# I made a video - warning, graphic content!



## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It's graphic, because I know some people are squirmish towards the look and appearance of ill bettas (and other fish)

It shows all the bettas I thought deserved an appearance of "Betta Fish Reality" such as Maine, Reggie, Shiloh, my females and Little Sarah, and most importantly... Spartan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfUybr9SQg

Click to your own discretion. Thanks for watching


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Why are you blaming breeders for an illness when you don't even know where or WHAT the illness is? For all you know it could be something you did. I really wish you would stop touting your opinion and experience as fact.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

It wasn't something I did that killed Maine... we figured that much ouch... And I didn't aim it at ALL breeders. Most breeders I know are pretty awesome at what they do. But HIS pet store breeder, has been getting so many... sick bettas to this store it is ridiculous.

And where, does it say "I am right suck it up you all are stupid and don't know anything" :| It doesn't. I wish you'd lay off! don't like the video, don't watch it plain and simple. You're being offensive towards me because you think I am bashing ALL breeders.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Why post a video that's graphic, when nobody wants to watch such a thing anyways? @[email protected]


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

All I did was make a warning there are some graphic pictures (injured sick bettas)... If it was a video of bettas fighting (I'd never!) then yeah...wouldn't post it x.x

I put "graphic" in there, because I wouldn't want someone who cannot stand those certain pictures.. Better to warn ahead of time 

And 1F2F, wasn't it YOU who told me, that breeding should be to help the genetics? What about the breeders...like Maine's breeder... who don't? They don't create new color combos. Nothing fancy. Nothing healthy. My co-worker had a betta, same time I had Maine. And both our fish were in pretty darn good conditions... Then Maine overnight got hit with ich and this "burnt" look... We figured, "maybe someone sprayed something near his tank?" so water change... AQ salt... IAL... nothing worked. temperature increase didn't help. None of my other fish were sick - couldn't be the food. the conditioner... of which I got new conditioner just in case.
There was a thread for it. Thought you posted on it? Maybe not. Thought you did.
My coworker's betta who looked pretty much the same as Maine (like it matters anyways) died the same way... and she couldn't do anything and she felt guilty because she thought she did something wrong.. even though the betta was fed good food, was in 78 degrees, was in 5 cycled gallons..

Please stop saying that I am "touting my experience and opinion as if it were fact". Because I'm not. If I had ALLLLL the experience in the world (impossible) I wouldn't be on this site. I'm here to learn, and here to help. If you have not noticed, I do add "not sure, someone correct me" or "I think.. not sure" or "in my experience" or "in my opinion" or plain and simple "I dont know."


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## HOTPOKKIT (Dec 19, 2011)

Not a great first post, but...

Between the HOT mess of a site and this.. less than accurate.. video, it looks like you're doing more harm than good.

I'd stop calling yourself a 'rescue' and keep with pets..


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks for the offense.

I'm sorry I cannot word things right. or that you interpret it wrong. I'm sorry I'm not the best, or that I come across as trying to know more than I do. I like to learn I learn from mistakes, I learn from people. But I don't learn from hate, anger, bashing, or scoffing. All that ever teaches me is that it is not worth the time and effort to argue, defend myself, or make a point. :-( I'm done with this, you know that? I'm so tired of people seeing me as what you said. I'm NOT. I try NOT to be. I say things wrong, and screw everything up.

So there ya have it. if you want to report the thread go ahead I don't care right now.
I'll keep to myself, to make life easier for you, remain in my threads, and pm, and working on the rescue.

So, sorry again. :-(


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## HOTPOKKIT (Dec 19, 2011)

Sena Hansler said:


> Thanks for the offense.


Anytime.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay guys, I don't know what's going on here but I for one watched the video and I found it moving and inspiring. I think you did a great job putting the video together, Sena, and I think what you do with the rescuing is admirable.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Sena Hansler said:


> And 1F2F, wasn't it YOU who told me, that breeding should be to help the genetics? What about the breeders...like Maine's breeder... who don't? They don't create new color combos. Nothing fancy. Nothing healthy. My co-worker had a betta, same time I had Maine. And both our fish were in pretty darn good conditions... Then Maine overnight got hit with ich and this "burnt" look... We figured, "maybe someone sprayed something near his tank?" so water change... AQ salt... IAL... nothing worked. temperature increase didn't help. None of my other fish were sick - couldn't be the food. the conditioner... of which I got new conditioner just in case.
> There was a thread for it. Thought you posted on it? Maybe not. Thought you did.
> My coworker's betta who looked pretty much the same as Maine (like it matters anyways) died the same way... and she couldn't do anything and she felt guilty because she thought she did something wrong.. even though the betta was fed good food, was in 78 degrees, was in 5 cycled gallons..
> 
> Please stop saying that I am "touting my experience and opinion as if it were fact". Because I'm not. If I had ALLLLL the experience in the world (impossible) I wouldn't be on this site. I'm here to learn, and here to help. If you have not noticed, I do add "not sure, someone correct me" or "I think.. not sure" or "in my experience" or "in my opinion" or plain and simple "I dont know."


