# Crashing the Freeze-Dried Myth



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, I just gotta crash this once and for all. 

*Freeze-dried foods are fine!* Really! They're not like fishy potato chips. 

Please consider the following (yes, it's from another post, only thing I did was correct which book I cited from David Boruchowitz - I have three of his books and got confused):

*With respect, I really don't understand the fuss over freeze-dried bloodworms. I think they are fine and have more than enough nutrition. 

In his book, Freshwater Aquariums, aquarist David Boruchowitz writes:
"Freeze drying is a process in which water is removed under low pressure and low temperature that preserves much of the original nutrition and palatability of food organisms."

In her book, Aquarium Care of Cichlids, aquarist Claudia Dickinson writes:
"Freeze drying retains much of the original nutrition and taste appeal, but in a much more convenient form."

Neither author says anything about them causing bloat.

David Boruchowitz has been an aquarist for over 60 years and is the editor-in-chief of the magazine Tropical Fish Hobbyist. Claudia Dickinson is a life member of the American Cichlid Association, where she serves on its board of trustees and managing editor of its publication. 

It is based on this information that I feel freeze-dried foods are fine. Whatever deficiency freeze-dried foods are lacking is made up in a variety of foods. Feeding a variety is the most important factor for good nutrition. *

I agree that you do not want to make freeze-dried foods a staple food because of the low protein - pellets or flakes should be the staple. But these foods also contain other nutrients that fish need, nutrients that are very much preserved by the freeze-drying process. The lack of protein can easily be compensated for by the feeding of a good quality pellet. 

Please don't keep perpetuating this myth that freeze-dried foods are like french fries from McD's. They're more like just one part of the food pyramid.

Heheh, okay, let the hate mail come.


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## Burd (Apr 10, 2011)

I've honestly not understood why I keep seeing people saying that freeze dried bloodworms are so bad. The protein content on the back says 48%. How is that bad? Aren't they the same bloodworms you'd feed live or frozen except preserved?

I dunno... it just seems kinda silly.


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## Littlebittyfish (Jan 5, 2011)

I am not really sure about them being low in protein...The side of my freeze dried bloodworm container lists that they have crude protein 50% fat2% crude fiber 15% max moisture 9%...But it doesn't list any other nutritional info....which is sort of concerning...However,
I recently read an article which claimed that frozen foods lose more nutrients than freeze dried...But it was only one article and I am definitely no expert...:lol:
The side of the bloodworm container also says to feed only 2-3 times a week...I usually only feed my guys 1 once a week because anymore makes them look a little bloated...I am guessing this is because when they are freeze dried they lose all moisture..So they must expand a little in the belly...I wouldn't feed freeze dried bloodworms as a main staple, but as a snack I don't see why not...I don't see it any worse than a low quality pellet made with corn soy and wheat...:hmm:
A variety of foods... live,frozen,freeze dried and good quality pellet is best though I think...:-D


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Burd said:


> Aren't they the same bloodworms you'd feed live or frozen except preserved?


Actually, another of David Boruchowitz's books says that frozen and freeze-dried foods can actually be more nutritious than live foods purchased at stores because of the conditions that some live foods are kept in. Like how feeder fish always look so . . . unappetizingly sick.

Hey yeah, you're right! I just looked at my Hikari Bio-Pure bloodworms and it says a whopping 65% on there. I guess I was listening to word-of-mouth about the low protein. Duh, shoulda checked the container sooner. I feel stupid. 

So far, I haven't noticed any bloat problems with my fish and I've been giving my guy about 1-2 small (less than a half inch) worms a day. But he also has such flowing fins that I think he'd have to be really, really bloated for me to be able to tell. I keep looking but he's as active and slim as ever, even bubblenesting. But I'm definitely going to keep an eye on him. 

