# Can I add any additional fish to my tank? (please, don't exaggarate)



## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

let me explain the title before I start.
I've been to r/bettafish and asked about a topic similar to this, plenty of people jumped on me and told me that my tank is already fully stocked, I have a 64 ish liter tank with 8 neon tetras and my betta (which get along perfectly because of my betta's personality) and they have so much place to swim that it boggles the mind that someone says stuff like this.
I feel like people are exaggerating and I always sense elitism in r/bettafish, while I understand there are some ground rules for betta fish like a min of 2.5g and recommended min of 5g but HOLY SMOKES do some people go way overboard with giving people advice on tank size or conditions.


I'm sorry if this seems a bit hostile but it's just that I've been sick of it, I've worked so hard to make my betta's life great with tankmates even, he has a big tank that's lushly planted and I feel like I don't deserve how unfair people at that subreddit are being.

That aside, do you guys honestly think I could add any other types of fishes to this tank? I've thought about maybe 2 or so panda cory's, thoughts?


edit: I read the post again and to be clear, If you honestly and truly think that adding anymore fish is too much, and I mean TRULY AND HONESTLY, then please do say.


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

If your tank is set up for cories, they do best with a sand substrate and live plants, you get a proper shoal of 6 to 8 of them, AND, huge AND you keep up with water changes and have a good filter, I'd say you can add some dwarf cories. Panda cories get 2" long and are very active, while you could technically get away with them in your tank they do best in a 75.7 liter. With your existing livestock I think you'd do best with the smaller species of cories. Pygmy Cories, Dwarf Cories, and Salt and Pepper Cories, should all do great in your tank. You could probably get away with 8 to 10 of them.

Here's a video on the salt and pepper cories


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

Rainbo said:


> If your tank is set up for cories, they do best with a sand substrate and live plants, you get a proper shoal of 6 to 8 of them, AND, huge AND you keep up with water changes and have a good filter, I'd say you can add some dwarf cories. Panda cories get 2" long and are very active, while you could technically get away with them in your tank they do best in a 75.7 liter. With your existing livestock I think you'd do best with the smaller species of cories. Pygmy Cories, Dwarf Cories, and Salt and Pepper Cories, should all do great in your tank. You could probably get away with 8 to 10 of them.
> 
> Here's a video on the salt and pepper cories Salt and Pepper Cory, Corydoras habrosus Species Spotlight - YouTube


My tank has small sized gravel (nutritional for plants) and various live plants, I also have a filter and a heater. and do corydoras' have to be in those big numbers? what's the minimum of cory's I can possibly keep in panda/salt and pepper?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

First, I have had Betta-based community tanks for 40+ years so I am not against them; I think they are great.

Is your tank long or tall? That makes a huge difference in what and how many you can stock.

When stocking, I look at the tank by levels: Top, Middle and Bottom. Right now you have Top and Middle covered; you could even add more Neons if the tank is long as opposed to tall. Pygmy Cory are mid-level fish so I would not recommend them. But the Habrosus/Salt and Pepper that Rainbo recommended would be perfect.

I asked Rachel O'Leary, one of this country's top experts on Nano fish, the minimum number of Nanos in a shoal when housed with a predator (Betta). She said 10-12. So, yes, you need the number of Habrosus/Salt and Pepper Cory that Rainbo suggested. And take in to consideration, that even though *you* believe your Betta is fine with smaller tank mates, the tank mates still see him as a predator.

One thing I have learned is if you see even the most laid-back Betta seeming to stalk a certain fish as a cat stalks its prey, it is time to move the Betta. I had one that was great in a community tank for nearly two years then...KA-POW!...he wasn't. 

When in doubt, plug in here:

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

Edit: True species profiles do not suggest number of gallons required. Rather, they give footprint. For Neons it is minimum 60 x 30 cm; for Habrosus it is the same.


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

JigaGummy said:


> My tank has small sized gravel (nutritional for plants) and various live plants, I also have a filter and a heater. and do corydoras' have to be in those big numbers? what's the minimum of cory's I can possibly keep in panda/salt and pepper?



