# Maxiumum Female Bettas?



## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey guys so recently I just picked up a used but still good 62 gallons tank. I've already given it a good scrub with warm water and vinegar and its looking good. I plan to use it as a grow-out tank for when I start breeding bettas. But I'm just curious, how many betta females can I house in there, assuming its heavily planted?


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

25-30 you could easily fit more bio load wise, but when taking into consideration, females can be just as aggresive as males meaning that they still all should have personal space


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Alright, noted thanks for the response.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I reckon you could squeeze as many as 35, but 30 or less would be a much more sensible number.  I'm very jealous - I want a tank that big! My girls would love it!


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

a 30 member sorority sounds amaaaaazing * o*


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

@djembekah haha I know  but if it was either that or a grow out tank for when i breed and i've been dreaming of breeding for ages now ;x

@Bombalurina haha, i'm sure you'll get a tank just like that or even bigger! How many girls do you have?


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Just 6. I'd probably cap it at ten and fill the rest of the tank with beautiful community fishes.


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Oh haha, what community fishes are you looking at? Maybe some tetras?


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

I have a 55 gallon and I have about 50 of them in there. It's about a gallon a fish which is the standard for fresh water fish.


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

oh haha, you must have a good filter then to get rid of the bio load.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

If you plan to breed and use it as a grow-out tank, all of your fry should fit in there comfortably. Assuming you have an average number of 50-70 fry survive...usually a first spawn resulting in around 35-40 surviving they would fit perfectly fine in a 65 gallon tankl.

Now if you're talking about a sorority of females that are not siblings, I would say the safest number to put in a tank that size is 20-25 maximum and even that might be pushing it.

As much fun and cool this might sound to have 30 females in a tank, it would be way to risky and experimented by someone with a ton of experience. For one, I have successfully housed up to 24 females in a 55 gallon with dwarf gourami's, neon teras, mollies, platties and fancy guppies with no real aggression forming. Though I did have an advantage of having about 1/4 of them being siblings.

This isn't advised because not many are able to do this. I did push the limit a lot since I would only suggest 10-15 females in a 55 gallon and even more plants than you can imagine.

So what I'm saying is the safest number to put in your new 65 gallon would be 20-25 females with some other community fish.

Some community fish that I would suggest would be platties, mollies, neon tetras, sword tails and other live bearers.

All of those fish need to be in groups of 4 or more, preferably 6, but you can get by on 4.

Good Luck!


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

If I do breed, it would be my first time. And I'm trying to get everything ready before I start, all thats left right now is a heater for the 62gal. But my lfs only sells heaters of 50w and 100w. I dont think I would be able to find a 75w. So assuming if I cant get a 75w heater, which would work better? The 50w or 100w? And also would a 75w work fine?


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Do you plan on breeding in the 65 gallon?

To answer your question....You need 3-5 watts for every gallon in the tank. So for a 65 gallon you'd need at least 400-500 watts. Heaters are expensive as it is so if you cant find any heaters that many watts, i'd suggest searching online. Check Aquabid.com and in the heaters sections another site would be to check petco or petsmart.

If you really had no other choice I'd say go with the 100 watt, but the 75w and 50w would not do any good.

Make sure you can provide enough heat to go through the whole tank before setting it up. If you can't just wait until you can get a good enough heater.


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Edifiler said:


> oh haha, you must have a good filter then to get rid of the bio load.


Nope I use plants :-D


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I personally know breeders who say more females the better when dealing with non spawn females. She doesn't recommend using 10g tanks, but a 15g tank she recommends 10+. Averaging at around 1 Betta per gallon in a tank. I think as individuals, we should just try ourselves and see what we can handle. I personally would overstock females rather than understock.

Gotta agree on the heater situation though, it's best to have a heater that's too powerful than a heater thats under powered. You'll blow heaters left and right and they will never heat the tank. 400W+ heater for a tank so large. This is why I like to stick to smaller tanks, more affordable stuff lol


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I'd have to disagree with you about the females situation.

What you should do is not follow up on what a breeder does because they would be much more experienced and for example, would know exactly what to look for in the behavior. Somethings are interpreted differently to different people. And this goes for all animals. Some are just a lot more complicated than others.

