# Red VT x Black Marble HMPK



## Fenghuang

I'll admit I'm a bit intimidated by the prospect of creating a spawn log, but here goes nothing...

I first introduced the pair yesterday but pulled them after about 5 hours because the female was looking exhausted and the courtship was going nowhere. Well, female immediately perked up after the removed her and today, she looked like she was chomping at the bits to go, so I re-released her again.

Lo and behold, after leaving them alone for just 30 minutes to take the dog out, I came back to eggs.

Time of spawning is 4/24/16 between 5-6 pm. It's a relatively small spawn, maybe 20-30 eggs. 

The Sire (his fins have looked better, he got into a fight with another male recently)



The Dam (current plus older photo, her marble gene will be interesting)





Post Spawn


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## trilobite

Following this one!!
My eevt died but this was actually a similar coloured cross that I wanted to do with him, so Im going to eagerly watch your guys babies and see how they turn out

Good luck with baby raising and keep us updated with pics!!


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## Fenghuang

trilobite said:


> Following this one!!
> My eevt died but this was actually a similar coloured cross that I wanted to do with him, so Im going to eagerly watch your guys babies and see how they turn out
> 
> Good luck with baby raising and keep us updated with pics!!


Thank you, Trilobite! I'm sorry about your male. I remember thinking how alike our two VTs looked.



Current count after male sorted out the clusters and reorganized them neatly is now up to 40 eggs. So far he seems to be a dilligent father, but I mean, it is a fairly manageable size for a first time dad. He keeps picking the eggs up in his mouth and rotating them and making little fixes here and there. When he fand the nest with his pectoral fins, it looks pretty funny because they're so long. He seems unbothered by my hovering, which is good because otherwise we would be in trouble. 

I'm shocked and elated since I expected it to take hours. Female got very beat up, while the male has not a scratch on him. I fed them their last meal for the night and put them to bed (leaving a night light on for the male).


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## Fenghuang

Hm. I am beginning to worry the male helped himself to the eggs as a snack. I came down to check on them this morning and only spotted ONE egg in the nest.

This also makes me suspect that maybe the first spawning attempt was in fact successful and the male ate them all in the five hours I let them be. The female was acting just like yesterday after the successful spawning and the male was acting extremely aggressive with her which was why I had pulled her the first time.


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## Fenghuang

Okay, maybe I'm just freaking myself out. I see a couple more eggs or what look like eggs now. He is also still constantly scrutinizing the bottom like he is looking to see if he dropped any eggs.


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## BlueInkFish

Subscribing!!!!!! This is such a cool pair!


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## Fenghuang

Thank you, Blu! 

This is one of the times I curse my lack of a proper camera. I'm not the only one that sees little eyes right?


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## MysticSky22301

Oh I'm in love with that female! Wow she or her babies would pair well with my butterfly vt


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## Fenghuang

Thank you, Mystic. I would love to see a picture of your butterfly VT you if you have one. Butterfly VTs are one of my favorite betta varieties.


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## MysticSky22301

This is Hallow I'm pretty sure he's a butterfly atleat lol


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> This is Hallow I'm pretty sure he's a butterfly atleat lol


Ah, yeah, I see it. Although he is not quite there because he looks like he's missing the band on his anal. Still a lovely fish though. Is he a marble?


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## MysticSky22301

I don't think so I'm not sure because he was a Walmart lucky grab <3 hidden away just like my newest boy Mouse


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> I don't think so I'm not sure because he was a Walmart lucky grab <3 hidden away just like my newest boy Mouse


That is a lucky find. There are some real great VTs at unassuming pet stores/Walmarts, like diamonds in the rough. 


It is officially passed the 24 hour mark of the spawning. Let the waiting game begin. >.<


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## Fenghuang

48 hours in... I am calling it a dud, think the male was in fact eating the eggs. :-(

But it is storming heavily tonight and that seemed to agree with both of the pair so I have them back in the spawning tank again. Fingers crossed it'll take this time. I'll try to not get my hopes up too much until I see free swimming fry.


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## MysticSky22301

I'm crossing my fingers for you these will be lovely babies

I can't really get mouse to flare lol he's stubborn but a stunning black crown tail his rays are a little flimsy but he seems to be in good form otherwise. 

Oh! My 2 tiny Bettas from Petco have associated tweezers with food lol! I'm feeding them all tiny mealworms at the moment to bring out hidden colors and get my little Cambo girl to a healthy weight. she's a little thin and only accepts really REALLY small food the babies are eating bigger things than she will... I'm not sure what to do about her accept maybe drop her in the guppy fry tank for a little while to see if she decides to compete with them Thea my marble sure didn't she just happily eats anything without competing


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> I'm crossing my fingers for you these will be lovely babies
> 
> I can't really get mouse to flare lol he's stubborn but a stunning black crown tail his rays are a little flimsy but he seems to be in good form otherwise.
> 
> Oh! My 2 tiny Bettas from Petco have associated tweezers with food lol! I'm feeding them all tiny mealworms at the moment to bring out hidden colors and get my little Cambo girl to a healthy weight. she's a little thin and only accepts really REALLY small food the babies are eating bigger things than she will... I'm not sure what to do about her accept maybe drop her in the guppy fry tank for a little while to see if she decides to compete with them Thea my marble sure didn't she just happily eats anything without competing


So far, nothing's really happening. Everytime so far, the female is totally ready to go when there's walls between them or when she's cupped, but as soon as she's released, she goes shy on him and hides. And he doesn't go too far out of his way to try to tempt her out and woo her. She actually looks so pathetic, all clamped up and look terrified, but it appears to be an act. I actually experimented and showed them both one of my other girls to see if a little competition could speed things along (and maybe tire the male out because he is so intense and aggressive). And boy, both them came up and flared at the interloper. 

Also slightly worried that Panda's age might be hindering things. I've had her for a year in May (and she was 3 months when I got her). I am trying to not meddle, but it's incredibly difficult to not want to peek all the time. *big sigh*

I wish it was as easy to push them towards romance as it was to get them to flare. All of my flare readily.

Propping the cambo girl in the guppy fry tank may actually be good for her. I have heard that keeping them in a community tank with other more peaceful fish helps growth rate.


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## MysticSky22301

The Cambodian girl is a young adult they were feeding her food that was too large I'm finally getting her to eat well she's smaller than my marble but twice the size of the babies


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## MysticSky22301

I'll be in the same boat when I breed raze to the Cambodian girl he's older but really active and fiesty so I want to try once


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## trilobite

Aw no :-( Its always the ones that you really want to fry from that dont play by the rules. Sometimes I wish they were like guppies, to get them to breed just add water.

