# Red HM x Red PK



## dcg

Male: HM, mostly red, unknown age, unknown breeder.









Female: PK red, unknown age, unknown breeder.









Introduced: 29 January 2016.









Spawned: 30 January 2016

















Shy girl being shy. 









Hatched: never. The eggs simply weren't there after a while.


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## dcg

Here is the second attempt.

Female no. 2: PK red, unknown age, unknown breeder. She is the female used with the red veiltail male a few days earlier. She laid eggs but no fries hatched. She is an egg eater too. I chose her because she is the redest of them all.









Introduced: 31 January 2016
Spawned: never

Boy, sure thing, there was no love lost between those two. They mainly ignored each other. I took her out on 3 February 2016. I'm running low on suitable females. Moving on to third attempt.


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## dcg

Third attempt.

Female no. 3: PK red, unknown age, unknown breeder. She is a more pale kind of red. She is the last available red female so better perform. Last call.









Introduced: 4 February 2016.

















Spawned: 4 February 2016. Dang! That was fast.  Naughty little female went out.

Male moving eggs around.









Eggs seen from above.


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## dcg

Third time's a charm, but not for this bad boy. He seems to enjoy only the mating part of my breeding program. I found him wandering around. I checked the nest. No eggs.









What a bummer. Lights out.


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## liamthen

indeed a bummer !! such a nice pair


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## dcg

Fock it. Lights on. It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Step 1: destroy that fungused sorry excuse for a nest.
Step 2: change water.









Step 3 (6 February 2016): introduce the first female that spawned with him a week ago. She is an experienced breeder now, isn't she?  Studio wedding photo. 









7 February 2016: the stallion did his special number again.

























Like the first time they spawned, they were confused about the white polystyrene their tank was standing on. They were insisting to collect eggs that weren't there, or failing to see eggs under their noses.

So here we go again.









He is not an egg eater. He fathered 120+ fries 3 month ago. Still, the question bothers me. Should I take him out? Should I keep him in? Decisions, decisions.


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## TigressBetta

Try giving a 2 week period rest instead of breeding him all the time


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## dcg

Bear with me. One day a walked into a pet shop to witness an unusual sight. Several males, labeled "double tail / delta" in tinny opaque cups. I bought 5 of them, the rest were too shredded and in really bad shape, like totally missing dorsal and so on.

Only after installing them, I could evaluate the situation. 2 halfmoons, 2 feather tails, 1 spoon head halfmoon. First two went to breeding tanks with delta tail females. He is one of those two. One of the last 3 males was just melting under my eyes, after 2 months of being just fine. Near about 100 young males bread by me fought like 3 waves of velvet and not a single one died. 1 of the last 3 was sold along with 3 young males bread by me. Guess who made 2 successful spawns and who died. Last of the 3 males, the spoon head, was (re)sold as a pet but I don't know his whereabouts. I know that he was on his way south, losing mass.

Back to the fist 2 males. See their story here. Three month later, the irid (blue) one is clearly not on his prime. I planned to breed him to one of his daughters to improve the form. He didn't build a nest. I used a son of him to do the job. Then the daughter came to him, head down, trying to mate. He couldn't embrace her, in spite of her trying hard. 


























Do you begin to suspect old age? I think I'm running out of time. He is an adorable fish, but he has valuable genes, and I do plan to breed him to his best daughter. I will power grow his fries and in 7 weeks time, hoping he's still interested, to mate him with a nice female. Do note that he is the only known (by me) long finned halfmoon in my country. How about this for an objective?

That being said, I think he had enjoyed his time, multiple mating and carrying for no fry. I cannot see any eggs, but he is guarding something. Taking him out for rest now is not an option. Let him spread his genes.


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## dcg

It's a home run.  Hatched: 9 February 2016.









Age zero days fry.









Not too many of them, though...

So the fat lady has sung. Two more days and she will be sleeping in his own bed.


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## dcg

Age 1 day. 

Father still going strong. 









Being so few of them, I'm expecting a period of complete hide out, after the fries leave the nest.

Also, I was chasing two rabbits there: form and color. I'll maybe forced to drop the color. :\


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## dcg

10 February 2016: fry swimming horizontally, father removed.


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## dcg

Age 3 days.


