# How do I put him down?



## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

So Mr. Fish has not eaten since jan 11, two weeks ago today. I am so sad and realize he is not getting better. I made his home as comfortable as I could for him to pass in, because I wanted him to go on his own. He still is with us and I feel cruel just letting him starve to death. I don't know what to do. I want to put him down in the most peaceful way possible, while he is still in his tank. I don't want to scoop him into a small cup and add substances because it would make his nervous bein in a cup, he has never liked that when doing water changes, so I want him to be as comfortable as possible. How do I do this, if I even should do it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Why would you want him to die? Not eating for two weeks is normal sometimes, especially with older Betta's. Keep trying to feed him to see if he'll eat. Can you give us the specs of his tank so maybe we can help you improve his condition?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I agree that not eating is no reason to put a fish down. Could you fill this form out, so we could provide more help? 

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## Aryia (Oct 10, 2013)

Adding a picture of the fish might help diagnosis as well. Bettas can last a long time without eating, and if you can save him, I don't think he'll mind the extra couple days of no food.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 2.5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 80 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? omega buffet pellets, freeze dried blood worm
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day, one morning one night (sometimes two morning), gets a freeze dried bloodworm after every water change as a treat

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? water conditioner sometimes stress coat for his ragged fins

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? don't know

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? always had raggedy fins, but grew back a bit after stress coat treatments, now they are falling off again
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? VERY lethargic, thought he died last night because we moved tank and he wasn't moving, started symptoms with spitting out food, then tried to give him buffet flakes, then different pellets, a bloodworm, spat everything out, now doesn't even attempt to eat, tried freeze dried brine shrimp, and then tried soaking pellet in garlic juice, didn't try and eat either. He just sits at the bottom corner, doesn't react to anyone anymore  or he floats at the top, and fins are clamped
When did you start noticing the symptoms? two weeks ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? started with API General Cure because I thought it could be internal parasites, didn't eat after that treatment and then added aquarium salt because that's what helped him back when he was sick in August (although he never stopped eating) but he loves aquarium salt, his fins aren't clamped ALL the time now but still often, and he stopped making bubble nests, literally has no energy because he doesn't have a resource to get it from since he's stopped eating! When he first stopped eating, his poo was brown with white at the end, but not stringy at all. been at LEAST two weeks since stopped eating
Does your fish have any history of being ill? was sick back in august, but still ate, he pulled through still don't know what he had but kept treating him until he got better!
How old is your fish (approximately)? only have had him for 8 mons


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

And I still haven't given up on feeding him, I'll drop it infront of his eyes, even so it lands on him and he'll just swim away


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you post a photo of him?


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

just finished sending them to my computer through my phone with the terrible service my house has.. here is my boy 
sorry the last two are sideways they didn't show like that on my computer


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

if anyone thinks they know what could be wrong and how I can help him, please let me know


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## Philip Bernard Grumpybuns (Jan 1, 2014)

See if you can maybe find live food, that might stimulate him.


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## Philip Bernard Grumpybuns (Jan 1, 2014)

Just keep putting food in his tank, what I do with my betta is I tap lightly on the top and that tells him its dinner time, maybe hes not aware youre putting food in, try and get his attention then drop the food in, Keep us updated


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I went to two different stores before work neither sold live fish food


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you so much I do tho I even wait til he goes to the top for a breath to drop it in so he sees it but then he ignores it


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Frozen fish food is also a possibility if you cant get live. Look for the pet stores that stock stuff for exotic pets, the pet store near where I live stocks frozen bloodworms and a tropical mix. You havent seen crazy until you have seen my boys staring intently at their thawing spoons....waiting


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Why is the difference between freeze dried and frozen? Back hen he'd try to eat and spit it out, I gave him a bloodworm and he just spit it out :l thank you all for your replies it's so nice to have support for a little fishy that a lot of people don't care for because they're "just a fish"


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Freeze dried is like jerky and frozen is like a frozen steak. 
Both from a cow but a little different if you catch my drift 

(this site is for people that love their fishies! I'v been known to scold them. They are used to me by now...but I always laugh at myself)


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## Aryia (Oct 10, 2013)

If you're really desperate for some live food, you can always try fruit flies as well. They are more readily available. Most of my bettas love them like any regular live food. 

