# Rescued Sad Little Boy - Any Help Appreciated!



## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

***Caution, long post!

So I am a high school Biology teacher and have been keeping bettas for almost a year and a half. At school I have become known as that “crazy fish teacher” but rather enjoy the title. At work I have a 29g planted tank housing 9 neon tetras and a crap-ton of red cherry shrimp and god only knows how many snails. I also have a 2 gallon planted betta tank at work. Plus I have 4 planted betta tanks ranging from 5 – 10 gallons at home.

On Monday at our annual Christmas party, the 8th grade science teacher came and asked if I would be interested in taking on her classroom betta because all it did was “lay around”. I asked when the last time she had done a water change was and her response was “Water change? Uhhh…I don't know that we’ve done any…” I know she has had him since August so that is an awfully long time to go without a water change in a 10g tank. At the time I told her I couldn’t take on another fish because I couldn’t afford another tank set up at the moment. But I kept worrying about the little guy because I got the distinct impression that she would flush him down the toilet to be rid of him…while he was still alive.

Finally I decided I could at least float him in the breeders cage I have in my 29g tank until he recovered and could rehome him. I sent her an email to cup him and send him my way. This was yesterday.

He arrived in horrible condition! I thought when she said “laying around” she just meant chilling at the bottom of the tank all the time. In reality he was literally laying on his side. He has horrible fin rot (almost to his body in a couple spots), is extremely pale (should be a dark blue dragon scale with red in his fins but he was very pale/grayish as seen in the picture below), and very skinny.

I thought about putting him in my 2g hospital tank but was afraid he was too weak to withstand antibiotics (in all honestly I didn’t think he would make it through the night). So I spent an hour acclimating him to my 29g tank’s water and then placed him in the breeder’s cage. He still just laid on the bottom with very little movement. He cant even seem to make it to the top to breathe.

I thought for sure he would be dead this morning but he is hanging on. Color might be a tad better (but that just might be wishful thinking) but still laying on his side. He showed a small bit of interest when a few of my shrimp came to investigate the cage but only followed them with his head, he couldn’t seem to move his body much but to spazz a second and then rest.

Any suggestions on what to do to help him?! I feel so bad for him! And am so angry at this other teacher! It is obvious he has been like this for a while and she waited to contact me. Plus, this means she is teaching her students bad fish keeping skills. Ugh!!

I appreciate any help with my poor guy.


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

I have a feeling you will end up keeping him.. hopefully being in clean, warm water will give him the boost he needs.. the way he is in the photo makes me think he might have swim bladder disease and I don't know how to treat that but surely others who read this thread will know and advise you.. thank you for having such a caring heart.


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I'd find out how much\how often she was feeding him. That would hopefully shed some light on if he's dealing with possible issues with overfeeding (Even if he'd been chronically underfed, maybe she put in like 12 pellets once a week or something) or if he's dealing with something as a result of his deplorable living conditions. Best I can suggest is start helping with the things you *can* see. If he's got fin rot that's almost to his body, that has to be taken care of before it does. Otherwise, keep an eye on him and report anything you notice. Good luck to the little guy. Poor fish...


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Also, just a thought, does the breeder's box share water with the tank? Until you know what he has maybe you want to quarantine him from your other fish. Perhaps get a small Tupperware container to clip to the inside of the larger tank? That should help regulate the temperature in his little space while giving him his own place to recover. Maybe also keep his water shallow while he's on his side if he's having trouble coming to the top of the tank for air until he's doing better.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I've got a text out to the previous owner on the food but no response yet. The breeder box does share water with the tank. I considered keeping him in his Betta cup but since that tank is at work (45 mins away) I wanted him to be in as fresh of water as I can manage until I can go an check on him(which will hopefully be Sunday). I was afraid to travel the 45 mins with him as he appears so weak. I figured I give him the weekend in my warm, clean water before possibly bringing him home and starting a course of antibiotics (most likely kanaplex). I'm just so afraid that trying antibiotics on him now would be too stressful for his little body.

I didn't see any signs of illness other than the fin rot and possible swim bladder issues so decided to take the chance of sharing water with my neons. The situation really stinks. I wish I had the money to get him his own tank or lived closer to bring him home.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Previous owner responded regarding the food. Apparently she had only been feeding a couple Betta pellets every couple days but he hasn't been eating for a while


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Are there other fish in the tank the other teacher had? If not, what are her plans for that tank?

Part of me is asking because if she's not using it, maybe you could arrange something with her for it. The other part of me is considering that if there *IS* anything else in that tank, it's probably in desperate need of "rescue" as well.

If it's not possible of feasible, so be it...but considering everything, I figured it was worth asking at least.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Tried that route already. There are no other fish now but apparently she is wanting to get something else for that tank...ugh

She just said that "he has been puny for the last couple weeks" when I asked it she new the last time he actually ate. Then replied that each time she thought he was dead and tried to net him he would swim away. I really wish she hadn't waited so long to ask me to take him!!!


