# FIshless cycling: Finally ahve nitrIte and nitrAte readings, so what next??



## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Hello, everyone! I am currently a very happy camper because I have been attempting my first fishless cycling in a 5-gallon tank for 2 months and I FINALLY have nitrIte and nitrAte reading!! :welldone: Here are the readings from just a few minutes ago:

-Ammonia: approx. 2-3ppm
-NitrIte: .5ppm
-NitrAte: in between 5 and 10ppm (it's difficult to determine the exact number on the API Freshwater Master Test Kit color scale)

I just added a couple more drops of Ammonia (literally just 2 drops) to feed the beneficial bacteria. I have three questions now: 1.) What can I expect now for the fishless cycling pattern and how do I know when the cycle is completely done? 2.) When can I add Tommy to his new spacious home? and 3.) How do I add him safely?

Thanks, everyone!:-D


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Once you have the nitrite spike you want to decrease the amount of ammonia you add by half.
Once your nitrite falls....and you have nitrate...

Stop adding the ammonia and allow the process to happen on its own-Keep testing every day until the ammonia, nitrite are 0ppm and nitrate at least 5ppm for a few days without any spikes-this should only take 4-5 days-Then make a 50% water change with light vacuum in all areas you can reach without moving anything.

Acclimate the Betta and add....monitor water prams and make 50% water only with ammonia, nitrite 0.25ppm or greater-This is over and above your regular weekly 50% with vacuum.

Not uncommon to have a spike or two until everything settles down since you usually colonize more BB than you need with the fishless cycle for a low bioload-due to the BB self limiting factors


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for all your help, OFL!!  Will keep everyone updated, as will Tommy!


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Awesome doesnt it feel great to know your almost there !!!! I did a fish in cycle and it was more stress on me than my fish I do believe...lol He loved all the water changes and following the gravel vac around and I bet he misses but having as many water changes since it cycled but he is keeping busy this week working on a bubble nest.

It took my 5 gallon around 2 months too cycle as well but so worth it, Tommy is going to love his new home , it took 9 days for mine to finish the cycle after I started to get 5.0 nitrate readings or more each day.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for your input, Perseusmom!! I am *SO* excited that I am almost there... I had to start all over after waiting over a month the first time around (I had accidentally stalled the cycle that time), so when I saw the nitrIte test water turn purple yesterday, my face was first like this: :shock:, and then this was me: :blueyay:!! haha, I will keep everyone updated!


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I had to start over too cause of a power outage when I was a month in so I know just how you feel, yeaaaaa so excited for you !!!!


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Yay, so happy for you and Tommy! I have low ammonia and nitrite readings right now, but nitrate was 5.0 last time I checked! I'm doing a fishless cycle though.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks, everyone!! It feels good to know that you all support me and can empathize with my excitement  By the way, after the cycle is complete, what percent PWC do I need to do before adding Tom to his new and spacious abode?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

I haven't done this yet, but I was told to do like an 80% change... Hopefully someone else will answer.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

That's what I had heard to do, too. If no one else answers, I'll just surf this forum because I know that many others have probably asked that same question. Regardless, I now feel like an official aquarist!


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Yeah 80 percent sounds about right...since I did a fish in cycle I didnt have to do that. But once you do get Tommy in his new home keep checking your levels each day to make sure the tank is staying stable.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks, Perseusmom!! I will keep you all updated, and I'll post some pics too once Tom is in his new home


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

*Another question... readings are changing*

Ok... I just retested the water params, and here's what I got:

-Ammonia: ~3.0 ppm
-NitrIte: 5.0 ppm (the highest nitrIte reading on the color chart-- the test tube water was a fuschia color)
-NitrAte: 5.0 ppm (the second to lowest nitrAte reading on the color chart)

Why are my nitrIte levels increasing with the nitrAte levels staying at 5.0 ppm?? Please don't tell me that my cycle is going to stall


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

p.s. the PH is approx. 7.8-7.9, can anyone explain what is going on and if I need to do a PWC?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

No worries, TR. The nitrate increase always lags behind the nitrite spike.

