# Swim Bladder Disorder/Constipation or Dropsy? :[



## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi everyone,

So my female betta hasn't been doing very well the past couple of days. She looks a little bloated but not too much (not pineconing but her scales are not completely smooth on her body), her anus appears a bit swollen, she has a hard time swimming, and usually swims/floats vertically near the top of her bowl. I have a feeling she may have been over fed during the week. I had a friend feed her while I was out of town but I showed them how much to feed her. I've been keeping her water clean and have fasted her for almost a day now but there have been no signs of improvement. I'm thinking of waiting another day and then trying the cooked pea trick.If anyone has any idea of what could be going on or anything I can do to help her please let me know!​


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

please fill thids out so we can help further...are you able to take a few pictues as well?

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

*Housing *
What size is your tank? *1 Gallon*

What temperature is your tank? *74 F*

Does your tank have a filter? *No*
*
*Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? *No*

Is your tank heated? *No*

What tank mates does your betta fish live with? *None*

*Food*
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? *FD Bloodworms*

How often do you feed your betta fish? *Twice a day*

*Maintenance 
*How often do you perform a water change? *Twice a week*

What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? *100%*

What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? *Water conditioner*

*Water Parameters:*
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? *No*

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

*Symptoms and Treatment*
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *Bloated and slightly rough scales, not quite pineconed, and anus is a little swollen*

How has your betta fish's behavior changed? *Stays near surface using plants as support, has a hard time swimming horizontally*

When did you start noticing the symptoms? *A few days ago*

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? *She's been fasted for a day now*

Does your fish have any history of being ill? *No*

How old is your fish (approximately)?* 1 1/2 years old*


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

for a 1 gallon i would change the water a little more frequently.for a 1 gallon i would do 50% ever other day and 100% weekly.i currently have a male in my 1 gallon and thats how often i clean it.or ill do 100% every other day.

do u have any pictures?

with the anus a little swollen this might be something OFL(OldFishLady) might have to comment about..

try adding about 1/4 teaspoon of aquarium salt in her tank and putting her in a more darker place of not using the light.she could have internal parasites.do you have any other medication other than bettafix?

bettafix is good for like fin damage but not internal parasites.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

and her water temp might be a little too low.78 degrees is ideal.there are small heaters that go under small betta bowls and tanks.also try a different diet.try feeding her once a day.their stomachs are the size of their eyes.so they dont eat much.i too feed mine twice a day but i dont put a lot.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Thank you for the tips! I'll get on this right away. I'll try uploading a picture soon.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> bettafix is good for like fin damage but not internal parasites.


I do not reccomend betta fix or any medication ending in -fix, it contains a tree oil that is known the damage their labyrinth organ. Some people use it and have no side affects while others lose their fish. Personally not something i'd risk or reccomend, but to each their own.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh and the only medication I have right now is Pimafix.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

stoof said:


> Oh and the only medication I have right now is Pimafix.


dont use it... -fix medications are a no no.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

teeneythebetta said:


> I do not reccomend betta fix or any medication ending in -fix, it contains a tree oil that is known the damage their labyrinth organ. Some people use it and have no side affects while others lose their fish. Personally not something i'd risk or reccomend, but to each their own.


Yikes. I'll stop the Pimafix then. Thanks.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no problem  

if used properly it will be fine.for a few days is ok.but using it constantly or more than 10 days can cause some damage..but i always say to use AQ salt for now.

how many days have u used the pimafix?

and really the best thing for them is clean water.its y i suggested a little more frequent water changes.unless its a filtered tank.in this case its not.i just got done changing my bettas water.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm definitely going to change her water more often. I've been using the Pimafix for two days now. I'm going to change her water later today after I pick up the aquarium salt. It'll be Pima free!


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i learned the hard way about the water changes,,,luckily we can come here for help.over the past few months i have learned a lot and help out as much as i can.though there are many on here that know a lot more.

ive always been told about aquarium salt.u can also use epsom salt which is actually better.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Aquarium salt is for external problems.
Epsom salt is for internal problems.

So you would want to use 1-2 teaspoons of Epsom salt per gallon of water and do 100% water change every day while treating.
Be sure to make the Epsom salt dissolve completely before putting your fish in the water.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Cool :] Thanks for the help! Hopefully my little betta gets better.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

stoof said:


> Cool :] Thanks for the help! Hopefully my little betta gets better.


No problem, I hope he gets better soon!  
Keep us updated and feel free to ask any more questions you may have.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Yes, any medicine with -fix is very bad and contains tea tree oil. Bad for their labyrinth organ! D: I recommend Epsom Salt 1-3 teaspoons per gallon. Dissolve first and then do daily 100% changes for 14 days or until she gets thinner. The pea trick is bad for them. They're insectivores, not vegans. But a small piece like this big is fine: o
Good luck with your fish, and if she's a little bloated time to time, don't worry. She's just eggy.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

I came home after going to the store for the salts and was able to snap a picture of her. Couldn't get a side shot since she's nestled in her plant. Her scales are protruding a lot more than they were before :[


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

oh my..that looks like the signs of dropsy to me..any1 can verify?