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## dcg

There so few fry that I look mostly at an empty tank. This is borderline scary. I have no material to update this log, but I'm sure that fry are fine. Both of them.


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## Catthebetta

I hope your few live to adulthood, so it's worth the efforts. Do you know why there are only a few?


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## dcg

I think the dad eat most of the fry sometime between hatching and entering the free swimming stage. I asked him why but he was mute like a fish.


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## dcg

No significant update, but here they are the new little brothers age minus 2 days. I should take out the male when fry, if they hatch, are 24 hours old, before the free swimming stage. I think that's the time the male enters culling mode.

















Note to myself: spawned 14 February 2016, not surprising, being Valentine's Day.


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## dcg

Eaten: 14 February 2016. I think he missed one.










I'm beyond pissed.


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## trilobite

Aw no :-( Sorry about the troubles youre having with him :evil: Hes evil!!


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## dcg

Talking about frustration, I'm also working with this irid halfmoon, trying to breed him to his superdelta daughters. I think he is old, so I used one of his sons to build nests for him (and also prelude the girls).

So here is girl no. 1, a royal blue daughter.









Here is girl no. 2, a metallic daughter.









It may look promising, but he just couldn't embrace. Both times. Maybe he is getting too old for this she*t.  Imagine watching them trying to embrace about 5 hours and fail about 1 billion times. So no progress formwise for me in irid department this round.

Back to red hm business, at least I'm looking at 1 (one) red fry hunting happily BS and looking full belly and fine. I hope it is a she, so a can breed her back to her infernal father. Looking at the bright side, the selection process will be easy and fast. )) I'm also watching that lone egg. Tomorrow I will isolate it into a spoon. Something like that.









If it hatches, me and the red hm are in for a long talk about sons of a beaches eating fertile eggs.


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## dcg

Age 6 days.

Meet the lonely fry, who is happily hunting live artemia. I wonder what kind of personality will develop, growing all alone, not competing, not knowing how a betta looks like.


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## dcg

The Robinson fry, age 8 days. There are not two, not zero, but one single fry. What are the chances for this to happen?


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## Catthebetta

I don't know but he's cute... and bigger then my 2 week old fry? I'm crazy, maybe they need to be fed more ._.

Hopefully will grow up to be gorgeous, with all that food to him/herself!


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## dcg

Look at my other fry that are also 2 weeks old: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=653002&page=3#post7082634

They are like another species, and I'm not talking only about size, but also the form is quite different.


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## Catthebetta

I'm definitely doing something wrong then, my fry are just now starting to look like little fish...


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## kittenfish

I don't think it's you Cat, I've never seen anyone grow fry as fast as dcg! Well, maybe the Thai breeders.

If you want to make sure he doesn't eat the eggs, you can just scoop the nest right out as soon as spawning is finished. I use a plastic tupperware.


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## dcg

> you can just scoop the nest right out as soon as spawning is finished


I kept an eye on the egg that he left uneaten. It didn't hatch so maybe he knows was he's doing. That's not white and black answer to the matter thought, because the egg fell from the nest overnight. If the single egg he missed would have been hatched, I could know for sure he is a episodic egg eater and convince myself to stole his future nests. 

But I really don't grasp the logic of this: him embracing, eggs falling, how can *all* eggs miss his semen? Or he's taking human like decisions.... "about 25 percent fertile eggs, hmm, fock it, not many enough, I will just eat them all and use my saved time to look for another girl"?


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## dcg

Age 10 days (1 week + 3 days).


















He is not alone after all. There is also a runt that cannot swim (never made it to the free swimming stage). I thought he is dead by now but he is still hanging on (barely).

















Edit: I'm fed up with this bull****.


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## dcg

Age 11 days (1 week + 4 days).










We have an early contender to the betta fail picture contest, if there is one.









Note to self: do use a heater in the spawn tank. For best results, connect it to the electricity socket.


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## liamthen

DCG use a grow hack  lol


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## dcg

Age 13 days (1 week + 6 days).

First horizontal stripes on the lonely fry...


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## dcg

Age 2 weeks.

