# Advanced Fin Rot. Please Help Me Save My Fish!



## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

I got Foster by way of my little sister's friend a little over a year and a half ago She was bored with him and trying to starve him to death, and no one else would take him. I've never been a fish person- too stressful; but I was under the impression that bettas are super simple, so I took him on. I put him in a 1.5 gallon tank with a filter and lid but no heater, fed him, changed his tank semi regularly and pretty much let him do his thing. Recently, he got really sluggish and lost his appetite, but I figured it was due to old age rather than disease. About a week ago, he swam past the front of the tank and I realized that I had somehow failed to notice as half of his tail disappeared. Starting tuesday, I started changing his water daily and dosing with AQ salt. I did this for five days, but because it's fairly advanced already, I switched him to Tetracycline on Sunday and stopped dosing with AQ salt. This is supposed to be his last day on the antibiotics, but I forgot to remove the carbon filter for the first few days, and now the water is only faintly tinted yellow and the black edges show no signs of going away. He's a lot more lively and his appetite is back, but I suspect that has more to do with his new heater than the medicine. Should I keep dosing him for a few more days? Try something else? or just stop with the medicine and keep cleaning the water? I'm trying to make up for a severe lack of knowledge in a very short time and this site has been helpful so far, but I'm still worried that my ignorance is going to kill him. Please help me out here. What else should I be doing?

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1.5 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 78(F)
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Aqueon Pellets. Bloodworms (freeze-dried)
How often do you feed your betta fish? Pellets twice a day in small amounts, with one meal skipped every few days. Bloodworms no more than twice a week. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? recently, every day. 
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25% (100% with the AQ salt)
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0-.25ppm
Nitrite: unknown
Nitrate: unknown
pH: unknown
Hardness: unknown
Alkalinity: unknwon

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? severe fin rot. Half his tail is gone. Both front fins affected. Black edges on tail, but not fins. 
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Sluggish, loss of appetite (both seem to now be better)
When did you start noticing the symptoms? a while ago. 
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? last tuesday (Dec 9th)
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? 2 years

Picture is a bit dark, but this is what's going on with him: http://s5.postimg.org/o6ya7oltz/IMG_0689.jpg


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hi Samantha,
Sorry we missed your post, I'm running out the door trying to get to work but I'll get the ball rolling for you. Here is some treatment info from lilnaugrim's Fin-Rot vs. Fin Biting thread to hold you over until the cavalry gets here!

...Now Fin Rot is different, fin rot happens because water quality declines and an infection sets in the fins. This is a bacterial infection that can infect any fish but fish that live in smaller environments that aren't properly cared for are more susceptible to getting this rot. This will not happen overnight and you will notice a steady decrease in finnage. Fin rot is not only black but comes in a variety of coloration, black is the more common one seen on mostly blue fish from simply the coloration. White, orange, red and yellow fish tend to see reddened edges like they are sore and they recede. And then the fin will look dead and no longer healthy.
Fin rot can set in from the result of fin biting but it doesn't have to have fin biting to set in.

Treatment: in most cases you only need to do a few things to help your Betta fight off the infection. First off is to improve your water quality, do frequent water changes through the week to help balance out electrolytes and promote the fish to fight off the infection. A high quality diet will also help out*. Warm, clean water is ideal and if you can get a tannins source that will also help stop the infection.
Many people believe that Aquarium Salt is the key to fighting off the infection; this is indeed false and doesn't do what most people believe it does. What aquarium salt does is balance out electrolytes which is a nice thing but not necessary, and secondly it aggravates the slime coat. This is why when you use AQ salt you often will notice a stringy substance coming off your fish, this is extra slime coat he has produced and is now shedding the old coat he had as the new one comes in. This is effective for helping to get rid of Ich, the old slime coat knocks off the parasite which helps to kill off the parasite.
You will notice that in the two major things that salt does, it does not cure fin rot. What it does do is it can sterilize an open wound. This is helpful when your fish does bite his fins; this creates an open wound on the fin for a day or so until it closes up. Fin Rot is not an open wound, think of it as a nasty scab, you wouldn't pour salt on a scab since it doesn't do anything! Now if you opened that scab, then you can use a saline solution to keep it clean until it heals.
So in most cases of fin rot you can; do frequent water changes, use a tannin source for antibacterial properties and make sure his water is warm (80-84*F).

In very bad cases of fin rot medications will be needed, skip the salt and head right for an antibacterial medication such as Triple Sulfa, Erythromycin, Tetracycline, General Cure or KanaPlex. KanaPlex is the best to get if the fin rot is aggressive, you may use a combination of medications but further diagnosis will be needed to tell that. 

The OP can be found here,
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=346377

Hang in there!


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

Thanks Mike! The link was helpful, and I'll look into the tannin sources. I'm hoping the tetracycline does the trick, but I'll certainly look into KanaPlex if the infection proves stubborn.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Here's my 2 cents Samantha,

You need to be doing 100% water changes everyday until this gets licked. Be sure to cup him & re-acclimate him every time.

