# Quick! Quick!! Quick!!! Help me!!!!



## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Nope he's still alive ;-)

I just want fast answers... 

I know I said in a previous thread that I was going to wait on more fish... but... 
Well... *Bites Nail* I just want more! 

I've decided on Cories... getting them from PetSmart, I want the most interesting and weirdest variety. 

So Far I've seen Pepper Cories, Albino, and... I dunno..

HOW SHOULD I PICK HEALTHY ONES AND WHAT SIZES? AND HOW MANY? 
WHAT FOOD? 
Should I get any thing else for them? (Money really isn't an issue I got mostly money this Christmas) Like... more hiding spots? More Gravel? More plants? 

Funny enough... here is a direct quotation from my mother... Betta mom's may get a warm feeling haha.

Mom: "Well I mean if you want to get more fish thats alright but Drax seems happy as a Lark by himself! Why chance that he gets killed by these other fish!" 

Me: "Thats why Cories would be an ok choice! Their bottom feeders."

Mom: *Points to Drax* "He's on the bottom now looking at that shell..." 

Me: "Err..."

Mom: "What if the Cories attack him." 

Me: "Thats why you get several Cories."

Mom: "Won't they just gang up on Drax?" 

Me: "No no... Drax would be the Alpha fish mom... you get several other fish so the Cories can protect eachother..." 

Mom: "*Shakes head* Fine if you want to go today (I don't have a car yet >,> I'm poor ok >,<) we can go. So help ... you if Drax gets hurt. I don't want to see his pretty little tail in shreds!" 

Me: *Tries to act all composed and smart* "Mother dear I would float one Cory inside the vase in the tank for like an hour or so and watch Drax's response. If he flares and tries to attack the vase then I'll need to be very vigilant but if he seems curious like he is with the Decor then I shouldn't worry... if something goes wrong then I can always return the Cories."

Mom: *Shakes head* "Up to you... (Giving me that mom look of "It's your choice but I'm not 100% for it.")

Me: "Ah good (Gives my look of "I know what I'm talking about Goldfish Killer.")"

(Me and my mom have realized we are very alike personality wise so we banter alot and have little power struggles, not being mean just... it's like fighting with a female version of myself whose older haha.)










Stats: 
Size: 10Gal
Temp: 76-82F (Hey Drax likes it warm)
Cleaning: *Blushes* Probably too clean haha
Cycled: Not fully but I clean alot so don't even mention water quality. I just like tending to the tank! More fish will make the tending seem more... not crazy haha! 
Salting: Very lightly
Gravel: Look at the pic...
Plants: Look at the pic... 1 Java, Anacharis (Which has since been floated now and recovering) several large submerged vines).


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## Panthera (Nov 2, 2010)

Well I would try and go to a LFS if I were you to get the cories. The ones from Petco/Petsmart will just have diseases and most likely give them to Drax, or be dead within a week. I'd go for Peppered Cories if you can find some decent ones, Albino's are a bit too big and from what I've heard are sickly. 

If it was me, I'd go with 5 Peppered Cories. They don't cost much and will definitely leave Drax alone. Although I would wait until the tank is cycled to put them in. Good luck!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Panthera said:


> Well I would try and go to a LFS if I were you to get the cories. The ones from Petco/Petsmart will just have diseases and most likely give them to Drax, or be dead within a week. I'd go for Peppered Cories if you can find some decent ones, Albino's are a bit too big and from what I've heard are sickly.
> 
> If it was me, I'd go with 5 Peppered Cories. They don't cost much and will definitely leave Drax alone. Although I would wait until the tank is cycled to put them in. Good luck!


Thats the thing... it's my fault the tank is so slow to cycle I clean it too often haha. So there is no chance of spikes from my 'Other Mother' like watching (Coraline Fans should get what I mean). 

Hmm... 5!!! Well I hear 1-3 is the best at a time. So I'll go with 3 peppered Cories. 

I think there is a ... uh... what is LFS mean? (Derp).

*Doubts* 
Your right... I'm just recovering from the Anarcharis infestation of unknown white things (That have since vanished.).

Maybe more fish would drive me crazy... but at the same time... I want to have more fish to care for! 
I think I'd have to go for Petsmart... but the guy whose always there... is REALLY nice and I've mentioned before PROBABLY wouldn't sell me a sick fish he'd probably give me a healthy one. (Why?) he's the one who pushed me to get a 10gal for Drax. Yeah he was being a salesmen but still thats the opposite of 'He only needs a vase' tactic haha.

*EDIT*

OH! Would I need a ... bubbler or something to make the water breathable?


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## shinybetta (Jul 3, 2010)

You could get albino cories from petco. They get decent sized and are very bold. You could do four. And I don't think they will die if boughten from petco. I have never lost a cory and that is where I buy all mine. Just look for ones that are rummaging, active, and not afraid of people.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

You really should wait. I know that's not what you wanna hear but it's the truth. Corys need an established tank and they can be sensitive to changing water conditions. Plus they won't tolerate any salt, so you have to work towards getting the salt out of there.

Have you gotten a testing kit yet?Ii you absolutely HAVE to have them, then at the very least get a master kit while you're out so you know for sure what your water is doing rather then guessing what it's doing. They will have a much better chance at health. But honestly my advice is... Don't rush things!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> You really should wait. I know that's not what you wanna hear but it's the truth. Corys need an established tank and they can be sensitive to changing water conditions. Plus they won't tolerate any salt, so you have to work towards getting the salt out of there.
> 
> Have you gotten a testing kit yet?Ii you absolutely HAVE to have them, then at the very least get a master kit while you're out so you know for sure what your water is doing rather then guessing what it's doing. They will have a much better chance at health. But honestly my advice is... Don't rush things!


*SMACKS... with feather duster* 

Oh please no this is the stuff I want to hear.

Well... *Recalling* At the most there is probably just 2TSP's of salt for the 10gal's still in there. I plan to water change it out though in the coming cleanings. 

I'll have the water tested at PetSmart. (They test for free apparently). 
The guy there (Who I pester alot) knows my situation maybe he can tell me if my tank is cycled already (HECK it could already be cycled and I just don't know it haha). 

I want to get Peppered cories... Albino's oh I don't know I'm weird about colorless fish. 

Like Drax's eye... I think it's only still marginally bad because of all my water changing... I don't think I wait long enough for the water to stop fizzing. Because as the days go by, it gets better... then I clean... and it gets bad again. I need to stop cleaning so much... well and wait longer how long should I wait from... filling jug from Tap, (Adding conditioner) and putting it in the tank?


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

So...
Perhaps what your saying is that I should REALLY just wait? Maybe till spring when I'm out of school for the summer. Otherwise my mom has to feed them during the week, and I'd do cleaning and water changes on the weekends when I often come home. 
Just I'm so hyper about the idea of having a few more fish >,<

Making my mom do all the work? 
Not really, I'm starting to think she really likes the fish tank and likes fiddling with it just not on the OCD level as me.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I agree with Vaygirl, you should wait until you have an established tank. If you are changing the water often, it can stress them out or change the water parameters too much/frequently and be hard on them.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> I agree with Vaygirl, you should wait until you have an established tank. If you are changing the water often, it can stress them out or change the water parameters too much/frequently and be hard on them.


If I was to take a water sample to PetSmart and have them test it (They say they do it for free) can they tell me if my tank has... Established?


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I really recommend you get a testing kit (API master kit is the best IMO). Things can change in an instant sometimes. To cycle and establish your tank, you need to test daily and small water changes daily since there is a fish in the tank while cycling. Once your tank is cycled, it is established. But even then, you need to have the testing kit. YOu can't always make it to Petsmart or Petco in time to test the water if you have to.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> I really recommend you get a testing kit (API master kit is the best IMO). Things can change in an instant sometimes. To cycle and establish your tank, you need to test daily and small water changes daily since there is a fish in the tank while cycling. Once your tank is cycled, it is established. But even then, you need to have the testing kit. YOu can't always make it to Petsmart or Petco in time to test the water if you have to.


That didn't answer my question... like if I went today with water... can they tell me? 

Alright Alright I'll get a testing kit >,> I want to get another plant anyway... You all say (From my Album which is pretty current) that the Anacharis is bleh (BUT it's regrowing), my Java seems to be content (It's starting to get little baby Ferns on it's Leaf Tips (does that mean good health?). 
I hear the phrase... Anubis thrown around alot... would that plant be ok? I hear it needs Drift wood... which would be fine. Just... I'm weird about cleaning would this wood discolor *Twitch* My perfectly clear water heh...


