# Pure Ammonia



## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

Where to you buy pure ammonia in Ontario, Canada????

No one seems to have it.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I have no idea, but I can tell you this:

It took me an awful long time searching before I found pure ammonia, and when I did, I attempted a fishless cycle with it for 2 months. Nothing. Then I went and bought a $7 bottle of Tetra Safestart and used it and it literally cycled my tank immediately.

I've heard that it has to be used in a fish-in cycle (too high of ammonia will just kill the bacteria in SafeStart) which is what I used it in, but it worked amazingly, and it's worked for others here, too. I think it doesn't work for people who are trying to use it to speed up a fishless cycle.

At least, that's why I'm assuming you're asking about pure ammonia  This is just my personal opinion. A $7 bottle of SafeStart is way more worth it to me than the hassle to find ammonia, attempt to cycle a tank, test every day, etc...


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I have no idea, but I can tell you this:
> 
> It took me an awful long time searching before I found pure ammonia, and when I did, I attempted a fishless cycle with it for 2 months. Nothing. Then I went and bought a $7 bottle of Tetra Safestart and used it and it literally cycled my tank immediately.
> 
> ...


Already used the SafeStart. i've had my fish for over 3 months, the tank cycled with SafeStart, but i lost it when i added a snail a month ago.
I re-added SafeStart 9 days ago.
Problem is that my fish developed fin rot 7 days in so i took him out to treat him with AQ salt.
I need an ammonia source...i've added a bunch of omega one pellets, but i don't think it will be enough ammonia to keep the cycle going.
I currently have a reading of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 15 nitrates,
i'm on day 9


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Is the snail still in there? If so, that's plenty enough ammonia to keep the cycle fed.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah, the cycle won't crash with the snail in there. I had the same issue, so I know why you are concerned.

The cycle will only be as strong as the amount of livestock in the tank feeding it (if that makes sense). So if you were to have three snails, the cycle would establish so that it would support the bio-load of exactly three snails. Any more and there is a mini-cycle.

I'm not sure what the bio-load of a snail is compared to a betta, but I think the food itself will be just fine if the snail is still in there... I think pure ammonia might harm the snail.

Anyways, I got my pure ammonia from Ace Hardware, but since you are in Canada, I have NO idea what you have there. It's like 10% janitorial strength ammonia or something like that.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Is the snail still in there? If so, that's plenty enough ammonia to keep the cycle fed.


No the snail was removed after 1 day, that was a month ago.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Yeah, the cycle won't crash with the snail in there. I had the same issue, so I know why you are concerned.
> 
> The cycle will only be as strong as the amount of livestock in the tank feeding it (if that makes sense). So if you were to have three snails, the cycle would establish so that it would support the bio-load of exactly three snails. Any more and there is a mini-cycle.
> 
> ...


My readings today were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 15 nitrate

no one here seems to have ammonia...i don't know what to do??


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

If the cycle crashes, the bacteria will die and cause an ammonia spike, so I don't think you've lost your cycle yet.

If you can't find pure ammonia, I honestly don't know what else to tell you besides to continue dropping in pellets or use something like SafeStart when you put him back in there. You can try the raw shrimp thing? Or could you possibly put the snail back in?

If the entire cycle crashes, it takes forever to re-cycle. If you lose some of your BB but not all, it won't take near as long to re-cycle. So even if you can maintain a weak cycle, it's better than no cycle at all.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> If the cycle crashes, the bacteria will die and cause an ammonia spike, so I don't think you've lost your cycle yet.
> 
> If you can't find pure ammonia, I honestly don't know what else to tell you besides to continue dropping in pellets or use something like SafeStart when you put him back in there. You can try the raw shrimp thing? Or could you possibly put the snail back in?
> 
> If the entire cycle crashes, it takes forever to re-cycle. If you lose some of your BB but not all, it won't take near as long to re-cycle. So even if you can maintain a weak cycle, it's better than no cycle at all.


I don't have the snail anymore....my fish head butted and freaked so i gave him away.

I just re-checked water....
.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 15 nitrates


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can use raw shrimp, but the pellets should be giving it enough ammonia to eat off of.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

*Update:*

I found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
at a small co-op feed place, but, i don't know the strength of it....it doesn't say anywhere
it just says "household ammonia"

So, i added 10 drops....and tested
it now tests at 1ppm ammonia

is this enough??
when do i test again??


