# Betta Elitism



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

This is just sort of a rant if you would call it, or maybe a light discussion. Maybe someone here feels the same? 
But when I'm on this forum, I feel like I'm walking on pins and needles whenever I post a picture, or talk about my fish, afraid that betta elitists will jump down my throat for the wrong color substrate, or the tint of my fish suggesting that he's in moral emotional distraught. Now I want to say up front that's not always the case, but it is the subject of this thread.

I understand that there are definitely some important rules to betta care, but in my experience here, I've heard a lot of conflicting arguments, both from valid and experienced betta owners. In the end, sometimes I felt more overwhelmed with the information that I often OVERTHOUGHT a lot of the way I took care of my betta. My friends who also had bettas, looked at me like I was insane for the scrutiny I had on my fish and every micromanaging aspect of his life. In the end, their fish were also happy, lived long and healthy lives, and they never onced over-researched it to the degree that I had. I'm not saying that it's bad to be well-informed about betta care, but I guess my question is: how much is too much? 

I had become so much of a betta-hypochondriac that I wonder if that had resulted in unnecessary treatments and long hours of woe and stress. So much of it was due to elitist betta owners on other sites, and even deviantart, railing on the way I treated my fish, yet anyone who knew me in real life, knew that fish had the happiest, healthiest and most spoiled life of any creature they'd ever known. I'm not saying I was a pro-betta-care efficianado, and there things I could have done better, but it always astounds me how some novice fish hobbyists can run something as complex as a saltwater tank with exotic fish, and not nearly go through the bells and whistles that I did for one betta. 

I guess what I'm saying is, I feel like I'm going crazy here XDD I want to start a sorority tank when I get an apartment of my own but I'm so afraid that I'll be "doing it wrong," no matter how much I research into it... I dunno, anyone else feel the same way?


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've never had too much of a problem with that, but I can see what you're saying. When I had Jalen in a 1 gal when I first got him, I would post on here and say 'yea, I know his tank is the minimum size, but I didn't know that when I got him, and I'm upgrading him soon,' and people would still sometimes imply that I was being cruel or something.


----------



## ShyDog (Oct 15, 2011)

I can see, and agree with both sides of this statement. There are people on this site who put immense amounts of time and money into these fish, and all animals and just want to see them happy and healthy. Part of it is the way they are treated in pet stores, and the general misinformation of employees or blatant negligance. It boils blood...easily especially since people have this idea that fish are lesser than other pets like dogs, snakes, cats ect. 

However, it's up to you the owner to decide what is right for you, and your fish. There is always going to be the most optimal condition for any pet, but as long as your fish is exhibiting healthy signs and seems happy I would say you're doing a good job. 

As long as you are providing a reasonable place for your betta (1+ gallon) with good care, *it will always be better off than the cup you bought it in* 

I honestly think some of the members are so severe is because not everyone keeping a betta, or looking at these forums is an adult, it's meant to discourage people, or children without the time or capibility to do some things mentioned (such as sororities, breeding, or community tanks). 


as far as your sorority idea goes, I have had my males for a couple of months now, and I recently came into a 10 gallon, and wanted to make it a sorority. After reading extensively, and backing it with my previous aquarium experience (kept salt water, and freshwater tanks for 4 years). I decided to go for it. People have been nothing but receptive, and helpful when they see you want to do the best thing for your fish,and if you can reasonably provide for them they will reasonably respond just my two cents.





ThirdPotato said:


> I guess what I'm saying is, I feel like I'm going crazy here XDD I want to start a sorority tank when I get an apartment of my own but I'm so afraid that I'll be "doing it wrong," no matter how much I research into it... I dunno, anyone else feel the same way?


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Here's my opinion as a moderator and a fellow forum member. If you are caring for your fish to the best of your ability and they are happy and healthy, then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. You're going to get a LOT of opinions. It's your responsibility to find, among those opinions, what works best for you and ensures your fish receive prompt care and attention. 

We all had to go through that newbie thing. We all had to learn. But starting with obsessive care is TOTALLY normal for someone who cares for animals and is wading in unfamiliar territory. Then you learn what works for you, and you start to relax. 

Everyone has their opinions and they are entitled to them. And you're entitled to ignore them. Just make sure to report anything you think is abusive or mean.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I am sorry you are being made to feel that way.....I do agree we do have some members that due to their passion can be overly critical of others when your method differs from theirs.....

There are lots of correct ways to keep this species of fish-more than one right way to do it-you have some standards of care-but even this can vary.......The way I keep my Bettas differs from most of the members on this site as well and my views of keeping this species differ greatly in several areas of keeping....but I view this species as a domesticated fish-not its wild cousin...not a human or even a dog or cat......

By understanding the anatomy/physiology of this species can answer a lot of question and assist in proper keeping.

By understanding their environment can answer even more questions to assist in keeping this species and any species of fish for that matter....

To be a good keeper of fish you must first be a good keeper of water.....

Over the many years that I have kept fish-I have conducted many different experiments that have helped me answer a lot of question and bust myths....

Lots and lots of myths as well as out-dated information that is repeated so much that it soon is viewed as fact...when it is still only a myth......these myths and out-dated information are really hard to bust......and often well meaning members will base information on these myths/out dated info-that can further confuse new to the hobby members.

What is important in my opinion-is that your personal fish are thriving with your care and method of care.......lots of different ways to keep fish...its finding what works for you, your Betta and what you have on hand......


----------



## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I do think that there are some basic standards that need to be upheld. I don't care so much about the tank size, but I am a huge stickler about it being warm. I really can't emphasize enough that they are _*tropical* _fish. I am also a strong believer in good nutrition. Maybe it is because I struggle with most people feeding their dogs moldy corn and byproducts in a bag most of the time, but spending $3 more on the better food that will last at least a year for a fish is just something I think should be done. 

Why are larger tanks always suggested? Because they are so much easier for a beginner. Less water changes, easier to heat. I know that most of the breeders on this site can't keep all their fish in even 1 gallon, but they keep the water warm and clean and have the experience and desire to do so. You have to remember that probably 99% of first time betta owners bought their fish on impulse, knowing nothing about these fish, and many will get bored and neglectful. A larger tank or a little bit of an investment can make all the difference for the fish.


----------



## Bellus Bellator (Oct 9, 2011)

I kinda understand what you're are saying but all in all I think everyone is very helpful and as OLF said what your mistaking for critical behavior is simply passion.
You have to figure out what works best for you.For example I was given conflicting advice about the length of time my betta should do his aquarium salt treatment for fin rot,a lot of people said up to 14 days while some were adamant no more than 10.In the end my betta told me by going pale and having a funny little episode on his 12th day of treatment so I put him back in his tank and now he's fine.In future I'll just do 10 days.
I must admit though I do get a little shy about being so in love with my betta and thiking he's so beautiful when he's simply a red veil tail and not some marbled butterfly or copper dragonscale :-D


----------



## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Yeah, I understand what you mean. People have opinions, and you just have to sort through them and find the ones that arent completely wack. There are alot of people on the internet who have nothing better to do, even here. Heck, on another forum I had people berate me badly for letting my cats outside LOL! It's pretty much just a matter of finding what works best for you and keeps your fish healthy.


