# Need some advice on cycling



## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Hello all,

I am sure the number of threads involving people asking for help regarding cycling must be high on this site, and so I apologize if this has been beaten to death. I suppose I would just like someone to hold my hand and let me know I am doing things correctly (or incorrectly!). :-D

I have been running my Aqueon Evolve 8 tank for a few weeks now with no fish in there. It is heated to 80 degrees and filtered. I also have live plants, all of which I just replaced yesterday (as per my thread asking about LED lights and the sickly look most of the old plants had developed). I have done some reading here on the planted tank cycling method, and also got some good advice from Olympia. I am trying to process it all - it mostly makes sense to me, but as a beginner I just want to be sure I am doing things right before my imported fish arrives! 

Since I am using the planted tank method, I have not been adding any food or other ammonia sources, assuming that the beneficial bacteria will grow slowly. Is this incorrect? Because the one thing that boggles my mind is where this bacteria will come from if there isn't anything but plants and driftwood in there. I have done 25% water changes every week though I am not even sure this has been necessary. Admittedly I have not been testing my water very much, though I do have the API master test kit. I guess I figured it's not really necessary because nothing is really "going on" in there. 

This all seemed okay to me until I realized A: I might be completely wrong in my assumptions and B: My fish that I've spent a lot of $ on and waited so long for will be here next week, and I can't be sure he is being introduced to an optimum tank!

If anyone could let me know your thoughts I'd sure appreciate it. I have never done this before (is that obvious?) and would just like some advice specific to my tank to make me feel better. Thanks all!!


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## mikylarsen (Nov 26, 2012)

My understanding is you, or rather the tank, would need some sort of ammonia source to kick start the nitrogen cycle.

I cycled two 29G planted tanks with pure ammonia, 0.5ml / 10g / day. I seeded with bio-media from a cycled tank. Process took 7 to 10 days to get 0 ammonia and nitrIte and some nitrAte [20-40pm] readings. Then I performed a 50% PWC to reduce NitrAte level 24 hours prior to getting the fish(es).


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Very interesting. See, I thought you don't need to add pure ammonia to a tank that has living plants in it based on some of the things I have read (because in the guides there seem to be the option for a fishless cycle using pure ammonia, and then a separate option for planted tanks). Also, I don't have a cycled tank to seed from, that sure would make things easier


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## babystarz (Aug 3, 2012)

Planted tanks will have a silent cycle  You can put a fish in for the ammonia source right away (or whenever your fish arrives), and the plants will buffer the effects of the cycle. There isn't really any need to worry about it, if you're doing appropriate water changes the cycle will inevitably happen on its own.


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

WHEW, okay thanks babystarz! That's what I have been assuming all along, but you know what they say about that  I guess I just needed someone more experienced to tell me it was right.


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## Trackpadtactics (Dec 12, 2012)

strangelove said:


> WHEW, okay thanks babystarz! That's what I have been assuming all along, but you know what they say about that  I guess I just needed someone more experienced to tell me it was right.


Babystarz as it right. Allow it can take weeks to months for it to start. Without a ammonia source ( aka fish) it will take very long to it to start. Also, remove carbon from the filter as this filters out chemicals and kills what the plants need to feed from. I would do a reading every other day or two days depending on the levels. Once ammonia hits .25 or higher do a 20 to 30 change and keep an eye on it. Eventually you will read 0 on ammonia and nitrite you are good.


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## Leopardfire (Sep 23, 2012)

Try putting Tetra Safestart in to speed up your cycle. My tank was cycled in less than 2 weeks and I never had any nitrite and my nitrates stayed at 5ppm. It really works!


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks for those tips guys! I have been thinking of removing the carbon from my filter cartridge, or even getting sponge to put in its place. Also, I have considered the Safestart but didn't know too much about it!


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Careful now.

It's true that you do not have to do a traditional cycle if you have enough fast growing plants, but the key here is fast growing. Most stem plants (but not all) and more especially floating plants are your fast growers. Plants use Ammonia as their main source of Nitrogen (they actually prefer Ammonium and will convert Ammonia to Ammonium). That is why you do not have to 'cycle' with bacteria, the plants use the Ammonia before the bacteria could have a chance at it.

However, even with using this method you have to go slow and steady. I assume you are only putting a betta in, so that may be fine, but don't add anything else for at least 2 weeks (snails, shrimp, etc). What size tank? If this is something really small, you still may have problems. Once you add your Betta, test for Ammonia and Nitrite daily. You will probably see at least 0.25 ppm Ammonia but if it goes beyond that you'll need to do a water change. If you see anything for Nitrites, do a water change. Using a water conditioner like Prime will allow you to go 2 days between water changes if you have ammonia/nitrite problems.

