# ID'ing Bettas



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

My second time posting, lately i've been getting more into Betta and i have commented on some posts here. 

While i already know what type of tails they are, I also wanted to know the coloration of my Betta if you guys can help with that. 

-I just bought the black metallic guy today, he's really small and cool 

-The white one has been with me for quite some times, but his color doesn't change much so i'm trying to change their diets with baby brine shrimp (previously very cheap pellets), I swear in my bare eyes he got dark blue lines but once the light is off i just noticed that it looks red, very suspicious  

-The white/blue/red one has a blank spot in his tails, is it a disease? or a tail biting problem? and is he a rosetail by any chance? 

Feel free to comment here, helps me reassure the identity of my Betta, or just appreciate the beauty of all of them! 
Thanks Guys!





































Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------



## hiprasojo (Sep 21, 2020)

Hey, you’re from Indonesia? 
I have the same black betta like yours, color wise it will always stays black (black samurai i presumed?). If you want to breed black fish i suggest you consult with our mod, Indjo. His last project is black betta.

The white betta is offspring from koi i think? How old is this fish? Do you know what color of the parent? i breed koi x koi and some of the fry look alike yours and most of it turn to cellophane when still going thru color mutation process. Most of them are red colored.

The blank is not a disease as far as i know, it just lack of color. In time it will change to black or red depending on the color trait. Is it dragon? Most traders in Indo will say this is FCCP Betta. CMIIW.

Anyway, nice collections!. Feed them with Aqualife betta pellet (or Mem Prime) mixed with powdered spirulina (i use spirulim brand) and add catappa leaves into the tank to help speed up the color enhancement process.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

Hi! Yes i am from Indonesia! West Kalimantan to be exact. 



hiprasojo said:


> I have the same black betta like yours, color wise it will always stays black (black samurai i presumed?). If you want to breed black fish i suggest you consult with our mod, Indjo. His last project is black betta.


Hmm... i have to figure it out in some months or so if he showed development in his colors and size, and i currently am in senior year in high school and i'll be out of the city in some months for college, so i'll see how the situation develops first (whether it will be online or offline class, if it's offline/onsite class i of course won't have enough time to manage the fryes). But i feels that breeding black betta is cool, so i will try it in the not-so-near-future. 



hiprasojo said:


> The white betta is offspring from koi i think? How old is this fish? Do you know what color of the parent? i breed koi x koi and some of the fry look alike yours and most of it turn to cellophane when still going thru color mutation process. Most of them are red colored.


I can't exactly say what his parent's color, because i bought it off a whole-saler, not from a farm. Judging from the size he's maybe 3-4 months old. I thought he is a blue rim at first, but he started to show some feckles on his body so i'm gonna wait and see. 



hiprasojo said:


> The blank is not a disease as far as i know, it just lack of color. In time it will change to black or red depending on the color trait. Is it dragon? Most traders in Indo will say this is FCCP Betta. CMIIW.


I honestly dont really know about colors in betta as im more of a tail guy, but it's cool if he is a FCCP, his thick scale is really cool and i kinda think he's a dragon. Btw, what i mean a blank spot is not the cellophane like-colorless side of the tails, more of one line on the tails that really dissapear (there are no tail) you can see it in the last picture.



hiprasojo said:


> Anyway, nice collections!. Feed them with Aqualife betta pellet (or Mem Prime) mixed with powdered spirulina (i use spirulim brand) and add catappa leaves into the tank to help speed up the color enhancement process.


Thankyou! I'm currently using a baby brime shrimp as their main diet, and i will buy a new pellet tommorow the price is 55k Rupiah so i think it's enough for my babies. 

Thanks for the comments bro 😁, i think i will updates this threads from time to time to show improvements that my bettas made in the future.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

dec1mallll said:


> Hi! Yes i am from Indonesia! West Kalimantan to be exact.
> 
> 
> Hmm... i have to figure it out in some months or so if he showed development in his colors and size, and i currently am in senior year in high school and i'll be out of the city in some months for college, so i'll see how the situation develops first (whether it will be online or offline class, if it's offline/onsite class i of course won't have enough time to manage the fryes). But i feels that breeding black betta is cool, so i will try it in the not-so-near-future.
> ...


Oh i forgot to add that: 
I already use Methylene Blue in the water, is it also recommended to mix it with catappa leaves?
And i also have Spirulim but i dont know how to use it, do i just mix it with the pellets (let the spirulina stick to the pellet) and use it as a food?


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The black lines in the last are a part of his normal color pattern.

Are the scales on the last as thick as on the Samurai? Black Samurai are, at least in the US, called partial dragons because the thick scales only cover part of the body.


----------



## hiprasojo (Sep 21, 2020)

dec1mallll said:


> Oh i forgot to add that:
> I already use Methylene Blue in the water, is it also recommended to mix it with catappa leaves?
> And i also have Spirulim but i dont know how to use it, do i just mix it with the pellets (let the spirulina stick to the pellet) and use it as a food?


