# My Betta is Hanging Out in Corner of Tank



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Hi there,

I have a new Betta called King and he likes to hang out in the top corner of the tank all day. Is this normal? 

He is acting weird otherwise, breathing normally, etc.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I know I know most of King's history already but can you fill out the form so I can get a refresher and maybe spot something you didn't? Also have you done a water change since your last thread I commented on?

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Thank you for the reply. I knew that was too short of an email. My daughter called me as I was writing so I apologize for the lack of information. Here is the form:

*Housing *

What size is your tank? 5 Gallons
What temperature is your tank? 80 degrees
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

*Food*

What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Nutrafin Betta Food Blood Worms
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day - 3 worms in the morning and 3 at night

*Maintenance *

How often do you perform a water change? Every 3 days
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Betta Basics by Seachem - 1 lid full per gallon

*Water Parameters:*

Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH: 7 (my kit only test PH)
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

*Symptoms and Treatment*

How has your betta fish's appearance changed? No change
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He's hanging out in the corner of the tank and likes to stay there. He seems okay except he doesn't want to go anywhere else. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? This morning
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? No treatment 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? Not sure

I did a water change today around lunch time. I took out 25% of the water via gravel vacum. I filled up a bucket with 2 gallons of tap water and added 2 lid fulls of the water conditioner. I checked the temerature of the bucket water and it was 80 degrees. I think my tank might have been 78 at the time. I added about half the bucket (1 gallon) to tank slowly. Do you think this would too big of a change at one time? 

I'm so mad at myself if I did this wrong again. Here's a video of what he's doing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRadbemBAYU

Here's some pics of the products I'm using:









Here's a pic of him yesterday:


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

I should also point out that my desk is right in this corner too so he's basically staring at me


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=8633&pictureid=55809


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okidokey, and don't worry about it  You've done good.

So, the tank is cycling right now, right? Or did I not talk about that?
Either way, you shouldn't have to do that many water changes on a 5 gallon. You should definitely get at least an Ammonia liquid testing kit to see what might be going on. I can tell by his white tummy that he's stressed.

But don't worry! More often than not, Betta's get shy and skittish when first taken home. It will take him a while to adjust to his new home and see that he's actually got room to move. I would get him some more plants that he can hide in eventually, this will make him feel more safe since there won't be as much "open space" for bad things to happen, you know?

My extreme case, Rembrandt, took a whole month to finally eat and get used to his new home, but generally it's about a week and he'll be swimming around in his new home happily.

On the flip side, the water changes could also be stressing him out. I suggest you get a new turkey baster if you don't already have one so that you can suck out his poo during the week which will help the ammonia not build up to hurt him. And it's a lot less stressful than a water change 

Once your tank is cycled you'll only need a 25-50% water change a week. I say 25-50 because I know some people who only do 25 while others I know do 70% each week  So it's really up to you and what you feel would be good for him.

I think you should turn the lights off soon and leave them off a little longer tomorrow or all day tomorrow to help him be less stressed.

Oh also, are those frozen Bloodworms or Freeze-dried?


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Did I tell you that you're amazing?

I'm going to go to Pet Smart tonight to buy an ammonia liquid test. Should I buy some more plants as well? Will it stress him out if I plant them tonight? He likes the bushy ones. Is it okay that my tank just has gravel and rocks - will they grow okay? 

The bloodworms are freeze dried - should I buy others? 

Should I pick up anything else while I'm there? I want to do everything right - is there anything I can do to lesson the stress? 

I apologize for the millions of questions - just want to be a good Betta mom!


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Oh and should I do 25% water changes once per week and just suck up the poo with the turkey baster?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lol, just helpin' out is what I'm doing 

Okay, I need to tell you about cycling at some point to, I'll probably just PM you since it will practically be a novel >< There is also a Sticky on the Nitrogen Cycle in the Betta Care section I believe if you would like to check that out.

And yes plants will do just fine in gravel. That's all I had before I switched to sand and my plants were good  Bushy ones are great for him. I don't know if you've got any Local stores around you, I find my Betta's love Water Sprite, it's a floating plant, can also be buried, but my boys and girls sleep in their floaters and they love it! You can also float Hornwort which another bushy sort of stem plant. But I don't think PetSmart will have those, but it's worth a look!

And no, it shouldn't stress him out to plant them, he also might just be observing you as well. Betta's love their interaction with people and are very curious creatures, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was just watching you do whatever you do haha.

