# Chytrid?



## adlemsi

I got home today to find one of my last ADFs dead. He was covered in a translucent film. Is the chytrid? I still have one left & he's not as active as he used to be. Here's a picture of the dead one, showing the translucent film around him...


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## RussellTheShihTzu

This is an older but informative article:
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/...ytridiomycosis-in-pet-african-dwarf-frogs.htm

If I remember correctly, your guys were trying to climb from the tank? That is a symptom. :-(


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## adlemsi

OMG! My poor frogs! The last two males did climb to the edge of the critter keeper! The remaining one is still climbing up to the edge, has been lethargic, & has gotten slimmer. It's probably too late to treat it. Should I euthanize it? I've never done that before! Should I get rid of all the supplies (critter keeper, plants, etc)?


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## charliegill110

i don't know if its too late, but maybe try increasing the temp in the tank to like 85 or higher. i read heat kills chytrid.


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## adlemsi

I have one remaking ADF, but he doesn't look like he'll last. I'll try raising the heater setting.


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## micheemak

Sorry to hear about your frogs! I had chytrid in one of the tanks not that long ago - frog spotted out in white fuzz first, and also had some hemmoraging in his fins. It hit fast - noticed it one day on one frog, the next day both were dead - and the one that died first didn't have any of the symptoms I initially noted. Here's a pic of what my first frog looked like:










After he died, he did film over like in your picture very quickly. I was checking on him in the QT tank every 30 minutes, and that's what he looked like between the last check when he was still hanging in, and the check where I found he had died.

Good luck with your other frog - hope the heat treatment helps.


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## adlemsi

None of mine looked sick like that. They just stopped being as active, sometimes refused to eat, & spent more time than usual close or above the water surface. My remaining (realized my earlier typo) ADF, keeps climbing to the top of the heater knob or floating at the water surface.


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## charliegill110

actually i think i was wrong, i think chytrid needs over 90F but i'm not too sure. i would really recommend googling it. however when i first got my frogs, one of them was showing chytrid like signs (he kept hanging out at the top of the tank/floating at the surface) and after i increased the temp for a while he was fine. i don't know if it was a coincidence or if he had chytrid. but that was a couple months ago.


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## adlemsi

Won't over 90F be too high for the frog?

I'm never buying aquatics from Petco or any other chain store. I'll just use the recommended & reliable sources.


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## micheemak

I found this about chytrid treatment:

_Chytrid infections can be treated in the early stages with benzalkonium chloride or itraconazole. Some sources indicate that chytridiomycosis cannot be successfully treated with benzalkonium chloride, but according to Groff et al., this is an effective treatment for the Hymenochirus frog (African dwarf frog) that reduces mortality to 3 percent, versus 74 percent for the control (untreated) group. The remaining frogs in the author’s tank were treated two weeks after exposure, with a 2 mg/liter benzalkonium chloride bath once every three days for six treatments. None of the treated frogs succumbed to chytrid infection, and 11 months later they remain alive and healthy._
Source.

Also, an in-depth treatment breakdown *here*

Good luck!


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## charliegill110

adlemsi said:


> Won't over 90F be too high for the frog?
> 
> I'm never buying aquatics from Petco or any other chain store. I'll just use the recommended & reliable sources.


my frogs are from petco, i think its more of a store to store thing than chain stores as a whole. when you do the temp thing you have to watch them closely. my tank temp was a little under 90 (i think it was 87) for a few weeks due to a bad heat wave. it never went over 90. but i looked it up and heres a few things i found. 

http://www.conservationevidence.com/actions/770 
this one says Four of five studies (including four replicated, controlled studies) in Australia, Switzerland and the USA found that increasing enclosure or water temperature to 30–37°C (86F-98.6F) for over 16 hours cured frogs and toads of chytridiomycosis.

https://www.frogsafe.org.au/disease/chytrid_treatment.shtml
First part of treatment: Heating process

Suspect frogs can be placed in the small room with the heater running - the temp should be kept at 35 degrees C for four hours, then shut off the heater but keep the room closed to allow a slow return to ambient temp; only exceed 36 deg. C if you have a tropical frog species (but do not go any higher than 40C!) as such a high temperature might kill a sensitive or cool climate species; we have found that even metamorphs of tropical species will tolerate a four hour period at 35C.
the daily four hour heat treatment can be used until the skin symptoms clear and the frog/toad stops excessive soaking in the water bowl (we've had one species come in so far - Litoria gracilenta - that refuses to get into the water bowl so there may be some species which avoid contact with water)
If the majority of captive frogs are affected, heat the frog room(s) instead so all are treated simultaneously

