# 3 week old Fry Growing Very Slowly



## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi,

So I've managed to have a successful spawn (out 8-10 attempts) and the fry are now 3 weeks old. There's about 25 fry in a 2-3g plastic container with heater. I opt to use a plastic container to help maintain the heat better and its easier to clean than my larger tanks. Anyway, they all seem to be healthy and darting around but they look quite small compared to pictures/videos of other people's spawns that I've seen on the internet. They look like 2 weeks old... Some are slightly bigger than others and some are even so small they look like they've just been spawned.

I feed them live BBS once or twice a day and clean the bottom every night but they are still growing very slowly. Any ideas or ways I could boost their growth?

Once they've grown to a certain size, I hope to move them in a larger grow out tank.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I feed mine 3 times a day.. a mix of BBS, micro worms, banana worms, walter worms, vinegar eels.

I suggest feeding twice a day at minimum.
What is the % of water that you change when you change it nightly? They do produce a growth stunting hormone that can cause them to not grow normally if not enough water change is being made.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I usually change at least 50-70%. I only fill the container half full each time. Maybe I should add more water? I was worried if I took too much water out and replaced it the fry would die from all the water changes....


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I can only get hold of bbs where I live. I will try to feed once before and once after work from now on and see any growth. And more water tomorrow.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Congrats.........

Along with the limited nutrition-it might also be an issue with 25 fry in 2-3gal of water. Since they are 3 weeks old-I would move them to at least a 10gal tank with a sponge filter, water temp of at least 80F and cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat/humidity for the developing labyrinth organ-It is important that the air above the water be at least the same temp as the water and humid. That first breath of air that is too cool and dry can be a cause of mass die off and/or heath issues.

I would make daily water changes of 50-75% in a 10gal or larger or 50-75% twice a day in the 2-3gal. 
If you have live plants, common snails and a tannin source to add-all the better. The live plants and common snails can help provide some microorganisms for fry food. As the tannin source-either IAL or Oak leaf start to break down can help colonize some microorganisms too-plus the tannins can help toughen scales/fins with long term use, however, if you use a tannin source-be sure and have the replacement water pre-tanned for the water changes.

The more varied the diet the better, however, if the only live food you can get is BBS-I would only feed newly hatched BBS with their yolk sac intact for best nutrition. I would have 2 BBS hatcheries going 24h apart and feed 2-3 times a day. I would also go ahead and start feeding some processed food at this stage-either crushed pellets, flakes, freeze dried and/or frozen to get a more varied diet.

Look forward to some pics....


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks OFL!!!

A few died after I moved them from a small plastic container to a slightly larger one on Sunday (2-3g). I do have a lid on it but I took the cling film away (in the small container I had both). I think the water temp is changing too much. Whenever I open the lid to feed them I think all the heat goes. 

I always get a bit confused with sponge filters... I've seen people use an air pump connecting to the sponge filter and some connecting their sponge filter to the inlet pipe of their external filter... If connected to the air pump how does that filter the water? I hope I make sense lol. 

I found about a dozen baby snails randomly growing inside my 45g community tank... probably from plants I've bought from LFS. I do rinse them before putting them in but somehow they got in. Anyway can I use them in the fry tank? I did have one inside for a few days but I took it out thinking it might pollute the water? I have IAL available too. I do have processed food for fry which I use to feed my baby guppies with but I thought the betta fry were too small to take them. I will try tonight. 

I really hope I can keep as many alive as I can but I think a few more may die by the time I get back from work tonight


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

What is the best temp to keep the fry at? I'm worried anything over 82-84F will be too warm?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Temp wise, I like 84 personally. 82-84 is the recommended temp.. 

How big is the tank you moved them to? If it's still small, then yes a draft can cause a quick water change.. larger tanks (such as 10g) can handle it a bit better. 

