# Betta's color is dulling, belly swollen; sign of something wrong?



## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

*Housing *
What size is your tank? 5 Gallons
What temperature is your tank? Between 75F - 80F (does not fluctuate often, but it's not always the same)
Does your tank have a filter? Yes.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No, just 2 live plants.
Is your tank heated? Yes, 25W currently set at 75F and it never comes on during the day. It might come on at night, I'm not sure. I live in the south.
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None; just the plants.

*Food*
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? TopFin Betta Bits, Hikari freeze-dried bloodworms, Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food, and on occasion, Hikari freeze-dried brine shrimp.
How often do you feed your betta fish? 2 pellets in the morning, 2 at night. Approximately 5 worms every other day as a treat. The brine shrimp, just a tiny pinch once a week before the PWC; sometimes he really goes for these, other times he ignores them. The plant food is poured in once a week after the PWC.

*Maintenance* 
How often do you perform a water change? Once a week.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 1/5 (1 gallon, via gravel siphon)
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? TetraAqua AquaSafe Water Conditioner with Bio Extract. I add it to the 1 Gallon of fresh water that I prepare the day before, so when I add the new water to the tank, it is at room temperature. The next day, I test the levels. They are always "safe".

*Water Parameters:*
Have you tested your water? Yes. I test weekly.

If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.5
Hardness: It's on the soft side of normal. The numbers are at home and I'm at work now, I will update this value later to be more specific.
Alkalinity: Numbers are at home, sorry. I will update this later.

*Symptoms and Treatment*
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Body color has dulled, fins look... sad. Belly is swollen. :-(
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? No changes in behavior.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Approximately 3 weeks ago, and the change has been very gradual.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? When I perform his water change, I put him in a small, 1/2 gallon plastic tank, so he's not disturbed by the siphoning process. The past 2 weeks (since I noticed the swollen belly) I started adding 1/2 tbsp epsom salt to this water beforehand, to give him a "salt bath" while I siphon the main tank. The entire process takes about 10-15 minutes. I have to say that the swelling seems to have come down a little since I started doing this. The dulling of his colors has me scared, however.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No.
How old is your fish (approximately)? He was purchased from PetSmart approximately 6 weeks ago.

Here is a picture of Rocko now:










I can add more if requested.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

OK ladies and gentlemen; home now.

Hardness: 75
Alkalinity: 120

Just tested again, actually. All other values are the same.

Current temp is 80F even.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Just took some more pics so you can get a closer look. These guys are hard to shoot with an iPhone. 

Left side:










Right Side:


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

fosschick said:


> *Housing *
> What size is your tank? 5 Gallons
> What temperature is your tank? Between 75F - 80F (does not fluctuate often, but it's not always the same)
> Does your tank have a filter? Yes.
> ...


I suggest cutting back on the freeze dried foods altogether for a while. I suggest buying some frozen daphnia.. it will help him with any bloating and blockage. When doing the epsom salt treatment you are supposed to leave him in the 1/2 gallon quarantine container for ten days (floating in main tank). 10-15 minutes won't do much. WHile in the ten day quarantine, do daily 100% water changes with one tsp of epsom salt per gallon.

He is soo bloated.. poor guy


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

I will cut out the freeze-dried food and start the quarantine now. I wish they would say these things about over-feeding and bloating on the labels of the food, but then again they wouldn't be able to sell it, I suppose. And here I thought I was doing right by him by getting these fancy foods. 

BTW, 1/5 != 1/2. I change one-fifth of his tank at a time. I don't believe I ever said half, but I'll double-check. Should I be doing more at a time, or more frequent changes, or anything?

His water temperature is 80F right now, and will probably stay there for the rest of the summer.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Whoops I read it as one half. One fifth is too little. You should be doing at least 50%. Is your tank cycled?


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

turtle10 said:


> Whoops I read it as one half. One fifth is too little. You should be doing at least 50%. Is your tank cycled?


50% really? Okay. That's actually a bit easier for me to do anyway.

It's not properly cycled. I didn't know anything about fish, at all, when I bought Rocko, sadly. I knew enough to get a test kit (and worthless expensive food), and strangely his levels are showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 0 nitrates. The pH always stays on the lower end of "normal" at about 6.5 (not ideal, but I hate to fuss with it and stress him out), and the hardness and alk. are always 75 and 120 respectively. I am not sure why the tank tests so well without having been cycled, now that I've read up on it. :hmm: Unless it cycled with him in it before I started testing? That's awfully fast though, so I'm a bit stumped on that one, to be honest.