Fingers crossed she gives in to his charms


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> I'll be in the same boat when I breed raze to the Cambodian girl he's older but really active and fiesty so I want to try once


Well, the most common problem when you plan to pair an older female with a younger male is size. By the time you get to breed them, she may have grown too large to wrap. I don't know if there is actually any associated fertility issues with a female Panda's age (I mean, a year and three months isn't *that* old)... I just worry too much lol. You have an older male and a younger female, so size wouldn't be a problem. But older males may not have as much energy. It'll obviously be up to you to be the judge of whether or not Raze will be able to handle it.



trilobite said:


> Aw no :-( Its always the ones that you really want to fry from that dont play by the rules. Sometimes I wish they were like guppies, to get them to breed just add water.
> 
> Fingers crossed she gives in to his charms


Oh man, how many times I've wished that too! Or at least like my wild smaragdinas, that bred constantly.

They've been in overnight. Still don't see new eggs, but he has a big beautiful nest that he seemed to have a put a whole lot of work into. She is extremely eggy (she has those "glowing" ovaries that makes it really obvious). So far, I'm blaming it on him. He is just being super macho betta and keeps charging at her, all guns blazing, when she comes out of her corner and I think she's not into that. I dumped a big glob of live white worms in the tank for their breakfast and both came out and ate side by side calmly. 

I will scrap this attempt at 4 pm, which will be the 24 hour mark if they don't breed.


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## MysticSky22301

My guppies never have 100+ fry even with 3+ females popping at once lucky for me after dealing with gups I can cull pretty easily. It might sound mean but I use deformed and really ugly fry as feeders for my goldfish. Hopefully I don't go totally nuts if I get a bunch of cellophane Betta fry unless they have some color it reminds me of plain guppies bleh


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> My guppies never have 100+ fry even with 3+ females popping at once lucky for me after dealing with gups I can cull pretty easily. It might sound mean but I use deformed and really ugly fry as feeders for my goldfish. Hopefully I don't go totally nuts if I get a bunch of cellophane Betta fry unless they have some color it reminds me of plain guppies bleh


Lol, I love cellophanes. And mostly cello marbles. They're my absolute favorite. 

Like these. Ugh. I just love these. The first boy I owned. The second boy I saw recently at an LFS.





My female started off like this too. And her fins didn't start to look any good until I had her for a few months.


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## MysticSky22301

I like the marbled cellos actually ^^ but my goal is a black and red/orange butterfly HM EE possibly with blue rays I'll see how that goes before I try for the Rose tail


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## MysticSky22301

My bf on the other hand wats a really dark red finned CT EE Cambo so I'll have 2 projects


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## liamthen

Like these. Ugh. I just love these. The first boy I owned. The second boy I saw recently at an LFS.


:-D,on the opposite i don't like cello fish, i have so many of them from my marble spawns


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## ShadeSlayer

I just got a cellophane grey and black marble halfmoon. The pics of cellophanes are only feeding my idea of breeding him this summer.


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## MysticSky22301

Fen I love the blue boy in the back of your first picture <3


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## Fenghuang

liamthen said:


> :-D,on the opposite i don't like cello fish, i have so many of them from my marble spawns


Of course we all will have our own tastes. I guess colorless fish would be boring to some. But for me, they're simple and clean. 



ShadeSlayer said:


> I just got a cellophane grey and black marble halfmoon. The pics of cellophanes are only feeding my idea of breeding him this summer.


Ooh, show me! (Please lol) 



MysticSky22301 said:


> Fen I love the blue boy in the back of your first picture <3


Thanks, he is actually mainly my gf's fish, so he doesn't get much exposure on the forums! He was incredibly pale and faded at the Petsmart he was found out. Gf wasn't going to get him, but she texted me just before she left the store parking lot with some betta pictures (my kind of window shopping lol) and I had an inkling of how he was going to look and knew she would like it so I suggested she grab him too. 

He is a black orchid DeT. The irids just shows up better on camera than the rest of his colors. He is more difficult to photograph (think most black fish are), this is one of the *good* ones...


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## MysticSky22301

Some of his babies would work perfectly for my black butterfly EE project <3 he's stunning my EE pair will be here later this week and my butterfly hallow is the reason this project started (first picture)

My orchid boy is a beautiful crown tail his name is mouse (the burgundy band works out for the butterfly project)


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> Some of his babies would work perfectly for my black butterfly EE project <3 he's stunning my EE pair will be here later this week and my butterfly hallow is the reason this project started (first picture)
> 
> My orchid boy is a beautiful crown tail his name is mouse (the burgundy band works out for the butterfly project)


He is a handsome boy! Where does the EE come in? Do you have a female EE you're planning to use? 

Part of my goal with this pair (the one this spawn log was/is about) is VTEES. My male, I've gotten mixed feedback on; some people consider him a VTEE, while others do not. Either way, I think his larger than average pecs would benefit my project.


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## MysticSky22301

I've got a male and female pair coming in the mail ^^


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## Fenghuang

Soooooo~ I guess after multiple spawn attempts, she got sick and tired of waiting around for the boys to get a clue. 

I removed the male a couple of days ago, but left her in the spawn tank to recoup. This happened today.





The male and the backup male are both back in conditioning.


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## dcg

Fenghuang said:


> This happened today.


She has good instincts. :lol:


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## MysticSky22301

Haha some females do that


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## Fenghuang

She spent some time tending to them. And then I think she was like, "okay, I'm over this" and ate them the next day. :roll: Well, admittedly, we went out of town on a day trip so you know, _poor starving fishies...._ Haha. 

I don't know whether to use the original intended male or the backup male. Backup male is a blue marble dthm, so totally different color and type from the cross I wanted to do, but the red vt wouldn't court her anymore and just terrorized her. We may have found someone to take our culls, so I am not terribly worried about rehoming. 

The issue with the blue marble was that he was too meek. I left them together for three days and he was kind of afraid of her and kept swimming off or just ignoring her, while _she_ tried to flirt with him and get _him_ to swim under the IAL to build a nest. No damage occurred with them two together though. I have been keeping him isolated except to see her once a day for about 10 minutes.


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## Fenghuang

They're spawning!!!

Also, finally caught them wrapping. That's backup male btw.


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## MysticSky22301

So pretty


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## BlueInkFish

Wow! A beautiful photo! Good job Feng!!


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## trilobite

Yay :-D congrats! Backup male looks purdy, any pics of him?


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## Fenghuang

Guys, I may have messed up. :-( After they finished spawning, I knocked the glass lid into the tank adjusting a light and it destroyed the nest and caused all the eggs everywhere. I left the male in to see if he'll retrieve the rest but I don't know. 

Yesterday turned out to not be my day at all. Along with some other things, I got a few new guppies for my breeding colony but the best looking male leapt/flipped out of the bag as I was pouring out the old bag water. He bounced off the table onto the floor and broke his back. He struggled for an hour longer in the QT tank and then passed.



