# Help! My Sick Betta Is Getting Worse :/



## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

Sorry if i ramble a bit...

when i got my betta (5/6 weeks ago) i noticed one of his fins (a little one by the side of his body, i think its called a pectoral fin or something? :/ ) was about half the size of the other. I thought it was just a stunted fin or something but a friend said (about 2 weeks after i got him) she thought it might be finrot so i kept an eye on him to see if it would start to grow back on its own. Apart from that fin he seemed great, he was active and he'd come up to say hello if someone came in the room and he gobbled down all his food.

Then his proper fins started to look a bit tatty round the edges and the bottom one started to look paler. I bought 'King British fin rot & fungus control'. I used it for a week but he seemed to be getting worse, he was looking like a delta/crown tail but when i got him he was a super delta. He was also starting to get a bit lethargic.

So i went and bought 'Myxazin fin rot & bacteria' to use instead. I left it 48 hours between swapping and monday was the last day of the 5 day cource the bottle says to do. However he is looking worse and, although he eats and comes to say hello if he notices your there, he spends a lot of the time at the bottom of the tank with his head buried in my moss ball (i assume because its dark).

His in a 19l (just under 5 gallons) tank with filter, heater (80F), a moss ball and what i think is egeria densa (plant). I also have a couple of ornaments and silk plants i swap and change round when i do a water change (i do a 20% change once a week). Theres also quite a few ramshorn snails in there. The waters fine apart from being a bit hard. I feed him Hikari betta bio-gold pellets 4 times a week, freeze dried bloodworms twice a week and nothing on mondays.

Anyway, what should i do now? should i continue with one of the medicines? or shall i leave him without for a while to see if that helps? Should i turn the tank light off for longer so he gets more sleep? At the moment its off overnight for about 9 hours


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Welcome to the forum and sorry your Betta is not well......

I would start by making some daily 50% water changes for 5 days and stop all medication for now and see if he won't perk up with improved water quality

Then in a 5gal filtered un-cycled tank-I would make twice weekly 50% water changes until the nitrogen cycle has established (4-6weeks) 1-50% water only and 1-50% to include the substrate vacuuming or stir and dip method...once the nitrogen cycle has established-then 1-50% weekly with vacuum should maintain water quality

Make sure the water temp is within a couple of degrees between new and old water so not to cause temp shock and always use a good dechlorinator with any water added to the fish

Give the filter media a swish/rinse in old tank water with a water change a couple of times a month and when the water flow slows to maintain good water flow.

How strong is the water flow-sometimes the water flow itself can be hard on long fin Bettas-besides the stress, it can sometimes cause open wounds and this in turn can become a secondary infection unless water quality is improved and I suspect this may have been an issue due to the tank being new and multi meds used that will kill the good bacteria.....

You may need to baffle the filter-there is a sticky on this site with step-by-step instruction on how to do it

Keep us posted...


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

thanks for replying 

i cycled the tank before i got him using API tap water conditioner and API stress zyme and i use it when changing the water. I put the fresh water in a tall plastic jug and put it in the tank for about 15/20 mins so its a similar temperature

the pH is 8; the nitrite is 0; the nitrate is 20; the amonia is 0

but the water is really hard, could this have an effect? and if so whats the best way to get it down?

i've got the filter on its lowest setting but i agree, i think it still might be to strong. Its 50 l/hour :/ 
I've had it with a spray bar directed at the side of the tank to weaken it but that bottle baffle looks like a good idea so i'll definatley try that


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Usually Betta will adapt to your source water pH and hardness without any problems...its best to have a stable pH and hardness and not try and change these with chemical additives especially in the smaller tanks that need frequent water changes...what is your KH/GH and pH

With nitrate at 20ppm you may need to make some deeper substrate vacuuming....although 20ppm is safe...it is best to try and keep this in the 5-10ppm range....IMO/E...but the stress zyme may be doing this as well...


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

the pH is 8, the GH is 180ppm and KH 240ppm. The GH and KH could be higher though as the test doesn't go higher than that :/

i've done a 50% water change today and put carbon in the filter. A guy on another forum suggested getting aquarium salt in the tank, do you think this might help?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

To re-cap and up-date...

