# Rescued Guy With Velvet



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I have no experience treating velvet other than it's very hard to treat. But I figured he's got a 50/50 chance with me, 0% if I left him there at the store. So here goes. I bought Coppersafe but I haven't used it yet; waiting to go and buy a new set of teaspoons for measuring. Also, I'm a little concerned about how he swims, take a look at the last picture. Is that normal for a pretty severe infestation of velvet?

Tank: .75 gallon Petco Pet Keeper
Heated: Regretfully no, but I'm pretty sure the water will stay around 76 degrees. I don't know how to heat .75 gallons.
Water change: It will be every day, I only got him a half hour ago
Treatment: Purchased Coppersafe but if anyone has any better suggestions, I'm definitely listening.


----------



## LaLaLeyla (Aug 17, 2011)

Aww poor guy D:


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Oooow! He looks really bad Sakura! :< Did you check out Darkmoon's sticky on what to do? I've never had any experience with velvet. Poor guy! Are you sure its velvet?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sticky, ah forgot the sticky. *rushes off to sticky*


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, treat as you would ich. So that means aquarium salt? I wonder if I should try that before I do the Coppersafe. And I'm not sure where I can get potassium permaga whatever. He's just hanging out at the top. I wish I could heat it but I don't know how to heat something less than a gallon. The only heater I have for that small an amount is in Scooter's tank. :/ I have a 15w flat heater but it says for 5-10 gallons. And I'm flat broke, I had to ask my dad to pay at Petco. Stupid $700 vet bill sucked all the money right out of my account.

I might put him in a 2.5 gallon in the garage. I'll put his tank right next to the fry tank. Then I can heat it.


----------



## SVC (Aug 6, 2011)

Hey Sakura, your poor little guy certainly doesn't look great. :-( You're awesome for rescuing him!!

So, I know I am the last person to be imparting any knowledge here, but regarding the heating of a small tank, I have read here and there that some people are using reptile under tank heaters as they don't give direct heat to the water but enough to at least keep the temp stable. If your .75 gallon is acrylic, you might not be able to use it though. I have a small 5.5 gallon terrarium that I keep two land hermit crabs in and I purchased the smallest one for them. It actually says it is for hermit crabs. Reptile ones might be too strong. You might be able to use something like that. Although my terrarium is larger than your 0.75gallon, it doesn't contain water so it might heat differently. You could always ask at the pet store. 

Hope you're able to save the little guy, He's a really cute boy, although he looks sad.


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I've never had any experience with this either, but I would start off with a higher dose of aq salt since he looks so bad. As far as swimming being off, I don't know if that's just coping with how bad he's feeling and being clamped or what, but it doesn't look normal. He might just be coping as I said since if he got velvet, he obviously wasn't kept well at the store.

I know my Petsmart carries small heaters, not adjustable unfortunately, that heat up to 2.5 gallons. It's what I've got in the hospital tank with Frog and I've had no issues with under/over heating. Water stays at 76* in a 1/4 gal.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't know how bad velvet can get (looks wise), if you think he could improve with salt, then I say try it.. I don't think you should try KmNo3 even if you find it.. Its dangerous if not used right...


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, aquarium salt high dosage of about 3 tsp per gallon, right? And I shuffled things around so I can put a 2.5 gallon in the bathroom and heat it. Whew. He just hangs at the top and looks dead but when I look at him, he wiggles one of his mangled little ventrals at me. Hang in there guy, we'll do the best we can!

And thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate it.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Go slow with the salt.. Start with 1 tsp and add more every half hour or so.. I don't think he's in the kind of shape for instant salting. :<


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

cover the tank. i was told that the parasite(or whatever it is) thrives in light, but doesn't do too well in dark. x:


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Hang in there little guy! We are cheering you on!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I already put 3 tsps in but I'm drip acclimating him, will that work? And do you think he needs a filter? 

Luimeril, thanks, I'll be sure to cover the tank. The bathroom does get quite a bit of light during the day.

Thanks everyone for the well wishes, he needs them.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

That sounds good too .. I don't think you should put in a filter, it might upset him and the tank's pretty small. :/ Go velvety dude!!


----------



## Treena (Aug 18, 2011)

I wish you luck, poor little thing doesn't deserve to be so ill. I get so upset going to certain stores, I still remember this little fishy beside Sutea, he only have a tinge of water in his cup, not even 1/4 of what the others had. The water was dirty to, a murky yellow. He was overly small, but already looked so ill.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The people at the Petco are really nice but I just don't know about their ability to handle fish diseases so I chose to take him home (even though I'm out of space!). He is now in his salt treatment tank after being drip acclimated so here's hoping it works. I don't think he's been eating, either, there was a lot of food in his cup and he's so skinny.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

He looks like he's in so much pain, especially the ventrals! I wonder if he's off balance because he's missing them.. :<


