# OutDoor Spawning?



## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

What exactly do I need? I have plenty of those large plastic garbage bins that collect water, will those suffice? And if I understand correctly, we let nature take it's course? It would be good for me, living in southwest florida, and all the mosquito larvae we get. What would happen when it rains? I would just like to know some pointers and basic information on outdoor spawn. Thanks!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

In my outside spawns-I use those tall 5gal buckets filled to the top with water-they are usually already somewhat broken on the top- but if not-I will break or drill holes in the upper 1-2 inches and use screen to cover the holes so water can flow through without the fish...lol......this way when it rains and overflows the bucket I don't have fish being washed out...

I place my buckets under the drip line on the shaded side of my house to limit too much sun and I have a couple under the drip line of a shed that gets more sun-water temp can range in mine up to 100F even in the shade-but it doesn't seem to cause any problems for the fish or hurt reproduction

I place slats-usually just one across the top so when it does rain and the water drips into the buckets-it will hit the slat or board first so the water doesn't mess everything up too much...kinda deflect the water a bit before it goes in the bucket...

I add lots of dried oak leaf and live plants...I let the live plants float since the substrate is leaf litter and debris that it creates as it decomps..I also add floating plants-water lettuce mainly for the bubble nest and lots of common snails to help eat dead material and produce infusoria for fry food

In some buckets I have a pair and in other I have trios....as I see the fry grow I move the fry to grow-out 5gal bucket and to a 250gal tank I have outside-but since it now leaks it only holds about 100-125gal of water

Water changes-I don't normally do water changes on my outside spawns per se....I let the rain do water exchanges for me, however, this year we had a drought......and I had to add water at least weekly to keep the buckets full....not just from evaporation but from animals drinking the water....

Feeding-due to the drought-we had limited mosquitos this year and what I normally used for most of the food for adults and fry...but the daphnia, seed shrimp and other aquatic critters did well but are so small I did supplement the adults with homemade food and I even bought some fish food this year to use...lol......thats how bad the drought was this year.....

*a side note....it rained...yea.....at least the drought- I hope is over.....rained 3 times in 5 days over 1 inch and going to rain again......so hopefully skeeters will start laying eggs.......

I can really tell a difference in growth/development in the fry with the limited live food.....

Problems you can have....monsters.......by that I mean Dragonfly nymps.....they can wipe out fry in a matter of days.....In the spawning buckets with the adults I don't normally have any problems since they will usually eat them...but in grow out buckets with only fry....I hope for the best and if I notice a decrease in fry numbers I will do a swap out and start a fresh bucket to move them to.......

I have a special outside container I am using this year for the first time....you can check it out in my album....it a little tyke baby bed...so far it is working out great.....


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Yay, thank you for posting this! I am going to try to spawn eventually like this...


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks OFL! And hahah Creat, you welcome, now you can get the same information

So for the original spawning container I think I'm gonna use a 7 gallon bucket with lots of frogs bit and water lettuce. For the growout I have a large garbage bin that will probably hold 50-70 gallons... Recently today I set out the bucket to collect rainwater so the PH won't differ too much when it does rain, and another container for mosquito larvae. If I, for some reason, don't get mosquito larvae, I'm going to have back up cultures of BBS and microworms. I'll probably throw them in there anyways for variety in the fry's diet.

I'll probably get a few snails as you said, would mystery snails suffice? Also, is the growth stunting hormone they release a problem, or will the rain do the water changes sufficiently as you said? Sorry for all the questions, I want to get everything as well as I can.


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

I forgot to add this yesterday but do you keep the female in the whole time? Does it make any difference?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I keep the females and male together all summer to get multi spawns...this year I needed a lot of Bettas to be ready this fall...so I artificially hatched a lot more than I normally do...I would steal the nest and eggs or I would wait until they hatched and scoop them up and move to a grow out......I would have new nest full of eggs about every 3-5 days.....due to the dark water and mass plants....I don't have problems with them hurting each other or eating fry....

Good plan with food...more varied the better...

I don't have too much issue with stunting hormone-as the the fry grow I move them to grow out containers, sunshine, active growth of plants and flushing the bucket when it rains or this year the water hose....lol.....

I have never used mystery snails....I use common-pond, ranshorn and trumpet....but I don't know why they wouldn't work too.....


