# Breeder's Choice (I Want It But No Room!)



## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

Have you ever seen a betta on Aquabid or somewhere else and you have your mouse over the bid button, gritting your teeth knowing that betta won't go with your breeding plan or just not the time to raise a spawn from them but you STILL WANT IT.

Well, here is your fix.

I decided to post this thread to help vent both mine and hopefully other breeders urge to purchase every nice fish they come across on Aquabid and other sites. 

I want to mention this before someone comments on it. 

***This thread is for people who are interested in high quality bettas, I have no personal problems with people who want to raise pet stores bettas AS LONG as they have thorough plan, start to finish of what they will do with the fry when they are of age to give to homes.***

But, to prevent members from posting pictures of any fish and saying "This fish is pretty with its colors" Here will be the rules for this thread.

1. A picture(s) of the betta in question with a link to their page.
2. WHY you would want to breed this fish. 
3. What would need to be improved in further generations if bred.
4. List what in the potential mate should have to help improve form/color in the future generations (If you find one just link that too!). Or say a sibling would be sufficient to continue the line.

I thought this could be a fun, educational thread for new breeders or members interested in what a good fish looks like (Diagrams are great but I think a picture of real fish is better.) Along with people who are looking for a pair can browse here and find a pair that piques their interest with the Breeder's Choice stamp of approval ;-)

So I will start first!










http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1342439236

I have to say, this female gets a big A+ from me, her finnage is clean cut with a great D shaped caudal for a female. A broad dorsal base with a strong, spindle shaped body with good scaling. Her anal is a little long but has good shape to it. Her color is great is well!

In future generations I would shorten the anal and begin to get a long, first ray in the fry.

The male should have a rectangular shaped anal that lines up with his caudal, it could be difficult to find this so I would keep a sharp eye out for one. A male with an upright dorsal that points forward would be preferred. I know the breeder of this female had a few males posted prior so you could ask if he still has them. (I couldn't find a male at this time that I thought would match her the best).

I hope to see other breeder's picks!

-Sincerely


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

That female is great but it seem like she have a spoon head


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

First I'd like to say that I really love the idea of this thread. It will help people(ME) vent about all the fish on AB that we just die to have. Also adding the educational part of why and such is a good touch so new breeders and other people learning how to choose decent breeding stock.

Okay well here is mine!:-D:










This here pictured is a male HMPK. He is also an asymmetrical HMPK. His coloration would be categorized as Marble HMPK.

I personally would breed him because of his overall form. The form is great. Very minor flaws for a HMPK. His Caudal is just a little rounded as well as the Anal fin. The anal fin seems to curve when it is supposed to come to a point. The Spine is also a little curved (minor spoon head), but it's not horribly shaped and can be overlooked as well as the dip in the separation between the dorsal fin and caudal fin. The small spoon head will not be passed on to a lot of the fry if the female doesn't have a spoon head.

Overall, he would be a great breeder because he has the ideal wide dorsal fin as well as having and over 180* caudal. The ventrals are also very nice! They have the nice upside down knife shape to them. All of the flaws stated above are minor and can be fixed with a nicely formed female or possibly a sibling female.

A potential female for this male would have to have sharp edged fins and either no spoonhead or a small spoon head. A nice colored marble like him will have great fry. Try to stay away from solid colors (if you're going for color and you have form under control) since solid colors will not be present in the line.


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## VictorP (Jun 5, 2012)

Sincerely, is that female a dt geno?


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## jeffegg2 (Apr 5, 2012)

I think this subject would be better placed under another heading... it really has nothing to do with breeding and I'll constantly have to enter the subject to mark it read.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I had found a black and white marble PK male.... I WANTED HIM!!!  LOL. I don't have a picture...  But I would've tried to improve on the anal fin as it seemed a bit too long for my taste. :roll:


Anywho, a picture of a betta I DO have and intend to breed... Ricky. Overall he is not bad, (other than eating eggs and babies which I believe was because of the female's eggs, not him...after some trials)... I don't like his extended belly look, and he may have PK in his lines (he is an import) and his caudal is too short because of it.

