# Don't hate me. (big rant)



## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

*Before you jump at me, please know this is not directed at all members nor is it directed at anyone in particular.*
Also, this rant came out bigger then I thought. Be prepared for a long read.

I'm not very happy with this site lately, since I've joined, its gotten harsher on some of the comments.

Me and my friend joined in hopes of meeting nice people who we could share our fish love with and learn from each other.

Looks like we pecked into the wrong site. My friends deleted her albums and is calling it quit, because several members I won't mention jabbed at her when all she really asked was if it was safe to put her pearl gourami in with her bettas.

*Now I understand that everyone wants the fish to be happy and healthy*, I do as well, and so does she. She has alot of experience with fish keeping. 

Might I just add that what the people said about the pearl gourami is false, they are _not_ aggressive, she's looked it up, looked in books, and even asked a person who breeds them. She has a female and they are shy and timid, only the males are aggressive, and that's dearing breeding.

This site has took a turn down harsh ally on the newbies who come in, and I'm not liking it. I can understand it if they do something stupid like put a male and female together to breed and then take off for a 2 week vacation or something.

But honestly, over a pearl gourami? Over 3 guppies and 2 female bettas? Not _all_ fish have it drilled into they're brain to kill.

The two female betta inquired have kept together since the first of March, and then her grandfather has 3 in a 5gal tank, if there was anyone going to die it'd happen already.

Keeping the two girls together with three male guppies is the same as a sorority. By the time they think about fighting and square off, here comes a guppy and they forget. Chill out people.

Not all bettas attack guppies either, I kept a male betta and a male guppy together for over a year, and my betta never once tried to attack the little guy, even when he was a fry. Infact, they were buddies. Fish can form friendships, and thats what these two females have done. 

Now for the ghost fish. *Don't believe what the pet stores tell you.* They'll most likely (90% of the time) do whatever it takes for you to buy either the biggest tank or whatever, because this means better sales for the shop, and probably a better paycheck for them. OR they just want to seem smart. (just because someone works in a video game shop doesn't mean they know alot about them)

Not all fish needs schools. I have two examples I have personally owned.

One, a corycat. They are supposed to be in schools of 3 or more? Maybe for most, but I've had two albino cory's (at two different times) who got on fine without any others, and they were quite happy.

Another was with a neon tetra, while I'm not certain on the schooling amount. I had ONE neon tetra, in a 50 gallon, with a giant angel fish, a giant pleco, and a good sized red tailed shark. And it lived for a good year and a half...then I moved away, so I don't know what happened after that, but still. A tiny neon tetra with those giant fish? They didn't pick on the little guy at all, infact, the angelfish adored him, and not in the food way.

Yes, fish can't tell us how they feel, but there is body language. I've grown up with many, many animals, and I've come to learn many different forms of happiness, illness, being frightened, and everything else.

Hamsters, gerbils, cats, dogs, several types of birds, goats, chickens, ducks, guinea pigs, fish and frogs. And even though I've never owned one, horses. (I lived next to some and helped take care of them)

I am familiar with the body language and expression of animals. Don't say I don't know what I'm talking about, though I could probably be proven wrong, *I don't claim to be an expert.*

I feel I've ranted enough to the members of this site.
I would really appreciate it if you guys would just say "No, <fishnamehere> can't be kept with bettas. Also, I would suggested getting a bigger tank soon, also separate the females or get 3 more females."

Don't just go "No, <fishnamehere> can't be kept with bettas, the breed is aggressive. Also, your tank is to crowded! Your fish are going to kill each other!!! You need to <insert stuff about seperating and bigger tanks or taking them back to the petstore here>"

There is a *proper* and *non-proper* way of telling people how to care for fish.
Now, I'm going to go cheer my friend up. 

Not everyone on this site lives a money-filled life, living with fiancee', parents, or in college dorms. While there's nothing wrong with it. But some of us our on the edge due to reasons we didn't choose (I'm living in the poor house because my dad decided he didn't care about me and my mom and left us to starve and and freeze, I lost all of my precious fish to him)

And ALOT of us don't have petshops just in town or down the street. The closet pet shop that carries supplies and fish for me is over an hour away, and I can't go there.

We all raise our fish differently. Heck, people are breeding and keeping they're betta's in rubbermaid bins!!!! And people are fine with it! Which, I'm fine with it too.

But really, everyone who reads this, *chill out* for the sake of the newbies. 

