# Medicating a Betta for ick



## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm re-posting this as I have another topic on the board that I think people have lost interest in and figured things were answered in. I have one simple question. My fish has Ick. I have a bottle of API Super Ick treatment. I know that this is a dumb question, but I've never done this before. You keep the fish in the tank when you put the treatment in, right? Please forgive my incredible stupidity.


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

that is correct, and no, you are not stupid! Ick should look like your fish is sprinkled in salt or sugar, and rubs on objects. how big is your tank, so we can figure the dose?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a five gallon tank with a couple of decorations, internal tetra whisper filter (that looks like a cup), a tetra underwater heater, and filled to within about an inch and a half to the top. 
The bottle says to add 5 ml per 5 gallons.
Should I use the full 5 ml or should I cut it down a little?

I'm sorry if I need hand holding. But I really want to do things right.
I'll put it in right away once I make sure that things are proper. Thank you very much for helping.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Didn't read your previous post but are you sure your betta has ick? 
Remove the filter and wash it in the hot boiling water, don't keep cartridge though. But filter it self wash with boiling water and put it outside or inside for a few days or more to air dry it. This will kill parasites,they die without host. I understood you don't have live plants, right?

Use medications, but also i recommend to buy aquarium salt to have it on hands in case medications will not help and you need to prolong the treatment.
Aquarium salt dehydrate parasites and also will prevent secondary infections. Higher temperature will speed up parasites life cycle and help them to fall faster. 
What temperature do you have?
Also i would say don't put medications directly to the tank dissolve it first with water.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Yes. The betta has ick. The tail and fins look like they have dandruff.

*Confused* I want to keep this as least complicated as possible. So I should do a water change and put enough medication in the new water for a 5 gallon tank?
I really don't know what I'm doing here and I don't trust myself.


I always thought that you just added the meds to the tank directly.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes.
About medications i don't think it will make big difference ,i still like to dissolve it in the cup with water and then to the tank. I think it better and you don't wantto put it directly on the betta.


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## sainthogan (Sep 27, 2012)

Also, if you take the filter cartridge out, don't put another one in yet. The biofilter itself can interfere with the medications and make them less effective. (The directions that came with your whisper filter say that, but a lot of people forget)


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't have filter in any of my tanks, but everything that you wash with hot water and air dry at least you know will kill any ich.

I would even recommend to take everything out if you can and lower the water so it will be easier for you to change it. And do daily water changes with re dosing medications every time. And i would also have aquarium salt on hands. And don't afraid to use aquarium salt it proofed and save.
I was trying to read previous post but it too late and my husband getting aggravated that i am on the computer. So i was unable to read. But i saw that he also has bouncy problem? Is he still has it? If he is i would use also epsom salt. Or at least have it on hands. If you have betta fish aquarium and epsom salt is like emergency kit , always can be helpful. Never afraid to use any of the salt, like i said proof and safe.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Okay. I did about a 50% water change. Removed the filter cartridge. Put enough medication in the water for a 5 gallon tank and replaced the water. I left the filter running without a cartridge with the hope that the medication will cycle through it and kill any parasites that happen to be in it. 
He seems to be having boyancy problems, yes. He keeps floating up and tries to wedge himself under stuff to stay down. 
We're going to fast him for a few days to see if he gets better (I've read that constipation can cause this). If things don't improve, he's going to get tossed into a breeder tank with some epsom salts too.

Also, the medication says to repeat the dose in 48 hours. Then, 48 hours later, do a water change. Does that mean that for the next dose I just toss it in there or do I do another water change, mix the dose with water, and put the water in?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

ok.. Sorry I'm a bit late. your easiest method for curing ich... is to up the temperature slowwwwwly to 86F you can probably even go to about 88...
ich dies naturally t this temperature apprently. 

also use aquarium salt at 2tsp/ gallon... this should get rid of it... also do a thorough gravel vacuum and 50% water change everyday. 
whether you use this method or use the meds...
goodluck.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The little breeder tank I have takes about 16 ounces of water. I realize that's small but it's all I have. If I have to use the epsom salts, about how much would I put in that tank with him? Or should I put the salts right in my 5 gallon tank where he lives?

We aren't going to be able to increase the temperature as we have one of those non-adjustable heaters and my wife will not let me spend money on a new one. She says that she's spent way too much money on "These damn two inch long fish". At this point, she's getting stressed and ticked off and is almost to the point of flushing the fish. Her version of pet care and my version of pet care are two totally different things. She was raised with the viewpoint that "These are animals, not people. If they get injured or sick, you put them down rather than spend hard earned money to nurse them back to health". I was raised the opposite way so we're fighting a LOT about the fish right now as I want to care for them but I need to be allowed to buy stuff to do that and she's not happy with me spending ANY money at the moment because we already overspent on tanks, filters, heaters, etc.. for two tanks. She was expecting to get a $3.00 fish. Put it in a $5 bowl, and be done with it.
I was lucky that she allowed me to buy that little breeder tank. My idea is to use it as a water acclimation tank so that we don't have to float a pet store's bag or plastic cup in the tank. Heck. I was lucky that she allowed me to buy the bottle of Ick treatment.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

epsom wont do anything for ich... can you turn up the temps any mee? It has to be 86F or higher to work...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

OK second easiest way to do this. can you get a 1 gallon container? ANY kind will do as long as it is clean.

can you put the heater in there and test the temps? you got that? OK good. 
Now every half a day, Without fail....do a watee change. and clean his 1 gallon verrrry thoroughly with hot water. Then te adjust the water for him (temperature matchig is very important here) dechlorinate. add 3tsp/ gallon salt. dissolve it. then pour as much of his water out as possible. then put him back in....

I've done this before with no meds for two of my bettas pre heater ownership and they've both survived just fine. 

Ich is the easiest disease to cure... dont stress

and all this only if the heater works well in the 1 gallon...


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The instructions for the medication says to leave it in for 48 hours. Then put another dose in. Then wait another 48 hours, then do a water change. Does this mean that I just toss the second dose in there or do I do a water change, mix the new dose with water and then put it in, and then after that 48 hours, do a water change? 
Things are starting to conflict here. Now I have a small roughly 16 ounce breeder tank that I can clip to the side of the tank and put it waterside so that it will stay the same temp as the water in the tank. I realize that this is small, but it was the biggest "hospital tank" that my wife was willing to let me spend money on. Would it be easier to put him in there to do the epsom salt treatment or since he's being treated for the Ick, should I put the epsom or aquarium salts into the whole 5 gallon tank itself? Is it safe to leave that salt in there? Will it hurt the filter? I don't have any live plants. Since he's being treated for the Ick and the instructions say to leave the medication in for 48 hours and considering with the salts, you should do a daily water change, should I wait for the Ich treatment period to be over before doing the salt treatments? 
My betta having two different problems with two different treatments that seem to contradict what you need to do for each of them is really confusing me.

I'm reading that for fish with swim bladder disorder that you shouldn't feed him for a few days to see if he's constipated and if he poops, it usually eliminates the problem.
Then, I'm reading that a fish with Ich should be fed to keep his immune system up so he can fight the parasites off.

