# Flushing live fish.



## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Apparently You Tube doesn't recognize animal cruelty when it comes to fish. There are several videos of bettas being fought and of live fish being flushed into septic systems, manhandled in sinks and squeezed into fists, stuffed in chemical filled water and generally tortured. I must have reported at least 15 of them. So far, not one has even been TOUCHED by a mod.

I guess if it's not fuzzy, it can't be abused.


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## celine18 (Sep 25, 2010)

oh, i know, its terrible!! so many people don't consider fish to be as "important" as other pets, since they're so cheap and "disposable". i think that especially goes for bettas, since none of the walmarts around me have aquarium fish anymore, but they still carry bettas. do they think that bettas dont deserve the same care as those other fish? if the other fish weren't properly cared for, to the level where they were removed from the store, i don't think its right that bettas should be exempt from that salvation.

i would love for PETA to get all over this, but they have other abused animals to save. (please note the sarcasm)


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

I know. I'm just disgusted. Seriously disgusted. What kind of messed up person murders a live animal, wholly dependent on them for care, and then FILMS it and posts it for other people to see? It only makes me more ill that most of these idiots have gaggles of their friends giggling in the background while they do this. I just want to slap the grins off their faces.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

Ugh stuff like that makes me sick. Just because it doesn't have a voice to scream with doesn't mean it can't feel pain. :c
Poor, poor bettas.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

There's one of someone getting a live betta and frying the poor guy :'(


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## HilaryJo (Sep 23, 2010)

My mom works at the Walmart customer service desk and when live fish are returned they're suppose to flush them!!!!!!!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Well PETA and ASPCA do have more important things to worry about. Sorry if I offend but cats and dogs and horses are more important than fish. They have a much stronger sense of pain and emotion than fish do. Not to mention that the money put into running an operation to save fish would be waaay more than the fish are worth.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

HilaryJo said:


> My mom works at the Walmart customer service desk and when live fish are returned they're suppose to flush them!!!!!!!


I've seen dead fish in trash cans all over the stores.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> Well PETA and ASPCA do have more important things to worry about. Sorry if I offend but cats and dogs and horses are more important than fish. They have a much stronger sense of pain and emotion than fish do. Not to mention that the money put into running an operation to save fish would be waaay more than the fish are worth.


I have to politely disagree. Last I heard, they were discovering that "lower" animals are more and more sensitive and emotive than we ever knew. Who decides what animal is more important? If you have a pet fish, you have agreed to take care of that animal and respect it, and it is worth your time to do so. If the people in those videos think fish are unimportant and can be thrown away like tissues, then they shouldn't have fish.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

MrVampire181 said:


> There's one of someone getting a live betta and frying the poor guy :'(


Report that trash. It's just disgusting.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

I once read a saying (on another forum) that goes:

"We weep for a bird's cry, but not for a fish's blood. Blessed are those with a voice."

Seems to be true.


...I hate people.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh don't mention peta! ;P they would solve it by continuing to say we should never have pets! 
*“*In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.*” -Ingrid Newkirk
*
She would actually hate us all, we keep animals and some of us BREED them! :O 


It sucks how people really don't know or acknowledge the life of animals like fish.. With education comes care. When enough people know about their intelligence, needs, and the joys they bring, they will come around. People are mostly just ignorant. And it's a bad thing when a violent kid is ignorant!!


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes, I agree. PETA is way to radical for me. I just don't like to see people abusing the animals they're supposed to care for, that's all.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

I hear it from my friends all the time about "why do you keep FISH? Why don't you get a ferret or something?"

People don't get it.

And DONT get me started on PETA. They're way too extreme for their own good.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Fish are so cute!  My favorite thing about going to the beach is when they poke my toes! 

It's sad, but an inevitable part of life until people learn more about animals. Reptiles suffer the same fate, honestly. It's the poor silent scaley cuties that get hurt!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that don't value the lives of animals the way we do here. To a lot of people the value of a fish's life is maybe slightly higher than a bug's life. What scares me is what would happen to my fish if something happened to me. My brother or my mom would probably flush them than to take the time to find homes for them.


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## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

I dislike PETA greatly and their effort to save fish was flat out stupidity. They called them Sea Kittens and made up the most ridicilious stories for why people should not eat fish ect~ 

Just go and read them and see if you can take them seriously. 