Yes I said breeding should be to better the fish. But no where in that video did you say that it was possible the fish got sick AFTER leaving the breeder. You said, straight up, "look what my breeder did to me, he BRED this". You don't even know what the illness was you don't know if it is possibly something they got at the warehouse, at the pet shop, or possibly at the breeders.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think what Sena means is that many commercial breeders overbreed the fish, resulting in genetically weak fish who become ill very easily and who have genetic defects. That is how I interpret it. Let's remember that commercial breeders view breeding very differently than hobby breeders. Sena's not talking about hobby breeders, but those who mass breed without regard for the consequences.


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## Summer (Mar 29, 2011)

But half the diseases you mentioned weren't abuse. Like, fin rot and clamped fins? They are preventable but if a fish gets them it doesn't scream 'abuse and neglect!'

And I think someone else mentioned it but buying sick bettas from stores isn't really rescuing them. It's just letting the store employees and manager know they can get away with selling sick fish. At least, from what I gather, that's where most of your "rescued" fish come from.


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## HOTPOKKIT (Dec 19, 2011)

It also increases demand on the store. More demand = more bettas sold.

You're doing them a favor and increasing their revenue.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, I think the concept of "rescuing" differs from person to person. One will view it as a rescue, another won't. As far as I'm concerned, if it gets the betta out of its terrible conditions, it's rescuing. Maybe not in the strictest sense of the definition but I doubt the betta in question won't quibble about whether it was "rescued" or "purchased." But hey, we can agree to disagree.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Even if every conscientious betta owner stopped buying bettas from chain pet stores in protest, the loss of revenue from those people wouldn't even make a dent in the profits that the stores make from ignorant people buying bettas. 

Let's face it, pretty much all of us get our bettas from pet stores. Better that one out of every ten bettas goes to a good home than ten out of ten bettas going to a lousy one.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Regardless, most people dont know that (even if it is true, though I dont think that was the thought until you said it, Sakura), and most people will think it.

People need concise, factual information. They need to develop their own opinions. Shoving the fact that "breeders" (et. al) gave their fish that "mystery disease" (tissue necrosis) onto a person is confusing!

If you dont know it dont post it! Argh! I cant stand when people do things like this! I cant!

Between this, the "mystery disease" business and that dang acrylic tank bit, nothing said of yet is backed by anything close to factual evidence. None of it.

You complain and complain about people getting on you about things like this, but have you yet wondered, maybe they have a point? I dont get people riding my rear about things, because I only say what I _know_. And if I dont know it, then dangit, _I dont say it.

Its one thing to speculate with people on a higher level in the hobby about things one is uncertain of. It's how we learn. But to spit in a new hobbyist's face in such a way as to give out bad information when others who would tell you otherwise is both irresponsible and *selfish.*_

Listen for a moment and really look at people's reactions. Look who fawns over you and look who scorns. Those who know little and those who have experience.

Who is in your favor? *Think about it and actually post things you are certain of!!*

Its things like this that put me in a bad spot. I try hard and literally research everything that I can. Always. I dont get ahead of myself. And yet there are many who would like to front me and null all my hard work in an effort to distribute poor and lacking information. Im not bashing you, _Im bashing what you do._


/rant.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm never surprised that bettas purchased from pet stores or places like Walmart seem to die off a lot more often than those bought from a more reputable source. 

My local fish store has rows and rows of dead bettas in cups, and even the 'healthy' ones I've picked up, have never looked as physically good as bettas I have purchased from overseas or local hobby breeders.

Personally I think that mystery disease is a fast-acting form of columnaris. I wouldn't blame the breeder for that since who knows what kind of stress was put on these bettas before being purchased.


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## HOTPOKKIT (Dec 19, 2011)

/mic drop


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I don't think Sena meant for this video to be so controversial. She just wanted to get a message out about the bad conditions that bettas are kept in. That's all. Let's just leave it at that.


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## Summer (Mar 29, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> I don't think Sena meant for this video to be so controversial. She just wanted to get a message out about the bad conditions that bettas are kept in. That's all. Let's just leave it at that.


I think this goes without saying, but there's hundreds of thousands of videos like that on youtube already. What she needs to focus on is her information.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

The fact is that commercial fish breeders are the second best home these fish ever have (that is implying the fish go to GOOD homes.. not fish who go to bad homes).

