# Help with a new tank



## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

I was at Petco going to get bird food and cat food and ended up going by the betta fish. There was a pretty blue fish who seemed to be having a little trouble with his fin. He looked so sad in that tiny little plastic cup. I gave into an impulse and came home with a new fish. 

I got a 1 gallon bowl (before I knew better) with a small plant (not live as I have no green thumb whatsoever). He seemed pretty happy but lately he seems a bit lethargic. It got hot outside so we've turned the air conditioner up more and I think his water is getting too cold. Theres no room for me to put a thermometer or heater, so I need to get him a new tank now rather than later. 

I cant get an expensive glass tank, but someone told me I could get a critter keeper plastic tank and it would work just as well. Is this true? Plus it would have a top, since we have cats and I dont want one of them attempting to put a paw in the tank. If not does anybody have other suggestions? I'd like to get a tank thats about 2.5ish gallons. 

And as long as im posting: any recommendations for a heater for a small tank like that? and maybe a filter? Any help for this poor starting betta owner would be great. I love my betta and if all goes well, i'd like to get another in the future. 

 sorry for being so long winded.

Here's my baby, Typhoon. We normally just call him Ty.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

A 3ish gallon Kritter keeper makes a fine beginner tank. Get an adjustable heater (25Watts) and a cheap thermometer. Look into sponge filters; good for Betta. Don't forget water conditioner. Prime is very good. Read the stickies on basic Betta care.

Good luck. Welcome to the forum.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

What is the temperature in the room he is in? Or what is the temperature in your house?
How long you have him?
Do you use water conditioner?
How much (%) and how often you change the water?
Do you acclimate him when you change it?
Is he still eating ?
Any other symptoms besides that he is lethargic? Is he swimming at all or just all the time laying on the bottom or hanging on the top?
You can buy 2.5 gall and a heater. But you need to figure out what wrong with him? If it temperature problem or something else.
Here is a lot of tips on betta care and heaters. 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=142066
Hallyx i didn't see your post but i think all those questions are important too. He might get sick, and it might not due to the temp so i think we need to find out...if it a temp issue or something else


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> A 3ish gallon Kritter keeper makes a fine beginner tank. Get an adjustable heater (25Watts) and a cheap thermometer. Look into sponge filters; good for Betta. Don't forget water conditioner. Prime is very good. Read the stickies on basic Betta care.
> 
> Good luck. Welcome to the forum.



Thank you! I read some of the stickys but I always love having someone talk(write?) directly to me. There is so much diverse and different info out there and its nice to be able to post directly to someone... You get none of that in the pet store and it drive me insane. 

I'll make a note of sponge filters. I do use a water conditioner, and distilled water not tap water. We live in the country and have well water so I refuse to use tap.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> What is the temperature in the room he is in? Or what is the temperature in your house?
> How long you have him?
> Do you use water conditioner?
> How much (%) and how often you change the water?
> ...



I keep him in the living room, which is warmest. Our house is normally at 76 with the air conditioner on(which hadnt been too often before this last week). It was warmer before that since wasnt as hot outside. But now its been at 72ish since its been 90degrees outside. So i'm worried. I felt his water and it was colder than it had been. (*side note: we have a big pool outside so i'm a decent judge of feeling water temp)

I've had him about 2 1/2 months. This is the first time we've had our house this cold and I didnt think i'd need a heater till winter came. 

Yes I use water conditioner. The people at Petco tried to tell me I didnt need it if I was using distilled water, but I got some anyway. Its called Splendid Betta Complete Water Conditioner. 

I'm not sure how to do the %...but I change maybe 25%ish since I skim the water to keep any excess food out. But thats probably every couple of days. Otherwise I completely change him at least every 5 days. 5 is the longest I go before changing him. 

I try to acclimate him. He probably doesnt get to sit as long as he should, but I get grabby kitty paws by him if I take too long. 

Yes he is still eating. He isnt as enthusiastic as he used to be though. He would swim back and forth any time you came near his bowl, but now he just swims over and sits by the top till you put it in.

He swims some. Not as much as he used to. He hangs out by his plant a lot. Not really in a specific height..though if I had to estimate i'd say by the top more.

Ask as many questions as you need. I definitely want to know if maybe its something else. But it all started once we made our house cooler.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Looks like you actually doing everything right way , you are acclimating him and water changes are good. The perfect temp is 76*. Many people will say 72* is cold but i have betta that live in the doctor office and they live in 72* so i still think it not the temperature that is the problem. However some bettas like warmer temperature then other.
When you go buy bigger tank (2.5-3 gall is perfect )buy the heater and it really better to but an adjustable one. Check out the link i posted you will find some recommendations on the heaters. 
Also , so are you using distilled water? DO NOT USE distilled water , it not recommended and it doesn't have all needed minerals for the fish. So if you are using i would recommend you to get spring water, not purefied water spring water and start doing 25%-30% water changes every hour about 4 water changes. Meanwhile go to the pet store and let them check your water to make sure it safe for fish and you can use it for him. It's really better to use just your tap water with a water conditioner. So for now since you don't know if your tap water safe just buy spring water which is better then distilled, and do changes until you know your tap water is fine.