----------



## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

Only you know what is fully best for your fish. You are the one who sees him everyday. So reguardless how others talk to you, it is always your opinion that really matters to you and your fish.
I have had a few Bettas in 1.5 gallons, some people would tell me it was too small but I knew for that certain betta, that they perfered those tanks.
It still sucks when some people are rude though, it always makes me feel bad when someone gets mad at me. Sometimes, even though you know your fish are happy, people can still make you feel like a bad owner.

I think one of the reasons some people on betta forums come off rude is because they have gave the same advice many many times, when they see a fish in a small tank they cannot help but tell you about it with the weight of many other people doing the same thing. 
I know sometimes when someone tells me about how their pet is eating cheap food for instance, I usually think of all the stories I heard before of a pet getting sick and whatnot and cannot help but sound overly concered.

It may be hard, but basically just take the advice that you think you need and remember that most are just trying to help (and then there are trolls. lol).


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

I completely agree.. Everyone has their opinion & some people like to stand on their soapbox & tell everyone else its the only way of doing things.. When talking about something alive those emotions that drive this behavior become even stronger.. A good example is a recent thread where someone has 200 betta's & was completely slammed by several people for keeping them in small quarters.. Well look at the alternative for those fish. Most would ahve probably been kept in vase's or mason jars living off of plant roots until they died a few months later. So this one individual is giving 200 fish a "B" grade of life as opposed to giving much much less fish an "A+" lifestyle. So is this person doing wrong by rescueing so many fish & having to make some compermises, or is it better to spoil a few & let the rest suffer the alternative? (& this is not actually meant to spark a conversation on the subject, only to make a point that different folks have different views & they may all be right or wrong).


----------



## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

The way I see it...if your bettas are happy, that's the most important thing. Sure keeping the water warm, and clean are very important, but besides that, there are many ways to keep your fish that are right for you.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I have to say I am sometimes surprised at how critical forum members can be. Criticism should always be given (constructively) but I think a lot of people can be too harsh in doing it. There is always a polite way to give your opinion.  And I do know what you mean - on a different forum I was slammed for not replacing my faulty nitrate kit because I chose to spend the money on a vet bill, instead, which was just ridiculous. We have to learn to shrug off those criticisms that are blatantly outrageous, cruel or nitpicky, because ultimately, we know our situations and our bettas.
Obviously some people will use this excuse and say their betta is 'happy' in room temperature water in a 500ml jar or something, but obviously that's not true for you.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

All forums tend to be..horribly critical. Try visiting a computer forum. Expect to leave in tears, they are HARSH.

The danger of forums is we can let out passion blind us in anger and we lash out on the new user who is doing something wrong. But... If a new user is attacked on a computer forum and is attacked to the point that they run away--that's no problem. They can just get a new computer or deal with the problem. But if a new fish owner is attacked to the point where they run away... They still have a sick fish who can suffer and die without the help.

I think it would be nice if things were put a little more gently  Yes, we do want the best for the fish, but remember if you scare the owner off with an attack, the fish has not been helped at all!


----------



## erinandares (Oct 4, 2011)

^ +1000, purplemuffin! :3

No one has been overly critical to me personally, but I do know where the OP is coming from in saying that a lot of people are really harsh sometimes on this site. Most definitely not pointing any fingers at all. I see people getting exasperated easily, and it's understandable when we're talking about beautiful living creatures we all only want the best for. But still. It's like when I used to peer tutor special ed kids (definitely not saying anyone is mentally handicapped, just making a comparison. lol). It would be like me going off on one of my autistic kids because they won't talk or they only eat the same thing day after day. They don't know any better. New owners often don't know any better. They try their best with what they have. As long as the criticism is strictly constructive and not mean, I think there's nothing wrong with it. It's when people start nitpicking and throwing out broad generalizations when feelings get hurt.


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

purplemuffin said:


> All forums tend to be..horribly critical. Try visiting a computer forum. Expect to leave in tears, they are HARSH.


heh.. My normal forum hangout is Genmay on the [H]ard|Forum.. Nothing anyone can say on any forum bothers me too much anymore.


----------



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Man all these replies have really helped me a lot. I guess it stands to reason that these people are just passionate about their fish, though one should never assume that the other person isn't either. 

It would seem to me, that anyone who would bother to register and post on a forum about bettas has enough heart to treat them like a pet, and not like an object. Most of those spontaneous-buyers wouldn't even bother to go on a forum in the first place, but if they do, should be welcomed with open arms so that they can learn about their betta in a safe and tactful environment. 

I agree with what a lot of people are saying, and it's really helped me understand things too, especially hearing from some of the senior members, that they don't always follow "standard protocol." XD I also got a kick about the computer-forum comment.

I guess the reason it struck me so deep, is because I am exceedingly passionate about my pets, from my fish, to my bunnies, to my hermit crab. When I see bunnies in cages it always makes me cringe, and I often like to tell people to get them a solid flooring for their feet, so I can see why the members here tend to jump-the-gun when it comes to betta critique, though yes, it should always be dealt with tact, or else it's just spoken out of the need to be right, and less out of the love for the animal. 

Anyway, this discussion has encouraged me to tackle my sorority tank with new fervor n.n


----------



## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

Plus we are all a little biased since we strongly believe that we have a "right way" when it comes to things. For instance, I would tell you to plant your sorority to the point that even seeing one of your fish would be like seeing bigfoot because they could be so well hidden. However, others have had success with sororities that are lightly planted. It really is about finding what works for you.


----------



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Kytkattin said:


> Plus we are all a little biased since we strongly believe that we have a "right way" when it comes to things. For instance, I would tell you to plant your sorority to the point that even seeing one of your fish would be like seeing bigfoot because they could be so well hidden. However, others have had success with sororities that are lightly planted. It really is about finding what works for you.


Funny you should mention XD I wanted to do up a nice planted tank, but not to the point where they're TOTALLY hidden. XD but I do want some nice greenery.


----------



## elijahfeathers (Oct 15, 2010)

I tend to get angry sometimes, when people keep fish in small tanks. Not because I don't think they are good fishkeepers, but because then someone getting a betta for the first times goes; Oh 1/2 gallon is fine lots of people do it! It's only a bit smaller than a 1 gallon and that's a good home!

The other, more grouchy side of me notes that when I started I was a TERRIBLE HORRIBLE person if I had a 1 gallon tank. And I 'NEEDED' a 10 gallon, and I 'needed' the most expensive best food, and I 'needed' expensive adjustable heaters, ect. And I spent a lot of time and money getting the 'best' things and wanting to be part of the cool kids club. So part of it is feeling a little like I had to walk uphill in the snow both ways... and now things are laxing up.

Honestly the way people talk here your 10 gal is overstocked if you have more than one betta fish in it. I started to realize how silly it sounded when someone said something about people not 'playing' with their fish enough being bad owners.

