# Breeding Halfmoons! First Spawn!!!



## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Hello, and thank you for reading this post.

I am breeding my halfmoons is a few weeks, and am super excited! (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I wanted to run down the process I have gathered so far with you guys so that I can check that I am doing it right. I know that there are breeding Stickies here, I have read them all hundreds of times, just want to check to see I am doing it all good before I make a huge mistake and have someone get eaten or something horrible like that...

1. Condition the bettas (I am very confused on this part. Everyone one is all 'condition your bettas' and what-not, so I am really confused. They are both in warm water, being fed every day. I was thinking about getting a batch of baby brine shrimp going and feeding them that? Or would they be too small? HTey had IAL in their tanks, and are divided by a screen net. So they are constantly looking at eacheother. The male is very interstied and ready to breed,flaring at her lots and hanging by her side of the tank. He also just blew a HUGE bubble nest. But the girl does not have her verticle stripes and does not seem very interstied. Is this because she can't see him very well? Or Does she need to be conditioned? Please clarify.

2. I was going to use a tub for the 1st part of the spawning, putting the male in the tub and and female in a clear vase. When they are clearly interstied in eachother, release them. Let the magic happen, take the female out, return her to her tank to rest. Let the male take care of the eggs while I get my handy-dandy baby brine shrimp going. 

3. Take the male out when the eggs hatch (or when they become free-swimming?)

4. When the fry become free-swimming, move them into my 20gal heated raising tank. I cannot get a filter, but am going to get one of those under-want suction/vacuumn thingie-mc-bobbers and clean the tank AT LEAST 2x per day to remove all dead BBS and  dead baby bettas  

5. When they babies start attacking each-other, move them out and hopefully into new homes soon! )

6. Sell the babies online, here, and at my local tropical fish store, as well to all my family and friends, craig's list, school/teachers, and the good ones on Aquabids. This is assuming I have lots of fry. I want to be prepared to rehome them all, but if there are only a few friends and family and school (because I know the people) will come first. 

I have tried REALLLLLLLYYY hard not to look over anything, please correct me or make any changes as you see fit. Also, one more question, around what age should the fry start being introducted to pellets? Thanks! 


Have a great, awesome, wonderful, smile filled day!

Talk to you soon,
Thomasdog
PS the pics below are of the parents

Mommy (Sunshine on the Halfmoon Bay) ((Sunny))








Daddy (King of the Halfmoon Bay) ((Moonie))

































Peace, Love, and Bettas! <3


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

1. Condition the bettas (I am very confused on this part. Everyone one is all 'condition your bettas' and what-not, so I am really confused. They are both in warm water, being fed every day. I was thinking about getting a batch of baby brine shrimp going and feeding them that? Or would they be too small? HTey had IAL in their tanks, and are divided by a screen net. So they are constantly looking at eacheother. The male is very interstied and ready to breed,flaring at her lots and hanging by her side of the tank. He also just blew a HUGE bubble nest. But the girl does not have her verticle stripes and does not seem very interstied. Is this because she can't see him very well? Or Does she need to be conditioned? Please clarify.

Since your girl has a light body .. you won't see her vertical stripes .. you will have to go based on her behavior to see if she's ready to spawn .. she will swim with her head down (like a submissive behavior) .. only then should you release her from her clear vase

i would recommend conditioning bettas with 3 times a day feedings (this makes them feel the season has changed and there is more available food source which is better conditions for spawning) .. also i recommend feeding them live or frozen bloodworms.

2. I was going to use a tub for the 1st part of the spawning, putting the male in the tub and and female in a clear vase. When they are clearly interstied in eachother, release them. Let the magic happen, take the female out, return her to her tank to rest. Let the male take care of the eggs while I get my handy-dandy baby brine shrimp going.

hatching bbs .. can take anywhere from 18-36 hours and it's very difficult to time it out to be perfect to when your babies hatch .. i recommend having a back up feeding source .. just in case your bbs don't hatch in time for your babies first feeding .. also i would recommend just spawning in your 20g .. just fill it with 3-4 inches of water instead of having to move them =)

3. Take the male out when the eggs hatch (or when they become free-swimming?)

personally i don't take the dad out immediately (i keep him in roughly 2-3 weeks after free swimming).. i let him do the culling for me .. so i don't have to later .. and he knows instinctively which babies should be culled .. and i'm left with the strongest of babies =)

4. When the fry become free-swimming, move them into my 20gal heated raising tank. I cannot get a filter, but am going to get one of those under-want suction/vacuumn thingie-mc-bobbers and clean the tank AT LEAST 2x per day to remove all dead BBS and  dead baby bettas  

i would not immediatly move them to a 20g filled .. that would be a huge shock to them .. instead .. i'd fill the 20g maybe with 1-3g first .. then slowly introduce more water each water change

5. When they babies start attacking each-other, move them out and hopefully into new homes soon! )

there is a huge difference between actual attacking each other and play fighting .. they have to learn how to defend themselves somehow .. make sure you don't cup them too soon .. it's nerve-wrecking watching them chase each other .. but unless you see real injury or severe aggression .. it's best to just leave them together .. and only removing the one that is being mean


^_^ last note .. good luck !! .. and i hope for a good spawn and lots of updates!!


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

1. She's a pale fish so you might never see the stripes. 
For conditioning you have to increase feedings by a lot. Feed them protein rich foods for about 2 weeks 3-5 times a day and change their water very often. I would separate the 2 while conditioning as they can get so used to being next to each other that they will not mate. 

2. You don't have to start your bbs right after they spawn. The fry eggs will take 36-48 hours to hatch and your fry will take 2-3 days until they are free swimming. BBS only take 24-36 hours. I don't recomend you start with bbs, get some infusoria going in the spawn tank by adding natural plants and having a bright light on. This is the best food for tiny fry until they are large enough to eat bbs. I lost too many fry once because I made the mistake of only feeding bbs. Also look into microworms, another great food for the first week.

3. Take the male out when the fry becomes free-swimming. He will take care of the eggs and eat the ones that develop fungus. 

4. A filter is strongly recomended. They are pretty economic and will keep your water from becoming stale. Plus the bio load of so many fish will deteriorate your water quality in the blink of an eye. 

5. When the babies start fighting remove them if they are too agressive and place them in heater jars. They might stil be too young to ship.

6. Yes, yes, yes. Now keep in mind that the $$ you get for them will not be a whole lot. From the looks of your pair, your fry will have a few undesirable traits that might discourage people from buying. That's why is very important to pick your pair carefully. 

You can start introducing pellets from 3-5 weeks of age.The size of the pellets will determine if they will be able to eat them without you having to crush them. I'm currently feeding my fry NLS Growth wich is food made for juvies that it's very small but not in powder form. Some will eat the attison's but some are still a little too small and won't bother with the food. 

Best of luck and keep us updated!!


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Sorry for the delayed double post... the site wasn't working for me.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

One of many things I have picked up reading Mr. Vampire's posts and threads. His anal is SUPER long, which is what you wouldn't want when breeding, it will make more fry have it, which to many breeders isn't good for breeding. Also you won't get many HMs, be happy if you even get 20% as most will end up being deltasand super selfsame, which would bring the price down a bit.

