# What???????



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hello Every One,

I have a male veiltale and a female crown tale. I am in the process of breeding them. I put the female in the tank with the male and the bubble nest. Then, the male swam away and hid from the female!!! I am lost and need some help. PLEASE!


----------



## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

They don't often go right to it...did you condition them first? If the female was being aggressive and not ready to breed it might have startled the male.


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ya she was ready she had the line across her stomach and all, i have other males should i try it with them?


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

How long did you have her in his tank (while she was in her own jar/vase) prior to letting her out to be with him? Stripes doesn't mean she is ready to mate.. mine stripes up every time there is a male close, but they are in no way ready to mate.

Which makes me ask.. which line are you talking about? A line from head to tail, or the bars up and down the body from top fin to lower?

Here is some info you need to consider before take on this long, expensive, hard journey.. make sure you have everything needed.. conditioning the fish, all the spare tanks, jars, heaters, etc you will need for the fry - plus cultivating the food..

Considerations - definitely need to do a lot of research and even though there is a lot of info in these links, there is still so much more when breeding.
Conditioning & spawning
Raising the fry
And last but not least: Feeding the fry

Just be prepared for hundreds of fry, where you are selling them to, how you are going to house each male prior to selling them so that they are healthy, culling the babies if needed, etc.

Since you sound unsure and just willing to go with any male, I honestly don't think you've done all the research needed and understand just how overwhelming and expensive this can become.


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

the one across her stomach and yeah i have everything and i let them look at eachother until he made a bubble nest then put her in the tank and he just swam away


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Across her stomach from head to tail is a stress stripe and not breeding.. they didn't breed because they weren't conditioned and didn't want to breed. Don't keep her in the tank with him unless they are divided or you will have an injured/dead betta.. He may of made the nest for different reasons as well.. especially if she wasn't in his tank in her own container (water level down so she could breathe)


----------



## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

FYI, 

Stress stripes:









Breeding stripes:









I agree Myates 100%. You need to do a LOT more research before you breed again. 
I suggest reading these stickies and finding out everything you need. 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=82909
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=82910
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=82911


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

What kind of setup do you have your pair in? What are you planning on feeding the fry? 
Here is a list of questions you need to ask yourself to find out if you are ready for the responsibility of breeding bettas and raising fry. There is more to it than tossing a male and female together and letting nature take it's course. I'm not trying to be mean here: we want people to be prepared before taking on such a big responsibility.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/breeding-betta-fish/breeding-questions-65791/


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

And even then, breeding stripes doesn't always mean she is ready. My female who is in her own tank between two males gets them when her and one of the males starts to dance together (now they are all used to each other so doesn't happen as much) but she didn't have eggs in her, and if I put them together when they were like that I'm sure she would of totally not been cooperative and would harm a male. lol just thinking about poor Xander running away after thinking he was a big shot when they were in separate tanks makes me giggle. He thinks he's so tough =P


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

bettafish333 said:


> Hello Every One,
> 
> I have a male veiltale and a female crown tale. I am in the process of breeding them. I put the female in the tank with the male and the bubble nest. Then, *the male swam away and hid from the female!!!* I am lost and need some help. PLEASE!


Did the male hide or did he try to flirt?
When a male builds bubble nests upon seeing a female, he doesn't normally "RUN" he might swim away but to flirt - in an "S" style. Not even if the female is gigantic and ready to fight him. He will always start to flirt swim.

The courtship ritual is sort of a game of follow the leader - sometimes the male follows the female, sometime the opposite. But either one will swim away from the other in a flirting motion and the other will follow. Healthy pairs will swim away fast and return as fast too. 

Sometimes, since the female had just been poured in, she is in a light shock and needs a few seconds to realize where she is. But the male will immediately flirt - swimming away and wait for the female to react. If the female's reaction is late, the male will return to her and swim all around her.

So if your male had a BN but ran away from the female, you might have shocked and stressed him big time.


----------



## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Breeding striped whn not paired with being eggy and such can also be "submission" stripes, to show she's less dominant/not wanting to pick a fight and what not(or so i've heard).


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Well, now he isnt running.... he just refuses to make his nest. I have tried almost everything but still..........NOTHING. I might try with a new pair. But not ready to give up yet.


----------



## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

You might just need to separate and recondition them..give them time!  They just weren't ready! Sometimes they need a little more time to be super ready to breed.


