# Dragon and Tiny Spawn Log *Pic. Heavy*



## Gloria

Ok, So after a good 17days of conditiong all of my Bettas, I decided that I would pair up Tiny and Dragon.. Well Tiny decided, I put her beside each other the other boys tank one at and time and watched for the reaction of the two of them.. In the end it was Dragon she seemed to like more..
I gave the pair an extra feed and then put Dragon into the breeding tank. A few hours later I put Tiny in, in a breeders net and watched. Dragon was doing the whole wiggly dance and swimming in a snake pattern.. Tiny was doing the same and trying to follow him EVERYWHERE.. Eventually I let her out.. It was 5:30pm last night when I released her in with him, set of the lights and shut the door (for extra privacy).. I woke up at 8:30am this morning to fnd Dragon dancing under the nest lurin Tiny and LOTS of eggs on the bottom of the tank..
I didn't see them embrace for a little bit, then they did, 3 more times, each time a few eggs dropping.. Dragon made NO attempt to pick them up.. Tiny would swim away, expecting things were over and he would wiggle towards her then back to the nest. Eventually he noticed the eggs on the tank floor...
I saw him pick EVERY one of them up and then go to the surface of the water and breathe.. And went no where near the nest.. And evey now and then he will try and lure Tiny back to the nest (for another embrace?!)
So.. What now? What do I do? Am I not getting any babies? :$


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## Gloria

It is now 11:30... 3 hours after I woke up and saw the eggs on the ground.. I have been sitting watching Tiny and Dragon this WHOLE time.. They eventually got the hang of it.. They started to get a good pattern going too.. They would embrace, catch eggs, place them in the nest and repeat.. Each embrace would result in 10-20 eggs and they embraced well over 20 times.. I very interested to find out how many there actually are :$
Tiny is now in a QT tank with some epson salt and Dragon is being a good First Time Daddy and watching the nest like a HAWKE!!


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Awesome! I think I recall another thread you had with breeding a pair... You had some trouble with it at first. But that's great that things worked out so well!


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## Gloria

haha.. Yeah my other pair just didn't know what to do.. I don't think I conditioned them well enough.. This pair got fed every 2-3 hours on the dot and was fed FBW, pellets and BS...

Pics coming in 5...


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Cool... can't wait to see. c:
And yeah, I went a bit crazy with the conditioning. I went out and bought frozen Mysis and Brine Shrimp, as well as occassional pellets... but I pretty much restricted them to the frozen stuff.


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## Gloria

*Pictures...*

So, as I said I would, here are some photos...

The eggs I woke up to find this morning...








Dragon flaring at me, just before he went into the breeding tank..








Tiny, taking a rest just before I took her out of the breeding tank...








Dragon, being a proud dad, with his nest and eggs..


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Beautiful parents! And a nice-looking nest of eggs, too~


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## Gloria

I have a quick question.. I know alot of people on here say it is a good idea to put some plastic wrap over the top of the tank.. If I do this how do I feed the fry??? Also do I need to poke holes in it?


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## Gloria

aww thanks blakbirdxgyarados I am very interested in how the babies will turn out.. I am sad at how small the nest is, he used to make MASSIVE ones, but he decided on a little on and in the opposite corner to where the IAL was, right infront of the thermometre amongst the plants :$


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

I imagine it'd be easier for him to maintain the nest according to how many eggs he knows are good.  No need for extra bubbles, I suppose.... The eggs are hard enough work for him on their own. xD

And putting plastic wrap is preferred because it keeps humidity in the tank... When the fry take their first breaths, the air above the water surface shouldn't be too dry, otherwise they'll have problems with their labyrinth organ. 

What I'm doing about feeding the fry is just taking half the plastic wrap off (or at least enough for me to put my hand in there) and dip in their eats, then re-cover it. You shouldn't have to poke too many holes in it, too... even if you only poke about 5 needle-sized holes, the humidity will still stay in the tank.


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## Gloria

true..
It is MEGA hot here atm, we have the fans constantly going...I have got a heater in the tank just incase, its staying at a steady 29'c...
How long exactly til the eggs should hatch again?
Ok.. could I use alfoil instead? Just that itll be easier to attach to the tank.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Wow, even 29'C still sounds hot to me. xD
About 2-3 days until they hatch... you'll see little ones' tails hanging out at the top. 
And imo, I don't see anything wrong with alfoil.... It should work the same.


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## Gloria

Is 29'c too hot for the tank?
Yeah.. Thats right.. For some reason I was thinking id have free swimming fry in the next 30 hours..
Cool.. It's just that'll be easier to wrap over the top of the tank.. But I'll just put half a dozen pin holes in it..


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Oh, for the tank? My bad, I skipped over that apparently. No, it should be fine. Perfect, really. xD Hotter temps help the fry develop.

Edit: I was thinking 29'C for inside the room. |D


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## Gloria

lol.. Yeah the tank is at 29'c.. But I just checked and aparently it is 28'c in Bowen (where I live) today..


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

It's generally still hot these days where I am (Florida), but it is supposed to get down to 13'C tonight...


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## Gloria

oh man.. I wish I lived somewhere cold rainy and or snowy. I prefer colder weather.. But it would probably be a little harder to breed?!
Dragon has moved his nest a little bit.. I have just covered the top with alfoil and poked 8 pin holes in it.. I hope that's enough?!


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

It's enough  At least there's a way for more oxygen to make it to the surface of the water. And after all, it's not like bettas really need as much as oxygen as humans use consistantly.

I love it in Florida... not a fan of snow. I like it, but I don't want to be in it, y'know? xD
And it would be harder to breed in that it'd probably be harder to keep the individual cups of juvie males warm.


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## bettafish333

Psh in az it was 100 FLIPPIN DEGREES! and great jobs on breeding.... if only mine would work.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Oh I hear ya... |D That's rough.

And it can take time to get the breeding process down... just gotta keep trying.


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## indjo

Congrats.... you finally succeeded.

Keep your tank closed to keep it humid (Australia is very dry, even during winter months). Humidity will help develop the labyrinth organ which bettas need to breath.

You can use anything solid that won't absorb liquid. Alfoil is good, get it as tight as possible. Just lift it during feeding time and re-place when done. At 29C you should have fry by tomorrow or the following day.

And now the fun begins.... raising fry!


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## Gloria

Well I have you to thank Indjo.. You have helped me SO much.. THANK - YOU!!!

I still have the heater set, It is REALLY hot here atm about 28'c+..I have got the alfoil on as tight as I can.. I only put in 8 pin holes.. I REALLY want to try and get some fry to survive.. 
Dragon is being a good dad still watching the nest, every now and then he will swim around the tank, it looks like he's making sure he didn't miss any eggs 
I am SO nervous about raising the fry.. I think setting up the 10L tank was a bad idea now that ive seen the amount of eggs that were placed into the nest.. I will have to do WC and trasfer to grow out tank really early.. I think..
I have got my 2 snails in there as clean up crew..
Unfortunetly my infusoria was spoilt by a toad and my microculture and vinegar eel starter cultures were dead when arrived. So it'll be egg yolk and whatever infusoria is in the tank for their food :$


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## indjo

IMO, you don't need the thermometer for now. It's only spring and already it's 28C..... Where I was summers reached a scourging 40C. But it's better safe than sorry.

Start off as you planned - egg yolk and infusoria. But try to get BBS eggs and start a hatchery. If your fry grows quickly the first week, it would be easier and safer to move them early. Further you could start new, bigger food like daphnia or other kinds of food.


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## Gloria

Oh ok.. Well I can't take the thermometre out, due to the fact that Dragon for some silly reason built his nest at the wrong end of the tank AROUND the thermometre! :$ silly boy.. But I am still VERY proud of him.. and Tiny 

I have got BBS eggs and I made a hatchery today so it is ready to start as soon as I see them free swimming. Or should I start it the second they hatch?
I am unable to get daphnia. All i will have is egg yolk, fresh BBS, FBW, FBS and Frozen Mysis Shrimp, pellets and flake.. :$

How will I know if they are growing quickly? Is there an average scale I can go off?


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## Gloria

I am also wanting to know when I should set up my grow out tank? I was thinking of doing it tomorrow or later this week to let the water kind of age? And be nice and warm and what not. Dunno... What does anyone/ everyone think?
What is the recommended size for the jars for jarring fry??


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## indjo

The chart I only know is in bettysplenden. here's the link
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=846

This is a general normal growth rate. Some grow even faster.

As a general guide; 10 - 14 days = minimum 3mm - this is good growth. When you introduce other foods, they will grow even faster.

Start the BBS when they are free swimming. Give them egg yolk while you wait for the BBS to hatch.


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## Gloria

I forgot.. I also have freeze dried black worms.. But I have no idea when I should intro them or how to feed them to the fry


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## indjo

I use 2ltr square (not rectangle) drinking bottles cut in half as temporary jars - floated in the fry tank. If they don't jump out, I move them to 2-4 ltr tanks.


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## Gloria

would you happen to have a picture of what that looks like? :$


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## indjo

You cut them up into little pieces. Don't thaw, slice them while they're frozen. But these (and FBW) can be fed after fry reach 0.5 - 1cm .... careful, an un-cut piece may choke fry.

My phone's battery is low, I'll get pictures tomorrow.


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## Gloria

Oh ok.. Thank you Indjo...
Thats ok.. No bigger, I have a little while yet, just need to get jars that are a sufficient size in enough time..


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## Gloria

I can get starter culture off ebay.. They wont arrive for a week.. Should I bother?


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## JAB91

Congrats on your spawn! And a starter culture of what?


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## Bettas Rule

Good looking pair! Good luck on the spawn and keep us updated!:-D


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## Gloria

@ JAB91 starter cultures of microworms, vinegar eels and daphnia..
@ Bettas Rule - thank you, I will definetly keep everone posted.. There will be LOTS of photos.. eventually


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## Miyazawa

great job!!!! im excited for the pictures now


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## Gloria

aww thanx Miyazawa.. There are no fry just yet.. It has only been 24 hours since the pair finished spawning and were seperated.. That tank has been at a consistant 29'c.. but  while I was at work it started raining and noone had shut windows and so now the thermometre reads 26'c.. I hope this decline in temp doesn't cause too many problems..
I LOVE the rain.. But seriously.. Couldn't it have waited til I was home and made sure I could maintain the heat inside.. Partly my boyfriends fault i suppose, lol, nah..


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## Miyazawa

Gloria said:


> aww thanx Miyazawa.. There are no fry just yet.. It has only been 24 hours since the pair finished spawning and were seperated.. That tank has been at a consistant 29'c.. but  while I was at work it started raining and noone had shut windows and so now the thermometre reads 26'c.. I hope this decline in temp doesn't cause too many problems..
> I LOVE the rain.. But seriously.. Couldn't it have waited til I was home and made sure I could maintain the heat inside.. Partly my boyfriends fault i suppose, lol, nah..


Haha Well i used to live in hong kong and Seattle which both rain all the time and now I'm in upstate new York which snows for like half a year lol lets just say precipitation and I are not friend


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## Gloria

What does everyone recommend when it comes to medications?


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Medications to help the parents get better? Or th fry if they get sick?

Meds for the parents... well... Personally I'd keep each in their own QT with 1tsp/gal of Aquarium salt in it. (I'm not sure how much would go per litre.)
StressCoat+ helps heal fins pretty fast, and feed them as if you were conditioning them again... spawning is a lot of work, so they need a protein boost again. 

For the fry... don't ask me. xD;


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## Gloria

LOL.. that is what I am currently doing, but I just wanted to see if there was any other type of meds people use during this whole process. I know Mr.Vamp put in the sticky that you should have meds for ick and velvet.. I just thought id see what people use that they find good...


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Methalyne blue is good to use for ich... There's a mixture of that and malachite green in a medicine called Betta Revive. Best stuff Evar, as far as general diseases go. I used to rely on that before I knew for sure what the salts could do, too. 
I've never had a fish with velvet before, so I can't rightly help you on that.


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## Miyazawa

I have Mardel coppersafe just in case if my baby gets icks or velvet. But I don't think it is safe to use it on frys since copper sulfate is pretty strong and deadly to plants and invertebrates. It is super effective if you apply the right dosage and use it right.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

@Miyazawa, I can't help but think of Pokemon when I read "It is super effective". Just thought I'd point that out. |D


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## Gloria

cool.. Thanx guys.. I have got stuff here, just thought i'd see what everyone else uses.. 

Update: Still no hatched eggs yet, but Dragon is being a good protective dad. The snails aren't allowed too close and he has made the nest bigger..


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## Miyazawa

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> @Miyazawa, I can't help but think of Pokemon when I read "It is super effective". Just thought I'd point that out. |D


I just loled looking at this lol

Anyway Gloria good luck, keep us posted. I will continue to stalk your thread lol......I'm stalking a lot of people's threads


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## Gloria

So I took a few photos of Dragon tending the nest 2 hours ago, but I am too tired to upload them so I will do it tomorrow..
I hope the eggs will hatch tomorrow..


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## indjo

As promised; my temporary first solitary for fry. I use the 2 ltr squared shaped bottles because the rectangle ones aren't firm enough ... not the way I like it.























When the fry are jarred, I float it in the tank to see if it would jump. When I think it's safe, I place it with other jars.


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## MrVampire181

Betta Revive is just methylene blue...very over priced methylene blue.


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## Miyazawa

MrVampire181 said:


> Betta Revive is just methylene blue...very over priced methylene blue.


Ingredients:

Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid
2.5 mL; Treats 5 gallons
Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate (<10%), methylene blue (<0.5%), proprietary polymer mixture, buffers, EDTA, malachite green chloride (<0.01%), cyanocobalamin and electrolytes.

It has both methylene blue and malachite green, but I agree that it is overpriced because thats very little methylene blue and malachite green. It is not used as a medication, it is more like a control medication before you get your real medication.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Miyazawa said:


> Ingredients:
> 
> Hikari Betta Revive Health Aid
> 2.5 mL; Treats 5 gallons
> Ingredients: Water, neomycin sulfate (<10%), methylene blue (<0.5%), proprietary polymer mixture, buffers, EDTA, malachite green chloride (<0.01%), cyanocobalamin and electrolytes.
> 
> It has both methylene blue and malachite green, but I agree that it is overpriced because thats very little methylene blue and malachite green. It is not used as a medication, it is more like a control medication before you get your real medication.


True. And I do have other medications available to me. I just find that this stuff works great for when the diseases are pretty minor. One "fish-bottle" lasts me about a year since I really don't need or use it much... and maybe it's just where I am, but straight Methalyne Blue here costs a lot more than BR. I'm probaby getting ripped off in that way. >> But still, as I said, I never need but one fish-bottle yearly.


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## Miyazawa

BlakbirdxGyarados said:


> True. And I do have other medications available to me. I just find that this stuff works great for when the diseases are pretty minor. One "fish-bottle" lasts me about a year since I really don't need or use it much... and maybe it's just where I am, but straight Methalyne Blue here costs a lot more than BR. I'm probaby getting ripped off in that way. >> But still, as I said, I never need but one fish-bottle yearly.


sorry i didn't mean that betta revive is not effective, it is very useful against minor breakout and infection. I'm just saying there's strong stuff if BR doesn't work.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados

Miyazawa said:


> sorry i didn't mean that betta revive is not effective, it is very useful against minor breakout and infection. I'm just saying there's strong stuff if BR doesn't work.


No apologies neccesary, I understand where you were coming from.  I just felt I needed to clarify that I didn't rely on it... and that I really only use it for minor cases.


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## JAB91

I have all three of those cultures. I think there very good especially the microworms. Super easy to culture and the fry really love them. I recently acquired my daphnia piled from online and have been culturing it for about 3 days now. I tried feeding my fry, who are 2 weeks old and about 1/4 inches long and they couldn't eat the baby daphnia yet. They followed the daphnia with amazement and then left it alone when they saw they coudlnt eat it xD. Its really hard getting them to eat frozen foods like frozen bbs, they only like things that wiggle in there face so that's why I like the microworm and vinegar eels. What kind of food do you plan on feeding them?


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## JAB91

Meant to say daphnia pulex


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## Gloria

*Update!!*

So this morning as I was leaving for work I thought I would check and see if any eggs had hatched.. I walked to the tank and looked at the bubblenest, Dragon was still under it watching, being a good daddy.. As I was about to turn I saw this little thing fall. 'Is that a fry?' I thought to myself, I didn't want to get too excited so I left for work.
I came home and thought I would suss it out a little more... Guess what?

:blueyay: *WE HAVE FRY!!!!! *:blueyay:

There are HEAPS of tiny little fry.. Alot seem to be falling from the bubblenest. Is it bad if they fall alot?
I saw one little guy go from the nest to the bottom of the tank and all the way back up.. Most of the others are only going about 2/3mm from the nest.. Dragon seems a little stressed now that they are hatched, but he is doing good... Goes and look on the bottom every now and then to make sure he hasn't missed any falling fry 

Here are 2 photos I got. They aren't very good. I don't want to hover too much, but i will try and get some more photos later


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## Gloria

@ Jab91.. unfortunetly the Microworms and Vinegar eels culture I planned to feed died. I have however order more. So I am awaiting Microworms, vinegar eels and daphnia..
I am going to try the egg yolk and see how that goes. I have a few plants in the tank so hopefully there will be a little infusoria for them.. I also have BBS so I will try that too


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## indjo

Haha..... congrats.
Now you understand why they need to be well conditioned and in top health.

Everything sounds normal, fry falling down and swimming back up again ...etc. Daddy will be very busy for the next 3 days or so.


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## trilobite

Wooh! cogratulations :-D
Keep us updated on their progress


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## Gloria

*More Pictures!*































Yep, Dragon will be.. There are heaps of little fry. So exciting..


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## Miyazawa

CONGRATZ!!! this is so exciting


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## Gloria

i know.. my emotions are mixed but. I am excited for the fry and their mum and dad are good but another one of my bettas may have dropsy..  sigh


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## Gloria

So should I get any BBS or boiled egg yolk ready yet?
I dont add any food until I see them free swimming? Correct? Which will be in 30-36hrs?


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## Gloria

I saw one little fry swim from the bubblenest at one end of the tank to the IAL at the other end!!! OMG!!
Should I add some food?


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## indjo

When a majority of them swim .... you know, actually swim in a nice fish like fashion, then you can add food.

But if they're still sort of wriggling their way through and sometimes sort of in circles, their not free swimming yet.


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## Gloria

oh ok.. Thanx indjo..
There are ALOT of little fry there. I wish I could could them... hehe.. Maybe once they are a little bigger I can try and figure it out.. 
When would you recommend I put them in the bigger tank/ tub? I feel bad that there are so many and i only have them in a 13L tank (which it filled with 10L)


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## indjo

At least when they're about 3mm (average). If they eat well and wc are met, they should reach that size in about 10 days give or take.

Oh, just want to point out that you should be extra careful when siphoning. I suggest siphoning to a small bowl before dumping the water because you will almost always siphon out fry.


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## Gloria

*Few Questions*

Ok so the fry are 3 days old today, they are about 3mm long including their little tail.
I have asked some of these questions before, but just wanted to make sure I have everything straight before I do it..
They are currently in a 13L tank filled with 10L and are going into a 55L tank (filled with 10L to start off)
Just a few questions..
1. I was thinking about putting my fry in their new tank in 2days. Should I set it up now? (fill with water, add conditioner and put on heater?)
2. How do I move the fry to their new tank?(please give me good detail, tips and hints  )
3. Should I add plants and IAL to the new tank?
4. How much food should I be feeding? How many times a day should I feed them?
5. How often should I do water changes?
6. What is the best temp to keep the water at? Is 28'c the whole time ok?
7. Once I take Dragon (dad) out, even though he loks 100% should I put him in aquarium salt or epson salt water?


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## Gloria




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## indjo

I thought I answered this last night....... oh well

Newly hatched fry are very small, about 1mm at most - a dot a pen makes. So your fry are unlikely 3mm - check again. I wouldn't move them just yet because they are still very vulnerable to disaster. Wait until 2 weeks.

