# Opinions on plant selection for first NPT?



## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Sorry if this is kinda repetitive from my last post, but as some of you know I am redoing a Evolve 4 and want to make it into a NPT. I am going to be using the organic soil and sand cap. I would like to try the stock light, and if needed I will upgrade the light. 

Here are the plants I am thinking of using. I would love to hear opinions and if you think the plants give enough of a balance btw stems/floating/etc. Also is this way too much? I plan on taking all the other decorations out and only having plants. 

1- Anubias
1- Echinodrous "Green Ozelot"
1- Camboda Green
1- Banana Plant
1- Java Fern
6- Little clumps of Salvinia

Also, what would you suggest for stocking? Just one Betta?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sounds like a good set up to me! I would even suggest some floating water sprite, grow very fast, easy to maintain and my bettas love to sleep in their pieces. And yes, I think one Betta would be lovely for this set up, perhaps some cherry shrimp as well if the Betta will accommodation them. I would also suggest maybe a small piece of driftwood or mopani wood in there as well!


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Monapi wood was the one thing I forgot at Petsmart earlier! LOL! I realized as soon as I got home and my son had had it with errands already! I have Monapi wood in my Spec V and love it! Maybe later I will head back out. I will look into the water sprite too  Thank you!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No problem!


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Rilly10 said:


> Sorry if this is kinda repetitive from my last post, but as some of you know I am redoing a Evolve 4 and want to make it into a NPT. I am going to be using the organic soil and sand cap. I would like to try the stock light, and if needed I will upgrade the light.
> 
> Here are the plants I am thinking of using. I would love to hear opinions and if you think the plants give enough of a balance btw stems/floating/etc. Also is this way too much? I plan on taking all the other decorations out and only having plants.
> 
> ...


I'm about to start setting up my own Evolve 4 that I got a couple of weeks ago when I saw the great clearance price at Petco lol. I'm still trying to decide which plants are going to go in it, although they'll definitely be ones that fall in the "low tech" category since I'd also like to use the stock light if possible. From various reviews and threads by other owners of the Evolve 4 I've found on the planted tank forum, it really is fine for low light plants, so thats reassuring at least lol. I know that I definitely want black substrate--I'd really like to try Eco-Complete (which also just happens to be black lol), but since funds are pretty limited right now, I'll probably end up using organic potting soil hidden underneath a layer of black aquarium sand. I also *really* want some sort of carpet plant for the foreground (obvs), since thats something I haven't tried yet in my planted tanks, but the lighting thing is definitely going to limit my options. 

But about YOUR tank lol--those plant choices all look good imo. As far as the "1" in front of the first 5 choices, are you referring to like, one rooted/potted plant (with the ozelot, anubias, and I guess cabomba--I've really only seen it sold in stem bunches, but that definitely doesn't mean they're not available potted lol). Java ferns are often available at petco/petsmart pre-attached/growing on pieces of driftwood, and then in those pre-packaged tubes containing plants (thats actually where my "windelov" variety java fern came from), and then at the LPS where I get the majority of my plants they have a tank full of java moss and java fern all mixed together thats just sold by the handful. The driftwood is definitely a good idea since you're getting java fern--they have rhizomes and since that actually has to be left above substrate level, you're going to want to have them attached to something. A piece of driftwood with at least a few pieces of java fern tied to it would look awesome. And thats definitely not too many plants, especially if you were planning to do only "one" of each. 

I'm guessing in the 3rd one you mean cabomba, right? I did want to mention, just in case you weren't aware, that both require at least medium light, the cabomba will definitely need more than what the stock lighting provides, and I'm pretty sure the ocelot will as well, although I'm not very familiar with that particular type of sword. I do have an amazon sword though (its super small because all the leaves died when it was transitioning to a new tank--usually happens with all the sword species actually, although you start seeing new growth almost immediately, but mine is growing back super slow, but thats my fault since they're heavy root feeders and its in a tank with just plain sand substrate--I really need to get some root tabs for it). It might be worth considering going with an amazon sword instead since they're pretty much the only Echinodorus species that does ok under low light conditions. I'd def go with just one each of the ozelot and banana plant. And like I mentioned above, if you're getting a piece of driftwood already, it would really make sense to attach the java fern to it, but it really looks best when theres at least a few "bunches" attached in different spots on the driftwood, plus its very unlikely that you'd purchase it in any form where it was only "one" plant. The anubias you could do definitely do two, but depending on the species you choose and its size, just one would look fine also. Personally, I might rethink the cabomba--along with its pretty high light requirements, it also utilizes very high amounts of ferts, I think it really tends to thrive best in high-tech tank setups with C02 and all that. Bacopa carolina is one I'd highly recommend if you're wanting a stemmed plant to go towards the back--it does fine in low light and is quite hardy as well as attractive. I have some in all my tanks actually lol. Spiral val (Vallisneria spiralis) is another great background plant, grows very well in low-moderate light--even in low light tanks growth is noticeably fairly quick. The awesome thing though is that you can just cut them to any length desired without damaging them at all, so while they *can* get super tall, they can also make great background plants even in small tanks-you just trim them every so often. I only have a pretty small bunch of this growing in the back of my 5g hex right now but definitely plan on getting more for that tank and very likely future ones as well. I can think of quite a few really lol, so if you're interested I'd be more than happy to share more suggestions. Oh, and salvinia is probably my favorite floating plant <3. 