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

they probably could tell you. They could tell you by your ammonia level, nitrItes levels, and nitrAtes level. But if you have kept the tank so clean by doing so many water changes, I doubt it's cycled.

If you boil the driftwood, it will get many of the tannins out of if. That is what discolors the water. I boiled my driftwood a lot before I put it in the tank. Mine never changed my water colors.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm honestly curious... Why not just wait on the corys and pick up a testing kit of your own? Using guesswork when you're kinda new to fish keeping is really a bad idea. Unless you're taking your water in every day to tested, you're taking a chance. 

Take that cory money, get a kit and do the work yourself. It's a great thing to KNOW what's going on. Rely on instinct when you've been at it longer. And when it's cycled (and it might only BE a couple weeks) get your corys and keep track on your own. 

Personally? I won't trust the word of anyone trying to sell me something. Petco/petsmart will tell you all kinds of lies to get you to walk out with fish. But I'm a big ole cynic. 

NOW! I'm off to eat a prosciutto, pear, and blue cheese sandwich....


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes you should wait until you are 100% sure your tank is cycled. Even if you take a sample of your water to the store and it comes out at 0 ammonia etc, it doesnt mean the tank is cycled. It could be so clean because you are just so stubborn with water changes. Cories are scaleless fish so they have very low tolerance for salt, ammonia, and other fluctuations in their water. I suggest you calm down with the water changes and do ONLY a 25-40% WC ONCE a week (ONE betta in a TEN gallon? How much can ONE betta possibly poo?), Trim all the dead parts from your anacharis, and just... calm down. lol. Test your water every few days and then you will see how your cycle is going. 

For cories you will probably want to get more gravel. They really like going around and digging through it. Sand will be even better but its hard to clean. Maybe a few more live plants (anubias does not need driftwood, just anchor it to a rock) and you will be set.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Has stolen your sandwich*
It was dirty... It needed to be cleaned *Breadth smells like cheese* 

I'm 20yrs old an am a Graphic Designer I'm used to being yelled at my professors the worst was my Freshman year in college when I was told in front of my class "If you worked for me... I'd fire you." 

So... *Shakes head* You can't really give me a hard time. So be as brutal as you want, I'm used to it haha. 

Ok ok I'll wait on the Cories *Huffs* 
Since I really don't want to fiddle with a Sand Substrate yet... *Ugh* 

But I REALLY want to do stuff to Drax's tank... I'm an Artist and overly Hyper creative... I want to make it *Twitch* Beautiful... *Smirks* BUT not fake. Real Plants, real stones and shells (Which I've done so far). But I want a tall plant... (The Anacharis was a failure and is now recovering by floating under the light) So how about an easy plant thats Medium to Tall in height. If you give me plant names to tend too I'll do that rather than huff about more fish. Because what harm can a plant DO if it's alive? Haha I mean even that VINE that Drax has loved from the start is actually POISONOUS *Cough* >,> he's lived with it 90% of the time I've had him so I think it's fine. 

As for the Sales People of PetSmart..

You gotta give the old guy whose always around the one I go to. 
Last time I was there I asked for plants and he just got me a bag of the Anacharis and handed me a JavaFern in a little cylinder thing. 
I asked about testing kits and I was pointing to these test strips and other things and as I pointed he just kept shaking his head saying they were useless and didn't do a thing. So he obviously seems to care somewhat.

Ok so not to get distracted... and ... stuff... what Testing kit should I get? I don't really want to spend so much and get the 'Master' kit I've heard mentioned. Because they have SO MUCH there and well I get confused easily haha Just give me a Kit name and I'll get it. 

Bottomline if ya didn't read all that: 
What kind of testing kit... 
and what kind of Plants can I add in (I'm a botanist yes but new to water plants so I'm all enthused) already got a JavaFern and... Recovering Anacharis.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Stop telling me to calm down! What do you think I'm doing? Screaming at the screen? No, I'm just really hyper sounding in writing. I'm probably more chill than you imagine 

Anyway... last few notes... 

Oh the Anubis doesn't need wood? Hmm ah ok good. How about grappling it to a shell? I did it with the Java and it's doing very well. 

... well I'm a clean person and when I see a spec floating around the tank I clean. Even my cleanfreak mom said I need to not care so much haha they live in rice patties... not Sterile Hospitals. 

OH! I want to get some plant fertilizer for the plants... I read that Anubis likes that... so whats a Mild Fertilizer I could get that wouldn't bother Drax. Don't just tell me what kind... give me a brand and a name haha


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I have a plant that has gotten very tall and grows like crazy around the tank... it's Cryptocoryne undulata. Undulata has gotten 10x bigger than my wendtii. It's very easy to take care of and it's really fool proof. Anubis is also an easy plant. Depending on your light strength, Amazon Sword is also an option for you.

API Freshwater Master test kit: http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...-C881-DE11-B712-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA

I use Nutrafin plant gro fertilizer. Bryon recommended it to me. He also recommended Seachem Comprehensive to me.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master and Mini Test Kits 

Can I just get a Mini one >,>


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Master contains everything you need. Mini kits come as ammonia only, ph only, or nitrates and nitrites together.

Looks like it's on sale right now too.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> Master contains everything you need. Mini kits come as ammonia only, ph only, or nitrates and nitrites together.
> 
> Looks like it's on sale right now too.


Oh fine... *Huffs* 
But when I get it later you all better be around for when I post the results and start flipping out over some numbers >,> I'll do it too... I'll find some obscure result and flip out over it XD


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I totally get it. My husband taught graphic design after getting a bachelor's in fine arts. I'm a craft-a-holic. I tinker with my tanks constantly. I tinker with my house constantly. In fact, I just bought a third patchwork quilt in a year trying to get the right 'look'.

For medium/long plants that are easy, I really like water onion. It grows tall and sort of spirals. When it hits the top of the water it floats across the top. Corkscrew vallisneria are also supposed to be pretty easy. Water wisteria is also nice and easy but it can drop leaves and get messy. Um... Lancelota are gorgeous and easy. Wendtii crypts are also very nice. All of mine are growing well, especially in my 10 gallon. I have red and green. They're both doing well.

For fert, I'd go with what Byron says. I use seachem flourish but it can melt some plants.

The API master kit is a good one. Mine has lasted well over a year so far.

Edit- Lol @ the obscure result thing. You will NOT! It's so easy.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

A note on crypt plants is that they do experience crypt melting or crypt rot when you first get them. It's normal as the adjust. They are also a great judge of whether something is changing in your water. They are sensitive to water parameter changes and will begin to melt if something is way off. My boyfriend had Corkscrew, it got super tall hehe. It was one happy plant


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

The master kit is worth it, really! If your fish were to get sick and you only had an ammonia tester you wouldn't be able to tell if he was sick from a nitrite spike, ph fluctuating..etc. All sorts of things you could miss. Plus this will last you FOREVER! So even in the future with other fish you can use the same kit!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Just so you all know... knowing me (You'll learn soon enough) I'll probably end up buying all these plants being mentioned XD and just see what Drax seems to mingle around most. (Don't worry you already know I'm OCD about water... why not let me get alot of plants that I can always spend time trimming them and not cleaning the water hehe)

I don't have MUCH gravel, I'll probably just find more shells in my collection (from vacations long past) and find heavy partially shattered Spiral shells and use them as anchors.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

You have a lot of room for plants, so go for it. My 10 gallon is loaded with em. You can also buy med or large river rocks at Petco and anchor with that. Some of those rocks are stunning.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Plants make the tank so gorgeous. And as vaygirl said, you have 10 gallons so go for it. It'll look great in the end


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> Plants make the tank so gorgeous. And as vaygirl said, you have 10 gallons so go for it. It'll look great in the end


You don't know what you allowing me to do... 

Too late to comment now... bout to do my chores (Leaf Raking... when home for Christmas I'm pretty much the butler for my parents) then off to PetSmart... CIAO FOR NOW!


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Gosh, now I know why I need a son! Happy shopping!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

My plants have been doing great with this supplement. I got it at petco for $7 I think
http://www.petmountain.com/product/aquarium-plant-food/11442-503391/kent-marine-iron-manganese-plant-supplement.html

You dont have some high tech planted tank so no need to waste your money on fancy fertilizers... My java ferns love that stuff - They have become a lovely shade of green ever since I got it. I also use API root tabs for root feeders. 