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

That'll be plenty, any more might kill any BB you have left. I would test in another 24 hours... See if its at 0 or still 1. If it's at 0 you can keep adding 10 drops daily.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> That'll be plenty, any more might kill any BB you have left. I would test in another 24 hours... See if its at 0 or still 1. If it's at 0 you can keep adding 10 drops daily.


Good.
My nitrates are at 15ppm right now


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything unless you did a water change very recently.

If you don't see much change in ammonia in 24 hours, I would actually do a 50% change to lower the ammonia. It is possible that some of your BB died off and they might not be able to handle 1 ppm ammonia right now.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything unless you did a water change very recently.
> 
> If you don't see much change in ammonia in 24 hours, I would actually do a 50% change to lower the ammonia. It is possible that some of your BB died off and they might not be able to handle 1 ppm ammonia right now.


Checked water this morning ...
1ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10/20ppm nitrates

Same readings as yesterday. What do i do now?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Basically, you wait. You can completely restart the cycle and build up to 4ppm ammonia or just leave it at 1ppm, either way you'll want to test daily. If by some chance there is still some BB alive, adding more ammonia could possibly kill them off. You could probably try lowering the ammonia first before adding up to 4ppm.

Cycling is kind of annoying because its guess, test, guess, test every single day. That's why I use SafeStart to cycle mine, lol. I'm lazy.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Basically, you wait. You can completely restart the cycle and build up to 4ppm ammonia or just leave it at 1ppm, either way you'll want to test daily. If by some chance there is still some BB alive, adding more ammonia could possibly kill them off. You could probably try lowering the ammonia first before adding up to 4ppm.
> 
> Cycling is kind of annoying because its guess, test, guess, test every single day. That's why I use SafeStart to cycle mine, lol. I'm lazy.


I did add SafeStart 11 days ago...that's why i removed my fish to treat him, cause i didn't want to ruin the SafeStart process.
Maybe i've killed it already??


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Safe start can only be used with fish-in cycles because ammonia levels in fish less cycles will kill them. No food source will also kill them, as will any exposure to untreated tap water, or turning off the filter too long.

But yes, depending on what you were treating him with, it could kill the BB but the safestart "process" is nearly instant.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Safe start can only be used with fish-in cycles because ammonia levels in fish less cycles will kill them. No food source will also kill them, as will any exposure to untreated tap water, or turning off the filter too long.
> 
> But yes, depending on what you were treating him with, it could kill the BB but the safestart "process" is nearly instant.


My fish was taken out on day 8 to a QT tank to treat, so nothing was done to the tank.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah and the food source was removed for 3 days. What I'm saying is the safestart probably worked, but the BB were starved of food and crashed the cycle.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Yeah and the food source was removed for 3 days. What I'm saying is the safestart probably worked, but the BB were starved of food and crashed the cycle.


But, i kept adding pellets and the ammonia was .25


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Hmm. Are you sure it was cycled, then?


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Hmm. Are you sure it was cycled, then?


I never said it was cycled.
Now i'm really confused.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Lol, safestart worked like a charm for me but its possible that yours did not work. How much did you add to the tank?

You would've had to do some tests to be sure it cycled. I've heard good and bad things about safestart, and I've also found that it never works for fish less cycles when ammonia is dosed too high.

Of course there are other factors that negatively affect the cycle which I stated in a previous post.

It seems that since you have the pure ammonia now and the tank is not cycled, you'll have to attempt to fish less cycle the tank. I haven't had good experiences with this, lol, but I can give you the info that I know might help your tank cycle faster.

You'll want to dose to 4ppm ammonia. This will not be too high to establish a cycle but also will establish a cycle that is definitely strong enough to support just one betta. It is also supposed to cycle faster at this higher amount.

The bacteria pretty much falls from the sky so if your tank is covered well, it will be difficult to do. Increasing the temp to 82-84 degrees will help the BB grow faster, as will more gas exchange, so if your filter is adjustable or baffled, it will help to unbaffle it or create a stronger flow while cycling. Remember to never add any unconditioned tap water to avoid killing your BB and never turn off the filter. The lighting might be best if its dim or off but this is probably not a big deal.

Don't let the BB starve by making sure you keep the ammonia up. This process can take a month or two, but fish less cycling will always be safer for your fish than fish-in cycling. It might help if you have an already established cycled tank to transfer over some gravel or filter media.

