# Valentine's tank



## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

:frown2:

Just over 2 weeks into cycling my new 5g tank, I got some green algae on the glass, and moved a zebra snail in. He seems as happy as larry and is running trails through it.

But then yesterday, I noticed speckles of black *all over* two plants. Like leopard spots. Both plants came from the same place, so I am sure they arrived with it. Though invisible at the time.
I didn't 'bleach' them before adding to the tank because they arrived in v cold weather and I didn't want to shock them further. It was a conscious decision that now turns out to be a mistake.

:frown2::frown2::frown2:

No algae showing on any of the other plants (yet) which either came from Tropica, AquariumGardens, or my old tank which has a v slight running population of green algae that feeds the snails in there.

So, am now running a dark tank for a few days, and have ordered some Seachem Flourish.

Do you think there is any point in digging out both of the algaed plants (1 Anubias mini and 1 dwarf Java Fern) and 'bleaching' them now?


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*Green algae*

The Green Algae is not a bad thing really. It's showing the tank is doing well. Now that said a green bloom on your plants is natural. You say you put in a zebra snail which is doing well. How about putting in about 3 more mystery or nitrate snails. They love climbing the plants and eating the algae off of them and they wont eat your plants. If your tank is close to a window which offers natural light than either move the tank from the window or only use your tank light 6-8 hours a day, I have a FrugaRay planted + 16 inch from Finnex greatest light I have ever used. Plants grow great on an 8 hour timer. But I still get algae on the sides and on the plants. I clean the sides with a scraper daily but I leave the algae to my 4 mystery snails and the plants all look good. Use Flourish once a week 1/2 teaspoon and your plants will do very well. You also said you found spots on some of your leaves? are they moving? if they are than I would remove the plants and dip them in bleach. Either that or assassin snails will do that job right quick. I never like those little critters. Worse than flees and bed bugs.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Well well well
Have spent the evening reading up on diatoms... now second guessing the Flourish.

The zebra snails (nerites) do such a fab job in the big tank, I may move all of them into 5g for a little feast.
Only problem is getting the brown stuff off the fine leaves. I went for dwarf and mini varieties to avoid overwhelming the small tank. So the zebras are probably too hefty to climb the delicate ones.

Oh, and light... tricky. 
Some say starve diatoms of light.
Others say diatoms are far less dependant on light than true algaes, and keep enough light so the plants grow rapidly.

Oh well, one thing I can definitely be pleased about 🙂
Apparently diatom bloom usually happens near the end of cycling.

Which pleases me no end! 🙂


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

@Old Dog
Sorry, wrote my post before reading yours (the perils of navigating the forum on a smart phone).

Yes, am happy about the green algae. Have always considered some algae to be a sign of diversity and a healthy tank, so long as it is under control. Happy as Larry Snail will have the others move in with him for a while, and will watch for progress.

A couple of my reading sources this evening said their diatoms got worse with Flourish. So I may save it until the snails have munched their way through most of it. It is definitely brown surface algae rather than baby snails, I am delighted to say.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*snails*

You would be surprised to find even larger snails climbing delicate plants don't do any harm to them, I have some plants in my tank that I thought the snails I have (all 4 are over 1 inch) would hurt or break the leaves off. They climb them and even get the very tips clean and the plants don't even bend. It has to do with their Bouncy. they make themselves lighter than the leaves. I'm amazed each time I see one on my ferns. As far as using flourish, unless you have a nutrient rich substrat or you use plant tabs your plants would not get enough nutrient and would show signs of stress from lack of food. I have a mix of ferns and Anubis in the tank and each have a different light need and nutrient need. I add 2.5 ml per week of flourish and my plants grow like weeds. I'm trimming the bunch plants almost 2 times a week, all of my plants are in regular white sand not substrat, the bunch plants are held in place buried in the sand and have rooted within 2 weeks of planting. My anubis are also planted but only the roots are in the sand and only about 1/8 inch deep and I've put a few pebbles over the roots to hold them in place. Every plant I have has rooted in short order and I know it's because I do use flourish and also the natural nitrites help to feed them. 
As far as the algae let the snails do their job and use a scraper on the back front and sides of the glass. If you go to an aquarium and look at the plants there you will notice every plant will have some algae growing on the leaves and stems. it's natural. So let your snails do their job and thank the cycle and the job it's done, because green algae (to some extent) is one sign of a healthy tank.

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958388&stc=1&d=1545306575

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958390&stc=1&d=1545306575

Notice the algae bloom and the snails on the more fragile bunch plant leaves.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Yes indeed.
That mountaineering snail is AWESOME!!!

As I said, am happy to have the green algae, just not the brown (diatoms), but that will all sort itself out in time. Always a relief to read on the internet how many experienced tank scapers and experienced aquarists have the diatom bloom late in the cycling process.

Must admit that my major concern is just the small size of this tank. 5g is just too small for me. Really wish I had gone bigger. Wonder how long I will last before upgrading to at least a 10. Haha!

(by the way, the substrate is this stuff https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/tropica-aquarium-soil-3l-1029-p.asp and the liquid fertiliser is this https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/tnc-complete-500ml-227-p.asp so it won't be long before the plants muscle the algae to the sidelines. I hope)


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I have found small tanks a big challenge with out a doubt. I like my bigger tanks for the room and the ability to control the way it's planted and better filtration. In my 75 gal. I use a canister filter which will filter 900 gal. per Hour and a 300 gal. per hour HOB. In this way not only am I getting the filtration at both ends (top and bottom of the tank) and in this way the tank stays crystal clear and the canister filter doesn't need changed as often. In my 29 gallon I use a canister filter and also a HOB which together filter about 600 gph. Yes I do over filter these tanks but with the 29 gal. I have pushed the limit of fish in the tank by about 15 and the 75 gal. also over stocked, so in this case filtration is a must. My 75 gal. is home to African Cichlids from Lake Victoria Bottom is all White sand with some plants but mostly Rocks built up with hides for breeding and homes for 56 fish. All the new fry I let go until they are big enough and feeding well and then sold to a local buyer or traded for supplies. (keeps my cost down). So I do find it harder to cycle and keep a smaller tank, but I do have a lot more fun, and it keeps me busy, and out of trouble, which my Wife likes. 
If you want to go bigger for your boy try a 10 gallon heavy planted (more Nano tank than fish tank.) I have one Double tail, My oldest boy, in my 10 gallon and he has been with me for 8 years and at times I get a friends female that he breeds with and after they hatch he gets all the fry. (just a treat for the old boy) he's a good father. LOL. The longer your in to fish Keeping the more you learn and the more you want to try. It's a hobby you will love for life. Nothing like sitting in the fish room with my wife, and nothing but the tank lights on, and some soft music just watching the fish. So soothing.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Lovely.
And now I want to see pics of ALL your tanks! lol

I realised I should have posted a pic of the tank so you could see it.

This is the 5g at around 5 days old


The diatoms have developed on the plants in each back corner, and the green algae on the right side wall (which is also the wall that gets the light from my computer. The plants have already grown and started to fill out.

Today was day 2 of darkness.
Tomorrow, I will turn on the light and see if the diatoms have continued to spread in the dark.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*Your tank*

Beautiful tank I like the how every thing blends. I really hope there is no more brown algae.
I'll see if I can find some recent pictures. Most of the ones I have are on my other drive (external) that I don't have hooked up since our move.

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958394&stc=1&d=1545328868


https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958396&stc=1&d=1545329044 


Parts of the 29 gal but none of the 75. sorry


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thank you - they look great.
I've always had very simple, stress free tanks. And to be honest, things have been ticking over comfortably for years. None of this high tech multi light options that everyone is doing nowadays.

Getting Tagawa in the big tank, and now starting up the 5g is reigniting my learning curve! 
Am loving it.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*A few more*

Some of Gunny my elephant ear in his digs. not as heavily planted.

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958398&stc=1&d=1545329652

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958400&stc=1&d=1545329721

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958402&stc=1&d=1545329774



And Harry in his 5.5 gal

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958404&stc=1&d=1545330117


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous

They give such pleasure, don’t they?