However, having such high nitrite can slow your cycle. Do a 50% change and get your nitrite back to where you can monitor it.

That will get your ammonia down to about 1.5ppm. Some keepers like to cut back on ammonia after the nitrite spike (OFL does). I keep my ammonia up until the nitrite goes down, then stop dosing.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thank you so much, Hallyx!! I am about to retest the water params now and then I'll do that. Will keep you updated here!


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

It looks like the ammonia has gone down a little bit and like the nitrAtes have slightly increased. The ammonia is now about 1-2 ppm, while the nitrAte is about 6-7ish ppm. Regardless, the nitrIte is still maxed out, so I'm doing a PWC now to bring those levels down a little bit.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Ok, here are the water params after the PWC:

-Ammonia: ~.5 to 1.0 ppm
-NitrIte: ~1.5 ppm
-NitrAte: ~5.0 ppm

Yay  I may or may not redose the ammonia. I'll wait and see what happens before I do.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Yesterday I put precisely *one* drop of ammonia into the tank, and, even after doing that 50% PWC yesterday, today the nitrIte levels already are up to where they were yesterday. *However,* the ammonia is now starting to decrease and the nitrAte levels are increasing )))) I am so happy that I am in the home stretch! Here are my levels now...

-Ammonia: .25 ppm
-NitrIte: at least 5.0 ppm (that's as high as the scale goes; the test tube water is fuschia color again)
-NitrAte:about 30 ppm

Sorry if this is kind of turning into a journal of the latter stages of my cycle!! I just really don't want to lose the cycle now that I'm this far into it! 

Anyway, I might have to do another PWC tomorrow (don't have time to do it tonight). Or should I just leave it alone now?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

If you have an air pump & air stone throw it in the tank and turn it UP.


You want to add EXTRA oxygen to your tank for the new guests & leave everything else alone. No water change at all.
Your results for ammonia & nitrites should be lower tomorrow morning.
Nitrate levels should increase, but that's what you WANT to see.



 If you use the airstone on full blast like I suggest... on your next water tests, you will see....
 Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 2.0ppm (Ideally this number will be 0) 
Nitrate = guessing 50-60ppm? 


Also.....


Do you have any live plants in the tank?
What is the current temperature of the tank?


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

MSG said:


> If you have an air pump & air stone throw it in the tank and turn it UP.
> 
> 
> You want to add EXTRA oxygen to your tank for the new guests & leave everything else alone. No water change at all.
> ...


Thanks for the reply, MSG!! I do not have an air pump & air stone; I am using the Hagen Elite Mini Filter - it has a tube that delivers oxygen into the filter's compartment, though.

I just retested the water params, and pretty much nothing has changed since my last post from yesterday; the ammonia is still .25ppm; the nitrite is still really high, like 5ppm; and the nitrate is way high, like 50-60ppm.

I do not have any live plants in the tank, & I have the temperature cranked up because I was told that doing so would speed up the cycling process. Anyway, the underwater heater is set to approx. 88 degrees F.

What should I do?? :-?


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Now that you mentioned the model filter you're using, this makes complete sense why your cycle has progressed so slowly. Granted you didn't use the "seeded media" method, but still seems a bit slow.

I'm not familiar with that model, so I did some research on it, and I think I have a desktop fountain pump just like it. 



A Hagen Mini Elite is designed for 1-3G tank. Based on what I konw, a pump filter that size EVEN when established, will have such a small amount of b-bacteria on that little "butter sized" packet of a internal sponge, I'm not sure it's going to be able to maintain the bio-load of more than 2 fish.
 If you insist on using this filter after you're done cycling, you will need to eventually buy some live plants to help out depending on what you stock the tank with. 

I would keep an eye out for a tried & true HOB filter in case you want to slap another one onto the tank. You can never have enough filtration, but that's just my opinion. 



For the time being, just try the air pump method I recommended, it should decrease your results tomorrow. The addition of oxygen will help speed things up, it won't hurt/slow anything down.
I'm not sure if anyone else is using this particular mini elite, but if you are, feel free to chime in.