Otherwise, like I said, you can try a bacteria in a bottle like safestart. There are others with better reviews, though, such as Dr. Tim's live nitrifying bacteria, or Biospira, but these are more expensive and harder to find in my experience. It's all kind of up to you. If you have the patience to go the pure ammonia route (which I don't after trying for months) then go for it! Otherwise, do what you think is best for your fish.

Also I have been told that the bacteria in the air is less abundant when the air is dryer (like during the winter). Also consider the surface area in your tank including gravel, decor, and most importantly, the filter media. Extra sponge would be good for establishing a cycle.

One last question I completely forgot is what is the size of your tank? This might affect it...

Sorry this post is all over the place, I'm just typing as I remember stuff


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Lol, safestart worked like a charm for me but its possible that yours did not work. How much did you add to the tank?
> 
> You would've had to do some tests to be sure it cycled. I've heard good and bad things about safestart, and I've also found that it never works for fish less cycles when ammonia is dosed too high.
> 
> ...


I have a 2.5 minibow with filter and pre-filter sponge. There is a floss/sponge combo that i put in the filter instead of the floss carbon cartridge that came with the tank.

I added 1/2 bottle of TSS that is for 15 gallons, because i have 2 tanks, so, i put a half bottle in each. Or, 3 times the amount of the tank (enough for 7.5 gallons)

If i dose up to 4ppm ammonia, will this harm the decor (silk, plastic and fake rock)?
I just tested again this morning and the ammonia is still 1ppm.
Nitrates holding at 10-20ppm
I really don't know what to do now cause my fish is in a plain 1 gallon bowl to treat him for the rot. i was hoping to have his tank cycled by the time his rot is cleared up in another 5 days or so.

I had already cycled the tank back in april with TSS, but lost the cycle when i added a snail (didn't work..fish attacked) so i removed the snail the next day.

So 12 days ago i added more TSS, but he developed rot on day 7, so i took him out. I added omega one pellets to try to keep the ammonia at .25 at least..then i added the pure ammonia on day 10 to 1ppm....now on day 12 i still have 1ppm ammonia.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Hmm... That is very strange because adding a snail should not kill your cycle. It would spike it, yes, but not kill it...

To answer your question, 4ppm means parts per million. You have 4:1000000 ammonia to water ratio. The ammonia you are adding is probably only 10% ammonia, too. 4ppm sounds high but it's really not, and it won't harm anything in the tank besides livestock.

Also, the only other thing I can tell you is that most people don't cycle 2.5 gallons because they are so small. I'm not saying its impossible to establish a cycle, but it may not be a stable one. In tanks less than 5 gallons I still recommend 2 weekly water changes (50%). Otherwise live plants act as a great filter. I have them in my smallest tank along with a filter.

Edit: oh, also, if you're treating his fin rot with AQ salt and not meds, next time I would keep him in the tank. I treat my boys with AQ/Epsom salts in their tanks all the time (not if they have shrimp/snail tank mates, though, and only Epsom salt in tanks with live plants). Fin rot is probably due to not enough water changes..


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Hmm... That is very strange because adding a snail should not kill your cycle. It would spike it, yes, but not kill it...
> 
> To answer your question, 4ppm means parts per million. You have 4:1000000 ammonia to water ratio. The ammonia you are adding is probably only 10% ammonia, too. 4ppm sounds high but it's really not, and it won't harm anything in the tank besides livestock.
> 
> ...


I was always changing 2 times per week 50% each time.
But, when you add TSS you don't do water changes..so it had been 8 days or so without one.
He developed rot due to biting his tail off.
I took him out to treat because i didn't want to disrupt the TSS cycle with any other additives.

Like i said, now i don't know what to do....i'm thinking i will do multiple water changes in his tank to get the ammonia down to .25 add prime and stresscoat and just put him back in on Sunday...
That will be 7 days of AQ treatment.
I'm very worried about not being cycled when we go away for 8 days in July and there is no one to change water..that's why i really wanted to cycle.


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Hmmm... Definitely a water quality issue if he develops rot, even if he were biting his tail. I have some females that have had tail damage for months and one who ripped off most of her dorsal fin and has a huge lesion in her back from jumping and hitting the hood really hard, and none of them have fin rot.

Anyways, now I have a bit of a better understanding. I think your current plan is good. Do water changes in the tank until you get the ammonia back down and then put him back and continue doing two 50% weekly changes which should be sufficient.

For future reference, I would advise against adding any kind of tankmate (snails or shrimp) in anything smaller than a 5 gallon. I am just speculating here, but since the tank is so small and has less surface area (which is why cycling is harder in smaller tanks) adding the snail may have made it impossible for enough BB to grow to support both the snail and the Betta due to limited surface area, if that makes sense.