That aside though it really is such a shame the way people treat fish :c Some fish die from owners not understanding their care [i.e 1/2 gallon tanks] and its a real shame and hopefully can be lessened but out right abuse is disgusting.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

The world needs more people like the ones on this forum. I bet the combined efforts of people here have put a huge dent in the betta/fish mistreatment problem. I love reading the rescue stories you guys post, and watching your fish brighten up and thrive! 
I'm not sure with the way things are going that the issues they have in petstores, and the misinformation they give to potential owners will ever be stopped entirely, but it's always so great to see that some are getting great homes.


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

I just lol'd at the whole "sea kittens" thing... really? That's kind of missing the point of a fish. Trying to make them seem cuddly by comparing them to kittens. They're fish. They are not kittens. They still deserve respect though. PETA has its priorities messed up. Hopefully I don't offend anyone by saying that but I agree with y'all, they're just too extreme for me!


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## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

You can't change the stores - what you have to do is change the /people/. The more the masses become educated the less they will buy the torture tanks. When the venue on those go down the stores will seek to create profit by supplying what is in demand and shift their attention onto whatever will be making them money.

Maybe we should start to make proper YouTube videos for one. There are so many out there that are just incorrect to a point of negligence. If we put more correct info out there in an easy to digest manor maybe more people would know.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

I've seen several vids of "two male bettas living peacefully" ... where both males stay on separate sides of the tank and look more stressed than I've ever seen. Siamese FIGHTING fish has a meaning.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

I saw a youtube video of a kid who thought he was the coolest guy ever because he had 2 males and a female living peacefully in a cup. But they all looked half dead to me. Oh but the owner was so proud!


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## windfire (May 25, 2010)

what is that saying "take care of the little things and the larger ones will follow" as someone that has owned all sorts from horses to hamsters, cats to chickens dogs and snakes and birds i really dont see one as more special than the others. i know of a woman who does raiki on my abused lab X and she does raiki on her clown knife fish. fish are friends hehe couldn resists, if you buy em you take responsibility for em and that really applies to any animal you buy these days.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would like to call to the parent of the kids who does it.I don't think any parent would like the child to do this even if kids are old. And what example it give to other children who watching that. And also if that person does it to fish he probably have no problem to do it to the cat or dog. Even if it fish it still cruel. Also I think if store management have fish in the their store don't u think they are responsible to take care of them. They responsible for everything else even not alive. I would not want my son able to do that it sick. I wish the low would punish them.


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

I hate stuff like this! >=[ Why are people so stupid?


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## Jayy (Dec 23, 2009)

I HATE things and people like this. It's makes me want to yell at them until they understand that fish need to be treated like all other animals. How would you feel if someone put in house barely big enought to fit your bed?? and threw posion on you that burned your skin. Only feeding you twice a week and not enough at that. How would that make YOU fell??


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

I agree on posting accurate youtube videos out there! Most important thing to remember: include "WHY" everything is important! People won't listen if you just say "you need a bigger tank!", if we can create videos that explain why they are needed, and how it helps the owner as well(less water changes, happier fish/prettier colors, etc.) then people will come around and these videos will be very recommended  

Comparisons work good as well. Pictures of a fish who has spent time in a small bowl, maybe the same fish in a larger tank(You know, those of us who didn't do our research first/saved a fish from a not-so-good owner), and maybe even videos showing activity differences between a small cold bowl and a heated tank :O they are so pretty when they swim around!

most people I know say bettas are 'depressing' cause they don't move... Lets show them that they can and WILL happily swim if treated right!


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## celine18 (Sep 25, 2010)

FuulieQ said:


> I have to politely disagree. Last I heard, they were discovering that "lower" animals are more and more sensitive and emotive than we ever knew. Who decides what animal is more important? If you have a pet fish, you have agreed to take care of that animal and respect it, and it is worth your time to do so. If the people in those videos think fish are unimportant and can be thrown away like tissues, then they shouldn't have fish.


well said! it wouldnt kill PETA to do a little bit for fish.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

celine18 said:


> well said! it wouldnt kill PETA to do a little bit for fish.


It's not PETA or the HSUS that we need to rely on. Giant organizations almost guarantee more harm than good. If they were in charge, they'd cull every betta in every petstore, just look at how many of the healthy dogs and cats they kill at their facilities anyway! It's disgusting! They probably think it's better a fish gets flushed then stay in a tank anyway.