Depending upon size of the tank, one or two snails would be okay - but keep in mind they add a lot of ammonia/waste into the tank, so lots of live plants will help along with lots of water changes.. ammonia is a big killer to fry in the first month. But they are good at cleaning left over food, dead fry, etc.. so good to have as long as you do daily water changes.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

When I went to feed my fry before I found about 10 dead fry  Really Sad... I think they started to die after I changed to the larger container... Maybe its cos with the smaller container I had cling film under the lid so effectively I had 2 layers on top. With the new container I just had the lid. Anyway I've put a sheet of cling film under the lid now. I have around a dozen left and really worried they won't make it.. 

I don't really want to move them again at the moment until they're a lot bigger. I might add more water. 

I was hoping at least 20 would survive to adulthood but now it seems i'd be lucky to have more than 5...


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry 

How did you move them?

Moving such young bettas can be dangerous if you're not VERY careful in making sure the temp is the same, the pH, and all the other parameters. They are fragile at 3 weeks.. a draft could of happened, but in larger tanks it shouldn't affect the temp that badly. 

What worked for me when I wanted to breed in a smaller container was use a small (sterilite/rubbermaid) plastic bin that could easily fit into a 10g - made sure there was room in the 10g for floating plants and a heater, sponge filter.. drilled some holes on the side of the container so the water would be equal inside and out.. bred in the small container and then when they were free swimming I just tilted the container very gently into the tank and let them loose.

They did need to be moved though from the small tank.. for now just make sure the temp is around 84, have IAL or dried oak leaves in there along with some live plants - and feed them a few times a day.. hope they bounce back.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I moved them by catching them in a cup and slowly releasing them in the larger container. At the moment I don't want to risk another move. I will leave them until they're a bit more developed... I just have to make frequent water changes. Is it worth sticking a sponge filter in at this stage? I want some water movement but again worried it may stress/disturb the fry.

I think I will try your method next time. Is it easier for the male to look after the fry in a smaller container?

I have 11 left now. Hopefully no more will die. I still think they're quite small for the age... They're about 3 and a weeks old now.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

It may of been that they weren't acclimated to the new temp/chemistry and they went into shock  If they are in a 10g, they can stay there for another few weeks or longer, since there aren't as many.. so don't need to worry about moving them until they are bigger/stronger. The first month of their life they are at their fragilest.

A sponge filter would help.. get one of those valves that let you control the air flow from the pump to the filter.. just turn it on low and it will be fine. I've had mine set on low since they were free swimming with no problem. Yours should be fine as well. 

The father should be able to take care of the fry with no trouble in there.. he won't have too many distractions, and possibly feel a bit more secure that nothing will try to harm them. BUT, he also may feel that the space is a bit too small and may try to cull a bit more. You will have to watch and see how he does. My male that was in the container was a first time daddy.. so I pulled him right after they were born because I was nervous.. but saw he had ended up having about 30 fry in his mouth when I transferred him and he started caring for the fry in his .33g keeper where I placed him to recoup. I did move the fry over though.. but he had built a nest and was watching them. A few ended up staying in there for about 5 days and he was still caring for them.. they eventually moved over too. So, you just don't know how the male will react until you watch them.. now I know this particular male is a great father, I can trust him with the fry for a longer period.

They will be small at 3 weeks - mine just hit the 2 week mark 2/3 days ago and they just got their pectorals and dorsals grown. So they take a while at first to grow. Once you are feeding them 2-3 times a day you will notice a difference quicker.

The ones that are left, if they seem to be fine, are darting/swimming around and exploring, looking for food.. basically active, then I would say they were the strong ones of the bunch and should make it. 

Make sure to siphon 1-2x a day, both on the bottom to remove waste/dead food and top of the water for ammonia.. that will also help speed up the growth, as you will be removing toxins from the water and removing some of the growth stunting hormones they put out.

If this is your first spawn, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much.. this is one of those things where you learn as you go. A lot of breeders have lost easily two thirds of their first spawns because of making mistakes, etc. Now you know to breed them in the larger tank with a higher temp, or a tub in a tank, etc.. that way you can drip new water in continuously, they have more room to spread out and can stay there for 4-5 weeks before needing to go to a bigger grow out, can have the sponge filter ready in there, etc. 