When they give you the reading ask them to give you actual reading instead of saying that water is fine.
What kind of water conditioner are you using?
Also for the spring water you don't need to use water conditioner.
What kind of food you been feeding him? When you go to pet store try to get frozen blood worms they are really good for the immune system since they have more protein in it. I think he need to be strong now since there is something bothering him.
Is there any visual symptoms at all on the body?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you will buy 2-3.5 gall tank , i personally like to do regular water changes and do not cycle the tank. It just what you prefer to do. For me and for many people it easier to just do water changes without filtration. My bettas live pretty long so i don't want to change anything in their care and prefer to recommend what i do . I have a few bettas that are 2.5 , other 3 and one is i don't know any more about 5 years old.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Well its nice to know that im doing things mostly right. Im not sure its the temperature, but thats my best guess since it all started when we made the house colder. But im gonna need a heater and bigger tank come winter anyway. If that doesnt fix it, then i'll have to post again. But I can't see anything else wrong with him. 

Its a 45 minute drive, but we do have a Petsmart, rather than the Petco in town. I found two tanks I like so far, leaning toward the first one :
http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...riums+&amp;amp;+Bowls&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11100218&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

Will look into a heater first, then a filter. I was thinking about this heater if I can find one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00106X8QG...UTF8&colid=1ANLYZ39JFG7F&coliid=ITNV4MRK2ODB3

He was just changed yesterday. I had no idea that water wasn't good for him. He seemed alright. He gets more movement when I change him. He still explores after I change him. I guess I better find a brand of spring water. :/ 

Does Petco test water? The other pet stores went out of business a while ago once they came to town. 

The water conditioner is called Splendid Betta Complete Water Conditioner.I got it from Petco. 

I feed him Tetra BettaMin Tropical Medley. Where can I get the other food for him? (maybe I just didnt look enough at Petco?)

I dont see anything else wrong with him, besides the Ventral Fin(? think thats what its called) on his one side. But he was like that when I bought him. He uses it, but we've noticed it doesnt move as fast as his other one. 

I always had problems with the % since I added the conditioner. So it would be nice to not have to. I have no idea on how to start cycles, I would like to just keep changing him like im doing, but im not sure how good i'll be able to do that with a bigger tank. 

I feel like I need the beginners dummies guide to betta tank care


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

I've been looking through the disease section and have been driving myself crazy trying to figure out if there is anything else wrong with him. 

He has some brown kind of under his gills and it goes down his belly and a bit by his fins on his belly, but he has always had that. I am now staring and trying to determine if the brown has spread any. (I dont think it has)

But im now being an overly worry wart. (and being laughed at by the others in my house saying that its a fish not a baby  )


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Is it possible for your to post a picture? I would think the brown can be his normal coloration especially if he always had it. The clear picture will definitely help.
What you don't want to see is when you Shine the light on the betta’s body: if it looks like it is covered with a fine gold or rust mist, then it has velvet. But i don't think/hope he has it because if he would have that untreated for a few days he would show more symptoms like darting,scratching the body on objects ., more coloration on the body, clamped fins.

Is it possible for you guys just raise the temp in the house up to at least 75*? See how he doing.

Yes buy spring water and do regular changes.But do 2-50% and 1-100% water changes a week. Or you even can do one full water change every about 4 days. 
When you switch him from distill water to spring water do it slowly. Like i wrote before do 2-3 or even 4 water changes with spring water (about 30-50%). Just to acclimate him slowly to the new water.Not sure what is the difference in pH or other stuff that in the water so that is why i recommending do it slowly , so you don't shock him with the difference 

Also when you do full water changes you can just let water sit in the room temperature for about 24 hrs and it will be the same temp as his. It just convenient for me at least and i don't have to worry to shock him with the drastic temp difference.

I think any pet store can check your water. Of course when you bring the sample do not put water conditioner in it.

I am not familiar with the water conditioner that you are using but if it removes Clorine,Chloramine,ammoia, nitrate,nitrite it fine . Just decided to google it and it's fine to use as dechlorinator when you use tap water.

If the store will tell you that your tap water has ammonia in it(some people has the problem) buy water conditioner Prime by Seachem, it the best water conditioner and helps in the situation if your water has ammonia in it. Unless you will decide to use spring water. 

Food: If you will go to the store take the ice with you so you can buy him frozen blood worms. Usually you can find it in the refrigerator in the store. If you will not buy frozen ones you can buy 
http://www.petmountain.com/product/carnivore-food/11442-511293/hikari-freeze-dried-bloodworms.html?
utm_source=googleproductads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword}&gclid=CMrszPToobkCFcie4Aod4V8AbQ

Best recommended pellets are:
http://www.bigalspets.com/betta-formula-1-mm-semi-floating-pellets-50-g.html

http://www.petco.com/product/116563...ne-_-1483889&gclid=CIGoktToobkCFc-Y4Aod9AcApg

Freeze dried bw you can use only a few times a week as a snack. 

2.5 gall tank you don't have to cycle if you don't want to. If you don't cycle it you will need to do 2-50% and 1-100% water changes a week. Or again you can just do one 100% every 5-6 days. That is what i do. And if you don't cycle don't buy the filter. Filters are not necessity for bettas.