The amount of wc highly depends on the number of fry compared to tank size. A big spawn (700 - 1000 fry) in 10ltr would need 50% daily wc if you want them to quickly grow. Remember to use the drip system when refilling.
Try to siphon out uneaten food before it fouls up you water. .... this would be difficult if you have too many plants.

If you're using egg yolk, about 2x2x2mm per feeding 2-3 times is enough. Don't add more if you see a lot of uneaten EY on the tank floor. I'm not sure about BBS though. Just approximate the number and size of fry. If you have a big spawn, 1/2 tsp of hatched BBS per feeding should do. Remember to add more food per feeding as fry grow.

You can set up the grow out any time. IMO the longer you age everything, the better. 
Plants - It's up to you. Fry should be too big for infusoria so they don't really need them. You could use air pumps instead, set to 1-3 bubbles per second (longer tanks could take more bubbles) - you decide whether fry is troubled by the pump.

There are various ways of moving fry. The safest way is to acclimate them to the new water - 
1. Fill half of a bowl (or something that can hold all your fry) with old fry tank water and move fry into it either by cupping them or netting them (use nets with very fine holes). Float the bowl in the grow out for about 5 - 15 minutes so the temp would be close. Then add drops of grow out water until the bowl is full and release fry.

2. If your fry tank fits into your grow out - reduce fry tank water and float it in the grow out. Then do the same as with the bowl.

A not so safe way is to reduce 1/4 or more fry tank water and slowly pour it into the grow out.

I don't use any additives for my fry, not even IAL. But you can if you want. A constant 28C is good. Try to keep it as constant as possible. 

For some reason males go through a stress period when you take him out from his fry. My common case is not eating for days which makes them very weak and vulnerable to diseases. So it would be best to quarantine him with aq. salt and IAL.


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## Gloria

Thank you Injdo. and sorry.


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## Gloria

The fry are 5 days old. Pic later.


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## Gloria

*5 Days Old.. Pic Update..*


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## indjo

Gloria said:


> Thank you Injdo. and sorry.


Any time...

Sorry? For what? .... if you're referring to my first sentence - I meant; the answer I thought I posted was gone. I must have either pressed something wrong or my comp was acting up again.... So no apologies needed.

Your fry looks like they're free swimming (they're everywhere). You could start feeding them (EY) and prepare your BBS hatchery. 

Congrats on everything.


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## Gloria

Thank you..
I have been feeding egg yolk and they have had a little BBS..
Sorry the pictures aren't very nice, I had just fed EY..
The stuff is making the tank gross 
I am worried theyre not all eating.
I counted and there are about 90 Fry, give or take a few..


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## indjo

Cloudy water indicates that either they're not eating the EY or you're feeding too much. Reduce the EY. 
If you've given them BBS, they probably wouldn't touch the EY because their instinct drives them to hunt - so you should stop feeding EY or feed only 1/3 of what you usually give them. 

Do WC - 20% 2-3 times a day ..... until the water is clear again. 

Usually only 30% will make it to adult. So don't get discourage if you find some dead fry - it's normal.


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## Gloria

Since there seems to be SO many babies I have been putting in about 3-5 drops of EY per feeding, breakfast and lunch.
Then at dinner they get as much BBS as I can get and 2 drops of EY..

Thank you Indjo


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## Gloria

Fry are 1 week old today.. Will upload some pictures soon..

There seems to be some dead about half a dozen :'(


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## Gloria

Can someone give me some tips and pointers on the best way to rinse BBS before feeding to my fry?


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## vilmarisv

Place the BBS in a coffee filter and pour fresh water over them, it'll rinse them really well.
Also, you can slow down growth of the newly hatched BBS by placing them in the fridge. I would harvest them and place them in the fridge... one good batch would last me over a week!


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## Bambi

The slowing of the growth things sounds like it would be super helpful for smaller spawns that don't eat that much....
I've never fed hatched brine shrimp before so i don't have any help to give there.

A few fry will die simply from genetic issues, but you should probably check for velvet or other issues.


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## indjo

In the past, I only;
1. dip the net in freshwater a few times
2. run freshwater through/on them.


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## Gloria

Thanx everyone. I just wanted to make sure I am doing it right.
I lost 13 fry.
I will check for velvet. I hope they haven't got anythingyet, they're only 1 week.


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## Gloria

As far as I can tell, it is not velvet..
There are still 87 Fry!


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## Gloria

*1 Week Old..*

So the fry are now 1 week and 1 day. I took some photos yesterday (1 week) but was unable to get onto the computer so... I am putting them up today..

































They seem to be doing ok. I am feeding newly hatched BBS and sometime a little EY.
I am worried I am not doing the BBS correct :$


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## Gloria

So the fry are now 9 days old.. When can I add a sponge filter?


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## Gloria

Fry are 10 days old today.


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## Nickpearson1985

They're so cute. Dibs on a female!:-D


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## Gloria

oh. Thank you Nick..
I will upload some more pictures very soon. They're about to have lunch so when they have full bellies i'll post some..
I will be thinking about shipping but not unless people are definetly interested.
Not too many people are wantning a female.


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## Nickpearson1985

Just think it might be neat to see what I get from the guy in my avatar.


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## Gloria

So you may be interested in one to breed?


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## Gloria

*10 Day Old Fry Photos*

So here are some photos I took not long after feeding lunch to fry today. They are now 10 day old and I am able to see them a little easier.. They are getting bigger too  I have seen a few that are a little smaller but majority seem the same size 

























I will upload photos of mum and dad again soon as they are both doing very well


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## Gloria

hehe whoops... I just realised they are 11 days old. Not 10... HEHE..
will have to edit that if I can...getting misxed up on what day it is


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## Gloria

I just got Daphnia Culture. Can someone help me please?


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## Gloria

*Dragon and Tiny Update (Dad and Mum)*

Ok.. So finally I have been able to get photos of bother Dragon and Tiny. They are both looking and acting good. Dragon is nearly back to his old self, still a little sookie somedays but still.. Tiny is going good, her fins have nearly finished healing, they weren't 100% when she was put in so it's taking longer than it probably should. She is very much her normal self, very active, never stays still


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## JAB91

Okay, so do you have a bucket or even litre bottles set up for your daphnia? You'll need that and fresh tank water for your daphnia because even dechlorinated filter water will kill them. Setup your bucket or even litre bottle, I have mine in a 5 gal bucket outside, fill your bucket up 2/3 full with cycled tank water. Float your bag of daphnia in the bucket and let the temp equalize and then slowly pour water in to your bag so they can acclimate to to the water chemistry. Make sure when you finally put them in you don't cause small bubbles because they will get trapped under the daphnia and cause them to die, so don't not put a airstone with fine bubbles in the bucket. I feed my daphnia yeast or green water .


----------



## Gloria

Thanx JAB91..

What age does everyone recommend to start selling/ giving away my fry?


----------



## dramaqueen

Probably 3 -4 months.


----------



## Gloria

Thank you dramaqueen..


----------



## Bambi

3-4 month, like dramaqueen said. It depends on how fast your fry grow. About how many fry have you got now?


----------



## Gloria

Thanx Bambi..

Umm. Im not too sure I haven't had anymore die that I know of so I should have about 80 fry...

I am wanting to know about w/c. I have them in a 55L clear plastic tub fill with 54L and 2 mystery snails.. What w/c does everyone recommend? I just want to make sure I am doing enough..

Introducing new foods? Can I start yet?


----------



## Gloria

*2 Weeks Old*

Today the fry are 2 weeks old 
They are looking very cute and are swimming around ALOT. They're fast little buggers 
The smallest I can see is 4mm long whilte the biggest is 8mm long. I do not know of any deaths so there should be about 80,
but when I try and count I only get 40. Which is still good.
They have been eating lots of BBS, which they LOVE 

My phones' camera didn't want to take photos of the fry today so the pictures aren't that clear but you get the idea.
I will probably take more later tonight. So *if anyone is still following* this there *will* be more pictures later...


----------



## Gloria

Why doesn't anyone look at my thread anymore? Are my fry uninteresting?
I've been asking questions.

sigh


----------



## indjo

It's not that no one follows it, it's just that you're not having problems so there's nothing to say other than "lookin good, congratulation". lol


----------



## heathbar

I love looking at pictures and seeing their progress. Keep posting!


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## tpocicat

I love watching spawn logs. Please don't stop!


----------



## Gloria

My BBS is not working, I cannot get any to hatch all of a sudden. What else is there that I can feed my fry? They are 15 days old today..


----------



## vilmarisv

How is your bbs hatchery looking?
Where did you get your bbs?
Make sure you're adding enough salt and that you have that airpump going all day.
Since cultures would take a few days to be shipped to you and then a few more to get settled, you can try frozen bbs from the LPS if you need something to feed in a hurry but the fry might not be as excited to eat it.


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## Gloria

I was using the BBS since free-swimming and everytime it was working perfectly. But now its like the eegs just disappear. I let it run for 24hours. I got my eggs from an aquarium shop a few hours drive away. They sit in the fridge when not in use. I add 2 tablespoons per litre, as thats what the instructions on the salt packet say. The hatcheries are in the spare bedroom so they are not touched the pump stays on fro the 24hours
I have tried twice to culture microworms, vinegar eels and daphnia and they never work, just stink like all hell..
I have set another hatchery up to give another go. Not sure whats going on. thanx vil.


----------



## Gloria

*2 weeks 3 day Old FRY*

New pics of my fry. There are still a good few of fry as far as I can tell. They are still eating BBS and seem to love it. Most are between 7mm and 9mm long, but there is one like boy/ girl who is only 3/4mm.. 
Love my Betta Fry!


----------



## Gloria

SO, this is probably a REALLY stupid question, but.. Is there such thing as a Crowntail with Dragon Scales? If so, how can I achieve this if I continue breeding?
Sorry if this is a really silly question, just wanted to know.


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## GreenTea

Yeah there is dragon scale everything, you'd just need to add some dragon scaled cts into what you're doing.


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## Gloria

Ok, So I would have to buy a Dragon CT and breed him/ her with another of my fish?


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## GreenTea

yeah although it helps to have the female be the one with dragon scales, and it will take a few generations to get full dragon scale coverage


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## Gloria

How do they get it in the first place? I was hoping to start from scratch but I only have a VT Dragon Male and a CT female. I can't work with that to get it?
There is no way in this world I could get a Dragon CT here


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## GreenTea

Well dragon scales to my knowledge were created by breeding fish with the thickest scales and white color. You could try, but I don't know how successful it would be. You would probably get a lot of partial dragon scales and just have to keep working with them until you get consistently dragon-scaled fish.


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## Gloria

Yeah.. Hopefully someone else will jump into this thread and shed a little more light. Im sick of having no responses. But thank you for your help green tea.
As you have probably noticed this spawn was a female CT and a male dragon VT. So I am interested to see how the fry turn out. I don't know how it would work. I think I would have to buy more Bettas one way or the other.?!


----------



## GreenTea

Yeah I think you'd have to add some more fish into your line so keep your eye out for any dragons! If you get any partial dragon females this time round I'd breed them back to their father and see how the offspring turn out. I'll keep an eye out for some articles or anything helpful, dont know much about dragon scale genetics, all my dragon scale pairs have matches that are also dragon so I havent had to think about it.


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## Gloria

Thank you GreenTea..
I found a gorgeous little green Dragon today at a pet shop a few hours away. He looked AWFUL, I wanted to cry for him. He looked sickly skinny and just wrong. He was in a little jug that would have only held about 200ml of water. It is the first time i have EVER seen a Betta in a tiny little cup here in Australia. UNFORTUNETLY, my boyfriend would NOT let me save him. I laready have 4 males, 1 female and the 40ish fry (which I will be keeping 2 of). But ARGH... All the little guy needed was a tank with a heater and a decent amount of water food and TLC!!!!

BTW, I am making another THREAD for the question about Dragon scale CT


----------



## Gloria

My babies are nearly 3 weeks old. I will upload some pics later today am just currently in the middle of a water change.
I have counted about 65 fry still. So yeah ALOT more than I thought i had (I thought I only had 30)... They are roughly about the same size about 9mm long I think. There is a small handful that is rather small and another 2 or so that are TINY!! But neither of the parents are that big, when I got the mum she was only JUST 1.5CM long including fins and she is now only just 3cm. Dad isn't very big either so yeah.


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## Gloria

So it is 12:34am Sunday 06/11/2011 here.. I just realised I promised I would upload some photos I took of fry today. So here i am... I am VERY tired and not feeling too well. 
These photos were taken not long after a w/c.. I can't remember if I already mentioned but i think there are about 65 fry still. You don't realise how many there are when they're so little still 

























Sorry i didn't really realise they are actually pretty crap photos. More will be uploaded on Monday when the fry ARE 3 weeks old..


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## Fasht

wish I have the courage and the money to breed bettas, great job so far though keep them pictures coming!


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## Gloria

*Photos!!*

So I wasn't going to upload any more photos until tomorrow since the fry will be 3 weeks exactly tomorrow. But while I was doing a WC today I couldn't help myself but take some photos. There was this one little fry that was harassing one of my snails. It has some FrozenBBS on it's shell and the fry was having a nom nom time  So yeah, here are some photos...


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## StarBetta

So cute! The snail must be thinking- I AM NOT FOOD!! stop biting me!!!


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## Gloria

lol... Yeah.. The snail doesn't seem to mind too much though as he just keeps cleaning the tank bottom... 

They are 3 weeks old TODAY


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## Gloria

I am leaving the computer now to do the babies wc for the day.Will most likely post more pictures when done...


----------



## Gloria

*3 Weeks Old*

So, like I said I most likely would, I have LOTS of pictures to show of my little fry from while I was doing their WC today. The are already 3 Weeks Old and getting very big.
Sorry about the picture OVERLOAD!..
ENJOY!
























































Also, When should they start showing colour?


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## StarBetta

I dont know the exact answer but I think they start showing color at 4-5 weeks old. But this is not an official answer, hopefully other people will give you the right answer. Btw, do you have the fry in a tub? That looks like one to me.


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## StarBetta

(not a bath tub) like a huge container (i call it a tub XD)


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## teasell

amazing how quickly they have grown


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## Sassington

I love this thread! I'm so excited to see their upcoming progress in the future!! So interesting!!


----------



## Gloria

Ok, Thank you StarBetta. I am not sure how I will even be able to tell that they are showing colour, but i'll figure it out and will definetly take LOTS of photos (like usual)..
@ StarBetta - Yes, they are in a plastic tub, a big one. My pair spawned in a 13L tank and I felt bad once I realised how many fry there were so at 1.5 weeks old I moved them to a BIG tub.
@ teasell - yes they are growning quickly. I am VERY proud of Dragon and Tiny with the fry they have produced. They are getting VERY strong too. When I siphon they are either fast enough to move or they are strong enough to swim back down the siphon against the current. I try to stop the current when one gets sucked up but...
@ Sassington - Thank you. I know my thread isn't that fantabulous, but non the less I try and make sure to update everyone on the progress just incase.. And I can't wait either for their ongoing and upcoming progress. I want them to be bigger already  lol


----------



## Sassington

I like it a lot! Being a new betta owner myself, I haven't got the chance to see the process from start to finish (or as far as you've gotten so far) and this is a great way to document it for those of us that don't know!  Thank you for doing this!


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## Gloria

Thank you Sassington. I try and keep it interesting but I don't often feel my log is exciting enough...
I haven't really been a Betta owner for long. When I got my boy 'H' was when I first started thinking of breeding, he was gorgeous but he died and my try at breeding didnt work.
It just so happened that Tiny and Dragon seem to 'love' each other. I think more than anything it was luck. It is AMAZING at how small they are when they hatch and how they grow. I am amazed that I can start to see their fins growing slowly. I love it. I never thought I would be so in love and compassionate about fish but these guys have me hooked!! I hope to do it again a few more times.
I would not be having success without all of the help I have recieved from the wonderful people on here. I have only had 1 person doubt me but I didn't let that stop me. The people on here are wonderful and VERY helpful. Some might come across rude or strong but you just have to be open minded 
sorry I am babbling. It's nice to have someone to talk to I am home all alone most of the time while my boyfriend is at work. I get lonely. 
I am glad you are enjoying the log.
I have some pics of Tiny to add from her water change, she was flaring at one of my other boys. SO cute!!


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## Gloria

*Ting... Flaring..*

















Tiny flaring at one of my other boys, during WC


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## Sassington

Aww, you're not babbling - I can relate to the lonely bit - my hubby's at work and he doesn't share the same enthusiasm about betta's as I do - even though I just started out, I get pretty excited watching my boy swim and flare and wiggle his tail at me - and buying stuff (toys and upkeep stuff) and taking pictures of him and bombarding the fine people on here of the good pics I actually *do* get... lol - my hubby just rolls his eyes.. 

I got my start in this aquarium thing a few weeks back when my daughter won two goldfish at a local fair and we had to get the bowl to accomodate them - they met their maker shortly after we got them so I was on the hunt for a more satisfying experience with fish and ended up walking down to the local petstore while getting my car repaired... the guy at the newly opened store (probably in his late teens, early twenties) saw me eyeballing Thomas (my betta) and told me that betta's were SO easy - "_drop 'em in and go"_... so I took Thomas home and hoped for the best... wanting to take the best care I could of him, I landed here... needless to say, if I hadn't found this forum, I don't think Thomas would still be with us.. I'm so happy I did - and here we are! 

*Now* who's babbling?? ;-) Glad to have met you, Gloria!


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## Gloria

lol... My boyfriend is the same lol..
aww. poor goldies.. Well thats good. i am gad I got onto this site too. I tired to look for an Aussie one but this one is AWSOME.. The people on here are SO enthusiastic and loving towards their fish and care for the fish.. It's great!!
lol.. a babble is always good lol
Nice to meet you to Sassington.. Hope you keep following my log


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## Gloria

So no pictue updates of the fry today. I am going to be VERY busy with work for the rest of the week as well. But I will be alone for the next 2.5 weeks while my boyfriend is away so I will most likely be on here 24/7 over that time...
Hopefully I will get some pictures up early in the weekend..


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## checkerzelda

Your betta parents are very pretty! I love dragons. I'm really looking forward to see how they grow up to be. *Q*


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## Gloria

Thank you checherzelda... I love Dragons too... I love my Dragons colourng as well. I cannot wait for them to start showing colouring... I can see their tails will definetly be combtails, just slightly can make it out but it's there


----------



## Gloria

*Fry @ 3 Weeks & 2 Days Old*

So... As per usual, while I was doing the WC my little fry were being totally cute, which in turn meant I HAD to take some photos 
Sorry for the picture overload, I just love these little guys and gals..
They are getting so big it makes it look like i have more fry than I do.. Alot of them were hanging out around the surface of the water. Would they have taken their frist breath yet?
Anyway, pictures.. ENJOY!!


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## Bettas Rule

Super cute fry!!! Keep up the good work they look excellent!!


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## tpocicat

Just what I love to see...nice healthy fry. Keep up the wonderful photos.


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## checkerzelda

Awww...so cute, they're quite big now. I suppose BBS is the way to go. Stay healthy and good luck! <3


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## Gloria

More pictures during wc today.. I am uploading two lots of picture uploads. One just to show you how they are looking and the other about some issues i'm worried about...

So.. First off.. Update on fry, now 3 Weeks and 3 Days Old... They are getting bigger and bigger and lots more energetic..


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## Gloria

Upload #2.. Some issues..

This first picture I am just wanting to know if the red is normal?! Most, if not all the fry seem to have it. Just wanted to know if it is normal and what it is?!









The next 2 pictures you can see a lttle little little fry just to the right under the snail. The first picture just has the fry under the snail and the second is a comparisson of the little fry to the 'normal/ majority sized fry'...

















There are 2 fry that are about the same size and insanly smaller than the rest of the fry. Is this something to worry about? Is there anything I can do to help them? There are 2 fry that are ALOT larger than the rest and I cnanot imagine that their growth-stunting hormone is helping the little guys... Should I put the 2 smaller fry in a jar and float in the tank or just let them be?