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

What do you consider outdoor spawning season? if you dont mind me asking. Sense I live in western wa our hottest day can be maybe 85 lol but the temp can drop at night to 55* does this mean that it is to cold for up here to do it... I mean I could run a heater out there to make sure the temp doesnt fall to much


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

First..ask all the question you need......

I start my outside spawns up once the danger of frost has pasted...In the beginning I try to keep my lowest water temp in the upper 50'sF and if I can't I won't start them outside- I want the water to be able to warm up to at least low 70'sF for the bigger part of the time...this is for both the start and end of season....

A healthy Betta can usually tolerate short term low or high temps...but once it start to go into a longer term low temp you can start to see some problems...water warms up fairly slow too-especially if it doesn't warm up outside very fast during the day.....

In your case you may want to place your containers in full or mostly sunny areas so the sun can help warm the water a bit faster and if you have cooler temps along with limited sun.....you may need a heater or do it in the house so you have more control......I do the same thing in the house year around in 5-20gal tanks...the only difference is the live food that will naturally be supplied...but in my case...I still get a lot of that in my inside setups anyway....lol.....one of the benefits of natural systems.......

Some areas may not be good for outside spawning.....like I said, a healthy Betta can tolerate short term cool temps...but long term....it may not work out.......if your highs are 85F and lows in the 50's and you have limited sun and/or lots of rain.....it may be risky.....I would collect rainwater-add oak leaves and setup a container that could be easily moved to sheltered area.....add the heater or setup a natural system in the house for a more controlled environment.....


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I think I like that idea, collecting the rain water, I just have a hard time trusting the rainwater here... Do you test the rain at all and if so what do you test for?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I test pH, KH/GH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia.....I trust my areas rainwater....but, in long droughts I don't collect the first rain fall....I wait until we get a second rain if it is within a few days of the first......


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

So here not much rain lately, should I wait for the rainwater or use the hose? Also, there is a lake by my house that has a lot of plants, would it be safe to get some from there, or should I buy the plants? What I've seen was stuff like duckweed and frogsbit in the lake, and I figured this way any bugs or worms in the plant could be in the bucket. However, I see the danger in that, with dragonfly nymphs and such.

So, in the end, what I'm trying to say is should I buy the plants or use some from a lake? And should I wait for the rain to come although it hasn't for a week-ish, or should I fill up with the hose?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Make sure its legal to collect the plants and go for it...lol...native plants work great for outside spawning.....

Rainwater-its up to you on what you want to use, however, when it rains you are looking at some chemistry changes...but usually it doesn't cause problems with healthy fish when its small and gradual.....I like to try and start out with rainwater but with this drought we are in......really messed things up for me this year...but more the natural foods than anything else....really limited.....never thought I would miss skeeters...lol......

I would go ahead and get started even without rain..... 

I like to add lots of tannins to my outside spawn buckets-the water so dark you can barely see the fish and it seems to keep the water cooler along with the floating plants and then the decomp creates good microorganism for added fry food and food for the plants....

Dragonfly and damselfly nymps are the biggest problems-but the adult Bettas usually will take care of them when small...I never have lost an adult Betta to them but I have lost lots of fry and adult guppies.....

Finally we got rain.....at last....and it has cooled the water down to 86F from over 100F and now high humidity and hopefully skeeters......laffs.....


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Haha right this is one of the verry few moments we actually _want _mosquitos I'm thinking of riding my bike down to the lake tomorrow, this is the time when mosquitos come out :x My dad has verified that it is legal to get some plants, and I'll bring a net and pray for snails (crosses fingers).

Just to be 100% clear, do I introduce the male and the female at the same time? What happens if they're not compatible, as I've read that sometimes bettas can be picky with their mates!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

As long as you have plenty of live plants and a good volume of water....you want the container to be full...you don't have to do half full......it is actually better to have deeper water...the plants act as a natural divider and the dark tanned water helps to ease them...add lots of mosquito larva to start....when they gorge on larva....instinct tells them its time to reproduce....usually I like to add the females first for a day or two and let them feed on the larva and then the male-but feed him larva during this time too.....usually the females will demand to spawn right away and if he was fed larva he will be ready and start a nest the second he enters the water-be sure to acclimate him by adding the outside container water to the holding cup you have him in before you drop him in

Get the container ready first-add the tannins to start releasing and the plants and snails for at least a week and gather larva and drop in it to have it full of bugs....then the female...let her setup house and then the male.....


