# baby betta, couldn't resist...



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

So after my landlord made me get rid of my last two bettas... Ive always had my 1 gallon Jar, which could be hidden easily. Couldnt resist going into petco yesterday and came out with a baby betta....

he's now now in the tank with a cory, an otto, an army of snails, 5 shrimps and many babies... and...3 juvenile endlers. I have no idea how they are thriving so well in there... but he/she is happily exploring.

Any idea what gender? even though it's pecking away at random things I cant see (copepods?) I think I might need to grab it some betta pellets and crush them to make sure he's well fed. Does it need any special care? temperature is 76.

As you can see it's about mama cherry shrimp size right now, theres a mama ghost shrimp hovering over it


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## jaela (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm afraid you're WAY overstocked for a 1 gallon jar. :-? A betta alone can't even live in one cmfortably without very, very frequent water changes (and that still isn't very much room for your betta to swim around), so with all the other fish, the ammonia levels are probably through the roof. This can actually BURN your fish as well as make them very, very sick. Snails in particular produce a LOT of ammonia.
As well, corys and otos are schooling fish that don't do well with only one per species. It's better to have room for 6+.
If your landlord doesn't allow fish tanks, you're really going to have to return these fish to the pet store, or rehome them to someone who has more space for them. I know how nice it is to have fish around, but I'm sure you don't want them to be in bad conditions.
There's a possibility you can talk to your landlord about keeping a fish as an emotional support animal, and have an exception made. But you'll need to make sure you have a much larger home for your fish and that you don't overstock the tank.
In addition, betta fish DEFINITELY need to be fed. They won't survive on just copepods or other tiny organisms in your tank.
Please, please get these fish to a new home as soon as possible.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

Please tell me you don't have all of those in a 1 gallon...


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## True Indigo (Mar 22, 2012)

The fact that your betta fish baby is showing it's stripes usually signifies that it's stressed out. Please follow the first replier's advice.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

baby betta fish are grow up with stripes... and ammonia and nitrites are zero nitrates are about 10...I haven't done a water change in two months... I'm not worried about the jar, water parameters cannot be more perfect, I will move him out of there once he gets bigger, I don't want a giant betta in with my shrimps any way, but for now, he/she's in there.

I'm well aware that a one gallon usually will only sustain one betta fish and needs two wcs a week, 

But if anyone is wondering about why a jar works, it is because there is a cycling system in there that is converting all the ammonia nitrates and nitrites into nutrition for plants. there is sufficient lifestock in there to provide carbon dioxide and in return with a good lighting cycle nothing in the jar is being poisoned and all the fish are very well fed, they have been growing quite well and are very vibrant. The shrimps, which are supposed to be sensitive to even slightly bad water parameters are thriving well.

Im worried about the betta mostly and whether he is eating enough, and when he will start eating my shrimps.

Since I'm not the most experienced with bettas, Im just wondering if he's feeding well. Can anyone with experience judge the size of his stomach for me?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Here's a video of the jar if any one is curious. Betta is in the elodeas in theback somewhere, it seems to prefer the area with more plants.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/aoshiryu/3a27441d.mp4


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

so.... your landlord made you get rid of your fish. yet you went out and severely overstocked a jar with more? 

your jar is WAY overstocked. a one gallon is fine for ONE betta. not one betta, and a bunch of other fish. which are all schooling fish and need more than what you have there.

baby bettas are VERY fragile fish. they need perfect conditions to grow properly. something you can't do in an unheated gallon jar with tons of other fish. it doesn't matter how many plants you cram in there, all your fish are unhappy. Oto catfish are schooling and need 4+, cory catfish are schooling and need 4+, i don't know much about Endlers, but i know they need bigger tanks than a gallon jar.

you can't judge how stocked your tank is, by the size of your fish. a 1.5 seems big for my Todd, and looks like it has plenty of room for other fish, but i know the bioload of the tank can only support Todd alone.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

Even if your water parameters are perfect, Corys and Ottos are schooling fish; they are not happy and will not thrive alone. Having good water also doesn't change the fact you are horribly overstocked. Stunting *will happen*.

