foot tall tank, one day.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

i cant wait for my tank to be ready! im going to dirt and sand the tank

i think me and my daughters will all get a lot out of this nano tank

everyone has been such a great help


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

NickAu said:


> Oh my bad.
> 
> I was in LFS today and saw a Black Ghost knife, It was like 3 inches long, My wife said NO to a 8 foot long by 3 foot wide by 3 foot tall tank, one day.


all good.

i saw a black ghost knife today too but it was about 10" long! absolutely stunning fish

although my favorites in my LFS are the discus tank and the blood parrot chiclid

my oldest also loves the discus and my youngest gets stuck on the turtle

i can see i have a long way to go to get to where we want to be in the hobby XD


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> i cant wait for my tank to be ready! im going to dirt and sand the tank
> 
> i think me and my daughters will all get a lot out of this nano tank


I think both of you will enjoy it.

As you are going dirt and sand heres an interesting article, It has some great tips.



> 1 inch layer of inexpensive, generic potting soil (or "top soil") available from any garden centres or various home improvement stores. (John Innes number 3 recipe is ideal). Avoid soils containing chemical fertilizers (sulphates and nitrates will be converted to toxic H2S and nitrite after soil is submerged). Phosphate and calcium fertilizers (i.e., a little bone meal mixed with soil) may be beneficial. Get non-sterile 'aquatic pond soil' if it's available.
> 
> 
> 1 inch of medium fine gravel (or very shallow layer of sand) to cover the soil layer (the soil bacteria need oxygen, so don't smother the soil layer with rocks, driftwood, etc)


 http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

so im looking up panda cory cats and there is this site that says they need 30 gallons and get up to 2 1/2"??? 

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1161+934&pcatid=934


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

very nice thank you!

i actually live in a small mountain town though so ive looked and looked and all of my "organic" soils available all include additives

but since i live in a small mountain town my own topsoil in my yard is actually extremely good quality dirt. and easy to clean.

so i know i should poke around the substrate often but i was actually thinking about trying to add large rocks between the dirt and sand to sort of make a raised ground effect for aquascaping.

i thought just a flat bottom all the way through would be kinda dull but i dunno


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Ignore Liveaquaria. They don't always get it right. According to a catfish-specific site they get around 2".

I buy all of my fish online with no issues. If at any time you go that route have Seachem Prime on hand and add one drop as soon as you open the bag.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

here is what ive got going on with the ten gallon. water is still clearing up and i need to really clean the outside but here it is so far.

still need to order a bunch of plants online


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Looking good!


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

thanks


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

ok so here is an update on stocking my tank ive put in an order for the following plants:

java moss
anubias nana
rotalla indica
small amazon sword
jungle vallisneria
dwarf sagitaria

plants i already have:

ten leaves of java fern
15 anacharis stems
pothos cutting growing out of filter

checked water parameters at the LFS today and tank is cycled reading:

ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: less than .2
PH: about 6.5

so the LFS did actually end up getting C. Habrosus as well as panda corys. i have been checking the two species out and i definitely like the pandas more. so i think ill be picking them up tomorrow afternoon or saturday.

im undecided about the mid range fish idea and was wondering if anyone would share their opinions.

i was originally thinking ember tetras but now im wondering if i should just get more corys, stick with the original plan or if i should get rasboras instead. after seeing them in the tanks i think i like rasboras a bit more than the embers but i definitely like the corys more than both mid range species

all thoughts are appreciated


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Do not use Seachem Excel if you have Anacharis. Even Seachem acknowledges Excel will melt Anacharis. Some don't have that problem but, to me, it's not worth it.

I think you need to put in the fish you like. You're the one looking at the tank. ;-) That being said, I wouldn't overload it with bottom dwellers. If you want Cory/Catfish instead of Rasbora or Embers you could get Pygmy Cory as they are mid-tank dwellers.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

i wonder if the LFS has the pygmies rather than the habrosus. the ones ive been looking at were definitely hanging out in the middle the majority of the time and i didnt think they'd go well with the tetras or rasboras


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

well right now i just have dirt and a florescent light no ferts used so far and my plants seem to be growing pretty decently (i think) i know they are fast growing plants anyway so i was thinking about getting some sort of fertilizer like seachem flourish soon though. is that the same thing as excel? if so im willing to sacrifice the anacharis for all the other plants if it dies (is that what "melt" means?) i think i ordered a lot of plants but i dunno honestly


