# Bait fish?



## Calvin88

I'm from Moorhead Minnesota and found this fish by a runoff of the red river. Can anyone id this fish? I was also wondering if I can keep them with bettas?


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## Calvin88

Here's the fish pic


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## Watermelons

It is also illegal in most places to keep local wildlife as pets.

Please leave the fish where you find them.
definitely not a good idea to mix local fish with your pets for numerous reasons especially legal and disease related.


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## AquaPlayz

Looks like a top minnow, not sure what species though, if you have a freshwater fishing license you should be fine, unless it's public property or a park.
Though you'll need a quarantine tank and some equipment to properly collect them.


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## Calvin88

I have a license and might just have a plain 10 gal. With 7-8 or about how many


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## AquaPlayz

I wouldn't put them in a tank below 20g, they are linda like danios, very active and fast.
Also you'll need to replicate there natural environment and quarantine them for a month before putting in main tank.


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## Calvin88

All I have is the 10 gallon


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I wouldn't keep them then, will become stunted.
If you are interested in making a native tank theres tons of options for a 10g.


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## Strawberry12

if they're wild in minnesota they're not tropical temp fish, either.


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## Calvin88

I said it won't house a Betta now. What natives can live in a 10 gallon


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## AquaPlayz

Here's some common ones you can find
Swamp darters
Bluefin killifish
Banded killifish
Ghost shrimp
Pygmy sunfish
And tadpole madtoms(aggressive)
Oh and apple snails

All can be found in shipments of ghost shrimp from your lfs as hitchhikers, they are 99 out of 100 times free.
Oh and you can collect some rocks/wood and plants at local creeks and rivers


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## Calvin88

How would you stock or can you give me options with the list you gave


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## AquaPlayz

4 swamp darter
2 bluefin killis
2 pugmy Sunfish
1 mystery snail(apples nay get too big but you can get a natural color mystery)
And 10 ghost shrimp.
Or you can do 4 killis and no sunfish

Also I would try to replicate natural sand, like get some dirt and stir it in have some rocks in it, ect


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## Calvin88

So I can have 4 swamp darters, 2 Everglades Pygmy sunfish and 10 ghost shrimp in a 10 gallon?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, you'll just want to have live plants, and good filter(a aquaclear or biowheel rated for 20g will be great)
I would call your local fish store and ask if they ever get hitchhikers in with there ghost shrimp shipments.


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## Calvin88

You live near minnesota


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## AquaPlayz

No, in Florida, but I know alot of the native fish and plants, why?


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## Calvin88

Was wondering if you could get some native plants and send them to me


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## AquaPlayz

Oh ok, I am on vacation right now and moving in a month so can't really, but you wouldn't believe how many common aquarium plants are native.
Hornwort
Valliserinia Americana
Elodea
A few crypts
Rotala
Ludwigia
Water lettuce, duckweed, salvania
And a few other I forgot.
You can go to a local lake or whatever and get some plants, I would take pics of them and post because some are invasive and are illegal.


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## Calvin88

Ok, do you know any native in minnesota


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## AquaPlayz

Here's a link I found.
Aquatic Plants: Submerged Plants: Minnesota DNR

Coontail(hornwort) will probably be the most common, jist check around some creeks and lakes.


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## Calvin88

Could I do a tank of all coontail


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, its a great plant, can be floated or planted, and is great for copepods and small fish.
Val americana is there(wild celery) it is also very cool, and these aren't all of them, just kinda what's really common or really rare.


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## Calvin88

Along with 10 ghost shrimp, 4 swamp or Johnny darters. And least killi (h. Formosa) or Pygmy sunfish. What's better in your experience


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## AquaPlayz

Mpsquitofish(look like small dull guppies) but they are annoying(semi aggressive and bad fin nippers)
Sheepshead minnow may not be in Minnesota but looks short and stubby, kinda like a balloon belly molly.
Then alot of misc killis and livebearers that will be fine.

Oh and least killis are a livebearer if you didn't know.


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## Calvin88

Okay, I'll try to find some wood tonight, do natives like wood?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, it's best if you van kinda replicate the natural environment, so a sand/dirt substrate, some caves made form rocks and wood, and alot of love plants with a open front for swimming.


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## Calvin88

Okay, thanks


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## AquaPlayz

Your welcome, hope you can get the tank setup soon


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## Calvin88

How would you plan a native 10 gallon with equipment, plants and livestock?


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## AquaPlayz

What do you mean?


