# Is it really that bad?



## rissah (Aug 12, 2012)

Okay, I know most people on here will say "you betta needs to be kept in at least a 2 gallon tank ect..." But my whole thing, is it really bad to keep them in a bowl that is 1-1.5 gallons?

I've had two Bettas before, one male and the other female, both common VTs from Wal-Mart of all places. I kept both in I want to say 1.5 bowls, maybe 2, and both lived for several years. Neither had a heater, water conditioner (I let their water sit for at least 24 hours) or anything. I just put stones from Dollar Tree and a fake plant in there with them. I changed their water about 2-3 times a week and fed them once a day.


This topic is not meant to start a war, it's merely to discuss opinions, success stories and the like. I do not want this to turn into a flame war or a post for bashing other members.

Please keep in mind, when I did the above, I was young and knew next to nothing about keeping Bettas or their "requirements."


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## mursey (May 9, 2012)

I really don't like it when someone keeps a betta in less than .. say. . 2.5 gallons, or at least 2. I do have one guy in a 2.5 rectangular (long) tank but he's tiny and has swim bladder problems.

I guess if you were my friend asking my opinion I would say this:

1.)Is it _really _that much more trouble for you to buy a 2 gallon or bigger? 

2.)The bigger aquarium kits are not even necessarily more expensive than the smaller ones sometimes. And you will have to change the water less if you go bigger, especially with a filter.

3.)Why get a pet so you can just create a situation where he "survives" but cannot "thrive"? What is the point? Maybe pets are not for you, then. 

4.) You will get much more enjoyment out of seeing a healthy happy fish than one that is bored, depressed, cold, etc. Unhappy or unhealthy pets are never as active or fun to have. They just sort of sit there.

(None of this was said in my head in a rude tone of voice, so don't think I am getting personal or anything. These are just honestly what I would say, and I do understand that sometimes people just don't know better. I didn't at first, either)


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## rissah (Aug 12, 2012)

1. I cannot say if it would be trouble, but rater perhaps it did not cross one's mind?

2. This is true, but not always the case; in some situations just a couple of dollars can make or break a person. It is true you may have to change the water less, but you have to worry about keeping your filter working and such, and honestly it is much easier to clean a small bowl than a good sized tank.

3. How do you know it's not thriving? That's almost saying someone who doesn't have a large spacious yard for their dog is just letting it survive, and not thrive in a large yard.

4. Again, how do you know they are unhappy (speaking on personal experince) Both of my Bettas were fairly active

I did not take this is as you being rude at all, I expected something at least like this. I myself am neither for nor against keeping a fish in a bowl. If you think about it, that's how people fist started keeping fish before tanks were even developed, and just like everything in life; there are both good and bad things that come with it.


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

I keep my bettas in a 1 and a half gallon split tank. I do use water conditioner, but nothing else, I dont have a filter or a heater. I love my bettas 100%. There are my babies <3


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## megaredize (May 21, 2012)

i honestly wouldnt because seeing my new rescue in a 1 gallon he looks fine in it but hes sooo small hes not full grown. if i had one of my others bettas in it it would drive me nuts watching them swim in such a small space mind you all my bettas have 5 gallons. Plus i like have a cycled tank so i only have to do water changes once a week and do maintenence on the filters. having to do frequent water changes on my rescue is something i wouldnt want to do permantely. but if your willing to clean the smaller tank weekly and do all the water changes then so be it. i only get mad if i see someone with a 1 gallon who does only like 1 water change a week. at that point its not good and can harm the betta


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

MusicArtBettas said:


> I keep my bettas in a 1 and a half gallon split tank. I do use water conditioner, but nothing else, I dont have a filter or a heater. I love my bettas 100%. There are my babies <3


Did you do your research? You can't divide any tank less than a 5 gallon tank. IMO, a 1 gallon tank is already small enough for a Betta. Let alone 2. I highly suggest to get another tank for both of them that's bigger. If they're your "babies" you need to start taking better care of them, get a heater, (Unless you have one) and a thermometer. (Unless you have one) If you really LOVE them, you need to start taking better care of them. :shake:


