# Something bad is happening to my Bettas!



## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Today I lost another Betta from my Female Sorority! This is the 4th death in like 2 weeks! They all act fine but are dead the next day. 1st it was my new Betta Holly that I only had for a couple of days then died, Next it was Lacey one of my older Bettas, then Spectra several days ago who was my favorite Betta of all, Now today it was a newer Betta Joy. 

They all were fine and eating well yesterday but now today, Joy died and most of them seem to have claped fins. Some ate only a pellet or 2 then didn't eat anymore. Some didn't even eat anything at all even when I offered Frozen Brine Shrips and Frozen Blood worms their favorites! 

They went back down to the bottom and sat on the gravel with clamped fins. Even while swimming they were clamped fins. 

I changed some water and put in conditioners but they still are the same. The water tests are actually better than usual so that is odd.

The only things different lately for the last 3 months is I started using tap water set at around 80 Degrees for water changes. Usually during warm months I use room temp filtered water from the PUR filter water filter container. But it is too cold now to do that because it only reaches 60 degrees in the filtered jugs of water we have water in. (I use it to water my plants) Plus the other different thig is I added 6 Oto Catfish like last week.

Here is the info you need:

Housing 
What size is your tank? *30 Gallons*
What temperature is your tank? *80 Degrees F*
Does your tank have a filter? *Yes*
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *Yes*
Is your tank heated? *Yes*
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *There are 8 Female Bettas left with 4 Cory Catfish and 6 Oto Catfish.*

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? *Pellets plus frozen fish food as a treat.*
How often do you feed your betta fish? *Once a day in the morning*

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? *One a week on the weekends*
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? *About 10 Gallons out of the 30 Gallon tank*
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, and Prime.*

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: *It is within the safe zone*
Nitrite: *Zero*
Nitrate: *Zero*
pH: *7.5*
Hardness: *180*
Alkalinity: *180* 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *Clamped Fins*
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? *Laying at bottom of tank, eating little or no food.* 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? *Symptoms just showed up today, but fish have been dieing for 2 weeks.*
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? *No, just a water change today.*
Does your fish have any history of being ill? *Yes, recently they have had Fin Rot, and a few looked to have parasites not long ago. But otherwise been pretty well for a long time.*
How old is your fish (approximately*)? Young to older, all under a year and a half aprox. *


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## Jessa24 (Dec 1, 2012)

Could the first one that died had something the others could have caught? Or the new Oto Catfish...could they have something that is contagious that's perhaps affecting the bettas? It's weird how your new one died and all of a sudden one you've had longer suddenly dies...hmmm.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

* I need help quick! *

Another Betta died this morning, my Betta Sky. I only had her for 2 months! What should I do? Pretty soon they will all be dead!!!!!


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Catch all your bettas, monitor their behavior.*

Seperate each betta into their own containers & treat the ones that won't eat. 

Like Jess mentioned, it's most likely the oto cats that introduced a pathogen that's slowly infected your tank.

Also I don't think you need to add these 3 every time you do a water change => Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, and Prime.

Prime should be enough for treating NEW water. Save the stress additives for your sick fish/hospital tanks.

What kind of medications do you have on hand?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you watch them long enough can you see any flashing or scratching? Are they breathing heavily or acting odd apart from the refusal to eat and clamped fins? 

Unless you quarantined your otocinclus for a couple of weeks prior to introducing them into the sorority you most likely introduced something nasty into your tank. 

If you run a strong flashlight over your females can you see any small white specks (ich can sometimes be difficult to see when it first breaks out but look around the gills and on the membrane of the fins) or sort of grey/gold dusting? Velvet and ich are pretty common and I lost a couple of females when I first started my sorority because they had come in with ich and their colouring made it very hard to notice at first.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*MSG* Maracyn 2 and an anti parasite med that I forget the name of.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

LittleBettaFish said:


> If you watch them long enough can you see any flashing or scratching? Are they breathing heavily or acting odd apart from the refusal to eat and clamped fins?
> 
> Unless you quarantined your otocinclus for a couple of weeks prior to introducing them into the sorority you most likely introduced something nasty into your tank.
> 
> If you run a strong flashlight over your females can you see any small white specks (ich can sometimes be difficult to see when it first breaks out but look around the gills and on the membrane of the fins) or sort of grey/gold dusting? Velvet and ich are pretty common and I lost a couple of females when I first started my sorority because they had come in with ich and their colouring made it very hard to notice at first.


