# Dog Troubles



## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Had my Fenris neutered on the 28th of July... Have had nothing but problems since then...

He had a puppy bacterial infection. They said it wasn't bad enough to effect the surgery. His belly looked much better when we picked him up since they scrubbed it all while he was under.
He went through the surgery like a champ.

First problem was that he wanted nothing more than to chew and lick at the incision site. This meant he had to wear a cone. He has to wear it until tomorrow.

The first night, the shot of pain killer they gave him wore off. He was up all night whining and crying. What did this mean for me? No sleep. Couldn't get any sleep because he couldn't.
The following morning he was started on an antibiotic and pain killer...
The pain killer did not work. We gave it a day... Then went back to the vet. He ended up on one that he takes 3 times a day and hates. At least we both sleep.

The antibiotics don't seem to be clearing up his puppy bacterial infection. I still give them to him as prescribed. On top of the pills, he got an injection while being neutered.

He also got micro-chipped. I'm taking no chances with him. He is now registered with Banfield (since they did his chip), the Home Again website, and with service dogs. I also take a pic of him every day because a lot of dogs have come up missing around us.

Needless to say, his vet bill was a lot more than anticipated... I didn't know he was going to get the injection of antibiotics. Nor did I expect the first pain medication to not work.
When a "pit bull type dog" is showing a lot of pain... Well, we had to take him in. I felt so very horrible for him.
Though, I must say that I'm happy I have him on a puppy wellness plan with Banfield. The bill would have been so much more expensive if I didn't.

Also... The cone makes him hold his ears funny. I took it off so he could eat on his own... Still held his ears funny. x_x


So... Has anyone else had problems like this after getting a dog fixed?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh my god I am so sorry to hear of your troubles! I haven't heard of any neutering problems personally.. Did the vets guess as to why he has the belly infection? Could it be an allergy to some of the meds or food he was given? Hopefully this all clears up soon!


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

I am so sorry you are going through this with him! I've never heard of this happening before. 

Hopefully his (and your) troubles will be over soon and you can enjoy the health benefits of having a neutered dog. My dog who my dad chose not to neuter is suffering of testicular cancer. 

Sending wishes your way!


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## shellieca (Jul 12, 2012)

I have never had a problem with my dogs after getting neutered or spayed, they were pretty much normal within 24hrs. They never had to wear the cone of shame, never had to have pain meds, but always had an antibiotic as a precaution. I'm EXTREMELY surprised they did surgery knowing he had an existing infection, IME most vets would wait until that was cleared up 1st. Prime example, when i got Anna from a resue, her vet wouldn't spay her until ALL her other medical issues were cured even though she was old enough. Personally I don't like Banfield, I used them once years ago & never have since, plus I've never heard anything good from others that have used them.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Awwwww... poor Fenris. I hope he heals up quickly.


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## MollyJean (Dec 29, 2009)

Sounds rough. But it won't last much longer, right? How old is he anyway? Some animals just have more problems then others. When Sadie had her knee surgery she wanted to chew on the stitches so bad. We had to wrap them up to keep her away and if we left her alone for very long she would chew through the wrapping and cotton pads.

If he's getting a lot of infections, maybe you should put him on a doggy multi vitamin or powdered food supplement to boost his immune system.. We where worried about Sadie after her knee problems and how weak her back legs seemed, so put her on K9 Mega and she's doing great now. No more weak legs and she's putting on weight (at last). Do some research and find a vitamin that works for you.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

The puppy infection he got is like a form of acne from what I was told. They said that some pups that get it have it until they're about a year old and then it goes away on it's own. It doesn't seem to bother him, surprisingly. The spots start off as pimples. When they burst, they leave behind this scab-like area.

I've used Banfield before and loved them. They took great care of the Am Staff I rescued and got on her feet. Had her get shots and spayed there. She had to have pain meds to keep her relaxed. Very active dog.

I have never had a problem of the pain medication not working before. Nor have I had a dog need the cone of shame before Fenris. The vet who did the surgery suggested it because he kept going after the site any time he thought they weren't paying attention.