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*Pleasure and love*

They do give a lot of pleasure. But the best pleasure is knowing you do your best to make the tank and all in it, the best home you can. When the water quality and health of the tank show in the care you take all the work, and love you put into the final result. knowing this tank has been up now for some 4 years with no loss of fish, and plants that just keep on growing, the satisfaction I get just watching these guys is so great. I found some pictures of my 29 gallon but have not gotten to find any of my 75. 

29 gallon community tank. Know that these are pictures taken right after the tank went up 4 years ago the plants have tripled in size and coverage.

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958418&stc=1&d=1545396324

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958420&stc=1&d=1545396345

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958422&stc=1&d=1545396379

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958424&stc=1&d=1545396402

https://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=958426&stc=1&d=1545396626


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Fab pics 
I sooooo covet a bigger tank.
I was standing in my LFS today, while they had a mini crisis. Apparently the next store over (25 miles away) had discovered a leak in one of their huge marine tanks and my home store were sending over one of their spare tank to try and save the occupants.

It was 6 feet x 2 x 2. All staff were dealing with the crisis, and all customers were being ignored, while the staff carried the thing out to the transport van.

Good set of priorities! 

Hope it all goes OK.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Diatom bloom is improving! yay!

3 days of darkness, and the black blobs seem to be lifting off the plant leaves by themselves. The snail is still busy on the glass, and hasn't trekked across the carpet plants to find the middle of the tank.

There are still dots of brown algae/diatoms on the fake tree root, where the light hits it. But I have decided not to worrit about them. Everything I read says that a diatom bloom is usual towards the end of cycling a new tank, and it will clear by itself in a few weeks. In the meantime, I want the snail to have something to eat.

I have also added some small indian almond (catappa) leaves to both tanks. Bought normal sized ones (which turn out to be 8 inches long) and small ones, which are around 1-2 inches long. have put half a big one in the 15 gallon, and 3 little ones in the 5g, and will see what they do, adjusting accordingly.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

In other news, I have not been able to resist having a look around for a future ruler of the 5g.
Premature, I know, since cycling is ongoing, and probably will be for a couple of weeks.
But I have seen these beauties, and fallen in love with all of them.
Unfortunately, I expect they will all be sold long before I am ready to buy.

However, as a newcomer to betta I am curious to know how much their colour is likely to change over time.
My current betta, Tagawa, was a pale irridescent aqua green and blood red, when I bought him. Over the next month, he has slowly deepened to a peacock blue-green and much brighter red.

Are the following youngsters likely to darken/alter/change as they grow up more. I know that old bettas go duller and browner, but the yellow one, for instance - is he likely to dull down to brown before he hits old age?


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

Their colors will most likely brighten and intensify. The only time they actually change color is when they have what's commonly referred to as the marble gene, although I have had one who's blue wash faded leaving only the red under color but that happened right before he passed away from an illness I could not cure.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*The right food*

I find the more comfort They find in their home the more vibrant their colors come out. I have also found the food they eat is also a color enhancement. I have fed Omega One betta buffet to all my guys for years. This food has everything a betta needs, and more it does contain color enhancement and their colors don't really change but they get brighter and are enhanced by the food. It comes in pellet and flakes. I feed flakes to my guys and like I said I have for years. Ben was a PetSmart Black Orchard and his colors when I bought him did look like a Black Orchard, After a few weeks with the Omega One his colors have come out and his black has turned to a very vibrant blue green and the tail tips have come out with more white with the inner part a very dark blue black. I know Harry was a blur double tail when I got him and since being fed Omega One his blue has gotten darker and there are reds and greens that have popped out. Gunny's Gray body has gotten some what darker and his white fins just make him stand out. Omega One Betta Buffet is an all natural food made just for betta it is a complete diet. I have been feeding Omega one foods to all my fish and colors have really popped,


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

bluesamphire said:


> In other news, I have not been able to resist having a look around for a future ruler of the 5g.
> Premature, I know, since cycling is ongoing, and probably will be for a couple of weeks.
> But I have seen these beauties, and fallen in love with all of them.
> Unfortunately, I expect they will all be sold long before I am ready to buy.
> ...


In time I think all the colors will darken and enhance but again when they settle in and their comfort level settles them down, It's a good bet each one of those choices will stand out. By the way I'm very partial to the Elephant Ear Those colors are so beautiful.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I completely forgot, but high Nitrates also feed algae. Maybe not in this case but something good to file away.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks.

Glad the colours intensify. Will wait and see when my tank stops cycling, and maybe one of them will still be available...

As for nitrates.
Yeah. 
The water comes out of my tap at 40. So low nitrates are never going to happen. I do buy some bottled water in, and alternate tap water and bottled, to try stop them rising above 40. Regular water changes help too, of course.
Of course, if I buy fish locally, they are all used to this level of nitrate already.

The diatoms seem to be falling off the plants, which is odd but pleasing.
They are stuck to the wood better.
I'm just using the lights for around 4-6 hours a day, and the plants are growing nicely.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

The last few days have been very eventful. The tank was ready for an occupant, so I checked the 4 mentioned above. And all had been sold. A pity, but I hope they have gone to good homes. 

So I found a very handsome HM koi online, and ordered him. Delivery today.

I was on absolute tenterhooks since it was my first online fish order and first postal delivery. It all went without a hitch, except for one minor detail - they sent the wrong fish!

The new arrival is still pale, but seems to be red and white with an iridescent lavender over the top. And a dumbo. Quite stunning, but most definitely NOT a koi!

See pics for what I was expecting, and what I got.

Having contacted the seller, it sounds like my koi and the dumbo got swapped. The seller was profoundly apologetic and is offering/insisting on sending a replacement koi, and asked me to ‘give the dumbo a home’ since returning him 150 miles would be impossible.

His name is Valentine. With those colours, the name chose itself! Mind you, they may change over time. Though I think the name has stuck.

I still haven’t decided whether to accept the koi. I have a couple of days to decide, on account of the new year bank hol. I will have to get a tank organised very quickly, if I do want him.

So my carefully cycled tank now has


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Here’s another pic to show his silver tipping.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I believe your HMEE is called Purple Salamander and he is lovely. He should stay that color. I would still add the Koi. And that is why I am called "The Enabler." 

Do not know if this help, but I have used something similar to this Forum's fish-in tutorial for donkey's years and have never, ever hurt a fish or noticed any changes in behavior during cycling. The trick is using SeaChem Prime which detoxifies Free/Toxic Ammonia (NH3) and converts it to Ammonium (NH4). I will warn you that the API Ammonia test measures Total Ammonia (NH3+NH4) so will see NH4 as NH3; why some say you get a false positive using Prime. That is why I recommend anyone using Prime to cycle buy a SeaChem Ammonia Alert which only measures NH3. 

https://www.bettafish.com/30-betta-fish-care/507585-cycling-two-sentence-tutorial.html


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Haha! Enabler, eh? I don’t need any encouragement. I spent the whole of yesterday evening looking at tanks, equipment and positions in the house for tank no 3.

That Seachem cycling instruction could come in VERY useful. Thank you.

But maybe sanity will prevail. We live in a small townhouse, and I don’t like small tanks, so positioning another tank isn’t going to be easy.

As for Valentine being a Purple Salamander... wow... that sounds very impressive. He has just gone up in my estimation! Off to google the name now...


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

More pics of Valentine.
Just because he is sitting on my desk now, and I can get nice steady shots of him.
He seems to rather enjoy the attention. Which is a good thing.







There has been a bit of negotiation this morning, over breakfast, and tank No 3 containing koi is reluctantly acceptable to Mr Samphire. The location of the tank though... that discussion is still ongoing.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Haha!
Operation Tank3KOI is now fully underway.
Tank, heater and stand ordered. (Fluval flex 57litre)
Waiting for text from LFS tomorrow saying they are ready for collection.

