# What to do for potential inflamed gills



## BurnishedOchre

I've been doing some research about inflamed gills along with other diseases, and I've read that ampicillin is the best treatment for issues of this nature. Does anyone have any other advice on what could be done to treat inflamed gills? It supposedly will kill the fish after a small amount of time, and is bacterial in nature (?) If anyone has any home remedies that have helped their fish out I would love to hear about it.


----------



## kelly528

I would salt the water. What size tank is he in? How often are you cleaning it and how much water do you change? Often inflammation of the gills is caused by ammonia poisoning, in which case a clean tank is by far the quickest and most effective cure.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

kelly528 said:


> I would salt the water. What size tank is he in? How often are you cleaning it and how much water do you change? Often inflammation of the gills is caused by ammonia poisoning, in which case a clean tank is by far the quickest and most effective cure.


Thank you for the response!

I have a small portion of salt in the tank already (about a third of a teaspoon per gallon when I mix up a new batch). The tank itself is 3 gallons, has a 25% change and a near-complete water change each week with rinsing and wiping of the tank decor, more or less as depending on how dirty it might be.

I feel awfully stupid for having checked the water parameters for nitrite and nitrate etc., but not for ammonia and I have the kit! Silly me. I'll go check on it now.


----------



## kelly528

Lol we all have our days...

Keep us posted on the ammonia.

Were his gills by any chance inflamed when you got him? The ammonia poisoning they are often exposed to in those pet-store cups will scar their gills, giving them a slightly swollen appearance long after they are healed.

Check carefully for any white worms hanging from the gills. Gill flukes will cause inflammation, although I would thnk you would have noticed one if that was the root of the problem.

Can you get pictures? Normal and flaring?


----------



## BurnishedOchre

*Sorry guys - huge post! D: *



kelly528 said:


> Lol we all have our days...
> 
> Keep us posted on the ammonia.
> 
> Were his gills by any chance inflamed when you got him? The ammonia poisoning they are often exposed to in those pet-store cups will scar their gills, giving them a slightly swollen appearance long after they are healed.
> 
> Check carefully for any white worms hanging from the gills. Gill flukes will cause inflammation, although I would thnk you would have noticed one if that was the root of the problem.
> 
> Can you get pictures? Normal and flaring?


EDIT: In the photos, I notice that he seems to have a whitish ring around his eyes - these are not as evident in him now. These photos have also been brightened, to increase ability to see.

I have gotten a number of different photos of his gills, though I realize they are almost all of one side of his head (the gills look fairly similar except from the front, as his right operculum looks slightly more extended away from the body which I thought was potentially suspicious. Sorry for the photo dump but I thought that different angles would help out any issue with identification. I am somewhat thankful that I have not seen any white strings or other patches on his body.

Current parameters:

Ammonia: .50 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Total Hardness: ~60 ppm (moderate)
Total Alkalinity: 120 ppm (ideal range)
pH: 7.2-7.3
Current tank temperature: 77 degrees F

From what the readings say in the booklet that came with my test kit (a Mardel 5-in-1 and Ammonia Master Kit), a pH of 6-7.6 and having a .50 ammonia reading is considered 'safe' with 77 degrees.

What is worrying to me right now is his current activity - since last night he has been active as usual, with small intermittent periods of non-activity - he will just stop, gills barely moving, and stay in place in the water, whether pointing downward in his corner with the silk plant, behind the heater (where he likes to sleep), or in the middle of the water with no supports. He does this, but it seems that he snaps out of it and swims over to me when I check in on him. Sometimes he has gasped for air, but I've only seen him do it three times over the past night and today. His breathing isn't exactly labored, but his gill motions sometimes are more noticeable. I have had the filter turned off since mid-day today since I accidentally gave him too much food and he was having a hard time staying upright. He is back to normal now and his stomach isn't slightly extended as it was this morning, so he must have passed his excrement okay.

As well, I have him in water that is treated with Jungle Fungal Clear, which tomorrow will be the last day of its treatment unless I want to continue (a new thin area on his tail appeared, but he does swim fast a lot and likes to flare at things at least three or four times a day, so I am thinking it is from that - his tail seems to be repairing itself with new, clear tissue however. Do you think the coloration will come back?)

