# Good pair?



## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

I am trying to match up a male for my female koi betta. I found this male, he is a "fantasy" betta. They are both HMPK. If I breed these two, will I get babies with red, yellow and black spots/splashes? Also, am I ruining the "koi"/"fantasy" trait by mixing the two, or does it not really matter? I don't understand how the color/pattern names are decided, if there is more than one kind in the same spawn, or if I need to breed koi to koi and fantasy to fantasy etc...

My Koi Female










The Fantasy Male


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Marbles are marbles. It will be an interesting spawn. Also dont be fooled by the fancy names you'll see...just a gimmick to make money.


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## leeb62 (Oct 22, 2010)

From what I read online read is the dominant color so most of your frys will probably have the red instead of the yellow and black you see. You can read more online by google it.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Personally I think you'll get a lot of red and marble based black.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

What makes a fish a marble? Hmm, if they are mostly red I might pass. I want both red and yellow.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO those are exceptional mutations. Even if you breed 2 of the same kind you may not get specific patterns like the parents. Never the less the offspring has that mutating gene and will show similar coloring.

A marble is when the fish changes color from it's original color when young. Most often marbles turn into a pale/whitish pattern. Recently I came up with marbles that sort of turned pale and eventually became reddish (from copper). 

I don't really like marbles because it's unpredictable. They change color patterns that I like. Some marbles change partially while others may change totally....... I don't know how to best describe it - unpredictable.

I wouldn't mix yellow to red. For yellow to appear you need non red gene (Nr) which is recessive towards red. It would be more probable to mix marble, red cambodian, and yellow or something containing such genes.... I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever seen one fish having both yellow and red colors. So I assume that those colors don't mix - you either have one or the other... but then again new mutations may occur.... who knows.

Good luck.


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## Sanka101 (Feb 3, 2011)

Id breed that female to a nice yellow or yellow marble.. the red is dominant like others have said and youll probs get mostly red marbles.. you may get a few like the mom but its a bit of a gamble.. :-?


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

If I bred the female to a solid yellow, do you think there would be mostly solid yellows or a mix of solids and splashes/spotted ones? 

Thanks, everyone, for all the advice so far.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

When dealing with marbles it's a total crapshoot. Your female could end up being totally clear or totally black or even decide she wants to turn blue. You just have to pick marbles based on fins and colors you'd hope to have and then cross your fingers and see what results.

I suggest you do a little more research on color genetics before jumping into a pair. You want to have at least a basic idea of what you're working with.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

smellsfishie said:


> If I bred the female to a solid yellow, do you think there would be mostly solid yellows or a mix of solids and splashes/spotted ones?
> 
> Thanks, everyone, for all the advice so far.


What ever you breed those with, you'd most probably get more with mixed colors. Other than the recessive yellow, you have marble genes... unpredictable. 

Yellow is very recessive (I think). I bred 2 generations - copper x yellow then F1 to yellow - but none turned out yellow. So IMO, you need parents with very strong yellow genes.... or what ever its called.... to get yellow offspring. 

I second 1f2f that it would be best for you to read more on color genetics, particularly yellow. Because though the fish may show a single yellow color, it's actually comprised of many genetic codes...... I've been reading all I can find on yellow/gold and still don't understand.... lol. I often think that the Mendelian theory doesn't apply to betta genetics. lol.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

The problem with Mendelian genetics and betta colors is many colors involve 2 or more genes in order to be expressed.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

OK. Well, if I don't get yellows it is not the end of the world, but it would be cool. I am just learning, and if I can get 1 spawn at all I would be happy. i did do some reading about the color combos and the dominant/recessive genes. We'll see. I still think that red male is pretty awesome.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Since yellow is the result of non-red genes, you cannot have red and yellow on the same fish. The fry would most likely have a varying amount of red and black. If you crossed the female to a yellow male you would get a varying degree of yellow and black with maybe some random ones thrown in.

You can't apply the simple mendelian genetics to betta color since many of the genes responsible for color are on the same chromosome and are inherited together even if they don't show in the fish. That's why you always get a few surprises in each batch 

I personally love the red male too, but I'm out of room for new fishes D:


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

Did you see these two?
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305134359

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305134355


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Ok thanks darkmoon.  pitgurl, I did.  They have the right colors but I am not excited about either one... not saying they aren't beautiful. There was another one from the same seller I was looking at too.


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

Xmanbettas has some cool HMPK's sometimes. He is on aqua bid but I don't think he has any stock right now. He also has a website. His fish have some really interesting colors.

http://www.xmanbetta.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=538993800


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

wow, gorgeous! Thanks for sharing.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

So, just wanted to share this fish on AB who has both yellow and red splashes of color......... I guess it can be done.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305792121


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

If you do want a male that NOW looks like your female, I would choose this guy








he has exceptional fins and he looks like your female and you will probably get yellow from the spawn.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305656422


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

I saw him and was contemplating, for sure.


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## SillyCone (May 7, 2011)

I would totally buy that one... If only I had another tank and another table to keep it in my room... lol!


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

There is this guy too,

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305798532


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow they look so similar I thought it was the same one. Haha.. after further inspection, I like the 2nd one better as far as color/splashing ... I am not a great judge of finnage yet but I think he has good fins too?


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

i personally like the second one too. lol


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Haha  hmm I am going to think on it. I think they are both great potentials.  I just have to figure out how I am going to house another boy.


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## PitGurl (Feb 22, 2011)

This is the one! A little more $ but worth it. He has great fins.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305976235

This guy is nice too. Not as "loud" but gotta love the yellow lips.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1305976250


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow, they are both really nice! I think the first one would be great for my other female, Lula, who is mostly black and white with just a little bit of yellow... and the other guy maybe for Eggie, or the first male for both, I don't know, but I like the 2nd one a lot! And the first one... I can't decide! hahaha  Maaaaaaan..........


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

here are the four things to decide on and pick the one that has the most of these
best finnage
best coloring
price
and how many different females you could breed to.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

it's a very tough choice, and I don't even know if I can have either one because I am going out of town for 2 weeks and don't know if I will be back in time, PLUS last night my mother surprised me with 4 baby duck eggs that are fertilized and were abandoned by mama duck so now I am taking care of those too plus my 4 fish tanks and no room for another boy unless I set up another tank or divide mine up but...... erg........ lots going on in life.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Look! Another betta with red and yellow! It can be done!!!


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## SillyCone (May 7, 2011)

Whoa...

I'm speechless.


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## russalka (Mar 23, 2011)

You could check with ninebettas and see if he has a fancy HMPK fish with black and yellow. This one is one the youtube channel that ninebettas use to show me the fish I bought from him. http://www.youtube.com/user/mecha09#p/u/8/eOKvcjCF5x4

I don't know whether the fancy dragon HMPK is available. Also, this is a dragon fancy, so he also has white metalic scales. http://http://www.youtube.com/user/mecha09#p/u/6/NLA_YUVUbbY


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

WOW saw this guy on another thread- another yellow and red betta!!! This is the best one yet!!!!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow those are exceptional colors. Those are the first I've ever seen - red and yellow on one betta. It can actually be done.....


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## beaver999 (Jun 24, 2011)

He looks like a fireworks show put onto a fish.
That normal...
right?
:lol:


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