# New Dog!



## Sena Hansler

Firstly, they sent me the wrong picture. But, whatever I don't care.

The description they gave me of how she behaves though... No way. Dead wrong. Other than kid and people friendly.

Dogs: Well, she likes dogs. But she is over excited where she will start spinning, lashing out at the leash, act as if you were the issue.

Walks: She is NOT FOR OFF LEASH. Being an overly excited dog, she bolts. 

Walks part 2: On leash is not something she likes. First walk resulted in her spinning, lashing out and trying to get off the leash. I didn't let her, and I changed direction on her every time she pulled. Eventually I mentally exerted her. I made her walk by a dog (who barks, lunges, snarls etc), two dogs behind wooden fences, and four cats chilling out. For the cats I made her sit there (properly on her bum not halfway). But everyday, it's backtracking to the very first day!

Eating: She inhales. Food th- gone! :roll:

Cats: Since we have a kitten, who was unhappy the first day then stopped caring... We want to make sure she can integrate into the family fully. She doesn't want to kill her... Thankfully... But she is too excited to "not eat the kitty" so to speak. We let her smell (to which she wanted to nip said bottom of the cat), and using the screen door as a blockade. The screen door worked better because she could get REALLY close without hurting. 

Listening: She doesn't. She's learned with me, I am more aggressive. By that I don't mean I beat her or anything. I mean if I DON'T LIKE IT she's NOT getting away with it. The way it AUGHT TO BE FOR ALL DOGS. MY room is MY room. Dog's food is mine, until I tell her she can have it. It's about having patience and listening. Not getting HER way.

Overall, exhausting. But because of how she is, I'll keep it up for a month. She may end up being too overwhelming, in which case I'd like to find a large place for her... A family with kids (any age), maybe another dog of equal or bigger size, a large fenced (taller fence) yard. And I will make sure she is NOT going to some backyard breeder (WILL make contract between me and them stating they will not breed and will spay within a year's time or less), or dog fighting.

I will also note the previous people found her a few months ago. Came tired, underweight with ribs showing, and dirty. With a raggy collar and a name tag with NO number or address. I am making sure no one is truly missing her, even using Kijiji for most of the provinces, to make sure they aren't elsewhere, other than Alberta, and missing their young dog.


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## Beezu

why would you make someone sign a spay contract? why arent you going to spay her yourself? there are a lot of programs for affordable spay/neuter. every animal should be spayed/neutered. it is the responsible thing to do. 

did you not meet her before adopting her? it is kind of unusual to adopt a dog sight unseen. 

they make bowls with sort of dividers in it to slow down dogs who eat too fast. if you are concerned about how quickly she eats you could try one of those. or spread it out on a sheetpan or something.


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## SeaHorse

Sena.... what a job you have taken on, Bless You for that. Everything you are doing is right. Changing direction when she pulls, that type of thing. 
You sound like you definitely know what you are doing. You are the boss of the food, It's yours until you choose to give it to her. Darn right. Good for you!!
My daughter went thru exactly what you are going thru now... He is, we think, half black lab, and half Great Pyrenees. Suffice it to say you cannot leave anything out including stuff on the top of the fridge. Yes the top of the fridge. 
He was incapable of sitting to have his food dish put on the floor when she got him, and now he can sit 3 minutes beside his bowl and wait for his dinner... (and drool) 
My goodness she looks SO thin. Nothing a good amount of food can't fix. 
Please keep us posted with pics. Good job tho you are doing everything right!!


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## LittleBettaFish

How old is she? I'm not sure if you have a general idea of age, but if she is unspayed currently and not a young dog, I would be concerned about the chance of Pyometra. I think the risk gets quite high in unspayed females the older they are/the more heats they have so it is just something to be aware of. 

Also if she is entire you have to be very conscious of her heat cycle as we have two intact girls right now, and for two or three weeks it can be a nightmare.

Just two things I thought I would mention as I am not sure if you have owned an unspayed female dog before (I am assuming she is not spayed based on the breeding contract thing).

She looks like she has had a rough time of it. Poor thing. I hate seeing any animal in such a condition.


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## Sena Hansler

She is about 2 years old, judging her fur (no grays), her teeth, energy etc is very much of a puppy's. I checked for a spay scar, and he mentioned as I did she was in heat a week before I got her. It's approximately 6 months apart they go ito heat correct? I know stress and other things induce it (kinda like us!). I expect her to be very "wild" when it hits. Luckily two stores do have "heat diapers" lol. Washable and tossable. 

When I fed her, I did it differently. Something I never tried before. Made her sit, tossed her a piece (totally can't catch food LOL). Made her "dance" as I found she knows how to! Gave her another piece. Made her sit, and stay (take a couple steps back). Give her another piece. Sit, stay then come. Gave her another piece. She knows "down" command but you have to tug the collar just a little, and she's down. Did that a few times, each time she got a piece. Then I decided to give her the bowl, but made her sit and wait. Took her four times, but she did it. Also knows "back off" lol. 

We did have an issue with an unseen cat who slunk off... She saw it before we did (after an hour walk nonetheless). She did her whole frantic twists and turns, chewing on the leash. I made her walk by that house 6 times until she stopped "searching". 

Then when we got to the house she sped up ("home!!" Lol). So I walked by it. I don't intend to be dragged up or down stairs. Dangerous! So, made her go up to the house - second she pulled I turned around. She did not like going away from home that is for sure :lol: eventually she walked behind me going back to the house lol. 

Also like I said she is 53 pounds... Should actually be about 65, which is plenty more to avoid overweight or underweight. Just judging by size and breed.


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## LittleBettaFish

They don't go too wild. Ours just sniffs more on her walks and does a lot more marking in the weeks before she comes right into full-blown heat. It is more about making sure she isn't in contact with any intact male dogs. 

The amount they bleed depends on the dog. Our one now is very clean and hardly bleeds at all, while our youngest is very dirty and it looks like someone has cut themselves sometimes. 

Also, it's when they stop bleeding that is the peak danger time. Even neutered males will often react to an in heat female. Our male does and we have to separate them as he will try and mount her.

I sometimes make our dogs work before they can have their food. I can't stand dogs that don't wait or make a huge fuss over their food. Sometimes our male gets lazy about the whole 'waiting' business so I make him do a few obedience commands just to sharpen him up haha. 

What breed is she? The photo makes it hard to see. She looks like my dad's poor dog we picked up from the RSPCA. He is a pitbull/staffy type dog and he was so skinny I was afraid to walk him for fear someone would dob me in to the authorities for cruelty. 

So did the previous owners have her for months? What was their explanation for her present condition? Blows my mind how some people are content to have walking skeletons for pets.


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## Oldfishlady

I had planned to neuter my puppy when he got a bit older until I did some research and now I am rethinking it. That said, if I had a female, personally I think I would still get her spayed even with the risk.
Here are some links to what I found.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...angers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...ks-benefits-spay-neuter-your-dog_20685-1.html
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/long-term-health-risks-benefits-spay-neuter-dogs/
http://www.angryvet.com/spaying-and-neutering/
http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/spay_neuter_considerations_2013.pdf
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/130401s.aspx

As you can see I have been doing a lot of research regarding dogs in general...A lot has changed since I have had a dog and/or reared a puppy of my own-not a family dog and I was a certified trainer over 30 years ago...lol......See what happens when you find a new interest....lol...Now I am a crazy dog nut.....Proud mama of Skipper'D 
This is a 9wk old pic-he is now 6mo old


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## LittleBettaFish

Females it is better to spay simply because the risk of uterus infections becomes really high the older they get. 

