# Betta fish fins loosing color



## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Hello All,

My name is Joe. I am a new bee to betta. I have a betta since a month. I only noticed today that the edge of his fins are discolored. I have him in 1 gallon bowl fish. I change 1/4th of water every alternate day. I feed him with chicken liver. I get an inch of it fresh every week. Freeze it and feed him 6 pieces of mustard's size only once a day. I put him to fast once a week. Is there something wrong with the water?. I use tap water coming from the underground. No chlorine in that unlike the municipality supplied water which is treated with chlorine.

Any and all advice would be a great help. I have attached its pics.

Thanks,
Joe


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## weaver72 (Jul 9, 2012)

He looks depressed you don't even have a plant for him LOL!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Joe,

Welcome to the forum! You have a very pretty fish!

The white on the edges of his fins is actually good! It indicates new growth.

If you notice that the edges are dark or discolored, or appear ragged, that would indicate a problem such as fin rot.

Since he's in a one gallon bowl, I would increase the water changes. You're doing a good job by changing the water every other day, but I recommend changing a greater percentage of it each time.

Can you add more water to his bowl? This will give him room to swim. Also, toxins such as ammonia build up quickly in small containers. The more water you give him, the better the water quality will be.

I have never heard of feeding Bettas chicken liver. So I won't comment on that. (My bettas get pellets that have fish ingredients.)

What's the temperature in your home? Bettas are tropical fish, and like warm water. About 26C-27C would be ideal for them. I don't live in a tropical region, so my tanks have heaters. But the climate near your home may be warm enough that you don't need a heater.

Bettas also like to have hiding places. Some people have live plants, others have silk ones. Some people add clean cups or terracotta pots, which they use to hide in. Plus, adding these things makes the tank itself more attractive to look at!

It sounds like your water comes from a well, so you aren't worried about chlorine. Do you know if there dissolved metals, such as iron, in the water? If so, you may still want to add some water conditioner to remove them.

Edited to add: Here's a picture of a bowl that has live plants in it. Something like this looks nice. The plants improve the water quality, and give the betta places to hide. You don't have to use live plants, but giving the fish places to hide usually reduces stress for the fish.


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> Welcome to the forum! You have a very pretty fish!
> 
> ...


 If the white edges indicate growth am happy for having kept him happy till time. 


I'll definitely increase the water change to 2litres. I added 1.25litres of water per you suggestion for more swim space. I'll fill the water close to the brim of the bowl with the lid available next week at the fish shop. Chicken live was suggested by my friend Martin who kept it for 3 years or so. The temperature of the water in the bowl is exactly 27C(I just got a thermometer from the pet store today  as I was worried of the water temperature). I'll add a plant to it next week or so. The pet store would have it available by that time. Certainly it does make the tank look more attractive like the one you've attached. The water I use is pumped by a submersible pump underground, so logically there wouldn't be any chlorine. Yet, I add de-chlorinator for safety. I am not sure about the dissolved metals. How do I find that? Is there anything more I could do to keep him happy? Is there a fish that would go well with him?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

It sounds like you're trying to give him a really good home! That's great! 

If you add a lid to the bowl, make sure there are at least 5 to 8 cm (2-3 inches) of air space. Bettas breathe air from the surface, so you need to leave some air between the water and lid, in order for them to breathe.

A water temp of 27C is perfect!

Since he is in a small bowl, I would not add another fish. If you want to make a community tank, with other fish, I recommend going to at least a 40L (10 gal) tank. Obviously, this is a whole different type of tank setup from what you have now! 

Bettas don't mind being alone. In nature, they are solitary fish, and like to have a large territory to themselves.

Don't worry about the dissolved metals. If you're adding water conditioner, it's not an issue. And most likely, you won't have a problem, since you're using underground water.

As long as the new growth on his fins is white, that's good. He looks good in the pictures that you posted. (I love his color!)

It sounds like you're giving him a good home. Keep us updated on him, and post some pictures when you add the new plant!


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Thank you for your responses LittleBlueFishlet. Yeah, I am trying my best to keep him happy and alive till the judgment day :-D . I know I am being greedy here.


I was going through a website which gave a list of compatible fishes to Betta. I do have a 10 gallon aquarium with a pair of 3 spot gourami, a male and female swordtail. I had two females but lost one couple of days back. The male female sword tail fish ratio suggested was 1:2-3. Got to get one more to add. And finally a single small marble angel. The angel lost its partner due to nipping and bully by the gouramis. The lone ranger is doing good, not sure for how long. The swords have their fins clamped. Do you know the reason? I have no plans of adding any more to this and in case I am to lose all of them, I intend to house the Betta in there with compatible companions. Here is the list in the site http://bettacare101.com/tankmates2/ What is your say?


I have increased the water level similar to the one in the picture you attached. The temperature is shooting up every passing day here. It is like being in an oven . Fortunately I live in the ground floor with two floors above me and my home is comparatively cooler. I am finding it a little difficult in matching the temperature of the water to change. The temperature in the bowl was around 28C. I had the change water close to the bowl for 24hours and when I added the water the temperature was 30C. After couple of hours it was around 29C. Would this harm the fish? I am just waiting for the cover and the plant at the fish shop. I'll post the picture once I am done with the complete thing. Also, what purpose does a drift wood serve? Is it just a eye catcher


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's quite a bit of fish for a 10 gallon!

