# Can't figure out what is wrong with my betta!



## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Hey everyone, I need some help, I'm new on here so I apologize if I do this wrong or are asking a repetitive question but I have had no luck in my endless searches to diagnose my poor fish Maxxy. I guess I'll start by filling this out:

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1.5 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 78 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Air stone
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellets and occasionally frozen bloodworms
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 pellets in the morning and 3 at night, or vice versa

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Usually about every 4-5 days
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? Have not tested


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Pale/dull in color, possible black edges on fins but not 100% sure
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He was a very active and interactive fish and has recently become extremely lethargic in the last week and will not eat
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Within the last week, can't think of a specific event that may have triggered it
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I have been changing his water about every two days and treating with Bettafix. Have also tried feeding him a small portion of a pea in case of constipation.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No 
How old is your fish (approximately)? I have only had him for three weeks to a month so I would guess less than a year


I have checked his symptoms as best I could but was unable to pin point a cause that matched them all. I have been wanting to get him a bigger tank but am at college and have not got the space of money yet. Hopefully soon though. It's is so sad watching him behave as he is.. he was in the process of learning a few tricks and doing so well and was so friendly! Now nothing.. he won't even come out of hiding when I near his tank anymore. Sometimes he will dart toward the surface for air but then return to rest in his log ornament or at the back of the tank behind a plant and airstone.

Thanks for all your help!


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Fin rot, and possible other things, does it look like his skin is peeling, or has he got any white spots?


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

It does sound like fin rot, usually keeping the water clean and changing it every day can fix that. Also you can use 1 tablespoon of Aquarium salt per gallon to treat. Make sure the salt is completely dissolved in the water before adding it.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

Oh...i usually just dump my salt in , but id go with Lady on this... 
And do a 100% water change. every day


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks for the replies everyone! Fin rot is definitely something I had considered. I will continue to change the water everyday I was just worried if it would stress him out too much? Taking him out of the tank that often. I'm I likely to find aquarium salt at my local pet store?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I would reccomend a 50 percent every 3 days but for now do everyday water changes.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Stop using bettafix. I am really don't recommend to use this product at all.
Just want to make sure he is not bloated. 
You wrote that he is darting. Is it also looks like he goes to the surface and gasping for air? Is he still darting? Is it also looks like he trying to rub his body on objects? Is it looks like his body sprinkle with salt or any white spots on the body.
Lady is right if it just fin rot (mild case) usually frequent water changes can fix the problem, but in his case when he is lethargic and stopped eating, it is not an option, and 1 tsp/gall not going to help i would do minimum of 2 tsp/gall of the aquarium salt with daily 100% water changes. If you can find stress coat or Kardon Fish protector would helps add to the water. 
Pre mix salt in one gall jug or if you don't have one gall use a container make sure it dissolved.

When you do 100% water changes make sure you acclimate him then he will not be stressed. Just keep him in his changing cup and add a little bit of new premix dechlorinated salt water let him sit for 5 min then do it for about 3 times this way he will get used to new chemistry/temperature.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

The nitrites/nitrates/ammonia may be high also, if he is darting....


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

He could have ammonia burn.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

....


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

MistersMom said:


> The nitrites/nitrates/ammonia may be high also, if he is darting....


 
yes but with those water changes 100% i don't think so, unless he has ammonia in his tap water, which is happened. I would think go to the pet store and check your water. Meanwhile look at him and try to see if he has all those symptoms that we asking about. Give us update. Infinitely buy aquarium salt. 
I also read that PRIME is the best to use if you have ammonia in the water. So if you can buy PRIME by Seachem.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

What was the point in that?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Seems that PRIME conditioner one of the best that removes any heaby metals , stabilizes the pH but i also spoke to someone on this forum who has ammonia in her water and she told me that PRIME one of the conditioners that really helps with this issue.

Well we don't know what is the problem with kimbooffmarz fish though. It can be completely different issue though, but differently testing the water in the store firs option.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Could be water changes


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Why did you post ...............


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Because i put a post instead of quote. So i changed it...
Also about PRIME
The best thing to do is to use Seachem Prime. It changes ammonia to ammonium which is the less dangerous of both. It only lasts about two days though so that is why it is very important to do two different water changes a week. There are other solutions such as getting plants that help reduce the ammonia but I think Prime is the best way of quickly doing it


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Or algae like Marimo.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

i have a marimo, one doens't work by itself, you need many....


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Can I ask why not to use Bettafix? Not because I don't trust your opinion, just because I am interested. 

I have not been able to notice any bloating, that was the first thing I looked for. His stomach looks a bit darker than normal but it seems to have just been because of his color loss.

I wouldn't say he is gasping for air at the top, but any time he does go up (sometimes he seems to be triggered by me being around the tank/taking the lid off) he just seems very quick to the top, takes a quick breath and goes back to the bottom. He is not at the surface very often, which is also very unusual for him. 

He has not been rubbing against anything and I haven't noticed any kind of bumps, spots, or dust on his body. He has had a very light and shiny blue spot on one side since i got him, has not grown or changed since so I figured it was just an odd pigmentation. I will post a picture of him at a healthy stage where you can see what I mean.