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

Well....he certainly sounds like a little fighter at least. Good luck with him, I hope you're able to get him stable and healthy again in a better environment!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks! Oh and do you think it his laying on his side is swim bladder related or just a result of poor water quality and not having eaten in a while?


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

It's hard to say at this point. SBD would affect how he's able to swim, and position himself in his tank. This could be part of that, but his fin issues and poor water conditions make it hard to say for sure. See how he does when you have time to watch him. That includes how he's swimming\if he's able to swim normally or if he struggles to stay low\high\in any given position in his tank.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

For the past 24 hours he has only stayed at the bottom of his little enclosure. When he swims it is like he is pulling his back half with him and he doesn't move but a second or two. More often than not his head then moves back into the position seen in the pic on my first post


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## aurielssong (May 26, 2014)

for the swim bladder I was told to use a peeled frozen pea. see if you can't get him to eat that. i would start a round of general antibiotics as well. Also if anyway possible raise the temps a little. I had a Goldfish at one point that had this problem. doing all of the above helped. you can email me if you want. just shoot me a pm and i'll give you my email


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Aurielssong - thanks for the suggestion. Right now I don't think the pea will help as he ain't bloated. If I'm not mistaken the pea is for fiber to increase bowel movement to help with bloating that can affect their swim bladder. Right now I've for him at 80* but when I *hopefully* bring him home in a couple days I can raise the temps as needed and will start him on antibiotics. Right now I just wanted to see if people thought it is his swim bladder affected or if he is just suffering from bad water quality/no food


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## aurielssong (May 26, 2014)

yeah, it seems like its a bit of both. the poor conditions probably led to the swim bladder type problem. hope he gets better, poor guy looks like he would be pretty when hes healthy.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Good on you for taking him in, maybe you can work with the other teacher a bit and try to improve the life of any other fish she might get. Its is hard though cause you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.

I also have a betta I just bought that was sitting like him, he's doing better today. I figure it is likely to do with his water conditions and stress. Can you put some items in the little tank for him to rest on? I put a betta hammock with mine.

Heres a great thread to help with the SBD http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=474385

PS: Peas often damage the intestines of bettas since, unlike goldfish, they cannot digest it. Avoid peas.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Tress - I'm glad you rescued a little guy too! My guy has a live plant floating in the breeder cage with him but he only seems to be laying at the bottom right now. I'm hoping to help the lady out if she does decide to try fish again but as you said, getting her to "drink" might be quite difficult lol. Thanks for the link on the SBD!

Aurielssong - thank you for your reply again!  I'm hoping he will live to show me his true colors some day!


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks, but it's not really rescuing when you pay their ransom haha. 

I find it really hard to change the mind of someone who thinks they were doing things right. I recently ran into the lady who gave me a betta for my birthday and she said if she ever gets another betta she'll get my help - but I know her too well I know she wont stick with half the stuff I do. But good luck with her!

You could always PM Lil and get her to weigh in on your little guy so you have an idea of where to go from here.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks! I think I will! Good luck with your boy (and person) too lol. I still think it is rescuing even if you pay the ransom lol


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well if the rescue boy survives I will be keeping him for sure now. Woke up this morning to find one of my boys dead and his filter not working. No idea what happened! He was his usual energetic self last night. I am just not having any luck! That's two boys in the last month (different reasons but still). Let's hope I can break this streak with the new boy!!

I guess in a sad way it works out for the rescue. I will be revamping the 5g tank and letting it sit until I know what is going on with this guy.


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Sorry for your loss! I swear when it rains it pours! Any idea what got your other guy? Maybe some sort of ammonia/nit- spike from the filter stopping or temp fluct from the heat not being circulated?


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## lumiina (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm sorry for your loss!

I've read comments from people around then net about how betta are just fish and who cares if they're in tiny bowls. If that's the case, just don't get one! They're an absolute non-necessity. I don't see why people insist on getting one again and again if they don't care about taking care of them properly. They are so much more fun when they're in bigger tanks and better conditions!

I hope that teacher doesn't get another one :/
That's exactly right! What is she teaching the kids at all by keeping one she doesn't care properly for in the classroom?


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I wish I knew! He was perfectly fine when I went to bed (the tank is on the night stand next to my bed). I haven't tested the water (have company over today) so not sure if it was an ammonia spike but I'm wondering if it was a lack of oxygen. He was laying in the wisteria, which is where he usually sleeps. It looked like he may have gotten stuck in an aerial root. But that wouldn't make sense unless he had already been weak because he has always been a beefy boy. So I'm wondering if a lack of water flow lowered the oxygen supply too much while he was sleeping and he didn't have the strength to break away from the plant. 

So no really sure. Just speculation. The unexpected deaths are the worst. Ugh.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Lumina - I agree! I fight that battle with my own students. I try to make them understand that fish deserve the same care as any other pet. It drives me nuts that the other teacher is showing them "fish don't matter". I just hope he makes it!


