# Veiltail turned himself into a crown tail



## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey guys. I've got a couple questions. Yesterday I put my VT in a 5 gallon tank from his 1 gallon. Everything was fine last night when I went to bed. Woke up today and he now looks like a double tailed crown tail. His tail has a big slit down the middle and he's chewed the tip of his tail to shreds. Any ideas how to help it heal? Should I put him back in his one gallon? Sucks but not sure what to do for him. He never did this in the smaller tank. It's like he's turned into a spazz with all the new room. The only new decoration in this tank is a hidey hole. I felt it when I put it in and it wasn't rough at all so not sure if this is the culprit or not. I posted on the FB group, and was told to try AQ salt and put more plants in the tank. I've never used AQ salt and don't want to mess anything up or kill him. The lights in the tanks I bought were shot, so I'm going to pick up light bulbs for both tanks. When I do I'll try to post pictures of him. This is the only picture I have of him right now on the computer. It was taken when he was still in his 1 gallon.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Are there tons of decorations?


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

No both tanks are pretty sparse right now. His has maybe 4 fake plants and the hidey hole. The hide hole is decent sized so it takes up a corner of the tank. Plenty of room to swim around, through, over, etc. I felt it and felt nothing rough on it. So I don't think it's that. He's also been swimming slightly spastically. Nothing alarming, just differently than he normally does. He was from Wal-mart and no telling how long he was in the cup. I brought him and a CT home and they both went into 1 gallon tanks. They're going to be upgraded. He's now in the 5 and the CT will call the 10 gallon home.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

That is the problem just put toms of decorations in.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Are your plants silk or plastic?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Good point forgot about plastic plant damage.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

Plastic plants are like taking a knife to warm butter. They cut up tails with no mercy and can do some scary damage to them. If they are plastic I would say get silk or better still live plants.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I use live plants too.


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

I've planned on getting live plants, but need to read up on them, care, variety, etc. I've not done live plants before so I'm going to make sure I know what I'm doing before I get them. All the plants passed the panty hose test, but they are plastic. I've been uber careful with him, and like I said, the only new decoration is the hide hole. He had the same plants in his 1 gallon with no torn anything. I added 1 1/2 teaspoons of AQ salt to his tank tonight. He's in a 5 gallon so I hope I added enough. I also was able to pick up 2 bulbs so I was able to get some pictures.

Pre tail chew-

























Current-
Tank-








Tail shots-


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## DoctorWhoLuver (Feb 23, 2012)

From what I can see, a few of your plants are plastic. I might have gotten is tail stuck on one of them and ripped it. 
As for treatment, Aquarium salt will not harm your betta; unless it is used in excessive amounts, then it may cause liver damage. 
For a rip that size, I would use 1/2 to 1/4 of a tsp per gallon.


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

Okay I only used 1 1/2 teaspoons total for the 5 gallons. I also didn't know to mix in a separate container and add that to the water. I just sprinkled it in. Someone said it could cause burns?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

His fins were broken by plants.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

ChoclateBetta said:


> His fins were broken by plants.


I'm not so sure about that. Usually sharp objects will cause long rips vs. the splayed, jagged edges that we see here. When I see chunks missing I usually suspect tail biting, which I'd say is likely the case here especially taking into account the change of environment. It may not be anything to do with the tank (size, decorations, etc.) itself, rather, it could just be the change. Hopefully he will settle in soon. I do however, agree that adding a good number of silk plants in place of the plastic ones will provide a safer and less stressful environment. It's great that you upgraded them though! :-D


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

Tossing it in is fine as it has a larger water volume in which to dissolve and the heat generated from the chemical reaction would be minimal. I used to do it as I was pouring in the new water during a water change, when Rudy was recovering from being a former Petsmart VT girl. She was pretty much finless so I had her in a 1 gallon, doing daily water changes and AQ salt dosing. She's been upgraded to a 2.5 gallon.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

Is your 5 gallon filtered? Does it have much of a current? One of my bettas started biting his tail when my filter cartridge got all gunked up and the water started coming out of the overflow creating a lot more current.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

If you have a filter, he may not be used to it, or the current is too strong, I have the same problem with my VT as he is doing the same thing, and for the same reason, he is currently in a 5 gal, and his tail is shredded, and he has silk, and real plants, so the only thing, is the filter, so if you have a filter, baffle the flow..or opt for an airstone.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I would not do aquarium salt since he just damage his fins and it should heal with extra water changes. And you don't have to use filter if you don't cycle your tank. I have 5 gall and i do 1-50 and 1-100% every 8 days. His tail will/ should heal without treatment. I have tail bitter and his tail heals fast with extra water changes. And it really better do not use salt at all if you don't use therapeutic dose, it will do more harm than help. His immune system will get resistant and it will not help when needed. So do not add a little bit of salt. The dosage on aquarium salt is 1tsp/gall up to 3tsp/gall depending on severity.
But i am really thinking you just need extra water changes. A lot of people have tail bitters and you don't need to treat it everytime , or if he damage his tail you just need to keep water clean to prevent infections. Well at least i never treated my tail bitter just super clean water.
Silk plants good idea
[/FONT]


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Never EVER just dump in aquarium salt! Always dissolve beforehand. Would rather that you be safe than sorry.

