# Breeding impatience



## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hey guys
SO, most of you know how I got the female to mate with my male Leon. anyways, I got her today in the mail and she is very very pretty. She has the white breeding dot and somewhat vertical stripes (dont really know what they are), but I know she is ready to breed. Most of you said wait a little while before I breed her, but I am getting really impatient and I want to put her in the spawning tank. She seems just as healthy as my male, and I know the seller took very good care of her and got her ready for breeding. Is it alright if I put her in the spawning tank like this weekend?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

no.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

shes just been through the stress of shipping, she may look healthy but the stripes are probably from stress. be reasonable, breeding takes a LOT out of your fish would you like to spend all the money getting her to you toss her in and have her die?
Two weeks AT YOUR PLACE for conditioning then at least three days next to each other (still seperate) before you put them together


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i know thats the minimum, i introduced her next to the tank and they are both going wild. is it safe to take her away now or is it too late.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

you can leave them or move them, id say move them (less stress) you need to think it through properly before leaping into it.other wise your just pouring your money down the drain


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i just wanted to see what they would do and they are going nuts, they really want to mate. is it too late to take her away? i just wanted to give Leon and incentive on building a bubble nest because hes been lazy and doing nothing lately. will he build his nest if i take her away? she really seems healthy, she wont die. the seller i bought it from took very good care of her before he sent. and she only spent 2 days inside a box, no big deal...


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Do you have food for the fry ready? The time to make all the waterchanges? Two days shipping isnt a big deal to you, but it is to the fish...


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

hey in the end you dont need to listen to advice from anyone you want to risk either not being ready go for it. my male flares at everything even the snails so he could just be being territorial.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

no im pretty sure he really liked that female
but i took her out because i think she was a bit stressed i guess and i figured it would be better if i had waited. i will put her in this weekend i think depending on how i think she is. im setting up the food now and it should be ready by tomorrow. hatching baby brine shrimp in an automatic feeder. hopefully i didnt depress them too much taking them out from eachother. my male really misses her and the femael is just moping around. this is better than them being so active at eachother right?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

im sorry but im not going to add anymore because i would come across as rude. good luckto your fish


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

yeah ummm, I think youre getting "they like eachother" mixed up with "They wanna kill eachother" lol
Like what Abby said "Two weeks AT YOUR PLACE for conditioning then at least three days next to each other (still seperate) before you put them together" is probably your best option...unless you want your female turned into betta food..


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

why would he kill her?


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Bettas are really aggressive. Breeding them sometimes results in death for one of the pair.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

oh i think you guys are getting mixed up. i have a glass vase inside the spawning tank. when i put the female in, my male was flaring his fins like crazy and swimming around like crazy. then he'd come up to her and flare his fins at her. its exactly what i saw in the breeding betta videos. but yeah i seperated them now and im not gonna add them for another 2 weeks or so just to make sure she is good and rested. but the way he shipped her was amazing, she had plenty of warmth and it only took 2 days. please add to your postings, i spent good money on her and i dont want her dying. but yeah, i didnt put her directly into the spawning tank like you guys thought. i had her safe in teh glass jar. they were just going really crazy because my betta has been lonely forever.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah he seemed really aggressive when he was flaring his fins, thats just because he was lonely forever. if he attacked her too hard when i released her in a few days i would definately take her out. but i dont think they would kill each other fast enough for me to not catch her.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

no if u release the female and both are not ready she could get REALLY hurt


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

^ i did that once....man was I stupid lol, female survived...barely


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i know if they arent ready and i put them together she will get really hurt. but she already has the white egg on her pelvis, and shes already standing on her head. im gonna wait til the male makes his bubble nest and release her. the seller said she is ready to breed and it does look like she is. if he hurts her too much i will definately take her out trust me.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

the white egg? dont all female bettas have that, ready to breed or not? my females right now have it... and they arent ready to breed


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

im sorry but someone has to say it. your.......i cant even bring my self to insult your intelligence.... you ASKED for advice your GETTING advice yet your just going to do your own thing anyway. what is the point of asking then going against all the advice.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

What is your breeding set up like? I think someone asked that but you may have missed that question. Also what foods do you have prepared?

In my humble opinion, I don't think your necessarily ready to breed at all. You said in your first post you didn't even know what vertical stripes on a female meant. If you don't have a basic understanding of betta body language how do you intend to know how the spawn is going? How will you know when the female is actually stressed out and when she is just exhibiting normal spawning behavior?

Also.. you seem under the impression that your male is lonely. Your male is not lonely, he does not need a "girl friend" or any other fish to be happy. All he needs is clean water and good food to be happy. If your betta is acting sluggish and seems "lonely" that could be an indicator that he is not as healthy as he should be. Bettas are incapable of feeling lonely or depressed or missing other fish. They do not have the mental faculties for those emotions.. plain and simple.


