# Norman!



## Elsewhere

So I had a little screw up in the Betta picture place and accidentally put in a picture of Norman, the 6 day old kitten I'll be getting. But that reminded me that I wanted to put pics up of him anyways XD So, here he is!










































These were taken when he was a day old and he's already so much bigger! His eyes are already starting to open, the only one in the litter so far! I'll put more pics up tomorrow when I go visit him


----------



## Karebear13

so cute! saw in your other post! just had to see more pics! Did you name him norman from Norman Bates?


----------



## Elsewhere

Yes, actually  Everyone I speak to gives me this weird look XD See, my other cat's name is August Rush, or August, as that was my favourite character at the time... My mother and I have gotten into Norman Bates in the new TV show and I had been really interested in him after watching Psycho. We thought it would be ironic to name him that, as Freddie Highmore plays August Rush AND Norman Bates 

Plus, I could see him one day sitting in a windowsill (Really fat for some reason) with my other cat, just casually, and his name would be Norman  Sorry for going on. I'm just so excited!!! One week old tomorrow!


----------



## Elsewhere

Day seven, eyes are open!!! SOOO EXCITED! He's the only one!!


----------



## Crowntails

Adorable!!!!


----------



## Artemis

Awhhwwww


----------



## Indigo Betta

Awww, these pictures are just so darn cute ♥


----------



## Elsewhere

More tomorrow, and I'll bring in some of his brothers and sister!


----------



## Agility4fun

So cute! Are some calico colored?


----------



## Elsewhere

Yup, there's one Calico girl, looks just like the mum! Sorry for the delay, the owner wasn't home until after I left to babysit 

Little Suzanne:








































Spiderman:
































Survivor:








Penguin:
















Norman:

























Sorry for the pic overload...


----------



## wildbettalover

So adorable wish I had him your so lucky


----------



## Agility4fun

OMG...that cream puff is so adorable!!


----------



## Elsewhere

All of them now have eyes open at nine days! Gaah, I'm so excited! They're getting adventurous and EXTREMELY vocal! XD Mum is getting angry at me, as I can't stop picking Norman up LOL She just sits there, growling at me as I stroke him


----------



## Karebear13

Elsewhere said:


> Yes, actually  Everyone I speak to gives me this weird look XD See, my other cat's name is August Rush, or August, as that was my favourite character at the time... My mother and I have gotten into Norman Bates in the new TV show and I had been really interested in him after watching Psycho. We thought it would be ironic to name him that, as Freddie Highmore plays August Rush AND Norman Bates
> 
> Plus, I could see him one day sitting in a windowsill (Really fat for some reason) with my other cat, just casually, and his name would be Norman  Sorry for going on. I'm just so excited!!! One week old tomorrow!


I have been watching that show too! and I love August Rush that is really creative!


----------



## TwilightNite

Awww! So cute! You gotta love itty bitty kittens <3


----------



## Viva

Soooooooo cuuuute!! I wish I knew my kitties at such a young age. And his name is awesome


----------



## Elsewhere

Aw, thanks guys! Day 11 and I may or may not have gone out and bought him a crap load of stuff because everything was on sale >.> Lets just say he has like three cans of food and a huge bag of Whiskas Kitten stuff XD Among a looooot of toys 

And here's a way for friends and family to think about this- I am naming Norman (regardless of gender, we have decided) but I could have named him Hannibal like my goldfish  I am a little bit too obsessed with Hannibal Lecter right now... *Casually looks at book collection, remembers all the movies and videos she watched and looks at the TV show about him taped* >.>


----------



## Artemis

No such thing as kitten pic overload! What type are they or are they American Shorthairs AKA mutts?


----------



## Elsewhere

Yes, pretty much- all mutts, but two have the colour type of Calico and two Tabby


----------



## Elsewhere

I am SOOO excited! 15 days old and Norman took his first real steps! God, I feel like an obsessed mother... XD


----------



## White Wolf

What, no pictures of Norman ?


----------



## sunstar93

Congrats on the new kitty!! Little mutts are the best  I have a tortie we found when she was 6 months old...no doubt the craziest cat I've ever had lol. I hope you enjoy your new kitty while he's still small!! Haha


----------



## Elsewhere

Haha, I've been thinking the same thing with the no pictures- I'll give you guys some more Friday, I've only had enough time to walk in and out before going to babysitting IF the owner is home  She happens to not be tonight  I'll try for tomorrow, but Friday at the latest!

Yes, I love the mutts! My August is also one and so is my dog, Daisy


----------



## Artemis

Mutts are great, I have 3 mutt dogs, 3 mutt cats, and I'm pretty sire 9 mutt bettas but at least 1 for sure.