I'd be choosing a female with more even rays, better body line, and a more even caudal. Which I finally got :lol: She's a blue/white marble with green/purple edging.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Actually, this thread is all about breeding. It's giving new breeders a chance at seeing what (breeders) would choose as breeding stock. It shows what we look for in breeding stock as well. Also what do you mean, you'll have to mark it read?

I think of it as "At least it's not one of those POINTLESS threads about how bettas love us or a ranting thread." So personally I believe that members will look at this thread as helpful. Also If you think this thread has nothing to do with breeding, then you would think that the other threads of people asking "Is this a good fish?" has nothing to do with breeding as well.



jeffegg2 said:


> I think this subject would be better placed under another heading... it really has nothing to do with breeding and I'll constantly have to enter the subject to mark it read.


Sena, he is a very pretty CT, but I believe this thread is dedicated mostly to Show quality fish from either AB or another show quality breeder.



Sena Hansler said:


> I had found a black and white marble PK male.... I WANTED HIM!!!  LOL. I don't have a picture...  But I would've tried to improve on the anal fin as it seemed a bit too long for my taste. :roll:
> 
> 
> Anywho, a picture of a betta I DO have and intend to breed... Ricky. Overall he is not bad, (other than eating eggs and babies which I believe was because of the female's eggs, not him...after some trials)... I don't like his extended belly look, and he may have PK in his lines (he is an import) and his caudal is too short because of it.
> ...


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

Yes Victor P she does carry the DT geno, I saw last week quite a few DT siblings of hers and they were nice.

Jeff, if you feel that this is a pointless thread with nothing pertaining to breeding by all means ignore it. I just wanted to make a thread to help people see and find good breeding stock(perhaps even purchase to start their own lines). I have seen many people(Including myself) ask to critique a fish they found or ask how we choose the breeding stock we use. This could help clarify and reasolve such questions IMO.

Also, I do not mind if people post their own fish if they are stating what would be said of them at a show. Such as weaknesses, strengths and what would have to be revamped inorder to begin a line dedicated to form, finnage and color.

-Sincerely


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

So my import fish aren't to be posted? Well...I'll take my leave.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

So I found this boy while digging abit more into the pictures of halfmoons.









Sorry about the picture, I didn't realize the entire template was the picture LOL
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1342961232

I would breed this boy because he has AWESOME symmetry. A short anal fin that points forward, a long front dorsal ray, sharp caudal edge but the corners could be tidied up in the following generation. He has minimal branching which I love, great for girls who are on the heavy side. And what about that color? Its gorgeous, if I wanted to start a unique marble line I would probably go for this boy.

For the next generation I would work on making the caudal edges smoother than what they are and retaining the long dorsal ray and short anal.

I would highly recommend using a sibling female for this boy, so you keep the color, form and finnage consistent. I would ask for a sibling female who has smoother edges than this boy.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

This thread died down fast... I'd post my doubletail, but he isn't "high quality" he;'s just "quality". That and I do not have pictures anymore x.x


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I will keep posting fish I see but I haven't liked any new ones that have been posted so far. I will probably check to see again if there is anything, I am picky ;-) 

I am sad to see that many people did not take interest in this thread. I thought it would be fun.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I think it would have been better, if it were for quality fish...not just show quality. Like, you could breed, but even may have to improve a lot more than a show quality/high quality fishy.

(although I will say I want that last one you posted)


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I liked your example for your male Sena, it went into explanation of what needed to be improved. I may start posting examples like that, because how would you learn if only near perfect fish are posted? Many fish are great breeders but couldn't be shown due to faults (I have the perfect example,
I have a female from my current spawn who has outstanding finnage and form but she has red wash in her fins. I will most likely keep and breed her to a marble male, although she could never be shown.) 