Oops - I got ahead of myself. Here are the photos:








It was kind of funny when Desmoda saw me when I opened the tank lid to do the water tests; he seemed to be very expectant of food.


----------



## kelly528

Those booklets are quite lax... .5 is pretty high for ammonia, you will want to keep it as close to 0 as possible at all times. Change his water as soon as ammonia becomes perceptible on the chart (at.25). Do a full water change now. Since he is otherwise healthy (no signs of parasitic or bacterial infection) I am inclined to think this is an ammonia issue.


----------



## angie08

Hey there.. So i think my betta has inflamed gills too.. .but i'm not sure what to do about it. ..He hasn't been doing the greatest.. I wanted to know what you guys think.. look at my post here.. tell me what you think.. 

this was my previous post this week:

" Okay, so my betta, Sonic has been acting weird in the last week. all this past week he wasn't eating anything. he might of taken 2 pellets the whole week. He keeps spitting them back out.. and I usually get it out of the tank immediately so it doesn't make the water acidic. I just changed his water as I always do except I added new rocks, that I did wash well before adding it to his tank. He still isn't eating.. just keeping it in his mouth for a few moments then spitting it right back out. Does he have some sort of digestive problems? I also recognized that he's been pale and hasn't been holding his fins completely open. He still swims around and seems happy.. but he needs to eat. He does look pale/loss of his color behind both his gills.. .. I need some help! thanks :] "


----------



## BurnishedOchre

Okay - here is an update:

I've given the tank a 75% water change, added conditioned and salted water (about a fourth to a third of a teaspoon for a gallon), and have put the carbon filter back in to the system. I took another reading and the ammonia level was at first .25 then .50 on the next testing (I took another test right after the first one after changing the water). Extremely worried, I put in 3 gallon's equivalent of Prime water conditioner (7 drops), as I read on the container that up to 5 times the normal amount can be applied to the tank directly in emergencies.

What I am thinking is going on is that the tank never truly cycled to begin with, something I didn't really understand at the time, and the ammonia levels are spiking since I did not change the water as usual due to my fungal clear medicine directions. I would really prefer the tank to be cycled, so I looked up some info on it on the Tropical Fish forums, and it is said that I should just continue to detoxify the ammonia with Prime and maybe even add some extra starter bacteria (supposedly the Bio filter I received with the tank had some bacteria on it, but maybe it didn't actually have any or didn't have enough to deal with the ammonia. 

I have also cut back on his feeding - only three or four pencil-point-sized flakes a day, maybe even less now.

What is really concerning me is that he is still behaving erratically - he will swim around like he normally does, but then just... stop. A little gill movement, but no fin movement at all, no up or down motion. Like he has frozen in time. When he does swim, he often has difficulty keeping his body straight, difficulty swimming downward, and his tail end will sometimes drift upward, so I am thinking that it is a swimbladder problem. He will also drift up to the surface and be on his side for a number of seconds, then go swimming off again. I have to say though that he is not as sluggish as he was before I put in the conditioner when he is active. He will probably stop in place four times every minute. *sighs* I know he is my first fish, and I accept any errors I have made, but still... I really hope he pulls through.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

A more detailed update:

I was just watching Desmoda now - I think the major issue he is facing right now is his swim bladder. Like I said, he swims and stops, often can't get down to the bottom of the tank unless he uses his tail a lot more than he might, less use of his tail in general, and trying to get places with beating pectoral fins and slight tail movements which are more difficult.

Some odd physical phenomena are the facts that his side side seems a little more pronounced in areas - his right eye has a noticeable white ring around its base, mostly above the eye, his right gill is more pronounced and it seems as those his right gill is moving a lot more in his breathing, his swim bladder bulge is on the right but not the left, and whenever he stops, he always drifts up so that his right side faces upward. Perhaps his constipation/overfeeding has made this happen? His belly is still round though not freakishly so, so he hasn't defecated yet.

Just wanted to add this to make any corrections.


