# Breeding Yellows - genetics question...



## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

A friend of mine has recently talked me into trying to breed.

All in all I love the idea, have been doing a lot of reading and now am trying to get a nice pair to start off.

I have decided on what I want, I am not entirely sure if I can get it, but at least I have a starting place.

I want to breed long finned all yellow bettas. Pure yellow with no blacks, blues or pinks.

Needless to say, there are none in the US, I swear I tried to find them, they don't exist.

So I am now on aquabids and there are quite a few choices there.

I am finding many long finned half moons with truly beautiful vibrant yellow colors, but no girls.

I find lots of true yellow females, but they are all short finned.

I need advice, can I breed a long tailed male to a short tail female and if so, what will I get as a result?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

First off, I hope you have researched breeding a lot. 

Yellows are caused from a mutation of the red gene and are thus referred to as non-red (nr). Yellow can be tricky to breed, since it is a recessive trait. This page will explain it better then I can- http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=965

On aquabid, you could contact a seller and ask for a sibling of a yellow male you like, there is a good chance they will sell one to you. Or, you could breed to a yellow hmpk female... But you will start to get some hmpk in f2.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I wish the link on more info for breading yellows worked. LOL

Great website, thank you.

Yes, I am still far away from the actual breeding part, but I am really loving learning about it.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Also you should buy a pair of chocolate bettas it improves the deep yellow it is good to have 2 lines going at the same time breeding yellow or orange without addition f new blood will result in fading.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

thanks for the tip, I will start off with the one pair, not sure yet I can actually do it. If I achieve success with the first pair then I will get a chocolate one or see what else I might need, my first pair may not be the one I end up with.

Should the Chocolate be a new pair or just one male or female to breed with one of the original parents?

Atena


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

You want to get the best line you can get, don't skimp when it comes to selection, if you have average fish you won't be able to sell for a good price.
This is where many people make the mistakes, they breed substandard fish "To try it" and end up stuck with the whole lot because nobody wants a bunch of mongrels.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Mongrels!

wow, that is harsh... 

At this point i am not sure I could tell a good one from a bad one, I know what i would like and this is my criteria. I am not looking to make money here, just a hobby, I am sure someone will want them, but I do hope to get the best fish. I might end up with a dozen before I decide on the final couple. LOL

Atena


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

It was not meant as harsh rather more as elightening, just saying if you start with good fish, good fish come out!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It may come across as harsh to you but he is correct... Put money aside and you still have to think of the time investment... It takes just as much time and effort to breed quality fish as it does mutts that not many people want... And they will sell slower too.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, I do get that .. just don't let them hear you call them that.

Seriously though, How do you know you are getting a pure breed and not a very pretty mutt?


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Knowing the breeders reputation is a very good start, Banleang, Aquastar and Beejay's bettas are very good sources for yellows along with Tony's MN Bettas shop.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

What do you think of this one:










I Fell in love with the rays on her tail and her sweet face. she has a nice body curve also. Is she a pet or is she a breedable fish?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Darth said:


> Knowing the breeders reputation is a very good start, Banleang, Aquastar and Beejay's bettas are very good sources for yellows along with Tony's MN Bettas shop.


Oh my gosh thank you!

I will try to find them and see what they have.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

No problem, many think I come off as harsh..I just tell it like it is, but I want all to succeed for sure my mantra is "Do you want me to tell you what you want to hear? Or the truth?"
I will never be accused of being politically correct hehehe...I did however fire a doctor for trying to sugar coat something, I now have one that makes Dr. House look like a girl scout he is kinda like a Biker in a lab coat, but at least I never have to wonder!!
Beejay's Bettas will ship to your house and is VRY reasonable he offers Banleangs and Aquastar Show quality fish so I would start there because all the work is done for you.
The yellow you show has a very bad topline and the tail is not a nice 180, the anal fin is to sharp and long in proportion to the other fins.
And she is Rosetailed.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

okay, so she is a pet. LOL I have to show you the boy I like to see what you see in him.

I am sorry to be asking you all this, but I do appreciate the help.

Now I have to find Beejays. 

Don't worry about the harshness, I was more concerned about the bettas feelings than anything. I was making fun. I often come off as goofy, generally make fun of everything and every-one (myself included), keeps me smiling through my mistakes.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Darth, please let me know if this is correct:

*Banleang*
http://www.banleangbettas.net
And heir aquabids page: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?disp&viewseller&Banleangbettas

*Aquastar *
only found her on facebook too;
https://www.facebook.com/bettaaquastar

*Tony's MN Bettas shop*
http://www.mnbettashop.com


*Beejay's bettas*
I could only find beejays on facebook...
https://www.facebook.com/beejays.bettasmn

You were right to tell me to start there, I did find him on you tube and already found two yellows I am loving: check this out (the middle pair): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91WAnkgeknY&feature=youtu.be

I want! I want! I want!!! 
I hope he has a young couple just like them.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

I love em!! remember, those guys like Aquastar have VERY soft water.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

yeah, unfortunately, we have very hard water in Miami. All our water flows through lime stone and fossil corals so there is no going around that. I add some IAL to every water change to soften it up, but it is still hard.

They are just going to have to get used to it. I am sure there will be an adjustment period, but I will give them a great home with good care and lots of love and clean water.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

He already told me has the boy for me, he is checking on the girl. 

I think I found my King and Queen - yay!!


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

I lost my first Aquastars to hard water, I since invested in a reverse osmosis under the sink model....Believe me, they don't get used to it.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

oh. 

My last betta did just fine with it, I cannot get reverse osmosis system, I rent and it is cost prohibitive at the moment.

