# Difference between Planted and Natural Planted?



## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

Hey!
I have been looking into doing a planted tank for a few months now, and I am wondering what the difference between natural planted and planted is :-?

Which is easier to do? I plan to use sand or soil (not sure which, give me your opinions!) as a substrate, get a few plants (Cambomba, Hornwort, Java Fern, Anubias, Süsswassertang) and let it cycle itself! :-D


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Natural planted is a soil based...if its your first time to grow plants...I would recommend that you do lots of research before you try NPT soil based....Lots of thing can go wrong and usually it is due to improper lights and not enough of the right species of plants to start off with-then you can have anaerobic issues and the tank can crash......


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Natural planted is a soil based...if its your first time to grow plants...I would recommend that you do lots of research before you try NPT soil based....Lots of thing can go wrong and usually it is due to improper lights and not enough of the right species of plants to start off with-then you can have anaerobic issues and the tank can crash......


Wow! Thanks :-D

Would sand work better then? This would be my first planted tank.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Sand works perfectly well, and from what I've seen ... there really isn't much (if any) difference. Depending on region, a lot of these plants grow in sand anyways naturally.

Here are some examples of my own tanks.

10 gallon Betta tank, sand:








20 gallon community, epoxy coated gravel:








125 gallon community, sand:


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

Wow! Those look amazing :shock:
Any tips? Did you cycle those tanks?


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

JBosley said:


> Wow! Those look amazing :shock:
> Any tips? Did you cycle those tanks?


Thanks!

All my tanks are cycled, I'd never do it otherwise. Technically speaking, if you have enough fast growing floating and stem plants you can get away without cycling because the plants use the ammonia before the bacteria can, but that's a more difficult balance to achieve on your first try with plants. I did this in the 125 gallon. EDIT: I wanted to clarify this by saying in the 125 gallon I added fish before it cycled, but it has long since then cycled. I added fish before hand because I had sufficient plants that the Ammonia/Nitrite never went beyond trace readings and I had an extreamly light bio-load during that period.

The real question you should have is not if you should go 'natural' or not, but if you should go high tech or low tech. High tech is where you inject CO2 into the water and use bright lighting to get much faster plant growth. Low tech is where you let nature produce your CO2 thorugh the fish breathing and the breakdown of wates in the substrate.

All my tanks are low tech, I don't want to bother with the expense of a high-tech setup and all of my fish prefer the dimmer lighting. For your first attempt at plants, I would recommend low tech.

For low tech, you want to stick with low light plants, and possibly some moderate light plants. I don't know what size tank you have so I can't offer specific recommendations. The usual suspects are Java Fern, Java Moss, and Anubias for low light plants. These all you can keep small enough for the kind of tanks most people put Bettas in.

You can try stem plants in smaller tanks, but stem plants all will grow tall and some grow outwards too (Wisteria is one like that). Most stem plants do best in at least moderate lighting.

In something with a little depth to it you can put in some Pygmy Chain Sword which is a really nice small sword plant that you can see in my 125 gallon all over the place. There are also some Crypts that stay on the smallish side. In my three tanks I have cryptocoryne wendtii, another option is cryptocoryne parva which is even smaller.

For a light you want a 'daylight' bulb which is usually around a color temperature of 6500K. Can't say what size without the tank size.

For fertalizer, use Florish Comprehensive once a week. One bottle will last you years on a small tank, and it's pretty cheap. It has every nutrient you need in the right proportions. If you get crypts, consider what are called 'root tabs' which are solid chunks of fertalizer you place under the substrate next to the plants and they last usually 2 months. These help heavy root feeders like large swords (don't get unless you have a tall tank) and crypts.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Since this will be your first planted tank...IMO using small diameter gravel or a plant specific gravel would be better.

Sand can sometimes have anaerobic issue especially if too deep (_over 2in_) with limited aeration. Trumpet snail can help by burrowing, fish that burrow or dig in the sand. Sometimes sand can compact around the roots/stem of the plants and this can cause issues with nutrients and suffocation that can kill the plant.

