# Help identify



## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

didn't get much response in my Sorority thread, thought maybe because it wasn't outright asking for identification help.

Anyway picked up this female at the grocery store... She's HUGE! 4 inches (over 10cm... maybe she's really old? idk... Trying to figure out her tail... fairly sure she's a HM, just need some confrimation.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

i would say gaint is what you have .


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## LunaRedmoon (Nov 9, 2011)

Id have to say she is a giant as well. Very pretty though


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## mountaintrout (Nov 24, 2011)

Wow...half bass/betta...kidding .. not sure what to call that other than what the others said. Big beauty


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

If you can get another picture of her flaring, that would be great!

From what I see in the pictures, I would say that it "could" be a male and either way if it's a male or female, it is a PK (Plakat). She/He doesn't have the full 180* spread.

-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

she's gotten her color back and her stress strip is gone. she's now dominating the tank and taken a chunk out of the little red/white/blue baby's tail. My Red VT has become confused and is now showing mating bars. Working on a flaring pic now.

Saw her yawn a min ago she looked like a largemouth bass.

Pretty sure it's a she there were about 5 just like her in the tank. She just looked the darkest to me.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well if she is a she, then she is a very pretty plakat. Also IMO, plakats and other short fined bettas tend to be more aggressive toward other fish and other females. I guess because they have very little fins that slow them down so they are faster as well.

-BL2033


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## mountaintrout (Nov 24, 2011)

You need tittie enter a division in showing bettas....the bassmasters 
Open division


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Best i could get... had to flash her because she won't do it where there's light...


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay well with the picture. I think she is a male and I KNOW that he is a HMPK halfmoon plakat.

To be sure of the gender, you need to look for the *egg spot*. Its a little white dot that only females have and if "she" doesnt have that then she is a male, and should be taken out of the tank immediately. Usually female HMPK's fins are shorter and the pectoral fins are also smaller.
-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

just double checked, she flares like a male, gills and all, and when she does you can just barely see her egg spot. i'd try to get a pic but it is really hard to see compared to my red VT female.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay well that is perfectly fine! Then if she is a female, I would keep an eye on her because she in fact is a giant and a lot more dangerous than the other females. Congrats on her!

-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

yeah she's terrorizing the other 2 so she may come out anyway witch is a complete bummer as i'll now have 2 out of 4 of my females that have to be housed separate.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh i'm sorry.

I think your coming down with the "betta virus!" How many did you start off with?

-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

2... Male and female... i knew i wanted to breed but didn't have the right fin match... so i got the female CT and also took home another vt female baby cause i liked her, and was setting up a sorority, and then i got her because she's a monster...


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

I think we have yet to find a cure for the dreaded 'betta virus' LOL. Once it takes hold, it never stops!!! D:
Not that I'm complaining ;D Great find! HE/she is so pretty! :-D


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

i'd try looking for egg spot as have females with long fin's nice fish


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## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't know why but she totally looks male to me, are you sure you're seeing an egg spot??


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

pretty sure... little white dot, only visible if you look really hard when he/she flares out her pec fins. If it is a male it's pretty amazing because it lived in a tank (about ten gallon size) with around 8 other bettas that all looked about the same and none were ripped up.

i have put a styrofoam cup 1/2 in there so i can watch for a bubblenest.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

eggs spot best way to go as some female's will make a nest i think i've seen ever thing dealing with bettas one wired fish had 2 female turn to males at 5 mo. had female take care of nest like male had one female kill 3 males and when the mateing started and then she die same way put big male in with hoeing she wouldn't kill him .but i love them still, how old is this fish?


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

no clue... Grocery store fish so who knows... could be years...

they had these in a tank, and one male in a cup
Male was a VT


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

well it should be 4 or 5 mo. any ways i think it's a female because the top finis so small aother thing you see in females is the bell being bigger as being fuller .


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

either way tomorrow i hit the lps and grab another tank or 2. The baby is missing another chunk of tail and my VT female has to hide all day. Unacceptable.


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## Lighterman (Oct 6, 2011)

Same here, from the last picture I very sure it's a male. Not much from the dorsal but the anal shows ALOT of a male tendency......what I disagree is that it looks like a standard 2 ray PK.


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## Lighterman (Oct 6, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Whoops, was looking at page 1, replying at the page 1 matter......


