# Walmart rescue: Did I help him or hurt him?



## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

What was supposed to be a quick shopping trip with my mother earlier tonight ended up being an impromptu triple betta rescue. She rescued one, I rescued two, and one of mine has SBD bad enough I wasn't sure he'd survive the 15 minute trip home. He was having so much trouble getting his face up for air. :| When I got him in the house I really thought he was dead, but I left him alone for a few minutes and came back to see him still kicking.

His cup (ALL their cups :evil was filthy. I tested the ammonia out of curiosity and the water was insanely dark green at *8ppm*. :| The chart didn't go any higher than that. I spent the next hour or so slowly acclimating him to clean water (by dipping a little old water out, pouring a little new water in every 5-10 minutes, and temp matching) treated with 1tsp/gal Epsom salt and filled up part of a 3/4 gallon critter keeper for him, with gravel on one side piled up into a slope so he could angle himself toward the surface if he needed to. 

When I finally finished acclimating him I gently plopped him into a net and transferred him to his little QT tank above the gravel. He immediately flailed up to the top of the slope with half his head and his mouth just above the surface. He just laid there, completely motionless except for taking a gulp of air now and then. 

:-( He looked _exhausted,_ and he's so dull I'm not even sure what color he's supposed to be. I don't have any pictures yet, and I'm honestly not sure he's even still alive. When I knew he was in a position where he was able to breathe yet still covered by enough water that he wouldn't dry out or something, I covered up his tank and left him alone. I want to give him the night to regain some strength, if he's not too far gone.

Assuming he survives the night, is there anything more I can do to help him recover, other than healthy food and clean water? Warmer temps? (I'm keeping his water at about 80F currently.) _Colder_ temps? Methylene blue bath? Switch the in-tank ES to ES baths? Some magical SBD-curing voodoo, perhaps? :-( I really want this guy to pull through.

Is there anything I could have done better/differently in acclimating him or setting up his QT tank? Should I have waited to give him ES because of how weak he is? I didn't really think about it until he was already in the tank.  

Sorry for all the questions. I'm still new. I just want to know what, if anything, I did poorly this time, so I can do better if I ever find myself in this position again.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

You are doing fine, and he may pull through it's amazing what clean water can do for them. He is most likely suffering Ammonia poisoning, and depending on how strong he is he may pull through.

The thing I would say for the future, would be not to use the net, tip out as much of the water in the cup you can that the fish is still covered, then gently submerge the cup in the tank letting the tank and cup water mix gently and let him swim out on his own, however, from what you have said that may not have been a option anyway.

The other thing is to maybe get a water conditioner like prime that will turn any Ammonia Toxins to less toxic toxins although I don't know if you can use that with salt, I sure someone else will advise that.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

If it really is SBD and nothing else, its generally not deadly but it will make the fish look pathetic. 

For now, just Epsom and quite time. If he poops, is it normal looking or is it white and stringy?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

He made it through the night! I don't know that he's _better,_ but he was swimming (well, his pitiful approximation of swimming) in the deep end when I checked him this morning and seems able to get air well enough. His color may be coming out a little now; most of his body is hinting at being blue and there's a distinct red patch on one of his fins.



beautiful Betta said:


> The thing I would say for the future, would be not to use the net, tip out as much of the water in the cup you can that the fish is still covered, then gently submerge the cup in the tank letting the tank and cup water mix gently and let him swim out on his own, however, from what you have said that may not have been a option anyway.


I agree with you here, and I typically do just that with my other fish when I do water changes. :-D Mine are always more comfortable that way. I only use the net for new fish when I first put them in their new homes, since their water always seems to be disgusting when they're in those little cups. Why add it to the tank if I don't have to, right? :| It'll just make their _new_ water gross.

I already use Prime, but thanks for the suggestion! This forum is actually where I found out about it and I'm _SO_ glad I did. Turns out my tap water has ammonia in it already, so it keeps my little aquatic friends safe. 



Tikibirds said:


> If it really is SBD and nothing else, its generally not deadly but it will make the fish look pathetic.
> 
> For now, just Epsom and quite time. If he poops, is it normal looking or is it white and stringy?


Thank you! He definitely looks pathetic. If he shows no improvement today, should I up the ES dosage a little tomorrow?

I didn't notice any obvious poop, but I'll look for it. One of the other rescues has white poop but it isn't stringy at this point. Unless it's considered stringy if it hangs onto him for a while? It hadn't dropped off yet, when I saw him. It looks like normal poo -- just white. I've read that can just be a sign of stress and not necessarily parasites.

I'll be watching that one closely, though. If it becomes stringy, is that a sure sign he's having parasite issues and needs to be treated? (And would that be something likely to infect bettas in nearby cups at the store if an employee wasn't careful? I'm guessing Walmart doesn't really concern themselves with avoiding cross contamination since they don't even keep the water clean.)


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

Setangha said:


> What was supposed to be a quick shopping trip with my mother earlier tonight ended up being an impromptu triple betta rescue. She rescued one, I rescued two, and one of mine has SBD bad enough I wasn't sure he'd survive the 15 minute trip home. He was having so much trouble getting his face up for air. :| When I got him in the house I really thought he was dead, but I left him alone for a few minutes and came back to see him still kicking.
> 
> His cup (ALL their cups :evil was filthy. I tested the ammonia out of curiosity and the water was insanely dark green at *8ppm*. :| The chart didn't go any higher than that. I spent the next hour or so slowly acclimating him to clean water (by dipping a little old water out, pouring a little new water in every 5-10 minutes, and temp matching) treated with 1tsp/gal Epsom salt and filled up part of a 3/4 gallon critter keeper for him, with gravel on one side piled up into a slope so he could angle himself toward the surface if he needed to.
> 
> ...


Hi, I do rescues from Walmart too, and I think it's great you and you're mom do this. And I also do the gentle pour and ease them in the net, slowly release them in the tank. Ok, so with a few of my rescues, I unfortunately have had to give them meds for ammonia gill burn that require treatment for bacterial infection, and a couple that just needed meds for other issues. Good luck to you guys and I hope the rescues make it.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> I'll be watching that one closely, though. If it becomes stringy, is that a sure sign he's having parasite issues and needs to be treated? (And would that be something likely to infect bettas in nearby cups at the store if an employee wasn't careful? I'm guessing Walmart doesn't really concern themselves with avoiding cross contamination since they don't even keep the water clean.)


I am not 100% positive if it ALWAYS means parasites. Epsom salt will also help him rid them from his body if that is the case. I have also heard that consitpation can cause white poo but no idea if its true or not. 

I suggest not feeding him for a day or so and keep him in the epsom salt. See if he is any better in 24 hours. 

I would think, if they fish had parasites, it would of been from where ever they get them from, and not from anything at walmart. Although I suppose they could of cross contiminated equipment with something from a community tank


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Holy cow, that ammonia was off the charts! It does sound like ammonia poisoning. Good luck with him.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

That's a good sign that he is now swimming around. Frozen daphnia is great for constipation, you could try that with him first before meds for constipation/SBD he just might need to get things moving. Plus he will gobble them down most betta's love frozen foods.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

ABETTAVOICE said:


> Hi, I do rescues from Walmart too, and I think it's great you and you're mom do this. And I also do the gentle pour and ease them in the net, slowly release them in the tank. Ok, so with a few of my rescues, I unfortunately have had to give them meds for ammonia gill burn that require treatment for bacterial infection, and a couple that just needed meds for other issues. Good luck to you guys and I hope the rescues make it.


Thank you very much, and likewise! :-D I hope they make it too. I'm watching them all closely to make sure I catch any symptoms that pop up. For now only one is getting any sort of treatment, and it's just Epsom salt. I have meds on hand if they need anything stronger, but so far I think being in clean water is helping a lot.



Tikibirds said:


> I am not 100% positive if it ALWAYS means parasites. Epsom salt will also help him rid them from his body if that is the case. I have also heard that consitpation can cause white poo but no idea if its true or not.
> 
> I suggest not feeding him for a day or so and keep him in the epsom salt. See if he is any better in 24 hours.


I'll follow your advice, thank you!  I did try feeding each of them a little frozen daphnia this morning, but there were no takers. Only one of them (not the one with SBD) seemed interested, but all he did was look at it. I tried to get that one to eat a NLS pellet with the same results, so clearly they're not comfortable enough to eat yet. I'll wait a day or two before trying again.



dramaqueen said:


> Holy cow, that ammonia was off the charts! It does sound like ammonia poisoning. Good luck with him.


Yeah. :evil: I was expecting it to be high, but not THAT high. I guess the methylene blue Walmart had in their cups would affect the color of the test slightly, but wow. I took a picture and even the flash didn't brighten it up.

Thanks for the good wishes!



beautiful Betta said:


> That's a good sign that he is now swimming around. Frozen daphnia is great for constipation, you could try that with him first before meds for constipation/SBD he just might need to get things moving. Plus he will gobble them down most betta's love frozen foods.


I like the way you think. :-D But none of them are up to eating yet, it seems, and for the one with SBD I think fasting may be the way to go for at least another day or two. It will depend on how much he perks up (if he perks up). He made it through the first 24 hours, so I'm optimistic!


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

And now for updates/pics/more questions! Here are the nameless rescues, in reverse order of when we picked them out:

*Rescue #3* _(SBD, who prompted this thread)_
















:-( He looks pretty sad, doesn't he? This is mostly what he does. He finds a spot to rest and just lays there with his face/head out of the water. He does this on the gravel slope as well as on the leaves of a little plant I put in there for him. He'll swim sometimes if I uncover his tank or mess with his water. He gets these big bursts of energy and gets feisty/hysterical if I move the water too much or get too close, but he tires very easily. I wanted to do a full water change earlier since there isn't much in his container, but I ended up only doing a partial because the activity was exhausting him. 

You can see how colorless he is. :| I can't tell if all that red on his anal fin is his coloring or if it's a sign of illness. I still can't tell for sure what color he's supposed to *be*. What little color _is_ there looks more prominent than what he had just the night before, though. His swimming might be slightly better, too. It's a _tiny_ improvement, if I'm not just fooling myself. But progress is progress!