You *may* need some sort of liquid fertilizer down the road for the plants if they don't get all the nutrients, also some of the plants like Anubias and Swords and Crypts might "melt" their leaves when you put them in, but that's alright, they are just adjusting to your water. Generally they are grown out of water so it's kind of a shock to their system when you submerge them, but they will be fine given time.

As for Liquid Ferts, I use API LeafZone and it's worked fine for me, also SeaChem's Flourish is good, don't get Flourish Excel though, that's something different. If it say's "Fertilizer" on it, it's good.

Also I would only use the Freeze-dried stuff once a week. It's basically the equivalent to feeding a child chocolate all the time haha. It's packed high in protein but lacks every thing else a Betta needs. If you find it convenient, you could pick him up some Omega One Betta Pellets or New Life Spectrum Betta Pellets. Those are the two most recommended pellets on here since they aren't filled with things like wheat, grains and corns, the things Betta's will get constipated off of. But what you have is alright for now if you want to hold off.

And I think that's good for now, I can't think of anything else that you *need* per se. Oh, also for cycling which I will PM you about later, the more plants you have in there, the easier it is. Generally fast growing plants like Anacharis, Hornwort, Cabomda, Water Wisteria (I know Petsmart usually has those in tubes you can find), Ludwigia and Rotala are good plants to do for that. Basically if you've got a lot of plants you don't have to worry about levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate getting too high because the plants kind of suck it all up. But I'll talk more about that in the PM. However if you're on tight budgets or anything, don't feel like you have to get lots of plants, there are other ways to cycle it and he'll be fine.

For stress relievers, the best thing you can do is just keep the lights off, you can also throw a towel over it or something so that he's in complete darkness but he'll be fine like that.

Alright, I think I answered everything....oh! And make sure the turkey baster is new and has never seen soap, soap is very bad for our fish! They do sell the "Betta Basters" at Pet smart, it's literally the same thing just marketed for Bettas. However I never actually looked into what a turkey baster actually costs but I know the Betta sucker is only like $2.12 or something like that. But either way, it does the same thing lol.


EDIT: Sorry for the novel again


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

I sent you a private message but wanted to post here as well. Thank you for all the support you provide. I bet King would thank you too!

I covered his tank and took a peek inside - he's poking around more and looks happier. I also got a test kit from PetSmart and the Ammonia levels are 0. I got the master kit but it looks like a big job so I haven't test for anything else yet. 

I turned off the filter and he seemed to stop hiding in the corner. Do you think it's too strong? It's the one that came with the aquarium - maybe I should get a slower one? What do you think? Is it okay that I turned it off? They didn't have any good plants there so I'm going to purchase some tomorrow - also got a neat little house-type-thing to put in there so there isn't as much as open space. 

Hopefully he perks up by tomorrow!


----------



## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

It always makes me warm and fuzzy inside to see how amazed people are with how helpful this community is.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

XxxXnoodleXxxX said:


> It always makes me warm and fuzzy inside to see how amazed people are with how helpful this community is.


 ;-)

I just remember my time of fish keeping when I was still completely new and had no idea what I was doing, I had no one to help me there because I didn't know about forums and they always seemed scary so I just googled my information to try to find what I could do and now here I am. I always like to answer some of the newer people because I never had that help and now I get to help others, it certainly is a fantastic feeling and opportunity!

And yes, I also answered you back about the filter baffles and stuff like that. I forgot to say yipee for the new house thingy! lol I'm sure he'll like to explore that once he figures it out haha sometimes it takes them a while to figure out there's something new to explore in their tanks. Half my boys still haven't realize that they have new terracotta hides now!

Actually looking at Rembrandt right now, I've got no idea what he's doing but he keeps curling up in the middle of my Melon Sword which has it's leaves up at the moment since the light turned on only two hours ago. He's kind of reminding me of a mermaid....silly boy haha :lol:


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

I think you should get a side job in betta consulting! 

I have a few more questions for you  

I decided in a silent cycle. How many plants should I have for a 5 gallon? How often should I change the filters and how often should I do water changes? 

I bought the master test kit. Should I test during the silent cycle?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, I wish I could! I'm still yet learning about all the diseases and how to treat properly and stuff, but I'm workin my way there.

