# Beginner questions (for 5 gallon tank)



## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

Hi everyone! I just made an account on this site hoping I can get some help and make some friends along the way. 

I bought a small male betta fish last week. I've never owned any fish before, so I've been heavily researching within this past week to make sure my betta is living well. (Jeb Jeb lives in a 5 gallon filtered tank kept at 78 ° F.) 

I eventually want to buy a couple of other fish (maybe in a month or so) to house with him. I was thinking maybe four tetras or white mountain minnows, or even an otocinclus. 

What combinations would you guys recommend for a 5 gallon tank? ^__^ 

(Note: I think my betta fish is pretty laid-back. His aquarium is on a stand near a mirror. I had to cover the mirror because he was so fascinated with his own reflection. He just liked to stare at himself and swim around admiring himself. Of course, he could be totally different with other fish!)

This is my current setup:


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I personally think if you want to add fish to your betta tank, it should be at least 10 gallons. 

White cloud mountain minnows are active schooling fish that would require more space than a 5 gallon tank, and their ideal temperature range is lower than that of a Betta splendens. 

Otocinclus, also prefer to live in groups. They also need a constant supply of food, usually in the form of soft algae and diatoms, although most seem to transition over to algae wafers/blanched zucchini. Having owned them in the past, it would not take a group long at all to completely consume all the algae in a 5 gallon tank. They are also surprisingly active fish, and like the white cloud mountain minnows, I think a 5 gallon doesn't give them an adequate footprint. 

The majority of tetras are the same. 

There are very small species of fish such as ember tetras, green neon tetras, and boraras brigittae that some hobbyists do keep in 5 gallon tanks. It's not something I would do personally, but they are more suitable than any of the species you have listed in your original post.

However, these fish are extremely sensitive to poor water quality. Ideally, you would only want to introduce them into a cycled, mature tank.


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## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

Thank you for your reply! I couldn't really find much information about what fish would go well with my sort of tank. I read the BettaFish101 website and got all my fish I listed from there. 

I'll look into the small species of fish you listed~~


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you are interested in finding out about the requirements of certain species, a great reference site is SeriouslyFish. 

It gives you things like ideal temperature range/conditions, compatibility with other fish, and minimum tank size. 

They have hundreds of species of fish listed on there. All you have to do is type the common or scientific name of the fish into the search bar and most will come up.


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## kevinap2 (Apr 3, 2014)

JebJeb said:


> (Note: I think my betta fish is pretty laid-back. His aquarium is on a stand near a mirror. I had to cover the mirror because he was so fascinated with his own reflection. He just liked to stare at himself and swim around admiring himself. Of course, he could be totally different with other fish!)


I'm not saying what I'm about to say to rain on your parade. I just want to make you aware of something you're doing (which is pretty common among new fish owners). The above statement is anthropomorphism. Your fish does not have any idea that he is looking at a reflection of himself. He doesn't have any concept of self, like you and I do. He thinks it's another fish, and he is trying to establish his territory and figure out if that fish is a threat.

If you do go ahead and try more fish in this tank, you will need to watch it very carefully for signs of aggression. However, I would not encourage tankmates. First, as LBF said, the tank you have is too small for other fish. Second, bettas are solitary fish. They do not make friends, and they do not need companionship. They don't get lonely. They are often happiest without other fish around, and they are content to get all of the companionship they need from looking out the side of their tank at you from time to time.


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## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

kevinap2 said:


> I'm not saying what I'm about to say to rain on your parade.


I know he doesn't think it's his own reflection. That's why I think he might be okay with other fish since he's not trying to bash his own brains out against the glass. But, like I said, it probably doesn't mean he's laid-back or anything >_< 

I also didn't say I think he'd get lonely. I just want more fish! (Haha. I think it'd be cool to see how they interact with each other, too, as long as it's not violent o__o) 

I might not get any, though, after reading what you guys said.


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## Overprotective Fish Lover (Apr 11, 2015)

You can always get a snail, if you feel the urge to have another living _something_ in your tank. You can get some really pretty mystery snails, and chances are your fish will leave it alone. Not that I have one. I want one, though...I've been stalking them in the pet store (creepy, right? dun, dun, dun...snail stalker).


