# A little help please.



## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

So finally my tank cabinet has arrived and put together and tomorrow i shall be setting up my 30g tank(yay).
I have searched the forum for certain answers and have read the sticky on cycling but still need to confirm a few things and i apologize if anything i ask sounds dumb.

I shall be using some small stones from a cycled tank(in a stocking by the filter)and was wondering how much amonia i need to add(ie teaspoon or more) and how often?

Also is it ok to fill the tank and then add the dechlorine once filled(The tank is far from a tap and was going to use a hose to fill)?

Once all the levels are ok can i then add live plants before the fish?

Many thanks in advance( i just want to do it all right)


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## CallmeAustin (Jul 10, 2012)

Yes about filling it first then de-chlorinating. I don't know about the other questions.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

the amount of ammonia varies.im assuming u mean using pure ammonia and adding it that way.the bet thing to do is add a little..check your water after i say an hour..and keep adding the amount u need to get to the 2-5ppm ammonia depending on how high you want to get it,i dont really think there is a calculator or rite amount of ammonia to be added.it more on what level u want it at and adding little by little until u reach it.

i agree with CallmeAustin

yes once your ammonia and nitrate etc levels are at a constant zero..then you add the fish...now i cant exactly remember which 1 it is.but either the nitrate or nitrite will be there and ammonia and the other will be at 0.i keep forgetting.but will check to verify and post back here..


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Filling up the tank the first time: Adding dechlorinator AFTER filling it up is fine. However, any future water additions require adding dechlorinator BEFORE. Also make sure you put the stocking into dechlorinated water.

If you have a testing kit, it is easiest to add 4.0ppm of ammonia into the unstocked tank with the stocking floating about.

Plants ideally should be quarantined for 14 days in regular tap water, they don't mind chlorine as much as fish do (but feel free to dechlorinate it)

Fish should be added slowly, don't buy your entire stock all at once.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

here is the ret of the info i wasnt sure about taken from the beginners guide on here

"Eventually both ammonia and nitrite will continually test at 0 ppm and you'll start seeing a reading for nitrate." 

so its the nitrate that u will get a reading and nitrite and ammonia will be at 0


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

After adding 4.0ppm of ammonia into the tank, check the water every 3-4 hours or so. Check ammonia, nitRITE, and nitRATE. If ammonia goes to 0 but nitRATEs are still at 0, keep adding ammonia until levels are something like

Ammonia (NH3): 0ppm
NitRITE (NO2): 0ppm
NitRATE (NO3): Above 0ppm

When you get that reading, add another dose of maybe 2.0ppm ammonia to see if it is definitely cycled (it should drop fairly quickly). Then I would personally test it again with another 2.0ppm ammonia after removing the stocking.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have King British water tests including amonia is this ok?
Also im not familiar with the ppm dosage..how much is 4.0 ppm? sorry if this sounds silly.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

As long as you are able to test for Ammonia Nitrite and Nitrate, it's okay.

As for dosing 4.0ppm, it depends on how concentrated your ammonia source is. Usually the jug/bottle should have it somewhere on the side/label


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

bahamut285 said:


> As long as you are able to test for Ammonia Nitrite and Nitrate, it's okay.
> 
> As for dosing 4.0ppm, it depends on how concentrated your ammonia source is. Usually the jug/bottle should have it somewhere on the side/label


Its called kleen off amonia by jeyes and it does not say anything about dosage:-?


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

I did a rough estimate, please be careful with this stuff it's really strong. Keep it away from your nose and eyes and wear gloves.

For your tank, roughly 3-4mL of it should be PLENTY. Add it in before the stocking, wait a few minutes for it to disperse around the tank and test it so you know how much you added for the future.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Many thanks for all your help.

Today is day 2 and the amonia reading is 4.0 and the stocking is hanging by the filter...one question though,is it normal for the water to be a little cloudy?
The heater is set at 27c and there is a plastic condensation hood with gaps for wires and a large one for feeding...is it normal for the condensation to be dripping from the hood above the plastic tray?

Ok that was two questions


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

yes it is normal for the water to be cloudy.its going to be like that for a little while but will clear up soon..

the condensation is normal.u have warm temperatures coming from the light over a body of water.its the same if u take a cup and put it outside and put something plastic over the top or have a water bottle sitting in a refrigerator and take it out..you will also loose some water as well.but dont fill it back up to the line.when its time to do a water change.then you top it off


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

So today i am on day three of my tank cycle and the amonia has gone up to 6.0 even though i have added the same amount,also there is a slight hint 0.5 of nitrite..can someone tell me what i should do please?
Sorry for all the questions.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no need to apologize.its good to ask questions....i would personally do a water change.id say between 30 and 50% considering its a 30 gallon tank..but it seems u are starting to have ur ammonia spikes..nitrite is coming in.hold back on adding more ammonia until it gets lower.since you have a big tank.and i dont know how much decor and BB space you have.you could also create a moving filter.its simple,cheap and very effective.i just created 1 a few days ago using a small 16.9 ounce water bottle..a few straws cut up into about 1 inch pieces,some left over airline for like a bubbler..and a small air pump for like a 1 or 2 gallon tank..i can give more info and directions on how to make it if interested..

but it gives more surface area for the BB to grow on.i have mine sitting in a 10 gallon and will soon make 1 for another 1 of my tanks once i move and set it up.

but for now i would do the water changes until ur ammonia drops below 6...keep posting.ask any questions.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks for your advice, i do have an ario bubble maker in the tank as well as the filter..is that ok?
So should i wait till tomorrow to do a water change or do it now?

Also once the amonia goes below 6 do i start adding daily again..and if so do i reduce the amounts?

Thanks again.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no problem at all...yes thats ok..i just had the bubbler in mine for a while.its good for the fish.especially those that breath air straight from the water unlike bettas..plus the BB grows where most oxygen water is at...i would change it now myself.i have fish in my tank.so i keep my ammonia below .50ppm..but with you doing a fishless cycle its good to keep it between 2-5...

yes once its below 6 really a 5..i would add ammonia again.you want to keep doing it until you start to get readings of 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite consistently and readings of nitrate.then stop adding the ammonia and your tank is cycled.but you could also create another post of contact OFL(OldFishLady) and ask her to be positive..she knows what she is talking about.and anything she says i do.i know there are several other experts on here.but she is 1 i know of conidering i have read her post and he replies on mine..and sorry to any experts who read this and i do not credit you.please fill me in so i can also share with others who you are...

but the info i have given you i based on what i have seen on other sites and especially on here..


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have just done a 30% water change and the filter is pretty powerful so with the bubble maker also the water is getting agitated nicely.

Should i now wait till tomorrow and test for amonia and then estimate how much amonia i should add to get to 3-5? and then test an hour later to see if it worked with a less amount(hope that made sense..i must have added to much amonia today).


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

yes i would wait until tomorrow to test the water.i seen some1 mention about waiting a few hours and test it..but i read elsewhere that you may get a false reading if you were to test it too soon.i would wait several hours atleast before testing the water.

i would add the ammonia.wait a couple hours then test to see if you are at the 3-5.giving the ammonia time to circulate in the water.i just read the ammonia cycle post on here.from what i can understand.its more like u add a few drops..wait 24 hours then test it.if its not at that mark then add a few more drops.wait another 24 hours and test again until u know how many drops it takes to get to the 3-5ppm ammonia level..

since you have done the water change already.wait until tomorrow.test it.if its still above 5 then just wait another day.if its below 3 then add a few drops.wait about 24 hours then check the ammonia.if ur confused but what i said.let me know.i think it might be confusing by what i said.

you might be having somewhat of an ammonia spike.its not so much u added too much.but more the fact the ammonia spiked and u didnt know it..its normal had a spike the other day.i was at .25 and the next day i was at 1ppm..im a week in today..it happened to me on my 3rd or 4th day


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

To be honest, since you're doing a fishless cycle, 6.0 ammonia isn't that bad. Just don't add anymore until it comes back down to around 1.0ppm

Nitrites showing up is a good sign. You're doing perfectly fine.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks for input..I will test tomorrow before adding amonia and let you know.
I so appreciate the help.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i agree..and surly post the results tomorrow


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

The amonia today is still at around 6.0 with a trace again of nitrite.

So should i leave adding amonia today and test again tomorrow?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

yes,i wouldnt add any more ammonia until it starts dropping down.possibly another little water change and then test again tomorrow.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I was about to do a water change and thought i would test it first and i would say its at around 5 now....so perhaps leave the water change and test again in the morning.
Is it a case that i have to keep it consistently at between 3-4 now? so once it drops below that level i should add just a few drops to keep it at that.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

thats a good idea.,give it more time to see if it will drop on its own.and see if there are any changes in the morning and then a water change if needed...

yes keep it constant until ammonia and nitrates start to drop to 0 after a few hours and u get a nitrate reading..

"Eventually both ammonia and nitrite will continually test at 0 ppm and you'll start seeing a reading for nitrate."

then your tank is cycled


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have just ordered the api master test kit from ebay...finding it a little difficult to get an exact reading from the kingfisher tests...they are even showing nitrates at about 10:-?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im not too familiar with kingfisher..i too use the API kit..i know its pretty accurate..its a good decision you made.you can try taking it to your local pet store or fish store and see if they check the water for free.i know here at petco and petsmart they will check your water for free.im not sure if they have them there in the UK..i would think they do though..

nitrates at 10 is a good sign.your tank is cycling.even mine im not too sure the reading.it goes from 0 to 5.nothing in between so i cant tell if it has even just 1ppm nitrates.until it hits a 5 or higher.but you will spike out even at 40ppm..since you have a fishless cycle nothing to worry about


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have my API tests through and these are my somewhat confusing results.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

fairy74 said:


> I have my API tests through and these are my somewhat confusing results.


Excuse the crazy cup in the background:-D


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

is the tube on the very left the ph?

ur nitrate looks to be about 80ppm.

and ur nitrite looks to be about 2ppm

i think u r having thee spike because of the amount of ammonia.

i would still suggest a few more water changes and a few days..not adding any ammonia at all.since you do have a high ammonia ammount.waiting a few days wont hurt any.allowing all of it to kinda go down a little.as well as water changes.making like a 25-30% water change in the morning and the same at night.i do that with mine to keep it at a certain level since i have fish in it.

the only readings i get is ammonia.but im keeping mine down below .50ppm...and ince ur ammonia is high.thats y u have such high nitrate and nitrite.to me its just cycling faster than mine..ur readings are normal i believe.im no expert.but thats based on what i know.

do u have any pictures of ur aquarium?i want to see how much surface area you have for the BB.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

The tube on the left is ammonia..its way way high and i have not added any for days...the substrate from my old tank is getting knocked about by my filter so i guess thats good..will take a pic asap.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

To be completely honest, I think you're doing fine. I wouldn't do any water changes or add any more ammonia. If you were to do a water change you would cut down on the available "food" for the beneficial bacteria. 

Since you have no fish in it just leave the tank alone. Just make sure the filter is running and the water isn't evaporating. It's not something that happens overnight.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Rubbish piccy..i will be adding lots of live plants once cycled(ive gone for the magical theme)


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

id have to agree with bahamut285..my cycle is different because im using fish in cycle.

i like the setup.plenty of surface area.live plants are a great idea.i had some1 suggest it..i went out and bought a few and put in my aquarium.eventually ill add more once the cycling is done as well


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

After doing a 50% water change yesterday as recommended my ammonia is finally down to 4.0ppm Nitrite is 0 and nitrate is below 10ppm.