To people who found this harsh, mean, cruel, or whatever. *I only spoke the truth the way I've seen it. *

Side note: You can't save every betta fish in the world, I don't blame you for trying though, but this is the internet, you can only try so hard, any harder and you come off being mean.* 
Think of all the betta fish and other pet fish that died in Japan this recent week.
*


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i know, i can come off as harsh sometimes, but i don't mean it. when people say "(x-fish) can't be kept with bettas", it's usually because they've seen what can, and more often than not will happen. i had three gups, living in a divided 10 gallon with a male betta. one day, the betta somehow was over on the gup's side, and attacked my favorite. for no reason. he'd been living fine next to them, showing little, if any interest in them.

i've only seen the users here, be harsh on people who don't listen. if we give you advice, and you do the opposite repeatedly, yeah. we're gonna get harsh on you. because we're sick of giving you advice, and you throw it in our faces. thankfully, i've only seen three users get the harsh treatment on here. the users are pretty nice, otherwise.


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

I may be a bit too harsh sometimes, but I don't mean to be. Really. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I sometimes don't think about the PERSON'S feelings because I'm thinking about the fish, since they don't have a voice.


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## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> i've only seen the users here, be harsh on people who don't listen. if we give you advice, and you do the opposite repeatedly, yeah. we're gonna get harsh on you. because we're sick of giving you advice, and you throw it in our faces. thankfully, i've only seen three users get the harsh treatment on here. the users are pretty nice, otherwise.


I understand and respect that. If the person your giving advice to doesn't listen, sometimes you do need to get rough with them.



Sweeda88 said:


> I may be a bit too harsh sometimes, but I don't mean to be. Really. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I sometimes don't think about the PERSON'S feelings because I'm thinking about the fish, since they don't have a voice.


I understand, I think you should say that to BlakbirdxGyarados too.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

I understand about why people get harsh. I remember reading one old thread where the person was trying to breed betta fish but didn't post information on their problem, nor would they give straight answers. I got a bit lost in reading it all (it was a lot of pages lol) but I understood it. Personally, I'd not get harsh no matter how dodging the person is to questions... though I'm likely to make a few sarcastic comments, I know that a person's feelings reflect on how well they take care of their fish. So overall, I stay a happy person when lending advice to even the most reclusive users.


If I feel bad (and I've been going through a lot lately), I'm less likely to take better care of my fish. I still do everything I need to such as water changes or feeding, but I'm not likely to watch, play, talk, or whatever with them. They end up simply being fish, like any other regular Joe would see them.


I care about my fish more than anything. They're honestly all I have since I moved here to Florida and have no friends. I'll really miss them when I go to train for the military, too, but I know they'll be in good hands with someone who already is caring for approx. 200+ guppies, four bettas, and a few algae eaters.
I also understand they don't have a voice. But as LN93 said, body language can say a lot too. And as long as I've had my fish and as long as I've been dealing with aquarium animals, I'm sure I can understand them. But then, no one's perfect.

LittleNibbles93's said a lot I don't have the heart or mind to say lately.
And it's not exactly fun to come back to bettafish.com and have a friendly site suddenly turn foul. Apparently being offline for a while just to spend time with family, fish, and Samm was a bad idea.

LN93, I'm not calling it quits. Not completely.
I'm no longer going to offer my fishes personalities, lives, or anything on here other than what I've already done. I'll only offer advice and maybe a few compliments here and there for new betta photos.
Because I find out the hard way that I should never listen to Bettafish.com users for advice on other fish. Researching on my own seems a lot more harmless and easier anyway.


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Lol I think that thread you read by the individual, that has got to be a troll, has worked quite a few members up. Now whenever we see the same question we can't help but think about that jerk! I agree that the overall comment tone has changed after so and so posted their breeding threads. Maybe just some cool down time is needed??


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## SmokeNLark (Jul 22, 2010)

I understand and agree with what you say. Honestly though, this is an extremely nice and tolerant forum as far as forums go. And just to add some of my 2 cents about when a poster asks a question or shares a picture and gets criticism-

Many people here are newbies or get sucked in to what pet stores tell you about fish. If someone posts a pic of their betta in a 2 gallon tank with a snail, and a school of neons, people will say it is too small. That person may think they have the facts, but they don't. In this case I don't think it is a bad thing. 

This is a place where people help other people. I agree whole heartedly that it should be said nicely, but if a major mistake is being made, I think it should be told. I would hope if I was making a glaring mistake that someone would tell me so I could fix it.


