# Emergency! On the verge of death!



## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

My fish is lying on the bottom of the tank gasping for air. He has been kind of laying around the tank for the last couple days. I thought maybe 76 degree water was too cold, now he is barely alive. I did a partial water change today and used the water conditioner. Nothin else has changed. HELP!!!!


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh no! What went wrong? I'm so confussed what I did to kill him.


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## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

Please answer the following questions so we can help you out. It would also help if you had a picture of him.

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)? 

_____

If he is having difficulty swimming and/or breathing, I would lower the water level so it is easier for him to surface and get air. Beyond that, we'll need more info about the situation.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10 gal
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none 

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? bettamin flakes
How often do you feed your betta fish? once a day, though i don't think he ate today or yesterday

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? twice this week 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 1/3
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? water conditioner 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? Haven't tested yet

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? nothin different
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? he has been laying around a lot recently. just recently he laid on the gravel and began gasping for air
When did you start noticing the symptoms? when i got back to work minutes ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? i don't know what to do!!!
Does your fish have any history of being ill? just his funny actions this week 
How old is your fish (approximately)? i've had him almost two weeks, other than that, i don't know


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

He's not dead yet. In fact, I just took out some of his water and he got up off the gravel and started swimming around like i startled HIM. Now he has his fins all flaired up and he's just kinded stationary. I have no clue what is going on with this dang fish!


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

Really I would imagine that it is the fault of the petstore he came from or he just wasn't a healthy betta to begin with. I do not believe that you had anything to do with it. I would put him back in the cup you got him in and with a couple of inches of water so he doesn't have to work so hard to get air. Float the cup in the tank with some tape on it to attach to the side.

I am honestly at a loss!


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't have the cup he came in any more. I think my fish is crazy. I'm convinced he is playing like he is dying for some reason. I'm worried.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

maybe it's something in the water? not really sure, I'm pretty much just making a guess based on the fact you just did a water change and he got worse, but probably wouldn't hurt to get it tested


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## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

You seem to be taking great care of him, I can't imagine what could be causing this either. Have you added anything new to his tank recently? Has his temp always remained relatively stable? Maybe he had some sort of underlying illness before you got him, unless there's something weird going on with your source water...that could be a possibility. If he's still struggling to breathe, I think it's definitely a good idea to put him in a smaller container and float it in the main tank. A ten gallon is a great home, but if he's having trouble breathing or surfacing, a smaller container will make it easier for him to get air. Hopefully it's just a weird fluke, and he recovers quickly.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, we make jokes that the water in this town will make you glow. However, I've used the water conditioner as it read on the label. Perhaps I'll start buying water or bringing different water into the office.

I probably shouldn't have done this, but I put my net in the tank and tried to nab him. I just wated to see what he would do. He put up quite the fight. I left him alone. He has been kind of floating around the tanks since. He isn't really swimming around. He kind just moves his fins a little bit and coasts about. He still has his fins spread out. I guess he's trying to tell me to back off? 

I even tried feeding him again, but he has no interest in food. 

Now he's back at the bottom of the tank with his fins spread. Just kind of sitting there. I'm going to the pet store tonight. I'll see what they say. Perhaps they can test my water for me. I hope he isn't dead when I come back into work tomorrow.


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

if you don't have smaller container, just lower water level so if he gasping for air, he doesn't have to swim so far to get some air. 
If you put your hands in the water you have to be aware that anything you put on your hands can transfer to the water and could possibly poison the fish (hand cream, hand soap etc.)


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## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

Definitely have the water tested, though not everything in the water is likely to show up in a pet/fish store test...you might want to contact your city's water department for detailed information on parameters, additives, etc., as well as any changes to the water chemistry they may have made recently. If you can get reverse osmosis water (some fish stores will sell jugs of it) you could try that and see if it helps.


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

Also you can increase the amount of water conditioner if your water is that bad. I use prime which is 2 drops per gallon. I use 3 drops per gallon for my work betta because I can smell the chlorine that comes out of the bathroom sink. At home we have a filter on our whole house so it's not an issue but work is another story.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

I found a petstore not too far from work or home. I took some of my tank water there and my ph is too high. The pet store guy was fantastic! Explained exactly how to fix this problem. Apparently, even with water conditioner, my water is still too awful. I'm going to start collecting rain water to use in my water changes. I have some powder that the store gave to start bringing down his ph. He's been in there awhile, so he might still not make it. He's a champ though and it seems like he's trying to fight on. Poor lil guy. At least I know the problem now and I am starting to fix it. I wish I had had this water tested sooner. I've learned a very valuable lesson here. I hope my problem will prevent someone else from making the same mistakes I did! LONG LIVE KING FISHY!!!