I add catappa leaves 24 hrs after i put methylene blue and, yes, that’s how you mix pellets. The mix ratios is varies but i usually add 100gr of spirulum to 1kg of pellets. Instead of baby brine, why don’t you use water fleas?


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> The black lines in the last are a part of his normal color pattern.
> 
> Are the scales on the last as thick as on the Samurai? Black Samurai are, at least in the US, called partial dragons because the thick scales only cover part of the body.


i will show and zoom on what i meant by blank part of the tail in the attachment, so we can be clear. 

Hmm... i dont think the scales is as thick as on the Samurai, but i think his front scale isn't as thick as his back scale considering the back scale have hexagonal pattern, while the front doesnt 

Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

the center of the sphere shows enough of the "blank spot" of the tail, the tail really isn't there from the time i bought him 









Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

hiprasojo said:


> I add catappa leaves 24 hrs after i put methylene blue and, yes, that’s how you mix pellets. The mix ratios is varies but i usually add 100gr of spirulum to 1kg of pellets. Instead of baby brine, why don’t you use water fleas?


I used dried bbs because people said it's the best food to improve colors in Betta, and because i can't get water fleas here. (maybe i'll buy starter culture but not for now) 

Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I must apologize: I misread and instead of "blank" I read "black."

Looks as if your lovely boy has a minor caudal split. The IAL will help prevent fungal or bacterial infections. Sometimes they heal quickly and sometimes it takes a while.

I think this boy is metallic instead of a dragon. He could start changing colors, too.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I must apologize: I misread and instead of "blank" I read "black."
> 
> Looks as if your lovely boy has a minor caudal split. The IAL will help prevent fungal or bacterial infections. Sometimes they heal quickly and sometimes it takes a while.
> 
> I think this boy is metallic instead of a dragon. He could start changing colors, too.


hmm... about metallic, his scale just doesn't do much when i flash it tbh even rather dull for me, it doesn't change color depending on angle/lighting too. I have a metallic betta but he's currently sick (either fin biting or fin rot) and currently getting fully rested, so i'll also post him when he's much better. So in conclusion i'm still really confused about this halfmoon (rosetail-look-alike) mysterious blue/white/red/black fish' indentity

Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

When he fully flares does his caudal have a full 180 degree spread so that you could draw a circle around it? If not, he's a Delta Tail (DeT) or somewhere between a DeT and HM. Like the DeT below, he has a lot of web reduction but I don't see him as a FT (second photo). Wait a bit to see if his color changes. With marbles, I try to take a photo once a week because sometimes the changes are subtle.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> When he fully flares does his caudal have a full 180 degree spread so that you could draw a circle around it? If not, he's a Delta Tail (DeT) or somewhere between a DeT and HM. Like the DeT below, he has a lot of web reduction but I don't see him as a FT (second photo). Wait a bit to see if his color changes. With marbles, I try to take a photo once a week because sometimes the changes are subtle.
> 
> View attachment 1022466
> 
> ...


I edited his fully flaring picture to match shadow/contrast to fully show his black-cello tail more clearly, i also added half a circle into the picture. It looks kinda like this 








as you can see it's not really 180' so i was wrong saying that he was a halfmoon. Indeed he is a Delta Tail, but i can see him going to be Halfmoon in the future by looking at the ruffled part of the tail which i hope is a sign (another way to say i hope that he will become halfmoon, lol) I'm not so sure if he had marble genes or not because i bought him a month ago and he didn't show any changes, but it's also cool if he has it. The more my bettas can amaze me, the more i love them.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I certainly agree with that last sentence. He is a Betta anyone should be pleased to have.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

> While i already know what type of tails they are, I also wanted to know the coloration of my Betta if you guys can help with that.


This is based on my understanding of genetics, not according to popular name/s.

People say first male's pattern has a black dragon background. With the help of marble genes, black and thick scales (drgn scales) can physically appear in that way.

The second male doesn't look to have dragon scales. Not sure if it's just the picture. To me, he looks to have cellophane body. According to a friend those patterns appear if you crossed a traditional koi to an extended red (red that came from cambodian crosses). I would not call him a koi since he doesn't look like a koi carp.

The third male is from a dragon line - irid dragon (many refer to irid dragons as metallic. But I acknowledge them according to their genes) mixed with red (most likely red dragons). Non marbles can show such pattern. But marbles can also create it. So you'd have to ask the seller whether he is marble or not.

To be honest, I don't know what to call each of your males. And I'm not familiar with new commercial names such as samurai (?).

Btw, what does FCCP and CMIIW stand for.

@hiorasojo; for the record, I failed my black project. I could never produce enough fry in one batch to determine the genetic background of Super Black. All I know is that they are or were originally marbles.

@dec1mallll; your HM's fins looks like it cannot adapt to your water. Usually as they age, their fins become messy - similar to my water; not suitable for long fins.