The ick treatment is going to take at least 4 days with one water change at the end according to the back of the bottle.
How am I going to put the salt in there properly without messing up what I'm doing with the ick medication? 
If this was just one thing, it would be fine. I could do one or the other. Am I going to have to wait till I finish the ick treatment to begin the salt and if I add the salt, how am I supposed to add it to the tank with no water change (if I do, it will mess with the instructions the medication gave me)


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

it's not good to use both salt and meds. you can definite go the meds way. try it and see how it goes! dont over dose, I still recommend the half day water changes. reasona being, you can get rid of the parasite when they are free swimming. but you cannot do it when they are attached to the fish

but if you are not confident, follow the bottle directions

next time your fish gets ich... you will be fine with just aquarium salt. ich medication is toxic and have the chabce of hurting your betta more than Aq salt


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> OK second easiest way to do this. can you get a 1 gallon container? ANY kind will do as long as it is clean.
> 
> can you put the heater in there and test the temps? you got that? OK good.
> Now every half a day, Without fail....do a watee change. and clean his 1 gallon verrrry thoroughly with hot water. Then te adjust the water for him (temperature matchig is very important here) dechlorinate. add 3tsp/ gallon salt. dissolve it. then pour as much of his water out as possible. then put him back in....
> ...


I don't have a one gallon. I have a single 5 gallon tank that he lives in and a little 16 ounce breeder tank (that I use as a temperature acclimator). That's all I have. I don't have another tank to put him in.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Just a question: I'm using the "API Super Ick Cure" bottle
When it says to wait 48 hours and then dose again, then wait another 48 hours, then do a water change, does that mean that I just toss the second dose right in the tank with no water change? Or should I do another 50% water change, add the medication to the water, and refill the tank for that second dose? I'm confused.

Instructions are here under the "Additional Information" tab.
http://www.bigalspets.com/super-ick...son+Shopping&gclid=COmp482ylrMCFUWo4AodXzwAMA


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lol! no lunch boxes? I guess you have no choice but to medicate then.
and yeah.. no water changes if it didnt specify.
its a way to acclimatise the fish to the maximum effective dosage I guess.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

So basically, take care of the ick, first and once that's done, then treat him for the other issue? 

Now I've seen a contradiction for treatment: 
1. When a fish has ick, you're supposed to feed him to keep his immune system up
2. When a fish has swim bladder disorder, you shouldn't feed him for about 3 days or so and then give him a pea if he's still having problems.

Which do I do? He has both problems.

I feel bad for the poor thing, having to jam himself under stuff to stay down. I'm scared because I'm afraid that both problems might kill him and I get really attached to my pets.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

leave the bouyancy alone... and fast him for a few days. Again a warmer temperature will probably solve your problem... but hey... gotta please the wife


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> leave the bouyancy alone... and fast him for a few days. Again a warmer temperature will probably solve your problem... but hey... gotta please the wife


She will NOT let me buy a new heater. She says that we've spent WAY too much on these fish. Two tanks. Two heaters, two filters, a bucket, a siphon, etc... and now medication, and a small breeder tank that I plan to use in case of acclimating new fish should one of these two die... 
She's had ENOUGH in capital letters of spending money to this extreme on two two inch fish. She's of the mentality of "They're animals. If they get sick, put them down." I've always been of the opposite viewpoint. So we're having an all out war about trying to save this sick fish.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I know! lol! I didn't mean it in a bad way actually  Im all for having peace in the family. and if the fish has to go to maintain that peace. so be it. lol


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> I know! lol! I didn't mean it in a bad way actually


Haha. I just hope my little guy pulls through this. It's odd that I've had aquariums before and never had to deal with ick. Nor did I ever have a fish with buoyancy issues. I love animals and I feel so bad for this poor guy. I almost tear up when I look at him now.
Fish are supposed to be relaxing. I've never been through something like this before and I'm certainly not relaxed any more.:-(

The poor guy has wedged himself under a decoration to stay down at the bottom.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Relax  I'm sure that if ur laid back about it and seem pro your wife will catch the mood too 

I was still playing with my fish when I medicated one of them for ich * searches for video*
Just do what you have to do  And yes, I medicated him in that 1/4 gallon tub which I religiously washed out twice a day XD and he recovered in no time. it's surprising how many bettas from the LFS comes with ich.

oh well, better than velvet 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/aoshiryu/ff3bc4ae.mp4


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Relax  I'm sure that if ur laid back about it and seem pro your wife will catch the mood too
> 
> I was still playing with my fish when I medicated one of them for ich * searches for video*
> Just do what you have to do  And yes, I medicated him in that 1/4 gallon tub which I religiously washed out twice a day XD and he recovered in no time. it's surprising how many bettas from the LFS comes with ich.
> ...


DAWWWWWW !!! Lookit that cute little guy!!!!! Oh my god, he's adorable!!!

I'm not so upset about the ick. The floaty problem is scaring me a lot though.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Yes! he was the most adorable betta ever XD my first one in fact...

well, you can definitely try flaring him to see if that will help him pass poop.
Meanwhile try PMing OldFishLady. I'd say she's the most knowledgeable about epsom salt and will be able to tell you whether or not you can medicate at the same time


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Yes! he was the most adorable betta ever XD my first one in fact...
> 
> well, you can definitely try flaring him to see if that will help him pass poop.
> Meanwhile try PMing OldFishLady. I'd say she's the most knowledgeable about epsom salt and will be able to tell you whether or not you can medicate at the same time


I've tried that. He'll get a little excited, but he doesn't flare at all. I've just noticed that he has some white bumps (looking a little larger than ick or maybe it's a patch of ick or some kind of injury or tumor) on one of his gills. He won't flare at all. He used to flare at me just by my being in the room.

I have this really sinking feeling that I'm going to lose him. His ick infestation doesn't look that bad, but now that I see that patch on his gill and combining that with the float issue... I really have a fear that he's going to be a goner. 8(

I wish this place had a chat room so I could ask my million questions and get my questions answered faster. Every time I think of a question and get an answer, 10 more questions pop up in my head.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

there's a facebook page.... lemme see if I can get the link. but usually I'm the only nocturnal one...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

here

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/groups/427857977247585?__user=727045942


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I think I found it. http://www.facebook.com/groups/427857977247585/


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

yup


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

or you can login with your username at tropicalfishkeeping.com and use the chat room


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks. I'll do that. I really hope what this guy is suffering from isn't fatal. I feel so stressed and horrible about it.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

How many days should I not feed him? I don't want to weaken him. And how long do fish suffering from this usually take to recover when fasted (if that's the problem)?


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## jsgossamer (Oct 11, 2012)

can you post a picture of your guy?


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Sorry i tryed to read 4 pages but probably missed a lot.

Just want to write my recommendations. If you start medications i would definitely finish it. And like someone wrote if it will not help you can continue with aquarium salt. I am recommending to do 100% water changes with aq salt. I would also do 100% water changes after 48 hrs. to remove any ick manually .


