# Tank plans. [Includes bettas, corys, plecos, and koi]



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

This is from my entry in my journal, Lyzz's Journal. =]

Two days ago, i jumped the gun, and bought two tiny corydoras, with then intention of making a new tank...but i didnt research well enough, and that resulted in one, the albino, dying. The green one is still trying to hang on, but im 95% positive that hell die too.
Once again, me being impatient killed some fish that didnt need to.
Though, from the moment we got them, they were acting funny...i guess ill never know.

But because of this, i now have a plan, and if i stick to the plan, everything will be alright, and Ill have four healthy thriving tanks.

So, the skeleton of my plan looks like this:

2.3 gal - one male betta, a few snails.

9.5 gal - Sickfish and Orange, two koi, one 4 inches the other six. [they are already happily living in this tank, just the location in the house is changing.

10.5 gal - 6 corys, 1 male betta, pleco [none are bought yet, and yes i know plecos get huge, im planning on it, i will devote an entire tank to him/her when bigger.]

13.7 gal - three 7.5-inch koi, who are currently living in a 10 gal together for the winter, and its slightly murky, so im hoping giving them the 3+ gallon upgrade with a filter upgrade[found out my mom had been using a 10gal filter, instead of a 20gal, and with the size of these fish, its no wonder the water is such poor quality!] The koi live in a pond in the spring/summer/fall. Next year well be buying a 50 gal or larger, depending on how big the koi are, so im starting my search now!

I also have a small bowl containing ramshorns, and ill be starting a small tank with shrimp, as tankmates, and food for the koi.

So, what do you think?

Ive been doing alot of work and research, so, im hoping this goes with smooth sailing!


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

The koi can actually live in the pond year round; they can survive at temps as low as 34F. If you are worried about it freezing over you can put a pond bubbler in the pond. I had to get one of those one year when my pump broke mid-winter. Saved me major heartache. 

Koi grow fast when they are young, and I'm worried that your koi will be stunted in the tank they are in. They are like goldfish and produce a lot of waste. The recommended size for koi is 500 gal per fish (often times stated as 1 inch of fish per 10 gal of water). A 6 in koi is not happy in a 10 gal tank. Upgrading to a 15gal will not make them happy. I overwintered koi like that in a 55gal with waaay over-filtration. Koi are pond fish. Not aquarium fish. 

Here is a video to understand koi stocking:


----------



## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I would get a much larger tank for your koi winter tank than a 50 gallon. I wouldn't go less than 100 gallons. If the pond is large enough, they could easily be a foot long by next winter, possibly more. Alternatively, make the pond deeper or get a pond heater so that you don't need to winter them indoors. 

6 cories, a betta and a pleco will overstock a 10.5 gallon. Plecos, even small varieties like bristlenose, produce a lot of waste. Even 6 cories is pushing it, unless they are pygmies. If they are pandas, stick to 5, and only 4 of larger species. 

That's my 5 cents.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

The pond is a 2.5 ft deep plastic pond, and two years in a row we lost our koi. So, this year, we got three koi, and two goldfish, and the two goldfish and one of the koi went from about an inch and a half to 6-7 inches! But one of the koi only got to just about 6 inches, and one only about 3.5. Thats the one we call Sickfish...He has serious sbp, and he wont be going out into the pond next warm season, see if i can fatten him up...i think the bigger fish werent letting him eat, or maybe hes just a sickly fish to begin with. But Sickfish is doing alot better since bringing them all inside, And Him and Orange are pretty much inseperable..they swim together, and play together and ride the bubbles, they really enjoy themselves in thier tank..Im moving them downstairs, for my mom, so she can enjoy them, since the three other kois done have the amount of freedom that the other two do. I dont know what to do for them though. We definitely dont have the money or space to get a tank big enough, we dont have a garage, and leaving them outside would surely mean death...well, maybe not this year, since the snow is strangely absent this year, but leaving them outside in the winter would mean death any other year in regular circumstances..So from what i see, its kill the fish every winter, and get a new stock, or have slightly stunted fish...Any advice Id love to hear it...but we are very strapped for cash...the fish for the cory tank would be given to us by a friend who works in a rarely great LPS, and who has too many cory babies.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Unfortunately, koi keeping and having a pond in general are not for those with tight wallets. How many gallons does your pond hold? Anything under 500 gal is generally recommended to only be a goldfish pond. Also, does your pond have any filtration? That might be another reason you are losing fish in the winter. The fact that you are losing them means something is seriously wrong with your pond. Stunted fish are sick fish.