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks supermuffin wil do haha luv the name!


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cud it have anything to do that shes a crown tale and not veiltale?


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

No, tail types do not affect breeding in any way.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Not to be rude, but you haven't answered any questions about your set up and how you conditioned them... it could make a difference in why they aren't breeding. And please don't tell me they are still in the same tank without a divider of some sorts.. =)


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

oh haha sorry i have a 10 gallon tank with a sponge filter and the female was in a clear jar..... the male just refuses to make a nest. my guess is i let him in to early and he wants territory and just to fight her


----------



## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

bettafish333 said:


> Hello Every One,
> 
> I have a male veiltale and a female crown tale. I am in the process of breeding them. I put the female in the tank with the male and the bubble nest. Then, the male swam away and hid from the female!!! I am lost and need some help. PLEASE!


I had a male do this too, what I did was introduce another male into the tank. That encourages the natural dominant nature of the male. Plus if the female was being overly aggressive and chasing him, it will make her become submissive due to having two males to deal with instead of one. Normally the males don't get right down to fighting, they posture and blow bubbles at each other before anything physical happens. I take the new male out once the spawing male is feeling cheeky but always before any real fighting. You wouldn't want to damage the fish .
Good luck btw!!:-D


----------



## CalvinWill (Sep 23, 2011)

while this is good advice from an experienced breeder, this sounds like a very bad idea for a "rookie".

I would wait a while and try reconditioning before adding another male into the mix.

No offense, BR.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree with calvin, too risky for a newbie. Even I wouldn't do it.

Instead of releasing a second male; you can use mirrors, float another male in the tank, or place another male next to the tank. Let him flare for a while then rest him for the rest of the day. Usually rivalry will induce spawning.


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Do you have a grow out tank? A 10 gal is not nearly enough...


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

It seems that the male lost his confidence/territory.

If the extent of his confidence is so low that he is now to scared to flare at anything then if I were you I would try to increase the males confidence and aggression first by isolating him and not letting him view any orther bettas/ fish for a while. This is to allow him to reclaim his territory and not feel like there is a stronger betta who is constanly trying to scare him from it.

Then, after isolation, let him see a weak, small, submissive female but only for a very short time (do not put her in the tank, just next to it). 
Do not give the male any oppertunity to give up and hide, if you think he is flaring nicely then take the female away and let the male "win the fight."
If however you notice him getting less aggressive, take the female away immediately. It is vital that you do not give him any opertunity to give up and lose the "fight"
Do this a few times a week but not every day.

Eventually after this "training" your male should be brave enough to defend his territory if all his "encounters" with bettas have resulted in him winning the "fight"

This is how I make my cowards braver


----------



## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

trilobite said:


> It seems that the male lost his confidence/territory.
> 
> If the extent of his confidence is so low that he is now to scared to flare at anything then if I were you I would try to increase the males confidence and aggression first by isolating him and not letting him view any orther bettas/ fish for a while. This is to allow him to reclaim his territory and not feel like there is a stronger betta who is constanly trying to scare him from it.
> 
> ...


Wow great idea!:-D


----------



## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

CalvinWill said:


> while this is good advice from an experienced breeder, this sounds like a very bad idea for a "rookie".
> 
> I would wait a while and try reconditioning before adding another male into the mix.
> 
> No offense, BR.


No offense taken


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

For those following this thread.. His new breeding thread/log. 
Only doing this so we can help guide along the way..


----------



## bettafish333 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks myates i really apreaciate everyones help!


----------



## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

indjo said:


> I agree with calvin, too risky for a newbie. Even I wouldn't do it.
> 
> Instead of releasing a second male; you can use mirrors, float another male in the tank, or place another male next to the tank. Let him flare for a while then rest him for the rest of the day. Usually rivalry will induce spawning.


I totally understand. I only had to do it once and I watched very closely to be sure no fighting took place. I used this technique on my rose tail male that had never even blown a bubble nest or flared at males. Now he flares at other males and blows nests in his own tank. I have saved betta's that were put into the same cup with each other, they had fought so long that they had established dominance by the time I came and bought them from wal-mart. The damage was nothing worse than what you would see in a typical spawning couple. So I feel that I can safely say that the risk is minimal at best. Especially when you have a male that refuses to flare at his own reflection or at other males by his tank like my Rose Tail male. For my male this was the best option. :-D


----------

