# Petco/Petsmart and Bad Fish Advice



## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I was talking to my father last night about my fish. 

I got my fish betta about 15 years ago when I was 6 (by me I mean my parents got a betta fish for my room). My set up then was a 3 gallon kritter keeper (pet keeper), 25 watt heater, gravel, a cave and a plastic plant (which is actually fairly soft... I still wouldn't use it now). My first fish (a purple VT from petco named Purples. Remember I was 6) lived for over 2 years and died of old age. 

I asked my father how he knew what a proper set up for a betta was and what the proper care was. He told me that he when I said I wanted a pet, he did research in to fish (my parents are both allergic to cats and dogs) and he decided that a betta was the best choice. He said that even though he knew what size tank to get and to get a heater, he wanted to know what the store said. 

He said that the guy at petco told him to get at least a 2.5 gallon tank with a heater (didn't say anything about a filter) and said to do one 100% water change a week, cleaning out the gravel and decor each time. 

That isn't terrible advice. 

So my question is, What happend to petco? 

My father went into that same store 2 months ago to buy a 2.5 gallon tank and the guy working their told him that a 2.5 gallon tank was too big for a betta and would kill it....


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

Your dad probably happened upon someone who actually did know what they were talking about, which, unfortunately, seems to be few and far between.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

i know. It's sad. He even told me that he doesn't even remember seeing any of those .5 gallon or 1 gallon tanks. 2.5 was the smallest and it was one of the glass ones. He bought the pet keeper because it was cheaper, lighter and had a lid...

I was at petsmart last week and watched as the employee told a mother with two kids that she could get that .5 gallon Aqueon tank that has a divider so that each of her kids could have a fish....


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

You're lucky you got great advice - at least your dad. It's always nice to start out right. 

I'm here now knowing what I know and I cringe at how badly I started out years back. I feel awful at how our first betta ended up. I'm just glad we called it quits on fish keeping back then instead of getting a second or third one. 

Whoever advised your dad was probably like one of the members of this board who really is into the hobby.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

probably! I'm just glad that my dad got a good employee when he went with me. I was 6, so I don't exactly remember much about the trip except that EVERY fish was a VT and was either red or blue, except for the one I got. 

I'm also glad that my dad did his own research first before going to the store.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> probably! I'm just glad that my dad got a good employee when he went with me. I was 6, so I don't exactly remember much about the trip except that EVERY fish was a VT and was either red or blue, except for the one I got.
> 
> I'm also glad that my dad did his own research first before going to the store.


Your dad sounds awesome. He may be giving it to you but as the adult, the pets are his and your mom's responsibility. I think most parents know if you get bored and don't get attached they'll be stuck feeding and caring for your pet.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

yeah I'm pretty sure my dad knew that when he got the fish. He was the one that always did water changes and for the first couple of months fed him until I learned to do it on my own. 

Of course during water changes he made sure I was with him the entire time. When I was smaller I just cleaned the decor while he took care of the tank but as I got older the only thing he did was carry it to and from the bathroom since I couldn't lift it. 

I think this is the best way to do it, making sure your kids are there during water changes and showing them how to clean the tank and making sure they understand the importance of water changes. I'm only 21 so I know I won't have kids anytime soon but when I do I know that I'll get them their own tanks (meaning they will have it in their room but it is my responsibility). I think it's extremely irresponsible when parents "buy their kids fish" and set the tank up in their room and forget about it.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It depends on the shop, depends on the employees. I got my new girl from a PetSmart, the employee on duty in the fish area was super nice and concerned about the welfare of the fish...she had one of her "kids" (her words, not mine) doing water changes on the bettas while I was in there. I tested the water out of curiosity when I got home, and the parameters were better than what comes out of my tap!

Will _definitely _be going back there.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

hrutan that is awesome to here! pretty much every pet store and local fish store here gives terrible advice. The most trusted local fish told me that bettas didn't need a heater.... I live in NYC.... it gets to zero degrees in the winter....


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I think that applies to most pets. The big difference is, it's harder to ignore something that can chew everything you own into confetti.

The biggest worry my parents had with our dogs was what to do when the novelty wears off and none of the kids are interested in doing stuff for him anymore. So to allay their fears, when I was in high school, I went to my lab's breeder. Everyday, I helped with the dogs - cleaning, feeding, bathing and playing. They're not the best trainers but as lab retrievers get very big, it was imperative they learned not to pull on a leash or jump on people. 

