# Whats the best sized tank fora betta



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Hello everyone. I hope someone can help me out. I have a betta who is sick. He had finrot and it came back once he started healing. I've called petco and an aquarium vet who both told me that the size of the tank could be part of the reason he's getting sick. That its big and empty and could be stressing him out and that he should be in a gallon or so tank or even in a fish bowl. Is that truely better for them or should i leave him in the 5 gal tank? I'll admit atm i have only 2 plants in there but i ordered more and they should be here soon. The only reason i got a 5 gal tank is i read on line that WAS the best for them, but all the feedback i'm getting from the pet-store and the vet is that 5 gals is too much. If i need a smaller tank i can buy one at my job they sell 1 1/2 gal tanks and i could easly set it up and get it running on a tray (Dont know what i'll do with the 5 gal tank) but anyways. Some advice would be great


----------



## MandiNicole (Apr 13, 2013)

I have a 2 gallon tank for my male betta and he seems quite comfortable. I have him a plastic plant in his tank for him to swim into when he gets nervous. Do you have any thing he can hide behind in the 5 gallon?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

For some Bettas..yes, IMO/E the tank can be too big. You have to remember that the long fin male delicate long heavy fins are man made. Often the long fin male haven't been in a container much bigger than the temporary cups you buy them in-and rarely with any type of water movement since they are cupped for grow out.

Some long fin males-not all-can have problems in larger tanks-especially filtered tanks-The well meaning hobbyist thinking bigger filtered tanks will make the Betta thrive-when it sometimes-not every time can backfire-they get stressed and this in turn can compromise the immune response, it can sometimes cause neurotic behaviors like tail biting, glass surfing. Sometimes you will start to see tattered fins and blown fins due to using them to swim in larger tanks and/or from the filter/water movement.

With some of the more delicate long fin males-you have to slowly build them up so they can thrive in larger filter tanks by going in steps-slowing acclimating over time-Along with good nutrition and tannins to help strengthen, toughen fins, scales...etc.....

Not all long fin males have these type of fin problems with larger filtered tanks and even then it is just cosmetic-but some can and it can be so depressing when our new long fin males beautiful flowing long fins start to tatter-get shorter, he stop eating and hides in a corner or start tail biting or glass surfing-then a dreaded secondary infection shows up that he can't fight due to the compromised immune response from the stress.....All due to a large filtered tank.....it can and does happen.....

Here is a link to an old thread I wrote some time back when I was a moderator here that you might find interesting and hopefully healpful.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=78317


----------



## iSaliena (Aug 18, 2013)

I moved my Betta from a 1 gallon to a 10 gallon and added tank mates.. he seems soooo much happier


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Mandi he does have stuff to hide behind. ATM i have atleast 4 plants in the tank all grouped up so he can hide and sleep in them. I just grouped them up now after i removed the castle i had in the middle of the tank.

Old personally i was afraid of that. I'm not sure how long he was kept in a small contanter before he was transported to my job. He was fine for a few weeks before the tail-rot set in and now seems to be spreading to another fin and returning to his tail fin which is depressing. He was stored in unsantary condtions in a 'fish garden' at my job and could be sick. 

I'm not sure what glass surfing is but i think he maybe doing that. At times i see him swim up and down the glass mostly on the right hand side of the tank. I want him to be happy. He also does have long flowing fins..well he use too before they started to rot off for some reason. I've been treating him with betta-fix and i added aquarium salt. On saturday I'm gonna do a full water change again and see if that could help him out. I also didntk now theyre fins are man made. Seems horrable to do that to a living creature. They're bigger than his body when i saw them i wondered how he got around but he seems to be able to swim with them so thats good. I've also notested since i grouped up the plants he's been staying on that side of the aquraium. Saddly he's still resting on the rocks and i wish he wouldnt 

I've also been thinking i may have a 5 gal tank but it can also be used as a turaraium. If needed i could only put like 3 gals in there and lower the filter so it can still firate the water. Could that help him if the tank is too big?


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Try to do more water changes and see if it will help to perk him up. I am not sure how much and how often you change his water before?
Since he is sick i would turn off the filter and try to do more water changes. Do 3- 50% water changes about 2-6 hrs apart. Then do another full water changes about 4 -6 hrs apart from the last 50% water change.
Stop betta fix it very easy to overdose and it harmful for bettas labyringh organs. So do all water changes to get rid of the betta fix and salt.
Salt has antibacterial affect but you need to use right dosage though and duration.
How much and how long you been adding the salt? 
Is he still eating? 
What food you feeding him with?
If he is eating i would recommend to go and buy frozen blood worms , it enriched in protein and good for the immune system.
What kind of water conditioner are you using?
Did you ever check your water to see if you have ammonia in your tap water?
And you can lower the water so it will be easier for him to swim up for the air and take out the filter for now.
There is a lot of factors that betta can get sick...but i think now you need to try to get him better. 
Also i just read Oldfishlady thread after i put my post and it also a lot of helpful information there.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Before he got sick i never did i had no knowledge of the cycle ppl talk about i do now and i've thought about what to do with Fishy and i desided to get him a hospital tank This way i can do daily 50% water changes and clean any poop or food that falls to the bottom. In that tank i can keep the filter from running and add salt. 

The last time i added salt was last week. I havent touched the water because of the betta-fix which did crap for him. 

I'm using Prime water conditoner the biggest ? i have is the salt. If hes in a 1 1/2 hosptal tank how much salt should i put in? Someoen said 1 tea-spoon per gal.
He is eatting, i've been giving him dryed brine shrimp. One a day and he gobbles it up.


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

How much of the aq salt per gall you was adding?
How long you was treating him with salt?
Do you have stress coat? Stress coat has Aloe Vera in it and helps with healing.
About filter , even if he would be in 5 gall you can go without the filter. I have 5 gall i keep it without the filter only because it easier for me to do regular water changes.
Aquarium salt you can use 1tsp/gall up to 3tsp/gall. In 1 1/2 gall tank i would do daily water changes. But first do a few 50% water changes so you don't shock him with water difference. 
And before you use salt again tell us how long and how much you been using. Salt is helpful with mild fin rot but you can not overdose it as it will affect the kidneys. You can use reuse salt again though if you finished it 7 days ago. 
You always need to pre mix it and make sure it dissolved before you adding it in the tank. You can start with 1 tsp/gall and slowly increase it to 3 tsp/gall in 12 hrs period. Or just add 1 tsp/gall first day of the treatment.
2 tsp/gall second day 
3tsp/gall day 3
You can treat with salt up to 14 days , no longer than that. 
About food try also frozen food really recommending and the best pellets are
http://www.bigalspets.com/betta-formula-1-mm-semi-floating-pellets-50-g.html

http://www.petco.com/product/116563...ne-_-1483889&gclid=CIeP_N-DlbkCFYuk4AodmHkAZQ

Do daily 100% water changes after you do a few 50%. 
Very important to acclimate your betta to the new water


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Here is a few variations that's pretty simple:
1. can have betta in the changing cup with about 15% of the water and keep adding small amount of the new water about every 5 min for about 5-6 times -this way you he will get used to the temperature

2. Note the temperature of the water.

Using a plastic cup, scoop him, along with some of his water, into the cup.
Clean out the tank. Refill with water at the SAME temp. Be sure to add the correct amount of water conditioner.
Float his cup in the tank for about 15 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
Add a SMALL amount of NEW water to the cup. (Several tablespoons, or about 1.5 ounces.)
Let his cup float for about 10 min. (Study during this time. If he sits longer, it's OK.)
If the cup starts to fill too much, remove a SMALL amount of water from the cup. Discard it.
Repeat steps 5-7, until about an hour has passed. (If he sits longer because you're studying, that's OK.)
Gently release him into the tank.