HMs are harder to breed as if you aren't careful with the form you may end up with some rose/feather tails. Not saying you specifically will.

Heads up, you may spend more money on the spawn than what comes out of it since you are new. After breeding for a while you should be able to start turning profit once you learn how to do everything efficiently.

I wouldn't mind breeding but I don't have the time for it, I also don't have room. Only thing stopping me.

Good luck with your spawn!


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

i do also agree with kfryman .. i wouldn't choose these 2 as a breeding pair .. but thomas hasn't really stated his breeding goals .. so i'm not one to judge another breeders actions ..


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks for all the great help! I understand the costs, and since I am a minor, I am lucky enough to have the wonderful support of my parents!  I'm not in it for the money, so I really don't care (well, i mean I do) if they come out with a few confiramational defects becuase I am selling them to locals and friends, and I know they wont care about a few fins, as long as they are healthy. Moving Moonie and Sunny to defferent sections tomorrow so they get a break from eachother and will be ready to breed soon. I am really excited and gald that I found this site so that I could get all the wonderful help of you guys!!!! D Thanks ooooooo much


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

+++ I don't think anyone else I am going to sell them to are going to breed them+++ so those bad traits wont be passed down. another thing: if I were to breed again, I would want to breed the female. What would you recommend that I breed her to? Please post pics and such so I can see, as Moonie is my only other male. Thanks!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

This spawn is not something I'd do. The male is very unbalanced (though he is very clean colored). The female on the other hand is nicer and should be bred to a decent halfmoon red male.

You will get lots of blue with red wash and no full halfmoons.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok thanks, what would you describe as a 'decent halfmoon red male'? I kinda don't understand the tails and confirmation yet, what is it that you super awesome betta people look for? Thanks! Sorry to bother you so much... I really LOVE bettas and want to be able to have bred, please dont judge me and tell me that I shoulden't breed at all becuase I don't know anything, we all have to learn somewhere.......

Just trying to protect myself from future attacks, nothing against what you said Mr. vampire, now that I look at it his tail is much shorter than his anal fin, is that what is wrong? 


NOTHING AGAINST ANYONE WHO HAS POSTED!!! thank you so much for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to have a sucessful spawn and see the wonderful outcome!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

His fins are uneven. They should all form a circle.

This is what to look for in breeding fish.

http://bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABHMintro.htm


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Would this be a possible good match for her?
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335887404

or this one:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335993598

or...
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335994802


or even!! 
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335996014

OK, last one:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335997203

I got the female from Chard, she is super cute and has a great personality. I got the male at our local tropical fish store, thought he was pretty, reasearched, decided to breed, reaserached, reasearched, reasearched, asked questions, made planners, got supplies, bought Sunny online for him.... oh well! Things change, I will try to get her a better hubby!  Please point me in the correct direction


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Oops, nevermind, just read your post. I will figure it out in the morning! Good night! DD


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'm debating purchasing this male. He has nice form and fins overall. A little long for my liking but eh can't complain. I probably won't get him but he is a nice one.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335482402


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Everyone else basically nailed it on the head, but I'm going to review one more time for you.

Conditioning bettas is like a UFC fighter getting into shape. He eats high protein food, drinks lots of clean water, exercises frequently, and begins to get into his peak physical condition. Similarly, bettas in preparation of spawning need to go through the same thing- lots of top quality foods like mosquito larvae, daphnia, bloodworms and brine shrimp (has to be adult brine shrimp as adult bettas won't pay attention to tiny baby brine shrimp) CLEAN clean water every day heated to 82 degrees, plenty of room for swimming and moving around in the tank. Don't let the pair see one another, EXCEPT for a few times a day for only a matter of minutes. This peaks their interest. Keep this up for a minimum of two weeks, and you will see your male become more vibrant in color and your female swell with eggs. It will almost look like she is bloated, but not to the extreme. You male will also most likely be started on a bubble nest. 

For your Betta fry, I would acquire a micrworm culture on top of your bbs and infusoria. Microworms are very easy to maintain- all you have to do is make oatmeal every few weeks, and starter cultures are dirt cheap. In fact, I believe MrV is selling MW cultures (forgive me if I'm mistaken, V.) 

Next, I do not recommend an undergravel filter. The bottoms of your tanks should be bare to begin with so that they can easily find fallen foods. Placing the filter in the open water will certainly suck up your fry. Keep them in the spawning tank for at least the first 3 weeks and use a turkey baster to suck up uneaten food and waste from the bottom of the tank. Moving them into a full 20 gallon at such a young age will most certainly kill them. They are extremely fragile and sensitive to their environment at this point. When they get big enough to handle a sponge filter, put them in the 20 gallon that is filled half-way, then add more water each week until you eventually have a full tank. 


Alright, now let's talk genetics. I'm assuming you got these two from your local pet store, correct? (EDIT: Okay, so the male is from a petstore. xD Apologies, you guys were posting while I was typing.) That means that their DNA is extremely jumbled and scrambled, for the sole purpose of giving the customers a variety to pick from, and overall quick sales. You probably don't think this is such a bad thing, because all you want at this point is a successful spawn. Right? Well, you should probably stop and think for a moment. Bettas can produce well over 1000 fry in one spawn. Let's say Lady Luck is watching over you on this one, and you have a 80% survival rate. That leaves you with 800 betta fish that are store-quality, essentially the same exact quality as the fish sitting at the pet store right now. Ask me this- how long do you think it would take the petstore to sell 800 Betta fish from their shelves? Even with the hundreds of customers they get each and every day? Probably a very VERY long time. That means that you are in the same situation, potentially worse because you probably don't have hundreds of friends that can come strolling by your house every day. This means you need to be prepared to provide proper housing, heating, feeding and filtration for 800 fish. Not only this, but a way to separate every single male. As far as selling bettas on Aquabid, no breeder in their right mind would ever buy a pet store bred Betta with no genetic background. Take a look under the "veil tail" section and note how few there are, and how cheap they are selling. On top of the regular price, you'd be asking people to pay shipping as well. Why would they, for a poor quality fish?

Doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun, does it? The BEST way to avoid getting yourself into a situation like this is to begin your breeding hobby with quality fish with STABLE genetics. Fish that you are able to know the "pedigree" of. You also need to look into culling, and understand that it is a big part of Betta breeding and reproducing only the best of the offspring. The combination of these two will allow you to more successfully sell your fish to breeders who desire the traits you are recreating. Through this you are improving the foundation of the betta splendens society- and that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

In the end it is well worth it to invest in higher quality fish, because it gives you more flexibility in line breeding as well as selling your stock. It can take a lifetime to sort out the negative genes of a pet store fish- for example, long anal fins, unclean scales, short ventrals, red and blue wash and poor conformation. 

Like I said before, even though genetics don't seem like a big deal to you right now, starting out right can save you a world of hurt down the road.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> I'm debating purchasing this male. He has nice form and fins overall. A little long for my liking but eh can't complain. I probably won't get him but he is a nice one.
> 
> http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1335482402



You should look at NiceBettas extended red- 
http://www.nicebettas.com/Stock_Sho...ufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

In my opinion, better conformation, cleaner scales, less blue iridescence, and $10 cheaper. Plus the NiceBettas breeder is a real sweetheart, and speaks english pretty fluently. Linda is very fond of her.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Hmm. I'll have to check them out. I'm going to be importing quite a few this summer.