Being the only option and being shy make it quite hard to photo.


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## dcg

Age 15 days (2 weeks + 1 day).

The lonely fry not being so shy.


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## dcg

Age 16 days (2 weeks + 2 days).


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## dcg

Age 17 days (2 weeks + 3 days).

He or she is large enough but still doesn't acknowledge frozen artemia as food.


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## dcg

Age 18 days (2 weeks + 4 days).


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## dcg

Age 19 days (2 weeks + 5 days). Still cannot convince him to eat frozen food, he just doesn't get it.


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## dcg

Age 20 days (2 weeks + 6 days).










Than I used the flash to expose irid.









Hmm...


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## dcg

Age 3 weeks.

Lonely fry is full of frozen goodies.


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## dcg

Age 22 days (3 weeks + 1 day).









Cool picture of the ninja fry.


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## dcg

Age 23 days (3 weeks + 2 days).

Caught in the act.


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## liamthen

I am trying your method soon, i want my fry have size like that in 2 weeks ++, if they can hit that size i will have less hard time finding live daphnias ,and then switch to pellets / DIY foods for them, or just buy live tubifex if they are picky


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## dcg

All my fry are on adult food as we speak, some of them being under 3 weeks mark. No cutting in lesser pieces needed also. I just put food in there, as I do with their parents. I still have some live BS, but I will spent it soon and durring this weekend my airpomps will go SILENT. 

This lonely one is funny to feed. In about 5 seconds he is so full that he sinks like an axe to the bottom.  It takes more time to find him in the tank than the actual feeding.


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## liamthen

dcg said:


> All my fry are on adult food as we speak, some of them being under 3 weeks mark. No cutting in lesser pieces needed also. I just put food in there, as I do with their parents. I still have some live BS, but I will spent it soon and durring this weekend my airpomps will go SILENT.
> 
> This lonely one is funny to feed. In about 5 seconds he is so full that he sinks like an axe to the bottom.  It takes more time to find him in the tank than the actual feeding.


I would say her :twisted:


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## dcg

I see what you did there. ) Being only one fry does drag things into human registry. And I hope it is a girl. 

Age 24 days (3 weeks + 3 days).


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## kittenfish

Do your fry ever choke on food that's too big, or is it just mine that are dumb enough to attempt to eat things the size of their entire bodies? I can't give mine frozen brine shrimp because the little ones will kill themselves trying to eat like their bigger siblings. Had the same problem when I started feeding grindal worms a little too early. It's a good thing I have 200 of the little dummies.


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## dcg

I never witnessed fry choking. They either eat it or not. Most of the time they will eat it, shredding food apart if there is no way around it. Do note that frozen brine shrimp is quite soft.


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## dcg

liamthen said:


> I would say her :twisted:


Wanna bet? :lol: My money says it is a he. 

Age 25 days (3 weeks + 4 days).


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## Shidohari

he/she looks like they have swim bladder. is that because they're still growing up.

also they're very pretty good job.


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## trilobite

He looks very happy in there all by himself!


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## SusieG

I just read three this log, so cute to have just one little guy!! And BTw you crack me up lol almost every post is interesting!


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## liamthen

dcg said:


> Wanna bet? :lol: My money says it is a he.
> 
> Age 25 days (3 weeks + 4 days).



errr, that tummy look make me hesitate lol


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## dcg

trilobite said:


> He looks very happy in there all by himself!


Happy and safe.  He's jarred since birth. 

SusieG, thank you! Bonus picture for you, catus fry 9 days old. One sleeps with his tongue out. 










liamthen, did I heard tummy? Here's a tummy. 

Age 26 days (3 weeks + 5 days).







http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=237585


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## dcg

His father is living up his old age. He doesn't look in his prime at all.  So the lonely fry can be a male, he has to fill his father shoes.


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## SusieG

Haha I love your catus fry! Will you be adding any longhair to one of these F1 for your next spawn? Maybe a marble longhair lmao!!!


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## dcg

I don't know, because the catus female is the lead of the cat breeding program. She does the males selection. Between you and me, I think she just selects them all. :lol:


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## SusieG

omg lol


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## Aqua Aurora

dcg said:


> SusieG, thank you! Bonus picture for you, catus fry 9 days old. One sleeps with his tongue out.