3. To do a water change, use a little cup like a plastic solo cup - this cup must be only for him and have never been used with soap or other chems. Scoop him up in this cup (keep him in the cup about 1/4 full of water - it doesn't need to be much because he won't be in it for long) and leave him in the cup while you change his water. To do the 50% use a turkey baster - dedicated only to him that has never seen soap or chems - and drag it through the gravel and try to suck as much of the poop out as possible, in addition to 50% of the water. Use a thermometer under the running tap to get it to be the same temp as the water that is normally in his tank. When the thermometer says the flowing tap is the right temp, fill back up his tank. At this point, add the conditioner (dose for how much water you change - if you change half the water you add half gallon worth of conditioner, If you do a 100% water change dose for the full gallon change). Float his plastic cup with him in it in the new water. Slowly add a couple tablespoons of the new water into his cup every 10 minutes for at least an hour. Finally, dump him in gently but try to get as little of the old cup water back into the tank as possible. When you do the weekly 100% you will do mostly the same thing except empty his tank fully and rinse everything in it very well under warm water but never use soaps or chemicals. Once it's fully cleaned/rinsed you can refill it and repeat the cup/acclimate phase.

4. When I change the water I put him in the cup I got him in then I take everything out of the tank, rinse everything with warm tap water. Then I put everything back in the tank, fill it with dechlorinated new water, and then turn the heater on. When the tank water is the same as the cup water , then take the dirty cup water out and a little at a time and put clean tank water in the cup. After that I put the cup in the tank and he swims out.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Thank you i'm gonna do that it would be less stressful for him to do so. I have some dixie cups i can use to put him in but if needed i have plastic cups around the house as well. It sounds like putting him in a dixie cup would be less stressful and i can float it in the hospital tank. The biggest problem i have is should i put the heater in the hospital tank?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

How much of the aq salt per gall you was adding? i added one tea-spoon

How long you was treating him with salt? This is the only thing i've used

Do you have stress coat? Stress coat has Aloe Vera in it and helps with healing. No i'm unsure what that is. 

i'm gonna use ur dixie cup idea atm i have his hospital tank set up and i'm heating up the water i'm gonna put him in the dixie cup and float it in there so he can use to that temp i'm trying to make it like the water in his 5 gal tank. This way i can do the 50% water changes at lot easyer. I also did add one tea-spoon of salt to help him out as well.


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Ok 1 1/2 gall tank. One tsp not enough. Add 2 tsp/gall next water changes. 2tsp/gall for your 11/2 gall tank is 3tsp. So next time you do 50% water change add 3tsp of the aq salt. Then following day increase dose to 3 tsp per gallon so for your tank (1 1/2 it will be 4.5tsp/gall) Do daily 50% water changes but eventually you need to do full water change . Do full water change every 4 days. And use aquarium salt 3tsp/gall no longer then 12 days.
Try to buy frozen blood worms and good pellets. If you see API stress coat or any other brand you can add it to his tank. But do not add full dose of it as it also water conditioner and you already using Prime. You can ass a few drops of the stress coat.


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

of course you adding only half of the dose if you doing 50% of the water with each water change.
Give us update


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i plan on it. So far i can see more clear stuff between his fins than i can see black. it doesnt look like much more of his fins have fallen off since thursday which maybe a good thing. What I'm not happy about is the fact his one gal tank even wraped in towels almost fell out of the green last night due to the fact i cant use a heater. SO i'm gonna do what Netupes-mom sugested and put the hosptial tank in the 5 gal tank so he will be warm. I have a 4" terra-cotta pot i can put in the tank and rest the the hospital tank ontop of it. I also think i have clips so i can clip it onto the tanka s well. the biggiest issue i'll haveis i need to put the termomenter in the 5 gal tank and slowly warm it up so he doesn't go into shock.


----------



## NozzALa (Apr 10, 2013)

About 2.5 to 5 gallons.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Update: i removed enough water from my five gal to put the one gal tank in it but they'res a 20* temp diffrence. SO i shut the heatr off in the 5 gal and will let the water cool down before i put the hospital tank inside


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

what is the temperature without the heater? If it 76* it perfect. Even 74-75* is fine. 
And you can also buy see through tupperware so it would be easier for you to float in the 5 gall tank.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

He's at 70* which is BAD! I got some clamps to clamp the hospital tank inside the 5 gal tank. it sits perfectly on the terra-cotta pot and with the clamps in there the tank won't move much either


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I had another question. I'm gonna clamp his hospital tank inside of his 5 gal tank so he cam stay warm. Atm his water temp is at 72* because i can't put a heater in the one gal tank. If i put him in the 5 gal tank (in this hosptal tank) would that 

A) affect the cycling of the tank

b)Could the ammoina in the 5 gal tank hurt fishy in the 1 gal tank?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

QUick question the tank is at 77* the one gal tank is at 72* is it ok to put the hopistal tank in the main tank with a 6* differnce or will that harm him? 

Nights comming the temps gonna drop in the house i don't want the fish to die due to exposeure


----------



## betta80888 (Aug 16, 2013)

bigger is better


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Abawhite2021 said:


> I had another question. I'm gonna clamp his hospital tank inside of his 5 gal tank so he cam stay warm. Atm his water temp is at 72* because i can't put a heater in the one gal tank. If i put him in the 5 gal tank (in this hosptal tank) would that
> 
> A) affect the cycling of the tank
> 
> b)Could the ammoina in the 5 gal tank hurt fishy in the 1 gal tank?


If you put hospital tank in the 5 gall tank it would not affect cycling. 
If there is ammonia high in your 5 gall it will not affect the hospital tank in any way, unless the water from 5 gall will get in the hospital tank.


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Abawhite2021 said:


> QUick question the tank is at 77* the one gal tank is at 72* is it ok to put the hopistal tank in the main tank with a 6* differnce or will that harm him?
> 
> Nights comming the temps gonna drop in the house i don't want the fish to die due to exposeure


It fine to put hospital tank if it 72* in the 5 gall tank with temp 77*. The hospital tank should slowly get warmer. It will be gradual temperature change so it fine.

The terra-cotta pot that you put in the tank is it aquarium safe? I am not sure , find out before you will decide to put your betta back in that tank with those pots. I would think you rinse them before you put them there? And if you will decide to put betta back in 5 gall make sure you check the water parameters and do a water changes too.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh i plan on it! Atm im trying to get a cycle going in my 5 gal tank so when i put him back in hes in a heatly and stable invorment. I will not be leaving the terra-cotta pot in there with him. As i'm not 100% sure its fishy safe. Its mearly something high to rest the hospital tank at. ATM his hospital tank is at anice 78* and i plan on leaving it there. 

I did wash the terra-cotta pot befor i put it in as well.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Well if it not aquarium safe then you will need to do a full water change to insure that nothing leached in the tank , in the gravel though.
So you decided to keep him in his 5 gall tank and trying to cycle it. Not sure if you had the links from Oldfishlady. I am going to post them for you, i think you can find a lot of tips in there. First link for fishin cycle though. Do you want me to find for fishless cycle?
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=115758


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

hey how he doing?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Sry i know i havent been on much our dog suddenly got very ill and passed away and i was dealing with that. Fishy has gotten a bit better the baterical fin-rot is gone but saddly he got a secondary fungal infection. i got some jungl fungus killer and i've been treating him with that. Since ive done that he hasn't lost anymore of his fins but i can see fugus on his tailfin. If the jungle doesnt work i was gonna try API fugus killer. Ill keep an eye on him


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

So sorry for you dog I know how sad it is, i had to put down my 16 years old dog . She had kidneys failure. I was devastated but you know its just cycle of life . I thought that my dog and your dog had a good and happy life. We took another dog from the shelter. I decide that it time to rescue another life.