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Sometimes young males have "false" egg spots....that fish looks male to me and doesn't seem suited for your sorority regardless of gender. If you haven't already I'd remove him or her immediately, even putting him in a cup or jar for the night or you might wake up to dead fish.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

that it does but i just breed a female with anal fin like that one and she a halfmoon don't look like that now got some fin damage has that color to her to but not as big .hope you fine out what it is .


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Egg spot or not? Idk...


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

greentea you right no with that don't take long for it to go bad ,and thank for the info on young males that may be what i had happen i while back with to females may have been males all a long.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

after that pic. that looks like a female to me by that bell looks like she starting to swell.


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## mountaintrout (Nov 24, 2011)

this is one of those oddities that i love.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

.......... -reads entire thread- ............ wow. Huh. Well I suggest removing him/her just in case... 4 inches?? nice giant.  Lucky. lol. However, I had a giant PK female with my smaller gals and she bullied and tormented them... And her white egg spot was not very visible, but she was a female (spawned her)... Even if your betta IS a female, she made not be good for sorority life. Males, even when living together or with their sisters in tanks, if they are dared separated they no longer are able to be put back together at that age.


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## mountaintrout (Nov 24, 2011)

i need to find me some cichlid holes for mine to hide in a bit i think.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh those would work! Even hollowed out driftwood, caves, tunnels, crevaces... They love 'em


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Well I knew to take your word for it after YOU yourself checked because ONLY you will know for sure, unless one of the other members go to your house and check for themselves. I am sure she is a female because of the picture that confirmed her egg spot. She is a "giant" betta and that is why she has the masculine features.

As many times as I have heard of a female building a bubblenest, I just can't believe it. I feel like it might be true, but I would just have to see it for myself.

-BL2033


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

definitely looks like a female... But like I said, you could remove her, just for now... let things calm down, let everyone heal... When re-adding, float her, rearrange everything and do a water change... This makes everyone scout new territory  Only thing I can recommend... Some girlies are just not made for sorority sometimes... How many plants do you have in with them?


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

she didn't nest... and she's out. i got a divided 1 gallon but couldn't bring myself to make her live in 1/2 of it. 

Plants... there was 5, now it's up to 7. i'm gathering plants for the 20 gallon to be a NPT like Oldfishlady's. She's been nice enough to consult me.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Sounds good! I love her attitude!

-BL2033


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

i have some times had up to 20 females in a 10 gal. tank and i use guppy's grass ,thornwort and frogbit in my tank looks like a jungle. but it works geat have 2 caves and driftwood to and keep guppy's in there help keep them from getting to wild. most the time lots of places to hide best way to keep bettas if your going have more than 2 also a male help's, some but some times they will eat him up just depens on male, a good male will stop them from fighting most the time .


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Not true in most cases, and it isn't advised to have over 10 females in a tank as small as ten gallons. It is actually a very bad idea because experienced betta keeps know that they would live much happier and healthier lives in much smaller groups.

-BL2033


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

i don't think so myself as most breeder have large groups that they cull down to 50 or more in a 20gal. tank then place them in cups and sale them off think to many of us don't look at breeding the way real breeder's do . haveing them for a pet isn't the same and takeing care of them as a pet is not the same as breeding them for a line or a show .and they can be just as happy . room dosen't make them more happy . if you think that try put a betta in a quart jar add some floater plants like guppy grass or frogbit feed it 3 to 4 times a day change water half every day and see how it acts .bet it the happies one you have .if you have lots of float plants and and place for them to hide most the time they do fine . you just need to keep in mind that some bettas don't do good with other bettas


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## Wulvie Sharpteeth (Sep 30, 2011)

yea I think shes a he 

see the end of her bottom tail? its way too long and very pointed, this is what a female tail should look like:










hope this helps


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## Wulvie Sharpteeth (Sep 30, 2011)

oops, just read that this thread has a lot of replies XD ignore my comment now


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## ChelseaK (Oct 23, 2010)

This goes back a bit, but just to clarify (actually make things more difficult), males CAN have an eggspot for awhile.... One of my males, whom I've bred, did have an eggspot when he was younger and was in a sorority with his sisters. When I separated him out to treat for SBD, it became quite apparent that she was actually a he. I find that the best way to be absolutely sure is by the flare. Try floating the fish in question in the sorority, and when the other girls come to check it out, watch his/her flare. Girls will not have a full beard and will look straight at the fish they are flaring at. Boys will have a full beard and will do a side wiggle towards the fish they are flaring at.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

guess it's possible, but i have a female showing bars that was in there with it, no attempt at a nest or anything. And the store i got it at keeps their males in cups, and the females in a tank. there was like 8 others in there i would think there would have been some accidental breeding or something to happen if they were mixed. Not to mention they didn't fight at all with the rest of the sorority (mind you they were all that size).