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

The parasites are even on his eyeballs.  I think he might end up with permanent gill damage because his gills stick out so far.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I know! I saw them, its so horrifying! Can he see at all? Although that's the least of our worries right now.. :<


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm not sure he can see well, I have to tap the tank pretty hard to get him to respond to me. I haven't tried feeding him yet; there were four or five pellets dissolving in his cup so I don't think he's very hungry.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Ugh! Those pet store people may be nice to people but don't seem very nice to bettas X(


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i'm trying to remember what it was i was told when i thought Weiss had velvet.....


i remember the covering the tank...... and i think i was told to heat the tank. can you get a larger tank?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, definitely not nice to bettas. I put a beautiful mustard gas plakat up on the counter too. It had sadly passed. I had seen it a few times before, I didn't realize it wasn't doing so well. :/

Just checked on him, he's chillin' at the back and top of the tank. He's got a dishtowel over the tank.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

he's probably pooped. takes alot outta them to fight off things like velvet. his best chance, is in your hands. :3


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sure it's all in his gills because his breathing is really hard. He has to move his gills so much. Thanks, Luimeril, I'm going to try my best with him.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

D: i just remembered.....

i was told that if it reaches the gills, it's harder to recover from. ;A; gawd, you have all my good vibes heading your way! you cheered me on when Caroline was sick, so i'm cheering you on just as much with your guy!


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Oh no!  I'm hoping and praying he gets better Sakura! Poor guy doesn't deseve this.. :<


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I read in my fish disease book that the little buggers can colonize in the intestines, too.  If that happens, I'm supposed to treat with metrodinazole, but how do I know if they're in there or not?

Thanks, Luimeril, your good vibes are much appreciated.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I think thats a job for Dr Darkmoon! D:


----------



## Pataflafla (Jun 2, 2011)

I really hope he can kick this in the butt and make a full recovery. I can't imagine any of that feeling good at all. His fins look so painful.

As for how he may act, I would think even more lethargic, but that might be too hard to tell with how he is now. I would probably go ahead and treat for internal as well just to be on the safe side since he looks so weak.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope he eats! You can't do metro till he eats.  You'll need something to revv up his appetite..


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I have the metro-medicated pellets, I'll start him on those if he'll even eat. Going to check on him now.


----------



## LittleBettas (Jul 23, 2011)

Good luck!!!!!
And thank you for taking him Sakura!!!!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, he's not interested in eating garlic-soaked medicated pellets. At least not right now. I guess I won't worry too much about any internal issues right now. His tank is like a sauna, the plastic top is all steamed up.


----------



## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

Poor little guy this breaks my heart. You are such an angel to take care of him!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aww, thanks LittleBettas and Leeniex. I'm definitely trying my best. I just knew he'd die if I left him at the pet store. If he gets better, I'm going to have to find him a home or give him back to the pet store because I'm totally out of space. :/ I even have fish in the garage now.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

he tugs at so many heart strings right, i know many would line up to adopt him!


----------



## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

oh that poor boy! I hope he feels better soon


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Awwwh 

I never treated velvet before, all I know is the parasite or whatever does not like the dark.

all I could find is this



> *TREATMENT:* Velvet is a parasite. Because velvet is very VERY contagious, it is preferable to treat the whole tank when one fish is found to have it. BettaZing (included in our Betta First Aid Kit) contains two agents that are proven velvet killers, so it is EXTREMELY effective against this disease . So far it is the meanest velvet killer I have ever found . Use Bettazing at a 12 drop per gallon concentration (yes, it is OK to do so you have my blessings). Isolate any individual with velvet, treat the whole tank even if other fish look OK and remember WASH YOUR HANDS!!! Sanitize fish nets! Keep bowl or tank in a darker place, velvet will be easier to kill if it is not getting any light.


from here

http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, Tiki. He's in a nice warm tank that's covered to keep it dark and I'll check into this Bettazing stuff. Right now it's 3 tsps of aquarium salt. He won't eat though, not even garlic-soaked bloodworms. :/


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Hi Sakura, 
Looks like you have got a battle in your hand but everyone is cheering on and giving good advice. I don't have anything to add as I know next to nothing about velvet but am sending good vibes your way and pray that your little guy will pull through! I am sure he is grateful to have you as his caretaker no matter what happens. 
Keep up the good work!
Cheers


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, earthworm, that means a lot.  I'm definitely trying my best for the little guy.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

How does he look today Sakura?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He's worrying me because he hangs at the top, almost with his back sticking out of the water. :/ He won't eat anything and I have to poke him, literally poke him to get him to move and show me he's alive. On the bright side, the velvet spots look like they are fading so I will do a water change later this morning to get all the nasty parasites out of the water.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

He must be tired, poor guy! I really hope he makes it X( Those ventrals and those spots make me sad!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, it looks like his ventrals got completely eaten away by them. I don't know, can velvet eat their fins like that?


