# Hagen Elite Mini Submergeable Filter



## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Ok, I went against my better judgement and instead of buying a sponge filter I bought the Hagen elite mini. It is very powerful but I got it down to a dull roar at least until I followed Hagens advice. Before I bring it back I thought I would ask everyone's opinion. Can the filter run without the plastic airline tube? It ran all day like that, and installed close to the bottom of the tank. Hagen hummed and hawed when I asked if the tube could be removed. Anyone had success running it this way? I can't see the harm, the connection cannot be water tight but I'm no expert. PS to have the tube connected so water does not go up it the filter has to be just under the water level making the current even more powerful. 

Thanks


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

I am not familiar with this so can't give you an answer. But if it is air driven, how would you use it without the air line tubing? Going to google, maybe I can help if I see what it is.
OK, I looked at a few youtube videos. Honestly from what I see it is very strong, and I can't tell you if you could run it without the tubing. If I were in your situation, I wouldn't deal with the hassle and return it. I tgink you would have much better luck with the sponge filter. Or you could look into a HOB nano filter like the Deep Blue Biomaxx. I use both sponge and the HOB and like both.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks for responding, I've gotten myself all frustrated trying to figure this out. 

The filter has a nozzle where the water comes out. On top of it there is a small valve where you hook the little air tube line. The line is supposed to allow air to travel down the tube and into the filter for extra aeration. Hagen says the tube is supposed to be completely out of the water meaning the water flow is just under the water line. I ran the filter all day without the tube attached and with the filter pushed down in the tank. They could not give me a straight answer as to if this was ok. I don't see why not but I'm not an engineer. I'm ready to bring it back but honestly if I can use it the way I want I would rather keep it. This guy I want to get back into the main tank but every time I try he bites his tail so I'm not sure which way to turn.

http://www.amazon.ca/Elite-Underwater-Mini-Filter-Listed/dp/B0009YD7D4


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## Hpeplau (Dec 25, 2014)

Your filter is very similar to one that I got. I will add a link. The photo does not show the tube on top but it is exactly the same tube with a little black "ball" that can be adjusted open or closed. If you read the questions and some of the reviews you will see that some people do just take the tube off. 

I have mine running in the guppy tank (to try to get some of the BB before I put it in the future betta tank) and have not taken it off yet but probably will.

I have a larger one for the guppy tank and really like the design.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RM1882/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

I have that filter and have used it in the past without the airline tube, but it is, as you say, extremely powerful and I won't use it again with bettas.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hi thanks for the info about removing the tube. I tried googling but I'm stuck using my cell data so I can't dig in enough as I'd like to unless I'm out on free wifi. Do you have your filter lower than recommended? They are quite similar. 




Hpeplau said:


> Your filter is very similar to one that I got. I will add a link. The photo does not show the tube on top but it is exactly the same tube with a little black "ball" that can be adjusted open or closed. If you read the questions and some of the reviews you will see that some people do just take the tube off.
> 
> I have mine running in the guppy tank (to try to get some of the BB before I put it in the future betta tank) and have not taken it off yet but probably will.
> 
> ...


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

selah said:


> I have that filter and have used it in the past without the airline tube, but it is, as you say, extremely powerful and I won't use it again with bettas.





When you used it without the tube did you also submerge it deeper than recommended? It's surprising how strong it is. As this is going to be a spare tank for now to make this filter work will be 20 to replace it will be 40. I don't mind spending the money if absolutely necessary but the amount I've invested to make this one happy is getting excessive. It's manageable if running it the way I want.


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

I don't remember how far they recommended to submerge it, but I did try it earlier with one of my girls and submerged it about 4 inches below the surface but it was too strong even with the flow turned to the wall so I took it out.. what size is the tank you are putting it in? would you use an HOB? this one is excellent, its pricey but worth it.

http://www.amazon.ca/Mignon-Filter-...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1423068567&sr=1-1&keywords=azoo

editing to add, the replacement sponges for that Elite filter are available, but they are so small that I wonder just how much filtering it can do and really don't know why they made it that powerful.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

selah said:


> I don't remember how far they recommended to submerge it, but I did try it earlier with one of my girls and submerged it about 4 inches below the surface but it was too strong even with the flow turned to the wall so I took it out.. what size is the tank you are putting it in? would you use an HOB? this one is excellent, its pricey but worth it.
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Mignon-Filter-...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1423068567&sr=1-1&keywords=azoo
> 
> editing to add, the replacement sponges for that Elite filter are available, but they are so small that I wonder just how much filtering it can do and really don't know why they made it that powerful.