And you know what? I've been a lot happier since I stopped treating my fish like little people. I change the water slightly less often and the fish are happier. Instead of dunking them in 8 kinds of salt at the first hint of illness I wait a bit-- and you know, what, it clears up sometimes. I don't carefully measure my food and feed three small meals a day.

Do you know what I've seen since doing this? Happier, healthier fish who are more vibrant and more active. Of course, I'm starting to come out of my year-long obsessive streak of wanting ever betta I ever saw, too. I like my 10 gallon a lot more now that it's not divided into 4. Calder likes it a lot too. He used to be scared of 10gs, but as I slowly moved other fish out, and slowly he space go larger... well, it's not too big for him anymore.

Anyway my point is, I think a fish has basic needs... and then I think there's what people are comfortable with and they act like you're a terrible person if you don't have that. I enjoy my fish a lot more doing things my way. And most of the time, I just lie here if I know it's going to be a problem. (Horrible, I know. But I'd rather not face a lecture I know the front and back of 80 times for changing my 2.5 g once a week instead of twice)


----------



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

elijahfeathers said:


> ...
> Honestly the way people talk here your 10 gal is overstocked if you have more than one betta fish in it. I started to realize how silly it sounded when someone said something about people not 'playing' with their fish enough being bad owners.
> 
> And you know what? I've been a lot happier since I stopped treating my fish like little people. I change the water slightly less often and the fish are happier. Instead of dunking them in 8 kinds of salt at the first hint of illness I wait a bit-- and you know, what, it clears up sometimes. I don't carefully measure my food and feed three small meals a day...


Well there's nothing silly about playing with a fish attall, actually. I loved my fish more than I've loved most people, and treated him no different than I'd treat family. I'd show him the things I bought from stores, I would dangle shiny things in front of his tank throughout the day to keep him stimulated, I would talk to him. When he got sick and I had to leave for a few weeks, I left my photo with him and hell, I even skyped... my fish... XDD I left him videos so he wouldn't be lonely. That little guy stayed by my photo as he got sick and old u.u he was going blind, but he stayed in that part of the tank, watching my photo awaiting my return. He held on to the last bit of life just until I came home. He passed away the following morning as I held him in his bowl... u.u (not IN his bowl, held his bowl.)

Fish_ are _like little people, as is any animal when you get to know them. 

That being said, in all other accounts, I agree with you. It seems ridiculous to -over-think something, while there are definitely some things to keep in mind. I believe the forums have made me more savvy in understanding my fish's eating patterns, diagnosing possible health issues, and providing non-harmful water conditions (which was always a struggle with me). 

But yeah, I never got why people would be _mad_, per say. The only reason for that is if the person started talking about how they loved to see their fish in the tiniest bowl possible just to see them suffer >,< which I don't think is ever anyone's case.


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

I agree that the learning curve can be daunting. And no offense to those of you living in the States, but some people giving advice on this forum tend to be a little American-centric in telling people where to look for things instead of checking the nationality of the person seeking advice and asking what they have available. For instance, I live in a small-medium sized city in British Columbia. The nearest Pet Smarts are 2 hours away and 6 hours away...and as far as I know the nearest Petco is 7.5 hours and a border crossing away. In the event of an emergency, some of the things these forums recommend aren't readily accessible--and ordering on-line isn't always a viable option. I know that when someone is unable to find or afford aquarium salt I look before I tell someone in Arkansas that they can find Kosher salt at the Real Canadian Superstore for about a buck; or that Levamisole is banned by the government and is therefore unavailable; and Panacur can only be obtained with a prescription from a vet. (long story)

Sometimes the fancy submersible heaters that adjust cost more in shipping and handling than the entire tank set-up (including plants and fish) simply because I live in Canada, so I make due with either the cheap submersible from Wal-mart or an adjustable heater that doesn't submerge. As a student with a tight budget I make the best of what I have to work with, so I can understand some of the discomfort that comes with getting flak from some of the elitists on this forum.

It's not the new betta owners that should meet criticsm, but the pet shops that don't do the proper research into the animals they carry, and the employees who don't care about the fact that the fate of something that is every bit as capable of feeling and thinking as we are can be determined by bad advice and inadequate information. I know that before my room-mate found this forum there were a lot of things that even the professors who gave me my first betta didn't know (like flakes are not the best things to feed them). It wasn't until then that I learned to properly read the nutritional information on the packets (my fish don't need the MSG present in Hikari pellets, for instance). However, I agree that there is no one right way to do things...you have to find the basics that everyone agrees on and figure out your own way from there. I try my best to ask questions before I try to give answers unless someone else has asked them first (or there is a sticky about it).

I wish the best of luck to new members and ask that they don't get too discouraged as long as they are not actually putting their pets in danger after they have been made aware that there is a problem. Things do get better once you have a better handle on what you are doing.


----------



## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Yeah. I actually find this forum to be alot more relaxed then another one i'm on. The other one has better info alot of the time,but the members all seem to snap at you before you even do anything wrong(it's what actually made me join this forum. xD I use the other one to reference sicknesses or help but i come here to talk and socialize.)

Hmm, what's that saying? Take what they all have to say with a grain of salt? or something... Anyway, you'll get alot of advice and help, but some of it will conflict. The best thing is to do in get opinions here then cross reference it with some searches on the web. see what you get.

I always suggest a ten gallon to people just because i know from my own experience that it's is alot easier to take care of and doesn't take up much room, and they're cheaper then even a small tank.


----------



## tracyalexa (Mar 29, 2011)

I felt exactly the same way when I first came here. To be quite honest, I found this place to be pretty unwelcoming. But I decided to brush that off and keep coming back because I was learning quite a bit.

When I post something now, there are a handful of people who've advice I will really give thought to (Old Fishlady being the main one...but usually I have to do a search to see if she's commented in a similar area). There is a lot of knowledge here but arrogance comes with that and at the end of the day, I think people just want the best for the fish.

I was a dog handler for years and let me tell you, no matter how great the dogs look - there were always people there to correct and down you. It took the joy out of dog showing for me.

I love my bettas and if I want to keep them in a freakin puddle, I will. No amount of bashing here or anywhere will change that. So....you have to be strong in your research, your love for the fish and your will to ignore the flames...it happens, it's life.  Overall this is a great resource.


----------



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

XD Sounds harsh! Yeah this forum does seem to have a lot more fun socializing threads as well n.n



Bambi said:


> Yeah. I actually find this forum to be alot more relaxed then another one i'm on. The other one has better info alot of the time,but the members all seem to snap at you before you even do anything wrong(it's what actually made me join this forum. xD I use the other one to reference sicknesses or help but i come here to talk and socialize.)
> 
> Hmm, what's that saying? Take what they all have to say with a grain of salt? or something... Anyway, you'll get alot of advice and help, but some of it will conflict. The best thing is to do in get opinions here then cross reference it with some searches on the web. see what you get.
> 
> I always suggest a ten gallon to people just because i know from my own experience that it's is alot easier to take care of and doesn't take up much room, and they're cheaper then even a small tank.