I think a lot of breeders (particularly of big dogs) recommend waiting a year or two before spaying. Our GS male was left until he was 18 months and then we spayed him. 

However, I generally think for the average pet home it is better if dogs are spayed/neutered. A lot of people have difficulty containing their pets and the last thing we need is more irresponsibly bred puppies.


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## Sena Hansler

Well for her behavior I'd expect her to not pay that mucb attention if in heat...

LittleBettaFish, they fed her quite a bit. 2-3 months ago I'd say? So the fact she is thin (ribs are not shown but I'd like more muscle and mest on her bones) proves how thin she was when they found her. I'm also going to post throughout the kijiji provinces to make sure someone did NOT lose her (i've seen it happen!!)

She is a german shepherd labrador cross. Probably another dog breed in there. Her shapely body is normal for the shepherd, but I still feel she could be a bit more "stocky". That and the fact she could put on muscle! 



She is cautious of trucks, which is great. I don't mind "let's not get close" behavjor. But... She is TERRIFIED of grates. Know manholes, and grates on the side of the curb/road? Terrifed. Shuts down into sheer panic where she fights you whenever you are a couple feet near it. 

She also lacks listening skills, unless you really raise your voice. She isn't deaf, I know she isn't. And I am NOT stressing myself or her by shouting. 

I'll get a better picture of her after I brush her. Handfuls of fur comes out since that was her winter coat (thick coat like a shepherd)


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## Sena Hansler

So, two questions:


What makes dogs afraid of cameras? She acted as if I was going to beat the crap out of her! I don't use flash (for many reasons), it's a non-obtrusive camera (small), and I don't hold it in front of my face thanks to it's nicely sized screen.


Second question: What drives a dog to only pee when they ABSOLUTELY have to? She will be taken out enough times, but only pee once... Usually when SHE HAS TO PEEEEEEE. :lol: Most dogs I know when they are outside, even just do a tiny piddle. I stand there with my dog, who does a 1 minute pee x.x I'm surprised her bladder is so great. She was shaking so bad she had to pee so bad when I got home, though Scott took her outside so she could go pee, a couple hours back.

Here's two better pictures of her. The second one was her cowering from the camera, acting all "submissive" in a very prominent "don't kill me!" fashion :roll:


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## LittleBettaFish

It could just be she got a fright or she's never seen one before. Our dog Nike gets wigged out about the weirdest things. Today on our walk it was a suspicious tree stump. 

I would assume if you just give her treats when you get the camera out and get her to associate positive things with the camera being used/around her she will get over it. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean with your last question. Our dogs really don't pee heaps when they are outside. They go usually once when they are let out and then they just mosey around the yard for a while, come back inside and then get let out when they need to go again.


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## Sena Hansler

Well, I mean what causes a dog to think they HAVE to hold their bladder until the absolute last moment. She is given unlimited water, which means her bladder's gotta be a horse bladder lol. No blood, no thick grossness of it either... Just... Lots of pee. Poor thing tried so hard to hold it in, there were a few dribbles on the blanket but she did VERY good VERY hard not to pee inside (which is amazing).

But she won't go otherwise? Not unless she HAS to? I don't understand why.

As for "treat when the camera is out" that is how I was trying to get her to sit still :lol: She just... Won't do it.


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## registereduser

Beezu said:


> why would you make someone sign a spay contract? why arent you going to spay her yourself? there are a lot of programs for affordable spay/neuter. every animal should be spayed/neutered. it is the responsible thing to do.


Exactly. I really have to shake my head at some of the dog and cat posts on this board. Everyone takes meticulous responsible care of their fish but it is often a different story for the larger pets. I don't get it.

There is a place where people can adopt pets that have already been spayed/neutered/vet checked, it's called an animal shelter. Most are really good places that care about the animals they adopt out.


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## registereduser

Sena Hansler said:


> Well, I mean what causes a dog to think they HAVE to hold their bladder until the absolute last moment. She is given unlimited water, which means her bladder's gotta be a horse bladder lol. No blood, no thick grossness of it either... Just... Lots of pee. Poor thing tried so hard to hold it in, there were a few dribbles on the blanket but she did VERY good VERY hard not to pee inside (which is amazing).
> 
> But she won't go otherwise? Not unless she HAS to? I don't understand why.
> 
> As for "treat when the camera is out" that is how I was trying to get her to sit still :lol: She just... Won't do it.


I would have a vet look at her to rule out bladder problems.


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## Sena Hansler

Um, because IF I CANNOT KEEP HER to the timeframe where she IS spayed (months from now after all shots are taken care of), I don't want her bred. I tried to ignore that first post, but if others are going to agree lets address it.

OR would you all rather I tell them "meh breed her all you want!" Great idea. Next time I just won't post good news, or "cautious back up "just in case sh$% flies out the window plans". Because obviously, "they aren't good enough". Too bad. You do not know me, you do not know my situation, you do not know how hard I am trying to integrate this dog into this family, or how this dog really acts in person VS "over the internet". I'm getting VERY tired of these kinds of posts.


And there IS NO AFFORDABLE PLANS THANKS TO DIRTWADS. it is 190 shots, 170 other shots, 350 spay and chip.


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## LittleBettaFish

I agree maybe just get a vet to make sure that she doesn't have an infection or something that could be causing pain when she urinates. 

Otherwise could be someone did a bad job of toilet training her and has given her some anxiety about going to the toilet.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

As a retired behaviorist/trainer and German Shorthaired Pointer Rescue chair for TN/AL/KY, I'd like to add a few things I learned along the way.

1. Never, ever, under any circumstances use the phrase "Bad Dog!" That implies the dog understands what "bad" means. They don't; they might look guilty but it's because they read your body language and vocal tones. Plus, it's negative.

2. Breast cancer chances increase with each season. Prostate cancer chances increase when males are left intact. So I recommended clients spay bitches at one year or after first heat; whichever came first. Neuter males at one-to-two years unless marking, aggression or unwanted sexual behavior occurred. If she were mine, I'd have her spayed and tell anyone who might want her there's no cost but you do need to be reimbursed for the spaying. Never trust anyone to honor a contract. Not everyone is as diligent as you are. And not everyone even recognizes when a bitch is in season. *This was written before 15 but appeared after. Maybe the shelter would give you a paper like they do people who adopt from them (at least in TN they do). *

3. Rescue dogs don't know their names. So I used cheese or hot dog pieces. I'd make a quiet noise and when they looked I'd say their new name simultaneously with giving them the the cheese or hot dog. Biscuits are for treats for doing nothing and for sit, down, etc. But hot dogs and cheese are for name recognition and coming when called. Only say their name once or you'll have a dog like my late girl who thought her name was "Hannah Hannah."  My dogs don't know the word "come." They come on their names. "Come" is just one more command we teach them to disobey. Associating their name with special treats makes them much more reliable. Oh, you can use a squeaky to get their attention and then say their name. This gives you two ways to call them/get their attention. You *must* make learning their name a lesson.

After they turn on their name, walk a few steps, say name and reward. Do this for three days and then randomly replace food with "good dog." But always have the food in your hand. This is where most people train their dogs to only do actions for treats: They suddenly stop the treats; they must be gradually weaned off them. According to most studies, it takes approximately three weeks for a dog to have a behavior permanently embedded.

4. If they don't listen, never raise your voice. Either go to them or tap them on the shoulder to get their attention. This works with name recognition, too.