Thank you for the link


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## Fourthwind (Jan 28, 2015)

This is just like the power heads I use to use. The air is significant for fish that require the oxygen in the water. It does *not *need to be there to operate. As for the flow issue, I would just baffle it. I have not seen the size of the sponge, so I cannot say if it is enough for the tank, but I do believe if you baffle the outflow you can make it work for you as far the flow goes. I took a coarse aquarium sponge media and cut a whole in one end so I could slip it over the nozzle of my system. Also wrapped it in mesh plastic so there were no ruff edges to tear fins.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

I have this filter, I hate it. I tried multiple ways to baffle it and none worked. I'd honestly just return it. It's a piece of junk.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who responded. I came home tonight and the fish bite his tail today, he made the decision the filter goes back.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

One of my boys bit his tail because of it before


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Tress said:


> One of my boys bit his tail because of it before



I can see why, it seemed to work ok but way too strong. I'm at the end of my rope with this guy. Nothing makes him happy and as much as I like him I'm thinking I should have left him at the LFS. I may take him back, I don't know. Looks like he will have to stay in an unfiltered tank. The pretty ones are the most trouble.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

That sounds like me when I had Shreddy. He glass surfed endlessly and then started trimming his tail regularly. I just gave up and let him be. Don't return him, give him time. Or maybe you can offer him up for adoption locally through the site if you feel you can't deal with his issues? I know there are at least a few BC people on here.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Tress said:


> That sounds like me when I had Shreddy. He glass surfed endlessly and then started trimming his tail regularly. I just gave up and let him be. Don't return him, give him time. Or maybe you can offer him up for adoption locally through the site if you feel you can't deal with his issues? I know there are at least a few BC people on here.



Thanks for the suggestion but I think I'm coming to terms with "it's just the way he is". I couldnt give the neroutic guy away now, I like him. I'm just going to do as you did, let him be how he's going to be and stop trying to "fix everything" he's still a beautiful fish but high maintenance (if I let him be)

Would you put him back in his main tank where most of the damage was done or leave him in unfiltered tank where the least amount of damage was done?


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

You will want to keep his water clean during his biting episodes so which ever is easier to maintain. One that you're not going to have to change around much cause sometimes that can set him off. Over time you might see what triggers him and lessen the behavior. Sometimes its counter intuitive. 

My betta Ruben started biting after I had to remove his neighbor from a divided tank. Both would flare and show off to each other. He instantly started biting and didn't stop till he took off over half his tail. I tried everything, even moving in a new neighbor. I gave up and moved him into the end section and now that he as room to surf the glass he is leaving his tail alone and it's healing nicely. I think Ruben's would be classed as boredum biting.

Either way, I'm glad you're keeping him. This is your white EE boy right?


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Tress said:


> You will want to keep his water clean during his biting episodes so which ever is easier to maintain. One that you're not going to have to change around much cause sometimes that can set him off. Over time you might see what triggers him and lessen the behavior. Sometimes its counter intuitive.
> 
> My betta Ruben started biting after I had to remove his neighbor from a divided tank. Both would flare and show off to each other. He instantly started biting and didn't stop till he took off over half his tail. I tried everything, even moving in a new neighbor. I gave up and moved him into the end section and now that he as room to surf the glass he is leaving his tail alone and it's healing nicely. I think Ruben's would be classed as boredum biting.
> 
> Either way, I'm glad you're keeping him. This is your white EE boy right?


Wow, you've been there and done that. 

Yes snowden (aka bad boy the white one


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Been there, done that for sure.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Poor guy.

Hey I'm from Ontario too


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Really? That's cool :3


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I'm kinda off topic here but could one reason they bite is they don't like a filter no matter how gentle the flow? He was in a spec that I rigged and was in a fish tank with a strong flow when I bought him but this is the last explanation I can find.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Very possible, I've heard a few people with that problem. What about a sponge filter? Maybe ask in the care section if anyone who had a similar problem found a filter that worked? Though you could go unfiltered and just do more water changes but that would be such a pain...

Ah bettas... why must you be so fincky!


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

It would be a pain, royally. 

Just took this one.
Top fin getting worse.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I will look into the sponge this weekend


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I've heard that the Hagen Mini carries the internals of a pump for a tabletop waterfall decoration. Yeah, it's powerful! That tube is to suck in air for aeration. Works without it.

I have two and I'm not too happy with them. They are not easy to baffle. Fourthwind's method works and adds sponge volume for the bacteria colony. The stock sponge is too small and too coarse. I used a foam tube. But it's still too much trouble. They are quiet and (unfortunately) reliable. I'll replace mine when they break -- probably a long time from now.

I'd return it if i could. That Mignon is a good recommendation. So is the Azoo Palm (same thing, I think. 

A sponge filter is best. 

