# Should I not have bought this Betta baby?



## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

I took great pride in picking out a new baby Betta with my 7 year old today, but after reading some comments on here, looks like a lot of you look down on it because they are too young. I feel bad now because I didn't realize. Not my first rodeo with a Betta, though.... and this fish is tiny but it doesn't look to young to me, looks just about right. But now I figure, shoot, this fishy will have a better life with me spoiling it rather than floating around in an empty, lonely cup.:-( SO since I already bought it and we already love it (lol), we're going to make the best home we can for it. World, introducing......."Tiny". 

I am saying "it" because I'm not sure, but I think I have a female. I wanted to come to you guys, the experts, and ask 2 questions: Do I have a female? AND if she is defin a female, can I get one more female to keep her company? I don't want her to be alone, I don't believe any species should live without another of their own, no matter what. I have a great apartment for them to live happily in with plenty of room. :-D

Any advice, greatly appreciated!


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I see no problem with buying the babies as long as you know how fragile they are. 

As long as you change the water a lot or put her in a cycled tank she should be OK. I had one for my first betta and she died because I did not understand the nitrogen cycle and thought a filtered tank was good enough. WRONG! Babies are sensitive.

My Petco store is still selling babies even though I bet most of them die.

In the end I decided I only wanted males and only colors that I think are beautiful. You never know what you'll get with babies but I know some prefer the surprise.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

With warm water and lots of water changes s/he should be fine.
Can you get himher to eat crushed flakes? Any appetite?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Just posted a pic of Tiny, hopefully it is enough for you guys to let me know if you think it's a female. Please, anyone know??????
She is spunky, seems fine, and ate like a pig the first time I fed her this afternoon after getting her home. I only gave her a few baby betta pellets and will feed her 3 or 4 times a week as the Betta pamphlet said. Some of you are mentioning filtration, and from my prior Betta experiences, I know they prefer still water. My plan is to change her water every week or two and replace it with spring water. No filtration, but watching the food amount I give. Hopefully these are all the right things to do!


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Whether or not you believe every thing should have company, bettas ARE solitary animals. They prefer to live by themselves, and the bettas they sell at the petstores that have long fins, short fins, were all breed to be aggressive, that is why they will fight so easily. Wilds are a bit different, some can coexist fine with others, while some are solitary. They don't need any other bettas or other fish to be happy, they need good care and attention.

What size of a tank are you using? And is it cycled?

The picture didn't work...


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

@ Kfryman, I wasn't considering getting another female just because I feel they shouldn't be alone, I was considering it because I read that females are ok to put together and that they actually do enjoy the stimulation of another fish. The good care and attention will come naturally, no reason to question that. If I wasn't willing to do so, I wouldn't have bought her. Again, I've had Bettas before. You should be able to view her pic on my avatar or in my album, I only have one pic uploaded.
Anyway, how do you know they are happier alone? Did you ask a Betta?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

BettaBaybee said:


> Any advice, greatly appreciated!


or not :lol:


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Gah! No betta should only be fed 3-4 times a week, especially babies! This is another ploy by stores to sell bettas as pets you can forget about half the time.
You should be feeding your baby lots, at least 3 times a day. Babies need more food than adults actually, since they have to grow very quickly.
What size is the home? That should help us figure out water changes. Once a week will probably not be enough- young betta secrete a hormone that stunts their growth, and need tons of water changes to grow up healthy. (in the wild this hormone thins out the weakest in the group).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

@ Olympia, ok, thanks for the info, 3 times a day while they're babies, got it! Getting up now to go feed her!  And by the way, anyone in "Petco" that just works there will NEVER be a trusted source of any animal info for me, especially aquatics. Half the time these people don't have a clue what they're talking about and have no business giving out info. They should direct people to awesome websites like this one, with people who know what they're talking about.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Okay well they are more fragile. The reason I hate seeing them being sold, is because they have yet to develop a proper immune system, and therefore the effects of being in a cold stagnant filthy cup is more than most of them can endour.

But, if you buy one make sure to know they are fragie babies :3


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Oh sorry.....size of her home. A triangular BettaKeeper, looks like it holds a little over a liter. I bought the betta water to start with. Will get a gallon of spring water to use next and from now on. Is that ok?


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Still waiting to hear.....does anyone know if I have a girl or not?? I'm dyin' here!! LOL


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

How come I don't see the picture D:


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

Only over a litre. . . ? That's tiny. .____. So roughly about a 0.25g tank? 

:T How are you properly heating the tank? I highly suggest you invest in a bigger tank for this Betta.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

@ Sena.... really?? You can't see my profile pic, or in my album? I only have one pic uploaded of her, that's weird. I'm looking at it right now in the thread and on my profile. Hmmmmmm......