Here you go, Trilobite. 



Backup male's marbled now, but this an old picture. He has some stubby rays on his dorsal, so gotta watch out for that. This was right after I got him so his fins weren't fully grown in. 

I actually originally got him because he was a look alike for my old Vasuki in my avatar. He doesn't have the reds and yellows and blacks, but maybe one of his babies would get closer (if any hatch :-( ). No telling with both of their marbling genes though.


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## dcg

Having a backup male like that is like having Ronaldo on the reserve bench.  

Sorry to hear about your mega ops! moment.


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## Fenghuang

Thanks, Dcg!


Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg...! I have ONE fry! It managed to survive my sheer idiot clumsiness!

I had scooped a couple of eggs into a glass jar with a little water and duckweed because the male was ignoring them completely. Saved maybe two dozen eggs. I added a baby snail to eat all the bad eggs. Only had three eggs left last night that the snail left alone, and this morning they were all gone. I looked around and didn't see anything so I started dumping the water back and at the bottom I saw one little fry. It was floating around looking like it was dead, but when the water got really shallow it started squirming. It isn't coming to the surface or being very active but fry at this stage just feed off their egg sac anyway.

So yeah, now I have one baby. Fingers crossed it survives everything I put it through. 

Question is, should I remove the male and wait and see if any eggs left in the tank survived? Or should I try to spawn the parents again?


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## Fenghuang

Decided to go with respawning the pair. My one little fry is just kind of laying on the bottom of the floating cup. I can tell its alive but I don't like the odds. Especially since I do not see any other survivors in the tank.


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## MysticSky22301

My marble girl seems to stick to blue colors


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## dcg

Fenghuang said:


> My one little fry is just kind of laying on the bottom of the floating cup. I can tell its alive but I don't like the odds.


Once I walked in your shoes. I managed to take the fry to free swimming stage like that. I don't know if it was wise or just pure luck.


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## Fenghuang

Seems like the blue and red marbles tend to go solid for me. The yellow ones are the ones they seem to stay somewhat stable more.



dcg said:


> Once I walked in your shoes. I managed to take the fry to free swimming stage like that. I don't know if it was wise or just pure luck.


Aww, that is adorable! Your fry is up though. Mine is laying in down. :-(


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## Fenghuang

My one little squishy fry. Zoomed in and filtered for better visibility.


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## Fenghuang

Continuing with my breeding woes, Spawn Attempt #??? failed. Backup Male refused to build a nest and court female, instead choosing to dial the aggression up to 11. Panda's fins are all shredded again. Poor girl. *sigh* C'mon, you two already done this before!!! 

The single fry from the last spawn (pictured above) died in its cup. It had problems staying upright and there wasn't much that could be done for a baby that small and that fragile. :-( Cleanup snail made quick work of the body.

Part of me wants to believe that the reason the male is acting so uncharacteristically mean is that the eggs I left in the tank and thought the male was ignoring did in fact hatch and he was protecting them. But he showed no other signs of fatherly behavior and I see no fry, so the chance of that being true is extremely low. 

Alongside all of this, I did get _a_ spawn to take. Not the one I want, but it's something... I was "experimenting." I have an shallow 10 gallon shoebox filled with rainwater sitting outside to grow out some miscellanouse plant clipping. Dirted bottom with castoff substrate from a tank I broke down. In it are some snails, mosquito larvaes, and all sorts of other tiny critters that find their way to such an environment. The weather was nice for a time, so I wanted to take advantage of it. I never intentionally conditioned them, but I feed my "pet" bettas a random varied diet of live white worms, live mosquito larvae, frozen bloodworms, and betta pellets. I wanted to see if something more "natural" would promote breeding faster (I know, it isn't a perfect controlled experiment, but I was just trying it out).



So, I threw a female and a male at the same time, and I was really liking the way they responsed to one another. Neither my red vt or Backup Male would react the way this male did to a female when I put them in the spawn tank. By nightfall, the male had build a very impressive bubblenest. 

Unfortunately, the weather decided it wasn't going to cooperate. It had been beautiful and then suddenly that night, the temperatures plummeted down to the low 50s. The pair was okay with the sudden drop, I figure the water temperature hold a little more consistent. But the real problem was the afternoon temperatures. Water heated up to high 90s, even in shade. Especially with the plastic lid on, it would probably be enough to cook a fish. So I eventually decided I needed to remove them for the health of the fish. So I brought them back inside and on a whim, I decided to let them stay together in the male's portion of the divided tank. About a day later, there was a bubble nest with eggs in it. It was an underwhelming number of eggs, but still. It's something. They were really nice to one another, in spite of the enclosed space. I cannot spot any damage on either fish. I count 4 (5?) fry this morning. The first hatched last night, so it is still early to tell if there will be any more. It also isn't a specially set up spawn tank so the visibility isn't great. All the other bettas besides the father have been removed from the divided tank into another. Male is tending to his little brood. 

Pair admittedly is not the best because I didn't want to use my best fish.

Sire: Black Orchid (some mutty tail type). I never though I would have bred him. He is kind of an ugly duckling fish. His fins are somewhat stunted, probably from the water here. I mainly selected him because of his black.



Dam: Cellophane PK (or also a mutty tail type maybe). I have gotten her as a "rescue" (pity purchase) and I am honestly shocked. She looked terrible back then. I also thought she would marble. Her fins had dark edging and she had a few speckles, but instead, she lost much of the color and went even more cello. The girl I got alongside her, who was even more colorless in the beginning, is now a dark brown color with a piebald cello face and red fins. I like this girl's sturdy structure and I feel like she has more of a balance to her, which he totally lacks. Verdict is still out on marbling though.


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## MysticSky22301

Check the tub too you may have eggs and fry there ad well!


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## ShadeSlayer

ha, that’s a BEAUTIFUL FISH


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## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> Check the tub too you may have eggs and fry there ad well!


I wish! Doubt they would have made it in the outdoor tub with the hot and cold and the three days' worth of pouring rain this week.



ShadeSlayer said:


> ha, that’s a BEAUTIFUL FISH


Thanks, ShadeSlayer! But which fish? :-D


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## ShadeSlayer

Fenghuang said:


> I wish! Doubt they would have made it in the outdoor tub with the hot and cold and the three days' worth of pouring rain this week.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, ShadeSlayer! But which fish? :-D


The sire you used for your outdoor spawn. LOVE the rainbow of colors he has on a black base.


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## Fenghuang

Aw, I'm sure he will be happy to hear that haha. He sure is a good father though. I am considering trying him with Panda. At this rate, I just want to get one spawn off of her because I love her looks (and temperament) and retire her. She is such a great little fish. 


