# Setting up tank for goldfish....



## Wolfie305

So as some of you know from my other thread, I just rescued two Comet Goldfish when my cousin was giving them away as "prizes" at her daughter's birthday party (ugh). 

I haven't been able to rehome them and I'm pretty attached to them already....so I decided to keep them (I think this is how the addiction starts LOL). 

I went on Craigslist and found a guy selling a 10 gallon tank and a bunch of accessories (decorations, fake plants, food, filter, cover, rocks) for $10. I went and picked it up today. I KNOW 10 gallons isn't big enough for Comets, but they are still babies and I figured this would at least give me a few months to save up for something larger. 

I guess my first question would be where do I start? I think someone mentioned that you didn't have to cycle a 10 gallon tank if you didn't want to, is this okay? If it's recommended that I cycle the tank, how should I go about doing it for these guys? No idea how to cycle D:

Also, I assume the filter is a must? I'm probably going to get some crap from my parents because I'm "using electricity," but if I have to use it, I will. What do I need to know? I was given an "Internal Whisper Power Filter" for a 10-30 gallon tank by Tetra.

Sorry if I'm repeating a bunch of things already posted. I just want to do what I can for these little guys!


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## thekoimaiden

I just want to let you know what you are getting into: those little comets will grow to around a foot long and need a 100+ gal tank by the time they are mature. This is going to be about a year maybe a little more. They are much better suited for pond life and will live a longer an happier life as pond fish. Comet goldfish don't make good aquarium pets. 

Now, to answer your questions: 
A 10 gal tank will only be a suitable home for these guys for about a month. They grow like crazy, produce a ton of waste, and like to have a lot of swimming room. You will be upgrading them almost monthly. You are better off just getting a massive tank to start with or building a pond. I wouldn't have bought the 10 gal and would have gone straight for a huge plastic tub from WalMart (or the like). They come in much larger sizes and will provide them with a more long-term home than a 10 gal tank would. However, it won't be a permanent home. 

You will have to cycle the tank. You have no choice with goldfish as the amount of ammonia they produce is significantly larger than a betta. I suggest reading this to get started with your cycle: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

A filter is an absolute must. I recommend the AquaClear 30 as they are going to provide a lot of biological filtration and you can get an ammonia removing insert. Just skip the carbon insert; the ammonia-removing one will be a much greater help. A heater is not needed and not really advisable either. Goldfish will grow faster at higher temperatures. If you can keep the tank around 60F you will only have to feed them every other day. 

This is a great goldfish resource: Gold fish Care Sheet This website also has a forum that is filled with very knowledgeable people. They also have a fish vet that frequents the forum. You could also try PM-ing Lupin as he is a very knowledgeable individual. He also frequents that forum.


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## LittleBettaFish

I have three Shubunkin (biggest is around 6-7 inches) in a standard 3 foot tank and even that seems cramped to me.

They do have a 110 gallon tank I just haven't gotten around to moving downstairs yet, and even then I'd ideally like to have a pond for them to move into. 

Aside from all the excellent points TheKoiMaiden has made, comets and other non-fancy goldfish are all very active swimmers. My biggest shubunkin can travel the whole length of their tank in only a few seconds. The three of them love swimming into the current (I run a Fluval 3 and 4 Plus) and spend a lot of time moving around foraging for food. 

While it's great you rescued these guys, a lot of the hassle with goldfish is the amount of space needed by even the smaller ones. I can see first-hand the result of stunting on my oldest shubunkin (it's around 4-5 years old now) and it's really not fair on the fish. I don't know how much damage has been done by previous bad care, or how many years have been scrubbed off their lives.

Definitely go as big as you can as soon as you can. We didn't, and it's quite obvious that it was a mistake.


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## Wolfie305

Thanks for the help! I'm definitely looking into a bigger tank and will keep the time frame in mind. There's a slight possibility of me moving in with my boyfriend soon, so I don't want to have to worry about moving a huge tank until I'm settled in.

I've been spending the afternoon researching cycling. It's so confusing to me, but hopefully I'll do okay D: I'll make sure to use the filter. Good to know about those inserts.

Edit: I can't decide if I should do a fishless cycle or a fish-in cycle. I don't want them crammed in this little tank for weeks while the tank cycles... any advice? 

Ugh, this is why people should not treat fish like disposable animals and give them away at parties. There is too much preparation involved! D:<


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## Bombalurina

I'd say doing a fish-in cycle in the ten gallon will be better than them being in their current tank. Either way, you are looking at daily 100% water changes - it may as well be in the tank they have more room to swim in than in the little one.


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## thekoimaiden

Even my fancy goldfish are pretty active swimmers considering their chubby bodies. They regularly swim the entire length of the 55 gal. Swimming room is a must with these guys. 

I completely agree with Bomba. Doing a fish-in cycle in this case is the best way to go about it. It will give these guys some swimming room and company (goldfish don't like being alone). Once you get the tank cycled you won't have to do a full cycle again in the upgraded tanks because the good bacteria will stick to the filter media. This is why I suggest an AquaClear filter as they have biological media that will easily fit into a larger size filter.

I wish fish weren't treated as disposable, too. I've seen legislation in the UK that is trying to make the giving away of animals (fish or fuzzy) as carnival prizes illegal. I wish something like that could come about in the US.


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## Wolfie305

Bomba - 100% daily water changes until the tank (10gal) is cycled? Or for as long as I have it? 

Koimaiden - I have a question about the filter (I know nothing about filters). I currently have ( http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Whi...-Gallon-Acquariums-Power-Filter-1-ct/10291764 ). It didn't come with the bag thingy to put inside of it, so I'm not sure what to get. There are things called Bio Bags and also filter cartridges ( http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Z28eK2aTL.jpg ), but I don't know what one is the right one.. D:

And yeah, that is an awesome law that I wish would come to the US also.


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## Pitluvs

I am not sure 100% water changes would benefit any cycle, as once an area dries up the bacteria dies. If such large water changes are needed, I would go with 50% twice a day rather than 100% daily.

I so wouldn't want to do 50% twice a day, or 100% once a day. Oh my gosh... I cry when I have to clean my 10g's 100% twice a month LOL


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## thekoimaiden

I imagine filters can be kind of daunting if you've never dealt with them before. That Whisper filter says for "up to 10 gal tanks." With goldfish you want to overfilter, so you want to have something that is rated for a 20-30 gal tank. 

These are the aquaclear filters that I'm talking about --> Aqua Clear Power Filters by Hagen PetSmart I would go with the either the 150/30 model or the 200/50 model*. *If you go with the 150/30 model you will need to upgrade when you get your next tank. 
These are the three inserts you'll want for it. 
AquaClear Ammonia Remover Filter Insert PetSmart <-- Ammonia-remover
AquaClear Foam Filter PetSmart <-- Foam pad (mechanical filtration to remove particles)
AquaClear BioMax Filter Insert PetSmart <-- Bio-media (or bio-balls). It provides a lot of surface area for the bacteria to grow. This is what you'll want to move between tanks. Also _never_ put it in tap water as the chlorine will kill the good bacteria you worked so hard to get. 
These inserts aren't the same for all the models. You should be able to match your filter with the correct-size inserts in the store. 

Any other questions about filters?


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## Wolfie305

Awesome, great info! 

So step 1 (after purchasing new filter)
- Set it up and make it all pretty 
- Add the water 
- Dechlorinate the water 
- Get filter running 

Anything else?


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## thekoimaiden

When you start up a filter, always make sure it has water inside. Without the water, you can burn up your motor. Just pour a little bit of water into the filter and then plug it in. 

Otherwise, that sounds great. But in the future when you are taking out water for water changes I would dechlorinate the water before you add it to the the tank as the chlorine kills the good bacteria. In this tank you are going to want a strong cycle, so you should try to keep as much of the good bacteria alive as possible.


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## Wolfie305

Awesome! I will definitely remember that then. 

I realized that the water dechlorinator I had was for bettas and small tanks only, so I just picked up some PRIME at PetSmart, as well as the correct inserts for my filter. Which, by the way, on the box of my filter, it says it's for 10-30 gallons yay!


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## Wolfie305

This is the PRIME I got - http://d2oqjo3nc0aqra.cloudfront.net/11442/product/standard/503278.jpg

It says to add a cap full per 50 gallons. I added a cap full. Did I put too much in? D:


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## thekoimaiden

It's a bit much, but just this once it won't hurt. Prime is so strong you really only need a few drops per gallon. I did the math and it's roughly .3mL needed per gallon. If you can find something that measures 1 mL that will be just fine for your 10 gal tank.


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## Wolfie305

Thank you! Wow it must be powerful. The stuff I bought for my betta requires a teaspoon so I was like "Whaaaat?" 

Alright, checklist time. 
- All washed and decorated 
- Water has been in it and sitting since 11 this morning 
- Just now put in filter with filter insert (I think this filter requires a sponge to go in front of the insert - should it be okay without one for now)
- Put in Prime 

Anything I'm missing? When should I put these little guys in? Also, when should I start testing the water quality? 

Thanks for all your help so far, Koimaiden! Couldn't have done it without you


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## thekoimaiden

Do you have a thermometer? It's not really required since you shouldn't be heating the tank, but it's always a nice gauge to have. Also did you pick up a water testing kit?

I'm more than happy to help. Goldfish and koi are some of my main passions in life. Helping others enjoy big, healthy, long-lived fish gives me great pleasure.


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## Wolfie305

Ooh, I'll get a thermometer then. And yes, I have a test kit (the drops), but I don't think it measures the pH. Need to get that.. 

And yes! Hopefully I'll have these guys for a long time. I'm already attached!


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## thekoimaiden

Drops are the best! PH doesn't matter as much as ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte right now. The first two because they are toxic to fish, and the last because a spike indicates your cycle is nearing the end. It is also good to test your tap water as a baseline. That way if you get a nitrAte reading of 30ppm the first time, we'll know where it came from. 

A well-cared for goldfish will easily live 15 years. You'll have those little guys with you for a long time!


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## Wolfie305

I did some research on here before getting them and found that the drops worked best, so that's why I snagged them! I also learned that Ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite were the most important, so I made sure these drops tested for those!

Should I test the tank right now while it doesn't have any fish in it? Or just test my tap water? I guess with the dechlorinater in the already, it doesn't help much hahaha. 

Other than that, I'm thinking of putting them in tonight. I'm so nervous and excited at the same time hahaha.


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## thekoimaiden

I would actually test the water straight from the tap. At least that's what I do. I don't know how that large dose of Prime would affect it. 

As for when to add them, I think you'll be good to add them now (if you plan to stay up a little longer and make sure everything is okay). You're doing a fish-in cycle, so you don't have to wait for your parameters to be good. They should already be acclimated to your local water supply. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are good to go. You can add them.


