# Frustrated and Giving Up!



## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I spent a year fighting fin rot with Neptune before he eventually passed, and have been fighting popeye with Alfie on and off (nothing has put a dent in it this time). Then about 3 days ago Marius started acting lethargic (no other signs). I cupped him, and have him floating in the tank (which is 3 ways divided). Then last night when I went to feed I noticed Ranger (who is in the same tank as Marius) was acting lethargic and pale. I cupped him too while I tried to decide what was causing their symptoms. Tonight when I went to feed I noticed Ranger has died. Marius is still alive but looks on the verge of death. Neither have any external signs, bloating, etc.. Marius isn't even pale. Ugh! The third fish Teddy isn't showing any signs of anything yet. But tomorrow I"m tearing down the tank and putting Teddy in his own 2.5 g. I'm so frustrated. Ranger has always been a healthy fish, and even was jumping out of the water catching his pellets on Wed night. 

After Neptune's death I was already losing my passion for Betta Fish, but now with Ranger dead too, and Marius clearly on the verge of death I'm just over it. I've already decided I'm done rescuing. :-(


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

Sounds like it might be cloumnaris. I am treating that myself right now. I am using kanaplex and neoplex and have read adding metronazole or furan-2 to my current treatment will help combat the most resistant infection. Maybe you could give antibiotics a go before you completely give up.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

April R said:


> Sounds like it might be cloumnaris. I am treating that myself right now. I am using kanaplex and neoplex and have read adding metronazole or furan-2 to my current treatment will help combat the most resistant infection. Maybe you could give antibiotics a go before you completely give up.


It's not columnaris I've treated that many times before in rescues. There should be a sign of an external clear/white fuzzy.My fish have absolutely no external signs of distress. There is nothing different about Marius except he is extremely lethargic, he's not even changing colors (and he's a very dark blue). Ranger did turn very pale before passing, but beyond that and lethargy there is no signs of what could be wrong. I have no idea what antibiotic to treat with since I don't know what's wrong. I'm not giving up on trying to save them, but I am giving up on Betta Fish, or at least taking a break once all these fish die. I'm just tried of constantly dealing with sick fish. Once Neptune died I thought the only sick fish I'd have to deal with for a while was Alfie. Now, I have this problem. 

Then on top of these two, I do have a chronic biter (who I can't seem to stop no matter what I try), and another fish with buoyancy problems that I can't seem to figure out (although she doesn't seem stressed or bothered by it, and she uses the decorations in her tank to stop her floating up. Neither are "sick" or going to die from these problems but it just compounds all the frustration I have with the others.

ETA: The crazy thing about Ranger is he died within 24hours of his symptoms appearing. I've never had a fish die that quickly (less than 24 hours between symptoms appearing and death). The tank has been running for a year now, with all the same fish and nothing added. But, I'm going to tear it down today and move both fish into 2.5g tanks. Makes more tanks for me to have to clean, but maybe I can save them.


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

Hi NeptunesMom,
I can't offer any suggestions, only my sympathies. I know it really does take a piece of your heart every time even when a little creature like a Betta fish dies. I hope you have success with the others, I think that would do a lot for you in terms of healing these wounds again. Good luck,
Netti


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Netti said:


> Hi NeptunesMom,
> I can't offer any suggestions, only my sympathies. I know it really does take a piece of your heart every time even when a little creature like a Betta fish dies. I hope you have success with the others, I think that would do a lot for you in terms of healing these wounds again. Good luck,
> Netti


Thanks. These were my first two rescues (over a year ago), and I think that's why it's hitting me hard. I've lost a lot of fish, but usually I know they are going downhill. In the case of Ranger he just dropped dead. And, it's been especially hard because this is my third week of losing an animal. Neptune died, then Odette (my guinea pig), and now Ranger. 

I just buried Ranger, and I looked him over again. I don't see anything that tells me why he died. He isn't even clamped. 

Alright I've put off tearing down this tank long enough.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Grr.. Marius is now beyond anything I can do. He's not moving and hardly breathing. I've lost my two beautiful boys in one day.

Ranger 








Marius


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

So sorry to hear that NeptunesMom  
You seem to be having the same luck my friends are - they have lost 3-4 bettas randomly within the last two months or so. No idea what was causing them to die off, they just seemed to go downhill quickly as well.

It's heartbreaking and I am so sorry. Sending a virtual hug your way!