Also, really liked that male I posted and I saw someone bid on him ;-) I was very tempted to get him.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I am sad you did not get him LOL one of a kind! My bro cannot wait for my CT spawn...

Well if you'd let me... I will post my doubeltail Richie. I like his color but his caudal and fins need to be 'evened' out. Being an import he is awfully small... I would need a very young but not stunted female. He would be a lot of work x.x (he is my avatar lol)


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Sena! By all means please post any fish you'd like as long as it comes with a description.



Sena Hansler said:


> I am sad you did not get him LOL one of a kind! My bro cannot wait for my CT spawn...
> 
> Well if you'd let me... I will post my doubeltail Richie. I like his color but his caudal and fins need to be 'evened' out. Being an import he is awfully small... I would need a very young but not stunted female. He would be a lot of work x.x (he is my avatar lol)


Actually Sincerely, your fish could definitely be shown because of her form. In the IBC, fish are shown mostly because of their form, while others may have some great color and form, they are usually judged by their form first depending on the category you enter.



Sincerely said:


> I liked your example for your male Sena, it went into explanation of what needed to be improved. I may start posting examples like that, because how would you learn if only near perfect fish are posted? Many fish are great breeders but couldn't be shown due to faults (I have the perfect example,
> I have a female from my current spawn who has outstanding finnage and form but she has red wash in her fins. I will most likely keep and breed her to a marble male, although she could never be shown.)
> 
> Also, really liked that male I posted and I saw someone bid on him ;-) I was very tempted to get him.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Interesting I never knew that LOL.

And i just realized the flaws in Richie of I were to breed him... Well I better find a good female :lol: 

Altair has a random pin hole in his anal fin. I'd breed him to an HMPK for the caudal evening :-D actually... This does help with thinking what, how, and why to breed..


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I am actually really enthusiastic about this thread.  Due to my inexperience in recognizing great form though, I'd probably be just a reader.  I have a decent eye for balance and toplines, but other more intricate matters with the fins elude me. 

Sincerely, I'm the one who placed a bid on that boy you recommended.  If you go only a dollar up though, you can outbid me, and I won't fight you for him. I had no idea you wanted him, and I don't mind, really! I have so many!


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

Hmm, its so tempting! But, I made this thread so I help suppress the urge to splurge on every nice boy I see. I would really like to see that boy bred, he is just too nice. Would you be breeding him Ina?


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I hope to begin breeding before the end of the year. Just need to make sure I find a few LFS that will want my fish. Will either need to be no later than October (since Holidays will mess up my schedule) or after Christmas.

I just bought my first female! A pretty white girl, so I definitely want to breed her to someone.

Just need to make sure I have thoroughly researched (though I've been reading already) and that I have gathered everything I need.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I hope to see a spawn log soon then of your endeavors then! ;-) 

I know myself and I said no more pairs for me! I have a lot to breed as it is!

You will have to take pictures of when he comes in!

When I get home and I am not typing on my phone I will post a new fish ;-)


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Oh, I got a fish to post*

Well this isn't the best quality, but he was bought from AB.










I decided not to breed him because I had no pairing females for him. Though I bought him because I wanted to breed him to a light dragon. A female that would throw a lot of cellos and at the time I was only thinking about the colors that he would give rather the form he would help with.

As you can see, he doesn't have the best form or finnage. It is exceptional though. It is also doable to work with. Yes there would have to be a bit more fixing than other breeders. If I did breed him, I would have to work on first of all his edging in general. His fins are really rounded and should be a bit sharper. The anal fin is one of the most rounded aside of the caudal. It should come down to a sharper point.

A potential female to pair him to (looking mostly at form), I would suggest a sharp edged female to help with his fins. A female that has a nice broad dorsal (if possible) and a wide caudal because his caudal is very rounded. If you were breeding for color, I would prefer a dragon or even a dragon geno. Breeding a non dragon to a dragon is going to give less than 75% dragon, some with just dragon scaling patches all over the body and then some that are dragon genos. A light colored female would be ideal for him. If he had come with a sibling, that would be much more easy to work with.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

So I just bought this girl:










I got her because, while her dorsal is rather small, her form seems rather nice, from what I can tell.

