# Gold DTPK I just bought from Aquabid..



## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

*Somnuk9999* to be exact. *Don't mind his eyes...I understand that he has popeye*. He came like that. -_- He also came with a wound on his side that I assumed to be a damaged scale. Unfortunately, the wound grew in size from only one scale in size to about 2 scales by 2-3 (2x2.5) scales in size now.

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5-3 Gallons (temporary/crappy critter keeper...)
What temperature is your tank? 80º-81ºF
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Products (pellets and bloodworms)
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3 pellets a day... 2 bloodworms every other day with 3 pellets... fast 1 day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? daily for medical treatment
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Aqueon Ammonia Neutralizer and Kordon Fish Protect

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.8
Hardness: 150 (hard)
Alkalinity: 120 (ideal)

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Scale wound has become significantly larger regardless of water changes. In fact, the wound appears to have a bit of flesh jutting out from underneath the said scales like a pimple.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Become more skittish and paces the back wall of the tank 24/7. I have never seen him calm down...even pulled an all-nighter to see if he would stop.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Since I got him on the 29th of December. He's been getting progressively worse apparently.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 100% water changes with aquarium salt (1 tsp/gallon...one of his eyes that had popeye has gone down. The other is being more stubborn...now his wound is getting worse).
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Seeing how he came in such a poor condition, I assume that he probably has.
How old is your fish (approximately)? 4 months

Pictures (link included in case it won't load):

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4175/1000523my.jpg









http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6480/1000521ci.jpg









Here is what he looked like before:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5310/1000457s.jpg








More pictures in this thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=58478
Obviously, the scale/wound is much larger. What is the diagnosis?


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## Velio (Dec 4, 2010)

bump


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Poor guy... He's beautiful. OFL usually recommends Epsom salt rather than aquarium salt - perhaps try that? I hope his young age keeps him fighting.

Sorry I can't offer you more advice - I hope bumping this a bit makes someone more experienced come around.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

poor little guy! D: have you contacted the breeder?

try that blue stuff(forget what it's called). some people say that helps with wounds.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> poor little guy! D: have you contacted the breeder?
> 
> try that blue stuff(forget what it's called). some people say that helps with wounds.


I did try to contact him...he just says "Oh he is ok. He just hurt in shipping." I don't think this is shipping anymore. :evil: He has stopped responding to my emails as of late.

Methylene blue? Betta Fix? There's a lot of blue stuff :-?

@kfish: 

I was going to use epsom salt...but the wound looked a bit more serious than his eyes...and I didn't want more bacteria to potentially start affecting him or making his wound worse :-( At least one eye is decent...

Calling OFL? :-(


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

the first one! Methylene blue. it's not a fix-all, but at least it'll help some, and i heard it dyes dead skin/fins blue. >.>; 

no way is that shipping. how the heck could he get a wound on his side during shipping? and popeye, too? Dx that was him. >.>;


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

/sigh What a shame that the breeder can't own up to his mistakes. He's not doing himself any favor with poor customer service. Rate him badly!

I really hope you get the response you need and I hope your new fish gets better soon. Maybe add some crushed, dried oak leaf in the meantime?


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

kfish said:


> /sigh What a shame that the breeder can't own up to his mistakes. He's not doing himself any favor with poor customer service. Rate him badly!
> 
> I really hope you get the response you need and I hope your new fish gets better soon. Maybe add some crushed, dried oak leaf in the meantime?


Well I live in Arizona..sooo... I can't find those haha! But I do have IAL so I'll add those instead ;-)

Unfortunately this was a private transaction...so I can't rate him on Aquabid. :-(


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Drax has a bad eye... probably had popeye before I got him. Which he is now blind in... but using Epsom salt did seem to make his eye go... down to a somewhat normal size. 

He also has a mysterious sore on his spine that sounds similar to what you say... doesn't seem to bother him buuuuuut I'll wait and see what you guys think for you.