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## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

monroe0704 said:


> Lol I think that thread you read by the individual, that has got to be a troll, has worked quite a few members up. Now whenever we see the same question we can't help but think about that jerk! I agree that the overall comment tone has changed after so and so posted their breeding threads. Maybe just some cool down time is needed??


You have a point, and I agree. I got alittle worked up myself.


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## shinybetta (Jul 3, 2010)

+1 to everyone else. However, neon's, corydoras, and glass catfish really need schools. They may seem fine without them, but why not give them the best happiness levels? In the wild they school for a reason, and just because they are no longer in the wild doesn't mean they lose their instincts. I don't mean to sound harsh.


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## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

shinybetta said:


> +1 to everyone else. However, neon's, corydoras, and glass catfish really need schools. They may seem fine without them, but why not give them the best happiness levels? In the wild they school for a reason, and just because they are no longer in the wild doesn't mean they lose their instincts. I don't mean to sound harsh.


I wasn't saying they shouldn't be kept in schools, I was just saying not all of them may like it.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

shinybetta said:


> +1 to everyone else. However, neon's, corydoras, and glass catfish really need schools. They may seem fine without them, but why not give them the best happiness levels? In the wild they school for a reason, and just because they are no longer in the wild doesn't mean they lose their instincts. I don't mean to sound harsh.


I'd love to get my GlassCat a few buddies, but my LFS has to special order them. They got some in recently, but they may/may not be there when they open again, and I don't know if I have the money to buy a few more.
However, in the meantime, Dragon's made a friendship with Leliia, almost as if she is his school. I just watched them for about 5-10 minutes, and he's just following her around, looking frantically for her when he loses her from his sight and swims straight back to her.
And you don't sound harsh. |D At least you're making your point and not strictly saying "You aren't allowed to do that, they need schools" which... in my opinion sounds harsh only because it's so short and the person (in this case, me) is already doing that. xD; Really, "not allowed" makes it sound like the "advice-giver" is the person's parents. Kinda crazy, but... yeah.
Again, he would be in a school from the day I got him... if only the Petsmart I got him from took better care of their fish.... Poor Ghost Catfish were yellowish except for Dragon... D: And I keep reading that it's hard to cure a GCF's diseases... I didn't want to take the chance and wake up with nice, fresh, new dead fish in my new tank.



Blah, as much as I'm typing tonight, my fingers will be aching in the morning lol.... Stress is killing meee... Must... play with fishies. |D


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

LittleNibbles93 said:


> I wasn't saying they shouldn't be kept in schools, I was just saying not all of them may like it.


Actually fish that are meant to be in schools can get very stressed and depressed if there are not the right amount of numbers. In schooling fish there are often hierarchies and different levels, depriving fish that need those hierarchies and schools is in my opinion really bad. Your cories may seem fine, but you can't see what is going on in the inside. I promise your cories would be so so so much happier with the proper amount. I have never heard of a schooling fish preferring small numbers over large.


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## YoshesMom (Mar 15, 2011)

Ive always kept single corys because I just assumed like plecos there ok alone ( I didnt do my research ) BAD ME! my corys have always " seemed happy " but I guess I dont pay much attention to them since there always zooming around the tank and are normally fat and happy I guess what ide say to everyone thats new to fish or even new to there breed GOOGLE IT !


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## BettasForever (Jan 18, 2011)

Thank you for posting this thread-I didn't think anyone would have the guts to do so, but I agree with everything you said. There's a civilized way to do things, and the way most people are doing it is not the right one. If something is doing something wrong, chill out and tell them, not scream it in their face. It's true that almost everyone is in a tough place right now, and people don't have access to everything they want/need for their fish. Some people HAVE to have their fish in a one gallon, temporarily, until they can get the money. People have lives, other hobbies, not just fish. (nail art/nail polish collector here. ) So, that's my mini-rant. :3


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

BettasForever said:


> Thank you for posting this thread-I didn't think anyone would have the guts to do so, but I agree with everything you said. There's a civilized way to do things, and the way most people are doing it is not the right one. If something is doing something wrong, chill out and tell them, not scream it in their face. It's true that almost everyone is in a tough place right now, and people don't have access to everything they want/need for their fish. Some people HAVE to have their fish in a one gallon, temporarily, until they can get the money. People have lives, other hobbies, not just fish. (nail art/nail polish collector here. ) So, that's my mini-rant. :3


It is true sometimes people are in bad situations, but I think members here get frustrated because people should have done their research in the first place. For example maybe your mom or something won't let you get more cories or a bigger tank, but you should have researched before you even got the cories.


