# Cycling new tank, now have algae mess, HELP!



## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

OK, here's the deal. I have a new tank, and I'm a new fish-mom. I started cycling it on July 7th, using the shrimp-method that I read about here. When I thought it was done, I took out the shrimp and did a 99% water change, but discovered that it wasn't "done," so following advice here I put in another shrimp to keep the cycle going...then read that I shouldn't use shrimp. The shrimp is now "stringy" and gross, and suddenly everything is covered in green algae. I don't know what to do to get rid of it, because if I take everything out and scrub it (although I don't know if that will work), I'll lose the beneficial bacteria I've started (at least I think so).

Here's the particulars:

Housing 
What size is your tank? 5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 79-81 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? yes, Tetra Whisper 10i
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no, stays at consistent temps, even at night
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none - doing "fishless" cycling

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? yes, with API Master Test Kit and Tetra Easy Strips for Hardness and Alkalinity 
If so, what are the following parameters?

*Ammonia:* showing at maximum or above, 8.0 ppm
*Nitrite:* 0.25
*Nitrate*: 5.0
*pH:* 7.8
*Hardness:* 0, very soft
*Alkalinity:* 180 

I'm getting really frustrated and just don't know what to do. I'd love some advice from experienced people here. I really want to get my guy out of his tiny tank and into his "big boy" tank, but it's been over a month and things are getting worse instead of better. Help!!!


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

What do you have in the tank besides the shrimp ? Like gravel or any decorations ? 
The BB will be on your filter but some will stick to gravel and decorations. You could clean your tank but leave the filter alone or just rinse it off with the tank water just swipe it around to get the gross stuff off then put it back. Put some clean water in and start testing again and see what you come up with. But please wait for other advice okay as I am new to tank cycling myself.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

I tried to attach a picture, but don't know if I did it right. I have gravel and silk plants and a little cottage decoration.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

pretty! I don't see any algae?


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

This picture was taken before the algae outbreak.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

ooooh. Have you thought about getting a nerite snail? Mine cleaned the tank free of algae in 2 weeks!


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm not sure what that is. Is it just a little snail that will live in the tank? Will my betta eventually live with it? How do I keep the algae from coming back?

Thanks so much for your help.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Here's what it looks like right now. (disgusting)


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I would do a big water change like 55 percent and add fresh conditioned water and soak the silk plants and cottage in some clean conditioned water in a bowl or something if you they are really bad and smelly with junk on them. You can use a gravel vac to clean the gravel with if you have one if not they do not cost that much like 7 or 8 dollars at a pet shop or Walmart should have them too. Just stir the gravel around the siphone the dirty water out. Wait a couple of days and start testing again. If the water still looks bad do another water change and use the gravel vac again, they are such time saver I would not give up mine for gold...lol 

Love your tank its very nice looking and love the silk flowers and the cottage is adorable, your Betta is going to be happy in there when you get him in. Good luck! I would use fish food like the flakes for the cycle and not use shrimp anymore or buy some ammonia nonscented to use.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Is the water cloudy? If so, I don't think it's just algae. It might be what is called a bacteria bloom. Also, what is that in the top right corner? It's not in the first pic.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-aquarium/how-long-does-bacterial-bloom-usually-71518/


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Most of the bacteria you want will be in the filter cartridge. There will also be some on the walls, decor and substrate. Since most is in the filter, I don't think too much damage will be done to the cycle if you clean off the walls. 

I have never done the fishless cycle, always the fish in cycle.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Persusmom - If I wash the plants, will that interrupt my tank cycling?

RegisteredUser - That "thing" in the corner is a nylon stocking with raw shrimp inside. The shaded area under it is sort of a stringy mass eminating from the stocking. I've been wondering if I should leave it, or take it out. From what I think I understand, I need it to produce ammonia to get to the nitrite stage to get to the nitrate stage to finally be "cycled." On the other hand, it's gross. And, to answer your other question, YES, the water is extremely cloudy.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I think you should PM this thread to OldFishLady and see what she says, looks awful!:-(


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

sorry to be such a pain....but how do I PM this thread?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Rosebud said:


> sorry to be such a pain....but how do I PM this thread?


here is her profile,

http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=17234

under her avatar, top left it says SEND MESSAGE. Click on that and you can send her a private message. Send her the address of this thread which is 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=110776

and just ask her what she thinks. You may have to start over but I hope not!


