# The Double Spawn Log



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm getting antsy so I figured I'd go ahead and start my spawn log. :-D I have cultures for Microworms, Vinegar Eels, Walter Worms, and Banana Worms on the way. They should be here either tomorrow or Friday I think. From the instructions the seller gave me it should take 2-3 days for the cultures to get going and after a week they should be doing really well. So I expect to start spawning on the 30th. That gives a little over a week for my cultures to really get going. I also have brine shrimp eggs and I'm doing a practice run with those this weekend (the big fish are going to get a real treat!)

Here are my breeders. I'm doing two spawns at once (hence the "double spawn").

Sid Vicious x Nancy.. Multicolor HM pair (both won at the GBBA show auction)
Male:








Female:








Its hard to tell from her pictures but Nancy does have red in her, mostly at the base of her fins. Her color is more purplish than blue.

For this spawn I'm hoping to get at least one male close to the father's coloring. I'm also hoping to get a good number of fish with his excellent fins. I'm hoping the mother can offset his shovel headedness. I'm expecting lots of reds, blues, washes, etc.

Rio x Ada Marble HMxSD pair (Male from GBBA auction, female from Zenandra )
Male:








He has since marbled and is now mostly blue with a black head.

Female:









For this spawn all I'm really hoping for is marbles. This is a more "see what I'll get" spawn. I would like to start a marble line but I'm not sure if this is the pair I want to use or not.


My set up:

I'll be using two 10 gallons. Halfway filled with water and 50w heaters (if needed). I'll also have lots of java moss and a little hornwort in there, if I can get to the LFS to get more plants I may add more. I'm adding some MTS and my mystery snails to the tank to help create infusoria. I'll also be putting in a coffee mug or the like to act as a cave. The females will be going into gallon pickle jars to be set in the spawning tank.

I'll be using IAL to tint the water (I hope) and leaving a leaf in there for the male to use. In addition to that I'll put a styrofoam cup and a plastic lid to give the male choices for his nest.

After the spawning the female will go back to her respective tank (to heal before going in my sorority). Males will stay with the fry until they are free swimming (unless he starts eating all the babies). First foods will be infusoria from the plants/snails, followed by microworms and vinegar eels, then bbs, walter worms and banana worms as they become suitable. 

Once I take the male out I'll be covering the tanks with saran wrap (tip from OFL ;-)) to keep the air in the tank really humid. 50% daily water changes will be done. I'll slowly raise the water level over time until the tank is full.

After the fry are big enough they'll be moved to growout tanks. I have a 29 gallon and a 55 gallon to use as growouts (so my fry don't get mixed up). Each tank will have a DIY sponge filter (that I'll cycle with media from my established tanks) hooked up to a gang valve so I can adjust water flow.

My pseudo fish room is on my Mother's sun porch (it was her idea, Sid Vicious is her fish). There's not really airconditioning out there so it stays a toasty 78-82* out there. I may not need heaters for the tanks, I'm still deciding what temperatures I want my spawning/growout tanks to be. I'll get pictures of my pseudo fish room once everything is set up.

I've been conditioning my breeders for the past two weeks with frozen foods (but still also using pellets). For the next week or so I'm going to feed them solely frozen foods 2-3 times a day. If my cultures reproduce fast enough I may also supplement their diet with live foods.

I put Sid and Nancy next to each other today during water changes and she barred up immediately and began flaring at him, and he, her. :-D I have not tested out Rio and Ada yet.

I'll update this thread as I go along with LOTS of pictures.


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

Looks good!
Beautiful fish! I can't wait to see what turns out with the Rio Ada pair.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Everything sounds great!! Good luck and keep us posted.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I think these are the most compatible pairs in terms of "responsible" breeding. Nancy, a royal blue, with Sid (to my experience) would mainly produce blue body with red fins. Usually female genes are dominant .... so who knows you might get royal blue as well. But you are unlikely to get any solid reds.
And as for Rio and Ada, you should get a dominant marble (pale/fleshy) color.

Breeding logs are useful. You will know the genetics within the offspring. I can't wait to see the results. GOOD LUCK.


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## newfishmom (Mar 26, 2010)

This is so exciting! I can't wait to see what you get.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks guys 

Indjo... Nancy is actually a multi (although she has more blue). The flash washes her colors out but she definitely has reds and blues in her fins. Sid is red based.

Update: I got my cultures today!!! All of them arrived. I have enough vinegar eels to spawn immediately!! So look for me to be setting up my tank around Wednesday or Thursday next week!!


