# Can't get rid of these worms



## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

My female got what I'm 99% sure are internal parasites back in July. She refused to eat the Jungle pellets so I used the API cure. They went away for about a week and then she got another oen so I used the API cure again. This time they went away for several weeks, but appear to be back. Most of the time her poop is brown but these are white and curl at the end and it takes her a day or two to pass. So I am assuming they are an internal parasite? She is eating like normal and acting basically the same. What should I do to get rid of them once and for all? Also, I am a tad confused about the garlic soaking method to try and get her to eat. We have a big can of pre-crushed garlic in the fridge can I somehow use that? Please explain. Or are these things I am seeing just poop? I didn't think that poop was typically white nor did I think it curled/ took a day to pass. Up until July I had never seen her with anything coming out of her (had her a little over a year). Any help would be appriciated.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gallon
What temperature is your tank? 76-80
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? Alone

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 pellets, twice daily and one day off to fast 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Weekly changes with a vacum 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API stress conditioner 

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? Yes...I have a cheap test kit and they appear in the normal range

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? No besides these nasty worm looking things 
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? No change 

When did you start noticing the symptoms? The first time (early July) but then she went several weeks being fine and I noticed a new one last night 

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? No 

Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not since this

How old is your fish (approximately)? I got her in May of 2010


Thank you for help  We appriciate it


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

Frog had the same problem with parasites coming back. 3 treatments of Jungle fungus tabs didn't do the job and I had to switch her over to General Cure.

As far as the garlic goes, as long as it's just crushed/minced garlic with no additives, then you can just soak her food in some of the juice for a little bit. I think OFL told me that the garlic parasite treatment takes a few weeks of feeding straight garlic soaked foods for each meal. 

She's not acting lethargic, clamping, and eating just fine? It may be that she's just having a bit of egg poop. Females are confusing with identifying parasite poop and egg poop. I can't tell the difference.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah I have done 2 treatments of the API general cure with no luck. Her poop is currently whitish and kinda curls at the end and looks like it has a little tiny piece of almost like cotton (or something similar) to it. She is acting totally normal...eating anything I give her, swimming around and such. Could it be that she has just reached the age where she has eggs? She is my first female so I'm not sure.


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## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

It could be egg poops then if the rest of the poop looks regular. If it's stringy then I'd worry. If it is, see if soaking medicated pellets in garlic juice will get her to eat them since internal treatments for internal parasites are the quickest and most effective way. The garlic in itself is anti-parasitic, but it takes a while to do the job. It won't hurt to feed her garlic soaked food long term either I don't think. It boosts the immune system and most bettas like garlic.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Petunia, did your girl get kinda big and bloated-looking but only right around where her egg spot is? If she did, then she may have gotten eggy. She either dropped her eggs and ate them or reabsorbed them and now is passing them from her system. Try and remember how she pooped when she had parasites. Did she poop long strings all day when she had the parasites? Or did she poop normally but with white pieces in it?

Not long ago one of my girls got eggy and was like this. It took five days of almost non-stop pooping of long, eggy strings before she was better. Here is a link to the thread:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=76508&highlight=Bloated+Eggy

Do your girl's poops look anything like this?


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Currently she has one long string that has two peices of like off whitish looking poop connected by what looks like a peice of clear poop. The strand just keeps getting longer and she has had it since last night and it still carrying it around. She also looks like she has gotten skinnier on the top of her body (like around her head). She is acting totally normal though. Right now the long string just keeps getting longer and won't detach.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Petunia, I believe she may just be eggy. That's how my girl was when she was eggy. She just kept pooing and pooing and it never seemed to detach. To help her, you can put her in 1tsp of epsom salt per gallon, pre dissolve the salt first. 

I'm not sure but I think parasitic poop is often white, not off-white.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Could she still be eggy even without a male anywhere close to her? The poo is now still a whitish color but curves around at the bottom. She does look a little skinnier along the top of her body. Should I try for another round of API General Cure? She has had 2 rounds of it in the past month and a half so I don't want to hurt her by doing another round. But if it won't hurt I may try that. I'm not sure I will be able to get her to eat the anti parasite because it is a lot bigger than her normal food. She is still hungry and happy. I've been trying to get a good picture but can't. I have pictures from her first time around (attached) and it looks very much the same.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That looks like eggy poo to me because of the coloring. A female can definitely get eggy even without a male around. Some just are eggy all the time. If you want to try the anti-parasite pellets, you can crush them up into smaller pieces. Otherwise, I definitely recommend 1 tsp of epsom salt per gallon. Parasites or eggy, it will help either way. She's very cute, by the way.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you so much for your help. I will add some epsom salt to her tank tonight. With that do I need to be doing a small daily water change (like 25% each day) or should I just let it stay in there at the full effect until I do a normal tank cleaning on Sunday night? Hopefully she is just eggy. This makes me a lot less worried about her though.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It doesn't hurt to do 25% water changes each day but replacing the salt you take out can get dicy. One thing that could make it easier is if you happen to have a big 1 gallon jug (like the kind that spring water comes in at the grocery store). If you do, you can fill that up with dechlorinated water and mix in the 1 tsp of epsom salts. Then, when you need to do your water change, you can take out 1 gallon or thereabouts and just pour the premixed water in. However, if you're really busy, you'll probably be okay with just doing the regular water change on Sunday. 