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't know, never heard of something like that. Maybe he has some fin rot?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Should I do a 100% change or just use a gravel vac and a partial change? I'm worried about shocking him even though I'll acclimate him.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I think you should do a 50% change for the first 2-3 days.. Then when he looks a bit better start with 100%.. What do you think?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That sounds like a good plan. He seems so fragile right now. Thanks, Fighter.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

No problem. I had done that for Zuko, it seemed to help him.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Changed the water, letting it heat up. I think what I'm going to do is keep him in his little cup and float it in the tank. Water changes will be easier that way. I'll just dump out the old water and take new warm water from the tank below.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sounds good but you'll have to do it 2-3 times a day wont you?


----------



## bahamut285 (Dec 10, 2010)

Borrow one of your thermometers and fill up a water bottle with slightly warmer than your target temperature water. Float it in the QT to let it slowly release it's warmth.

Treat with Coppersafe or AQ salt and literally put him in a closet or other dark room.

I hope he pulls through~


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hmm. Even with a dishtowel over him, he might be in too much light. Need thicker dishtowel.

Edit: Yeah, you're right, Fighter. So much for that idea. I'll put him in the tank and just do the usual changes that way. I don't want to stress him with water changes 3 times a day.


----------



## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

Aww Sakura, so sorry to see this poor little guy suffering. You are very kind to bring him home and try to nurse him back to health. I know how frustrating it can be when all you want to do is help, but nothing seems to help -_- Just stay positive. If it is meant to be, he will come around. If not, you know that you did everything in your power to help him. I hope he pulls through.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, Smellie.  That means a lot to me.


----------



## fishcurl (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm sorry I don't have anything useful to add. Just wanted to say that I've been following along and I'm sending get-well vibes to him. Pull through, buddy, pull through!


----------



## jman828 (Aug 15, 2011)

Nothing to add as it seems like your doing all you can! Great job saving & healing him as he would've had *NO *chance of surviving at the pet store. You're doing a great job! Keep us posted and best of luck!


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Aww, I too have nothing to add, but I'll see if I can somehow get dark moon to help....

I really hope he pulls through... here's to hope! *raises glass*


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

You succeeded Neil :]

Well, I don't have much more to add... I'm glad you used Aq.Salt instead of CopperSafe or Potassium Permanganate, he's far too weak for that... The only other thing you can do is add Kordon's Fish Protector or StressCoat. I think Fish Protector might be better in this case but StressCoat will work too. Otherwise, clean water, ample adjustment time, dark place and food. 

He may not be interested in food (partially) because of the darkness. You can leave the towel off for an hour or so then wiggle a frozen-thawed bloodworm around. He may go for it and 1 hour in the light won't do much... He looks very thin, poor thing.

If he improves and starts eating then you can use API General Cure. It isn't as effective as Metro pellets for internal infestations but I think it is more important that he gets real nutrient filled foods. General Cure will also finish off the external infection.

You are such an awesome person Sakura, he's so lucky. I hope he pulls through. He deserves a long life in a good home


----------



## Krys (Jul 28, 2009)

Looks more like he has velvet, fin rot, and ich. you can try some salt baths first and see if that helps. and for the swimming, that may something with his swim bladder.


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Good luck little guy. That's all I can add. Poor little thing.


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

Sakura8 Oh no! I am sorry your Betta looks so bad.
The pics look like my Betta!! Only I didn't know what it was. If you treat with salt can you use Bettafix at the same time? Thank you for posting the pictures. I have a small tank 1/4 gal hospital tank. It is floating in my 2 1/2 gal tank so I can keep the tank at the right temp.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the well wishes, he really needs them at this time. I'm quite worried because he just hangs at the top with his back almost hunched out of the water.  I'm assuming he stays at the surface so he can breathe easier because I think his gills are pretty infested still. 

DarkMoon, I'm so glad you're here to help me.  Thank you Neil for getting her. You two are great. I'll try the food thing again. I attempted to feed him bloodworms this morning but he got almost stressed by me waving them under his nose. I have Stress Coat but I'll switch the water conditioner to Prime and go with Fish Protector (thank goodness I have that too). Do you think he may have an internal infestation, DarkMoon? And the only places I can put him are the bathroom and the garage. Both places get plenty of light but I did put a much thicker handtowel over his tank, I hope that is dark enough. Should I put two over it even to make it darker? As of now, his tank is at 86* with 3 tsps of AQ salt and I'll be sure to acclimate him with each water change. I may set up a second tank that I can keep heated at all times so I can just switch him back and forth. 

dsgems, I wouldn't use Bettafix. It has an ingredient in it that can potentially harm your betta's labyrinth organ which is what he uses to breathe air from the surface from. Aquarium salt should hopefully be enough for your guy. How warm is your water?


