# Urgent: Tank in crisis, don't know if my betta is "bloated"



## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

What size is your tank? 10 g
What temperature is your tank? 77F
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? yes
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 3 cories

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? NLS pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3-4 pellets once daily

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 40%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API stresscoat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:7.6
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Belly looks a bit bloated
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not much, is face gets pale more often which might be stress
When did you start noticing the symptoms? a couple weeks
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Fasting 1-2 days at a time
Does your fish have any history of being ill? fin biting
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1 year


Hello. I am having a BIG problem with my tank right now, my cories are getting sick, I've posted on about 5 forums for help in diagnosing them. One started twitching and his spine started to curl. It came down to parasites which I am trying to treat for. He probably will die, but that is only part of the problem. No one could figure out was wrong because there weren't any well known diseases that fit the description of my fish.

My betta has not shown any behavioral differences, but for the past couple weeks his belly looked a bit full, (before my cory got sick) so I reduced his food intake. His stomach looks a bit irregular, but he has been defecating every couple days. I am uncertain whether he is bloated looking and that I should worry. It's very possible he also has parasites, but I have not tried peas or salt. I don't know if trying salt is a good idea now that I am using metroplex and prazipro. I have some pictures of my betta. Any advice on what I should do next would be most helpful. I have been struggling to get this tank under control for almost a week now. I feel like I have been doing a terrible job taking care of my fish, but I know I have been trying my best. 

http://i61.tinypic.com/2qa4c40.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/33cbqdv.jpg


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I wouldn't medicate right now. Bloating often doesn't require meds. He looks a bit bloated so I would just fast him for 3 days or so. 

Next I am concerned because based on your photos he has some nasty fin rot? is this true? That needs to be treated right away. 

I am also concerned about your water testing results. All three should never be 0.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> ...I am also concerned about your water testing results. All three should never be 0.


lol, tell that to my matured tanks, all of my tanks have never shown ammonia/nitrite/nitrate after the initial cycle. Due to all my plants though. But I digress.

I agree on everything else said, that fin rot is real nasty and needs antibiotics quick to hopefully stop the progression. KanaPlex is what I'd suggest first, if you can't order it online then maybe Triple Sulfa, Maracyn I and II combined, Furan-2, or Tetracycline. I listed them in order of what I believe would work best to least.


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## Kisiel (Jul 30, 2014)

It looks like rather advanced fin rot. You mentioned he has a history of fin biting. When bettas bite their tail, you _must_ ensure that their water is absolutely perfect. The damaged fins of a betta are more prone to catch fin rot after an episode of biting which is why the water must be pristine. 

I suggest moving him to a smaller QT tank and doing 100% daily water changes to help him recover, along with what lol surging suggested. You could float it in your main tank if you don't have a spare heater.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

They are 0 because I just changed the tank water, but it usually only goes up to about 10-20 ppm Nitrates between weekly water changes. His fin looks messed up I know, but I have made a post about that issue over a month ago. I didn't get any responses about the black edges, just to treat with kanaplex. I did treat him with kanaplex, 2 rounds to be exact, spaced a week apart. This is relatively "safe" according to seachem's website.

You see, his tail was growing back and he bit a HUGE part of it off. After that I seemed like his tail was growing so slow. I was worried that the blackness was fin rot, but as time progresses I don't think it is. Why? His scales have started to get darker as well and I think it's a part of his coloration at this point. I actually took a new picture of him a few days ago because I had this exact concern, that it was black fin rot and there was no fin growth, but there was. I just couldn't see it. I'll post a pic. 










In the pic on the right his fin isn't even fully flared like the left, so it's not showing all the new growth. I'll try fasting again. He got even more bloated in the evening before bed because I was trying to treat my cories with metroplex bloodworms. Next time I'm keeping him seperated...


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Compare at the distance between the edge of the fin and the caudal peduncle in both photos. He is rapidly losing the fin. There is no question that that is fin rot and he needs treatment immediately.

