# I took the plunge...



## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

So I had been thinking about getting some kind of fish that wasn't a betta for a while now...and due to unfortunate circumstances, I have a large space open. So I wasn't really looking for a new fish and was just browsing aimlessly to ooh and aah, but then I stumbled on this on ebay;










I'm not the type to just jump into a new fish usually, but I just totally fell in love with this one. This will be my first Mikrogeophagus ramirezi! I did some reading before buying, of course, and I think I have a suitable home for one of these. I am so excited to welcome a new member into my fish family. And such a gorgeous one too. I have heard really great things about cichlids, so I look forward to meeting my fish. This is also the first time I've ever ordered an animal online...so that will be interesting.

I have a few questions though, would I refer to this fish as a cichlid...or a ram? I'm not quite sure what I should be calling it. They're listed as a dwarf butterfly cichlid AND a German Blue Ram so I'm a bit confused about the terminology. Secondly, are omega one flakes a good food for them? I plan on buying some frozen bloodworms soon. Do they enjoy those like bettas do? And lastly, does anyone just have general advice for a first time owner? I want to take great care of my new addition, so while reading is all well and good, I like to hear from other owners' experiences too.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey Rekka, congratulations! Cichlids are wonderful.

What you are getting is a _Microgeophagus ramirezi_. Your fish is a man selected morph. It looks like a gold ram that was bred to have a fancy tail, I'm not sure what the actual trade name is. A different cichlid called the Butterfly Cichlid is from Western Africa and it's scientific name is _Anomalochromis thomasi_. Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus), a cousin of your fish, are also known as butterfly cichlids. I keep both of those.

They do best at higher temperatures, 82-84° and in really soft water with a PH of about 6. They can be pretty touchy and if water parameters cannot be maintained it will result in a shortened lifespan. Frequent water changes are a must. They will appreciate a heavily planted tank and some dither fish. Cardinal or Rummynose tetras make excellent tankmates as the share the same water parameters. It's always best to let them adapt to your water but you could also look into using RO water to help with long term survival.

You can call them rams or cichlids. Calling it a cichlid is very general. Angelfish, Oscars & Kribensis are all cichlids but look very different. Calling it a ram will narrow it down.

Mikrogeophagus means "small earth eater" in Greek. They prefer to pick their food from the substrate. A small pellet would work much better then flake food. A sand substrate is also a good choice for them as they like to sift for food in it. They _ love_ frozen bloodworms and will relish them. They are omnivores and will also appreciate some vegetable matter in their diet. 

Good luck!


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> Hey Rekka, congratulations! Cichlids are wonderful.
> 
> What you are getting is a _Microgeophagus ramirezi_. Your fish is a man selected morph. It looks like a gold ram that was bred to have a fancy tail, I'm not sure what the actual trade name is. A different cichlid called the Butterfly Cichlid is from Western Africa and it's scientific name is _Anomalochromis thomasi_. Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus), a cousin of your fish, are also known as butterfly cichlids. I keep both of those.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the breakdown!  That does clear it up quite a bit for me. 

Will their lifespan also be shortened if they were bred and raised in different water parameters? I was worried about my water since I have hard water and a 7.4 ph, but the breeder I bought from told me that theirs are raised in similar conditions.(With a ph that's actually higher than mine) I wouldn't want to mess them up with a ph swing. 

As for getting plant matter into their diet, what's a good way to do that? Feed cucumber slices and lettuce like you would a snail? Or is there a pellet food I can give? Will they eat actual plants? I have duckweed and I'm wondering if they'll eat it. Glad to hear they like bloodworms though! 

As for tankmates, I've seen mixed things about keeping them with dwarf gourami. Have you ever had experience with that? I was only thinking of doing that if my fish seemed a bit "lonely". Otherwise I was possibly thinking rasboras. I hear mixed things about whether they do well alone or not. I would've bought a pair, but the seller says they can't guarantee the sexes, so I didn't want any accidental breeding on my hands.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I think you should do OK with your tap water. After all, you are buying them from a breeder and not from a commercial fish farm in Indonesia. It took years of selective breeding in captivity to come up with the morph, it's not like they are coming straight from the amazon.