Some of my bettas don't seem to like frozen bloodworms. It helps if I let them warm up a bit to roomtemperature and wriggle them as if they were alive. Though half the time they spit it out and give me an angry glare. I swear, I can see it. 

Any type of small worm would do as live food too. My local Ace Garden & Pet Center sells blackworms. Though do be careful with Ace, the quality of their live food depends on the current employees there.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

That's actually what I tried to look for - black worms. But both of the stores didnt have them, and I do wiggle the food around to get his attention but he doesn't care :l he literally doesn't even acknowledge the food. This all happened out of nowhere! I have two girls so they have been happy with the new food I've been getting him that Mr. Fish hasn't been eating except one of my girls has swim bladder (gets it after I feed her any freeze dried food) so I give her the same thing quite often and I don't want her to get sick of it! The thing I heard with live food tho.. Is that it can cause internal parasites or something along those lines


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He doesn't look like there is anything physically wrong with him. Before he stopped eating, did you see any white, stringy poop from him or no poop at all? Have you tried showing him a small mirror to try to get some sort of stimulus going? That, or he'll just swim away from it.

The girl won't get sick of the food, I feed my fish soley on NLS although occasionally they get some frozen foods but they still love their NLS and haven't gotten sick of it over a year so far so she should be fine. Live food MAY cause internal parasites, it's more apt to happen though if you're using random bugs from outside. Cultures you do yourself normally don't give parasites of any sorts.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

It took him a couple of minutes to notice there was a mirror there and he did flare, then he quickly swam up to get air and went on the other side of his tank under his plant. When he first stopped eating, his poo had white at the en but it wasn't stringy at all, then about a week after there was a string of brown but I think it was from the bloodworm because Id leave his food in there for a little while and leave just in case he wanted privacy to eat, thought it was worth a try but he never did eat.. And good I will keep feeding her the pellets. What's NLS? Mom just made a trip to The exotic pet store near my house and they don't have any live fish food either  sigh I don't know what's wrong with Mr fish D:


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh sorry, NLSis New Life Spectrum, its one of the highest quality fish pellet out there fight now, not terribly expensive either  but I've never seen a healthy fish turn it down yet. 

As for Mr. fishy, I'm not sure what it could be since he doesnt look terrible, he does look tired, ragged and a bit stressed but not bad. Does his tank have lights and if so how long do you have them on for? Did you get any heavy rains when he started to feel bad or any pipes burst in the water system that you guys know of? Do you have well or city water and what conditioner do you use? 

Its okay not to use the live food, fish can survive up around d four months without food, it isn't healthy but they can do it. Hopefully the others will chime in with some stuff as well to help out. Four brains are definitely better than one! That's why we have these forums! ^_^


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Well I definitely will be getting that for my fishies then! 
No lights in any of their tanks, just keep
My room light on for them usually, dimmed, and when I go to bed the light is off. I love in Los Angeles and it rarely ever rains here.. No bursted pipes and we have city water, I use BettaSafe by Tetra. I think if it was something in their water all three of them would be acting weird.. I don't know hats wrong with mr. Fish tho :l just did a 100% water change for him and he actually does have a cottony spot on him a tiny little bit (bacteria) but the salt should be helping kill that - I added some more. One thing I did notice before he stopped eating was that he was producing SO much mucus. 

While I was doing his water change I had him in a cup and I dropped a worm in, didnt care, and I dropped a pellet and it landed on his head! He shook it off it was actually so cute but he didn't eat -.- he's completely given up on eating do you think he's starving himself because he wants to die? He did chew and spit out the food when he first stopped eating tho it's like he wanted to but couldn't. 

SERIOUSLY appreciate your help so much. Everyone's. so nice to have support, the first time I ever posted was on yahoo answers and boy that was a huge mistake. Everyone's so mean on that site!


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## Danny94W (Jan 4, 2014)

Not an expert like these guys, but as far as I'm aware you really shouldn't be using Aquarium Salt for more than 10 days straight as it can cause permanent organ damage to your betta.

Someone else can chime in if I'm wrong but I thought I'd say it because no one else had


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No worries, we're always happy to help (usually lol, there are a few grumpy members from time to time).

How long have you been using AQ salt? Has it been regularly?