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

That's great!
Looking forward for more updates.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Well it turns out I have enough VE that I can spawn immediately so tomorrow I am setting up one of my spawning tanks. I'll probably put Sid and Nancy in there on Sunday morning (Nancy in the pickle jar). Tuesday evening if all looks good I'll release Nancy.

My other 10 gallon is one I got for $5 because it had a crack in it, I've glued it but its still leaking. I re-glued it again today with A LOT of glue. I'm going to try filling it again on Sunday and if it doesn't leak I'll set it up as well with Rio and Ada.

Tomorrow I'm setting up my brine shrimp hatchery and giving it a go. I'm not sure if the air pump I got is going to work or not because its extremely powerful (I got it free with the $5 cracked tank). I'm going to try it out and get a gang valve for it.

I also decided that I'm going to try using bubble wrap as one of the nesting sites. I read that some males think the bubble wrap is an old nest and begin to build their nest under it.

If all goes well I should have babies by the end of next week.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I set up one of the spawning tanks last night. I have a few things to add but I should be putting Sid and Nancy in there this evening. I decided to go with bubble wrap for the nesting site. I put two pieces (about 2x3in) in the spawning tank and took another piece and set it in Sid's tank to see what he would do with it. This morning there was a big fat nest under it :-D I'm taking that as a good sign.

I checked my cultures yesterday. I have PLENTY of VE and my other cultures are doing great as well.

All that's left to do is add a few more plants to Sid and Nancy's tank and set up Rio and Ada's tank and add the fish tonight.

I'll add pictures this evening!


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

i hope you get some marbles love marbles


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I put Sid and Nancy in their tank. Sid is already working on his bubble nest!!

Pictures..









































































I'm about to go set up Rio and Ada's tank so I'll have more pictures soon. I'll probably be releasing Nancy tomorrow night!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Looks like everything is going great!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

good luck looks great


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I decided to go ahead and release Nancy tonight. Sid's nest is HUGE. I put her in about an hour ago and nothing much has happened. Sid works on his nest then goes and looks for Nancy. He chases her around a little then goes back to the nest. Every once in a while Nancy checks out the nest but then runs away. 

There has been no nipping at all, just flaring and chasing. I'm hoping they spawn while I'm up. I really want to see it.

I set up Rio's tank and put Ada in. They've been flirting but so far Rio hasn't started making a bubblenest. I guess he's a slow starter.

I have a few more pictures but I don't feel like uploading them right now.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Good luck!


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

1fish2fish said:


> I decided to go ahead and release Nancy tonight. Sid's nest is HUGE. I put her in about an hour ago and nothing much has happened. Sid works on his nest then goes and looks for Nancy. He chases her around a little then goes back to the nest. Every once in a while Nancy checks out the nest but then runs away.


Wow! That's a great sign!! i've spawned mine before, but the male ate his eggs. So I can only help you until they spawn, after that, someone else can take over... LOL Seeing bettas spawn is SO amazing.... 

Don't worry about Rio not making a nest. He might not even start it 'til morning.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm going to be watching him like a hawk (unless I'm asleep). If I see him start eating eggs (more than normal) I'm going to remove him.

I'm really excited. I'll probably wake up during the night to check on them LOL


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

its like christmas eve waiting for santa


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

So far no change. Sid's tail is a little tattered from chasing Nancy but doesn't seem to be nipped. I'm not sure if Nancy is just scared or if Sid is actually chasing her from the nest.

Rio has blown a few bubbles but not enough that I feel that I should release Ada. Its slightly harder to judge when to release her because she doesn't show breeding stripes. I'll probably release her tomorrow.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Your setup looks great. Maybe it will happen tonight!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Your breeders look great!

Give Nancy time. From the pictures I'm sure they're ready to spawn. Some females take a longer time for her eggs to be ready. So just be patient.

About Rio and Ada, don't rely on the bubble nest. You have seen the way Sid and Nancy swims. If Rio and Ada is swimming the same way, then they are ready to spawn. If not, then separate and isolate them. 
Lets assume that they're ready. The question is, when to release the female. Less vicious males, like Sid, wouldn't harm the female. But some males will literally beat the life out of females. So what's Rio like? To be safe, give Ada at least 3 days in the jar.

If I haven't misinterpreted, do your bettas spawn at night? I have never had a betta spawn at night. I never use lights, so they become inactive after dark. My breeders begin to spawn between 7 - 10 Am and finish ..... when they're done.