Sick fish don't breed.. so they have to take care of their fish. And if they are constantly selling sick fish to the store.. they lose business. Chain pet stores CAN switch suppliers.. which is the last thing the commercial breeders want.

They may be bred willy-nilly and they may have horrid genetic backgrounds... but they generally don't come carrying disease. That happens in transit.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> The fact is that commercial fish breeders are the second best home these fish ever have (that is implying the fish go to GOOD homes.. not fish who go to bad homes).
> 
> Sick fish don't breed.. so they have to take care of their fish. And if they are constantly selling sick fish to the store.. they lose business. Chain pet stores CAN switch suppliers.. which is the last thing the commercial breeders want.
> 
> They may be bred willy-nilly and they may have horrid genetic backgrounds... but they generally don't come carrying disease. That happens in transit.



*Slow clap*


I agree.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

The problem is by 'rescuing' bettas from big box stores, you are only compounding on the problem. 

Look how many people were outraged by the sale of baby bettas, and yet look how many people post on here saying they 'rescued' one from the evil Petco. Petco now knows it has a good market going for its product.

I think if you are really passionate about stopping cruelty and ignorance, form a group of like-minded people and start getting out there and spreading the word. Write up info sheets and contact owners of stores and see if they will display them for you. Heck, contact the local paper and see if you can't raise some public awareness there.

I find people are more swayed by someone who can verbally articulate and debate a point of view, than a youtube video. I think it tends to leave more of an impression. 

Also I never see why people post on an open forum if they only want praise. A bit of debate is healthy as long as it does turn to mud-slinging.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Also I never see why people post on an open forum if they only want praise. A bit of debate is healthy as long as it does turn to mud-slinging.












Also +1 to P3 (and Hotpokkit)


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

just realised I'd posted that it 'does' turn to mud-slinging :lol:

Guess my inner devil slipped out a bit there.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I agree, LBF. Better ways, if a person is willing.

I too, have a slow clap. Of an attractive man.

Here it is.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

LittleBettaFish said:


> The problem is by 'rescuing' bettas from big box stores, you are only compounding on the problem.
> 
> Look how many people were outraged by the sale of baby bettas, and yet look how many people post on here saying they 'rescued' one from the evil Petco. Petco now knows it has a good market going for its product.
> 
> ...


I agree.

When I first got into advocacy it was because I was very unhappy with the care going on at one of my local walmarts. I started by complaining to the store manager, then to corporate, and then by talking people out of supporting that store's fish section, when I started talking about contacting the local paper... that's when things started changing, and quickly. They still don't take the best care of their fish but dead bettas are much fewer and far between now.

Same thing for my LFS.. they were keeping their kings in tiny bowls that they could barely turn around in... once I got ahold of the store owner and gave him an earful things changed FAST.


Saving bettas is nice and it feels good. But one free betta given away to quite a complaining customer is not what makes change.. letters to corporate and public awareness are what makes change.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

P3... 100+ cool points for hawt dawson slow clap


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Personally I think that mystery disease is a fast-acting form of columnaris.


I would tend to agree with you on this but without scientific confirmation, it's still just the "Mystery Disease." We're waiting for a case that we can send in for a necropsy. It's possible it's also an iridovirus that targets anabantids. Either way, an analysis of a tissue sample should help us pinpoint the exact type of bacteria we're dealing with.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Debate is one thing. This is another. Let's just drop it before someone gets reported. End of thread.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Didn't someone send a fish off to be autopsied in one of the threads and it came back as flexibacter? Whatever it is, it looks nasty. One of my bettas started necrosing around the tips of his caudal, and in less than 12 hours, had to be euthanised. I felt awful as there wasn't really anything I could do.

I hate fish diseases. Half the time they're hard to really accurately diagnose and hard to treat. Plus fish are great at pretending to be hale and hearty until it's generally too late to do much of anything.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

It's probably one of a million possible different things. We KNOW columnaris can cause tissue necrosis, a virus is another possibility, it's highly unlikely that this is one specific illness however. Most likely it's a number of different ones that just happen to show the same necrosis.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

@Sakura

*No. *I get and can respect that you're friends with Sena, but frankly you trying to pull down a thread just because the OP cant come back on here and talk it out (and thereby lessening the amount of issues) is no reason to call a stop to it. If Sena wants it closed, close it, Sena.

I'm a little tired of everyone being "its ok, guys! Lets just not discuss."

No, this is an issue and normally too much griping comes into play before it can be addressed. She put it out here, so let's talk it out.

And if youre referring to the clapping thing, take another look. It's an attempt at lightening up a serious thread. Take what you can get.