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## Wolfie305

I added them last night and they survived through the night! YAY!


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## thekoimaiden

That's great to hear! What is your ammonia reading? Depending on the time you added them last night, it will give you an idea of just how fast the ammonia can rise.


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## MinaMinaMina

TheKoiMaiden is doing a bang up job helping you out, but just to add in some points...

You can speed up/help the cycle by doing a couple additional things here. If you know anyone that has an establish, HEALTHY tank, you can borrow some "bioseed" to add to your tank. "bioseed" can mean anything on which beneficial bacteria can grow (filter media, substrate, decorations, plants). This addition can seed your tank with bacterial and cut down on the time it takes you to multiple your own bacteria. Just make sure you only use seed from a healthy tank, no diseases or illness (past or present)!

Another thing to help is to add plants. With goldies being the little plant eating machines they are, this can either work or just ending being a snack. So choose plants carefully! I would reccommend two plants- duckweed and hornwort. (You can click on the shaded names to read more.) Both are fast growing, so they suck up (at least some of) the ammonia before it gets a chance to hurt your fish. Duckweed is a surface plant, and goldies do love to eat it. Its nutritious! So just make sure you get a large enough portion that they fish don't eat it all up before it gets a chance to start to multiple. Hornwort is a floating plant, but it can also be anchored. It does shed its needles annoyingly under lower light, so its a bit messy and you really have to keep up on vacuuming up the shed leaves (you should be vacuuming at least weekly, anyway). But even considering the shedding, hornwort is awesome because it grows quickly, can survive low light, and isn't usually eaten by goldies (unless they're desperate, and even then it usually grows quickly enough to survive the damage). 

During cycling, it helps to feed sparingly. The less you feed, the less waste is being produced, so the less ammonia (both from fish waste and food waste) is being released into the water. Lower, but still in the comfort range, temps can help too by slowing metabolism.

I think you said you have gravel, right? This should be vacuumed at least weekly. Do you have a gravel vac? If not, one can be made for common materials. There's a tutorial on youtube.com for a gravel vac made from a plastic water bottle.

A great alternative to the 10g temp aquarium would be using a large plastic storage bin as a temp tank. You can treat it just like an aquarium, using your filter and substrate, etc. This will allow you to have a much larger temp home for CHEAP or FREE while you're saving your money for their permanent home. Its not pretty, but its better for the fish.

Good luck! And thanks for trying to look out for fish!


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## Bombalurina

Another good goldie plant is anacharis. In my experience, they love to snack on it and it gives them a little bit of variety.  Obviously not so good when you are trying to cycle, though, as it just makes them poop more.


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## MinaMinaMina

Actually, the ammonia sucking abilities outweigh the increased waste, IMO. But there are other plants that suck ammonia just as well but aren't as appetizing, like hornwort. The other reason that I didn't recommend Anacharis is because it requires more light than hornwort in order to grow well, and therefore doesn't suck up as much ammonia in lower light. 

If it were me, I'd stick to duckweed and hornwort. Other plants can be added later, if the OP wants, and has the needed light and conditions.


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## thekoimaiden

Mina is right. Anarcharis shows the best growth under a higher light. Duckweed and hornwort are the two plants that have given me the most growth with my goldfish (sometimes as much as a foot a week with the hornwort!). Water sprite and anarcharis (as great as they are) need better lighting than what comes with the hood.


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## Olympia

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this, probably have, but I believe you can feed them certain vegetables, I know broccoli for example. I know there's other ones also for em.


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## thekoimaiden

Good point Olympe. You can feed them greens like kale and spinach as well as squashes like yellow squash and zucchini. Peas are great, too. They will eat them frozen/thawed or fresh. These will help cut down on the ammonia load, too. Foods that are high in protein like well normal fish food will make them produce more ammonia than veggies. So when you don't want to eat your veggies feed them to your goldies!


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## Bombalurina

Really? I've always found my anacharis grows just fine in low light, even ambient light. Then again, in the goldie tank it has always been eaten before it could grow much.  Maybe it is hardier here (it is actually illegal in New South Wales because it is a noxious pest).


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## MinaMinaMina

There are a few varieties of Anarcharis, Elodea, Egeria, whateveritscalled. I can never keep up with the current common and latin names. :lol: I took a quick search and found _Egeria densa, __Elodea nuttallii, __Elodea callitrichoides, _and_Elodea crispa _[which is a misnomer] which all look similar. So maybe we're each familiar with different varieties? The only one I've seen sold here in my part of the US, whichever one it is, has never grown well for me in very low or low light. In fact, I've never tried it again because I got so frustrated with it! :lol:

Whichever variety you have, I'm glad you're having good luck with it!


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## Bombalurina

Mine seems to be a combination of the names...Elodea densa! Just for some more confusion there.


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## Wolfie305

Live plants need a light, correct? The tank came with a cover, but it doesn't have a light and the filter makes it so it doesn't sit down all the way. So I do want a new cover... 

Anyway, sorry for disappearing. So far so good with these little guys! They are eating and swimming happily  

Turns out the test kit I bought only tests for Ammonia (I for confused because I saw N3/N4 on the box and I thought that was Nitrate/Nitrite), so I will be going to PetSmart again on Monday on my way up to school to grab the Nitrate/Nitrite kits.

So far, the Ammonia has stayed a consistent 0.25, which I believe is not perfect, but okay? Believe it or not, I went to a technical high school and my "shop" was Environmental Technology, so I tested water quality for HUGE tanks with tilapia, trout, bass, etc (I am having the hardest time remembering everything I did for the tanks though haha). I do remember all our tanks were usually 0.25 for Ammonia, but correct me if it's not good. 

How should I be going about water changes while this tank cycles?


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## thekoimaiden

Live plants do need a light. When you get another hood (if you have the money and want plants) you should look into a 6500k growth bulb. I know Petco carries the ZooMed UltraSun bulbs which are the grow bulbs I use. 

I wish my high school had done things like that. I would have loved an aquaculture class. I didn't even get one in college. Anyways, any reading of ammonia is bad. 0.25 ppm isn't the worst thing in the world, but it is not good. I would be doing 50% daily water changes on that tank until it is cycled. 

I wouldn't go for the individual test kits. I would go ahead and get the API master kit because you will need everything that is in that kit at one point in time.


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## Wolfie305

Okay then  Thanks for that info  I've been doing the 50% and everything seems to be going good  I just got a gravel vac for my birthday as well hehe. 

Also, I figured I would post some pictures now that I have the time to actually take them hahaha. 





































Aren't they so cute? Hehe.


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## thekoimaiden

Awww! They're so little and cute! I can see why you wanted to keep them. They also look very healthy. No clamped fins or red streaks in their fins. Keep up the great work!


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## Olympia

Holy poop. So tiny. So cute. How long does it take a goldfish to grow to full size, koimaiden? I can't imagine them getting huge that fast o-o


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## ZergyMonster

I don't know the average growth rate of a gold fish but mine starting at about 1 inch long is now about 5 inches long (from nose to tail) and it only took about a year and a half. 

I really do feel bad because I can't supply her with the tank size she needs, but once it gets a little nicer outside I know of a pond with other gold fish where I'll be taking her.


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## thekoimaiden

Zergy has it pretty close to correct. With clean water and good nutrition, single-tail goldies reach around a foot in about a year. This could take a little longer in an outdoor pond because growth slows significantly in the winter (meaning it will be about 2 years). Goldfish grow fastest in the first 2-3 years of life. After that it slows down a lot, but since fish have indeterminate growth (they grow as long as they are alive) a goldfish can potentially reach about 2 feet. Koi can reach around 4 feet long, but this takes quite a few years, good food, and swimming space.


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## Bombalurina

They are so beautiful! I love how elegant comets are.  We bought the cover for our pond today, so hopefully my sister's poor comet in his 23 gallon will soon be able to thrive in all his glory.


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## Karebear13

thekoimaiden said:


> Good point Olympe. You can feed them greens like kale and spinach as well as squashes like yellow squash and zucchini. Peas are great, too. They will eat them frozen/thawed or fresh. These will help cut down on the ammonia load, too. Foods that are high in protein like well normal fish food will make them produce more ammonia than veggies. So when you don't want to eat your veggies feed them to your goldies!


Random question. Can Koi eat these vegetables as well or only goldfish?


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## Karebear13

Wolfie305 said:


> Okay then  Thanks for that info  I've been doing the 50% and everything seems to be going good  I just got a gravel vac for my birthday as well hehe.
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Omg they are so cute


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## thekoimaiden

Karebear13 said:


> Random question. Can Koi eat these vegetables as well or only goldfish?


Oh yes. Koi and goldfish are rather closely related and have very similar physiology. I've feed my koi peas and zucchini on multiple occasions. They also seem to get a lot of the old fruit that is in my fridge like strawberries and blackberries. They also love orange slices. Really most fruits and veggies are good for koi. You have to be a little more careful with fancy goldfish tho as some vegetables (like broccoli) can cause gastrointestinal bloat.


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## Karebear13

that is cool! I will give my koi some veggies then


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## Wolfie305

So today I experienced the joys of tank cycling first hand... my ammonia SPIKED to 2.0 and now my little orange guy is missing the long fins on his tail  I feel terrible. 

I freaked and changed the water and cleaned the gravel and the water seems to be back to normal, but I'm worried about my orange guy. Did he damage his fins himself from stress from the ammonia, or does he have tail rot? Should I QT him? His fin looks normal except that it's missing the long and beautiful part. It does look a little red towards the base of his body, but his orange colors flow into his tail like that so I could be seeing just the color. I don't see any white anywhere.

The white guy looks perfectly healthy with no signs of any problems.

Advice?


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## Olympia

I hope you didn't clean the gravel TOO well, because that could also ruin your cycle.. 
A photo would be nice to see.


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## Wolfie305

Nope, just a few spots around the surface because I had just fed them (before noticing his tail). I DID remember the cycle and kinda figured it might kill it, so yay for remembering  

I also didn't do a full water change, but more than the daily ones I have been doing. 

I'll try to get a good photo of him!

Edit: Grrrr, need to charge my battery. Camera is not letting me take a picture till I do.


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## thekoimaiden

Cycling a tank will be hard on both you and the fish, but goldfish are usually hardy enough to stand it. The redness you are seeing on the little orange guy could just be stress. My goldfish will get a pinky tint to their nice long tails when they get stressed. Finrot will look the same as it does with betta and be a little red edge, deteriorating fins, and sometimes blood-red streaks going up the fins. I agree with Olympia; a picture would be great.