Angels usually need taller tanks of 20 gallons or more I believe and the 3 spot gourami, most likely a blue gourami, also needs 20 gallons or more. All of those fish can get really big, gourami's especially will be aggrssive with each other.

So your swords are probably really stressed with that amount of fish in there, it's kind of like being stuck in a four foot by four foot room with three other bullies, not exactly fun.

But otherwise, yes your care looks great! I do not suggest putting the betta in there with those companions and here's why.
Gouramis and Betta's are kind of like cousins, they both have a labyrinth organ which allows them to breathe air. And they will fight with each other. Angels I believe like to nip things with long fins so that's not good either. The Betta will either harrass your swords (because of their longer fins and colors, bettas will go after anything with long tails and colors. But of course some betta's are extremely docile and in which case this can be done carefully but still not recommended) or your swords will go after the betta.

Increasing hiding spots like plants and little hide outs keeps stress down in most fish, Betta's especially like them when they are stressed. So I suggest getting some of those if you don't already have them 

And about the water change, as long as you acclimate him to the new water temp, so if you can float him in the warmer water for about 15 minutes he will be good. But if you just throw him in, it can kind of shock him. It's like being in a/c all the time and then when you go out on that hot summer day, it doesn't feel good lol

Driftwood is good for most fish (except cichlids) because it can reduce pH levels, but it doesn't just drop the levels like using the chemical pH Down (which I never recommend. Using chemicals like that can really hurt the fish) Betta's tend to like a lower pH level but will adapt to pretty much anything you put them in. Some of my betta girls live in 7.4-7.6 pH level while some of my boys are at a 6.5 range, but they are all happy.

Driftwood also makes the water softer I believe which can be good for certain fish, it also releases tannins which is what I think makes the water soft. But it can "stain" the water to make it darker like you would see in a river or something. Tetras especially like this as they come from a "black water" environment naturally. But there are ways to get rid of most tannins so that it's not leeching into your water if you don't want that Black water effect 

I think I got most of it ^^


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Thank you lilnaugrim for your reply.


I agree with you on the space requirement. You are right, the blue gouramis are aggressive against each other. One of it has its tail fin split. The angle is only an inch. He always stays aloof from the rest. I have never seen gouramis chase the sword as they are similar in size 2 and a quarter inch. The female sword is hefty to male and she is chasing him lol. I have always heard and read of the other way. The male stays still at the bottom and is the case with female occasionally. The gouramis are enjoying themselves though. While writing this I notice the swords idle at the bottom. It's very depressing to see them that way. I'll put in some hiding spots for reducing stress.


I wouldn't house the betta with these folks. Could you please re-read what I had written previously and answer. I'd love a definitive answer as against the website I listed.


I change one forth water(10liters) for the 10 gallon aquarium and 2liters for the one and a half gallon betta bowl every alternate day to make sure the water parameters is not an issue. The temperature in the bowl is 29C and it is 32C in aquarium.


On the water change, you are right if it is a full water change. What if it is a partial one like I perform every alternate day? The acclimated water temperature seems to be two degrees higher than the one in aquarium or bowl.


The drift wood isn't staining the water and good to know of its use. How are you having all you bettas? Housed them separately or ?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry, I tend to let my adhd get the better of me while reading and I skip all over the place so I thought I had read you were putting him in there with him but now I see you had mentioned if there was nothing else in the tank.

That angel will get to be about 6 inches long though, in such a confined space it will have stunted growth and eventually die. So either you can get rid of it or get a nice big tank to put it in 

As for that site, it all looks fine except probably none of them are good for a 10 gallon except one ADF or a snail or two. Most problems come in when you have to get more than just a few fish to keep it in a shoal. All cory cats need to be in a group, or shoal, to feel secure and happy. If their numbers are below 4 or 5 they can get very stressed which makes them open for disease.

So Cories, Otos, and white cloud minnows need to be in a group to be happy. Your 10 gallon won't be able to sustain a good group of either of these. Even when cycled it might not be very healthy for a group of 4 cories and a betta.

I don't suggest White Cloud Minnows in a 10 gallon either because they, like all other minnows, danios and tetras (the torpedo bodied ones) love to swim all around and if they don't have room to swim with an adequate size group, they will get stressed and possibly become nippy which would be unfortunate for your Betta.

However you could get shrimp, the only problem with shrimp is that sometimes the Betta can look at them like a nice expensive snack so you'll have to have LOTS of tiny hidey holes and plants for the shrimp to survive. But while some Betta's like them for snacks, others could care less.

For a partial water changes, yeah you can just pour the new water into the bowl, try to go slowly so that he doesn't blow all over the place but it should be fine if it's a couple of degrees off.

And all of my Betta's except my girls are in seperate tanks. My 10 gallon is split three ways and one Betta in each of them. Then my 5.5 all for Lord Mercury because he is an all-mighty lord and needs every inch he can get lol and then I have 2 3 gallons, one of them is housing two baby Betta's though, it's still split.