I have to say though... The Banfield I use has 1 vet I do not like. I will NOT let him see my dog a second time. The one time he saw Fenris, he handled my pup with fear and you could tell he didn't really want to handle him. Fenris is a 6 month old bundle of love. He doesn't bite and NEVER growls. Not even while playing with us or other dogs. He doesn't have his ears done, so he looks soft and cute. Well, he looks a bit tougher now because he has since lost his puppy weight and gained some nice muscle tone. All the other people there love him to death.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Took him to the vet yesterday...

The vet he usually has because I make appointments for when she is there.. XD I like her and rather she see him since she seems to be a bully lover... Took a look at him. She said that he looks like he's healing fine. Also said that it is at the healing point where it will probably be itchy to him.

Brought him home. It was about 100 degrees out... And the power went out. So we took the three dogs (him and the 2 Danes) out front and hosed them off. Fenris was all for romping. He played mostly with the female Dane as is usual for him. Hosed them off again after they played for a bit. Let them drink from the hose. Fenris looked like he was getting _really_ tired. So we brought his kennel downstairs where it was cooler. We put him in there to air dry and nap (didn't want him on the furniture where the dogs are allowed or to hurt himself trying to run on wood floors with wet feet).... Only he then slept the rest of the day. He didn't even get up again for a last potty before bed... or dinner. Fenris *never* misses a meal. Ever. He got up this morning. I put him out for potty time. When he came back in, he loved on me a little and then headed right upstairs... This is very unlike him as well. He always sits very nicely and waits for fresh water. Had to bring water to him. He drank it and then went into his kennel. I even had to feed him his breakfast in there. He ate it all... And went back to sleep...


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Aw maybe its the meds or changing hormones/testosterone or simply the heat that's having him act funny. I'm glad his belly is getting better! He sounds like a real treasure <3


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Lady I bought him from thinks that he may have been hit by a bit of depression once the cone was off and he noticed things were missing.

Now I am having completely different troubles. Since the neuter, he has been behaving... Unlike himself. Biting and acting out. Things have gotten even worse today. I'm not really sure what to do about it...
I've done all the usual things. I have pinned him. I have bit his ear. Slapped his butt. Done positive reinforcement. Exercise. None of it is working. So I'm talking to the lady I bought him from. She and her husband are going to give me ideas as we go along. If he doesn't straighten out within a month, I will be sending him to them for a kind of puppy boot-camp. If it comes to that, I will pay for any of his food/expenses while he's there. Also, if it comes to that and it doesn't work, she has offered to take him pack and give me a new pup. I love my Fenris and hope it doesn't come to that. However, if some of his behaviors don't change... I will have no choice.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Who is this lady you got him from? 
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like a back yard breeder...


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

teeneythebetta said:


> Who is this lady you got him from?
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like a back yard breeder...


Actually, sounds like a pretty good breeder! Backyard breeders don't care about their pups at all. This one is going to help with training and will take the pup back if necessary. THAT is a sign of a good breeder.

You say the surgery was on Fenris' tummy? Did he have un-descended testicles? I only know about Cat neuters and usually only the sacs are involved unless they need to go thru the belly for an un-descended testicle. That is a more invasive surgery much like a spay and would take longer to recover.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, I've never had such problems when I've had my dogs neutered. 
I once had a male cat neutered and he had on that hadn't distended, so I had to pay more for the vet to do surgery to find it and remove it. He had to wear a cone of shame too because he took all his stiches out and when I went to check on his stiches, I saw way more of my cat than I wanted to. The vet then sutured him up on the inside (don't know how she did that) so he couldn't reach them again. After that he healed up nicely. 
I hope the same for your little guy. I don't have any idea why he is having the personality changes however.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Actually, sounds like a pretty good breeder! Backyard breeders don't care about their pups at all. This one is going to help with training and will take the pup back if necessary. THAT is a sign of a good breeder.
> 
> You say the surgery was on Fenris' tummy? Did he have un-descended testicles? I only know about Cat neuters and usually only the sacs are involved unless they need to go thru the belly for an un-descended testicle. That is a more invasive surgery much like a spay and would take longer to recover.


