# Ammonia in tap water - how much Prime is safe



## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I just got the API Ammonia test kit on Friday and was shocked to see the reading from my 2.5 gal, filtered tank was around 2. I've been doing 50%-60% PWC every 2 - 3 days, so I expected a better result. As a control, I tested my tap water and it showed an ammonia level of about .5. That seems alarming, since I read that a water change should be done any time the tank reads over .25. I keep a bucket of treated water on hand for changes, so I tested the treated water. (I had been using Stress Coat as my water conditioner, but on Friday I switched to Prime.) It still read close to .5. I added a second dose of Prime to the bucket, at 2 drops per gallon, to test the ammonia again. The reading was slightly improved, but still not below .25. I took a small cup (about 6 oz) of the treated water, added 2 drops of Prime, and tested again, and got close to .25. The test kit is has an expiration date of 2018, and the Prime bottle was new and sealed when I got it Friday. I live in a large city where the water comes from reservoir lakes and is treated, measured, etc. According to the city, our water is neither hard nor soft. 

I'd love your opinions on my water chemistry, and what I should do to keep the tank safe for my Betta. Why does my tap water show such a high ammonia level? Could there be a problem with my testing kit? If the test is not flawed, how much Prime is safe to add to my tank? I've read the standard is 2 drops per gallon, but according to my tests, it isn't making much of a difference. I certainly don't want to panic and add too much chemical to his water. BTW, Axl is active and seems to me to be in good health. We almost lost him in December, and he made a very fast recovery, but that story is for another thread.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Prime can be safely dosed to 5x the normal amount. However, the reason you are still seeing ammonia on your test is because though the prime made it safe, the ammonia is still there, just locked up in a different molecule. It trips the test but is safe for the fish.

When people have ammonia in their tap water I recommend using prime and cycling the tank (I recommend that for everyone, but it's especially important when the source water is dangerous). The prime will keep the water safe for 24-48 hours after a water change, while the biological filtration has time to neutralize the ammonia.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

MattsBettas said:


> Prime can be safely dosed to 5x the normal amount. However, the reason you are still seeing ammonia on your test is because though the prime made it safe, the ammonia is still there, just locked up in a different molecule. It trips the test but is safe for the fish.


Thank you. Now I understand why my test results didn't change. I'm glad to know that the Prime will keep the water safe for my fish. For now, does it make sense to continue with 50% PWC every 2 days, and add 5 drops (2/gal) of Prime directly into the tank on the days between water changes? (I forgot to mention, I use a siphon every time. It keeps the gravel pretty and is easier to do than using a cup. Plus, I read that ammonia sinks, so I am removing the more ammonia-dense water. Correct me if this is ill-advised.)

I would LOVE to get my tank cycled. I've been reading the threads here on cycling and filters, and I am beginning to understand. I got my tank in December, when I started reading this forum. It is an Aqueon 2.5 gal Minibow (no divider). I've been using the filter (power filter?) that it came with, which hangs inside the tank. It has a carbon pack across the top of it. I guess my tank will never cycle with this type of filter, or it would have been cycled by now. The more I read about sponge filters, the more confused I get. I see you have to get an air pump and figure out where to put it. Maybe some pictures of how they work in practice would help, because I don't understand from the descriptions of the products. Even after reading some of the sponge filter threads here, I am not sure what all I need for my little tank, or (more importantly) how to put it together.

Would something like this http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-Elite-Underwater-Filter-Listed/dp/B0009YD7D4/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t work without having to rig up a sponge filter/pump system? Do you think its "foam filter insert" would be adequate enough to cycle my tank? (Tank has 1 Betta only. I don't plan to use live plants, as I have 2 black thumbs.)


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## Rana (Apr 27, 2013)

How long have you had that tank? I have the same one for my mom's betta and we got it to cycle. I did cheat and use Tetra SafeStart, but before I left for school and left it in her care it had been giving steady readings for nearly six months. So it can be done, if you're not replacing the filter pads (The filter companies just want your money when they say to replace every month).


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I bought the tank on December 11 and put the fish in it that day, so it's been in use for over 9 weeks now. I have never replaced the filter pad. Thanks to posts on this forum, I learned that replacing the pad would prevent cycling. I do swish it in old tank water every two weeks or so. It looks nice and dirty now, but the grime is concentrated on one area of the pad. I was thinking that the carbon in the pad may be preventing enough of a good colony to start the cycle. I haven't tried SafeStart or similar item. I'm thinking I should replace the filter first (to more easily sustain the cycle) and then I'll get SS and see if I can jump start this thing. 

Or, do you think replacing that carbon pad with some filter sponge, cut to size, would do the trick? That filter doesn't take up too much swimming space, and the current seems to be fairly gentle. He can swim with no trouble, hover motionless beside the intake, and he seems to enjoy chasing his pellets when the current sweeps them away (like catching live bugs). The only problem I have with the filter is that it isn't a sponge filter.


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## Rana (Apr 27, 2013)

Hmm, it's odd that a tank hasn't cycled in nine weeks. Can you bring some water to a pet store and have them test it? (Ask for the specific numbers, not just if it's "okay" or "fine") It might be your test kit giving weird results.

As far as I know carbon won't stop a cycle, and it gets used up after a few weeks anyway. I did have the same problem with the filter only really hitting one area of the pad, it really is a big design flaw. I think replacing it with a sponge would be a great idea, or I'm pretty sure you can remove the entire filter from the frame altogether. I don't know much about the filter that you linked in your last reply, but I might be able to help answer your questions about sponge filters if you're interested in them.

If you decide to use TSS, a word of advice: Prime will mess with the solution rendering it useless, so you'll want to wait a day after your last water change to add it, and a few days before your next. I'm not sure if it's a Tetra-specific problem, so I always advise waiting a day before adding any cycle product to be safe.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

How sponge filters work:










The smaller tube is connected to the air pump.

There's not really anything special about them, they just provide a simple habitat for nitrifying bacteria.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Rana, I'll ask the pet stores if they do water tests. I have a PetCo, a PetSmart, and an independent LPS all in my part of town. I still find it hard to believe that my city water is .5 ammonia. Wouldn't that smell, or burn, or something? I'll ask them for numbers on nitrites and nitrates, too. I do have a nitrate test kit. I figured that if I saw a rise in nitrates, I could assume cycling had occurred. So far, I have not seen a measurable amount on that test at all. 

Maybe a Fluval sponge pad could be cut to fit on the filter? My hesitation is that it may be too thick to sit there and have the water flow over/through it. I wouldn't know how to cut it down to reduce the thickness of it. Any ideas for thinner sponges or pads that would fit?

Kittenfish, thanks for the diagram. I see that the advantage of this design is how it maximizes the surface area of the sponge, so that more BB can grow in the tank. The disadvantage to using a sponge on my existing filter is that it is pretty much 2 dimensional and sits just above the water level. It doesn't really dry out, but it doesn't encourage lots of growth there, either. Maybe I should start a new thread specifically about sponge filters in a 2.5 gal tank. I'm not too mechanical, so trying to figure out all the connections w/out specific instructions makes me nervous.

Rana, thanks for the tip about TSS. I will remember that. Hopefully I can figure out my ammonia readings, what to do about my filter, and then I will get a bottle and try to start the cycle.


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

My tap water had 1 ppm ammonia last time I checked, plus a good amount of nitrates. I use a double dose of Prime with each water change and my plants and bacteria quickly take care of it.


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## RainbowsHaven (Aug 28, 2013)

JessiesGill, don't stress about it too much, my tap water also has a very high ammonia content. When I first started doing water tests, I couldn't figure out how my little fish was producing .25-.5ppm ammonia in 1-3 days! I was even more shocked when I tested the tap water and found out that was the issue. ( I even tested bottled water to ensure my kit was good at the time ) Water from other areas has always made me sick, so I always assumed my local water was "good" water. ( I always get nauseated from the water when I travel to other states ) I guess not so much for my fish, though!

I was thrilled when I tested my tank water a few weeks ago and it had NO ammonia. The tank actually cycled with little help from me, I was in training at my job on a day shift for two months and wasn't as attentive to Gallifrey as I could have been. During that time, with slightly infrequent water changes, the tank cycled and is now producing 0 ppm ammonia water. 

That being said, don't stress about it too much--and if you're worried about your kit, like I was, test it with some bottled or distilled water. As long as the bottle is fresh, the kit should test it at 0 ppm. 

I worried initially that the ammonia would harm Gallifrey, but seems like it has never effected him. I actually bought Seachem Prime specifically due to the tap water and it's done a wonderful job keeping him safe.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Only Tetra claims that Prime (or other ammonia-locking conditioners) inhibits Safestart. From the many TSS users that I've monitored over the years, this is incorrect. Seachem, makers of Prime, reports no problems either.

I have to got to work. I'll rejoin this thread when I get back.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

the filter is the perfect place for the BB to grow. the carbon should have no effect on the BB.

you may want to consider a sponge filter intake cover if you are worried about a place for the BB to grow (will also keep your bettas tail from getting caught up): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LL32RY/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

as mentioned, prime doesnt remove ammonia from being read, just locks it up for 24 hours.

i have that same tank, my tap has .25ppm ammonia in it, i would do 2 50% changes a week and condition the tap water with 2 drops of prime, with 2-3 drops of prime everyday. took about 6 weeks but my tank cycled with no ill effects on my betta.

my guess is you are getting erroneous readings from your test kit. and it is def a good idea to take it to LFS to have your tank water tested.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I don;t trust pet-stores to accurately test my water.

Jessie, how are you getting your figures (readings) for ammonia now? 