No, they do not scratch on things and no flashing. They are breatheing slow like normal. The only other odd thing is that they lay at the bottom of the tank. 

Yeah, I didn't quarantine the Otos... :-? But the Otos are acting just fine however and my Cory Cats are acting normal too with no deaths to the catfish yet. 

I took a look with a bright flashlight and I don't see any spots, specks or dusting on them. Their fins and skin look normal. No sores or redness, nothing. But today some of them look more pale in color and my Purple CT Violet is starting to turn all white on her head and face. It is not fuzzy or slimy or anything, I can tell it is just her skin/scale color. But the change was within the last 2 days.


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## Friendlyfishies (Aug 16, 2012)

do you see any fungus/fuzz/cotton on the fishes? Around the mouth particularly? The ottos or water perams could have intro'd columnaris possibly?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Cup all the bettas for now.*

Whatever the outbreak is.... from what you're describing, it's going to take our your bettas first.

Otos might have developed an immunity to the pathogen they're carrying that's why they appear okay. 

Since the bettas are JUST laying around, it should be easy to take some clear photos of them. 

The sooner you diagnose them, the sooner you can treat them before it spreads to the rest of the fish.

Try to take some snapshots & upload good focused photos or you'll continue to WONDER what's going on.

Sudden changes in color in specific areas are not a good sign so document them ASAP with photos whenever it happens.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

MSG said:


> Whatever the outbreak is.... from what you're describing, it's going to take our your bettas first.
> 
> Otos might have developed an immunity to the pathogen they're carrying that's why they appear okay.
> 
> ...


OK I'll try to get some pictures of the ones that are doing the worst. 

My fish aren't the only ones sick today, I think I'm getting the flu! I hope I'm not sick for Christmas! But I'll try as much as I can to get my Betta babies well again.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You're overstocked. That many fish could easily take up 2 tanks that size.. maybe even more.

If you have even traces of ammonia and no nitrates your tank is not cycled. You're going to have to watch it carefully and make more frequent water changes: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838

I would treat the whole tank at this point with Kanaplex, if you can get it. When fish are dropping that fast it's usually bacterial.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*Pictures of the rest of my fish*

Here are some pictutres if this helps. Some are blurry but they are the clearest pics out of the dozens that I took today, Sorry. Another Betta died today, it was Pixie  I added some Med that is for Fungus and Bacteria infections this morning. If you look at Sunkist (4th pic), she has a dark thing on her that was there when I got her, but I don't think is is a parasite or anything. The fish were already starting to get sick before I got her though. On Violet (last pic) she is changing whitish on her lower face and there are some red areas around there also.

1st is Fairy
2nd is Fiesta
3rd is Misty
4th is Sunkist
5th is Starley
6th is Violet

Fiesta and Starley are the very worst today. They ate a pellet or 2, but they stay floating on the surface of the water all claped up and are looking so exhausted.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

You're overstocked and your tank is not cycled. What does "Ammonia: It is within the safe zone" mean? No ammonia is safe. While your cycling you want to do water changes anytime it hits .25ppm. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838 What kind of kit are you using to test the water?

What meds are you treating with?

Can your filter run carbons? I would put some in to make sure nothing foreign got into the tank.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I agree that those bettas look like they may be suffering from the effects of poor water quality. I don't agree that the tank is grossly overstocked (I have had much higher stocking levels with little issue). However, if your biological filter is struggling to keep up with the current bioload of your tank, especially with the addition of six more fish, this could be causing water quality issues.

What are you using to test the water? I had a lot of problems with older API liquid tests giving me false negatives (test was only a month old but was manufactured several years prior) so they are not foolproof. However, they do help give a fuller picture as to what is going on inside your tank.

Personally, I would be inclined to remove all those females into separate containers and provide clean, warm water (perhaps some IAL would be useful) and see if their symptoms don't improve. Treating the whole tank with a broad spectrum antibiotic if you don't know exactly wrong isn't something I advise. I only really medicate if my fish are on death's door and other methods haven't provided results. 

Have you tried doing a couple of large water changes over the course of the day and seeing if that doesn't improve things? 

You mention that your test results are better than usual, what would your 'usual' test results be? I would be worried if in an established tank that you are getting any readings other than 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite. 

Also have you tested your source water? If you swapped to using tap water there could be something that your dechlorinator isn't detoxifying that could be causing issues.