I think all I can do right now is just wait and see if the Epsom salt helps, but I'm open to further suggestions. :-? I want this little guy to bounce back so much.


*Rescue #2*
















This guy was pretty still when we found him, but he's perked up the most out of the three. Still not "perky", really, but he chooses to stay out in the open and swim around instead of hiding most of the time. He watches me when I'm in the room even though he doesn't engage with me directly.

Some questions, though:

*1.* This may be a ridiculous question, but do bettas *yawn*? That's the only way I can describe what I've seen this guy do. I've seen it twice: he'll open his mouth and slowly suck in a huge gulp of water, flush it through his gills (I guess. I can just see him flexing them out wide, lazily, like he's stretching them), then swim up for a breath of air. Can anyone explain this to me? 

*2.* Most of his fins looks pretty short to me, but they look neat and almost all have thin white/clear outlines or tips. Is this new growth? :hmm:


*Rescue #1* _(Mom's rescue)_








Behold the icky Walmart cup. :|

Does not like cameras. Looks like he's got some minor fin problems, not sure if it's rot or biting or what, since he doesn't want me to get a good look at him and I'm not familiar with crowntails. He was the most lively of the three when we found them in the store. I set him up in a new 5g tank last night with a big tree trunk decoration he could hide in and rest on. *However...*

He's now in a 1g bowl with fresh water because he seemed a little subdued today, and when I walked over to see him I discovered the (fully submerged) decoration was giving off strong paint-like fumes. :blueworry: I'm not sure what went wrong there... I really thought I'd soaked/rinsed it well enough before I put it in the tank. There was no odor last night, no chipping or running paint, no cracks that I could see... I can't find *any *visible signs of damage or degradation, but the smell is *horrid*. 

I think the fish is okay, thankfully, but obviously I don't want this to happen again. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? :| I know I'm supposed to thoroughly rinse and examine anything I intend to put in an aquarium, but is there some extra step I've missed here? I'm just beside myself right now.


Sorry for the huge post(s). :-? Everyone here has been so helpful. I really appreciate all the advice and encouragement! I'm still mostly concerned about R#3 because he's having the most trouble, but I'd love some input on the other two as well, if anyone has answers for me.


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## ABETTAVOICE (Feb 2, 2014)

I think you're doing a wonderful job, and all we can do is hope, observe, change water, and maybe give meds if we feel it is the best course of action. I have no experience with salt treatments as my rescues seemed to sick to try this-Time was not on their side enough. I used the Jungle brand fungus clear for mine and thankfully it pulled them through, one was to severe though and by the time our lfs guy told me what he was suffering from (he gave me meds free of charge), it was just to late and the infection to advanced. They are sure beautiful little guys.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Update~*

Thank you all again for your assistance. <3 All three are still going!

Two of the rescues are settling in nicely! They're both active, enjoying their daphnia and NLS pellets, their warm water and rooibos tea. No constipation, and no more white poop from my mom's rescue. :-D He still doesn't trust me but the colorful pink one is starting to warm up to my presence.

SBD guy is still having a lot of trouble. I honestly can't tell if he's getting better or worse. He's stuck on his side all the time unless he braces himself against some gravel or his plant. Sometimes he'll dart around and dive, even manages to right himself for a split second, but he immediately bobs back to the surface on his side. He still gets hysterical every time I get near him or touch his water, is beginning to clamp his fins, and looks like he's turning silver, starting from the base of his caudal fin and working toward his head. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm guessing stress? His colors overall are still really dull.






























As far as I can tell he has no trouble getting air, but I haven't found any waste and I can't get him to eat anything (so far I've only offered frozen daphnia) on account of how jumpy he is. I got a look at his belly today and he is definitely a little bloated, despite increasing the ES to 2tsp/gal over several days. :| And I don't know if it's relevant but it looks like his vent has something white stuck on/in it? Sorry if that's TMI or anything. It's just something I noticed and I'm not sure if it's significant.

How long should I wait for the Epsom salt to work before trying something different? I think my eyes are starting to play tricks on me. :-? This morning I was convinced he had popeye and now I keep thinking I see early signs of pineconing. Like in this picture:









You can just barely see the edges of his scales sticking up. Or _I_ can, but I might just be crazy. It's just freaking me out and blaaahhhh sick fishy. :-( I feel so bad for him.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I am not 100% sure in this, but I think white poo indicates internal parasites, going by what I have read on other threads, I don't know what you would need to treat with for that, but I am sure someone actually in the states will be able to advise you as any meds I could recommend will be different to what you can get anyway.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Wow... First of all, as everyone else has said, you and your mom are doing an EXCELLENT job of caring for these guys!

His issues were most likely all caused by the high ammonia concentration in his cup. This was poisoning him, and also may have allowed a secondary infection to set in. 

Epsom salt usually starts to work within a couple of days. So I'd say that at this point, it's done what it can do.... White poop can be due to several things: stress (which he certainly has!), food, infections, etc. So it just tells us that "something" is going on, but not specifically what the problem is.... (And yes, fish sometimes 'yawn' - this is not a problem.) 

I would continue to do very frequent water changes. Also, use a double dose of Prime. Or you can add a bit of Prime every day. 

Do you know the pH of your water? Having a slightly lower pH can help convert ammonia to ammonium, which isn't as harmful. If your pH is on the higher side, you can add a tannin source (Indian Almond Leaves, dried Oak Leaves, decaffeinated tea, etc). These will help lower the pH slightly. They also have mild antimicrobial properties, which can help keep infection from setting in.

Oxygenating the water may help. Since he's likely suffering ammonia burns on his gills, he probably isn't getting enough oxygen. I'd add some methylene blue. It helps transport oxygen through the blood. Methylene blue can also help with any nitrite poisoning that he may have.

In summary:
- You and your mom are doing an excellent job.
- Do frequent water changes, using 2x the normal amount of Prime. Or add a small amount of Prime every day.
- Add something like Methylene blue to help with oxygen transport in the body.
- Add a tannin source (Indian Almond Leaves, dried Oak Leaves, decaffeinated tea, etc).


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I agree with LBF re methylene blue. This is the key to getting a fish with ammonia poisoning healthy again. Methemoglobinemia can be caused by high nitrites and ammonia in the blood which is defiantly what happened here. Methemoglobinemia is treated with the use of methylene blue, which restores the hemoglobin to its normal oxygen-carrying state. It is best used outside the aquarium in another container 1-2g via fish dip. Make sure the temperature is close or just use your tank water. Add 3-5 drops per gallon of the mb. Treat him for 20-30 minutes then throw the blue water out. Return him to the tank with as little blue as possible. MB is hard on the good tank bacteria. Your fish will look sad for about 30 minutes after the dip but he will come around. Do 3 of these treatments in the next 48 hours and your fish should bounce back.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Stores that use methylene blue in the cups really p me off. They are poisoning by not changing water often enough in the small cup and treating him for it at the same time. MB should only be used in short term exposures not long term or until the fish is sold. Grr.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Wow... First of all, as everyone else has said, you and your mom are doing an EXCELLENT job of caring for these guys!
> 
> His issues were most likely all caused by the high ammonia concentration in his cup. This was poisoning him, and also may have allowed a secondary infection to set in.
> 
> ...





logisticsguy said:


> I agree with LBF re methylene blue. This is the key to getting a fish with ammonia poisoning healthy again. Methemoglobinemia can be caused by high nitrites and ammonia in the blood which is defiantly what happened here. Methemoglobinemia is treated with the use of methylene blue, which restores the hemoglobin to its normal oxygen-carrying state. It is best used outside the aquarium in another container 1-2g via fish dip. Make sure the temperature is close or just use your tank water. Add 3-5 drops per gallon of the mb. Treat him for 20-30 minutes then throw the blue water out. Return him to the tank with as little blue as possible. MB is hard on the good tank bacteria. Your fish will look sad for about 30 minutes after the dip but he will come around. Do 3 of these treatments in the next 48 hours and your fish should bounce back.


Thank you two so much for this! I'm preparing the dip and a new tank for him now. :-D My pH is on the high side -- 8.0 out of the tap. I've added rooibos tea for tannins and a gentle bubble stone for aeration. 

Questions, though:

1. When I put him in (and take him out of) the methylene blue bath, should I worry about acclimating him to it slowly or just make sure the temperatures match? 

2. Would it be useless or harmful to keep using Epsom salt at this stage?



logisticsguy said:


> Stores that use methylene blue in the cups really p me off. They are poisoning by not changing water often enough in the small cup and treating him for it at the same time. MB should only be used in short term exposures not long term or until the fish is sold. Grr.


Aha, yeah. :| I feel you there. Seems like it would make more sense and be more profitable for them to just take care of the fish in the first place.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Just make the temperatures match and you should not need to acclimate him. I suggest not to worry about the using Epson salt until the ammonia poison is taken care of. Whenever I see a store using methylene blue in the cups huge warning bells go off. Well cared for fish in cups do not need this product.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

The bonus here is that methylene blue is often very effective at helping swim bladder issues as well.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

So glad the Guru's have arrived to lend a hand. Hopefully he will be back to normal in no time.


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

You and your mother are saints. I just read this entire thread and cant wait for more updates. I really hope all three of them pull through especially #3 with SBD. Best of luck, and I will be keeping track!


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

logisticsguy said:


> Just make the temperatures match and you should not need to acclimate him. I suggest not to worry about the using Epson salt until the ammonia poison is taken care of. Whenever I see a store using methylene blue in the cups huge warning bells go off. Well cared for fish in cups do not need this product.





logisticsguy said:


> The bonus here is that methylene blue is often very effective at helping swim bladder issues as well.


Had a minor splashing incident when opening the bottle of methylene blue and now I look like I've murdered a smurf, but the first bath is done! I used 3 drops of MB in a gallon of water and gave him a 25 minute bath in it a few hours ago.  He was really active during the dip! He seemed like he was enjoying diving around in it, even though he bobbed right back to the surface. You were right -- he looked and acted pitiful after I took him out. He was not happy with me at all. I had to acclimate him to his new tank a little since it's in a cooler room and wasn't heating as well as I had hoped (77F instead of the 80F I was going for :|), but I think he adjusted well.

