# iredescence in red Bettas



## GhostFeather

I have 3 really nice red HM females and Males from my last spawn that will be ready for the Spring shows.
They are bright red,I have heard that the judges check for iredescence in them,what are they looking for when they usr thier flashlight,what should I be looking for?
Thanks
Bill


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## Hallyx

I'm interested in knowing about that, too, so I'm signing on to this thread.


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## Mo

Ill show you guys in a second. Im going to eat breakfast


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## Mo




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## vilmarisv

They are looking for "shiny" spots that will reflect light back. Good red coloring sould be matte so when they shine the light only red can be seen.


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## Basement Bettas

vilmarisv said:


> they are looking for "shiny" spots that will reflect light back. Good red coloring sould be matte so when they shine the light only red can be seen.


ditto


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## DiiQue

Forgive me for my ignorance but I have some questions:

1. Why is iredescence considered a flaw?
2. How would one go about removing it from the fish through breeding? How many generations would it take, for example in Mo's pics, to remove them completely?

I normally would search the interweb and the ibc handbook but my 4yr old and 7month old keep me busy.


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## Basement Bettas

DiiQue said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance but I have some questions:
> 
> 1. Why is iredescence considered a flaw?
> 2. How would one go about removing it from the fish through breeding? How many generations would it take, for example in Mo's pics, to remove them completely?
> 
> I normally would search the interweb and the ibc handbook but my 4yr old and 7month old keep me busy.


Any other color present on a solid fish is a flaw. So on a red fish having blue, white, black or cellophane is a major flaw. So a red fish should only show red. Iridescence is blue/steel/green. Those colors are a fault on a red.. or black for that matter.

How to remove? That is an age old question. Some breeders introduced Cambodians into red to remove the irid as well as the black scale edges red fish have. With that cross you have the paler more cherry reds. But they often have blond heads so are still faulted. A true old red has a black layer under it. So these old reds has black edges to the scales as well as the bits of blue irid on the top layer. You just have to keep crossing the best colored reds to other best colored reds to reduce the blue. An all red betta is the result of many years of dedicated breeding. Fish were never colored like that in the wild. That is where the term extended red comes from. The fish has been bred to have the red extend to cover the entire fish. Introducing the Cambodian into the mix removed the black pigment base but also removed the color from the body. That is what cambodian is.. a flesh colored body with colored fins. So the cambodian messes with the extended red to various extents.. and you end up with patches of light red coloring all the way up to a decent cherry red.

I don't think a perfect red has been produced.. some have come close and I had reds with very little irid. If you start off with excellent stock you can get close in a few generations.. but I don't think it is ever 100% gone. And you have to worry about fins fading to cellophane or black [faults] and pecs not being colored [also faults].


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## LittleBlueFishlets

Basement Bettas said:


> Any other color present on a solid fish is a flaw. So on a red fish having blue, white, black or cellophane is a major flaw. So a red fish should only show red. Iridescence is blue/steel/green. Those colors are a fault on a red.. or black for that matter.
> 
> How to remove? That is an age old question. Some breeders introduced Cambodians into red to remove the irid as well as the black scale edges red fish have. With that cross you have the paler more cherry reds. But they often have blond heads so are still faulted. A true old red has a black layer under it. So these old reds has black edges to the scales as well as the bits of blue irid on the top layer. You just have to keep crossing the best colored reds to other best colored reds to reduce the blue. An all red betta is the result of many years of dedicated breeding. Fish were never colored like that in the wild. That is where the term extended red comes from. The fish has been bred to have the red extend to cover the entire fish. Introducing the Cambodian into the mix removed the black pigment base but also removed the color from the body. That is what cambodian is.. a flesh colored body with colored fins. So the cambodian messes with the extended red to various extents.. and you end up with patches of light red coloring all the way up to a decent cherry red.
> 
> I don't think a perfect red has been produced.. some have come close and I had reds with very little irid. If you start off with excellent stock you can get close in a few generations.. but I don't think it is ever 100% gone. And you have to worry about fins fading to cellophane or black [faults] and pecs not being colored [also faults].


Do you know of any good resources, especially online info, for betta genetics?

I've seen some basic writeups, such as royal blue (Bb) x royal blue (Bb) producing 25% steel blue (BB), 50% royal (Bb) and 25% turquoise (bb)... But I haven't come across a lot that's much more in depth than this.

And not just color genetics. What about fin types? 

(This stuff might be available for IBC members, but I'm not a breeder so I'm not a member. I'm just someone who finds genetics really interesting.  )


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## Basement Bettas

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Do you know of any good resources, especially online info, for betta genetics?
> 
> I've seen some basic writeups, such as royal blue (Bb) x royal blue (Bb) producing 25% steel blue (BB), 50% royal (Bb) and 25% turquoise (bb)... But I haven't come across a lot that's much more in depth than this.
> 
> And not just color genetics. What about fin types?
> 
> (This stuff might be available for IBC members, but I'm not a breeder so I'm not a member. I'm just someone who finds genetics really interesting.  )


Unfortunately bettas do not play by the rules and most have genetic messes up the pike. Blue x Blue and I got multi or pastels. Go figure. If you have a pure line you can expect some things. The rest are best guesses that come with experience.. and they still surprise you.


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## Basement Bettas

Joeps forum bettas4all I think has some good genetic info. He has been gracious to allow us to reprint what he has on our new site in exchange for some of the info we have. Between is we should be able to cover the US and European countries with good solid info.


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## LittleBlueFishlets

Basement Bettas said:


> Unfortunately bettas do not play by the rules and most have genetic messes up the pike. Blue x Blue and I got multi or pastels. Go figure. If you have a pure line you can expect some things. The rest are best guesses that come with experience.. and they still surprise you.


Ha! Fascinating - for me, at least, as I'm not a breeder. Frustrating for a breeder though! 



> Joeps forum bettas4all I think has some good genetic info. He has been gracious to allow us to reprint what he has on our new site in exchange for some of the info we have. Between is we should be able to cover the US and European countries with good solid info.


Thanks! I'll check it out.


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