Yes I'm selling fry supplies. I have three different cultures and snails. Duck weed in a limited amount.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So... they are both from Thailand... both very pretty.. I have no idea which one to choose! Probably the Kaden one, since V has his eyes on the 1st one. Ok, cool. Now, for the shipping process. If I buy a fish from Thailand, how do I get it here? Does it have to go through a transshipper? How would I do that? Or would I just work that out with the seller?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Yay I just bought the one from NiceBettas! He's so pretty! V's was awesome too, but I figured that once you figure in the shipping costs, the cheaper one would be better! Thanks for all your wonderful help and I will keep you posted with pictures and such!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)




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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Have her ship the betta to a transhipper in the next shipment (I only recommend Linda or Jen). Pay the transhipper their fees (Linda is a bit more expensive but she's very good at what she does and her packing job is amazing) and they will ship the betta to you. Idk when the next shipment dates are.

BTW, the male is a little long finned for my liking, but he has good balance and his spread will throw a few HMs.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Glad you experts like him! We are going to use Linda, and the ship date is the 6th for Linda. I am soooo exited!!! Even if he gives 5-10 really nice HMs, I am at least making that much money back here and on Aquabid. I am not in it for the money, but you know how it is!  What do you mean by 'spread'? Is that his tail width?


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Spread = the size and conformation of the Betta's fins when he's at full flare. Similar to how people say the "spread" of an eagle is 5 feet, meaning his wings outstretched.

I'm so excited for you!! Be sure to post lots of pictures when you get him.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Linda is a really nice lady  I pick up my fish from her. She helped me when I was getting started. 

He is an OHM which means his spread is over 180 degrees.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Is that a good or bad thing?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

IMO not good for showing but excellent to breed. It'll give that little extra chance of getting full halfmoons in the spawn.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok, so correct me, but here is my new breeding plan! 

We've come a longgg way!

1. Wait for Sparta to arrive (yes I did name the male x) ) 

2. Start conditioning. Put them far away from eachother and let them see eachother only once or twice a day for about 5 minutes. Do this for two weeks, or until the female becomes bloated with eggs. When they are seeing eachother, feed them lots of rich foods so they think it is breeding season and want to breed! (frozen bloodworms)

3. I'm a little confused about this part. I have been told a few different ways, so I'm left wondering which one is right. 
Plan #1 Breed them in my 20gal. Someone told me to just breed them with 3 or 4 inches of water in my 20gal so I would'ent have to move them.
Plan #2 Breed them in a tub, then move them over to the 20gal when they are 1 month old or something. But I'm thinking that would be too stressful.

4. Feeding - here is where I am a little bit confused, a little bit sure. So I am surely going to feed BBS after the first week or so, when they get bigger so they don't die of choking or something dumb like that. So I've heard to get 'infushia' (spelled it wrong) Worms creep me out, so I don't think Microworms are going to work for me! (blegghh, I don't mind spiders and amphibians, but bleggh! Worms and snails! (NO offence anyone who likes snail and worms)) So would I get some live floating moss or something like that for the infushia to grow on for them to eat? Or is that how it even grows. I was just thinking that with a bare tank bottom, it would be hard to grow live plants... maybe moss or floating plants would be better so my tank would be cleaner and the babies would have another sorce of food.

5. When they are arund 1 month old (is this correct?) Start intorducting them to pellets. If they look too big, crush them up.

6. Culling - the deformed and REALLY ugly ones get *sigh* culled. Must happen, its for the better of everyone else. I will put them in a bucket of water with ice for an instant death. 

6. When they start causing SERIOUS damage to eachother, seperate and sell. I am taking some more pictures of Sunny today, so ya'll can see how she looks (the other pics are kinda old) 


Thanks for all the wonderful help! Just wondering if I was doing everything right.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok, I'm thinking Java Moss because it helps a lot with the bio load, well, becuase there is going to be lots of fish together and I don't want anyone dieing from ammonia posioning.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

=D GREAT job, you are definitely doing an awesome job preparing. 

It's basically up to you whether you want to grow them in the tub and then move them, or start in a shallow-filled 20 gallon. I personally like the tub method because it keeps the male's attention on her 100%, I've found that even in a 15 gallon they occasionally lose each other and it takes that much longer to spawn. On the other hand, it would be a certain amount of stress on the babies if you move them from the tub to the 20 gallon. So long as you do it when they are old enough, I'm sure they would be fine.

Whichever you are more partial to, and if it doesn't work, try the other method next time. 

Growing infusoria in your tank is a great idea. Java moss is awesome, so is duckweed. It's fairly cheap stuff, too. It's a shame you don't like worms, because bettas love them at all ages. xD


Don't think I missed anything, looks like your knowledge is pretty well-rounded. Now it's time to put your noggin to the ultimate test!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I spawn in shallow 4 gallon tubs. I fill them half way with green water and almond leaf water. Add some plastic plants, another almond leaf, and some duckweed. I no longer use nest anchors. I place the male in the tank a day before the female. He usually will start a nest. Then I float the female in a cup and then a day or two later I release her.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Wait, so the female swims in the cup for a day or two? Is that what you mean?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

**I think that I am just going to try and spawn in my 20 gal. I really don't wait to have to do that tub deal**


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I prefer smaller tanks to actually get spawns. Never have luck in anything with anything larger than 10 gallons. I recommend a good ol 10 gallon for a spawn tank. Especially with a red with long fins. Reds are mean. However long fins shouldn't have to chase too much.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

> Wait, so the female swims in the cup for a day or two? Is that what you mean?


The female should be floated in a cup for a day or two in the spawning tank regardless of if you're breeding in the tub or your 20 gallon. Unless of course, you're using a divider, which I personally don't like using because the male should have complete run of the tank. The female will be just peachy keen in the floating jar. In fact, quite entertained by the male's seductive dancing. xD


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Yup ^ Gets her in the mood to spawn since she'll be used to him after a few days.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

I have a ten gallon, but it is currently occupied by the rat..... I don't think she would be too keen on moving out and I have nowhere else to put her. So you think I should; Get a 10gal tub (it might have to be a bucket) breed and raise the fry in there? Or would just breeding in the 20 be better? Ugg I'm totally confusing myself


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

A smaller area for breeding is better. A 20 galon will be too large and your male will be exhausted from chasing the female. Plus, they might decide that the tank is large enough for the two of them and not breed for a while. 
Do you have a way to section off the 20galon? Maybe a mesh divider to stop them from using one half of the tank? If you did this then you will just have to remove the partition once the fry are free swiming. 
If not, then I would get a cheap 5-10 galon tub and spawn there, then use the 20galon for grow out.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes, yes, yess!!!! How was I dumb enough not to think of it!!!! I have 2 mesh dividers that I bought for the tank and are in now!!! Phew, vilmarisv, you are amazing! I will cut the tank in half, and wellah, we have a 10g


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Haha... sometimes it takes a village :lol:

Still only fill 3-4inches of water. I've found that it works best when breeding HMs because the male doesn't have to swim too far for the eggs/fry which just takes a lot of energy out of him. 
Best of luck! You have been preparing very well, accepting criticism and suggestions... I think that's wonderful!