Danny is right about the AQ salt, well more than 10 day's isn't going to do damage to the Betta right away, it's just more of a chance that it will hurt them the more you use it. This is why I reserve it for needed emergencies only. AQ salt does a few things; it keeps wounds sterilized after being opened. Like a ripped fin, you can use AQ salt to sterilize the wound for a day but after that it will heal up on it's own usually very well unless your water parameters (like ammonia) is really bad. That's why doing daily water changes or every other day water changes for fish with ripped fins is good. If they live in a cycled 5 gallon or bigger, they'll generally be fine without the water changes as well. Feeding a good diet, like NLS will help in fin regeneration.

Anyway, back to AQ salt and it's effects. So it sterilizes wounds, balances out electrolytes (although generally that's not needed) and it aggrivates the slime coat which means he will over produce his coat and it does look like mucus being shed off him. That part of the salt is only good for external parasites like Ich, it can push the parasites off the body but only for a short period of time, that's why it's better to just use medication IF the situation calls for it. Or in the case of Ich, just turn your heater up (if it's adjustable) to around 86-88 degree's and the disease will die off.

Anyway, so if you've been using salt for a long time, discontinue the use of it for all your fish and hope that your boy isn't too far gone. There is a small chance the salt could have already effected him badly and his organs are shutting down. However that normally goes much quicker and he would have already been dead by now. So I'll wait to talk further until you answer the questions here


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm only on the second water change for the salt so it's the 8th day now (I just added some yesterday) OMG I JUST WOKE UP AND SAW HIM SWIMMING so I rushed over and dropped a pellet AND HE SWAM UP
TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!! He looked at it and swam away  but before he wouldn't even try!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm really going to try and look for live food I really think hell try eating it. Damn why won't he eat >:0 grrrrrr!!!!!

I know it's not ich because he doesn't have white spots. I do have quick cure and another off brand ich treatment on hand just incase tho. Wow that's the most active my boy had been in two weeks :') I really hope he starts eating. I am telling ya that salt works wonders! I will do a 25-50% change tomorrow of the next day so it doesn't ruin his organs. Keep your fingers crossed! He is swimming a little jerky but not itching on anything.. I think he's just using a lot of energy to swim but he's being really active right now!


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I just had him follow around a bloodworm that I dragged around to tr and get him to eat and he was interested but he wouldn't eat it!!! >:0


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## Bettafishadopter (Jan 20, 2014)

Ok there are two things you can do:
1. Try a unshelled boiled pea.
2. Get some rooibos tea, you can find this at most grocery stores.


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## Bettafishadopter (Jan 20, 2014)

Try rooibos tea to cheer him up.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

So my mom just brought some love black worms... HE ATE THEM DDDD he did stop after three I hope he will keep eating more later. I hav a feeling he won't just
Because he stopped eating them but well see. What do I do with the tea? I tried the pea a while ago and he wouldn't eat it :l I'm so happy he ate! My mom and I were cheering and hugging we were so happy :')


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## Aryia (Oct 10, 2013)

3 is a good number to stop at, make sure you don't overfeed either, otherwise he might become constipated. I used to feed 3 worms each time, 2 times a day. If you can tell by the belly, go by the belly.

Also, with blackworms, try to make sure the batch stays fresh. They usually go bad in a week or two with me.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you! I was actually planning on getting new ones tomorrow I didn't know they stayed good for that long wow. It was so great watching him devour those things! I found two that looked like they had been spit out -.- Unless when they poo worms it looks the same :? I'm hoping it's the second one.. otherwise he didnt keep them down


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## Jetcasey123 (Jan 9, 2014)

Maybe get some new food that looks different. My betta didn't eat for 2 weeks so I got new food and suddenly he ate it!


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I will definitely have to try that too. hopefully he eats the worms for dinner tonight :s


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Bad news everyone... just went to feed Mr. Fish the live worm for dinner, not only did he ignore it, but I found all the other worms from earlier that he spit up


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Why were you using AQ salt in the first place? Was it for his fins? His fins are supposed to look spiky since he is a Crowntail.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I started the aq salt because I didn't know what he had (the general cure
By API wasn't working) and I did notice a teeny little white cotton spot near his fin. I used to use stress coat for his fins but I stopped when he started producing a lot of mucus thinking it could be a possible factor


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

He is showing symptoms of dropsy. Still hasn't eaten. it's been three weeks today. He is starting to pinecone a little bit. What should I do? I feel like making him suffer through this is cruel.