Thanx in advance for help.


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## Bettas Rule

Personally I would not separate them yet. They are still to young and with frequent water changes they should be fine. As for the red coloration, I am not sure. I can't really see anything personally. I would just keep an eye on them and try to keep your water balanced. If your water gets cloudy during water changes that could be your problem. But other than that I can't really think of anything off hand that would be causing that. I wish you the best though and I'll cross my fingers for you!:-D


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## tpocicat

I'd just let them be. Keep up with the water changes, the small ones will catch up in time. In my experience, there's always size differences. As far as the red goes, I couldn't see it in the pictures.


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## checkerzelda

Hey Gloria, we're asking ourselves the same question! Keep a close eye on them and make sure they don't develop a reddish forehead and spine like in my case. I lost a total of 6 fry because of this... Cloudy water is also an indication of a bacterial infection which I quickly learned when a water change is due. If you suspect it is, I suggest you remove the fry, scrub the tank and and do a complete water change. It really helps tonnes..most of my fry are no longer red on the gills after I did mine yesterday.  At 3+ weeks..my fry have been robust enough to withstand un-aged water and being netted out twice within 24 hours, so I think yours should be able to handle it too. Mine seem to be back to normal..I will continue with the major water changes. Good luck and I hope you won't need to go through what I did!


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## Gloria

Thanx everyone!!! I haven't noticed that the water has seemed cloudy... I do an 80% wc EVERYDAY (around the same time)... There never seems to be anything other than LOTS of snail pop and sometimes a little left over food (BBS).. I use a siphon to clean the tank... 
I will be back home from work in 3.5 hours so I might do a 100% wc and srub the tank just incase...
Thanks again everyone..


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## Gloria

IU am about to do the 100% wc.. Wish me luck.. Will let everyone know how I go when I am done... :$


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## xbecky685x

Hello!
I love your little babies! So cute! They are going to be very pretty fish when they are grown since you have such beautiful mummy and daddy bettas!  Its so exciting reading and following peoples spawn logs! I just love watching the babies growing!
Hopefully one day when iv owned bettas for longer i can learn more about bredding and give it ago myself..
How exciting! I look forward to seeing more of your babies! 
xx


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## Gloria

Thanks Becky, it's always really nice to have the people who look comment and let me know i'm doing an ok job, boosts my confidence 

Unfortunetly, I think I am going to loose ALOT of fry. I did a wc and they just don't seem right today. I haven't done anything different to normal but they just.. dont seem right. The one fry that is slightly smaller than the others is swimming to one side and breathing HEAVY and when he swims he/she kind of jolts. I will try and upload a photo. They all seem to be breathing heavy like, is that normal? Also they don't seem to be swimming properly.. Help? I REALLY do not want to lose all of my fry. I thought I was doing a good job


----------



## heathbar

Oh no, I hope you don't lose any. How did you acclimate the fry after the 100% WC? Maybe it's just some temp shock that they'll get over in a day or two?


----------



## Gloria

They were acting unuasual before I put them back in. It was during the wc while they were in the other tank waiting for the new water.. I had them in their old water and the tank had just been cleaned out so...  i will keep an eye on them and let yous all know how they are...


----------



## StarBetta

Hai! I hope the fry will survive, we're all crossing our fingers. I also have a question, did you make that sponge filter yourself? Can you tell me the steps you did to make it? Thx. Say Hi to the fry for us!


----------



## tpocicat

Best of luck with your fry. There will always be some losses, but I hope not many.


----------



## Bettas Rule

Gloria said:


> Thanx everyone!!! I haven't noticed that the water has seemed cloudy... I do an 80% wc EVERYDAY (around the same time)... There never seems to be anything other than LOTS of snail pop and sometimes a little left over food (BBS).. I use a siphon to clean the tank...
> I will be back home from work in 3.5 hours so I might do a 100% wc and srub the tank just incase...
> Thanks again everyone..



I think you are doing to many water changes. 80% everyday is too much. When you do that, you destroy the balance of good bacteria and by adding fresh water you only make it worse. Especially because you don't have any gravel to hold and protect the good bacteria. If I were you I would rush to the store and buy some live beneficial bacteria. Or you can take a sponge from another fish aquarium and squeeze out some of the bacteria that builds up in the filter into your tank. It will make it dirty but that's not bad right now. I only do water changes in my tanks every other day, and only a 30 to 40 percent change when I do. I hope they all make it!! If they don't though, don't be hard on yourself. This is how we learn :-D You are trying your best and that's the only thing that matters, so keep your head up and keep trucking along.


----------



## Gloria

Thanks everyone...
@ Bettas Rule - Thank you, I jsut gathered that since they have the hormone stunting growth it would be ok to do a wc daily. But I may do less. I think I still need to do daily ones as they're only in a 55L container, but i'll just siphon the yuck stuff out and maybe take out 10% or something?

They seem a bit better today. Maybe they just didn't like being moved. Still going to keep a VERY close eye on them..


----------



## StarBetta

Did you make the sponge filter yourself?


----------



## Gloria

Oh crap. Sorry StarBetta, I totally forgot you asked me that... Yes I did make the filter myself... I will pm you with the detials 
Sorry...


----------



## checkerzelda

Hey, how're your fry doing after the wc? Back to normal yet? I used to do a 10-30% wc every day after they turned 2 weeks and at most, 50% once a while because I was worried I'd disrupt the balance of the good and bad bacteria. I dunno..ppl say having a cycled aquarium is definitely good for the long term..but there's always the risk of getting an unexpected bacterial bloom. If the purpose of cycling an aquarium is to avoid nitrogen and ammonia spikes, then frequent large water changes should also achieve the same. Once they are strong enough to handle it.. And you'd get to remove the nasty hormone-filled water at the same time. Just that it's going to be more work for [email protected][email protected]

Anyway I think you've been doing a better job at keeping them healthy compared to me, lol. Good luck and looking forward to your updates!


----------



## Gloria

@ checkerzelda - I think they are ok, not too sure, haven't really checked on them today as I have had some personal/ family issues.. I normally watch them for about 2hrs a day (literally) but today I've only sat and watched for maybe 10 mins.. They seem ok.
They will be 4 weeks old in about 30hrs so I am excited about that, so long as all goes well..
Thats the reason I did the BIG wc, I have about 60+ fry in a 55L plastic container with 2 snails and a homemade sponge filter. So I gathered that 50%+ wc daily would be good to try and rid the growth stunting hormone.. I am scared now that I am doing too much as Bettas Rule pointed out. I am going to continue siphoning out the snail poop daily and maybe do a 30+ wc every 2 days. Not sure.
Sorry I am rambling.
Thank you, I thought I was doing an ok job too. And you are doing a GREAT job, it is not your fault a few got sick  Don't be too hard on yourself. Your fry look really great! I hope mine look that good in 30hrs when they are 4 weeks old.


----------



## heathbar

Congrats on 4 week old babies! I'm glad they are doing okay after that little scare you had.


----------



## Gloria

@ heathbar - Thank you, they still have about 24 hrs to go, but they are close enough to 4 weeks I suppose.. I am hoping I will not have any more scares. I am VERY attached to my little fry. I treat them like I would my own child  lol


----------



## indjo

Always keep in mind that you are the best judge because you're there. You need to learn from experience how to "read" the indicators - use other people's experiences as general guides. But you need to work out your own method on fry care (and everything).

As they get bigger, they will produce more wastes. You might (not saying you will) have to separate your fry into groups. Or like in my case, do a lot more wc and a total clean out every month.

You've done a great job thus far, in fact better than I could ever do - I always lose quite a few fry. Big congrats on your 4 week (soon) fry. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Gloria

Thanx indjo. I don't think they mind the big daily water changes. At first I was only doing about 40%-50% wc daily but since there are about 60+ fry sharing about 52L of water I felt bad and gathered that I would get as much dirty stunt growth hormone water out, so I decided to up it a bit. I siphong the water out and make sure I move very slowly so I don't stress them out, They don't seem too bothered as they jsut swim away when I get close or I go around them.

When you say seperate them, do you mean takng out the larger ones and putting them all into a different tank? I was already thinking I may need to do something like that as there are a few that are a bit larger than the rest, but they all seem to be slowly catching up to one another.

Thank you Indjo. I started with 103 fry and now have about 65 fry, so I have ALOT. Hopefully next time I wont lose as many. I mainly have you to thank for all of my success, your a good mentor lol


----------



## Gloria

SOOO... My babies are 4 weeks old today. I am so happy they have made it this far.. I will be posting pictures later when it is darker as I am able to get better pictures..
In other news.. My snails laid eggs last night :$ I am going to let them hatch as I have alot of people who have said theyll take some.. So now I will have fry and snail babies, lucky me..


----------



## Bettas Rule

Gloria said:


> Thanks everyone...
> @ Bettas Rule - Thank you, I jsut gathered that since they have the hormone stunting growth it would be ok to do a wc daily. But I may do less. I think I still need to do daily ones as they're only in a 55L container, but i'll just siphon the yuck stuff out and maybe take out 10% or something?
> 
> They seem a bit better today. Maybe they just didn't like being moved. Still going to keep a VERY close eye on them..


Yea I would do daily water changes then, just keep a general rule of leaving at least half of the water in a tank with no gravel and filtration. No filtration is fine to do 100% water changes but when you filter the water it's different. I am glad they all made it and I look forward to seeing them grow


----------



## Gloria

Thanx Bettas Rule.. I am now only doing 30-50% wc daily. Posting some photos from yesterday in 5..


----------



## Gloria

*4 Week Old Fry*

So... Yesterday November 14, my beautiful fry turned 4 Weeks Old!!
I didn't take as many photos as I usually would for each milestone, but I got enough for the mood I was in.. There are 10 photos in total and I have upload them all. Sorry about the back quality. Don't mind the polka dots in the background, I was in the middle of cleaning the room when it was dinner time for the fry..
4 Weeks Old:
















































































They don't look as good as other people fry at this age. They haven't really coloured up  Does that mean I am doing something wrong? There is only one fry with a little dark colouring on his/ her anal fin (i think thats the fin its on).. I will upload photos from today a little later, I am just doing some late spring cleaning


----------



## Punki

Looks like both parents had light base colors so all of your little ones may just end up beibng a lighter color. My male had a dark base color yet only two of my fry ended up dark, and they started out brown, while the rest looked like yours.  
This was my light colored ones at a month








pretty plain, no color.
and my brown ones had started to get color.








From my experience the browns color just showed up better at that point, but id say yours are on track and your doing fine


----------



## Gloria

Awww, thanx Punki.. I was just hopeing for some colour!! Im not sure about mum and dads base colouring, but their actually colouring is fairly light. But ok. Thanx.. Hopefully ill get some colouring soon but


----------



## Bettas Rule

I have noticed that in my plastic tub I cannot see color on my betta. This may be your issue. What I do is use a nice smooth glass and scoop out a couple fry, then I use a small white LED light to reflect off their bodies. This works for me, I also use this method for examining the fry and looking for culls.


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## StarBetta

Just a reminder to Pm me about the sponge filter  the fry are turning out adorable! I'm positive they will have color in a few weeks or so.


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## StarBetta

Keep up the good work!


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## Gloria

So thought I would upload some pictures of my fry.. Got some ok ones of the little boy/girl with colouring.. I got a better look at it today and it seems he/she is colouring up just like dad  It's the same red/ purple.. exciting.. So far I still only see 1 with colouring..


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## heathbar

I can definitely see some red coming in, congrats!!!


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## Gloria

thanx heathbar...
I found another little fry last night with some colouring. So i took photos of the 2 colourful fry. I will post them when I finish work in 3 hours


----------



## Gloria




----------



## Curlyfatbottom

way to go.
you made it to the 4th week.
looks like you got some strong healthy fry.


----------



## Gloria

oh  Thanks Curly.. I appreciate it.. They seem to be getting bigger eahc and everyday.. There are a handful that are VERY big, some medium and a few that are alot smaller than the others. But they are little piggies, love their food.


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

i know what your talking about. i have some little piggies to. every time i walk into my room, i see them swimming up against the glass saying feed me. 
my so call little one are turning 7 week this sat.


----------



## Gloria

lol... Yes I can't believe how cute they are... Wow, 7 weeks, that awsome  I cant wait for my little guys to be that 'old'


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

not until Saturday.
there only 6 week and 5 days old.
the more you feed them, the faster they grow. but they will poop a lot.
what are you feeding your fry now???


----------



## Gloria

[lol. Sorry had to laugh when you said:


> but they will poop a lot.


Umm.. They are getting Frozen Baby Brine Shrimp, Freshly hatched Baby Brine Shrimp (when it works) and I have crushed micro pellets to a powder a few times.
I think I need to feed more variety?


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

will its the honest truth.

so people will say yes and other will say no.
i'm just feeding my grindal worm and tubflix worm.


----------



## Gloria

i know, sorry, it just seemed like something i could get a giggle out of..

Yeah, I tried to culture microworms, daphnia and vinegar eels, but since I live away from anywhere that I can live foods all the cultured died off before they got here  wasn;t too happy about that, costed alot..

I have freeze dried tubflix worms, I was going to try it but i dunno how big to cut them


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

thats sad to hear.
it would of made your breeding a lot easier for you.
will have you try mosquito larvae???
fry love to eat them.
just make sure the larvae is small enough for the fry to eat.
never fed my fish freeze dried tubflix worm.
if your going to chop any food for your fry.
make sure they can eat the whole thing in one bite.
you don't want them to choke on there food.


----------



## Gloria

yeah 
i would have preferred live food, as I know it would be much better...
I did try to make mosquito larvae but I just got dirty water. There doesnt seem to be mosquitos near my house 
Yeah, that is why i havent tried to feed them anything other than the BBS and FINELY crushed pellets, I am so scared i wont chop it small enough for them. I might wait until their a little bigger :$


----------



## tpocicat

Have you tried microworms? They are very easy to culture.


----------



## Gloria

het tpocicat I have tried microworms.. By the time they got here they were dead..


----------



## tpocicat

That's really too bad, my fry just love them. There are breeders in Australia, have you tried to contact any local betta clubs or joined IBC? You may be able to find local resources that way.


----------



## Gloria

No picture updates just yet, but the fry are now 4 weeks and 5 days old.. There still seems to be about 60 fry and there are about half a dozen that are showing colour  Some have nice dark colouring while others are light, so far the colouring looks the same as dads purple/ red 
I will post some pictures tomorrow


----------



## Gloria

*4 Weeks and 6 days Old*

Some pictures I took just a few hours ago. They will be 5 weeks old tomorrow 
There still seems to be about 60ish fry. They are getting bigger. I am still feeding BBS and crushed pellets. I am thinking of starting Tubifex Worms sometime this week or next, as well as maybe some chopped up blood worms..
They love their food.. and their snails  still never stop harassing them.
There still seems to be a few that are alot smaller, but for the most part they are mainly the same size 
There are still only about 6 with colouring but I can see that some are starting to get a a little. I fall more and more in love with my little fry every day. It is going to be hard to let them go..
















































































Sorry about the major picture overload. I can't help myself :roll:


----------



## StarBetta

Oh my gosh! Their eyes look so innocent! I just want to hug them!!!


----------



## xbecky685x

I really do love your little babys makes me broody haha
x


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

Once you switch there diet to worm.
Like the tubflix.
They're going to grown like weed.


----------



## tpocicat

I can't get over picture number 2! Side ways look...hilarious:lol:


----------



## Gloria

aww thanx everyone...

The babies are 5 Weeks old today. When I get home from work I'll try and take some pictures.. again


----------



## BeautifulBetta

That second photo with the lil' face looking at the camera is absolutely PRECIOUS!! <3 <3


----------



## Gloria

*5 Weeks Old*

@ Beautiful Betta - Thanx. I thought it was a lucky shot, not great but still ok  It's like he/she is saying '"boo, im on camera.. Cheese"..

So.. again some more photos since the babies are now 5 weeks old today..
I have a feeling I may lose some soon.. :$


----------



## Gloria

I am not feeling too well today, so i apologise for any late replies.


----------



## Fasht

OMG! they're soo cute and big already! great job gloria ! love your babies


----------



## tpocicat

Sorry you're not feeling well...get better soon!


----------



## Gloria

Thank you Fasht.. The biggest one seems to be about 2.1 cm long while they rest are about 1.8cm - 2 cm. I will take some more photos today, just cause I love my babies 
Thank you tpocicat.. I am feeling better today.


----------



## Gloria

So as I was feeding the babies lunch I noticed a few fry that didn't look right.. They are swimming completely on one side.. :$ What is this from and how can I fix it if possible?


----------



## Gloria

So far today I have lost 1 fry. If ANYONE can tell me what this may possibly be.. PLEASe, let me know.. They are swimming to one side, like the above picture and seem unaware of the other fry around them. Then all of a sudden they will swim 'properly' down to the tank bottom and then back to side ways..


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

Haven't have that problem yet.
So I can't help you on that.


----------



## BeautifulBetta

:-( I really have no idea what it is...did you try looking it up on google??


----------



## Gloria

google search doesnt seem to display much. It is a possiblity that these little ones have eaten too much.. Should I skip a days work of meals and see how they go?


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Its not baby SBD is it? That was my first thought when I saw them like that. I've never had a sbd issue so I'm not sure...I really wish I could help


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Maybe start a thread in betta diseases and emergencies too, in case experts from there aren't looking in the breeding section?


----------



## Gloria

thanx BeautifulBetta.. From what I have read on google, all that is could be is:
1. SBD... overfeeding.
or
2. The water level is too high..


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Water level being too high?? :S I dunno how that would effect fish...They like more space lol. Its just me, but I'd maybe skip feeding for a day. I do that with my adults to free up the digestion and prevent constipation. The only bad thats come of doing that, was a few grumpy looks. I hope you find the solution soon <3


----------



## Gloria

Thank you BeautifulBetta.. Yeah im not too sure, I saw one post about it and that was it..
I have read a few posts on people thinking their fry have SBD and most people say to skip feeding for one day..
Maybe I am overfeeding.. I just worry, I though food would be good for their growth and there are 2 fatty snails in the tank. There are stilll 60 or so fry, so I feed 3 times a day. Maybe I should cut back to 2..


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Maybe give it a go for a couple days, see if they improve. If they haven't by then, maybe someone will have an answer on here that will be more useful than my answers LOL


----------



## Gloria

Thank you so much BeautifulBetta. I did get a reply in the diseases thread I made, by vil. So, I think I will skip a day of feeding and see how they go. Also maybe isolate the ones that are swimming funny.


----------



## BeautifulBetta

No problem!  just wanted to help  good luck with your little ones!


----------



## indjo

That does look like SBD. But the belly should be bigger.... not sure

Skipping feeding will solve the ones currently with problems but it will repeat itself when you feed.... perhaps even worse. 

Your options are to:
- separate the "piggies" and feed them less
- keep them together and feed all of them less
- feed frequent small amounts
- if you have live food that can live in your tank, such as tubifex or daphnia - feed that. IME constant supply of food will avoid them from being greedy. They will snack frequently but not enough to cause SBD. Scheduled feeding will make them greedy, specially if they feel the need to compete for food.


----------



## Gloria

So. either way I will most likely just have the same problem?
sigh.. i don't know what to do.
The best I can do is feed ever 4/5 hours. Would that be enough?


----------



## bettalover2033

I agree with Indjo. They will see no need to compete for food and fasting will just make them gulp down the food when you eventually give it to them, thus making them have SBD worse.

I think the best way to handle this would be to give daphnia (also like indjo said) because from many members, I have heard that Daphnia works wonders and the SBD was gone in a matter of a week or so. I have never used daphnia in my life, but from what i have read and saw with my own eyes, i would suggest it and back it up.


Also Feed them Every hour, Just in a lot smaller portions that you usually do. This will help them to be (less "greedy") [indjo explained]
Good Luck and Keep us posted!

