# Neon Tetras!!



## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

I just bought my lonely male VT betta, Zuko, a neon tetra yesterday from Petsmart  i'm off to get 2 or 3 more cause neon tetras need to be in schools and am also going to buy zuko and his friends a bigger tank, a 5gal.(he's now in a 2.5gal).  I went to walmart(NEVER BUY FISH FROM THERE!!!) yesterday and there was a wrong tag and i accidentally bought a glofish aka Danio, which bettas and danios harass each other. so right now, i have a brght pink glofish that is scared outta their mind because Zuko is nipping, chasing, and flaring at him/her. Poor little fella. I'm hoping the Danio will try to school with the other tetras once i get them; do you think he/she will?
Also, the Tetra, Sokka, is really scared and staring at his reflection; thinking it's another tetra. I am off to get him more friends and hopefully he will fine then. But i have a problem i'm worried about... they aren't eating!!! Well, Zuko is perfectly fine. but the glofish, Katara, and Tetra, Sokka, aren't eating at all!!! is this b/c they're scared? will they eventually eat??? i've been trying so many times to feed them.  do you think once Sokka has friends around, he will eat with them? please help i need as much info as possible!!


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## isochronism (Nov 24, 2012)

Have ever been schooled yourself???


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

isochronism said:


> Have ever been schooled yourself???


what?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

You've definitely gotten into a big of a pickle here....Lets see what we can do about straightening things out a little. 

First of all, your Glofish and tetra are likely not eating because they're stressed being stuck in such a small and I assume uncycled space without friends with an aggressive male betta who is likely harassing them both. Is your tank filtered? Heated? If so, what is the current temp?

But you have a planned upgrade, and you do get that tetras need to school, so you've got the right idea.....however, in order to house a proper school of any small tetra species like neon, with or without a betta, you will need at least a 10 gallon with a minimum of 5-6 tetras for a school. Your Glofish will not school with your neons however, and even in a 10 gallon a proper neon school of 5-6 with your betta maxes out your stocking. In order to provide enough space for two proper schools of fish, you're looking at a 20-30 gallon at least. 

However as you stated Glofish, the genetically altered form of a Zebra Danio, aren't good tankmates for bettas as they are very quick and nippy. I would highly suggest just returning your glofish, or seeing if you can find someone to house him for you.
Unless you can bump that 5 gallon upgrade up to a 10 gallon, it would be best to go ahead and return/rehome the neon as well. 5 gallons is just not enough space to support a proper school along with a betta I'm afraid.


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## isochronism (Nov 24, 2012)

It's like you and a young (angry) Mike Tyson together in an elevator in Brooklyn NY.....


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> You've definitely gotten into a big of a pickle here....Lets see what we can do about straightening things out a little.
> 
> First of all, your Glofish and tetra are likely not eating because they're stressed being stuck in such a small and I assume uncycled space without friends with an aggressive male betta who is likely harassing them both. Is your tank filtered? Heated? If so, what is the current temp?
> 
> ...


yes, i have a heater and a filter, as of right now; the temp is 78. i just brought home 2 more neon tetras and the other tetra is SO happy! The lady at petsmart who worked in the fish department said a school of at least 3...they're staying in formation and are so happy! the Danio actually is in the school too lol which gave me a suprise.. and; they're eating!!!! xD Zuko seems to enjoy the company, except for the spastic Danio who won't stop swimming hahaa. but now, everyone seems perfectly fine. Yah i've been searching as much as possible to find a good tank.... i found a 5.5gal at petsmart... would that work?


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Well....you're definitely way way overstocked in that 2.5 gallon. Even with a single fish its very difficult to establish a stable cycle in that size of a tank, and with five you are going to be running into some MAJOR ammonia issues within the next couple of days. For now, make 50-75% partial changes daily and treat with a good conditioner like prime to help battle the ammonia. If you can, at the very least pick up a liquid ammonia test so you can keep an eye on that, though a full kit would be better if you can get your hands on one. Stay away from the test strips, they have a tendency to be inaccurate.