Their cousins (my Bolivians) like zucchini even know it's meant for my pleco. They take turns nibbling on it. I drop a small piece of an algae wafer in the tank for them too sometimes. Most commercial cichlid pellets have some veggies in them as well.

I have had no experience keeping rams with gouramis, but I think you should be OK. The rams won't come anywhere near the top of the aquarium and won't bother the gourami, totally different territories. Rams stay really close to the bottom, anymore than 5" off the deck and they are being adventurous. But, if the rams pair up and start to breed then it's a whole new ballgame. Every fish in the tank is seen as a threat.

The seller should be able to sex them, they're easy. One will be OK on his own. Even if you buy a male and female it's no guarantee that they will pair up. If you are looking to get a pair you should buy 5 and let the pair form naturally and then remove the others. It's like that with just about all cichlids.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Good to know. I just bought some zucchini, so I'll try a little slice of that. I also decided to go with the gourami. Just got an adorable pair, I'm going to love having multiple kind of fish in one tank together.


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## FinnDublynn (Feb 27, 2015)

That. Is. A. Gorgeous. Fish.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

You might run into a little trouble with a pair of gouramis. It's best to keep single or a 1 male to a 2-3 female ratio. They won't bother the ram but have a plan "B" for them just in case they start to get rough with each other. Set up the aquarium like you would for a betta with lots of top cover. Craftmesh betta tubes work for gouramis too.

Do you have a quarantine tank set-up? The reason I ask is because dwarf gouramis are prone to illness and I'd hate to see something happen to your beautiful ram.

You can pop the zucchini in the microwave to soften it up for them. I think i do it for like 15 seconds. If you want it to sink try parboiling it. Algae clips work too.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> You might run into a little trouble with a pair of gouramis. It's best to keep single or a 1 male to a 2-3 female ratio. They won't bother the ram but have a plan "B" for them just in case they start to get rough with each other. Set up the aquarium like you would for a betta with lots of top cover. Craftmesh betta tubes work for gouramis too.
> 
> Do you have a quarantine tank set-up? The reason I ask is because dwarf gouramis are prone to illness and I'd hate to see something happen to your beautiful ram.
> 
> You can pop the zucchini in the microwave to soften it up for them. I think i do it for like 15 seconds. If you want it to sink try parboiling it. Algae clips work too.


I heard mixed things about the gourami and temperment, so I'm keeping a close eye on them, I watched all the dwarf gourami tanks in the store for a few minutes, didn't see anyone fighting(and since I've been eying these for a while, I've just happened to never see fighting). So far no obvious aggression from my pair yet either(I would've went with a female too, but the chain stores don't seem to sell them), but I can easily set up my dividers again if they need to be separated.  And yes, they are in quarantine. I had heard about the illness as well, so I'm keeping a sharp eye out. So far they're active and don't have any signs, but only the next couple weeks will really tell.

I never thought about microwaving zucchini! That will be interesting.

So now that they settled in a bit, one of the male DG is lightly pecking the other to keep him down, so I'll be separating them. I think I may just take the aggressive one back to the store tomorrow. The one being bullied is more colorful anyway.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

FinnDublynn said:


> That. Is. A. Gorgeous. Fish.


It really is! The temptation from this one was just too strong!


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I'm glad to hear you have a quarantine tank, I'd hate for you to have a bad experience with your first cichlid. I think you are better off taking the aggressive DG back just to be safe. 

Dwarf cichlids are awesome and have every bit of personality that the monster cichlids do. Once your ram settles in and gets to know you get used to this face...


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> I'm glad to hear you have a quarantine tank, I'd hate for you to have a bad experience with your first cichlid. I think you are better off taking the aggressive DG back just to be safe.
> 
> Dwarf cichlids are awesome and have every bit of personality that the monster cichlids do. Once your ram settles in and gets to know you get used to this face...
> 
> View attachment 589162


Aw! How cute! I'm hoping my ram will really like me and that it'll also have a great personality. They should be shipped out tomorrow, so I should hopefully have it safe and sound on Wednesday. I'll probably need a little help with identifying whether it's male or female though. 

