# F Copper Dragon Red Wash HM X M Galaxy Candy Koi HMPK



## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

*Gen 1*
_The goal of this pairing was long bodied large bettas (not giants) that display marble, copper. and partial dragons, with the expectations of solid colors to.

*Male:* Galaxy Candy Koi HMPK_










Unfortunately I have lost most of my photos of the male and since petted him out, so cannot provide flarinng photos, he was a overall relatively nice male, Decent length of body, nicely filled out, very nice 10 point dorsal. 2 ray male. Great head shape and peduncle. Anal fin is to long for my liking but correctable. Lovely Caudal Spread.

*Female:*_ Copper Dragon Black Based with Red Wash Longfin_










_Will replace photo later on

*This female was a loan from another breeder. She is terminal with a tumor so got the opportunity to breed her before she went out.

This Female is a big girl, awesome length of body and has a nice caudal spread, I really liked her dorsal and she had quite a nice shapely anal fin. Lovely head and color distribution. You can't see in the photo but she has awesome ventral's and over all very nice form that could be worked on easily through line breeding.

Love the coloring, while I do not want to work with full dragons, the idea of parti dragons is very appealing to me, and I love the copper which I have been after for ages._

*Maintenance*


I aimed to do daily 50% water changes once fry were free swimming. There were days where this was not doable.
Micro Worms for first 2-3 days after free swimming
Baby Brine Shrimp all days after that
Grated Frozen Blood Worms 6 weeks on
Daphnia Live once fry are large enough
Temp: 28-30 degrees Celsius

*Lessons from last spawn*


10 gallon breeder instead of 5 gallon breeder
Once fry are free swimming with caudal development moving to a 150 liter grow out with sponge filter
_- _Added java fern to the bare bottom grow out which gave fry plenty of resting places and infusoria to nibble on
- Much more gentle on the water changes, and more careful about my methods.

*Questions:*


How to do delicate slow water changes without sucking fry out or changing water to fast?
Is HMPK genetically LFsf?
While I have a general idea of what colors from the spawn I will get, always interested to hear peoples predictions 

*Spawn date: 02/06/2022

Rough number of eggs:* 400

*Hatch Date: *03/06/2022 | 5:33pm


*5/06/2022*

Way more fry than I expected have survived with the male previously being a rather poor parent. It looks like the nest has a beard! I've tried counting and I'm guessing at least 350 fry are alive and well )










Will update at things go!


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Free swimming as of today  havent seen any dead fry on the bottom of the tank~!


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## Feanor (Nov 13, 2020)

I‘ll just reply to your water changing question as this might be the most urgent and @indjo knows more about your other questions.

You can use an air stone and a piece of air line tubing. The bigger the stone, the faster the water will get sucked out. So just find the appropriate size for your needs.

I use a 1.5 inch in diameter for a grow out and a slightly smaller for the spawning tank.

For cleaning the bottom, I use a piece of airline tubing with an attached "stiff" tube at the end. 
This is the delicate part of the job😀…as you know.

For refilling I just take off the stone and clip the air line to my fresh water container (on top of the tank), make a knot and let drip in on whatever speed I wanted it. (Just for the spawning tank - in the grow out I gently pour fresh water over the sponge filter.)


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

To siphon out water, you can attach an airstone or sponge to tube. But IMO, most important is the distance between tank's water level and waste bucket. The higher the distance, the stronger the suction.When refilling, I attach a modified bamboo chopstick so water drips accordingly.

I don't clean the floor until fry are 5mm. When I do, I use mild suction - just enough to suck out wastes. 

Yes, short fin is recessive against long fin. You will get mainly long fin, some in between, and sone short fin.

Determining which females are more long/short fin will be difficult. I assume those with curved down bottom line anals are long fins while straight bottom lines are PKs . . . . But that's not always the case.

Marbles are too unpredictable. Unless you have a line going and showing certain tendencies, it's difficult to predict. I recently paired marbles to solids, and got some marbles that resembles the parent's line color variations. So patterned marble x solid can produce patterned marbles IF it has been bred for generations (genetically fixed/strong).


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Oops I thought I had replied to this, thank you @indjo and @Feanor , thats all brilliant advice and I folllowed it all  Only lost 2-3 fry

Regarding this spawn, all is going really well. 4 weeks old and at 5.5 weeks of development  Colors and iridescence are starting to show, will update when their colors are more clear!

No filter and dirty floor/mold as I was getting tank ready to clean/water change



http://imgur.com/sSHlyc0


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

A bit behind in development as have been struggling to keep up with water changes

6 week old spawn:



http://imgur.com/PDrSTps


All coloring up gradually, definitely to many fry for the grow out, trying to make space as quickly as i can.


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

*Advice needed:*

I've noticed some spooning in some of my fry, their about 6 weeks now but a little behind in development as I've been ill so a bit slack on water changes. Is this actual spooning or is it something they might grow out of? About 25% of the spawn has it

Thanks for any replies! Cheers!


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## Feanor (Nov 13, 2020)

I‘ll tag our moderator @indjo for that, as he knows a ton about development of fry (and breeding in general).

Maybe he can assess, what to anticipate of those babies.

All I know is, that breeding out spooning tendencies can be achieved by selective breeding quite easily.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes that looks like spooning.
You can breed it out - crossing it to ideal head form, but may take a few generations to really get it cleaned out.


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Small update, 7 weeks old now 

Thank you everyone for your input regarding spooning, will see about either terminating the line from the program or getting a outcross sorted for gen 2.



http://imgur.com/1vcy0XA


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Havent posted in a while, Plan to dump photos over the next few days of fish. Their caudals are growing to their mature length.

Keeping a eye on this boy, caudals only developing now, but love the body form


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Grabbed a video for ya'll 



http://imgur.com/iYzcTSv


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Bummed out seeing the uneven caudal ray splits. No chance this could correct i guess? 11 weeks old.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry for late reply - thought I already commented.

I doubt these will show more ray splitting. However if you're willing to continue breeding them, I suggest you look for an 8 ray female - you should get some 4 rays HM and maybe a few 8 rays.

**** NEVER breed a pair of 8 rays unless you are ready/willing to cull the whole batch. To be safe, its best to cross 4 to 8 or breed a pair of 4 rays.


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Thank you @indjo,great insight regarding the ray question 
I plan to keep 8 rays and under in my lines as I have no desire for rose tails or feathertails. Health > Conformity > Color

Heres a few girlsI snagged some photos of, various levels of quality


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

A few Gen 1 Boys


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## bluecollie (9 mo ago)

Thought ya'll might be interested to see one of the oddball girls from this spawn, looks like a koi with 'purple' dragon scales, even though neither are genetically feasible in this spawn;


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