I'd like to mention also that it is perfectly fine to spawn fish within a couple days after being shipped IF they are well conditioned and not stressed. I've spawned fish soon after getting them with no trouble whatsoever. HOWEVER... in this case I don't believe you are actually ready to breed. I'd still like to hear more about your set up first.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

my setup is a 10 gallon tank with about 7-8 inches of almond leaf conditioned water. i have an almond leaf as a bubblenest maker and a few amazon sword plants for hiding, and a bunch of frogbit for the fry to hide in. i have a glass jar vase to act as the female barrier between the male. sponge filter dual sponges with an air pump. also have my baby brine shrimp auto feeder attached to the air pump to feed the fry. have a 78 tropical sun light for lighting. a few pvc pipes for the fry/female to hide in, etc.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah im stupid, i put the female in with the male because i thought she was ready. and i thought teh male wouldnt make his bubblenest until she was next to him. anyways she has torn fins and is resting near the top of the water. anything i can do?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

is this your only tank?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

no i put her in my 2.5 gallon i oringally had the male in. she is just resting at the top, what can i do? she isnt dead just really worn out.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

you need three tanks


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i knew i shouldnt have put her in there, but i thought males only make bubblnests sometimes when the female is in there.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

she didnt even breed and look at her. see shes not ready.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

How do you have an auto feeder for BBS? They have to be hatched and harvested.

You aren't ready to breed. Quite frankly I don't think you have the maturity/patience it takes yet. You can't just throw two fish together. This goes back to what I was saying about understanding some basic body language. Have you done any reading at all on breeding besides this forum because believe me, this forum is one of the last sources you should be going to for breeding information. There are numerous way more informative sites that offer real fact based articles.

Take the female out, get her in her own tank and treat her for her fins. While she is healing start doing research on betta spawning behavior and what to look for.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

when will she be ready? after 2 weeks of conditioning her? ah thank goodness, she is eating already and moving around like normal. im definately keeping her in the 2.5 gallon until i know she is ready to breed. i thought i did all the research i could. what else can i do? i am going to definately revive her until she looks healthy again before doing anything else though. im just glad she didnt die.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

personally you shouldnt breed unless you know EXACTLY what your doing, having an IDEA aint even close.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> when will she be ready? after 2 weeks of conditioning her? ah thank goodness, she is eating already and moving around like normal. im definately keeping her in the 2.5 gallon until i know she is ready to breed. i thought i did all the research i could. what else can i do? i am going to definately revive her until she looks healthy again before doing anything else though. im just glad she didnt die.



how bout dont even think about breeding her not for at LEAST 3-6 months.
by then you MAY know what your doing


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

This is why i dont breed, I have a great little sorority of 5 females ^.^ who get along happily, breeding is too much of a hassle (for me at least) i dont have the money to buy all the stuff you need PLUS the fact that there will be hundreds of crazy little fry swimmin around and you have to get cups for them which costs even MORE money!


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

yeh BeCkS ive started a collection of containers that will be big enough to house them temp in but i wont be breeding for 5 or 6 months then only one MAYBE two spawns a year


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

sheesh thats gunna be a sh*t tonne of babies x) you gunna sell them?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i have been googling and found tons of sites on the breeding, vertical stripes, white egg, puffy belly. i dont think shes full of eggs yet though, so yeah shes not ready. but she was twirling in circles when the male was flaring his fins. and she was standing on her head. and the male was kinda building his bubble nest im not sure. but i also read that the male might not build his nest until the female is released. anyways, its good i have her in her own tank now so she is safe. what else should i do?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

put off all thoughts of breeding.
BeCkS yes you can have as little as 10 and as many as 300+ per spawn

jschristian44: ARE you prepared to feed and HOUSE THIS MANY? and then FIND HOMES for them?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

as for the auto feeder, i have that brown auto feeder. you place it in the tank, attach a air line, and add eggs to it. then the baby brine shrimp swim through the hole into the tank. auto feeder.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

and yes abby that is the part i did think out.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

sounds like a waste of bbs to me


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)




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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

well what will you do with them? most local pet stores and aquariums wont take them even for free


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

she has torn fins, but luckily she isnt bleeding. maybe this was the normal fin tearing they were talking about?


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

that her? her fins are shreaded


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

Your female looks like one of mine!!


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah i know pet stores wont take them.

aquabid, ebay, craigslist

for really cheap at first, and if not, then basically free. plus i thought i could sell a few on this forum for pretty cheap. but this is way down the line. i cant even get them breeding yet. ill do another month of research before i attempt anything again. what are some good sites to look at, i thought i read them all.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

its just her back fin and her lower back fins that were shredded. they heal pretty quickly i hear though? either way shes staying in the warm 2.5 gallon i have for her until anything else goes on. she seems to be doing fine just like when i brought her home todya.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

if they dont turn out REALLY REALY good you wont have a lot of interest. i prefer to KNOW i have homes before i breed anything. plus you cant sell them till they are 3-6 months old CAN you house all these fish for that long, males need their OWN tanks


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> its just her back fin and her lower back fins that were shredded. they heal pretty quickly i hear though? either way shes staying in the warm 2.5 gallon i have for her until anything else goes on. she seems to be doing fine just like when i brought her home todya.



they will heal quick IF YOU TREAT IT correctly then the fin take a while to grow back


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah i got an indian almond leaf in there with her, etc. finding homes wont be a problem. i once had little birds and i put them for like 3 dollars a piece on craigslist and people jumped at them. i figure the same thing for these. ill even put these for like 1 dollar a piece.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

doesnt she look ready to breed in that photo? she has the white egg you can kind of see and her belly is big enough i think.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

-shakes head- birds are one thing but fish are entirely different. plus im talking a lot of fish


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't think you're quite picking up what we're putting down.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> doesnt she look ready to breed in that photo? she has the white egg you can kind of see and her belly is big enough i think.


bad photo angle but she looks over fed.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

You know that with that autofeeder your going to have to do at least one water change a day.. more like 2 a day because of the constant food being let out will foul up the water really fast.

www.bettysplendens.com
www.bettaterritory.nl
www.bettas-jimsonnier.com

All of those are excellent sources on spawning.