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## BlackberryBetta (Feb 6, 2011)

LittleNibbles93, I totally agree with you. I don't agree at all with some of the things people say. I mean really, I know how to care for MY fish and even if she doesn't have the things that other people's fish have, she is still happy and healthy. Nobody here is going to change the way I care for my fish. I have been wanting to post something like this for some time. Good for you for going for it. You are like my idol.


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

I think members here get a little harsh when the person doesnt listen, or is all like "my fish is fine in a 1 gallon with water changes once a month, swimming around all happy" when really, there is no way their fish is happy in those conditions. Just that kind of thing. Also, when people on the forum sound harsh, they are really just concerned. It's all in how you read the replies, I suppose. People may sound harsh, but if you were talking to them face-to-face you wouldnt think so. I have never seen a rude member on this forum, except the obvious people that shall not be named.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

I have occasionally seen people being unnecessarily harsh on this site, and actually experienced it once when I was asking questions about my Walstad tank. However, the people who are the nastiest aren't the regulars most of the time in m experience - the person who was mouthy at me didn't even have an avatar, they just busted onto the scene saying that my setup was totally wrong and I needed to "cry for a while and then rip it up". 

However, this is how it is everywhere on the internet. Especially on big sites like this one with lots of members. Not everyone is thinking about your feelings, and the more people join a site the fewer of them actually care if they hurt you. Of course, there are also benefits - more information.

In short, if someone's going to quit from here because they can't tolerate the occasional butthead, then it's probably best that they do, because we can't control everyone who comes here. Also, everyone who is reading this and DOES have the capacity to change their behavior should be careful how they give advice. Being nasty to a newbie kills fish.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

BlackberryBetta said:


> LittleNibbles93, I totally agree with you. I don't agree at all with some of the things people say. I mean really, I know how to care for MY fish and even if she doesn't have the things that other people's fish have, she is still happy and healthy. Nobody here is going to change the way I care for my fish. I have been wanting to post something like this for some time. Good for you for going for it. You are like my idol.


I don't mean to be rude, but if you won't take advice and wouldn't change no matter what someone said, why are you here, and how can you be sure what's really best for her? :/ I mean, I understand if someone's being nasty to you about it, but totally disregarding any advice and just deciding everything's perfect isn't the way to own healthy fish.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

turtle10 said:


> It is true sometimes people are in bad situations, but I think members here get frustrated because people should have done their research in the first place. For example maybe your mom or something won't let you get more cories or a bigger tank, but you should have researched before you even got the cories.


Yes, but howling at a user for not doing his/her research does nothing to help the present situation. They already HAVE the cories. There's not much to be done about it that being nasty will fix.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I have to constantly remind myself that the majority of the members here are young.

Look. This is a big mean nasty world. If your gonna get upset over some random person on the internet maybe you shouldn't be logging on. 

This is THE nicest fish forum your going to find, believe me. Lately I've seen a lot of newbies getting upset and calling foul when they're just being given information. Just because we don't hold your hand and sugar coat everything doesn't make us bad or mean. 

And just because you've had this or this happen when keeping fish doesn't mean it's right. I had a VT that lived 3 years in an unheated 1 gallon bowl with weekly water changes... just because he lived that long does it make it right that I did so? Anecdotal evidence means nothing if there is cold hard facts disputing it (a prime example being the neon tetras).


Now if the above post seems harsh or mean I'm sorry. I'm not one to sugar coat, I am direct, I call things like I see them. A lot of members here are similar... maybe if y'all stuck around longer than a month you'd learn that. It doesn't mean we are not nice people and it doesn't mean we hate you and want you to leave.... quite to the contrary. I'm actually a very nice person but I'm not fake and I will not beat around the bush and say "oh your tank is lovely but um.. if it's not too much of an inconvenience.. um.. maybe you might possibly consider um.. ". To really know a forum you have to stick around longer than just a few weeks.