I bought some aquarium salt today, the box said to add 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water which worked out to just over half a teaspoon for my tank (3ml). I know you had all recommended more but I wasn't sure if there was a brand specific limit to it at all so thought I would double check with you, should I add more? 

I did see stress coat while i was out for the salt, and would have grabbed some had I known bettafix was not ideal before now!

I do acclimate him well and slowly when i do the water changes, I just feel like scooping him out of his tank every day must not be pleasant for him (maybe I'm just over sensitive?)

I considered ammonia poisoning as well but I haven't noticed any sort of inflammation around his gills or anywhere else. I guess getting my water tested will be my next step if the salt and everything doesn't work.

P.S. after looking at some old pictures of him I am quite convinced of fin rot though he doesn't come out now enough for me to see much of his fins, they were gorgeous back then.. not sure whether it's fin rot or just him looking sick in general...

Spot pics:



















And this is all I see of him now at best...


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh ya, one more quick question! I am beginning to worry about Max's non-eating.. I know Bettas can go a while without food but am wondering if I should keep trying to offer him food? I have tried a couple times to drop a pellet near him with a baster.. once he bit at it but spit it back out and swam away. Should I just leave him to eat when he's feeling better, how long could that take? Or should I maybe try offering him something more appealing like a bloodworm?


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

I believe they can go for something like a month without food. You can definitely try tempting him with something better like frozen brine shrimp and see if that helps. 
As for what's wrong with him...I can't add anything that others haven't already mentioned, except for possibly internal parasites? For that some people say any salt is fine, others say you must use epsom salts. I'm not really sure and haven't used it, so that might be a question for a more senior member.  I'm sorry to be so little help, and I hope that your little fish is feeling better soon!

Oh, and as for the water changes, I don't use filters (long story...) so I change 60 gallons of water every week and a half...(you'd think I'd just suck it up and use filters... lol...  and my guys, once they got used to the process, really don't seem to mind too much. I do make sure to put them in a darkened room while their in their cups, and I turn the lights out while I'm acclimatizing them as well, I've heard that helps too. 

Again, I hope your boy is feeling better soon!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

About Bettafix a lot of people had really bad experience. And i am talking about a lot of people. And i was reading it on 2 different forums and yahoo answers so i am really not recommending to use it.

Keep feeding him but remove uneaten food so it don't contaminate the water. Try to soak his food in the garlic juice it might help to stimulate his appetite.Just use fresh garlic (garlic press) . Just put the pellet in the squeeze garlic. If you can find frozen daphnia or brine shrimp, or blood worms. He really need to be strong to fight the disease,so of course it better if he would eat. And also garlic juice will work as preventative for parasites. 

The reason i ask about if he is gasping for air or rubbing his body on subjects also darting to rule out external parasites
Bloating,gray stomach, white,clear wormy,stringy shape poop -internal parasites. So check out his poop.
Really next step is check the water of course that will give us idea what is going on. Some people have ammonia in the water. I spoke to a few that have this problem. Really better to use PRIME in this situation. 

About aquarium salt please DO NOT FOLLOW instructions on the box it for preventative care. The instructions i gave you it proved and a lot of people used it on this forum. Pre mix at least 2 tsp/gall and do daily 100% water changes with stress coat. 

What he has now can be fatal so you really need to use right dose of the salt. And you might even need to use medications if salt will not helps. But start with salt and see if he will have any improvement. 
.


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

I have to tell you guys! I'm in the process of yet another water change and thought I may as well try feeding Maxxy while he is in his little cup so I don't have to try to get it out of the tank if he doesn't eat it. Offered him some tasty bloodworms and he gobbled them up! I think the little bugger is on the mend! The salt worked wonders! Thank you all sooooo much for your help! One final question, should I keep salt in his water while he is healing?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes. How much salt are you adding in his tank? Once you started you need to finish whole course of it. Aquarium salt can be up to 14 days. So see how he doing, minimum that you need to do treatment is 10 days. Do not stop. Do daily water changes . And refill it every day with the same amount of the salt. Feed him variety of food. It will support his immune system.Wow he start eating! Then i assume it not water that you have issue with . Did you check your water?


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

I didn't check my water no, if I notice any delay in recovery I will though. I put about a tablespoon of salt in.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

a tablespoon = about teaspoons. Good if it helping then continue. I hope he can completely recover. Keep us updated. Good luck.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I am with tablespoon per gallon.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry i think num lock was on , i meant a tablespoon = about 3 teaspoons


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Hello again guys! My little fishie did so well after all your help but sadly I think I've noticed some more decay on his fins. My asshole roommate had him following her finger as I had taught him to and then banged on his glass, since then I can't even feed him without him freaking out. I think he may have hurt himself when she scared him, or the stress may have triggered the fin rot again. Not sure  feel so bad. Hes become so reclusive again. Anyways just wanted to check and see if it was alright for me to use salt again so soon. It's been over a week since I quit the last session, will starting the salt treatment again hurt him or help?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How long ago you finished aquarium salt? Last time when you use the salt did you use it for at least 10 days?Is he eating? Is he really on the bottom of the tank all the time? Not active at all? Can you describe what you see on his fins? Is it white stringy,fuzzy white patches?