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah that was what I was going to point out lol.

Trust me, 1 gallon will be good for medication and such... but the best bet is an adjustable heater in a 3 gallon - room to grow, less hazard of ammonia then a 0.25 gallon (which you basically need to clean every day to twice a day!) And have the water level to about 2 gallons - I do this for some of the weak swimmers, the SBD bettas, and youngin's


as for your avatar, I cannot tell. It seems to be a bit young to tell the gender..


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

@ Micho, it's one of the "BettaKeepers" mini tanks, the triangular one. You can see a pic online, there's a bunch of them posted if you Google BettaKeeper. My home stays at 74 - 76 degrees, I'm not really sure why everyone keeps saying that they use heaters. Bettas usually do fine within that temp. Maybe once Tiny gets bigger I will purchase a larger habitat, but she is really really tiny. Shouldn't this be plenty of room, for now?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

errr.... the room temperature may be 76 but the water will be 75... I know this ;-) my room's temperature for my fish is at 82, and the water is at 77!! Now imagine if the heater turned off for the night time... the temperature in my room drops to 75, making the water about 70... they do better in 78-82

I suggest at LEAST a 1 gallon. Because of ammonia.

Never upgrade a tank to a fish's growing size - always have the tank for the fish's adult size  a gallon will work...


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

BettaBaybee said:


> @ Micho, it's one of the "BettaKeepers" mini tanks, the triangular one. You can see a pic online, there's a bunch of them posted if you Google BettaKeeper. My home stays at 74 - 76 degrees, I'm not really sure why everyone keeps saying that they use heaters. *Bettas usually do fine within that temp.* Maybe once Tiny gets bigger I will purchase a larger habitat, but she is really really tiny. Shouldn't this be plenty of room, for now?


Ask a breeder. No they don't. Water temp is usually a few degrees lower than room temp. That puts your water at roughly 71F. This is too cold for a betta. Most breeders keep their tanks around 80F. Betta are tropical fish and need heaters. The babies especially because it promotes healthy growth. 

As for the size of the tank. We suggest you get a larger one not just for living room but to dilute wastes. When fish eat they produce ammonia which is toxic to them. In a small container of water, ammonia builds up fast and does kill fish (I see this most often with goldfish in gallon bowls). It will also dilute the hormone that babies produce to stunt growth. The water should be changed daily to prevent the buildup of this hormone.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Babies are bad for that :lol: I know this!!! outof a spawn I had MJ and three others were double the size of the others...


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

BettaBaybee said:


> @ Micho, it's one of the "BettaKeepers" mini tanks, the triangular one. You can see a pic online, there's a bunch of them posted if you Google BettaKeeper. My home stays at 74 - 76 degrees, I'm not really sure why everyone keeps saying that they use heaters. Bettas usually do fine within that temp. Maybe once Tiny gets bigger I will purchase a larger habitat, but she is really really tiny. Shouldn't this be plenty of room, for now?


Did the research, it holds 40oz of water which is 0.3125g. . . Bettas are tropical fish, and they thrive when the temperature of the water is around 78F ~ 82F, your house is at 76F give or take, you have to take into consideration that air is warmer than water, so minus 5F off of that and the water temperature is around 71F, not exactly toasty to Bettas.

And the reason why people use heaters is that not only to heat the water but to keep the temperature stable, people use heaters in goldfish tanks (coldwater fish), because they water might too cold even for them, and to stabilize the temperature rather let it fluctuate throughout the day (which could kill the fish). 

Even though she's tiny, it's like saying a baby can live in a closet. Not really, no. I highly suggest you upgrade to 1 gallon or bigger, 0.3g is too small to heat safely, too small for a fish in general, even for a baby fish. With smaller tanks comes with more water changes, why we make these water changes is to keep the ammonia levels down.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

"Baby" bettas are actually juveniles. I have almost 100 juveniles growing out in my fish room right now. During this time they're producing a ton of hormones. One of these stunts them. Meaning if too much builds up in the tank they can stay stunted as a juvenile for their entire life. To counteract this I use large tanks (never under 20 gallons) as grow outs. These tanks allow me to go a few days without draining and refilling them. I used to use tanks between 10 and 16 gallons but they proved too small for 30+ juvenile bettas. 

Baby bettas also need more food and warmer temperatures to grow correctly. Warm water increases growth however, it increases metabolism. I keep my tanks no less than 80 and no higher than 90 (ideal is 84-86F). I feed my fry (babies) four times a day until three weeks. Then they get baby brine shrimp once a day (they snack on it all day). At five weeks I place live daphnia in the tank and they rip them apart and pack on the growth. I recently placed my 7 week old metallic multi HMPKs in a 30 gallon filled with daphnia and they cleaned it out in two days. Once they get big enough for Atison Pro (around 8-10 weeks old) I start them on that and then they really get growing and start looking like adults.