And my 9 girls are in my sorority tank which is 33 gallons and heavily planted. Females can be just as aggressive as males though so it's still a risk putting them together.


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

That's okay lilnaugrim and thank you for your reply.

Would a 10 gallon house a betta alone?. I told my wife we get a big one but she refused. She was right, as we live in a rented accommodation and the living room is too small for anything bigger than a 10 gallon. What in the world would fit in a 10 gallon. I don't want a lone ranger, say put in the betta just in case I lose all those present. *Other than Betta, could you please list 3 or 4 fishes all of the same kind or whatever for this 10G. How about only 5 tiger barbs? *I am a novice to keeping fish. I just started couple of months back and learned a lot. When I buy a new home for us God willing in days to come, I would love a 150 gallon planted community tank. I get mesmerized at the very sight of those lovely planted community tank at the pet shop. Hope my dream is fulfilled soon.

Goodness me how are you managing so many? I wanted only a single large tank for living room beautification besides the passion I had when young. I would also require your advice on a plant that I am about to set in the bowl. I don't quite know its name. The pet keeper told it is a very small plant which grows without the need of any fertilizer. I'll be going tomorrow to check on it and let you know when I have it.

I won't add any more to my 10G. The swords are very much stressed. The blue gouramis are doing cool. You know what, I had intended to add a single attractive looking fish from every different specie across the globe in my 10G, 6 in number though :lol:. After browsing through the Internet and from knowledgeable sources I found my thought more stupid than nothing ;-) 

Could it be a case of the fish trying to rest/sleep when its idling at the bottom of the tank? Why do angels require tall tanks? I bet the one I have would ever become an adult with him being alone and the stress affecting him.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Joe, 

All of my bettas live alone. Each is housed in a separate 12 L (3 gal) tank. So I don't have experience on how they do with other fish. I think that lilnaugrim answered some of your questions, but I suggest starting a thread in the Betta Fish Compatibility forum. There are a lot of people there with a lot of knowledge about what other fish work well with bettas, and their tank size and stocking requirements. Here's a link to that forum: http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=102


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol your idea for putting in one fish from each class is definitely a cool idea though! Have to admit that at least, but yeah I don't think it's really doable without having someone stressed and not feelin' very good 

There's a few things that could be happening with the swords but I'm not knowledgeable enough in them to really give advice so I think posting in the disease section would be good for that, getting some pictures will help too for those commenting.

Angels need taller tanks because their bodies grow more upwards than outwards, if that makes sense. They don't swim fast and don't really care to much for swimming the length of the tank but actually prefer more space above and below. I mean, yes they appreciate the length space but taller is best for them since their top fins and bottom fins are the ones that are going to get really big and the rest of him will get about 6 inches in length.

I'm sure I could identify your plant if you posted a picture  I'm pretty good at that stuff at least lol

And as for putting tiger barbs in there, I really don't know much outside of the Tetra/Anabantoid/Catfish range. So posting in the compatibility section like LittleBlueFishlet's suggested would be good 

As far as managing all my tanks, I have a sort of set schedule that looks a bit like this: Wednesday is small tank cleaning day only so anything under 10 gallons is cleaned with usually a 25% or 50% change. Then Friday or Saturday (depending on my life schedule) I do all tank cleanings, 33 is first with a 20% change and then to the 10, 5.5, 3 and the other 3 gallons are cleaned again. Once you get in the rhythm it goes pretty quickly, I only spend about maybe 4 hours tops on Saturday cleaning, and that's with delays and stuff


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> All of my bettas live alone. Each is housed in a separate 12 L (3 gal) tank. So I don't have experience on how they do with other fish. I think that lilnaugrim answered some of your questions, but I suggest starting a thread in the Betta Fish Compatibility forum. There are a lot of people there with a lot of knowledge about what other fish work well with bettas, and their tank size and stocking requirements. Here's a link to that forum: http://www.bettafish.com/forumdisplay.php?f=102


Thank you LBF. I just posted my question.


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Lol your idea for putting in one fish from each class is definitely a cool idea though! Have to admit that at least, but yeah I don't think it's really doable without having someone stressed and not feelin' very good
> 
> There's a few things that could be happening with the swords but I'm not knowledgeable enough in them to really give advice so I think posting in the disease section would be good for that, getting some pictures will help too for those commenting.
> 
> ...



You seem to have a very tight schedule. And yeah, when one gets into a rhythm it's a cake walk. The plant is Amazon Sword. I am yet to plant it. It hasn't arrived as yet at the fish store. I bought a bowl lid for $2 and boy, it was looking very ugly. I would be returning it tomorrow though there is no return/exchange policy.


The shop keeper told me that Amazon Sword doesn't require any fertilizer for it to grow. Is it true? What other plants thrive well without fertilizer? I am naive to planting in aquarium. Could you please help me with the set up?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ehhh, I disagree with that shop keeper. Amazon swords can get up to about a foot tall, however yes it is a great plant. And yes they can grow without fertilizers but it may die off. I would suggest returning it because of the size it can grow to and it is a heavy root feeder so without root tabs to feed it, it won't grow very well at all.

And no worries about not knowing much about plants and stuff, we all started out this way!

