# Copper Marble and Blue Dragon Spawn Log



## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I am very excited about these spawns 
The Parents:
Copper Marbles:
Senshi (Copper Marble HM) X Hanabi (Marble HMPK)









Blue Dragon:
Nino (Blue Dragon OHM) X Aoki (Blue Dragon SD/HM)


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## naturegirl243 (Aug 1, 2010)

Beautful! If the spawn wth Senshi works out I would be interested in a pair.I'm such a huge fan of your boy he is so pretty!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you naturegirl  
My favorite part of spawning is the courting, I just love how colorful and animated the males get. At this point, both pairs are in their spawning tanks, girls are in plastic containers. I might release Aoki tonight. Nino and her have been flirting for 3 days now and Aoki is barred up and reacting well... We'll see.

Nino's fins are doing much much better. The black and red tips are gone and it's already healing. The Tetracycline treatment combined with salt worked like magic  
Nino X Aoki








Senshi X Hanabi


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Aww, Senshi kind of looks like the gentle lover. Haha. <3 Gorgeous, very excited to see the outcomes!


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## youlovegnats (Feb 23, 2011)

So pretty!!!! *0*


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Now I can see your pictures  ..... nice pairs.
I love Nino. His kind of color can sometimes look blue and sometimes green - amazing dragon.

The red on the second male, IMO is more due to marbling effects (not color genetics ..... does that make sense?). So as long as offspring turns out marble, they should have such red/brown patterns. 
Is it me or does the female look unresponsive?


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks guys  I released both females last night; both males had begun making bubble nests and the girls were responding very well. 

You got that right Nymmers, Senshi has been especially gentle. No torn fins in their tank yet. Nino on the other hand... I'll give him another day or two but if he tears Aoki's fins any more I'll be canceling their spawning! She hasn't showed stress lines once, but her fins look a little worse for wear :/

I'm guessing the marbles will spawn by tomorrow afternoon, Aoki is ready but Nino and her don't seem to hit it off so I'm not sure about them...

Many egg laying species spawn in response to the small change in temperature following rain so this morning I tried something new; I used my lizard's mister to simulate rain, fed both frozen blood worms, then continued the simulated rain for a few minutes. Senshi immediately built a gigantic bubble nest... Aoki's bars got even more dramatic... I think I'll try that again tomorrow morning...


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Nino did look feisty from your pictures, he was flaring a lot. Still gorgeous, maybe he's just more anxious. Not sure, but good luck and I hope he calms down and things work out for Aoki!

Congrats on huge bubble nests.


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## LucyLoofa (May 30, 2010)

They both look like excellent pairs!  I'm very interested in following this!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

indjo, actually the marble is extremely responsive... I believe they could spawn any minute now. I have to say, Senshi and Hanabi are the most laid back pair I've ever had. Senshi keeps working on his nest and every once and awhile Hanabi comes over to check it out. They've tried to wrap a few times now unsuccessfully but hey it's their first spawning! I'm going out to starbucks now, I bet there will be eggs in the nest by the time I get home 

Both Aoki and Nino just seem frustrated, I think they will spawn, it's just a matter of time. They seem to have a difference in opinion of where the nest should be. Aoki wants it under the styrofoam cup and keeps waiting there for Nino who keeps making one underneath a lily pad leaf that he can just barely fit under due to the amount of plants in there. I really hope Nino calms down soon :/


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

I can't wait to see how the spawns turn out! The blue pair is my favorite.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

We've got eggs! Senshi and Hanabi spawned some time today after I left for work at around 7am... They actually started spawning last night but there weren't eggs in the nest until just now. There aren't all that many, maybe 30-50, which isn't surprising since Hanabi is pretty small/young. I might reintroduce the pair in 2 weeks depending on the number of survivors. Spawning doesn't seem to have taken a toll on either of them which is awesome. Senshi's nest takes up about 1/3 of the tank even though he's corralled all the eggs so they only take up about the space of a quarter lol

Aoki and Nino have yet to spawn or make a bubble nest ( they had one 2 days ago but never rebuilt it)... I'm going to separate them for a few days then reintroduce them and see what happens.

Can't wait to see some wigglers soon! 
Last night>>>


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## Sweeda88 (Dec 6, 2010)

Woooooo! Good for them!