Boy, these little itty bitt fry are impossible to spot. I only see one or two at a time.


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## ShadeSlayer

I hope they click. She is a super cool fish. I’m hoping to try a summer breeding project and I’m thinking I like your natural idea about the tub.


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## Fenghuang

ShadeSlayer said:


> I hope they click. She is a super cool fish. I’m hoping to try a summer breeding project and I’m thinking I like your natural idea about the tub.


What state do you live in, Shade, if you don't mind me asking? We're in southern Missouri and normally, it would already be hot here but this year, the weather has been so temperamental. It keeps switching back and forth between nice to nasty. I don't trust to try the tub again until it gets into the 90s and stay in a safe range, so I can keep in the shade without worrying about it getting too cold. I have read that if bettas are exposed to natural temperature fluctuations as fry, they would be more resistent to them as adults. But I don't think they mean swinging between downright cold and cooking lol.

I got the idea from this guy on Youtube. He fashioned a large breeding box out of mesh and floated it in a pond. He added a lot of plants and a breeding group of bettas (a male VT and two females IIRC, I know not recommended, but interesting idea). Also, Trilobite on here bred a pair in an outdoor tub too. It was pretty successful, I think.


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## ShadeSlayer

Fenghuang said:


> What state do you live in, Shade, if you don't mind me asking? We're in southern Missouri and normally, it would already be hot here but this year, the weather has been so temperamental. It keeps switching back and forth between nice to nasty. I don't trust to try the tub again until it gets into the 90s and stay in a safe range, so I can keep in the shade without worrying about it getting too cold. I have read that if bettas are exposed to natural temperature fluctuations as fry, they would be more resistent to them as adults. But I don't think they mean swinging between downright cold and cooking lol.
> 
> I got the idea from this guy on Youtube. He fashioned a large breeding box out of mesh and floated it in a pond. He added a lot of plants and a breeding group of bettas (a male VT and two females IIRC, I know not recommended, but interesting idea). Also, Trilobite on here bred a pair in an outdoor tub too. It was pretty successful, I think.



I live in Washington, but summers are pretty stable and remain in the high 80s where I’m at.


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## Fenghuang

If it is stable, it should be good!

Here's a better picture of the black orchid boy. (Yes, I have him in to spawn again now that he successfully seen his other babies to free-swimming stage.) 

I suppose he doesn't look _too_ terrible in full flare. That anal fin is outrageous. But Panda has (had) a beautiful one, so all is not necessarily lost. She has also decided she was going to go all black (aside from her red wash).


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## Fenghuang

I saw 10 black orchid x cellophane fry tonight. They were all spread out and took a while for me to find they. They stay pretty close to the surface among the duckweed, which makes counting tremendously difficult. I am currently feeding a little bit of live banana worms 2-3 times a day to supplement the infusoria they can scavenge off the plants and moss.

For how good the black orchid male was for me with the cello, a successful spawn out of Panda still remains elusive.


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## ShadeSlayer

Glad things seem to be okay for the moment.


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## Fenghuang

Black orchid x cello fry are 11 days old now. I found, caught, and moved a total of 12 fry to another tank so it'll be easier to keep track of them. They have probably doubled or tripled in size since hatch. Some are slightly bigger than others, but not too much is going on with them. 

On another note, after roughly 3 days with lots of storming that should've convinced even the most stubborn bettas it's spawning time, Backup Male (he really doesn't have a name, so this is closest to one he has) built a miniscule little nest and finally cozied up to Panda to spawn. My red VT was still unwilling to spawn, despite how smitten he was when I tried the cello female with him (he seems to hate Panda, so I think I will have to give up on them breeding).

Backup Male's nest in which I think there might be more eggs than bubbles.



He has such a hilarious face.







A black orchid x cello fry, I hadn't figured out how to take good photos of them with my phone camera.


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## Fenghuang

Slowly gathering them up...



That's better.



Well. It's a working progress. :lol:


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## Fenghuang

Whelp. He ate nearly all the eggs in the middle of the night. 

I found four little eggs floating in the duckweed and scooped them into a plastic measuring spoon that floats. It is shallow so if any fry hatch, it will be easier for them to stay up. Poor babies. 

Maybe I should name him Cronus (Kronos) because he ate his kids. *sigh*

I don't know why this keeps happening. :-(


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## MysticSky22301

If you breed him again remove him after the eggs get picked up, depending he might b a chronic egg eater or just too young to be fully sure of what to do with the eggs


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## Fenghuang

I worry it is also a fertility problem. I saved maybe a few dozen eggs last time to artifically hatch when I dropped the lid into the tank and destroyed the nest and only one fry hatched and it was too weak to survive more than a day. This time I only saved four. Three hatched, but one was too weak and died after a day too. But we'll see, if I spawn that again.

Today, one of the two fry that hatched and survived so far. Daddy is swimming below, expecting a little nibble or morsel of food from me.


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## Fenghuang

Here are some better pictures of the sire and dam.

Backup Male is growing into his fins.



Panda is wearing her battle scars still. Her fins hadn't fully grown back yet, but believe me, I think she has the *nicer* fins of the pair.


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## Fenghuang

Black orchid x cello fry update: They are 16 days old now, are growing steadily, and as far as I can tell, healthy. It is still very difficult to keep track of them all, but I'll assume the number is still around the same as I hadn't seen any dead bodies. I am finally seeing pectoral fins and the hint of dorsal fins on the larger fry, but there are some obvious runts lagging behind. Still no real color, but I wouldn't expect much so soon from black and cello. 

Here are examples of the babies atm:





Also guess where I found this scrappy fry?



In the 20L where they were born! I moved all of his siblings a week ago. He got left behind with no food (that I offered) and was sharing the tank with two adults, but he looks no worse for wear. In fact, he (or she) might be as big as if not the biggest of the fry. I finally scooped him out now to join his siblings. I tried to take a picture of him cupped up against the glass before he was released but he slipped out and swam away from me. :roll:


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## Fenghuang

One of the two Backup Male x Panda fry perished. Not sure why. It seemed to be doing okay this morning, but now it's gone. The baby snails I have in the tupperware with them for cleanup must have eaten the body.


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## Fenghuang

And the other one died too. The only thing I can think of is that maybe I added water too soon. The bottom of the container was getting dirty, so I sucked some water out and added some. I thought it would be okay because I was just taking a pipette and adding water from the tank (same water babies are in) and adding a droplets. But Panda got eggy and released her eggs in her tank again, so she is probably ready to breed again soon. 

Black orchid x cello fry are great. I was able to count and found that 10 babies are accounted for. The other two might just be hiding too, so die-off is little or none. I am trying to see if they'll take decaps, but they seem to turn their noses up at all non-living foods. They're all basically still this color.