Water should flow entirely _through_ your filter in order for it to be an efficient repository for nitrifying bacteria. Just being wet is not enough. If one part of the filter is brownish (that's biofilm and bacteria) and the rest is clean, it's not filtering completely. What kind of filter is it? How big is the filter pad? If it doesn't bother you fish, it would be nice to keep it. How's it working for you RCM?

A sponge filter will harbor more bacteria. That doesn't mean there's more bacteria in the tank. Bacteria colonies grow only as large as necessary to oxidize the an\mmonia your stock puts out ....no more, no less. It's a balance. And it doesn't take much. That's why I'd like to see if your filter will work.

After 9 weeks, you should have enough bacteria to oxidize ammonia and show nitrate. Change half the water whenever ammonia rises above0.25ppm. Use Prime @2-drops/gal with water changes and 1-drop/gal until cycled. (You know to watch for nitrate.)

Keep us posted. I want to see how this comes out.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Here is the tank with the hood removed. The filter pad rests at the top of the tank, just at or above the water level. 
You can see where the water falls from above the filter and pours onto the pad from one side.









The closeup of the filter pad shows the color a bit better. There is significant discoloration below the water flow, 
but the end of the pad farthest away from the spout still looks clean.









Hallyx, I have been testing with the API ammonia liquid test kit. Thanks to RainbowsHaven for the suggestion to test bottled water. I did find a bottle on hand. Finally, I saw a 0 ammonia reading from my kit. That seems to confirm that my test isn't faulty, and my tap water does indeed contain .5 ammonia. Until my tank cycles, I will never see a reading below .25, because my "clean" water is already twice that level. I've been continuing the 50%-60% PWC every two days. I did one on Monday. Skipped yesterday, but added a few drops of Prime to the tank. Did a PWC today and tested the water I removed. It read 1 ppm ammonia. That's as good a reading as I've seen, since getting the test kit last Friday. On Monday I also tested for nitrate, using the API liquid kit. (I haven't purchased the kit for nitrite.) It read <5, which is the first time I didn't get a 0 on nitrates. 

Relaxedcrazyman, thank you for the link to that pre-filter sponge. It looks like that may be just the thing to enhance my filter. Have you put it on the intake to the filter that came on the Minibow? Does it fit easily, or did you need to rig it to stay in place?


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

FYI, the type of filter I have is shown in this thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=353842


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

the pre-filter sponge should fit perfectly and stay put.

as hallyx mentioned, just make sure to dose Prime daily to detoxify the ammonia.

i dont know if i read it mentioned, but make sure if you are cleaning your filter media, or the pre-sponge filter, you are swishing it in old tank water you removed, and not straight tap water as that will kill the BB


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

Yup. Prime will definitely help until you can get things cycled. Some floating plants can also help soak up the excess ammonia, in the meantime.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That is the weirdest most ineffective filter design I've seen ----except for that stupid Tetra 3i.

An efficient filter *pulls* the water _through_ the media (sponge filter) or *pushes* it _through_ (power filter). No efficient filter relies on the water merely flowing through the media by gravity. 

As soon as the top layer of the filter fills up with particulates and bacteria, the filter stops working and needs to be cleaned. Pretty soon it gets stopped up and needs to be replaced...and there goes all your nitrifying bacteria. I'm appalled that Aqueon would market such a POS. They really ought to know better.

Don't fight it. Get an Azoo Palm for $7 or find the sponge filter tutorial on here.

OK, Wait. Some large-pore AQ foam might work effectively. You could try that first.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks for the confirmation. At least it's not my fault that it hasn't cycled yet. So, I'd like to get a real filter and be done with it. I watched some videos on the Azoo Palm. I like that it wouldn't take up tank space. My question is how much space it needs along the edge of the tank to hang. I like the tank's hood, but I only have about 2 inches open (where the cords for the heater and filter come through) where I could mount a filter. I'm thinking it looked wider than that. 

If the Palm won't fit, I'll look to order that teeny tiny sponge filter I saw in another thread. I saw a small air pump at LFS today, and I think it will fit on the table beside my tank.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Here is today's test of tank water. My interpretation is that ammonia is at or just below 1.0 ppm, and nitrate is barely registering. Do you agree?

I am still doing 50% pwc every 2 days. Today was water change day. The test was done on water from the waste bucket. I took a sample to LPS, and they used the same kit to test ammonia. The guy got the same result, but he told me it's "not that bad," and that I should stop changing the water so often if I want it to cycle. Um,... No. Of course, I can't change it when it gets above 0.25 ppm, since my tap water is double that. Thank goodness for Prime!

Before switching to Prime last week, I was using Stress Coat as my water conditioner. I wonder if the aloe or other ingredients in it were protecting my betta from ammonia burns. He's such a tough little guy.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

Time for some serious floaters. The right plants will help suck up that ammonia.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

+1*^*

I'm not convinced Aloe Vera is all its cracked up to be. It's a topical ointment effective for injuries or burns on mammal hides and skin. The small amount infused into aquarium water is more for soothing the keeper than the fish, I think. 

Only a pack-a-day smoker would think 1.0ppm ammonia is acceptable.

Internal Sponge Filter CAF-10

Amazon has it, too, I think...maybe.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I've ordered the little sponge filter, air pump, tubing, check valve, and a better heater with a thermostat (yikes!). I can't wait to get the filter changed.

In the mean time, it's been 4 full days since I received the NLS Betta formula. He went for it the first 2 days, but now that he is very aware of the change, he is rejecting the food. He ate 1 pellet this morning, so I thought he'd be hungry for supper tonight. No dice, as he spit out the first pellet I offered to him. So now I guess we play a game of wills over his food, to see who breaks first. I won't worry unless he goes a week without eating, but I sure do miss seeing him chomp down his meals. He'd gotten fast enough that I could leave the filter on and let him catch the pellets as if they were bugs - it's fun to watch. Now I'm back to unplugging the filter and waiting while he circles around and around the interloping pellets, eyeing them suspiciously. Game on, little fella.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, most of them are garlic-hounds, but a fe aren't. Keep us apprised of your set-up as you build it. I'm interested. Pics, too, when you can.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

LOL been there done that. He'll come around and be super happy with feeding times again.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

try soaking the pellets in a little tank water for a couple of minutes before you feed him.

Hades would spit them out too, now he jumps to get them off the tip of my finger.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

My new thermometer came today. I'd been using an under gravel betta bowl heater. It warmed the water enough, but I was having to unplug it on warmer days and check the temp constantly. I bought a 25w Hydor Theo because it looked small enough for my tank. It fit without any trouble. I placed it diagonally so I could easily see the temp dial, and to place the power cord closest to the gap in the hood. Boy, does Axl hate change. He flared and flared at the top of it, and he swam it little circles to stay away from where it hangs. He seemed really threatened. I turned off the lights near him and left him alone, to try to not add to his stress level. Six hours later, I went to check the temp, only to find him perched at the top end of the thermometer. Like, sitting on top of the control dial. It's the funniest thing. In the past, this fish had completely ignored the betta hammock I gave him. I used to feed him above it, but he never used it as a resting perch. So it was really funny to see him using the heater as a perch. Crazy fish!

He is really going to hate the sponge filter. It is supposed to arrive next week.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

how is the feeding going?


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Feeding is going great - for the fish. I totally caved. 

Fish: 1. Me: 0

I should say, I changed strategy. He was refusing the NLS. He'd watch for the pellet, swim up to it, sometimes touch it to his mouth, then swerve around it to the side, swim to the bottom of his tank and hide. If he did take a pellet, he'd crunch a bit and spit it out. It didn't matter if the food was dry, or if it had gotten soft from tank water. He was acting more and more fearful with each feeding time. The last time I tried, I stood there for 20 minutes trying to get him to take one pellet. He'd go hide, I'd pick up the pellet and place it in again. He'd do a "swim-by", hide, repeat.... 

He was acting so scared and stressed that I decided to put the switch on hold for a bit. The next day I went back to the inferior Top Fin Betta Bites. He hesitated at first, but after tasting the first pellet he came back for more. Then his new heater came, and I figured one change at a time was plenty for him. He still flares at the heater, too, but I also still find him sleeping on the top end of it. What a kook! 

Once I earned back some trust in regards to his feeding, I started a new approach. From behavior modification theory, I know that random reinforcement produces stronger behavior changes than other reinforcement schedules (or none at all). His old food is the reward; eating NLS is the target behavior. At his last 2 feedings I started with the old and snuck in 1 or 2 NLS. He took them, and he ate so quickly that he didn't fuss over them like before. I'll keep doing this for a while if he keeps eating them. Hopefully after a while I can reduce the Top Fin and increase the NLS, until he is so used to the NLS that I can stop the Top Fin altogether. 

When the sponge filter comes he'll have to endure another big change, so I'll have to see how that goes, too.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Brilliant feeding strategy. I'll have to remember that ....and pass it along.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

JessiesGill said:


> Feeding is going great - for the fish. I totally caved.
> 
> Fish: 1. Me: 0
> 
> ...


Brilliant. Love it.

My Betta simply lost the battle of wills when I switching him from flake to pellets. He got hungry, he ate. Sticking in one pellet and then standing back wasn't overly stressful, he just wasn't interested in eating them... at first. Now he goes after it so aggressively I can have him nip my fingertip (doesn't hurt) when going for the food. Considering teaching him to jump for it!


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

recently i got my little guy to start jumping for the pellets 

it looks great and my coworkers are amazed, lol.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Feeding is going better. He's up to 75% NLS and 25% Top Fin. The only time he hides from his food is when he gets a pellet that is bigger than he likes. It's funny, because it looks like he's afraid that if his food is too big it might bite him back. 