I would switch your water conditioner to Seachem Prime. Add 2 drops per gallon when you condition your water and 1 drop per gallon a day to keep the ammonia build up in check. Poor water conditions are most likely the cause of the fin-rot. Prime can lock-up the harmful ammonia for 48 hours until you can do a water change.

You will need a test kit. I would recommend getting an API Master Test Kit. This way you can accurately keep track of your water parameters

Raise the temperature to 80-82°.

As far as medication goes, you can do better than Tetracycline. Erythromycin or Kanaplex would be best.

I recommend a source of tannin. This can be found in Indian Almond leaves or Rooibos tea. 
You can read about the benefits here,
http://bettafishawarenessday.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-mircale-plant-indian-almond-leaf.html

You can find them on ebay and now Petsmart in the Hermit crab section.
http://www.petsmart.com/supplies/habitat-decor/all-living-things-hermit-crab-catappa-leaf-zid36-15120/cat-36-catid-500027;pgid=fVFGcD0GnOtSRpHGKo0ohTag0000WUS8XsTr?_t=pfm%3Dsearch%26SearchTerm%3Dcatappa
If you choose ebay, just make sure you choose a seller that is based in the US or you might have to wait a while to get them, not to mention the expensive shipping costs from Asia.

In the meantime, you can use something called Rooibos tea. It can be found in any supermarket. I recommend the Twinings Brand, Pure Rooibos Red Tea. It's all natural and decaffeinated. Just place a bag in your tank for a few hours, that's it!.

I would suggest switching him to a high quality pellet like Omega One Betta Buffet or New Life Spectrum betta, community or surface feeder formula. The are high in protein and low on fillers. Freeze dried foods can cause bloating and constipation.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey Sam,
One more thing. I noticed that you didn't provide test results for PH. Tetracycline will be ineffective in a PH above 7.5. This might be why you are not seeing results. It can even be effected the hardness of your water. I would suggest switching him to Kanaplex or Erythromycin immediately.

This is why a test kit is important. It helps us help you.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Aq salt does not aggravate the slime coat. It helps the fish produce more slime coat. It kills the bacteria that causes the fins to rot. The change in salinity cause the bacterial cell to burst. It is the key to fighting fin rot not only with betta but other freshwater fish as well. It can be used in conjunction with other medications and often makes them more effective. I would add salt baths to the treatment plan myself. The initial cause of fin rot is high free ammonia which destroys the thin layer of slime coat on betta delicate fins, this allows the bacteria a food source. Methylene Blue dips can also be very useful in treating fin rot and are much easier on the fish than antibiotics, but also can be used in combination with them. The aq salt used at the recommended dose (1 tablespoon per 5 g) will often prevent fin rot from ever getting a foothold and provide the fish other benefits such as reducing stress and improved breathing. It will also reduce the toxicity of free ammonia and help a fish deal with nitrite exposure in the water. 

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/finrot.htm

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html

http://www.bettafishcenter.com/fin-rot-aquarium-salt.shtml

http://tropicalfishandaquariums.com/FishCare/FinRot.asp


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

I'm getting a test kit, the prime, better food and roobios today. There's no place around here to get Kanaplex so I ordered it- should be here in a few days. I'm not sure I can afford a heater, so I moved him to a warmer spot in the house- water isn't quite at 80, I'm working on a better solution for that. 

Thank you so much for your help. Hopefully with better information he can get healthy again.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

For the methalyne blue, I would give him a bath, not apply directly to fins right? I'm getting some links that suggest netting and apply directly to the fish and that sounds like a really good way to freak out or kill an already sick fish.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah I would just do a MB bath myself. However the direct application isn't that bad, the fish recover from the scare pretty quickly. Cheering for you!


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## jsgossamer (Oct 11, 2012)

My boy had bad fin rot recently. I used triple sulfa and AQ. Salt. Stopped the rot quickly. Fins are already growing back.


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## aurielssong (May 26, 2014)

this is what is going on with one of my boys, he got his tail caught in the filter guard


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

alright. Still waiting for the antibiotics to arrive- shipping's a mess right now. In the meantime I've been dosing with AQ salt and changing the water every day. I saw this floating in the water and I don't know what it's from. It's not a fin- he's not missing any new chunks, especially not this big. Should I be concerned?


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

I think it is a piece of slime coat that was shed. Not a bad thing at all.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

okay, new question (maybe it should be a new thread, but it's the same sick fish, so I'm posting here). Foster seems to be having trouble staying horizontal when not actively swimming. his tail floats up above his head and its freaky. what's going on here? Is the new behavior related to the fin rot?


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

*I should mention: He's floating head down at the bottom of the tank, not head up at the top. He's got no problem staying horizontal when he's up at the top.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Sounds like he could have swim bladder disorder or SBD. It is not related to the fin issues he's been having.

