# "But the fish store guy SAID it was okay!"



## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

_(bit of a word wall; there's a tl;dr at the bottom if you don't want to read a painfully long ramble about my childhood issues)_


Hopefully I'm putting this in the right section...my particular case doesn't/won't involve betta fish, but I figure it must be a common problem, so I threw it up here to see what everyone else has to say. Fair warning, I'm typing this at 4AM with new-tank-induced insomnia (I dreamed that ALL the plants came to life LSoH-style and threw Altair out of the water, at me and there might have been a musical number, I don't even know. I might also have a fever. I'm sorry in advance.)

So, goodnews/badnews time. Good news, my newfound fish mania has potentially prompted my parents to get some fish of their own. 
I live at home because hey, free food and no rent, and have overheard their plans to maybe dig a 'koi' (goldfish, they don't know the difference...honestly neither do I...) pond in the back yard (it's a 1-acre lot, we have the room if you have enough time/explosives to get through the _lovely _texas bedrock.) which is cool, we've had one before in a rental house. The fish surived even. 
here's the bad news. 

My parents have this problem where everyone on earth is more credible than I am. I have been told, to my face because my family does _not_ do the shy thing, that I don't know anything about anything, over issues that I have been more qualified to deal with for YEARS. (computers mostly, but cats as well, television, luggage location, how to navigate new york city...) 
Luckily they haven't _physically_ tried to stop me from buying what my fish needs (Though I do get the 'girl you crazy' look from my mom at least three times a day.) but I've been getting "but the girl at the fish store said your fish is in a little fishie mansion, why are you upgrading the tank? (1.5gal->5gal)" Throughout this whole endeavor. 

These are the same people who bought me a 10 gallon fish tank when I was five, stocked it with goldfish, platys and neon tetras, set it up in my room and changed the water when it was too murky green to see the fish. 
and then restocked the fish when they died without ever changing their cleaning habits.
Because the fish store people said it only needed cleaning twice a year.

I love my parents, but really?
They're getting on in years(not gonna say how much to avoid offending anyone here) and turning even more stubborn as they go. The internet is not a credible resource, and neither are books because the fish store person said so. Unless what the fish store person says is inconvenient, in which case, it's because _Dad's_ research says so. 
I'm pretty sure I could drag a nobel prizewinning marine biologist in front of them with proof and it would still be because the fish store person said so.
I know that people have to have the problem, with Bettas especially, considering all of the urban legends out there about them. 


tl;dr: My family is potentially insane and doesn't listen to me about fish care.

So, what do you do to avoid fish abuse when your family decides fish, bettas especialy, are a maintenance-free pet?


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## Minnieservis (Mar 12, 2013)

You know, I recently got back into betta keeping and my mother constantly reminds me of how when I was younger we had a betta in a tank with no heater and he lived for two years. After doing lots of research, mainly just reading threads here, I've become much more knowledgable about betta keeping than I was when I was a kid. The best way I've found to handle the, 'well why do they need that? They come in tiny cups' type questions is to say 'ya know I thought the same thing until I did some research'. By relating to other peoples lack of betta knowledge, it seems to make them more desirable to understand what's actually correct care for bettas. Now my mom wants one of her own! She even was pricing heaters and decor the other day


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

This is why you move out and get a place of your own. It makes ignoring them a lot easier, and then you can just appreciate the good stuff. 

They will do whatever they are going to do, but at least you can get on with doing what you want without hearing a lot of guff about it.


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## Kaxen (Mar 3, 2013)

...Just keep stubbornly going at it?

My parents didn't believe me when I wanted to move my bettas to a 5.5gal. At first they just dug around the house for a 1gal jar. It was actually rescuing my cousin's neglected betta that ended up getting me the tank because I got my aunt and uncle to pay "fish support" I guess you can call it. xD 

But I got my dad really excited once I told him I could stock the betta tank with shrimp (hope my bettas don't have a taste for shrimp!). And he got really interested when I started talking about exotic guppies (we also have a guppy tank). Seemed like their main problem is that they like schooling and active fish rather than bettas than actually the tank itself because they kept saying it would be "boring."


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

As a person who works in a pet store (that sells fish), I can honestly tell your parents DO NOT trust the fish store people. You can tell them I am that girl at the fish store. I can honestly admit, the information I told people before coming here... I probably killed people's fish, in fact I know I must've. I told people they could put 4 females (betta) in a 2.5 g tank. I recommended Betta Fix. I told people to way overfeed their fish. I told people they did not need a heater. I thought I was well trained, by our resident "betta expert". I thought I was sharing great wisdom. But, I was not, and I know now I was not. 