----------



## ChristinaRoss

im inclined to think its the ammonia as well. also sounds constipated. fast him for a couple days, that usually helps.

for the ammonia, i would always do a water change as soon as its detected. in a 3 gallon tank it will build up much fast than a larger tank, so you always have to do more water changes, best treatment for inflamed gills? FRESH WATER always, let us know if it gets worse, or any new symptoms


----------



## kelly528

angie08 said:


> Hey there.. So i think my betta has inflamed gills too.. .but i'm not sure what to do about it. ..He hasn't been doing the greatest.. I wanted to know what you guys think.. look at my post here.. tell me what you think..
> 
> this was my previous post this week:
> 
> " Okay, so my betta, Sonic has been acting weird in the last week. all this past week he wasn't eating anything. he might of taken 2 pellets the whole week. He keeps spitting them back out.. and I usually get it out of the tank immediately so it doesn't make the water acidic. I just changed his water as I always do except I added new rocks, that I did wash well before adding it to his tank. He still isn't eating.. just keeping it in his mouth for a few moments then spitting it right back out. Does he have some sort of digestive problems? I also recognized that he's been pale and hasn't been holding his fins completely open. He still swims around and seems happy.. but he needs to eat. He does look pale/loss of his color behind both his gills.. .. I need some help! thanks :] "


-How often do you clean the tank?
-How much water do you change?
-How big is the tank?
-what's the water temperature?


----------



## kelly528

BurnishedOchre said:


> Okay - here is an update:
> 
> I've given the tank a 75% water change, added conditioned and salted water (about a fourth to a third of a teaspoon for a gallon), and have put the carbon filter back in to the system. I took another reading and the ammonia level was at first .25 then .50 on the next testing (I took another test right after the first one after changing the water). Extremely worried, I put in 3 gallon's equivalent of Prime water conditioner (7 drops), as I read on the container that up to 5 times the normal amount can be applied to the tank directly in emergencies.
> 
> What I am thinking is going on is that the tank never truly cycled to begin with, something I didn't really understand at the time, and the ammonia levels are spiking since I did not change the water as usual due to my fungal clear medicine directions. I would really prefer the tank to be cycled, so I looked up some info on it on the Tropical Fish forums, and it is said that I should just continue to detoxify the ammonia with Prime and maybe even add some extra starter bacteria (supposedly the Bio filter I received with the tank had some bacteria on it, but maybe it didn't actually have any or didn't have enough to deal with the ammonia.
> 
> I have also cut back on his feeding - only three or four pencil-point-sized flakes a day, maybe even less now.
> 
> What is really concerning me is that he is still behaving erratically - he will swim around like he normally does, but then just... stop. A little gill movement, but no fin movement at all, no up or down motion. Like he has frozen in time. When he does swim, he often has difficulty keeping his body straight, difficulty swimming downward, and his tail end will sometimes drift upward, so I am thinking that it is a swimbladder problem. He will also drift up to the surface and be on his side for a number of seconds, then go swimming off again. I have to say though that he is not as sluggish as he was before I put in the conditioner when he is active. He will probably stop in place four times every minute. *sighs* I know he is my first fish, and I accept any errors I have made, but still... I really hope he pulls through.


First off, the nitrifying bacteria probably died when you took the filter insert out of the water.

Second, any 'bacteria in a bottle' deal is really iffy... to put it this way bacteria cannot survive that long without food or oxygen. Same goes for your 'Bio Filter'. 

Third, I don't see how detoxifying ammonia will help anything. Can bacteria consume detoxified ammonia?

Fourth, Flakes are kind of crud IMO. Their ingredients may be dandy, but they are 90% air and swell like sponges in the gut, causing contsipation. Same goes for freeze dried. Rather than soaking it (in which case your betta is getting 90% water instead of 90% air. Whoop-de-doo.), just get some betta pellets. HBH betta bites are cheap, readily available and awesome.

Fast him for a few days then feed him about a quarter of a thawed frozen pea to clear everything else out.


----------



## dramaqueen

Daphnia is also very good for constipation.


----------



## kelly528

Yeah definitely daphnia (frozen or live, not freeze-dried) if you can get ahold of it. It's also a good food to prevent constipation, since IMO bettas only need peas in an emergency. Peas will do in a pinch, but as DQ has brought up before they are only a miniscule part of a betta's natural diet, therefore don't fare quite as well in the 'preventative maintenance' category.