The people who need to lead the way are people like us. Pet owners, animal lovers. Not animal rights activists, we want to ensure animal WELFARE, not rights. There is a difference. Animal rights means 'liberation of all animals', making pets a thing of the past. Releasing or killing pets that cannot survive in the wild. Animal welfare means keeping those animals alive and as happy as they can possibly be! 

We are the people who are and will encourage and teach people! The change is happening, slowly, but it is. It already happened with goldfish, turtles, and birds(you'd be surprised how SMALL the cages that were recommended you keep parrots in years ago!).

Now we are teaching people about bettas, hermit crabs, and iguanas.. Step by step we're getting there!

Honestly it's forums like this that are helping! People have easy internet access in most places, and with the wonders of google(instead of the search and purchase of a book that might be outdated) and the fact that people are already used to 'googling' things they don't know...People are figuring it out! The fact that people come here, even if they come here with tiny bowls means they want to learn and help! They help their friends and etc. etc. word gets around!


I have hope! It sucks now, but it will get better! We just have to keep doing what we're doing I think!  Already some pet stores are changing their methods! The big chains aren't as much(like I said..big companies and organizations..) but the stores frequented by serious hobbyists are, and the word is spreading.

But I dunno. I am naive about many things, and I have a very positive look on life for someone my age. Things will never change totally--that's like dreaming of a world without war and disease. There is disease of the mind and soul, and there will always be someone out their flushing a fish, the same as there is someone out their abusing their animals, the same as there are still puppy mills.. But as the 'average' population learns, things like this can be avoided. Everyone knows what a happy puppy looks like! That's how puppy mills are STOPPED! EDUCATED people see the suffering, and they fix it. People don't know what a healthy fish looks like--I've seen people think dropsy is just a cool type of scale that sticks out neat! But when people do know what a happy fish looks like..bad breeders and the like will begin to be stopped as well!

It will happen! :] If we make it happen!


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

I've said it once, I'll say it again; HSUS is the REAL enemy you need to look out for. They parade behind their commercials and requests for money pretending they're actually making a difference, when in reality all of their money goes to their pockets. If you want to donate, do it locally. Ignore the t-shirt or cup or whatever they're offering, and send the money where it counts. At least PETA out and out admits their insanity (well, maybe not, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it).

Back on topic, it really does suck when you see these things. I've recently decided to stop talking about my fish in public because no matter what, some people just do not believe you. They think you're crazy because you have fish. I was telling my friend how I play with my bettas and it seems to make them happier, and a girl goes "You know it's a fish, right?" (The look on her face when she said this makes me smile. I've never seen a woman act more like a horse :3) I just looked at her and said, "If you've never had a fish, you can't understand." When she said she had fish, I just wanted to add, "Healthy fish". Being the shy person I am, I didn't, but the truth is just there. People won't believe what they don't want to. They don't want to admit that the fish they just killed had more personality than they do. Don't want to realize they were torturing a small animal to death. To them, ignorance is bliss.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

I really would make a video about how to care for bettas if I had the right equipment. My tank's not that spectacular right now, either.  Stupid ugly silk plant in the corner waiting to be replaced.


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## ForbiddenSecrets (Aug 15, 2010)

FuulieQ said:


> I really would make a video about how to care for bettas if I had the right equipment. My tank's not that spectacular right now, either.  Stupid ugly silk plant in the corner waiting to be replaced.


Just use windows move maker, on-line photos of do's and don'ts, and text instead of a voice. A proper video with out complicated media c:


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Those videos with text onstead of an actual voice annoy the hell out of me. Never wach em. What is it with people being terrified of hearing their own voice?

I was on youtube and saw a huge fancy goldfish being ripped apart alive by a school of piranhas over 2 minutes or so D: I mean really? For the price that person paid for the fancy goldfish you could have bough 20 feeders. They would probably have suffered alot less too since their deaths would have been quick and instantaneous as they are way smaller. Actually, i think piranhas will accept dead food too... Im disgusted that I actually watched the whole thing... And the song... I think they tried to make it comical...