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hey Sakura, have the spots reduce at all? Apart from the gills? Is he eating yet? :<

dsgems- The betta in your avatar looks so similar to one of mine.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think the spots have reduced. I actually even thought I saw some floating on the surface of the water earlier today, but of course it was probably my wishful imagination. His gills still look pretty bad and he's switched from laying with his back out of the water to on his side. I don't think he can swim very deep either. :/ And he wouldn't eat again. I tried to feed him bloodworms again a few hours ago and again he seemed to get almost upset and he tried to swim away from them. So puzzling. I'll try a different food in the morning.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Ugh, poor guy! And poor you! All of it must be so frustrating! Do you have low water level in the tank or something he can float on? I hope they have become less :/


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I haven't lowered the water but I put one of those betta hammocks in and a big-leafed plant. He seems to like to float right under the rim of the tank so I can barely see him. 

I just checked him with the flashlight and it looks like they're mostly gone except for several on his pectorals and on one of his gills. I wish I could get some food in him. I might try some baby brine shrimp, since I already have some thawed for the platy fry. Maybe if it's something he can easily suck up, he'll eat.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I hop it works! *fingers crossed* Good to know at least most of them have dropped off..


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

poor guy. I wonder if he also has something else wrong besides velvet??


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope not! :s


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

it's frustrating. he's not really hungry because he's busy fighting off the velvet, but he needs to eat so he can fight off the velvet! Dx


----------



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

How long can a fish live with velvet? Just wondering because my HM has gold coloring around his gills and those little flipper fins they swim with but he has been that way for at least 5 months. Its very obvious its there, I dont need a flashlight. He acts normal other then tail bitting. he's in and out of salt treatments cause of the tail bitting.


----------



## BetterBetta (Jun 13, 2011)

Tikibirds, is it his natural coloring? I'd think the velvet would spread within that time


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

velvet isn't shiny gold, it's more like gold-yellow dust. many bettas these days have goldish coloring around their heads and pec fins. x: dunno why, they just do.


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

I had wondered about that too. Mine has golden dust on their bellies and at the junctions of their pectoral and ventral fins. I did some research and looked at old photos, I have concluded that's just their natural coloring. Velvet would have effected the entire well being of the fish, so I wouldn't worried about that, Tikibirds if yours is acting normal otherwise


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

There's actually possibly a reason some bettas have goldish coloring (and why others may have greenish or reddish coloring).

"Many bettas with the pale bodies such as yours develop gold upon their heads. It's actually part of the waste process. The betta deposits these wastes in the skin, eyes, and fins. They are called guanines and are a nontoxic compound of the ammonia. These can be deposited in the skin as crystalline arrays that cause iridescence such as the gold sheen you see on the top of your betta. When these deposits are in the skin, they are then called iridocytes. The bettas we have today have been selectively bred to have lots of iridocytes, often on the head and back. (info from The Betta Handbook, Robert Goldstein, pg 10)."

Like I told the people I originally posted that for, I'm 90% sure I'm interpreting the information from that book right but not completely sure - there's a whole lot of scientific info in that book I barely understood. I could be completely wrong but it seems to me that's the reason some bettas do have a sheen to them. Also, I think dragon scale bettas are created when the iridocytes build up really thick on the body through selective breeding. 

Oh, if I'm wrong about the info, someone definitely tell me.


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Great info, Sakura, thanks for sharing! I will be googling iridocytes all night now


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Earthworm, if you find out more that's contrary to what I interpreted, definitely let me know.  I'm not very good at science and that book was pretty darn scientific. Xanthic, melanic, genetics . . . :shock: 

Edit: oh, and I guess I should be clear that I didn't ever directly quote the book, that was all interpretation. Haha, I feel like I'm writing a term paper.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sorry for the double post, but this morning the little guy . . .


ATE 3 BLOODWORMS! Hurray! I noticed that after about 10 minutes in the light, he seemed to start searching for the garlic smell of the soaked bloodworms so I took him out and put him in his cup. I was about call it quits after several minutes when suddenly, slurrrp! So I gave him two more and he slurrped those up too once he found them. 

I will feed him again in about 4 hours. Right now, the replacement tank is heating up so I can just switch him into it and clean out the old one for the next change. 

By the way, how long does he have to stay in the dark?


----------



## smellsfishie (Apr 14, 2011)

awesome news!!! glad he slurped up the worms!! yaaaay!!!


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Woot!! He ate some. Now he'll feel better, I hope! *sends healing vibes*


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Ok. From what I have read and if understand correctly, the guanines are actually photonic crystals produced in the skin beneath the scales which give the shine or iridescence of the scales. The fish actually spends energy to manipulate the growth of these guanine crystals to make them a certain way to be refractive. The guanine crystals/bodies are collectively known as iridocytes and there are different type of iridocytes. So depending on the thickness and orientation of the guanine crystals as well as where and how these iridocytes are placed next to the many "....phores", different metallic luster colors or lack thereof on the fish skin can be observed from the refraction 

That's all I have got so far 

On a different note:
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!! I hope he keeps up and eats lots more!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Wow, thanks Earthworm. And you made it so even I could understand what you were talking about, haha.

