# I Have A Question?



## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok.......... so here's the dealio,

So I have a male and a female betta and I have them all set up in the beeding tank. (Male is in tub and female is in a glass vase which is in the tub. I have my foam cup and some hornwort in there also.) The female is VERY interested in breeding.(She has her vertical stripes and is constantly interested in the male and [Whats supposed to be the bubble nest]. Well the male was flaring some and was blowing a few bubbles (that wern't sticking) but now he's lost interest and is just swimming around normally. So I'm wandering if he's to young, or if he's just making silivia?? Also, is this stressing the female or male out??? Should I separate them or just leave them were they are?? btw the female is in a big enough vase to stay.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Take them out for now and try again later.
The female definitely sounds ready. But I'm not sure about the male (not enough info).
They become sexually mature in about 4 months or so and should be around 3cm. But it's best to breed after they reach 6 months/ fully grown.

Both male and female should swim in an "S" pattern. The male usually makes bubble nest (not always) and the female show vertical bars. These are the basic signs of readiness. 

A healthy male should flirt with the female for days. If he looses interest, he is either unhealthy or was just flaring to fight. 

Wait a full day or two before re-introducing them. Make sure both have been properly condition and are healthy, specially the male because he will usually fast during the whole process (about 3 - 5 days). When you introduce them, make sure both flirt in an "S" pattern. And if he, again, looses interest (not just rest but totally looses interest) separate them again (he isn't healthy enough to breed) and replace him with another male.


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks so much for the info!! I ended up leaving them in there the night and from the looks of it, the male has made a quite large bubble nest!!! He only flares a little............ha, right when I type that and look over he's flaring like crazy. lol Anyways........ I put some food in there this morning and both the male and female ate willingly. That would not be a prob. would it???? Also, how do you tell when the male is done building the nest??


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Don't use the nest as a sign. Some don't make nests while others may make gigantic ones. Besides, bubble nest will eventually pop and the male will add new bubbles so he is never done with the nest. Look how they react to one another - are they trying to bite each other or are they flirting? If you have plenty of getaways for the female, you can release her anytime. Other wise it's safer to wait for 1 - 3 days before releasing her.

Eating is not a problem. Many would often eat when they're still separated but usually (specially the male) won't eat once the female is released. And don't worry if he does. 
Just curious, what fry foods have you prepared? Make sure their ready before your pair spawns. You see, spawning them is the easy part. Rearing the fry is the real challenge.


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

I let them together and they are doing everything like usual. (male is showing off and chasing the female around) I DO have plenty of hiding places for the female.

And for the fry.........(your going to get mad at me)..........but I've heard some people have luck with just some powdered fish food. I am only planning on keeping very few of the fry just because I don't have enough room for all of them, so if not all of them survive, that will be fine.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

Baby brine shrimp.


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Egg yolks and variety of powdered flakes and pellets????


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

you do know that the babies are going to be WAY tiny and too small for pellets and flake food will need to be like DUST for them to b able to eat it, then they need to be fed like 5 times a day very very tiny amounts.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Vinegar Eels


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok, so how about this............. a POWDERED variety of fish flakes and pellets, Egg Yolks, AND some infusoria I'm cultivating???????


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

your going to mash all this up? How much do you intend on giving each feed?


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

We can adress that later............ They are actually spawning right now!! 

Ok.........well the male wrapped around the female once but was unsuccessful in getting any eggs out. From my understanding........this is natural to be take a few tries for the male. After the embrace, the female went into hiding for a little bit but is now back in the action. Does anyone know how long it will take for the next embrace??


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

...you need SMALL *LIVE* FOOD!!! I can sell you some microworms and vinegar eels.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Fry food: crushed pellets and flakes won't do as first food. Newly hatched betta's are tiny ..... how small can you crush them? Further they easily foul up the water. Egg yolk also foul up water but is better (small enough to be eaten). Infusoria and other live foods are best.

By the time you read this, the spawning should be over so I won't answer your last question.


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Actually it isn't over....... Theres been 3 embraces in the last 7 hours and none of them have been successful...... The female is darker than ever and her veritical bars can been seen very easily. She has gained allot of wieght and I can see the little white thing (don't know what it's called) on her belly. She seems fully ready to breed. The male now has a huge bubble nest and is constantly flaring and trying to lead the female to the nest. 

So the prob. is that the female just doesn't seem do want to spawn. She keeps comming to the nest and the both the male and female wiggle in the "S" shape pattern but JUST befor the male goes to embrace her...... she darts away. The male then gets mad and chases her around the tank. Then the process starts all over again..........and again.............and again.

I'm just confused because they both seem very healthy and ready to breed!! How long does it take them to start spawning after you put them together???? Is this just because the female is stubborn???? Is this natural???


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

btw I have Infusoria


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## Ethan (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd take out and recondition the pair.......... while your doing that........ (I bought a couple cultures about three weeks ago by bettadan on www.aquabid.com but that's not his real name just to let you know:lol: he is great at replying and is very polite.) Here is his website where he also sells his cultures and they're cheap www.fancyguppies.net. 

Hope I helped,
Ethan


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thank you guys for ALL the info!!!!!

Update: Bettas are almost finished spawning!!!! Eventually the female decided to spawn and now I have a nest full of eggs!!!!! 

