# Ammonia burn or fin rot?



## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

I hate this to be my first post here, but I am completely and utterly stuck. I've looked up photographs of betta with fin rot and ammonia burn, and I just can't figure out what my boy Leorio is suffering from. He's a double tail that's starting to look like a crown tail! The edges of his fins turn dark or black (at first I thought he was growing in some coloring), but I haven't seen much of the white fin I've been told to look out for. He has no bloody spots or inflamed gills as far as I can tell either. I'm a complete newbie to betta fish keeping.
I'd like to know if I'm treating him for the correct ailment, and since there are people here with years of experience I'm hoping to get some advice! 

*Housing:*
*How many gallons is your tank?* 3 Gallon Tank 
*Does it have a filter?* Yes! The filter that came with the tank which was a (Tetra 3gal cube)
*Does it have a heater?* Yes! 
*What temperature is your tank?* 78~80 degrees Fahrenheit 
*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?* No
*Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?* No, he's on his own.

*Food:
What food brand do you use?* Hikari Brand Pellets/Tetra Betta Flakes/Top Fin Blood Worms
*Do you feed flakes or pellets?* The Hikari Pellets are his main staple
*Freeze-dried?* Sometimes I give him the freeze-dried krill from the flakes container as a treat.
*How often do you feed your Betta? How much?* 3 times a day/ 2 pellets each time. As of last night we skipped dinner + breakfast this morning while I try to get the ammonia out.

*Maintenance:*
*Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? * Since the tank is not cycled, I was doing a 20% change every other day to combat a nitrite spike. When it was gone, I stopped for 3 days, then found the ammonia spike. 20% changes every day after that for 3 days, but it's not going down as fast as I want it to, to I did a 40% yesterday. Planning to do another 40% today.
*What percentage of water did you change?*
*What is the source of your water?* It's tap, but I usually treat it with seachem prime and let it sit over night before putting it in the tank.
*Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?* I've been dipping out water normally, taking solid waste out with a small straw tube. The last two water changes I vacuumed the substrate with a siphon.
*What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?* SeaChem Prime/Jungle Start Right (Prime goes in the tank every 24hrs + the water change water, Start Right goes into the water change water only)

*Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water *before* the regular water change; not after one.*

*Ammonia:* 2.0 ppm
*Nitrite:* 0.0 ppm
*Nitrate:* 0.0 ppm
*pH:* 6.0
*Hardness (GH):* I don't have a way to test this, I'm sorry!
*Alkalinity (KH):* This either! I'm sorry 

*Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?* 1/20/2019
*How has your Betta’s appearance changed?* Fins are frayed, but evenly. He almost looks like a crowntail now.
*How has your Betta’s behavior changed?* No, he's always been a very active betta, he continues to be so. 
*Is your Betta still eating?* Yes
*Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?* Daily water changes, plan to do another 40% today 1/26. Also I bought API BettaFix last night and dosed it but I'm skeptical I'm doing the right thing. 
*Does your Betta have any history of being ill?* No
*How long have you owned your Betta? * Since 12/28/2019
*Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?* Not that I could see. He seemed eager to get out of his cup! I thought he'd calm down once he was in a tank, but he's still incredibly active.


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## trahana (Dec 28, 2015)

*3 Gallon Tank + 20% water changes = Ammonia:* 2.0 ppm
So what's happening is you have a small tank with few water changes and not enough water changed. This means your betta could be suffering from Both ammonia burns and fin rot. Ammonia weakens the body and finrot can set in very quickly because bacteria exists in the water at all times. 



I would do a 60-70% water changes two days in a row to get the ammonia in check. Check your tap to see if it contains Ammonia. Change the tank water 50% every other day until your tank cycles. Check ammonia weekly and do more water changes if neeeded.

Bettafix is often considered the weakest medicine you can buy, its a general fix and doesn't do much. The good news is clean water can heal your betta too. I use melafix to help heal minor finrot since its gentle on the fish and the nitrifying bacteria.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

trahana said:


> *3 Gallon Tank + 20% water changes = Ammonia:* 2.0 ppm
> So what's happening is you have a small tank with few water changes and not enough water changed. This means your betta could be suffering from Both ammonia burns and fin rot. Ammonia weakens the body and finrot can set in very quickly because bacteria exists in the water at all times.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I was reading about using aquarium salt, but I got spooked since it sounds intense so I thought I'd make absolutely sure I knew what was going on first. I'll run down and grab some melafix and today's water change will be the first 60-70% as recommended. I can't thank you enough!