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

From what I heard, decaf green tea bags can be used as a tannin? Or am I wrong? Maybe it was just using as a stress reliever....

I had absolutely no idea that food also triggers a betta's instinct to reproduce! That's definitely new for me, but hey, being a beginner, I always learn a billion new things a day on this site. When you said


> the plants act as a natural divider


 does that mean I should just have all kinds of plants? And would I be able to add other hideouts such as caves, silk plants, etc...

One more: What if the male decides to turn on the female? Also, (well, two more) do you know whether he harms her less on the outdoor spawn?
Thanks OFL, I'd be lost without you!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

All kinds of floating plants...the more the better.....a mat or ball of plants in the bucket...I don't add anything artificial in my outside spawns....decaf green tea would give you the tannins but I would use oak leaf or IAL if you had that instead...lots of different triggers to spawn and food is a big one and after it rains the cool water will trigger a spawn a storm brewing will trigger a spawn.......

I don't normally see any damage in my outside spawns...but I don't see them in the house either.....proper conditioning, proper conditions/setup....go a long way.....


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

good luck with it!! i will think about having a female BF HM if you get one:-D
also i will like to see pics of the cuties X33


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks bettalover, but I think this spawn is going to be mostly VT's since its a dominant trait... My dads picking up the decaf green tea bags, as I don't have access to some IAL or dried oak leaves. Hopefully it will do. 

Conditioning still is neccassary, right? This is just a question because I will plump the female and male up with mosquito larvae while their in the bucket. As of now, I am feeding them both frozen bloodworms for nutrition and protein, also as conditioning.


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Update: The bucket is currently, but slowly, filling up with misquito larvae! (yay!) I have not picked up plants yet, I think I may buy them, as the lake I go to seems so yucky and I don't risk anything. Female has a big white belly full of eggs with a huge ovipositer, and Charlie's just bubblenesting like crazzy!

Again: would a large trash can work as a growout?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It should work fine....I would get it set up and ready no so it can start maturing...


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Uh-oh): When I placed the female(in her cup) into the bucket to start acclimating, she grew breeding bars, but started growing paler): I placed her back into her tank because I got worried..


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

someone told me to condition my pair with bloodworms for 2weeks wouldn't they get dropsy?? (i gonna breed a VT and HM)


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

@bettalover i suggest you start another thread to get more responses but I dont feed just bloodworms for 2 weeks there is more to conditioning then that, I ty to feed live food to if its available and I still feed pellets when conditioning too


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Ohh bad news  I put a thermometer in the spawning bucket outside and the temp read *88 degrees!* Great, so now what can I do? Do I have to wait later into the year because its so hot now? i dont know what to do  This is the hottest time of day for here, but for temps reaching that high, wouldn't that just cook the fry?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

My tank reached 88* once with no ill effects on the fry but remember I dont know how far your sticking the thermometer in the water the deeper the water the cooler it will be as you go down. You can also move it into the shade and that might help.


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay I tried to acclimate my female again, but she got super pale and clamped, I freaked out once again but her back in her tank. I'm afraid to put her in the bucket. The bucket is in the shade, but should I try later in the day when the water is considerably cooler, like her tank, so it won't be so dramatic for her? And Thanks for helping, I appreciate it!


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I have never spawned outside but like when you adding a new fish when the tank is dark I assume introducing her in the dark would be less stressful for her. Also I wouldnt keep moving her back and forth between tank and the spawning bucket it may cause more stress then just putting her in there and having her get used to it over a period of time.


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay, I'm going to try again at dusk, that gives her a good 4 & 1/2 hours to rest. I know it must be stressful, moving her back and forth, and I regret it . But I'm just afraid of her dying from temp. shock, because her tank is about 79 degrees.. SO like I said, I'm going to try later and hope that it cools down some


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I think doing it at dusk is your best bet and good luck!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

In my outside containers I use for spawning..the temp is over 100F for the better part of the day and here of late....it rarely goes down below 100F.....healthy fish can generally tolerate this and as long as you are using deep water so that the fish can move to cooler temp usually they will be fine....the slow gradual change in temp with healthy fish is usually tolerated......be sure your containers are NOT getting any sun or limited sun during the heat of the day...watch the fish for signs of stress and leave them in the water...by moving to and fro the inside outside can be more stressful on them than the temp itself......leave them outside and observe....if the fish is healthy it should be fine.....