Not saying breeding in a small container/tank is a bad thing, I know a breeder who breeds exclusively in small bowls (I did it successfully too, but there were some negatives to it that made me not want to do it as much).. so it's possible, just have to find what works best for you and your fish, and find out how best to transfer them. Oldfishlady is a master at breeding, she would know how best to transfer such little ones - I'm too scared to move them when so young, so I don't know exactly how one would do it.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Myates, thanks for the tips and support. I've tried to spawn many pairs in the past year or so and this is the only spawn that's survived for this long so its quite heartbreaking every time I see another dead fry. This morning I saw about 3-4 swimming. Some may have been covered by the IAL? I noticed another dead fry  

Anyway I definitely learnt a lot throughout this process and may have to change a few things for the next spawn. May have to be after June when I come back from holiday and when it's warmer. I live Hong Kong and at the moment the air is cool. In the summer the air will be a lot more warmer and humid which should help to keep the spawn tank temp more stable. At the moment the water temp is always fluctuating... probably why so many have died... 

So how big is your latest spawn? How long have you been breeding bettas for?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

The spawn I have growing right now is about 200+ fry, and not for that long 

But you will find what works best for you.. my biggest hump I had to get over was being impatient and learning the best way to condition with the fish I have. You'll find your way.. if you need any ideas/help/suggestions, etc.. feel free to ask here or msg 

Here is my log if you are interested.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I still have 4 survivors!! They've grown a bit and seems more lively since I've added an IAL. Originally I had an IAL in the small container but I didn't add one back in to the larger container. I wonder if this is the reason why some many died?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Already replied to your pm, but here to give ya some more moral support 

Even if you keep one alive in the end.. you were successful. You learn as you go, and your next spawn will be that much more healthy. You can do it!


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm going to siphon some of the dirty water later and replace with water that has an IAL inside. Hopefully they'll be ok. Will keep you updated 

I've definitely learnt a lot throughout this process. Thanks again!!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Don't pour the water into the tank.. you need to drip the water in. I should of said something about that.. I'm sorry. But pouring new water in is still different chemistry. Dripping water in is safer as it allows time for the fry to adjust to any new chemistry/temp.. you can buy drip systems cheaply online.. or can make your own. It's just airline tubing and a valve to control the flow - place the new water container a bit higher than the tank and let gravity do it's job. Usually 1 drip per 5-10 secs is fine at 3 weeks of age. Can do more as well.. mine is currently set at 1 drip per second and they are 19 days old, and they handle it fine.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Just a quick update on the fry: Still have 4 left and they are 4 weeks and 3 days old. Growing slowly a bit more and feeding twice a day. Managed to take some photos of the biggest fry.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

They don't look too bad.. how many milimeters do you think they are? With those colors I would have to say close to 5, which isn't too small for that age at all. Up the feedings though to at least 3 - that will make a big difference.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

I think the largest one (which you can see in the photo) is about 15 millimetres. The smallest one is about 10 millimtres but the colour is much lighter.. More whiter. At what stage do they start growing ventral fins? And at what stage can I start feeding them fry food? I have some powdered food that I use to feed my guppy fry.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

You can try feeding them the fry food now - will be difficult to wean them off of live food though. So may have to mix it in with their other foods for a while and hope they get to liking it.

This may help in seeing the "average" growth sizes.. it does vary based upon how much you feed, water change, temp, etc.


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Ah.. Thanks for that. The chart is very useful. I think comparing to the chart they're about the right size.... Can't wait to see more colour and formation in the bodies...

How's your fry coming along?


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## TwilightNite (Mar 3, 2011)

D'awww! They are so cute! Keep up the good work!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Doing good! I took pictures yesterday, will probably upload them sometime tomorrow.. they are right on schedule too  But I have so many, probably going to start culling shortly to give the bigger ones a better chance.. over 200 in a 10g, it's getting crowded!


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## alunjai (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks Twilight!! They are cute especially when they're darting around.... 

Myates, that's great! Looking forward to your pictures. ha ha.. your tank is over crowded and mine seems empty... but i'm happy with fantastic four


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Here are a few updated pictures of them at 21 days


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