# Hmpk x hmpk p0



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

My experience in breeding is slim to none my first time was when I was in 7th grade with only 1 fry surviving. Second time was 15 years later with no success got the female to drop the eggs and the male picked them up to put in the bubble nest, but the male ate the eggs don't know what I did wrong there. Now this is my third time and hopefully not the last this is a different pair my goal is to learn and just see what I get.

The male betta is from ebay bettararities and the female betta is from http://bettafishstore.com/ I'm assuming they are decent blood lines so I hope i'm not starting from BLAH....... I'm hoping for HMPK of unknown colors... then during the F4 or F5 I will introduce something else don't know yet any suggestions ?

Equipment: 5 Gallon Plastic tub, heater, Indian Almond leaves,plants and Styrofoam cup cut in half

Brine shrimp hatching unit cut 1 gallon jug with air pump

Food: NLS pellets and dried tubifex 
Fry: infusoria and brine shrimp

Male


Female


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Any suggestion or tips would be greatly appreciated and any predictions of the frys ?


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm also not promoting any of the places where I got the bettas from also just thought you guys wanted to know


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

I have no idea what they will produce but you have beautiful fish selected


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

I have just placed the female and the male together. They are just chasing each other around no nipping yet so this is giving me high hopes that this wont be a violent spawn. I will provide pictures once the deed is done.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Good luck with your pair, they have beautiful colouring, especially the female. I love that thicker scaling over what I suppose would be called a cellophane base.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

This morning I checked on my bettas they were moving around. The male would run up and flare at the female then straight back to the nest. I thought everything was going as planned. I just received a text from my girlfriend that the female is not moving and is at the bottom of the tank laying motionless. I instructed her not to touch the female until I got back home. I'm writing this post between my psychology and sociology class as my heart is sinking deeper and deeper into depression now just filled anger, confusion, and well just more anger. What did I do right in 7th grade that I could not replicate now as a adult ? I'm still hopeful that maybe just maybe my girlfriend was just seeing things but I will give you guys the update once I get home !!!!!!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

The sickest joke that I have ever heard.. Got home and she is fine. The deed is done !!! got eggs woot woot


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

oh man XD congrats on your eggs! Can't wait for fry!!!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

This morning when I woke up and I peak into the tank. I Saw what seems like little white dots failing from the bubble nest. The male in a frenzy zipping up and down grabbing multiple frys at a time. Spitting it at the bubble nest just to have the same one fall back down. It was neat to watch, but sadly my camera was out of battery and my cable is lost. My new cable will be coming in this Friday so in theory I should have pictures and a small clip of the frys free swimming !!!!


----------



## Blackstar00 (Apr 21, 2015)

That's a really nice pair  I hope that the fry grow up strong and healthy.
BTW I also go on ebay now and then and the same seller that you bought your boy from had the one in my Avatar pic for bid. It's $75 right now and I had to use all my strength to keep myself from buying him. I got as far as the check out page where it asked for my card number :'(


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks I sure hope they grow up strong and healthy. Right now the frys are already free swimming well some of them are just laying at the bottom. My infusoria that I started a week ago does not look very good it is just cloudy water LOL. Don't know what i did wrong but it might be to late to start another culture. I'm hope that the egg yolk will do the trick. When do you guys think will be the best time to feed the frys so I can start the hatching process ? 1 week or 2 ? or should I start right away ?


----------



## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

I feed them as soon as they swim horizontally (free swimming)


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Here are is a picture free swimming for 2 days now.









Am I about to lose everything ??????


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

The water is that color because of the indian almond leaves and I just hook up the sponge filter today. Do you guys suggest investing in a few snails ?


----------



## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

Maybe one or two depending on tNk size, but remember they also produce a lot of poo. Do you have something like stress zyme (liquid bacteria in a bottle) that can kickstat the growth of bacteria in your sponge filter? That will help along with live plants that will utilise they nitrates. 

I also did water changes soon after they hatched. You have to be super careful both removing waste/water and especially adding water. It needs to be the same temperature and needs to be added veeeerrrrryyyyyy slowly. I used a poor man's drip to add the new water in drop by drop.

