# Corydoras habrosus or Corydoras hastatus? (or possibly C. pygmaeus)



## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

So my LFS can order C. habrosus, C. hastatus or C. pygmaeus, and I'm fairly sure I've narrowed it down to habrosus or hastatus for which one I'm going to be ordering, but am having difficulty making a good decision. Simple aesthetics aside, is there a good reason to go with one or the other? Are there major behavior differences or compatibility differences? Is one hardier than the others (I know they are all delicate little snowflakes). 

Oh, and if someone wants to talk me into the pygmaeus I'll listen. 

Just in case it makes a difference, I'm going to give as much detail as I can about my proposed setup. 

My total stocking plan for a 10 gallon tank is (in order of acquisition):

5-6 Corydoras sp?
1 Nerite Snail
10 Ghost Shrimp
1 Female Betta

I'm currently doing a pure ammonia fishless cycle using 4ppm. I'm going to add plants before stocking, and will be giving the plants a few weeks alone in the tank to get stable (while dosing ammonia to 2ppm daily to continue feeding my bacteria). Immediately before buying the fish I'm going to dose once more to 4ppm, make sure it is converted in 24 hours, do a near 100% water change then add the corys the next day. 

I'm running an Ista 10g bio-sponge filter, and have a lee's economy corner filter available as backup, QT or carbon filter. I'm going to be moderately planted. Black Diamond blasting sand substrate CF lighting. I will be making several caves from solo cups, and may make some form of betta hammock as well. Only other tank decorations currently planned is one rock purchased from my LFS that is about the size of a biscuit (American).

Editing to add: tap water is hard and alkaline


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

I like the habrosus the most. The pygmies swim around a lot more, and dont act like a cory IMO. The hastatus,i have never seen before so i dont know about them. 
I have a school of six habrosus corys in my 5 gallon and they are awesome. 
They do like soft water the most, so you could get so Sera peat moss if you would like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hastatus is the most popular species for aquarists, they are middle swimmers as well once they get comfortable. ^-^


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

tankman12 said:


> I like the habrosus the most. The pygmies swim around a lot more, and dont act like a cory IMO. The hastatus,i have never seen before so i dont know about them.
> I have a school of six habrosus corys in my 5 gallon and they are awesome.
> They do like soft water the most, so you could get so Sera peat moss if you would like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have hard water, so that might be a problem, would the peat work just fine in a box filter? And what is the advantage of the Sera over just getting plain old peat moss? 



Olympia said:


> Hastatus is the most popular species for aquarists, they are middle swimmers as well once they get comfortable. ^-^


I was under the impression that Habrosus was also a middle swimmer to an extent, is this not the case? This was the big reason I was down to two, since pygmaeus was the shyest and most bottom-only?


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Peat is not recommended for beginners, if you're worried about it, maybe look into re-minerallized RO/DI water from your LFS but it shouldn't be needed. What are your pH, GH and KH?


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

With the peat, all you do is put a little in an empty carbon bag and throw it in your filter. The reason i said sera is cuz it is the brand i have and it lasts forever. Its texture and look is just like fluval stratum. So i wont make a mess. 

No you dont need it but your fish will enjoy it. Also it is fine for beginners, not very hard to deal with. You definitely dont need ro water. That is mainly for reefs and shrimp. Peat would be perfect, but as i said not really needed.

Habrosus never really swim in the middle, they are always on the bottom. The pygmies are always swimming in the middle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

RO is used in freshwater quite often (mainly for extremely sensitive wild-caught or advanced species) but it is good for safely adjusting the water chemistry should there be a need.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

You dont need to lower the ph. But why not make your fish more at home? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

My Hasbrosus are all over the tank: Middle and bottom. Might be because they have a larger, 20 long, though. They especially like reclining on the leaves of my larger Anubias which reach almost to the waterline. They are also somewhat larger than Pygmies but less sensitive to parameter changes.

Shrimp and the smaller cories need a mature tank; not a freshly-cycled one as parameters aren't yet stable. Shrimp, especially, have more of a chance of thriving a tank at least three months cycled and heavily planted. Not saying they *won't* survive in less; just that they have a better chance. Same with the smaller cories.