Yay Silent Cycle! If you can get a good bunch of Hornwort, Anacharis and water wisteria you should be set to go. I'm not sure what your LFS has but those those three are the most important because they grow very quickly. If you can get about 8 stems of Hornwort/Anacharis (In one bunch, that's about how much you'll get) that would be good.

It's not so much about how many plants you have, but what types so like the fast growers are great like I mentioned. You should be set with one bunch of each but of course if you wanted more, you could certainly do so, it won't hurt anything.

And getting plants from an LFS that has them in a tank is good as well because they will already be carrying some BB on them so it's a nice little kickstarter to your tank. 

And the filter media, you don't change it until it literally falls apart on you. What you do is that every week you take out the cartridge after you've siphoned out tank water, and swish it around in that old tank water and rub it to get the excess stuff out and then put it back in. It should last you a while if you do this and then when you see that it's getting old, get a new one and if you can stuff both of them in there, great. If not, you can take the old one apart (not over the tank because the activated carbon will get everywhere) and you can stuff the filter floss, the stuff that keeps the carbon in the cartridge, and the carbon into some pantyhose to keep behind the new cartridge so that the new cartridge will get a good dose of BB instead of having to start all over.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, my brain is still on the fritz lol

And with a silent cycle you can start on your weekly 25% changes. You can wait two weeks at first to kind of let the plants establish themselves. Like I said before, there might be some melting at first but they will grow back. But if you see anything rotting, make sure you take out the rotting part so that doesn't make the ammonia spike at all.

And with the kit, you can certainly test whenever you like, I generally test every week before a water change while cycling but with plants you'll most likely to never get a reading which is good! But of course if something is wrong, then your tests will pick it up, so once a week is perfectly fine


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Hello,

I woke up this morning, fed King some Omega pellets (2 or 3) and noticed that he's still cowering and I think his fins are clamped. 

Should I be worried? The water conditions are good - I switched the filter back on as well. Do you think he's still adjusting? I've kept the lights off and have put a sheet over his tank as well. 

I feel like an overbearing mother and maybe I'm worried too much? I think his color has paled a bit as well. 

Should I still buy the plants today? 

Feeling bad - just want to do the right thing


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

samanthacollier said:


> Hello,
> 
> I woke up this morning, fed King some Omega pellets (2 or 3) and noticed that he's still cowering and I think his fins are clamped.
> 
> ...


Don't worry! You're doing fine! He's most likely still adjusting to his new home, it took Rembrandt a month but he was my extreme case. Each fish is different so we'll have to wait and see. Certainly more plants will help, he might feel like the space is too big, if you add more plants it will make him feel a little more comfortable. Also baffling that filter will help him too, he might be afraid of getting blown around. With time though, he'll be fine 

So yes, you can still buy the plants today, he'll probably be a little stressed out when you put them in but don't worry, he'll feel better after. Heck, some of my girls still get stressed when I put my hand in there and I've had them a two months now lol


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

So I bought three more plants and most of the open spaces are filled up for except one now. King is still moping around. I'm waiting for my iPhone to charge and I'll add a picture. He's just staying in one spot near the top of the water. He doesn't look as bad as my previous boy but he definitely looks stressed. His belly is still white and he didn't want to eat anything either. I think his fins are clenched but not sure if that's the right term.

Should I just continue to do what I'm doing and see if he chills out over the next while? What should be my next steps? I feel so sad that he went from feisty to depressed. 

Is this normal? The guy at the pet store said he should be livelier but I'm not sure. I bought King from him and most of his Betta's were pretty sad looking. Do you think he's getting them from a bad place? 

King hasn't investigated the new plants or anything yet either. He's just chilling in the open space. I'll add pics soon!

What's your expert opinion?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol expert opinion, you think too highly of me! haha

It's very normal for them to kind of sulk around or hide in their new home. It might be a while until he comes around but he will come around  He looks healthy otherwise and it's alright if he goes without food for a while, he'll eat when he's ready. Just offer it to him every day and take out what he doesn't eat.

Did you baffle the filter yet? And yes clamped fins is also a sign of stress. It's very common for that to happen. It took Aero a whole two weeks to stop clamping his fins at every turn. And Rembrandt took a month month to eat! So don't worry  he'll perk up in time.


