# Insight needed on fin rot treatment



## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 5.5
Does it have a filter? yes
Does it have a heater? yes
What temperature is your tank? 76
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? no

Food:
What food brand do you use? NLS small fish formula, frozen brine shrimp, frozen blood worms
Do you feed flakes or pellets? pellets
Freeze-dried? no
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? once a day usually, 4-5 bites at a time

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? once a day
What percentage of water did you change? 100%
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? dumped out water and replaced with fresh water
What additives do you use? prime and AQ

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 7.6
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? a few weeks ago, maybe a month
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? his fins are shorter
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? no change in behavior
Is your Betta still eating? yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? treating with AQ and clean water every day
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? no
How long have you owned your Betta? Was he or she a rescue? since july, he was a rescue

I had Meraxes in a 20g with some cories, otos, and ghost shrimp for a little while and he was doing awesome. I put in a few tetras but the next day noticed Meraxes had clamped fins and they just didn't look good so I removed the tetras and treated Meraxes in a quarantine tank. He seemed to be doing better so I put him back in the 20g but then his fins looked strange again. This is what they looked like at first: 










I did some research and came to the conclusion it was fin melt. (I've had people ask if he's pale but he isn't, he's always been kinda grey with flashes of green/blue on his scales and fins.)

This is what it looks like now:


























I quarantined him again and have been treating him for one week now. The problem I'm having is that I am not sure how to accurately treat him. At first I had him in a heated 5.5 gallon tank (temp was at 82 degrees) and I was doing 100% water changes daily. After several days his fins appeared worse so I did some more research and read to keep him in colder water (76 or so) to slow down the process of the fin rot. I moved him into a 1g hospital tank with no heater or filter and maintained the temp at 74 degrees while doing 100% water changes every day and adding AQ. However now I am reading that AQ doesn't help with fin rot? And I'm still confused about what the temperature should really be at. I'm moving him back to the 5.5g today. Do I need to continue doing 100% daily water changes or is that not good either? I am confused and frustrated that there are so many conflicting tips and advice. @[email protected]


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

Treat the tank with Seachem ParaGuard. Every 24 hours do a 45% water change and add ParaGuard at 1 cap-full per 10 gallons of tank water. Remember to remove the activated carbon from your filter and throw it away. When the fin rot is gone, discontinue ParaGuard and add fresh activated carbon back to your filter.

Is it a heavily planted tank? If not, the tank is not cycled.


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> Treat the tank with Seachem ParaGuard. Every 24 hours do a 45% water change and add ParaGuard at 1 cap-full per 10 gallons of tank water. Remember to remove the activated carbon from your filter and throw it away. When the fin rot is gone, discontinue ParaGuard and add fresh activated carbon back to your filter.
> 
> Is it a heavily planted tank? If not, the tank is not cycled.


The 20g is a heavily planted tank that is cycled, the 5.5 is empty because I am using it as a hospital tank. The sponge filter in the 5.5g came out of the 20g tank so it is cycled as well. Do you know what I should keep the temperature at?


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

vaetki said:


> The 20g is a heavily planted tank that is cycled, the 5.5 is empty because I am using it as a hospital tank. The sponge filter in the 5.5g came out of the 20g tank so it is cycled as well. Do you know what I should keep the temperature at?


For a betta - 75F in the QT. The reason why is that in the case of bacterial infections, warmer temps will cause the bacteria to grow faster. Since fin rot is a bacterial infection we want to slow down the growth rate of that bacteria so that you can treat the fish.


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> For a betta - 75F in the QT. The reason why is that in the case of bacterial infections, warmer temps will cause the bacteria to grow faster. Since fin rot is a bacterial infection we want to slow down the growth rate of that bacteria so that you can treat the fish.


Okay awesome, will do! One more question, does it matter if I have the filter running or no? I have it on currently but also read somewhere that it shouldn't be running in a hospital tank..?


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

vaetki said:


> Okay awesome, will do! One more question, does it matter if I have the filter running or no? I have it on currently but also read somewhere that it shouldn't be running in a hospital tank..?


You can run the filter in a hospital tank. It doesn't hurt anything. There's two types of hospital tanks; 

One is where you run a filter and keep it cycled with ammonia drops when there is no fish in the tank. This is the tank where you can use medications that are safe for the cycle, and generally there is no chemical media in the filter unless you are changing medications.

The second type of hospital tank is not cycled. In this tank medication is used that would normally kill the cycle. But, you must do daily water changes and re-dose medication accordingly. I find it best to at the very least run a sponge filter to help provide some oxygenation in the water, regardless of weather or not the inhabitants are labyrinth fish.


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> You can run the filter in a hospital tank. It doesn't hurt anything. There's two types of hospital tanks;
> 
> One is where you run a filter and keep it cycled with ammonia drops when there is no fish in the tank. This is the tank where you can use medications that are safe for the cycle, and generally there is no chemical media in the filter unless you are changing medications.
> 
> The second type of hospital tank is not cycled. In this tank medication is used that would normally kill the cycle. But, you must do daily water changes and re-dose medication accordingly. I find it best to at the very least run a sponge filter to help provide some oxygenation in the water, regardless of weather or not the inhabitants are labyrinth fish.


That makes sense, I never knew that until now. Do you know if Seachem Paragard will kill the cycle?


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

vaetki said:


> That makes sense, I never knew that until now. Do you know if Seachem Paragard will kill the cycle?