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ts-accessories/sponge-filter-tutorial-318602/


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's help and patient advice. I took the hagen elite back and purchased a fusion air pump with flow control, a sponge filter, a check valve and airline tubing. The fish store agreed with everyone that I couldn't get much gentler than it. God help me if he has an issue with this filter, the supplies cost me 40.00. I could have bought a 5.00 pump but we all know what that would be like. Can't wait to try this tomorrow. Yay! No more 100% WC


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Just so I can keep track, what brand sponge filter did you get?

You can easily cut the flow from a sponge filter by poking pinholes in the airline near the pump. Go easy, you want flow for the bacteria to flourish.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> Just so I can keep track, what brand sponge filter did you get?
> 
> You can easily cut the flow from a sponge filter by poking pinholes in the airline near the pump. Go easy, you want flow for the bacteria to flourish.


It's the smallest filter they had. They used it in their tanks.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Here the description on box


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hmmm it's kinda big now I see that elite one in the sponge filter tutorial. I looked in a few stores and didn't find a smaller one.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I think I have to take this pump back. The guy is swimming around it but I just read its for up to 40 gallons. He's in a 2.5. Can someone with experience help? I bought the fusion 400. I saw another pump for 2-5 gallons. Would that be better?


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## Kaxen (Mar 3, 2013)

I use a Fusion 200 in my 5.5gallon. You can also add an air control valve to lower the flow.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I'm about to beat my head against the wall with this fish. I just looked at receipt and I can only exchange it no refund and it's an hour away. I've poked holes in the airline tube. Which has reduced it quite abit but I have no idea if it's enoufh, I've never owned one.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Can you guys see the video? Is this what you'd expect to see?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

The filter you show in previous posts will work fine IF the riser tube (the large clear stiff tube) sits under the surface by about an inch or less. I guess that should have been made clear in the tutorial. 

I use the Tetra Whisper 10 airpump. It runs two sponge filters in 3.5 g tanks. That Fusion 400 sounds like overkill for a 2.5g tank. And you don't need the air adjuster feature. The fusion 200 would be more appropriate. Fusion makes a good pump. It is quiet, or so I hear.

It is kind of hard to find filters and heaters for small (<5g) tanks. <sigh>

I can't view your video.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I was waiting for you to gime in. I poke a lot of holes in the tube and he's swimming on top. I'll bring it back tomorrow and exchange it for the 200. It's what I had in my hand but "they" talked me out of it. It is not quiet by any means. Would you suggest the whisper than? They had them as well. Ps I can't use the riser tube my tank is too low. They said I could use without it? If only he could have adjusted to the spec I wouldn't have these issues


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I can get the 200 which is good for up to 20 gallons or the whisper that's good for ten gallons. Either way I'm buying the flow adjuster valve. I have to have this rectified tomorrow or I give up and he's living in a bowl. Seriously too much stress over my fish. So tetra 10 or fusion 200. I don't care which I just need it to be done


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I'd get the Whisper. I know it's acceptably quiet, also reliable. The sponge filter works poorly without the riser tube. Find a shorter one. Like this one: Internal Sponge Filter CAF-10

Or the Hagen Elite model. Which may need to be shortened, but it's easy.

In any case, measure your tank depth to the waterline. Find one that's shorter than that.

I know sponge filters are a pain to purchase and set-up. But it's worth it in the long run.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> I'd get the Whisper. I know it's acceptably quiet, also reliable. The sponge filter works poorly without the riser tube. Find a shorter one. Like this one: Internal Sponge Filter CAF-10
> 
> Or the Hagen Elite model. Which may need to be shortened, but it's easy.
> 
> ...


In not impressed I have to go out of my way to return it but I will and will get the whisper. I'll take the tube to work and see if they can cut it. Thanks for your help


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> I'd get the Whisper. I know it's acceptably quiet, also reliable. The sponge filter works poorly without the riser tube. Find a shorter one. Like this one: Internal Sponge Filter CAF-10
> 
> Or the Hagen Elite model. Which may need to be shortened, but it's easy.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I just hooked up the whisper and it's going well!ill bring the filter tube to work tomorrow so the shop can shorten it for me. The filter is a little big but it will do until I find the smaller one. I can rest now knowing his conditions are better for him (and easier for me)


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

The shop guy just cut the rise tube for me so that I can use it. Why are the filters useless without them? Mine is so short, probably an inch but it will bring it to aprox 1" from the water line.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

The longer the riser tube, the more efficient it is at pumping water. As long as you have enough flow to bring water to the bacteria colony living in the filter media, you're fine.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

The filter you provided the link for would be perfect. My aquarium is about 7" high but shipping is 22 something to Canada. I can't find anything like it locally. Mine as big as it is is the best I've found but it's only a sponge. I found this one but I don't think its the greatest?

