# Cycling 2.5 gallon



## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Hello! I am new to the forums! I am only slightly new to fishkeeping. My father always had fish growing up and he taught me much but this is my first attempts setting up a 2.5 for myself. Since I can't request help from my father I've chosen to ask you lovely folk! 

So about my situation..
I am attempting to cycle a 2.5 gallon planted tank for some cherry shrimp and a betta. Yes I know these are the hardest to cycle due to surface space for the beneficial bacteria to grow on. I am familiar with the nitrogen cycle and how it should cycle. Ok so here's the deal.. As previously stated its a 2.5 gallon, planted tank. I have been checking the water regularly with a liquid testing. It has been cycling since the first of the year. All seemed to go as it should. Day 10.. ammonia at zero, with some nitrites showing. The nitrites increased slightly around day 11 and then all the sudden dropped to zero; ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates all zero. Around day 21 nitrites appeared again and the cycle seemed to be going all good. Eventually nitrates appeared and eventually got very high but all the while nitrites stayed very high as well. Ammonia zero to .25 . Then one day I tested the tank and nothing all three at zero again. Sigh =( I waited and a few days later, some nitrites and nitrates appeared but not much of either. And then two days later back to zero, all three. ???

Someone please help me figure what is going on inside that tank!! ALSO I have noticed little white dots swimming around. Could this be the interuption to my cycle? I can't see them in the water but when I look at the black part of the heater I can see them. At first I couldnt even tell if they were alive they are so tiny. They definitely are though. They swim around. 
I've never had a problem at all with the ammonia. Except during the first week and a half where it did get high, right before the nitrites showed up for the first time. The tank is kept at 78 degrees with a floating thermometer showing temps. The water is always clear. I have a java fern (growing babies from a couple leaves), hornwort, anubias nana, and a dwarf lily. All the plants are doing really well. I use an azoo palm filter with bio-media and a prefilter on the intake. The heater is a tetra heater I don't remember what kind. I have a coramax bulb set on an 8 hour timer for the plants. 

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!


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## Hadoken Kitty (Jan 24, 2013)

I believe that the problem lies within trying to cycle such a small tank. Most cycles can be very successful in 5 gallon and above, but a 2.5 seems like a bit of a stretch. I would just do weekly water changes instead of trying to push a cycle that will be restarted with your water changes anyways. Two 50% with gravel vac should be alright (this is keeping in mind your live plants).


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## VJM (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm glad you asked this, since I have the same question. Can't wait to see your outcome!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Your plants are effecting your cycle. Not only are you breeding bacteria to eat through ammonia and nitrites, but some of your plants are probably also eating ammonia and nitrates.. so this is why things are doing this. You can both stem and root plants, yes?

Once you see no ammonia or nitrites for 2 weeks, I would consider it cycled.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I will stock the tank already. you have enought plants to take up nutrients especially since you said the plants are doing well.
were you dosing ammonia to feed the cycle?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I applaud your efforts to cycle your smaller tank. This is ultimately best for your fish, in my opinion. 

Your cycle has crashed twice, it seems. Not unusual when dealing with low ammonia readings. What are you using as an ammonia source?

A few tips to speed things along:
---keep your ammonia >2.0ppm until you get nitrite and nitrate, then back off to <1.0ppm
---get your temperature up around 82*
---run your filter on high to increase aeration

Your tank isn't really cycled until you're producing nitrate, with ammonia and nitrite at 0.0ppm.

The hornwort is your only plant that eats enough ammonia to mean anything. Just keep it. In fact, getting more fast-growing stem plants like Wisteria, and floaters like watersprite or frogbit will enhance the safety of your tank once it's cycled, by preventing ammonia spikes and mini-cycles. Don't know if that dwarf lily is a fully-aquatic plant. Check the plant thread for more advice.

I forget what the little white dots are, but they're not dangerous.

Keep us apprised of your progress.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

^Hallyx, dwarf lilies are also pretty ravenous feeders


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks for the all quick responses! This has all been very helpful!

I had wondered if maybe the plants were affecting the cycle somehow.. My source of ammonia was a piece of shrimp wrapped in cheesecloth. It still see it in the corner of the tank but it seems to have disintergrated some now. I had thought of switching over to liquid ammonia to keep ammonia levels high since they dropped down and never rose again.