I'm also seeing a bloody lesion in the photo taken on the 28th. Bump up the temperature to 80-82° and start doing daily water changes. You might also consider treating him with some aquarium salt to sterilize the wound.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

I have to revise my post again because now that I compare I see that it has gotten worse over the past few days. I'm not sure what to do. I thought it was getting better... I am already worrying about my cory cats and now this too. I'm starting to panic because I see how far it is advancing. I thought the color that was returning in the middle picture was growth, but it doesn't seem to be. Or it came back with a vengeance when I stopped treatment. Please help.

I'm treating the cory cats for parasites and they are improving and I fear salt will complicate things. I only have a small plastic tub to separate him out. What should I do? I don't know if cranking up the heat will mess with the cories recovery. UGHHH. SHould I start again with kanaplex in a separate tank?


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Sorry to double post, but it won't let me edit anything. I wish I could change the title to advanced fin rot. So I found a 3 gallon container, it's not filled all the way, but it's all I have. I tried to make it more like home. I put in my 50 watt aqueon adjustable heater. I don't know how slowly I should be bringing the temperature up. I have epsom salt, kanaplex, aquarium salt and frozen blood worms. I'm not sure if I should soak kanaplex in blood worms because he is already bloated. Apparently kanaplex didn't work too well when I was treating with just tank water, but it could've been my fault, as I didn't clean the tank as often as I should've. When I started treating, my heater broke, so there were two days without temp regulation. I continued treatment for quite a while after that and stopped after 6 doses because I didn't want to damage the fish. I thought he was improving, but I just wasn't paying attention to the receding and looked at the color.

The past two weeks the water has been pristine, but I guess it wasn't enough. Can I put the cover over it, with a crack, not sealed of course, just in case my cat runs in? Here is what I have so far.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

That's a big improvement. I would suggest the cover to keep the heat and humidity in. You could always drill some holes in it to let air in and keep cats out.

Let the heaters thermostat acclimate to the water before plugging it in, it will be more accurate that way. Keep a close eye on the temperature when you do plug it in. I have the same heater a it runs a little on the low side. You can set it to the desired temperature right away. I will take hours to reach optimal temperature.

Kanaplex will be more effective when mixed with food.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Would it be safe to use kanaplex and the salt together? Should I worry about bloating my fish if I mix it with worms? Thanks for helping.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Epsom salt would be better for the bloating. It should be OK with the Kanaplex. But why are you using the Kanplex again? Your corys were having trouble with parasites, correct? Kanaplex is for bacterial infections not internal parasites. I would do an Epsom salt treatment with frequent water changes for the bloat & fin rot. If it's parasitic, try API general cure


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Oh, they mentioned something about using kanaplex for fin rot, so that's why I thought I'd try again. I wasn't sure if my betta has them too, so I can either continue treating with metroplex, try kanaplex for bacterial fin rot, or just continue with salt and fresh water. What do you recommend? My betta went and scraped his head, I went to check on him and a scale on his head is missing. I know it wasn't there a few minutes ago, so I guess I should take the rock out. I don't know what happened. Argh. I was getting paranoid and thinking it was hole in head, but it just appeared like magic. He's never scraped himself like that before, so weird.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I don't really see much bloating. Maybe a better picture from the side? The fin rot is pretty severe so I would tackle that first. I think if you need clean, warm water. Up the temperature, perform frequent water changes and provide a source of tannin, he should improve. Salt will only sterilize an open wound, it's not going to cure the rot. Indian Almond Leaves are the preferred source of tannin. They are going to be hard to find on such short notice. Look for decaffeinated Rooibos tea. You can probably find it at a local supermarket. As far as medication goes, go with the Kanaplex for the fin rot as Lil first suggested.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

I will try those things. His belly does look better than yesterday. I have a question though. What does raising the temperature do?