Im so glad and hopefully its starting to cycle now..i have also added fake plants from my small cycled tank.

But as you need to keep the ammonia at 3-4ppm i am worried that if it drops lower than this and i add pure ammonia to the tank that it will go off the scale again.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

sounds like its kicking into a cycle..ammonia spikes is part of the cycling.i just had mine drop back down to a safer level though i had been doing a lot of water changes..once the nitrate and nitrite kick in.it will take care of the ammonia.if a lot is added.the will knock it back down to zero within a short period of time.nothing to worry about


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ive also highered the heater to 30c.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

the higher temp will help with the cycling


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Just an update and also looking for some reassurance.
Today my ammonia is 3ppm so it is dropping now,nitrite has dropped to 0.25 and nitrate is at 60/70ppm.

I am on day 13 although on day 9 i did a 50% water change due to high ammonia.

Not sure what i ought to be doing next( should i keep the ammonia level up at 4ppm)

Dont wanna mess up now by making it to high again.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Stop doing water changes and monitor it every few hours or maybe the next day. If ammonia drops to 0 as well as nitrite drops to 0, you're done. Then do a large water change to drop the nitrate down to safe levels then you can add your fish.

If ammonia or nitrite do not drop to 0, then you must wait a little longer, but it looks like you're done to me.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

bahamut285 said:


> Stop doing water changes and monitor it every few hours or maybe the next day. If ammonia drops to 0 as well as nitrite drops to 0, you're done. Then do a large water change to drop the nitrate down to safe levels then you can add your fish.
> 
> If ammonia or nitrite do not drop to 0, then you must wait a little longer, but it looks like you're done to me.


Is it possible to cycle so soon?

But i have seeded the tank also so maybe that helped.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

If it was seeded, yes, all the bacteria had to do was move to the filter which is much easier than establishing a fresh colony


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I was worried as i thought you had to keep ammonia up to 4ppm untill nitrite spikes pretty high and then both drop together.

The nitrite only ever reached 2.0 ppm(is that the spike?)

And nitrate was always there to some level.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

The main point is that they should drop to 0ppm because it means that the bacteria are capable of handling a bioload. If you're still unsure about it, you can bump up the ammonia to 4.0ppm again and just wait it out without doing any water changes


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Many thanks for all the help.

Im not in any rush to buy fish but as soon as it is cycled i want to add lots of live plants.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

agree with bahamut285 hault on water changes.wait until the next day.if ammonia and nitrite are at 0 then do the water change to lower nitrate to a safer level and add the fish


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ammonia still on 3ppm and nitrite is on 0...nitrate 50ppm

Arghhhh was hopeing ammonia would have dropped with the nitrite.

Just ordered some live plants from ebay...maybe i got ahead of myself.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

maybe it will take a little longer for the ammonia to go down.id give it a little more time.and see how things work out when adding the plants.they will help


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

The plants will SLOW DOWN the progression of your cycle as they soak up ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

When I cycled the 10 gallon with seeded media from the BioWheel, it took about 5-6 days, I also turned up the heater to 90 degrees F.

No live plants until the night of the introduction.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Can i keep the plants alive untill im ready to add them by keeping them in water?

So i should not add them untill just before fish are added?

Thanks again everyone.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Totally dependent on the types of plants you have. For aquatics, I would plant them in some sort of gravel tank with some filter. 

Feed them with fertilizer drops or just toss in the betta in there. 

He'll move the water around a little bit & the bit of ammonia they'll excrete from their gills will give the plant some nutrients.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

My results today..feeling a little disheartened now.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i have 4 Red Ludwigia planted in pots i made out of plastic water bottles and some medium aquarium gravel.that way its easier to move them around or take out as needed...they are small.my cycle is going well..but im doing a fish in cycle..

your results are a bit confusing to me.due to the fact you still have ammonia and nitrates but no nitrites..hmm...and it doesnt seem to have gone down any since you stopped the water changes and ammonia..


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> i have 4 Red Ludwigia planted in pots i made out of plastic water bottles and some medium aquarium gravel.that way its easier to move them around or take out as needed...they are small.my cycle is going well..but im doing a fish in cycle..
> 
> your results are a bit confusing to me.due to the fact you still have ammonia and nitrates but no nitrites..hmm...and it doesnt seem to have gone down any since you stopped the water changes and ammonia..


Yes they really are confusing,i have no idea what to do now..please someone tell me what to do lol, i even used the API ammonia test to check my other tank and to make sure that the tests were not faulty,but my other tank has 0 ammonia.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

When did you last clean the tank and/or do a water change?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

bahamut285 said:


> When did you last clean the tank and/or do a water change?


I did a 50% water change 6 days ago,the ammonia dropped a bit(from 7-8ppm to 4-5)and then has stayed that way and the nitrite disappeared in a few days with the nitrate staying the same.:-?


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

It sounds like it is being disrupted from all the cleaning and possibly restarted. Just leave it alone, the nitrosomonas will come back. I would do a maximum of BARELY 20% water change.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

bahamut285 said:


> It sounds like it is being disrupted from all the cleaning and possibly restarted. Just leave it alone, the nitrosomonas will come back. I would do a maximum of BARELY 20% water change.


Many thanks for your fast reply, do you suggest i do a 20% change or just leave it?
Also is there a way i can keep my live plants thriving untill i am ready to plant in the tank(i am expecting some i bought from ebay in the next few days)?

I only bought them as i really thought it was almost cycled.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Do a 20% tomorrow, not today.

As for the plants, I have admittedly barely any knowledge on plants (unless it's a mossball, haha) but I suppose they should be fine in a tupperware container filled with water and under the proper amount of light. I would double check this with somebody a little more knowledgeable about plants


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Wow, 160ppm is super high. 



 For the plants, I recommended putting the plants and the betta in a smaller tank, NOT in the 30 gallon tank you're trying to CYCLE.
 


Leaving the plants in just a bowl of water, would most likely cause the plants to slowly decay. 



 Without nutrients & light = plants will slowly wither & die.
 
Right now, I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but your 30gallon tank is not ready to add plants yet until the Nitrates stabilize. 

Also with your results, leave them for at least an hour before dumping them out. 



 Keep a detailed log, and make sure to write down your water test results.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> Wow, 160ppm is super high.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have kept a log from day 1...i have 4 female bettas in a 30 litre right now that already has enough plants.. what live plants i have are in a big plastic bowl right now on the window ledge(i hope they hold out a bit longer)..but thats me getting ahead of myself and buying them ready for my big tank:-?

I so wish i had not added the amount of ammonia i did on day 1(a teaspoon)


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

the only time I did a significant water change like 50% when I noticed ammonia registered in the high 7.0ppm. But mind you, I had 6 guppies in the 6 gallon tank. 

The guppies were showing NO signs of stress. But the 7.0ppm result kinda freaked me out. So I changed 50% of the water, and retested, but it didn't make a difference though. The water tests still came back 7.0ppm. I didn't want to change anymore water, so I waited till 24 hours later.

The ammonia must have been in the 16ppm area. 


If you have no fish, or plants in the 30 gallon, LEAVE it ALONE.

You can do water tests, & write down the results but that's it. Don't change the water at all. 

I ran tests & I continued to jam more established media into the filters, just for the hell of it, in hopes it would speed things up & I think it worked.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i was thinking the same about leaving the aquarium alone and not change anything in it and see what happens..i checked my water earlier and finally got some readings on everything else including the ammonia.o im excited about that...

the plants will be fine in a little bucket or container.can you tell me what kind of plants they are?i could give more info on how to take care of them if i know the kind.like my red ludwigia can be fully submersed or partially submersed to survive.others need to be all the way..they also survive off the ammonia and nutrients in the water.

either way id get a container that they go all the way under the water unless its a floating plant then of course it just floats at the top..use regular tap water which contains nutrients in it that the plants use everytime a water change is made.you could even throw in the aquarium water once the water change is done to give it some ammonia and the other nutrients in the water..if it would make you feel better..and make sure they are sitting under a light.example would be a stove light...they need about 16 hours of light roughly.but 12 is fine also..

white lights are great for it.give me any info on the kind of plant and i can give info back on how to take care of them


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> i was thinking the same about leaving the aquarium alone and not change anything in it and see what happens..i checked my water earlier and finally got some readings on everything else including the ammonia.o im excited about that...
> 
> the plants will be fine in a little bucket or container.can you tell me what kind of plants they are?i could give more info on how to take care of them if i know the kind.like my red ludwigia can be fully submersed or partially submersed to survive.others need to be all the way..they also survive off the ammonia and nutrients in the water.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks.
I have a coconut cave with java moss on top and i should get through the post shortly an anubias hastifolia, and a rotala rotundifolia and some java fern( i did say i got carried away lol).


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

they should be fine in moderate lighting.aquarium light plus any lights that are on in the house/apartment when in use or natural sunlight coming through a window that lights up the room...the anubias hastifolia grow a lot better with high intense light but thats if you want the true colors to come out.the pink and the red as well as the green.though i never had any and want some.i know they will do just fine with normal lighting..

but on any plants.omething to watch out for just like any non aquatic and marine plant is discoloration in the leaves.if they start turning brown or yellow.basically look like they are wilting away or dying then i would recommend getting some plant food for them.but thats if they seem to be dying..

you made great choices on the plants.i really hope to see some pix of the setup once u add the fish and plants in there.also if the plants do seem to be dying..try adding a florescent light next to the tank for a few hours to give them some white light as well.i dont know your budget so im throwing in some cheap alternatives.as i left my job due to some problems and now use coupons to buy food for my fish 

i thought about buying a coconut and making a little hut for my aquariums..im into the asian theme....oh before i forget to mention.if you want to help aide the cycle process.i can give some quick easy info on how to make a moving bed filter.just using a water bottle,aquarium air pump,aquarium hose and some plastic straws.it works great.a cheap and easy DIY project especially if your on a budget.they work as good if not better then the HOB filters and filters you buy from a store.sorry this is a little long.just wanted to share some helpful and useful info as well as throw in my 2 sense about the plants


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> they should be fine in moderate lighting.aquarium light plus any lights that are on in the house/apartment when in use or natural sunlight coming through a window that lights up the room...the anubias hastifolia grow a lot better with high intense light but thats if you want the true colors to come out.the pink and the red as well as the green.though i never had any and want some.i know they will do just fine with normal lighting..
> 
> but on any plants.omething to watch out for just like any non aquatic and marine plant is discoloration in the leaves.if they start turning brown or yellow.basically look like they are wilting away or dying then i would recommend getting some plant food for them.but thats if they seem to be dying..
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the advice,i have them in a plastic tub right now in daylight and will see how they go and maybe add some plant food if they start looking dodgy..or im even thinking of taking the fake plants out of my small 7 gallon and keeping the live plants in there untill the big tank is cycled.

My ammonia today is the same..but in the daylight it kinda looks 2-3ppm rather than 4,(i wish it was a different colour for each number rather than different shades lol)nitrite still on 0 though.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no problem  that would be a good idea as well.i know on youtube you can find videos of each plant.

i noticed in the light it makes a difference..i get my dad to look at it sometimes to see what he thinks..but i check in bright light..and i agree.there should be a different color for each number


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Feeling a little happier today...ammonia is 2ppm and nitrite has gone from 0 to 0.25ppm could things finaly be happening.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

sounds like it to me..my ammonia has dropped a little the past few days.and having readings on nitrite and nitrate...so it sounds like u r getn there  post the results tomorrow as well


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Results today are.

