# culling



## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

culling is a controversial subject that must be addressed. the amount of amateur breeders is on the rise. have any of you given it a serious thought? many of you will be offended with what i have to say so read at your own discretion. im here to toss in my two cents; not to debate the ethical issues.

for those that dont know, culling is the act of selective killing. why would anyone commit such a heinous act? everyone will have their own reasons.

unfit and runts
nature's survival of the fittest will usually take these out early on. against great odds, some will miraculously make it to adolescents. i have had a few 1.5 month old that look smaller than their siblings when they were a week old. they were very little and show almost no developments.

deformities
with every batch, there is bound to be some deformities. bent spines is probably the most common and visible issue. some may argue that it could potentially have a good quality of life.

regulating stock size
if the batch is large, you may not want to spend the time and resource to care for the ones that are _just average_. who really wants a large number of fish that looks the same? other times, some may want to kill off their mature fish that are past their prime to make room for the youngs.

if you do decide to cull, please do it in a humane manner approved by AVMA Guidelines for Fish Euthanasia. i will not share which methods i have used.
i have taken a couple of pictures to illustrate what some of my culls look like.

the spine is severely crooked









the top half of the caudal fin does not span open










my final two cents on culling: *if you or someone else will not find enjoyment in keeping a particular fish, why do it?*


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, culling IS a very contraversial subject so I just want to ask everyone to please be respectful of each other's opinion, even if you don't agree with it.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Hmm, for ME, I'd only cull if the fry has no chance at having a comfortable life. I just don't have the heart to do it otherwise.


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## BettaxFishxCrazy (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree with Kim. With any animal in general, if I knew that they would be in pain the rest of their lives or uncomfortable enough to where they'd suffer through life than I would put them down humanly. It would break my heart doing so, but if it would be best for the animal, I would do it.


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## Rohland (Aug 20, 2009)

I can agree with you Andakin 100% even though we had our disagreement earlier on. The only thing I hate is when people want to breed or incist to breed when they are uncapable of keeping the babies. (Don't have necessary supplies, no enough research ect.) And they choose to spawn their bettas whose fry will probably die in the end.


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

I've never thought about it before because I always figured that if no one wanted my babies, I would find some way to make room for them. But I understand where you're coming from. If I do decide to breed twice, that's alot of babies, and I think now I may have to consider looking into it. Mainly because Merlin is from Thailand, and the new female might as well be. I would hope they're fry don't have deformities, yet I know there will be a few. Same with Pearl and Merlins fry. This def gives me something to think about. Good post Andakin.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, a lot of babies die unnecessarily because the person breeding is unprepared or is not breeding in the proper sized tank. That's why research is SO important.


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

This was a very well though out post Andakin. I'm not sure if I myself would be able to cull (not that I will be getting into breeding), but I can respect those who choose to.


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## ChristinaRoss (Sep 4, 2009)

this is exactly why i choose not to breed..........


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm really against culling anything that isn't in pain. That is why I'm going to call a local family run pet store and see if they want to sell the babies, any fry that weren't suitable for breeding. This pet store takes awesome care of their animals. 

I will see to it that every animal under my care gets the life/care that they deserve. ESPECIALLY if it is one that I bred. 

I still have respect for those who do cull, but in a humane way only. Those who are getting knifes and chopping off their betta's heads (PM me and I'll send you the link, from another forum) do NOT deserve to breed bettas.


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## k stiles (Aug 29, 2009)

I totally agree with doggyhog


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I wouldn't want my fry suffering and having no chance at a comfortable life. I agree with doggyhog. If you're going to cull, please do it humanely.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

the amount of work that goes into water changes and feeding is never ending. after jarring 25, i realize how quickly i am running out of room. i am still left with another 25 really aggressive fish in the small 10 gallon grow out tank.











i need to do some serious culling, and soon. where do i go after eliminating the ones with visible deformities? as monstrous as it sounds, im looking for reasons to kill. my next round of culls will probably be the little ones.