----------



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

tracyalexa said:


> I felt exactly the same way when I first came here. To be quite honest, I found this place to be pretty unwelcoming. But I decided to brush that off and keep coming back because I was learning quite a bit.
> 
> When I post something now, there are a handful of people who've advice I will really give thought to (Old Fishlady being the main one...but usually I have to do a search to see if she's commented in a similar area). There is a lot of knowledge here but arrogance comes with that and at the end of the day, I think people just want the best for the fish.
> 
> ...


I was very much the same way. I kept coming back because the information was invaluable. OldFishLady has helped me out as well XDD Yeah the arrogance with a lot of the users was a big turnoff for me more than anything. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's arrogance. But yeah, as long as it's care for the true welbeing of the animal at the end of the day, thats all that matters.

And yeah, the thing about the dog handling; I had wanted to get into breeding bettas but the more I peruse those forums and other sites the more I'm turned off to the idea... For one, the arrogance in it is ridiculous XD people wanting to breed the best of the best of the best, to the point where the bettas are treated like a commodity than a pet, and I just don't think I'm cut out for that. I'd rather have a closer relationship to one or a few bettas than to breed more than I can handle u.u


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Awww =(

Sometimes I may come off as rude or harsh, but I try to be helpful first off. I tend to get out the info that is needed first, and when that is said and done, I'll come back and be more relaxed and chatty. But I've had my off days here and there.

For the most part I see most of the people here as friendly and helpful. But, that is my experience as that I spend 98% of my forum time in Betta Care, Emergencies, and the habitat section. I come down to the chat part maybe for a few minutes a week or less even in the past. So my experience is only from a few sub forums and in those I haven't seen a whole lot of rudeness. Just people wanting to help, and sometimes frustration when it seems as if their help isn't being listened to.

I'm sorry you've been feeling this way, especially since you've been around for so long. =(


----------



## bastage (Oct 16, 2011)

Myates said:


> Sometimes I may come off as rude or harsh, but I try to be helpful first off.


I have found you to be particularly helpful.. So Thank you, & Ronon says thank you as well.


----------



## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

TheKingsFish said:


> I agree that the learning curve can be daunting. And no offense to those of you living in the States, but some people giving advice on this forum tend to be a little American-centric in telling people where to look for things instead of checking the nationality of the person seeking advice and asking what they have available. For instance, I live in a small-medium sized city in British Columbia. The nearest Pet Smarts are 2 hours away and 6 hours away...and as far as I know the nearest Petco is 7.5 hours and a border crossing away. In the event of an emergency, some of the things these forums recommend aren't readily accessible--and ordering on-line isn't always a viable option. I know that when someone is unable to find or afford aquarium salt I look before I tell someone in Arkansas that they can find Kosher salt at the Real Canadian Superstore for about a buck; or that Levamisole is banned by the government and is therefore unavailable; and Panacur can only be obtained with a prescription from a vet. (long story)


Yeah....I'm guilty of that. I can't help it if a Pet Smart is 10 minutes away from my job and a Petco is 5 minutes away from my house. It's habbit to think of those stores for emergencies. XD

But yeah, even good advice is useless if the person you give it to can't use it. I know members like the 2.5gallon minimum but I couldn't have 2 2.5 gallon tanks in my dorm room. So I had a very functional 1 gallon set up that kept my fish healthy. Now I have my own place so my fish were up graded to 5 gallons because I can use the cycled tank advice I read about in threads. I think cycled 5 gallon set ups are great, but I know what works for me doesn't work for everyone. 

I think if more people realize one size doesn't fit all (heck, I've had 2 sizes already) then threads wouldn't seem so rude. Unfortunately, when people get passionate, feelings can get hurt.


----------



## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

Myates said:


> So my experience is only from a few sub forums and in those I haven't seen a whole lot of rudeness. Just people wanting to help, and sometimes frustration when it seems as if their help isn't being listened to.


Thats how I feel sometimes. My frustration comes out when someone asks for help with something and completely ignores any advice that doesn't fit with what they want to hear. People don't like being criticized or told they're "doing it wrong". But if they have come for help, its best to at least listen to what is being said.

I haven't seen a lot of people immediately coming down on someone right off the bat, just after its been awhile and its becoming a long discussion.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

TheKingsFish said:


> I agree that the learning curve can be daunting. And no offense to those of you living in the States, but some people giving advice on this forum tend to be a little American-centric in telling people where to look for things instead of checking the nationality of the person seeking advice and asking what they have available.


Yes!  I find it so funny when people tell me something should be readily available in Petco, Petsmart or Walmart. It may well be readily available there, but I'm a 20-hour flight from the nearest of any of those. My chains are Pets' Paradise and Petbarn. Our supermarkets (Woolworths, Coles, Aldi) only sell cat and dog food.



mjoy79 said:


> Thats how I feel sometimes. My frustration comes out when someone asks for help with something and completely ignores any advice that doesn't fit with what they want to hear. People don't like being criticized or told they're "doing it wrong". But if they have come for help, its best to at least listen to what is being said.
> 
> I haven't seen a lot of people immediately coming down on someone right off the bat, just after its been awhile and its becoming a long discussion.


One thing I saw a lot of on Yahoo Answers was new people asking a question and saying they kept their betta in an unheated bowl or somesuch. So many Answerers just came down harsh on them from the beginning and went straight on the attack, so the Asker went on the defensive and didn't take any of the advice. However, when an Answerer was polite, respectful of their situation, sympathetic with the bad advice they'd been given, took time to explain *why* things like heaters are necessary, and provided some links to cheap but good products, then the Asker was much more receptive, grateful and happy, and the fish generally ended up happier too. I think a lot of the time, people need to focus on how they are saying things as well as what they say.


----------



## Banicks (Aug 20, 2011)

I can only comment from a personal stand point. When I joined I read the stickies for the first two days before even sayings anything, when I did say something it wasn't even a question, it was a post to welcome mah new fishy!

Something alot of new members aren't doing is reading stickies, then they get upset when their question is ignored? Generally 9 questions out of 10 are covered by the stickies!


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Not everyone puts their country of origin in their profile so we have no way of knowing. It's easy enough to tell the person that you're not from America. Conversely, as an American, I have no idea where I'd send you, in your country, to get fishy stuff even if I DID know it.


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Like Vaygirl said we don't always know your location and this is why I like to advise on natural treatments...well other than being a naturalist...nearly everything you need is in the kitchen (_sodium chloride_) or bathroom (_magnesium sulfate_) cabinet and out in the yard(_oak leaf_)-granted some people will not have a local Oak tree and the best medication for fish..._Fresh/dechlorinated water from water changes_......natural treatments are much safer for the fish, you and the environment...often people look for a magic bullet or a quick cure and this doesn't happen....everything takes times......


