# Another forumn says 82 degrees is high for my betta



## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Haha sure like i would ever trust them 82 degrees is perfect for them they tell me to change it to 76 haha nope


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Ahhh just my opinion but I'd agree unless you're breeding..


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

82 is a bit high for fish unless breeding - as Olympia said. 

I keep my tanks around 78-80. Some do say that 76 is okay for bettas. Personally, I do not think 76 is good but its just my own opinion. 

The only way Id ever raise the temperature above 80 is if I was curing Ick or another illness that required a high temperature. 

I should note that during the summer months my tanks do get to 85-86 and there is really nothing I can do to fix that. I live in a tiny nyc apartment with only one wall with windows so I don't get any air circulation. I only turn in window AC unit on when I'm home to save money so during the day when I'm out or at work my apartment gets hot. 85-86 is fine for bettas so I don't really do anything to try to fix it.


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

It is a bit high unless you're treating ich or breeding.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I do agree. My limit is 80 for my fish, but unless I'm treating ich or when I breed I set my heater to 82 degrees max


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I have a high ph so I tend to keep my tanks around 74-76f. Free ammonia becomes much more toxic the higher the PH, higher the temperature and the lower the salinity.


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## Ilovebettasbk11 (Nov 12, 2013)

Ah well he is happy anyways thats all that matters to me


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

actually when you have higher temperatures that means that your fish's metabolism will be quicker and it actually shortens their lifespans.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

My female stress stripes if her temperature drops below 78. My male doesn't seem to like it above 80.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

Mine are usually 81 to 82 and seem quite content with this. Can't _quite _get the heat tape to keep the perfect temperature.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I see no problem in keeping temps at 82F. Both of my betta tanks are between 80 and 82F. As well as my 75 gallon of angels. If the tanks drop below 80F all fish get stressed. Decreased life span? Please, show me proof on that. I've had bettas since I was a pre-teen and I, personally, have happier and healthier bettas in tanks 80-82F.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Well it's a basic fact of biology and common knowledge of fish keeping and breeding. You could easy find a mass amount of information relating to it with a simple online search.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I imagine a higher water temperature speeds up the metabolism of the fish and shortens their lifespan. I know this is the case with species such as medaka. However, just how much of an effect a warmer temperature has on the longevity of fish, especially tropical fish, I don't know. 

I personally keep my wild bettas at around 23-25 degrees Celsius and my one Betta splendens at around 25-26 degrees Celsius.


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

It does shorten their lifespan to be in warmer temperatures. The question is whether that's a serious issue, or not. I am not deeply concerned about a degree or two. The fish are active, healthy, and eat with good appetites.

I am going to ask on the IBC page to see how much of a difference it makes, though. Odds are, someone has the data available.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Again, I'd like to see proof that warmer temps shortens the lifespan of a tropical fish.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

IMO/E... 82 is fine, but is about as high as you would want to go for long term maintenance. 

Nothing magical is going to happen as soon as the temperature goes over eighty degrees, there's no real reason to have a solid "limit" if the temperature stays relatively stable and is within the well established and recognized healthy range of about 78-82 degrees. If kept on the warmer side the fish's metabolism will quicken and as others have said its lifespan will likely decrease, but whether or not this would be significant in an already short lived fish I don't know. A theory on why some people can maintain bettas in unheated, dirty bowls or vases for so long is that at a low temperature the metabolism slows and the fish has a longer life, although it would be a poorer quality of life. It's worth noting that when compared to the majority of other tropical fish bettas have a high tolerance for heat. 

Breeders often keep their tanks hot by these standards... I've seen it suggested by top breeders that are indisputably great and successful at what they do to keep fry at 84 degrees, and drop that a bit once they are mature. The higher temperatures makes the fish grow faster... Once again supporting the idea that high temps speed metabolism. That's fry, but it's still a lengthy period of time at high temps... Without harm. 

If your fish is active, healthy, and within an acceptable temperature range (usually about 76-82, ideally close to 78), I wouldn't be concerned about one or two degrees.

Fishy- Here's a fairly easy to read (or at least the "Survivorship" part is, which is what we're looking at) study that shows the different lifespans in a short lived killifish species when raised at different temperatures- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1474-9726.2009.00525.x/full


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

The feedback I am getting from other breeders/owners is that if it makes a difference for bettas, it doesn't seem to make that _much _of a difference at the 76-82 range. Good food, clean water and proper care make far more of an impact on lifespan than a slight variation in temperature.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/f91-065

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleCare.htm


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## hrutan (Jun 25, 2014)

I hate to say this, but...

Article #1 is unavailable without a subscription & relates to breeding rather than mature fish lifespans.

Article #2 does not give any data on the actual duration of life shortened by high temperatures, doesn't cite its source, and is about a different species of fish with different temperature requirements. It also notes the increased health of the fish at higher temperatures as a trade-off for shortened lifespan.

I do not doubt that the boost to the metabolism that is created by higher temperatures shortens the life of the fish. However, as long as the temperatures are within the "normal" range, this doesn't appear to be a bad thing, given the trade off for health benefits.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Whenever the fish is at its happiest and healthiest works for me, I don't like to think when they are going to pass on. The present is something to enjoy, I like letting the future be mysterious


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I am not sure why I can open it and you can't. Weird.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

1. Yes, higher temperatures will increase metabolism and thus shorten life. 
2. However, betta are already genetically weak due to selective breeding. 
3. Odds are that one of a thousand other things will kill your betta before he falls victim to a premature death due to warmer waters.