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

Creat said:


> @bettalover i suggest you start another thread to get more responses but I dont feed just bloodworms for 2 weeks there is more to conditioning then that, I ty to feed live food to if its available and I still feed pellets when conditioning too


 sorry i interrupted :-( i was just thinking. 


i never really did any research on a outdoor spawning it sounds way easier where ever you are (s lol) i live in illnois and it is difficult with the weather changing and stuff ( am have to get a thermometer for this stuff) shouldnt you just leave a thermometer with no heater (sometimes when needed) since all-year round it stays summer over there? (AC on 24/7 just kidding) it is almost autumn here in about 5 weeks ( am keep on going into another topic!!! ) luckies you don't have dramatic weather changing so it will be easier for you's to breed betta's ( i also don't have a heater {=[)


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

ok thanks for helping me with my conditioning problems ( i will leave you alone now)...


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Hmm I am also considering eventually spawning some fry here. I may be a noobie but I am thinking long term. I was thinking I would have to breed indoors but from what I am reading here it may be possible for me to spawn outdoors. I live in Central Oregon, we are a high desert. Though we do get rainfall in the summer, and winter. This year was very wet.
The days here can get into the 100s, and drop into the 40-50s at night. So do you think it would be doable here OFL? I wouldn't be doing it this year at least outdoors. I may Breed my VT with a Wildtype this winter indoor. (winter temps fall into the negatives)

One thing that caught my eye is the fact you told one of the people here to go down to the lake to harvest plants... I have some lakes, and rivers around here. So would it be alright for me to harvest some natural plants? Wouldn't you want to QT them for a time? 
I am considering doing this for some of my indoor betta tanks? Any thoughts?


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

betta lover1507 said:


> ok thanks for helping me with my conditioning problems ( i will leave you alone now)...


Bah I dont mean to make you feel bad I just wanted you to be able to get more responses is all  cause I though you were just asking about conditioning 

and I have the same issue I live in western wa where we dont have good temps to breed outdoors so i have started going out and collecting from ponds and rivers I trust with all sorts of mico organisms and plants and bringing them indoors to incorporate into my spawns so far I am getting very positive results. You want to be careful though about introduce diseases and bad things like dragon fly nymphs when doing this I usually collect from area's that have no fish so I dont worry about disease transfer. But I like to add them immediately cause of all the yummy bugs the betta like to pick off of them


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## betta lover1507 (Aug 6, 2011)

like what kind of plants ?? well i have little lakes and stuff here but they are full of diseases and there is no disease-free water here (besides my sink) since where my place is a polluted area nothing safe as much to get micro organisms from ponds and stuff . so i can't do that plant thingy but on betta talk they said you could get a gallon jar filled with water and put dried-grass and plants in it which am doing so that is my savior right now since no where cares for micro worms around where i live i should buy hikari first bites (is that good?) also i have no breeders ANYWHERE around me where to get a good disease-free water with plants.


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

I have plenty of rivers and lakes, though non are truly fish free. So I am a little concerned about just going out an harvesting plants. But I am also wanting to go collect mosquito larva...if I can find any -_-


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## crezelda (Dec 17, 2010)

i'm getting at least one of the benifits of outdoor keeping: mosquitos >.<

no screens on windows= bit= hopefully the skeeters take a go at my tanks.


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

ah, well were I am at I don't have mosquito close enough to me. There may be some near the river, lakes, and down in the canyon at the golf course.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

You can collect live food from the areas and wash them off first before feeding them and you should be safe live food really get spawning going. If you cant do anything feeding live food is the best its really hard for me to get my fish to spawn, comparatively, when feed frozen foods. 
I'm just lucky cause my friend owns a ponds and a creek/ spring on her land that are pesticide and fertilizer free plus fish free. Except for the occasional salmon spawn during the right season.


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Ah very nice Creat, lucky you. The rivers and lakes I have around here are pesticide free. We go down and catch cray fish to eat once in awhile. hmmmm would my boys like chunks or crayfish meat?
Yeah I will have to go with frozen food for my first spawning. I am planning on doing it this winter if I have time and it get beyond cold here lol. Negative temps and can have 3 feet of snow on the ground.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

Your boys might like it lol I wold try it one of my old boys loved chocolate lol


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Is chocolate good for them


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't recommend feeding your fish chocolate.....