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Wow it's like the guy tried to breed your fish before he sent him to you D=

I'm definatly no betta disease expert, but maybe you can PM OFL or adastra? That looks painful to your fishy )=>


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

baylee767 said:


> Wow it's like the guy tried to breed your fish before he sent him to you D=
> 
> I'm definatly no betta disease expert, but maybe you can PM OFL or adastra? That looks painful to your fishy )=>


Looks like I might have to...the little pimple of flesh from his wound has gotten bigger. This is starting to look bad.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would switch to Epsom salt 2tsp/gal and even go up to 3tsp/gal in 24h...watch his tolerance to it at 3tsp/gal...if you have tannins I would add that too...mix up a 1gal jug of dechlorinated treatment water with the Epsom salt and tannins so they can steep and get really dark...and make 50% daily water changes keeping the water temp in the 76-78F range.....Since I only do natural treatment that is what I would do.....I will have to look closer at the pic...are you sure it is not an external parasite under the skin

How is his overall behavior and appetite? I just skimmed over the post...

If he came from Aquabid I sure hope you leave neg feedback and even challenge the paypal payment if that is how you payed.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> I would switch to Epsom salt 2tsp/gal and even go up to 3tsp/gal in 24h...watch his tolerance to it at 3tsp/gal...if you have tannins I would add that too...mix up a 1gal jug of dechlorinated treatment water with the Epsom salt and tannins so they can steep and get really dark...and make 50% daily water changes keeping the water temp in the 76-78F range.....Since I only do natural treatment that is what I would do.....I will have to look closer at the pic...are you sure it is not an external parasite under the skin
> 
> How is his overall behavior and appetite? I just skimmed over the post...
> 
> If he came from Aquabid I sure hope you leave neg feedback and even challenge the paypal payment if that is how you payed.


Alright I'll go to epsom salt - I have IAL so I'll add that too. 

The wound...let's see...a good way to explain it is like this (with food...only say I know how). You know how you cook salmon and sometimes you can cook it too long? Then there's white gooey protein leaking out in between each layer of meat? That's what the wound looks like - coagulated protein. Or like a small piece of egg white that was scrambled.

His appetite has increased - it's just really hard for him to eat because I think he has a mouth deformity.. but he'll eat 3 pellets a day and every other day I add 3 bloodworms with his meal (and I fast 1 day out of the week).

I'm not educated with parasites, but I'll try to take a closer look. Could you perhaps give me some ideas as to what kind of parasite it may be?

Also: This fish was a private transaction, so I didn't buy it off of Aquabid, but I bought it from an Aquabid seller. Should I still challenge paypal for my money? (I paid $18 for the fish and $5 shipping from the seller..how much do I try to get back? Just 18?)


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Look up lympsitosis (sp) that is what it remind me of...it also reminds me of tumors that can often be seen on DT that are poorly bred...goole those and see if they fit what you see

I am not sure on the paypal thing- I don't deal with aquabid or paypal to know how they work...but this fish has multi problems and I would say they started at the breeders IMO...


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Look up lympsitosis (sp) that is what it remind me of...it also reminds me of tumors that can often be seen on DT that are poorly bred...goole those and see if they fit what you see
> 
> I am not sure on the paypal thing- I don't deal with aquabid or paypal to know how they work...but this fish has multi problems and I would say they started at the breeders IMO...


Ugh! It looks exactly like the start of Lymphocystis / Cauliflower Disease :evil: 

Is it transmittable? -_-; I use a lot of my aquarium equipment for cleaning the tanks...my other fish look fine so far.

Since it's grown one whole millimeter in a day's time..I'm only going to assume it's going to get big fast...how big will it get...will it kill him...can I use a medical scalpel and trim it off like you would trim a cyst off of a large goldfish?