I was reading about using peatmoss in the filter to help control it though, have you tried that?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

This is a photo of the royal couple I am hoping to get... I think they are beautiful.










The boy's face is just like guppy's.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

They look nice but their fins look a bit... Funny. That's the best I can describe it because they are so small and. 

The reason your betta was fine is because he was (presumably) from a petstore and used to the hard water... It isn't the hard water that harms aquastar fish it is the shock and stress of adjusting to hard water from soft water if this all makes sense.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Peat moss unfortunately does not do much to soften water that is already very hard. The same goes with IAL and any bottled product aimed at softening water/lowering pH. 

You really need to use RO water if you want to bring the hardness/pH of your current down.


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## monica12980 (Oct 24, 2012)

Aquabid: i saw a girl for sale, pure yellow. Free shipping too, only 18$.
keep checking!


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I actually adopted Guppy from a friend and he did live in soft water, and the adjustment was not easy at all as I was not expecting that problem at all. He even went blind for two weeks, but in the end he adjusted okay.

I have learned a lot from that experience so I am confident I can do it.

At first though I think I will be buying bottled betta water. Thank you for telling me about it, I would not have known to look for that.

As to these two, I am waiting for better picture and I am pretty sure that female is gone, so I will be getting a different girl. I don't think the boy's fins look weird, i like the way he looks, the girl I agree, she is a little funny, but I think that is an unfortunate pose, she looks much better in the video.

If you could look at the video and tell me what you think I would appreciate it. I would like several opinions as I am very new to this and not sure what I am looking for in a "pure breed" betta.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

monica12980 said:


> Aquabid: i saw a girl for sale, pure yellow. Free shipping too, only 18$.
> keep checking!


Where? I can't find her.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

actually, never mind on those two, I just found out Darth already owns them. gggrrr.

LOL


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Haha what a small world.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Okay, I got a beautiful boy... at least I think he is. 










Link to This is the video of him he is a feisty one!

I saw the video and just loved him. he is and Aquastar which I hear is a good breeder. I am getting him through BeeJay though. Thanks Darth for putting him in touch with me, even if you did take my couple before I even knew they existed. 

What do you all think?


Atena


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

If it makes you fell better, that male got shredded by the female and is recovering from being stripped!!!
He had almost NO fins left she did a number on him, whenever spawning slow big males never put any cover in the tank she can ambush him easy enough, he will never catch her so no worries there, this is an expensive lesson learned after having a lot of males shredded!!
I do leave a clear jar in there but that is all!


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

wow, I am so sorry. 

By no cover, you mean no plants or hiding places?

... and I was worried about the girl.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

What do you guys think about this girl?

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1370083053


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Here is the picture of her...


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Actually I like this one better, but would really Appreciate your advice.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Except that sh looks like she has no arms. Or is I just me?

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1370176201


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

What do you mean by arms? Pectorals or ventrals? Because I can see both sets of fins in the picture. Her ventrals are just pulled up under her stomach.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, that is what I mean... thank you. 

Does she look like a good Breeding girl?


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Well for me personally, I don't like her overly long anal fin. I am not fond of her dorsal either, as it looks kind of an odd shape. 

Also, her caudal doesn't look like it makes a full 180 spread. I am not sure how important this is with females though.

I will gladly confess I am no expert on splendens, but if I were choosing her to breed with I would only cross her onto a male with very good finnage.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

These were the same concerns I had, but I am so unsure of what I am doing I really appreciate your help. There seems to be a shortage of good yellow females.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Yeah, it may be a case where you have to sacrifice form to get the colour you want. Then once you have got the colour, you can start to get to work on improving the form. 

She's not a terrible looking fish by any means, but if you want show standard offspring she is most likely not going to give you many if any.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

Buy from a reputable breeder who can give you genetic history on the fish.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

The first female you posted has much better form... Neither are perfect, but the second girl has a very long anal, an oddly shaped dorsal fin like LBF pointed out, and a rounded tail that is far from 180.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

When I breed for color in yellows I use Plakat females why? For some reason I am not sure why, the plakat seems to have a deeper yellow than a HM, the results are always good nd you have some awesome plakats in the F2.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Atena: as a guide, look for equal fin lengths, dorsal opens like a fan (the first girl), caudal has pointy edges rather than rounded, preferably front ray of dorsal is long. 

You will unlikely find that perfect girl. But with the above criteria, you should produce fine looking specimens.

Good Luck


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you, this helps a lot.

I have been noticing that PK's have much better colors but I was not sure I would get a "pure breed" crossing a HM with a PK. Is that acceptable breeding?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Learning about shape... i know the color is wrong in the following bettas, but I am look at fins and shape, just so I learn to recognize what people look for in a quality female.










The white one is closer to the shape I am looking for but her anal fin is still an odd shape.

This gold one is more even all around, she in my mind is a good example of a pretty perfect female... am I wrong?










If only she were yellow. LOL


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Her anal is long,dorsal seems small, and she isn't 180... But she is still a really nice fish. Not a good example of a perfect female but still nice. 

HMPK and hm is an acceptable cross but you won't get any HMPK in f1... And you may have to work on form.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I better keep looking.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

One of the breeders just sent me photos of this little girl. What do we think?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

her tail fin is still a little long right?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

This is what a long finned form should look like. You probably wont find anything like this, but try to get something as close as possible.

View attachment 140241




This is the form of an asymmetrical short fin. Notice the bottom line of the anal should be relatively straight. While long fins should have a curved bottom line anal.

View attachment 140249



PS. Sorry, I can't find HM pictures and currently can't make a new sketch


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

that is a great help, thank you so much.


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