----------



## aunt kymmie

I see no problems with using freeze dried daphnia. As long as you completely presoak it prior to feeding there won't be a problem. Freeze dried daphnia beats a pea, any day, in my book.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

ChristinaRoss said:


> im inclined to think its the ammonia as well. also sounds constipated. fast him for a couple days, that usually helps.
> 
> for the ammonia, i would always do a water change as soon as its detected. in a 3 gallon tank it will build up much fast than a larger tank, so you always have to do more water changes, best treatment for inflamed gills? FRESH WATER always, let us know if it gets worse, or any new symptoms


I've given him a 75% water change and have more conditioned water on the side if I see any more issues. He's doing better, just very unstable and stopping a lot. And even that is getting better it seems. I'll definitely be heeding the advice about fasting, along with the freeze-dried food and flakes. Thanks a lot!


----------



## BurnishedOchre

kelly528 said:


> First off, the nitrifying bacteria probably died when you took the filter insert out of the water.
> 
> Second, any 'bacteria in a bottle' deal is really iffy... to put it this way bacteria cannot survive that long without food or oxygen. Same goes for your 'Bio Filter'.
> 
> Third, I don't see how detoxifying ammonia will help anything. Can bacteria consume detoxified ammonia?
> 
> Fourth, Flakes are kind of crud IMO. Their ingredients may be dandy, but they are 90% air and swell like sponges in the gut, causing contsipation. Same goes for freeze dried. Rather than soaking it (in which case your betta is getting 90% water instead of 90% air. Whoop-de-doo.), just get some betta pellets. HBH betta bites are cheap, readily available and awesome.
> 
> Fast him for a few days then feed him about a quarter of a thawed frozen pea to clear everything else out.


Aw dang - yeah, that probably was the case. Now I realize that I should have kept it in aquarium water and not have let it dry out - dang it!

Yeah, I've heard a lot of controversy about the pre-packaged bacteria - it sounds almost too good to be true...and that sounds very logical about the bio wheel too. Makes perfect sense.

I got the idea of detoxified ammonia still being viable for the bacteria that convert it from this forum page here about a person's high ammonia level: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...-ammonia-levels-stressing-me-out-32249/page4/ It gave me the idea that ammonia can get turned into ammonium, that if your pH is below 7 your waste will be ammonium while above 7 will be ammonia, that most strip tests will test levels of ammonium as ammonia and add it to the final total, that ammonium does not stress the fish, and that the nitrifying bacteria can eat ammonium. What are your thoughts? 

I have a container of pellets actually, but I haven't been giving them to Desmoda because he hasn't been able to eat them due to their size...until now I really wasn't sure that the flakes were making him bloat up so much, but it's gotten pretty apparent, obviously! I will be crushing his pellets for him from now on. Now I just have some freeze-dried bloodworms and flakes that will stay in the shadows... that's all right though - I have luck that I will be able to go to the PetSmart a few hours away this weekend so I'll be sure to get some daphnia then, if they have any.  Thank you for your advice - it is really appreciated!

On the pea thing - I have heard a LOT of controversy on that treatment, but supposedly it works? I think I'll try the daphnia first, though - it seems more conducive to the fish's natural diet.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

aunt kymmie said:


> I see no problems with using freeze dried daphnia. As long as you completely presoak it prior to feeding there won't be a problem. Freeze dried daphnia beats a pea, any day, in my book.


So you're saying that freeze-dried daphnia don't have the same air (or water after you soak them) percentage that freeze-dried bloodworms do? I'm just curious.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

*Thanks!*

Also, thank you all so much about your responses!! They have been factual and great advice. It has all really helped me out and may have saved my betta from an unnecessary end. Thank you for your time!


----------



## aunt kymmie

BurnishedOchre said:


> So you're saying that freeze-dried daphnia don't have the same air (or water after you soak them) percentage that freeze-dried bloodworms do? I'm just curious.