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## BlueInkFish

I believe your planning right now, through this thread ;-)

But a more straight forward answer, simply put the stuff you want in the aquarium if they or it, can all coexist peacefully.


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## Calvin88

I just got sand, rocks and wood. Still deciding on species and how many


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## AquaPlayz

cool 
pics of wood?


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## Calvin88

Will 1 Florida flagfish, 5 2 male and 3 female Everglades Pygmy sunfish along with 3 swamp darters and 10 ghost shrimp work


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## Calvin88

I'm on vacation but will post pics of the two pieces as I return


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## AquaPlayz

Ok cool, I would get 2 males and 2 female sunfish but other then that sounds awesome


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## Calvin88

All this will work in a 10 gallon?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, though will be 100% stocked
re you willing 2 sunfish, 2 flagfish, 3 swamp darters, and 8 ghosts shrimp?


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## Calvin88

I want 1 flagfish for algea, any other natives that could work with everglade pygmies and swamp darters


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## AquaPlayz

Oh ok
1 flagfish
3 sunfish
3 swamp darters
2malw least killifish and 4 female least killifish
And 8ghosts


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## Calvin88

That would be biotope right


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, along with leaf litter and some native plants it will be almost just like a Florida swamp or river.


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## Calvin88

What plants should go in


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## Calvin88

And what leafs? Here's wood a or b?


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## Calvin88

Here's wood B


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## Calvin88

Better pic of A


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## AquaPlayz

I would get hornwort, anacharis, valisserinia Americans, and salvania.
I would do a, do you know what type of tree it is? Some types can't be in aquarium.


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## Calvin88

It's a root driftwood, so idk


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, what trees where around it?


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## Calvin88

Oak, willow


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## Calvin88

Here's sand, I have 2 bags of this and larger pebbles


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## Calvin88

Here's the rocks, I have only 5 all if this is from Lake Superior, that's were I vacationed


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## Calvin88

Is beach glass safe for aquraiums


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## Calvin88

What kind of filter should I use


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I would boil it and test the parameters once the water is clear from boiling and see what they are.
Don't use anything from the beach, put some white vinegar on the rocks, if they fiss they aren't safe if not they are fine.
I would get a aquaclear 20 filter.


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## Calvin88

Ok, any other info you would like to add


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## AquaPlayz

I would keep a small fan near the tank to keep temp down and I forgot the leaves, dries oak leaves will be more natural but if the leaves are infected with fertilizer or something it will kill your fish, but almond leaves will be safe but not as natural.
Also your ph will be lower fork leaves and wood but is fine if its about 6.5 or so


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## Calvin88

So for the plants can I add duckweed? It will help with cover and filter out some water right?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, but duckweed usually takes over your tank because it grows so fast, but all floating plants help with water parameters.
Salvania is also In Florida swamps and is a floating plant.


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## Calvin88

Ok, can you special order plants at lfs


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, oh and you can grow some some semi aquatic plants in your filter if you want.


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## Calvin88

What semi aquatic plants


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## Calvin88

What about red root floater


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## AquaPlayz

Red root floater isn't a native.
Can use cattails I think theres a type of dwarf papyrus that's native


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## Calvin88

Do you keep natives


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## Calvin88

Here's first hard scape consept


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, i am in a rental as of now so can only have 2 small tanks so don't have a dedicated tank yet but i have a few natives and have kept native plants before.
Looks cool, should look great once the bottom is covered in substrate.
Oh and don't plant it like a normal tank, scatter plants here and there(length wise) and kinda keep species in a general area.


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## Calvin88

Ok, thanks so I'll try to get a natural setup


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## Calvin88

So about how many clumps of plants should I get


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## AquaPlayz

Ok cool.
Oh and di you know what light you're getting?


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## AquaPlayz

I would get 1 bunche of hornwort, 2-3 things of val Americana, and a cup or so of salvania.
I would get a finnex stingray led light


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## Calvin88

It's in the hood, it's the aqueon 18" plant light


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, that'll be fine


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## Calvin88

What are you keeping


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## AquaPlayz

Well 2 days ago my tank cracked and I lost some stock but this is what I had.
2 swamp darters
1 banded killifish
Some wild ghosts shrimp
3 mosquitofish
And a wild male least killifish
I also have 4 kuhli loaches and a upside down catfish in there
I kost the killifish, the shrimp, and a darter.
But I am moving soon so not getting any more until after.
I am wanting to make this a full native and get these
6 swamp darters
4 bluefin killifish
And misc native snails and shrimp.