----------



## Elsewhere

Here are some pics!


























































He is so feisty!


----------



## Artemis

And wittle!


----------



## Elsewhere

Actually, he seems HUGE now! When he was born he was about the size of my camera case! He only lets me hold him if he's pressed to my chest and I stroke his head XD Not ideal picture shots!


----------



## Elsewhere

So yesterday all of the kittens decided that fighting was the coolest thing ever and I got some pretty adorable shots... Norman was walking too, but soon decided that was too mainstream and just used his front paws, looking like a seal! Gah! Too cute! I'll try and get more today! Oh, and I get him at seven weeks on the long weekend in May. Yes, it's early, but the owner has four kids. And they're already stepping on the kittens! She's also going away the whole weekend and wants to take her cats, but can't take all those kittens, so she's giving them out the day before she leaves 

YES! I just found out this video actually uploaded! 
http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/hkr1/media/039_zps76a264e9.mp4.html

Pictures:


----------



## Artemis

He's so cute! So is that little calico girl (I assume)


----------



## Elsewhere

These are from yesterday, I might be able to update today as well 

Here is a video of Norman walking:
http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/hkr1/media/002-5_zpsd96f3d81.mp4.html

And some more pics:


----------



## Artemis

Is that momma in the back? She's very purrty. Lol bad pun


----------



## isochronism

Norman is awfully cute!!!! I am more of a dog type, tho the two cats given to me I certainly enjoyed and loved throughout their years... even tho they were cats.  My last (young) cat came to the family with my old dog. (rescue APBT) I then brought in new 10 mo. old rescue pup (APBT) even with great pedigree!!  Young prime kitty runs out from under sofa to show who's boss and swats in her face and back under. No responce... she goes stage 2 where her claws get caught in pups side face... kitty again retreats back under sofa. She thinks "this dog is different". Dog thinks "this is a fun home"  No cats were hurt. They loved each other forever!!!
Cat learned to respect.  Is Normans last name "Bates" HA


----------



## Elsewhere

NICE pun! Haha! Yes, that's her- the "addicted teen mom" as we call her. She's "addicted" to canned food and only about a year and a half old, haha. The owner feels so bad about her having them, but hey, nothing can be done now! Mama's getting fixed as soon as all the kittens are gone 

Yes, I too am more of a dog person, but I do LOVE kittens. Not cats- kittens. Once they hit a year old my mum loves them 

Here are some pics from today, one showing my face which has never been seen on this site (for good reason!)


----------



## Tigersoul101

OMG!!! He's so squee!!! I wish my foster kittens were that young! It's been a while since I've had foster kittens that young... They're so adorable at that age!


----------



## Elsewhere

Oh I KNOW! He's just so cute! Today he was mewing like NUTS, so his owner picked him up by the scruff and BAM! He was paralyzed or something, I don't know! I tried it and snapped a pick, but we only held him for maybe a second each, so no worries.


----------



## Tigersoul101

What happened to Nomran was normal. When you pick cats up by the scruff, they freeze. It was by instinct so that when a mother cat would try to move the kits/cubs to a new den in the wild they wouldn't move. The kit shouldn't be harmed if you did it right. I shadowed a week at my foster agency vet office, and they did it with the feisty cats all the time. Although when he gets older, you shouldn't do it often unless you _really_ have to.


----------



## Karebear13

ahh I love kittens they are adorable!


----------



## Elsewhere

Oh good, I'm glad it doesn't hurt him! I've had to do it with my current cat when he HAD to be bathed- he jumped out of the tub and was biting me like nuts. He just stared at me evilly and I dried him and all was well LOL

Going over there soon to see him again  I always ask the owner if I bother her, but when I'm there I distract the kids so she's cool with it XD I have to babysit for them soon anyways


----------



## Tigersoul101

Yeah, I only do it when trying to brake up fights between my two 'kings of the house'. 

Aww! I wish I could babysit kittens. Right now I'm fostering two brothers who are about 10 months old. Although they're considered unadoptable , so we're waiting for spots to open for the shelter where our adoption agency house unadoptables.


----------



## Elsewhere

Oh, I meant the kids, not the kitties! But it's kind of both 

Here are some pics, they're kinda bad because they had their drapes closed (it's POURING here) and there's only a small lamp in the room.


----------



## Artemis

Who's daddy?


----------



## Elsewhere

Well there's "step-daddy" Ali, they're other cat, but the bio dad left poor Suzanne all alone with these kitties. She got out and roamed for a day, so we have no clue  But they certainly are cute!