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## LucyLoofa (May 30, 2010)

Congratulations new fish mommy!


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Woo, eggs!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Congrats and good luck on rearing the fry.

Be sure to keep us posted. I'd like to know how they turn out...... unpredictable like mine or in accordance to the mendelian theory.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks guys! Don't worry this will be well updated. I can't wait to see how the genetics play out


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Yaaay! Be a good papa, Senshi!


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## BettaBetty (May 1, 2011)

Grats on the spawn and eggs! So happy for you! We should have a fry play date. *wink*


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

sorry darkmoon i have been away for a while so sorry i havent responded. i want a pair from one of these spawns!!! congrats!!!


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Senshi is a popular man. haha


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## babyk (Apr 24, 2011)

Senshi is so gorgeous. My boyfriend (who says I am completely crazy for loving my bettas so much) actually said he looks really cool and wouldnt mind seeing one that looks like that added to my collection


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

<3 He is really unique. When you come up with a price you must tell us! I'm ready to send I'm so excited! =D


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ah thanks guys! You're gonna make him blush  You'll be first to know when the fry are sellable 

So a quick update, no swimmers yet but I can see the eyes and tails on some of the eggs. They might start hatching over night, that would be a nice thing to wake up to! Senshi has been wonderful, I've never had such a well mannered betta. It doesn't look like he has eatten any eggs and he hasn't even attacked the snail which was literally in the nest for some time... I might leave him with the fry for a few days.

Here is a video of Senshi and Hanabi flirting 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXHY7N4McM


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Its so cute how he keeps turning away and swimming! Playing hard to get! His finnage is absolutely gorgeous. No doubt the fry will be the same. <3


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks Nymmers  It was really entertaining to watch them flirt, it's the first time I've had a stressless spawning! Usually there is a lot more tail chasing...

If we get really lucky maybe the fry will get his personality too!


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

That'd be so cute! I'd probably get a male and a couple of girls when you sell him, I just bought this guy today -> http://www.aquabid.com/uploads/fwbettashm1306164002.jpg he's copper marbled and looks like a bit of dark red too. =D


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hopefully there will be enough to go around 
Oh man! I was watching that guy for that last few days! He's so handsome, congrats! I like how he and his 2 brothers all have a single red spot on their tail, very striking.


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

That spot is what caught my attention, and how they slowly got more white with each brother. I think he's got a bit of dragon going on not sure.

Is this the only time you'll be spawning Senshi? I'd be happy to send a money earlier to reserve a few. <3


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

They definitely have some dragon scaling going on. If I had room I'd get one too, unfortunately there are going to be a ton of fry here soon, especially if Nino and Aoki ever decide that they like each other >.>

I'm not sure, I might try spawning him with my black copper girl or my normal copper girl for some more variety. If Nino/Aoki don't spawn then I'll probably spawn Senshi again since he is so unfazed by this last spawning. I'll take reservations, but you might want to wait until they hatch!


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

They only have one brother left, and he is mostly copper. ^^ I plan to spawn him if I can find the perfect female, I'd want one with more red.

Aoki and Nino are still being stubborn then. Maybe they're having more fun tormenting one another and Senshi just wants to be a ladies man. Haha. I will wait until they hatch of course! And make sure they're in the home stretch, wouldn't want to get my eye on one then something happens.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Sadness... Well, there might be some girlies in this batch with some red. Those boys have such a particular pattern, it would be interesting to see if their fry had it too.

They are separated right now, I'll put them back in the spawn tank tomorrow and see what happens. I think Nino might not be mature enough even though he is over 4 months old... I'll probably be looking to sell some of Senshi's fry in late July/early August (from this spawn and any possible future spawn with him).


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Woke up to wigglers! I haven't tried to count them but their were 10 or so on the floor. It seems Senshi has given up on keeping them in the nest! Ok, got to go to work now but I'll get pictures when I get back


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Wahoo wigglers! That's great. =D


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## squal90 (Apr 15, 2011)

your guy's bubble nest is HUGE!!! good job!.. i wish you the best!


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Wigglers! Come on Senshi, don't be lazy. >.> If he ends up doing all the breeding, then he'll turn into the old spice man of bettas. Hello Ladies...