Ammonia 1ppm Nitrite right up to 2.0ppm and nitrate 40ppm

Of course nothing can go smoothly so my pump which came with the tank and is 5 weeks old keeps stopping...i have to take it apart each time and then it runs again for about an hour before stopping grrrrr.

I guess for piece of mind i am going to have to run out and get another as ive come so far with this cycle,but do i get the same one?

Its an aquapet PF3.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

fairy74 said:


> Results today are.
> 
> Ammonia 1ppm Nitrite right up to 2.0ppm and nitrate 40ppm
> 
> ...


Seems to be working ok now..i wonder if i had the outlet to high above the water just to create maximum agitation.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

You're using this brand of in tank filter? 

http://www.pace-aquatics.co.uk/product_detail.cfm?ProductID=40
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/264871-interpet-pf3-soooo-noisy/

Air Pumps = just pump air through air stones. 

That brand is probably only available in UK.

It similar to the Tetra ReptoFilter that I was running, but I disconnected it because it was taking up too much room inside the tank & I was missing a bracket that clips on to the side of the tank. 

I think the PF3 is nicer though. If you're having problems already.....

I wouldn't recommend getting another one. 

What options for HOB style filters do you have over there?

Your water test results look better.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

You guys don't find that coconut cave to have sharp edges? That was one of the ornaments, that I sort of ruled out due it's roughness on the outside.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

what kinda of pump is it?

you can file the edges around the coconut down to smooth them out..i make my own decor for my tank and do that.i also repaired my cracked tank and just filed the edges of the glass down so it wouldnt cut me as i silicone it to the broken part.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> You guys don't find that coconut cave to have sharp edges? That was one of the ornaments, that I sort of ruled out due it's roughness on the outside.


Not at all,i have put it in my smaller tank with my betta females untill my cycling tank is ready and they are loving it..so much excitement lol.

Regards to the filter i was thinking the Fluval3 but my interpet filter seems to be ok now i have submerged it more and i need to avoid a change while cycling(how would you change a brand of filter and keep the bacteria)

I was so thrilled just to see my nitrite shooting up like it has,and ammonia finally coming down..hopefully wont be much longer now.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

take the media from the old filter.and place it infront of the new media in the new filter..taking the cartridge of the old.putting it rite infront of the new.so the water flows thru the old 1 first and then will colonize onto the new 1.thats the best thing i know to do.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

See if you get yourself some filter floss in the future. 

It has so many uses & I have a giant box full of it. 

http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/3C/AC088778.jpg

I prefer using the floss in addition the filter media. 

Do what prodrum recommended. 

But for now, just leave the filter ALONE.

You can always slap another filter in the back of the tank if you come across a good deal on one.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

My ammonia is on 0ppm today, nitrite 5ppm but much brighter than the chart and nitrate is 80ppm.

I really dont wanna mess up now so can someone please tell me what to do next as im scared of overdosing on the ammonia?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

fairy74 said:


> My ammonia is on 0ppm today, nitrite 5ppm but much brighter than the chart and nitrate is 80ppm.
> 
> I really dont wanna mess up now so can someone please tell me what to do next as im scared of overdosing on the ammonia?



Anyone? tank is 29 gallon..how many drops should i add? and how soon after should i test?

Sorry for questions.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im actually not sure myself.since no1 else is replying.ill say what i was omewhat told and asked before.do a small water change.(i had fish in mine so u dont have too) and have a little ammonia to keep the BB there etc..once the nitrite and ammonia are both at zero then stop adding the ammonia


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> im actually not sure myself.since no1 else is replying.ill say what i was omewhat told and asked before.do a small water change.(i had fish in mine so u dont have too) and have a little ammonia to keep the BB there etc..once the nitrite and ammonia are both at zero then stop adding the ammonia


Thanks for your reply appreciate it,just was not sure how much to add...maybe i will go for half a teaspoon.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no problem  i would add just enough to keep the ammonia going.im not sure what ppm half a teaspoon is.for me and because i have fish in cycle.i keep it at 0.25ppm really as long as you have some ammonia i dont think it matters either way.because once the tank has cycle the BB will get rid of the ammonia anyways..so yes id say add the teaspoon.should be fine


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> no problem  i would add just enough to keep the ammonia going.im not sure what ppm half a teaspoon is.for me and because i have fish in cycle.i keep it at 0.25ppm really as long as you have some ammonia i dont think it matters either way.because once the tank has cycle the BB will get rid of the ammonia anyways..so yes id say add the teaspoon.should be fine


I added 10 drops and an hour later the ammonia is at 1ppm so im happy with that.
Will test again tomorrow evening.
And thanks for the advice.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i would think 1ppm is good now that everything is going.it wont over due the ammonia considering you already have the cycle going and will allow enough ammonia to help keep BB alive.its no problem at all.im glad i can help.it also helps me learn.and considering this is my first complete cycle you and i seem to be at about the same.of course im doing fish in cycle,u r using ammonia.but same concept.i just have a little more work rite now to do to keep my fish alive  i think next ill try something different.well as well as adding media from this tank im cycling.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Try to raise it to 2.0ppm and see how long it takes to bring it back down to 1.0ppm and lower. 

Sounds like you're almost there. 

I looked my photos this morning, & confirmed my tank did reach a full cycle in 5-6 days.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Do you guys still have the heater set to 80's-90's?

Once my nitrates started to drop the final day, I did several water tests to confirm the results. 

Then I lowered the temperature of the heater & blasted the tank with the air pump because I heard pumping oxygen will help the bb. 

Oh yeah, before you do that, check with someone else. 

Not sure if my method is correct, but it worked.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i know the BB lives in areas where the i water and oxygen.thats why a lot lives in the filter.but i also made a secondary filter for that reason as well..my temp i at about 78 degrees.but sometimes gets up to 83 when my a/c goes out..i also have live fish so i try not to change the temp.my next tank i might try higher temps since it does help with the cycle..

ive noticed my nitrate are a constant 10 or so and nitrites at a constant 5.i cant seem to lower it.my fish dont like it.but dont seem to care at times.especially feeding.i hope this cycle ends very soon.its been bout 3 or 4 days of having readings on everything


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

My temp has been on 90 the whole time.

My ammonia this morning was at 0 so i have dosed it to just under 2ppm,nitrite still off the chart.

Will check again in 24 hours...getting quite excited now:-D


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

sounds like its close with ammonia dropping.now just gotta wait for nitrite to drop and stay at 0.what is ur nitrite and nitrate readings?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> sounds like its close with ammonia dropping.now just gotta wait for nitrite to drop and stay at 0.what is ur nitrite and nitrate readings?


Nitrite is 5.0ppm i think but it is very bright rather than dark

Nitrate is between 40 and 80ppm.

How is yours doing?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

my nitrite is the same.its bright but really doent look like 2.i had my dad look and he said 2.so i just go with that..my nitrates are at 10..ammonia is either 0 or 0.25..my dad says 0..it about the same as yours except a nitrate difference.mine is contant 10.i think ours will be done very soon


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Just another quick question about my live plants.

I have put them in my small 7 gallon tank and today the anubias hastifolia has a few brown spots on a couple of leaves that dont rub off and also one leaf is kinda splitting.

The Rotala rotundifolia arived as 10 stems...are they ok if they stay floating untill i can move them as there really isnt much bottom space to plant them?

The java fern plantlets i have just dropped in there.

Any advice would be fab.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

the anubias may not have enough nutrients or light..try replacing it with fresh water,maybe with a little water added from the tank since they also take in ammonia and use it..have a brighter light nearby or put it somewhere where light is on it.they need several hours of light.my plants get atleast 10 hours a day but more around 12 or so.

yes they can stay floating.if the tank is crowded like that with plants.u might have them too close together and they arent getting enough sunlight.they need to be spaced apart to allow light to reach all the leaves..the plants floating atop might block the bottom from getting light..

i would for now get a couple buckets or containers the can be submerged in and have space to stretch out.allowing light to reach them all as best as can be done.though im not good with aquatic plants.and im good with none aquatic plants.principles are still the same.light and nutrients..my red ludwigia are growing fairly descent considering the amount of light i have.but they are spaced apart fairly well.so light gets to them all.some had started to die when places in a small 2 gallon tank with small LED lights.as soon as i put it in my 10 gallon it started growing leave and turning red again.

can u take a few pictures of the container u have ur plants in so i can see how u have it set up for now and can determine more on what to do?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Reading your two posts are starting to scare me about buying plants now.

haha....

I forgot all about the browning leaves. 

I'll probably upload some of my neglected plant pictures in this thread.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Fairy, get a air pump & air stone ready. 
ProD, are you using a API master test kit?

I would pump the tank with air bubbles, to see if that would help lower your nitrite & nitrates.

Try to do a test every 12 hours instead of 24.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

The light is on all day in the biorb...it does have a filter built in(not great but this is why im getting a bigger tank)
Ive done a 50% water change in the biorb today..perhaps that may help the plants just untill i can move them.
Will the brown spots dissapear or do they stay once they appear?

Tested the 30Gallon this morning and ammonia 0ppm and nitrite still spiking at 5.0ppm so brought ammonia back to 2.0ppm...so if i test again in 12 hours(which is soon) and the ammonia has again gone back to 0 do i add more?

Many thanks.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

MSG said:


> Fairy, get a air pump & air stone ready.
> ProD, are you using a API master test kit?
> 
> I would pump the tank with air bubbles, to see if that would help lower your nitrite & nitrates.
> ...


yes im using API master test kit.same as fairy


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im honetly not sure if the brown pots will disappear.its the dead part of the leaf.but they look like they might be a little over crowded.they are taking in the nutrients in the water too fast.dont forget bettas take some in also.i would remove all but maybe 1 plant for now and have the others in a bigger container if possible or separate smaller containers.fresh water,good light and they should be fine.but that brown spot is a dead part of the leaf.

Potassium inefficiency most likely.here is a link i fount in a post somewhere else that gives info about the deficiency of plants that might help as well and later in the future..

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-plants/12744-deficiency-list-plants.html 

i would keep adding a little ammonia once it got to zero up until the nitrite and ammonia both hit 0 and u only have nitrates left.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Reason I suggested 12 hour tests is to help determine how fast the bacteria is neutralizing the ammonia. 

I heard adding oxygen through a airstone at the FINAL stages, helps lower the Nitrate/Nitrite numbers by giving the bacteria more air to breath so they can do their work. 



 If you decide to do the air thing.... 6hours after you start pumping air....
Run a test on the Nitrites/Nitrates to see if there's a change in the numbers.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

my nitrates and nit]rites seemed to have dropped as of yesterday.ammonia is about the same.

i read about the air bubbles as well.i actually have my moving bed filter in there thats using an air pump to circulate the media i created.its hooked up to a dual pump.so i have a spare outlet.i had cut some tubing before.i think ill grab my pare airstone and do what u suggested MSG. im glad u mentioned it again


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Oh yeah, you're using that slim filter too? I forget the brand name..

Let me know if the oxygen blast method works.

Here's some of the photos from the cycling of my 10G.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I have a bubble maker going on high so hopefully that is helping.

I just tested the water again as its been 12 hours since i last checked and the ammonia is back to 0ppm and nitrite is still on 5ppm.