I also agree with Flint: Don't mess with your parameters. I have a thriving community of "soft water" fish in 8.0 pH and very hard water.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

UGH!

I'm getting contradictory instructions on different threads (and different forums sometimes). I was recently advised that with my eventual stocking plan I should do a very through fishless cycle, then add the corys right after the cycle. The corys as a schooling fish have to be added all at once, and since they are a majority of my bioload, I have to add them when I have the maximum amount of bacteria in my filters. I can't add my betta first, or it will increase the odds of it being territorial, and the shrimp and snail don't produce enough bioload to keep up enough bacteria on the filters that they will be able to handle sudden introduction of 6 corys. 

It seems every option is bad:



Stock the Betta first -- No! you have to add him (or her) last so that everything else is just part of his (or her) territory.
Stock the shrimp and/or snail first -- No! 10 shrimp and a snail don't produce enough bioload, if all you have are shrimp and a snail, when you add the corys there will be a mini cycle
Stock the corys first -- No! you can only add corys to a well established tank.
What is the best way of getting all of these fish into my tank? 



One option that someone suggested, but that I'm NOT willing to do due to its cruelty is to get feeder guppies, and have them alone in the tank for a few months until it matures, then discard them when I put in the corys. I am not discarding fish. I'm okay with risking a couple of shrimp with a less than ideal tank. But I'm not getting any living thing with the plan on killing it once it has served its usefulness.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Was the information you received specific to small cories? They are a different story than their larger cousins.

If you are going to have territorial issues you will have them no matter when you add a Betta as they are territorial by nature. If you have a heavily/densely planted tank that disrupts a Betta's line of sight you shouldn't have a problem introducing it first. Bettas are always the first residents of my tanks.

It's unfortunate, but you will always get contradictory information on aquarium keeping. Equally, unfortunately, some people simply regurgitate what they've read and don't have enough experience to realize what they're repeating is incorrect or a myth. :-(

FWIW, I've been keeping fish for 50 years. Ugh! :roll:


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Yes, the information was for small corys, it was because the risk of the mini cycle was greater than the risk of a freshly cycled tank for such a delicate species. 

Oh, and I totally don't mean to cast dispersion on your experience, but when trying to make a decision based on advice, I really can't even go with experience over reading, because if one method works 95 percent of the time, and another works 99 percent of the time, very few even very experienced keepers will keep close enough records to tell the difference, so the people who have read they study might be wrong against the guy who has been doing the 95 percent success method for over 30 years!

I think I'm just going to put the fish into a shot glass. At least then there is no question that I'm doing it wrong! 

Oh, and may I ask what part of Tennessee you are in?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Well, too late to make the correction, I realize how egotistical my FWIW sounded. I will say I only contribute if I've had actual experience and in a perfect world others will do the same ... but we know about perfect worlds. ;-)

Fresh cycles are always iffy and subject to mini-cycles no matter what you do which is why I suggest adding just a few fish at a time until the cycle is stable. That can take a month or two. I've learned to run two filters in a tank so I never have to start over if one conks out. Came in very handy when I got my second tank and could use the extra filter from the 20 until the filters I intended to use were cycled.

If it were my tank, I'd run it with the Betta and a snail. After it had been established for a month and parameters remained steady I'd add the Habrosus since they are less senstive than Pygmies.

Even though I don't advocate dwarf shrimp in with Bettas, I'd add them last after I determined my Betta's acceptance of tank mates as they'd be the most vulnerable to attack ... especially with a more agile female Betta.

BTW, I use Seachem Stability which allows one to add more fish while cycling (I do fish-in cycles). Seachem recommends adding a dose of Stability any time new fish are introduced to prevent a mini-cycle. I have found that works.

We're between Nashville and Murfreesboro in La Vergne.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

I just want to note that Seachem Stability does not contain live nitrifying bacteria, only the "food" for them to grow and flourish. Tetra SafeStart is a much better additive if you want to aid your cycle when adding new fish (or just cycling in general) as it *does* contain those live bacteria.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

Stability actually does contain live bacteria.