I'm also really liking my DG though. The non-aggressive one, that is. He's super cute. He already likes to try to touch my finger with his feeler through the glass. The other is too preoccupied with trying to nip duckweed that he can't get to.


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

Lol you guys are making me want one! They're too cute!


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Eh...So I'm thinking I'm gonna take back both DG. I'm getting too scared off by the high rate of DGIV and the fact that it can infect rams and that it can take over 6 months to show up. I was a little comforted by the fact that these two come from Nevada and not an Asian fish farm, but I just want everything to go _swimmingly. _(Cue rimshot)
I may exchange for a honey gourami because they're apparently immune? Gotta read more into this. I'm trying to get more familiar with their scientific names.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I'm kinda glad to hear that. Honey gouramis are nice and stay small. I too have heard that they are immune to DGIV but I'm not 100% sure of that. You are going to have to do some research.

I forgot to ask this before, what size tank will you be keeping the ram in? Just in case the honeys don't work out for you, consider a school of cardinal tetras. They would be a perfect fit for the ram.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> I'm kinda glad to hear that. Honey gouramis are nice and stay small. I too have heard that they are immune to DGIV but I'm not 100% sure of that. You are going to have to do some research.
> 
> I forgot to ask this before, what size tank will you be keeping the ram in? Just in case the honeys don't work out for you, consider a school of cardinal tetras. They would be a perfect fit for the ram.


For the most part, I'm seeing that they're immune. So that's a relief, I just have to make sure the one I'm buying is indeed a Colisa chuna and not a Colisa lalia. 

The ram is going in my 30 gallon. Cardinal tetras look quite pretty, but don't tetras have a high death rate? Or is that just neon tetras? I sort of admit that I'm not the biggest fan of hive-mind schooling fish. They're pretty...but I like some personality to my fish.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I agree that tetras aren't really big in the personality department, but they do offer color, movement and a sense of security to certain fish when used as dithers. Cardinals do have a high mortality rate, usually in the first 48 hours. It depends on where they are imported from.

30 gallons is great! I wish you were getting more rams. You could easily do 2 pairs in a 36" tank without having to worry too much about aggression. You'll also have plenty of room for the honey gouramis.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> I agree that tetras aren't really big in the personality department, but they do offer color, movement and a sense of security to certain fish when used as dithers. Cardinals do have a high mortality rate, usually in the first 48 hours. It depends on where they are imported from.
> 
> 30 gallons is great! I wish you were getting more rams. You could easily do 2 pairs in a 36" tank without having to worry too much about aggression. You'll also have plenty of room for the honey gouramis.


So many things out of my reach with a 30 gallon! I was just 10 gallons off from making this into a discus tank, honestly. I did get this tank for free from a family friend though, so beggars can't be choosers in this case.

Today will be quite exciting though. My ram is out for delivery! Bad news is that today will be the hottest day of the week. Luckily, I'm on good terms with my mailman and he parks his truck close to my house. I don't think he'll mind bringing me over there to get the box from the truck so my ram doesn't overheat.

I also just had a sudden realization. I was going to exchange my gourami for a honey and for another 2 cobra endlers to go in my 10 gallon. I could just move my other endlers into the larger tank and maybe get 2 more instead of tetras. That could be nice as long as the ram and honey gourami don't mind it. I'll have to look into that as well.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Success! My little one got here alive and well. :-D Wish I could post pictures and see it more in detail, but I read it's best to let them slowly adjust to light after being in a box so long, so I'm going to wait it out a couple hours while they acclimate to my tanks temperature. Then I'll move onto round two and acclimate to my water.

The breeder also told me their stripes will fade once they feel settled in. I'm wondering, is that true? I like them even with the stripes, but it would be nice if they did lighten...


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Cool! I'm glad he arrived safe & sound. Can't wait to see a picture. Give him a few days pictures can be stressful.