So i guess i will be having to add ammonia every 12 hours now to bring it up to 2.0ppm.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

That's good, so you know if you add fish, any ammonia they produce will be neutralized within a reasonable time. 

Another test you may want to try out. Don't add ammonia for 12 hours and see if your NI/NA numbers drop during your next water test.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> Oh yeah, you're using that slim filter too? I forget the brand name..
> 
> Let me know if the oxygen blast method works.
> 
> Here's some of the photos from the cycling of my 10G.



Great pics:lol:

Gonna leave dosing tonight then..and test in morning.
If my nitrites have gone down do i still have to add ammonia to 2.0ppm every 12 hours untill nitrites are on 0?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

The entire time I was doing the cycling..... I ONLY added only 1.0ppm pure ammonia on day 5 or 6 because of what I read on the forum. After that initial pure ammonia dosage, I stopped it completely. It went back to nothing in 3-6 hours.

Basically the only thing I did the whole week was.....
added more established filter media, 
added dirty water from the betta tanks.

That's it.

I think your numbers may go down slightly. If there's a significant change, just leave it alone to see if anything else changes in 12 hours. 

You may just need time for the nitrates to bring down the nitrite. 

Just DON'T add any new water.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i like the pix and setup..im still trying to decide what to do with my 20 gallon hex. 

i was kinda curious about my readings as well.and what ur saying MSG i need to try as well.i changed the water twice yesterday to get the nitrites down since im doing a fish-in cycle.but i think ill also do as u said and not change the water and leave it alone and see what happens.once this cycle is done ill move some media over to my 20 gallon once i start cycling it.

my nitrates seemed to have dropped and my nitrites dropped jut a little..ammonia is roughly the same.isnt going above 0.25 but seems to be at 0 sometimes


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

My nitrite this morning is 0.25 ppm (wow)

Nitrate is between 80 and 160ppm(not as dark as 160 but darker that 80ppm)

Dont know what to do now...should i dose some ammonia and check again in 12 hours?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Are both of your Nitrate/Nitrites lower today?

If so, don't add any more ammonia. Test it again 12 hours from now.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

ProD, 
I should have had another post, but guess I didn't click on the submit button.

You could always remove your fish for a day or two instead of doing the water change. 

I think changing the water will slow things down.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> Are both of your Nitrate/Nitrites lower today?
> 
> If so, don't add any more ammonia. Test it again 12 hours from now.


I had to go out today and i didnt know what to do,so i dosed a quarter teaspoon of ammonia as i worried about losing any of the bb by not adding for so long.

I didnt see this message untill now,so i will check again in a few hours and see where im at.

The nitrites this morning had dropped from 5.0ppm right down to 0.25.
The nitrates are pretty high not as dark as 160 but brighter than 80ppm.

Im hopeing this is finally it.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i thought of removing the fish but currently dont have anywhere to put them.my hospital tanks are preoccupied until my cycling is done.though the fish im using are cheap rosy red minnows.im about to do a water test shortly.hopefully its cycled or about done


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I think ours will be done the same time.

Gonna check mine in an hour or so..let me know your results.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*I think you're finished. Try using your plants to bring the nitrates down.*

Read up on this. I think you can probably add the plants to your tank now to see if they'll absorb the nitrates. I would do that instead of doing the water change.



 What are your water test results for your BiORB where the plants are being housed?
 
Also I think leaving the lights on for more than 12 hours is bad for plants. I think they need a resting period too. I could be wrong on this.


http://www.koi-fish.com/koi-care/fishless-filter-cycling.html
"After a while you will notice that the Nitrite levels will rise and the ammonia levels will fall. That means that Nitrosomonas is growing in your filters. The ammonia level will continue to fall until it is gone and you will be left with a large amount of Nitrite in your pond. After a while you will notice that there will be a buildup of Nitrate in the water. This is Nitrobacter doing its job, its turning Nitrite into Nitrate. When all the Nitrite is gone, the cycle is over and your biological filter is ready for its intended fish load.
Before you add any fish, do a big water change to get rid of the Nitrate. If you aren't able to put Koi in your pond right away, add more Ammonia to keep the Nitrifying bacteria alive."

http://www.freshwater-aquarium-fish.com/water_chemistry.htm
"Both ammonia and nitrate are used as food by plants, thus the nitrogenous waste is converted into plant tissue."

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838
iamntbatman
"Once ammonia and nitrite are pegged at zero for at least a couple of days, you can do a gravel vac to remove the fish food waste and bring the nitrate down to a reasonable level (10-20 ppm or less). At that point you can begin slowly stocking the tank with fish."


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im confused about my results today.even posted a new thread...

ammonia-0
nitrite-2ish(confused exactly to what it is)
nitrate-0
ph-7.6(same as always)

i thought im suppose to have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite and some nitrate.its pretty much the opposite now


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

posted at the exact same time..but maybe the reason i have no nitrates is because of my plants but still have nitrites since its not fully cycled.though nitrites seem to be going down now.and ammonia is at 0.even i throw in extra food to help bring it up.it comes up and goes down again later.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

after reading some of the info.its almost as if im rite at the end.i just need to wait for the nitrite to go away.and i need to stop vacuuming my gravel(havent done it in about 2 or 3 days now,atleast 2 days for sure) only time can tell.i really appreciate the info.it actually kinda helped me figure out some of whats going on in my aquarium and why i dont have nitrate


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

here are my results and a couple pix of my tank setup and moving bed filter..sorry some are blurry.my phone doesnt have a focus or flash.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> Read up on this. I think you can probably add the plants to your tank now to see if they'll absorb the nitrates. I would do that instead of doing the water change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just tested the biorb..
ammonia is 0 nitrite is 0 and nitrate is between 20 and 40ppm,i only did a 50 % water change yesterday..but i do have 4 females in there and not a great deal of room as a lot of plants/ornaments to hide for them.

Cant wait to move them to the big tank.Will test that soon also.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> here are my results and a couple pix of my tank setup and moving bed filter..sorry some are blurry.my phone doesnt have a focus or flash.


Wow love your tank

Perhaps it is the live plants keeping nitrate low.This cycling business is very trying lol.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I just dont get my readings....

I have ammonia 0ppm and nitrite has gone up again to 2/3ppm

What is going wrong? this morning nitrite was down to 0.25.

Nitrate is way high over 80ppm i would say.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

ProD, I don't think you should be cleaning the gravel at all. 

Also I find it hard to focus on the results when I see a box of donuts or cookies in the background. 

I have a rainstorm coming and a ton of work to finish up outdoors before it hits. 

I may not respond till after 8pm EST.


Fairy, you added ammonia a few hours ago, correct? The filter bacteria turns it into nitrites, therefore you will get a HIGHER nitrite reading.

This is why you should have left it alone. 

You're not going to destroy the cycling by not giving it ammonia for a day or two. 

What's the Nitrates now? I'm guessing it will be higher than your last result. 

Don't add any more ammonia


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

BTW, why bother testing the PH? I rarely test the PH because mine is ALMOST always the same. 

I vacuum the gravel maybe once every 2 months or so. Usually even less than that. 

I've noticed the more I clean/mess with the filter the more fish get sick/die. I know what I did wrong now.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

thank you fairy ...yes its the plants keeping the nitrate low.i think once we learn how to cycle it wont be so bad later 

i stopped cleaning the gravel.when i did it.i didnt do a great job.just a quick clean up to get rid of some of the stuff and left more there and added more food later.

haha i had to use it to prop up my results 

i only tested the ph today as w weekly test.just to be certain nothing is changing.on my log i just keep putting the ph as the same since i know it doesnt change.but also wanted to post for my new thread i made so if any1 asked they could see..

im glad u told me about vacuuming rarely and the filter as well..ill start doing that...


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Im expecting big changes tomorrow lol.

So if say my ammonia is 0 and so is nitrite at 0 what then? do i leave it alone?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

if ur ammonia and nitrite i at 0.then ur tank is cycled.to be sure allow 1 or 2 more days and see if its still at 0.if it is then ur done.do a big water change to get rid of the nitrate to more safer levels.no higher than 20ppm nitrate and then start adding the fish etc


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> if ur ammonia and nitrite i at 0.then ur tank is cycled.to be sure allow 1 or 2 more days and see if its still at 0.if it is then ur done.do a big water change to get rid of the nitrate to more safer levels.no higher than 20ppm nitrate and then start adding the fish etc


I thought once both ammonia and nitrite were at 0 then you need to keep adding ammonia untill you add fish to keep the bb going?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

yes,i would add a little ammonia.add too much.u wuld have to wait for it to clear before putting in the fish.but a couple days without ammonia i think would be just fine.i think MSG had said something like that above.u already have the fish.its just a matter of the cycle completing


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

It's not like your filter colony will die off if you don't feed it with ammonia for a while. 

No ammonia = hibernation
Ammonia = wakes up again (just a guess)

I've unplugged my filter for 2 weeks and everything was fine. But keep in mind I do have a Bio-Wheel 400 that has usually double the capacity of most of the filters you guys are using. 

Other brands of filters may not be able to withstand such a long period of inactivity. 

Fairy....

I would add plants first. Then test every 6-12 hours to see if nitrates go down.
Take pictures of your tank in the SAME location to see if the plants are actually growing.
Your results might go up a tiny bit once you introduce the plants, but if if your levels drops over the next 24-48 hours..... I think you're ready to add the fish.
Once you add the fish, DON'T do a water change of any sort for at least a week.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Finally ammonia and nitrite are both at 0ppm

So i guess im done..nitrates about 80ppm.

So time to lower the heat and add the live plants,i wont do a water change yet then but see if the plants lower the nitrate.
I do need to top up the water though from evaporation and all the water ive removed for testing(feels like ive been doing them constantly)

So excited to be at this point:lol:


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Congratz, you're finally done.*

So how long did it take you to cycle the tank?

Nope, I don't top off my tanks. I like them slightly below so the water from the filter hits the surface like a waterfall. It creates a nice pleasant sound & it increases the amount of oxygen in the water. Just make sure the lid/hood fits properly. You don't want water getting on the walls/floors/table. 


Here's proof that I do what I recommend.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> So how long did it take you to cycle the tank?
> 
> Nope, I don't top off my tanks. I like them slightly below so the water from the filter hits the surface like a waterfall. It creates a nice pleasant sound & it increases the amount of oxygen in the water. Just make sure the lid/hood fits properly. You don't want water getting on the walls/floors/table.
> 
> ...


Love the pics,looks fantastic.

I havnt had the chance to add the live plants yet,typical that for the next two days im real busy.
Do i need to do anything like add ammonia as i cant get any fish for a few days?
Also i have to get some netting or something to cover the large feeding whole in the evaporation lid as one of my bettas always jumps at feed time.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

You should take a picture of the feeding hole. 

I think you can use a candle holder or a shot glass. I prefer shot glasses since I don't drink much. 

Actually I'm going to do this for my tank right now. 

YAY, it works. So much better than what I used before & there's no chance it will fall out/knocked over.

If you're home, before you wash up for bed, toss the plants in there.

Like I said, I unplugged my filter for 2 weeks and it was fine. 

If you don't add ammonia for the next day or 2, then, your NITRATEs should go away, but just tossing the plants in there for the time being would be a better solution. 

I would open the hood and just throw the plants in.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok i will do that and properly arrange the tank before i add any fish.

What temp is best?

The feeding whole is way bigger than what a glass would fit in and is rectangular..im sure i have an old piece of net i could use.