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

It's going to boost his metabolism and speed up the healing process.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

yes, he is bloated. I would fast him for a few days.

raising the temperature will not only help the health of your fish but also raise the metabolism. cold water slows metabolism making it harder for him to digest food. I find that 80-82 is the sweet spot. I rarely let my tanks get lower than that.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Okay. Should I be concerned about that thing on his head?


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Last question: Should I feed kanaplex and dose it into the water? After that I'll have to just watch him closely and hope for the best.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Vivian's advice about fasting is spot on as always, but I think the Kanaplex might be more effective when it is administered with food.

I wouldn't worry about the spot on his head at this point.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I agree with both, instead of feeding him his normal meal just soak 2-3 pellets in the KanaPlex and try to feed him that each day so it's a lessor amount but still enough to get the KanaPlex in and be more effective.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Okay, just so I understand, should I fast 3 days, then dose meds in his food? I bought some rooibos tea last night and put it in his tank. I have the tank covered slightly with a towel so it's kinda dark, I heard that helps. He made a bubble nest today, so hopefully that means he's comfortable. Color has returned to his face as well. It's about 80F now.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

lilnaugrim suggested that you feed him a lesser amount, 2-3 pellets a day dosed with Kanplex, starting right away. It's less food to help with the bloating but he still will get the benefits of the medication. It's the best of both worlds.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Okay. Can I save the water I soaked the medicine in for reuse? I soaked some of the pellets in too long and he had a hard time eating it. Is 5 minutes okay? 

How long should I wait to change medicine if it isn't working? It's so close to his body I'm getting really nervous. Over the past few days (before I put him in quarantine) it seems to have accelerated. Are the black edges dead tissue? I'm wondering why kanaplex was ineffective when I treated him in the main tank, so I am unsure if it would be effective on him now and that I should be trying a different medication since time is so short. Thanks for the support.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Give the kanaplex 10 days and keep up with the water changes. I would not use the medicated water for more than 1 day. Kanaplex is your best option. Yes, the black edges are dead tissue.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Alright. So I took some pictures to see if there is any change. I know I shouldn't expect too much in this amount of time. I wanted to see if it was spreading or not. It was hard taking pictures in tea-colored water, so I had to "adjust" the color a bit. I don't trust myself anymore to judge the fin, so opinions would be appreciated.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

It looks like it's progressing. You are treating him with antibiotics which are the best thing for him. I'm not sure what else you could do except continue with the Kanaplex and keep up on the water changes. Using Kanaplex is the most aggressive treatment you can do at this point. Some people will say to use aquarium salt but I feel it's progressed far beyond that. I'm not sure about mixing medications, perhaps someone with more experience can jump in and advise.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Ugh.  That is bad news. Does that mean I should stop using the salt? If kanaplex is ineffective, perhaps I should try a different antibiotic?


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi Alyssum and Mike! Sorry to hear about the betta and cories. 

If I could make a suggestion, since kanamycin isn't having an effect, it's possible you've got an antibiotic resistant strain or a viral infection. Try treating with Seachem Paraguard. (Yes, this sounds strange, but hear me out...) The new generation of drugs is using chemically reactive compounds (some super secret Seachem aldehyde) to target a wide range of pathogens and bypass the antibiotic resistance problem with bacteria. Sort of a silver bullet. I would stop the kanamycin and try a full round of Paraguard. Just do your usual water changes, Paraguard should not react with the roobios or the leftover kanamycin. (Wouldn't hurt to try this on the cories either, just remove any carbon filters before hand and keep the tank/tub dark and warm.

Edit: Because Paraguard is reactive, it'll a rougher (more stressful) treatment compared to antibiotics.

Edit2: Almost forgot, don't do the water change and dose with Paraguard at the exact same time. The dechlorinator and Paraguard are both reducing agents, I'd wait at least 1hour or do one in the morning and one at night.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. At this point I am very nervous about trying more medicines because time is so short. Every day is precious. I should have known that kanaplex was not working...I heard all the praises about it so I thought it would be a simple treatment. But now it has progressed this far. I'd like to try your treatment, but I feel I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

I know this is pretty controversial here, but I am considering surgery. I know it is ill-advised for newer fish owners such as myself, but I feel if I let it progress further there won't be anything left to save and my window will close. I am not worried about hurting him because he eats his own fins with wild abandon, which triggered this mess to begin with. I am not saying I will do it, but I am defintely considering it as an option because it's either these last two treatments or slow death. 