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

+1. Clean warm water will prevent (and in some cases cure) so many illness.  
I'm sorry if people thought I was pointing fingers, because I'm not.  I always keep my location in my profile for that reason, though, because on other forums (even when I have the Australian flag on my profile!) people have suggested PetCo or another inconic US chain. A lot of the time, it happens on Yahoo International, where questions can come from any part of the world but the vast majority of people assume you are a USA dweller. It's not so much that I object to people not being able to prescribe a local shop to visit; I just find it amusing when people just assume I'm from America on international forums.


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Oh no! I wasn't thinking you were pointing fingers. I was just saying, I guess, that we mostly give advice based on our own experiences. Sometimes we go on autopilot, especially if we've given the info before. I didn't mean to imply that you were pointing fingers. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

bastage said:


> I have found you to be particularly helpful.. So Thank you, & Ronon says thank you as well.


Aww thank you! There have been a couple times where I felt bad because I feel I have come off rude sounding, but I chalk it up to being a red head and monthly related issues ;-)

I live about a 2 hour drive from the closest Petsmart/Petco, and I live in the US. Normally I just tell them what is needed and hope that they can find what they need locally. I may link a site online to give them a reference. Only time I send to a specific location is if I know they are in the US and have commented on going to Petco/Petsmart.


----------



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

Banicks said:


> Something alot of new members aren't doing is reading stickies, then they get upset when their question is ignored? Generally 9 questions out of 10 are covered by the stickies!


this +1 .. when i first researched for betta information .. i didn't even register for a good 2-3 months after i found this forum .. i just read the public stickies and infos before i even decided to register .. 



vaygirl said:


> Sometimes we go on autopilot, especially if we've given the info before. I didn't mean to imply that you were pointing fingers.


hehe =D i'm guilty of being on autopilot .. sometimes .. hehe ok most the time .. but it's only cus sometimes we've already typed the same thing so many times already it's like second nature not to think and just type


----------



## ShyDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Just a little shoutout to Vaygirl, OFL, and myates for being some of the most helpful and friendly people on this forum especially to newbs with big ideas and big projects


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

D'aaaw! Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LaLaLeyla (Aug 17, 2011)

I totally agree with you. I'm really starting to get fed up with this forum.
People aren't as helpful anymore.


----------



## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

I've found this forum to be very helpful, particularly when it comes to diagnosing and treating diseases. Sure, there is the occasional rude or insensitive comment, but that is going to happen on any forum. I've gotten a great amount of knowledge and advice from this forum, and everyone was so supportive when my first two males passed away (Thank you everyone for that, especially OldFishLady!). I do get annoyed when certain members take the attitude that they are doing everything absolutely right and anyone else who disagrees is just ignorant and wrong. It's also annoying when forum members gang up on members who express an unpopular opinion, but what can you do? :dunno:


----------



## Bellus Bellator (Oct 9, 2011)

Banicks said:


> I can only comment from a personal stand point. When I joined I read the stickies for the first two days before even sayings anything, when I did say something it wasn't even a question, it was a post to welcome mah new fishy!
> 
> Something alot of new members aren't doing is reading stickies, then they get upset when their question is ignored? Generally 9 questions out of 10 are covered by the stickies!


I am totally guilty of this and have only just finished making my way through them. Defiantly not the best way to introduce yourself but I suppose I came here as a newbie fish owner, I was paniked about my boy (and have been ever since:demented and wasn't thinking. I suppose a lot of people come here because they don't know what they're doing, love their fish and are in a panic.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Not to mention, a lot of the new members are simply new to forums in general. It's all very confusing to find all the right buttons, some people are lucky just to figure out how to post a new thread, let alone understand what 'sticky' means and all that. It gets overwhelming for some!


----------



## Indyfishy (May 31, 2010)

purplemuffin said:


> Not to mention, a lot of the new members are simply new to forums in general. It's all very confusing to find all the right buttons, some people are lucky just to figure out how to post a new thread, let alone understand what 'sticky' means and all that. It gets overwhelming for some!


Very true! Sometimes members that have been on here for awhile get frustrated when new members can't figure out how to post their own threads, or find stickies, or post photos. It's alot more productive when you help a new member figure it out instead of getting frustrated with them.


----------



## Banicks (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm sure that's a possibility, but when the same question is asked 50 times over. Members will begin to ignore the question or just be 'blunt' about the answer to get to the point.

If they can figure out how to post a new thread, they have the ability to read previous threads at the top of the page (not like it's hidden) - it really isn't that difficult. I'm pretty sure it just comes down to laziness 99% of the time.

Sure people panic, but the answers are immediately available in the stickies whereas you will have to wait for someone to respond to a new thread.

Not to mention we have had a lot of trolls lately.


----------



## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I joined this forum to learn more about bettas. I've been ignored a time or two, but I don't let it bother me. I figure I'm new, and people already have relationships with others that have been here awhile.


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm siding with Myates on this one. Most people take my advice and are fine with it. I have even helped people in PM's. But I get frustrated when someone asks for advice, you give it and they ignore you. I don't expect people to take my advice all the time, but at least I'd like to be acknowledged ya know? 95% of the time I am involved with a tiff on the boards, it's an outsider that starts with me. I really don't remember a time I have gotten into a tiff with an actual OP. Those are the people that urk me, the ones who come into the middle of a thread and start attacking someone taking time out of their lives to help another fish owner. Those people I have no time for, and that's when I get nasty  But overall, those on here that know me (and took the time to know me) found out that I am a very nice person who will help anyone anyway that I can. If I could afford shipping, I'd be the type sending people stuff just to save them hassles. I have been on forums for many years, from dogs to rats to tuning import cars to even Mommy boards and now fish. I can honestly say THIS has been the best board of all of them!! 

I too have stopped posting photos and topics, because I have found what works for me with my fish and I really don't want it out there for people to pick at. Nixon is still in a 1.5g tank, but I don't plan on leaving him in there. But others may see it as cruel. I don't do two water changes a week now, I have found my boys to be happier with one big change. I use plastic plants. There are a lot of things I have fell into with fish keeping from trial and error. But I will say that the strict information I have given when I started this forum has gotten me to where I am today. I may have started with some knowledge, owning Bettas before. But this forum has taught me so much.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

HatsuneMiku said:


> hehe =D i'm guilty of being on autopilot .. sometimes .. hehe ok most the time .. but it's only cus sometimes we've already typed the same thing so many times already it's like second nature not to think and just type


Yup.. sometimes I have to go back and type in a welcome or a I'm sorry.. not that I don't care and not sensitive to what people are going through. I just get straight to the point and help as best as I can. Why sometimes I may sound rude or insensitive, it's not intentional, it's that my mind is going to what is needed to be done and not thinking of pleasantries. It's a fault of mine at times, I admit. But I do care about how others are feeling, and do want to help them. Why I spend too much of my time on here lol.



ShyDog said:


> Just a little shoutout to Vaygirl, OFL, and myates for being some of the most helpful and friendly people on this forum especially to newbs with big ideas and big projects


Teehee thanks! I try to help out. If I see others have said everything needed to be said, I'll leave it be. Or if I see someone like OFL already helping, I try to stay out for the most part since she will cover everything. I usually only post if I see someone has missed something, or no one has been able to help yet.