Most of these "baby" bettas being sold are at least five weeks old. Perhaps no older than eight weeks.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

+1 Mr V


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Thanks so much everyone for the input! I have a gold mine of info now and will work to make Tiny happy and healthy. BUT my biggest question still stands, is this fishy too young to sex? If not, is she a girl like I'm thinking? HELP pleeeease! I have to be sure!


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Also, is fresh spring water okay to use? I would rather buy a couple gallons of spring water instead of using tap and having to add a bunch of chemicals to it to soften it.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

you have hard water?

well... not sure of spring water, but some people use half and half.. half tap water (with tap water conditioner that neutralizes metals, chlorine etc) and spring water... But I am no expert on that


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

I have well water. I really don't want to use tap at all. Too hard to make sure its' safe. The simplest approach seems to make the most sense to me, spring water is already pretty pure. I am using the Petco Betta Water right now, wondering what the difference is between that and spring.....besides being way overpriced.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

betta water???  that's new to me :lol: as for spring water... I think OFL, Mr V and a few others know more about it... but I think something is missing in it or something...? so you may need to add stuff to it, but I dunno x.x

here is one thread... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=100134&highlight=spring+water OFL explains why you should add a little of tap water to mix in, since our bottled spring water and such doesn't have the good stuff.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Still no one has answered my #1 question.....LOL.... it must be just too young for you guys to tell the sex.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I did so answer!!! Look at my other post lol I said I couldn't tell mainly because he/she looks too youung and it's hard to sex 
juvenile males can have an egg spot. males and females can look the same for bodies... so hard to tell :lol: although if that were what he'd/she'd stay like, they would be a male only because of the body shape (to me). Females tend to be more "curved" for the tummy, or fatter, but this one may be too young right now. it'll be a surprise


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## Cattitude (Apr 19, 2012)

BettaBaybee said:


> Still no one has answered my #1 question.....LOL.... it must be just too young for you guys to tell the sex.


I was catching up on this thread. I saw your album pic, and I'd say your fish is too young to definitively sex yet. Between females and males the main differences are that females have a heavier body and an "egg spot". The egg spot is a tiny white spot on the belly in front of the anal fin. The females also have shorter fins than the males, but with your fish the fins aren't grown out yet.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

If it's distilled or reverse osmosis water it will be virtually without any dissolved minerals. This is problematic as all aquatic organisms need minerals to maintain a proper ion concentration within their body tissues. Also, aside from being deficient in certain minerals, the kidneys will also have to work harder to flush the extra water- which will continually flow into the hypertonic tissues through diffusion- out of the body. Being essentially only H20, purified water also lacks the buffering to avoid rapid pH swings.

Despite all of this, if you're worried about your tap water (I hear you..I have a well too), I would just get a mineral mix designed for reverse osmosis/distilled water. I think there is one out there called RO Right (not really sure of the name though). This would give you more of a buffer and also provide the minerals needed for your fish.

Also yes, a heater is a must, as is a larger container that can support one. Water must be at least 78 degrees, optimally around 80 degrees especially for a young fish.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

@ Kim, so get distilled, not spring?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

No. You want spring rather than distilled as distilled is bad for the fish. The water is devoid of essential dissolved minerals. 

It may surprise you to learn that spring water is also hard water. During a water boil notice a few weeks ago, I had to do some water changes on a hospital tank. I grabbed spring water from my local supermarket, and tested it. If I remember correctly the GH was 12 and the KH 9. This makes it medium hard water. However, every place that has spring water isn't going to have these parameters. And they may even differ from bottle to bottle. Changing parameters has bad effects on fish. Most people don't like using well water due to the high nitrate content and high hardness, but spring water isn't always the best as a staple either. What is in the betta water?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Betta water if I remember is just pretreated water. It's way too expensive to be practical.
Some fish stores sell RO water, cheaper than distilled at a store usually.
I think it'd be worth considering doing a 50/50 mix of your well water and RO (or distilled if need be). This should cut in half any problems in your well water, including nitrates... You can go buy some low care live plants to do some work too.
Do you know what your well water is like? I mean if there is more than trace amounts of things like lead in it it's a no go for fish. But if you can drink it it should be fine either straight or mixed with RO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Everyone else already answered but well water is just fine.

Your fish is too young to sex at this point. In a month or so once it starts growing and being relieved of the stress of shipping and going to a new home it'll be easier to tell.


