# Can I breed female crowntail/male veiltail?



## katfish13 (Dec 21, 2015)

I have a beautiful female crowntail that I would love to breed with my veiltail. I'm new to bettas, but raising killifish has taught me to be strict about not crossbreeding species and preserving bloodlines. My question is, may I crossbreed species? Is it frowned upon? And would crossbred babies be okay? Cross bred killis are often infertile, and I don't want my betta fry to be weird mutants that never sell. Attached are pictures of my male veiltail, Fawkes, and my female crowntail, Lila. 
Thank you in advance,
Katelyn :-D


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

They wouldn't nescessarily be mutants, they would just have rather messy and undesirable fins. Their colors would also be all over the place, since you bred a red male with a blue w/red wash female. 

I think that the biggest thing is, what do you hope to gain from this pairing? Are you ready to invest approximately $500 and over in supplies to care for the fry? Are you also ready to care for 50-300 individuals?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Well, breeding Killies is very different from breeding Betta's. I suggest you do all the reading you absolutely can, it's definitely no walk in the park when you breed Betta's!

First, these are different species but just variations in one species. All the tail types and colorations are just variation but all one specie: Betta Splendens. Crossing tail types is totally fine but you likely won't end up with some nice looking fish. There are standards to all tail types that we try to adhere to for good form and overall attractive fish. Breeding VT and CT will get you mostly VT's with web reduction in their fins. Your girl looks like she is the result of that, her web reduction isn't anywhere near what it should be for a CT female.

Overall, it looks like you have a healthy pair, just make sure you have the time to commit to daily water changes for the fry and feeding twice a day at least. You'll also have to cull deformed fry, it's not always a matter of healthy parents, you'll run into deformed fry even if you're the best Betta breeder, just a fact of life is all. But yes, ask us all the questions you have and do all the reading you possibly can before putting them together!


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## Aquastar (Jul 17, 2015)

It wont be cross breeding species, just colours/genetics. It wouldn't look nice. And if your new to bettas, dont. Bettas are different from killies and I believe are harder. Like breeding a silver tabby with a persian.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

As Lilnaugrim has mentioned, the different tail types are just variations of the same species: Betta splendens. I personally frown on hybridising the different _species_ of betta, as do many 'purists', but crossing tail types is definitely not the same thing. 

However, as also mentioned, VTxCT is a very undesireable cross. Low quality CT and VTs are a dime a dozen in most places, and crossing the two will give you fish with messy looking fins. 

Personally I'd recommend either a VTxVT cross, or a CTxCT cross. This will give you a better chance at producing a higher quality fish. 

Also, I've bred killifish (the mop spawning sort) and I've bred bettas, and there is very little similarity between the two. Definitely do a lot of reading, both on this forum, and outside of it, to see just what the process involves.


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## katfish13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Thanks for all your responses! I will do my research and look into buying a female veiltail to breed.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

+1 everyone above

How big is the female (body measurement)? If she is over 3cm (body), its safe to assume she is over 5 months or almost full grown. Many bettas naturally has spikey fins which genes were isolated to create the CT - but bred out to create HM. That being said, I don't think your female is a CT. She may carry the genes, but not enough to cause web reduction on fry. IMO she is more VT or round tail, which should be safe to breed with VT male. But if you want to be safe, getting a new VT female with oval cuadal would be better.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

indjo said:


> +1 everyone above
> 
> How big is the female (body measurement)? If she is over 3cm (body), its safe to assume she is over 5 months or almost full grown. Many bettas naturally has spikey fins which genes were isolated to create the CT - but bred out to create HM. That being said, I don't think your female is a CT. She may carry the genes, but not enough to cause web reduction on fry. IMO she is more VT or round tail, which should be safe to breed with VT male. But if you want to be safe, getting a new VT female with oval cuadal would be better.


Is 3-3.5cm an acceptable size to sell juveniles at? At this size some males already nest and some females have full ovaries but they seem kinda small. 


OP: I'd breed that male to a yellow female, perhaps. He's gorgeous!


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## JonIsBack (Nov 16, 2015)

HTageant said:


> They wouldn't nescessarily be mutants, they would just have rather messy and undesirable fins. Their colors would also be all over the place, since you bred a red male with a blue w/red wash female.
> 
> I think that the biggest thing is, what do you hope to gain from this pairing? Are you ready to invest approximately $500 and over in supplies to care for the fry? Are you also ready to care for 50-300 individuals?


Seriously.... $500....?.... Like, I am pretty sure a growout tank such as a 20-30 gallon, heater, and sponge filter does not cost 500 dollars.......


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

JonIsBack said:


> Seriously.... $500....?.... Like, I am pretty sure a growout tank such as a 20-30 gallon, heater, and sponge filter does not cost 500 dollars.......


I mean if your starting from scratch. And besides, that there are other costs including jars, live cultures, pippettes, medications, gang valves for the filter, live plants, IAL, etc. That's also just a rough estimate. Some spawns can cost up to $500, but that's not very often.


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## JonIsBack (Nov 16, 2015)

When I can, I'm gonna get a beautiful 100 galon planted tank with a heater and filter and all that stuff. Breed two amazing betta's and keep them all


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Kisiel said:


> Is 3-3.5cm an acceptable size to sell juveniles at? At this size some males already nest and some females have full ovaries but they seem kinda small.
> 
> 
> OP: I'd breed that male to a yellow female, perhaps. He's gorgeous!


Yes I agree, pairing to a red line would be better - no mixed genetics.

Not sure what you're trying to say. IMO 3 cm is no longer a juvie. 
Around here they are often sold at around 2.5 cm (about 4 months). Yes that is kind of small - they were raised in small bottles or cups since 2-3 months.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

JonIsBack said:


> When I can, I'm gonna get a beautiful 100 galon planted tank with a heater and filter and all that stuff. Breed two amazing betta's and keep them all


All of the females. The males will still have a problem with each other, even in 100 gallons. You'll have a bloodbath on your hands.


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