# Betta fries not growing even after 2 months



## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I am kishor from India. It is my first ever post in any kind of forum. So, sorry if I did any mistake.
I have two betta pairs one is blue halfmoon and other is red crowntail. I had no problem breeding them. But the fries are just 1 to 2 cm long with no or little fins with no colour. But they are healthy they are eating and 90 percent of them are alive still after 2 months and swimming great and fast but not growing at all. I change water once a week , bare bottom 20 liter glass tank with 50 fries. I fed Hikari fish food after 3 days and free swimming then microworm and thats kind of it. But 2 days ago i started feeding moina but not sure they are eating it. I have grindal worm but they are just not big enough to eat it. Its king of stuck in the 1 or 2 week size of other breeders fry. I don't know what the problem is if anyone can help me ill be thankful. but i suspect it because that their parents are from same blood line. But I am not sure that the parents are from same bloodline. But if someone have experienced this kind of problem before please do help me. This is my first breeding experience with betta breeding or any kind of fish.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi there!

You should be doing daily/every other day water changes for fry. Once a week won't cut it unfortunately. Start off with every other day water changes at the moment and start off small and build up big so you don't hurt your fry. Start with 15-25% and when you add water back in, drip it in so the fry don't get hurt with temperature change or pH change. Do that for a week and then up to 50% water changes every other day, again, drip in new water for them. After another week, go to daily 25% water changes and again, another week later do daily 50% changes at least.

Fry give off a chemical known as the Growth Stunting Hormone, it's natural and can very seriously hurt your fish if you don't take care of it. That's where water changes come into play; water changes help get rid of the hormone or at least lessen the effects so this allows your fry to grow! Another thing you can do is have live plants growing with your fry to help combat the hormone. Do those two things and you should see a good growth spurt within a week or two.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Thank you lilnaugrim. Ill do water changes as you said.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

That is interesting, I didn't know plants would absorb the grow hormone.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Aqua Aurora said:


> That is interesting, I didn't know plants would absorb the grow hormone.


They don't absorb it as much as they dilute it more or less. There are three things that help:

Water changes (easiest)
Growing Plants (ONLY growing, if they aren't growing then they're doing nothing)
Other types of fish fry (have to be a different species of fish that is compatible and growing up with the Betta's. Works best with guppy fry).

Again, the plants and other fish have to be growing as well in order for this to work. Not everyone is great with plants which is why it's easiest to just simply do the water changes instead. Other fish, well, not everyone also has guppy fry either or other fish fry that are the same size as the Betta's and won't eat them (guppies WILL eat tiny Betta fry if they're big enough). So again, water changes is just the easiest way to go and the least stressful usually for the fish keeper depending on the water.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

how guppy fry helps growing betta?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

KishorCG said:


> how guppy fry helps growing betta?


Any other fry will help as long as they are the same size so they don't eat each other. It just helps to dilute the Growth Stunting Hormone. Again, don't go out to buy guppy fry just because, you'll need space to house the fry if they get too big and all that. I don't recommend trying that until you're more experienced with breeding and jarring and all that  Just stick with water changes for now ^_^


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

K. I have guppies so thought about trying them. Ill experiment with seperating one or two betta fry with guppy fry.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

KishorCG said:


> K. I have guppies so thought about trying them. Ill experiment with seperating one or two betta fry with guppy fry.


I don't mean just one or two, you'd have to put a whole batch of fry in with all the Betta fry to see any results technically. It's just the way it works, I'm not entirely sure why but it's what I've also experienced.

Again, don't do it if the fry are of different sizes! Don't want the betta's to be eaten! You'll also have to make sure the tank is big enough to accommodate all the fry as well, which is another reason we do water changes to ensure the water is healthy enough for the fry to live in and grow. Guppies can be bullies as well; they may try to take all the food from the Betta's so watch out for that as well.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

K. I have to see if I can grow the fries to an adult so for now i stick to water changes.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I have separated a fry and I say a significant growth in the fry.

1 I am currently feeding with grindal worms. So, maybe I fed the separated fry more or really separating it made them growth faster ?

