# High PH/Alkalinity Problem- Need advice



## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

So, I hadn't tested my water in awhile, and decided I needed to because I am getting a new betta in about a week from AB, and I want her transition to be as smooth as possible- seeing as how she is coming from Thailand, and I do not want to kill her during acclimation.

Problem... The tank I was going to put her in (a 10 gallon) has 5 other small fish who are acting a bit "draggy"... so I got a test strip.

My PH is 8.4 and my Alkalinity is 300 (high). The water is soft at 75. I use treated tap water. I tested plain tap water, and it is the same PH and hardness, so I know this is just the way my tap water is.

Then, I tested bottled water (Poland Spring) and it seems to be within the recommended range for bettas for all the parameters. The PH is neutral 6.8 and the Alkalinity is low 40. The water is very soft at 0. 

So, I was thinking of just using bottled water for her. She will be in a 3 gallon tank for now, until I can figure this out. 

And my other poor fish are living with high PH, so I need to lower it but PH Down has not worked for me in the past (perhaps due to the high alkalinity) but I could not find how to change the alkalinity on google. It is not due to overfeeding, lack of water changes, or overstocking because it is just how my water naturally is. 

Can anyone advise me if you think bottled water is ok for my new female on the way? It is not distilled, so should have some minerals in it, I believe.

Also, can anyone recommend how to safely and slowly change the alkalinity and PH in the water for my current tanks? 

Thanks for the help!


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Also- I read online that you can use Peat or Aquarium Pharmaceuticals tap water purifier to help adjust PH. Has anyone used either of these?


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## luluo (Apr 6, 2011)

I am certainly no expert, but when I was researching fishkeeping I came across this article:

http://www.firsttankguide.net/ph.php

It really goes into a lot of detail and is worth the time.

Others I have talked to have echoed this article and advised to not mess with the PH. A tank with a fluctuating PH will do more harm than a high/low PH. What are your other parameters? If your PH has always been high, then I think your fish would be used to that by now and that something else may be going on to cause the sluggishness. 

Regarding your new Thai betta, maybe you will just need to take more time to acclimate her. Maybe test the PH of the water she is in before adding any of your tank water to the bag.

Not sure if this would make a difference but I have seen it stated over and over again that test strips are less reliable than the liquid test kits. Before altering the PH maybe you could buy a liquid test to see if the results are any different. I've only used liquid so I have no experience with the strips.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Hmm... ok, I might try the liquid. I also read that it is better to have high PH than fluctuating PH, but my PH is so high that it worries me. If it were just a little high I would ignore it... but I feel negligent leaving it THAT high, yknow? 

I agree, my fish may be used to it, because they have seemed fine other than 1 tank, recently... but, the other problem is that the high PH causes uncontrollable brown algae blooms. I read on this site that marimo balls would prevent algae blooms so I have at least 1 in each tank, but that proved to be false because my newest tank started a brown algae bloom yesterday... alllllllover...  sigh. 

Thank you for the article, I will read it over tonight.


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## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

luluo said:


> A tank with a fluctuating PH will do more harm than a high/low PH.
> 
> If your PH has always been high, then I think your fish would be used to that by now and that something else may be going on to cause the sluggishness.
> 
> ...


+1

If you start raising or lowering your Ph with chemicals, you'll be stuck doing it for life. My waters Ph is higher than I'd like but since Harley grew up in that water, I was told not to try and adjust it. Like luluo said, just take more time in acclimating your new betta so it can get used to it slowly. Good luck!


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks Harley. I guess my current fish I will leave with high ph but the new girl I am really worried about... maybe I will fill her tank with bottled water first so she can just relax when she gets here... then, slowly add my treated tap little by little each day. But if I breed her, all the sites I've read say u have to have perfect parameters.. so I will have to get her back to a neutral ph then, or else just always have her in ph neutral water.


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## mywingedhorses (Mar 14, 2011)

I would second switching to liquid test kits. I used test strips for awhile because it was the only thing I could get at the time. I was cycling my tank and after the nitrites spiked the test strips told me the nitrates shot up almost immediately after. I decided to double check the nitrates with my API nitrate test kit. The test strips said my nitrates were around 80-100 but my liquid test kit told me that they were about 5. I finished up the few strips I had left and have only been using the liquid test kits since then.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Hmm. That's interesting. I wonder why the strips seem to be so inaccurate? :/ I will look into a liquid kit. Still, if my PH is that high, does everyone else who reads this thread agree not to mess with it?


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## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

smellsfishie said:


> Hmm. That's interesting. I wonder why the strips seem to be so inaccurate? :/ I will look into a liquid kit. Still, if my PH is that high, does everyone else who reads this thread agree not to mess with it?


I would wait to see what the treated tap water (not from your aquarium) tests at with a liquid test. It may be better than you think. You may be able to have your water tested by a LFS, at least places like Petsmart will test your water for free.