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

I find it amazing how many people are afraid of well water. Does everyone live in a place where extensive mining, nuclear explosions, or fracking is taking place? Well water is from inside the earth, most has been highly filtered through layers of sand, gravel, rock. My well water is pristine except for a slight hardness. The nearest city has water so treated, it smells like a city pool the minute you open the tap...yuck!
For most peoples edification, spring water comes from the earth as well, is hard like well water, a company usually pumps it out of the ground(a well)...then they filter it, bottle it and sell it to people that the media has made afraid of well water!

Sorry, but unless humans have screwed up the water supply in your area by mining, drilling, fracking, or deforestation, your well water is probably better than any alternative!

Test it and make sure, but if you are allowed to drink it, it's probably ok for your bettas.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Most of our wells around lake Ontario are so full of sulfer (and limestone) that it stinks up a room. Different geographical regions have different well issues, important to consider. A lot of wells these days have filtration before they reach your tap though, around here, unless you have a pretty primitive well, but my aunts is unsafe to drink. It's hell for them, they get all their drinking/cooking water from a neighbors city water.
Nitrates was the issue, which is one of those things that doesn't affect us in as small concentrations as fish, so testing of the tap is needed even if you drink it. Someone on here has a well that spits out 40ppm nitrate straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Oooh, I would highly recommend that water change. I'm doing about 100% water change a day right now with aged water. When I did half day 100% WCs, I thought I could see the baby grow day by day. Too much effort though, and I stopped doing it about a week ago. I also threw in some salvinia and duck weed to keep any excess wastes in check as my tank is only a little bit bigger than yours, (until the fish gets bigger.) 

Baby fish are fun, I'm training mine to swim into its water change cup every time I feed him/her/it, so I don't need to chase it around and stress it out with a cup every time I want to do a WC. Now when it sees the cup coming in, it knows it's food time and swims right in.

What are you feeding yours? Mine will only take crushed hikari biogold and ignores all frozen. Also spits bbs (the live ones) out... 

color's came in at about 1 week after purchase! I hope you enjoy watching yours grow!


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## clh101 (Apr 30, 2012)

You should be fine using well water, and just treating it with a few drops- look on the bottle what it says for treating the water. I have always used well water... We have our own well tap water. I've NEVER had a problem using it. I also use it for my koi fish pond (bigger project then bettas!). The well water shouldn't have too high of a nitrate content, don't worry about it, after treating it should be fine. I always let me water sit for few days after being treated and then change my tank over. 
But they are correct, tap/well water has the minerals that every fish needs and with water treatment it just protects the fish and lowers some of the levels so it's not too hard on the fish. 

( I would think that rain water out in the wild is more filled with nitrate, etc than well water??)


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## clh101 (Apr 30, 2012)

This is what I found to be the betta water:*

Clean, purified water processed by reverse osmosis, with supplemental oxygen. *


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Supplemental oxygen? Does this mean it's like that fad a few years ago where they added oxygen to water for humans? The hype was that it gave your body a boost and made it work more efficiently during exercise. As a nurse and a scientist, I can tell you that it doesn't work for humans because we don't use oxygen that we eat or drink like that...it has to go through our lungs. I doubt it would work that well on fish since whatever stayed in the bottled water, which would be very small percentage, would be in the wrong form for them to use. 

And for bettas, about as much use as an air stone I believe.

Sounds like really expensive water that is missing what fish need (trace minerals which were removed w/ RO) and has processes done to it that aren't useful to bettas..


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

WOW. I am starting to realize that I am in the company of pretty intelligent people here. You guys rock, and your knowledge of this stuff is staggering. I think the bottom line is, which a few of you said, you can't sterotype well water, it depends on where you live. Each area is different, so you must test. I was just about to go out today and get a gallon of spring water and call it a day, but I guess there's a lot more work involved than I thought. 

SO, would it be enough if I were to go to Petco (only store around for me) and just get water treatment solution, treat my tap water, and use that? Do I HAVE to test still after that? If so, what solution do you recommend? Is there one that is just one step and the water is ready? 

The Petco woman said spring water is just fine to use, and was confident in her answer. This is exactly why I never take what any person in Petsmart or Petco says seriously. It was painfully obvious that they don't know what the hell they are talking about half the time, and the 4 dead babies that I found and had to HAND to the employee to get her to notice them just proves my point. Idiots. Thank God there are sites like this one... or Bettas would be on the endangered species list before long.


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## SlabSided (Mar 1, 2012)

Olympia said:


> Someone on here has a well that spits out 40ppm nitrate straight.


That would be me.  Last time I checked it was actually somewhere between 40-80. :shock2:



clh101 said:


> The well water shouldn't have too high of a nitrate content, don't worry about it, after treating it should be fine. I always let me water sit for few days after being treated and then change my tank over.