As for the kit, You dont have to get the entire thing. You can get the ammonia kit and a nitrate (or NitrIte?) kit separately and save some money that way. IF you do opt to go for the entire kit get it online, way cheaper. Walmart.com sells one for $20 vs my local petco that sells practically the same thing for $40.

Tall plants... Apongetons! You can buy them as bulbs at walmart or petco and they grow tall I hear. Just make sure you have enough substrate for them to take root. Petco also sells Java ferns in the tubes, As you may know the tubes come in large sizes as well.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Comes back with several bags... none of which you see a test Kit*

>,>

Shut Up... 

Let me explain... 

I got the water tested... Don't know the numbers but here's what the person who tested the water said (Told her what my tank is and that I have just one Betta)

Ammonia: None
Chlorine: None
Nitrates: High
NitrItes: High
(She said other things but I forgot but that they were good)

Told her how OCD I am about cleaning... I asked about the master API Kit and she said I really didn't want to get it. That I could come in at ANY time and get the water tested and to not test it for a week since I've just NOW stopped doing the heavy cleaning. To wait a week and then come have it tested again for Free. 
My Penny Pinching mom is standing right there too... SO WHAT WAS I SUPPOSED TO SAY!? She just gave me a look and I'm like. "Um... right I don't need this... ehh...hehe... *Sighs* I'll just come back again..."

I did manage (We were in a hurry so I REALLY REALLY couldn't browse, my dad gets mad if dinner isn't on the table at 5:30pm.(When he gets home from work... which is the City Court House) So I didn't want to have my mom wait. Even though I just murmured all the way home... about why I couldn't drive (She won't let me drive her new car >,> ... so I take turns fast ehe...)

... let me restart... I did manage to grab 3 plants before I was pretty much dragged off by my 'frantic-to-get-dinner-started-mom' not blaming her haha just I wished I had had more time. 

I grabbed an Anubias,... the other 2 none of you mentioned since they didn't have any of those sadly. The other 2 are... 1 Kyoto Grass, and 1 Wisteria... it was the same old guy so I trusted him. 

I also got 2 bags of Top Fin Stones... each just for a dollar... there pretty haha. 

I'll wait a week on cleaning and get the water tested... if it's totally bonkers I'll probably be able to 'Guilt' my mother into letting me get it. It's my money but you don't know my mom >,>

Anyway yeah... 

Soo... 

Was wondering where I should put these plants in my tank. 









This Picture was taken just 2 hours ago...

The top right corner held together by a plastic vented... thing is the Anacharis which is slowly recovering.

The Bottom Left corner is the Java Fern.

Overhanging it all is the Varigated Philodendron Vine. 

The light is from bright LED's and also an old lamp off to the right, and about a few hours of morning sun (Not direct, well... sorta). 

I got plenty of things to anchor the plants but just was curious if maybe you could tell me some spots you'd think the Anubias, Kyoto, and Wisteria would do best in. 

Sorry about the Water Kit... I got attacked by my Penny Pinching Mother and then Tripped up by the Water Test Lady who told me not to worry that the water is fine currently and to wait, and retest in a week.

Wait why am I apologizing... oh right I want to be considered a true Fish Hobbyist haha.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I honestly do not trust a thing Petsmart or Petco tells me. They told me that for plant fertilizer, I should use a water dechlorinator and so the chlorine doesn't eat my plants. Seriously.... buy the testing kit. It'll save you in the long run. That is just one of my many stories from the Petsmart fish department. 

On another note, yay for new plants and gravel!!


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Kyoto grass isnt aquatic. It will survive fine for a while as it is adapted to living in flooded areas but it will eventually die if kept submerged permanently.

Wisteria can be left as a floating plant I think. Not sure what you can do with the grass. You should get more gravel so you can properly plant your plants if you are interested in getting any more of them.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> Kyoto grass isnt aquatic. It will survive fine for a while as it is adapted to living in flooded areas but it will eventually die if kept submerged permanently.
> 
> Wisteria can be left as a floating plant I think. Not sure what you can do with the grass. You should get more gravel so you can properly plant your plants if you are interested in getting any more of them.



Ok I lied... the old guy gave me the Wisteria but I snagged a random plant while being dragged off *Face Palms* COURSE I would snag (On a Shelf of all Underwater plants) grab the one Semi-Aquatic. So how can I keep the Kyoto Grass alive in the tank?


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Alex09 said:


> Kyoto grass isnt aquatic. It will survive fine for a while as it is adapted to living in flooded areas but it will eventually die if kept submerged permanently.
> 
> Wisteria can be left as a floating plant I think. Not sure what you can do with the grass. You should get more gravel so you can properly plant your plants if you are interested in getting any more of them.


I was just getting ready to add that Kyoto grass wasn't aquatic. I didn't think I had heard of it before. But Wisteria is a great plant and will look great


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

About the grass: Found this online:


> The Kyoto grass/mondo grass will live AND grow in your tank if you take it out every few weeks to a couple of months for a few days to let air get to the roots. You can trim the dead stuff off at that time. It goes through a growth spurt after this is done but this is a sloooow growing plant in the tank.


Oh, and because your tank has high nitrates, your tanks isnt cycled. Good thing you didnt get those cories! So calm down on the cleaning and let your ank cycle itself.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> About the grass: Found this online:
> 
> 
> Oh, and because your tank has high nitrates, your tanks isnt cycled. Good thing you didnt get those cories! So calm down on the cleaning and let your ank cycle itself.


But it's ok for Drax? 

I asked the Lady but oooh how I bet some of you would have slapped her... her words were... "Betta's? Haha those fish are used to very poor water conditions!"


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Still would perhaps like a few ideas of where to put these things *Points to picture in the 3rd page of the thread* 

Maybe just set the Kyoto gently ontop of the cave so it's raised and easy to retrieve every now and then? Then... the others? Hmm? Hmm? I'm an artist I can't make decisions for myself XD


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Holds up Gravel Vac* 

I want to do something with the tank... perhaps if no one is around to give me Creative ideas I'll just... clean the water... 

*Suddenly has Button Eyes* 
Since... Even the Proudest Spirit Can Be Broken... With Love... 
(What I like Coraline and I feel like it's a good refer to me over cleaning)

*Lets the Gravel hose swing back and forth* 

I assume I can just rinse out the stones and plants normally in warm water and just Anchor them... That I know, and just sink them. 

and I can do all this without changing the water? Heh... guess I can sink them as long as I don't nail Drax in the head with them haha


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

No offense, but you need a vacation and a massage. Really.

If you have shells, maybe you could make a cave out of those?
I might get some of those rocks...


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

She said you have high nitrites? That's not a good thing for lil Drax to be swimming around in. I don't understand how these petco people get jobs working with fish. Nitrites are poisonous. I don't know what 'high' nitrites are but if it were me, I'd be doing daily 50% water changes. No gravel vacuuming. Just water out, water in.

And yeah, you can just rinse the stones. Do it in tank water though. I don't think they'll like chlorine. Happy planting!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm on Christmas Vacation... 

I just get VERY high Strung. 

Hmm... Well Drax is acting fine. The woman said not to do water changes for the next week. My mom heard her say that... ehe... so now I'm not allowed to touch the water for 7 days... if I do... 
*Shrugs* Not much she could do... Ground her College student son? Hahahahahaha Doubt it. She'd probably use her 'MOTHERLY GUILT' attacks (Which... are Highly Effective). 

I'll take pics after I get the plants in... with no creative tips from you guys XP


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Well simply put.... either you listen to the Petco or Petsmart employee..... or you listen to us. One gives you a living Drax and the other gives you a dead Drax. You choose. You need to be changing that water.... it will kill him quickly. You got gravel you said? I'd be putting that in also to help with the plants.


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## Synthisis (Jun 4, 2009)

Be very careful with stones. I had some, I heated them in hot water and had them sterilized the proper way.

They still killed my fish.

Its absolutly crucial that the tank cycles properly. Dont even touch it.

Id give your fish some fresh water though... that tank is going to get very potent before it levels out.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> Well simply put.... either you listen to the Petco or Petsmart employee..... or you listen to us. One gives you a living Drax and the other gives you a dead Drax. You choose. You need to be changing that water.... it will kill him quickly. You got gravel you said? I'd be putting that in also to help with the plants.