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Chytrid_fungus#Heat_treatment

By heating the water holding the frog to 32°C (89.6°F) for the minimum period of four days (96 hours) the fungus and its spores are known to die.[3]


Place the frog into a small tank of about 15-20 Litres (4-5.3 US G.) and find a heater that can be set to warm the water to a steady 33-34°C (91.4-93.2°F) (it may help to insulate the tank sides and bottom with a towel). Provide water circulation to aid oxygenation of the water as warm water holds less.

It is not recommended to use a air pump with hose and an air stone as this is pumping 'cold' air into the water and will be a potential haven for the Chytrid fungus to survive.

Dechlorinate the water.

Provide a overhead light to the tank as this will help heat the water surface area and overhanging air to at least 33-34°C (91.4-93.2°F) .

Use an accurate thermometer, preferably one with a minimum/maximum temperature memory to record the minimum temperature the water gets to. Place the sensor as far away from the heater as possible.

Add a 1% solution of sea salt to the water to aid the frog's recovery.

Adjust temperature of the tank to current temperature of the water holding the frog and introduce the frog.

Slowly over a six hour period increase the temperature of the heater until you get to the target temperature.

If the frog is mature (at least one year old) and well sized, do not feed during the five days. If the frog is very young or is looking slim then a single light feed every two days can be done. But ensure any waste droppings from the frog are removed and monitor the water for ammonia levels. At these high temperatures any level of detected ammonia is more lethal (see Ammonia toxicity). Using a daily ammonia removing treatment bottle may be prudent.

It has been observed that the frog will be less active than normal. But whether this is due to the high temperature or the stress of the new environment is unknown.

After the five days, slowly lower the temperature back down to a more normal 25°C (77°F) over another six hour period.

Note: it is vital that any tools or devices used to transport the frog into the treatment tank are cleaned. Equipment can be successfully treated simply by ensuring the item is bone dry inside and out for at least six hours. Observe that any water droplets on your skin, clothes, etc. are cleaned by using disinfectant wipes.


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## adlemsi

Thanks for all your help!


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## charliegill110

your welcome! how is he doing?


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## adlemsi

Sadly, he was dead when I got home today. I'm going to disinfect everything.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I am so sorry you've had such a bad experience with your ADF. Hope you won't give up on them as they are entertaining critters.

I found the three links extremely interesting and informative. However, it should be noted the first two studies were not on aquatic frogs and the temperatures were _room_ temperatures. The third link gives conflicting advice on water temperature and is not based on any study I could determine.

I would suggest anyone who believes their ADF suffer from Chytrid look for ADF-specific treatment such as that linked on the previous page by Micheemak.


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## adlemsi

Thanks! I haven't given up on ADFs. I loved having them! I never thought I would own frogs, but they are so cute & lively. And the males singing brings back nostalgic memories of my summers at my grandparents' house in the Dominican countryside. I'm going to do a deep cleaning of everything I used for the ADFs. I plan to wait a few months to have a more establish setup & get healthy ADFs from your source. I'm really grateful for all the help you've offered!


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I'll look for a piece of Cholla that would make a good ADF hide and send it to you as a "Welcome!" gift. ;-)


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## adlemsi

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'll look for a piece of Cholla that would make a good ADF hide and send it to you as a "Welcome!" gift. ;-)


Aw, thanks!!!:-D


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## charliegill110

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I am so sorry you've had such a bad experience with your ADF. Hope you won't give up on them as they are entertaining critters.
> 
> I found the three links extremely interesting and informative. However, it should be noted the first two studies were not on aquatic frogs and the temperatures were _room_ temperatures. The third link gives conflicting advice on water temperature and is not based on any study I could determine.
> 
> I would suggest anyone who believes their ADF suffer from Chytrid look for ADF-specific treatment such as that linked on the previous page by Micheemak.


thank you i did not realize that! the first one says to increase room or water temp but the second one is definitely for room temp. i did not catch that when reading it.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

It's really scary to realize all of the diseases beyond Chytrid that ACF carry. They are banned in several states. Try Googling; you'll be amazed.