I may need to look into methylene blue for one of my other boys if it's good for swim bladder issues. My little HMDT, Finley, has had mild but ongoing balancing problems since I found him at Petsmart. It's still SBD if the problem is tilting and swimming with a curve to the spine rather than sinking or floating, right? That's Finley's issue. Maybe it's just because of his ridiculously short body. 

Thanks again for all your help!



beautiful Betta said:


> So glad the Guru's have arrived to lend a hand. Hopefully he will be back to normal in no time.


Haha, same! I'm learning so much today. I'm hoping my little floaty guy will recover after the methylene blue baths. Maybe soon he'll start showing me what color he's supposed to be!



Cari said:


> You and your mother are saints. I just read this entire thread and cant wait for more updates. I really hope all three of them pull through especially #3 with SBD. Best of luck, and I will be keeping track!


Thank you for the kind words! :-D The other two seem to be on the mend. #1 is showing his bratty side, and #2 thinks he's way sneakier than he actually is. :roll: Hopefully #3 will feel a little better in the morning and begin perking up. I'll be sure to keep the thread updated!


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## BlueLacee (Dec 8, 2013)

any fish taken from Walmart has been helped


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

How is he doing tonight?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

About the same, I think. Maybe a little more energy, but no big differences yet that I can see. Sometimes he seems weaker and other times he acts like he could fight off a shark, so it's hard to tell. He's about 20 minutes into his second MB bath as I type this. Still very skittish and tries to dive to the bottom of the tank or shoves himself between the leaves of his plant when I show up, so I haven't tried feeding him again yet.

Still no sign of waste, but maybe he just doesn't have anything to pass. :| I've never gotten him to eat anything and tomorrow I will have had him for a week. I have no idea when/if he was fed during his stay at Walmart.

No changes in appearance that I've noticed, but I'll get a better look at him when I transfer him back to the tank in a few minutes.

If he doesn't improve after his third dose of methylene blue tomorrow, would you suggest I try it for another round or switch to a new treatment?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Update*









Taken after tonight's bath. :| Still silver and stuck on his side, but he acted less pitiful this time after I put him back in the tank. He had to curve a little to do it, but I caught him floating upright once for a few seconds without him leaning on anything. :squint: Progress, maybe?


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

I hope so!

Keep it up, #3!  You can do it!


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Well Im cheering for you. Also sorry for not warning you about how awful mb stains things....but your murdered a smurf line did crack me up. Your boy had some serious poisoning and likely a bacterial infection as well. I suggest doing your last treatment at half strength and for about 10 minutes. Somewhat less stress full and should still be effective. It doesn't help that his energy is low because of the lack of food. Your doing great. The poor guy really at deaths door wish I could be more help.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

fingers crossed the little guy pulls through, he deserves a good long life, he is certainly a battler.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Cari said:


> I hope so!
> 
> Keep it up, #3!  You can do it!





beautiful Betta said:


> fingers crossed the little guy pulls through, he deserves a good long life, he is certainly a battler.


He's a tough little fish, so I'm really hopeful. I've tentatively named him 'Drifter' because, well... he drifts. 

#1 has earned the nickname 'Grump', and #2 is currently 'Goblin'. I'm not sure if I'll keep the names, but for now they're the Walmart trio of Grump, Goblin and Drifter. XD It beats calling them by numbers.



logisticsguy said:


> Well Im cheering for you. Also sorry for not warning you about how awful mb stains things....but your murdered a smurf line did crack me up. Your boy had some serious poisoning and likely a bacterial infection as well. I suggest doing your last treatment at half strength and for about 10 minutes. Somewhat less stress full and should still be effective. It doesn't help that his energy is low because of the lack of food. Your doing great. The poor guy really at deaths door wish I could be more help.


No worries about the staining! My fingernails look ridiculous, but at least I didn't get it on anything else. :-D

I'll take your advice on his last bath. I'm still hoping he'll make a sudden turnaround with the methylene blue, but if he doesn't I have other things I could try. I had excellent results with Kanaplex when my red veiltail got sick with some mystery disease, but I know medications put stress on their organs. And given his current state... :-(

I wish I could at least get him to eat something to calm him down. He might warm up to me a little and stop thinking I'm about to kill him whenever he sees me. I've been thinking maybe I should try hatching some baby brine shrimp for him. I tried offering him a pellet and he wouldn't even look at it. Same for the frozen stuff, but maybe if he saw something actually swimming around with him he might take a nibble. If they're not too small to catch his attention... :| Who knows?

Thank you so much for your help.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

No change so far. :-(

I'm going to see if he'll take any of the other foods I have. I want to keep his strength up as much as I can. If he'd take just one bite, I think we'd both feel better.


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## Kali (Jan 4, 2014)

Sending you and Drifter lots of positive thoughts and hugs. You definitely haven't hurt him in any way (like your title asks). It sounds like you've been the miracle this little guy was waiting for at the store (grump and goblin too). Keep us updated


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Has he eaten anything yet? How is he doing?

I know it's winter, but you're in a warm climate. Is there any chance of finding mosquito larvae? Bettas are insectivores. In their natural habitat, they eat mostly mosquito larvae. If you can find some, this would be an ideal food for him.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Has he eaten anything yet? How is he doing?
> 
> I know it's winter, but you're in a warm climate. Is there any chance of finding mosquito larvae? Bettas are insectivores. In their natural habitat, they eat mostly mosquito larvae. If you can find some, this would be an ideal food for him.


I'll look around my yard in the morning and see if I can find some standing water that looks promising. I'm not sure I'd find any larvae right now, though. The temperature has been fluctuating like crazy here. 

I still can't get him to eat anything. I think I've tried everything except baby brine shrimp. I've tried NLS pellets (both soaked and dry), Omega One pellets, Omega One flakes, frozen daphnia, frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, and even tried soaking some freezedried bloodworms in some of his tank water with Epsom salt dissolved in it. He doesn't so much as look at any of it, so I think feeding him is a lost cause unless I can figure out what kind of medicine he needs. :|

However, I'm sad to say I'm not sure Drifter's going to make it another night. :sob: When I went in to give him his final dip in the methylene blue, I saw him floating on his side as usual, but he was holding his mouth wide open and curling his body slightly. I don't know what that means, but I went ahead with the bath. I hope that wasn't a bad move. 

At any rate, methylene blue doesn't seem to be doing much for him. Still no sign of waste (but again, he may simply not have anything to pass) and he still looks slightly bloated. Or maybe he's just getting skinnier. :-( It's difficult to tell. 

I'm not sure how to proceed at this point, so any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated. He's been fighting so hard all week and still has some strength left, so I don't want to just give up on him. 

The only plan I can come up with is to start him on Kanaplex tomorrow, if it isn't too soon after the methylene blue and if he survives the night. :-( Beyond that, I have no ideas. I'm open to suggestions.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Just a thought, jumping on LBF's idea about live food. If you cant find any larvae you maybe able to buy some live food in a local fish store, they usually sell them in little air and water sealed bags ready to buy, usually by the till in the fish department, you may end up throwing some out but at least all your boys will get a tasty live treat.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Poor Drifter.... Kanaplex would help if the problem is due to an internal aerobic bacterial infection. Another option is metronidazole (such as API General Cure, etc). This treats both internal anaerobic bacterial infections and internal parasites. 

Kanaplex and metronidazole can be used simultaneously, but I worry that it may be too much medication for him. Then again, it may all be needed right now....

Do what you think is best. There's no right/wrong with this situation. You're doing everything that you can....


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

beautiful Betta said:


> Just a thought, jumping on LBF's idea about live food. If you cant find any larvae you maybe able to buy some live food in a local fish store, they usually sell them in little air and water sealed bags ready to buy, usually by the till in the fish department, you may end up throwing some out but at least all your boys will get a tasty live treat.


The nearest fish store (aside from my local Petsmart) is 30 minutes away. If I can get over there tomorrow and they're open, I'll definitely ask!  I know they have live brine shrimp, but I've never asked if they had anything else. 

I've never asked if Petsmart sells live food, but to be honest... my local Petsmart has sick bettas and dead fish in their aquariums every time I go in there. I'm not sure I'd take live food from that place even if they offered it to me for free. :|



LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Poor Drifter.... Kanaplex would help if the problem is due to an internal aerobic bacterial infection. Another option is metronidazole (such as API General Cure, etc). This treats both internal anaerobic bacterial infections and internal parasites.
> 
> Kanaplex and metronidazole can be used simultaneously, but I worry that it may be too much medication for him. Then again, it may all be needed right now....
> 
> Do what you think is best. There's no right/wrong with this situation. You're doing everything that you can....


His Walmart cup was so filthy it really could be anything, couldn't it? :-? 

I have General Cure as well, but I think throwing that and the Kanaplex at him at the same time might do him in. I guess I need to pick one. :-( It's depressing to think, but I figure I've probably got one more shot to medicate him and then he'll be out of strength. He has surprised me so far, though, so only time will tell. 

Do you know if praziquantel can be used with Kanaplex? I've been trying to get my hands on some since I thought Grump had internal parasites. I keep reading that it's effective but relatively gentle. Maybe combining Kanaplex with that instead of API General Cure would be less harsh on his organs, while still covering a pretty wide range of issues?


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I love multi cure's lol, I had a fish that it looked fine was swimming around OK when first home, and eating, but he suddenly started looking ill and within a day was on his side on the bottom of the tank gasping for air. I had checked water the first day he looked off and that was all fine. There was no visible signs of parasites on his body or fins, or fungus, the only thing I thought was parasites in the gills, I had a multi cure handy that contained methylene blue and malachite green, and thought well he's going to die if I do nothing, so I dosed the tank up and played the waiting game. The next day he was up and looking for food. Not saying this will work in your case but sometimes if you don't know the cause of issues, it maybe the only thing left to try. But ultimately the choice is yours and whatever you decide can only help.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I would give the mixed treatment a try. I have a fish that was in horrible shape that I got from walmart. To make matters worse, I had to take him on a 5,000 mile car trip from Alaska to New York in wintertime. 