And if it does get bigger...regardless of treatment measures...if it starts to affect him..should I... (I hate saying this..) put an end to his misery?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

poor fella. he has a whole book of issues, doesn't he? D: i'd e-mail the guy, and say you're in no way happy with what's happened, and that you will never buy from him again. >.>' if you're feeling especially angry, tell him you're gonna suggest no one buy from him again.

at any rate, i do hope your little fella pulls through. D: he's so cute, deformities or no.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It is viral in nature and so yes it can be passed to other fish, however, it is hard to pass if the other fish have strong immune systems...I would not use him for breeding

Sometimes it will get really big and then open up and start oozing fluids usually white/yellow/red in color-heal up-go away-come back....sometimes they can get fairly big and impede the fish ability to swim, eat, live...etc.....depending on its location....you can manually remove it-but this in of itself can be stressful on the fish and yes, when the fish is suffering you have to do what is right by the fish......
Good luck.....poor guy has multi problems going on-give him some time, good nutrition and quiet dim lit good water quality and build his immune response and he may surprise you by fighting it off on his own.....


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> It is viral in nature and so yes it can be passed to other fish, however, it is hard to pass if the other fish have strong immune systems...I would not use him for breeding
> 
> Sometimes it will get really big and then open up and start *oozing fluids usually white/yellow/red in color-heal up-go away-come back*....sometimes they can get fairly big and impede the fish ability to swim, eat, live...etc.....depending on its location....you can manually remove it-but this in of itself can be stressful on the fish and yes, when the fish is suffering you have to do what is right by the fish......
> Good luck.....poor guy has multi problems going on-give him some time, good nutrition and quiet dim lit good water quality and build his immune response and he may surprise you by fighting it off on his own.....


*pushes plate of medium eggs with ketchup away* >.>;;

Yeah, I'm doing my best to try and see if he gets better...he's still relatively active, but I just checked on him and now he's swimming weird..still active but..it just doesn't seem *right*. Hard to explain. It's like he's swimming off-center. Not SBD funny, but just erratic and tilting about 2 mm off-center toward his side with a wound. 

The ventral fins are looking duller... if I'm not mistaken, they almost look like they're dying off. They don't stick out from under his body anymore - they're wispy in nature (not size-wise, the way they flow in water) and get pulled with the mini current his pectoral fins create. 

As for removing the lump, could I give him some sort of natural anesthetic? I'm not sure what they use for goldfish, but I bet whatever they use the dosage or the chemical is probably wayyyy too strong for a betta.

As for breeding...I don't think I would breed him if he arrived healthy. His fins are pretty and his colors as well, but the tail really isn't ideal and his head is a bit...small. He was just a Christmas present by my fiance =) Supporting my betta habits, ha ha. 

I'll try to keep his status updated...he's just not acting normally at the moment. I'm not exactly sure what behavior shows crossing the line of suffering other than going "belly up" and/or gasping for air...is there a way to tell sooner so he doesn't start suffering and hurting before the "at death's door stage"? =/


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

The displacement that is caused by the growth can sometimes cause erratic type swimming or the appearance of being off balance

As long as he is eating and able to swim without too much trouble or showing a lot of distress in general-he is most likely not suffering...if he start hiding, becoming inactive, struggling to swim, appetite loss or other symptoms that could be secondary in nature and not responding to treatment...well.....you have to use your judgment and you will know when it is time......

You never know...these guys can surprise you sometimes and bounce back...I am not a big fan of OTC medications-but you may want to try them if he seems to get worse or symptom change....I can't recommend anything as I haven't used them in over 15 years.....he is a lovely male and a shame that the breeder/seller sold him in such poor conditions......


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Update:

..noticed scratching...hooray for *VELVET*. I used a light to shine against him...under normal light from above (fluorescent), he looks fine...but shining from the side, there's dark gold "dust" on his scales and fins...especially on his extremely damaged ventral fins..

He also has what appears to be another scale on the left side of his body near his tail that turned white...just like how his wound first started out...he's starting to become more wobbly when he swims...breathing much harder regardless of water level, epsom salt, and IAL... temp is at 79-80 degrees Fahrenheit...eye still shows no sign of improvement...it has gotten a little bigger.

