# NPT (natural planted tank) 55gal



## Oldfishlady

I tore down the 55gal NPT this week end and set it all back up again...NPT...soil based with pool filter sand cap

(_You can see the new 10gal NPT I setup last week in my album_)

Substrate-2in sifted dirt from my yard-Capped with half inch pool filter sand

Fluval C3 filter and heater set at 76F

Live stock-50 RCS (Red cherry shrimp) and the breeding pair of longfin-albino Bushynose plecos, 20 juvie Betta splendens, pond snails and trumpet snails

Hardscape-hickory wood-dried/cured from my forest, rocks from a recent trip

Lights-Daylight bulbs 2-40w-6500k on 12h/day photoperiod

Plants-Cabomba caroliniana, naja grass, water wisteria, Valliseneria, Sagittaria subulata and platyphylla, Rotala indica, Bronze cryptocoryne, hygrophilia, amazon sword...floating- water lettuce and java moss tied to the driftwood....

It took longer to tear it down than it took to set it up...lol

I add livestock the same day I set it up.

I don't rinse either the soil or the sand...I make back to back water changes before I plant and usually will make a third water change after I plant...usually 3-4 water changes total of 50-75%

These pics look cloudy-but it is the glare....looks clear in person....


























I will add more pics today-once I get the new bulbs on the tank....I bought new bulbs...but we had an accident.....cat knocked them over and they exploded....what a mess.....


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## darkangel216

That looks amazing OFL!

Also I was wondering how you keep the sand and soil from mixing together when you break the tank down like that?


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you......it turned out really nice- if I do say so myself.....and so did the 10gal I did last week.....
I have so many plants I needed to use and this 55gal had been taken over by java moss to the point that you couldn't see much else and I needed to catch all the BN plecos-had 30 offspring that ranged from half to 2 inches that I needed to get out/moved-really hard with all the moss.....lol.....

When I break them down....I don't worry about the dirt and sand mixing since I toss it...lol....well, it usually will be used in one of the flower bed or the garden...so its not wasted...

It is a muddy mess...lol....I will remove 95% of the old dirt/sand and water.....the muddy water all goes away once I add fresh, dry, sifted dirt-I then add water just to cover the soil-place most of the hardscape and then cap with the fresh dry sand-I like to start with dry sand-I don't rinse it-this works better for me-
Once I have my sand layer-I fill the tank with water-drain and repeat-
On the third fill, I only fill with water half way-Now I plant-Once planted-I drain again-refill...sometimes I may go ahead and do a 50% water change at this point too-depends on how cloudy it is....

My finial fill I try to fill with water at the temp I want the tank to be-
Turn on the filter and start adding the livestock after proper acclimation to the new chemistry of course...lol......and I may add a few more plants here and there-wipe off some of the air bubbles on the glass-shake the plants to get any bubble or sand off...etc.....

These pic are about 16 hours after I set it up

I will make 1-2 50% weekly water changes until I see new plant growth and then I will back off on water changes-this can vary-depends on plant growth and livestock behavior-
I will do spot testing using test strips for a quick look daily and full liquid reagent testing before water changes.....

Once mature and the soil has started its life underwater...water changes will be 3-4 yearly at best......The water changes on NPT soil based are limited by design....these are as close to a complete ecosystem that you can create in a closed system-but they do need some care...just limited...

No added ferts, CO2, low/mod light, easy care low tech...and lots of fun....
The biggest problem I have with my NPT-if you can call this a problem....massive/fast plant growth.....laffs.....

Great systems-but not for everyone-they do have their own set of problems.....

This NPT had been running for near 5 years before I decided to re-do it.....water prams on the day I broke it down was 0ppm on ammonia, nitrite, nitrate-due to the mass amount of plants-I rarely if ever have nitrate levels in my systems-this is not uncommon with heavy planted tanks....Live active growing plants are great biological filters....


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## Trobar

OFL, you are amazing!! That tank is fantastic!


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## roubidoux

What a beautiful tank! I bet your fishies are so happy!


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## Silverfang

ooooooh so nice! I really like it

although next time you get overgrown with java moss, send some my way, can't get any in this province


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## Oldfishlady

Thanks....

See if these look any better.....


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## Oldfishlady

*Update*

Updated photos


























Not the greatest pic....it is a lot clearer than the pic show...the lights cause the cloudy look


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## Kytkattin

How inspiring! I hope to have tanks like yours some day! Right now I am very limited on the number of gallons I can have... but I will potentially inherit a 240 gallon tank some day, if I have a place to put it!


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## Oldfishlady

Thanks......Laffs....right now in the house- I have over 1 ton of water sitting on the East side of my house-along with table and chairs-great place to have morning coffee and watch fish....better than TV....lol.......
I would love 240gal tank.....that would be awesome to setup in the house...I have a 250gal outside (it leaks) that I use in the warmer months and 150gal stock tank down at the corral that I use for grow out in the summer....not counting....anything that hold water has something aquatic-be it plants, fish, invert or culturing food for the fish.....not ready for cold weather....seems to come too fast and last too long....lol.....

Getting really good growth on the plants and have trimmed a few and had to thin out the water lettuce already....I added about 30 male guppies and 8 more young Bettas-the BN plecos are getting ready to spawn again-the RCS are multiplying and looking good-
Only had to make 2 water changes since setup-but I plan to make one today since I need to top it off anyway and it is nice outside so I can have the door open to drain in the yard without freezing...lol....