I grew up with bettas as well. They always lived in bowls that were unheated and fed flakes (that were not always betta specific). My fish usually lived a long while, but I realize now what I put them through. That is why I fight so hard to give the ones I have now a great life. In memory of my mistakes. 

I also live at home. I'm a graduate student and it's just cheaper and well... I like having someone always make sure there is food in the fridge and my laundry is done. My boyfriend and me are looking at houses though right now. I will be 30 in a few years, so I figure I should probably start "growing up", but I don't wanna. I am excited about having more room to rescue fish though. I am going to set up a sanctuary.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Like I said, the 'fish guy' is always right...until the advice is inconvenient, then " it'll probably be okay" I'm probably making them sound like horrible people... They're really not, they're just busy, and they don't always understand why I feel the way I do about animals. They're both from "animals belong outside" families, and I don't think they really even count fish as pets. 
Luckily my local petsmart fish girl is pretty knowledgeable about bettas. It's the LFS that gives bad info. 

I feel you on the not wanting to move out thing; granted, I do my own laundry and cook most of the food, but living rent free is nice, and I'm also in school (I don't blame you at all, graduate programs are hard enough without having to worry about money stuff. I'm just an undergrad and it's hard enough without worrying about money stuff) I would kill to get a job that let me keep going to school and let me afford an apartment too, I'm hitting that point where I really need more space than I can get here, and I'd love to get a bigger community tank or even a saltwater tank, it's just not in the cards right now.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Esahc said:


> I live at home because hey, free food and no rent,....................
> 
> My parents have this problem where everyone on earth is more credible than I am.


 hmmm, I wonder why? :roll:




Esahc said:


> So, what do you do to avoid fish abuse when your family decides fish, bettas especialy, are a maintenance-free pet?


Get your own life.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

That was really rude ru.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I think this must be Little Leaf who has transported herself into the future 10 years and her parents STILL won't wise up about fish! :lol:


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

MattsBettas said:


> That was really rude ru.


You may report me if you wish, just don't PM, m'kay?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it. You aren't helping the op, just posting extremely rude and snarky comments. Please either post a polite and civil response (remember the bettafish.com rules?) or don't post at all. Reported.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Hmm registered user wake up on the wrong side of the bed? 

Not going to report you but that was rude and uncalled for imo.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

registereduser said:


> hmmm, I wonder why? :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> Get your own life.


My living arrangement has absolutely no bearing on how quickly I can reprogram a computer or how well I can research pet care, thanks. There's no shame in minimizing my student debt.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

But you understand that this is why your parents don't give a hoot about your fish advice? If I were you I wouldn't speak unless asked about the koi pond, they might get worse.

Blunt is not rude, people.


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## SunnyBettaGirl (Feb 11, 2013)

I think it's okay to live at home. Just not okay if you sit in front of your computer all day...every day...24/7, 365


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

RU. You are being blunt and rude. So let me be blunt..your being an idiot today. Just blunt right.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

I can see where you're coming from, the whole "lives at home and therefore a child thing." It's something I've had issues with before, and still do. But this is a separate issue and a particularly irritating one. It's this idea that the whole Internet isn't a credible source, that the store employees are infallible, and that any stranger off the street is a more reliable source that the person you trust to cook your food and clean your house and fix your ridiculously old computers. Take a step back and forget I'm their daughter for a second, there is no _logic_ to this line of thought. 

There is blunt, and there is antagonistic. Honesty, you need to try harder if you're trying to start something.

But that's not the point of this thread. I was just interested in other people's trials and tribulations when parents/aunts/uncles unintentionally abuse their fish.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

:I ru, i live at home. rent and job free. and my mother listens to my pet advice. heck, i prompted her to do her own research on the bearded dragon my sister's fiance bought, that we're going to lizard sit while she finishes her military duty in two years.

so, living at home, rent free is NOT the reason OP's parents won't listen to her.

if anything, it's because they're stubborn older people, stuck in their ways, convinced the pet store people are giving proper advice because they sell them.

which we know isn't true.

OP, why don't you try pullling up a care sheet or breeder's page, and calling your parents over. "hey, Mom. Dad. check this out. this website says they need this..." then pull up another. "Oh, this one says the same thing!"

that's what got Ma to talk sister's fiance into getting Spazz something other than the sand for his tank. so many websites said not to use it, so it must be bad, right? :V


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## SunshineSulie (Mar 16, 2013)

What are your parents passionate about? Admit that you know absolutely nothing in comparison to what they know. Then say the same about your passion for bettas. 

