# eggs not hatching



## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

hi all I just a spawn and all looked great with but none of the eggs are hatching out.Any help with this would be great last 2 spawns one of them did the same thing so i was wondering if maybe the male would do all he was to do in a spawn but furtilization of the eggs .Cause water is right temp. may be a little low .:frustrated:


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

1. How long since laid? Male should eat unfertilized eggs. 
2. Have you successfully spawned them in the past? Either male or female might be infertile. I suggest you use different pair (I once had an infertile male and his eggs never hatched regardless what I do).
3. How were they conditioned? Sometimes health influences fertility.

A little low/high temp, pH, and other water prams are acceptable as long as they're stable. It's constant fluctuation that they can't tolerate.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

he did eat some and then stop has been 3 day's so had like 100 egg's water temp. may have been it only 72 but they acked great i had almond leaf in water and add green water soon as i pulled female.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

72 is tooooo low to even keep betta's in. They need at least 78 degrees so that is one problem. Also you were suppose to remove the female after the eggs were laid. She hasn't been removed yet? You need to remove her immediately.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

she was taken out at the end of the spawn . as far as 78 on bettas i keep all my bettas at room temp. so 78 would be a little hot I think and seeing how i have about 30 fry's from my frist spawn at room temp. Realy don't it being that big of a deal egg's just hatch slower .both males from last 2 spawn was frist time to spawn and did a lot more fighting than my frist spawn . willtry again with temp. up see what happens.


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

72 is too cold for betta's in general, they are tropical fish and I am shocked you didn't lose more babies and have serious deformities from your other spawns. Sold water can cause spawn to deform during growth. Also fish fighting isn't caused by warmer water it's caused by improper conditioning.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

would you care to tell me how long you been raiseing bettas ?


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Look, Bettas in the wild live in Southeast Asia. IT'S ALWAYS WARM AND TROPICAL THERE. Bettas are tropical fish period. Why come here for advice when you won't accept it? My dad introduced me to fish since I was 5 so please... Just take our advice.


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## BettaFx (Oct 15, 2012)

lady up there is right. 72 is pretty low. To be honest here in canada it gets cold but it try my best to aim for 75 lowest. having that said I honestly do not think temperature was the reason it did not hatch. Possibly the female was infertile or male didn't have enough sperm. Either way male should eat unfertilized eggs.

-try again. you should expect them to hatch 24-30 hours after spawning. try to keep the temperature 75 lowest for spawns. not worth wasting your own time and breeding the pair.
-I've been breeding for quiet some time and experiment enough times to know this. Give it some time...maybe they'll hatch later just dont checkup on your spawn too much.

-again even if your adults or fry dont die at low temperatures....they wont grow up to be too healthy and bacteria can thrive and kill your fish eventually.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

68 to 80 is temp range for all tropical fish only had tropical fish for 40 year's on and off . The hotter you keep your fish the faster they grown and the more thing's they can get and the time they will live is cut down by this to. ph was 7.6 was feed was live food for 2 weeks befor breeding male was in tank for 5 day's befor females added . she was place in a jar in tank with him for 3 day's . Water maybe to hard for them .


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

afishpond said:


> The hotter you keep your fish the faster they grown and the more thing's they can get and the time they will live is cut down by this to .


Boy, I tried to explain this to some users here on another thread. +1 to this portion of your post! But, I tried to explain to them that 76F was enough, not 72.

