# Stocking Ideas!



## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Okay so sometime soon, hopefully, I will get a 16 gallon tank that comes with a stand, for a low cost of free! It will be filtered by an Ehiem Pro 2232, rated for up to 35 gallons with 150 GPH or so. The substrate will be Carbisea Eco-Complete sand. It will have live plants but not heavily planted.

I am leaning to species that are from the same region so neon/cardinal tetras with cories. Any suitable stocking ideas are welcome. No betta I want something different.

My first idea was:
10-12 neons or 7-9 cardinals
5-6 peppered cories
honey/dwarf flame gourami (If bio-load permits)


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

What kind of water do you have?
Neons and cories doesn't really sound "different" to me, why not go for something more unique? 
Hate to impose my dreams on you, but I would loove a coldwater tank with celestial pearl danios and panda loach :3 Both are even Asian species! Cold water fish don't get enough credit in my opinion


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

That is similar to some of my stocking ideas for my 29 gal. I would like cardinals, dwarf gourami, and kuhli loaches. All of those are soft water fish. Cardinals and neons are specifically sensitive to water hardness and will have significantly shortened lives in hard water. Gourami and kuhli loaches are a bit more flexible when it comes to hardness. Biotypes are neat tanks, but in order to have a successful one you need to get fish that will work well with your water parameters (water hardness and pH).


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I know that my water is perfect for salt water tanks, the pH is at about 8. I think I have hard water...

What species are fine with that? I still want a dwarf gourami though.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

A dwarfie may live in that.. but it probably wouldn't do well.
That's really high.
You could try paradise fish, they're air breathers, related to gourami and betta, and could survive in that high pH.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Macropodus&species=opercularis&id=27
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Macropodus&species=spechti&id=29

The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head are livebearers. Or brackish water if you want to try that. 
Neons and cories are pretty much out of the question with a pH of 8 though.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

What about endowed and something else?


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

Sorry to but in, but what is a bio-type tank?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

We have had neons before and they lived like 2 years. And that was before I knew anything about fish. Heck my sister and my mom have a 5 gallon tank that has 2 cherry barbs, 3 harlquine rasboras and a Chinese algae eater that is at least 3 inches lol.

Don't fish adapt like bettas any ways?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Maisy it is where all the fish are from the same region and similar water types. Si neons and cories would be a biotype tank, well if course having plants that are in the area too.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

kfryman said:


> Maisy it is where all the fish are from the same region and similar water types. Si neons and cories would be a biotype tank, well if course having plants that are in the area too.


Thanks! Harlequin Rasbora and Betta are both from Thailand, right?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

No idea never researched it. Having fake plants in my opinion isn't a biotype, if you don't have live plants.

Anways, what are stocking ideas/ numbers I can have them in?

I was reading online and numerous sites say that because tetras are so popular, especially the neons, they are suitable for my water. They have been bred to adapt by breeders Si that means I van in fact get neons.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh darn cant edit...

How many neons could be in the 16 gallon tank with a dwarf flame/neon gourami?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I'd say around 10-11 should be fine. 
You might want to add some tannins in the water anyways, it should improve their colours


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Neons and cardinals live around 10 years in captivity under ideal conditions. Yes, the captive bred varieties can adapt to harder water, but your fish are going to suffer. Scientists have opened the bodies of neons and cardinals that lived in hard water and found significant kidney blockage as their kidneys are adapted to soft (less mineral content) water and have to work much more in hard (high mineral content) water to keep proper osmoregulation. The energy your fish have to spend on this is energy they won't spend on a strong immune system. I strongly recommend going with a hard water fish. Guppies and platys aren't the only varieties. Aquabid often has some really neat and strange livebearers like the goodeids. Try looking for a fish called the Tequila Splitfin. There are also some rainbow fish that can live in hard water. You could also look at the possibility of a cichlid tank.

For some other hardwater fish ideas, this is a great article: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Small cichlids.. There are these ones that live in shells.. called shell dwellers. They are plain, but it's cool that they live in shells, I'm sure a few could live in a 16 gal. 
I saw these really cool swordtails on aquabid- green with white spots. Koimaiden is right, livebearers come in some crazy colours online


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Meh, live bearers poop so much. The only ones I would really consider is endlers. I will look on there again though.

What kind of shells would I use though? And do they dig as well like normal cichlids? I have seen them before and they are cool but if they are plain I don't want them. I am looking for fish that will look good on display. Plus with livebears I wouldn't know what to do if some babies survive. I will look into Sherlock dwellers. I guess it also helps I know someone on YouTube that has some.

So I could do neons but they will live a bit shorter and have a lower immune system? What do cray tetras look like? If they are the invisible ones like the names suggest, I don't mind them but I want color in the tank.

