# 10 gallon betta sorority stocking suggestions?



## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

This will be a HEAVILY live planted tank. Here's what I'm looking at getting:

8 females
6 neon tetras
3 ottos

Does that seem okay as long as there are plenty of hiding places among the plants?

-Charlene


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## laoshun (Apr 3, 2012)

most people are going to say that u are overstocking ur tank by alot, with just 8 females alone.


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

I am fully able to provide the needed maintenance.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

You'll still be overstocked...


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

What if the neons are removed from the situation? I need some form of algae eater and id like ottos.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Are you sure you need an algae eater? Otos often starve to death because people think they are getting enough food from just algae.. Some times they don't eat it at all. Nerite snails are your best bet for algae...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Are you sure you need an algae eater? Otos often starve to death because people think they are getting enough food from just algae.. Some times they don't eat it at all. Nerite snails are your best bet for algae...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This.


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

How do I go about introducing females? All at once?


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I would please reconsider this stocking option. Currently you are at 150+% and you would have to do a 50% water change a week. Which would stress any fish out, let alone a betta sorority (which can be finicky on its own) as well as neon tetras, and the otos. I would seriously think about a new stocking options. If your going to do 8 females, just do females. I would also just subtract the otos from the equation altogether.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

8 females is a lot on their own in a 10 gallon. I'd only do 6 max.


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## iElBeau (Feb 20, 2012)

I was told algae eaters have a huge bio load, and many need more than 10 gallons. Plus I'm going to agree that that's overstocked, I wouldn't do more than 7 or 8 fish of any sort in a 10 gallon.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Are you sure you need an algae eater? Otos often starve to death because people think they are getting enough food from just algae.. Some times they don't eat it at all. Nerite snails are your best bet for algae...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually an otos main diet is consisted of aquarium algae, this is one if the reasons they starve, because there isn't a sufficient supply of algae. They need tremendous amounts of algae. It would be hard to maintain this as in a heavily planted tankmates the nutrients this algae thrives in will be eaten, and used by the plants


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Ask Sakura about her otos... They only eat fish food and her tank is over run with algae. They poop tons and she wants them gone, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay, so I've reduced stock. I am going to get 8 females and a handful of ghost shrimp. I don't have access to any snails other than Apple (Mystery) Snails that Petsmart sells. I'd like to use Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate that Petco sells for the plants but with pea gravel on top for aesthetics. Can I do that or will it hurt the plants? I've never done a planted aquarium before and since I am downsizing from my 8 tanks to this one small tank, I want something that will occupy me as far as trimming the plants and such. I will be using no filter (plants will do that job) and a small heater. It's been a while since I've kept Bettas and my room stays very cold. What temperature will let the plants and the girls thrive? I'd also like to look into preparing their food rather than buying it. Throw me all of the information you all can give. Do I have to use Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate or can I just use my gravel and liquid fertilizer? Will I need the Apple snail?


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Ask Sakura about her otos... They only eat fish food and her tank is over run with algae. They poop tons and she wants them gone, lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What kind of algae, they have vey specific diets that consist mainly of algae, cucumber, etc. they might not be eating the algae as its the wrong type


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

If you are really sure you are doing live plants and it is your first time, you are gonna meet a lot of challenges, I did. You also need to know that Ecocomplete needs the use of other fertilizers as well and root tabs. That will be a lot of money just for plant food, then add some good lights. For my sorority I have easily spent $300-400 in 6 months.

Reconsider your stocking plans again, bettas need space, the less space they have the more problems you have, max it at 6. I have 5 bettas in my 15 gallon, they love the space they have, don't cramp bettas together in one tank and expect it to work out.

Do you know how a sorority works? How you need it setup? 

I am just asking these questions because it takes effort to make them happy. If you want you can PM me and we can talk more about it. You can also see my sorority in my album just to see how dense a sorority should be.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Lol I don't know ask her yourself. She has every type of algae imaginable though, lol.

Anyways, you CAN do 8 betta in a 10 gallon.. However this does add a lot of complexity. Lot's of people keep over stocked sororites on here just fine. 
If you haven't bought the tank yet, maybe consider 15 gallons?


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

I already have the tank. The woman at Petsmart (like the Wikipedia of fishkeepers) said as long as I used my peagravel and liquid plant food and fertilizer I would be fine. I am purchasing a floral light for the tank as well. Can I stick to my gravel or do I really need another substrate?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Most pro aquascapers swear by pea gravel, you'll be fine. It really doesn't need any sort of special enrichment. If you get a nice light though, combined with ferts it'll help growth.