I won't comment on feeding as I don't have experience with baby Bettas.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

aokashi said:


> baby betta fish are grow up with stripes... and ammonia and nitrites are zero nitrates are about 10...I haven't done a water change in two months... I'm not worried about the jar, water parameters cannot be more perfect, I will move him out of there once he gets bigger, I don't want a giant betta in with my shrimps any way, but for now, he/she's in there.
> 
> I'm well aware that a one gallon usually will only sustain one betta fish and needs two wcs a week,
> 
> ...


What you haven't taken into consideration is pheromones. All fish produce pheromones.. the young betta release one that stunts the other fry, you are stunting your guy by bathing him in his own poison.
*All *of your fish are releasing pheromones, this is the way they communicate with each other... This is also the biggest reason that we *must *do water changes in *any *tank. Pheromones are invisible, and will increase the stress of all your fish, your oto and cory are probably terrified of the hidden messages being released by the betta, even if it is a baby. _It's like living in your bedroom, knowing there is a poisonous spider in your room. You can survive, but you will always know that the spider is there, and you will live in constant terror of it._ This is the best example I can give.... This is why we need large tanks to house betta with other fish, so the pheromones are diffused into a larger water area, and controlled by water changes.....

As mentioned, your baby should have at least 80F for best growth.


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

Please re-home them


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks for the advice guys  I didn't "cram" fish or plants in on a whim, everything was very strategically set up. Sorry if this offends anyone!

But again ignoring the jar, can someone provide me information on how well it is fed? They are fussy little creatures and I neither want to underfeed or over feed it.

Again, I am not going to keep the baby betta in this gallon jar into his adult hood, it is not suited for the environment I made for all the other fish who are primarily herbivores/omnivores. Sorry for any confusions there, he will be alone once he is about twice the size he is now.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Olympia said:


> What you haven't taken into consideration is pheromones. All fish produce pheromones.. the young betta release one that stunts the other fry, you are stunting your guy by bathing him in his own poison.
> *All *of your fish are releasing pheromones, this is the way they communicate with each other... This is also the biggest reason that we *must *do water changes in *any *tank. Pheromones are invisible, and will increase the stress of all your fish, your oto and cory are probably terrified of the hidden messages being released by the betta, even if it is a baby. _It's like living in your bedroom, knowing there is a poisonous spider in your room. You can survive, but you will always know that the spider is there, and you will live in constant terror of it._ This is the best example I can give.... This is why we need large tanks to house betta with other fish, so the pheromones are diffused into a larger water area, and controlled by water changes.....
> 
> As mentioned, your baby should have at least 80F for best growth.


Interesting, I've never studied fish phermone before  That will be the next part of my research, thankyou!


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm sorry, I try to be nice to everyone on here, but your jar is just terrifying me. Even if they *seem* happy to you, those are *not* proper living conditions for *any *of those fish. Your cory and otto *need* to be with other cories and ottos. That is their *nature.* If it was *one* betta in there, you could swing it, provided you got a heater. As it is, you are horribly overstocked. To be honest, I feel a bit sick to my stomach at this.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

making sure they eat enough, is why i kept Chappy Belle, my own baby betta i got from a breeder, in her own tank. best thing for it, would be Baby brine Shrimp and crushed quality pellets.


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## wystearya (Sep 27, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> so.... your landlord made you get rid of your fish. yet you went out and severely overstocked a jar with more?


Yeah, I have to agree with this. If your landlord does not want you to have fish, and you already had to 'get rid of' some, why did you get more..?

I feel bad for the fish that were gotten rid of. I mean, what happened to them..?