I'm looking forward to pictures of the results. Good luck.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Nothing happened last night. I watched Nancy this morning, she'd go under the nest but Sid flares and chases her away. Sometimes he just flares, other times he just gives chase but never nips. Nancy seems to be getting braver and is hiding for shorter amounts of time before going back under the nest. I checked the nest just in case but as far as I can tell there are no eggs in it and Nancy is still fat and barred up.

I decided to release Ada today. After I released her Rio chased her a little but then went back to working on his nest more vigorously. Ada is much less timid than Nancy and isn't chased away so easily.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Sid and Nancy spawned!!!!! It was awesome! I couldn't picture a more perfect first spawn. No nipping at all. Nancy is in perfect condition! I'm not sure how many eggs I have. I had to go pick up my brother from summer school right in the middle 

When I got back Nancy was hiding in the java moss and Sid was chasing her away so I went ahead and removed her. I'm giving her a week in a small tank with aquarium salt and continuing to feed her frozen foods and next week I'm going to set up my sorority.

So far nothing has happened between Rio and Ada. He's continued his bubblenest but its still not very big (when compared with Sid). Ada is swimming around. There doesn't seem to be any damage on either of them.

I can't wait to see babies!!!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

mmkay... I think I figured out Rio and Ada's problem. Its too cold! I think the heater might be defective. I put in in yesterday and the light came on and all but when I checked the temp just now (after I finally realized I should probably check the temp.. duh!) and the temp was 77*F.. way too cold. I jacked the knob up as high as it will go and if it doesn't start heating up I'm going and putting out $30 for a stealth instead of the topfin heater. I've never had a problem with the topfins before.

I'm uploading pictures now. I was so excited about Sid and Nancy actually spawning that I forgot to take pictures. A part of me was doubtful that I could successfully spawn them.


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

Congratulations!
Can't wait for pics.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Congrats can't wait for pics


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

pics pics pics


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Here are some pictures. :-D





































If you look REALLY close you can see some of the eggs in the nest.









This is Rio and Ada's set up..













































Rio's wittle nestie.. I'm hoping once he warms up he'll get to work


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## beat2020 (Dec 31, 2009)

Nice pics!
So I see Rio has been marbling again haha


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Haha.. yeah, he's continued to turn completely blue. Without flash he still has a little white on his fins. His head is black.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Great pics!!! Lots of little eggies there!! I'm Soooo on the list for a marble or two if you can get them to spawn!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Definitely. I think I may have to get a new heater so that's going to put me back a little. I'm not going to separate them yet though. If they don't spawn in a few days then I'll separate and re-condition.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Great pics!


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

yeah great pics


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## nono (Jun 18, 2010)

hope it goes well


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I think Rio and Ada have spawned. I believe I see eggs in the nest. Rio is still chasing Ada away. I'm going to remove Ada tonight. If I don't see any babies in a few days I'm going to recondition them and try again.


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

good luck


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Good luck +5,000


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

YAY! Congats. I love looking at posts like this it is so exciting. Good luck.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thank MS.

Well it is definite. Rio and Ada did spawn (little buggers waited till I left.. argh!). There are quite a few little eggs in the nest. I removed Ada back to her tank.

By tomorrow or thursday I should have wrigglers and this weekend/early next week I should have free swimmers.


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## CodeRed (Jun 11, 2009)

Woohoo! Sign me up for a little Marble if you've got enough  Rio's an amazing marble...r xD Congrats! Hope everything goes great! Just don't forget to keep updating... it's one of the most exciting things on this site, to see them grow up


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## xswornxoffxjello (Mar 18, 2010)

Yay! So exciting. I'm glad that things have been going well so far. Good luck with the rest!! And I hope there's room for me on that list of yours.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

Save me some girls for my sorority!


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

i would consider a marble too


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Sid's clutch has hatched!! I see little tails hanging down, and a lot of them!


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

congrats pics


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

I would like a little male marble if you can save me one for 3 or 2 months.=)


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

My fish won't be ready to go until September at the earliest. The downside to that is shipping will be a little higher because I have to buy heat packs. Prices of the fish will depend on the quality.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Oh....I still want one in a couple of month Im getting a 10 gallon.


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

alien you had 3 betta's die already dont let another one die because you want another one


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

How exciting! I can't wait to see the colors you get from Rio and Ada! I love those two.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Yay! Little tails!


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

beta novice said:


> alien you had 3 betta's die already dont let another one die because you want another one


I know it seems like they had diseases the way they where acting.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

YAAAY for wigglers!!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

They are so cute! I wish I could watch them all day! Just by eyeing them I can say there is well over a hundred of them, we'll see how many make it.