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## Rawriie (Sep 6, 2010)

Revolting. Someone needs to do something about it. Not just talk, but act.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

> Those videos with text onstead of an actual voice annoy the hell out of me. Never wach em. What is it with people being terrified of hearing their own voice?
> 
> I was on youtube and saw a huge fancy goldfish being ripped apart alive by a school of piranhas over 2 minutes or so D: I mean really? For the price that person paid for the fancy goldfish you could have bough 20 feeders. They would probably have suffered alot less too since their deaths would have been quick and instantaneous as they are way smaller. Actually, i think piranhas will accept dead food too... Im disgusted that I actually watched the whole thing... And the song... I think they tried to make it comical...


you know what the kicker is? Pirannahs are omnivores and mainly eat plants and veggies in the wild. They prefer plants over live food, and if presented with both while well cared for, guess which one they'd more than likely choose? the plants 

Flushing fish, even dead fish, is horrible to me. People are so sick to do what they do, and few people do anything about it! It's incredible how cruel some morons are.

I agree with the video idea. Wouldn't it be awesome if people volunteered to make a series of sorts on the proper care of fish and such, and adressed issues, with one person making one video each? I mean there are so many well informed people here that could do just that and make so many videos, and it wouldn't be that much of a drain on their time too.

Rawrie: Great point.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

OH MY GOODNESS> ANOTHER PIRANHA VID! This time it was a live mouse! :'( isnt there a way to report vids on youtube?


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## TigerLily (Sep 17, 2009)

JKfish said:


> I agree with the video idea. Wouldn't it be awesome if people volunteered to make a series of sorts on the proper care of fish and such, and adressed issues, with one person making one video each? I mean there are so many well informed people here that could do just that and make so many videos, and it wouldn't be that much of a drain on their time too.
> 
> Rawrie: Great point.


It sounds like a great idea to me and I think it could be a good forum project. Maybe we could start a thread for it.
We would need a list of video topics to cover, then we could divide them up among members who are willing to do videos.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

TigerLily said:


> It sounds like a great idea to me and I think it could be a good forum project. Maybe we could start a thread for it.
> We would need a list of video topics to cover, then we could divide them up among members who are willing to do videos.


EXCELLENT IDEA. I would gladly make a vid. We could post links to them in the betta care threads too (people seem to be less confused with vids than with words)


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'll ask the admin about a bettafish youtube channel. A group of people could work on each major section of the forum: Care, Breeding, Disease. We could make several "sticky" vids and our own vids.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

True.

i think I'm going to start a quick thread to get people's names down who are interesting in pitching in, and also some possible topics to assign to different people.


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

this makes me sick, ive seen some of them..... there was one saying that there betta was sick just because it wasnt fighting..... I JUST WANT TO PUNCH THEM!!


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

oooo! I WANT TO BE IN THIS PROJECT! i will do breeding!  i dont have to any thing but sicknesses..... im not that good in that stuff.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

BettaGirl: I set up another thread called : Forum Project Sign Up 

I think someone else has already claimed breeding :| Though, there are so many ways to breed you could technically do another one if your way is very different from the other person's


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## BettaGirl290 (Jul 29, 2010)

oooook, i will send you one, and ok i guess i could do something else, just NOT sicknesses, i told you i know little about that........ thats why i has ppl like u! XD


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## anglnarnld (Aug 27, 2010)

I wanna report the one when they squeeze and put them in chemical water too! Can I have some help finding it guys??


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## Aluyasha (Sep 2, 2010)

I dont understand how some people can get enjoyment out of torturing and killing things. Maybe if they never owned pets and did not put in any thought about what animals feel you would think at the most those people would just not care to own animals. But when does abuse turn into 'fun'?
When does "I do not care to own a dog or a fish so I just wont get one" turn into "Hey lets skin a puppy or boil a goldfish"?
I just cannot understand what part of the human mind wants you to do those things?


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## BettaBuddi1221 (Jul 21, 2010)

with the video I can't post a thing on you tube but I can give ideas and possibly scripts.


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## Tsuhei (Nov 26, 2010)

I know! It's totally disgusting. I was actually unfortunate enough to find a video of some drunk college students actually swallowing a betta fish. The guy that did it immediately vomited into the toilet.

"OH IT'S STILL ALIVE!"

And had the nerve to post something along the lines of this in the comment bar: No betta fishes were harmed in the making of this video 

I can't believe people sometimes.


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## LikeDiscoSuperfly (Oct 18, 2010)

nochoramet said:


> Ugh stuff like that makes me sick. Just because it doesn't have a voice to scream with doesn't mean it can't feel pain. :c
> Poor, poor bettas.


You stole the words right from my mouth. I could not agree more!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

In case anyone forgot, it is against the forum rules to post videos depicting animal abuse and cruelty which, of course, includes fish. Some of the things people do to animals is just horrifying.


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