I just got a shoal of pygmy cories, and they are insanely cute and active. I did add them to a newly established (cycled) tank, but I also used sand from a long-established tank.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Well, too late to make the correction, I realize how egotistical my FWIW sounded. I will say I only contribute if I've had actual experience and in a perfect world others will do the same ... but we know about perfect worlds. ;-)
> 
> Fresh cycles are always iffy and subject to mini-cycles no matter what you do which is why I suggest adding just a few fish at a time until the cycle is stable. That can take a month or two. I've learned to run two filters in a tank so I never have to start over if one conks out. Came in very handy when I got my second tank and could use the extra filter from the 20 until the filters I intended to use were cycled.


With most fish this would be my method, add a fish, wait, add a fish, wait. But I've been advised I should add all my corys at once, since they do poorly in small numbers. I AM considering trying them three at a time though, which is about as small a number as I've ever heard anyone say was okay. 



> If it were my tank, I'd run it with the Betta and a snail. After it had been established for a month and parameters remained steady I'd add the Habrosus since they are less senstive than Pygmies.
> 
> Even though I don't advocate dwarf shrimp in with Bettas, I'd add them last after I determined my Betta's acceptance of tank mates as they'd be the most vulnerable to attack ... especially with a more agile female Betta.


If I wasn't doing live plants, I would start with betta and snail, then add shrimp. If the shrimp weren't even attacked I'd then remove the betta to a QT, re-arrange the tank significantly so it was a different territory, introduce the corys, replace the betta. But rearranging live plants can mess with the plants, and if a decent number of my plants die, then I've just messed with my tank enough that I really don't think I'll still have the benefits of a matured tank. 

If I understand correctly, a male betta is more likely to attack the corys over territory, a female is more likely to attack the shrimp over food. If I have to I can easily find another home for the shrimp, I've got a gallon jar lying around that will probably eventually be shrimped anyway. Also, while I will not sacrifice a free fish, if I'm going to risk one fish or another, I'd rather risk the $0.39 each shrimp over the $4.99 each corys. The shrimp will help me determine the Betta's temperament. 



> BTW, I use Seachem Stability which allows one to add more fish while cycling (I do fish-in cycles). Seachem recommends adding a dose of Stability any time new fish are introduced to prevent a mini-cycle. I have found that works.
> 
> We're between Nashville and Murfreesboro in La Vergne.


I grew up in Murfreesboro, and used to work at the Nissan in Smyrna! Sadly I'm no longer in that area much anymore, so can't take advantage of a local aquarists


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

> The shrimp will help me determine the Betta's temperament.


A betta can be invert-aggressive and not tankmate aggressive so this is a gamble either way.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Flint said:


> A betta can be invert-aggressive and not tankmate aggressive so this is a gamble either way.


As I understand it there are the following possibilities:



Betta will be aggressive to everything
Betta will be invert aggressive to shrimp, but not other fish
Betta will be aggressive to other fish, but not to shrimp
Betta will be friendly to all.
My understanding is that the least likely of these is number 3. As such if the betta is friendly to shrimp the odds are he will be friendly to the fish. If he eats the shrimp, well first of all I don't have to feed him that day, and secondly I'm not going to even try that particular betta with expensive (which for me is anything over $2) fish. (Oh and third if I want to I can start a shrimp breeding tank to supplement my betta's diet with shrimplets)


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Flint said:


> I just want to note that Seachem Stability does not contain live nitrifying bacteria, only the "food" for them to grow and flourish. Tetra SafeStart is a much better additive if you want to aid your cycle when adding new fish (or just cycling in general) as it *does* contain those live bacteria.


I've successfully cycled six tanks from 2.5 gallons to 20 gallons in 10 days or less using Stability. Haven't used the other so I don't feel qualified to comment on it.


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## Lettuce (Jul 12, 2014)

tankman12 said:


> I have a school of six habrosus corys in my 5 gallon and they are awesome.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have a betta in there too?


I'm curious about the possibilities for my 5 gallon.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Lettuce said:


> Do you have a betta in there too?
> 
> 
> I'm curious about the possibilities for my 5 gallon.


I want to say that keeping 6 corys in a 5 gallon is not recommended if you don't have some fairly extensive experience with dwarf corys, and aquariums in general. Full size corys have a reputation for being hardy, but the smaller versions have problems with inconsistent water quality. 