OMg so cute! I wouldn't be able to resist poking that lil' tongue


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## dcg

Then they will hissss and try to spit you. And if you insist on bothering them, they will start the alarm and the mother will promptly come meowing till you bleed dry.  There is no fooling around this raptors, be afraid. 

Catus fry 11 days old. The one to the right can hypnotize you with his sharp eyes.


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## dcg

Age 27 days (3 weeks + 6 days).


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## dcg

Age 4 weeks.


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## dcg

liamthen said:


> errr, that tummy look make me hesitate lol


But her "egg spot" makes you hesitate further? 

Age 29 days (4 weeks + 1 day).


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## kittenfish

I keep coming back to this thread to look at your kitty pics. I love those little needle claws! Oh, and nice fishy too.


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## dcg

For the fist part of your nick the catus fry opened his eyes.


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## dcg

Age 30 days (4 weeks + 2 days).

Being a girl I should train her to be a capable sorority member. I moved her into 26 days old red fry tank. She seems to enjoy herself in there. 

















You can easily guess who is who.


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## kittenfish

dcg said:


> For the fist part of your nick the catus fry opened his eyes.


Oh my god are you trying to kill me ;_;


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## dcg

Nah, that's me killing you. 

2 weeks old.


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## dcg

Age 31 days (4 weeks + 3 days).


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## dcg

Age 32 days (4 weeks + 4 days).


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## alecmerkel

This thread made me feel good inside!!! Very entertaining watching the lone survivor thrive.

Great fish keeping as well. I can think of many that would have lost the fry. BTW you could tell she was a girl all along.

Should be ready to mate with papa soon. Think he's got another one left in him? He does look like his pension should be kicking in soon.


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## dcg

Unfortunately the papa is not doing well, he barely moves. He only gets out from shade to eat and after that he goes back to sleep. I cannot pinpoint any obvious illness, he is just weak and pale. He had fun at the end of his life but I think the reason he kept on eating eggs and fry was simply old age. Carrying for offspring is tedious and he was not having it. So the former lonely fry was his last statement to this word. 

Age 33 days (4 weeks + 5 days). She's doing great.


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## dcg

Age 34 days (4 weeks + 6 days).










Life is not always roses. Here she's being sucker punched. It means he likes you.


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## dcg

Age 36 days (5 weeks + 1 day).

Before measuring session. Almost no stripes, weird colors, orange-brown-pinkish, and nice balance.









Lonely fry and the princess ruler.









Now jump on it.









It's better.









Back to the tank and back to the camouflage stripes.









I like her.


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## alecmerkel

Looks like a inch 1/2. That's great!!! Can't wait for her colors to fill in


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## dcg

Let's see.











Full length 3.6 cm (1.42 inches)
Body length: 2.9 cm (1.14 inches) 

Wayne Schmidt's betta fry growth chart (backed up by Victoria Stark) says she should be way smaller: http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/bettagrowth.html



> Five weeks old: 0.6 inches long. Size ranges from .5 to .75 inches.


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## alecmerkel

How big was the tank she grew in? I assume 10g. I'm pretty sure having a 10g all to yourself plus no competition for food makes for one healthy fish! 

Great job!! Like I said before I'm really impressed with how you managed to keep her alive.


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## dcg

52 fry, age 5 weeks, 80cm long tank, theoretical tank capacity 120 liters -> spawn log.









129 fry, age 5 weeks, 80cm long tank, theoretical tank capacity 120 liters -> spawn log.









134 fry, age 5 weeks, 80cm long tank, theoretical tank capacity 120 liters -> spawn log.









37 fry, age between 5 and 6 weeks (I don' remember exactly), 80cm long tank, theoretical tank capacity 120 liters (no spawn log).









Tank capacity is only a factor, an important one, but just one out of many. 



alecmerkel said:


> Great job!! Like I said before I'm really impressed with how you managed to keep her alive.


I know, I actually think this is the nicest thing I have ever read about a spawn log. ))



alecmerkel said:


> This thread made me feel good inside!!!


