# Cycling with soil.



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

Sooo since I now have a 6 gallon free and some soil I plan to use, I want to set it up. I can't add plants yet as I don't have a spare lamp, but I'll buy one at some point. Anyway, I do want to attempt cycling a tank again but I'm wondering, since soil releases ammonia for the first few weeks, will this ammonia be enough to get the tank cycled? I'll have to add some aragonite sand to get the pH to about 6.7 as it naturally sits at 6 in my tanks - I've heard that's too low for bacteria to grow, which probably explains why none of my other tanks are cycled. I don't know what I'll stock the tank with but I want it to be cycled before adding any fish. 

So, what I want to do is this. Add the soil, fill up the tank and run the filter (maybe heater, do bacteria need it?) and let it sit until it's cycled. Will this work? Will I need another source of ammonia and will the tank require any water changes? 

I'd appreciate input on this


----------



## AquaKai (Jan 2, 2012)

Kisiel said:


> Sooo since I now have a 6 gallon free and some soil I plan to use, I want to set it up. I can't add plants yet as I don't have a spare lamp, but I'll buy one at some point. Anyway, I do want to attempt cycling a tank again but I'm wondering, since soil releases ammonia for the first few weeks, will this ammonia be enough to get the tank cycled? I'll have to add some aragonite sand to get the pH to about 6.7 as it naturally sits at 6 in my tanks - I've heard that's too low for bacteria to grow, which probably explains why none of my other tanks are cycled. I don't know what I'll stock the tank with but I want it to be cycled before adding any fish.
> 
> So, what I want to do is this. Add the soil, fill up the tank and run the filter (maybe heater, do bacteria need it?) and let it sit until it's cycled. Will this work? Will I need another source of ammonia and will the tank require any water changes?
> 
> I'd appreciate input on this


I don't think that it releases too much ammonia to get the cycling process begun, or quickly. I've set up several tanks with soil with a sand cap and I haven't had too many issues with the ammonia. They only time I've had an ammonia spike is when I would pull up a plant and there would be a release of soil (and it had to be a large amount as well).

I would still add pure ammonia to the tank just to get it going and get a large amount of bacteria going.

Wow that is a low pH! Your water is perfect for cardina shrimp and betta;-) I'm jealous! Adding that sand to your tank will definitely help cycle.

Here's what I'd do with your tank: add soil (about 1/2 to 1" of soil (~1 1/2 to 2 1/2 cm)), add sand (about double the height of your sand), fill 'er up, put the filter and heater in (you don't really _need_ the heater but it will speed up the process, bacteria reproduce quicker with warm water), add some ammonia to the tank to about 3-4 ppm. This is the basic set up. You'll have to test the water throughout the cycle, adding more ammonia when it gets low. After about 1-2 weeks test for nitrites and nitrates. Nitrites will appear before nitrates. When you start to see these start testing the tank about every day. When you start to see ammonia dropping to 0 in one day, put the full 4ppm of ammonia in the tank, let it go for 24 hours if it's zero: do a big water change (I'm talking 75-90%) to get your nitrates down, and you're done!!! If it isn't zero keep going until that does happen. You should only do one water change the entire cycle.

I think that covers all your questions


----------



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

The problem is that it's near enough impossible to find pure bottled ammonia around here haha. Which is why I'm looking for alternatives  

Yes, mywater is perfect for betttas and some other species of fish but it can be tiring especially since my tanks are refusing to cycle lol. Oh well. Frequent water changes to keep ammonia down are the norm but I'd like to keep some more fragile species in the future so it would be nice to have a cycled tank! 

I'll do what you say and look for ammonia once again. Maybe I'll have more luck this time!


----------



## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

AquaKai said:


> I don't think that it releases too much ammonia to get the cycling process begun, or quickly. I've set up several tanks with soil with a sand cap and I haven't had too many issues with the ammonia. They only time I've had an ammonia spike is when I would pull up a plant and there would be a release of soil (and it had to be a large amount as well).
> 
> I would still add pure ammonia to the tank just to get it going and get a large amount of bacteria going.
> 
> ...



How deep is your sand cap? The sand, if too deep, will block the ammonia and other stuff from leaching through, as the diameter of sand grains tends to be very fine, allowing for the sand to pack densely together. This can be avoided with sands of thicker diameters, which is why many online recomment pool filter sand (pretty sharp though! D. If the sand is of a small diameter and is too thick, the soil becomes too anaerobic, causing uptake issues for the plants, and toxicity issues for the fish if and when the sediment is disturbed. 

As far as I am aware, especially among planted tank enthusiasts this side of the pond, when using soil, they avoid adding fish for at least 6 weeks. In fact, the planted lot here are moving away from any tested cycyling (I know, the horror!) as the test kits are apparently inaccurate (May not be precise but Im pretty sure they give a good indication) and don't hold with colonies building faster than 6 weeks. But what they do say is add soil, plant, wait 6 weeks and the tank should be stable enough to start stocking; In other words a properly planted tank is 'automatically' cycled after six weeks. It's confusing, mind-blowing and intriguing. I am still testing, and adding sooner as per tests as I have never had any health issues from cycling with seeder media, planting and adding a week or so later (test dependant). This is all from a discussion elsewhere after raising your softwater/ph issue in that one tank, Kisiel  

I would say its unlikely to be enough to cycle for a fish, but that will depend on water change schedules and whether you are seeding and what stocking levels you are aiming for. I cannot see it hurting the cycle.  May want to reduce any pure ammonia if you csan get it, in line with test results. Im testing the John Innes atm


----------



## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

BettaMummy, you always surprise me with your knowledge. I always have to re read your posts a couple of times to take it all in lol. 

