# Possible sorority+community-based tank idea



## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

So, I have an idea of a sorority of 5 betta ladies and my son's community tank which is 4+ guppies (the + is the babies at any given time), 5 harlequin Rosaboras, and thinking about a school of 10 pigmey cories. This tank will be a 20 gallon long tank with a filter that has a rating of 100gph. I also have a backup 20 long that I could also divide if needed for the ladies, but would like the idea of a big community tank. Would this even be possible to do or is it just unrealistic? According to aquaadvisor, I would suitable filtration and size. The only warnings that popped up was about female betta being aggressive and about the guppy ratio. So I'm wanting to know if anyone has been successful with a simular situation and how did it work out for them? Like I said, I am fully prepared for an alternative such as a strictly sorority tank or a female divided tank. It will have tons of fake plants and plenty of hiding places, as my plan is for various decor with this one. If it is possible, and works out, then I would be able to space out my guys better because I would have freed up my 5 gallon, 10 gallon and have my 20 long available for the guys. Like I said though, if it doesn't work out in any way, I have plenty of room to meet everyone's needs.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Can't answer about the sorority but I do know Pygmy Cories are best in tanks with live plants.

Somewhere LittleBettaFish (I believe) posted photos of how heavily planted a tank should be to help keep down sorority aggression.

Could you put one of your boys in there, instead? I love my Betta-based community tanks. The only problem fish are the Neons which nip caudals.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

I would only have one guy who would be a possibility in a community tank, and that's fuhua. He is outgoing and hasn't flared one single time since I've had him. The only other non aggressive guy I have is shukie, but he isn't a good candidate because he is super shy about movements and I think he would spend his time hiding. And I read the thread that lbf wrote. Was wonderful btw. I've been floating the new girls around in the 5 gallon all day trying to get an idea of their "possible" aggression levels to see how reactive they possibly might be. I was planning on packing this tank with as may plants as I could possibly fit in it as well as decor. Like I said, I do have other options, but this was an idea that I would like to explore.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

As a group, my females would attack and kill any fish that went into their tank. Females can be just as aggressive as the males, and you really have to watch that they don't gang up on other fish. 

Personally, I think sororities work best when the only fish in the tank are female bettas. But I know other hobbyists probably sit on the opposite side of the argument, and as always with this hobby, you really have to see what works best for your fish. I just think sororities are such a high-stress and unpredictable environment anyway that sometimes it is best to keep things simple. 

This was one of my previous sororities, and this is the sort of density of planting I like to see with these tanks.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

So maybe just a divided girl tank??? I definitely wouldn't want to exasperated stress that could be avoided because as well all know, too much stress means certain death.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I used to be a huge fan of sororities. I used to recommend them as a way of keeping multiple females together and I wrote the sticky relating to sororities in the 'Betta Fish Care' section of the forum. 

However, after suffering the breakdown of my own sorority (my ammonia spiked due to a cycle crash), and having spent the next few years reading about disastrous happenings of other members' sorority tanks, my opinion on them has changed. 

They do seem to carry much more risk than a single betta in a community tank, and I no longer feel comfortable advising that members set them up. 

However, if a member is determined to have a sorority tank, I will certainly offer them assistance. Setting up a properly, does give you a better chance at success. 

Personally, nowadays I would advocate for a divided female betta tank over a sorority, but this is just my opinion.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Yeah, I spent the afternoon reading the entire thread and many more like it. It's kinda what sparked the possible idea of adding the community part as I didn't really see anyone bring it up. Like I said, I am fully prepared for various backup plans and alternatives. It was the entire reason that I only have 5 females, just in case it wasn't possible. That way I would have the space for them elsewhere instead of having to take them back and or rehome them. I'm not saying that I'm adamant on this idea and will not be told no, it was just that... an idea. I'm perfectly fine if it is a bad one and if I will end up with a female divided tank. I may do that any ways because I really don't like the idea of having to stand over the girls to play referee just to have dead fish or sick fish from being beaten up too badly.


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## TuiAndLa (Feb 23, 2012)

I have a new sorority that's doing amazingly! It is still early though (been a couple weeks or so since they've been together), but it started as one female betta (who I've had for a year) and 3 male platies.