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

What kind of fertilizers do I need? Will the API liquid food and fertilizers suffice?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Well that depends on what plants you are getting. There are root feeders and column feeders. Though nutrients do transfer, under gravel ferts float into the water, water ferts flow into the gravel. 
Avoid the liquid CO2 made by API. It can cause melt in certain plants (vals come to mind but there are certain others). I'm not sure why this happens but it does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

I won't be using CO2 and the plants will be whatever is readily available at Petsmart and Petco.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

8 2 inch fish in a 10 gallon? Along with ghost shrimp is over the top. Please, just stick with 5, 6 max.


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

I am fully capable of taking care of these fish but thank you for the input.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

I know - it's just that they will be much happier with 6. If you really want 8 you should consider upgrading to a 15 gallon.


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## xjenuhfur (Jan 30, 2012)

I understand your determination to do 8, I still would try to reduce that. But I would have a few smaller tanks, some females are just too aggressive for sorority life. Try just the females first before you get the ghost shrimp.


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

I appreciate your suggestions but I know what I am getting myself into and am fully capable of accommodating as I've said.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Someone doesn't know what they are getting into more like it XD 

As I said bettas were breed for aggression, they ARE AGGRESSIVE fish, they NEED space. Just changing water doesn't change the amount of space they have for territories, neither do plants. Just shooting down people that are already have sororities and know how they work is just gonna make you have a harder time. I hope you can learn to not be selfish and think about the fish...


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

Keeping up with the tank and setting up the tank nicely doesn't change the fact that the bettas still do not have enough SPACE. Adding live plants doesn't magically make your tank 15 or 20 gallons... 

The people trying to help you in this thread know what they're doing from experience - I would definitely take their word! :3


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

AS I HAVE SAID; I know what I am getting myself into. I'm not going to argue the point.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

kfryman said:


> Someone doesn't know what they are getting into more like it XD
> 
> As I said bettas were breed for aggression, they ARE AGGRESSIVE fish, they NEED space. Just changing water doesn't change the amount of space they have for territories, neither do plants. Just shooting down people that are already have sororities and know how they work is just gonna make you have a harder time. I hope you can learn to not be selfish and think about the fish...





Wolfie305 said:


> Keeping up with the tank and setting up the tank nicely doesn't change the fact that the bettas still do not have enough SPACE. Adding live plants doesn't magically make your tank 15 or 20 gallons...
> 
> The people trying to help you in this thread know what they're doing from experience - I would definitely take their word! :3


+1


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Please stop saying "I know what I'm getting into" as right now you sounds repetitive, and like you can't come up with anything else. And obviously you don't know what your getting into if your keeping this stock and thinking it is a safe stock. Aqvisor isn't a very accurate website and they don't take many things into consideration when generating the stock. Please for now on don't use that website, stock is calculated using



Bio load of the fish
Aggression
Territory issues
Maximum size
Whether or not it schools gender of the fish as some fish species, one gender is larger
How large the tank is
The filteration 
If its cycled
Footprint of the tank

Aqvisor only takes a few of these into consideration. I recommend using this forum as a tool, there are quite a few knowledgable members that can help you if you just listen to them, right now it seems like you at just blocking us out and repeating yourself "I know what I'm getting into" , "I know what I'm getting into" , "I know what I'm getting into" .

The reason this won't work is because Betta Splendens are a very aggressive breed of fish and are meant to be that way due to breeding. Females can be just as aggressive as males. While females don't really make a territory like males do they still need there own space. This is why if you have a fifty gallon tank with double filteration. Yu can only have 25 females. I would only suggest a maximum of 6 females in your tank, 8 is too many in my opinion due to limited space. And it seems like you think that heavily planted your tank will make a big difference, honestly it won't, as sororities should always be heavily planted. Your's will be the same as everybody else's that has one in a 10 gallon. A maximum if five

And did I hear you don't have a filter. This is another need unless you want to do daily water changes to minimize ammonia which is very toxic to fish. Having shrimp in that type of habitat would most likely kill them, I would recommend a filter rated for 20+ gallons due to your stock (6 females and 10 ghost shrimp). A filter is a need in my opinion because of how fast ammonia and other toxic substances will build up. Please research the aquarium nitrogen cycle. It's very simple and only takes 1-2 months. 
Also, are you going to heat this tank, as I'm sure your aware that bettas are tropical fish right, originating from mainly Thailand. Because, of course. This is what you said. "I know what your getting into"


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## CharleneEchols (Jun 9, 2012)

8 bettas and 10 ghost shrimp will be in the tank. I'm no longer going to post on this website the members are horribly unfriendly.


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

People confuse helpfulness with being "mean" all the time. I honestly thought all the responses here were maturely stated and extremely educational. You asked for suggestions on stocking, and they gave you the facts. 