Passion leads to knowledge, and if someone doesn't care, they won't learn unless they have a reason to care. You'll be the reason to care. Just point it out that way. Worked with my mom.

I have a similar situation (college student, live in dorms, go home sometimes, leaving for Alaska for 5 months, training my mom to care for Sunshine, my betta girl).


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## percyfyshshelley (Feb 26, 2013)

Esahc, nothing wrong with living at home while you're a student, IMO, not that that was what you were even asking about lol. It was never for me, but I do have a ridiculously large student debt now. lol.
Anyway, to your original question... I don't have a good solution for you... That's the way they are and it's hard to change people. Maybe others have better ideas than I do. But it's hard to change people's minds. I mean, I work at a job where people pay to get my professional advice, and many still don't take it! I try to explain the reasons why I am giving certainr recommendations; that is, my advice is based on facts, and not just something I'm making up out of the blue. Sigh. So good luck to you and certainly do what you can to prevent outright abuse, and try not to get too frustrated.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Wow I am 23 live at home, pay no rent, pay no bills _and_ mum currently helps support my hobby and she still respects my opinion and is willing to admit on certain matters that I know more than she does. The fact that you still live with your parents should have no bearing on the respect with which you are treated. 

Unfortunately, pet and fish store employees seem to become elevated to Godlike figures by a lot of members of the public. I don't understand why, but there are so many people out there who are much more inclined to listen to whatever is spouted by ignorant employees, than they are to individuals who have spent years in the hobby. 

You even see it on this forum when new members post some horror story and their only defence is "but the man at the fish store said it was okay". 

It is really hard to change the mindset of these people. Sometimes I try to convince people by saying that no one really explicitly trusts the word of a used car salesman. You know he is just going to try and make a sale and will say whatever it takes to convince you, even if he does have to stretch the truth a little. 

A fish store employee is exactly the same. There _are_ good ones out there, but most either push for sales or truly know very little about the livestock and products they are selling. 

I have found with some people, unless they waste an embarrassingly large amount of money based on what the 'fish store person' said, they will never believe that any mere hobbyist could possibly know more than someone who is employed at a fish store.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Fish store employees are like tech support and teachers. The good ones are the ones with a passion for the jobs, who truly care about the work. The same way I'd rather lose a sale than have an angry mother come back, or a kid left with a bad experience (I'm a theme park face painter, kinda stupid, I know but it's fun, and the hours work with my classes.), there are fish people who care to do the research on their own. And then there are the ones who it's just a job, and they're only there for money, which is a valid outlook to have, to be sure, but it's irresponsible when there are living things counting on you knowing what you're doing. 
In that respect I can kind of understand how pet store employees get elevated to this 'godlike' state of omniscience, because the general public trusts the company to hire people who give correct information, because there are lives at stake; however insignificant some people may feel they are. The stores advertise experts, and there's a trust between store and customer to supply what they advertise. 

If they do decide to go through with the pond, I'll have a bit of leeway in the supplies they buy. I suppose I could start with pointing out the big issues we had with my old tank and the pond at the rental( the filter was wrong and the fish occasionally got pulled through it. Most of them actually survived...). My dad's strange though, he gets stupid in love with his pets, he doted on those pond fish and loves our cats to death, but he has these bizarre arbitrary guidelines on what he'll do for them. Usually it's a time and/or money constraint.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

When I was younger and the internet wasn't as widely used, I was lied to by what I believe was the owner of a fish store. She convinced me and my mum to spend all my birthday money on a pair of seahorses, which she assured us were 'easy care' pets. 

Well they died about a week later and I felt so terrible I didn't pick up the hobby for over a decade.

I learned from that to never trust the word of a salesperson, even if they sound like they know what they are talking about. I always now do my research before and after visiting a store. 

It's kind of sad that there are many stores that operate out there where the welfare of animals is put below the importance of a sale. 

It's even sadder still when the employee is in fact a very knowledgeable person, but they are supposed to stand there and forget everything they know because their boss or manager wants them to flog a certain product. 

My dad sounds similar to yours on bizarre guidelines for animal care. Sometimes it's enough to make me want to pull my hair out.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

I think part of the problem is we've, as a family let ourselves let him take on a lot of the work. I do cook a lot and clean some, but even though my brother is 14 and certainly strong enough to do yard work, it's my dad that does the majority of it. He was actually angry that I bought Altair, because he assumes that he'd end up taking care of it. (Admittedly, that's what happened with the cats; in my defense I was 11 and lazy. ) it seems like in the breakdown of priorities, he goes "well the lawn won't mow itself, the dishes won't do themselves, but if the cats are outdoors the litter box will CLEAN itself." We're all guilty of it, and I'll be the first to admit that all of us fall prey to the "I am nerd I know all the things" attitude. So they're hard to reason with.