Please don't get any more fish. Or other pets if your landlord will not allow it. I know it stinks when you want a pet but can't have one. I waiting for *years* before I got my dog because I either wasn't allowed or didn't have a good place for one. I was nearly 30 before I finally got my dog, but he was worth the wait. And I can -properly- care for him. Please do these living animals (your fish) a favor and not get anymore. They don't deserve to live in a tiny jar hidden away and at risk of being thrown out by your landlord. :/


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

oh I adopted them out to some very nice people, I made sure they were very nice and will look after my fish. Along with the fish I gave them a handbook for betta care inculding temperature how much to feed and stuff. With the fish were tanks, blood worms, hikari pellets plants etc... dont worry, no toilet fluhing incidents occurred 

And as for the landlord, I'm thinking of moving next year, since I dont like hom anyway.

Annnnd there is nothing in a closet or anything of that sort, I'm still learning how to make this system work, and nothin has died. But if something does get sick or die, I will look into it and improve the system.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Luimeril said:


> making sure they eat enough, is why i kept Chappy Belle, my own baby betta i got from a breeder, in her own tank. best thing for it, would be Baby brine Shrimp and crushed quality pellets.


Just moved it to a half Gal with IAL  Thankyou, do they know when to stop eating? Or is there a certain amount you feed?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

:I half gallon would need more water changes than the gallon. i kept Chappy in a 3 gallon with a hater, live Java moss, and daily water changes.

i fed her till she had a nice, round, orange belly. but, that was because i fed her live baby brine shrimp. just feed it till it has a nice belly on it.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lilyth88 said:


> I'm sorry, I try to be nice to everyone on here, but your jar is just terrifying me. Even if they *seem* happy to you, those are *not* proper living conditions for *any *of those fish. Your cory and otto *need* to be with other cories and ottos. That is their *nature.* If it was *one* betta in there, you could swing it, provided you got a heater. As it is, you are horribly overstocked. To be honest, I feel a bit sick to my stomach at this.


Sorry about that, it ok to be frustrated at me, I understand your feelings.
But it does work and fish do thrive in such conditions. Ive seen an aquarist who keeps tanks in a similar situation and his fish grow up healthier and breed better than most other tanks that followed after the stereotype fish keeping model. I'm not asking you to believe me ofcourse, and I'm not trying to arguing that the fish are "happy", just something I saw with my own eyes and know can work.

Again, sorry for offending you


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Sorry about that, it ok to be frustrated at me, I understand your feelings.
> But it does work and fish do thrive in such conditions. Ive seen an aquarist who keeps tanks in a similar situation and his fish grow up healthier and breed better than most other tanks that followed after the stereotype fish keeping model. I'm not asking you to believe me ofcourse, and I'm not trying to arguing that the fish are "happy", just something I saw with my own eyes and know can work.
> 
> Again, sorry for offending you


My heart just bleeds for any animals that I feel aren't living in the proper conditions. And I don't mean to offend you at all, either.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

The baby betta is not showing stress marks (also there is no such thing, these markings communicate a number of things). That's a completely normal appearance for one month to two month old fry.

However I agree with the others. One gallon isn't enough for even just a betta. And a growing betta needs even more room (they produce a hormone that stunts them in high concentration).


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Luimeril said:


> :I half gallon would need more water changes than the gallon. i kept Chappy in a 3 gallon with a hater, live Java moss, and daily water changes.
> 
> i fed her till she had a nice, round, orange belly. but, that was because i fed her live baby brine shrimp. just feed it till it has a nice belly on it.


Im going to have to do daily water changes in a tank with nothing in it anyway i think, lol I was even going to do a WC every half a day.... do they take frozen well? might take me a while to get BBS, its eating crushed pellets, but I have to wiggle it around on a toothpick. 

I'll figure out a way to get the temperature to a stable 80. I have a larger 2gal tupperware which I think I can use, not sure how reliable one of those betta bowl eaters are though. Thanks for reminding me about the plants, i'll give it some Javafern


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lilyth88 said:


> My heart just bleeds for any animals that I feel aren't living in the proper conditions. And I don't mean to offend you at all, either.