-BL2033


----------



## tpocicat

So far I haven't had that problem. Sometimes, fry just don't make it. It's hard, but the truth. I wish you luck with your problem.


----------



## bettalover2033

wll lets keep a positive attitude on this problem. I believe your fry will survive and will live a happy life!

-BL2033


----------



## Gloria

Thanx everyone. I am having a very bad day today, so i will probably not show any positive attitude, so apologies now for that..
I have just finished work and am going to check on my babies now. I have had some responses in the other thread in the diseases section about this and am going to go ahead and follow that help. I wil probably do what OFL suggested and seperate that SBD fry into their own tank with some salt. will update later


----------



## Gloria

I have put the sick fry into their own tank with a heater. It is staying at a steady 28'c.. there are only 6 that seem to have SBD
I will fast them a day and see how they go..
The other fry seem to be very happy and healthy.. They are starting to chase and nip each other.


----------



## indjo

Sorry about your fry. They are and will always be competitive species. At this stage they're most likely trying to out grow others. Later they will fight others.... just be ready.

If its any consolation, I have one big filtered tank medicated though I kept it as clean as possible (siphoned poop every time before feeding) + cleaned filter and wiped walls and floor every week.


----------



## Gloria

Thanx Indjo. If I lose the 6 with SBD I don't thnk i'll be too upset, if it happens it happens and I just have to deal with it. I am trying to make sure the other 54 dont get it but.. I don't know how I can do this. I cannot feed every hour as in the morning I got to work for 5 hours (6am - 11am).. The best I can do it every 4-5 hour feedings. I have started using freeze dried tubifex worms, I just cut them up to make sure theyre not too big, they seem to like them..
There aren't too many chasing/ nipping, just a few. Most of them will swim away the second another fry comes near them.
There were these 2 that were doing ring-around-the-other-fry for like 5 minutes. It was really cute. I will upload a photo of it soon.
When should they start displaying aggression bad enough to be seperated? Not this young? Or yes?


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> Thanx Indjo. If I lose the 6 with SBD I don't thnk i'll be too upset, if it happens it happens and I just have to deal with it. I am trying to make sure the other 54 dont get it but.. I don't know how I can do this. I cannot feed every hour as in the morning I got to work for 5 hours (6am - 11am).. The best I can do it every 4-5 hour feedings. I have started using freeze dried tubifex worms, I just cut them up to make sure theyre not too big, they seem to like them..
> There aren't too many chasing/ nipping, just a few. Most of them will swim away the second another fry comes near them.
> There were these 2 that were doing ring-around-the-other-fry for like 5 minutes. It was really cute. I will upload a photo of it soon.
> When should they start displaying aggression bad enough to be seperated? Not this young? Or yes?


Well I was just giving an example. Though im sure feeding 4-5 hours is good. Also you are doing a great job! Your working hard. Work and fry is a huge responsibility!

-Bl2033


----------



## Gloria

Sorry i didn't mean to insult you, if I did.. I use to be able to feed them every 2 hours when they were little then I started working more. I am only doing short days at work but unfortunely we are short staffed at work so I am having to do 9-10 hr shifts without much notice, which puts me in a bad mood..
I had been having trouble with my BBS hatching so I got some Frozen BBS, which comes in little cubes, so i have feeding 1 cube 2 to 3 times a day. And the freeze dried tubifex worms come in little cubes so i also feed 1 cube per feeding.. I dont understand how theyve gotten SBD..


----------



## indjo

IMO it doesn't really matter on how much you feed. The greedy ones will try to gobble down as much food as it can in a very short time - not giving time for others to feed. If you feed less, some of the less greedy will get malnutrition (?) (not eat enough). This in turn will give you problems as well. 

I usually separate them and feed the greedy ones less. IMO this is the only sure way to avoid SBD. OR I leave live food in there, which might not be possible for you..... oh keep this in mind; today fry "A" is not greedy. But as it eats more, it's belly will expand and can take more..... and so on until it reaches its limit which = SBD. And visa versa - feed less they will have smaller bellies and eat less. So you may be switching the groups from time to time.

I used to work from 5am till 11pm and totally relied on live food or feed at night. It doesn't matter how or when they're fed as long as they eat something. Less food will only slow growth but they will stay healthy. The worse that could happen is having a midget betta - a 4 month old the size of 1.5 month. But this doesn't usually happen unless they got sick. So don't worry too much and care for them the best you can in accordance to your schedule. You've done a great job so far...... like I said earlier, you need to find what works best for you.


----------



## bettalover2033

Oh no, dont worry, i understand that things are not going as planned for you, but i just have faith and have a positive attitude and you can accomplish what you wish. IMO life is too short to dwell on anything else but happiness.

Anyway, i heard that tubifex worms work wonders. They make the fry strong and grow bigger and faster. It's like having steroids just for bettas lol. Sorry if thats a little inappropriate, but i thought i'd add that in there. You should really ask OFL (OldFishLady) what is the cause of SBD. I have a strong feeling that it is just what i think and thought it was from the beginning of my thoughts on SBD (over feeding) though you should still ask her and ask what can you do to help it because she is really good in the disease section. Also with their heath and genes. Just shoot her a PM and she will get back to you within the next hour or so maybe even tomorrow if she cant tonight.

-BL2033


----------



## xbecky685x

I hope your little babes are ok 
xxxx


----------



## StarBetta

Just posting to stay in touch... About the fry, just hope for a miracle and never doubt it. Maybe you can spot the greedy fry, put them in a separate tank, then feed them less (not too much!!!) like maybe half a cube will be enough for the greedy ones in there's not a lot of them. Then, after a while, gently put them back with the others and see how they do. You dont have to do this because I'm not an EXPERT in betta things, but you can see the other comments, maybe they'll give you some good info.  Post lots of pics of the fry for us!


----------



## tpocicat

I'm wishing you the best of luck.


----------



## Gloria

Thanx for the advise everyone..
I put a post in the diseases and emergencies thread the other day and had a reply from OFL. I took her advice yesterday. I took out the ones with SBD and put them into their own tank with a heater and 1tsp/g epson salt, set to 28'c. It has been 24hrs since they last ate. They are still showing signs of SBD but they do seem a little better.
The 'normal' tank I also fast for 24hrs. I just fed now and saw there are another 3 with SBD. sigh. Things just aren't going to plan. I have added them to the tank with the rest of the SBD fry. I do not know how to stop this from happening to ALL of my FRY!!


----------



## bettalover2033

With her help you should be fine! As well as the fry.

-BL2033


----------



## mountaintrout

A huge undertaking with the health of your babies is s commendable act. How are they doing ?


----------



## Gloria

@ betterlover - Thank you.. I have faith that with OFL's help I will get good results. I hope.

@ mountiantrout - Thank you. They aren't great, obviously. They are still swimming on their side. Some seem to be getting worse I believe. Some are swimming properly alot more often. As for the other 50 that are 'normal' I am keeping a VERY close eye on them just to be careful. I will try my best to help them, but if I am to lose some, well, there's not much more I can do.


----------



## bettalover2033

Always have hope. In the hardest of times!

-BL2033


----------



## StarBetta

Just hope for a miracle and dont lose hope. You might lose some fry. Are ALL your fry swimming on their side? Or just half of the fry?


----------



## mountaintrout

It is good to see such devotion


----------



## bettalover2033

I remember her saying that there is something like 40 or 50 fry and 6 or 12 of them have it.

I hope they're ok!

-BL2033


----------



## Gloria

There are about 60 fry. And I now have 14 that are swimming on their side. I mainly seems to be the bigger fry. I noticed today when feeding that my fatty fry zoom aroudnd cobbling up as much as they can and BAM instantly they are on their side..
I am going to start feeding smaller portions, more a day rather than 3 medium sized meals a day. Hopefully, all will turn out ok. I always thought I would only end having about 30, I have 60. So if I am to start losing some, I think ill be ok, but im not about to give up on them 
They deserve the best chance


----------



## mountaintrout

Please put up some pride pics of your fighters


----------



## Gloria

Pride pictures??

Below are actually some pictures of the fry I took last night that I forgot to upload. There are only about 8 with no colour now 
And yes, they still LOVE to harrass my snails lol


----------



## mountaintrout

Pride because you should be proud of all your work.


----------



## bettafish15

Gloria said:


> There are about 60 fry. And I now have 14 that are swimming on their side. I mainly seems to be the bigger fry. I noticed today when feeding that my fatty fry zoom aroudnd cobbling up as much as they can and BAM instantly they are on their side...


Feeding less often is better like you said, they could be getting little bouts of SBD when they fill themselves up with food and air.


----------



## Gloria

^ Do you see the completely BLACK eye?! I have never seen this before.. There are about 4 that have this. It's cute, but a little scary


----------



## mountaintrout

Don't think I've seen eyes like that. May just betta the pics though. Not sure


----------



## mountaintrout

Sorry ...be the pics...not betta


----------



## Gloria

lol.. Its ok, I gathered that's what you meant 
It's the Bettas but, There are a few that have it and I sit there and watch. The rest have white and then the little pupil. But the other few are just black. I will be keeping an eye on it. I think it's interesting. I hope they aren't blind or something :$









above is Tiny (mum), she was giving me this funny look when I was talking to her today, then she flared when I finished, so I talked again and she just sat there like above, looking at me. She's a cutie. It's not a great picture, but you get the idea. I will do updates on mum and dad soon


----------



## mountaintrout

I love the crowntails. I have read here before of folks not wanting much to do with them but to me they are the most beautiful. Just my opinion....not knocking anyone at all


----------



## BeautifulBetta

I totally agree  Crowntails are so beautiful. Tiny is sooo adorable!


----------



## mountaintrout

Beautiful pastel halfmoon on your DA featured page. If you have the time....

www.mountaintrout.deviantart.com


----------



## mountaintrout

Beautiful pastel halfmoon on your DA featured page. If you have the time....

www.mountaintrout.deviantart.com


----------



## bettalover2033

WOW! These pictures just made me want to breed even sooner! I love the fry! They are getting some color in too!

-BL2033


----------



## Gloria

I love crowntails too, but I honestly like female crowntails more than males. Well sometimes 
Thanx, I am trying REALLY hard! I have definetly learnt a few things and will fix those next time  Hopefully I get a couple that will survive through this spawn but, I think ive done ok for my first go, and considering ive only been a betta owner for only 4 months


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Go Gloria, Go!!  Female crownstails are definitely adorable


----------



## mountaintrout

You've done very well ma'am


----------



## bettalover2033

CT's are truly my favorite tail type! And I have to disagree. I think males are very nice because they are like little porcupines of the water. They can actually let down their fins while the females can't (really) do that so efficiently. I love when the males just spring their rays up!

-BL2033


----------



## Gloria

lol, that's a good way of looking at it  I have a pet porcupine, named Rico lol..
I haven't seen to many different tail types in real life, just in pictures... We mainly get VTs in our pet stores, Which I don't mind because I also like VTs. I was lucky when I got Tiny and P (my CTs) and I was just as lucky I got Dragon (as he is a dragon scale)..
I think it's amazing that there are different types of Bettas


----------



## BeautifulBetta

VTs is really all I get here too...The only VT's I own are three girls, but i'm just assuming they're VT's, I can't tell haha.
Occasionally we'll have CT's here, but I was REALLY surprised when I found Skyline the plakat...Nearly choked lmao.


----------



## Gloria

wow, I love those colours, Im not a huge fan of the plakats, not sure why. I like HMs but. I dunno, just havent looked at them enough


----------



## bettalover2033

I agree! I think bettas are the most interesting fish that i have come across! They have so much to them it's crazy!


Off topic:
That is so cute that you have a porcupine! I wanted one, but i was scared it would hurt me. If you hold them the wrong way, wont they hurt you?


----------



## bettalover2033

@BeautifulBetta: Where exactly do you live? You found a HMPK so that is excited!

-BL2033


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Im on Vancouver island, BC  he was the one they were trying to sell as a 'dragon fin'. PFFT. Still trying to figure out what colour he is tho haha. Maybe they meant dragonscale?


----------



## bettalover2033

Put up a picture of him and maybe I can tell for sure. (Dont put it up on this thread because that would be WAY off topic and rude)

-BL2033


----------



## BeautifulBetta

True story, I'll pm you haha. But Gloria!! You should post a photo of Dragon! I wanna see him


----------



## bettalover2033

As do I!

-BL2033


----------



## Bettas Rule

Gloria, from what I have read the most important part of fry growth is not food. That's a misconception that will always lead to SBD. In fact I spoke to a top grower who said that when he power feeds he is always prepared to lose some over SBD. While feeding a lot does help it is not as crucial to clean water. In my filtered tanks my fry get a 30 to 40 percent water change daily. I only feed twice a day tops. Many times I will time it to where I run out of brine shrimp for 24hrs before I can feed again. I also split my fry into 2 groups based off size; the larger fry in one tank and the smaller in the other. I have never seen power feeding work without killing fry. If you do a search on people's spawns with SBD you will find that people were doing three feedings a day. I agree with indjo that "free feeding" is a good idea; however keep in mind that because your fry are not used to this kind of feeding you may lose some to SBD in the beginning while they get used to the new feeding process. I am sorry for your loss and I hope everything gets better for you!!


----------



## Gloria

Thank You Bettas Rule. I used to be right on schedule with my feedings. Every 4 hours 3 times a day, and they would get about 5ml of BBS. It didn't seem like alot, but I suppose there are more BS then you realise  I should have been more careful an I realise this for next time  So hopefully I can correct it then. I am VERY embarrassed that this has happened my first spawn.
I am not too keen on the idea of having anymore fry with SBD. But, as I thinking I already suggested I am going to start feeding SMALL amounts, a few times a day, maybe every few hours, just a pinch of food maybe.
There are a few larger fry that to seem to bust their fins to try and get as much food as possible, so I may have to put them in their own tank. They aren't that much bigger than most others but just enough so that you can tell they are a little bigger..

I will do an update post on the 'good' fry, SBD fry and mum & dad in a few minutes.


----------



## BeautifulBetta

I <3 baby photos!  They make me happy haha


----------



## Gloria

*Update - Tiny and Dragon!*

So as I promised, here is an update on mum and dad (Tiny and Dragon)
p.s - You get to see photos of Dragon now BeautifulBetta 

First off Tiny.. Her fins are ALOT better now, it's only taken them 6 weeks to heal, which I think is pretty alright. She is alot bigger too, she was only 1.5cm (including fins) when I first got her and now she is just over 3.5cm (including fins).. Sine I spawned her she has become a bit aggressive too, she likes to attack her food, she not very elegant  She's also alot more energetic and hypo. Its ok but, it's gives her more character, she is a cutie..

Tiny after Spawning:








Tiny Now (Pictures taken today):
















And now for Dragon.. He has been pretty much perfect ever since the spawn, just the same as normal. He did sulk for a little while and ate a little less, but that only lasted like 2 weeks, I think.. I did have some trouble with him a few weeks ago, as it appeared he had had enough of being a VT and wanted to be a CT, just like Tiny.. lol .. Anyway, he has recovered from that, his tail isn't as beautiful and full as it used to be, but it looks good enough for now  

Dragon and his 'new' tail :roll::








Dragon Today, all better:
















Hope you enjoyed.. I will be doing an update on all fry now (next Post)..


----------



## bettalover2033

Beautiful fish! And amazing recovery. I love the female CT she is just so pure and full of life (From what I can conclude). More pictures later im guessing?

-BL2033


----------



## Gloria

*Fry Update - 5 Weeks & 5 Days Old.. PIC SPAM*

So, here I am going to do a small update on ALL of the fry. Now as some of you know I have had some issues with SBD. I have had to seperate 14 fry into another tank together as they all had SBD. I put them in a tank with 1tsp/g Epsom Salt and set the heater to 28'c and I covered the top with glad wrap..

SBD Fry:
Now it's only been a couple of days since the SBD fry were spotted and put in some treatment water, but luckily enough, some seem to have recovered, I am not getting too excited just yet, as I don't want to get my hopes up but so far there are only 5 of 14 left with SBD. The 9 that seem to have 'recovered' are swimming 100% normally and are full of energy again. The 5 still showing signs of SBD are starting to swim straight but aren't quite there and still have trouble. I have still got them all in the QT tank just until I am 100% certain they are ok to be in 'normal' water again. Also, I am now feeding them a VERY small amount a few times a day (which I think I have already meantioned a MILLION times, sorry)..

Some photos SBD fry:
























'Normal Fry':
So, these boys and girls are still going strong, thus far. They are VERY energetic  love swimming around their tank, most of the time they seem to swim singly but I have noticed over the last few days that they are constantly grouping together, its very cute  They are starting to chase one another and nip, its seems to be playful but I am unsue so I am keeping an eye on them  There colouring seems to be becoming stronger to  There are still a small handful with no colouring at all but thats ok. I noticed irridescence today too  very nice blue sheen.









































To conclude my update on the 'normal' fry I have a little story that happened yesterday, its a happy story 
My boyfriend has been away for 2 weeks at tafe and got home late yesterday afternoon. I have been ensuring to put my hand in the tank so that the fry know that a hand is not bad but = clean water, food and love. I put my hand in at wc time, food time and just when im sitting there, i just put my hand as far as my writst in and will sit it still and every now and then will wiggle my fingers, so they know i do move  Well, for about the last 2/3 weeks I have been putting my hand there I have not gotten ANY at all, no nips no touch nothing, they just swim away scared i guess. Then last night just after dinner I sat there with my hand in for a bit and my boyfriend came over and had a little look at how theyre doing. He told me how they're looking good and then asked if I got scared having my hand in there. All of a sudden the fry decided they were brave enough and I started getting little nips here and there  at first I got a fright and pulled my hand out LOL at myself then i told my boyfriend to have a go, he was a little chicken at first but in the end he was game enough to put in 1 finger.. Well, I was mixed emotions as he had his hand in for 2 seconds and this ONE FRY was rubbing up against HIM!! It was adorable, the little fry follwed his finger and just gave him cuddles. So today when i put my hand in, I got the same treatment, I am guessing by the same fry, but then it wasn't just one, there were a few giving me cuddles. less nips and lots more rubs and cuddles.


----------



## BeautifulBetta

awwww cuddly fries!! thats adorable  theyre looking great!!


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## bettalover2033

I'm glad to hear that they are doing GREAT! I hope to see more of the fry with SBD to be back in with the normal fry. Also I love how you keep the thread interesting.

I remember the last fry did the same thing to me. I put just a few fingers in and wiggled them and the fry just came up to it and started taking turns rubbing against them. It looked like they were going in circles But the first few times i had to cover my finger in their food and then they just started feeling more comfortable after that.

I love how you explain it as cuddles lol. It does sound cute and I can just imagine how they are. You are doing an amazing job! Keep it up! Your in for a treat! Soon it will look like your own rainbow in the tank!

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Thanx BeautifulBetta and BL2033


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## bettalover2033

Anytime!
So what is your favorite tail type?

-BL2033


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## Gloria

um well before I came onto this site I thought there was only VTs but have since found out there are aLOT more. I like female CTs, and I have got this thing for halfmoons atm. so yeah. i dont really have a favourite. what about you?


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## bettalover2033

My favorite tail type is Male CT's, but I have always wanted to breed HM or HMPK so they are my "favorite" right now.

-BL2033


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## kfryman

I'm glad that you fry are growing and that your female and male had a nice recovery


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## bettalover2033

kfryman said:


> I'm glad that you fry are growing and that your female and male had a nice recovery


I agree with you because the female especially had such an amazing recovery! Her fins look like they were never touched! Meanwhile the anal fin was practically off completely.