I hope the epsom salt helps and if you have any more questions or concerns, don't hesitate to post.  Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Added epsom salt tonight and she dropped whatever she had (egg/worm) about an hour ago so lets hope it doesn't come back. Hopefully me adding the salt (after she dropped) will help whatever is going on.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I hope so. Keep her in the salt for maybe 5-14 days to make sure she gets everything out of her system. Good luck!


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

When I added the salt tonight I just took out the water and added new water with the salt mixed in (1 tsp per a gallon). In the future can I add all the salt to 1 gallon of water or does the ratio need to stay 1-1? Also, I'm assuming I just do normal water changes once a week but just add the salt when I do that (if I'm keeping her in it for 14 days).


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Uhm, for partial water changes, it's easiest to use the 1 gallon method because it's hard to figure out how much salt to add in when you're not sure how much exactly you took out. For full 100% water changes, you can add the salt to the tank (5 tsps) but it needs to dissolve before you add your girl back in. And yeah, you leave her in the salt and just do the normal water changes once a week or however often and redose the salt.

Sorry if I'm not being very clear, I'm having trouble understanding myself, lol.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

Update: It has been 7 days and she is still doing the same thing. The poops are really long (like the length of her body or longer) and she has them all the time. When I cleaned her tank tonight there were lots of what looked like her pellets that had halfway disolved but I am guessing it is poop because I take out any uneaten pellets and watch her eat. Tonight she ate one pellet and turned her nose up at the other one. Should I do a round of API general cure? Will it hurt her if she doesn't have a parasite? Any help is greatly appriciated


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## Thunderloon (Feb 6, 2011)

Stop the API stress conditioner and use aquarium salt and a very light dose of epsom. (like a pinch)

She's losing weight and that means either parasites or bad food. Too much weight loss will be as lethal as any bacteria. 

Stop using the current foods and get a new food supply, hikari fancy guppy is the most reliable I've used. Feed it using tweezers or a small spoon that you never touch. Walmart has little "Ball" canning jar looking salt shakers that work too - just cut a small section out of the paper seal under the cap then put it back in and shake out pellets one or two at a time. If you can't get that small pellet, crush and pre-soak pellets for 4 minutes in fresh bottled water.

OFL likes adding tannins to the water, in this case I agree, but don't wait till you have them: If you even consider parasites are the cause get PARASITE medication, fungus clear won't do anything. 

Metronidazole is a parasite med, Acriflavine is a parasite and fungus med. Furans are growth and reproduction inhibitors for bacteria and fungus and while they'll kill Ich - so will a camera's flash if its close enough - they aren't effective at much else.

Be careful with the parasite medication, a little less than the correct dose will be fine. _This isn't an egg issue_, its something wrong inside her digestion and her body is consuming itself to survive. On you or me we'd simply dissolve some fat but betta can't do that. The first thing her body will consume to stay alive IS her eggs.

Remember to siphon out or scrub bottom on every water change.
Use plastic wrap or towels to keep the temperature above 78°.
Keep her active after you've fed her, wiggly fingers, paper betta, etc.
Keep in mind she's starving and not to feed her too much too quick, it will kill her.


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

She currently has like 4 different types of food that I have bought because of being told different things so perhaps I can switch to one of those? I have the Hakari betta bits should I try those? She ate just fine tonight. I have been using the stress conditioner becuase it has all the things needed to make the water safe should I go back to a normal dechlor? She has a heater so no problem keeping the water at 80 and I siphon out anything at the bottom during my once a week water changes. Final question...the API general cure has Metronidazole and Praziquantel in it so I am guessing I should do another round of that? I have done 2 rounds in the past probably 2 2 1/2 months
Thank you


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## Petunia87 (Feb 1, 2011)

*Update*

Here we go again....So she was totally fine (nothing coming out of her for about a week) and then tonight it started again. I also have noticed these wierd looking greenish (tinted) ball looking things the last 2 times I have cleaned her tank. They look like betta food pellets but a little bit bigger and have a greenish tone to them. Any idea what those are? I know its not food because I make sure that nothing falls to the bottom and watch her eat. There are usually 3 or 4 of them (the past 2 times I have cleaned) Any suggestions?

Thanks


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

What have you been feeding her? Anything with a green tint? Bettas will poop out whatever color their food was. 

I noticed Thunderloon gave you some advice. Are you following it? Was is your current treatment?


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