Overall the tank cycled in 24 days.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Use a old CD case or something. You could use a square shaped ashtray too.

You do the the research on the best temperature. I forget what you have in your tank.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

well today everything but nitrite is coming out at 0..nitrite has dropped down to 0.25..which is lower then yesterday.

looks like fairy is done,.id surly put the plants in now.and see what the results are the next day..MSG has a lot of plants.i like the setup....
i guess i have a little longer to wait.hopefully its done by the start of next week


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

ProD, did you do the air pump thing as well?

Also what are those candy cane looking items?

Are you using candy straws as filter media?

Also those photos are a couple months ago, fish stripped most of the plants. 

Literally they ripped the leaves off the plants. Another reason why you may not want rosy barbs. 

I have 20% of those plants now.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

oh no.i didnt use the air stone.i had problems getting the hose to fit.i meant to soak them in water to help stretch them a little.but got side tracked.i need to do it now that u reminded me again..

they are drinking straws in the bottle.

1 of my plant had started to die because it was in another smaller tank.lighting not so good.now that its in my 10 gallon.its growing again.my rosy reds seem to kinda peck at it once in a while.but my plants are fine.and i doubt my bettas will bother them.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

well i broke my small airstone,it got stuck in the tubing as i was trying to stretch it a little.and the hookup snapped rite off.i went digging thru my other stuff and fount a huge air stone with a long rubber hose.i hooked it up.i have a dual port air pump putting out 30-80 gallons.as it says on the pump.i adjusted the nob so its low rite now..though i would have thought my moving bed filter would put out enough oxygen just like an airstone


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

woohoo i think my cycle finished....i just took the results.especially with the nitrite since it was the only thing left that had a reading.checked it twice.once by accident..

everything is at 0..here is the pix..

behind this time is not doughnuts.but my betta bowl with my female in it.i think u can see her tail at the top right.shes waiting for another tank to cycle.but thesse are my results.oh MSG i added the air stone when my nitrite was at around 0.25 and not long after it dropped fast.  good tip.i know thats what did it also.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

double post


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok so i added the live plants yesterday and checked the nitrates this morning, they were still 80 or more ppm, so i did a 50% water change and checked 6 hours later and they are down to 40ppm.
Should i do another water change to get them down to 20ppm as i intend to get some fish tomorrow evening?

I also just tested my biorb and that is on the same...very odd as the fish have been quite happy in there for several months.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

the plants take a few days to soak in..even i had an ammonia spike of like 20 or more with plants in the entire cycle.after a while it went back down.so i think ur just having that last minute cycle spike,something like that.and after a few days it will drop.i would do a big water change now if ur going to get fish tomorrow.

u tested ur other parameters?im sure they would be the same


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> the plants take a few days to soak in..even i had an ammonia spike of like 20 or more with plants in the entire cycle.after a while it went back down.so i think ur just having that last minute cycle spike,something like that.and after a few days it will drop.i would do a big water change now if ur going to get fish tomorrow.
> 
> u tested ur other parameters?im sure they would be the same


My nitrates have been consistently high the whole way through the cycle,my ammonia and nitrite have been at 0 for a few days now.

Heres the odd thing..i just tested my tap water and the nitrates were the same as my tank lol, so either i have some very weird water or the nitrate test is wrong.
I did the whole bottle shaking and banging it on the table for ages:-?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

hmmm that is weird to get a reading for nitrates in tap water.i would get a tube and clean it well..rinse it under some hot water and even shake the tube with the lid on it and keep rinsing.just to make sure its cleaned out..let it air dry a couple minutes.and test again.

i know when i test my water i only get ph results at 7.6...which is what my tank is always at so i stopped testing ph..but im in the states and ur in the UK.id also say try testing a neighbors water and see if u get the same results.when u rinse out the tube rinse out the cap as well.

shake it dry in the sink.but becareful.i shook mine dry in the sink.and broke a tube yesterday.

try rinsing it out very well now if u can.and testing the water in the aquarium and see what happens.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

here is a little info i fount online..

http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/consumers/advice-leaflets/nitrate.pdf

http://www.accepta.com/industry_water_treatment/nitrate_drinking_water.asp

and this is from a fish forum site
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/70502-high-nitrates-in-tap-water-is-that-right/

In a UK house, water comes into the house. 
Cold water is all the same.
Then, cold water goes into tank to be heater for hot water, then thats the same all round the house.

Let the water run through for a while, sometimes it can be sat in the pipes for a while. Then try it again.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Oh gees. was it with you two and gravel cleaning and changing water.

Not good. Stop doing it. 

Plants take time to use up nutrients. Changing out the water sort of robbed them of the food. 

The more you clean the gravel and mess with the water by changing it constantly will disrupt the filter.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

With a larger tank, you don't have to do as many cleanings/water changes. 

I only do water changes once every 2 weeks or so. 

For the sorority tank, I've only changed the water ONCE since it cycled back on 7-21-12. 

That was more like 40% and I only vacuumed half the tank. I'm going to the beach & I'll clean their tank tomorrow since the girls are sort of playing nicely.

Also my readings have been .25-.50 ppm ammonia & 0 ppm nitrites


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

didnt read the whole thing... but did you give your testing bottles a good shake and a feww twacks on a hard surface?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

One of the girls in the biorb is refusing to eat today..shes usually the bossy greedy one and does have a bit of a swollen tummy compared to the rest,although she is still flaring if any others goes near her and wanting to be hidden.

I never cleaned the sand in the big tank but will leave well alone now,im pretty sure its ready to add fish as all the nitrate readings are the same(tap/biorb/large tank)on some cheaper test strips i have the nitrates are 20ppm.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Aok.... You're talking about the plastic test solution bottles & not the glass test tubes, correct?

I've cracked/shattered several of those test tubes from just knocking them over in the sink.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

It's obvious the greedy one has eaten too much. Don't feed miss piggy for a week. 

If she's trying to hide, there's something wrong with her. She's probably just constipated because she ate something she shouldn't have. 

This is one reason I'm not sure if I'll the sand route. I would worry about one of them eating sand and clogging up the plumbing. 

Sand is bite sized especially the pool filter sand.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> It's obvious the greedy one has eaten too much. Don't feed miss piggy for a week.
> 
> If she's trying to hide, there's something wrong with her. She's probably just constipated because she ate something she shouldn't have.
> 
> ...


Hahaha Miss Piggy...i think you have just named my betta fish,thanks.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

MSG said:


> Oh gees. was it with you two and gravel cleaning and changing water.
> 
> Not good. Stop doing it.
> 
> ...


lol,i havent cleaned it for a while.actually only touched it to feed the fish and get water samples out.and ur rite about the robbing of food when changing water.im curious to y i have between 0 and 5 nitrates.interesting.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

thats a good name for a fish.i wish id name mine that.she was a heifer..u would think i had a cow in the tank not a fish..

any1 know how hard it is to have sand for substrate?i want more a natural look in my next tank.and heard its hard to take care of sand well clean it..ive gotta get my other tank going asap to get my other girl out of the little bowl.and need to get my male into the 10 gallon.once i know its cycled completely.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I like to pick names that other people won't choose, Miss piggy is too common. Piglet or Hamlet would be better.

But thanks all those mosquitos I've been catching over the past week. Most of my girls have nice round bellies like a pregnant salmon. They don't look bloated but just really healthy.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

MSG said:


> Aok.... You're talking about the plastic test solution bottles & not the glass test tubes, correct?
> 
> I've cracked/shattered several of those test tubes from just knocking them over in the sink.



lolololol
yes! the plastic, not the tube!!! haha
I havent cracked mine yet, but the glass does seem fragile


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

thats true.im actually not 1 to really name any.though i thought of naming 1 of my female after my girl.they act alike.bratty,stubborn..her dad even calls her a brat.so i may name her donna,though a common name.and my girl is from the philippines..or i could name my fish ella mae or suan..i know donna would love to hear me using 1 of her names to name my fish hehe...

name the male adonis after her dad.the other female dezza after her sister.that acutally doesnt sound like a bad idea..

i feed my bettas little baby roache sometime if they crawl around and i catch them.or the roach will just fall into the water.fount my male eating a large roach 1 day.im ure he fell in and the betta went after it.whata treat.  i now have to cut back on the females food.they getn a little belly going.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I have a giant bag of 5.5ML vials that I got from a chemical lab. Problem is 5ML is almost to the top of the container, once you start adding the test drops, it will overflow. They're good for doing half sized water tests though. 

What a betta looks like after eating 120 or so mosquito larvae in a few days to treat her injuries.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4268/2012augustsenetti8daysk.jpg


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

aokashi said:


> lolololol
> yes! the plastic, not the tube!!! haha
> I havent cracked mine yet, but the glass does seem fragile


ive already broken a glass tube.though i was cleaning it out and shaking it to dry it out.hit the side of the sink.i can cut it down and still use it.since i have like half an inch above the 5ml line that would be good..


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

MSG said:


> I have a giant bag of 5.5ML vials that I got from a chemical lab. Problem is 5ML is almost to the top of the container, once you start adding the test drops, it will overflow. They're good for doing half sized water tests though.
> 
> What a betta looks like after eating 120 or so mosquito larvae in a few days to treat her injuries.
> 
> http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4268/2012augustsenetti8daysk.jpg


i thought about doing just half the amount as intended.using like 2.5 ml water and half the dosage amount.to save on my testing kit and i should get the same reults.wanted to post a thread on here asking about it but never did,,,

surly doesnt look over feed.indeed healthy.love the colors


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)




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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ive smashed one of mine...is it ok to use plastic tubes instead?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Any type of tube that can hold & visually display 5ML would work. 

I got my bag of test tubes from a laboratory. 

You can definitely half the solution & still get results, not as accurate though. 

These tubes are more for holding fluids, not displaying accurate measurements. 

Plastic is less likely to break, but it can be be harder to clean if an acid/alkaline etches the inside of the container. 

I think these tubes were meant to be used once @ disposed of.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

plastics are usually meant for a 1 time use.but of course can be used again and again depending on what its used for and if cleaned out properly.only thing id be a little worried about getting good results is the ammonia testing.as long as its not sitting in there a long time and is rinsed rite away after getting the results it should be fine.  

its a good thing then i didnt use half the dosage and water.or im sure id be thinking something is really wrong.i just wanted to do it to save a little money.especially im not working.but once im working again ill go out and buy another test kit.though the 1 i have has way more than half the bottles full though.ive had it for a couple months.well maybe 3 months.i forgot exactly.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Im gonna test my nitrates again in the morning, i have read a few interesting articles tonight about the API test kit....apparently this one guys test results were always 80ppm (like mine,even tap water) so he took the sample to the lps and they tested it and it was 15ppm..the difference being they didnt shake the crap out of it..more like shook it gently.

Is this where i may be going wrong? because by time ive finished shaking the tube it has hardly anything left lol.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

yeah, you need to shake the API nitrate bottles really hard.actually its just one of them... bur since I cant remember which off the top of my head, i'll just say to vigorously shake both...

its not the tube as much as the bottles of test solutions...


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

aokashi said:


> yeah, you need to shake the API nitrate bottles really hard.actually its just one of them... bur since I cant remember which off the top of my head, i'll just say to vigorously shake both...
> 
> its not the tube as much as the bottles of test solutions...