You can't "treat" the nitrates out of the water except via RO or some other process I can't remember the name of. Letting it sit or even boiling it does nothing.

I've been cutting mine about 50/50 with bottled spring water (which I also tested and has about 5 ppm nitrates) and using Seachem Purigen in my filter and the nitrates stay around 5 ppm in the tank.

In the meantime, I continue to drink my well water, which tastes great, without noticeable effects. :crazy:


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I would test afterwards just to see the results  Plus if you get into a habit of testing every now and then, because certain environmental things will change so the well water will too.

If you WERE to use spring water you need to suppliment the minerals.


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## SamJustice (May 5, 2012)

I must thank you guys. reading this thread has helped me out a bit.
I have city water, and every thing in it is perfect. Except the pH. It's almost 6.0. (and tastes icky. /= )
Would pH up make the pH go up, without changing anything else? 'Cause when I treat it with water conditioner, it makes the water extremely hard..

Or would cutting it with spring water have the desired effect?


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

SamJustice said:


> I must thank you guys. reading this thread has helped me out a bit.
> I have city water, and every thing in it is perfect. Except the pH. It's almost 6.0. (and tastes icky. /= )
> Would pH up make the pH go up, without changing anything else? 'Cause when I treat it with water conditioner, it makes the water extremely hard..
> 
> Or would cutting it with spring water have the desired effect?


6 is nothing, mine is over 8 and the bettas are just fine.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Bettas are darn hardy :3 Mine are in 7.6


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Okay guys, so instead of turning my thread into a water comparison contest (LOL) can we please stick to the subject..... I asked what water treatment solution I should get and if it's possible to get something that's just one step and the water is ready. SO, overall question, what is the EASIEST to do here with the water situation? Busy single mother of 3, but care a lot about my Betta. Want to do what's best but not looking to have a lab in my kitchen either LOL.....


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## SamJustice (May 5, 2012)

registereduser said:


> 6 is nothing, mine is over 8 and the bettas are just fine.


lol
mine is in between 6.8 and 7.2, 'cause i treated the water. but treating it made it really hard..


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Not sure, but if you cut it in half with spring water, like some people on here do... What's the PH for the spring water if you know?


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## SamJustice (May 5, 2012)

I'm not sure, actually. I was gonna pick up a bit on the way home and test it, before mixing. then mix a bit. then test again.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

that works =D


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## SamJustice (May 5, 2012)

lol. I don't want my baby in anything not good for him. XD


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

:lol: exactly lol


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## sortoe (May 9, 2012)

heyo, i just got a male betta, i would like it if someone could tell me if he is a baby or not, and what kind of betta he is(eg. Halfmoon, Doubletail, Butterfly, etc. etc.) ive been feeding him 2 times a day, at breakfast, and at dinner time.
Anyways, ill try to pos a pic. of him.

i would like it if someone could reply, thanks.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Start your own thread in "betta pictures", show some pictures and a bunch of us can help


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

REALLY? lol...... smh........sigh.....


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok...easy...if you want a comprehensive test kit that's fast and easy to do at home, get API master test kit; then test your water. Petco can also test it for you, just bring in a sample!
1. Fast and easy w/o testing: do 50/50 well water w/spring water, treat w/ Seachem Prime, fill betta tank at desired temp.
2. Extremely fast and easy, just treat well water w/ Seachem Prime! But, can't guarantee results cuz your not my next door neighbor  and I don't know your well water conditions.

Note: if you decide to test, spend extra buck for Master Test Kit. Don't bother w/ the easy test strips because they don't have all the info you need like water hardness, and they cost more in the long run. Fyi: master test kit sounds and looks WAY more difficult than it actually is


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

clh101 said:


> ( I would think that rain water out in the wild is more filled with nitrate, etc than well water??)


Nope. Rain water is actually very pure water. The nitrate in your well (ground) water comes from the excess of fertilizers used on farms. This can be especially bad if you live in an area of heavy farming either plants or animals. Many people will cut their hard water with rain water to make it softer. 



SamJustice said:


> I must thank you guys. reading this thread has helped me out a bit.
> I have city water, and every thing in it is perfect. Except the pH. It's almost 6.0. (and tastes icky. /= )
> Would pH up make the pH go up, without changing anything else? 'Cause when I treat it with water conditioner, it makes the water extremely hard..
> 
> Or would cutting it with spring water have the desired effect?


A pH of 6.0 is fine for betta. Their wild ancestors come from water with about that pH. It's better to just let your betta adapt to it than keep trying to change it. The constantly changing parameters will cause him more stress. 