I'm concerned about your methods of getting rid of the fry. I can't see your pictures so I don't know of the quality of your fry but believe me. First time breeders have a really hard time finding homes for fry. Don't rely on this forum to take in your fry and definitely don't rely on aquabid unless you plan to put in the work and produce some amazing fry.

Do you know about culling? Are you prepared to do that should you get some badly deformed fry? Let me tell you the first time you have to kill a fry because it's deformed it's a really hard thing to do.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

she looks like she need to take a crap...thats what i think


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

GienahClarette i could hug you right now.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

sigh.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

she just wasnt ready to breed. i thought the vertical bars were black, but their supposed to be white.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Abby said:


> GienahClarette i could hug you right now.


Thank you!


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Do you know about culling? Are you prepared to do that should you get some badly deformed fry? Let me tell you the first time you have to kill a fry because it's deformed it's a really hard thing to do.



:shock: wh-wh-what!?!?!?!


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

this is what she should look like








http://www.flippersandfins.net/Images/BettaMGFemaleMale.JPG

taken from this site:
http://www.flippersandfins.net/BettaBreedingArticle.htm#introducing


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)




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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Do you know about culling? Are you prepared to do that should you get some badly deformed fry? Let me tell you the first time you have to kill a fry because it's deformed it's a really hard thing to do.


ok i need to know and i havent asked for fear of being insensitive but one does need to know what do you actually do to euthanize the deformed fish?


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Abby said:


> ok i need to know and i havent asked for fear of being insensitive but one does need to know what do you actually do to euthanize the deformed fish?


I hear they use clove oil, but not 100% on that.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Clove oil sounds right. That's how I had to put down a very sick and sad fish, once.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

bettafish15 said:


> I hear they use clove oil, but not 100% on that.



....How i mean? my bf suggested several things that i almost cried at to put a fish out of his or her pain


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

My hearts broken? yeupp


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

There's different methods. The most popular being feeding them to larger fish. It sounds horrible but in actuality it's one of the fastest most painless deaths. Some may use clove oil but it's really expensive so I don't think many breeders will do that.

There are other methods that I'm not going to go into here because it will just start an argument. You can PM me if you would like to know about more methods of culling.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

i just read that clove oil knocks out the fish and then you kill it..


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

You put the clove oil in the quarantine tank water.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

I know this is gunna sound awful but usually...dont people just flush the fish?


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

BeCkS said:


> I know this is gunna sound awful but usually...dont people just flush the fish?


That makes for a very painful death and should never be done unless your certain a fish is completely dead.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Flushing is one of the MOST inhumane ways to kill fish. They don't die from being flushed and are forced to go through pipe systems breathing in sewer water until eventually they suffocate and die. They most likely are also severely burned and injured by all the chemicals people put down their drains.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

People do but they shouldn't flush fish not only is it a painful death, and inhumane sometimes they can get into the natural ecosystem and really screw it up


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

I only flush a fish when theyre dead, i havent flushed a live fish dont worry lol


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I usually cull my fry by feeding them to larger fish that is if I get to many I tend to use more natural methods and try to not interfeer I usually have quite a die out but stronger fry.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Flushing is one of the MOST inhumane ways to kill fish. They don't die from being flushed and are forced to go through pipe systems breathing in sewer water until eventually they suffocate and die. They most likely are also severely burned and injured by all the chemicals people put down their drains.


I never thought of what actually happened when they went down the toilet...remember parents they always say "They go out into the ocean" haha WHAT A LOAD OF MALARKEY!


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

and if the fish has some sort of diease it can get into the water and where ever that goes


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

they said it goes to the ocean because its creative and thats where fish belong. they just say that to kids because it sounds 200 times better than saying, well it gets sucked up into the drainage system then released into the sewer.


