# Betta lying lopsided on bottom; is it too late?



## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

My crowntail betta is three months old. I've been increasingly worried about him for several weeks, since he has been lying on the bottom of his bowl more and more and eating less and less. He has lost color and in general languished. I have not known what to do, but didn't want to bug the forum because it seemed like a lot of people had similar complaints.

I came home this evening to find him lying on the bottom lopsided, flopping his fins feebly and unable to swim at all. The food flakes I gave him this morning are untouched on the surface. Is he dying? Is it too late? This sounds to be like swim bladder disease, though I know nothing about that. Is there anything I can do?

He lives in a one-gallon bowl and I change his water at least once a week, using the two-bowl system (whereby I keep a bowl of treated water at hand and switch him between them when the water gets dirty). I know a gallon bowl is barely adequate, but I am a poor graduate student with limited means.

Help?


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

LonelyPilgrim said:


> My crowntail betta is three months old. I've been increasingly worried about him for several weeks, since he has been lying on the bottom of his bowl more and more and eating less and less. He has lost color and in general languished. I have not known what to do, but didn't want to bug the forum because it seemed like a lot of people had similar complaints.
> 
> I came home this evening to find him lying on the bottom lopsided, flopping his fins feebly and unable to swim at all. The food flakes I gave him this morning are untouched on the surface. Is he dying? Is it too late? This sounds to be like swim bladder disease, though I know nothing about that. Is there anything I can do?
> 
> ...


If you have been only changing out his water once a week, that is a HUGE issue in and of itself. Waiting two days for a water change isnt good, let alone seven. Please fill out the information in the sticky at the top of this forum.

A gallon bowl is fine, but it needs regular water changes, properly treated water, and a heater.

When you fill out the info, we will be better able to help you. Also, pictures are a great thing which will help us help you.

Please do a 100% water change RIGHT NOW. Use that water that you have had sitting. I assume this means you dont have conditioner? (Get this, its a couple bucks. Im broke and in college too, ha.)

Put him in his cup (gently) with the old tank's water. Put it somewhere dark and warm. Remove the old, dirty water and scald the tank with hot water to rinse it out. Soap is never to touch anything you use for the tank. If it ever has been cleaned with soap, this might be why he is sick.
Add back in the water that you said aside. Is this water room temp, like the tank? (You need a heater for a betta, btw. Period..) If so, add it back in. Now, bob/float the cup in the new water. Add in a little bit of the new tank's water every 5 minutes for about 10-15 minutes. 

Once finished, carefully dump out almost all the water from the cup. Then, while trying to not let any of the gross, old water back in, put the betta in gently.

I cant assess if he will live based on what you have given me, but I do know that the water changes were far too little and that can bring on a lot of issues. Btw- a betta needs to live in water that is 76-82'. Anything under is stressfull and can sicken them, especially when the water isnt good. Try to keep him either near a warm heat source or put a heating pad on low under his bowl. If you do this, you will need to (HAVE TO!) use some sort of thermometer to make sure its not too hot. Warming his tank may help.

I hope he perks up.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks for the speedy response.



PewPewPew said:


> If you have been only changing out his water once a week, that is a HUGE issue in and of itself. Waiting two days for a water change isnt good, let alone seven. Please fill out the information in the sticky at the top of this forum.


I don't understand ...? Fill out what? I clicked the yellow sticky and have read all that information, but where is the thing I fill out? I promise I'm not dense; I have somehow made it to graduate school. 



PewPewPew said:


> When you fill out the info, we will be better able to help you. Also, pictures are a great thing which will help us help you.


I'll post some in just a moment, but I thought a quick response to this was warranted. 



PewPewPew said:


> A gallon bowl is fine, but it needs regular water changes, properly treated water, and a heater.
> 
> Please do a 100% water change RIGHT NOW. Use that water that you have had sitting. I assume this means you dont have conditioner? (Get this, its a couple bucks. Im broke and in college too, ha.)


I did a full water change last night, and yes, I have been using conditioner all along, and I never use soap on either of his bowls or anything that touches them. The water is clean. I have a thermometer, and while I don't have a heater, I keep the bowl in the warmest part of my apartment, and the thermometer consistently reads about 75 degrees.

