# Puppy Peeing Problems :s



## Olympia

Alright, so we seem to have a lot of dog people on here, and I'm at a loss. My Dobie Mocha, she's around 14 weeks, enjoys peeing on things. Except it seems more behavioral than needing to pee, I think... 

At first, she used to always pee on her dog bed. Annoying, but it was easy enough to wash.. Then it was my bed..

Now last night she moved onto to the basement couch.. She had JUST gone outside and peed her little heart out, then we went back downstairs and she immediately jumped on the couch and peed! Like I did not even see it coming! I always wash the area really well so there's no scent left, also.. She WOULD be fully house trained if not for this, she knows to wait at the door to be let out and everything.. She just likes peeing everywhere she sleeps..

My dad said she's marking her territory, but she's just a puppy! I'm just at a loss at why she's doing it.. Opinions? Solutions?


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## sparkyjoe

Unfortunately I don't know of an easy answer. Puppies are wonderful, but each one presents its own challenges.

OK, so this may sound harsh but it's not meant to be... 

Barring instances of excitable/submissive peeing, which are a different matter, any dog who pees in the house is not housebroken, and is NOT to be trusted with freedom in the house unless you're watching with an eagle eye. Period. 

My suggestions are to use tethering, which is where you use a leash to attach the dog to you so you never give them the opportunity go out of your presence and pee. Also, using a crate or kennel is the best option for when you can't pay 100% attention, or when you are out of the house.

Also, you must make sure that you are removing all traces of the odor, so using an enzyme based product (ie Nature's Miracle) is essential.

Other's may have more or better ideas, but these are some tried and true methods.

Good luck!


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## Olympia

I use natures miracle actually. :3 
She did this right in front of me, she usually pees when I'm with her, anywhere that she sleeps.. We never leave her alone.
I could try the tethering but I feel like shed rip me in half LOL. we just started leash training.


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## sparkyjoe

Well, if she's doing it right in front of you, then you have the opportunity to correct her. No?


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## Olympia

I don't really know how to properly correct her. Everyone says different things.. Yesterday I just yelled no! At her, and took her off the couch and we went outside. She's doing this less and less so maybe shell stop after a few more times?


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## sparkyjoe

Yes, everyone says different things about "corrections", and you can't listen to everyone. 

I tend to listen to what others say, then make up my *own* mind based on what I'm comfortable with and what works for me.

The nice thing about tethering is that you already have them leashed so you can immediately a do a "leash pop", which is a quick, non hard/violent tug on the leash, and then get them outside very quickly. The key is timing. You have to correct right when she starts peeing, preferably BEFORE she actually starts.

"Yelling" isn't always helpful, but a firm "no" or whatever you use, can work, mainly to startle her into stopping. Try not to use her name when correcting, but I've found this almost impossible.

Also, don't forget to have a PARTY when she pees outside. And you have to have good timing then too; Don't wait til she's stopped to start praising.

I unknowingly trained my dog to the phrases "find your spot" and "hurry, go potty" by using those phrases every time I took him out. I also used the phrase "are you done?" which taught him we were going inside. It was fun to see the look on his face when I would ask him if he was done and he still had to go. He turned ALL BUSINESS and quickly started hunting for a place to do his bid'ness.

I'm not saying all dogs will learn this, but dogs do like consistency, so they *can* learn that when you use consistent words/phrases.

Yes, hopefully she will stop soon.


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## Olympia

Yea, I try not to use her name but sometimes it comes out. Our other dog knows to pee when we say go pee (in Polish) and she is catching on to this pretty quickly.. 

Do you train dogs? I have another question.. She is constantly biting our older dog really harshly when they play around, like my older dog has tons of scabs (you can feel them) from her, but the older dog isn't correcting her.. I kind of want her to stop biting the older dog so much, that's the way they play, the old dog knows not to bite hard but she doesn't..


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## sparkyjoe

Thanks, but nah, I don't professionally train, just my own dog, for fun.

Ugh, biting is a tough one. Sigh... in my PERSONAL opinion there are two ways to handle this issue. You can either let them be dogs and sort it out themselves. Or, as pack leader, you can step in to correct the pup by separating them and possibly even putting her in "time out."

Here's a link to some interesting information on Dobe puppy development, from what sounds like a reliable breeder... http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm


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## Aus

Sparkyjoe is 100% correct in saying -consistency- is the most important thing here. Pick two or three words or sounds and use -only- those. Your pup just isn't house trained yet. Some take time to get good at it, more if they are feeling anxious or confused (too many words used, rebukes she doesn't understand) about what is expected of them. 

First - have her vet checked to rule out bladder issues. A pup with a trick bladder won't be 'fixed' by anything but a vet. 

That ruled out, try praising her a LOT and maybe even giving her a small treat when she manages to pee outside. It's just as important that you are out there with her, as well, to teach her what's the -right- thing as well as the wrong thing to do.

How much attention is she getting for peeing outside, as opposed to when she pees inside? 

Dobies are eager to please, usually, and punishing a puppy more than 10 seconds after they do a wrong thing is totally wasted effort - and will only increase her anxiety (another cause of excessive house peeing), as she'll have no idea what's she's being yelled at for. Not that she should be being yelled at.

How often do you take her out to pee? Every two hours is not abnormal for a pup. Also, watch her carefully for 'signs' she is about to pee (sniffing about, circling, restlessness, seeking corners, whatever her thing is) and swiftly take her out.

Take her out every two hours regardless, and tell her she's a good dog, even if she doesn't pee. Don't play with her or talk to her, just let her sniff around and pee if she needs to. This should not be 'too much hard work' - she is just a pup and her needs have to be met. 

I used to use a sharp (NOT loud!) 'bah!" sound to show disapproval, I never used regular 'human' words that the dog might hear a lot in conversation. And then took my pups outside, immediately, even if they weren't 'finished' (lots of paper towelling kept handy!). 

Also, for pups that proved harder to train, I'd keep a little paper from the last pee and lay that on top of new paper for the scent, which is where I'd take the pup to pee instead of shoving them outside, which can be overwhelming for some. Every day I moved the paper closer to the door until it was outside, and from there 'outside' was the place to pee.

Patience and watchfulness, and your continual presence is necessary for her to learn what's right and wrong.

I'd suggest joining a local kennel club for puppy classes. Lots of knowledgeable people to talk to, as well as opportunity to help the pup learn important things - socialisation and basic manners, etc. This will help you gain her trust so training at home is easier, too.