5. If they're afraid of something (like the grate), stand still and let them flop around like a fish until they tire. Hold your arm still; let them, not your arm, flop. Don't say anything. Just stand there. When they stop flopping, move a foot. Stop. Still not saying anything. If they run past you to get away from the "monster in their mind," stand there. When they stop, move forward. The key is silence when a dog is afraid. If you don't acknowledge the "monster," eventually they won't, either.

Dogs only learn what we teach them; good or bad. You are so smart to not yell. All that does is teach them you don't mean something until you yell. My belief is dogs do what you expect them to do. If you expect them to lack respect for you and what's yours, they will. Obviously you're not letting that happen. She will wind up a great dog and she's lucky to have you guiding her.


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## Sena Hansler

> 5. If they're afraid of something (like the grate), stand still and let them flop around like a fish until they tire. Hold your arm still; let them, not your arm, flop. Don't say anything. Just stand there. When they stop flopping, move a foot. Stop. Still not saying anything. If they run past you to get away from the "monster in their mind," stand there. When they stop, move forward. The key is silence when a dog is afraid. If you don't acknowledge the "monster," eventually they won't, either.


 I did that!! :lol: She really puts up a fight. I'm going to keep doing it until she learns it won't hurt her. Maybe she fell in as a pup? Got a foot stuck? Either way... I'd be scared too. 

I notice she listens when you walk directly towards her. YOU MUST BE FACING HER for her to listen. Usually, you avoid being in an "aggressive" stance.


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## registereduser

Sena Hansler said:


> And there IS NO AFFORDABLE PLANS THANKS TO DIRTWADS. it is 190 shots, 170 other shots, 350 spay and chip.


Yes, it is expensive to own pets, no matter where we live. Spaying is not something a dog can do without, especially if there is a possibility of it going to yet another home.


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## Sena Hansler

I know that. Hence the "contract" to ensure she is not going to be bred, and will receive that NEED (a year's time is more than plenty). IF in case we do not get to it.

We used to have an affordable plan... But... Too many people didn't pay. So... We lost that lovely chance. Thanks to some terrible pet owners. I'm also shopping around to which places are cheaper (all are about the same) and the best vet, who I can call MY pet's vet, rather than having ten strangers :lol: Not easy... One clinic would probably make PETA proud :roll: We avoid them...

I have a backup plan because only a moron doesn't think ahead, or think of "what if's" and "just in cases". I tried the "go with the flow" bull onceuponatime, doesn't work. Actually set me back further than I have ever wanted to be.


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## registereduser

Where I live there are several places and organizations that will either help pay or spay for free but it is pretty much kept quiet because local vets get mad at the cheaper or free vet services. They think they will be put out of business. People here have to do a lot of calling around and asking questions, internet searches, networking. The help is out there!

I know your heart is in the right place about the contract but how can you enforce it? People lie all the time.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I had a client who hired me because his Dalmatian was afraid of fire hydrants. 

When you drop something behind her, does she react? I'd get a squeaky and use it to get her attention instead of vocal cues. Apparently someone has taught her to ignore people. That's what's so frustrating about rescues: You don't know their backgrounds. That's why I relied so heavily on squeakers and hot dogs or cheese when retraining an older, unknown dog. I rehomed close to 100 in 25 years.

I'd do like LBF said with the camera and associate treats (biscuits this time). Oh! I forgot, you can put rice cakes in a bag with a hot dog or cheese and put in fridge. They will pick up the scent and you have cheap treats. Plus, they are so low in calories they won't cause a dog to gain weight (I know that's not a problem with her).

All my bitches pee just once when they go outside. You could bell train her (Russell's bell trained):

1. Put bell on a long string or piece of leather.
2. Tap bell to dog's nose and simultaneously say "Outside."
3. Let them out.

Never push dog's head toward the bell. It didn't take Russell long to figure it out and he's a boy....and a Shih Tzu! ;-)


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## Sena Hansler

It's better than not doing it at all. TRYING is better than NOT DOING ANYTHING. In my own personal set opinion, that is.

And she would not be "given away" either. I know more than enough people in my area, who have farms or large fenced yards, who would like a dog or another dog. Here we can't give away anymore.... They screened me to make sure I was not a dog fighter! And fully understanding and willing, I did not mind. To some people it would seem rude, but they obviously never felt the nagging thought or horrors of losing a pet to such a practice.

Here we have three vets: One "we could care less but whatever we'll do it" vet clinic. The "we love your pets and care for them!" clinic, and then the dreaded evil clinic... Who we swear has a "wheel of bad fortune" they spin with these choices: euthanasia, euthanasia, euthanasia, spay/neuter, rabies shot, euthanasia, sell bad food, euthanasia. And he also hates spaying and neutering. Thinks they should just be put down. He literally could be a part of PETA... Blech.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I just thought of something: You could have the person pay the vet to have her spayed and you could "volunteer" to take her to the vet and keep her until the stitches come out. That way you know she's been spayed and she received the best aftercare. Just a thought.


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## Sena Hansler

When you drop something behind her, does she react? *Something falls she is surprised then investigates. *

I'd get a squeaky and use it to get her attention instead of vocal cues. *I haven't used any vocal cues since a couple days ago. She doesn't recognize her name anyways, and I've associated known words with movement (hand up, hand infront, hand above, hand down, etc).* 

I'd do like LBF said with the camera and associate treats (biscuits this time). Oh! I forgot, you can put rice cakes in a bag with a hot dog or cheese and put in fridge. They will pick up the scent and you have cheap treats. Plus, they are so low in calories they won't cause a dog to gain weight (I know that's not a problem with her). *She will see the treat, knows she will get it, but the second the camera is facing her (she will go up and sniff it) she acts like it's a gun or something and cringes between my legs. x.x*



> I just thought of something: You could have the person pay the vet to have her spayed and you could "volunteer" to take her to the vet and keep her until the stitches come out. That way you know she's been spayed and she received the best aftercare. Just a thought.


 You know what.. That is a good idea. *"If you pay for her spaying (or even half?), I'll take her in and she's all yours." :lol:* If she has to be rehomed... I want her to have a large yard with a good tall fence... Maybe a dog friend who is her size or bigger, and kids!!! She is AMAZING with children.


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## LittleBettaFish

Hot dogs, kabana and twiggys are really high value treats for our dogs. Some dogs do just have very poor focus/attention spans.

My dog Nike has what I call the 'Nike Zone' where she completely becomes fixated on something and you may as well be peeing into the wind trying to get her to focus on you. 

Best thing I have found is to anticipate the sorts of things that cause the above and prevent it from happening rather than trying to correct it while it is happening.

There is one training technique I have seen on Youtube called 'LAT' or Look At That. I was going to try teaching it to Nike as it seems good for reactive/excitable dogs.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

"What's the problem," was big in my vocabulary. Or, "Are you kidding me? You're afraid of _that_?" They don't understand the words but they understand the tone. 

You could also have someone else take the picture while you pet her or you could take the photo while they're petting her. They can be afraid of the darndest things, can't they?


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## Sena Hansler

"LAT"? Never heard of it!

I purposely make her do some things, where I have her calmed down (mental and physical "walk" lol) such as walking by the other VERY excitable dog. She did very good, as I gave the leash a firm (not choking!) snap, and she focused back on me. 

I also notice she will not look me in the eye. Only men. Not females! :roll: Listens to Scott 98% of the time, me 65% of the time. Since I'm the one who mainly cares for her, and I am NOT lower than she is, she has to learn to listen to me anyways :lol:

I use a gester and move towards her to get her to move back if she is crowding the door. Then closed hand, means she sits, which she does. One finger up "wait", and she stays. She knows what she can do, and I know what she can do...