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

*pokes at the lightbulb above tdog's head*


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool... 3-4 inches, divided, then I can move the dividers as the fry grow and not have to upset them!  

PS: Kaden- love the nickname!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

OK, ONE more question. When I am floating the female in the clear cup for a day or two, is the water level still going to be only an inch or two? When do I raise the water level for my heater to fit... or do I not use a heater? My tank is in the garage and it gets kinda cold in there... then again... I'll be breeding in a few weeks when its warm.. and I can turn my porta-heater on! Problem solved, but won't the low water level stress the male out? And will they leave eachother alone or flirt all night long when she is in the cup?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

***Have any of you ever used Julie from CA as a transshipper for nicebettas? Is she any good?**


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Julie doesn't have great reviews :/

Also yes try to keep the water level under 6 inches. 

I don't use heaters since my fish room is heated to 84F.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok, I'll see if I can change transshippers. I just shot Julie a really questioniong email...  see what she says and I'll email Nice Bettas about Linda


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I use 3 inches which is enough to cover the heater, stick it to the floor of the tank and just fill until it's covered.
Yes, the water level remains the same. I use a glass vase to place my female in the tank and I like to fill it an inch higher than the water in the tank so the female can get away from the male when she wants. This is not necessary, it's just my choice.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ahh, stick it to the floor! Great Idea... I'll do that! )) Thanks soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mmuch for all the help!! You have no idea how much I apprechieate it!!!


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Yeah all my heaters go on the bottom when I do use them lol.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

If you are going to move the brood to the 20 gal anyway, just breed them there. The only advantage of using the tub is cost savings over buying a tank....

Micro worms are so small that they don't even look like worms. You don't have to touch them, just use a q-tip.... Even then micro worms aren't required as long as you know you will lose some of the smaller of your brood.

Best of luck,
Jeff.



Thomasdog said:


> 3. I'm a little confused about this part. I have been told a few different ways, so I'm left wondering which one is right.
> Plan #1 Breed them in my 20gal. Someone told me to just breed them with 3 or 4 inches of water in my 20gal so I would'ent have to move them.
> Plan #2 Breed them in a tub, then move them over to the 20gal when they are 1 month old or something. But I'm thinking that would be too stressful.
> 
> ...


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Here is my tub, about 5 inches of water, plenty of room for my submersable heater laying sideways... Female in the container not floating but sunk to the bottom.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So... this is what I'll do but divided in my 20g... I'l make it a 10g  One big IAL for a bubble nest floater? Or will I need styrofoam? And I believe that plant is Java Moss, correct? I am getting some for food and tank cleaning benefits.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Either styrofoam or IAL will work, but most breeders prefer IAL because they add beneficial nutrients to the water that help get the two in the mood, makes everything more natural feeling, tints the water a bit, helps heal wounds from spawning, and helps fry grow stronger against diseases. The downside is that the leaf will get waterlogged and sink and collapse after a couple days. 

Also, with your heater, be sure it is a fully submersible heater and not a regular one with a water line. Otherwise you risk having a malfunction and end up with a broken heater and hot Betta-Soup. :/

Java moss is great, and dirt cheap. You can find it on ebay, Aquabid, and other breeders sometimes sell it.


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## kfryman (Nov 7, 2011)

When you feed the fry in the 20 wouldn't some go through the divider? And possibly fry going through the divider? I know fry are tiny so I don't wanted any to get stuck.

I believe Mr. V puts in a leaf and the piece of a Styrofoam cup. The problem with the leaf would be if it does collapse.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I've used bubble wrap, lids, styro, etc. in my tanks but my males ignore it and make their own nest somewhere in the tank. I really don't mind.


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

lol my bettas does the same thing .. @[email protected] he ignored all the created spots i made for him (cup .. ial leaf) and decided to make his nest between some floating cabomba .. which then i put a cup over his nest since he choose a spot where water would from the lid and on the nest every time i opened the lid to feed him .. lol !!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I know this is a little late, and everyone has it covered. But I'd like to add; (for future reference)
Next time you shop for bettas - regardless AB or pet store bettas, memorize this IBC form standard
Bettyplenden - about bettas - last page/last article (can't make link)
Buy a betta that closely fits the criteria.

The AB male you bought has excessive overlapping rays (caudal). And his anal is a bit long for my taste. BUT HE HAS GORGEOUS OVERALL FINS. Next time look for a betta with smooth and even spread (safer genetically - overlapping/folding may carry rose genes). Don't worry, you're lucky your female is 4 rayed thus should help reduce ray branching on fry.

Look for fry with overall fins like daddy (preferably 4 rays) plus smaller anal and breed back to daddy to keep his dorsal form (dorsal form is often hard to maintain). Or breed siblings with overall fins like daddy.
 


Thomasdog said:


> 2. Start conditioning. Put them far away from eachother and let them see eachother only once or twice a day for about 5 minutes.
> 
> I'd rather not move their tanks every time you want to flare them. I'd place their tanks side by side, divided with something dark. Then lift the divider to let them see each other.
> 
> ...


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I've never had a problem with an IAL that was used for bubble nest building sinking. The bubbles will keep the leaf afloat. 
To make sure the leaf floats in the first place, pick one that has no holes and it's a little curved. Then place in the water curved side up so you trap an airbubble in the center of the leaf.

What I've found that is better with styro than IAL is that, although my fish usually will go for the IAL when building nests, the styro will only allow a thin layer of bubbles and the IAL allows for the male to build a very thick nest if he's known for that. 
Thick nest bulders will place so many bubbles in the same spot that they might lift some eggs from the water surface, those eggs will go bad and never hatch.

Now, there are issues also with the styro as well. You have to watch the sides of it when you have fry because they will wiggle themselves up the sides between the air bubbles and get stuck there. 

No setup is flawless and you will only learn what works best for you with experience. The best thing is not to be discouraged by failure.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

you have to let me know how this turns out!! my first betta fish, hope, is starting to make bubble nest so i was going to put my 3rd betta fish claira in there to mate with him


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

surprize30 said:


> you have to let me know how this turns out!! my first betta fish, hope, is starting to make bubble nest so i was going to put my 3rd betta fish claira in there to mate with him


You need to research for at least a year before spawning bettas. If this is your first betta, you have no idea how they communicate and one or both fish may end up severely injured or dead.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> You need to research for at least a year before spawning bettas. If this is your first betta, you have no idea how they communicate and one or both fish may end up severely injured or dead.


Where is all this research that takes an entire year to study?? Perhaps by then you will have a Doctorate in Bettology?

Really now! But seriously, if you want to breed bettas, best to first learn to keep the fish and keep them healthy. If you can do that, then think about becoming a breeder.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

jeffegg2 said:


> Where is all this research that takes an entire year to study?? Perhaps by then you will have a Doctorate in Bettology?
> 
> Really now! But seriously, if you want to breed bettas, best to first learn to keep the fish and keep them healthy. If you can do that, then think about becoming a breeder.