2 Do I have to do water change for the separated fry to avoid Growth Stunting Hormone or separating is enough?

3 I have a 200 litre tank. How many fries can I put in it with water change of 50% a day ?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Separating them made them grow faster. Worms are good; they give fats which is good for growth but you need a little more than just worms. Are they big enough to take crushed pellets yet?

Yes, separated fry will still give out growth stunting hormone, just less of it; water changes are still necessary.

In 200 liters, all of them! Depends on how many fry you have though? What tank are they in right now?


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

This is my first spawn. So, I dont know about pellet size fry but is 2cm in length. I get 200 or more fries in each spawn but I can put two pairs fries or even 3. So, how many fries in a 200 litre tank? Right now they are in a plastic tank but 35 litres only. 200 litre tank is also plastic.
Also does the Growth Stunting Hormone affects the same fry that releases it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can put all the fry in the 200 liter tank as long as they are roughly the same size, if one spawn is smaller; don't do it; they'll get eaten. Plastic is okay, that doesn't bother them. Pellets can be crushed by hand if you want to do that, or flakes crumbled up as well if they're good quality. Don't use foods that have lots of fillers like corn, soybean, wheat, rice, or potatoes; carnivore fish can't process that and it can hurt them. 

Yes, a single fry in a small jar can hurt itself by releasing the hormone which is why it's important to do water changes on jarred fish as well. This goes for all fish species, not just Betta's. Some species emit more of the hormone than others depending on aggression level but they all do it still


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Can you be little more specific about the count of the fries that I can put in the 200 litre tank? Like 2 pairs fry or 3 pairs fry with all same size? Can you suggest pellets food with name. Locals here use E - larval, is it good enough?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Uh, well it also depends on your filtration. Do you have a sponge filter or anything running for them? If so, you can probably fit anywhere from 50-80 juvies. You could fit a whole 200 spawn in there if they're tiny still. Those fry will be fine when they're small but as they grow up, you'll have to jar the males which will likely be about half of that count anyway so they won't stay in that 200l forever. Does that make more sense?


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

No filtration. For a 200 litre tank only 50 - 80 fry? I can do 50% water change.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I have jars ready. I am using 200 litre for growout tank. I thought maybe I can house 200 fries with 50% water change. Correct me if I should limit the fries to 50 - 80.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Again, it depends on the size of the fry. More fry as they are smaller, and less fry as they are larger. You will need filtration though to help as they age to keep ammonia down as well. Baby fish are big producers of ammonia! Good to have a cycled tank.

You can throw in your 200 fry there for now but jar them and separate as they age.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I can place 200 fries and separate once I can find males, good enough? I have plants and Ill siphon the bottom once a week to avoid high ammonia level, is this ok or I should need filtration? I really cant have filtration anyway.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Better to siphon bottom daily, that's part of water changes. Ammonia sinks to bottom so you will poison fry if you do not do that.

Still need filtration though, sponge filter works best.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Ill siphon out daily. and ill try filter.
I even dont know how filter works i never had it


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hah it's okay. You can use Youtube to see how to put together a sponge filter with air pump and air tubing. Pretty simple, good to use.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Can you tell me what are the foods you feed right from betta fry's first day to till adult or separating it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I haven't done it in a while but usually start off with infusoria and baby brine shrimp. Transition to grindal worms and once big enough, daphnia and then start on Grow pellets like New Life Spectrum Grow, or other equivelent if you can find it. From there it's just pellets, decap baby brine shrimp, flakes occasionally, and regular normal pellet.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

K thank you so much for your information. Ill soon update fries growth with all the water changes and other things.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

In the last 2 spawns all my fries like 200 of them are dead within a week of birth. Do you have any idea? I feed Microworm and paramecium and hikari first fry food. 
Is hikari food is enough for the fries for a week after birth?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Did you do big water changes? How did you add water back in if you did do water changes? Did you just pour it or drip it.