Edit: My tap does apparently contain 0.25 ppm ammonia


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

I agree with all of what @Riven has suggested. But I would add that if you follow the forum fish in guidance, you would be adding 2 drops of Prime for every gallon, every second day. Until your tank has cycled.

The Prime binds the ammonia and prevents it from being harmful, but only lasts around 48 hours. So it has to keep being added until the tank has cycled. This won’t have happened til you get nitrites and then nitrates, followed by just nitrates. This could take a while.

Here is the link to the full instructions:
https://www.bettafish.com/30-betta-fish-care/507585-cycling-two-sentence-tutorial.html


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

bluesamphire said:


> I agree with all of what @Riven has suggested. But I would add that if you follow the forum fish in guidance, you would be adding 2 drops of Prime for every gallon, every second day. Until your tank has cycled.
> 
> The Prime binds the ammonia and prevents it from being harmful, but only lasts around 48 hours. So it has to keep being added until the tank has cycled. This won’t have happened til you get nitrites and then nitrates, followed by just nitrates. This could take a while.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I had a nitrite spike earlier on, so luckily I've already been dosing with seachem prime! Due to my nervousness, I've been dosing every 24 hours instead of the suggested 48. The one day I forgot to, this fin deterioration really sped up. I'll keep doing so until I'm confident it's cycled! Thank you so much for the advice!!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Riven said:


> Thank you! I had a nitrite spike earlier on, so luckily I've already been dosing with seachem prime! Due to my nervousness, I've been dosing every 24 hours instead of the suggested 48. The one day I forgot to, this fin deterioration really sped up. I'll keep doing so until I'm confident it's cycled! Thank you so much for the advice!!


The real thanks goes to @RussellTheShihTzu she is the one who showed me that link. :smile2:


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

> Change half the water when either ammonia or nitrite approach 0.25-0.50ppm, or weekly, whichever comes first. Add Seachem Prime at 2-drops per gallon of tank size every day until cycled.


It is actually recommended to add Prime daily. 

The first thing I would do is go out and buy a SeaChem Ammonia Alert if you are using an API product. The AA only reads NH3 or Toxic/Free Ammonia while the API reads Total Ammonia or a mixture of NH3 and NH4 or non-toxic Ammonium. Which, in short, means your tank and tap water00 could have Ammonium and not NH3.

Still, we need to address his fins. Did they appear this way seemingly overnight? Or slowly? Have you checked all of the things in his tank for sharp edges or burrs? If not, use hose and run over decor. If the hose snag then so will his fins. Can you post a photo of him before and one of the entire tank?

I would do several 50% water changes until the Ammonia reads 0 just to relieve my mind.

Thank you.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> It is actually recommended to add Prime daily.
> 
> The first thing I would do is go out and buy a SeaChem Ammonia Alert if you are using an API product. The AA only reads NH3 or Toxic/Free Ammonia while the API reads Total Ammonia or a mixture of NH3 and NH4 or non-toxic Ammonium. Which, in short, means your tank and tap water00 could have Ammonium and not NH3.
> 
> ...


I'm relieved to hear that! I've been dosing seachem daily since the nitrite spike, but there was one day I slipped up and forgot, and that's when I really noticed his fins were deteriorating. It was only thinking back I remembered he was growing a uniform dark marking along his tail which I thought was just coloration. My guess was that he got hit with all the ammonia as it was released from the seachem binder on the day I forgot to put it in, but I wasn't sure... After that day it was suddenly very noticeable, like "Wow they're actually looking shredded!"

His tank had a plastic decoration in it at first, and on the first or second day I had him, he cut his tail on it and I removed it. Currently, there is 2 small colored glass bottles, some marbles, a "cave" and 4 real plants (1 anubis nana and 3 java fern) in the tank, along with the heater and filter. His substrate is fine, but not sand if that makes sense? 

I am using an API test kit actually! They went on sale on Amazon around the time I got him, so I was really lucky. That sounds like just what I need to monitor the ammonia (or ammonium, I didn't realize there was a difference!)

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate this! Here's a couple pictures of his tank as it is today currently, and some pictures of Leorio (Near one of the glass bottles) from 1/14/2019, which was when I first noticed the black band "marking". The picture of him near the moss ball (which I am treating separately as it also began to deteriorate very suddenly the same time as Leorio) was taken on 1/2/2019, where you can see the tears from his encounter with the plastic tree I had in there. Luckily I take a lot of pictures of him!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

He appears to have some natural web reduction in both his caudal and dorsal fins. I have attached a photo of Spike. You can see his web reduction in his dorsal and anal fins. It is why I named him "Spike." ;-) Web reduction has been mistaken as fin biting.