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Wow!! That's great!! You'll probably get about 30-40... Too bad a lot die in the first few weeks.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

My goal is to have about 30 per spawn or ~60 total. I'm hoping I get a nice mix of males and females but its possible I'll have more of one or the other. 

I'm very excited about these fry. They seem very strong. I've not seen one fall out of the nest that didn't swim hisself back up. Sid is not really having to do anything. I did accidentally knock the tank and a bunch fell down  I'm hoping none died. A lot of them swam back up into the nest but others are just laying on the bottom (Bettysplendens says this is ok.. I hope she's right).


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Congrats Grandma!! LOL You must be so happy! 

But Hey, I'm on the lookout for nice females... so I might just have to grab a few from you once they are old enough. I don't mind culls...


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

LOL.. Thats what I told my mom this morning when I saw they'd hatched. I said "I'm a grandma!".

I'll definitely let you know when they're ready. It seems so far away but I bet its going to go fast.


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

i bet so too good luck


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

No Rio babies so far. I think its a little too cold and that's why its taking so long. The outlet I have the heater plugged in is faulty or something. I want to move the tank but I don't want to risk disturbing the nest. Its still about 78* in the tank with out the heater. I'm going to try using an extension cord but I don't know if it will work or not.


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## Felessan (Jun 24, 2010)

Ooooo perty


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Rio's eggs hatched. There are no where near as many as Sid's. Later tonight I'm going to get a flash light and have a really good look. If there aren't that many I'm going to re-condition Rio and Ada and spawn them again and just mix the fry.


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

umm intersting good luck pics


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

YAY! Congrats. I can't wait until I am ready to start breeding bettas.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Congratz!Pics?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

They're too small to get pics of right now. My camera isn't powerful enough.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

Congrats!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks 

Well Sid's fry are free swimming. I took Sid out and fed the fry VE. I'm not sure how much to feed them. I sucked up one turkey baster full of VE and rinsed them through a coffee filter and put them in the tank. I don't know if that is enough or not.


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

I cant wait for when the babies grow up! I want some! Culls are a-ok with me btw! (i fall in love with every betta i lay eyes on trust me!)


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I wish I could take a couple but I've got my hands full right now. If anything changes in a few months then maybe.


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## beta novice (May 9, 2010)

yeah when there ready pics


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## MangoTart (Jun 7, 2010)

Congrats! ^^ Your fish are really amazing so I'm excited to see the end results.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thank you  I am as well. I can't wait until the babies start to color up.. but that won't be for a month or more unfortunately.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Update:

Well both spawns are now free swimming. Sid's spawn is doing amazingly well IMO. Rio's spawn seems very small to me which is kind of dissapointing. I may try spawning Zodiac and Drucilla when I get them to make up for the small spawn, or I might recondition Rio and Ada again. The babies are still too small to get pictures of, my camera can't focus on them.

Both males aren't doing so well  Sid seemed fine when I removed him but today when I fed him I saw that he had developed Ich. I think it may be because it rained last night and brought the temperature of my fish room down significantly. I just took Rio out yesterday and he is looking very pale and sad


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It seems like I read once that males can get depressed right after spawning. Or am I wrong? lol


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## MangoTart (Jun 7, 2010)

Oh noes D: I hope they get better soon


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## doggyhog (Apr 30, 2009)

Too bad!! If they aren't already, I'd put them in view of some females. One of my males gets extremely pale and depressed if he can't see a female. He's in love with them. LOL


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, upon looking at the 100 (literally) pictures I snapped of the baby fish I did find a couple that you can see a little bit.

These are from when they are hanging tail down in the nest.


















These are the babies free swimming. I put some arrows to point them out in case you can't see them.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Awww there so cute!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Cool! Is that what all that hairy looking stuff is? lol


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Wow, there are so many little tails and fishies!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

In the nest? Yeah.. all the stuff that looks like hair are tiny betta tails. There are definitely quite a few which I'm really happy about.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm happy for you!


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## MangoTart (Jun 7, 2010)

How cuute *_*


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

= DI need one!!!!!= D


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Oh my gosh. So many little fishy tails and behinds! Congrats Jackie!


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

Are there any updates?


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Pics?


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## mysquishy (Mar 12, 2010)

Wow, cool pics.  I love these types of threads they are so fun to watch.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Nothing much to tell. I did the first water change and lost a couple of the fry. They're getting bigger and this weekend I'm starting them on BBS.