I see what you are saying.
It just reminded me of my grandma's dog.. My grandma picked an obviously back yard breeder... The puppy came down with mange shortly after bringing her home... The breeder said she would take the puppy back and give her a new one... 

No genetic health testing came with my grandma's pup, just some lady that though AKC meant well bred, which is totally incorrect.

But every situation is different.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

My pup has papers. I met the breeder and her family along with all the dogs who are all family raised. I had to sign a contract to get Fenris. He is worth a good chunk of money but they were kind enough to let me get him for less than what he is worth because he was to be used as my psychiatric service dog.

The issues he was having with his tummy and groin are are like a puppy version of acne. It's a slight bacterial infection that can happen with pups up to a year old. The antibiotics have cleared it up now, thankfully.
Both were descended so it was a pretty standard neuter. His reaction to it is what has not been normal. I have owned dogs for quite a long time. I grew up with them from birth. I've only ever been around 2 that weren't neutered (a Doby I was raised with and an American bulldog-wolf hybrid I raised and homed with a family). This is the first time I have had a dog react like this. He has become snappy and fights with me over everything. He through a fit this morning and I had to pin him. In the process, he tore up my arms and legs. Not too long ago, had to do the same again. This time, when I let him up, he tried to bite my face....
Fenris has not bitten me before today since shortly after my bringing him home. He also bit my daughter last night. He has never done this before. He was of sound temperament before the neutering. It was a good breeding of two very sound dogs. None of the other pups are having these problems. The lady I bought him from and I have both come to the same conclusion: It is some kind of reaction to the neutering.
This is why she has made the offer she has. We are giving him a month to see if it is residual hormones and he is just going through a kind of false puberty. I'm having patience with him and continuing to work with him to see if we can work past this.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

My prayers are with you and Fenris *hugs*


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

*hugs* Thank you.

I really appreciate that they have offered to help me through this. It's one of the reasons that I bought from them.
I have put a lot of time and effort into his training. He is fantastic with several commands: sit, down, up, speak, paw, over (rolls onto side), watch me, wait and go (used for food and water so he doesn't spill, wait has him sit patiently while go lets him go to his bowls). Have been working on stay and walking on a leash with the proper manners (had to get him a gentle leader after the neuter he started pulling more).


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I had a thought *rare I know* could it be he is acting out because of the pain medication he hates to take? Just a thought.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

Enkil said:


> Lady I bought him from thinks that he may have been hit by a bit of depression once the cone was off and he noticed things were missing.
> 
> Now I am having completely different troubles. Since the neuter, he has been behaving... Unlike himself. Biting and acting out. Things have gotten even worse today. I'm not really sure what to do about it...
> I've done all the usual things. I have pinned him. I have bit his ear. Slapped his butt. Done positive reinforcement. Exercise. None of it is working. So I'm talking to the lady I bought him from. She and her husband are going to give me ideas as we go along. If he doesn't straighten out within a month, I will be sending him to them for a kind of puppy boot-camp. If it comes to that, I will pay for any of his food/expenses while he's there. Also, if it comes to that and it doesn't work, she has offered to take him pack and give me a new pup. I love my Fenris and hope it doesn't come to that. However, if some of his behaviors don't change... I will have no choice.


how old is he now? they do go through phases where they tend to push the limits, he is nearing that age, called the teenage phase lol and they can be a handful. Please dont pin him, its called an alpha roll and it is not based in science, it is actually based on faulty science and the only time dogs pin each other outside of play is to kill. It can be a very anxiety inducing act. Dont bite or slap his butt. Stick with one method, just one, and IMO use positive reinforcement. You may have to go back to basics with him. Are you providing mental stimulation as well as physical exercise? They do need both and it will help. I would recommend getting some work to eat toys and feeding him his meals out of those and not out of a bowl. Work on training in small, short, fun sessions throughout the day. I would also recommend against sending him to the breeder for doggy boot camp, he will learn to behave for someone else at someone else's house. Dogs dont generalize so there is no guarentee that he will behave well at your place when coming home and there is no guarentee that the people wont use a damaging training method which will just hurt your relationship. I highly recommend looking into doggy zen exercises that help teach a dog self control and how to relax.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I am a vet student and have studied animal behavior. I am sorry, but I know that the pinning method works. I have used it before and have seen dogs do it outside of play. Mother dogs do it to pups who overstep the boundaries. I know that biting their ear works. I have both used it and seen it used. Again, mother dogs do the same thing to pups.