I added 3 other female bettas and they all get along so well, it's like... I can't even describe. It's almost as if they're not even bettas. Not stressed out in the least. lol I have a 5th that I just got. She's still reaaaally tiny so I'm waiting for her to grow a bit while her container floats in the tank.

My platy boys pick and chase each other all the time, but my females never do. I'm about to add some female platies so I'm hoping things keep going well. I can't speak for a huge community tank though as it's just the bettas and platies I've got.

I value LittleBettaFish's advice since she's(?) been there and is experienced with it so she's probably the one to listen to. lol Maybe I just got really lucky, I don't really know.

Sorry to hear about your sorority failing with the ammonia spike, LBF. That's gotta be terrible to deal with. =/

So.... I think it can work anyway, but I do think there's a good portion of luck that goes with it, in what each fish's personality is like. One of my bettas I had bought was being aggressive and I believe she's the one who shredded Zero's fins and gave her a gash across her head (on the first day). So I took her out and returned her to the store (I explained and they were cool with accepting the return) and the others have been 110% great with each other since. I get so much joy seeing them all gather together, wanting my attention and looking cute as can be. lol


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

See, what I was thinking about was maybe the other fish could possibly spread out the aggressive behavior such as having a bunch more bettas. I guess like target fish kinda deal. (I think that's the right term, since it wouldn't be dither fish because not being used for bringing a shy fish out of hiding) So it's a possibility that I MIGHT try, but like I said, I have various backup plans just in case. The bettas might also help with the guppy fry numbers too??


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## TuiAndLa (Feb 23, 2012)

You mean like the other fish would sort of distract the bettas so that the aggression is spread out and not always directed at each other?

I think that's a good possibility and have wondered if that might be why my sorority works so well. They have platies to entertain them so it's not only themselves that they're always focused on. I have noticed them (mostly Bree) chasing the platies once in a while. Not seriously, just for "fun" seemingly. lol The bettas never chase each other though, except once in a while Bree might claim a small "territory" by the plant roots and chase anyone who gets too close. But it's so lighthearted/halfa**ed, I'm never worried about it. She can mingle with them all, they'll swim over each other, run into each other, trying to grab food, hang out together just for no reason, and they never even flare or chase or anything.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

That's exactly what I'm thinking. The others might help distract the girls and spread the aggressive behavior out so it's not just on the bettas.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Hate being a Debbie Downer but I've read more than my share of sorority tales on this forum and others and few survived a year. Or, those who started one simply dropped out and were never heard from again.

But one will never know unless one tries, will one? ;-)


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## TuiAndLa (Feb 23, 2012)

Yea, there's that. ^ lol

I'm sort of waiting for this moment in time when everything's gonna go to hell like all the horror stories you hear. xD But hey, it might never go badly, who knows. I don't think it'll hurt to try if you've got back up plans, like you said. :3


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

True. With alot of the threads I've read as well as other sites, most lasted a few good months and then one girl got pms and went ballistic. It would be great to have a lifelong success, but this isn't a perfect world. I'm just not positive that I'm willing to take that risk. I would never want to purposefully put any of my pets in serious danger just to have what I want.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

+1 ^ I agree completely.

BTW, if it helps, when I had a divided tank even though the males acted aggressive and flared at each other none of them ever harmed any of the rest of the community: Male Dwarf Panda Guppies, male Endlers, Pygmy and Habrosus Cories, Oto, Neons, Ember Tetra and Dwarf Crays. There was the occasional, half-hearted chase but nothing serious. The tank was divided for over a year. Now I have three Betta-based community tanks with Nanos, shrimp and Crays and have never had issues.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Young females, are often not particularly aggressive towards other females. It seems many females sold in pet and fish stores are young, or at least not fully mature, and this is some keepers may have few issues with serious aggression in the beginning. 

It's when the females start maturing that you have to keep a close eye on them as this is when problems start to arise. 

Betta splendens can be extremely erratic with their behaviour. A fish they will tolerate one day, is attacked or killed the next. 