To me it makes sense from a medical stand point, sometimes doctors have to amputate with aggressive bacteria and rotting flesh. I'd like to know more about this option so if I do do it, I'm well informed. I know I would have to sedate him and all instruments must be sterilized as well as his hospital tank. I suppose technically the infection still might linger, but I figure it will buy me time to give him more treatments.

My cories are recovering, though they seem to be having swim bladder problems. I used prazipro and metroplex which seemed to have worked miracles on my paralyzed cory. He still twitches, but he is much better than he was. This has all been so stressful and I feel like such a bad fishkeeper because all of this. It's all bad timing as well. 

Have you heard of success stories with paraguard for fin rot? It is risky to try this rather than another antibiotic, but as you said this bacteria is resistant. Let me know what you think.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Some diseases are easy to identify and I'd be comfortable saying "Do X, Y, Z and we're all good." To be honest, all I have is a hypothesis here, a very strong hunch about what's going on, but I have no way to be 100% sure. I can tell you what I think, but I can't make this call.

If you look in my photo albums, you'll see one labeled DGIV-like disease (FYI it's not the prettiest). There's also a sticky at the top of this forum titled " IMPORANT: Watch For These Disease Signs" 

I believe these are all cases of an iridivirus that has crossed host species and started to infect bettas. For whatever reason, it seems to hit blue bettas much, much harder, but all bettas can get it. It usually starts with a dark discoloration of the fin edge that travels towards the body. It doesn't respond to any of the standard drugs. Later on, partial paralysis of the back half of the fish develops, difficulty swimming paired with a sort of spasm/shiver motion and lethargy. Death is very rapid (24-72h) in blue bettas. I think someone in the stickied thread said they had a (red?) betta survive but later relapsed and died.

The key difference is your betta isn't falling over dead like the blue bettas. So either it's not an iridivirus, in which case, amputation might work, but you'd have to put him in a brand new tank and avoid cross contamination with any of your old equipment/fishnets/water/etc. Or it is an iridivirus but there's something different about your betta, the virus, or the environment that is slowing the infection. If it is an iridivirus, amputation won't work since it's already in his system, and we're in unexplored territory.

Sorry, it's late at night for me, I'll try and check this thread during the day tomorrow.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

I remember reading that thread months ago because I found it very interesting. I never thought it might be that, I hope not. This has been progressing for at least 2 months, so I assumed it is some kind of fin rot. I guess I don't have anything to lose in any case. If I do decide to trim it, should I treat him with another antibiotic while he is recovering or just salt to sterilize the wound? I'm reading more about it and it's rather straight forward, but there are differing opinions on how to treat the wound after trimming, though t. I am aware of the risk, but I think desperate times call for desperate measures.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Thank you for a fresh perspective Zhylis, I really appreciate it. This is a rough one.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I really don't believe there is a medication at the moment that can truly treat this. I do believe that it is a bacteria since it acts like a bacteria (not trying to discredit you at all Zhylis, just noting what I've seen). It progresses the exact same way regular Fin Rot does so I feel that it is some sort of variation of Fin rot.

If it were a virus then if the user has other fish, it'd be spreading to that but in the cases I've seen either they've been single-owned fish or it was targeted specifically at the one fish. Water parameters plays a big role at first just like Fin Rot, once an opening is opened up for the bacteria, it jumps in and starts its infection. The first month or so it's fairly slow progressing but as it reaches the body it seems to speed up in the threads I've seen of them.

I'll see if I can round up all the threads I've been a part of with this exact type of rotting.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

No problem at all, lilnaugrim! The more brains on this the better in my opinion. Like I mentioned, all I have is a hypothesis on this one. It's the resistance to kanamycin that is worrying!


