# New Tank Set Up



## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So I've not had freshwater for a little while and I have been planning on what to do with my currently unoccupied Nano (4G) and Pico (2.5G) tanks.

Regardless of whether I decide to go marine or Betta with this DIY build I want to do more or less the same thing with the tanks. 










So I plan to drill the smaller of the two tanks to allow a drain and a return line to the "sumped system" (Larger tank) which will be displayed below it, the sump will have a baffle installed and the equipment (heater and return) will be installed behind this out of view but easily accessed for maintenance and cleaning. I will sketch this up and add a photo later on. Actually no ill add a picture of my old sump that I built and it's basically the same thing but smaller and simplified.









So water enters top right and flows through the filter sock into refugium area (planted display of seaweed and beneficial creatures that would eaten in main tank) through a filter sock. Then over the baffle with bubble trap into the return area top left where the return pump and heater live. 

This will limit the water volume in the tanks to roughly 2G and 3G respectively but apart from two cheap lights will run a single heater and pump for the total system, there utilising both tanks and keeping running costs down. 

So the question is, the larger tank on the bottom, I think would look better stood as a high tank as opposed to standard, would mean breaking the tank down to panels and cutting some more glass or acrylic but I know how to do that and then rebuild as a 4G Tall. Any issues with keeping a betta in a vertical space as opposed to to horizontal? 

Both tanks would be planted and flow would be suitable for the fish after I work out head pressures and distances


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## TropicalFlow3 (11 mo ago)

I don’t find there is any issues with keeping a betta in a vertical tank.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Good to see you back. It's been a while.

I've never understood the business about Betta not doing well in vertical tanks unless they are really narrow. Will it be 25-30 cm (10-12 inches) wide?

Again, good to see you back. You are a real asset to the community so I hope you stick around.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

TropicalFlow3 said:


> I don’t find there is any issues with keeping a betta in a vertical tank.


Thanks that is good to know



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Good to see you back. It's been a while.
> 
> I've never understood the business about Betta not doing well in vertical tanks unless they are really narrow. Will it be 25-30 cm (10-12 inches) wide?
> 
> Again, good to see you back. You are a real asset to the community so I hope you stick around.


It has been a while indeed, I have missed this site as well as taken a few things to other forums from here (the emergency and disease fill out form is a great template) and I do miss having a Betta on my desk watching me while i work. 

I will have to double check the measurement of the tank, I think that it is L35cm x W20cm x H20cm currently. I would lose some of the height and depth of the tank so maybe something closer to L20 x W20 x H30. I still have that decision to make. Alternatively I was seeing if I could swap the larger tank for an actual Tall tank and attempt a Waterfall Paludarium and incorporate my new obsession of plants into the tank too.

Something like this but with a more suitable tank to give swimming room, this would also be beneficial for the amount of shade that I can provide the Betta.








Image not mine obviously, just for an idea of the look of the project


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Have found the tank online and the measurements are 40cm x 25cm x 25cm, so would most likely have a 25cm Cubed area of water (15 Litres or 4 US Gallons)


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Right so the Aquarium is now completely disassembled, i have cleaned up the silicone from all surfaces and sanded down the existing sharp edges. First task will be to black out the back piece of glass before I re assemble the tank, i will then think about what my plan is regarding the now open sharp corners on the horizonal pieces as well as what to do about a jump guard/lid for the water section


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So reconstruction is under way, can't decide if I like the black silicone or not, not too much effort to break down again and restart. Also need to clean the panels more thoroughly 









Also need to find a cleaner tape to use while building


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Great project! Following!!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So got an Amazon order today, and who does not like those. I may have spent a little more than I intended too but hopefully the additional costs will make the tank look a lot more presentable in its finished stage. Here is what I received today;


24V Ultrasonic Mist Maker Fogger
Hidom Ap-650 Aquarium Pump (max 350lph, 1.2m head pressure, adjustable) - plenty of baffles
Corrugated Plastic Sheets
Clear and Black Silicone
Capillary Matting
Expanding Foam, Black Pond Concrete Epoxy Resin
Eggcrate
So essentailly everything that I need to make the actual build, then later on will come the aquascaping which i intend to use Black Sand and Black Lava Rock for the Betta Falls


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## gee (10 mo ago)

Ratvan said:


> So got an Amazon order today, and how does not like those. I may have spent a little more than I intended too but hopefully the additional costs will make the tank look a lot more presentable in its finished stage. Here is what I received today;
> 
> 
> 24V Ultrasonic Mist Maker Fogger
> ...


wow can't wait to see


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Ok so i have had an interesting few hours, got into work after a site visit and the floor was soaked. Quick check of the tank gave me to clue as to where the leak had started from, until I decided to look at my ATO (Automatic Top Off) and yes one of the seams on the tank has sprung a leak. 