Caveat: I'm still uncertain if warmer waters (i.e. breeding temps) and plentiful food increases the occurrence of egg-binding in female betta. 

For inquiring minds:
Ambient temperature influences aging in an annual fish (Nothobranchius rachovii). Hsu and Chiu, 2009.

Temperature affects longevity and age-related locomotor and cognitive decay in the short-lived fish Nothobranchius furzeri. Valenzano et al, 2006.

The effects of temperature reduction on gene expression and oxidative stress in skeletal muscle from adult zebrafish. Malek et al, 2004.

Edit: Olympia, it's a Canadian publisher. It's probably public access to you since your tax dollars pay for the research. Not so much for those of us south of the border! I can't open it either.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Olympia said:


> An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
> 
> General Care of Angelfish


Very much appreciate the time you took to go fetch some articles.

But the 1st article seems to pertain to marine fish. That is a bit different from a freshwater tropical fish like the Betta.

The 2nd article is about Angelfish. While both are tropical fish, the angelfish is an omnivore whereas the betta is a carnivore. A different diet may play a role? That said, the article still states that with a high quality diet and care the fish remains very healthy and finds that to be a better trade off than a low or moderate quality life. Perhaps it would depend on the individual's point of view? Personally, I feed and care for my fish with the highest quality of products. Tanks are all planted and are to the point that if I went on vacation for a month, everyone would still be alive and healthy, i'll bet ravaging for food, but still alive and happy.(that said, I wouldn't purposely leave them a month without someone reliable to feed them)


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

I've still yet figured out how a high metabolism equals shorter lifespan. A high metabolism in a human doesn't equal a shorter lifespan(though we have many many more dangers we encounter daily).


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Odd that some of you cannot open it but I was able to O.O


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

FishyFishy89 said:


> I've still yet figured out how a high metabolism equals shorter lifespan. A high metabolism in a human doesn't equal a shorter lifespan(though we have many many more dangers we encounter daily).


Actually, yes it does. Since we're warmblooded, environmental temperature doesn't play as much of a role in our metabolic rate. Instead caloric restriction while still meeting nutritional requirements (eating way less) seems to be the biggest factor.

Papers I'm too sleepy to scan through: click me

Edit: We (US public) can only access the abstract, not the full paper. Unless you're on an academic campus that bought a license to access that journal.


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## FishyFishy89 (Jul 3, 2011)

Zhylis said:


> Actually, yes it does. Since we're warmblooded, environmental temperature doesn't play as much of a role in our metabolic rate. Instead caloric restriction while still meeting nutritional requirements (eating way less) seems to be the biggest factor.
> 
> Papers I'm too sleepy to scan through: click me
> 
> Edit: We (US public) can only access the abstract, not the full paper. Unless you're on an academic campus that bought a license to access that journal.


But HOW? That is what I am trying to figure out. HOW does metabolism play a role in one's lifespan?


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

The how of it would be if you had a set number of times your heart will beat before you die, if it's beating fast all the time you'll die sooner. If it's beating slowly all the time, it'll take longer to reach that number. It's a theory I saw on tv years and years ago, so it's probably been disproven. 

If it's true, it would explain why a betta will live in a dirty, unheated 1/4 gallon tank at my kiddo's school for 4+ years. It does not explain the person on here who has a 5 year old betta in a comfortable, heated tank or the person who had a betta for 7 years.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

We're getting a bit off-topic here but briefly...

Think of the body as a machine.
"Aging" is the accumulation of unrepaired mutations and damage that cause it to run inefficiently.

This damage comes from two major sources: metabolism and replication

Your metabolism powers the machine, but in the process of generating energy, it also generates byproducts that cause damage (free radicals, reactive oxygen species).

Your cells (except for stem cells) can only divide a limited number of times. Each progressive cell accumulates more and more mutations, which leads to additional damage until that cell lineage can no longer function and dies.

One of the ideas is that if you slow the metabolism, you reduce the amount of damage and slow the number of a cell divides. If you slow enough cells in an organism, you have a better chance of living longer. This holds true at the level of a population or if everyone has the exact same DNA and generates the exact same damage at the exact same spot. Individuals within that population can vary by quite a lot. Consider that not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer. Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer, but it doesn't guarantee it.

Edit: Also, not my field of research, so that's my general understanding...


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## Warhawk (Feb 23, 2014)

None of my tanks are 82, I keep all my tanks 76-78. I look at it the warmer the water the lest oxygen so why make it more stressful for the fish.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Outstanding explanation, Zhylis. And thanks for the links.

I think that, within a reasonable range of temperatures, genetics plays a more determinative role than temperature on a single fish's longevity. 

I don't think an experiment could be set-up that could reify the variations in genetics, let alone environmental conditions, food quality and amount, stress S/N and the hundreds of other variables that determine longevity. The results would be a statistical guess, a range of conclusions not applicable to individual fish.

Great discussion, though. ;-}


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