The sponge filter came today. I got the Aquatop CAF-10. I knew it would be small, but I was surprised by how small it really is. Will that tiny sponge hold enough BB to cycle the tank? I'm considering getting some more sponge to place at the outflow, both to calm the circulation a bit and to help with the cycle. I'd appreciate any opinions on this. My goal is to get this little tank cycled, because my tap water has .5 ppm ammonia. 

For now, I have the sponge filter below the original filter. The old filter is baffling the outflow a bit, and the outflow looks to be keeping the old filter pad wet. My hope is that BB in the pad will be able to colonize the new sponge. I turned off the old filter when I turned on the new one. What do you think? 

Axl didn't freak out at the filter like he did with the heater. He seemed more curious than stressed. The outflow is a lot stronger than with the old filter, but he swam around and went to the bubbles, rather than hiding from them. The air pump doesn't have a control valve, and I haven't bought one. I'm undecided as to whether that is needed. I'm thinking it would be better to add sponge, instead.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Here is the sponge filter below the original filter. I buried the base in the gravel to keep it in place, but none of the sponge is buried. You can see how the bubbles are collecting under the old filter, and it is keeping them from churning the surface too much. It is a lot stronger than before, though. You can see Axl under the thermometer there, exploring.









Top view of the tank. It gives an idea of the relative size of the filters. Do I need more sponge before I remove the old filter? Should I run them both, or just keep the old pad there for a while?









Silly fishie playing in the bubbles. This may be the first time he's ever seen bubbles. Before I got this tank, he lived in a small vase.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Run both filters for a couple of weeks to transfer the bacteria. If you can, use more sponge in the sponge filter. Put some of your old pad in there. 

If he can handle the flow, you don't need and air valve. You only need a backflow check-valve if the airpump is below the surface level.

As long as you don't get carried away with snails, or with overfeeding, or neglect vacuuming you'd be surprised at how small a bacteria colony is needed in the filter. Everybody I talk to loves their CAF-10


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Update: Axl is now at 100% NLS pellets. He is starting to swim up to my hand at feeding time. He usually grabs the pellet before it goes very far, and I can leave the filter on. He seems to have adjusted well to the change in diet. I've been giving him 3-4 pellets twice a day, which is the same amount I used to feed him of the Top Fin.

I have some more sponge on order to put around the lift tube, but I have to wait a week for delivery. I'm not sure if taking bits of the current filter pad is an option, because it is the kind that is filled with carbon. ? I do have a check-valve on the airline, because the pump is on the floor under the table where the tank is. The carpet keeps the pump very quiet, and I thought that putting it on the table with the tank might vibrate the tank unpleasantly. I don't plan to add a snail; Axl seems content enough as an only child. (I've had no algae or diatoms, maybe because I don't have any live plants or because the tank doesn't get direct sunlight.) I may consider some floating plants, but I think I'd need a new light bulb for the hood first. The one it came with is incandescent and heats the water after a few hours, so I haven't been using it much. Even with the new Hydor heater with thermostat, the light will raise the temp 2-4 degrees. I thought the thermostat would enable the heater to account for the light and keep from raising the temp above its setting, but it has not performed that way. For a plant, wouldn't I need a fluorescent light? By the way, I have a history of killing plants. I'm not proud, and it's not pretty, but my thumbs are black.

I am still changing water/vacuuming every 2 days and adding Prime between changes. I try to remove as much water as I can without making the fish uncomfortable - usually 60-75% of the 2.5 gallons. I tested the ammonia from the waste bucket after today's change, and it read at or just above 1 ppm. I then tested a sample from the top of the tank (right after the water change) and that read about 1 ppm as well. (What? I expected it to read better than the waste water.) I understand that the daily Prime dosage will protect the fish, but I'd like to know if there is anything else I need to do for him. Should I do repeated PWCs until the ammonia gets closer to 0.5, like my tap water? Change the water every day? I haven't bought the nitrite test kit yet, but it is on my shopping list. Would that give me a better idea as to the quality of water in the tank?


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

Depends on the plant. Florescent is necessarily mandatory. Some do just fine with even cheap LED lighting and ambient room light. Stick to low light plants like Anubias and Java Fern. Tie them to a rock, driftwood or other decoration and you're good to go. Super low maintenance. I have an incredibly black thumb, too, but I'm doing ok with aquarium plants. (you don't have to water them!  LOL) Also, again, floaters like duckweed and hornwort are great for soaking up ammonia.

1 ppm ammonia is not great, but also not a level to be panicky about, especially starting off at 0.5 from your tap water. It will eventually go lower from there. If anything, I'd pull back on the water changes, say, every 3 days. Test regularly for sure. A certain amount of ammonia and stability is good to get your cycle going. As long as you're not going over that 1 ppm mark at three days, you'll have proved that you're not actually helping by changing more frequently than that, so may as well not stress your tank inhabitants any more than necessary.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I must caution against extending you wc schedule. Prime protects by locking ammonia into a molecule that Seachen call Prme/ammonia complex. This molecule begins to decay immediately, releasing the ammonia back into the system over the next 24+ hours, slowly enough for your bacteria and/or plants to remove it ....so the theory goes. 

Ammonia at 1.0ppm is really pretty high. I'd keep doing 50% wcs at least every other day until you're sure the tank is cycled. I also recommend 1-drop/gal of Prime daily while cycling.

I'm a black thumb too. I specialize in Anubias, all kinds, tied-down and floating. I float some for shade, hides and rests near the surface, Better than hammocks in my opinion.

Florescent bulbs (6500K ~ Kelvin, color temperature) grow plants best without heating the water. I've come to prefer the color rendition at that K.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Sponge came today. Woo hoo! It slipped on perfectly over the lift tube and rests on the filter's sponge, tripling my sponge volume. I added a regulator valve and turned down the air to where the water's surface isn't churning. (I missed seeing bubble nests.) I changed out the hood light to a CF. The bulb was sold as Aqueon brand and claims it is good for plants. It has a blue tube and a white tube; I like the way the blue makes the tank look. And it brings out the blue in the fish. 

I did get some anubias. I went to LFS, and they sell the plants right from their fish tanks. They look nicer and healthier than the PetCo tubed plants. Because they were with live fish, I placed them into my clean water bucket to rinse and soak. After a few minutes, there was a tiny snail clinging to the bucket's side. Glad I have the plants in quarantine! Each plant is 3 separate stems bound loosely by some sponge around their roots. The store had those little root/sponge bundles buried in the gravel. Should I just put them in my gravel? Or should I remove the sponge and free the roots? What do you use to tie them to something in the tank? 

Now that I am fully sponged, I also bought a bottle of TSS. Is it safe to pour that in while the fish is in his tank?


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

For your anubias: Separate the sponge (probably rockwool) from the roots and chuck it. Some people like to trim the roots slightly, which encourages further growth (I've read... I've done this on some and not others, don't see much difference).

Then get some fishing line or sewing thread (pros and cons to each) tie the root bundle to a rock, driftwood, or other decoration in the tank. They don't get planted into the substrate because the roots pull nutrients directly from the water. Some people say theirs do ok with just the roots buried, but it depends on the substrate you have, I suspect. The rhizome (the stalky part that the leaves grow out of) definitely must be in open water. I always simply tie mine to driftwood or even a rock so it can be moved around as needed. I prefer fishing line, which stays forever until you cut it away on purpose. Others prefer cotton thread which disintegrates on it's own in a month or two. (I have found my anubias in low light tanks don't grow fast enough to adequately grab onto the rock/wood before the thread gives way, so I prefer the fishing line.)

Then stick it in the tank anywhere you like and you're done with care until it grows enough that it needs pruning.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Many thanks, kman and Hallyx, for talking me through all of this. I got some fishing line and tied each anubia to a small silk plant. Since I had sponge, light, and plants in place, I added the bottle of TSS. My last wc was yesterday. I will add 3 drops of Prime tomorrow and check the ammonia level.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Ammonia reading today is 2 ppm.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

do a 50% water change, and then in a little bit do another 50% water change.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

The water changes won't disrupt the cycle I'm trying to start with TSS, right? I've read a few threads on cycling with TSS, and I haven't found a consensus regarding water changes. I know that in general, bb live in the sponge and substrate. But is that true right after adding TSS? The initial cloudiness cleared up within a few hours of adding the bottle, so I'm hopeful that the bb did end up in the sponge.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

as long as the water is flowing, the bacteria will be moving into the sponge. and as long as you are using the conditioner it should not affect your cycle, or use of the TSS.

it is most important to get your ammonia down.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Thank you, rcm. That's what I was thinking. I just did a second 50% wc. I tried to pick up visible waste, without reaching down into the gravel as I usually do. I was trying to avoid disturbing the substrate as much as possible. Ammonia level is closer to 1 ppm. I will keep testing often to watch for it to spike.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Here is Axl in his upgraded home. He took to the anubias right away.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

looks wonderful 

yes, when vacuuming, just hover over the surface to collect the waste, and to not disturb the substrate too much, i just had a huge spike in ammonia from disturbing the substrate too much. such a pain in the behind, i lost a fish and 3 cherry shrimp because of it...


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Early morning water check:
Ammonia - above 1 ppm
Nitrate - between 5 and 10 ppm!