I've decided after reading some articles that you guys are right and that "powdered flakes" are not going to work. So heres the plan: #1 Egg yolks, #2 I'm trying currently to cultivate some infusoria in a jar of letuce and water, #3 and also I was wandering if you guys know of any good "liquid fry food" that I could just order online or maybe find in LPS????? I, personally, just think that would be eaier for me..........? Also, I'm just trying to confirm that I do not need to feed the fry until they are free swimming???? (Which takes around 1 week????)


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## mand (Nov 19, 2010)

Fry need live food. My fry are 3 weeks old and still won't eat anything that doesn't move. You need to get microworms and BBS.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Congrats on your spawn.....now the fun begins......

The fry will not need any food until they absorb their yolk sac and that can very from 3-5 days-and you will have better luck with live foods...if your tank is mature and/or you have live plants and some common snails in the tank you most likely will have some infusoria in the tank for the first few days and this will give you time to get some live food going for them...

BBS are really easy to hatch and pretty fast too....any type of container will work(I use an old 1g peanut container with a hole drilled in the lid for the airline hose) that you can add an airstone-I don't use any added heat or light for mine-I do start the water out at 84-85F and put them in a dark china hutch and will have hatch within 24-28h-once they hatch start another batch....you only want to feed newly hatched BBS to the fry...the BBS need to still have their yolk sac for the most nutrition for the Betta fry and they are still small enough for week-10 day old fry to eat

Back to the Betta fry-since with some spawns it can be 1-4+ hours between eggs laid and so they will hatch that way too as well as free swimming stage....at 80F I get hatch in 24-28h and free swimming in another 2-4 days...I found that if I have the water temp too high they hatch/develop too fast and I will get weak fry that can't get themselves back to the nest and lots of fallers (I spawn in full to the top with water 10g tanks) at 80F I have very few eggs/fry that fall from the nest or need help from the male....anyway...I also leave the male longer than most and depending on the male usually you can leave them...but if the spawn is really important you may want to remove him once most of the fry are free swimming or sooner....

In bare bottom half full tanks-once you start adding food you need to start adding water daily to dilute the pollutants and hormones for best growth and development...once the tank is full then you start making at least 50% daily water changes and look for deformed and/or struggling fry and cull.

Good luck and look forward to following their growth and development and pics.....


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Gosh darnit............. maybe I spoke to soon. Well the female just decided to abandon the spawn. She still has eggs. (she still has white speck on her belly and I can see the eggs) From what I can see, there's really not that many eggs in the bubble nest. The male is taking turns flaring at the female (trying to lead her to the nest) and caring for the eggs. Is she just taking a break?????? The male is not hurting her. I'm thinking I should just leave her in there and wait for them to start spawning again???? or should I remove her??


P.S. Sorry I keep confusing you guys. :C


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

They usually are finished when the male drives the female away and will not let her return to the nest....sometimes she needs to rest and if he is still trying to flirt and lead her to the nest I would leave her for now...unless she is panting and appears too tired to go on...not worth stressing her out....make sure you have lots of places for her to get out of his line-of-sight to rest...when she is ready she will return head down....


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

thank you soooooo much. hes still flirting and there is plenty of hiding places so it should all be good.


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## Ethan (Dec 3, 2010)

How's your spawn doing?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry I didn't follow up on your thread. I thought your pair was done....
So how did the spawn go?


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Finally the spawn is done!! well........was done about 2 days ago. Anyway........the fry have Hatched!!!!!!!!!! Theres prob. about only 30, but thats all I really expect from some first timers. You were right when you said they were small!! I'm trying to convince my Mother asap to buy some microworms off of eBay. Will that work when they are this small up until they are larger???


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

hobbyboy333 said:


> Finally the spawn is done!! well........was done about 2 days ago. Anyway........the fry have Hatched!!!!!!!!!! Theres prob. about only 30, but thats all I really expect from some first timers. You were right when you said they were small!! I'm trying to convince my Mother asap to buy some microworms off of eBay. Will that work when they are this small up until they are larger???


 Only for a week or so. You should run to a fish store to get some baby brine shrimp eggs.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I double MrV, In my area, newly hatched BBS is mostly used for the first 2 weeks. So you should get and prepare them asap (other than the microworms).


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok..........well it's been ike 4 days since hatch. About a day ago, I could see 15-20 fry hanging from the nest. Now, today I don't see any fry at all???? By now I would think they would be free swimming. I do have a large piece of hornwort and other plants in the tank. Are they free swimming and I just cant see any of them???? or did the male eat them???? Should I take male out yet???


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I would take the male out and hopefully the fry are hiding out in the hornwort...they are so tiny...I bet you have more than what you think too...congrats by the way...


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

thanks! just took male out.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Did you see any fry? they can blend in really good....hard little bugger to spot especially in the first few days after they start free swimming....


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Hopefully the male didnt eat them D:


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## hobbyboy333 (Jan 17, 2011)

Havent spotted any yet. Like i said though, theres allot of plants in there.

Darn, those microworms better come in soon. Will they be ok with just thier yolk sacks and infusoria for a day or two? (if there is any)


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

hobbyboy333 said:


> Havent spotted any yet. Like i said though, theres allot of plants in there.
> 
> Darn, those microworms better come in soon. Will they be ok with just thier yolk sacks and infusoria for a day or two? (if there is any)


 You should have set up your cultures set up WEEKS before spawning. But yes they should be fine until then. You can feed them egg yolk too if you want.


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

^ this, and food might make them come out if they're still there.


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