Anyways here is an old post of mine about him. I wanted to find the original post with all the info I was given to help him but I guess it was too long ago. 
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=89758&highlight=sluggles

what i wanted to say is he got a little better before the trip. I made some premixed water so that I could easily do changes while on the road and I mixed Indian Almond Leaf, Krodon Fish protector, Amquel Plus and I think Maracyn 2 in a gallon milk jug. By the time I got to NY about 3 weeks later, he was perfectly normal. He is the only one still alive actually.

*points to siggy pic* That's him!


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Kanaplex can be used with both metronidazole and praziquantel. (General Cure contains both metronidazole and praziquantel.)

If you want to combine Kanaplex with just one of these, I'd recommend the metronidazole, since it treats both parasites (protozoa) and anaerobic bacteria. Praziquantel is only effective against parasites (worms and flukes).


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Drifter made it through the night! :-D 

I'm going on a grand search for live food in about an hour. Crossing my fingers for mosquito larvae!



beautiful Betta said:


> I love multi cure's lol, I had a fish that it looked fine was swimming around OK when first home, and eating, but he suddenly started looking ill and within a day was on his side on the bottom of the tank gasping for air. I had checked water the first day he looked off and that was all fine. There was no visible signs of parasites on his body or fins, or fungus, the only thing I thought was parasites in the gills, I had a multi cure handy that contained methylene blue and malachite green, and thought well he's going to die if I do nothing, so I dosed the tank up and played the waiting game. The next day he was up and looking for food. Not saying this will work in your case but sometimes if you don't know the cause of issues, it maybe the only thing left to try. But ultimately the choice is yours and whatever you decide can only help.


I'm glad things worked out for you and your fish! :-D I really hope mine bounces back the same way. He's been impressing me since day one. And that's very true; sometimes when you can't find a definitive cause of a problem, you just run out of time you can use to wait for clues and you have to act. I think I've reached that point with Drifter, sadly. I'm still considering my options, but I'll make a decision by this evening and start treating him.



Tikibirds said:


> I would give the mixed treatment a try. I have a fish that was in horrible shape that I got from walmart. To make matters worse, I had to take him on a 5,000 mile car trip from Alaska to New York in wintertime.
> 
> Anyways here is an old post of mine about him. I wanted to find the original post with all the info I was given to help him but I guess it was too long ago.
> http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=89758&highlight=sluggles
> ...


That's an awesome story. :-D I'm glad Sluggles pulled through! He's beautiful! His colors look identical to one of my VTs, Colonel Fishsticks. And wow, that was a huge move. You were covered in critters! You must have seen some beautiful scenery, though. My family moved from Alaska to Texas when I was about 9. Challenging journey, but there were so many gorgeous sights along the way. 

I may end up going with a mixed treatment after all, but I'm waiting until this evening to make a final decision so I can do a little research first. Seeing that people have had positive results mixing certain meds gives me some hope, so thank you for sharing. 

For now I'm focused on finding him some live food. Something wiggly and enticing for a betta fish. We'll see how things go!



LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Kanaplex can be used with both metronidazole and praziquantel. (General Cure contains both metronidazole and praziquantel.)
> 
> If you want to combine Kanaplex with just one of these, I'd recommend the metronidazole, since it treats both parasites (protozoa) and anaerobic bacteria. Praziquantel is only effective against parasites (worms and flukes).


Awesome. :-D Thank you so much. 

And thanks again to everyone who has offered advice and encouragement over the last week. I'm still a newbie, and it's been such a relief to be able to turn to such helpful and supportive people when I'm unsure of myself. You're all wonderful.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Couldn't find mosquito larvae, but I bought some live brine shrimp for him and left him alone with a few. I never saw him eat any, but I thought he dived at a couple of them before I left. I think he may have eaten one or two! There seemed to be fewer when I came back (though could have been hiding in the gravel) and I think he was slightly more bloated, but the thing is... *HE POOPED.* :shock:

I was swapping him to a temporary bowl so I could clean out his tank and start his treatment and he pooped! It's tiny and it looks weird but it's definitely poop! 

YAY POOP. Please forgive me as I describe it!

I know it's a sign of parasites if it's white, but what about if it's *GREEN*? It's a little cinnamon bun shape with a "tail" on it, and it's almost completely green. I say _almost_ because there are just a few bits of brown like an NLS pellet, and then the tail of it thins out so much it looks like a hair. It's like there's actually a tiny, thin hair sticking out of it.

What does this mean? :question: I was going to try combining Kanaplex and General Cure as LBF suggested, but now I'm second guessing myself again. Is this likely a sign of parasites and if so, should I just stick with General Cure?


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

I never thought I would say this, but YAY, POOP!


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## AmbiantNight (Feb 12, 2014)

In a situation like this poop is definitely a good thing


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

If he has eaten something and he has pooped, that is a great sign maybe he has just been clogged up, and things moving may even result in the release of pressure on Swim Bladder, and help get him upright. Fingers crossed he continues on this path.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Cari said:


> I never thought I would say this, but YAY, POOP!


EXACTLY THIS. :lol: I'm excited now!



AmbiantNight said:


> In a situation like this poop is definitely a good thing


Yes! I may be getting ahead of myself but I'm so pleased right now. :-D This at least tells me he *can* poop!



beautiful Betta said:


> If he has eaten something and he has pooped, that is a great sign maybe he has just been clogged up, and things moving may even result in the release of pressure on Swim Bladder, and help get him upright. Fingers crossed he continues on this path.


I can confirm he has eaten at least one brine shrimp! One ended up in the temp bowl with him. I walked away for a few minutes, and I couldn't find it anywhere when I came back. :-D

I've also started him on Kanaplex. If there's no improvement in 24 hours, I'll add the General Cure and see how things go from there. I'm hoping I won't have to, but I'm prepared if it looks like I need to go that route.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Well that is great, if a fish is really on death's doors they generally will not eat, that he is eating is a fantastic sign, I would try and stick to live frozen at the moment, if you can get him eating some frozen daphnia that would be great. I would even stay clear of pellets at the moment, keep it as close to a natural diet as possible. That's just how I would proceed.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

beautiful Betta said:


> Well that is great, if a fish is really on death's doors they generally will not eat, that he is eating is a fantastic sign, I would try and stick to live frozen at the moment, if you can get him eating some frozen daphnia that would be great. I would even stay clear of pellets at the moment, keep it as close to a natural diet as possible. That's just how I would proceed.


That's what I was thinking too. :-D I thought I'd stick with daphnia and brine shrimp for a while. With how long it took him to pass anything, the last thing I want to do is give him food that may be difficult to digest.

He's all covered up for the night. Before I put the towel over the tank he was diving a lot. He had to work at it, but managed to keep himself at the bottom for several seconds, then did it a few more times. Usually he reaches the gravel and gives up almost immediately. :-D Maybe this is a good sign.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I would say yes the fact that he is trying to get back into deeper water is all promising signs to me. I so so hope all your efforts will pay of for Drifter, but what with eating now that can only make him stronger.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

The live food should help. It'll move things through his digestive system, and should help with buoyancy issues. Plus, it'll give him the nutrition and quality calories/energy that he didn't get while in the store.

Don't worry about the green color. They may have fed him food that was green-colored. The important thing is that it's now been eliminated from his body.

Now that he's eating again, I'd monitor the poop on a go-forward basis. His future poop should be close to "brine-shrimp-colored." :shock:


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

If he is starting to eat, then that is a good sign!
So is pooping.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*An update on the mighty hunter!*

Drifter's been soaking up the Kanaplex for a little more than 24 hours now. No changes in appearance or swimming ability, but I think he has a bit more energy today. He almost jumped out of the tank a few hours ago. :shock: And he's definitely eating! I cupped him with *7* live brine shrimp today and he ate *all of them* while I wasn't looking! :-D

Since there weren't any changes today I added API General Cure as planned. Crossing my fingers and hoping the combination isn't too much for him. :-? I can only wait and see. 

Still, I'm encouraged by his eating. :-D I guess the processed foods didn't move around enough for him.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

That's good news he is hanging in there and eating. Wishing him all the best.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

He could have swallowed some of the methylene blue, right? One time, I gave my daughter a blue-dyed ice cream cone - you know those ones that come in the bright colors. She was about 11 months old. Later that night, I opened the diaper to find a bright green horror. Freaked out for about 3 seconds before I remembered the cone. Could that be an explanation for the green poo?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Update*



givemethatfish said:


> He could have swallowed some of the methylene blue, right? One time, I gave my daughter a blue-dyed ice cream cone - you know those ones that come in the bright colors. She was about 11 months old. Later that night, I opened the diaper to find a bright green horror. Freaked out for about 3 seconds before I remembered the cone. Could that be an explanation for the green poo?


I love how you called it a "bright green horror". :-D That's actually a good theory about the coloration. I did feed him a brine shrimp while he was in the bath once, so maybe it just soaked up some of the dye.

I can confirm he's pooped at least once more since then and this time it was a more normal size and color. So that's good. He's also still eating. I've only offered him 3-5 live brine shrimp per day for the last few days, but he tries to gobble them up as soon as he sees them. He has a surprisingly high success rate. :-D And I think he's finally figuring out I'm not trying to eat him. He waited calmly for me to drop the shrimp in front of him last time he saw the pipette coming, instead of freaking out and trying to hide.

Unfortunately, the medication hasn't made a lot of difference that I can see. His buoyancy issues are the same, his color is still funky and he still looks a little bit bloated. I do think he has a bit more energy, though. The fact that he's still eating and pooping now and then makes me think one of the meds helped some, but he's finished his round of General Cure and I'm giving him his last dose of Kanaplex this morning before I leave on a trip.

I'm not sure what to do after that. :|


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Thats really good new that hes eating and now trusts you.  hopefully all he need is some time to get all the bad stuff out of his system.
As for his color maybe although he feels better the fact that he cant swim properly is freaking him out some but maybe with him trusting you he will figure out thats its safe 
Fingers crossed for him
I would love to see a update photo of him if you have one.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Sabina88 said:


> Thats really good new that hes eating and now trusts you.  hopefully all he need is some time to get all the bad stuff out of his system.
> As for his color maybe although he feels better the fact that he cant swim properly is freaking him out some but maybe with him trusting you he will figure out thats its safe
> Fingers crossed for him
> I would love to see a update photo of him if you have one.