For buoyancy can you just feed him less first instead of fasting him. Sorry imissed if he is bloated. If he is bloated then you might overfeed him or it due to other internal problems. If he is not bloated epsom salt would help.
I read that you can use epsom salt with medications we can find out that. I know Sakura is very good about that. So you can treat with medications and we can pm Sakura on advice about Epsom.

So i think it best for you, since you can raise the temp just treat him with meds and then with aq salt. And we can find out about epsom. And one time some one on this forum wrote that you can mix salts in certain cases like yours for example. So we also can ask Sakura advice on it.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

The reason to up the temperature is not to kill the parasite but rather to speed up its life cycle, making it mature faster so it falls of the fish and is susceptible to medication faster. The parasite is more susceptible to the meds or the salt when it is free flowing. Also vacuum your gravel or substrate well as the parasite can remain in the substrate. My fish had ick and I used Tetra Ick Guard tabs. One tab dissolved for every 20 gallons. I had to change 25% of the water daily and redose. Biofilter wasnt affected nor did it affect the medication. Ick was gone in 2 days but kept treating for 2 more with PWC and gravel vacuuming. One word of caution: the tabs will tint your water blue and will stain your decorations and the silicone.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Freyja said:


> The reason to up the temperature is not to kill the parasite but rather to speed up its life cycle, making it mature faster so it falls of the fish and is susceptible to medication faster.



That is true too. but it is found that ich stops reproducing at a certain temperature. and the temperature was 86F+


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

Exactly, it speeds up everything in their life cycle.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Freyja said:


> Exactly, it speeds up everything in their life cycle.



lol. yes. heat speeds up the life cycle of many creatures. that's why you will never see a betta live to 8 years old with warm temps 
but atleast they live a good life.

So in the case of ich, the warmer temperatures speed up the life cycle of the ich up so that their life ends before they have a chance to reproduce  without eggs, there will be no free swimming larvae. So it essentially kills one generation off whilst preventing the next

actually I take that back! haha. apparenty they propagate via division.


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Blacklight said:


> Yes. The betta has ick. The tail and fins look like they have dandruff.
> 
> *Confused* I want to keep this as least complicated as possible. So I should do a water change and put enough medication in the new water for a 5 gallon tank?
> I really don't know what I'm doing here and I don't trust myself.
> ...


 
If you can post some pix, It helps us to see what you are describing, and will better determine treatment;-)


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

Is this the same fish with the SBD..on the other thread, or different fish? sorry now I am confused..


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

The problem is that Blacklight can't raise the temperature,not sure what is his temp right now. But i read that even with out raising you can do daily water (100%) and it would help.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I think we're going to lose the little guy. I put the medication in last night. I just checked him and the ick on him has doubled. It's on his body now and his gills are going a mile a minute.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

it's not unusal for the ich to double... dont give up yet!


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

My poor fishy. 8(


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I think I've asked the question before. but where are you located?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm in Connecticut. 
The fishy looks horrible right now. He's stuffed himself under a decoration and he doesn't want to move. I have a feeling that if he pulls through, it's going to be a miracle.

Our girl fishy is doing perfect. She's spunky, seemingly happy, and downright crazy. She wouldn't last long in the wild. She would probably swim into another fishes mouth because it looked fun in there. She has no fear of the siphon or human hand. When I was doing the water change, she kept rubbing against my hand, and was trying to play with and go into the siphon. You have to be REALLY careful with the siphon around her or else she'll go for a ride (and will probably find it fun and will do it again). She has no fear of people and when you look at her, she will be right there REALLY EXCITEDLY looking at you. 
Crazy freakin' fish.

My wife says that if the boy dies, she'll probably get another girl fish because it seems a lot less trouble to her than a "fragile" boy betta.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

So sorry not sure what happened though. If you have aquarium salt dissolve 3 tsp/gall and do 100% water changes. Make sure you do not share anything between poor thing and other fish.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

Sorry for saying that but you will need disaffect the tank and everything in the tank


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Well, he becomes more active when I disturb the gravel near him. I poked the gravel near him. He swam up and he seems to be having an easier time with the depth control. He was still tending to go up, but he was able to hover in place a bit this time which he had a REALLY hard time doing yesterday. He also took a couple gulps of air. I was concerned because I wasn't seeing him come up for air unless he was doing it all stealth like when I wasn't watching. The ick doesn't look as bad as it looked this morning. It looks to have dropped off a little. It's still worse than it was yesterday, but I'm hoping against hope that measures are working. We need to get him to turn the corner.
Just the fact that he's at least reacting to me poking near him with the handle of my net is a far better sign than him just sitting there.
I'm having a feeling that his case of "The floats" is due to my wife giving him too many pellets. We're fasting him for a few days to see if we can't get that to go away. On day three, I'm going to give him a few bites of pea to make sure he's "cleaned out"

He's also probably shoving himself under and behind stuff to hide because he doesn't feel well.

I noticed that there's a swollen spot on his body in the midpoint between his belly and his tail, right in the middle. Kind of like that area is inflated a little. I'm wondering if it's just swollen from the ick.
Second Ick treatment is tomorrow night.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The timing of this is really bad. His tank is in the middle of cycling so I really have to watch for the ammonia spikes while treating too. I just hope that the ammonia doesn't spike in the next four days forcing me to do a water change that will mess up the medication dosing.
Hopefully, that 50% water change I did at the time of the fist treatment will hold off the ammonia for a while. 
When it rains, it pours.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Make sure you vacuum the gravel every day if you don't do 100% water changes. I would also lower the water if he has difficulty to swim up to the surface. And i would do 100% water change between the treatment. And i would be also ready for the salt treatment just in case, and like someone wrote it will prevent from secondary infection. But i think it should be 100% water changes with salt. Well i don't understand cycling but i was helping someone with ich and she was doing 100% water changes even with meds. She actually did salt and then she continue with meds.
And wash with hot water and air dry a net after each uses it will kill ich.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

For parasites I agree with anhel to gravel siphon the bottom for any fallen parasites.

I would be more worried about the fish, then cycling.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Blacklight said:


> The timing of this is really bad. His tank is in the middle of cycling so I really have to watch for the ammonia spikes while treating too. I just hope that the ammonia doesn't spike in the next four days forcing me to do a water change that will mess up the medication dosing.
> Hopefully, that 50% water change I did at the time of the fist treatment will hold off the ammonia for a while.
> When it rains, it pours.


you wont mess up the medication. a dose is a dose....
as long as what kills the ich is in that medication then you should be good. nothing magically happens over 48 hours really. 
they simply ask you to dose twice because medication, is toxic, and like salt needs to be worked up to the full amount. so essentially you can view your first dose as half a dose.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Make sure you vacuum the gravel every day if you don't do 100% water changes. I would also lower the water if he has difficulty to swim up to the surface. And i would do 100% water change between the treatment. And i would be also ready for the salt treatment just in case, and like someone wrote it will prevent from secondary infection. But i think it should be 100% water changes with salt. Well i don't understand cycling but i was helping someone with ich and she was doing 100% water changes even with meds. She actually did salt and then she continue with meds.
> And wash with hot water and air dry a net after each uses it will kill ich.