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## Jessa24 (Dec 1, 2012)

I think it all went wrong with not qurantining those oto catfish. Also I think you are overstocked and if you're filter can't keep up then it's going to cause a problem with your water quality.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

According to Aqadvisor, the tank is not overstocked. However it is possible I put in the wrong species of oto and cory's and since I don't know the filter in use - I just used Aqueon 30 for a 30 gallon tank. However aqadvisor is more of a guideline and I know they don't use filter capacity at 100%. 



> Warning: You should add more aquarium filtration capacity.
> 
> Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is *74%*.
> Recommended water change schedule: *26%* per week.
> *Your aquarium stocking level is 78%*. [Generate Image]












I do think you should do a larger water change though. if the tank really is not cycled, then it may be high ammonia or nitrites that are killing the bettas.



> Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications or sudden change in water conditions.
> 
> The worst factor in ammonia poisoning is that elevated ammonia can't be seen. Although the effects can be seen, they are often misunderstood or missed entirely until it is too late. Regular water testing to detect elevated ammonia, and learning what symptoms to look for go a long ways towards combatting this invisible fish killer.
> *Symptoms:*
> ...


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

I don't think it would have mattered to quarentine the Otos because they would have still been just as healthy looking as they are now so I would have ended up puting them in the main tank and they still would have become sick. They are not sick themselves and none have died and eat alot so I wouldn't have known if they had anything that the Betta's could catch.....

I don't think it is water quality or because of the tap water. Just thinking this because I use all the same water, chemicals, conditioners as all the other tanks I have up and running with my Male Bettas and Cory Cats in. I change and test their water all the time and do water changes all on every weekend.

So far I tried more changes plus bigger water changes the past several days. I still have sick fish and Fairy just died today. She was the only one who didn't even act sick and still have super energy and was still eating. Now she is dead also. 

Just so VERY frustrated that I can not save them even though I am trying so hard to! The pet store I bought them from told me to try BiFuron or something like that name, so I bought some from him to try. 

The pet store owner told me none of his store's fish in the tanks where I bought the Otos or Female Bettas from are not sick at all. He even tested my water yesterday and said it is perfect. So it must not be a disease from the store, but something at home in my tank. But what? Nothing metal in the tank, I use good brands of fish pellets etc. Where am I going wrong?

So sad and depressed.... Thinking I should give up on the 30 gallon and get rid of it... Just don't know what else to do!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

You should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10-20 nitrates. Your tank is not cycled.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

The red on their gills is also potentially indicating problems with the water.. I would really separate your stock and not continue to keep them all together in that one tank. At this point I would treat the whole tank since everyone seems to be dropping. Do you mean Furan 2?


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

callistra said:


> The red on their gills is also potentially indicating problems with the water.. I would really separate your stock and not continue to keep them all together in that one tank. At this point I would treat the whole tank since everyone seems to be dropping. Do you mean Furan 2?


No, it is called Bifuron here is a link I found...

http://www.uskoi.com/bifuran+.htm

It looks like this...


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

registereduser said:


> You should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10-20 nitrates. Your tank is not cycled.


 But it has been cycled since Summer when I set it up.When I tested it last night there is Zero Ammonia and Zero Nitrites and I don't remember the Nitrate number cause I'm here at the library's computers since the Snow storm Blizzard we got a few days ago took out my internet connection days ago But there are some Nitrates in there. 

The Petsore owner tested it yesterday and it tested perfectly. He said all the numbers are where they should be. So I'm not sure what to say....


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

OK. Your first post said you had ammonia in the tank and no nitrates, so at least that is fixed.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Yes, the tank filter has carbon and the ammonia absorbing white granuals mixed it with it. (AmmoCarb?) I have been changing it every other day now. I put it in a seperate filter media bag with the regular filter cartridge behind the Bio filter pad.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Sorry I haven't seen this thread since you uploaded photos.*

I recommended cupping the bettas ASAP to observe/treat them. 

Sorry to hear the remaining have passed. 

What brand & model number filter are you using? 
What brand & type food do you feed everyone?


I'm using a Bio-Wheel 400 on my 30G.

From the inhabitants you listed, I don't think you're MASSIVELY overstocked, but that's why I asked the filter question.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Have you cupped? Have you started treatment? How's it going?


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

MSG said:


> I recommended cupping the bettas ASAP to observe/treat them.
> 
> Sorry to hear the remaining have passed.
> 
> ...