At one point my nitrates were very high in the tank but the nitrites were as well. It seems like once they start rising they don't ever go back down. They did drop a little eventually. I had thought maybe I was getting somewhere, when suddenly everything dropped to zero. Soo.. Should I add ammonia to get back up to 4ppm? And if so what would be the best way? another shrimp?

The dwarf lily I'm pretty sure is fully aquatic. Nuphar Stellata. I can only find little bits of info on it. The lily and the hornwort are doing the best.
I also have an anubias which has a new leaf and java fern which has babies.
Watersprite and wisteria were both some plants I had wanted to get but I wasn't sure if my lighting would be sufficient?

I tried looking up the little dots online but I have no idea what I'm looking for lol. They are so small! I'm glad they aren't dangerous. I won't worry about them then.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

aokashi said:


> ^Hallyx, dwarf lilies are also pretty ravenous feeders


Maybe I'm thinking of Peace lilies. Are these dwarf lilies fully submerged or are/can they be grown emmerged? I think I want some.

If your nitrite exceeded 5.0ppm that may have crashed your cycle. Pure ammonia from ACE hardware or Dr Tim's online is preferred over smelly rotting shrimp as an ammonia source. 

You might consider Dr Tim's One-and-Only or Tetra Safestart or ATM Colony. These contain the nitrifying bacteria you want. Of course patience is cheaper.

A cycled tank will always produce nitrate as an end product, so that's what you're going for. 

Y'know, Jess, if you get enough fast-growing plants in there, you won't have to even bother with the nitrogen cycle. Your plants will eat enough ammonia for a lightly stocked tank with just a Betta (and maybe a couple of shrimp).

You might ask about the little dots over in the "disease" section. There are folks there that know about that.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

I just read you have some live plants so those little white dots you are seeing could be newly hatched snails. Most live plants will come with snails or snail eggs and most the time the snails are pond snails. They are harmless but later on if you start getting to many of them and want to rid your tank of some there are ways to do that like putting a glass jar in your tank with a slice of cucumber in it and the snails will be all over it by the morning so you take the jar out and do away with the snails.


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## isochronism (Nov 24, 2012)

The white dots may be daphnia, sometimes called water fleas. I have a tank with tetras, danios, and rasboras and the daphnia are a great live food source. Good luck with your tank!!


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

The dwarf lily is growing fully submerged. It grows from a bulb. As far as growing them emerged I have no idea. They have pinkish looking arrowhead leaves. They are very beautiful. My favorite so far. Bout the only good site I can find on them: http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant, Dwarf Lily.htm

My nitrite definitely exceeded 5.0 ppm. I am using the API master test kit and it was off the charts! It seems like I always have high nitrites whenever they are there. How should I control that? More water changes?

I was thinking of doing the liquid ammonia like Hallyx suggested. I feel I have more control of the dosing rather then letting the shrimp rot. I have heard of Tetra Safestart but I am leery of buying things like that. Has anyone had any personal experience with it? 

I had nitrates appear twice. The first time it was small and then rose to very high and then dropped to zero. The second time it was just a little then back to zero. The first time the nitrites were amazingly high with no signs of stopping. The second time the nitrites were at .25 I got excited thinking it was going somewhere. But alas it dropped to zero as well. 

Someone else had suggested skipping the cycle due to my plants. Is this safe for the fish and shrimp? Can they survive like that? I always thought they needed the nitrates to survive. The ammonia is almost always at zero. I thought it was due to the cycle at work but now I'm not so sure.

As far as the white dots go I hope they aren't snails. I was worried about this. I HATE SNAILS lol. The plants have been in there the whole time (since Jan first) could it really be little baby snails? I hope not.

Thanks again guys.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

dwarf lilies can send out pads as well. IMO they're prettier with submersed leaves. to keep it growing submersed leaves, it's recommended that you cut any leaf that strays too close to the surface.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh, _those_ lilies. Reddish jobs that grow like crazy and send out pads. Dragon lilies, red lilies, etc. Love those. But I can't trust bulbs anymore; hit or miss for me. Got some Aponogeton that way, too.

Yeah, 5.0ppm nitrite can seriously slow bacteria growth. But the ammonia should start it again. Small tank can be problematical, or they can cycle smoothly as any larger tank. Many of us have done it, though, and I still recommend it.