I wonder what sort of male would compliment her. He'd need to have a large dorsal, for one thing. I have this male coming in the same shipment with her:










I realize that his anal fin is rather long, but I'm hoping she can balance him out.

I just love salamanders.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

First I'd like to say that everytime I see you post pictures of your fish you get or have and then look at your avatar, that is literally the face I make when I see them.

The white female is amazing and the salamander male is also very nice. Yes the anal fin is a bit long, but it's not REALLY huge and it won't be that much of a big thing to work with. As picky as I am with HM's, Ive taken the time to try and accept an anal fin that's sort of longer than the caudal because its extremely rare for me to find others that aren't from Thailand.



inareverie85 said:


> So I just bought this girl:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I have to find a nice HM pair.... I asked around my area and someone wants dumbos HM DeT and super delta.... 

Btw dumbos... Love them! But do not know the first thing about breeding them..


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Sena, there really isn't a special way to breed Dumbos. They are just bettas with enlarged pectorals.



Sena Hansler said:


> I have to find a nice HM pair.... I asked around my area and someone wants dumbos HM DeT and super delta....
> 
> Btw dumbos... Love them! *But do not know the first thing about breeding them..*


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I'd pair that girl with a white male. Her color is too nice to give up.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm sure you miss your platinums MrVampire.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Whites are really nice. I love colors, too, though.

One great thing about whites is that I'll be able to rehome the fry VERY easily. I'll need to think about it.

I have several males and only this girl so far. She may mother spawns with more than one boy during her prime breeding age. 

I am eyeing another girl currently, but her anal is a bit long for my tastes.. Still, she has some good traits, and she's a white girl with some red marbling in her finnage. She'd compliment my all-time favorite fish, Valentino, perfectly.


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## Maura (May 13, 2012)

bettalover2033 said:


> Actually, this thread is all about breeding. It's giving new breeders a chance at seeing what (breeders) would choose as breeding stock. It shows what we look for in breeding stock as well. Also what do you mean, you'll have to mark it read?
> 
> I think of it as "At least it's not one of those POINTLESS threads about how bettas love us or a ranting thread." So personally I believe that members will look at this thread as helpful. Also If you think this thread has nothing to do with breeding, then you would think that the other threads of people asking "Is this a good fish?" has nothing to do with breeding as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this thread. I'll be beginning my endeavors into the breeding world in December (winter break) and I'm trying to learn as much as I can in the meantime, including which fish to pick out of the hundreds on AB to start with.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

If you want a white male/pair let me know. Mine are three months old and growing. Should be ready soon (in a month or so).


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I would be all over that except.. I bought her because she was labeled as a halfmoon female, and you breed HMPK, right?

Was I misled? I can never tell the difference between HM and HMPK girls..


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

This girl looks HMPK to me. The other female you asked about was HM. 

Regardless, HM to HMPK produces stronger rays and helps later generations of long fins hold better.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

MrVampire181 said:


> This girl looks HMPK to me. The other female you asked about was HM.
> 
> Regardless, HMPK to HMPK produces stronger rays and helps later generations of long fins hold better.


I'll need to get with you about a nice male then, when your fish are grown. 

