# Treatment resistant fin rot- now trying Kanaplex



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Hi I am wondering if there might be something I am missing with what to do about my blue veiltail Huckleberry. His fins have looked bad since May, but he has not responded to treatment and I had chalked it up to tailbiting... but today his dorsal looks melted.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.6 normally but in 1 gal hospital tank as of today
What temperature is your tank? 74-82 depending on the ambient temp. 
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes but sometimes it goes down to 74 degrees. My heater is clearly not working right so I just ordered a new hyodor theo.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 nerite snails were added one week ago to eat diatoms. One will eventually move on to another tank or they will get rotated around.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Thera-A, Betta Bio Gold, Frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? twice a week with a vacuum
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50-75%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
pH: around 6.8-7
Hardness: Hard
Alkalinity: ?

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His fins rotted/shredded while I was on vacation for 10 days in May, and he has never looked right since then. The fins were all shredded and darker at the ends only. But today I see that his dorsal fin is stuck together in a fin melt way.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He is a less aggressive eater, but that might be because I feed him more than I used to
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Fins were shredded at the end of May. Yesterday I noticed an imperfection on his head. Hard to say what it is, but it doesn't look just right. Maybe he scraped it somehow or it is the beginning of a fungus?Today his dorsal fin looks melty or stuck together. 
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? I have already treated him with 10 days of aquarium salt, a week of betta revive, and a week of bettafix. The fins never grew back. I figured he must be biting them. Today I was concerned about the dorsal fin looking melty so I moved him to the hospital tank and dosed it with Kanaplex.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? See above. Fin rot or Fin biting started mid-May.
How old is your fish (approximately)? I bought him at the beginning of May.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Here are some pictures taken today.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Any ideas? Also I am wondering how to do the water change. It says to add another dose of Kanaplex after 2 days... but I want to do a water change tomorrow so should I do a 100% water change and then double dose the Kanaplex? Or water change and single dose.


----------



## freeflow246 (Jul 24, 2011)

Wellll I ain't from the reference team but might as well give it a shot. Looks like fin melt or serious fin rot. Either way the treatment is about the same. Kanaplex is good.

When doing a water change, replace any meds you take out. So day one is the first dose of Kanaplex. This means I do a 100% water change and put in the first dose. Second day, no dose. But I want to do a water change, so I do a 100% and put ONE dose in. This merely replaces the meds I took out. Third day, a dose and a water change. 100%, then TWO doses in. This replaces the meds I took out and also adds in the next dose.

Make sure your filter causes some water disturbance. I believe meds need/do best with some sort of aeration. Just some surface disturbance is enough I think.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

KanaPlex is good for fin rot but I prefer to use Triple Sulfa for fin melt, it's one of the only things I've ever actually seen work on Triple Sulfa along with Potassium permanganate baths but T. Sulfa will be what you want to use first.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Thank you both. After I complete the Kanaplex I will try Triple Sulfa or PP if he still has not healed.

I am really at a loss for why he has not recovered. I am wondering if he needs a change of environment? A 5 or 10 gallon tank? However, I just bought his tank in May and spent $50 on it, and changing tanks be a shot in the dark and also require me to start the cycle over.:-(


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Most likely the bacteria aren't in the spectrum that KanaPlex treats, I know it's broad spectrum but I believe it targets mostly at the gram negative--although don't quote me on that. Most aquatic illnesses are caused by gram negative bacteria. So the use of a different antibiotic could be the ticket he needs.

Fin melt doesn't come from something that he does or doesn't like, it's a bacteria and if he's a fin nipper or ripped his fin on something, the smallest of holes, the bacteria can gain a foothold and just whatever it wants to do until the right antibiotic comes along to battle it.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

I am posting updated pics from today (day 5 of Kanaplex). The white spot on his head is gone. Ruffles from dorsal are gone and now he just has the shark fin. Does the dorsal look melted? or just rotted? Other fins don't seem melted.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

more pics


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It looks melted to me. It could have started off as rot and then progressed to fin melt. I don't know if they are caused by different bacteria, though I assume that they are.


----------



## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

Since we are talking about Kanaplex, can anyone tell me if Furan is the same. I orderd Kanaplex from Amazon and the sent API Furan (2? or some number... i am at work and don't have it to look at). I started reading the back of the box and was nearly apoplectic. It warns it is a carcinogen etc. to use gloves or wash hands. With my health history, I want nothing around that is going to possiblely cause cancer. So, my question are the two the same, or is Kanaplex something else entirely and is it safer than this furan is?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

They are completely separate antibiotics. It's the same antibiotics used for humans so I doubt it will hurt anything unless misused.