About fungal infection. Are you sure it is fungus? Fungus is white growth, may look like ling strands of fine hair or small patches, fuzzy. Can be gray,white or milky.

Also fish can have excessive slime coat due to infection , which you was treating him from. Also he might have bit of the slime coat from using salt. 
Slime coat comes off the tips of the fins and sometimes the body. Slime coat usually slimy,clear like a mucus. It a natural fish protection against of the disease. Fish will act otherwise the same. 

Be careful with all those medications , you don't want to over medicate him. And do not use API until you sure it really fungus. Do you still have him in the hospital tank? I don't remember how big it is. You already using medications so finish it and see how he doing and keep him in the super clean water. I don't remember if you using stress coat which is good idea. Stress coat and salt that you was using all together also can promote slime coat.
Is he acting healthy?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Yeah he suddenly had a hard time breathing, they thought our dog had phemiona(sp) but his lungs gave out with-in a week. There was nothing we could do. We decided that he's the last dog where gonna have for a long while now. 

Yet back to fishy. I'm sure its fungus i saw some of it on his tail-fin it was a milky color i thought it was fin-regrowth until i got home from work and saw that the part of this tail that had the milky stuff on it was GONE! All that was left was some red strands that fell off a few days later. Thats when i did some research relized it was fungus and got some jungle fugus killer to help kill the fugus. I'm not using stress-coat but i am using aquarium salt with his water changes. (i have a one gal tank) and he is acting healthy when i put his food in there he attacks it visiously! Hes acting like a betta-pig


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How long you using salt? I think someone already mentioned that you can use it only for 14 days? 
Are you using 1 tsp/gall or more? 
Are you still treating with medications?
I just want to recommend be careful and don't over medicate him. I hope the medications you been using is enough and you don't have to treat him with another medication. The medications are really stressful on bettas kidneys . And like i said that he might have some extra slime coat which is normal reaction to treatment.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I've used the salt for 10 days and i will do a 100% water change in 4 days when i need to remove the meds anyways. I do not wan to over medicate him but there is fungus on his tail-fin and i do want to kill him. Yes i am still medicating him but only for 4 days with the jungle fungus killer. before that i was treating him for baterical fin-rot doing 50% daily water changes. I also thought the white stuff was a slime coat until his fin fell off.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Did it fell off after you finished aq salt treatment? Or during the treatment? 
Also when you do a water changes do you still see the fungus on him or it pilling off? Is there any possibilities to post a picture? And make sure water is not too worm because it will get worse with the warmer temperature.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

It fell off during the salt treatment. 
From what i can see on him its starting to go away i'm hoping this treatment will be the last treatment i'll give him. 
As for the water temp i'm trying to keep it at around 75* so its not TOO cold for fishy and not TOO hot that more fugus grows as well.


----------



## peeptoad (Jul 19, 2013)

Oldfishlady said:


> For some Bettas..yes, IMO/E the tank can be too big. You have to remember that the long fin male delicate long heavy fins are man made. Often the long fin male haven't been in a container much bigger than the temporary cups you buy them in-and rarely with any type of water movement since they are cupped for grow out.
> 
> Some long fin males-not all-can have problems in larger tanks-especially filtered tanks-The well meaning hobbyist thinking bigger filtered tanks will make the Betta thrive-when it sometimes-not every time can backfire-they get stressed and this in turn can compromise the immune response, it can sometimes cause neurotic behaviors like tail biting, glass surfing. Sometimes you will start to see tattered fins and blown fins due to using them to swim in larger tanks and/or from the filter/water movement.
> 
> ...


This is a VERY informative post and this is what I think may be the problem for my male VT. Of course, when I got him he was in a tiny cup with only a few ounces of water. He was immediately moved into a 1/2 gal bowl and, about 2 weeks later, into a 5-gallon tank... and that's when the problems may have started. He has always been extremely active (I would say hyper-active really). Once he got into that 5-gal tank he was moving non-stop (and I mean, literally, non-stop. I have insomnia periodically and I was waking up at 12am-1am and there he was, still glass-surfing and roaring around in the pitch darkness). Still, he was in the 5-gal tank for almost 2 months before the problems started, but I do think he was physically traumatized somehow (sudden problems that started when I went away last weekend). I probably will never know for sure and I'm not even sure I can save him at this point. :-(
He is much less active in the 1/2 bowl (where he is now due to fin rot, which unfortunately I think may be turning into body rot), however he is also sick right now. My only real concern about the bowl is being unable to heat it properly...


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

peeptoad try to make new thread about it so more people to see and can help.
Give more information 
1/2 gall tank you need to do daily water changes. Did you tried aquarium salt? If you did then how much of it and how long?
What is the temperature ?
What is the symptoms?
Is he eating?
How long you go you bought him?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

And Abawhite2012 yes i also hope that the medications will be enough. If you think he is still didn't recovered you can use salt treatment again. I did it for one of the fish who had severe fin rot. I treated with salt , Triple Sulfa he was not back to normal and i used aq salt again. The last treatment improved his condition dramatically.


----------



## peeptoad (Jul 19, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> peeptoad try to make new thread about it so more people to see and can help.
> Give more information
> 1/2 gall tank you need to do daily water changes. Did you tried aquarium salt? If you did then how much of it and how long?
> What is the temperature ?
> ...


I made a thread earlier this week, but didn't get any responses... I can bump that other thread so I don't clutter up this one.
To answer your questions here (and then I will bump the other one):


1/2 gall tank you need to do daily water changes. Did you tried aquarium salt? *he's been in a 1/2 gal hospital tank for 5 days with 100% daily water changes. Normally is in a 5-gal filtered tank. I have been using aq salt (1/2 tsp per 1/2 gal) daily with the water changes.*
If you did then how much of it and how long? *Been 5 days so far...*
What is the temperature ? *his normal tank is 78-80 degrees. The hospital tank is not heated, but has been in the mid-low 70s range all week.*
What is the symptoms? *terrible fin condition (look necrotic and his pelvic fins are almost gone), quiet/inactive and he occasionally "scratches" himself on the sides/bottom.*
Is he eating? *yes, but not like he normally does. He spits food out a lot. Not eating as much.*
How long you go you bought him? *he was given to me as a gift on July 14 this year.*


*edit: I bumped the thread I started in the "disease" forum... thanks.*


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would put him in his 5 gall tank so you can maintain the temperature. Don't put anything in the tank just the heater and the thermometer so you can monitor the temperature. Do not use the filter. Try to increase temperature gradually to 76 for now and then will see how he doing. Increase the temperature gradually about 1-2* in an hour. Also what you can do -heat the 5 gall tank up to 78* and put him in the container and let it float in the 5 gall heated tank. You can use also his hospital tank . If his hospital tank is heavy and sinking you can buy see through tupperware and stick the sides of it to the tank walls. Do what ever is easier for you , so you can do daily water changes(100%) Continue with the salt, don't stop. Increase the salt to 3tsp per gallon. Usually bettas scratching when they have external parasites.
Does he looks like the has white spots or looks like he has sprinkles with the salt? Or did he look like that before you treated him with salt? 
Does he has white fluffy, cottony like strings or patches on his body ?
Shine the light on the betta’s body is it looks like it is covered with a fine gold or rust mist?
Is it possible for you to post the picture?
Sorry i have to log out but if you can give more details so we can figure out what is going on. I have problem with my computer and hopefully will figure out why,but i did ask someone else to help you.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> peeptoad try to make new thread about it so more people to see and can help.
> Give more information
> 1/2 gall tank you need to do daily water changes. Did you tried aquarium salt? If you did then how much of it and how long?
> What is the temperature ?
> ...


 
i'm not sure if this about my fishy anymore since someone else has the same problem i do but i'll reanswer the posts.