There is also damage which may or may not be fin rot. On the chance it is, just keep the water clean. You can add Indian Almond Leaves or Rooibos Tea but I am not sure that they wouldn't stain that white substrate. Instead, you could add SeaChem StressGuard which has antiseptic properties. It is dosed daily. Or the Melafix as @trahana suggested.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Spike is so so so gorgeous! (Although, I don't suppose he needs me to tell him that  Leorio did look a lot like that when I first adopted him, though at the time I thought he'd perhaps injured himself. Now I'll know for sure when his fins recover!

I'm not sure if anyone was interested in an update, but just in case they were;

- The tanks ammonia is down to 0.50 ppm
- Completed the two suggested large water changes (60%) on Saturday and Sunday. Monday and Tuesday (today) were 40% water changes.
- I wanted to wait until the bettafix cycled out of the tank before starting melafix, so today is his first day on melafix. 
- Dosed 1.5mL of melafix based on the 5mL/10gal math on the bottle (Leo is in a 3gal tank)
- I didn't realize I should've removed the carbon filter cartridge in the filter for the bettafix, so I have removed it for the melafix.
- My Indian almond leaves arrived Sunday, so he has two in there with him!
- Leorio's marimo ball recovered, so that has also rejoined him in the tank!  

I can't say for sure if he's become worse, and if he has it isn't by much. Though, there isn't any noticeable recovery either, but I'm probably just being worried and anxious about it! He's still an active betta, thank goodness!

I'll keep this post updated, thank you all so much for your help!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you for the update. We always like to hear how a Betta is doing. And thank you for the compliment on Spike. See what I mean by how easy it is to mistake web reduction for fin biting? Especially when it is more than what Spike and Leorio have.

I cannot recommend highly enough the SeaChem Ammonia Alert which only reads NH3. They tell you whether the API Ammonia reading is reflective of the toxic NH3 or Free Ammonia or NH4 which is Ammonium and harmless. The API test does not differentiate as it reads something called Total Ammonia which is both combined.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Update:

Leorio finished a round of Melafix just yesterday with his 7th daily dose. On February 2nd I skipped the water change on the hopes that bacteria might build up, then skipped again on the 3rd because I re-read the Melafix bottle and saw this time around I wasn't supposed to do any water changes until the end of the dose, grhg 

On the 4th the ammonia had gone back up to 2.0. I have the SeaChem Ammonia Alert on it's way from Amazon, so I'm excited to get that in finally as they're taking their time to ship it! My local aquarium store didn't have it, though it did have duckweed so the tank is just a tad more planted now. The "canary in the mine" marimo ball is still okay, but it does seem like Leorio's fins are getting worse, possibly faster now that he's off Melafix and I've done a water change. 

I'm wondering if I should:
- Keep dosing Melafix anyway? (Even though it says to stop at 7 days in a row)
- Wait a week and do another round of Melafix? (Maybe this time w/o water changes to interrupt it)
- Put my carbon filter back in to get rid of the Melafix and start a new medication? 
- Just wait another 24 hours for the Melafix to cycle out and start another medication? 

I did order some kanaplex and I have it on hand, but not sure if that would be preferable to Melafix at this point. 

I've also been snapping pictures of my boy all the while because I wasn't sure if I was seeing improvement while he was on Melafix. The changes in water color are the Indian Almond leaves I'd added to the tank, but have since removed since I was worried about their decay adding to the tank with no carbon filter. (still not 100% sure if I made the right choice there!) I'm thinking of boiling them as a tea and sort of dropping the fish-tea (?) in.

Any thoughts would be cool, if not my plan is to get that ammonia alert in, but also wait 2 more days and then give the kanaplex a try. I'm nervous though! :blueshake:

Edit: He is still eating + active, though tonight and tomorrow will be another fasting day for him. He even had some brine shrimp for the first time last night, he seemed to like them  I've also continued to dose Seachem Prime every 24 hours


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

For whatever reason the photos are showing "invalid attachment" when clicked upon.

Never mind. This time it worked.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Oh yeah! Sorry about that! When I first posted, I had a longer photo, but realized upon clicking it didn't get nearly large enough to see any details on, so I changed them up!


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Update: The Melafix did seem to stop or slow the progression, because the three days in-between his final dose of Melafix I did water changes and dosed nothing to make sure it was cleared out, and it started to progress again.

