# First non betta tank! a bit scared..



## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I bought a second hand generous 2 foot sized tank that was previously being used for guppies and I'm slowly getting fish for it. 
So far I have 3 guppies, two flame red dwarf gourami and just a standard birstlenose. 
I'm looking at getting two or three bumble bee gobys and a peppermint bristlenose and a couple more guppies.

I'm very scared since this is my first tank keeping fish other than bettas! not to mention it's a large tank with a few different types of fish, I hope nothing goes wrong. I assumed the tank wouldn't take long to cycle since I bought the tank with sand in it already as well as some live plants and there was a bit of water already in it too, I also put the same filter in for whole day but I have since but a new one in the filter was really not suited for that size tank at all, and then I put the fish in. It has the same heater and same tank decorations, I put ammolock in the tank along with some seachem stabilizer and stress coat. fingers crossed.

So if anyone had any tips, tricks or advice for any of the fish I mentioned I would love some info! 

I'll get some photos of the tank soon!


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## hgual22 (Jul 18, 2014)

Its probably not cycled. Buy a test kit and cycle it before anything else. The bb live in the filter, and if the cycled filter was only on there a day, it wasnt enough time. It needs to be left o for at least a month.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh no /: I've got an ammonia kit and so far ammonia is 0


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Hi. :wave:

As a heads up, you don't really want to put bumblebee gobies in a tank with guppies, it's asking for constant fin nipping. Bumblebee gobies are very territorial, not just to eachother but other fish as well. I had mine in a brackish tank with Mollies fine, but any flowing fins like guppies attracts the bees attention and they will chase and nip - sometimes they think it's food, sometimes they're just being jerks. They have a lot of attitude for tiny little fish. 

As far as your tank goes, you really need to calm down on the stocking and as has been said, you need to leave it for at least a month now. You've already well overstocked it for an uncycled tank - I reckon it's going to be closer to the two month mark. I would have stuck with the three guppies to cycle it to be honest.

I believe your ammonia is reading zero because of the ammo lock (someone else can feel free to correct there, I personally don't use it) but you really need to be testing for more than this. Ammonia, Nitrite and Ph are the bare minimum, although a nitrate test will tell you when it's cycled well. If you can't afford it, take a sample of your tank water to your nearest fish shop and they should test it for you, for a small charge.

Good Luck!

- Bess :grin:


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## hgual22 (Jul 18, 2014)

When I cycled my tank, the ammonia was at zero very fast, it was the nitrite that was off the charts for almost a month, and then it finally went down to zero, and was cycled. Ammonia isnt the only indicator in cycling. 

To cycle with the guppies, change the water every other day, adding prime or ammolock, and just leave everything be for a month, then test ammonia and nitrite. Or you could get tetra safestart, ive hear good things and it helped me fishless cycle quicker.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Oh no, I didn't know and I looked up about them and it said they were peaceful, I bought them at the same time as some guppies and the pet shop guy didn't say anything  I feel awful now, but I have noticed the guppies just stay up the top and the gobys are down the bottom.

I didn't plan on adding anymore fish just getting the tank cycled safely, I add stability by seachem which is meant to get it to cycle fast and safely with preventing "new tank syndrome", I also add stress coat and ammolock. 
Ammolock doesn't effect the ammonia reading because I use it in my betta tanks and still get a .25 ammonia reading, I had a zero ammonia reading for the first two days of the 2 ft tank being set up and I tested it yesterday and I had an ammonia reading of nearly 4, so I did water change of a bit over half the tank, so ammolock doesn't effect readings


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I'm buying another test kit set today for nitrite and nitrate  and I'll be doing another water change


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Oh dear, you already bought the Gobies at the same time as the guppies? I thought you said in your original post you only had guppies, gourami's and a bristlenose in there, but were planning on getting the gobies along with more guppies and a peppermint bristlenose? :-?

I'm not sure which source told you they are peaceful, but they are very nippy, and territorial with their own species. 4ppm is far too high and going to cause some losses, if not immediately, taking an effect over a period of several days. How many gobies do you have in there now?

Cut the amount you're feeding by half for now. Daily water changes and some biological supplement is about all you can do right now, unless you take some of the fish back to the store, explaining your situation and that you want what's best for the fish. You're in for a tough ride hon.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes because I'd posted this thread a few days ago now and no one replied and told me anything, so I assumed it'd have been okay, I also went with my friend who has 9 bettas, a community tank, a gold fish tank and an African tank I think it was. 

