# Help! Something on my fish's eye - popeye?



## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

See attached pictures-

His left eye doesn't look swollen compared to the right, but there's a white thing on it. Is this the beginning of popeye? Some other eye infection? What should I do?

Ammonia and nitrites are 0, nitrates are low. He ate well this morning (frozen daphnia) and has been very active. He is in a 5g tank with plants and I did a water change a week ago. I was planning to do another water change tonight.

I only just got him last week!!! =(

-mathkid


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

The second photo does show a slight enlargement of the right eye compared to the left eye but could it just be the angle? Do you notice that the eyes have changed? I asked because some betta eyes can look a little pop-out but it's normal for them. Are the eyes cloudy? See if you can take an actual photo of each eye?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

I only just got him, so I'm not sure if this is his normal state or not. He is a delta tail, if that helps. 

I changed the water yesterday morning (~70%) and now the weird white hanging-on thing is gone. However, one eye (his right, my left) looks a little cloudier than the other. It's hard to tell, though... it looks OK when you look at it straight on... but it looks cloudy at an angle. I'll attach pictures in a moment.

(I don't think he likes the camera much... I turned off flash, but I think the orange focus light scares him.)


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

I understand it's hard to know since he is new to you. Generally in my experience, the eyes (the transparent cornea) should be quite clear at all angles. So if you think the eyes look a bit cloudier than what you would normally seen, I would probably suggest putting in epsom salt treatment to see if that clears it up. In case you haven't done this treatment, I will give you the steps. 

1) dissolve 1 tsp of epsom salt (unscented and uncolored) to same temp 1 gal of preconditioned water 
2) add stress coat if you have any
3) mix well and put in a small QT tank
4) leave betta in there
5) repeat steps in 24 hours
6) observe for other signs of the body and also if the cloudiness is decreasing

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi earthworm88,

Thanks for the epsom salt treatment steps. I have epsom salt, stress coat, and a QT tank, so I will go ahead and do that as soon as I get home from work tonight. I should leave him there for a full 24 hours, yes? (Not just a dip?)

Here's pictures of him, very unhappy about the camera. As soon as I stopped taking pictures, he went back to normal swimming around and playing in the filter.

IMG_1641 - his right eye, looking clear from this angle
IMG_1642 - his right eye, looking cloudy
IMG_1643 - his left eye, looking clear


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Ahh, it's so frustrating. =(

Sometimes it looks like there's a little bit of wispy fuzziness on his right eye. Sometimes I can't see it. Does that mean something worse??


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

OK, there's definitely a spot of fuzziness on his right eye. I have read that this might be fungus or bacteria. I don't believe it's popeye as the eye hasn't swollen at all. D=


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

mathkid said:


> OK, there's definitely a spot of fuzziness on his right eye. I have read that this might be fungus or bacteria. I don't believe it's popeye as the eye hasn't swollen at all. D=


I hear your frustration :-( Cloudy eyes can be caused by bacteria and in rare cases by fungus. Since you are seeing fuzziness, we can assume it's fungus. Is he on treatment yet? Have you got aquarium salt on hand? Try PM OFL, Sakura etc for second opinion.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for your patience, earthworm88.

I went ahead and moved him into a QT with aquarium salt at 1 tsp/gal and also stress coat. Looking at the stickies in this section, it seemed like that was recommended for both fungus and popeye. He's behaving normally so far, ate dinner as usual. Here's hoping this will help... and I'll PM Sakura8 and OFL.

In the meantime, I think I will give the main tank a thorough cleaning... I don't think it really cycles anyway, with so many plants, and maybe there's something in there that caused this =(


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## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

mathkid said:


> I went ahead and moved him into a QT with aquarium salt at 1 tsp/gal and also stress coat.


Good you have AQ salt handy and already started him on treatment.



> Looking at the stickies in this section, it seemed like that was recommended for both fungus and popeye.


Technically, pop-eye is treated with ES  AQ will treat cloudy eye.



> He's behaving normally so far, ate dinner as usual.


Acting normal and eating are always good signs 



> In the meantime, I think I will give the main tank a thorough cleaning... I don't think it really cycles anyway, with so many plants, and maybe there's something in there that caused this =(


OFL among others is an expert on this. Hopefully your tank will cycle properly so you get to sit back and enjoy without all these worries. 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Other than the cloudy eye....how is he acting and eating.....


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Just a picture update. He is still quite active in his QT.

* It almost looks like there's a cloudy film *over* his eye.
* From above, the eye doesn't look swollen much, if at all.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi OFL! Thanks for looking!

He's been acting fine, as far as I can tell. I just fed him his pellets and he gobbled them up. Yesterday was a daphnia/bloodworms day and he was happy about that too.