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

What was the pH?? I hope you don't drink that water. It sounds horrible!


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

The ph was around 8. I'm currently working to get it to 7. Poor guy is just suffering. And no, I don't drink the water. YUCK! Unfortunately, I figured the water conditioner would be sufficient. Clearly it wasn't. It's still far to hard and full of nasties! I'm going out to buy some bottled water for the time being. Then I'm gonna try and use nothing but rainwater. If the weather will cooperate, of course!


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

We have water very soft where I live. One of the pet store owners swears that harder water is always better for the fish and keep fish healthier. I've been adding equlibrium and and Alkaline buffer to my 20G tank and my cherry barbs never looked so nice and red before.
I know bettas may prefer softer water, but they can get used to harder water and it can make your life easier with water changes. If you want to lower your PH, you may check out the Seachem Acid Buffer.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AcidBuffer.html


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

newbie32 said:


> The ph was around 8. I'm currently working to get it to 7. Poor guy is just suffering. And no, I don't drink the water. YUCK! Unfortunately, I figured the water conditioner would be sufficient. Clearly it wasn't. It's still far to hard and full of nasties! I'm going out to buy some bottled water for the time being. Then I'm gonna try and use nothing but rainwater. If the weather will cooperate, of course!


Messing around with the PH too much will harm him! A PH of 8 is completely fine! Lots of members on here have a high PH with healthy bettas! If you keep changing his water type (i.e. rainwater, bottled water) that'll stress him more than anything, and he will be more susceptable to illness. I think your tap water is fine.


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

I am pretty sure my pH at home is 7.8. I only tested it from our cichlid tank am having a hard time remembering if i tested it before or after i added holey rock which boosts pH. It probably wouldnt make that much difference anyway. So honestly I don't know if that is really the problem.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't know. My pet store guy says 8 is too high. This stuff I'm putting in the water brings the ph down to 7 quite slowly. You have to do more than one treatment. My concern was that things would change too quickly, but I was assured it wouldn't. I'm phasing in new water. I figuer I can't keep using the bad water and all new water would be a huge change. The water is still nice and warm. I can't think of what could be wrong with my betta other than the ph. He does nothing but lay around all day and he didn't eat again today. Something is wrong.


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

There is something wrong wit your betta if he is not happy swimming around. If he could only tell you what's wrong. At this time you can only guess. Sometimes it can be simple thing like somewhere near by they were changing water pipes and some "crap" got into the water. One my bettas passed awau suddenly after water change. It looked almost like he was poisoned while other bettas were perfectly fine with the water from the same container. I've never figured out what went wrong.


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## LolaQuigs (Mar 28, 2010)

I definitely don't doubt that there's something wrong with him, but I really don't think it's pH. Using chemicals to alter pH almost always results in an unstable, fluctuating pH, which is much more harmful than one that is a little high. Bettas are a hardy fish and will easily adapt to your pH; mine is around 8.0-8.2 and I've never had a problem. But that doesn't mean that the water's not the problem.. there are all kinds of things that could go on with your source water that they don't/can't test for at a pet store. Maybe you should try rain water (reverse osmosis would be best but whatever you do don't use bottled or filtered-the filtration removes essential nutrients), but whatever you try, it needs to be something you do consistently and full-time, to avoid shocking the fish. And definitely make s sure you acclimate him well if you do change your source water.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

I second all the people who mentioned that your pH is fine. The pH at my apartment is pretty high as well (around 8) and my fish are totally fine. 

Once again (self promoting) this thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=66595

The only things I can think of that are killing your fish are:
- There was already something wrong with him at the petstore (My first betta died in 10 days because of this)
- There is something ELSE in your water that is unable to be tested at your LPS, such as high amounts of heavy metals


I know you already answered that you DON'T drink the water, but what do you use it for? Just general stuff like washing dishes/clothes/cleaning?

(Isn't it weird that people have water problems the day after I post this? Now I feel bad, wahaha)


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## ilovebunnies (Oct 11, 2010)

I've posted this a lot so here it is. I've killed multiple bettas with the tap water. The water is very hard so we have to soften it using sodium chloride in the water softener. None of my fish or plants lived very long. The fish would seem fine for a week or two and then all the sudden be gasping for breath. Towards the end they look like they were having spasms. And yes I used dechlorinator so I think the problem was the sodium chloride. I have to buy bottled spring water for my fishes now and so far for two months my fish have been doing well.