Was this different fry than the ones we were talking about here? I don't know how many spawns you have going.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

These 2 spawns and fries are different ones. I have only one set of fries right now that we are talking about.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, you didn't answer my other question. Did you do a water change and how did you add the water back in?


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I don't change water till 10 days. Even if I do I'll drop it back.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

From how many days old can betta fry eat Microworm? Can we feed green water to the fries for 10 days.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No green-water for Betta, they are carnivores not herbivore/omnivore. They can eat microworms until they're too big for them.

You say you drop water back in, do you mean drip?


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Ya sorry I'll drip it. I asked when can a betta fry start eating Microworm? Right after free swimming? Or 1 week old?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry, thought it said "stop eating microworm" before.

I think it's about 2 weeks old, depends on size really.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

Really the fries can eat Microworm at 2 weeks of age. ? I transferred my fries I mentioned for this thread that they are not growing to a big 200 litre tank. One night after they all just swimming upside down and lie on their sides. I think it is called swim bladder issues not sure. What can I do for this? I am thinking of giving up breeding bettas.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's definitely a full time job and not an easy thing to do.

So you just transfered the fry over to the bigger tank? Did you acclimate them or use their own water? Or did you just plop them into the big tank? It sounds like you've shocked them to be honest. That can lead to early deaths. Swim Bladder issues are usually if they are swimming on side or sinking but it's more like they try to swim down but can't. If yours are just on their sides then they might be dead :-/


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

They are side ways and upside down. If I go near they sense and try to move away. So entirely dead but can die. I net them to new big tank. I shocked them but how. Which of these thing shocked them. And how to breed a female with stress line while breeding?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You shocked them by putting them into different water. If you had filled tank with the water they were used to and gently net them over, that would be okay. Betta fry are extremely sensitive.

If they are actually moving then they are not dead of course.

Don't breed female with stress lines, only female with breeding lines. Have you read on how to properly condition them? It sounds like you really don't know what you're doing? There are articles here in the breeding section, please read them before going further.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

K I know about conditioning bettas before breeding. But this female has breeding lines with a male and has stress lines with other male. I just wanted to interchange my breeding pairs. Is there anything I can about this? Also how to introduce the fries safely to new water.?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

KishorCG said:


> K I know about conditioning bettas before breeding. But this female has breeding lines with a male and has stress lines with other male. I just wanted to interchange my breeding pairs. Is there anything I can about this? Also how to introduce the fries safely to new water.?


You said the female has stress lines before. Please be clear when asking questions, it's hard for me to answer if you keep bouncing back and forth!

If male has stress lines with other male then that means nothing other than he's stressed with the other male. If he dances and wiggles to the female then that is good. If female has stress lines, don't breed. Only breed when she has breeding lines. You can use a different male for the female if you want but he has to be courting her; wiggling and dancing, not chasing to the death or biting hard.

For fries, take out their water from old tank and siphon or use a container to transfer it to new tank. When tank has a couple inches on the bottom, you can add fry with net or pipette. Siphon out rest of old water into a bucket and have that drip into the new tank over the day so the water can slowly climb up. You can add new water AFTER they are situated into the new tank and looking good. Again, drip in new water with 1-3 drips per second and let that go all day.

How is your pH and Alkalinity of the water? Do you have low or high?


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I said that a blue halfmoon female has breeding lines when introduced to a blue halfmoon male but it shows stress line when introduced to red crowntail male. Introducing each males are done separately with the same blue female.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thank you for clarifying but it wasn't what you said before.

Why do you want to breed CT to HM? That's going to get you a boat load of messy finnage.

But getting rid of the stress stripes is part of Conditioning. A two week process where you feed the pair two or three meals a day of high fat and protein foods like worms and good quality pellets. You flare them about 5 minutes a day and increase a minute or so daily to up to half an hour at the two week period. By this point, they should be very receptive to each other. If they aren't, then they won't be a good pair and you shouldn't breed them. You may end up with dead parents if you try, it's been known to happen.


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## KishorCG (Feb 16, 2016)

I just try to breed them to look how the fries of this pair grow and to compare with the current fries I have.


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