LaLaLeyla said:


> I totally agree with you. I'm really starting to get fed up with this forum.
> People aren't as helpful anymore.


I'm sorry you feel that way. Some people won't respond if they don't know how they can help. But there are a few good people here that are the core "helpers", but unfortunately, most here have lives so can't always be on to help as much.



tpocicat said:


> I joined this forum to learn more about bettas. I've been ignored a time or two, but I don't let it bother me. I figure I'm new, and people already have relationships with others that have been here awhile.


Aww.. it's not that anyone is ignoring you, just if they have nothing to contribute or able to help, they may not post. Sometimes there are a lot of topics being put up in a short time, so other topics are pushed down quickly.
So far I haven't seen any clique here at all, personally. Some are just more chatty then others. If it is a "slow" day in the emergency section, I have more time to check out other parts of this forum, as I spend most of my free time there and the betta care section, I miss out on most of the rest of the forum so I don't get to be as chatty and personable as much as I would like. But I honestly don't think it has anything to do with you being new, as we get new members daily and we welcome them just the same. We will get to know you the more you are around and post and have fun with =) We want to get to know you!



Pitluvs said:


> I'm siding with Myates on this one. Most people take my advice and are fine with it. I have even helped people in PM's. But I get frustrated when someone asks for advice, you give it and they ignore you. I don't expect people to take my advice all the time, but at least I'd like to be acknowledged ya know? 95% of the time I am involved with a tiff on the boards, it's an outsider that starts with me. I really don't remember a time I have gotten into a tiff with an actual OP. Those are the people that urk me, the ones who come into the middle of a thread and start attacking someone taking time out of their lives to help another fish owner. Those people I have no time for, and that's when I get nasty  But overall, those on here that know me (and took the time to know me) found out that I am a very nice person who will help anyone anyway that I can. If I could afford shipping, I'd be the type sending people stuff just to save them hassles. I have been on forums for many years, from dogs to rats to tuning import cars to even Mommy boards and now fish. I can honestly say THIS has been the best board of all of them!!
> 
> I too have stopped posting photos and topics, because I have found what works for me with my fish and I really don't want it out there for people to pick at. Nixon is still in a 1.5g tank, but I don't plan on leaving him in there. But others may see it as cruel. I don't do two water changes a week now, I have found my boys to be happier with one big change. I use plastic plants. There are a lot of things I have fell into with fish keeping from trial and error. But I will say that the strict information I have given when I started this forum has gotten me to where I am today. I may have started with some knowledge, owning Bettas before. But this forum has taught me so much.


=) I don't know how many people I've helped in PMs either lol, it'll start in a thread then I will get a PM. Which I don't mind at all! If I can't help, or I get stuck, I'll ask someone who I know will be able to help more to step in for me, or I'll send the person to them to ask. 
I'm not afraid to tell someone they are wrong if they step in on a thread by another... so they don't tend to irk me as much. I just inform and move on... normally. lol or I'll roll my eyes and have a vent fest with someone through PMs 
You are a very nice person, who cares deeply for your family and animals. You have an edge to you, I'll say that, but it's not a tough edge, and one that is easy to see around to see who you are on the inside. You just don't have time for much BS (which isn't a bad thing!) 

I will share my personal experience with my fish, since everyone does something a little different in their care. I recommend something, but that is because it's a good idea and recommendation- not something set in stone. I'll be more strict if someone doesn't clean out their tanks for a month or so though. Otherwise, I say the general rule, but it doesn't mean it has to be that way or the fish is dead.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I've had members to pm me asking for help. I always feel bad if it's something that I don't know anything about. 
I still think it's the way things are worded. If a person says they have a betta in a half gallon and he's been laying on the bottom and what should they do, don't say "OMG he's gonna DIE in that half gallon! Get him a big tank with a filter and heater NOW!" Try wording things a little nicer.


----------



## TheKingsFish (Jan 8, 2011)

It sounds a little weird out loud (or in type), but sometimes smaller vessels come in handy! When I had a scary high fever last winter my room mate actually managed to cool me down by tucking me under a blanket with a few of our bettas who were suffering from winter with a lack of heat. In the end they felt better and I wasn't far behind. Since that point I have no issues "cuddling" with a fish who is unwell and in quarantine (and perhaps in need of the shallower waters that a small vessel provides).

With that in mind, I agree with DramaQueen (whose advice I HAVE solicited via PM)--wording is everything, and sometimes missing details make things seem worse than they are. The person asking for help may not have the same amount of experience, so descriptions from either end may not completely make sense. You can get a person who means well--and does what they are supposed to--but things get lost in translation. By contrast I am reminded of a thread opened months ago in which an individual was seeking advice about breeding bettas who were unconditioned and not given adequate hiding places in the breeding tank in order to protect the female from the aggression of the male. This person would not heed the advice of the people responding to the thread, and at least three bettas (that I know of) lost their lives as a consequence because all this person cared about (and this was apparent in their responses) was breeding.

Sometimes reading threads like the one started by this individual make me angry, and I know I have to try really really hard to re-read and mind my tone when I reply in this frame of mind. I also realize that there are times when I really must admit that I don't know and recommend the thread to more experienced individuals (OFL, DQ, Mr.Vamp. et al), or encourage the Newbie to PM these people on their own.

BTW...a newbie has a question and may need help.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=889578#post889578


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Like OFL, I'm very sorry that you've been made to feel as if you are an inadequate betta owner. Although I'm just rehashing what everyone else has said, in an open forum like this, you'll definitely get lots and lots of differing opinions and some of them will be very forcefully put forth. Although it is very overwhelming, it's up to you to ultimately decide who to listen to. 

I wish you the best of luck with your fish and your future sorority and I hope that you will continue to come to this forum when you need help.


----------



## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

People are just passionate about pets. I for instance see no problem with the betta vases that have a peace lilly or what not growing in them and no heater so long as its in a home that's constantly kept around 72 degrees, fed, and water changed with the air gap, but much of the betta owning populations considers those pretty despicable. Also this forum is very good about keeping it kids friendly, I almost wish they had a section of it set off for those of age to talk about the more morbid side of keeping/raising these fish.


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Actually, Brian, 72 degrees room temperature means that the water is around about 70F. Bettas are high-end tropical fish and need temperatures between 78 and 82 to stay healthy. Temperatures under 76 are freezing for a betta and can severely depress their immune systems, making them more susceptible to disease. They also find it more difficult to recover when cold. 

The other problem with the peace lilly vase is that sadly, people fail to provide the care you are describing.  The most common myths around the vase are:
- the betta will live off the plant roots so you don't need to feed it
- the plant will clean the water so you don't need to change it
Sadly, people buy into these and, although a decently sized vase with a heater and some live plants could provide a nice home for a betta with proper care, it is often not provided. Makes me sad.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I agree that people sometimes come off as being rude because of their passion for fish. To those who say this forum isn't very friendly, I'm sorry you feel that way. We want this forum to be a place where people can come for good advice, FRIENDLY advice. I think we need to be a little more patient with newbies. If we aren't very nice to new members then they won't want to come back.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Brian10962001 said:


> People are just passionate about pets. I for instance see no problem with the betta vases that have a peace lilly or what not growing in them and no heater so long as its in a home that's constantly kept around 72 degrees, fed, and water changed with the air gap, but much of the betta owning populations considers those pretty despicable. Also this forum is very good about keeping it kids friendly, I almost wish they had a section of it set off for those of age to talk about the more morbid side of keeping/raising these fish.