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## zzrguy (Jul 3, 2012)

Take out the shrimp stuff let the tank run a few days or so.



How long do you have the light on?

That is a lot of light for fake plants add some CO2 {API co2 booster it kills the algae} and will not kill the BB. Put 2 or 3 live shrimp in there let it run. They will clean the tank and the Betta might like the friends when he move in.



Clean everything in hot water except the filter and don't change more than 50%. Changing 100% could have re-cycled the tank. So let keep cycling.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Thank you! I've sent her the thread.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

ZZRGUY, thanks for the information. I have the light on about 10 hours a day. Is that too much?


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## zzrguy (Jul 3, 2012)

Rosebud said:


> ZZRGUY, thanks for the information. I have the light on about 10 hours a day. Is that too much?


 With out live plants in it the algae is basking in it try turn it on only when your home..


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

How many days has it been cycling, what is your finial stocking plan and what are the current numbers for-ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

If the ammonia is 8ppm as in your first post.....remove the shrimp and make a 50-60% water change and vacuum in all areas you can reach without moving anything, wipe the viewing walls only-leave the non-viewing walls and filter dirty for now.
Test about an hour after the water change and post those number.


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Who told you to use shrimp? Those thing stink to high heaven when they rot. Gross. lol. It's like someone trolled you with that method. 

I would just test for nitrates and if you find them in your tank your done. Do a complete water change to remove the bacterial bloom, usually not the type of bacteria that's good for fish, remove the shrimp as well. Put some anacharis to absorb your excess nitrates, ammonia and nitrites. Let the tank sit for a couple of days and see if you still get bacteria bloom. Leave your light off so the algae will die, move tank away from any windows till your algae problems are gone. 

If you get another bacterial bloom, you can do another water change or just wait for things to settle down. If you do no not get another bacterial bloom toss in a guppy or two to stabilize your tank and then after a week test your water and if everything checks out you can add your Betta. Remove guppies if you like after that.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

goldfishyman

The reason that I used the shrimp in the first place was because this forum has a Sticky: A Beginner's Guide to the Freshwater Aquarium Cycle at the top. It's been posted since March of 2010. I assumed this was a good post for a beginner to use, so I followed the "Shrimp Method" instructions.

If this is, indeed, the wrong way to go about cycling a new tank, then that sticky post needs to be changed or removed. Otherwise beginners like me will continue to believe that we should follow it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The sticky isn't wrong-it gives you an option of different methods to cycle. The rotting shrimp will help produce the food source for the beneficial bacteria to establish the nitrogen cycle.

This sticky might be more helpful to at least help you understand the bacteria and/or process involved.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks for the information link. Wish it had been posted 2 weeks earlier when I started my cycling stuff. Oh well, better late than never, right? I understand what I'm aiming for better now.

I did water tests this morning, per your earlier post. I had:

ammonia - 8.0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - somewhere between 0 and 5.0 colors
pH - 7.6

I took out the (disgusting) shrimp, vacuumed where I could, and did about a 60% water change. The water itself was green and extremely foul-smelling. yuck! I wiped down the front of the tank, to the water line during the water change.

In another 30 minutes or so I can take the new readings and post them.

In answer to your other questions, it's been cycling since July 7th; I will only have my one male Betta in it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would water change until I got the ammonia down to about 1-2ppm over the next few days along with every other day vacuum of the substrate in all area you can reach without moving anything...

I would get on a 6-8 hour per day photoperiod since you don't have plants or even turn the lights off all together for now...until you add the Betta...this should limit the energy for the algae too....

Your doing just fine.....it will come together before you know it...all most there already.....