I did a small 10% change when no one was looking. That will have to do now and I'll do a larger change tomorrow... like 40%, should I vac as well? Or just water... cuz the Kyoto which I cleaned OCD like for a few mins... sent out a million almost unnoticeable granules of debris when I sank it *Twitch* 

I'll have pictures in a minute... 

A Teaser...my work made even my parents go "Oooh!"


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Just change the water honestly. One fish can't have that much poop. But you may want to suction out the junk you got from the Kyoto.... at least enough to get out hte visible debris from it.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Takes Bow* Not bad for simply dropping the plants in I suppose haha. 
The stones? Don't worry didn't drop those in... used the net and put a few in at a time by over turning the net, and then holding the net side and scooting the rocks around with the nets handle. 

Too late on the Kyoto debris it must have dissolved or just dispersed enough. Then again... even as bad as the Anacharis got when it was ill (Getting better now) the filter seemed to eventually snag the floating leaves. 

If you want to scare me into doing another water change *Has his arms folded ontop of tank* Then tell me just what Nitrates are and NitrItes... I really would do it now but I just cleaned up all the water I dripped and put everything away. (Kinda gotta keep water off of everything haha man I wish we had tile).

*Edit* Wow those plants aren't impressive... 

But they shall grow, and become impressive bwahaha


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## LeroyTheBetta (Dec 18, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> Oh fine... *Huffs*
> But when I get it later you all better be around for when I post the results and start flipping out over some numbers >,> I'll do it too... I'll find some obscure result and flip out over it XD


 
lol... Hmm, why is it that I actually do believe you when you say you'll flip out? Just a feeling I'm getting, maybe. I'm good at sensing things with introverted, quiet people. hehe

Anyway, good luck with your testing kit & plants. I am new to fish and got 3 peppered cories. My betta, Leroy, completely ignores them and the 3 neon tetras. The cories just go about their business and ignore the others as well. The neon tetras.... well.... they're just little. They like cruising around through the plants. One big, happy, mind-their-own-business family! But, they all have their individual personalities.


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## Synthisis (Jun 4, 2009)

DormDrax said:


> I'm on Christmas Vacation...
> 
> I just get VERY high Strung.
> 
> ...


Ground a college student? I haven't been grounded since i was like... 12 - and that was 10 years ago.

Your going to need either Sand or Gravel for the Cory Cats. Cory's are schoolers and they love to dig. I have 9 in my tank and they all travel around digging in the gravel. You cant plant plants in sand and you cant use a gravel vac on it really.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Nitrite poisoning info from another website:
What is it? 
Nitrite is toxic to fish, and can cause death when in high levels in an aquarium. See "new tank syndrome" for information on how nitrite is produced, and how to eliminate it.
The danger often comes when fish get weak as a result of being stressed from the nitrite. They are more susceptible to parasites, bacteria and other diseases.

Symptoms: 
Fish may sit at the bottom of the aquarium, without much movement. They may also go to the surface of the aquarium, gasping for air. The may appear lethargic and off colour. Burning to the skin may occur, if so the skin will appear red and excess mucus may be produced. Their gills may appear brown of lilac in colour. They may also 'flash' and scratch up against aquarium objects.

As Nitrite poisoning produces very similar symptoms to many other diseases certain diagnosis can only be made with a nitrite testing kit.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> Nitrite poisoning info from another website:
> What is it?
> Nitrite is toxic to fish, and can cause death when in high levels in an aquarium. See "new tank syndrome" for information on how nitrite is produced, and how to eliminate it.
> The danger often comes when fish get weak as a result of being stressed from the nitrite. They are more susceptible to parasites, bacteria and other diseases.
> ...


*Shakes head*

Well that Water Testing Lady didn't seem to know what end of the strip to read. So when she said high... she probably meant 'Above Normal' which is probably expected. 

Hmm... you know what, just because I love going to Petsmart now... and because I love going against' my parents (YEAH Sorta Rebel!) when spending money. Hey it's my money dangit! Not like I'm buying a car! 
I did see a version of the MASTER test kit that was only 12$ it was 25 '6 Level' Test strips. 
Yet... the Master Kit had all sorts of bottles in it... 
Now thats where that Water Test Lady made me role my eyes (All the while my mom was taking notes) she's looking at the kit and couldn't make up her mind with what to say about it. 
"It has the things to correct problems in it... err *Flipping kit over* Wait no it doesn't... just the tests." I wanted to slap her... 
too bad that old guy I liked didn't pop around till I was about to leave and he pretty much threw me the Anubias plant (Which if you look... dang he gave me a healthy one!). 

Ok my point is... my friend has been wanting to hang (he's the type of friend you can only stand seeing maybe ONCE a week.) Maybe I could trick him into taking me to PetSmart >,> *Devious Trickery* What? He's the friend with the car haha.... *Glances at phone* Oh SPEAK of the devil he's texting me now to hang... >,< (I don't have a car yet... is that a problem?!?!!!)

OH! The point I wanted to make... about the Symptoms... 
Yeah Drax has none of those.


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Testing strips aren't as accurate as the liquid testing kits. So, again, I recommend API master (or even if you want the smaller API kits...). You do need to keep up with the testing of the water and changing the water if the water parameters are too toxic. If you don't, those symptoms may possibly begin to appear.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> Testing strips aren't as accurate as the liquid testing kits. So, again, I recommend API master (or even if you want the smaller API kits...). You do need to keep up with the testing of the water and changing the water if the water parameters are too toxic. If you don't, those symptoms may possibly begin to appear.


I don't see why anything could be high when I just did a large water change just mere days ago.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Also for goodness sakes I know I said I don't mind being scrutinized but this is getting alittle out of hand. 

If you make comments about the plants then you can make a comment about the water hahaha. 

I can't do water changes now even if I wanted too, dad went to sleep and he hasn't been sleeping well. If I go to my room and start moving buckets back and forth... he'd kill me XD (My parents room is in between mine and the bathroom and the hallway creaks BADLY >,> stupid wood floors. )


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, fish excrete ammonia through their gills every day and their poo produces ammonia. This is the reason for cycling. Ammonia gets turned into poisonous nitrite but that nitrite is changed into much less poisonous nitrate. Your ideal reading should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and less then 20ppm of nitrate. 

Drax is at a disadvantage already, being that he has a bad eye. His eye is going to be prone to infection as it is. If he's swimming around in nitrite for a week, and you aren't able to monitor the levels for him, it's going to feel very uncomfortable to him. Understand in the end, your bettas health is all I _really_ care about. 

Your plants are nice.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> Well, fish excrete ammonia through their gills every day and their poo produces ammonia. This is the reason for cycling. Ammonia gets turned into poisonous nitrite but that nitrite is changed into much less poisonous nitrate. Your ideal reading should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and less then 20ppm of nitrate.
> 
> Drax is at a disadvantage already, being that he has a bad eye. His eye is going to be prone to infection as it is. If he's swimming around in nitrite for a week, and you aren't able to monitor the levels for him, it's going to feel very uncomfortable to him. Understand in the end, your bettas health is all I _really_ care about.
> 
> Your plants are nice.












I think he'll survive till morning. Against mothers wish's I'll do a 50% water change after they both go to work I just won't OCD Gravel Vac everything.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep, do what you've gotta do. I understand. I, too, have a Mother. Lol! Course, she's in Florida!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> Yep, do what you've gotta do. I understand. I, too, have a Mother. Lol! Course, she's in Florida!


I feel you REALLY just want to say. "DO THE WATER CHANGE NOW!" 

Just a refresher I did do a small water change after I put the plants in. 

I'll do the water change don't worry, just... in about 12 hours. 

*Mom wonders in because I told her to check the Tank temp before she went to bed... currently in basement because dog likes company otherwise she whines all night, she's old can't make it up the steps* 

Mom: "The temp is at 80."

Me: "Thats fine thats what I wanted it at." 

Mom: "Why do you seem so out of it?"

Me: "Nitrites and Nitrates are horrible for Drax." 

Mom: "The woman said it was fine for a Betta."

Me: "The woman didn't even know how to explain the master kit, I highly doubt she read it right..." 

Mom: "Drax is happy as a lark right now stop worrying!" 

Me: "*Rollseyes*"


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

It'll be fine til morning. Go to bed! I'm also an almost 40 year old woman who likes her own quiet at night, so I can see both sides!


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

lol. It will be fine till morning. Daily is all that is necessary in all reality. Mom's will be mom's


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Alright...

I do one gallon at a time. How long should I let the water sit before adding it. My water does bubble.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I let mine sit for about 15 minutes. I'm doing the same thing today. Tested my 16 and had 60 ppm of nitrates. :/ 

Let the water changes begin!