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Yeah, she REALLY stressed me out with her fins. I have had ALOT of trouble with my females. The first one I got jumped out of her tank and then the next 2 got dropsy. Then I got Tiny and she was only 1.5cm long in TOTAL, I was worried about her because she was the first one I got that was actually NOT a VT and was gorgeous. I don't seem to do well with VT females, but a CT, im good with  She is a fighter lol, shes had one of her rock ornaments fall on her and had Dragon tear her fins up. She's a lucky little girl. I don't really know how she lost her fins though. When I took her out of the spawn tank she looked fine, there was only like 2 tears, Dragon had been reALLY gentle with her, he got a little annoyed sometimes but i only ever saw him nip twice and I watched for the whole 3.5 hours  So i don't know if Tiny was stressed and they fell out or if she teared them herself. She had 2 tears then next moring, her fins were almost completely GONE.


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## bettalover2033

Ah. I see. Yeah i guess it will remain a mystery of how she lost her fins. Eithe way they grew back beautifully and fuller than ever. What more can you ask for?

I think its in the CT's genes to be such a fighter. And a good one at that!!

update. Again tomorrow!

-BL2033


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## tpocicat

Your babies are getting more beautiful all the time. I've never seen a SBD baby recover before, so it's wonderful to see your's get better/


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## Gloria

Fry are 6 weeks old today. I may post some photos in a few hours..


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## Punki

YAY! Im glad they are giving your hand some lovin, i love that part  I have had experience with sbd, my little "miss piggy" was in 2tsp of epsom salts for 2 months, i really had little hope of recovery with that amount of time and figured shed be special. She only got small amounts 2 times a day and i kept in touch with ofl the whole time as well and did her instruction but after 2 months of living alone in tsp of Epsom salts and limits on food she suddenly recovered. Compared to her siblings she has a big belly always, and her body is a bit short but she swims normally and re-adapted to the fry tank. I still have to watch her though because shes still a pig  But yeah dont give up hope, i went from 1tsp of epsom to 2 and waited 8 weeks and there was a sudden recovery


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## tpocicat

WOW! That's great to hear. I'm so happy for you.


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## bettalover2033

They're all growin' up so fast. I can't wait till the sexing part.

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Aww Thanx Punki, that make me feel a little better to know you had an issue with it too. I think my problem is either a genetic thing or due to the fact I fed them too much up until about 1 motnh. Maybe a mixture of both. I have 14 fry in the SBD tank but can only see about 6 still showing signs of it, the others I have in there still just to cover my butt. I have them on tsp/g but may up to 2 soon. I am only feeding them twice a day, very small amounts. They seem to get SBD the second they eat, so im keeping it low, for now. I hope im as lucky as you were with miss piggy.

I am VERY nervous for the sexing. That wont be too far away now will it? At 3 months?


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## bettalover2033

@Gloria: And you know what, to add to the SBD topic, Miss Piggy is perfectly fine now and has recovered. She is just beautiful and so active (from what I read).

And why are you nervous for the sexing? I think that's the most exciting part of breeding bettas. (IMO) Also Yup, at around the 4 month mark is when you are sure that they are what they are. Around this time, you *MIGHT* be able to see little dots forming, but when they are that young it is just fun to "guess" the sex of them. Are they 3 months old?

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Cause I think it'll be hard 
No they're only 6 weeks and 1 day. I still got a little while to go yet.


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## Gloria

Sorry no pictures today. They are very active and rarely stop moving which makes it hard to get pictures. Hopefully tomorrow I will have some that I can put up


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## bettalover2033

@Gloria: You never answered my question. Why are you nervous to determine the sexes of the fry? That is one of the most important things to do.

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Sorry BL2033. I am nervous about the sexing because Im not very good at telling the difference when they are young. I think i'll be ok but the idea of it still makes me nervous.
I was going to be selling/ giving away the fry at 3 months, I may have to wait until 4 months though to be sure of the sex...

In regards to my fry with SBD, some are going to have to be culled as they can't swim downwards. I am going to get my boyfriend to do it. I am not going to cull all the ones with sign of SBD, just the worst case ones. Id like to give the others a chance. I think we will cull this weekend. 2 days time.

The other fry, are ok. I am a little worried they are all getting SBD, but I don't know if thats just my mind playing tricks on me. I added a silk plant in the tank as I felt bad cause it looks so bare. I found a fry sleeping on it this morning. Picutres in next post


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## Gloria




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## tpocicat

AWWWW just too cute!


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## Punki

Looking good  Before you cull the non-down swimmers maybe you could try to put them in another container with 2tsp a gallon epsom for two days, when i used 1tsp i had no effect, only at 2 did i see any difference, but if you feel they are suffering at the surface (bodys getting air and drying issues) go ahead for sure. Im glad you have some help for what needs to be done though and i hope the ones improving continue!


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## bettalover2033

Are you sure you want to cull them so soon? Even if I was doubting that fry are going to live very long, wouldn't you like to see if they can pull through? Also have you tried the Pea method?

-BL2033


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## Gloria

@ Punki - I have had the SBD fry in 2tsp/g for the last 2 days, I feel like it has had some effect but im not too sure. I have had to work a little more than normal last week and this week so I haven't been able to watch them like I usually would. I am going to go and sit with them for a little while now. Do a wc, give them some early dinner and see how they all are.
@ BL2033 - I have been told not to do the pea method, and if I was to, I dunno how to do it and I can only get frozen peas..

I am not wanting to cull at all really, it makes me feel to sad. I feel bad that I made these little fry come into the world and am going to have to take them out. I am wanting to give them the best chance and I don't want to just give up and cull them. I know there is no way of knowing without trying, but it just pains me the thought of trying SO hard to get them better and they don't make it or only last a little while. I have talked to OFL and she has said is sounds like deformed swim bladder, she said she would personally cull as otherwise if it does fix now it may show up again when they mature.. Is that a genetic thing? Or is it just that these guys got it somehow due to incorrect growth or something? I just want to know because I am trying to plan my next spawn and I was going to use either Tiny or Dragon with one of their offspring (not sure if a good idea) or I was going to spawn them together again..
I don't really know what to do. They are 6 weeks and 3 days old today, maybe I should just treat them until 8weeks and if they don't seem to have inproved cull then.  I don't know.

Sorry for rambling on.


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## GreenTea

Yeah it's not good to feed bettas peas...it is extremely hard on their digestive system and can actually kill them sometimes!

I don't know what to say about the SBD fish...I'd say try the 2 tsp and if it doesn't work I guess you'll have to. I know it's going to be hard for you, it's good you have some support. Just do what you think is right. Better to end suffering that you brought into existence than let it continue right? And if it's deformed organs it's not your fault.


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## Gloria

Thanx GreenTea, that is how I see it too. I made the poor little guys and gals come into existence why let the suffer? I don't think it's fair on them being stuck at the top of the water and not being able to have free range of the rest of the tank. I think i started 2tsp/gal the other day, but now I think about it im not sure. So im counting today as day one :$ Ill give them a week and see how they're going.
I also noticed today a fry with a bent tail. Do I need to cull him/her?


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## tpocicat

I believe in letting nature take it's course. I know this shounds hard, but shouldn't only the healthest be used in the future for breeding? At a recent show, I was admiring a dragon male, and was told since I'm a breeder, buying him was a bad choice.

Peas are good for fish that eat plants, since bettas eat meat, it isn't good for them. I once used peas for an oscar that had SBD and it worked really well, but then they are omnivores.


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## bettalover2033

GreenTea said:


> Yeah it's not good to feed bettas peas...it is extremely hard on their digestive system and can actually kill them sometimes!
> 
> I don't know what to say about the SBD fish...I'd say try the 2 tsp and if it doesn't work I guess you'll have to. I know it's going to be hard for you, it's good you have some support. Just do what you think is right. Better to end suffering that you brought into existence than let it continue right? And if it's deformed organs it's not your fault.


What? That's crazy! I swear by that method. I done it at least once to each of my fish. It's worked wonders for me. I have never heard of that before. I always thought it eased the bloating and helped them digest their food quicker. (Like pepto bismo) for us.

Where did you read or hear this? I'd like to read the article and see what's the reaction to it.

-BL2033


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## Punki

I think the reason ofl is quicker to tell you to cull is because you have many more with the issue so it very well could be genetics instead, and i only had my 1 sick fry to devote my time to, and keep if need be so i completely understand. I was just throwing it out there because theres always hesitation and second guessing involved in these little ones, they are so unpredictable >.< I believe my miss piggy is a genetic issue because her body is "plump" and shes always round and quicker to be overfed, but with limiting her foods and giving her that 2 months of growth in epsom salts, i believe she grew out of it, but its really hard to put hope into as many as you have. If they are STUCK at the top with 2tsp then yeah i dont blame you, on 2tsp miss piggy was unsteady but she could swim down and around a bit before floating back up, so it was a hopeful situation.


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## Gloria

Well it's only been about 20hrs since I started the 2tsp/gal.. There are some that are still just 'stuck' at the surface, but I notcied a few are starting to be able to get down a bit before they float uptop again.. Im going to keep an eye on them and see how they go. No doubt I will update everyone and ask questions...

I am guessing there is no way I am able to find out if this is a genetic thing, since mum and dad are LPS bettas?!


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## Gloria




----------



## GreenTea

Oh yeah, a pea will make a betta poop a lot, but their digestive system is designed to digest live or dead high protein matter. They are carnivorous fish and would not seek out plant matter to eat if left without food. Peas are extremely sugary and starch laden as well.

Here's a source from this forum, second page - http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=16058

Common sense and understanding of what constitutes the bettas diet will lead you to the conclusion that putting a starch laden vegetable eaten by people isn't a good choice for a carnivorous freshwater fish. Lots of people do this, but it doesn't make it a good idea. Epsom salt, fasting, change in diet, removal of certain foods, and flaring are much gentler and less harmful ways to deal with bloating and constipation.


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## GreenTea

Also good luck with your fry Gloria...Yeah there's not really a way to know unfortunately...Trust your gut and do what's best for them. Also I wasn't trying to say you brought them in to suffer or imply it's your fault necessarily, reading my comment back it sounded kind of weird but it doesn't sound like you took offense, but just wanted to say sorry if it came off like that.

Also what is the bent tail fry doing? I culled one just about an hour ago who had a bent tail and was spiraling, but there seems to be another with just a slight bend who is doing fine. With my spawn I'm planning on giving away fish who aren't ideal for free to members who I know are responsible owners, that may or may not be an option for you since you're down under, don't know what the demand is there..


If you plan on breeding in the future, I'd take notes on what you fed, when and how much, and if there's an issue with a future spawn, note any differences or similarities, you know? That's the only way I can think of that might help illuminate whether or not it's a genetic issue or from food/overfeeding. Good luck to you, I know this must be hard.

Are they all that Cambodian/cellophane type color?


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## Gloria

Thanx GreenTea. I didn't take any offence. I know that I made these little guys come into the world and whether it is due to something I did wrong or if wasnt my fault at all it is still my responsibility to deal with that, if i need to cull then that's what has to happen. But no i didn't take offence but thanks for apologising anyways 

He/ she seems to be perfectly fin *knock on wood*...The last time I checked he/she was just swimmin around. It only looks bent sometimes, but it is definetly bent, ill try and get a picture at wc time.. I can't really tell if it's bad because its not always noticable but anyways.. I am planning to give some of these guys, if healthy enough, to family and friends.. My boyfriend has 3 sisters and 2 of them are going to take one each. He said one of them would be fine with one even if he/she is 100%. I will just keep an eye on him/her but..

Yeah, i will do that. I have got a little log book ive written everything in. So yeah, if I do choose one of the fry to spawn back to mum/dad I will continue it. Thank you. This is REALLY hard, it's definetly taking it's toll on me, I am losing alot of sleep over this.. I know definetly undestand why eveyone on here suggests NOT to use store/ pet shop Bettas..

um.. Yeah pretty much. Not have really turned out like dad. they're mainly like mum, who is cambodian. That last photo only shows the one with little colour. I have about a 50/50 ratio of fry that are that light and 'colourless' while the other half is a gorgeous dark burgendy/red colour. I will HAVE to get a phot, if the little buggers stay still enough


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## bettalover2033

That is very cool. I have a log book as well. It really helps in the long run. I also write observations based on their behavior, color pattern, how long it took for them to embrace, ect.

-BL2033


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## Punki

Dontlet it bother you too much Gloria, i know thats better said then done though. Id just give them a few days and see how they handle the epsom salt changes and then decide from there. Luckily their swim bladder issues have them at the surface and not at the bottom of the tank, they can at least get some air at the surface  I pretty much assumed after a week of 2tsp of epsoms and limited feeds and little improvement that it was genetic, but since i only had 9 fry total and only one with swim bladder i just waited a month and as she grew and the epsom salts kept some of the pressure off of her swim bladder she outgrew it but she is still "special" in the sense of her portions have to be watched because her body is a bit shorter and fatter then the others. In my frys case i believe it was my feeding and her piggyness. She was the only selfish one, id laugh and named her miss piggy because of her eagerness to eat all day long while the rest ate moderate amounts but i think the constant eating slowly put pressure on her bladder as she was at critical points in growth so the epsom salts during future critical growth reversed it thankfully. Poor little ones and poor you! I know its stressful and hard to decide on these little lives but whatever your gut instinct ends up being will be the right choice in your situation, so try to rest easy and always remember your healthy little ones your doing so well with also


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## Gloria

Thanx Punki. Your so lovely.. I will figure it out. I am in two minds about it atm but eventually I will decide what to do. I am giving it a week or 2 to see if they improve and will most likely make my decision from there...

@ BL2033 - I did exactly the same thing in my spawn log.. lol... It was fun but. I was thinking about transferring it to a the computer in a document just for the times im too lazy to go and get the book lol.. im rambling, dunno if that make sense..

I have been constantly looking at Aquabid for a Dragon CT. As I want to bred Tiny with one.
Today I found a cute one that I really like. I want everyones opinion on him and the seller. I REALLY want to get him and ive even had the ok from my boyfriend.. Do you think he looks breeding quality?
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettasct&1323256802


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## BeautifulBetta

He's a beauty!  I was actually looking at him too haha. Not to buy, just to drool over


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## Gloria

lol BB... Keep your eyes off my boy  lol.. I have to make sure I can get him shipped to me yet.. I am VERY unsure on the whole aquabid purchasing process and shipping etc.

Does he look ok to breed but? Like he looks like a good quality?


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## tpocicat

He looks good to me. His rays could be a little straighter, but that could only be because he is young.


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## StarBetta

About the fry: Don't feel too sad if they die (but hopefullyy they live) , I'm pretty sure everyone who spawned fish on this website had a bad spawn at least once


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> @ BL2033 - I did exactly the same thing in my spawn log.. lol... It was fun but. I was thinking about transferring it to a the computer in a document just for the times im too lazy to go and get the book lol.. im rambling, dunno if that make sense..
> 
> I understand what you mean. Trust me...I ramble on a lot and don't notice it until after I finish posting it. It's a lot easier that way as well. Though at times it can be easier to have the book when you don't feel in the mood to get on the computer. Either way would work. Though you just have to adjust things according to your personal settings.
> 
> I have been constantly looking at Aquabid for a Dragon CT. As I want to bred Tiny with one.
> Today I found a cute one that I really like. I want everyones opinion on him and the seller. I REALLY want to get him and ive even had the ok from my boyfriend.. Do you think he looks breeding quality?
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettasct&1323256802


Very pretty CT! He isn't a dragon though. His "face plate" isn't the color of his body nor is it as "thick" as real dragons. He is a beautiful fish regardless.

-BL2033


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## Gloria

Bugger. Well there goes that plan then. I really want him but I am not getting him if he's not a Dragon


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## Gloria

*Fry Update*

So just a quick update on the fry.. The sick ones' are well, still sick, they are able to swim about but still struggle to get to the bottom of the tank and eventually just float back up anyway.. There are a few in there that seem to be back to normal, swimming strong.. One in particular has become quite the bully and I am thinking I may have to jar him/her?! Is he/she too young to be jarred? They will be 7 weeks olf in 2 days..

The 'healthy' fry are doing very well at the moment *knock on wood*.. They all seem to be getting along rather well with the occassional nudge for "move outta my way brother/sister!" They still like to hang out together rather close, which I would fin dvery annoying but they seem to like it. Some have started hanging around the bottom of the tank ALOT too just chilling out down below 

This is a silly question and I know I have seen it asked somewhere before but cannot seem to find it but, do ALL fry have an eggspot when they are young?

Here are some photos of the healthy fry. Sorry not so many, they are so active I just cannot get a photo, no matter how long I sit there and beg for them to stop for a minute. They just keep zooming around. Anyways:















"Wow, do I always look this good" lol..


----------



## Punki

All of mine have eggspots STILL, even my males that have blown bubble nests and been given away and were aggressive and had longer fins. Its only now at 4 months that the eggspots are becoming tiny on some and poking out on others. Sexing was/is SO HARD FOR ME! lol! Those pics are adorable, especially the looking good one. They remind me of my babies


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## bettalover2033

I'm sure you can find a dragon a lot better than him. Try looking at Hopdiggity. Great fish! I think you might be looking for a CT though right? Not HMPK's or HM?


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## Gloria

@ Punki - oh ok. I just noticed last night when I was taking the pictured that some had them well most had them. I only saw like 2 without one, but they are only JUST seeable (if thats a word lol)..
They do look like yours, I think that too. But your babies are ALOT cuter!!
@ BL2033 - Thank you, but is that person able to ship outside of America? I live in Aus, as far as I can tell there are no breeders here, not that I can find, I had someone give me some links to some websites but I still couldn't find any breeders..  Yeah I mainly want a Dragon CT because Tiny is a CT and that's who I'd spawn, but I REALLY do love HMs too..


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> @ BL2033 - Thank you, but is that person able to ship outside of America? I live in Aus, as far as I can tell there are no breeders here, not that I can find, I had someone give me some links to some websites but I still couldn't find any breeders..  Yeah I mainly want a Dragon CT because Tiny is a CT and that's who I'd spawn, but I REALLY do love HMs too..


Hopdiggity (I think) is a transhipper so if she is indeed that then she will definitely be able to ship outside the USA. Also I just took a quick look on AB and didn't see any CT Dragons. Sorry. Though if you are still interested in a pair or maybe just one, I would recommend Hopdiggity because she has amazing prices and they are going FAST! I keep forgetting that your in Australia.

Fry question: Not all fry have an egg spot when they age. Usually only the females develop them, but males have been known to have egg spots and then loose them when they reached a mature breeding age.


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## Punki

If you think mine are cute then your in luck because they looked like yours at that time xD I tell them all their pretty. I think my fish have high self esteem XD


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## Gloria

@ BL2033lol I know, everyone forgets I live in Australia, it's a pain in the butt, you guys are SO lucky, you have a wonderful supply of Bettas, tanks, equipment etc and for SO CHEAP!! I got a little 1g tank to use as a hospital tank, it cost me $25, the 8L tank I got for my brother for Christmas this year cost me.. $50!! 
Do you know how I can contact hopdiggity?
Oh ok, well they are still too young to sex but I thought I'd start looking out at it. But I still have around 60 so it'll be hard to keep track 
@ Punki - Oh but yours are ALOT cuter, even around the same age as mine, And yours have a larger lot of colour. I have actually noticed that some are starting to get ther shimmer that they're dad has, non so far seem to have Dragon scales, which sucks 

So can I start to Jar, or is it too early still?


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## Punki

You can jar as early as 4-6 weeks, but make sure they are warm and for a day or two let them see their siblings without being able to get to them so they dont get lonely and depressed. I read dragon scales appear much later, so dont give up hope on that yet


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## Gloria

Oh ok. I just feel bad cause they're so little still.. But this one little guy/gal is just harassing the others. It looks like he/she just swims around and when he/she sees another sibling goes for the 'kill'. He/she will just chase that sibling until another is found and the others just swim away. Big bully! lol. Its character though I suppose lol. Noones been hurt but which is a plus.
Oh ok cool  I REALLY hope I get some!!


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> @ BL2033lol I know, everyone forgets I live in Australia, it's a pain in the butt, you guys are SO lucky, you have a wonderful supply of Bettas, tanks, equipment etc and for SO CHEAP!! I got a little 1g tank to use as a hospital tank, it cost me $25, the 8L tank I got for my brother for Christmas this year cost me.. $50!!
> Do you know how I can contact hopdiggity?
> Oh ok, well they are still too young to sex but I thought I'd start looking out at it. But I still have around 60 so it'll be hard to keep track
> 
> So can I start to Jar, or is it too early still?