I also agree with Sunlight, you do not even need to use aquarium salt. There is no need to medicate, when there is nothing wrong. A split fin, or tail biting won't kill him. Making sure the water is clean and warm for healing.

BEST MEDICINE: clean warm water. Good husbandry aids you in keeping your fish healthy. If you have a permanent tail biter, you will have to get used to it :lol: Charlie does it, and depsite changes to environment and everything he still does it. Not as much mind you, but still.

Tail biting can be caused from many things - one of which is stress. Other possibilities can be: light, how much is in the tank, tank mates, being in a quiet room, being in a traffic heavy room, boredom, sickness, lonliness, etc etc etc. There will never be a "cure" for tail biting, but you can prevent or somewhat discourage. You just have to know what makes him tick  I have a VT who


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I also agree with Sunlight and Senna. AQ salt treatment (1tsp/gal is a therapeutic dose) should be for injuries and severe finrot.

The keepers whose advice I follow don't recommend using salt....any kind, any time.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/salt-freshwater-aquarium-97842/


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

If you have Stress Coat, it help heal fast, I use for my tailbiting betta, and for my VT, but salt isn't necessary, keep water clean, and warm and will grow back..and stress coat


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry got tears mixed up.


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

The tank is filtered and has a baffle. There's not a strong current in it. I put stress coat and prime in the tank when I cycled it and put him in there. He seems more relaxed today. I've also not noticed any more bites/tears. I don't know why the plants would tear him after 1 day in the new tank, when he was in his 1 gallon for a month and a half, with the same plants, and no tears or biting. I think it was stress. He was much more active and interested in me about an hour after putting the AQ salt in the tank. He typically flares and swims to the front of the tank when he sees me. This is a daily activity for him. The water is staying at 78 degrees right now, but I don't have a heater yet for this tank. I check the temp several times a day to make sure it's not too cold and it's only varied between 76-78 since I started the tank. 

























https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3698_10152236804410294_442461674_n.jpg


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Looks lethargic too.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

76-78 is not too bad for temperature. Getting a heater would just keep it from fluctuating downwards too much 

He does not look too bad. If there was a change in anything he could have been stressed. I have had a betta I could not move, without him becoming stressed and biting because of it. So he stayed, with no changed decor, same tank, same room. Just find what triggered it, and play around with what happens to see what you could do to prevent (if you can)


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

80F is best and decorations look sharp.


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## LeoTheLakerBetta (Oct 12, 2012)

Also you don't need to put Prime and Stress Coat at the same time. Stress Coat is a conditioner as well so you can just use that for now.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

ChoclateBetta, 76 is preferably the lowest, and perhaps not the greatest but it will do for now. And 78 is just fine, which is what my bettas sit at (except in summer where it gets hotter).

And +1 about stress coat. It works nicely! About decor, I use plastic plants but they are softer without being super dense in the center thus keeping bettas away from getting snagged in the middle


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

He's most definitely not lethargic. He swims a ton and rarely rests except at night. Those pictures were taken when I was going to bed last night and he was resting on the orange plant. It took me maybe 30 minutes to get those 4 photos due to him moving. He's also getting Hikari Bio-gold. I'm going to read more into real plants. I was going to get some bulbs last night, but like I said, I don't know enough yet to be comfortable with real plants. Every decoration in his tank passed the panty hose test. Like I said, he was fine for a month with the same decor. The day after moving him to the 5 gallon, he nipped his tail to shreds. He's used to being moved due to frequent water changes with the 1 gallon. On the up side, my CT loves his new 10 gallon. He rides the filter current and plays with the bubbles. When he rides the current (mild but it moves him) it reminds me of Finding Nemo where the sea turtles ride the currents. He loves it.


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## cjayBetta (Jan 18, 2011)

OP - I have that SAME filter and I figured out that iit is the filter intake that does it... The fishes tail will get stuck in it, just a little and tear his fins to shreds. It happened to my VT. You need to put a sponge over the filer intake. 

Your little guy will be fine, just keep his water clean so no infections start


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Not to be mean but temp is 76F and the fish is unhealthy.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

The OP already said he is doing a lot better. Your opinion is your opinion, stop pushing it. I've been trying to be nice on many of the same threads we both comment on, but please stop.

As far as I have seen, he seems to be doing a lot better. His color seems normal, he is holding his fins well. His activeness is wonderful!!!b I will suggest a heater just to stop the temperature from possibly dropping :3 BUT... On that note, I am glad he is getting better. 