BettaBaybee said:


> Okay guys, so instead of turning my thread into a water comparison contest (LOL) can we please stick to the subject..... I asked what water treatment solution I should get and if it's possible to get something that's just one step and the water is ready. SO, overall question, what is the EASIEST to do here with the water situation? Busy single mother of 3, but care a lot about my Betta. Want to do what's best but not looking to have a lab in my kitchen either LOL.....


I think your easiest solution is going to be use your well water. Unless you can find something in your water quality report that throws up red flags, then it should be fine to use. As for a water treatment solution, API Stress Coat and Prime are some of the best. Prime is more concentrated, so you will end up using less for each water change. If you do go with Prime be sure to get the small (50mL) bottle because it will come with a dropper. Prime doses at a drop or two per gallon.


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## SamJustice (May 5, 2012)

gotcha. i only managed to get it up to 6.2 with the spring water and treating. xD


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

@OP/Bettabaybee: Please get your water tested so we can better accomodate to your water needs. I'll be happy to give my opinion via PM

@Everybody else turning this into a conversation/chat/trying to ask their own questions: Please make your own thread and/or do not derail OP's thread.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Hey, this isn't OP's thread, it's miiiine!!! LOL.....
SO, update: I decided to use tap water and Betta water conditioner. I also purchased a small beautiful blue and striped veiltail female, "Dory", and the two of them love each other and have beem swimming peacefully close to each other ever since I put them together. They seem to have really bonded, and don't separate much, which I figured. Only thing is, the more I look at Tiny, I think he is a male. So I will keep a close eye on him as he grows and if I see ANY aggressiveness toward Dory, she will get a separate apartment  I will do a half water change every other day to every 3 days to keep ammonia down since there are 2 fishies in there now. They seem very happy and content and have perked up a lot since having company. Goes to show sometimes, even if people advise against it, you just have to try something yourself if you have a gut instinct about it. So far, SO GREAT! They are so cute together, you can tell....that....they may just be in love......  Thanks everyone for the help. Will post updates when I can.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

OP= original poster

How big is your tank again? might need a lot more water changes. At that tiny age, baby betta fish usually do fine with each other, that is how they grow up usually, then the more aggressive males are separated once they start showing aggression. I really do recommend a 100% water change atleast every two days, they will grow faster too. I set aside a large gallon bottle of pre treated water just for that purpose.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Tank holds a little over a liter. It's small. But I plan on doing water changes frequently, and also already have my eye on a larger tank. Don't worry, these babies are in good hands.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

Oh and thank you bahamut for pointing out people having their own conversations on here and derailing my thread. Glad someone besides me noticed and cared enough to say something. Right on.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well as long as it's not just "half water change" then you should be fine. Even if you do a "half water change" every day, the ammonia will build up. Also apparently water changes will change out growth inhibiting phermones released into the water, and encourages fish growth.


I'm keeping mine in a jar, with plants, substrate and kept in the warmest room of my house (the shoe room with the water boiler and heater) ~84F  it's growing much faster than when I kept it in my room ~75, temperature is also much steadier. 

you just reminded me to post my own photos, I've neglected to do that for too long.


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## BettaBaybee (May 8, 2012)

A full water change? Are you sure? If that's the best thing then I will do it, but I was afraid to because of such a shock to all new water. Thought it was important to not do that.


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## Micho (Aug 22, 2011)

. . . . :T

Your tank isn't even suitable for one Betta why buy ANOTHER one? I'm sorry but if this sounds mean or hurtful, but your tank only holds 0.3g, that is not enough! Even for a single Betta, even if it is a baby! I highly suggest you upgrade, buying another one was not a good idea. 

0.3g is not enough to house 2 Bettas. Also 50% water changes are not enough, 100% everyday, I'm still wondering how you're properly heating the tank. .


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

BettaBaybee said:


> A full water change? Are you sure? If that's the best thing then I will do it, but I was afraid to because of such a shock to all new water. Thought it was important to not do that.


True for other fish.... but all the bettas I've had before have only been happier after their water changes. And I always do 100%. I've heard of fish being stressed out about it, given all the individual personalities they have, I definitely think its possible. However I always keep my temperature as accurate as possible to the original temperature, no stressed out fish yet. 

I recommend you take out the gravel if its too much hassle to clean it out every time. wait till they are bigger and when you get a bigger tank to put in all the decorations, they will probably appreciate that swimming space.