Yes. Just go to one of her acutions:
[email protected].
Thats her e-mail Also if you got to one of her auctions and then on the top right corner you will see (Search Feedback Forum about Seller)
(Ask Seller a Question)
(Report this Auction) ect. You want to go to: Ask Seller A Question 
then there you have contacted them.

I wish it were easier, but unfortunately it isn't. Also if I were you, I wouldn't jar any of them yet. They should be expected to nip at each other. Its like a form of showing dominance and just like what would happen in a sorority.


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## Gloria

Than BL2033.. I will try and get into contact with her, see what she can do for me.

Oh, ok. I will maintain to just watch them then


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## Punki

Yeah as long as they arent damaging each other then they are just establishing their pecking order. I had one fry who was ripping tails and making them all angry, once he was gone the peace returned but i also had chasing at this time and was told that either way was okay, but i preferred to leave it be xD


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## bettalover2033

It's is YOUR judgment call on how far the nipping and chasing goes, but remember that this is more intense when they are 5-6 months of age and most males are trying to claim the whole tank.

-BL2033


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## bettalover2033

This was a duplicate reply (sorry)


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## Gloria

Yeah, I just wanted to check.. I will keep an eye on him/ her. I can't see that there is any damage being done and its only been going on for 2 days. So i might just leave it until it seems BAD


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## Punki

This may seem silly but at one point i rearranged things in their tank as i was cleaning and my dominant fry seemed to back down after that. Like new territory. Just another idea


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## Gloria

True, thanks Punki. This little gal/guy is actually one that has/had SBD and is still in the SBD tank and I have nothing in there but a heater and thermometer. Maybe he/she is feeling much better and isn't happy that everyone else can 'play'?!


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

will try to put in some plants.

that did the trick for me.
i still have my spawn together.
9 week in a few hours.
but my spawn is 1/4 of your.
but there big.
when i say big.
they're big about 2".
few way you can sex them.
mouth
male tend to have there mouth point up
female tend to come to a point like a football
body
male slimmer body with a straight back
female thicker body with a curve back
fin
male longer fin(anal fin tend to come to a sharp point)
female shorter fin(anal find tend to be flat)
hope this help


----------



## Punki

Maybe thats it, maybe they took in the new territory as their space and i think instinct does tell them to pick out the weaker siblings. That fry will probobly settle down once back in the big tank, until then id just keep an eye out.


----------



## Gloria

Thank you Curlyfatbottom!!! I can't really get any live plants here as they aren't really that good, I got a small piece of driftwood with anubias nana on it and it cost me $35 :O
Thank you on the how to sex the fry too. I did have Indjo tell me how to do it as well but I was also wanting to know how others to it. It's interesing to know how everyone does things. Im glad to hear your fry are ok. You will have to update your thread with some pictures for us now that theyre nearly/ already are 9weeks..
Mine I believe are still too young to be sexed but I would still like to try and have a go at sexing some of them, not that it's easy with 60..
@ Punki - Yeah I think that may be what it is. He/she will be ok. I dont want to keep him/ her in there but at the same time I am scared that he/ she will just get sick again...

I am halfway through doing my wc on both fry tanks and found a dead one in the 'healthy' fry tank. It wasn't there last night or this morning. Poor little thing, it was alot smaller than the rest of the fry. Im not too upset, I am a little but not too much. I am starting to get so frustrated though that I just want to cull them all and start agian  but I wont that wouldnt be fair to the ok ones and ive worked to bloody hard to get to this point as it is..

Sorry I rambled on ALOT. Just alot on my mind atm I guess.. Again sorry.


----------



## Fasht

awe! your fry are soooooo cute, makes me really wanna breed my copper HM <3


----------



## Gloria

Thanks Fasht. They are VERY adorable. I have always loved Betta but never thought I would have a go at breeding them, I am glad I have had a go but. It is ALOT of hard work and you really do have to kinda of have a schedule but in the end it is worth it. You also have to keep a positive outlook, sometimes things don't go as according to plan but you have to keep your chin up. I LOVE the HM in your avatar, I posted in you thread and think if you REALLY are serious about breeding make sure you have done the research and know 100% on what your process is going to be and have food and what not.. I think you should breed you red copper HM.
Thank you for looking at my thread, it means ALOT


----------



## Fasht

Oh your welcome! I've been doing my share of researching and I think I'm up for it. Though I won't start breeding till the whole house is properly heated and till my finals are over. So for the mean while I'll be culturing infusoria to cut down the expenses. Then I'll go for hikari betta first bites after a week or two and oh I still have to pick a female. I might give my new black orchid CT to a friend as a bday present


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## Gloria

Well that's good that you have done some research.. Make sure you have some back up food just incase your infusoria doesn't worl out, that's what I had to do, so I ended making a BBS hatchery and hatching BBS I also got some frozen BBS... Yeah it is VERY expensive, I am offically poor, literally.
Why are you going to give your CT away?


----------



## Fasht

well, I thought I was a CT betta person, but for some reason I was missing the HM love lol, well my friend wanted a blue betta for her bday so this one has a smidge of blue on him and he's really pretty and I really don't have much room for him right now cause my 3rd aquarium is still cycline and I can't put him in there. the one that he's on right now doesn't have a heater. so I feel sorry for him =(


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## Gloria

Oh Ok.. Well yeah if you are tough on space at the moment wait until you are breeding then it will be even worse..
It's a shame that you are going to give your CT away, but im sure your friend will REALLY appreciate it..
I hope you continue to let us know how you are going in your thread..
I also hope that you keep on following my thread


----------



## Fasht

Ofc I'll be updating as to when I'll start picking up a female introducing them and such. yeah she deffinitely will and I do follow your thread alot even if I don't leave a message I always check how your fry looks


----------



## Gloria

very cool.. im going to start posting in your thread about your spawn 
Awww... thanx. my thread has been a little depressing lately, so sorry about that.


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## StarBetta

Your fry are too adorable! I just want to squeeze them! The thing i LOVE about fry is their HUGE black eyes. That is soo cuddly! Especially when they look at you!


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## Gloria

lol.. Thanks.. Yeah they are adorable. Sometimes it really get to me that we can't just pick them up and give them a hig but oh well. I know they love me and I love them 
Yes they do have adorable eyes


----------



## StarBetta

If only I was a fish and only if fish can hug each other, I would hug them XD

On the other hand, how many fry do you have in total?


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## Gloria

it would be cool...
Well since there are so many still. I think there are just under 60 fry still


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## Curlyfatbottom

here is a pix of them at 9 week


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> This may seem silly but at one point i rearranged things in their tank as i was cleaning and my dominant fry seemed to back down after that. Like new territory. Just another idea


Yes this works very well! Bettas are territorial fish and once they establish their territory and another wants it, they will compete for it and continue to do so until one is dead. Also when you rearrange the territories, they feel the need to find their "home" again and when they don't find it, they are going to find another place.


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## Curlyfatbottom

bettas don't fight to the death.
trust me on that.
but a bullies fish can kill.
just keep a eye on them.
once u notice that they're breaking scale, thats time to find who's the bully and remove them.
plus the one thats injury.
sibling are mean toward each other.
once the scale is broken.
they don't have a line of defense to protect there flesh.
which other sibling will pick on the wounded and peck away the flesh.


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## Gloria

I went o be at 5AM this morning and woke up at 9:30AM, so please excuse me if I am a little rude today 

wow curly, they are huge, absolutely adorable!! I haven't noticed any bad biting or anything like that yet, they are fairly peaceful but a nip here and there if one wants another to move.
I can't really add anything to the tank as I have salt in it for their SBD but I am keeping an eye on them 

I am NOT happy today. I woke to find another *4* fry with SBD!! I am starting to get over this


----------



## Gloria

I have a few questions to ask today. I am not with in and im in a bit of a bad mood as previously mentioned. I am getting sick due to being so run down the last week/2..
1. Can I put my mini moss balls in with my fry even thought they have 2tsp/g epsom salt?
2. Can snails be in a tank with epsom salt?
3. I noticed today that my fry are on the bottom alot, I was just wondering if this is normal? They look to me like they're looking for food? Would this be the case? If so, does that mean that I am under feeding them?
4. Is it ok that the tank is at 29'c/ 30'c?
5. I don't know if I am just panticing due to having so many problems at the moment but I am just wondering if my fry are under sized. The largest is 2cm head to tail and the smallest is under 1cm. They are 7 weeks in aout 5 hours.
6. Punki?! When you had Miss Piggy in her 2tsp/gal epsom salt how much and how often were you feeding her? What were you feeding her?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the questions being so stupid.


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## GreenTea

1. Yes the moss balls will be fine! I'd be sure to squeeze and rinse them out with fry tank water before putting them in the fry tank.
2. I don't know, what kind of snails do you have? Try google? 
3. Even if they're looking for food it doesn't mean you're underfeeding them necessarily. Towards the beginning of their lives fry tend to stay towards the top of the water, and tend to get closer to the bottom at about 6 weeks or so...
4. That's pretty hot....84 is usually about the highest temp adults do well with..
5. Here's a link to a fry growth chart - http://www.freewebs.com/krishsbettas/frygrowthchart.htm - So they seem to be just under normal.


Sorry you're having such a hard time..


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## Gloria

Thank you Green Tea.
I have got a fry grow chat website that Indjo gave me. I just couldn't find it. Thank you again.


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## GreenTea

You're welcome. Is your fry tank super hot because it's summer there? They're probably old enough that adding slightly cooler water over the next couple days to slowly lower the temp would be alright.


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## Gloria

It has been cool the last 2 days as it's been pouring rain. I will just turn the heater down. I had it set at 26'c and the thermometre was reading between 29'c and 30'c.. hopefully the rain will stop so it's not as cool. Thanks GreenTea


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## GreenTea

Well if I'm correct 30 Celsius is about 84 - 86 Fahrenheit?


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## Gloria

yeah about 86'F


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## Gloria

so I am like Toasting my fry? :$


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## GreenTea

Yeah, kind of.. I mean 76 - 82 is normal, and 82 is kinda the high end for regular day to day, some people turn it up to 84 for breeding, but I've heard of nothing higher. Maybe some others will chime in...It's possible the heat is stressing their systems. Just turn it down and the water will gradually cool. Personally I'm keeping my fry tank at 80, and is what I'd recommend.


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## Gloria

oh great...
thank you GreenTea.. I am feeling too unwell to stay awake. I can barely talk, my throat is so sore I cannot swallow. Its only 9PM, but for tonight I am off. I will turn down the temp in the tanks and see how they go. Thank you again


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## GreenTea

Oh gosh go to sleep! Maybe you'll get more input tomorrow. I hope you feel better and your fry are ok.


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## tpocicat

I'm sorry you're not feeling well Gloria. Take care of yourself! That said, I keep my fry tank at 80 degrees F.


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> I have a few questions to ask today. I am not with in and im in a bit of a bad mood as previously mentioned. I am getting sick due to being so run down the last week/2..
> 1. Can I put my mini moss balls in with my fry even thought they have 2tsp/g epsom salt?
> 2. Can snails be in a tank with epsom salt?
> 3. I noticed today that my fry are on the bottom alot, I was just wondering if this is normal? They look to me like they're looking for food? Would this be the case? If so, does that mean that I am under feeding them?
> 4. Is it ok that the tank is at 29'c/ 30'c?
> 5. I don't know if I am just panticing due to having so many problems at the moment but I am just wondering if my fry are under sized. The largest is 2cm head to tail and the smallest is under 1cm. They are 7 weeks in aout 5 hours.
> 6. Punki?! When you had Miss Piggy in her 2tsp/gal epsom salt how much and how often were you feeding her? What were you feeding her?
> 
> Thanks in advance and sorry for the questions being so stupid.


I'm sorry for a bad week. Trust me there is light at the end of the tunnel. You'll get there!

2. Only Certain snails can be in a tank with epsom salt because only a few can tolerate different salt levels. So as suggested above, i'm sure you'll find an answer on google.
3. If the fry are at the bottom at this age, it's perfectly normal. Fry are always going to be looking for food, as it is their instincts as young fish. All fish will keep looking to feed themselves because their instincts haven't changes to "stay full" (not to die). In the wild when they are always on the look out for food because they wouldn't know when they would eat again. So fry and other fish have the same idea. They don't know that you will feed them every day or every couple of hours.
4. Yes that't perfect for fry. Though if there are any warmer days over where you live, I would suggest you turn it down a few degrees.
5. GreenTea has already given you the growth chart, but just to add, fry that are small (undersized) tend to live a little longer than fry that are opposite. I remember reading this from an article. I don't exactly know which one though. I'll look for it somewhere so you could read for yourself if you'd like.


----------



## Gloria

*7 Weeks Old*

Hello everyone.. Just a brief update as the fry are now 7 Weeks Old. I lost 3 today, but it's ok, doesnt matter.. I still have them all on epsom salt just for a little while longer I think, maybe for 1 more week..
I added some fake plants, mini moss balls and ornaments into their grow out tank today.. DON'T worry, they are vERY soft plants and the ornaments have no sharp bits!!
Just a few photos to show, I took 14 but I don't know i'll uoload them all.. Lets see:


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## tpocicat

You're fry are looking very good! What are you feeding them?


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## bettalover2033

They look beautiful! I love the bright color. They are so tiny, but look at the moss balls like "You said something tough guy?"

I'm sorry for your loss, but that is just what comes along with breeding any animals. The fourth picture, if you look close enough at the betta that's looking at the camera, you will see that it's mouth looks to be a little "circle" shape. The pictures are very good considering they are in a bucket. How many gallons is the grow out?


----------



## Gloria

Thanks guys. They are getting Freeze dried Tubifex worms, Freeze Dried Blackworms, Frozen Bloodworms, crushed pellets and sometimes some BBS.. I try and alternate through the above foods, just to give some variety ..

Yeah, they are a little bit smaller than they should be but it's ok, they're still cute  lol they seem to really like that ive put some stuff in there, I have a small terricotta pot in there, they love it lol. And the baby moss balls are a hit too  
The pictures are ok, more blurry than normal but its ok.. The grow out is 55L, so about 14 galsons... But they aren't all in this one, I have some of the SBD fry in a seperate tank.


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## Fasht

they look good gloria! can you tell what genders and tail type they are at this age?


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## Gloria

Well as far as I can tell they are all combtails, which I already knew was going to happen since mum is a CT and dad is a VT. But I could see their tails starting to form I think when they were about 3weeks..
I can't really tell whos male or female yet, theyre still too small  plus im inexperienced sexing lol


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## Fasht

ahh lol, if you think that's hard try sexing plakats o.o


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## Gloria

are plakats harder to sex are they?


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

He's talking about short tail/round tail betta.
Still the same method.
When you get the hang of it.
It get easy.
Look at this way u have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
I'm about 80% correct when I pick fish under two month.
Jar a few of them when they hit about two month.
To see which one become male or female.
Jock down some memories/ note when you first cup them up...


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## Gloria

Ok, cool Thans Curlyfatbottom...
I was thinking I will jar some when they turn 2months as there are about 10 that are about double the rest.. But ill see how it goes 
Im going to make another post in a minute with some pictures from wc today


----------



## Gloria




----------



## bettalover2033

I think the addition of the terra cotta pot is great because they all seem to love it! And from what I can see, their color is coming along nicely!


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## tpocicat

Gloria, I love your fry. They are comming along wonderfully. Do you plan to continue this line to get better CT?


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## Gloria

BL2033 - Yeah I think it was a good idea to have added in some stuff, the next spawn I do I am defiently going to have alot of live plants and what not, they would in the wild, so why not here?
tpocicat - I would REALLY like to continue this line, and since they are combatils i'd like to try and get them to ct maybe. Not too sure exactly on what I want to do yet, but ill figure it out.. I just dont know if ill be able to use any of the fry due to the SBD issue I had. It makes me nervous that they all have it and that some show it and some dont


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> BL2033 - Yeah I think it was a good idea to have added in some stuff, the next spawn I do I am defiently going to have alot of live plants and what not, they would in the wild, so why not here?


I agree completely! I never breed without at least a few live plants.


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## tpocicat

I believe that SBD only shows up in the ones that have it.


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## Fasht

your doing fine gloria! we all learn from our experience. They're looking good so far too! Love the colors
I'm hoping I can breed soon, trying to get my a dragon HM to breed


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## Punki

Sorry im so late! When treating miss piggy i gave her 2 mosquito larvae two times a day so total of 4 mosquito larvae a day. Not much really, the rest were eating 6-7 each twice a day. Anything but mosquito larvae would make her bloat worse. Pellets/flakes are way to quick to bloat any of them >.<


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## bettalover2033

Punki, I agree with you because, pellets and flakes are eaten so fast and they dont get a chance to get soft so when they are pretty hard, the bettas swallow them and they expand in their stomach and LATER digest through.


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## Gloria

Thanks everyone..
The fry are going ok. In the SBD tank I have lost one fry everyday for the last 5 days.. Some look alot better, others just aren't improving.. I think by monday I have have to just cull the ones still with SBD?!
They are definetly loving their new plants and ornaments I added. I feel bad now that I didnt have any in there before now :$
They are getting big too. Might have to start jarring soon. There are about 5/6 that are over 2cm long which is about twice the size of the others.. Yeah most of my fry are very small for their age..


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## tpocicat

Some fry just take longer to develop. I've read that sometimes the latebloomers become the best. Keep going, you're doing great.


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## Gloria

thanks tpocicat..

Woke up to find 3 dead this morning.. It's ok, nature taking it's coarse as they were some of the SBD fry..
The others are looking well, loving their food and new things in their tank.. Pictures updates sometime over the weekend


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## tpocicat

YAY!!! More pics!


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## Curlyfatbottom

fry that die young are not ment to be.
even with special care to make them survive.
they tend develop other problem later on.
any new pix update


----------



## Gloria




----------



## BeautifulBetta

Awww  Cuties! Lookin' good!


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## bettalover2033

Wow those are some great pictures! I love how their color and fins are coming in!


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## Gloria

Yeah, they are starting to grow more too.. I noticed they are also starting their aggression now too... It's rather cute that at just under 2 moths they know theyre supposed to be aggressive lol..
Thanks guys..
I love their colour too, im just a little sad cause they all have the same colour, some have it bold and others have some here and their but it's still the burgendy/red colour.. But they are still very young and it may change?!
I love their fins too, from what I can tell most have the combtail, as expected, but I think there are a couple with more of a CT 
im trying to guess who will be male and female, but its hard, almost all look the same unless you cup them and look closely lol


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## bettalover2033

Okay I know I have asked this before, but what cross or tail type are they?

Usually CT's are all Combtails when they are that small and up to 2-3 months at times. It's only when they are more mature when they have their widespread rays. Also are they marbles? Or just one color?


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## Gloria

Ohhh.. That's really interesting to know... Their mum is a CT and their dad is a VT..
No their not marbles.. Mum is a cambodian and Dad is a dragon.. Mum is a nice red and dad is the burgendy colour... Dad also has shimmers of blue and green on his scales and his fins... I can see the fry getting the shimmer when I place a torch over them too but dads you can see all the time


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## Gloria

So I lost 2 fry today.. 
I don't have too many left. I hope I don't lose too many more :$


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## Fasht

awe, sorry to hear that gloria, they look awesome though, what's the reason for their death? is it SBD?


----------



## indjo

Sorry about the losses. Perhaps, it's for the better because problematic fry will have some sort of problems later on - more vulnerable. How many do you have left?

From the colors of the parents, you should end up with canbodian (both with a shine/metalic and without) and red dragon which should begin to show when they're about 1.5-2cm long (BO)

Since the female is CT, their fins should mostly have extended rays. Not sure about the percentage (how extended - crown or comb) though. To create more CT, take the ones with the most extended ray and with the widest spread. Or you could breed back to mom.