It's ok, Im not offended, I was kind of prepared for the onslaught I would get amongst a proper answer. I needed to see the compatibility of the betta in there anyway. Olympia did presented me with a good point, I will need to reintroduce water changes since I haven't taken phermones into consideration, I wonder how outdoor ponds work? hmm....we used to have a large sheltered ceramic pot outdoors with quite a few different fish in there with a potte lily, they grew to be huuugeeee, never changed the water in that one either.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm not even gonna start...


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

This is a clip of corydoras in the wild

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXDrfXTOAPw

I can guarantee your one corydoras is feeling quite stressed by its lack of companions. Schooling/shoaling fish stick together for security, it is a natural instinct and just because it 'seems' to be doing well doesn't mean it is. 

Otocinclus are the same. They swim together in large numbers and do not do well when kept singly. They are also very active fish and a 1 gallon is horribly cramped for a fish that enjoys constantly moving about.

Also you are going to have to start supplementing your oto's diet soon as that 1 gallon will not have enough natural food to sustain it for very long. If you don't, your oto will eventually starve as they require a constant source of food (such as algae) to graze on. 

Fish that are by nature schooling or shoaling, need to be kept in groups. You are essentially denying one of its most basic instincts, and undoubtedly stressing it greatly in the process. 

There's no way around it, your 1 gallon (probably actually less once you remove your plants and any substrate etc.) is much too small and an unsuitable home for both of these species.


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> This is a clip of corydoras in the wild
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXDrfXTOAPw
> 
> ...


This. 

If you truly love your fish, provide them with proper homes. As it is, who are you really doing this for? Yourself or them?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

off topic, but omg! lookit all the little cory catfish! they're so adorable!

frozen brine shrimp might be okay. i've never used frozen, and hatched my own baby brine shrimp for Chappy.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lilyth88 said:


> This.
> 
> If you truly love your fish, provide them with proper homes. As it is, who are you really doing this for? Yourself or them?


Myself, of course, I mean who really keeps fish for the sake of their fish? we'd throw them all back into where they came from, right? After all mother nature has the best sustainable system for any living creature  Don't we all keep fish as companions for ourselves? how many generations of breeding and abuse do fish have to go through before becoming suitable for home aquariums? And for those "wild caughts" is there really a stress free way to capture and ship fish? If we go by that logic, should any one keep fish at all? Im just saying


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Luimeril said:


> off topic, but omg! lookit all the little cory catfish! they're so adorable!
> 
> frozen brine shrimp might be okay. i've never used frozen, and hatched my own baby brine shrimp for Chappy.


Ok frozen it is then, until the baby brine shimps hatch! I'll probably need to wiggle its food around a bit. thank you !


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

aokashi said:


> Myself, of course, I mean who really keeps fish for the sake of their fish? we'd throw them all back into where they came from, right? After all mother nature has the best sustainable system for any living creature  Don't we all keep fish as companions for ourselves? how many generations of breeding and abuse do fish have to go through before becoming suitable for home aquariums? And for those "wild caughts" is there really a stress free way to capture and ship fish? If we go by that logic, should any one keep fish at all? Im just saying


no offense, but that's a PETA argument. :I domestic bettas like the ones we keep, were created by HUMANS. they cant' survive in teh wild like their wild relatives can, so there's no place to 'throw them back' to. that argument, imo, is selfish. i keep my bettas, for them. many of them would have been in situations far worse than i'd ever provide, shoved in vases, jars, cups, bottles, instead of the 1-3 gallon tanks they live in now, which is the smallest i'd EVER keep a betta in. they are kept alone, which is what bettas want(they're extremely territorial fish), get the best food i can provide, get water changes every few days, have plenty of plants to swim through and sleep in. your jar without the other fish, would be fine for ONE fish, ONE betta, and no more. you saw, in the video, how active those wild cory catfish are. all the fish you crammed in that jar are very active fish, and are unhappy in that tiny little jar. i'd NEVER put any of those fish, save the betta by itself, in anything smaller than a 10 gallon tank. that many fish may be fine for a 20 gallon, or bigger, but not a one gallon jar with limited places for them to swim in.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I have wild-caught bettas. They live in a biotope-style tank of 10 gallons, with a pH of less than 5 and lots and lots of moss and leaf litter to provide appropriate cover. 