In closing I just want to say... people are not obligated to be nice to you. That's just the sad truth. Same thing applies to the internet. I would hope that everyone on this forum showed respect for each other.. but that doesn't mean we all have to agree.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> Look. This is a big mean nasty world. If your gonna get upset over some random person on the internet maybe you shouldn't be logging on.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now if the above post seems harsh or mean I'm sorry. I'm not one to sugar coat, I am direct, I call things like I see them. A lot of members here are similar... maybe if y'all stuck around longer than a month you'd learn that. It doesn't mean we are not nice people and it doesn't mean we hate you and want you to leave.... quite to the contrary. I'm actually a very nice person but I'm not fake and I will not beat around the bush and say "oh your tank is lovely but um.. if it's not too much of an inconvenience.. um.. maybe you might possibly consider um.. ". To really know a forum you have to stick around longer than just a few weeks.


I'm not upset completely. Really I wanted one question answered but got both a wrong answer and advice I didn't ask for. Not that I don't appreciate the extra advice, but by the way I read the responses, it sounded quite smart-aleck(sp?) and just... up-front harsh. "I'm sorry I don't have this, but if I switched some things around it'd be better for all the fish." And yet I still get smart responses.
Like another user said, maybe it's just the way I read them. But like another said, the more members there are, the fewer people there are who will actually think about the person's feelings and try to start the conversation lightly.

And I didn't quit the site. I've been on here longer than a month. I don't think anyone's deliberately trying to make me or any of the others leave.
This just wasn't the stress-reliever I needed when I get back after a week of being unplugged. The way a person feels reflects on how well they take care of their fish. Lately work is having me do way more hours despite others who want more hours, and the need to train myself before I get into the military isn't getting met. Fish are my stress reliever. And they're all I have. (And Samm.) I want nothing for the best for them, and I'll do the best I can for them with what I have and can afford to get with each paycheck.

And I'll never ask a person to be fake. But is it really that hard to try to type the way you really want to say it? ALL CAPS-ING some words often comes across as yelling.
Yelling doesn't come across as paying a little respect.


... And geez, I should have never gone to that Psychology class. |D


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I didn't actually mean you.. I meant a general "you" (should have specified).

I agree that all caps is generally interwebz speak for yelling that's why generally I try not to do it, although sometimes I do it and don't realize I've done it. When I do it's USUALLY for EMPHASIS ;-) not to yell. Others I don't know... I do agree that some people use way to many caps.

I always post exactly how something would come out of my mouth (with less cursing since this is polite company XD).

I dunno... I don't sweat the small stuff.. nothing someone can say to me on the internet can stress me out or make me loose sleep. But then again I'm on some forums that make this one seem like rainbows and sunshine.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

FuulieQ said:


> Yes, but howling at a user for not doing his/her research does nothing to help the present situation. They already HAVE the cories. There's not much to be done about it that being nasty will fix.


I don't think I was ever nasty.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> I didn't actually mean you.. I meant a general "you" (should have specified).
> 
> I agree that all caps is generally interwebz speak for yelling that's why generally I try not to do it, although sometimes I do it and don't realize I've done it. When I do it's USUALLY for EMPHASIS ;-) not to yell. Others I don't know... I do agree that some people use way to many caps.
> 
> ...


Rainbows and sunshine... Yeah, compared to a ton of forums I've just browsed, that's really true.

I knew you weren't saying a direct "you", but I had the urge to say something. 
And HA! at the non-cursing... agreed on that. xD


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

turtle10 said:


> I don't think I was ever nasty.


I didn't say you were, just some people are.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh. Yes I have seen some pretty uncalled for comments since I have joined in December.


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## BettaHeart (Jan 2, 2011)

1fish2fish said:


> i have to constantly remind myself that the majority of the members here are young.
> 
> Look. This is a big mean nasty world. If your gonna get upset over some random person on the internet maybe you shouldn't be logging on.
> 
> ...



+1


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## freakumDRESS (Mar 16, 2011)

Tell 'em how you feel, girl. Some people here really have been sipping too much haterade. MmmmmmmmHMMmm.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

freakumDRESS said:


> Tell 'em how you feel, girl. Some people here really have been sipping too much haterade. MmmmmmmmHMMmm.


I fell out of my chair laughing at this comment. Thank you. xD


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I don't sip my haterade... I take it in jello shots... on occasion I've been known to have a hatertini but only after really long days.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

I only drink my haterade when one too many people tick me off... for a week or so. (Hard to annoy, lol)

And I'm not old enough to drink a hatertini. xD


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

LOL, 1f2f. I think everything I drink turns into haterade around that time of the month. I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I have to constantly remind myself that the majority of the members here are young.
> 
> Look. This is a big mean nasty world. If your gonna get upset over some random person on the internet maybe you shouldn't be logging on.
> 
> ...