Here is the filter from Walmart
http://www.walmart.com/ip/AquaTech-Filter-20-40-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10313137

Foods are these:


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

callistra said:


> Have you cupped? Have you started treatment? How's it going?


 I am just treating the whole tank cause there is nothing to cup them in. I am useing the Bifuron right now. The Bettas look a little better but still not wanting to eat much of anything. Only one more Betta has died since adding the Bifuron. But One Oto has died and the Cory Catfish look like they have fuzzy fins and mouths now and act sick plus wont eat.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Well, it looks like a few of us feel like you really should take them out of the tank somehow to make sure the tank itself isn't causing the problem.. you can get extremely cheaply some 1 or 2 gallon acrylic bowls and keep them warm by floating in the larger tank.. but if you want to go this route it's up to you.

I would stop feeding Hikari. NLS and Atison's are ok if you want to alternate.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

pictures don't look like parasites or anything else. Look more like water quality issue. If they clamp.. kinda hang around not moving you often have ammonia. I skimmed over the posts so don't know if you posted water parameters.. if you have anything BUT zero ammonia and nitrite you have toxic water. Prime can help with ammonia.. but major water changes will be needed to get under control. And a cycled tank does not stay cycled when adding and subtracting fish. If you added meds to kill bacteria infection you killed what will convert your ammonia to the nitrite and finally nitrate. Basically wiped out your biological filtration.. So with the med probably came huge ammonia spike. Get some water changes done. lots of them in the next few days and if you don't have a test kit for ammonia.. the drops.. get one so you know your water.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I recommend jarring them somehow anyways. IF there is a chance something is floating around you would have a better chance keeping them individually. Go out and buy a few jars, dollar tubs, anything. Even kitchen stuff would work for now (rinsed very very well). Trust me it is in your best interest to make sure your fish survive.

Adding the bottom feeders all at once could cause the tank to have higher ammonia, therefore now going through a new cycle. HOWEVER if you have 0.25 ammonia, the bettas have come in cups with up to 5.00 ammonia and survive miraculously. I don't know if the bottom feeders are even more hardy than that, but I still recommend jarring the bettas.

Then you have to re-cycle your tank. Since the meds and new additions have come in, the cycle basically no longer exists. Which is why I use meds sparingly and always ALWAYS quarantine... healthy looking or not! Never add more than 2-3 fish (depending on tank size, for your tank it's fine) at a time otherwise you risk an ammonia spike. 

If you can get the bettas jarred somehow, you can float them in the tank to keep the temperature up. Use tape or something to hold them still so they do not float away. Clean the water every day, adding water of the same temperature.


Has anything in the tank changed other than new arrivals? New conditioner? New food? New heater? New gravel?


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## Fishehgobloop (Aug 13, 2011)

Kitty Whiskers said:


> I am just treating the whole tank cause there is nothing to cup them in. I am useing the Bifuron right now. The Bettas look a little better but still not wanting to eat much of anything. Only one more Betta has died since adding the Bifuron. But One Oto has died and the Cory Catfish look like they have fuzzy fins and mouths now and act sick plus wont eat.




Your cory catfish definitely have a fungus if they've got fuzzy fins and mouths. I'm sorry but this whole thread kind of seems like the problem is that you have fungus, possibly bacterial infections (probably from adding new fish without QTing them first), had a kink in your cycle (it seems like that came from adding too many new fish at one time). I think that everyone's suggestion of getting them out and treating them individually is your best option for saving them. I realize that it's been 3 days since the last post on here and that could mean that things have gone south. Sometimes it's difficult to treat a large tank, and the best thing to do is find a way to individually treat the fish in smaller quarantine tanks. 

I'm sorry to hear that you've had so many problems, I know how that feels. My first female sorority (I had 10 hand picked girls that I thought were all gorgeous and unique) got a super bad bacterial issue and within 4 days of development, they were all dead.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Columnaris, would be the fungal infection... Which I find bettas do suffer terribly from it and drop like flies if not treated asap. However they would still benefit more, away from each other (contagion) as when one gets better, IF one gets better, they'll probably become sick again.


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## Butterfly (Nov 13, 2012)

you can go to the grocery store and pick up those disposable/reusable zip-lock cups/tubs(the taller cylinders or something alike) for now to QT. cheap, clean(uncontaminated by soap, just rinse them first with hot water for fish use), and effective at doing the job. 

I think at least trying to see how they do in new water with conditioner, daily changes, QT'd, etc. would be a good start....