3 small bags of new filter media have been soaked in mature tank water and Waterlife, now sitting ‘brewing’ in Tagawa’s 15g

No time to order substrate and plants so will have to (gasp) go out shopping for them. 

Have a ordered Ammonia Alert (thanks for that tip!) and a heater cover for Valentine who looks like he might be a Heater Hugger


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Glad you are getting him...he is quite, quite gorgeous and will make a nice compliment to Tagawa and Valentine.

BTW, SeaChem Stability is what I use when cycling a new tank or adding tank mates. In my terms, not technical, it fertilizes the existing nitrifying bacteria and prevents a mini cycle or cycle crash. Sometimes I add it for just the heck of it.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

The usual mild chaos when plans are thrown together at short notice.
- tank and stand have arrived and look great.
Went for the 57litre Fluval flex, mainly because of the back filter chamber (which I can tweak with more filter media) and the lights. Remote control, lots of lighting options, and good for a low tech med-low light plant setup.

Valentine’s plants in the 12inch cube were all chosen for their small leaves and slow growth, so they won’t swamp the tank. Carpet plants. Mosses. Anubias mini mini.

Decided this new tank with have a v different look. I want big tall plants and surface cover, with stems for Kham (the koi) to swim through. A bigish sunken log. Should give small-fish-in-big-forest effect, rather than big-fish-in-nano-planting.
If it works, of course!

And I will aim (longterm) for a gorgeous yellow Mystery snail, like @Old Dog 59 has and as many ember tetras as is appropriate for the tank.
Big snail.
Big plants.
Small fish.
Big cattapa leaves...

Only, no one bothered to tell me that every fish store around is closed (New Year’s Day), so I can neither buy substrate, nor fill and plant today.
Most frustrating!
I wanted the tank to sit for 48hrs before Kham’s arrival.
But i have just lost a whole day!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

*You really made out*

Even though he's not what you ordered, he is so beautiful. I do like elephant ears, and his color is just fantastic. Getting another tank ready so fast for the new one is always fun. Fish in cycle is not that hard. Just beware of Ammonia spikes and with plants you may not have problems with nitrite and nitrate spikes, but they do happen. I would suggest Ammo Lock with each water change and an ammonia alert in the tank. I never thought much of Snails but I must say the 4 mystery snails I did put in just amaze me. The way they climb the plants even the weakest stems they clean the leaves with no problem.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Well, he arrived this morning.
My heart sank when I opened the package. The water was urine yellow and he was very floppy (but definitely alive).
So I took even more care than my usual extreme care in acclimating him.
Used a turkey baster, drop by drop, and kept it very dark.
And he responded brilliantly.

His name is Kham, which apparently means Gold or Golden in one of the Thai dialects.

He has taken full command of the whole tank and is buzzing about as if he had lived here for years.
He loves the catappa leaf (i’m guessing it will sink soon)

Here he is:






The tank is just regimented lines of plants and the substrate (at the moment).
The logs and betta leave haven’t arrived yet. Hopefully tomorrow...


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

He's a beautiful boy! I'm so happy that he's adjusted well.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Me too!
The seller emailed me mid morning to check he was OK - which i really appreciated.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

He is very beautiful, I'm glad he had someone to care for him when he arrived. I have never purchased live fish on line and never will. I want to see the fish first, and see how they are cared for. I never buy a fish from a tank that has dead loss, or from a store that does not show the buyer that they know how to keep their tanks clean. I have walked into too many places looked at their fish, and walked out with out any type of purchase of fish, or supplies. So many times I walked into a store, looked over their stock of betta and went right to the manager and made a complaint about the way their cups had never had a water change. Does it do any good???? most times no, I want to rescue all of them but can't. It breaks my heart to see any animal being kept in distress. However there are people like you and I here on the forum that care out of love and want the best for their charges. Why have a pet that depends on their human to care and feed and clean up after them, If that human only holds interest for a few months. Your charges whether fish or animal are yours to care for, for their life time not just until you become disinterested in their care. Well enough rant for now. You have done an amazing job with all your boys and go to any length to make sure they receive the best care you can give. lot of love there Mom.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

It breaks my heart when I see pets that are neglected after that first flush of enthusiasm.
And angry.
I seem to go the other way, looking for ways to improve their living conditions over time.

One dog (shih tzu) goes to an animal chiropractor, for goodness’ sake. Haha!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Your a great Mom.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Did you ask the seller about the water? It might have been something the seller added.

I completely understand people not wanting to buy online; especially the need to see the fish for themselves and the fear of shipping. And, of course, the expense.

However, I think there is often misunderstanding of how those who import or breed Betta for a living function. And the difference between their care and that of most pet stores. If a pet store loses a Betta it is no big deal to their bottom line as they have other fish or such to make up the loss. If an independent online seller loses even one Betta is a big hit. So diligent care is of utmost importance.

Betta from online sellers are generally cared for better, kept cleaner and fed better than the average pet store Betta. Their environment is kept the proper temperature without fluctuations. Often they are in filtered tanks...which are a minimum of one gallon....and not cups. One seller I know has a filter and heating system; another does water changes every three days. Both feed a variety of live and frozen food. To be fair, this is most likely true of the pet store Betta before the pet store gets them.

In addition, online sellers are knowledgeable about Betta and supportive if you have questions or concerns. And how many pet stores contact you to make sure everything is okay?

All of the above is why I will always buy my Betta online.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

I must say I have been v impressed with buying online.

Had read about it, and been DEEPLY sceptical, mainly because of the thought of the fish whizzing about by courier, trapped in a sealed container. But then I realised how illogical that was. Here in the UK, every fish that is bred or imported, is brought from the breeder to the point of sale by multiple trips via courier. Then they come home with us in the same way.

And who is most invested in making the conditions least stressful? The breeder/importer? Or the rushed warehouse staff and badly trained shop staff?

Also rather impressed by the customer care. One point of contact. Named email, not a generic one. Late night response on one occasion. I sent at 10pm, not expecting a response for 24hrs or so (standard business practice, esp over Xmas) and I got a response within an hour! Yes, they sent the wrong fish, but the willingness to rectify has been outstanding. I’ll definitely be buying like this again. Although not for a while. No more tank room!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

And because of all of the above you have TWO more beyond gorgeous males living in your house!!! I know you are having so much fun right now.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Haha! yes indeed!

Kham is proving to a be a little dense. Bless him.
So far he has managed to find 1 New Life Spectrum pellet out of 4 meals of 2 pellets each. I don't think he is used to filter flow, more space, and food that moves about.
But I expect he will learn.

Valentine, on the other hand is busy teaching me where he wants the pellets dropped, and what angle the light needs to be for him to see them. Much higher IQ!

Meanwhile Tagawa continues to laze about ruling the roost with no sign of anything other than relaxed calm. I STILL haven't seen him flare, although he head butts snails occasionally...


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

And *finally* the log has arrived. 
I have sanded it, but am doubtful it is smooth enough. 



Kham thinks logs are *scary*

Nope - just seen him run the gauntlet from end to end. Brave boy!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

It's a nice touch to the tank, but our boys are a little shy of new toys. I have never purchased a hide for my tanks because I tend to do things the hard way. I make them from river stone and smooth pebbles, or colored shale that has been smoothed down by the river after being in them for hundreds of years, In my larger tanks I use driftwood I find and boil the them for hours so there is nothing going into the tank, I do the same with my finds of river rock and glass. I like walking the rivers and streams here at home. I always find something of interest that I can use right away or i can save for a future tank. In Ben's tank the jungle he has gives him enough places to hide and rest. I once had a betta tank with a hide that he got stuck in and I lost him, I'll never do it again. the openings in my put together hides have larger openings at both ends. No problems. and no fins are torn. You did it right by sanding down the rough edge's and I'm glad he enjoys it, and like I said it looks very nice in the tank.


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## Brutalcookies (Jan 6, 2019)

More likely means the tank is cycling well


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

OK, so time for an update on Valentine and his little 12 inch cube 5 gallon (UK gallon) tank. I will update Kham's latest news elsewhere.