I am wondering if you could be overfeeding. It's tricky in the beginning since only some fry eat and how much food needs to go in.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

After 1 solid week of growing I have decided to do a partial water change. Next week when I have more time I will be moving them into a 25 gallon plastic tub. I will also be doing more frequent water changes. I'm hoping the new space would give the fry the room to grow. Any tips and would be greatly appreciated !!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

I have a question how should I transfer the fry to the bigger tank netting or siphon ?


----------



## Revosok (Aug 11, 2015)

Nice log so far! Can you please post more pics of the female though? She looks really cool, but I can't see her well in the photo.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

There you go i'm glad you like the log !!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Shes getting full again


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

she is so beautiful! I can't wait to see how the spawn turns out.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Here is my weekly update on the fry. The pictures do them no justice as they are growing and I see a big difference every week.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Weekly progress pictures these will be the 3 week progress


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

cuties  it will be awesome watching them grow


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow, I can really see how they're growing!


----------



## Akkikumar (Aug 8, 2015)

Don't move Fry's now, let them grow n become strong
After 3 weeks to 4 weeks of age you can move them to grow out tank


----------



## savagebeautymnl (Apr 16, 2015)

Your pair is gorgeous, such unusual coloration! And your girlfriend's got a mean streak. ;p Congrats on the little ones!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks for the advice Akkikumar and yes Savagebeautymnl she kinda wild sometimes .. she just brought home a stray cat that I had to secretly help escape.... 

here are the new pics weekly updates 












Took these on my phone so quality might suffer a little or improve depends on how you look at it.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

I do have snails also. While cleaning the tank I discover i'm also raising baby snails..... Ramshorn and Nerite snail.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Been busy so i've been slacking on the water change only been doing it every third day when I use to do it every other day 30-40%

I hope you guys enjoy!


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

so many babies!!!


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

That's still a lot of work!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

The growth is real


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Some of them are showing color black and red. Some with white bodies like their father.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

The size is extra small to some big monsters. I tried the daily water change and I have seen an amazing difference. The big ones get bigger and the small ones stay small.....


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

The little ones will have a better chance of catching up if you separate them from the bigger ones. Though I think a lot of breeders just cull the runts. How many babies do you have?


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

To tell you the truth, I really don't know I have never tried counting them because there are just to many and i have killed a few on accident during water changes. I will separate them once I get home


----------



## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

I can't wait to see these babies grow and change colors. How exciting!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

I hope I get some good bettas that I can enter into the November show for IBC !!!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Been doing daily water changes in hopes of accelerating the growing process. I think its hard to see it weekly but I think next we will all see a big difference !!!


----------



## Blackstar00 (Apr 21, 2015)

I think this is the most successful spawn I've seen around. Congratulations! did you ever end up separating the smaller fry from the big ones?


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

No I didn't, but I did started culling. As of right now I have started with the SBD and bent spines I don't have any that are missing their ventral fins. I didn't feed any microworms untill 2 week and in first two weeks all I fed them was infusoria might be the reason why. I also kept my tanks sorta clean I don't go more then 3 days without any water changes. Here are some reasons why I haven't separated the small from the big reason 1 I only have one10 gallon tank and the second is that I'm just to lazy to do water changes on 2 tanks daily..... I have untill November so i'm hope in 1 month they can grow enough to make it to the IBC show... crossing fingers...


----------



## Blackstar00 (Apr 21, 2015)

Well good luck =D it'll be great if they do and you could show them.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Today I woke up and found 4 of my precious babies floating on its side so I quickly got them out and toss them. I think my daily water changes is causing to much stress..... 3 of the middle size and 1 small... I assume its the water changes of you guys have any ideas what it could be please let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Missinasworld (Aug 26, 2015)

FishMemory said:


> Today I woke up and found 4 of my precious babies floating on its side so I quickly got them out and toss them. I think my daily water changes is causing to much stress..... 3 of the middle size and 1 small... I assume its the water changes of you guys have any ideas what it could be please let me know what you guys think.