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

True. I tested my tap with the strip, but have yet to go get the liquid kit. I probably will have to buy one cause I am anal and would like to test every tank, plus my tap, plus bottled water...  Do you think Petsmart would mind if I brought in 6 water sources for sampling?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I wouldn't mess with chemically changing your pH and hardness...Bettas will adapt, spawn and fry will be fine, however, with Bettas that come from overseas you do need to do a slow acclimation to your source water chemicals

I would do a test on the water that the Betta from overseas comes in and see what kind of difference you have....

Remember to do a pH test on your source water after it has gassed out for 24hr to get a more accurate reading and compare the number between fresh drawn water and 24h de-gassed water with a liquid pH test kit....and knowing the GH/KH is also something that you need to know especially if you plan to change the pH and hardness

I use both the liquid reagent and test strips......I use test strips for a quick look and liquid reagent for accurate numbers...IMO/E the test strips are not so much inaccurate as you don't get good numbers per se...I really dislike how they are read...:safe, ideal, caution, stress...etc......understanding what these numbers/labels mean in regards to fish/water health/safety are as important as testing and knowing what to do with the results you get......

The best water testing product is one that you will use and can understand and often the very best water tester is you- the hobbyist and the power of observation....often the fish behavior will tell you that you have a problem......


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks, I feel better now about not messing with the PH. I will just test her bag water first and do a very slow transition for her.  I appreciate all the great advice!


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## gbose (Dec 2, 2010)

Harley said:


> I would wait to see what the treated tap water (not from your aquarium) tests at with a liquid test. It may be better than you think. You may be able to have your water tested by a LFS, at least places like Petsmart will test your water for free.


But I beleive they'll test it using the strips....:-(


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## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

gbose said:


> But I beleive they'll test it using the strips....:-(


Hopefully not. Mine doesn't.


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## gbose (Dec 2, 2010)

But watch to see how they do the test. My LFS uses the paper strips.....

GB


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## orphansparrow (Apr 30, 2011)

hi there. my tap water by itself has a very high ph as well. what i do is mix my treated tap water with filtered water (i have a britta pitcher that i use to filter my tap). the filtered water has a very low ph, so when i mix the two, i can get just about 7.0 ph. it's a lot cheaper than having to buy bottled water all the time too.

just a thought. ^_^


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## cajunamy (Apr 28, 2011)

I have just started using my IAL (that I use for spawning and conditioning) to also lower my tap water's ph. It went from 8.2 - 7.6. Just a thought 

Which reminds me, I need to go and order more IAL!


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

What is ial


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## Harley (Mar 20, 2011)

IAL = Indian Almond Leaves. They can be used to condition the water, color the water (to replicated their natural environment) and release tannins which help prevent and cure betta diseases.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

I would agree with OFL and what others said. Once you start messing with the water chemistry, you'll have to do it all the time and keep it as exact as possible, which can be a pain. 

Unless you're fish are dropping like flies in your water, I wouldn't be too worried. 

I had a post about water chemistry somewhere but it got buried somewhere 

@orphan and cajun: That would normally work, but OP posted that they have high alkalinity, which is the water's ability to reject easy pH swings. In your regular chemistry classes, 6pH mixed with 8pH = 7pH, normally. A high alkalinity would resist the 8pH base and the resulting pH would be something like 6.5 or 6.3, but would not end up as 7. Great ideas though! I never thought of those two things you guys mentioned would adjust the pH...

Now if only life were SIMPLE math... XD


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## orphansparrow (Apr 30, 2011)

bahamat - oh, i'm sorry, you're right. nevermind!


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

My female has arrived.  Her bag water has a neutral PH, about 7.2 (still using strips) and hard water. My tank water PH is about 8.2 and soft water. Those are the only differences, other than temp... Her bag is 82 and my tank is 78. Anyway, I've been floating her for about 1/2 hr and I am going to test her temp again in a little bit. She seems really healthy and vibrant so I think she will be ok with the transition. I am going to just take my time. The guy who shipped her to me told me to just net her and put her in fresh water.... he said that doing slow acclimation raises the nitrate or nirite level really fast so it is better, in his experience, to just not acclimate and then do frequent water changes for a few days. I don't really feel comfortable with that. So, I am just going to go slow and monitor the nitrate/nitrite level as I go... anyway that's my update.


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Just wondering, is 8.4 alkalinity OK? Hope ur fish do well!!


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## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Neil, I have no idea but I guess so. Anyway, I acclimated my fish slowly overnight and put her in the tank in the morning once the bag water tested the same as the tank water. She has been doing fine, swims happily, and does not seem stressed in the SLIGHTEST. She's super cute.


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

@NeilD: Do you mean 8.4 pH? It is on the higher end, but most fish will do okay. My water's pH is 8.2


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Ya, guess so...


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Just acclimate slowly


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

smellsfishie said:


> neil, i have no idea but i guess so. Anyway, i acclimated my fish slowly overnight and put her in the tank in the morning once the bag water tested the same as the tank water. She has been doing fine, swims happily, and does not seem stressed in the slightest. She's super cute.


where are the pictures?!? 
>_>


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