# Mixing my male and female



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

Hello friends!
I currently have two male bettas. Narcissus and Charlemagne. I was planning on buying three females tomorrow. I was reading online that you could mix female and male bettas. I read several stories where a male and female betta lived in harmony together even without spawning. They slept together even! Also there were multiple female with a single male. So here is my question. I want Narcissus or Charlemagne to have that sort of relationship with a female. I completely understand that it's not for all fish But I want to know how I would go about finding out if my fish would do it. How could I introduce a female to my betta? How do I know I can release her into the tank? What precautions should I take? I do have tanks for the females to be separate or together when I get them. So if it backfires I have an escape plan. Thank you!


----------



## KirstenMarie (Dec 23, 2012)

I don't think it would be a good idea to have them together like that unless they have been together since they were fry, and I don't think even that is the best idea. Unless the males AND females were extremely timid/shy and gentle, You should probably just have them together for spawning.(If that's what you intend to do in the future.)


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Really I only see this ending badly. Splendens are not fish that can live happily in male/female pairs or as a single male with multiple females. There are rare instances where it does work for some time, but usually the wheels fall off the wagon and it all ends in disaster. 

I know as I had the females in my sorority basically kill a male that had lived peacefully with them for a year and a half. 

Fish do not have relationships. They are not people, and splendens in particular being aggressive and territorial fish usually only pair up for spawning purposes. After the spawning is over, the male will chase the female away from the nest and their time of being together is over.


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

But I've heard of it being done and being fine until death do they part. and I dont mean death due to killing but natural causes.


----------



## KirstenMarie (Dec 23, 2012)

They were most likely together as fry. And even if it has been done, chances are.. it is going to be extremely rare for it to occur again.


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

Ok then any advice on creating a sorority with my females if I do purchase them tomorrow?


----------



## KirstenMarie (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm not quite familiar with sororities, as I prefer females only to spawn and in my opinion I believe they are just to drab for my taste. Maybe someone with more experience in that area with post soon. 

Good luck with everything your planning though!


----------



## MSG (May 8, 2012)

*Actions & pictures to verify such claims speak louder than words on the Internet.*

Don't believe it can be done unless you have a really LARGE tank 30 or 40 gallons with tons of live plants & arranged like a underwater jungle. 

I'm sure it can happen, on very rare occasions, but from what I know and experienced, I highly doubt cohabitation is possible & even if it seems peaceful @ first, I highly doubt this PEACE will last longer than 1-2 months MAX before one or both fish end up killing each other.

Feel free to experiment on your two male bettas and prove us naysayers wrong.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sororities do best with a minimum of five females. High stocking levels help to disperse aggression and prevent individual weaker fish from being continually harassed. It's the same kind of method people use when housing aggressive African cichlids. 

You want a lot of cover in a sorority tank. The weaker females need somewhere to get away, particularly around the upper levels of the tank when they come up to breathe and feed. I really like to use live plants in a sorority, particularly fast-growing stems as they provide a lot of coverage and help with improving water quality. The idea is to break up the line of sight from one end of the tank to the other. 

Try and choose the youngest (identifiable) females you can. This increases your chances of them being comfortable with living in a sorority. Older, mature females tend to be more violent and territorial and are usually the ones that will need to be removed because of continued aggression. 

You have to maintain essentially pristine water conditions for a sorority to work. A sorority can be a stressful environment, and stress in fish is a big trigger for disease. You don't want to be contributing to this stress and the possibility of disease by letting your parameters slip. I lost nearly 50% of my sorority (nearly all imported and expensive females) in one night because I made a stupid error of judgement and didn't check my parameters when I should have. 

If a female is being particularly aggressive, leaving her in the sorority but in something like a breeders' net where she is in visual contact with the other females, can help with a more peaceful transition. I usually leave aggressors in there for a week or so and then let them out. 

It is normal for females to fight quite violently for several days while they sort out their pecking order. But if it is sustained and a lot of physical damage is being done to the fins and scales, it may be time to separate one or both fish out using the above method. 

Some females will never adapt to life in a sorority so you have to be prepared to have back-up plan in case things don't pan out. This could be rehoming or rehousing but it is only going to end in disaster if you continually force the issue. 

An important rule, is to quarantine any new females for at least two weeks before introducing them to your existing sorority. You do not want to risk introducing a disease into your tank as this can be devastating.

Finally, the minimum tank size for a sorority in my opinion is 10-15 gallons. I would not go any smaller than a 10 unless you have extremely young siblings and you are planning on upgrading once they mature.


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

Thank you for that LittleBettaFish! That helps a lot!


----------



## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

There are also cases of wild cheetahs adopting Nd befriending domesticated dogs but I would't drop my pup off at the zoo and put him in the cage with a cheetah..

I agree not a good idea


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

No worries Mirage23. 

I really enjoyed my sorority tank when I had it, and being able to house numerous females in the same tank also helped cut down on maintenance and equipment costs.

If you do your research and set the tank up correctly from day one, you shouldn't run into too many issues. I had a sorority tank of some sort for around two years and if it wasn't for budget and space constraints I'd set up another one.


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

A sorority is a good idea, I am currently making a plan for one, but yeah male and females shouldn't be together unless spawning. I once when I was new to betta keeping kept two females and a male together. They were peaceful for about two years. Then one of my females got egg bound and died. That's when my male started chasing my other female. So just stick with a sorority. Glad you asked before trying


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

My sorority seems to be doing fine at the moment so I'm excited


----------



## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

What people fail to say when they claim to have males/females together is that they live in harmony for a week.. possibly two.. or even less. Most people post their "friendly" fish just shortly after introducing, but fail to say that a week later one or both is dead. 