That's interesting, about the six week rule. I'll keep that in mind: don't want any fish dying on me - again! (Heartbroken about Yoshio, I'm so sorry he passed :c) 

By "plant" do you mean just add any amount of plants or does it need to be heavily planted with fast growing stem plants? I know that with NPTs where folk want to add fish immediately they're usually advised to add lots and lots of stem plants but I don't really have that many to spare! I don't have any cycled media to kick start the cycle, sadly :/ so we're doing everything from scratch. 

I'm really glad you've replied because I can ask you things now: do you know where to find bottled ammonia in the uk? Apparently not in asda lol. 
I remember you talking about that soil! How are you getting on with it?
I bought Miracle Gro... But I don't know if it's the right stuff. Knowing me, I probably bought the wrong thing hahha. Is this it?


----------



## donovan (Jun 24, 2014)

For a dirt tank, you need to buy Miracle Gro Organic. I used it and it worked great.


----------



## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

Kisiel said:


> BettaMummy, you always surprise me with your knowledge. I always have to re read your posts a couple of times to take it all in lol.


I can only apologise, I have too much semi-free time on my hands and end up reading up on fish tanks and planted tanks for a lot of it!



Kisiel said:


> That's interesting, about the six week rule. I'll keep that in mind: don't want any fish dying on me - again! (Heartbroken about Yoshio, I'm so sorry he passed :c)


Me too, but he was always stunted and skinny, so not unexpected. Can only think he had genetic issues as all my other bettas are huge compared to him. :/ Probably for the best, as we did all we could to get him fatter and healthier. 



Kisiel said:


> By "plant" do you mean just add any amount of plants or does it need to be heavily planted with fast growing stem plants? I know that with NPTs where folk want to add fish immediately they're usually advised to add lots and lots of stem plants but I don't really have that many to spare! I don't have any cycled media to kick start the cycle, sadly :/ so we're doing everything from scratch.


Well planted at least. Not jungle, not even heavily planted, but much more than only two or three slow-growers, if that helps? It is also much more efficient if they are rooted plants, so anubias will have less of an impact than would, say, Cabomba or others that develop rapid root networks in the soil. Hence why stem plants are often recommended. 

I need to work on a cycling a planted tank thing a bit more. Like my rocks banter but with dirt and flora.  Also, having looked into it a bit more last night (battling insomnia for no reason last night) I have found that garden soil should release enough ammonia to cycle, where AQ soil may not be as rapid. 



Kisiel said:


> I'm really glad you've replied because I can ask you things now: do you know where to find bottled ammonia in the uk? Apparently not in asda lol.


Nope, nor tescos or Sainsburys though the latter does apparently stock it in some larger stores. Homebase was my go-to. I know yours was about, 9 miles away and you were having car issues before when we talked. 

This one is the one I use. Also use it for cleaning fishtank stuff if it gets limescale encrusted.










Kisiel said:


> I remember you talking about that soil! How are you getting on with it?


It went in on... Friday night. Pre-soaked for two days in a bucket, regular aggitation. forgot to water change the bucket, so decided to do it in tank. Mistake. Soak soil and do teh w/c to get it margianlly clear in the bucket is easier. Six 90% waterchanges made it look... like amuddy puddle. D: But it got ride of the big stuff and looked by that point like the aquarium soil did when it went in the tanks, so i left it. Daily 50% w/c til the damned driftwood sinks. all my plants are acclimated to the tank but are either free-floating or in their pots 'til I can scape the wood into place. Might try in a moment by using a large pebble to hold it down. :/ No fish in, i have move keiji upstairs into a two gallon for a few weeks, until i am sure this tank is stable.  



Kisiel said:


> I bought Miracle Gro... But I don't know if it's the right stuff. Knowing me, I probably bought the wrong thing hahha. Is this it?





donovan said:


> For a dirt tank, you need to buy Miracle Gro Organic. I used it and it worked great.


Exactly this. The problem with the normal potting mix is that there are added fertilizers which will wreak havok in a fish tank. Thats why only MG organic and John Innes tend to be used in the UK, with JI3 being much, much easier to find. I can't find the MG at my local garden centre so just bought JI instead! XD


----------



## donovan (Jun 24, 2014)

I ended up buying it of EBay. Shipping was free so it wasn't that bad a price.


----------



## BettaMummy87 (Jul 26, 2014)

Uk ebay didnt have it last I checked. Had a lot of potting mixes and a lot of organic stuff, but no organic potting mix. :/ Amazon might but also didnt when I was looking last week.


----------

