# Fish tuberculosis ?



## JennaLee (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm fairly certain that my fish have been infected by fish Tuberculosis. 
I had a female betta sorority with 7 bettas (it's a ten gallon). It is a well established tank that has been running for 8 months and has held this sorority for 4 months. There was absolutely NO aggression in this tank and hasn't been since a few days after the females were introduced four months ago. I have an AquaClear 20 filter and I change the filter cartridge things once a month as well as cleaning the filter itself. I siphon the gravel once a week, removing about 25% of the water each time and replacing it with clean & treated water. I also remove the ornaments for cleaning once a month. I've had the water parameters checked before and they were 'perfect' according to the people at petsmart. I also have a heater that keeps the tank at 78 degrees at all times. 

About a week ago I bought a new female betta for the sorority from Big Al's. It was just such a pretty light blue fish - I couldn't resist! I made two very serious mistakes that I didn't recognize at the time as being detrimental to the health of my tank. Firstly, there were 3 dead bettas in the tank at big al's. For some reason I didn't take it as a warning sign that their bettas may not be healthy. Secondly, I only observed the new fish for a day before adding her to the tank. Trust me, I will not be making those mistakes again. 

Belle (the new fish) did fine in the tank for the first few days, she was shy and hid a lot, but I didn't notice any signs of disease. I found her dead under the castle ornament in the tank on Tuesday. I couldn't figure out how she died as she looked completely normal. The only sign that she was unwell was that she refused food the day before she died. 

Shortly after this I began to notice that something wasn't right with another of my female's, Thorn. Her fins were droopy and clamped and she was hiding a lot like belle was. She was also refusing food. I wasn't sure what was wrong as I knew it wasn't finrot or fungus. Yesterday, I woke up to 3 dead bettas. (Thorn, Keltie & Sophie). They literally dropped dead overnight. I immediately knew that something wasn't right. I quarantined the 3 bettas I had left with new, uncontaminated water and added a few drops of melafix to each of their containers. Iris and Storme were already showing signs of this odd disease (inflamed gills, sluggish, random missing scales, loss of colour, refusing food, greyish/white spots on body that weren't present the day before, etc.,) and Lyra was the only one who seemed normal. Iris passed away yesterday afternoon. Storme is still alive, but barely, and is quickly deteriorating. Lyra still seems to be as healthy as ever. I researched the symptoms yesterday and the only viable diagnosis I could see was Fish TB. I'm absolutely terrified now, because if it is Fish TB then I'll have to buy special stuff to disinfect EVERYTHING if I ever want to keep fish again. Is there anything I can do to save Storme and to make sure that Lyra stays free of the disease? Do you think it's Fish TB that is killing my bettas? I'm really sad because 5/7 of my female bettas have died in the span of a few days. 

I will try to post pics later once I find my camera.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Fish TB is really rare. Do your fish have lesions on them?

Stress is a killer, and aggression isn't always manifested. An actual attack is the last stage of aggression, not the first. Keeping fish in high stress environments is bad for their health; their immune systems (and ours too) don't function as well under stress. Honestly, it might have simply been a case of the straw that broke the camels back - adding one too many fish. It's tough, once you get near completion of stocking a tank. Everything's working out great...do you risk upsetting the balance....


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Actually, this sounds more like Columnaris, a gram-negative bacterial infection, to me.

_Mycobacterium marinum_, the organism which causes "Fish TB," is a slow-growing bacteria. It is a wasting disease, meaning that fish don't die within just a few days. It causes lesions on the body, but also concentrates significantly within in the internal organs, which takes time to occur.

On the other hand, _Flavobacterium columnare_, the bacteria that causes Columnaris is a fast-moving bacterial infection. It causes gray or white spots on the body, and can kill within days. Often, the spots have a fuzzy or cottony appearance. 

Columnaris is common in aquariums, and often infects fish that have been subjected to stress (such as being in a plastic cup at a petstore).

I'm sorry for your losses. To control the infection, I would:

*1) Lower the water temperature to about 76F.*
This is at the lower end of the comfort range for Bettas. And the cooler water will slow down the bacterial growth rate.

*2) Use a gram-negative antibiotic.*
My preference for Columnaris are Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone. Any of these 3 brands will work:
-- API Furan 2 (available at places like Petsmart)
-- Hikari Bifuran (often available at petstores)
-- Jungle Fungus Clear (often available at Walmart. Must be "Fungus Clear.")

(If your tank is cycled, you'll want to remove the activated carbon or filter cartridge from the filter before using the antibiotic, as described on the package instructions. The medications will kill beneficial bacteria, as well as harmful types.)


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Antibiotics will not necessarily kill your cycle. I've personally not found that to be the case. Lots of factors involved.

BUT, it would be smart to safeguard against such a thing. I have mature filter media all around me so if that were to happen i can just throw some in there to keep the cycle going. If you don't have that luxury, I would suggest removing some of your filter media and keeping it in a container of unmedicated tank water, that way if you lose it you can get things back up and running again. Better to deal with a minicycle than having to do the whole thing again.


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

So sorry to hear about your fish  You're already getting good advice here about disease treatment so I won't repeat it.

But I did notice that you claim to replace the filter cartridge once a month. Is that true? There's no need to do so if you are. You just rinse the filter media in your removed tank water and put it back in. You don't need to replace the sponges/foam until they're so old that they fall apart. If you're replacing them, you're probably removing the majority of your beneficial bacteria since most of it is housed in the filter.

Do you regularly test your water for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, & PH? With that many fish in a 10 gallon tank combined with tossing out the filter sponges monthly might be causing ammonia and nitrites to be building up in the tank on a regular basis. It might not be what is killing your fish but the conditions would be pretty poor for them to sustain a healthy immune system if they do get exposed to a nasty disease.