Also for live plants, I recommend the easiest to care for!! I have them and since I have troubles with live plants these will work for you no problem!! Grab some java fern, java moss, moss balls, and anubias. Those are such hardy plants! I bought one java fern, and now have.... about 10. From the same one. The moss is doubling, the anubias is growing a second one, and the moss ball arrived today <3


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## Sivan (Aug 30, 2010)

ChoclateBetta said:


> Not to be mean but temp is 76F and the fish is unhealthy.


76 degrees is the absolute minimum for a healthy betta fish. Although 78-80 is the ideal range, nothing lower than 76 is the lowest standard for this species. There is an old saying, Chocolate: Correlation does not equal causation. In this case, the fish having its fins damaged is not caused by the temperature at 76 degrees. 

Yes, a heater is needed to prevent the water from dropping any further and it is a good idea to leave yourself some room in case it does drop for an unknown reason but if it were to stay at 76 degrees the fish would be within tropical temperature.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry guys but actually 76-80* is the perfect temperature and also if he was in that temperature he already adjusted to it. I always afraid to write that i have a few bettas live in 74*because the heater they have cant heat higher that that. They live for about 3 years now so believe me 76 is good temperature. This fish came from local breeders lol not from another country. So they pretty much adjusted to this temperature. 

Also if you buy live plants quarantine them first since they can carry disease. And Sena would be the best person who will give you instructions on that. I learned it from her.

Also now you know that any time if you buy new fish always quarantine it before you put it in the main tank.


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## Wendyjo (Oct 19, 2012)

A tail can split like that if he flares alot, so maybe he got over excited in his new tank. I think he'll be fine - just keep an eye on those ragged areas and keep the water clean. A bit of salt won't hurt and will have some antiseptic properties.

I certainly don't think it's the plants or decor causing the problem, or the temp, although I agree a heater is necessary to keep the temps stable. And I'm not sure how someone can looks at a still pic of a fish and state that it looks lethargic!


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the support  He's not my first betta by any means, and can almost guarantee he won't be my last. I'm already considering diving the 10 gallon to "save" another from the awful LPS. Right now my 1 gallon will be my hospital/quarantine tank. 

He's definitely back to his old tricks. I walked into my room (his tank is on my dresser, the 10 is in the living room) and he immediately started his flaring and demanding his food. I think the split is from the filter intake (?) A piece of food drifted by him and he went to get it, and he did go tail first into the intake. I didn't notice any other slits, but I think that's my culprit as far as that goes. I still think he ate his tail. I'm going to get an AQ sponge tomorrow. I just need to figure out how to go about fixing it to where he won't do it again. I've got some ?s about live plants so I'm sure I'll be posting in that section. I was always under the assumption that live plants needed soil, even in an AQ, so I've never done them. I looked today at what walmart offered, just bulbs, and wasn't impressed. Strictly lily bulbs and what looked like a broad green leafed plant that resembled fat grass? It began with an H. Not sure. I really want to try Java grass and Java ferns though.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Ehhh I avoid Walmart "aquatic" plants mainly because it may only want its roots in water, or is not supposed to be in the water. Hygro...somethingorother? Would probably be a lily.


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## craftyjag (Aug 21, 2012)

As a live plant newbie myself, I know it can be intimidating but it's definitely worth giving it a try! As the other (much more experienced!) posters mentioned, I have tried Anubias, Java Fern, Wisteria, Water Sprite, and several types of Crypts and I will never go back to plastic or silk. I ordered the Water Sprite online (for my bigger tank) because no one around here carried it, but the rest of my plants came from either a LFS or Petco (the ones in the little tubes). Just be aware, "snail free" does NOT mean snail free!

Also, just read up on your type of plant before you put it in the tank, some want to be planted in the substrate and some want to be attached to objects so that their rhizomes are not covered. I hide the rocks I attach the Anubias to behind driftwood so that you can't see that part. 

Give it a try, you won't regret how beautiful it makes the tank!


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## broncosfan84 (Apr 11, 2012)

I bought my Anubias on driftwood from Aquabid. Mikeswetpets is the seller. The plants are beautiful and growing great.


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

The only thing stopping me right now is that I've already got both the 5 gallon and the 10 gallon set up. Can the plants grow in the gravel instead of soil? Oh heck.. Guess I need to go start a thread. lol


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## craftyjag (Aug 21, 2012)

Mine are all in gravel. That may not be the absolute optimum for planted tanks but I had already gotten the substrate in when I decided to try plants. They seem to be doing fine.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Hardy plants don't mind. I have gravel in all but two tanks (the two are 1 gallons) with my live plants.


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## MidTnBetta (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm going to look and see what our LPS has as far as plants goes. Do I need to be careful with them, as some of their plants are in tanks w/ fish, and their fish tend to be less than... up to snuff. 


Also as an update on Cooper, his tail looks a ton better. Not quite so ragged and there appears to be some new growth. He's definitely starting to relax in his new digs. I walked in and caught him napping in his hidey hole.


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