To be honest though, I am a tad disappointed that this girl isn't an HM. She was in the HM section on AB along with the other female. The majority of the seller's fish though are in the HMPK section. She's still a very nice fish, of course, but I guess I just feel a bit.. misled.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

She may have come from a cross. She may fin out later


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

Breeder: Smilebetta
Age: 3.4 Months










http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1342965527

I decided to share this boy because at first glance he looks like a promising fish, that is until you take a closer look ;-)

This boy has a few good things but he has more minus marks than plus marks in my book. His coloring is very good for a Red Dragon, he has very minimal silver wash in his fins, something that seems hard come by in this type. He is balanced pretty well except for his sloped anal fin which detracts from the symmetry, and I would prefer his ventral's to be longer and fuller than what they are. He has a very nicely shaped body but his peduncle could be a smidgen wider to help support all that finnage. Speaking of which, lets address his branching, its a wavy, twisty mess in his caudal which cause his tail to become RT. His caudal edge is not a sharp 180, because of his bent branching it has warped it. Lastly, his dorsal lines up well with the caudal but there is a first short ray although it points forward, it needs a broader base as well.
Lastly, it looks to me that he either has a injury that's healing on his flank or its a mis-coloration on his scales.

Like stated before, there would be a lot that would need to be cleaned up in the future generations but if you got a exceptional DT red dragon female you could probably pull off a decent quality spawn. So if you are up to the challenge of cleaning up and then creating a line of high caliber red dragons this boy could be a step forward in the color category. But it would entail a lot of work so I would prefer to find a perhaps another boy than this one.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I sure hope so, Mr. V!

And yeah, Sincerely, his fins look like a hot mess!  He's still a beautiful boy though.

I have two more opinion questions for you all (hope I'm still within the general idea of this thread). I have two other great fish that I'd like to someday breed. I have found females that are suitable color-wise, but in terms of form, I am not entirely certain. I can most certainly wait if these females are not suitable.

My first male is another AB purchase I made last week.










Lovely, right? 

Well, I have found this girly, though I will definitely mail the breeder before purchasing to make sure she's an HM (and not an HMPK). 










Her color is amazing, topline seems ok. Her anal fin isn't too long. I'm worried about the caudal. Is it just me or does it look strange near the top end?


Next, my favorite fish I've ever had, Valentino. He's beautiful. No, he's amazing! Well, not to everyone, I suppose, but I just love his vibrant reds with his white (painted-on-looking) accents! I'd love to rear fry that look like him, and I'd probably be tempted to keep them all. 



















I know he needs a lot of work. For one, his ventrals are too small. Much too small, I think. Secondly, his topline isn't very clean, so I'd need a female with an EXCELLENT one to compensate. I suppose I shouldn't be pushing to breed my favorite pet, but if finding a nice female could possibly produce a great quality spawn, I'd love to try.

Anyho, finding a female with similar coloration isn't especially easy, especially since I don't want to go for the very thick-scaled red dragon look.

But this girl popped up on AB:










What do you guys think? I know her anal is a bit long, and that's bad.

I guess she's just tempting because a female like that doesn't just appear on AB every day.

I need to remind myself to not rush when picking my stock though. I need to do this the right way.

I think she has a good body, in general. But her rays seem... somewhat bent. maybe I'm wrong. There's also a lot of branching in there. What's the cut-off point when one is trying to avoid rosetail spawns?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

You have a very good eye. 

The first female you posted for the blue boy is NICE.

Second pair is average, not the best but a good start


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Great news! I actually mailed the seller to ask the tail type of my new female, and he assured me that she is an HM. I guess just a very young girl.  That makes me happy.

I won the male that you posted up, Sincerely, but I lost the second (red) female in my last post.  Someone came in and swiped her from me last minute. Ah well, I guess that happens.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

OMG what beautiful fish! *drool drool*


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## VictorP (Jun 5, 2012)

The first pairings offspring will have long anals.


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## Jrf456 (Jun 23, 2011)

Nice post.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

What I meant about dumbos.... Is being unsure what challenges there are... So i made a thread for it  and figured dumbos are something I wont breed just yet


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Swiped this girl as soon as I saw her.










I think I'm in love.


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## magnum (May 7, 2012)

She is very beautiful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkevICnJnV0&feature=g-all-u

I don't have pictures, but I believe these two could make some beautiful HMPK marble fry.