(The cost of keeping my apartment heated even when I'm not here is probably more than the cost of a heater, but I didn't know how to heat this size bowl. I bought a little "betta heater" at the pet store, but it's a gadget that's supposed to rest under a pebbly substrate, and I don't have that. I couldn't get the thing to lie flat, so I haven't used it, and tried the keep-my-heat turned up method instead.) 



PewPewPew said:


> Put him in his cup (gently) with the old tank's water. Put it somewhere dark and warm. Remove the old, dirty water and scald the tank with hot water to rinse it out. Soap is never to touch anything you use for the tank. If it ever has been cleaned with soap, this might be why he is sick.
> Add back in the water that you said aside. Is this water room temp, like the tank? (You need a heater for a betta, btw. Period..) If so, add it back in. Now, bob/float the cup in the new water. Add in a little bit of the new tank's water every 5 minutes for about 10-15 minutes.
> 
> Once finished, carefully dump out almost all the water from the cup. Then, while trying to not let any of the gross, old water back in, put the betta in gently.
> ...


So should I still do all of this even though the water is clean? Tell me about this sticky thing and I will fill it out post haste.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

*Re: Water change*

P.S. I said I change the water AT LEAST once a week. I typically change it once every three days or so.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

This:
Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)? 


That way, I wouldnt have had to ask the temp, if heated, if conditioned, etc.


Pics as an afterthought. Theyre just good to add in general.

Yes, do another change. You *cannot* wait a week to change out his water. Even if it looks clean, the ammonia builds up fast. You should change it each day 100%, at the very very most every other day 100%.

The temp is still low, but it isnt awful.

From what you described, there can be a lot of things wrong. Its possible that more frequent changes will help him, as long as he can manage to pull through.

Also, did you properly acclimate him as stated? You need to do it that way, or else it will shock his system.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

LonelyPilgrim said:


> P.S. I said I change the water AT LEAST once a week. I typically change it once every three days or so.


Every three days or so is still not great in that sized tank. (Yes, Ive tested this) And no need to get nit picky, I am trying to help you, and fussing over details that you did not state initially isnt helping either of us.

I'd love to help you out, and Im hoping your fish pulls through.

Please be specific with your information, as this will allow better communication as well as perhaps a better diagnosis.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Hey no, I'm not being snippy. I greatly appreciate the help. 

By the way, I just turned his bowl so I could take a picture of him, and it startled him and he swam to the top and blew some bubbles -- briefly, then he rapidly sank to the bottom again and is lying there. So at least he's still _capable_ of swimming; he just clearly doesn't feel (or look) well.



PewPewPew said:


> This:
> Housing
> *What size is your tank?* One bowl, the one I try to keep him in most of the time, is a gallon; the other one is half a gallon. I've been thinking of buying an identical gallon bowl.
> *What temperature is your tank?* About 75 degrees.
> ...


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

LonelyPilgrim said:


> Hey no, I'm not being snippy. I greatly appreciate the help.
> 
> By the way, I just turned his bowl so I could take a picture of him, and it startled him and he swam to the top and blew some bubbles -- briefly, then he rapidly sank to the bottom again and is lying there. So at least he's still _capable_ of swimming; he just clearly doesn't feel (or look) well.
> 
> ...


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

*Pictures*

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part I by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part II by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part III by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

I am thinking I'll head off to PetSmart and Wal-Mart (as much as I loathe it) for emergency supplies. I'll change him into his smaller bowl before I go.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

One slight problem: the lip on this bowl is too narrow to accommodate Ozzy's cup (I assume you mean the one he came in?) or anything else. It will barely accommodate the small 4" net I'm using to scoop him out. The half gallon backup bowl I have has an even narrower lip. So there's no way to put the cup in the bowl. This is the reason I didn't use that method for changing his water all along (I did read the introduction to the form here the first week I got him).

So I guess I will buy a container with a wider lip, to start with? How should I change his water in the meantime?


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Instead, put him in a ziplock baggie and bob that way.

My goodness....He's so thin and ratty :c Has he always looked this way? This will seem very odd, but what does his poop look like? Is it white and stringy?