I am really liking the pool filter sand...this is the first time I have used it-usually use playsand to cap the dirt/soil-the pool filter sand is larger and brighter..I like that....now I am looking at my 75gal....the bronze crypts have taken over...still looks good....but it needs a change.....


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## 909

georgous tank. iv'e had planted tanks for several years now and can appreciate a tank thats nicely planted and maintained. not as easy as it seems. nicely done. love the whits pool sand. my next re-plant is going to be that sand as a base layer. are you using ferts and co2?


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## ChelseaK

Gorgeous! I don't know if you remember that I made a 10 gallon NPT attempt awhile back. I'm pleased to say that it is going strong, and you are right! The problem with them is the plants growing too fast! I love it though and I hope to set up another 10 gallon NPT just using clippings from this tank and with sand substrate rather than the gravel that I have in this one. Thanks for the inspiration OFL!


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## Myates

You definitely have an eye for making gorgeous tanks  Once again, I'm in awe when it comes to you.

Sounds like you put in a lot of effort to make it perfect, and it looks it.. I bet all your aquatic little ones are in heaven!
I have to agree, so much more fun watching their little worlds over some sitcom that's been over played.


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## Silverfang

It just looks amazing OFL. I'd be happy to have just a fraction of your green thumb.


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## Oldfishlady

Thanks....and 909....no added ferts or CO2 used other than what is naturally produced by the system itself from decomp and the livestock......the dirt layer that is under the sand is the main nutrient base for plants....near to a complete ecosystem that you can create in a glass box or closed system....


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## Alex09

Really nice! You were my source of inspiration when I set my my first NPT crypt tank a few months back and it's going great. Hope to have a large tank someday.

I hear that it stinks something awful when you tear down an NPT... True?


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## Captain Jim Dandy

Absolutely stunning and impressive.


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## Oldfishlady

I really expected it to stink a lot worse than it did since this was the tank that I had a lot of trouble with-I had used sand that I had harvested from one of my stock ponds to cap the soil layer and it caused massive silts and I had to add a layer of gravel to get it controlled....so the total substrate layer was well over 41/2 inch and you could see the anaerobic spots on the outer edges...but I kept it running for near 5 years without any health problems-I did have a few problems with rosette plants that would rot-the vals and sags I started with I had to replace and plant the new ones higher and a bout with BGA the first year...but other than that-no problems...well..except the silts did a number on the filter and that was off for about a year or so...but the naja, moss and hygrophilia grew in masses and non-stop BN pleco spawning......and this was with maybe....6-8 water changes over that 5 years it was running......by design they need limited water changes...you can't get away with this with regular substrate or just sand setups..... plants or not...the soil is alive and what helps to recycle DOC's along with the active growing plants.....

I really expected rotten egg smell that would knock your head off...but it didn't- a slight sulfur smell-more like the bottom of an over watered house plant and it must have not been too toxic because the next day I fished out a few more RCS..it took me 2 days to tear it down...lol.....makes me think twice about tearing the 75g down and starting over...lol......but I sure like the end result of the 55gal this time......

And then when I was getting ready to place the new light bulbs in the light strip.......disaster......a cat knocked the new bulbs over and they Exploded everywhere......what a mess...glass all over the place...had to stop what I was doing-clean the glass and vacuum the floor.........so I had to wait another day to replace the old light bulbs since its nearly 30 mile round trip to town.....

My marble crayfish loved it...they got a lot of the snails and unused plant pieces...lol.....


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## Bombalurina

That's an inspiration! What is that floating plant you use? I really want some.


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## copperarabian

thats so cool you have water lettuce, I really want to get some but it's illegal in California so it's hard to find  I saw some on sail on Craigslist but didn't jump at the chance since I didn't know how hard it would be to find.

Your aquariums are really inspiring, I finally got my 16g sorority to look similar to yours and I'm so proud of it


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## Oldfishlady

Bombalurina said:


> That's an inspiration! What is that floating plant you use? I really want some.


That is water lettuce...great floating plant some roots will grow near 6-8in long and this plant reproduces like mad.....I love it in fry tanks too....


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## ringo3632

So i'm looking to build a 10g tank like this. What would you recommend as a starting spot? i have filters, heaters, tanks, lights ect... i'm looking mainly to have plants and my betta in it. I've been researching different plants but I know very little over all about them.

My usual approach is to jump in after reading a little bit and figure it out from there, but i figured it wouldn't hurt to ask!

i'd eventually like to build one of my larger tanks up like this, but i want a little practice first..


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## Oldfishlady

A good starting point is...lights...often failures with planted tanks are due to the wrong light bulbs, too old light bulbs and the wrong photoperiod....

With NPT-good dirt is important since this is your nutrient base for the plants

The right plants-3-4 different species of stem plants, 2-3 different species of rosette type plants and floating plants to start out with...

When setting up a NPT it is important to start out with enough of the right plants.....the active plant growth is what keeps the livestock safe until the soil starts its life underwater....

Balance....


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## MoePaac

Tanks looking great as always OFL! I recently set up a 29 gallon... finally starting to see some good growth happening. I don't know about you, but I also get to a point where I notice how clear and good the water looks. I hit that point the other day...