Proper lights are really important-most failures with some species of plants when not due to improper planting, use of non-aquatic plants, anaerobic issues..will be due to wrong color temp light, old light bulbs, wrong photoperiod...When photosynthesis is effected the plant can't grow and algae will take over. Without the correct color temp light the plants can't use the nutrients.

Lights don't have to break the bank either....I get/buy my bulbs in the lighting dept not the aquarium dept..."Daylight 6500k" florescent bulbs-watts vary based on length.....While the wpg rule is still used to a degree-the Kelvin is more important IMO/E.
Florescent bulbs need to be changed every 12 months since they will lose intensity over time-we can see the light but the plants can't to use for photosynthesis.
You also have light penetration that is important-when using a hood-either remove the partition between the light and water or make sure it is free of algae, debris, water deposits...etc....
Photoperiod-most plants are naturally on a 12h/day PP....10 hour of light with lower light an hour before and after as the sun rises and sets.
Too short can trick the plants into thinking its a season change and either go dormant, die or flower-Wrong color temp bulbs or old bulb can cause this too.

With plants its a balance......you have support active plant growth so it can out compete algae-but since this is a closed system some manual removal is still needed-but you should be able to keep problem algae controlled with balance that support active plant growth.

Cycling-with enough of the right species of plants that are actively growing-this will take care of ammonia produced by the livestock and other organics. Its a silent cycle of sorts......the plants will use the ammonia as food before conversion. Its not uncommon for thriving heavy planted tanks to never have nitrate reading-the sign we use that tells us cycling stages/completeness. Its still happening......the active plant growth functions as the bio-filter.

This is the 55ga soil based NPT








One of the 2gal








The 5gal








One of the 10gal-this one is the newest I just setup a few months ago









I have more pics in my album

I have found that the plants that work for my NPT's or low tech tanks with an average of 1-3wpg using daylight 6500k on 12h/d/PP-no injected CO2 or ferts added
Naja grass, rotala, wisteria, H. corymbosa, H. siamensis, cabomba for the stem plants. For the rosette plants-vals, sags, swords, crypts. Floaters I use-frogbit, duckweed and water lettuce. I also use java moss and java fern tied to driftwood and Nymphaea stellata bulb


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

:shock: I can't get over how helpful everyone is on here!!

:-D I am going to be attempting this in a standard 10gallon tank. If it work, I will be doing it in my 15 gallon, divided tank! 

So what substrate should I use? Could you link me to something so I can get a better idea? :-?
Would this work: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753225&lmdn=Type

It says it is for plants... if not I will just get small gravel!  As for lighting, the tank I am getting doesn't have a hood. But Big Al's Aquarium store, had TONS of lighting options that hook onto hoodless tanks and such. So I will be getting something like that! Which type of bulb would be best? I heard LED....


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

No, do not use crushed coral. That's a calcareous substrate that will raise your GH, KH, and pH of your water. It is meant for marine tanks and african lake cichlid tanks where you need hard, basic water.

If you want sand, Play Sand works great, this is the same sand you would put in a kids sand box. It's dirty and has to be cleaned very well, but it is fantastically cheap (less than $5 for a 50 lbs bag).

If you want gravel you have two options, the epoxy coated stuff which you can get in numerous colors (but black, natural, or dark brown is best for fish) or you can get what's called an enriched substrate which the most popular ones are Eco Complete and Flourite. 

I know a lot of people will point you towards the enriched ones... but I am no where near convinced they are worth the vastly higher price. They _do_ contain nutrients for plants, but that only gives great benefit to substrate rooted plants, which root tabs can give the same (and better) benefits. The nutrients also, obviously, don't last forever. A 10 gallon is small enough that it won't break the bank, but don't expect it to do miracles either.

For light, the standard hoods tend to have two screw in sockets. Buying 10W 'Daylight' CFLs from the hardware store will do you just fine and cost about $10 for a two pack. They are 6500K which is perfect. If your hood is a florescent tube, then again head to the hardware store and buy a 'daylight' one that will also be 6500K. I believe 10 gallon ones are 18".