If betta will refuse to eat or will change his behavior even more(more lethargic, laying on the bottom, hanging on the top more, darting, scratching, clamped fins, more visual symptoms on the body) then there is definitely a problem that i hope with more help we can figure out.

The food that i gave you the links of you can find at the pet store but the stores i go they always out of it, and i have to wait another shipment. But if you have to drive far away may be they can call you when they get it or you can order on line. I have all of them. I just alternate between them. NLS ones sinking to the bottom very fast, the Omega one is not.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Sorry, Ty hates cameras of all kinds. He gets sassy and runs behind his plant. I got him to sit still for one shot (aka I got very lucky and clicked at the right time. And it was his other side I really wanted you to see. I think hes more brown there. Ugh. I'll try again later. 




LIMITED SUCCESS! He loved to outsmart me. But thats most of his other side.




I'll post my answers next post.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

We turned the air conditioner off so I will set my alarm so I get up before it gets turned back on in the morning. The house has already gone up too 77 and it should be 80ish by the time I go to bed.
(He did move around and come see me when I went to try to get his picture, so thats nice. However he always used to make me bubble nests, this is the first time that he hasnt. I changed him tuesday. He had one before I changed his water)

Hopefully the spring water isnt too expensive. His water is normally sits out at least 24 hours. Its probably way more than that cause I tend to clean him right before I go get refills. 

His conditioner does that, though i'll probably upgrade to something better (i believe our petco carries Seachem Prime). I really would like to use the tap water. We already have a ton of gallon jugs for distilled. I have no room to store more for spring water.

And pellets are better than flakes? (and yay its at petco. Petco is only 15 minutes away so its great if something is there) 

Also(your gonna get sick of me pretty soon): i've been reading up on heaters but cant seem to find one. 

I had finally decided on one and then it said it fried someones fish :shock:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+11368&pcatid=11368&r=414

Do you have any actual links to a heater? 

I tried looking the Elite up on amazon but I dont think I found the right one.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Sorry I have so many questions. I was misled and told it wouldnt be too hard. I just really want to give him the best care that im capable off but feel pretty lost on everything. I wish there was a class on this. I havent felt this lost since I tried to put on makeup seriously for the first time. *sigh*


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

That Hagen Elite 25W heater works fine for me. I have several in both 2.5g and 5g tanks.

What's wrong with your tapwater? Do you drink it?


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Which one?

http://www.amazon.com/Elite-6-Inch-...id=1377781685&sr=8-1&keywords=hagen+elite+25w

I had wanted this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Submers...id=1377781685&sr=8-2&keywords=hagen+elite+25w

But it seems like they dont have it anymore. It goes to an external website and brings up this one instead: http://www.petmountain.com/show_pro...m=Prod&utm_term=11442-511330&utm_campaign=PPC

I live in the country and get well water. Its hard water and we have a water softener. We dont drink it, we get bottled water and jugs of distilled water. We do use it to cook, but normally when its gonna be boiled like for pasta.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

All well water is different and some can contain heavy metals. You can age it and it will remove chlorine ans stabilized the ph but the only way to get rid of the heavy metal is the water conditioner. So you will need to use water conditioner.
I don't know a lot about well water , and i am not sure if Hallyx knows , so i did ask Sakura8 to look at your thread and give you more information about well water. I think you can use it without problem with the water conditioner. I am not sure if you still have to go to the pet store to check it though, but if you go to the store any way why not. Just take a sample without water conditioner in it and check it.
Again when you transfer him from the water that you are using to the tap water do a few (5-6) small portions water changes about every 30-40 min to make him get used to the new water. 

Your betta looks fine, i don't see any problem . I think the color that you was talking under the gills and on the stomach its his normal coloration . I think a lot of bettas his color has it. So its not a velvet that i mentioned before.

The second picture of the heater is fine. It for up to 5 gall tanks. The only thing it will not of course fit in your current tank, but it good for 2-5 gall tank
The temperature in your house -you don't have to have 80* 76* is fine for him.

With new heater you need to test it in a bucked of the water for at least 24 hrs before you put it in the betta tank. Let's you find out if it will hold a decent temperature , or if it defective. I saw a few post when new heater leach the fluid in the tank and harm the betta. So yes it good idea to test it. You know what you can do . If you planing to buy bigger tank you can just check new heater in that tank. If you not going to buy new tank then you will need smaller heater because this one not going to fit in your current tank


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

He was swimming around this morning while the house was a little warmer. My mom has problems with the heat though(its not good for her health), so the air conditioner had to go back on. I can still see him swimming around some though. 


Well am going to get him a new tank today. Just hashing out the details of where to put it. Gotta adjust some shelves. 

Im going for this tank and heater (though stopping at Petco first to see if they have an identical one), it shouldnt be too heavy so I can lift it:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11164158&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS%2FNo

http://www.petco.com/product/116663/Hydor-THEO-UL-Submersible-Aquarium-Heater.aspx

And im taking a water sample along to get tested (so hopefully Petco does it)
Also gonna buy him some of the Omega One betta pellets instead of the flakes I have now. And see what they have for blood worms.And look for some new decorations for his bigger tank. I'm thinking a floating log or the betta leaf hammock. Gonna need another plant too. I have a plastic one but its soft (i was feeling up all the plants in the store) gonna have to go with silk next since all the other plants had sharp edges. ...possibly the new conditioner too, but it may have to wait since this is already gonna be expensive. I'll probably have to just use up the one I have first.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you thank you thank you for the help. I really appreciate it so much! I was really clueless so hopefully this will make him much happier and healthier. 