I would suggest you get some sort of Java Fern, there are few different types: regular, narrow leaf and windlov are the most common seen in pet shops. The regular one usually stays smaller and that one doesn't need much to grow, it also doesn't grow fast enough to take over your bow either. So that's a good plant, that's what I got for my 1 gallon way back when and my Betta loved it! Just make sure you don't plant it into the gravel if you get any. It survives well without any gravel/sand/dirt, which makes it a great plant for your bowl.

You could also get an Anubias Bateri, those are also sold at petco/petsmarts in the tubes, I still have mine from half a year ago and it's doing great!

For those plants I mentioned you won't really need to fertilize them, you could get API's LeafZone anyway though just because a little plant food every now and then is good for it and it only takes like a couple drops for the size tank you have 

For lids, well I'm sure this won't look too much better either, but you could use Saran wrap, pull it tight and tie it in the back of the bowl or the side you see less so it looks nice, or rubber band it. But of course you can only do that as long as you leave about an inch to two inches of air space for your Betta to breathe. You could also poke little holes in it for fresh air exchange  Hope that helps a bit ^^


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

You need to feed a more balanced diet than meat. It is good for a treat, then you need to do a major water change after it as it will drive ammonia and nitriate high quick. My fish get beef heart before water changes. I would get a quality pellet and use that as the staple and the meat as a treat before a major w/c.

Some fish just have that coloring in the fins. If there is marble up the genetic pike you can get this and it is ok. But you said nothing about water parameters. Get a good mater test kit and test your water regular, even after a water change. Ammonia. If you have ammonia at 1.0 and do a 50% w/c you still have .5 ammonia and it is toxic. need to know what your water is.

As a breeder I keep fish with no plants. It can be done if water quality is kept pristine. It is up to you. though a spring of something like hornwort can be attractive and look more "homey"


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Thank you lilnaugrim and Basement Bettas for you reply. I'll dwell on the plants and the companions for Betta sometime later. For now, I have a bigger thing to worry about.


I just came back from the church only to find my lovely Betta lose its fins. It is in the 1.5Gallon bowl. No other inmates. A drift wood and a thermometer in the bowl. The temperature is 29C. I am very very depressed :BIGsad:. I feel like crying . I don't know how this happened. I did a water change couple of days back. The bowl could hold around 6 liters. I added 3 liters of fresh water along with old water(2 liters). I have the picture attached of it. In the beginning of the post last week I had attached a photo of him then. Please please please help me out. I want him back the way he was before. Do I make a major water change, say 1:4, old:fresh or any other proportion that you may suggest.


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

I made a full water change. Kept the tap water to trickle into the bowl with a half a liter old water. I haven't fed him anything today which is the norm weekly. I feed him with chicken liver, 6 mustard seed size, which he munches merrily. Is it the drift wood that caused him something or what is it? Various talking over the net on this make me go crazy. My best bet is to wait for your folks to reply. One more thing, among all this he is doing well presently.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Joe,

Aw, poor guy. Do his fins just look shredded? Do you notice any dark, discolored or "smudged" edges on them?

If there are U-shaped chunks missing, but not dark/discolored edges, this usually indicates tail biting.

I'm going to assume it's tailbiting, unless you tell us that the edges are dark/discolored.... This could be due to lots of reasons. He may be a little warm. (With a water temperature of 29C, you definitely do NOT need a heater!) Or there might be something about his tank, the new driftwood, or his diet, that's bothering him.

So here's what I suggest....

Remove the driftwood for now. (Don't get rid of it. Just take it out of the tank for now.) There may be something in or on it that's bothering him.....

It sounds like you're keeping about 5 L of water in his bowl, so....
Fill a storage jug with water. Add conditioner. Let it sit out overnight so that the temperature is the same as the tank temperature.
Tomorrow (Monday) - Remove about 1 L of water from his bowl.... Add 1 L of new water. 
Wait at least 15 minutes. (More time is OK.) Remove about 1 L of water from his bowl.... Add 1 L of new water.
Repeat the above step two more times. (This will give you a total of 4 partial water changes today.)
 Refill the storage jug. Add conditioner, and let it sit.
 The day after tomorrow (Tuesday) - remove about 50% of water from his bowl. Add about 1-to1.5 L of new water. Wait 15 min. Add another 1-to1.5 L of the new water, so you're back to the original water level.
 Repeat the above step every other day (Thursday, Saturday, etc).
This process will remove any toxins in the water. Also, clean water minimizes the risk of infection. So you want to keep doing frequent water changes until his fins heal.

Watch him carefully. As long as the fins remain the same blue color, it's OK. If you see white edges begin to develop, that's indicates new growth, which is good. If you see any dark, discolored or "smudged" edges, that may indicate an infection setting in. 

Keep us updated!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Looks like fin rot to me, see how the edges are black and greyish? That's a sign of rot.

You're going to need some Aquarium salt to help get rid of the rot. Since he's in a small tank you can leave him there to medicate him. What I do is 1 teaspoon of dissolved salt per gallon of water, so if you've got a 1.5 than 1.5 teaspoons of dissolved salt will do.