KanaPlex is Kanamycin

Furan-2 is Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Nitrofurazone IS nasty stuff. It's an old school topical horse medicine but it kills new healthy cells along with the bacteria, and it is carcinogenic so it's out of fashion.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

huckleberry77 said:


> Nitrofurazone IS nasty stuff. It's an old school topical horse medicine but it kills new healthy cells along with the bacteria, and it is carcinogenic so it's out of fashion.


Ah, didn't know that! Good to know then!

Sounds like using UV sterilizers; it might take down the bad bacteria but it also kills the good stuff too.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Hydor Theo 25 watt heater just arrived!! Stupid Fluval Edge preset heater is going back to Petco. Huckleberry's regular tank is finally back up to 79 degrees!  I only went through about 5 different heaters in 3 months with this tank!


----------



## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

huckleberry77 said:


> Nitrofurazone IS nasty stuff. It's an old school topical horse medicine but it kills new healthy cells along with the bacteria, and it is carcinogenic so it's out of fashion.


Thanks Lil and Huck,
I appreciate the input.
Why in heaven's name would they send me that stuff instead? (Probably to get it off their shelves!) Even better question, why would API still push this stuff.
Well, i certainly am not going to use it. Glad I haven't opened it yet. I've got a CVS right across the street from. Going to take it in to the pharmacy and have them get rid of it.
Crazy thing is, if it's that nasty you'd think it would very quickly kill fish. not help them!


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Update: Well it has been several weeks of treatment in the 1 gal hospital tank. He got Kanaplex, then Lifeguard, Then Triple Sulfa, Then Kanaplex plus Jungle Fungus Clear... His fins still look pretty much the same shape... no regrowth, but the black edges are gone. His behavior is very healthy. I don't know what else to do with him... so I am putting him back in his regular tank and letting him be.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No black edging is good!! That's what you want. The med's won't magically repair his fins just yet, that comes with good husbandry, the meds will just take care of the rot is all. So if he has no more black on him then you can do whatever is easier for you, putting him in the old tank or keep him in the QT tank. He'll still need frequent water changes to ensure that his water is healthy, or a heavily planted tank, good food and a higher temperature to encourage fin growth quicker.


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Thanks Lil. His tank is well planted, cycled, and consistently warm now that I replaced his heater. The plants and snail limit the meds I can give in his regular tank. I guess I will just do twice a week water changes and see how he does. He may just be a chronic fin biter?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, so if you put him in his regular tank, don't medicate him. If the black has yet to fully go away, keep him out and do another round of meds on him to clear it up.

It doesn't look like he bit his fins at all but they just became infected. He might have bit it initially on a temper tantrum to open the fin for infection and the infection just latched on and it went from there, or he could have ripped it or something. It can be very easy for fin rot to take hold.


----------



## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

You could try doing daily fish dips in the 1g container. Methylene blue and/or aquarium salt dips are safe and sometimes effective.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

+1 to CJ! I love doing baths for my fish, they generally respond very well to them!


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

logisticsguy said:


> You could try doing daily fish dips in the 1g container. Methylene blue and/or aquarium salt dips are safe and sometimes effective.


Thanks for the suggestion. I will keep that in mind if I want to try another treatment.

One additional thought... there is a strand of fin coming off his dorsal "shark fin" now. I initially thought it was fin melt... but it seems to be getting longer, and the fin is not getting shorter... so could it be new growth coming in as a strand?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I doubt it's new growth, new growth is clear and starts at the fin wound and works it's way out. Can you get a picture?


----------



## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> I doubt it's new growth, new growth is clear and starts at the fin wound and works it's way out. Can you get a picture?


Well it's been a few weeks and it is definitely new growth. Not totally normal looking, but I have heard that sometimes the fins can grow back weird? I will try to get a picture later. His dorsal fin is definitely a lot longer now. Other fins may have grown too.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Absolutely, my HM in my avatar went through many fin changes through the years of him biting occasionally or getting ripped. At first he had kinked fins and then through biting they straightened out, then he had some rays fuse together the next time. So yeah, lots can happen to the fins as they age. Technically fish never stop growing through their lives, as do their fins, so they'll continuously change throughout their lives.


----------