Soooo.
Firstly, the diatoms have been a right pain.
The snail I put in gorged himself on them and then keeled over and died. Which disturbed me tremendously, and I am now very wary of expecting anything to eat a lot of diatoms!
Frequent water changes seemed to help with this.
But as soon as I eased off, I got masses of filamentous brown algae (sorry, no pics of that! lol). So I went back to the overly frequent water changes.

The riccia fluitans flourished, right up until the point that it got covered in filamentous brown algae, and I chucked it. Valentine loved that plant, so I have replaced it with some watersprite cuttings from the big tank, which seem very happy, are growing, and Valentine may even prefer.


I have upgraded the filtration to an oversized HOB by allpondsolutions. Very pleased with it, and Valentine seems to prefer this water flow. It has much more filter media, which is great.

My anubias gracilis nearly died, but has recovered and has sent out several new leaves.
The miniature javas survived the diatoms, but are slow to grow.

The moss is flourishing, although I have to keep pruning the bits that have got covered with the filamentous brown algae.

Don't get me started on the carpeting plants. Have gone through 3 different ones, all supposedly 'easy', and all I can say is that they die easily! The only ones to have hung on are the dwarf sagittarius, which keeps on sending out runners and new sprouts, but as soon as the older plant gets to a certain size, it just seems to melt.

This is where we started:


And this was yesterday:


What a problematic tank! I have now reached the stage where I have some S. repens, some pogostemum erectus, the dwarf sag, and a couple of baby crypts just shoved into the substrate, waiting to see if any survive. If they do, then they will become my carpet plant of choice! haha! Fortunately the tank sits on my work desk, so I can monitor it, and fiddle and tweak regularly. I think that is the main reason I kept the brown filaments from taking over.

I moved two Amano shrimp into the tank a couple of weeks ago, bless 'em. Since then I have only seen one once (spot the invisible shrimp in the middle of the pic?:

and I have seen one shed shell.
Nothing else.
They may as well have just disappeared into a black hole, which is challenging in a 12 inch cube!
However, they must be working hard, because things are definitely looking less fuzzy.

I am keeping up with the frequent 25% water changes - nearly every other day - in the hope that this will reduce the nutrients for the algae.

But the biggest issue is, I think the light. It may have been what is causing every problem. It came with the tank, and I don't think it is up to anything more than being a basic desk light. I have a Finnex Stingray on order, and have my fingers crossed that things will actually start growing once it is installed.

As for The Occupant... well, I will let Valentine speak for himself, I think.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

LOOK!

This is what I have to put up with!
Terrible, isn't it?

Plants just dropped in and left there for DAYS while they decide to melt or live.
It just isn't acceptable, is it?


At least She sorted it out eventually. And set up the new filter. AND remembers to feed me occasionally. Not often enough though. 
3 meals a day is NOWHERE near enough when you are as magnificently handsome as I am.
See?


And don't start on about fin biting.
She made a real song and dance about it a few days ago.
As if I would!
Took her AGES to work out that it would be impossible for me to bite my dumbo ear, cos I can't reach. Silly human.
So then she decided it was that fin split I had ages back, just growing back in.
Duh!
I could have told her that.

This is my log. With me in it.

I have to spend a lot of time in it, so that the shrimp can't trespass. I will eat them when I find them. But they are completely invisible! And they hide. All the time.

Is it tea time yet?


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

@RussellTheShihTzu or any other moderator who sees this
Would you be incredibly kind? 
Would you move this thread into Journals, and re-name it 'Valentine's tank'

THANK YOU!!!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

This is a great journal, I really enjoy reading it. He really has a flair as a story teller. LOL. Great looking tank. The plants look very healthy. And tell Val, That tummy look is in for the females. They love a guy with a little belly. :wink3::BIGwinky:


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Original name : *Algae in cycling tank*
Original location : *Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats, and Accessories*


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks @Veloran !


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

@Old Dog 59 he’s certainly up to a *fighting weight* isn’t he? Haha!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

I am sooooo annoyed!

I have had pond snails spontaneously manifest in Valentine's 22 litre tank.

Have been extremely careful not to move any plants, furniture or even equipment from the pondsnail tanks (the 200and 57 litre tanks) into the non-pondsnail tanks (the 22litre and the 70 litre).

Yet here they are. Tiny and translucent at the moment, but marching confidently about. I can see 5 on the glass as I sit here typing. No bigger than a millimetre, any of them.

So poor little assassin snail has yet another tank to patrol. I am moving him from tank to tank at the moment, keeping on top of the other 2 tanks - although I think the kuhli loaches are dealing with the pondsnail babies in the 200litre.



Other than that, the tank, and Val, are doing OK. Haven't seen the shrimp in weeks, but the tank stays spotless and their food disappears, so they are in there somewhere.

So poor little assassin snail has yet another tank to patrol. I am moving him from tank to tank at the moment, keeping on top of the other 2 tanks - although I think the kuhli loaches are dealing with the pondsnail babies in the 200litre.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Sadly, we have lost Valentine.

We went away for a week, came back yesterday. A kind friend had come in every other day to give pre-dispensed food quantities to each tank.
Everyone seemed fine when we got back late last night, except that Valentine was a bit sluggish in arriving for his food (usually he was like a piranha!). I put this down to the change in feeding routine.

So i got up bright and early to start the water changing and testing routine, with breakfast all round, only to find the little lad dead.
Black gills.
Ammonia, nitrates and nitrite all fine. PH at 7.6! It is usually 6.8
He had lost a bit of weight, but not skinny.

Close inspection reveals a horrific amount of food in a drift under the s.repens.

So as far as I can tell, my pre-dispensed food portions were exceeded, fell rotting to the bottom of the tank, and Valentine still lost weight. 

The other three tanks are fine.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Oh! Blue I'm so very sorry to hear about Val. He was such a beautiful boy. I know how hard it is to loose a bright spot in our lives.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks. I must say I am rather down about it. 
Keep wondering whether a water change last night might have saved him?
Pointless speculation, but of course. I didn’t even realise he was ill last night.

I have done a 90% water change and vacuumed all the excess food out.

Tomorrow, I will test the water again, do another water change, and them move Tagawa out of the 200litre and into the 22litre, where he can reign in peace. He isn’t enjoying the biggest tank, even though he is putting on weight in there! 

Val’s death has just reinforced my dislike of small tanks. This wouldn’t have happened in a mere 7 days in a bigger tank. Ideally need to save this 22litre for hospital tank, and replace it on my desk with one twice the size - for my own peace of mind.

And I am not looking forward to having to ask my fish feeding friend what happened. So kind of her to feed them. So sad it went wrong. Going to have to look into automatic feeders for next time.

One positive outcome though! The shrimp have emerged. I put them in a couple of months ago, and haven’t seen them since, though I knew they were still around, because the tank got as clean as a new pin. The 90% water change had them out and exploring, so they seem well. Maybe Val was terrorising them. He certainly used to boss me around!


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## OrchidxBetta (Mar 18, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. From your pictures, Valentine was amazing, clever and beautiful.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

22 L is around 6 US gallon. I have never had any problems with my 5.5 gallon tanks. ( well except for algae) but they aren't hard to care for. And they are a good size for a single betta. Really it depends on the attitude of the fish. I know when I tried Harry in a 10 gallon, he went absolutely Bonkers. Did not like it at all. It really stressed him out. I put him back in his 5.5 gal. and he settled right down and started to eat and patrol his tank again. When he was in the 10 gallon he went to the side of the heater and that is where he stayed for over a week. He wouldn't eat. So back into the 5.5.

You know I always recommend to any one that asks about tank size I prefer to start with a 5.5 with filter, and heater, and lots of plants. 

