# not finrot, not fungus, but getting worse HELP!



## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

This how it started, a tiny sliver of iridescent blue:










I have treat him with AQ salt and it never helped.

Since he has always been in a good mood, everyone said that it is probably a non-issue.

Then he had a bout of tail biting and the tiny sliver grew back black, with iridescent blue.










Over the past few weeks the black has been increasing and the tail has been getting shorter.

I did a 10 day salt treatment with no effect.

The fish store help told me if he is not lethargic and eating and acting normal, it is fungus, so I got some fungus medication and put him in a hospital tank.

Day 5 he had swim bladder problems so I discontinued treatment.

Got back on line and found that I can treat both possibilities of fungus and fin rot, at this point too severe to treat with salt, so I got maracyn 2 and API fungus Cure.

I just finished the first 5 days of treatment with both medications and there is no change.

He has however showing swim bladder problems again so I discontinued the fungus medication, but keeping the antibiotic for now (the instructions says I should use it 5 days, and if not improved, an additional 5 days).

I d daily water changes, 100% and I did add a mild bubbler (which he LOVED at first) because the medication strips the oxygen from the water and makes it harder for him to breathe.

He is now lethargic, he does want to eat though I am fasting him for a day for the swim bladder to return to normal.

I noticed a reddish spot above his one of his gills, looks like some kind of sore. This is worrying me very much, though it is tiny.

I am fairly convinced this is not fin rot, nor is it fungus. Is it possibly some kind of tumor?

Any help will be much appreciated.

I am posting a photo of his tail now and the sore on his head now.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

dot on the head: 









Another view: 
http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=49025

Tail as it looks now:


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

thank you for any help!

Atena


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Atena, I'm guessing this is the same guy that's in your avatar? There's definitely a change his fins.

Maracyn 2 is a gram negative antibiotic. Most bacterial diseases are gram negative, so that was a good place to start. But some bacteria are now resistant to it.... And API fungus Cure contains Acriflavine, which is effective at fungal infections. So that was a good place to start, too. 

To me, it looks like a pretty aggressive bacterial infection. Right now, it's still on his tail, but you want to treat it before it reaches the body.

*Kanaplex* would be my recommendation. It's not available at Petsmart/Petco, but you can get it online. 

If you can't get Kanaplex, I would try using a furan antibiotic such as *API Furan 2, Bifuran, or Jungle Fungus Clear.* 

I'm not sure what the red sore is on his head. It could be irritation from the medications. I would PM someone like Sakura8, Olympia or Myates to ask, just in case.

Also, since he's dealing with health issues, you want to give him some good nutrition right now. I would feed him a small amount and see if it affects his buoyancy. You can also look into a supplement like Vitachem. It's a vitamin/mineral supplement that gets added to the water. It's available online.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Jungle fungus Clear treats swimbladder,open red sores, tail rot and fungus issues. I know it works for swimbladder I've seen it work in 24 hours for swimbladder (I was treating other issues too). I've seen it available in Walmart and Meijers if you have any in your area. Your chances of finding it are good. You might find this information useful as a good read:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html

According to the article it can be combined with Kanaplex. Dosage is what you want to be careful with. I was using a one gallon hospital tank. For that size tank I went with a baby aspirin size dose with in mind that that the dose is for a 10 gallon tank. Check with a moderator to be sure- my fish was not as weak as your fish may be. You should wear gloves when handling the JFC.


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

The tissue on his tail looks necrotic. That, in case you don't know, means the tissue is dieing. Once it has died, it is known as being gangrenous. If its anything like in mammals, it'll first turn white, then black, then fall off. Necrotic and/or gangrenous tissue is usually a result of severe bacterial infections or something that caused blood to stop flowing and nourishing the tissue.

I worry about that dead and dieing tissue being present. In severe enough cases, septicemia can occur. That means that the blood is poisoned from the dead tissue and can make the fish really sick and eventually death can occur if nothing is done to treat it. 

With that said, I would look to antibacterial medications for treating this mysterious infection. Maracyn II or even trying Jungle Fungus Clear, as previously suggested, wouldn't hurt. Just don't go overboard and use both at the same time.