Oh I forgot theres 2 native snails that are common, theres a species that is like a Malaysian trumpet snail but gets alittle bigger, and apple snails, after I move and my snails start breeding I should be and to ship you some snails but will be 6 months or so because I lost alot when I changed my substrate.


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## Calvin88

Oh, thank you


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## AquaPlayz

Your welcome, give me a sec I'll get a pic of one.


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## Calvin88

I might not even start the tank till october, what should I feed the natives?


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## AquaPlayz

Feed bloodworms for a few weeks after you get the fish and ween them off to some high quality pellets(new life spectrum community pellets are good)


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## AquaPlayz

The snails are exactly like Malaysian trumpet snails just get larger.
Swamp darters will eat smaller snails but if you he the snails first and let them breed a decent amount first then you'll be fine.


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## Calvin88

Sorry, hear about your cracked tank &#55357;&#56853;


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## Calvin88

What are your thoughts about these in a ten gallon, like s species only


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, I got a new Tank though so it all good.
Stickle backs are harder to ween off frozen/live foods and are aggressive, I believe 2 females and 1 male in a 10g but they eat shrimp so that's all you could have
Also never seen them in shipmenst of ghost shrimp so would have to buy or carch


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## nevaeh

lol this convo has been funny:lol::bluelaugh::whip::doh!::fish:mg::nicefish: but I agree not to keep it


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## Calvin88

Just wondering cause I caught some


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I wouldn't, they are very aggressive, they have been know to bite there owners fingers


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## Calvin88

Wow, never thought about that. I'll post an update soon


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, though would be cool to have 1 male in a 10g because the males flare like male bettas at everything.


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## Calvin88

Option a


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## Calvin88

Option b


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## AquaPlayz

I like option 1, I know theres some native mosses but I don't know the name or if its in Minnesota


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## Calvin88

Ok, but found out the rocks fizzled just slightly! Dang it


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, wouldn't use then, can get slate form hardware stores and some local fish stores sell different rocks.


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## Calvin88

Can i not have rocks?


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## AquaPlayz

Not if they fizz, fizz means they will leach things and/or alter your water parameters.


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## Calvin88

Are rocks nessisary


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## AquaPlayz

No, swamps don't have alot of rocks anyway, lakes and rivers do though.


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## Calvin88

Ok, this stocking is a swamp right?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, the flagfish is in brackish swamps and lakes usually, they do fien in freshwater but more common in brackish.
They actually have flagfish in the swamp biotopes at the Florida aquarium, as well as the trumpet snails I have.


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## Calvin88

Ok, so I'll do 1 flagfish (algae), 5 Pygmy sunfish (Everglades) 25 or so ghost shrimp (don't add really anything to biotope and x amount of the trumpet snails


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, could also take put a sunfish if you want for a few swamp darters.


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## Calvin88

So four sunfish and 3 swamp darters


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah that'd work, and 20 or so ghost shrimp, oh and if your lfs ever has hitchhikers with there ghosts the ghosts are wild so should have a better coloration then normal ones.


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## Calvin88

Can I add a deer jaw?


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## AquaPlayz

No, the bacteria on it could harm the fish and it will raise the ph because of the calcium in it which I the opposite of what you want because swamps are low ph


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## Calvin88

Ok, could I get nines pine sticklebacks as they are smaller?


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## AquaPlayz

All sticklebacks are very aggressive, but hey you could always setup another 10g for them


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## Calvin88

I can only have one tank


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## AquaPlayz

Ohh ok, what about a divided 20g?


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## Calvin88

I can only have the 10 gallon, so I have to choose between Florida biotope and nines spines


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I'm in the Same boat  
I would go with biotope because you have a larger variety of fish and such


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## Calvin88

Yeah, but I love sticklebacks can I put a 2.5 gallon with 1 stickleback or maybe a dwarf orange crayfsih


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## AquaPlayz

Humm, give me a sec ill check, they cant be together the Cray will kill it severely injure the stickleback, or the stickle will kill the Cray when he molts.
But a stickleback may work.


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## Calvin88

Just 1 dwarf crayfish in a 2.5 gallon will work right


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, and I found nine spine stickles get 3" and three spine get 4" so need a 10g at least.
Oh and for a cpo you should have sand substrate, lost of live plants, and good live and frozen food.
I am actually getting a cpo for my 2.5g when I move, but I'm modifying to make it almost double the footprint with a second half floor made out of plexiglass.