Crayfish-chop its tail off and chop/mash the meat-personally-I would steam it first to kill any parasites before I fed it to the Betta....but they should love it......no chocolate thou....lol.....add in a bit of fresh crushed garlic and blanched spinach and mash it all together...great homemade food for fish.....

Before you collect native plants...check- your local regulations and laws in your area.......and make sure it is legal........

You should have a government web-site that you can go to and check the regs/laws and they usually will have a list with pic of the native aquatic plants too....

There are always risk with using native collected items-however, QT, rinsing...etc.....will usually take care of most problems non-related to pesticide and some pollution.....just use a little common sense in most cases....lol....power of observation...

And remember-once you remove native aquatic life (plants or animals).....and it came into contact with tropical fish/water...it *CAN NOT* be returned to the native habitat or you can risk destroying the ecosystem from tropical pathogens....... .same with anything in your tropical tanks....it can't be released into the native ecosystem....
Properly depose of it-by bury, burn or wrap in paper and throw in the trash

Keep our ecosystem safe.......


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks for the tips OFL. I have some boiled cray fish frozen still in the shell that I caught earlier in the summer and froze to keep them good till I had enough for a big meal. I will have to try that food mixture. 

I will of course check regulation if it is okay to take things, I was just curious if it was safe for the fish to do so.


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## crezelda (Dec 17, 2010)

i wonder if i should leave a bucket of treated water outside to age and collect skeeter babies. im not breeding but i like to give treats


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

I leave still water outside and never get larva -_-


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## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Since Charlie's tail was torn up, I took them out and am reconditioning them. I checked on Charlie and Lulu just now, and I see a decent sized bubblenest Lulu created in her tank with eggs. I know she's going to eat them though, theyre infertile anyways. Does this mean if I had left them in the bucket they would've spawned? Arrrgh! I checked on Charlie and parts of his tail were laying on the bottom  Lulu keeps releasing eggs and eating, I feel like she's wasting eggs ):


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Females make eggs non-stop.....in the spawns I keep the female long term...about every 3-4 days I will see a new nest of eggs....some females are not suited for spawning...

If you add some organic matter to your mosquito larva bucket that will help......if your area is going through a drought and you have low humidity this will affect mosquito population and larva production......


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Amphibianite said:


> I leave still water outside and never get larva -_-


Is the water clear and clean? .... you don't want mosqs in such water anyway because Dengue fever mosq nests in such water. Try making the water dark by adding some dead leaves and some plants - this usually works.

I don't know about droughts affecting mosq population in your area. But where I'm at, they multiply during the dry seasons.


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

I live in a high desert there are not many mosqiutos in my portion of the area anyway. Some people may have them in man made ponds, and some down in the canyon at the golf course. None of them get to where I live. I maybe see 3 mosquito a year at my house if that.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I never thought much about how the humidity affect mosquito...we just have always had them...some years more than others and often year around unless we had snow/ice...even in the winter/colder months I would still find larva in standing water...not many but some.....this year we have been in a drought following a really dry winter, dryer than normal spring and now a summer drought-topped off by higher than normal temps...going into 50+ days of over 103F and some days as high as 115F.......the mosquito and larva population has dropped and the local newspaper has even written about it several times-stating that the humidity is a factor for the adults to function...too dry air and they can't fly-understand, this is for the mosquito in my area-it may be different for other species of mosquito and locations-I am sure they adapt in regards to location/environment/habitat...etc.......
I never knew this....honestly, never thought much about it....lol......we either had skeeter or we didn't.......personally-I could do without them but a lot of creatures depend on them as a food source and life cycle....The chain of life...food chain...every things needs each other in some form...I just thought it was interesting in how humidity can affect the skeeter population in my area.....and answered my question to why I had limited larva...good thing I get other aquatic critters that the Betta fry can feed on....most I have no idea what they are.....but the fry eat them, grow and develop without any issues......


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## Amphibianite (Aug 6, 2011)

Haha OFL, it really is fascinating to see how the slightest change in environment can have drastic effects on the flora and fauna of an area. I agree I used to hate mosquitoes with a passion, I still sorta do. BUT like flies they play a part in nature and are needed.


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