I don't know if this is the problem you have but you might want to consider it.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

@ilovebunnies: Sounds interesting...a bunch of others have had this similar situation. I know for sure the NaCl would absolutely wreck plants, and theoretically fish too.

Most water softeners have adjusters on them, maybe you could turn it down a little?

Mmmmmmm delicious research time!


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## ilovebunnies (Oct 11, 2010)

bahamut285 said:


> @ilovebunnies: Sounds interesting...a bunch of others have had this similar situation. I know for sure the NaCl would absolutely wreck plants, and theoretically fish too.
> 
> Most water softeners have adjusters on them, maybe you could turn it down a little?
> 
> Mmmmmmm delicious research time!


Yeah, I asked my mom questions about the water softener and she has no idea about it, lol. I think it has to be running strong for our water cause without the water softener our house water comes out tinted brown. :shock: Our white clothes in the laundry end up looking dirty from all the rust in the water.

Some people were saying on the plantedtank.net that the outside hose water might not be treated with the water softener but my mom has no idea. You think she would know after putting in a $2000 system what it does.:lol: But she doesn't, so I just purchase bottled spring water.

I just wanted to let people know that this could be a potential problem for their fish. I want no more casualties.


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## Arashi Takamine (Mar 3, 2011)

I second the Reverse Osmosis water. If your fish is having trouble and is just laying there I would lower his water level so he could breathe easier. Guys what about an eposm salt bath? Or using de-caffinated green-tea for the tannins? I could be wrong but doesn't that usually help perk a betta up a lot?


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, it's Monday morning and he's still alive. When I came into work he was laying so his head was on the gravel and his tail was kind floating in up in the air. He then had a freak out, swam to the top of the water to get a breath and then swam all topsy turvy back to the bottom. The swimming he was doing was quite strange. Spasm like. And now there appears to be a white ball attached to his gills on the left side. It's just the one. I can't really say that it looks fuzzy, but it's more than speck. So, I'm guessing fungus? Do I just get the fungus medicine they sell at Wal-Mart? 

I don't use the water for anything in this town other than washing my hands after using the restroom. I don't live in the same town that I work in. The water in my town is MUUUUUUCH softer. I'm going to start phasing in my water if my betta will hold on a little longer.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Scratch that, there appears to be more than one speck. Looks like one out of the left gill, one or two on a front fin under his head, one on a top fin and possibly one on his side. The one on the gill is quite large and kind of looks fuzzy. Maybe. The others don't though. Can I treat for both ick and fungus, or would that be unsafe?

I don't have a way to post a picture right now. All I have his the camera in my phone and I don't have a USB cord to hook the phone to the computer. I'll check to see if I can send a picture via Bluetooth.


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

Ok, so no picture. My camera on my phone cannot pick up the spots. I have noticed that there are a couple of specks. And I got to thinking about it, perhaps what I thought was a hole in his fin is actually just a white speck. See, my gravel is quite white, so I figured it was a hole and I'm seeing the gravel color through it. Now I'm wondering if it's just a speck. I'm starting to suspect ick. Only the one spot looks kinds fuzz like. The rest are just specks. Any ideas out there? Treat for both? Treat for one? Do I do a water change? Can I just put the treatment in my 10 gal?


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## CatAndFishFan (May 8, 2011)

Well you could probably put him in a hospital tank and maybe start feeding a little higher quality food and give him some sunlight...a little tlc, ya know?


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

can you take poor sick guy home and try to treat him there instead? You mentioned that water in your town is a lot better + you can keep an eye on him over the weekend (I am assuming you go home from work every night)
You could try salt treatmen and slowly rise the temp to 80-82 and see how that goes first. he seems pretty weak so too many different medication may not be a very good idea.


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

how is your betta doing?


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## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

That betta has since passed away. I wrote about his terrible demise in another post. I have since gotten a new betta and I'm happy to report that he is alive and well. He's a beautiful red color with black tipped fins and a shiney, almost irradescent blue section of scales along the top of his body and at the tips of his fins that sit below his body, under his head. He's very active and a real joy to watch!


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about your previous betta. sometimes no matter what we do, it's just not enough. Hopefully you learned something and will help you with your new betta.


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