I'm not sure what you're asking as far as air/water/percentage but basically dehydrated foods contain zero water so they need to be completley rehydrated before you feed them to your fish. If the food isn't rehydrated before giving it to your fish, they eat the food "dry" and once in their gut it'll expand, presenting a potentially lethal situation for your fish. 
What I do with my freeze dried foods is take an amount that looks to be half of what I'd normally feed (if it was live or frozen) and soak it in a shotglass of tank water until it's fully absorbed of water, then I feed it to my fish. HTH


----------



## BurnishedOchre

aunt kymmie said:


> I'm not sure what you're asking as far as air/water/percentage but basically dehydrated foods contain zero water so they need to be completley rehydrated before you feed them to your fish. If the food isn't rehydrated before giving it to your fish, they eat the food "dry" and once in their gut it'll expand, presenting a potentially lethal situation for your fish.
> What I do with my freeze dried foods is take an amount that looks to be half of what I'd normally feed (if it was live or frozen) and soak it in a shotglass of tank water until it's fully absorbed of water, then I feed it to my fish. HTH


I was meaning exactly what you just said - sorry about that! >_O That idea to halve what you would normally feed dry and soak that amount is really helpful - thanks for bringing it up.


----------



## kelly528

BurnishedOchre said:


> Aw dang - yeah, that probably was the case. Now I realize that I should have kept it in aquarium water and not have let it dry out - dang it!
> 
> Yeah, I've heard a lot of controversy about the pre-packaged bacteria - it sounds almost too good to be true...and that sounds very logical about the bio wheel too. Makes perfect sense.
> 
> I got the idea of detoxified ammonia still being viable for the bacteria that convert it from this forum page here about a person's high ammonia level: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...-ammonia-levels-stressing-me-out-32249/page4/ It gave me the idea that ammonia can get turned into ammonium, that if your pH is below 7 your waste will be ammonium while above 7 will be ammonia, that most strip tests will test levels of ammonium as ammonia and add it to the final total, that ammonium does not stress the fish, and that the nitrifying bacteria can eat ammonium. What are your thoughts?


Yeah that would definitely make sense... I was a little guarded because I know there are a lot of hokey 'ammonia removers' out there that do little other than starve your bacteria.




> I have a container of pellets actually, but I haven't been giving them to Desmoda because he hasn't been able to eat them due to their size...until now I really wasn't sure that the flakes were making him bloat up so much, but it's gotten pretty apparent, obviously! I will be crushing his pellets for him from now on. Now I just have some freeze-dried bloodworms and flakes that will stay in the shadows... that's all right though - I have luck that I will be able to go to the PetSmart a few hours away this weekend so I'll be sure to get some daphnia then, if they have any.  Thank you for your advice - it is really appreciated!


Try crushing the pellets. A lot of people also find that if they keep offering pellets for long enough the betta will break down and eat them. It's almost something that they have to 'learn' to do because not only are the pellets big they are coated in gel to prevent them from sinking so the betta may just take it for a ball of plastic until he actually chews it.



> On the pea thing - I have heard a LOT of controversy on that treatment, but supposedly it works? I think I'll try the daphnia first, though - it seems more conducive to the fish's natural diet.


 Daphnia is definitely on the safe side... The views on peas differ from forum to forum and stem IMO form the moderators' views on them. I frequent another very popular, very informationally accurate forum where people swear by peas. Whether they are safe fo regular consumption is arguable, but I think we can definitely conclude that if used sparingly and only for treatment of constipation (as opposed to prevention) they won't hurt one bit.


----------



## BurnishedOchre

kelly528 said:


> Yeah that would definitely make sense... I was a little guarded because I know there are a lot of hokey 'ammonia removers' out there that do little other than starve your bacteria.
> 
> 
> 
> Try crushing the pellets. A lot of people also find that if they keep offering pellets for long enough the betta will break down and eat them. It's almost something that they have to 'learn' to do because not only are the pellets big they are coated in gel to prevent them from sinking so the betta may just take it for a ball of plastic until he actually chews it.
> 
> 
> Daphnia is definitely on the safe side... The views on peas differ from forum to forum and stem IMO form the moderators' views on them. I frequent another very popular, very informationally accurate forum where people swear by peas. Whether they are safe fo regular consumption is arguable, but I think we can definitely conclude that if used sparingly and only for treatment of constipation (as opposed to prevention) they won't hurt one bit.