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## Perry the platypus (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm so sorry. Did you try separating them? See how they react. When you put them in the cup, do a 100% water change to remove some* of the germs that might be getting you bettas sick. I don't really know that much...I can call Old Fish Lady to come and help. :-(


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I was asked to take a look at your thread and by reading-it looks like the members have already given you good advice and not much I can add.

Sorry I couldn't help....


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Well I did contact my Cat's Vet and he didn't know too much about fish or exotic animals but did know of a former employee friend of his that is a Vet who moved far away and he felt so bad about my delema that he called his Vet friend up and emailed him my pictures of the sick fish with my story of what is going on in my Sorority tank. The other Vet wasn't too sure either just by my pictures, but suggested a parasite med seeing they were starting to get skinny, even the ones who were still eating a little bit. He knows that I tried the Bacteria and Fungal meds already with no results plus they still kept dying. 

So.... Yesterday I added some anti parasite meds to the 30 Gallon. The Vet said to keep all of the fish in the tank to treat them all plus to kill anything still in the tank and filter etc. He told me after all this I will probably have to recycle it all over again but will be more easy with less fish. I know I will have to do way more water changes and testing of the water if I do have to recycle it. 

If they all end up dying I'm going to get rid of the tank or turn it into a crab tank or for a non water type pet or something IDK. But so far I am hanging in there in fighting this fight.

Oh one more thing...So far I have had no deaths today and they are all eating again this morning!!!!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Have you noticed how many of us have said QT them out of the tank into new water? Hon, you've got 2 pages worth of people saying get them out of the tank for over a week now.. I really really think you shouldn't leave them in there.. and I'm not alone.. but it's still your call.. You've treated with so much stuff already. Parasites don't kill this quickly anyway. It's usually a slow starve until they get to a certain point or get a secondary bacterial infection. It's either something fast moving like bacterial or there's something in tank.. Even if you just float them in the same tank, getting them in some fresh water is crucial at this point.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Kanaplex is a strong medication, that I use for emergency cases such as bettas dropping like flies from a disease.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Me too. I'd QT and treat with Kanaplex.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Honestly at this point, I don't think it will matter one way or the other if the fish are QT'd for treatment since all the fish are symptomatic. Whats done is done, however, I do agree that a parasite is not the current problem-Most likely what you are dealing with is Mycobacterium due to compromised immune response.

Good luck and don't give up.....


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Kitty Whiskers. I'm so sorry about your girls. 

I agree with OFL that at this point, it doesn't make sense to quarantine. In fact, it probably wouldn't have made sense to quarantine in the first place because if the whole tank is sick, it makes sense to treat the whole tank.

Bifuran is the same as Furan-2, more or less (it's nitrafurazone, plus another ingredient). This is an antibiotic so it will most likely have killed your beneficial bacteria and your cycle. When you are finished with medicating, you will need to do a mini-cycle where you monitor the ammonia and nitrates on a DAILY basis. You may want to add a bacterial supplement such as Seachem Stability.

I think what may have happened to your girls is ammonia poisoning. Although your tank was cycled, it had only enough beneficial bacteria to handle the current bioload. When you added more fish to the tank, that bioload went up and the beneficial bacteria couldn't handle it. Don't worry, it's a common mistake. 

Regarding the otos and quarantine. It is usually best to quarantine all new fish before adding them to the display tank; some books and articles even say to quarantine up to 6 weeks! What often happens is the new fish may be carrying pathogens that they themselves are resistant to but when they are introduced into the tank, your current fish are NOT resistant and they are the ones that get sick. Thus it can be that all the old fish are wiped out and the new fish are just swimming around happily. It's weird, I know, but this has happened to even the most seasoned aquarist who doesn't quarantine. In some cases, the poor aquarist loses expensive and irreplaceable fish when introducing a common fish like a guppy!

Your tank isn't overstocked as long as you keep up with water changes and monitor water quality. 

Can you describe the current symptoms of your fish now and which fish are sick? Also, what is the name of the current med you are using? That will help us to know how to better advise you.

Don't be discouraged. These things happen to everyone. Fishkeeping is an ongoing learning process. Hang in there, hon.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

You know what? Everyone says that "no ammonia is safe" but you know what? I'm sure 0.00001 ppm is safe....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

bwahahah :lol: My tap water is at 0.25 naturally. Hence, conditioner is your friend <3 and water changes.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

And my guess is any ammonia that shows up in tap water is ammonium, not ammonia. Therefore, while still toxic, it's not AS toxic and it takes a higher level to be harmful. Unfortunately, using our conventional tests, there's no way to differentiate from ammonia and ammonium . . .