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

i know, id be crushed if i knew that when i was little lmfaoo


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

Abby said:


> im sorry but im not going to add anymore because i would come across as rude. good luckto your fish


This ^^ and I only read the first two pages. Based on the exchanges, it's pretty obvious the OP is gonna do what he wants. No idea why he even bothered to start this thread. :|


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

scootshoot said:


> This ^^ and I only read the first two pages. Based on the exchanges, it's pretty obvious the OP is gonna do what he wants. No idea why he even bothered to start this thread. :|



this does indeed excuse the language...but it sets me off people ask for advice then dont get the "yes do it your way" they get the craps and do it their own way anyway


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ok, I can't count how many times I facepalmed while reading this thread. People who refuse to take advice shouldn't even ask for it.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Guys I have spawned fish upon arrival before...I know many breeders who do it.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I think the point was more that the OP did not seem...to have the best interests of his fish in mind. And from what I read, he seemed like he didn't do enough research.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Holy shniz...just read whole thread........he'll do what he wants no matter what we say.......1fish2fish who does this remind you off? hehe.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

im going to listen to you guys because your the pros, im not near a pro. ive been reading and it seems that the male wont build his nest because the female doesnt show vertical stripes yet. but then i read that MOST males dont build the nest until they spawn. ive read that almost everywhere now not to rely on the bubblenest to make sure they are ready. it seems to me that when the female shows stripes i should release her no matter if the male built his nest or not. but im never gonna introduce them again until i know she is ready, i want her to live.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

no no no.
No point releasing her if he has NO nest to care for the babies in -face palm-
im about to upload a pic...my males never seen a female and this what he turns out:


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

^that pic was about two weeks ago these two are mre recent both made from scratch after water changes:


















And dastan has not seen a female.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

gah sorry they are so big ive not got time to edit them


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## BeCkS (Jan 19, 2011)

awww what a cute little bubble nest


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah my male built nests just like that before i introduced her to him. he just wont build one right now because hes too attracted to the female.


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

MrVampire181 said:


> Guys I have spawned fish upon arrival before...I know many breeders who do it.



ah but MrVampire im sure you KNEW what you were doing to begin with this member clearly needs a little more research


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> yeah my male built nests just like that before i introduced her to him. he just wont build one right now because hes too attracted to the female.


more like being too territorial and tanks BeCkS oh im off to that shop very soon BeCkS ill let you know what i find when i get home.....-waddles off to get ready-


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> he just wont build one right now because hes *too attracted to the female*.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

check it
http://www.flippersandfins.net/Images/BettaFemaleBars.JPG


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

GienahClarette said:


>


 LMAO. Star Trek FTW.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Try reading my site (in signature) and see how much WORK I do everyday. Fish stuff + Trying to get/maintain a B average in school is not easy...I stay up late all the time doing homework and water changes.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Reading this thread I'm just like


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

@bettafish15, that made me laugh SO HARD! Thank you!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Breeding bars are NOT a good indicator of when to release the female. It's about the behavior.. how they swim.. how they communicate with each other. I really can't explain it. 

Please read the other sites I listed.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

I already read those 3 sites that you posted in my first betta breeding thread way back, they helped me get to where i am. As for the way they interact, the male swims up to the glass jar, spreads his fin and front gill towards her a few times and then swims away. Comes back a few seconds later and does the same thing. The female usually just swims near him or up and down the glass jar really quickly. She also swims towards the bottom and like swims on her head with her tail in the air. Any good signs?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

How much is too much aggression when I release the female? When her body has blood on it I am guessing? I know torn fins are normal, which she has already but no blood damage at all...


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i think the reason im so confused is because i am getting different information every turn i look. people say different things to me all the time. i just found out on youtube that you should put them in the tank at the same time to counter territory possession. i had the male in for a week before i introduced the female in the glass jar. thats how i was told to do it, then i saw and read something else. very lame.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

JChristian, I have a few questions for you:

You said you had a place to put 300+ babies. Even if only a third are males, *do you have 100 jars? Even 50?*

You will most likely have a few deformed/unhealthy fish. *Are you prepared to cull (kill) them?*

You said you would sell them on Aquabid, Ebay, or here. Even if people bought them from you, *do you know how to package and ship each fish? Are you prepared to pay for $30 of shipping for each? *

"doesnt she look ready to breed in that photo? she has the white egg you can kind of see and her belly is big enough i think"

That spot is normal, many female bettas have it. Mine does, and she has never seen a male. A big belly is a sign of bloating.

"i once had little birds and i put them for like 3 dollars a piece on craigslist and people jumped at them. i figure the same thing for these. ill even put these for like 1 dollar a piece."

Waayyy different. Also, were you selling 300 birds? AND charging only a dollar won't ensure that they go to a good home.


"he just wont build one right now because hes too attracted to the female": People have already said that they DON'T miss each other or yearn for one another.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Forget any info you got from youtube, there are real breeders here, who are happy to give you the right info.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> i think the reason im so confused is because i am getting different information every turn i look. people say different things to me all the time. i just found out on youtube that you should put them in the tank at the same time to counter territory possession. i had the male in for a week before i introduced the female in the glass jar. thats how i was told to do it, then i saw and read something else. very lame.



DON'T use Youtube as a legit source of info. Also, if you were being told so many different things why didn't you just wait until you knew for sure?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

sigh. i am just so confused right now. it looked like the female was ready to breed, and my seller told me she was. i read that they have the white egg so i shouldnt go just by that. but now i just dont know what to do. i know i should wait a while before attempting to breed again, but i think i did all the research i can, i dont know what else to research...


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## lilchiwolf (Jan 10, 2011)

bettafish15 said:


> reading this thread i'm just like


omg! I am in tears on how funny this picture is!!!


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I have a few questions for you:

You said you had a place to put 300+ babies. Even if only a third are males, do you have 100 jars? Even 50?

