# Leaving male in tank with fry



## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

Is it safe? I read mixed reviews on it.


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## Vizja13 (Jul 18, 2011)

A lot depends on your male. If you have a "good" father, he will cull a lot of the sick and deformed babies before you could ever tell what to cull, leaving a probably smaller but healthier spawn. A "bad" father, though, will just eat all the babies. There's a really good set of articles on it on bettysplendens.com


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

It depends-how important is the spawn.....Leaving the male long term is possible and its also risky. Some male are fine-while others are not.

Having a heavy planted tank-full to the top with water can sometimes increase chances of success-provided that the male is a good father to start with. Some males, it doesn't matter one way or the other...

I have males I keep with their spawn long term without any issue and the only problem I have is the bigger fry eating the smaller fry.

When dealing with live creatures-its hard to say anything is a sure thing or safe-except to say they can be unpredictable-anything can happen for many different reasons and from no reason at all....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Most important to consider, as OFL stated, is the importance of the fry to you. If you don't want to risk losing them, it's best to take male out as soon as fry are free swimming. Otherwise you can leave a known good father with fry until fry become adults. 

IME there are good fathers - they not only care for eggs, but will also feed fry.
Then there are so so fathers that only care for them until they become free swimming.
And there's the bad fathers that will eat eggs and or fry.

You need to know your male. . . . even knowing previous behaviors may sometimes change during the next breeding. Again, as OFL said, it's sometimes hard to give definite answers when dealing with this species - anything can change their behavior.


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

indjo said:


> IME there are good fathers - they not only care for eggs, but will also feed fry.


I've been tempted to leave the father in on a spawn as well. But how does the father feed the fry?


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## xShainax (Feb 11, 2012)

I am breeding for the first time in a few months. I won't risk leaving him in with the fry for the first time.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

For first timers, it would be best to take male out once fry are free swimming, reducing the chances of losing fry. 

They feed fry by vibrating their pectoorals. Fry will approach and he will either release food debris or even mouth some fry. I have known for a long time that newly hatched fry gather if you vibrate your finger or small stick on the water surface but I realized why only a couple years ago.


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

indjo said:


> For first timers, it would be best to take male out once fry are free swimming, reducing the chances of losing fry.
> 
> They feed fry by vibrating their pectoorals. Fry will approach and he will either release food debris or even mouth some fry. I have known for a long time that newly hatched fry gather if you vibrate your finger or small stick on the water surface but I realized why only a couple years ago.


I think this is true, cos I tried once..accidentally..I thought the eggs failed to hatch so I kinda let the the male in there and never really bother to check him ( just feed him tubifex worms and mosquito larvae twice a day as usual ) waiting for him to "refresh" and get ready for another spawn. and I didn't see any fries before (I used IAL and lots of plants ), after 2 weeks or so, when I was going to remove him back to his regular tank, I found around 30 fries or so, not much but their size were even bigger than my 3 weeks old fries ( I got another spawn a week earlier ). And I didn't put any special food for the fries, so I think basically they grew from infusoria ( lots of plants in there ) and probably whatever their daddy left for them.


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

In my past breeds, I've never fed the males (granted I usually take them out soon after the fry begin their swim)...but why is there such a big taboo about feeding the males while they are in the spawn tank? Does this trigger an appetite and then they begin eating the spawn?


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

Option said:


> In my past breeds, I've never fed the males (granted I usually take them out soon after the fry begin their swim)...but why is there such a big taboo about feeding the males while they are in the spawn tank? Does this trigger an appetite and then they begin eating the spawn?


yeah there are basically 2 different opinions in this case..to feed or not to feed..he he, I go with feed, and never had any real problems with it, and actually I have 1 spawn going now..fries are swimming freely and I feed the daddy tubifex worms twice a day..I'm gonna leave him there for another 2 days or so until I have to go on 2 days trip outta town..and don't worry about the fries, I got the tank heavily planted and gonna add more liquifry ( not an ad, not related, it's just what I use to feed my newly hatch ), 2 years ago, I left my fries for about 5 days trip and they were doing just fine.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes some believe t.hat males fed during egg/fry rearing will induce egg/fry eating. Regardless what we believe, most males wont eat during the whole process: courtship - spawning - egg rearing. Though they would eat during fry rearing, they won't eat much. Then there are those that don't feed to avoid ammonia build up; whether from digested food or from leftovers.

You have to choose what works best for you - what you are most comfortable with.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Mine wouldn't accept food.. wouldn't accept it for a few days after being pulled either.


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

indjo said:


> Yes some believe t.hat males fed during egg/fry rearing will induce egg/fry eating.