Please take our advice.. There's a member here that has been breeding fish for over 50 years and she keeps her water around 74-76. Warmer water will help with the egg hatch rate so please, take it.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

hey lebornthebetta what all that about you haven't said anything other thatn this but look at *Floating Thermometer and you will see that 68 is in the green and that's all i was saying .*


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## BettaFx (Oct 15, 2012)

eh. just try again drop an almond leaf in there possibly hard water. but i've bred several pairs in diff parameters
low temp-bigger fry 
high temp-smaller fry hatch fast BUT eat more and metabolism is higher
low ph of 6 
high ph of 7.8
hard water
soft water

i've also bred pairs in water with more minerals like clay component..

etc etc alll were okay for me. just try a different pair..good luck =]


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

76 is the ideal temp for most fish and but say 72 was to cold I don't that was it and to tell that fish need to be in 78 to 80 temp to live great wronge I breed guppy's ,endler',bettas, pelco,coby cat's and koi and lot's more and raise plant's of all kinds . most breeder's raise at high temp. for fast grow and to sale faster . All my big tanks are at 76 but i keep my bettas at room temp and they do fine for me . thx for every ones help with this not meaning to pick on anyone here just wanting to see what the gang had to say .


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

betta fx thx your right .on all the good spawn's i've in the pass the male was cool while breeding not fighting female had some female help with nest and egg's but both these male beat up the female bad don't if that was it or not.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

this is a great place thx agian for all the help


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## BettaFx (Oct 15, 2012)

afishpond said:


> betta fx thx your right .on all the good spawn's i've in the pass the male was cool while breeding not fighting female had some female help with nest and egg's but both these male beat up the female bad don't if that was it or not.


not a problem im glad i can support. just keep at it i hope to hear more about your spawns =]


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## LadyVictorian (Nov 23, 2011)

afishpond said:


> hey lebornthebetta what all that about you haven't said anything other thatn this but look at *Floating Thermometer and you will see that 68 is in the green and that's all i was saying .*


68 is green zone because that is the preferred temp for goldfish and koi which if you knew need to be in colder water not the 76 you keep them in because they are NOT tropical fish. As for how long have I been keeping betta? Since I was five, how long have they lived? My oldest was 7 and average is 5 years. Use to breed guppies and my dad breeds clownfish and grows and sells coral. (saltwater damn right).


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

72 is too cold. it's like saying to the eggs. "the conditions out here are bad!" "don't hatch!" 
lol

it's like how differen bulbs will spout only under a certain condition

I think the definition of tropical is like the definition of brackish. different fish comes from different parts of the world. and I dont think you will find 72F rice paddies during betta fish breeding season  
why dont you just raise the temperature and give it a try?


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## polukoff (Nov 23, 2011)

On cold nights my fishroom can get as low as 72 degrees since it's in a very large two car garage. You will always get deformities, especially with bettas. I don't have many but who knows maybe the few that are deformed in my spawns are from the temp, or maybe it's just genetics. I just had a massive spawn probably 150+ and it got real chilly probably 72 degrees if not lower. Everything is lookin good.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IME 72 is too low. I suggest 76 to be the lowest. Below that I always have problems. High limit is about 87.8. Above that they will survive but become odd. Both high and low limits are ok as long as they don't fluctuate. 82 is ideal. Remember that bettas will adapt if the temp is not too far off.

@afishpond; if you feel 72 works for you, fine. But since they're not hatching or perhaps are taking too long to hatch, try raising the temp and see if you get better results. Further, since you've successfully bred in very low temp, compare sex outcome - do you have more male or female in low temp, what percentage do you get in higher temp.

Looking forward to hearing more of your spawn.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

this was take from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Betta splendens)Betta Species also prefer a warmer water climate than other tropical fish - around 25-30 Degrees Celsius.(77-86 Degrees Fahrenheit). _B. splendens_ can reach sexual maturity at an age as early as 4-5 months,so i think that i found what happen to them both male that didn't spawn are onlt 3 1/2 mo. old .So nexy time rasie temp.up and use older males frist was about 5 mo. and did great.thx all for help.guess i have cold water bettas .


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Some mature faster than others - so some can be bred at 3 months of age. But I wouldn't suggest it. I still hold the opinion that 5 months is best. . . unless you have certain plans, like crossing fry to parents.

