# Myths about sexing bettas



## Dragonlady

*Myths about sexing bettas*
When you have a tank full of juvenile bettas, sexing them can be quite tricky as a new breeder. I thought it might be helpful to other breeders to share some of the things I have learned about this tedious task. There are 2 main myths I would like to clear up.

*Myth# 1*
*If the betta fish has what appears to be an egg spot, the fish is female.*

Fact: Although this can sometimes be true, there are exceptions. 
I have seen young bettas that have what appear to be egg spots at a few months of age that turn out to be males. The "egg spot" mysteriously disappears as the fish grows longer fins. Things are not always as they appear.
This picture is a good example of a young male that seems to show an egg spot.









This is the same fish about a month later.










*Myth #2*
*If the betta fish shows vertical bars, the fish is female.*

Fact: Immature male bettas will often show vertical bars while in a group of bettas. Vertical stripes is how bettas show submission, and even an adult
male may show vertical stripes. When a male betta shows these stripes, it seems to communicate that he is submissive to the other fish. Perhaps 
he is scared, stressed or wants to avoid a fight.

Here is a juvenile betta showing vertical bars that later developed into a male.









The only sure way to tell apart females from male bettas is to hold the fish up to a very bright light and look for ovaries. The body shape is often shorter and curvier on female bettas, but well fed juvenile fish can all look curvy. The anal fin and ventral fins of male bettas is usually more pointed
and longer. Female plakats may appear to be male if you go by fin shape. Unless you can see ovaries when held up to the light, the fish might not be female.


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## dramaqueen

Good info! Thanks for posting this.


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## kpullen89

This is kinda off topic but I didn't know a betta's colors change so dramatically as they grow. Great info though! I'm not a breeder but this stuff is so interesting to me.


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## 1fish2fish

Don't expect aggression to be a tell tale symptom either. I have a dominant female in my fry tank who flares all the time but she is most definitely a female (light bodied so the ovaries are clearly visible).


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## Ethan

this should be a sticky great info!


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## Busted

Thanks for the information


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## Nutt007

Heh. Nice info! But where do you look for ovaries?


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## Crazykat

My boy has an egg spot. Super confusing when I first got him, because in every other way he is definitely male. I was worried there was some wierd hormonal thing going on. :-? It's a relief to know that other males have an egg spot. I think this should be stickied too!


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## MrVampire181

I vote to sticky this! Everything she posted is 100% true.


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## baylee767

I'm not a breeder, but this is good for sexing if, say, testing if your sorority females are really female. Great info! And I agree it should be stickied!


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## effy

would be good to see a picture of the lit up ovaries described hint hint  v handy thread


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## bettalover2033

i agree its very true and should be noted for everyone to see.

But isn't it also true that bettas can change gender if not sexed between the months of 5-10 months old?


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## 1fish2fish

They can't "change" gender. A female will not suddenly lose ovaries and become a male. Some fry are just slow developers and may not show male/female tendencies until later in development.


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## Dragonlady

1fish2fish said:


> They can't "change" gender. A female will not suddenly lose ovaries and become a male. Some fry are just slow developers and may not show male/female tendencies until later in development.


 
1fish2fish, 

I respectfully disagree. 

Given the right conditions, female bettas are capable of changing to male. Of course it does not happen suddenly. According to my source, if a female has spawned, she will always be female. Of course there are some males that are just slow developers, or maybe not? Anyway, I personally have seen cellophane fish with very visible ovaries that matured later into fully functioning males. I thought I was going crazy until I asked someone at a show who would know more than me about bettas changing sex. Many types of fish are capable of changing their gender. It is not unusual at all for fish. For example clownfish can change from male to female and Centropyge angelfish can change from female to male. Anyway, yes female bettas may be capable of changing to male just like many other types fish.


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## Ethan

1fish2fish said:


> They can't "change" gender. A female will not suddenly lose ovaries and become a male. Some fry are just slow developers and may not show male/female tendencies until later in development.



I agree why would a male turn into a female? Its like pulling off the egg spot of a female betta and saying its now a male!:roll: I only say this because why would there be male and female for fish every kind of fish if they weren't different? They can't fertile each other and eggs come out of both.:lol: only the female releases the eggs not the males.


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## Dragonlady

As far as I kinow, male bettas cannot change into females.


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## soccerdog693

My male ct (see avatar) has the egg spot and yellowish patch on his belly.

He can't be a female right? because of his fins?


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## MrVampire181

IMO they can't change gender. I have a male that even the experts said was female and guess what...he's a daddy! I think these cases are just mistaken identity of the fish...still interesting though.


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## Dragonlady

Although it has not been officially documented with bettas, many types of fish in general are capable of changing their gender naturally. This is a proven fact. I'm not really 100% sure if bettas can change their gender, but Leo Buss told me that he thinks they can change from female to male. I respect his opinion.