I know you really take care of your boys and the community in that gorgeous 55 Gal. (or should I say the 200 L.) There are to many what if's to run through your head. Like What If I never went away. What If What If What If. Don't do this to your self Blue. We get past it and move on I'm sure Val didn't blame you for him getting sick. He gave you a lot of love for his little body. and returned the love and care you gave him. Believe me When Ben died I did the exact same thing your doing now. A month later I couldn't stand not having some little guy to care for. In came Little Bee, Not to take Ben's place, but to fill a void in my heart.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

@Old Dog 59

it is interesting to watch my 4 (now 3) bettas in the different sized tanks. Tagawa has been in the 70 litre and the 200litre, and was happiest in the 70 - until I added a shoal of purple rasboras. They were too active for him and he took to the plant cover to avoid them. He is now doing exactly the same in the 200. So, for him, it seems less about tank size and more about peaceful tank mates. He also had problems with one cherry barb, but was fine with the other cherries and the black neons. i expect he would be very happy with ember tetras too, but anything zippier is too intimidating. In the 200 litre he is using maybe 1/4 of it, in 2 v heavily planted zones. He avoids the open spaces completely. i will move him into the 22 litre tomorrow, and see how his behaviour changes.

Kham on the other hand LOVES the 70litre. He had a small meltdown the day I moved him from the 57 to 70litres (possibly due to the hyperactive rasboras!). He bit off half his tail overnight, which was a shock for everyone! But then he calmed down, came out of hiding, and his tail is on the mend. He swims everywhere in a cool street cred kind of way, owning the entire tank, competes with the rasboras at dinner time, and ignores them the rest of the time.

No Name (Clint for short) is very happy indeed in the 57litre cube. He rules, he patrols, he ignores the ember tetras. All my tanks are heavily planted, so the plants are a constant. good shelter. good surface cover. Limited lines of site.

I'm moving towards seeing a 40-60 litre tank as being my personal ideal for bettas. I think that is around 10-15 US gallons? Obviously, other people feel differently, for their own perfectly valid reasons. But as far as I can see, plants, cover and peaceful tankmates are key to their comfort, and *my *comfort improves when I see them in a bigger tank too... They can stay in a small corner, if they like, but so far no one has wanted to.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Had to do some shopping today at Home Depot. I needed 1/4" x 1/4" molding to finish the new kitchen counters. I stopped by Petsmart to waste some time and found a beautiful 75 gal. But when I started to price everything out, Well I'll forget it for now. (or at least until I'm done with the house. They had a Top Fin 55 gal starter kit with filter, heater, tank, and glass canopy and LED low lighting. for $112.49 (88.2755 GBP.) I could manage that and the stand for $79.99 (62.7716 GBP) but I still have to wait until after I get the house done. Which should be before July 8th. I'm hoping to get the new shower in by then. 

Anyway I'm also looking for a smaller community tank say around 37 gal (140.7 Liter) I need some place to put Gilford and a few others with in the next couple of months. LOL. My wife will go bonkers but Oh well. Hay she got a new house and a lot of improvements. Only fair I get some new tanks.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Haha!
I think you have done amazingly well to manage with only small tanks for the last few months.
Must have had severe withdrawal symptoms!

More shenanigans in Val(RIP)'s tank.
I woke up to find the HOB filter making some really scrapy odd noises, so dismantled it and rinsed the media and sponge, and Lo and Behold! A shrimp was in the first chamber. Not that I suspect him of making the scrapy noises. A rather skinny small shrimp. So I don't think it is the same one that I kept seeing over the last two days, which is fatter looking and more prosperous.

No idea how long the twitty creature has been in there - or how she was surviving.

I managed to get her out, and she is now back in the tank and 'disappeared' again. I think she also had a scrape on the top of its back, and there was a leg stuck to the filter media. And her antennae are snapped. 
No idea whether she had just been in there a day, or a month, but she will be much happier back in the tank.

Yesterday I was still seeing pH of 7.6 despite that 90% water change - which worried me.
So I did another 80% change
and then this morning I did a 50% change and brought in the fresh water from the 200litre that Tagawa is currently in. If the pH has dropped to 7 or below, I will do just one more change, for my own reassurance, and then bring T across into this 22litres. He won't need much acclimation, will he? Since most of the water will be from his current tank


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I can believe the shrimp survived in the filter, living off the gunk being brought in. Must have gone up the intake on a wild ride. 
Any idea whats causing the high PH? I know when I test mine in Little Bee's tank it has always been between 6.4 and 6.8. With the low PH I think it has to do with all the plants. And even with the weekly water changes it never goes above 6.8. In Gunny's tank The PH remains at 7.0 and it has been that way since I set it up almost 5 years now. In the new tank with Gilford Guppy the PH is around 6.8 to 7.0 and with his water changes I do add PH 7.0 boost. I don't know why my PH fluctuates in two tanks and not the third.

I'm going stir crazy without a bigger tank. But than again I have 5 separate rooms in the basement that are heated so I can always move down there. Ginger won't be able to find me there and I can live like a hermit. LOL. I'll only come up for food. I can see it now her calling down the steps saying I made you something to eat come and get it. I'll climb the steps take it out of her hands and retreat back to my lair. LOL
I know it will take some doing and like I said I have to wait until I get the house done, and things put away. I hope to give myself a great Christmas gift with a new 75 gal. That would be nice.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Wow! 5 basement rooms... that is aquarium heaven.
Provided you can get the tanks down into it.
I'm seeing a comfortable (swivel) arm chair in the centre of each room, and a different aquarium on each wall...

The high pH in the 22 litre is doing my head in.
The food detritus was vacuumed out on Sunday.
All other water parameters are perfect.
and todays 50% WC has made no difference whatsoever.

So Tagawa's move is postponed again.

I have checked the tap water (again) and it is coming down the pipe at 7.
All my other tanks are sitting happily at 6.6/6.8, presumably on account of the plants and indian almond leaves.

What is also bothering me is that the Seachem pH alert is showing 6.8, but the API test tube test is showing the 7.6.

I'm trusting the API and intend to throw out the Seachem in tank thing suction alert.
Comparison tests between the 4 tanks and the tap water, and the 22litre show that something is definitely going wrong with the 22litre, while the others are consistently at 6.8.

I may have to pull the root out, which will mess up the whole arrangement. But it would eliminate one variable.
But roots are easy to replace.

The only thing that has prevented me from doing the root upheaval already, is my invalid shrimp, and the fact that I know pH is measured in the order of 10x. So a 6 is 10x more acid than a 7, and a 7 is 10x more acid than an 8.

So it may take several more water changes to sort.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I have used the API kit for years and never thought I had any problem with PH. After getting the SeaChem alerts I tested against them. I have also tried the SeaChem test kit for PH and both the alert and the test strip from SeaChem are the same. MY API PH test today showed 7.6 when the Seachem alert showed 6.8 to 7. NOW which is right. I would say the Seachem.

I'm sending a note to API customer service and asking to clarify the difference. However The boys don't seem to mind the PH. and Gilford Guppy is alive and kicking. so I still trust the SeaChem. 

And yes 5 rooms to the basement and 10 rooms plus two bathrooms in two floors. We are having so much fun getting this house done. ( I mean that in a sarcastic way. ) But we have made great head way every day. Today it was curtains and finishing the kitchen counters. I finished the first guest room last night so at least my little sister and her boyfriend will have a place to stay when they come over the 4th of July holiday. The cats are starting to settle in now that they can find their furniture, and food dishes. We only have one major hurdle left and thats the first floor bathroom. We are putting in a new shower. and what a nice size we got. 60" X 34" enough for the two of us at one time. Now that's one way to save water. LOL


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

yay! pH is back where I want it - which is 7, with catappa (indian almond) leaves already in there to bring it down a little more.

I ordered some amano shrimp online this morning, to go into the 200litre, and on a whim ordered a few yellow dwarf shrimp which can to into this little 22litre. with Tagawa. he won't bother them. he wouldn't say boo to a goose. and the thought of Tagawa's magnificent red and teal/blue with yellow shrimp pleases me no end.

the shrimp should arrive tomorrow and can have a day to settle in, while I continue to monitor the pH. Then Tagawa will join them in his own bijoux residence.