I'm sure there are successful sororities that have lasted long-term. My sorority ran for around year without _too_ many issues, and it was only my soft water and a dodgy test kit that led to its breakdown. However, there also seem to be an equal number of sororities that fail, and when they fail, it's absolutely heartbreaking.


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## TuiAndLa (Feb 23, 2012)

Well I would think the chance of one actually going bat-crazy and killing the others out of nowhere one day would be a slim chance. You'd think you'd notice some issues going on first and be able to separate them/nix the sorority if things started going south.

I had always wanted to try a sorority but never did b/c of all the horror stories I read. But when my Petsmart started selling halfmoon girls who are gooorgeous, I totally caved. lol If you think about it though, you're gonna hear all the bad of a situation more-so than the good. When something goes bad, people tend to be quick to want to tell their story, but when things work out well, it's less often that those good stories will get out to the public. Who knows, it's possible that most sororities work out great in the long term and we aren't aware because the good stories aren't put out there like the bad ones are.

Or maybe I'm dead wrong and just being optimistic (I'm usually a pessimist). xD I'm prepared to separate my girls if it ever went badly. I would think that I'd notice something wrong before one of them randomly decided to kill all the others. Like with that one aggressive girl. I noticed quickly and took her out. Just do whatever you feel most comfortable with. Gonna have very different opinions from one person to the other. lol

Edit: @LittleBettaFish- I wondered about that also. Wondered if they might get more aggressive as they mature. Glad to know that can very well be the case, as now I'll be sure to keep an even closer watch for anything going south. I'm very quick to catch bad behavior. I feel very uncomfortable if any of my fish even nip the fins of another or are chasing/just not being relaxed. So if I see anyone being aggressive, I would definitely separate them.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Well, 4 out of 6 of my guys have either harmed/killed before (even if it was just a snail) or is way too shy or slow so I don't think that I could trust them to be in a community type setting. Rubbie is very aggressive towards movements of any kind and turned aggressive towards the little cory I had (armature mistake) so tankmates are definitely out for him. Seabiscuit is also aggressive towards movements and kills any and all snails that wonder into his section. Brady is too slow to get away from harrassment and my guppies can be a pain in the rear, and piccaso isn't aggressive but is too timid and very lazy to get away. Shukie is way to timid and shy. So fuhua is the only male candidate. He is outgoing and hasn't shown any signs of aggression or being territorial.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I have wild bettas who are not as aggressive as Betta splendens, and even they will sometimes go crazy and kill or maim one of the other fish in the tank right out of the blue. 

It just seems to be how bettas can be. Of course it doesn't happen all the time. In fact it's usually disease brought on by stress or improper quarantine that wipes out most sororities rather than aggression, but it is a possibility. 

These are territorial and aggressive fish after all. Forcing them to live in unnaturally close confines will always skirt that fine line between success and disaster.


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## TuiAndLa (Feb 23, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I have wild bettas who are not as aggressive as Betta splendens, and even they will sometimes go crazy and kill or maim one of the other fish in the tank right out of the blue.


Yikes.... well...... well, I don't know then. lol Good points though. I wish it was as easy to read subtle signals in fish as it is with dogs to prevent something bad happening in the first place. xD


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

I can completely see that maturity would have alot to do with things. To babies, thier main objective in life is eating and growing. Adults, it's more about personal space and rules. Not trying to humanize them, but little girl priorities are alot less dangerous than a woman's. There's a reason for the saying that Hell*hath*no fury like a woman scorned.


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Wow. I'm sorry but I've got to share something on this subject. I got a response from someone elsewhere whom is supposed to be a breeder and very "knowledge" that my idea wouldn't work because I shouldn't have more fish than I have gallons. If that rule still applied, then I could have all 5 girls in my 5 gallon. Geez, even I know that rule is pretty much outdated and doesn't apply to every situation.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Breeder doesn't = knowledge. People who have puppy mills call themselves "breeders." :-(


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## rubbie5837 (Dec 22, 2014)

Exactly. I replied as politely as I possibly could. And everyone here knows how hard it is for me to hold my tongue. But, in my eyes, I was polite.


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