It's recommended because if you were to read a few articles and then jump into it, you'll most likely fail. It also takes a long time to learn betta body language (ie "I'm going to kill you" vs "Hey pretty lady want to spawn?").


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

There's also so much that goes into it, an immense amount of details. It's not as simple as throwing them in together, ignoring them and two months later you have 50 more bettas. Breeding is very demanding, both for the fish and for us as their breeders/caretakers/referees/parents/lunchladies/doctors. When MrV says a year of research, its not an exaggeration. You need to memorize so much information and be able to pull it out of your mind and into your hands, it really takes a long time to achieve. Not only the actual breeding, but also genetics, fishy illnesses and how to diagnose, culturing food and proper water changes. It isn't for the faint of heart or for those who aren't truly passionate about it. Although it sounds cool and you want to become a pro at it, majority of people won't try to spawn again after their first experience because it is so difficult.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I still say the important part of fish breeding is just keeping healthy fish. As far as the courtship and spawning, either they will breed, or they won't. Nature will have it's way and life will prevail. I see a lot of beginner breeders here having trouble with their pairings. Perhaps they get too caught up in the "they will kill each other" hype. The Male Betta is a very territorial animal, and very agressive and assertive. Yes he will chase her around and bite her fins and she will look pretty haggard many times before spawning, but that is just the way of the Betta. If you keep healthy fish well fed in clean water, she will heal and live to do it all over again.

I do not have to learn to be the "Betta Whisperer" to breed bettas..... I just have to do the maintenance, the fish do the rest.

Jeff.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

But why expose your fish to damage by not learning their behavior when you can have very peaceful spawnings where fish don't suffer from any damage? We call it betta care.
I've only had one spawn where the pair attacked eachother during the courtship... it was my first. What did I do to fix this? I took a step back and did my research, learned betta behavior during courtship and adjusted my method. Never had a problem since.
I've been around this forum for a while and I know that stubborn people who don't take advise will often fail on their spawns. Or their fry will not survive the first few weeks. 
There's so much to learn. You shouldn't discourage people from doing their research and being prepared. There's so much more to it than just putting 2 fish together in a tank. Bettas will often spawn, yes. But fry care is a whole different story and there's a lot of preparation to be done, not to mention the high cost of buying supplies and cultures for your growing fish.


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

+1


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey guys, just an update:

Today I moved Moonie away from Sunny and took down his divider so now she has 10+ gallons to swim in!  I went to the only place I know of that would have Java Moss... And they didnt have it. My dad found a little green moss ball and wanted that, so I figured that at least that would help filter the water. We named him Phil!  (Phil the filtering moss ball) Will the infucia grow on this? And then when you said that I need to put a bunch of live plants in a barrel and then take some water out... how will I know it will have infucia in it? And if I put a bunch of water in, how am I going to take some out without taking out a bunch of babies.. I would get a bunch of plants and just put them in the tank for food, but I am not using dirt and so that is why I wanted to get Java Moss and let it float around... I will check a few more fish stores and see what I find....
Just wondering, why can't I use frozen BBS instead of live ones? Less nutrition? Our pet store sells them in cubes and was thinking it would be less work. Or would that be a bad idea? I don't mind the extra work, just wondering why if they did sell them in babies. And if you were worried about them not learning to chase, that same TFS (tropical fish store) also sells adult/mid sized brine shrimpies and worms, so I was thinking that when they got older, that could be a good food option. Then they would get the frozen BBS as little babies (how long?), worms and BS (how long?), then transfer to pellets.

Also: I am going to put something on the backside of the screen so the babies can't get stuck. Thinking Seran wrap or parchement paper on both sides. 

Great idea about separiting the bettas, I'll do that. Thanks for the advice on fins, I'll see to that next time. 

And I went to the TFS and got a tank vacuum and more water conditioner, and saw a really pretty mustard gas veiltail (I think...) I had to totally walk away!



surprize30 - please do your reasearch before you breed. Take time to plan things out and ask questions. I have been thinkin about this for about 8 months, and reasearching, and reading, and asking endless questions (thanks everyone for answering) you need to take the time to think about what you are doing. Is this really the right option for you? Consider all the hard work you have to put into this. Not saying you shoulden't do it, just saying that you need to look before you leap.

Thanks for all the help... commuicating with the shippers and transshippers on Sparta right now... I'll post some pics and more info later!


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Hey guys, just an update:
> 
> Today I moved Moonie away from Sunny and took down his divider so now she has 10+ gallons to swim in!  I went to the only place I know of that would have Java Moss... And they didnt have it. My dad found a little green moss ball and wanted that, so I figured that at least that would help filter the water. We named him Phil!  (Phil the filtering moss ball) Will the infucia grow on this? And then when you said that I need to put a bunch of live plants in a barrel and then take some water out... how will I know it will have infucia in it? And if I put a bunch of water in, how am I going to take some out without taking out a bunch of babies.. I would get a bunch of plants and just put them in the tank for food, but I am not using dirt and so that is why I wanted to get Java Moss and let it float around... I will check a few more fish stores and see what I find....
> Just wondering, why can't I use frozen BBS instead of live ones? Less nutrition? Our pet store sells them in cubes and was thinking it would be less work. Or would that be a bad idea? I don't mind the extra work, just wondering why if they did sell them in babies. And if you were worried about them not learning to chase, that same TFS (tropical fish store) also sells adult/mid sized brine shrimpies and worms, so I was thinking that when they got older, that could be a good food option. Then they would get the frozen BBS as little babies (how long?), worms and BS (how long?), then transfer to pellets.
> ...


this is my second time doing it but the first time didnt turn out so greate so i dotn plan on doing it for a few months anywy i have to get a bigger tank


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Surprize30, I love that avatar of yours. Such gorgeous colors.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

KadenJames said:


> Surprize30, I love that avatar of yours. Such gorgeous colors.


thanks X) its my moms old betta fish she used to have it spawn with my dads until he died his betta was almost solid black HM there babies were verry dark lol


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Here are some of the new pics of Sunny and Phyle (the moss ball, pronounced Phil)


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I would never discourage anyone from study or research, but saying that unless you study betta breeding for one year you are not qualified is a bit over the top. An how are you going to learn betta courtship rituals without actually doing it? And taking care of fry? I say don't discourage others from joining the exciting world of breeding!! Expensive? Well so are many other hobbies.... Study up on what you need for sure, but also learn by doing! Experience comes from making mistakes! Tell me now that you never mad any betta mistakes?

Jeff.



vilmarisv said:


> But why expose your fish to damage by not learning their behavior when you can have very peaceful spawnings where fish don't suffer from any damage? We call it betta care.
> I've only had one spawn where the pair attacked eachother during the courtship... it was my first. What did I do to fix this? I took a step back and did my research, learned betta behavior during courtship and adjusted my method. Never had a problem since.
> I've been around this forum for a while and I know that stubborn people who don't take advise will often fail on their spawns. Or their fry will not survive the first few weeks.
> There's so much to learn. You shouldn't discourage people from doing their research and being prepared. There's so much more to it than just putting 2 fish together in a tank. Bettas will often spawn, yes. But fry care is a whole different story and there's a lot of preparation to be done, not to mention the high cost of buying supplies and cultures for your growing fish.