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

inareverie85 said:


> Swiped this girl as soon as I saw her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lucky you did because I would have grabbed her as soon as I saw her! Gorgeous!


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

@ina: She looks like a DT geno. You should evaluate her


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Well, it's hard to tell about her caudal, since the photo isn't a full-spread. But I love her wide dorsal (is that the DT in her?), and, while her anal is a bit long, the rays are nice and clean, from what I can tell. She has a really nice topline, can't tell about the scaling.

I really like her


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes, the wide dorsal on her is from the DT gene.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

She's from Linda's personal stock. She's just a marvel! Between these girls and the ones Im getting from Karen, I think I'll be all set.  Might look around casually for a platinum/red girly.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

So do you folks still check this thread much? I need an opinion on two white males that I am thinking of for my new female.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

I still do, I am needing to post some new boys I saw for sale that I like very much. Feel free to post fish, I do not mind giving fish a critique ;-)


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

Sincerely gives great advice too


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1343702386


I saw this boy and he is a good example of some good things and some bad things. You could use this boy as breeder stock for a multi/bicolor line but I would be extra stringent in getting a well matching female.

So lets start out with this boy's finnage, it is very symmetrical which is his greatest asset. But the edges are very rough and his branching is uneven, you could even call this boy to be a RT. He is an OHM with a sharp caudal edge with a D shaped caudal. He has a forward pointing dorsal with a long first ray, a big plus. Although I would prefer his dorsal base to be abit wider so it is 1/2 his body length. He has a short, pointing forward anal fin which is great, full ventral's that match the anal length. Now about his body, it is very thick so it supports his finnage very well, unfortunately it looks like he has quite the spoon-head and this counts against him.

So for this male I think the best match for him would be a SD/HM DT female, so you can work on widening the dorsal base, help to keep the thick body (But not a short body) and start to reduce the branching so you can clean up the edges and reduce branching. You could use a HM female but try to find one who has minimal branching, if she is even a DT geno that could help with widening the dorsal base.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks  I am a bit torn between these two boys. Not super-torn. I already have a preference, but I'm not sure it goes well with my girl.

So, once again, this is my female:









I am likely to breed her to a number of males while she's still in her prime, but I really took Mr. Vampire's thought to heart, that her stunning white color is one of her greatest features. So I have been on the hunt for quality males.

First boy, and my favorite so far. He has a pretty good body. Topline is ok. His finnage seems, to my novice eyes, pretty nice and balanced. The rays are clean enough, though the anal could use some work, perhaps. My female has a great anal, though. My main concern is that his dorsal isn't large enough to compensate for her very small one.










The second male has a much larger dorsal. His anal fins is also more clean, and he has fewer rays overall. His topline, however, is not as strong, and his caudal seems.. a bit flat, maybe? Perhaps I'm using the wrong word. 










This isn't necessarily a question of who's the best boy (I think my first male would win that vote), but rather a question of who will produce the best babies with my lovely girl.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

They're both nice boys! 

That girl from Linda is nice! Good thing you got her before I drove over there and stole her 

BL2033, not always does a wide dorsal mean DT. All bettas are bred for wide dorsals.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Which male do you think is more appropriate, Mr. V? I want my offspring to be as show-worthy as possible, even if I don't show this year.

I want to begin several lines of show quality bettas.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

So call me a brat if you like, but neither of them are really standing out to me (Both are nice boys but they just give me the impression of "meh" I think I am spoiled LOL). If you are in a rush to find a boy for her I would say boy #2, he is a better match for her. If you are still browsing I would wait until perhaps something else appears. ;-)


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I am in no rush.  Breeding won't be happening for at least another month or longer, and I will have other pairs I can work with first.

If they aren't great quality for breeding, I am most certainly happy to wait for the right one. It'll cost the same, anyway. Each of these boys is $30, well, $35 from Thailand.

And I've learned from years of keeping fish that impatience is the greatest mistake that people make.