*Applause*


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Sweeda88 said:


> LOL, 1f2f. I think everything I drink turns into haterade around that time of the month. I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone.


I think I can relate to this. xD; As much as I may deny it during those times, LOL


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I edit *quite* a bit of what I want to say. Keep in mind, a lot of us are older too. We've let go of our need to tread lightly. We don't have much time left on the planet, so we need to use fewer words and get straight to the point. 

Sometimes the internet doesn't do justice to the tone we're trying for. If we're short, it doesn't mean we're mad. Maybe we're on our way out the door. If we all caps a word, like 1fish said, sometimes it's emphasis and not hollering. If we give you advice, I would hope you would always follow up with your own research. 

There are a lot of kids here. They don't make the decisions in their household. We can tell them things but their at the mercy of their Moms and Dads, who may believe that things should be done differently. Attacking them and making them feel bad is not going to solve anything. Shaming people into better animal care never works in the long run. Only education can.

I'm 39, married, with a house of my own and I forget that I used to answer to someone other then me. Everyone should ask about situation here before they get into specifics of care that involve a lot of money or a major change in the environment.


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

I haven't looked through the topic yet, but I just wanted to say...

While it is true that I have seen an increase in blunt and somewhat rude posting in the past few months, I think there are a lot of members here that are a bit too sensitive as well...all in all, this is still a very friendly and helpful site.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Jupiter said:


> I haven't looked through the topic yet, but I just wanted to say...
> 
> While it is true that I have seen an increase in blunt and somewhat rude posting in the past few months, I think there are a lot of members here that are a bit too sensitive as well...all in all, this is still a very friendly and helpful site.


My guess is that they're sensitive because they are young and/or are hoping and praying they're doing the right things for their fish, and if they are told they aren't, they freak out, panic, don't know what to do, etc.


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## Dragonlady (Nov 29, 2010)

Anyone can SHOUT advice from mountaintops, but the whisper is louder and seems to be have more longevity in memory ....whatever that is. :roll:


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## RiverStoneBetta (Feb 22, 2011)

Jupiter said:


> I haven't looked through the topic yet, but I just wanted to say...
> 
> While it is true that I have seen an increase in blunt and somewhat rude posting in the past few months, I think there are a lot of members here that are a bit too sensitive as well...all in all, this is still a very friendly and helpful site.


Well, still being relatively new (time wise) here, I haven't seen near as much rude postings as on other sites, and this forum is far more friendly to other users, which is why this is the only betta forum I frequent. 

That said, I attribute a lot of what less-then-smiley posts I see on either:

1. There are umpteen-bajillion other threads about the same emergency or question, all relatively new and the question has been answered the same way almost every time. A little bit of reading beforehand could have saved us the trouble, and they could have asked any other questions on those previous threads. (Yay for research!)

2. Questions that members ask are going unanswered that drastically affect the answer involved. We ask for water readings, tell you how to get them, and the person will not cooperate. After your 3rd or 4th thread like this, it gets frustrating because there is a betta in trouble, and our help isn't making it to him.

But when I posted on here about Möbius having fin rot, I wasn't jumped on here. I didn't hear: "You obviously don't know how to take care of your fish, or he wouldn't have an illness." Even his previous owner didn't say "OMG you're a fish killer, I want him back." I got six bajillion questions about my water changes, but that's just collecting information to make sure I'm treating correctly. On other sites, I heard all the crap comments I posted above. 

So all in all, I think this is the best betta forum out there. At least to the best of my knowledge.

Not so on other sites.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm glad we're kind of clearing the air about this. I would hate for anyone to leave because they got their feelings hurt. I agree that this is one of the friendliest forums out there. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a mod.  Those of you who may be thinking of leaving, I hope you'll reconsider. I value all our members.


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## tokala (Feb 20, 2011)

I am new to this site and it has been pretty helpful and friendly so far! I am an experience pet owner, and have 4 years of vet school under my belt until I changed my mind haha. But fish were a very foreign world/language to me and I am soooo grateful for all the help I have received so far (and in a friendly manner may I add!) From this forum. So thank you all!