I read through that page. I might do shell dwellers.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I have a Dwarf Gourami in pH 8 water, he's doing fab! I started him out in a 15g tank, with 5 Glowlight Tetras and 6 pearl Danios and an apple snail. He now lives in my 29g community tank with my other fish. I'be had him for about 6months now.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Pitluvs, are danios fine in higher pH? If so I may get them as I cannot find a place to buy brevis cichlids.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Most of the schooling fish like rasbora, danios, tetras etc. come from soft water or lower pH areas. Popular fish in the hobby are usually from places like South America or SE Asia.

I definitely agree that some fish do not do well in water that is vastly different from what they would experience in the wild. I also believe that you will often see the best colouration and most natural behaviour in fish kept in tanks that mimic their natural habitat. 

Have you tested the KH of your water? You might have a high GH which will give you a high pH reading, but if the KH is low, you could more easily manipulate your pH to give you a lower reading.

I wondered if there are any native species you have over there, which would do well in hard water? 

You could try a smaller species of rainbowfish, but even then they might grow too big depending on your tank's footprint.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I have Danios in 8pH water as well. They are the oldest fish I have


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

And the do not nip the gourami's fins?

So really pretty much any fish that lives in South America and Asia is out of question. My question is, what are so special about bettas that can be in almost any pH but not other fish? I know they are hardy but most captive bred fish are hardy as well.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Betta splendens as we know them have been so artificially bred that they resemble nothing of their wild counterparts. Unlike most species (aside from colour and 'balloon' varieties), which have been left pretty much alone.

Some fish are more sensitive than others. It's why certain species are often not recommended as a first fish for people. Bettas are in general much hardier. They are the tropical equivalent of a goldfish in many respects. They can tolerate much more than a lot of tropical fish out there.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

+1 ^ LittleBettaFish is right. Because we have been breeding goldfish and betta for so long they are much more tolerable to variant water conditions. Captive bred fish are much more tolerant of different water conditions, but they are also not as beautiful as their wild counterparts. 

Gourami and danio are not recommended together because danio are much more active. Having an active fish around a sedative one like gourami stresses out the sedative fish. 

Depending on what is around you, you could try a native fish tank. In the stream behind my house I have fish that rival the tropicals for color. Mountain redbelly dace are my favorite. Many of the darters found in the US are stunningly beautiful.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> Gourami and danio are not recommended together because danio are much more active. Having an active fish around a sedative one like gourami stresses out the sedative fish.


I actually have my Danios and Gourami in the same tank, but it's a larger tank (29g). The Gourami is much faster than a Betta, mine can easily outrun a Danio. My Gourami is also the dominant fish of the tank, he chases the Danios. I would never guess Gourami as a sedate fish, as mine is a ball of fun who zips across his tank and never stops moving. He's a ham. Of course my Gourami is the first I have owned. I am unsure of the personality of the larger ones, but mines a Dwarf Neon Gourami.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> I actually have my Danios and Gourami in the same tank, but it's a larger tank (29g). The Gourami is much faster than a Betta, mine can easily outrun a Danio. My Gourami is also the dominant fish of the tank, he chases the Danios. I would never guess Gourami as a sedate fish, as mine is a ball of fun who zips across his tank and never stops moving. He's a ham. Of course my Gourami is the first I have owned. I am unsure of the personality of the larger ones, but mines a Dwarf Neon Gourami.


You must have the one exception to the rule because everything I have read about gourami and danio says they don't mix well. Gourami are pretty sedative fish. Mine just hang out below the water sprite all day. They chill and pick at the snails and other critters in the roots.


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

You have seen my Freddy right? I think I just get unique fish, I always pick for personality, not color so maybe that's why  Although, people here have no issue keeping Gourami with nippy tetras, danios, angels and such... 

I've seen my guy hang out under the duckweed a few times, but he's mostly swimming around and touching everything with his little feelers


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Huh I like those fish Koimaiden! Can you catch me some? Jk, where would I find them though, I like the colors but I have never seen them on Aquabid, I look at the US native section a lot.