I just checked on the little guy, though, and his swim bladder is out of control. He was nose first on his plant and when I move it, he spun around like a crashing plane. :/ He's floating on his side in an inch of water in his cup. Cup is floating in his tank so he stays warm. I hope I didn't feed him too much.  Maybe he's so skinny the food actually threw him off balance?


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

That sounds like what I would do after devouring lots of food....the "eater remorse posture" lol j/k

I think his stomach is trying to get used to having something in it while his system is trying to digest as it is probably foreign and difficult for him at this point. Hopefully he will be more lively once he gets the energy from it.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I really hope you're right, earthworm. I was so happy he ate. Now he looks so sad again. He's so skinny he made the bloodworms look fat so hopefully that's all that's wrong is digesting.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

since he went so long without eating, his body's not used to having food in it. so, imo, the swim issues aren't that bad. give him time. :3 since he's started eating, it means he's feeling better!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks Luimeril, I feel better. He really had me super worried. I'll stop checking on him every five minutes (by that I mean poking him to make sure he's alive >.>) and let the poor guy rest. Thanks.


----------



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm so glad he's eating!! Maybe a but too much lol but he'll need everything he can get... He should recover his swimming abilities as be digests. I guess you should wait until he can right himself before feeding him again. Maybe 1-2 worms 2-3 times per day if he can handle it. The fact that he ate at all is a very good sign that he must be feeling a bit better. I don't think he needs more darkness but keep him in the dark until the end of treatment.

I don't know about an internal infection... It is very possible but I don't have any experience with it since I've never had one with such a severe infection. I don't think he should or will eat metro pellets. He needs to gain some weight back. Continue soaking his worms in garlic for now. If anything I would use General Cure but wait on that. Continue with salt, darkness, clean warm water, Fish Protector and love for 14 days. At the end of 14 days if he still has inflamed gills or just isn't improving then give him 5-7days with just clean water (80-82*F), and fish protector before trying General Cure. He'll need a break between medications.
Keep it up you two!

You guys are thinking too much! The iridocytes are simply responsible for make all the iridescent colors we see: blue, green and gold. There are different types responsible for each color. Many bettas have a natural gold sheen due to these iridocytes. They are considered to be the 4th layer that determines a betta's color (the other 3 being black, red and yellow) and are important for selective breeding


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

*smacks head* stop thinking.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

DarkMoon, thanks for posting.  Yeah, I definitely think I fed him too much. I was so excited he ate, I just kept dropping in worms (3 in all) to make sure I wasn't dreaming. 1-2 small worms from now on. 

Thanks for the tips on the darkness. I lowered the water level in the tank so his cup floats lower; that way I was able to cover it up again. Silly me tried to drape the towel over it while the cup was above the tank rim and the towel got soaked. >.< Not my day in the brain department, haha.

Oh, and thanks for clarifying on the iridocytes. It's fascinating, I never knew bettas got rid of ammonia waste with guanines. Fish are amazing little creatures. 

Okay, I feel a little better now. Thanks everyone, thank you DarkMoon.


----------



## ALS1104 (Aug 11, 2011)

aww poor guy. i wish i could give input to help... i just hope you can save him!


----------



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Hey I'm super late to this party but you're awesome Sakura, glad he's improving! =]


----------



## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm so happy to hear that he's hanging in there!! I was thinking about him today in class.


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey Sakura, Glad your Betta is eating! My actually looks better, but has not eaten. He seems interested, but did not eat. How do you get garlic on blood worms? Are you actually smashing a garlic clove and putting a blood worn in it? I only have freeze dried worms. Is that OK? My water temp is 79. I did put him in darkness. I don't understand what he has. He has whitish strands around his head and body, like the pic you posted. his fins were exactly like yours. This morning they were open although the bottom front fins are still not right. Is this a fungus? Velvet or Ick? I did use salt and I did use some Bettafix. The pet store told me it is what they use when their Bettas get sick. I had no idea it could hurt them. I will stick with the salt treatment. Thanks. How do I make his tank safe again. All his plants, gravel? I don't want him to get sick again. When I do a water change do I just add 1 tsp. per gal to the new water or is it suppose to accumilate? Gosh, how did you all learn so much?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi everyone, thank you for your thoughts for the little guy. Here's the update: 

His swim bladder did adjust after he digested so he no longer spins out of control, although he still lays on his side. I fed him two very small pieces of bloodworm, which he eagerly gobbled up, and I left him in his cup in case his swim bladder goes all wonky again. He also had a water change. I don't see any velvet left, at least none that is visible so that's good. He's a little fighter for sure and I'm very proud of him. 

dsgems, take a garlic clove and crush it, then add a bit of the garlic to some tank water. Soak the bloodworms in that for a while. Hopefully it will help perk your guy up too. You can soak your freeze-dried bloodworms too but they may not hold up as well as frozen ones would. 

