# Is it really that easy to start & maintain an NPT?



## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

According to the sticky:
http://www.bettafish.com/printthread.php?t=114575&pp=40

Q1: 
So can I do this with a 5-gal tank or it has to be minimum 10-gal tank?

Q2: 
It sounds like you can start the tank with the soil, plants, and fish the same day, did I read it correctly? 

It just sound much less complicated than cycling and water changes.

Q3: 
I just bought a 5 gal, but I like the idea of NPT (no filter??) If 10g is min., I will upgrade my unopened tank for Fred my red VT.

Q4:
Also, will mosquitoes or gnats breed in a NPT, especially in the hot summer in Los Angeles?

Q5:
Can I just use gravel and plants, no soil?

Thanks for your help.:smile:


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I have started soil based planted tanks in containers as small as 1gal without issues.

I have started some with a filter and later removed it and have started without a filter with equal success.

When I set one up-I add all my intended livestock the same day without problems or deaths.

You can have a successful planted tank by using inert substrate-but that is not a natural planted tank IMO.

With the soil based heavy planted tank-when setup properly-Once matured and balanced....Are as close to a natural ecosystem that can be created in a closed system-IMO/E....


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 23, 2012)

*OOPS, OFL beat me to it!*


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks, so can I start off a new tank adding plants and using the "old water" from my betta tank when I am cleaning Fred to "prep" the NPT as I collect more plants and shrimps before putting my Fred red VT and Moses the Marimo Moss in there?

I suppose checking on the water stats :ammonia, nitrites, nitrates will be needed in a plant-only tank in the interim?

How about this substrates from PetSmart & Petco?
Super Naturals Premium AQ Substrate
Eco Complete Planted Black AQ Substrate
CaribSea FloraMax Planted Aquarium Substrate


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## BettAsha (Oct 26, 2012)

I too have a 5 gallon although currently empty and fishless. Although from what I gathered is that you can just start with plants, fish, substrate all in one day. I have yet to keep a NPT for leisure but I did have to keep one for a science project in school (it was for a bio lab). 

With a NPT levels will eventually remain pretty stable and your fish, plant and shrimp will let you know too but that does not mean not to test your Ammonia, pH, and Nitrates and Nitrites. 

I think most people should go the NPT route because it makes things so much easier and depending on your tank size a filter isn't always needed.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

OrangeAugust said:


> *OOPS, OFL beat me to it!*



Thats okay...but you should have left your post....


You don't need to use old tank water for the new tank-fresh dechlorinated is better. 

When starting a soil based tank-it is important to start with enough of the right species of plants.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm interested in turning my new 5g into a NPT too once I get it. 

OFL, what are the "right species" of plants to use when starting a NPT?


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

carbonxxkidd said:


> I'm interested in turning my new 5g into a NPT too once I get it.
> 
> OFL, what are the "right species" of plants to use when starting a NPT?


It's in the sticky I referenced in my original post, #1.
I am not sure how many plants are needed but it has a wide selection to pick from the list.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Otterfun said:


> It's in the sticky I referenced in my original post, #1.
> I am not sure how many plants are needed but it has a wide selection to pick from the list.


 
Ooooh, cool. I'm also wondering how many plants are needed. I have quite a few of the ones in the sticky in my 29g and I should be able to get some cuttings but I will probably need more I'm guessing.


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Thats okay...but you should have left your post....
> 
> 
> You don't need to use old tank water for the new tank-fresh dechlorinated is better.
> ...


Thanks, so does that mean Prime may not work as well with a NPT since, according to their info, "Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. "? 

Also 
"Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3). 

_Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process." <--If this is true, then will it make sense that the plants will pick up where the "other" dechlorinators stop in NPT?_

Sorry, the info from Prime is confusing to me.

Excerpt from Seachem's website on Prime:
Product Description
Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. 

Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. 

Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. 

Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. 

Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry, I wasn't clear with my last response....Prime is fine to use and it is one of the better dechlorinators when you have chlorine and chloramines in your source water-as well as ammonia in the source water to start with. The ammonia neutralizer products change the ammonia to ammonium and both live plants and beneficial bacteria can use the ammonium just like ammonia for a food source.

What I meant by you not needing to use the old water from your old tank in the new tank-Is that it contains nothing that is needed in a new setup. The beneficial bacteria for the nitrogen cycle are sticky and adhere to all the surface areas within the tank, in the top layer of the substrate and on the filter media-very little are in the water column itself. 
The old tank water is dechlorinated-but it may be full of byproducts you don't need or want in the new system and its best IMO to start with fresh dechlorinated water.

If your source water contains chlorine/chloramines-you have to use a dechlorinater with any new water added to the tank. Partial water changes, full water changes and top offs....


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

What is the best way to do water changes/add water in a NPT without disturbing the sand/soil/plants?


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear with my last response....Prime is fine to use and it is one of the better dechlorinators when you have chlorine and chloramines in your source water-as well as ammonia in the source water to start with. The ammonia neutralizer products change the ammonia to ammonium and both live plants and beneficial bacteria can use the ammonium just like ammonia for a food source.
> 
> What I meant by you not needing to use the old water from your old tank in the new tank-Is that it contains nothing that is needed in a new setup. The beneficial bacteria for the nitrogen cycle are sticky and adhere to all the surface areas within the tank, in the top layer of the substrate and on the filter media-very little are in the water column itself.
> The old tank water is dechlorinated-but it may be full of byproducts you don't need or want in the new system and its best IMO to start with fresh dechlorinated water.
> ...


Thank you for your help.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

carbonxxkidd said:


> What is the best way to do water changes/add water in a NPT without disturbing the sand/soil/plants?


When I add water-I will direct the water flow on/over my free hand to displace the flow so not to disturb the sand/soil/plant layer in my smaller tanks-In my larger tanks I direct the water flow against the back wall since I am using a python to fill the tank.


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## carbonxxkidd (Oct 30, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> When I add water-I will direct the water flow on/over my free hand to displace the flow so not to disturb the sand/soil/plant layer in my smaller tanks-In my larger tanks I direct the water flow against the back wall since I am using a python to fill the tank.


 
Thanks!!!


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## Psylk87 (Apr 18, 2012)

Sorry to but in here but I saw this thread and after reading it found it very helpful. 
How do I know how many plants I need for a 5.5 gallon NPT?
This will be my first NPT and I plan to do a 5.5 gallon shrimp tank. Can you do a NPT with no fish and only shrimp? Or is soemthing else my better option?


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## Sagat (Dec 13, 2012)

carbonxxkidd said:


> What is the best way to do water changes/add water in a NPT without disturbing the sand/soil/plants?


I sometimes pour into a plate that's floating on the surface (or a cup that has it's lip floating at about the same height when I'm lazy).

As for how many plants:
From what I've read, a tank is considered heavily planted if less than 25% of the substrate can be seen from the top.


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## Otterfun (Dec 31, 2012)

Sagat said:


> I sometimes pour into a plate that's floating on the surface (or a cup that has it's lip floating at about the same height when I'm lazy).
> 
> As for how many plants:
> From what I've read, a tank is considered heavily planted if less than 25% of the substrate can be seen from the top.


Thanks


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