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Thank you for the kind reply. I'll just keep tending to King and see how he feels  

This is him:


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

samanthacollier said:


> Thank you for the kind reply. I'll just keep tending to King and see how he feels
> 
> This is him:


He doesn't look too bad  How's that little freckle of his doing?


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Here is a blurry pic of the freckle:










It hasn't changed at all - do you think I should be worried?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, yeah that's fine 

When I first saw it I thought it might be the beginning of Black Ich but it would have spread and become much more apparent by now so no, he's completely fine. Sorry, I don't mean to scare you!

Have you tried to play with him at all? He might like a little bit of interaction, if you just put the tip of your finger in for him to inspect, it might make him feel a little better


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Here's a dark pic of the tank - you can't really see all the plants - do you think that's enough? I'll take better pics soon


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah that looks great! What kinds of plants did you get? It certainly looks stuffed enough to do the Silent Cycle


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

King is dying.

He was laying on the bottom of his tank and I thought he was dead but I can see his gills moving very slowly. He's in a cup next to me right now. 

I'm so sad and I don't know what I did wrong. I feel like the worst fish keeper ever - how do they survive in these little glass jars but I keep killing them? 

I just put my finger into the top of the water and his gills moved very fast for a bit but then stopped. 

What should I do???? Should I just let him die in the cup? He's flopping around if I pick him up like he's basically dead.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh gosh, I'm sorry!

Can you test your tap water for ammonia? Also what temp is his tank at? I'm really sorry! It's not your fault though, it is completely possible that the place you bought the Betta's from is getting them from a bad source. I know it's really sad but sometimes it just happens and there's nothing you can do about it 

But it is not your fault! I've also had fish just mysteriously die on me. Before I found out about the silent cycle, or really how to cycle in general. I had 6 Cherry Barbs and they all ended up dying on me one after the other. If King does pass, I would keep any fish out of it for a few weeks and let the plants get established, so liquid ferts or root tabs would be needed to keep them alive since they wouldn't get any natural fertilizer from King.

Also, is he pooing yet? Eating at all? Fins clamped still? Color faded at all more? Any unusual spots on him? Bloated at all without eating? Itching against anything?

Darn, I'm really sorry sam  And yes I saw your message and commenting here instead.


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

He's completely dead now. Do you want me to post a picture? 

And thank you so much for all your help. I think I'm jinxed! King was super feisty and happy in the little bowl at the shop but he slowed down after about a day here. Kris, my fiance, is going to take a water sample to the shop and see what they say. Also, I tested all the water and it seemed fine? It read 0 for all the bad stuff but the PH level said 6 - is that bad? 

The temp is 78 - he's definitely very bloated - ???


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

pH level is 6 is perfectly fine when acclimated correctly which you did. My 10 gallon sits stubbornly at a 6.2 and all three are perfectly fine in there.

It could have been some late internal parasites if he became bloated, could have also been dropsy. Did his scales raise up? And yes I would still like a picture.

I'm really sorry Sam! I don't think I suggest buying from that guy again though since this is the second one to die on you.


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

You are the best. Kris was saying we could buy another one from a different shop - do you think we should wait?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Looks like some of his fins were falling off? And he might have had some internal parasite issues.

I would wait about a week, keep the plants going and see about a different shop. I don't think it was anything to do with your water or anything.


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Thank you again for all your help. 

I tested our tap water and everything seemed fine. Kris has gone to a different pet store to see what they say. The shop I went to had dead betta's in jars so maybe it was a parasite? Do they all generally get them from the same places? 

I just took apart the entire aquarium and put it back together, I tested the water and everything looks good. I washed out the gravel and let it dry in the sun. 

We might get another one today but I'm not sure. 

I'll post a pic of the set up - it's spaced out a bit better and I took out the skull - I'm thinking it was bad karma?! 

I'm going to name this one "lucky" or something along those lines in hopes that he does better!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Alright that sounds good and lol I don't think the skull is bad karma ^^

Generally Local stores will get their fish from one breeder or two, whoever has stock available to them. And not all of them get from the same breeder so it's worth it to look into other shops. You could probably ask where they get their fish from as well.

Yeah, if that guy had other dead ones, I'll willing to bet everything that it was internal parasites from the breeder they got their fish from.


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Kris brought home a female Betta, whom my daughter has called Star, a "Molly" fish and an aquatic frog. The lady at the store said all of them could be together in our aquarium - is that true? 

I spent an hour aclimatizing them and they are all hanging out in there right now - so far, so good.