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## acadialover

I would love to know what NPT means....
I'm also wondering where or what you use as soil for your bottom layer ?? 
what lighting do you have ? GOrgeous.


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you....usually mine are clear the first day...I rarely have cloudy problems...but I do on occasion especially in some of the unfilted NPTs

NPT-Natural planted tank....my soil is from the side of my hill in my pasture...black gold with a little sand and red clay added in this tank...I also use potting soil and top soil with a mix of kitty litter in a couple of the NPT's I keep

Lights are shop light from wal mart ($10.00) with 2-6500k 40w Daylight bulbs (2/$7.00) on a 12h/d-PP-light bulbs will be changed out every 12mo.-
I have the shop light hanging from a rod on hooks with chains so I can lower and raise the lights as needed


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## acadialover

Thanks so much for the info. YOu are obviously an expert and know waht you are doing ! wonderful


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## Oldfishlady

*Photo update*

Updated pic

















Plants growing like mad...have pinched most of the stems back and replanted-water lettuce roots are getting longer-I love that look and reproduced to the point that I can't keep up...lol...... and topped off with water a couple of times...no water changes...prams all at zero and most likely will be for at least a year or longer...often with heavy planted tanks you never get nitrate like you do with regular tanks....the plants use the ammonia first for food and you may not see conversion....water stay perfectly clear....

I have got to get a new camera....lol.....out of about 50 shot only 2 came out clear enough to see....but maybe its me...lol.....


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## upngo

I find it really hard to take _correct_ pictures with 6500K bulbs. My camera just doesnt seem to have the right white-balance/color-balance.
Nice tank.


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## ChelseaK

Looking lovely! Are these pants all from your own trimmings or did you purchase some from somewhere?


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## Oldfishlady

All trimming...I have only bought plants once...when I started my first planted tank about 7 years ago....


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## ChelseaK

Awesome!


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## Oldfishlady

*Updated Pic*

Time for some updated pic









This is the male BN pleco in the tank
















Tank is growing like mad....I have to make weekly trims and pull tons of the floating plants out

This is a pic of the 10gal I set up not long ago-it has really filled in


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## Oldfishlady

I was going to add....if you want to see more pic of the 10gal NPT to see how it has grown and how I set it up-that info can be found in my album.....I didn't realize how much it had filled in until I looked at those pics myself.....


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## eaglescout434

Nice tanks OFL!!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you....I love these systems...so easy to take care of and the fish behavior is amazing in the more natural systems.....
As close to a natural ecosystem that you can create in a closed system.....everything has a job of sorts....lol....


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## Bombalurina

It looks amazing, OFL! I kind of want to try one, but I have heard that they only work when lightly stocked, and I have never have the self-control to only stock lightly. Is that true? 
Also, is it ok to use aquarium sand over the dirt rather than play sand?


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you.....and on the sand, I don't see why aquarium sand wouldn't work-all the sand is for is to help keep the soil in place...

Stocking-a few of my tanks are pretty heavy stocked-but I have massive amounts of plants actively growing...just with this 55gal I have about 30+ male guppies and about 20 young Bettas, 2 BN plecos-to many to count RCS and snails....and this was all added the first week I set this tank up and have not had any deaths or issues....I also have a few tanks with just shrimp and snail.....


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## kfryman

OFL I am still amazed how you bred the males to live together! I think I could look at your tanks all day lol. Have you ever thought of selling trimmings that have been floating for a while so they have roots on Aquabid?


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## LittleBettas

LOVE IT!!!!
Im so jealous.... I can't wait to move out of my apartment so I can buy a 100 gallon.... I've just started the switch to live plants and Im already in love


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you...I have a buyer for every plant, fish and invert I can grow-thats what pays for my hobby.....


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## LittleBettas

And its no wonder, your fish and plants are GORGEOUS and obviously well cared for


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## Laki

Beautiful tank!! 
I have a q about plants and I don't want to hikack your thread, but since Lakitu passed I cleaned the tank and gravel and re-added back the plants. Now there's nothing in the water for the plants to "eat".. I was wondering what I can add (not fish/shrimp etc) to help stabilize the water? I want to add Bowser to it in a couple days.


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you,
Since you plan to add a Betta soon-the byproducts produced from the fish as well as normal decomp from the plants themselves will provide some food for the plants and then you have fish food which is a great source of plant food.
Since plants are alive they also will provide a source of food for the biological filter- and in filtered tanks with live plants can make the fish-in cycling process easier and safer in some cases-this of course depends on the number, species and growth state of the plants...what is most important for live plants-is the correct color temp or Kelvin, age of bulb and photoperiod-without proper light the plants will have a hard time using any food...


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## Laki

well, I have some java fern, moss balls and hornwort in there- they don't require special lighting, desklamp light is their mode of light-


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## Aus

I have really enjoyed reading this thread, lovely tanks everybody!

OFL, forgive all the questions but I'm new to fishkeeping and NPT's really interest me as I love plants and always wanted to learn more about aquatic species. I have one betta currently in a 2g unfiltered (lots of water changes) and am very soon moving him to a 5 gallon.

-- Is 5g too small a tank to support this system? 
-- If not, what kind of lighting requirements would a tank that size have?