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## TheCrabbyTabby (Jul 7, 2012)

An idea just popped into my head. If your grasping for treatments, it wouldn't hurt to add IALs (Indian Almond Leaf) to the water. I don't know how much good it would do, but it doesn't hurt to try. Right?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I ordered the Kenaplex, have not been able to find Jungle Fungus Clear yet.

The antibiotic seems to make more sense, but I want to get the other one just in case so I have it. Does anyone know if I can use them together?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

They're both antibiotics.

Jungle Fungus Clear contains two furan antibiotics, both of which are effective against a wide spectrum of bacteria. It's available for about $4 at Walmart.

Kanaplex contains a different wide spectrum antibiotic.

I checked Seachem's website. They said they do not recommend using Kanaplex simultaneously with Furan 2 (which is the same as both Fungus Clear and Bifuran).

However, you may ask someone here who has experience with both products. Maybe Sakura8, Olympia or Myates could tell you.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I don't have a walmart nearby but I can probably get a friend to go for me.

Which one do you think is better for Guppy?

I am so far relieved that no one thinks it is fish TB or fin tumors. Staying hopeful, though he is still lethargic. I did feed him one pallet and he eagerly ate it. Tomorrow I will try to find him a mosquito larva to catch. They are very prominent in the plant tank.

His color is looking very pail and I think he is now getting stress stripes. He still us unable to swim well. I am so heartbroken I can't even describe the feeling. It is agony to see my poor little boy go through this and feel so helpless to do anything about it. Thank you for all your help, you folks are my strength right now. I feel like I have done everything I know how to do and I have no idea where to go from here.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

If it's fin rot making it hard to swim then you can use Epsom salts. Please look at the top Fish emergencies 1 and 2 diseases in this section the dosage will be posted somewhere in that area. You can also keep the water level low if getting to the surface is a problem. You can keep coming back with questions we are here for you.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Re Kanaplex verus the furan antibiotics (Fungus Clear / Furan 2 / Bifuran):

At this point, I would use whichever one you can get first. Do the full treatment with it. Then, if there's no improvement, I would give him a little time to recover, and either retreat or switch to the other med.

I wouldn't fast him right now. He needs quality nutrition to help his immune system. If he has buoyancy issues, you can add Epsom salt (as Jada suggested). If you opt to do this, I'd start with a dosage of 1 teaspoon per gallon. (You can increase to as high as 3 teaspoons per gallon, if needed. But start with the lower dosage first.)

I think he just has a resistant bacterial infection. (One of the issues with Maracyn 2 is that some types of bacteria are resistant to it.) The furan or Kanaplex antibiotics are newer products, and hopefully will be sufficient to treat it.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

I think I need to be a little clearer if you feel it's swimbladder disease making it hard to swim you could use epsom salt. I think my sentence was a little backwards there.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

My friend dropped off a packet of jungle fungus clear tabs overnight at my mailbox that she was able to find at walmart. This morning I cut it up to the proper dosage which was actually much easier than I anticipated (his hospital tank is 1/2 gallon so it is pretty easy to keep dividing in half). So I am trying this one first.

I will try to find some Epsom salt on my way home from work today, believe it or not, this is also a hard to find item in Miami.

This morning he was swimming much better but still swimming at the top of the tank only. I gave him one pallet, will give him one more before I leave for work in about an hour.

I have flakes but the pallets will probably be better, he does not like frozen foods, I tried them all. He does not like freez-dried worms either, the new life spectrum pallets has been his favorite and his appetite is still good.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Guppy seems a little better today, swim bladder issue is over, he seems to be spending most of his time at the bottom or hiding in his cave, this is not his normal behavior but he is eating well and does come out every now and then.

I got the second medicine but want to give the jungle cure a chance, any idea how long I should wait before I start the next one?

I am not sure it is effective yet for the finrot.

Atena


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Glad he's doing better today.

The Jungle Fungus Clear directions say to treat for four days. I would say that if you notice the problem getting worse at ANY time, switch to the Kanaplex.

If the problem looks like it's getting better, keep using the Jungle Fungus Clear for the full four days.

If the Fungus Clear is working, then after the four days is up, you can make a decision on whether to:
a) stop treatment because he's better, or
b) do another Fungus Clear treatment, or
c) switch to Kanaplex.
If you decide to retreat (with either antibiotic), do at least a 25% (or more) water change.