He's not having a problem getting to the surface. He's got the opposite problem. In order to stay down, he's wedging himself under stuff. He came out from under his little bridge when my wife came home to check on him. He's definitely handleing his bouyancy a little better than yesterday. He's able to hover somewhat where as before, he was going to the top like a fishing bobber.

I just checked on him and he went swimming around the bottom somewhat ok. He's still covered end to end in ick. His fins look a lot shorter now too. I'm wondering if it's because of the ick or if he's now developed fin rot on top of everything else.

This poor fishy.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well, keep up with water changes... Can you get a picture of his fins? It could be that he is biting - I have had that with a few who had ich.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm not supposed to do a water change for another 3 days as I'm using the Ick medication. I do the next does tomorrow night.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Okay, are you able to get a picture of his fins for us?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'll try. He's very content with hiding right now.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

haha I bet :lol:


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Question. I'm fasting this guy because of his swim bladder issue. How long should I go before I start giving him pellets again and how much should I give him?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Epsom salt is actually helpful for this matter - usually I use epsom salt, for three days after the symptoms disappear to ensure it won't come back. I usually feed mine at least a couple pellets a day (except in constipation, therein epsom is definitely a good thing, and I wait until they poo!) to avoid starving them. Give him a couple days


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I would think frozen daphnia would be ok to feed ?
Also i want to recommend something. I recommended it to 3 people who treated fish with medications for internal and external parasites. They did daily water 100% water changes even though instructions on the medications box didn't recommended it. They redose after each water change. I would think it would be good for your fish since he has, i would say moderate case of ich. The more water changes the better to get rid of ich. I don't know that what i would do.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

^+1


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Okay. Just to calm my fears, does Ick usually look like the fins are covered in powder? I don't see anything on his body... but my wife says that there's a grey patch on his gills on one side. I can't see it because he's hiding and when he does come out, he's zipping all over so fast I can't see. His fins look like they're covered in a white powder. The ends of the fins are totally shredded looking now. I think this is ick but I want to make sure it's not Velvet.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

ich looks like salt grain. they are well defined grains... if it looks like dust... its probably velvet. Shine a flashlight on him when its dark and see if the dust look like gold dust


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

It looks like purpleish specks. in a flashlight. His tail is REALLY decaying fast. It's shorter than it was before. It looks like someone sprinkled powder on his tail. In regular light, it looks whitish. I can see distinct large round white spots in with the LOTS of tiny spots. It looks like.. dandruff. That's the only way I can describe it. There's a little of it at the base of his fins too. I hope I havn't misdiagnosed this guy.

This poor fishy. 8(

I wish I had a pic of what Velvet looks like on the fish's fins. I can't find any on the internet anywhere. The only pics I see are of fishes bodies and his body looks nothing like that.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Okay. I got up close and personal with what tiny part of his tail was hanging out of his hidy hole where I can't see him. I can see a few large white lumps in there surrounded by lots of TEENY TINY white round specks that would probably take 10 or so together to equal the size of the big ones. There's HUNDREDS of the teeny ones just in the tiny bit of his tail that I'm seeing. Looking at it, I'm pretty sure this is Ick or something that looks a lot like it. 
I just hope this medication does it's job. I feel so bad for the poor little guy. He's not going to have any fins left if he survives.

On the plus side, his swim bladder issue seems to be a little better. I'm hoping for more improvement in that area.

He definitely looks worse than when I put the medication dosage in last night. There's LOTS more spots covering his fins than yesterday.
He looks like he has the worst case of Ick I've ever seen in a fish. I wish we had caught this sooner.

If he miraculously survives this, he'll be a freakin' miracle fish. I'm still thinking that things are just too bad and that he's not going to make it. I've never seen a fish look like this. It looks like his gills are going a mile a minute and that's not a good sign. He also doesn't appear to be wanting to come up and gulp air that much either. He can, but he'd rather hide.

I feel so horrible whenever I look at this poor guy. I hope this medication starts working.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

If all those tiny ones need to eat till they turn into the big sized ones, this fish is as good as dead. There's so many of them.
It kills me that there's one specific part of the instructions for treatment that my wife won't let me do. And that's get a good heater that's actually adjustable so I can get the heat up above 75.

Aaaaaand my wife just yelled at me for even bringing it up.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

:/ well if it IS velvet then treatment is the same. just leave it be I guess and do the water changes as per usual. there are heaters on ebay for $6. however they come from asia and will take a month to arrive. I really want to send you my heater :/ But I have just enought right now for all my tanks T_T


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm going to preemptively call the medication company tomorrow to see if I can dose another time after I finish with the treatment. I don't know if that would hurt the fish more. Maybe I'm not giving the stuff enough time to work, but the fish's fins are SO COVERED and the fact that his gills are going really fast, that's usually a sign of breathing toubles and with Ick, that's usually a sign of the end. I really think that we caught this too late. And since I can't get the heat going in there, I can't speed these things up to get them to drop off and die. I have a feeling that they'll still be on the fish by the time the treatment ends. And even if I did speed them up, I think there are so many of them that they'd devour the fish!!!

It's scary how many of these things jumped onto the fish after I put the treatment in last night.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am so sorry i would try 3tsp/gall of aq salt if you can. You can put him in small container and let it float in the tank


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm wondering if this guy doesn't have both Ick and Velvet at the same time. His body is now covered in spots that look like flecks of powder. His tail has large purple round things in it surronded by the little tiny purple flecks. The ones in his tail look whiteish in normal light.

I wish I could get a good picture of him to show you guys what it looks like, but my camera just won't focus on him directly. It keeps focusing on the glass and this cheap camera won't let me turn the auto focus off.

The ick treatment I'm using is like a blue dye. Could it have dyed the ick if that's what this is?

I think I'm going to go behind my wife's back and go to target to get a cheap rubbermaid container to use as a hospital tank and then use that for the salt treatment. I don't think I want salt in the little guy's regular tank. Are those cheap plastic containers from stores like Target fish safe?

Also, another question. If this IS Velvet and not Ick, will the pesticide in the Ick treatment kill the Velvet too?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

usually for point and shoots. click half way to focus 
then move camera forward or backward to get the fish 
then snap


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Both of them are external parasites, so the medications will treat both . The same with salt. Do you have container that you bought betta in? You can use it. Or any container actually would be fine. Any plastic light container so it can float.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Velvet doesn't necessarily need to be gold in appearance, as several articles I have read state: "Odinium produces white pustules on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in ich". 

Don't give up hope, even if it looks like the disease has infected his gills. I had a very very nasty case of velvet go through one of my tanks and I lost two fish before I realised what was happening and everyone else was on death's door with big ulcers where they'd scratched themselves open. The medication (Protozin) I usually used had no effect and neither did raising the heat to 85 or so degrees. 

I eventually used a copper-based medication and that knocked the disease on its head. Everyone is back to normal now and show no ill-effects from the disease or the treatment. 