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

My sympathies. Since you did rescue them and you have had most of them for over a year it was likely old age and nothing you did or didn't do. They were beautiful. You were a great momma to them.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone. It's been a bad past few weeks. Teddy is in a 2.5 g and I'm watching him closely. I'm never going to split a tank again. I have no idea what possibly could've caused this. :-(

April R, Ranger was a rescue from the store I work at so I'm guessing he was around 1.5-2 years, and Marius was a Wal-Mart rescue but he was small when I got him so I'm guessing he was around 1.5 years. That's really not that old when they can live up to about 5 (and some even older). Mine tend to average out around 3 years with me (so probably 3.5-4 years old total). But thanks for trying to make me feel better and saying nice things 

ETA: April, I see you have a Masters in Medical Anthropology. My BA was in Socio-Cultural Anthropology and my MS is in Sociology.


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

Fellow Anthro! Awesome


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

I've done a lot of rescue for a lot of kinds of critters, so I'm going to say - go on and take a break. Also, it's ok to not rescue.
I know a lot of rescuers won't tell you that. But really, it's ok. Rescue is hard and you burn out. I am buying all my fish from breeders. I rescue cats and dogs, I keep fish to relax, I don't want to deal with issues, and buying fish from pet stores here bring issues. I rescued some and went through what you're going through and now I'm done. You're not alone in feeling that.

I'm sorry that you lost your lovely fish. But please rest a little easier knowing that it happens. and it may well have been age - just because they can live to be 5 doesn't mean it's normal. There's a couple of people walking around who are 115 - but just a couple. Two to three years is average lifespan, so clearly you take wonderful care of them.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

24 hours....sounds like graphite disease maybe? I don't know-you may want to check it out. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=90086

Unless you've seen it already and the symptoms don't match up.

I'm sorry for your losses-yes it's okay to take a break from rescuing. Could be old age. I hope you start to feel better, when bettas leave they take your heart with them.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Bailmint said:


> 24 hours....sounds like graphite disease maybe? I don't know-you may want to check it out. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=90086
> 
> Unless you've seen it already and the symptoms don't match up.
> 
> I'm sorry for your losses-yes it's okay to take a break from rescuing. Could be old age. I hope you start to feel better, when bettas leave they take your heart with them.


There weren't any changes in their appearance except Ranger turned very pale. Marius was still bright blue when he died. 

It's just really unlikely that two fish in the same tank would die of old age on the same day.


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

Oh if they were in the same tank, I honestly doubt it was old age. I'm out of suggestions though :/.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Bailmint said:


> Oh if they were in the same tank, I honestly doubt it was old age. I'm out of suggestions though :/.


Yeah, it's really weird. There was a third fish in the tank too (who was actually in the middle between Marius and Ranger), and he still appears to not be showing any sings of lethargy or color loss. 

Nothing new has been added to that tank in probably 6 mos or more, I've not worked in almost 2 mos at the pet store so I haven't brought home any new fish since maybe late March, and I have QT equipment I use for those that are new for up to a month after symptoms have gone away (depending on what they had). I haven't even brought home a sick fish since probably before Jan because I was dealing with Neptune's and Alfie's illnesses. I will admit I do share equipment for fish that have passed their QT and are not ill. That's another reason I'm worried, because if there is something in their tank I've contaminated all my "safe" tanks. But I still have no idea what killed them. Even examining them after their deaths I found nothing unusual.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

And now CB has died. Serious! What is going on in my tanks. CB wasn't even in the same tank as Marius and Ranger. He started showing symptoms this morning, and was dead by tonight. 

The worst part is CB was named after my two horses (one of which is in my profile pic) who both died within a couple days of each other in Nov.


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## KFoster (Mar 26, 2014)

NeptunesMom said:


> And now CB has died. Serious! What is going on in my tanks. CB wasn't even in the same tank as Marius and Ranger. He started showing symptoms this morning, and was dead by tonight.
> 
> The worst part is CB was named after my two horses (one of which is in my profile pic) who both died within a couple days of each other in Nov.


I'm so sorry neptunesmom. That is very tough to go through. 
Thinking of you, *hugs*


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## Kaffrin (Apr 1, 2014)

This is unfortunate :c I'm very sorry for your loss.

I do wonder if something funky got into the water from wherever you supply their water. Maybe even from the air.


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## William Zhong (May 13, 2014)

what a beautiful fish!! wish i can get em


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## spiritbettalady (May 5, 2014)

I am sorry this is happening. If you get other betta fish I suggest you get one from a breeder and not a pet store.


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## Netti (Apr 25, 2014)

So very sorry for your losses, NeptunesMom. 
If it had been some kind of toxin introduced via the water I think it would have made them all sick pretty much at the same time. This looks more like a virus or bacteria that was passed from one to the other. It may have gotten in the water with your hand, or with the food?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I'm still trying to figure out what is in my tanks. I'm starting to worry it is myco but I would think there would be at least some sign on one of the fish and more fish would've died by this point (7 days since first symptoms in Marius).