----------



## Fenghuang

At this point, the title of this thread should just be changed to "Black Orchid RT x Cellophane DeT" because that is all I have so far, that's the only spawn I have.

Panda and Backup Male have basically moved in together. They didn't breed the last time, but I hadn't move them, so they're just cohabiting the spawn tank and living pretty peaceful now. I will separate them eventually, but for now, I have some issues with the guppy fry growout and the guppy/cory community tank, and I worry I may have unintentionally contaminated the two divided betta tanks (lost two pet bettas to similar unexplained symptons within two days of one another...although the first took two weeks to succumb and the second had symptons pop up one night and was dead the next morning) so staying put and not moving anyone around might be the plan of action. 

Black orchid x cello fry are just a few days shy of a month old now. They are eating decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, live banana worms, and I'm also trying various other crushed up adult and fry foods, which the larger fry seem to be taking to. 

They look like this, with size varying a little among some individuals. There is one runty fry that is especially oversized compared to his siblings that looks to have some buoyancy problems, but it doesn't seem to give it too much trouble. 

Yes, the tank bottom looks super grimy, but I do vaccum regularly. It actually looks like that after one feeding. Seems like the worms clump to the decaps. The fry don't really mind it though.



Not too much color yet. But some fry have a few speckles of a pearly shiny white sheen on them.







This little guy (or gal) is going to need to be separated soon. It's the biggest fry and he is already starting to flare, chase, nip, and pick on his smaller siblings. I noticed a smaller fry was missing a portion of its tail and another had something that looked like a scratch on its face a few days ago (was worried that whatever the guppy fry has spreaded to them for a bit), so I suspect he is the culprit.


----------



## Fenghuang

Finally showing some color...


----------



## Fenghuang

Man, the fry had a growth spurt this week. All the smaller ones have caught up and are roughly the same size as the larger ones. Fins are growing nicely (ventrals too). They're getting more color on them too, although it's still hard to distinguish what they are really going to be. And the big thing they've gained is attitude! They're starting to try to chase and intimidate one another. Some sparring going on as well, but thankfully not very violent yet. I think it's almost time for them to be separated. I suppose they'll grow faster if I did.

This guy was the largest one, but now he is probably the second or the third largest.



The largest fry. He or she kind of came out of nowhere.



He doesn't have too much aggression though. Not compared to some of the others.



A "pile" of fry.



Some dominance games.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sooo. Cute.


----------



## Fenghuang

I jarred my three largest. Not a huge feat with only seven total, but it's a milestone nonetheless in my head.

This fry did something interesting. At first they were all uniform-looking (kind of a dirty red cambo pattern), but then about 2 days ago, s/he decided to go against the grain. 

2 days ago:


1 day ago:


Today:


----------



## trilobite

Cute! These guys are looking really good :-D 
Love that little cello guy, he looks very guilty about changing his colour


----------



## Fenghuang

Thanks, Trilo. Cello guy's my favorite. :-D I'm still hoping he's going to return to black but the last of the darkness on his fins disappeared too. But oh well... You don't always get what you want. 


The pros of having a tiny spawn is that you can dedicate a lot of personal attention to each baby. Each of the "jarred" babies has a 2.5 gallon filtered and heated tank to itself. The 4 still left in the tank are starting to squabble more and I actually have individual tanks for them too. I'll have to get up better pictures soon, but I have been sick so hadn't really done much except the daily fish chores.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Get better soon! If I could I'd send some of my version of split pea soup with beef tips ( it's completely loaded down with veggies too) to you


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> Get better soon! If I could I'd send some of my version of split pea soup with beef tips ( it's completely loaded down with veggies too) to you


Aw, that sounds delicious! Thanks for the thought.  My grandma makes this really great broth with rib tips, normally she just adds tomatoes, carrots, and shiitake mushrooms. Occasionally, she got daikon radish to go in it... Oh man, that makes me hungry with thinking about it. It's hard to find the ingredients to cook the stuff I'm used to eating at home where I live now. I grew up in the Northeast, and there are tons if Asian markets. Now I'm in a tiny tiny landlocked southern town so I can forget it lol. Lamb is considered adventurous food here (which is weird to me considering this is farming country). But I made myself a nice soup with some chicken wings we had, so not all was lost! I should probably shut up about food now...

Ohh, I could call the cello boy or girl Daikon. It reminds me of the vegetable. :lol:


----------



## MysticSky22301

If you want really good chicken soup boil leg quarters for an hour with garlic onion carrots green onions celery sautéed mushrooms and whatever spices you like, then pull the chicken out ( should be almost falling apart) and add noodles or dumplings and let them cook while the chicken cools. After its cool enough pull off the bone and Add back to your soup. 

I love lamb, heart, squirrel, rabbit, squab, snake... I can go on and on and I get looked at funny for it, making noodles with dove or quail omg YUM! My grandparents raised me and their parents brought them up great depression style so I was taught many things even my parents don't understand. You don't waste food and no one goes hungry stretch everything you have. And honestly I love being able to pull a meal out of thin air ( or my back yard). So nothing is really off the wall when it comes to food, even some insect's. Don't worry about the judgment just enjoy your food!


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> If you want really good chicken soup boil leg quarters for an hour with garlic onion carrots green onions celery sautéed mushrooms and whatever spices you like, then pull the chicken out ( should be almost falling apart) and add noodles or dumplings and let them cook while the chicken cools. After its cool enough pull off the bone and Add back to your soup.
> 
> I love lamb, heart, squirrel, rabbit, squab, snake... I can go on and on and I get looked at funny for it, making noodles with dove or quail omg YUM! My grandparents raised me and their parents brought them up great depression style so I was taught many things even my parents don't understand. You don't waste food and no one goes hungry stretch everything you have. And honestly I love being able to pull a meal out of thin air ( or my back yard). So nothing is really off the wall when it comes to food, even some insect's. Don't worry about the judgment just enjoy your food!


I like to make chicken soup with a whole chicken cooked until the meat falls off the bone myself. But otherwise, yes, just like that! I love it! :-D

My grandma lived with us and did most of the cooking, so I was raised to be pretty open-minded about trying anything too. She grew up in the China and they were really poor when she was young, so they grew a lot of their own food and weren't squeamish about butchering their own meat. This one time, my grandpa trapped a wild hare in our wood pile (we were renovating at the time) and my grandpa thought my brother and I could keep it as a pet. My grandma thought it was a great idea. She got really excited and was like we could fatten it up for New Year's... Luckily for the rabbit, my brother and I decided to let it go that day lol.


----------



## Fenghuang

The seven are big enough to eat live white worms now (of course, that isn't their whole diet ;-) )! I got some pictures of all the fry, which, believe it or not, is an ordeal all on its own. They just do not hold this one bit. It took a a couple of 50 or so discarded shots and about an hour and a half of uncomfortable crouching position to just get these *really not great quality* photos. 