So hang in there. Sometimes things like ich and velvet seem to get worse before they get better.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Well. I've had ONE positive thing. His swim bladder problem is pretty much gone. He's no longer having any problem keeping his depth now. I gave him a pellet today and he hapily ate it. He's still hiding a lot because he's covered in those little parasites end to end.
I splashed out and bought a digital thermometer and an adjustable heater that I'm slowly increasing the tank temp with (my wife pretty much let me have it, but I don't care. I'm on a mission). I'm now watching the thermometer like a hawk to make sure that temps don't get too bad. I mistakenly plugged the thing in as soon as I put it in without acclimating the thing to the tank temp, but the tank was just a tiny bit under room temperature anyway. It's gone from 74 degrees up to about 78.9 as of my last check. I was reading on another web site that if the med needs more time, you can do a water change and then do another 4 day dose cycle with the API Super Ick Cure(hopefully without killing the fish). I also read that this product treats Velvet too so hopefully I'm set if the fishy can hold out. He's actually swimming around with a little more energy than I've seen him have in the past few days. 
I'll probably give him another pellet tonight before bed. Considering how before, he would bob to the surface like a cork, and the fact that I fasted him for almost two days, I think I want to ease him back in with the food. I don't want to plug him up again. 
I told my wife to feed our two fish not more than two to three pellets in one feeding and no more than 6 in a day. So hopefully, that'll keep the boy from getting a case of "The Floats" again.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Yay! heater! haha. work that baby slowly up to 86  if you ever see his parasites clear even a bit do an immediate 100% water change. use hot water to wash out everything and then re medicate.

I was going to tell you last time you said he seemed to have less spots, but then I thought "nah... let the guy breathe a bit" 

D: sorry...


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm going to follow the instructions and not do that water change till two days after the next dose.
The fishy seems more active now. I've actually seem him go up for air a few times in the past few hours where as before, it seemed like there was no fish in the tank. He gets his air, and then goes back into hiding under his bridge.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

just make sure vacuum the gravel every time to remove parasites from the tank so they don't reproduce. Raise temperature really slowly so you don't stress him out with sudden change. Not sure i would say 1-2* in an hour or two. Also i know that raising temperature will speed up parasites life cycle, but i also know that Oldfishlady wrote that high temperature can be very stressful on betta. She presently told me that when i pm her about that. So 82-84* would be fine fot the parasites. So i would say do 84* .
I am so glad he doing better. Sorry i feel bad that i never say anything positive. It just i am pessimistic,who expecting the good results. It works for me. You doing very good job for your little guy. I am glad your wife understand it and helps you at least to feed them. My husband feed my bettas every morning.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

*I'm getting confused.* One the treatment bottle, it says that I should do one treatment (with water change) and then 48 hours later, put another treatment in. It doesn't mention doing a water change with the second dose. Then 48 hours later, do a water change and put the filter cartridge back in. However, people here have been telling me to do a water change/vacume with the second dose. Wouldn't that dilute what we're trying to do?

*The other question I have is:* I have a few decorations in the 5 gallon tank as well as one of those small internal filters that looks like a cup as well as about an inch of gravel. Now these things, I imagine take up some water volume. I'm supposed to do 5ml of the treatment for 5 gallons. Should I knock down the amount I put in or just use the 5ml?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

doing a full water change gets rid of all free swimming parasite in your tank. in essence this is more effective.... alongside the medication.
mI explained the two dosage thing to you earlier. It's the same idea as you slowly increasing the temp for your betta as opposed to turnin it all the way up.
You need to acclimatize fish to new environments. in the situation of the medicine, you are allowing the fish to get used to a bit of the medicine first before going full strength. 

if you do a full water chane, simple redse the amount that's supposed to be in the water on the dosing schedule.


what the medicine is trying to do is to kill all of the little parasites swimming in the water. the medcine does nothing for the parasites already on the fish.

If you do a 100% water change you are manually removing the parasite ontop of the medication, and therefore this will add to the effectiveness of the treatmet.


usually medications do not advocate full water changes bexause the vast majority of aquarium fish cannot tolerant a complete water change...

remember this medicine is not made specificallyfor bettas but rather for a wide range of fish.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Okay. My second dose is in. It says to do a water change in two days. Would it make sense to take the little guy out of the tank and do a complete tear down/washing with some scalding hot water after this and then re-acclimate him into a brand new water system? provided he's free of Ick. I would assume if he still has some on him, I would probably do the water change and re-treat. It says nothing about re-treating on the bottle. 

I have his tank up to 79.5 degrees and I'm afraid to nudge the little knob up any more. That water is REALLY warm as it is. He used to sit on the heater all the time. This time, he's sitting on the opposite corner of the tank from it. I tried to warm up his tank a little at a time. I turned it up a little bit every half hour. He's a lot more active now. He comes out from under his little bridge to see me now instead of hiding under it and pressing himself against the wall inside. He's even sitting on the gravel away from the bridge now.
I think he hurt one of his side fins that he normally flaps with. He only flaps with one of them.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't know if he's "out of the woods" yet, but today, I've seen the first glimmer of his old personality again. Something I havn't seen in several days. Before, he was constantly just hiding under his bridge decoration and stuffing himself under other decorations and hiding. Now, he's actually swimming around and sitting at the bottom out in the open. He's definitely over his case of "The Floats" so I might try to get him back on his normal feeding schedule again in the morning.

If I can get him through this, all I'll have to worry about is getting his shredded tail to grow back. It's about half it's original length and doesn't look pretty any more.

Thank you guys for hand-holding me through this. I get really attached to my animals and this is totally a new experience for me. My wife is shaking her head at me for getting this upset and concerned over a two inch long fish.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

he's only flapping with one fin? is he breathing heavily...?

double check the accuracy of your thermometer. if you are sure that it is accurate, keep going up to 86. mever mind the water feeling warm. if the thermometer's right and he's not acting wrong because of the heat you can keep cranking it up toward 86. 86 isnt just any old random number, it's THE temperature to get rid of ich...


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

aokashi said:


> he's only flapping with one fin? is he breathing heavily...?
> 
> double check the accuracy of your thermometer. if you are sure that it is accurate, keep going up to 86. mever mind the water feeling warm. if the thermometer's right and he's not acting wrong because of the heat you can keep cranking it up toward 86. 86 isnt just any old random number, it's THE temperature to get rid of ich...


I don't want to cook the poor guy.

His gills are going a bit fast. I can see ick on the gill part he flares. Then again, he DID get all excited when I came over and he swam all over really fast. I may have to sneak up on him when he's just sitting calmly. He IS flapping with both fins when he needs to, but he seems to be favoring one. He's having no prblems swimming and getting around. He's real stable.
I'm not sure what contitutes fast gill movement. Want me to see how many times he opens his gills in a minute?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I forgot to ask, are you covering the tank up with a blanket? If it is velvet it can use photosynthesis so it is best to cover the tank completely with a blanket or towel. 

Also if your medication has malachite green in it, this is also light sensitive and can become ineffective if exposed to light.

Just an FYI as I learned this whilst dealing with my own ich/velvet problems.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The chemical in this thing is: Benzaldehyde Green and PVP, whatever that is.
The bottle says nothing about keeping light off it.
His tank light is out, anyway.