The tank is on my desk, so I spend plenty of time with it. Have noticed that I am deliberately not looking at it at the moment - missing Valentine a great deal. So the sooner it has new occupants, the better.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I'm glad to see all is coming together. I know how tough it is with missing Ben. When I laid out the office I made sure the tanks are on the far side of the door to the kitchen and dining room. When I get more set up I'm putting in shelving units that will hold the weight. That way everyone will be in the same place come feeding and water changes. The larger tanks I intend to get will be in the basement lair. I Think I will hold off on them until cold weather sets in. We have heat runs in each room of the basement but I don't know how much heat they will produce. No sense in setting up tanks down there if the heat isn't enough. 

I spend a lot of time fiddling with Little Bee's tank and Gunny's tanks I can roll over to them and just sit and watch them. I guess I should pay a little attention to Gilford Guppy, however he just swims mindlessly around the tank and hides in the plants. He is a cute little guy and I have looked into getting him some friends but he's going to have to wait until the new baby comes. Hope it's soon. Ma Betta says they are getting big but still haven't colored up yet. and It would be really hard to sex them until you can see what you need to see to tell. So Gilford Guppy is being a big help in the cycling of the tank and soon he will have friends and a much bigger tank to swim in.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

So sorry about Valentine. I know how well you take care of your charges.

Just for future, there's really no need to feed fish if you are going to be gone fewer than 14 days. I've done this many times with a variety of Betta, community and ADF tanks with no issues.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I didn't know that. We have a couple of days coming up in Aug. and Sep. that I was looking for some one to take care of the fish and the cats. The cats I can put extra food and water down for but worried about Little Bee, Gunny and Gilford. We would only be gone at the most 5 days in Sep. and 2 days in Aug. It's a real good thin to know.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks @RussellTheShihTzu
It was mainly the ember tetras and the green neons that I was twitchy about leaving for a week without food.
The irony is that Val was always a bit... er... chunky... and could probably have run on his hump for a month!
Will just bite the bullet and not feed them next time.

Interestingly, the pH was back up this morning.
Very frustrating.
I took the resin root out and did a water change.
Still high.

Getting farcical now.
Will monitor v carefully (twice a day) til I have this sorted.

The shrimp have arrived - and v cute they are too!
Careful research last night has confirmed that dwarf shrimp are very tolerant of a wide pH, so I was happy popping them in. They are tiny! Lemon yellow and only half an inch long. But they seem v happy already. Chomping enthusiastically.
The amano have disappeared into the 200litre. Wonder when/if i will see them again. They are perfect invisible little butlers.

Oh, and judging by the enthusiastic romance going on in the 200litre, Big Red (cherry barb) is about to become a Dad again (and me a Grandma!!!). At this rate, I shall be rehoming some cherry barbs soon.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

OK, so I may be onto something with this dratted high pH.

Have been reading and reading.
Have done repeated water changes, removed the resin root decoration, wracked my brains... Removing the root has made no difference whatsoever, so it can go back.

Every water change causes a lovely drop in pH, but within 24 hours, it is back up to 7.4-7.6

Then last night I came across an excellent article on how to naturally raise or adjust the pH of your tank.
All the usual suspects were mentioned, from catappa (IAL leaves), driftwood, peat in the filter, removing the root cause of the problem, etc. etc.
And then a short little section about adjusting the oxygenation of the water.

Apparently, high aeration will push the pH up a bit, and low aeration will increase the acidity - which must be one of the reasons why slow moving waters are often more acidic than fast moving ones.

And the penny dropped! Just before we went away for our week's hol, I turned the flow up on Valentine's outsize HOB filter, because I knew he wouldn't be getting the usual frequent water changes, and I wanted to increase the filtration.

Now this is an outsize filter anyway (suitable for a 70+ litre tank, in a 22litre tank) and I switched it up to max.
That is a heck of a lot of aeration.
Anyway, I didn't turn it back down when I got home, on account of Val's death and me wanting to keep the filtration high.

But I have now turned it right down and will keep checking the pH to see what happens.

To be honest, I am now thinking that *IF* it was the extra aeration pushing the pH up, then it wasn't likely to be a contributing factor in Val's death. That was probably the excess food. Either him eating too much, or the water turning briefly toxic. 

In other news, the yellow dwarf shrimp are a DELIGHT. They are happy, busy, and soooo cute. I cannot believe I have not had them before. There are 10 of them in the 22 litre (enough to maybe breed in future) and there is usually around 5 or 6 in sight at any time. Busy, busy, busy. They have even brought the amano out of hiding, and he is now part of the group. The second amano is still playing hard to get, but we shall see if that changes in time.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Oh, and I have spoken to my fish feeding friend, and the over feeding has been explained.

I have 4 tanks. The other 3, I dispensed the perfect amount for 1 meal into a little glass ramekin dish, and left 4 dishes beside each tank. then when she came to feed the fish, all she needed to do was empty a ramekin dish into the tank.

For Valentine's tank, I left his New Life Spectrum food in front of the tank on my desk, and said 'Just give him 4 pellets'. Just 4.

Only what she did was ignore the New Life food and instead reached around the side of the tank to find the King Shrimp food, and gave him 4 of the 1 cm long King Shrimp pellets each time she visited. That is 16 cm of food over the week.

That's enough to give any betta terminal indigestion, isn't it?


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I'm glad to hear you have found the PH problem. Aeration does funny things to water. However it would be the very last thing I would have checked also. How is the PH now that you turned it down? You know you have about talked me into putting shrimp back into my tanks. I think I might try them in the new setup with Gilford Guppy. The tank has cycled and I'll wait a couple of more weeks to make sure they have enough to eat. And I'll leave them in when the new baby comes. I would say he would leave them alone but one never knows. I should like to try them in with Little Bee also. He seems quite the pacifist. 

I would think by the sounds of it Val ate himself to death. I know when Ben was alive I really had to watch how much I was putting in. Ben was a very big pig and would eat every thing in a few min. Now I did feed him 4 times a day but each feeding was only a few flakes at a time. Little Bee is fed 3 times a day and seems happy with what I give him. He is growing. He was smaller than any other betta I had purchased but very active. He is now almost twice the length or about the same size as Gunny. Every time I sit and watch his tank he is swimming happily in and out of the plants patrolling his tank. When he sees me watching he will come to the front or side I happen to be on and stop what he is doing and flair. (as if to say Hi boss i'm working very hard.)


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

More fun and games 

The pH is almost certainly (how can I ever be 100% certain?) due to the HOB filter and the excellent oxygenation. I am down to 1 pH test a day, and number is holding steady at 7.4 which is higher than I would like, but is rock steady unless I do a water change when it dips a bit before returning to 7.4. I would rather live with that than start mucking about with chemicals.

Tagawa is now IN. Day 2. Too early for him to be properly settled, but he seems quite happy.
Hasn't noticed the shrimp, despite them being very active and bright yellow.
Nor has he got the hang of the new feeding routine though. I think he always used to rely on the rest of the tank occupants to rush about and signal Feeding Time. He is very slow to realise that I am offering food. Unless he sees it actually land on the water within an inch of his nose, he will miss it completely.

Shrimp are happy. They have demolished an entire mulberry leaf and are working on the banana leaf piece and the catappas now. Water has a healthy peaty tint, so the Catappa are helping with the pH. Of course I don't want it too soft now, or the shrimp will suffer.

Oh, and the Finnex Stingray died.  less than 6 months old.  am wondering if it was the journey - had to buy it from an American seller and import it, because I couldn't find it here in England. So was it handled roughly by courier? Did that shorten its life? Pointless speculation. Return postage cost would make returning it a nonsense.

Anyway, this time have bought closer to home.
Much internal angst over quality, plant illumination needs, size of tank, need to use it as a desk lamp too...
Decided to go with Fluval, for the App and AWESOME controllability from anywhere with a wifi connection.
Then went for the Fluval plant spectrum LED nano.