For a five gallon I would recommend a betta, some shrimp (ghost or cherry) and an african dwarf frog, two if you want to be brave.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

You shouldn't even put dwarf cories in a 5. 10 gallons is absolute minimum. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking small fish can be in small tanks but the activity level has to be considered as well. That's like saying you have a small dog so it can live in your room and use a puppy pad rather than let it in the whole house and run around in the yard.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Lettuce said:


> Do you have a betta in there too?
> 
> 
> I'm curious about the possibilities for my 5 gallon.


Ya i got a betta in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Flint said:


> You shouldn't even put dwarf cories in a 5. 10 gallons is absolute minimum. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking small fish can be in small tanks but the activity level has to be considered as well. That's like saying you have a small dog so it can live in your room and use a puppy pad rather than let it in the whole house and run around in the yard.


You can easily do dwarf cories in a 5 gallon planted(IME). They only get around an inch. They will swim up the plants and decor. Every fish is active, they arent much different than bettas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Cories are wayy more active than bettas, regardless of the species. Again 10 gallons is minimum for dwarf and panda cories, 20 gallons long for other species.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Flint, I wouldn't even put a panda into a 10, just a dwarf, pygmy or salt & pepper. I wish I felt okay with a panda, because they are hardier, but I just don't think my tank is big enough.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ya 10 is obviously better for the dwarfs. But if you only got a 5, it will do. 

I agree that pandas get to large for a 10 gallon. They stay smaller, but not that much. IME they get a little smaller than the size of julii cats.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Bluenail, they are the same size as peppered are.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Wouldn't do a Peppered Cory in a 10 either. Salt & Pepper Cory, Corydoras habrosus is not the same as a Pepper/Peppered Cory, Corydoras paleatus.


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## tankman12 (Nov 13, 2012)

Flint said:


> Bluenail, they are the same size as peppered are.


What are; pandas or habrosus? Cuz peppers are one of the largest corys, and neither get nearly as close in size.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

Flint said:


> A betta can be invert-aggressive and not tankmate aggressive so this is a gamble either way.


My one betta completely ignores my neons, rasboras, and corydoras, but HATES snails.. I don't know what it is about a moving "rock" that bugs him so much xD

I put pygmy corydoras in with my betta. I didn't change his territory or anything. He use to live with albino corydoras, which are bigger, and neon tetras, so he's pretty use to having fish in his tank. I just floated the bag, acclimated the pygmy cories to the tank water (the 10 gallon they went in is a mature tank), and scooped them out of the bag and placed them in the tank. I turned out the lights for this and left them off for the rest of the day.

The next day I saw the pygmy corys swimming as a school in the mid-range of the tank, my betta casually followed them, and then went off to do his own thing once they settled back to the sand. They clean up the sand really nicely, and are TINY 

I didn't have very good luck with the habrosus. :/

But yes, larger corydoras tend to be much hardier. Before I knew about proper fish keeping/cycling, I had used my betta and albino cories to cycle the tank lol They were troopers, and are healthy as a horse. Not saying you should use cories to cycle the tank, but I'm just proving a point :lol:

I dream of getting a giant tank and putting all kinds of schools of corydoras in it  but for now I just have 3 different kinds of cories (albinos + false juliis in my 30 gallon, and pygmy in my 10 gallon).


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## Sathori (Jul 7, 2013)

tankman12 said:


> Ya 10 is obviously better for the dwarfs. But if you only got a 5, it will do.
> 
> I agree that pandas get to large for a 10 gallon. They stay smaller, but not that much. IME they get a little smaller than the size of julii cats.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't mean to rock the boat here, but I'm just curious:

Isn't putting dwarfs in a 5 gallon pretty much the same as putting pandas in a 10? It will do, but a larger size tank is more ideal...?
Again, just curious.


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## BettaGirl612 (Aug 7, 2014)

I didn't even know there were different types! My pet store just said Cory cats are all the same no matter the coloration


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

BettaGirl612 said:


> I didn't even know there were different types! My pet store just said Cory cats are all the same no matter the coloration


Then this should blow your mind. Consider printing it for your pet store's education too.


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