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## Aquablue (Feb 3, 2014)

Sorry can't comment on dropsy (think it has to do with kidneys which can be affected by salt but not sure-will try to read up on it after I comment on food suggestion) PetSmart usually carries frozen Hikari fish foods (you'll see a little freezer in the fish section) I don't know if all the PetSmarts carry them so if you have a few in your area I'd call them (think they open at 8am?) to see if they do. The betta I'm helping to take care of loves the Hikari frozen daphnia (around $5) it comes in small cubes and what I do is put a cube in a plastic food bag and smash it to break it into smaller pieces (easier to feed, less wasteful) with clean hands (no soap residue) I take one small piece, put it in a small bowl and thaw it with my finger and then move it to the top of the bowl to drain a little (each daphnia is so tiny a small amount will quickly disperse in the water, no problem for bettas but the one I'm watching has chronic SBD and can't go swimming after each individual daphnia so letting it drain for a second keeps it in a tiny clump and that helps water quality too) and then put a smaller tiny clump on my fingertip then lightly tap the top of the aquarium water and the betta quickly grabs it right up  Frozen foods less chance of transmitting a disease like live foods and they last a long time in freezer. Hopefully another member with knowledge and experience with dropsy will post soon! Also, have you searched for posts on dropsy in this forum and Googled it? There is a ton of info out there!


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## Aquablue (Feb 3, 2014)

Quickly read a few articles. Read dropsy (more of a symptom?) is mainly from kidney damage (which has different causes like bacterial infections, overuse of salt, etc.) So much info out there but you should take a look at: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com (and look at the long column on the right side you'll see #44 is about causes, treatment and prevention of dropsy) I would read it very carefully before deciding on a course of treatment as some strong medications are recommended for each disease written up on this site (and medication can be stressful especially if misused by overdosing or using one that a particular type of fish is sensitive to) but the author seems very knowledgable from a lot of experience. Maybe read up as much as possible and some other posts should show up soon (but I know time is of the essence in treating fish diseases!)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aqua is right, although Dropsy can come about from many different things. I do find the most common reason for Dropsy is overuse of Salt or sometimes medication. It's generally a failure of the liver or kidney's because they are over worked by trying to filter out the medication or salt or whatever it is in the water. So over worked organs can sometimes shut down, this produces a back up of fluids basically. Your fish will fill with fluids while everything is shutting down and once it's completely down, the fish will die.

HOWEVER! There are cases where fish DO live after going into Dropsy mode! Sometimes it's not organ failure but something else, generally bacterial I think but I'm not too certain about that one. This is why most people, even though it kind of contradicts what I was saying about Dropsy, use KanaPlex and Epsom Salt. If the organs are going to shut down, they will shut down, however if it's a different reason for the fish to pinecone, then the KanaPlex (Broad Spectrum Antibiotic) and Epsom Salt should help along and that's what the fish are usually cured with if it's not organ shut down.

Epsom Salt (100% Magnesium Sulfate, no additives, scents or dyes) can be found at your regular pharmacy usually in the first aid section. It's a natural laxative and actually fertilizer for gardens as well. But what it does to the fish is release the fluid build up, making it easier on the fish. This will help the fish feel more comfortable if the fish passes, if the fish is not in organ shut down then it will help draw out the liquids to reduce the pineconing. Generally we start with 1 teaspoon per gallon and increase slowly to 3 teaspoons per gallon over the next day or so. If the fish is very pineconed then go ahead and start with the 3 tsp/gal but acclimate very slowly over an hour to hour and a half. They will generally be sensitive at this point I've found so the more you can acclimate them to the new salty water, the better. But again, if the fish is in shut down mode, it's not going to make much a difference except make them feel a little better before they do pass.

So in all, it's sort of a win-lose situation; if the fish is going to die you can at least make the comfortable. On the win side of it, the Epsom Salt and KanaPlex could reverse the effects and bring the fish back, but again, we will never really know which side of Dropsy it is until either the fish passes or gets better. I wish you the luck with your fish and remember to always dissolve your salt before putting them in with your fish! Salt makes heat as it dissolves so it will burn your fish if you don't dissolve first and add second!


