# Hm with veil tail



## Yandry (Jun 28, 2012)

Hey guys I was wondering, if I cross a male veil tail with a female halfmoon, what will the fry be like? But on genetics I know some will be hm other vt but I'm not to sure. So please help? 

Thanks.


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

100% vt


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

all VT. even with a HM x HM spawn you can't garuntee any HM fry!VT is the most dominant gene, all you would get is VT's!Sorry!If you're wanting to breed you're better off starting out with a good quality pair, bought specifically from a breeder!


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

PLEASE. Do research before breeding. If you don't know quite what you're doing, you can end up with dead bettas.

Be sure to get some quality bettas from good breeders, pet store bettas aren't worth breeding. 

Good luck!


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Teeny. They will be 100% VT


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Mo said:


> Teeny. They will be 100% VT


Haha I guess I read some invalid information somewhere xD Explains why I'm not a breeder xD


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Halfmoon is a recessive gene exept to short fins. Veiltail is an extremely dominant gene over all other tail types. Meaning that unless the VT had a recessive HM gene in him. They would produce 100% Veiltail


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The Betta either meets IBC standards or it doesn't.....

IMO-nothing wrong with using pet shop Betta for breeding, however, it may take you longer to reach goals.....


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

In my opinion, there's a lot more to it than "fish meets standards or not." As a breeder, you end up with a batch of fry that will grow into adults. As adults, they need to either be sold or given away. Realistically, only a small percent of people you know will willingly take a betta from you because they'd need a tank, food, and keep up maintenance which is both money and time. The fish may end up sitting in a freezing, dirty bowl somewhere, flushed, fed to something bigger or simply forgotten about. Aiming for higher quality fish means other breeders (who are serious about the care of their fish) will actually be willing to purchase the fish, not only because they have decent form, but because you know the genetic history it. Pet store fish are meant to be exactly that- pets. If money is an issue when buying a pair to breed, then being able to afford the whole setup and maintenance of the spawning process is far from your reach. 

It's vitally the same as deciding to let your neighbor's chihuahua mate with your mini poodle. The pups will be undesireable, the genetics scrambled like a rubix cube, and you've only added to the number of homeless, unwanted pets in the world.

This is in my own opinion, of course.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Lots of Betta with known genetic history sitting on the self too.....

It cost the same to care for a Betta-genetic history known or not....

Lots of Betta being sold by breeders that do not provide genetic history-Not all breeders are equal...some breeders don't keep good record-some breeders are only in it for the money and will always tell you that the only Betta worthy of breeding will be from a breeder-_Nothing wrong with supporting breeders either-they need to make money too._

Pet shop Betta come from a breeder somewhere and sometimes the pet shop Betta will come from a good line (_not always_) Breeders rarely sell the best of the best since they generally keep them for breeding in their fish room to continue their line.

By buying a related pair from a breeder-_and nothing wrong with this-so please don't misunderstand......_You are continuing their line that they have worked years to develop-While it true even with known genetic history from a line that breeds true-you can still get some odd balls and you will still need to cull....Just like you will with pet shop fish or unknown genetic lines-true you may have more surprise-but generally culling will not be too much higher-but this also depends on your goals-That said.....regardless of known/unknown genetic history the breeder should be culling hard-keeping only the best of the best and what fits into your goals.

By keeping every single fry-you are not doing yourself nor the line you are working with any favors......
One of your goals should be _quality not quantity_......reporting that you have 100's of fry growing out from a single spawn means you didn't cull or you don't have goals and puts you in the fish-mill category....._IMO_ of course.....

_IMO_-Nothing wrong with mixing tail type, spawning unknown/mystery genetics or pet shop Betta, but as I stated-It may take you longer to reach goals-but it shouldn't stop you from breeding this species.

Be responsible, have a plan, set goals and be ready to spend lots of time in the fish room....Most important....Enjoy......it can be fun and rewarding rearing your own Betta from eggs to adults.....no matter what genetic line you start with be it known or unknown.....Maybe you will be the one that creates the new "IN" Betta.....


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

_**IMO** Not trying to be rude in any way. xD _

Large scale breeders who supply fish shops with their bettas purposely cross breed different lines until it is a spider-web like jumble of genes in each and every betta. There will be plenty of "surprises," unpredictable colors in the fry, and random tail types (which has taken breeders decades and decades to create) and most importantly- deformed fry. Because of the sporadic and mass scale breeding, deformed and weak fry grow into deformed and weak adults. (Not all, of course, but a large number within a single spawn.) This brings me to the culling, I find it interesting how you say 

"By keeping every single fry-you are not doing yourself nor the line you are working with any favors......
One of your goals should be _quality not quantity"

_That's the stickler- quality, not quantity. 
Low quality x low quality = low quality. 
High quality x high quality = high quality. 
The number of fry that _need_ to be culled from a good pair is far less than that of a pet store pair. Most novice breeders don't even want to cull their first fry, let alone even know what to look for when culling. This leads to deformed fry living a miserable life, and again, weak adults. 

I agree 100% that it is a great experience, and that people should be responsible with it. That's why good quality stock is probably the most important step you'll take in preparation of this hobby. It takes as much energy, space, time, water, supplies, money and patience to breed low quality as it does high quality. You can also make a profit on higher quality- not so with pet store offspring.


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## DazedBetta (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm gonna have to agree with OFL and I have breed petstore fish the only thing I can possibly add to OFL is if ur going to attempt a project make sure u have homes for the new life you are bring in or cull hard.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

New line are created by cross different color n fin
So jump in the pool

To me smaller spawn seem more consistence 
Less cull
Plus the quailty is not that so far apart


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

I think the only time this does not apply is when you are looking for the "Old" genetics, like the true red {Non Cambodian} or the Traditonal Cmabodians, which many are only left in Veiltail form.....for tha matter Oriental black which is really a butterfly or Blacklace...do you want to know why these are endagered?
I can tell you in a one word IBC, the standards they put on to achieve the best and darkest black or red without black edges has a direct effect on wha is being bred, so the strains of yesteryear are super hard to get a hold of as a result, instead, if they showed the very best of what a strain could be and recognised true patterns such as mustard gas and salamander..which by the way will breed true perhaps we would have better quality fish as a whole.
And I can tell you this I was a member in the early years and the only thing that has changed is the diminishing of strains as a result of the people who make decisions as to what is a fault and what isnt, a real good example is the feather tail....who was the genius that called this a fault?
For this craft to grow, it has to progress and evolve oterwise it will stagnate, and the same old crap will be seen year after year, perhpas I will renew my membership...when there is a such thing as The Dragon class...which by the way gets lumped into the bicolor category that is already WAY overloaded..seems if a fish has more than one solid color, this is what is done, instead of recognising strains.....wow....that is a sad way to do things.... I understand the need for money, perhaps if they made specific shows for specific STRAINS that would be an excellent start for this oragnisation to grow, then perhaps we could see the very best Melano, the very best Black lace etc etc..when those changes come and ther are classes for fins types, I will break my fingers trying to get the check book out...so in the meantime Veiltails will get a bumb rap everytime.
I do however agree with the fact many breeders have culls and most will give them to you for shipping the genetics are there one sister just may be homley one of the bunch, bt her daughters may produce real beautys..after all she has the same genes as her beautiful sister..so culls are a very good way to get superior fish.


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