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Quick side note, shhhh I'm working really...

I recalled why I thought it was a virus! I saw another post of Alyssum's earlier in the month about the 3 Sterbai cories that were in with her betta (different forum). I recently watched some sort of pathogen utterly demolish one of my pet bettas in 24h and was trying to learn what the heck it was.

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php...lp-sterbai-cory-paralysis-twitching-seizures/

I thought the symptoms from the cories sounded a lot like what I saw happen to my betta and further research suggested something like DGIV.

OK back to work. Sigh.

Edit: I have some links saved on my PC at home. More info later...


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks for all the insight guys. It is all very confusing and hard to discern whether the cories' sickness is related to my betta's treatment resistant fin rot. My betta has not exhibited any other signs of illness, just the bloating. My cory turned sick like a flip of a switch. I think my cories have parasites because I'm treating with prazipro and metro which seems to have dramatically improved my paralyzed cory. I don't know if he will continue to improve as he still twitches. They also seem to be having some kind of balance problem, doesn't have to necessarily be the swim bladder, as the parasites themselves might be causing it. 

I had Percy in there during the first couple days of treatment for parasites and saw no change. I can't say for certain, but it almost seems like his rot accelerated. Could be coincidence.

I have decided I'm going to take the route of surgery since time is short and I don't think using medications will act fast enough. I have already bought the supplies. I am wondering if I should just have him with salt to heal his wound or treat him with a medication. I have access to basically all API and seachem medicines. Right now I have triple sulfa and furan-2, because I wasn't sure what to buy. Perhaps this is a gram positive bacteria which is why the kana didn't work. Because I was unsure of which medicine to use, my plan is to do the surgery and have him in a salt bath. I'd like your guys' input on what I should treat him with after surgery. He is already going to be very stressed so I hope the medication would be too hard on him (if he doesn't die of a heart attack first).


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Good luck!

I would avoid the salt and go straight for the Furan2. Just going off the top of my head, antibiotics either kill bacteria (bactericidal) or prevent them from multiplying (bacteriostatic). I'm pretty sure TripleSulfa is Bstatic and Furan2 contains 3 things, one Bstatic and one Bcidal and I forget the third.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks. I hope this all goes well. I will have assistance from others to make it as quick as possible. One question: How do I split these powder packets for 1 gallon treatments? It says 10 gal each packet. Not sure if the instructions would apply the same either. "repeat dose after 24 hours then change 25% and repeat for 4 doses."


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

I managed to split it into 8 with a scooper, which I hope will be good enough. It'd be treating 1.25 gallons, but I don't think it'd be enough to overdose him...


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

You should be fine at that dosage, Alyssum. I've gone up to 2x without problems (but I wouldn't recommend 2x here.) I would suggest dissolving it in a cup first before adding it to the tank. It takes a little bit of mixing to get it into solution otherwise.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Would it be safe to have the rooibos tea in with the furan? He is in tea water right now so I'd like to reduce as many changes as possible.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

So I believe the operation was a success! It isn't pretty to look at, but we tried to remove as much dead tissue as possible. I think I missed a tiny bit, so we might have to cut that off too, but it was hard to see when it's not magnified. The rot was so bad the fin was falling apart as we laid him down on the paper towels. It blackened the tissue like ink. It was pretty gross. He bled a bit after cutting and after returning to the tank, but it has clotted and he is fine now. We applied an antiseptic after cutting the tissue. He was obviously shaken afterwards. Our little patient seems okay now for the most part. His color his coming back and he is floating near the top as usual. I just hope this grows back or at least he lives. I also noticed he dropped a massive clump of feces (long before we did the surgery). I don't even know how it was possible. He must have been really backed up. He still seems a bit bloated. Please let me know if I missed any rot and if he looks bloated. Warning, these pictures are GROSS and possibly disturbing, but if you're curious, here it is. I know it gives me goosebumps.

