# Dragon Scale Crown Tail



## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

So I posted a question in my spawn log but REALLY doubt many people will look in there and answer me, so I thought I would make a new thread all together. I hope this is ok and in the right section.. :$
Anyways.. i have had some help from GreenTea (Which I appreciate, Thank-You), but was just wanting a little more light to be shed.
What I am wanting to know is how to get Dragon Scale Crown Tail Bettas. I want to breed them not buy them. I have a female crown tail and a male crown tail but only have one dragon scale and he is a VT.
Is there anyway I can do this from scratch? i can imagine my dragon sclae male will be no help since he is a VT and im pretty sure it is said VT is a dominent gene.
Can someone help me please? How can I achieve this?


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

Gloria said:


> So I posted a question in my spawn log but REALLY doubt many people will look in there and answer me, so I thought I would make a new thread all together. I hope this is ok and in the right section.. :$
> Anyways.. i have had some help from GreenTea (Which I appreciate, Thank-You), but was just wanting a little more light to be shed.
> What I am wanting to know is how to get Dragon Scale Crown Tail Bettas. I want to breed them not buy them. I have a female crown tail and a male crown tail but only have one dragon scale and he is a VT.
> Is there anyway I can do this from scratch? i can imagine my dragon sclae male will be no help since he is a VT and im pretty sure it is said VT is a dominent gene.
> Can someone help me please? How can I achieve this?


I would just buy two dragon scale betta's. I saw a dragon scale crowntail at wal-mart so they are not uncommon or anything. If you try to do it from scratch you are gonna have to line breed and to be honest starting with a VT is going to make it even harder since VT is a dominant gene. You can work smarter or harder it's up to you


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree with BR, it will take many generations to get that perfect drg scale thus would be easier, not to mention cheaper, to buy a pair.... or at least one drg CT.

CTxVT = dominant VT. You will have uneven web reduction - not too impressive. Take CT fry with the best drg markings and inbreed them. Keep doing this until you get true drg CT.

Remember: You most likely have to re-introduce both CT and drg into the line..... so again IMO at least start with one drg CT. That way you don't have to worry about fin type and concentrate on color.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Bettas Rule said:


> I would just buy two dragon scale betta's. I saw a dragon scale crowntail at wal-mart so they are not uncommon or anything. If you try to do it from scratch you are gonna have to line breed and to be honest starting with a VT is going to make it even harder since VT is a dominant gene. You can work smarter or harder it's up to you


She's in Australia so it's not an option. You're welcome for the help btw =]


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## Bettas Rule (Aug 18, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> She's in Australia so it's not an option. You're welcome for the help btw =]


Can someone here buy one then and send it to her? It's certainly not worth the inbreeding and time that it would take to create it on her own. It would probably take over a year to get a dragon scale crowntail out of those genetics if not longer. :-(


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bettas Rule said:


> Can someone here buy one then and send it to her? It's certainly not worth the inbreeding and time that it would take to create it on her own. It would probably take over a year to get a dragon scale crowntail out of those genetics if not longer. :-(


I know how you feel. I often wish I could send everyone one or two. But the fact is, shipping isn't that easy and sometimes cost more than the bettas.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

VT + CT girl = combvails F1 Maybe a couple combtail deltas?

F1 female + ct male =some better combtails,more web reduction,looks more like ct F2a

F1 male + F1 female = more web reduction and dragon F2b

Take a fry F2a and F2b and breed them.

....it's really about breeding the fry that show the best of the qualities you want to each other. but with only those 3 it'll take you a while, and lots of inbreeding, to get anywhere. If you can find any other dragons that aren't VT's it'll help. Maybe find a breeder in your country and buy one from them?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

No one can ship out of their country unless they have an export license which is a minimum of hundreds of dollars.

Gloria - Look at fishchicks videos online, she imports and sells bettas in Australia! She might even breed, not sure.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Thank you everyone. I am not really able to find many Bettas as I don't live in a town close to very great pet shops but I will keep my eye out next time I go to Townsville as it has a few different pet shop. When I got my Dragon (Dragon Scale male) I only got him because he was the first Dragon scale I had ever seen. I VERY much doubt I would find a Dragon CT here ever, so i will try and look into a breeder here, thanx GreenTea, I will get intouch with fishchick.
.. So my current fry I have will be no good to keep to bred for the Dragon Scale Crown Tail?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

heres an example of her vids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqlj7rbfRw&feature=feedu


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

No, it's not that. every line starts some where. if you're willing to work with the line then the fry you have now can be used.