That is the first time I've seen a significant nitrate reading. Can I be excited yet? Does this indicate that my sponge has some bb at work now?
After 50% wc, ammonia is just below 1 ppm. It is really difficult to dilute the ammonia with water that contains .5 ppm ammonia. (Yes, I'm using Prime religiously.) 
Would it be wise to buy spring water or betta water to dilute the level better until I establish a cycle? Would that interfere with the process instead? I hate to spend money on water, but if it will help get things moving forward, I'll try it.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

dont waste your money on anything other than tap water.

i would try to keep the water below 1ppm. dose with prime and leave the tank be for a full 24 hours. see if your ammonia has dropped at all. if it does, YAY, you are in business. if it is still above 1ppm, do another water change.

nitrate showing up is a great sign. make sure that number stays under 20ppm.

any readings on nitrite?

with nitrate showing up, fingers crossed, you should should start to see ammonia start dropping to zero.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I finally found a nitrite test kit today. I'll test for that in a little while. However, I am not too optimistic. As of this morning, ammonia is still building, and nitrates were dropping. This is getting frustrating.

On a brighter note, Axl loves his anubias. He sleeps on the highest leaves at night and lounges on others during the day. Since they are a low-light plant, do I need to limit the number of hours that I leave the hood light on?


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

API liquid test kit: nitrites - zero
That's a resounding NO on the question of cycling. Sigh.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

JessiesGill said:


> On a brighter note, Axl loves his anubias. He sleeps on the highest leaves at night and lounges on others during the day. Since they are a low-light plant, do I need to limit the number of hours that I leave the hood light on?


Better than a betta hammock.  Mine loves them, too!

The Anubias won't have an issue with the extra light, but too much light can cause algae. Best to stick to 8 hour light cycles.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I posted this photo to show where the air comes out of the filter. The extra sponge is taller than the lift tube. The air rises up through that sponge. Is that okay? Would it function better if I cut the sponge down to expose the end of the lift tube? The water is nice and clear; it just won't cycle.

I'm asking because it's been ten days since I installed the sponge filter. Ammonia still rises at a steady .25 ppm per day. Nitrites are zero. No sign of it even beginning to cycle. I have to change water every 2 days. 

WC day: .5 ppm 
Day 1: <1 ppm
Day 2: 1 ppm - WC required
Repeat...


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

^^ That's where the air is supposed to come out of the filter, FWIW. Normal operation for a sponge filter.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Yes, I know. I was wondering if it was detrimental to have the outflow filtered, or if there would be any benefit to not filtering the air that is coming into the tank. I know I'm grasping at straws, LOL. The TSS obviously didn't work. I couldn't bear to do nothing while the ammonia soared, so I probably stopped it from working by doing water changes. My poor fish almost died in December from cold water and high ammonia, and I don't want to put him through a similar trauma.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Having an extended lift tube --as it were-- makes the filter work more efficiently. Your cycle is a little stubborn but not unusual. Some people have an even harder time. Cycling requires patience, as do other aspects of this hobby.

Water changes will not destroy the cycle, nor even slow it down much. As long as your ammonia never gets much above 0.25ppm and you're using Prime water conditioner to detoxify any smaller amounts, your fish is safe and your cycle is proceeding, however slowly.

TSS (and other live bottled bacteria) work well if they have never been exposed to freezing temperatures or temps over 90*, and if they haven't sat on the shelf for more than 6-months. These are hard conditions to evaluate, especially this winter.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Hallyx said:


> Having an extended lift tube --as it were-- makes the filter work more efficiently. Your cycle is a little stubborn but not unusual. Some people have an even harder time. Cycling requires patience, as do other aspects of this hobby.


Good to know my extra sponge can help and not hurt the process. "Stubborn" is a good word for it. Two weeks after getting the sponge, I still have rising ammonia and zero nitrites. I see that 2 weeks is really not a long time in this world, even though it feels long to me. I can always use a lesson in patience. 



Hallyx said:


> Water changes will not destroy the cycle, nor even slow it down much. As long as your ammonia never gets much above 0.25ppm and you're using Prime water conditioner to detoxify any smaller amounts, your fish is safe and your cycle is proceeding, however slowly.


And that is the source of my impatience: that my "clean" water is at 0.50ppm ammonia. With 70% wc every 2 days (as much as I can remove while leaving the fish in a comfortable amount during the cleaning), the level in the tank still creeps up closer to 1ppm than 0.50ppm. I did a double change today to try to take it back down to 0.50. The fish doesn't mind all the water changes. He follows the siphon around as I work. I guess if he isn't stressed, then I shouldn't be, either. I treat new water with Prime and add it to the tank between changes, as you've advised. 



Hallyx said:


> TSS (and other live bottled bacteria) work well if they have never been exposed to freezing temperatures or temps over 90*, and if they haven't sat on the shelf for more than 6-months. These are hard conditions to evaluate, especially this winter.


Hard, indeed. There were 3 bottles on the shelf, and all were dusty. Two had expiration dates in 2015, one had no date marking at all. I chose the one with the later date, but there is no telling what that bottle had been through before. It did cloud the water, spike the ammonia, and cause nitrates to increase. Too bad it was only temporary. "Patience" will become my mantra.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

Just curious: is using filtered water an option?

RO systems aren't horrendously expensive, it's just ordinarily it's not worth the small bump over tap. But in your case, maybe. Ever a cheap PUR filter on the kitchen faucet could make a huge difference.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I've been trying to figure out how to use filtered water. My kitchen faucet is a pull-out with toggle button for spray or normal flow. A PUR filter won't fit over it. I do have a filtered water dispenser in my refrigerator. Today I tested the ammonia of that water, and found it to be 0.25ppm. It's not great, but it is better than my tap water. I put 2 gallons on it into my water prep bucket. Of course, it was cold, so I mixed in some hot water from the tap. I tested the mix, and it was right back at 0.5ppm. Maybe my hot water has more ammonia than my cold tap. I don't know. The water heater is brand new; our old one died in December. 

My new experiment: I put 3 gallons of the filtered refrigerator water into my prep bucket. I did not treat it yet. I will treat it right before using it in the next water change. By then it will be room temperature, so it shouldn't take much warm water to bring it up to tank temp. OR - I could try putting the old 7.5 watt heater into the bucket to raise the temp. If this helps, I could buy a Brita pitcher to filter my water, rather than using the fridge.

I seem to have a new problem, as well. Those tiny snails that stowed away in the anubias are not gone. I find one several times a day. Sometimes I can get one out, and others escape my efforts. I do not want them in there, adding to the ammonia problem. Is there a safe way to eradicate them that won't harm my fish?


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## Briz (Mar 22, 2013)

The snails are likely either pond snails or Malaysian trumpet snails. Both are hard to completely remove. You could take the fish out while you thoughourly scrub and bleach everything in the tank, the tank itself, the gravel, the filter, etc... but not practical. Almost every planted tank gets some sort of snails. They don't add _that_ much to your bioload unless you let the population go crazy. You avoid that by mainly not overfeeding the tank. You can also manually remove any snails you see if it makes you feel better.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

JessiesGill said:


> I've been trying to figure out how to use filtered water. My kitchen faucet is a pull-out with toggle button for spray or normal flow. A PUR filter won't fit over it. I do have a filtered water dispenser in my refrigerator. Today I tested the ammonia of that water, and found it to be 0.25ppm. It's not great, but it is better than my tap water. I put 2 gallons on it into my water prep bucket. Of course, it was cold, so I mixed in some hot water from the tap. I tested the mix, and it was right back at 0.5ppm. Maybe my hot water has more ammonia than my cold tap. I don't know. The water heater is brand new; our old one died in December.
> 
> My new experiment: I put 3 gallons of the filtered refrigerator water into my prep bucket. I did not treat it yet. I will treat it right before using it in the next water change. By then it will be room temperature, so it shouldn't take much warm water to bring it up to tank temp. OR - I could try putting the old 7.5 watt heater into the bucket to raise the temp. If this helps, I could buy a Brita pitcher to filter my water, rather than using the fridge.
> 
> I seem to have a new problem, as well. Those tiny snails that stowed away in the anubias are not gone. I find one several times a day. Sometimes I can get one out, and others escape my efforts. I do not want them in there, adding to the ammonia problem. Is there a safe way to eradicate them that won't harm my fish?


Long term if it's a big problem you can look into an RO filter for under your sink. They're around $200... not cheap, but not necessarily impossible, depending on individual finances. Short term, you could heat up some of the less-ammonia-filled water on the stove, rather than using hot water from the tap.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

microwave some of the water after it comes out of the water filter in the fridge until you get the right temp?

pond snails (which is what it likely is) will not add too much to bioload. they will reduce more ammonia from waste than adding with poop, so the plus and minus will favor keeping them around. as long as you watch the amount you feed, they wont have a population explosion.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Snails are neutral bioload as long as you're not feeding them. I keep mine in check by manually picking them out of the tank whenever I see them, and wiping the eggs off the glass. I have a few. They mostly run around eating algae off my plants.

Right now ammonia in your sourcewater is a pain. But, once you're cycled, your fish will have less ammonia in his water than you do.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

*Recap and Update: Still no cycle*



JessiesGill said:


> Here is today's test of tank water. My interpretation is that ammonia is at or just below 1.0 ppm, and nitrate is barely registering. Do you agree?


It's been 7 weeks since I posted this test result, and my results continue to be exactly the same. Every two days I do a large water change, then test the removed water. Every two days, the tests read almost the same.

Here is a recap of how much time has passed for the following events:

17 weeks: new tank, gravel, decor, silk plants, cheap heater, Stress Coat
8 weeks: Prime, ammonia testing begins
6 weeks: Hydor Theo 25 watt adjustable heater
*5 weeks: sponge filter*
4.5 weeks: extra Fluval sponge, 2 anubias plants, TSS added
4 weeks: chemistry back to base levels-TSS failed

Every two days I still remove as much water as I can, while leaving the fish about an inch of water so that he doesn't panic. However, about every 3 to 4 water changes, the ammonia level has creeped up, requiring me to do a double wc (total water replaced = about 3 gallons, in a 2.5 gal tank) to recover the level back close to 0.5ppm. 