I agreewith lilnaugrim's suggestion of cherry shrimp as well :-D


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I would suggest more stems for a NPT ^_^
cant wait to see pics!


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Wow thanks so much! That really helps a lot! So other than Bacopa carolina what other stems would do well in low light? That is the part I am really struggling with! And by "1" I mean one clump of each  I have a piece of Monapi wood boiling now to attach the Anubias and Java Fern to! 

So tonight I got the soil and sand in, plus the water....what a mess! LOL! I hope the cloudiness settles down soon. I plan on doing a ton of water changes to "clean it up" and also to try to battle the ammonia spike I hear comes after soil. Since my tap water tests at a 0.5ppm if the ammonia does spike I am wondering if I should do some water changes with bottled water, or if Prime will be enough to keep it semi under control?


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Rilly10 said:


> Wow thanks so much! That really helps a lot! So other than Bacopa carolina what other stems would do well in low light? That is the part I am really struggling with! And by "1" I mean one clump of each  I have a piece of Monapi wood boiling now to attach the Anubias and Java Fern to!
> 
> So tonight I got the soil and sand in, plus the water....what a mess! LOL! I hope the cloudiness settles down soon. I plan on doing a ton of water changes to "clean it up" and also to try to battle the ammonia spike I hear comes after soil. Since my tap water tests at a 0.5ppm if the ammonia does spike I am wondering if I should do some water changes with bottled water, or if Prime will be enough to keep it semi under control?


Heres a link to a really good and comprehensive list of low-light plants: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56042 (the list is added to and seperated into sections as the thread progresses) and I HIGHLY recommend checking out at least that "low tech" section of the forum as well as the "nano tank" section. Its really an awesome resource for info as well as getting ideas/inspiration, I particularly love the pic thread in the low tech section since there are so many amazing tanks that show you really don't need all the high tech, expensive, and often complicated equipment in order to have a truly gorgeous planted tank. As far as the plants on that list, I obviously only have experience with some of them, but I'll point out some of the stemmed ones I think its worth really looking into: Moneywort--Bacapa monnieri (the stems can be planted in the sub or floated), Red Ludwigia--Ludwigia repens, Water Wisteria--Hygrophila difformis, Watersprite--Ceratopteris thalictroides (can also be floated), Anacharis--Egeria densa, (can be floated) Green Hygro--Hygrophila polysperma (got a large bunch of this fairly recently and *love* it, super easy and fast grower--which means it helps with water quality even more too, and thought I'd mention that they do include Cabomba carolina on the list, but if you browse the entire thread you'll see that theres quite a bit of controversy regarding whether some of the plants on the list (specifically the ones added towards the end), really will do well under average low-light conditions, but the ones I just listed I do have personal experience with so feel pretty confident they'd work out well for you also.

Hmmm, I don't use Prime so I'm really not sure--does the label say anything about eliminating ammonia? The water conditioner I use, and have for quite a long time now, is the Kordon Amquel Plus Ammonia Detoxifier. It removes chlorines, chloramines, ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites as well as DOCs in the water.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks! I am going to order a few more stem plants from your suggestions! I am still trying to make my final decisions and order, but how many plants total do you think I can fit in here with a piece of Monapi wood before it gets too crowded? I am just scared I will over shop and then not be able to fit it all! LOL! I am still working on adding a few more plants to my Fluval Spec V so if some don't fit, they can go there, but not too many! 

So I also decided I am not happy with the look of the sand  I really want to switch it out for an all black substrate look like I have in my Spec V. What could I use as a cap? Black Sand? I have Fluval Shrimp Stratum in my Spec V, so I will need to add ferts to that one, I do have an extra bag of it too....if I go with that and just use a fertilizer when needed could I go that route and still have the same effect?


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Rilly10 said:


> Thanks! I am going to order a few more stem plants from your suggestions! I am still trying to make my final decisions and order, but how many plants total do you think I can fit in here with a piece of Monapi wood before it gets too crowded? I am just scared I will over shop and then not be able to fit it all! LOL! I am still working on adding a few more plants to my Fluval Spec V so if some don't fit, they can go there, but not too many!
> 
> So I also decided I am not happy with the look of the sand  I really want to switch it out for an all black substrate look like I have in my Spec V. What could I use as a cap? Black Sand? I have Fluval Shrimp Stratum in my Spec V, so I will need to add ferts to that one, I do have an extra bag of it too....if I go with that and just use a fertilizer when needed could I go that route and still have the same effect?