Everyday until that black goes away, you'll need to do a 100% water change to discourage any bacteria that might want to creep it's way onto your Betta. I'm sure there are other's who say 100% isn't necessary but I find it's the easiest to do since you'll be adding more salt in and sometimes it can be hard to judge how much water is left and all. So just 100% change every day.

Each day add in the salt after the water change (Don't just add it in without doing a water change because that can hurt him and won't help in the end.) until you see no more black on his fins, that means the rot has gone away.

After that you just need to keep him in warm, clean water. You can just do 50% change everyday or 100% every other since it is such a small tank. Adding in any StressCoat conditioner will help heal his fins since it has aloe in it.

If something doesn't make sense please ask and I'll try to explain it a little better, I hope he has quick healing!

*EDIT: Whoops same time posting with LBF, follow her advice first and see what comes of it!*


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

(@lilnaugrim - I'm hoping that he just tore his fins (maybe on the driftwood), and that it's not rot. But I'm going to wait to hear back from Joe before recommending anything more. If it's a fast moving rot, he may need to treat more aggressively. But hopefully, it's just torn, and using just lots of clean water will be sufficient.  )


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> (@lilnaugrim - I'm hoping that he just tore his fins (maybe on the driftwood), and that it's not rot. But I'm going to wait to hear back from Joe before recommending anything more. If it's a fast moving rot, he may need to treat more aggressively. But hopefully, it's just torn, and using just lots of clean water will be sufficient.  )


Yes I do hope so too! From the look of the pictures though, I could see the black but here's to hoping and praying!

(It's also why I edited my post haha, I'd rather he try your suggestion first anyway)


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Thank you lilnaugrim and LBF. The edges are dark/discolored and yeah smudgy. The attached present picture of his is hazy to make out anything. I am sorry.


LBF, do the steps you mentioned correspond to fin rot or tail biting? Which one of you do I follow? Could I use Sodium Salt, the one which is obtained by evaporating the sea water?. I don't want to ponder on how this got in. I just want to get him back to how he was before. One question to which I would love to hear YES is, would the tail grow back to how it was before. I have his picture attached when I started this thread.

I also have a thermometer stuck in there(a suction one). The drift wood doesn't have an abrasive surface for the Betta to have his fins torn. Not sure how it happened though. Presently, the bowl has only the betta and thermometer only. What next?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

1) How quickly did this come on? Was it literally overnight? 

2) Are antibiotics or medications available where you live? (They're available in some countries, but not others.)

3) What, specifically, is the salt that you have? For example, is it "evaporated sea salt," "sodium salt (iodized), "sodium salt (noniodized)," etc. 

4) Does the salt list ingredients? If so, what are they? (Additives aren't always safe.)

4) If the salt is evaporated sea salt, or pure non-iodized sodium chloride, with no other additives, then yes, you can use it. Do everything in my previous post, but change the procedure slightly to: 

*Fill a storage jug with 1 gallon of water. Add 1 teaspoon evaporated sea salt.* Add conditioner. Stir or shake until the salt is completely dissolved. Let it sit out overnight so that the temperature is the same as the tank temperature.
Tomorrow (Monday) - Remove about 1 L of water from his bowl.... Add 1 L of new water.
Wait at least 15 minutes. (More time is OK.) Remove about 1 L of water from his bowl.... Add 1 L of new water.
Repeat the above step two more times. (This will give you a total of 4 partial water changes today.)
*Refill the storage jug with 1 gallon of water. Add 1 teaspoon evaporated sea salt.* Add conditioner. Stir or shake until the salt is completely dissolved. Let it sit out overnight
*Repeat the above process every day for 10 days.*

If there is anything except either "evaporated sea salt" or "sodium chloride (non-iodized)" on the list of ingredients, it may not be safe to use. If this is the case, look for either something that's more pure, or ask the fish store for "aquarium salt."

The sodium in these products all cause fluid retention. So if he starts to become bloated, constipated, or has problems with his buoyancy, let us know. 

Also, you don't want to use this treatment for longer than about 10 days, since sodium causes stress on the kidneys.


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

This happened overnight. It was fine until Saturday night.
Antibiotics and Medicines might be available. I need to check at the store.
I have a non-iodized sodium salt with no additives.

Could I have half a liter of old water in the bowl and then top it with tap water by letting it drip from the tap. I did this yesterday and it took nearly 4-5 hours to fill the bowl. The reason is me and my wife set off to work and I usually come very late and my wife has her own affairs to attend to. I come mostly after 10.30PM and hence the question. By the way do I feed him all these days or put him to fast? Other than the chicken liver that I feed and the frozen tubifex worms, what additional healthy food could I give him to rejuvenate?

What could have caused this fin rot, to be careful the next time or always?.

By doing this would he have his fins back fully as it was before, if not in 10 days may be a month or two?


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Am doing the full water changes everyday. Feeding him once a day with the regular chicken liver. I tried to feed him tubifex worms, dried/frozen. He didn't eat. What other things could I feed him for a change. He munches on his regular one though. Today is the fifth day. He is normal, happily swimming and enjoying(by how he appears to me in the bowl ). How long would this fin rot take to recover?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm glad he seems to be doing well. 

How do his fins look? Has the rot stopped progressing? If the rot has stopped, eventually, you'll see new white/clear colored growth. 