Seachem ParaGuard is safe for the cycle. ;-)


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> Seachem ParaGuard is safe for the cycle. ;-)


Great  I did go and get some today and treated him after doing his 45% water change. Thanks for your help, I'll update again soon!!


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Yesterday was day two of treating Meraxes with seachem paragard and this morning he seems to be swimming around erratically. He is bumping into things, and at one point was laying on the bottom tilted almost to his side. This isn't normal behavior for him... anyone know why he would be acting like this?

edit: it's pretty early in the morning, around 4:15. he seems to be actually looking at me now and acting a little better... I'm not sure if the fact that it's so early is what made him act strange.


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

It sounds like there may be something other than fin rot going on, but there's really no way to tell what that might be at this point. Continue with the ParaGuard and the water changes.

Do you have him on a normal circadian rhythm (day and night cycle)? (IE; Only keeping his lights on during the daylight hours, and leaving lights completely off when the sun is down.)


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> It sounds like there may be something other than fin rot going on, but there's really no way to tell what that might be at this point. Continue with the ParaGuard and the water changes.
> 
> Do you have him on a normal circadian rhythm (day and night cycle)? (IE; Only keeping his lights on during the daylight hours, and leaving lights completely off when the sun is down.)


Yep he's on a day and night cycle! I had my desk light on because I was taking my dog out (it doesn't shin directly on his tank but it lights up the area he's in). He is acting normal now so I think I may have just caught him in a daze from having the light on..


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

vaetki said:


> He is acting normal now so I think I may have just caught him in a daze from having the light on..



Great news!!


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

annnnd I'm back. @[email protected] I just noticed tonight that there's a spot on his dorsal fin that looks like what he had before (which I'm assuming was fin melt? posted on first page) which is confusing because his water conditions have been pristine for the past two weeks now... :/


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

I wish I had good news but unfortunately that's not the case. x_x

Meraxes has started flashing... I'm not sure why. Temp has remained around 75 degrees, I'm doing 45% water changes every 24 hours, and I'm still dosing him with ParaGard. His fins are still looking a bit rough:


















Any ideas why he might be flashing all of a sudden? :/


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

How much are you dosing?


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> How much are you dosing?


Half a cap because he's in a 5g. I put it in after the water change.


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

vaetki said:


> Half a cap because he's in a 5g. I put it in after the water change.


Just wanted to check.

Something in the water is making him uncomfortable, although I can't imagine what. The ParaGuard should be soothing, so I don't think it's that.

Can you do a full testing of your water chemistry right before you do your next water change (so 24 hours after you've used Prime or other dechlorinator).? Just to check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH to see where they are 24 hours after your last water change.

Edit: Did you remember to remove the carbon from the filter? (Apologies if you did. Just want to check everything.)


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> Just wanted to check.
> 
> Something in the water is making him uncomfortable, although I can't imagine what. The ParaGuard should be soothing, so I don't think it's that.
> 
> Can you do a full testing of your water chemistry right before you do your next water change (so 24 hours after you've used Prime or other dechlorinator).? Just to check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH to see where they are 24 hours after your last water change.


Yeah, I'll do that tomorrow because I just did his water change for today. He did it maybe 5-6 times in a row then stopped and hasn't done it since. Not sure if that's normal or not... Also yes the carbon is removed.

edit: it looks like he's getting fin melt on his bottom fin as well. @[email protected] I don't know what else to do at this point..


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Here's what his fins look like now: 










Not seeing any sign of improvement  any other ideas or suggestions to help him heal?


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

Sometimes it takes a while before they begin to heal. As long as it's not getting any worse, when the regrowth begins you'll see the edges are kind of whitish.

I recently had a few of my tetra pass away (natural causes I'm pretty sure. I've had them awhile) and when I bought new ones to replace them I didn't notice one had some severe fin loss. Between the ParaGuard and the Kordon Fish Protector his fin was almost completely grown back in the 30 days he was in quarantine. Two of the best products ever made IMHO.


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> Sometimes it takes a while before they begin to heal. As long as it's not getting any worse, when the regrowth begins you'll see the edges are kind of whitish.
> 
> I recently had a few of my tetra pass away (natural causes I'm pretty sure. I've had them awhile) and when I bought new ones to replace them I didn't notice one had some severe fin loss. Between the ParaGuard and the Kordon Fish Protector his fin was almost completely grown back in the 30 days he was in quarantine. Two of the best products ever made IMHO.


I'll definitely need to pick up some Kordon Fish Protector soon! It sounds great and has good reviews. Hopefully that will help as well!


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Update: Meraxes is starting to be super lethargic.  He's just laying in the bottom corner. Fins aren't looking any better either..


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## Mousie (Feb 16, 2015)

It looks like there's something more than fin rot going on. I wish I could tell you what that was. 

Have you tested the water after waiting 24 hours from the last water change?


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## vaetki (Jul 7, 2015)

Mousie said:


> It looks like there's something more than fin rot going on. I wish I could tell you what that was.
> 
> Have you tested the water after waiting 24 hours from the last water change?


I wish I knew what it was..  he seems to be a bit pale today and he wasn't very interested in eating the blood worms I gave to him. I'm really bummed out and hoping he recovers soon... 

I haven't tested the water yet, I keep forgetting. x_x I will set an alarm on my phone to do it tomorrow as I just did his water change 10 minutes ago.


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