Yeh its the second bottle...im building up some great arm muscles.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)




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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

maybe its y i have no readings on my nitrate..i think il test again later and then tomorrow and see what happens...i know 1 of them u gotta shake and bang like crazy...lol i too am getting a great work out.my right arm will be huge..


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

So how long do you guys shake the test tubes? 

Also with the test solutions, make sure the cap is screwed on TIGHT & rinsed WELL under the water before you shake them HARD. That blue stuff from the ph solution can stain really good. 

I always find little bits of solution stuck inside the tops of the caps. Not sure if rinsing it with a bit of water is good/bad because it could possibly get inside the test solution bottle when you recap it. 



 With the glass tubes, I go about 10-15 seconds like I'm making cocktails for the fish.
That's the biggest problem these drop test kits. Results can vary if you tilt the bottle or add too much/too little water. 

That's why those laboratory transfer pipettes come in very handy. Whenever I try the tilting the test tube to the side to get out excess water it's always too little or too much.

Also keep your test kit stored away from the sun & heat.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

MSG said:


> So how long do you guys shake the test tubes?
> 
> Also with the test solutions, make sure the cap is screwed on TIGHT & rinsed WELL under the water before you shake them HARD. That blue stuff from the ph solution can stain really good.
> 
> ...


i shake it for about 10 second up to 20 seconds..i put it inside a rag when shaking it.1 of my tubes kinda leaks.so i do know the blue stuff stains..as soon as im done getting the results.i rinse it out and shake out as much as i can..

i use a dropper to fill the tube up.the dropper holds 2.5ml liquid.so 2 droppers is for 1 tube  makes it so much easier as u mentioned above getting the rite amount is hard.if i have too much.i put the dropper in and slow take out water.

in the morning when i wake up ill test my water.if it still comes out with the same results.then ill put my male in the tank.tomorrow will be the 3rd day.and i should be fine.even with him in there.for the first few days of him in there ill keep checking.if anything change and is too much for him.the hospital tank is ready


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

oh my test kits stay stored inside the thing my 10 gallon is on.all metal.very dark inside


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

1.5G Tetra Water Wonders

*Day 1 *(1-4 hours after the RedSea Nano Filter was running, 25W Visi-Therm heater was added & set at the max temp of 89F) Water level is @ 1gallon or so.

Test Results @ 2pm


PH 7.2-7.6
Ammonia .25ppm-.50ppm 50% (1G = conditioned/50% established water)
 Nitrite .50ppm
 
*Day 2* (Heater set @ 89F, & added the top half of the dirty light protein film water from all the bettas in the hospital tanks. Water level is now at 1.4G) 

After using the digital thermometer to check all the tank temps, the Tetra tank was actually at 97-98 degrees, maybe higher at some points of the day. I never intended to let the water get past 90 degrees. Also NEVER realized the the VS heater can reach such a temperature. Good to know and another positive feature of this heater that I was unaware of. Makes it another heater that's great for treating ich type parasite infections. 

Test Results @ 1pm



PH 7.2-7.6
Ammonia .50ppm-1.0ppm
 Nitrite 2.0-5.0ppm maybe even higher. This huge increase in Nitrites are definitely from the EXCESS heat.
 *
Day 2.5* - 2pm (Disconnected the VS heater after the 98F temperature reading & introduced a weighted perforated airtube. Tried to full blast oxygen through the stone, but the built in air holes are too small, too tired lazy to find a needle & left it. Also since the cover for the Tetra tank doesn't fit because of the Red Sea HOB nano filter, water would have gotten everywhere.)

Test Results @ 9:20PM


 PH 7.2-7.6
 Ammonia .25-.50ppm
 Nitrite .25ppm
*Misc notes.....*


Tank water level 1.4 gallons.
 Red Sea Filter packed with established media from the 10G Sorority
 No substrate yet.
No live plants
Betta cave on the bottom
 
 Hope this is helpful to someone.

I'll do the nitrate tests tomorrow. Doesn't make sense to do when there's no nitrites yet, but now there's a huge drop, the nitrates should have arrived to the party. 

For now, I left my API water test kits in the bathroom on a cabinet next to the window since that's where I use them. I made the mistake by leaving the results chart too close to the window. UV rays may have faded the chart colors a little. Who knows.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

gonna be tough cycling a small tank...now that i think about it.i dont have a heater for my 2o gallon.though it gets no colder than 74 in here.and the only time i ever see my other heaters on is when i replace the water.im jobless.so getting a heater rite now is out of the question...

maybe the nitrates have arrived jut not as high as expected..hmm even then i would think u would still have some..it dditn seem to take long to get the cycle started though..


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I shake the bottle for 30 seconds and the test tube for 60 seconds as it says to..also after adding the drops from the first bottle i tip the tube up several times.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Day 3*
Test Results @ 7:20AM



 PH = 7.2-7.4
 Ammonia = 0ppm
 Nitrite = 0ppm

Nitrates = I guess I've been doing this test WRONG. I only have bottle #1 Not sure where bottle #2 is. 

This is one of the tests where I would do half the amount of everything. 

Also with the Nitrite tests, I just read the instructions and they said shake the thing for 5 seconds. I usually ONLY shake for 15 seconds, this morning I shook it for 60 seconds. 

The instructions are the same for the ammonia tests. Shaking time = 5 seconds.

ProD, remember for the tetra 1.5G I'm using a cycled Red Sea Nano filter that I moved from the 10G sorority tank. There's still 2 whisper filters running on the 10G. Whisper Power 10 & Whisper Power 20. 

Here's what they look like and there's also a sale on them as well.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3643

That's weird the smallest filter Dr Foster has for sale is the 20, but I do have a Whisper Power 10


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

This morning i tested the two tanks and my tap water again..this time i banged and shook the number 2 bottle like crazy for like 2 minutes, and yet they all still show between 40 and 80 ppm.

It surely must be my testing kit.

I will take a sample to the lps tonight when i go get my cories.
It cant be right as my bettas have been very happy in their tank for several months now.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

oh yes thats rite..i forgot u mentioned about it being a cycled filter  i have a big filter,i dont know what kind it is..but its big.looks like for a 50+ gallon aquarium.i thought of using it on my 20 gallon hex,but that might be too much especially for a single betta.and if i ever add anything else to the tank.it might be a couple neon tetras.nothing big.just something for extra color.

rite now i cant even afford a thing of food for my fish.luckily i got tons of it from all the kits i bought and the stuff i bought on craigs list,un opened containers.

i did my tet again today also.i shook the #2 nitrate bottle like i use to.i got a reading of 5ppm.so my problem before was either i wasnt shaking like i hould have and did previously.or they just dropped slightly not o give me a reading because i noticed when getting readings before it was never actually 0.it was between 0 and 5.but my scale doesnt show anything between it as u both know.

MSG could a 1.5 gallon cycle in just 3 days?seems kinda fast even for it being seeded..hmmm.i wonder how long it will take to cycle my 20 gallon when seeded.

fairy i would surly bring sample water to the pet store.infact i would get samples of ur tap water.and both tank waters.it doesnt make sense y u have such high readings.especially u have plants in them now.id shake both nitrate bottles like crazy and then the test tube as well.if ur not already doing that


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

This is what is added to the water in my area...if i am reading it correct than nitrate is 50mg.

http://www.southernwater.co.uk/homeAndLeisure/whereILive/default.asp?wdgt76506983=0_0


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

it doesnt show anything.asking for postcode.and has a list of things but only says n/a..it must have not saved the data when u posted or noticed my ip is different/i dont have the cookies for that site to get the results for u..

u can take a screen shot and post it and or share postcode...or u can copy the info in it and just post here...

though im not sure what 50mg corresponds to when testing.hmmm..but if ur having nitrate in the water it would make sense why its showing up in ur test.even from the faucet.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Did you miss the section where I mentioned my 10G sorority tank cycled in 5-6 days? 

I've confirmed everything after I looked at my photos. 

Actually I did accidentally delete 500 or 700 photos during the uploading process & 50 or 100 those included the part where I added the gravel and first arranged the plastic plants.

The only way I can completely verify my results is to cycle the 20G long tank.

I think someone on this forum mentioned they were able to cycle a tank in 10 days. 

Size of that tank I don't think they mentioned. 

But I knew I wanted to BEAT that record of 10 days that's why I used 5 filters at the beginning & I jammed as much established filter media as possible.

The big thing that I did differently from you & fairy is I didn't TOP off the water or CHANGE the water at any point of the cycling process.

I just kept adding more established filter media floss after the 2nd or 3rd day.

I did add SeaChem stability to the filter media but I only used 1 application, distributed that recommended dosage to all the filters.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i did.i didnt notice.or if i did notice i must have forgotten.hmm..my mind has gone blank sometime lately 

i too dont top my water off.only when i do water changes then i top it off.i now stopped changing the water and wont do it in the 20 gallon.

i dont have much filter media.other than like some straws in my moving bed filter to which ill take out some and put in a new moving bed filter that ill make to help seed.im hoping thats enough to jump start the cycle.i would like to get it done faily fast.but i also dont have a heater for that tank yet.

i wish i had thrown more stuff in the cycling tank when i started so by the time it was done and i started my 20 gallon.i had a lot of media to start with.i know it will take weeks if i put it in the 10 gallon now.so ill just start with what i have and go from there

im using stuff i got from a guy for 20 bucks off craigslist.he sold me a box of a bunch of good stuff

do u think its safe to put my male betta in my just cycled 10 gallon now?3 days already and ammonia and nitrite come back 0.nitrate is at 5..i really want him out of the hospital tank so i can put my girl in something bigger until the 20 gallon is cycled.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Just got back from the pet shop and my readings with their API for nitrates was 15 very odd.

Got 3 albino cories and 3 bronze cories which are floating right now.
The lady tried to convince me that i ought to get a male betta for my females..um i dont think so.

But im pretty happy that i finally got some fish, i will wait a week before adding the female bettas


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

haha... the fish people always try to sucker you into buying more fish. 

Don't you have to QT the cories?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> haha... the fish people always try to sucker you into buying more fish.
> 
> Don't you have to QT the cories?


Nope they go straight in(after acclimatising them).


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

when do you suggest i feed them? as its a new tank there wont be anything they can scavange...i do have some sinking pellets just for catfish.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

They'll eat anything that hits the floor. Be careful with the cories because their foods are usually made out of shrimp & they take a long time for the corys to eat. 

Bettas really like to snack on them too.

You're supposed to drop the pellets after the lights go out or the bettas will find them.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I would ask the members in the forum about whether or not you should QT the fish. 

I think you should qt, because you took almost a month to cycle. 

I would add the girls to the cycled tank, put the cories in the biorb for qt period.

Cories are bottom feeders and that's where most of the parasites hang out.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> I would ask the members in the forum about whether or not you should QT the fish.
> 
> I think you should qt, because you took almost a month to cycle.
> 
> ...


The cories are already in there..cant really put them in the biorb because of the sharp substrate(stones)

I thought that bettas should go in last as they are territorial.

They all seem to be scavenging already on all the decor lol, they are very lovely.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

read a little info here and there and u should QT anything rather fish or plants for about 2 or 3 weeks to make sure they are healthy...but that also depends on the person.

i dont really quarantine anything.if it came from like a river or in the wild then yes i will for sure.before i didnt know much about the quarantine period so didnt think about it.only if i had a fish that got sick..

its ok to put the betta now that my tank has been cycled for the past 3 days?


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> I would ask the members in the forum about whether or not you should QT the fish.
> 
> I think you should qt, because you took almost a month to cycle.
> 
> ...