Do you think you could PM me a picture of your guy, or start a thread? (you CAN post it here if you want, I don't mind, but you may get more help if you start your own thread) I'm not sure what to think of the whitish strands around his head but that doesn't sound like ich or velvet to me. A pic would help a lot. As for making his tank safe, you can rinse everything with really hot water and vinegar and then let it all dry in the sun for a few hours. 

Oh, and for the water changes, if he's in a 1 gallon, you probably should take out all the water. The best way to do water changes for a small tank is to get a 1 gallon jug and mix dechlorinated water with 1 tsp of salt. Let the salt dissolve. When you need to do your water change, take your guy out and empty his QT. Then you can just pour the salt water from the jug in and put your guy back in. Just make sure the temperature is really close; you may need to warm the water a bit before adding your guy. 

 I learned a lot on this forum from many people and especially DarkMoon. And I do a lot of reading. I'm no expert, that's why I post for help.


----------



## SVC (Aug 6, 2011)

So awesome to hear your little guy is feeling better! Hurray for eating, and for wanting to eat more. I'm so glad the velvet spots seem to have disappeared. Hopefully he will make a full recovery in no time!

Praying tomorrow will be an even better day for him!


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Yay! He is a little fighter isn't he? Good for him! *sends more healing vibes*


----------



## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

GreenTea said:


> Hey I'm super late to this party but you're awesome Sakura, glad he's improving! =]


im with GT on this coming late to the party thing but glad to hear hes doing better and under your care im sure he will b ok

*sending hugs and love to him*


----------



## fishcurl (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm so glad he ate finally! How is he doing today?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, the little guy is still with us.  He's still eating and it looks like the velvet parasites are gone so that's a good sign. He still floats on his side most of the time but he's showing more energy and he no longer looks quite so . . . dead when I check on him - I can actually see his gills moving without having to get a magnifying glass. He's gotten his breakfast and his daily water change already so he's set for a long day of quiet recuperation under his towel. 

Thank you all again for your continued thoughts for the little guy.  I couldn't do this without your support cheering me on. You guys are wonderful.

By the way, I'm thinking of calling him Gershwin, what do you think? Gershwin because he's blue and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. I know I said before that I was going to have to rehome him if he got better but now I think I'll just get rid of some furniture so I can fit an extra tank in for him.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I like Gershwin, hence I like the name Gershwin


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey Sakura, I love the name Gershwin! I am happy you plan to keep him. My betta is NOT EATING. He seems interested, even took a pellet only to spit it out after a few seconds. I tried the garlic with the freeze dried bloodworms. NOTHING! He looks better and is swimming around. I will keep trying. Oh, I think it is a fungus. Betta handbook says if it is white and looks like Velvet it is fungus. I hope it means he will live If I can get him to eat! What can get him to tempt him that will be healthy?


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

You can also try calling Johann if you're going for the blue theme.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

dsgems said:


> Hey Sakura, I love the name Gershwin! I am happy you plan to keep him. My betta is NOT EATING. He seems interested, even took a pellet only to spit it out after a few seconds. I tried the garlic with the freeze dried bloodworms. NOTHING! He looks better and is swimming around. I will keep trying. Oh, I think it is a fungus. Betta handbook says if it is white and looks like Velvet it is fungus. I hope it means he will live If I can get him to eat! What can get him to tempt him that will be healthy?


How long as your betta gone without food? Silly boy. If the garlic didn't work with bloodworms, you could try crushing his pellets into smaller bits and soaking those in the garlic juice. You may have to feed them with tweezers, though. Other options include live mosquito larvae or even a very tiny chopped up bit of shrimp (like shrimp we eat). If it's a fungus, you can try to treat him with Jungle Labs Fungus Cure. I hope he starts eating soon, poor guy. 

Gershwin it is then.  He's one of my favorite composers and I've actually been wanting a blue betta I could name Gershwin. When I bought my first betta it was between a blue marble and Sherman. I was leaning toward the blue guy so I could name him Gershwin but Sherman started flaring like crazy so I went with him. End of story, haha.


----------



## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

I'm so happy he's still doing well!:-D


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

maybe the pellets are too big for him, dsgems. have you tried crushing them? they'll spit it out, if a pellet's too big(at least... mine do).


----------



## Leeniex (Aug 14, 2011)

Luimeril said:


> maybe the pellets are too big for him, dsgems. have you tried crushing them? they'll spit it out, if a pellet's too big(at least... mine do).


I have to crush mine before he will eat them.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i had a female last year that was so small, she could only eat New Life Spectrum Grow pellets(which are about the size of sand grains to me). any other pellet, i'd have to crush up.


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for the ideas! We need all the help we can get. I have not *seen *him eat for for 5 days. His fins are open so he looks way better. I will try crushing his regular pellets in with the garlic. Do all bettas like garlic? I will try the shrimp. Cooked or raw? I am guessing raw, so please let me know what you think


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

How about little insects? gnats? mosquitos? I think he just ate a gnat!!