My 10G tank was @ 95F-97F instead of 89F. I did turn the heater up all the way, but never thought it would get that hot. Regardless of the temperature, it didn't hurt anything. To kill the b-bacteria I think you have to exceed at least 120 degrees
Once the Nitrites show up, then you blast the tank with oxygen. I tried it, worked great & mentioned it to ProDrum & I think Fairy too.
Keep in mind when I speed cycled my tank in about 6-7 days. I used about a half a kleenex box sized amount of filter media distributed among 5 HOB filters.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

TigerRegalia said:


> Sorry if this is kind of turning into a journal of the latter stages of my cycle!!


Other than your stress, I'm glad it has. It's a great opportunity for us all to learn something. 



TigerRegalia said:


> ....Hagen Elite Mini Filter - it has a tube that delivers oxygen into the filter's compartment, though.


That's what I use (because it's so quiet)and it's adequate even for 5g and up. The air-bleed is a nice feature for cycling and for stability of the cycle once established. You should be running it full blast. Its only shortcoming, as MSG points out, is the small amount of filter foam for the bacteria to colonize. I've added foam to the intake and outlet of my Mini-Elites in order to support a larger colony. Remind me to post a picture.

However, in one 5g, I have only the unmodified Elite-Mini and a few plants. It's eating 2.0ppm ammonia every couple of days as I wait to stock that tank.

The warmth is good for bacteria. Keep it up. 

Try this. Stir up the gravel, then do a very large water change >80%. You won't hurt your cycle; there aren't many bacteria in the water column. Get a pinch of fishfood, a few grains of salt (any kind), and some seashell scrapings or other calcium. Put that in your filter to feed the bacteria some minerals. Then dose 2.0ppm ammonia and continue.

This is a new refinement that I just learned from Thunderloon, a very experienced member. Let me know if it helps.

MSG's suggestion of adding plants is good. It will help moderate nitrates as well as offering more surface area for bacteria.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for the tips to the both of you! I just retested the water, and so far they look exactly the same as yesterday. I haven't tested the nitrAte yet, but thus far the ammonia and the nitrIte are the same. 

I am definitely going to try out the things you have both mentioned, as this cycle has been difficult! I can add some more filter foam to my filter if I need to, too. 

As for the live plants-- are the plants they sell at PetSmart healthy and good to use? I was considering buying a couple of the live Amazon Sword plants from there that are packaged in plastic tubes, but wasn't sure if they are good quality, healthy, etc.? Any experience with those?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I've purchased three different styles of Anubias from Petsmart...small, medium and long-leaf (longifolia). Also one sword-thing, which is doing well in a terracotta pot, and some wisteria, which is ssslloowwlllyyy dying (I think it's my warm temps >78*)

No snails (guaranteed by Top Fin). The grow gel is easy to wash off with warm water. 

The have Java fern. Amazon sword, money plant and other substrate-planted types. A little pricey, but they work well for me.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> That's what I use (because it's so quiet)and it's adequate even for 5g and up. The air-bleed is a nice feature for cycling and for stability of the cycle once established. You should be running it full blast. Its only shortcoming, as MSG points out, is the small amount of filter foam for the bacteria to colonize. I've added foam to the intake and outlet of my Mini-Elites in order to support a larger colony. Remind me to post a picture.


Hallyx, could you please post a picture of this for me? Thanks a bunch!!


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

I went to PetSmart and bought a medium Amazon Sword plant. It was $8!! What ticks me off is that half of the leaves in the tube were either discolored (the instructions said to prune those) or detached from the roots D:<

Anyway.. I did an ~80% water change, stirred up the gravel, planted what was left of the Amazon Sword plant into the gravel, and then added the salt, food, and seashell scrapings into the filter's compartment. I then dosed the ammonia. I will test the water params in the morning and let everyone know what they are then.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Sorry you got a bad plant. Take it back. Petsmart doesn't mess around. They'll refund.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Sorry you got a bad plant. Take it back. Petsmart doesn't mess around. They'll refund.