May try placing it next to my CT male, see if she gets bars.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Some males can get the bars - my Shiloh actually had them when he first came to me looking like he'd lost a very unfair fight... But I also noticed my yellow male has them only on his cheeks  if she plumps up, or to a male after a while goes vertical with her head down, definitely a girlie  

And the definition of a real breeder is...? I personally think a "real breeder" is someone who can breed, successfully. Just IMO  

I have my tank stuffed. I couldve gotten the last 2 girls in the store to add to my 4, but I won't. I'll only be getting 1 or 2 in the future from a breeder, and they might not even go in the 20 gallon because it's hard enough keeping my Rose's fins not shredded because of the alpha!


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

That looks like a giant HMPK male, The 180 degree spread is hard to tell though. By the posturing and fins It sure looks like my male and is a STELLAR find, beautiful fish! These giants are popping up everywhere, I have a HMPK female that I was just riddled with columnaris and fin rot I brought back, she's gorgeous. And from the same store (a Wal Mart) I just picked up a spade tail giant female, something I had never even seen before. 

Also these giants are DANGEROUS, trust me my male hopped his divider and bullied one of my crown tails pretty good. Also the plakats will hit like a shark, there's nothing the regular splendens can do to get away from it (too much fin). Either way you have a spectucular fish and a heck of a find. Isolate this fish and find out what it is. I can't wait to see how big bettas get over the next few years


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

If it's a she, she may end up as my breeder. i think my CT female may be blind or something, just too weak and not a good enough feeder.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

-sniffles- why does everyone have pretty colored girls?? D: Oh...right mine are the badly bred lol... -.- -misses my Madame-


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

The scary thing is that could be a YOUNG male LOL. Can you get some more pics? I know it's a PITA getting these fish to hold still, but that is one heck of a fish to get at a grocery store. My g/f and I both purchased our CTs at Meijer of all places, really healthy good looking fish.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Dang, maybe those stores should come to Canada, to the town I live in LOL. If you can get THAT from a store :shock:


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Brian10962001 said:


> The scary thing is that could be a YOUNG male LOL. Can you get some more pics? I know it's a PITA getting these fish to hold still, but that is one heck of a fish to get at a grocery store. My g/f and I both purchased our CTs at Meijer of all places, really healthy good looking fish.


That's where i got this one. Meijer. I will attempt to get some more pics but it won't be till late


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

ChelseaK said:


> This goes back a bit, but just to clarify (actually make things more difficult), males CAN have an eggspot for awhile.... One of my males, whom I've bred, did have an eggspot when he was younger and was in a sorority with his sisters. When I separated him out to treat for SBD, it became quite apparent that she was actually a he. I find that the best way to be absolutely sure is by the flare. Try floating the fish in question in the sorority, and when the other girls come to check it out, watch his/her flare. Girls will not have a full beard and will look straight at the fish they are flaring at. Boys will have a full beard and will do a side wiggle towards the fish they are flaring at.


I have to disagree. Males don't have egg spots. They can have them when they are around the most of 3-4 months old, but that (female) looks at LEAST 7-8 months old or more. She cant be any younger judging by her size. Even giants aren't that big at young ages of 3-4 months.

Also, I have had many females that showed the attitude and behavior that the males did.

-BL2033


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I thought giants reach from 3-6 inches at 6-8 months... Or so I read somewhere on here


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Sena: Yes.

-BL2033


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

well in the one pic. were you can see the eggspot istill say the bellie don't lie males do get that spead like a female will i would say with in 3 weeks she will be full of eggs. i looked at about 12 on aqurabid most the males looked long and slim this fish is pretty compacked.would make a nice breeder maybe take more than just looks to be a good breeder fish


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

yeah i'm thinking about breeding it now as my other option fell through. put this one's tank next to my CT Male's and am letting them flare at each other to see if some breeding bars show up.