This is Pumpkin, initially named for her orange tinted fins at first glance. Although, upon closer inspection under proper lighting, I discovered that she isn't actually quite orange but more of a mustard yellow color. This is the largest of my fry. She likes to surf on the filter current for some weird reason.







This guy is probably tied in second with Daikon in turns of size, but he is pretty easy going so I'm not separating him just yet. This picture is clear enough that you can see the fin rays are currently longer than the webbing. 



I will refer to this one as Grey for now, even though once again, he isn't exactly that color.







Daikon... He tries so hard but has such an sad flare. Hopefully it will look more graceful once his fins grow in. :lol: Yeah, his tank is pretty empty right now. I was going to add more plants so it'll be lush like Pumpkin and Grey's, but the dog had other ideas. Pupper jumped into and splash around in the plant growout bin I had in the yard (this is conjecture since I wasn't there to witness it) and I did not see it until it was too late. He managed to completely empty out all the water, dig out almost all of the substrate, and I guess, he also dragged off all the sizeable live plants in there. I found dried out duckweed on the ground but have no clue what happened to the rest. We know he has a horrible habit of dragging off/digging up/eating any potted or garden plants that are not well established, but the water plants were a first for him.







Redfin, 'cuz...red fins. Yeah, I am on a roll with the original names with this bunch! I think every fry in this spawn except Daikon has some degree of red wash going on but Redfin has the most prominent. He is a brat. They get this from their dad, I think. Trying to get pictures of this guy was almost impossible.



Also featured with Redfin is this little guy. He was the smallest but have now surpassed one of the other fry in growth. He is still pretty tiny but he is brat #2. He chases all the other fry still in the 10 gallon.



His coloring is interesting though. I wonder if he will go the same route as Daikon because he has those stripes like Daikon did before.



And last but not least, the runt at the moment. It's pretry close honestly. He will probably look just like Redfin and develop the same way. (All fry sexes are not really set in stone except Daikon and Pumpkin's since it's pretty obvious with them btw.)


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Sorry about the plants. That’s a big bummer. I really love the edges of Pumpkin’s fins. Are you going to keep her/any of the fry in this batch?


----------



## Fenghuang

It's okay, Slayer. Hornswort and anarcharis grows so quickly it's ridiculous. 

I am opening to rehoming to good homes, but I do have space for all seven and also there's a local pet store who expressed interest in them. I will ideally only keep two or three.


----------



## ShadeSlayer

Gottcha. Do you have any in mind you think you’d like to keep?


----------



## Fenghuang

No, I'm not decided. They are now two months and a week. From what I have read in other people's journals, they are probably growing at a slower rate than how they could be. But that's to be expected since I didn't do nearly as many water changes as some people when they were younger (I have felt like the few times I added/changed the water with young fry, they would die despite there being nothing visibly wrong with them). They look short-finned now but I expect their fins to keep growing. I don't know either parent's heritage, but the male seems to have finally come into an HM and female might have some plakat but I don't think she is completely. And additionally, the male took forever to grow his fins to their size now.

I supposed I am attached to Daikon because I love cellos and I just lost my cello DT, Nimbus, to this stupid illness that is plaguing my guppy/cory community tank and my divided betta tanks (don't worry, the betta fry has been kept contained with no cross-contamination since before patient zero fell ill). Plus he has a real personality. Otherwise, no clear definite keepers.


----------



## Fenghuang

Oh, look, I did find some pictures of the male when we first got him over a year and a half ago. We almost didn't get him. My gf actually was at Petsmart for some reason and she was taking pictures of bettas to show me (I love window-shopping lol). She found a red marble VT and black butterfly DeT and knew I would have wanted those two, so she got them. She was calling me the parking lot after she paid for those two and was texting me the pictures and said she felt bad for the one pictured below. So I ended up telling her to just go back inside and get him too. 

Hard to believe that's the same fish, huh?


----------



## MysticSky22301

He was still pretty o.o


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> He was still pretty o.o


Thanks, Mystic. I guess it's pretty striking how much he has grown since then. He is double in size at least. His fins are long and his color is very dark. 


You seem to like black bettas, Mystic. I bet you would have liked the pair I had intended to breed about a full year ago before unforeseen circumstances struck and I took a break. Black is one of my favorite colors for bettas too, as you can see. ;-)


----------



## MysticSky22301

I Do love black bettas but found many others I like as well certain marbles are just stunning like my marble dragon ^^ I also adore most EE and opaque white


----------



## Fenghuang

So, Redfin did this.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Lol! My babies ( both of them) are growing fins ^^ red turned marble


----------



## Fenghuang

BAM!—black finally kicked in. This was the largest red finned fry in the main tank.



It is probably time to start separating them... They're sparring and nipping at each other a lot more now.


----------



## MysticSky22301

They are getting rather cute ^^


----------



## ShadeSlayer

That baby is sooo cute!! Love the coloring that’s starting to show.


----------



## trilobite

I love him! Hes going to be very handsome when grown up. Fingers crossed he stays black for you!


----------



## Fenghuang

Thanks, you guys! 


Got some new photos of all the babies. The pictures are even blurry than usual—I know, hard to believe that's even possible, right?—because I didn't have a lot of time this morning. They have really grown a startling amount. 

I added way more plants to the tanks and cleaned all the yucky gunk (snails + any powdery fry food = constant battle for me) after the fact and it looked pretty nice but I forgot to snap a pic.

First up is Daikon without his famously awful angles. :roll: His fins seem to be getting longer. Or maybe I'm imagining things.







Pumpkin is still orange. I don't know why or where the orange comes in but she's holding onto it. There's almost some purple-ish hue in there too.







Grey might be turning black too. I also want to say she might be a girl.







Sorry these two fish's pictures are especially bad (and sorry for always complaining about bad pictures and still giving more bad pictures!). I got these Aquarius tanks cheap when I first moved into a dorm, but quickly upgraded to a standard glass 10 when I realized no one cared if I skirted the rules on 3 gallon max for a fish tank. Using them again after two years made me realize how much I hated the dumb design. The LED light is way too dim too matter what the setting, the thick black plastic hood makes the tank so dark, and the cheap plastic and irregular pentagonal (I think there are 5 sides but honestly can't remember without them in front of me) shape suuuucks for placing, arranging, and visibility. Maybe the tanks would work on a kitchen counter or somewhere with natural light but not in a windowless basement room. Someday, I have a place where I can put my tanks in a nice lit space again. (Sorry, I'll end rant now! >< )

Redfin needs a new name for sure now. :lol: He looks a lot like Daikon but his fins are still dark (that might change) and his body is way bulkier. He's just a solid fish.