I may or may not take it back- the closest PetSmart is 25-30 min away from here, so it's hard on my gas money. I didn't know they were good about refunds though, so I may take it back. However, I do just want to get this cycle over with!

I just retested the water params... and I am trying not to give up:

Ammonia: .5 ppm
NitrIte: maxed out
NitrAte: in between 5 and 10 ppm; perhaps around 7 ppm

I thought I had dosed the ammonia last night to 2 ppm (I measured it), so I don't know if it's already gone down since last night or if I didn't put enough in. But the Amazon Swords are in the gravel now, and I have the tank's light on, so hopefully those will start producing some oxygen soon to bring down the nitrite levels.

Add more ammonia? PWC? Sit back and wait?


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

PS When I say the Nitrite is maxed out, I mean the color isn't on the chart - the color that results is a pretty magenta color rather than a dark fuchsia as represented on the API color chart for the highest PPM. I will retest the params later and post a picture of the test tubes.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Oh, I hope your's finishes soon! It is SO frustrating. Mine actually finished yesterday and Hallyx can probably tell you that it was a long and tiring process for me.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

labloverl said:


> Oh, I hope your's finishes soon! It is SO frustrating. Mine actually finished yesterday and Hallyx can probably tell you that it was a long and tiring process for me.


Thanks for the encouragement!! That's what I needed to hear right about now  I hope it finishes soon too!!


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## MSG (May 8, 2012)

Eh? Why did you buy the one that came with the brown leaves? If I had NO choice but to buy from the tubed plants, I wouldn't choose the one with discolored foliage.



Just like fish, plants as well.... I will always do what I can to pick the healthiest looking one to bring home. The one you bought they typically throw away at the end of the week or when the new shipment arrives.
 

Also what is the scientific name of that plant? Heard the tubed greens often come mislabeled, but if you haven't tossed the package yet, make sure you research the plant and it's requirements.
 Hm... For $8 bucks you could have bought 2 bundles of Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) & 1 bunch of water primrose (Ludwigia palustris). 



When it comes to anything, I like extra options in case something goes wrong. Some plants might do better with little to no care, not sure about an Amazon though. I think swords may require root tab fertilizers and good amount of light from a new 6500k rated bulb for at least 8-10 hours.... it will grow HUGE. Not sure how fast before it will outgrow a 5G.


For a tank your size, I would have recommended the Wisteria.
 I was about to buy a few bundles that I saw on Friday, but glad someone else on the forum mentioned a secret sale going on for Saturday that might enable me to get an extra discount. I may grab $10 worth in the next couple hours, but we'll see if I have time to get down there.

I'm glad you mentioned the Hagen Mini Elite filter, but I wouldn't have attempted using it to cycle a 5G without ADDITIONAL filter media. 

Very curious to see how Hally modified his to get it to provide adequate filtration. I think that filter is too small, but 1 betta doesn't create too much filth. 



 The Whisper 3i that comes with the 1.5G Tetra WaterWonders tank..... it filters about 20 GPH, but with a addition of a more powerful air pump and possibly drilling an extra hole like Hally recommended for better water distribution on the media, I should be able to get 50GPH
 

Hagen Elite Mini Underwater Filter
Size: 58 GPH
Dimensions: 1.75"W X 1.5"D X 3.5"H
Aquarium Size: For Tanks Up To 3 Gallons
 All I know is my little 1.5G tank is already cycled. Only took took about 2 days with the help of the "established" media jammed in the Whisper 3i.

I'm not sure what to recommend on caring for a decaying sword plant.

A photo of the sword would be helpful to judge the condition.
Do you have a photo of your 5G in cycle?
 

Do you have any other tanks you can pull media from?
Do you have any other filters/sponges/aquarium related items? Anything that can be added to the tank for extra b-bacteria to grow on will only help.
In the meantime, just follow what Hally recommends since he has actual experience with your particular filter.
My methods are more experimental, but they've all worked for me.
 