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## liamthen

i really need that skill to grow fry fast!!


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## dcg

Age 37 days (5 weeks + 2 days).

That dorsal looks like stolen from another fish. 

















As of today I noticed she is bulled by the red cousin girls quite a lot. Not always a rule, but more often than not she attracts bites and pushes when she enters a red cloud of girls. That's why she keeps away and eats after the rest of reds are full. That's how I can make pictures where she looks like being alone.


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## alecmerkel

Awww I'm starting to feel bad for her now lol. She doies like kind sad in that picture rather than angry (most bettas look angry to me which usually means they are happy )


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## kittenfish

What's your tap water like, and do you add anything to it?


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## alecmerkel

Yes, please give us some details and secrets!

Feeding schedule and what type of food? I knew a breeder that would make his own food with beef heart. He would mix in spirilina, garlic ect. He is on youtube as well.


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## dcg

kittenfish said:


> What's your tap water like, and do you add anything to it?


The water is whatever city company is providing. That's Bucharest, Romania. I let it age at least 36-48 hours before using it. I'm not adding anything to it.



alecmerkel said:


> Yes, please give us some details and secrets!


Some months ago, a hobbyist bought a male and two females from my own stock. He showed me pictures of his fry that he was rising and they were extremely stunted, like having horizontal stripes at age 3 months. I said fck that, do it like I'm doing it. So he mimicked my way as much as he could. We discussed on daily bases, exchanging pictures with fry development on facebook because he was from another city so we couldn't visit. He bred a pair from my A3 generation and a female from my A2 generation with a male of his own. The two pairs bred like champs, so he had two spawns going. The funny thing is that he was keeping a thermometer in the middle of the front glass of the grow out tanks. I didn't asked him why, but soon I found that he was using the thermometer as a thing to relate on when judging the size of the fry, because I used the exact same thermometers in my grow out tanks. We called the thermometer the weighing tool. He was comparing this fry with pictures I sent to him. The pictures were from this thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=622530

He was using same food, same tactics, same water changing schedule as me. Somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks of his fry age, we had to admit that his fry were trailing behind. I remember it being a bitter moment, the kind of "fck that, I'm dropping it dead, do you want 100 fry, cause I'm going to take the train to give it to you for free". On the bright side, his fry were nowhere near his previous stunted fry. To make the long story short, soon he was selling young bettas to his local pet shop stores a while later. 

A picture of his fry.









That being said, I will copy/paste my methods, because I have been inquired before about them. But till I find it, don't miss the movie of a 4 weeks and 6 days old fry building a nest.  Here is it: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=653002&page=10#post7203066


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## kittenfish

...So pretty much you are using some kind of voodoo magic?

I mean, I don't mind the slower growth rate of my fry, I like watching them grow. It's just scientific curiosity since yours is unlike anything I've ever seen. I wonder how fast they grow in the wild?


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## dcg

kittenfish said:


> ...So pretty much you are using some kind of voodoo magic?


Rule number 1: lots of clean water.
Rule number 2: lots of food.
Rule number 3: lots of voodoo magic err... love.

Let me explain rule no. 3.

You can see the measurement of 5 weeks old red fry 10 days ahead (first picture): http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=653170&page=8#post7197954
They were about 3.5 cm or 1.37 inches long when they were 5 weeks old. Today the younger "little bothers" are celebrating 5 week of age also. They were loved more because they were less bent spines, deeper red and there were also males (only 4 of them though) that elder siblings were missing completely.

Let's see how little brothers fared.

First, the male named Big Red. Are you ready? 
















4.1 cm or 1.65 inches. 

Again, the Big Red.
















The measurement stands.

If you think the females are shy of that you are in for a surprise.

















4 cm or 1.62 inches I would say.

They are bigger that their step sisters. + 0.5 cm or 0.2 inches. Some conditions, same grow out tank (same capacity, same brand), same father. Hmm, can you give a better explanation?


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## kittenfish

Hey, are you implying that I don't love my fish?


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## dcg

Yes, I'm a bit playing with ya, guilty as charged. 

That's the environment the lonely fry has to endure. She comes out from hiding at 0:55, from bottom left. Those red girls are fierce.