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

summersea said:


> I wish I knew! He was perfectly fine when I went to bed (the tank is on the night stand next to my bed). I haven't tested the water (have company over today) so not sure if it was an ammonia spike but I'm wondering if it was a lack of oxygen. He was laying in the wisteria, which is where he usually sleeps. It looked like he may have gotten stuck in an aerial root. But that wouldn't make sense unless he had already been weak because he has always been a beefy boy. So I'm wondering if a lack of water flow lowered the oxygen supply too much while he was sleeping and he didn't have the strength to break away from the plant.
> 
> So no really sure. Just speculation. The unexpected deaths are the worst. Ugh.


that is so sad..but if he went in his sleep that is a blessing. Sometimes very sad things work together for good, in this case your losing your betta provides a home for the new fellow.

just my thoughts.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Selah - I had a similar thought. Some times things do happen for a reason. I'm hoping that maybe this was a sign that the rescue boy will make it (I'm not naming him until he looks like he is out of the woods - hoping that means I won't get as attached). Fingers crossed anyway


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## Littlefin (Oct 18, 2014)

I think he's gonna probably make it.. how is he now?


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## Greenapp1es (Dec 4, 2014)

I'm sorry for your loss. That has to be hard, especially with it being so unexpected.

Hopefully your new little guy pulls through with bright swimming colors!


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## BlueLacee (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh god. That's more than what the other teacure said. Good luck with him. Keep us posted.

And I'm sorry for youR loss


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## Littlefin (Oct 18, 2014)

By the way im sorry for your loss. :,(


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thank you all for your concern. Unfortunately the school was locked up tighter than Fort Knox for some reason this weekend so I couldn't bring the boy home. However, I should be able to get in tomorrow morning so I will update with his condition once I see him. Also, thank you all for the condolences. It's just been one of those months. Here is hoping for a Christmas miracle for my new boy.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

And this came from a science teacher??? One weeps for the education system if a science teacher can't bring themselves to treat a fish like a living being. Good luck with your rescue. Sounds like he's in desperate need of a little luck in his life


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I will say that this particular teacher is not well thought of in our district (or department since I am also a science teacher). She has expressed concern for the fish and that she wishes she had brought him to me sooner. Still doesn't excuse her actions but it is something.


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## fisharefriendsnotfood78 (Aug 4, 2014)

I hope the little guy pulls through! It's a great thing you're doing. I hate how people look at any fish as a pretty decoration in a bowl, and think "It's a fish; If it dies we can get another for like 5 dollars."


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well the little guy was still alive but pretty much in the same condition. I feel his head was a little darker and he seemed to try to move more but still Hal on his side. I am acclimating him to my hospital tank right now.


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## BeautifulBettaFishies (Dec 21, 2014)

Bless him! I hope he pulls through, poor boy ): some people just cannot be taught, it's like they have wool in their ears.

Science teacher? ;-; I really hope it wasn't a biology teacher, I really do hope.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

well hopefully since he survived the weekend all he needs is some clean warm water to heal in.


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

thank goodness that he is still alive.. come on little fellow..


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Not the biology teacher as I am the biology teacher for the district (we are a small district so I'm the only bio teacher) lol ;-)

Well he is acclimated and floating in the breeders cage in the hospital tank. Nice and covered to keep it less stressful for him. Fingers and toes are crossed!


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Here's hoping for him.
Is there any chance you could entice him to eat a frozen bloodworm.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well this morning he is alive but on his side. He did eat 2 small fish NLS pellets that sank in front of his face last night but no interest in the one I dropped down this morning...


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

poor little fellow.. do you think that when they stop eating they have given up the will to live? I hope not.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well he is still alive but no improvement. I had hoped after 5 days of warm/clean water that there would have been some improving. He has been on kanaplex for 24 hours now (will do a 50% water change and retreat the new water tomorrow). Should I try AQ salt with the kanaplex? Any other suggestions or guesses on how long before I might see improvement?


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Turns out the little guy is a fighter. Today he actually swam up and ate 4 of my small fish NLS pellets. He fell right back to the bottom each time but that is the first time he has made any effort to swim up.

My fear is that he may have permanent swim bladder damage since he still can't move his tail end very well. Could that possible be from having so little tail fin or is that me just being hopeful? I'm not sure what to do with him if his inability to swim is permanent...


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Here is a pic of him resting after all the excitement ... Not the best since the hospital tank is in a dark, quiet corner but you can get an idea of his state still.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

I have one that is an exceptionally bad swimmer. He has gotten a little stronger over time, but low current, shallowvtank, and floating cave helped


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

My problem is I don't have a tank that can be overly shallow. All I have is a soil based 5g tank. With the live plants and filter on it I can't get the water too shallow. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy a new tank set up either...no hope it is just temporary then?


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

It might be. He is recovering from serious neglect. Just a floating mesh tube helped mine quite a bit. Gave him a spot to rest near the surface.