I was doing daily 50% water changes until a few days ago due to the jungle fungus killer. 
I did try aqaurium salt but it didnt help with the secondary fungal infection.
Its 75* in his tank.
He's eatting like a pig.
I've had him almost 2 months.

Saddly today i've seen more of the milky stuff and part of his bottom fin looks thin to me. Why idk but i'm afraid i won't be able to heal him  If needed i'll try another week of salt treatment and then maybe some API fungus killer. I know i got him ill from a kmart and i am trying to help him. All of the friends he was shipped with are long dead and i do know if his fin-rot turns into body rot and i use the clove oil to end his life that much like our dog i tried and atleast unlike his friends he was happy/warm and fed for 2 months  But hopefully the jungle stuff will work but from what i saw today...i dont think thats the case.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry for all confusing i was trying to help peeptoad with all those questions that i ask but now i want to ask you

how long you have to treat him according to the instructions?
Is there any way you can post his picture?
When you do water changes are those milky stuff pilling off or still there?
So you was doing 50% all the time?
Did you ever did 100% water change?
You can just quote and put your answer right across my question.
I think you doing good job and the fact that he is eating is really good though. Is his tail has discolored black edges ? 
Do you see any clear transparent edges ?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

how long you have to treat him according to the instructions? 2morrow is the last day of the jungle meds i need to do a full water change on him 2morrow.

Is there any way you can post his picture? yep i can make a video 2morrow of him and post it from my you tube account since i have the day off.
When you do water changes are those milky stuff pilling off or still there? The milky stuff seems to come and go. It seems to form and what-ever part of the fin it forms on is gone a few days later

So you was doing 50% all the time? Yes 

Did you ever did 100% water change? Yes

You can just quote and put your answer right across my question.
I think you doing good job and the fact that he is eating is really good though. Is his tail has discolored black edges ? No most of it is all gone.

Do you see any clear transparent edges. Yeah in the same areas the milkly stuff is in.

I do hope i can help him


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

video will be helpful. I just think that the part of the tail is fallen off because its the dead tissue after the treatment . And you saying that you can see the clear , transparent edges which means that its regrowth. I just talk to someone who also confirmed that it can happened and also she said that if fish is dark colored then the slime coat could look milky. So if you will post the picture it will help ....

And he is lucky to have you. You don't need to use clove oil i hope , sound like he is pretty happy eating like a pig


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i am gonna try to make a video but i relized my mothers camera is dead....again....so i'm charging it atm. Since i just took a good look at fishy and part of his bottom fin is missing now too  that makes me sad but i'm still trying!


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok will wait for the pictures, hopefully you will able to post them which i really think can help.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> Ok will wait for the pictures, hopefully you will able to post them which i really think can help.


 
the video is still uploading but it should be avaible here shortly. I hope it can help.

http://youtu.be/wDoF3UPf6v4 

69%


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

sffd


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

very sorry the video is not really clear...but he is acting very healthy . I could not see the fins clearly though. But when the video on 2 minutes and 5 seconds i can see that i think it tail biting, i think on caudal fins i saw ''u'' shape bite. Since he is acting healthy and eating do not use any more medications on him. I really think its a tail biting. You can try to do another video but make it clear so we can see his fins. But so far i didn't see, and i think he don't have discolored , black,"smudged" edges on his fins. And now that i remember you wrote before you went to work and came back ,and the part of his tail fell off, i think he biting it. Those ''u'' shape mark is bettas teeth marks.
Just keep water super clean , i would add stress coat because it has Aloe Vera in it and good for the healing.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Alright i'm sorry if the video was bad its the only camera i have i was trying to make everyone see that white mikly stuff on his fins. I woke up today and they'res more of it...why idk when i did a 100% water change last night 
Someone else also said he could be tail biting, but i never saw him to do...its so hard for me to tell. I found a link http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_...cation.html#TB
it decribes what the stuff on his fins looks like it me i also have some maracyn 2 i could use if needed. I also have some idian almond leaves i can use as well.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

The link didn't work...but wait before you use any more medications. Sometimes too much medications can be as bad if you would not treat sick fish at all. So that milky stuff that you see is it only at the edges of his fins or anywhere else?
When you do the water change is it still there after a water change?
Look at him before water change and after and see if it make the difference after you do a water change. And see if you see it anywhere on his body.
And is it stringy like a thin hair? 
I don't know i still think that its a slime coat. And when i spoke to LittleBlueFishlets about it she said that on dark fish like yours slime coat can be milky not clear. 
So there is no way you can make another video of him?
Still do daily water changes though , you can alternate 50 and 100% water changes. See what is going on with that milky stuff with water changes


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

the white stuff on his fins are on the edges of his fins but the fin near the white stuff gets very thin. it starts to get holes in it and then falls off. It also happens randomly sometimes after a water change sometimes days after. I'll admit i've only done about 4 100% changes with alot of 50% water changes. 
I've been hoping it was just the slime coat but if it was why would the part with the slime coat fall off?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

That might just have been dead tissue which fell off after treatment. Lot of times, once the infection clears up, the affected part of the fin turns dark and falls off. It sounds like his fish's fin just turned "milky" which I'm thinking is the same thing; just dead tissue flaking off. 
But i also think even sure that he is biting his tail . So i think it also can be the reason. 
Open this link and see magnified pictures of betta's bitten tails.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...me.1.69i57j0.32422j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Is there any possibilities you can make the clear video again? It will really explains a lot. I just don't want you to treat him again for no reason .


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Hm those pictures look alot like his fins its kinda weird almost. 
yeah his fins do turn milky its weird tho how it shows up out of no-where tho. Thats what i can't understand at all.
I'll also try to make another video today. Idk if it will turn out any better but i can try.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Try to make a clear video so we can see those white substance on his fins. And he does has the ''u'' shape betta teeth on his tail, i am sure , you can see it even on that blurry video. 
Some bettas can even bite the tail on daily basis. Some not. And its not necessarily that you will see him doing it.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I just cleaned fishys tank. I added in 2 small plants for him since i was reading about tail biting and it says they get bored. I thought adding something new could make him intrested and i also put in a little bit of a idian almond leave. its floating on the top and fishy seems to like to poak it with his nose. Saddly while i was changing him i could see more of that milky white stuff. I know i'm gonna come home from work 2morrow and find that part of his fin missing  but i won't give up until hes floating upside down in the tank!

I also took another video idk if it helps but i wanted to try.
i also took a few pictures and i'll inclue them in the post below


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

http://i40.tinypic.com/297mzd.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2q9exhk.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/16hnllj.jpg

Video---- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfLB7Cn-VY&feature=youtu.be


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't be sad he looks and acting happy. I know it upsetting when something wrong with our loved pets, but you know when you have pets, kids or any of us can get sick or just have simple problem any time. So don't be sad , he is happy. 
I do think that its tail biting . Some times or a lot of time its difficult to say if they will stop biting , but like you said you have plants in his tank to destruct him. With tail biting you just need to keep water super clean to prevent the infection. 
I would NOT treat him yet. Lets see how he doing . You can buy medications just so you have them in case you need them. I forgot what kind do you have?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i have for meds, 
betta-fix.
maracyn 2
jungle fungus killer 
api funran 2

he does seem happy and he eats like a pig. I'll still do the daily water changes and add the aquarium salt. I also put a bit of a idian almond leave in the tank since i read on the link u gave me that it can help calm bettas down. I've still seen the white stuff is on his tail but unlike last time it didnt turn black and then the parts fell off. I'll contunie to hold my breath and keep an eye on him


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

See how he doing and go from that. If you think he is worse or has fin rot then treat him. But again if he is biting the tail and has those ''u'' shapes marks , + you saw those pictures i gave you link with tail biting, and if his fins are NOT darkened, black,''smudged'' and if he is acting healthy and nothing change in his behavior or eating habits you I WOULD NOT want to treat him. Because if it biting all you need just keep water clean to prevent infection. I still not sure if it just a slime coat or bacterial infection. You can keep the video or pictures daily for comparison to see if it worse.