If the tank had cycled after adding SafeStart then I would try it again, without adding a snail this time. And just so you know, I know you aren't technically supposed to due water changes too soon after adding safestart but I did one like two days after and didn't mess up the cycle... If the ammonia hits .25 (or nitrites) you should do a water change regardless of what the bottle of safestart says. It didn't mess up my cycle.

Otherwise, I highly doubt your fish will die without a stable cycle if you leave for 8 days. I know it's not ideal and you'll probably feel bad about it, but I've seen fish go months in one gallon bowls with no water changes and not die. But I do totally understand why you want to cycle it before you leave. (I only recommend retrying safestart because if you are leaving in July, that may not be enough time to cycle using a fishless cycle and pure ammonia...)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Your cycle with happen inadvertently when you do water changes each week no matter what you do. so by the time July comes, it will be cycled.

I'd do a 100% change before you put him back in to just "refresh" things and continue on with your twice weekly changes.

He'll be fine for the 8 days that you're not there.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Your cycle with happen inadvertently when you do water changes each week no matter what you do. so by the time July comes, it will be cycled.
> 
> I'd do a 100% change before you put him back in to just "refresh" things and continue on with your twice weekly changes.
> 
> He'll be fine for the 8 days that you're not there.


Well, I don't think it will cycle on its own....the first time i was doing 2x per week 50% changes for over 9 weeks.....no cycle completed...so i tried TSS..it worked in 8 days..but i screwed it up with the snail....took out the snail and tried again 12 days ago....and it didn't work.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Hmmm... Definitely a water quality issue if he develops rot, even if he were biting his tail. I have some females that have had tail damage for months and one who ripped off most of her dorsal fin and has a huge lesion in her back from jumping and hitting the hood really hard, and none of them have fin rot.
> 
> Anyways, now I have a bit of a better understanding. I think your current plan is good. Do water changes in the tank until you get the ammonia back down and then put him back and continue doing two 50% weekly changes which should be sufficient.
> 
> ...


I did try again with TSS without the snail....the snail has been gone for over a month...and it looks like it didn't work.
Anyway, i think i give up...back to 2 changes per week ...and pray nothing happens in the 8 days we will be gone...and the 5 day long weekend coming up.
Thanks anyway


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He should be fine. I know it's not the best, but I've left my 3 gallon without a water change for 10 days before, it was during exams when I was super stressing out and kind of forgot about it....but I tested and everything was perfectly fine due to the cycle happening on it's own! So I wouldn't worry so much  Besides, think about it, they live in those god forsaken cups with 'generally' only 1 water change a week and that's a lot tinier ;-)


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## Gallium (May 14, 2013)

I just wanted to make note that none of the bacteria supplements/"live bacteria" sold in stores actually contain live cycle bacteria. Cycle bacteria is aerobic, and dies after about an hour of being sealed in the bottles. 

The bacteria supplements are suggested to be added on the first, seventh, and fourteenth days. This coincides with the cycle. What the supplements DO have are traces of ammonia, ammonium, nitrite, and nitrates, which can in theory speed up the cycle by providing nitrite for nitrafying bacteria without having to wait for nitrifying bacteria to convert the ammonia to nitrite. 

The reason the tank shows as immediately cycled is because these elements are introduced from the bottle, but the tank is not cycled. It will show all the elements on a test kit but the bacteria still needs an average of 3 days to appear and 1-2 weeks to establish in the filter to the required numbers for an established cycle. This is why the dosing times coincides with the length of a typical cycle. 

While the supplements are usually beneficial, they are not instant cycles and fish should not be introduced into the tank until 3 days at the earliest after the first dose to allow time for some bacteria to form. 

.25 ammonia is plenty of ammonia for the bacteria to be feeding off of. It doesn't appear to me that the cycle has crashed, just that your ammonia levels are higher than the current amount of bacteria you have can convert. Fish food takes a day or two before it starts to break down and give off ammonia. We bag half a small raw shrimp into a net and place it under the filter intake when we are doing a fishless cycle.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Many of the older cycle helpers like Cycle and others do not contain live bacteria, but spores from heterotrophic bacteria which do not introduce the nitrogen cycle.

The newer products, like Tetra Safestart, Dr Tim's One-and-Only, ATM Colony and others, contain live nitrosomonas and nitrospira (or nitrobacter), the bacteria that do convert ammonia and nitrite.