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

CRAP. D: That's Dropsy... There's not much you can do. Try to PM OFL or Sakura about this. I think it's time to get the clove oil... ;'(


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

go to the link i posted.scroll down a little until u find dropsy..read the info in it..they also have a picture.but the symptoms u named and looking at the picture.thats dropsy..but since u can see her better..check out the link and the info on it..

http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Poor fishy :'[


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

it doesnt look to severe..and i dont want to say it is 100% sure dropsy..i know little about it and the link i posted is the only way i know.ekkk hope im not the bad news bearer..


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

Wow thats defenitely dropsy 

*Dropsy
*•Symptoms: Your betta will have a bloated belly and raised scales. They will look like a pine cone. This is usually a fatal disease caused by an internal bacterial infection resulting in internal organ failure but many have had success bringing fish back when treated quickly.
Early Symptoms: Swollen eyes (important), Gray belly (important), Clamped fins, Lethargy. If your fish has swollen eyes and a gray belly, I suggest that you treat it for Dropsy.
•Treatment: If you spot the early signs of Dropsy then treat him/her with ES at 1-2tsp/gal and Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets while performing 100% daily water changes. It helps to increase the temperature to 84*F. If he/she has begun Pineconning then do the full course as described below:
Performing daily 100% water changes. Increase the temperature to 84*F. Add 1-2 tsp/gal Epsom Salt. Use API General Cure OR API Erythromycin OR Maracyn II and/or Maracyn for best results. Feed something containing Metronidazole, for example, Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets. If caught early, Dropsy is curable.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

im the bad news bearer....
thank you teeneythebetta for confirming it unfortunately 
id say its in the early stages and there is still hope...


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

*sigh*

Well I'm going to continue the 100% daily water changes and up the temperature. 

I've never fed her live food which generally seems to be the main root of dropsy.

She definitely isn't as big as the betta in the link prodrumernate posted but she does have the bloated belly and is pretty lethargic. 

No swollen eyes or grey patches though.

I'll keep researching other things I can do that might help. Seems a bit hopeless though :[


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

That's definitely Dropsy.  Being bloated and gray belly are the early signs. This is the later course of internal breakdown. (AKA Dropsy)


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> im the bad news bearer....
> thank you teeneythebetta for confirming it unfortunately
> id say its in the early stages and there is still hope...


Im not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but pertruding scales is the late signs of dropsy. Im so sorry to the OP. As LTB mentioned, you may want to consider euthanizing, but that is your decision.
If you would like to euthanize, let me know and i can tell you how to do it without causing her any pain; humanely.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm going to mull things over and decide what I want do. I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given me.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

teeneythebetta said:


> Im not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but pertruding scales is the late signs of dropsy. Im so sorry to the OP. As LTB mentioned, you may want to consider euthanizing, but that is your decision.
> If you would like to euthanize, let me know and i can tell you how to do it without causing her any pain; humanely.


i know and i hope i didnt sound rude or anything.i just meant u confirmed my suspicions because i wasnt 100% sure myself.but with a second opinion confirmed it even though its unfortunate but atleast now we know what it is. i feel bad i was the first to say it is dropsy.

u,LTB and i are saying it is.now its down to getting it taken care of.to me it seems to be the early stages which she has more of a chance to recover and thats what im hoping for.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

stoof said:


> I'm going to mull things over and decide what I want do. I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given me.


personally i wouldnt rush into a quick decision.i would want to do a little more research and see if anything can be done or if euthanization is the best.oh this is saddening


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

stoof said:


> I'm going to mull things over and decide what I want do. I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given me.


no problem. im so sorry this is happening.. I hate telling people the seriousness but I'd rather be straight forward.

I've dealt with dropsy before and dwelled on the euthanization idea. it is very tough to consider.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> i know and i hope i didnt sound rude or anything.i just meant u confirmed my suspicions because i wasnt 100% sure myself.but with a second opinion confirmed it even though its unfortunate but atleast now we know what it is. i feel bad i was the first to say it is dropsy.
> 
> u,LTB and i are saying it is.now its down to getting it taken care of.to me it seems to be the early stages which she has more of a chance to recover and thats what im hoping for.


No you didnt sound rude hun 
I was just saying that the signs showing are in later stages, im not guessing that, thats just how it is unfortunately.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> i know and i hope i didnt sound rude or anything.i just meant u confirmed my suspicions because i wasnt 100% sure myself.but with a second opinion confirmed it even though its unfortunate but atleast now we know what it is. i feel bad i was the first to say it is dropsy.
> 
> u,LTB and i are saying it is.now its down to getting it taken care of.to me it seems to be the early stages which she has more of a chance to recover and thats what im hoping for.