I don't remember if you have a filter, but if you do, make sure any carbon is removed while treating, as it removes the antibiotic.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

He is in a half gallon hospital tank with no filter, only a heater and light bubbler.

I do a 100% water change every day with a fresh dose of medicine. The water was getting too dingy after 24 hours so I am increasing it to twice a day as of today.

He always cheers up right after food or water change but within an hour he is back hiding in the cave. I am not sure what to do to keep his spirits high.

The sore on his head is the same, the fins seem to be dropping off some of minute bits of the black edges but I am not sure if this is because he is healing or because he is at the bottom all the time and is actually getting worse.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I personally never had to deal with even fin rot, but from my research and helping over the years I would have to say after this bout of fungus treatment, stop using it. He's been on it already before with no getting better.. if fungus treatment isn't working, no need to put his sensitive organs through the gauntlet with it any more than necessary. You can try Kanaplex after if you wish, or both Maracyn I and II.

Now, I normally wouldn't suggest this, and I would have a friend be there to help if needed.. since this is only his fins you can try this if you wish... but be very careful.

On a plate place a little bit of his tank water.. wrap your fingers in seran wrap and wet them.. lay him gently down on the plate.. very very gently hold his back half down with your wrapped, wet fingers. Use a new/clean razor blade and cut the fin right before the black edges - if the blackness hasn't reached his body. You don't want to cut his body, obviously. 

Place him in a cup with clean, conditioned warm water when done.

Do a 100% water change in his home/hospital tank to remove all medication. Add in 1/2-1 tsp of AQ salt (dissolve it first) to make sure the fin doesn't become infected where you cut it. 

Do a 100% water change daily for 3 days adding in new salt each time just to make sure the cut area is cleaned.

If he is acting healthy once more then just keep his water a tad bit cleaner than normal and stop all use of salt.

If he is still acting funny/sick then let us know right away, as the infection may have went into his bloodstream.. but with clean water and the bacteria gone from him (which in turn removes it from the water he is in) he may bounce back and will just have to regrow his fins.

Do this only if there is enough fin left for you to safely cut it.
Cutting fins won't harm him as long as he is in clean water afterward.. sadly, some people cut their betta's fins to put into shows - cutting isn't unheard of. This is an extreme measure, but since it's so close to his body and you haven't seen it get any better, this may be the only option. 

Sakura8 may know of a different medication to help - as I'm more of a naturalist and normally the most I use when it comes to medications is Epsom/AQ salts. I've had very little need to use anything else in the years, so I can't say whether one thing works better than another - just from hearsay.

If it reforms let us know immediately as well.. 

The spot on his head could be a burn from medication, as someone had mentioned. Could also be a spot similar to what is on his body.. as it looks like he may have some grizzle in his genes and often times the grizzle pattern will change. If it becomes more red and open sore then that would be an infection.

For swimming.. the medications shouldn't effect the swim bladder, but stranger things have happened. If it's swim bladder problem then he would be unable to swim up/down and be tilted/ing to the side. If he is just having trouble moving his body and swimming with ease it may be due to his tail being nearly gone. As long as he can get up to get air then I wouldn't worry about it.. main concern would be ridding of the infection so his fins can grow and he can swim properly. 
If he's tilting or can't swim up/down then go ahead and use Epsom (safe with medications, but not with AQ salt), if it's just trouble swimming due to fin loss then no need to do anything for it.

I wish I could be of more help.. normally when I lived in the disease section I left the medications to certain others to recommend, etc and I dealt with ones that can be treated conservatively. So give Sakura8 a holler and see if she knows of some of the stronger antibiotics out there, I know she has experience helping others with very stubborn problems such as this.

Good luck.. he is a handsome boy.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you so much for your help.

I think with enough bravery I could cut his fins, however, the black has reached his body at the very top of his tail, so I cannot cut it completely off.

Would it still be helful?

I have contacted Sakura8 as you suggested, I hope she can help with the meds. I know I have tried salt and it did not work at all when this just started, so I don't feel confident it will prevent it from spreading.

The head sore has not changed at all.