He's eating at least. I just gave him a pellet and he zoomed up and grabbed it.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

you wont cook him at 86F/30C, ask littlebettafish...
my fish has seen temps in the 90s. bettas are tropical fish. you ever been to thailand in summer?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I turned his heat up a little bit. 
I have this thing that looks like a leaf that attaches to the side with a suction cup that you put near the surface. He was being all cute and was sitting on it like it was a hammock.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

i agree about light ,and i agree about what ANHEL wrote about temperature- 84* is kind of enough.I would think even 82* is fine since it already healping him. Sometimes too warm is too stressful on fish.
And i agree with complete water change. And if you wash dicorations and everything in the tank with hot water and air dry it will kill any ich on it.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

sunlight... 86 should be perfectly fine for a betta fish. you ever tried it yourself...? summer temperatures here gets that hot. my fish was in the 90s all summer. not comparingmine to other fish out there. but I'm just saying. a few fish wont handle the temperature, and you should always keep an eye out. but generally speaking, i dont think a fish has been cooked yet at 86. it's not even body temperature, how can you cook anything?

and I'm going to say this one last time. you need 86F for the heat itself to be effective at actually getting rid of ich. It's a science. not a random number.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ich+reproduction+86&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

and if you are curious, go ask the breeder of this forum... Mo or Mr V, what temperature they grow their fry at. Mr V might even tell you 90F. I understand the concerns about cooking fish. but if your fish has not spazzed out/died or acted wierd/ stressed at 86F.... you really shouldnt make claims that it is too hot. Please try an help the poor fish with facts and not opinion...


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

wow you are too aggressive. But it fine with me lol I know you want best for the little guy. Believe me i want the same. And my opinion base on what i read from another post , actually same problem. I am not trying to say random things that came to my mind. Anyway i kind of agree with you and i agree with what i wrote so.....


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Lol, I'm not being aggresive at all. I've been trying to handhold the OP the entire way through thus thread and the random opinions that pop up in the middle really doesn't help  I've encountered both velvet and ich and have treated both successfully. I didn't use actual copper based medication for any of my treatments since most medication are harmful to fish anyway... infact for a few of my H. formosa frys, I threw them in a copepod jar and let the little creatures eat the parasites.

I'm not against medicine either. So I'm really tryig to help the OP with the best thing that he can do for his fish right now at te fastest cure. lower temps will also slow treatment, the fish will be even more stressed with a body full of parasites that wont fall off. 
temperature has an exponential effect on the lifecycle of the parasite and even 1 degrees difference can dramatically cut down the amount of time the paasites infects the fish. most bettas wont even feel the difference between 82 and 86F

There are many ways to cure ich... And I've tried most, from changin out the water daily, to not changing out the water at all for my planted tank, and both have worked... but temperature is crucial.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The latest update: The little guy has lost a lot of his color. He's pale and his skin is almost transparent. His tail is half of what it was yesterday and it has a big log split right down the middle right to his body. 
I fed him two pellets just now and he ate them. He's still actively swimming around. His gills are still going fast but then again, he got excited when I went near the tank so I don't know if it's breathing problems or if he was just excited.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well... medication is toxic unfortunately and does negatively impact your fish.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I hope he makes it through this okay. I'm not supposed to do the water change till tomorrow night.
I read elsewhere on the net that this med wasn't supposed to negatively impact the fish.

Could the color change be because I was fasting him for a few days? Or because I have the light out in his tank so it's pretty dark?

From the way he seemed like he was turning the corner last night to today... it's a roller coaster ride. The positive thing is that he's still swimming okay and he was eating. He's still completely covered with ick though. If he's not better by tomorrow night, he's getting a hospital tank to get him out of his tank.

The tank is going to get a complete tear down/sanitization, I think.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

fishs colors fade when stressed...

here is a quote on malachite green which your medicine contains:

"Malachite green is highly toxic to fish. Lethal concentrations for fish and recommended therapeutic concentrations are sometimes very close to each other (Svobodova and Vykusova, 1997). The progress of intoxication is very rapid and very much alike in both the common carp and rainbow trout. Typical clinical symptoms include restlessness and uncoordinated movements of the fish in the tank."

the entire paper can be found here
http://www.agriculturejournals.cz/publicFiles/00491.pdf


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Oh. Nice. So I've been blatantly lied to by the company that made it.

When I get this tank up to 86 degrees, how long do I leave it at that temp before turning it down again. I've seen a couple places that recommend getting the temperature up to that, for a short time and then decreasing it and then bringing it up again in a cycle. Every hour or so, I'm popping the temp up a little bit.

Man. I really hope the fishy pulls through this.
Do you recommend that I do a water change to lessen the intensity of the chemical, or should I stay the course per the instructions on the med bottle?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

If you leave it at that temp he will get used to it be less stressed by a random fluctuation...

And yes companies do lie to you. like the label at the back of fish food that says "feed as much as fish will eat in 3 minutes". My fish would eat half the bottle of fish food in that time if his stomach were big enough...

Just cover his tank... and let the medicine do its miracle. if his situation does worsen, I recommend to take him off the medicine and treat with 2tsp/gallon aquarium salt (predissolve the salt). Do half daily water changes, and nuke his environment with hot water after each clean, scrub down the walls... best to put him in a smaller container floated in the tank as this will be less work for you, and much easier to not miss a spot when cleaning


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

He's still actively swimming. He's not jumping or looking like he's going crazy. He's just lost his color (and his poor tail). I'm probably going to splash out for a kritter keeper 1 gallon tank , behind my wife's back (I'm on a mission, damn it!!!), to do salt/heat treatment after this just to try to destress him. Is it more likely the heat increase or the chemical or both that's stressing the poor guy? I wonder if I'm turning the heat up too quickly or too much at each increment.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I read that keeping the water this hot can cause the water to lose oxygen and it was recommended to get an airstone to help. Is that something that I need to do with bettas to aid in the breathing of is he just going to gulp air at the surface as needed?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Bettas hardly take in any oxygen through their gills, which is why they will drown if access is cut off from the surface.

You could add an airstone in for peace of mind if you want but he should be fine as long as he is strong enough to get up to the surface to breathe.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

lol! just concentrate on the ich! you're worrying urself silly 
you dont need a gallon tank for treatment. a lunch box will do fine. as along as the water is frquently changes out. you can keep a gallon bottle around with prmixed water with Aq salt for that purpose.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

He wasn't much interested in eating. He ate two pellet and lost interest in the third one. He's super pale.

A lot of the larger ick spots are gone now. There's just a ton of the smaller ones remaining on his tail and body but they seem to have a little less concentration than before. His side flappy fins are are still completely covered in spots. He is still swimming okay. He seems tired though.

His poor tail is a tiny teardrop shape now. 8(


If I use epsom salt, it's still that 2 tsp per gallon?

I can't believe how fast he went from this beautiful looking fish to this poor, pathetic, sickly thing. I wish my wife had told me about the spots on him sooner. This would probably have been easier to treat. If he comes back from this alive, I'm going to consider it a miracle.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

epsom is for internal problems like bloat. you should use aquarium salt. it will also help relieve his breathing a little.
If the ich seems to be gone... do a large water change clean out the entire tank with hot water. you can at this point, empty out all the substrate. and leave the tank bare. fill with 1 gallon of water at 86F.

while you are doing all this, make sure to keep the fish warm...

lay the heater horizontally to keep it submerged. watch the temperature closely for the first hour and make sure the tank remains at 86

acclimatise the betta to the correct temperature...gently pour out most of the old tank water that is with the fish and then let the fish into the tank. 