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> Ask a breeder. No they don't. Water temp is usually a few degrees lower than room temp. That puts your water at roughly 71F. This is too cold for a betta. Most breeders keep their tanks around 80F. Betta are tropical fish and need heaters. The babies especially because it promotes healthy growth.
> 
> As for the size of the tank. We suggest you get a larger one not just for living room but to dilute wastes. When fish eat they produce ammonia which is toxic to them. In a small container of water, ammonia builds up fast and does kill fish (I see this most often with goldfish in gallon bowls). It will also dilute the hormone that babies produce to stunt growth. The water should be changed daily to prevent the buildup of this hormone.


Breeder here...babies must stay around 80*F for proper growth. I did an experiment to see the effects of warm vs cool water temps. Result, I have 3 month olds smaller then your girl, and I have 1.5 months old larger then your girl. Can you guess which were kept at at 76* and which were kept at 80*?

I keep my jarred juvies in 32 oz warm mason jars and they get water changes every day to every other day.

Using "spring" water. IS it spring water or is it RO water? I'd suggest buying 1g of RO water and use Prime in your tap water and do 1/2 - 1/2. I ONLY use Prime and Tap Water. For my spawn/growout (fry) tanks, I'll add salt for velvet/ich.

To me it looks like a female. Males will have a bit longer ventrals. I had a friend/Breeder buy one of these babies. After 3 months of proper care, the fish STILL hasn't grown. I think they are the runts of the broods and it will take them a long time, if they ever, to grow to full sized. My show Male "Little Man" (overacoppermoon.com - Boys) was the runt of a brood. He is still much smaller then his brother (now granted his brother is a week older).

Good Luck with Tiny!!! I'd keep her in a smaller tank and change her water every day. Feed 3x a day, 1 pellet at a time until she refuses to eat any more, but she is your fish. If you want to upgrade to a 1g tank that is fine, but I'd still suggest daily water changes. The most important thing to raising a baby Betta is to keep the water warm, clean and well fed).

Lori


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## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

I would never have put another betta in with the baby, especially in such a tiny unheated tank. You may wake up to a dead baby. Sorry if this derails your thread. JMHO.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

^ that explains quite a bit for me. the DT i have in my avy is huge and he's in water that is 80F. i got him at 6mths old but hes already pushing 2.5-3 inches. my first betta is 3 inches for sure already given he doesnt munch on his tail too much.


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

Finally got through all 8 pages (as on pg 3 when I posted). Everyone that said to have you tap water tested is correct. I have city water but right across the Farm to Market road there is well water. I much prefer the well water over the HEAVILY treated city water but I'm stuck unless I move.

That "betta breeder" as they used to be called, are a PITA to clean. Big enough for 1 fish with DAILY water changes, but not 2. The fish hanging out together...not good. Having kept a sorority in a 75g with 15 girls, when they hang out together, they are sizing each other up.

Most breeders keep even adults in 32 oz mason jars. Beanies (top load Ty Beanie display cases) are just too expensive for the "average" breeder to buy. At $1.50 each, and you order 400, the shipping will raise the cost of those beanies from $600 to about $800 unless you live close enough to pick up....a little off subject sry. IF you are going to keep more then 1 female betta (sorority), then you need to get no less then a 20g (30g is better) and put 6-10 girls in there with LOTS of live plants for them to hide in.

As far as the water changes...do you drink milk that comes in a gallon jug? Keep it with the lid, bleach it out, rinse it out until you no longer smell bleach, then rinse it again and let it air dry for 24 hrs. Fill with your tap water and 3 drops of Prime (just to be sure), put the lid on it....BAM you have tomorrow's water change!!! I have almost 20 Arizona Tea jugs (my boss drinks that stuff) that I keep full ALL the time. The Tea jugs are a heavier plastic then the milk jugs...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Really I would think you can save some money if you returned the tiny tank (which probably costed a fortune in relation to sie) and used a larger tupper ware container. At discount stores I can get a large 1/2 gallon Jar for $3. Now if you up that to a 1 gallon jar, you can get one of those small heaters and use that. I don't know where you are, but craigslist is great when looking for tanks. I saw a listing the other day selling a 2.5 gallon bowl for $10 (or was it 15). if you can figure out a way to divide something like that, t will work out for both your fish =D.


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## Coppermoon (May 8, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Really I would think you can save some money if you returned the tiny tank (which probably costed a fortune in relation to sie) and used a larger tupper ware container. At discount stores I can get a large 1/2 gallon Jar for $3. Now if you up that to a 1 gallon jar, you can get one of those small heaters and use that. I don't know where you are, but craigslist is great when looking for tanks. I saw a listing the other day selling a 2.5 gallon bowl for $10 (or was it 15). if you can figure out a way to divide something like that, t will work out for both your fish =D.