I did this for almost a year. I helped with two litters from separate dams. I also helped with a pitbull pup that was surrendered by a friend of theirs. When they had their third litter the following year, I was allowed to have Cedric - still the best achievement of my life after graduating from college. 

This kind of set up isn't available everywhere but I do suppose if the parents wanted to get a pet without having to keep one they can get a relative or friend and have their child help out with keeping the pet.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

that is true that you can't ignore or forget about a cat or dog. 

I agree that kids lose interest very quickly. My parents were lucky and I took to fish very easily and loved keeping them.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

Cats will mew incessantly for food and dog owners know all to well what it's like to be woken up by a wet nose and a face full of drool - both scream BREAKFAST HUMAN.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

hahaha exactly!


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

A bit off topic, but I'm very pleased with Animal Planet. They're doing a new program called Pet School - basically like a pet class for kids to learn what it's like to raise pets they feel like getting.

I haven't seen it yet but I hope it turns out great.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

oh! that sounds like a super good thing! I wish there was something like that when I was younger (I was a huge animal planet nerd as a kid)


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I grew up on Discovery and Nat Geo. I was happy enough to see Animal Planet in my HS days. 

Their first batch of programs were really inspirational - esp. the docu about the tigers that grew up in captivity. ^^


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I just remember being fascinated with all the different animals (although fish always were my favorites). I had an obsession with cheetas for a very long time.


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm mostly into cats as a child. Before my lab, all I had were cats and I was scared of dogs for a good while thanks to some off leash mutt that chased and bit me. -_-"

I loved most big cats. I think it was Aladdin's Princess Jasmine that got me hooked on Tigers. Love them - snow leopards, cheetahs, lions, caracals as well.

I also loved horses a good deal. Much recently, I've taken an interest in birds of prey. ^_^


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Agree that most places give bad advice. I've found 2 places around here that do well with fish, one is an LPS where the store manager is a member of IBC, so of course they take good care of bettas, the other is that PetSmart. There's a third place that is passable, but only because when I let them know the betta water needed changing they jumped right on it without taking offense.

Another place gave me a stomachache when I saw their bettas...and yet another had these beautiful, beautiful aquariums, beautiful setups, perfectly healthy fish...EXCEPT the bettas, which were clamped and cold on a shelf to one side, with poop in the cups. WTF.


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## Pendulum (May 12, 2014)

I've gone into some heated arguments with some employees from Petsmart and Pet Supplies Plus. They've all given me very terrible advice and have told me to stop giving their other customers (who were interested in buying a betta fish but buying a tiny deathbowl) my "wrong" advice (2.5g+ tank, heater, proper ornaments that provide hiding places, thermometer, etc). They walked off after I told them I was doing a better job of their job _and_ giving more sales to the company by suggesting to add heaters and whatnot and all the while I would be keeping the pet fish healthy and happy in the long run.

However, my second (my very first betta fish was way back when I was in middle school) betta fish I bought just a few months back in April, was bought at Petco. This particular store had a betta fish enthusiast to help me and assist me when I was bringing Billy (my betta) home. I was lucky and I know that. I was lucky to get the right information from an actual employee right off the bat. If it wasn't for him, I don't think I would of delved into the Internet for countless hours of research to ensure the happiness and health of my betta fish. And because of this, I still try to inform other customers I see in the pet store of proper care of a betta fish, or any other fish in general. I made a lot of bad mistakes with my first fish and while I still miss him so dearly, I want to try and make up for those mistakes by helping future owners (the ones being influenced to buy tiny cups and being told that no water change is okay) and ensuring a very happy life for my current fish family.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

hahaha I've lost track of how many heated arguments at i've gotten into at pet stores....

I went into petland a few weeks ago and they keep all of their females in a 10 gallon sorority style tank only there are NO decorations or plants or anything. It is a bare tank.... All the female had chucks taken out of their fins and severe stress strips. When i told the fish guy she should either put them in cups or add some plants, he told me I had not idea what i was talking about.


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## Kumo (Oct 26, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> He said that the guy at petco told him to get at least a *2.5 gallon tank with a heater (didn't say anything about a filter) and said to do one 100% water change a week, cleaning out the gravel and decor each time.
> 
> That isn't terrible advice.*
> 
> ...


The general minimum recommendation for a betta (single) is 2.5. I have a betta in a 2.5 (rectangular) and he's totally fine (has a mini castle to hide in a a lot of viney plants to swim through).

As for the "kill it" thing?