Also: 

-- Is store bought potting mix + clay litter okay? 
-- What proportions do you mix those in?
-- Have you ever had any issues with disease from potting mix?
-- How deep does the soil level need to be, minimum? 
-- Is fine aquarium gravel sufficient to keep the soil in place or is sand a necessity? Can gravel go over the sand?
-- If something's going to go horribly wrong, what's that most likely to be?

Again, sorry for all the questions! I'll look through some more threads for tips here, too.


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## Oldfishlady

I have made NPT in 1gal up to 75gal tanks...in tanks smaller than 3gal- I don't use filters or any water movement even on start up usually....

I would use a standard organic potting soil without any additive in a 2gal-5gal with either small gravel or sand as the cap....

In 2gal-1in soil with half inch sand or gravel cap
In 5gal 1.5in soil with half inch sand or gravel cap

Then plant lots of stem plants-add water and make water changes until the water is clear-then add floating plants-add trumpet snails and the Betta once the water is at temp-make twice weekly 50% water only change for the first 4-5 weeks-then decrease to 50% water only weekly for 4-5 weeks-then monthly thereafter to maintain the system-provided that you have good plant growth and need to trim weekly

Lights-you may need to change the bulb-look for a daylight bulb in the 5500-6500k range and 5-7.5watts or what ever the light strips is graded for ...start on a 10h/day photoperiod...

As long as you have something that will burrow in the soil to help prevent anaerobic areas like trumpet snails until the rooted plants start growing well and you start with enough of the right species of plants-add floating plants-don't over clean especially the substrate-have the correct lights...you shouldn't have many problems.....

If you check out my album I have more pic of smaller tanks with info

Look forward to seeing your post with pic once you get the tank setup...


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## blueridge

:shock: Wow amazing tanks OFL!!!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you...looks like I need to update my pics....


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## Aus

Thank you so much for that information. Your gallery is lovely, and I enjoyed looking through it.


It'll probably take me a few weeks to set this up, but I'm really eager to do so, and feel a lot more confident to try this out knowing you've had success with smaller tanks. I'll post some piccies when it's up.


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## Oldfishlady

Glad I could help and look forward to pics....


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## rogue619

I have wanted a bigger aquarium for some time now, and this thread has made it even worse! A 55 would be awesome, but I just don't have the room. Thanks for a good sense on how to do a NPT later on though OFL!


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## Oldfishlady

Update Photos-




























Also, I updated lots of pics in my album....take a look.....


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## Captain Jim Dandy

*Guppy Heaven*

Absolutely beautiful! You are my hero too. I only have about thirty posts but can you sell me Java moss? If not I will try to relocate some I saw on internet I beleive was in California. I would love some guppies too! But really just wanted to say you are so impressive! CJD


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## Myates

Hey, what's that over there!

*tries to grab a tank*
*throws out back*

....

Beautiful tanks OFL! As always!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you....and to think this is just roughly 3 months of growth more or less-nutrient rich substrate can really get the plants growing and I have trimmed at least weekly and have only had to make 3 water changes...top off with about 5gal of water weekly since it is open top...
Water prams are zero across the board-generally I will never even have nitrate due to the plants and this is a pretty heavy stocked tank ...
Plants can function as a great source of filtration-and even take care of the DOC's-they don't leave but are recycled by the plants so they don't cause any livestock problems...

Sorry Jim...I don't sell plants or livestock to outside sources......

NPT-Natural planted tanks with soil substrate are great system with little problems when setup properly-started with enough of the right species of plants....no CO2 or ferts needed....as close to a complete ecosystem that you can create in a glass box-but its still a closed system so it needs some care...but not much.....

You can see more of my tanks with updated pic and information in my album
http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?u=17234

Enjoy....


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## Oldfishlady

About 3 weeks ago I removed all fish but the breeding pair of long fin albino plecos-male guarding his nest of eggs in the hollowed out section of a piece of driftwood for the past week and spotted some baby plecos a few days ago...usually I will get about 30 or so......

But what I am waiting on....._Angelfish_ that I ordered off aquabid...half dozen _Koi angelfish_...I got them 2 weeks ago all DOA but the person I ordered them from was great and sent me replacements at no charge and he sent them overnight express that cost more than my whole order...Great guy I highly recommend him _Joefish72 _if you ever buy different species of fish.....anyway

I got the Angelfish and Florida *** fish today...4 of the 8 survived and all 6 of the flag fish survived and so far doing great-eating and hunting the baby red cherry shrimp....I will post some pic once my camera battery is re-charged......

My plan for this 55g NPT-other than the pleco and RCS...._Angelfish_-I have always wanted to breed this species and if all goes right....by next year I will hopefully have eggs......


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## Aus

Good luck with the Angelfish!


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## Oldfishlady

Here is a pic.....sadly I lost another Angelfish too...dang....down to 3 now and the odds of getting a pair are getting slimmer by the day.....


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## Aus

Wow, another one? Are they usually delicate? Sorry to hear that, and I hope the other three stay well. 

Your pic didn't work? I googled them, however. They're certainly beautiful fish.


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## Oldfishlady

I kept Angelfish back in the 1960's and due to my hard water I was never successful in keeping them long or breeding them. I have done a great deal of research and over the years since they are farm raised they have adapted to the harder waters and hobbyist have been able to keep and breed in most source water.....I have wanted to keep and breed this species for a very long time and the Koi Angelfish are hard to come by in my area-otherwise I would have got them local....due to their size I suspect that makes them a bit more delicate to be shipped over 1300 miles.......