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## Olympia

So she's in her dominating stage. Good to know, never was too keen on tug of war with dogs anyways. It makes me feel bad that the puppy is constantly dominating our older dog (biting, jumping, taking food/toys RIGHT from her mouth) and my poor dog just takes it all :/

We started the tethering and it is not going well! She hates not being able to follow the boxer around.. Guess she will have to learn I'm her leader, not the boxer


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## sparkyjoe

Yes, yes. What Sid said!!


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## Olympia

We take her our at least every 2 hours, and at a point I stopped going with her, but I started again now that she's "relapsed." I think I'll start giving her treats when she pees 
She is extremely pushy. I have a feeling she is going to be a challenge. 
We started tricks- sit, lay down, and spin around. Except now she gets them all confused. For example, at a sit, she sits and then lays down immediately. I think only focusing on one trick a session will stop this from happening? I give her treats as rewards.. Totally new to me because my other dog is NOT food motivated at all, it's funny to see a dog that loves food so much to me. xD


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## lorax84

The only thing that I would suggest is to make sure you are giving praise for good actions, not just correcting the bad ones. When I first got my pit she went out every 2 hours when I was home. When she went to the bathroom outside she got a treat, later I cut out the treats and just gave her physical affection when she finished peeing outside. Dogs only can associate praise (or correction) with their actions in the last minute tops, so you have to be quick with the praise or the dog doesn't associate the two actions. If your dog pees on the rug and you don't notice for 30 minutes there is really no point in correcting them.




Olympia said:


> She is extremely pushy. I have a feeling she is going to be a challenge.


You may want to read up on training method for dominant dogs. Their are many small things you can do to keep her from becoming to dominant and thus a problem. Things like letting the dog on the couch can have a huge impact on their behavior. Just a tip from a pitbull owner.


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## Aus

As for the biting - like with the peeing, it's SO much better to 'head her off at the pass' and get to her -before- the undesirable behaviour happens. Watch what she does when preparing herself to 'attack' the older dog and when you see her start to do whatever she does to prepare for it - step in - *before* she does a bad thing, and distract her. Give her plenty of chew toys. The older dog will eventually lose its patience - though I've seen older dogs (bitches, mostly) sustain some very nasty 'puppy cuts' before they lose tolerance. Best to avoid that altogether, its not nice for either dog and you face potential vet bills. Head her off at the pass, use the 'bah' word when you see her *thinking about* attacking the older dog, distract her to a positive experience and walk her a LOT. In my experience, 90% of 'naughty puppy syndrome' is not enough exercise, not enough avenues to relieve teething issues, anxiety over inconsistent owner behaviour and/or boredom.


> I think only focusing on one trick a session will stop this from happening?


Yup. She's only a baby, and trying to please you. Make it easy for her, at this stage. 

Oh yipes - I just read "14 weeks" - she is an infant! so make that training REALLY easy.  better she have fun learning one command like 'sit' for two weeks, than becoming confused about a pile of 'em.


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## Olympia

Alright. Yea, my moms' had it and she's not allowed on the couch upstairs, which is why we got her a bed.
I will do my best to keep her from biting Zara!
And we always have a ton of toys, especially stuffed animals, since she has that Dobie thing that she has to suck on something.. :3
She's having a really hard time being away from Zara right now.. she's tied to me. I think I'm gonna go chill on the floor with her.. I don't think it's healthy for her to be THIS attached to the other dog.


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## lorax84

Olympia said:


> Alright. Yea, my moms' had it and she's not allowed on the couch upstairs, which is why we got her a bed.
> I will do my best to keep her from biting Zara!
> And we always have a ton of toys, especially stuffed animals, since she has that Dobie thing that she has to suck on something.. :3
> *She's having a really hard time being away from Zara right now.. she's tied to me. I think I'm gonna go chill on the floor with her.. I don't think it's healthy for her to be THIS attached to the other dog.*


Don't lay on the floor with the dog, especially with a dominant puppy. Making it clear in her mind that the floor is for dogs and the chairs/couch/etc. ifs for people will make your job much easier over the next 6 mo.


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## FishyFishy89

Puppy or not, she is marking her territory.

When she pees in an inappropriate place firmly tell her "no" and show her the correct spot to pee.
And when your out of the house I suggest crating her in a crate that she only has enough room to walk in, turn around and lay down.

This is going to be a long and tedious process and it does require patience. I wish you best of luck with her.

Also, no matter how much you clean the spot, there is always a scent. I believe a dogs nose is 10 times strong than ours and they will clearly smell where they have pottyed.


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## Olympia

lorax84 said:


> Don't lay on the floor with the dog, especially with a dominant puppy. Making it clear in her mind that the floor is for dogs and the chairs/couch/etc. ifs for people will make your job much easier over the next 6 mo.


Oh poopy! Good to know! Either way she doesn't want to be around me. She keeps trying to escape


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> We take her our at least every 2 hours, and at a point I stopped going with her, but I started again now that she's "relapsed." I think I'll start giving her treats when she pees
> She is extremely pushy. I have a feeling she is going to be a challenge.
> We started tricks- sit, lay down, and spin around. Except now she gets them all confused. For example, at a sit, she sits and then lays down immediately. I think only focusing on one trick a session will stop this from happening? I give her treats as rewards.. Totally new to me because my other dog is NOT food motivated at all, it's funny to see a dog that loves food so much to me. xD


I suggest keeping treats to a min. Instead use lots of praise. Get really happy for her. Say "yes! Good girl! You went tinkle(or whatever word you use) outside! What a Good Girl!"

When I was training Emma I ran into the issue of having to correct Emma and repeat my commands when I didn't have a "cookie". She was just doing the trick for the cookie and wasn't doing them to please me. I hate repeating myself and when it comes to my dogs. I expect them to "sit" when I tell them to. Not 5 seconds later.


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## Olympia

Yes, I plan on weaning her off the treats pretty soon.. 

Tethering so far consists of high pitched whining and pulling me


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## revolutionrocknroll

lorax84 said:


> Don't lay on the floor with the dog, especially with a dominant puppy. Making it clear in her mind that the floor is for dogs and the chairs/couch/etc. ifs for people will make your job much easier over the next 6 mo.


I don't agree with this at all. The puppy's not going to understand or care about this. If you don't want her on furniture, never let her on furniture and praise/reward her when she lays or sits on the ground near you when you're sitting on the couch or something. My family has two couches and my dog's allowed on one and not the other and she knows that because we trained her to only go on one.
If she sees you on the ground, she's not going to think that she's dominant. The dominance theory is false. It's a desperate attempt of humans developed in the... I believe 40's to explain everything dogs do with one convenient explanation. It's outdated and if it weren't for Cesar Millan, people wouldn't be using it anymore. Dogs DON'T think like that.
If she's in the living room and you go in the living room, she's not going to think she's dominant over you just because you went to the same room she's in.