What I'm trying to point out is that to attempt anything that has to do with keeping more than one betta in a tank should be done with first doing lots of research and some kind of experience to fall back on so the "attempt-er" doesn't get disappointed.

Of course many people learn by doing, but in some circumstances, doing may not always be the wisest choice and can result in a huge amount of loss.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the way I interpreted your message is "Go for it." Which isn't always the best answer. (I also mean no disrespect)It's obvious the OP is trying to get more knowledge about this to actually attempt it.

@OP: My opinion and suggestions doesn't change...Just start small and in time, determine if you're ready to take it a step farther.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Agreed with bl2033.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Edifiler said:


> Oh haha, what community fishes are you looking at? Maybe some tetras?


There are so many community fish I love . I have wanted cardinal tetras for a long time, I can't go past ember tetras or Endlers Livebearers either, and I HAVE TO HAVE kuhli loaches one day! And maybe some kind of crazy beautiful pleco, like a candy stripe...and cories, of course!



Bettas Rule said:


> I have a 55 gallon and I have about 50 of them in there. It's about a gallon a fish which is the standard for fresh water fish.


Rules like this one are rarely a good idea, BettasRule. They frequently lead to overstocking and don't take in the varying bioloads and territorial needs of most fish. For tetras it's an ok rule in larger tanks (you wouldn't want to apply it in under 20 gallons, I reckon) but for most other fish it isn't appropriate.
Remember that freshwater fish covers a massive range of species.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

bettalover2033 said:


> I'd have to disagree with you about the females situation.
> 
> What you should do is not follow up on what a breeder does because they would be much more experienced and for example, would know exactly what to look for in the behavior. Somethings are interpreted differently to different people. And this goes for all animals. Some are just a lot more complicated than others.
> 
> ...


And my opinion is the OP should take all suggestions and make their own choices. I also said "I" and "personally". The OP can do as they wish. Myself, I have observed females long enough to know I could personally handle it, the OP may not. Only the OP knows their level of experience. You're post makes it sound like I said "Ignore everyone else, listen to me and do exactly as I say" which I was not


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Bombalurina said:


> Rules like this one are rarely a good idea, BettasRule. They frequently lead to overstocking and don't take in the varying bioloads and territorial needs of most fish. For tetras it's an ok rule in larger tanks (you wouldn't want to apply it in under 20 gallons, I reckon) but for most other fish it isn't appropriate.
> Remember that freshwater fish covers a massive range of species.


I have never had a problem with it. It's common knowledge with aggressive fish that the more fish the less the aggression. It actually makes sense if you think about it. The more fish you have, the more the aggression is spread out among the fish and no one ever gets picked on to much. I have African cichlids and the same rules apply, more fish less aggression. It doesn't take a genius to keep a sorority in a 65 gallon heavily planted. In fact my 55 gallon sorority takes the LEAST amount of work and care. I wish people wouldn't treat members like mindless children that can't do what the "experts" do. Where do you think the "experts" got their information? Everyone has to start somewhere. Try being supportive and don't demean people who you don't even know. No one on here knows for sure if this person can handle a sorority or not and speaking otherwise is rude and judgmental. This person asked what number of bettas they could house in a 65 gallon, they did not ask for a forum assessment of their fish keeping skills and directions on what this forum thinks the OP can personally handle. Just my opinion.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Bettas Rule said:


> I have never had a problem with it. It's common knowledge with aggressive fish that the more fish the less the aggression. It actually makes sense if you think about it. The more fish you have, the more the aggression is spread out among the fish and no one ever gets picked on to much. I have African cichlids and the same rules apply, more fish less aggression. It doesn't take a genius to keep a sorority in a 65 gallon heavily planted. In fact my 55 gallon sorority takes the LEAST amount of work and care.
> Yes, that's true when keeping things like cichlids or sororities, but I was talking generally (as were you - you did say the 'general rule'). For instance, if you have a single male betta in a community tank, the last thing you want to do is overcrowd him in an attempt to get him to share out the aggression, as he'll generally be happier in a less crowded tank.
> It also doesn't take into account bioload, as I said. For instance, you wouldn't want one goldfish or gourami per gallon, since they have a much larger bioload than a small, slim fish like a tetra. I'm not saying it's never a good rule (I would generally apply it to tetras, for example), but I wouldn't call it a general rule. Freshwater species are simply too numerous for there to be such a thing.
> 
> I wish people wouldn't treat members like mindless children that can't do what the "experts" do. Where do you think the "experts" got their information? Everyone has to start somewhere. Try being supportive and don't demean people who you don't even know. No one on here knows for sure if this person can handle a sorority or not and speaking otherwise is rude and judgmental. This person asked what number of bettas they could house in a 65 gallon, they did not ask for a forum assessment of their fish keeping skills and directions on what this forum thinks the OP can personally handle. Just my opinion.