There is a small, tentative, slightly scary hope. My mom noticed the plants left over from setting up Altair's new tank, and suggested I set up the old one for my brother. I need to talk with her and see if she was serious, and see if its something my brother even wants, but it might give me an opening to establishing myself as knowledgeable.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Maybe you can get a job at the fish store, then you will BE the person at the fish store who gives the advice they listen to. Plus you can start paying a bill and that will REALLY make them listen. ;-)


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Wow. I don't see anything wrong with living at home (rent free), and I don't think that means a person needs to refrain from offering advice to their parents. I am 27 years old, and I live at home. It's not for a lack of motivation or work ethic. I have a MBA from a well respected university, I'm working on a MS and PhD at another university, I teach at a community college, I work at a pet store part time, and I care for my grandparents (that's the home I live in and grew up in) large horse farm (basically a farm manager, without the $$$). They listen to me, and respect my advice. Now, I will admit they are not happy about the 3 fish and 3 guinea pigs I have in my room. But, they respect my room and the fact that I do their daily care and pay their bills (including crazy high vet bills on my pigs).


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

registereduser said:


> Maybe you can get a job at the fish store, then you will BE the person at the fish store who gives the advice they listen to. Plus you can start paying a bill and that will REALLY make them listen. ;-)


I've got a job, dude. It's a lot harder than people think it is, but I love it despite the low pay. On it I can just about pay for our Netflix account and my lunches through the off-season with a little put away into an emergency fund. I'd love to get something with some more regular hours and better pay, and air conditioning, like a retail job or a pet store job, but school comes first and my class schedule makes me all but unhireable. I'm under contract to finish out each season, so essentially I'm stuck where I am until Christmas unless I want to leave on poor terms. I respect my bosses and coworkers too much to do that. 

Wow neptunesmom... I hope you don't mind me saying you're a little bit crazy, taking all that on. If I may ask what classes you teach? Speaking of thankless, underpaid jobs...
Kudos to you though, I have enough trouble with just working on my BFA and the one job...I can't imagine having to do all that.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm a 22-year-old student living at home, who is also a facepainter. It pays 1.5x better than my retail job, and it is much more fun. 

How did I get my parents to listen? Persistence. I got told off for nagging, for being boring, but in the end, you can't argue with water test kit readings, hundreds of hours of research and healthy, long-lived fish.
What's the motivation of the petshop? To make money. What's our motivation? To keep fish healthy.


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## NeptunesMom (May 4, 2012)

Esahc said:


> Wow neptunesmom... I hope you don't mind me saying you're a little bit crazy, taking all that on. If I may ask what classes you teach? Speaking of thankless, underpaid jobs...
> Kudos to you though, I have enough trouble with just working on my BFA and the one job...I can't imagine having to do all that.


I teach Introduction to Sociology at a community college about an hour away, and I have a teaching assistantship at my university in the Women's and Gender Studies program independently teaching an online Intro course. It is a lot of hard work to teach 2 classes, take 3 grad classes, and work weekends at a pet store. You do what you have to do to pay for the things you need. I will say, as an undergrad I could never hold down a job and attend school. I like to think it was a wisdom/time management thing as I got older, but to be honest in grad school full time is only 9 credits, so it makes it easier when you only spend 9 hours (as opposed to 12, 15, 17 or more) a week in classes. The workload is about the same as an upper level undergrad course (maybe an extra presentation or paper). It's just the quality is expected to be higher, which is not that difficult after figuring it out your first or second semester. I'm on my 4th year of full time grad school (I went straight from my MBA to a MS in Sociology, now working on PhD courses but still categorized as a MS until I defend my research) so I have a pretty good flow now. 

As an undergrad, the best job I had was tutoring. It was flexible and you can make some good $$$ (even more if you did it independently and set your price). You just have to be good at a foreign language, math, English or natural sciences to make a lot. I tutored social sciences, which never makes as much, but there are still people who need help. My most was tutoring like 5 people 2x a week at $9 each session.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Bombalurina said:


> I'm a 22-year-old student living at home, who is also a facepainter. It pays 1.5x better than my retail job, and it is much more fun.


Fellow facepainter! I imagine your summers are even worse than ours ;~;

I think if I can convince my brother he wants a fish, I might have an opening to do just that. He's ambivalent about it, though. At least he's up front and honest with himself that he's not willing to do the work...

