# Undergravel filter or no?



## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm gonna buy new(probably 1 gallon tanks). One has an undergravel filter and the other has the one like half above the water. Is one better then the other?


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

Honestly in that small of a tank filters are not worth it. You still have to do 100% weekly water changes.


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## kgplucker (Feb 26, 2011)

I don't like the undergravel filters. I find that the gravel gets stuck in them and makes them worthless anyway. I've also had them get stuck and then scratch the tank trying to get them out. use hang-on or internal filters.


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

turtle10 said:


> Honestly in that small of a tank filters are not worth it. You still have to do 100% weekly water changes.


Actually, you have to do 100% water changes every other day. Ammonia builds up SUPER fast in a tank that small.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Okay, I don't want to sound rude or not caring. But I keep my bettas in small unfiltered tanks without changing the water for a few weeks. One time, and I know this is bad, I didn't change the water for months(PLEASE DON'T FREAK OUT AT THAT). My fish are very active and happy. All I'm trying to say is that water changes really only have to be done every few weeks...


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

Um, NO. They need to be done WAY more often than that. Please don't mislead people just because you got lucky.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't think I got lucky, I think you're being way to generous with the water changes.


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

And I think you just don't know enough about fish. NO creature should have to live in their own filth that long. Would you wait to change a baby's diaper for days after they pooped? No, you wouldn't. So don't do it to your fish.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

You cannot argue that a fish in a tank is the same as a baby with a diaper. The fish's poop just sinks to the bottom and after one day, especially with a betta, there isn't that much anyways.


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

It releases ammonia, which builds up in the water. It doesn't take long for that to happen. They also release ammonia from their gills. That's why frequent water changes are necessary. Please don't get any more fish if you refuse to listen to reason.


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

You are absolutely wrong David. Did you know that poop will disintegrate and basically become part of the water? Did you know that bettas constantly secrete ammonia from their bodies? You HAVE to change the water a few times a week in something that tiny. Your betta will suffer and die from ammonia exposure. You got LUCKY, nothing more. Please do not get another fish if you refuse to do water changes. 

A baby is not the same is a fish, because a baby just has poop in his diaper. The fish has to swim and BREATHE the poop.


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

Since we're on the subject, how often would one need to do a water change on a 5 gal? If 1 gal is every other day @ 100% and a 10 gal is every week @ 25% , then how should a 5 gal be changed?


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

nmaybyte said:


> Since we're on the subject, how often would one need to do a water change on a 5 gal? If 1 gal is every other day @ 100% and a 10 gal is every week @ 25% , then how should a 5 gal be changed?


I am a crazy water tester. So I test the water first. It seems to work out to 25-50% once a week on my cycled tanks. If your tank isn't cycled then you probably need 50% twice a week (sometimes more) until cycled. I test the water every other day on the uncycled tanks and if it needs it then do it. I have some that still haven't cycled and it's really annoying. I am just hoping it happens very soon.


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

iheartmybettas said:


> I am a crazy water tester.


ME TOO. I posted on my FB the other day that I felt like a mad scientist with all the tanks and airline pipings that I've got going and all the tests I've done. xD


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

nmaybyte said:


> ME TOO. I posted on my FB the other day that I felt like a mad scientist with all the tanks and airline pipings that I've got going and all the tests I've done. xD


Lol! My husband has started calling me his little chemist. :lol: Since I test our tanks constantly.


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

In terms of David's original question, UGF's are useless on a 1 gallon. I have used the 1 gallons but left them out so there was more room for the fish. At a minimum do 1 50% and 1 100% water change a week. If you get a 5 gallon you can cycle it and only have to do 1 water change a week. 

If you tested your water when you go as long as you do you would find out how truly toxic the water was your fish is being forced to live in. I can only imagine the state of the water that was in your little tank. We water change our 75 gallon more than you are changing your little tanks and ours is cycled AND 75 gallons. You can't just assume that because your fish are survivors that what you did is correct. Bettas are hardy fish and can withstand quite a bit of abuse. 

I have not always been the best owner but I wish I had and I really feel horrible for the conditions my prior fish lived in. They were my pets and I didn't really give them the best enviroment. The owner I am today would have yelled at myself the way I was. Horrible!


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

Something that I don't understand is when I'll test my water that I've primed and such and I still get a .25 ppm for Ammonia. This is the water I've PRIMED. So...wtc is up with that. Apparently it's not detoxifying all of the water.


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

I'd hate to see what's in what I drink. ' I might need to start buying the spring water gallons and then creating a sump tank.


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks for the answers. I apologize for being kind of rude earlier. I settled on a 2 gallon aquarium from petco that comes with a side filter.


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

nmaybyte said:


> Something that I don't understand is when I'll test my water that I've primed and such and I still get a .25 ppm for Ammonia. This is the water I've PRIMED. So...wtc is up with that. Apparently it's not detoxifying all of the water.


Have you tried adding a little extra? I know that it won't harm the betta if it will take care of the ammonia. Ours tests at 0ppm once treated so I haven't had to deal with it.

Edit: I didn't even think about the fact we have a filtration system on our whole house so that probably makes a big difference.


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

What do you mean? Like adding a little more than what it calls for? I can try that......I'm sure anything at or below .2 is okay. Or, at least it was for us back in the day.