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Regardless, most people dont know that (even if it is true, though I dont think that was the thought until you said it, Sakura), and most people will think it.
> 
> People need concise, factual information. They need to develop their own opinions. Shoving the fact that "breeders" (et. al) gave their fish that "mystery disease" (tissue necrosis) onto a person is confusing!
> 
> ...


+99999999999

---------------

This kind of thing is why I stopped coming on here in the first place. 

The thing is you give poor info, Sena. Not all of it, some info makes sense- but a lot just doesn't. 

If you don't know a lot about the subject, then don't post. It's really simple. I understand people want to help, so they attempt to help by posting information they got by "he said she said" but its not _factual._ You want to post, then welcome a person to the forum, bump their thread so they can get info, PM someone who has the knowledge. But don't post if you don't know anything!

As example, Pew3 is amazing with plants. We all know she has spent countless hours on researching plants (not just a quick google to find an answer for a poster either, but HOURS) as well as _personal experience_. I believe she has like three fully planted tanks? And she has helped countless other people with their tanks (including me). Do you see her posting in the medical threads? No, because maybe she doesn't know. 

In most cases you do more harm than good by posting when you know nothing about the problem.

Personally, I found this video stupid. No offense, I understand you worked hard on it and all that, but that's what I thought of it. I agree with Hotpokkit or whoever lol, its gonna do more harm than good.

Like the little story about that fish and how it was the breeders fault. How do you KNOW it was the breeders fault? You don't. It could have been something you did, most cases it is. You don't know anything about pet store breeders. Do you specifically know your pet store's breeder is overbreeding their bettas resulting in genetic and immune weaknesses? 
In most cases its the pet store's fault that the bettas are sick, not the breeders. Think about it, the betta is with the breeder for a few months, shipped to the store in a few days tops. Spends weeks in dirty, unchanged water at the store. Whose fault is it when the betta dies? The stores. Not the breeders. 
If it was the breeders fault, in most cases the disease would have become apparent at a young age (the first few months of its life) as a genetic defect, not 8 months + into its life. 

Its not rescuing a betta if you buy it. It's not. Rescuing an animal is removing an animal from a situation unsuitable for living while *not encouraging the situation to continue.* By buying the bettas you are encouraging the situation to continue. Yes, you may make a difference in one bettas life, but if you really want to make a difference don't support those stores at all, or fight for a change in a productive way such as petitions. I know that what is and isn't rescuing a betta is a controversial subject though, so I don't expect much from this. :|

I know you've put a lot of time into your site as well, but a lot of it is again, information you don't know specifically, just "he said she said". 
Your "Bowl vs tank" section says you will explain how to cope with the tank size you have, yet all you do is diss the small sizes. You don't really explain that although small is not ideal, nor recommended for multiple reason, it can be done with very frequent water changes. A round bowl distorting the image of the fish is not a reason to rule out a bowl, btw. In that section you just show a bunch of pictures with random bouts of sarcasm that actually aren't that sarcastic as I've actually seen you use these containers yourself, and have seen you suggest them to others. Also, the background is EXTREMELY distracting, just thought you should know :/

Honestly, I find this rescue thing kind of stupid. You are BUYING fish and then reselling them (for an "adoption fee"). I can go out and buy fish and resell them too. Means I'm starting a rescue I guess :roll:.
If you want to start a rescue, find bettas from people who already own them and are not taking care of them and then find them new homes. Take a small adoption fee to cover costs if you need to, although there won't be many as bettas are extremely cheap to keep. 
Being COMPLETELY honest as well, most of the bettas that end up sick and dying at stores are veiltails. Most of your "customers" will probably be members of this forum. How many people are going to be willing to pay $16+ in shipping for a veiltail that they can get at the petstore for $3.99?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> @Sakura
> 
> *No. *I get and can respect that you're friends with Sena, but frankly you trying to pull down a thread just because the OP cant come back on here and talk it out (and thereby lessening the amount of issues) is no reason to call a stop to it. If Sena wants it closed, close it, Sena.
> 
> ...


Pew, I'm just trying to avoid a fight is all. You're tired of everyone being "It's okay guys! Let's just not discuss." I'm tired of everything turning into a fight.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

So am I.Can't we just discuss things without everyone getting their panties in a wad? Sena means well and her heart is in the right place. Can't we give her credit for that at least?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:lol: Panties in a wad. Good one, DQ.


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

dramaqueen said:


> Can't we give her credit for that at least?















...lol I kid.


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## kathstew (Feb 23, 2011)

youlovegnats said:


> ...lol I kid.



+++9999999999999999999
I'm not kidding 


I'M *sick* of people giving out bad advice.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

No one is fighting. We're trying to voice concerns so that misinformation can be corrected.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Okay, that's fine. I still say her heart's in the right place, even though some of her info isn't correct.


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