# Marble vs Dalmation



## cousiniguana

I know marbles can change pattern throughout their lives, but I had read that dalmations had stable markings. Are these different genetics at play?


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## hrutan

A dalmation fish is an orange fish with red spots on the fins, whereas a marble has an ever-changing pattern of varying colors (depending on the fish). There are definitely different genetics at play. Dalmation markings occur in the fins only - nowhere else. They may be related to marble, however.

While it's counter-intuitive, a fish with spots on the body is _not _a dalmation. It's usually either a grizzle or a marble (some marbles can be grizzles, but not all grizzles are marbles).


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## cousiniguana

What would that guy be? A marbled dalmatian?


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## hrutan

This is a dalmation: http://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35295&stc=1&d=1314165071

This is a marble (colors may vary): http://www.livetropicalfish.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/marble-betta-fish.jpg

This is a koi (related to marble, but with larger, more stable markings): http://bettasource.com/uploads/images/247/10__medium.jpg

And I'm a little fuzzy on the last marble related color pattern, armageddon. I believe instead of red / orange like a dalmation, it's red YELLOW (which is quite interesting, as it was once thought that red and yellow could not exist on the same fish). These have now been spotted with red and yellow on the body at the same time.

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/sla4545/Bettas/Army1Aquastar71.jpg


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## hrutan

As far as I understand, that's a straight-up marble with a striking pattern. Dalmation is only orange/red.


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## cousiniguana

Very interesting and great information. I love fish with interesting patterns. I had been hoping to buy one, but would be disappointed to have the pattern totally disappear.


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## Myates

Dalmations can be blue as well.. the president of the IBC and his wife breed blue dalmations. They aren't common though  Wish they were!


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## hrutan

I haven't heard of blue dalmations. The ones that are commonly referred to as "dalmations" are all orange and refer to a very specific type of betta, although sellers will use any term they can come up with to make a sale. 

More info here:
http://www.bettysplendens.com/spotting-the-orange-dalmatian.html


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## indjo

IMO dalmation, koi, and marbles are caused by different genes.

To my understanding anything resembling the markings of the dalmation dog is a dalmation. I have seen dalmation patterns in red, orange, yellow (these three are most common), also in blue and black. The color blotches are not caused by marbling and will remain the same color/pattern. It's a mutation that causes blotches.

Marbling is caused by "jumping" genes, causing color changes. Some experience more changes and much longer periods than others. During color shifts, patterns may sometimes look like blotches or patches. In time these patterns will change. IMO they can't be named for something that isn't permanent.

Koi is a pattern that resembles the koi fish (carp) - patterns made up of patches. I know many say koi is marble related and perhaps this is currently true in many cases. But many years ago, before the days of the dragons (lol), I had koi patterns that were permanent. I was never interested in them so didn't really paid much attention. But they had permanent pattern from the day they were bought (parents)/young (fry) to the day they died.


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## Nimble

Indjo, how has the arrival of the Dragon to the world of Bettas changed it from before they arrived? I'm sure that the arrival of such an interesting mutation caused some commotion, and changed the direction of breeding in several different ways. Any insight into the past, for those of us just getting into the hobby?


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## indjo

Before the days of the dragons most people/breeders I know will avoid marbles when possible. They wanted permanent color patterns. Further marble genes didn't influence color/color pattern - in any specific way. Marbles only made their colors/patterns change which can actually be frustrating when entering shows. Nowadays it is said that certain colors/patterns can ONLY be achieved by adding marble genes. Consequently many readily and intentionally add marbling to their lines - amongst which are today's koi dragons and super blacks.


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## cousiniguana

That's just what I'm looking for indjo, a permanent color pattern. I trying to find a way to choose a young betta that will still look similar in a year.


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## indjo

In that case you want a dalmation. Make sure it isn't labelled marble.


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## Fenghuang

Indjo, would you consider this male a dalmation? I bought him as a young fish from Petco, so he did colour up as he got older, but his pattern always remained fairly consistent now that I know there is a difference between a fish's colour maturing and marbling the two. I have been trying to find another one like him ever since, but those I thought were like him always marbled out.


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## trilobite

Thats looks marble, I had a few like that in my dragon marble spawn which marbled out into bigger blue splodges.


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## indjo

Those pattern would most likely be marble (combination of blothes/spots and patches). But since he hasn't changed color, perhaps he is a dalmation geno. I'd call a betta a true dalmation if it had consistent markings.


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