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

*Saving Kessler*



Luimeril said:


> maybe the pellets are too big for him, dsgems. have you tried crushing them? they'll spit it out, if a pellet's too big(at least... mine do).


Thank you Luimeril!!:-D He actually ate a few bits!!! Thank you thank all!!


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

dsgems, glad your fish is eating!

But try not to double, or triple post. There is an "Edit" button at the bottom right of each post, available for 20 minutes after the post.  thanks


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

*Thanks I am still learning*



Neil D said:


> dsgems, glad your fish is eating!
> 
> But try not to double, or triple post. There is an "Edit" button at the bottom right of each post, available for 20 minutes after the post.  thanks


Thanks for telling me Neil. I will remember that! I was soo happy. I didn't think about what I was doing. I have a lot to learn. So forgive me for my faux pas!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Don't worry about dsgems. I, uh, am often prone to double and triple posting myself.

I just wanted to let you all know that when I went to give Gershwin his dinner tonight I found him . . .


Upright! He's no longer floating on his side! Hurray! I'm so happy for the little guy.  I know he's not out of the danger zone yet but he's making more progress than I ever would have dreamed when I brought him home from the pet store. What a little fighter he is. 

On a side note, this is interesting. It looks like his tail and anal fin are fused together partway. Sorry for the bad pic.







What do you think, is this normal?


----------



## Abby (Jan 13, 2011)

well ive not see that before O.O maybe hes just wanting uniqueness lol


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Go GershWIN! 
Congrats for a job well done, Sakura! 
I hope he will continue to heal and strengthen. 

Oops....a little programming gone array there! I see the fused part you circled. I have seen the fusing of fins, but never of two different tails. I think during his sickness, the programming just gone haywired resulted in this. I hope it will stop fusing and not continue. May be ask OFL or DM if surgical intervention is necessary if this continues? :-(


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hey Sakura! He doesn't look great but he looks like he's on his way there  
I think the tail fusing must be genetic :/


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Abby, haha! I love that, wanting uniqueness. You could be right, something to make him stand out from all the other blue bettas.  Well, that tail fusing thing is plenty unique.

Earthworm, it's so weird, the fusing thing. In a way, it reminds me of when your guy decided to heal his torn tail by fusing it together. Do you guys think really high ammonia could actually fuse those two fins together? Or do you think it's genetic? I'll definitely see what DarkMoon or OFL have to say, especially if it continues to fuse.

Fighter, I know, doesn't he still look so pitiful? His poor ventrals look like strings attached to him and his gills seem too big for the rest of him. He gets a funny hump in his back when he tries to swim but I'm hoping that will go away as he gets his strength back. Tonight when I put him in his cup for feeding, he swam around and around and around. He's definitely getting more energy.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Yay to energy! 
I see the hump, I hope its something that will go away. He does look pitiful but you're working on it and a fine job you're doing too!  He'll be handsome in no time! Even Mao's gills looked too big for him when I got him, mostly because 1/3rd of him was his head, but since he's bulking up, not fast but he is.. It looks more proportionate.. I'm sure Gershwin's will too.  The ventrals are what really make him look sad lol! But maybe that's genetic as well? I don't know. :/ Zuko had exceptionally tiny ventrals..


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Oh...I found this while researching about Gershwin fused fin issue:

"When a betta (male or female) is older and in his or her "sunset years", so to speak you'll notice the Caudal and anal fins beginning to fuse together."

Something new I learned today! So that may be one of many possibilities? There is also a species called Fuse Fin Betta where all three fins would fuse together to become one continuous single fin, which I don't think Gershwin is aiming for 

Haha....ya, like my silly guy who fused his fin back together. Did I tell you since the two sides of the fins have fused, he is also growing a ponytail from the broken rays part? lol


----------



## SVC (Aug 6, 2011)

Hey Sakura, looks like things are getting better day by day for Gershwin! Love the name btw - it really suits him. Love Gershwin too! Reminds me of my music class back in high school. :-D

That is so interesting about the tails being fused. Very informative too that they can actually do this in their elder days. On a similar note, I was very impressed with the way PTG fused the split that was halfway up his caudal fin in a matter of a week! I think he had torn it while hiding under the clam shell aerator but it has fused seamlessly now and he's even got lots of new fin growth on the edges. Oh, and quite the big bubble nest in his little qt tank today. I feel really bad to change the water out and ruin it! I almost wish I knew a thing or two about breeding and could hook him up with a cute girl. lol 

On the subject of breeding, I wonder if you could take a look at a thread in the breeding forum or suggest to someone who might know some stuff on that topic. I got a PM from a new member today asking for help and of course I am clueless on the subject so I posted their question in that topic (thread under my name called Breeding Question: Help For A New Member Please) and so far there haven't been any replies. I know you've got your hands full but it would be great if you could have a glance. I have received awesome help here and would love to pay it forward any way I can!:-D

Oh, you mentioned the hump in Gershwin's back. Do you think it could be posture? I noticed when PTG wasn't feeling great he was kind of slumped over sometimes where his head was a lot lower than his spine but he is over that now so I think he was just being slouchy because he wasn't feeling his best. Hopefully that will go away once he is fully better. Again, you are just awesome for how you have pulled him through certain death so far!!!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi SVC! Yup, I'm glad Gershwin is making progress too. Every day is really a surprise: he's eating! He's no longer flat on his side! He's swimming a bit! He's an awesome little guy.  I feel like I don't deserve such a great little fish who is trying so hard. He's really the one doing all the work to make himself better.  I just provide the water and the bloodworms.