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## micheemak

It is scary. I know that where I live, when I purchased my frogs I had to sign a Zoonosis document, stating that I understood ADFs were carriers of certain diseases, and that the store was not responsible for my decisions.

However, I wouldn't be frogs from that particular store again - it was the one with the chytrid, so I lost the two I kept for myself, and the ones that I bought for my nephew, while still alive, seem to be sucumbing as well.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I meant African Clawed Frogs. Their introduction has wiped out entire populations of indigenous frogs and salamanders.


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## micheemak

That happens so often, though. Something gets introduced, either on purpose or accidently to a new environment, and death and destruction follow. Look at the boa constrictors in the Everglades as an example! Here in Canada, the introduction of the black squirrel has driven our native squirrels (reds and greys) into near invisibility - the black squirrels are more agressive, more territorial and tend to drive out the others. I rarely see gray squirrels at all anymore, and I can't remember the last time I saw a red squirrel, and they used to be all over the place.

Even in the lakes, people dump their pet turtles when they get too large to take care of, or their gold fish, and that causes issues as well. It's so frustrating!

Sorry, will get off my soapbox now. 

Yes, African Clawed frogs have negatively impacted other species. I agree.


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## RussellTheShihTzu

+1 ^^ Unfortunately not enough people are on that soapbox. :-(

Members on this forum have admitted to dumping pest snails in ponds and creeks. I throw them in the yard for the birds and other critters to eat. Plants I either give away or dump in the trash.


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## charliegill110

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> It's really scary to realize all of the diseases beyond Chytrid that ACF carry. They are banned in several states. Try Googling; you'll be amazed.


honestly i wish they were banned in every state.


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## adlemsi

I wish there was more accurate information on ADF care & disease prevention/treatment. Even in frog forums resources are scarce & sometimes contradictory. It makes it even harder for a newbie like me.


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## charliegill110

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I meant African Clawed Frogs. Their introduction has wiped out entire populations of indigenous frogs and salamanders.


do you know how long chytrid can survive in water without an adf host?


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## micheemak

When it hit my one tank, I looked for that type of info as well and just found conflicting reports. Some said six days, some said two weeks, and some said longer. I decided to err on the side of caution, and basically stripped the tank right down. Dipped the plants, reboiled the driftwood, threw out the substrate, cleaned the tank with a bleach solution, etc. etc. Because I use sponge filters, I was able to boil that as well, and then I just left everything to sit for a couple of days before I rebuilt the tank. I switched the boiled sponge filter with a cycled filter from a different tank. So far, so good - added a couple more frogs last week, and they seem pretty happy.

My thought process was better to overkill then to not - and end up reinfecting any other ADFs I added in future.


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## charliegill110

micheemak said:


> When it hit my one tank, I looked for that type of info as well and just found conflicting reports. Some said six days, some said two weeks, and some said longer. I decided to err on the side of caution, and basically stripped the tank right down. Dipped the plants, reboiled the driftwood, threw out the substrate, cleaned the tank with a bleach solution, etc. etc. Because I use sponge filters, I was able to boil that as well, and then I just left everything to sit for a couple of days before I rebuilt the tank. I switched the boiled sponge filter with a cycled filter from a different tank. So far, so good - added a couple more frogs last week, and they seem pretty happy.
> 
> My thought process was better to overkill then to not - and end up reinfecting any other ADFs I added in future.



well my frogs don't have chytrid, they finished their 3 month quarantine earlier this week. today i bought some shrimp and snails from petco, but they were in a tank that had adf and i think they had chytrid. there was a dead floating fuzzy adf. i have completely separate everything for my quarantine tank but don't know how long they actually need to be there before being moved to my regular tank.


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## micheemak

I have no idea. I don't think either carry chytrid, so you might be safe if you keep them seperate for a couple of weeks - but honestly, that's just a guess.

Maybe someone else on here will have a better answer for you!


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## RussellTheShihTzu

I'd take them back. My rule of thumb when I had to buy from pet stores: If there's anything dead or shimmying in the tank keep going.


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## charliegill110

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'd take them back. My rule of thumb when I had to buy from pet stores: If there's anything dead or shimmying in the tank keep going.


well i can't do that because of the distance i traveled to get them. thats why i'm quarantining them though. i felt comfortable buying them though because i spent a lot of time looking through every tank and besides the one adf there was only one other dead fish out of the whole fish section.


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