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## Wolfie305

He looks pretty bad, my poor baby  I just had to drive my brother down the street and I stopped at the vet supply store and picked up something called "Jungle Fish Health Fungus Eliminator" just in case this is bacterial.. if this isn't a good product just let me know. 

Here are the pictures  Looks like he's missing some scales in one of them...




























The little white one seems to be following him everywhere and checking on him.


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## Wolfie305

I definitely see some red now with the pictures at the base of his tail. The little splotches all over are his body color, but at the very base there is red. 

:C

I'm am amazed at how quickly this happened. He was perfectly fine yesterday morning before I went off to work (had to do an overnight). Then I cam back today and he was like that :C


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## Olympia

Ouch, 
Fungal and bacterial are two different types of diseases.. If this is is fin rot, most fin rot is bacterial.. you may have picked up the wrong med :/ I wouldn't use it just yet though anyways.


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## Wolfie305

On the back it says it clears cotton fungus, red sores, gray skin, dropsy, fin and mouth rot, white film on eyes, red streaks on fins, and swim bladder diseases.

It was all they had for treatment, so I figured I would pick it up while I was there and if it's not the right kind, I could return it or just save it for potential future problems. But yeah, I wanna see what Koimaiden has to say first before using it.

I know, I feel so bad for the guy. Breaking my heart


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## thekoimaiden

You might not have an infection. Sometimes streaks on the fins can be caused by poor water quality which often occurs during a cycle. Lets hold off on the medications. If you start to see the tips of the fins deteriorating we can begin to treat with salt. Olympia is right about the meds. Finrot is usually bacterial, so antifungal meds won't do much. See if you can return them. 

Woah. Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you guys. I guess dinner ran longer than I thought.


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## Wolfie305

Ahh thank you for your response! I have to do overnights for work this entire weekend and I can't stop thinking about the little guy. I've been having my dad check on him. 

It's not so much streaks as it is the missing tail - that's what is worrying me the most. He had such a beautiful long tail and now it's gone all in a day 

After changing the water, he seems to look better activity wise. He has been swimming around and he is eating. When I first discovered his tail, it took me a few minutes to find him because he was hiding and he never hides. I thought it he got out of the tank because I couldn't find him for so long D:

What would be the best salt to get so I am prepared?


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## thekoimaiden

Just the basic AQ salt (I use the API brand). It is the same stuff we treat betta finrot with. Just make sure you keep up with your water changes. The missing tail is a mystery. Don't worry as it will grow back. It doesn't look like it rotted off. It looks cut or nipped. The edge is rather clean. Is there anything in the tank with a sharp edge? Have you seen any nipping between the two?


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## Wolfie305

I looked at him this morning and it looks like his tail is split down the middle and a little frayed now. I'll get a picture tonight. He's still active and eating, but he is still definitely hiding and he was actually laying down under all the plants yesterday. I usually see him swimming around whenever I go into the room, but the last few times he didn't come out until he saw me. Water quality is good.

His tail was white and now since the tail is gone it's like a brown color D: If it was an infection, I would have seen his tail deteriorate slowly, correct? I mean, I just woke up and it was half gone. It does look like a clean cut. 

The tank decorations aren't all that sharp - he might have torn it coming out of the hole in one of them? And I haven't seen any nipping or chasing. The little white one seems very attached to the orange one. When the orange one was laying down, the white one hovered next to him.


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## Olympia

Gah :/
Oh that sounds so cute! Koi and goldfish are very smart fish, I know they bond with people, so I'm sure they form relationships with each other too


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## Wolfie305

It was really cute, but almost heartbreaking at the same time  

And the stuff I mentioned in my last post happened yesterday, I fee like today he is looking more lively. He was swimming about when I came home and very eager to eat.

I'm going to purchase some salt today just to have it for any future problems, but should I add some to the tank or would that not do anything for a torn fin?


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## Olympia

You can, the salt could prevent any infection from setting in. You said his fin looks brown? 
I don't remember if you do, but live plants have to be removed since the salt will kill them.


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## Wolfie305

I actually checked out some live plants today at PetCo and they didn't have the ones you guys recommended  I still don't have the light hood anyway, but I could have rigged something up temporarily. 

I did grab the salt though (and a new 5.5 tank for my betta baby that was the cheapest I have seen  ). It won't hurt them to put some in? How much (I assume it will say on the box, but I like to ask as well haha) 

I also started getting things for an air stone because I realized something - I don't think my tank is getting enough aggravation in the water, which could have contributed to this ammonia spike. I noticed my filter doesn't make much bubbles/movement because the water level is pretty close. So I grabbed the tubing and some little stones and now I just need the pump. I need one that's super quiet though because my dad hears everything - any suggestions?


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## Olympia

Don't know about the pump.. Sorry :/

I think it'd be the same as for betta.. 1tsp/gallon. However since it's nothing, if you feel you should use it anyways, you can cut it to 0.5tsp/gallon.


----------



## Wolfie305

Hmmm okays. I'm gonna keep an eye on him for another day or two to give his tail some time to recover (in case it is nothing). It's just the brown that's worrying me and making me think he's got finrot. Probably just paranoid D:


----------



## Savannah

I know i also won my comet and had him for about 2 years in a ten gallon but I decided he needed a freind but the new fish brougt a desiease and both died.


----------



## Wolfie305

I'm sorry to hear about your fish, Savanna


----------



## thekoimaiden

Sorry I've been out of touch for so long. Gah! I hate errands. 

About the salt, since you are seeing jagged edge I would go ahead and add salt at 1 teaspoon (5 mL) per gallon. That will get a concentration of .1% which is what we use to treat bacterial infections. Goldfish can handle salt for a while so go ahead and add it. Just make sure you put an equal amount of salt back in when you take out water. 

A bubble stone is a great idea. Goldfish like highly oxygenated water. They will also play in the bubbles. I like the Fusion air pumps as they are really quiet and last a long time. Rena pumps are also pretty good. The pumps are generally pretty silent, but the bubbles coming out of the water do make noise. I use bubble filters in my room, and there is more noise than you would think. 

Goldfish and koi are very social creatures. They're not true schooling fish, but they love company and will be visibly sad and stressed if removed from the group. I recently had to separate my goldfish due to some nipping issues, both goldies spent all day swimming at the divider trying to touch each other. My koi are also very social and tend to follow the leaders. 

Savannah brings up a great point: always quarantine new goldfish for at least a month to monitor for illness. I'm sorry you lost your goldies; sometimes we have to learn lessons the hard way. I also had a brush with ich due to a lack of quarantine. I also hope you now know that a 10 gal is too small to keep a goldfish in for very long. It's best to just divide it and get two bettas.


----------



## BettaMiah

^ +1

My Goldfish Beau thrives with his Bubbler. I never see him have to go to the surface for air, which is awesome. I highly recommend one!


----------



## Olympia

I remember I always had to turn mine off when I went to bed at night Dx


----------



## Wolfie305

Great! I will add the salt first thing in the morning (at work doing an overnight ugh, my luck my poor fishy gets sick this busy weekend). And I will be purchasing an air pump as soon as possible then  

I asked my little brother to check on him for me and to text me before he goes to bed on his status, so I'm impatiently awaiting that text!

Also, I just contacted some people on Craigslist about a new tank for a steal. It's still not big enough (made an offer for a 20 and a 29 - both came with a bunch of accessories), but it will be better for them until I figure out my moving situation with the boyfriend lol. These both come with stands and hoods too, so maybe I can get some live plants going. 

Besides, you can never have enough tanks right?  Having an extra tank will give me an excuse for more bettas hehe :lol:


----------



## thekoimaiden

I've had weekends like yours. All the fish get sick and ammonia pops up in a tank when the boyfriend and family are in town. We're here for you.

A 29 gal tank will hold you over for a while (another month or two). The larger water volume will also help with the ammonia. A hood with a light is great news, too! Live plants really do make a world of a difference. Plus, you can turn it into a big sorority when you've got a bigger goldfish tank.


----------



## Olympia

Man you are going to have A LOT of fish tanks by them time they're grown.
Just getting ready to be a master aquarist?


----------



## Wolfie305

Koimaiden - I know and you guys have been so awesome so far! Couldn't have done it without you. I've needed a lot of refreshing on fish care these past few weeks! But I am in love with it, I think it's becoming a hobby >_> Hahaha

Olympia - Hahahahaa I know! Paarthurnax's new tank was needed - he's been living in a 1 gallon tank and I know he would benefit from more space! I'll keep his 1 gallon for a hospital tank/holding tank. 

I'm pretty good with my self control when it comes to weighing out the money/space/time stuff. I know what and what I can't handle....usually. Of course, unless I find myself rescuing again.....then I can't say no! Lol. My parents aren't too thrilled with the two tanks I have now, so I'll have to wait until I move out until I can really put all the tanks to use!


----------



## Wolfie305

Just got back from visiting my babies and I must say, he looks MUCH better. His tail is no longer that brownish color and it's back to it's white self. I could just be being a hopeful mommy, but I feel like it's starting to come back a bit? It's a bit frayed, but it seems longer? Here he is. He looks a little clamped in these pictures, but he wasn't like that the whole time I was with him. Not sure what would cause the clamping? His other fins are perfectly healthy though.




























Note, the white near his underbelly/tail base are just his markings, not missing scales or anything.

What does everyone think? 

I did a water change and added a tad bit of salt. He was active when I came into the room and still very much has an appetite


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## thekoimaiden

Oh wow! He does look a lot better. The red has significantly subsided. I'm still baffled as to what caused his tail injury. One of the greatest maxims of fishkeeping I have heard is: Take care of the water and the fish will follow. 

As for the clamping I'm guessing the flash did that to him. None of my fish like the flash. I even have a betta who puts on his stress stripes when I use flash.


----------



## Bombalurina

I wish there was a magical species of comet that stayed small. They are so cute when they are babies.


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## Wolfie305

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that, Koimaiden! I really hope his tail grows back for him, the poor little guy! Would it effect his quality of life if it didn't? 

Oh no, I didn't think the flash would stress him like that D: It's the only way to get a clear picture unless I have a lot sunlight. I'll have to be careful. I can't believe your betta puts on his stripes D:

Bomba - They are super cute and super little. Hard to believe he'll grow a foot long!


----------



## Olympia

Have you seen full grown comets? o-o They are huuge.
Our LFS has some full grown comets.. guessing they got dumped there.


----------



## thekoimaiden

His tail will regrow with a good diet. Much like bettas and their tails. I wouldn't worry about the flash that much. It will only be a real problem if you're flashing the camera in his face for hours at a time. My boy really doesn't like the camera at all. I've gotten like 2 decent pictures of him. I think the first time I used flash I traumatized him.


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## Wolfie305

What would you suggest for his diet? 