His swimming issue has been swim bladder, it did go away but it also he became more lethargic except right at dinner time and for about an hour after water changes.

Thank you again for your help, there is no changes to his tail so far and I am on day 3 of the jungle brand.

Atena


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi Atena. Sorry it took me a bit to get back to you; I've been away from my computer for a day or so.

Wow, that's some bad fin rot.  Poor fellow. 

Since salt and other holistic treatments didn't help, I think we do need to call in an antibiotic for this. The meds that LittleBlue suggested are all very good meds. If you have Kanaplex now, you can use that and contrary to what Seachem says, you can actually combine Kanaplex and Furan-2 for a very powerful antibiotic that targets both external and internal bacteria. You may want to try this, as the Furan-2 will be more effective at treating the fin rot but judging from his swimming difficulties, I also suspect he may now have a secondary bacterial infection as well that only Kanaplex will treat.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

^ Go with the above. If it has reached the body then you will definitely need to treat it rather than just remove it. Once it hits the body it can do some damage, so using both internal and external bacteria medication should help.. don't cut his fins now, as it's already invaded the body so removing the fins won't change that.

 Hope the little guy pulls through for you


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I hope so too. Started him on the kenaplex with the 8pm water change. He was swimming fine and energetic right after the water change. then settles down again inside his cave. We will see how it goes.

If this doesn't work, what is my next step?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If there is fin left, I'd say cutting it off to prevent it from reaching the body is the next step. But that's a very last resort and if you do want to go that route, we'll walk you through it. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it without Finquel to anaesthesize the fish some.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

This is a photo taken today, I think I might be seeing a little improvement. What do you think?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

No photo is showing up.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I don't know why, the photo is my album in this forum. I might need to ask a moderator about that.

Here is a link to the photo: http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50418

It is in my album (under my profile) under "health".


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> If there is fin left, I'd say cutting it off to prevent it from reaching the body is the next step. But that's a very last resort and if you do want to go that route, we'll walk you through it. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it without Finquel to anaesthesize the fish some.


I found one bottle of Finquel on E-bay, I think I will get some just in case.

I am going to take more photos and post them here with my good camera, can you advise me on weather or not it is too late for the surgery and if it would help, how do I cut around the very top of the tail where I think it has reached the body?

This is really scary, but if it is my last resort I am going to have to do it. I am so worried.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, you can still cut off the black but I'm not sure about cutting off the black that is on the top of his fin. That would require a lot of trimming and to get it all off, you'd have to cut dangerously close to the caudal peduncle (the part of his body where the tail starts). 

The risk of this procedure is that, if we don't manage to cut off all the black rot part, then there's that much less fin for it to go through before it gets to his body. You'd have to cut in a V, following the line of the black from the caudal penduncle and back up.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Are you currently treating simultaneously with both Kanaplex and Furan 2?

(*Furan 2 / Bifuran / Jungle Fungus Clear all have the same two furan antibiotics.)


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, started to add Kenaplex yesterday. In water only, I do not understand how to do the food dose, I don't have frozen food he would eat so I am at a loss how to do that.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Here are the photos from today.

Head sore, looks the same:









Head and tail:









Tail closeup:









Other side of tail, closeup









Sweet little guppy:











Just in case the photos don't show, these are the URL's

Head sore, looks the same:
http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50570

Head and tail:
http://www.bettafish.com/album.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50562

Tail closeup:
http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50538

Other side of tail, closeup
http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50530

Sweet little guppy:
http://www.bettafish.com/picture.php?albumid=5173&pictureid=50522


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Uh oh, I'm not sure I'm liking this pic:








Looks like the rot has just about reached the body.  It may be too late to cut away any fin now.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

That is what I was worried about. So now what do I do?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

His treatment is Kanaplex and . . . are you still using the Jungle Fungus Clear or another med? I've lost track.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, he is now on kenaplex for the 3rd day. Jungle fungus clear on the 6th day.

He is still eating and today in good spirits. Spending less time in the cave, even playing with the bubbler last night.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Continue with both for another three days. I'm really concerned that if we stop either med too soon the rot will be resistant to treatment. Keep an eye on him and make sure the meds aren't having any negative effect on him - lethargy, loss of appetite, that kind of thing. 