Reccka said:


> The breeder also told me their stripes will fade once they feel settled in. I'm wondering, is that true? I like them even with the stripes, but it would be nice if they did lighten...


Mikrogeophagus are like mood rings, they will change colors literally a 100 times a day. Once he gets settled in you will see color changes depending on whats going on in his environment.

Using my altispinosus as examples,
This is Redford the ram as he appears most of the time...








Here is Redford, a little stressed and hiding after a water change. 








This is Redford in full on defending his territory battle mode!








And here Sam is acting weird after I changed the water and added some roobios tea. He's showing submission bars and has his tail raised in a strange position. I think Sam is confused and trying to pair up. Redford is having none of it. 








I think you might miss out a little in the color department by only keeping a single specimen. With some cichlids, having some inter-species competition in the tank can really bring out the best in them color wise.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

That is crazy cool. I didn't know they were the type to change colors so often! Pictures will definitely be a fun time when they're less stressed. I'm sort of eager to know if I have a male or female though. I still don't know. I still have some new things to set up in my tank soon too. Got a nice piece of driftwood since I heard they like that. I've always a tiny piece, but I thought a larger size would look great in here too. 

I finally got my DG back to the store today too, they sadly didn't have any honey gourami or more cobra endlers, but had just gotten in some thick lipped sunset gourami, so I went with one of those. They get a little bigger than the dwarf varieties, but it seems that they're also immune to DGIV, which is great. Seems that they're rather compatible with rams too, but as usual, if they don't play nice I'll just separate them.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Seems my new buddy is not at all camera shy. I was able to snap a quick picture while they were staying still. I'm leaning towards male in my guessing, but anyone want to double-check my guesstimate? 










And MikeG14, I did see that red come out on the top of its fins when I let it out! Was a crazy thing to see! Love it.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

It's a male. If you look at the urogenital opening you will see that it looks pointy. If it were a female you might see an exposed ovipositor. It would be larger and sort of rounded off. The distance between the ventrals and the anal fin is also a giveaway that is a male.

You could also add some IAL or rooibos tea if you want, he would appreciate it just like a betta.


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## asquirrel (Jan 5, 2015)

Wow! What a gorgeous fish!


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> It's a male. If you look at the urogenital opening you will see that it looks pointy. If it were a female you might see an exposed ovipositor. It would be larger and sort of rounded off. The distance between the ventrals and the anal fin is also a giveaway that is a male.
> 
> You could also add some IAL or rooibos tea if you want, he would appreciate it just like a betta.


Great! Thanks for the help with that, I wasn't entirely confident in my judgement yet. 

I think I will add the tea then. He seems to be settling in well, but extras never hurt. I already had names picked out as well and my male choice name was Galaxy. So Galaxy it is. 



asquirrel said:


> Wow! What a gorgeous fish!


He totally is! I can't stop looking at him.


It also seems that Galaxy may be a bit of an oddball...not sure if he'll work out with the gourami. His favorite part of the tank seems to be the top. He stayed at the bottom of my tank yesterday for about an hour and has been hanging out in the mid section and up ever since. Can't figure out why. The bottom of tank is where I put all the fun stuff for him! (Plants, caves, driftwood.) He is also in view of the gourami, and he seems pretty interested...the gourami tried to flip out at him yesterday when I brought him home, but now seems to ignore him at least.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

So I did read in one post that if my ram is hanging at the top of the tank, my water may be lacking in oxygen. So I set up my air pump and now he seems to be staying at the bottom.

My air pump is ancient though and it rumbles like an earthquake. Any recommendations for a quieter one? I don't mind in the summer because the noise of my fan overpowers it, but once it cools down, all I'm going to hear is endless whirring.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I use Tetra Whisper air pumps, I find them really inexpensive and quiet. 

What is the temperature in his tank?


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> I use Tetra Whisper air pumps, I find them really inexpensive and quiet.
> 
> What is the temperature in his tank?


I'll check out that pump then. I have the whisper filter and it is relatively quiet. The tank is about 83 right now(the temperature it usually holds at), but was more like 85 earlier due to the heat.