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Yes be good enough you wouldn't even have to leave the tank! No laziness. Haha.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Well, I think he wasn't just being lazy... When I got home Senshi was laying on his side breathing heavy. I've removed him and put him back in his tank. I'm not sure he's going to make it though     I don't know what's wrong, maybe it got too hot and humid for him (84*)? The fry are not free swimming. Many of them are on the ground, some are attached to the bubble nest or plants. They are mobile so they should be fine without him... There are a few eggs that haven't hatched yet but I can see the eyes so they are fertilized. I just hope Senshi pulls through. He refused food last night and again now D:


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Oh poor Senshi! I hope he'll be okay. Hopefully he's just tired and need some rest.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh no! I wonder what happened to him?


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I really don't know... I know he's on the older side for breeding so maybe he was just worn out by all the babies... or he just couldn't tolerate the temperature? I know it got hot in my room today compared to yesterday. He's doing a bit better now, at least he's sitting up. I really hate to see them having so much trouble breathing  

Meanwhile, Nino and Aoki are back in the spawning tank. I'll leave Aoki in her container until Nino starts building a bubble nest, if he decides to build a bubble nest that is.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Maybe. I would hate for you to lose him. I can't even imagine a betta that wouldn't eat.


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Glad to hear he's doing a little better! =3


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

DarkMoon17 said:


> I really don't know... I know he's on the older side for breeding so maybe he was just worn out by all the babies... or he just couldn't tolerate the temperature? I know it got hot in my room today compared to yesterday. He's doing a bit better now, at least he's sitting up. I really hate to see them having so much trouble breathing
> 
> Meanwhile, Nino and Aoki are back in the spawning tank. I'll leave Aoki in her container until Nino starts building a bubble nest, if he decides to build a bubble nest that is.


Have you tried using salt and IAL? Breeding sometimes does that to males, specially HM's - IDK why? 

IMO age is not the cause. You see, I sometimes breed old males (over 1 yr) with no problems while younger males sometimes have problems. The thing is, I can't figure out why. Is it because they weren't healthy enough in the first place - maybe caught some sort of parasite but hasn't shown any symptoms or something. Or does the embracing event drains out their energy...... I have yet to figure it out.

Sorry about your guy. hope he makes it.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I imagine that HM males have a rougher time of it with all of the extra fin weight. It would be like trying to swim in a frilly dress.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

I was planning to use IAL in this spawning but the seller got my address wrong and I don't know when it will get here, if it ever does.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fins... My CTs have never had problems after breeding, nor did my SDs. I have had problems like this in HM/OHM in the past as well. The betta in my ID had similar issues. Senshi had been conditioned for over a month and was in great condition before hand so I find it a bit strange that he had such issues but I'm not too surprised considering his fins are heavy. 

He is doing better today, not so active but he isn't listless and he did eat his blood worms this morning. 

The fry aren't free swimming yet, some of them are trying though! Maybe they will be on their own tonight. There are a number of dead/unhatched fry on the ground which I'm guessing Senshi would have eaten had he been left in there. Once some of the others are free swimming I'll try to remove those with a pipette.


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm glad to hear Senshi's doing better.


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## mernincrazy8525 (Feb 28, 2011)

how is he now? and about how many fry. I am so happy for you. Look at it this way, if by any chance senshi passes(which he never will), you will have a lot of his babies which will look like him. Senshi will pull through.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you  
He's not doing great, but with a little TLC he should be ok. I'm hoping with a good diet and warm water he'll get his energy back.

I have counted 30 or so healthy fry, there are definitely more since I only counted the ones right near where the nest used to be. There are a number of dead fry/eggs which I have begun removing, I just took out around 20 so I way underestimated how many eggs were in the nest. He must have layered them.


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## JoLynn (May 17, 2011)

I hope Senshi gets better! ^__^ How much would a female fry go for?


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Depending on how they come out, females would be in the $10-$20 range. I'm not sure these ones are going to make it though.... As of this morning I can't find many and there are more dead fry. I think fry really need their father to take care of them to make it to the free swimming stage. I won't be sure how many there are until they are free swimming. 

Senshi is still holding on. He has eaten, but he still isn't giving me a whole lot of confidence that he's going to be ok.