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> Did you do your research? You can't divide any tank less than a 5 gallon tank. IMO, a 1 gallon tank is already small enough for a Betta. Let alone 2. I highly suggest to get another tank for both of them that's bigger. If they're your "babies" you need to start taking better care of them, get a heater, (Unless you have one) and a thermometer. (Unless you have one) If you really LOVE them, you need to start taking better care of them. :shake:


 Well, they are active.. and I dont see abything wrong? I asked a betta fish breeder, and they said I dont need any of that except water conditioner. Plus, please do not tell me , that they arnt really my babies or I dont really love them, cause I do. /:


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I know you love them, I was just stating a fact. Sorry if I was blunt.  Ammonia would build up too quickly in there and well, they get sick easily. Well, that breeder was wrong. When was your last water change? And Bettas can hide their sicknesses by still acting active. But I presume that it's a new setup.


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, I change and clean the tank every week and the new setup is a month old. I feel as if they will live long. I worked really hard to get them soo...


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## megaredize (May 21, 2012)

@MusicArtBettas it would be best if you separated them, you could take that divider out and have that tank for one and then buy another identical tank and have that for the other. so you still have smaller tanks that will be easy for you too care for. i think with a tank this size 1 100% water change and clean once a week then two 50% water changes in the week is a good cleaning plan. A heater would benefit them greatly, they will live even longer. I have a 8 watt heater in my 1 gallon quarantine tank so it can be done. you just also need a thermometer to make sure the heat is stable. thermometer are very cheap. and i know those 1 gallons are fairly inexpensive. If you choose not to separate them i would encourage you to do more water changes during the week


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

If you insist... But remember, your Bettas don't like it. They want more room to swim. They're surviving but maybe not thriving. What's the temperature of the tank?


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks but... My parents will not let me.. I already tried


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

And its 79 degrees right now,


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## Kenny G (Jun 9, 2012)

In my opinion I think a 1.5 gallon tank is large enough for 1 betta. In the beginning when I got my first betta I read on numerous sites that the general rule of thumb was 1 gallon per inch of each fish. I do believe its to small for 2 betta's. There also nothing to suggest that having a larger tank makes you take betta care of your betta. Lets face it even people with larger tanks don't always treat their pets the way they should. I have read many posts in this forum and cannot ever find fault with a college student, school kid, elderly person living in assisted living facility for keeping a betta in a 1 gallon tank. If you are doing your best to properly care for and treat your betta I feel that's all that matters. Yes some will say spend a few dollars more and get a bigger tank but most people will get what they can afford. Yes some will say if you cannot afford a bigger tank you should not get a betta. At the end of the day who cares? If you care for your pet and give it a good home I'm happy for you. I'd rather see a betta in a loving home with someone who cares for them rather than a tiny bowl in a pet store swimming in their own waste.


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

@KennyG I really appriciate it. Thank you for everyone who gave me advice! Once we get a bigger house, and I get my own room, I will be getting a new tank. A bugger one


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

One of the most important things for me is a consistent source of heat. Bettas are tropical fish, and there is no getting around that. I notice a massive difference between the health, colour and activity level of my fish when I have a heater malfunction or forget to plug one back in. 

Fluctuating temperatures can cause problems like ich and velvet, and water temperature is important in regards to things like digestion of food. Just because your thermometer reads 79 degrees Fahrenheit doesn't necessarily mean it remains that temperature consistently throughout the day. 

Clean water and adequate space are also important. Fatty liver disease is a problem in bettas that are fed too rich a diet, and bettas are quite an active fish once given more than a few cupfuls of water to move about in. 

Personally, I think there is no real reason for a betta to be housed in a container less than 1 gallon if you are the average hobbyist. If you do not have the funds to provide at least the basic essentials (and yes in most places a heater is a basic essential) I feel you should not purchase a betta. You would not purchase a dog if you could not afford its care so why are fish any different?


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

@littlebettafish But I think itss fine. So , .. If I clean it feed it, treat it with bloodworms, spoil it. Then why does a tank matter?


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

My personal opinions here....