I'm really glad to hear he's acting well and happy. That's great news.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

He is still in good spirits today and eating well. He did float on his side for a minute nearly giving me a heart attack but he quickly swam out of the bubbles and I realized he was just playing in the air bubbles again.

I am going on a road trip and won't be back for the 12 hour water change, but I think he will be okay. I will change it as soon as I get back.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Today he is having buoyancy problems again, I do not think it is because i was two hours late on the water change, i think I may have miscounted the dosage on the jungle clear and given him an elevated dose. 

He is still eating, I gave him a pallet earlier this morning and he was glad to get to it. 

He is just not moving around much now, floating at the top using the heater to prop himself upright. 

Last time it took him two or three days to get back to normal.

The tail is not looking much different, I think I will have to keep him on the antibiotic till the anesthetic gets here and I'm going to have to do the cut. I am terrified, I have so many questions.

I am afraid of taking him of the antibiotic before all that black stuff is gone. Though I think the KP is the one that is actually affective.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

When treating, there's such a delicate balance between keeping them on the meds long enough to ensure you've really nailed the disease and so long that they start reacting to the meds. :/ 

When you're ready to do the cut, let us know. Either Myates or I will walk you through it.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Atena sending Guppy bubble kisses and get well wishes .


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you... I appreciate your support.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're welcome. I just wish the little guy was better.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Kanaplex is supposed to be to be more effective taken internally. Maybe this will help him take it:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Focus.html

They suggest putting garlic guard with it for even more palatability. I hear it's just garlic juice. Maybe Sakura can confirm it. I've been watch this thread. I really hope he gets better.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

How do I make a small dose of it?

The instructions talk about a paste food, and to add it and freeze it, they want me to use one tablespoon of "food paste" with one measure of the food.

They include a tiny measure spoon with the meds.

Can I make a solution in water and soak his micro pallets in it, and if so, what would be the dosage of pallets VS "paste" food?

Atena


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Atena, what you can do is add about a half scoop of Kanaplex to some tank water, just enough to make kind of a paste or kind of thick water. Soak his pellets in that for a few minutes and then try to feed that. 

Focus is good because it acts as a binder so the medication sticks to the food better and of course, Garlic Guard is just garlic juice to make it taste better. Focus can also be used on its own as it is an antibiotic in its own right.

Thanks for the suggestion, Jada.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks, I'll try that now.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I don't have the other two medications, but I do have fresh organic garlic so I used garlic juice instead of water to dilute the KP, gave it guppy. 

The first try had lots of the KP jell in it, he took it, spit out the jell then the pallet.

Second try had less jell, he chewed up the pallet then spit out a few pieces.

I added a few drops of water and waited longer and gave him that pallet, he took it and spit it out. I get the feeling he will come back to it later, I'll see if it is still there when I get home from work tonight.


He is in better spirits today, but still spending most of his time at the bottom of the tank, some in the cave and some not. He has never been a morning person so we will see how he is tonight.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sometimes they just flat out won't eat medicated foods no matter what, the little buggers. C'mon, Guppy! You can do it! Just a spoonful of sug - er, garlic juice to make the medicine go down!


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

He is reluctantly taking the pallets, they have to sit for a while on the bottom until he is convinced no better foot is coming, then he eats it when I am not looking.

I am not sure how many I should give him for the proper medication dosage, but I gave him two and hope that will be okay.

I arrived home from work to find the finquel has arrived.. a nice zippie bag full of white powder and instructions I have no hope of understanding. :\

I don't have a scale, so I am not sure what the dosage should be or how it works.

The instructions are written with the premis that you already know what you are doing - which is not the case.

For sedation they recommend 100-200mg/L

or 100-200PPM (???)

But the only dosage recommended for ornamental fish is the lowest sedation dosage of 15-40 mg/L

This dosage is only used for transportation.