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## April R (May 24, 2014)

My sincerest condolences. I can only imagine how devastated you must me. *hugs*


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the support. I love having a place I can post and people understand. 

Everyone else is still hanging in there. Crossing fingers for no more sick fish, guinea pigs, horses, cats, dogs, or any other creature that finds it's way into my life.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

ugh, that sounds horrible! it had to be something in the water! Here's hoping everyone else hangs out for a while longer.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Well, that didn't last very long. I brought home a new fish today. It wasn't planned (not that most of them were). But I saw him last week at work on the DS shelf, and thought he was pretty. They are calling him a halfmoon dumbo (I've never even seen dumbos at my store, and he was the only one), but he's not a dumbo and he appears to be a double tail not halfmoon (although it could just be ripped). He was a bright white color at the time. 

Anyway, I knew I didn't need another fish so I just admired him. Then a few days later he was still there when I was working, and he was the only fish left on the shelf. The others had all sold (they were all fairly brightly colored). I felt bad for him, but was happy when I went to work yesterday and saw he wasn't on the shelf anymore. But, as I was leaving I found him in a different area of the fish section placed in with the VTs. I decided to give him one more night, and when I went back today he was still there. So, he came home with me. He's still feisty, but he's faded to a dull white color. I'll get pics once I figure out where to put him. After thinking I was done I filled up a lot of the open tank space (from the tanks I tore down that had fish pass away) with other things.

ETA: He looks a lot like my Neptune (in personality, body shape and color), so perhaps that was why I was drawn to him. But, it's funny because I joked to my mom my next fish was going to be Neptwo.  I actually named him Wilbur because it seemed to fit.


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## KFoster (Mar 26, 2014)

Pics or it didn't happen... XD


In all seriousness (but seriously post a picture) I'm glad you didn't stray away for long


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I never was able to get a good picture of him. And... he died today. He was fine this morning. I finally put a new heater into his tank last night to bring his temp to 78. I'm wondering if the heater malfunctioned, but the temp is 78 according to the thermometer at this time. 

He was teeny tiny too. Just a little guy.

ETA: That is officially it. I'm not getting any more fish. I'm getting a new job in the store, so I won't be looking at the fish all day anymore. Hopefully, that'll help me keep from bringing home any more fish.


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## 16kehresmann (Feb 5, 2014)

You really have been getting the short end of every stick.  All I can say is sorry. Sometimes bettas just don't make it, despite the best love and care they could ever get! Rescueing exspecially is hard. I really hope you do not give up on the hobby of fish keeping completely. Just down-size and keep the boys/girls you have now happy and healthy. All your boys that passed away had great GREAT care, you just have to remember, you changed all your fishes entire lives for the better. If it wasn't for you they'd probably be twiddling away lifelessly in a cold tiny bowl.


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## taylorrae (May 24, 2014)

I am so sorry for your losses, NeptunesMom. My last fish, Levi, had a similar issue. Near the end of his life he refused to eat, turned very pale, and stayed near the top of the tank, leaning against the side of the filter. I still have no idea what was wrong. 

It's hard to go through a death, and no matter what other people think, bettas have just as much of a place in our hearts as any other animal. I'm sure that your bettas really appreciated being taken into a home, no matter how short the time.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

What a heartbreaking story - I'm so sorry for you 

All I can think of is some sort of water contaminate (be that a chemical, virus, or bacteria) that some of your fish are more affected by than others. I used to have a good amount of issues with my fish despite the best of care (and their fins just never looked great in my hard water), and after taking a 3 year break from the hobby, I decided the only way I was going to get fish again was if I got a RO unit. Perhaps switch over to RO water from the grocery store (if you have a Hannaford where you live, they sell RO water for 45 cents per gallon) and see if it makes a difference. Of course, you'd have to remineralize before use.

Wishing you better luck in the future. And there is nothing wrong with taking a break from the hobby - sometimes it can be a very good thing for your own sanity.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone. 

The thing that is frustrating about this newest guy who died, was that he again had no symptoms. He was swimming around fine in the morning, and then boom. I came home at 2:00 and he was dead. He appeared to have just died. Again, there are no signs on his body. He was white, but his white was bright. Even when he died, his white was still bright. He wasn't even really a "rescue" because he wasn't really sick when I got him. He was just overlooked. 

I'm keeping all the fish I still have, I'm just not going to bring home any more. This takes me back down to 7 (5 boys, 2 girls). It's funny because before he died yesterday I was actually looking at some tanks at work to start a sorority. But, not now.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Wow. That's terrible. I'm sad to hear of your loss!