Sadly, I now only have one left...dang.....the largest is the only survivor-it acts and looks healthy but so did the others.....


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## Aus

Oh no!  Only one left? 1300 miles is a long way.. is there any chance you could get the water chemistry details from their breeder and mimic it, until they can be transitioned to yours? Maybe that would help ease the stress of transport? Is that a dumb question? 

You must be so disappointed. I'm sorry you've lost your beautiful fish. :-(


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## inareverie85

I'm so sorry  Angel's are so dainty, and shipping's rough on them. 

Do you use the drip acclimation method?


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## Oldfishlady

Yes, drip acclimation...after I removed the dead bodies from the water I placed them in a bucket and added an ammonia neutralizer then using airline hose with a knot tied in it for drip acclimation on the Angelfish and cup acclimation on the flag fish....all flag fish alive and well...3 pairs in 3 different tanks...thats a pretty neat fish too and starting to color up today....


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## Myates

I'm so sorry you lost so many angels  Unsure how you could of done anything different..  Poor little ones.

Angels are very special to me, ever since my first one back in '96.. a black lace male who was my buddy. He did the dance for me when I entered the room, eat off my hand, etc. 
Shadow Dancer was a great angel, and I wish I could have him back  He lived with me for a few years, happily eating ghost shrimp and being the boss of the tank..

Koi Angels are absolutely stunning when you find ones with strong colors and a good mix. Wondering if location plays a big factor in availability- back in Arizona, 90% of the angels being sold were koi, then silver, then copper-black were the next most common.

The flag fish looks interesting!


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## SpookyTooth

I absolutely adore your aquariums, Oldfishlady! I'm sorry for your angel fish losses of late and I hope you are able to breed them in future - I'm sure once you finally reach that point the trials and losses will have not been in vain.

I have always loved the thought of NPTs and have finally decided to attempt one of my own - I'm a huge fan of red cherry shrimp as well so I'm going to transform one of the 2 gallon aquariums in our shed into a loving home for a breeding colony of RCS. I've made plenty of notes based off your recommendations and wanted to thank you for all the support you've provided for everyone regarding these fascinating and beautiful aquascapes.

I've never been overly successful with live plants but have learned of my errors and am willing to try again. If I may ask... do you have any recommendations as to plant species for those who aren't overly confident with live plants such as myself? I am a huge fan of willow moss (Fontinalis Antipyretica?) and water lettuce and would really like to get both of these into the aquarium if possible. Outside of the usual amazon swords and "easy", "basic" species I know next to nothing - I would greatly appreciate any advice you could give.

Thank you for sharing these astounding photographs and I hope things look up!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you.....

Don't know if you have seen this link.....but here it is again......from Diana Walstad book....
http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf

Good starter plants....just about any moss, naja grass, crypts, ludwigia, rotala, water wisteria...the list is endless-but these have all done well for me.....


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## SpookyTooth

Thank you very much  I have seen the link - saved it to favourites! Fantastic article!!


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## Oldfishlady

Some updated pic from today.......
I added 20 Betta juvies for grow out, a pair of Florida flag fish(_actually it might be 2 females/the extras_), breeding pair of bushynose longfin albino pleaco and their fry (_about 30_), lots of RCS (_Red cherry shrimp_), lots of common snails-ramshorn, pond, MTS and my single Koi _Angelfish_ and it has nearly doubled in size...he/she loves its mosquito larva..._lol_...soon should have 4 more Koi Angelfish, (_due to be shipped next week_)-but they will go into _QT_ for about 4 or so weeks before adding to the tank.


















































Enjoy.....


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## Bombalurina

The tank looks so beautiful! I love all that green.  And it looks so natural...which I suppose is the point...


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## Myates

Very lovely, and I am in love with your angel.. so very pretty, love how she has more yellow to him. She is going to grow up and be even more beautiful. I am wondering how she will do with the shrimps when she is older? I used to feed mine adult ghost shrimp all the time, whole and alive- wouldn't last 5 minutes in my angel tank. 
I am strongly (and secretively so my boyfriend doesn't roll his eyes) considering starting back up with angels in the future once more, thanks to you lol.. I started looking at their pictures when you posted about your shipment and it made me miss having them around. So I blame you  Thanks!

Wishing the best with the next shipment..


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## Oldfishlady

Thanks guy....I keep hoping the Angelfish colors up more....this was the plainest one of the group......I have been calling it a him.....lol.....I don't know why...just do.....he come to the front and wiggly for me asking for food.....funny fella....spoiling him with live foods.....he has doubled in size in the short time I have had him. And yes, he goes after the baby shrimp like a mad man.....hopefully the tank is planted heavy enough to keep them from eating all of them...but I have 2 dedicated shrimp tanks that I stock all my tank from......

The Florida flag fish have really colored up and responding well...I have dedicated 2 tanks for them to spawn....I have 2 pairs and the 2 extra female in the 55gal-the more I look at the two in the 55g the more I see 2 females and not a pair...females have a black dot on their dorsal fin...colors are really starting to pop on them.....

Hopefully I will get the new Angelfish without any problems.....the guy I am getting these from sounds like he knows what he is doing.....