Some more of the black one I previewed earlier.







Extra black picture included because I can, heh. I don't know what to classify this black as yet... It isn't really black orchid, but not really the "thick" intense black like a melano.



And the two smaller, not by much anymore, ones who WILLNOTSTOPMOVING. Lol. They are different though.





Compared to Redfin and the largest to show minute differences....

This one is kind of difficult to tell but the one in the foreground is "the" black fry. The one in the back looks similar but this has red wash(?) on fins. I don't know if it only makes sense to me or not. Maybe I should assign them numbers, but seems a little overkill with just seven.


----------



## Fenghuang

Whoopsies, double posted by accident!


----------



## MysticSky22301

Awww would you like to see Oscar? My baby from Petco? He just had red fins when I got him and Gem


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> Awww would you like to see Oscar? My baby from Petco? He just had red fins when I got him and Gem


Sure, I would love to see Oscar!


----------



## MysticSky22301

He's got stress stripes because I had to cup him twice -_- he's about 3 months old and is still bigger than my EE male


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> He's got stress stripes because I had to cup him twice -_- he's about 3 months old and is still bigger than my EE male


Man, my betta babies are approaching 3 months and they're not anywhere as big as Oscar. He's a pretty boy. And those fins! They're so long for a fish so young.


----------



## MysticSky22301

I know right? Gem is a beautiful dark blue with a slight red wash I might breed them at some point ^^ 

What kind of tail are your babies getting? Are you looking for long hm or something else?


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> I know right? Gem is a beautiful dark blue with a slight red wash I might breed them at some point ^^
> 
> What kind of tail are your babies getting? Are you looking for long hm or something else?


Do you have any flaring pictures of him?

This is probably bad of me but I still am not entirely sure what tail type Mom Betta is. I guess a PT x DeT cross since the length of her fins are in between what you'll expect from a short finned and a long finned female and her other physical traits are somewhat of a mix. When I got her, I didn't intend for her to be breeding stock so it never occurred to me to be picky. So I am expecting long finned fry, or "in-betweener" fry, at least. They probably wouldn't have as high of ray count or extension as their dad because of mom's lesser ones also.


----------



## MysticSky22301

No I don't he's in the guppy fry tank I knew it would temper his aggression, I've never seen him actually flare o.o

I might get him to when I move and get the divided tanks set up. Imagine planted tanks with moss wall dividers, about 3g of room each ^^ Betta paradise and lots of pretty fishies for us to look at ( 9males to be exact- and 10+ females when I get my new trio) the girls are all going in a 20 long ( currently 8 in a 10g tank) I'm sorry I'm all kinds of excited 😆


----------



## BlueInkFish

Wow! It's been awhile(?) lovely fish as always Feng! Looks like everyone is doing great! ^_^


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> No I don't he's in the guppy fry tank I knew it would temper his aggression, I've never seen him actually flare o.o
> 
> I might get him to when I move and get the divided tanks set up. Imagine planted tanks with moss wall dividers, about 3g of room each ^^ Betta paradise and lots of pretty fishies for us to look at ( 9males to be exact- and 10+ females when I get my new trio) the girls are all going in a 20 long ( currently 8 in a 10g tank) I'm sorry I'm all kinds of excited 😆


I have something like that. Except moss wall divideds. I'm super bad about killing all the supposedly "easy" plants. *roll: 



BlueInkFish said:


> Wow! It's been awhile(?) lovely fish as always Feng! Looks like everyone is doing great! ^_^


Hey, Blue, long time no see/talk! And thank you. How are you and your fish doing?



So, I won't see "my babies"... Gf makes fun of me for being so protective and obsessed with them I am.... :lol: For 2 weeks. Gf is taking care of them with very exact instructions. I have to fly back north. AndImightbegoingabroad. I'm excited but also very stressed about the whole thing. It has been years since I gone outside of the year (and it'll be great journal fodder because my journal is super boring rn lol). But it seems like too much to do and too many miles to travel in a very short amount of time. There's a lot of time constraints and uncertainty. Also they're finally starting to color up and grow fins and it sucks to leave them at a time when they are changing every single day.


----------



## BlueInkFish

I'm doing fine, schools coming back up, but I've been getting SUPER lazy with water changes for my goldfish tank because of this horrible heat. So unfortunately one of my goldfish is starting to develop dropsy :-( Ugh! I hate myself for doing this! My Betta is fine, he's with 2 Endlers(?) I'm planning to plant his tank very soon though! It's VERY vague.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Goldfish can be fastedor a long time, do your water changes! If you're like me you will cry your eyes if you accidentally kill them  do you have a qt tank? ( I need to designate a 20g hard sided tote as qt for my big goldies) I skimp a little on refilling my tanks so I guess can't lecture too much


----------



## Fenghuang

BlueInkFish said:


> I'm doing fine, schools coming back up, but I've been getting SUPER lazy with water changes for my goldfish tank because of this horrible heat. So unfortunately one of my goldfish is starting to develop dropsy :-( Ugh! I hate myself for doing this! My Betta is fine, he's with 2 Endlers(?) I'm planning to plant his tank very soon though! It's VERY vague.


Glad you're doing fine. Sorry about your goldie though! I definitely know how it is, I get so lazy sometimes too. But a lot of it is me stressing myself out and ending up in a rut. :/ I think best you can is get him in a methylene blue bath and some kanaplex and keep his water extremely clean and see if he bounces back. I really hope he does!


----------



## BlueInkFish

Fenghuang said:


> Glad you're doing fine. Sorry about your goldie though! I definitely know how it is, I get so lazy sometimes too. But a lot of it is me stressing myself out and ending up in a rut. :/ I think best you can is get him in a methylene blue bath and some kanaplex and keep his water extremely clean and see if he bounces back. I really hope he does!


I totally understand how you feel! I get stressed all the time with balancing out errands, meetings, and some free time for the fish. :crying:

Any recommendations where to purchase Methylene Blue online? Or do you think a chain store would have something like that? Same goes for Kanaplex.

Thanks so much Feng!


----------



## Fenghuang

BlueInkFish said:


> I totally understand how you feel! I get stressed all the time with balancing out errands, meetings, and some free time for the fish. :crying:
> 
> Any recommendations where to purchase Methylene Blue online? Or do you think a chain store would have something like that? Same goes for Kanaplex.
> 
> Thanks so much Feng!


Yea, it can be horribly difficult when you have a full schedule. But just gotta breathe. And try to relax and give yourself a break sometimes because burn out sucks.

Amazon. I think it has the best deal on Methylene Blue online. I got a 2 pack for roughly how much I paid for one at another vendor. Kanaplex, I get through Foster&Smith (sp.?), Ebay, or Aquabid (there's a vendor that sells kanamycin in different amounts.


