# Conformation questions



## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

If one were breeding veiltails for show (yes, variations class, I know) what do you look for, conformation wise?

Here are 3 Veils up on Aquabid. If you were judging a class _based on conformation only_ in what order would you place them and why?
What is each fish's best and worst feature?

I really appreciate everyone who takes the time to do this. A lot of us are visual people, and the little computer generated image doesn't translate well for me. It would be really helpful for me (and I'm sure others) to look at a picture of a fish and see on that individual what is bad and good.

And I know that the colors are not show worthy on all 3 of these. I just want to learn about conformation.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Darth posted something about VT's not long ago i think. Posted some great pics too. Hope he chimes in.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Fish #2 would be my first pick. Fish #1 would be my last pick. #1 has crazy ray branching.
#2 has the best body...I think. His dorsal should reach further back towards his caudal. Top to bottom he's a little short on top. He has split ventrals too.

Fish #3 has a short body. He seems to be more uneven top to bottom. 
All three have short first rays on the dorsal.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

The last fish is more like it, no separation in the fins, remember old standard is NOT European standard, no separation between fins these are known as Satellites or dafodils.
Things may have changed just like most things have over the years since I was a member of the IBC but back in the old days the fish were almost all like the HM standard except they had veil tails.
The reason I picked the last fish was because his fins were more together than the first 2.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

They are working up a standard in the IBC.. it will NOT be like Joeps. That is too angular. I was told if you get an old betta book.. that is the form they are after. Not my area of *expertise* but would hazard a guess the first male is close to that viel form. The other two are more rounded in their tails.. and not enough length in then either.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

No that's not what they did back then S, like I said it was more like the last one because they didn't want a lot of spacing again things may have changed.
But even though it has a more rounded tail there are not as much of a gap between fins.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Here is what I remember.


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

This male;








is what I think of when I think of a classic veil tail.

I used to have a really old betta book that showed pictures of bettas with tail types of the time, Spoon, Spade, Teardrop, Veil, Round.
I wish I still had it but it got lost in a cross country move. I've never found another copy - which is not helped by the fact I can't remember the exact title, only that is was something really imaginative, like "A Guide To Siamese Fighting Fish"


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

This used to be the Standard. Not any of the European separated things, I remember Jim Sonnier and Walt Maurus talking about how they didn't care for the way bettas were judged overseas.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Darth said:


> No that's not what they did back then S, like I said it was more like the last one because they didn't want a lot of spacing again things may have changed.
> But even though it has a more rounded tail there are not as much of a gap between fins.


 
And I had conversations at convention with the J board about the standard being developed. They want a veil shape and some length. Those first two fish are messed up deltas.. or deltas x VT. NOT what they are wanting the fish to look like. Pics in the older books show that type tail. NOT these funky hybrid ones.


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

Basement Bettas, could you tell me more about the standard being developed? I'd really like to learn.
Would any of these fish (random pictures pulled off google pics) come close to the standard?

And if anyone would be so kind as to pick apart one, telling it's exact strengths and weaknesses, I'd appreciate it..


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

The first one is, in my opinion how I like vts to look, all the fins match and look like theyre from the same fish ...but I dont know anything about vt standards just personal preference


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

I did not get any details.. but from what I have seen in the older books.. my gut reaction is the second and last ones. They said the tail up and over like a veil. Top one may be young.. but his tail seems to go out rather than arch down.

That red would be a good start on a nice red line of VT's. Pretty good color. If people are serious about the VT.. this is probably going to be THE time to put your time and money where the mouth is so to speak. If the J board develops a standard.. and no one enters fish... probably going to be a cold day before they will ever do it again. You will hear they took the time and no one was interested enough to breed AND show. You have to commit to showing to get these fish established again. Color mish mashes will not cut it either. Need to breed the standard colors to the quality of the HM's if possible. Good reds and blues. Nice patterns on the marbles. Fairly clean pastels.. you get the idea.


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