Good luck.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I too have had to resort to buying plants-in-tubes from Petsmart because the (closer) Petco has nothing I'd trust. My only other alternative fish-store is much farther away and has a small, not that great selection. Those plants-in-tubes are hard to evaluate through the packaging; they're even hard to unwrap at home. Maybe I should consider myself lucky that all those Anubias and the one sword came out OK.

The Whisper 3i is a badly designed item which can't possibly work as advertised because only the top 25% of the media sees any water flow at all. My modification only improves the filtering. It does not make it _good_ compared to other sponge filters on the market. My modified 3i will only ever be capable of 20gph (or whatever it claims). My mod did nothing to increase the flow. Even a larger pump would not double the flow.

The Hagen, on the other hand, is over-pumped and under-media-ed, as befits a water-fountain pump. I did mention that my uninhabited 5g features an unmodified Mini Elite, a few plants (Anubias, and a lonely sword in a pot, no more) and no substrate. It eats 2.0ppm ACE ammonia every two days.

I've heard that swords will look sickly for a time and then recover. Hang in there, Tiger.

I'll really try to get that pic, tomorrow. In the mean time, this is what I did:

I took a 1/2 inch thick piece of coarse filter foam 3in long x ~5in wide. I formed it into a 3in long tube and sewed it up, including one end. The open end fits over the filter outlet with no fasteners.

I used to have a piece of foam under the filter at the inlet, but my fish likes to hang out there. That's in my cycled 2.5g.

In my divided 5g, I have a similar filter setup but with additional foam floating around in between two craft-mesh dividers. It's adequate for two Betta.

@TR---regarding your nitrite. I never had too much nitrite in the tanks I've cycled. I've only heard of it here. Maybe you should try OFL's suggestion and cut back on your ammonia. Other than not enough filter area (and it doesn't take much) I can't reason out why it should be.

I'm going to check a recent article. Back later.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

MSG said:


> Eh? Why did you buy the one that came with the brown leaves? If I had NO choice but to buy from the tubed plants, I wouldn't choose the one with discolored foliage.


I bought it because I needed a live plant for my cycle and didn't know what to get. I had read the Sword could live in slightly higher temperatures and that someone's Wisteria was dying due to their water's temperature, so that's why I didn't get a Wisteria. I looked through the tubed plants the best that I could, but, like Hallyx said, it is difficult to really tell what their condition is through the tubing.



MSG said:


> Hm... For $8 bucks you could have bought 2 bundles of Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) & 1 bunch of water primrose (Ludwigia palustris).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PetSmart is overpriced in every item they carry, but it is my only option, as there are no other pet stores around here (and this PetSmart is 25-30 min away as it is). I didn't know that I would also need to buy fertilizer... I am a graduate student which means I don't have a lot of money, but I will look into what I need to do to care for live plants. I was wanting a plant that doesn't require much care at all, and I thought I had remembered reading somewhere at one time or another that Swords didn't take much... but I could be (and probably am) wrong on this.




MSG said:


> I'm not sure what to recommend on caring for a decaying sword plant.
> 
> A photo of the sword would be helpful to judge the condition.
> Do you have a photo of your 5G in cycle?
> ...


I can take a picture of what I planted that was left of the sword when I get back to my apartment tomorrow. I tossed the brown and detached leaves, though. I can also take a picture of my tank in cycle. The only other tank that I have is what Tom is currently housed in--a 1-gallon tank that he is actually quite happy in for the time being. I've heard that you can't reliably cycle a 1-gallon tank, which is why I change his water 3 times per week.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> I too have had to resort to buying plants-in-tubes from Petsmart because the (closer) Petco has nothing I'd trust. My only other alternative fish-store is much farther away and has a small, not that great selection. Those plants-in-tubes are hard to evaluate through the packaging; they're even hard to unwrap at home. Maybe I should consider myself lucky that all those Anubias and the one sword came out OK.