For future reference, try understanding their behavior. How they swim when they mean to fight and how they swim when they want to breed. That way you can determine when you can breed them - even at young age.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

indjo thx yes I understand that more now ,this was more of a fight for the male bad thing was both females tried help with nest staying com and still but the 2 males would have it . but i did watch the frist male a lot and it was diffent with him frist day some fighting next day the breeding was on.


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Low temps will slow the hatch rate. Now as for the low end of bettas temps. I have kept bettas outside and they did fine when night time temps dropped to the low 40's. High end bettas can survive temps over 98. 

Not sure if any of you have lived in the tropics, but I lived most of my life in tropical conditions near the equator. Temps can get in the 100's and go as low as the 60s. 

http://www.thailand.climatemps.com/

Here you can see that the temps go as high as 95* and as low as 68*. OMG all the bettas are extinct in Thailand according to the lot of you.

Other factors you have not considered; Typhoons and other weather conditions can bring those temps even lower. In my life time I have been through many category 5 super typhoons. The temperature drops significantly. Add to the fact that thousands of gallons of water are falling from the sky and mixing into the bettas habitat, you will find a big drop in temperatures. 

Don't mistake ideal conditions of aquariums with the reality of nature. Regurgitating what you read in a book or online doesn't replace experience. 

In this particular situation you probably had an infertile male. If the water was too cold the bettas would not have bothered to spawn. Sudden drops in temperature usually triggers the spawning response. In nature this occurs when it rains. In the forest, rain fall brings new sources of food by knocking insects out of trees and washing food down stream from other sources of water. Other indicators such as changes in PH and water hardness also trigger spawning. Proof of this can be seen by bettas themselves. Drops in barometric pressure triggers bubble nest building. This instinctual behavior by bettas occur because they know that drops in barometric pressure is a precursor to rain. Rain brings more food which means higher survival rates for fry.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@goldfishyman: That is very true, in nature temp drops or rises dramatically. But they have places where temp are fairly stable - say the deeper end of the water or something. In nature only the fittest survive. But our bettas are in captivity and aren't used to dramatic changes. And we advise the best way we know how to keep as many alive and healthy as possible.

I live in the tropics. in a coastal city. Temp do get very high at times during the dry season and quite cool during the wet season. My bettas are out side under a shade, so my tubs and tanks do fluctuate. The water is generally around 28C, but it can reach 31C or low 25C. They survive. But under 25C for long periods, they have problems, hardly move, won't eat, etc. And this causes other problems like easily infected by bacteria or other types of parasites. High temps for long periods (hardly ever) makes them swim awkwardly and as if they can't breath.

There is no right nor wrong way of keeping/breeding them. Every one has his/her own way. Mine can't thrive under 25C for long periods (over 2 weeks) but people who live in cooler areas where temp (out side) get as low as 15C at night can still keep and breed them. That's why I say bettas will adapt to their environment.


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

indjo said:


> @goldfishyman: That is very true, in nature temp drops or rises dramatically. But they have places where temp are fairly stable - say the deeper end of the water or something. In nature only the fittest survive. But our bettas are in captivity and aren't used to dramatic changes. And we advise the best way we know how to keep as many alive and healthy as possible.
> 
> I live in the tropics. in a coastal city. Temp do get very high at times during the dry season and quite cool during the wet season. My bettas are out side under a shade, so my tubs and tanks do fluctuate. The water is generally around 28C, but it can reach 31C or low 25C. They survive. But under 25C for long periods, they have problems, hardly move, won't eat, etc. And this causes other problems like easily infected by bacteria or other types of parasites. High temps for long periods (hardly ever) makes them swim awkwardly and as if they can't breath.
> 
> There is no right nor wrong way of keeping/breeding them. Every one has his/her own way. Mine can't thrive under 25C for long periods (over 2 weeks) but people who live in cooler areas where temp (out side) get as low as 15C at night can still keep and breed them. That's why I say bettas will adapt to their environment.


