# Dragonscales, iridescents, "diamond eye", breeding



## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

Hello,

I bred bettas 20 years ago and have worked with fish professionally since then. I got back into bettas for my home hobby (no longer doing it professionally) for the pandemic...

I have acquired 3 males and 4 females. I became very interested in the koi and marble as they did not have those when I was working with bettas 20 years ago. 
Also got intot he blue and black orchid and avatr type bettas.

I will get some pics up but, I have a question. I got a "super silver HMPK" male who is gorgeous, but I am wndering, are these fish always dragonscales too? I only just learned about this eye problem possibility and my black female with blue dragon metallic scales over here body has a bunch around her eyes, also the new small black boy with light blue mask... 

So I am thinking about my pairing and I have 3 questions...

Are these fish at risk of getting diamond eye? My super silver full iridescent male? He is glorious and I would love to breed more like him... like a swimming holograph...

Also have a beautiful orange black red and white marble koi boy. And a black female who is supposedly fertile, and then the metllic blue dragon female.

I wanted to pair the silver male to the black female- but could I maybe accidentally breed fish that get diamond eye? I don't want to do that... but I looove the iridescence.

And what if I mated the Koi boy with the black female, or the metallic female. They are all mature now and my rotifer culture is on the way to growing and I have microworms going and a spawning tank sent up. 

Thanks for any guidance!


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Could we get some photos of the finnage and the pairings? Also up close of the eye please  Props to you for being a responsible breeder!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'd rather not guess. Could you please post side view flaring puctures. . . . Silver is not always dragon scale, though most are.

Diamond eye, to my knowledge, is due to over breeding dragons. If you breed to non dragons or partial dragons, you should be able to avoid it.


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

Pics below... sorry had some trouble with my first time post


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

indjo said:


> I'd rather not guess. Could you please post side view flaring puctures. . . . Silver is not always dragon scale, though most are.
> 
> Diamond eye, to my knowledge, is due to over breeding dragons. If you breed to non dragons or partial dragons, you should be able to avoid it.


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

indjo said:


> I'd rather not guess. Could you please post side view flaring puctures. . . . Silver is not always dragon scale, though most are.
> 
> Diamond eye, to my knowledge, is due to over breeding dragons. If you breed to non dragons or partial dragons, you should be able to avoid it.


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

So sorry for bad picture quality but... dont have good photo tank yet. 
My thinking right now is the koi male with the lack lace female because she should supposedly be fertile and probably has marble background if I am correct in my research? I like the koi male and would like more like him with large marbling spots and little bits of iridescence.

Koi male doesn't have perfect ventral fins. But I plan to cull heavily so I can mange the number of jars and I have large predatory fish that can help me with that. I like his little pieces of white, large red spots and the iridescence. I think he is pretty special. 

A second line I was thinking doing the black lace female (since she is very ripe and ready) with the iridescent silver male but he is too smal right now. He and the other black with blue mask male are still small. But I worry about the black with blue mask male getting diamond eye? And the fully blue dragon scale female... her eyes have a lot of the blue around it...

Open to suggestions on best breeding pairs just know I have everything prepared and the only ripe females right now are the dragonscale full blue female and black lace female. And then koi male. But for after that first spawn I want to try something with one of the other males... and I just love the iridescence i think it is my favourite...


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> Could we get some photos of the finnage and the pairings? Also up close of the eye please  Props to you for being a responsible breeder!


Tried to get the eyes there on a top view a bit....


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

I would maybe do the koi x copper with the ones that have scales over their eyes. If you want to do dragonscale x dragonscale, you will need to be prepared to cull heavily (the predatory fish are perfect)


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> I would maybe do the koi x copper with the ones that have scales over their eyes. If you want to do dragonscale x dragonscale, you will need to be prepared to cull heavily (the predatory fish are perfect)


So my question on this is, how can I know which ones will develop diamond eye? Because you breed them at 4-12 months of age but the scales don't grow over eyes until after that from what i have read? So it might be hard to cull out properly or know which ones could be affected?


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

So I would maybe wait longer to breed the dragon scales and raise them up to 6-8 months before breeding as they will be more developed and you will also have more success breeding. And yes, you are right it may be hard to tell which will need to be culled. My best advice to you is if you do go ahead with the breeding, let potential owners know ahead of time about the risks and keep banana leaves on hand as it can help to soften up the eye scales a bit. If anything I would avoid breeding dragonscale x dragonscale and breed the dragonscales to possibly a koi or just a plain white HMPK.


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

KekeTheBettaDoc said:


> So I would maybe wait longer to breed the dragon scales and raise them up to 6-8 months before breeding as they will be more developed and you will also have more success breeding. And yes, you are right it may be hard to tell which will need to be culled. My best advice to you is if you do go ahead with the breeding, let potential owners know ahead of time about the risks and keep banana leaves on hand as it can help to soften up the eye scales a bit. If anything I would avoid breeding dragonscale x dragonscale and breed the dragonscales to possibly a koi or just a plain white HMPK.


So what kind of babies would turn out if I mixed the blue dragonscale female with the orange koi guy? He has a bit of white dragonscaling which is pretty but not too too much, The blue masked guy it really does kind of go over his eyes, but maybe if I selected away from mask but I know that can be hard.

So the iridescent male is he at risk fo his eyes getting covered? Are his scales dragonscales? He is amazing.


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

When I bred my dragon to a koi I got mostly cellophanes with black spots and some white dragon scale. With the marble gene the colors are unpredictable. One of my cello dragons reverse marbled and now he is just cellophane no more dragon scales. The other half of the spawn is black with blue iridescent. Again with the marble gene a few black fry reverse marbled as well and turned cellophane within days. They are six months now? I stopped keeping track. There are more than a few spawn logs that feature koi parents if you’re interested in looking through them.









Betta Spawn Logs


Detail your breeding results here.




www.bettafish.com


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## Cten (Dec 6, 2020)

X skully X said:


> When I bred my dragon to a koi I got mostly cellophanes with black spots and some white dragon scale. With the marble gene the colors are unpredictable. One of my cello dragons reverse marbled and now he is just cellophane no more dragon scales. The other half of the spawn is black with blue iridescent. Again with the marble gene a few black fry reverse marbled as well and turned cellophane within days. They are six months now? I stopped keeping track. There are more than a few spawn logs that feature koi parents if you’re interested in looking through them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh that is so interesting thank you for sharing.

My favourite plan right now is breeding the koi male to the black lace female... I feel like there will be marbling coming from that? I like clear fins in patches but not a lot of cellophane...


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