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

What did you feed them first?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Vinegar Eels. Now I'm doing a mixture of VE and Microworms and this weekend or maybe early next week I'm going to start BBS in addition to VE and MR.


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## Fermin (Apr 18, 2010)

Wow you have an entire betta army! lol

Congrats and thanks for letting us share your experience.


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## TheJadeBetta (Mar 31, 2010)

Where did you get the VE and Microworms from?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I ordered the Microworms from kwaquatics on aquabid (she's great to work with!). The VE I got from a user on my other forum. She gave me a great deal on them and then gave me extra!


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't wait to see pics when they get bigger.


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## Alienbetta1 (May 9, 2010)

Congratz!pics?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Well I think I only have about 10 or so fry left of each spawn. Its a little disappointing but I expected not to have very many since this is my first time breeding. I think I'm going to spawn Sid and Nancy again and possibly Zodiac and Drucilla once they arrive.

Since I have so few fry and I know that most of my buyers are going to be people off this forum and (surprisingly) my dog forum I'm thinking of mixing the fry. This will mean that I won't be able to tell who is from whom but most of the people who want fry are looking for pets or are going for a certain color, etc.

Is this a really stupid idea? Doing water changes and upkeep on two tanks for only 20+/- fry is a pain I really think mixing them would be the best option.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I am sure you already plan to do this...so just for general information for others......

QT new breeders for at least 4 weeks, 6 weeks even better- to make sure they are not carrying any parasites/pathogens to prevent issues with fry.
Sometimes these nasty parasite will be hidden in the gills and/or the breeder can be asymptomatic or a carrier and the stress can trigger an outbreak that is passed to the fry.

I don't advocate use of chemical or medication, however, sometimes when you are wanting to spawn soon after you get new breeders and don't have time for a 4-6 week QT, use of anti-parasite product may be a thought/idea to prevent issues with the fry that can be more delicate. 
And if I had to do this, I would use a glass container that I would later throw away and use copper based products after much research to understand the risks.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. 

For all the picture hogs I managed to get a (very blurry) picture of one of the fry.


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

love the pic.

I think you should mix the fry, it doesn't make sense to go through double the necessary work. All the fry are bound to be beautiful, and I don't think many people would mind getting fry from either pair.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

That's what I think. Before when I was hoping to have 100+ fry I wanted to keep them separate in case I decided to sell them on aquabid (so I could say who the parents were). Since there are so few I'm just going to mix them tomorrow when I do the water change.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm feeling really sad today. I think I should just cull and start over. Rio's fry have ich so I can't mix the fry, two of his were dead this morning and I'm sure more will die. Sid's are just disappearing, I could only find 3 this morning.

If I cull now I can do one more spawn before summer is over. I just don't think I should continue to waste time and resources on a tiny number of fry who are quickly dwindling.

Thoughts??


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I think you've gotta do what you think. I'm sorry you're sad.  First spawns aren't always successful, as I'm sure you've read. I think you did the best job. It just didn't work out this time. But they sound like they're not that healthy to begin with. Do what you've gotta do and for sure, try again!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah, on top of that Bella got away from me this morning. She ran (which shes not supposed to do) up the stairs (which she's not supposed to do) across the yard dragging herself (which she's not supposed to do) chasing the cat (which she's not supposed to do). I was on the verge of tears when I finally got her back. I can't afford for her to get hurt again. She's in crate jail for the rest of the night.

I think I'm going to give the fry a chance. I'm getting mason jars tonight and I'm going to jar the remaining fry from Sid and I'm going to try treating Rio's with ich medication. If it doesn't work at least I can say I tried.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Oh no! Bad Bella! I think crate jail is the way to go. They don't know. The big doofuses. I can only imagine trying to keep Molly from doing all of the above. It wouldn't be possible *unless* she was jailed. When Bella's all better, she'll forget all about her imprisonment. 

Good luck with the lil fry that are left. They should be strong lil guys if they make it.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't give up...it will get better and easier as you go...good idea with the mason jars.

Sounds like Bella is feeling better.....


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## mollyyymo (May 21, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I think I'm going to give the fry a chance. I'm getting mason jars tonight and I'm going to jar the remaining fry from Sid and I'm going to try treating Rio's with ich medication. If it doesn't work at least I can say I tried.


Good for you, giving them a chance. Whether or not they turn out to be the most (conventionally) beautiful fish on earth, they're still living things and deserve a shot at life. If they're suffering too much, do the humane thing, but please, do what you can for them.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Bella doesn't think anything is wrong with her. I have to admit she was moving pretty well which is a good sign but it scared the crap out of me.