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## Aus

Sorry, I must add: your dog has been alive for a total of 98 days. At this stage, her bladder is an infant's, and so is her mind. Pups can continue needing guidance for housetraining until they are 6 months old.

This is a brilliant site, with a pile of good approaches to house training (the rest of the puppy articles are mostly very good, too and well worth looking at):

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_Housetraining.php

I can't recommend 'puppy school' highly enough, to help deal with any actual dominance issues.


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Yes, I plan on weaning her off the treats pretty soon..
> 
> Tethering so far consists of high pitched whining and pulling me


Discourage the whining and pulling. Give her a mental stimuli toy and give her praise for being quiet. Pet her, play with her. Find something that captures her attention.
I imagine she is a bit bored watching you play on the computer.

In my experience with dominant dogs, keep your head higher than theirs. When you lay on the floor with them, do not expose your stomach or open your legs.


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## FishyFishy89

I agree Aus. Training classes would benefit you and your puppy GREATLY.


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## Olympia

This is why dog training is so confusing.
I do believe there is such thing as a dog with a stronger will and one without. I'm more interested in training since she's a Dobie and I know these dogs can have a lot of problems if not trained and stimulated enough.
I am looking into puppy classes, more to socialize than to train.. she is very shy of new people and very energetic dogs. I know being shy is just as bad as being aggressive.. We do have one good canine "school" (I don't really trust the pet smart one as much..) And I think I shall see about doing it on weekends


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> This is why dog training is so confusing.
> I do believe there is such thing as a dog with a stronger will and one without. I'm more interested in training since she's a Dobie and I know these dogs can have a lot of problems if not trained and stimulated enough.
> I am looking into puppy classes, more to socialize than to train.. she is very shy of new people and very energetic dogs. I know being shy is just as bad as being aggressive.. We do have one good canine "school" (I don't really trust the pet smart one as much..) And I think I shall see about doing it on weekends


I've worked at PetsMart and their classes are pretty decent.
Really depends on the trainer tho.
Mine had 2 trainers, 1 didn't work 1 on 1 with her students. The other did. If money is an issue, I'd run to your nearest PetsMart and watch the classes. Watch how the trainers organize the "students" and teach how to teach commands. The most common way to teach commands and tricks is luring with treats.
I use this method in the very beginning of teaching commands and tricks. But once my dogs get the gist I start reducing the "lure".


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## Hanky

Puppy training is tough, it seems there is as many different ways to train a dog as there is breeds.lol. Remember she is still just a young pup and now is the time to instill your training, training classes will do you well, often us humans need as much training as our dogs. as for the peeing does it seem like she drinks excessive amounts of water? Or does it seems she pees alot more than she should be? You should rule out bladder problems first such as UTI. One trick I always try with any dogs I meet or raise is to get them to let me scratch their belly, they really love that and I believe it lets both of us know that I am in charge and I can be trusted.


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## Hanky

Almost forgot, Check with your vet about training classes, in my town there is actually a church that has a trainer come in twice a month for free classes, I saw the sign at my vets office.


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## FishyFishy89

Hanky said:


> Almost forgot, Check with your vet about training classes, in my town there is actually a church that has a trainer come in twice a month for free classes, I saw the sign at my vets office.


agreed
my vet has their own training classes as well. They even teach agility.


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## lorax84

revolutionrocknroll said:


> *I don't agree with this at all. The puppy's not going to understand or care about this. * If you don't want her on furniture, never let her on furniture and praise/reward her when she lays or sits on the ground near you when you're sitting on the couch or something. My family has two couches and my dog's allowed on one and not the other and she knows that because we trained her to only go on one.
> If she sees you on the ground, she's not going to think that she's dominant. The dominance theory is false. It's a desperate attempt of humans developed in the... I believe 40's to explain everything dogs do with one convenient explanation. It's outdated and if it weren't for Cesar Millan, people wouldn't be using it anymore. Dogs DON'T think like that.
> If she's in the living room and you go in the living room, she's not going to think she's dominant over you just because you went to the same room she's in.


I never claimed I was a professional dog trainer, but it worked for my dog who was a lot like OP's dog as a puppy. I actually let my dog on the couch now (she's 5) but when she was very young I did not. It solved A LOT of problems very quickly once I started doing it. I don't necessarily think dominance theory training is right for all dogs, but I know it worked for my dog. 

I'd be curious to know what type of dog you have though. Different types of dogs (working, water, guard/dominant) benefit greatly from training targeted to their breed. I wouldn't suggest dominance theory based training for a lab or a collie, but if you have a rottweiler, pit, Doberman, aikida, etc. it's irresponsible (IMO) not to at least look at dominance theory.


Edit: one more thing before I get out of this thread. I'm not sure if anyone said it, but if you want to be able to go to parks where other dogs are around start socializing her with other dogs now. Take it from someone who waited almost a year to start really socializing his dog. It's much easier when they are very little.


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## Olympia

Yes, like I said she's a Dobie, which is why I'm more concerned about all this training business in the first place. I really don't want to end up with a bad Dobie that makes her breed look bad..
And YES, I have been doing a lot of training research, but I think that's the problem.. There are so many techniques that I'm confused about which "style" to follow. I've always done the basic dominance training (I go through the door first, go down the stairs first, mostly because it is annoying if they speed past me!). I've been tempted to pick up a clicker and try that out, too 

Another debated topic- fear. We were walking and a train scared the heck out of her today.. I just stood there with her (we were a good way away from it) until it passed and kept going..
One side says NOT to comfort your dog, that is reinforces fear (the pack mentality training).
The other side says to comfort your dog when she feels fear (I was reading this on a site about fearful dogs).. I feel this question will start a whole new argument


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## Aus

JMO, but I think clickers are a bit silly. Like any other training 'tool' (and gadgetry for horses is included here), they can't take the place of a human hand or voice. And what if you lose the clicker! ohnoes! :shock:

At this age, pick the class that's all about socialising with people/other dogs and *having fun while you do so*. Your 98-day old pup is not going eat the mailman! :lol: The classes ought to be a LOT of fun for both of you, and pretty basic as well. If they aren't fun, they're not the right class.