I'd appreciate any more info on the well water and what would be best to make it safe. 

Thinking about picking up some epsom salt and aquarium salt, but im gonna have to go find a sticky about what to do with it first.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I like the tank. The heater 25 w is ok up to 5 gall.
Flakes are bad food in general. So yes buy pellets. Not sure if they will have them in stuck. My stores a lot of time out of them. So i always ask when can i come back or i just call them to find out if they got them. If they out of that kind of pellets that i told you , don't buy other ones. Just it better to come back or order on line. Really recommending to buy frozen blood worms too along with that freeze dried ones that i posted for you.


I don't recommend plastic plants. Buy only silk ones.
I think you ok to go with that conditioner that you have.
Always rinse all decorations before you put it in the tank. Hammock leaf has a thin wire down the plant which can rust and pollute the water. You can easily fix this by pulling the wire out before placing it in the tank.
If you will decide to buy a life plant let us know , you will need to quarantine them before you put them in his tank.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes i ask Sakure8 to help on your question about well water. Its good that you taking the sample to the store.

Very good idea to buy aquarium salt and Epsom. Epsome salt though you will not find at the pet stores. You can find it at any pharmacy department. It has to be pure Epsom(100% magnesium sulfate) without any additives, just unscented Epsom. Not sure or i forget if you mentioned where you live. If you in Canada or Australia they call it sometimes differently. I saw it was Dr. Teal's i think it was in UK.So you can check ingredient.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

We already have some epsom salt. Mom uses it for plants and as a foot soak. So we at least have some on hand. Just need the aquarium salt. 

I live in Wisconsin btw.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi WhitneyLin, Anhel asked me to take a look at your thread. 

From what I've been reading, you don't feel that the water is safe to drink? Do you know why? Does it have a lot of heavy metals or chemicals in it? 

If Petco will test the water, then the three things we really need to know are if there is a lot of chlorine in it, what the pH is, and how hard the water is even with the water softener, like a specific number. Sometimes at pet stores they'll just say "Oh, everything was fine, although your water was a little hard but that's all" and they won't tell you what the actual numbers of the results were.

I'm on well water too and also have a water softener. As a comparison, my water with the water softener is 0 degrees hardness or GH, meaning it's super super super super soft. My pH is 7.8 though. Without the water softener, my water is moderately hard with an API reading of about 13. On the Jungle Labs/Tetra strip test, I think this comes out to about 130? I honestly can't remember what my KH (alkalinity reading on the test strips) is but usually this isn't important as long as it's high enough that your pH is stable. I use this water to keep all my fish in and so far I have not had any problems. 

I would say that your water is most likely safe for fish unless you know you have a lot of contaminants in your water like heavy metals and very high amounts of chlorine/chloramines. Even then, you can usually make the water safe by using a good water conditioner such as Seachem Prime.

The cost of using spring water can get kind of expensive in the long run so if you're not comfortable using your well water for your fish on its own, you can compromise and use a half spring water/half conditioned well water mix.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Hello!

Im getting a lot of info second hand from my mother, but she doesnt know a ton about it(and I know even less since I was young when things were put in). I'll describe it best I can. 

We used to have a smaller well and that was the best water I have ever tasted. Unfortunately is wasnt very deep(and was pretty old) and ended up going dry. So we had a deeper well dug when I was about 10ish. 

The new well was really hard, so we got the water softener. Mom doesnt know what its set at, though I could try to go figure it out. We also have a filter thats connected under our sink and when we pull it out its very black. The water actually has a smell to it as of the past few years, almost like rotten eggs (so maybe sulfur? idk) But when you let it run for maybe 4 minutes the smell goes away. Thats the main reason why we dont drink it.

We have not tested it in a long time, so I have no idea what the hardness is at the moment. We have test strips for our pool that I could try to use to check the water?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You could try to use the pool strips. I don't know, I've never tried those although it seems like a lot of the readings would be similar.

Ah, okay, I think I totally understand why you don't want to drink the water. Does sound like you have a lot of sulfur in there, if it stinks so bad. Hmm. 

I really don't understand anything about water softeners except that they use salt to somehow take out the minerals that make water hard. There's been some controversy about how the salt in the water is bad but we actually did have our water tested for that and it had very low levels of sodium so that's not a problem.

You might be able to still use a half and half mix of Prime-conditioned water and spring water. You could also try filtering the water through a Brita filter and then using it for the fish. But, on the other hand, if you feel comfortable using the spring water and it doesn't get too expensive, then there's really no reason why you can't continue doing that too.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Did the pool test strip quick:

Got a like .5 on the free chlorine ppm
THe Alkalinity ppm is the high at 180 or 240. I couldnt tell which blue it was.
pH was like 8 (Out of 6.2, 6.8, 7.2, 7.6, 8, 8.4 were the options)
the total water hardness was 50. (lowest on the scale on the strip.)

These are all set for pools, so it isnt real accurate. But thats at least a ballpark. (though im not sure how well pool strips work in this water).