Edit:
I had thought about tutoring, I'm semi decent at basic math up to about mid level high school, but I'm not so great with the extended social interaction thing...my mom keeps trying to get me to apply as a paraprofessional sub for her school district but, no. I remember exactly how I was as a kid. No way they pay me enough to deal with that.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would appreciate it if you guys would quit the name calling and judging people who live with their parents. There are lots of reasons adult children live with their parents and it's no bone's business but theirs.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

Perhaps you could locate a book or sheet written by professionals or perhaps a betta breeders association releases a care booklet?

Don't give them just one though, make a stack from as many places as you can find, the problem with people set in their ways is that they can ignore just one or two differing opinions, they will dismiss three or four. But entire piles? In fact you could do some well meaning subterfuge and give some of those pamphlets to your local fish store. The more people that echo you the faster they will listen and the happier will be the fish on sale.


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## Snoeflayke (Mar 3, 2013)

I am a 25 year old Licensed Vet Tech, living at home. My job is a mile and a half from my house, and until I can find something that keeps me almost as close, I'll be staying at home.

To be fair, thanks to my education, my family doesn't question my animal knowledge.:lol: I do, however, have a current ban on getting any new tanks... (I also have a 10g still in the box, waiting to be cycled...)

My big issue is that I still look like a teenager, and that makes it very hard to be taken seriously at work. When that happens, I just put on my no-nonsense face, which I've gotten very good at, and things go a little more smoothly...

It's amazing how many people on here are so close in age, that I didn't even realize!


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## Minnieservis (Mar 12, 2013)

Well I'm almost 25, engaged, a mom, and have my own home, but I'm pretty sure none of that matters considering most parents still think they know best over their child regardless of age or where they live. Just sayin.


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## 5150wicd4fish (Oct 28, 2012)

Speaking of a book..I subscript to Tropical Fish magazine and the May issue 2013, was the first time I saw an question from a fishkeeper asking what the best option for betta care was and answer given with explaination was a 5 gallon tank would be the minimum suitable size with heater AND filtration.
I agree find articles you can show..knowledge is power

Good luck to you, all the best! Meme


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

I am 22 disabled and jobless. That's why I live with my parents


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

All 3 of my adult children live at home right now. They are not proud of it thats for sure. I guess it carries a stigma for them. We cant help much with the cost of University tuition, buy them cars or help with a down payment on a house. We can however give them a cheap place to live while they get established. It makes me feel good that I can help and saves them big $$ in a city with a high cost of living. It helps that I like them and we are good friends not just parents. It wont be like this for long they will move out and move on just trying to enjoy the now.


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

I want to apologize if anything I said made anyone feel judged about their circumstances, choices, or situation. Obviously, there are a LOT of excellent reasons to live at home. 

The OP asked for opinions, and I just shot out my off the cuff response without thinking very deeply about it. Thank all of you for reminding me that thinking is necessary.


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## AkaRyu (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm 20, almost 21 and living out on my own. I couldn't stand living with either of my parents (they're divorced) and it gives me depression, so I'd rather be spending 1200 a month for my own happiness and sanity. But to each their own.

Back on the thread topic though, sometimes I'll hang out at the local petsmart in the betta section while my boyfriend looks at the cats, and sometimes i'll help out anyone who's looking to buy a betta and hasn't before. I think i've saved several fishies ^^


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## bettacrazygirl86 (Jan 21, 2013)

My mom knows I know my stuff when it comes to fish, and even though I've insisted that my sister gets a heater and even offered up one of mine, she won't let her. She won't let her get a bigger tank either, even a simple KK.

She hasn't ever stopped ME from buying fish things. She even supports it and gives me money for some stuff, like plants, gravel, conditioner, meds. When I got my baby yesterday, I was a little afraid she would make me take him back. She didn't want me to get any more fish, and I knew that, but I couldn't leave him there. She was a little mad at first, but even she couldn't say no to his little face.


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## majesticstorm (Dec 8, 2012)

My parents are a bit iffy about me having fish. However, they don't question the things I do for them too much. If there's something they don't get (like moss balls, and why I bother to have a filter), they ask me and I explain it to them. They know that bettas are something that I'm passionate about and they believe that results are the most important thing. They might be skeptical about how I go about caring for my fish and about fish in general (for example, fish are stupid, they don't thing), but if they see that my fish are healthy, they can't complain. They now even think that bettas are intelligent since they see how Rain recognizes me. I'm also using the money I earned from dog-sitting, so they can't complain about the cost, hahaha.


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