----------



## Fenghuang

Gf, the great fishy caretaker, sent me pictures! So here's an update for the black fry for now. He looks so much like his father. :-D Still the only black one.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Wow!


----------



## Fenghuang

Sad news, Daikon pssed away suddenly.  Gf sent me pictures and nothing looked visibly wrong with him.


All the rest of the bettas are doing good. Here's the ones in the main tank this evening. I'll ask for better ones of the other two tomorrow, but pretty tired from traveling tonight to do much. She says they still seem to be getting along, but the black one is as big as the two single ones, whereas the rest are all smaller. Blackie has hit a growth spurt and looks real lanky now.


----------



## BlueInkFish

I'm sorry Feng. :-(

S.I.P. Daikon.


----------



## Fenghuang

BlueInkFish said:


> I'm sorry Feng. :-(
> 
> S.I.P. Daikon.


Thanks Blue. —hug—

The six babies are still doing well. Sent gf to the LFS today to find some new food options for them since they are getting bigger and probably will be needing more diverse and nutritious foods. 

Mama cello betta passed away also. I had a feeling she contracted whatever was killing off the other bettas, so it wasn't too unexpected. She looked "out of sorts." That is the only way I can describe it, because it seems to me that the very earliest sign is a subtle change in behavior. It's not even a lack of appetite, just like a lack of "luster?" If that makes sense. Like they're not laying on the substrate looking totally lethargic or sickly or clamped, but just not as spirited as before. I guess one would only noticed if they have been around the fish for a while and have observed the fish and its personality and behaviors and look what to look for. 

Daddy betta is still going strong. Officially oldest fish we have now with the passing of Panda seven days ago (it seems like what took her was old age and possibly a tumor?). We've had him since March 31, 2015.


----------



## Fenghuang

It was shortly after I left that the cello mama died, for clarification, not just today or something. Don't believe Daikon's death is connected to hers though, since like I said before, I kept the babies completely separate.


----------



## Fenghuang

Blackie did a thing....



:shock:

Yep, those pesky marble genes. :lol:



I know you can't see it too well, but look, a big boy flare!



He might be the biggest of the fry in the communal tank. Gf reports that they are still getting along pretty good.







And the other two... Here is Pumpkin, she is more colored up now.



The other is still pretty...colorless? It might darken from what I have observed.


----------



## MysticSky22301

Pumpkin is pretty! Blacky what in the WORLD!


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> Pumpkin is pretty! Blacky what in the WORLD!


He is pulling a reverse of another fish I had that went from being white and blue black to totally black. :lol:

Tonight:



(Photo credits to the gf, in case it wasn't clear)


----------



## MysticSky22301

Lol marble genes! I have a boy that is a marble butterfly dragon, he started out green and blue with cello fins now how fins are black and red with the green band. Aside from my black and orange butterfly he has to be my favorite, and so very sociable he actually likes other fish! I think he's slowly getting darker too ^^ ( I'll have a meet the Betta bunch thread in a couple weeks)


----------



## Fenghuang

Black is transitioning back to black, I suppose. But he had been stuck in this half black phase recently. Which prompted the gf to ask if Panda really never had any fry (no, she never did) because that was exactly what she was like when she was younger.

It is sort of funny that this spawn though. They really do resemble her a lot, even though they shared no genetics with her, and even more so because she was the original female I had intended to breed and started spawn log for (hence the technically wrong title). 

This spawn gave me some hints as to what to expect from crossing long finned and short finned fish. I had suspected their mother was a cello HMxHMPK geno, which should have yield long fins in theory, but in practice, it seems like the spawn threw a mix. Blackie has pretty conventional plakat proportions (fins maybe a little longer than average), but some of his siblings are crossing longer fins and also have longer bodies.



















Poor Pumpkin and the other fry in the single tanks were left out of the photo shoot again. According to my gf, they are "not as interesting." :roll: I personally love Pumpkin's color.


----------



## MysticSky22301

They are really cool little fish ^^


----------



## Fenghuang

MysticSky22301 said:


> They are really cool little fish ^^


Thank you very much, Mystic. ^^


----------



## Fenghuang

They're growing up so fast now....

Not all the fry, just the three that are with me now. Gf came down last night.


----------



## Mecal

That half and half fish is interesting, not sure ive seen separated color quite like that.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Beautiful!


----------



## Fenghuang

Future plans for these babies while I lay awake thinking about things... :lol:

As you can probably guess from all my focus on Blackie, he is likely my pick for continuing with this line (unless a sib pulls an ugly duckling). I would've liked his more long finned brother, but his ray count looks to be pretty hideous and he doesn't really have the form. I am going classic veiltail first with a black/ marble base. Which had been my plan all along and would have been a heck of a lot easier and straightforward if Azazel x Panda had worked out. I feel like these unrelated fry turning out to be so similar to Panda in coloration/pattern is like a second chance in a sense. I will need to find a suitable VT female, nothing that looks like a cross since there would be no telling what I would end up with then. 

I supposed I could try Artemisia seeing as she is of roughly (from what I can tell) the same age and size. I also think her form is not too bad.



But I am not sure about her, so not set in stone yet. I want to pick the "perfect" female and not just use Artemisia because she is a fish I have. I am in no rush to kick off another spawn right away anyway. Also, I am not sure what would happen mixing the colors.


----------



## BlueInkFish

Whatever you pick, I'm all in!  Did I mention how jealous I am of this spawn? Seriously, I want to start another spawn again, and every time I read this it's like you're just about to set me off to get a breeding pair!


----------



## trilobite

You got some beautiful results! I especially love the little black guy with the red in his dorsal and the little pk is cute too! Looking forward to seeing how the next generation turns out :-D


----------



## Fenghuang

Thanks! :-D



BlueInkFish said:


> Whatever you pick, I'm all in!  Did I mention how jealous I am of this spawn? Seriously, I want to start another spawn again, and every time I read this it's like you're just about to set me off to get a breeding pair!


Well, I saw your one baby all grown up, so I would wholeheartedly support the decision. xD

But I mean, we all gotta juggle RL and out fish (it's funny because my fish are kinda my life :lol. So realistically, don't add too much to your plate if it's already full.



trilobite said:


> You got some beautiful results! I especially love the little black guy with the red in his dorsal and the little pk is cute too! Looking forward to seeing how the next generation turns out :-D


Thank you.  I do have a question though... Based on your experience, will he (the little red dorsal male) grow into a more, I guess, "symmetrical" caudal?


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## trilobite

His caudal will most likely lengthen to vt-delta  

Heres a little boy from aaaages ago who looks kinda like him formwise


He turned into this, I never got a pic of him fully matured but you can kinda see the direction he was heading in


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## BlueInkFish

OOOO. Ahhhhh. I really like him!


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