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## dcg

Age 38 days (5 weeks + 3 days).

The situation is getting complicated. The red cousins out competed and outgrown the lonely fry. At fist, when she was the biggest female, everything was fine. Not anymore.

Is challenging to take pictures of her without stress stripes. I could snap only one, zooming to find her in her corner.









When she enters the center, the feeding zone, that happens.








Instant attack, speeding to clear the zone, instant stress stripes.

I'm thinking of a solution. One is calling the lonely fry's step sister under arms.  She is a flamboyant slender trouble seeker that never backs down. She is the leading of my adult sorority dominating everybody, including her mom. She has what it takes to break the red party down. Other way of tackling things is simply to hand her the 80cm long tank that she was born in. I can do that for her.

The step sister. Don't be fooled by her appearance. She's taking no prisoners without a single hair being touched in the process. 











I can see some family resemblance. The super delta form, the stretched body and the anal matching the caudal. Not the spirit, unfortunately, that is a night and day difference.

Meanwhile, the old father hangs on and refuses to die. I provided for him a nice shady place. Believe it or not, he is still feeding, but it take lots of patience. Admin, please delete the pic if it is to hard to watch.


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## liamthen

dude, please breed giant :-D , it will be a big show for us with how you raise those fry size so quickly


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## dcg

Liam, pardon my french, but I love you. )) I'm tired of being hammered in that euro forum because I'm rising fry fast, like it is a capital sin or something. It is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo refreshing to read kind words in here. Keep them going, I need it. Don't miss my Big Red bubbling like crazy in the other spawn log.  Also, I hope you like my torpille step sister.


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## liamthen

hahaha, nothing wrong with raising fry fast, if you notice them, they are almost incessantly eat, until they literally can't swim and just float, but then when they swim again, guess what? they will eat again, its their nature, our human intervention in feeding give the best chance for them to have maximum growth rate. and what would they say when they talk about giants? giants need to hit 3,5 BO at 2 months, 4 BO at 3 months and 4,5-5 at 4 months to call them true giants, so i can imagine those true giants breeder would just do the same.

your method of rising fry looks simple but i bet its not what it seen, need perfect parameter and the hunch/gut to know when to stop and continue feeding, what water best to induce their appetite, and crazy feeding can make fry very prone to diseases,so it need a very strict discipline to do that, the task is just too hard, i tried that on my giant marble spawn, they grow some size but i give up after 2 weeks, it hurt my back changing water everyday sometime twice a day lol


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## dcg

liamthen said:


> hahaha, nothing wrong with raising fry fast, if you notice them, they are almost incessantly eat, until they literally can't swim and just float, but then when they swim again, guess what?


That's PRECISELY what happens, let me illustrate that.










Upstairs, floating reds with full bellies. Down stairs, the lonely fry, to cautious to enter the danger zone.  From that point, they will not eat for a while, any extra food will be ignored. So, the fry are not stupid eating themselves to death. To adults is another matter though. They will also not eat till they burst, but extra food will not be converted in extra growth like in fry case but into fat tissue. Fat tissue is a great tool that mother nature offered to betta, but in the wild. In our jars, with feeding schedule and little space, fat tissue is bad news. Of course, as you mentioned, there other matters that need to be kept in check. Unfortunately reasonable reasoning like that was met there with plain hate. Whatever.

Back to lonely girl.

Age 38 days. Entering the danger zone and paying for it. 









Age 39 days.









Age 40 days (5 weeks + 5 days).









If asked, what color should I say she has?


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## liamthen

my locals hobbyist call red cooper if its their own fish and want to sell it lol (cooper is a trending here), but i don't buy it hahaha


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## Olivia27

Isn't that just a red with BSE? I mean, she may look copper devil-ish in dim lighting (like your photo above), but I presume to create copper you gotta work with some metallics down the line.


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## dcg

The moment Liam replied I was riding the google image search finding she was spot on. The only debatable issue is if the lonely fry isn't more of an orange copper.

Google image for red bse betta.









Google image for copper red betta.









Do note the both parents have unknown genetics hidden in them but the father I suspect is a sibling of another male I bought same time with him yielded fry like this (age 17 days). 









