# Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd we have babies!



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

Woke up to little fish darting around and dad picking them up and shooting some back up to the nest. Seems like he is still picking up eggs and shooting them up too. So is my next play to leave him in until no more eggs falling? This morning I swabbed some microworms from the sides of my culture and dipped that Q-Tip into the tank. I tried to put that as close to the nest as possible which is where the babies seem to be hanging out. Anything I should do to promote them finding the microworms? Any other tips going forward for the week would be great.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You should leave him in as long as you can if he's a good dad, that will help promote the fry into being more passive than aggressive. He'll help feed the fry too by picking up the food and basically grinding it up for them 

The fry won't eat for the first two days usually because they're still absorbing their yolk so they won't eat until they're horizontally swimming at least.


----------



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

OK. Don't bother feeding them for another day or two; you'll just pollute the water. Wait to take him out for the same amount of time.

What you want to be looking at are the little tails in the nest. While they are pointed down, the fry can't swim on their own. They need their dad to take care of them for now. In a couple of days, they will turn sideways O-- and start moving around on their own. When the majority of them are free-swimming like that, lure poppa away with a bit of food, and take him out. You can start feeding the babies at that point.


----------



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Actually +1 on Lilnaugrim on how long to leave Daddy in. If you think he's not eating the fry, his presence is beneficial for his young. But it's safe in general to remove him once they're swimming.


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

Oddly...a bunch are swimming and darting around horizontally but some are still eggs he is picking up and shooting up. The only reason I fed was because I figured the swimmers would be ready to eat since the yolk sac is done?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

hrutan said:


> Actually +1 on Lilnaugrim on how long to leave Daddy in. If you think he's not eating the fry, his presence is beneficial for his young. But it's safe in general to remove him once they're swimming.


Oh yes, I do agree too. If he's not being the best daddy then it's perfectly fine to take him out once they are free-swimming ^_^

If those eggs haven't hatched yet then they probably aren't fertilized then....they all should hatch relatively around the same time give or take an hour or two. They usually spend about a day vertical in the nest while daddy picks them up. Then after that they're horizontal but still most are still consuming their yolk. It's usually 2 days after they've hatched that you can start feeding.

If you want to start feeding now, you can but make sure you take out uneaten worms and do a small water change. Make sure you drip the water in!! Otherwise you'll shock and kill your fry >.<


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

Ok so he seems to be a good dad...we'll leave him in a little longer.

Worms are already in but I won't be adding any for 2 more days. I will assume that any eggs that are not hatched by tonight are just unfertilized. I'll aim to leave dad in there until Sunday or so. I'll aim to drip in some fresh water by end of week. Right now the tank is 1/2 full so I'll slowly drip in a cup or so a day until we're filled all the way up. 

Is it ok to disturb the bubble nest in a day or two considering we have free swimmers now?


----------



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It's possible they are unfertilized, but...how long was the female in? Sometimes the pair will spawn multiple times if left undisturbed.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Did you read through all the stickies we have in this section on raising the fry and the water changes and all?


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

The female was in there for about 5-7 days. I believe you are correct that they spawned a few times. She was removed this morning.


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Did you read through all the stickies we have in this section on raising the fry and the water changes and all?


Read them? They are committed to memory...sing them in the shower...but of course we need to adjust case-by-case.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

haha, okay! Just wanted to make sure is all ^_^


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

The only step I haven't taken, which I have read on multiple sites, is to treat the tank with an anti-fungal. I have a ton of java moss and the water is very clear...not sure if that means anything when it comes to fungal infections but that is something I have not done. Makes me think it wouldn't hurt to get some anti-fungal and give dose or half dose today.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Instead of anti-fungal stuff you can use tannins which will help the babies more than anti-fungal meds would since it's much more natural for them. It may lower your pH a teeny bit but usually it doesn't alter it THAT much. You can either use IAL leaves, Oak leaves or even Rooibos tea which is an herbal tea with no caffeine in it. You can't just get any tea though, nothing we caffeine or even de-caf will do, has to bee Rooibos. But you just steep the tea in hot water, let it cool down and add that to the tank just a little bit or a lot depending on how much tannins you want in the water


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

I have a bottle of the IAL leave extract. Its older (been on my shelf 2 years but I don't think that should effectuate its efficacy) but I could redose the tank with that. Used it once before spawning...shall I add a hair and slowly dose the tank with that?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, that would work fine 

I mean, you can always use the anti-fungal stuff if you wanted to, just wanted to give you the option is all!


----------



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The usual medicine for fry would be Methylene Blue, but I personally see no point in using it if you don't need to. Some people do use it as a preventative. But it dyes the water (and anything plastic or rubber or silicone) blue and inhibits the biological filter.

Tannins are MUCH better. The best preventative is simply keeping the water clean...


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

+1 to hrutan ;-)


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

Awesome - I did a small dose of tannins last night and will do a small dose tonight which should bring us up to correct dose.

Right now my fear is dad being too hungry and deciding to eat babies. Has anyone ever pulled the dad for a day just to feed him well and then put him back?


----------



## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I feed him while he's in there, if he'll eat.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes, feed while he's in there, he may or may not eat depending on how intent he is on his work. I would fear that if you removed him and put him back, he wouldn't care for the fry again, Betta's are strange like that.