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## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

Overprotective Fish Lover said:


> You can always get a snail, if you feel the urge to have another living _something_ in your tank.


Hahahaha! I can imagine the snails huddling up like STRANGER DANGER! xD

I do the same thing with anything. I was at GameStop last year just stalking the games there. When an employee asked me if I needed help I said "Nope! I don't even have a ps4 yet... So..." He just laughed at me. 

When I was at PetsMart looking at betta fish, tanks and accessories, I think an employee thought I was trying to steal something since I was there for like an hour and didn't get anything (I came back the next day). She just kind of followed me around lol!

ANYWAY.

Snails are pretty cute and a good idea! I have no idea what taking care of a snail entails though. What do they eat o__o I'll have to look into it~


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## Overprotective Fish Lover (Apr 11, 2015)

Ha, ha...you stalk video games, I stalk snails...we're so normal...

As I said, I don't have any snails, so I'm afraid I can't give you too much advice concerning them. But I can give you a brief outline based on my research.

There are two basic types of snails found at your average pet store: mystery snails and nerite snails. The mystery snails can get as big as a golf ball...the nerites are considerably smaller.

Nerite females lay unfertilized eggs (like a chicken) which are difficult to scrape off. I don't think you can tell girls from guys. I'm not sure if mystery snail females lay unfertilized eggs...I don't think so. But it's possible to get one that's already pregnant from being at the pet store.

Nerites are escape artists - they often get into filters, and out of uncovered tanks. Mystery snails don't generally leave the water (except to lay eggs). Nerites are excellent algea eaters...mysteries, not so much. They both eat leftover food, though. Mystery snails produce more waste than nerite snails do.

If you don't have enough leftover food to feed the snails (which, with one fish, you probably won't) you can feed them algae wafers, cucmbers, spinach, or zucchini.

There's more stuff you should probably know, but that's it for my knowledge. I suggest you do some more research...you could start another thread on it and get some info from people who have snails. Good luck!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

First, Welcome to the Forum!

There are small shoaling fish that would work in your five gallon if:

It is a lot more heavily planted with live plants
It is not so bright (floating plants would take care of that)
It is at least a month or two past being cycled so parameters are stable
You have an API Master Test Kit and Seachem Prime
You have a back up plan should your Betta prefer to live as a bachelor

If you meet all of the above 7-10 Rasbora would work. Another option would be a couple of African Dwarf Frogs. You must have a lid if you keep them.

Read this to familiarize yourself with how to cycle a tank. The only place I differ is I prefer to do a 25% water change when Ammonia or Nitrites reach .25ppm instead of the suggested 50% at 50ppm:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=507585


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## myexplodingcat (Apr 9, 2014)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> First, Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> There are small shoaling fish that would work in your five gallon if:
> 
> ...


+1


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## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

Overprotective Fish Lover said:


> There's more stuff you should probably know, but that's it for my knowledge. I suggest you do some more research...you could start another thread on it and get some info from people who have snails. Good luck!


Thanks for some info on the snails, Overprotective Fish Lover! I don't know if a snail would be great for my kind of tank though xD (Considering it does have an opening in the lid, and my filter is inside the tank! Haha. I'd be constantly watching my tank to make sure no funny snail-ninja business was happening!) The mystery snails might be too big o__o If you get any of the snails you stalk, though, you should definitely tell me about your experience :3 

For now, I'm going to focus on putting some live plants in my tank before I put anything else in there with my betta. (Side note: I got super excited this morning. When I woke up, my betta was making his first actual bubble nest. Before he was just spouting out five or so at a time. I was so excited I sent photos to my sisters and my friends. They all thought I was crazy. So I had to share this news with a fellow betta owner!! Hahaha.) 



RussellTheShihTzu said:


> First, Welcome to the Forum!


Thank you for welcoming me! I'm glad I joined. I've already learned so much and everyone has been super friendly :3 

I was actually researching earlier this morning on putting in some live plants for my betta. (I'll still have to do loads more. Feel free to point me in any direction/guide I can follow!) So I'll focus on that, after I get my API Master Test Kit and make sure I get the cycling process down. Again, I can't thank you enough for informing me on cycling. It's very complex and scary sounding to me @[email protected] (I've actually just been changing my water constantly to try to avoid it >__<.) I hope I don't mess it up somehow.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

This may make you feel more at ease. 