Maybe so. :| I do hope he improves, but I'm not sure what else to try, or if I should stop medicating for now. I'm going to try feeding him some daphnia later. No idea if he'll take it. The shrimp are the only things I've seen him interested in.

I might try getting another photo, but honestly his appearance hasn't really changed as far as I can tell. I'll give him a closer look tonight. Thank you for the good wishes.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Your welcome, hes a lucky guy to have someone trying so hard to help him get better 

I was wondering, what do you do for water changes?


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I personally would leave the medications for a while, just see if you can get his strength back up with regular feedings, and just keeping his water clean and warm.

Glad to hear he is hanging in there, maybe his issues will correct them self the stronger and less stressed he gets.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Can you post some new photos of him? It will allow us (and you) to compare how he looks now to how he looked before.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Sabina88 said:


> Your welcome, hes a lucky guy to have someone trying so hard to help him get better
> 
> I was wondering, what do you do for water changes?


For Drifter specifically?  He's in a dinky 1 gallon right now, so he gets 100% water changes 3 times each week. I usually set a bucket out the day before, treat with Prime (3 drops/gal initially because of ammonia in my tap water, 4 lately per suggestions from this thread) about 20 minutes before the change, cup him, dump and rinse the tank, rinse the plant/rocks, then fill it up with the treated water.

I make sure the temperature is the same or within 2 degrees either way of the old water, then drop a rooibos teabag in the tank and spend 20-30 minutes acclimating him by adding a little new water every 5 minutes or so. Which may not be entirely necessary, but I'm a little paranoid. D: Do you think my process needs tweaking?



beautiful Betta said:


> I personally would leave the medications for a while, just see if you can get his strength back up with regular feedings, and just keeping his water clean and warm.
> 
> Glad to hear he is hanging in there, maybe his issues will correct them self the stronger and less stressed he gets.


It would be awesome if his immune system would kick in and take care of things, heh. :-D I don't really know what to think right now. It didn't look like the medicine was working, but during his latest feeding (live brine shrimp again. He won't touch anything else.) I noticed changes! They're not major, mind you, but it's something. It seems like he has way more energy, maybe from the food, and it looks like he's on his side a little less. 

He used to be stuck flat with his upturned side and eye out of the water, but tonight it looked like he was more upright, with just a part of his back sticking out. When he was diving he actually looked pretty stable, as far as the orientation of his body is concerned. He still bobs back to the surface when he doesn't hide under his plant, but he floats up more slowly now and seems able to keep himself at the bottom for longer. 

I don't know what did it, but I hope it was enough of a boost for him to get past this. :shock:



LittleBlueFishlets said:


> Can you post some new photos of him? It will allow us (and you) to compare how he looks now to how he looked before.


I'll be sure to do that tomorrow. I was going to tonight and then I forgot to take some. D:


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

It often takes a little time for the positive effects of any meds to visibly show up. His own immune system was at rock bottom and that is not easy to over come. Kanaplex is a good antibiotic but like all antibiotics it tends to wipe out all bacteria in the the fish gut even the good bacteria that aids in the fishs own immune system. These days when a human doctor prescribes antibiotics it is frequently accompanied by a prescription for probiotics like Florastore or Culturelle to restore the good gut bacteria. These *good guy* bacteria keep things in balance and help the immune system produce disease resistant t cells. I suspect it may take a while for his own system to build up good colonies of the good guys. This process can be speeded up by giving fish human probiotics. You could do what I do if you choose. Its fairly easy. Culturelle is available in many grocery stores in powder capsules. You could use other brands but Culturelle has a trademarked bacteria called Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG. This is an amazing bacteria that has been shown to spark immune systems in fish and people. It also has great success surviving stomach acids and literally poisons bad bacteria in the gut by producing hydrogen peroxide and lactic acids. If you break open the pill you can cover bloodworms or brine shrimp with the probiotic. It doesn't take very much just a sprinkle on the food. Simple, cheap and effective. Study shows it can also boost the growth rate of fish especially young fry where I add it to the new hatch brine shrimp once a week very early in the frys life.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im not really an expert on this but maybe try adding in a extra water change or two, just to keep clean fresh water in his system


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Another update!*



logisticsguy said:


> It often takes a little time for the positive effects of any meds to visibly show up. His own immune system was at rock bottom and that is not easy to over come. Kanaplex is a good antibiotic but like all antibiotics it tends to wipe out all bacteria in the the fish gut even the good bacteria that aids in the fishs own immune system. These days when a human doctor prescribes antibiotics it is frequently accompanied by a prescription for probiotics like Florastore or Culturelle to restore the good gut bacteria. These *good guy* bacteria keep things in balance and help the immune system produce disease resistant t cells. I suspect it may take a while for his own system to build up good colonies of the good guys. This process can be speeded up by giving fish human probiotics. You could do what I do if you choose. Its fairly easy. Culturelle is available in many grocery stores in powder capsules. You could use other brands but Culturelle has a trademarked bacteria called Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG. This is an amazing bacteria that has been shown to spark immune systems in fish and people. It also has great success surviving stomach acids and literally poisons bad bacteria in the gut by producing hydrogen peroxide and lactic acids. If you break open the pill you can cover bloodworms or brine shrimp with the probiotic. It doesn't take very much just a sprinkle on the food. Simple, cheap and effective. Study shows it can also boost the growth rate of fish especially young fry where I add it to the new hatch brine shrimp once a week very early in the frys life.


I had no idea about any of that. :-D Thank you so much! I'll definitely be looking into it. It sounds like it could give him a much needed boost!



Sabina88 said:


> Im not really an expert on this but maybe try adding in a extra water change or two, just to keep clean fresh water in his system


I'll try.  I'm worried about more changes stressing him out, but maybe I can sneak in a couple of partials between full changes without making things too hard on him. I'll see how it goes over the next few days. 


And now for the picspam~! Updates on everyone! I swear one day I'll remember to wipe down the outside of my tanks _before_ I take pictures. 

*Drifter*













It's hard to tell, but these two are of him diving away from me and keeping himself oriented properly.








Aaand back to clamping. He doesn't like my camera.

Not sure how helpful these pictures are. I got one of him upright for once, but it was really blurry. His fins are looking increasingly bad. :| He *is* having a bit more success keeping himself upright, though. At the very least, he doesn't immediately flop over onto his side anymore. Still eating, but only the brine shrimp. It seems he will accept nothing less than live, terrified prey for his nutritional needs. 

And while I haven't seen any more _recognizable_ poop, I do think he's pooping. I find little bits of stuff that's about the right color on the bottom of the tank all the time and can't find any other explanation for what it would be. I think maybe he poops when I'm not around and it breaks down into smaller pieces before I can see it. 


*Goblin*
















Goblin is still doing the best out of the three. I haven't been having any problems with him at all. He's friendly, active, shows off to me all the time, eats like a horse, poops like a champion, and makes a bubble nest every day. :grin: I'm crazy happy about his progress.


*Grump*
















Grump is doing *much* better, but he's still recovering. He bloats easily and has some digestive issues, unfortunately. He only poops 2-3 times every week, and when he does it's huge. On the bright side, frozen daphnia and live food seems to be helping, and his color is much more vibrant. :-D


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

You have done and are still doing an amazing job for all 3 boys. Goblin is stunning what a handsome boy he is. He would be my favourite in colour terms.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im glad drifter is slowly starting to get better. He has an awesome person caring for him 
Just a thought and I don't know if you already did this but maybe put some plastic wrap over his tank to keep the air nice and humid, that might also help a little if any part of him that's above water when he is on his side doesn't get quite as dry since there will be a lot more moisture in the air


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

*Drifter*

This thread made me sad and happy at the same time. Sad that Walmart would treat their fish this way. I am also happy that Drifter has found an owner and a loving home where he is being cared for and I think he knows it too by the way you are giving him all the TLC that he needs. Let us know how he is doing and the rest of your fish.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Thank you all for your kind words and help so far.  Drifter seems to be holding steady. I think he's constipated again so I fasted him for 24 hours and then gave him some frozen daphnia -- and he actually ate it! Didn't have to trick him or anything. He just waited patiently for me to drop it in. I'll be fasting him again for a day or two, or until I see something worthy of being called 'poop'.

On a more frustrating note, it looks like I jinxed Goblin by saying he wasn't having any problems. :frustrated: I'm freaking out now. I have no idea what happened. I fed him his daphnia tonight, he was perfect, happily chasing it while it floated to the bottom, so I moved on to my next few bettas. After I was done with Drifter, I went back to Goblin to siphon up any refuse on the bottom of the tank and he was holding one of his gill covers out like it was stuck.
















He's still like this. This happened in a span of _minutes_. There's nothing in the tank he could injure himself on, and he acts like he's not bothered in the least. _What on earth happened?_ :question: Could he have flared and overextended it or something? Can I do anything for him? Should I make a new thread? Should I even worry? I'm just... bewildered by this.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Don't worry too much he has likely gotten a bit food debris in his gill while eating, he will shake it out eventually.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm so glad that Drifter & Grump are doing well! 

How is Goblin doing? As Beautiful Betta said, he may just have gotten a bit of food caught in the gill. Sometimes, bits of food come out that way when they eat, so if it was a largish piece, it may just have gotten caught.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im glad Drifter seems to be feeling a bit better. And poor Goblin, hope he feels better soon


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

beautiful Betta said:


> Don't worry too much he has likely gotten a bit food debris in his gill while eating, he will shake it out eventually.





LittleBlueFishlets said:


> I'm so glad that Drifter & Grump are doing well!
> 
> How is Goblin doing? As Beautiful Betta said, he may just have gotten a bit of food caught in the gill. Sometimes, bits of food come out that way when they eat, so if it was a largish piece, it may just have gotten caught.





Sabina88 said:


> Im glad Drifter seems to be feeling a bit better. And poor Goblin, hope he feels better soon


Goblin is in good spirits, but he's vexing me. The gill was back to normal this morning. Now it's stuck out again. I'm pretty sure one of my other boys was trying to fake his own death earlier, so I'm starting to feel like they're playing tricks on me. 

I didn't know they could get food stuck in their gills, though it makes perfect sense now that I think about it. Since this has only happened after he gets food, beautiful Betta is probably right. Should I skip a few of his feedings or just let him work it out on his own?


