# New Betta Owner- Upgrade from bowl to tank



## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Hey, y'all!

Brand new Betta owner here. Brought Bilbo Baggins the Betta home on Saturday. I originally put him in a large bowl shaped vase I already had (1- 1/2 gallon sized). Added decorative marbles and a life peace lily. Submerged the roots of the peace lily. Leaves are sticking up out of the top. Have a decorative dragon that my bf's 12 y.o. picked out (he named fish, too). 

I'm trying to be a good fish mommy. I did a 100% water change on Monday and just did a 50% water change today. Because I currently have a live plant in there, I didn't do the full 100% change today. Didn't want to mess with whatever the balances are in there (I haven't done any testing yet). 

In addition, when Bilbo did not seem to be enjoying the flakes, I picked through the food to give him the non-flaky bits for a day or two. Yesterday, I bought him pellets for primary food and bloodworms as his treat.

Bilbo seems to be a happy betta. I was greeted yesterday morning with a bubble nest. He watches me from inside the bowl and typically swims to whatever side of the bowl I am standing on (the bowl is resting on the raised countertop between the kitchen and living/dining areas. 

Of course, I found this website and started reading the messages and so am now thinking about upgrading his living quarters to some kind of tank. My issue is that I ONLY want Bilbo, not other fish. 10 gal tanks seem rather large for just him, so I am thinking that I want a tank in the 2-5 gal range. Is that going to be good for him?

I haven't purchased additional items for the current bowl he is in, because if I manage to get a tank at a discount, it frequently comes with lots of accessories. 

I am finding myself a little overwhelmed with the different options here- live plants vs. silk faux plants; sand vs. gravel; filtration; etc. 

I'm not looking to invest several hundred dollars into this. I wanted something really simple and it's already getting more complicated than I originally expected. I'm okay with some added complications and expense, but I don't want to go crazy with it, either. 

Thanks!

Bilbo's new mom.


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I completely understand not wanting to spend too much time or money. In this case, you kind of have the option of either or. If you spend more money, you can have a more advanced set up that requires less time (and you mentioned a 2-5 gallon, that would be perfect). The opposite of course is to keep him in the smaller bowl and do water changes much more frequently. As you can tell, a peace lilly is not one of those plants that allows for easy water changes. Better options are anubias, or Marimo moss balls. The anubias would need to be grown on a decoration, but doing so would allow you to simply take the plant out when you needed to do your 100% changes. 

If you aren't going to have a large selection of plants, gravel is the better option. Sand can get stagnant unless you have root systems. There are still quite a few plants that can easily be grown with gravel, and those plants will improve water quiality. 

But basically, in my experience, a heater, plants, and 2+ gallons is all you really need. A filter just complicates things in a way you don't need.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

The original reason I bought the peace lily was to act as a barrier to protect Bilbo from my cat, if she showed any interest in his bowl (since it has no lid). She hasn't shown any interest. He hasn't started to jump much either and I have kept the water low enough from the top that he couldn't jump out.

The lily has been a little bit aggravating in that if your hand bumps it, it starts to float. Right now, I've somehow got it wedged just right so that Bilbo can hide out in the roots and swim around them, but the roots are not buried or floating in the water, either.

To do my water change I use a ladle to scoop out 50% of the water. 

So, is your suggestion to stick with a few live plants vs. silk ones? Will that make a filtration system completely unnecessary?


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## Kytkattin (May 15, 2011)

I personally love live plants, so I will admit being a touch biased. 

Unfortunately, unless have have a very large variety or number of plants in 2 or more gallons, you will need to still do fairly frequent water changes no matter what or how many plants you have. I still really recommend plants of course because they do help. 

What I am basically saying though is that unless you get 5 gallons and want to do the whole cycle thing, don't get a filter. It won't do you any good and will just make things more complicated in a way you don't need or want. 

I actually have had a 2 gallon, moderately planted with low light plants up for about a year now. It has a heater, and while it did start in a sunny window, when I moved I had to supplement with light. It only needs one water change a week, and the fish is wonderfully healthy. If you go to the last page you can see the most recent photo of it. 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=84180


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

LegalEagle2009 said:


> Hey, y'all!
> 
> Brand new Betta owner here. Brought Bilbo Baggins the Betta home on Saturday. I originally put him in a large bowl shaped vase I already had (1- 1/2 gallon sized). Added decorative marbles and a life peace lily. Submerged the roots of the peace lily. Leaves are sticking up out of the top. Have a decorative dragon that my bf's 12 y.o. picked out (he named fish, too).
> 
> ...


You could divide a 10 in half.


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## Neight (Oct 20, 2012)

I would suggest moving that peace lily out if you have a cat! Peace Lilies are extremely poisonous to cats, and can kill them quickly if ingested! Another great alternative, as mentioned, would be Anubias.