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## Calvin88

Ok, could I do that and add like a least killi or two


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, though Cray may eat them too, but may work.


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## Calvin88

Ok, so then I can't use the sand, it's from the same rocks


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, you can get play sand for the whole tank plus another 10g or whatever for $5 or so at Lowes.


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## Calvin88

Oh, really! Wow


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## Calvin88

So, I will setup the 10 gallon with the Florida biotope, then the cpo later


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## Calvin88

Do cpo need heaters or for that fact will my 10 gallon, as I live in minnesota


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, some ppl aces it is $2 for a bag, its 50 pounds total.
Cool, oh and be careful with sand make sure the surface the tank is on is level and the silicone is good because it can get heavy.
You may want you yes, cpos want a temp of 78-80F and the biotipe should be 70-75F, so a normal betta heater for the cpo and a adjustable heater for the 10g.


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## Calvin88

My dad doesn't want me to have a heater


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## AquaPlayz

Humm, why not?
If it's money wise they are barely on because they only turn on if the water temp is below what it's set at.


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## Calvin88

Oh, okay.... Thanks


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## Calvin88

How would you send me the native trumpet snail


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## AquaPlayz

I am getting kordon breather bags for she I move and will have 19 or so leftovers so will send 10-15 snails with some kinds if plant fir the To hold onto and a heat pack if needed.
When its setup and everything you can just pm me your mailing info and I'll ship it at no cost, except a small shipping charge of $15  jk no charge, I'm happy to help out a fellow kid aquarists


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## Calvin88

Omg thanks, can you send me plants with the snails?


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## Calvin88

:') thanks again


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, I may not have many native plants, may have some hornwort, definitely will be at least some salvania or Java moss though.


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## AquaPlayz

You're welcome, I've had alot of people help me throughout my time in the hobby so I'm always willing to pass it on


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## Calvin88

So, when do you move?


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## AquaPlayz

Anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month, I need to order my kordon bags soon :S
I used a cooler with a battery powered airstone last time I moved and it was the most stressful thing ever so not going that route again 
Have I told you about my ghost shrimp selective breeding rack I'm making after I move?


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## Calvin88

No, you havent


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## Calvin88

Are there any heater less fish that I could have for minnesota


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I collected aton of wild ghosts and noticed how good there red coloration is and started looking and found someone looked at completely clear ghost shrimp under a microscope and they have the same color pigment as rcs just smaller and not as closely packed. So I am going to selectively breed them and try to get a nice red color lime sakura cherry shrimp.
With this it will help with some things, they wont breed as fast or as much, they will be bigger so can be kept with a larger variety of fish, will be cheaper, hardier, and hopefully look cool.
May take a few years to see any improvements in color but I'm willing to do it.


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## AquaPlayz

What's your air conditioner usually set at? The native will be fine if its 76-80F, also putting a space heater in your room during the winter will help.
In the 2.5g you could do least killifish or a tadpole grow out tank kinda thing.


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## Calvin88

I will take any fish that you don't want and some shrimp that you don't want from your breeding


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## AquaPlayz

Lol ok, I lost my last wild ghost when my tank cracked, they where all big and old whne I got them so need to collect more.
I have a male least killifish if you want him.


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## Calvin88

Yes


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## Calvin88

I would gladly,


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## AquaPlayz

Ok cool, he is very docule,Ives with a dwarf shrimp and baby mosquitofish right now.
Could use for 2.5g that's what he's in now


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## Calvin88

Will you ship it with the plants and snails


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## Calvin88

MOSQUITO FISH!!!! I LOVE MOSQUITO FISH!!!! Especially when the have the black splotches


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## Calvin88

Do yours have black splotches


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## Calvin88

Pic of the dude?


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, the mosquitofish may not be good with the sunfish, they are kinda like bettas, some are friendly others will viciously kill stuff for no reason.
If they are clam/relaxed and comfortable they will have those black dots and if stressed or uncomfortable they will be very pale.
Do you have a pond?


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## Calvin88

There's a pond liner in our backyard


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## AquaPlayz

Here's my female, all of them are pretty old but still active.
Oh and mosquitofish are special in the way they breed, they are just like guppies expect the females can hold the fry for... Well forever basically FI she thinks theres predators around, basically if theres more fish with her she wont give birth.


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## AquaPlayz

Could make a small pond for $20(for a pump) and add some of the leftover sand and hornwort for the mosquitofish.