You will most likely have a few deformed/unhealthy fish. Are you prepared to cull (kill) them?

You said you would sell them on Aquabid, Ebay, or here. Even if people bought them from you, do you know how to package and ship each fish? Are you prepared to pay for $30 of shipping for each?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

turtle, yes finding home isnt what im worried about. trust me i will find them homes. even if i have to keep them myself. as for culling, yes i will do that if needed. and yes im prepared to pay that for shipping if they pay that much for shipping. i will most likely do 2-3 day shipping though since priority mail is a pretty quick service. we had some pretty bad freezing rain and like 5 inches of snow the past 2 days, and i was shipped my female on this monday, and she still got here by today. so yes that isnt a problem. that stuff isnt what im worried about now. im just trying to get these two introduced to each other without my male killing her.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

So you are prepared to keep like 200 bettas? And that is what you should be worried about now, BEFORE you introduce the bettass.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't think you have your priorities straight here. 

You've asked for advice, and you've gotten a pretty resounding 'do not try to breed them' from all parties. What I do not understand is why you keep asking the same kinds of questions while ignoring all of the feedback you are given. 

Let me summarize for you. If you want to breed your fish without killing the female: 

1: Wait. Wait 3-6 months until she is *ready* to breed and you understand what you are doing. 

2: Do your homework. If you are confused, that means you are *not ready*. 

3. Wait until *you are ready to handle this* and are capable of taking feedback.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks glenah. you have been the most helpful.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well heres my new proposition. i think i pretty much did all the research i need. the thing i think went wrong the first time i introduced them, is that i didnt let the male enough time to build his nest, so he kept chasing the female nonstop because he wanted her out to build his nest. right now it seems normal the way it should be. the male is going up to her and flaring, then going under my indian almond leaf and building a bubble nest. the female keeps wanting out of the glass. so im pretty sure they can be bred. i just didnt give him enough time to build his nest. so after a few days until his nest is done, im gonna see what they do and try again. if he still chases her and doesnt let up or even go near his nest or she doesnt, i will remove her for a while. but i think everything is going as its supposed to now. because he is building his nest, she has vertical stripes and the white thing that is coming out from her belly. the white thing is emerged, its not sunk in. i think thats another thing i read that shes ready. but we will see.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

PLEASE wait longer like we have all been telling you too. The female's fins are damaged, she is NOT ready. 
And he was not chasing her because he wanted to build his nest, he was chasing her because he was aggressive and wanted his space! Males don't just build nests because of females, so that doesn't mean he is ready. The white thing has NOTHING to do with being ready, it means she is a girl. Please please please don't out them together. You are not ready and the bettas are not ready.


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm sorry, but you seem to be too hard headed to listen to good advice. Do you WANT your fish to end up tired and worn out, maybe on the verge of death, because you refuse to wait? I don't understand why you aren't listening. Also, that "white spot" is a feature ALL FEMALES HAVE WHETHER THEY ARE BEING BRED OR NOT. It is NOT a sign of readiness for breeding. I'm not sorry that I sound rude. You just don't seem to be the type who listens to gentle suggestions.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well i will wait probably, but i dont know what else to research...and you guys just seem to be criticizing everything i do and just tell me to wait. wait for what? he goes up to her, spreads his fins, then comes back to his bubble nest and makes it. the female seems like she now wants out of the glass jar and near him. i think this is the normal process.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

*sigh* We are not trying to be critical, we are trying to save bettas lives. The reason it seems harsh is because you won't listen to us. You ask advice, yet choose to do your own thing. This isn't about you, so if we seem critical then sorry, we are just looking out for the fish. We would hate to see two fish die because someone was too impatient to wait and wouldn't take advice from people who actually know what they are talking about. 

I would suggest waiting at least one month. Read old posts on here about breeding experiences, research a TON more on the internet from legit sources, and really think about what you are doing.

You NEED to wait until:

-you are more experienced
-the female has healed and de stressed
-you understand betta anatomy and behavior

Do you have the resources to care for 300+ fish? If you do, I am assuming this means food, conditioner, fry food, THREE different tanks for the breeding, and a different tank for every male. What if you get 130 males? Do you have 130 containers?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

"i *think* this is the normal process."

Our points exactly.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

bettafish15 said:


> Reading this thread I'm just like


This made me LAUGH OUT LOUD ! :lol: Well done


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

A: those who posted the above cat and the star trek MADE MY DAY!
B:
my opionion is DO NOT EVEN BREED THEM. you think you know but you really dont

to everyone else.... i bet within the next two weeks the title of this thread is going to hit again and jschristian will put them together despite all our advice. 
i say good luck to the fish and to him next time dont bother posting if your not prepared to fully take in what is being said.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)




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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Marona said:


>


That pretty much sums it up.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

jschristian44 said:


> well i will wait probably, but i dont know what else to research...and you guys just seem to be criticizing everything i do and just tell me to wait. wait for what? he goes up to her, spreads his fins, then comes back to his bubble nest and makes it. the female seems like she now wants out of the glass jar and near him. i think this is the normal process.