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## sareena79 (Sep 10, 2012)

I use pothos (devils ivy)


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

So, today I bought Bilbo a new home. A 3 gal cube with LED light. It came with a filter but I'm going to try maintaining the tank without it. I bought a tetra heater for the tank, put it with him in his bowl to warm the water in that up first. Have the new tank water standing for the next day. I also bought the water testing supplies. 

I'm going to ditch the peace lily now that I know it's toxic to cats. 

If I'm starting out getting plants for first time how many should I get and what are good first time options? 

Do I want snails in the plants? Will Bilbo eat some of them, such that overpopulation and growth of algae won't be a problem?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I like snails  personal preference really. I wrote an article for snail for the betta fish weekly, but it doesnt seem to have been published yet


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Assasin snails and keep the Peace lilies in the filter dont worry I keep pothos, lucky bamboo, and peace lilies and a dog.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Congrats on the fish and new set up!
If you're getting in pest snails with the live plants, they're harmless and shouldn't really overpopulate the tank too much unless you're overfeeding the betta. However, if you find that they are populating out of control and your betta seems to enjoy eating them (my VT loves snails) then fine, if your betta don't eat them and you want to get assassin snails (they eat pond snails[and they hunt in groups so more than one is ideal for larger snail populations]), keep in mind once the ponds are evacuated that the assassins will still need to eat. They like bloodworms and old fish food but I had a problem keeping my assassins fed in the same tank as my piggy bettas and now they're on their own in their own tank. 

If you want a vegetarian, algae eating snail that does not reproduce in fresh water and has a low bioload (for the 3g) then pick up a nerite or two.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

Congrats on your new upgrade and decision toward plants! Some that I have in my tanks that have done well are Anubias, Java moss, Java fern, Wisteria, Water sprite, and Green Cabomba. And I personally like my snails, especially the Malasian Trumpet Snails I introduced to help keep the sand in my tanks aerated.



> keep the Peace lilies in the filter dont worry I keep pothos, lucky bamboo, and peace lilies and a dog.


Dogs are not large cats. What may be toxic to a dog might not be toxic to a cat, or vice versa. In this case, the Peace Lily (_Spathiphyllum sp_.) happens to be extrememly toxic to both. However, while a dog may not be able to reach where you keep your plant, a cat is likely much more able and likely to jump onto a table and nibble on the leaves of a toxic plant. Whether you want to keep a plant that could potentially kill your pet is up to you - personally, as a person who works in a vet clinic and has seen the effects of toxicity and poisoning first hand, I wouldn't take the chance.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Since Bilbo was a replacement for my 13 y.o. dog who died a few days before I got Bilbo, and I would rather not lose my 13 y.o. Healthy cat anytime soon, I'm taking the peace lily back to Petco and will exchange it for live plants for Bilbo's new tank. I'm a little ticked that petco suggested the peace lily to me- as a way to keep my cat away from Bilbo. Seems like negligence to me.



My boyfriend laughs at me because he's seeing me act like a little girl with her first fishtank. I get all into this and excited.  

A question: my new tank came with an LED light. Am I still going to need Florescent lighting?


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

Ah, Petco. 'Tis a sea of bad information there. I think the idea is that most of the people there like animals, but most of them don't exactly know how to take care of the animals properly.

lol There's no shame in being excited! Some people get excited about a new videogame or TV show, others about new fish :-D

Do you happen to know the Kelvin rating of the LED light? Or it's wavelegnth in nanometers (nm)?


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok so I have just purchased: Mondo grass, java moss ball, java fern, cryptocoryne, and a peacock fern. I want to get some Anubias down the line I think.

Can you combine silk and real plants? I'd love to add some bright color to my tank. Bilbo is a scarlet and purple VT. Gravel is black. With all the green plants, not much color. Thinking of getting a silk plant just to brighten up the joint. Lol.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

My Petco most of the aquatics employees keep aquariums and know what there talking about there also older than the average Petco employee.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

There should be no reason that you can't use both live and silk plants, given that the silk plants you use are aquarium grade (eg. Have no metal stems that could rust and release toxins) 

And the age of the employee often has little correlation with how much they know about a topic. A teenager who has done his/her research, has good, reliable information backed up by facts, and is able to convey such information in a helpful and friendly manner could be far more reliable than, say, a person of middle age who is ill-informed, has not done the proper research, and/or is condesending and rude.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I was just stating the difference here most of the employees know what they are doing and are nice.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

I lucked out today in getting my local petco a biologist and fish expert. We were able to talk through several things. He doesn't know as much about plants, but our discussion has motivated him to go learn more.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

My Petco is likee that too they ask me for advice.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

LegalEagle2009 said:


> I lucked out today in getting my local petco a biologist and fish expert. We were able to talk through several things. He doesn't know as much about plants, but our discussion has motivated him to go learn more.