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## bettalover2033

Ethan said:


> I agree why would a male turn into a female? Its like pulling off the egg spot of a female betta and saying its now a male!:roll: I only say this because why would there be male and female for fish every kind of fish if they weren't different? They can't fertile each other and eggs come out of both.:lol: only the female releases the eggs not the males.


Actually i would have to disagree because lets say in a situation that they were about to go extincted. What would they have to do? Adapt and this is when evolution occurs. well lets say that their are too many females and the females copy the males? They would then turn into males.


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## TheKingsFish

baylee767 said:


> I'm not a breeder, but this is good for sexing if, say, testing if your sorority females are really female. Great info! And I agree it should be stickied!


Currently in this boat with one of our "females." See thread titled "Dude looks like a lady?"


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## PeggyJ

I dont know if it is true for bettas.. but dragon lady is correct that many fish do this. Grouper change gender and so do swordtails. I believe it is generally females changing to male. I've read that they do this if there are not enough males in their living space. I have personally seen one of my female swordtails change.


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## nOOb iHACK

I agree... I don't believe bettas are hermaphrodites or capable of changing their sexes. I know most fish are, though. I have paired different clown fish to one another and one of them (usually the smaller one) turns into a male.

Great info on determining the sex but would you please explain or show photos of a betta in the light with ovaries showing?


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## bettalover2033

nOOb iHACK said:


> Great info on determining the sex but would you please explain or show photos of a betta in the light with ovaries showing?


I would like to see this as well.


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## Dragonlady

Although I can see in real life on darker bodied females when held up to a bright light, it is easier to photograph on lighter bodied females. The best comparison I can think of is looking at a baby chick through an egg shell under a bright light to check for female organs. I hope this helps explain how to identify a female betta a bit better. 

Anyway, here are several photo examples of where to look to see if you have a female betta.











The female parts are located where she bars up.




























By the way, here is an article that proves that female bettas are capable of sex reversal. 

*Sex reversal in female Betta splendens as a function of testosterone manipulation and social influence*
*Abstract*

In Experiment 1, female Betta given daily injections of testosterone (T) for 9 weeks acquired anatomical features characteristic of males as indicated by changes in fin length, body coloration, and gonadal morphology. These findings suggested that a potential for sex reversal exists in females of this species. In Experiment 2 we measured changes in aggressive behavior during testosterone-induced anatomical changes. Aggression decreased toward females and increased toward males as treatment with T progressed. The final displays of aggressive behavior and anatomical characteristics of fish injected with T resembled those of typical males. In Experiment 3, female Betta primed with T injections for 3 or 6 weeks and permitted to interact socially with females continued to display characteristics of sex reversal after T supplementation ceased. Sex reversal in isolated fish injected with T for 3 or 6 weeks was not sustained, and fish receiving only the control vehicle showed negligible change in both the isolated and community conditions. We discuss the results in terms of similarities with the sex change process found in isolated communities of coral reef fish.

Source: 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3180734


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## bettalover2033

Thats a very good source. Okay so basically females CAN change into males right?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

Oh my gosh... doesn't this doom the whole sorority senario??? Especially if the 'females' are all young???? :|

Ow, my brain hurts.....


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## Oldfishlady

From my understanding-this is artificial sex reversal and not natural sex reversal, however, I have seen natural sex reversal is some species of saltwater species.....I have not been able to find any information on natural sex reversal in the Betta splendens only artificial in scientific research

Got any scientific study links for natural sex reversal....this is a very interesting subject.....

Here is a link about sex reversal in dogs....http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mrd.1080390102/abstract

I wish you didn't have to buy some of the studies they have on that site...some would really be interesting to read


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## baylee767

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> Oh my gosh... doesn't this doom the whole sorority senario??? Especially if the 'females' are all young???? :|


This. At my Petco they only sell very young females. So does that mean if i setup a sorority with them they will change gender? Boy this really confuses things.

I always knew some fish change gender, but Not Betta 0.0


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy

baylee767,

Now I'm wondering if the bettas bought retail are all sexed CORRECTLY. O_O

Your average consumer: a) wouldn't know the difference; b) would only put one betta per container; and c) isn't going to try to build a sorority.

Argh.


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## PeggyJ

I know all my females are females because they've all mated at one time or another....  pretty easy to tell that way.


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## MrVampire181

I've been able to successfully tell gender by the shape of the face...males have thicker gill plates and tighter jaws.


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## bettalover2033

MrVampire181 said:


> I've been able to successfully tell gender by the shape of the face...males have thicker gill plates and tighter jaws.


Actually with this i agree because now that you mention this i see how you've concluded that.


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## MrVampire181

bettalover2033 said:


> Actually with this i agree because now that you mention this i see how you've concluded that.