I can't advise you on food, as I just feed my guys pellets. (Omega One Betta Buffet and New Life Spectrum... but I don't know if you can get them there.)

I'm glad he is active and happy!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You could try New Life Spectrum Betta Pellets, mostly because it has garlic in it and Betta's generally love that. So that's something you can try. I really don't advise the chicken liver all the time just because it's lacking in nutrients that the Betta's need.

It's kind of like if we ate Red Meat's all the time and nothing else...lol it's going to cause some problems, so if you get some sort of Pellet like the NLS or Omega one we've talked about, your Betta will be much healthier  I hope this helps some!


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

It's been two weeks exactly since I opened this thread. I have been doing everyday full water change. I haven't seen the re-growth(the white thing). Today morning I saw another little breakage. Worries me more  .

LBF, you had suggested a 10 day change. I did it for 14 days. What am I doing wrong? He isn't eating dried freezed tubifex worms. I haven't tried bloodworms and shrimp. He is living only on the chicken liver. He is swimming around happily and taking his feed as well.

I broke his housing this morning while performing the water change :-( . In his new home now, 7litres wide, tyre shaped bowl .


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Perhaps then it is just his regular color and he's marbling...although it is a strange change. Can we get any new pictures please?

Also yeah, you can stop using the salt now just make sure you acclimate him very well to the new fresh water. Also freeze-dried anything isn't very good either, you can feed as a treat every now and then but it can cause constipation issues and stuff of the like.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you find any mosquito larvae? That's their natural diet. I usually collect a few larvae from outside, add a little fresh water to rinse them, and feed them to my bettas.

Stop using the salt now, and if possible, could you post some new pictures?


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

LBF and lilnaugrim, here are his latest pics. Sorry for the delayed response. His new home is wide with lots of swim room. It holds 7 liters of water. The water change I have been performing is 100% every alternate day. Hope this is fine.

lilnaugrim, could you please help me with starting a planted aquarium. I have a 10G tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh yay he's looking so much better! I'm really glad that his fins are growing back now! It will take some time but it's worth it to help them heal up :-D

And I can certainly help you! Are you looking to do a NPT (natural planted tank) that would be done with some sort of soil for the base and a sand layer over top, that gives the plants plenty of nutrients or just a regular planted tank, gravel or sand with plants?

If you can PM me with what kind of lights you can and their Kelvin rating that would be good too ^_^


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Happy for him .

I never knew there were two kinds, an NPT and a regular one. Confused. Which is easier to maintain and what is the difference between the two? Let me google in the interim while you reply. I have a 20Watts helical *compact fluorescent lamp* (CFL). I am not sure of its Kelvin rating. I did a google and it didn't quite give the result. For my 10G currently I have provision for two bulbs. I have only one now and left the other open for the right fix for the planted tank.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

A NPT may or may not be harder/easier to maintain. When you start off generally you need more water changes but once it's fully establish you don't have to do them as often. Also you wouldn't have to do any liquid fertilizer because the plants would get their nutrients from the soil underneath the sand. Every now and then you'll have to churn the sand a little, I do a forth of my 33 gallon each time I do a water change, gasses can get trapped under it and they could become dangerous for your fish if suddenly released after not being churned. But you can do it with your finger, tweezers, chopsticks, anything really that's not dangerous for your water like a pencil lol

And a regular planted tank just has gravel or sand, and then you'd have to do some sort of liquid fertilizer and/or root tabs. Root tabs are nice and easy, you can break them apart and stick one whole one broken into fourths, throughout your 10 gallon. I would do a 4 corner's type of thing with them, but there are directions on the back of the root tab package. And then you just stick a new one in every 3 months or so :-D

Liquid fert's aren't too bad, I used API's LeafZone without a problem but I want to try SeaChem's Flourish as well. Instead of doing one dosage a week as the directions say, I do two small half doses during the week so I just split up the dosage. It's like two small meals during the week or one big one, my plants seem to prefer two small meals ;-)

Both will do well with tank cleanings each week since there are other things besides ammonia, nitrite and nitrates that build up in your tank so just easier to do a weekly change to be safe anyway.

And lighting, I don't suggest CFL's for any planted tanks, they're generally too low of a Kelvin rating to grow anything but Java fern/moss and anubias. What you're looking for is a light bulb with a Kelvin rating of 6,500K and/or above. 6,500 is the closest to natural sunlight, and the higher the rating you have, you'll have a "high Light" bulb and can grow any and all plants. If you have under 6,500K then you have "low light" bulbs and can only grow certain plants. Most fluorescent lights are 6,500K and above so if you can find that for your tank it would be the most beneficial.

Ooor you can go the DIY route and buy these from a home improvement store, not sure if you've got Home Depot or Lowe's over there but something like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...-Clamp-Light-CE-300PDQ/100354511#.UbXvOOc3szY or http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...-Clamp-Light-CE-200PDQ/100354513#.UbXvRec3szY

The watt's don't matter too much, I mean you don't want 1 watt per gallon because it might not be enough power to penetrate to the bottom of your tank. You want a strong light with a good Kelvin rating to grow your plants, both those lights are great and they can clamp onto your tank which is so convenient! You could then just use a Glass canopy instead of a hood so that your fish don't jump out or anything.