Elite Sponge Filter

I have the the plastic attachment on, it's only about an inch high but I made it to be aprox 1" under the water level. I don't think sponge filters are popular in Canada? But good news, he hasn't bite his tail with the flow. Thank you for that. I hope what I'm doing is ok.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That Elite sponge filter doesn't have as much foam as the one you're using now. The smaller the tank, the more bacteria lives in the filter. Larger tanks have more wall surface, plants and substrate for the bacteria to also live in.

Your setup might not have as much flow as is optimum. But is has lots of volume for the bacteria colony to live in. It should be quiet and reliable. You should be starting to cycle your tank now. Let us know how it works.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ssories/cycling-two-sentence-tutorial-506714/


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> That Elite sponge filter doesn't have as much foam as the one you're using now. The smaller the tank, the more bacteria lives in the filter. Larger tanks have more wall surface, plants and substrate for the bacteria to also live in.
> 
> Your setup might not have as much flow as is optimum. But is has lots of volume for the bacteria colony to live in. It should be quiet and reliable. You should be starting to cycle your tank now. Let us know how it works.
> 
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...ssories/cycling-two-sentence-tutorial-506714/


Thank you hallyx, I apologize for all the questions. Does this flow seem ok? I've reduced it quite a bit. 

http://youtu.be/oGVpwTSCFxg

I've never uploaded a video before. Still is processing


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

I think there's a problem with the videos. 

http://youtu.be/3MepO9AyOWI


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

My 44kpbs pooter doesn't do videos anyway. 

The idea is to get as much flow as you can without irritating your fish. Sounds like you've got it about right.

Let me know how your cycle goes.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> My 44kpbs pooter doesn't do videos anyway.
> 
> The idea is to get as much flow as you can without irritating your fish. Sounds like you've got it about right.
> 
> Let me know how your cycle goes.



I'm not sure about replacement parts but what do you think?

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00JQ9...nge+filter&dpPl=1&dpID=41STNuNZeEL&ref=plSrch


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

cowboy said:


> I'm not sure about replacement parts but what do you think?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00JQ9...nge+filter&dpPl=1&dpID=41STNuNZeEL&ref=plSrch




Or

https://ca-en.hagen.com/Aquatic/Filtration/Internal/10894


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That Uxcell Round is the same as the CAF-10 I recommended. Several members have those in small tanks and like them. Good price, too. Use an airstone on the end of the airline for improved efficiency.

The Marina corner filter works on the same principle. But I like the Uxcell better for your small tank.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> That Uxcell Round is the same as the CAF-10 I recommended. Several members have those in small tanks and like them. Good price, too. Use an airstone on the end of the airline for improved efficiency.
> 
> The Marina corner filter works on the same principle. But I like the Uxcell better for your small tank.




I'll order it. Thanks. His big one is ok but the thing is massive.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

cowboy said:


> I'll order it. Thanks. His big one is ok but the thing is massive.



I am really stupid when it comes to a filter that's not a spec filter. I looked at the picture and am having trouble understanding where an air stone goes. Is it absolutely necessary? Do bubbles come out like with my pure foam one. I'll check back with you when I get it. It says shipped in 3-4 days but I wouldn't get it til April. Must be coming from China.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah. Let me know. I'm interested in learning more about that one.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

While I am waiting for the small recommended filter I found this one after going to MANY fish stores. It's the same diameter as the last one but is shorter and accommodates the entire tube. I really don't think sponge filters are popular in the lower mainland of bc.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Here's the size of the last one with the largely modified tube length.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That looks like the Jardin with the 7/8 in riser tube. It's just the right height.


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## cowboy (Apr 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> That looks like the Jardin with the 7/8 in riser tube. It's just the right height.


These sponges are all from China. They don't list dimensions on the box but you are probably right. I think the whole thing measured 6-6.5" oal. I think the brand might be oista. It's still a bit wide but it works. I've saved the big one because I can take the sponge off, cut it and put on the new one. I believe they are the same diameter. But than again they are so cheap I will probably toss it. 

Hmm just looked at the other ones box and they both say small and are the same brand. 

He hasn't but his tail since I've had it and reduces my work load. Thanks for all the help

For anyone wanting to try one they stay down because of the heavy base (thanks to the person who said you had to squeeze the water out the first time) they seem yo work good but I need to take a water sample in to see what the paraneters are. It's only been running since Sunday.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That ought to work. 

I heard you can use an airstone with that. See if there's a nipple on the air outlet in the filter. You can splice an airstone onto that. At least that's how the ATI Hydro works.
An airstone is optional. Just makes it a little more efficient.

Keep us updated on this thread.


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