DO NOT USE bettafix or any medicine with ''fix'' in it, return it if you can. Its has tea tree oil in it which is not good for the bettas labyrinth organs .
Api Furan 2 is good choice. This is how you need to use it:

If you use API Furan-2, the best way to dose this is to get a container that holds 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Add in the packet of medication and mix well. Now pour 1/2 cup of this medicated water into the tank. Change the water 100% every other day and redose the medication. Although it's best to mix up new medication for every dosage, you can save the medicated water for about two days if you need to.

I am so sorry i don't know why the videos are blurry. Is it a camera problem , can you make them more clear? Is it because you zooming to close ?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I'll try too record him without zooming in. Idk if i'll get to it tonight i just got home sorta late but meh...life... I also hope doing a 50% water change won't e a problem...since i forgot to buy water..wow i'm on a roll 2night . So far the white mikly stuff is still on fishy's fins but for some reason its making his fin looks spread out and thin around the edges. They're also these clear parts in the mikly stuff outlined in black. (first time i've seen those) they look almost spikey which is very weird. 

What i plan on doing with the meds (since ur directions is 100% like whats on the box) if is i see the mikly stuff and the fin around it go away i'll treat him again with meds. If he is tail biting..idk how to stop it. I'm afraid i may need to leave him in his 1 gal hospital tank forever since its all i can really clean daily with ease


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

OK i did the 50% water change and i made a 2 part video. I combined both 2 mins videos into one 4 min video one filmed in the kitchen the other a bed room. IDK if the light difference helped but i figured since i was awake i might as well give it a shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRPRBPO2-nQ&feature=youtu.be


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

He is very beautiful and very fanny swimming around that thermometer. He looks very happy and acting very healthy i would not treat him with any medications , unless any other symptoms will persist. The video is good but i can't see any white stuff on his tail. But i still think he does bites his tail. You don't have to do daily water changes in his one gall tank when you done with salt. You can do 2-50% and 1-100% water changes a week in one gall . In his 5 gall without filter you can do 1-50 and 1-100% every 8 days. If you will cycle the tank then you need to about 1-50% and 1-25 a week with a gravel vacuuming and filter medica cleaning. 

So just enjoy him ans keep eye for any changes . I am thinking if that may be slime coat from the salt and from the biting. How long you doing salt? Do not continue longer than 10 days since he is acting very healthy and i think he is biting the tail.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I've been doing the salt for almost 10 days. The box says dont use it longer than 14 so i will need to stop so i dont hurt fishy too much. I dont want to make him worse. I'm also hoping that what i am seeing is maybe fin groath mixed with his slime coat. But as i said i'll keep an close eye on it. Also if he is tail biting would moving him into a room with more activity help? 

My mother said if i needed i could move the whole 5 gal tank out of my room and put it in our living room so he can watch everyone and our cat along with tv. If i see hes still tail biting by the U shaped chunks missing from his fins i think i may do that. Even tho i really liked him in my room...i'd like him to be happy.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

ok i just got home and i notested alot of the white-stuff is now missing...why idk. Yet the clear stuff still surronded by black is still there. Im gonna continue to keep an eye on fishy and if he loses more of his fins i will use that furan 2 stuff


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree but only if it not a bites. If he loses his fins because he bites it ,then do not treat him. Are you sure that black not his normal coloration. The video is good but i don't see the black and white stuff. I am trying to understand if it normal coloration.
See the link that i posted and see the pictures #3, 5, and 6 the fish has blackened edges which are normal pattern ...Do you think it looks like your betta has?

http://bubblesandbettas.blogspot.com/p/betta-breeds-tail-types.html


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

It does look something like those ones in the photos. its the fact its clear with black on it that is weird. it does make me think that maybe its fin re-growth but i do think my best bet is just to keep an eye on him, and keep up with the 50% daily water changes to keep things clean for him and i will not treat him if i see its U shaped bites. If he's missing fin and its jagged and smuged i'll use the meds and my mother did say if needed i can move him into the living room.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you don't use the filter do full water change once a week. I hope he will be ok and you don't have to treat him.
You know my bettas live pretty long but i always paranoid and check them all the time. You can worry and check on him to make sure he is ok, but also relax and enjoy him. Look like he enjoys more than you are lol I have 10 bettas now and i did had bettas died on me before. But only 2 of my bettas that i had before were doing what is yours betta doing, circling over that thermometer , it pretty funny .


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Lol yeah Fishy loves to show off for anyone who walks up to his tank. I know he wakes up before i do on my days off and my night shift and as soon as i get out of bed hes swimming around in circles and goes right to the top of the tank waiting to be fed. As soon as i drop that pellet into the tank (i now give him the sperectrium food) he attacks it. I thought for sure he was gonna try to jump into the top of his one gal tank! I also know that i'm a bit paraiod and i'll continue to keep an eye on him, after all the stress he had from getting put into that small vace and left in it for almost 2 months at my job i am worried about him. Saddly the last of his friends i saw him today he's very ill his fins are all white and i think he has velet. Poor thing needs really bad TLC i wanted to write a HELP ME sign and stick it to his vace. Yet back to happier news after Drake i'm kinda sick of saddness and death, but i do think Fishy has more fun looking and ineracting (as much as a fish can) than i do. I look at him and keeps aying are you ok? I'm gonna try to help you and he's like WEEEEE!!! Look at me swim around in circles! 

I'd also like to get him back into his 5 gal tank again. He seemed to really like it in there he would dask from side to side and i even got 2 extra large plants and a betta hammoc so he can sleep near the survace again, but i need to cycle that tank first before i can do anything. He is a pretty fish and compaired to his friend hes active and hes fat too lol. Yet as i said I will worry (10 bettas...wow thats alot!) My moms also said if hes bored i could buy him some tank mates but idk how that would go. I think maybe moving him into a diffrent room could help out alot. But i'll see, i'll keep an eye and if more of his fin falls off without a U shape i'll post it ASAP


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I feel bad about another betta 
Don't get any tank mates for him. 5 gall will not be enough for another fish , and when you bring new mates then the problems begin again. Bit 5 gall not enough any way. Don't worry he is not bored .
If you will buy any new decorations for his tank always rinse them with the water. Silk plants are fine. Betta hammock , i think old version has some kind of metal wire inside that can rust in the water and harm the betta so make sure its not there or you will have to take it out. 
Be careful with new decorations even if you buy them at the pet store , i read that some people had a problem with decorations been toxic . That is why my tank is so simple just silk plants, gravel and thermometr, and heater. I think this forum has a list of the dangerous decorations. I have store link somewhere....
I know i love my bettas too and i am talking to them and my husband laughing at me. 
About tank to cycle , i am not experienced since my tank are not cycled even 5 gall but i do have some links and explanations about fishin and fishless cycle. I don't remember if i gave you the links. Not sure if you need help but let me know i will find the links.
Keep us updated


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok, i feel bad for that fishy too but saddly i just looked a fishy and he has another chunk of his tail fin missing  it was there when i checked on him at 4 that part of his fin was there and now its missing. i changed his water and it wasn't in the tank. it also wasn't thin or had holes in it buts its just gone. its making me think should i treat him with meds again?! he proabably bit it off. That makes me very very sad. IDK what else to do with him. 