Thank you for the feedback, and for helping me make my fish more comfortable.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Update:

It's been a week in the 1/2 gal hospital tank, floating in the main tank. Hospital tank has 1/4 tsp epsom salt, and water conditioner. I do a 100% water change daily. I keep a pitcher of water ready to go that I prepare the day before so the water is conditioned, salt is dissolved, and water is room temp. It's been very warm here, so the hospital tank has stayed right at 80F for the whole week. I also did a 100% water change in the main tank and vacuumed the gravel so it will be ready for him. 

I fasted him for 2 days, and then fed him frozen (thawed) daphnia which he readily consumed. He took 2 big poops the next day. The day after that I gave him 2 frozen (thawed) bloodworms, with more daphnia. Again the next day, he pooped a lot. 

However, he isn't getting any smaller. In fact, he's getting bigger (more bloated in the stomach). So I'm going to fast him some more, at least with the frozen blood worms. I'm glad he's pooping, but it doesn't appear to be helping the swollen belly. I don't want him to starve, but he cannot be comfortable like this, and it breaks my heart.

To reiterate, he hasn't had any freeze-dried foods, nor any other food not found in nature (no pellets, no flakes). I can't figure out why he's still bloated.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Oops, I meant to also mention something positive: His color is more vibrant, and his fins look great. There is marked improvement there, however it's overshadowed by the swollen belly. It's evenly swollen still, just like in the previous pictures, so it's not just on one side. Also he's swimming around normally and behaving as if nothing is wrong.


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## Cassandra90 (Aug 16, 2010)

Have you tried fasting him? 
Is there any poop? He may be constipated.

Fasting may help, I would try to fast for 2 to 4 days and watch for poop. If Rock doesn't then try feeding him peas. Soft peas broke up without the shell can help if it is constipation. 

Also use epsom salt, use the recommended dosage, I use API Freshwater Aquarium salt.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Is he really old?


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Neil D said:


> Is he really old?


Nope, just purchased less than 2 months ago. :-?

I'm guessing it will just take time, and more pooping. I'm being impatient because he looks uncomfortable, even though he's not acting like it. At least his coloring is improving.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Oh. Keep on the water changes and monitor water params. Hope he poops! And gets better!


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

His belly is enormous now. He's not constipated. He's eating and pooping normally, although has a MUCH better diet now, and it shows in his color and fins. His diet consists of live and frozen foods from a reputable LFS.

He's back in his main tank, and acting as if nothing is wrong. No swimming issues. Making bubble nests! Playing. Happy.

But he seriously looks as if he swallowed a marble.

I'll continue with the 50% water changes once a week, as his tank is established and filtered.

Water params today:

Temp: 80F
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
pH: 6.5
Hardness: 75
Alkalinity: 120


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Maybe he's deformed. Or it's a gene. Fast him. Soak the pellets. Don't feed freeze dried(lots of air). He seems fine from ur description. Hope the swelling goes down...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

The swollen belly may be from parasites.

I had a young CT - F with a swollen belly and cranky attitude. Went through all of the above trying to unconstipate him... she pooped alot, but still continued to swell.

I got some anti - parasite food - and the belly has gone way down. Another couple weeks of treatment are left (three contiguous days anti-parasite food for 6 weeks). She doesn't like the food much (I do crush it, so it is bite sized for her), but over three days, she eats some.

Her attitude has majorly changed - she used to be so mean, attacking the other girls - and eats less (she used to eat everything in sight). Thank goodness I figured out what was wrong!

There are other reasons for bloat - like bacterial infections, for instance. Just wanted you to know what happened in our situation.

Good luck to you and your betta! Hope your buddy feels better soon.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> The swollen belly may be from parasites.
> 
> I had a young CT - F with a swollen belly and cranky attitude. Went through all of the above trying to unconstipate him... she pooped alot, but still continued to swell.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking the time to read this dense thread and offer your experience. It really means a lot! I'm going to start some serious parasite investigation now. Rocko isn't cranky, but everything else fits. (Then again, I wouldn't know what cranky looked like as he's my first fish.) I've read you can examine the feces on slides (with a microscope) directly. Did you go that far, or just get lucky, with the diagnosis?  I'll keep reading up on this.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

fosschick said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to read this dense thread and offer your experience. It really means a lot! I'm going to start some serious parasite investigation now. Rocko isn't cranky, but everything else fits. (Then again, I wouldn't know what cranky looked like as he's my first fish.) I've read you can examine the feces on slides (with a microscope) directly. Did you go that far, or just get lucky, with the diagnosis?  I'll keep reading up on this.