Depends on how big the piece of Mopani wood is and how its placed in the tank . Honestly, its pretty difficult to truly over-plant a tank, at least as long as you're using plants of various height, don't have large-leaved plants that block light from ones below them that need it, being consistent with using a good liquid fertilizer in sufficient amounts, and trimming/removing plantlets if and when needed. Out of your original list, only the ozelot sword, cabomba, and banana plant will actually be on/planted in the substrate--thats not much at all, even considering the limited floor space in the Evolve 4. The stem plants are basically going to be your background, and how many will also kinda depend on which ones you choose. Which stems do you have in mind right now and what number were you thinking? The sword is a good mid-ground plant, but unless you want to try some sort of carpet or short grass , personally I'd place it more towards the front. Although I have some other vague ideas, I think thats good to start with. While it can sometimes be a pain, adding more plants later or even switching one for something different isn't a huge deal.

I *love* black substrate too lol. Eco-complete would be perfect, but since you already have the organic potting soil, it would be a bit redundant, not to mention the price. Black sand as a cap would work just fine though, I'm actually considering setting up mine with the organic miracle gro capped with black aquarium sand. I still suggest adding root tabs for the sword, even with the soil. As far as the Fluval Shrimp Stratum, what is it exactly, like composition-wise. If it really doesnt already contain any ferts, then using that along with some root tabs buried in it would definitely work.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

I am sooo indecisive with this tank. Now I am thinking of making it a shrimp only tank, or upgrading to the Evolve 8 instead. I am thinking with my water issues, a bigger tank may be easier to keep stable. 

The Shrimp Stratum doesn't have any ferts in it. So either way I will have to amend it with something. I am just feeling really defeated and not sure what to do LOL!


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Well I broke it all down and started over. I have the Shrimp Stratum as the substrate, a piece of Monapi wood with a Java Fern "Windolev"and an Anubias attached. For a floater I have some Azolla and a Dwarf Water Lettuce. I also have a Banana Plant in there. I an waiting on an order for some stems. 

In my Spec V I already had an Anubias, Marimo ball, Salvinia, and a java fern. I added the Ozelot Sword to that tank, as well as some Azolla and DWL. Everything is super murky from stirring everything up and tannins, but once it settles down or I do a water change I will get some pics. 

Still not sure what I am gonna stock it with though. I am almost just thinking of some Yellow Neocardinia shrimp once it is cycled. I added some water from my other tank (and a piece of Monapi wood) so hoping that will help the cycle along.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I love the yellow neocardinia shrimp! I've never had them but I really really want them along with the orange variation! Unfortunately since all my tanks have Betta's in them...I'm not sure how my girls would react to shrimp in there lol

Oh and adding water from another tank won't do much since very very little of the beneficial bacteria is free swimming if at all. The only thing that would help it along is ornaments/gravel/plants/filter media or whole filter from an established tank because it's usually coated with the bacteria giving it that slimy feeling.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Gotcha thanks! I added the Monapi from the other tank too....maybe I will switch a few more things too.  

I LOVE the orange "Pumpkin" Neos also! I think I may try some Red Cherries with my Betta in the Spec V...He had a ghost shrimp in with him and never bothered it even when it would swim into his face LOL! I deff wouldn't try the Yellows though B/C they can't camouflage at all


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you give them enough hiding spaces though, they are usually too fast for your betta's and the bettas will get bored after a while.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

That is true! We will see! I have time to think about it anyways....I am too scared to try cycling with a fish in again. Gonna let this tank do it's thing for at least 2-3 weeks if not more like a month. 

One other thing I was thinking instead of the Cherries was what about one Dwarf Orange Crawfish with my Betta in the Spec V? Not sure if they need more room though?


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Ok well here it is so far...I hate it LOL! I deff want to add a stem to the back btw the Anubias. I was also thinking of adding moss to the wood? I want to get some Marimos for up front on the ground. I also noticed the Anubias on the right has it's roots covered...gotta move some substrate around. It is tied to a rock under there LOL!

Any suggestions? I donno why but everything I do I am not happy with :-(


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

And just for fun here is the Spec V. I still have 3 banana plants, a bronze crypt, and a smaller Ozelot sword division I can add to either plant (they are in a separate tank just in water), but want to make sure I have the room for a stem or two first.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh my anubias's always just go into the gravel and do fine rooting there. I really like the wood in the Spec V! 