Original wound is much bigger...increased size 1x1 scale...

Poop looks like little grains of dust instead of something more "solid". I have no idea what's going on. :-(


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

gawd, the poor baby! D: so many issues! i do hope he gets better really soon! ;A; it makes me cry to think about what could have happened to him before you got him!


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## kfish (Oct 5, 2010)

Looks like it might be time to start an anti-parasite treatment... Dim the lights, up the temperature.

I wonder if the scale marks are also parasites...


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

Poor little guy... that seller is a terrible breeder to do this to his fish!

I'd try maracyn, it treats pop eye and velvet, and if there is something you don't know about it'll get rid of that... I know nothing about that disease (What you called it) Sorry )=

He isn't in a critical state yet, so there is still time for him to pull through.


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## HayrideHaunter (Dec 20, 2010)

that poor baby! I hope he gets better...I cant offer any advice but offering good thoughts!


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Well..I woke up today to find that he has just passed away. :-( Found him behind the heater with his gills stretched out a little..so I assume he died in pain. I'm devastated...I can't believe that I couldn't help him.. his wound seemed to have gotten a little bigger, too, overnight. 

I'm contacting the seller with a lengthy email filled with pictures to show him how poor of a condition his fish was in - no way shipping could do this.  At least he isn't suffering, right?


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

poor little guy. :sob: no way could shipping have resulted in as many issues as your little guy had. the seller probably gave you some betta he had in the back, from the sound of all the issues he has. RIP, little fella. :<


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## HayrideHaunter (Dec 20, 2010)

poor boy...he is at peace now. Kick that sellers butt!


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## Missy2280 (Jan 9, 2011)

So sorry for your loss Some people will do anything to make a buck and not even stop to think how they are treating the fish


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I know Chaba will replace a fish that has problems and dies...he's awesome. Id like to see what you wrote him and how he replied.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> I know Chaba will replace a fish that has problems and dies...he's awesome. Id like to see what you wrote him and how he replied.


I attached a bunch of pictures of what he looked like on arrival and when I had him..showing how he got progressively worse in a few weeks time. I told him that he had lymphocystis (sp?), severely damaged ventral fins, popeye, and velvet. Here's an email from earlier yesterday that didn't include the velvet because I noticed it afterwards:

"It's been a few weeks since I purchased the Gold DTPK from you. I've been monitoring him closely, and his scale has become worse. In fact, he has lymphocystis. I am _extremely_ unhappy with this. Attached are photos (first three) of his developing lump. He also has a case of popeye along with his damaged ventral fins.

The last 3 pictures is what he looked like before. I cannot believe that he got all of his injuries and illnesses during shipping.

-Cerra" 

I included the velvet and the fact that he died...got an immediate apology with the option for a replacement fish. :roll:

"Hi Cerra 
Wait, I take pictures for you to see the new fish. I will not be charged.

Thanks
Somnuk"

"Hi Cerra 
The picture DT
Give you choose one fish for replacement the gold DT.
By that I do not charge you.
And I will send fish to Linda on January 23.

Thanks
Somnuk"

I guess that's something..


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i'd ask Linda to take a look-see at the fish before she even ships to you, just to be on the safe side. i'm really sorry the little fella died. :<


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

That's terrible, I feel so bad for him ),=

He really was a nice looking fish, At least you tried your hardest. He had a good life his last couple of weeks...


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> i'd ask Linda to take a look-see at the fish before she even ships to you, just to be on the safe side. i'm really sorry the little fella died. :<


Yeah I'll have to ask...it's really hard to get ahold of her for some reason. Each time I've tried to use her as a transhipper she's never responded to me or my phone calls..had to always switch to Julie ><


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm so sorry about your fish. You did everything you could for him and he had a nice home for a little while.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

e-mail her/call her now and let her know? i've never used transshippers before. >.>;


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