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## Aquablue (Feb 3, 2014)

Sorry about your fish, hope it is ok! Just read through all of #44 and I am getting confused. There are a few different recommended courses of treatment to try. But in one of them he recommends adding regular salt to a medicated bath to draw out fluids but I thought I read that it is Epsom salts that helps with that? (And I've read that when regular salt is called for it should be aquarium salt?) Sorry if adding any confusion to what must be a difficult time for you, am very new to fish caretaking and need to read up on everything before adding any advice especially on disease treatment. Hope your betta is well soon


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aquablue said:


> Sorry about your fish, hope it is ok! Just read through all of #44 and I am getting confused. There are a few different recommended courses of treatment to try. But in one of them he recommends adding regular salt to a medicated bath to draw out fluids but I thought I read that it is Epsom salts that helps with that? (And I've read that when regular salt is called for it should be aquarium salt?) Sorry if adding any confusion to what must be a difficult time for you, am very new to fish caretaking and need to read up on everything before adding any advice especially on disease treatment. Hope your betta is well soon


Yes there are two main kinds of salts we use; Aquarium salt and Epsom Salt. Here's how you remember and use them:

Aquarium Salt is for EXTERNAL things like Ich and sterilizing wounds like ripped tails or open sores on the body.

Epsom Salt is for INTERNAL things like Pop-eye (although in some cases it's also bacterial so ES isn't enough), Dropsy and Internal Parasites. Used as a laxative to push and draw out liquids from swelling.


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## Aquablue (Feb 3, 2014)

So glad you posted lilnaugrim, someone with more fish knowledge/experience! sour jacks, best wishes to you and Mr. Fish!


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## Aquablue (Feb 3, 2014)

Lilnaugrim, thank you!  Just read your post on the different salts and their uses- so much to learn! Sourjacks, how is Mr. Fish?


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you both for being so caring about Mr. Fish and taking a tremendous amount of your time to help me!!!!! I am just reading everything now, and I do have Epsom salt (I have a girl with SBD (like you aqua!) and have tried the baths before) I read it stresses them out though? And Mr. Fish actually isn't at all bloated, his scales are just sticking out a tiny bit. But id love to make him feel as comfortable as possible, on Sunday I changed his water and filled it only a little more than half so he doesn't have to do much swimming to get air, make a little dent behind his log for him to lay in,
Things like that because that's exactly how I want him to feel! Comfortable and calm. I still haven't given up on feeding him I try once a day but nothing and aqua I definitely learned my lesson with life food(this past week) they love it so much but they either can't poop or start acting weird! One of my girls violet (healthiest one of the 3) started having darts after and huge poops, and petunia of course was having swim bladder of course. I will have to move onto freeze foods even though they went crazy over the brine shrimp and worms  I actually have freeze dried daphnia because I read somewhere it helps with their bowel movements kind of like the pea? So I've been giving her a little big of that too. And lilnaugrim I still have to make it to the store to get that fancy fish food you were talking about! Haven't had the chance yet... School is kicking my butt


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## DaytonBetta (Feb 4, 2014)

By reducing the water volume (lowering the water level by half) you are making it more likely that ammonia levels will build up quickly.


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

I am going to change the water more often when it is this low. And I am about to add the epsom salt because he does look a little bit bloated :s


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

No improvement  will add more salt in the morning. My poor boy.. He's going through so much D: less than a week will mark no food for a whole month
He has been making jerky movements too :l


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Rest in peace Mr. Fish. Thank you all so much for your help and support


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm so sorry for your loss. :-( I was hoping your little guy would pull through. RIP Mr. Fish.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm sorry I didn't comment earlier. I think through all he's been through, he had a good life. Through this experience though you've gained more knowledge to help other fish down the road and that's how I look at all fishes death generally, just thinking about how much you've learned through the life of the fish, through your mistakes and successes there lies a lot of stuff!

Swim in peace little buddy!


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## sourjacks (Aug 20, 2013)

Thank you both! I hoped he would too but I'm glad he's gone he was so unhappy  
That is exactly what I did, I learned so much through everyone especially you lilnaugrim and felt like after he passed I should go rescue a fishy at the local pet store that won't get a chance, because noone would buy a sick fish, only a pretty healthy one. Spotted one that had ich (no pun intended) and am working on him! I've never treated ich before but I have medications for it from when Mr. Fish was sick months ago, I bought different ones just in case. I'm also being super careful because of my other two girls.. don't want to somehow transfer it to their tanks. Just added treatment and will keep everyone updated!


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm glad one of the sick ones got picked up by someone so eager to care for him. Good luck with your new guy! :-D I'm sure he's going to love his new home!


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