The two 10W bulbs will be upper end of moderate light, so you may want to start with a 10 hour photo period and see how it goes. If you start to get algae growth cut it down. All tanks will have algae, so only cut it down if you start to get a lot. ('Brown algae' is actually diatoms, and almost all new tanks get this. It usually goes away on its own). Floating plants will work quite nice. Dwarf Water Lettuce is a good one. Some stem plants also work well floating, in my picture above I use Brazilian Pennywort.


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks! :-D I think I will just use the gravel, as I can find it easily and it isn't too pricey.

As for light, I might talk to the aquarium store. And see what their opinions are! Since I do NOT have a hood...


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

Before I discovered play sand, I used silica sand. It's not quite as fine, but it looks nice and doesn't alter the ph. In town we get it from a place that sells stones and crushed stones and gravel used in landscaping.


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## Geomancer (Aug 23, 2010)

Yes, landscaping supply stores are another option for finding different sized sands and gravel. Do not go larger than the stuff pet stores sell, something between that and sand would be perfect if you want to go that route.

The only thing you have to watch out for is if it will slowly dissolve in water, like the crushed coral will. I don't know what all rock does, I know for example that limestone does. A test is using an acid, like vinegar, to see if it fizzes. If it does, bad choice. It's not 100% but does give an idea.

Just keep in mind that if you go with the epoxy coated gravel, or play sand, there are zero nutrients in it so using Flourish Comprehensive is a must (I recommend it anyways).

EDIT: Flourish is pretty concentrated. For a 10 gallon the weekly dose is 0.8 mL I believe. So the smallest bottle, 250 mL, would last you 312 weeks which is six years. It never expires so no worries about that.


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

Right now I have a 15 gallon, cycled tank, that is divided in half for my 2 boys 

Would I be able to take this tank, add the proper substrate (without draining it) and add plants? Is this possible?

It would be a LOT easier than moving my boys into temporary tanks, and waiting for a planted one to cycle.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

With two betta I don't think you're adding a lot of bioload. That said plant well enough and just watch it, I think you'll be fine.
Do drain the tank to switch the substrate, it's also much easier to plant with only a couple inches of water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Since your going open top...get two light strips and if you get the 22/23inch size they will sit perfect on top of the tank with a slight hang-over..This is how I have my lights on my 10gal NPT....On the 20gal I have to use slats I cut from yard sticks to place on the lip for the light strips to sit on.

Change the bulbs to the Daylight 6500k 20w for 10gal and the 15 gal...

You can get some pea gravel at places like home depot, lowes for low cost...50lb bag cost about $4-5.00
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...53&langId=-1&keyword=pea+gravel&storeId=10051


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## JBosley (Jan 28, 2012)

:shock: You guys are amazing!!!
Thanks! I feel much more prepared now :-D


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Natural planted is a soil based...if its your first time to grow plants...I would recommend that you do lots of research before you try NPT soil based....Lots of thing can go wrong and usually it is due to improper lights and not enough of the right species of plants to start off with-then you can have anaerobic issues and the tank can crash......


I thought natural planted was just another name for low-tec planted approach (ie no high lighting, no injected CO2, no heavy ferts). And that the soil method was the Walstad Planted Tank. I've never had any interested in soil tanks, but I'm just trying to clean up some confusion on my end.


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## marktrc (Jun 6, 2012)

In Hawaii the choices for sand are limited. (Kind of ironic) I am able to get pool sand that is size 20. Is that a good size for plants? Approximately $27 50 lbs

Another choice I had was a place that specialized in sand. They actually had aquarium sand. (So they said) but only natural color. They had a few sizes from 30's to 8. 8 still being way smaller then pet store gravel? Would 8 be a better choice? Approx $25 50 lbs

Lastly I could shell out the big bucks for pet store sand. Which is nice cause I could get black. $50-60 for 50 lbs.

I have not found play sand or 3m colorquartz (discountinued in black at the one place that used to carry it) and yes Hawaii things are expensive.

So of my choices... what would be best?

Sorry for jumping on someone else's thread but I thought they might like the info too.


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