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## Myates

I love their dance lol, may be why bettas grabbed my attention. I was amazed at how some of my angels were very intuned into me and my actions, and how they responded to me (such as the wiggle dance).. so possible one of the reasons I started liking bettas, was just how interactive they can be and how they reminded me of angels. I'm sure he will color up- you do an amazing job in caring for so many species of animals/fish, he'll be wonderful. 

Those flag fish are nice looking, I bet even better when the light hits them just right. Looking forward to more pictures!


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## Aus

I'm glad your angelfish is doing well, OFL! Also, it's interesting to hear a bit about their personality. 

When Daughter and I went to the LFS recently, she saw a large dalmation angel and fell totally in love with it - quite amusing, she was just so dazzled by it. Now she wants a tank in her room with two dalmation angelfish and maybe a smaller catfish of some kind (her only other fishy interest) for her 14th birthday later in the year. 

I said this was fine - but I understand that angels are for 'experienced' fish keepers? I'm encouraging her to read up on their care - she has months to do so, but I worry that she might be biting off more than she can chew. 

I wanted to ask- what size tank might suit that stock?


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## Oldfishlady

Awesome...I wish one of my kids would have held interest in fish keeping-now I have to work on the grandkids....lol.... and I did the same thing when one of them wanted a critter....research and a paper written on it....when my son wanted a lizard- he researched and found out how much work it would be....he didn't get one....

Anyway, for Angelfish I would use 20gal tall for a pair or 30-40gal so that she could also have some catfish and since they are farm raised they are not as delicate as they once were-more tolerant to the harder source water...This is one of the best sites I have found on Angelfish
http://www.angelsplus.com/fisharticles.htm

My new Angelfish should be here today or tomorrow......yeah.....


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## Boscobear

*Just a quick question*

From an old man, who hasn't been caring for fish since the "dark ages". I stopped my aquariums after the children were born. The family, career, and house took first place in life.

When I stopped, 35 years ago they were just starting to use UGF and were talking about the nitrogen cycles. The big problem was no internet, no information, just what you found out from people at the LFS. Books, not much infor there either.

Any way the addition of CO2 to the aquarium is new to me, and I would like to know what you do, in general. Do you watch CO2 levels, have an indicator, or add CO2. I'm not sure if I just need to let it do its own thing.

I have purchased a 125 gallon, that had fish, discus, and angelfish. There was a RO system, and 75 gallon holding water tank included. 
I have had it up and running since January . Lots of new technology, and theories out there now. A whole new world of fish keeping. If I had been reading this web site before I set up this aquraium, things would have been done a lot different.
The best thing is all the knowledge that is now at our finger tips.


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## Oldfishlady

Isn't that the truth Boscobear.....how things have changed since we started this hobby and with the internet...wow....lots of great information but sadly nearly just as much wrong information or a lot of old school thought...some that are still great...but some really out dated......lol....

Gosh I hope you will post pic of your tank....one species I have always wanted to keep Discus...while I do call my well water "magic water" it is liquid rock and getting R/O system is out of the question for me.....I am hoping I will be able to breed the Angelfish...I know back in the 60's I couldn't but most were wild caught back then...now they are farmed raised and more adapted to different source water...but I also read that about Discus-just not willing to find out at their price....lol....

In natural planted soil based tanks you don't need to use any injected CO2-you can-but you don't need to-plus they are a mod to low light system....The natural decomp creates natural CO2 for the system and you can also do a sessta method and turn the lights off mid day for 4 hour so that the CO2 will build back up....I don't monitor the CO2...just plant growth....as long as the plants are thriving and I have limited algae...I don't stress about it.....NPT's are designed so that you don't need any added ferts or CO2......the livestock and decomp provide that and the plants provide the filtration......


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## Oldfishlady

My new Angelfish got here last week and wow are they beautiful......these are called the Emperor Angels-named by the breeder....from this guy
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwangelfish&1333803513
Expertly packed in single re-breather bags and all made it to me alive and are alive and well today eating like pigs-I should have kept them in QT longer-but they looked cramped so I released them last night....here are a few pic...

























I have 5 new Angelfish to go with the one surviving Angelfish-6 total.....


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## SpookyTooth

Ohh wow! Those are absolutely beautiful - congratulations! I hope they continue to do well and look forward to future photos! I do very much like angelfish but doubt I could keep them myself heh. I'll stick to my single tank for now!


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## Captain Jim Dandy

Those angels are real sharp,OFL. I just bought a 55 gallon tank that I am considering trying your procedure for NPT-- Now I want to put little black angelfish in it! Anyway...Yours are beauties!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you......and they look so pretty in this 55gal NPT too.......I hope I get a pair from this group....I have always wanted to try breeding this species again.....I can't wait......laffs.....going to be fun......


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## Oldfishlady

Bit of an update.....

_Angelfish_ are all doing great-so neat watching them school together.......but I had to remove the 2 _Florida flag fish_ due to aggression issues and for being too fast eating all the mosquito larva and daphnia before the Angelfish and Betta juvies could eat....so back to the 75gal-but that worked out well since they ended up being 2 extra males and not a pair-at first I thought they were females but on closer inspection they didn't have the black dorsal dot...***side note-the 2 other pairs in 2 different tanks-both have spawned-soon will be over ran with Florida flag fish....lol........anyway

I wanted to post a few pic of the _Longfin albino pleco_ fry-this 55gal NPT is also the spawning tank for one of my breeding pair-
They really hard to get a good pic since they are nearly the same color of the sand.....lol.....they are not much bigger than the RCS (_Red cherry shrimp_) and the algae wafer....about 30 fry total-and I have already sold 20 of them......


