never fun to find your babies dead in the tank. I recently had a similar issue, no idea on cause, but I can tell you that I do daily water changes and know it was Not the water changes. I age my water for the fry tanks for at least 24hours and then add it very slowly, over 1 to 1.5hrs back into the tank with an air hose, this way the tank heater has a chance to keep the new water warm and the fry can acclimate to the new clean water. Did you check your water parameters and make sure that the levels were all ok? Mine were all within normal parameters...because that was my first thought. my 2nd thought was maybe my fry picked something up from the least killiefish I put in their tank, but could not find any parasites or fungus or anything-but I did treat them for parasites anyways. 
I wish you luck and hope that no more of your babies randomly die off.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you Missinasworld I skipped on yesterdays water changed... for that fear but its nice to hear that you do dailies also and have no problems. I age my water for at least 24hrs I also add in the conditioner. I use a half inch hose to siphon out water and in. I heat up the water that is going to go in with an extra water heater for at least 6 hrs before going I add the water in. nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia are all close to nothing.... Today I went to the pet shop with my concerns they just told me to wait it out and see if anything else happens which. I was thinking so this must be how parents feel like LOL.... I did pick up some Seachem prime conditioner. I don't know if this is any better then the store brand ....


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

They are becoming monsters !!!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh man you must be going through ridiculous amounts of food. What are you feeding now?


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Yeah I am going through a huge amounts food right now I'm feeding them live blood worms. The bettas are getting big so I'm going to continue on stuffing them.


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Most are multi color white,black,and red. Things might change in the next few weeks. Nvm cant count rays yet...


----------



## MissLibby (Jul 8, 2015)

They almost look like platys!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Coming out how I wanted !!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)




----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Fat and happy


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Haha, look at them all! FOOOD!


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

beautiful!


----------



## ZacharyP (Oct 23, 2015)

Oh wow.Where will you be selling these? They look amazing. Super healthy


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi ZacharyP, I will be selling these on the forums, aquabid, and ebay. This forums will get first picks because of the community here has been instrumental in this spawn. I will post more pictures of the betta in their own jar. Almost all of the bettas are multi color and a few butterfly which does not surprise me because the mother and father has the "koi gene" and both are dragon scales. About 80% of the spawn shows "dragon scales".


----------



## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

There's so many!

Congratulations, the parents and fry are gorgeous!


----------



## MissLibby (Jul 8, 2015)

Whoa! lots of fishies!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

tell me what you guys think so far


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Honest opinion be harsh!! they just ate so they are fat


----------



## Crash (Jul 19, 2015)

I quite like the second one especially, the lavender scaling is beautiful!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks !! These are almost 4 months old I have more, but once I put them in the jar they get faded...


----------



## NoNovice969 (Feb 10, 2015)

So I've just read through weeks of pretty great progress I must say. They're growing very well and looking extremely healthy. Looks to me like you've got all the correct materials and everything to have such a success in this spawn. Not to mention your paring corresponded well with one another.

Most of all, that form is what I personally look at first and foremost when judging and breeding my own lines. The male has decent form (looks to be a bit young because of the looks of his development as well.) The female also had okay form. What's most important for HMPKs is that their caudal must be 180+ degrees and each of the pair have that. Now the female doesn't have the best anal fin or dorsal because the anal fin appears to be a bit uneven or jagged and the dorsal being quite small in length, but those are pretty easy traits to work on.

I admire that you have a goal and aren't just breeding for the hell of it. As for your fry, you have done a very good job with health concerns as well as decent feeding that contributes to their girth(body/ thickness growth)

As for the first red dragon female, you can see that she isn't exactly displaying much, but even while not flaring or displaying much, her caudal seems to be a little under 180 degrees whole the grizzled female's caudal seems to closely reach that degree measure. And also you can see that the dorsal has improved in F1 ( the main example being the grizzled female rather than the red dragon)

Set aside technicalities, they are STILL growing and there is no need to worry yet. Enjoy your fry and keep them growing tremendously. They may be stunning by the end of their growth and finnage/form still has plenty of time to improve.

I'm glad to have witnessed such an elaborate spawn log. I also thank you for contributing to the breeding world of bettas and being educated.