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

That's true :lol:


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I never have been able to figure out my tap water. Sometimes it reads .25ppm ammonia and sometimes it doesn't. Bah, even my water likes to mess with my mind.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sakura8 said:


> I never have been able to figure out my tap water. Sometimes it reads .25ppm ammonia and sometimes it doesn't. Bah, even my water likes to mess with my mind.


My tap water fluctuates wildly with phs between 8.? and up to 11! I don't know what cities do to all of our drinking water... but I don't think it's healthy.. LOL


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Fish water is more healthy than chemical boosted water


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Sakura8 said:


> Can you describe the current symptoms of your fish now and which fish are sick? Also, what is the name of the current med you are using? That will help us to know how to better advise you.
> 
> Don't be discouraged. These things happen to everyone. Fishkeeping is an ongoing learning process. Hang in there, hon.


I have 3 female Bettas left (Angel, Misty, and Violet), 1 Cory Cat, and 5 Otos. 

The symptoms are that Misty looks a tiny bit pine coned with clamped fins, she eats only a pellet a day because that is all she wants. Angel just stays floating in the corner in back,she is not clamped up anymore but will not eat anything. Violet eats a pellet then spits it out, she is not clamped up either but she swims around more than the others. All 3 Bettas go into the caves to hide when I am not near the tank, even then, they are very slow to come out of hiding.

The 1 Cory Cat is now eating again, there is no fuzz anymore but he mostly sits on the bottom all day and does not swim around like before. Maybe that is just because he misses his other Cory friends and feels insecure now? 

One OTO died the 2nd day of the Fungus treatment, but all the others are still going strong and eating etc.

Today I did a 50% change of water and have stoped the Parasite Meds. It was Parasite Clear by Jungle.

What do you suggest I do now?

Thank you for your encouragement  This sure is depressing


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think it's possible your girls have internal infections as well. I cannot remember, did you try the Bifuran at all? If you haven't, you may want to quarantine your girls in a smaller tank and treat them with that. 

I'm hoping your cory is just a little lonely. I'm so sorry you lost all the others.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Sakura8 said:


> I think it's possible your girls have internal infections as well. I cannot remember, did you try the Bifuran at all? If you haven't, you may want to quarantine your girls in a smaller tank and treat them with that.
> 
> I'm hoping your cory is just a little lonely. I'm so sorry you lost all the others.


Yes I did a full corse of the Bifuran, that is when the Cories started to die. Maybe they were too sick to handle that medicine? 

So far today, Angel is still hanging out in the upper back corner, she doesn't eat more than 1 pellet a day but looks better. Violet is eating much more and wasn't hiding out all day like she was. Misty still hides but swims faster and she eats more too. Maybe they are on the mend... I hope so. I am watching the test results of the water with good water changes too.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*Not over yet I am afraid....*

Well Angel just died today, so I guess they are not better yet. Misty looks very much like a pine cone this morning. She probably will be next.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Tried Kanaplex yet? QTed individually yet?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sorry, Kitty Whiskers. I would agree with Callistra. If you can locate the Kanaplex, give it a whirl.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Kenaplex says 1 scoop to 5 gallons of water. How much should I add to a 1 gallon tank?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

It's important the scoop is level because you can easily get a 2x-3x dose if you don't level it.

You take 5 tsp of tank/dechlorinated water. Dissolve the scoop. Take 1 tsp of the mixture and put it into the 1 gallon bowl. Toss the extra. You'll need to mix this up fresh each time you dose.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

callistra said:


> It's important the scoop is level because you can easily get a 2x-3x dose if you don't level it.
> 
> You take 5 tsp of tank/dechlorinated water. Dissolve the scoop. Take 1 tsp of the mixture and put it into the 1 gallon bowl. Toss the extra. You'll need to mix this up fresh each time you dose.


 Ok thank you  I just ordered it online today because I can not find it near here. It should be here by the 19th the web site said. 

Meanwhile I took out the 2 Bettas and the Cory Cat and put them in 3 different 1 gallon glass fish bowls. They wont have heaters, but I put them in the warmest room in our place. I left the Otos in the tank, I can't catch them anyway because they are way too fast!