And there he goes again. Top of the tank. Any other reason why he'd be hanging out up there?


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

What a pretty guy! 

Tetra Whispers are really pretty darn quiet. I even have one in my bedroom with no problems, although that one is hanging from my dresser to lessen the vibration.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Elleth said:


> What a pretty guy!
> 
> Tetra Whispers are really pretty darn quiet. I even have one in my bedroom with no problems, although that one is hanging from my dresser to lessen the vibration.


That's nice to hear! I may try the hanging too if it's too much sound. That's mainly why I have a problem with my current pump. My tank is also in my room and it bothers me when I try to sleep!


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## Elleth (Feb 23, 2015)

I know exactly what you mean. I had one running in my bedroom without hanging, and I just couldn't get used to it. But someone recommended hanging it up to me, and it's perfect! There's a little bit of noise, but not bad at all.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

Elleth said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I had one running in my bedroom without hanging, and I just couldn't get used to it. But someone recommended hanging it up to me, and it's perfect! There's a little bit of noise, but not bad at all.


I'll have to try it then. I think I will get the Tetra pump. Going to order tomorrow so I can mooch off the boyfriend's Amazon Prime.


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## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

Reccka said:


> Seems my new buddy is not at all camera shy. I was able to snap a quick picture while they were staying still. I'm leaning towards male in my guessing, but anyone want to double-check my guesstimate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So beautiful  
This thread and visiting the local cichlid-focused store make me reeeeally want some of these guys... :lol: So adorable


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

InStitches said:


> So beautiful
> This thread and visiting the local cichlid-focused store make me reeeeally want some of these guys... :lol: So adorable


If you have the space...I'd say look into it!  I can't wait for him to get more settled in so I can take more pictures. He's already colored up quite a bit. He was rocking the "bright red nose" look today and it was hilarious.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Reccka said:


> I'll check out that pump then. I have the whisper filter and it is relatively quiet. The tank is about 83 right now(the temperature it usually holds at), but was more like 85 earlier due to the heat.
> 
> And there he goes again. Top of the tank. Any other reason why he'd be hanging out up there?


Your temperature is about right for a ram and aerating is a really good idea to keep the water oxygenated. A Whisper10 would probably work fine and is quieter than the bigger models.

Do his colors change when he goes to the top of the tank? Is he showing stress stripes?

It's not normal for a Ram they usually do it when they are stressed, but it is common for _any_ fish that has just been introduced into a new aquarium. I would give him some time, about a week or two so that he can settle in. My African butterfly did the same thing for the first two weeks.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> Your temperature is about right for a ram and aerating is a really good idea to keep the water oxygenated. A Whisper10 would probably work fine and is quieter than the bigger models.
> 
> Do his colors change when he goes to the top of the tank? Is he showing stress stripes?
> 
> It's not normal for a Ram they usually do it when they are stressed, but it is common for _any_ fish that has just been introduced into a new aquarium. I would give him some time, about a week or two so that he can settle in. My African butterfly did the same thing for the first two weeks.


His stripes are definitely lighter than when I got him and I haven't seen any major change to his color when he goes to the top of the tank, but he probably is just stressed out. I'll keep an eye on him. He already seems to be moving to the bottom of the tank this morning.

So he has stayed at the bottom more today, but he is glass surfing a lot, which I also read may be a stress thing. I hope he settles in soon, but the good news is that I can barely even tell that he even has stripes right now. They are almost completely invisible at the moment. 

I went ahead and ordered the air pump(would attaching an air stone work better with it for oxygen levels than just letting it make bubbles?), some NLS cichlid formula pellets, and some seachem de-nitrate for my filter. I've still been having a rough time getting my nitrates to stay down, even with daily 25% water changes, I can't seem to get it below 20-25ppm and they rise very quickly and I don't know why. Hoping that will help me keep it at a more manageable level since the reviews are good. Going to have to tough it out with these water changes for another week. 

But at least Galaxy seems to be doing well enough. I fed him some Omega One flakes yesterday and he ate like a champ. He's colored up nicely as well.


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