Arrived today.
Incredibly easy to set up, and... dare I say it... very sexy!
Just a minimalist black tile, perfect height, perfect size, and up and running in 5 mins with 24 hr timer, dawn til dusk and blue night light, all adjustable.
The light is currently golden sunlight, but will cool and soften as evening draws in.
Very natural looking!

Had enough of 22 litre tank aggro for the moment.
Have told it, and all its occupants, that they have to buck up and run smoothly for a while.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Golden afternoon light using the automated settings
No Tagawa in sight, on account of him snoozing in the hornwort at the back:



And shrimp spotting - the new work avoidance technique:


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

It is a pretty tank. Really the PH is not that high. at 7.4. For most tropical fish anything between 6.8 and 7.6 is acceptable. (unless your a purist and then it has to be 7.0 exact.) LOL Things that will change and Raise the PH are some plants and even some rocks. When Ben's tank dropped to 6.0 I decided to go the old fashioned route and add some rock chips that were known to raise the PH. Add so and wait 48 hours test and if still too low add a few more. wait 48 hr. test and either add or subtract a few. Once it got to 7.0 I left it alone and tested every couple of days to make sure nothing changed. Did the trick.

Sounds like Tagawa and Little bee should be housed next to each other. They both like their hides in the plants. Except Little Bee is a chow hound, he knows when I reach for his food no matter where he is He's ready to eat.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Gorgeous tank you have!

I never advise messing with the pH. Fish can adapt to steady low or high pH but not fluctuating and not all pH adjusters are equal. My pH runs from 7.8-8.0 and I've never had any pH-related issues.

I wish I could remember where I read that pH is no longer the issue it was when fish were wild-caught. Now it depends more on the pH and hardness, etc., of the tanks in which they were bred.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks guys 

I must admit that this tank gets the most attention and gives the most pleasure, when it is not stressing me, of course! haha!

Can't believe I have never had a desk tank before. Wouldn't want to be without it now.

Incidentally, Tagawa has now worked out the new food system and is permanently hovering just under where I sprinkle his Bug Bites. A glutton is born.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

And here he is. Settled in and busy getting the hang of the new domain.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I bet he is having a ball exploring and patrolling that new home of his. It doesn't take too long for them to figure out where food comes from. He is such a beautiful boy.

I know Little Bee plays games when it's time to feed. The left side of the tank has a spot where the current doesn't wash away his food and I place it there for him. But if he's lazy and on the other side of his tank I drop the food in there and he has to chase it down. (he enjoys it) When Ben did that he would just wait until it came back around, (not Little Bee he hasn't learned that trick yet.(one of these days he will)) LOL


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I swear, sometimes it takes me a while!!! I've been meaning to post this all day.

About the Finnex: Does it have a one-year warranty? If so, you could send then an email and ask if they would replace for cost of postage? They might ask you to cut off the power cord and send them a photo. That's what TruAqua had me do instead of returning my "new" filter that wouldn't start.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Drat. I wish I had thought of doing that with the finnex. I threw it out 2 days ago and the dustmen (garbage collectors) came yesterday.

I’m on a bit of a purge at the moment. We have a box of ‘just in case’ electrical leads, plugs and adapters. I am determinedly clearing out stuff I can’t see us using again.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

I’m getting v good at this work avoidance thing

https://youtu.be/t_E4tEAsTvc


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## VBPETS (Jun 21, 2019)

I love your tank! And this thread was so helpful to me with my newly cycled tank! He's so pretty!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

VBPETS said:


> I love your tank! And this thread was so helpful to me with my newly cycled tank! He's so pretty!


Thank you! That means a lot to me. :grin2:


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

What Me work. Are you round the bend???? LOL Great video by the way.


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## VBPETS (Jun 21, 2019)

bluesamphire said:


> Thank you! That means a lot to me. :grin2:


I've had the same saga with my newly cycled 20L future blackwater tank that was for my Betta given to me by a client in a 2.5 gallon. I'm a pet sitter (we do fish, too, BTW. So sorry about Val :sob: I always tell people you cannot trust friends and family for the most part. They don't have the experience and judgement to know what they don't know and OFTENTIMES they think they know better. Usually they do something COMPLETELY ridiculous or wrong you'd never dream of....leaving you wondering "WHAT the HECK were they THINKING!?". One time a client had a neighbor feed her lovebird. Instead of using HER FOOD, the idiot brought INTO HER HOME his large sized wild bird sunflower seed which a small parrot cannot even crack open and the poor bird died of starvation.)

Anyway....I acclimated him in the 20L and was all excited....and the ph matched THAT DAY 7.0....in but then realized my PH was bouncing so he went "back" into a 5.5 gallon where I can control the parameters much better. The prior owner used a certain bottled water with a high ph, too, so that's what he was used to. 

My tap PH is 8.0! (the same as his former bottled water)....But I used Fluval Stratum which brings it down to VERY VERY low around 6.4 if that. AND some botanical to make matters worse LOL. From Tannin Aquatics...very nice BTW but DON'T ORDER ANY LOL. 

So the challenge is what the heck do I do with water changes? I can't dump a bunch of 8.0 into a 6.4 environment. 

Been all over the place during the learning curve. :frustrated:

Started with Eco Complete but had a HUGE high ph. Removed that and replaced with Fluval Stratum (ugh). THEN I had attached plants to (and used for hardscaping) a bunch of Seiryu Stone THEN learned it raises PH. So I had low ph Stratum competing with the stone. 

I just added a very large seiryu stone back in but I don't like the idea of that because it's sort of artificially changing the ph and what happens when it all levels out if it ever does. 

*Sigh LOL. I've been thinking about changing substrates once more but still don't know what to do about this tap water 8.0. * *I guess I assumed the 8.0 combined with the Stratum 6.5 would "average out" to 7.0.* Sort of hoping it still does but what about water changes!?

Ironically just before you posted about aeration, I had put a new air stone in there just to see if I could get the tank to adjust faster - never thinking it would RAISE the PH again hahaha. Not too bright of me considering that air stone would HAVE TO GO once the Betta went back in. :doh!:

Anyway, I think it's all the woods, plants and uncertainty of a new tank, not whether it's small or large so don't feel bad! 

I think this betta is going to have to live in his nice little 5G and the 20L I set up will just have to be for a tank of fish who LOVE 8.0 with a new neutral substrate!!

Probably a rookie mistake worrying more about the cycling than forethought about the simple yet big problem of PH!

The entire thing started with inspiration from this youTube guy who did a beautiful blackwater tank for one betta with the same substrate and plants. But he never mentioned his PH and I never asked facepalm. 

Also ironic I used to be a pet store owner and never had all this nonsense with 20 tanks of fish! WTH LOL.


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## VBPETS (Jun 21, 2019)

Again...I am SO glad you posted about flow. I JUST NOW realized I have my filter on max flow Aqua Clear 30...PLUS using the "new" aeration bubbler....adding to the PH war! BOTH which will have to change to accommodate the Betta so it's pointless!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Oooh FAB posts. And I really feel your pain!

I have begun to think that the best thing I can do is to Stop Bloomin’ Testing the pH! Haha!

But no, I need to keep an eye on it.

Actually, you’ve reminded me - and I had completely forgotten this, til now - one of the reasons I was so determined to do a fishless cycle with this 22litre tank was because I had chosen Tropica Soil substrate. Love this stuff. Lightweight. Dark brown. No need to rinse. No dust or cloudiness. Excellent plant growth. But it says on the package that it may lower the pH in the first weeks, and to do 50% water changes to prevent this. More changes than are usually recommended while cycling... i thought that should have cleared up months ago, but maybe not.

As for your pH issues, please don’t assume that my pH nonsense means that *you* shouldn’t aerate. I suspect there are lots of factors involved. My tap water is hard. Limescale furring up the pipes. Also nitrates of 40 out of the tap. UK treatment processes and chemicals. I’m sure they each play their part.


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## VBPETS (Jun 21, 2019)

Oh boy. At least my only luck is decent KH and GH. JUST within the acceptable parameters. And ZERO nitrates out of the tap OMG that's crazy. 