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I am doing a fish in cycle myself and like you starting to see some nitrate but of course cant let my other levels get high. Since your flowers and cottage might have some BB on them I would hold off on cleaning them right now or just soak them in some warm conditioned water for awhile.


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## Relic (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm betting on to much light. That's an awful lot of light for such a small tank.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Looks like we started cycling at around the same time. I have been trying to cycle my 5 gallon with fish in for 3 months but lost all my BB due to a power outage of 28 hours. So had to start over on July 8th, I might have had some BB on the gravel and decorations but not enough to show up on the test. This morning I had .25 ammonia .25 nitrite and the nitrate looked close to .5 nitrate. Did a 20 percent water change this afternoon and getting ready to test again tonight. Its slow going but worth it when this cycle is complete I will do a happy dance for sure..lol


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## zzrguy (Jul 3, 2012)

You could try API quick start
http://www.apifishcare.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=642

Or Tetra SafeStart
http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/Detail.aspx?id=4224


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Wow, thanks for posting the photos. This is why I eat my shrimp instead of using it to cycle a tank like this. 

Definitely leave your lights OFF. 

Your tank looked great in the beginning. I noticed you put it on a book shelf or something. I hope you have a bottle of disinfectant near the tank to wipe down the areas within the radius. 

Curious to see how this plays out.

I don't think that quickstart/safestart is an option now. 

Do what OFL recommends & post the daily water test results here. 

Don't forget, leave the lights off.


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## zzrguy (Jul 3, 2012)

I add some quick start after water changes just to help the BB come back..


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Did not know it was a sticky. That's not something I would bother to read because I'm not a beginner. For me of all possible options shrimp would be on the very bottom. I know from experience when they die and rot they just stink worse than anything else that could die in a fresh water tank. Mostly Its from having to dump trash as a kid, my mom would toss shrimp shells in the trash after cleaning them up for cooking. By the next day it would be so rank i would have to hold my breath or risk puking. 

I just want to make sure you know that I wasn't trying to make fun of you. I was just kinda looking at your pic and saw that big stocking full of shrimp and started thinking OMG pew wee. The way shrimp rot I think just 1 piece would have got the job done, but you had a whole bag of them. Seeing how you said this was one method recommended to you and seeing the pic of the shrimp in stocking, it just felt like someone was messing with you. 

Ok so I went and looked up the instruction that was posted. It said to use one medium sized shrimp per 20 to 30 gallons. Your tank is 5 gallons. I would think 1 shrimp about 1 inch long would have got the job done. I just took another look at your picture and the stocking looks like you have a lot of shrimp in it or a few jumbo size shrimp that are around 4 inches long. Perhaps if they want to keep this method in the sticky they should mention how important it is to use this only on bigger tank and use the recommended size shrimp. Also they should not say small medium large as sizes. Some people eat monster sized shrimp and their perspective would be skewed. I mean look at this link UnderwaterTimes.com | Colombian Biologist Claims World's Largest Shrimp: Almost 16 Inches . The shrimp is 16 inches long. Using this as a baseline, a medium shrimp would be 8 inches.  So I can see how you might have gotten confused. 

Normally I do not recommend using carbon in a fish tank but for the mess you have you might want to use some in your filter to get rid of the smell. After the tank smells good toss the carbon out and never put it in your tank again unless your medicating and finished the dosing cycle.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

goldfishyman - Don't worry, I didn't think you were laughing at me at all. Actually the stocking does look like I have half a dozen large shrimp in it, but it was actually 2 that were very small. The jelly-like stuff that it produced as it rotted makes it seem like a whole lot more. You're right about the smell. I was carrying buckets of water from the living room to the kitchen as I was doing water changes last night, and gagged the whole way. This seems like the right situation to use the word PUTRID.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

MSG - Yes, this is a bookcase tank. I'm not sure that I understand your suggestion of having disinfectant spray available. For what....the bookcase? Could you clarify for me? Thanks.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

I did another water change (50%) early this morning, with the ammonia value at 4.0ppm.