I have had a VERY nervous bull terrier pup, scared of his own shadow. Staying calm and pretty much not over reacting to his panic attacks really helped. He also wasn't getting enough socialisation or street-excercise (shame on me) and he happened to be a pup who needed a lot of that, in small doses, to grow used to the world at large.

later on, he was a huge, banana-nosed goof that loved his walks and wasn't scared of anything (except our cat... who was mafioso..very scary, lol)


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## Hanky

Aus said:


> JMO, but I think clickers are a bit silly. Like any other training 'tool' (and gadgetry for horses is included here), they can't take the place of a human hand or voice. And what if you lose the clicker! ohnoes! :shock:
> 
> At this age, pick the class that's all about socialising with people/other dogs and *having fun while you do so*. Your 98-day old pup is not going eat the mailman! :lol: The classes ought to be a LOT of fun for both of you, and pretty basic as well. If they aren't fun, they're not the right class.


I am by no means a dog training expert, but I totally agree with This, all your dog needs to hear is your voice or you whistling at her to get her attention. Gadgets are a waste of money. Your pup is only 3 months old, she simply just doesnt know any better yet, getting her socialized to other dogs, humans and exspecially kids will be benefit everyone. I dont care what breed you have , a well trained dog can be trusted in any situation, Personaly I think Ceasar Milan and his tactics are :dunno:

On a funny note, the whole dominance training thing? How dominant do you think you look when your dog is out in the yard watching YOU pick up HIS dodo.:-D


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## FishyFishy89

With Emma I haven't used a "dominance" training methods. She knows I am alpha just by my body language, voice tones, and simple things that are done all the time. Like either walk beside me or behind me. I walk through the doorway 1st, not my dog. My bed, my couch, my chair, my lap....my rules. I also made sure she is FULLY aware that I mean business when I mean business and I have also given her "release" cues that tell her it is play time.
I believe it is important and very useful to teach your dog "release" cues. Example, you just walked through the gate of an off leash doggie park. (i seen this scene all the time) Dog is lunging at the end of the lead and the owners hold onto the dog's collar as the dog is "freaking out" and very excited. Owners are either fighting the dog to sit still or frantically unbuckling the leash. Once that leash is off the dog takes off without a ponder to their owners.

Here is what happens with me and Emma (and my past dogs). 
Walk through the gates at my side. If Emma removes from my "heel" position we walk back out of the gates. Once back at my side we move forward.
Once in the gates, Emma automatically sits.(manly because she goes through this routine every Friday)
I remove the leash and Emma waits for my "go play" cue.

I will NOT fight with my dog at the doggie park. If I have to fight her like that, she won't be visiting the doggie park until I am able to get her under control. In my observance, owners who have to struggle with their dogs at the gate struggle to get their dogs to listen to them at the park off leash.


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## Olympia

By dominance that is what I meant.. the doors thing.. I do this because it is a hazard to have have an 80lb dog running by me down the stairs or jumping on people.. Walking properly is proving a challenge, but we will get through it..

A lot of these things are stuff I taught my boxer to do.. Waiting for a command before running off, etc. Just that this little dog seems a lot more willful, which is why I thought maybe other tactics would work better 

We used to go to the dog park but stopped after our dog got sick from other dogs there.. not worth the risk IMO. Our dog parks receive little funding and our not well monitored for those things.


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> By dominance that is what I meant.. the doors thing.. I do this because it is a hazard to have have an 80lb dog running by me down the stairs or jumping on people.. Walking properly is proving a challenge, but we will get through it..
> 
> A lot of these things are stuff I taught my boxer to do.. Waiting for a command before running off, etc. Just that this little dog seems a lot more willful, which is why I thought maybe other tactics would work better
> 
> We used to go to the dog park but stopped after our dog got sick from other dogs there.. not worth the risk IMO. Our dog parks receive little funding and our not well monitored for those things.


I only take Emma to Fleet Peeples Park. I personally know the owner of the park and there is also a group of Friends of Fleet Peeples http://www.ffpp.org/ who help sponsor the park. All the attendees enforce the rules. If an aggressive dog is found they immediately start politely (some rudely) telling the owner to leave. And if the owner doesn't leave the police is called.

As far as the heel command and the door issue. Just keep at it. Take advantage of having a big dog. When she goes to pass you in the house, snag her collar, firmly tell her "no" and put her behind you.
I'd set aside 15 mins a day practicing this. Stay constistant. Don't change how fast, or how you react to her.


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## revolutionrocknroll

Dogs don't go through doors first because they think they're dominant. They're simply excited to see what's on the other side.
Dominance theory is wrong and not accepted as a viable method in the professional world of dog behavior and training. 
I recommend "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson if you really want to know how a dog thinks.


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## Olympia

Either way it's hazardous for them to do so and I'd rather not have them doing that.. 

Curious.. If dogs don't have dominance than why on earth do they hump each other? :O are they just dirty little monsters?


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## revolutionrocknroll

That is a dominance display, but that's not what dominance theory is.
Dominance theory is the belief that wolves live in packs that have a linear structure of hierarchy (alphas, betas, omegas) and that carries over to dogs, but that's wrong.
1) Wolves don't live in packs organized like that. That was based on a study of captive wolves in the 1940s and has since been disproven. Wolf packs have a breeding pair and puppies. THey don't fight for dominance. When the puppies are old enough they simply leave and start their own packs.
2) Some dogs are more dominant than others, and some may have a self perception of being more dominant than their owners, but in many instances this is not the case. Dogs don't understand humans and they don't understand what humans want from them- many times when they misbehave they are just being a dog. Severe behavior problems may be from fear or aggression, but that doesn't mean that the dog is trying to dominate you, it's just from early upbringing by its mother, littermates, breeder, and owner in the first 4 months or so of its life.

"The whole dominances thing is, once again, a case of leaping to a conclusion before ruling out more obvious explanations. Dogs chew furniture because what else could furniture possibly be for? They are disobedient because they have no idea what the command means, are undermotivated to comply or something else has won the behavioral gambit at that moment in time, like a fleeing squirrel. Rank is not on their minds." Jean Donaldson

Dogs are dogs. If one bites, it's not necessarily being dominant. It might have fear issues, it might be telling you something in dog language like "leave me alone," or it might just simply bite because that's what dogs do. Dogs are motivated by rewards. If a dog doesn't come when its called, that's because it's chasing a squirrel, eating poop, meeting another dog, etc. Not because it thinks that it's dominant but because it's having fun. Dogs simply don't think like that. Instead of bullying dogs around owners should concentrate on teaching them what they DO want. If a dog barks at the UPS truck, teach it to come when called instead of yelling at it.
For training I recommend "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor. I also really like "It's Me or the Dog." Victoria Stilwell is a great example of a modern trainer who uses positive reinforcement which is the accepted method in dog training today.