So this project is temporarily on hold while the tank acts as my new ATO reservoir. I do get paid on the 25th and might be able to locate a tall Hex tank that I can use for this project instead.


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Finding large amounts of water on the floor always makes my heart race until I figure out where it’s coming from lol. Hope your project isn’t held up too long


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

X skully X said:


> Finding large amounts of water on the floor always makes my heart race until I figure out where it’s coming from lol. Hope your project isn’t held up too long


Strangely the office is used to me flooding the place by now, especially when i get distracted and forget to turn off my RODI unit 

Payday is a week tomorrow, so not too long a delay.

And just like that....


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Right so while I was in the LFS looking for another Lionfish I did spot a Fluval Chi Tank that had been returned due to damage to the front pane. This means that I picked up the 25 Litre Model, minus filter, light and heater for £10. 

Not bad at all, also noticed some of these little ones hidden amongst the Betta fish









On the subject of Betta's when did they get so expensive? Last time I remember checking the price of these they were £9.99 or near enough. Today the cheapest that I could find was £24.99 for a single colour Plakat, Veiltail etc. 

If i wanted a Koi or Other Fancy I am looking at nearly £40!!

I never thought i would say that my Reef and Saltwater keeping would be the least expensive of the two


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Ratvan said:


> On the subject of Betta's when did they get so expensive? Last time I remember checking the price of these they were £9.99 or near enough. Today the cheapest that I could find was £24.99 for a single colour Plakat, Veiltail etc.
> 
> If i wanted a Koi or Other Fancy I am looking at nearly £40!!


What?? Where I live double tails, delta tails, halfmoons, crowntails etc cost 5-10 euros, and plakats 15-20, at any color!


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

Where I am most bettas are 12 US dollars unless it’s a koi then they are 25$ giants are 30$


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

last year I saw a solid black being sold for 50$ 😵‍💫


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

X skully X said:


> last year I saw a solid black being sold for 50$ 😵‍💫


Oh, I once saw an opal betta for 80 euros! I actually was about to buy him, but then I saw the price!!😂


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

betta4ever! said:


> Oh, I once saw an opal betta for 80 euros! I actually was about to buy him, but then I saw the price!!😂


Pretty close to the one i was looking at today (Opal/Platinum Crowntail) until i noticed the price then i noped out of there


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Interesting development, I can actually get a pair of Betta Imbellis for less than the cost of a Splenden. Goes to show the popularity of fins really doesn't it?

I am still thinking about doing something similar for current/filtration/water movement (waterfall) but would assume that I need a long rather than a tall tank.....


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Ratvan said:


> I can actually get a pair of Betta Imbellis for less than the cost of a Splenden


Where I live, we don't even have wild bettas! I found a pair in a country near greece, but it costed 150$!!!!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Looking at picking up one of these tanks. Looks to have dimensions plus my first Reef was made by Aqua One so I know that they do make good high quality tanks. The only thing that i cant use on this build that i have picked up already is the pump which shouldn't be an issue and it is always nice to have a spare laying around.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Right then, after much searching around I have managed to track down a Paludarium that I think should work for this project. I will need to bung the hole but this gives me an Aquatic area of 30cm x 30cm x 20cm, I have placed the order and now we wait for delivery.









So I still have the intended Pump, Light, Heater, Temperature Controller (I use preset heaters) and the Mist Making Machine. I also plan on going on a few hikes this weekend so will keep my eye out or interesting bogwood, as well as any interesting stones and pebbles that I can use to decorate the tank and make the terrestrial area of the display. 

Going a bit slower than I intended but i want the build complete and correct before i start to cycle the tanka nd think about occupants


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

A Paludarium is going to be a perfect environment for housing orchids bare root terrestrial like they are in nature… 👀 forward to watching this build 💜


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

OK so if anyone is aware, the UK is currently in an energy crisis. We have just had a 54% price increase with another of the same amount in September. Yay. 