You can never be "too big" for a tank for a fish.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Kumo said:


> The general minimum recommendation for a betta (single) is 2.5. I have a betta in a 2.5 (rectangular) and he's totally fine (has a mini castle to hide in a a lot of viney plants to swim through).
> 
> As for the "kill it" thing?
> 
> ...


All of my fish are in 2.5 gallon tanks since my apartment is too small to accommodate any tank large (even if i get a 10 gallon and divide it) and my fish are completely healthy. 

Ugh I know...

the myth that large tanks will kill a betta needs to END


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

Why do people think large tanks will kill a small fish? It's not like apartment people die if you put them in a mansion.

As for pet store employees, I don't take them too seriously - except the good ones. I just balance their input with what I know and decide what's best for my pets. They wanna argue something, I can take my business elsewhere and there's also online shopping.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

I have one fish employee at petco near me I speak to all the time. He knows his fish! not just bettas, all kinds of fish! If he ever quits, I might not go to that petco again. XD


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## Squirt (Aug 17, 2014)

In my area, it's rare to find an employee who is actually aware of how to care for a betta properly, but I'm sure that other regions are more or less likely to have someone educated. There is a small shop that specializes in aquatic pets about an hour walk away that I tend to visit a lot of the time. They're so friendly and welcoming there; the tanks and animals are always clean. When one of my friends was buying a siphon for the first time, an employee showed her how to use it on one of the tanks they had set up (with their own siphon). They've never sent me in the wrong direction when I had questions about the animals and and supplies in stock. I tend to stay away from Petco and Pet Supplies Plus because of them.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

If I have any real questions (which is very rare) then I definitely don't go to petco/petsmart/petland. However sometimes if I'm bored and have time to spare/I see an employee there that I've never met, I pretend that I know nothing about bettas or fish in general to see what they know. 

I think the best one is when an employee told me to get a .5 gallon tank for a betta and just for fun I asked them "so i saw online about this thing called 'cycling' and I'm not sure what that is or how to do it, can you help me understand?" and He replied with "yes, just fill up your tank and leave it out for 24 hours and do a water change." so I said "oh you don't need a filter to cycled your tank?" and he said "no" (with a smile).


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> If I have any real questions (which is very rare) then I definitely don't go to petco/petsmart/petland. However sometimes if I'm bored and have time to spare/I see an employee there that I've never met, I pretend that I know nothing about bettas or fish in general to see what they know.
> 
> I think the best one is when an employee told me to get a .5 gallon tank for a betta and just for fun I asked them "so i saw online about this thing called 'cycling' and I'm not sure what that is or how to do it, can you help me understand?" and He replied with "yes, just fill up your tank and leave it out for 24 hours and do a water change." so I said "oh you don't need a filter to cycled your tank?" and he said "no" (with a smile).



Buahahahahaha XD 

I found out about cycling on this site. really.... without this site I don't think my bettas would have never made it this far. >_>


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Tree said:


> Buahahahahaha XD
> 
> I found out about cycling on this site. really.... without this site I don't think my bettas would have never made it this far. >_>


I agree. While I had been keeping bettas on and off for 14 years before I found this site, I have learned SO MUCH since i joined.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

agreed! if I ever have questions, I go here. 

I have a friend that has a 10 gallon with two corries and whatnot that I am taking care of them until they get moved into their new apartment. The are some things that I cringe on how she does things. I mean she takes care of them well, with a heater and filter, but the only issue I have is that she does not do water changes as often and she adds Aquarium salt every water change. When I told her I do a 50% water change a week, she said what? you don't need to do it every week. (I have all natural planted tanks) I showed her my tanks and she became envious. XD She told me, "Wow you really DO know your stuff about fish care, who told you about how to set up your tanks?" and I said "internet." Hehe


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

Tree said:


> agreed! if I ever have questions, I go here.



Apart from the epic facepalm moments courtesy of most Yahoo answers respondents, I like asking out here because the people here are generally way WAY more courteous. I don't know, overall I guess this place feels more welcoming.