I am quite discouraged by the lack of change in the past 5 weeks. Changing out water every two days is beyond tedious. I have a new question for all you fishie gurus: *Would you recommend that I upgrade the tank to a 5 gallon?* I'd still be using my 0.5ppm-ammonia-tainted water. (None of my attempts to filter have been satisfactory. It's too difficult to match temperature, and when I do, it only adds ammonia back to the water.) If I got a larger tank, I'd transfer everything currently in use to the new one: sponge filter, thermometer, gravel, decor, silk plants, anubias. I think I would need another small bag of gravel, and I would get more live floating plants, since there would be room for them. 

I'd still be doing large water changes every 2 days until it cycled, which may be more work on my part up front. But do you think that a 5 gallon would cycle more easily, or is this just my wishful thinking again? Once cycled, would it be easier to maintain compared to my 2.5, if it ever cycles? _I'm so tired..._


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

you sir have a very odd tank. but dont be discouraged.

a 5 gallon would be better in that you would have to change less frequently since there is a greater volume of water for the ammonia to build up in.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

wow, i have that exact tank. it took 6 weeks to cycle but it DID eventually cycle. i put some extra sponge in mine, but I see you did that as well with the sponge filter. I wound up upgrading mine to a divided 10 gallon, which wasn't really any more expensive than a 5 gallon. i will say that mini bow was more work.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Combating sourcewater ammonia is a real pain. But do not panic. As long as you're treating the refill water with Prime (or other ammonia-locking conditioner) your fish is safe.

TSS and other bottled _live_ bacteria work very well IF they are _alive_ when added. Unfortunately, this winter has made that problematic, as you never know what conditions it may have been subjected to during shipping

Dr. Tim's On-and-Only is shipped direct from the factory in an insulated envelope. That's no guarantee, but it does improve the odds. Unfortunately, while it works fine, it's kind of expensive.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I took the plunge! I was going to upgrade his tank to a more comfy 5 gallon. I wasn't sure if the table I'm using now would support the extra weight, so I needed a new table. I looked for a cheap end table, coffee table, or shelf, but didn't find anything I liked. Ended up getting an aquarium stand and a TEN gallon glass tank with hood. The 10 cost less than any 5, and I didn't want the ful kit with filter, so it made sense to get a 10 and have it fit perfectly on the stand. 

I got the stand built last night. Today I have the exciting task of setting up the new tank and moving my fish without hurting him. I'll be using my current sponge filter, heater, and decor. I think my first step is to rinse the tank, buy more gravel and rinse that.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

hooray! trust me, the larger you have the more addicted you become...

wait until you get stable conditions, then the next question out of your mouth will be, "What else can i put in there with him."

teeheehee...


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

*Completed move to 10 gallon tank*



Hallyx said:


> Combating sourcewater ammonia is a real pain. But do not panic. As long as you're treating the refill water with Prime (or other ammonia-locking conditioner) your fish is safe.


I've been using both Stresscoat+ and Prime. Is that overkill? I like the Stresscoat, because when I stopped using it for a week or 2 it seemed like the fish lost some of his shiny top color. Should I treat refill water with Stresscoat only, and add the drops of Prime to the tank between water changes?

My bigger question is how much ammonia can the Prime detoxify? What reading should prompt me to do a water change, since I can't go by the standard 0.25 ppm?

I was doing wc every 2 days to try to keep the level as close to 0.5ppm as I could. Before moving Axl from his 2.5 gal today, I actually did a regular wc. The tank water after the wc was pretty close to 0.5, so I was pleased. After a very long day's work, Axl is all moved in to his shiny new 10 gal. I rinsed the tank and all the new gravel very thoroughly. The sponge filter, heater, gravel, decor, etc. from the small tank all moved over to the large one without rinsing. I bought a couple more silk plants and a half dozen more live plants, rinsed and added. I tested the tank water in the 10 gal, and it was 1.0 ppm. Say what? It's higher than the tap water? Does Prime protect the fish at that level? What if it were closer to 2? 

Now that I have 10 gallons reading at 1.0 ppm ammonia, how much water should I change? Or how long should I wait before changing, since that water is almost all new?

I bought another bottle of TSS, hoping that this one will work. My first attempt, when I added it to the little tank, it quickly raised the ammonia level above 2.0 ppm, and I did wc to bring the level down. This time, if I should see a spike, how high is safe to let it go before changing water? In a 10-gal, are most wc going to be 25%-50%? I'm planning to add the TSS tomorrow.



relaxedcrazyman said:


> hooray! trust me, the larger you have the more addicted you become...
> 
> wait until you get stable conditions, then the next question out of your mouth will be, "What else can i put in there with him."
> 
> teeheehee...


I know! It's like dominoes, isn't it? Actually, it's like "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie." One thing leads to another leads to another.... Haha! It should be a while before I get to that stage, though. I've got a lot to learn about the new tank first.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

You can check on the Seachem site but, if I recall correctly, a standard dose of 2-drops/gal of Prime locks-up from 1.0ppm-to 2.0ppm for 24 to 48 hours (the time may depend on the amount of ammonia being locked up. It's not clear). 

Stresscoat does the same thing. So it's your choice which to use and how. Using both together is not necessary and adds too many chemicalks to the tank, in my opinion.

I think TSS is supposed to raise the ammonia 1.0 to 1.5ppm. I consider this too high to subject fish to, but Prime will lock that up. Tetra says don't use ammonia-lockers. But I have majors issues with that advice. Seachem says Prime-locked ammonia stills feeds the cycle. Shake TSS really well and pour it into your filter. Rinse the bottle out in your tank to get it all in there.

In your case where readings are suspect and you source-water ammonia is high, I'd try to keep the ammonia below 1.5ppm, even with Prime. Do this with 50% wc's until your tank is cycled. Then weekly 25% to 33% wc's should work for general maintenance.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks for the info and help. I'll condition new water with just Stresscoat, and use Prime between water changes. 

I tested ammonia this afternoon to get a starting level. and it looked just below 1.0ppm. I added the TSS. Poured it in above the filter, which is in a corner of the tank. As the cloud spread through the water, my fish did something I've never seen him do before. He went to the bottom on the side where the TSS was most concentrated, and sort of licked at the gravel. Apparently, the TSS bacteria tasted good. I have never once seen this fish attempt to eat any food after it sank, nor has he ever nibbled along the bottom before. I think if I fed him sinking pellets that he'd truly starve. So the gravel-licking today was pretty funny to watch. 

Two hours after adding TSS, I tested ammonia again. It was a little above 1.0ppm, but not as high as 1.5. So I left it alone. I did add 10 drops of Prime to the tank, in case there was a sudden spike. 

Ten hours after TSS, I tested ammonia. Surprisingly, it was a clear 0.5ppm. I was expecting a spike, and instead it had gone down. So I tested nitrites, and got the usual 0. Curious, I tested nitrates. They were up to slightly above 5ppm, which is the highest reading I've ever had. Interesting.

I'll test again tomorrow. I'm really curious about which direction the ammonia will go between now and then. 

I think I also have to go get a new heater tomorrow. My 25 watt Hydor Theo is not cutting it in the 10 gallon. I've turned up the dial from 78 to 82, and the thermometer still is reading 76. I don't know how safe it is to keep cranking up the dial, so I err on the side of caution. Fish is acting normal, so it isn't an emergency. But it looks like it's time for a 50 watt heater.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

im glad to hear your readings are starting to stabilize!

i finally got a clear 0 ammonia reading after crashing my fulled cycled tank about a month ago.

patience is key 

i actually have two 50w heaters in my 10g, i have large temp swings at night so it was recommended i keep two heaters. once i dialed them in, i have a constant 78F 24/7


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks for the good info, JG. Keep us posted.

Good call on the heater. Many electrical devices don't like being used at full output all the time.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Readings today pretty much the same as last night.
Ammonia: slightly above 0.5ppm
Nitrites: zero, zip, nada
Nitrates: slightly above 5ppm

I bought a 50 watt Eheim Jager and a lovely little piece of driftwood from LFS. Heater is running a little high, compared to the thermometer I've been using. I've dialed it down a little and will calibrate it after it settles in to the familiar temperature. Driftwood is soaking in my water prep bucket. 

Patience is so much easier now that I'm not draining a tank every other day. I don't mind playing with my chemistry set a couple of times a day.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

im glad to hear things are finally coming into order. now that you have one betta in such a large volume of water, it should be much easier to maintain. 
then you can start to think about adding more fish 

just picked up another betta at petco yesterday, just could pass him up...
there were at least two other bettas i would have loved to have taken home, but alas i just dont have the space right now.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

So far, so good - I think.
Ammonia still just above 0.5ppm. Nitrites still flatlined. It's been 6 days without a water change. I am holding off as long as readings are okay, to give the TSS as much chance as possible to do its thing. Their website says not to change it for 2 weeks. If my readings go south before then I will do a 50% change. I added the driftwood to the tank today. That should provide a great deal more surface for the bb to grab onto. 

Here is a final shot of his Minibow apartment:









Here he is moved into his 10 gal ranch house. It's pretty funny with only the decor from the Minibow. He needs new furniture in his big house.









Last shot is from tonight, right after I added the driftwood. 









There are a few more photos in my Tank Upgrade album. As always, I welcome all comments and advice. I still have much to learn.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Is that Anubias you have floating ni the top left rear? Does yours like it as much as mine do?