Only thing I have to say in response to this is.. read below 



Bombalurina said:


> Actually, Brian, 72 degrees room temperature means that the water is around about 70F. Bettas are high-end tropical fish and need temperatures between 78 and 82 to stay healthy. Temperatures under 76 are freezing for a betta and can severely depress their immune systems, making them more susceptible to disease. They also find it more difficult to recover when cold.
> 
> The other problem with the peace lilly vase is that sadly, people fail to provide the care you are describing.  The most common myths around the vase are:
> - the betta will live off the plant roots so you don't need to feed it
> ...


I'm not an elitist, but those smaller vases with the peace lilly in them are something that irks me.


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

This place is alot more mellow then some other pet forums I have been on.
I got banned from an American Eskimo Dog Forum because I posted pictures of the haircut and dye job that my boyfriend gave my dog when I was visiting family. They claimed the dog was abused and it was a traumatic experience for him and they were gonna called the ASPCA..blah blah blah. All cause my dog was given a full body mohawk that was dyed with food color by a groomer. 

Then there is a chinchilla forum where i got into a massive fight with several members. I live in Alaska. The current temp RIGHT NOW is -25F. Needless to say, I do NOT have an Air Conditioner. Very few places are air conditioned here and they are not easy to buy either. This summer, it got up into the 90's for a few days and my apartment was like an oven. I ask about ways to keep it cooler for the chinchilla because they do not do well with high temps. People went ballistic because I did not have AC, and because I couldn't spend $500 or more on the huge ones they do sell here (the ones that can cool an entire house) and because I couldn't take the chinchilla to a hotel with AC (keep in mind this was memorial day weekend and the cheapest room was $250 a night). I think the only place that has AC is walmart anyways. 
They just couldnt get it into their pea brained sized head that living here is not like living in NY or CA. The nearest city is 400 miles south :evil:


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh you could be on my former rat forum, they sent a person to someones house to pick up a rat that needed a home just so the member could spy on the house. Then, because they cages were not immaculate spotless clean (there was poop in the cage) the whole forum started calling the woman's local SPCA and put in 100 reports of her being a Puppy Mill so the SPCA would SWAT Team her home and remove all her pets. The woman had two dogs, a lab mix and a husky, both males. Poor woman gave me a tour of her home on webcam, although it wasn't a spotless house, it was far from any type of abuse. The woman JUST took in 23 rats off the street and was needing help and homes. They tore her to shreds.

Oh and the best part? The Mods had a part of the forum no one could see unless they had access and they had posts up there about every normal member, making fun of them and saying things like "If she was my daughter, I would have beat her to death long ago" and things like that. Actually, the ADMIN was the one who said that comment. One of the mods came to me and sent me screen shots of it all. They were making comments about everyone, and the saddest part is, one of the guilty ones is a rat hoarder that won't let anyone in her home. 

Although I get frustrated a lot, this forum is by far so much better than any I have been on. I just hope the mods don't have a secret forum they talk about us on here hahaha *eye balls DQ*


----------



## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I agree, this forum is alot nicer than quite a few other forums.
I got in a fight in a mouse forum because I ran out of aspen bedding once and had to buy pine, I know pine if bad and she only had it for a few weeks.
Then much later my mouse started to scratch herself to the point were she had no skin on her back and no ears. I tried to get a vet recommendation from them and they called me a horrible owner, and it was my fault she was like that because she lived alone (females are supposed to live in groups, but her sister died a few months before and she did not accept other mice). They ended up banning me. :/

I love this betta forum. Sometimes you do get into a little argument but it always seems to get resolved and everyone gets past it. And most people on here are reasonable, they do not make you feel like a horrible owner just because you accidently bought the wrong food or something.
This is the only forum where people on here feel like friends and not people you just have to prove yourself to.


----------



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> I agree that people sometimes come off as being rude because of their passion for fish. To those who say this forum isn't very friendly, I'm sorry you feel that way. We want this forum to be a place where people can come for good advice, FRIENDLY advice. I think we need to be a little more patient with newbies. If we aren't very nice to new members then they won't want to come back.


i think this shouldn't just apply to treatment for new members .. it should be in effect to all members .. new and old .. regardless how how long they been on this forum .. or regardless of how long they've been in this hobby .. it comes down to being nice, friendly, patient, and courteous to everyone and treating people how you would like to be treated .. sometimes people can let their guard down since this is a forum and you don't get to see people face to face .. but everyone must remember there is a real live person your talking to .. even if you don't see them .. words do hurt .. regardless if you see the person's face or not


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> Oh you could be on my former rat forum, they sent a person to someones house to pick up a rat that needed a home just so the member could spy on the house. Then, because they cages were not immaculate spotless clean (there was poop in the cage) the whole forum started calling the woman's local SPCA and put in 100 reports of her being a Puppy Mill so the SPCA would SWAT Team her home and remove all her pets. The woman had two dogs, a lab mix and a husky, both males. Poor woman gave me a tour of her home on webcam, although it wasn't a spotless house, it was far from any type of abuse. The woman JUST took in 23 rats off the street and was needing help and homes. They tore her to shreds.


That's why I'm kind of wary about joining a rat forum. I have no doubt someone would insist that choosing lino instead of a nestable bedding is cruel, that I should be using Baytril instead of just doxy, and that I'm a bad person because lab blocks aren't available here, so I've had to make up my own dry mix. 

On the plus side, there is going to be a rat picnic in the city park this Sunday, so I will get to meet other real-life rat lovers, not just internet ones!  And, of course, their gorgeous rats. ;-) My breeders are going too, so it should be a heap of fun!