And Littlebittyfish, I agree. I don't see how freeze-dried foods could be any worse than a low-quality pellet. I'm no expert either, that's for darn sure. I just like to quote the people who are. :lol:


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## trono (Mar 30, 2011)

I've always wondered about that too. Obviously, one does not want to feed freeze-dried foods daily, but I really don't think that they are unhealthy. Mine has 50% protein, which is comparable to the flakes I use


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The "all things in moderation" rule applies to fish food too, I guess.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

Yea, while there is a great deal of information to learn from sites like this one, there are also plenty of myths out there like the "fish with 15 second memory" etc. The freeze dried is another myth I tend to ignore. Let them believe what they want to believe, haha.


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## SillyCone (May 7, 2011)

I feed my fishes like mini granules in the morning and some freeze dried bloodworms in the evening as a late snack... They don't seem bloated other than full tummies happy fish 

I thought that maybe they were like chips cus you guys keep complaining about it, but on the box said it was fine and my fishes have been getting everyday more colourful since I started giving them those... well, guess everyone makes a mistake once in a while. xD


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

SillyCone said:


> I feed my fishes like mini granules in the morning and some freeze dried bloodworms in the evening as a late snack... They don't seem bloated other than full tummies happy fish
> 
> I thought that maybe they were like chips cus you guys keep complaining about it, but on the box said it was fine and my fishes have been getting everyday more colourful since I started giving them those... well, guess everyone makes a mistake once in a while. xD


Yep. On my freeze dried *gasp* Daphnia label it shows 66pct crude protein. All I know is I have never had issue with bloating with this product or bloodworms, all my babies (6 females + 1 male) are thriving and they devour this stuff. That's all that matters to me, :lol:


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## Burd (Apr 10, 2011)

scootshoot said:


> Yep. On my freeze dried *gasp* Daphnia label it shows 66pct crude protein. All I know is I have never had issue with bloating with this product or bloodworms, all my babies (6 females + 1 male) are thriving and they devour this stuff. That's all that matters to me, :lol:


Mine have been growing at amazing rates and the couple fish who have been tail biters or gotten into accidental fights and come out with a few cut-outs have all grown everything back and _then some_.

It was seriously disheartening that I had gone out and bought freeze dried bloodworms one day thinking I'd gotten my fish a tasty treat that was good for them only to then the next day see someone on here saying what garbage food it was. I felt like I had done something wrong... I'm glad I didn't worry about it. All of my fish have been perfectly healthy from day one with me and they get freeze dried foods every other day or so.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I think I've said that when someone's feeding only freeze dried as a staple food. I'll freely admit that I learned that here and just repeated it.  I don't use it because Tango never liked them and I tossed em. He had no clue what to do with them.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Actually, I'm just glad no one's mad at me for posting that. Everyone was so anti-freeze dried that I was worried they'd be mad at me for rocking the boat. Whew.


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

I never believed the 'never use theme myth... I think using them every day as a staple food is bad, as you said, they need more nutrients than that.

I think the 'bloating' issue is they feed their fish a whole one and the fish eats it all then it expands in their stomach. I feed smaller ones or break them apart and never had a problem.

I feed pellets, live fruit flies, and freeze dried blood worms. My fish never know what they're getting which helps their appetite, and they get a large variety of nutrition, too. 

I usually feed about 3-4 pellets a day, and sometimes take a pellet or two away and give 1-2 fruit flies or a single bloodworm piece.

They are at a good weight, no health issues I have noticed, growing nicely, never bloated, my female is usually carrying eggs, my male always bubblenesting.

That's why I never listened!


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## pinksnowme (May 31, 2011)

Can Betta have freeze dried shrimp? It says for Tropical fish on the label, but I haven't given him any yet...
I started him on pellets today. He was fed only freeze dried blood worms for a month before I got him.
While I was working on his bowl cover; a fruit fly landed on the table. I picked it up and fed it to him...gulp! I'm glad Laughing mentioned fruit flies


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yup, they love freeze-dried brine shrimp. Just give him a small (very small) crumble. Bettas are definitely tropical fish.