Not sure if this part is regarding me or not, (I know I was a relative beginner when I tried my sorority) but I don't think people are being demeaning. Just discussing different ways of doing things.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Pitluvs said:


> And my opinion is the OP should take all suggestions and make their own choices. I also said "I" and "personally". The OP can do as they wish. Myself, I have observed females long enough to know I could personally handle it, the OP may not. Only the OP knows their level of experience. You're post makes it sound like I said "Ignore everyone else, listen to me and do exactly as I say" which I was not


I never implied that the OP should NOT make their own choices, but some encouragement on the "right" choices would be good for the OP and the fish. We have to look at what's best for the fish.

No actually you got it all wrong. I meant the exact opposite of what that is. I already know that the OP can choose for themselves and make their own decisions, and in the end they're going to do what they feel they want, need, or can do.

I already know they are going to do what fits for them overall so the best we can do is try to get enough information stuck in their head for them to go on and do what would be best for the fish and the situation.

For example..if a new member gets on the forum and says "I have 40 females from a three different pet stores with no live plants or hiding places and my tank looks so pretty." What the right thing to do would be to approach them the most positive way because they will feel they are actually being helped even with no intention of being helped in the first place and are more likely to change their situation for the best, but if you tell them "No, how could you possibly think this is okay? You need to separate them." (Just an example of a negative comment) They'll look at that and either reply back with another negative comment or will leave the forum and never come back. Resulting in the fish dying or suffering.

Point being....We should advise the best possible solution to be sure the fish are going to be okay.

And if you feel that my post made it seem like I was saying to forget what everyone else said and listen to you, you really interpreted it opposite of my intentions. I meant no disrespect.


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Sorry, I had it confused, what I read somewhere was about 1w per Litre not a gallon ;x I had it all mixed up :x But just out of curiosity, is that right? or should I follow the 3-5w per gallon. Mathematically, 3-5w per gallon is about the same as 1w per litre. So for something of 62.5g I'll be looking at a 250w heater ;x

Also, another thing that I've been wondering is that, if I was not able to get my hands on a 250w heater, would having maybe 2 100w and a 1 50w heater work the same? Or will it not go as planned?

As for the number of females, I understand that everyone has a different opinion on it, some are willing to take the risk of having more while others are experienced and know how to deal with the problems. For me, I'm not very good at reading behaviours so I would probably only do a maximum of 30 females. Btw thanks for the response guys.

Another thing that I've been pondering is that, eventually I would be using the 62g for breeding. But its way too big. Would it be possible if I divide the tank and only allow, say around the size of a 10g with about 5 inches of water? And when the fry gets around 1 month old, release the divider and allow more space for them to grow?


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Also guys, I understand that everyone has their own opinions about how things should go about. And I'm sure that there are more than 1 ways to go about having a sorority. Maybe something that might have worked for you might not for others. So please there's no need to have a heated discussion about this topic, I would hate to see this thread be filled with hatred ;x And I agree with all party taking part in this discussion and am sure that none of us here are targeting or disrespecting one another.


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Edifiler said:


> Also guys, I understand that everyone has their own opinions about how things should go about. And I'm sure that there are more than 1 ways to go about having a sorority. Maybe something that might have worked for you might not for others. So please there's no need to have a heated discussion about this topic, I would hate to see this thread be filled with hatred ;x And I agree with all party taking part in this discussion and am sure that none of us here are targeting or disrespecting one another.


This forum has a problem with members acting like know it all's and judging others and telling them what to do. This topic is not heated because of you, it's heated because unwanted forum behaviors are being exhibited and people are tired of it and trying to get it to stop.