Fingers crossed it all goes well!

I was thinking of possibly getting another tank to dedicate to one male betta and to cycle it before I get him. I'm in love with these fish!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh gosh, never take advice from a store 

Molly's are generally brackish water fish, they can survive in freshwater but it's not ideal. They also get up to 5 inches long which is too much for a 5 gallon tank. I know the 1 inch of fish per gallon isn't a good rule but that already breaks that rule.

Also i'm going to assume that it's an african dwarf frog in which they really need to have a group of at least two, they are very social creatures and they have been know to nibble or grab on Betta's fins that are longer.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Oh no! I told him to just get a Betta too. What should I do? Do you think the store will take them back?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

They should, if they don't then that's a silly store! If they don't you can either try to sell them to a different store or just donate them if it comes down to it.

That stinks though, sorry about that, I know it's not always easy when you bring something home and _then_ find out that it won't live happily. You could try to keep the molly, I've never owned one but I believe they are also big waste producers which would just make for a messy tank. I could be wrong on that one though.

I'm anxious to see the girl though!


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Hello!

So we gave the Dolly and the aquatic frog back no problems. The girl is very feisty and is still very active. She is quite bloated as I tried to feed the frog, Dolly and Chloe (Betta) at one time and Chloe ate everything quickly! 

She's still very active and isn't hanging out in the corner of the tank. I've posted the PH test I just took, I think the score is 6.0 - should I do a water change? The last time I changed the water, King died - I'm getting very freaked out about doing water changes now. 

How exactly should I do the change? Should I put some water in a bucket and let it sit all night until it's at room temperature and put in conditioner before I put it in? Also, do you think it's okay that I change 25% of the water only? I feel that it stresses them out... 

Here are some pics


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Looks like 6.5 pH to me, which is fine, that's what my 10 gallon and 2 3 gallons are at  your plants *might* not like it but they'll get used to it over time, there will be melting in that case as they get used to the water. However the Anacharis looks great in the that first picture and Chloe is absolutely adorable! I'm wondering if she is not actually a young male. That anal fin looks rather pointed lol

Either way, looks great and yes you can do 25% each week. Use a siphon to suck up any debris and make sure you siphon out the gravel as well, you can go around the places where plants aren't planted so you don't pull them up. If you get gravel stuck up there, pinch the hose to slow the flow, jiggle the siphon and the gravel should fall out ^^

Also if it's possible, you can just set the faucet to around 80 degrees, run a thermometer under it to get it around it and then fill your bucket. Use your conditioner and instead of pouring it in (you can still pour it in if you like) I like to take a cup and scoop out some water and gently set the cup in to sink a little and gently let the water slide out....I should get a video up of that since I don't explain it well lol. Either way it's less stressful for your fish, I use it for my older boys and my babies ^^ Works great!

But yeah, you could leave it out over night, you would actually be aging your water and if you let it set a full 24 hours, you wouldn't need conditioner but I find it so much easier to just use conditioner. But the thing is, even if it's room temp, that's still off from her tank water which should be around 76-82? 78-80 being ideal. Unless your room is heated to 80 degrees lol

I hope that helps some


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Hello!

I'm happy to report that Chloe is doing phenomenal. She comes out to say hello and I just like her so much! She swims around all day and sleeps in one of my plants at night. 

The thing is I'm getting really scared to do a water change as the other two boys died quickly afterwards. I'm hoping that she does okay when I do it. I'm assuming the boys died from a parasite as I was *so* careful about King. Chloe is from a different store and although I think the employees weren't that bright (recommending a frog and a Molly to go with her) I'm hoping the Betta's were healthier.

Chloe seems to be looking for food all day - is that common? I don't want to over feed her so i'm sticking to once a day for now. 

Thank you for all your help! You've been great!


----------



## samanthacollier (May 19, 2013)

Is it okay for her head to be so black?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It looks like it's her natural coloring! She's so beautiful! I'm super happy that she's doing well for you and yes any and all fish, if they are healthy, they will always look for more food.

You can split up your feeding if you want, half in the morning, half a night. I just do one feeding a day though, Saturday gets a big meal though because I'm generally home all day :-D

She looks very young, maybe just hitting 4 months of age right now, which is good! She's just going to be a ball of energy lol Also from what I can tell, she looks like a VT, if you were interested


----------