I have an AQ20 and it has the basket for mutliple layers of filter medium. Typically what comes with it is the sponge, charcoal, & bio-media if I remember correctly (been a few years since I've used it). If you have the charcoal bag, remove it while you are treating the tank with meds. and replace it with a new one when you're done treating to remove the trace meds left in your tank. 

I hope you can save your remaining fish. Good luck.


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## JennaLee (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions guys. 

I am so glad that it may not be Fish TB after all. The only reason why I ruled out columnaris was because 3/6 affected fish showed NO white or gray spots, or cottony like things. In fact, the only symptoms were loss of colour, sluggishness and lack of appetite. And this was shown only a day before death of each of those 3 fish occurred. It's just so strange how quickly they passed & with so little warning. 

Storme is still hanging in there, and although she isn't showing any signs of improvement, she isn't getting any worse either. Yesterday she developed a few cottony strands on her dorsal fins, and she is just generally colorless, she also hasn't eaten a thing since Friday. She refused her normal pellets & flakes, so I tried her two favourite treats: bloodworms & de-shelled microwaved peas .... she wouldn't even touch em! 

I gave her a 15 minute salt bath this afternoon (I read it was supposed to help with columnaris) & began administering an antibiotic (Kanaplex). If you have any advice on what else I can do to help her out please let me know  

Lyra (the other remaining female betta) is still 100% healthy, so at least 1/7 survived this awful killer of a disease unscathed.

p.s Romad - I rinse the sponge monthly and change it completely bimonthly, that's what it said to do on the filter instructions. Maybe once I clean the tank thoroughly and get it up and running again, I will try what you suggested.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Kanaplex is an excellent broad spectrum antibiotic. 

Keep us updated.....


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## Taboo (Jun 28, 2013)

Perhaps, if not _M. marinum, _consider _M. triplex_? I am not experienced in the matter, and I don't want to scaremonger! But that strain of myco does seem to be able to cause very sudden deaths and can wipe out entire fishrooms in a very short amount of time. 

Take a look at this link. But unfortunately, our finned friends are very hard to diagnose when a mystery disease strikes! I have heard good things of Kanaplex though; keep it up


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Taboo - When I clicked that link, it took me to an Aquabid page?

I did find mention of M. triplex on this factsheet though. 

The article also says this: 

_"Three isolates of M. marinum were tested.... Strains of M. chelonae, M. abscessus, and M. peregrinum... also were tested. Of these isolates, only the two strains of M. marinum taken from active outbreaks of mycobacteriosis in zebrafish were considered highly pathogenic. These two strains of M. marinum caused 90 to 100 percent mortality of injected zebrafish within 21 days, with the first mortalities observed about day 7."_
Source: https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/231/

So this was a much faster progression than I'd read about in some other articles.


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## JennaLee (Aug 2, 2013)

Update - 

Storme is still alive. She's still refusing food & doesn't look much better or worse than she did yesterday. I'm hoping she'll recover fully , but so far I've not seen much improvement. If you have any suggestions of how I can help her out (besides the antibiotics which I'm already administering), please let me know. 

I am tackling the task of disinfecting the tank today. I am currently using a combination of white vinegar & hydrogen peroxide ... I just really hate bleach, so I came up with an alternative. Any tips on disinfecting the tank (especially the filter) would be super helpful!

Thanks for the support & help ... I really appreciate it


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## Taboo (Jun 28, 2013)

aha apologies! (but on a side note, that was a gorgeous fish I accidentally linked you too  )

THIS is what I intended to show!

And, I think, if it is a mycobacterium you are tackling, Hydrogen peroxide is ineffective? I think it's ethyl alcohol that needs to be used


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

If it *is* Mycobacteria, then bleach isn't effective against it, anyway..... (The bacteria has a waxy outer coating that protects it.)

I would use alcohol - either ethanol (ethyl alcohol) or isopropyl alcohol (also called rubbing alcohol, or 2-propanol). It should have a concentration of 70% alcohol (or higher). Wipe down the tank and equipment well. Be especially careful to remove any salt deposits or organic material. (These can harbor the bacteria.)

In the studies that I read, they soaked the equipment in 70% ethyl alcohol for at least 4 hours. If that's possible, I would do it. If not, I would try to keep the alcohol on it for as long as you can.

Let the tank/equipment air dry completely. Then rinse it well with hot water. Even better, use boiling water. 

UV light is also effective against Mycobacterium. If possible, put the equipment outside in sunlight for a few days.

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Edited to add: 

@Taboo - Yes, that was a beautiful fish! Did you bid on him?  I just checked the site you posted. It looks like it's one of Sherolyn Craig's "Basement Bettas" sites. She is a top IBC breeder, and often posts on Bettafish.com (under the name "Basement Bettas.") Awhile back, she dealt with Myco. She created a thread about it in this forum. I searched, but couldn't find the thread. However, she wrote some posts on this thread about her experience with Myco. If I can find her other thread, I'll post a link. She had some valuable information on it, especially regarding symptoms, disinfection protocols, etc.


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## Taeanna (Apr 2, 2013)

A side note to remember as well to what was added by those above for disinfecting=

Heat denatures cell walls, some bacteria can survive chemicals and even drying out but they certainly cant stop their insides liquefying.
Its the reason why autoclaves save hospital infections spreading. There may be leftover flu on the phone in the waiting room from someone that doesnt wash their hands- but those tools go through an autoclave that submits them to alternating heat and undeniably huge pressure. Its like a germ trying to live on mars


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