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## Crowntailed (Apr 19, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Here are some of the new pics of Sunny and Phyle (the moss ball, pronounced Phil)


You should remove those sea shells soon as you can, They have been known to spike the PH level of the water very fast. Realy high PH can kill your fish quickly.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The moss balls are cool! Are those a live plant?


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Both are very good points. Study the doodoo out of it before you try it for the sake of your bettas' safety, and also develop your own method of doing things as you try your wings with it. That's one of my favorite parts of Betta breeding, I've never seen two breeders do it the same way. It really becomes a part of you.  

I used to have a moss ball, named it Greg. What is it about them that makes them so darn CUTE?!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Yah, haha! I was watching him for hours seeing if he would move... no avail... :O 

The shells have been in there for months.... I'll take them out soon. NOTE- I posted a few more Qs.... ;0 might have slipped back to the last page. I'll bet you all think I'm crazy by now...


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

_My dad found a little green moss ball and wanted that, so I figured that at least that would help filter the water. We named him Phil!  (Phil the filtering moss ball) Will the infucia grow on this? And then when you said that I need to put a bunch of live plants in a barrel and then take some water out... how will I know it will have infucia in it?mAnd if I put a bunch of water in, how am I going to take some out without taking out a bunch of babies.. I would get a bunch of plants and just put them in the tank for food, but I am not using dirt and so that is why I wanted to get Java Moss and let it float around... _

Moss balls will produce infusoria, but I wouldn't let your entire spawn feed off of it for longer than a day or two- it simply won't last. Java moss is the best, along with duckweed. I actually post ads on Craigslist asking people for any extra aquatic plants. Java moss grows like crazy and has to be trimmed now and then, so whenever people need to trim down I take the trimmings, all for free. A few days under your tank light or a bright lit room will definitely produce plenty of infusoria. If you want to harvest it separately, put either live plants, lettuce or a rabbit pellet in a jar of water and keep it in direct sunlight for a week or so. You'll see the water get cloudy, and then clear up. When it clears, you'll know you have infusoria because they are eating the cloudy bacteria. Then just take a turkey baster and suck up water from the jar into the tank, but I prefer to keep the live plants with the fry from the get-go.


_Just wondering, why can't I use frozen BBS instead of live ones? Less nutrition? Our pet store sells them in cubes and was thinking it would be less work. Or would that be a bad idea? I don't mind the extra work, just wondering why if they did sell them in babies. And if you were worried about them not learning to chase, that same TFS (tropical fish store) also sells adult/mid sized brine shrimpies and worms, so I was thinking that when they got older, that could be a good food option. Then they would get the frozen BBS as little babies (how long?), worms and BS (how long?), then transfer to pellets._

Live food for fry is the #1 choice every time. At this stage in their life, they are growing at an amazing rate every day- _every hour! _They NEED to have stimulation of live foods to get those motor skills a'crankin. It's been proven that live food at the fry stage produce overall stronger, more active and healthier adults. Frozen food is a good suppliment to live food, but it shouldn't replace it. You can ease them onto pellets when they're older, but during the first few weeks of life, they need live. In my opinion, harvesting live foods for your bettababies is more enjoyable than just thawing and dumping. Really makes you feel like "momma." xD


_Also: I am going to put something on the backside of the screen so the babies can't get stuck. Thinking Seran wrap or parchement paper on both sides. _

Be careful if you use saran wrap, you don't want the fry to get caught in between the divider and the wrap, because they won't be able to find their way out.


_And I went to the TFS and got a tank vacuum and more water conditioner, and saw a really pretty mustard gas veiltail (I think...) I had to totally walk away!_

Teehee, Bettajuanna is the most addicting drug out there!!


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## HatsuneMiku (Jul 29, 2011)

jeffegg2 said:


> Where is all this research that takes an entire year to study?? Perhaps by then you will have a Doctorate in Bettology?
> 
> Really now! But seriously, if you want to breed bettas, best to first learn to keep the fish and keep them healthy. If you can do that, then think about becoming a breeder.


Mr. V is accurate about the time frame .. it does take just about a year or so to form an adequate research base before attempting a first spawn ..

why make the mistakes for yourself to learn from and go through all of that stress .. when you can read someone else's previous mistakes and not make them yourself in the first place?

there is a lot of research you should do .. a lot of behavior patterns you need to recognize spot on .. you won't have time to ask for help on a forum if a situation arises that needs your immediate action .. and if you didn't do enough research it would be very difficult for you to recognize what kind of situations need what kind of actions .. you say that the fish will just do their thing .. but keep in mind you are breeding them in captivity .. therefore you are the one that needs to have full control .. otherwise that's just an irresponsible mindset going in ..

my first spawn is a complete success .. that fits exactly into my breeding goals and my spawn outcome is exactly as i projected they would be .. and since culling is a big issue for me .. my spawn method allowed me to not have to cull any of my spawn .. because i did a lot of research and yes it took about a year.. 

the whole "let nature do it's thing" mindset is just irresponsible


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you guys think it would be safe to put googlie eyes on Phyle?


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Do you guys think it would be safe to put googlie eyes on Phyle?


 
LOL. omg. *dying*


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Thats totally meeee!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

How old do the fry have to be before I can start feeding them the little live worms....?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Microworms?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Yes


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The microworms are for then the fry start free swimming (horizontal). They are really for the first week or so, then start feeding Baby brine shrimp.

jeff.


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## surprize30 (Apr 28, 2012)

when you frist start feedign the fry like after there doen with the infusia or whatever like after there fist week can u star on bloodworms?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Blood worms come WAY later... as in three months later if you're growing them correctly.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool... I have an AWESOME tropical fish store near by... they sell adult brine shrimp (for when the babies get older (How old??)), and micro worms. I am probably going to get some microworms for the first week of free-swimming, then get bbs going. Then, switch over to adult BS and finally to pellets


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh, and Sparta is in the States!!! Hope he likes it! I will post photos and start a spawn log when I start breeding him.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

HE"S HEREEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posting pics soon


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)




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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

A nice red! You should name him Clifford!!! hehe!

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

&#55357;&#56835; I'm going to start conditioning in a week or so!!!! Sooo excited


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## KadenJames (Mar 23, 2012)

Congrats!! He's GORGEOUS, I love that color.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks... I am going to start a 'breeding log' soon, like a spawn log but covering the acctual spawning, not just the fry.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

WOW! Sparta has tons of personality. So far, every fish I've ever had just swims around and ignores me unless I have food, but Sparta is amazing!!!! He chases fingers, flares at his food, attacks the plants, hides behind the heater, charges me, and even flares at nothing... on DAY 2 of being in the States!  Can't wait to see what the fry turn out to be like!!!


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## BeckyFish97 (Apr 9, 2012)

This is completely random but don't you need to QT him before breeding him?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> WOW! Sparta has tons of personality. So far, every fish I've ever had just swims around and ignores me unless I have food, but Sparta is amazing!!!! He chases fingers, flares at his food, attacks the plants, hides behind the heater, charges me, and even flares at nothing... on DAY 2 of being in the States!  Can't wait to see what the fry turn out to be like!!!


He is your first Betta?

