# has anyone ever tried not removing the dad method?



## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

my bf really want's to breed bettas .. and came across this article

part 1
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=809

part 2
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=839
 
has anyone ever tried this .. and would like to share your thoughts and experience with me? using this method over the general remove the dad method?

*edit* i duno why part 2 is not showing up as a link x_x


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, I have heard of people on here doing one of the following:

removing the dad when the fry are still hanging from the nest because he is eating them.

removing the dad when the fry is free swimming because he eats them.

keeping the dad in there until the fry are ready to be jarred, as he does not eat them.

I think it really depends on the male  Some males their first time will eat the eggs or destroy the nest...


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

well .. the point of that article's "experiment" or how he calls it .. was to leave the dad in there to eat the weaker bettas .. i think he left him in there for like 3 months or something .. till the head female started dominating the tank and trying to mate with the dad .. and that's when he separated them .. i don't know how this method works .. so far everything i read .. is people jarring asap .. so daddie doesn't eat them


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, people also say "oh I want to take him out because he is eating some of the eggs". Except that, if it isn't the male's first time and he has had successful spawns before, he may be eating the eggs that are infertile or infected with something.

I think the experiment has a point, because fish do know more than we will, especially about their own kind!!  And plus, I will note with balloon mollies especially... separating the fry, causes lazy fry. Keeping them with the parents, with floating plants and such create fast growing, stronger fish - clear of deformities (usually eaten)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

On my inside spawns-depending on my plan for the male....I generally leave the male with the fry long term...if I need that male for another spawn right away he is removed anywhere from the day he spawns to free swim stage or I remove the eggs to artificial hatch to spawn in that spawning tank again...just depends on how many spawns I need from him....

In my outside summer spawning-I leave the male and female together all summer and remove the fry as they grow big enough to eat their younger siblings from the multi spawns (new spawn every 3 days)......

I also spawn using a more natural method....both inside and out......


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

ooo !! OFL that's really cool .. so your spawn outside will just constantly be spawning ? .. what do you do when the female stops making eggs to spawn ? .. do you take her out ? .. also what about the females ? .. do they ever try to mate with dad ? do you take them out when that happens? .. or any siblings try to mate with each other?

also how different is it spawning indoors vs. outdoors? also .. how do you create this more natural method to spawn ? =D i'd rather do that too !!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Females don't stop making eggs...they will have eggs non stop until they die...

I remove the fry as they grow...I have never seen any issues with the female eating fry...but the older/larger fry will fed on the smaller/younger fry and so I separate them by size...I will have 3-5 different 5gal buckets that I move fry to before I move them in the house.

I keep all natural planted soil based tanks...massive planted-full to the top with water that I spawn in the house...most are 10gal-but I also spawn in NPT 5gal and 20gal...since the tanks are really mature-they have lots of microorganism for free range fry food for the first 2-3 weeks.....

Outside I use 5gal buckets full to the top with lots of rooted plants that I let float since the only substrate is oak leaf litter and this also make the water really tanned and dark....easy to find the white fry but a bit harder to spot the dark body fry....lol......


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm these are very interesting methods I am reading =D Personally, here, there are only perhaps 3-4 months of warm enough weather (welcome to alberta...) to do that outside. Of course, include freak storms, and the occasional surprise 2.5 hurricane winds (and higher seen) D: it's easier and better for me to have them indoors lol!!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've noticed that when the father is kept in with them they grow faster. I have even removed the father and replaced him when the fry reached adulthood and he maintained the peace.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah I have not noticed it with spawning - as I only had the first time dad who nommed the eggs lol. But I will note for my females, even. Marge has grown, within a week, double her size, where while in her bowl alone in the store she stayed the same size for 2 and some months!!!

I also have seen it with fry, from other fish. leave the fry, survival of the fittest. Get strong fish, healthy fish....  IMO


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Every individual betta has its own character and habits. Some are psychotic egg/fry eaters while others are good parents. And occasionally a once good parent may turn psychotic and eat his batch. So which method to use really depends on the male's character. Usually if he takes care of his eggs, he should care for his fry - unless disturbed too much.