You can keep them on the gravel, but they do best with sand, so it's not that big of a deal if you stick with your plant substrate. Whatever type of cories you get they should be kept in a minimum group of 6.


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## Shortnsweet (Sep 16, 2015)

I tend to lurk around r/bettafish as well and agree that they can be quite intense, so to speak. I've seen people with heated/filtered/live planted 3.5 gallons get rude comments telling them that it isn't a suitable home for their betta. Any tank under 5 gallons that's posted is highly frowned upon it seems! Don't let them frustrate you or bring you down!!


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> First, I have had Betta-based community tanks for 40+ years so I am not against them; I think they are great.
> 
> Is your tank long or tall? That makes a huge difference in what and how many you can stock.
> 
> ...


My tank is a bit more than 60cm long so yes it is a long tank.
Do you think I could house 10-12 peppered cory's? my bottom portion of the tank is kinda empty now that I look at it.
My betta hasn't disturbed any of the tetras in the first day he was introduced and vice verca so I don't imagine he will get aggressive in the future.


Here's a picture of my tank, tell me what you think about the possibility of corys in there!
I should also mention there are more plants on the way! including java moss, vallisnerias, octopus plants and more cryptocorns!


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

Shortnsweet said:


> I tend to lurk around r/bettafish as well and agree that they can be quite intense, so to speak. I've seen people with heated/filtered/live planted 3.5 gallons get rude comments telling them that it isn't a suitable home for their betta. Any tank under 5 gallons that's posted is highly frowned upon it seems! Don't let them frustrate you or bring you down!!


Yeah I've been noticing that its not only me, and it's mostly the same people commenting on other people's posts because they have a very big tank and cannot imagine another betta in a slighty smaller one *sigh*


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

JigaGummy said:


> My tank is a bit more than 60cm long so yes it is a long tank.
> Do you think I could house 10-12 peppered cory's? my bottom portion of the tank is kinda empty now that I look at it.
> My betta hasn't disturbed any of the tetras in the first day he was introduced and vice verca so I don't imagine he will get aggressive in the future.
> 
> ...


Tank is great for adding more fish and it sounds like a plan as far as the plants go. Should be gorgeous. However, I would add no more fish until it is better planted. Keep in mind what I said: They still see your boy as a predator and need the security not only of a larger shoal but of more plants which breaks up the lines of sight and chase.

Do not expect that because your Betta is fine now he will remain that way. Yes, normally they do; but they are unpredictable fish and all of that can change overnight. 

Some tips:

Use SeaChem Stability when adding new fish to even a cycled tank. It helps compensate for the added bio-load;

Use two filters instead of one. I have found people often forget that tank mates do not have labyrinth organs so they need well-oxygenated water. As you have a Plakat, you don't need to worry about too much current...which is good for tank overall health and great exercise for your Betta. Surface agitation prevents slick biofilm from forming. Oh, the other thing about two filters is if you are *ever* tempted to get another tank you have a cycled filter ready to use....This, says my husband, is the real reason I run two filters in my larger tanks. ;-)

Feed everybody the same thing. Too many, IMO, obsess over feeding the Betta this and one tank mate that and another that. I feed frozen, Fluval Bug Bites for small fish, same for medium-large fish and NorthFin Betta Bits. 

As an aside, I am always saddened when I hear of forums and FB groups that are so judgmental....especially when so many "experts" are just parroting what they've heard and not basing their statements/advice on real-life experience.

This forum is, IMHO, special in that we help people with what they have and while we may suggest changes we do so kindly.

*Clarification:* After thinking about it, I feel I should add that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people who have not had a lot of experience. Their advice is sound and spot-on. I was only referring to those who are dogmatic, short-tempered and unforgiving if you don't do things their way. So, I apologize to those members who fall into the first category. Your contributions to this or any other forum are immeasurable and much appreciated.