Yes, that's what is wonderful about Betta's, they are very aware of what is going on around them. They also learn that when you come around they get food! 

Some fish you look at, Betta's look back at you!:shock:

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Nope, I've had tons before, they were all just boring old duds (LOL) 

I had no idea what quarentineing was.... he's in a shared tank so I assume that if he had something the female already got it......... looks healthy, no abnormalties, swimming fine, eating GREAT, not lethargic at all! Hopeing for the best


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I might be getting the male Nicebettas has for sale right now  She has such nice fish.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Hence the name Nicebettas. Lol


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you guys know how old the fry have to be when they start eating adult BS? I was thinking like 2mo?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Do you guys know how old the fry have to be when they start eating adult BS? I was thinking like 2mo?


Not sure, I just gave my 5 week fry a couple small frozen bloodworms. It was amazing that they actually got it into their belly!! Wow! They also eat an incredible amount of bbs! Little Pigs!!! hehe.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok! So BBS until 5-6 weeks, then frozen bloodworms, them live BS?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Ok! So BBS until 5-6 weeks, then frozen bloodworms, them live BS?


No, still feeding my fry BBS. It would be at least another week or so before mine are ready for grown up food... YMMV.

Live adult brine shrimp are kinda hard to come by here, so I use frozen bloodworms and frozen brine shrimp. I also like to use _some_ flake food even they don't get excited about it as it contains lots more vitamins.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

The Fish Store by my house sells live BS, and that is what I have been conditioning my pair with!  They LOVE them!!! So until 7-8 weeks BBS? How do i get infushia?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you think I should get a sponge filter for the babies in a 20g? Where can I get it for ~$10? I've heard that HMs need pristene water to keep thier fins clean, and even with plants and daily cleans, I think that a cheap filter is really going to improve the fry quality... whadda you think?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

4 bucks free shipping....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bio-Sponge-...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3a6d6fb065

8 bucks free shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-15-Gal-I...776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4600385a00



Thomasdog said:


> Do you think I should get a sponge filter for the babies in a 20g? Where can I get it for ~$10? I've heard that HMs need pristene water to keep thier fins clean, and even with plants and daily cleans, I think that a cheap filter is really going to improve the fry quality... whadda you think?


Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So if I got the 10-15g one, what other materials would I need? Ridgid air tubing and an air pump, right?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Mehhee! Just got the 10-15g one! YAY! It will be here ~Thursday! My breeding is coming together! I am also going to get an infuchia culture going in a while so that (even though I am going to have live plants) the babies do not starve. I will feed them that for 2 weeks, according to the website. So, it looks like this:

-Spawn
-Hatch
-Feed Infuchia (2 weeks)
-Feed BBS (7-8 weeks)
-Feed BS (Life)
-Spectrum Pellets (Life)


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> So if I got the 10-15g one, what other materials would I need? Ridgid air tubing and an air pump, right?


Yep!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So... I have a problem. 
I have been conditioning my pair for one week today, and even though they have been showing interist in eachother, the male has not blown a bubblenest and the female is not very eggy. (well she is slightly) They are in heated water, clean, IAL, and eating Live Brine Shrimp 2x per day. Sunny is in a cup and sees him for 10 perday. What am I doing wrong? Or do I just need to be more patient?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> So... I have a problem.
> I have been conditioning my pair for one week today, and even though they have been showing interist in eachother, the male has not blown a bubblenest and the female is not very eggy. (well she is slightly) They are in heated water, clean, IAL, and eating Live Brine Shrimp 2x per day. Sunny is in a cup and sees him for 10 perday. What am I doing wrong? Or do I just need to be more patient?


He might not make a next until after spawning, or even never at all. You can still have a sucessful spawn. All of age female Betta's have eggs. They don't have to "look eggy".

Give it a try....

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool! So I'll see when I can set up a spawn... how long can they condition for? And can they miss a few days becuase I am going out of town and don't want to breed now when my fry are going to miss 3 days of feeding. How old should the fry be when they can miss 1 day of feeding? (ex: miss Sat?)


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

They can always miss one day.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok cool! That's wonderful! For right now: Spawn date: May 30! That will give the eggs 3 days to hatch, then I will have the weekend to monitor and feed and give attention to. !!!!!!!!!!!!! So excited! ++Love my parents! Going to get the Java Moss today, do you think a few hunks of that will provide enough infucia? Oh, there is a moss ball too. Just kinda confused on how to grow infucia, and when to feed, so I was just going to go the natural way for a week or two. (infucia)


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Don't worry about infusoria, either they will be there or not.... Have some micro worms for the tiny mouthed fry, and some bbs for the big mouths!! You can give microworms a day or two after free swimming. and add a few bbs to see if they can fit them into their mouths yet. 

Once you see that they are eating start packing those bellies! hehe. I continue to feed both bbs and microworms for a varied diet.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh my gosh..................................................

Just had the biggest scare EVER!

I cleaned the H2O in the fish tank and refilled it decently high. Then I went off to do my homework, and when my mom and dad got home I went out to greet them in the garage, where the fish tank is. Boy was I surprized to see *****2***** red tails swimming around. Sunny apparently jumped a 1/8 of an inch TWICE to get to Sparta's tank. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 

So Little Miss 'I'm Gonna Ignore You Because I'm Just That Cool So What Now' really did LIKE Sparta. Breeding soon? I took her out and drained more water. I guess they want to breed NOW!

LOL


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Good luck, keep up posted.


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## Sceven (May 22, 2012)

I am so glad I read this, I am not ready for this! , thank you so much for making mistakes that I learned from. Truly it is very helpful. Maybe in a couple of months I will be ready, in the mean time I will focus on reading the spawn/breeding logs.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

This is an awesome thread! Man spawning bettas is full time! I love reading this and seeing people take great advise and keep from making huge mistakes! You guys are awesome! I hope the spawn is a success bc you are such a good listener. Gorgeous fish by the way!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks Guys!!!!! 

Sunny jumped the divider AGAIN but only got to the first compartment. Silly girl! :L Still need the Java Moss.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

The divider should be higher, or the water should be lower....

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

She jumped a 3/4 inch inch divider, out of the water. I really did not think she would clear it..... now it's 1.5in... not taking anymore chances. Apparently Sunny wants to be a showjumper!


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I put a male in a jar, and turned of the light for the night.

Woke up the next day, jar is empty... I found him under the table kinda dry like a potato chip. so I tossed him into the jar.

At first I thought he was a goner, then I saw some movement.... after an hour he was kinda wiggling.

He is still alive and very healthy... Amazing what these animals can take!! And I have a new respect for their jumping abilities...

And just a pet store betta...

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow...... yes they are amazing! Putting them in to spawn on Wed!!!! Flippin out i'm so excited!!!!


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## lilyth88 (Mar 15, 2012)

You should never put them in small containers (i.e. jars) without a lid of some sort. I've had bettas jump a full 4 inches vertically and over a barrier.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So today I went to the TFS and they still lacked to have Java Moss. "It will be here on MONDAY" they told me. So I got another type of floating/planted plant. It will only be in there for a few days before I plant it in gravel. (Ok?) 

