# Some Newbie question.



## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

good evening,morning,afternoon
what do i know , Betta fish Has some color layer it consist by :
- The lowest layer is the cellophane layer then the second lowest is red layer , then third layer is the black layer, then forth layer is the iridescent layer, then the metallic which is in the the black dragon betta and etc
What do i want to ask is : 
1.
let's say the super red, the fenotype is showing the red skin, is each layer taking role on this fenotype?
what do the black layer, iridescent,metallic do.
2.
does each betta only have one color layer???????
3. 
how can unmarbled betta have the patterned color???????????. the example is black samurai
4.
what is exactly the dominant,recessive,and codominant,uncomplete dominant
5.
what if betta have 2 same dominant gene pair for one trait
THx ALOT FOR YOUR ANSWER , I hOPe this forum can help everybody especially me .


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Just look at it like this;
(Answers #2.) Betta skin/scales are made up of 4 layers. If all 4 layers are filled equally, betta should look like wild type pattern - because each layer plays a slightly different role in coloration.
**** Forget about the 4th layer - yellow. Because it has little affect o color outcome, it will only confuse you. Research that layer once you understand the 3 layers.

You can't really "erase" a layer. You can only reduce it significantly or bring out mutation (modifier) genes in that layer. 

1. Lets take super red or extended red for example. The top layer. (iridescent) is replaced by modifiers they call spread iridocyte. This gene equally distributes color throughout the whole body - in this case, speards red genes.

Black layer is replaced by a different modifier - blond which hides black genes and makes red look lighter/brighter.

Red layer is basically filled with the dominance of red genes.

3. Marbles genes enables mutations - makes koi patterns (for example) possible. It changes the way color genes combine and enables "isolated blocks" of color (there are numerous mutaion possibilities). 

Once a mutation occurs, the fish will pass it on to the offspring. If you keep breeding for the same mutation, it will be fixed or seem to become "dominant". 

So if you breed out the mutating factor, the fish will still pass on those mutated traits.

I don't understand question #5. Please rephrase.


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## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> Just look at it like this;
> (Answers #2.) Betta skin/scales are made up of 4 layers. If all 4 layers are filled equally, betta should look like wild type pattern - because each layer plays a slightly different role in coloration.
> **** Forget about the 4th layer - yellow. Because it has little affect o color outcome, it will only confuse you. Research that layer once you understand the 3 layers.
> 
> ...


Thx for the answer, 3# answer didnot answer it, you are telling marbled. Let say that your fish have 2 different recessive gene for the tailtype , what Will be expressed????????


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## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> Just look at it like this;
> (Answers #2.) Betta skin/scales are made up of 4 layers. If all 4 layers are filled equally, betta should look like wild type pattern - because each layer plays a slightly different role in coloration.
> **** Forget about the 4th layer - yellow. Because it has little affect o color outcome, it will only confuse you. Research that layer once you understand the 3 layers.
> 
> ...


Thx for the answer, 3# answer didnot answer anything for me, im asking unmarbled betta


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bettaind said:


> Thx for the answer, 3# answer didnot answer anything for me, im asking unmarbled betta


??? 
Ok then. What do you mean by "unmarbled". I assumed you meant cleaning out marble genes.

Recessive gene for tail type? With all genes one will always be more dominant over the other. Then there is also genetic background factor - if its background carried the said recessive genes, the genes will become phenotype.

Dominant - recessive in never 100% in the betta world. Let's say you crossed a long fin to a short fin. You will always create more long fins but also have some in between and short fins (according to the punnet square equation the result should be 100% long fins). The long fins will become short fin carriers and vise versa short fins will be long fin carriers. What you produce in F2 depends on what genetic code you choose. If you chose the short fins, you will produce more short fins (recessive) than long fins (dominant). 

The genes for fin length differs to the genes for fin spread or web reduction. So if you really want to break it up, the genetic coding is complicated. IMO, you should keep it simple and not worry too much. For now, ust learn the tendencies of each trait. When you have more experience and better understanding, you can slowly study genetics in a more scientific standpoint.


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## obelmac (Oct 3, 2020)

Bettaind said:


> good evening,morning,afternoon
> what do i know , Betta fish Has some color layer it consist by :
> - The lowest layer is the cellophane layer then the second lowest is red layer , then third layer is the black layer, then forth layer is the iridescent layer, then the metallic which is in the the black dragon betta and etc
> What do i want to ask is :
> ...


Hi This is very Informative post as a New Fishing Blogger


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## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> ???
> Ok then. What do you mean by "unmarbled". I assumed you meant cleaning out marble genes.
> 
> Recessive gene for tail type? With all genes one will always be more dominant over the other. Then there is also genetic background factor - if its background carried the said recessive genes, the genes will become phenotype.
> ...


You know, black samurai (dragon scale but it's not covering the whole body) is actually a black dragon Betta , need to know the black dragon has no marble gene, why can he have pattern like marble gene


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## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

Samurai pattern for the dragon scale


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

For the sake of understanding, could you please explain your question in Indo. I will translate it so other members can understand


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## Bettaind (Sep 26, 2020)

indjo said:


> For the sake of understanding, could you please explain your question in Indo. I will translate it so other members can understand


Liat ikan fancy diatas, warna ada kuning,putih sedikit metallic, dan biru, nah , kenapa yang warna biru nggak berkombinasi dengan warna yang lain dan membentuk warna yang baru, harusnya kan berkombinasi, contohnya warna biru jika dicampur dengan merah kan menghasilkan warna ungu


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bettaind said:


> View attachment 1022305
> 
> 
> Liat ikan fancy diatas, warna ada kuning,putih sedikit metallic, dan biru, nah , kenapa yang warna biru nggak berkombinasi dengan warna yang lain dan membentuk warna yang baru, harusnya kan berkombinasi, contohnya warna biru jika dicampur dengan merah kan menghasilkan warna ungu


Look at the above fancy. It has yellow, white, a bit of metallic, and blue. Why doesn't blue combine with other colors and create a new color. Eg; blue mixed with red creates purple.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Betta colors DO NOT mix like paint. Color genes mostly stay in their layers thus colors do not mix. However, these genes may combine in such a way, let's take copper as an example, the gey/metallic color combines with a tint of red and make the fish look copper. The colors DO NOT mix. It's just the layout that makes them look that way.

Normally if you cross irids to red, the fish will often be a combination of red and irid - blue body red fins plus some red wash on body OR red with some irid on body and fins. The colors do not mix. They stay in their layers. 

Similarly; Metallic and dragon scales also stay in their layer - which to my knowledge occupy the top layer. They usually cover black. So black usually only affects color shade - make the color look darker and or more intense. 

There are also mutations. A layer may seem thin enough for lower layers to affect physical appearance - like how black influences color shades OR lavender that may look rather purple-ish.

If you are asking why the genes work that way; I have no answer other than Nature made them operate that way. All I can explain is the tendencies genes show when mixed.

I hope that answers your question


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