What is going on with the Betta today-signs and symptoms

You don't want to over treat...

Aquarium salt or Epsom salt for short term treatments are great when used for the right reason, dosage and duration.....


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

his a lot less active than a few days ago and spends most of his time lying on the bottom of his tank. Normaly when i do a water change he comes and checks out whats happening and trys to headbuts my hand, today he swam up a few times but mainly just stayed back and watched. His fins aren't getting any better either but its more his change in behaviour that worries me 

heres a photo from 5 weeks ago and one from today: 




















the guy on the other forum said about salt:
_'do a 50% water change to take the meds out or if you have activated carbon(charcoal) put some in your filter and it will take out the meds.
Next change 25% of his water daily and add aquarium salt,or epsom salt or uniodated rock salt.use a dosage of 1 teaspoon a gallon and add the salt gradualy over a few days.remember to disolve the salt in water first then add the saltwater to the tank.
Do the daily parcial water changes for a week and keep the temp at 80.hopefully it will help.
A word of warning , dont use salt for more than 10 days as it will cause kidney probelems in your betta.
Salt doesnt evaporate so you have to take it out by doing partial water changes.'_


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

That is pretty close to the treatment I do when I do salt treatment-except I QT in a small container that can be floated in the heated tank and maintain a water temp in the 76-77F range for bacterial reason and pre-mix the aquarium salt 1tsp/gal in a jug of dechlorinated water to make 100% daily water changes for 10 days...I also add tannins to the pre-mixed treatment water for added antibacterial/fungal benefits and stress reliever as well as cover the QT with a plastic veggie wrap to maintain warm humid air above the water for the labyrinth organ...... to cover as many bases as I can with as little chemical additives as possible and I never use harsh chemical due to the negative affect it can have on both the fish and the environment......

A thing to remember is the healing process takes time and improved nutrition is also important in the healing and re-growth of fins-with high protein foods fed in small amounts several times a day.

You also have to find the root cause of the problem and fix that...often this is environment related...one of the best medications for fish...is fresh dechlorinated water, good nutrition and time.....with the understanding that often fin may never look the same or return to their full glory.....the amount of damage play a role...... as does the age and general overall heath of the fish....if this Betta came from poor conditions you can also have internal organ involvement and this can affect healing process-being a short lived fish to start and sometimes with poor breeding/genetic can also be a factor...building a strong immune response with improved conditions is the best first step and then the fish can re-build damaged tissue but they have to be given the tools....since they are in a closed system it is up to us to provide them with the tools they need.......

Natural treatments-treat the whole system-fish-water-as well as the offending pathogen-you create an environment that encourages strong immune response in the fish-yet creates and environment that is difficult for the offending pathogen to thrive/multiply without harming the fish or creating poor water quality......it can sometimes be a fine line......or rock and hard place...lol.....

You can also over treat and this can be as- if not more harmful as no treatment in some cases.....the simple systems can become toxic and the medication end up being the cause of death.....

Freshwater fish thrive with fresh water and to be a good keeper of fish you must first be a good keeper of water......


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## bamsuddenimpact (Jan 25, 2011)

I could be wrong, but a PH of 8.0 is extremely high. Bettas generally need 6.5-7.5 with a preference of 6.8-7.2?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

My pH is over 8 and my KH and GH are over 300...I have really hard well water....and I have never had any problems keeping or even spawning Betta...generally-the Betta splendens will adapt to your pH and hardness and if you think about it they really don't have a normal range anyway....these are man made fish or domesticated.....our tanks are the natural habitat for this fish....


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

i'm not sure what the root cause could be  but i'm going to keep doing a part water change everyday and spread his food out over several meals a day instead of just one. The lid of the tank keeps the air pretty warm and humid. Shall i get some driftwood for the tank? to release tannins?
I got him from my lfs so i don't know anything about his genetics or background before :/ The lfs seemed to have them in pretty good conditions though.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

sukiesstar said:


> thanks for replying
> 
> i cycled the tank before i got him using API tap water conditioner and API stress zyme and i use it when changing the water. I put the fresh water in a tall plastic jug and put it in the tank for about 15/20 mins so its a similar temperature
> 
> ...