I will not keep a betta in a tank smaller than 2 gallons. The 2 gals that I have are hospital tanks. The smallest tank that always has a betta in it that we own is a 3.5 gal which houses 1 male pet betta.
All of my breeding males are in divided 10 gal tanks except my yellow dragon HMPK who has a 5 gal. I have 2 females who each have a 10 gal tank.

A heater is needed. The amount the temperature changes during the night is bad for your fish. They are tropical and so NEED warmer temps. If you were told that they do not, that person was badly misinformed. Fall and winter are on their way here in the US. Not having a heater could be very bad for your fish once that happens. Especially in states that are known for colder winters.

Water conditioner is a must. Leaving water to sit isn't enough. I use Prime. Lasts quite a long time despite all my tanks. I use it in every one of them. Along with proper water changes, this helps keep my fish healthy. I change water at least 2 times a week if my hospital tanks are empty and every day if I happen to have a fish in a hospital tank. Ammonia builds up quickly and harms your fish.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Do you know your water parameters in regards to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Can you ensure your water isn't fluctuating by more than a few degrees each way over the course of 24 hours? 

Those are the two most important questions for me in regards to anyone who owns a betta. Unless you have a test kit you are essentially in the dark in regards to the quality of your water. All you have to go on is the behaviour of your fish, and bettas are usually hardy enough they can go for quite a while living in poor conditions. That is why they can be put into small containers and bowls. 

I have no issue with a betta being housed in a 4L/1 gallon tank. That to me is the absolute minimum for long-term housing. Fatty liver disease is an issue in fish that are inactive and overfed, and in anything under 1 gallon there is really not enough swimming space, particularly once you add gravel and decorations.

While your methods may work, this is just my experience in keeping bettas. It's just you do need to be mindful that heat, clean water and a certain level of activity are all very important aspects of proper betta husbandry.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

rissah said:


> Okay, I know most people on here will say "you betta needs to be kept in at least a 2 gallon tank ect..." But my whole thing, is it really bad to keep them in a bowl that is 1-1.5 gallons?
> 
> I've had two Bettas before, one male and the other female, both common VTs from Wal-Mart of all places. I kept both in I want to say 1.5 bowls, maybe 2, and both lived for several years. Neither had a heater, water conditioner (I let their water sit for at least 24 hours) or anything. I just put stones from Dollar Tree and a fake plant in there with them. I changed their water about 2-3 times a week and fed them once a day.
> 
> ...


I feel that 2.5 gallons or more is _ideal _but anything less than 1 gallon is ridiculous. So 1 gallon is the absolute minimum I will endorse.

I _do _in fact believe heaters are necessary. Unless of course you keep your house set to 80 degrees _all year long. _

Only a few years ago when I was 11 I got my first betta (I'm 15 now)
I pretty much provided the worst care because I wasn't properly educated on the subject of betta keeping. My poor betta lived in a 1/2 gallon tank, unheated in our 72 degree house, I only fed him the lowest quiality flakes once a day and I only changed the water 100% once a week. What a big improvement- now I have a female betta alone in a 10 gallon tank, heated to 80 degrees, she is fed high quality pellets twice a day and I do a 50% weekly water change since the tank is cycled.

I have learned a lot from this website. I do know some people come off a bit rude when endorsing better homes for bettas, but deep down all they want to do is ensure another betta has a good life.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

MusicArtBettas said:


> @littlebettafish But I think itss fine. So , .. If I clean it feed it, treat it with bloodworms, spoil it. Then why does a tank matter?


sorry if this is rude, but i am just going to flat out say it

*your tank is WAY to small for dividing, let done one betta fish. They are living in their own poop for goodness sake! Thats like us living in a closet for our whole life. Also, a heater will benefit them greatly.*:-D


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

^

woops! Sorry for the large font everyone, it was a typo! ;/


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

MusicArtBettas said:


> @littlebettafish But I think itss fine. So , .. If I clean it feed it, treat it with bloodworms, spoil it. Then why does a tank matter?


I think proper waters changes defenitely signal good care.
Maybe it is just me, but I dont quite think you can spoil a betta.