Its always a good idea to take the advice of pet store employees with a grain of salt; they are very poorly educated, and sadly do not give very good advice most of the time, like now. The minimum for a good proper school of tetras is 5-6. Of course any number will school together, but in order for them to thrive and have a quality life, you need a proper school. Remember; surviving is not thriving, there is a difference. Just because they may appear 'fine' does not mean they are truly thriving.

Please return or rehome the Glofish. Like I said, they are not proper tankmates for bettas and do need their own school as well. Its probably trying to school with the tetras because 1: Its lonely and desperate and 2: because you have them in such a small space, there isn't much room TO swim away from them....it may not even be that its schooling with them truly, it may just have nowhere else to swim.

Also like I mentioned before, 5 gallons is not enough space to support a proper school of tetras with or without your betta. While a 5 gallon is a wonderful betta home, when you start looking into other spices of fish it is actually a very small aquarium, much too small for all but a select few species.....and tetras aren't one of them.
If you really want to keep these tetras, you need to get at least a 10 gallon tank and 2-3 more of them. If you can't get anything larger then a 5/5.5 then its best that you return or rehome them.....most stores have a 2 week return policy on fish, so you should be able to take them back without any issues.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

wow thanks!!! yeah i'm planning on going tomorrow to get a bigger tank.... whether it's a 5.5 or larger. the thing is that people in walmart are so stupid!!! our cashier didn't even ring up the glofish so now we can't return it! what should i do with her?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Take it to an aquarium club.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

You're very welcome. 

Try and get that 10 gallon setup if you can. I do believe the kits are just a few more dollars, but you'll probably have to upgrade your heater too. IMO though, if you can, its definitely worth it.
Also see if you can pickup a liquid testing kit....might seem a little pricey, but it gives you 800 tests and will help you out a LOT through the cycling process and afterwards. Always a wonderful and necessary thing to have on hand, and worth every penny in the long run. 

Whether you get the 5.5 or 10, you're going to want to look into the nitrogen cycle and the process involved. Here are some great links that'll help explain it.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=66595
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771

Do you or your family/friends know anyone who could possibly house your Glofish properly? At the very least in a larger setup with a few other Zebra Danios? Ask around and see if you can find a nice home for her.
Besides that.....the most ideal option would be a 20-30 gallon setup where you can provide her with her own school(and probably just best to keep your betta in the 2.5 in that case), but if thats not even an option then worst case scenario as a last resort is that you have hang onto her. Its not perfect, and not at all ideal or recommended, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do....


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> You're very welcome.
> 
> Try and get that 10 gallon setup if you can. I do believe the kits are just a few more dollars, but you'll probably have to upgrade your heater too. IMO though, if you can, its definitely worth it.
> Also see if you can pickup a liquid testing kit....might seem a little pricey, but it gives you 800 tests and will help you out a LOT through the cycling process and afterwards. Always a wonderful and necessary thing to have on hand, and worth every penny in the long run.
> ...


 Just to let you know, i'm a teen and i have to pay for all the fish stuff :T. i have $22 in my wallet, i used to have $75 but i've been spending it own betta care.  this is so much! maybe i should just TRY to return the poor glofish  And where could i possibly fit a 10gal tank? i have Zuko's in my room right now; but a 10gal? ugh. i will try my best, whether it's getting a tank that's inbetween 5.5gal and 10gal, or taking $ out of my car savings account to get a big tank. thanks for the advice and help though


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh don't worry, I know where you're coming from. Can't say I'm really technically a teen anymore, but I'm only a couple years out and I have/still do pay for the majority of my fish and their supplies with my own money. Its really not at all a cheap hobby sadly.... :lol:

A 10 gallon isn't quite as large as you might thing....do you have a good solid desk or dresser? Take a look at the dimensions of one(you can look it up online), then take a measuring tape to ANYTHING in your room you may think solid enough. You might be surprised where you could fit one....I don't even KNOW I I've managed to squeeze 12 tanks in my room. xD

As far as budget goes...have you checked around local thrift stores or Craigslist? You can often find some nice used tanks for much cheaper. 