A five gallon actually only holds about four gallons after you factor in equipment, substrate and decor. Just remove one gallon (25%) twice a week until you get your test kit. Easy peasy. 

Cycling isn't that bad; it just sounds that way. I use Seachem Stability to help cycle my tanks. I've used it on a total of seven tanks, including two five gallons, from 2.5-20 gallons. I've had 100% success and have cycled all tanks in 10-14 days.


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## JebJeb (Apr 25, 2015)

That does put me at more at ease for sure! 

Is Seachem Stability only sold online??


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You can buy Stability at most pet stores.


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## Strawberry12 (Mar 6, 2015)

Russell, which rasboras do you like the best for smaller tanks? I was doing some research on them and saw a few different kinds. It looks like the chilis are the smallest?


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I have Chili, Phoenix and Sundadanio axelrodi (my favorites). My favoritest Nano fish are Dario Dario and Dario hysginon but you have to feed live food like Micro or Banana worms. Java Moss and Subwassertang are a "must" for these little guys.


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## countryangel (Apr 30, 2015)

In my 5 gallon I have king with 2 snails and 2 african dwarf frogs. So far I haven't had any issues. I do constant checks on the water and make sure that the filter is good. You can try that but make sure that you have a back up plan incase he gets agressive. I added stuff and everyone but my betta for 30 minutes. It seemed to work.


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## peasorama (May 13, 2015)

I've very successfully incorporated two Oto's into my 5-gallon tank and also have a lot of live plants and floating plants. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/17395171840/in/dateposted-public/


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I know some hobbyists keep otocinclus by themselves or in smaller tanks, but personally I think they are unsuitable for a five gallon tank. They are a schooling/shoaling fish so should be kept in a group (usually six individuals is the minimum recommended for schooling/shoaling fish) and IMO, being an active fish with a voracious appetite for diatoms and soft algae, require more space than a 5 gallon can offer.


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## peasorama (May 13, 2015)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I know some hobbyists keep otocinclus by themselves or in smaller tanks, but personally I think they are unsuitable for a five gallon tank. They are a schooling/shoaling fish so should be kept in a group (usually six individuals is the minimum recommended for schooling/shoaling fish) and IMO, being an active fish with a voracious appetite for diatoms and soft algae, require more space than a 5 gallon can offer.


Well that's sort of a bummer. The person at the fish store recommended the oto's when I was buying the live plants to help eat any algae. After reading your post LittleBettaFish, I looked them up online & decided to drop a few slices of blanched green squash into the tank and they went right to them and munched all day. Wondering if i should get a few more so than can have a 'school' and keep feeding them different greens to make sure they don't go hungry? Also noticed a tiny little snail that wasn't there before. Must have hitchhiked along on the new plants.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Sadly a lot of employees at fish stores either don't know what they are talking about, or are so restricted by their employers as to what they can say, that a lot of fish get sold into inappropriate homes. Bettas and goldfish are not the only fish to suffer greatly in this industry. 

I probably would simply keep the two otocinclus you have now, rather than add any further individuals. Otocinclus only eat certain types of soft algae, and diatoms, so even if a tank is full of algae, if it is the wrong type, they can starve. It sounds like your two were hungry if they went straight to the blanched squash. Some can be difficult to transition over to other sources of food, but it sounds like your two are quite content to take vegetables. I would definitely keep up the supplemental feeding. Otocinclus need to constantly graze and can very quickly strip all the available algae/diatoms from a 5 gallon tank. A good way to tell if they are getting enough to eat, is if their stomachs are visibly rounded. An emaciated appearance means they need more food.


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## peasorama (May 13, 2015)

Thanks again! I did notice that one of them looked "plumper" than the other one...and was wondering if it meant the plump one was pregnant (I know, I know nothing, but am learning). I will keep up with the feeding and try Brussels sprouts next, maybe the skinny one will take to it better. Guess for now I'll just call them Abbott and Costello


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