OH YEAH we had a run in with little kitty. Brought the dog in from the pee break, kitten was sitting about 5 feet away. She puffed up in surprise, the dog looked equally surprised :lol: But did not lunge, tense, etc.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

Old obedience training technique: Take the food, put it close to her nose and bring it slowly up to your face. When she looks at you, she gets the treat. Some people would say "Watch Me." I said "Hey, you." While she looks at you (i.e., the food), quietly praise for about 10 seconds before she gets the treat.

She must have had a weak or no female owner.


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## Sena Hansler

Well I know for a fact the previous people... He has a pregnant wife, so she can't do much (she is pretty far along). Which did not help it just reinforced it. 

Haha "hey you!" :lol: That's a funny one. Mom does "watch me" for both of their dogs.


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## LittleBettaFish

We have a 'Watch' command that our dogs (are supposed to) know. 

Some dogs also just don't like looking people in the eye as I assume they find it intimidating/dominating/threatening. Our dog Ares hates looking my mum in the eye because he knows he is going to have to do something if he does. 

The LAT I believe is designed to keep the dog within threshold so that they are capable of learning. Once you go past that threshold the levels of excitement/fear/aggression mean that no learning is going to be taking place.


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## Sena Hansler

Hmm, I'll look it up. My dad's dog will look "at" you, but not into your eyes. I don't mind it, I've met dogs who stare me right back down (I will still win because I lack the fear of being bitten. They have my arm in their mouth, it gets to stay there until they realize I don't care :roll: I dealt with a beagle like that. :roll:


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I competed in and taught obedience for donkey's years. I got so tired of hearing "Watch me!" I could have spit. Especially since most of the dogs didn't.

Now, my German Shepherd, Seger, knew "Watch 'Em!" Seger was a big, intimidating boy with the personality of a puppy. To train him, I would hand a friend a cookie and as they held it face high, I would say "Watch 'em, Seger!" and he would watch. Of course, all strangers saw when I said "Watch 'em!" was a GSD coming to attention, ears erect, eyes alert, staring them in the face and posture intimidating.....never knowing he wasn't about to attack; but was anticipating they had treats for him. LOL


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## LittleBettaFish

Ares is so funny. When he does obedience with my mum he never looks at her. He deliberately turns his head in the opposite direction. 

He hates obedience though. He gets bored and his returns off lead make it look like we beat him to a pulp every night. 

What I wouldn't give for an enthusiastic dog haha.


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## Sena Hansler

Lol!


Well, as stated before she had a collar months ago... Name, no number, no address. As a "just in case" as she was probably missing for... 3-6 months now, I've posted in a few places nearby (4 hours distance) with just her name... But they have to prove they own her of course. With an unusual name (Getti) either someone knows, or no one cares.


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## LittleBettaFish

Has she been checked for a microchip?


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## Sena Hansler

Not yet. She will be, but I doubt she has one due to the fact spaying/chipping is the most common as it is cheaper that route than chipping by itself (and the dog does not even know it happened ;p)


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## Skyewillow

It sounds like you're already making some sort of headway with her, Sena. I believe that if you're dedicated to teaching her, she will learn. Think of it as practice for your future munchkin's terrible twos, and teen years. XD

I hate to say it (mostly because people think I'm nuts) but in my experience, raising a younger child is like raising a dog. Repetition! (Only the dog was easier to teach to stay out of things she's not supposed to get into)

My dog only averts her gaze when I'm eating. I don't like being stared at when I'm trying to eat something... if she keeps her eyes averted, I'll "accidentally" drop something after I'm done, like a small piece of chicken or beef.


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## Sena Hansler

Lol! Well she has to get along with the cat. That's my main concern! No eating kitties


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## Polkadot

She is a beautiful looking dog and sounds like she is learning fast and settling in,she sounds like she will be a wonderful friend.Dogs are very special and definitely deserve a forever home.My dogs don't like the camera either,especially Ned & Maggie,they will run over and jump at it,lol.I have to take their photos quickly.Alot of dog's don't like looking people straight in the eyes as it is a dominant type thing in the dog world.Some don't mind it though,probably as she gets to know you more and gets more comfortable she won't mind.I hope you can get her desexed,as mentioned already,there are alot of animal organisations around that have lowered fees as it is so important.Here in Australia the animal shelters do not sell dogs/puppies and cats/kittens before they are desexed,health checked,vaccinated and microchipped,which is very good. 

P.S. What is her name?


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## Sena Hansler

Doesn't have a name yet. Definitely not sticking to "Getti" :lol:

I'm also annoyed at the "um, didn't you bring her to the vet to check for a chip??" Emails I got from posting on kijiji about the dog. Am I not allowed to do word of mouth??? THANKS TIPS I know to do that it's on my list of "things to do" :roll: I'm guessing word of mouth is a "bad thing to do"?? If someone recognizes the name, they hae to give me every detail: age, sex, fixed or not, breed she is, picture, etc. if someone tells me "bichon male that's 2 years old" obviously they are wrong :lol: she is not a freeby, I thought I'd DOUBLE THE CHANCES if there IS NO CHIP.

Oh and for those who don't know, here, you can change the chip info. Without the owner's permission. Which is stupid. But it happens.


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## Sena Hansler

Possible news:

Getti may have been a long lost dog.

Posted on an Alberta Lost Pet Locator, and immediately the starter of the site said she was posted before for a couple of days.... Waiting to verify. THIS is why I posted, as of course, who knows, right? She could have been stolen, lost, abandoned etc you never know.


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## Sena Hansler

Just shows what daily walks can do... She barely pulled at the beginning, then walked beside me with tons of slack on the leash. Came across a lady and her three dogs (mediumish dog, a bichon, and a littler dog) Which the lady let only one dog come see us as her smallest was too skittish and her biggest was too aggressive. It went okay... Until the bichon panicked and set "Getti" off. Then she did her spins, snarling, etc with me. :roll: But I did tell the lady beforehand my dog IS excitable. 

Then we came across another dog. With no owner. Off leash. :roll: Labrador gal, 14 years old named Katie :lol: PERFECT. Same size, very calm and not dominant at all. Perfect dog to meet. They got along. So we walked along until we found her owner, an older gent who laughed at the fact Katie brought home a new friend.


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## SeaHorse

Sena Hansler said:


> Possible news:
> 
> Getti may have been a long lost dog.
> 
> Posted on an Alberta Lost Pet Locator, and immediately the starter of the site said she was posted before for a couple of days.... Waiting to verify. THIS is why I posted, as of course, who knows, right? She could have been stolen, lost, abandoned etc you never know.


Oh please keep up posted on this new info!! We all love to hear of happy endings. 
And Thank You for what you are doing for this sweet baby!


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## Destinystar

Yes keep us posted and there was a report in the area where I live that someone is driving around in a truck and stole a dog from someones yard. I am not letting my dog Barkley out of my site and of course I never did anyway but still that really frightened me so yes you never know. Best of luck to you and Getti !


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## Sena Hansler

Yep here is the same, except it is two men in a silver SUV with no plates. Basically, no dog can be in your yard, chained up, behind a large fence, it doesn't matter. That and "free to good home" turns to "accidentally given to dog fighters" without knowing.


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## Sena Hansler

Brought her to the vet to check for a micro chip.