He's sort of obsessed with his QT walls - keeps swimming back and forth near them, sometimes he looks like he's trying to get *out*. Can fish see their reflection in the glass?

He's kind of hyper, actually. Lots of swimming. Except for the time with all the camera flashes, he's never clamped up his fins.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry I should have ask all of this to start.....

This is a 5gal tank-need to know-filter, live plants, how much and how often are the water changes, water temp, type of additives used, appetite, any tank mates, how long have you had him, if new, how did you acclimate him, if you have had him for a while-has he ever been sick and/or treated in the past 2 weeks...


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Here's the info:
Housing 
What size is your tank? 5gal
What temperature is your tank? 78*
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none- well, there are small snails

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? pellets (Zoo Med), frozen daphnia, frozen bloodworms
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day, 3 pellets usually, sometimes bloodworms OR daphnia

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? once/week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Prime

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: low (near 0, hard to tell on the scale)
pH: -
Hardness: -
Alkalinity: -

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Cloudy film with slight fuzziness on one eye
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? No change, he acts fine
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 2 days ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? yesterday, switched to QT with 1tsp/gal aquarium salt
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only got him 1 week ago, so no
How old is your fish (approximately)? =(

ETA:
Oh- live plants are 1 anubias and a few pennywort, watersprite, water wisteria. I've had some trouble with algae, and there's been white hair algae growing on the roots of the plants (at least, that's what I think it was). Could it have actually been bacteria/something bad for him?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

FYI - here's a video of how he's behaving. You can see a bit of him trying to swim "out" at 1:05. This seems pretty normal for him - sometimes he swims a little more frantically than this, but not by much. He doesn't appear to be rubbing against the gravel or plants - only the glass. You can see how one eye is cloudy and the other black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ3A8ew0qBo


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

What a pretty fella....nice find....

Since you have him in QT and started him on aquarium salt and no swelling at the eye and its just one eye....I would continue the salt and do a full 10day treatment.....be sure and attach the QT to the inside of the heated tank so it doesn't sink and you can maintain the temp.....

I would premix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water and add Aquarium salt 2tsp/gal and a tannin source if you have one-either IAL or dried Oak leaf-Use this premixed Tx water for 25% water changes every 15min for 1 hour today....he needs to stay in the QT and the Tx water during the treatment period....

Tomorrow start 50% water changes with the Tx water every day for 3 days-Then 100% on day 4...repeat this schedule for the 10days-
Then start 25% for 2 days using fresh like temp dechlorinated water.

Make a 50% water change on the tank and start using the tank water for 2 more days of 25% water changes to get him re-acclimated back to the tank water chemistry....the cycle should continue and/or hold on the filtered tank since it has live plants....

Since he is overall acting and eating okay and its just a cloudy eye-most likely cause if not injury related-can be nutrition related, flukes, sudden chemistry changes, improper acclimation to new chemistry or high nitrate from the pet shop to name a few common causes.....

If the eyes start to swell or he has a change in symptom-you may need to switch over the Epsom salt...

Nutrition-good quality varied diet and by the looks of your food list...you should be good-but if you have access to mosquito larva-offer a few rinsed for one meal a day to boost protein a bit.....

Keep us posted.....


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks OFL! He gets prettier every day =)

For clarification:
I was pretty sure I couldn't add AQ salt to the 5gal tank (because of the snails & live plants). I didn't want to float him in his cup for so long, so I moved him to a separate 2.5G tank (plastic plants) and added the salt water there. I moved the heater to that tank, which has been stressing me out because I'm terrified of the heater going wonky in such a small volume.

Today I picked up a hang-on container (it's about a 1/2 gal) and plan to hang that in the 5gal tank and do the rest of the salt treatment there. I'll feel much better when the heater's working with a filter in a larger tank. (I'm curious, though, how does the container keep the water temperature high enough when it isn't sharing water with the rest of the tank?)

So it sounds like the plan is:

Today: Move him into the hang-on container. In 15 min increments, do 25% 2tsp/gal water changes to gradually increase salinity from current 1 tsp/gal
~10 days - 50% changes for 3 days, 100% the fourth, keeping at 2tsp/gal salinity
2 days: gradually decrease salinity with 25% fresh water changes
2 days: gradually decrease salinity and accustom back to tank water with 25% tank water changes

Are those water change percentages still OK with a 1/2gal QT hanging inside the main tank? Or do I need to do larger changes in a smaller container?


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Picture update!

Sometime yesterday, it looked like something white and filmy "fell off" his eye - I could have been imagining it, though. At any rate, his eye is steadily looking better! Thanks for all the advice and help =)

Here's his bad eye now, with bonus picture of snail on outside of his QT!