I shall know better in future thanks...they seem to be doing well.
Is it normal for them to be darting about so much to the top of the tank?

Getting worried about the betta sorority after reading all of the sticky on them...even thinking of lowering the amount of bettas to be added now and perhaps getting a small shoal of black neon tetras.

Is it best to have say 5 tetras and 5 or 6 bettas or just go for 9 or more bettas and no tetras?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

in a 10 gallon 5 females is jut fine.i heard of 7 being in a 10 gallon but i think its too much.they need space.i went with 5.had to separate 1 then went and got another 5th.all 5 got along just fine.

or get about 5 or 6 tetra and 1 betta.that would work out a lot better i think.but it alsso depends on the 1 betta u get.rather or not its too aggressive,


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> in a 10 gallon 5 females is jut fine.i heard of 7 being in a 10 gallon but i think its too much.they need space.i went with 5.had to separate 1 then went and got another 5th.all 5 got along just fine.
> 
> or get about 5 or 6 tetra and 1 betta.that would work out a lot better i think.but it alsso depends on the 1 betta u get.rather or not its too aggressive,


Its a 29 gallon...i already have 6 corys in there.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i would go to the link i posted below and find out if ur tank can handle that much fish.i think it might be too much.but im not sure..this website will give u an idea on what ur setup can handle and give little tips about it as well.its what i used for my tank 

http://aqadvisor.com/


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Stocking level is 71% if i have 6 cories,7 betta and 5 black neon tetras.

Im just so undecisive as to leave out the tetras and have more bettas to minimise aggresion lol.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i think that might be too much for the bettas.i mean the amount of fish in that tank.along with the bettas.at 71% thats a little low.too many fish in itself.for 29 gallons 7 bettas should be good.but i do agree the more the least amount of aggression towards 1 betta  i just had 5 bettas.i didnt have them with anything else.and ill be adding my male to my 10 gallon with 4 rosy reds.this is my first time having other fish with a betta other than bettas itself.

u can try mix matching on that website.and see what it comes up with as well as having others reply.id like to see others opinions as well.maybe they are the opposite of mine.but im sure they have more experience with it as well


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Im thinking that tetras might be a distraction for the girls.

I am also thinking dont get tetras,add my 4 girls from the biorb in a few days..QT say 5 more females and then remove the 4 girls for a while and then add all of them together.

Hope that makes sense.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i know they are attracted to bright colors but from what ive read teatras r good with bettas.of course it depends on the girl itself how aggressive she is.i have 1 that cant be kept with any other fish.shes in her own 2 gallon.

when u add them.u want to add the least aggressive first and most aggressive last.if u take the 4 out and add them later.u will have to redo the decor and everything so they can reestablish a pecking order.giving all the females a chance to claim territory and setup a pecking order.

i didnt put mine in until i had all 5 girls.let them sit in cups looking at each other for a few days to see who is aggressive and isnt then put them in waiting about 30 minutes between each girl and then adding another until i completed.then watched them constantly.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

What do you mean by cups?

We get our fish all together in a bag...all female bettas are in a tank together at the lps and they bag them up together.

Do you have a piccy?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

really?thats different than here.we get them in little cups with a hole at the top.they are never kept in an aquarium together.that even betters they are kept together there.they are more use to each other  here is a link with a picture of 2 males in separate cups..

http://www.5dtropical.com/images/fish/ftrfish/ftrbettas.jpg


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> really?thats different than here.we get them in little cups with a hole at the top.they are never kept in an aquarium together.that even betters they are kept together there.they are more use to each other  here is a link with a picture of 2 males in separate cups..
> 
> http://www.5dtropical.com/images/fish/ftrfish/ftrbettas.jpg


I guess this makes a big difference..all the female bettas are kept in one tank here(and there are a lot) which may explain why mine get on so well..also you only get occasional males and each one is put in a tank with another community fish.

The females are also all of pretty much the same colours(not like the lovely orange/red ones i have seen on this forum.

They let you choose what you want and then bag them together and let you look them over to make sure they are acceptable.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Like this.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i like that setup better.so those who want to have a sorority can get females at the same time and they will most likely get along a lot better.only thing i think would cause a problem is being in a new tank.so they will have to create another hierarchy which i think wouldnt be so bad since they do know each other.the original dominant 1 wont be there so they will create a new 1.

i think pet stores here should do that.i thought of having an aquarium store and specializing in bettas.thats a good idea for the setup.though i wont have 1 anytime soon


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

They have like 40+females in a tank.. no plants or decor so no room for fighting,there would not be a dominant one amongst that lot i assure you.

May try and take a sneaky piccy next time i am in there.

The lady i spoke to yesterday said they get sold very quickly.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

thats not good for the girls.but since they do get sold fairly quickly.im sure they dont have time to create a hierarchy.but atleast they have sometime to get use to each other.

just dont get caught taking a picture..im sure they wont like it


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> really?thats different than here.we get them in little cups with a hole at the top.they are never kept in an aquarium together.that even betters they are kept together there.they are more use to each other  here is a link with a picture of 2 males in separate cups..
> 
> http://www.5dtropical.com/images/fish/ftrfish/ftrbettas.jpg


Awww i can see why you would wanna rescue them,they are so tiny::-(


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

yes.and the ones ive seen the water is dirty.they say they clean it out daily.but when i go in sometimes.its as if its not cleaned for days.a lot of people on here rescue them because of those cups.its a shame.ive noticed people at the stores dont really know much about bettas.a couple do who own them but many dont own any..

they need bigger cups atleast or a setup like where ur at.all in 1 big aquarium that the water is maintained not to stress them out atleast.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*No wonder your girls get along.*

If that's how bettas are housed in the stores in the UK & most of the fish are the same color variation then there's a very good chance they're from the same spawn. 

The bettas we typically see in the US stores come in all sorts of colors, but they're from different spawns with different parents/genetics. I think the pet stores realize that the best way to sell more bettas is to increase the COLOR selection. Each pet store purchaser I would assume would work with a different breeder to get their inventory.

Keep in mind if you choose different colored female bettas they might fight more. But as long as you have the larger than normal tank like you're housing them in, and places to hide, then the girls should be fine. 

If you think about it, in their wild environment you wouldn't want the betta fish that hatched in the same spawn to kill each other. Ideally you want them to venture out and kill/injure any other fish from another betta clan so your genes survive.


When my girls were introduced, they immediately started to flare, body shaking, tail slapping, etc... that's not a dance. That's their way of showing dominance/power/etc... Within seconds if one doesn't back down, they're ripping each other's fins and anything else they can sink their mouths onto. 

If I were you, since you've already released the cories, just introduce the girls you have now, pray they don't come down with a disease, and stop by the pet store next time they receive their fish shipment, so you can get first pick of the bettas. If the store doesn't have any bettas in the color you want, just wait till they do. 

I'm holding off buying another betta till I come across a fire/phoenix orange or a really unique colored female.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

This is what i am worried about,when i got my cories they had a new shipment of bettas in and there were a few that i really liked..so my concern is that when i purchase a few more new ones my original bettas will gang up on them.

I do intend on taking out the 4 i already have and then reintroducing them all together after a bit of a rearrange..this is why i asked that if you put girls to gether in a new tank do they still remember each other or is it like a whole new ballgame?

Im going to give the cories a few more days to see how they go...still all very active today so fingers crossed they are gonna be fine.

You do get guarantees from the pet shop that they are disease free..perhaps as the shop is also a veterinarian they make sure of it(it would not look good otherwise)


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

You can always remove the cories and put them in the biorb, I know you think the gravel is too sharp, but it's not going destroy their barbels in 2 weeks unless it's REALLY sharp.

Once the cories are out of the 29G, I would raise the temperature to cook out any potential parasites. 

Another member just had a massive outbreak of disease and other weird stuff and I'm pretty sure it's because he didn't QT his plants. He QT'ed the fish, but not the plants.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Over here, depending on which store, they offer a 15 day guarantee, if your fish die, just bring in your receipt, sample of your water and the fish and they'll give you a new one. I've never had to use it yet. The other store with the 30 day guarantee, I'm not too keen on because I've never really talked to their employees.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

You got me real worried now ,the last thing i want is to mess up all the work put in.

I really dont think the cories would get on in the biorb as the substrate that comes with it are like small sharp rocks and not much floor space.

How long should they be QT for? and if there were something wrong would they show signs by now?
Also would the water prams change if there were a problem brewing?

Basically what should i look out for?
Thanks for the advice.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I have no idea with that, since my success rate with diseases hasn't been good. 

In the past I haven't bothered with the QT stuff, but I after acquiring the girls, I've been more vigilant about following them. I'll have to do the same with plants too. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=110019 here's the link to the other member's sorority problem in case you can't find it.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

The new female bettas when i get them will be spending a few weeks in the biorb thats for sure, although there will be 5 would this be ok as its only temporary?

Eventually there will be 9 bettas and 6 cories in the tank and then im done.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I would pick 2 at time, unless you see 5 that you like immediately. 

Whenever you introduce them you're supposed to remove all the GIRLS, and redecorate the tank before you reintroduce all of them. 

You should also doublecheck your decorations for sharp edges or sections where one can get trapped.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I saw your castle decoration, but I have yet to find 1 resin style castle that's SAFE for bettas. The one you have I'm sure is not available in the US.

Here's an example of what happened to one of my girls after she made a full recovery from injures from being attacked by the alpha. 

I thought it would be fun to let her get some exercise in my guppy tank, and this is what happened the next day. 

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9...12frocks41.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4...12frocks42.jpg


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

The fish love it,its made for biorbs to cover the bubble tube and has hiding places for them.

Maybe i should get three at a time rather than put just two together.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

MSG said:


> I saw your castle decoration, but I have yet to find 1 resin style castle that's SAFE for bettas. The one you have I'm sure is not available in the US.
> 
> Here's an example of what happened to one of my girls after she made a full recovery from injures from being attacked by the alpha.
> 
> ...


Aww poor girl.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I'm just a bit annoyed since she just recovered from almost having her head ripped off by the red alpha female. Senetti's way too inquisitive, literally within 3 minutes of being released into the guppy tank, she knocked off some scales/slight cut near her face trying to suck out a ramhorn snail.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

She sounds like trouble lol.

I have just ordered a double breeding trap/hospital to prepare for all eventualities;-)


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

After reading the disease & emergency section, I think a better hospital tank would be a glass vase with a chip in it or an large tupperware food type container. 

That way if the fish has something really bad like TB, you can just throw it away. 

There's a lot of 1 gallon containers at those dollar stores that would work just as well.

I have various breeding cages, they're not that great. Unless you use the lid, they can jump out, but using a lid can cause them to drown if the breeder cage sinks to the bottom.

When you're treating for disease, it's better to do it outside of the main tank. 

Especially with ripped/torn fins. You don't want the injured flaring while they're trying to mend their wounds.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

This is what i bought.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120931492...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_560wt_1031


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I've never seen that one before. That would be a good thing to separate fish, but not ideal for treating because it's too small. 

It's designed to clip onto the side of the tank, but that doesn't always work. I have a cage like that with the clips and I can't stand the metal clips. 

I don't think it will work well for bettas because they can jump out. 

The most important thing that cage is NOT designed for bettas. 

It's designed only to hold live bearing fish like guppies, mollies & swordtails when they're about to have babies, so the fry don't get eaten by other fish. 

Now that I'm typing this out to you and think about it, I should use them on my guppies. 

