# Clamped Fins and White Cotton ball under bell...



## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey

I am very new to this forum but just wanted to get my two-sense in. I have a male betta for about a year now and recently he has gotten pretty sick. About a month ago he was all faded in color and barely pushing along. I treated him for a fungal infection after talking to the pet store about him and he came back to normal activity. Now he just started developing a white ball on his underside - which i believe is another fungal infection. I went out and bought aquarium salt, treating him with pimafix and melafix. Changed water out completely after first treatment of pimafix about two weeks ago. The tank is 1.5gallon and has a tiny 1-3gal tetra whisper filter in it. Water temp is at 78-81 range and I just today took filter out after treating him for two days prior with meds. On top of this I recently learned that he has clamped fins - and this is probably due to him being stressed and sick. I am wondering if the continuation of meds that I am giving him right now will hopefully bring him to a bright and happy betta again. All i want is for him to spread his fins.

I am open to any advice and appreciate all the knowledge that is already on this forum. If anyone can chime in and let me know what steps I should take or am taken in the right direction I would appreciate that.

Speak soon and wish me luck.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry you are having problems....have a few questions....

He is in a 1.5gal filtered/heated tank-how much and how often are the water changes and when was the last one, what type of additives used, if any, what type of food and how much fed, how is his appetite today.
You have had him for a year and treated for fungal infection and now he has clamped fins, white substance on his stomach...any other symptoms....


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Sorry you are having problems....have a few questions....
> 
> He is in a 1.5gal filtered/heated tank-how much and how often are the water changes and when was the last one, what type of additives used, if any, what type of food and how much fed, how is his appetite today.
> You have had him for a year and treated for fungal infection and now he has clamped fins, white substance on his stomach...any other symptoms....


Thanks and see if these answers help out...

I know for a fact the water changes and how frequent they are is why he is sick. I will be honest and tell you that its gotten pretty bad sometimes that the tank is only a quarter filled with water before i change it. This is not all the time but i would say every month i changed it. I know thats so bad, but I just learned this the past couple of weeks - sorry!

I just changed his water on Tuesday and he went back in tank on weds. I added the pimafix on Tuesday with fresh water,new filter, and heat. Then on weds he was put back into the tank...I went to the pet store on weds and shopped around for some meds. I picked up melafix along with some aquarium salt. That night I added both the melafix and salt to the tank along with the pimafix, filter running, and heat.

I usually feed in the am once a day and sometimes i give him some more food in the afternoon. He used to take TOP FIN Betta Bits, but lately hes been eating the OMEGA ONE Betta buffet flakes. Today he is very awake and when i take the lid off to say hi and feed him this AM he was buzzing all around. He would take flake into his mouth suck on it then spit it out. usually he takes and swallows but today i did notice he wasn't doing that with all pieces that went into his mouth.

Those are the only symptoms I can make out right now...cotton ball on underside, clamped fins, and the fungal infection....

Now that I recall I don't think from day one I have ever seen his fins totally opened....but this is my mission to give him a better surrounding than i HAVE.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Oh my, poor man.. changing the water so infrequently in a tank that size, I'm honestly surprised he's still alive.

Melafix and Pimafix aren't real medications that are going to deal with this problem. They are antiseptics--so using them has the effect of putting peroxide on a cut. If he has something serious going on internally, they're not going to help. Some research has also suggested that the melaleuca in melafix produces fumes that are harmful to a betta's labyrinth organ--what they use to breathe air from above the surface.

First of all, you need to get your water quality under control immediately. In a half gallon tank you should be doing 100% water changes *every day*, especially in his current state. Given that he is active, I think what you're dealing with is water mold or saprolegnia--if it was columnaris he'd probably be a lot less responsive. I am not there and cannot guarantee what I don't experience first hand, of course, but given your description that seems like a plausible conclusion. 

If this is the case, you are fortunate. Sapro moves more slowly than bacteria and is more treatable. In this situation, I would use salt and methylene blue and see how he reacts. If his condition worsens despite methylene blue, salt, and clean water, then consider a broad spectrum antibiotic.