I checked out your thread but sadly, I'm not much of an expert on breeding. Of the many betta things I've researched, breeding isn't one of them because then I'd be so tempted to start in on it and I have no room. My mom would kill me. :shock: But I noticed that two people who did post are noted breeders so the person who PMed you will get some good advice. I'll keep an eye on the thread too. 

I'm thinking you are right about the hump in Gershwin's back being posture. I hope when he regains full control of his swim bladder that he no longer slumps so much. It just kind of reminds me of the hump my little handicap betta has, but fortunately the behavior is totally different. 

Earthworm, that's really interesting about the fusing fins. I had no idea older bettas would do that. :shock: I wouldn't be surprised if Gershwin was on the older side, it might explain why he got velvet and the other bettas whose cups were just as dirty didn't. And you've got post a pic of your betta's "ponytail," it sounds so hilariously cute.


----------



## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i once saw a betta bred by an aquabid seller, who only had two fins because two of them were fused. your boy could just be the result of odd breeding. x:


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

I think the same person PMed me SVC, I told them to PM OFl and start a thread.. :/


----------



## Comet1993 (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm glad your betta is doing better. =) It's so nice of you to rescue and care for him! You both have my best wishes. He's going to be so beautiful! =]


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you, Comet.  He's certainly been a learning experience.


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

Glad to hear of his progress!!


----------



## dsgems (Jul 14, 2011)

*Similar Betta!*



fightergirl2710 said:


> Hey Sakura, have the spots reduce at all? Apart from the gills? Is he eating yet? :<
> 
> dsgem1s- The betta in your avatar looks so similar to one of mine.


Hi fightergirl, My avatar is a pic of my only betta Kessler. A coulpe of days ago I thought he was dying. Thanks to all of Sakura's help and encouragement even while she was working so hard on healing her Gershwin, My Kessler is on the mend, too. I would love to see a pic of your Betta. :-D I appreciate everyones help, thank you


----------



## SVC (Aug 6, 2011)

Interesting fightergirl, I just went to the thread and saw that he has pm'd OFL too. Maybe because of a time difference he/she hasn't been on again since pm'ing people this morning. Hopefully mharco will find his/her way to the right thread eventually.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

dsgems, you're welcome, I'm always happy to help. I'm glad Kessler's on the mend for you, he's a handsome fellow. 

Quick update: Gershwin is definitely swimming around more but he hasn't eaten much today. I left some bloodworms and a few micropellets in his tank so I'll check on him later. C'mon, Gershwin, you need to keep your strength up.


----------



## earthworm88 (Jul 8, 2011)

Thanks for the update, Sakura. I hope he will continue to strengthen and fully recover.

Ok. I may post my guy's photos later in Chat or something...I am curious to see if it can become longer than his actual fin (I doubt it as it only started to grow 2 weeks after the fusing).

*cheering Gershwin on*


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, poor Gershwin seems to have taken a step back for now. He hasn't eaten anything for a day and he's struggling to stay upright again, although that's clearly what he wants to do, is be upright. Can 3 tsps of aquarium salt inhibit his ability to see/smell food? 

Should I start the General Cure in the next day or so? And if I do, shall I continue with the 3 tsps of salt as well?


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear it Sakura.. I don't know anything about general cure but I'm cheering for the little guy.. Have you checked the temps? Changed the water?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Daily 100% water changes. I fill up a second tank, let the salt dissolve and the temp get up, then just move him on over. Today I'm floating him in his cup as a precaution. Temp is holding steady at 86. I can turn it down but I thought it was supposed to be high for velvet treatment. :/ Although now I think velvet is the least of his concerns, poor baby.

Only thing I can think of that I did different was add Kordon Fish Protector to his water the last two changes. Don't know if that affected him somehow or not. I left it out this time.


----------



## fightergirl2710 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hopefully that will work.


----------



## SVC (Aug 6, 2011)

Awww, sorry Gershwin had a setback today, Sakura. Maybe leaving the fish protector out will help. Also, are you sure the temp in both your tanks is stable? I just read that a rapid increase or decrease in temp can cause swim bladder too.

Speaking of setbacks, I'm not sure if I'm having one too. I'll write about it over on my thread, I don't want to hijack your thread. lol

I'll be thinking of Gershwin and hoping he goes back to recovering!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*Please Follow the Link*

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=801379#post801379


----------



## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I'm sorry sakura.


----------