It took them a month for me to get them used to me. In their first year they bred continuously every two weeks. Now they have 4 juveniles and 1 adult offspring in with them. They take pellets, live and frozen and are exceptionally tame.

They have also grown bigger than the average size given for their species. 

I would assume the process of going through shipping and capture was stressful, as was the first month or so of living with me. 

However, by providing an ideal environment from the first day, I have fish that are probably happier and healthier than their wild counterparts. There is no dry season, no lack of food, no predation, and no competition for territory or mating rights. 

Mother nature is not very kind to animals. Out in the wild the environment is not adapted for the fish, the fish adapt to their environment. Death is usually not very nice and there's no one sitting there making sure everyone gets the right amount of food and treatment if they get sick or injured. 

This is the difference between 'pet' fish and wild fish. There are very very few species (usually saltwater) that will not thrive just as well, if not better in an appropriate aquarium than they would in the wild. The key is in the word _appropriate_. Except during drought or dry season there's no species of fish that would live permanently in only 4L of water. It is not a sustainable 'real life' model.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Well, I've had most of these fish for a while, and I believe they are inifinitely happier than they were in the pet shop and many have healed up, the corys have grown out their barbels and the ottos have developed a much rounder stomach as oppose to their original emaciated selves.  Thats my definition of giving them a better space to live in. You have your definition and I respect that I also completely agree with what you are saying. I apologize for the fact that my standard doesnt meet most people's out there. But as long as they keep growing healthily and don't get sick, I am quite satisfied.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

As long as my puppy is growing fine in a small crate with enough food/water and cleaning, and is able to stand up and turn around, I don't care if she's all by herself or doesn't have room to excessive her guts out. Dogs don't need socialization, that's just wild wolves that do that!!

>_< harsh side of me.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Lol, I might think about that if I kept fish in just enough water to turn around in. 

by the way, I looked up the phermone information. Growth stunting usually happens amongst same species fish. But I'm going to do some periodical water changes and see how that affects the system.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Please guys, let's not turn this into an arguement and try and help the OP. What's done is done.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry DQ.
About the stunting- he is a betta, and he himself is releasing betta stunting hormone. That's the problem. He's not affecting the other fish with it.


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

I can see this is going to go no where. The OP clearly has their mind set, at the expense of their fish. Any living creature you choose to bring into your home is deserving of proper care. Your standard goes against everything the experts recommend. Do some research on your species and learn about properly stocking tanks. 

Time for me to take my leave in this thread, it is giving me a headache. :shake:


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> no offense, but that's a PETA argument. :I domestic bettas like the ones we keep, were created by HUMANS. they cant' survive in teh wild like their wild relatives can, so there's no place to 'throw them back' to. that argument, imo, is selfish. i keep my bettas, for them. many of them would have been in situations far worse than i'd ever provide, shoved in vases, jars, cups, bottles, instead of the 1-3 gallon tanks they live in now, which is the smallest i'd EVER keep a betta in. they are kept alone, which is what bettas want(they're extremely territorial fish), get the best food i can provide, get water changes every few days, have plenty of plants to swim through and sleep in. your jar without the other fish, would be fine for ONE fish, ONE betta, and no more. you saw, in the video, how active those wild cory catfish are. all the fish you crammed in that jar are very active fish, and are unhappy in that tiny little jar. i'd NEVER put any of those fish, save the betta by itself, in anything smaller than a 10 gallon tank. that many fish may be fine for a 20 gallon, or bigger, but not a one gallon jar with limited places for them to swim in.


+1 And now I am starting because you seem very ignorant, blunt yes, sorry

Most fish today are not even wild caught, humans have also breed the fish so they are more appealing, so if you do throw them in the wild they will not survive because they will make easy prey. Every see a fish that has really long fins like a veil tail or halfmoon in the wild? Of course not, it won't survive in the wild.