It may be easier to keep up with maintenance if you get him a larger temporary container, such as a rubbermaid or sterilite plastic storage bin. These bins are only about $3 for 2-4 gallon containers and they're very light and durable. They aren't the best looking, but make fantastic hospital containers because they're long and shallow--so the fish has swimming space but doesn't have to struggle to get to the surface to breathe. Just something to consider.


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

OK awesome advice....

Now can I pick up the methylene blue at pet smart or petco? Also, whats the best way to do a complete 100% water change? And leaving the filter off a smart bet? I'm sorry if im being annoying with the questions but im just willing and on a mission to help this little guy. I feel real bad inside and want to try and make it up to him. I can run out now to the store and get the meds and container if need be - just need to know how to do a 100% water change the right way....also whats the best way to transfer him from container to container..

Hey thanks again!


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## Ajones108 (Jul 7, 2010)

I think PetCo has methylene blue. If it doesn't, petsmart does.

I do not net my bettas when I do water changes. Using their store cup or a clear cup like a dixie cup with a smooth edge, I scoop them carefully from their water, with some of their old water, while I do the water change. I rinse the tank, add new water about the same temp as the old water, add dechlorinator, and then I take some of the new water and add it to his cup to adjust in water pram changes. If the cup will do it, I let the cup float in the tank to properly acclimate to temperature. I drastically draw out my 100% water change acclimations.

50/50 with old water and new water for 15 minutes

75/25 new water/old water dumping out some of the cup water in a separate bowl to be disposed of, not re-added to the tank, for 15 minutes

And then I do a 90/10ish with the new/old water, and after that I dump the most of his cup in the bowl to be disposed of, and then slowly lower the cup into the tank sideways to let it fill with water, and he swims out.

Although with a 1/2 a tank, you wouldn't be able to really do this cause... Well, his cup would be the same size as the tank...


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Ajones108 said:


> I think PetCo has methylene blue. If it doesn't, petsmart does.
> 
> I do not net my bettas when I do water changes. Using their store cup or a clear cup like a dixie cup with a smooth edge, I scoop them carefully from their water, with some of their old water, while I do the water change. I rinse the tank, add new water about the same temp as the old water, add dechlorinator, and then I take some of the new water and add it to his cup to adjust in water pram changes. If the cup will do it, I let the cup float in the tank to properly acclimate to temperature. I drastically draw out my 100% water change acclimations.
> 
> ...



Hi, I think I understand what you mean by changing out the water in increments...

I will just slowly add new water into the as I take out the old.

He is cornering himself this morning...flapping his wings when he hears me but will not move from facing the corner. I am going to go track dow the M.Blue stuff and maybe search around for some temporary container I can use to med him in.

Now doing these 100%water changes everyday...is this something I will always need to do unless I upgrade his tank size? I am going to get a bigger tank size but was going to hold off for a couple of months until I move into a new home, but from the sounds of it I think i need to this now to help my betta.

Fins are extra clamped today also, and water seems to be a bit foggy (I think this is from the medication in it and me taking the filter out).

Thanks and keep the advice coming....


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Yes, you should remove the filter and you will need to keep doing 100% water changes either every day or at most every other day in a tank this size. You have to understand that fish constantly excrete a toxic substance, ammonia, from their gills as waste. This is like their form of urine. In nature, this would be broken down into a less toxic substance by beneficial bacteria, consumed by plants, and diluted across much larger quantities of water. Because none of these components are at work in your tank, you have to compensate by performing frequent 100% changes.

If you get a larger filtered tank 3-5 gallons or so (the bigger the better), the you can cultivate beneficial bacteria in your filter and even grow live plants if you have the proper lighting. This will greatly diminish the maintenance necessary to keep your fish healthy--so instead of 100% every day or every other day, you only have to do one 30%-50% change a week, which is a lot nicer! 

Is he still eating/showing interest in food?