In the other one, I would totally do a nice thick row of Dwarf Hairgrass up front and then some taller stem plants on the side like Cabomda or Hortwort and let them curl in towards the top and make a dense forest almost. And then yes, some marimos near the driftwood. I would definitely put some moss on that piece of wood, I've always like that look. It would look like a mini meadow going into a forest, into a dark wood lol Sorry for me and my brain XD


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## Rilly10 (Apr 1, 2013)

Ok thanks! That helps a lot! For the moss on the wood....should I go with Java Moss? Or is there another that would work like the Taiwan Moss or X-Mas Moss? Should I use thread again? 

I really want some red plants for the Spec V....I think that would set off the Betta's colors! For the Dwarf Hairgrass, is that ok for low-med light? If needed I can always upgrade the lights, I just deff don't want to do CO2.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My DHG had grown fine in my 10 gallon without CO2, just liquid ferts but I also had LED lighting so I'm not entirely sure.

Any moss would grow on wood, I really like both Taiwan and Christmas moss. But my real favorite is Flame Moss! And yes they can all be tied on with thread, I actually used purple thread for one of them and silver thread for the other haha but it's all the same really.

For red plants you can do red wendtii crypt, rotala, broad leaf ludwigia (Ludwigia repens), purple cabomda (Cabomba pulcherrima) is nice with high lighting, or red flame sword (Echinodorus sp.). Unfortunately to keep most red plants red, you need high lighting, same thing happens with any cabomda. If you keep it in a darker light it will be a very dark green but in high light it will turn bright green which is what it's supposed to be. Plants that will eventually be red, start off green and may stay that way in lower lighting.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

lilnaugrim said:


> My DHG had grown fine in my 10 gallon without CO2, just liquid ferts but I also had LED lighting so I'm not entirely sure.
> 
> Any moss would grow on wood, I really like both Taiwan and Christmas moss. But my real favorite is Flame Moss! And yes they can all be tied on with thread, I actually used purple thread for one of them and silver thread for the other haha but it's all the same really.
> 
> For red plants you can do red wendtii crypt, rotala, broad leaf ludwigia (Ludwigia repens), purple cabomda (Cabomba pulcherrima) is nice with high lighting, or red flame sword (Echinodorus sp.). Unfortunately to keep most red plants red, you need high lighting, same thing happens with any cabomda. If you keep it in a darker light it will be a very dark green but in high light it will turn bright green which is what it's supposed to be. Plants that will eventually be red, start off green and may stay that way in lower lighting.


I really want to have a nice little carpet in mine but I'm just still nervous about what the stock light can actually support. Its an LED but there aren't any specs on what strength. It would be easy enough for me to upgrade the lighting with a dome fixture and CFL bulb rigged up above the tank, I have extras of both laying around, but it won't look nearly as nice. I might just have to suck it up and accept I can't have it both ways right now, maybe eventually I can upgrade to a nicer LED for the tank. I'm considering trying some Marsilea hirsuta (dwarf four-leaf clover), worst case scenario would be that I end up moving it to another tank or it dies, neither of which would be new things for me . HC would be my top choice but I think the clover stands a better chance with my current lighting.

There are some great mosses available, so far I only have java moss thats yet to be attached to anything, so it just floats in clumps around the bottom of the tank which the ghost and cherry shrimp love at least lol. I think the mini Christmas moss is pretty adorable, but recently saw Anchor moss for sale on one of the sites I like for aquatic plants and it looks a lot like Christmas moss, but apparently grows much more quickly and densely which sounds awesome.

And yeah, red plants are tricky in low-moderate light tanks, or at least keeping them red definitely is. Certain ferts can help to a degree, but most really need the extra light. I really do want to find something that will add at least a little color to my tanks though too, so have been looking at the different options quite a bit. I have at least 2 of the plants already mentioned that actually did have a lot of red when purchased, but are now green, which I was prepared for but was still sad lol. 

I re-did my 5g hex yesterday and can't decide if I like it any better than how it was before lol. I did attach quite a few pieces of java fern to the pieces of driftwood I used for the hardscaping (with just plain brown cotton thread though ). Java fern at least is something that I have an abundance since it can literally survive anything--even if the leaves die the rhizomes remain viable and happily regenerate. All my java fern "windelov" are actually from the original ones I purchased in one of the small tubes at Petco as my very first aquatic plant starting out, so that was kinda neat. It definitely needs more background plants and I think at least one other type of moss besides java moss used creatively would help a lot, although that will have to wait until I have a little more disposable income to put towards more plants lol.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

My favorite moss is peacock moss. 
mini xmas moss grows very slowly, so if you have a big tank you mght want to opt for the fast growers.

I don't really like flame moss as I find it one of the harder ones to scape, but it is definitely a unique one to have.

the only carpets that really need CO2 is glosso, dwarf baby tears and elatine triandra. the other carpeting plants will survive in lowlight tanks but grow very slowly (or not grow at all), with the exception of dwarf sags...


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