When you completely disregard the facts, people are going to continue to tell you you're wrong, which isn't being mean. They're looking out for you and your future fish :/


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

CharleneEchols said:


> 8 bettas and 10 ghost shrimp will be in the tank. I'm no longer going to post on this website the members are horribly unfriendly.



How is it unfriendly when we have your FISH's best interest at heart...? Many of us have been doing this for a long time and know what we are talking about. When you have your first few casualties, you'll have no one to blame but yourself. Doing water changes does not make the tank magically 5-10 gallons bigger. Your fish need a certain amount of space to survive. Especially since these are *aggressive* fish. 

It's one thing to be simply ignorant of what is best for your fish. It's another to be stubborn to the detriment of them.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

8 females in a 10 gallon tank is fine as long as you are careful and keep on top of maintenance. I had 12 in a heavily planted 10 gallon tank and I had only minor aggression issues. I now have 20 odd in a 25 gallon tank and this isn't even that heavily planted and the worst I get is a few nipped fins. 

Best thing to do is buy them very young, or even better, buy a group of sisters so that way there is less likely to be issues with aggression. You will need to ensure your water is pristine as any ammonia or nitrite is going to be a serious stressor and in an environment such as a sorority, is more than likely going to lead to disease.


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## iElBeau (Feb 20, 2012)

When I first joined this site I confused the forcefulness of how people provide the facts here a little overwhelming and considered it a little mean. When you realize everyone here really just cares so much for the best interest of the fish, you'll realize how nice it truly is. 

Honest though, no one here has been mean. I've seen when some of the members are mean, and honestly, it happens because people are ignorant and think they're doing the right thing, and they become mean to try and force you to realize how you're really just taking a life by being ignorant.

As above though, you asked for help, and we gave you the answers. Just because you didn't receive a "GO AHEAD THAT WILL BE GREAT" you've retaliated and tried to argue with people who have been doing this for years. Honest, if anyone was being rude or mean here, I'd say it was you. You blatantly refused any advice, which you'd requested, and said everyone was wrong and that their opinions and experiences are of no help to you. To simply ask for advice and then refuse it is rude and immature at best. You're crying over some constructive criticism, that not only did you request, but that was given on the grounds that people believed it might actually make a difference in the lives of some fish. It's unfortunate that you'd rather kill fish, or at least make them uncomfortable and unable to thrive by making them live in conditions hardly better than the cramped cups they're sold in, than heed the kind advice provided to you.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I think you are all being very overdramatic. I have seen sororities on here and tanks where the fish inside are dull, obviously stressed and looking pretty sickly and barely a comment is made about them. A heavily planted 10 gallon tank that is heated, cycled and given appropriate maintenance is so far from the stratosphere of 'cold dirty cup on shelf' that it's laughable. 

I personally would skip the ghost shrimp or cut their numbers down by half, but otherwise I see no problems with someone who knows what they are doing having a slightly overstocked sorority. 

I see more issues with people who are conservative with their stocking than those who have higher numbers of females as the aggression tends to be focussed on one or two individuals rather than spread out amongst the group

Here is my 10 gallon sorority with 9 females visible. Everyone was happy and healthy and as coloured up as if I'd had them in individual tanks.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I was actually looking for some photos of your sorority to post on here earlier, LBF. 
Your sororities are a great example, and I agree that it's better to have more females..
No one would have told you to thin out your herd in there, but when it's a new member people seem more willing to criticize. At least that's how I'm seeing this situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

She wanted to put in a few other things as well though..


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

She decided not to back on the first page though. 
So, yes, she did take some advice, not throw everything we said as nonsense.


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

Yeah. I dunno, I think she just could have handled the advice better. No one was being mean, just helpful :3


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

CharleneEchols said:


> I am fully able to provide the needed maintenance.





CharleneEchols said:


> I am fully capable of taking care of these fish but thank you for the input.





CharleneEchols said:


> I appreciate your suggestions but I know what I am getting myself into and am fully capable of accommodating as I've said.





CharleneEchols said:


> AS I HAVE SAID; I know what I am getting myself into. I'm not going to argue the point.