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Finished the last salt treatment on like nov 12th he seems to be eating but is too scared to get his food if anyone is around so not sure how much. He is swimming around ok when I'm not near him and all I notice on his fins is it rotting away no white patches or anything


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Can you post the picture? I am wondering if it looks like ''C'' shape? I am thinking if he bit his tail. 
If he is active and eating fine and just scared when you come to the tank i would not recommend aquarium salt, i would recommend more water changes and if you have stress coat API. Can you remind how big is your tank and how much and how often you do water changes. 
But definitely if you think his tail getting worse then i would recommend salt again 2tsp/gall. But i would hold and try water changes and really stress coat and see how he doing.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

But check if you can and make sure he is eating though. Put food and just step away make sure he is eating. Because if he stopped eating then it another story, then i would do aquarium salt. I am not sure what you mean he is scared. Is he really just scared when you come to the tank or he just refusing to eat and just swimming a little bit and then sit on the bottom or hiding .


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

That is a picture from just after the first salt treatment, I tried to get one to compare to tonight but he is hiding. I THINK the fins have gotta shorter yet.. the edges have definitely changed shape so I can only assume its because more has gone away. 

My tank is about 1.5 gallons, I am investing in a larger one very soon as I was given a couple of dwarf frogs my roommate got bored of last night. I do 100% water changes every 4-5 days, has been more recently though. 

Today I tried to feed him pellets and he spat one out and wouldnt touch the rest. I later attempted bloodworms and he ate one and then ignored me and the worms completely. 

The fear he seemed to have with anyone going near the tank seems to have gotten better. 

Another update.. I came home this evening and was trying to get him to come up for food and he wouldnt move at all. When he did decided to move, he seemed to have trouble and is doing more of a sideways swim most of the time. Also swimming down into the gravel and sliding his nose along the glass and strange stuff like that... Quite worried now


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Also, in that picture there is a major tear in his bottom fin which has now healed about 50%


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Today he is floating at the surface. Would swim to food or eat any. And his color has faded again


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

This is a pic of him tonight. Fins are so bad


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am more worry about his behavior than his fins. Swimming down into the gravel and sliding his nose along the glass and strange stuff like that....I think he might have external parasites. When i look at the first picture from yesterday, not sure if it just my eye, is his scales raised any were on his body?

Continue aquarium salt. Can you raise the temperature up to 84* but gradually about 1-2* - every hour?
His poop is normal color? Not white or clear ans wormy shape?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Just want to explain...
I just thinking if he got sick again maybe it was something that we didn't treat right way from beginning. So if he might has external parasites you need to raise the temperature up to 84-86*. Slowly though - you don't want to shock him with the temperature difference.The temperature over 84-86* will help to speed up parasites cycle and will fall faster. Some said it even can kill them.

I would take out everything and just wash with hot water and let it dry out . Don't put it back yet. Dry out and rinse in hot water all changing equipment after each uses . When you dry out parasites die without host. Dry out his changing cup also.

Use minimum of 2tsp/gall now and you might need to increase it up to 3tsp. Just give update how he doing so we can deside on the dosage. 

If you have live plants just put them in the water with NO water conditioner for a few weeks. 

Don't forget to acclimate slowly to the new water


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You also wrote he swims sideways. On the picture he is not bloated. Did he get bloated? Is it looks like that he want to swim to the bottom and then go just right back like he has air inside? Is he floating on his side? The reason that i ask this because betta can swim sideways when they have sbd or constipated. But at the same time , most of the time fish with sbd or constipation would be bloated AND he is not. Just trying to figure out what makes him sick. It important because it it SBD aquarium salt will not help.

Also did you see his poo ? Just want to make sure he don't have internal parasites.


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

Thank you again for all your help.. I guess my poor tattered fishie just couldn't get past whatever illness we have missed. He was not moving when I woke up today  I feel so horrible.


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## kimbooffmarz (Oct 30, 2012)

If it was something internal and not fin rot should I worry about the dwarf frogs I am housing? What could have been the cause? Food?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

oh so sorry i was thinking about you, waiting for update. I though it will be better. You really was doing good job for him .I am sure it was not fin rot. Not sure what the cause of him got sick, but If it external parasites like we thought , then they always present in the water environment and if fish immune system is weak then they attack the body.

Also if you never test your water i would do it. Some people have ammonia in the tap water. And even if it is it always way to bring it down and manage the care.So just check your water in case you will want to rescue another betta sometime. A lot of people on the forum saying that you can just go to the pet store and they will taste the water. He also might had something to begin with. You always have that chance to bring sick betta home, just like with all other fish or animal. You also need to disinfect the tank if you decide to bring another betta
Sorry i can't answer abut frogs maybe someone will come along to help. If not just post new thread about it.


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