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Boy #1 has a better body, more symmetry, and more branching... which could lead to RT.

Boy #2 has a not so great body, less branching, nice symmetry as well. The less branching will reduce RT chances and her body will even out his.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I've become addicted to the idea of whites.

I passed on the males I listed, will wait for the perfect one.

But I did buy a second female. Genetic diversity and all that jazz  She's not as great as my other white, but I think she is definitely very nice.











She has a nice body, topline is ok, lots or rays on her caudal, though the edges are definitely not sharp. Will need to work on that. Her dorsal is larger than my other gal, and her anal is not overly long. I think she's definitely in a good place.

What do you all think? I think these girls are both rather nice, and they can correct possibly inherited faults in each other's offspring. This girl can help with smaller dorsals, the other girl has superior anal fin length and caudal structure.

It will all come down to the boy(s), I guess. But I like the idea of having two pairs, all from different genetic pools, to start.


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## Sincerely (Apr 22, 2012)

Both are promising females ;-)

I love whites, but for me form always comes before color. Even if I love the color I sit on my hands knowing eventually a better one will come along. I wanted to mention that female #2 seems to have longer ventral's than usual, or it may just be the way she is holding them. You will have to tell me when they come in ;-)

I thought I would post this girl since the bid has bumped up to 51.00$








http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1343704718

Unsure as to why she is being so viciously bid on (Its really between two people), overall she is an average HM female. It must be because she is a Chocolate female, although the blue wash in her would say otherwise. Her dorsal is very nice for a girl, good shape and dorsal base (I do not think she has DT in her bloodline.) Her caudal needs some work, I would prefer sharper edges and a wider spread than what she has (especially considering the branching she has for such a spread. She needs less branching and more webbing to help create more spread.), her corners round as well. The anal fin is sloped and should be level and could be a smidgen shorter. Her scaling is not uniform, it seems to warp behind her pectorals. A slight dip in the topline near the head.

Personally, I would not breed this girl. There is too much work to start a line with unless you are up for a challenge. Chocolate's are not common but her blue wash could ruin it if you are trying to keep color's clean. Like I said this is an average female seen on Aquabid commonly up for bid.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

I saw her, myself. Had no idea the bids were that high though! Would not have expected that.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Ive been wanting to breed white... forever. 
But I've gotten soooo picky with form & finnage that I never find AB fish good enough. 
I'm always looking, though


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## Anitax3x (Aug 26, 2011)

vilmarisv said:


> Ive been wanting to breed white... forever.
> But I've gotten soooo picky with form & finnage that I never find AB fish good enough.
> I'm always looking, though


I am the exact same way. Maybe we are just picky LOL.


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

Probably... hopefully Karen's plans for her white will work and she'll create her own line.


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

So, I see that you're all very picky with form, which is good. But all I guess I understand from those posts is that my fish do not meet your standards. I'd like to know where they fall short though.

I am just wondering what the defects are with my own girls. So I know what to improve?


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## vilmarisv (Apr 17, 2010)

I think you've matched your fish very well looking to balance their strenght ans weaknesses. 

I'm particularly picky with imports as I've never had one survive past 4 months and I'm not willing to pay a pricetag that high when I can get a non-white outstanding fish form Karen. 
Your first white female is stunning and one I would've probably picked up for myself. 

I'll be looking for your results in this pairing!


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## inareverie85 (Apr 18, 2008)

Ah, I see.  I thank you for the compliments.

Really though, if you guys can tell me what to prioritize when seeking boys, please do.

I'm just wanting to learn.


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## Twilight Storm (Apr 14, 2011)

I just saw this thread for the first time. inareverie85 I love that black and blue male HM you posted back there in the thread. I about died when I saw him. I may just come and fish-nap him from you lol!!

I love the idea of this thread btw. I am enjoying myself looking at the fish and using what I learned, against what the person posting, posted about the fish, then reading other members views and seeing how my own compared.  Edited to clarify it was this guy below. Love him.


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