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Yes, he sits in between some Anubias leaves, above the rhizome. He doesn't seem to mind that they float freely, because I didn't tie them to anything. (They actually stay in place fairly well.) There's also a small bunch of Water Wisteria that I tied together with twine. It floats all the way in the corner, behind him here. This corner is his favorite spot. Thanks for recommending the floaters. He seems pretty content.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

*Prep for Dr. Tim's - bigger sponge*

My readings seemed to have stalled. Nearly 2 weeks after the TSS, I was getting rising ammonia (between 0.5ppm and 1.0ppm), zero nitrites, and 5ppm nitrates. The gravel needed vacuuming, so I did a 75% water change on Sunday. I tested for ammonia after the change, and it looked a little above 0.5ppm.

The reason I changed so much water was in preparation for Dr. Tim's. My bottle has been delivered, and I am trying to prepare the tank as much as possible before I add it. So, here I am again, seeking any advice that may increase success.

I tested the tank water today:
ammonia 0.25ppm
nitrites 0.0000
nitrates between 5 and 10ppm.

I found that really interesting. Ammonia has gone down since the wc on Sunday. Nitrates may have gone up a slight amount. Is that enough to indicate some cycling activity? I know it isn't complete until ammonia reads zero. 

rpadgett37 suggested that my sponge filter is ineffective, and it made sense to me. The little sponge on the actual filter is getting grey and fuzzy, but the extra sponge that I added to it still looks very clean. Time for a bigger sponge. LFS had a sponge filter for up to 40 gallon tanks, so I bought it. I soaked it in conditioned water to get the dust out. I put it in the tank for about an hour. Then I put a T-valve on the air line from my air pump, connected the new filter, and left the small filter in the tank. I removed the extra sponge from the small filter, since it doesn't seem to have been colonized by BB. Both filters are running now. Had I not seen that drop in ammonia today I might have just removed the small one, but I'm thinking now that it would be better to run both for a few weeks. (The downside is that air flow to the new filter is only half of what it would be without the old one sharing the line.) Is that a good plan?

Here is a photo of the 2 filters after I connected them. The old filter is behind and to the right of the red silk plant. The new filter is on the left side of the red plant. The difference in surface area is pretty big.









What I want to know most of all is if I'm ready to add the Dr. Tim's. I know to keep the hood lights off for a few days after I add the bacteria. Should I raise the tank temperature to 80-81? The company told me that the bacteria was grown at 84 degrees. Is there anything else I need to do or wait for?

Thanks again for the advice.


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## Kumo (Oct 26, 2013)

Right on the bottle, Prime says it's made to treat larger tanks. However, I use it for my 2.5 and 10 gallon (I used it for my 20 as well whenever I had it setup) because it works very well. Whenever I was having ammonia problems in my 10 gallon (it was first starting to cycle) it really helped 

The best thing you can do to help keep ammonia down with a new tank: minimum feeding, 10-25% water changes every day, adding the proper amount of ammolock/prime/whatever you use to keep your ammonia levels down. The hobbyist community is extremely divided over using chemicals or not to help bring down ammonia. Some people say "just use a filter from a well established tank" however, for people with only one tank, that's idea goes out the window :/

I honestly don't like gravel substrate because it traps gunk so quickly. I also clean my filter pads every 3-4 days.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

For a lightly-stocked tank, any sponge filter (any filter<period>) will be large enough. The tank system will only grow enough bacteria to oxidize the ammonia produced by the livestock. No more; no less. By the time a tank is "established" the bacteria is spread-out and balanced wherever there is water flow and O2. The filter sponge will actually be harboring less bacteria than during the cycle.

Ammolock/Prime/whatever doesn't bring ammonia down. It only locks it up (binds it) for a day or two. It begins to unlock immediately. If the tank is cycled, the bacteria and plants remove it. If not yet cycled ...well, that's what more Prime is for. That's where the drop/gal/day advice comes from.

81* is a good temp. Pour the Dr Tim's on the filters and get going/


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Hallyx said:


> For a lightly-stocked tank, any sponge filter (any filter<period>) will be large enough. The tank system will only grow enough bacteria to oxidize the ammonia produced by the livestock. No more; no less.


Does the ammonia in my source water mimic extra bio load? Would my tank with 1 fish have a larger BB colony than the same tank where the source water had zero ammonia? Theoretically, would my water cycle without any livestock at all? (Is this too many questions?  )

Alrighty. My plan is to raise the temp to 81 and add Dr. Tim's after sundown, to give it a good 10 hours of darkness. 

I just saw Axl doing the cutest fishie thing ever. He was surfing the bubble stream of the small filter. The air line wasn't in the way like it usually was. He went head down to the riser tube, then rode the bubbles straight up. He wasnt fighting the current - it looked like he wanted to ride it. I'd never seen him do that before. He knows his territory so well that he investigates every change. Now he's back lounging in his favorite anubias leaves.


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Just for clarification, on the original sponge, water is pulling water through the sponge; however, given the design where the water is only pulling through the top and center of the sponge and not underneath due to the attachment, I don't believe the entire sponge is getting consistent flow through. The water will follow the path of least resistance, which in this case is over the top and through the sponge in the area on top next to the intake hose. That is the only place I believe you are getting BB, which doesn't seem to be enough surface area for the BB to grow.

The new sponge looks much better, and I hope to see some success here.



JessiesGill said:


> Does the ammonia in my source water mimic extra bio load? Would my tank with 1 fish have a larger BB colony than the same tank where the source water had zero ammonia? Theoretically, would my water cycle without any livestock at all? (Is this too many questions?  )


The BB will only grow to the amount of ammonia in the water, so it is far more dependent on what the bio-load is rather the size of the sponge. And I don't see any reason to switch up your cycling method at this point. The answer to your question is yes, but stay the course you have started.



> Alrighty. My plan is to raise the temp to 81 and add Dr. Tim's after sundown, to give it a good 10 hours of darkness.


Sounds good, Jessie. You are on track. Will be watching this thread with great anticipation. 

I just saw Axl doing the cutest fishie thing ever. He was surfing the bubble stream of the small filter. The air line wasn't in the way like it usually was. He went head down to the riser tube, then rode the bubbles straight up. He wasnt fighting the current - it looked like he wanted to ride it. I'd never seen him do that before. He knows his territory so well that he investigates every change. Now he's back lounging in his favorite anubias leaves.[/quote]


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I left one thing out. Be sure to keep the air flow up as that will serve to oxygenate the water.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

The air pump is full throttle, evenly split between the two filters.

12 hours after Dr. Tim's:
Ammonia - almost 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 5-10ppm

24 hours after Dr. Tim's:
We have 0 Ammonia. 

That's the first time I've seen 0 ammonia since testing bottled water. I have still never seen nitrites. This concerns me a little. All I can do is wait and watch.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Especially with fresh bottled bacteria, sometimes the nitrite spike can occur so quickly that you might not notice. Look for a slight rise in nitrate before every water change. That's the bottom-line indicator that the tank is cycled.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Should I do a small water change to add some ammonia to the tank? I'm glad that I finally saw yellow, but now I'm wondering if the BB have enough to eat. Or should I just leave it alone, keep on keeping it dark and warm?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Leave it alone. Keep it dark and warm. 

Fewer 50% wc's are more effective than more 25% wc's. For a 10g, you probably won't have to do a weekly wc. Check you nitrate readings and see.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Day 3 after Dr. Tim's 
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 5<n>10

Holding steady on day 3. When is it okay to use the hood lights again? 
How long should I run both filters before removing the small one? 2 weeks? 4 weeks?


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

JessiesGill said:


> Day 3 after Dr. Tim's
> Ammonia: 0
> Nitrates: 5<n>10
> 
> ...


Hi Jessie,

You can turn them on now. As for the sponge, you can leave it in or take it out at your leisure.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

JessiesGill said:


> Day 3 after Dr. Tim's
> Ammonia: 0
> Nitrates: 5<n>10
> 
> ...


very promising results! i would say run them at least a week. two would be good.

and after you do remove it, be sure that you will see a spike in ammonia, that should last about a week or so while the bacteria try to catch up.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Day 5 after Dr. Tim's
Ammonia: 0 (or close to 0)
Nitrates: 5<n<10 (as I should have written it above, as well)

I have not been adding Prime to the tank daily since the ammonia dropped. I run the hood lights during the day. Still running both sponge filters side by side. I have not done a water change, but I may need to do a small top-off to replace what has been lost from evaporation and testing. (If this is a bad idea, let me know.) I did get a turkey baster to spot-clean. Occasionally a pellet sinks, and my fish won't touch it. 

My plan is to keep testing, and hopefully go 2 weeks before a 50% water change. I'll run both filters until then. The wc will raise my ammonia to a visible level. If I see ammonia drop back to 0 after the wc, I will then remove the small filter and watch to see if the cycle adjusts to that.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yep. You understand it very well. Do what you just said. 

And keep us posted


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi Jessie. Good to hear from you.

I agree with Hallyx. You have a firm grasp here. Even still, I have been thinking about this a little, and I think you should keep up with a regular water change schedule.

Under other circumstances, where the ammonia source comes from either something we put in the aquarium or from the fish. Yours is one of those oddball situations where your water is also a part of the ammonia source. The BB need that ammonia to keep growing, and you want yours to grow to the point where they reasonably keep up with the extra ammonia that will come into the aquarium with each water change.