many will accuse me of being an incompetent and that i should not breed if i cant care for all of them. thats easier said than done. dont judge if you havent had to face this issue. i dont mean to sound snobby but i know i can raise each and every single one. i choose not to because thats not my goal.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Eggs CAN be removed from the nest right after spawning if it's done carefully. Here is some info from Bettatalk about how to remove eggs after spawning. The eggs are removed right away, before they have a chance to develop into babies. 
So here is how to remove the eggs, step by step:​







first of all, once the spawning is done, use a flashlight to see where the eggs have been stored inside the nest. They may be all over, or clumped in one or two spots. They are easy to see since they look a bit yellowish. Look at them from UNDER.​







now, remove the female.​







while you are in there, this is the best time to also remove extra eggs - this way you only disturbed the male once.​







take a clean plastic spoon​







carefully dip the spoon near the nest by entering the water surface vertically (so to displace almost no water). Slowly maneuver the spoon under the nest. Level the spoon so it is horizontal and slide it slowly under the spot with most eggs. Scoop up bubbles and the eggs, keeping the spoon mainly horizontal but at a slight bit of an angle when exiting at the surface so to not displace much water at all (it will disrupt the nest less that way) but so the eggs you scooped up will still not fall back into the water.​







if the nest is under a stirofoam cup, you will have to lift the cup up gently so to access the eggs and remove them. This will result in the nest sliding partly out, but that is OK. Remove the eggs, then lower the cup back into the water while trying to move it over the majority of the nest and getting as much of it back under the cup - the male will fix the rest.​


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Andakin, I respect your choice to cull. Don't cull those little ones yet, late bloomers are usually the most awesome and healthiest fish. At least save a few.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

OH, and are you housing females together? Or Jarring them?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

You know, on another forum I'm a member of they have an adoption center. There are usually many people willing to take culls. You could try posting them up for adoption here, or even join that forum because I think it has more members than the betta section here. The website is ultimatebettas.com


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## iheartmyfishies (Sep 14, 2009)

I believe that if breeders don't cull because of softness of heart, the overall quality and beauty of the species will slowly but surely decrease. In fifty years, there might be entire strains of bettas born with insufficient finnage. But yes, humane euthanasia is a must in my book.


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## Rohland (Aug 20, 2009)

I agree with you andakin, I know you can care for them. If you thought my earlier comment was about you it wasnt. It was ment to be viewed as people who cannot provide basic needs and still want to spawn. I understand what your trying to accomplish and agree with it. Is that another spawning happening in your tank?


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

iheartmyfishies said:


> I believe that if breeders don't cull because of softness of heart, the overall quality and beauty of the species will slowly but surely decrease. In fifty years, there might be entire strains of bettas born with insufficient finnage. But yes, humane euthanasia is a must in my book.


Yes, I agree somewhat with this point. The major factor is that people should not continue to breed subpar fry, then the deficiencies would end with that one fry. Just as with every animal, responsible breeding is a must to keep the species or breed as good as it can be.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

The egg removing idea is better because it takes a few minuets for the eggs to become fertilized.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Also, limiting the amount of times the pair wraps can reduce the amount of eggs you have.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

dramaqueen said:


> Also, limiting the amount of times the pair wraps can reduce the amount of eggs you have.


 Good thing I didn't do that with my CT pair because she wasn't releasing eggs at all. Just a note, I'm not gonna sell these ones, I'm gonna try inbreeding and then see what happens.


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## andakin (Aug 10, 2009)

i would never prematurely end a spawn or kill off eggs. maximizing the number of offspring will allow for better selection of keepers.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

andakin said:


> i would never prematurely end a spawn or kill off eggs. maximizing the number of offspring will allow for better selection of keepers.


 Hmm good point.


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## Vikki81207 (May 27, 2009)

Yes that is a good point


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes, good point. But wouldn't that mean more that you have to cull? I just posted that info about limiting the number of wraps and removing eggs because I found the info on bettatalk and I want people to know that there are other alternatives. Culling is up to the individual breeder.


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## k stiles (Aug 29, 2009)

DQ is right, and I really don't want to have to cull.


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## cindylou (May 11, 2009)

*I agree and disagree to some extent. If you do not know enough about any animal don't breed them but again you can't expect to know what nature is going to hand you! I do know one thing though I bought a blood fin tetra from a pet store that was shaped like an L, yes a letter L and he lived for about 4 years. If that animal is not in pain and is eating and surviving with no problem so be it. I myself though will not kill anything just because of size or shape ect. We would not do humans that way and all my fish are just like my children. I commend you for letting people know of the things that can go wrong though and leave breeding to the more experienced person. ;-)*


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## Rohland (Aug 20, 2009)

Kim said:


> Yes, I agree somewhat with this point. The major factor is that people should not continue to breed subpar fry, then the deficiencies would end with that one fry. Just as with every animal, responsible breeding is a must to keep the species or breed as good as it can be.


I agree and in the end it comes down to responsible breeding. Having the knowledge, equipment, supplies, ect to get the job done. Saying that I also believe that bettas should bred to maintain the correct size, shape ect. And to get rid of the deformities and problems. And like iheartmyfishies mentioned earlier if breeders don't do this the quality will surely decrease.


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