Just because you throw some plants in a tank, that doesn't mean you can keep any type of fish in the jar and say they are thriving. Your stocking would be close to the limits of a 10 gallon, and you have 1/10 the space! I feel like you never did read up on any of the fish as most of them require bigger tanks and more of their own species. What makes YOU think it is right to jeep all the fish in that jar?

End rant...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I figured that much at about page 2  it's in his own place right now with a large IAL leaf and java fern. Im going to move it to a 2 Gal tomorrow so it can be heated. Going to also procure some BBS too tomorrow, but I'll try frozen daphnia for now. 

And I was reading ur gardening page olympia, you ever thought about trying cast iron plants for the shady area? I remember them being extremely hardy in my garden when I was small. they grew in the gap between the wall of our house and our neightbours. we never watered them or fertilized them and they are still there today, all nuce and green


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

kfryman said:


> +1 And now I am starting because you seem very ignorant, blunt yes, sorry
> 
> Most fish today are not even wild caught, humans have also breed the fish so they are more appealing, so if you do throw them in the wild they will not survive because they will make easy prey. Every see a fish that has really long fins like a veil tail or halrfmoon in the wild? Of course not, it won't survive in the wild.
> 
> ...


Hahaha thank you  
in fact i've read up on all the fish I have in my tanks. The otos and corys are schooling fish usually kept in groups of 6. Endlers can pretty much tolerate any decent water condition, breed like rabbits and is best kept at a lower male : female ration or the females will be harassed. otos thrive well on algae and a constant supply is being provided. The sand substrate is primarily for the cories to be gentler on their barbels.

But, I understand your point  And thank you for sharing.

may be I will be breeding the next generation of non schooling betta equivilant cat fish


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hmmm the shade garden is currently dominated by hosta, lily of the valley (and poison ivy). I'll look into those.
Besides your temperature being too low... Where are you hiding all these fish from your land lord? And when are you moving out, so you could provide them with better homes?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Anyway, as I've gotten the original answer for my post, I'm goig to take my leave  thank you for everyone help and concern. I've also learnt something new today so it was all very helpful. I think it's time to let this thread sink into forum history


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Hmmm the shade garden is currently dominated by hosta, lily of the valley (and poison ivy). I'll look into those.
> Besides your temperature being too low... Where are you hiding all these fish from your land lord? And when are you moving out, so you could provide them with better homes?


Oh one last post then  I'll be moving out in one year, after I graduate. when I earn some money I'm going to put all my experimentation and the thigs I've learn in its process in a much larger tank. Jar is in my room on the table Land lord can't come into my room as it is locked when Im out and I have the only key. I was silly and kept the betta in the living room, and when he walked in he wasn't very pleased about it. Being where the heating was the living room had a stable temperature at around 80F, whereas the temperature in my room fluctuates greatly. I didn't have the money for two heaters and two new tanks so I adopted them out.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Sorry I was harsh  I wasn't in a great mood at the time... I hope you the best of luck!


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

It's one thing to be ignorant, it's an entirely different thing to be stubborn at the detriment of living animals.


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## jaela (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm glad you're at least _considering_ letting these fish live in proper conditions, and I hope you can do it sooner rather than later. It saddens me that your stance is to wait for your fish to die before you reconsider. :-( Why not give them better care before it comes to that?

I _would_ still strongly recommend you to at least rehome the oto and the cory, if you're still insisting on going with the setup you have. Obviously they're not going to breed if you only have one of each, so your comment about breeding a new species is already pretty ridiculous. These fish are going to be really stressed out until you either rehome them or they die, that's the harsh reality of it.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Kfryman, we all have days like that.


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

I hope for your fishes sake you decide to do the right thing by them, they are live animals, and you are treating them like toys, you are killing them slowly, they will die a long and painful death, no animal deserves that and I feel very sorry for your poor fish.Don't mean to be rude, just truthful.


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