I dont even think my betta is spoiled, and she lives in a 10 gal heated tank, gets frozen bloodworms once a week... if she were in the wild she would have miles of water to swim through so 10 gallons IMO isnt even spoiling.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

^
+1

My betta gets a varied diet, water changes twice a week, has 7 silk plants, a cave, a betta hammock, a filter, a heater, AND lives in a 10 GALLON tank by HIMSELF.---maybe thats spoiling? well, thats just my opinion...



XD


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

MyRainbowBettaFish said:


> ^
> +1
> 
> My betta gets a varied diet, water changes twice a week, has 7 silk plants, a cave, a betta hammock, a filter, a heater, AND lives in a 10 GALLON tank by HIMSELF.---maybe thats spoiling? well, thats just my opinion...
> ...


ahaha good care, indeed. Like you said, everyone has their own opinion but personally I dont think you can spoil a betta


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

Listen, im tired of being told that I am not a goid betta owner, my bettas are fine, I am proud of myself fir taking such good care of them, so.i dont really care what anyone says. My bettas are my babies. At least I spoil then with nloodworms every once in awhile, at least I clean the tank weekly and feed them twice a day. At least I love them, like I would love a dog. So all of you pretige amazing betta caretakers who have 2000 gallon tanks, congrats. But I am a happy go lucky owner with mine. At least I have a passion for bettas. I am tired of getting corrected. Good day to you all.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Im sorry. I wasnt trying to make you feel bad, and i wasnt trying to flaunt my tank's size. I was just saying that.. nevermind.:|


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

You really should invest in a water test kit at a minimum. It's fine if you want to keep your two fish in that tank as no one can change your opinion on that. However, you cannot see ammonia and you cannot see nitrite and only doing water changes once a week is not going to be enough on a tank that size. 

Constant exposure to a level of ammonia only .25ppm can cause all sorts of issues that may not be apparent at first but can result in premature death or ailments such as fin rot. 

So please do at least purchase a liquid test kit for ammonia. They are pretty cheap and water quality is so so important to the health of any fish.


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

So water conditioner dosnt take amonnia and nitrite out of the water?


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

MusicArtBettas said:


> So water conditioner dosnt take amonnia and nitrite out of the water?


no. you can get water conditioner like sea chem prime that detoxifies ammonia, but doesnt remove it. you have to redose it every 48 hours if your tank isnt cycled.. It does remove nitrite & nitrate I believe.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Ammonia continues to be put into the water by your fish. They give it off as a form of waste. Since you have two in your tank, you should be changing your water much more often. It would be best to get them each their own tank, but in the mean time... Increased water changes would help them live longer healthier lives. ^_^


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## MusicArtBettas (Aug 13, 2012)

I really wish I could have a tank like you guys... Im sorry for getting all snipy. I just wish I could...


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

No, only water changes are capable of removing ammonia and nitrites in a tank with no live plants. Prime converts ammonia into ammonium which is less harmful but still not ideal to expose your fish to for any longer than necessary. 

If you could find some duckweed and have a 6500-10000K light over your tank, you could remove at least some of the ammonia from your tank that way. However, your duckweed would need to be healthy and growing for that to be possible. I use duckweed on most of my more heavily stocked tanks, and it is very good at sucking up nutrients. Even then you would still need to do regular water changes.

I just think you do need to test your water when you have a set-up like yours, as it is so easy for things to go wrong very quickly when you are working with such a small volume of water. 

I prefer to have my own test kit as I find most stores do not know what the heck they are talking about in regards to water chemistry. 

I would definitely invest in some Seachem Prime. It lasts forever because you only need a very small amount and it does give you some breathing space.

My no was referring to your post about ammonia/nitrite. Someone posted in between.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Sorry, kinda thought there were only 3 pages. :l Plants help with ammonia and nitrite.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Since you don't have the room right now for larger tanks, just do what you can in other areas.
Seachem Prime is a wonderful water conditioner. It takes very little to condition the water and so it lasts quite a long time. With all my tanks plus water change schedule and the occasional emergency water change/sick fish, my little bottle has lasted for over 5 months and is still going. I love it.

You could also try a live low light plant to help a little. I don't use any special lighting in my 5 gal and have had anubias plants do fantastically in it. It's where I grow them out for my other tanks now.

Keep up with water changes and keep the temperature pretty stable. Both of those along with a good diet will do wonders for your fish.