QUESTION!!!!
-For the fry: what kind of lighting should I be using?


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

> You should never put them in small containers (i.e. jars) without a lid of some sort. I've had bettas jump a full 4 inches vertically and over a barrier.


20gallon tank. She had about 9 gallons of it. ...... and there is a lid.....


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> So today I went to the TFS and they still lacked to have Java Moss. "It will be here on MONDAY" they told me. So I got another type of floating/planted plant. It will only be in there for a few days before I plant it in gravel. (Ok?)
> 
> QUESTION!!!!
> -For the fry: what kind of lighting should I be using?



The spawning tank should not have gravel. Just use floating plants like java moss or java fern. If you must, use one of those little baskets for the rooted plants.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Lol. I mean in a different tank. I was going to take it out. My local store is being dumb and is not carring the Java Moss until Monday. So I'll get some then, for the fry to hide in and such, but I guess for now the spawning is on WED (6-6-2012). With the funny floating plant. Then when the fry are eating live food, I'll take the plant out and plant it in gravel in a different tank and let it grow, and when the spawn is all sold I'll move it back with Sparta and Sunny. OK?

Back to the lighting question.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> Lol. I mean in a different tank. I was going to take it out. My local store is being dumb and is not carring the Java Moss until Monday. So I'll get some then, for the fry to hide in and such, but I guess for now the spawning is on WED (6-6-2012). With the funny floating plant. Then when the fry are eating live food, I'll take the plant out and plant it in gravel in a different tank and let it grow, and when the spawn is all sold I'll move it back with Sparta and Sunny. OK?
> 
> Back to the lighting question.


Sounds like a plan... Good luck with your spawn.

I don't think fry care what type of lighting you use. I always use flouresent for plants and such as it is closer to what they need.

Jeff.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Lighting for fry doesn't really matter. As Jeff said, the light is mainly for the plants, and of course so we can see the fry


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Lighting doesn't matter IMO for fry. I do turn off lights for adults and I dim the lights for spawning pairs.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

How long should they be on? 24/7? Or day/night? Or not at all?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thomasdog said:


> How long should they be on? 24/7? Or day/night? Or not at all?


Depends on who you ask? I just kept the usual off for 8 on for 16 timer running. Once the eggs hatched, I left the lights on 24 hours until the fry were free swimmers. Then back to the timer.

Jeff.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't have a timer, so I'll do light in day, dark in night, except for when they are eggs and such.... then when they become free swimming I'll go back to night on/night off..

setting up spawn tank now!!!!!!!!!! YYAYYAYYAYYY!!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Sunny went through the diveders.... again!!!!!!!!!!!! So I am deciding to let them be. They obviously want it. But Sparta is taking a nap. So she just swims areound like a little kid....

Pics of the Spawining tank


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'd add some more plants


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

And now Sunny and Sparta are playing tag! ;D i'm in for a looong ride!!!! Vids to follow SOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I don't have anymore live ones........ but I'm more concerned for Sparta than Sunny, shes much more excited than he his!! LOL. But he's getting used to it.... watching ger, following her... the usual.... they are fliriting as I speak..


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So far, so good! Going to post a movie soon!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Uploading vid... you need to tell me if this is normal.... Sunny's being kinda mean, but no biting...yeat...

sparta will follow her, or run away, then he will just freeze and breathe and just sit theree..... is that normal or should i sepeate them...???


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

....  I seperated them. Poor Sparta got so tired of being flared at and chased around that he slipped under the divider and started freaking out like she was coming to get him. I'm waiting for the movie to post, so you can tell me if this was normal, and i just needed more time, or what I need to do... The problem wasen't Sparta, it was Sunny. She was just a mean old female, flaring and getting all huffy... (


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

The Movie::: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCV5-nLrQNA


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

The divider and lack of plants is the problem IMO. Sure I use small tubs but they are PACKED with plants. IMO there needs to be a good amount of them in there.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

So I'll get more plants today, and should I just take the divider out? Or try and block it off? 

*************Sparta built a bubble nest!!!!!!!!!!!! His first one!!!!!!!!!!!!! )))))******************


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

What did you think of their behavior? Was that normal or due to plants.. Sunny seemed pretty darn mean...  So more plants and block off the divider....  Spawn tonight if I can get the plants in time!!!


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

This site should help you alot. It is VERY informative

http://www.bettatalk.com/how_bettas_spawn.htm


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

They acted pretty normal IMO. More plants will help a lot.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

WOW that website was awesome!  So he built his first bubble nest last night and now she is in a glass jar and it is amazinh to see him go all crazy and flare and swim around her.... I hacve a feeling this is going to be an intersting spawn becuase she keeps flaring at HIM, and he runs away, then comes back.. ect. then he goes into shock mode and freezes, but he's not doing that quite so much anymore. Sunny just stares and flares.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

If she keeps flaring and not showing stripes Vertical stripes that is! and "lowering her head in submission" **, From what I read she may not be willing to spawn. I'm not a breeder so my opinion isnt one to sway this whole operation but you may want to try another female if you have a sibling. Her flaring constantly means she might not ever let him get close to her. But thats what I've read. 

Someone sent me this website too. I've been reading it here and there as I would like to try breeding around next year at this time. 

http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=722


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

You've never seen bettatalk? LOL. It's the #1 betta website. A little noobish for me to continue reading it but good for a new hobbyist.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Bettatalk is a great website and is full of good info.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

Sunny is still flaring, but she will get in Sparta's fins and not bite..... Sparta runs away and then goes really still... then Sunny leaves him alone and occasionally he flares and swims the S for her.... what to DO??><


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

be patient and wait unless you see serious damage, I suggest watching you tube or researching proper courtship behavior. There will be chasing, some nipping, he should be showing off, flaring at her, making the S formation, and tending his bubble nest. However if she does not receive him and make her vertical breeding stripes, lower her head in submission. Then you need to spend time watching them because she could ravage his gorgeous fins. He is a beautiful male.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

thanks!  still wating and watching.... \

OMG he's remaking a HUGE bubble nest... she's totally ingorning him. LOL Go Sparta goooo!!!! ))) Thanks for all the wonderful support, no fin nipping yet, but they are both looking awfully beautiful! NO vertical bars, she is too light. :*( kinda sucks, that would help a LOT! ><


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

switching over to a S_P_A_W_N log!!!!


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## AFishTale (Apr 14, 2011)

Good luck!


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

thanks! I think I'm gonna hold out on the spawn log, just woke up, no eggs, but she's not being as aggressive and now Sparta's holding his ground and trying to lure her under his bubble nest.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If all looks good.... leave. Check on them every hour for just a few minutes. You don't want to disturb them.


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

MrVampire181 said:


> If all looks good.... leave. Check on them every hour for just a few minutes. You don't want to disturb them.


+1

If they see you they think they are about to be fed and will tend to forget what they are suppose to be doing....

Jeff.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

If you want to keep an eye on them because you're afraid they might hurt/kill each other, just observe from across the room. Give them their space.


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## Thomasdog (Jan 26, 2012)

No biting, Sparta made his bubble nest HUGE, Sunny is still interstied, just keeps her distance. Waiting. Hoping. Praying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Moby (May 26, 2012)

any updates on this?


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