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Adastra said:


> Yes, you should remove the filter and you will need to keep doing 100% water changes either every day or at most every other day in a tank this size. You have to understand that fish constantly excrete a toxic substance, ammonia, from their gills as waste. This is like their form of urine. In nature, this would be broken down into a less toxic substance by beneficial bacteria, consumed by plants, and diluted across much larger quantities of water. Because none of these components are at work in your tank, you have to compensate by performing frequent 100% changes.
> 
> If you get a larger filtered tank 3-5 gallons or so (the bigger the better), the you can cultivate beneficial bacteria in your filter and even grow live plants if you have the proper lighting. This will greatly diminish the maintenance necessary to keep your fish healthy--so instead of 100% every day or every other day, you only have to do one 30%-50% change a week, which is a lot nicer!
> 
> Is he still eating/showing interest in food?


Make total sense...I'm in the process of getting a new setup for him with a new ADA tank and live plants throughout. So I think once I can get him to recover i should be good to go. 

I have not fed him today and will not. I'm going to let him just chill today and take in the meds. 

I went to two pet store...PetSmart and a Pets Plus around me. Neither had the methylene blue so after stopping at the second store they called over to another store in our area and spoke with them. After no one having the product they cam up with having me get the API Fungus Cure (10) pack powder solution. So I went and picked up a 4gallon rubbermaid tub cheap and did a 50% new water/50% old water with aquarium salt. I let this new tub sit until it hit the proper temp and then just now I released the betta in with the fungus powder solution.

Tank is all green now....but I am hoping this works.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Good luck! I hope he pulls through for you!!


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks....

I woke up this morning to see my betta cornering himself again and I noticed his color is kind of fading. He is a blue betta and now since the new meds the skin of him seems a bit yellowish. Mind you the API Fungus Cure Powder turned the water green so this might be offsetting his skin color a bit. It says to use the meds for 48 hours, then change 25% of water and use a second dosage of the powder for another 48 hours. I'm guessing after this 4 days he should make a come around...but I don't know.

If he doesn't I'm wondering if I should go through with another dose of the meds....

I did notice that his white cotton growth on his underbelly turned a bit red in the middle of it yesterday - kind of like a blood blister or something. Not sure if this is normal or what.


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

Hi

So after treating my betta for the fungus infection with the API green powder solution it seems I have diagnosed a new issue. I believe after doing lots of ready and my betta's color beginning to disappear and a copper like tint to come across his body...i think he has velvet. This sucksssssss!!!!! He was a little bit more active a few days ago and kinda nipping on food, but today he didn't even bother and is less movable. 

Now I just did a 25% water change with new fresh treated water mixed with 75% of the API treated water. I setup my 1.5 gallon again and put the filter back on. Temp is up to about 81 right now and betta is quarantined in his cup with the 100% APR treated water. I was going to wait a bit until the tank takes proper setup and then maybe add betta back in. Now i can't figure out how to get the photos and video uploaded so if someone could please email me at [email protected] I can send you the files and you can examine yourself. I would like to figure out what steps to take now since I think its velvet, but I know the amount of stress this little guy is in.

Please HELP guys!!!!!

Thanks!


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

NO ONE IS OUT THERE!!!!! He is now floating at the top of surface and fighting for each breath as his gills are opening/closing very rapidly. I treated the tank with Coppersafe last night and will be performing a 50% water change in a few minutes and adding a bit more of coppersafe to compensate for what I am taken out within the 50% water change. I'm hoping this little guy pulls through bc right now he looks very bad.

Will this Coppersafe kick in soon..?

Water temp are at 81-83 and water has been treated with AQ Salt, Ammonia solution, and water conditioner. Let me know if this Coppersafe with begin to make a turn around or if this fish is on his last breaths....

PLEASE SOMEONE RESPOND!!!!

Thanks!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

When a fish immune response is compromised due to poor water quality and along with multi medications/treatments/chemical additives-sudden shift in water conditions with a water change in neglected environment.....often this will stress/shock the fish to a point of a poor prognosis.

With the added diagnosis of velvet and added coppersafe and other chemicals this fish is really stressed-personally I would do a clean dechlorinated water treatment, lower the water level so he doesn't have to struggle to reach air, no filter, no lights, quiet dark place to recover and nothing else after 48h of the coppersafe...he may be able to help himself if its not too late......