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

So dad got aggressive while I was away...not sure if he ate a lot or not but he ate some and I too saw him take one in his mouth that never came out.

Now the babies are on their own. I believe theres about 20-30 babies. Most are vertical or semi-vertical at the top or horizontal along the surface of the tank. I have a lot of java moss keeping the water oxygenated so I haven't run the air stone yet. So now I am just waiting a couple more days before introducing microworms? I got tannins in there. Anything else I should be doing? I could introduce the air stone with a very gentle flow but it may still be too disturbing right now.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can start feeding now then, they may or may not take it; each spawn is a little different. If you do feed and they don't eat within the hour, make sure to take the worms out. You don't really need the airstone, you can use a sponge filter though; usually you'd use a cycled one so that the babies can have a stable tank rather than fluctuating all the time when you do water changes. Not sure if that all made sense lol


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> You can start feeding now then, they may or may not take it; each spawn is a little different. If you do feed and they don't eat within the hour, make sure to take the worms out. You don't really need the airstone, you can use a sponge filter though; usually you'd use a cycled one so that the babies can have a stable tank rather than fluctuating all the time when you do water changes. Not sure if that all made sense lol


Right now I need to slowly bring the water level up to the top. Hopefully I can do that 1 cup a day and then when its up I will do a partial change. 

If I feed the worms and they don't eat it how do I pull them out? Usually they are all over the floor of the tank. Last time I fed microworms the dad ate them but they stayed alive 2-3 days. I couldn't leave them in there 2-3 days again?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No, don't leave them because the ones that will die will foul your water since you don't have any sort of filter system. Even if you did have a filter system, better to take them out. I use airline tubing for a mini siphon and just suck up the bottom, occasionally I suck up a fry too though, usually they are okay if I pick them out of the bucket with a small pipette and put them back in the tank though, I think it's a little traumatizing though.


----------



## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

TraceysBabies said:


> Woke up to little fish darting around and dad picking them up and shooting some back up to the nest. Seems like he is still picking up eggs and shooting them up too. So is my next play to leave him in until no more eggs falling? This morning I swabbed some microworms from the sides of my culture and dipped that Q-Tip into the tank. I tried to put that as close to the nest as possible which is where the babies seem to be hanging out. Anything I should do to promote them finding the microworms? Any other tips going forward for the week would be great.


 
I am so excited for you! If I had the room, time, and set up I'd give it a try again. Haven't bred bettas since I was a teen. I remember it being so much fun, and so exciting watching them develop.

Please post some pics showing their progress!


----------



## Bikeridinguckgirl14 (Oct 22, 2013)

^+1 to lil


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

Updates:

So its been roughly 1-1.5 weeks. I believe there are a max of 10 babies and a minimum of 3. Thats about the range I've seen since they were born. There is a huge mass of Java Moss in the tank, and I am wondering if they maybe camp out in the moss and don't surface as often. Seems to me there is everything they need in the Java Moss. 

I feed microworms. I've never seen they actually go for a microworm but they're still alive and look to be growing so I think nature takes over at some point and they eat.

I have been slowly raising the water level, using 24 hour aged water. Should be all the way to the top of the tank in the next week. I add a few drops of tannins when I add water. 

Other than that things seem stable. Thanks to the plants the water is crystal clear. The bubble makes gentle bubbles. Heater is at 80.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Cool, sounds like everything's going well. Have any pictures of the kids? lol


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

The photography situation has been less successful than the breeding process. The iPhone 5 camera just doesn't seem to think the babies are something to focus on. I think that in a week they should be big enough (hopefully things go smoothly and they're still around!).


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah yeah, I know what you mean lol. I still have the Envy II so that camera REALLY sucks! At least I have my digital one still  Well hopefully they'll be big enough soon! You'll start changing water soon, yes?


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

I still don't have the water all the way up. Theres about 3 inches of room for new water. Should I get it up to the top in the next week and then wait a week, and then do a water change? The ratio of plant to water is very high so I don't think water quality is an immediate issue. Have a couple tiny snails in there consuming uneaten foods.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Eh, I'd still be very leery about not doing a water change so late. I've always been told water change! water change! water change! But if you feel like this method will work for you, then by all means, I'd love to see it work too. I assume they'll grow slower, that's part of doing water changes is you'll bump up the speed of growth in your fry as well.


----------



## TraceysBabies (Nov 10, 2014)

My fear is adding water too quick. So that is why I add like 1/2 quart a day or 2. Perhaps I could remove a quart and add 2 quarts tonight. Now that they are over a week old I assume more hardy to this. Perhaps I could just fill it up all the way tonight and then change in a couple days once they are more acclimated? I fear shocking the little baby system, thats all.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's why you use a drip acclimation system which you can drip in all throughout the day. I rest my bucket on top of the tank with aged water and use an airline and a valve regulator or you can just tie the tube up in a knot or two to get about 1 or 2 drips per second and let it drip it in all day. I anchor the other end down in the bucket with a small river stone I got from wal-mart in a pack of like 15 or so. I let it go all day and by the time I come home from work, it's ready for a water change again.

Even the stickies say that the first week you can fill up the tank but after that you should do water changes around 25-50% daily.


----------