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

I think the little fellow looks quite spunky in spite of his tail end.. the floating mesh sounds like something to try.. it always amazes me how bettas try their best no matter the odds.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I might have to try the mesh tube idea. I wish my tank's plants has fully grown in. I completely re did the tank after losing my other boy so the plants aren't very tall yet :-(


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well the little guys condition hasn't changed. He still can't swim and struggles the 2-3 inches to the top of the breeder box to eat his pellet and then alls limply back to his side. He will get another treated 50% water change today with the kanaplex but now I am worried about quality of life. 

His color is still pale and no regrowth of fins. I don't want him to be suffering. I'm afraid I may have to make a hard decision...I'll give him until Sunday (which is a full treatment of kanaplex) but then will have to decided what to do. 

I had really hoped he would be able to pull through. Ugh.


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

I hope for a miracle between now and Sunday.. I know what you mean about having to make a hard choice if there is no quality of life..


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Selah - I've had to make that decision once before and I balled my eyes out, even knowing that it was the best thing for him. I'm hoping for a miracle too! Still if he can't swim the 2-3 inches now there is no way he could swim to the top of the 5g I have open for him. And living the rest of his life laying on his side in a breeders box just isn't mich of a life *sigh*. This stinks!


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Poor baby, I hope he makes it!


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## Fawnleaf (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm rooting for you!  I hope he makes it! Thanks so much for caring and doing everything you can  Merry Christmas to you!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well today was the day I set an original deadline for RB (rescue boy). He still isn't really swimming but he is showing more "try" every day. So I'm going to keep giving him a chance. I'll do another 50% water and put in a carbon filter and Purigen bag into the filter running on the tank.

I am going to keep him in the breeder box as he still doesn't have to strength to stay at the top longer than to eat a pellet or two. I did find him chilling in the floating plant stem I have in with him today, which I the first time I haven't found him laying at the bottom of the tank. His color is much better but no fin regrowth yet. I'm going to add stress coat to his water with this water change to see if helps encourage growth. I still don't know if he will improve enough to have a quality life but I am willing to give him more time if he wants to keep fighting.

I did go ahead and get a new boy for the 5g (I just couldn't leave him at PetsMart) as I really don't think RB will ever get strong enough for that big of a tank. If he continues to get stronger, my sister has an unused 1.5g tank. I would need to get another heater and a light source for it but if he survives the next week I will see if I can scrounge up enough money. 

Here is hoping he continues to improve!


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Yay! I'm glad he's showing enough improvement to get a reprieve. I agree on the smaller tank. My bad swimmer is in a 2.5 gallon but does poorly in anything else. We're all rooting for you RB!


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

thank you for giving him more time.. sounds like the little fellow is trying indeed..


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## KlutzyGal (Mar 31, 2014)

Good luck to you and little RB! I know he was kept in horrendous conditions, but at least on the "bright" side she did give him to you to try to get him back to health rather than just letting him suffer more and die like that, or just flushing him. I agree with what others have said - he at least seems like he has some fight in him. Hopefully enough fight to pull himself through.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's well wishes and I am sure RB does too (though he is kinda glaring at me right now because I just changed the water...he hates that lol).

I really want to give this guy every opportunity to make it. I've had friends and family tell me that he isn't going to make it and I should go ahead and put him out of his misery. If it comes to it and I don't think he can get well enough to make a decent shot at life then I will do what needs doing but I really really really hope he can pull through. I don't want that other teacher or my students who saw him to ask how he is and have to say he didn't make it.

Either way I will know that I have given him every effort to survive. I just hope it ends positively! Again, thank you all for your support!


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

You're a really good person for helping this guy out. I'm sorry if this was already stated somewhere else on this thread, but have you tried a towel over the tank?


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks and no problem about asking Petmania...he has a towel over the tank the majority of the time. I let it off during some of the daylight hours to keep his floating plant alive and give him a bit of sunshine but he doesn't look stressed...in fact his color is the best it has been since I received him. Thankfully lol


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Good. His colors would fade if he was getting worse. When he swam up to get the NLS pellets, was his body straight or kinked?


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## Schmoo (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm rooting for this little guy so hard!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks Schmoo! I am too! 

Petmania - He does have a bit of a kink - his body doesn't straighten out like it should which is what leads me to believe the damage to his swim bladder is permanent, sadly.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

I think it might be a genetic defect or the fact that he has been laying down in that position. Yes, swim bladder can be a major factor of it, but a kink prevents him from swimming straight, leading to him lying down in that position.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well according to the previous lady he was perfectly healthy and able to swim when she first got him so the kink is likely from laying down as much as he has been. She had told me he had been like that for at least 2 weeks (probably a bit longer) before she asked me to take him on. Poor boy.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

At the worst, he gets to spend the end of his life with someone who actually cares about him. Which is never a bad thing. But we are all hoping he recovers some more as he seems to be such a little fighter!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

aselvarial said:


> At the worst, he gets to spend the end of his life with someone who actually cares about him. Which is never a bad thing. But we are all hoping he recovers some more as he seems to be such a little fighter!