I could be wrong .... lately I often miss predict my own spawns. lol


----------



## Gloria

thanks guys.. I think that the deaths are mainly due to the swim bladder disease.. It is normal for dead fry to be ghost white?
I think it for the better as well, I would rather it be from nature than me having to cull :$
I am not too sure how many there are. I think there are about 40 or so.. I have 9 currently jarred up, 15 in the sick fry tank and then about 20 or so in the main fry tank.. So yeah.. I have lost at least one fry a day but it is ok..
Well they are about 2cm from head to tail..
 thanks


----------



## purplemuffin

Usually when fish die they start to lose color, I imagine with small fish they would lose color/decompose faster than a larger fish.  Sad.

Good luck with the rest!


----------



## Gloria

Thanks.. I just noticed that all of the dead fry have had VERY little to no colour at all, they have appeared completely white/ transparent.. they would only possibly be dead for about 10 hours?! I just thought it was odd..
anyways I have done my water changes early today due to some family issues.. I lost 1 fry and there are about 5 that I think I will lose very soon.. So i think in the end i'll have about 30-35 fry all up.. On the flip side, most of the SBD fry that are remaining loook really great, I hope I dont lose too many more


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## bettalover2033

Have you seen a pattern in how the fish have died or what they maybe had on them? Also you should check for velvet, by shining a very bright flashlight on them and looking to see a very rusty/gold color.


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## Gloria

I am always checking for velvet and as far as I can tell, they definetly do not have it..
I cannot see anything to be causing it. They are mainly the smaller fry so it's possible their system isn't handling the SBD as well as the others?! I am thinking maybe the bigger fry got to the food faster too :$


----------



## bettalover2033

That could really be the major problem too. So during feedings, keep an eye on them to be sure.


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## tpocicat

In the long run, it's better to let the healthy fry live, and let nature take it's course with the others. I understand that is very hard to do when it's your fry


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## bettalover2033

Exactly, especially when they are part of your responsibility. I know from experience that it's hard to just see them go.


----------



## Gloria

Thanks guys.. Im not sure what is causing it. I watch them when they eay and if some of the fatties get to the food before the others I drop in a little extra above the other guys heads and make sure they get something..
There was one dead fry last night when I went to bed.. I got home from work late today and now have 3 dead ..  I noticed they are displaying alot of aggression so I am going to jar them up and go from there... By the way this is only the tank with the SBD fry.. They are all 8 weeks old today..


----------



## Gloria

View attachment 43402


View attachment 43403


View attachment 43404


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## bettalover2033

Oh man, the first picture looks like a bent spine. Or is that SBD?


----------



## Gloria

It's neither... I just took the picture as he/she was turning.. 
The first few pictures didnt work ill re-upload them


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## bettalover2033

Oh. That was a great relief. I'm glad there is some positive to the deaths.


----------



## Gloria

The above photos are of my favourite little fry.. 
The previous post of photos is of my second favourite, but he/she doesn't stay still which makes it hard for me to get a good photos and makes it look like he/she is a little special.. 

I have 40 fry left.. I think I lost so many because of aggression.. The ones I found dead yesterday had barely any fins left. I also spotted last night in the normal tank the bigger fry chasing after the small fry so they all got jarred up.. There are a few with some fin damage.. Hopefully theyll be ok..
There is no need for a heater atm as it is so hot, the thermometre reads 30'c in the tank  Its SO hot!!
Dad seems to be liking the extra heat though. He has build a new bubblenest, its been raining too and he seem to like that. Mum has also tried giving a bubblenest a go too lol.. shes so cute... ill try and get some more pictures later today


----------



## bettalover2033

Did you ever separate the largest fry from the smallest fry? That was probably the biggest mistake because that is one of the most important parts of raising fry.

I love the little fry up there! It looks like he has 10 rays on him. At least that's what i can see from the picture.


----------



## mernincrazy8525

how old are these guys? and are you gonna be sellin them? i would love a pair!!


----------



## Gloria

@ BL2033 - Yeah I seperated the largest fry at a few weeks ago. I posted somewhere on here when I did it.. I only had 9 that were larger than the rest so I jarred them.. All the rest were about the same size, but now there seems to be another 10+ that are larger.. I have jarred all of them up now too. So I have about 29 jarred up and there are another 3 being jarred in a minute.. Some seem to grow ALOT faster than others, it's odd..
Is 10 rays good?! I haven't really learnt too much about the fins yet..
@ mernincrazy8525 - These little fry are 8 weeks and 1 day old TODAY!!  I sure will be selling them, as long as their sell quality, otherwise I might just give them away?!


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## bettalover2033

Yes 10 rays on a betta is very good! It means that they will have a very wide spread caudal. On a CT is even better because they will be big like this male in this picture:

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/28265/2887232600103750357S600x600Q85.jpg

That one has 12 rays. You can simply count them by their lighter colored looking...well rays. They spread out across the caudal if you know what I mean.


----------



## Gloria

Oh ok... Yeah I think I know what you mean.. That's cool as..  Thanx BL2033


----------



## Gloria

Am just about doing the water changes for today.. There aren't too many fry left that can be in together... There are only about 6 that are alot smaller than the rest and probably a little too small to be jarred.. I was definetly not expecting to have to jar ALL of my fry.. But these little buggers seem to be ALOT more aggressive.. Which is weird since both mum and dad aren't THAT aggressive..
My next post which will be in about half and hour will be photos of ALL of the remaining fry.. It may be broken up into 2 posts as there are ALOT of photos..


----------



## Gloria

*Fry 8 Weeks& 1Day.. Normal Fry*

Ok people.. I hope you are ready for some MAJOR picture spam 
I have gone and taken a photo of *EVERY* *fry*! There will be a few photos for this.. 2 of the 'normal' fry and 1 of the SBD fry
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## Gloria

*Fry 8 Weeks& 1Day.. Normal Fry.. *Continued**

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## Gloria

*SBD Fry 8Weeks& 1Day*

These are all of the fry that are currently showing signs of SBD, some are bad and others are just slight, but I still have them all in 2tsp/g epsom salt conditioned water, just to be safe..
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## Gloria

Sorry some of the quality went downhill, as the sun went down my phone was struggling to focus on the fry.. Enjoy


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## xbecky685x

So so cute 

xx


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## indjo

Your first 2 babies (page 42) look like female while your favorites look like males. The ones in page 43 look mostly males. I could be wrong because they're different sizes (I think)

Here's a picture of ray branching









This is a picture of an ideal HM ray branching. Not all have 8 end rays, some have 4 but wider webbing thus still open 180*. 

I'm not sure how ray branching effects CT - never paid attention to them. But I think each end ray would become extended. So I think CT have less ray branchings compared to HM.


----------



## tpocicat

Your fry have such marvelous color. Even the SBD fry look good. (At least to me).


----------



## checkerzelda

Cute! And ventral finssss! *grabby hands* If only my fry had them, hahah..anyway, nice to see they're all doing well! Looking more and more like mommy. They're bigger than my fry now, even though they're the same age. I knew I should have stuck to bbs from the start.. xD;


----------



## Gloria

Thanks everyone..
Thanks Indjo for the ray description thingy  I will take a better look at it when im not so busy..
I have been flat out this week..

I have a problem.. I have to go away soon and don't know what to do with my fry.. They will be 10.5 weeks old, I will be gone for 5 days :$ What can I do?


----------



## bettalover2033

Well, In the first set of pictures, #2 seems to have a bit of a bigger caudal than the rest. #5 has a very pretty deep red, and #11 is just beautiful with it's caudal being so "flary." Also I think that they are all so beautiful! Nice fish and good luck with them!


----------



## Gloria

Aww thanks BL2033... Now that they are all jarred up they seem to be growing even bigger everyday.. They are SO cute.. I am struggling to decide which 2 I want to keep for myself :$ And I have to pick out one for my brother and one for my sister...


----------



## bettalover2033

I would suggest two pairs out of the spawn because if one pair doesn't want to spawn, then you have a back up. Or you could even switch them up and see which works best for you.

And then of course a little fish for you brother. (Just watch him with the fish if he is under the age of around 10-11)!


----------



## beat2020

Very nice. Keep an eye on these guys... They're showing nice potential. Might be you hold backs if you keep breeding this line....












I really like this female (?)...Very nice long body and she's showing nice color already.


----------



## Fasht

omg gloria they look soo cute and perky!! <3 I'll be breeding mine soon! I can't wait!


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## bettalover2033

How old are they? If that is in fact a female YAY! It might be a male though because males usually get their color and or fins before the females. (not always, but usually)


----------



## Gloria

Thanks eveyone... I am really struggling to decide which I like.. And as Indjo pointed out, I think they may all be males, they all look almost exactly the same to me.. Theyre still fairly small but i guess nearly 2.5cm long head to tail..
I was planning to keep one male and one female, but I will have to wait and see. Dragon likes any and all girls and Tiny is REALLY fussy, but now she has spawned once she may not be so fussy lol..
BL2033 - They are 8 weeks and 3 days old today (Thursday Dec. 15)..


----------



## bettalover2033

They are growing before our eyes! It's incredible how their color is coming in so full!

Good to know that they are doing fairly okay and guess what...Now you can start to determine the sexes of them. Hopefully you will get what you want!


----------



## Gloria

thanx BL2033... They definetly are getting big.. There are about 3/4 that are TINY, just like their mum, but i think it is due to the others being so big and stunted their growth..
I REALLY dont think I can sex them, they all look the same to me, ive tried the mouth thing some have egg spot and some dont.. and half the time they wont even stay still for me!!
So for the few days that I am away what should I do?


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

When I usually take trip.
I leave a lot of daphnia inside of the tank.


----------



## vilmarisv

For leaving your fry...
You would basically take the same precautions as if you were leaving an adult. 
Clean the water before your leave but feed them. I left much younger fry for a week and they were ok. 
They will look all skinny and sad when you come back and their growth will hault for a bit but they should be ok. 
If you're using a heater for them, don't set it at 80 degrees... I would bring the temp down to 78 to slow down their metabolism wuthout harming them.


----------



## Gloria

thank you curly and vil..
I am going to be gone for 4 days then ill be back for 1 week and gone again for another 5/6 days 
I don't want to leave me babies but I cannot take them with me..
They are all individually jarred up as they were killing one another.. I may upgrade them from 1.5L to 2/3L jars?! Will them being in more water help at all?


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> thanx BL2033... They definetly are getting big.. There are about 3/4 that are TINY, just like their mum, but i think it is due to the others being so big and stunted their growth..
> I REALLY dont think I can sex them, they all look the same to me, ive tried the mouth thing some have egg spot and some dont.. and half the time they wont even stay still for me!!
> So for the few days that I am away what should I do?


I dont think it's possible to determine the sexes yet either. But in a few more weeks or so, you should be able to. Exactly what Vilmarisv, Curly said lol. Curly has a good point Daphnia is amazing when going away.

How long is the trip?


----------



## Gloria

I am going to see family who live about 12hours away.. I will be gone for 4 days.. Im then back for a week and leave again for another 4 days..

I cannot get any live foods here  the cultures die by the time they are delivered.. They couldnt survive the 4 days without food when theyre still so young, could they?


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## bettalover2033

As 4 days doesn't seem so bad to us, it's really hard on the fry. The fry are so used to a constant feeding time. I personally have never left fry because I don't know the outcome of it.

I would definitely ask OFL (Oldfishlady) she is great with these sort of things.


----------



## tpocicat

If you're lucky, you might be able to find daphnia in a pond or pool nearby. They're the tiny "bugs" swimming around in the water. They can be scooped out with a small net. NOT DRAGONFLY NYMPHS!


----------



## Gloria

Thanks BL2033, I might pm OFL now and see if she can help me 

thanks tpo... Im not too sure how id go finding that here... But ill look into it..


----------



## bettalover2033

Let us know if/when you get the answer!


----------



## Gloria

Hey everyone.. Sorry I haven't been on for a little while..
I asked OFL she said the fry should be ok for a few days as long as they are healthy..

The fry are going ok. I have lost a few.. The SBD fry are slowly decreasing, due to death, but some are looking pretty ok.. I am still having some get SBD, maybe im feeding too much..

I noticed today that there are 2 fry that are jarred next to each other and constantly flaring and wiggling at one another. Should I put something between them so they get a break? Or is this ok?


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

You should put something between.
So they can rest.
Little fish get lonely.
Let them see each other for a few minute each day.


----------



## Gloria

Thank you Curly


----------



## bettalover2033

Yeah I would agree with Curly. It sounds like everything is normal and your doing great so far. How many do you have and how old are they?

Can you get a picture of the two flaring or are you still unable to take pictures/videos?


----------



## Greatbettas

nice nice message me when you ahve any fry:]


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## Gloria

Hey everyone.. Sorry I haven't been on for a long time.. Just have found the site to be a little.. boring, guess..
The Fry are now 10WEEKS and 2DAYS old..
I will be updating with photos on Monday when they turn 11Weeks..
I did try to get a photo of the 2 that were flaring but they decided to be camera shy.. Maybe I will be lucky enough to get some flare shots on Monday.. Til then..


----------



## Greatbettas

Ok


----------



## tpocicat

I was beginning to worry...I'm glad to hear from you Gloria.


----------



## Gloria

Update on fry tomorrow.. Get ready for alot-a photos


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## BeautifulBetta

woohoo!!


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## bettalover2033

YAY for tomorrow! I can't wait to see the pictures. Happy New Year to you and the fry!

wow 10 weeks! Great.


----------



## checkerzelda

Looking forward to see how your gorgeous dragon babies are doing! <3


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## Gloria

*Fry 11 Weeks Old*

Well. Today is Monday January 2nd 2012.. which means... my Fry are *11* Weeks Old **
There are a total of *37* left.. They are mainly the same size now, but I think they are a little small for their age :$ Im pretty sure that at 11 weeks they should be about 4.8-5cm but the biggest are 2.5cm.. Is this a bad thing?
I still have 8 that have signs of SBD so I didn't annoy them for photos, but maybe next week I will..
I have the fry labelled by number.. There are a few though that I have lost their number tag, which sucks, but is all good  I'll fix that up later
They are being fed a mixture of shrimp (mysis & brine), bloodworms and pellets.. I am only giving them a very small amount to try and minimise the risk of more fry getting SBD.. I am a little worried I am feeding them too little though.. I alternate between 1 bloodworm, 1 shrimp and 2 pellets a day, depending on what day it is.. eg one day they may get 1/2 a bloodoworm for breakfast and 2 pellets for dinner..


----------



## indjo

Perhaps they need more food to grow. But being safe is better than being sorry. They might be smaller than average, but it's nothing to worry about .... unless you want to cross F1 to mommy.

I currently have a 4month old who is only 2cm (total) and most are 3cm. As long as they're healthy, I wouldn't worry. Mine are in a diet too because the females are too fat for the males.


----------



## Gloria

Why is it only a problem if I cross F1 to the mother?

How much do you feed your little 2cm fry?


----------



## bettalover2033

I am glad they are doing fine. I would also suggest giving them just a bit more food. Though I am all for being very cautious and if your "gut" is telling you don't do it, I would listen.

Average size is "overrated." It doesn't matter how small they are if they are healthy. It isn't a bad thing that they are small. It's like a "dwarf" horse. As long as they are healthy they can still live long happy lives and are still horses.


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> Why is it only a problem if I cross F1 to the mother


I think that what Indjo was implying is that the size comparison to the mother would be a problem since the mother is quite larger than the fry.

(If you plan/planned to breed soon.)


----------



## Gloria

Thanks BL2033.. When I got Tiny she was VERY VERY small so I guess they are partly taking after her.. I would feed them more but I am afraid it will just bloat them and cause SBD... They're so fragile still, i think :$

Photos wont be too much longer, just uploading them all


----------



## Gloria

oh right.. thanks BL2033, that makes sense


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## bettalover2033

Who knows? The fry might just be taking after the female lol.

I would understand that as well! I would go with a feeling instead of trying to make them bigger as well. Healthy is happy. Bigger isn't always better in this case of both bloat and overall size.

Also you are very much welcome!


----------



## indjo

Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks bettalover for clarifying.

I feed most of mine all they would eat. For some reason I seldom have SBD problems. But if I do, I only need to reduce feeding for a day or 2 and they get better - then back to max feeding.

Mine are small because they got sick when they were 2 months. For some reason most that get sick won't grow normally... don't know why. But they're very FAT/THICK


----------



## bettalover2033

@indjo: Very Welcome!


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## Gloria

Sorry but I have been sitting at my computer for the last 6 hours trying to upload pictures and its not working, im a little mad from wasting my afternoon as it is now 10:30pm so I am going to retry tomorrow.. or in a few hours maybe.. sorry

ALSO... I am looking into buying a proper Brine Shrimp Sieve.. Can someone please tell me where they get theirs if they get them online?! I am looking in Ebay for one but I am noticing that there are different sizes, what size should I get?


----------



## Gloria

*Pictures Fry.. 11Weeks and 1 Day today*

Ok So lets try this again..
Im going to do 2 posts of photos instead..

Unknown Number:








Another Unknown Number:








#12:








#3:








#28:








#11:








#16:







#16Again:







#16Again:








#2:







#2Again:








#30:








#35:








#19:








#20:


----------



## BeautifulBetta

Awww!! <3 They're so sweet! They all look like they're blushing


----------



## Gloria

*Fry pictures continued*

#21:








#33:








Unkown Number:








#29:








#14:








#1:








#17:








#34:








#23:








#4:








#18:








#25:








#5:








#22:








Unkown Number:








#7:


----------



## Gloria

thanks BeautifulBetta..
Yeah they have very rosey like cheeks lol.. I am struggling to decide on the 2 I am going to keep..


----------



## teasell

_Wow, they are really getting to look like Bettas. Love the coloring. So pretty:nicefish:_


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## Gloria

Awww.. Thank you Teasell


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## tpocicat

They are coloring up beautifully! You're doing great.


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## bettalover2033

Wow you have and are doing a great job! This is your first breeding project right? I think I've asked this before, will you state it again if so.

I think you should choose from numbers 23 (I believe she is a female?) strongly I suggest 14 and 18 isn't very far away from beautiful!

Those fry are actually the "strong" looking fry. They look like they have developed wonderfully and nice color on the 14 and 18's body.

Good luck and keep it up!


----------



## Gloria

Thank you Tpo and BL2033...
lol, yeah this is my first spawning project..
Thank you BL2033 I will keep an eye on them.. I have already had one little fry given to a friend as she was passing through and wanted one.. My little brother and little sister will be here in a few days and they are taking one each home too, im not too sure which ill let them choose from but I do have a handful that I am in love with and am choosing from but I will makes sure i put 23, 14 and 18 aside too  my list is (16, 1, 2, 11, 17, 23, 14, 18, 3) < In order of most want to just want a little 
I am a little worried, the fry seem to get sbd SO easy.. They were all fine yesterday and now today half of them are showing signs of sbd. All i fed yesterday was 1/2-1 brine shrimp each breakfast and dinner (depending on fry size)..


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> Thank you Tpo and BL2033...
> lol, yeah this is my first spawning project..
> Thank you BL2033 I will keep an eye on them.. I have already had one little fry given to a friend as she was passing through and wanted one.. My little brother and little sister will be here in a few days and they are taking one each home too, im not too sure which ill let them choose from but I do have a handful that I am in love with and am choosing from but I will makes sure i put 23, 14 and 18 aside too  my list is (16, 1, 2, 11, 17, 23, 14, 18, 3) < In order of most want to just want a little
> I am a little worried, the fry seem to get sbd SO easy.. They were all fine yesterday and now today half of them are showing signs of sbd. All i fed yesterday was 1/2-1 brine shrimp each breakfast and dinner (depending on fry size)..


I thought it was your first time. You are doing great for a first timer lol. Nice amount as well. I honestly don't know what to advise you on the SBD thing.

Maybe ask OFL if there is a kind of food that will maybe reduce the chance of them not being so horribly prone to getting SBD everytime you feed them.