Enjoy...


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## Boscobear

Today was egg day, for Easter, maybe huh. 3 different Angelfish laying eggs, but no males wanting the action. This makes for some unwanted aggression across the tank. Territories are staked out, and lip wresting on both ends of the tank. There might be a forth Angelfish wanting to lay eggs, she is cleaning a spot. There has to be something missing, the TDS is pretty low, could that stop the males instinctive reaction to fertilize the spawned eggs?


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## Oldfishlady

Sorry Boscobear, I am not yet experienced with Angelfish reproduction to be of much help, hopefully in about year I will be.....lol.....


A little update....

Angelfish are doing great and growing like crazy-being spoiled rotten on mass amounts of mosquito larva....lol.....

Pleco babies doing great

Flag fish-I just spotted some fry-only 3 but wow are they big-not sure when eggs laid, hatched....I did see some spawning behavior in both of the flag fish tank several weeks ago-but never seen any eggs-not that I could have since these tanks are mass planted....lol....
On a side note-the research stated that they love hair algae...not seeing that...lol.....I stopped removing the hair algae I get in the 25gal that gets full sun for 6h/day this time of year-for the Flag fish since that is what they are supposed to eat-a bit disappointed I must say....but a least I got fry....yeah...and I didn't have to do anything special....so....Flag fish are easy egg layers killifish IME...lol....but truthfully- one time and 3 fry- really should only count as Luck....


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## CaseyA

Oh my gosh, fishlady, I LOVE your tanks! It sounds so simple but I know I have to be missing something. Do you have a blog or a thread in which the process to create NPTs is detailed?


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## Oldfishlady

CaseyA said:


> Oh my gosh, fishlady, I LOVE your tanks! It sounds so simple but I know I have to be missing something. Do you have a blog or a thread in which the process to create NPTs is detailed?


Thank you......they are pretty simple as long as you start out with all the right stuff and most important the right type of lights to promote plant growth that keeps the water safe...

They do have their own set of problems until the soil is mature, alive-starting its life underwater and the plants actively growing.

Excluding the tanks themselves, filter and heater-it cost me about $20.00 to start a 55gal tank-this includes lights-bulb and light strips, plants, soil, sand, hardscape. They can be as expensive as you want or low cost....I go low cost since I am on a fixed budget.....lol....

The first part of this thread describes how I start one-but you can google natural planted tanks, Diana Walstad for more information-I use a lot of that info along with a twist of my own-here is a link-a pdf page from Walstad book to give a bit more info and idea.

http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf


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## Boscobear

I "had" a small experiment in the works. One with organic garden soil on the bottom, with a 1/2 inch of gravel on top, all in a 2 gallon glass jar. I had some nice plants growing for a few months, and then added 2 White Clouds, then a month later, two more. There was no heater, no filtration, just me changing 80% of the water every other day. It was an experiment of success in operation since before last Thanksgiving. Last week it went sour, I began to smell the hint of Hydrogen Sulfide odor. This is caused by the lack of oxygen into the soil. I removed the 4 white clouds this morning, thought I heard them applaud as I was placing them into a 20 gallon community tank, naa couldn't have been. 
In a static environment like that, how can I invite oxygen? I know, air pump, I wanted no motor operation. It was OK for near 6 months, maybe it can't happen. The bottom becomes a cess pool, without oxygen there can be zero biofiltration type bacterial growth, just nasty anaerobic bacteria. Simple conclusion, need to push oxygen through the entire soil surface, from the bottom up. Still an experiment.
Congrats on the babies, lol Give them time, they will eat the algae. Some times it takes a while before some fish eat what you want them to eat.

The only thing that has bred for me, is in my 125 gal tank, with the Discus. Somehow the Nitrite snails have increased in population. I originally placed 6 in the tank, now there is around 15. Thought they would only lay live eggs in brackish water.


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## Oldfishlady

Trumpet snails are what I use to help prevent anaerobic soil-they burrow and help pull oxygen into the soil-also stem plants will help pull oxygen into the soil with their roots-this is why both stem plants and MTS are important for soil based systems.

How many and what species of plants did you use, any floating plants, how deep was the soil and cap, any large hard scape items sitting on top of the soil, lighting and photoperiod.

I don't use filtration in my tanks 10gal and less-I sometimes will use either a small HOB or sponge filter for the first month or so on the smaller tanks when I first set one up-But will be removed once I have active plant growth on the stem plants-usually by the second month the filter is removed.


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## Scienceluvr8

Thanks for the reply OFL!  I do have a question. I read over the link that you provide from Diana Walstad concerning pet shrimp, and I was wondering if I could use that same technique but not with a glass bowl? I want some steps to follow to go about doing that in my 2.5 gallon Minibow. Thanks again!