I have also noticed there are a lot of young members here. From my experience, parents like to get fish for their children as starter pets. Whether you think that is right or not, it's the reality. I applaude the young ones for finding this site and doing more research, because the way their parents or the pet stores tell them to do things is not always right. Is it fair to the fish? Nope, not at all. However, it is what it is. This site, for some, IS their method of research. Even if you think they should have done more before they bought their pet (and in a perfect world, yes they should have), at least they are doing it now and can better the lives of their pets. I hope all of you who know more then a newbie are still kind in educating them as you have been to me. We all make mistakes even when our hearts are in the right place. It isn't an excuse for mediocrity but rather just reality. We owe it to each other to encourage, educate and help one another to fix any wrong doings. If ANYONE has searched out this site, they obviously care about their betta a little more than the next guy


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Heh...Go out to Tropical fish keeping and sites like that. They'll give you blunt, hard, and often not the nicest answers to your questions. Dont get me wrong, I like that and others sites, but they have no obligation to be nice to you.
Youre doing it wrong? Hes how to fix it. Cant/wont? Then go away, why did you even bother to ask?

Lots of B'awwwing latley and "OMG soandso, I agree with you theyre mean to me too! My .5gallon tank that I change every other month is GREAT but they just dont understand! Everyone's so mean B'awwwwwwwahh"

I think other people trying to relate to others, even when they have completely different problems, is whats causing all these "hurt feelings" (It pains me to say this. B'awww its the internet.) New members who just plain refuse to listen or take the advice they ask for are backing other members with other issues and its becoming a big fest of whining. Why come here if you're not going to listen to the answers people give you? Dont waste our time.

If youre asking for advice, then take it. If youre not and something is wrong, then listen. At least do your best to fix the issue. *This is the internet, and even if youre not looking for help, if its not right, someone is going to correct you.* Dont cry about it.

Im not directing this at anyone in particular, btw, before anyone starts getting angry about it.

Ive had a bunch of people lately telling me how "awful of a person I must be" when I answered their questions with accurate, helpful advice. Believe me, Im not being mean, you're just being sensitive. They'd warn or ban me if I was. 

Just because it isnt what you want to hear, that doesnt mean it isnt *right*.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

This is pretty much the friendliest forum I've ever been on. The newbies are more willing to take advise, and the more established members are the most patient I've seen in a long, long time. Aside from a few choice trolls, there isn't even much of a reason for anyone to raise their hackles. They're even pretty easy to ignore.

I'm not really seeing too much unnecessary rudeness, bro.


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## BettaHeart (Jan 2, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Heh...Go out to Tropical fish keeping and sites like that. They'll give you blunt, hard, and often not the nicest answers to your questions. Dont get me wrong, I like that and others sites, but they have no obligation to be nice to you.
> Youre doing it wrong? Hes how to fix it. Cant/wont? Then go away, why did you even bother to ask?
> 
> Lots of B'awwwing latley and "OMG soandso, I agree with you theyre mean to me too! My .5gallon tank that I change every other month is GREAT but they just dont understand! Everyone's so mean B'awwwwwwwahh"
> ...


:welldone::cheers:
I love this site and most of the members here for the advice and the very friendly atmosphere they create, Im proud to be a member :-D


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## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I have to constantly remind myself that the majority of the members here are young.
> 
> Look. This is a big mean nasty world. If your gonna get upset over some random person on the internet maybe you shouldn't be logging on.
> 
> ...


+1 to this

You can't expect everything (or everyone) to be gumdrops and rainbows. Rude people and idiots do exist, and the best thing you can do about it is to not be naive to their existence.

I almost always come across harsh because I'm more logical and factual when it comes to stuff like this. As 1f2f said, I don't beat around the bush when people ask for my opinion. I obviously don't mean to be rude... 

(I can be rude if I want to, but that's not logic is it?)

I agree withe everybody who said this is the nicest forum. I'm a semi-frequent forum goer and this is hands down the nicest place. 

I know it's not really a forum but have you seen the stuff that goes down on Youtube? People who have differing opinions on music/movies are flamed until the cows come home, people cursing at others who have opinions...it's sad, really.

Anyway, the tl;dr version of this is: 
We truly love having everybody on this website here, we're all sorry that we come off harsh sometimes, but that's because we're passionate about giving these fish (and all fish) warm, loving homes to spend their lives in love and luxury.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

bahamut285 said:


> +1 to this
> 
> You can't expect everything (or everyone) to be gumdrops and rainbows. Rude people and idiots do exist, and the best thing you can do about it is to not be naive to their existence.
> 
> ...


 Words.
These words!
I like them.