She did her famous one minute long pee, then pooped (yes I cleaned up, I'm not a bad owner for those who would hark on that statement), then we went in. They have two "mascot" cats there - two fat orange kitties :lol: Met the first one which the dog just sniffed him, didn't lunge, pull, bite, snarl, or anything! Second one was also met while we waited, which went fine. 

I think she has learned not to go after indoor cats. Outdoor... Well... We'll work on that. :lol:

So the vet checked for the chip twice over. Even checked spots it could have floated to. Nope. None. So "Getti" the dog has a lesser chance of finding her old home, if there is any.

So, my plan is saving 200.00 for next month, to get her first shots and rabies shots done. This pay I'll get her a nametag with phone number and possibly address as well. Since she is a runner... Don't want her to be lost!

Then 6 weeks after she gets her follow-up shots, then after she gets spayed. Now that we know she is getting along with indoor cats, once I get some things organized I'll start integrating her into the house with the kitty.. Though she will not be left alone with her due to any possible "incidents".


I will say, I know animals sense more than we can. Vets are like hospitals are to some of us... Something feared. And she was shaking with her tail tucked between her legs.


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## Sena Hansler

Last picture is after she decided to freak out... I swear she thinks the camera is a gun. Not pointed at her or anything, she is fine when it is around but the very quiet "click" sound it makes when taking a picture sets her off. I just don't understand why? And I've tried so hard to let her see it, smell it, even when it clicks. But I don't know what the trigger is? 

Anyways, I was able to snag a few pictures anyways.


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## Polkadot

She's lovely! :-D


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## Sena Hansler

Ugh she is back to trying to munch on the cat. Though... The cat did try to smack the dog's muzzle when I wwas holding her :roll: :lol: 

I pointed out to Scott that if we cannot get her to a good spot where I will be able to handle her when I am further along (for those who don't know, I am pregnant. And those with stupid comments I'm PREGNANT and NOT broken.), and when the kid comes... I'm not going to be able to handle her period. I'm the one who feeds, waters, walks. 

But all else fails I know quite a few good people who would love her to death, but first we have to finish the "we'll see" period onto the "debating" period.


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## dramaqueen

That dog is lucky to have found you. She's getting a lot of love and good care now.


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## TakingthePlunge

She's looking much more improved from the first picture! Every single dog is different. My dog (that is now an emotional support dog, for my father with ptsd) would pee all over herself if you so much as looked at her too hard when she was younger. She was just super submissive. However, it was that exact tendancy that made my tough, angry father soften up. He worked so hard with her to comfort her and make it to where she wasn't always afraid. It really completely changed his life since coming back from overseas, and now she's registered as a service animal! So, you see, even "trouble dogs" can become the best dogs ever. 

From the camera incident, I am going to think that she is a submissive dog at home, because she knows that is YOUR territory, where as she's acting up outside because she thinks of it as HER territory. You're doing the right things, though. Great job with increasing her training, by the way! We have to do that with our Rott/Chow/Ovcharka mix. He's so super lazy/laid back at home (which is the Ovcharka), but acts like he doesn't know what "sit" means unless you have food in your hand. He's listening much better now that we've discovered tat he is both affection and food oriented. 

Again, best of luck, and she's looking so much healthier.


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## Sena Hansler

Lol I need her to also not take treats WITH my fingers :roll:


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## bettalover2000

I hope you find her owner, I think Leila would be a nice name. Much better than Getti! LOL How's pregnancy? Do you need baby names?


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## Sena Hansler

Any tips on training to get used to and even love a muzzle?

On our walk today, we were walking back when I spotted an older man and his little dog. She saw them too, from like 1.5 blocks away. This was a smaller dog than we have dealt with before (with our encounter with the bichon), and I warned him right away when he was close enough that she was not good with small dogs so not to come too close. With the gravel road between us, my dog decided (she was on my right but soon became to be on my left because of this) to lunge, snarl, then freak out knowing I would not let her go. This wasn't an "I'M SO EXCITED LEMME AT IT!" behavior at all. This was a "LEMME AT IT SO I CAN KILL IT" behavior. (I've dealt with both once upon a time :roll 

She then decided to turn onto ME as I was the reason she couldn't get the dog. Came pretty close to biting my hand. I am NOT impressed -.- So for the safety of myself (and others, and other's pets) I would like to resort to that muzzle use...


Bettalover: I'm thinking "Pan" for the dog. Short, simple... Short form of Pandora actually :lol: That was a name kicking around for a while for the dog. 

Pregnancy sucks. Plain and simple. Can't move "this or that way" because of the wondrous round ligament. :roll: Hungry with no appetite, disliking 95% of things I ate the day before, stretch marks thanks to water retention, tired, achey, hip STILL hurts... Blech. Names will be for when we know the gender  We do have two names... One boy one girl


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## LittleBettaFish

Unfortunately, with the muzzle you are still going to have to train out/manage the underlying behaviour. A muzzle may stop her biting, but may make her feel more trapped as she cannot defend herself. 

It seems quite a number of dogs misdirect back onto their owners in regards to leash aggression. A lot of dogs feel vulnerable on the leash and so they lash out because they are afraid. 

One method I have found that sometimes works is making every experience with dogs a happy one. What I used to do with our dog is take a whole heap of treats along and as soon as I saw another dog in the distance I would start shovelling treats into her mouth. I found doing this while keeping the dog walking along at a brisk pace can help prevent some of the worse behaviour. 

If you think the dog is getting overstimulated or past its threshold, that is when you get her feet moving and her mind off the other dog and on you. It's the only thing that works on my dog once she reaches the point where I can't get her focus back on me. I physically remove her from the situation by turning around or going a different way as it is just going to get her more frustrated and scared if I let her just stand there and watch the dog get closer and closer.

I wouldn't feed her until after a walk as that way your treats are going to have a higher value. Work on the NILF (Nothing in life is free) system in that if she wants to get that treat she is going to listen to you and not be mucking about.


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## Sena Hansler

Fine then I return the muzzle like initially planned. Plain and simple I won't put up with a dog who bites. She clamps down, I don't pull back either. I've dealt with a little s- of a dog who had an idiot owner. I held my hand there (and a hand on the front of his collar) until he spat it out and realized it didn't scare me and he would not win.

The fact that she actually stopped and looked at me before lashing out at me was unbelievable. Blind "rage" they don't pause, they just do it - which is most common.

I've tried treats and she doesn't care - she's outside. Faster walking she still cuts me off. Having myself not in her way doesn't help (having her on the left rather than the right). Even having her sit, just builds excitement - funny thing is she plants her butt right on the ground no half-ass sitting (no pun intended) :lol: usually they sit "above the ground" in wait to lunge.

I don't want to "walk away" from the issue, which doesn't resolve anything. Her show of this aggression wasn't fear. She greets big and medium dogs close to her size or bigger, just fine. Being so typically submissive, this is the one thing she tries to be dominant over. With calm small dogs nonetheless.

Example of explosive "energy": 1.5 hour walk almost dragging her behind us she lunges at a cat. Cats around here just sit. And stare.  their way too used to dogs. Just the sight triggers - whether cat or dog. Maybe the size reason?

As for whose domain is whose: she does not walk out that door until I say she can. We can stand there for 15 minutes until I say we go, if she doesn't plant that butt snd wait. She's more troublesome in the house than outdoors. Only established "set in stone" indoor rule she's grasped is BEDROOM IS MY ROOM! Not hers :lol: for indoor training the leash is going to be my "weapon of choice" :roll:


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## RussellTheShihTzu

Have you thought of a "Halti"? It's like a bridle on a horse: You control the head. When I was giving lessons, those worked quite well on dogs such as yours.