So I still want to continue this project but will have to be super budget with running costs. I have been working on the salvaged tank and would like a stand and also an air driven sponge filter I can hide. The tank will run with a 15w Preset heater on a temperature controller to maintain 78f. (Switches heater off if its too warm and back on if too cold, can also turn on a fan but I do not have one). I also have a spare 6w white LED and a tight fitting lid.


















Also you may have noticed the grey back and floor of the tank, I am hoping with the amount of botanical that I plan on adding this will brighten the pictures but not stress the fish. Also plan on being barebottom with substrate of rotting botanical so want a sandbed effect without a sandbed. 

So little to no flow but with a lot of filtration I hope.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

Betta are very expensive here and I had heard that due to some lobbying by PETA Thailand is no longer permitted to ship betta in mass quantities. I’m assuming that would affect price.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

BettaloverSara said:


> Betta are very expensive here and I had heard that due to some lobbying by PETA Thailand is no longer permitted to ship betta in mass quantities. I’m assuming that would affect price.


Thankfully I'm not too worried about the cost of the livestock, I have been in contact with a wild breeder here in the UK and once I have the tank set up have 4 Api Api put aside for me in next couple of spawns. 

I might see if I can find a battery powered Air pump instead to drive the sponge filter. Also botanical should be here in next few weeks and today I am going gathering for wild materials


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Yeah so I did a thing today, couldnt pass up the deal








So for the short term (6-9 months) this tank is going to be a Grow out for my little noodle (Hissy Elliot)


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Realised that I never showed the set up for Hissy Elliot.









And here she is playing peek a boo in the aspen bedding. 









Currently searching for a larger set up for her, I do have another 9 months or so to get that built and set up however. Decided not to go the route of a polystyrene setup for this temporary tank as it would be too difficult to remove her from the tank. 

Will attempt to handle in teh next week or so as she has had about a fortnight to settle in


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Great photo. Hissy Elliot is the cutest snake! How big will she get?


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Great photo. Hissy Elliot is the cutest snake! How big will she get?


She's a corn snake so anywhere between 4 and 6 foot. I think that I have found a vivarium suitable for her adult life but would still like something a little larger (actually taller) as i want this enclosure to be bioactive so i need more height than is typical. Have found a 48*18*18 but would like a 48*24*18 at least.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So last night I noticed that Hissy was not in her Vivarium, the lid was ever so slightly open and a very hurried search turned up no snake.............


a few hours later I found her, in my shoe


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Haha, naughty Hissy! Glad you found her. That pic is amazing.


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## Eridanus (Jul 1, 2021)

That's always a worrying situation, but I must say, that resulting picture is incredibly adorable!!


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I used to put a strap on each end of my ball python tanks so they couldn’t pop the lid up. I never had an escape. The quick release buckle made it pretty convenient. Just an idea for you.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Cuddles with the Noodle last night


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Noodle is sooo cute!! His colours are stunning!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So I found someone who is upgrading their tank in a couple of weeks and wants to shift their cornsnake to a larger vivarium, I also got to meet a cutie named Dominoe









It's not the vivarium behind me but I'm looking at thr smaller 2 foot vivarium for a longer ish term solution for Hissy.

Which means the tank becomes avaliable again. And I want a Betta again. But then knowing me I will want something showy and the thing that separates SW from FW in my opinion is small fish in shoals/schools...... so that leads to a sorority tank as I don't want a community tank again.

Here are my thoughts on this, I'm going to want a lot of different territories so should I go for a cube or a long and shallow? 

I can get a 20 Cube or a 20 Long for the same price and the lighting cost isn't different just two different looks. 

I'm also going to need back up tanks, but I know where I can get multiple 2.5s for cheap just need heaters. I also know they are not tempered glass so can be drilled. So that would mean a custom stand to go with either tank but I can do that

In the mean time the plan is to visit the local garden centre/aquatics shop and have a look for some plants that I can grow in here for the larger project.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Aww! Dominoe is lovely! And it’s nice to put a face with a “name”.

As for sororities, although I’m sure either would work, personally I think longer is better than a cube when it comes to betta. I feel like the larger footprint give them more space to get away if they want to do so.

My only other tip is that true spawn sisters may be more likely to get along long term because they’ve likely established the pecking order when they were younger. Hopefully. 

I can’t wait to see what you come up with for them!!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Yeah I thought as much with length versus height, I have a few ideas regardless of shape of tank that I think might work. 

Filtration I am considering running an "undergravel" filter. I am also going to be utilising live plants, specifically peace lily and java fern to hide the minimal visible equipment. The visible "gravel" will be botanicals such as alder cones and leaves over a very thin gravel cap.