----------



## Tigersoul101

Oh, sorry...

I like the last picture! It looks like norman is waving goodbye, or saying hello...


----------



## Elsewhere

GUESS WHO HAS HIS FIRST 3 TEETH?!?!


----------



## Viva

Omg hes so precious! Look at those wittle teefs!


----------



## Elsewhere

More pics! Sorry they're fuzzy... He had his first dry food today, and mama is getting angry with them and is starting the weaning process... I have confirmed an appointment for shots and he'll be neutered and declawed at 6 months


----------



## Elsewhere

The owner has converted her downstairs bathroom into their new living area, with the door blocked and the shower closed off. Now plumbing or anything on the floor and everything is kitten proof- plus there's only a teeny bit of carpet, unlike the rest of the basement  They are having a BLAST down there!

Here's a video:
http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/hkr1/media/034_zps8a0bdfb2.mp4.html


----------



## Viva

I love how theyre all different colors/patterns!


----------



## Artemis

Don't declaw! Are you fully informed? They have their bones broken and removed to remove the nail. They can't walk for weeks and have their paws taped up to keep them from getting the wound dirty. Get these instead, they are SO much nicer and cuter like painted nails but also cheaper. http://www.softclaws.com/index.php?pet=cat


----------



## Elsewhere

Sorry, but it's my mum's condition. And they can walk- we got my August declawed and he was prancing and running an hour after e was home. He only had those little taped boots on for two days. I know people say it's horrible, but in all honesty, thinking about all of those cats out there that are feral and unloved, is declawing really that awful? It's really the safest thing I can do, so he doesn't hurt my dogs or my cat, since August wouldn't be able to defend himself. Plus, he'll only be an indoor cat. I know exactly what happens in the procedure and I have had a lengthy conversation with the vet. She assures me that it will be exactly like what happened with my other cat.


----------



## Artemis

Why not the soft claws? The fact is that it is banned in UK, West Hollywood, and some Asian countries.


> A study of 163 cats that underwent onychectomy, published in the Jul/Aug 1994 Journal of Veterinary Surgery, showed that 50% suffered from immediate postoperative complications, such as pain, hemorrhage, and lameness; and long-term complications including prolonged lameness, were found in nearly 20% of the 121 cats who were followed up in the study.
> In a study published in the January 2001 JAVMA, 33% of 39 cats that underwent onychectomy developed at least one behavior change immediately after surgery, with the most common problems being litter box problems and biting.


The cat's have problems using the litter box and often need very very fine sand so as not to hurt their paws. They bite because they know that they are not equipped for defense with their weapon of choice so use their next weapon which is even more likely for infection they scratches. It's not good and it is like removing your first knuckle.


----------



## Elsewhere

Every cat we have had in my house has been declawed. There have never been any complications whatsoever and no litter box issues except after the surgery when we use the kind that doesn't get in the wound. All of the cats we have had have never bitten (except August when I hold him for too long, he only meows when in pain) and I know all of this. This is happening and cannot be changed, as I don't want to tell my mum that I don't want him to be declawed and lose him to a home that will be horrible. I know exactly who will be swooping in and taking him if I don't, and that home will be awful.

Let me absolutely blunt and perfectly clear: Norman will be declawed. It is not illegal in Canada and not up for debate on this site. I am aware of "complications" that have never happened at the vet I am going to. They have been declawing for over 20 years and I have searched for months to find the best of the best, including extra assistance in the operating room. You _will not_ change my mind on this.


----------



## bettacrazygirl86

May I ask why, exactly, you want to declaw him? You know the possible results and all the complications, and what exactly is going to happen to him, so why do you want to put him through that?

Not all cats are the same, so the new kitten may not be so gentle, especially because he is a kitten and doesn't really know better when it comes to biting. When cats are declawed, their claws can't be used as defense, so they use their teeth. Cat bites are more likely get infected than scratches, and they hurt more. My first cat was declawed, and I have plenty of scars to show how he used his teeth, since he didn't have his claws. My last cat, we didn't declaw. I clipped his claws, and he never once made me bleed when he scratched me, his sister, or my dog. Cats and dogs have very tough skin, and they can't easily be hurt by cat claws if they're playing. If the kitten means to harm them, he will, but it won't be bad enough to actually hurt them. Just enough to make them back off, if he's scared. I really doubt a little kitten can beat up a dog or another older cat badly enough to have to be declawed. There are plenty of alternatives, like the soft paws claw tips, and simply trimming their claws.