Of course I probably wouldn't get the 150 watt becuase you can burn your plants, just like the sun can. So the 75 watt one would be great for you tank and will grow pretty much anything and everything :-D

And of course they're cheaper than buying a whole new hood if you were going to go the fluorescent route lol


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

lilnaugrim, good news, the spiral CFL has a rating of 6500K. One more would double it. Would two be harmful? I mean, too much heat for the fish to bear? The bulb provision is at the right and left end of the hood. If I were to have only one, as the case now, the heat wouldn't be uniform(am I right/). Infact, the one bulb that I have now is heating the water too much. I am little concerned about it. Is that okay? I haven't checked on the temperature though. Should be around 30 degrees, with the two blue spot gourami. They are doing very well though. They have lasted for more than a month. I had a pair of 2 inch angels and then two female sword and one male sword along with them and they all are RIP now. Is that due to space crunch?

On the planted tank, the fish keeper told me that he has a fertilizer bag of Sechmes' which has to be layered below the substrate and forgot about the maintenance for the next 3 years. How true is that? Am not sure on which one he was talking - NPT or regular one. From what you said, I believe he spoke about the NPT. Could you please elaborate more on the regular planted thing, the root tab and stuff. I didn't git a bit of it. What plants do I start with as a beginner?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You only count for one rating, you don't combine them since combining them won't make the light stronger. So with 6,500K you can grow most medium lights and all low lights. You probably won't be able to do a carpet of much except maybe Java moss but it will do well :-D

Oh, is this the tank you wanted one species from each fish type in there? If so, then yes. Angel fish grow to at least 6 inches long and 6-8 inches high. They need at least 55 gallons with a mating pair, not just any pair because they will kill each other. The Blue spot Gourami get up to about 5-6 inches as well and need about 30-40 gallons for just one, they are extremely aggressive to their own kind like male Betta's. And yes the swords died most likely of too much ammonia, stress and possibly picking on from other fish like the gouramis.

I hope your blue Betta isn't going in with the Gouramis???

And if you want or can, you can do something to make the hood higher off the tank. Being not as close to the surface of the water will help with the heat. But of course if you've got a Betta in there you'd have to lower the level to at least 2 inches below the top line of the tank, otherwise they'll jump out.

And for that fish keeper, he was doing a variation of an NPT. SeaChem has a brand of substrate that is basically like soil, contains all the nutrients and stuff but it's not soil so it doesn't dirty your tank as much. They also do have a soil one as well so he could have been using either one. With NPT's you can forget about them after their initial set up and their first month, however Ammonia and poop in general can still build up and after a while you wouldn't have enough BB to keep it safe (this is after 1-2 years though of no water changes) So yes it is possible, but I wouldn't really recommend doing that. He probably didn't have fish in that tank though, maybe had some shrimp.

And for the planted tank: so you can just use regular gravel or sand. Most of mine have sand now but it's personal choice, some of mine still have gravel and they do just fine! So because you only have gravel/sand, you don't have the nutrients coming from the soil that you'd have in an NPT so instead you have to use regular fertilizers like a liquid fert and/or root tabs.

Root tabs are slow releasing tablets that will feed your plants over the course of about 3 months and then you replace that tab to feed for another 3 months. You could just use root tabs if you've got all planted plants but if you've got some floaters as well then I suggest using both, just at a smaller dosage. I use API's LeafZone and instead of one dose a week, I split that dosage into two and dose once on Saturday/Sunday and dose the other on Wednesday so they get two small meals.

With planted tanks you still need to do a water change each week, 25% will suffice. But it's safer for your fish because your plants eat up the nitrates so they won't get hurt by them. So I do my water change on my 10 gallon on Saturday and give them a small amount of liquid fert after that.

So the main difference between a regular planted tank and an NPT is that a NPT has soil so you don't have to use root tab's and liquid ferts whereas a planted tank doesn't have soil and you need root tabs and/or liquid ferts. It's not completely necessary but it certainly does help them thrive better.

Also something that I've found, plants prefer pH levels above 7.0, in my 33 it's 7.4-7.6 and my plants are absolutely blooming and in my 10 it's 6.5 and they're...doing...okay lol they're growing but just not half as well as in my 33. And then you need a light period of at LEAST 8 hours but I give mine 10 hours (8am-8pm)


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

I am rephrasing my tank lighting I spoke in my last thread . The 10G tank has provision for two bulbs; one at the right and one at the left atop. Currently I have only one, of 6500K rating. This is heating the water pretty quickly and unevenly. The other slot is void. If I were to add another one of the same rating making 13000K would that be fine for the plants or even the fish for that matter? Does it look too much:grin:


When you say combination may not increase the strength, is it that two 6500K would not equal one bulb of 13000K? I am seriously worried about the water heating up. Let me measure and post you next time. What really is the fuss about this 6500K?? 

If its too much I'd rather replace the present bulb and have two bulbs(one in each slot, at the right and left so that the heat is uniform through out) that would together rate 6500K or a little higher. What say? There isn't a provision to up the hood. This is a chinese tank I have. It is moulded at the front. Looks very nice though.