The decreased amount of water is to allow the betta expend less energy to breathe

Whether you choose to used meds or Aq salt is up to you


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Well he's got a long way to go for the ick to be gone. I think I am going to get a cheap critter keeper. I measured and it will fit that heater and I have a clip on 16 ounce breeder tank to get him temperature acclimated. Tomorrow night is when I'm supposed to do the water change and end treatment. If he still has the ick on him, he's going into the kritter keeper under high heat and aquarium salt. Then, his whole 5 gallon tank is going to get broken down and sanitized with super hot water. I want that thing steril for when either he goes back in there or in the event of his death, when new fish go in there.

It will probably be good just to have that kritter keeper around for emergencies anyway. I found a one gallon one for like $9


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

okie dokies. the poor thing


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Our girl is doing beautiful. Hehehe.
I heard my wife scream while feeding her. Apparently, she watched my wife drop the pellet and she jumped up a good inch and caught the thing out of mid air when it was less than a couple centimeters below my wife's fingers.

I assume that acclimating the fish to the salt tank is going to involve slowly introducing salt water to the little clip on cup I use for heat acclimation for a while?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

awesome! lolol now if only my plakat isnt semi blind, he'd be able to do the same thing too! 
jellie~~~


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

It's funny. We feed the girl 5 pellets a day. when you get through feeding her the two or three pellets depending, I could swear that she begs for more and then literally SULKS and throws a temper tantrum when we don't give her any more.

She begs like a freakin' dog. And she seems to like to play a lot. Life is very exciting for her.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I love these fish's personalities. When I'm doing a trim, mine's so curious I have to chase him around and smack him when he gets too close to my tools. then he hides and I get half a minute of peaceful trimming before the scenario repeats again.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

With personalties like this, how the hell do they manage to stay alive in the wild? Our girl would happily swim into an open fish's mouth just because she would want to see what was in there.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

XD betta splendens are a "domesticated" species of bettafish  you wont find them in the wild  having all those fancy colors is like saying... come eat me!!!


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I ask myself that whenever one of my bettas does something stupid. 

I even own wild-caught bettas and they do the same stupid things. I have lost track of the amount of times I have accidentally sucked someone up the siphon, or have had someone jump out at me and land on the floor, or get themselves somehow stuck somewhere. 

The saying 'curiosity killed the cat' seems an apt description of a betta's personality!

Haha you posted at the same time. Trust me though, even wild bettas can be surprisingly dumb.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Status check on the poor little sickie. 
He's orange now instead of the bright red he used to be. There's a LOT less of the big ick spots on him. He still has a lot of little ones on him. It looks like someone sprinkled very fine salt on him.

He's still swimming fine and he swam over to check me out. He's a little lethargic. He's still breathing heavy.

His water temp is fluctuating between 83 and 84 and that seems to be the max this heater can do.

Around midnight tomorrow ends his medication treatment and I have to water change. I don't think that it's going to be enough time to get that ick off him unless they all drop off in a day. 

Tomorrow morning, I'm getting that one gallon hospital tank for him to use that for his salt water bath so I can do a thorough tear down and sanitizing of the main tank... if he survives the night.

I've been told that Bettas don't tolerate aquarium salt very well for certain periods of time. How long is safe to put him in there with the salt? 
Hopefully the salt won't stress him more than he already is.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

they tolerate it just fine. but a safe margin of 10 days was set so people dont keep them in there indefinitely...


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm staying the course and praying.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I ask myself that whenever one of my bettas does something stupid.
> 
> I even own wild-caught bettas and they do the same stupid things. I have lost track of the amount of times I have accidentally sucked someone up the siphon, or have had someone jump out at me and land on the floor, or get themselves somehow stuck somewhere.
> 
> ...


Haha. Our girl would probably find the "Magic Siphon Waterslide" fun. She'd yell the fish equivalent of "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" as she went through with the personality she has. My wife had trouble keeping her from playing with it while she was vacuuming.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a new problem. My betta's ick treatment is over. I put him in an acclimation tank to put into a one gallon kritter keeper with a 1/2 tsp of salt. I used a small clip on breeder tank for this. Shortly after I started slowly introducing the salt water to the acclimation tank, he fell to the bottom and laid on his side breathing heavy. I took him out of that and put him in a fresh treated water and he came back. He won't acclimate to the salt water at all. So I now have him in the kritter keeper in fresh treated water. The problem is he still has ick on him and he seems really intolerant to the aquarium salt. 

I emptied the salt water out of the kritter keeper and put a 1/2 gallon of fresh treated water with the adjustable heater in there and he's in there now. He still has some ick on him.. but less than he had before. He's lost a LOT of color.
What's my next step when the fish won't do the salt water?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

you can use mediction again./../,.
did you:
1) allow the salt to dissovle in another container before putting it in bit by bit?

2) put in 1/2 a TEAspoon (not tablespoon)
3) use water conditioner?


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## 914joe (Jul 21, 2012)

No pic's in this entire thread,why not post a pic i think it would have been very helpful in diagnosing your fishes problems.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Here's a picture of the poor little guy in his hospice tank.
The medication in his main tank was killing him.

This is the procedure I used:
1. I put one gallon of water into the kritter Keeper.
2. I treated the water.
3. I scooped some of the treated water out with a small clip on breeder tank that I hang in tanks to acclimate fish to temperatures.
4. I added 1/2 tsp of aquarium salt to the water that was left in the kritter keeper and stirred it till it disolved.
5. I placed the heater in the kritter keeper and heated the water up properly.
6. I placed the fish in the breeder tank and placed it in the kritter keeper until it's temperature matched that of the salt water in the keeper.
7. Every hour I took 1/2 a shot glass of water from the salt water of the Kritter Keeper and slowly poured it into the breeder tank.
8. After the fourth pour, he immediately siezed up and fell to the bottom laying on his side breathing heavy. 
9. I got him into an emergency fish bowl with fresh treated water that was the same temp as the water he was in. He slowly recovered.
10. I emptied the salt water out of the kritter keeper and filled it up with treated fresh water. I re-acclimated him temperature wise with the breeder tank and put him back into the keeper. This time, I only filled the keeper up with 1/2 gallon of water. He was active for a while.
11. I've been slowly increasing the temperature every hour with the goal of getting him to 85 degrees. He's growing very listless now in the heat. He moves when I poke him, but he doesn't want to eat. He just kind of stays in one of the corners near the surface. He also doesn't want to eat.











This is the best pic I could get of him. My camera is HORRIBLE. It only has an auto focus with no way to turn it off and it has no macro setting. The damn thing focuses on the side of the tank and not the fish. I REALLY TRIED to get a clear pic of him but this was the best of the 10 or so shots I tried.