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Pitluvs said:


> Oh you could be on my former rat forum, they sent a person to someones house to pick up a rat that needed a home just so the member could spy on the house. Then, because they cages were not immaculate spotless clean (there was poop in the cage) the whole forum started calling the woman's local SPCA and put in 100 reports of her being a Puppy Mill so the SPCA would SWAT Team her home and remove all her pets. The woman had two dogs, a lab mix and a husky, both males. Poor woman gave me a tour of her home on webcam, although it wasn't a spotless house, it was far from any type of abuse. The woman JUST took in 23 rats off the street and was needing help and homes. They tore her to shreds.
> 
> Oh and the best part? The Mods had a part of the forum no one could see unless they had access and they had posts up there about every normal member, making fun of them and saying things like "If she was my daughter, I would have beat her to death long ago" and things like that. Actually, the ADMIN was the one who said that comment. One of the mods came to me and sent me screen shots of it all. They were making comments about everyone, and the saddest part is, one of the guilty ones is a rat hoarder that won't let anyone in her home.
> 
> Although I get frustrated a lot, this forum is by far so much better than any I have been on. I just hope the mods don't have a secret forum they talk about us on here hahaha *eye balls DQ*


lol! Uh, we do have a moderators' forum where we can discuss problems and ways to keep the forum running smoothly.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

HatsuneMiku said:


> i think this shouldn't just apply to treatment for new members .. it should be in effect to all members .. new and old .. regardless how how long they been on this forum .. or regardless of how long they've been in this hobby .. it comes down to being nice, friendly, patient, and courteous to everyone and treating people how you would like to be treated .. sometimes people can let their guard down since this is a forum and you don't get to see people face to face .. but everyone must remember there is a real live person your talking to .. even if you don't see them .. words do hurt .. regardless if you see the person's face or not


Well, yeah, it applies to everyone. We want this forum to be friendly and helpful and not seen as a bunch of rude and hateful people.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

And for the most part, this forum is friendly. Yes, once or twice I've cried because of stuff that went on in the forum but the mods got it settled and anyway, I cry easily. Not just from hurt feelings. I just . . . cry easily (cried during a Pokemon movie, if that says anything). So it all evens out. I just hope that everyone remembers two of the golden rules of social interaction:
If you can't saything anything nice, don't say nothin' at all. (Had to quote it Thumper style from Bambi. ;-) )
and
Treat others as you wish to be treated. 
If we all remember that, this forum will be the friendliest around. 

It helps to take a deep breath and remember when you were a newbie before replying to any post that may potentially be controversial (ie, someone writing about keeping their betta in a 1g tank etc). Remember how welcome you were made and make the effort to return the favor to all new people.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

It's a very friendly forum, it just seems like the biggest problem is people jumping the gun and assuming something is more negative than it is and then a lot of (generally) newer users joining in with good intentions also stating the same problem but usually a little less tactfully until sometimes things start to look like a hate fest! Then the mods help deal with it, which is nice, but it can frighten new users off, but that's just a side effect of..well, being a forum, lol! I've seen way worse. For reptile people..man, never visit a monitor lizard forum. They are tough and even sometimes consider themselves elitists anyway hahahaha, it's bizarre.


----------



## SnowySurface (Apr 25, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> And for the most part, this forum is friendly. Yes, once or twice I've cried because of stuff that went on in the forum but the mods got it settled and anyway, I cry easily. Not just from hurt feelings. I just . . . cry easily (cried during a Pokemon movie, if that says anything). So it all evens out. I just hope that everyone remembers two of the golden rules of social interaction:
> If you can't saything anything nice, don't say nothin' at all. (Had to quote it Thumper style from Bambi. ;-) )
> and
> Treat others as you wish to be treated.
> ...


I actually like that example. I used a 1 gallon set up for all of my fish. Most of them lived for about 2-3 years (as apposed to the ideal 5 ^_^ but I think that is also contributed to dorm life, and traveling back and forwards between dorm and home, and poor water change schedule. I was such a noob to this 6 years ago. XD 

Sometimes 2 gallon tanks just don't fit in someone's dorm or office. I can have 5 gallon cycled set ups now because I have an entire apartment to myself. So instead of bashing someone for not having a 5 gallon cycled tank for one fish, I just give them tips on how to take care of a 1 gallon tank properly. Even if the person is using the 1/2 gallon set up for 2 fish I just explain that he or she is falling for a myth and give a brief run down about why those betta kits are harmful. The poster doesn't feel attacked for having a small tank or inapropriate tank and the fish gets proper care. It's win-win.


----------



## mjoy79 (Jul 13, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> And for the most part, this forum is friendly. Yes, once or twice I've cried because of stuff that went on in the forum but the mods got it settled and anyway, I cry easily. Not just from hurt feelings. I just . . . cry easily (cried during a Pokemon movie, if that says anything). So it all evens out. I just hope that everyone remembers two of the golden rules of social interaction:
> If you can't saything anything nice, don't say nothin' at all. (Had to quote it Thumper style from Bambi. ;-) )
> and
> Treat others as you wish to be treated.
> ...


Don't feel bad. I cry at the drop of a hat too. I cried for 2 days when my Chandler died. Thanks for the reminder on what it was like when we first were a newbie too. Its easy to forget sometimes!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

mjoy, aww, glad I'm not the only one who cries easily. 

Snowy, I like your approach.  

And also, I just remembered sometimes there are cultural and language barriers to overcome.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I wish I was nicer sometimes  I'm re-evaluating some things in life, so haven't done a ton of posting in the help forums lately, but have been when PM'd and asked.

This is the only forum I go to.. I tried others for a day or two.. but I just keep coming back to this one. 

As far as the rats.. I would of been hated in that forum 
About 8 years ago I was asked by my ex to take in 2 of their rats- Kitkat and Mira. Loved those girls, they were allowed to roam free at times, but never went too far, would run back to me if they got startled by anything. Was too cute. Then one day at a Petsmart looking for goodies for them (I tend to spoil my pets to no ends), an employee asked if I could take on some more- someone had dumped 12 off at the store and took off. From albino, hairless, dumbo and pure black ones.. all girls. Didn't have a lot of money, but took them in. Between 14 rats me and my boyfriend had a 20 gallon long tank, a 3 tiered 5 foot wired hand made cage, a 29 gallon tank. All were cleaned 3-4 times a week, fed regularly, each played and handled with daily for hours on end- even took them in turn to play D&D at a local bookstore lol. If we had more money at the time, I would of gotten them better cages, etc.. but was pregnant and couldn't spend all that much. But they were healthy and happy and spoiled nonetheless. One happened to of been pregnant when we got her too, but she only had one male baby who after he was weaned he was placed in his own cage to become adjusted to being held and socialized at an early age.
I could of said no.. but they were all too cute, very sweet and was told they would be killed if they couldn't find anyone that day to take them home since they had no idea about where they came from. So.. I gave them the best I could until I was able to adopt them all out.  
My boyfriend got yelled at in a labrador forum because he feeds our lab mix Blue Buffalo instead of meat from a butcher. >.<


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I was actually thinking of switching my cat to Blue Buffalo, they are selling it here now  She is eating Taste of the Wild, but it's not agreeing with her. I personally, would never feed raw meat. 

Yes, the rat forum was horrible. If you didn't feed rat blocks, owned a Critter Nation or Ferret Nation cage and didn't give the meds they insist on, you were shunned BADLY. Heaven forbid there was a rat needing a home and you didn't take them in, you were heartless. I had 12 rats because I was the only one on the board from my area, and they made me feel like crud if I didn't take them all. I ended up leaving after 3 years of being on there  This forum is soooo nice compared to that.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

O.O I'm never going to another forum. You guys are scaring me. The other forums you talk about are scaring me. O.O


----------



## Jodah (Nov 15, 2011)

it's the one liners, without providing valid reasons that tick me off. I try not to be rude, but we're reading text, even a wide smiley may not show the intended expression of the post.


----------