Maybe our water isnt as hard as I thought it is with the softener.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

50 sounds about right for water softener water. If your water was really super hard then a pH of 8.0 would be about right too. The numbers may be off slightly, a little higher or a little lower but that seems about right to me. 

As far as your hardness and pH, you're fine using the water for a betta. Using Prime or another good conditioner will take care of the chlorine. But again, if you don't feel comfortable using it and using spring water isn't too expensive for you, then that's fine to continue that way.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you very much for your help! I'm still gonna take it for a better test to be sure. But its a relief to know I should probably be able to use it. It would get way to expensive using spring water. Even just mixing it half and half would be better for my pocketbook, especially since im getting him a whole new setup.

Gonna head out now. So i'll hopefully be home with a nice setup.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

But remember still to use water conditioner.
Sakura thank you for fast reply. Is it any matter what water conditioner to use? Sakura is it better to use Prime? Or just go with the one that Whitney already using?


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Okay! Phew, that was work. Decided if he was getting a heater, he was going in my room. That was a lot of cleaning and rearranging. (however, if this goes well, I probably can rearrange again to get a second tank in the future  ) Had to go to 4 different stores but I got pretty much what I wanted. Had to settle on a heater, which sucks, but it should be ok. I couldnt find any that were adjustable for anything under 5 gallons. 

Turns out the water was great softness wise. It was soft or very soft on the tests (one from petco, and the one I just took while setting up). The pH was really as high as it could go, but I got some drops to lower the pH. Alkalinity was bad but I put in the conditioner. 

Gonna wait an half hour to an hour and then test it again. If both go down I can treat some extra water and start transitioning him to the tap water in his 1 gallon bowl. 
Letting it sit to see what the temperature end up being before I put the heater in it. Right now its at 81ish degrees, so says my suction cup thermometer. 
Not putting any gravel or plants in until I can test the heater overnight and make sure it works right. 

But otherwise I got him the Omega One Betta Buffet pellets. Gave him three to try for tonight. He really went for them once he knew they were there. He eats it and spits it back out, but keeps going back to it. Are they too big(they didnt seem so to me) or is he just taking pieces off of it? Also got him the Hikari freeze dried blood worms.(Apparently frozen ones are not allowed in our freezer says the big boss aka: Mom) 

Also got him a floating betta log, rather than the leaf hammock. Hopefully he'll like it.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

the pH and Alkalinity didnt drop very much. Hardly at all. The temp is dropping though its down to 78.

Guess I should have bough the better conditioner. Ugh. Now im kind of concerned about the levels in his 1 gallon if the conditioner I have is so ineffective.

I do have some Ice Mountain spring water (only like 2 bottles though) perhaps I should take out some of the tank water and mix in the spring water..?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok if you don't like the heater and if it not adjustable i would return it and order the one that you like before in that link. It up to 5 gall meaning you can really use it in your 2.5 gall and it adjustable. It hot now and you really don't need the heater now. Unless you want to check it fires and it will work great. What kind of the heater. I thought all heaters which is for tanks bigger than 1 gall were adjustable. You really can keep the temp in your house about 75-76* and you don't need the heater until you order a good one. It sucks though that the store don't have it.

What is pH reading? Bettas are very adjustable to the pH. And what is pH in the water that he is now? If it the same then he already get used to it.

Not sure why he is spitting out the pellets , he might be just adjusting to the new food. Do not give him blood worms yet. He might like tham and will not eat pellets. So wait until he will get used to the pellets first.

And do even smaller water changes then i told you. Do like about 6 small water changes about 25%. Just let him get used to the new water.

Now i am not sure about pH drops. Did Sakura told you to use it? I don't know if it good to use the drops to lower pH. And again like i said check the ph the water that he was in all the time and new water see what is the difference.

Sorry i think we posted at the same time i didn't see your post


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

It was $22 so not a huge loss since I dont think they will except returns(got it at a smaller shop, not petco). I was going to see how it works, but I guess I really would like an adjustable one so it can be lowered and it'll turn off. I could always keep this one as a backup just in case the other should ever break. (its an aqueon 10 w mini heater thats submersible) 

pH started at the highest 8.4..I'm not sure the second reading was even light enough to be the 7.8 it still seemed closer in color to the 8.4. 

His current tank is the opposite i'd say its at about the 6.8. So thats waaay to much to adjust to. 

Im trying to find a good water balance before I do changes. I was hoping to have his new tank settled at a good balance and then make some extra to do a 25% change. 

The pH in his current tank is a bit low actually while the new 2 gallon is way too high. The pH drops were recommended by several of the stores (I wasnt taking petco guys word for it, no matter how nice he was). I figured with it as high as the reading could go, it couldnt hurt to try it. 

I'm thinkin about emptying about half the water and putting in a couple of bottles of ice mountain spring water and seeing how that reads. Trying the half and half method. 