Does she attempt to rise if you have her sit/stay when a dog goes by? I ask because a good way to deal with the situation. You correct her for not sitting and staying; not for showing interest in the other dog/cat/person/car. I hope that makes sense.

Like you, I believe avoidance is a last resort. The dog has to learn I'm in control and the only bitch in my house who bites is ME!

Never heard it called NILIF, but it's great way to approach training.

I will bet you somewhere in her previous life a little dog teased her by running a fence, etc.; or, a cat sat just out of reach which would give her a hatred of small critters. Mine absolute hate Shelties because a couple used to walk by our house and turn their Sheltie loose to run our fence. They thought the dogs were playing. When I informed them that wasn't playing but my dogs trying to figure out how to kill their dog, they were shocked and stopped with profuse apologies.


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## LittleBettaFish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA

http://clickerleash.wordpress.com/2...itive-approach-to-dealing-with-reactive-dogs/

This video illustrates how to get reactive dogs calm. The idea is you start slow and aim to keep the dog below threshold. 

I've been meaning to buy a clicker and try this at home with my dog.


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## Sena Hansler

Russel, halti might be a good idea - IF she is willing to wear it. They had her on a halter which I tossed out because those things are useless unless you WANT to be dragged :lol: Was also thinking of the double collar - which actually does work. Since the collars slip down to the "muscle" area giving less control that one can't slip down, letting you have control of the dog moreso than the regular collar. I'll try a few things.

When she sits, she sits. She'll try standing a few times but I make her sit again. But with little dogs she won't listen at all. She doesn't seem to want to kill the kitten though - and I can make her walk by cats (as long as I see he cat first) even made her sit in front of one who sauntered off, and sit and watch a colony of cats (thenfact we have a cat colony is annoying...) walk off as well. I wanted to be able to introduce her to my parent's dogs, but I'm not risking a fight (dad's beagle basset gives back exactly what she is given - she's a tank!) or an attack (mom's dog is a small shitzu lhasa). 

Was thinking of clicker training. It's like a dollar for a cheapy. 

Though now I've got her to understand she has to wait for me to say she can eat. She dips her nose down, and I make a "tss" sound which is really the only short sound she listens to (not commonly heard in words?) and tell her to watch me.


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## Sena Hansler

This dog tries a little TOO hard to please. She understands that the spare room is currently hers.. (until we integrate her into the rest of the household, due to kitty) however, in the kitchen is NOT where she gets fed, it's in her room. So she won't eat her food, even when I handed her a piece she kindly takes it (as if not to offend me :roll then places it on the floor!

Then she just sat there. Waiting. To be fed. :shock2: So I grab her food bowl and we go to "her" room and she waits for me to tell her to eat... And she eats. :roll:

"Room stuff is mine. House stuff not mine." :frustrated: close enough I guess. :roll:


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## Sena Hansler

I will say how frustrating it is for the fact that she fewrs and respects men, whike listens maybe 5% to woman. Aka me. I wanted to let her roam the yard, but I stood by the gate since the wood has rotted and the latch is gone (gate looks "closed"). Only thing she does is barrel past me - except I grabbed her collar :roll: I intend to build a taller fence, perhaps blockade it temporarily. For the time being she has been on a leash.

I don't trust keeping dogs on leashes (tie outs?) unsupervised. My GSD pup (RIP) was tied out and he got himself wrapped around the metal tie out piece - I had to cut his halter loose because it was so tightly wound :roll:


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## Sena Hansler

She's now taken to growling at me outdoors. Not indoors, just outdoors. Which is funny since outdoors has been the area I have been working with her the most on. Indoors has been simply "leave it", "sit" and "stay". Outdoors has been all of the above and ten times more! :roll:

Except again, I am not afraid of attacks, or this behavior.


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## Sena Hansler

Well today near the beginning of our walk thunder started up. Then rain. Then lightning. Nice thing is she is not afraid of thunder storms. But of course she waited until it was pouring rain to pee -.- However... She knows where home is. She wasn't paying attention so I dropped the leash. She even waited for me to open the door, unleash her, and tell her to go in.


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## SeaHorse

All great stuff... big steps forward knowing what spooks her and doesn't! You are doing an awesome job!!


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## Sena Hansler

Bah everything scares her :lol: It is rather confusing... Having to be dominant towards her (like walking straight to her, otherwise she won't pay attention) yet she fears dominance. It's weird. :lol:


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## darkangel

she looks like the perfect dog to have a bandana!!


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## Sena Hansler

:lol: A bandana?


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## darkangel

wrapped around her neck?


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## Sena Hansler

Is there a reference for that? Lol. Or just how she looks?


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## darkangel

you just wrap a bandana around the dog, its super popular around my town. here is a link: http://www.dfordog.co.uk/union-jack-dog-bandana.html

btw you have your PM turned off, did you see my post in the classified section?


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## Sena Hansler

Yeah I realized that I reactivated it lol! No I didn't see the post


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## RussellTheShihTzu

Better late than never. 

You place the Halti and then feed bits of treats to help them get used to it. They work extremely well for dogs that pull. 

Or, you could use an old Field Trial trick and half-hitch. Leash goes from collar to under belly where you half hitch. You're actually controlling from the rear end. I've seen two-year-olds walk large dogs with this method. 

Here's a YouTube that shows how it's done. Very effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TszV_3y3Qcw


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## Sena Hansler

Uh... No. Not doing the half hitch. I already know she will try to flail, and in turn hurt herself, or shut down completely. 


Since technically the collar slips down to where all the muscle in a dog's neck is, it is less effective to train a dog who pulls with just "any collar". The illusion collar, helps with controlling the dog because it can't slip down. The halti, and/or this collar I know works. And one store here sells both =D She does not have breathing problems (until she chokes herself by frantically trying to go after a dog, see a person, or flailing :roll, nor any of the "don't use on" breeds. I'm going to give both a try.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

If those don't work, the trick to the half-hitch is to put it on the dog and let them get used to it without moving. Then, with it loose, hold food and let the dog do the walking.

This was an effective way for clients with shoulder injuries to walk their dogs without resorting to pinch collars....which don't bother me. Used them frequently.


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## Sena Hansler

Meh never saw a dog who listened to a pinch collar anymore than a regular one :lol: People also have issues with shock collars. The actual new ones you do pay a decent price for... They don't fry the dog :roll: If used properly, and not some "over seas" one, it won't do harm. I never had a use for those things though. 

Actually come to think of it... I have never heard her bark. Not at a person, dog, me, nothing.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

Many a Giant Breed I helped was trained on a small pinch despite the naysayers. If you size them right, they listen. The trick is to buy the small size and add links. Those medium+ sizes are useless and hanging them low on the neck rends them useless, too. You put them high on the neck behind the ears in that little dip. Never saw a dog that didn't respond to that.  

I forgot to say for those who might be interested: Had my elementary and AKC Novice obedience students use the half-hitch to teach the "stand;" my Utility obedience students used it for the "moving stand" exercise, my confomation students used it to teach stacking and baiting and Gary and I use it to teach "whoa."