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## Calvin88

Do you have any of those I could put in the 2.5


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## AquaPlayz

Mosquitofish need a 5g at least, oh and I have eastern mosquitofish the ones that have alot of black on them are western mosquitofish.


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## Calvin88

Oh, ok thank you for that info! I saw a ghost shrimp in a brook by me! Help


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, can you catch and get a pic?
How big is it? Are his front claws very long?


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## Calvin88

It got away, but It didn't have big arms


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## Calvin88

Where do you buy breather bags


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, did it look like a small prawn? Prawns he alot bigger and will eat fish.
There's 2 places I know of, kensfish.com is the cheapest, they are called kordon breather bags.
Get a small fishing /dip net and find a area with plants or wood, swoosh it thru the plants and out of water really fast, or lift wood and scoop where it was and out fast and you should get some shrimp in your net.
I also find alot under bridges especially near the pillars.


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## Calvin88

What size should I get? I am going to Portland,or next summer so I want to know how many


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## AquaPlayz

Are you driving or flying?
Can take it if flying, just get the smallest size(7x12 I think) and 15 count is $15


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## Calvin88

Then I will trace to ship them back, I'm flying


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I still wouldn't because it could be illegal especially bringing over state lines and turn if they get too bug for your tank or something you can't release or sell.


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## Calvin88

Oh, true


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, it's best to only catch from your state for that reason.
None of the snails I have are wild all 2nd or 3nd generation in captivity.
Same with the mosquitofish.


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## Calvin88

So that's why you can give them away


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, they are also in Minnesota I think, or at least aren't illegal.
Have you seen any snails in your creek or whatever that's near you?


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## Calvin88

Pond and bladder


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## Calvin88

Going to brainered, going to see if I can catch anything


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, wouldn't put them in the tank.
Ok cool


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## Calvin88

Can I have log perch and that's it


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## Calvin88

Like just a log perch


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## AquaPlayz

Could have 1 log perch instead of the swamp darters, log perches are like bigger darters.
Do you know what species of log perch?


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## Calvin88

No, it's a Minnesota species


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, just looked up and the most common species in Minnesota gets 4.1"-5" so I would say no.


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## Calvin88

Well..... I already brought two home


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, how big are they? Should be fine for a 6-12 months if 2" or under


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## Calvin88

And a Johnny darter


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## Calvin88

There 2 1-2 ins


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, yeah should be fine for awhile.
Can you get pics?


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## AquaPlayz

Johnny Carter is the same size as the swamp Carter so will be fine forever


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## Calvin88

I'm acclimating, so soon, and I got lost of aquatic plants, i know for sure Val. Americana umm some native moss, looks like Java moss


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, if its a Roanoke(may be spelled wrong) log perch and gets 3.5" and will be fine.
Cool, cam also ID those with pics.


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## Calvin88

That's what it looks like


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I believe the main difference is the rays/spines on the pectoral fin


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I just looked it up and Roanoke log perch is endangered, so I don't think you wpud M have found them, they usually block off the areas they are in.
I can ask on the nanfa forum if anyone knows what they are with a pic.


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## Calvin88

Ok


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## Nomahe

Just read half of the first page but Doesn't matter if they are compatible or not. It's most likely illegal and if if it isn't you are possibly presenting diseases to your aquarium that this fish is immune to but not the fish you have growing up in a pristine condition before the LFS.


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## Calvin88

Edolea or rotala


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## AquaPlayz

Elodea has 4 leaves I think in one spiral thing so I think q a type of ludwigia


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## Calvin88

Don't have any fish At all


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## dreamingpulse

Hi, I do have dragon and other aquarium fishes here at my shop though it's my first time to encounter bait fish. Anyway, I found out that this kind is use to catch the attention of bigger fishes. But its kinda alarming because I also read online that this is not considered a health food. Please read it to know the reasons. I just want to share it with you guys.


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## Calvin88

The "log perch" could be fantail darters!! Here's a pic


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## Calvin88

This tanks sucks


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## AquaPlayz

Ok I posted the pic asking about it.
Its looks natural to me, just make sure the plants stay wet


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## Calvin88

Can I fill with tap water then get declorinator later and add it?


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## AquaPlayz

You can add all water and add how much conditioner you need for the whole tank once filled yeah


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## Calvin88

But I don't have conditioner yet


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## AquaPlayz

Ohh ok, I would put a gallon of water in and cover with plastic wrap, it will keep it humid but the chlorine wont be absorbing into anything as much.
Are you on well or city water?