These tube plants really are difficult to evaluate! It makes things more difficult in the long run, and plus I am a complete newbie to both fishless cycling and planted aquariums. The employees at PetSmart have never truly helped me with any questions I've ever had, either. I'll never forget when I was a newbie to bettas and the fish dept. guy told me that betta are native to mud puddles in Thailand and thus are much happier in the smaller tanks (i.e., .5 gallon bowls). Then, when I brought in my sick Iggy, he gave me some advice that ended up playing into his later death  *shudder*




Hallyx said:


> I've heard that swords will look sickly for a time and then recover. Hang in there, Tiger.


Thanks for the encouragement! 




Hallyx said:


> I took a 1/2 inch thick piece of coarse filter foam 3in long x ~5in wide. I formed it into a 3in long tube and sewed it up, including one end. The open end fits over the filter outlet with no fasteners.
> 
> I used to have a piece of foam under the filter at the inlet, but my fish likes to hang out there. That's in my cycled 2.5g.


Thanks for this! I'll see what I can do, but I will wait on your picture before I try anything, as I am a visual learner 




Hallyx said:


> @TR---regarding your nitrite. I never had too much nitrite in the tanks I've cycled. I've only heard of it here. Maybe you should try OFL's suggestion and cut back on your ammonia. Other than not enough filter area (and it doesn't take much) I can't reason out why it should be.


I am going to stop with the ammonia doses. I remember OFL told me to just sit back from the cycle and let it work itself out. I'm glad you all are helping me out!!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Now that you've stopped dosing ammonia, let me know how it goes.

Here's a not very clear picture of my foam-tube bacteria condo. Turns out, it's a 3in x 6 in foam tube (1/2in foam) rolled into a 3in long tube and sewn.

Probably overkill in a 5g with substrate, plants and decor. It totally stifles any current. It's still less foam than the sponge filters I use in my 3gals.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for the picture, Hallyx! I'll see what I can do... I'm not promising anything, though; I am not very handy when it comes to fixing things.

Here are some pictures of my tank in cycle and of the sword I bought. I think I am going to ask for a refund the next time I'm headed over in the direction of PetSmart.

I know the sword looks terrible... it's probably already dead


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Great news!! I have left the tank alone without redosing any ammonia, and I just now rechecked the water params:

-Ammonia: .25 ppm
-NitrIte: :-D in between .25 and .5 ppm!! :-D
-NitrAte: 40 ppm

Looks like it's *FiNaLLy* starting to level out!!!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Expect the nitrites to increase some before they go down. 

You're on the home stretch.

That sword doesn't look terminal. It'll love all that nitrate.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Expect the nitrites to increase some before they go down.
> 
> You're on the home stretch.
> 
> That sword doesn't look terminal. It'll love all that nitrate.


Thanks, Hallyx!! I am going to go by the store soon and pick up some root tab fertilizer. I would also like some water wisteria since I've heard it doesn't require much maintenance.

I'll keep this updated!


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

*Questions about the filter*

Right now for the cycle's sake I have the filter (Hagen Elite Mini) on full-blast, which obviously creates a lot of water current. I plan to baffle it with some extra filter foam, but when it is time for acclimate Tom to the tank, should I leave the filter on full blast? Or turn it down to low?

Also, the outside of the air tube on the filter has been gathering some build-up (mold? BB?) at the base where it connects to the filter. I have been wiping it off because it looks gross, but I was wondering if I should be leaving it alone? What is this build-up and is it safe for Tom to be in contact with when I acclimate him?

Last question (for now ;-))!-- How often should I clean out the filter's internal foam? Does it need to be cleaned after the cycle is fully complete and before I acclimate Tom?

Thanks :-D


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

*My attempt at baffling the filter*

Btw... I just attempted to baffle the filter by rubber banding some extra filter foam around the outflow nozzle. It has greatly reduced the flow, but there are still bubbles seeping out causing some rippling on the water's surface. It's minimal though. Does this look like it'll work??:


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

TigerRegalia said:


> Btw... I just attempted to baffle the filter by rubber banding some extra filter foam around the outflow nozzle. It has greatly reduced the flow, but there are still bubbles seeping out causing some rippling on the water's surface. It's minimal though. Does this look like it'll work??:


 Ok the bubbles are coming from the air tube that is sticking out of the water. The flow of water pulls air in from the tube using The Venturi effect. Seal the tube or just remove it. The air bubbles will stop. I would put the foam on the intake, this will help dampen the filter and prevent your fish from getting sucked into the impeller. If it doesn't dampen enough then just put some foam on the output like you have done, but make sure you do put the foam on the intake. BTW do not wash your foam filter. When your doing a water change just pull the filter out and squeeze it into the bucket of water that you just siphoned out. Then replace back into your filter. If you wash it in tap water and over do the washing you will have to redo the cycle again.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

goldfishyman said:


> Ok the bubbles are coming from the air tube that is sticking out of the water. The flow of water pulls air in from the tube using The Venturi effect. Seal the tube or just remove it. The air bubbles will stop. I would put the foam on the intake, this will help dampen the filter and prevent your fish from getting sucked into the impeller. If it doesn't dampen enough then just put some foam on the output like you have done, but make sure you do put the foam on the intake. BTW do not wash your foam filter. When your doing a water change just pull the filter out and squeeze it into the bucket of water that you just siphoned out. Then replace back into your filter. If you wash it in tap water and over do the washing you will have to redo the cycle again.


Thank you for the tips!! I know the air tube provides the beneficial bacteria in the filter compartment with oxygen, so I am wondering if I should remove it. Your suggestion makes perfect sense though. Thanks for the tip about putting some foam on the intake too-- I would hate for Tom to get sucked up! Regarding squeezing out the filter foam into a bucket of siphoned tank water--how often do I need to do that?


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

I would only do it if there is a noticeable reduction of flow from the filter. Since its only 1 betta might take as long as 3 months to start to foul up. So maybe once a month or every other month. I usually just wait till flow slows down myself.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, goldfishyman! I will keep those things in mind.

*UPDATE*

My Ammonia and NitrIte levels are now 0 ppm :-D However, my NitrAte is about 30 ppm -- do I wait for this level to fall to about 5 ppm on its own before I acclimate Tom? Or do I need to do a PWC to bring those levels down myself?


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

TigerRegalia said:


> Thanks for the tips, goldfishyman! I will keep those things in mind.
> 
> *UPDATE*
> 
> My Ammonia and NitrIte levels are now 0 ppm :-D However, my NitrAte is about 30 ppm -- do I wait for this level to fall to about 5 ppm on its own before I acclimate Tom? Or do I need to do a PWC to bring those levels down myself?


 Nitrate will not go down on its own unless you have a de-nitrate system or plants. This is the reason for doing partial water changes. The filter handles most of the bad stuff but water changes are pretty much how you handle nitrates. Plants will work but you need a lot of plants to keep the nitrates low. Anaerobic bacteria will eat nitrates but you need a special type of filter that cultures these bacteria. These bacteria will only exist in an environment without oxygen.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

goldfishyman said:


> Nitrate will not go down on its own unless you have a de-nitrate system or plants. This is the reason for doing partial water changes. The filter handles most of the bad stuff but water changes are pretty much how you handle nitrates. Plants will work but you need a lot of plants to keep the nitrates low. Anaerobic bacteria will eat nitrates but you need a special type of filter that cultures these bacteria. These bacteria will only exist in an environment without oxygen.


Ok, thanks!! I will redose the ammonia tonight to see if the cycle will process it back down to 0. If it brings the ammonia and nitrite back down to 0 by tomorrow night, I'll do a large water change before acclimating Tom into his new home!


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## goldfishyman (Jun 8, 2012)

Good luck


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

YAY! Post pics!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

TigerRegalia said:


> ....should I leave the filter on full blast? Or turn it down to low?


You can turn it down to low from here on out.



TigerRegalia said:


> Also, the outside of the air tube on the filter has been gathering some build-up .... What is this build-up and is it safe for Tom to be in contact with when I acclimate him?


Mine gets that, too (only on one filter). Last time I wiped it off with my fingers, it took a _long_ time to come back. It's just mold. Looks bad but it's no big deal. 

I leave my air-tubes in service. Bacteria like oxygen and I don't run an airstone.