Sadly low boy tanks are rare over here but something 36 x24 x15 in would be ideal or even 36 x 24 x 18. Might have to look for a used frag tank or ex shop display tank


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## X skully X (Mar 17, 2020)

I know you said you didn’t want to do another community tank but… I find that a group of dither fish seems to help distract female bettas from picking on each other. In my experience the more female bettas you have together the less they zero in on one individual. It really helps disperse aggression. I am currently running a standard shaped 55 gallon with 80% plant cover and a large pirate ship, there are probably around 40 bettas, 12 green neon tetras and 6 kuhli loaches a few guppies and some really savvy cherry shrimp. I did a few spawns last year so they aren’t all siblings but they were raised together .


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

My reasoning for the not a community is that I do not want the height in the aquarium so I don't think that a community will work as well with the lack of water column height.

So found something, AIO600. It's roughly 24 gallons, L600mm x W600mm x H300mm


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Ratvan said:


> Yeah I thought as much with length versus height, I have a few ideas regardless of shape of tank that I think might work.
> 
> Filtration I am considering running an "undergravel" filter. I am also going to be utilising live plants, specifically peace lily and java fern to hide the minimal visible equipment. The visible "gravel" will be botanicals such as alder cones and leaves over a very thin gravel cap.
> 
> Sadly low boy tanks are rare over here but something 36 x24 x15 in would be ideal or even 36 x 24 x 18. Might have to look for a used frag tank or ex shop display tank


I’m officially old so I’m very familiar with undergravel filters. Will you have root plants as well or just epiphytes? 

Too bad about the scarcity of low boy tanks were you live. Hopefully you find something that will work for you.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So here is what I am thinking in regards to the plants, I don't want to have much visible hardscape in the tank. So I want to create "islands" of vegetation that will trail "roots" and cover to lower levels









So thinking to have java fern on the wood itself and have a peace lily up high with roots only in the water


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So while I was talking to a few betta breeders in an attempt to see if I could locate and purchase a clutch of females from the same spawn we got chatting and moved onto the subject of Wild Betta's. 

They can ship pairs of
Api Api
Hendra
Burdigala
Macrostoma
Uberis Belitong 

The pairs will be roughly the same cost as the females that I was looking at.

Which has now got me so confused as to which direction I want to go as I have managed to locate the tank that I want to purchase for the project. Its a used waterbox 25 reef tank and pump.









Tank is being sold as the all in one component has a hairline cracked which affects its ability to be a reef. So I am thinking remove that entire aio divider and gain an extra 6" of swimming space. 

I mean clearly the pair that jump out at me are the Macrostoma, due to colouration, size and the fact they are mouthbrooders which is something I havent had from a fish before. Couple of shots from the breeder of a former pair they moved on.

















Also not sure if I mentioned it or not but I have managed to get a new job, which means I need to move the work reef (lionfish lair) home at some point soon also. This means I will go from 2 to 4 tanks at home. Maybe time to sell my TV 🤣. However if I jave measured correctly then the mantis Manor tank can fit inside the stand for the Lionfish tank meaning I could make it look like a complete display rack.... and hide the rats nest of cables which would be good.


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Get wilds. Get wilds. Get wilds. You won't regret it. Sororities often fail. Wilds are the best. Those Macrostoma are stunning. Especially the male. You can't resist them. You need to get them. LOL!


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

@NoodleTheMysteryBetta help we need to persuade Ratvan to get wilds!🤣


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Wow. That’s a tough call. When faced with this type of situation I usually try to think about which option I would regret the most if I didn’t try it.

One factor to consider is that sororities can be notoriously volatile. Will you have the space to separate out any of the girls that may start to get too aggressive?


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

sparkyjoe said:


> Wow. That’s a tough call. When faced with this type of situation I usually try to think about which option I would regret the most if I didn’t try it.
> 
> One factor to consider is that sororities can be notoriously volatile. Will you have the space to separate out any of the girls that may start to get too aggressive?


With either set up I plan the main tank to be the waterbox 25, and will have a DIY stand that will house enough tanks (2 ×10G split or multiples 5's or 2.5s) and equipment to be able to separate fry into grow out tanks or isolation boxes for super aggressive/most timid. I'm going to see the tank tomorrow as I'm now on garden leave until I start my new job in September so plenty of build time if the damage isn't any worse then I expect.

