# Nippy Oto? (probably a stupid question)



## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

So a few weeks ago I found myself with an Oto and a male Betta sharing a planted five-gallon, because I did a stupid and listened to the pet store lady, and because the algae is getting ridiculous. I'm aware it's a bit crowded, I'm looking into possibly getting a 10-gallon, but it's going to be a while because of fund and room issues. 
At first, my betta didn't seem to like him at all; would flare and chase him every time he moved, but never seemed to actually catch him much, and when he did, never seemed to connect or bite, so I left them to sort themselves out. Now they look to have settled into a sort of mutually antagonistic, somewhat peaceful cohabitation; The betta only chases the Oto about half the time, now. I think it's because the Oto is getting to be about his size.
My only question is this, twice now I've seen the Oto chase and try to feed off the betta's fins. Is he nipping? Can Otos even nip or is he just being irritating back to the betta for chasing him off the big algae patch on the log again? or is my tank just that saturated in algae that my betta is starting to grow it on his fins? (I've been changing the water weekly, I cut the photoperiod, I've been pulling a lot out, it's not a dirty tank, it's just ridiculous algae.)
My betta is getting some raged ends on two of his fins. I know it's not the filter this time, because it's set to barely a trickle, and there's no signs of fin rot that I can see, no grey or black or white, just a little clear new growth, so I'm thinking either he's stressed and biting his own fins or he's blowing his fins working himself up over the Oto.

My biggest problem is, if I absolutely cannot keep the Oto in there for whatever reason, I don't really have anywhere else to put him. I'm working on finding the time and money to throw into a larger tank, but it's not really something I can put on priority right now. I don't have any friends with tanks who could take him, and I'm hesitant about asking a pet store to take him; I've gotten kinda fond of the little guy.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

You might not have an otocinclus. You might have a chinese algae eater. Google photos of both and let us know which you have. Chinese algae eaters are known for chewing on other fish :shock:


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

I want to say he's an Oto. He's got the long solid stripe down the side from his nose to a black spot on his tail, and he looks more Oto-shaped. I really hope he's not a Chinese Algae Eater...those get huge, right?
I really wish I could get a good picture of him, but of course as soon as I go for my phone he decides he really must go and eat the algae behind the log.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)




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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

The first 2 are chinese, the second 2 are otos. 
Chinese are browner and more energetic. 
Otos are darker and cuter.


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## peachii (Jan 6, 2013)

Otos are also tiny - if it is getting closer to over 2 inches I'd bet it wasn't an oto. I had crazy Algae in my tank, i've had Otos now for about 2 months, my tank sparkles now and I swear the only thing that has grown on them is their belly. My otos wouldn't dream of going near another fish except when they are having skitzo moments and think they are a corydory, and school with them. (cutest damn thing ever!!)

It is what it is, you could just let them continue to work it out and provide more hiding spots (plants, caves, etc) There are some really cheap options to things. 

28 cent tiny clay pots from Wal-Mart. 
29 cent tubing plastic coupling pieces from a hardware store
2.00 - 2 to 5 inch piece of tubing glued together for a "house" type thing
2.50 Craft mesh cloth stitched, glued, or burned together into a tube and attached to the top of the water, right under.

I'm sure there are other economical options for hiding spots, as pretty much anything can be used.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

He's definitely an oto. He looks almost exactly like the last picture there. 
I'll see about adding a few more hiding spots then, and letting them work themselves out.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

It could well be stress-related. Otos are schooling fish and are much happier in groups of 5+. Obviously, you don't have the room for that yet, but try densely planting the tank to help balance out bioload issues and get two more otos. It's a totally not ideal stop-gap, but it may help.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm not sure about adding more fish; when I say that a larger tank won't be in the cards for a while, I mean the absolute earliest that it could possibly happen would be late october, and more likely early december; when my semester break and my off-season coincide. Before that, it's going to be a nonstop barrage of work and classwork, and I'll be lucky to get my normal tank maintenance done. I'm also worried about overstressing my betta; he's a grumpy little nerd as it is, and he's not particularly fond of his current roommate.

on a side note, I _knew_ that lady was wrong. She assured me that it was the cories that schooled and the Otos would be fine as a solitary fish.