I guess i'll need to send someone out to get me some more spring water tomorrow and the Seachem Prime. The conditioner I got at walmart isnt doing its job. 
The seachem is really concentrated though. Does anybody know how much i'd need for 2.5 gallons? It was a small amount for like 50 gallons or something when I read the back.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i guess still test the heater though. 
Prime is 2 drops per gallon. Any size of the Prime bottle that you buy just use 2 drops per gallon. Do not afraid if you put a little more . Everyone on the forum saying it ok and actually i am using 4 drops per gallon. I am not sure why i am doing it , i just paranoid to put not enough i guess. 
Not sure if the Prime will really help the problem. I am not really experienced with all that readings and pH problems. I did message Sakura again to check on you, unless someone else will come along. But if you not sure about water do not put him in the new water. pH kind of big difference between what he has and new water . Not sure if it safe to put him in if it stay the same. Not sure if Prime will help more then the water conditioner that you already using . 

I hope half and half method will help .


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

I didnt enough water to fully do half and half. But it did improve with the spring water. Will have to experiment more tomorrow. My parents went to bed and with my bedroom right next to theirs, my constant in and out is waking them up. (they were slightly unhappy :\ )

Okay thanks for the Prime info. I might just see how much spring water is per gallon. Half and half may work good or maybe even 1/3 tap and 2/3 spring. Just to save maybe a little money. I guess i'll just have to play with it a bit in the next day or so. Ty isnt due for a % change till then. I've been very careful not to overfeed so I can not have to change him early.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

you can experiment may be in the less amount of the water?
How warm is your house during the winter i am wondering? 
Yes your are right don't overfeed it also very bad for bettas and they can get swim bladder problem from it.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

I'll have to see. Depending on the price I may just go with spring water for now and very slowly introduce tap water of maybe a couple cups at a time and keep checking the water at a later date. 

Fall is probably going to be coldest. We keep our heat off to save during fall. Winter gets cold, but the house normally stays at 75. I do have a fan that I sleep with though. So my room may stay a bit colder than that. Thats why I really wanted an adjustable heater so I could set it to maybe 80 or so.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Don't set to 80*. Set at 76*. I don't like to keep it too warm. There is more chance to get infections in the warmer temperature. You really don't need 80*.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

okay. Thank you. I will definitely try again in the morning.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Do you think you can return the pH drops if you have the receipt? Many stores should accept it, even if it is only for store credit.

A high pH is really okay for all but a crowntail betta (in high pH, hard water, their fins curl). It's actually better and safer for the pH to stay stable at a high level than to fluctuate a lot with the drops. 

If you really are worried about the pH, a safer way to lower it is to put either a piece of driftwood in the tank, Indian Almond leaves, or naturally dried clean oak leaves. All of these contain tannins that will soften the water and help to lower the pH.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

The packaging got thrown away, so probably not. 

Im not actually sure what type of betta Ty is. But with me moxing waters today the pH shouldnt be so high anyway. Im gonna try to mix half and half first and test it. If it doesnt work then I guess i'll go all spring water. 
I have a little time since I have to do percent changes and wait for the other heater to get here. 

...on a side note, Ty finally built me a bubble nest over night! I was getting a little worried considering it was the first time he hadnt done that. He started doing them the week after I brought him home and he kept rebuilding them right away when I cleaned him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

It cute when they build bubble nest but i don't want to disappoint you , but it doesn't mean anything. It just bettas natural instinct. Definitely meaning he is happy but never rely on it thinking that he is healthy because he made a bubble nest. 

I have 10 bettas and all my bettas ages 2 years old and up and not all of them had bubble nest. And some bettas can do it regularly or even once a year. Not sure but some i think will never build it.

The signs that betta might be sick will be change in the behavior, refusing food,any new visual symptoms on the body.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Well it was a change in his behavior to not build one. He tries to eat the pellets but still spits it out. But he keeps doing that, he has to at least like them otherwise I dont think he would keep trying. Dont know if I should try to break it in half tonight. Dont know how im gonna do that since its so tiny, but i'll try. 

But otherwise all is normal. And he's actually swimming around more now. The only things ive changed is his food and keeping it a slight bit warmer. Its a relief since his heater is going to take a bit to get here.

10 bettas? Wow. If I can keep everything good for Ty I would definitely consider trying to get another. I saw the cutest tiniest baby betta at Petsmart yesterday and I really wanted to get her.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Got spring water, tested it. The pH was between 7.8 and the 8.0. I dont think it was quite either. The alkalinity was high. Not sure why the spring water is reading so much like my well water. :/ So mixing it with the tap water wont help.

Is there no middle between the distilled and spring?! Cause my tap water certainly isnt. *cries* I just dont have any luck. Im so frustrated.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

The only thing we've brought up was mixing the tap water and the spring water. This may be a stupid idea but can you mix the distilled and tap/spring water? If they are on opposite ends of the spectrum would mixing them meet in the middle, where I need to be? Would permanently mixing with distilled water be bad for him? Like half and half or maybe 1/3 distilled and 2/3 spring or tap water.

I really need a way to bring down the alkalinity and the pH (though not as much). I dont really have the money right now to buy some natural way to bring down the pH. (spent it all yesterday on a new tank, heater, log to hide in as he only has a plant, and better food, blood worms, test strips)

Really need to get answers soon. Ty is gonna need his % changes soon, tonight or early tomorrow. Really thought spring water was gonna be my answer.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

The betta should be fine just need very slow acclimation. Please hold on for the instruction.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think your tap water is also safe to use.If both your tap water and the spring water the Nitrate NO3 are safe. You wrote that it reads 0

The Nitrite NO2 came up safe at 0 for both.