I followed a little tutorial called "From Banged up to Buffed up" on YouTube to dose Kanaplex and Jungle Fungus Clear on the 8th of February. Leorio got his second dose of Kanaplex on the 10th, and after a 50% water change today he got his final dose of Kanaplex and a second, final dose of Jungle Fungus Clear. 

My anxiety brain says, "Oh no, it's getting worse," because now I'm seeing these white tips on his fins all the time. But logic brain says, "Maybe it's helping?" Because I'm watching that black stripe on his tail sew up. Or get smaller. I don't know ghghghhhh

The jury is out on if I will try the treatment again in a week, as recommended by Kanaplex, or if I should try a different medication. Also debating with myself if I'll dose Melafix in between to keep it from progressing in it's wake or if I should just focus on keeping the water clean instead?

My ammonia alert came in two days ago, and I love it so far! During the initial dose, I was unable to do a water change, so I've already seen it change from a light green and back to yellow after the change today. It's saving me from testing my tank daily as I had been!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

White or clear edges _usually_ indicate regrowth. Hope that's the case. Just keep a good watch. If the Kanaplex is working then that is what I would do. If you want to treat with Melafix, add carbon to the filter before you add the Kanaplex to remove all of the Melafix; or, do a large water change.

Glad you like the Ammonia Alert. Still test water every other day and do water changes if the API test reads Ammonia.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

So I've been doing selective testing since his fins started fraying, focusing on ammonia, which nitrites and pH off-and-on. I decided to do a test of everything this afternoon and was shocked to find my pH had gone from a lowly 6.0 before starting the medications a week or two ago to a 8.0. I need to keep a closer eye on that! I rinsed off some Indian Almond Leaves and popped two sizeable ones in the tank in an effort to gradually lower the pH but I'm wondering if:

1. Would a high pH inhibit the effects of Kanaplex/Jungle Fugus Clear

2. Could a high pH be caused by the medication

If it is caused by the medication, then his last dose was on Tuesday and I'll be doing a water change tomorrow as the JFC will no longer be active, so hopefully that will start to improve the pH. The tank will be resting a week as recommended by Kanaplex after tomorrow as well before I move on to trying anything else. 

But if it is not caused by medication, I'm wondering what effects the high pH would have on his fins and the bacteria I'm attempting to culture in order to cycle the tank...

And in addition to all that, I found that the pinhole in his dorsal has actually become two, and the pinhole on his anal fin has increased in size so that it's nearly a tear now, meaning the Kanaplex wasn't very effective. I have my eyes on Furan-2 for my next try, but I need to read more about it. I'm also totally open to suggestions. 

I'm sorry for posting so frequently in such an anxious state! Thank you so much for all of your advice!


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Riven said:


> And in addition to all that, I found that the pinhole in his dorsal has actually become two, and the pinhole on his anal fin has increased in size so that it's nearly a tear now, meaning the Kanaplex wasn't very effective. I have my eyes on Furan-2 for my next try, but I need to read more about it. I'm also totally open to suggestions.


After doing a bit of reading, I found that Furan-2 has the same active ingredients as Jungle Fungus Clear, which I've already treated with. I've decided to try E.M. Erythromycin next as it treats gram-positive infections and it's apparently slightly possible my boy is suffering from that.


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## Riven (Jan 26, 2019)

Updating again! 

The bad news: 

E.M. Erythromycin seemed to have done just as much as Kanaplex, which is not much if anything. I've decided to give the tank another rest w/o medication and see how he does on just API StressCoat + and regular water changes. 

The good news:

Ammonia is down to 0! 
Nitrites are also down to 0!
Nitrates are also reading 0 but I'm planning to do a third test and shake the testing liquid -even more- (Curse my wimpy arms!)

The Eh? news: 

My pH dropped to 6.0, which I'm not sure how to feel about. My normal tap is in the 7.0 range, but I did have IAL in the tank up until just yesterday, and took them out before testing today. 

When I was doing a water change, I took his little hide hole out for a rinse and nearly cut my finger! It took me the longest time to find the spot again, but I did: A sharp edge near the opening in just the top corner. I feel like such a fool! If he's using his hide-out, which he does often just swimming through, there's no way it's not having some effect on his fins.

I sanded the heck out of the whole entryway and put it back in. Hopefully this will mitigate damage! 

So yeah, "Plan D" I think I'm on now will be Stresscoat +, (Daily, double dose for injury as recommended on the bottle) meals and clean water.


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