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## JoLynn (May 17, 2011)

Okay  Keep us posted.


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

Oh Senshi, and Senshi's babies! <33


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Sadly, I don't think there are any fry left, I haven't seen any movement in the tank since I got home... It doesn't surprise me though since I truly believe fry need their father to keep them healthy during the first days. 

Senshi has shown quite a bit of improvement today. He's much more active and wants food. Lots of food. I'll give the tank a few days to make sure their aren't any survivors and I'll give Senshi at least 2 weeks break then I'm going to try again. 

Does anyone know how I can help Senshi out next time? I'm going to cross him with Hanabi again so the spawning part should go pretty smoothly. I just don't know how to make the fry care part less stressful for him? He obviously needs to stay with them the entire time or they won't make it...


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## GienahClarette (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear about that.


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

There are a couple things you could possibly do.

Lower the level of water during spawning, so not as much swimming can be done (so he can't tire AS easy), lower the level just a *little* more when he's working with the eggs so he doesn't have to swim as far to get them, or find some sort of floating cylinder that he can fit in, so again he doesn't have to go as far, (maybe like a bigger version of the betta log?) but so he can also rest and still be close the eggs, because his mine priority is to be close to them so if he can rest closer rather than resting on the bottom/in leaves he might take things a little easier and not get as stressed/tired.

If you think it's the heat that is bothering him, while in his normal tank plastic wrap for short periods of time so he can slowly get used to humidity? 

Other than that you could add some Aquarium Salt, to use as a general stress reducer. =3 People say you shouldn't use it all the time, but I add it to my tanks when I'm doing water changes, and I've still been able to use it to fight any infections etc.. You just have to use it sparingly I guess, I wouldn't recommend using it every day of course.

However, with this being his 'second spawn' (although the first might not have been a huge success) he's definitely got the idea down, and he'll know what to do now.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Ya, I'm hoping the second spawning won't take as long. The first one wasn't stressful at all, but they sure took their time. 

For the first spawn the tank was only half full (no more than 5"). I can lower it a touch more. I mean, I remember thinking he was pretty lucky since all his eggs stayed in the nest. I never saw him picking up an egg. But maybe the fry were too rambunctious. 

I'll look around for something he might be able to rest on. Maybe I can move the anarachis so that he can sit on it...

I think I'll use Stress Coat as the conditioner this time and add salt, but I'll only use salt while Senshi is in there then phase it out. I don't want the fry to build an immunity to its effects. 
Thanks Nymmers!


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## Nymmers (May 2, 2011)

The main thing though is this is his second experiance, so he'll probably do a lot better. I've read some people have the water leve 3-4in during spawning/eggs. =3 Good plan with the salt, I woke up this morning and read my post I was surprised you understood. hahaha.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO there must be something wrong with the water because all were effected (daddy and fry). Healthy eggs/fry don't really need daddy to take care of them. That's why artificial hatching is possible. I often take out "troubled" daddies early and healthy fry were not effected. The weaker ones developed slower and often died.

If you're confident that your male is gentle towards the female, you can either use a solid divider to make the spawning area smaller or use the thai method - spawn in a small container. Fill the water about 7 - 10cm (about 4" or less).

I usually use a 30x30x15cm container fill it to about 7-10cm (aprox 1g or less of water). To avoid a massacre I jam half of the container with anacharis. Once they've spawned I would either remove all or most of the plants (depending on how big daddy's fins are). Keep fry in there until at least 5 days then slowly acclimate to a larger tank/tub - float the container in a large tank for at least 30 minutes so temp are fairly the same. Then take a 1g tank and place it on top of the large tank. fill it up with the large tank water and let it drip into the container through an airline tube. Leave it until the container is full. Then carefully sink and tilt the container and let everything out.

I wouldn't use A.salt. As a stress reducer, IAL is adequate. But that's just me. Warning: I've read that high concentration of IAL shouldn't be used for HM because it may cause their fins to fold, clamp, etc. And don't use it directly - it's best to make a thick solution then pour in the needed amount (if used directly, a thick layer will build up on the water surface - not good for fry and HM in general........ unless of course you're using 1 leaf for a big filtered tank)


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you for the suggestions Indjo. Sadly I don't have IAL since they never arrived. I've been chasing down the seller for a few days now... I spent quite a bit on that so I won't be getting more from a different seller until I get a refund or something. Very frustrating.