Aww, he must be camera shy haha.


----------



## Olympia

You named them Fus and Ro?!? OMG you are amazing


----------



## Wolfie305

Yes hehehe. Once I move out and get a nice big tank all cycled (or a pond), I'll be getting a third and naming he "Dah" XD!! They sound kinda silly by themselves, but I like them <3 

Although my cousin, who took three from the party, is having a hard time with all her fish and asked me last night if I would take one. I told her I didn't have the space (at the moment), but she's keeping hers in a slightly bigger BOWL than what we got them in at that party >.< I feel like my 10 gallon tank with three would be better than her tiny bowl with three, but I am going to wait until little Fus is feeling better and my tank is cycled before taking on any more. 

I feel bad and really want to take him to get him out of there, but then I would feel irresponsible because my two are already in a smaller tank than they should be! Such dilemmas :C


----------



## thekoimaiden

Wolfie305 said:


> What would you suggest for his diet?
> 
> Aww, he must be camera shy haha.


He's camera-shy and very wiggly. He's even hard for me to get a good look at. 

In the food department you've got a bit of a conundrum: you could feed higher-protein food that will make them grow faster (and ultimately larger) but this will cause more ammonia in the tank. Or you could feed lower-protein food that won't put a lot of ammonia in the tank but they won't grow/heal as fast. I think the biggest deciding factor at this point is how long until you will be able to upgrade. Right now it's probably best to keep the ammonia at a min, but when they get into a larger tank start feeding some higher-protein food. Actually if you can find a wheat-germ (or seasonal) koi food that would be perfect for them. 

I think you are right for waiting. Introducing a sick fish into a cycling tank isn't a good idea. Just advise her on water changes and water conditioner. Also your naming scheme is adorable!


----------



## Olympia

Haha and the photo in your signature will look like Paarthurnax is yelling at them 
3 goldies in a bowl.. That will not end well. I agree it's good that you aren't endangering your current ones by trying to save another though.


----------



## thekoimaiden

I finally found the picture I have been wanting to share with everyone. 









Source. It's from The GAB (goldfish forum) annual photo contest. This isn't even as large as the commons and comets get.


----------



## Wolfie305

OH MY GOD! That is amazing!! How big is that tank?


----------



## thekoimaiden

Looking at the height of the filter intake (Aqauaclear) as compared to its height in my 55 gal it is probably 75 gal or larger. Maybe a 125 gal. It's certainly a lot bigger than my 55 gal.


----------



## Wolfie305

Hmm okay. I've been looking at 40-55gals on Craigslist. My neighbor is also the district manager at PetCo and I asked him when the next $1 a gallon sale was next and he said they do them like every few months and one just happened, so the next should be soonish.

Also, about the food, do you have links to what you were talking about that wouldn't raise the ammonia? Just so I know what to look for. Would fruits and veggies help him at all? I gave them some apple pieces and carrots this morning - he loved the apples!


----------



## Fishguy2727

Any food will bring in nitrate and phosphate, they have to because it is part of fish nutrition (protein and other essentials). A high quality food will keep waste to a minimum and provide a complete and balanced diet. I only feed and recommend New Life Spectrum. 

If the food is good enough you shouldn't need to supplement ANYTHING including fruits and veggies. 

There are two things you can control in an aquarium that will completely make the difference between thriving and dying: water quality and food quality. If you feed NLS the food part is taken care of. If you do enough water changes to keep the nitrate under 20ppm the water quality should be taken care of too.


----------



## Wolfie305

I understand having a good quality feed (thank you for that recommendation, by the way), but I thought goldfish benefited from a varied diet that consisted of fruits and veggies along with their main source?


----------



## thekoimaiden

Goldfish do need variety as they are omnivorous. I don't know any experienced goldfish keeper that will not recommend added veggies as this best mimics their natural diet. NLS is a great staple, but it needs to be supplemented especially if one is looking for optimal growth or breeding. 

You should be able to find New Life Spectrum goldfish food at Petco. I've seen it there before. They just don't have the right size for my big chubby goldies. Peas are great, easy greens as they all you have to do is peel and pop in the tank (just make sure they don't have any extra sugar or salt added). I would feed fruit sparingly due to the higher sugar content. Think of them more as a treat. Veggies and NLS being their main diet. Broccoli stems are another good food that people sometimes throw out. Why let it go to waste? Feed it to your fish! Just make sure all veggies haven't been marinated or spiced up with anything.


----------



## Wolfie305

Okay, that's what I was thinking. I'll definitely pick up some NLS next time I'm there and continue with the fruits and veggies. 

But I have some bad news, the little guy looks like he's going downhill again  I woke up and couldn't find him for a while. I looked under the log and I could see him laying down. He finally came out after a while so I could see his tail - there is nothing left but tiny little frays (two long ones and the rest are short). I assume the head stuff was just falling off to make room for the new? Not sure if that's true. 

But he's not looking good to me. He keeps going to the surface to get some air and he didn't eat his food (which he always does). He'll swim and then kinda let himself sink to the bottom after a while. Sometimes he's at the bottom nose first  

He has also been clamped a lot. Noticed it a lot yesterday and he's still clamping now. 

Should I QT him and treat him with salt? I really want him to make it. I don't know what I'd do if he died :C


----------



## Wolfie305

He's currently laying down and it looks like he's kinda gasping. The other one swam over him and he kinda looked like a rag doll and was easily turned over. He looks so lifeless  I don't know what to do.

The air pump I ordered is actually at UPS right now and it's 2 seconds away. I'm thinking about picking it up. Not sure if he's getting enough air...


----------



## Wolfie305

I'm on my break from work so I came home. The pump was delivered so I set it up (it's a Tetra Whisper like my filter, but it's still pretty loud.. ). 

He's not looking good. He went into the air bubbles and was tossed across the tank. He's nose down a lot...could this be swim bladder? Maybe from the carrots/apples yesterday? Little Ro is perfectly happy and healthy, so I can't see it being a disease..


----------



## thekoimaiden

Oh dear, Kelsey. More fins falling off isn't good. The old ones shouldn't fall off; new fins just grow on the end. It does sound like something is infecting him. Gasping, lethargy, and fin loss are not good signs. This is out of my fish veterinary scope. I would go here The GAB View forum - Help! My Fish is Sick! (it's a goldfish-specific forum that has wonderfully smart people) and ask their opinions. You could also try to PM Lupin as he is another user who is extremely knowledgeable about goldfish. In the meantime keep up your water changes and test the water. If you're having an ammonia spike this will contribute to his problems. Wishing you the best.


----------



## Wolfie305

I was JUST looking on there and in a thread with a fish that was having similar problems. I have to head back to work, but I'll make a thread as soon as I'm back (in a half hour). 

I feel so terrible  It's a beautiful day for walking dogs (my job) today and I can't enjoy it because I keep thinking about my poor baby 

The ammonia has been good and I've been doing the water changes. It just kills me that he was looking so good yesterday.. gave me some hope.


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## djembekah

i'm crossing my fingers for your little guy!


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## Wolfie305

Bekah - Thank you, it means a lot to hear that <3

I just posted on the GAB forums. Here's to hoping..


----------



## djembekah

<3 is he feeling better?


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## Wolfie305

No


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## djembekah

still very hopeful for you!


----------



## Fishguy2727

A varied diet is an attempt at achieving the main goal of complete and balanced nutrition. A high quality prepared food is a variety of ingredients that together provide complete and balanced nutrition. 

Still feeding a few veggies is one thing, but I wouldn't do it in excess (maybe once or twice a week max). Effectively the whole diet should be a high quality pellet. This is what my fancy goldfish get and they grow VERY well and do try to breed in the tank on a regular basis.


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## thekoimaiden

We have obviously come to different conclusions on what constitutes good goldfish nutrition. Regardless, we both agree NLS is a good food for Kelsey's fish, and that's all that really matters in this thread. There is a fish food thread somewhere on the TFK boards. That is the time and place to debate fish nutrition. To do so here is the derail her thread.


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## Wolfie305

Fus passed away this morning  I kept him in his little hospital tank by my bed because I had a feeling it was the end. He was alive when I woke up, but when I came out of the shower he was gone... I miss him already. 

Now I'll have to keep a close eye on Ro. She's doing fine and I did a 75% water change this morning and added salt to just to be sure. Ammonia is at 0 and my master test kit should be here soon. 

I know goldfish are companion fish, so once I know my tank is healthy and cycled, I think I'll get her a friend. I don't want her to be lonely.. 

And just from reading things online and talking to others who have goldfish, I still agree with fruits/veggies being part of my fish's diet along with the NLS food.


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## Termato

Wolfie305 said:


> Fus passed away this morning  I kept him in his little hospital tank by my bed because I had a feeling it was the end. He was alive when I woke up, but when I came out of the shower he was gone... I miss him already.
> 
> Now I'll have to keep a close eye on Ro. She's doing fine and I did a 75% water change this morning and added salt to just to be sure. Ammonia is at 0 and my master test kit should be here soon.
> 
> I know goldfish are companion fish, so once I know my tank is healthy and cycled, I think I'll get her a friend. I don't want her to be lonely..
> 
> And just from reading things online and talking to others who have goldfish, I still agree with fruits/veggies being part of my fish's diet along with the NLS food.


Poor Fus!! RIP. Sorry about ur fish. Yeah hopefully with the test kit you will know for sure if it any of the parameters.

Someone suggested lettuce to me.


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## thekoimaiden

*Hugs* I'm so sorry you lost Fus. Try to think of the positives. You made his last days so much better by giving him a 10 gal. He had good food, clean water, and lots of swimming spaces. 

If you see Ro start to look depressed you could try to put a mirror beside her tank. It will give her a "buddy" to play with until things get better and you can give her a real buddy.


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## djembekah

i'm so sorry. you did him a lot of good though


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## Wolfie305

Thanks guys <3

Koimaiden - That's a good idea!


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## Wolfie305

I posted this in the goldfish forum, but I'll post it here too:

I just have a question about my remaining fish, Ro. I just got home from school and it was pitch black in my room and I went in to check on her. She was lying near the bottom (in her usual spot behind the plants/filter), normally, and breathing normally. Was she just sleeping? She looks perfectly healthy (her fins are in perfect condition and I don't see anything weird). 

She saw me and kinda darted across the tank and under her log. I feel like she's mad at me... She was always the shy one so it's not super unusual behavior but I'm just paranoid now.


----------



## thekoimaiden

If you turned on the light from a pitch black room, then that was probably what scared her. Fish eyes are different from ours and need around an hour or so to adjust to different light levels. She wasn't scared of you, just startled by the lights. 