It IS possible if you have the right temperamental bettas, and a very large tank (55g+) that is extremely heavily planted. One member here is successful with it, but that is after generations of siblings and trial/error.

Would be nice if it were possible.. would solve a lot of my space issues  lol

But everyone here has you covered.. sorority of 4+ females (based upon size of tank), lots and lots and lots of plants mid - top level.

Good luck


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

Myates said:


> What people fail to say when they claim to have males/females together is that they live in harmony for a week.. possibly two.. or even less. Most people post their "friendly" fish just shortly after introducing, but fail to say that a week later one or both is dead.
> 
> It IS possible if you have the right temperamental bettas, and a very large tank (55g+) that is extremely heavily planted. One member here is successful with it, but that is after generations of siblings and trial/error.
> 
> ...


Actually two members that I know of, Mo and Oldfishlady


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone! Awesome advice from everyone! Because of space tho, my tanks are next to each other. Narcissus has a front row view of the ladies. He's been bubble nesting and I've seen the ladies watch him before. I think that boosted his ego


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

lolXD


----------



## txbettaowner (Nov 28, 2012)

Putting a male and a female together is like putting to males together in a tank. Nothing good will come of it. I have a 10 gallon tank that did house 6 betta females but my one became very aggressive so she had to be removed. Even females together can get aggressive so putting a territorial male with a sometimes territorial female is not a good idea.


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

it's ok tx, she's starting a sorority instead


----------



## txbettaowner (Nov 28, 2012)

Sororities are better and easier (almost all the time). Just make sure you know what you are getting in to before you realize you are in over your head.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

The OP has been provided with a decent amount of information on sororities (it was on the first page) and there are enough threads kicking around on this forum to show the pros and cons of them. 

Starting a sorority isn't too hard if you've done some reading beforehand.


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

Sadly my mom decided I can't get a sorority because I might have to seperate an aggressive female if she stays aggressive. Good luck with yours!


----------



## txbettaowner (Nov 28, 2012)

That's sad to hear lillyandquigly. I just purchased my first HalfMoon male betta. He is beautiful. Now I see why you all buy males.


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

I really wanted a sorority too, but I'll just make the best of it. Now when I move out I know what to do if I want one I think I will probably instead then buy an hmpk maybe


----------



## txbettaowner (Nov 28, 2012)

Yeah. Halfmoons are very beautiful


----------



## lillyandquigly (Nov 24, 2011)

I had an hm, his name was Fhil, he was red with purple irridesence. Sadly dropsy got him but he was the sweetest


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

So far my sorority is doing find except one (still unnamed) is being super aggressive. I hate to interfere with the pecking order but she was ripping them apart. I took her out of course. But she might be a he after all. Still unsure.


----------



## txbettaowner (Nov 28, 2012)

How long have you had them all in the tank together? If you have had them together for less than 2 days then you need to wait until 2 days of them being together before you take her/him out. If it is a male then it is smart to remove him


----------



## LeoTheLakerBetta (Oct 12, 2012)

Ugh don't get me started on gender mixes at the Petstore. I found a really nice looking girl that seemed to have short fins and had an eggspot. But when I took her home and had "her" in the breeder's box. Beardie! Falring away with a decent sized beard. None of my girls have gills like that so I decided not to take a chance and returned him. I didn't have any room for the little guy but I made sure he had nice clean water in his cup. And I added some extra StressCoat.


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

I took her out yesterday night, her third day. She has a pretty gnarly beard and when her cup is put by my males tank they flare non stop. So she's kind of isolated right now. Poor thing. But I don't know what else to do


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Unfortunately, that can sometimes be the case with sororities. If you do think at a later date she is a female you can always try leaving her in the sorority in something like a breeders' net. I used to do that with highly aggressive females as after about a week of visual but not physical contact with the other females they tend not to react so violently. 

However, it doesn't work with some females. I had a couple who had to live by themselves permanently.

Here was what a 'female' from my first sorority looked like when I got her. Even then I had my suspicions. 









This was him a few months later










I've found the angle and size of the anal fin can be a good indicator as to whether the fish is male or female. Males seem to have a bigger and more angulated anal fin than females. 

Also if your female is light coloured you should be able to see the ovaries.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Wow what a beatiful male.


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

LBF, is he still in the sorority tank to this day? He's quite a looker, I like his color and his dorsal.


----------



## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I wonder if being raised with the girls lowered his aggression?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

He was really young when I got him. I had the five of them in a 7 gallon heavily planted tank and they all lived peacefully. 










That is him at the bottom. He just didn't like blue females. Anyone else was fine. Only made one pitiful attempt at a bubblenest. 

He lived with a varying group of females for I think over a year. Until one day I came down to find him floating at the surface with all his fins torn off. He survived and he started to come around only to die a week or so later.

This is why I tell people I will never keep a male and female in the same tank. I lost a beautiful male because I underestimated the unpredictability and sheer violence of these fish.


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

He was beautiful, I'm sorry for your loss. Tikibirds has a male in her sorority, same problem on how young males look like females. He changed so much from blue marble to a sheer blue.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

It was a while back. But it taught me a darn valuable lesson on never thinking you can predict anything that these fish might do. 

Everything might seem like it is going along well but it doesn't take long for it all to go pear-shaped. It's why I warned the OP about the risks of mixing males and females together. It's just too hard to guess how it is going to turn out.


----------



## Mirage23 (Dec 24, 2012)

Yep... It was a boy. Put him in a breeders net for now. He seems fine but time will tell for sure


----------