As said, your alternative is becoming a plant person and maintaining a planted tank. I can't do that; so all I have are Anubias for topcover and mossballs for fun.

Fish and shrimp don't need nitrate to survive. Nothing does. Plants eat ammonia first (after converting it to ammonium), nitrite second and nitrate last. I suppose it's possible your Lily and Hornwort are eating it all. But I'd rather see the ammonia being cycled into nitrate. That's a cycle I could trust.

Member Karebear used Safestart successfully. I don't know how to search here, but there are others. I wish I could remember the name of the member who swears by Dr Tim's. 

Let me look. I'll be back


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Hey, Aokashi. Remember this one from last summer?

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/betta-fish-bowls-habitats-accessories/cycling-2-5-gallon-105761/


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Yes those lilies! They are quite lovely! I actually got mine living from the LFS. I couldn't resist. 

I have thought about having just a planted tank but I would really love a little fishy in there. =) that being said...

I would really like to get this tank to cycle. Its been my little project and I can get a bit obsessive lol. Im very patient so I can see this through one way or the other! At the moment I'm debating on whether or not to try to dose with pure ammonia or to try Safestart. I was thinking of just stocking the tank but I'd really like it to cycle! Im paranoid about it if i dont. Either way I decide I will keep you updated! I'll test the water when I'm off work tomorrow and post results. 

Thank you so much for all your help!

Edit: I forgot to mention the water fleas. How would I tell the difference between those and baby snails? Wait and see if they get any bigger?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Hey, Aokashi. Remember this one from last summer?
> 
> http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/betta-fish-bowls-habitats-accessories/cycling-2-5-gallon-105761/


yes, haha. I guess things come around like this all the time. though this time I qould say. Ofcourse it's possible to cycle a 2.5! since so many have done it since then... Like Lebron, Speaking of which, I wonder where the kid went 
you're a seasoned grasshopper now Hallyx 

@Jess- cyclops and other copepods will move around the water colum at a decent speed. They will also feed on the aquarium glass, but move around rather quickly. snails are slow and cant skip ans hop like the copepod critters.


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Well work has kept me busy.. 

After checking the water for a few days I decided to try the Tetra SafeStart. I put it in on the 22nd, along with a new betta. Followed all the instructions, shook very well at least for a couple minutes. Just checked the water (first time since I put it in) and it is at zero ammonia zero nitrite and zero nitrate. Only been three days so I dont know. I will just keep an eye on it.


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

JessJesting said:


> Well work has kept me busy..
> 
> After checking the water for a few days I decided to try the Tetra SafeStart. I put it in on the 22nd, along with a new betta. Followed all the instructions, shook very well at least for a couple minutes. Just checked the water (first time since I put it in) and it is at zero ammonia zero nitrite and zero nitrate. Only been three days so I dont know. I will just keep an eye on it.


I think you need 0 ammonia, nitrite and some nitrate to consider it as cycled.
all 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates is a common reading for fresh dechlorinated tap water reading IME.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Otterfun said:


> I think you need 0 ammonia, nitrite and some nitrate to consider it as cycled.
> all 0 for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates is a common reading for fresh dechlorinated tap water reading IME.


Not entirely true ... 0 nitrates are common when you have plants. Nitrates are plant food!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Three days is early yet. Next dose, put it right into your filter. 

Put a bead or a piece of gravel into your Safestart bottle. Turns it into a "rattle can" for better easier mixing.

You can do that to your #2 nitrate bottle, too.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

JessJesting said:


> I have heard of Tetra Safestart but I am leery of buying things like that. Has anyone had any personal experience with it?


I have! My sister had 5 fish in a 1.7gal tank( we were new to fish keeping), we took the water to test at Petsmart and everything was severely high. We bought a 5.5gal tank along with the small bottle of Safestart as they recommended. ($13, but VERY WORTH IT) We put all the old stuff in the new tank along with some new gravel and plants, then we put the fish in, and added the entire bottle of SafeStart like the instructions said. The next morning, Nitrates were at around 3.0 and ammonia and nitrites were 0!!! We have not had any spikes of ammonia or nitrites AT ALL! They have been 0 ever since. (been about 3 weeks now) Her fish are all happy and healthy too (Well, after we got rid of the mollies parasites, which we had to treat the entire tank just in case. The cycle was never affected amazingly)

Basically, the SafeStart cycled the tank overnight, lol.