See the metallic copper like glow?

At adulthood the "copper" fry proved to be metallic.


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## liamthen

yes just a sheen of metallic but not enough imo to be called cooper, cooper should be colored like this, a thicker metallic coverage,i steal this pic from FB, Ricky De Koto, he's prominent cooper breeder in my local, and in our country we have different standards for HMPK form, so please don't ask why the form looks like that :lol:

Last pic is my red cooper female, i have a spawn now with a cooper male which color similar to the upper solid cooper male, almost similar form too(crossing my finger, this is my first spawn of cooper  ) sorry dcg, not intended to hijack your thread lol.


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## dcg

Lol, you didn't, but I'll hijack it back anyway. 

Age 6 weeks and 1 day.

Brave girl.


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## SusieG

Getting sooooooo big!!!!


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## alecmerkel

There is some amazing purple on that cooper fem. she looks gorgeous!!! Do you think she'll breed true purple?

DCG what are those cubes you put in the water? Did you make your own brineshrimp cubes? I've been thinking of doing the same. Any advice?


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## trilobite

Yep Brave Girl is a red with copper irid, but she has the "natural irid spread" of bettas (shiny scales scattered across the body) instead of "spread irid" which covers the whole body with shiny scales (like what we see in blues)

Basically means that both parents had metallic irid, either metallic royal blue or steel. Likewise she will only pass on her copper irids if she is bred to another copper, metallic steel or metallic royal

Shes so cute, I love her!! :-D


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## dcg

SusieG said:


> Getting sooooooo big!!!!


Probably she is the biggest she can get, maybe fins will continue to grow a little. 



alecmerkel said:


> There is some amazing purple on that cooper fem. she looks gorgeous!!! Do you think she'll breed true purple?


It is a pity she didn't have several brothers to see how they would look like. Her daddy died too  so no male for her soon.



alecmerkel said:


> DCG what are those cubes you put in the water? Did you make your own brineshrimp cubes? I've been thinking of doing the same. Any advice?


It is frozen food I can find here in Bucharest in petshops. Some turkish manufacturer I think. I use the two in the middle of second row (artemia and mosquito red larvae).











trilobite said:


> Likewise she will only pass on her copper irids if she is bred to another copper, metallic steel or metallic royal
> 
> Shes so cute, I love her!! :grin:


So she will be more on the pale red spectrum than orange on her anal and caudal? About the dorsal I don't even dare to ask. 

Anyway, I took the notes.  I love her too.


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## dcg

alecmerkel said:


> Yes, please give us some details and secrets!


I feed anywhere from 3 times a day upwards, feeding them all day around in rainy weekends.







But the main goal is to make sure the fry always have food at their disposal, so they can snack whenever the feel like. This is easier to do when the fries are young and they are on live food, when they can happily swim along side artemia like good buddies (bad news for artemia though). When they are on frozen foods (around the 3 weeks old), I bombard them mercilessly with artemia and red mosquito larvae, that can stay no worries on the bare bottom for hours, being slowly processed into poo that, by the end of the day, will cover the tank's bottom. I also feed them dry foods. They are taking the flakes reluctantly, mainly for the sake of competition, but I think is important to teach them that dry food is also food because it may come in handy later into their lives. This smorgasbord style of feeding brings up another crucial mater: water changes.

When the fries can take on live artemia and the firsts orange bellies are on display, usually 2 days into the free swimming stage, I will begin changing water every day, mainly to clean the uneaten dead artemia that sticks on the bottom. I'll begin changing about 50% water, always adding more water then I take out, so the water column will keep on rising. As the fry grow older and put a bigger pressure on the environment, they will be subjected to deeper water changes, 75% being a nice number.







Occasionally they will get anniversary 100% water changes, but only when I'm moving them around (usually in bigger grow outs)... and they sure do love fresh starts.


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## liamthen

You're in romania right? I am tempted to send you one pair of my giant line lol. So you can pump the fry up to 5cm long body only in 3 months, but can't afford the shipping and transhipment fee yet hahaha, moreover idk if our transhipper here cover shipment to romania.


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