That was pretty much my thoughts on the matter too! If nothing else the end of his life will have better care and affection that what he endured before...though hopefully this isn't the end just yet :-D


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well RB has figured out he likes to rest in the floating plant. Still struggles to get in there but he tries more each day! 

I picked up the 1.5g tank from my sister today and am working on cleaning it up. I am going to do a sand substrate and put in some simple live plants (Java fern, anubias, etc). I'm goin to have to figure out a light for the tank as the built in LED light is corroded and not working. I'll have to look at Walmart and see if they have a small clamp on light I could use. 

I'm also going to jimmy the filter wth filter sponge and a home made Purigen filter bag. Hopefully that will slow the flow and keep his water quality ideal. 

Here is a pic of RB lounging in his current plant


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

Wow! He's really coloured up! So glad he is giving it his all still  

Hey, you could always call him Arby since it sounds like... RB xD


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

LOL I'm actually thinking of sticking with RB as I've gotten used to it hehehe. And he has definitely colored up since the pic I posted at the beginning farm the first day...and today's pic is without decent lighting!


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

he is a little fighter.. its great to know that he is trying.


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## aurielssong (May 26, 2014)

so happy to see that he is feeling much better  proud of the little fighter!!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well there hasn't been much change in RB the last couple days. He still mostly lays around though he does tend to lounge in his floating plant more than before. Still has a good appetite and good color. 

The big news for today is I have set up RB's soon to be new home! It was quite the ordeal. I started with my sister's 1.5g tetra tank. Went through all the work to make it an NPT. Had to buy a stand alone light and little table for it to sit on next to my bed. All of this only to wake up the morning to a growing puddle around the tank! GAH! 

So I had to run to PetsMart and buy a new tank. I went with the basic 2.5g rectangular tank with glass canopy. Didn't want anything too deep and the price was right ($15). I had to modify the lid to raise a bit above the tank to allow for cords. Then had to redo the whole NPT landscaping - and let me tell you that was a beast!

But after a total of 5 hours between both tanks, RB's soon to be new home is up and running! The water is still a bit cloudy and some of the soil is still floating but you get the idea! I seeded the tank with filter media from one of my cycles tanks and made a little nylon baggie of Purigen to complete the filter. Now to watch and test it for a few days before little RB can move in!


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

that is a beautiful tank! I sure wish our Petsmart had such a tank but it has very limited stock being 1) in a small town and 2) being in Canada. I'm sure that RB is going to love it! good to hear that he still has good color and is eating.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Yay! And laying in a floating plant is progress from lying on the floor.  are his floating plants moving to the New tank with him?


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## lumiina (Dec 15, 2014)

Aww, he's so cute! I was so heartbroken when I heard that you might have to euthanize him and hoped that he'd make it through and am glad to hear he's been such a fighter! He looks a lot better than the first photo you posted of him! I hope he just keeps getting better and better!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Selah - I actually bought it online and picked it up in the store. You could always see if they have that option for you! They are running a deal of 10% off if you do it that way right now. 

Aselverial - I had been considering letting his little sprig continue to float in his new tank when he moves over. It might take away from the look of the tank but he would probably appreciate it!


Lumina - Thanks, me too! Hopefully everyone's well wishing and prayers will get him through this!


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Definitely do! My bad swimmer loves his floating plants. Actually even my good swimmers love to sleep in their floaters


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## Little Zoom and Lady Iris (Nov 22, 2014)

Glad to hear RB is doing better, the tank looks awesome, I'm sure RB will love it


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I'm certainly coming into this thread late, but from what I see it appears that his swim bladder is completely deflated (the caudal aspect of his body appears very flattened). I tried to rescue a fish like this from petsmart a few weeks ago. I had seen him "sitting" on his caudal fin for months, apparently unable to float normally, and was going to bring him home but was told that petsmart employees are unable to rehome sick fish. My plan for this little guy was to give him a good month to recover (I have had "sinkers" recover before, but it takes a good amount of time), and if there was no improvement, I was going to attempt to re-inflate the swim bladder. To do this, I would anesthetize the fish with clove oil (eugenol) and use a tiny (30 gauge) needle to insert a small amount of air (carefully calibrated using Archemede's principle) into the swim bladder. I have seen this done successfully on koi, but I would only use it as a last ditch effort because it is obviously an invasive procedure. I actually have a whole box of tiny syringes that I bought just in case (they are quite hard to find and I wouldn't want to be waiting on shipping if a fish needed it). 

The fin rot is a common complication of SBD in my experience, and it can be very difficult to treat. I'm still trying to determine if it is linked to the etiology of the SBD or if it is a secondary problem. I'm leaning toward the former since it doesn't appear to be a straightforward bacterial infection. Please keep me posted, the more information we can gather the better the chances of figuring this out are.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Kim - I am glad to hear someone has had similar fish get better! If I may ask, what treatment method did you follow for the fish that got better? I want to make sure I am doing all I can for the little guy!