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## Olympia

Okay, let me see if I get this... so when my female boxer dog humped me that one time, she WAS dominating me? xD
I get what you're saying.. I mean I never thought any of your examples were a dog acting dominant.. 

About the wolves, it can't just be a breeding pack and puppies, on documentaries it always shows several adult wolves hunting D:

I watched "It's me or the dog" and that is why I wanted to get a clicker. xD


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## revolutionrocknroll

That's because the puppies stay until they are a year or two old, at which point they're close to adult size. I've found libraries and google to be useful tools... they actually have scientific literature online. This is what I study in college and I happen to be an aspie, and animal behavior is one of my "interests" so I spend more time then I probably should studying it on my own.

Another passage from "The Culture Clash"
"Empathy 101:

Imagine you live on a planet where the dominant species is far more intellectually sophisticated than human beings but often keeps humans as companion animals. They are called the Gorns. They communicate with each other via a complex combination of telepathy, eye movements, and high pitched squeaks, all completely unintelligible and unlearnable by humans, whose brains are prepared for verbal language acquisition only. What humans sometimes learn is the meaning of individual sounds by relpeated assoication with things of relevance to them. THe Gorns and humans bond strongly, but there are many Gorn rules which humans must try to assimilate with limited information and usually high stakes.
You are one of the lucky humans who lives with the Gorns in their dwelling. Many other humans are chained to small cabanas in the yard. THey have becomes so socially starved that they cannot control their emotions when a Gorn goes near them. Because of this behavior, the Gorns agree that they could never be House Humans. They are too excitable.
The dwelling you share with your Gorn Family is filled with numerous water-filled porcelain bowls, complete with flushers. Every time you try to urinate in one, though, any nearby Gorn attacks you. You learn to only use the toilet when there are no Gorns present. Sometimes they come home and stuff your head down the toilet for no apparent reason. You hate this and start sucking up to the Gorns when they come home to try and stave this off, but they view this as increasing evidence of your guilt of some unknown act.
You are also punished for watching videos, reading certain books, talking to other human beings, eating pizza or cheesecake, writing letters. These are all considered behavior problems by the Gorns. To avoid going crazy, once again you wait until they are not around to try doing anything you wish to do. While they are around, you sit quietly, staring straight ahead. Because they witness this good behavior you are so obviously capable of, the attribute to "spite" the video watching and other transgressions which occur when you are alone. Obviously you resent being left alone, they figure. You are walked several times a day and left crossword puzzle books to do (you have never used them because you hate crosswords; the Gorns think you're ignoring them out of revenge).
Worst of all, you like them. They are, after all, often nice to you. But when you smile at them, they punish you, likewise for shaking hands. If you apologize, they punish you again. You have not seen another human since you were a small child. When you see one on the street you are curious, excited, and sometimes afraid. You really don't know how to act. So, the Gorn you live with keeps you away from other humans. Your social skills never develop.
Finally, you are brought to "training" school. A large part of the training consists of having your air briefly cut off by a metal chain around your neck. They are sure you understand every squeak and telepathic communication they make because you sometimes seem to get it right. You are guessing and hate the training. You feel pretty stressed out a lot of the time. ONe day, you see a Gorn approaching with the training collar in hand. You have PMS, a sore neck, and you just don't feel up to the baffling coercion about to ensue. You tell them in your sternest voice to please leave you alone and go away. The Gorns are shocked by this unprovoked aggressive behavior. They thought you had a good temperament.
They put you in one of their vehicles and take you for a drive. You watch the attractive planetary landscape going by and wonder where you are going. The vehicle stops, and you are led into a building filled with the smell of human sweat and excrement. Humans are everywhere in small cages. Some are nervous, some depressed, most watch the goings on from their prisons. Your Gorns, with whom you have lived with your entire life, hand you over to strangers who drag you to a small room. You are terrified and yell for your Gorn family to help you. They turn and walk out the door of the building. You are held down and given a lethal injection. It is, after all, the humane way to do it."


I don't know what to do when your dog humps you, but she has to respect you on her own. You can't force her to because dogs don't understand that. Submissive dogs submit on their own, dogs don't roll each other onto their back and pin them down, or fight until one is dominant. Well adjusted dogs respect each other and figure out their rankings on their own using dog language. It's not usually aggressive. I've never been humped by any dogs besides an intact male poodle, but that's enough information right there to explain why he was acting aggressively.

Edit: I'm sorry if I come off as a jerk, but this is stuff that I study at school and there are many myths and fallacies surrounding animal behavior and training. I don't know everything, and when I don't know something, I'll admit it, but when I do post something, I'm pretty sure that I'm right. You don't have to believe me. In fact, it's healthy to question everything that you're told, but please do research into dog behavior and training before deciding which method you want to use.


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## revolutionrocknroll

I believe that the first link is excellent because it has links to a ton of other articles as well.
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
This is very interesting and also mentions a study about free ranging dog packs.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-dominance-is-the-concept-the-alpha-dog-valid
I also just searched for why dogs hump each other and I found a number of explanations besides dominance: Sexual, boredom, attention seeking, anxiety, excitement, compulsive disorders, and medical problems.
http://www.petstyle.com/dogs/training/dog-mounting-–-dog-humping
http://dogtrainer.quickanddirtytips.com/humping-mounting.aspx
http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/15/Mounting-and-Masturbation-.aspx

"Dogs do not understand rank because they do not relate to the experiences of others. They are self aware but not other aware. They can not understand "you lose, I win." All they relate to is the present (this feels good) and the past (this was reinforcing and felt good before)." From my third link.


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## kelben

waaaay too much information. Dobermans are very intelligent dogs and will take over a household very quickly if allowed to. Peeing on furniture and biting older dogs is dominance period. You have to step in and be the boss or your dog will.


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## revolutionrocknroll

Well, my viewpoints clearly conflict with the average human's, but ask any professional behaviorist and they will give you a similar answer to what I gave you. Dominance theory would have died out years ago if it weren't for Cesar Millan. 
It's not my dog, raise it however you want to, but to maximize happiness and decrease stress I believe that dominant and aggressive dog handling methods should not be used at all.