----------



## Draug Isilme (Aug 7, 2011)

Maybe instead of Koi, you should get a smaller kind of goldfish? Like Ryukin's, ranchu's, lionheads, fantails, oranda's, etc. These kind grow from 6-8 inches. You'd still be able to bring them in for the winter in a tank you might be able to afford. However, I'm not quite sure of the differences in bioload along with inch per gallon rule with the different types of goldfish.... I've only come across "you need 20 gallons for one goldfish and 10 gallons for every additional goldfish," but I've never seen it specified. I'm sure it's out there, and there's obviously going to be more bioload from a common goldfish than a ryukin, but that's something you should definitely look into when you get the chance.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

I wish someone wouldve told us that in the begining!

This is a picture I found online, my pond is in between an Asagi and a Bekko.

We do have a pump in the pond, its cleaned twice a week, but sits under trees where there are pine needles, and birds and squirrels..we have fishing line, so they dont nab our fish, but other than that, there is generally alot of gunk in the bottom, but the fish love to swim in it, and bury themselves in it, but the water is generally clear, so they can get to cleaner water.

The pump is also a fountain, homemade, so there is plenty of aeration. There is also a small waterfall.
What can you suggest, I dont want sick fish, though they seem to be fine, and happy to me!


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I second Draug Isilme's suggestion. Some fancies such as ryukins and fantails (but not ranchu, lionhead, bubble eyes, or veiltails) are hardy enough to survive in a pond for the summer and small enough to be housed inside in the winter. The recommendation for 20 gal per goldfish and then another 10 per additional goldfish is for fancies, and it works rather well. Most people go by the 1 inch of fish per 10 gal for common goldfish as they have a bioload similar to koi. 

Commons shouldn't be housed in anything smaller than 100 gal for the winter. If you want to overwinter fish, I would get some ryukin and fantail goldfish. 

Looking at the size of the pond, I'm almost certain that pond is going to be waaay too small for even one koi. It looks more like a goldfish pond. I think it would be best to rehome the koi, and either clean up the pond and leave common goldfish in it year round or have some fancies in it for the summer because fancies can live in a 50 gal tank. 

Also, that gunk at the bottom is what is killing your fish in the winter. That gunk decomposes and eats up oxygen. This causes the water to become anoxic, and the fish suffocate. The gunk is what needs to be cleaned out of the pond. 

It would really help if you could post a picture of your pond so we can see the setup you have. I'm having a hard time picturing the filtration you are talking about.

EDIT: I completely forgot this option, but if you want to give them a larger and cheaper home you could buy huge plastic tubs from walmart. They are much cheaper than tanks and give the fish added space they need. The only downside is that you can't observe the fish as well, and of course the tubs are ugly. But it does serve as a good temp home.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, then i have two koi to rehome!

Two of the fish that were in the pond are goldfish anyways, regular ones, and Sickfish is going to be staying with me, ask he barely grew at all the past 18-20 months, and His antics makes me happy...plus i nursed him back to health, so im quite attached!

Im going to the pet store tomorrow, so im going to see if they will take my two koi, or i know my friend has a huge koi/goldfish tank, and maybe shell trade with me..

My mom has had this pond for about ten years, our first koi lasted about four and a half years, thats when we decided to try to winter them, and they died. I wish some one had told us back then!

My pond is frozen, i can go out tomorrow and take a picture, but the pump is in the shed, packed in the back, since its oneof the first things we do when the cold hits. Ill try to find a picture of it online though.

So, when this is all said and done, Ill have Sickfish in a 14 gallon.is there anything else i can have in the tank with him? He is constantly with orange, and im afraid hell get depressed with out him, or another fish. Is there anything I can do?


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Rehoming those koi is a good idea. Go see them in a few years. They'll be huge and gorgeous! 

I'm sorry no one told you about koi, goldfish, and pondkeeping. But in your defense, 10 years ago fishkeeping in general was a lot different because the information wasn't as accessible. I almost had a disaster because I got some bad information when building my pond. I've found it is better to bring in professional pond builders; it really makes the difference between a hole in the ground and water feature. 