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## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

I have heard of otos that will try to suck off the slime coat of other fish. It's unusual, but it does happen. They do it for the same reason that some fry do- it's a source of protein and aufwuchs. My immediate thought is that your oto is not getting enough to eat. What type of algae do you have in the tank? There are some types that otos won't touch. Do you supplement its diet at least once a week? If not, try a piece of blanched zucchini or Repashy Super Green- he hopefully will choose the zucchini over your betta. How does your otos belly look? It should be nice and plumply rounded. If it looks caved in, he's going hungryy.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

I had been supplementing with some veggie rounds (algae wafers I guess?) but he didn't seem to be eating them, and then I missed a water change and the algae in the tank exploded so I haven't been giving him any for the last couple weeks while I tried to find the time to take care of that. Right now my biggest problems in the tank are brown algae on the plants, and an enormous amount of green stringy/cloudy/clingy bits taking over a portion of the wall and most of the driftwood, I've scraped some of that off now, though. 
He's currently hiding so I couldn't tell you if he's looking skinny, but I can tell you he's put on a couple millimeters of length since I got him, he was about 3/4in when I got him, now he's a little over an inch


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## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

He won't eat the hair algae, but the brown diatoms should be providing him with plenty of food. Veggie rounds (if they are the Omega Ones I'm thinking of) have meat protein and are no good for otos- their bodies are not meant to process this type of protein. They have the long intestines of obligate herbivores- meat (insect, seafood, etc) can rot in their bodies by the time it is passed- this is why carnivores have shorter intestines.

Try some blanched zucchini- hang it or clip it to the tank walls. Don't be surprised if it takes him awhile to get to it. It usually takes a day before otos start eating the zucchini. Spinach is good, too. If you want to try commercial foods, try Repashy's Super Green (my otos adore this stuff!) or there's a Nutrafin spirulina tablet that's vegan as well.

I think if you try supplementing his diet, he just might leave off your betta's fins. Maybe he gets bored of the same old meal- _oh, diatoms again <sigh>... Hey look, there's a yummy betta!_


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I am a wee bit confused. A 50% water change on that small of a tank takes me 3-10 minutes total. I work more then full time and have two kids (4&8)100% of the time yet I can do weekly changes on 9-10 tanks which only takes me a portion of one weekend afternoon. I am sure if you get organized you can actually find 10 minutes per week to devote to tank cleaning. I think your algea is a result of perams that are off due to not taking care of the tank. Take a little time and asses your time and organize. I've been to college...I know how demanding it is. however 10 can be found I promise.
Also make sure your oto is eating. Feed him weekly to suplement the algea to avoid a hungry kid nipping at his roomie looking for food


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

They are the omega ones. That explains why my betta keeps nibbling at the darn things. That also explains why the oto's been hanging around the clean side of the tank when there was a huge amount of algae on the other side. I'll look into clearing that up more thoroughly then. I'll look into the commercial foods and give him a bit of zucchini till then. I read somewhere that oto's will also eat dead bits of aquarium plants, but I'm pretty done trusting my sources and about one more bit of wrong oto info away from flipping a table, so could someone confirm that?


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry, I missed your post, agent, we must've posted at the same time. It's not so much I lack the time as I do the energy I guess? I work at a theme park summers and we're constantly short handed, so those of us who actually know what we're doing end up working 6-7 days a week, with 6-9 hour shifts that can go to 12 hours if its busy. When I get home I usually have enough cognitive ability that I can just about manage not to brain myself on the front door. I normally do the weekly water change on my day off, but it's not always every seven days, so occasionally I miss a week here or there. I'd get my family to help on the weeks I can't, but honestly I trust their competence with fish slightly less than the average housecat. 

The thing I was talking about needing to wait until December is the larger tank I've been considering, because that'll take a lot more time and effort than I can expend during the summer or during a normal week of classes. Just setting up the little five gallon took me two weeks of gathering components and a day and a half of setup. Getting enough plants and the right supplies would take me ages, not even taking into account the fish, I'd definitely need to put that off until I can devote a few solid days of focus to it without having to worry about class or work. 

I know my params are off because of missing a water change, it's usually only a day or two after I miss it before the algae explodes again. I'm working on getting on something vaguely resembling a schedule with the maintenance so I can stop missing weeks, but I haven't got much hope until I can find something a little steadier.

This probably came off snippy... Sorry about that. Its not meant that way. I've really got to stop posting this late.


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## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I must be snippy proof lol. I didn't think it was snippy  
I know what you mean though...I have been so tired that I've had to pour out water over and over again because I couldn't remember if I had treated the water! Ughhh


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## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

Esahc said:


> They are the omega ones. That explains why my betta keeps nibbling at the darn things.