ETA: ooo, i was looking at that vid earlier xD nice fish.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I just found her on youtube.. Thanks GreenTea... So I need to see if she has any Dragon Scale Crown Tail Bettas?

@ Bambi - But it will just take a LONG LONG time?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah she often has dragon scales and imports every tail type I've ever seen, they might be a bit pricey but she will hold fish for you, just communicate and let her know whats up  Good luck. And no, you might be able to get some partial dragon scaled cts or something from this spawn and then just breed them back to dad. Do what I used to do and troll the fish stores frequently  Now I troll aquabid frequently...wallet is suffering. AB is another option, they will ship to Australia through fishchick, you have to notify her BEFORE bidding though or you cant get your fish. I'd ask her what her rates were and such.


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

well, take into account it take 4-6 months for a spawn to grow to breeding size.

And it'll take you 3+ generations to see something that resembles a dragon CT.
After they start to sort of look the way you like it's just about bettering the line, more web reduction and better dragon scaling theoretically.

So it'll take about a year to start it, and perfecting it? who knows. But i've never seen a dragonscale CT, so it would be worth it. ^^


ETA: I troll my petstores aswell. xD But we have 4-5 here in town so it's easier for me.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Ok well I might get into contact with her.
I dont want it to take FOREVER to get what i want. But dunno. Will contact her and see what she can do and let y'all know


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## floridiansx (Sep 23, 2011)

i would get a pair of halfmoon dragonscale since theres plenty of them, and a pair of crowntail. then breed halfmoon male to crowntail female, and the other two together. then pick the most dragonscale frys to breed back to the crowntail parents.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Would that work?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

I have been told my best bet is to look on Aquabid and see if there are any Dragon Scale CTs' on there. I don't really know how to use it?! Has anyone ever seen a Dragon Scale CT on there? Is there someone specific on there i can talk to that sometimes breeds them?


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Just go to the crown tail section and look through them, dragons will usually have dragon in their titles.

I don't see any dragon scale CT's for sale, but you can get dragon scale HM's and breed them to your CT's.
two breeders with a few to choose from are smilebetta:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1320943728

and
chulinda: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1321077217

They have an email for fish girl in the shipping info, you have to contact her before you order fish because she will be the one who get's your fish from the thailand shippers and send it to your house. ^^


If you wanna wait and keep looking, at the top of the page is a searching thing. in the scroll menu find crowntails, then type in dragon and search. ^^


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanx Bambi. I am not planning to bred again til early/ mid next year, just to get sorted on what I am doing.. My CT female isn't dragon scaled but...

Thank you again for the help, I will keep checking on AB and see how I go 
I am guessing it will cost a fortune to get one off AB?!


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

generally between $15 and $25 for the fish itself and then shipping cost. I don't know what the sipping is like over there, you can ask the transshipper though.

Alot of people buy more then one fish at a time so they can be shipped inthe same box and make the shipping worth it.

$30 express shipping seems like alot, but when you have 6 fish it's only $5 a fish and make it more worth while.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

So I have been thinking. If I buy a Dragon sclae HM Male, I can breed him to my CT female?! Would it be a good idea to get more than 1 male? also would it be a good idea to get another girl? If so, what sort?


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes a dragon HM male can breed to your CT female. You said you also own a CT male, yes? The getting a HM female to breed to him would be nice. Then you would have two unrelated partial dragon combtail lines you could breed together for the CT finnage without losing anything genetically that you want and avoiding inbreeding.
^^
For the female if you bought one i would get a HM or HMPK, either way you would get long fined fry and this lets you have more color options so you can find one that matches your boy or shows colors that you want.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

@Gloria: What is your main goal? Are you willing to house several fin types? Are you willing to house about 10 - 20 bettas (minimum)?

If the answer to questions 2 and 3 are no, then get yourself a drg CT. If you crossbreed HM to CT you will have to selectively inbreed and IMO you will need to try a few pairs..... which means more and more bettas. You will know the end results after 4 months (6 months you will know if you have an actual CT with equal web reduction)- meaning you have to keep all of the above that long.