I would upgrade Sickfish to a 55gal. He'll have more room to swim and you could consider getting him some goldfish friends. I think plants and hiding spaces would offer him more comfort than a friend in his current home. Hornwort would be great as it grows like a weed and koi won't munch on it. Anarcharis is also good, but mine isn't doing so well with my older/less intense lighting.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> Rehoming those koi is a good idea. Go see them in a few years. They'll be huge and gorgeous!
> 
> I'm sorry no one told you about koi, goldfish, and pondkeeping. But in your defense, 10 years ago fishkeeping in general was a lot different because the information wasn't as accessible. I almost had a disaster because I got some bad information when building my pond. I've found it is better to bring in professional pond builders; it really makes the difference between a hole in the ground and water feature.
> 
> I would upgrade Sickfish to a 55gal. He'll have more room to swim and you could consider getting him some goldfish friends. I think plants and hiding spaces would offer him more comfort than a friend in his current home. Hornwort would be great as it grows like a weed and koi won't munch on it. Anarcharis is also good, but mine isn't doing so well with my older/less intense lighting.


 I would love aquatic plants, but my LPS doesn't carry them! I'll start looking for a 55 gallon, I've seen a lot of them on Craigslist, but I the meantime I want to research all my options..so, in your opinion, what would good tank mates be?


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

My LPS never carry any good plants. I rely on LiveAquaria and AquaBid for plants. Really cheap and great quality from both. 

Good tank mates for koi are other koi or goldfish, but the tank is already at capacity with just one koi. The two things you have to look out for with koi are are temp and size. Does it like the water as cool as koi? and Will it fit in the koi's mouth? In the commercial fish trade that basically leaves goldfish. Which are too messy to go in such a small tank that is already overstocked. The circle starts again. Until you can get a larger tank, I really don't see any good tank mates for Sickfish.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> My LPS never carry any good plants. I rely on LiveAquaria and AquaBid for plants. Really cheap and great quality from both.
> 
> Good tank mates for koi are other koi or goldfish, but the tank is already at capacity with just one koi. The two things you have to look out for with koi are are temp and size. Does it like the water as cool as koi? and Will it fit in the koi's mouth? In the commercial fish trade that basically leaves goldfish. Which are too messy to go in such a small tank that is already overstocked. The circle starts again. Until you can get a larger tank, I really don't see any good tank mates for Sickfish.


I mean for the 55+ gallon!


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh I'm sorry. You'll have options there. Depending on how aggressive Sickfish is with food you could go with fancy goldfish like fantails (they tend to be fastest swimming fancies). You could also try rosy red minnows, but they might become food. Dojo loaches are another possibility. They're adorable and very entertaining, but should be kept with at least 2 other dojo loaches to avoid harassing the other fish. 

I would stay away from the really fancy varieties of goldfish like lionheads, ranchu, bubble eye, moor, and veiltail; they are slow-moving and often have special dietary needs. I would also stay away from the common varieties of goldfish as they need a 100 gal + tank. Other things to stay away from (that LFS often try to sell are plecos (will also need a huge tank), large cichlids (need too warm of temp and some are aggressive), and anything tropical. Koi like the temp to be down below 70F.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

So, in a 55 gallon, I can have sick fish and three loaches?
What species? Aren't they different sizes?


----------



## LyzzaRyzz (Dec 18, 2011)

Okay, so here are some pictures of my pond, and the setup i have for the 13.7 gal and the 10.5 gal...


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

LyzzaRyzz said:


> So, in a 55 gallon, I can have sick fish and three loaches?
> What species? Aren't they different sizes?


That sounds about right. Here is some information on dojo loaches (sometimes called weather loaches). 
Weather Loach (Misgurnus anguillicaudatus) — Loaches Online
Dojo Loach (Misgurnus anguillicaudatus) Profile

I hesitate to suggest smaller fish because they will most likely become food. It may seem rather bland, but the loaches are a blast to watch. They can easily be hand-fed and are renowned for their antics. They also come in different colors: wild type and melanistic. I even found one that was spotted; called him Bandit because he had a mask over his eyes. I've seen them sold at Petsmart, so they are easy to acquire. 

Loaches love hiding places. I had a little pagoda-type ornament that I got from Petsmart, and I would always find them sticking their heads out of the holes. I was soo sad when I had to give them up. They were harassing my slow-moving fancies. 

You are probably going to want to run two HOB filters on the tank. AquaClear is a good brand. Marineland biowheels are good and a little bit cheaper. I run both of those on my 55 gal goldfish tank.


----------

