# Betta Sick! Lethargic and turning grey!😢



## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Please help! My female crown tail Zebulun has fallen ill! She is a year old. My water pararmeters are as follows:

Ammonia: 1.0 ppm
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20 ppm

Trying to get a reading for my PH. She is in a ten gallon which may have had its cycle broken due to frequent partial water changes. I’ve been using Seachem prime and used stability to start the cycle. Please, your help is truly valued. Don’t want to lose her😭


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## Rana (Apr 27, 2013)

Sorry your betta isn't feeling well! Please copy+paste and fill out the form on this post so we can help you: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Fill out this form so we can best help your Betta

But also, water changes would _not_ break a cycle, even if they're frequent, unless you were also changing the filter media (cartridge, sponge, etc) for a new one or rinsing it under tap water. We have some great resources for cycling stickied at the tops of the forum if you want some more info on what cycling is or isn't.


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## Mr Grumpy (Feb 28, 2020)

Hi

I dont need to see the answers to the questions to know whats going on.

First,
You fish is very bloated, this is a sign of constipation.
Next 
You Ammonia is at 1, thats toxic the only way to bring it down is with water changes.

Water changes do not break the cycle, what *you must do is a 75% water change now and another 75% tomorrow to get rid of the ammonia.*

I will have more instructions after I see the answers to the questions.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? :10 gallons
Does it have a filter?:Yes
Does it have a heater?: Yes
What temperature is your tank?: 78 degrees
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?: Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?: No. There were two ADF’s but they died suddenly more than a month ago.

Food:
What food brand do you use? Frozen Blood worms

Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried?:No








How often do you feed your Betta? How much?: Once day. Little bit more than the size of her eyeball. Was going to feed her twice but she got sick.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every day to every other day because of ammonia detected. Started using Seachem Stability so I didn’t perform water changes for about two weeks.

What percentage of water did you change?: 20 ti

What is the source of your water?: Tap water with Seachem Prime and sometimes StressCo

Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?: At first I gravel vacced but since I was cycling, I just change the water.

What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?: I’ve used API Nitrifying Starter switched Stability. For my conditioner, I went from Stress Coat to Prime.

Water Parameters:

What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: .50 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):


Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
Last month. Lethargic, gills moving more than normal, and stays motionless at bottom of tank.

How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
Yes. She has turned grey and has patches of yellowish/white under her chin and underbelly.

How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
She hides a lot and stays at the top of the surface.

Is your Betta still eating?
Appetite has been hearty but hasn’t been finding the floating food

Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Yes I have by adding aquarium salt

Does your Betta have any history of being ill? She has had couple cases of Swim Bladder Disease. Treated with Epsom salt baths

How long have you owned your Betta?
A year and a month .

Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No. My crown rail was young and curious


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Thank you so much Mr Grumpy. I’m anguishing over her condition. I lost one these gals before. I may have accidentally posted the numbers in the form before I got all of them (newbie to the board). 

I’ve added aquarium salt and changed about 30% of the water. Is my crown tail okay? Is there immediate action I should take?


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## Mr Grumpy (Feb 28, 2020)

Hi

I will be blunt, your fish has some serious problems that if left untreated will kill it. Sorry thats the bad news.

Now for treatment.
Your fish is severely bloated, First thing DO NOT feed it for a 3 days to see if the swelling goes down.

Get some Daphnia and feed a few on the fourth day they are a great laxative.

I would like you to do a 75% water change, Treat the water with Prime only ( Use 2 drops per gallon of water )

How much salt did you add?


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Hello, thanks for the rapid response. I added 3 teaspoons in the morning and another 3 teaspoons a few hours later. I thought she might have velvet and when I looked it up, it said to add a teaspoon per gallon. I added one more teaspoon but did a 50% water change. 

I appreciate your straightforwardness and my fish’s passing is the last thing I want.

I’ve changed a lot of the water already. Will a large water change shock the betta?


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

You do NOT want to use aquarium salt in cases of bloat like your fish has, it causes the fish to retain water which is what you don't want in this case. Bloat calls for epsom salt which pulls the fluid out of the tissue (think about when we use it for swollen feet). 

Depending on when you test your water Prime could be what's causing your ammonia reading to be .50 to 1ppm. It can cause test like the API Master test to give a false positive reading. Wait at least 24 hours after dosing the tank with Prime to test the water, that way the Prime has a chance to dissipate and the reading should be accurate.

I'm honestly not sure if your girl has constipation, egg bound, a cyst or tumor, or something else. Mr. Grumpy's advice of fasting for 3 days and giving daphnia, might help. Keeping her in an Epsom Salt bath may help. 

Epsom Salt bath
1tsp plain epsom salt per 1 gal of water, 100% new epsom salt water every 24 hours. Keep the fish in the epsom salt water and only remove to put in fresh epsom salt water. Treat for up to 10 days. I use 2 containers, and float the one with the fish in the tank to maintain the water temperature. The other one is ready to go when I do the water change.