I now believe that the male somehow feeds his fry (if left with fry). This may explain why fry usually grows faster when daddy's around. BUT if the spawn is very important to you, it is safer to take daddy out once fry are free swimming.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree Indjo some of these guys are psyco and unpredictable sometimes...lol.....and the male will feed the fry...I have seen it...they will blow the food toward the fry via mouth and gills.....neat to see.......

I have about 3-4 month of weather that is warm enough for them.....maybe pushing 4.5 months but the night time temp get a bit cool....when the water temp drop to 60'sF for more than 3 days...I start bringing them in the house...I brought all but one breeding trio inside last week......my last batch of fry withstood a rain storm and 62F water for 2 days before I brought them in and now they are fine...they looked pretty sad/lethargic-but would perk up nicely once the water got to 72F-but that was the warmest it would get...so they had to come in the house.....and over the summer the water temp was well over 100F during the heat of the day and cool off to the 90F at night-every year is different-one year it rained all the time and this year we had a drought and heat wave.....good thing the water temp was different at different levels of the buckets....outside spawning sometimes will fair better in deeper water IME.....
Healthy Bettas and fry are a lot tougher than you think.....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh, I know some can be tough  but hey, still learning, right? If I had a place outside (renting sucks) it'd be nice lol


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I like to think I learn something new every day...if not...I may be dead....lol.....


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

.... well then, stay alive and learn more xD


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## roadplug (Sep 1, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> I like to think I learn something new every day...if not...I may be dead....lol.....



LOL, Me too ^.^)
I thought I'd take this opportunity to thank you, I live reading about your outside spawns and you give great info - 
{others here do to}
I have learned a lot 
[still have a ways to go ] :-D


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I wouldn't mind trying to leave the father with the fry.... we'll see if he eats the eggs or not lol. The I'll keep a good eye on him


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

great info everyone !! .. we still have a ways to go .. planning wise .. before breeding .. still want to get as much info as i can .. also how do u find housing for the babies? .. do you post them on aquabid? .. sell to local fish stores ? .. or sell to people that contact you ?

i mean if it takes like 3 days to spawn .. and about 3 months to grow .. that means you have like 100's of babies that didn't get eaten?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

You can have usually between 5 and 200 live USUALLY though higher numbers were recorded. Ask pet and fish stores in your area if they will take some. On here, aqua bid, in your newspaper even, you can find homes. Take in mind you'll probably have some unable to find homes so has a plan B


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Oldfishlady said:


> I agree Indjo some of these guys are psyco and unpredictable sometimes...lol.....and the male will feed the fry...I have seen it...they will blow the food toward the fry via mouth and gills.....neat to see.......
> 
> I have about 3-4 month of weather that is warm enough for them.....maybe pushing 4.5 months but the night time temp get a bit cool....when the water temp drop to 60'sF for more than 3 days...I start bringing them in the house...I brought all but one breeding trio inside last week......my last batch of fry withstood a rain storm and 62F water for 2 days before I brought them in and now they are fine...they looked pretty sad/lethargic-but would perk up nicely once the water got to 72F-but that was the warmest it would get...so they had to come in the house.....and over the summer the water temp was well over 100F during the heat of the day and cool off to the 90F at night-every year is different-one year it rained all the time and this year we had a drought and heat wave.....good thing the water temp was different at different levels of the buckets....outside spawning sometimes will fair better in deeper water IME.....
> Healthy Bettas and fry are a lot tougher than you think.....


Psycho and unpredictable, like some of us humans. lol


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## copperarabian (Apr 27, 2011)

That's cool the male will feed the fry  A lot of cichlids(who are pretty fantastic parents) will chew up food and spit it out for there small fry. When I try spawning a pair again I might try this.


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