 :|


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Maybe you guys shouldn't have been so repetitive back? She never once said you guys are wrong, she never trashed your advice, she "appreciated" your suggestions and thanked you for your input, you kept pushing her, hence the last message being more forceful.
There's nothing wrong with her current stocking plan.
Now let's just please get over this and help the OP out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yaoilover12397 (Aug 12, 2011)

I would say there is a great differnce though in experience between OP and LBF as well as she's planning ten ghost shrimp, which like to eat fish if they can get to it, for someone who seems from what they've said to be new to this they're better off with a less intensive project or getting a bigger tank to help make sure the fish get what they need.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Ghost shrimp eating a betta? Maybe fins yes, which females lack, maybe a dead betta. I have yet to hear of a shrimp overpowering and eating a betta.
LBF herself said that this will work out better than a smaller amount of females, are you denying her experience?
Seriously guys, drop it. You're epicly failing at helping the OP or changing her plans. You've been asked by her nicely to stop criticizing several times, you tried your best and were polite about it. Yes disregarding information can lead to disaster but LBF says it'll be fine, as do I, though my opinion probably matters less.

Even if this fails, you can't blame the OP. Each sorority is a ticking time bomb many end badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

Just because it has worked for LBF (someone very experienced) doesn't mean it's going to work for a person new to sororities.

What I don't understand is when people come with a question or they are asking for advice and when they get advice they disregard it . . .


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I see she said she won't be coming back... So let's just drop it and not post here any more, she got what she wanted even if she didn't want to here what we said. Nothing else to do.

No more!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

When I was new to sororities I had 5 females in a 6 gallon tank, which is basically the same sort of stocking as 8 females in a 10 gallon excluding the ghost shrimp.

I didn't cycle that tank but instead planted heavily with milfoil and did 25% water changes every second day for the first couple of weeks.

I have only ever had four instances out of the three sororities and 30-40 odd females in them, where a fish has not been compatible with sorority life. One was due to aggression, one was due to blindness, and the other two just did not like living in that kind of environment. 

These females have come from AB, pet stores and breeders. Some are young, some are mature. I don't bother floating newcomers or rearranging territories. I just dump them in and let them sort it out amongst themselves. 

Setting up a sorority was definitely not the doom and gloom I was expecting from the majority of posts on here. Mainly I think the problems are that people go in either unprepared or unfamiliar with displays of aggression amongst bettas, or they are so convinced that their sorority is going to implode they yank females and fiddle so much they stress everyone out. 

Bettas fight. Bettas will always fight, but your set-up will determine the severity of their fights. A well-planted sorority will let the losing fish get away, and this is so important in an enclosed area where there is no room for a proper escape. 

Personally I think it is better to overstock than understock a sorority. It's why people with cichlids usually have overstocked tanks. It spreads out aggression and stops the targeting of individual fish. The trick to a successful sorority in my experience has been overstocking, excellent water quality and lots of food. 

You will always get females that are bullies or victims, but by culling them out of your sorority at the start, you end up with a group of females able to live together at least relatively peacefully.

I would not do the ghost shrimp as I mentioned before, or only have a couple in there if you absolutely can't do without. However, 8 females in a 10 gallon is manageable if you are willing to put in the work. Also, just because someone is new to the forum doesn't mean they were new to fishkeeping in general. When I joined, I still knew more than some members who had hundreds of posts. Post count does not make someone an expert on all things bettas.

*Edit -* I would say it's likely the OP is still lurking and reading. Besides, the information in this thread could be valuable to other members and guests.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Littlebettafish with everyone saying six maximum I didn't even know! We really need more people to stop following everyone else's word, even I am guilty.

We need a guide to a proper sorority though and have great sorority tanks, as in densely planted and not good sororities, as well as tips and keys to success and what not to do. I think it would really help us out. 

I do think that 8 in a 10 gallon is a lot, but I try to understock a bit, I would like to add at least two females to my sorority. Ghost shrimp are good if there is good water as they can be picky with water quality. Skip shrimp in a tank that will have more ammonia like an overstocked sorority.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

We have a sricky on sororities. It can be revised or added to if anyone has something to add to it. Just let me know.


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## ClassicCharm (Jan 17, 2010)

LittleBettaFish said:


> When I was new to sororities I had 5 females in a 6 gallon tank, which is basically the same sort of stocking as 8 females in a 10 gallon excluding the ghost shrimp.
> 
> I didn't cycle that tank but instead planted heavily with milfoil and did 25% water changes every second day for the first couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


This is a GREAT post  I've been working on my sorority for maybe three years now. I have always aired on the side of understocking, and I have made lots of mistakes along the way. The best way to learn is by continuing to follow those who have successful sororities, and do your best not to repeat mistakes made in the past. I'm also the type of person who worries and meddles too much, and have learned from that as well. Everyone has to learn somehow, and often that means making mistakes along the way. All you can do is try your very best to make the welfare of the fish your top priority. 

If the OP believes that her set-up is going to be in the best interest for the welfare of her animals, then it's her experience to have. 

That being said, I personally have learned a TON from this site, and continue to value the help and guidance of the posters here.


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