Post-Op Percy

http://i57.tinypic.com/op385v.jpg

Removed fin

http://i60.tinypic.com/i69eop.jpg

Feces

http://i60.tinypic.com/2chntcn.jpg


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I don't think leaving the tea in will cause any problems.
What a brave decision, good job Alyssum.

Fingers crossed for Percy.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Tea is fine. Also good to hear Percy survived the last 24h! Looks like a nice clean cut of the fin. The black stuff that smeared all over is dead (necrotic) flesh (or fin rather). It's hard to tell from the picture, but I think you got most/all of it trimmed off. It looks like you cut the bottom 2/3 of his tail parallel to the tail base and the top 1/3 of his tail at a slight angle. Where those two cuts meet, is that a shadow or more black?


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks guys. A bit of black tissue was left on the upper part of the fin. I inspected the pre-op picture and noticed that spot, where the rotting tissue was closest to the body and that is the part we missed. Reluctantly, I took him out again and cut that bit. I couldn't risk it spreading over night. It was so nerve wracking. I was shaking like a leaf (not a good thing when you have sharp objects), but I got it done. I felt so bad to do that, but relieved it is over. I hope I see some new fin growth so I know he is on the road to recovery. 

I like saying surgery because it makes me feel like a surgeon :lol: I say "we" because my boyfriend did the first surgery and I did the second. We used extremely sharp sterilized barber scissors, so the one he did was one clean, crisp snip, but it lacked the precision to get that little bit because it was one cut. At first I wanted to neatly cut around the dead fin, but that would have taken too long and we might've missed more.

I'll put in some tea in to help calm him. Hope he makes it tonight. Should I feed him a blood worm as a treat or regular food?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Wow, very strange to see a fin like that cut off haha. I'm glad he's doing well though!! Fingers crossed we start to see some regrowth now!

Yes, tea will absolutely help him and help keep the wound decently clean as well. You can also use a small dosage of aquarium salt to help sterilize the wound as well while the Furan-2 keeps the bacteria at bay. I'd use 1 tsp per every 5 gallons for the AQ salt, it's enough to change the salinity slightly to keep bacteria at bay but also to sterilize the wound to close it and start it's healing process. It's also beneficial for the kidneys and liver!


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Definitely feed him small amounts of whatever he normally wants eat! Just remove any uneaten food to keep the tank as clean as possible. 

Just a note to the forum: 
Take home message: Usually it's best to stick with one treatment, unless you know how it's going to interact with the other drugs or the betta's environment.

This is a very specific situation where using multiple treatments at the same time can be helpful. Since the damage is so close to the tail base, we wanted to stop any possible spread into the body. Both the tannin and the salt inhibit bacterial growth in different ways; the tannin is also a gentle way to reduce the pH. The nitrofurazone is Furan2 (a stronger antibiotic) is also more effective at lower pH. And none of these three things will neutralize the effects of the other treatments. 

Here's to a quick recovery for Percy!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

+1 on that explanation Zhylis!


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Unfortunately my little Percy didn't make it through the night. I guess I got a bit "greedy" when I did that second cut, instead of letting him rest. I think the shock and stress after that was too much for him. I want to kick myself so much for pushing it like that. I'm not sure he would have survived either way, but the tough thing about him dying this way is that you pushed him there instead of letting an unknown bacteria kill him without intervention. I know I had good reasons for doing the second surgery like I did, but you never really fully put thigns in perspective until after everything has settled. I still think the surgery was a very viable method. He was always skittish at times and easily stressed. This is really hard to write...My other fish are still sick too, not sure if they will recover. I'd be afraid to get another betta, fearing he will just bite his fins again...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No, no, no, you did not kill him and did not assist the bacteria. More than likely the bacteria already reached the body but not the physical rot if that makes sense. I don't think there was anything that you did that could have prevented it, if you didn't do it he would have died from the rot, if you did at least he had a chance.