Cycling is a 4-6 week long process where ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria build up. Just adding water conditioner doesn't to that. :/


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

the stress zyme is a biological filteration booster and i had the tank set up for a few weeks before getting him  and i tested the water before i got him and it seemed fine


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well unless you had an ammonia source your tank didn't cycle.


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

i've tested the water every week with no changes :/


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

It doesn't matter. No ammonia, no cycle. The reason there were no changes is because there was nothing too change. Without ammonia to feed them, the bacteria dies.

What you bought is a booster, which means it can help the process, not start it.


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

but it was fine after getting him and i tested the water every week :/ surely i'd have noticed a change by now?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

What are the water parameters/levels?


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

do you know whether Kanamycin Sulfate would be effective? apparently its good for helping cure severe finrot :/ i'm not sure where i'd be able to get it in the uk though


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I am not sure about that. The safest way to treat fin rot is daily 50% water changes and a proper dose of aquarium salt.

What are your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels?


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

nitrite and ammonia are 0, nitrate is 20 :/ i did a 50% water change thursday and 25% changes everyday since, i'm going to put some salt in today so hope fully that will help


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your fish. That picture is so sad!

I second the idea about floating him in a smaller container within a heated tank and concentrating on many many water changes with the added salt. One of my Bettas is a chronic tail biter and this is what I did in the beginning and it really sped up the healing. Also if you can get IALs or some Betta Spa, that would be a good idea as well....

For sure over medicating can make things worse. However if things don't change within a few weeks, I would consider Maracyn-Two. This works for many people. Although the water changes and salt SHOULD help. 

Hope he gets better soon!


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

thanks  at the moment his in his own tank (about 4.5 gallons) with a filter and heater and doing 25% water changes everyday; would keeping him in a smaller container with 100% water changes be better for him then? :/


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

sukiesstar said:


> thanks  at the moment his in his own tank (about 4.5 gallons) with a filter and heater and doing 25% water changes everyday; would keeping him in a smaller container with 100% water changes be better for him then? :/



If things don't change I would for sure consider it. The only problem is that if your fish isn't used to it, he may stress out a bit, and stress is never good. It depends on the temperament of the fish, really, and they do get used to it eventually;-) So while some may disagree, I have always had better luck with the 100% water changes. Even 100% every other day, and 50% in between. I use Betta Spa (IAL) when I keep my fish in smaller containers. It's wonderful for healing and also seems to really keep Ammonia down so you can go longer between water changes. Not to mention with a smaller container, it is a bit easier to change and you can monitor his condition quite closely.


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

i am worried that 100% water changes would stress him out a bit :/ and at least with keeping him in the bigger tank it has the filter as well as the part water changes and the drift wood releasing tannins, if adding salt doesn't help i might try it


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

his still getting worse, his hardly eating, the few times he trys to eat he tends to spit it back out again :/ and his right gill is inflamed


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

i've turned off the filter in the tank as his got a lot worse in the last couple of hours and i didn't want even the slightest flow to stress him out more. to be honest, i'll be surprised if he makes it through the night judging by how much worse he is now, he can hardly swim, just now he was at the top of the tank kind of drifting along to get air then he just let himself fall untill he landed on his bridge ornament which is where he still is. i've never seen him lie on it before today :/


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would get him back in QT and Epsom salt 2tsp/gal and the tannin with the plastic veggie wrap in a heated tank 76-77F area


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## sukiesstar (Jan 26, 2011)

unfortuantly he died about an hour after my last post :'(

Thank you all for your help, i really appreciate it


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

sukiesstar said:


> unfortuantly he died about an hour after my last post :'(
> 
> Thank you all for your help, i really appreciate it


I am so sorry to hear that:-(


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

You tried...that all you can do...sorry for your loss.....


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