I'm not sure that treating the fry for ich is the most humane thing. Its going to be really rough on them. If they make it out ok then it is going to be worth it. I just saw that large one from Rio's tank, I think he's going to be a male.. maybe I'm just hoping. He's the biggest of all the fry and has gold eyes. He's the reason I changed my mind because he's strong and he deserves a chance to prove it.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

Hope the lost fry make nice homes in heaven.. and I hope the rest live!


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## mollyyymo (May 21, 2010)

I'm sure you'll do what's right. Wishing you the best of luck! Even if the fry grow up not so pretty, I would love to adopt one as a house pet.
But as people have said, if this doesn't work out, don't be discouraged, keep trying!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

With the genetics I've chosen all the fry should be gorgeous. Fancy marbles and Reds, blues, multicolors, butterflies, etc.

It turns out I have more of Sid's fry then I thought. There are about 30 left. Tomorrow I'm going to clean out the tank really good and get all the dead fry out then put the remaining 30ish fry back in. Hopefully I won't lose any more. They're very small when compared to my other spawn but the snail activity in that tank is heavy, telling me I'm probably feeding too much.

I'm going to switch over to BBS because I think it will allow me to feed less. The microworms are very hard to see so I think I'm putting more in than I should.

I'm getting Quick Cure for the fry with ich. We'll see how the treatment goes. I really hope my favorite fry doesn't die. I had high hopes for him.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I'm not sure that treating the fry for ich is the most humane thing. Its going to be really rough on them. If they make it out ok then it is going to be worth it. I just saw that large one from Rio's tank, I think he's going to be a male.. maybe I'm just hoping. He's the biggest of all the fry and has gold eyes. He's the reason I changed my mind because he's strong and he deserves a chance to prove it.


Do you have ...... oak leaves???.... I'm not sure what you call them in English, we call them "Ketapang" leaves. Try treating your fry with salt and these leaves. 
Don't use too much leaves and turn the water dark brown, just use enough to make the water yellowish brown (like tea). When you do pwc just add normal water (don't add salt or leaf). When the water gets rather clear, repeat the treatment (100% wc). 
I only did it twice - on the following wc, I used normal water.

My fry also suffered ich. This treatment did not save 100% but most of them survived.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> I'm getting Quick Cure for the fry with ich. We'll see how the treatment goes. I really hope my favorite fry doesn't die. I had high hopes for him.


Oops, I didn't read this part yet.... I'm glad that you didn't loose the whole bunch.


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## xswornxoffxjello (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm sorry that it isn't going well. I really hope your fry make it.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I do have ketapang leaves but not very many. I need to order some. I'm going to try the medicine to see if it helps.

Today I'm going to try to get a count on the fry with Ich to see how many are left. A bunch of them died yesterday. Hopefully the medicine will do the trick and I won't lose too many.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm glad you found more babies. I have a TON of IAL that I'm not using. Like 50 or so? I could throw them in the mail for you.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

I would take a not so pretty one when they are grown! Now thinking, all of them might be pretty!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Vaygirl. That would be awesome! How much would you want for them?


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Pffft. Some day I'll want a baby maybe?

It's like 105 out today. I'll drop them in the mail tomorrow!


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## MangoTart (Jun 7, 2010)

Well, you've done the best you could so I really hope the remaining fry turn out ok and that all your bettas are okay. I can't wait to see what they look like when they get bigger! Best wishes~!


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

Tell me when the bettas are grown! I might buy one ;-)


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

VG.. you'll be at the top of the list!

I got the Quick Cure today. I'm going to do a water change and add it to the tank. I'm going to put Sid's fry back in the tank and just hope nobody dies. With 30+ babies (gender unknown) I don't see the point in jarring them at this point. If my numbers drop down below 15 then I'll jar them.

After two weeks the babies will hopefully be cured and I'll mix the fry.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

Cool! I hope I can get one before my birthday! Probably not because you want to give them in September. I will treat the new betta well!


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## nochoramet (Oct 2, 2009)

I would *love* to have one of your babies...both of your couples are gorgeous! I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with them so far, I really hope it turns around for you


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'd love to have a couple of babies, too but if my circumstances were different...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IME, fry is vulnerable to .... most things. I wouldn't use the container in which they got ich. If you have another container/tank move them until they are well (don't use the water too). I'm guessing their sizes should be around 0.5 cm or so, thus you don't need a big tank. 