Your tap water very soft. But the spring water came up hard(150) to very hard(300). 

The chlorine was 0 in both. 

The alkalinity in the tap was high(300) and the spring water was about the same

You really can use the tap water. If it the same as your spring water then you can do the tap water.

Do you have a zip lock bag ?
So take a zip lock bag, put the betta with a small amount of his water he is in now.
Live a little big opening for the air.
Keep adding abut 1 tsp of the new dechlorinated tap water or spring water every 5-10 minutes for about 3-4 hrs.
Lets the bag float in the tank with tap dechlorinated or the spring water.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

My head is so confused. Sorry that you may have to lay it out for me. I've taken in waaay too much information in the past few days. 

He's currently in his 1 gallon with the distilled water. Do I fill the zip lock with some of that water and put him in it and then fill the 1 gallon with the new water? 
Then float his bag in it and slowly adding some of the water from the tank into his bag. 
Or leave the bag sit out by itself and slowly add water from the tank for the 3-4 hours and then float the bag in the tank for a bit before putting him the tank.

(cause otherwise I heard just do percent changes with the new water with him still in the tank, but that doesnt seem right).

He's not going in his new 2.5 gallon tank yet. I got a confirmation that his heater shipped, so im waiting till that comes so I can test it out in the empty tank.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Okay..re reading I think I get it... Some old water in bag with fish. New water in 1 gallon tank. Float bag in tank.Slowly add teaspoon of new water into floating fish bag.

Not hard once I get my head to stop spinning. lol I'd edit out the other post, but it wont let me.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

So I was curious and tested the half and half cup of distilled water and spring water I had mixed earlier and was gonna throw out now. 

I GOT PERFECT READINGS! *tears out hair* Everything was ideal. All this stress for nothing. 

Nevermind. I am gonna test a bigger supply overnight to make sure the readings stick. My mother has suddenly decided to be helpful(?) 

Tomorrow he shall be changed.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I want to repeat though, i think i confused myself.
Take the betta out from the tank and put it in the bag with his original water which is distilled water, live the bag a little open for the air
Fill up the 1 gall tank with the tap water ,DO NOT FORGET TO PUT WATER CONDITIONER
Let betta float in that bag, in the one gall tank that you fill up with new water
Add 1tsp of that new tank water, from one gall -to the bag every about 5-10 min for about 3-4 hrs.
If your spring water and tap water readings almost the same i would just use tap water with the water conditioner of course. See how he doing while you adding it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm trying to remember just why distilled water isn't good for consumption. I think it has to do with the minerals and electrolytes and something else really important have been removed but just what the exact components that get removed are, I don't know. 

So the mix that tested perfect across the board was distilled AND spring?


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Ok, thats what I thought after I sat and read through it. 

I'll see tomorrows readings on the half and half water. If it doesnt read nice im gonna have to just do the tap water. 
I gotta go to the store tomorrow and get more conditioner anyway (getting the good Prime stuff this time.) It'll be easier for me to watch it and keep up the 5-10 min addings when im less tired.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Prime seems expensive to start with but it goes a long way because it's so highly concentrated. 2 drops per gallon. It helps to get a bottle with a dripper spout or an eyedropper.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Sakura8 said:


> I'm trying to remember just why distilled water isn't good for consumption. I think it has to do with the minerals and electrolytes and something else really important have been removed but just what the exact components that get removed are, I don't know.
> 
> So the mix that tested perfect across the board was distilled AND spring?


 Yes! The spring was still too high pH wise and alkalinity wise. The distilled is a bit below where it should be on both. So I figured i'd try it and see if they meet in the middle. 

With the spring water mixed in i'd think that he'd still get the minerals and such.

Testing it again in the morning after it sits overnight in a larger quantity (about half a gallon this time). I just tested it in a small bowl that I used to take samples into the store.

May still mix a sample of tap water and distilled and see if I get the same results. 

But im finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That's good.  Hope it all works out for you and Ty. Haha, at first I thought fishkeeping was so simple, you know? Get fish, put fish in water. And then you start learning about how all water is not created equal. -____- But it's still fun and still worth it.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Thanks! I thought it would be simple too. Its some work to get it started the right way, but once I get it going into a routine it will be fine. I just hit a few more snags than others may have cause of country well water. 

I've gotten frustrated and confused. And have learned so much information in the past few days that my head spins. But I love Ty so much and its very worth it.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Because im super curious (and would like to save money on the over $1 gallons of spring water) I tried the mix of distilled water and tap water. It came out as good as the mix of spring and distilled! 
Got another bigger jug out to test that mix overnight too! Really hoping it comes out good so I dont have to keep buying the spring water.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Still don't understand why can't you use tap? Your tap test came out fine , almost as the spring. The only problem was the pH high. Or if you afraid at least test the mixed of tap and spring. I don't know i just don't like the distilled water.
Also he is spitting out the food. If he is acting healthy then he just adjusting . And i think since he never ate the pellets before that is why he takes his time. I was thinking take the gravel out so you can see if he is eating. The pellets sink to the bottom and he might eat them from there. I think if you take out the gravel it will be easier for you to monitor and see if he is eating . And also he can see them easier without the grave on the bottom. Just bought a betta for my coworker he does the same. He take the pellet and spit it out but trying to eat them from the bottom.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

The tap test pH and alkalinity were too high by itself. The spring water by itself tested almost the same as the tap. The mixing them didnt help at all since they had the same problems. Mixing either of them with the distilled brings down those readings. If the tap and distilled mix tests good in the morning, i'll be using that. 