It's so easy to search the net but with so many links and resources it's hard for newbies with really no clue at all who's really giving solid advice so I really appreciate the site.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

I have a pretty good Petsmart near me. One of the girls there is a serious Fullmetal Alchemist fan (like my husband) so we wander over to talk to her a lot. I mentioned I had bettas (only one of the 5 was gotten at Petsmart) and she got this look of dread on her face. Like "omg, I like these ppl, don't tell me they abuse their fish". Then I mentioned that Ares was now banished to the end of the divided tank because he can't handle being in the middle, and that look got worse. "Oh what size tank"? At the time it was a 29 with 3 bettas, and some snails. Loki gets a whole 10 gallon, and Lir refuses to be in anything larger than a 2.5. She then asked if they what kind of heaters I had and what filters I preferred (totally assuming I had them)
I've seen her tell customers, "no you can't put a goldfish and an angelfish together"


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## sweetsura (Aug 19, 2014)

When I was at Petco the other day buying my 5.5 gallon tank, I asked one of the employees if I needed a lid for the tank. The employee told me "you don't need a lid, because Betta Fish don't jump" 

A few days later, I'm in my bathroom washing my hands and Sven leaps out of the water and onto the counter! I got him back in the water immediately... Betta's don't jump? Pfft... right.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

sweetsura said:


> When I was at Petco the other day buying my 5.5 gallon tank, I asked one of the employees if I needed a lid for the tank. The employee told me "you don't need a lid, because Betta Fish don't jump"
> 
> A few days later, I'm in my bathroom washing my hands and Sven leaps out of the water and onto the counter! I got him back in the water immediately... Betta's don't jump? Pfft... right.



LOL! I laugh at the employ not the fact he jumped out. but I am glad he is ok. ^_^


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## SkyDye (Jun 29, 2014)

Recently my friend went to petsmart to get a betta, and when I asked her what the employee told her care wise, I was shocked. The employess told her she does *not *need water conditioner, a .5 gallon will be good for the betta, and to feed the betta 2 pellets every other day. What kinda employee says the bettas doesn't need water conditioner??


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

SkyDye said:


> Recently my friend went to petsmart to get a betta, and when I asked her what the employee told her care wise, I was shocked. The employess told her she does *not *need water conditioner, a .5 gallon will be good for the betta, and to feed the betta 2 pellets every other day. What kinda employee says the bettas doesn't need water conditioner??


one, either the employee does not know anything, or they want her to come back and buy more fish over and over and over again just to get sales. x_x


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

bettas don't need water conditioner....
what??????
i want to slap that employee


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## sweetsura (Aug 19, 2014)

....WHAAT?! They DON'T need water conditioner? Does this person have a rock for a brain?


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

sweetsura said:


> ....WHAAT?! They DON'T need water conditioner? Does this person have a rock for a brain?


Most fish store personnel don't actually bother telling you that you need it.

I bought my first betta almost ten years ago and no one mentioned this. They just tell you to give it tap water every other day/week (depending on who you talk to). 

Which is why it's still important to research on your own - I've been to pet shops where I've been served by the owner's 10-year old. Not much info in there...


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## sweetsura (Aug 19, 2014)

Right, because to them... it's "oh, your finned friend died? Well, we have several more you can choose from." more money in their pocket. :-(


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## Vergil (Nov 10, 2013)

I don't know. I think they're just fed up by now with having to explain that this isn't a cheap hobby just because the fish are readily buyable - esp. since most customers think you're trying to weasel money from their tight purses with fancy needless items only pros/serious hobbysits would get.


There are a lot of things about the hobby that you can't explain in a few minutes - and if you did, it's usually at the expense of sales... :/


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## sweetsura (Aug 19, 2014)

That does make sense...


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## Betaphototramp (Apr 13, 2014)

VivianKjean, You father is awesome, and the first betta you got had a great home because of his taking the time to research the fish and it's needs (more people need to do this first before buying any pet. The shop keeper at the time was well informed and most likely into the hobby, which at that time most people who worked or owned pet stores were. Now a days you walk into petco or petsmart and the employees are just there for the job. They are not well informed and could care less. total difference in the way things were and the way things are today. There is not much we can do without interfering in the big company's operation. Petco and Petsmart only care about bottom line. Betta sales in these store are ones of impulse buying and they know it. Most people who buy betta do it because there cheep, pretty and easy to care for. (put them in a small bowl and give them food and change there water when you can't see the fish anymore.) I don't know everything about each fish but I know the basics and a little more of fish keeping. i've been in the hobby for going on 40 years and yes I have made stupid novice mistakes along the way but I have learned and have been able to enjoy the beauty and enjoyment of aquarium keeping. I know I have more experience than most employees of any LFS, petco, and petsmart but that's because I want the best, (not only for the fish but for me.) I like it when friends come over and see the tanks I have and say there just simply gorgeous. Yes it make me feel great, but they don't see the work and love I put into getting my tanks looking the way they do. There is a difference in doing the work and research for the hobby and doing a job. It's the love you have for the fish and the hobby that drives us to give the best we can to our charges. It's our choice and what we do with that choice that makes the difference.