If you really can't manage a 10 gallon....then it'd be best to take the neons back or rehome them along with your Glofish. Actually if you went ahead and did that, you could keep your boy alone in his 2.5 for a while and take the time to save up for something larger with all the fixings and whatnot so you wouldn't have to rush out and spend all your money right now. Then you could start looking into proper tank mates for whatever size you choose. That might be the cheapest and easiest solution for the moment, if you'd be willing to do that instead.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

i'm going to petvalu today (it's 12:45am lol) to grab a tank... i noticed the walmart one is sold there too so let's see what happens  i will post on here later. i'm pretty sure i will get a 10gal ^-^


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Sounds great.  Best of luck!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You can cut costs on filteration. Grow semi aquatic from lid and aquatic plants.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

ChoclateBetta said:


> You can cut costs on filteration. Grow semi aquatic from lid and aquatic plants.


Not really sure how that cuts costs on filtration....you'd still need a filter and media for your BB to grow.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

BB grow evertwhere invludibg plant roots.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

DragonFish said:


> Not really sure how that cuts costs on filtration....you'd still need a filter and media for your BB to grow.


You dont need a filter. Live plants grow BB on them and absorb nutruents.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Yes, BBs stick to everything, bit without a proper amount of media in your filter, where most of them are going to grow, your tank isn't going to be able to establish and hold a stable cycle. The roots of a plant or two aren't going to be able to support enough BB, you'd still need a cartridge or preferably some filter sponge. 
And unless you have a very well established and heavily planted NPT, and even sometimes then most people do anyway, you DO need a filter in order to cycle your tank.
So while adding some plants to the filter is certainly beneficial for the plants and water quality, its not necessarily gong to save you any money.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

BB just need oxygen and nutrients which are everywhere. But in a tank just with the right amont of fish filters are okay. Extra water changes makeup.


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

Not entirely. BB need an Oxygen rich environment to thrive, and while they are 'sticky' and can be found on all surfaces of the tank, MOST of them are going to be found in your filter on your media because that is the most oxygen-rich area in your tank. Therefore, you need to provide enough of some kind of media in your filter for the BBs to colonize in order to start and maintain a cycle. 

We are getting off subject here though....I think thats enough hijacking this thread, lets just drop the subject.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

If plants like djckweed can clean waste water many times durtier they can clean aquarium water.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Plants such as duckweed help, not because they grow beneficial bacteria on their roots but because of their ability to uptake an astonishing amount of ammonia and other nutrients. It is possible to have a tank where plants act as a living filter, removing waste products and oxygenating the water. However, you need to know what you are doing to be successful with a set-up like this, and it can be a fine balance between plant growth and stocking. 

Anyway, I would probably advise trying to rehome your neon tetras. They are quite a popular fish amongst the planted tank community so perhaps you could find someone who would take them.

They are quite a sensitive fish and really need a mature, established tank to do best in. If your tank isn't cycled (sounds like it isn't ) unless you are very on the ball with testing your parameters and doing water changes, you are probably going to lose them during the process. 

Glofish or zebra danios, which I believe is what they are, are hardy fish. However, they are also very active swimmers and require in my opinion at least a 3 foot tank to really thrive in. I would return it and say that you were sold the incorrect fish and that you are unable to provide the adequate care for it. If the person in the fish section refuses just say you want to talk to their manager then. I'm sure they'd be happy to take back the fish rather than have to deal with the hassle of it all. 