Dr Tim Hovenec has devised a method of keeping the bacteria in a dormant state for months at room temperature. As he explains on his site, they are not as fragile as many people think. I inadvertantly left my filter off for 6 days. When I turned it back on, I got only a very small brief ammonia spike.

They are, however, sensitive to heat and cold. If, in shipping, these products are allowed to freeze or get over 95* the bacteria will die. But that's beyond the manufacturers control. 

That plus limited (six month) shelf-life are the main reasons for inconsistent results using live bacteria products.

I always recommend Dr Tim's product which is fresh from the manufacturer and shipped direct in an insulated container.... like fish.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

*NEW update*

I decided to test this morning 1 last time.

The ammonia is now only .5 !! from 1ppm yesterday
Does this mean it's heading in the right direction?
I didn't do a water change, and i'm thinking i shouldn't

So what do i do now? Do i just wait some more and see if it processes more?


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## Gallium (May 14, 2013)

Hallyx said:


> Many of the older cycle helpers like Cycle and others do not contain live bacteria, but spores from heterotrophic bacteria which do not introduce the nitrogen cycle.
> 
> The newer products, like Tetra Safestart, Dr Tim's One-and-Only, ATM Colony and others, contain live nitrosomonas and nitrospira (or nitrobacter), the bacteria that do convert ammonia and nitrite.
> 
> ...


Interesting! Things have certainly changed then since the last time I discussed this. Is there a place I can read about the dormancy methods used and more about the products?


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

slug61 said:


> I decided to test this morning 1 last time.
> 
> The ammonia is now only .5 !! from 1ppm yesterday
> Does this mean it's heading in the right direction?
> ...


bump


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

anyone??


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'd just leave it for now and wait for Ayala to answer further since she seems to know what to do here


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

.5 from 1 is good! Have your nitrites or nitrates changed?

In a fish less cycle its usually suggested to dose 4ppm ammonia and bring it back up to 4 every time it drops. Test daily... If your ammonia drops from 4, add more to get it back up there. It will cycle faster and the cycle will be stronger.

You're watching for the ammonia to drop to 0, the nitrites to spike (I don't mean to .5 ppm, I mean massive spike) and then that to drop to 0. Once you have seen a nitrite spike and your ammonia drops from 4ppm to 0 in 24 hours with no nitrites and the presence of nitrates it is cycled.

The hardest part is getting the bacteria in the tank and that's already done  now you just have to provide food so more can colonize.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> .5 from 1 is good! Have your nitrites or nitrates changed?
> 
> In a fish less cycle its usually suggested to dose 4ppm ammonia and bring it back up to 4 every time it drops. Test daily... If your ammonia drops from 4, add more to get it back up there. It will cycle faster and the cycle will be stronger.
> 
> ...


So, do i wait until it goes down to 0? I don't have nitrites...nitrates are 10/20ppm

When it goes down to 0...what do i dose to? 1ppm or 4ppm


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Dose to 4ppm and keep it there. If it drops to 3ppm, get it back up to 4...


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Dose to 4ppm and keep it there. If it drops to 3ppm, get it back up to 4...


Do i dose now, or wait til it hits 0?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

No don't wait, dose now. Keep it at 4. Don't let it hit 0 unless the ammonia is going from 4 to 0 in 24 hours.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> No don't wait, dose now. Keep it at 4. Don't let it hit 0 unless the ammonia is going from 4 to 0 in 24 hours.


OK,
Tested water before re-dosing and it was .5 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 nitrates

Dosed to 4ppm ammonia

How often should i test, and at what point do i dose back to 4ppm?
How far do you let it drop before re-dosing? Do you re-dose as soon as it drops any amount at all?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Dose it back up to 4ppm any time it falls. If it falls to 3ppm or 0ppm you still want to dose back to 4 and keep it there.

I would test daily. It's not completely necessary but if you don't test daily, you might miss the nitrite spikes and if the ammonia suddenly falls to 0 and you don't know because you aren't testing daily, the bacteria will start to die. If you miss a day due to a busy life or something though, it's not a huge deal.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Dose it back up to 4ppm any time it falls. If it falls to 3ppm or 0ppm you still want to dose back to 4 and keep it there.
> 
> I would test daily. It's not completely necessary but if you don't test daily, you might miss the nitrite spikes and if the ammonia suddenly falls to 0 and you don't know because you aren't testing daily, the bacteria will start to die. If you miss a day due to a busy life or something though, it's not a huge deal.