I do not have a microscope here (although I have several high powered magnifers); but, I didn't need one. I noticed 'thread' like projections from the fish's 'nether regions'... and from what I've researched, that spells parasites.

Regular betta poop looks like really tiny cinnamon buns (I didn't come up with this description, but its very accurate), not like threads or string...

I am watching this fish carefully. I'm not entirely convinced I've nailed the bloat completely. She's still rounder than I'd like and I suspect there is something still amiss. I know the parasites are nearly resolved. Now I've got to figure out what else is going on. Her ovi positer looks inflammed. So I'm back to the 'net, to do some more research.

How did people keep fish alive before the internet??? LOL...


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Very carefully...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

My mom did it in the 1970's and she made it look easy. *sigh* Ah, the good old days, before antibiotic-resistant bacterias and such...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I am hoping she is just 'eggy', but not sure yet... all my other bettas are sleeker than her...


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## jackals (Jul 20, 2010)

for treating a sick betta (the salt route) what is the difference between epsom salt and api Aquarium salt?

My betta is sick and I bought API aq salt, but someone said epsom is better.. what is the difference?


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## orphansparrow (Apr 30, 2011)

have you considered that it may be dropsy? the symptoms of dropsy are an abnormally bloated belly and raised scales. the bloatedness is usually fluid build up in the tissues, caused by kidney failure. it is fatal. i really really hope this isn't what it is...but here is a link to another site that talks about it:

http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

orphansparrow,

Nope, not drospy.... no 'pine-coning'... she remains active, eating and such. I 'bloat' at this point is very small and symetrical... I'm leaning more to 'eggy' at this point... but the original constipation and parasites she was treated for are under control...

jackals,

Espom salt is not really a salt... its really magnesium sulfate!

It is a constipation cure for fishes, along with an anti-inflamation aspect and anti-bacterial properties. 

Espom salt treatments (and other salt treatments) should last no more than 10 days. 

Oldfishlady is the one who introduced me to espsom salt use, and knows the best concentrations of what salts to use and for how long, for a number of things. 

The thing about aquarium salt is that some people use it all the time, to 'ward off' dieases. But there are drawbacks to this:

1. The tank bacteria can build up an immunity to the salt, making it useless for treatments.

2. If added to the tank weekly without water changes, it can poision the fish and kill them (kidney failure).

3. Some species of fish (like Cory Cats and loaches) cannot tolerate salt - it chemically burns them.

There are a number of threads by OFL (OldFishLady) regarding specific treatments for specific ailments. Do a search on the forum for her posts... you'll learn alot by reading them (I did)!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

"I 'bloat' ".... LOL... I meant "the 'bloat'"!


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## jackals (Jul 20, 2010)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> orphansparrow,
> 
> Nope, not drospy.... no 'pine-coning'... she remains active, eating and such. I 'bloat' at this point is very small and symetrical... I'm leaning more to 'eggy' at this point... but the original constipation and parasites she was treated for are under control...
> 
> ...


Thank you for that summary.. if you see my thread in the habitat/bowls section.. she recommended for my guy epsom salt. She seems to know a good deal about these fish. I just got some and doing a 100% water change.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Jackals,

Great! Yes, she does know a lot!


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

orphansparrow said:


> have you considered that it may be dropsy? the symptoms of dropsy are an abnormally bloated belly and raised scales. the bloatedness is usually fluid build up in the tissues, caused by kidney failure. it is fatal. i really really hope this isn't what it is...but here is a link to another site that talks about it:
> 
> betta diseases


Hello 

In Rocko's case, there is no pineconing and the only bloated bit is his abdomen. He's also acting normally, as well as eating and pooping normally. I *think* can cross Dropsy off the list, but thank you just the same!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

fosschick,

I am also pretty sure Rocko isn't eggy, lol....


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> fosschick,
> 
> I am also pretty sure Rocko isn't eggy, lol....


:jester: That would be quite a surprise!