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## Olympia

See, this is my main point of confusion.. People that work with all these powerful breeds say not to allow this dominance stuff. I see first hand in the news what happens to dogs that get no training.. 
I think that any sort of training, to make the dog listen to you, the dog is acknowledging that you are the boss who should be listened to.. 
I know this kinda runs along the dominance theory, but I do think that if you don't train your dog, it will start to run rampant.. and I know dobermanns are very capable of outsmarting their owners


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## kelben

you are right!! They are a powerful, working animal and the key words are powerful and animal. You don't have to be mean when training, but you DO have to set the rules. They are not humans and they don't follow human rules they follow animal rules and in every animal community or pack there is a dominant leader. I have had dobes and rotties and german shepherds and they all had great manners and slept in my bed with me, they ate off my plate sometimes, but also, there was no doubt in their minds that I was the one who made the rules and supplied the food. They were happy and healthy animals who lived long contented lives.


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## FishyFishy89

revolutionrocknroll said:


> Dogs don't go through doors first because they think they're dominant. They're simply excited to see what's on the other side.
> Dominance theory is wrong and not accepted as a viable method in the professional world of dog behavior and training.
> I recommend "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson if you really want to know how a dog thinks.


Depends on the dog
Emma accidentally goes through the door 1st because she wants to keep her eyes on my face.
Or if it was my doberman, he would be testing my alpha position.
The so called "dominance theory" is NOT completely wrong. It works best for certain dogs. I use it with all my dogs because I am a dog trainer as well as a house cleaner. 
And dog owners NEED to be taught how they can use their body language and voice tone to gain control over their dogs without resorting to getting frustrated and yelling at the animal. Dog owners also NEED to learn how dogs communicate and act with each other. When they learn that they will understand why a dog chews on socks or furniture and other negative behaviors.


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## FishyFishy89

kelben said:


> you are right!! They are a powerful, working animal and the key words are powerful and animal. You don't have to be mean when training, but you DO have to set the rules. They are not humans and they don't follow human rules they follow animal rules and in every animal community or pack there is a dominant leader. I have had dobes and rotties and german shepherds and they all had great manners and slept in my bed with me, they ate off my plate sometimes, but also, there was no doubt in their minds that I was the one who made the rules and supplied the food. They were happy and healthy animals who lived long contented lives.


My dominance training isn't "being mean" to my animals.
My dominance training is teaching my animals that I am not going to let them get away with anything. And that there is business time and there is play time. And they know what time is what.

Not saying you said my training methods are mean, was just using your quote to add my comment.


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## FishyFishy89

kelben said:


> waaaay too much information. Dobermans are very intelligent dogs and will take over a household very quickly if allowed to. Peeing on furniture and biting older dogs is dominance period. You have to step in and be the boss or your dog will.


Totally agree with this.
My dobe used to nip the heels of my golden when we got him.


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> See, this is my main point of confusion.. People that work with all these powerful breeds say not to allow this dominance stuff. I see first hand in the news what happens to dogs that get no training..
> I think that any sort of training, to make the dog listen to you, the dog is acknowledging that you are the boss who should be listened to..
> I know this kinda runs along the dominance theory, but I do think that if you don't train your dog, it will start to run rampant.. and I know dobermanns are very capable of outsmarting their owners


Use the dominance right now with your dobe. Right now your dobe thinks there is no alpha established and is deciding to take "control of the pack".
Put you foot down and tell her "no, I am alpha here. I make the decisions of the pack. I feed you. I help you get warm when your cold. Without me you would be a dead dog"
Sounds harsh, but that is basically how it is in wild packs. A lone dog is a dead dog.
It is great that you've taken the time to learn about the breed and now you have a chance to experience it 1st hand and will spread your good experience and learning experience with this breed to someone else when they need it.


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## FishyFishy89

_revolutionrocknroll, the "dominance theory" doesn't work for all dogs. In fact, there is not 1 training method that works for all dogs. Even the oldie "lure with a treat" doesn't work for all dogs. 
Every dog needs a different training method. And clearly the OPs dobe is displaying CLEAR signs to being a dominant dog and the OP need to use dominance training to establish to her dobe a pack leader. If she does not establish herself as a pack leader she will have HUGE problems controlling her dobe.
Now if she had a dog like my Emma. Who clearly isn't dominate and clearly just wants to follow you around, I would recommend a different training method that I use for non dominate dogs while at the same time teaching her ways to give off small signs to her dog that she is alpha.
So wither you like it or not, the OPs dog needs to be trained using the alpha method.
_


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## Olympia

Alrighty.. so when I have her tethered to me, and I'm walking and she decides she doesn't want to go where I'm going and goes into donkey mode, I just keep on going where I'm going right?


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Alrighty.. so when I have her tethered to me, and I'm walking and she decides she doesn't want to go where I'm going and goes into donkey mode, I just keep on going where I'm going right?


Yup
She is again testing your alpha position.
When she stops or gets "stubborn". Firmly tell her "no" and begin to walk her in the direction YOU want to go. 
Keep in the back of your mind, dobermans can suffer from wobbler syndrome. Is your dobe showing signs of leash pulling?


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## Olympia

Not sure what that means.. I thought all puppies pull? We just started leash training so she does pull the leash...


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Not sure what that means.. I thought all puppies pull? We just started leash training so she does pull the leash...


Some puppies pull and some dont. I got lucky with my golden, she didnt pull. She just weaved back n forth xD
Best training collar I've used to stop pulling
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11325950

Pincher collar does work great but I only recommend those who will work side by side with their training. Only light contact is needed.

Another training tool that works good is:
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11372093
But this is a product that works on a small selective dogs.

I've experienced 95% of my clients improve in walking with the gentle leader.


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## revolutionrocknroll

Dogs don't think like that... being stubborn isn't being dominant.


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## FishyFishy89

revolutionrocknroll said:


> Dogs don't think like that... being stubborn isn't being dominant.


How do you know dogs don't think like that?
Did you somehow figure out their brain waves?
Their actions are the same of their supposed descendants, the wolves, so I'm pretty certain they think the same.

Have you trained a doberman who acts the same as the OP using training methods besides the "dominance theory"?
I have. I went through SO MANY training methods with my doberman. I went from the ye oldie method of "luring with a treat" to methods involving striking my dog. My last resort method was using methods teaching the dog that I am alpha by simple means of body language and voice tones. The OPs dog is not getting hurt. I'm not sure why you are SSSOOO against this method. It is best for her dog.