BTW, are you far from Pontianak.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

indjo said:


> People say first male's pattern has a black dragon background. With the help of marble genes, black and thick scales (drgn scales) can physically appear in that way.


I agree that the first baby boy is has a black dragon background. I'm pleased having him because he is so cool. Apparently, Samurai is the new commercial name to describe him, a Cooper Plakat with Dragon and Marble genes on the scale. 



indjo said:


> The second male doesn't look to have dragon scales. Not sure if it's just the picture. To me, he looks to have cellophane body. According to a friend those patterns appear if you crossed a traditional koi to an extended red (red that came from cambodian crosses). I would not call him a koi since he doesn't look like a koi carp.


Yes i'm fully aware that the second male isn't dragon scale, he also looks like he has thin scales. He doesn't looks like having a cellophane body and tails but when he's shined with lights he really looks cellophane, i'm starting to see some fin color growth followed with some dots on his body, so until he's really mature or he's totally changed from how he looked right now, i probably won't comment much about his identity. 



indjo said:


> The third male is from a dragon line - irid dragon (many refer to irid dragons as metallic. But I acknowledge them according to their genes) mixed with red (most likely red dragons). Non marbles can show such pattern. But marbles can also create it. So you'd have to ask the seller whether he is marble or not.


Interesting statement on he's an irid dragon, i have googled it and yes it does looks like he has a gene of irid dragon that surprisingly covers almost his whole body while what i saw by searching the net the scales are pretty rare on the body. 



indjo said:


> To be honest, I don't know what to call each of your males. And I'm not familiar with new commercial names such as samurai (?).


Well, even if indjo can't call my bettas, i think i can't either hahahah. But it's interesting, maybe i could create my own line of betta? 



indjo said:


> Btw, what does FCCP and CMIIW stand for.


From google, FCCP stands for Fancy Cooper Plakat. But i dont really sure what a Fancy Plakat is hahaha.
CMIIW means Corrects Me If I'm Wrong 



indjo said:


> your HM's fins looks like it cannot adapt to your water. Usually as they age, their fins become messy - similar to my water; not suitable for long fins.


Wow, i think i got to be careful now with long fins. 



indjo said:


> BTW, are far from Pontianak.


It depends on what far is , if it's about reaching it in 1-2 hours then i'm really far. To be completely accurate, im from Sintang (6-8 hrs by land)

Thanks for the comment, Indjo, RussellTheShihTzu (looking at your journals, you are as old as my late grandfather sir, much respect), and Hiprasojo.

It does helps me a lot understanding my bettas.


----------



## hiprasojo (Sep 21, 2020)

dec1mallll said:


> I used dried bbs because people said it's the best food to improve colors in Betta, and because i can't get water fleas here. (maybe i'll buy starter culture but not for now)
> 
> Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


As long as you keep the tank clean then it's not a problem. Dried bbs tend to make the water smells and leave noticeable amount of leftover at the bottom of your tank. I much prefer the live bbs, where you sort of "cook" them first for 24hrs, but if there's none available near you then go for dried bbs.



indjo said:


> To be honest, I don't know what to call each of your males. And I'm not familiar with new commercial names such as samurai (?).
> 
> Btw, what does FCCP and CMIIW stand for.
> 
> ...


FCCP: Fancy Copper Plakat; CMIIW: Correct Me If I'm Wrong

Black samurai is black betta with marbled spots on the upper side of its body (below dorsal) that lights up when exposed to light kinda like the sharp edge of samurai sword. There's a bunch of names for black betta in Indo such as black samurai, red samurai, avatar, gordon, kalimaya, etc. Lol.

Yes, am aware that the project is a failure but that doesn't mean you're not gaining anything, I mean you're like a few steps ahead of us when it comes to black betta.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

hiprasojo said:


> As long as you keep the tank clean then it's not a problem. Dried bbs tend to make the water smells and leave noticeable amount of leftover at the bottom of your tank. I much prefer the live bbs, where you sort of "cook" them first for 24hrs, but if there's none available near you then go for dried bbs.


Yes actually i'm aware of the smell and leftover, so i change water every 2 days, today is a change day. That's also why i bought a pellet today, to accomodate the fish diet more completely


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

dec1mallll said:


> From google, FCCP stands for Fancy Cooper Plakat. But i dont really sure what a Fancy Plakat is hahaha.
> CMIIW means Corrects Me If I'm Wrong


To my understanding; "Fancy" was a term used to refer to color combos created by marble genes. Originally it was used for color combos that weren't common without marble genes. But nowadays I see it used loosely for most multi colored fish, including the common irid-red combo.


----------



## dec1mallll (Aug 15, 2020)

indjo said:


> To my understanding; "Fancy" was a term used to refer to color combos created by marble genes. Originally it was used for color combos that weren't common without marble genes. But nowadays I see it used loosely for most multi colored fish, including the common irid-red combo.


yep, that's why it hard to know what fancy means. Every single color is called fancy in marble plakat right now

Sent from my CPH1937 using Tapatalk


----------