Don't a lot of people on here have neons or cories in hard water that do just fine? I would like a tank that has fish that can live in my water conditions but if I can't find any I will end up doing other fish. The Bay Area sucks  I want softer water like just neutral so I can have any type of fish, or meet in the middle where I can slightly alter it.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Cray fish seem cool! I could get one in the tank and have no other fish, though having it planted nice won't be allowed as they will eat the plants. Maybe swords and java fern? That is the last thing I will get though if I can't find any thing else.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Pitluvs said:


> You have seen my Freddy right? I think I just get unique fish, I always pick for personality, not color so maybe that's why  Although, people here have no issue keeping Gourami with nippy tetras, danios, angels and such...
> 
> I've seen my guy hang out under the duckweed a few times, but he's mostly swimming around and touching everything with his little feelers


You must have a turbo-gourami! :lol:



kfryman said:


> Huh I like those fish Koimaiden! Can you catch me some? Jk, where would I find them though, I like the colors but I have never seen them on Aquabid, I look at the US native section a lot.
> 
> Don't a lot of people on here have neons or cories in hard water that do just fine? I would like a tank that has fish that can live in my water conditions but if I can't find any I will end up doing other fish. The Bay Area sucks  I want softer water like just neutral so I can have any type of fish, or meet in the middle where I can slightly alter it.


They are pretty little buggers and hardy as I don't know what. You might have something like them in your backyard. The Phoxinus genus is found all over the US. I have seen other sites selling US natives. I think I've seen MRBD being sold before. 

EDIT: Jonah's Aquarium - We sell native fishes - Shipping to the USA - Fish List This is the site I was thinking of. Many of these fish are collected not far from where I live. 

People do keep them in hard water, but "doing fine" is up to debate. They won't show their full colors and will probably live less than normal. If you are okay with the risks, then you could give it a shot.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

That place seems cool, have no idea what most of the fish are. Some have colors that look like killifish, actually they may be killifish, not sure as I am not an expert on them.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

A lot of those are darters (percidae) and minnows (cyprinidae --> like barbs, danio, and goldfish). Topminnow is another name for killifish (fundulidae). There are also some sunfish (centrarchidae) in there, too. The darters are the things that are going to stay smallest; they're also some of the prettiest. If you want more info on the individual fish you should just search their scientific name. There is a lot of info out there on them. There is also a wonderful forum devoted to keeping North American natives. NANFA Forum


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

I know a man who has sunfish. He had 8 of them, but one killed all of the others.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Are the darters all "coldwater" or could they live in tropical tanks? o-O


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

MaisyDawgThirteen said:


> I know a man who has sunfish. He had 8 of them, but one killed all of the others.


A lot of the Lepomis sunfish are rather aggressive. They are the US equivalent of cichlids. They also get really large and need large tanks. They aren't called panfish for nothing! They do get frying pan-sized. But there are some species of sunfish that stay small-ish. 



Olympia said:


> Are the darters all "coldwater" or could they live in tropical tanks? o-O


They are true coldwater fish and need temps ranging from 50F to 60F. I've been out collecting darters and MAN is that water cold. I always came back with completely numb fingers. I gashed my hand open once and didn't even notice it. But those are just Virginia darters. There might be one or two species that can survive around 75F.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

thekoimaiden said:


> A lot of the Lepomis sunfish are rather aggressive. They are the US equivalent of cichlids. They also get really large and need large tanks. They aren't called panfish for nothing! They do get frying pan-sized. But there are some species of sunfish that stay small-ish.


I think he had an 80 Gallon. Not sure, though.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

You'd need a cooler to keep the water that cold!
Maybe some florida species.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

Okay I just became a member on that site, it looks cool!, I will be studying it. What happens if it is hot and the water starts getting warm though?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/Aquarium-chillers/
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewi...aysites&utm_campaign=aquariumchillerstore.com
-___- don't want to scare you. I have neverrr seen chillers in pet stores. I hope that isn't the cheapest kind. From what I'm reading it's not as easy as dropping in an ice cube..


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

On that forum Koimaiden gave me they put a fan over the top of the water and frozen water bottles. Much cheaper lol.

After looking at that I want to experiment with Kitty Litter for planting instead of dirt. Has so much clay so plants will grow crazy! You have to get litter that only has baked clay though. Maybe I will try it in my % gallon as I am thinking of redoing it sometime.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Yea, that's true, you'd have to watch it a lot more though I'm guessing. Those darters are pretty cool though 
There's litter that's just baked clay? o-o
everything these days seems so fancy and scented. xD


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I guess Walmart has some that is just clay... It is Walmart's brand, Special Kitty litter... Hope it doesn't have lead! Jk, a scientist on the forum did an analysis, not very much if any, I forgot lol.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Coolers can be pretty expensive. If you know someone who is handy you could ask them to make one from an old water fountain. I have to use some cooling techniques on my goldfish tank in the summer to keep it below 80F. I just leave the lid open and always have a fan going. 

What species do you have your eye on kfryman?


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

I am not sure I need to find something small that will be fine in the 16 gallon. The daces seem quite nice. If I do decide on going with native species, I will need to research more though. That is if I do score to go down that path.


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