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## Calvin88

City


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, yeah would do what I said with plastic wrap until you get conditioner then fill add conditioner and add fish.


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## Calvin88

I don't have filter. And there's some protein film on top of water


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, do you know when you can get conditioner and a filter?


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## Calvin88

Conditioner today, filter 1-2 weeks


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## Calvin88

Wood is floating


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, just mist plants or what I said before until you get conditioner.
Do a 25% every other day water change until you get a filter to keep ammonia down.


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## AquaPlayz

The wood will float for awhile, boiling it will help with floating and tannins.


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## Calvin88

Ok, I feel like I need more plants


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## AquaPlayz

They should grow after awhile and you can always collect more I you want.


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## Calvin88

True, can you still send the plants and the snails


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, will be a month or two because I am moving in 20 days and I want the snails to breed alittle.
Oh and do you have any oak trees near you?
If you do you can get some dry leaves off the ground(if there's not fertilizer sprayed on the ground or something) and soak them for a few minutes and then rinse, and you can add to tank for leaf litter


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## Calvin88

What plants could you possible send


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## AquaPlayz

Whatever it is will be native, going collecting asap when I move so I can see what's around so will get some stuff for you when I go.
Anything you would want in particular?


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## Calvin88

floating plant, foreground plant, what ever you can get me. What fish could you collect if possible


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I don't want to ship fish especially if they where just caught, mainly because I don't know the native fish in north Carolina so don't want to collect any protected fish or anything, but can get snails, plants and inverts.


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## Calvin88

What inverts


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## AquaPlayz

Shrimp, crayfish, sometimes I see mussels but I learned they cant be collected.


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## Calvin88

Could you get me a crayfish? And have just that with maybe some shrimp?


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## AquaPlayz

Sure, though will have to put the fish back to where you caught them because yeh Cray will eat them, and plants, though they are awesome pets.
Also you can get crayfish as feeders at your lfs that will be the same ones I can catch for you and will be safer because they can puncture the bags and die in shipping.


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## Calvin88

What about shrimp


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## AquaPlayz

Shrimp shrip great and i can catch you tons of them if I can find them.
Shrimp are hard to fins but when you do theres tons of them.


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## AquaPlayz

Oh and they will look my avatar, normal ghost shrimp but alittle smaller and have a red coloration


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## Calvin88

Can I have them and crayfish? Also what plants are crayfish safe


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## AquaPlayz

Yes, but crays can be like bettas and are like time bombs.
None, crays natural eat plants in the wild so will eat them in your tank, but fast growing plants like hornwort and floating plants are best


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## Calvin88

So.... How would I set it up


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## AquaPlayz

Same as you would normal but plants wont last and lots of hiding places like rock caves and wood, they also burrow so make sure they can't be crushed.


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## Calvin88

Ok, I'll prob do shrimp and floating plants along with cray


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I would return the log perches asap, can keep darter if you want and keep in the 2.5g after you get the cray.
Also the log perches are common log perches and get 5.7" so would be too big.


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## Calvin88

Okay, I might do a cray idk yet, could you get any floating and submerged plants you can?


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, will definitely have salvania and duckweed, probably dwarf water lettuce, hornoqrt, and some misc other plants.


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## Calvin88

Ok, so 2.5 is good for johnny


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## AquaPlayz

Sorta, its probably 1-1.5 years old now and if in 10g until its fully up and you get a Crayfish it will be almost dead from old age so it will be fine,just get a sponge filter(aqua top 10) or a azoo palm filter and some plants yeah, darters are like gobies they aren't very active and stay mostly on the bottom so should be fine especially when very old they aren't as active.


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## Calvin88

So, should I get a young self cloning cray


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## AquaPlayz

Sure, they aren't native but a native setup will be great for them, the same thing as there natural environment.
Also they are a pretty docile Cray.


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## Calvin88

Could I do just shrimp, than what would be a center piece native fish


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, In the 10g or 2.5g? 
Could do some killifish they are good center piece and can be really colorful


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## Calvin88

10 gallon


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, the shrimp aren't very interesting by themselves, could do 30 shrimp, 4 darters of mixed ones(swamp/Johnny) then like some killifish or something.


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## Calvin88

Golden top minnows? Or blue fin killis


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## AquaPlayz

Could do either, top minnows will be harder to find though and I personally like bluefins more


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## Calvin88

I don't know now, could you get banana plant (underwater) and some sand or substrate where you collected??