Cool!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Yes rare but not unheard of.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't know if this has been said already but for an unfiltered 3gal you only have to do two water changes a week. One 50% and one 100%


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I agree.


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## Caryliss (Oct 12, 2012)

Neight said:


> I would suggest moving that peace lily out if you have a cat! Peace Lilies are extremely poisonous to cats, and can kill them quickly if ingested!


Just FYI, Peace Lilies (Spathiphyllum) are not lilies, therefore are not toxic to cats. The worst to expect would be stomach upset.
<<is a veterinarian


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## Neight (Oct 20, 2012)

Caryliss said:


> Just FYI, Peace Lilies (Spathiphyllum) are not lilies, therefore are not toxic to cats. The worst to expect would be stomach upset.
> <<is a veterinarian


 I have seen first hand a cat dying after ingesting Peace Lily. I may not be a veterinarian, but I do know my plants, even if I am just a high school student. Not to mention that even if in some cases, Peace Lily may not kill your pet, it is not recommended to be kept near them, as every animal is different and will be affected differently, obviously. Not to mention information given out by major, and trusted, at that, organizations.
ASPCA | Peace Lily


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## inuudo (Aug 21, 2012)

LegalEagle2009 said:


> Ok so I have just purchased: Mondo grass, java moss ball, java fern, cryptocoryne, and a peacock fern. I want to get some Anubias down the line I think.


Mondo grass is a non-aquatic plant. I know that it's sold as an aquatic plant in some pet stores, and I , too, purchased it believing it would be fine. About a month after I planted it, someone told me that it was non-aquatic, and sure enough, the googler confirmed that information!

About two weeks after that, I had found a replacement plant and removed the mondo grass. About half of the plants had issues with the roots (separating from the stems, stunted growth, etc) and even though I replanted them in potting soil, they have not done well. :-(


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I am trusting the veternarion on the peace lilies.


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## MaisyDawgThirteen (Dec 7, 2011)

Do you have a heater? Heat is very important to betta fish, they need between 76F and 82F, but 78-80 is the best.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Is 80F healthy?


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/mauna-loa-peace-lily/
I wouldn't risk it. 

Chocolate, I keep mine at 80-1F. They love it.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Thanks I wanted to make sure Carter was okay.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

Caryliss said:


> Just FYI, Peace Lilies (Spathiphyllum) are not lilies, therefore are not toxic to cats. The worst to expect would be stomach upset.
> <<is a veterinarian


Cary, I meen no disrespect, but would you be willing to post a link to a reputable source (eg. a VIN article) that backs up that Peace lilies are not toxic? lol As a pre-vet student, I'm very interested in this topic.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

They are poisonus most common house plants are poisonus.


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## Caryliss (Oct 12, 2012)

pittipuppylove said:


> Cary, I meen no disrespect, but would you be willing to post a link to a reputable source (eg. a VIN article) that backs up that Peace lilies are not toxic? lol As a pre-vet student, I'm very interested in this topic.


I can't cut and paste VIN discussions as that is against the terms of service, but I can paraphrase a toxicologist who said that Peace lilies (Spathiphyllum spp.) and Calla lilies (Zantedeschia spp.) contain insoluble calcium oxalates and so cause oral and gastrointestinal irritation in dogs and cats but not acute renal failure the way true lilies do.


And this is from a session on Plant Toxicology from the British Small Animal Veterinary Congress of 2007, discussing the toxicity of true lilies (which peace lilies aren't):

*Lilium and Hemerocallis (Day Lily) Spp* 
Species involved include: Easter lily (_Lilium longiflorum_), tiger lily (_L. tigrinum_), rubrum lily (_L. speciosum_), stargazer lily (_L. auratum_), Japanese show lily (_L. lancifolimu_) and_ Hemerocallis _species. *Neither lily-of-the-valley (Convallaria majalis) nor the peace lily (Spathiphyllum spp) are true lilies and therefore do not have the same effects.* The toxin is unknown and all parts of the plant are toxic, leaves are often involved (Easter lily flowers are more toxic than the leaves). 
Typical clinical signs include vomiting, anorexia, lethargy, oliguria/anuria (acute renal failure in cats), central nervous system (CNS) signs, e.g., ataxia, head pressing, disorientation, tremors, seizures. Signs of toxicosis develop within 12 hours of ingestion and progress to renal failure within 2-3 days. Biochemistry reflects the renal failure and changes include azotaemia, hyperkalaemia and hyperphosphataemia. Urinalysis may reveal epithelial casts, submaximally concentrated specific gravity (inappropriate for the degree of azotaemia) and glucosuria. Treatment includes supportive management, e.g., early decontamination (induce emesis if <2 hours from ingestion, adsorbent administration), prevention/ treatment of renal failure and maintenance of fluid/electrolyte and acid-base balance. Fluid therapy should be continued for at least 48 hours to achieve diuresis, and renal function, including urine output, should be monitored. 
Dialysis may be required. If this toxicity occurs in a country where renal transplantation is available, it can be considered.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

So they are mildly poisonous.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you for posting that, and I stand corrected!