Also I just read you bought it, you probably don't have nitrates because you didn't add the fish yet.  The plants are eating the nitrates. I think it's safe to say you're cycled!


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

tekkguy said:


> Not entirely true ... 0 nitrates are common when you have plants. Nitrates are plant food!


ok, thanks for clarifying. so you can have all three zeros in the test results?
Will 0 ammonia & nitrite and 10-20 nitrate mean I need more plants to take care of the nitrates?


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

So should I wait a few more days and see how it goes? Or buy another bottle?

Thanks for the tips. =) After I dumped it in I thought maybe I should have added it directly to the filter... Well now I know lol.


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## White Mage (Jan 31, 2013)

1 Bottle of SafeStart should be plenty. I think it's ok to add fish... You need ammonia in there to keep the bacteria alive, 1 rotting shrimp might not be enough. Especially with the plants eating ammo too.


Also I think it's better to put the SafeStart NOT in the filter, so it settles on the gravel/plants as well as getting sucked in the filter.


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Im worried because there isnt any ammonia in the tank it seems. I have the liquid test kit and it hardly changed any color.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

well usually with plants... having no ammonia in the tank is quite normal, lol
I see across the board zeros when testing my ammonia Nitrite and nitrates. XD


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

So wait your tank reads zeros all across too? Sooo should I even worry? lol Im just paranoid by nature. And I would feel awful it something happened to the little guy...


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Unless you see nitrate, you never really know if your tank is cycled. 

Most plants prefer ammonia first. They eat nitrate last. If you have enough plants, your nitrogen cycle will diminish and die from lack of food. You then have a NPT (natural planted tank).


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

The fish can survive in there, yes? If not, what should I do? =/

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your patience. Much appreciated.


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## tekkguy (Jan 28, 2013)

Otterfun said:


> ok, thanks for clarifying. so you can have all three zeros in the test results?
> Will 0 ammonia & nitrite and 10-20 nitrate mean I need more plants to take care of the nitrates?


Yes. My planted tanks have 0 across all tests when I run them. I don't even bother anymore unless I notice a problem.


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## JessJesting (Jan 16, 2013)

Ok I'm assuming that answers my question too. Thanks. =)


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

JessJesting said:


> The fish can survive in there, yes? If not, what should I do? =/
> 
> Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your patience. Much appreciated.


yes they can... I'd say test for another week. if you are getting all zeros and the plants are actively growing, I wouldn't worry about it anymore and begin stocking...
I have a few shrimps and twenty hitchhiker snails in a half gallon of water and plants thy I basically neglect... 

I usually dont stock my tanks woth anything but snails for the tfirst few weeks. I dont even change the water. I feed the snails to create ammonia? and always add a layer of substrate, not matter how thin. I find that this helps establish the tank faster. The water may or may not go throught a cloudy phase...when the plants are growing actively and the water is crystal clear...I know a system has been established. 

Same as tekkguy, I never test my established planted tanks. Infact I've overstocked profusely temporarily holding 5 small cories and four other small fish in my 2.5 gallon and the water remained perfect - Just trying to emphasize the capacity of a planted tank...definitely not recommending anyone to overstock. fish need their swimming space... lol.


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## Freyja (Jun 22, 2012)

aokashi said:


> yes, haha. I guess things come around like this all the time. though this time I qould say. Ofcourse it's possible to cycle a 2.5! since so many have done it since then... Like Lebron, Speaking of which, I wonder where the kid went
> you're a seasoned grasshopper now Hallyx
> 
> @Jess- cyclops and other copepods will move around the water colum at a decent speed. They will also feed on the aquarium glass, but move around rather quickly. snails are slow and cant skip ans hop like the copepod critters.


Lol that's my thread and may I say I have maintained a cycle in my 2.5g. I try not to do big WC so as not to cause big disruptions. I syphon my tank with a turkey baster. I have plants in the tank as well, which also help. I even cycled my 20g, which was pretty much insta-cycle thanks to seeded media in my filter cartridge from my lovely LFS and Seachem Stability for good measure. Don't give up on cycling your 2.5g because it can be done, and your fish and shrimp (sounds like a plate from the local seafood place) will thank you for it.


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