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> I let mine sit for about 15 minutes. I'm doing the same thing today. Tested my 16 and had 60 ppm of nitrates. :/
> 
> Let the water changes begin!


*High Fives*


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Alright... 

Wow... waiting just 15 minutes between putting each gallon back in... wow... 
NO bubbles on the glass. Normally the tank glass gets shrouded in bubbles. 

BTW don't throw flakes at me but I leave Drax in the tank... 
*Flails* 
Wait wait... I use the gravel... Vac... Siphon thing to slowly pull out water into a bucket. No no not dunking in a bucket and freaking him out... haha. 

Also using the Siphon to put the water back in by putting the jug on a box higher than the tank. 

Drax wow must be the most CHILL betta! He doesn't even seem to care... the water level is dropping but he's just like? "Oh... this again?... Feed me now that your here O-O."


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Pfft. I leave all my fish in their tanks. You had to do it gallon by gallon? Oiy! That's why I've saved every spring water gallon jug that passed my door. I have four of them. And I use a 4 gallon bucket for the water out. I use the siphon just like you said. I wedge it in one corner, sunk in the gravel. Gallon by gallon would drive me up a wall. LOL.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> Pfft. I leave all my fish in their tanks. You had to do it gallon by gallon? Oiy! That's why I've saved every spring water gallon jug that passed my door. I have four of them. And I use a 4 gallon bucket for the water out. I use the siphon just like you said. I wedge it in one corner, sunk in the gravel. Gallon by gallon would drive me up a wall. LOL.


Well a 2 gallon bucket... but it's the bucket for everything so I can't use it to put water back. I mean... I just used it to clean the bathroom floors (I told you I'm the freaking butler! When home!) The jug I use was a sterile distilled water jug thats never ya know... seen soaps. 

Oh I just thought some guys would be like. "OMG! Water changes with fish in is soo stressful!" 

Keep in mind... I have 1 10gal haha not nearly as many as you haha. So heading upstairs every 15mins to siphon another gallon in isn't so bad. Since I'm just doing a 50% change. 

So like... I keep asking what do stress strips look like? I keep thinking he may... but he just has a Marble coloring so it's hard to tell.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I think you'd notice. Kilo is the only one of mine who gets stripes and he generally gets pale in the face at the same time. That's how I can tell. They'll be horizontal stripes. Drax is dark, so you'd notice I think, even with the marbling. Light ones, you can't really tell. If he's not running from the siphon, not to worry. Mine are usually right there watching stuff get sucked up and trying to eat it through the tube. Even my completely skittish Dwarf Puffer fish is used to water changes.

It helps me to think of it this way... in the wild, any animal is subject to occasional stress. We're all geared to handle it. It's prolonged stress that's the real killer.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I water change all of mine with the fish still in. It stresses the females out more trying to scoop them up, than it does just changing the water. I do everything from 10 - 90% water changes. You just have to watch your gravel siphon because fish can get caught and sucked up if they get near the intake.

Apart from that, my goldfish love water change day. I stir up all the crap at the bottom for them to eat, and when I pour in the fresh water they have a blast swimming in the current.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Good thing I have a 5 gal bucket (you can buy it at walmart) and my bedroom has it's own bathroom! Water changes (50%) on my 10 gal are a breeze! just takes 10 minutes


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I water change all of mine with the fish still in. It stresses the females out more trying to scoop them up, than it does just changing the water. I do everything from 10 - 90% water changes. You just have to watch your gravel siphon because fish can get caught and sucked up if they get near the intake.
> 
> Apart from that, my goldfish love water change day. I stir up all the crap at the bottom for them to eat, and when I pour in the fresh water they have a blast swimming in the current.


When I used to Salt Drax would swim through the waterfall back and forth which worried me XD

Well... Changes done. Drax has 50% cleaned... let sit for awhile water haha. Temp is at 79F.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

dr2b said:


> I honestly do not trust a thing Petsmart or Petco tells me.


Meh, Petco, Petsmart are fine. It comes down to the individual employee and that goes for ANY Merchandise. Even some of the threads here I take with a grain of salt as I have had no issues with <insert subject matter here> that is negatively viewed.

Bottomline, it's a world of the internet. You have vast resources by a simple google search where you get pros and cons of any subject matter. It's up to you as the consumer to do your research to come to a common sense decision.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

DormDrax:

I've enjoyed your thread! A couple of thoughts:

I'm OCD when it comes to my tank, too. I got the API Master testing kit, and it has proved invaluable, especially when the tank was cycling. I doubt my betta (Baby Blue) would have lived through the cycling process if I didn't watch the chemistry like a hawk!

Testing your own tank water (like a mad scientist) is an excellent outlet for OCD. 

I know its hard to wait... it's very exciting, to be the master of your bio'square' (as opposed to bio'sphere' - your tank's not round)! You'll avoid a lot of fish death (always a bummer) by listening to these folks on the board.

My betta, Baby Blue, is a very large (3"), aggressive female veiltail who has had a few tankmates:

1) Ghost Shrimp - she made them all truely, permanently invisible; 

2) Larry the Loach - actually matured into a female, lol! BB seems not to bother her. And Larry (Laurina) is a weird loach. Not shy, not one little bit! We find her hanging off bushes and stuck upside down in holes.

3)Coris (green, max. 2") - Bought four (Eeny, Meany, Miney and Moe). Moe got attacked and was euthanized. The other three are tolerated (occasionally flared at and herded. BB also tries to eat their bottom feeder pellets).

If BB is getting out of hand, I turn off the tank light. She relies more on sight than the bottom dwellers do, so if she can't see, she can't bug them while they eat. 

I used to worry about tinkering with the minutae of the incomming water quality. Now, if it's the right temperture and I've added the Betta conditioner, the water goes in and the fish happily live another day. They've adjusted to the PH.

I have seen my betta get pale from stress... turning on the tank light abruptly in darkenss, for example. But she's healthy, jumping and fiesty - and big! She regains her brillant color qucikly. If she stayed pale or became inactive the first thing I'd do is grab my API kit and do some serious testing!

So get the kit - it's your most valuable tool to monitor your fishes' environment.

One last thought - don't trust any retailers of fish, if they are not breeders themselves. Check the tanks carefully in any store - any fish death or signs of illness - *do not buy fish from those tanks!* Deal only with breeders or very responsible retailers. If you find poor fish husbandry in a store, ask to speak to a manager and let them know you won't buy fish from their store until they clean up their act - you'd be surprised how well this approach works!

Good luck to you,
Cheryl


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Congrats! 

I'll have you all know I had my mother read the last few of these comments and she finally gave in that you guys seem to know more than the PetSmart people and that I can get the Master Test Kit if I want too. ... well I always could but she would have had a fit... now I can get it without her having a fit >,<


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Hooray! 

Happy Testing!

Cheryl


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

here fishy fishy fishy said:


> hooray! :d
> 
> happy testing!
> 
> Cheryl


hooray! XD


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm happy for all of you!


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

Master test kit is a good bargain. Over 800 tests for 20+ bucks. Basically will last you a lifetime on a single tank.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Great about the test kit! One thing I'm surprised hasn't come up is that live plants take in some of the nirtrAtes and nitrItes.

This is rewally off topic, but wqhat is the brand of your Gravel Vac?


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> Great about the test kit! One thing I'm surprised hasn't come up is that live plants take in some of the nirtrAtes and nitrItes.
> 
> This is rewally off topic, but wqhat is the brand of your Gravel Vac?


It's not so much a vac as a 6$ Siphon... it's like the cheapest Petsmart has. 

The... TOP FIN MINI GRAVEL VAC


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

I thought I'd tell you that that "Wysteria" isn't actually Wysteria. Wysteria looks like this: 








It has the same shape even when it's young.

What you've got is a round spikey leaved plant. It's not your fault of course. It's the stores for putting terrestrial plants in tubes, mislabeling them, and selling them for a ridiculous profit to people that are unfamiliar with them.

I don't think that grass looking plant is truly aquatic either. :/ I'll do a quick search on the name... Oh Alex answered that already! XD And again it's not your fault! The only truly aquatic plants most stores sell in tubes are the Java Fern, and the Anubias. Not your fault at all there. :/ The only place you can reliably get aquatic plants is from someone who already has them and grows them. Namely sellers on aquatic plant sites and friendly people on aquatic plant forums such as http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/.