I kept those things in my 10 gallon sorority as well, when they were fighting and it seemed to make things worse. 

Due to it's small size, the bettas kept in those enclosures could possibly injure themselves flailing around trying to bite the bettas they can clearly see through the transparent walls.

Those guppy breeders are not really good for treating injured bettas because the medication will leak out into the entire tank.

You could use that for holding plants & isolating 1 injured betta with frayed fins though. 

If anyone reading this disagrees with anything I mentioned, let me know.


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Cycling a tank is not this exciting. Once you see nitrates you have all the bacteria you need, unless your tap has nitrates in it. Then you need to get a baseline of your tap waters nitrate and if you see anything above this base line you are producing nitrates.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Goldy... It's only exciting if you keep disrupting the cycle by excessive WC or cleaning. 

I didn't do any during mine. I only added more dirty water and more established filter media.



[7-16-12] Filter speed cycling experiment begins on the 10 gallon. 4 filters running jammed with rinsed established media, 95 degrees F
[7-21-12] 3am - Sorority tank completed the cycle believe it or not
[7-24-12] 1st siphoning 60% WC
[8-08-12] 2nd siphoning 50% WC
(There was no ammonia/nitrites present & 1st & 2nd cleanings)


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

goldfishyman said:


> Cycling a tank is not this exciting. Once you see nitrates you have all the bacteria you need, unless your tap has nitrates in it. Then you need to get a baseline of your tap waters nitrate and if you see anything above this base line you are producing nitrates.


Cycling a tank is very exciting


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

MSG when u use dirty water.u use it from a already cycled tank?and would it work just the same if its from a fish bowl?or in my case hospital tank with 1 betta in it?

i unfortunately dont have a pare heater as of rite now.unemployed.but i mite start a job on the 20th of this month.just waiting for background check then drug test.hopefully i get it and can get a few things for my aquariums.and now a bulb in my 10 gallon went out.half my plants arent getting as much light..

i thought of using dirty water in my new cycle from my bowl and 10 gallon but wasnt sure if it would work using my fish bowl also.hmmm


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

If you're doing water changes on your betta bowl, just take the water you remove and place it in the tank you're trying to cycle.

Your tank is already done cycling so you shouldn't be asking questions like this anymore.

About your light... Just grab a desk lamp and put a piece of glass over the top of the aquarium. 

Was it a fluorescent fixture or screw in bulb one?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im going to cycle another tank..thats y i asked...

its a screw in incandescent light bulb..i son want to get a florescent for 1 side to have different lighting in it.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Oh I wouldn't use the water from a hospital tank that contains medications. 

What size tank are you planning to cycle? We should have a race.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

its not being used as a hospital tank.i just have my female betta in it for now until i can cycle her tank.since i just completed my males tank.i moved my female from the bowl to the 1 gallon hospital.now its time for her tank to be cycled 

its a 20 gallon hex tank.i still dont have substrate for it or anything.just a couple decor and a filter i havent finished making yet.im keeping an eye on my male since he i in the 10 gallon with the rosy red minnows.

when r u going to cycle ur tank?we could race.i also dont have a heater for it rite now


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I'm ready anytime for a 20G cycle. Keep in mind I will be using every available filter in my collection that I've NEVER used before. The one I like the most will stay. The rest I'll give away. 

I was going to buy a 50lb bag of pool filter sand yesterday, but got to the store kinda late. 

Tried to dig out a oak tree sapling assumed it would take about 10-15 minutes, but didn't realize the root system is 4 feet deep, so I decided I'm going to hike in the woods instead to get my stockpile of leaves. 

The remaining oak leaves left on the branch, look like they've got mildew or something on it, so I'm not using them.

Just noticed the radiation green guppy was nipping Akoya fins last night. Mr Nips is in the breeding cage now. He's had 3 months and still no new guppies. Maybe they got sucked up by the AquaClear 150. 

There's 4 females in there & 1 Yellow/Orange Cobra Male 

Black, Blue, Orange & Yellow. 


Now that I think about it. The guppies cost me a total of $6 too.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i want to get sand.its like 5 bucks here for play sand.i told my dad,he was interested.he likes the more natural look.

what r the oak leaves for?

i would think even if some had gotten sucked up in the filter.there would still be some left.

i like guppies but since im just starting out again after a long period into aquariums.i didnt wana tak the chance of buying anything else.but maybe im ready 

6 dollars isnt bad at all for several guppies


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> what r the oak leaves for?


They act like IAL and Banana Leaves. They have beneficial properties that can seep into the water and give off anti fungal properties and help with stress. It really helps with sickness, too.


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

50lb bag of pool filter sand is $8-$13

PFS, doesn't clump up like the playsand & doesn't require a ton of rinsing. 

Oak leaves are used for the the injured bettas to speed their recovery. 

Indian almond leaves aka IAL are what everyone recommends, but since I can't cook with them, I prefer not to use them. 

Oak is common around here & the barrels made out of oak wood is used to age wine, that's good enough for me. 

Leaves in my filter? I don't have a swimming pool. I have a neighbor who had a oak tree grow in a unwanted location from a single acorn. I just happened to meet her a couple days before they're moving. The moving truck showed up this morning @ 7am. I don't feel like lugging a pick ax in the back of the car to make another failed attempt to remove the tree. 

I don't want to leave a giant hole where that tree was growing for the new homeowners who are closing on the place tomorrow. 

My instincts tell me to let it go. If the tree roots are already 4 feet deep like my arborist buddy was telling me, I don't think it's a good idea to bring it home.


Here's a couple links to IAL & the person where most betta folks get their leaves from. After reading the bio & the info of the ebay seller, ALim.... I would probably buy from her if you're ever in the market for them. 


http://www.indianalmondleaves.com/aquariums.php
http://reviews.ebay.com/What-to-look-out-for-when-buying-Indian-Almond-Leaves?ugid=10000000003828138


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> They act like IAL and Banana Leaves. They have beneficial properties that can seep into the water and give off anti fungal properties and help with stress. It really helps with sickness, too.


wow really?i didnt know that.and i just noticed i have what looks like green algae on 1 of my plants....awwwwwwww!!!!!!!!

now i need to figure out where i can get some oak leaves here.i can get cactus easily  maybe i can check out some apartment complexes here and see if they have oak trees.

do u have to do anything to them before putting them in the tank?like cleaning and how?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i wonder if i can get IAL from a local store here.like a food mart.we have an indian store and restaurant nearby.and several asian stores i go too.my step mom is asian as well as my soon to be wife..so i do a lot of shopping there.i need to look again when i go..

i didnt know play sand would clump up.im glad i didnt get any while i was out at home depot earlier.though pool sand is a little more than i can afford.i have 4 bucks to my name.but i need it to start my tank.i have no substrate and dont want to add it after its all setup.

oh doe sand lower the ph?i dont think pool sand does but wasnt sure.

i would say grow a tree from an acorn.but they take years to grow.and for the roots.u can cut them smaller.as long as u have a main big root and a few small one u r fine.but i would make sure u can with ur Arborist buddy.

i took agricultural science for 3 years and have had garden and even small fruit trees when i use to live in baton rouge lousiana.but not here.i have a few small plants only.but its so hot they r dying..

i do need to check into the leaves though.1 of my girls has brown on her fins.mainly her bottom gin.i forgot what its called.she is happy and energetic.but i cant seem to get it to go away.though it seems to go away a little.hmmm


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I would rather go leaf hunting than resort to acquiring leaves through a grocery store. Stuff in the stores generally are treated with pesticides. 

Any type of hardwood tree leaves works, but oak was the name everyone recommended. 

I used green oak leaves yesterday & it's definitely NOT as effective as the dried ones for treating injuries. 

There's got to be some sort of national park or something near you. 

Google is your friend.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im glad u mentioned about the pesticides..i need to wait for it to cool down before i go hunting for any..its our hottest month.temperatures during the day are around 112 degrees..

all the national parks are far.i actually live near an airport so im in the middle of a city.there are some small city parks around here.but too far to walk in thi heat rite now.

im on google 24/7 every body come to me for computer help.i always say google it.it how i know so much about computers now.i got to the point where i charge people..ive google mapped this place a lot.i know of some places that have built in fish ponds.i thought of going there to see if i can find any plants to throw in my tank..


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thought i would update.

Cories are still all doing well, added my four female bettas yeterday..little bit of chasing but nothing major.Only thing is they pick up and swim off with the cories wafers.

Bought three more bettas today and they are in qt in the biorb,planning on having 9 bettas so gotta get 2 more..but really want to add all five new ones at the same time as my tank wont really allow for much rearrangement.

Only thing is i was looking for a different colour betta but our shops only sell the same kinda colours.

Overall im happy with how its going(touch wood).


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

its good they are getting along.had about the same results with my male betta and my rosy red minnows  im hoping to get another betta here soon.a double tail...u can try other pet shops or in local adds there for different colors.good news things worked out


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

I would ask the employees if they EVER get any special colored ones. Every spawn, there's bound to be a couple really unique looking bettas, but you have to show up when the fish first arrive, or someone else who knows the routine will get that choice one. 

Two hours before noon, I stopped by my local FS & watched them unwrap a dozen shipping boxes stuffed with fish & plants. They ONLY received 6 female bettas today, all looked really healthy, but nothing out of the ordinary. 

They also allowed me to pick through their new shipment of plants too, nothing extraordinary either.

I got to browse their medicines and didn't need anything. 

I gladly left empty handed. 

I may drop in the store tomorrow because they get their accessories/decorations on Tuesdays.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i need to see when my store brings in the new shipments.i was told before when they get the bettas in.but already forgot.i think on a wensday or friday for me though.

but i agree with MSG..even i come across some different colored one if i get there in time.normally i see white/red or just red females.but i was able to get a blue and then a red/blue.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

I did ask and was told they are all pretty much always the same..i looked on ebay but wont pay over the top for delivery..not many pet shops here that sell fish..basically just the two,there was one that i took a fancy to but decided not as she looked more like a young he(long fins and aggresive).
No local breeders either:|


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i wanted to get some off ebay.but seeing the price and locations.im like never mind.ill shop locally.maybe even breed some myself..

u should breed some fairy..that way u could sell them.and get different colors.though they are the same color.theres bound to be some that wont all be the same in a batch.i have a few pet stores here.well fish shops.some are very far.1 fish tore and 2 LPS are in walking distance of me.but its just too hot rite now to be walking.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Its me again with a quick question.

I have just bought some API leaf zone for my plants and it says to add 5ml for every 10 gallons,so do i just pour it in the tank? and wont it affect the fish in any way?


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

it should be fine.i looked online and didnt see anyone say anything negative about it.as long as the directions are followed as well as reading any warnings it may have on there.but i also read people dont use it constantly as it can be expensive.


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok so i have succumbed and bought two females from ebay(the lady did only charge one postage)they should be here Tuesday..added a pic of each.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

the picture of the red and white 1 is the common ones i had here for a while..but now after looking yesterday,they have more of a variety.i like how the other 1 looks to have yellow fins..i like those colors..great choices


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## fairy74 (Jun 10, 2012)

Never seen a red and white in our shops, its nice to have a bit of variety to my tank now. Fingers crossed they will all be great buddys lol.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im sure if i go on the other side of town i would fine something different..i had 3 of the red and white,,they all got along very well.there is always that chance they wont get along.but out of all mine.only 1 didnt.the rest were happy together


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