Sooo... with that said, I think I need to be walked through every step of this in the context of a betta fish. HELP PLEASE!!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Let me go find my instruction sheet somewhere and I'll get back to you. I've only used Finquel for euthanization purposes so I can't remember what the sedation dose is. I do know that Finquel is highly acidic so you need to use an equal amount of baking soda as a buffer. Otherwise the sudden pH drop could shock the fish.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you, I really appreciate all your effort in helping my little boy. You are a real good fish angel.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Here is some info on finquel the most useful part of it being further down the page where they start mentioning smaller fish:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/finquel-ms-222-tricaine-methanesulfonate.html


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you, I have been searching the internet for betta specific info, this is the best one I found so far:

To sedate with Finquel: 

Things you will need: 

Finquel (MS-222)- to sedate the fish, so you can treat it. Available from PondRx. 
Baking soda (to buffer the Finquel solution) 
Clean Towel and pillowcase 
2 Buckets one for sedation and one to transport fish back to its tank 
Airstone 
Instructions 

Set up your work area and make sure everything is very clean. 
Lay out a towel and one of those hospital blue pads. a pillowcase on top would also work (it's smoother than the towel) 
Lay out your other materials within easy reach 
Dissolve 1/4 teaspoon of Finquel and 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda per gallon of water used in your sedation bucket. Use water from the tank if possible and match tank temperature. 
Place fish in the solution. When it turns over on its side and gill movements slow, remove it from the solution and perform the procedure. If the fish doesn't roll over in 10 minutes, you can add another 1/8 teaspoon of finquel and baking soda per gallon (Use some of your existing water to dissolve it in and make sure it disperses well when added to the sedation bucket). 
You will want to work quickly and finish the procedure you're performing as quickly as possible. 
Make sure you keep one hand on the fish at all times in case he starts flopping around. Don't want any falls off the counter! 
After you've finished the procedure, place the fish in a bucket of clean water and return him to the tank. 
You may need to hold the fish for a little while in an area where fresh water is moving through its gills (e.g. by the outflow of the filter) until he gets less groggy.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Here is what I am doing.

Prepairing clean medicated water for guppy to swim in. I am adding a little aquarium salt to prevent any additional infection and adding a some stress coat to help him recover.

I have made a concentrated solution of 160mg water, in which I dissolve 1/4 tsp. baking soda and finquel (using a count 16 cups to 1 gallon of water). I will add 20mg of this solution to two cups of water (that's his transport cup). 

Put guppy in until he floats on his side, then take him out to a flat plate with some of the solution on it and perform the cuts. I boiled the brand new razor on water for 32 minutes to make sure it is sterile.

I hope to do the cuts in less than 4 minutes.

I will then return him to a cup of medicated tank water to wake up. Using a baster to flow water over his gills if I can.

When he comes to, I will gently add him to his hospital tank.

I will continue giving him antibiotics for another 5 days, and keep the water changes ever 12 hours. I will keep him in the hospital tank with salt water for another 3 or 4 days then take away the salt and return his water to normal. after he is okay for another few days he can then go back to his regular tank.

Guppy will recover quickly and his tail will grow back stronger and more beautiful than ever and he will live happily ever after.

This is the plan anyway. I hope I am not missing anything.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

It is done!

Guppy is in recovery, I was not able to get all the black off, a tiny bit remains at the top of his tail where it was closest to the body. I hope that heals with the antibiotic alone. The rest of the black is all gone.

He is starting to wake up now.

I don't know how he is feeling but I am a basket case. I hope this helps him get all better. I could tell it hurt when I got close to the top of his tail, poor baby. There was a little bleeding but I hope not too much. Giving him his favorite food when he wakes up to help him rebuild his strength.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for a full recovery.


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## Catw0man (Jan 24, 2013)

Atena said:


> It is done!
> 
> Guppy is in recovery, I was not able to get all the black off, a tiny bit remains at the top of his tail where it was closest to the body. I hope that heals with the antibiotic alone. The rest of the black is all gone.
> 
> ...


Wow....I've just read through this whole thread....and you've been through so much with Guppy. I've never seen fin rot like that before....sure hope he recovers soon and swims happily ever after.....


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sorry I came late with my info - stuff got in the way last night. Congratulations on a successful surgery. I'm so proud of you, Atena.  You did great.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Catw0man, Thank you, it has been been an ordeal but we are hopeful.

Sakura8, don't worry, you have been a great help and support, both Guppy and I thank you.