I had 2 bettas outdoors in a 10 gallon. They did alright even when the temps would drop to 42*F at night. In the day time as the water heated up they would come out and do their normal activities. I'll admit they were abit sluggish and hid a lot in the leaves I had in the tank to conserve energy and heat when the temps began remaining constantly in the low 50's during the day. 

Your right though long term low temps will have an effect on them because of slowed metabolism which means loss of apatite, less activity etc. People getting mad at the OP for insisting that 72* is way too low for his fish was just uncalled for. It gets 72* and colder during the raining season in tropical locations. Monsoons are common in these locals. Rain can occur for months at a time without stopping. In captivity, clean water is the main issue for diseases. 

As for temps, higher temps means lower dissolved oxygen. Not a problem for bettas, they can come to the surface and breath. At lower temps there is more dissolved Oxygen, but as temps drop even lower, ammonia and nitrites become more toxic. The reason bettas thrive in environments that are stagnant is that they are usually in waters with really low PH. The lower PH neutralizes ammonia by making it inert ammonium. That's why people in Thailand use indian almond leaves. Lower PH has the benefit of killing off most bacteria. I put a dead fish in a tank with PH 6.6. After 5 weeks, I removed the dead fish from the tank. Under normal conditions, there would be no dead fish to remove. At a PH of 6.6 the fish was still fully intact. There was no foul odor that you would normally get from rotting flesh. I believe an even lower PH is necessary to keep bettas disease free. This would negate the low temps causing disease. 

You can test this theory by putting a wounded betta in low PH water. The wounds or even torn fins will heal faster because the injury is not subject to bacterial infections that would pull resources away from rebuilding damaged tissue. Use of Indian almond reduces PH and releases tanins that have anti-fungal properties. 

For the record, 72* is not even close to the low range for causing diseases in bettas.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

> As for temps, higher temps means lower dissolved oxygen. Not a problem for bettas, they can come to the surface and breath. At lower temps there is more dissolved Oxygen, but as temps drop even lower, ammonia and nitrites become more toxic. The reason bettas thrive in environments that are stagnant is that they are usually in waters with really low PH. The lower PH neutralizes ammonia by making it inert ammonium. That's why people in Thailand use indian almond leaves. Lower PH has the benefit of killing off most bacteria. I put a dead fish in a tank with PH 6.6. After 5 weeks, I removed the dead fish from the tank. Under normal conditions, there would be no dead fish to remove. At a PH of 6.6 the fish was still fully intact. There was no foul odor that you would normally get from rotting flesh. I believe an even lower PH is necessary to keep bettas disease free. This would negate the low temps causing disease.


Thank you for explaining that. I may know about breeding but I definitely don't understand water. I do things mainly by experience. And my saying 72F is too low is also from my experience. But like I said, they do adapt to their environment. 

I know about IAL but I never had pH going under 7 though the water is very dark brown. So I never thought they made that much difference (on pH). Nowadays I use IAL for medical purposes only. I find that bettas accustomed to IAL will not react to them when they're sick. I will definitely try the theory and hopefully solve some wet season problems.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

all i can say is wow ,i keep my bettas in a 1 gal.jar's on heat they all have plant's flaoter and naja grass or something like it and snails and look very happy i do over feed at times they stay in 72 to 77 temp some times down to 68 . i think for the males were just to young to do the job and females may have been to going to hold them till they are 5 mo. old see what happens then.May make some oak leaf tea as richard uses to breed with or what i call black water i make from almond leaf's and oak leaf's and green water this works for me when.You just the male in it for about 5 day's befor starting the breeding.any way's i know temp wasn't it .thx guy's for all the info.oh look's like frist spawn of red,white and blue male to red and white dragon has about 30 still and they look great 2 weeks old now.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

#1 spawn is doing great but only thing I see may be going with the low temp. spawn is they are growing slow to me 3 weeks old about 1/4 to half maybe and don't as must as they would in warmer water.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That's logical and expected since lower temps reduces metabolism. Raise temp a bit and they should eat more - but you'd also need more water changes because they would excrete more wastes. 