But I'm glad to hear that she isn't showing signs of disease. Maybe with a "mirror buddy" she will begin to perk up and come out of hiding. I have a few koi that won't move from the safety of their hidey hole unless one of the larger ones is by his side.


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## Wolfie305

Well I had the lights on for a minute, noticed her in her corner, and then she kinda darted afterward. I'll go set up that mirror as soon as Paarthurnax's new log boils (just moved him to his new tank yesterday).

My poor Fus


----------



## Wolfie305

Ro is still looking good and eating. Just did her water change. My test kit should be here today or tomorrow yay!

How do I know when the cycle is complete? I know I'm probably no where near the finish line, but I'm just curious. It has something to do with the presence of nitrate/nitrite right?


----------



## thekoimaiden

Ya. Cycles can take months to finish. You're probably just in the ammonia phase of the cycle. You will know the cycle is over when you consistently test 0 for ammonia and nitrite (the next phase) and have nitrate present at levels higher than in your tap water. You'll also want to test your tap water so we know if there is any extra ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate coming into your tank.


----------



## MaisyDawgThirteen

I'm so sorry about Fus . . .  Like koimaiden said, he was much happier to live his last days in a 10 gallon.

My guppies lie down at night, too. Just chillax-in.


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## Olympia

No! Fus  Poor baby 
My fish sleep too, it's weird if you ask me. She's probably really depressed about her friend, I'm guessing. The mirror is a cool idea, I agree.
I think when your tank is cycled you have to keep nitrates under 40ppm?


----------



## Wolfie305

Ro is still doing good and eating and swimming along. 

I got my test kit today, yay! 

TAP WATER:
pH = 7.6
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 0ppm
Ammonia = 0ppm
High Range pH (what is this?) = 7.4 

MY TANK:
pH = 7.3
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 0ppm
Ammonia = 0ppm


----------



## thekoimaiden

I'm glad to hear little Ro is doing well. Still baffled as to what killed Fus. 

About the tests: there are two pH test, one for the higher range (up to 8) and one for the lower range (down to 6). You just have to figure out which one fits your water better by testing a few times. I have tap water around the same range, and it's kinda difficult to figure out exactly where mine is. I estimate about 7.5 when the pH is showing its about 7.6 and the high range pH is saying about 7.4. 

Your tank parameters are looking great! Just keep an eye out for ammonia and nitrite.


----------



## Wolfie305

Everything is still looking good. My boyfriend had an old 10gal aquarium hood with lights that we found the other day. I just replaced the light bulbs. So I picked up some hornwort today  Now, should I QT this plant? I don't believe there were any fish in his tank, just other plants.


----------



## Wolfie305

Oh, I also have a question about snails/crabs. I hear all sorts of things about these critters and I'm wondering if they would help my tank at all? (even my betta tank?)

Or would they just contribute to the waste/ammonia while my tank cycles? Do they even get along with goldies?


----------



## Olympia

Crabs need access to air.. Fiddler crabs are brackish water, hermits are only land crabs.
If you mean shrimp, they are fine for betta, some eat them. Shrimp can clean left over food.. Snails produce a lot of ammonia. 
I'm sure there's some shrimp that could live in a Goldie tank, but I don't know if they'd be eaten.


----------



## Wolfie305

I used to hatch brine shrimp all the time in high school as food for our zebra fish - such a neat thing!

And when you say access to air I assume you mean some sort of patch of land for them and not just an airstone? I saw crabs at Walmart last night and they were just in the tanks with the fish - poor guys!


----------



## Olympia

Those crabs will sadly die slowly ;(
If you like crabs, after you set up a bigger Goldie tank you could set the 10gal up for crabs.
Red claw crabs and fiddler crabs are pretty common. Both need brackish water (half fresh half ocean water). Filling a tank halfway and adding land with rocks or driftwood can look nice. The thing about them is that pet stores usually keep them in fresh water, which slowly kills them, so you may want to wait until they have a new shipment.
Hermit crabs are more popular, and little known is the fact that they need BOTH salt and fresh water, in separate shallow bowls, or they can drown. They are mostly land dwellers.
Crabs are not being bred in captivity, if wild caught bugs you then crabs are not for you.
I love crabbies, if you can't tell and I'd love a set up someday :3


----------



## thekoimaiden

Great to hear you got some hornwort! I would QT it just in case. You've already lost one goldie, don't want to risk the other. Just set it in a bowl near a window for about a week. This will also give you a chance to look for things that could come with it. I've even heard of people getting baby fish with plants. 

Snails and goldies... don't go well together. Mostly because goldfish see them as food. The only snails that I have been able to keep with my goldies were burrowing, nocturnal snails. And even then, a lot still get eaten. So if a few snuck in with your plant, don't worry: they will just become goldie food.


----------



## Wolfie305

Okay great! Thanks for that information. I'm excited to put it in for them  That would be kinda neat if I got baby fish with it hahahaha.

And thanks to everyone on the info about crabs/snails. I guess they're not the best thing for my tank haha.


----------



## Wolfie305

I went to feed Ro this morning and noticed she had a small, white string of poop (I assume) come from her anal fin area. I just did some Googling and I'm getting mixed answers. 

Some say it's from not being fed enough/not being fed a good food, which could definitely be the case because I've been keeping the feeding to a minimum so the ammonia stays down. She also seems to only be eating the flakes, which is just an Aqueon brand food, instead of the apples pieces I've been dropping in there. She's probably not getting good nutrition. I looked for NLS at PetSmart/PetCo and neither had it D:

Other answers I got were internal parasites :C

Edit: Water quality this morning before water change:
pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0

Ammonia is at 0 now, still adding salt. 

I just looked at this article from GAB - http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/what-is-wrong-with-my-fish.html#WhitePoop 

It's making me feel a little better. The string of poo coming from Ro was no where near as big as the one in the picture. It wasn't even passed her tail. And her food is somewhat light in color.


----------



## thekoimaiden

I don't think you have much to worry about. The long poop in the GAB photo is what you need to look out for. Sometimes when one of my goldies has been munching on a lot of algae, they will get a longer than average poop, but it is always the same color as their food. 

For food: single-tail goldfish aren't as prone to bloat due to bad food as the fancies, so NLS isn't a desperate need. I went looking through the brands of food that can be found at Petsmart and Petco, and I did find something that will be good for your little guy: Omega One goldfish flakes. Omega One is another good brand that doesn't get as much press as NLS. If you can find Omega One flakes or pellets you'll be in pretty good shape.


----------



## Wolfie305

Awesome! I have seen Omega One at PetSmart, so I'll pick some of that up. I was in my room a little while ago and she was pooping again, but this time it was a normal color so that made me feel better.


----------



## thekoimaiden

That's good. She could have just nibbled something odd. Goldfish poop is the color of their food, so when I feed a lot of different things during the week I vacuum up rainbow poops. :lol:


----------



## Wolfie305

LOL!! Too funny. I gotta get her some more fruits and veggies. My mom threw out a bunch of stuff we had and now all that's left are apples and tomatoes (are tomatoes okay?)

I just remembered I'm going to be gone for three days (Friday, Saturday, and I'll be back Sunday night). I assume she cannot go three days without a water change right? My parents are usually very good about feeding them if I'm not going to be around, so hopefully one of them will be willing to do water changes... D:


----------



## thekoimaiden

I don't know about tomatoes. I've never heard anything about them. 

As for your vacation, I wouldn't have your parents feed Ro. Feeding contributes to ammonia which means water changes. I think if you can do a change on Friday before you leave and Sunday when you get back you should be fine if you don't feed Ro.


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## Wolfie305

Awesome, I like that much better than having them changing the water. There is always a chance something can go wrong if I'm not the one doing it >.<


----------



## Fishguy2727

Definitely feed pellets if at all possible. It fills them up better and keeps the tank cleaner. 

NLS can be found at Petco and is a better food than Omega One. Omega One is definitely up there with good second options to NLS (Hikari Lionhead, Omega One, etc.) but IME NLS is a much better option. 

Just because a fish is hardier to the problems with lower quality foods doesn't make them any better for the fish. Go with the best you can find.


----------



## Olympia

Don't goldfish need different food? Not seeing any goldfish NLS on petco :s
If this food comes out much more expensive, I dno if it does, but I think priority 1 should be getting that comet into more than 10 gal. of water, then better food.


----------



## Fishguy2727

Yes, bigger tank is vital. 

It doesn't have to say goldfish. Any of the NLS is fine. The Thera+A has enough garlic to kill some parasites so I recommend that one. Any of the 'regulars' are fine ('cichlid', 'discus', 'community', etc.). 

No. No fish needs variety. Variety is a classic way to try to get proper nutrition that we have all been trained on. But the main goal is complete and balanced nutrition. NLS does this on its own and does it better on its own than with anything mixed in. I know this is the exact opposite of what most people think, but variety is not a nutrient and is not vital for nutrition. I have not found any other foods that I would trust to feed exclusively besides NLS.


----------



## Bombalurina

I confess, I feed NLS cichlid pellets to my bettas. They have a much better ingredient list than any of the betta specific foods readily available, and I got them for free, so it seemed sensible.


----------



## Olympia

But there is no reason not to feed veggies. Some people like to treat their fish 
Also- I will be looking into this food for when I get my community.


----------



## Wolfie305

I have the money for the bigger tank, I'm just waiting to hear back from a few more people before I make the decision. One woman was selling the tank with a metal stand (which won't stand well on my carpet floor) for a lot more money than a few others selling the same tank with better (and nicer) stands. Of course, she's the only one who has replied so far and she offered to sell me just the tank, so I might go for it if I don't hear back from anyone else within the week.


----------



## Olympia

I'm really envious that your parents aren't saying anything about this. I'd be out after I said 50 gallons


----------



## Bombalurina

If you are worried about the stand hurting your carpet, get a sheet of wood to put underneath it. It will prevent you getting stand marks - you'll just get a bit of a rectangular impression instead.


----------



## Wolfie305

Olympia - Believe me, they aren't too happy. Every time I plug something in they mention the electric bill xD. 

And once they see how big a 55gal tank is, I don't think I'll be able to keep it in my room anymore (I actually don't even have the space in my room unless I take out the piece of furniture the current tank is on, which I planned on doing but my mom will have something to say about that).

Kinda why I'm hoping to be moving soon. Graduating in May and I had an interview for a "real" job with a salary last week so fingers crossed LOL.

I swear I feel like I just had an unexpected infant and I'm trying to prepare last minute xD. Darn those fishies for being too cute


----------



## Wolfie305

Bombalurina said:


> If you are worried about the stand hurting your carpet, get a sheet of wood to put underneath it. It will prevent you getting stand marks - you'll just get a bit of a rectangular impression instead.