Tank specs


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## NoodleTheMysteryBetta (Mar 22, 2020)

You want to get wild bettas soooooo badly 👀 It’s really cool getting watch their unique behaviors and I think mouthbrooders are especially neat. The only thing I would bring up is that most, if not all, the species you mentioned need very specific water parameters so it is important to consider if that is something you can maintain in the long run.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

I have a couple of reef tanks so worst case scenario would be to remineralise the RODI water I use for my tanks currently and for the foreseeable. 

Not tested tap water in this house so don't know what it's like but looking at build schedule I'll have plenty of time for that once it's built, then can consider filling and planting. Plus thinking about it mangroves grow quicker but still slow in freshwater and I think I can obtain some of the Asian types plus might be able to "save" on wanting to get into bonsai for those


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So the waterbox was damaged more than I initially thought and would take too much work to repair or salvage the tank, a bit annoying but the tank was very cheap. However i did find out that my LFS in a garden centre has opened and now carries aquatics. So thats the plan for the weekend go and have a look at what they have. 

Also my Mantis Shrimp had a bad moult so sadly she has passed. Which means when i transfer home the Lionfish Lair from my work I can put all the rock and sand from the mantis manor into that tank freeing up the Fluval Evo. So looking to see how i can dial back the flow on this as something suitable to a wild species.


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

I'm sorry for your mantis shrimp....


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks, she did nearly make it to 3 years old. Considering that typically they only last 1-2 years i am very happy with how well she lived. 

Looking at the Betta Rubra at the moment as a potential project


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Rubra are great!!! Tell me if you want me to link you any articles.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks I have more than a few saved but more is always better. Anyways been busy setting up a little tank set up out of my spares. 










Would make a nice little Api Api tank, or more likely in the short term a plant grow out tank, also space in the stand for a 2.5G if I wanted









Will need to magnetise the door and strengthen the back of the stand and find an airstone for long term use as a tank however


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

I’m sorry about the mantis shrimp but it sounds like she had a pretty good life!


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## betta4ever! (Oct 5, 2021)

Ratvan said:


> Thanks I have more than a few saved but more is always better. Anyways been busy setting up a little tank set up out of my spares.
> 
> View attachment 1045196
> 
> ...


Not too much info on them, so you'll have most probably already read them, but I'll see if I can post them tomorrow. 


Yes, it would be a great api api tank!!!! Apis are soo cute!!! Well, all wilds are, but apis are one of my favourites. How many gallons, you said?


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Tank is 6G but the benefit of that thick top rim is that u can hide the water line down an inch and a half without it being spotted. So more like 5.5G I would say. 

Enough for Api Api pair I guess


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So since temperature has finally dipped into the high 90s and no longer 100s I nipped down to the local dried out stream and found a nice branch that's currently soaking 









Also I have a theory about generic moss under water, so let's see how that goes. Added also


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Rather disappointing trip to the New LFS, only thing of interest they had were freshwater vampire crabs. Cute but I have had enough of inverts for a little while. Had some nice pathos and peace lollies though for a good price so will pick those up later 

The moss that I scraped from a rock by the stream seems to be colouring up and doesn't yet seem to be affected by the buffering substrate (5.5ph) that I hid under thr capping layer and piles of slate.


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So been a busy day today while I should have been working from home. As I am changing jobs I need to move my reef tank from my work to my house. So I scourered facebook and found a 33.5G thank and cabinet for free. 









In the short term I'm going to use this as a transfer tank to move my fish and corals and rockwork into so I can move the tank without worrying about occupants. Once the reef tank is re established I will plant this one out for the macrostoma. 

Which means my little planted 5g is going to be unoccupied or might go for a "typical" betta fish









Got some java fern clippings and anubias on the way from another Facebook contact so at least I can get a start on the propagation of those


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Great find!!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

Looks better with rocks dumped in to maintain a cycle too


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

A few hours later, sand rinsed clean and added


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So need to reorganise my house to fit in my reef tank, this means moving the TV upstairs and replacing it with the reef tank, I think will look nice and cosy, especially in winter with the log burner going.









I only really use the TV for playing music anyway so not a real loss


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Oh, that will look nice!


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## Ratvan (Oct 31, 2018)

So change of plans once again, I'm getting a snowflake eel for the "new" temporary tank as the owner is leaving the country and wants it to go to an experienced reefer. He is a beauty though.









And only a baby at 10"


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Cool!!


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