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

I got the Kanaplex today in the mail. Should I treat the 3 fish in their 1 gallon fish bowls that are unheated and treat the otos in the 30 gallon tank? Or should I just place the 2 Bettas and Cory cat back in the 30 gallon where the Otos are to treat them all together?


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Personally, I would not put them back in the tank yet.

Are they acting any better/different since you removed them?


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

callistra said:


> Personally, I would not put them back in the tank yet.
> 
> Are they acting any better/different since you removed them?


 Acting the same, and Misty is still Pineconed up.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*Sad News *

I started treating the Bettas and Cory Catfish with the Kanaplex but sadly Misty died. She was hanging on to life so long trying to fight this sickness. RIP Misty 

I set up a makeshift hospital tank using a 7.5 gallon storage tote that I bought yesterday. I filled it with 5 gallons of conditioned water, put in a heater and an air stone and added some plastic plants for security. No gravel on the bottom and no filter. I put my last female Betta Violet in there with Norville my Albino Cory Catfish. I added the Kanaplex according to directions and now I'm hoping for the best. 

I just can't believe that out of 12 Bettas, only one is left and only 1 out of 4 Cory Cats survived. 

Oh and by the way I added the recommended amount of Kanaplex to the 30 Gallon tank also because the Oto Catfish are still in there. One Oto this morning has a whiteish hole in it's side. Maybe they are going to get sick too IDK. I have been keeping up on all the more water changes with the 30 gallon.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*hugs* I'm so so sorry, Kitty Whiskers. I wish I could tell you why some tanks succumb en masse to diseases even when the fishkeeper is doing everything right. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for Violet and Norville.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

Sakura8 said:


> *hugs* I'm so so sorry, Kitty Whiskers. I wish I could tell you why some tanks succumb en masse to diseases even when the fishkeeper is doing everything right. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for Violet and Norville.


 Thank you very much I needed a hug alright!

The one Oto with the white hole on his side died too. He died the next day after putting in the Kanaplex. 

So far Violet and Ghostie are doing ok and eat a lot more than before. They are very active and seem happier now with the Kanaplex added to their water. I added their 2nd dose today as well as the 2nd one for the Otos. (Typed the wrong name and wrong Cory Cat last time, Norville is happy and healthy and lives with Ace in his 10 Gallon)

How will I know if and when I could add more fish to the 30 Gallon tank? I'm not sure I could handle loosing any more Bettas so maybe I'd add different tropical fish instead.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

wait what.. white hole? like this? pitted white stuff? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/CichlidPIX/P1010009 Oscar (1).JPG


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Callistra, you're not thinking of lateral line disease or hole-in-the-head, are you? I know smaller fish can get the parasite that causes that but I thought only bigger fish with big sensory pores could get the pore erosion . . .


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't really know about the disease process in otos specifically, but yes, that's why you see the holes in fish like discus and oscars. The other bettas could maybe have an internal version of it and the oto an external... but maybe I'm wrong. we don't have any photos from the OP to go off of, and I don't know of much that causes white holes that aren't fuzzy. I've seen bacterial rot fill with fungus which isn't fuzzy at first.. I know gram negative septecemia in catfish can cause white holes, again don't know about oto.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I was under the impression that HiH could only happen in larger fish with pores big enough for the parasites to get into, but I could be wrong. Otos are catfish so maybe this is a bacterial rot like you mentioned.


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*I believe the fish are getting better!*

It didn't quite look like the links picture but it was close though. It was big and covered a huge area of it's left side. So far the other Otos are OK and still active and eating.

I did complete the series of Kanaplex in the 30 Gallon and in the hospital tank. I dosed the maximum of 3 times adding the right amount of powder every 2 days. 

Violet seems better, but today she kept spitting out her pellets. Later on the pellets were gone so I guess she ate them. She is active and curious like she used to be. The Cory Cat is doing better as well and eats his Bottom Feeder pellet like a pig! He too is way more active too.

Hopefully this does the trick. 

What should I do next? I was planning on doing a large water change and add the filter cartridge back in to the filter box of the 30 Gallon. Then I was going to move Violet out of the hospital tank and put her in a tank of her own instead of placing her back into the 30 gallon. 

When do you think it would be safe to put new fish into the 30 Gallon?


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## Kitty Whiskers (Sep 28, 2009)

*The Hospital Tank*

This is the hospital tank I made for my fish. It's a 7.5 Gallon storage tote box. 

Violet has her appetite back, she is wanting to eat the catfish wafer LOL


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