I have 3 gobys, and they usually hide away in the live plants and near the drift wood I have. 

I might have to take them back I think, ah going to sound stupid, what's biological supplement? I have a friend who has suggested amguard by seachem that removes ammonia and she suggested filter media that removes ammonia are any of these options a good idea?


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

In honesty I think it's your best bet to take some back. The tank has a huge bioload for only being a few days old.

So you also got more guppies when you bought the gobies? What fish in total do you have now? I could help recommend what to take back if that's what you decide to do. 

The Gobies will be hiding as A) You only got them in the last day or so I believe? and B) Because they will be stressed from any nitrites if they are present. 

I'd stick with ammolock as members seem to have success with this. A biological supplement is good bacteria that will grow in your filter which feeds off ammonia and nitrites (thus a cycled tank), but for a new tank that usually takes 4-8 weeks, so you desperately need a boost of those bacteria right now. There's a gazillion different brands, all pretty much do the same job to be honest, and I don't use it as I cycle my tanks with seeded media from other tanks.


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

I don't recommend buying something that will remove the ammonia, as your filter bacteria need ammonia to feed off in order to establish. Remove the ammonia = no bacteria.

Stick with the ammolock and get yourself a good biological supplement and double or even triple dose (perfectly safe, in the times I have used it years ago). I would also reduce the stock, half your feeding and keep up with water changes. Good Luck hon.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I have 3 dwarf gourami, 8 guppies, 3 gobys and 1 bristle nose. 

They don't really hide as such, I see them all over the tank at different times but mainly near the drift wood. I'll post a photo of the tank. 

So if I go to the pet store what should I ask for? keep in mind I live in Aus should I just go and look for something that says biological supplement?


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I have a filter that does 1480L an hour so I don't know if that's going to help anything


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

http://www.petbarn.com.au/fish
This is the pet store I will be going to ^ perhaps if you could go to the site and have a look at the aquarium treatments and suggest some things for me to get? I am going there after I have finished work today


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I bought some test strips, and these were the readings, (excuse the feet lol) all are pretty much 0 except PH and Nitrates seem to be at 20. my ammonia is still high at about 4 so I am doing another tank clean today, I also added stress zyme which to me sounded good; 
STRESS ZYME adds beneficial bacteria to break down and consume organic matter to help keep the aquarium clean. The bacteria in STRESS ZYME is uniquely suited to consume aquarium sludge, and keep the gravel clean. Contains over 300 million live bacteria per teaspoonful. Breaks down organic compounds that cause dangerous conditions such as ammonia and nitrite poisoning and low oxygen levels. These bacteria improve the development of the biological filter and help clean a dirty aquarium.

I also bought some weird rocks in a bag that your meant to put in your filter to remove nitrite and ammonia, but one was too big so I have placed it near an air stone, the other is the same and I've managed to get it into my filter I'm not 100% sure if these are a good idea, but they can always be removed


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Okay,

the bumblebee gobies (particularly the one on the left of the last picture) have stress colouration - you see how he's very faded compared to the other? They do this when stressed (literally anything from the stress of being netted/bagged up, transport to your tank, settling in, temperature change or poor water quality - they are a very good indicator fish!) and it gives you an indication of who to keep an eye on. The Gobies are less likely to tolerate poor water conditions than the rest. That being said, from the pics you've put up, no one looks too bad or too effected by the water conditions just yet, other than the Goby - so that's a good thing.

From what I can see of your test strip results your KH is 0, your GH is a little above 0 (maybe around 10), nitrite 0 and Ph 6.0. Is your Ph really 6.0? That's quite low for most of the fish you've got. Do you guys in Aus have naturally soft acidic water? I notice on the website you provided they have lots of buffering products. Guppies tend to prefer something around neutral or higher, but they do adjust. As far as the Gobies, they actually swim between strong brackish and freshwater, so they tend to prefer much harder water with a higher Ph (salt in the water raises GH, KH and Ph) so how they're going to do long term in your setup I'm not sure. The Gobies once settled are very active and will use all of the tank, they will stick to the glass high up, low, everywhere. Once they are settled is when the nippy/territorial behaviour comes out. For the sake of your guppies and the gobies preferring different water conditions I honestly recommend taking them back but that is up to you. If you want to keep them, you'll need to break up line of sight a little more with plants and décor. Bare in mind if they start nipping over the next few weeks while your tank is still cycling, this will open your guppies fins up to bacterial infections and finrot etc due to the unstable water conditions so do keep a good eye on them as you don't want more problems than you'll already have!