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Tank is great for adding more fish and it sounds like a plan as far as the plants go. Should be gorgeous. However, I would add no more fish until it is better planted. Keep in mind what I said: They still see your boy as a predator and need the security not only of a larger shoal but of more plants which breaks up the lines of sight and chase.
> 
> Do not expect that because your Betta is fine now he will remain that way. Yes, normally they do; but they are unpredictable fish and all of that can change overnight.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the advice! the plants should get here in 1-3 days and there are some big ones among it! so the tank would have less empty space so the fish could slither through the plants and hide.
As for the two filters I think I might just use an air pump or something of the sort, since I really do not like the look of 2 filters, while the extra filter for a cycle does sound nice I think an air pump is just easier to manage.
I'll make sure to get the plants before I start thinking about the fish, and when I do get the fish I might just take out Marvin (my betta) first and reintroduce him after the cory's are inside, so he won't think they are intruders.
Thanks again!


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Tank is great for adding more fish and it sounds like a plan as far as the plants go. Should be gorgeous. However, I would add no more fish until it is better planted. Keep in mind what I said: They still see your boy as a predator and need the security not only of a larger shoal but of more plants which breaks up the lines of sight and chase.
> 
> Do not expect that because your Betta is fine now he will remain that way. Yes, normally they do; but they are unpredictable fish and all of that can change overnight.
> 
> ...



Update:
The plants got here and I'm gonna give the tank a few days to acclimate due to the addition of new plants, I also got a beautiful dragon stone for additional decor!
I've posted on reddit again just to test the waters, I wanted to ask about how I should go about introducing my corydoras to my betta once I get them, and I got a comment saying that my tank is overstocked.
I went into AqAdvisor and it showed my tank is 68% stocked or so, I know AqAdvisor can sometimes be unreliable but I don't think if I put it on a different website I will get an overstocked result, the same person told me he has years of experience once I asked for any sources on his claim and mentioned that I got way different comments over here.
Anyhow, I will keep an open and rational mind and just see how the community behaves once the corys arrive, and see what happens and how the tank looks in terms of swimming space, compatibility, temperature etc...


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

JigaGummy said:


> Update:
> The plants got here and I'm gonna give the tank a few days to acclimate due to the addition of new plants, I also got a beautiful dragon stone for additional decor!
> I've posted on reddit again just to test the waters, I wanted to ask about how I should go about introducing my corydoras to my betta once I get them, and I got a comment saying that my tank is overstocked.
> I went into AqAdvisor and it showed my tank is 68% stocked or so, I know AqAdvisor can sometimes be unreliable but I don't think if I put it on a different website I will get an overstocked result, the same person told me he has years of experience once I asked for any sources on his claim and mentioned that I got way different comments over here.
> Anyhow, I will keep an open and rational mind and just see how the community behaves once the corys arrive, and see what happens and how the tank looks in terms of swimming space, compatibility, temperature etc...



You'll never make some of the people on betta websites happy. You could make a betta tank out of a 2 foot deep kiddie pool, replicating a rice paddy, heating and filtering it, but adding some other fish that are naturally found in the betta's native habitat. You would have someone saying that "betta cannot live with other fish and must be kept alone". 

I think your betta, and soon to have cories, will be just fine in the set up you are going to have. As has been said, just keep an eye out for stress, or aggression. I generally give mine a couple weeks to adjust, unless the situation is really bad, so far mine have all adjusted but if they didn't I'd just move the betta. I've found that having lots of plants helps lessen stress and aggression.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Echoing what Rainbo said.

As far as introducing:

There's no need to remove your boy. If you float the bag turn the lights off while the Cories are floating, release them into the darkened tank and leave the lights off at least an hour or two but more is better.

People have trouble when they float the new additions in a lighted tank. This can lead to frustration, aggression and stress as the Betta attacks the bag. In a darkened tank this doesn't seem to happen.


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## JigaGummy (Aug 16, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Tank is great for adding more fish and it sounds like a plan as far as the plants go. Should be gorgeous. However, I would add no more fish until it is better planted. Keep in mind what I said: They still see your boy as a predator and need the security not only of a larger shoal but of more plants which breaks up the lines of sight and chase.
> 
> Do not expect that because your Betta is fine now he will remain that way. Yes, normally they do; but they are unpredictable fish and all of that can change overnight.
> 
> ...


The new plants got here! I just put them in the tank and everyone is doing fantastic!


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