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## FireKidomaru (Jan 24, 2010)

great rant! im glad you brought it up.. i have noticed it to..as long as your fish is happy and you are willing to love and support their exsistence then you can take care of your fish anyway you want..this forum is to build friendships with people who share a common love for fish, not to force the world of fishkeeping under "rules" of how to love them..go out and have fun with your fishies!


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## RiverStoneBetta (Feb 22, 2011)

When I look for advice, I use Ockham's Razor as a tool: The simplest answer than includes all the facts is the most correct one. 

Which to me, means I'm looking for quick straight answers like, "Here's what you do. Let us know if it didn't work or if you screwed up. We'll still be here to help." I don't care for "You have a nice setup, and I love your fish, and I'm sure you didn't mean to, BUT..." and they end up trying to cover up my mistake with apologies which ends up cutting out facts that I desperately need. 

So in the end, if you've been here for more than a month or so, you know the regulars around here. You know who to talk to. I'd much rather get my advice from 1fish2fish, dramaqueen, OFL, and Lupin than someone who's just here to look and talk about pretty fishies. 

And let's be perfectly clear. There are several ways to take care of fish. Just about everyone here on the forum wants to see fish flourish and live full healthy lives. There are different points of view. One owner may say that a 2.5 gallon is a little too small for a betta, but most say it's fine. That's a difference in opinion, but one that does not ultimately harm the fish or degrade his life. However, when several sources say you may want to change your setup or habits, then it's best to take heed. Otherwise, do not act shocked when problem arise from your betta being lethargic because you think a heater is unnecessary. 

I've digressed. My point? Don't expect to be pampered on the Internet. Expect an answer and take everything with a pinch of salt. Do research. And if 16 regular members say the same thing, it more than likely means it's going to work. When given good advice, please use it! Don't just shove it aside because you don't agree with it unless you have evidence to back up your point. 

This forum is for betta enthusiasts to gather. But it is also a place to educate others in proper betta care so they can have a happy, healthy betta that will get them hooked on the hobby like the rest of us. 

And haterade. That word made my day. XD


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## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

I've read everyone's comments. And, even though I wrote the rant, I like all of the comments and peoples opinions given in this thread.

I was really mad when I wrote the thing, I've cooled off now about the whole thing (wish I could psychically, its like a sauna in this house).


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## RiverStoneBetta (Feb 22, 2011)

LittleNibbles93 said:


> I've read everyone's comments. And, even though I wrote the rant, I like all of the comments and peoples opinions given in this thread.
> 
> I was really mad when I wrote the thing, I've cooled off now about the whole thing (wish I could psychically, its like a sauna in this house).


I understand that. With four heated fish tanks in the southernmost portion of the house, and especially when I'm repairing computers (with soldering irons and such) my room is a large, humid kiln. I hate it. lol

But don't feel bad about emotions taking over from time to time. It happens to everyone, especially when it comes to an area that you're passionate about. If I'm not working with fish, I'm working with computers, so I understand.


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## bettamaniac (Jan 6, 2011)

No one has been mean to me on this forum. But have you ever seen some of the comments of youtube. If you look at videos with bettas in something like a .5-1 gallon aquarium and read some of the comments, you know what Im talking about. Some people call the owners of the fish idiots sometimes saying things like "hey moron your fish needs 2.5 gallons not .5. Get a bigger tank stupid." They are the meanest people I have seen tell about when your doing something wrong with fish. Im just glad none of those people are on this forum. Even if they are they dont act like it on this forum.


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## LittleNibbles93 (Feb 7, 2011)

bettamaniac said:


> No one has been mean to me on this forum. But have you ever seen some of the comments of youtube. If you look at videos with bettas in something like a .5-1 gallon aquarium and read some of the comments, you know what Im talking about. Some people call the owners of the fish idiots sometimes saying things like "hey moron your fish needs 2.5 gallons not .5. Get a bigger tank stupid." They are the meanest people I have seen tell about when your doing something wrong with fish. Im just glad none of those people are on this forum. Even if they are they dont act like it on this forum.


Yeah, the people on youtube are reeaaallly mean when it comes to just about anything.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Now, THAT is something that shouldn't be allowed. "Get a bigger tank, stupid" isn't the way to talkj to people! You can't cram advice down someone's throat. They'll either take your advice or they won't.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Youtube is just a sea of inhumanity.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

vaygirl said:


> Youtube is just a sea of inhumanity.


Agreed.


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