So far he is doing well, swimming around and eating, but mostly resting on the bottom of the tank. He does take the medicated food but only after it has been in the water for a while. 

How long do you think I should continue adding salt to the water?

I am not sure it is necessary or if it is making it harder for him.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If he is still in Kanaplex, then you don't need to add the salt. The main purpose of the salt is help prevent infection, which the Kanaplex will do. To protect the cuts you can add double doses of Stress Coat or Kordon Fish Protector.

I'm glad he's eating, that's a good sign.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I have stress coat, but not a double dose, will double it. 

Thanks!


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

How is your fish doing?


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Still alive, the medications are starting to get to him so I am weening him off them starting today.

His tail is healing but the black spot remains. It is not growing, which is good.

He is still eating though it is becoming more reluctant.

I think ones the toxins from the meds are out of his system he will be much happier. - now it is just wait and see.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you for asking.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Im Very worried, he is just laying on the bottom on his side. I am starting a mild epsom salt treatment. 

Removing meds has not helped yet, so I am thinking it might be a swim bladder problem. This is the last thing I am trying with him, just want to get him back to his happy self and see if he can just live out the remainder of his life.

The black is not going away, the tail has not started to grow back yet, but it has only been a short while.

He is eating, though more reluctantly.

I am loosing hope fast.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You're doing well, Atena. I'm sorry you're going through this. Sometimes an infection can be so deep-seated and an immune system so weak that nothing can be done.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

It has been a week with no improvements. Guppy just lyes on his side all day. He will not swim to the surface to eat, only eats what falls to the bottom. He is very sad.

I am heartbroken, but I am at the point where I have to consider euthanization.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

He did not eat today. Not even from the bottom of the tank.

During the day he did get off the bottom and swam a bit, bit mostly.he just lyes on his side in the bottom. I have lowered the water leaves so it is easier for him to breathe.

I am not sure what to do. I hold out a sliver of hope.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think you've done all you can, Atena. Sometimes there just isn't anything we can do. I'm sorry.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

How does his body look has any of the patch spread further? Although I wasn't able to cure him my Nano had a day where he didn't eat and he had resurgence where he ate and was active. I hope tomorrow is a better day.


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## Hoshiko (Apr 28, 2013)

Atena  I just read all your thread and it is heart breaking having to see you and Guppy go through this. Orpheus and I send our strength to you and Guppy in hope of a recovery. But even if the worst happens, I know Guppy will die happy that he had such a great owner that gave him the very best.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you everyone for all your help.

This morning unfortunately, little Guppy lost his fight. I would like to imagine he is now swimming happily in that big rice paddy in the sky, where he has all the space he wants and unlimited pallets falling from the sky.

My husband and I are very sad, even the our cat Minou seems sad, even though she never really got along with her "little brother". 

There have been many tears but it is good to know that we tried everything we could. I suppose it was just his time.

Your support has been a huge help through this ordeal, and the through the single year that we have had the little guy with us. He has touched many lives and was dearly loved by many. I most of all will always miss him.

He died peacefully as I was cradling him near the surface because he could not reach the surface on his own to breath. I am glad he did not die alone.

He was such a tiny little boy, had a world of love and a soul larger than life.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

I just went to the home page and the message on the left says Guppy is in this months photo contest, I think I submitted that photo two months ago and remember wondering why it never showed up in the last one ... The irony.


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## Backlash (Jan 9, 2012)

SIP/RIP Guppy... You will be missed..


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## Catw0man (Jan 24, 2013)

Atena said:


> Thank you everyone for all your help.
> 
> This morning unfortunately, little Guppy lost his fight. I would like to imagine he is now swimming happily in that big rice paddy in the sky, where he has all the space he wants and unlimited pallets falling from the sky.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear Guppy didn't make it.....he had been through a lot and you right along with him! I sometimes wish that fish had the lifespan of a dog or cat....especially bettas with their incredible personalities that make them so endearing. It's hard to let a favorite one go. Take comfort in the fact that you truly did all you could.....and, when you're ready, perhaps bring another lucky betta into your life.


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

So sorry for your loss you did absolutely everything you could. You both fought a brave fight.


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## Atena (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you, I still miss my little guy, but he has inspired a whole new world in me.


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