You might want to take a look around this site before you buy any more plants at the pet store. It's an online aquatic plant store. You can find examples of the more common and easier to grow species of plants with pictures here and if you're interested you can purchase some too. =] If you use the code *BETTAFISH* at check out (yes it needs to be all-caps) then you'll get 10% off of your purchase. =]

She also sells a few species of shrimp including Red Cherry Shrimp, and a few different species of snails. My favorite snails are the Malaysian Trumpet Snails, and the Blue Ramshorn. The blue ramshorn can get pretty big but it's VERY cool looking. There is a possible threat that the Ramshorn will eat your plants but that might just be a rumor. I know OFL has Ramshorn and I think she likes hers... my memory's a bit foggy. XD

You'll want to be getting more substrate if you want to plant your tank. Also if you get swords or crypts you'll probably need either root tabs or enriched substrate like ADA soil, Aquasoil, or something from CaribSea.

If you don't want to rely on the substrate and roots then I suggest mainly going after stem plants. They're usually cheap and a lot of them look really cool!

Stem plants that are awesome:

Stargrass
Hornwort (may "shed")
Creeping Jenny (both Gold and Green)
Creeping Charlie
(Real)Wysteria
Water Sprite
Mexican Oak Leaf
Rotala Rotundifolia

Other easy plants: 

Dwarf Lily/Tiger Lotus

Floaters (REALLY easy and great cleaners): 
Frogbit
Water Lettuce
Red Root Floater
Water Meal
Water Spangels
Ricca/crystalwort

*Plants do remove some of the ammonia, and nitrite. They don't remove all of it though unless the tank is heavily planted and gets plenty of the right temperature of light.* I'm pretty sure you're all right with this though as you enjoy doing maintenance on your tank and keeping up with your water changes.

You'll want a light bulb that's rated at 6,500 K(elvins). You can find bulbs like these at your local Lowes, Home Depot, or Hardware Store of your choice. They're usually called Daylight bulbs.

Wait a sec and I can tell you the brand name of my 13 watt 6,500 K mini CFLs.....

Mine are SYLVANIA brand mirco-mini 13 watt Daylight (6,500K) CFLs (oh brands and their all-caps. ). They come in blue and green packaging with white at the top where the brand name is. Mine are also apparently Instant-On which is why I don't have to wait 30 seconds for them to warm up. =]

That or you'll want the tank to be near a south facing window (I assume you live in the US or Canada DormDrax?) and to close the blinds for a few hours mid-day to give the tank a breather and help it to restore its natural CO2 levels.

And what a lot of people meant by Established Tank was not only the tank's Cycle but the formation of algae, and waste litter on the substrate for the corries to forage. They won't be as happy if the tank is too super clean because scavenging for detritus is how they naturally get their food. =]

Sorry for the short novel I just thought I'd address what I could. =]


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

No, the plant he has _*is*_ wisteria, the thing is, many of the plants sold in the tubes come in their emmersed form as they are grown out of water. Once you put them under water they will switch over to their submerged aquatic form. It will take a few weeks but it will happen, once it does the wisteria will go crazy. It has happened to me before. Same with the other tube plants such as Hygrophila (compacta) and Argentine Sword. So long as you know which plants are truly aquatic, those tube plants make a pretty good deal. They are cheaper and they dont come with snails or other hitchhikers like the plants in the tank do. My Hygro tube gave me 5 stems, and my wisteria tube gave me 5-6 stems as well. All my java ferns are pretty healthy too. 

What wisteria looks like when grown out of water:









SOURCE: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=137&filter=3


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Oh and btw, house plants LOVE dirty fish water! I water my plants while I'm changing tank water.


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> Oh and btw, house plants LOVE dirty fish water! I water my plants while I'm changing tank water.


Yes! right out my room (I live in an add-on to our garage) we have a row of orange trees. I always dump 5 gallons of dirty poo water on one of the trees weekly. That tree is doing better than its siblings lol.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Wally, Alex... thanks for the info! 

Alex, Yes thats the plant... Wysteria, my mom said it's actually a scent... when I opened the tube... she was right it had perfumed the room with a strong (BUT GOOD) odor. Inside each of the leaves, already seem to have little stranger looking leaves coming out of it I thought they were green roots and was nervous because the (I guess Semi water) leaves are begining to ... not die but curl down slowly, not brown, just reshape. 

The Kyoto is looking alright, I'll let it dry every few weeks. 

The Anubias I MUST be seeing things now (I really think I am) but has probably added already an inch to it's roots. Since one was just starting to creep along one of those Peach colored stones (Their rather flat stones bout an inch and a half wide) and already the root has almost covered the stone. 

The Anacharis now that it's in more light is now Drax's favorite hiding spot. 

Java... I don't think it's fairing well but it's getting many baby Java's already on leaf tips. 

Ok enough of the plants... heh...

Drax? Oh he's being particularly adorable today, so every time I wander into my room I lose about 10 minutes watching him. 

*Raises eyebrow*
How about a Bladderwort? A Carnivorous plant able to eat small water bugs. I believe it's FreshWater

Not going to lie... the Bladderwort strangely enough sounds rather hardy and probably should be noted on this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utricularia I've researched this plant before and know if you root around for them... you can find them for Purchase. If I do come across a seller (I'll probably ask around the St. Louis Botanical Gardens, for whom I worked for till they had money issues and cut their younger staff.) I'll see how it reacts with the tank. Since they eat small insects that your betta probably won't eat... and are known for their HIGHLY sophisticated 'Bladder' traps and HIGHLY prized flowers. (No I'm not rereading the Wiki this is my knowledge, just linking Wiki for the images.) So if you have a Daphnia problem... or Planeria issue sounds like the Bladderwort could assist you in your tank without risky chemicals.

Ok ok now THIS is from the WIKI...... they grow in RicePaddies in Thailand... *Smirks* What ELSE do we know is native to Rice Paddies?


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Continuation from above*

Hmm... 
I was done with what I had to do so I did alittle meddling. 

Even emailed a few of my Crazy Plant Friends... Seems the consensus is that the Bladderwort would be a pest plant getting tangled in everything... BUT and I mean a HUGE BUT! The Bladderwort is VERY fragile and barley pulling at it's leaves can break them so... Trimming it would be as easy as pretty much just netting it. 

Which doing this research... I stumbled open some interesting other info... about... ICH
Apparently MOST Tanks carry ICH in a small amount no matter what you do, most fish if they are healthy can just fight it off like a cold. But it's when the fish DOES get alittle sick the ICH starts attacking fairly quickly... Tried to see if the Bladderwort could help... IT CAN! But... only slightly, even if your Bladderwort just sucked up ICH right and left it wouldn't possibly get it all... and all you need is one free swimming ICH to keep the infestation.

But can really help with other small pests! So if your somewhat competent with keeping upkeep... the Bladderwort sounds like an excellent/curious thing to add (It grows like a weed so every few days would need to have part removed) Another thing to add... it gets GORGEOUS Orchid like flowers


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Vaygirl & Alex09:

Plants: excellent use for used fish water! I have alot of indoor plants (including a Kumquat); I bet they'll love their new liquid fertilizer


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

Oh yes, plants love the dirty fish water. Funny thing is, there are 3 main plants I usually dump the water on... and they are the healthiest plants we have.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Flails* 

Hey! What about my comments about the Bladderwort!


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## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

Oh gosh! I' seen some pictures of emersed leaves of fully grown plants but the pictures I saw must have been at a half way point to turning round! I'm sorry about my misinformation!

Congrats on your plant growth! =] That Java fern must look pretty cool with the baby leaves sprouting off of it!

The bladderwort sounds really awesome! I can't wait to see it in your tank! =]


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Don't congratulate me XD 

All I did was anchor the plants in shells and dropped them. 

Well... and change the lighting every few hours to help revive the recovering Anacharis. 

Yeah I used to dump the water in the tub... or Toilet... now I dump into random plants. Hahah hadn't given some of these plants much love lately and ended up over watering them and had to clean up alot of water that leaked onto the floors hahaha from the pots (Which have saucers but just never gave them that much) We'll see if my old Hibiscus (Old Straggly thing that I just butchered into a tiny nub to let it bush again) revives (Normally does, it's almost as old as me, first flower I ever took care of when I was like... 5, it's the classic big red bloom)


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I've never heard of Bladderwort... so I really have nothing to say on that. But it sounds interesting. Post pics if you get it.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> I've never heard of Bladderwort... so I really have nothing to say on that. But it sounds interesting. Post pics if you get it.