Keep us posted, as we can all learn from your experience on temp vs growth.


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## FishyWorldy (Dec 30, 2012)

Help me too!!!! Saw your post today about your reply to to AFISHPOND last 10/27/2012---I don't know what happened this morning. It's the third day when the betta eggs were kept by the male after spawning and I was surprise when there are no longer eggs and he destroyed the nest!!!! I think he really ate it because yesterday, he had a full stomach. Could it be that the eggs were not fertilize much? I have notice that when I was breeding them with the female, he had problem at first squeezing her belly since he was only a little bit larger than the female. 

Also I did not introduce them long and simply put them in the breeding tank as the male's not making any bubbles and the female's not showing the vertical bars in her body though her belly's big already. ( I was surprise that they spawned after 2-3 days that I put them together and the male just build many bubbles already) Could this also be the problem. ?

---My last successful spawning was four years ago and this is the first time that I'm back since I was away for college in a very long time....


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I would make a new thread, otherwise people will read all 4 pages just to get to yours and it would be simpler on others to just go to your question 

The eggs may of not been fertile or something wasn't right for them/him such as not warm enough water or he wasn't conditioned enough, etc. They don't squeeze so much as line up just right to fertilize the eggs. 

The lack of introduction wouldn't be the problem - but would be careful, as big bellies don't usually mean eggs (as indjo says), but a full belly. Can be risky setting her free when neither may be ready. But I can't imagine that being a factor in why the eggs were destroyed.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

update on spawn still grown them out in the cold water and they are growning at a slow rate 8 weeks old maybe 9 only 1/2 to 3/4 but the color in them is brighter than would be and I haven't lost the frist one yet jarred 4 of them but they are still in cold water look great and It seams they don't over eat like fry's in warmer water .


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

They are growing slow due to the cold water.. they may be alive, but you are creating fish with low immune systems who can/will become sickly as they age. 

The cold water is causing them to have slower metabolism along with lowered immune system... unsure why you are breeding them in cold water... I'm sorry, but honestly I just don't understand.


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## afishpond (Mar 27, 2010)

lowered immune system???? how did you come to that ? so your saying they will not live long and that it will be easy for them to get sick.they are at room temp. ,I can't wait to see if this is right or not I think not but time will tell .


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

"The susceptibility of ﬁsh to disease is partly dependent
on their environment, in particular on water temperature.
It is generally accepted that lower temperatures adversely
affect speciﬁc immune responses mediated by T helper
cells. The probable mechanisms involved in such
suppression in teleost ﬁsh are reviewed. Furthermore, the
effects of temperature on nonspeciﬁc defences, such as
phagocytosis and cytotoxicity, are described and total
immune competence in teleosts at low environmental
temperatures is discussed"

Here is ONE article.. it's one of many. There are others here who can tell you more in detail, such as indjo or Oldfishlady. 

Keep in mind room temp isn't what the temp of the water is.. your room may be set at 80, but the temp in the water is in the mid 70s, etc.

And that is exactly what I am saying.. genes and the environment they are being raised in plays a big role in how healthy a betta is during it's life span.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@afishpond : IME low temps do cause low immune system. I have to be more careful during the rain season compared to hot season. But other factors "help" kill them - low temps makes wastes more toxic (sorry can't explain scientifically).

@fishyworldly: I agree with Myates - The most probable reason for male eating eggs after the 3rd day is that they weren't fertilized or he might have felt too disturbed. Usually egg eaters (psychotic) will eat the eggs on the first day and finish them off the following day.

Introduction method has nothing to do with fertility. What is important is the embrace position. I NEVER wait for bubble nest nor do I wait for breeding bars. A lot of my males never make bubble nests. I just set up my breeding tank and plop both in at the same time (I know my bettas are mostly ready to spawn). I do watch them the first 10 minutes to make sure they are in breeding mode. Then cover the tank until the following day.


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