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Oh, my bad then ;x


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Edifiler said:


> Oh, my bad then ;x


It's ok :-D People like me and Pitluvs want members like yourself, to feel welcomed and supported in your endeavors, and we dislike other members casting judgment on you and your ability's without just cause. :-D


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Well keep up the good job, I myself and many others will be grateful for the positive and welcoming attitude present in this forum.


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Edifiler said:


> Well keep up the good job, I myself and many others will be grateful for the positive and welcoming attitude present in this forum.


Thank you! We try!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree with many things said, though a disagreement is always going to be here on the forum.

The best we do is try to get it resolved and in the most positive way to keep the bickering and such away. What pitluvs and myself had was simply a disagreement that we resolved without trying to insult and bite each other's head off.

Certain things that I do, pitluvs would definitely not do, but certain things that they do I would do. It all depends in the person. Also another way is to be sure your not insulting. If it gets too personal, it can just go to a pm and be civilly solved there.


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

I agree, just like I've stated, everyone has their own opinions and hopefully we will have less arguments around here.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

As for heaters I would definitely get the 400watt+ heater. When I had a 50w in my 10 Gallon I found it wasn't heating steadily, so I can't imagine it is a 62 gallon. lol


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

50 watts is usually used for a 3-5 gallon tank for the temperature to be really steady and very well managed.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

^^
Yup. My 5 gallon has the 50 watt now, and the 10 gallon got a 100 watt.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I dunno.... I wouldn't have a small numbr in that size of tank because I'd lose 'em xDD 30 definitely would be awesome.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

MaisyDawgThirteen said:


> ^^
> Yup. My 5 gallon has the 50 watt now, and the 10 gallon got a 100 watt.


This would actually help.

Just think...every 10 gallons is 100 watts. So to be safe, I'd go with the 500 watts.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I also thought that 4-5 watts is the starting point (it's certainly what I go by - I use 25 watts for my 5 gals no problem and a 75 watt for my 16 gal). I'm not saying that extra will cause problems, but if you work off 10 wpg, you are going to end up with problems eventually as your gallonage gets bigger.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Like I said before, always best to go with more watts than you need when heating a large tank, better to have your heater not working very hard than trying to work hard because the watts are not enough. You also have to think about the ambient temp of the room. I use 50W heaters in my 10g tanks, and they hold at 78F, but my tanks are also only 76F with no heater because of the temperature of the room. Now, if the room is naturally 70F without a heater, 50W will not keep a steady heat in your tank  I would support 100W heaters for 10g tanks for sure, just to make sure everything is covered. I'd have them, but 100W heaters here are about $40 each. Eek. And also, best to just go with something that covers all your needs, instead of something that doesn't and then having to upgrade down the road. Much cheaper.

About all the other stuff going on, I'm choosing to walk away and not discuss it. I know what I said wasn't wrong, the OP doesn't hold anything against me so I'm good


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Bombalurina said:


> I also thought that 4-5 watts is the starting point (it's certainly what I go by - I use 25 watts for my 5 gals no problem and a 75 watt for my 16 gal). I'm not saying that extra will cause problems, but if you work off 10 wpg, you are going to end up with problems eventually as your gallonage gets bigger.


Well I was meaning 100 watts every 10 gallon, but I think just 3-5wpg would work best.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

You make a good point, Pitluvs. May I hijack for a moment and ask if I should therefore get a 200w heater for the 23 gallon as opposed to 100?


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

So for something of 62gallons, I'm looking at a 400w Heater? What would be the range in which I should be looking at?


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## Edifiler (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey guys I was doing some searching and found this heater
*http://tinyurl.com/86am2n3
*(I shortened it because it was too long, dont worry its nothing fishy)

Its a Hydor Theo 400w UL
Has anyone tried this? Is it any good?

--------------------------------------
Scrap it, they only ship to the US and since I live in Australia, its a no go.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm using a heater for 100 gallons in a smaller tank, and it works nicely.  It looks a little big xD but meh.

lol if I could ship to you, you could have mine. I've been meaning to find a smaller heater. It's Jager brand.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

Bombalurina said:


> You make a good point, Pitluvs. May I hijack for a moment and ask if I should therefore get a 200w heater for the 23 gallon as opposed to 100?


That sounds like a good idea to me.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Having a heater that is meant for a larger tank, is actually better  to me, anyways. If I wanted to use my heater from the 10 gallon in the 20, I can...and vice versa.


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