Sorry to sound so negative but I don't want you to get over your head .... like me ... lol. It can be very time consuming and quite expensive if you don't culture your own food. So set a specific goal before you decide what to do/buy. Though shipping is expensive, yet if you're not ready for months and even years of breeding, shipping will seem very cheap. ..... think about it before you decide.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanx Bambi and Indjo..
My main goal is to get Dragon CT with good fins and good dragon scales... Im not sure on colour just yet, I think some mix would be nice.. The only way I can get a Dragon CT is to get one off AB and so I am checking it daily to see if they have any. I am wanting to do this next year but will be working part-time rather than casual. I can't really house 20+ Bettas as well as fry. I don't have enough rough (am sharing house with family members)...

So is my best bet to jsut keep looking for a Dragon CT?! sigh


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

So I have been thinkning about it alot lately and I need to decide what I am doing as I need to get organised and save $ etc etc..
Is the best option for me to find a Dragon CT as I am unable to hold a thousand Bettas in my place?
I was wondering if anyone on here happened to have a Dragon CT or had a picture of one at least that I could have a look at. I just want to see one first to make sure it is what I want to bred for.. I have recently fallen in love with Halfmoons, so I am not sure now if I wanna bred Dragon CTs or Dragon Halfmoons.. Which is more rare? Dragon CT? SIGH!! I need some advice.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO the dragon scale is getting more common - breeders are constantly cross breeding them and creating new dragons - whatever fin type. What dragon color do you prefer?

But IMO drgn CT is more rare than HM's because CT's are harder to maintain in general thus more people keep HM than CT...... incl. me.

Before you jump into a breeding project that may take several generations of breeding, try keeping the ones you have for the rest of this year and see if you can maintain their fins. 

TBH, I can never care for CT's properly and their fins would always get messy. HM's are easier to maintain than CT's. And PK's are even more easier...... your choice


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Yeah I LOVE the look of the Dragon scale.. Um Im not sure, i have only ever scene white and I saw a baby blue in pictures. What other coloured scales are there? How do you get different coloured scales?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

The dragon is supposed to have thick looking whitish/silver scales. The name is determined by the fin color. So red dragons are those that have white bodies and red fins...... and so on. There are all sorts of dragons - black, yellow, orange, and the non true dragons like blue and green.

The blue/green dragon you see are not true dragons. Because their bodies aren't white/silver. A true blue dragon is very rare.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

I am not too sure of what colour I would like.. But I have told I am only allowed to get 1 more Betta  So I have to be VERY careful when I choose.. hmm..

What does full mask mean?


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## Bambi (Sep 11, 2011)

Covers the whole head.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oh right.. That makes sense.. Thanks Bambi


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm confused. I know that the origional dragon had the white/silver body, and colored fins. I bought a blue female dragon at a betta show, and she was called a dragon. Maybe the definition has changed?


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettasct&1323256802

I think I want to get this little guy to breed... What do yous think?


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

What are you actually asking?

What you like or dislike is your personal preference (color). 
He is a great CT, balanced fins with a HM spread. His only flaw is the rays could be a bit firmer. But that's no big deal.

My question is; what do you plan to do with him? He is not dragon scaled so he doesn't fit your "dragon CT" plan. He looks like he's from a cambodian line.


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## rbrbetta (Nov 5, 2011)

this is the only true ct dragon that i have seen it was breed by a member on a different forum, the line was started originally with ctpk i believe. just wanted to share this amazing fish.


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## Ana6 (Nov 11, 2011)

Bambi said:


> VT + CT girl = combvails F1 Maybe a couple combtail deltas?
> 
> F1 female + ct male =some better combtails,more web reduction,looks more like ct F2a
> 
> ...


Full disclaimer: I am totally new to betta breeding. (I do know a little about genetics and plant breeding). I may get myself into trouble by offering this suggestion, but I am more than happy to be corrected by the more experienced people here. 

I also understand the feeling of figuring out a problem and solving it myself, maybe you are feeling that way too. 

Anyway. 

I don't know if dragon characteristics are dominant or recessive, but we do know that the veil tail trait is hard to get rid of. 

Also, some breeders have observed spawns can take on more characteristics from the female parent. 

With all that in mind, I would suggest:

Cross you crown tail femaile to the dragon male. 

Select a male from the spawn and cross it back to its mother. I know that sounds kind of gross, but we are not talking about humans here. You will be concentrating the genes that lead to the crown tail trait. With plants, this is done all the time.

From there, I would see what you have, and re-evaluate your strategy, concentrating on the two traits that you are selecting for.


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## Ana6 (Nov 11, 2011)

Lol, I am totally out-of-sinc, sorry.


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

I also really want a dragonscale crowntail. Luckily, I have a pretty crowntail female, but I don't know when I could attempt it with my male.


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