# Breeding elephant ears?



## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Has anyone here ever done it? I have a HM salamander elephant ear that I would love to breed but I was concerned about his capability as a father. I never breed in over 6 inches of water (usually 4-5 inches) but I have noticed that after maybe 20 min of swimming he rests on the bottom. Would he have trouble caring for the babies or will his maternal instincts kick in? What do you guys think oh and would anybody want fry ( I am planning on getting another salamander or white hm female or maybe one of MrVampire's white HMPK).


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Elephant ear
Was crazy about those a few months back
All I'm going to tell you is that theyre more of a problem then there worth 
My result 
Eexnone ee no ee offspring(cull down to 20 fry in the first month)
Eexee produce massive ear
I just give up on them
Didn't went beyond f1


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Yeah my ee male did a great job taking care
A bit slow but he got the job done
But my was a hmpk ee
I think it will be hard on your male since he's a long fin 
My guess it fall down to how big his side fin


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

His ears keep growin bigger... I might take your advice sense mine is a HM there tail makes their lives hard enough.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> Elephant ear
> Was crazy about those a few months back
> All I'm going to tell you is that theyre more of a problem then there worth
> My result
> ...


To anyone: (but also speaking to curlyfatbottom)

Technically speaking wouldn't breeding a generation1 fish back to your parent big ear show the results?

I know you didn't go on, but isn't that how it works to bring out traits? (I am learning and am VERY interested as on this particular subject.)

On big ear x big ear: Do you know (roughly) the % of spawn that has the trait in gen 1? And roughly what % reflects the parents vs massive ear? Or is the entire spawn massive ear?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Not going to lie I still like the freaky look but I just won't breed
Will how big is it.
I got one that his fin are as big as aquastar71 1000 fish
But he can't swim just stay at the bottom


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

I didn't took the next step
But roughly speaking your right
F1 to the parent will bring out the trait
My eexee
Since i started with massive fin pair
They produce even bigger fin
Plus a very high deform rate
Uneven fin one side is bigger then the other
Didn't recode the data
But it higher then 50%


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Advise taken. Wish you would have kept a log with pictures! 

I have not seen a big ear that had HUGE pectorals. Going to look up the fish you referred to in a minute.

I guess to control the size of their pectorals would be to cross back to non ee fish? Wonder how doing this would effect the generations in the long run. If the ee would get smaller pectorals? 

Deform rate at 50% from an ee x ee cross is pretty bad odds.

If anyone has links on data or spawn logs, I would love to read them. (sorry to blabber in your thread Crete. If you decide to breed your big ear boy I will be watching your spawn log like a hawk )


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I have two big ear half moons on the way from thailand, but no females.

I'll give it a go anyway. Of all the pics and youtube of half moon big ears, none of them were "laying on the bottom".:shock:


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

His ears are defiantly not the size of some of aquastar71, but like I said they are still growing. I am thinking about crossing him to a HM female with no history of big pectorals that way I can control the ear size more if I did.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Really big ee pectoral fin can almost be the same size as the caudal fin


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah nope I dont wana go that big at all.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

You should be fin if your cross to none ee


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Any other advice on controlling fin size? I like the way they look but just not so super big.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I like big. I would like giant halfmoon big ear.....

Jeff.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Well I am planning on sometime in late fall to start makin big ear babies lol


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

My guess is cross an Eexnone ee f1 back to a ee
And Jeff giant is really hard to maintain the size
Out crossing it will take some time
Giant seem to be recessive gene and ee
Working with two recessive gene at once will take some careful selection
You pick wrong pair and your back to squre one
Long fin will show in your f1
Yeah you can only work with the female on the ee and hm
Cause no stander size male can breed with a giant female
Have the same goal as you but it turn out harder then Ive think
Just sticking with hmpk and giant hmpk


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> My guess is cross an Eexnone ee f1 back to a ee
> And Jeff giant is really hard to maintain the size
> Out crossing it will take some time
> Giant seem to be recessive gene and ee
> ...


Where did giants come from?:shock:


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

From a fighting gene
Carefully selecting the biggest one to work with only
Took them many year to get it that size and produce the same size or bigger then the parents
Pk is over 3" long
Long fin are over 5" long
Or you can spend 50 plus on a lower quailty hm giant male and breed it to an eehm female 
True giant are expensive
Do to the amount of food they eat and require space to house and care for them


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

Creat said:


> Well I am planning on sometime in late fall to start makin big ear babies lol



LOL! The kids will tease them in school.  

(get it school..) <-ok VERY BAD but I couldn't help it. 


I will sooo be watching for your spawn. Do you have a female picked out?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I am probably going to wait to use Mr.Vampires HMPK white platinum females or a yellow salamander or both


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Received my two male HM Big Ears today!

I have to fatten them up!

Jeff.


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

jeffegg2 said:


> Received my two male HM Big Ears today!
> 
> I have to fatten them up!
> 
> Jeff.


Any pics? I would realy love to see them.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Crowntailed said:


> Any pics? I would realy love to see them.


forthcoming.... I had to go to work so too late to upload...


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## Wolfboy51 (Oct 12, 2011)

(Dont know if this has already posted but this came Up in another thread a while ago ) what if you bred an elephant Ear betta with a king betta.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

jeffegg2- Yay sounds awesome you going to breed them at all


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Set up the breeding tank (tub) for the big ear HM. Using a 16 gallon plastic tub with 4 inches water. 100 watt heater, java moss. Both male and female are in their jars in the tank. Plan is to use it as grow out after free swimming....