My most sincere regards,
-N.novice969


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks NoNovice969, exactly what I needed to I will try to post up more pictures of the spawn that looks better form wise thanks !!


----------



## NoNovice969 (Feb 10, 2015)

I'd love to see the others with better form. If you have any, try using a cube or flat glass to take pictures of flaring and such....if you don't have any that's fine, but another tip I'll give is to let whichever male or female be isolated (away from the sight of any othe fish) for about 10-15 minutes and do this to two or 4 of your best looking individuals and when you re-introduce a pair at a time, they should start flaring up nicely.

Now you can try a video of their stand-off or you can try getting these little buggers to stay still while you try to get the most difficult picture of your life lol.

Good luck. Can't wait to see them!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Please read I don't keep my betta in that small round vase he was just put in there so I can put the other betta, so I can take the picture!!







man taking these photos is hard work !!!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Judge me like a comp and tell me why he or she is good and why not please these are the offsprings


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

be brutal and honest please !!!


----------



## NoNovice969 (Feb 10, 2015)

First of all, I have to compliment your ambition and desire to better yourself with knowledge and praise you for doing such a great job! That being said, I must say that your fish look like quite the successful batch.

I am drooling over the branching of of your fish's' caudals! Specifically the branching for the last female. She is absolutely phenomenal!

I'll go by picture
*Female 1:*
Absolutely beautiful BTW. As for the quality of the fish based on the picture, her dorsal fin is an average length and could be longer, but that's really not a big deal at all considering it's not too short. I don't believe she is in full spread so it appears that she doesn't have a full 180 degree span for her caudal(Though I assume she does or will have one soon if she doesn't already) As for the anal fin, it's a great length! And lastly, the body! I admire a breeder with thick bodied fish. The fish with thicker bodies to hold fins and such (I find) are much stronger and have a better chance at surviving as well as don't tire out as easily when going through the spawning process. So that is a beautiful and plus trait with your fish so far that I've seen. The female's ventrals, according to the picture (aren't very visible) but i'm positive they're there of course!

*Female 2:*
The picture isn't as clear as I would like, but I completely understand the difficulties of trying to get a decent picture of fry, let alone a fish in general! She seems to have a slight spoonhead. That can be a problem with deformities later if she is crossed with another spoonhead (But it's really not severe enough to cause a problem or deformed fry in the future). Her dorsal also seems to be average length and that's a great quality too as stated above. This female's ventral's are actually very nice length considering she is a female(maybe even a male, but that would need to be assessed over a period of time)

*Female 3:*
She is also a beauty! Based on the picture, her dorsal seems to be a bit shorter than the others, but again it's based solely on the picture. That could look different in person! She DEFINITELY had a full 180 degree spread and depending on her further growth, she may even have over 180 degrees! The anal fin is looking great as well. It's at a great length. The ventral fins are also a good length and that thick body is present once more!

I hope you know that I am judging them based on the picture provided!

If you can get pictures of the definite looking males that would be great! Maybe even a video of a standoff or flare-off. Or more pictures very soon to see how they've progressed in such a short period of time!

That would be great to see!
~n.novice



FishMemory said:


> Please read I don't keep my betta in that small round vase he was just put in there so I can put the other betta, so I can take the picture!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

I don't have any show knowledge... but I must say the sturdy body types are gorgeous and my absolutely favorite!


----------



## NoNovice969 (Feb 10, 2015)

I agree 100% and it actually is bettering the species especially for halfmoons and long finned bettas in general! So I am very pleased with FishMemory's fry!



InStitches said:


> I don't have any show knowledge... but I must say the sturdy body types are gorgeous and my absolutely favorite!


----------



## FishMemory (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks NoNovice969 and InStitches, for the praise. NoNovice969 I will take a short clip for you when I have more time. It will probably be a week from now, so we can see the growth. I can't wait !!! and thanks for the show advice !!! A quick question the 180 spread is that a genetic thing ??? If it is do you know if it is a dominant or recessive trait? My next spawn I want to move into improving the fins like you suggested or should I wait for f3-f4 ? Oh and i'm planning on breeding one of the off springs to the male. What are your thoughts on this ?


----------