Update:
2 days after dosing to 4ppm ammonia, it is now 2ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite
and 20 nitrates

Re-dosed up to 4ppm ammonia

Looks like it is on its way


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

UPDATE:

2 days after last dosing to 4ppm ammonia i now have:

2ppm ammonia, .25 nitrite, 20ppm nitrates

Yay,....it's definitely working.

Now, do i still dose to 4ppm, or leave it?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You continue dosing 4ppm ammonia until your nitrite spike is done and then when you dose 4ppm one day, and the next day you check it it's a 0. Then your cycle is done and you can stop dosing and put your Betta in after about a 75% water change :-D


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> You continue dosing 4ppm ammonia until your nitrite spike is done and then when you dose 4ppm one day, and the next day you check it it's a 0. Then your cycle is done and you can stop dosing and put your Betta in after about a 75% water change :-D


OK, dosed back to 4ppm ammonia.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

So, yesterday dosed to 4ppm ammonia.
TODAY i have: 1ppm ammonia, 2-5ppm nitrite, 40-80 nitrates.

It's really moving now.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

*Nitrate Stage*

After dosing to 4ppm ammonia yesterday........

Today: 0 ammonia, 5 nitrites, 80 nitrates


Do i still dose back to 4ppm ammonia??


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

Yes your nitrates need to be at 0 before its cycled, and the cycle will crash if the BB don't have ammonia for food. Don't add the fish until your ammonia AND nitrates fall to 0 in 24 hours.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> Yes your nitrates need to be at 0 before its cycled, and the cycle will crash if the BB don't have ammonia for food. Don't add the fish until your ammonia AND nitrates fall to 0 in 24 hours.


You mean nitrItes don't you??
So, how much do i dose back?

I've heard you only dose back to 2ppm after nitrites spike.
Or do i dose to 4ppm?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I would dose to 4... Idk. And yes, I meant nitrites.

If you only dose to 2 your bacteria will reduce to only half of what you have now. The cycle is stronger with 4ppm than 2 because they have more food, so if you were dosing to 2ppm and then upped it to 4, you would still see ammonia and nitrites... Does that make sense?

That's why people lose fish due to spikes when they add too many at one time to an already cycled tank. The BB are only as abundant as the bio-load of the fish in the tank.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

AyalaCookiejar said:


> I would dose to 4... Idk. And yes, I meant nitrites.
> 
> If you only dose to 2 your bacteria will reduce to only half of what you have now. The cycle is stronger with 4ppm than 2 because they have more food, so if you were dosing to 2ppm and then upped it to 4, you would still see ammonia and nitrites... Does that make sense?
> 
> That's why people lose fish due to spikes when they add too many at one time to an already cycled tank. The BB are only as abundant as the bio-load of the fish in the tank.


OK
Back at 4ppm


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

Yesterday dosed to 4ppm ammonia.

Today 0 ammonia, 5 nitrIte, 80-160 nitrAtes


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Getting close!


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

Today's results after dosing to 4ppm yesterday.

0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 80-160 nitrates

I AM DONE !!!!!!!

YAY!!!!!!!!

I will re-dose today to 4ppm...and if it's zero tomorrow i can do a large water change right?

What range should the nitrAtes be before i put my fish back?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup! And Nitrates should ideally be under 40ppm but under 20ppm is the best with of course 0 being even better. But under 20ppm is safe so aim for that and below :-D

Congratulations!


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks.

Also, i have a LOT of brown algae on a couple of pieces of decor.

Can i swish them in the old tank water tomorrow to get rid of it?
Can i also wipe the front of my tank cause it's there also?


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## AyalaCookiejar (Nov 20, 2012)

I always wipe it off the glass/tank/decor right before I siphon. I usually let the water settle a bit, first.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yup, you can either wipe them with your thumb or whatever in the water before a siphoning or you can take them out, swish them and rub them in old tank water you just took out. Either way will be fine so whatever seems to work for you. Don't worry you're not going to rub off your BB, it's super adhesive so they'll be fine ^_^


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

OK, Thanks all!!


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

Today's readings...after dosing to 4ppm yesterday

0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 80-160 nitrates

I did a 75% water change.....nitrates were still at 30ish

did another 50% change..i'm hoping to have it around 15??

I will add my fish in a couple of hours.


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## slug61 (Feb 26, 2013)

He's back in his cycled tank.

Seems very happy

Now i'm going to cycle Yoshii's tank.


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