# Columnaris Treatment, Please, Please Help



## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

I have posted two other threads about problems with my Mr. P, but there hasn't been too much response. Now that I feel like I have successfully determined what his issue is, I want to know if I am treating correctly. 

See other two threads here: 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=144922
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=147713

Today, I noticed Mr. P has long white, stringy looking things hanging off some of his fins, and a similar looking thing attached to one gill. They do not look like parasites. He is also extremely discolored, missing scales, and looks like he has small, open wounds and lesions that I can only describe as "furry" or looking like plaques. His gills are also rapidly moving and look discolored. He frequently surfaces for air, sometimes almost in a panicked manner. However, there has been no loss in appetite and only slightly decreased activity. I am fairly sure I am dealing with Columnaris here, possibly an extremely severe case due to the missing scales and open wounds. 

Mr. P is in a half gallon hospital tank with no substrate. He is being treated with combined Maracyn 1 and 2, and aquarium salt. 

What else can be done? You have no idea how much I don't want to lose this fish.


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## Betty39 (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm still new to betta care but thought I'd throw in some thoughts (I'm hoping for a response to something I posted yesterday). Having looked at the other threads I couldn't tell if you went to 100% daily water changes or not - this may not work with the meds you are using though. Also - can you use salt and your meds at the same time, I've read that salt can interfere with some kinds of treatment.


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thank you for your suggestions, Betty. I am doing 50% water changes daily, right before I put the new medicine in, just because his tank is so small that he does need the water changes. I read on a website that is was ok to do this, as long as you are not taking all the meds out. I'm also siphoning his poop and random-tank junk off the bottom when I see it to try to keep the water clean. I read somewhere else that it was ok to use the salt in conunction with maracyn, especially to help with his pitiful gill situation. I hope all of this is right. I just know there are many extremely experienced people on here with several fish. Maybe some of you have successfully dealt with columnaris in the past?


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

Can someone tell me if I'm doing the right things?


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

Tonight, I moved Mr. P from his little hospital tank back into his regular 2.5 gallon. I think the curved shape of the hospital tank was bothering him, he kept running into the walls. I took all the gravel out of the old tank, scrubbed with hot water, filled halfway with clean water, acclimated Mr. P, and treated new tank with Stress Coat, aquarium salt, and Maracyn 1 and 2. Mr. P seems happier in his new tank. He is not quite so panicked when he swims, and he is not coming up as often for air. I hope this is a sign that his medication is working and that his living situation is more to his liking. Keeping my fingers crossed. Your advice is still welcome. I'm a new betta owner and all of this has really been trial and error.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi tngirl (who lives in GA not TN) 

I think moving him back to the larger tank is fine. He doesn't have problems swimming so reaching the surface isn't an issue, and the larger tank won't build up ammonia or toxins as quickly. 

The fish below is suffering from Columnaris. Does it lookxlike what your guy has?









I found an article that has some useful info about Columnaris: http://nippyfish.net/sick-betta/cotton-wool-disease-flex/ Selected quotes are below:

_"Flexibacter columnaris is caused by a gram-negative rod bacterium.... 

... often brought on by poor water conditions including the presence of ammonia, nitrite or elevated nitrate levels.... 

... decreased dissolved oxygen levels may contribute to the growth of flex. Adding an air stone may help to reduce the risk of these bacteria.... 

To treat the disease, purchase an aquarium antibiotic that treats gram-negative bacterial infections. I recommend Mardel’s Maracyn-Two. For serious instances, a combination of both Maracyn and Maracyn-Two may be best to cover any secondary infections. The two medications together will treat both gram-positive and gram-negative bacterium. The antibiotic, oxytetracycline, has been regarded as a very effective cure and may be a key ingredient in some medicated fish foods....

Because the bacteria flourishes in warmer water you may find it beneficial to slowly lower your water temperature over the subsequent couple days. Aim for a temperature on the low spectrum of bettas’ comfort zone. Approximately 75˚F – 77˚F [23.8˚C – 25˚C] is recommended..."_


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Another article: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/columnaris.html:

_"Flexibacter Columnaris can persist in water for up to 32 days when the hardness is 50ppm or more, but a hardness of 10ppm reduces viability considerably. The addition of carbon to the system increases the survival of this disease in hard water, but this is not the case in soft water.

Columnaris is prevelant in systems with high organic loads, crowded conditions, handling and low dissolved oxygen content. Lesions generally develop in 24 to 48 hours following handling, followed by death at 48 to 72 hours if not treated.

Treatment and Control:
Any Sulfa drug combination will work well. TMP Sulfa, Sulfa 4 TMP, or Triple Sulfa."_


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hopefully, the Maracyn and Maracyn 2 combine will work. If it doesn't, perhaps consider sulfa drugs such as Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus.....

Maracyn Plus contains Sulfadimidine and Trimethoprim. So it is similar to the antibiotics described in the second article I posted (sulfa drug, gram negative, etc)........

"Sulphadimidine is highly effective against streptococcus, staphylococcus and gram-negative pathogens..." 
http://www.vetzavodzemun.com/producthem_e.php?id=46

" Trimethoprim is a synthetic antibacterial drug active against a wide variety of aerobic gram-positive and gram-negative ophthalmic pathogens."
http://www.drugs.com/pro/polymyxin-b-and-trimethoprim-ophthalmic-solution.html


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thank you for your help. Mr. P's white growth is not so pronounced, but it is there. What I find more disturbing/concerning is his discoloration, lack of scales, and general raw appearance. Surely he is not suffering from ammonia burns, as I cleaned his larger tank four days after purchasing him, and have been doing 50% changes since his symptoms got worse yesterday. 