I'm sorry about Percy though, I know it's difficult losing a fish no matter how long you may have had him. I've lost plenty in the two and a half years I've been fish keeping and that's not even very long. At least he'll swim in peace now, under the rainbow bridge  You did everything you could and went above and beyond the call, that's what makes a good fish keeper.


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## CopperBell (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about your fish. You really tried your best and did everything you could.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I'm so sorry Alyssum, this is a major bummer. You really did the best you could for him.

SIP Percy


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank you all for your kind words. I've been crying all day, I can't believe he is gone. I can't look at his body, it's too hard.  I wanted him to live so badly, more so than my other fish, as bad as that may sound. Bettas just have more personality, you know  He was my favorite and he got me back into fish keeping. Everything happened so fast...I thought "oh fin rot it's no problem, some medicine and he'll be all better". I was worried more about my cories than him and didn't expect he'd be the one to die. He was acting so healthy and ate his food before the surgery. He recovered again afterwards, which is why I feel so guilty when I took him out that second time. I was so afraid it'd spread and I didn't want to put that stress on him again later, but it was just a bad call. He didn't look good that second time and didn't want to eat, so I knew something was wrong and I prepared myself for the worst. I had that sinking feeling in my gut that I had pushed him too far and killed him. 

I had a betta before, years ago, that I "saved" from a dollar store named Herman. He didn't bite his fins or do the weird things Percy did, so I was really thrown for a loop this time around. Herman was more "beautiful" and less scraggly looking, so they had really different personalities. 

Herman died from some kind of bloat, but at the time I didn't know what was wrong. I didn't know about this website, so I felt like I failed again today. I did most things "wrong" when I had Herman, I kept him a little bowl at room temperature for a while, but eventually moved him to a two gallon, but had no heater, large plants and used soap to clean his tank. I fed him freeze dried blood worms often which is probably what did him in. I was so crushed when he died because I had him for over a year. It's hard to get people to understand that fish can become your family too, so I am glad I have you all here. My boyfriend loved that fish very much as well, so it was hard to have him look to see he was dead this morning...I couldn't look myself. He remained silent for a long time, inspecting the tank as I looked away, so I knew Percy was gone. I keep hoping he'll come back to life and be his energetic self.

I wanted him to live to "old age", but I have to take comfort in knowing I gave him a life that 99% of fish never get to have. It's nice to get it off my chest and just mourn. :-(


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't know if you are into regular plants or anything but I've taken to burying my important fish in pots and grow my plants in them. But it's just a nice symbol for me, though doesn't really work if you don't have house plants. But it's a nice sentiment


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

That is a good idea. It might be depressing to look at because it'll remind me of him, but in time I'll think of the good memories. It's either that or bury him by the little pond/lake near our house. Ugh this is hard to talk about  I buried Herman under an orange tree at my family home.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm sorry. Yeah, we buried our old cats under our Tulip tree so that's definitely a viable place under a nice tree or bush or by some flowers


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Ooooh no. I'm so sorry to hear about Percy. You really put up a good fight on his behalf, too. He was definitely a trooper!

That's a beautiful idea with the plant, too.


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank you. I'm gonna be depressed for a while I think. I didn't want him to die like that, in trauma. What can I do now though? I already feel a void. I'd like to get a new fish because we have all this stuff (after sterilization of course), but it's hard not to feel guilt, like you're replacing them. I've decided to bury him under a tree at my bf's grandparents house, so at least it's not public property (we live an apartment). Thanks again everyone. I still want to stick around here cause I love bettas, even though I've only had 3 in my 25 years of life  Poor betta I had when I was 6 barely had water changes in a little bowl. Bless his soul. Children should never have fish


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

But you won't be replacing him, you'll be giving life to a new betta who deserves it. I'm not saying to get him now but when you find him, you'll know


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## Alyssum (Jan 26, 2014)

That is true. I already see a very pretty one on aquabid I like, but it's snowing out now, so it probably is not safe to order a fish. I miss Percy so much already


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