It is really hard to know what will be beneficial and what won't be, especially if you are bad at researching topics like I am. >< XD

*chuckles* That's actually a pretty funny image of a betta just pushing the pellet around until he realizes he can eat it... I'll definitely start by crushing them for him.

Just as an update, Desmoda can swim a lot better now though is still stopping randomly. I'll just keep an eye on him, because otherwise he seems just like normal - maybe he is even better than he was, actually - before this happened, he was always swimming quickly around the tank, which was leading to a slightly more ragged tail. Maybe his lower metabolism will actually be good for his healing process! I've also been keeping the tank light off almost all of the time save for a few hours and when I want to check on him - it has cut down his flaring activity considerably, which is nice as he was flaring a little too much before and gave him a new hole in his tail fin after the fungal treatment.  Silly Desmoda. If the light were on in his tank, he would always flare at me when I came into the room after a class or time away from the room. *chuckles* A bit aggressive for a 'hello', don't you think? ^^

I really have to say that I can't thank you enough for all of this information - it is priceless!!


----------



## kelly528

Glad to hear we could give you & Desmoda a hand


----------



## aunt kymmie

kelly528 said:


> Daphnia is definitely on the safe side... The views on peas differ from forum to forum and stem IMO form the moderators' views on them. I frequent another very popular, very informationally accurate forum where people swear by peas. Whether they are safe fo regular consumption is arguable, but I think we can definitely conclude that if used sparingly and only for treatment of constipation (as opposed to prevention) they won't hurt one bit.


I've never understood the pea rationale. In its natural environment a betta is never going to come across peas as part of their diet. Daphnia, on the other hand, would be in plenty of abundance. I feed my betta daphnia on a regular basis and he's never come close to being constipated. Feeding daphnia is the "ounce of prevention" rule, IMHO.


----------



## kelly528

aunt kymmie said:


> I've never understood the pea rationale. In its natural environment a betta is never going to come across peas as part of their diet. Daphnia, on the other hand, would be in plenty of abundance. I feed my betta daphnia on a regular basis and he's never come close to being constipated. Feeding daphnia is the "ounce of prevention" rule, IMHO.


a) It works.
b) It's easy to find for those who cannot for any reason get frozen or live daphnia.
c) Wild carnivores consume vegetation in the stomach contents of their prey. Wolves and large predators tear open the stomach contents of ruminants and eat them. Cats nibble grass to aid their digestion. Aquarists feed their larger fish gut-loaded snails and shrimp as a diet supplement. Bettas eat herbivorous insects whole. Furthermore, with respect to what I have heard about peas damaging the digestive tract, we are talking about a fish capable of stomaching shards of chitin (insect exoskeleton).

I have never seen a legitimate paper regarding the negative effects of peas... perhaps I will have to research the matter and report my findings here, but I simply cannot buy the argument that betta should never eat veggies, because they do.


----------



## dramaqueen

From Bettababy, who is a member here and an aquatics nutritionist/specialist:
I don't use *peas*, have never used *peas*, don't suggest *peas* for a betta. Giving a laxative to a fish, especially when it isn't a part of their natural diet, is a dangerous game to play. That sort of thing can cause internal damage and digestion problems. Bettas are meat eaters, they need the protien. Their digestive tract is not designed to handle vegetable matter/roughage, and that is why it works so well as a laxative.)


----------



## kelly528

That's what I'm saying... everybody says this but there's nothing to back it up. If the fact that they worked as a laxative meant that betta's stomachs weren't designed to handle them, wouldn't that mean daphnia is bad for digestion as well?

If I find any papers on it that would be enough to convince me, but anything without solid evidence can be pretty much written off as a myth.


----------



## aunt kymmie

The point being made here is that daphnia is a part of their natural diet. Peas are not indigenous to the area from which bettas hail from. I can feed cabage to my dogs and it will certainly act as a laxative but I'm sure it puts their guts in an uproar and isn't a pleasant experience for them. Dogs eat grass for this purpose, which is a natural process for them. Sure, cabbage will work for dogs, peas will work for bettas, but just because it *works* doesn't mean it's good for them. 

It's late for me but tomorrow I will go hunt down the scientific proof that peas are not the preferred method for relieving constipation in bettas. I remember reading the article which convinced me and which is why I now keep daphnia on hand.


----------