----------



## SerenaRena

So cute! Congratz on getting a kitty! They're awesome pets


----------



## Artemis

Why are you so against the nail caps?
They are WAY cheaper. Declawing can go up to 200 in Ontario. The nail caps are about 20 and you can put them on your self or get them put on by a groomer or vet. 

I have been around 5 declawed cats in my life. Every single one had problems that is (in my mind and many experts) the cause of declawing. They are often shy and if not shy they are biters, hissers, and 2/5 are/were just plain aggressive. 4 have litter problems. 

Why do you think the other home is bad? Why are you so certain? If they don't declaw it could be better for the cat. I don't get why you know the risks vs no real reward and still choose to harm him.


----------



## TwilightNite

Congrats on getting your cute little kitty! 

Going along with the declawing thing..... I think that is a personal decision to be made by the kitty's family. The only time I would say absolutely not is if your cat is allowed to be outside a lot. If your cat is going to an indoor cat, that is your decision but if your cat is allowed to go outside I advise highly against it. I'm not really for decalwing, but if it was up to me I would not declaw my cats but it is a personal decision for the family of the cat.


----------



## Viva

Poor Norman, he'll never be able to stretch his muscles/tendons that are connected to his claws ever again  That is why cats stretch and claw at chairs and sofas and things. Idk my cats haven't destroyed a single thing since I've gotten them and both have claws. Theyre indoor cats and we live in a 2 room apartment. I really just don't understand the reasoning behind it. Why not just get a small dog? Nevermind, I don't want to see any toothless dogs running around.


----------



## Elsewhere

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously kidding me? Why are you even trying to debate me on this? IT IS NOT MY CHOICE. If I want another cat, he will need to me declawed. I put pictures on here for others to see, and I get this crap! This is honestly unacceptable to me and you are ALL making me feel like a bad pet owner for following my own mother's instructions. THIS IS NOT YOUR CHOICE! You cannot change this and I have explained why I am doing this! He will be happy and healthy and loved. Is that not good enough for ANY of you? The owner is 100% FINE with it and he will NEVER go outside. This is NOT for debate. End of story.

I would say sorry for being rude, but I AM NOT. I will no longer be posting on this thread.


----------



## bettacrazygirl86

I simply asked why you plan on doing it. I managed to convince my mother not to declaw our cats, and I'm sure if you went about it the right way, you could too.


----------



## Artemis

Have you even tried talking to your mom? Why are you so sure that something bad is going to happen? Here is site from a vet's view on the procedure. She gives tips that will help your cat have less trauma if you chose to do this even though it's rarely recommended. 
http://www.suevet.com/declawing_debate.html 

Is your vet doing the laser method? She recommends it as the best as it numbs the nerves. If you are going through with it, make sure you do it right. 

Why does your mom want him declawed? Is it over furniture getting ruined. If you care more about a couch then a cats well being you shouldn't own any pets.


----------



## Olympia

Artemis said:


> Don't declaw! Are you fully informed? They have their bones broken and removed to remove the nail. They can't walk for weeks and have their paws taped up to keep them from getting the wound dirty. Get these instead, they are SO much nicer and cuter like painted nails but also cheaper. Welcome to SoftClaws for Cats


I worked at a vet's office, these are EXTREMELY uncomfortable for cats, they can't retract their claws with these on, which makes walking permanently uncomfortable.
Not to mention cats like eating these. 
Cheap marketing scheme that pulls at the owner's heartstrings and in the end harms the animal.

I would see if you can declaw him with laser surgery, it's a lot prettier than the traditional way (since I've assisted with both methods). It will probably cost a little more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Elsewhere

I apologize. I overreacted earlier. We had a long conversation the night that she said I could get Norman about declawing, and both decided that with the right vet it is the best option. My reasons for declawing:

1. Yes, furniture scratching. I don't care at all, but you need to understand that it isn't my furniture and that my mother doesn't care for the animals in the house- I do.
2. Injuring other animals is an issue for me, as my cat is declawed and my dogs wouldn't hurt a baby animal like a kitten. I don't want them getting hurt.
3. He will only be indoors, so it's not like he'll go outside and get himself killed.

I have painstakingly chosen the vet I am taking him to. I have spoken with tens of people who say she is the best vet within range for hours. I have personally spoken with her over the phone about her techniques and exactly what will happen in the operating room. I looked at your link, Artemis, and I believe that she does the second option, but may be introducing lazer in her practice.

I hate how much controversy this is causing for you people, but I am not rushing into this. I am not a new owner with a cat and this is not my first rodeo. I promise you all that he will be fine and if something just happens to go wrong, it will be dealt with in the best way possible. 

Can we please stop this? It is really getting to me in case you haven't noticed in my break down above.