No it's fine.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

good,i thought i sounded rude.which i didnt intend too at all. 

other than fresh water changes is there anything else that could be done to help in the aid?or is this 1 of those unfortunate events where its best to euthanize ?

id hate to see her go.rather she go from old age.i went to check my bettas just to make sure they arent sick.though i check them 24/7


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Well, you should lower the water level so it's easier for her to get to the top. Add some IAL or washed dried Oak Leaves for an antibacterial effect. There has been a member here and her Betta had dropsy. Everyone said to euthanize but she was persistent. She did a treatment and the Betta survived. I'm SO sorry but I don't know the procedure. PM Sakura or OFL.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> good,i thought i sounded rude.which i didnt intend too at all.
> 
> other than fresh water changes is there anything else that could be done to help in the aid?or is this 1 of those unfortunate events where its best to euthanize ?
> 
> id hate to see her go.rather she go from old age.i went to check my bettas just to make sure they arent sick.though i check them 24/7


I posted a treatment guide above/ on the last page, which can help. There are cases where it is curable, although most of the time, the end stages mean the organs are severely damaged, which isnt something very easily to fix. Im not saying it is entirely impossible, just difficult to do.

I'd love to see her make it through, but it is the owner's decision as to what they decide to do, and I respect whatever decision they decide on. It is very difficult, I have been in similar situations.


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## teeneythebetta (Apr 29, 2012)

To the OP- be sure to use vinegar and warm water to clean any and all supplies/equiptment that came in contact with her or her tank at all, or it could infect other fish.


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

teeneythebetta said:


> I posted a treatment guide above/ on the last page, which can help. There are cases where it is curable, although most of the time, the end stages mean the organs are severely damaged, which isnt something very easily to fix. Im not saying it is entirely impossible, just difficult to do.
> 
> I'd love to see her make it through, but it is the owner's decision as to what they decide to do, and I respect whatever decision they decide on. It is very difficult, I have been in similar situations.


oh sorry..i wasnt paying attention.txtn my girls father also..atleast there is a chance.but i too agree with u and respect the OP decision.now all we can do is wait.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Thanks for the support guys. I'm going to try everything that has been recommended and if none of that works then I might look into euthanasia. She doesn't nearly look as bad as a lot of the pictures I've seen of dropsy. This is the first day her scales have protruded as seen in the pic I've posted. For now I'm going to keep trying and be hopeful. Thank you again everyone :]


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

no problem and she has a fighting chance..i still say she can recover especially if her scales are like and its only day 1..please let us know how things are going.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

I just read somewhere that bloating and scale protusion can happen to female bettas when they have eggs in them. Does this mean that protruded scales don't always mean dropsy? :/
My betta still has so many signs of dropsy I'm not gonna rule out that it isn't dropsy. Just curious though.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Well, that much scale raising proves it's Dropsy. Female Bettas do get a little fat but in your case, that's not it. That doesn't explain the lethargy either. I'm sorry but that's definitely Dropsy. :/ Remember the IAL and Oak Leaves!


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i know they will have a big belly...my female i think had eggs but wasnt sure..though her scales didnt protrude.i think ill do some research myself and find out.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> Well, that much scale raising proves it's Dropsy. Female Bettas do get a little fat but in your case, that's not it. That doesn't explain the lethargy either. I'm sorry but that's definitely Dropsy. :/ Remember the IAL and Oak Leaves!


Thanks, I was just wondering. 

Oh and can you buy those leaves at pet stores?


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Well, maybe you can get the dried Oak Leaves from woods or around your home. Remember to wash them! The Indian Almond Leaves... I don't think so, but you can check.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

LebronTheBetta said:


> Well, maybe you can get the dried Oak Leaves from woods or around your home. Remember to wash them! The Indian Almond Leaves... I don't think so, but you can check.


I'll be on the lookout for an oak tree :] thanks!


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

i forgot what the IAL and oak leave do..ome1 refresh my memory?for me its hard to find.i live in phoenix az..so all i see is cactus..i can check some neighbor hoods once the weather isnt so hot


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

They give off an antibacterial effect to unstress the fish and help their immune response. It really helps with them in sickness. It may yellow or brown your water so don't be alarmed if that happens.


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

Cool :] I just found an old post by OFL about how to make the leaf mixture! Definitely doing it first thing in the morning.


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## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

OK, good luck!


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

oh yeah..i forgot that already..i need to find some oak leaves..my male has some really bad torn fins from my other fish eating at him...then he jumped out of the hospital tank as i was grabbing his food.then he jumped out of my hands twice and hit the floor..so he fell 3 times in 1 shot.but he is fine now other than a few more damaged fins.he is watching me as im typing this and ate normally..

i really hope the leaves help with the dropsy


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

prodrumernate said:


> oh yeah..i forgot that already..i need to find some oak leaves..my male has some really bad torn fins from my other fish eating at him...then he jumped out of the hospital tank as i was grabbing his food.then he jumped out of my hands twice and hit the floor..so he fell 3 times in 1 shot.but he is fine now other than a few more damaged fins.he is watching me as im typing this and ate normally..
> 
> i really hope the leaves help with the dropsy


Me too! I hope the leaves help with you fish as well :]


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## stoof (Aug 24, 2012)

So I've done the oak leaf mixture and I've given her epsom salt and maracyn-two. Hopefully we see some improvement! :]


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## prodrumernate (Jun 22, 2012)

let us know if anything.id surly like to hear some good news


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