EDIT-Could buying colored ping pog balls and putting them in his tank give him somehting to play with? The part that is missing is deep in the fin but it is U shaped...making me think tail biting...again... / sigh


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i know you not to use any meds on the betta but i looked at him again and more than that u shaped chunk is mising. all his fin that had the mikly stuff around it fell off...AFTER i did a water change. All thats left is bits of stringy fin and all the meat in the middle is missing. I'm debating using the furan 2 after that happned. More than 50% of this tail fin is missing and i don't want it to hit his body and have him die.
what do u think?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If it tail biting which i think it is, Furan will not help. Is it really that close to the body? He just bit it so it not infected ,so i don't think anyone would recommend to treat with medications because it nothing to treat. We need to figure out how to stop him, which is very difficult and sometimes not possible. You know what ...when you do water change try to rearrange his decorations, try to change the angle of the tank, may be put another silk plant, may be its a good idea to move the tank, may be even put the toy outside of the tank (he might get look at it and get busy), i read some people even wrote something on the tank , make sure it erasable. I don't know what else. May be you think put background on the back of the tank.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I did put a new plant in there. I have 4 small betta silk plants and i've been roating them. I was thinking of getting some ping pong balls and putting one in the 1 gal tank and the others in the 5 gal so he can look at them. I do put toys infront of his tank so he can look at them and i rotate them daily. I just dont understand why for the 2nd time the part of his fin that had the mikly white stuff fell off again. its really confusing and depressing. I'm trying my best to help him and at times it seemd like i'm not


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You can try ping pong balls just make sure it aquarium safe.
Is he behaving the same? Do you want to make the video again so we can see how bad it is?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

edit : sry he does have alot of fin left but im worried he could lose all of his fins. It is about 50% gone from when i got him al most 2 months ago that is what i ment

yeah im gonna read the ping pog balls and see whats in them before i put them in there with him. He's still very very active before i shut the lights off for the night he was swimming around pretty happyly even tho all the miiky stuff and part of his tail fin was missing. I also am gonna make another video most likey when i get home from work 2morrow. Im sure you can see the chunk in the middle that is missing with ease. it really does look like some one took a bite out his tail.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

well it sound like it because if it would be fin rot it would be gradual . 
I did have tail bitter, somehow he didn't do it too often. He is 4 years old now, and he is sick now, i don't think he will live longer.... but he bit his tail about 6 times. Not even sure what made him bite or stopped biting . I actually never change anything in his tank. I think every fish is different so i can't compare. I had only a heater, silk plant, gravel and a few heater suction cups on the walls of the tank.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

it not gradual. I just woke up for work and found more of his fin is missing. All that left of the are is stands of red where blue was inbetween. I don't understand whats happening. His temp is a warm 76* hes still eatting, is active and all i've changed is i've added one more plant and took out another. I really really dont get this.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i'm moving fishy into our living room its more activey in there and he'll have more to watch. I also got some fishing lores and one that glows and put them in his 5 gal tank so he was watch them swim around. I also made a new video i'm sure you can see the hunk missing from his tail fin again. Hopefully moving him will help him stopping from biting his own tail since last night I SAW HIM do so! 

He kept swimming around the tank in circles and was looking at a red bit of flesh left behing himself and attacked it. I looked at him likw WTF?! Your hurting yourself you dumb fishy! Ah well...what else can i do?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vLQHujD0M8&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I moved fishy tank.. heres a shot 

http://i41.tinypic.com/r1wvmt.jpg


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

See how he doing in his new spot. Yes of course i saw the u shape bite on his tail. You gave him a lot of stuff to keep him busy , i don't think you can add anything else. See how he ding in the new spot. Sorry don't know what to say , you did everything right. Sometimes its really difficult to say what to do to stop them doing it and the only thing you need to keep water clean to prevent infection.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

yeah im gonna keep him in the 1 gal tank until i cycle the 5 gal and then im gonna move him back into the bigger tank. Im debating getting a small tank divider and putting it around the filter so he wont get hurt by that. Hopefully he'll like his new spot i found him watching me and the tv yesterday. I'll miss him in my bedroom but as i said they'res alot more going on in the living room as to ppl and toehr animals walking around. 

Ill keep his water as clean as i can.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes make sure filter not too strong for him. I am not experienced with filters , never had filter in any of my tanks.There is many ways to baffle it, and make it safe for him. If you will need help with that make a new thread so more people can see it. 
One thing and sorry if i am repeating myself, i don't remember if i said it. But make sure you do minimum of 50% water changes weekly in your cycle tank, clean the walls, vacuum the gravel and swish/rinse filter in the tank water weekly as it can gather a lot of gunk in it.

Good luck let us know how he doing.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I learned about the cycle process a month or so ago. So i need to do that before i put fishy back into the tank. I also did learn about the 50% weekly changes after fishy got fin-rot  I have a gravel vac and everything so i can keep his tank super clean.

As for Fishy i think hes happy in the living room. My dad was vacing the rugs and he was swimming around looking at what hes doing. Every time someone walks in or out of the living room fishy swims after them and watches them. I even saw him watching the TV set too! I also think im starting to get paradiod i swear i saw more black on his tail fin today but now that hes in the living room and not agaist a wall i'm finding it hard to see the right coloration of his tail. Its possable that its black or just blue like he is. I know that part of his tail is a part he bit off and it has bit of stringy flesh left on it. Its possable that flesh is dying but now i gotta keep an eye on that too! At-least his water temp is still at 76* and he ate his pellets like a betta-pig again lol Fishy also seems to like watching PPL and the TV. Yesterday i kept cathing him looking down at me on the couch and today he keeps staring at my dad! It is weird that hes not in my room anymore but heck if hes happy in the living room then im glad hes happy


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok so i put fishy in our living room and he seems to like it in there. Today he watched my father vac the rug. Fishy looks down at who-ever is on the couch and hes fasanated by our cat. he also seems to like watching tv and watching us walk in and out of the living room. 
I'm also debating a start to move him back into his 5 gal tank. I need to cycle it still since idk if its safe to put him back in that tank the way it is. I'm also unsure about the filter. I don't want him to get hurt under it. I've been debating getting a fish tank divider and putting it around the base of the filter so he cannot swim under it and get sucked up. 
Yet on happyer news i was looking at some of that mikly stuff still on fishys tail with the clear stuff outlined in black...i think what i'm seeing could be fin re-growth. The white stuff is the same shape as the chunk that was missing and the clear stuff lines up perfectly with the red streaks in his tail. if thats the case than thats a great sign. But I did find fishy doing something i dont like. He's been rubbing his belly agaist the bottom of the tank i read if they do that they could have a parasite but fishy doesnt have ick or velvet. Its possable that bump i saw on him before he got fin-rot or started to bite his tail or what-ever the reason is for his fins looking the way they do is it possable he has in interal parasite from eatting the roots of the plant he came with? IDK but i got him some anti-parasite food to give to him just in case. It could help it could do crap, but i think if i had ringworm or something i'd be stressed and bite my fins too.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i don't like that he is rubbing the belly. Keep him in the hospital tank for observation. You right usually if they do that its either the ich or velvet , or internal parasites. What kind of plant it is , i didn't know that they eat the rot i don't think it good though. Not really experience with that but never read that any one said that their betta eats roots of the plant. Also i don't remember that you mentioned the bump ....Where is the bump?

With internal parasites fish sometimes will have distended, discolored (grayish)stomach , the poop will be white, clear, broken white wormy, stringy shape. Usually if fish has internal parasites the his healthy will diteriorate pretty fast , also clamped fins, stop eating.

External parasites like you said fish will scratch him self and also would have white spots on the body or looks like the body sprinkled with salt. So keep eye on him.