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## revolutionrocknroll

It's been disproven that wolf packs have alphas, betas, omegas, etc. I've already explained this. It's a breeding pair with their puppies. They don't fight for dominance. And dogs aren't wolves anyways.
I'm against it because if you do the research, IT'S NOT TRUE. This is science. Things in science are disproven all the time. This is what I'm studying at college.


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## FishyFishy89

revolutionrocknroll said:


> It's been disproven that wolf packs have alphas, betas, omegas, etc. I've already explained this. It's a breeding pair with their puppies. They don't fight for dominance. And dogs aren't wolves anyways.


There is always a leader in packs.
How do you think the WHOLE pack decides to suddenly turn 1 direction? An alpha decides the decision.


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## revolutionrocknroll

It's not an alpha. The puppies listen to the parents like any offspring would. And then when they want to start their own packs, they leave, they don't fight their parents. But this is irrelevant because dogs aren't wolves.

"Calling a wolf an alpha is usually no more appropriate than referring to a human parent or a doe deer as an alpha. Any parent is dominant to its young offspring, so "alpha" adds no information. Why not refer to an alpha female as the female parent, the breeding female, the matriarch, or simply the mother? Such a designation emphasizes not the animal's dominant status, which is trivial information, but its role as pack progenitor, which is critical information. The one use we may still want to reserve for "alpha" is in the relatively few large wolf packs comprised of multiple litters. ... In such cases the older breeders are probably dominant to the younger breeders and perhaps can more appropriately be called the alphas. ... The point here is not so much the terminology but what the terminology falsely implies: a rigid, force-based dominance hierarchy."
Wolf biologist L. David Mech


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## FishyFishy89

revolutionrocknroll said:


> It's not an alpha. The puppies listen to the parents like any offspring would. And then when they want to start their own packs, they leave, they don't fight their parents. But this is irrelevant because dogs aren't wolves.


so you admit puppies listen to their parents...
the parents establish with the puppies that they are a higher pack status. That is what makes them listen to their parents.

Besides the fact, your argument is invalid. It is obvious that the OP's dog is showing signs of "not listening to her parent" and needs to be shown that "her parent" (the OP) has a higher pack status than her.

The OP's dog is not getting abused nor is she getting neglected. This method has been proven time and time again. BTW Ceaser Millian (or however you spell his darn name) FORCES the dogs into submission. So his methods are COMPLETELY different from what I teach.
Using body language and tone of voice and perfectly fine in teaching the dog who is alpha.

I'm done going back and forth with you. There is no one set training method or every single dog. I will not continue to argue with you. As I said before, different training methods work with different dogs. That is part of the reason why there are so many training methods. What works for one dog may not work for another.

OP, if you need advice on training your dobe you can PM me. I have loads of experience and stories I'd be willing to tell you from training my own dominant doberman.


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## revolutionrocknroll

Fine, but did you even READ any of the many links and sources I posted to back up my position? You've given me nothing. You say experience, but if you do the research, it says that you're wrong. And how do you know that you're experience is what you perceived it to be? You're not able to accurately and knowingly tell how dogs think any more than I am. I've done research and am continuously studying this, and if my methods were proven wrong, I'd accept it and move on. But they are in fact what are used by the top trainers and behaviorists today.


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## FishyFishy89

revolutionrocknroll said:


> Fine, but did you even READ any of the many links and sources I posted to back up my position? You've given me nothing. You say experience, but if you do the research, it says that you're wrong. And how do you know that you're experience is what you perceived it to be? You're not able to accurately and knowingly tell how dogs think any more than I am. I've done research and am continuously studying this, and if my methods were proven wrong, I'd accept it and move on. But they are in fact what are used by the top trainers and behaviorists today.


Every single training method is used by "top" trainers and behaviorists today.
End of conversation.


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## kelben

when dogs don't have puppies, one dog is the boss. He will fight with others for food and females. In our home a dominant personality will push its opinions and behaviour until it is : 1. is persuaded to change its mind; 2. gets what it wants. It isn't rocket science. Scientists also say that dogs don't reason.... they are wrong about that too. 
Obviously, this OP is really inexperienced and should be enrolling in obedience classes. This is much too important a problem to be solved by talking on the computer. Dobermans are smarter than most people I have met lol, they really NEED positive attention, or it will end up in a really bad place.


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## FishyFishy89

kelben said:


> when dogs don't have puppies, one dog is the boss. He will fight with others for food and females. In our home a dominant personality will push its opinions and behaviour until it is : 1. is persuaded to change its mind; 2. gets what it wants. It isn't rocket science. Scientists also say that dogs don't reason.... they are wrong about that too.
> Obviously, this OP is really inexperienced and should be enrolling in obedience classes. This is much too important a problem to be solved by talking on the computer. Dobermans are smarter than most people I have met lol, they really NEED positive attention, or it will end up in a really bad place.


agreed

And I am sorry if I acted closed minded earlier. It just really annoys the heck outta me someone basically says "no your wrong. don't do that". When it has been proven that the animal isn't getting harmed and the method actually benefits the animal AND the handler.

And I'm sorry if I made you feel overwhelmed, OP by all this back n forth.


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## Olympia

I was just confused about this whole peeing thing and her biting the other dog honestly.. xD And then I kind of wanted to hear both sides of this argument..


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## revolutionrocknroll

Well I'm sorry too. I have Asperger's and this is something that I am intensely interested in. I don't know whether or not that's a good reason to have debated, but I think it is, and it's hard for me to control that impulse. I give up. Do things your way. And I'm not trying to insult anyone... I'm just trying to prove my point and this is a field that's constantly changing and there is a lot of information out there and some of it is good and some of it is bad. What I suggest for anyone interested in anything is to always study topics that you are interested in. But really, if you do have any links to anything about behavior, please share. I am very interested in animal behavior- it's a passion of mine.


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## dramaqueen

I'm glad to see you guys have resolved your disagreement. I wish everyone would handle a disagreement like you two.


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## Olympia

Haha yes!
We are doing good btw. She still bites our dog like crazy, our old doggie just rolls over for her.. 
She's terrified of everyone, I've been getting her out in public a lot but it's going really slow. She'll sniff people at least, but other dogs scare her so much! 
We're checking out a free pet smart orientation puppy class this saturday hopefully.


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## JBosley

My pooch is horrified by other dogs (which is hilarious because we have 4 other dogs...), I started taking him to puppy socialization classes  They are helping.

I wouldn't recommend doing training at Petsmart... I've heard some horror stories and also seen some bad training techniques used at Petsmart.