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## pinksnowme (May 31, 2011)

Just SO confused about the amount and feeding times 
Some say once a day.
Some say 4xs a day
Can anyone help me?
I got freeze dried shrimp
freeze dried blood worms 
and pellets
What would be a good ration for my guy???
Previous owner guesses he is about 4 months old (shrug)


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

Pinks- pellets should be the 'staple'. So I think every other day feed 4 pellets, two in the morning, two at night. Then every day in between that, take a pellet or two away and perhaps feed one pellet in the morning, either a shrimp or bloodworm SMALL piece not the whole thing, and a pellet at night. Be sure to randomly fast a day from the week! But stick to the same schedule even after fasting.

Say you feed pellets Sundays and every other day including Saturdays. You decide to skip Tuesday. The next day you do partial freeze dried anyways.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Honestly pinksnowme it really depends on the fish. Tango gets close to 10 pellets a day. He's INCREDIBLY active though. I can't stress enough how much that boy moves around. He's NEVER still. I mean, he's still somewhat thin on that diet. 

So you really have to take into account: level of activity, age, temperature and all that. Higher temps increase metabolism, activity and burn through nutrients faster. A slower betta who just kinda chills might not need as much food. I've never had one like that.

All of my guys have at least 6 -8 pellets a day but again, they're in 5 gallon tanks with filters and they're constantly swimming and playing under the filter flow. If there was no movement and they were instead just drifting about, I'd give them less. I've never had a bloat or constipation issue with any fish but I'm sure there are many who would say I'm overfeeding. You have to be your own best judge. All we can give are suggestions and examples.


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## pinksnowme (May 31, 2011)

<<<<scratches head....
good advice though
I have been feeding twice a day. 
One 1/4 inch piece of blood worm and one pellet
At night 2 pellets.
Blizzard is pretty active and seems to enjoy participating in everything we do in the dining room.I have 4 parakeets in there too. He sways from one side of the bowl to the other and follows anyone around! High level of activity but not jumpy. Just right. 
I will continue to feed 2 times a day unless he starts to look full 
And Sunday will be his fast day.
He got a special treat of a fruit fly that landed on the dining table today  Gulp and it was gone!
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions


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## laughing (Mar 12, 2011)

You want fasting day to be random.

Vaygirl- that is VERY interesting. Within a minute my male can eat nearly 10 pellets. So I would feed him 8 a day split into two meals. Everyone said he would bloat... But if yours haven't I might up him a bit.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

No, I haven't had any trouble with bloat. If your guy is extremely active and your temp is high (I keep mine at 80ish) then he'd likely burn it off but if he starts to look fat, it's easy enough to cut back. I used to feed Tango a lot less and he was just getting skinnier and skinnier. But whenever I look at him he's playing in the filter and flaring at the tank wall nonstop. His level of activity is OFF the charts.


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't like freeze dried foods simply because they dirty the water. (They flake apart!) And they aren't good as a staple, and all foods can cause bloat if you over feed them...AND I think feeding them every day isn't so good due to the fact that they aren't and never were very nutritious(bloodworms-live, frozen, or dried-doesn't really matter) . Protein obviously isn't the only thing fish need to be healthy. I also think that books aren't always accurate, so I personally value multiple people's experiences more than a book. I've been keeping fish for 10 years, so I'm not an idiot based on my experience, nor am I an expert, but I know what works for me. I've read that bettas can be kept in cups with no heaters in books, but that doesn't make it correct. 

Just saying that one person may have luck with freeze dried while another may not, regardless of what any one says.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

nowzem said:


> I don't like freeze dried foods simply because they dirty the water. (They flake apart!) And they aren't good as a staple, and all foods can cause bloat if you over feed them...AND I think feeding them every day isn't so good due to the fact that they aren't and never were very nutritious(bloodworms-live, frozen, or dried-doesn't really matter) . Protein obviously isn't the only thing fish need to be healthy. I also think that books aren't always accurate, so I personally value multiple people's experiences more than a book. I've been keeping fish for 10 years, so I'm not an idiot based on my experience, nor am I an expert, but I know what works for me. *I've read that bettas can be kept in cups with no heaters in books, but that doesn't make it correct. *
> 
> Just saying that one person may have luck with freeze dried while another may not, regardless of what any one says.