For the record:
Feb 7th-ish - noticed cloudy/fuzzy eye, did ~60% water change
Feb 8th - moved to 2g QT with 1tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 9th - moved to hang-in-tank 1/2gal QT, gradually changed water with 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 10th - 50% water change, 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 11th - 50% water change, 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
I use a pipette thing to get out the ickies during water changes.

-mathkid


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Oh no... relapse =(

Continuing from previously... here's the total salt treatment I did:

Feb 7th-ish - noticed cloudy/fuzzy eye, did ~60% water change
Feb 8th - moved to 2g QT with 1tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 9th - moved to hang-in-tank 1/2gal QT, gradually changed water with 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 10th - 50% water change, 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 11th - 50% water change, 2tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 12th - 100% water change, 2sp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 13th - 50% water change, with 1tsp/gal aquarium salt
Feb 14th - 50% water change, fresh water
Feb 15th - 50% water change, tank water
Feb 16th - 50% water change, tank water (a.m. and p.m.) - released back into main tank that evening

I did a large water change (~80%) in the tank on the 15th - rinsed all the algae and such off the plants, redid some of the scape - in case some bacteria on the plants had been the cause...? But the cloudy eye is coming back! This time, there's a little bit on both eyes. 

Sigh... I guess I cut the AQ salt treatment too early? But he really *hated* being in the 1/2 gal QT... he glass surfs even in his 5gal, and he glass surfed *all the time* in QT.

I did the chem tests again yesterday, and they were still fine - 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 2 nitrates. Temperature is 79*, and I have a digital thermometer now, so I match the temperature closely when I do water changes. I did a 50% water change in the 5 gal today just to be safe. He's still active, eats normally, swims normally (except for his glass surfing habit).

My plan for now is to do the 50% water change every few days, keep testing the water, and see if the cloudy eye gets worse. What could be causing this?? Should I be feeding him differently? I rotate between Zoo Med pellets, frozen bloodworms, and frozen daphnia (in that order of frequency).


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## Theraggy1 (Jan 30, 2011)

I could be a number of things, the first that comes to my mind is a parasite, since the white thing was hanging off. But then you mentioned fuzzes so then I thought Fungus.

Popeye normally doesn't get fuzzy, but grows large. So I doubt its that, however if it does get larger then the other eye then tell us.

If the AQ salt doesn't clear it up, i'd try a fungus medicine first to see if that will get it gone.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

To clarify: right now, his only symptom is cloudy eye - no fuzzies, no swelling.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You can't use salt in planted tanks.. just fyi.. will kill plants..

For actual meds look for Kanaplex or Maracyn Plus or if you can't find either look for Furan-2 -or- Maracyn and Maracyn-2 in combo.

Sounds like there may be something in the tank.. doing several large water changes over the course of a week or two will hopefully reduce this bacteria, but if it goes away in qt and keeps coming back each time you add him in spite of the increase in changes it may need to be broken down and sterilized, but hopefully this can be avoided. In the meantime you have the choice of removing and treating 2 weeks of aquarium salts or the meds.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Yeah, I have Maracyn I & II and I have antibiotic flakes (Kanamycin). But I'd rather avoid medicating if possible. I'm wondering if there's bacteria on the tank walls or something? And since he glass surfs so much, it gets on his eyes? ... I have no idea if that's even plausible.

Sigh, back into the QT he goes. I won't take him out early this time, and I'll try doing large water changes in the tank proper during his treatment. Hopefully after the full 10 days, the main tank will be clean enough. If it comes back even after that, I'll go ahead and sterilize.

2/19 - moved to QT. 50% water change with 1tsp/gal AQ salt


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Well, he's happily glass surfing and bubble nesting in QT. Left eye looks almost completely clear, right eye still cloudy. Sigh, I wish I could get him to stop glass surfing.


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Picture update (hope it's OK to use this thread as a treatment journal). He's on Day 4 of aq salt treatment. 

Left eye - almost clear
Right eye - still cloudy


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Well, it's day 10 and he looks pretty much the same as he did on day 4 - left eye clear, right eye still has a smudge of fog. I'll go ahead and take him off salt but leave him in quarantine plus frequent water changes for a while longer. Still eating well, very active. =S


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

He's in fresh water in quarantine now. Eye status is the same (left eye clear, right eye has a smudge across the top), but there's been a new development. There are tiny pin-prick holes on his head O_O

Could this be from the salt?? What happened?

Other than the holes, there's no other changes... he still eats well, still very active (but not darting, etc). He hates being floated in his cup for water changes and swims round and round and tries really really hard to swim out the side. I was a little concerned about the areas of less pigment on his face (the lower half + band around his eye), but I looked at old pictures from earlier, and he's always seemed to have those...


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

Compare to this pic from Page 2 (Feb 9), which also has the hole... but maybe the loss of color is getting worse?


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