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## Olympia

Yea.. I kinda just want to go so she can hopefully see some more puppies in her life. Maybe friendlier, non giant ones that won't terrify her 
Would it be good to take her somewhere with loads of people? Like that class, downtown, or would it overwhelm her and make the fear worse? :/


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## JBosley

Olympia said:


> Yea.. I kinda just want to go so she can hopefully see some more puppies in her life. Maybe friendlier, non giant ones that won't terrify her
> Would it be good to take her somewhere with loads of people? Like that class, downtown, or would it overwhelm her and make the fear worse? :/


I would recommend calling a trainer  Maybe getting her into a socialization class with knowledgeable trainers in a controlled environment. 

I would also suggest having people come over, and when they walk in the door to have dog cookies waiting for them to give to her. To show that people bring good stuff! Worked wonders on my human aggressive boy


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## Olympia

I would get a trainer if I could afford it. I'm 17 and currently jobless, my parets don't want to "waste money" on that stuff  
I've been reading as much as I can online :/
I'll try that cookie stuff tho!


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## JBosley

Olympia said:


> I would get a trainer if I could afford it. I'm 17 and currently jobless, my parets don't want to "waste money" on that stuff
> I've been reading as much as I can online :/
> I'll try that cookie stuff tho!


Then I would try and get a friend with a friendly dog to come over  You just dont want to over whelm her or have her have a bad experience!


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## Olympia

Mm my best friend has a crazy boxer pup and she was terrified. I need to find some old dogs.


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## registereduser

Where is the breeder input in all of this? If she came from a good reputable breeder they should be helping you out here! If she came from a backyard breeder then you're SOL in that regard.

Also, I agree with whoever mentioned a vet visit may be in order to rule out UTI.

Best wishes!


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## Olympia

I dno where my dad got her- not registered. Her parents were live stock guardians for sheep and horses o-o


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Mm my best friend has a crazy boxer pup and she was terrified. I need to find some old dogs.


if i lived close to you and my old chill-ax golden was still alive i totally wouldn't mind helping you


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## Olympia

My neighbor has an old weenie dog (by old I mean 6.. and his face is all grey.. he aged a lot), but he's recovering from some sort of liver problem so I don't really want to introduce them.


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## Hanky

Olympia said:


> Haha yes!
> We are doing good btw. She still bites our dog like crazy, our old doggie just rolls over for her..
> She's terrified of everyone, I've been getting her out in public a lot but it's going really slow. She'll sniff people at least, but other dogs scare her so much!
> We're checking out a free pet smart orientation puppy class this saturday hopefully.


Well this has been one of the most exciting posts I've followed in a while, haha, all the tension and stuff.

She still having those peeing issues? Have you pretty much ruled out bladder issues? I only ask again about this because we have a Sheltie which is prone to UTI's and when she gets them she has a totol different temperment almost like she knows shes sick and is mean about it.
sounds like your getting her out and about which is good, she needs to get acclimated with the outside world and people. You might want to just take her to Petsmart when you can to get used to the people and dogs. It can be a good place for that without overwhelming her with alot of dogs at once.
Just wondering to about her biting, does she do it in a nasty way or is she just tring to play with the other dog?


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## Olympia

Oh, never mentioned it but she hasn't done it since I started the topic. We werent even going to the vet until Friday lol.
There were two bulldogs at pet smart. I think she thought their snorty breathing was growling, they were really overpowering too, that poor girl was getting dragged around by them lol.
When she bites it's playing, but it's really rough. Poor Zara gets so pushed around by her, bit, food taken right out of her mouth. Zara doesn't want to stand up for herself!


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Oh, never mentioned it but she hasn't done it since I started the topic. We werent even going to the vet until Friday lol.
> There were two bulldogs at pet smart. I think she thought their snorty breathing was growling, they were really overpowering too, that poor girl was getting dragged around by them lol.
> When she bites it's playing, but it's really rough. Poor Zara gets so pushed around by her, bit, food taken right out of her mouth. Zara doesn't want to stand up for herself!


I'd feed Zara in either another room or with both dogs on the opposite sides of the room. You really don't want to get inbetween 2 dogs fighting. However, I always get between them. My dogs are my babies and they need to learn to get along. Their both getting the same food, there is no reason to take one's food.


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## Olympia

The thing is they don't fight, Zara just takes it.
Like if we are feeding treats, Mocha just shoves her snout in Zara's mouth and takes it, and Zara has no reaction. Mocha also steals all of Zara's toys 
I do however feed them in separate areas.


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> The thing is they don't fight, Zara just takes it.
> Like if we are feeding treats, Mocha just shoves her snout in Zara's mouth and takes it, and Zara has no reaction. Mocha also steals all of Zara's toys
> I do however feed them in separate areas.


Ah, alright. I just wanted to make sure your dominate pup isn't being aggressive with your "already established" pup.


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## Olympia

Yea, I don't think so yet.
Also, she isn't allowed on the couch, but she always runs up jumps on it and jumps off as soon as I say something! 
Anyways she's being a psychopath again so it's time to go out to run around! haha!


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Yea, I don't think so yet.
> Also, she isn't allowed on the couch, but she always runs up jumps on it and jumps off as soon as I say something!
> Anyways she's being a psychopath again so it's time to go out to run around! haha!


You could try putting tin foil on your couches
worked wonders on my pug. I used it to teach her the couches, chairs and beds aren't there for her own use and that she HAS TO be invited onto them. If she wants to be comfy she has her own bed and 2 blankets.


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## Hanky

Well at least the peeing stopped, thats a step forward. At least shes not being aggressive to Zara, but it would help if she would stick up for herself and teach the pup. make sure you talk to your vet about any issues with her they can give better advice than any of us here, good luck.


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## FishyFishy89

Got a Petco near you?
I saw this on Petco's FB


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## Olympia

Nope, not in my town.. 
Her leash skills have improved a ton, she only pulls if something scares her now. She's getting really attached to me, I'm surprised. I knew they were loyal, but she followed me to the bathroom and layed down beside me xD while the other dog leaves me when I'm sleeping in, she stays With me till I wake up


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## FishyFishy89

Olympia said:


> Nope, not in my town..
> Her leash skills have improved a ton, she only pulls if something scares her now. She's getting really attached to me, I'm surprised. I knew they were loyal, but she followed me to the bathroom and layed down beside me xD while the other dog leaves me when I'm sleeping in, she stays With me till I wake up


Awh
Emma demma does the same thing.
She is nosey with everyone else while they are in the bathroom, but with me she lies down and rests her head on my foot.
I am glad she is improving with you. Remember to keep patience all the time


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