TigerRegalia said:


> How often should I clean out the filter's internal foam? Does it need to be cleaned after the cycle is fully complete and before I acclimate Tom?


Never clean your filters, just rinse them in old tankwater or conditioned water. GFMan's schedule is about right; every month or two. His suggestion for putting foam under your intake is also well-advised. Use a foam block about as big as the one in your filter. You could get another block that size, slit it, and put it over your outlet. It would look and work better than what you have there in the picture. That much foam would house your bacteria even without the rest of the tank.



TigerRegalia said:


> ....if it brings the ammonia and nitrite back down to 0 by tomorrow night, I'll do a large water change before acclimating Tom into his new home!


Yep. That's exactly how it's done. GFMan is right. Changing the water (50% weekly is typical) is the easiest way to control nitrate in the absence of plants. Doesn't take a whole lot of plants, but the right kind. Weekly changes also keep the DOCs (Dissolved Organic Compounds) down.

Congratulation, TR. Sounds like you're good to go. Now that you have live nitrifying bacteria, you'll never have to cycle another tank.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

*What does this mean?*

Ok, so I redosed the ammonia on Tuesday night and waited 12 hrs to see if the cycle would take it and the nitrIte back down to 0. After 12 hrs, the nitrIte level was elevated. So I waited another 12 hrs (making 24 hrs total), and it was still around 1 ppm for the nitrIte. I just retested the water prams now, and finally the ammonia and nitrIte are back to 0, with the nitrAte around 30-40 ppm. 

Does this mean my cycle isn't done yet since it took it more than 24 hrs to get the ammonia and nitrIte back to 0?


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## LionCalie (Sep 24, 2011)

No, you should be good to go. Betta fish do not have a big ammonia output. Just do a big water change to get those nitrate levels to around 5 ppm - 10 ppm. Technically you are fully cycled when you have Ammonia and Nitrite at 0 and a decent level of Nitrates. 

The purpose of continuing to add ammonia until it is consumed within 24 hrs is to make sure you have a good sized bio-load. This is more crucial in community tanks where more than one fish will be added at a time or with a species that produces lots of waste (like Goldfish).


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

^+1

Exactly right.

(Love your avatar, LC)


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

YAY! I acclimated Tom to his new abode yesterday  He has been on patrol, swimming around and investigating every little object, nook, and cranny very closely  I can just picture him wearing a little patrol hat and flashlight  I am going to have a mini photo shoot today, so I'll upload those pics then!

Thanks for the immense help, everyone--this has been such a pain LOL 3 months in the making!

Btw, a 50% water change 1x/week should suffice, correct?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Yay!!! It's a great feeling isn't it? I was so happy when my 5 gallon cycled and I was able to go get a new fish to add to the family. He's doing well, so I'll soon be adding a neighbor across the divider.

1 50% per week is fine.


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks for the tip, labloverl! Tommy is very happy  Here are some pics I took today. The third one makes me laugh; Tommy was sitting there watching me and posing as I snapped a picture of his new home :lol: Aren't his eyes so expressive, though? PS He's a tail-biter, so that's the reason for his rear fin's slight scraggly-ness. He goes through phases of it being completely healed and then he'll bite it off. Maybe that will change now that he's in a 5-gallon tank, though!

The last pic is a picture of what I have sitting on the dresser in front of his tank--I cut it out from a Tom's potato chip bag (with an added fish-eye lens effect from my camera) :-D


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## TigerRegalia (Jan 28, 2012)

For anyone who's interested... Tommy made a bubble nest just a couple of days after being in his new home :-D And up until now I thought he just wasn't the bubblenest-making type! It makes my heart and soul smile to see him be happy and to watch him flourish!


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Awwww!  He looks just like my Sawyer. Sawyer never made a nest either until he was in a hospital tank with no current. His 10 gallon just moves too much.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Wow that is a huge bubble nest, so happy for you and Tommy for loving his new home !!!!!


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## whimsicalbrainpan (Aug 4, 2012)

It looks like he loves his new home very much. Congrats!


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