To summarize all the critisism: Everyone wants you to wait until you're the betta-breeding-master-of-all-time. c: Or rather: until you don't have any thoughts of thinking, only of knowing.

@turtle

Yeah I've been on a lot of forums so I have a lot of funny pictures in my arsenal. LOL. Some situations just need a good picture to ease the tension.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

@ Marona …. so true. Humor is the best. Regardless of the situation (and the fact I have never seen Star Trek!) those pictures were hilarious. And I literally laughed out loud at the cats face, I just couldn't believe it lol.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't watch Star Trek but I still love the picture lmao.
And yes that cat is hilarious. Along with the hamster similar to it.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I loved the Star Trek gif where they all give each other looks lol


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## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

Marona: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhA *takes breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

not necessarily " betta-breeding-master-of-all-time." just till he knows enough about fish keeping that the fish wont suffer from his ignorance.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

But mine sounded better. :C


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm not a breeder yet. I have only owned Bettas for roughly 6 months. But for months I've been researching and learning everyone's different stratagies and I still don't completely understand it. Lecture time...

I feel like I understand breeding completely. Then when I think of certain plans I don't know what the answer to what I need to know is. Fact is, you're only paying attention to introducing them. If you have that much trouble with that, what about the other things? That automatic feeder idea of yours wont work. You'll need to have 2 brinseshrimp hatcheries going if you feed them... they easily bloat and kill fry, too. And it's really hard to set them up. You need to feed a variety of live foods that take weeks to get a culture going. It takes days to get your brine shrimp hatcheries running. There has to be a variety between live foods for awhile, with things like microworms, banana worms, vinegar eels, etc. You can feed ONLY live food for the first month... you need to feed this live food 2-6 times daily. Just getting that food setup takes forever and is time consuming, and if you don't do that perfectly your fry will starve.

Next we get to the point of where you'd keep the fry. I notice you're avoiding turtles question of do you have enough containers for the Bettas. You never answered... you'll need several hundred, and it's best to give every Betta, even the females, in their own seperate homes. You need daily 100% water changes on EVERY home. So you have hundreds of Bettas and spend hours finishing all that work. 

And, the tank size you breed in itself. You need a minimum of 20 gallons for a growout tank for the fry. You need to do constant water changes or the fry will die because even the slightest hint of ammonia can kill them. And, if you change the water too often, that will also kill them.

How are you going to find homes again? I notice that on aquabid new breeders usually take weeks and months to sell their Bettas. Most fish lovers don't go on craigslist to shop for their high quality Bettas. Nobody ever buys Bettas on ebay. You have to ask ahead of time if people are even willing to take your Bettas. And if you give them to a petstore, you are a terrible breeder breeding for money because the Bettas will suffer and die.

Shipping... Do you have any idea how hard it is to arrange and pay all those thranshippers on aquabid? Or how hard it is to pack Bettas? You have to pack it very perfectly and tightly, because even the slightest movement can cause the Betta death.

Your genetics? Have you studied up on them? You do realize which color you'll come off with, and if your male is blue like your female they'll have blue fry, which few people want since most people like the rarer colors. And the fin types. I can't tell what fin types you have, but if one is or has veiltail genes, then you'll end up with veiltail fry, which nobody would EVER buy except maybe 2 or 3 people after a couple of months to a year. And how are the body and fin shapes of the Bettas? Are they the standards? Any deformed scales? Deformed gills? Deformed mouths? Any bad genetics in their history?

Now introducing your Bettas. The white dot on the female means she is a female Betta. All female Bettas have them. You have to have many plants and hiding places for your Bettas, you have to cycle the spawning tank. If the male is more aggressive then the female you're supposed to put him in the jar first. If you have a pair that doesn't have a calm and an aggressive Betta then they will probably not spawn. Males do not build bubblenests because they want to breed. I have a feeling you get recources off of yahoo answers, but if you do stop it NOW. Those people have dead fish. By the way, your spawning tank size can't be too big or too small. There can't be any substrate, either. And once the female is removed you have to leave the lights on 24/7 until you remove the male and you'll have bright light all night. All Bettas suffer and get injuries from breeding. You also have to condition the pair, and the father and mother of COURSE need a seperate tank. 

In the end, you probably devote 5-10 hours at least a day on your fry. Still think you know everything? Then I can garuntee that you are wrong.


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

I want a like button. ^This^


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yes, dont worry about the containers, i have them.
i will wait though, i pretty much figure thats what most people have told me.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> yes, dont worry about the containers, i have them.
> i will wait though, i pretty much figure thats what most people have told me.


You haven't addressed most of the points raised, so I will re post them:

"That automatic feeder idea of yours wont work. You'll need to have 2 brinseshrimp hatcheries going if you feed them... they easily bloat and kill fry, too. And it's really hard to set them up. You need to feed a variety of live foods that take weeks to get a culture going. It takes days to get your brine shrimp hatcheries running. There has to be a variety between live foods for awhile, with *things like microworms, banana worms, vinegar eels, etc. You can feed ONLY live food for the first month... you need to feed this live food 2-6 times daily.* Just getting that food setup takes forever and is *time consuming*, and if you don't do that *perfectly* your fry will starve."