About anti parasite food. When you do next water change you can take all gravel out and observe his poo if it the way i described above then give him that food. Also you can try to soak his food in the fresh squeezed garlic which is also preventative method for internal parasites.
Hmm i am wondering why he is scratching the belly? 

And also fish can bite the tail because something bothering him including ext parasites. So yes keep eye on him .

Sorry its 9 pages can you remind to me how long you have him?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

About cycling you can do fish- in cycle or fishless cycle and i do have a few links if you ever need it. One link that i have its from Oldfishlady about fishin cycle. 
But since we worry about him now i think its good idea to observe him in the smaller tank if you can keep the temp there.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I can hes inside the 5 gal tank in the 1 gal tank so his water will be warm. So far today he's still acting the same. I did get some anti-parasite food for him just incase he does have an interal parasite but all his droppings are brown they look almost like a long strand of brown-ish dog poop so idk. His hospital tank has no gravel and I'd rather be causious then have a dead fish. I did another water change on him today and put the small tank back inside his big tank in the living room. He seems to dash from side to side dragging his belly and bottom fin agaist the bottom of the tank. This was the first time i've seen him do that. For all i know he could of been showing off but i did read parasites make them do that. On the other hand he doesnt scratch agaist any of the plants just the same section of the bottom of his tank. He tore up part of his bottom fin pretty bad as well which bumbed me out. 
I also dont see any white bloches on him so idk if its ick or velvet but trust me i'm keeping an eye on him. I've had fishy for almost 2 months but hes only been out of the small vase he was in for a month or so since i had to buy a tank and everything else. He came with a pease lilly on top of his tank, the roots went into the tank and while he was at my job all the food the fish had was the roots of the plant. I'll find a photo. Its possable the plants could of had a parasite on them and he ate it. 



Cute thing today my mother was dusting his tank before i went to work and he kept swimming back and forth chacing the duster. My mom madea point to dust his tank just a bit longer as he swam from side to side like a mad fish.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

http://www.foundus.com/betta/BettaFishVase.jpg


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think his poo sound normal so i would think it not internal parasites. But what you described is kind of confusing to me. Yes watch him, make the video again if you see him doing that. I am curious how it look a like , i or other people might tell oyu if its normal fish behavior or something is wrong. 
Also the best thing for the external parasites is 88* and daily water changes . Constant 88* temp will sped up parasites cycle , make them fall faster so you can remove free swimming ich without hurting fish. Also ich and velvet using photosynthesis , meaning they will reproduce with light. So try keep him in dark. But please i don't want you to make paranoid since we already are. Just keep eye on the new behavior, water changes and if oyu can try to couch it on the video.

Yes live plant can carry ich, that is why i always write to everyone quarantine the plant. 
The picture that you show me is kind of scaring me though. Its too much roots in it, could hurt the betta. 
Also is the water from the bigger tank 5 gall get in the smaller tank? Is the water in the 5 gall tank clean? Not sure if you recently change it .

Also sorry i don't remember did you took the plant out or its still in the tank? If it is i would take it out . You don't have to throw that out though. Just put it in the water. Even if it is carry ich it will die without a host.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I'll start with the plant. Fishy is NO where NEAR that plant anymore. That is a set up he came in and lived in for a month or so at my job. When i got him I kept him in the vace until i put him in the 5 gal tank i think July 25th. The plants across the room sitting on a shelf. It's very healthy. I just wanted to you to see the inviroment he came from. No water from the 5 gal tank can get into the 1 gal at all. With the hospital tank inside the 5 gal tank it sticks out of it a good foot or two. My dad keeps saying it looks like the fish is gonna swim out of the tank the way the hospital tank is. I also think maybe he's not rubbing his belly agaist the bottom. What i think hes doing is looking down at the person sitting on the couch. He didnt do it at all yesterday but i'll continue to keep an eye on him. Its not hard now..all i gotta do is look up lol


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

UPDATE!!!

Fishy seems stable. I just did a 75% water change on him and he seems normal. he hasnt lost any more of his fins (knocks on wood) and that white stuff i've been seeing IS fin regrowth! His tail fin is now growing back. He's also very happy and super active in our living room. if hes not watching us he watching the TV set so he's seriouly entertained. I forgot at my job he spent all day watcing people walk back and forth, for a fish i guess thats never a dull moment. Hopefully fishy will continue to improve. Also the API cure all for parasites came today...you never know i may need it. 

I'll post again, hopefullu with more good news!


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh good !!!! I am glad , he is busy now , too much going on in the room lol
It always good to have medications on hands. I have all kind of med's and salts.
Will wait for the update


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i have a bit of a question. I want to change fishy's water today. Its getting yucky and he needs his whole one gallons replaced (i have to get the furan 2 out of the water) but the water i have is too cold and idk how to heat it up. How do you go about doing it? My mother sugested i bowl some water and then put the one gal contaner inside the warm water but that could make it TOO hot. DO you have any sugestions?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry i missed your question did you change the water already. How he doing? Sorry remind to me as i remember his one gall inside of the 5 gall right?
5 gall kept the stable temp right?
What you can do is put his tank in the heated 5 gall tank. You can put him in the zip lock back with a little bit of his original water . Fill up the one gall with the new water. Put one gall inside of the heated tank. Let the bag floate in his new water(one gall tank) . Keep adding a little bit of the new water about 1-2 tablespoon every 5 min for about 40 min that will let him acclimate gradually to the new water. And meanwhile his one gall tank will also getting warmer gradually. You need to leave the bag a little open for the air
Or you can float him in the changing cup and keep adding the new water the same way
Or you can scoop him out and leave him in the changing cup and just add new water gradually so he can use to the new water from the one gallon tank. Then slowly let him swim out of the changing cup to the one gall tank. And again the one gall tank will gradually getting warmer from the other tank while he is in the tank.
Did i confuse you , let me know ?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

No you didnt and yes i already did the water change. What i did was i got dispoabale cups and i put the water in that cup. I then put it in the mircowave for 10 seconds and warmed it up. When i pored it in the small qt tank was at 75* before it was at 76*. So he was ok with the change and his tank is alot cleaner right now. Yet while i was changing fishy he jumped out of his changing cup and landed on the washer machine! I thought he hurt himself but the fin i thought he injured seems to be ok now and hes swimming just fine. The flipping fish almost gave me a heart attack lol. I also really wanna put him back in the 5 gal tank. Hes alot better now and he hasnt lost any more fins at all for almost 2 weeks now  ! (knocks on wood) but i need something to block him from getting near the filter. I ordered a 2.5 gal tank divider and i think that should work. This way he has more room to swim and his new fin growth wouldn't get damanged by the filters current.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sound good. My fish jumped out about 5 times in 7 years. A few times when i change them, and a few times jumped out of the tank. Little jumpers, giving us heart attack. Not experienced with filters . I had filter only once with my first fish which didn't go too well. So since i don't cycle any of my tanks. I know how to change the water and take care of the filter media for the establish tank though.
And thank you for update


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Yes Fishy did almost give me a heart attack but the nextt time in eed to do a 100% water change i'll put a cover on his tupper-ware bowl lol. I really just wanted to update you again. So far all i've seen from him is new fin-growth, but he did lose some of this bottom fin, but i was waiting for that to happen. It was black dead tissue from when he got fin-rot in his bottom fin back in the 5 gal tank. It finally fell off and i'll wait for it to heal. Minus that hes acting like a nomral fishy. I DO still think he has ring-worm or something since his poop is a little stringy. So i got him New Life Spectrum Threa A food. it says that it kills interal pasasites so i've been giving him a pellet twice a day. (Before i go to work then again about 7pm) so hopefully that will take care of that. I also am gonna put him back in the 5 gal tank. I'm still waiting on the stuff i need to baffle the filter. It won't be here until atleast october 10th...so fishy has to live in his QT tank for a bit longer. Then his 5 gal will get a freh water change ill put some terta safestart in it and change its 50% once a week . Hopefully fishy will continue to improve.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Thank you for the update. His poo you saying is stringy which is still normal if it brown. It will abnormal if its white,clear, broken white . White color it was? Do you want to show me a picture of it? 
About tetra safestart please make another post to get people opinions on that. I have no idea about it , i never cycled so i don't have to use anything like that. Don't listen people from the pet store. Some of them will recommend you what you don't need to do. So if you never did it or not sure its better to ask here on the forum


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

No its not white that i could see its brown like it should be. As for the tetra safe-start im actully posting on two forums and someone on my other forum who has a betta said to use it it helps speed up the cycle process.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

As long as its normal color brown it not parasites and absolutely normal for bettas to have this shape.