I just did another water change (60%) now, (no vacuuming on either) and the results are:

ammonia - between .50 and 1.0 ppm
nitrite - about .50 ppm
nitrate - about 20 ppm

Is my ammonia now too low to keep the tank cycling?

The light has been left off.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What are the reading today..

With the fishless method once you have nitrite spike you want to reduce the ammonia by half as much anyway.....

I would leave it and if you still have nitrite today-use a tiny bit of crushed fish food instead of the shrimp to feed the BB.....turn the filter on as high as you can

Test every day and once you have 0ppm ammonia and nitrite with nitrate reading of at least 10ppm you are cycled-Make a 50% water change with vacuum in all places you can reach without moving anything and acclimate the Betta to the tank...

Monitor prams daily and make water changes as needed with any spikes along with your regular weekly 50% with vacuum to maintain it.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

RoseB, I recommended the bleach solution because you said the water was grotesque. I would assume some of that funky water would drip all over the area where it's located. I would spray a sanitizing solution onto a towel and wipe the area down if you want to get rid of that smell. 

That's the only thing I don't like about using OSB type shelves/particleboard to hold tanks. Those things are like sponges when water isn't wiped up. It soaks up funky odors too. 

If I was ever to go the shrimp method, I would probably cook the shrimp first, eat it and then use the EMPTY shells as the cycling media. 

I don't like to waste food. hehe.... 

It's nice to see what it looks like to cycle with WHOLE shrimp. That's something I don't think I'll ever attempt after seeing those pictures.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

The readings today are:

ammonia - 1.0
nitrites - .50
nitrates - 40

I'll put in some fish food and see what tomorrow brings.


By the way, I left the liquid in the test tubes last night (accidentally), but now the tubes are stained a bit. Is there a safe way to fix this? I didn't want to put anything in them, like bleach or ???, without an OK.





MSG - thanks for the info. You're right, that water was atrocious. I had been taking great care to quickly wipe up any spots on the outside of the tank or on the bookcase. Now that several water changes have been done, the smell is gone. Tomorrow I'm going to do the disinfectant wipe anyway...just in case.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Try vinegar rinse on the test tubes and see if that will get the stains out.

IME the vinegar works better for the tannin stains, but not sure on the reagent stains..Just rinse really good and air dry....

I wouldn't add anything else and see if it will settle for you in the next few days. Monitor prams daily


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Readings for today are the same as yesterday:

ammonia 1.0
nitrites .50
nitrates 40

Will the green tinge to everything in my tank, decoration, marbles, etc., go away on it's own? If I clean them, will that kill off BB?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would give it more time.....might even toss a towel over the tank or do a black out for a couple of days to decrease the light even more to the algae.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Readings for today are the same as the last two days...

ammonia 1.0
nitrites .50
nitrates 40

Should they be changing?

Great tip on using vinegar for cleaning out the test tubes. Worked great!

Tank is now covered by a blanket, as you suggested.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Its now the waiting game....


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Are my readings going the right way?

On 8/21 I had:
Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrites - 1.0
Nitrates - 40

Today (8/24) I had:
Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrites - 1.0
Nitrates - 20

I thought the ammonia would be going down, not up.


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## JackisLost (Feb 26, 2011)

one of my tanks is exactly like yours, aquaone bowfront. is your light a 10k light? coralife usually tends to saltwater and a freshwater would benefit more from a 6.5k light. besides the color temp of your light, i think your light is way too strong also and so close to the tank. maybe try to distance it and hang the light higher? since you don't have any plants, maybe get a weaker light source so you don't feed algae.


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Jack, what brand of light do you suggest? I got this one at the recommendation of my LFS (not a PetCo, PetSmart, etc.) so I thought it was the right one. If I get a dimmer one, and decide to graduate to live plants, will I need the 10K? Or, will it still be too bright?


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

You probably have high phosphates.

If your really in a hurry to get things under control. You can try this, but your tank will eventually settle down over time. Turn off your filter. Drain all the water out of the tank, make sure to vacuum the gravel as best you can. You should tilt the tank so that one end pools all the water left and try and get that out. Get a bottle of hydrogen peroxide and put it in a spray bottle. Spray down everything that looks green. Let it sit till you see the algae turn brown and then refill tank halfway and swish the water around to loosen the algae. Siphon again then refill the tank. Turn on filter and see if this works. I would wait a bit to see if the results stick. Also keep the lights off.