Oh that's not a bad idea. I wasn't worried about the carpet, I was worried about the tank rocking from being on a non-hard surface xD. 

I did just find a nice 55gal stand on Craigslist so I might see what that person says.


----------



## Olympia

Yay! 55'gallons should hold Ro over for a pretty good amount of time I think.


----------



## Wolfie305

Yeah, I really don't want to go any smaller than that (even though it would give me an excuse to have more tanks >_> )


----------



## thekoimaiden

A surprise baby is a good analogy! With all the water changes (diaper changes) and accessories that need to be bought, you might as well have had a baby! Maybe you'll bring you parents around by saying: "It could be worse, this could be a pregnancy!" 

A 55 gal should hold you for a while. The water changes will be larger, but they will be more spaced out (probably once a week, but you'll have to test the water and see). And you'll be able to get Ro some nice friends. You'll know it's time to get them out of there when they start to get as long as the tank is wide. From the 55 gal you will either want to think about a 125 gal or a pond.


----------



## Wolfie305

Hahaha yes, exactly xD

Awesome info. I am excited for the 55gal whenever I finally get one. I went into PetSmart tonight and those tanks are bigger than me o.o 

Also, Marimo Moss Balls, can I put one in my goldfish tank?! I was just reading up on them here after seeing them at PetSmart (I have seen them before in the betta section, but was too busy looking at the bettas lol). I want to get one for Paarth and one for Ro if it's okay to put in her tank 8D


----------



## thekoimaiden

Haha! Ya. I have to stand on a stool to reach into my 55 gal without getting my shirt wet. It's not something you want to try to move on your own. Take a sturdy guy friend or two. 

Moss balls are great in goldfish tanks! I have two in with my guys, and they love to roll the moss balls around and nibble on them. Plus, it might give little Ro another something to hide behind lol!


----------



## Wolfie305

Oh gosh yeah. I weigh like nothing, I probably couldn't even budge it LOL!

And yay! Sounds adorable. Ro loves to hide  She did stick around for me today though so I'm hoping she'll come around soon. She was always shy and Fus was always the curious guy.

They're real cheap on ebay and I just ordered one for Paarth there. Gonna go to PetCo tomorrow to see their prices on my way to school (I pass both PetSmart and PetCo so I practically live at those stores now xD).

Also, I got her Omega One goldfish flakes today (no NLS at PetSmart) 

I get worried for Ro though come feeding time. She doesn't go to the surface for food like Fus did. Instead, she waits until she sees it being tossed around by the filter and eats it towards the bottom. I feel like she's not getting enough that way  Hopefully she will realize she can get more at the top eventually.


----------



## ZergyMonster

Sooner or later she will realize that you're the one feeding her so don't be to worried that she isn't coming to the surface for food just yet. Once my goldfish figured that out they would always nibble at the surface of the water thinking I was going to feed them when I got near the tank. :-D


----------



## thekoimaiden

Oddly enough, shy fish often come out more when there are more hiding spots. Maybe the marimo will help her be more social!

Goldfish are browsers. They spend most of their day searching for food and eating. That's why they don't have a large stomach. That's why the best way to feed them is a little at a time 3-4 times a day as it best mimics their natural feeding habits and is kindest on their digest system. So don't worry if she doesn't eat all the food at once. As long as there isn't any fouling up the water, then its perfectly fine to let her forage from the bottom. Heck, it's what my goldfish spend all day doing.


----------



## Wolfie305

I swear I'm going to freak if something is happening to Ro. 

Woke up this morning and did a water change. Noticed that one of her two tail fins was split partially. The tail is still a healthy white and the only other weird thing I see are two white blobs - one on her dorsal fin and one on her anal fin I think, towards the tip. I wanna say I've seen them before on her, so it could just be her, but she was clamping a lot this morning and lying down. She was eating though.

I still have that fungul stuff I bought and I'm going to pick up some Maracyn Two at PetCo today just to have just in case...


----------



## thekoimaiden

Do you have any pictures of her? Also I'm sure the GAB would like to hear about this. I think they can offer you more advice than I can. This is really strange...


----------



## Olympia

Oh no! She has to pull through!!

Just a thought, could it be that this was nothing you did? They are comets, probably were badly bred 15'cent fish, maybe not sick but weaker in general?


----------



## Wolfie305

I just made a thread on the GAB with some pictures. She can't die on me too


----------



## Wolfie305

Koimaiden - Silke said that I should remove the filter and cycle it in a bucket of ammonia. I'm about to leave in a bit to go to PetSmart so if I can pick it up now, I will, but I'm not sure what he's talking about. Is that something I can just buy? Ammonia?(as silly as that sounds lol). 

He hasn't responded so I was wondering if you might be online as well :3


----------



## Olympia

I don't think pet stores sell ammonia.. It'd be in a grocery store in the cleaning section.. Just make sure the only two ingredients are water and ammonia


----------



## Wolfie305

Thank you very much for that info. Never knew you could buy ammonia LOL.


----------



## Olympia

Yea, apparently it's good for cleaning things like your bathtub and toilet... xD


----------



## Wolfie305

Interesting xDDD


----------



## Wolfie305

In case anyone wants to follow Ro's health, here is the thread on GAB I'm posting in. Feel free to comment on it on here, I can use all the help I can get. I will not let this little girl die on me like poor Fus did :C

http://thegab.org/index.php?option=...le=viewtopic.php&f=4&t=24085&p=319236#p319236


----------



## thekoimaiden

Me and mine are sending positive fish thoughts you way, Kelsey. Silke and Karrie (Mz RO) are wonderfully smart and resourceful people. You're in good hands. I'm sorry I couldn't be here for you earlier. I was just figuring out my solution to a crisis I've been having.


----------



## Wolfie305

Thank you <33

I have no doubts about GAB <3 I just hope we can nip this in the bud before it's too late..


----------



## Wolfie305

Oh, another question about the moss ball - should that be QT'ed too? I just picked one up at PetSmart (and ordered one off ebay) because they keep them in their own cups where as PetCo keeps them in tanks with other fish and I didn't want to risk any more problems.


----------



## Hanky

From what I've read here is that some people have trouble finding "pure ammonia", which it must be, no scents or added soap stuff, just ammonia and water, I understand they sometimes find it at Ace Hardware stores if you have one by you. good luck


----------



## Wolfie305

Hanky - Great! I believe we have an Ace somewhere around here so I'll have to check it out


----------



## thekoimaiden

Actually just letting the cup sit in indirect sunlight for a few days with QT the marimo just fine. You can change out the water with some tank water by turkey baster, if you like. But you have the right idea. Once you get a healthy environment never introduce something with QT. :thumbsup:


----------



## Wolfie305

Awesome! I still have my hornwort sitting in a bowl of water by the window so I'll leave the marimo next to him  

And yes, I've heard some bad things about not QTing new additions so I don't want to risk anymore problems than I already have D:


----------



## djembekah

i learned surfactants are no nos too. i didnt use my ammonia, but found out after i bought it x3


----------



## Wolfie305

Update on Ro - still doing good and eating. Nothing with her fin has changed and there is no sign of browning like there was with Fus, so I'm convinced she caught it on something. 

She is flashing/rubbing, however, which worries me, but I'm getting help from the GAB so hopefully I can clear up whatever is bothering her.


----------



## Wolfie305

Might be getting the tank soon! I posted a "wanted" ad in the Boston section of Craigslist because I go to school in Newton on Mondays and Wednesdays and I got back a lot of replies!

One guy has a 55 gallon, with the stand and lots of accessories that he is willing to sell to me for only $50! Just waiting to see if he has any pictures and where he is located. Also gotta hope the tank fits in my car.... might have to come back for the stand on Wednesday lol.


----------



## thekoimaiden

That is awesome! $50 for a 55 gal is a steal!! Congrats!!

How is little Ro doing?


----------



## Wolfie305

So far she's doing good. Whenever I walk into the room, she's not clamping. As soon as I stick my face near the tank to watch her, she clamps. Will they clamp if they are nervous? I would feel much better knowing that was the reason for her clamping, but it still doesn't explain the flashing I've been seeing every so often.


----------



## djembekah

yay! i can't wait for you to get the big tank! and i'm glad Ro is well :3


----------



## ZergyMonster

$50 is a complete steal for a 55 gallon, I hope you get it. Also I hope Ro is feeling better.


----------



## thekoimaiden

Ro could be clamping because she is nervous. I have a goldfish who will begin to turn red in the fins if I've had my hands in the tank for too long or have spent a few hours with my face close to the glass (ironically enough trying to examine this fish for signs of disease). If you think she is lonely, you could try the mirror trick. When I had to put my veiltail in QT to treat for fungus my ryukin began to get nervous without a buddy. I found that a mirror about the height of the tank really helped him calm down.


----------



## finnfinnfriend

thekoimaiden said:


> Ro could be clamping because she is nervous. I have a goldfish who will begin to turn red in the fins if I've had my hands in the tank for too long or have spent a few hours with my face close to the glass (ironically enough trying to examine this fish for signs of disease). If you think she is lonely, you could try the mirror trick. When I had to put my veiltail in QT to treat for fungus my ryukin began to get nervous without a buddy. I found that a mirror about the height of the tank really helped him calm down.


you had a betta in with a goldfish?


----------



## Olympia

Veil tail goldfish


----------



## finnfinnfriend

Olympia said:


> Veil tail goldfish


Oooooh okay hehe :lol:


----------



## thekoimaiden

Haha. Ya. Veiltail can also be used to describe fancy goldfish with very long fins. They're about as long as her body! 

How is little Ro holding up?


----------



## Wolfie305

Wow sorry for the absence. I had my convention this weekend so I was away from the computer. Ro is holding up good and my dad was able to keep her fed and I changed her water when I got back


----------



## thekoimaiden

That's the kind of update that we love! I'm really glad to hear little Ro is doing well.


----------



## Wolfie305

I'm so glad too. I didn't want to start the whole "take out the filter and put it in a bucket ammonia" while I was away for the weekend like the GAB suggested, but I think I'll start that soon to help speed up the cycle.


----------



## PhishPhreak

answered my questions too! thanks!


----------



## Wolfie305

So funny story.

Went to my friend's house with my boyfriend because he was having an issue with his TV and wanted Nick to look at it. Get to house and I noticed he had a HUGE (I assumed 55 gal) tank just hanging out in his little screen house that leads inside the house. I got excited. 

Asked him if he was planning on getting rid of it because it was outside and he asked his mom. His mom told me someone had given it to her with all the stuff (hood, light, filter system, etc), but it wasn't big enough for her bearded dragons, so she was just going to sell it across the street.