I won't be aerating when and IF the fish ever goes back into this 20 long so ....meh. 

I bought the aerator because it was CUTE (haha) and I thought you could make it very fine bubbles but you can't anyway...even with a flow control added to the hose! Another thing I saw on youTube but the guy had a completely different massive planted tank with plants and fish who LOVE FLOW!! 

Oh the money we waste! 

https://smile.amazon.com/Eheim-8599...rds=eheim+air&qid=1562333956&s=gateway&sr=8-6

Anyway, have a nice day obsessing about your tank!

BTW I read that none of these substrates "normalize" until they use up all their "nutrients" or "wipe out" so I don't think it's any time soon for either you or me!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Whoosa pretty boy then?







Pity about the floating (and sinking) food in the last pic. May try and edit it out. lol.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

That he is. great pictures of him.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Yellow shrimp babies!

Just three weeks after they arrived in the tank, there are shimpy babies. 
Only about 3mm long, and nearly invisible unless they are swimming against a dark background, but they seem happy enough zipping around the moss and the 'wood' root.
Have seen 3 so far, but I suspect that is the tip of the iceberg.

What does a person do with excess shrimp? Give them away to fish stores?
Now I need to read up on shrimp reproduction and baby shrimp requirements.
And how the heck am I going to do water changes without sucking all the little brats into the siphon? Gauze cloth cover? filter sponge?

I'm a Mum again!!!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

You do have quite the quandary going on. It would be a good thing to use Gauze or a filter sponge on the siphon. However that brings into play the vacuuming of the substrate. You would never be able to get the larger excess food off the bottom. But than again that's what you have shrimp for (the cleanup crew). Your tank is in amazing shape and all of your fish feel comfortable enough with the parameters to breed. That says volumes about your care. As far as what to do with the excess shrimp. (MMMMMM dinner comes to mind with cocktail sauce.) LOL


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

LOL

Within an hour of first spotting the babies, I saw Tagawa take a snap at one (missed by a mile!), but there is always the chance he will pick them them off slowly.
He has never taken the slightest interest in the adult yellow shrimp (all of an inch long, but still growing a bit).
So he is obviously too wimpish to actually take on a ferocious grown up about 10% of his own size  but he obviously thinks that babies are fair game.

I had prawns for lunch, yesterday, sitting at my desk next to this tank and all my cute little yellow shrimp. It was an uncomfortable experience!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Now that is so funny. You and Tagawa having the same lunch. LOL I bet that intimidates the shrimp. Now if Tagawa would man up and devour them maybe the older ones would back off. LOL

I've been visiting Gilford the Guppy's tank daily since I noticed his fins are being attacked by Morry. They for the longest time were best Buds. Now Morry has taken to fin nipping. I noticed today that he was chasing Gilford and it abruptly stopped when Gilford stopped and turned to face him. Gilford got right up into Morry's face and Morry hi tailed it for the back of the tank to hid in the plants. Gilford may have lost finnage but he hasn't lost the fight. LOL Morry is such a bully. And Gilford likes the fight.


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## DaceyJ (Apr 9, 2018)

bluesamphire said:


> LOL
> 
> Within an hour of first spotting the babies, I saw Tagawa take a snap at one (missed by a mile!), but there is always the chance he will pick them them off slowly.
> He has never taken the slightest interest in the adult yellow shrimp (all of an inch long, but still growing a bit).
> ...


😂 Shrimp scare tactics. 
I have a betta in a 5g by my husband's chair and he was sitting there eating fish and chips. He set the bottle of tartar sauce next to the tank and I just looked at him and asked "Is that a threat?"

When I had my brackish tank I had a bunch of ghost shrimp in there that always bred like crazy. I just used pantyhose (lol) over the siphon to avoid casualties. My dragon goby would occasionally munch them by accident when they would sit on his food, so I never really worried about having too much. Maybe Tagawa will learn from example by watching you. 😁


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

I can just see it now, Fish and chips, and prawns with cocktail sauce and tarter sauce sitting next to the betta tank. What a way to intimidate your boys. LOL


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

DaceyJ said:


> 😂 Shrimp scare tactics.
> I have a betta in a 5g by my husband's chair and he was sitting there eating fish and chips. He set the bottle of tartar sauce next to the tank and I just looked at him and asked "Is that a threat?"
> 
> When I had my brackish tank I had a bunch of ghost shrimp in there that always bred like crazy. I just used pantyhose (lol) over the siphon to avoid casualties. My dragon goby would occasionally munch them by accident when they would sit on his food, so I never really worried about having too much. Maybe Tagawa will learn from example by watching you. 😁


Well, if they sat on Gobi’s food... haha!
Wonderful images.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You don't need to worry about feeding baby shrimp as yours is a fairly mature tank. If you have an HOB check inside the filter as, even with a filter sponge, I found some babies. I never worried about vacuuming. What I did was keep my finger poised over the output part of the vacuum. If I thought I saw a baby being swept up I just closed off the opening. Never did get one, though.

You can have 100 shrimp per gallon so I don't think you'll be terribly overcrowded terribly soon. ;-)


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Brill!

And I don’t think we will have a population explosion too soon. I watched Tagawa snap one up today, and i suspect he has been busy.
Yesterday, i saw several babies. Today, none. 
RIP babies.

Clearly, his hunting skills just needed a little fins-on experience. 
Will have to do a daily roll call for the adults, in case he gets a taste for yellow nigiri
But I’m hoping he stays too wimpy for that, or he could be moving home, yet again!


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

Oh that poor little man. You put him in a new home with temptation. It's like Adam and Eve. only this guy loves shrimp. he isn't doing anything you didn't do in front of him. Shame on you MUM. LMBO.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Yes indeed.
Mea culpa.

I am a bad, bad, mum!


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

Just a v quick pictorial update.

The new light is making the plants grow like weeds, which is great.

Still got green hair algae on the moss balls and the weeping moss, but nowhere else. The yellow shrimp seem to ignore it, it’s up to me to keep on top of it.

My cheap allpondsolutions HOB filter gets noisy if the water drops by a millimetre, which I find annoying.

The shrimp have now produced 3 spawns, so have little pale yellow shrimplets at different growth stages. Tagawa only gets one if it swims within an inch of his nose.

Assassin is doing well.

Will post 3 pics.
1st is 2 shrimplets on a leaf (with baby pond snails)
Second is an adult shrimp and the assassin
Third is whole tank. Definitely time to do some plant pruning. Haha.

Water change later today, so will do it then.


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## bluesamphire (Nov 20, 2018)

And another pic of after the water change and hornwort hack back

The shrimp always get more active after a water change. Have installed a new filter in back left corner, to eventually replace the hang on back one, because I cannot stand the noise much longer. It used to be silent, but now it bubbles and spurts because of an airlock in the intake pipe that I cannot get rid of. Suspect a faulty seal around the flow adjuster.

Unfortunately, the new filter is white. Need a tall plant in front of it asap! hopefully it will go sludge green as soon as possible. LOL.


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## Old Dog 59 (Nov 11, 2018)

The tanks are looking sweet. I'm sorry to hear about the filter problem. I have one Aqueon 10 I replaced with a Top Fin 10 only because the flow rate was so high in Blue's tank. So I put in a Top Fin 10 but left it run wide open and put a piece of filter sponge across the discharge with a rubber band. the tank stays well filtered and the flow is redirected to strait down and doesn't produce much current. Blue is happy and is able to eat, with out having to chase his food all over the tank. 

The only problem I have with algae in a tank is in Morry, and Gilford's tank. I know it's because of the lighting, and when I can I will take care of that problem. But until then I scrape the Green hair algae off the plants and scrub down the sides to keep the algae at bay. I have also noticed some brown algae on the plant leaves in all the tanks so they get scrubbed off too. I do that about once a week. Keeps me busy and allows me to bother the herd. They kind of think OMG he's playing with my plants again. I keep telling them it's better that than putting them in a transition bowl and doing a 100% cleaning. (they all agree) LOL


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