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Seachem Flourish Comprehensive is a fertilizer; Excel is a carbon source. I don't know if you've seen my tanks (they're in my journal) but all I use are root and Iron tabs and a bit of Comprehensive when I remember. Iron helps keep red plants red and Swords also need them. If you can find a Red Flame Sword (I get mine from JDAquatics) they are small enough for a 10 gallon; only get around 6". I have some in all of my tanks from 5.5 gallons to 20. Easy to grow and add a touch of color. The plant under Woodrow is a Red Flame in a 5.5 to give you an idea of size:









Don't mind the Hair Algae; that's the tank next to a window. Using Excel to kill it.


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## NickAu (Sep 28, 2015)

> Ignore Liveaquaria.


+1

I only use TFF our parent site, Seriously fish and loaches.com


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Seachem Flourish Comprehensive is a fertilizer; Excel is a carbon source. I don't know if you've seen my tanks (they're in my journal) but all I use are root and Iron tabs and a bit of Comprehensive when I remember. Iron helps keep red plants red and Swords also need them. If you can find a Red Flame Sword (I get mine from JDAquatics) they are small enough for a 10 gallon; only get around 6". I have some in all of my tanks from 5.5 gallons to 20. Easy to grow and add a touch of color. The plant under Woodrow is a Red Flame in a 5.5 to give you an idea of size:
> 
> View attachment 786177
> 
> ...


i love that red flame sword. i think it would look great with my black the only red plant i ordered was rotalla indica. so my questions about root tabs and iron tabs/red clay are if i have soil in my tanks do i need them right away?(dont the plants feed off of iron in the soil?) are they better than Seachem comprehensive for all plants or only root feeding plants? are either root tabs or comprehensive good enough to use without the other?


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

NickAu said:


> +1
> 
> I only use TFF our parent site, Seriously fish and loaches.com


yeah im really seeing how difficult it is to find consistent information online.

im just sticking to this site for my information now.

at least if there is conflicting opinions here they come with more detail and explanation

soo much more encouraging


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Is it a dirted tank? Can't help with dirted tanks as I've only had gravel and now I use sand.

Did I say earlier that next Saturday, May 21, is AquaBid's SNE? I'll make the announcement and give pariculars in the Planted section on Thursday.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

yes its dirted. its just soil from the yard but its very rich mountain/ forest soil. whats SNE? i looked around aquabid a little bit the other day but all the orders i was interested in said they dont deliver to california


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

snapped this at the LFS today while getting my panda corys

anyone know if theyre habrosus or pygmies? notice how theyre in the middle of the tank not the bottom?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

They're either Pygmy or Hastus; they look a lot alike. Both species are mid-tank dwellers. I have Hastus, too. I like the dwarf Cory.

Have you asked in the Planted section if you need Iron and Root Tabs with dirt? Oh, and there are some plants that can't be shipped to various states if they're considered invasive. JDAquatics can't get either Hornwort or Anacharis because of NC laws.

SNE is a series of one-hour auctions from 7:00 pm EDT until ???. On the left side of the homepage click on "One-Hour Auctions" and that's where they are. Depending on the vendors discount prices can be on plants, equipment, inverts, etc.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

hey guys its been a while! ive been busy

but ive also been working on my tank constantly in my free time

so my 10g tank is fully well stocked now id say with:

1 Betta Nemo is happy and healthy!
2 Otos
5 Panda cories
3 armano shrimp
2 baby nerite snails (hitched a ride with the otos)

everyone seems to be doing quite well

my plants are:

jungle val
java fern
baby java ferns
java moss
dwarf sag
dwarf tiger lilies
rotalla indica
small telancathera
anubias nana petite
amazon sword
pothos vine

pics attatched


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## aussieJJDude (Jun 9, 2012)

Just to let you know the cory in the picture are pygmies.

But also, really nice tank. Love the hardscape.


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## mannyguillen (Apr 14, 2016)

thanks! ive put a lot into it  my fish love hiding around in the moss and under the log

im not so sure they are pygmies though. that is just a bad picture of them. theyre hard to get on camera lol

from what ive seen pygmies have a stripe not really spots and these are slightly bigger than the pygmies ive seen

although i did ask my fish lady for the smallest pandas she could catch because i have a small tank lol

here is a few better pics


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