I'll call the Botanical Gardens tomorrow... they have annoying 'Call' hours... I was just 3mins too late to call them today XP 

I used to work there, and they let me go for stupid reasons so perhaps I can ... oh hmm actually maybe I can see if ... wow forgot about trying to get hired there again oh well worth a try after I ask about the Bladderwort. 

I just want to ask if they will have any soon... every now and then they seem to have some for sale. 

I read they are good but as I said... if they like the tank become a pest but that doesn't seem to be an issue for someone OCD like me.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

DormDrax:

Lovely Bladderwort posting... alas, I only keep potted plants not living 'water gardens', so 'water plant' commentary is lost on me. 

I am learning alot reading about water plants so who knows, maybe someday when I can afford a larger set up, I might yet tackle them.

Life is for learning...

Cheryl


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

The bladderwort sounds interesting. If you let it get too big it might eat Drax!


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

I'm not entirely sure what the pet store uses to test their water, it could be the inaccurate test stripes >,> so definitely get your own test kit, 'cause they could always be wrong...


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> It's not so much a vac as a 6$ Siphon... it's like the cheapest Petsmart has.
> 
> The... TOP FIN MINI GRAVEL VAC


Hey I have one of those, they work great on my 14. I like the narrow siphon opening, easier to get into tight crevices without having to shove items aside.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> The bladderwort sounds interesting. If you let it get too big it might eat Drax!


Fishman:
My mom made a similar joke not just 10 minutes ago... 

Bettafish: 
That I'm sure of the girl who did the test looked new... I swear it must have been her first time since she kept turning the strip over and over like she couldn't make heads or tails of it. 

Scoot:
Oh yeah I love the thing!


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

I'm still amazed a pet store used testing strips. Every store here uses the master test kit.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

dr2b said:


> I'm still amazed a pet store used testing strips. Every store here uses the master test kit.


Like I said... never seen her before she must have been new. 

Drax Update:
I think I fed him too much >,< 
He's got a betta belly... to make it worse he dove down and snatched up the food that fell... which I was going to snag out after I was done. 
Ugh... he's not a fish... he's a pig with fins...


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

DormDrax:

LOL! Yes, Bettas _are_ pigs with fins. Baby Blue thinks every bit of food that comes into the tank is for her... she competes with the bottom feeders for their sinking pellets!

It's easy to overfeed them because they ALWAYS look hungry, and if you feed them the reccomended amount they ALWAYS look for more. 

I fed BB more liberally when she was a fry... twice a day. At 3", I'd say she's full grown (and about a year old)! I feed her once a day now. 

How is your Bladderwort quest coming along?


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Here Fishy Fishy Fishy said:


> DormDrax:
> 
> LOL! Yes, Bettas _are_ pigs with fins. Baby Blue thinks every bit of food that comes into the tank is for her... she competes with the bottom feeders for their sinking pellets!
> 
> ...


Oh LORD Thanks for reminding me I have time to call the Gardens before their call lines close. 

Once a day?
If I did that... Drax would punch through the glass >,>


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

http://stlcarns.homestead.com/bladderworts.html

AHA! 
Interesting tidbits.

Didn't have much to go on. 

It is winter... 

Got a few numbers of people from a Carnivorous Plant Society of St. Louis (BAD WEBSITE WARNING... because it's old and lame) http://stlcarns.homestead.com/bladderworts.html



THANK HEAVENS! 

I found this site... http://mysite.verizon.net/elgecko1989/Utricularia.html Much better. It does say soil but... they can be in water too.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Api master kit*

Uh... I finally got it... the results? ........................................... I dunno

PH: 8.0
Ammonia: None
Nitrates: None
Nitrites: 2.0

What Do I Do Now? :-(


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Your good! Those are fine levels ^^ The trick is, if the NitrItes are above 20, do a water change ;D (or is it NitrAtes... well, either one above 20 is bad) and do a water change if theres any ammonia too of course. xD


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

bettafish15 said:


> Your good! Those are fine levels ^^ The trick is, if the NitrItes are above 20, do a water change ;D (or is it NitrAtes... well, either one above 20 is bad) and do a water change if theres any ammonia too of course. xD


Uh... PH of 8 is fine????? 

Uh... and the Nitrites where 2.0 when the scale on the test only goes up to 5.0
....


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> Uh... PH of 8 is fine?????
> 
> Uh... and the Nitrites where 2.0 when the scale on the test only goes up to 5.0
> ....


Yeah, PH of 8 is fine, fish acclimate to the PH, so it never needs to be altered unless its like 9 or something. I guess 2.0 might mean 20ppm... I've never had the kit >.< So hopefully someone who does will chime in on that...


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

bettafish15 said:


> Yeah, PH of 8 is fine, fish acclimate to the PH, so it never needs to be altered unless its like 9 or something. I guess 2.0 might mean 20ppm... I've never had the kit >.< So hopefully someone who does will chime in on that...


Yeah thats it... it was 2.0ppm or something but... it was like the second to bottom reading... which is one of the highest so........ can't be good. 

DANG YOU NITRITES! I HATE YOU! YOU TAINT MY PERFECT WATER! *Flails* 

*Ponders* Could the shells be raising the PH? *Harumphs* Not that I'll take them out... since beside the cave, vine, and... well I dunno he seems to love everything in the tank XD he gets weird even if I just take the Anacharis out to trim out more dead parts. (HE likes to hide under it, it's so CUTE).

BTW...

PETSMART I ... I ... I ... was SO close to getting another BETTA *Blushes* 

There... he... he was just stunning... *Sparkly Eyes* Only word to describe him was 'ELEGANCE'. He was a VERY deep blue CT where his fins were a silver that faded into almost neon green. I think he had blue eyes too but he was in that blue water. While all the other bettas seemed so... sad he was the only one still being hyper and interested in me when I moved my finger around. I really wanted him but I just couldn't! 
I hope he finds a good home he was so cute.

*Edit* I was pondering my weird James Bond Villain names I'm going to give my fish and I thought of that cute Betta I was looking at at PetSmart and I ended up thinking of the Perfect name... now I feel bad D: I would have named him 'LARGO'


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

Seashells could indeed raise PH. But at the rate you have been doing water changes I dont think its the shells lol. My tap water is so hard you can lick it... a PH of 8 is just fine.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

No! That's not right. Nitrates can be 20ppm or under. Nitrite should be 0 but with you cycling, you don't want to stall the process. I would start daily 50% water changes. 2 is very high.

And yes, shells can raise ph. But if he's used to it, I wouldn't worry about it. Kilo's tank is 8.2 and he's just fine and dandy. Just keep an eye on it and if it's raising more, get them out.

You can check any new shells by letting them sit in a container in water and checking the ph before and after they've sat. But I've never used shells. I'm only repeating what I've read.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> No! That's not right. Nitrates can be 20ppm or under. Nitrite should be 0 but with you cycling, you don't want to stall the process. I would start daily 50% water changes. 2 is very high.
> 
> And yes, shells can raise ph. But if he's used to it, I wouldn't worry about it. Kilo's tank is 8.2 and he's just fine and dandy. Just keep an eye on it and if it's raising more, get them out.
> 
> You can check any new shells by letting them sit in a container in water and checking the ph before and after they've sat. But I've never used shells. I'm only repeating what I've read.


Does this mean I should be doing a water change now ooohh... *Groans* 
I got the Testing Kit what more do you want! My Soul? *Reveals Jar with Hideous Shadowy thing in it that hisses at you* Ok maybe you don't want that... >,>


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> Does this mean I should be doing a water change now ooohh... *Groans*
> I got the Testing Kit *what more do you want! My Soul? *Reveals Jar with Hideous Shadowy thing in it that hisses at you** Ok maybe you don't want that... >,>


You're funny  Oh, and if you dont want it, I'll take that soul off your hands :twisted: *gets ready to do the Dark Arts*


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

*Gives you jar only to notice label on the bottom* 

Hmm? Oh wait thats my friend Kat's soul... 

*Snatches Back* 

Here's mine...

*Gives you jar with nothing in it*

Wait... Oh right... I already gave my soul to my other friend Caryn... 

I did the water changes...

Read my newest post in 'TOP FIN ASSORTED PLANT BULBS...' in the Containers and Accessories Section to learn of my NEWEST HORROR.... *Passes Out*


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

*Shoves smelling salts up your nose*
You're one dramatic person, huh?


