# Help a newbie!!!



## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

I tried breeding my red HMPK pair, standard set up. 10g tank, ketapang leaf, jar for the female. The male built his nest under the styrofoam cup, a huge one in fact. I released the male and left them for 1 hour. After 1 hour, i checked on them and saw the female anal's fin tore. What should I do? I seperated them now, and im reconditioning them again. What was my mistake? The Male was VERY VERY agressive. the pair could chase each other and swim very quickly. What should I do? Im still planning to breed the pair.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

Was the only fin damage the torn anal fin? Did you condition them for two weeks? Some aggression is completely normal!


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes only the anal fin was torn. Conditioned for 2 weeks. Any advice? Im trying to condition them more before I try again.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

Here is a sticky that will help you. I think the best advice I can give you is Research research research!!!!!

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30005


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

But the female dont display her bars. What should I do? I placed her in the jar for 4 days and no bars yet...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

"Patience is the key to success" .... 
1. How big/old are they? IMO adequate size is 3.5 cm and above.

2. No v bars means she isn't ready. You must isolate her and try flaring her once in a while. Don't show her any males at the moment. Use other females or mirrors. When she is aggressive against the other/mirror like she's saying "I'm gonna kill ya", try floating her again with the male. If she dances (or flaring) with the male and showing vertical bars, She is ready. Wait 2 - 3 days then release her.

3. Use a lot of live plants so the female can run and hide. She will be bitten. This is normal. Some males beat females half to death while others may not touch them. So If you have done the above, there's nothing you can do about the aggression.

Good luck.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

indjo said:


> "Patience is the key to success" ....
> 1. How big/old are they? IMO adequate size is 3.5 cm and above.
> 
> 2. No v bars means she isn't ready. You must isolate her and try flaring her once in a while. Don't show her any males at the moment. Use other females or mirrors. When she is aggressive against the other/mirror like she's saying "I'm gonna kill ya", try floating her again with the male. If she dances (or flaring) with the male and showing vertical bars, She is ready. Wait 2 - 3 days then release her.
> ...


im gonna try that. But can I also flare her with another male at the same time?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

For what reason?
Unless the female is isolated, she would not normally flare at males. Or in other words, females are afraid of males (if they are the same size). So if the female is stressed/afraid (or what ever) in the first place, she will not gain her self esteem which is essential to "force breed" a female. 
But once she has gained an attitude, yes you can flare her to a male, specially a short finned male.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

I tried flaring her with my mg female and she's like " oh hi " then swims away


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

You need to let them see each other and let him keep the nest going, Feed them the best food you can... When she start's swimming back at him or flaring back at him she is ready, Also if she get's bar's then she should be ready, And I mean bar's not strips you want bar's like up and down... The other thing is you need to expect her to get some torn fin's, this is all part of him making her go to the nest and spawn. The other thing is you need to have plenty of live plant's this give's her a lot of place's to hall butt from him, Left then right and he can't keep up. So she don't get very much torn fin's and she goes to the nest and spawn's when she's ready...
The next thing is once you release the pair the tank need's to be covered. The fish need to be undisturbed once released. When he see's you he will get excited and and chase after her plus when they see you they think about food because there used to being fed when you show up. And the last thing is just because a couple hour's went by and you didn't get a spawn don't mean anything.. I once had a pair together for 9 day's before they spawn, I was going to give up on them and remove her in the next day or too and on the 9th day they spawn.
So as long as you got plenty of hiding place's and live plant's and he is not going up to her like a male on male and trying to rip her apart then Don't mess with them. You will get it...


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Yea, its been said a few times now. Patiences. You entered the wrong game if you were looking for speed racing.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

I wasn't lookng for speed racing, I was worried that the female may get lethal injuries. I observed them for 5 mins, and the last 2 mins, the pair kept swimming around so fast that there's current In the water. I have separated them , the female anal fin healed, should I condition them again?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

LoveSGSE said:


> I tried flaring her with my mg female and she's like " oh hi " then swims away


I don't know why but aggressive males/females are easier to breed.... I guess they're not called fighters for nothing. lol. If she is just saying "hi" then it may be some time before she will breed. This is why you have to isolate her. Try total isolation for at least 24 hours in the dark. Then flare her the next day. A tiny flare at first is a good start.