Fenris is 6 months old. The neutering could have triggered a false puberty. Doing positive reinforcement but being firm with him.

Been looking for toys that you put food/treats in and the dog has to work to get them out... Only, finding one he wont destroy within the first day is hard. He demolishes hard chews like they are nothing. He gets rolled pig skins and they just don't last. He destroys all his toys. Even ones that are supposed to last.
So I do search and find with little treats and bits of his kibbles. He seems to enjoy our little game and I always try to hide them in new places.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

Google alpha roll debunked or dominance training debunked, you will find a ton of info, the study it was based on is faulty, doing it in play is very different than when serious. Google Patricia mcconnell and Sophia yin both have phds in animal behaviour. 

The trick with work to eat toys is to supervise and pick them up as soon as they are done. Use black kongs and freeze them. Also look into aikiou bowls.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Alpha roll worked with our wolf dog when he started getting Alpha ideas. He's a wonderful reliable pet.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

tpocicat said:


> Alpha roll worked with our wolf dog when he started getting Alpha ideas. He's a wonderful reliable pet.


If you read the literature it talks about why it can work but why you shouldn't use it, there can be psychological ramifications. The original study that popularized alpha rolls was done terribly and not on an actual pack of wolves.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I have always used the alpha role with my dogs and always will. It works and has never harmed my dogs in any way. All have been happy and healthy. Not going to stop what works now. I know it works and, as I said, mother DOGS do it to their pups to show them they are not in charge or have done wrong. Ear biting works. Taking on an alpha role works. I have used both on: beagles, mutts, bassets, dobies, rotties, chis, Am Staffs, my wolf hybrid. I also use dominant roles with Danes.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

That's a great way for some dominance it the house. Lol
How's Fenris now? And do you mind telling me how much money the vet bills were for neutering, injections, and all that? It's just that in a few years I *might* get a dog so I really want to know how much money are the vet bills for you. The internet has mixed replies, yikes. >.0


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2007250,00.html
http://www.helium.com/items/1524197-dog-psychology-the-effect-of-adverse-training-methods
http://companionanimalsolutions.com/blogs/dangers-of-alpha-rolling/
http://positivepolicedogs.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/should-i-alpha-roll-my-dog/
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/n...og_training_techniques_can_cause_more_harm_t/_


im sure as a vet student you like evidenced based methods and research, the above are some of those, the last one being written by a phd in animal behaviour.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

starr - I'm sorry, but I know what works. I have studied dogs. I have helped whelp dogs. I have watched what mother dogs to their pups. They pin them. They bite their ears. I do what works and none of my dogs have ever had issues from it. They have been well behaved and great family pets.



Lebron - I have a wellness plan for him with Banfield. It really pays off! They have a puppy plan that covers most of the neuter/spay. What cost us was that he needed antibiotics for the skin infection. He also got chipped which was about $30 something. After the surgery, he was put on an antibiotic pill and pain reliever. The first pain reliever didn't work for him, so we had to get a different one. Which cost more. Then there was the cone. He's a big head so his cone was a little more than expected. lol So long as dog is healthy going into it, it wont cost much. The pain reliever tends to be really inexpensive. The first one they put them on is a chewable.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

well I can anecdotally say that I can keep a betta alive in an unheated 1 gallon container but that doesnt mean its good for it... You arent a dog, and you arent the pups mother, they are smart and know the difference. But there is no point in beating a dead horse. I do suggest doing more research into actual scientific based methods. And I highly recommend Patricia McConnell's book The Other End of the Leash.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Enkil said:


> Lebron - I have a wellness plan for him with Banfield. It really pays off! They have a puppy plan that covers most of the neuter/spay. What cost us was that he needed antibiotics for the skin infection. He also got chipped which was about $30 something. After the surgery, he was put on an antibiotic pill and pain reliever. The first pain reliever didn't work for him, so we had to get a different one. Which cost more. Then there was the cone. He's a big head so his cone was a little more than expected. lol So long as dog is healthy going into it, it wont cost much. The pain reliever tends to be really inexpensive. The first one they put them on is a chewable.