You might also check your filter media and give them a light rinse in dechlorinated water. I do not use the filter media that comes with most filters unless its a bio wheel. I replace all media with custom media and a sponge.

Good luck


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks for the info FishyMan. How do I know if I have high phosphates? I've been leaving the light off, and have the tank covered in a thick towel, and it seems like the algea are dying. I'd hate to essentially start over, but I'm still really confused by my readings. Today they are:

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrites - .50
Nitrates - 20

Shouldn't the nitrites and nitrates be going up, and the ammonia going down?


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Rosebud said:


> Thanks for the info FishyMan. How do I know if I have high phosphates? I've been leaving the light off, and have the tank covered in a thick towel, and it seems like the algea are dying. I'd hate to essentially start over, but I'm still really confused by my readings. Today they are:
> 
> Ammonia - 4.0
> Nitrites - .50
> ...


Well this is just a guess, but perhaps you have ammonium phosphate in your tank. It is used as a fertilizer and added to make plastic fire retardant. Perhaps you have something plastic that shouldn't be in your tank. It would explain the rise of ammonia and phosphates causing your algae out break and weird numbers. If the ammonium phosphate were to break down it would release ammonia and phosphate into your tank. 

Other factors to consider. You should keep your PH at around 7.3 so that your bacteria for ammonia and nitrite will be in the proper zone for cycling. too low and you inhibit one bacteria while causing another to thrive. To high of a ph will inhibit the other bacteria and cause the other to thrive. This situation explains why some times nitrates show up and ammonia begins to spike because the bacteria converting nitrite to nitrate is doing well and the bacteria converting ammonia to nitrite is going dormant. The other scenario is ammonia goes down, Nitrites shoot up and you as well has having a high nitrate level. 

I would take out any plastic ornaments in your tank. Raise your water temps to maybe 90*, this will increase the bacterias metabolism and reproduction. 

If you want you can buy an API phosphate test kit to verify if it is indeed phosphates. 

OH btw I just thought about this, if you live in farm country, phosphates would be naturally high in your tap water from the fertilizers used to water crops. The run off gets into the water system. Fertilizers are mainly ammonium phosphate. With the amount of time that has passed your tank should have already cycled. I would definitely consider testing all parameters of your water source. If you find phosphates I would considered buying an RO unit. Yuck..


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## Rosebud (Jun 30, 2012)

The only things I have in the tank are those purchased at my LFS (ceramic ornament, silk flowers, and resin (or whatever) cottage). The only plastic is on the internal filter. I haven't added anything else except for a thermometer and one of those suction-cupped leaves.

My pH level stays steady at 7.8. I haven't used any product to change it.

I live in Los Angeles...definitely not farmland. 

I'll have to get a phosphate testing kit.

Thanks for the advice.


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## JackisLost (Feb 26, 2011)

Rosebud said:


> Jack, what brand of light do you suggest? I got this one at the recommendation of my LFS (not a PetCo, PetSmart, etc.) so I thought it was the right one. If I get a dimmer one, and decide to graduate to live plants, will I need the 10K? Or, will it still be too bright?


10k's color is a little more for salt water, if you don't want to spend more money the 10k will grow plants just fine (I have 10k's for my 14gallon and was able to grow dwarf hairgrass). When the bulb burns out and it's time to replace, look for 6500 replacements. Your fixture should be more than enough power, in other words, your fixture is pretty darn good  just need the right color of light


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## zzrguy (Jul 3, 2012)

Try doseing with a Co2 addive for a week you will kill the algae. Throw in a moss ball and a live plant to clean up the water. When you geta cycle going throw in 3 to 5 shrimp they will clean the tank amd are a lite bio load and most you get at the lfs are pretty hardy. Dont get a bamboo or african/asian filter feeder they are not cleaners.


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