 I can usually just look at the face and be able to tell. Also the larger the fry the better chance that it's a male.


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## bettalover2033

MrVampire181 said:


> I can usually just look at the face and be able to tell. Also the larger the fry the better chance that it's a male.


True but not all males are bigger than females.


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## PeggyJ

Good info you guys.


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## bettalover2033

MrVampire181 said:


> I can usually just look at the face and be able to tell. Also the larger the fry the better chance that it's a male.


Hey MrV for example to back my statment up i would like to give examples from pictures i just took yesterday.

So can you tell which is the female and which is the male? Im testing you:-D

The first picture is a test. the rest are just for fun


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## bettamaniac

according to that article bettas can change their sex but they said they were able to get them to do this by giving them doses of testosterone and they were injected with it so this could only happen with females meaning unless for some reason their was a way for females in a sorority to receive doses of testosterone they will stay female


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## MrVampire181

The top picture in't easy but I guess...the one on the right is female.

Where did you get those PKs?


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## bettalover2033

*I got them from The_k on aquabid why?Also i got my HMPK boy (in the picture) a couple months ago.*


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## MrVampire181

I knew they wre from him! His fish just have that "look" haha. My male from him died....but I still have the female and 17 juvies from him.


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## bettalover2033

MrVampire181 said:


> I knew they wre from him! His fish just have that "look" haha. My male from him died....but I still have the female and 17 juvies from him.


I know its like that signature breed that you just KNOW are from him lol.

Oh, im sorry about you male. *Sigh*.

Well at least you have juvies to continue the line.

I want to get a female from him but he has no auctions up since the move.


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## MrVampire181

I can send you a female when they're ready for shipment


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## bettalover2033

MrVampire181 said:


> I can send you a female when they're ready for shipment


*Really?! So how old are they now?*


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## Dragonlady

MrVampire181 said:


> I've been able to successfully tell gender by the shape of the face...males have thicker gill plates and tighter jaws.


 
Is this what you mean? One is an immature male and one is a female.


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## Learn To Fly

Lol BL2033, I could tell that the one on the left was a male because...it was like my boy staring at me lol! Just makes sense that he would, since he's from the_K.


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## bettalover2033

Learn To Fly said:


> Lol BL2033, I could tell that the one on the left was a male because...it was like my boy staring at me lol! Just makes sense that he would, since he's from the_K.


*He is the one that has the most energy in him. I love having him

What does yours look like do you have a picture of him?*


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## MrVampire181

Dragonlady said:


> Is this what you mean? One is an immature male and one is a female.


 Yup that's it


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## turtle10

Though this could help when sexing lol


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## PeggyJ

very cute! but only one thing... female fish dont have feet!


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## turtle10

Haha you're right, maybe it is like a little slippers they put on their fins. lol


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## PeggyJ

pretty avatar by the way


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## turtle10

Thanks


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## bettalover2033

HaHa!
Turtle thats very cute.


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## BettaLover101

So can adult male have an 'egg spot' under their belly, or is that just females?


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## bettalover2033

BettaLover101 said:


> So can adult male have an 'egg spot' under their belly, or is that just females?


Yupp thats JUST females


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## BettaLover101

That is really confusing now because that means that two of my females were flirting with eachother today. XD


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## bettalover2033

BettaLover101 said:


> That is really confusing now because that means that two of my females were flirting with eachother today. XD


WHAT? Post pictures of the two. What is your definition of flirting? What were they doing?


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## BettaLover101

One of the females will just flare at the other and the other one will flare a little, turn sideways, and wiggle its body in an 's' shape like a male does when he flirts with a female. lol


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## bettalover2033

Well thats not flirting when its females. They are showing dominance and you if they ARE doing that, then you should watch those two, because they might start fighting, so be careful.


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## BettaLover101

they won't start fighting XP. They are in seperate containers, I was just giving them their daily 10 minutes of face time, lol.


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## Hadoken Kitty

bettalover2033 said:


> Yupp thats JUST females


This is incorrect. I have two males from Thailand that have ovipositors under their bellies. They are 100% male, though.


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## GoodMorning

^those guys are sick or ate too much, lol.


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## trilobite

Me too, Ive had males with a white spot on their bums, although its not an ovipositor, it could easily be mistaken for one. Ive also had males bar up and a female kill another betta. 
You can get crazily masculine females with very long fins so short fins isnt an indicator either haha


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## Hadoken Kitty

GoodMorning said:


> ^those guys are sick or ate too much, lol.


Uh, no. An ovipositor wouldn't just pop out from a male eating too much.


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## Myates

I forget what it is called in males.. but it's not uncommon to see males with it, especially very young ones.


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## LittleBettaFish

Nearly all my wild species males have one. It's why it makes it hard to sex some of them because they can be nearly identical in appearance. I find the ovipositor is not a very good way to determine sex.


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