I don't know that I, personally, would ever feel comfortable trying to inflate a swim bladder as that would require painstaking accuracy I just don't feel I have in Betta anatomy but I am intrigued by the idea!

Again, I appreciate any tips you coul give me but am given more hope now that someone has been able to bring a boy back from similar conditions! Ur only had him 2 weeks now so He still has a ways to go.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Ok, I currently have 2 betta boys right now that were former SBD rescues, but I have taken in 4 fish in total. Here is what happened in each in case it is helpful:

Fish 1 (unnamed): This was one of my first rescues since I started fishkeeping for a second time. He was a doubletail halfmoon male who was floating at the top of his cup. He never pooped and didn't eat for over one month after I brought him home. His fins also began to deteriorate almost immediately. I tried just keeping him happy in warm, clean water for a week or two and he showed no improvement. I tried some epsom salts to no avail and then moved to kanamycin and metro to treat a suspected internal bacterial infection and control the fin rot. These had no effects. I gave him a few days off the medications and then tried deworming him with a combo of praziquantel and levamisole. He never improved, his fins became completely tattered, and after several months of his condition deteriorating further each day, I finally euthanized him to end his suffering. Poor little guy  It was a very hard decision but I just couldn't help him and he really seemed to be suffering. Knowing what I know now, I'd probably try cystocentesis (aspiration of air from the swim bladder) before euthanization if I was faced with the problem again.

Fish 2 (now named Wormy): This fish (DT HM) was rescued at the same time as the one described above. He was more like your boy - he was unable to rise off the bottom of his cup, and he had a bit of finrot, although his swim bladder did not appear deflated like your boy. At first, I kept him in a warm, clean tank with only a few inches of water so that he could reach the surface. He improved over the course of probably 1.5-2 weeks until he could swim, but with some difficulty. He was extremely constipated and did not respond to feeding frozen daphnia or bits of a pea. He could barely eat the equivalent of one pellet without appearing very bloated and having trouble maintaining equilibrium, so I decided to try deworming him with a medicated food of metronidazole and fenbendazole, followed by a praziquantel tank treatment (this protocol covers all types of internal parasites). After this he finally pooped! A fecal analysis revealed a large number of some sort of ciliated protozoans in his feces that I believe to be parasites. Unfortunately, after the week-long treatment he again became constipated and swam with difficulty. I actually ended up deworming him 2 more times with about 2 weeks inbetween each treatment and for the last treatment I switched the fenbendazole to levamisole to take advantage of levamisole's immune fortifying properties. When he was having real difficulties with constipation, I would give him epsom salt baths for 30 minutes one to three times daily at a concentration of 1 tbsp per gallon and this would occasionally seem to help. After the third treatment of antiparasitic meds he finally started to poop normally and no more ciliated protozoans were seen in the feces (all the previous fecal samples were positive). I moved him to his heated, cycled 10 gallon tank and the one area of persistent finrot cleared up without treatment. He is now a vibrant, happy, healthy, spunky little guy who eats normal portions of food twice daily and is doing great 

Fish 3 (Dexter): This one really surprised me. When I got him he was listing slightly in his Petco cup. He was an otherwise healthy plakat male and I figured he would be perfectly fine in no time. He defecated normally but I did find a few ciliated protozoans in one fecal sample. Based on my previous experience with Wormy, I decided to try deworming when he didn't improve in about a week. I gave him metro and levamisole food followed with prazipro in the tank water as I did with Wormy. I also began feeding him solely frozen food because even pre-soaked pellets seemed to interfere with his equilibrium. He improved, began swimming normally, and seemed to have made a full recovery. I moved him to his cycled, heated 10 gallon and he was find for about a week until he began to appear bloated again; it all went downhill from there. He became lethargic very quickly and began refusing his food. I tried some epsom salts, dewormed once again to no avail, and even tried some kanamycin afterward. Nothing seemed to make any difference and he died rather quickly. Upon autopsy, his gallbladder was hugely distended with bile. I'm still completely stumped....my best guess is that he had a blockage that prevented the bile from exiting the gallbladder and caused his death. Perhaps the pressure from the huge gallbladder was interfering with his buoyancy and producing the symptoms. In any event, I do not believe it was a treatable condition 