If you are keeping the neons, definitely try and get a 10 gallon tank. Also because your tank is going to start cycling whether you want it to or not, you are really going to need to purchase a test kit for ammonia and nitrite. Otherwise you will have no real idea as to what your parameters are, and whether your fish are being subjected to dangerously high levels of ammonia. Clean, clear water does not mean that it is safe for your fish, and as little as 0.5-1ppm of ammonia could be enough to kill your fish, particularly the neons.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Azollas known for the bacteria it grows on its roots.


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## Phaydra (Nov 20, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Plants such as duckweed help, not because they grow beneficial bacteria on their roots but because of their ability to uptake an astonishing amount of ammonia and other nutrients. It is possible to have a tank where plants act as a living filter, removing waste products and oxygenating the water. However, you need to know what you are doing to be successful with a set-up like this, and it can be a fine balance between plant growth and stocking.
> 
> Anyway, I would probably advise trying to rehome your neon tetras. They are quite a popular fish amongst the planted tank community so perhaps you could find someone who would take them.
> 
> ...


This is true Neons are pretty but honestly even in an established tank they are hard to introduce. I say hold off on Neons till you have a bit more fish keeping experience under your belt. Find both the neons and the danio a new home. Danios need a strong current and best not to push the temp in their tank above 77 degrees. Danios are not tropical fish. They are at odds with a Betta for housing. Danios also need a group of 6+ to school to spread out harassment. They harrass each other and the other fish in your tank to no end if you don't school them properly. A single danio is capable of stressing the Betta and neons to death. 3 is not a school. it is 6+ for aggression reasons. Even Neons will pick on their own and you need those bodies to spread it out. 


Short version: 
Neons are bad fish for beginners. 
Danios are one of the worst choices to house with Bettas.

I commend you for coming to the forums and learning.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Zebra Danios are to active too; plus they steal food.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

yeah my parents say maybe the danio will become friends and be in the tetra pack but trust me, they haven't done as much researching as me  even though i got the danio from walmart... do you think i could "donate" it to Petsmart? she's completely healthy! and, walmart doesn't give a tartar sauce about their fish and their care -_-

and i've been trying to find the perfecto tank(10gal) for my fish so much! i tested my water again yesterday and the ammonia is still .5pp but everything else is perfect... which is good i guess.
i'm not giving up the tetras! i'm getting that tank as soon as possible.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I always reccomend giving it to a hobbyist instead.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

the Danio?
trust me, idk anyone who owns fish or is a _good _fish keeper


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## DragonFish (Mar 31, 2009)

If you're ammonia is that high, which is not surprising in the size of tank you've got all those fish in right now, you should do a nice large water change on that tank. You want to keep the ammonia as low as you possibly can, any amount can be harmful, and for sensitive neons deadly.

Do some searching around your area and see if you can find a local, privately owned pet store that carries fish. I don't think Petsmart will take unwanted fish(though you can ask), but often a privately owned place will take your fish for some store credit or something. 

I do agree though that ideally it would be best to give the neons away as well for the moment until you are able to get your tank all setup, fully cycled, and you have a little more experience and knowledge.....sometimes though it may not be what we want, we need to think of what is best for the fish, even if that means not keeping them.

Of course its up to you, no one can make you, and I and others have given you some good info to help you try and work it out, but its just something to think about.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

phew *highly relieved* okay i'm extremely happy :-D:-D:-D i did a literally 95% tank change and my Ammonia is now 0ppm and everything else is PERFECT nitrites:0 also 

i've been monitoring the levels with my api liquid kit and everything seems to be great. and Zuko is much more active and happpierrr :-D:-D:-D:-D


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## kevinbacon (Sep 6, 2012)

Been looking into getting some neon tetras when I buy my betta too. How's your setup going?


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

well for the past week i have had the tetras in a seperate container than the male VT because i'm treating them for worms cause their new.... but when i had them in the tank with him he flared and chased them/nipped at them but now he's fine with them whenever theyre in the tank. every betta will probably have a different reaction so shoot me a PM when you get your tetras!!!:-D


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