# Are goldfish smarter than bettas?



## finnfinnfriend

As in, they need more stimulation or are more inquisitive? And while we are on the subject, are oscars smarter than both of them?


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## jaysee

Having kept both goldfish and bettas, I think that goldfish are smarter. I think cichlids are more intelligent than both.


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## tigerhappy26

I would say Goldfish are smarter than a betta and oscar smarter than both.


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## LittleBettaFish

Probably also depends on the individual fish. I have had bettas that have been incredibly lacking in the intelligence department, but one of my goldfish now is quite dense so I don't think you can make a sweeping generalisation. 

I do remember reading somewhere that goldfish are able to recognise something like eight faces. How true that is I'm not sure, but I also think their immense drive for food does help them in their willingness to perform tricks for example.


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## LittleBettaFish

Just found this article which I think is quite interesting in regards to providing stimulation for fish.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5860


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## finnfinnfriend

I know size doesn't always dictate intelligence, but their sizes are why I guessed that. Although there are cichlids that are way smaller than goldfish...

Bettas, however, are smaller than some insects, so I figured they couldn't be too smart...


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## jaysee

finnfinnfriend said:


> Bettas, however, are smaller than some insects, so I figured they couldn't be too smart...


A dog is much smaller than a rhinoceros, yet unquestionably smarter. Animal size does not correspond to intelligence. It's a matter of brain size and development.

In the case of dinosaurs, it was the smaller species that were the smart ones, not the behemoths. The same is true today with wolves, lions and others - all smaller and smarter than their prey. So in nature, often the bigger animal is dumber. But comparing intelligence of predators and prey is comparing apples and oranges.

Still, the smartest animals on the planet - humans, whales/dolphin, dogs, elephants, primates - all run the gamut in size and nature.


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## finnfinnfriend

jaysee said:


> A dog is much smaller than a rhinoceros, yet unquestionably smarter. Animal size does not correspond to intelligence. It's a matter of brain size and development.
> 
> In the case of dinosaurs, it was the smaller species that were the smart ones, not the behemoths. The same is true today with wolves, lions and others - all smaller and smarter than their prey. So in nature, often the bigger animal is dumber. But comparing intelligence of predators and prey is comparing apples and oranges.


I know, I already said that. Why are you responding in a correcting manner? I already stated that I know that size doesn't dictate intelligence.


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## jaysee

finnfinnfriend said:


> I know size doesn't always dictate intelligence, but their sizes are why I guessed that. Although there are cichlids that are way smaller than goldfish...
> 
> Bettas, however, are smaller than some insects, so I figured they couldn't be too smart...





finnfinnfriend said:


> I know, I already said that. Why are you responding in a correcting manner? I already stated that I know that size doesn't dictate intelligence.


Sounded like you needed some convincing :dunno:


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## finnfinnfriend

Ooh okay I see what you thought I meant. What I meant is their size means they are probably prey items, and prey items are usually not too smart. I don't know for sure though. Anyway it seems that bettas are the least intelligent of the three.


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## LebronTheBetta

Prey animals aren't always dumb, mice for example. I did puzzle toys and did tricks with them, very intelligent IME.  

They did every single one right, after training of course. I think it's different from rodents to invertebrates.


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## finnfinnfriend

Also I am tired and may have said some conflicting things. Sorry I got defensive


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## Agent13

I would guess an Oscar is smarter then both. My mom kept goldfish for 20yrs and loved them but I can't recall their intelligence because I was young.
The reason I guess an Oscar is because cichlids are extremely smart and have intricate hierarchy they create. They decorate to their liking and other non food driven behaviors I have never seen in any Betta. Like a mother cichlid will simply shake her fin a certain way when a predator is near and her fry know to seek safety on her mouth from that. I keep bettas and cichlids. Sorry I don't have info on goldfish but I hear they are quite intelligent. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## finnfinnfriend

LebronTheBetta said:


> Prey animals aren't always dumb, mice for example. I did puzzle toys and did tricks with them, very intelligent IME.
> 
> They did every single one right, after training of course. I think it's different from rodents to invertebrates.


Oh yeah, mice and rats are very smart. I find it strange that rats are smarter than mice though, because I think rats were on earth before mice.


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## jaysee

I don't know. I think comparing goldfish and bettas is like comparing dogs and cats. Both are smart, in their own different ways. The group orientation of dogs puts them ahead in some ways, yet the solitary nature of cats makes them smarter in other ways. But to me, cichlids are absolutely the the smartest across the board.

fff - no worries


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## finnfinnfriend

Does anyone know why bettas are the least intelligent amd cichlids the most?


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## Namialus

I've always thought goldfish weren't smart at all, but not from experience. It's just that people think bettas are extremely smart, and that's what I thought too..


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## finnfinnfriend

jaysee said:


> I don't know. I think comparing goldfish and bettas is like comparing dogs and cats. Both are smart, in their own different ways. The group orientation of dogs puts them ahead in some ways, yet the solitary nature of cats makes them smarter in other ways. But to me, cichlids are absolutely the the smartest across the board.
> 
> fff - no worries


But you said that you think goldfish are smarter than bettas. Do you still think that? And do you think a goldfish needs more stimulation than a betta?


