# HMPK Marble (giant geno) x HMPK Dragon Scale Marble



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

this is my first comeback spawn since vacuum for years from breeding bettas, they are spawned 2 months ago at 8-12-2015, saw eggs at 10-12-2015 and eggs hatched 11-12-2015, free swimming at 13-12-2015, father is being keep inside with fry for about 2 weeks until i put the fry on grow out tank. i am hesitating to post this spawn, but then think maybe it'll be nice to share this , so beware of pics bombing lol!

things with giant spawn is that you will deal with a huge size difference among fry, some will grow super fast, they will triple- quadruple their other sibling size, in my case this disparity put my head in a mess, always made me think everyday when i checked them worrying,why i have so much runts in my spawn ( the fast growing group are about 70+, the other normal growth rate 120+), i never have this occasion on my past experience breeding normal size betta, until then an expert taught me that in a giant spawn you WILL only have a certain amount that grow really fast and big, the other will just like normal betta growth rate, and to see the grow rate of recent hm spawn i have at 1 month age cleared all the confusion about the size disparity for me.

pic of male and female, very sorry for pretty blurred and dark on male because he's on conditioning tank tanned heavily with IAL leaf, i plan to spawn him again soon, and the female just so unphotogenic i crammed my hand while taking her pic lol


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

warning ,images heavy,these are their fry at almost 2 months old,will bomb more pics of best individual maybe 2 more weeks as fins will develop more, i expect a lot of marbling by then, since some already start to show it, i already jarred a couple of troublemakers , had so many male in this spawn , probably at 60 :40 split between males and females


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

Beautiful! I would love to steal a MG female but have no space!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

jarred a couple of males here some pictures, all of them marble like crazy, haven't found time to make females photos but i'll do it soon, females has very short caudal, will look if they can grow more caudal when they're older


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

Oh, gosh! These are all so gorgeous!!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

most of the fry still not jarred, i am pushing their growth because seller from which i bought the male tell me the father has giant geno , so i want to see if they can hit 4cm BO before this month ends, they are now 80 days old.

change the water frequently now and their get 2-3 times meal everyday from pellets to live foods , i will perhaps jar the male soon, i spot a male with badly torn anal when i change the water this morning, luckily only one, because i put so many whole IAL leaves inside so they are unlikely to really fight inside.

glad to see many heavily opaque dragon scale inherited from their mother by these fry, they show promising color and form for future work


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

OMG, I would looovveee one of your Giants. I wish. XD


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

LOVE them all!!! Wow! I'm hoping my marble x marble fry will start to grow/marble soon lol! I'm feeding them as often as I can and doing at least 50% WC daily


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

I forget, just found this morning that they are actually already 4cm bo, so i am trying to make them 5cm bo by the end of the month. I just hope they do not spar to often inside


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

SusieG said:


> LOVE them all!!! Wow! I'm hoping my marble x marble fry will start to grow/marble soon lol! I'm feeding them as often as I can and doing at least 50% WC daily[/QUOTE
> 
> Dont worry yours will marble soon , i read this breeder in my local post, he put IAL inside to induce the marbling soon, from what i see in my 4 spawns of marble, they start marbling at 1.5 month age


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

found time to get photo's from 3 jarred siblings, trying to get another one with red fins but photo are blurred, will post the one with red fins later. so far its been male photos , will find a time soon for the females photos.

number 1&2 is same fish, i like everything from him but his bit steep top line ( i prefer a smooth curved top line)
number 3 make my future breeder list will pair him with female in number 5 photo, the number 5 photo is taken when the she is bit less to two month old, so caudal look small.
can't take full flare photo from number 4 fish, he's not a good poser lol, he show bit irregular scaling at body, fins are not too great either, bit roundish, body too short compare to the his fins, so he's out from future breeder list


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Wow so nice!!! Mine just are just turning 2 months lol no marbles yet! Maybe they are just behind the curve haha I think yours are just super growers! Or you give them fishy steroids! I feed mine as often as I can too, 3-4x a day now! Grow babies grow!!

Ps Will any of these guys be for sale and if so do you ship to US via a trans shipper?


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

How did I miss this thread! Those are some beautiful results you got, I love them!!
Male 1 and 3 are my faves, I cant wait to see the next generation :-D


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

thanks , more pics bombing soon lol, still have 100-ish fry on grow out from this spawn, i need to jar them so i can select some future breeder.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

took some fat females from sorority for photos session ,these are the from the batch of first grower, still have some females in other tub along with the males, can't clearly see their egg sack yet, i am bit worry though for their small caudal, perhaps because they still young? they are now in varied size from 2,5cm bo -3.5 cm bo, i haven't pick my next breeder yet , but i see some options, which would you choose ?