About safe start take second opinion on this forum . I know sound funny second opinion just assassinate me with medical field. I am medical assistant lol
I just think this forum is really the best. So i would take that second opinion.


----------



## Blue Fish (Jun 11, 2012)

Haylx rec's the Dr. Tim's One and Only as the BEST for BB's in a bottle (similar to safe start). You can get it from the company itself, or from the foster and smith website. 

Next up in preference is Tetra Safe Start, which I've used with success as well (although Halyx has been studying these and keeping track of what works and what doesn't), so he knows more.  

I've also used API Quick Start, but only buy what you need, because after 48 hours of being opened, the BB's in there are dead. 
Also, let your tank ammonia get to about 0.25 before adding any of these, that allows the BB's from the bottle to immediately start eating and colonizing in your new tank.  

I've missed the rest of this thread so I don't know what all is going on, but I saw your Safe Start question and thought I'd pass on some info.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Its no problem blue. I apreshate the info since i do wanna get fishy out of his hospital tank. I know hes not 100% happy in it since when he was in the 5 gal tank he was making bubble-nests but then he got ill  He's gotten alot better even tho today i found a spilt in his tail fin that i didn't like so i did a water change and added a small amount of aquarium salt just to make sure it doesnt get infected. ( better safe than sorry). 

I'll also keep ur amiona comment in mind. I have the test kit so i can wait until it reads .25mm before i add any of the BB in  i'm sure fishy will be happy to be back in his 5 gal tank


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How its going? Did you transfer him back to his 5 gall?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

im also sorry for being away for so long. I was sick and im now feeling better, but saddly i can't say the same about fishy. IDK whats going on with him and frankly i'm running out ideas. After all those weeks of improvement and fin-regrowth i just looked at him and saw that ALL the parts of his tail in that regrew is MISSING again, along with a huge chunk of his tail that WASNT infected. All thats left is these red strands again and all the blue is missing. The odd thing is I havent done a thing diffrently. He has his water changed every 3 days, i have an idian almond leaf in there with him. I've used API stress stuff for his conditoner but some how his condition has worsen. He's eatting fine still...this is still so confusing


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

did you transfer him to the new tank? May be he is better in that smaller tank? Some bettas really better in the smaller tanks with less water movements. 
Is he still in the living room? The way you described it sound like he bit it again. Just keep water clean and do what you keep doing to prevent infection. 
I am glad you feeling better though


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I thought maybe he bit it again, why i don't know. He's still in the one gal Qt tank and i havent changed a thing. I left him in our living room still, his water is clean and at a compy 77*. The only diffrent thing was i wasn't paying attnetion to him due to the fact i was just lying around doing nothing for a week. I'll continue to keep his water clean and hope for the best. IDK what else i can do


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

some bettas just chronic biters, but as long as water clean and his fins are not infected he is happy. I know the tail might look not as beautiful as it was  Sorry its 11 pages so i don't remember if you feed him with frozen food? If you can find frozen blood worms i think it will be very good idea. Its a lot of protein in it which helps him to stay strong and hopefully to prevent infection. Also i have a question , do you think he can see his reflection? I am wondering if he can see the reflection and it bothers him?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I'M not 100% sure if he can see his own relfection, but its something i'd need to look into. I can say he seems happy (for a fish) hes active he's eatting like a pig still. ( I feed him new life spectrum pelletes. I found out that im allgeric to blood worms after i got him some and after handing them i had a rash  ) It would figure that i pick out of all those poor fishies the one whos a little 'off' upstairs but either way i'll do my best to take care of him


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you allergic to frozen bw you probobly allergic to freeze dried too?


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

I'm not sure but idk if wanna risk it you know what i mean?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Absolutely, you have many verities of food to feed him besides the bw. NewLifeSpectrum has garlic in it and good for the immune system. I fed my bettas with a cooked shrimp. When i make dinner for the family i just take one shrimp for my bettas. It should be a tiny piece though, and of course if he missed it it will sink right to the bottom. So i usually feed them when i do full water changes .


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Sounds like a good idea, saddly i was just looking at him and he's missing more of his tail fin again. It looks as if it went threw a paper shreader...no chunks are missing. I really dont understand why his fins are deteareating again after he was getting better. I really dont.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

also do you know if Kordon Fish Protector is good for bettas? someone on another fish forum sugjested I use it.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i think its the same as stress coat. Again don't remember if you using stress coat. But if you are then you don't need Kordon Prortector. Sorry i think he is just biting his tail. All you can do is just keep water super clean to prevent infection.And i saw some people recommending vitamins in the water. If you want i can give you more info on that. I personally never used it.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

i dont know about that stuff either, but i dont think this is him biting his tail. the ends where he did bite it are black...which means his fin rot came back due to his biting. I'm treating him again for it, and hopefully i can cure him...for a second time...


----------



## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

He is dark blue, you sure the ends are black not dark blue and its not his coloration? Can you post a pictures or video? Wait a day at least and see how he doing. The medications really hard on the kidney and stressful for fish. Try to wait and see how he doing. Try daily water changes and stress coat.


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

no the ends that where black are missing now, i've treated him for fin-rot before so i know what to do i just dont understand why it came back....well i shouldnt say that everyone i've talked too is 99.9% sure hes biting his tail, the bateria could of gotten into the wounds and started the fin-rot again. I dont understand why he's bite his tail, his in a room with a lot to look at it. I change his tank 3 times a week, i use API stress coat and i also put idian almond leaves in the tank. He's fed two pellets a day....its all very weird, but minus the tail biting and now this fin-rot again he's healthy he swims around he eats well....i know i was recusing him and unlike his friends he's lived 3 months longer.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Some bettas will bite tail even daily. I just really think that just water and stress coat would be enough . Try to monitor him before you treat him again. The medications are really stressful . Try just monitor and see if it really getting worse then you can treat him again. 
Try to find out about those vitamins. Check the link , POST #69. But if you decide to buy it find out if you still need to use stress coat along with those vitamins. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=207882&page=7


----------



## Abawhite2021 (Aug 18, 2013)

Yeah i'd need to ask about those vitiams i personally dont know much about it at all. I am gonna do the daily water changes again. I really wish he'd stop hurting himself and making himself sick. I wish i knew why he was doing that so i could stop and help him.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't think anyone can answer the question unfortunately as you already tried everything. I am wondering about vitamins myself. I didn't read the review though. But i am wondering if its really good to add to the water and give them vitamins.
I am working at the facility where we have fish tank. The guy who cleans it told me something interesting. He actually using flakes. He put flakes in the cup with dechlorinated water . Then he buys in the fish store only, garlic juice and vit c. I forgot though vit c or e. So he puts a few drops of each in the cup with the flakes. Let it sit for a few minutes and then feed the fish. This way the fish gets some vitamins. I think we also can use fresh squeeze garlic.


----------