"You need daily 100% water changes on *EVERY* home. So you have *hundreds of Bettas* and spend *hours* finishing all that work. "

"You need to do constant water changes or the fry will die because even the *slightest hint of ammonia* can kill them. And, if you change the water too often, that will also kill them."

"How are you going to find homes again?"

"Shipping... Do you have any idea how hard it is to arrange and *pay* all those thranshippers on aquabid? Or how hard it is to pack Bettas? You have to pack it v*ery perfectly and tightly*, because even the *slightest movement can cause the Betta death*"

"Your genetics? Have you studied up on them? You do realize which color you'll come off with, and if your male is blue like your female they'll have blue fry, which few people want since most people like the rarer colors. And the fin types. I can't tell what fin types you have, *but if one is or has veiltail genes, then you'll end up with veiltail fry, which nobody would EVER buy except maybe 2 or 3 people after a couple of months to a year.* And how are the body and fin shapes of the Bettas? Are they the standards? Any deformed scales? Deformed gills? Deformed mouths? Any bad genetics in their history?"

"Now introducing your Bettas. The white dot on the female means she is a female Betta. *All female Bettas have them*. You have to have many plants and hiding places for your Bettas, *you have to cycle* the spawning tank. If the male is more aggressive then the female you're supposed to *put him in the jar first*. If you have a pair that doesn't have a calm and an aggressive Betta then they will probably not spawn. *Males do not build bubblenests because they want to breed*. I have a feeling you get recources off of yahoo answers, but if you do stop it NOW. Those people have dead fish. By the way, your spawning tank size can't be too big or too small. There can't be any substrate, either. And once the female is removed you have to leave the lights on 24/7 until you remove the male and you'll have bright light all night. All Bettas suffer and get injuries from breeding. You also have to condition the pair, and the father and mother of COURSE need a seperate tank."

"In the end, you probably devote *5-10 hours* at least a day on your fry"

FIVE to TEN hours a day, are you going to do that? I am assuming you have a job or school that you need to attend to, that doesn't leave much time.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

like i said turtle and abby, i have done all the research i can think of doing. and everyone and everyplace gives me different advice so i dont know WHAT to go by. but from most of the sites ive read that the female should have vertical bars on her body, which she does. she also has the white egg at the bottom, which is mixed to whether she is ready or not, but it seems most of them have it so im only going by the vertical bars. and as for the male, what hes doing is going back and forth from the female in the glass to his bubble nest. i already have the spawning tank setup like it should. i really dont know what else to research that will give me legit information. but it seems like they will chase and bite at their fins, but i might just be being over cautious because it took forever for this female to get to my house and i dont want her dying. but i hear it takes a lot for her to die. but all i see is the male just chase her endlessly til she finds a spot to hide then he works on his nest then looks for her. then he chases her and she hides. i hear this can go on for hours, but when i put her back in the hurricane jar, she is exhausted for like 5 minutes and rests and the top and then is ready to go again. is this normal? should i just let her out and see what happens. how far is too far, when she is bleeding?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

TAKE HER AWAY FROM THE MALE NOW. I cannot understand how you REFUSE to listen to good advice and put them together again anyways. I am so upset for those poor fish right now.
She is NOT READY TO GO AGAIN, IT JUST MEANS SHE CAUGHT HER BREATH BACK. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONDITIONED SO THEY ARE NOT READY. 

You have already gone WAY too far.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

AND you still have not addressed the points raised. Research is only part of it. Have you found about a hundred people willing to take the fish? Is the spawning tank gone through the nitrogen cycle? Have you conditioned the bettas for two weeks?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

What other places are you getting advice from?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i have taken her away. im gonna condition her. and see if that helps.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

the female seems conditioned well enough, and yes i did the nitrogen cycle.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Can you please answer my questions? And do you even know what "condition her" means?

What other places are you getting advice from?
Have you found about a hundred people willing to take the fish? 
Is the spawning tank gone through the nitrogen cycle? 
Have you conditioned the bettas for two weeks?
Do you know that the white spot has NOTHING to do with breeding?
Are you going to spend 10 hours a day caring for the fry?
Have you made any arrangements with transhippers?
Do you have a variety of live foods ready to eat?
Do you have 300 hundred containers?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

She is not conditioned at all!!!! Conditioning them takes about two weeks, and that is after she has rested and destressed for at least a week, longer now that you put them back together.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

What are the parameters of the spawning tank?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I vote for this thread to be closed and a new one created in the breeding section because 
1. It's going off topic
2. There have been rude posts
3. There is A LOT of bad information being given that is only confusing the OP more. It'd take me a half hour just to go through all the posts and correct the  bad info.. some of which I and Mr. V have already refuted.


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah thats why im so confused. 1fish2fish gets it. i have heard yahoo is bad for advice, which i cant disagree because anyone can post in their answers site which gives bad info. but i think i done all the research i could. i just think my female wasnt condiitoned enough and thats why she got the crap beat out of her. my male seemed to be doing everything i wanted him to. but anyways, thanks 1fish2fish, this thread had gone past its lifetime after teh second post where abby said no. i appreciate all the help and criticism, but this thread has gone way off topic. i just needed help because it was my first time, and im pretty sure why the female didnt breed. but i just want to thank abby, turtles, mrvampire, and 1fish2fish for their help. these are the people that know what they are talking about, and i will listen to their advice. turtle has been pming me really helping me so i appreciate that very much.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

How do you close a thread? Does the super moderator or someone do it?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

they could, but usual you just make a new posting starting fresh like i just did!