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## AquaPlayz

Banana plants aren't native I don't think, or at least I've never seen them.
Cant ship substrate, and sand is kinda dodgy to collect.


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## Calvin88

Oh, duh!


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## AquaPlayz

Lol, another idea is wild colored Mexican dwarf orange crays, they look like normal crays but stay small and don't eat plant and are pretty peaceful


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## Calvin88

How many will work in a 10, with wild ghost shrimp


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## AquaPlayz

I think 3 or 4 cpos and 30 or so wild ghosts.


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## Calvin88

Fish wise what would work


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## AquaPlayz

Nothing really with crays, maybe some top dwelling fish but that's it, nothing bottom or mid they will get eaten or injured


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## Calvin88

Do you have any info about pea puffers


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## AquaPlayz

Not alot but I did look into them once.
You could have 4 in a 10g, they need frozen or live foods lots of line of site breaks and they also should have snails like bladder snails to help with there teeth.


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## Calvin88

Could you get me enough plants for my tank?


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## AquaPlayz

Maybe, not sure how many will be around when I get to collect.


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## Calvin88

True, I want pea puffers but idk


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## AquaPlayz

What about doing 1 cpo in tge2.5g and pea puffers in the 10g?


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## Calvin88

Yep, what about Ottis with peas


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## AquaPlayz

That should work, Though ottos need a very well established tank(10+ months) so they have alot of biofilm and algae


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## Calvin88

Will 1-3 ottos, 15-20 shrimp and 3 peas work in 10 gal?


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## AquaPlayz

Should yes.
Also what filter are you getting?


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## Calvin88

Aqueon quite flow 20 or 30


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## AquaPlayz

Oh yeah, cool.
If you get puffers or ottos you will need a heater though they are tropical.


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## Calvin88

Ok


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## Calvin88

I just got 8 oz. of aqueon water conditioner


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, , how concentrated is it? Like how many drops or whatever per gallon?


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## Calvin88

5ml per 10 gallon


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, have you used it yet?


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## Calvin88

No


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, if you return it could you get prime? It is very concentrated so would cost less and detoxifies ammonia for 36 hours.


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## Calvin88

It wasn't there


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## AquaPlayz

Oh ok, aqueon is a good declorinator but isn't very concentrated, also amquel+ is good as it is about like prime but isn't as concentrated like aqueon.


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## Calvin88

So, what names for 1 male and 2 female pea puffers


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## AquaPlayz

Frozen, sweet, and organic  get it peas, I need to stop with bad puns :S


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## Calvin88

Not bad, &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;


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## Calvin88

How's north carolina


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## AquaPlayz

Haven't moved yet, though I'm stressing because my breather bags have to be shipped again because they went to the wrong address :S
Also I am a awful packed, kinda though I would be better after 10 moves 
Oh a pet store there I saw while on vacation has 2 black caiman and 1 gator, didn't have a large selection if stuff but everything was healthy.


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## Calvin88

That's good, would pea puffers or bumble bee gobies be better?


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## AquaPlayz

I love both, the gobiesare harder to feed but the puffers are too, also the gobies have to be in a species only tank as they are small and slow so will starve though they are very cool, oh and I think they need brackish, not 100% ill check after I post this.


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## AquaPlayz

Here's a profile of the gobys
Brachygobius doriae – Bumblebee Goby â€” Seriously Fish


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## Calvin88

Too much wood? Changing substrate to white sand


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## AquaPlayz

For puffers would be perfect, gobies they like alot of floor space, but I would personally take out the front piece and told back piece upwards alittle.


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## Calvin88

I'll do puffers, but white sand is what I'm going with


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, white sand is alot better IMO, oh and I would move the forward piece to the back abit too, looks pretty close to the front.


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## Calvin88

Yeah, I will! So did that lfs have any odd balls?


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## AquaPlayz

Ok cool.
Yeah, some freshwater flounders, tons of full grown cichlids, and a few others I cant remember, also a full grown common pleco.
Its a old mom and pop store, doesn't carry tons of products, but there stock looked healthy.


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## Calvin88

would a fw flounder work????


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## AquaPlayz

No,they get big and I'd I recall correctly are coldwater as well, they get up to 1' in diameter I think.


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## Calvin88

nevermind, so have you started school


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## AquaPlayz

Lol, maybe you could do a small pond with some hog chockers and misc native fish.
Yeah, I'm going to public school when I move but still being home schooled till then, I started late because I was suppose to do virtual school but theres where problems so I had to do a home school thing.