Try the pea method. It works very well. I have done it many times.


----------



## Gloria

thanks BL2033... I started with 103 fry and predicted I would end up with about 30 left and still have 37, so I think that is ok, I do however think I will lose the ones that have sbd, so ill maybe in the end ill have 29ish.. I am already trying to plan out my next breeding.. I am also giving a friend some advice on breeding since she is wanting to breed her Betta..

I will pm OFL and see if she can help


----------



## bettalover2033

Well I am all for another breeding experience with you! I think this one has been really fun and interesting. If you do decide to do another one make sure you post the link to it. I would like to follow that one as well!


----------



## Gloria

aww.. Thanks BL2033.. I am going to use one of these fry, if they are good enough  But I dont think itll be until they are about 4/5 months old since they are so small still..
I really was hoping i'd get a few girls in this spawn  oh well..


----------



## bettalover2033

Well dont sell yourself too short now. There is still a possibility. Also i would suggest 5-6 months old, but i have bred with fry at 4-5 months old so you should try it as well.


----------



## Gloria

Well im not really in too much of a rush to do my next breeding but i have to either do it so that all the fry are sold by septmeber or I have to do it after septmeber, but after september doesnt work really either as ill most likely be going away for a few weeks to see family.. but the fry will be 5 months in march, so ill probably breed in march or april.. but i have to double check with my boyfriend that its ok to do it again  should be ok..

I heard that the temperature of the tank while the parents breed and while the eggs are developing before the fry hatch impact the sex of the fry, have you heard anything about this? I am thinking of testing it out


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

so have you figure out which one is a male or female yet????
yeah ive heard something like that.
but ive never really look into it.
never recode the male to female ratio.


----------



## Gloria

as far as I can tell curly, they are all male.. There are only 3 that I can see with ovipositers, but they are JUST visible, so im not 100% sure just yet. They are onlly between 2cm-2.5 cm, so they are still on the small side 

I think that may be what I look into also while I breed.. Im sure someone else has as well but im interested to test the water temp affect on the male to female ratio


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

wow you got some good eye.
fish less the an inches long.
i can't see the egg spot or egg sack.
the only one that i can tell are
first last unknow,1, 11,14,16,18 and 34 are male
my guess on female are 2,19,20,23 and 29 are female
nice looking fish.


----------



## Gloria

thank you curly. I think they are pretty cute, I am REALLY struggling to decide which 2 to keep. But I only want to keep the best so I can breed them back to mum or dad..

Oh wow you can guess by pictures  I have tried to check it out very well on whos male or female but there is either no egg spot/ i just cant find one and the fact that they all look the same lol


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

just wait till they get a little older and bigger to choose.
no need to rush.
even if you give the best male or female to your sibling.
you can always take them back to breed.

since you jar them.
keep recode on them.
pix work better.(nice clean side shot)
dragon is a vt dragon right


----------



## Gloria

yeah, I am going to wait another month or 2 I think before I choose and then sell the rest.. I am a little unlucky if I give the best to my siblings as they live about 10 hours away..

Yeah on their jars I have a little sicker with the number they are.. and I am trying to photo them at every milestone, so each week/ 2 

Yeah Dragon is a VT Dragon. why do you ask curly?


----------



## bettalover2033

Well i have heard of the temp=certain gender type of thing but as curly said i have never looked into it very well. Another question to ask OFL lol. Ill see if i can find a few or maybe even one article or research that topic for you tomorrow if you dont find out tonight.


----------



## Gloria

oh thank BL2033..
Yeah I will PM OFL and ask her my questions


----------



## Gloria

I have been looking to get a sponge filter for the next time I breed instead of using my homemade one as im a little scared it didnt work that well..
does this look ok to use?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NE...512543?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item2eb1fb009f


----------



## Gloria

or is this an ok sponge filter to use?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Breeder-...501062?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item2eb748dc06


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

40 hours of driving just to breed a fish.
will be very unlucky.

cause your fry shows it.
it make the sexing of the fry a little harder.
vt female have pointy anal fin.


----------



## Gloria

Oh  so i made things a little harder on myself then  OH well.. it wont be long and we will be able to tell.. maybe. I may go through them tomorrow during their wc and make a note in my breeding notebook which has a ovipositor.!?


----------



## bettalover2033

Well if i were to get a sponge filter it would be the first one. The second looks like it is supposed to be very nice but it looks risky. The first one is the one that i actually used a while back.


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

you can say that.
will take good note.
fin
body form/shape
thickness form top view
so you can learn your own ways to sex them.
egg spot won't really help.
almost all young fish have it.


----------



## Gloria

thank you BL2033, I may look into getting one like that then, I like the whole making my own things and what not but I get worried its not doing as good of a job as it needs to  Did you find that that sponge filter worked ok?

Thanks Curly.. to be completely honest I did get a little lazy with noting their changes so I have stuffed it up for myself, but I will stop being lazy and jot down anything I can note between each day


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

taking note each day is a lot of work.
do it from week to week.
since you have them jar up and number.
this is a hobby not a job.


----------



## Gloria

thanks Curly.. I have OCD and get a little too into things sometimes 

BTW I PMd OFL to shed some light on my frys SBD trouble and the temperature influence on the male to female ratio


----------



## Gloria

I was wondering if these little pellets would be ok to feed to small fry?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hagen-Nutra...783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588dd9afa7

Also would these be ok to use?:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TETRA-FR...UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item519ca5f84c#shId


----------



## Bambi

te tetra seems fine for older fsh but might be to large for young bettas.

never tried the hagen food. it looks small enough for a transitional food from live to dry though?


----------



## Gloria

Yeah I was thinking that they both look ok.. The Hagon pellets, say they are for baby tropical fish and they look really small..
The tetra freeze dried food I thought looks good, its the only way I can get daphnia, which i heard is really good.. I could always chop them up nice and tiny to get them used to it before they are big enough to use ?!


----------



## Oldfishlady

As far as the fry having buoyancy issue with food-if it resolves as they digest-then its just pressure on the duct-if it doesn't resolve with digestion then it could be deformed swim bladder or it can even be related to the labyrinth organ. You may want to keep 1tsp/gal of Epsom salt in the tank all the time and keep the heat and humidity high above the water.

Sex ratio-I haven't read anything about water temp or pH...but I have read theories on sex ratio in regards to age of male to female....I will have to look for the paper...but I want to say...older female with younger male produce more males...or the other way around....

If you do find any scientific research be sure and post a link....I will look today and see if I can find anything in my notes....


----------



## tpocicat

Gloria, still stalking your thread... I absolutely love the cambodian looking fry... too bad you live too far away to ship me a couple.


----------



## bettalover2033

Oldfishlady said:


> As far as the fry having buoyancy issue with food-if it resolves as they digest-then its just pressure on the duct-if it doesn't resolve with digestion then it could be deformed swim bladder or it can even be related to the labyrinth organ. You may want to keep 1tsp/gal of Epsom salt in the tank all the time and keep the heat and humidity high above the water.
> 
> Sex ratio-I haven't read anything about water temp or pH...but I have read theories on sex ratio in regards to age of male to female....I will have to look for the paper...but I want to say...older female with younger male produce more males...or the other way around....
> 
> If you do find any scientific research be sure and post a link....I will look today and see if I can find anything in my notes....


I would love to test this theory out! I love (safe) experimental breeding. Though it can be a bit dangerous at times if some breeders aren't careful and are stuck with a bunch of unwanted fry.


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> thank you BL2033, I may look into getting one like that then, I like the whole making my own things and what not but I get worried its not doing as good of a job as it needs to  Did you find that that sponge filter worked ok?
> 
> Thanks Curly.. to be completely honest I did get a little lazy with noting their changes so I have stuffed it up for myself, but I will stop being lazy and jot down anything I can note between each day


Yes. That spongefilter especially worked for me. though to be sure It REALLY didnt suck up fry or even make then stick to it...I would get a mesh kind of material or even stocking material and put it on the filter just once. Though I am REALLY protective and this was when they were at their weeks stage no where near a month old.

Right now I'm sure that isn't needed. I took the material off when they hit a month or so.


----------



## Gloria

OFL - Thank you, I am not sure what the issue is the the SBD, but they will be fine one day then the next cant swim then a few days later ok.. They seem to get bloated very easily, I think I must have made a mistake somewhere :$
I am going to also look online for any theory on the temp affecting male to female ratio and am going to look into experimenting my over the next few spawns 
Tpo - Thank you.. Yeah if I lived closer you could come help me and have as many as you wanted..
BL2033 - If we both look into the theory/ experiment then we can compare what we find  you up for it?!  Thanks for the info on the sponge filter, I do not need it now as ALL my fry are jarredd (agressive little buggers), but I want to try a proper sponge filter for next time and am getting myself sorted, there are a few things I want to change for next time, so I am doing a few extra months of prep 

The fry were all put into epson salt and conditioner water today.. I have some glad-wrap over the top of ever jar with a couple of holes to keep it nice and humid.. I am also thinking I may only feed some frozen bloodoworms, FD black worms and FD tubifex worms.. laying off the BS.. I think I do believe in the whole BS cause SBD or at least contributing to it in some way.


----------



## Gloria

Ok... So for my next spawn I was thinking about getting a 94L plastic tub for the grow out, as last time I only had a 55L tub and believe this may be why they were so aggrssive.. Is this a good idea?
Also I found this long tub that holds 34L.. would that be useful at all for spawning? Or just the 55L and 94L good?


----------



## Oldfishlady

When I spawn in the house-Newly hatch BBS is the only live food I feed my fry the first 3-4 weeks-other than what they find on their own in the NPT's and I don't have a lot of buoyancy issues-I have some-about 1% but I also work with doubletails.

When fry eat too many of the BBS shells that can cause buoyancy problems and if BBS is the only live food and you are either not feeding newly hatched with yolk sac intact or supplement with HUFA the buoyancy can be nutrition related....but since you are feeding other food along with BBS it may be too many shells and then you have labyrinth issue....

Sometimes buoyancy issues can just be genetic-not uncommon to have some that you will end up culling.....


----------



## indjo

Gloria said:


> I heard that the temperature of the tank while the parents breed and while the eggs are developing before the fry hatch impact the sex of the fry, have you heard anything about this? I am thinking of testing it out


Sorry I didn't noticed this earlier ....

I have never read anything scientific about sex ratio. But according other hobbyists : 
1. First 3 spawns of the female gives you more males than females. Her first spawn sometimes gives you 90% male, specially in warmer temps. (I find this to be most reliable. Local breeders cull a 3 time veteran female) 

2. Warm temps should give you more males. The percentage also depends on myth #1. Might be true - I tend to get more males when breeding during hot season. During wet season I sometimes get 90% females when using veteran females....... remind me - I just spawned a first time female out in the rain. Though they don't usually survive if I forget to cover the tub, ask me anyway (red pair). 

3. Younger males gives you more males compared to younger females. (not sure about this one)

You can look into the above myths when you breed.


----------



## indjo

Gloria said:


> Ok... So for my next spawn I was thinking about getting a 94L plastic tub for the grow out, as last time I only had a 55L tub and believe this may be why they were so aggrssive.. Is this a good idea?
> Also I found this long tub that holds 34L.. would that be useful at all for spawning? Or just the 55L and 94L good?


LOL.... You've really been bitten by the betta bug - BADLY... LOL Soon you'll have a house full of tubs....

IMO all are good. Bigger is often better BUT not when they're too young. Some may have problems finding their food. So if you use bigger, you might want to use OFL's method of "calling" them by tapping on the tank/tub just before feeding.

(sorry for the double post)


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## tpocicat

When spawning, I use a 30 L tank for the spawn. If I get a really big spawn, I can move them to a bigger tank when they get bigger. Works for me...


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## Gloria

Thank you everyone... I have found that when I feed the fry 1 mico pellet twice a day they seem to be ok.. They are looking a little better today  Just delicate..

Thank you indjo and OFL for the insight on the sex ratio.. I think I may experiment with it..

Injo -  Yeah got the Betta bug.. I already have my 37 fry and 5 adults and want more  They are just so interesting and they are the best fish, not to mention theyre gorgeous..

OFL - I think I may have given them some shells, I didnt have a sieve for the BBS, so I just a cloth and I do not think that I washed away the shells so that is a possiblilty.. It is ok. lesson learnt for my next try..

MY family is in town atm so I wont be on here as much as normal... Its been a year since Ive seen them.. I have 2 little brothers and a little sister to catch up with (1yo, 6yo, 15yo).. BUT I will make sure to update on Monday when the fry are 12 weeks old, I will then be away for a week..


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## Fasht

nice gloria they've all perked up real good! you better give me tips when my fry gets older!


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## Gloria

Aww thanks Fasht... Our are close in age but I'm pretty sure.. I will have to have a look at your log and see how your little babies are going  I am fairly happy with how they are turning out, I can't wait to be able to know 100% who's male and female.. And once they are bigger than 2.5cm would be good


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> BL2033 - If we both look into the theory/ experiment then we can compare what we find  you up for it?!  Thanks for the info on the sponge filter, I do not need it now as ALL my fry are jarredd (agressive little buggers), but I want to try a proper sponge filter for next time and am getting myself sorted, there are a few things I want to change for next time, so I am doing a few extra months of prep


Of course! I'm always up for a challenge though it will have to wait because i'm currently trying to breed my dragon halfmoons and see what percent of long tails and short tails is going to be the outcome to test the theory given to me by other members who are fairly good with genetics.


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## Fasht

Gloria said:


> Aww thanks Fasht... Our are close in age but I'm pretty sure.. I will have to have a look at your log and see how your little babies are going  I am fairly happy with how they are turning out, I can't wait to be able to know 100% who's male and female.. And once they are bigger than 2.5cm would be good


Our fry arent close in age, mine is only 10 days old lol


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## bettalover2033

I hope everything is okay with these guys!

Get back to us soon


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## Gloria

@ Fasht - I am SO sorry, I didn't realise you lost your last lot of fry and had spawned again..Congratulations though on the new spawn, they are mighty cute, I wish you good luck 
BL2033 - thank you for the well wishes.. everything is ok, just been away on holidays and am having some issues at home..

They FRY are now 13 WEEKS and 3 DAYS  They aren't too great right now as they were left for 9 days without water changes as I was away.. I got home to only 2 dead, which I thought was OK.. They are getting a little bigger, i think.. I am going to take photos of the fry on Monday January 23rd, when they are 14 Weeks old.. I am moving Thursday 26 January, so I may not be on as much as normal..


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## tpocicat

Best of luck with your move...Love fry pics, especially when they start to show color, can't wait until Monday, but I guess I'll have to LOL.


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> @ Fasht - I am SO sorry, I didn't realise you lost your last lot of fry and had spawned again..Congratulations though on the new spawn, they are mighty cute, I wish you good luck
> BL2033 - thank you for the well wishes.. everything is ok, just been away on holidays and am having some issues at home..
> 
> They FRY are now 13 WEEKS and 3 DAYS  They aren't too great right now as they were left for 9 days without water changes as I was away.. I got home to only 2 dead, which I thought was OK.. They are getting a little bigger, i think.. I am going to take photos of the fry on Monday January 23rd, when they are 14 Weeks old.. I am moving Thursday 26 January, so I may not be on as much as normal..


Good Luck to you and your fry. I hope the moving doesn't effect you like it affected me!

I lost all of my bettas because of a different water that they werent used to.

I would test the water and see if it is similar to yours.


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## Fasht

Good luck with the moving, just like what betta lover said hope your bettas and fry wont get affected as much


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## Gloria

Thanks everyone for the well wishes.. I am once again SICK atm, which I am not happy about since I only have 4 days until I move.. I hope the fry and my Bettas will be ok.. The drive is only 9hours but I am a little worried about the town water as sometimes its unsuitable for drinking.. I may have to get rainwater or bottled water :$


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## tpocicat

AWWW, I'm sorry you're sick again. I sure hope you are feeling better when it's time to move. You already know to be careful when changing the water type. I don't know if this will help, but when I got bettas from Thailand, I added only 1 tsp of Aquarium Salt to 5 gallons of water in my betta's tank, it seemed to work for me.


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## Gloria

*14 Weeks Old*

So the fry are now 14 weeks old. I lost 7 between last night and lunch time today.. So, that leaves me with only 18 fry.. Some arent looking too good, so i think I may lose them too.. Anyways, a friend has one fry, and my mum took 3.. 
So here are the remaining 18 fry:

#17








#23








#?








#2








#11








#5















#3








#29








#?








#33








#4








#SBD 4








#34








#26








#21








#30








#8








I lost my favourtie 2, which im sad about but im sure ill find another favourite from the remainnig guys/gals..
I am still unsure of the sex of the fry, they are still only very little.. Only 2.5-3cm  I have started doing WC twice daily, but i think it is a pointless exercise..
From the photos can yous tell me who you think look like they have good potential?!


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## Gloria

I am thinking my choice will be from between #23, #11,and #5..??!!


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## bettalover2033

II would say that 11 and 5 are looking the best.


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## Gloria

Thanks BL2033  I like those little guys and they don't seem to hate water changes as much as the rest


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## bettalover2033

Yea my fiwh hate water changes. As well but some build a a little tolerance for it lol.


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## Bambi

I kinda like the colors coming in on #8 but the fins on #5 and 11 aswell. xD

Sorry you lost some, hopefully the rest do better.


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## Fasht

Sorry to hear bout some of the fry, i like #23 and 11 too though


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## dramaqueen

Cute babies.


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## Creat

Some look like they may have great potential at least to make even better babies  #11 #5 #26 Do you add a little aq salt to your water changes it seemed to help my fry a little.


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## tpocicat

I can't really say which ones I like best. I love them all.


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## dramaqueen

They have such big eyes. lol


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## cjayBetta

omg cute


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## Curlyfatbottom

Water change do help out a lot when there in the same tank.
But when u jar them up.
It's like taking care of a adult fish.
You need some high fatty protien food for your fish.
Them seem like there a little under weight.


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## Karebear13

I like 5


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## Gloria

Thank you everyone for your comments... I am not sure what the go is, but I am left with only *3 *fry.. They turned 16 weeks old today..
One of my fry went to a friend and 3 others went to my mother.. The others all died.. So in my hands I only have 3.. They are still small, one inparticular but they are all gorgeous still.. I havent yet decided which I am going to keep and possibly breed, but I am going to hold onto them all until they are a little bigger and I can tell male from female.. They are still only about 3cm, if that. Once is TINY.. Anyways, hopefully some photos soon.. Sorry I havent been on and updating like normal


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## Gloria

Just wondering if anyone can help me.. Can I put my cherry shrimp (6) in with one male fighter in a 20L fully planted tank??


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## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> Just wondering if anyone can help me.. Can I put my cherry shrimp (6) in with one male fighter in a 20L fully planted tank??


Ooo Ooo I know, I know. Lol sorry...the kid really came out in me that time.:lol:

Anyway, I would say yes. That is fine as long as the male isn't too aggressive. Some bettas do very well with other species, but others can be very aggressive and see hem as a tasty snack. So if it is fully planted, I'm sure you sure can have them together. Though every betta iphas a different personality.

Good luck!


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## Gloria

Thank you BL2033


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## Wolfboy51

Their soooooooo cute


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## bettalover2033

Your very welcome Gloria.

How it and old are the fry?


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## EvilVOG

shrimp + betta are a crapshoot. He may ignore it, or rip it to shreds.


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## Gloria

The babies are now 20weeks and 4 days old.. Unfortunately I lost most of them. There are only 2 left and have both been given homes.. So I suppose those log comes to an end.


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## OregonDreamsBettas

:-( Sorry to hear about your loss


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## tpocicat

I'm so sorry for your loss. When this happens to me, I try to look foreward to the next time.


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## Gloria

Thanks everyone.. I did get 2 little fry that are very happy in their new homes, I think te move and new water may have caused the last lot of deaths.. I did get 2 new females and a new male so I may breed again sometime this year or maybe wait til next.. Thanks again everyone for all te support and advice..


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