My betta likes them, too. In fact, that's a veggie round in my avatar picture that my VT is trying to schmooze in on. 



Esahc said:


> I read somewhere that oto's will also eat dead bits of aquarium plants, but I'm pretty done trusting my sources and about one more bit of wrong oto info away from flipping a table, so could someone confirm that?


My otos have never eaten dead plant bits, and I have never heard of them doing so. There does seem to be a lot of misinformation on these little guys. They are touted as algae eaters, but the types of algae they will eat is pretty limited.

With the zucchini, I slice a whole one up and put the pieces uncooked in the freezer. Then, you can just take a slice out, thaw it in warm water and put it in the tank- the freezing softens the zucchini so you don't have to blanch it.

With the algae- have you tried adjusting your lighting?


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

okay so no on the dead plant bits, I'll pull those out when I clean the tank tomorrow. gonna give the walls and the driftwood a good scrubbing; pull out all the algae I can get, and cut the lighting again I guess
right now it's got two lamps on timers; one daylight spectrum 13w(i think?) CFL bulb directly on the tank, definately what the algae likes because it's ONLY on that side of the tank. that's on for I think 8/8.5 hours, and one nighttime lamp, a dark green bulb facing away from the tank, on overnight and overlapping with the daylight bulb, about an hour in each direction. I'm thinking of changing the overnight bulb to something else though, it's a bit bright, and honestly, a bit creepy. 

As for the Oto, I'll get him on some veggies and stuff, since it looks like he has, indeed, cleared up the brown algae I bought him for, and it's not his fault I didn't know he wouldn't touch the hair stuff. 


One last thing though, and I'm asking for brutal honesty here. There's probably no chance of me getting a big enough tank to give him a school for months yet, and my betta does seem stressed even if they seem to be working things out. Aside from petco and petsmart, there's one LFS with some gorgeous tanks, and they really seem to know their stuff, though they're predominately saltwater(and one of the girls did try and tell me a 5gal was too much space for a betta).
Would my oto be happier/healthier if I went to see if they could take him and maybe find him a better home, or should I just keep on trying to give him the best home I can with what I've got? I'm going to see tomorrow if they have any more plants for my tank to hopefully crowd out the algae, while I'm there, should I ask them about their policy on taking fish that aren't doing well?


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## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

Do you use ferts for your plants? Many assume that using ferts when one has algae is a bad thing because you just end up feeding the algae. But in many cases, the opposite is true. With added ferts, the plants are able to grow better and they can out-compete the algae, thus starving it of nutrients. Adding more plants is a good idea, too.

Is there any way you can center the CFL over the tank, so all the light isn't concentrated on one side?

Honestly, if you're not going to be able to get more otos, then I think he would be happier if you brought him back and gave him a chance to live with more of his own. Though I can't verify it, I have read of otos supposedly dying of loneliness. And if he's still stressing your betta then a better home for him might be better for all concerned... 

Have you looked into Amano shrimp? You could have one in the 5g with your betta. They don't need to be in groups and they aren't as zippy as otos, so much less likely to stress your betta. They get big enough (about 2 inches) that many bettas won't consider them as food. Best of all, they eat hair algae. My 20 was infested with the stuff- I put 4 Amanos in the tank and they went to town on an eating binge.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Talked to my LFS guy, and he said they could take the oto, which I guess will be best for everyone involved. Gonna miss the little derp though. I decided against the amanos because Altair is an aggressive little idiot, and I really don't trust him not to attempt to eat them. The LFS guy did suggest some little....I forget what they are, but they're pretty, like greygreen with iridescent green bits and not sucker fish, and he said they'd graze on the hair algae, but they're also schooling fish, and need 3+, so no room in a 5gal. I'll keep them in mind for if I upgrade to a 10+gal though, they were pretty. 

The guy sold me some Florish excel too, so I'm going to try going the lighting and fertilizer route for a bit to see if that doesn't help my problem. 
I'll be going back and bringing the oto later today.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, I dropped off the Oto and I feel much better about it now; they don't actually sell them there often, but they keep a small school of them in the plant tank, which is a HUGE i don't even know how many gallons monstrosity of a thing with a lot of gorgeous plants and brown diatoms to keep him busy. I think he'll be much happier there than being roomies with a grumpy-butt betta that won't stop headbutting him.


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## Nicci Lu (Jan 7, 2013)

It's kinda of sad to let him go, but I'm sure he'll be much happier.

Your betta sounds like a real character.


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