Im at a loss on this...Please contact Oldfishlady (via the search/advanced/members) she might be able to diagnose better. Im thinking maybe parasites, since hes so thin and is lethargic :c

Btw, is his tank always so bare? They like to hide and swim around stuff, for the future.


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## Goomba3 (Jan 20, 2011)

Oh no! That is very sad. I have nothing of use to add, just my support that I hope he pulls through. Good luck.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Instead, put him in a ziplock baggie and bob that way.
> 
> My goodness....He's so thin and ratty :c Has he always looked this way? This will seem very odd, but what does his poop look like? Is it white and stringy?
> 
> ...


No, he looked really splendid when I first got him:










I was at PetSmart tonight and looked at the different medicines, and they tried to sell me on several of them. Apparently they don't hurt if they don't work. I may go back and try some tomorrow.

I talked to a man there who was very knowledgable about fish, and he told me to bring back a sample of Ozzy's water to test it. He did, and said all of the levels (pH, ammonia, hardness/softness, etc., nitrates, nitrites) were nearly perfect, one of the best tests he'd ever seen.

I bought some gravel and redid his big bowl, putting the heating pad down under the substrate and adding an ammonia meter. I moved him to fresh water in the small bowl. He seemed to be swimming around for a few minutes, but now he's on the bottom looking pathetic again, flopping his fins like he can't swim. :-(

I'm going to move him back to the big bowl before I go to bed. And then first thing in the morning I'm going back to PetSmart for medicine.

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part IV by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

I'll contact Oldfishlady. Thank y'all so much for your help.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Hope things work well. Dont buy bettafix, though. It does more harm than good..


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> My goodness....He's so thin and ratty :c Has he always looked this way? This will seem very odd, but what does his poop look like? Is it white and stringy?


His poop, when I have seen it, is brown and little and roundish. But I haven't been noticing a lot lately.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Hm... Alright. This is perplexing... Typically, with internal parasites, they poop out white stringy poops.

I hope things work out :c <3


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Thank you.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

BTW, don't rely on the ammonia meter to tell you when to change the water. You should still change the water as much as PewPewPew said. 

My advice is to try aquarium salt and clean water before trying medicines. He is already in a weakened state and strong medication could just wear out his kidneys. 

Also I suggest getting a plant so he isn't so stressed by the big empty space.

Good luck!


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree he looks very thin. If his poops are normal, it's possible he's just not eating enough and is too cold. I agree with Pew's advice and contacting OFL. Once he's feeling better, try to get him off flakes and on pellets. Or, if you can spring for them, frozen bloodworms. You can find them at most fish stores (including Petsmart) in the freezer. No betta on the planet can resist them and the extra protein helps them heal. Good luck with your little guy! I hope he gets better!


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part V by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

Ozzy looking pathetic this morning. :-( Can anybody help me diagnose him? Notice the whiteness/grayness especially around the lower part of his mouth. I'm about to head back to PetSmart; what can I get?


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

I do have frozen bloodworms. Should I try feeding him some of those?


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

He seems to barely be breathing now. He makes a great exertion every few minutes to rise to the top to breathe, and then almost _falls_ back to the bottom, carried more by gravity than anything else. I took some of the water out so he wouldn't have so far to travel. :-(


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Operation: Save Ozzy, Part VI by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

There seems to be a clump of something yellow clinging to his underside? And notice the whiteness all around the underside of his mouth.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I honestly think he's going to go soon. I'm so sorry we don't have anything concrete to tell you. It's so hard to diagnose a fish. It's possible he has a bacterial infection that's taken a real toll on him. If it were me, I'd try antibiotics but he's very weak. Since you don't know what kind of infection he has, you could try a maracyn 1 and 2 combo. But he might be too far gone at this point. I'm always hesitant to suggest meds because we just don't know what's going on with him. But that's what I would do if it were me. You can try getting him to eat a bloodworm or two. Tweezer them down to him one at a time.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Poor fella...I would get him in his small container you bought him in to treat with Epsom salt 1tsp/gal along with 100% daily water changes...increase the Epsom salt 2tsp/gal on day 3 along with 100% daily water changes to complete 10 day treatment

Epsom salt can usually be found at most stores that have a pharmacy dept

Good luck and keep us posted....