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> *Shoves smelling salts up your nose*
> You're one dramatic person, huh?


Wha?

*Comes out of it* 

No... just... ok yeah kind of...


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

haha


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh wow...

I read an entire research study about the affects of Nitrate and Nitrite in your tank water... 

The stuff I learned was quite shocking. About that it pretty much suffocates the fish slowly over time. 

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/AdverseAffectofNitrateontheAquarium.htm


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## dr2b (May 31, 2009)

DormDrax said:


> Oh wow...
> 
> I read an entire research study about the affects of Nitrate and Nitrite in your tank water...
> 
> ...





dr2b said:


> Nitrite poisoning info from another website:
> What is it?
> Nitrite is toxic to fish, and can cause death when in high levels in an aquarium. See "new tank syndrome" for information on how nitrite is produced, and how to eliminate it.
> The danger often comes when fish get weak as a result of being stressed from the nitrite. They are more susceptible to parasites, bacteria and other diseases.
> ...





vaygirl said:


> Well, fish excrete ammonia through their gills every day and their poo produces ammonia. This is the reason for cycling. Ammonia gets turned into poisonous nitrite but that nitrite is changed into much less poisonous nitrate. Your ideal reading should be 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and less then 20ppm of nitrate.
> 
> Drax is at a disadvantage already, being that he has a bad eye. His eye is going to be prone to infection as it is. If he's swimming around in nitrite for a week, and you aren't able to monitor the levels for him, it's going to feel very uncomfortable to him. Understand in the end, your bettas health is all I _really_ care about.
> 
> Your plants are nice.


This is pretty much what we've all told you from the very start.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes I am aware of that. 

This was just to validate both of you. 

Plus I'm very skeptical normally...


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Why is everything out to get poor Drax?

Edit: How is his eye by the way?


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> Edit: How is his eye by the way?


It looks like it got worse! DormDrax is a slacker betta owner!!


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Well, That's not nice.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

scootshoot said:


> It looks like it got worse! DormDrax is a slacker betta owner!!


*Doing the Ammonia Test... when reading this* 

...

*Splashes Test Tube on you* 

>,>

On look 0 Ammonia again.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

haha

*dodges water and pulls out hose and turns it on you*


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

In my younger days I killed many fish through neglect, lack of understanding and very poor tank maintenance. I don't even like to think about it. Every time I try to help someone learn how to care for their fish and their tank I feel like I'm helping to make up for that. I'd never lie to ya about stuff.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh don't feel bad! 
Least I went out and learned even more about it. 

........ wait a minute where's the other bulb? *Looking around tank* 

Oh... it must have dislodged as well and went inside his cave >,> UGH...

*Pulls out MEMO recorder* "Note to self... when it comes to bulbs... *Pauses* Stick to Tulips..."


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Those bulb things drove me up a freakin' wall! I was FOREVER having to re-bury them. Next time I'm going to let them roll around like tumbleweeds and settle where they will. :/


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

haha

Yeah until the next OCD attack comes.


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Thats what I did haha... but one kept floating and finally in the middle of the night sank... and wedged into Drax's cave/house he doesn't like that one bit XD

Also stress stripes would you say they would be a sorta semi pale line going along them? Only saw it on one side... then again yesterday I was being really clumsy with water changes.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

yeah I think that's what they look like.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

<------ is not my fish.  Just an image I found.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

Nice fish!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Fishman12:

Scootshoot is teasing DormDrax, I think...

Certainly nice to see that Drax's owner is willing to learn and try new things for the good of his fishy!

Cheryl


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

vaygirl said:


> In my younger days I killed many fish through neglect, lack of understanding and very poor tank maintenance. I don't even like to think about it. Every time I try to help someone learn how to care for their fish and their tank I feel like I'm helping to make up for that. I'd never lie to ya about stuff.


Indeed, the internet definitely helps to educate fishkeepers. Internet went global when, early to mid 90's? Still relatively new platform. Until then there was really nothing to go by aside from books to purchase at the store or local library. You needed information at 1am you were out of luck. Nothing convenient to use as a source until the internet went global.....

Thank goodness for the web!


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> *Doing the Ammonia Test... when reading this*
> 
> *Splashes Test Tube on you*
> .


Hmm, If I get popeye in the morning I know who to blame! :lol:


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

btw by accident found out what Drax has been doing in that cave. 

When finishing siphoning another Gallon back into the tank I blew some air through the hose to push the water in... but no bubbles came up *Failed to notice that the hose had gone into the cave* So I blew more... and the cave turned over and aside from the 3 large bubbles that blubbed out... like a billion tiny betta bubble nest bubbles floated up. 

So thats what he's been doing... is building an underwater bubblenest haha


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> btw by accident found out what Drax has been doing in that cave.
> 
> When finishing siphoning another Gallon back into the tank I blew some air through the hose to push the water in... but no bubbles came up *Failed to notice that the hose had gone into the cave* So I blew more... and the cave turned over and aside from the 3 large bubbles that blubbed out... like a billion tiny betta bubble nest bubbles floated up.
> 
> So thats what he's been doing... is building an underwater bubblenest haha


Hah thats cool. Too bad that shell was not see thru....


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

So he wasnt planning to kill your demise after all! XD


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

bettafish15 said:


> So he wasnt planning to kill your demise after all! XD


No he still was, or is... I tested the gas inside each bubble, it's a rare type of Nerve Gas, if he had 30% more bubbles it would have been enough to gas the house! XD (Totally joking)


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

I know a gas that gets on everybody's nerves
everybody's nerves
everybody's nerves
I know a gas that gets on everybody's nerves
And that's what Drax blows!

(repeat endlessly)

Cheryl


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## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> No he still was, or is... I tested the gas inside each bubble, it's a rare type of Nerve Gas, if he had 30% more bubbles it would have been enough to gas the house! XD (Totally joking)


Aw man, I totally derped my post XD I need to remember to check my posts after posting them... Haha!


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## Synthisis (Jun 4, 2009)

DormDrax said:


> *Gives you jar only to notice label on the bottom*
> 
> Hmm? Oh wait thats my friend Kat's soul...
> 
> ...


Do you seriously talk like this in real life...?


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## LeroyTheBetta (Dec 18, 2010)

DormDrax said:


> No he still was, or is... I tested the gas inside each bubble, it's a rare type of Nerve Gas, if he had 30% more bubbles it would have been enough to gas the house! XD (Totally joking)


Phew! Was scared for you for a second...... glad you said you were joking!

And yes, the internet is a great place to learn, especially these forums. I am new to keeping fish, and if I keep with it, in about 5 years I'll look back at what I'm currently doing and I'll probably think, "how could I have been so dumb?" Just like what happened with owning dogs. Got my first dog in 1995. Now, I'm really into training methods, dog sports, I trial my dogs, and know lots about their proper care, medical conditions, nutrition, etc. I look back at how I thought and did stuff in '95 and am shocked at myself sometimes! :shock: 

I just want to thank EVERYONE who participates in these forums, both experienced and new members. The new ones ask many questions I also have, and the experienced ones give great advice!:thankyou:


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

LeroyTheBetta said:


> I just want to thank EVERYONE who participates in these forums, both experienced and new members. The new ones ask many questions I also have, and the experienced ones give great advice!:thankyou:


You're welcome. It's really nice that finally *huge sigh* someone recognizes aaaallllllll the hard work it is. 

But seriously thank you for regonizing us.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Actually, that gas thing isn't that far off the mark. Any air bubbles trapped under water in decor will eventually get very funky, so when you're doing water changes, tip that cave up and let the air out.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

That's scary...


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## DormDrax (Dec 1, 2010)

Synth...:
No I'm actually very Gentleman like in Real Life. I come from a family of Doctors and Lawyers. I'm the only artist in the family so I have to release my quirks somewhere hahaha

.... 

Hmm well today is or was (Midnight now) his fasting day. 

The plants seem to be ok... 

The Anacharis is REALLY starting to pick up speed. May have to start trimming it soon as to not block out the light hahaha. 

I checked the water... the Nitrites are still high but not enough to worry me... like 0.50 rather than the 2.0 they were. 
Perhaps I'll change the water tomorrow. 

He's so happy in that tank. It's so adorable to watch him rummage around looking at stuff. He never flares but he does always open his fins all the way when he inspects. 

Thank you all so much for helping me this far. Once this tank finally cycles I plan to calm down and help others as you've all helped me. :-D


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