There has to be something going on. It sounds really scary


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm so sorry-I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but-could it be water parameters?

I have a bad memory-sorry.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Bailmint said:


> I'm so sorry-I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but-could it be water parameters?
> 
> I have a bad memory-sorry.


The water parameters are coming back fine. I threw away everything from the previous fish that died, including food and water conditioner. The remaining 7 fish are all still fine. Teddy, the fish that was in with the two that died is still alive and seems healthy. I have no idea... I really am at a loss as to what killed Wilber. I had only had him for a little under 2 weeks. And, he was a healthy fish. It's just like the others who died unexpectedly. 

I just don't like feeling helpless. That was why I got out of fish keeping in my early 20's. I felt helpless when they were sick and dying. Then Neptune brought me back. But, again I'm feeling helpless. I know how to treat most everything, but if I don't know what it is I can't treat it. With my mammals we can run bloodwork, xrays, CT scans, ECHO's, etc... to figure out what the problem is when there is no clear answer.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

I know exactly what you are saying. Sometimes there are so many variables that it can just be mind-blowingly frustrating to try and figure out what is wrong. The lack of diagnostic tools for fish really is a bummer


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

My Teddy appears to be dying now. :-(


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## myexplodingcat (Apr 9, 2014)

That sounds awful! Is there maybe an internal parasite or bacterial infection that doesn't show symptoms on the outside? I don't know of any offhand... have you tried Kanaplex?

This is one of those situations where maybe you should do a precautionary dose of meds before anyone else gets sick D:


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I do have Kanaplex, and I was debating dosing him with it. But, since his only symptom is buoyancy problems I'm not sure if I should. He can't swim. He twirls and ends up on his side or upside down. His color is still bright and normal. 

Also, I see you're in Iowa too. If you live in Central Iowa and want any supplies PM me. I've got a lot of supplies I don't want to store any longer.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

SIP Teddy. And, now there are six. :-(


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## Bailmint (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm so so sorry for your loss </3.

I don't think it's anything you're doing, but it's got something to do with your house or water definitely. What if you ordered spring water by the gallon and try using those with a Betta and see what happens?


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Bailmint said:


> I'm so so sorry for your loss </3.
> 
> I don't think it's anything you're doing, but it's got something to do with your house or water definitely. What if you ordered spring water by the gallon and try using those with a Betta and see what happens?


I think so too, but I just don't know what it could be. It was his night for a water change when I first noticed it, so I had not changed the water in about 5 days. When I had last changed the water his tank shared the same water from the bucket I used in another tank. The other fish is fine. Also, all my fish get their water from the same bucket, tap and water conditioner. After my boys all died in a row I got a new bucket, water conditioner and gravel vac. The only thing that I'm using that I still used before was the tap (it's the one in my bathtub). 

I don't know how economical it would be to buy bottled water for 22.5 gallons of tanks. Especially, since none of the other fish seem affected by the water changes. I still have Alfie, who is still constantly sick with various ailments. If anyone was going to die from something in the water I'd think it'd be him. But, the fact that he hasn't died makes me suspect it's something else. 

Interestingly enough... the placement of the fish is something I'm starting to notice a trend with. My fish are on an entertainment stand. Every fish I have placed into the middle section of the stand dies either there, or the next location I move them to. Even Ranger and Marius were there when I had them in their 2.5 gallon tanks. It was over a year later that they died, but still... Also, CB was there before I moved him, and he died shortly after. Another one of my fish named Odin died within a few days of my moving him to that spot. Draco died there, as did several other rescues whose names I can't think of at the moment. The only fish I have that are still alive have never been in that location. I even had a snail die within a few hours after I moved her to that spot. There is nothing different about that area than any other location on the entertainment stand, except it gets less light (unless I open a window), and even though it's in the middle it sits few inches lower than any of the other tanks.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Did all those fish inhabit a particular tank at some point in their lives, or are you just talking about the actual location on the stand and not a particular tank?

This is really a frustrating and devastating situation  I'm trying my best to figure out what is going on, but none of my theories really seem plausible right now. I mean, it could be a bacteria or virus (or a synergistic relationship between several species) that only some of your fish are susceptible to...and out of those that are susceptible, stress levels may play a factor in allowing the virus to become lethal. The fish may also have different susceptibilities to toxins, which is why I ask if they were all in the same tank - perhaps it is leaching something from the acrylic (if the tank isn't glass) or silicone? However, this doesn't explain the delayed deaths so I don't think it is particularly plausible.