He acts fine besides spitting it out. He didnt go for it as much tonight, but i think thats because i fed him too late and its darker by his tank so he was resting. 
Funny thing is this morning he kept going for the same piece, even as it was sinking. Once it hit the bottom he swam to the top to go for the 2nd pellet. I can try taking out the gravel on the one side where the hole to feed him is. Ill leave the stuff that keeps his plant standing at the back. Its worth a shot. I'll try it tomorrow when I change him.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Is he eating flakes that you have? If he is eating them try to trick him , give him one flake and one pellet. Good luck


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

He eats some flakes. He was never as eager for them as he seemed to be for the pellets. He really does go for the pellets, even though he spits them out. But i'll try it in the morning.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Got Ty sitting in his bag in the tank. He is quite upset with me. He keeps trying to swim for his plant. Poor baby. Im gonna hate these next few hours that he has to sit in the bag while I slowly add the little bit of new water in his bag. 

Though I havent gotten to examine him this closely in a while. His changing cup isnt see through. Takin the time to closely examine him, especially his fins since hes flaring a bit.

Also kept out his gravel, except for enough to hold up his plant. Then I can make sure he is eating his Omega One pellets.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Ty is in his tank(sadly not the 2.5 gallon yet) with the new mixed water and seems to be doing well. He is all over exploring (as I moved his plant and left out some of the gravel so I could make sure he is eating the pellets). 

The heater should come on tuesday (Darn holiday falling on monday so I wont get it sooner >:/ 

IF there are any more problems/questions i'll start a new topic.

I just want to thank you all again for the help! I would be so terribly lost if you guys werent here. You all are life savers! THANK YOU!!!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am glad he is doing well. So what are you using tap and distilled water or spring and distilled?


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

tap and distilled. 

I was reading up on betta fish diseases (bad idea) and got the bright idea to shine the flashlight on him. He has some deep red on top of his head that I didnt notice before. I am going to take his tank down, take the cover off, and attempt to maybe get pictures. As I read that velvet can also be rust colored, not just gold. 

I really hope he is just coloring differently and I didnt notice before since I never able to get a closer look at his head under a bright bright light like the flashlight. 

Until he's really eating I guess im gonna be slightly paranoid.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Make a picture. We can compare the picture to the one that you posted on 8/29 post #11.
Also if he would have velvet that is one kind of external parasites, he will develop more symptoms like darting, scratching his body on objects, clamped fins


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Took a TON! of pictures. For some reason he was a really good today and sat more still. So be prepared for a couple of image heavy posts. Took my flashlight and put him directly under a really good lighted lamp (so maybe it was the lack of needing flash that made him a better picture taker today)

I gotta transfer them quick off of my phone.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

First I got a few body shots. Not sure if he looks too much different there, but maybe to someone who isnt staring at him trying to find something wrong like I am will see something I wont. 

No light but the lamp and then the second and third I have the flashlight pointed at him.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

Okay by ton I meant 10. Ignore any slight reflection. We have a white doily under our lamp and I forgot to remove it before taking the pics. 

Head shots of various angles. I do have a few more.


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

I was trying to browse the internet to find good pictues of what velvet looks like...but couldnt find any good ones, especially on blue betta.

May post in the diseases sections since I see you are offline.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

i really think he looks fine. It his normal coloration. I think many blue bettas looks like that. How he acting? Is there any changes ? Don't worry that he don't make the bubble nest it not change to health problem.But is he darting, scratching? His fins looks fine the are not clumped . Is he less active? Sitting on the bottom of the tank longer then usually? Any other symptoms. 
If he don't have any symptoms just keep eye on him . He looks fine.
Still trying to eat pellets and spitting them?


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## WhitneyLin (Aug 28, 2013)

So I had made a topic on the disease section. But I posted the pics and they said maybe. Unfortunately (with a failed attempt at Walmart this morning) I cant get my hands on a good heater that would work for a 1 gallon. His tank has been consistently at 78 now though. So its not too bad. I did have a towel wrapped around his tank to keep it dark for him. Not only for the possible velvet though, I thought he might need some dark to de-stress from being in that bag for so long for the transition of the water yesterday. 

He is acting a little better this morning actually, after he has the tank wrapped up and dark. When I move the towel to check the thermometer he is normally near the front or moving around, opposed to sitting near the top by the back of the tank like he was doing.

I dont really think he's darting. 

I did learn at Petco that they are only feeding their bettas blood worms (perhaps this is common knowledge and im the only one who didnt know. Though when I asked a different day, the girl I asked didnt know.) He is still spitting his pellets, but I tried a freeze dried blood worm and he gobbled it right up.No wonder he is so freakin picky. So maybe he hasnt been eating as much as I thought (though I know he at least ate a little flakes). Would lack of nourishment or diet change like that affect his color to the extent of the pictures? 

Im going to do the Lifeguard treatment, as it says it can be used as a preventive as well.


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