Wow, what book did you read that malarky in? I hate when authors write about stuff they don't know about, don't you? 

Yup, you're right, many people's experiences are great. I use the knowledge in the books as a starting point and I'm really careful which books and authors I choose. I'm not going to believe a fish book written by Martha Stewart, after all. But it's based on the info in the books and the fact that I haven't really heard anyone concretely say that the freeze-dried foods cause bloat that I believe they're safe. In the end, though, it's up to every individual aquarist to make the call about what they want to feed. 

By the way, nowzem, what makes you say bloodworms aren't nutritious? Just curious.


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, they have low nutritional value...'s like eating nothing but hamburger 24-7. Although bettas are insectivores and we aren't LOL.  They are mostly protein, with a slight fat content. Not much in the way of vitamins or other things. Frozen and freeze dried may be slightly better due to the addition of vitamins and other goodies during the process, but most of these are lost through rinsing or the second they hit the water in your aquarium.

I actually read that they ARE nutritious and that they AREN'T, but mostly I've seen aren't, so I'm sticking with that... 

I just read this: The nutritional value of bloodworms is considered to be very good. Chemical analysis shows that bloodworms contain about 9% dry matter and of this about 65% is crude protein, ten percent is crude fat and about 10 percent is ash. They contain 15% Nitrogen free extract. They are also a good source of iron for fish since they contain hemoglobin in their blood. 

From a non-reputable source (most internet sources are non-reputable LOL) So I guess its debatable. I'm not sure what bettas get in the wild as far as nutrition...so I can't REALLY claim that they are good or bad, I suppose. However, on the same page, someone else disputes that claim. I still think they are best only in moderation and as an addition to pellets, but again, that's just my opinion!


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

OH and one of my aquarium books from the 70's says bettas min tank size is 0.5g and room temp....don't remember which one


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pretty much everything is best in moderation.  I figure the freeze-dried bloodworms are like getting to have a steak every now and then instead of hamburger helper.

I guess we can forgive the author of that book - it WAS the 70's after all. ;-)


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## nowzem (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, I agree. You should try mosquito larva if you can stomach it! Bettas love 'em! I actually feed a mix of flakes and freeze dried as a staple to my community (the bettas are too slow and the tetras eat ALL the pellets, so flakes work best in that tank.) But I don't like the freeze dried BWs I bought. They really make a mess.. Maybe its the brand I use?

And I think that a lot of the aquarium stuff is wrong that's in older books. They just didn't know any better


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Mosquito larva . . . personal comfort versus happiness of bettas . . . I think personal comfort is winning for now. 

I use Hikari Bio-Pure for my bloodworms. I did try their freeze-dried brine shrimp but the cubes were huge and when I crumbled off enough for one betta, it dissolved before my guy could get a bite and made a mess of the filter intake. So out those went.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

This is quite interesting, I was of the believe that all freeze dried foods were "bad" or well, the potato chip analogy. I admit I still won't feed em to my boy too often, he gets frozen once a day, but I don't mind giving him a treat maybe twice a week, especially if he does something absolutely adorable.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Silverfang said:


> This is quite interesting, I was of the believe that all freeze dried foods were "bad" or well, the potato chip analogy. I admit I still won't feed em to my boy too often, he gets frozen once a day, but I don't mind giving him a treat maybe twice a week, especially if he does something absolutely adorable.


Sounds like he'll be getting a treat at least once a week then because when _hasn't_ a betta done something adorable? ;-)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't think there is anything wrong with freeze dried food as long as it's fed in moderation and is not their staple diet.


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