I'm not sure what to do about the water. I use well water and all my other fish are perfectly fine. I should have tested the chemistry on it before I dumped out the water (stupid me) but there were 5 gallons and the 2 fish had only been in it for 2-3 days. I have never done water changes during the spawning process and it has never been a problem before. Mom says there weren't any heavy metals in the water when we bought the house (during the house inspection, we just moved in a few months ago). Just in case, I am using Stress Coat this time around. I've decreased the temp to 80*. I've cleaned all my spawning tanks 100% and only filled them to 4". I'll try removing some plants once the eggs have hatched since I'm sure they got in the way. 

Ok, so today Senshi is back to normal and has built a gigantic bubble nest in his tank. He is eating well, carrying on with the other males and very active. Since he has a bubble nest and is obviously in the mood would it be safe to reintroduce Senshi and Hanabi this weekend (i've never respawned fish before...)? They spawned on the 19th so Sunday will be the 10 day mark for Hanabi.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

IMO it's best to rest troubled males because though he looks active, spawning some how takes a lot out of them. But then again if you're really eager to get offspring from him, you have no choice but to chance it - specially if you're under a time limit. 

I often "force" such males but end up artificially hatching the eggs because most of them can't take it. Sometimes I find it useful to give them a different environment before re-spawning. Eg. if you usually put them in a non planted tank with filters, try putting them in a planted tank without filters. Or if they are usually in a big tank, try putting them in a small tank...... tweak your own method of "new environment"..... and above all, try to make the breeding area as small and as shallow as possible.

IMO one of the beauty of betta keeping is that they keep you on your toes. You have to constantly try new things for certain individuals. And here your judgment is the best "indicator/tester". 

I too currently have water problems - it almost wiped out my entire collection and forced me to start from scratch. My tap water is contaminated with something so I'm using rain water .... not too good for HM. I'm not producing a lot per batch but it's enough to keep me going. So don't give up! ..... almost forgot, try aging your water for at least 24 hours before use. 

EDIT: my small breeding containers are usually between 5 - 7cm (not 10cm) or about 2 - 3 inches.


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

My only concern with waiting too long is my family is going to Ireland for a few days and I need the fry to be stable and willing to eat powdered food by then. In the past, my fry have typically begun accepting Atison's Fry Starter around the 3 week mark which would be right when we are leaving... I don't want my pet sitter trying to hatch brine shrimp but I guess we'll just pay her extra if she does have to. I don't want anything to happen to Senshi.

He's currently in a divided 20 gal, his section is 3 gal and it is planted. There is a filter but it is a few dividers down from him. I might be able to move things around and get him into a 2.5 gal tank so he can have some privacy. 

I will also try dividing off the spawning section so it is a bit smaller. I'm not sure I want to go smaller than that because Senshi is a rather large betta and I think he will have trouble moving around if the water is less than 4" (he's about 3" "tall"). My other boys would be just fine with the Thai method though, maybe I will try it with Sho. I also aged the water for 24-36 hours just to be safe.

I'm sorry to hear about your water issues... It takes time to rebuild after losing your entire collection, it's wonderful that you stuck with it! I can sympathize since my parents managed to kill ALL of my breeding stock when I studied abroad for 3 months. It took me a year to get everything back up to breeding again. I hope you are able to collect enough water, I'd never be able to do that here! 

Thanks Indjo~


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## TequilatheBetta (Apr 5, 2011)

Hmmm... would you be willing to ship to Canada? I would love fry from Senshi  He's so gorgeous, and so is the girl 

Edit : oh, I'm sorry. I didn't read the rest before i posted!


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## DarkMoon17 (Apr 16, 2011)

No worries TequilatheBetta. I plan to respawn Senshi in a few weeks. He's a bit older now but I think he'll still manage... and the water at my apartment is much better for bettas than my current well water so hopefully the fry will survive this time. I'm not sure if I'll be able to ship to Canada but I'll look into it


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## TequilatheBetta (Apr 5, 2011)

Yay! Can't wait


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