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## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

nmaybyte said:


> What do you mean? Like adding a little more than what it calls for? I can try that......I'm sure anything at or below .2 is okay. Or, at least it was for us back in the day.


Yeah just add an extra drop or 2. It really should be fine even if you don't but might mean more water changing. I can't say for sure though.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Okay, I don't want to sound rude or not caring. But I keep my bettas in small unfiltered tanks without changing the water for a few weeks. One time, and I know this is bad, I didn't change the water for months(PLEASE DON'T FREAK OUT AT THAT). My fish are very active and happy. All I'm trying to say is that water changes really only have to be done every few weeks...


It's your fish you the owner you are gonna do what you gonna do. But really, regardless of your perceived fishes health, why do you only change water only after a few weeks? It takes me less then 10 minutes to do a 50pct siphon and replenishment on my 5. Too busy schedule?


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

scootshoot said:


> It's your fish you the owner you are gonna do what you gonna do. But really, regardless of your perceived fishes health, why do you only change water only after a few weeks? It takes me less then 10 minutes to do a 50pct siphon and replenishment on my 5. Too busy schedule?



Well partly has to do with the fact that I only recently found out that I can just buy water conditioner and use it in tap water instead paying to buy spring water. I'll probably start doing water changes more often since I plan on buying water conditioner tomorrow.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

davidbailey said:


> Well partly has to do with the fact that I only recently found out that I can just buy water conditioner and use it in tap water instead paying to buy spring water. I'll probably start doing water changes more often since I plan on buying water conditioner tomorrow.


Nice. I probably overlooked your past discussion on conditioner. I assume you are gonna go with PRIME?


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## davidbailey (Mar 13, 2011)

Is that the best option? If so, then probably!


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

For bang for the buck yes. Some conditioners I read on the back label tells the owner to count out 10 or more drops per half gallon water which is crazy. PRIME is concentrated, 2 drops per 1 gallon of water is all that's needed and will last you a long time.

Also dismiss the more expensive brands with fancy marketing labels like "laced with Aloe vera" or other garbage. PRIME is the only way to go.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

nmaybyte said:


> Something that I don't understand is when I'll test my water that I've primed and such and I still get a .25 ppm for Ammonia. This is the water I've PRIMED. So...wtc is up with that. Apparently it's not detoxifying all of the water.


Some dechlorinators that bind with ammonia changes it to ammonium that is fish safe and can still be used by both live plants and nitrifying bacteria to establish the nitrogen cycle...the testing products can't tell the difference between the two.....you can usually go to the web-site of the dechlorinator you use and it will give you this information and suggested testing products that are compatible.....watch the fish and the fish will usually tell you which it is....either ammonia or ammonium.......

Also, test your source water as well to rule that out as the reason for the ammonia reading....


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## nmaybyte (Mar 13, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Some dechlorinators that bind with ammonia changes it to ammonium that is fish safe and can still be used by both live plants and nitrifying bacteria to establish the nitrogen cycle...the testing products can't tell the difference between the two.....you can usually go to the web-site of the dechlorinator you use and it will give you this information and suggested testing products that are compatible.....watch the fish and the fish will usually tell you which it is....either ammonia or ammonium.......
> 
> Also, test your source water as well to rule that out as the reason for the ammonia reading....


You know...being a biology minor I should have realized that. Idk what I was thinking. Thank you for the clarification.


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## denaliwind (Feb 27, 2011)

A 1-3 gal tank without filter needs a 100% per week with a 50% change in between.

...I commented a little late, oops! XD
Good luck with your fish.


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## scootshoot (Oct 11, 2010)

denaliwind said:


> Nope, a 1-3 gal tank without filter needs a 100% per week with a 50% change in between.


Everyone is gonna have their own opinions on frequency. True accuracy for each individuals tank is figured out by doing water tests and measuring out the time it takes to notice a spike as these measurements are based on individual betta waste, uneaten food, etc. 

Regardless, some fishkeepers seem to wait it out as if it's a chore. It takes me less then 10 minutes to do a 50pct siphon and replenishment on my 5 gallon so am probably the type who does more water changes then perhaps needed but it's not a big deal since it's so simple and fast to do. :lol:


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

I have PRIME and I haven't used it yet. It says that it treats 2500 gallons, and it was only $6 (which is $1 more than the conditioner that I'm currently using, which treats 25 gallons


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## denaliwind (Feb 27, 2011)

scootshoot said:


> Everyone is gonna have their own opinions on frequency. True accuracy for each individuals tank is figured out by doing water tests and measuring out the time it takes to notice a spike as these measurements are based on individual betta waste, uneaten food, etc.
> 
> Regardless, some fishkeepers seem to wait it out as if it's a chore. It takes me less then 10 minutes to do a 50pct siphon and replenishment on my 5 gallon so am probably the type who does more water changes then perhaps needed but it's not a big deal since it's so simple and fast to do. :lol:


Good point. ^^
I'm the type that enjoys water changes and finds it a very relaxing experience. XD


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## turtle10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I like doing water changes because I know it will make the fish feel better. I kind of think of it as a shower or bath for the fish. My tanks are cycled but they still appreciate fresh water "bath".


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