A 2-3 day fast and the dietary changes I recommended will help him out.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

I made the dietary changes and fasted him for three days, as recommended. He's still swimming funny. It's almost like without the tail, he doesn't have enough weight on the back end to keep himself level. Video shows what I mean pretty well. http://http://youtu.be/8gHxVV6itBU


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

http://youtu.be/8gHxVV6itBU 

Sorry, this is the proper link


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

http://youtu.be/8gHxVV6itBU one more try. Sorry, this is on my phone. http://youtu.be/8gHxVV6itBU


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Change your water atleast 50% DAILY!!! make sure the water is close to the same temp as the fish's water, I had body and fin rot did Malflex and AQ Salt once daily after my water change and im happy to say she is fastly improving! Again Water change Daily! Keeps the light off place a towel on the tank and keep heat in!! Avoid any stress!! If you need more help please email me!


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Yeah Sam, it looks like SBD.
Lilnaugrim recently posted a thread on SBD with lots of great information and treatment options.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=5394434#post5394434


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

Thank you ASmith. I do the daily water changes, and I've been dosing with Kanaplex. I'm hoping this will do the trick. I didn't known to keep the light off- I'll start doing that. Hopefully he'll start to recover soon.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

Will the antibiotics I'm using for the fin rot (Kanaplex- kanacymine being the acitve ingredient) treat any bacterial infections causing the and as well? He's pooping, and not swelled, so it doesn't seem like a constipation problem.


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

I didnt use Kanaplex all I used was AQ Salt and Malaflex did daily water changes 50% Put a towel on her to help keep heat in and light out and she has improved in 2 days!! I am sooo thankful her fin rot/body rot was so bad it looked like someone came along and took a chunk out of her belly! So if in a couple days its not getting better please use AQ Salt and Malaflex! I sware by it now! and daily water changes!


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## ASmith1985 (May 12, 2014)

Also turn your filter off!! After a couple days when you see improvment turn it bk on to cycle without the carbon filter. If its SBD your fish would have a round pregnant looking belly


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

ASmith1985 said:


> Also turn your filter off!! After a couple days when you see improvment turn it bk on to cycle without the carbon filter. If its SBD your fish would have a round pregnant looking belly


If you are using activated carbon then yes, you should turn your filter off it will neutralize the effects of medication. Or you can just remove the carbon.

If it is swim bladder _disease _it is most likely bacterial and it should be treated with antibiotics, Kanaplex would be your best choice. A round belly is not always an indication of SBD. A tummy that is swollen will parasites or fluids can put pressure on the swim bladder. The Kanaplex will also help with the fin-rot.

Melafix can be fatal on some fish species such as bettas, paradise fish & gouramis as the oil can clog gills and obstruct breathing and irreversibly damage the labyrinth organ. 

Has he ever shown signs of SBD before? I'm wondering if the aquarium salts are causing him to retain fluids and are effecting his swim bladder.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

The difficulty swimming down has been recent- within the past week or. so, and would roughly correspond to when I began adding aquarium salt to the tank again. (I stopped while I was dosing with tetracycline, and began again when was waiting for the Kanaplex to arrive because I feltlike it was better than nothing.)


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

*i haven't been putting salt in the tank since the Kanaplex came on Thursday, but the difficulty swimming down has persisted


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

update: still treating with kanaplex and methylene blue baths. Fin rot is being stubborn- it's not really moving up the fin, but it won't go away. Not sure what did it, but I woke up this morning to see him lounging very comfortably at middle depth, so whatever buoyancy issues he's been having seem to be resolved.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey Sam,
Have you given any thought to using Indian almond leaves or rooibos tea for the fin-rot like I mentioned in the beginning? To me it seems like the one thing that is missing in your treatment. You can use it with medication, it won't have a adverse effect.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

i'm having trouble finding either, and honestly they slipped my mind after the first few days. I'll take another stab at the supermarkets tomorrow, and order them online if that proves fruitless.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

Found the rooibos today, all the sources I can find suggest just adding a teabag to the water, is that right?

Also, the black edges are noticeably disappearing, between the methylene baths and kanaplex, but I'm wondering if it's safe to extend treatment a bit on the antibiotics in the interest of making sure it's all the way gone? treatment's supposed to end in two days (for the kanaplex) and I'm a little nervous about taking him off of it if the black edges aren't gone by then. I'd still be giving the baths and adding the rooibos regardless.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Yes, just place a teabag in his water for a few hours. Repeat every couple of days after you change his water.

I think if you keep the water quality & temperature up and continue with the tannins he will be OK. We can't keep him on medication forever.


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## samanthariviere (Dec 19, 2014)

update: Foster's fin rot is gone, and regrowth around all fins has been coming in very quickly- I even found him starting a little bubble nest in the corner this morning. There's still the chance of a relapse, but I'm hoping that with continued diligence, recovery will be swift and smooth. I can't thank everyone who posted here enough for their help. Without your advice, this likely would have gone very differently.


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