# Anyone focus on temperament when breeding?



## skepkat (Aug 23, 2012)

Just curious if temperament is taken into consideration when breeding? Specifically to create a less aggressive strain.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I consider temperament to determine breeding setup not creating certain character. I find it hard to get "good" daddies lately and fry becomes bad daddies as well.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Of course!! I actually found, with a very aggressive male he tore my female to bits... I had an aggressive female who did the same thing :/ I had an "ego" male, who was gentle, stayed with his free swimming fry, and had great results. I also find it hard to find "good" daddies. I look for "flirts" before "bullies"... Ones who wiggle and show off, more than flare and panic! :lol:


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## skepkat (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I find it interesting. Seems like these fish are a bit like popular dog breeds - with back yard breeders causing temperament problems. I would expect responsible breeders to consider form, health, & temperament before breeding.

Of course, dogs are easier to control fertility (spaying/neutering those that have undesirable genetics). I don't suppose you can tell people, don't breed this betta - slightly more offspring from betta than in a typical canine liter.


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## Maddybelle (Sep 29, 2012)

Yeah, dogs thankfully don't go around having 200 babies at a time!  I have definitely taken temperament into consideration for my upcoming spawn. These guys have come a long way from fighting fish: I believe that any overly aggressive fish shouldn't be bred. Wouldn't it be cool if, one day, we had bettas that could live together safely?


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

skepkat said:


> Thanks for the replies. I find it interesting. Seems like these fish are a bit like popular dog breeds - with back yard breeders causing temperament problems. I would expect responsible breeders to consider form, health, & temperament before breeding.
> 
> Of course, dogs are easier to control fertility (spaying/neutering those that have undesirable genetics). I don't suppose you can tell people, don't breed this betta - slightly more offspring from betta than in a typical canine liter.


Aggressiveness is considered to be a quality trait by many betta breeders.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Also aggressiveness seems to form a major part of courtship between many betta species. I wonder if you would have difficulty getting fish to spawn if they were more docile. 

I find aggressive fish tend to be more personable than schooling/prey fish. My various schooling fish had all the personality of a door knob, while my bettas each have their own individual personalities. 

I think it would be great to breed the edge off the aggression displayed by domesticated splendens so that at least males and females could live together without serious harm. However, I don't think removing it altogether would be improving on the species as a whole.


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## buddhauser (Aug 6, 2012)

Maddybelle said:


> Yeah, dogs thankfully don't go around having 200 babies at a time!  I have definitely taken temperament into consideration for my upcoming spawn. These guys have come a long way from fighting fish: I believe that any overly aggressive fish shouldn't be bred. Wouldn't it be cool if, one day, we had bettas that could live together safely?


But then that would defeat the whole purpose of the fish being its self. You'd be taking away its natural character. They are called fighting fish for a reason, very territorial in nature. Im not trying to be rude or anything, sorry if I come off that way. I like their aggressive nature, I think that is why I am so attracted to my little fishies lol


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## Maddybelle (Sep 29, 2012)

I think you all have very valid points, and I'm not one for boring schooling fish either.  
The way I see it is, kind of like with Pit Bulls. They started off being bred to be as aggressive as possible, but when dog fighting and bull baiting were outlawed people started breeding for sweet family dogs. The breed didn't become boring, just less likely to rip each other to bits. (I love Pitties!)
I've had less agressive bettas, not interested in flaring at all (still would never house them together) They had just as much personality as a "normal" betta, just calmer.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hopefully OFL sees this one.. Pretty sure breeding for temperament is how her males and females share a tank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I find however you cannot really breed a wuss puss of a male to a manly lady (I would know). Both have to have an approximate behaviour just to breed.

I would wonder however... Since the male has to get the female to submit to get her eggs if the aggression was bred out?

However I find "spazzy" males harder to breed than more mature calm ones


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Sena Hansler said:


> I find however you cannot really breed a wuss puss of a male to a manly lady (I would know). Both have to have an approximate behaviour just to breed.
> 
> *I would wonder however... Since the male has to get the female to submit to get her eggs if the aggression was bred out?*
> 
> However I find "spazzy" males harder to breed than more mature calm ones


Breeding instincts. The male doesn't have to be vicious .... btw, I differentiate aggressive to vicious. Aggressive will flare immediately but not necessarily attack. Viciousness is trying to kill the other. Some "chicken betta" can be very vicious while some aggressive betta can be very gentle.
IMO, though they are bred to be more docile, breeding instincts will kick in. 

Make sure both male and female are in breeding mood before you put them together. If either one isn't, it may lead to disaster.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have been working on this for about 10 years more or less and I have been successful in keeping large groups of males and females together long term in a 75gal NPT. Ages range from near 4 year olds to 3-4 months old.

Its a fine line you have to walk-you don't want the aggression lost-you want them to flare, show off and most important spawn-but still live peaceful together. The older males will square off at a younger or new male I add-but thats it...Flaring, squaring off a slap with his tail and then move on. I will see a younger male challenge an older male and once the big guy puffs up the little guy takes off...lol...No injuries, fins intact. 
I will find a nest in the back corner on occasion-but due to all the fish and the filter the fry don't survive-that I can tell...lol... I have seen some tiny Bettas in the tank that I don't remember adding-but I really doubt any survive more due to the guppies-but guppy fry do survive... so its possible.

I can remove them and isolate for days-to-months-then either add back to the tank or go to a spawning tank without any problems. In the beginning this was an issue. Once I removed a male-he couldn't go back to the tank and I had a few males too gentle and wouldn't spawn.

The one issue I do have with keeping them like this-Is that the males won't fin out. I have to isolate them for a couple of weeks to get the fins I want-then add them back to the tank.

Its pretty neat watching a group of long fin males swimming together, eating and chasing a female on occasion. Still have a long ways to go....


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## Maddybelle (Sep 29, 2012)

OFL, I saw an article on Betty Splendens about keeping the father with the fry in the growout tank. Does this really work/help? She was saying the same thing about how the males would have to be jarred to grow out their fins: the dad, being the alpha male, creates a hormone that limits fin development and aggression to cut down the competition from Jr.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I often leave daddy with fry. IME it reduces aggression. But not eliminate it. After a certain age they will still challenge each other. BUT this can only be done with known good fathers. 

I'm not sure about how an adult male could effect fin growth. All I know is that if the body is allowed to grow quickly, the fins will be "stunted" . But if you stunt body growth, fins will develop more. By jarring fry early, body growth is reduced thus giving better chance for fin growth.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have left the male long term with his offspring and I have also left the female long term for multi spawns-removing the fry as they grew. I have used 2 females to 1 male in my outside spawns. I have experimented with several different methods. It all depends on what you want and/or how important that spawn is to you.


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