Yes you should recondition the breeding pair. If you feel the male is over aggressive, isolate the female in the breeding tank and let her get familiar with her surroundings, hiding places, escape routes etc. Once in a while show another female or mirror. When she adapts an attitude, try showing a ready male (swims differently, like showing off/dancing OR makes bubble nest). If she swims in a similar way, you can immediately release the male (probably a lot of torn fins) OR let them see each other for at least 24 hours before releasing. 

Try releasing the male in the late afternoon, about 1 hour before dark. Don't light the tank at night. This will let them sense each other and become familiar. Remember, either way you'll end up with torn fins. That's just how they are.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do and on how things go....


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## Bloodeath (Aug 22, 2010)

i didnt completely read over this thread, so i dont know if its been said but...




> 2. No v bars means she isn't ready. You must isolate her and try flaring her once in a while. Don't show her any males at the moment. Use other females or mirrors. When she is aggressive against the other/mirror like she's saying "I'm gonna kill ya", try floating her again with the male. If she dances (or flaring) with the male and showing vertical bars, She is ready. Wait 2 - 3 days then release her.


This is not neccesarily true. my female mated just fine showing no vertical bars at all. and only after 1 week of being conditioned. and there was minimal fin nipping, on a count of the female being 3x quicker than the male.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bloodeath said:


> This is not neccesarily true. my female mated just fine showing no vertical bars at all. and only after 1 week of being conditioned. and there was minimal fin nipping, on a count of the female being 3x quicker than the male.


Yes, I agree with you. But I was referring to LoveSGSE's reluctant female. Her female has been chased and bitten, and or has been floated for four days and still won't respond to the male.

Notice on the next posts that I refer to the swimming (dancing) instead of the bars as a sign of readiness.


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## Bloodeath (Aug 22, 2010)

Ok. now that ive fully read this thread (Lol should of done that first). 

My best advice is like what everyone else is saying essentially.

Condition them again...only this time, condition HIM to Her, not vice a versa. 
you've got to understand a male betta will flare/get excited over all most anything. 
like my VT Constantly makes a huge nest just because (From what i can tell) he genuinely thinks the cory cats are females, i say that because hes delivering the exact same attitude as males do when their trying to impress females.

But on the other hand, females are a little bit more picky. i mean, i tried doing 2 breeds at once. like in seperate breeding tanks, with seperate couples, after being conditioned for the same amount of time.

and my current (So far successful) Spawn, when i actually "Introduced them to each other" (Took out the divider) There was NO fin nipping, just dancing and a very little bit of chasing. But the difference was, is instead of actually taking the divider out, i scooped up the male, and put him in the females side of the tank, and then took out the divider, not to put him into shock, but to make him i guess a little bit less aggressive and a little bit less like "Hey this is my home, im top dog" and they were fine, really fun to watch.

But on the other hand, in my other tank, we scooped up the female and put her in the males side, and within 5 minutes max, part of her back fin (like on the end of her body, not below her body, i forget the name xD) got ripped off. and i mean, like a good chunk, enough to scare us and take her out and instantly give up on him.

In my eyes, some pairs are really just not ment for each other.

I'd suggest just reconditioning them and trying them again, and if its as violent as last time, give up on that pair and consider trying a more aggressive female.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

Ok, I'm going to condition them and keep you guys updated. Thanks for the help


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Try some Nutra Fin Max Betta Water Conditioner to add to your water. And try not putting salt in the tank. Since I've started doing this my most aggresive males anf females have been able to breed with minimal damage.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

I did add water conditioner... And I dont put salt into the tank at all


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

LoveSGSE said:


> I did add water conditioner... And I dont put salt into the tank at all


 I know but add some of Nutrafin Max. I add it to my regular water conditioner and I get spawns and less aggression.


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

Ok, I'll try it. Thanks for the advise!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

LoveSGSE said:


> Ok, I'll try it. Thanks for the advise!


 No problem


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## LoveSGSE (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey guys, can u release the female tomorrow? I left the pair there for 2days, the male made a huge nest. But the female has no bars,clamp fins or anything... Please reply!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't think so. She should at least show one sign of readiness. Try isolating the female for a day or two and float her again.

Remember don't rush them. Because it might only hurt the female.


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## FloridaBettas239 (Jun 29, 2010)

Take her away from him dont let her see him for 12 to 24 hour's, Then start letting them see each other again, she should be excited to see him!! also letting her see another female why her and the male are conditioning and seeing each other, will make her say he is mine and want to show off more for him....


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