For your filter, yes remove the carbon. All it is doing is removing nutrients for the plants. Speaking of nutrients, do you have a plant fertalizer? If not, pick up Florish Comprehensive (check the label, Seachem has many products under the Florish line). You will need to dose that once a week, a day after water changes, to ensure the plants have enough nutrients to continue growing (and using Ammonia).


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## 1077 (Apr 16, 2008)

Geomancer said:


> Careful now.
> 
> It's true that you do not have to do a traditional cycle if you have enough fast growing plants, but the key here is fast growing. Most stem plants (but not all) and more especially floating plants are your fast growers. Plants use Ammonia as their main source of Nitrogen (they actually prefer Ammonium and will convert Ammonia to Ammonium). That is why you do not have to 'cycle' with bacteria, the plants use the Ammonia before the bacteria could have a chance at it.
> 
> ...


+one


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks Geomancer! That's definitely helpful.

The tank is 8 gallons. Nothing else will be living with the one betta. I would consider a snail at some point, but that's not in my plans any time soon. I have been using Flourish Comprehensive since starting up the tank, though I have put it in 2 times a week. I will cut back on that if you think it will still be beneficial! I almost bought some Prime the other day when at the store, I suppose I should pick it up for real next time. Right now I just have the Aqueon Betta water conditioner. 

Oh and as for the new plants themselves, I went with some plants in the "Low Light" section on the site I got them from. I got bacopa carolina, java fern, hygrophila corymbosa and some micro sword (ok that was a medium light plant but I liked it for the foreground and thought I'd take my chances ). I also have 2 moss balls from when I first got the tank. Hoping to get a good photo up soon!


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

You can do twice a week, but if your light isn't bright enough to balance the extra nutrients you can end up with an algae problem. Every tank is different, so there is no stead fast rule on that.

Of the plants you list, only the two stem plants will grow quickly with the Hygrophila being the fastest. The others are slow growers.

The microsword.... well, that will be luck based. From my experience though, in low to medoerate light it doesn't do much. Stays alive, but doesn't really grow much. I believe it needs upper end of moderate to bright lighting, and CO2 injection to really take off. All my tanks are low-tech so I don't mess with the whole CO2 injection thing. It sets the bar higher for everything else (balance remember).


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Sounds good. I'll keep an eye on the algae situation and adjust if need be!

If the micro sword just stays alive, I'll be happy! I love the look of grass carpets, but I don't see that in my tank's future since it's a low tech setup also. Thanks again for all the help!


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## DiiQue (Jul 15, 2012)

I have the Aqueon 8 and had it heavily planted. The stock LED didn't do much so most of my original plants died. Kfryman, one of the planted tank gurus on this site, pointed me to the "Finnex FugeRay Aquarium LED Light Plus Moonlights, 12-Inch" light. My wife bought it for me as an xmas present and it looks like it will do the trick (I turned it on just to make sure it works, prior to my wife gift-wrapping it). It is highly regarded by serious planted tank people so I'm excited to deck out my tank again with live plants. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007URQQMC/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00

As someone else mentioned, the Aqua SafeStart worked for me as well -- my tank cycled in about 6days after I put that stuff in!

Good luck!


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Wow, that's a nice looking light! It's interesting about your experience with the LED light - the same thing basically happened to me! However I realize now through the help of some people here that I chose medium to high light plants. I am sure that didn't help. They went through a first round of losing leaves, etc. I pruned them and hoped for the best. They were definitely growing (albeit slow) because new shoots were forming...but I lost leaves again in a second round and decided to start all over again with low light plants. I am hoping these new ones make it! If they don't, then I may seriously consider that light. I know it sounds really dumb, but I like when things are..."the way they are supposed to be". I want the light to match the tank it goes with. You know? But it's really just being anal about aesthetics  And anyhow, it looks like yours is really sleek. I'd love to see pics of how it looks once you've got it on your Evolve! Good luck to you too!


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

I build my own LED light fixture for my 20 gallon. It uses two ultra high power 5665K LEDs. each one of those LEDs is equivalent to an 18" T8 tube. I actually bought three, but figured that would just be too much without CO2 injection.

Of course as usual, DYI projects don't look as nice as store bought  At least when you're just an Engineer and not an artist (or craftsman in this case).


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## DiiQue (Jul 15, 2012)

Yeah I know what you mean about aesthetics... I looked all over the web to see if I could buy another stock LED fixture but they just dont sell them. I'll post pics with the new light once everything is set up. I have floating plants for the most part right now with the stock light and they seem to be doing okay (no melting yet) so hopefully with the new light I can at least plant most of them in the substrate to make the tank look even better.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

This is the picture of the beast I made. Some say form over function, I say function over form


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## strangelove (Dec 8, 2012)

Wow that looks heavy duty! Very cool.


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