# Dropsy pine coning????



## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Ok do my girl that I had to remove to get her fins healed from when she had sbd and then her fins go attacked by the shrimp. Well she was doing so well her fins were coming back in nicely so hubby wanted her in a bigger tank from hospital tank and she was fine then my daughter wanted her to have tank mates so I got 3 small male guppies. She has been fine so when I went to do the weekly water change she was extremely bloated looking and her fins started looking ruff and so I thought maybe the guppies were nipping at her. So I decided to put her in the hospital tank. Now she se to be pine coning. She is swimming around fine but I do see every once in awhile see a bubble come out of her. I put a 1/2 teaspoon sea salt and a tea bag in her tank to soothe her. Here are the tank info before moving her.
Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 5 gallon 
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes 
What temperature is your tank? 78 preset
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? Yes 3 guppies 

Food:
What food brand do you use? Omega one betta and bug bits
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Both omega is pellets bug bits is flakes 
Freeze-dried? Yes daphnia for fin regrow the
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 2 times a day 4 pellets or small pinch of flakes 

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?weekly
What percentage of water did you change?25-30%
What is the source of your water?conditioned tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Vacuum 
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner?
She has tannins from her piece of wood, seachem prime and stability 
Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: between 0-5
pH: 7.4
Hardness (GH): ?
Alkalinity (KH):?
didn’t check because my water has always been hard

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Today last night she kinda looked bloated but not like she is now
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Bloated ,dull, pine coning, didn’t eat this morning 
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Just not eating 
Is your Betta still eating? Not today
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?moved to hospital tank, added sea salt, added tea bag
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Yes she had sbd few weeks ago
How long have you owned your Betta? A few months ago 
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?no

Im reading through old threads but if anyone can give me any suggestions right now I would greatly appreciate it. Here are her pictures just taken right before the take getting darker.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Ok so I changed the water took out sea salt and slowly adding epsom salt


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can do one tablespoon of Epsom Salt per gallon of treated water. Put in for no more than 15 minutes. But keep watch the entire time for signs of stress. Have a gallon with one teaspoon waiting. If she stresses, put her in that before you place her back in her tank. You can do these treatments 2 x per day.

In addition, you can keep one teaspoon per five gallon in her tank. But check GH as ES can raise it.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Thanks. Ok so I did the teaspoon per gallon for her hospital tank. Then I did 100% water change and she is in it. She didn’t seem stressed. She is back and still swimming the tea bag is still in there to darken the water since I did the change. She is watching me exercise and when I walk towards the tank she comes over at the top like she wants me to feed her but I’m not going to. Because I want to fast her. Eforei moved her to her hospital tank she had her nose down in the corner when I would go over to the tank. She hasn’t done that in this tank. Wonder what caused this?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You might want to check but I believe one teaspoon per gallon is too much. It's more like one teaspoon per three gallons.

Short treatment is one tablespoon per gallon.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Oh ok I have read you could do that much in the tank for short periods of time. And then do a 100%water change. But I won’t do it again. I hope I didn’t make things worse for her. Now I feel bad that I may have caused her more damage.


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## Hania41806 (Dec 10, 2020)

Kat50 said:


> Oh ok I have read you could do that much in the tank for short periods of time. And then do a 100%water change. But I won’t do it again. I hope I didn’t make things worse for her. Now I feel bad that I may have caused her more damage.


It's ok, you are trying your best to help the fish. that's what matters.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You probably didn't do any damage. She can have 24/7 treatment at 1.5 teaspoons in a five gallon 24/7. Make sure you only replace the amount you remove. If my math is correct, that's a bit over a third of a teaspoon per gallon.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

She is in a 2.5 gallon tank. But it is basically holds 2 gallons of water. so Would 1/2 teaspoon be safe for a 24/7 or what do you think would be the best way to treat this. Been through a lot with this little girl. And hubby told me this morning he really will be upset if we loose her. I told him I’m going to do my best we don’t. But the outcome when they start pineconing isn’t good. I’m thinking it maybe from over eating when the guppies would get food she would also want their food.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

i Noticed white stuff on her today. She didn’t have it before. Here are the best pics I could get after her epsom salt bath. She is back in her tank with the tea bag. Any ideas of anything else I can do?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

SBD/bloating can be chronic. Once it happens it can always happen again. Pine coning can be a symptom of kidney failure. Even if alleviated it seems to eventually come back.

All you can really do is keep her comfortable, treat as best you can and hope.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Ok thanks


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

My girl is still alive but I didn’t do the epsom salt bath yesterday I had put a little in her tank since moving her back and forth to the bath was stressing her. I also started a bacterial cure all yesterday. She is still swimming around and still bloated and pine coning I haven’t fed her any. Tank is still dark from the tea. So not sure what else to do but wait and hope she recovers. I know they usually don’t and I have warned my family.. But what I don’t understand is from what I have read they either stay at the top or at the bottom. She spends most of her time in the middle.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Do you have access to any medications such as Kanaplex or Potassium Permanganate?


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

No and my car is in the shop.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Ah, okay. Best thing to do is keep her comfortable and continue the medication you are using. Indian almond leaves and 50% daily water changes can also help.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Here is the update. She has sores it looks like on her. Still doing the same thing. Here are the pics. Not sure looks like scales came of more than sores just not sure.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

Did the sores just appear?


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

Yes


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

I'm afraid this may be something else then that is causing the dropsy such as a bacterial infection. How is her appetite and activity? I would make sure to keep her separate and don't share anything between her tank and your other fish, such as decor, siphon, net etc. Make sure to wash your hands before and after helping her.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

She won’t eat and is getting more lethargic since the spots showed up. She is separated in her hospital tank.


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## Kat50 (Dec 22, 2020)

she didn’t make it.


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## KekeTheBettaDoc (Dec 3, 2020)

I am so sorry for your loss.


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