Then clean the original tank with what ever chemicals or medication you usually use (I don't like exposing my fry to chemicals), and leave it dry for a few days before re-using it. When you're pretty sure everything is safe, you can put the fry back in.

I would not mix a "once sick" fry with a healthy bunch. The healthy bunch may get sick because you can never really tell whether they are really cured and free of any bacteria or parasites. I sometimes loose a second bunch by mixing.

I'm sorry I can't explain in specifics. To be honest I don't really understand illnesses, bacteria, parasites etc. But I speak from my experience.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

In both BettaTalk and Betty Splendens, it is suggested to raise the temp to 85 degrees...... I don't use heaters, I expose them to direct sunlight without realizing that ich is temp sensitive.
BettaTalk suggests adding 1 teaspoon of salt to 2.5g water. ..... that's about the amount I put into my 1.25g tank.

You should read it, if you haven't (I'm guessing that you have)
www.bettatalk.com/betta_deseases.html
www.bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=719

Hope everything goes well.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Right now the temp is at 86* but there are only about 5 fry left alive unfortunately. I'm going to continue to try to treat them and after two weeks I'm just going to jar those that are left alive (if any).


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

*Omg!!*

Only 5? So sorry... :BIGweepy:


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

That's just the marble spawn. There are still 30 or so left of the multicolor spawn.

I was hoping to do one more spawn this summer but there just isn't going to be enough time I don't think.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

35 BABIES ALL TOGETHER Okay! That is better.


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## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

Good luck to the remaining fry! :< Sorry it's been so tough on you...


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

Im so sorry! But at least you have around 35 fry! A lot of spawns at this time have 0!so your doing pretty dang good! Byr the way sign me up for a male and maybe a female!


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## NIB BETTA (Apr 21, 2010)

Since you have such a small number remaining, will you be able to power grow them?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Probably so. I've only been feeding them twice daily this past week but I'm going to try to switch back to feeding 3-4 times a day. Last week I couldn't do daily water changes because I had a sprained ankle so I had to lower the number of feedings so I could do less water changes.

They weren't growing very much on the microworms so I'm switching entirely to BBS and hopefully that will help. They won't take dry food at all.


ETA...

Today's update. I haven't lost anymore Multibabies as I'm now calling them but I only have 2 remaining marble fry. They look good so I'm confident they will survive. I know I'm keeping one of them. They have a week left in the Quick Cure and after that they'll be jarred. That puts my total at around 32. I'm doing at least one more spawn though this summer and hopefully some this winter.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

I've been creeping on this thread for some time now (bwa ha ha), but it's great to see that things are working out for you! I would love to have one but there's no way I'm going above 5 bettas right now lol... Then again I said that about 4.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Here's another update. The two remaining Marble fry are still alive and kicking so I'm hoping this means that they are going to make it. They have one more week left of treatment then I'll be jarring them.

Out of the 12 fry I jarred when I thought I had lost a bunch of Multibabies 5 are alive, 5 dead, and 2 missing (could be dead or could have hid in the Java moss that I put back in the tank). So in addition to the roughly 15 that were hiding in the big tank I have about 20-25 left.

I'm doing one more spawn hopefully. I've got my breeder's conditioning and I'll be setting up the tank around next wednesday. I'll update the Marble HM thread for that one.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm sorry things haven't worked out but I'm glad the remaining fry are doing ok.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Its a learning process. I'm doing considerably better than some people do for their first spawns at 3 weeks. Hopefully I won't loose many more babies and they will just continue to improve.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

:yourock:


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## XSprinkleFaceX (Nov 17, 2009)

Wow, this thread is so emotional lol.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

*Emotional*

:-D:lol::-?:|:-cry::shock::evil::twisted:;-):roll:
So emotional.:brow::wave::demented::greenyay: he he


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Update.. 

My two marble babies are alive and thriving. One is HUGE and the other is about the same size as the Multibabies.

I think the Multibabies are smaller than they should be. That is my fault because I didn't do as many water changes and feedings as I should have. Since all of the babies (except the ones I keep) will be going to pet homes I'm not going to really worry about them being smaller than they should be. They'll grow eventually.. just not as quickly as I had intended.

They're about the size of a 3 week old betta instead of a 4 week old betta (according to the growth chart on Bettysplendens). 

When I go back to school in a few weeks I'll be jarring 12 of the babies (the two marbles and 10 Multibabies) because my Mom is new to keeping fish and I want to try to get as many Multibabies to survive as possible since I no longer have Sid to breed.