Do Males get stress stripes? This one gets a stress stripe if i change the tank it's in.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

i've not had any of my males show any bar's


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

I've never seen a male stress stripe, just go pale. Do you have a giant to breed her with? Possibly a giant plakat? Also the Meijer we go to takes VERY good care of their fish. The lights are on a timer and the betta water gets changed. Some of them don't make it despite this, and the water levels are usually pretty low but compared to say Wal Mart with a sink full of dead rotting fish, hair algae, lights on 24 7, it's night and day.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have had no males show stress stripes. I have however, seen males get the submission stripes... Riddle, El Dorado, Shiloh and unnamed guy all get them - mainly on their cheeks. I've heard of males getting stress stripes, but it is less defined as females.

For my one female, she could switch her submission stripes to stress stripes to disappearing in matters of seconds.


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

Mine isn't so good. but it was also thanksgiving weekend. Don't currently have a giant to breed her with if it's a her.

And she gets the most defined stress stripe i've yet seen every time i change her tank.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm aiming to your fish being a female as she is full grown. I will note I had a half giant PK, and she was such a meaner to the other girls.

When breeding a giant to a regular, you may get some half giants - or just regulars. From what I've heard


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

yeah genetically i would expect 50% non giants if bred to a regular.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

yep  for a full giant you'd need two giants.

Do you have a male big enough for her?? Being at her length, a half sized male could have some trouble... BUT... I have seen people use their strongest, or biggest male and he gets it done.


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## Brian10962001 (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't buy the "7 inch giant" talk. I think these Kings are giants. I'm pretty sure you'll get giants and non giants if you breed that fish with a regular male (assuming they can manage to embrace and such). I think having 2 giants just increases your chances of getting the larger size fish. I'm waiting to see some people breed these King plakats with some CT, or even VT fish and see what happens. I currently have a female spade tale giant and a HM PK giant female (I have a bunch of pics in my pics thread). I'm not familiar with breeding or I would already be working on it.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

there are not many "7 inch giants" lol so you are right about that. 
Usually they are about 4-5 inches if anything  But in order to get the full sizes, it's better to breed to a giant. But, you'd still get large bettas, and regular bettas  plus they'd all carry the giant gene - even if it is not shown.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

EvilVOG said:


> yeah i'm thinking about breeding it now as my other option fell through. put this one's tank next to my CT Male's and am letting them flare at each other to see if some breeding bars show up.
> 
> Do Males get stress stripes? This one gets a stress stripe if i change the tank it's in.


Yes, males do get stress stripes. Males can also have "breeding bars." The bars on betta fish don't always mean they are ready to breed. Actually it doesn't mean that they want to breed at all. This is a sign to the other fish (usually fish that are flaring at him or her) that he or she is submissive.

Males usually don't get this as they get older and gain confidence. As they are younger, some "weaker" males get them and females usually always get them, no matter what.

We later interpreted this as "breeding bars" because females get them right when she is full of eggs and feels the males hormones in the water. She then shows him that she is submissive and by then they are embracing.

Hope I helped.
-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

yeah that helps some. No sign that it's a she other than that faint spot. A day next to my CT male didn't produce bars, just some back and forth flaring.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow, this is so confusing! One minute shes a he and the next shes sure to be a she. I still think she is a she.

-BL2033


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## EvilVOG (Nov 23, 2011)

just don't know anymore. It flares... that's the only thing i'm sure of.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@EvilVOG: Lol! Well i'm going to stick by my opinions , statements, and judgments. And you should too. I believe that she is a she. Though you are more than welcome to your own opinion ect.

-BL2033


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

hahaha wow... confusing betta!! I've only ever had submissive girls. BUT.... there are some females who are more... rowdy? vicious? bullies?? lol. Leave her/him there for about a week. or even better yet, condition the fish as if you were to breed her... 1-2 weeks without other fish in her sight, fed well, clean water... then put her next to a male, even give her some of his water (horomones!!) and then see what happens.

I dunno.
lol


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@Sena: Try doing this but put her in the tank with him with either a divider or hurricane glass and she should be "flirting" with him.

-BL2033


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