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Out of curiosity I was looking up what might cause it, this is just one question and answer that might help you figure out whats wrong 


01-04-2010, 9:04 PM

I jsut got home and looked at one of my bettas and noticed one of his gills is stuck flared out! it's very hard in place. I took him out aand sedated him a little bit to get a closer look and couldn't see any real physical cause for it. He's back in his tank now swimming around. I have no idea what caused it, how serious it is, etc. He's in a divided tank with another betta (female) on the other side, so I'm nervous to use any meds.

Anyone ever seen this?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



01-05-2010, 9:24 PM

Is it just sticking out more than the other one? And when he flares can you notice an obvious difference in the gill cover?
There could be several causes for this:
1. He has been exposed to other bettas/has gotten into a fight, leaving a damaged gill
2. Ammonia burns
3. Gill parasites
4. Water quality issues
5. Genetics
In the case of option 1, it rarely heals, but as long as he is active, alert and healthy, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. As for option 2 and 4, can you tell us about your water params? As for option 3 you can treat flukes with Coppersafe, Formalin 3, or Permoxyn, and if you feel that it is gill disease afflicting him, Maracyn Two would work. As for option 5 unless it his causing him great discomfort, and making him sluggish/weak/tired, or giving him a lack of an appetite, it should be alright. Some bettas outgrow their genetics & change over time, and some don't. As long as it isn't affecting your little guy's comfort and well-being, there is nothing wrong with him.
Again, water params, tank size, tank temperature, water change frequency/percentage, and any noted behavioural changes would help. As would pictures.
What did you use to sedate him? Have you tried to block their view of one another (the male and the female bettas?) Does he flare very often? (24/7 or rarely)
Good luck

Hopefully this will help a little, I did look at other ones with questions simaler to the one above and the answers were also simaler.


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## Conuremama (Feb 12, 2014)

I just read this whole thread. I love and admire your dedication to Drifter. I can honestly say I don't know many people who take the time to care this much about fish! I hope they are doing well tonight!


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I would still feed, the action of eating and the motion with the gills at the same time might actually help move a bit of debris.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

+1 on what Beautiful Betta said.

Try putting your fingers right in front of your ears. Pretend you're chewing something. As you open your mouth, you should feel the area 'open up.' That's the same area as where their gills are. So the act of chewing might help clear out that area.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Sabina88 said:


> Out of curiosity I was looking up what might cause it, this is just one question and answer that might help you figure out whats wrong
> ...
> Hopefully this will help a little, I did look at other ones with questions simaler to the one above and the answers were also simaler.


Thank you for that! It's good to know what else can cause it. I'm on the lookout for any other funky symptoms, but I think beautiful Betta was right about him just getting some food stuck somewhere. He's a bottomless pit and gets pretty aggressive when it's feeding time, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just got too enthusiastic and sucked something into the wrong spot. :-D I've seen him attack bubbles when he thought they were pellets.



Conuremama said:


> I just read this whole thread. I love and admire your dedication to Drifter. I can honestly say I don't know many people who take the time to care this much about fish! I hope they are doing well tonight!


They're doing well, thank you! That's why I love this place. Lots of people who love their fish as much as I love mine. :-D Most of the people I know personally (family in particular) think I'm insane for putting this much effort into them because "they're just _fish!_" :roll: They just don't _know. _



beautiful Betta said:


> I would still feed, the action of eating and the motion with the gills at the same time might actually help move a bit of debris.





LittleBlueFishlets said:


> +1 on what Beautiful Betta said.
> 
> Try putting your fingers right in front of your ears. Pretend you're chewing something. As you open your mouth, you should feel the area 'open up.' That's the same area as where their gills are. So the act of chewing might help clear out that area.


Excellent point. :-D Thank you both! It went away (again) before I fed him tonight. I gave him a thorough inspection and it looked like there was a tiny white bump at the top of the gill cover, right where it joins to his body. I'll be watching that spot like a hawk, but maybe he had something stuck in there that irritated it a little?

I gave him an early water change just to be safe. Drifter got a change tonight as well, with Epsom salt added. I know ES was ineffective when I first brought him home, but I think it might be worth another shot since he's made a little progress. My guess is now that he's not quite as overwhelmed by whatever was/is causing the problem, the ES may finally be able to help him get rid of whatever garbage built up in his organs at Walmart.

At least, that's my hope. I'd settle for a decent poop, though.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Fingers crossed for drifter, but I don't think he will suddenly die now, as he seems to be improving, slowly but improving none the less. You are doing great for him.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Setangha said:


> Thank you for that! It's good to know what else can cause it. I'm on the lookout for any other funky symptoms, but I think beautiful Betta was right about him just getting some food stuck somewhere. He's a bottomless pit and gets pretty aggressive when it's feeding time, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just got too enthusiastic and sucked something into the wrong spot. :-D I've seen him attack bubbles when he thought they were pellets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats good that it was only debree with goblin


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Just to give a little update:

- *Grump* is still having digestive/bloating issues, but they're slowly improving. Otherwise, he seems to be doing great. :-D Tomorrow he'll be moving out of his hospital tank, back to his 5g now that the chemical smell from that log decoration is finally gone.

- *Goblin* is back to holding his gill out. He spent most of the day with it flared. He's still not in any distress from what I can tell, but he flared at me twice out of the blue. I'm not sure if that's significant. He's now swimming around with a soothing rooibos teabag to relax him. Hopefully it will help him work out whatever's stuck in there -- _if_ there's something stuck in there.

- As for *Drifter*... he appears to be responding to the Epsom salt this time! :-D :-D :-D This morning he kept himself upright for several seconds, without support from his plant or the wall of the tank or anything. He was wobbly and had to curve his body slightly to stabilize, _but he did it!_ I know that doesn't sound like much, but for a fish who has spent three weeks on his side it looked pretty fantastic to me.

He seemed to do even better later in the day. He's still floating on his side most of the time and his progress is slow and comes in tiny increments, but it's happening! And~! He trusts me enough to sit still and wait for food when I walk over with the pipette. He's clamping less, too. I'm so pumped now. :-D Maybe I shouldn't be talking about it yet -- I don't want to jinx him like I jinxed Goblin roll.

... _But I'msoexcited a;l;ldask'aslkd;la laskjd;fla_ :-D I think he's finally coming out of it!


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

No you wont jinx him it is all in our heads, lol. I think every fish owner feels like that at times.

Great to hear he is responding to the treatment.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

The gill may still be a little irritated. I'd just keep an eye on it for now. It may take a couple of days for any abrasions/cuts to heal up.

If you want to see how far they've all come, go back and read the 1st page of this thread..... It's amazing what 20 days of good care has done for them!


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

beautiful Betta said:


> No you wont jinx him it is all in our heads, lol. I think every fish owner feels like that at times.
> 
> Great to hear he is responding to the treatment.


It's not just me then? :-D Lol, sometimes I feel crazy over these fish. 



LittleBlueFishlets said:


> The gill may still be a little irritated. I'd just keep an eye on it for now. It may take a couple of days for any abrasions/cuts to heal up.
> 
> If you want to see how far they've all come, go back and read the 1st page of this thread..... It's amazing what 20 days of good care has done for them!


That was a good idea, haha. :-D They've come a lot farther than I thought. I feel like I brought them home just yesterday.

I've been keeping his water clean and full of tannins (which prompted him to make the biggest bubble nest I've ever seen), and feeding him as normal, but Goblin is now holding his gill out continuously. It's been a solid 2 days and I haven't seen him tuck it back in at all. Still haven't noticed any other signs of distress, but I'm beginning to worry. 

In Drifter news: I've had him on 1 1/2 tsp/gal ES for a few days. Planning to increase to 2 tsp/gal tomorrow. He's still floating and wobbly and his colors are as cruddy as ever, but...









:-D THIS is happening a lot more often, for much longer periods than a few days ago. He fully trusts the pipette now, and even tried to chase it across the water today. He didn't do very well, but... he tried.

Progress! :-D


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Oh well big cheer for Drifter, the crowd goes wild, lol.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Setangha said:


> It's not just me then? :-D Lol, sometimes I feel crazy over these fish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's awesome, im glad he is starting to straighten himself a little more. He's a really lucky guy, not many people would do what you've done for him, I bet he really happy you never gave up on him


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## lovee1795 (Jan 28, 2014)

I've been following this thread since day 1 and I just wanted to say how awesome it is that you rescued these guys and have brought them back to much better health!


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

I was wondering Setangha, how long after you got Goblin did he start sticking his gill out?


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## Clarinut (Dec 17, 2013)

*Similar situation*

I'm a similar situation as you are. I brought home a betta from the petsmart because he was just lying at the bottom of the cup and seemed close to death. I attached a picture of when I'd just gotten him and was acclimating him to his new tank. After some research I've concluded that I think he has swim bladder disorder, but he seems okay since he's eating and stuff, he just keeps dropping to the bottom of the tank like a rock. I'm going to follow this thread and try to follow whatever advice you get


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## venusG (Mar 24, 2014)

_*i agree the bowl from walmart was nasty*_


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Sabina88 said:


> That's awesome, im glad he is starting to straighten himself a little more. He's a really lucky guy, not many people would do what you've done for him, I bet he really happy you never gave up on him





Sabina88 said:


> I was wondering Setangha, how long after you got Goblin did he start sticking his gill out?


Drifter's a bit grumpy with me right now, really.







He wants to eat the world, but I haven't been feeding him very much since he's still not producing much in the way of waste. 

Goblin's gill problem showed up about 17 days after I got him, and it's now been a week since it started. Stuck food seemed to be the likely culprit since he's not acting sick. I thought he would have shaken it loose by now, though. 



lovee1795 said:


> I've been following this thread since day 1 and I just wanted to say how awesome it is that you rescued these guys and have brought them back to much better health!


Thank you!  They're still not fully recovered, but I'm working on them. I want to give them the best care possible after the nightmare they were in.