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## TigressBetta (Nov 17, 2015)

Im loving the results of your spawn, sooo gorgeous


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

got time to snap 4 male i just jarred, here are them,there's 2 that got two photos, lol seems both good enough, i just put it up all the way.

i love the yellow fin one, but his caudal ray is not evenly shared,but he got strong peduncle which i like very much, nice sharp D caudal, dorsal is average, could be nicer,will see if he can work that when he gets older. 

i plan to breed the last photo with a cambo female i got from his father with a cambo female, or to cross him with his sister which have same pattern. his topline is not too smooth, i just hope its not genetic, the top photo will make a good breeder too but i still have alot of option, since there's still some in growing tub, that i haven't jar.li


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## Scribbler (Mar 11, 2016)

You got so many beautiful fish in this spawn! Congrats!


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

You problem seems to be too many options.  Good job rising those tutti frutti fishes. Is there o color from the rainbow missing?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Thanks scribbler, @dcg , yes too many option lol, i see 5 potential color pattern to try to lock the color pattern, like the yellow fins with white body, red fins with white body, yellow fins with black band with blue irids body, butterfly marble patterned pair, and the random patterned marble pair, and yes i have no life LOL, i keep remind myself to put it simple, but i am working so many type now, butterfly hm, koi plakat, marble dragon scale, half giant dtpk with sturdy body, red line of hm,ct,pk . cooper yes damn cooper been trying 3 months now, not any single spawn success lol, and last but most interesting for me ctpk line, solid red CTPK, can you imagine how badass will it look? Cherry red CTPk!!! 4 more month and one more cross, it will be done!! And then the ultimate project, DTCTPK with dragon scale and giant geno,just imagine the dorsal rays!!!! Errmh..last project a CT line with over halfmoon caudal + DT gene's infused dorsal!!!! LOL, am i asking too much?


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Not sure if you are breeding for show or not. That white with red fins is AMAZING!! But I don't like the Caudal on that one.

I think you have the delema every breeder faces at one point or another. Colors or Form. I would breed for form if i was you right now. Here are the ones I loved the best. 








with









or 









I think I may have put 2 males there. The first one tricked me because of the short fins  thought it was a lass... lol oh well
I think your form/finnage will suffer here. But there is also a good chance that it will improve, mainly because of the female.








with 







or 









I think these have the best form. Depends on which color you want to be honest

and lastly









with 









I'm not so sure on the form on the female since she isn't flaring or spread. He is a very nice ALMOST male. But I personally like to keep colors together and see how I can improve the form while getting consistent colors. Your fems hav better form than your boys.

Good luck!!! The fish are great!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

thanks a lot alec!! i am trying to breed by show standard, and i agree i have the dilemma over choosing form and color, but i absolutely going for form, i just lost one i prepare for a future breeder its a male with great body shape and butterfly pattern fish alike the 3rd pic from your post, idk what happen to him, he just disappear from his solitary tank, i tried to find it's remain but can't find it. i haven't really picking but one, and there still about 70-80 in growing out tub, i will jar them soon to pick form, then the best one will be back in solitary bucket for power growing, since they are giants, i want to try to raise the best one to at least 5cm BO before 5 months old.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

the number six male you post had marbled, i call him Little Flat Head,lol, so far he's my most favorite but not for his form but just for his personality when i flare him he will go merry round the solitary tank lmao, he's growing abit bigger now, and have gone 2nd change on his fins, part of his fins has developed butterfly pattern from whole yellow to a bit brown-ish


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

He is looking good! I'd still pair him with the white/yellow finned female. You will def get some interesting looking bettas if you pair him with that blue fem. She does have good form.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Will do, he will have polygamy later!! :lol:


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

Some men get all the fun -_- 

Good luck!


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## RyRyElle (Mar 16, 2016)

are you going to be selling any of the spawn? Or do you do that for future spawns? I'm in Missouri and am really going to be looking for one mid summer. I have quite a bit of experience and am just now getting back into the hobby. I used to have two betta tanks and a 50 gallon saltwater. If you are going to sale please let me know! They would be spoiled rotten! I was just looking for one as a pet while I'm in my dorm room


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## RyRyElle (Mar 16, 2016)

liamthen said:


> jarred a couple of males here some pictures, all of them marble like crazy, haven't found time to make females photos but i'll do it soon, females has very short caudal, will look if they can grow more caudal when they're older


I'm really bad with form and all but that last one is a jaw dropper!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Yes, will be selling all but a couple future breeder for f2,to keep the line going


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

some more males,sorry for the blur pics,1st pic and 4th are same fish, the 2nd fish of this post looks alike the father.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

bonus pic, an offshot fry from father crossing with a cambo hmpk female


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## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Love those speckles!


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## alecmerkel (Sep 17, 2015)

That is a gorgeous fish!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> Love those speckles!


was zoomed photo, actual look would just like cambo with butterfly pattern lol


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i almost jarred all the males, some more photos of them, i really love the yellow one, he is showy too, so one whole collage for him, he almost consumed all the alphabet i use to name the file for so many good photos of him lol, they seem to be the the most neat of all, some green/turquoise multi with yellow fins are nice as well. I love the traditional blue red multi male as well for his balanced form and fins spread.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

Omg!!! They all look so nice! I want all of them


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Absolutely beautiful! :notworthy:


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

first pair of breeder from this spawn is decided, Little Flathead and Princess Flathead these two if their body phenotype is genetic will create one new line i call Flathead Clan :-D , standard wise i think the body form is a fault? out of all males, this one i like most for his personality, almost 4 months old, perhaps need to wait one more month to spawn them.
the other purpose of pairing this pair is to see if my guess are true that their flat head phenotype is not genetic.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

had post the 1st photo but since it already grow some better fins can't resist to repost it lol, 2nd and 3rd photo has yellow fins with royal blue and turquoise hue on body, the one with the royal blue body look promising, not too many ray splitting as well, idk how the male in 4th photo have only one ventral


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

made 3 test spawn on 3 pairs from this spawn, it seems spawning young 4 months old is not a good idea, fry are weak ,they took 3 extra days to swim properly, of 3 spawn one made it, they are about 8-9 days old now, and have show the growth jump giant fry normally has.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'm in love with these fish! I'm curious if any of them will be going to new homes? I would be interested in girls ^^


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

MysticSky22301 said:


> I'm in love with these fish! I'm curious if any of them will be going to new homes? I would be interested in girls ^^


Yes, i can part with some girls, but i live in asia :|, so it will cost you quite a bit for transhipping fee and handling +shipping fee at your part. Have you ever import before? i am not quite sure about the amount you need to pay at your part, at my part transhipper will charge $7/fish to send it to USA

by the way 2 girls photo , first girl already bred to a HMPK blackcooper male, i hope the female will fix the body shape of my black cooper line.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I didn't know you were in Asia but domestic shipping is about 15$ from most locations to me. We could speak to a trans shipper and see what they say


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I've noticed I'm partial to a slightly curved top line I don't know why it just looks good to me, no bumps though


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

me as well, i like smooth curved top line , but not too steep, i am trying to breed for show standard, very lucky find this forum before i started, so i get the right read from many experienced breeder's post here .


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I need to get better pictures of my Bettas but I'm technically going to work on 2 lines, my black and orange/ red butterfly and my boyfriend decided on a long finned Cambodian with EE I can honestly say this is going to get complicated haha


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

long finned EE is mesmerizing, i am working of 2 kind of EE atm, long finned and shortfinned lavender/pastel color,have a long finned lavender crossed to a pk pastel EE...while the pastel/ PKEE pairs need to wait for the male to grow up more size, erhmm..tempted to put spawn logs of them ,but i have so much spawn log going already hahaha


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

Yeah I haven't started breeding I'm working on getting everything set up but I have most of my starter fish already. What am I going to do with the cellophane Babys from the Cambodian line? I'm not a fan unless they have striking bright rays and possibly a color wash. The boy in my icon Hallow is actually the first in my butterfly project his first spawn will be a test run with my blue and black Mable hpmk Thea. if I get any good girls out of that I was going to breed them to my new boy mouse a stunning little black crown tail with a barly visible red butterfly stripe


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

you can cross the cellophane baby from your cambodian line with fish that carry dominant colors, male on this spawn carry cambodian gene as well, i spawned him with a red cambodian base female, and i got a couple of cambo female, so perhaps you can use a fish that has spread irids genes, or cross the cellophane girl with marble male then let the marble factor works the colors for you.


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I was thinking of adding my solid red with white fringe into the cabo line to darken the colors but he's kind of old about a year still fiesty though and quite active


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

I could run the Cambo male with the marble female too and go from there


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Yes, result for doing crossing will be very nice, you'll get some with red butterfly fins, so color wise its a good mix,i know because i done it before recently.

Today i put 4 pair from this spawn together , i want to see how the f2 looks like later


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## dottcomm (Apr 30, 2016)

Beautiful spawn you have there. Marble is really hard to predict 
Full of surprises yah...



liamthen said:


> some more males,sorry for the blur pics,1st pic and 4th are same fish, the 2nd fish of this post looks alike the father.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

yip very unprdictable!! but thank god i only get one cello female from this spawn.

i am going f2 already for these fry , but will concentrate on finishing other spawn log i made hahaha, so no more spawn log from this line for now, perhaps will do one later.
in case anyone curious what pair i use for f2 spawns here are them :

i am curious if i can retain the deep blue irids on body at fry from the blue +yelow fin pairs later


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

liamthen said:


> i am curious if i can retain the deep blue irids on body at fry from the blue +yelow fin pairs later


I'm sure you will, blue on body is very dominant... at least until marble gene kicks in.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

an update on littleflathead, he's stunted to HMPK size compared to his other siblings that have bigger size, but he's my favourite male,although by show standard i think he can't pass the requirement needed. in short i just want a reason to upload his photo :-D:-D:-D, i really like his looks


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## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

Wow he's pretty


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## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

liamthen said:


> i really like his looks


So... you are racing for 360 degree spread? :lol:


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

dcg said:


> So... you are racing for 360 degree spread? :lol:


lol no, but i strive to breed to a well balanced looks,so any kind of tail type is good, my personal taste is a nice big caudal but it has to be balanced to other fins and body,360 degree spread is ridiculous i think haha.
my current plan still the same, to have a awesome deep solid red line of everything , so far already has red CT,HM,CTPK and HMPK, but so far the color is far from ideal to my taste,its will be a hard long way to go


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