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

Tell me when I can adopt one. I will (maybe) but my mom will see. I am in Va. Good luck!!!


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

If I take one I'm totally naming it Multi-baby!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm naming one of the males I keep after the band that the real life Sid Vicious was in.. hopefully he'll live up to his name and be a good breeder LOL


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## JKfish (Apr 8, 2010)

I know you've alread got a lot of differnt people wanting to buy your fry, but if there's still some left (gender and from which spawn doesn't matter), is it possible I could buy one from you when he or she is old enough?


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Sure. I have to admit I have a LOT of people who are looking to get bettas from this spawn so I can't guarantee anyone (except Vaygirl because I owe her ;-) ). I'm keeping 1 or 2 pairs from the Multi-spawn but whatever is left will be sold. The two marble babies that are left I'm keeping.. I'm secretly hoping they are a male/female pair.

Not to worry though.. I'm doing a spawn this weekend and another this winter. I'll always have babies looking for homes


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

I want a male from sid and nancy's spawn real bad!!!


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## frogipoi (Jul 3, 2010)

I will take one from the next spawn. Who is spawning? Check my thread Breeding bettas all you need to know. It is good!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Any updates? how are your babies got any pic? or have you already posted this and I just missed it.......lol.......so much fun watching fry grow up........and they grow up so fast too......


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

The spawns were pretty much a train wreck. I lost most of the marbles to ich and the two survivors mysteriously died the night before I was going to bring them back to school. I only had 12 multis left (sort of on purpose and sort of by "new breeder" errors) and for some reason they started dying off on me as well. I think it might have been lack of water changes but I'm not totally sure.

I was down to a miserable 3 babies in cups and came home the other day to find one of the cups had somehow got knocked over and dumped into my sorority (I've been floating the cups to keep them warm since there were so few). So now I'm down to 2 fry left.

I'm trying not to feel like a complete failure and just chalk it up to inexperience. I just got two new pairs that will be spawned in a few weeks so hopefully I will have learned from my mistakes and will have a better turn out this time around.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

1fish2fish said:


> mmkay... I think I figured out Rio and Ada's problem. Its too cold! I think the heater might be defective. I put in in yesterday and the light came on and all but when I checked the temp just now (after I finally realized I should probably check the temp.. duh!) and the temp was 77*F.. way too cold. I jacked the knob up as high as it will go and if it doesn't start heating up I'm going and putting out $30 for a stealth instead of the topfin heater. I've never had a problem with the topfins before.
> 
> I'm uploading pictures now. I was so excited about Sid and Nancy actually spawning that I forgot to take pictures. A part of me was doubtful that I could successfully spawn them.


 I had the same problem. My heter went from spawning temp 82F to 86F to 93F in a few hours. >:[


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm so sorry!!!!!!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Its not a big deal. I actually think its sort of funny in a way that I spent so much time researching breeding and genetics and spending money on great pairs but I still wound up with 2 babies.

I was so scared of doing water changes that I ended up not doing enough. This time it will be different. I'm also going to put a sponge filter in the tank which I didn't do previously.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

1fish2fish said:


> Its not a big deal. I actually think its sort of funny in a way that I spent so much time researching breeding and genetics and spending money on great pairs but I still wound up with 2 babies.
> 
> I was so scared of doing water changes that I ended up not doing enough. This time it will be different. I'm also going to put a sponge filter in the tank which I didn't do previously.


It takes time to breed them. I'm thinking that your new to this (correct me if I'm wrong) but it takes time. You'll find out what works for you, I have the best luck with 5 or 10 gallon tanks, a cave for the female, at least 5 live plants, some plastic plants, a corner filter, heater, styro cup, glass chimney etc. I also use my regular water conditioner, no salt and a second conditioner...this one contains almond leaf extract. I clean fry water often and in large quantities, starting just days after the male is out of the tank. This is what works FOR ME. Everyone is different, no one breeds exactly the same.


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## metalbetta (May 17, 2010)

Well two is better than none at all... Consider that a victory.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Thats too bad, but stuff happens even when you have lots of experience....fish keeping and breeding.....is not an exact science and no two spawns, set-up, breeders...etc....are alike...

Soon you will have more fry than you know what to do with.......


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

LOL I hope so. My new females are HUGE. My other girls were never this eggy so I'm hoping that's a good sign.

Here's one of them. I'm not sure how soon I'm going to breed her. The other female will go in the spawning tank in a week or two.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

She's very pretty!!


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