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## Calvin88

so your around 13?


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## AquaPlayz

Yeah, around there, don't wanna say my exact age for security reasons, but yeah around there.


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## Calvin88

well duh, whats was your best find in florida?


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## Calvin88

so, what heater should i get


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## AquaPlayz

Lol, oh god, over 9 years of living here there alot, I once saw 2 baby albino sharks and a manta ray at the beach.
Also say alot of gators and turtles.


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## Calvin88

Holy crap!!!!!! Here's new driftwood position


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## AquaPlayz

Lol, it was during high tide after a heavy rain so they must've gotten driven up.
Looks good, could attach some moss or rhizome plants and make it a DIY tree.


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## Calvin88

I will add moss at base of wood and Java fern on this block


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## AquaPlayz

You'll need a 40 watt heater, marineland heaters are good and hydro Theo I heard where good.
Ok cool, that looks like cypress, you'll need to boil it and attach some slate or something to it so it sinks.


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## Calvin88

Ok, know any Indian Val species


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## AquaPlayz

Box a few Asian but not India so they will be the closes you'll get
The first 3 here are from asia
Vallisneria


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## Calvin88

What biotope tank plants?


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## AquaPlayz

Here's abunch of plants from india
India


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## Calvin88

I don't know if I could do a biotope


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## AquaPlayz

Why not? Alot of those plants are readily available.


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## Calvin88

I guess, but freshwater bumblebee gobies will work, but what about shrimp


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## AquaPlayz

I believe the shrimp may starve them as well,but you could get like 8-12 gobies I think.
Also another cool fish I'd freshwater gobies, bumble bee gobies ok best in brackish water


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## Calvin88

So gold-banned gobies and 3 pea puffers! I'll hand feed gobies! Talk to you around 9 am central time tomorrow


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## AquaPlayz

The bumble bees may be ok.
Here's a list of freshwater and brackish gobies
Gobies for the Freshwater and Brackish Tank
The dessert goby is cool and a true freshwater.


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## AquaPlayz

The bumble bees may be ok.
Here's a list of freshwater and brackish gobies
Gobies for the Freshwater and Brackish Tank
The dessert goby is cool and a true freshwater


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## Calvin88

Might do just gobies, or idk


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## AquaPlayz

Humm, give me a sec, could divide and have 2 puffers in one side and gobies in the other side, but need to make sure gobies will be fine.


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## Calvin88

Wood is too big to have divided 5 gallon, would use glass as gobies are brakish


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## AquaPlayz

The bumble bee gobies need a footprint of 45cm by 30cm which is about how big a 10g is, have you ever seen freshwater neon gobies? They are true freshwater I believe and will do fine with the puffers.


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## Calvin88

I want something that will eat guppy fry


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## AquaPlayz

The puffers will do that I think, could still do a 2.5g with a cpo cray


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## Calvin88

A king Betta?


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## AquaPlayz

The betta cant be with puffers but could do on in a 2.5g, though a kind needs a 5g I think.


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## Calvin88

What about sa leaf fish


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## AquaPlayz

They need a 20g tank.


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## Calvin88

I read that they're inactive a little and I could keep 1


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## Calvin88

Hey, so I am really wanting to commute to a North Carolina native tank, so for inverts 1-3 dwarf Cajun crayfish, x amount of ghost shrimp, 3-4 swamp darters then maybe one of these three options. speckled mosquito fish, dwarf sunfish or least killed I don't know yet. I think white sand with oak leaves, driftwood roots, only 2-3 submerged plants species and maybe a corner of duckweed (will us fishing line or straws to block off corner


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## Calvin88

I think the two plants will be edolea and eel-grass. Maybe sago pondweed


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## AquaPlayz

Ok, I personally don't trust any crays except cpos and self cloning/marbled crays to be together, but the least killifish are probably here.
What about some kind of killifish? I will get a link to some in NC


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## AquaPlayz

Here's ya go
Checklist of Freshwater Fishes Native to North America Profundulidae (Middle American Killifishes)


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## Calvin88

Do you think you could collect this weekend


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## Calvin88

Hey, how's NC


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## Calvin88

okay, so I got a 1 gallon for my teacher and was thinking sand, rocks, small tiwgs and a snail


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## Calvin88

Getting a cold water marine fish tank!! It will have fish and other goodies from the Oregon tidepools!


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