Chocolate, If I read the source that Cary posted correctly, Peace Lilies can cause irritation of the mouth, esophagus, stomach, intestines, etc., but will not cause kidney failure like a true lily would. Therefore, Peace Lilies are nowhere near as toxic as true lilies. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubinthebetta (Oct 9, 2012)

That certainly clears things up. I just read four pages of this and was extremely confused about whether peace lilies are toxic or not. So from what I can tell, peace lilies are poisonous, but not deadly. BTW, congrats on upgrading Bilbo, LegalEagle!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I meant mild as not super serous poinsettas are a common household plant and are mildly poisonus but to kill a healthy person it is like 1000 per ten pounds.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks! Bilbo seems pretty happy in his new cube. 

And peace lily was returned (not taking any chances). I may pull the mondo grass out and exchange it too.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Peace lilies are easier to care for plus your cat really should not be that close anyways.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

It's not easy to "tell" your cat where to go and not go. Ask my cat Oliver. They're self serving and if they want something, by god, they will make hell to get it.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Right in, Laki. My cat, Mojo, goes where she wants. Bilbo's tank is on the counter between my kitchen and dining/living rooms, so he's right in the middle of everything. His new cube tank has a lid, so my fish is in no danger from my cat. Plus, Mojo is more interested in drinking tank water than messing with the fish itself.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

I just dont think cats should ever be that close to fish tanks it could scare them.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Thought I'd post some pics here of Bilbo's new tank (and one pic showing the original bowl and the new tank- preplanting and transfer):


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

GORGEOUS! Congrats!


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Nice, if that is Java Fern the Rhizome cant be buried.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks, Rainbow! Still going to take the Mondo grass out and replace it with some other tall leafy thing for Bilbo to swim through and hide out in. Any suggestions? Ripple sword maybe? Need something fairly low maintenance for my first attempts.

Also debating still getting a snail or two to eat algae and leftover fish food when Bilbo drops a pellet or two.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Java Moss.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Choclate- What do you mean? What cannot be buried?

I have a java fern in the front right, four individual sprigs of Peacock fern spread throughout, a java moss ball floating at the top (with a weight), a crypto something in the back left and Mondo grass on the back right (which I'm going to replace).


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

The Rhizome can not have something on it.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Just did some quick internetz research. What I think you are saying is that, for my crypto and the java fern, I need to unbury them and attach them to something instead? Like some kind of rock or driftwood?


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Only the Java fern, Crypts dont need that.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok. I'll look for some small driftwood to put the java fern onto. All I have right now is a river rock that is really too big, I think, for this tank. I may boil it in waterbefore soaking it in conditioned water just in case. Maybe it would work.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

It will work great and pet stores sell driftwood and lava rock.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Ugh...was just looking at my peacock fern and it's looking a little thin, too, so did a search and learned it ALSO is non-aquatic. WTH do stores like PETCO sell Mondo grass and Peacock fern as aquatic plants when they aren't! So annoying. Gonna return it, too!


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

Petco only had HUGE rocks and driftwood when I was there, so I need to get smaller pieces elsewhere.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

If you check the label they say for aquariums and terriums and are semi-aquatic and aquatic.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

A search on the web, however, says Peacock ferns at best are semi-aquatic. Have to take them out every couple of days and let them dry off before putting them back in. Which is a lot of work when you have four separate sprigs throughout. Would be a different story if they were attached to something but I have them just planted in the substrate.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

You could plant them in a bottle and fill it halfway with water.


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## LegalEagle2009 (Oct 25, 2012)

To put in the tank? I only have a 3 gal cube. Can't go crazy with objects or Bilbo won't have room to swim.


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Not in the tank just so they are safe and can grow.


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## pittipuppylove (Feb 23, 2012)

Another thing you can do with the Java Fern is tie it to a small-ish rock and just set it in the tank if you don't want it tied to anything major - it just has to be big enough to keep the plant from floating until the plant sends out roots. That's what I do with any plantlets I get from mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

As long as the Rhizomes buried you can root it in.


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## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

no, the rhizome cannot be buried on the java!! I have both of mine anchored to something. One is on driftwood, the other is tied up on a plastic hornwort toy (I plucked most of the plastic parts off, mostly it's tied onto the stone to sink it)


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## ChoclateBetta (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry meant to type in not buried guess the not did not get entered.


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