# Indian Almond Leaves - Tannins



## Ayame (Feb 6, 2015)

Hi everyone!
I have a question about Indian Almond Leaves
I recently acquired some IAL because I heard they have anti-fungal properties and my little guy is in the midst of healing up some fins of which he decided he did not need... (in short he's a fin biter :-() So I thought it would help stave off infection while he heals. 

About 2 weeks ago? I started by adding a quarter of a leaf to his 5gal heated & filtered tank because I read that you had to introduce it to the tank in incrementally. I didn't notice any tannins in the water, which was fine, but it gave me the impression that a 1/4 of a leaf was not enough to turn the water brown.

So this week during his water-change I used 1/2 leaf, and this morning the water really did look like tea!! So now I'm a bit concerned.... 

The colour alone has me wondering if there's such as thing as "too much" leeching in the water. Should I try diluting it? Is this harmful for him in the long run? I ask these because when I over-steep my tea it tastes really nasty and bitter and that's what I think about when it comes to tannins lol

Also, his tankmate an Oto-cat has grown fond of EATING the leaf. Is safe for him to eat in the long run? He's also become a super poop machine because of it...

Thanks!


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Otos eating IAL is fine its not harmful, you'd find shrimp will also eat it. Have you tested you pH? Depending on your water hardness you'd need a certain amount of tannins before its enough to start fluoridating pH, soft water takes very little, hard water takes a lot of tannins to get pH to change. You can buy an API liquid gh/kh test kit and use the gh kit to determine how hard your water it. Or simply test pH of tank against pH of water source used for water changes.

Btw-otos are schoaling fish which means they should be kept in *groups of 6 or more* so they are not stressed from being alone.. I personally wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a well established and planted 15g tank for otos. Also if you oto is eating the leaf it may mean it doesn't have enough natural food in the tank. Did you let the tank cycle and age (plnated0 for several months before adding the oto? does it have a lot of diatoms (brown algae) visible? do you feed the oto supplements like blanches veggies?


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## Ayame (Feb 6, 2015)

Aqua Aurora said:


> Otos eating IAL is fine its not harmful, you'd find shrimp will also eat it. Have you tested you pH? Depending on your water hardness you'd need a certain amount of tannins before its enough to start fluoridating pH, soft water takes very little, hard water takes a lot of tannins to get pH to change. You can buy an API liquid gh/kh test kit and use the gh kit to determine how hard your water it. Or simply test pH of tank against pH of water source used for water changes.
> 
> Btw-otos are schoaling fish which means they should be kept in *groups of 6 or more* so they are not stressed from being alone.. I personally wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a well established and planted 15g tank for otos. Also if your oto is eating the leaf it may mean it doesn't have enough natural food in the tank. Did you let the tank cycle and age (plnated0 for several months before adding the oto? does it have a lot of diatoms (brown algae) visible? do you feed the oto supplements like blanches veggies?


I woke up this morning to the tea-coloured tank so I didn't get a chance to test it before leaving for work, but normally the water pH reads 7.6 is that considered soft or hard? My tap water also reads the same. The API test confuses me a bit with the low-range and high-range tests, I'm not sure how to assess the readings properly. I will test my tank as soon as I get home. 

I know that oto-cats need buddies  it belonged to a friend of mine who moved back to Asia. It was the only one he had and I was afraid of where it would end up… Unfortunately the 5gal is the biggest tank I have. I did think about getting him a friend, but I thought it would overcrowd my tank and that I didn’t have enough food in the tank to sustain them both. 

He’s been living in my tank since March, the tank is planted and is prone to brown algae and spot algae. In fear that he doesn’t have enough to eat I feed him mostly spinach because my betta makes a big mess of the cucumber and zucchini as he is willing to eat them as well…


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Ayame said:


> I woke up this morning to the tea-coloured tank so I didn't get a chance to test it before leaving for work, but normally the water pH reads 7.6 is that considered soft or hard? My tap water also reads the same. The API test confuses me a bit with the low-range and high-range tests, I'm not sure how to assess the readings properly. I will test my tank as soon as I get home.
> 
> I know that oto-cats need buddies  it belonged to a friend of mine who moved back to Asia. It was the only one he had and I was afraid of where it would end up… Unfortunately the 5gal is the biggest tank I have. I did think about getting him a friend, but I thought it would overcrowd my tank and that I didn’t have enough food in the tank to sustain them both.
> 
> He’s been living in my tank since March, the tank is planted and is prone to brown algae and spot algae. In fear that he doesn’t have enough to eat I feed him mostly spinach because my betta makes a big mess of the cucumber and zucchini as he is willing to eat them as well…


Sorry I thought I'd submitted this.

Soft or hard water would be determined by a GH/KH test. pH does not tell you if you have hard or soft water. My pH is right at the max of low pH test and bottom of high label I call it 7.5. I have a lot of calcium and other minerals in my water making it hard so it takes a lot of tannins before my pH starts going down.

It's cool that your boy eats cucumbers too, I also had a Betta boy who ate with my oto shoals last spring in the 20g long. A lot of people didn't belive me so I took photos to prove it [click and set to fast]


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I thought the tannins were gradually released when you add a leaf. I add 2-3 in my 10 gallon and replace them every few weeks.


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## Ayame (Feb 6, 2015)

Aqua Aurora said:


> Sorry I thought I'd submitted this.
> 
> Soft or hard water would be determined by a GH/KH test. pH does not tell you if you have hard or soft water. My pH is right at the max of low pH test and bottom of high label I call it 7.5. I have a lot of calcium and other minerals in my water making it hard so it takes a lot of tannins before my pH starts going down.
> 
> It's cool that your boy eats cucumbers too, I also had a Betta boy who ate with my oto shoals last spring in the 20g long. A lot of people didn't belive me so I took photos to prove it [click and set to fast]


I've tested my water for the past few days and the parameters I got were the same. I think I have the same pH readings as you, where it reads 7.6 on the Low test and 8.4 on the High, so I guess it only makes sense that it falls somewhere in the middle?

Also, from the sounds of it, I'll need to pickup a whole other test! How often should I test the softness/hardness of my water? Also, what would be ideal for my Betta and Oto cat?

So pretty! I loveee the shade of blue and white edges on your boy! I certainly believe your cucumber tale, my guy will attempt to eat anything that he can get his little mouth on... (my arm included =_=) I found that spinach is something he ignores, so I tend lean towards spinach for my Oto. As for feeding cucumbers/zucchinis I turn the lights off and let my betta doze off before placing them in the tank and take them out in the morning


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## forrestfire (Dec 31, 2013)

I have found that tap water is often harder (7+) this will cause your leaves to breakdown faster because they are acidic and that's probably what is yellowing your water with the tannins. Your tank is small, I recommend useing reverse osmisis water from the grocery store. Look on the label for reverse osmosis and make sure they don't add anything like a bicarbonate or a sodium anything. Its perfect water every time no need to add anything just watch your temp when adding it. Check your leaves too, when mine go "limp" I change them.


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