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## Oldfishlady

Update-
















Angelfish are doing great
















This is the male BN longfin albino with one of his babies









I have to trim weekly to keep the plants under control and remove the mass amounts of water lettuce and frogbit


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## SpookyTooth

Oh my word! It's absolutely _gorgeous_! I truly am in awe of your aquariums, Oldfishlady - congratulations with the angel fish, I'm glad this batch are doing well and I hope all the inhabitants continue to do so.


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## Silverfang

In breaking news... a local woman's house was broken into. The only thing stolen was the contents of one fish tank.

Lol. I hope I can get mine half as nice.


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## Oldfishlady

Laffs....thank you.....live plants are a lot easier than they are given credit for even in regular substrate....It all come down to the proper color temp lights that promote photosynthesis......


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## mathkid

I love your NPTs =) I think I want to try one! I have a 1g bowl and a 2.5g tank that I've been wanting to make rimless. Can you get away with a tank with no animals at all? Or just snails? I don't really want to get shrimp and I don't want to risk any fish...

Do you know where's a good place to get MTS? How many snails per gallon (i.e. for a 1-gallon bowl, how many snails should you put in? 5 gallons?)


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## Aus

Wowwww! 

Yay, so glad they're all fine and settled - and omgosh, so pretty!

I can't wait to show Daughter these pics, she so loves angelfish.. is taking great care of her betta, too, wants a 10 gallon NPT for him. I said she could, after we move but she has to help with the setup, lol. Your tanks have really inspired her interest in fishies.


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## Jupiter

This is amazing OFL! I've been thinking of turning my 10 gallon in a NPT shrimp tank. I don't have much of a green thumb, but there's a lot of helpful advice here. Hopefully someday I can get a tank like yours!


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you all.....

No, you don't have to have fish or shrimp in the NPT-snails only will be fine..I would start with a couple of MTS and soon you will have many.....some pet shops will have them for free-since they tend to be pest and reproduce so fast....nice livebearer snail to help prevent anaerobic soil....


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## kfryman

I want to do another NPT, but I don't have another tank for it nor the space. One thing I learned is plants root like crazy in soil. My rotala was hard to just get out of the tank. My swords... That's a different story lol.

Beautiful tank as always OFL.


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## Hopeseeker

Random question for OldFishLady: Do you use your carbon in your Fluval U3? I have a Fluval U2 for my future sorority and was wondering about the carbon.


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## Oldfishlady

Laffs....Isn't that the truth.....Plants do love dirt and that is one of my biggest problems too....They grow so well that I am running out of space for tanks.....My back bedroom might end up being another fish room at this rate....lol....

Hopseeker-No, I don't use carbon in any of my tanks, however, I always keep fresh unused carbon on hand for emergencies.

IMO/E-carbon/activated charcoal is a personal choice- more than a need. It is short lived and can't be recharged.


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## BettaQi

So inspiring!


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## Oldfishlady

BettaQi said:


> So inspiring!


Thank you....these are great system, easy to care for once they are mature and thriving......


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## Aus

My soil's just settled in properly in the 10 G NPT after a month and a half or so.. and wow, am I seeing plant growth. Stuff is going crazy in there! And my big cranky plakat is just loving the dense planting.. and I am very much enjoying all the plant species, and watching them grow. 

I'm really grateful for the info and encouragement you provide, OFL. Thanks very much.


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## laoshun

If I were to buy soil, what would you recommend or does it not matter as long as it is soil?


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you Aus, it is amazing how well plants grow in dirt...lol...And oddly enough it really doesn't make mud or messy like you would think when mixing dirt and water.....lol.....Once the dirt starts its life underwater and is alive and the plants thriving-these system can almost take care of themselves....lol....
Even when I pull plants and/or re-plant-I may have some dirt in the water column for 5-10min but it always settles fairly fast and other than the small amount of dirt that settles on the plant leaves-you would never know I pulled up plants.....

And then the behavior changes I have seen with the livestock....Amazing....I am seeing behaviors you only dream about....laffs.....

laoshun-not any dirt will work-If you want to use bagged dirt-look for organic type potting soil without any additives like ferts or you can use the bagged top soil. 
I use all kinds of different dirt from organic potting soil, top soil, kitty litter and dirt from my yard-mix and matched...etc....Then capping the dirt/soil with either playsand, pool filter sand or small diameter gravel with equal success.


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## SpookyTooth

I still yearn to do an NPT one day but for now I've found a balance that is working well for me without soil. Once I'm comfortable with what I currently have I'll be sure to try again... Thank you for a billionth time, Oldfishlady! You've really proven an inspiration to me and I can't wait to see the next update.

Are you planning any more tanks at any time soon?


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## Oldfishlady

Thank you, I am planning to tear a couple of tanks down and re-do them...I just dread doing it since its a lot of work....lol....The 75gal is getting over grown in bronze crypts, jungle val and naja grass and the 25gal has no floor space left and needs to be re-done too....I have pulled loads of plants out of these tanks every couple of weeks-they just grow faster than I can keep up sometimes....lol.... 

I like to wait until fall or spring when the weather is nice enough for me to have the doors open to make hauling buckets of mud outside easier and to hook the siphon up so that I can drain the water outside in the yard/garden by gravity. I have one python hooked up to the sink to fill them and one python on gravity to drain...Love my pythons.....


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## SpookyTooth

Gosh. I bet the 75gal will be something to remember! Best of luck with them, I'm sure it'll work out wonderfully though!


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