Price of those Betta Keepers...I bought them because they stack...that didn't work...I had to unstack them to change water and feed...not smart on my part. Cost back in 06 was like $9.99 in Texas!!!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

i want to make jars with taps. just to make life easier.... I'll keep dreaming >.>


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## ravenwinds (Feb 5, 2012)

Great advice aokashi! Definitely 100% water change everyday! Take out gravel so it's easier on you during water changes, and so your babies have more swimming space. You really do need to upgrade...with 2 bettas, I suggest a 5gallon, get an adjustable heater, set it at 80-82 degrees F.
At juvenile stage, they need room to swim, heated water, and frequent water changes of 100%...it's one of the reasons that we worry so much about the delicate babies that Petco sells.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Breeders, maybe discuss breeding methods in the breeding section? 



BettaBaybee said:


> Hey, this isn't OP's thread, it's miiiine!!! LOL.....
> SO, update: I decided to use tap water and Betta water conditioner. I also purchased a small beautiful blue and striped veiltail female, "Dory", and the two of them love each other and have beem swimming peacefully close to each other ever since I put them together. They seem to have really bonded, and don't separate much, which I figured. Only thing is, the more I look at Tiny, I think he is a male. So I will keep a close eye on him as he grows and if I see ANY aggressiveness toward Dory, she will get a separate apartment  I will do a half water change every other day to every 3 days to keep ammonia down since there are 2 fishies in there now. They seem very happy and content and have perked up a lot since having company. Goes to show sometimes, even if people advise against it, you just have to try something yourself if you have a gut instinct about it. So far, SO GREAT! They are so cute together, you can tell....that....they may just be in love......  Thanks everyone for the help. Will post updates when I can.


I'm sorry to say, but your gut instinct was way off base. I'm not sure why you would trust a gut instinct over people's decades of research, but quite frankly, I think you are putting your fish at risk.

Firstly, your tank is tiny. Ammonia from just one fish will be building up fast enough that you should be doing at least 50% water changes every second day, and 100% water changes on the days in between. Surely you have something in your house larger than one litre - even a big mixing bowl with some clingfilm for a lid would be safer. 
Another risk from the tiny space is that the bettas cannot form their own territories. Whilst this may not be a problem if they are under 3 months, at 3 months old bettas start to develop their territorial instinct and do attack each other. If Dory is still stripy, that's a bad sign - horizontal stripes are generally an indicator of stress. 

Secondly, without a heater, buying a second fish was not a good idea. The first one is already too cold - why subject a second fish to that?

Thirdly, bettas, regardless of gender combinations, are not supposed to live in pairs. In the wild, males stay in one spot, away from other males, and make it their own. Females travel, alone, between the males, to mate. They do not live together. When two bettas meet, they will attempt to intimidate each other, possibly even fight, until one flees. Keeping any bettas together is unnatural. A balance can be acheived in a sorority with dense planting to mimic the natural environment, and a large number of girls (never less than four) to create a hierarchy. With two, there is no hierachy - just an agressor and a victim. It is extremely unsafe to keep two together. Even a sorority is unnatural and is a balancing act - trying to trick bettas into thinking that they are living naturally. 

I strongly advise that you return Dory. If not, get two 5 gallons with heaters and filters ASAP. As has been mentioned so many times, juvenile bettas are delicate. Cold water and poor water quality in this stage of their development could give them all sorts of problems down the track. The right care is absolutely vital at all stages, but at this stage more than any. 

You've been given some great advice here from people who have been keeping and studying bettas for years. Please listen to it.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Not to mention you've now doubled your amount of stunting hormone being produced in such a small space.
Has no one brought this up? Oh wait, I did way on page one. Clearly you haven't taken that into consideration. I'm sure these betta are still emitting it.
I already explained it. Now you have twice as much hormone, harming two fish, and should be doing 100% water changes twice daily, I would say, in such a tiny space.

And also, hate to be frank, but one day soon if you continue to keep them together, you will come home to one beat up and one dead, at the very best. Their fighting instincts will kick in. Females fight females, males fight males, females fight males. There's no safe combo (except 5 females in a 10 gallon tank heavily planted- and even this is a ticking time bomb and often ends badly, as Bomba mentioned). It's like roosters- they all run around together when they're cute chicks, but they will start fighting each other once they start approaching sexual maturity.
Especially in such a SMALL space. This is only increasing the pressure for them to be in control of the territory, the small patch of water they live in. 

Also, please listen to this advice. These people know what they are talking about. Not listening to advice when it comes to fish leads to "learning the hard way."


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## JennybugJennifer (Apr 16, 2012)

I agree with everything said here. 
I'm far better with chihuahuas than Bettas but I took all the advice I got here and my fish are happy boys. I had one oops and even then the people giving advice here predicted it. They seriously know what they're talking about.


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