Never used a shock collar except in the field when a bird dog decided he or she wanted to be a deer or rabbit... or worse, a skunk... dog. ;-)


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## Sena Hansler

Have a picture I will add soon. Was teaching her to leave the cat food alone (I know. Endless battle. But I did not say she could have it, did I?) and then comes in kitty who wants to eat her food. So got the two "leave its" and the dog there in one picture LOL


What breeds have white tipped tails? Looks like kids cut her tail, because white grew in... Almost a skunk stripe at the tip LOL. And it's very stark white for a tan/black gal.


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## Sena Hansler

The cat made it more of a pain to teach "leave it". Because then she had her two fav things under her nose... Delicious food, and delic- err, furry kitty.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

You mean cut tail or cut the hair on the tail? Scarring causes white hair to come in on dark dogs; dark hair comes in on light dogs. Which is why show people get their dogs' vacs on the right (non-judging side) instead of the left. I know, more useless information.


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## Sena Hansler

Cut the hair. Not the tail.


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## Sena Hansler

I made sure to ask Scott if he were okay with getting a dog, numerous times. And each time he said yes. Now I figure he is there for the "good things" like the dog wanting to be near him and nowhere near me (aka he can be walked over) and nothing else including walks, going outside, training, feeding, watering, etc. 

If this stays one sided, she won't get better. And I know this. We'll work on getting her shots and such, and we'll see after that. But if I cannot rely on him, especially when I won't be able to walk her (especially winter time AND pregnant? Hell no.), or bring her outside, or any of that... Then how is this supposed to work? :roll:


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## Sena Hansler

Joni mentioned she sees the beagle in the dog :roll: Great. Explains a buttload of issues, including the stubbornness, the "can walk off leash only if totally bloody exhausted, and the leash pulling. Beagles themselves need to be trained from day one, and given more than just "a lot" of exercise. I know. I've lived with one. And he was a right terror, because he was not trained fully, they half-assed it, then slacked after that. So he had full "terrorizing territory".

So now we know: German shepherd, Labrador, beagle. Personally what an awful mix x.X :lol: We have the smart, the ball chasing, and the stubborn smashed into one dog. BAH! :x

Anyways, along with that discovery I will also note beagles I have been around and seen looooove small things to chew. Eat. Demolish. Chase. Aka cats and even smaller dogs (hence why training at the impressionable young ages is absolutely positively without a doubt needed).

I am getting her tags today. I was going to get (reminder, dog's name is no longer "Getti") Pan's collar, but now I can't since Jim (beardie) needs a new heat lamp, since his died. I've temporarily used a household bulb, which has not needed to be used too much thanks to the boiling weather :roll: I might walk her there. Get all the piss and vinegar out, make her subjected to a foreign situation (pet store) etc.

On the note of Pan... Think she realized I've had enough. She almost tripped me (we have a step/ledge between the addition aka bootroom, and the kitchen), then almost yanked me down the stairs outside. DANGEROUS. 

I hauled her back, she tried to "dominate" (standing up on two legs, bringing paws over your arms, is NOT acceptable), and I plopped her butt right back down by her scruff and just outright snapped. "I am NOT putting up with this crap anymore! ENOUGH!" And yes, I know, dogs don't understand blah blah blah, raising your voice (I was not yelling, just not using my "indoor" voice) is bad so on so forth... It wasn't even out of anger, just "fed up, had enough, sit down and shut up" kind of moment. 

Well she didn't pull. And she doesn't even wait for me to "make" her sit at the door, she did it herself. And sat at the stairs. And waited for me to go up the stairs first. Then waited for me to tell her she may come in.

I do have a video for you, with me dropping the leash, outside, the same day. Not exactly sure how she extracted "I should probably stop what I am doing" from what happened.

I'll get the video up soon. You should note the posture she had (head lowered, tail lowered, looks at me a few times, etc. She didn't even hurt the cat... And really the cat instigated a lot of the possible nips she could have given x.x You'll see what I mean :lol: I don't usually say anything to her during walks, because it is obvious words were used way too much for this dog that she "tuned people out". Will probably also book her first shots (100.00) for next pay.


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## Sena Hansler

*video*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIY4iVXIn8&feature=youtu.be


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## Sena Hansler

*Problem*

I understand a part of what I'm going to say is due to her not being spayed, and yes, we are working on that (will be October). But in the meantime, what can we do?

I got her a large ball. Mind as well, it'll give her something to do. I roll it to her and when she realized what it was she pounced it, and then brought it over all proud and such- I go to let her "give it", and she instead locks her legs over mine and tears it from me! 

Then whether or not I am facing her (I tried to "ignore" via turning away) and she jumps to MAKE you play. You know how some dogs jump on others to instigate play? That's what she is doing. With people. And in turn she has hurt me (considering her jump level is BELLY level). I took the ball away, and once it was knowingly out of the room (hiding behind you, does not work) she calmed right down.


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## Sena Hansler

*Dominance*

So her "first off" appearance was submissive.

Oh.

Hell.

No.

She's dominant. Right from a trainer who deals with dominant dogs:

*"Pushing through doors, inside or outside, before you." *She does it. It is still a struggle most days, except on really hot days when I still make her go for a short walk. Between the hot weather and being tired, she listens better :roll: Not that I aim to overheat her.

*"Jumping or reaching for food or treat before it is put down or in reach. " *She does do that. I also found she knows how to dance, which we may have to exclude as a "trick" to keep her down.

*"Putting his or her feet on you, standing on or pawing at you." *This is exactly what she does! And I know exactly what she is trying to do and I don't like it. And I make it known, by having to over dominate HER.

*"Trying to be physically taller than you." *Only with women, not men, when sitting with her. She tries to make herself taller by raising her head. No mounting, just the "I'm bigger than you!" bull. With men she cowers in their laps. 

*"Getting on furniture before you or before being given permission." *She does it with thought too. "I know I am not suppose to, but I want to."

*"Reluctance to move from a spot you want to sit on, walk through or put something in." *Ugh. This coincides with furniture. And getting in my way. A way of "herding" so to speak.

*"Reluctance to release food or toys." *Toys are hers. She may drop it. But she has the look of... "Go ahead. Grab it. I dare you." It's all a part of HER game.

*"Reluctance to obey simple, normal commands such as sit, go-out, get-off, etc. May be a refusal or slow compliance." *Repetitive sucks, but is needed. Even then tons of relapse!

*"Running into you or jumping on you hard during play. This is a display of physical superiority and rights." *EXACTLY what she does. And then I take the toy away, and leave. The second the toy is gone, I can go back in and she has calmed down 110%. 

*"Holding chews or toys against you while chewing or playing with toy." *Coincides with her pushing, shoving, jumping, when playing.

*"Any attempt to shove you out of the way when walking, sitting with, moving past or laying with you." *She will move out the way for us, but wants us to move out of her way.

*"Getting playful or cute instead of obeying when told to do things. The dog may obey briefly and immediately resume previous behavior." *Mainly the "don't hurt me" cuteness. Which does not work on me.

Unfortunately all the "what to do's" they mentioned on their blog/page/thing I've already done. But it's finding the right amount of dominance and gentleness, with having to lean further towards dominance. Too much she shuts down into a fetal position of "don't hurt me!" 

Looks like it is more buckling down than I thought.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

When I got a rescue dog, I assumed nothing had been done "right." So I started from scratch as if the dog were a puppy. Even if it knew commands, I trained as if it didn't.

Two or three 15 minute training sessions per day: Sit, down, stay ("Come" is later).

Walks only with small pinch collar with extra links (if needed). No leads longer than six feet.

If they got excited or started acting unacceptably, crated for 15 minutes. Training session (maybe only five minutes) and then regular activities.