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Poor fella...I would get him in his small container you bought him in to treat with Epsom salt 1tsp/gal along with 100% daily water changes...increase the Epsom salt 2tsp/gal on day 3 along with 100% daily water changes to complete 10 day treatment
> 
> Epsom salt can usually be found at most stores that have a pharmacy dept
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted....


Thanks for the reply. I'm at PetSmart now looking at mess... is "Aquarium Salt" as good as/the same as Epsom salt?


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Looking at meds. Silly autocorrect.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

No, Epsom salt and aquarium salt are two different salts....pet shops usually don't sell Epsom salt-most stores that have a pharmacy dept will have Epsom salt...


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Ah... then back into the fire: to my least favorite place in town, Wal-Mart. :-|


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

O horror of horrors... such a wretched place. And they did not have what I needed. :-((


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

The only epsom salt either Wal-Mart or Walgreen's has is perfumed.


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## Tisia (Mar 15, 2011)

try the pharmacy area around the stuff for sprains and such, that's where I had found some


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Found some at Fred's. Good ole, down-home Fred's.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Ozzy is dead. :-( Thanks to all for your care and help.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

*Funeral arrangements*

So... funeral arrangements. I suppose a burial at sea is the best option. I am reading about a flower pot memorial, but I haven't had very good luck at keeping flowers alive, either. :-( I have one really good picture to remember him by... Still, it seems so disrespectful to just flush him down the toilet. Perhaps I'll bury him in the yard?

Is there anything I can do, or need to do, to determine why he died?


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I am sorry.  If you could find a vet who deals with fish and is willing to do a necrospsy, you could look into it? Or you could bury him in the yard. You could plant something out there over him, to remember him by. Sorry for your loss.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

It is often illegal to place dead, non-native fish in bodies of water.

I would just bury him, yeah. :c Especially since you dont know why he passed, you dont want another animal getting to him.

Im sorry he passed away. If you decide to get another fish, take care to properly sanitize the tank and stuff, search how to w/vinegar, that way, the other fish wont get it :c


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

*R.I.P. Ozzy*

R.I.P. Ozzy by LonelyPilgrim, on Flickr

Ozymandias (Jesus Fish), "Ozzy." Crowntail Betta. December 2010 – 2 April 2011. Requiescat in pace.

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains.

I wrapped him in three magnolia leaves from my tree, and buried him in my favorite spot in the back yard.

The Bible says that God forgets not even the sparrows. I believe that applies to little betta fish, too.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

<333


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Aw! That's really nice.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm sorry about Ozzy, he was lucky to have someone as caring and concerned as you


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Prayers to you and Ozzy <3


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm sorry that you lost Ozzy  That is a great little area that you buried him in.

RIP fishy.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Thank you. I only knew him for a few months, but I'm still very sad. I feel like I should have acted to save him sooner, before it really was too late. I can look out my back door or my window and see where he lies, so at least is staying close to my heart.


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## Goomba3 (Jan 20, 2011)

I am very sorry to hear of this. You did everything you could to save him, so do not despair. He is in a painless place now, you made him happy and warm, and much like anything else, you heart will heal with time.


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## Skeinchug (May 3, 2011)

My condolences. I just woke up from a very long nap I just found my betta in the exact same situation. I was gone camping all weekend and now I feel terrible I wasn't there to catch the warning signs earlier. Just did a 100% water change, complete with salts and macryn. I can only pray he has the tenacity to hold on.


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## LonelyPilgrim (Jan 22, 2011)

Skeinchug said:


> My condolences. I just woke up from a very long nap I just found my betta in the exact same situation. I was gone camping all weekend and now I feel terrible I wasn't there to catch the warning signs earlier. Just did a 100% water change, complete with salts and macryn. I can only pray he has the tenacity to hold on.


I hope so, too. Sending warm thoughts his way.


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## Blazer23 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hes in a better place now


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## jackals (Jul 20, 2010)

Makes me sad to read posts like these. I wish our fish lives 20-30 years instead of typical 2-3 years..

I really wonder what happened to him? ... he looked very sick


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