In truth, I don't think there will be a time that you won't get a small ammonia and nitrite spike with water changes. The extra ammonia will see to that; however, I don't think it will be enough to have to take any drastic measures for. Your BB will break it down eventually, probably quickly. But in the mean time, you want them to get used to dealing with the added ammonia.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Do you think a weekly wc would help the bacteria stay strong? I did worry that after the initial drop they might die out, only being fed by the bio load of one betta fish. Tomorrow will be the one week mark, and I don't mind the wc. After doing them every 2 days, once a week is like a vacation.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

the bacteria will be fine. but if you feel like doing a water change, go for it. lol. the amount of bacteria will be the exact amount needed to digest the ammonia in the tank, no more than that.

the small bioload is fine, just remember when adding new fish, do small amounts at a time. usually in that first week after adding new stock you may want to do a partial wc to keep the ammonia down while the bacteria catch up.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I don't plan to add any fish. It's the water changes that will increase my ammonia. Every time I add tap water, I will be adding ammonia. The bacteria will have to be able to keep up with that.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Rp is right. A weekly 50% water change is always good policy for reasons other than cycling --- replacing minerals, removing nitrate. It won't effect the cycle.

Good input from the Crazyman.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I'll do the first weekly 50% wc tomorrow and test prams after that.

I really, really appreciate all of your ongoing assistance. You've all taught me so much. It's getting easier. I'm still learning.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

yea, a lot of people jump right in and are forced to learn a lot...

i was one of those people, lol. but it feels really good to share that knowledge. and im glad you are willing to listen, learn and apply what youve learned. so awesome that you havent given up! once you get the tank nice and stable, you will soon find that you want to stock more fish, or add a screen and add another betta. lol. it is very very addicting.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Day 7 after Dr. Tim's - Week 1 50% water change

Prams after wc
Ammonia: 0.25~0.5 ppm (closer to 0.5)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm

Both sponge filters are running. I didn't touch them. Hood lights off, overhead room light on. Moment of truth will be tomorrow when I check to see if ammonia drops. Until then, I'll be cheering on my BB. (Give me a B! Give me a B!)


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Drum-roll please...

Prams 1 day after 50% water change
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 or slightly above

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

I wanna throw a party and do a happy dance. Nobody at home gets how big this is. You get it. So I invite you to put on your party hats and turn up the music.

I'm going to keep that little sponge in there for another week or 3. It's not hurting anything. The big sponge is starting to lose its clean look. I'll let it get good and grimy before I take out its little partner.

Dr. Tim's One and Only FOR THE WIN!


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

lol... That's great Jess. Glad it has resolved so nicely for you


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

congrats!

Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light. -John Milton


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

I did my Wk 2 50% wc yesterday. After the change
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5ppm

Today, 24 hours after wc, ammonia is at or near 0. Yippee!

I removed the t valve from my air pump and connected only the large filter to the pump. Little sponge is in the tank, but without the oxygen feeding through it, I think the bb will die and allow more the bb in big sponge to replace them. I'll test ammonia tomorrow. If it is 0 I'll remove little sponge and retest in a day.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Ammonia was a clear 0 today. I never thought I'd love yellow so much.
I removed the small sponge tonight. I'll test tomorrow in case the change causes a bump in the cycle.

I am now seeing brown algae (diatomes?) on the plants and decor. I read that they are common in newly cycled tanks, so I take them as a win! Not messing with them so far.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

yea, you might see a small spike in ammonia since the BB in the remaining sponge will play catch up, but it shouldnt take too long to do so.

when i first started getting yellow, i def thought to myself, "I never thought i would love the color of pee."


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

As long as they're kept wet and warm, the bacteria in the small filter will just go to sleep. It really takes a lot to kill them. They'll be available to transfer a cycle when ever you are.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> As long as they're kept wet and warm, the bacteria in the small filter will just go to sleep. It really takes a lot to kill them. They'll be available to transfer a cycle when ever you are.


learned something new. so potentially, when i switch over to sponge filter, i could just keep the filter pad and sponge pre-filter in the tank to preserve the bacteria?

sweet...


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

There are a lot of things like that which are easier than you think. It may take a while to wake them up, but unless you overheat or freeze them, or let them dry out, they're a lot tougher than most people think.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Wednesday readings
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates 10-20ppm

Thursday I did a 60-70% water change. I also rinsed off some of the plants and gently rubbed the algae off the leaves. So far the algae is forming on the plants and decor, but not the tank walls. I'm happy about that.

Thursday readings, immediately after pwc
Ammonia: 0.25-0.5ppm
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5ppm

I'll test ammonia tomorrow. I expect it will be back near 0 again. The cycle seems to be nice and stable. 

My daughter asked me if we can add more fish now that the tank is cycled. LOL! She saw a betta with neon tetras at the LFS. They were really cute, but I've read that they can be nippy. I don't want to add anything that may stress out my betta, as the whole point of upgrading his tank and cycling it was to keep him healthy and stress free. I can't do catfish because I don't want to change my gravel to sand. Maybe I could add a few shrimp. I need to research them.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

i have my betta with celestial pearl danio and chili rasbora. both have always been really skittish, but they all get along just fine. if you do go with neon tetras, just keep and eye on everyone, if issues arise, it will likely happen early, and you can return the tetras if it is an issue

it really depends on the temperament of your betta. i personally love having community fish, more fun.


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## Doting Mama (Apr 28, 2014)

Hey Jessie, I noticed in the earlier pic you posted that you have the Round Tower Aquarium Ornament in Orange - in your tank, I just bought this for my boy but haven't put it in because the inner "walls" of the tower are quite rough and I've been afraid that it would tear Noem's fins. The edges of each circle that the fish would swim through is very smooth, but I wasn't sure if Noem would be hanging out inside of it? How has your experience with this item been? Do you notice any tearing? Does your boy hide inside of it? 
I've also got a 2.5 mini and am trying to find suitable decorations. Noem is a biter so I do not want to introduce something that might do harm to the little fins he has left! Thanks much!


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi, Doting Mama! To be honest, when I bought the ornament I didn't know to feel the inside carefully. I didn't notice any rough spots when I felt the outside and the openings, but I may not have been thorough enough. I don't think it has ever damaged Axl's fins, so perhaps we got lucky. I've read that if you find rough spots, you can file them until they are smooth. Maybe you can smooth your a bit before placing it in the tank. Axl used to hang out in his quite a bit when he was in the Minibow. The only fin damage he's had was when he tore off half of a ventral fin. It happened right after I got his first adjustable heater. He used to rest above the control dial and swim up to the clips with the suction cups. I've always assumed that his fin got caught in the clip and tore when he moved away from it. So, while I can't be sure, I think it was the heater and not the hide that damaged his fin. I don't see him in it much since moving him to the 10 gallon tank. With the extra tank depth, he doesn't spend much time at the bottom. His favorite thing is some anubias. I got 2 small anubias when he was in the Minibow. I used fishing line to tie them to some small silk plants, so that the leaves were just below the surface. The minute I added the first one to his tank, he went right onto the biggest leaf. It was as if he'd just been waiting for me to figure out what he wanted. He has a few bigger anubias now that float free, and I usually find him resting on one leaf with another leaf above him. He builds bubble nests under them, too. Maybe they would help your fin biter feel more secure. You could get Noem 3 or 4 small-to-medium anubias and see if he likes them. They are very easy to keep alive. Left floating, their roots can take ammonia from the water. They are fine in low to medium light, so no special bulb is needed. I watch Axl swim through his plants every day, dragging his fins against the leaves, and they have not snagged or torn him. Good luck with your boy.


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## dragnz2159 (May 1, 2014)

Your story is letting me know it is possible to cycle a tank successfully with ammonia in your tap water. I have .25 ppm ammonia and 20 ppm nitrates in my tap water. I'm currently cycling my 5 gallon. I also started with the mini bow 2.5 gallon (Betta Bow 2.5 without the divider) and lost two fish. I'm not getting another betta until this tank is cycled.


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

dragnz2159 said:


> Your story is letting me know it is possible to cycle a tank successfully with ammonia in your tap water. I have .25 ppm ammonia and 20 ppm nitrates in my tap water. I'm currently cycling my 5 gallon. I also started with the mini bow 2.5 gallon (Betta Bow 2.5 without the divider) and lost two fish. I'm not getting another betta until this tank is cycled.


i HIGHLY recommend you use a lot of fast growing plants to suck up some of that excess nitrate, 20ppm is pretty high.


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## dragnz2159 (May 1, 2014)

@ relaxedcrazyman - What would you recommend? I don't have a "green thumb". I have LED lights on my aquarium.


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## Doting Mama (Apr 28, 2014)

Jessie, I want to applaud you on your dedication to cycling. I've read this thread from inception and no matter what the obstacle you just worked at it until you got where you wanted to be. Congratulations to you! After reading all that you went through I realize that it's not something I could do. (I barely understand all of it) Though you have inspired me to take a few cautionary actions in combating ammonia. I have the 2.5 MB undivided. I do a 25% WC on Tuesdays and a 50% change on Fridays and 100% about every 5 weeks, but I do not vacuum the tank (I didn't think I needed to since it was so small) what I do during WC is remove Noem, and use my hand to stir up the substrate so that a portion of it would be removed in the change. Noem rarely let a pellet fall & since I switched to the BioGold he's never missed one so there's no food stuck down there.

A few questions to Jessie and all the lovely people who have been kind enough to assist Jessie in this venture. 

I am going to order 3 anubias plants today to help with ammonia and shelter for Noem. Should I get different varieties of the anubias? Does that matter? 

Food - as I mentioned I recently switched Noem to the Hikari bio-gold but since reading further I realize this is yet another substandard food :-( So I'm thinking of switching to the New Life Spectrum but quite a few ppl seem to run into issues with the size of the pellets meaning they are too big for their betta to eat - is this a real concern? I don't want to to buy another kind of food just to throw it away. 