Do you have a friend who gets water from a different supply? Perhaps you could go stock up on water elsewhere and see if that helps. Since we don't have access to a lab, I don't think you are going to pinpoint a single cause for these deaths, but perhaps you can eliminate them through trial and error. It's a start at least.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Teddy, Marius and Ranger all shared a 10g divided tank. None of the other fish shared tanks. They all just shared the same location on the stand at various times. When Marius and Ranger passed I tore down the 10g divided tank and put Teddy into a 2.5g. 

The crazy thing is, just like the others he shows no outward signs of any illness. His color is still bright and vibrant. It's just so bizarre since it's been months since these other fish died. At this time the only species of aquatic creatures I have at my house is Betta fish. I have a community tank at my boyfriends house, but that's several miles away. 

Everyone I know would get their water from the same city water supply.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

I should add, I'm not opposed to buying bottled water or going to find another source of water... it's just not something that I could easily do forever. I'm already spending $8 a day on my guinea pigs bedding because I have to throw away the towels I'm using for her bedding, and I have to change it every 12 hours. It's a long story on her, and why it has to be that way... but with her medical bills I've only had her a month and have already spent several thousand on her. If I have to spend a lot on the fish too, I'll be completely broke soon.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

I completely understand the money issue; I know that you do what is right for your pets, especially if you are willing to spend that much money on your guinea pig  I spent around $600 in vet bills on a kitten that I rescued from work a few years back, and I'm sure you are familiar with the looks that I got when I told that story....and I don't even want to total up how much I've spent on my rescue fish so far :/

My suggestion was basically just to rule out possible contamination, which should at least narrow down your options. One possibility is that the contamination could be coming from the plumbing leading to your house. If you "borrowed" some water from a friend nearby (same municipal water supply, different plumbing), you could at least rule out that possibility. That's honestly the best I can think of right now - it really is a confusing situation, and I'll certainly keep trying to figure it out.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The other thing I have to wonder, is do you have any devices or appliances that happen to be near that entertainment stand? Could the entertainment stand _itself _be outgassing? Is it made out of particle board?

I'm thinking about this.

For those reluctant to click on links, it's a Seattle Times article on particle board outgassing formaldehyde, which it will do indefinitely. Even if it's not enough to make a human sick, I'm thinking aquarium water would readily absorb the chemical if it's abundant in the air around it.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

hrutan said:


> The other thing I have to wonder, is do you have any devices or appliances that happen to be near that entertainment stand? Could the entertainment stand _itself _be outgassing? Is it made out of particle board?
> 
> I'm thinking about this.
> 
> For those reluctant to click on links, it's a Seattle Times article on particle board outgassing formaldehyde, which it will do indefinitely. Even if it's not enough to make a human sick, I'm thinking aquarium water would readily absorb the chemical if it's abundant in the air around it.


The only thing would be the heaters. It is made of particle board though, and those that died were all lower on it. Even the 10g that Marius, Ranger and Teddy were in until Ranger and Marius died was on the floor up against the entertainment stand... hmm.. I'll have to do research on it. One of my guinea pigs that recently passed away had scaring in her lungs they couldn't identify when we did the necropsy.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

My thought is that since your deaths seem to be location specific, it's quite likely something environmental about that location. Outgassing seems to be the most likely culprit - formaldehyde outgassing is very common in carpets & particle board, and formaldehyde is apparently soluble in water and outgasses more quickly when exposed to heat. I couldn't find much data aside from that from a simple web search, but I'll do some digging while I'm on the Reference Desk and see if anything pops up in the databases.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Hmm. I wasn't able to find anything about effects on aquarium life (I wouldn't be surprised if, like many things, the effects on fish haven't been studied) - but _if _there's outgassing, you should be able to detect a "dead fish" smell in the vicinity. If it can kill mice and cause cancer in humans, it can surely kill tiny aquarium fish. The smaller the life form, the quicker the effects of a poison, after all.

It's a long shot, anyway, but for the sake of your health, I wouldn't ignore that fishy smell if you find it.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

hrutan said:


> Hmm. I wasn't able to find anything about effects on aquarium life (I wouldn't be surprised if, like many things, the effects on fish haven't been studied) - but _if _there's outgassing, you should be able to detect a "dead fish" smell in the vicinity. If it can kill mice and cause cancer in humans, it can surely kill tiny aquarium fish. The smaller the life form, the quicker the effects of a poison, after all.
> 
> It's a long shot, anyway, but for the sake of your health, I wouldn't ignore that fishy smell if you find it.


There is no fishy smell. Even with the fish tanks, my room doesn't really smell like fish. You can smell the guinea pigs and hay, but not the fish.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

One would think you'd have noticed a fishy smell anyway, since that's a pretty bad sign with aquariums.


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