----------



## Artemis

I would personally go with lazer or find a vet who can. I have seen cats with nail caps and _if they are put on at a young age_ they don't have problems. If you get them on when the cats are about 2 months they are usually fine IMO/IME. 

Lazer is best as it keeps the nerves from feeling pain until the thing that would cause the pain is gone. I'd ask around for a vet who could do it that way.


----------



## Elsewhere

Artemis said:


> Why not the soft claws? The fact is that it is banned in UK, West Hollywood, and some Asian countries.
> 
> A study of 163 cats that underwent onychectomy, published in the Jul/Aug 1994 Journal of Veterinary Surgery, showed that 50% suffered from immediate postoperative complications, such as pain, hemorrhage, and lameness; and long-term complications including prolonged lameness, were found in nearly 20% of the 121 cats who were followed up in the study.
> In a study published in the January 2001 JAVMA, 33% of 39 cats that underwent onychectomy developed at least one behavior change immediately after surgery, with the most common problems being litter box problems and biting.
> 
> The cat's have problems using the litter box and often need very very fine sand so as not to hurt their paws. They bite because they know that they are not equipped for defense with their weapon of choice so use their next weapon which is even more likely for infection they scratches. It's not good and it is like removing your first knuckle.


Just saying, that study was in 1994. Twenty years ago. I am quite sure these things have become much safer.

And I looked constantly for lazer- I live in a tiny rural community. There is not much going on here and I extremely lucky to find the woman I did. She may not do lazer, but I trust her entirely.


----------



## Artemis

I reread your post and I'm just wondering why you think he would hurt the animals


----------



## Elsewhere

When I first got August and introduced him to my dog, he scratched her clean across her face and almost bit one of her moles off at another time. Now they somewhat get along, but the whole time he had his claws she would innocently sniff him and he would just spazz... Now he spazzes but can't hurt either of my dogs. Norman seems to be quite a bit like August when we first got him, and I just worry about their safety.


----------



## Artemis

If you introduce him right it won't be a problem. Let them meet through a baby gate or screen. Jackson Galaxy has a lot of good info and videos on his Youtube channel. Here's his take on declawing:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_7oTlocGSw and his channel with tips for everyone:https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCatDaddy66/videos?view=0


----------



## Elsewhere

They met through a baby gate for a couple of days. He then went out to greet her. The same thing will happen to Norman, but since August can jump baby gates, they'll meet with August on a halter and leash.

I am saying this one last time, and it will be the last time. You need to stop trying to talk me out of this, which is very stupid of you, as I am probably twice as stubborn as you and your "convincing" will not change my mind. This is not a place for you to try and force me not to make my own decisions on an animal that I have a great love for and don't even OWN yet. I repeat: STOP THIS. 

I made this thread to show pictures of a cute kitten, not to be harassed.


----------



## Artemis

I wasn't trying to talk you out of it that time honest. I haven't seen the video I saw he had a declaw video and decided to link it that's it. I'm voicing my opionion and that is that you are not sounding like the cat would have a happy life. It can't fully stretch, is likely to be miserable after the surgery and you aren't taking the proper steps to help even if you did do the surgery and are stubborn to any other option. Any other option such as caps or trimming the claws, option that are nicer. However they are also options that require less money and less risk. But the problem that I feel like you have with them is _work_. They require effort on your part and you don't like that


----------



## Olympia

You've been warned multiple times. Please stop on this topic immediately.. 
Thank you..

Elsewhere; if you want this thread cleaned out of argument just let me know..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Elsewhere

You think that because of a simple surgery performed every day that a cat cannot be happy? Would you like to tell that to my 5 year old adopted cat that is declawed and happier than ever, and trust me, he is happy. What are you even talking about, not taking proper steps! I don't even HAVE Norman yet and look at this mess! How _dare_ you say that about me. You have no idea how much I love my animals. I am quite certain when I say that you will never hear a single thing about Norman ever again, Artemis. No more updates or pictures of him, nothing. You are opposed to any other opinion that is not your own and I feel bad that you can't open your eyes. You cannot seem to comprehend what I have been saying, and I am damn sick of saying it.

**EDIT: I posted after you Olympia, I apologize. I won't be posting here anymore.


----------



## Viva

Don't let me or anyone else's opinions upset you, sorry I was so rude earlier. The only thing that gets me mad in life is people harming animals, but I clearly see you have done your research and mean no harm to Norman. And about not posting here anymore, don't worry, I was once warned and had my thread deleted here for saying quote, "I want to punch her [my cat] in the face right now." People are basically way too outspoken on the internet, and apparently way too sensitive as well.


----------