Fish 4 (Trooper): Trooper has been a difficult one. He is a DT HM male who is still with me and doing much better. I rescued him from Petco where he was just floating on the surface of his cup. As with several of the others, he also had fin rot and was constipated. I used an in-tank epsom salt treatment of .5 tsp/gallon which seemed to help and he began defecating normally. It took about 15 days for the buoyancy issues to begin improving and probably another week or more for him to swim normally. He is now a happy fish but still has fin deterioration (I brought him home in september). I've tried treating the fin rot with just clean water with some salt, triple sulfa, a combo of kanamycin and nitrofurazone, and just some indian almond leaves. I've performed a fin swab and didn't get much of anything upon direct observation following gram-staining, but I've also grown the swab on agar and have found both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, although this does not necessarily mean that these species are infecting his fins (they could just be normal flora or present in the water). His fins don't really worsen very quickly, but they also don't appear to be healing. However, one area that was damaged from constantly bending over when he was having buoyancy issues actually fell off at one point and is now regrowing, so it appears that physically injured areas heal while the tissues affected by the "rot" do not. I'm currently running some antibiotic susceptibility testing on the bacteria I grew from the swab, but I'm contemplating anesthetizing him and debriding the infected tissues if he doesn't start to show some signs of improvement within a week or so. At this point he appears happy, lives in a 10 gallon cycled, heated tank, and eats/defecates normally. His feces have always been clear of parasites so I have not dewormed him. Overall, I don't believe the fin rot poses an immediate danger to his life and he appears happy, but I worry about it worsening.

So there ends my novel. Basically, it seems that fin rot is a common complication of SBD, but I am unsure of the etiology behind this. I know there is a viral disease called spring viremia of carp which causes SBD in carp, and I'm wondering if both the SBD and the fin rot in some of these bettas may be viral given the resistance of the fin rot to treatment. Of course, Wormy's story serves to underline the fact that many problems may cause the symptoms of SBD (viruses, bacteria, parasites, genetics, environmental, etc.). The closest I've ever seen to your boy would definitely be the male VT that I saw in the store. The apparent deflation of the swim bladder is something that seems to be present in both this fish and yours, and is not something that my fish suffered from (if anything, two of my boys probably had over-inflated swim bladders which is why I bought the tiny syringes). I wish I could have rescued this guy - I'd probably have some more advice for you if I had. Overall, this is definitely a disease that I am greatly interested in since it affects so many bettas and has a somewhat poor prognosis. Please feel free to ask any more questions! I really hope your little guy makes a full recovery like my Wormy!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thank you for all the details! As a biology teacher I find it fascinating!!

As you said, my boy's symptoms aren't quite like those you've had so far. He has no problems dedicating so no constipation. I don't think his SBD is caused by parasites though am willing to try deworming if you think it might be helpful. Right now he is still in the breeders box in my hospital tank while his new 2.5 gallon tank cycles. The only treatment he has received was first just warm, clean water for 5 days and then a full corse of kanaplex (8 days). Now he is just back to warm clean water. 

Like I said, I am open to any suggestions that may help the little guy!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

No problem 

Do you have access to a microscope being a biology teacher? If you can, try to get a fecal sample, smear it on a slide, and examine under the scope. You can take pictures of any unusual findings and post them on here and I'd be happy to take a look at them. You'd want to look for parasite eggs and whole organisms. That would be the best way to figure out if he needs deworming, but judging by the normal defecation and lack of bloating I'd probably look elsewhere to start.

Let me look through my research a bit more and I'll probably have more to add.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Here is a pretty good link to pictures of some common pathogens (roundworms, tapeworms, fungi): Fecal Float Parasite Pictures Gallery.

It's mostly geared toward mammals and birds, but unfortunately I've never found anything on fish fecal flotations.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I won't be back in the classroom until Monday but can definitely look at a fecal sample under a microscope then (my coop student who helps me will get a kick out of it lol)

Thanks for the help!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Great! Microscopes are wonderful tools 

Oh, and if you've fed him any bloodworms or brine shrimp lately be prepared to see the exoskeletons, which tend to look like alien monsters under the scope


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Dang, all I've fed him are NLS pellets - totally wishing I had some time shrimp right about now LOL


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Whelp its been awhile since I've done an update on little RB. Things haven't changed much. I did look at a fecal sample under the microscope and saw no parasites (which is a relief). This morning he didn't seem interested in eating...though that may be due to the fact I woke him up 3 hours earlier than he was accustomed to since I had to go to work. We'll see if he is feeling any hungry tomorrow morning.

His tank is still cycling. I had hoped that by seeding the filter with material from a cycled tank that the cycle would be cut short. Unfortunately it is still showing 1ppm of ammonia and no nitrites with few nitrates. Looks like it may be a week or two before RB will be able to go to his new tank. I did get him a light for above the hospital tank...hopefully that will prepare him for his new home so we he wont be complete blinded by the CFL daylight bulb I use for his plants!

I'll continue to update every so often. I just had hoped to see more improvement than this by now. While he is usually laying in a plant instead of on the ground, he still can't control his hind end, which is a real bummer.


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Well, he's doing better and looks healthier than he did before! I hope he continues to fight. Having someone care for him is helping a lot.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Well it's been a while since I last updated on little RB. There hasn't been any changes as I waited for his tank to finally cycle other than I noticed he began to develop "bed sores" in a couple places where he usually lays on the plastic bottom of his breeders cage. I keep doing frequent water changes using both prime and stress coat but being on that hard bottom so much has been taking its toll. His appetite has stayed amazing and he was as active as he could be in his breeders cage. 