If they attempted to jump up, I walked forward into them without saying a word. The pack leader does so silently (hardest lesson for me to learn). The walking forward is also an old conformation trick to make the dog being shown wait at a distance for their bait. 

If they attempted to put feet on my arm, I dropped the arm (no vocal reprimand).

To teach them to take treats nicely (dogs with unknown origins only; never puppies), I shove my fist down their throat (treat is in fist). Awful, aren't I? Or I quick pop them full force on the front of their nose with the back of my closed hand (treat in hand). I yell "Ouch" really loud with either method. Works fast and well and the dog thinks *it* caused the problem because *I* yelled." 

It's hard with a rescued do to know what's truly dominant and what is learned. A non-dominant dog will try anything once; if the people who owned Pan before reacted by giving in to the first attempt, it could be learned dominant behavior instead of natural. Took me a while to figure that one out, too.


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## Sena Hansler

Lol I've done the bop-on-the-nose trick for treats  

As for the collar, the one I have tightens when she pulls, and loosens once she stops. Not sure how I snagged that collar :roll: but it works. I want to find a "handle leash". Made usually for large dogs who don't need extra leash, it's just a handle! Would be good for training. Also wanting to grab a 5 meter leash soley for ball-playing.

I've figured out the toy thing. Since she is dominant, I have to over dominate her! So the toy... Is mine. Can she play with it? Maybe. If I say so. I can bounce it. Doesn't mean she can have it. I can toss it up in the air. Still mine. I can set it down. Still mine. Then I tell her to come get it or I toss it to her. When I want it back, I walk forward and say "drop it", then make her back away (I taught her "back off" which works... She's not dumb, just stubborn!) then it's mine and I can take it.

So we will work on that outdoors. She cannot be offleash (our "off leash" areas are not fenced, one is owned by a construction company behind the busiest parkinglot aka walmart, and the other is a trail/park that sports has 98% control on hence why there is no fence...) so the huge long leash would be nice, out back in the field we have.

I've had one dog who needed 80% gentleness and 20% firm. He caught on fast that of course I loved him (still do and it sucks to have to rehome any animal...) but I still owned the home and yard, and controlled the walks and food. 

The GSD pup... Didn't really need anything  except interaction. And a mini pool  he was way too smart lol (I'd do it all over again with a smart GSD!!) 

This time it's completely different from anything I have done. 

However 10 points to her for NOT being a barking dog! Heard it forthe first time yesterday when we had a fella come in to take down a security sustem to move itto the owner's new house. All you hear is some whining then a really low quiet "wuff...wuff..." :lol: I don't mind a none barking dog. If we figure out how to fully get her on track that'll be handy for me and baby sleeping!!

I'll be sending you an email soon here


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## Sena Hansler

*YESTERDAY*
When we went for the walk, we tried the halti. She hated it. Got it off like... Three times. I guess they are made so the dog cannot get snagged and hurt? Because I have the back tightened enough to be firmly on without rubbing or pressing hard against her face. The front is a lot looser :lol: But eventually she stopped fighting it (lots of temper tantrums...).

Then we met a fella and his collie. He gave me some tips of where to go to train her via fields and such... One place is remote, and there is little to no chance of her getting hit by vehicles or wandering into a construction zone. That's where he took his collie (who apparently acted about the same lol) to train her. He also said that spaying definitely helped with his dog's behavior, and should do the same for Pan. 

They had a soccer ball... And she went bezerk over it :lol: She loves any ball! Then she proceeded to freak out and cry/whine when they left. :roll: We're working on it.

*TODAY*
So we went to the vet for her shots (they also sent me home with deworming pills to give to her a few days from now). 

She was good with the cats. The cats also did not run however. Looks like "indoor cats" will be easier to get her used to then outdoor cats - which is normally what people have found with their dogs too!

Then someone came in with their mini American Eskimo, I did not allow her to meet the small dog, and explained to him she gets over excited with small dogs, so both of us agreed to sit across the room from each other :lol: So Pan had to sit there, able to see and smell the dog from where we sat, but not allowed to greet, attack, play etc. Eventually she calmed down, showing interest but no excitement to the dog.

Then we met the vet - which now she is getting used to men more and more (has no choice), and did not cower from him. He could not take her temperature because unlike most dogs who try to scoot their bum away, she puts up a real fight not to have anything done that she deems unnecessary! :lol: But looking her over he asked if I were willing to take a chance with the vaccinations (since temperature tells us about fevers and such) and since she looks and acts healthy, no diarrhea or vomiting... We took the chance. 

The shots were not bad. She barely noticed it. She also got 4 treats out of it :lol: The last treat she was back on the floor, and actually sat there to receive the treat. (I also did not feed her before we went). In four weeks we go back to give her the final vaccination. 

When we were waiting out in the front room for the deworming pills and bill, a lady and her two kids (8 and 10 maybe?) came in. She does NOT jump on kids! Thank god. Good to know.

Then we saw a large dog come in (12 years old), who looked to be a Bernese, Shepherd mix (she said shepherd collie... She is a lot bigger than either of those, so she's a well mixed breed :lol such a friendly old gal! And again Pan proved to not mind bigger dogs. Sadly I believe I know why that old gal was there... Her back legs were so stiff and weak... And she couldn't hold her bladder. By the lady's tone, that poor ol' gal was at her end


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## Sena Hansler

Going to keep this thread updated.


First off, how many of you cringe at: jar'o'pennies.

Second: Depends how you use something. An idiot who has the remote to a shock collar, will either frustrate/anger or scare their dog. An idiot with a jar of pennies, will do the same. And idiot with a leash, can also do the same. 

So all in all, everything can be negative. It's how it is used, that makes a difference. 

Sound + attention = good things. Sound = good. 

Sound + more sound + scolding/leash pulling = bad things. Sound = bad. 

Constant sound = annoying. Annoyed = ignore. 

I may not be good at math, but that is pretty simple (and is a part of common sense). I used the jar of pennies for my GSD (mainly his sight was the issue) and he learned if he came over when he heard it he got a treat/toy/pat/praise. I'm doing the same with her.


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## Sena Hansler

Quick update - as you can see some progress is happening. 

Actually, I bribed her for this  Getting her to learn that I am much more rewarding than a random person across the street, or a block away. Since she won't touch treats that are actually good for her and are less likely to cause an upset tummy... I broke down and resorted to Purina junk, "Beggin' Strips", chopped into smaller pieces, so she didn't get: 1. full, 2. sick.

Treats are not going to be permanent either. I'm going to use more than just treats to get her to know "come" doesn't mean fun ends, or nothing happens. But treats were good to use for this time, and next time maybe it is just a toy, or praise.


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## logisticsguy

She is so cute Sena. Its nice to see your making good progress with her.


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## ANHEL123

Sena how is your dog doing? She is sooo cute! 
I also adopted a dog 2.8 y ago. The shelter i took her from is 6 hrs away from where i live , so they found someone who they know to drive her to us. I also never met my dog, i only saw her pictures. i I spoke to them literally every day. They post me her pictures daily,they told me the problem that she had which they knew that it was a little problem for me. The shelter doctor examined her, they spay her. Pretty much, after talking to Adoption Coordinator daily i understood they care about their dogs , not that they just want to get rid of them. I really trusted them. They ask me for a few references, and talked to both of my manager's (i am working at a few medical facilities) .
If any one will ever want to adopt the dog from a shelter i would really recommend the shelter i adopted my dog. We just lucky to have her, she is wonderful !
If any one want to know the shelter let me know and i will give all information.


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