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## Sherleelee (Dec 19, 2010)

lilchiwolf said:


> omg! I am in tears on how funny this picture is!!!


*Beyond WIN!:-D*


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## Sherleelee (Dec 19, 2010)

*Omg please close this post.*
*1. I really belive the OP is a troll, NO ONE can come onto a betta forum and be this thick in the head!*
*2. If he is for real he is making me very upset that someone could put 2 fish through this for no bloody reason!*
*I know this is rude but i reallllly dislike the OP and closing this thread would be best.*


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Sherleelee said:


> *Omg please close this post.*
> *1. I really belive the OP is a troll, NO ONE can come onto a betta forum and be this thick in the head!*
> *2. If he is for real he is making me very upset that someone could put 2 fish through this for no bloody reason!*
> *I know this is rude but i reallllly dislike the OP and closing this thread would be best.*


Troll? He's not a troll. "Thick headed", your words, perhaps- certainly wasnt listening.
Congrats on being upset. You and like 50 others are, too, but that's not helping this situation-which is over-at all. 
Again, congrats! Flowers for you! If its rude, Why post?

*Ugh, just kill this thread already.*

OP, dont post anymore threads partaining to this. Either dont do it or PM someone who DOES. Its a youknwowhat show at this point. Not everyone on here knows what theyre talking about, though they think they are giving you the right info, and theyre leading you astray.
Good luck with what you do- try not to kill your fish. They deserve your love, not your ignorance. :-?


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## Sherleelee (Dec 19, 2010)

PewPewPew said:


> Troll? He's not a troll. "Thick headed", your words, perhaps- certainly wasnt listening.
> Congrats on being upset. You and like 50 others are, too, but that's not helping this situation-which is over-at all.
> Again, congrats! Flowers for you! If its rude, Why post?
> 
> ...


*Wow sarcasim really wasnt needed there... I simply stated i was upset casue maybe the more people that post they are upset about how OP is going about doing things may get this post closed quicker..*


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well the male built a pretty large bubble nest thus far. he isnt chasing the female as much and she looks at his nest every now and then. i really hope they spawn tomorrow, if not they will on sunday.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm thinking troll as well. =/


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

Huh. Weird. I thought you were selling that female, JS?

xD This does seem trollish. Just saying from experience. The fact that OP ignored all those posts just now lol.

Why is everyone backseat moderating?


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## baylee767 (Nov 5, 2010)

You tried to sell your female on aquabid... why? WHY? What kind of a cruel person tries to give away their Betta and really stress it out just because there isn't success in breeding? And you're planning to sell her for sure if she doesn't breed by sunday, right? Why?

This is getting sick. Please don't do this. I think you lied in your other threads, because you said in one thread that they already had eggs. Please get off this forum if you're going to ignore our advice, act trollish, and say things that are upsetting alot of members. 

I don't mean to sound rude, but I am genually shocked by how this is turning out. We just want what's best for your Bettas, why don't you believe us?


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

i believe you, im not a troll, i dont know how this got into a cruel thread. i am notorious for causing trouble in threads so i usually just get banned or i just dont post. but a lot of good people have helped me here, more bad than good, but the good is what keeps me staying. and i took my female off aquabid and im not selling her. i just thought maybe someone would take her off my hands before she died, but that isn't going to happen, i wont let it.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> i believe you, im not a troll, *i dont know how this got into a cruel thread. * i am notorious for causing trouble in threads so i usually just get banned or i just dont post. but a lot of good people have helped me here, more bad than good, but the good is what keeps me staying. and i took my female off aquabid and im not selling her. i just thought maybe someone would take her off my hands before she died, but that isn't going to happen, i wont let it.


Because you wouldn't listen to anyone!!!!! And no one was cruel.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Marona said:


> Why is everyone backseat moderating?


Because a mod isnt closing this thread by now?


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

Did someone pm them? xD Rather then taking control of a thread they actually have no control over? LOL


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## jschristian44 (Jan 6, 2011)

well the progress in the spawning is at this stage. less chasing, he is trying to lure her more to the nest. she eventually goes under the nest, checks it out, then leaves. one time it looked like she was ready to spawn under it. right now she just keeps looking at hte nest.


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

I don't see where anyone who replied to this thread was cruel.


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## Sherleelee (Dec 19, 2010)

jschristian44 said:


> well the progress in the spawning is at this stage. less chasing, he is trying to lure her more to the nest. she eventually goes under the nest, checks it out, then leaves. one time it looked like she was ready to spawn under it. right now she just keeps looking at hte nest.


_*And soon your poor fish is going to be dead from all this way to go.....:evil:*_


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## Marona (Jan 31, 2011)

Well, good luck. That's all we can give now, folks. Just try to take it slower next time, ok, js? You really rushed this.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Thread closed.


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