Clarinut said:


> I'm a similar situation as you are. I brought home a betta from the petsmart because he was just lying at the bottom of the cup and seemed close to death. I attached a picture of when I'd just gotten him and was acclimating him to his new tank. After some research I've concluded that I think he has swim bladder disorder, but he seems okay since he's eating and stuff, he just keeps dropping to the bottom of the tank like a rock. I'm going to follow this thread and try to follow whatever advice you get


Best of luck! You could start another thread for your new guy if you don't find what you're looking for here, but I've been given some excellent advice so far. I'd be surprised if some of it didn't work for you.  

A hungry betta seems like a great sign to me. I bet he'll be swimming along in no time. :-D He's a lucky little guy to have someone looking out for him now. Please keep us updated on his progress!


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Update*

I apologize for the long, somewhat rambly post. Update time:

- *Grump:* Back in his very own 5 gallon tank. He's at a cozy 82 degrees with a great big IAL to hide under. True to his name, he's being grumpy about it and acts all moody unless I'm shoving food at him. Otherwise seems to be doing well.








He is the grumpiest of the grumps.

- *Goblin:* Still holding his gill cover out. I really don't know what's up. He doesn't act sick at all and I don't see anything suspicious around the gill itself, but it's been 10 days. Since I have no other ideas, I'm going to see if getting him to flare at a mirror for a few minutes every day will help. :-?









- *Drifter: *Still floating, but I'm now seeing him upright or mostly upright more often than not. :-D He's now eating anything I offer him and he'll happily chase the pipette to the best of his ability. He even jumped a little and bit it once when I wasn't moving fast enough for him.  Now that he's easier to get a look at, I've noticed his right pectoral fin curves forward pretty dramatically and appears to have a limited range of motion. Could this be a deformity?

Still treating him with ES, though I'll be gradually weaning him off of it over the next few days. (I want to start feeding him daphnia again, but I keep reading that daphnia in additon to ES could dehydrate him. :question He's also on his second and final round of Kanaplex and getting a few meals per week sprinkled with Culturelle, which I'm hoping will help his digestion issues. 

Sadly, I haven't been able to spot any more "true" poop. Just little granule-looking things in the bottom of the tank that I can't yet attribute to anything else. I would have expected more bloating and worsening buoyancy if he wasn't pooping *at all*, but... I really don't know. He's got a little round tummy and it looks (again/still) like he has something white in or on his vent, a bit more prominent than the last time I remember checking. :| Tomorrow I will have had him for a month and he's only pooped *three* *times*, unless the granules I keep finding are in fact tiny bits of waste. 

Even so, he's still making little improvements. I think even his fins may be getting better.  He's eating and wiggling and chasing stuff around, so I don't think he's out of the fight yet. I still have some ideas to try. At this point I'm thinking his big issue is one of two things:*1.* Really stubborn parasites that weren't kicked by the General Cure, in which case wouldn't he still be passing recognizable waste or losing a lot of weight?​*2.* An intestinal blockage. Since he can't seem to poop and floats up by a spot just behind where his organs would be, I'm guessing this is a real likelihood. And if that's the case, can anything be done?​















Chasing the pipette!









As always, I'm open to any input.  Thanks again to everyone who has already commented with advice or words of encouragement.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I know it is controversial here, but I have two books by Betta experts and both recommend feeding small amounts of a pea to clear a blockage. They recommend defrosting the pea in warm water, peeling the skin off and feeding tiny portions of the inner flesh. I did try it with a sick betta I had, it didn't do anything for him, he was old anyway and his tummy was likely related to other issues, but it didn't appear to have harmed him either.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

I don't think I'd be comfortable trying the pea method with a betta, though I appreciate the suggestion.  I've had consistently good results using frozen daphnia with my other bettas, so I'm hoping to try that now that I don't have to trick him into eating it. If he's just crazy constipated maybe it would help. But whether it would do anything for a _blockage_...

I had an idea about that, though. I've been thinking of getting him a bigger tank somewhere in the range of 3-5 gallons. His current 1 gallon home is convenient for water changes and dosing medications, but it's a weird shape and kinda cramped. My theory is a larger surface area may encourage him to swim around more, especially if I can rig up some decorations he can dive under and use to hold himself underwater without getting stuck. 

The combination of frozen daphnia on a regular basis with the probiotic and increased physical activity could potentially get things moving, right? Maybe? :hmm:


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi Setangha. I personally am on the fence regarding the pea debate. There are merits to both sides. I just want to let you know that during my continuing research on probiotics Ive discovered that Lactobartria Rhamnosis GG and Kanamyacin are resistant to each other. Both are powerful bacteriums. So it is likely best to discontinue using Culturelle until his Kanaplex treatment is complete. A day or two after completing the Kanaplex you would be fine to start using the probiotics again.


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## CrazyFloridaBettas (Mar 27, 2014)

I have used the pea method and it works fine. No harm done to the little betta, just relief.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

logisticsguy said:


> Hi Setangha. I personally am on the fence regarding the pea debate. There are merits to both sides. I just want to let you know that during my continuing research on probiotics Ive discovered that Lactobartria Rhamnosis GG and Kanamyacin are resistant to each other. Both are powerful bacteriums. So it is likely best to discontinue using Culturelle until his Kanaplex treatment is complete. A day or two after completing the Kanaplex you would be fine to start using the probiotics again.


Yikes! Thanks for that! No more Culturelle for a while then. I guess I should have looked into that a little more first. 



CrazyFloridaBettas said:


> I have used the pea method and it works fine. No harm done to the little betta, just relief.


I'm glad it worked for you! :-D I'm used to reading stories about mixing bettas and peas that didn't have such positive outcomes, so I'm pretty leery of the idea, especially since Drifter is in such a bind at the moment. I know it works with some fish and backfires with others, though I admit I don't really know much about the method. I'm familiar with stuff like daphnia -- peas, not so much. 

Out of curiosity, did you do anything special to the pea (like soaking it in garlic juice) before you fed it to your betta?


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## haveyouhadyourteayet (Jan 14, 2014)

As far as I've read, the pea thing is really just pushing the pea through the betta's system... People have reported the betta pooping out undigested pea. It's like a roter rooter, I suppose. If there's a blockage, it should shove it out, but it might damage the system in the process...


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## lovee1795 (Jan 28, 2014)

Don't you just wish some days that animals could talk? It would make treating them so much easier. (I'm currently going to school to be a vet tech - this will be my life long struggle, lol.)


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

I would not use a pea.... I'd continue with frozen daphnia OR use a small amount of Epsom salt. (But don't do both methods.)

He may still have some SBD issues. It could be due to his previous health problems, or it could even be something congenital. But either way, he seems to be doing much, much better. So I'd just give him some time and see what happens.


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## Clarinut (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Setangha! I posted a little while ago about my rescue betta who went through the same thing. Anyways, I went to the NC State Veterinary School open house last Saturday and spoke with the fish doctor who told me to some aquarium salt (about a teaspoon per gallon) because apparently "bettas like a bit of salt." After that, stay off the medications and just keep the water clean and time will help the betta heal. I tried it and now my betta is doing so much better. I'd really encourage you to try the same thing. If you don't see immediate improvements that's fine, just give it a week or two and hopefully your betta will get better like mine did. As long as you don't see any deterioration in Drifter from this method I think it wouldn't hurt to try.


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*That's right. News! About poop!*

After nearly a month, Drifter finally pooped today! It was a huge and mighty poop! The grand champion of poops! The poop of a warrior! The *overlord* of poops! 

I don't know what finally did it but YAY. I wonder if the probiotic did the trick! I had him on ES for about 2 weeks, ending last night, but didn't see anything worthy of the title 'poop' during that time. After his last round of Kanaplex I started sprinkling one of his meals with Culturelle every other day. Because of his constipation I wasn't feeding him much or often, but on Sunday I was out of brine shrimp and felt sorry for him, so I soaked three little NLS pellets for him for half an hour. Monday night, as a treat for putting up with his water change, I soaked two more small pellets with some Culturelle sprinkled in. 

Then today there was a present waiting for me. Plus, he's less floaty and more balanced! :-D GOOD JOB, DRIFTER.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

That's awesome 

He is the luckiest fish in the world to have you trying so hard for a month without giving up and it payed off


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

Yaaaay Drifter! I commend him on his mighty poop. It must have been building up for all this time. Hopefully whatever was preventing him from having normal poops is all better now. You've done a wonderful job getting him this far, by the way!


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## haveyouhadyourteayet (Jan 14, 2014)

Make a little poop crown.
Actually don't that's disgusting.


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## Tree (Sep 29, 2013)

Wow! this story is amazing. The dedication you and your mom have. I would never have the time to take care of them sick bettas. Good for you! 

I will be watching this thread now.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

That's great news.


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

How's Drifter doing?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

BettaBeau said:


> How's Drifter doing?


Still kickin'!  Since his intestinal blockage resolved itself he hasn't had much trouble pooping, as long as I don't feed him more than 4-5 pellets every day. He had a bit of a relapse with the floatiness over the past week, but it's getting better. I think it was because I didn't soak his food long enough once. 

The worst Drifter-related issue I've had lately has been some kind of fungus growing in his tank that I can't seem to get rid of. So far he doesn't seem affected by it, though, and there's a lot less of it growing in there after scrubbing all his decorations a few times.

Overall he seems to be doing pretty well. He's in his own heated, cycled 5 gallon tank now with some silk plants, rocks and a floating Perler bead house. His colors still suck, honestly, but his fin problems have gone away and he's active and seems perky. :-D


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## KFoster (Mar 26, 2014)

Wow I just read this post beginning to end! 

You and your mom are amazing! Subscribed so I get more Drifter updates!


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## hubbley (Apr 23, 2014)

I also just read this whole thing. These are some lucky little fish.  Definitely keep updating us with pictures and everything, I feel confident that one day we'll all check back and there will be a picture of drifter, sitting happily on the bottom of a tank with proud poop piles around him.

Maybe not that exact image, but you get the idea.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

So glad to here Drifter is doing well. How is Goblin, did his gill issue resolve itself?


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## KlutzyGal (Mar 31, 2014)

Just got done reading through all 12 pages of this thread - awesome comeback story for Drifter! Kudos to you and your mom for rescuing the three, and big kudos to you for all the time and dedication you've put into getting Drifter back 'on his feet' so to speak. He really is quite the trooper, holding out high hopes for him that he'll continue to improve and make a full recovery!