He is still acting and eating normally. 

His stomach looked a tad swollen tonight. I hope I am not dealing with dropsy, I won't be able to stomach it.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

If he is starting to look bloated, I would stop the aquarium salt. It contains sodium, which causes fluid retention and stresses the kidneys..... If you want to use a salt, consider switching to Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate). It doesn't contain sodium, and it has a laxative effect which can relieve bloating. It has some antimicrobial properties as well.

Since he's not improving with the meds, I suggest contacting someone like Sakura8, Olympia or Callistra. They may be able to offer more advice. Also, I think Aemaki09 recently dealt with Columnaris, and could probably give you advice.


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## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

I used to use Jungle Fungus Eliminator when all else failed...but it's very similar to the maracyns, so I'm not sure if it would do any good either.  

If all else fails though, you might try that. It may have different percentages of the ingredients or something than the maracyn products do. 

I'm so sorry, I know it's awful then they're sick.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> Today, I noticed Mr. P has long white, stringy looking things hanging off some of his fins, and a similar looking thing attached to one gill. They do not look like parasites. He is also extremely discolored, missing scales, and looks like he has small, open wounds and lesions that I can only describe as "furry" or looking like plaques. His gills are also rapidly moving and look discolored. He frequently surfaces for air, sometimes almost in a panicked manner. However, there has been no loss in appetite and only slightly decreased activity. I am fairly sure I am dealing with Columnaris here, possibly an extremely severe case due to the missing scales and open wounds.
> 
> Mr. P is in a half gallon hospital tank with no substrate. He is being treated with combined Maracyn 1 and 2, and aquarium salt.


Do you happen to know your water hardness? Maracyn is Erythromycin, which is for gram positive bacteria, Maracyn 2 is minocycline which is for gram negative bacteria. Its supposedly a seninthetic version of tetracycline which is very effective at low pH or acidic water condition with pH no more than 7.4-7.5 otherwise ineffective when used with salt and high hardness levels.

I have found that the maracyn/maracyn 2 combo to be innefective. I had to OD the fish on maracyn 2 to get it to work. My water has a PH over 7.5 plus I think this med. combo may be overused and the bacteria are more resistant to it. Furan 2 is a much better choice IMO. Kannaplex is supposed to be even better but that one needs to be ordered online as I have never seen it in any petshop. Furan2 and kannaplex can be combined for a more powerful anti bacterial combination.











* Effective against a wide variety of gram-positive and gram negative bacterial diseases of aquarium fish, including; Furunculosis (Aeromonas), Dropsy, Gill Disease, Fin and Tail Rot, Hemorrhagic Septicemia, Eye Cloud, Black Molly Disease. 
CONTAINS 10 Powder Packets (Treats 100 Gallons) 
*Can be combined with Kanaplex to make an even more wide spectrum treatment, especially for difficult cases of Columnaris or Aeromonas. This duplicates the popular Aquatronics product “Spectrogram” that is no longer available. 
*Can be combined with Kanaplex & Metronidazole for parasitic, fungal, & bacterial infections; this duplicates the popular Aquatronics product “Paragon 2” that is no longer available.


Is he pineconning? then you may want to switch to plain epsom salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon as already mentioned.

If the maracyn combo is working then I would stick with it but if its not working or he gets worse, I would look into another medication. 
Triple Sulfa should also work.


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

He is not pineconing, but I will stop using the aquarium salt when I do his water change this afternoon. I actually did not notice any bloating until after the addition of the salt, so hopefully that is the problem and I'm not looking at dropsy symptoms here. Maybe some epsom salts will help. It is only Day 3 of the Maracyn treatment, so I am not sure that I notice any pronounced improvement, though Mr. P is not surfacing for air in a panicked manner anymore. Perhaps it is working well for his gill infection. I have not noticed any new lesions on his little body. So certainly, he has not gotten worse, but I guess the improvement is not as pronounced as I would like. He did not eat this morning but quite honestly, I think it's because the medicine makes his Omega One pellets sink almost immediately and he just didn't notice them. He is hanging out by the surface, but he still gets excited when I walk into the room and does not look particularly listless or lethargic to me. Should I expect his scales and lesions to be repaired under the antibiotic in just five days, or is it a good indication that he is healed when his gills begin to function normally again and his swimming behavior becomes entirely normal? 

Tikibirds, Mr. P is in extremely soft water with a PH of 5.5. In fact, is is likely much too soft for him, but that is just what comes out of my tap and my vet said that it is worse to raise the PH synthetically than to just allow him to acclimate to whatever comes out of my tap. However, that should mean that the Maracyn should be more effective. 

Has anyone had better luck for these symptoms with the Tetracycline? My pet store also carries that, but it's expensive.  I can't help but feel that if Mr. P were dying, he would not be as energetic/hungry. I hope I can pull him through whatever the trouble is.


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## tngirl92 (Jul 16, 2012)

He also flared at his reflection today, so he's not too sick to do that.


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## Fifi (Dec 2, 2012)

From your description of white stringy things and patches, this sounds like a fungal infection from everything I have ever read. Maybe you need to consider using an anti fungal med, rather than treating for fin rot. I wish you the best!


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