The female is not big ear, so don't know how long before I get any big ear fry....:|


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Doing a sibling breeding is the best way to bring back recessive genes like large pectorals or giants. Its my plan for getting large ears. 
And breeding big ears to kings would give you probably mostly regular sized fish with regular pectorals very rarely might you get a king betta with large ears. Sense large size is also a recessive trait.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Sibling breeding can wash out traits. I recommend taking an offspring and breeding back to the long eared parent and again with a grand son/daughter to manifest the trait.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I have two big ear males so I can back breed an offspring to the other male.

or make the attempt anyway....


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

You should put pictures in your photo album on here of your new boys jeffegg. 

Good luck with your spawn, and take lots of pictures!


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Twilight Storm said:


> You should put pictures in your photo album on here of your new boys jeffegg.
> 
> Good luck with your spawn, and take lots of pictures!


Soon!


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Female: same one that I spawned with my regular half moon. I like her out of all my females as she is HUGE!. Good gal!


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

just found out that my little brother still have his ee from my ee breeding pair
his was the smallest even ear out of the batch

he can only flare for about 30 second 









his fin are so big that it can wrap around his body


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Male:


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I'll post some pics of the set up later. The male already has a nice bubble nest, and the female looks receptive. I'll give it a go in the morning....


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

creat n jeff just be careful with the ee


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Curlyfatbottom said:


> creat n jeff just be careful with the ee


What care should I be taking different to non-ee?


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

jeffegg2 said:


> What care should I be taking different to non-ee?


i mean future breeding
after looking at some ee
i notice a different
wide long fin
long narrow
long wide


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

i raise all type a like
my breeder 10"x6"x12" divider tank
my fry 10-20 gallon tank
grow out 1/2-gallon each


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Dad:


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The setup:


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The introduction:


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Gorgeous.  May just steal a couple from you after they mature. ^^

Had to do a double-take at the first picture of the male. My first thought was "A pug.... fish?!" But then I realized that his nose was cut off in the picture. Teehee.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The Eggs!!!

Wow! They are fast workers!! I put them together this morning and watched him chase her around for an hour or so, she looked more cooperative than he did! I sleep till 2 because I work midnights. This is what I found when I checked up on them!!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Lol my thread was stolen but at least I dont have to go find one when I want some babies XD


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Creat said:


> Lol my thread was stolen but at least I dont have to go find one when I want some babies XD


Didn't seem like you were using it any longer.... heh. Sorry!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Lol no no its okay really  and I am not using it


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

My big ears update. It appears the majority of the eggs were sterile. I do see some fry, but it is difficult to see in the tub... clearly showing the advantage of an actual aquarium... I gave them their first feeding of some mw and bbs... I have a second tub with my other ee male with a cambodian hm female.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Dont under estimate the number of fry I only made that mistake once...


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes, they are so tiny! My old eyes make them hard to see!

Jeff.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

They are a bit more visible now, I would say at least 50? Hard to tell they hide so well.


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## atteb (Nov 12, 2010)

Keep the update going on how they are doing. I just bought a HMPK elephant ear male. I am going to pair him up with my HMPK female, they are both from Thailand but not related at all.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Update: The fry are doing fine, about 40? I also bred the second big ear with a red marble hm female, that spawn has about 150? They are also growing like weeds! The plan is to cross breed to the other big ear to prevent a lot of inbreeding problems...

This makes 3 spawns that I have all together, This will be a busy summer for me! 

Also I just received my API Master Test kit and it is really an eye opener! All my tanks/tubs have filters so Nitrate is my main test. Just did a 50% in all my brood tanks today.

I'll try to get a vid done of my total setup this weekend.... Most of my current setup is kinda temporary, If I decide to continue with breeding then I have an area where I can build a permenent dedicated fish room. Right now I have a few heated tanks in my finished part of the basement, and my basement half bath now has a space heater keeping it about 84F, and some shelves in there for my male jars and another spawn tub and bbs cultures.

Jeff.


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## atteb (Nov 12, 2010)

Just thought I would post a pic of my new boy, just got him yesterday so he is a bit camera shy. I plan on pairing him up with my White HMPK female, both are from Thailand unrelated. She is not a large ear.


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## Roemgie (May 6, 2012)

Twilight Storm said:


> To anyone: (but also speaking to curlyfatbottom)
> 
> Technically speaking wouldn't breeding a generation1 fish back to your parent big ear show the results?
> 
> ...


The idea of genetics is that if you breed back into the line instead of outside you are looking to get something the exact same. Now it also brings a small gene pool which will in turn put the babies at risk for more genetic diseases. 

Now the idea to figure out if the big ears are a dominate trait or recessive you'll need to breed that betta with another big eared betta. If 25% of your offspring are big eared then that indicates that the gene is recessive. Meaning that the other 75% are carrying the ability to produce big eared bettas but won't because the more dominate trait is taking over. 

One thing to note about recessive traits is that they can carry other traits that we don't desire or that doesn't help the fish. That's usually why a trait is recessive because our gene pool is wanting to rid of it instead of pass it on. But through long long lines of generations you can almost get it as a dominate traits and you can breed out and in the genetic line to 'perfect' your elephant ears but that can take a long time and a lot of money and of course a lot of ups and downs. 

I know this is an older post but I just wanted to let you know what i know from my genetic class in college


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