So it varies. Great... Well that's great you have like an insurance? I wonder if that's here... Well, get well soon! And I hope all the other bills aren't expensive. 8I


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Banfield is the vet clinic I take Fenris to. They have wellness plans you get your pet on and pay so much a year for. It covers quite a lot and discounts most other things. I love it. Where do you live?
Up until now, he hasn't really been an expensive dog. My Talon was, and I tend to look at expenses differently because of it. XD The surgery and following expenses were a little more than expected. Not too big a deal. It happens sometimes. Other than that, the most expensive part of him has been toys. lol They just don't stand up to him.



starr - I'm sorry, but I am not going to argue this with you. Experts have different opinions. None of my dogs have ever been harmed by my methods. All have been good dogs and well adjusted. I do what works, that is all there is to it. If you do not like that, please do not post here. The way you are going about this is not helpful.




At the moment, Fenris is being my sleepy pup. He was acting out again this morning. Having him be my snuggle bug now. Kind of need it after the rough night. While he sleeps, I tend to rest my head against him.


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## starrlamia (May 3, 2012)

any expert with an actual PHD in animal behaviour, ie those qualified to speak about it, would disagree. Most people out there who say they are trainers or behaviourists have very little if no actual education in dog behaviour. Im not sure how it isnt helpful to post links to qualified and respected behaviourists?


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I live near D.C. :/ I have a clinic near here called "Kindness Animal Hospital". There's 3 animal hospitals near me. I just remember this one.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm glad to hear he seems to be calming down a bit, at least for awhile. My hope is that he is only acting out because of all the medical stuff he has had to endure and will come out of it soon.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

LebronTheBetta said:


> I live near D.C. :/ I have a clinic near here called "Kindness Animal Hospital". There's 3 animal hospitals near me. I just remember this one.


In Fresno, Banifield is part of PetSmart. FYI...


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I hope my Petsmart has that. I think they do, I remember a "Ban" then something else. They do check ups.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm in OR. Have lived in NY, NC, MN, and Iowa. I've always found Banfield attached to PetSmart. ^_^

tpoc - I'm hoping that's what it is too. I'm hoping that it's a mix between the surgery and everything that went with it and false puberty.


starr - It is not helpful because of how you are coming across. You are doing it in a rather attacking manner. How people feel on the subject is still split and there are still experts who say the method I use works. It will always be a split subject. Some will always say it works while others will say that it doesn't. That's just the way of most things. My methods work for me and always have. If you wish to not understand that, that is your right.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> I hope my Petsmart has that. I think they do, I remember a "Ban" then something else. They do check ups.



That would be it. ^_^ They do more than checkups. If you want to be sure, you can always go in and talk to them about their services. They tend to be friendly and helpful in my experience. With my wellness plan, he gets so many check-ups at no cost.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

That's great!  I could go there. They certainly care about dogs more than fish.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I really like them. They have just 1 vet on staff that I don't like so I make sure Fenris sees one of the others.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I'll see if they have a good reputation.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

I wish we had something like that here. It seems the vets here are all privately owned and operated which allows them to make up prices which for many here is unaffordable.


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

I hate when vets do that.

I remember the private vet we took our dogs to when I was growing up. Seemed like we always spent more on the gas getting there and back than on the bill. I love Doc Underwood though. He was great with all pets. He had started out doing house calls as well as having an office and saw to the local farm animals before he got too old for that. He even had a small barn/stable attached to his office so people could still bring the odd horse or cow to him. He was fantastic with our dobies and is the reason why I wanted to be a vet growing up.
I'm hoping to finish school and have a practice of my own.



In other news, Fenris started acting more like himself yesterday. Very happy about that.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

What a relief! I hope it continues. (it should)


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## Enkil (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you. I certainly hope so too.

He's still doing better but has room for improvement. Got him some new training treats to work with.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

Has Fenris gone back to being his old self? Is that why you haven't added anything new to this thread? (I hope so).


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