He still has some ick on him though it's less than before. He's lost all his color as you can see there. He used to be brilliant red. He lost all his color and got really listless after I put that second dose of anti-ick meds in his main tank.
Before I treated him with the meds, he was still bright red. I think I probably killed him with the chemicals.

He's pretty much picking a corner and just floating at the surface just like this with his nose poked into the corner.

Is there a chance that the heat going up is stressing him too?
I think if he makes it through tonight, it will be amazing.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I think he's on his last leg  
if he is that affected bu half a tsp of salt... there probably isnt much you can dio your him any more T____T

you did ise Aquarium salt right? not table salt?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm just nervous because his water feels like warm bathwater and it's not even up to 85 degrees yet. I'm really afraid the heat might be too much for him.

I used aquarium salt.

I think I killed him with the Ick treatment. I think that he just couldn't take the chemical. He went downhill so fast after I put that treatment in.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

The only thing I can hope for is that being in a tank of fresh water will detoxify him... if the ick doesn't get him. That treatment did an OK job but he's still got ick on him and he definitely can't take another round of chemo-therapy.
There's a single uneaten pellet in there that I couldn't get out if he decides to eat which I doubt. 
I'm going to leave him alone tonight and see if he improves to any degree tomorrow. Then, I might try doing the salt thing again. Maybe I'll add a little more than a gallon of water and dilute the 1/2 tsp of salt in that. The salt would be a little more diluted. Maybe it was just too concentrated when I was pouring it in.

That is.. if he makes it through the night.
I just noticed that he started actively swimming around the tank a bit.
I'm not giving up till it's over.
I still feels like I'm cooking him with the heater. I've never, ever had a fish tank up this warm.

The main tank is getting everything out of it and everything is going to get scrubbed with scalding hot water.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a question about making sure we don't infect our other tank. We have a single gravel siphon that we use for both tanks. If we just leave it to dry, will that kill any parasites that happen to have gotten onto it or should I wash the thing out with salt water? I don't want to infect our girl's tank and her water change/vacume time is coming up tomorrow and the boy with this Ick in his tank was the last tank that it was used on (last Sunday)

Those things don't form cysts that can survive out of water do they?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

Fishy is dead. He got himself stuck under the heater and didn't unstuck himself.

Now I have to detoxify the tank. I can't say I didn't try.

Okay. How do we clean out this tank that had ick in it properly so that the bastards don't come back.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I'd just like to thank everyone for their help. I can't say that I didn't try.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

it's not very hard to sanitize a parasite infection. simply wash everything out very thoroughly with hot water. let it all dryout, leave it for a day or two and you should be good to go.

when you do get a new fish, quarantine him in the kritter keeper with salt for 10 days. just a preventative measure to get rid of anything you cant see.
ich is very common, and really no fish should die from it, but the sad thing is, we sometimes catch it too late.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

+1
So sorry you really did everything you could You guys stay all morning trying to help little guy.
Parasites dies without host so just like oakashi said wash with hot water and let it sit for a few days to COMPLETELY dry out .


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I just checked on our female who has been fine. I can't tell if it's a single scale that's just a different color on her back or a single ick spot. I can't get her to sit still long enough to REALLY check it. You can only really see it when she's facing certain directions. It's up behind her head on her spine.

Maybe a false alarm. It looks like it's under the scale when looking from the top. Maybe a scar from something?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well give her a little salt treatment for now...

and if she reacts badly to the salt. I think something is wrong with the salt...


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

are you using unsent aq salt ?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I am using aquarium salt that says on it that it's safe for freshwater tanks.

My wife got a good look at it and she says that it looks like it's a single scale that came off her back. You can only see it from certain angles so maybe it's like a scale that got pushed up. When she looks at you dead on, you can't see it. You can only see it when her side or back is facing you. My wife doesn't think it's ick. We're going to keep a really close eye on it and her. At the fist sign of anything else out of the ordinary, IMMEDIATE salt bath in the kritter keeper. 
I'm not sure, but I think I noticed it before when we first got her. I'm wondering if it might be a scar... maybe she was in a communal tank of females and got bitten at the breeders'. My wife is right. It does kind of look like a single missing scale.

My wife just washed EVERYTHING from the tank, including the gravel siphon that we need to use on Sunday for the girl's tank (water change is due), in boiling hot water. It was enough to turn the resin decorations into soft maleable things. I would assume that would kill any ick cysts that could be on them. We're drying everything now.

I'm praying that using the water siphon in both the infected tank, and the non infected tank (after being rinsed with scalding hot water and done 24 hours apart from each other didn't transfer any parasites to the girl's tank. Now, however, if I spot any more spots on the girl's body beyond that one, I'll KNOW something is up and I'll know what to do and this time, I'm not using the poison. Just heat and salt from now on.

My wife also wants to use the "good adjustable heater" that I got for the infected tank in the tank where our surviving fish is. She washed the hell out of it with super hot tap water and we're drying it overnight. Just erring on the side of caution... should we be okay with doing this? Is there no chance that the ick would survive that much hot water and then the drying?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

That salt should be fine just make sure it unsent. I think it should say on the box . 
I hope you wife is right. If it was there before and she has it for long time then it might be fine. If more scales falling then it can be a problem, so i guess keep eye on her. But if her scale came off it might be something different than ick. Aquarium salt still recommended though. Is she in the smaller tank? How much/often you do water changes? If she has some kind of damage you need to ensure that she has super clean water to prevent infections. 
And you didn't share anything between your other fish and her right?


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

She's in a 5 gallon tank. The sick betta succumbed to ICK and passed last night despite my pleading and application of fish CPR. (The fish literally died in my wife's hand. She watched his gills stop and his eyes glaze and go white while I was so upset that I could hardly handle being in the same room. Yeah. I know. Over a little two inch long fish.)

The only thing that got shared between tanks was the gravel siphon, and the scoop net. Both of which got washed in hot water before and after they went into each tank. And we didn't use the siphon on the tanks on the same day. My wife did the water change on the girl's tank on Saturdays, and the change on the boy's tank on Sundays and she ran scalding hot water through the siphon after each use.

The tank has yet to start cycling. My wife is doing water changes on it once a week. The Ammonia levels are still 0 and the PH is fine.
She still seems like a REALLY REALLY happy, and excitable fish. We're not seeing any behavioral warning signs.


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

How long does it usually take for a scale to grow back?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

a week to a month. really depends on the individual fish


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## Blacklight (Oct 11, 2012)

I really loved the little guy and to see him go like this was devastating. It's really stupid that I got this upset over a freakin' two inch fish and I realize that, but I tend to get VERY attached to my pets when I have them. 
I had never, ever had a fish like this. I've never seen a fish that had such a personality (and bodysurfs above the water like this guy used to like doing when he was healthy). 
I've never been attached to a fish before. This is the strangest thing. I invested so much effort into trying to save the poor guy. I guess I just got emotionally involved. Yes. Over a two inch, $3 fish. Go figure.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It really not stupid you did what everyone should do. And i read the same story's all the time on the forum.And tell you the truth i am an extreme animal lover and i love my bettas the same way i love my dog and cat. So you emotions are understandable . How is your other betta?


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