Long story short, she gave it to me for FREE!! Now all I need is a nice stand. She told me her nephew told her it was 45 gallons, but I'm going to pick it up tomorrow and measure it and see. It's really long and not so much wide, but wide enough for them to turn around even when big.


----------



## ZergyMonster

Very nice, hope Ro enjoys his new home.


----------



## djembekah

nice freebie!!!


----------



## thekoimaiden

Awesome find!!!! Even if it is just a 40 gallon it will still be a great upgrade and large enough to get little Ro a friend!!


----------



## Wolfie305

YAY!! Glad to hear that  My friend brought it over today. It just needs some serious cleaning and attention and a stand. What should I clean it with? Any suggestions?


----------



## thekoimaiden

If it just needs a rinse, vinegar is great! It'll smell funny but it works wonders. If you see some spots that need scrubbing, a thick paste of baking soda works great. It got 3-year old hard water stains out of a betta bowl for me. All it took was a bit of elbow grease. Bleach can also be used, but I only like to use it as a last-ditch method. 

How is little Ro's tail? Does it look like it is healing?


----------



## Wolfie305

It looks like it hasn't got any worse, but hasn't healed yet. The base of her tail was little red though. She was also kinda acting lethargic these past few days, but NO clamping and eating normally. She comes to the top to eat now :3


----------



## Olympia

Aw, probably coming out of her shell finally.  
Are you getting her a friend after everything's 100%? 
To my understanding it'll have to be a comet/shubunkin, no fancies.


----------



## Wolfie305

Definitely want to get her a friend (I want three, but I dunno if the tabk is big enough). I really want pearlscale goldfish omg they are so cute, but I feel I should stick with comets for now.


----------



## Olympia

Yea, I hear the size difference can lead to bullying. Ones like pearlscales would have a hard time competing with a fast comet. 
Maybe a pair of pearlscales in the 40 after Ro moves out  I love pearlscales too


----------



## thekoimaiden

Ya, Olympia is right. A pearlscale and a comet wouldn't make the greatest of friends due to the size difference and the speed difference. It's best to keep single-tails with single-tails and double-tails with double-tails. But the 40 gallons will be just the right size to put a pair of pearlscales in when the comets get a larger home!


----------



## Wolfie305

So pearlscales need big tanks too? I will totally use this when I upgrade then 

They THINK it's a 45 gallon, but I still gotta measure it. It's pretty huge hahaha.


----------



## Bombalurina

I would a get shubunkin to go with the comet. The calico ones with the dark eyes are so purdy.


----------



## Wolfie305

Shubunkinare very pretty :3 Are they as hardy as comets? I feel I'm still too inexperienced with goldfish to get something that can't withstand my lack of knowledge like the comets can xD.


----------



## Bombalurina

They are still very hardy fish.


----------



## MaisyDawgThirteen

I think petsmart sells shubunkin goldies.


----------



## Olympia

What happened to the three goldfish your cousin(?) had in a bowl from the same party?


----------



## MaisyDawgThirteen

Olympia said:


> What happened to the three goldfish your cousin(?) had in a bowl from the same party?


I was wondering that too . . .


----------



## Wolfie305

She is somehow keeping them alive (she lost 1) in a tiny goldfish bowl, while I'm spending hundreds of dollars in AQ stuff and still having problems. 

Ro is going down the same path as Fus. I woke up this morning and a lot of her tail is missing and looking like his did. I'm about to freak out. 

I don't want to wait any longer and I want to use meds. I went out and bought Maracyn AND Maracyn Two because I read that it's good to use them at the same time, but I won't do anything yet.

I am giving up on goldfish if I lose her.


----------



## djembekah

oh no poor Ro!!


----------



## Wolfie305

She's acting totally normal, she's not clamping, she's eating and actually being outgoing. So that makes me feel better, but there's definitely something going on. I'm so upset 

Also, I retract my statement about giving up on goldfish. That's a total lie. I can't give up, I'm already in love with goldfish and put a lot of time and effort into the ones I have/had <3


----------



## thekoimaiden

I'm sorry I haven't been around much. I've got a heartbreak story of my own right now. But I'm pullin for you little Ro! I can't remember or not whether you have AQ salt in the water. Neither can I remember what you said your water hardness is.


----------



## Wolfie305

I'm so sorry you're having problems as well. What happened?  

I stopped using AQ salt about 2 weeks ago after reading recommendations on GAB on when to stop. I just changed her water and added 1 tsp per gallon, however.

Really stupid question (that I should know after 4 years of ET), but how do I determine the hardness again?


----------



## thekoimaiden

My cat has a mouth tumor, and we've been getting her to eat pretty well for the past month. But she suddenly stopped eating yesterday. Because we don't want her to starve to death, it's looking like we're going to have to put her down this week. So I'm not really on top of my game right now. But this thread is for your little Ro. We'll focus on her here. 

Okay so no salt. Be sure to tell the GAB that. Water hardness can usually be found online at your local water treatment plant's website. It should also have the pH of your water. If that info isn't there you could either buy a test kit or call them. Goldfish like hard water, and being in soft water does cause problems as I've found out with my guys.


----------



## Hanky

thekoimaiden said:


> My cat has a mouth tumor, and we've been getting her to eat pretty well for the past month. But she suddenly stopped eating yesterday. Because we don't want her to starve to death, it's looking like we're going to have to put her down this week. So I'm not really on top of my game right now. But this thread is for your little Ro. We'll focus on her here.
> 
> Okay so no salt. Be sure to tell the GAB that. Water hardness can usually be found online at your local water treatment plant's website. It should also have the pH of your water. If that info isn't there you could either buy a test kit or call them. Goldfish like hard water, and being in soft water does cause problems as I've found out with my guys.


It doesnt matter who started this thread or why it was started, our thoughts and prayers are with you and your kitty. It is such a hard decision to make but in the long run you'll feel good that you did the best for tour little princess. God bless

Of coarse we also wish the best for little Ro


----------



## Bombalurina

*hugs* for KoiMaiden! 

Do you have a hardness test kit, Wolfie? It should test GH and KH.


----------



## djembekah

they have hardness kits at home depot i am pretty sure. i've been thinking about getting one.


----------



## Wolfie305

Like Hanky said, it doesn't matter this thread is about, we're all here to support you and be concerned with any of your babies. I really hope your cat recovers.

Bomba - I'll see if I can get one today, but I believe Cape Cod water is soft. I remember hearing that all the time in high school.

Ro's rot is spreading to her dorsal fin. Waiting for the people at the GAB to give me the okay to treat her. I really don't want to wait any longer after what happened with Fus..


----------



## thekoimaiden

Thanks for all the support guys. I don't have any good news to share, tho. We had to put my 14-year-old cat down yesterday. We didn't want her to starve or suffocate to death. She is still in my current pets album; I don't have the hear to move her yet. I'm still very torn up, and that's why I haven't been on much lately.  

I wish I could be more help, Kelsey. I'm sorry. I hope the GAB can take care of you.


----------



## Olympia

Awww no Izzy <3 I'm sure your kitty had a great long life with you guys <3

I don't know if this sounds ridiculous, but I've heard of people cutting the fin rot off in serious cases >-< I'm only bringing it up because it seems like some crazy fast infection.. I'd ask the goldfish forum about it though.


----------



## Wolfie305

So sorry, Izzy :C 

Olympia - Oh god knowing my luck she would die from that :C Treating with salt and she's still alive, still eating. Just lethargic. Sigh


----------



## djembekah

i think with cutting infected fins off you have to keep the water, like, PRISTINE so no infections happened


----------



## Wolfie305

I just took a picture of her for the GAB. She looks so terrible, I don't want to post it out of sheer heartache. My poor baby. What am I doing wrong to make them go through this? 

At least she is still eating and she seems a lot more perky with the salt treatment. I just hope her poor fins will recover somewhat..


----------



## Olympia

It opens up room for fin rot to return..
But you should keep water pristine with any illness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfie305

Exactly. I had ANOTHER freakin ammonia spike (not huge, it was .50 but still) a few days ago. So I have been changing her water twice a day now and checking for ammonia 3 times a day @[email protected]


----------



## thekoimaiden

I saw her picture on the GAB. :s I really hope she pulls through. I know how dedicated you are, and I have faith that you and the GAB can solve this. Just remember, they are much better off here than thrown in the backyard. 

This might help with the ammonia problem: double dose your dechlorinator when you add water to the tank. It will help detoxify any ammonia that is left in the tank for about 24 hours. However, it will still show up in your ammonia test. Are you using Prime?


----------



## Wolfie305

Yes, I do use Prime.


----------



## Hanky

I've kinda been following this thread although I cant offer any advice, Knock on wood i've never had to deal with fin rot. just wondering though what does GAB stand for?


----------



## thekoimaiden

Hanky, the GAB is a goldfish-centric board. It specifically stands for Goldfish and Aquarium Board. Here is their website if you want to check it out: theGAB.org. 

Kelsey, great. Prime is the best available and very easy to double dose. Since you are changing the water ever day, add a double dose of prime when you put water back in to detox any ammonia left in the tank. Any little boost we can give your little Ro is going to be good.


----------



## Hanky

Oh cool, thanks i will check them out since I have three goldies of my own.


----------



## Wolfie305

So far they have been awesome. I was a little too late getting to them for Fus, but Ro seems to be much better activity wise than Fus was. 

Her entire tail is now gone, there are no frays left or anything. The rest of her fins seem to be in the same condition though, which means they haven't got any worse.


----------



## Olympia

Oh no! How's she swimming?


----------



## Wolfie305

She's actually really perky and active and such a sweetie now. Her personality has really come out! She hasn't been laying at the bottom or anything, but I assume its harder for her to swim now the poor baby


----------



## Wolfie305

I bought Ro a zucchini while I was getting stuff for her medicated food and I was wondering if I was supposed to cook it first? Or do I give it raw?


----------



## Olympia

I think you're supposed to "blanch" it. Which is basically bring water to a boil, and pop it in for 30 seconds to a minute.


----------



## thekoimaiden

Blanching or freezing works. I sliced my zucchini into half circles and frozen them like that. Every once in a while I bring out a half circle, let it thaw and chop it up. One zucchini has lasted me months like this. Have you made the medicated food yet? It.. uh... kinda smelled when I made mine.


----------



## Wolfie305

I did make the food today for the Maracyn 1 and my hands STILL smell like sardines x.x 

For the Maracyn II, I hope I do the measurements right. I suck so bad at math.


----------



## thekoimaiden

Ya. That's one downside of it! My house reaked of them for at least a day. Let us know how Ro eats the medicated food!