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## megaredize (May 21, 2012)

i doubt it removes nitrite and nitrate those ive always heard can only come out by water changes, which is why everyone is stressing the fact that smaller tanks need a lot of water changes.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

megaredize said:


> i doubt it removes nitrite and nitrate those ive always heard can only come out by water changes, which is why everyone is stressing the fact that smaller tanks need a lot of water changes.


youre right, i just read the bottle. it detoxifies.


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

The smallest tank I have is a one gallon, but when I get more money I a buying a 2 gallon for him


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## mursey (May 9, 2012)

rissah said:


> 1. I cannot say if it would be trouble, but rater perhaps it did not cross one's mind?
> 
> 2. This is true, but not always the case; in some situations just a couple of dollars can make or break a person. It is true you may have to change the water less, but you have to worry about keeping your filter working and such, and honestly it is much easier to clean a small bowl than a good sized tank.
> 
> ...



Kind of seems like you didn't really want opinions after all and you've already decided what you think and you're rationalizing out loud about what you want to be true. You want to keep a betta in a small bowl .. . so go ahead and do it, no one is stopping you. Why are you asking us for opinions if you already know you disagree with anything other than what you are already wanting to do? 

And people _used_ to do a _lot _of things in the past we improved on. Seems silly to say "we used to not have technology/new and improved ideas, so let's forget we have it even though it makes a thing better"


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

As long as you do allot of water changes heat it.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

All my daughter wants in this world is a dog. There's several reasons why I have to say 'no' to that - one is that I simply could not afford a vet bill if the cat and dog got sick at the same time. I could pay only one or the other.. 

It's hard to take good care of our pets on this budget - but we do without - pizza, fancy brand things, expensive internet, all kinds of stuff - to make sure the animals and fish get what they need because pets are more important to us than stuff.

I guess I'm leading up to saying that I don't understand parents who will allow a child a pet and then deny them what they need to take basic care of that pet. So they should do without pizza one week, maybe cut down cigarettes, buy homebrand stuff for a while, so they can buy the kid a tank/heater/good fish food... jeez, it's not the end of the world to give your kid what they need for their pet. Or why let them have it in the first place?? It's more damaging to all concerned to NOT allow proper care. 

That said, whether or not a fish can be kept adequately in under a gallon is always going to be highly contentious issue. Even so, in my observation, it is the people yelling six ways to Sunday that under a gallon is just fine whom I very often see shortly after, posting in the sick fish forum... 

It isn't fair that the original poster was permitted a pet, only to be denied what he/she needs to take ideal care of it. I bet you're doing what you can to make sure your fish is doing fine.

However, I think posting threads that cannot be anything but a source of divided opinion and kneejerk reactions is probably not a great idea. Better to ask "Hey, this is my situation, I cannot presently change that, so how can do my best with what I have?"

I guarantee more positive reactions. Less sour feelings.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

^

+1 to Aus!

That was very well put! Great job!


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## Alcemistnv (Jan 29, 2012)

+1 to aus

I do very much dislike it when a parent buys a pet for children and then won't buy anything else for said pet unless its food. Really early in my life we used to find loose change in the house and uses it to buy dinner for the day. But we've had pets and did the best we could for them, no matter the cost.

f a child insists on getting a pet, and swears they will do anything it buy anything it needs, I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust that you keep your promise. Especially a betta. I don't think its that hard to look up the proper care for a betta, especially with the internet at ones disposal. 

But on the original topic, I don't mind tank sizes as long as they are real tanks and give at least 1 gallon for each betta. The tank has to be cleaned often though foe me to accept it though. As for divides tanks, is say a minimum of 5 gallons. 

I think that some people just want lots of bettas so they buy small, cheap tanks, or they get vases and such.
I don't believe that behavior is a kind gesture at all to an animal
I waited 6 months for betta #2 and I waited until I had everything hat would make him comfortable. I had to wait til I had the extra money for a new tank because k knew he'd be more comfortable in 2.5 gallons than a 1 gallon. 

All in all, I think it depends on the owner and fish. 
But if you're not willing to care for it properly amd/or ignore its general health/ needs, you don't deserve it.


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