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## jaysee

I think the fact that they are group oriented and bettas are not plays a role. Watching goldfish interact with each other, it's tough for me to say that the betta is smarter.

I still think that goldfish are smarter, but I think that my interpretation of smart is bias because I am a group oriented animal and therefor I am making a determination on what it means to be smart based on what I'm familiar with. However, I don't think that my bias changes anything


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## finnfinnfriend

jaysee said:


> I think the fact that they are group oriented and bettas are not plays a role. Watching goldfish interact with each other, it's tough for me to say that the betta is smarter.
> 
> I still think that goldfish are smarter, but I think that my interpretation of smart is bias because I am a group oriented animal and therefor I am making a determination on what it means to be smart based on what I'm familiar with. However, I don't think that my bias changes anything


Ah okay. Makes sense


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## jaysee

finnfinnfriend said:


> Does anyone know why bettas are the least intelligent amd cichlids the most?


The smartest of the smart are all family oriented, and cichlids raise families.


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## finnfinnfriend

Okay. They are good parents.


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## finnfinnfriend

You know, the fact that bettas are probably the least intelligent makes me like them even more. It makes me feel like I don't need to feel guilty if I am gone for a few days because the betta will be "sad"

They are my favorite anyway though because their tiny-ness is a huge cute factor with me


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## Sokkasmom

Having had goldfish and oscars both for many year I can say that oscars are by far smarter than goldfish. Granted you do get a really smart goldfish, but in general oscars are smarter. I've only had one betta so far, and while he is a curious fish, he isn't that bright...


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## Agent13

I even have a betta that thinks it's a corydora. Poor thing doesn't even know what it is. I like that one in particular just because ..errmm..how "special" it is. :lol: I've seen betta's do cool things but I've got to give my respect to cichlids. They are too smart for their own good. I have one Hap(Haplochromis cichlid) that know when the dominant male is near to play dead. haha. Then he pops up and bounces around like "whatever dude...fooled you!" That tank is by FAARR my favorite! So smart and devious:twisted:


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## Namialus

This thread makes me kind of sad. LOL


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## Destinystar

I love this thread and I love fish all types Betta, Goldfish, Oscars and they are all smart in their own special way. Perseus is so smart I swear he mocks me when I make the fishy face at him, do I have proof no, do I believe it, why yes I believe I do even if I am the only one who does. Fish are awesome :-D


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## finnfinnfriend

Perseusmom said:


> I love this thread and I love fish all types Betta, Goldfish, Oscars and they are all smart in their own special way. Perseus is so smart I swear he mocks me when I make the fishy face at him, do I have proof no, do I believe it, why yes I believe I do even if I am the only one who does. Fish are awesome :-D


+1

My betta thinks I am another male betta XD but every single day he follows my finger around before I feed him  

I think everything with a spine has "thoughts" so our bettas aren't just little robots; to anyone who's worried


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## jag14

I think cichlids are the smarter ones. I've had several types of cichlids. Oscars do recognize their feeder and can be trained to accept petting. I had one fish I wouldn't dare try to pet. He was a 14 inch jaguar/dovii hybrid, mean as heck. But one of the things I like about cichlids is their attitude. I had to put "toys" into Jag's tank, stuff like fishing floats attached to sinkers or large crystals hung over the center brace. He was smart enough to play with the cleaning magnet, attacked it, knew to watch me come near and would hover near the float wanting to play with it. Jag was my favorite cichlid ever. I still miss him, attitude and piranha like teeth and all.


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## Agent13

jag14 said:


> I think cichlids are the smarter ones. I've had several types of cichlids. Oscars do recognize their feeder and can be trained to accept petting. I had one fish I wouldn't dare try to pet. He was a 14 inch jaguar/dovii hybrid, mean as heck. But one of the things I like about cichlids is their attitude. I had to put "toys" into Jag's tank, stuff like fishing floats attached to sinkers or large crystals hung over the center brace. He was smart enough to play with the cleaning magnet, attacked it, knew to watch me come near and would hover near the float wanting to play with it. Jag was my favorite cichlid ever. I still miss him, attitude and piranha like teeth and all.


man.. I think I should ad toys to my cichlid tank now! 
My Nimbochromis fuscotaeniatus cichlid has learned to get secretly fed since he(and my other newer hap) are carnivores unlike the rest of my cichlids who are herbivores. As soon as I pick up the bottle with the green top(everyone else's food) he hides on the other end behind a rock out of sight and he knows I will slip my other hand down by him with his food stuck between my fingers in my fist. He pecks them out then after a few bites check to make sure nobody else is watching then come back down and eats more. He knows when it's time...he waits on me.


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## finnfinnfriend

Bettas just think it's feeding time..._all_ the time


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## charislynne

I've heard bettas have a memory span of 3 seconds


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## xShainax

To me they are equally smart. Goldfish in their own way, and betta's in their way. Maestro was smart and recognized the fish flake can getting excited when he saw it. Alois is smart enough to move gravel with his nose if he saw food fall into the cracks


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## rickey

Goldfish without a doubt

rick


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