----------



## Olympia

You feed them sardines? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfie305

Sardines and baby food, teehee


----------



## thekoimaiden

The sardines go in the medicated gel food recipe, Olympia. Fish protein is the best for fish to eat, so when we make goldfish food we usually add oily fish like sardines and salmon. Sardines are used in medicated food because they have a stronger odor than salmon. My salmon gel food doesn't smell half as bad as the sardine stuff did.


----------



## Wolfie305

Little Ro's personality is really starting to show these last two weeks - she is so sweet and curious now. She looks at me straight on with her adorable little face every time I go to the tank now, and eats like a champ. 

I wonder though, she literally has NOT grown. Is this bad or is she just a slow developer? She's still as small as she was when I got her D: 

Also, I decided to make a "tutorial" on preparing the zucchini for anyone who sees my blog  Let me know if I did something wrong D: 

http://fortheloveoffish.tumblr.com/


----------



## djembekah

iunno but *followfollowfollow* i love fish blogs ; 3;


----------



## Wolfie305

D


----------



## djembekah

your fish are so cute! i feel like i haven't seen enough pictures of them x33


----------



## Wolfie305

Yeah, I have a hard time getting decent pictures of them because I have a really nice camera XD! I know that sounds ridiculous, but the more expensive/professional the camera is, the harder it is to take pictures sometimes. I need like lots of light, a steady hand, and a steadier subject (lets face it, fish are hard to photograph). 

I have a flash, but I prefer natural lighting so I have a flash scoop, which I should really try with my fish. However, I don't have one of those fancy professional flashes that freeze everything without washing everything out and making it look crappy.

Alduin's tank gets good light and Ro gets a small window of good light during the day, but poor Paarth is in the corner on the same wall the window is, so he doesn't get as much. I can take the bettas out and photograph them in their cups if I want, but I haven't tried with Ro yet because she's not feeling well and I don't want to stress her out. I need some good pictures of her though when she's better.


----------



## djembekah

yeah. she's such a pretty girl ^-^

and i just take pictures anymore with my DSi. i need a new camera but that's a hundred bucks i could be buying fish with xD


----------



## Wolfie305

She is, I adore her. I hope her beautiful tail comes back  

LOL!! I know what you mean. Camera stuff is super expensive anyway x.x


----------



## djembekah

since i'm not a photographer i just need one that turns on @[email protected] i think i quit kodak cameras forever lol


----------



## thekoimaiden

I love your tutorial for preparing zucchini! Pictures are always great, and your dog is adorable! Is he a yellow lab? He looks like one. They hold a special place in my heart because my first pet was a yellow lab. 

I suck at fish photography, too. That's why you hardly see any pictures of my fish. I want to try to take some pictures of my bettas with natural light, but all I have are the cups which produce a warped image due to the curving.


----------



## Wolfie305

Izzy - he is a yellow lab, but more on the white side LOL! We called him a polar bear as a puppy because he totally looked like one -










Labs will always have a special place in my heart as well. I grew up with a black lab since I was 3 years old, and lost him in 2007 (the summer right before I started college too). Worst experience of my life and I miss him so much, but Deezel is a great dog and has helped me heal <3

Yeah, I need to get a glass container or something to photograph everyone in xD


----------



## thekoimaiden

Awww!! Your polar bear/puppy is soo cute. I actually have the opposite situation. I got my yellow lab when I was 7 and lost her the year after I went to college (2008). Now I have a black lab. Labs are such great dogs. <3

Actually I remember copperarabian saying that acrylic containers are best for photographing fish because light travels through them better than glass. Copper recommended getting a beanie baby case as they are tall enough, have a lid, and are a thin acrylic. I've been looking for them ever since she recommended him.


----------



## Wolfie305

OMG I have a TON of those!! I can send you one if you want?

And that's funny how closely our stories are with our labs. They are amazing dogs <3


----------



## Wolfie305

Oh man, I finally measured that tank I got from my friend for free.... it's 55 gallons!!! WHOOOOO! At least I think it is if I measured it right 

Length = 48"
Width = 13"
Height = 21"


----------



## MaisyDawgThirteen

Maisy is a lab/collie/?! mix. xD

Maisy! 
|
|
|
V


----------



## Olympia

Wow, your lab is gorgeous. All the labs I see around here are chill guys with obesity problems. Yours is so slim!
Did Ro like zuchinni?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

^^
Mine is quite overweight. lol


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## Wolfie305

Olympia - Deezel? Yeah, its all in the food and the amount you give to them. He is on Taste of the Wild, which is a dog food that is very high in protein, which means its quite fattening. I give him a half of a cup twice a day - doesn't seem like a lot, but the high protein will make him feel just as full as if he was on a lesser food, but received more. 

Combine that with a decent amount of exercise (he goes on a walk daily, sometimes every other, maybe even less) and he's at a good weight. He was actually getting a little thick for a while because my mom was giving him more food because she though half a cup was mean lol. I think he's slimmed down since then though.

Here is a good full body shot of him









As Ro did like the zucchini! It sank though and she wouldn't go down to eat it, so I'm not sure how much she actually got.


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## Tamyu

Wolfie305 said:


> As Ro did like the zucchini! It sank though and she wouldn't go down to eat it, so I'm not sure how much she actually got.


When I give my goldfish veggies, I make sure they don't sink by stringing them to a suction cup on the side wall of the tank. I run a plastic zip tie either through or around the food and the ring on the suction cup. (It is originally for air tubing, so has a ring to put the tubing through.) 
If the food is something thick, I will punch the zip tie through it and loosely dangle it. If it is something more loose, like spinach, I will roll it and pull it tight. 

I used to do it with fishing line, but found a pack of several hundred food safe mini zip ties on sale for almost nothing and they have made life easier. :-D i usually leave the food in the tank overnight (mine forage like crazy while I am sleeping...) and take out whatever is leftover in the morning. Then I cut the zip tie. 

My goldfish don't like zucchini very much, but they devour broccoli. :-D I blanch it and dangle it by the stem... They go crazy picking the little leaves (?) off the top.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

My LPS sells a veggie clip for feeding goldies!


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## thekoimaiden

Sorry I went AWOL for a while. My boyfriend's dad was in from Sweden and we spent the weekend with him. 

We feed our black lab mix A Taste of the Wild, too, but that is because she has food allergies. We get the venison. She still has that lab energy, so she gets plenty of exercise. Daily 2 mile walks, fetch, and I want to start jogging with her (mostly because I would never go without motivation lol). 

That does look like a 55 gallon tank! Congrats!! That should hold little Ro and a friend or two for a while. 

I also use a lettuce clip for my goldies. I have the basic clownfish one that you can find at any pet store. I hand feed my guys (and they actually are both males, I found breeding stars on both). That way I don't have to worry about them not getting the food. But I don't think now is a good time to start trying to hand-feed Ro because it take a few days of not eating, and she needs her meds daily.


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## Wolfie305

Ugh, I love goldfish but I don't think they love me. The one fish I have plans on taking from my cousin is flashing and darting around real bad. I'm trying to see if he has any external parasites, but I don't see anything. He was eating and would spit it out, but I guess today he didn't eat and looks kinda shocked.


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## thekoimaiden

Sometimes I thought my guys were out to get me, too. It sounds like he does have something. A goldfish that won't eat isn't good news. I wonder he could have the same thing as little Ro. I wouldn't be surprised if both were suffering from parasites. Do you know how often your cousin does water changes?


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## Wolfie305

She's doing them daily and she lives right nearby so I do it when she can't, they are just in a tiny bowl  

Ro isn't flashing and she is eating - she looks really good actually. But the big guy was acting weird this morning and looked really irritated


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## Olympia

Do you have him already?
Maybe lend her Ro's old tank?


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## thekoimaiden

I'm glad to hear that Ro is doing well. See any regrowth on her fins? 

Even with daily water changes, in a tiny bowl, those goldies are going to have it rough. When you get Ro in the 55 gallon, you should nab that little guy and put him in your 10 gallon tank. Since you have started treating Ro, I wouldn't put them together until both are healthy.


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## Wolfie305

Oh yeah I had no plans to put them together until they were both feeling better. 

I think I lost my big guy though... I took him home with me in Paarth's old tank to try and treat him. I don't see gill movement and he's been in the same spot for a few hours now. His cheeks keep twitching. Found him this morning with his fins torn JUST like Ro's were. I posted pictures on the GAB... 

And now Ro is sitting at the bottom of her tank and didn't eat today. Why me


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## Olympia

Must be something all the feeder fish get. :/


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## thekoimaiden

It's not you, Kelsey. Feeder fish get treated worse than anything else because they are seen as even more disposable than normal fish. Who knows how they were treated as fry. Dirty water and bad food could have easily caused a weak immune system. This thing that is hurting them could be something that fish with sound immune systems just shrug off and only attacks weakened fish. This is not your fault. You are doing so much more for these little guys than they would have gotten elsewhere.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen

koimaiden is right. You are doing the best you can.


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## djembekah

yeah, you make me want to rescue some feeders but i have no space for them :/ keep doing your thing!


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## Wolfie305

Thank you so much guys <3 Just hoping Ro hangs on to get that salt treatment in her enough to make her feel better. She has been looking better.

It just makes me want to go to PetSmart/PetCo and buy them all to save them from such horrible diseases like this. I went into PetCo the other day and ALL the goldfish (even fancies like the little pearlscales) had ick and were clamping. I wanted to cry.


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## djembekah

aweeee  i want pearlies.


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## Olympia

Same.. they are so adorable.
I also want a panda moor- but I've never seen one around here, just online.


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## thekoimaiden

Once you learn how to take care of goldfish all those fish in the store and those little tanks with goldfish on them make your heart break. 

Have you been able to get any garlic juice to add to Ro's food? It sounds like a freshly squeezed garlic clove would be your best bet. Garlic also has mild anti-parasitic properties.


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## Wolfie305

Yes! My boyfriend's mom and grandmother cook with fresh garlic all the time (Italian lol) and I asked if I could have one. Just gotta get over there. 

I tried giving her the regular food today too just to see and she didn't seem interested


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## thekoimaiden

Garlic and wine! The best ingredients!! Have you been able to get any garlic? Has she eaten anything today?


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## djembekah

now i want garlic and wine!


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## Wolfie305

Still no garlic, but she ate today YAY!! I tried the medicated food again and she did pick at it. I'm spending the night at Nick's tonight so I'll raid his fridge for some garlic XD

She's such a little fighter that one. All her friends have fallen to that illness, but she's still going. Her fins looked a lot better now too (her dorsal and other fins) - they aren't frayed anymore. Haven't got a good enough look at her tail, but its no worse.


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## thekoimaiden

:greenyay: Yipee!!! It's great news that she is eating and her fins look better! I was getting worried about her for a bit there. She's a tough little cookie!


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## djembekah

i'm totally rooting for sweet little Ro!


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