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## Cari (Jan 8, 2014)

I'd love to hear an update on these little guys when you have time. So curious about drifter. Will he make a full recovery? The mystery continues.


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## LadyNightraven (Jun 30, 2013)

I'd love to see an update on these lucky little guys when you're able to post one. I've been following this thread for a while, and it's so amazing to see how far they've come.


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

Drifter has a fan club! Yay! How's he doing?


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

Well, it looks like I spoke too soon. :-( I'm sad to report that over the last 2 weeks the floatiness I thought was brought on by pellets that were too dry has become an almost total relapse. He perked up for a few days and started to decline again. I've been trying to fend off his symptoms with water changes and ES with no success. The Epsom salt actually seemed to make things _worse_ this time.

I finally gave up on conservative treatments last night when I noticed his entire caudal fin was turning red. He's on Kanaplex now, currently spending most of his time hiding behind the heater or filter baffle, but he's still eating and pooping. So there's that. :-? 

As for Grump and Goblin: 

Goblin's in good spirits and doing great healthwise. :-D His gill issue never fully resolved itself, but it's much, much better than it was. It only sticks out a little now. I'm assuming it's related to permanent damage from his time at Walmart, though I'm not too worried about it since it doesn't seem to bother him.


Grump is as feisty and bratty as ever, and is the king of my mother's office. None may pass until they get the betta wiggle dance of approval. If they try, he gets all sullen until visitors stop ignoring him.

He's still a bit barrel chested and has occasional digestive problems, but that's nothing compared to his annoyingly persistent fin rot. I've been fighting it since day 1. Months of frequent, sometimes daily, water changes and salt and all that jazz and it didn't seem to do anything. I _think_ I've finally kicked it, but only after breaking out the fish meds. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it doesn't come back.


Thank you all so much for the words of support. It's uplifting to know so many people care about these little fish. I wish I had better news about Drifter. :-( I'll keep everyone updated and try to remember to take some pics in the next few days.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im sorry to hear about drifter 
Im glad that he is at least eating and pooping, that is at least better then when you first got him. I wonder what caused him to relapse, poor guy. It awesome how much time and care you've given to him, no matter what happens to him, he found an amazing home to spend his time. Fingers crossed for a full recovery.


Haha I love Grumps personality. 
I would love to see some updated pics of all three boys if you happen to have any.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

Poor drifter, but he would have surely died if left in that pet shop, so whatever happens with him you have given him a chance and given some good months, lets just hope he pulls through this down turn.

So glad the other two are doing fine. You have been amazing with all these fish.


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## Jonthefish (Jun 16, 2014)

Love how much you care about your fishies and how you didn't just give up !!! Hope to hear more good news ! God bless you and your fish !! <3


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## candacerose (Jun 20, 2014)

i just joined and i have to say this the only thread i have actually bothered to completely read, very informational and inspiring! what you are doing with saving these bettas is amazing! i just got my first baby betta a couple days ago (still don't know the gender yet) i got bubbles from petco and the colors were a little dull, after feeding it a couple days the colors have brightened up so much and it seems like a completely different fish! has so much energy now and loves to follow me and watch me. i never new a fish could have so much personality, but i'm in love! 
but reading your thread as inspirited me to do some saving of my own when i have more experience with raising bettas... i posted a thread if any of you want to see pictures  they aren't that great of quality, but i'll update them soon.

and i hope drifter makes a full recovery! i'm definitely going to keep checking and seeing how he's doing


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## brian c (Jun 25, 2014)

sweet man American hero thats what you are


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*A quick, overdue update*

Thanks for the comments and encouragement, everyone! I'm really sorry I haven't been updating like I said I would. Life has been pretty hectic for me lately and stuff keeps slipping my mind.

Drifter has just finished up a round of Kanaplex. It'll probably be the last time. It pains me to think about it, but I think his condition has reached a point where I have to start considering euthanasia. :-( He's not happy and he's not really showing any improvement, and I hate the idea that I may just be prolonging his suffering. I'm still not sure what triggered his relapse, but we've been fighting it for over a month now, and every time he seems to improve a little he quickly slips back into all the old symptoms.

I'm going to watch him for about a week and try perking him up with probiotics, then reassess. He's such a tough little fish. I keep hoping he'll suddenly turn around, but I'm feeling pretty low about his prospects these days. I'm still open to suggestions if anyone has ideas.


As for Grump and Goblin: 

Grump's fin rot has resisted every single thing I've thrown at it and has progressed enough that I'm ready to panic. He looks so terrible. It's been moving very slowly ever since we brought him home, but it's moving faster now and just isn't going away. 

I can't even use salt, because I suspect Grump has some amount of organ damage from his time in Walmart. I tried using aquarium salt for the rot 3 times over the last few months (with ultimately no success) and each time, he became bloated and lethargic almost immediately. He seems really sensitive to it. For the same reason, I'm worried about throwing more meds at him because I know they can be very hard on a betta's organs, but I don't know what choice I have left.

To make matters worse, several of my bettas share a siphon with Grump and it looks like I contaminated other tanks with this junk in the last 2-3 weeks. I always wash the siphon between tanks and try to leave Grump for last, but I guess I got in a rush and didn't clean it thoroughly enough. :frustrated: Five of my other bettas (mostly fin biters) have ended up with it -- Goblin among them -- and it seems to be following the same trend as Grump's: slow moving but stubborn.

I'm terrified I may have unleashed some unstoppable fin plague into my aquariums. I'm just at a loss. :blueworry: I'll probably be making a new thread about that tomorrow when I have time. Never thought I'd be dealing with this kind of health breakdown in my tanks. 

Thank you all again for your support with these little guys. I wish I had better news to share.


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear you are having so many troubles it was partly due to you and being inspired by your story I myself purchased a sick boy, who is on the mend. I don't think he will ever swim perfectly but if I had of left him in the store he would have had a death sentence.

After doing a search for treatment for stubborn fin rot I found this, I don't know if you will want to do it, but I thought I would post it, it sounds similar to your circumstances.
http://www.bettatalk.com/answer30.htm


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im sorry to hear about Drifter . It might be possible that he has permanent damage somewhere. I hope he gets better poor guy


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## Setangha (Jan 16, 2014)

*Good news and bad news*



beautiful Betta said:


> I am so sorry to hear you are having so many troubles it was partly due to you and being inspired by your story I myself purchased a sick boy, who is on the mend. I don't think he will ever swim perfectly but if I had of left him in the store he would have had a death sentence.
> 
> After doing a search for treatment for stubborn fin rot I found this, I don't know if you will want to do it, but I thought I would post it, it sounds similar to your circumstances.
> http://www.bettatalk.com/answer30.htm


This is quite late, but thank you so much for that link! I ended up having to resort to the methods on that page (not a fun experience for Grump and me) twice and give him a round of antibiotics to even make a dent in the fin rot. It's been about 2 weeks since the second time. I'm not sure if it's _completely gone_ yet, but it doesn't look like it's getting _worse_ anymore. There are a couple of spots I'm a little concerned about, but overall things seem stable.

His anal fin may be recovering now -- last time I checked, it looked more crowntail and less fin rot. Just trying to keep his water squeaky clean at this point. Hopefully things are looking up!

He seems to be _feeling_ a lot better, in any case. And I hope your little rescue is too. :-D He's a lucky fish! 


Sadly, Drifter didn't improve despite my best efforts, and I had to euthanize him last week.  I gave him some extra time because I kept convincing myself he could get better if I could just figure out what was wrong, but he eventually reached a point where I had to accept that he was out of fight. There was just too much damage.

In the end, I felt guilty for not letting him go sooner. Next time I won't hold out so long, though I sincerely hope I'll never have to euthanize another one of my fish. I feel like a murderer.

I really wish I knew what triggered his relapse. He was in the best condition I'd ever seen him about 3 days prior. I walked into the room and caught him hovering (totally unassisted by plant leaves and such) a few inches above the tank bottom instead of on the surface. For a split second I thought he was dead, until I realized he'd be his usual floaty self if that were the case. He just stared at me until I reached for the food, then rocketed up for the grub like the porker he always wanted to be. :roll:

RIP/SIP Drifter. :sob:


I want to thank everyone who replied to this thread at any point with advice or encouragement. I don't believe he would have ever improved as much as he did without the guidance of the people on this forum. You guys are amazing, and I truly appreciate all the help you've offered over these last few months.


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## hubbley (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear that.  You really tried your best though, and that's what really counts.


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## BettaBeau (May 14, 2014)

I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for making his life the best it could be. We all appreciate your posts. 

SIP, Drifter.


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## Sabina88 (Aug 24, 2013)

Im so sorry to hear about that Setangha :-( 
I cant imagine how hard that was for you. But you are an amazing person for sticking with Drifter through all of this, a lot of people would have given up a long time ago. But you gave him a fighting chance and never gave up on him. Even though we wasn't able to get 100% better and stay with you im sure he is thankfull for all the love and care you gave him, you allowed him to keep fighting and living a lot longer then if he just sat at the store. 

SIP Drifter


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## documentryofmylittlefry (Aug 19, 2014)

You might of hurt him rather than help him.... buying animals from box stores encourages them to continue selling them, completely ignoring the fish is the best thing to do


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## documentryofmylittlefry (Aug 19, 2014)

But you are very kind to help sick fish, for u as an individual, I would say continue what you do


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## beautiful Betta (Sep 19, 2013)

So sorry to hear about Drifter. You did all you could and Drifter would have never had any form of happiness if it hadn't been for you. So just feel proud you gave him a few months of life he never would have had if left in the store.

SIP Drifter.

Wishing you all the best with the other boy fighting fin rot. Fingers crossed for him. Stay positive.


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## BettaLittleGirl (Jun 22, 2014)

Setangha said:


> And now for updates/pics/more questions! Here are the nameless rescues, in reverse order of when we picked them out:
> 
> *Rescue #3* _(SBD, who prompted this thread)_
> 
> ...


this may be kinda late and someone might have answered..but yes...bettas yawn, and it's funny seeing them yawn....My bettas do that..always..


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## countyrd419 (Apr 6, 2013)

Rusty, my betta fish, yawns too. I was told by an experience member that betta fishes do this to flush out their gills.


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