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## averyecho (May 2, 2014)

The only reason my first betta, Amethyst, didn't end up in a bowl is because my dad had kept fish as a kid, and, fortunately knew better than the fish guy at the petsmart. (I was 6 or 7 at the time, mind you, and didn't really know anything about fish.) The guy told us that keeping him in a tank bigger than .25 gallons would kill him instantly, and if we put anything other than plastic plants in the tank, he would immediately die from shock. Fortunately, my dad wasn't clueless enough to believe him. Amethyst went home with a 1.5 gallon, a heater, and live plants. The fish guy also told us he would live for 1 year tops. Amethyst is now 7.
That's not to say there aren't some good fish guys at the chain stores out there. I have met several people who try their best to talk all the customers into proper tanks. Unfortunately, this is not the case everywhere; most don't really know anything about proper betta care and instead follow the myths that continue to be perpetuated by pet stores, and many a betta ends up in a cold little bowl as a pet to a hyperactive five year old.
I actually don't know exactly why people started falling for the bowls in the first place. My dad says that when he was a kid, the fish store he went to didn't sell anything under 5 gallons, and always told customers the basics of what they needed to know about what they were buying. Now 90% of it is just myth. And novelty tanks.
In short, this entire subject saddens me.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes, it seems that a lot has changed in the last 15 years from when I started keeping fish. The "aquarium experts" that work at the petco and petsmart near me are all probably young kids fresh out of college with no fish experience. 

I went to petsmart about a month ago and was going to buy a nerite snail. The first one I picked out happened to be dead in the display tank at the store so I decided to not get one. The employee couldn't understand how one dead snail would prevent me from buying.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> Yes, it seems that a lot has changed in the last 15 years from when I started keeping fish. The "aquarium experts" that work at the petco and petsmart near me are all probably young kids fresh out of college with no fish experience.
> 
> I went to petsmart about a month ago and was going to buy a nerite snail. The first one I picked out happened to be dead in the display tank at the store so I decided to not get one. The employee couldn't understand how one dead snail would prevent me from buying.


There's just some sort of sick irony in that to me. I applied to the local Petsmart and Petco to help care for the animals and I never even got an interview, and yet when I go in, that's exactly what I see. Other people from my age group whose experience level with fish was having a goldfish as a kid. Though, I think someone in that area must be experienced because the fish are in better condition than most Petsmarts. Not awesome, but better. 

I love to learn about and care for animals, but it seems like people like me getting hired at pet stores are a rarity.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Reccka said:


> There's just some sort of sick irony in that to me. I applied to the local Petsmart and Petco to help care for the animals and I never even got an interview, and yet when I go in, that's exactly what I see. Other people from my age group whose experience level with fish was having a goldfish as a kid. Though, I think someone in that area must be experienced because the fish are in better condition than most Petsmarts. Not awesome, but better.
> 
> I love to learn about and care for animals, but it seems like people like me getting hired at pet stores are a rarity.


I agree. I was planning on applying at petco and petsmart after i graduate college so I could have a full time job to pay my bills until I find some job I REALLY want. But honestly, I don't think I'll get hired because they don't care if you know about fish or not.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Yeah. That seems to be the case. They seem to care way more about getting people for customer service than for actual pet care. I guess it's good I don't work there anyway. They'd probably hate me for wanting to change the water in the cups so often.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Reccka said:


> Yeah. That seems to be the case. They seem to care way more about getting people for customer service than for actual pet care. I guess it's good I don't work there anyway. They'd probably hate me for wanting to change the water in the cups so often.


I don't know about costumer service.... I always get super rude people. I'll occasionally ask questions I already know the answer to just to test them and they act like it annoying that I'm even talking to them. They also get annoyed if i can't find something and I ask where something is.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

It must vary from store to store then. My local Petsmart seems to follow customer service protocol exactly. Always greeted at the door, always asked if I need help every time they spot me. I did meet the manager for a second when I applied and he did seem like a stickler for rules. 

It always sort of amuses me because they all sound so obviously rehearsed and say the same exact phrases.


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## OspreyWing (Aug 24, 2014)

The local petco told my mom that bettas would be fine with room-temperature water.
And unfortunately, my mom believed them over me, and I actually did research before buying my lovely dragon scale betta, Winston!


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