In case I drop the idea of planting, is lighting an absolute necessary for aquarium? Some say it is, for the obvious reason of the fishing getting to know when it is day and when it is night. At nights should an aquarium have a dimmer light, say LED moonlight? If at all lighting is a necessity for a non-planted tank, what rating should I use?

Yes this is the 10G I spoke about with the hope of having different species in :grin:. My betta is not with the gourami. Scroll up the thread to see the picture of his I posted previously. He is in a separate bowl.

I salute you lilnaugrim. The explanation on NPT and regular planted tank was clear cut. Very nice. What is that BB you said? Sorry I didn't get it.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Right, right! Sorry I thought you had plans to put your Betta in the 10 gallon after it was planted, my bad! There I go assuming things again lol

Okay so the real measurement of lighting that you're looking for is PAR, I'll send you a link so you can read about it. But for now understand that 6,500 Kelvin rating is the closest to the Sun color as you can get in a light bulb of any sort. That's why it's a big deal, you want to imitate the closest you can to the sun to optimally grow your plants.

And no you don't combine them even if you have two slots for the light bulbs, your rating stays at 6,500K. It doesn't get brighter just because you add another bulb, it will look like it but the color stays the same. That's what Kelvin rating is, it's telling you basically the color of your bulb. Plants tend to utilize more of the red light spectrums so blue lights do nothing for them.

If you are worried about it heating too much then you might want to find a different hood situation. I know you said it was molded but if the lights are going to burn your plants then that's not good either. If you've got floaters then yes, those lights will burn your plants. I use LED hoods and LED light strips for my tanks. So that's a possibility is just get a few stripes off line, take the light bulb out and just use the light stripes and that will grow your plants fine.

You don't need moonlighting for your tank, they will do perfectly fine without lights on at all. It's mostly just for cosmetic usage and if you've got say some cichlid's who are breeding and you don't want their egg's stolen in the night by some Cory's, then you keep the moonlights on so they can see and protect their eggs. Otherwise it's useless but they do look nice.

If the tank is not planted you don't need lights, but as you stated it's really beneficial for your fishes health so they can see daylight and know when to sleep. They can get messed up when the "sun" isn't out either like we do. Ever feel just really sleepy on a rainy day? They'll feel like that all the time if they don't have lights.

So that said, there are absolutely no limits to what lights you need if you chose not to do a planted tank. You can use anything from Fluorescents, CFL's, LED's, lamps from Home Depot or a regular desk lamp over the tank will do fine as well. And actually those will grow plants great too. So there's no limit or set rating that you need for a non planted tank.

And for BB that is your Beneficial Bacteria. That is what you are growing during the Nitrogen Cycle. They are what eat up and turn ammonia into nitrites and into nitrates to be taken out in a water change or eaten up by plants. Even if you don't cycle a tank for the month that it needs to grow your BB and you have a filter, it will inadvertently happen over time anyway so it won't make a difference. However it's best to do a cycle before your fish get in there anyway, just makes it easier so you don't have an ammonia spike and kill all your fish 

That help a little more?


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## manojvaz (May 4, 2013)

Hello De, should he be fully immersed in water. I am sorry I may sound stupid. It is a water plant yet this came to my mind. Wouldn't he do well with half of him in the water. I am a little worried about him polluting the tank and harming the fishes if he were to be rotting or dead.

What about Osmocote and Jobe sticks as plant food for root tabs? And what is about CO2 reactors? Are they essential for planted aquariums? I had asked previously. It may have slipped off your mind. No worries. I'd bet you'd surely answer this time.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If the plant has been submersed in water it's whole life (which is probable) then yeah, it's going to shrivel up and die when it's not submersed. Some plants can handle not being fully submerged in water but you should just get it into the tank as soon as possible. You can pull off the dying leaves; only the ones with brown at the edges. The other ones that looked crumpled should do fine in the water. They need water to keep hydrated, unless you spray it with water every 4-6 hours or so, it's going to dry out.

It won't hurt your fish or nothing unless the entire leaf dies and you leave it there. If you take it out right away it will be totally fine. In fact I really do want you to put that into the tank now so that it can stay hydrated.

And for co2 yeah, it did slip my mind, sorry! It's not essential for planted tanks or NPT's. It can help for sure but if you don't have air stones and bubbles stones everywhere then it will be fine. What happens is when you aerate the water, both oxygen and co2 exit the water column, so if you have no aeration in the water (you can have movement but not aeration) then you keep the co2 in the water.

So because co2 can exit the water so easily, people use the co2 systems to put it back into the water, but no it's not essential. But you can rig up your own DIY co2 yourself and you will have no worries of overdosing the tank. Yep, it's possible to over populate your tank with co2 which can lead to fish deaths so that's why you need a regulator/bubble counter with the fancy systems. With DIY, it doesn't make enough pressure to make enough co2 to hurt anything so there are no worries there.

But if you dose with liquid fert and the root tabs, there's really no need for co2 unless you want to dabble in it yourself. In that case you can use all three but I would use half the dosage for liquid fertilizers and half of the root tabs so that you're not overloading your tank with stuff. Make sense?


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