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Just an update on Rocko for those who are following: He's still swimming around happily, eating, and pooping. I added some water sprite as well as some floating moss to his tank, which baffles the filter output significantly. (Moss is strategically held in place near the output. I also put a bit of hermit crab sponge near the bottom of the intake tube. What you do to one side of the equation should be done to the other, is my guess. At least it works in math.) I really think he's enjoying the water being more still. I made sure the filter and bio-wheel were still operating normally after I did these modifications.

I'm feeding him (alternating) frozen bloodworms, fresh blackworms, and frozen daphnia. He still gets fasted regularly, but I'm limiting that to once a week. He only gets the daphnia once a week, the day before the fasting, for no particular reason. (Just trial and error here.) Sometimes I get this crazy notion that he should have some pellet food, which is not found in nature. So I'll cut one in half, put half in there, and he sucks it up, chews for a bit, then spits it back out. I then retrieve the remains of the pellet... Not sure what I'm going to do if I need to give him medicated pellets, other than try the garlic juice trick.

I've also switched his conditioner to Prime, and have been keeping up with my 50% weekly water changes.

I tested his water before adding the sprite and moss, and changing the conditioner. The results are identical to after the change (with a day in between). Here they are:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
pH: 7.4
Nitrate: Between 0 and 5ppm (using the API freshwaster master test guide). It's always looked closer to 0 than 5 though. So maybe 0. With all of the plant life in there I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Still bloated as ever. I took some pictures, but I'll have to upload them a little later.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Great to hear! Glad he's still a happy fish. I ur gonna feed worms more, go for the live ones, or frozen, because freeze dried should be fed once a week. (SBD encouraging) Good Luck!


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Neil D said:


> Great to hear! Glad he's still a happy fish. I ur gonna feed worms more, go for the live ones, or frozen, because freeze dried should be fed once a week. (SBD encouraging) Good Luck!


I'm feeding him frozen bloodworms, live blackworms, and frozen daphnia. Nothing freeze-dried at all! :thumbsup:

Thank you though for looking out for us!  :fish:


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Ur Welcome. Just making sure... (abou the worms...)


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm glad he's feeling upbeat.  They're so funny after they've had frozen or live. They go... Ptoooey! with pellets and then give you a look.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Josh has never done that yet...lol


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

*sigh*

UPDATE:

:-?

So when do you think his babies are due? I just hope he lives long enough to see his fry grow into adulthood:










This was just after a PWC. I vacuumed the gravel and left him in the tank while doing so which seems to have stressed him out a bit.


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

When I woke up this morning he was pooping, so I took a video for your enjoyment.  Sorry about the camera work, I hadn't had my coffee yet.

I hope this helps to rule out constipation?


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I'm sure you don't have a he-she betts;-) that looks like a male to me


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Neil D said:


> I'm sure you don't have a he-she betts;-) that looks like a male to me


Then why does he look like he's about to give birth to ten million fry? :lol:

Poor guy!! I don't know what to do. He's got something wrong with him (kidney failure?) and I don't know how to treat it.  I'm fairly sure (from looking at his poop) that it's not parasites, but I could be wrong. I haven't seen any other symptoms.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I thought kidney failure was severely painful to bettas? Anyway,maybe it's a genetic thing?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Unfortunately, aside from taking him to a vet, I'm not sure what else might help. You could PM OFL on the bettafish.com forum and see if she has any suggestions. Her experiance and knowledge far exceeds mine 

Good Luck... I'm glad Rocko's not in any serious pain, but his belly is extremely worrisome...


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Update: He had a long stringy poop! See my thread about it here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...s/need-help-identifying-poop-parasites-69706/

Maybe we'll finally have an answer soon. :fish:


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

That looks like what my female betta had, before I put her on Jungle anti-parasite food....

That may not be his only problem, though... his belly is very big...


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

@ fosschick

Ur post was so funny! I can imagine a teen running into her parents bedroom and saying "my betta pooped! He pooped!!!! Yeah!!!!" 

Now we return to our original thread...


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## fosschick (Apr 10, 2011)

Rocko passed away this morning, after a long illness that started pretty much immediately after we got him from PetSmart. 

Thank you so much for all of your help with Rocko.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Oh, I'm so sorry. It happens though. If u do choose to keep another fish, I'd take it down and REALLY CLEAN it. Sorry again.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm really sorry to hear that.  At least he's not feeling any pain or suffering.


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