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## Mr Grumpy (Feb 28, 2020)

Hi
I was just about to reply when Rainbo did.
When adding salt make sure you dissolve it in some tank water first.



> You do NOT want to use aquarium salt in cases of bloat like your fish has,


I agree, Its why I suggested the OP do a water change or 2 and treat with prime only.



> Keeping her in an Epsom Salt bath may help.


*How to prepare (any) dip for your fish:*

Prepping for the dip is the same for either salt type. You will need:

a clean fish-only 1 gallon container
a smaller container
Water conditioner
a measuring spoon
thermometer
net
your undivided attention!
watch/timer/alarm
salt per your needs
Here's what you need to do:

Fill your gallon container very fully with clean, treated water. Make sure the water is the same temperature as the water the fish came from in its tank via the thermometer. This prevents temperature shock.
Add the salt per recommendation and stir it until it is fully dissolved.
Get a second container with 1/4 salted water like your 1 gallon tank, and the rest (3/4) with tank water (this is the "reviving station").
Carefully get your fish from its home and gently put it into the water. You must make sure that the fish does not pass out! You can tell if a fish has conked out if it is no longer breathing (look at its gills, by the eyes) or if it lists to the side and becomes still. It may knock out due to the sudden change in salinity (saltiness) of the water, but can be revived.
*If the fish passes out or becomes extremely stressed, remove it! Carefully but hastily put the fish into your reviving station to revive. Then, put it into its home again and try the dip another time.
If the fish is not super stressed and does not pass out, be very attentive during the recommended time in the dip as the fish may jump due to discomfort or stress. Pay close attention to how long the fish has been in the dip and do not exceed the time!
Once the fish is finished, put it into the reviving station to adjust back to more normal water parameters. Then, without pouring the salty water into your tank, put the fish back into its home to recover.


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

Mr Grumpy said:


> Hi
> I was just about to reply when Rainbo did.
> When adding salt make sure you dissolve it in some tank water first.
> 
> ...



That's a dip, it's a bit more harsh on the fish, but may be more effective. I tend to do baths, because I'm afraid to do the dips and completely stress out my fish, the fish can safely be left in the bath so long as they are not reacting negatively to it.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

> Epsom Salt
> 1tsp plain epsom salt per 1 gal of water, 100% new epsom salt water every 24 hours. Keep the fish in the epsom salt water and only remove to put in fresh epsom salt water. Treat for up to 10 days.


So that means that it requires that I remove all the water from the tank and replace it with the salt treated water?

I use 2 containers, and float the one with the fish in the tank to maintain the water temperature. The other one is ready to go when I do the water change.

...Or do I add salt treated water in a container to put in the tank with an additional container ready to use in rotation?

Your help is very valuable.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Oops! Just saw the directions for the salt bath.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

Ok. I’ve given her an Epsom salt bath before. Isn’t it for less than 10 minutes. And about the original tank, do I have to replace the rest of the water due to the residual aquarium salt?


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## Mr Grumpy (Feb 28, 2020)

> do I have to replace the rest of the water due to the residual aquarium salt?


I would.

My suggestion would be to try the Epsom salt bath like Rainbo suggests and no food if that's unsuccessful them we try a dip.


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## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

zmanbb said:


> Ok. I’ve given her an Epsom salt bath before. Isn’t it for less than 10 minutes. And about the original tank, do I have to replace the rest of the water due to the residual aquarium salt?


The difference between a dip and a bath is the amount of salt used, and the time the fish is left in the water. For both of them you do NOT place the epsom salt in the tank, but use a separate container. I mix the water in a jug, fill the container, and discard the unused portion of the water.

For a dip you'd be using 1 TABLEspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water and only have the fish in it for the length of time Mr Grumpy quoted in his post. Here are the instructions for the dip, it also more fully explains the difference uses for aquarium salt and epsom salt Salt Baths

A bath, which is the one I recommended, only uses 1 TEAspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water, and is a bit easier on the fish. The betta can be left in the solution, BUT the solution must be fully changed every 24 hours, and the bath should only be done for 10 days.

Personally I'd remove at least most of the aquarium salt, at those levels I'd not want to leave my betta in the solution long term. It's up so you if you want to keep a little aquarium salt in the tank, some people claim that it helps their betta, I've never tried it and have no desire to do so.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

I’ve changed out another 25% of the water and that’s after changing out 50% of the water. My betta was in her 10 gallon with all that salt for over 24 hours. I’ve must have removed most of it by now.

She’s really tired and looks frazzled. I will do the epsom salt bath in the morning so my betta can have a break. Thank you for your help.


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## zmanbb (Jan 24, 2020)

My betta has made it to another day so far due to the knowledge and applicable aquatic skills if this board. Having anxiety and because of a knee jerk reaction, I started treating her for velvet. This board has been a Godsend. 

Having just giving her a salt bath, the betta seems to be recuperating as the ammonia, last checked was .25ppm before a minor water change. Today will be day two for her treatment. Going to take it easy on her.


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