Finally - his tank is cycled and ready!! RB had a blast exploring his new home. He is obviously pretty weak on his tail end and still swims bottom down for the most part but he was all over his tank! He tried to take a nibble or two out of a ramshorn snail that's been enjoying the tank. He's also loving all te little microscopic yummy organisms he finds.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

On this picture you can see the bed sore I am talking about. This is the side he lays on when he rests at the bottom of the tank.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

And after tuckering himself checking out his new abode, RB was pretty happy to lay in his floating hygro stem he had in the hospital tank. I made sure he could swim up for air a few times before turning the lights out for the night. Fingers crossed he contines to improve! I'll be keeping a close eye on water parameters until he heals up. Think good thoughts!


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

Aw poor baby is such a fighter! Here's hoping he makes some more strides forward!


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## selah (Oct 14, 2014)

thank you for the update and for the nice home for him.. he is such a fighter.


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

He is definitely a little fighter. He was quite the happy little camper when I woke him up to feed him and check on him before I headed to work this morning. Gobbled up his pellets...though he did have to chase them a bit with the current from his filter - which isn't strong but he is used to his pellets sitting still. Hopefully all this exercise will help him get stronger faster!


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## KitDewStein (Jan 20, 2015)

He is so pretty ;-; I hope he gets to using is tail end


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

KitDewStein said:


> He is so pretty ;-; I hope he gets to using is tail end


 
He is definitely much prettier now that he is colored up versus how he looked the day I got him :shock: its amazing what warm/clean water does for these guys!


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## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm glad he got to move into his home! He's such a trooper!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Awww...I'm so happy to hear that he's doing well and loving his new home. Despite his challenges, it seems that he is living a great life now - good for you!!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm just so glad he has made it this long! When I first got him I thought for sure he was a gonner. He was so pale and sad looking...far from how he looks now, thankfully!


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## SpottedHorse120 (Jan 26, 2015)

Aww! Poor fish! This is what I would do. I'd lower the water level a little bit so the surface is closer to him and he doesn't have to swim as far up. Remember to clean his tank a little more than nessecary to keep the water VERY clean. Feed him regularly and don't forget about the heater. That other teacher probably kept no heater with him and cold water. Give him a little more attention and once he gets a bit better, I would definitely put him in the hospital tank. Like after a couple days of him moving around more. 


Hope this helped xx


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

SpottedHorse120 said:


> Aww! Poor fish! This is what I would do. I'd lower the water level a little bit so the surface is closer to him and he doesn't have to swim as far up. Remember to clean his tank a little more than nessecary to keep the water VERY clean. Feed him regularly and don't forget about the heater. That other teacher probably kept no heater with him and cold water. Give him a little more attention and once he gets a bit better, I would definitely put him in the hospital tank. Like after a couple days of him moving around more.
> 
> 
> Hope this helped xx


Hi SpottedHorse! Welcome to the forum 

Here is a little tip for when posting on threads. Check to see if there is more than one page, if so, be sure to not only read the first page but the last 2 to kinda catch up on what is going on  If you had you'd learn that he's doing well and has a new tank catered to his disabilities.


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## aurielssong (May 26, 2014)

Glad he's doing much better!! He's much prettier now that he has colored up


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks for trying to help though Spottedhorse! Welcome to the forum! No worries about not realizing there were more pages. Little RB (now called Jackson) is doing great! May never swim right again but he's quite the happy spunky boy now!

Auriel song - Thanks! He has definitely colored up nicely! Now if I can just get him to finish healing up his bed sores (which are slowly looking better) and get his fins to grow some I would be ecstatic!!


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## Tress (Jun 6, 2014)

He's so cute <3


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## KittyVonMeow (Jan 14, 2015)

wow this was an awesome story to read, glad to see how much proper conditions and care can do for these little guys and gals!!! definitely will give many owners some hope when the little finned babies arent doing too hot!  Congrats to you and Jackson!


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Tress said:


> He's so cute <3


Thanks! I'm pretty partial myself lol ;-)



KittyVonMeow said:


> wow this was an awesome story to read, glad to see how much proper conditions and care can do for these little guys and gals!!! definitely will give many owners some hope when the little finned babies arent doing too hot!  Congrats to you and Jackson!


Thanks! I'm just glad this story had a pretty good ending! The amount of help I have gotten off this forum in the last few years has been amazing! I've learned so much and my fishies thank everyone for it! :-D


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## charliegill110 (May 19, 2014)

wow i just read every page and this is so amazing! how long did you give him kanaplex for?


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## summersea (Jul 26, 2013)

Shew, that's a lot of pages to read lol

I gave him the recommended dosage of 3 treatments. So he got the initial treatment then a 50% water change 2 days later with another treatment. Then repeated again 2 days later. Then ran carbon in the filter to get the meds out o the tank. After that I kept up every other day water changes until his new 2.5g tank cycled.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

What a handsome boy he is now! Such a difference from when you first got him


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