# next spawn want your opinion on a pair to use :D



## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

Okay soooo I have only 2 young males

Mr. Sunny who is a halfmoon white betta, I spawned him once already but I only had one fry survive. But I know he and his mate are a good spawning pair.









OR I have Paul jr...(lol after my bf) who is a red double tail male. I have not attempted to breed him before. I have a few halfmoon females that are young I could choose from.









So do you think I should try my first pair again or my other male? I was leaning towards spawning my first pair again but if I do, does anyone know if white is a dominant color? My fry looks like the dad. The mom is pinkish in color with some other pastels mixed in.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

I think I would put your white male into the pastel category rather than opaque white since he doesn't have that kind of powdery appearance I would associate with opaques. If you have a pastel HM lady, that would be the better choice between the two.

The DT looks to me like a DTVT to me, so you'd very likely just end up with a lot of regular veils with DT geno. You wouldn't see any DTs unless the female happened to be DT geno. I wouldn't breed him because the babies would be hard to place.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

Adastra said:


> I think I would put your white male into the pastel category rather than opaque white since he doesn't have that kind of powdery appearance I would associate with opaques. If you have a pastel HM lady, that would be the better choice between the two.
> 
> The DT looks to me like a DTVT to me, so you'd very likely just end up with a lot of regular veils with DT geno. You wouldn't see any DTs unless the female happened to be DT geno. I wouldn't breed him because the babies would be hard to place.


Thanks for your opinion I think you are right I don't have any female quite the same as my pastel male, she is just really light bodied with a bit of color. I have been searching though. 

Yea as for the DBT I was hoping to breed the F2s for more doubles but if you think they would just be like all red veil tails for F1s then yea I see your point. 

OK I will stick with the pair I already know  Thanks a bunch!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

I'd stick with Sunny too. If I were buying a fry I'd want one like him.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

oh okay  I shall stick with him!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

If I'm not mistaken, Sunny is a metalic. So that would make him a platinum. If so, and you want to preserve the metalic color, thus you should breed him to another metalic (green, gold, copper, etc). I would not advise just any light color.You could read this:
www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABselectivebreeding.htm

For the double tail, you should get another DT female. Or if you plan to make a line of your own, you could try with a HM. But keep in mind that you would get many uneven lobed DT, VT, or even RT. Very few to none will be HM or DT.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

indjo said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Sunny is a metalic. So that would make him a platinum. If so, and you want to preserve the metalic color, thus you should breed him to another metalic (green, gold, copper, etc). I would not advise just any light color.You could read this:
> www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABselectivebreeding.htm
> 
> For the double tail, you should get another DT female. Or if you plan to make a line of your own, you could try with a HM. But keep in mind that you would get many uneven lobed DT, VT, or even RT. Very few to none will be HM or DT.


oooo okay I was wondering because he is all shimmery, well I have another female that is blackish grey and has the same sheen as him? would that pair be okay would you think?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes, you should get metalics. But keep in mind that F1 will be dark colored. Inbreed F1 to the dad (if possible) then you should at least get a stronger platinum gene/pheno (?)...... 

I am trying the same, breeding platinum and gold (dragon) to copper females. So far I only reached F1, which are all dark copper. I think I've failed on the F2.... I don't see any fry. Perhaps they were too young (about 4 months)


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

indjo said:


> Yes, you should get metalics. But keep in mind that F1 will be dark colored. Inbreed F1 to the dad (if possible) then you should at least get a stronger platinum gene/pheno (?)......
> 
> I am trying the same, breeding platinum and gold (dragon) to copper females. So far I only reached F1, which are all dark copper. I think I've failed on the F2.... I don't see any fry. Perhaps they were too young (about 4 months)


Oh wow okay! Well I could try I find the dark platinum males to be quite beautiful so it would be cool to get some of those as a result. Do you know how to spread this to other colors? Like if I wanted to get some greens or blue platinums?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That is close to impossible, so I wouldn't even try it. I don't exactly know how to explain it, but green usually don't mix with platinum. The platinum or other light colored metalics only get the green's metalic. Perhaps you could try introducing green marbles. I don't really know because I haven't tried. I would only advise something I personally have experienced.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

JamieTron said:


> Like if I wanted to get some greens or blue platinums?


wait on.... have I misunderstood you? .... What do you exactly mean by green or blue platinum?


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

oh sorry, metallic colors rather. Like if you got a good line going with a white and copper could you later introduce color variations to get metallics that are not dark or white? Or does is something that will just ruin the work done in the previous spawns? 

lol I was just curious I don't know very much about the color genetics of a betta ;-)


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Green carries the basic metalic color..... iridescent (?) .... while blue, also a top layer color isn't metalic. You cannot find a true royal blue metalic. Metalics that have been produced are (to my knowledge) green, copper, platinum and gold. 

I suppose you can mix metalics to other colors but I would not advise it. By working with copper, platinum, and gold you should get bicolors. you would at least get copper with red fins. And I've seen golden coppers and golden red metalics. But I think they are still rare.
I wouldn't mix them with other colors than green butterfly or marble. That way you get a new variation but still maintain the metalic. 

I too, am still trying to understand how genetics actually work. SO let's learn by comparing experiences.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

View attachment 15593
View attachment 15594
View attachment 15595
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These are some variations I came up with.

View attachment 15596
View attachment 15597

This is mom and dad














I plan to inbreed siblings and cross breed to these

Tail type is not my concern at this point because I can't get a gold dragon HM. I plan to get a fixed color, then work on tail type.

I hope this will give you a better idea.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

Oh okay thanks so much for your help, I really want to try to get my own special line of some sort (someday) this information is really helped and I appreciate greatly. 

I could only see two of your photos (it won't let me view some of the attachments), but your fish are very beautiful! Your photos are getting me much more excited for my next spawn.

Oh!! I want to show you the little guy I have now (only one survived, I think I made a mistake in rearing this was my first spawn). Not sure if he retained the platinum, it kind of looks like he did. I suppose it is hard to say.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Awww, how cute!


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

dramaqueen said:


> Awww, how cute!


Thanks Drama :-D I have affectionately called he or she beastly for now lol cause it was always the largest fry compared to the others.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm reposting the pictures.

These are the results that I got. Actually there is one more variation but he's in the breeding bucket so I can't get a picture. Notice that the first guy has marble and sort of butterfly. I didn't do this on purpose. My line had those genes. I'm trying to show you that you'll get a variety of colors with only two colors.


























This is mom and dad. Well the female was this color but this is actually a cousin or something. (I lost almost everything last month)














Sorry about the bad pictures. I hope they're clear enough for you to get an idea. Btw your fry looks great and seems to be metalic.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

wow they are all awesome!!! I love the marble one lol I am a sucker for marbles :-D so cool!!! We should keep in touch with our results in future spawns :-D


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sure thing.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Lately my spawns haven't been producing anything. This is my second month of failures. pH and temp, are good (I don't check anything else). I don't understand why when I neglected the spawn, they survive but when I give them full attention, they die.

So I'm not sure when I can show you F2 and F1 x gold/platinum. But I will post them for you when/if I succeed.


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## JamieTron (May 16, 2009)

I am sure you will figure it out, maybe don;t give them your full attention again? see if that works? I wonder why that happened. Good luck!!!


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