-untreated velvet can be fatal- but over treatment with harsh chemicals also can be fatal....if you can nip the velvet and give him conditions so that his immune response can kick in........he may have a chance so he can help himself........

It sounds like you have tried really hard to help your Betta and I wish your Betta a speedy recovery.....


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

OldFishLady

Thanks for that quick response yesterday. I am finally getting a minute to write back after trying a few things.

Well i ended up doing about 50% new clean treated water and added a bit more coppersafe to compensate for the 50%loss of existing treated water. I turned filter off and have no lights on in the tank. The heater is on and temps are around 84. He has just been sitting behind the filter for the past day...struggling for each breath. When he sees or hears me near tank he does try to wiggle a bit to say hi, but you can tell he's stressed.

Now, I was going to let the water stay like it is until tomorrow before I do another water change...does this make sense? Or should I do a 100% water change tonight? Would it help if I added some aq salt in his tank each day or once is enough? Just searching for answers because I haven't seen any signs of him getting better from any treatments.

Anyone's advice is def a big help and I thank everyone's responses. I am just so determined to bring this little fishy back to his normal self.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Don't add more salt unless you change his water. It sounds like if he has warm, clean water, you're doing the best you can, and it's just up to him to fight through it.

I don't really know about the water change, but I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want to stress him, and I'm not sure what the instructions are for coppersafe.


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

*FINALLY PICTURES for viewing...Check out this little guy and let me know ur thoughts!*

So

It's been about 2 days now and the my little guy is still with us. He def is more alert and I even got him to eat 3 days in a row now. I have not changed the water for two days because I did not wanna put more stress on this little guy after all the meds I was adding to the water. I am prepping about 60% water right now to change out in about 2 hours once it reaching proper temps. I finally got some pictures uploaded to my site and please view and let me know what you think of the WHITE growth and dis-coloration in the fins. 

I am hoping to just let him have his own immune system kick in and see if by keeping clean water and the temps right, he will come around.

PLEASE bring all the comments because they are much appreciated.

http://gallery.me.com/andrew.bartynski#100411

:-----(!!!


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

I rather wish you could have managed to get methylene blue and do water changes rather than go with an antibiotic treatment--it seems like all it did was weaken him and cause more secondary infections. Pet store employees can be so pesky. 

Truthfully I'm not sure whether the white growth is fungus or bacteria--usually sapro is a little more gray, and usually bacteria doesn't have strands of fluff that are quite that fluffy looking. He also seems to be bloated--how much did you feed him?

It seems like he would benefit from a medication break, especially since he seems to be improving--I would keep the water as clean as possible with salt or methylene blue if you can find it. Give him a lot of darkness and quiet so that he can rest.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Good job and great news...glad to hear he is doing better-I would really work on those daily water changes to keep the bacteria levels low.......you may want to start with a salt treatment now to help with what looks to be a bacterial or fungal infection

Aquarium salt 1tsp/gal along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days

I like to pre-mix the salt in a 1gal jug to make water changes and dosage easier-he needs to stay in the saline solution 24/7X10days along with daily water changes
I would also feed small amount several times a day-if you have access to any live foods like mosquito larva that would help him a lot or even some fresh crushed garlic juice on his food
I use fresh/frozen shrimp and smash it together with fresh crushed garlic and blanched spinach-it a great balanced high protein food when you don't have live....


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

A great thing to remember about this forum is that if you ever feel you need to (like your thread is getting no attention) you can get in touch with knowledgeable people by clicking on their avatar or username (this takes you to their profile) then Contacting them through Private Message. =]

So have you done any 100% changes so far?


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## Barchinski (Oct 1, 2010)

*New Picture and video...*

HI,

Thanks for the great responses I will take all knowledge shared by others and learn from it. Take a look at the link for 1 new picture and a video. When you open the link the first two items, from left to right, are the new ones. Let me know if the picture of the white growth is any more visible to figure out what it is.

http://gallery.me.com/andrew.bartynski#100411&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=0

I did a 80% water change last night, and 3 days ago a 100%. Was going to do another 80% later tonight.


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