Since I don't vacuum should I just remove the substrate and replace with a few larger rocks and use a turkey baster for whatever solids remain? 

I also recently switched to Stress coat + from Splendid water conditioner but also realize after this thread that I should've just gotten the Prime so I'm going to order that today as well. 

I am using the charcoal filter that came with the tank and have stopped swapping it out once a month as the pkg directed. I read on this site that it can be used til it basically falls apart - would you all concur? 

Many, many thanks from DM & Noem


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

dragnz2159 said:


> @ relaxedcrazyman - What would you recommend? I don't have a "green thumb". I have LED lights on my aquarium.


that is the beauty of some aquatic plants, you dont need a green thumb. i would recommend wisteria, java fern, java moss, anacharis, duckweed, frogbit...


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## relaxedcrazyman (Dec 19, 2013)

Doting Mama said:


> Jessie, I want to applaud you on your dedication to cycling. I've read this thread from inception and no matter what the obstacle you just worked at it until you got where you wanted to be. Congratulations to you! After reading all that you went through I realize that it's not something I could do. (I barely understand all of it) Though you have inspired me to take a few cautionary actions in combating ammonia. I have the 2.5 MB undivided. I do a 25% WC on Tuesdays and a 50% change on Fridays and 100% about every 5 weeks, but I do not vacuum the tank (I didn't think I needed to since it was so small) what I do during WC is remove Noem, and use my hand to stir up the substrate so that a portion of it would be removed in the change. Noem rarely let a pellet fall & since I switched to the BioGold he's never missed one so there's no food stuck down there.
> 
> A few questions to Jessie and all the lovely people who have been kind enough to assist Jessie in this venture.
> 
> ...


For anubias, I have not grown them, so i cant really comment. i do suggest you read up on each and see which will grow best with your set-up.

NLS are great. unless you have a tiny little betta, the food isnt too big. it might be awkward for them the first week or so, but then they get used to eating it.

since you stir all the gunk up before removing the water, i think leaving your substrate is fine. 

go with prime for sure, best stuff out there.

use that filter till it is in pieces. what you should do though, is during that 100% water change, take the filter cartridge out and swish it around in the removed tank water. also, when you are getting ready to swap the cartridge out, put the new cartridge in the unit, or at the very least in the tank so that it can start to grow a colony as well (use both together for about 2 weeks)


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Doting Mama, your tank is filtered, so it's going to want to cycle (bacteria happens). A 100% wc is the only thing preventing it. Using Prime (or Stresscoat) for wc's and a drop a day/gal Prime (or 1/2-dose/gal Stresscoat) will protect your fish from ammonia. Get a test kit for security.

I love Anubias. Different sizes and varieties. Tie some to rocks and float some big ones for shade, hides and sleeping in.

Omega One Betta Buffet is never too big. And they float.

Vacuuming with a siphon for wc's is usually less stressful than removing him. A bare-bottom tank with rocks is attractive and easy to keep clean.

Keep your filter media as long as you can. That's where the bacteria live.

Good advice from RCMan. Thanks for allowing the hijack, Jessie. A good place to pass along this info.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

This is such a helpful community. I'm still learning, and it's nice to be able to help others now, when I can. 

Dragnz, hang in there. It gets much easier once the bacteria take hold. Although, at water changes I feel a bit mean. "Here, fishy. Let me replace your slightly dirty water with some clean, tainted water." Poor fishy. On the other hand, I could say, "Here, bacteria. Here's a new dose of ammonia for you. Come and get it." The day after wc, all is well.

Doting Mama, great advice from all my teachers here. I know my thread makes cycling sound difficult and complicated, but it isn't like that for most people. I was in a hurry because of my poor tap water, so I made changes until I finally saw results. You can just settle in to your maintenance schedule and get comfortable with it. Like Hallyx said, as long as you don't do 100% cleanings or switch out filter media, your tank will cycle itself in time. Relax and go with the flow. 

Four days after my last 50% wc:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5ppm

All is well. Algae is building up. I wiped down the front wall of the tank at the last wc, and already I can see spots of it again. The plant leaves keep getting a good coating of algae, as well. I may consider a nerite snail in the next few weeks. I need to research their care further before I proceed. And, I want to make sure I can identify them, in case the pet store I go to tries to sell me a different kind.


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## kman (Dec 10, 2013)

Just catching up on the boards after an extended absence. Glad your tank it finally cycling, JessiesGill! Makes a huge difference once everything is established. I have zeros across the board even going 2 weeks without a water change, with fully cycled tanks. I change at the 2 week point on general principal and to keep dissolved fert levels under control, not because the normally-tested parameters have budged.

Nerite snails should be easy to spot since their shells are usually pretty distinctive. I especially like the zebra nerites... those shells can't be mistaken for anything else, either.


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## JessiesGill (Feb 17, 2014)

*New Update: Nitrite spike! (root tabs)*

For the first time ever, I've seen purple. Serious purple. I am dealing with it, but I would like opinions as to whether I am on the right track.

Here's the back story. Ever since the 10-gallon tank cycled with Dr. Tim's, my water prams have been perfect. I've been doing once weekly 50% water changes to keep nitrates close to 10ppm. Each week I cleaned algae off the large leaves, tank walls, etc. I cleaned off the plants by running water over them and gently rubbing off the algae with my fingers. However, my plants were looking sadder and sadder. The anubias leaves were darkening, thinning, and getting holes. The java fern's leaves were curled up, faded, and some turned yellow. I removed the yellow leaves. I figured that they need some fertilization, since my cycle was removing ammonia from the water efficiently. I looked for Seachem Flourish at PetCo, but the only thing I could find there was API Leaf Zone. The bottle recommends using it with API Root Tabs, so I bought both items. 

The day after a water change, I added the first dose of Leaf Zone. A few days after, my betta had a small, perfectly round hole in the middle of his dorsal fin. There was no discoloration or any other visible damage. Water prams were still perfect. I dosed the tank with Stress Coat. A couple of days later, I could no longer find the hole. I wondered if the hole was caused by the fertilizer, but since water quality was good, I wasn't too concerned.

Last Friday was the next weekly wc. I added some of the API Root Tabs. The directions say to use 6 tabs for a 10-gallon tank. I only used 4 tabs. I'd read that some tanks have a nitrate spike after using them, so I wanted to be cautious. I placed the java fern and the largest anubias in the gravel and buried 3 of the tabs near them. The 4th tab was placed between the remains of my water wisteria and the java fern's little baby. The plants aren't buried deep; there is just enough gravel over them to keep them down. I also added the second dose of Leaf Zone, as recommended on the bottle. Finally, I added a dose of Stress Coat in case the fishie's fins still needed a little help.

I was out of town over the weekend. Last night (Sunday) I returned to find the water fairly cloudy. I tested the water at about 11PM:

Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 1ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm

Yikes! My first purple, and all the way at 1ppm. That sure did build a lot in only two days. The Stress Coat was a good idea, since it must have kept my betta protected. He seems fine. Without delay, I did a large (about 60%-70%) water change before I went to bed. I tested again this afternoon. Today at 1PM:

Ammonia: <0.25ppm, close to 0
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm

From that, I concluded two things. One, that my cycle is still functioning. Ammonia goes up when I change water, so to find it approaching 0 was reassuring. Two, that the nitrite level is still a concern. I did another large water change and tested again.

Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrate: 10-20ppm

Of course, the ammonia is as expected. It matches my tap water. I waited an hour for the tank to settle down, and did one more large wc to bring down that nitrite. The test after the last wc:

Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: <0.25ppm more blue than purple, but not the crystal blue of 0
Nitrate: 10ppm

I plan to test again tomorrow. What do you think? Do I need to vacuum down into the gravel to try to remove what is left of the Root Tabs? Or should I continue with the test and wc, and see if it settles down? Also, I didn't dose any Leaf Zone during all these wc. Should I add a dose of it, or wait for the nitrite spike to stop?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I think you should let the ferts wear out and re-evaluate your fert dosing and schedule. Glad you're on top of your testing, and know what to do about those readings..

Anubias and Java fern are slow-growing and don't need much fertilizer. They don't want much light either -- that's why the yellow leaves and thinning and transparency. Having algae is also a hint to cut back on your lighting. Just the minimum you can use to make the plants flourish.

But I'm not the one to be giving plant advice. Check in the plant section where the green-thumbs hang out.


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi Jessiegill. Long time no see 

Two things. You are using too many root tabs. Each tab has a radius of 4 - 6 inches. What happens when there are too many, and whether they leach ammonia (they do have a nitrogen content) into the water I am not certain. But if nothing else has changed, that may be the likely culprit.
Did you medicate at all beyond what you mentioned above?

Also, root tabs are not effective when it comes Java Ferns. It is predominantly water column feeders, and though wisteria can grow well planted with root ferts, it will also derive much of its nutritional needs from the water column. You will need to look at dosing the water.

Can you measure your GH and KH for me? And could you post some pics of your sick plants? This will help narrow down what your plants may need.


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## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I've been doing some research, and I am certain the root tabs are the source of the ammonia spike. The nitrogen content, composed of both ammonia and nitrate, is at 5% per tab. Any not being utilized by the plants will leach into the water causing the ammonia and nitrate spike you are seeing.

I'd suggest removing only the tabs not feeding the wisteria. The others will only continue to add ammonia to your water column.

As for the plants, with the anubias, is there any yellowing at the edges of the leaves? In your java fern. Can you see dark veins in the leaves?


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