I've had a look at the site you linked to, and the only thing I can see that store carries is Seachem Stability, which I believe you already have? It's a bit limited choice! I've had a look at the product and it says there's no danger of overuse (didn't think there would be) so if it were me, I'd be overdosing this product for the first week. It says to dose 1 capful to 40 litres on the first day, then one capful per 80 litres for 7 days. I'd test your ammonia today, dose 3 capfuls and test your ammonia tomorrow. If the ammonia has come down some tomorrow, dose a couple of capfuls a day for 2/3 days, then if it continues to come down and you see a reading of nitrite, do the capful for the rest of the time until results are normal.

If you have a cycled filter running on another tank, you can just take a bit of the media out of that filter (a bit of sponge or whatever) and squish it into this tanks filter to seed it, and that will help a lot. If you don't, give the store a ring and ask if you can purchase a small amount of their mature media on their tanks. This really will help immensely. As far as the filters turnover, it's not going to help whatsoever in the cycling process no, only good bacteria can do that and the problem is you have none. 

I'm not too up on gourami's in truth, so perhaps someone can help a little better here but I'm thinking 3 in a 2 foot tank may be a problem? Hopefully someone can confirm/correct.

I hope all this helps!


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

For some reason I thought you had Seachem stability, but if it's api stress zyme you have, try that. Couple of capfuls a day should be fine.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

I noticed one goby looked really sickly when I got him and it's that one in the picture, they do often stick to the tank glass, I think the PH reading is possibly a bit off as I had made it to about 7 so I will fix that I was told at the pet shop that they like higher PH 

I did have intensions of getting more live plants this weekend I just thought I'd leave the tank alone for now that was all. I could take some filter media from one of my cycled betta tanks? 
If I over dose the stability it's going to make the ammonia high because stability is just bacteria? 
I have stress zyme and stability as well as ammonia and nitrite stabilizing filter media. 
As for the gourami they are dwarf, they are tiny and I was told 3 to 4 would be okay for an over sized 2 ft so I don't know /:


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

They won't grow much bigger than they are now, they are about 5cm and that's being generous with size, the tank is about 70 liters


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## hgual22 (Jul 18, 2014)

Whats your male/female ratio for the dwarf gourami? They can become aggressive to each other unless you have a male with 2 females. But in a 2 foot tank, thats still not much space at all and aggression may happen anyways. 

They get to be about 2-3 inches full grown. So your going to be very tight on space.

Hopefully if you keep doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia at safer levels your tank will eventually cycle. At 4ppm though, your most likely going to lose some fish.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Maybe your fish are different over there but these ones will only grow to 2 inches max. And females aren't really available at our pet shops. Aggression won't be bad as long as there are no females. If you have both then you need a good ratio but if you have only males it will be fine, not to mention these fish have grown up together already in the pet shop..


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

http://aquariumfishparadise.com.au/Bumblebee-Goby.php


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## Bessie (Sep 13, 2014)

Bit confused why you've posted an extremely basic Bumblebee Goby caresheet, JessikaSky?


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Because that's where I got my information from about the gobys, I also got info from this site too http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+954+978&pcatid=978 where it states how they are a brackish fish, and can do okay in a community setting. I've also been feeding them a frozen mix of blood worms, daphnia and shrimp. I've highered the PH to 7.

The ammonia is coming down and I have actually had no more fish deaths. I am doing about half tank water changes every 2 days.


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Oddball, Bumblebee Goby.htm 
http://www.coburgaquarium.com.au/sheet.php?id=1229

these two sites say to add salt. I can do this as I have AQ salt? I found a bubble nest the other night and watch two of my gouramis go under it and what looked like to me that they were both building the nest together


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## JessikaSky (Sep 6, 2014)

Bleh that should say "And I watched two of my gourami go under it and do what looked like to me was them working together building the nest "


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