I have never fed my males during this phase, but I've always thought it was a curious topic -- since one would think that if you starved them like this then the first thing they would turn to eat is THEIR FRY. So I never understood that logic.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

This is why conditioning - fattening up thee male is very important. Some may fast more than 7 days. Some males, not conditioned properly may even die due to stress, fatigue and malnutrition.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

I leave my male in until fry free-swim but I recently watched footage of a breeder who takes the male out 30 minutes after the female no matter what. He said his findings were that the survival rate for fry is 85-90% which is much higher than leaving the father in. He also says that if an egg falls out of the nest that if it does not hatch it was not fertilized and wouldn't have hatched anyway.


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## Option (Oct 20, 2012)

Jayloo said:


> He also says that if an egg falls out of the nest that if it does not hatch it was not fertilized and wouldn't have hatched anyway.


Is he implying that a fertile egg after falling out of the next can still hatch laying at the bottom of the tank? (assuming no infection/fungus gets it)


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

I would assume the same. He is the guy on YouTube claiming to be the best betta breeder in the world. He has all kinds of different new methods but I'm very weary of a lot of them...


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

Jayloo said:


> I would assume the same. He is the guy on YouTube claiming to be the best betta breeder in the world. He has all kinds of different new methods but I'm very weary of a lot of them...


oh that guy LOL, well I don't say what he's doing is wrong..but certainly will not be the only right way of doing it


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

It's his own opinion he is the best.. his attitude makes him unlikable. He makes a lot of claims that makes you go "huh?" lol.. unsure how good he is, don't see a lot of actual spawns from him.. see him "breeding" them (in an un-Thai way), but unsure where he actually sells the fish. 

Thought this was funny.. if he knew so much about bettas, why does he sell these?

He just talks too full of himself is all


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

so I manage to take a pic of my "current" spawn..pardon me if it's not so clear, as I'm "afraid" to get "too close" to them during this stage ( daddy even started to "observe" me when I was trying to take their picture LOL ). The tiny red dots ( I used photoshop to add them ) are some of the fries that I could "identified" in the pic, and yes they're free swimming now, and daddy is still with them


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## caissacrowntails (Mar 10, 2013)

Myates said:


> It's his own opinion he is the best.. his attitude makes him unlikable. He makes a lot of claims that makes you go "huh?" lol.. unsure how good he is, don't see a lot of actual spawns from him.. see him "breeding" them (in an un-Thai way), but unsure where he actually sells the fish.
> 
> Thought this was funny.. if he knew so much about bettas, why does he sell these?
> 
> He just talks too full of himself is all


LOL I haven't saw that one before until u posted the link, and yeah that look soooo "un-thai" , he's probably just trying to get "popular", good or bad, as long as people are talking about him...that's "buzz marketing" LOL


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

Yeah that guy is a legend in his own mind.lol I leave my males with the young until they have had enough. They will stop patrolling the tank and usually leave the fry to their own defenses. usually staying in just one part of the tank. Then I pull the dad. I have noticed for the most part, the Dads won't even think about food until the fry are free swimming, and then they start telling the fry when its eating time and or feeding them themselves. Some will still refuse food until they give up the nest. The newest Dad I have was still refusing food days after he had given up the nest, and I got worried about him so ended up pulling him way before I wanted to. He is TOO GOOD a dad. Next time I'm gonna try to leave him a little longer and possibly figure out what his favorite food is and offer that. I think his fry would really benefit from such a great dad. But you can only let them go so long without eating. Dads come in a long range of differences. I guess from so many years of domestication.


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## Jayloo (Mar 13, 2013)

I feel like he had good and bad ideas. I liked the idea of breeding in plastic and a lot of what he says makes sense but I do leave my males in until free swimming begins.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Jayloo said:


> I leave my male in until fry free-swim but I recently watched footage of a breeder who takes the male out 30 minutes after the female no matter what. He said his findings were that the survival rate for fry is 85-90% which is much higher than leaving the father in. He also says that if an egg falls out of the nest that if it does not hatch it was not fertilized and wouldn't have hatched anyway.


I don't mean to sound like a "know it all". But please be very careful if you decide to ask his advise. . . 85-90% hatch rate? If he produces 700 fry per spawn, then his claim would be true. I know for a fact (I used to count them) that 4 month old females (smaller females) lay about 700 - 800 eggs while fully grown can lay over 1300 eggs. 

For his method to work, you need to use a very clean tank and water. Otherwise mold will kill some if not most of the eggs. His method can be used for known egg/fry eaters. . . artificial hatching. But why risk it if you have a known good father.

Fertilized Eggs on the floor may hatch IF mold doesn't destroy it. When artificially hatching eggs in a bowl, some eggs will fall on the floor.

Again, I'm not saying he is wrong. I'm just saying he is NOT THE BEST and his methods are definitely not for new breeders.


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## louisvillelady (Jan 12, 2013)

If I'm not mistaken, his belief is that only unfertilized eggs fall out of the nest which is totally illogical. Besides, we know its wrong because like you said, if mold doesn't get it, they hatch on the floor. So it had to be a fertile egg that fell.


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