# Betta not responding to treatments?



## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Hi, I have posted a thread a week or two ago about my male betta. (Link: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=1112187#post1112187 ) I have tried giving him peas and giving him epsom soaks. I have not gotten a result yet. He has been treated with the following:

- Melafix
- Splendid Betta Water Conditioner
- Betta Fix
- QuICK Cure
- Epsom Soak
- Peas
- Fasting

He has been having normal bowel movements. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. He's still swimming around normally and blowing bubble nests. I have also attached a couple more pictures. Is there another way to treat him? Should I just leave him alone for now since he's acting normally? Thank you!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

holy.... How's his poo look? stringy? white? broken? translucent?


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Stringy. Some of it is kind of broken. The color seems to be normal. He's been eating normally.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Try picking up a med with a good amount of metronidazole or praziquantel and mixing it in his food. I think he has internal parasites. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

The QuICK cure supposedly treated parasites. His bulge is translucent. I do see a string floating in there. I let it be since I thought it was his intestines.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I agree with Olympia.

Quick cures, and anything with FIX is more aimed at "everything" than "something". I like things that actually say "ich medicine" and "anti-parasite" only because it is aimed particularily at that one thing. If he still eats, an anti parasite food is best.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks. Is there a certain brand you guys suggest or just anything at the store containing metronidazole or praziquantel? I have been giving him regular pellets and the occasional pea since he refuses to eat anything else (bloodworms, flakes, etc.)


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Metro+ or a product made by seachem both are just the metrodinazole, it's a powder and you can mix it in a bag with food and shake it. 
Not sure about the praziquantel, it's a pretty common ingredient too.
Jungle labs uses metrodinazole in their parasite cure, but if they have the pure stuff I'd take that if you can find it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I'd stop the peas for now, mainly because because it does not digest, it "pushes" everything out. Unfortunately, a parasite blocks the digestive track, causing what you see in your betta - severe bloat differing from SBD. Their bodies may also get very skinny because of lack of nutrition


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you. I have only given him peas once or twice since I suspected constipation and heard it added moisture to his diet. I will pick up the medicine first thing tomorrow and see if that works. Is it safe to use with other antibiotics?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

What are you using currently for antibiotics?


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

At the moment, Melafix and the Quick Cure. I have just finished the 7 day treatment with the Melafix today.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm ok not sure on the quick cure since we don't have it here. Olympia could tell you perhaps =D


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Quick cure by Mardel?
The ingredients I looked up say formalin and malachite green, these are for external parasites and problems and really will be ineffective. You need one of the medications listed earlier, which will kill the internal parasites, preferably fed right to the fish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you. His bulge seems to be filled with fluid though. Should that go away once I treat him with the anti parasitic medicine?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Well the parasite is blocking the digestive track, once it is passed/dies, he should be on the road to recovery. Epsom salt may be needed however to help draw fluid out... If you've used it recently, I'd wait I think about 10-14 days before use.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes, the parasites wouldn't be one solid clump, but lots of tiny things that can move around and look fluidy.
That's so gross sounding. 
He should start pooping out lots of parasites during treatment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mathkid (Sep 15, 2011)

If you do find anti-parasite stuff in a pet store, can you post what you find and where? When I looked, none of the pet stores around me were carrying the Jungle Labs parasite cure food any more (maybe they discontinued it or something?). I could only find medicated flakes at AngelsPlus: http://angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've had to use Jungle Fizz Tabs for internal parasites before, and it did work...


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you guys so much! If I do find it at a local store, I'll post it. I have currently 5 fish stores near me. Hopefully ONE of them should have what I need. Should I change his tank everyday when he starts to poop out the parasites? I've been changing it weekly.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

API General Cure will work too.. But as Olympia said, your best bet is to find metronidazole and mix it with food. If you have a good LFS, they may carry Seache Metro or Hikari HealthAid Metro. Otherwise, you can also ask a veterinary clinic if they will give you a metro tablet to crush up. 

Also, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry no one responded to your last thread.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I would do a daily water change, if anything, just to clean any parasites from the bottom of the tank


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

No problem or hard feelings reguarding my last thread. Thank you all for your help. one more question. I have a couple other bettas. How contgious
are parasites? Should I treat my other bettas as well?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Parasites can be cross-contaminated pretty easiy if you use the same gravel vac or nets with all of your bettas. However, there's a good chance your other bettas already have those parasites anyway. A lot of these disgusting critters are always in our fish tanks and our fish. It's only when a fish is stressed or his immune system is somehow weakened that the parasites can take hold and multiply. 

If your other bettas are acting normal, you can take a watch-and-wait approach. Otherwise, you can use the same medication (metronidazole) with them as well as a preventative.


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## roadrunner (Apr 3, 2010)

poor guy, I hope he will feel better soon.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I agree with Sakura. My one female had parasites - in the sorority - no one else showed signs but I treated them anyways and quarantined her  So far so good =D


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Okay, thank you again! I'm on my way to picking up the Metro Plus at my local fish store. It is in stock. Here is the link if anybody needs it: 
http://www.delawarefishstore.com/


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

THAT'S your fish store?! Holy moly that place looks like heaven! O-O
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

-waiting for it to load- I WANNA SEE!!! D: 


holy... o_o lucky. lol


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*moving to Delaware*


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ha ha. I'm pretty sure you can order things online.  If the medicine is powder, how would I mix it with pelllets?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

hahaha!! xD

I think powder you add a little water to, to soak food in?


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Duh! I wasn't thinking. Lol! They have both brands here. The Jungle Labs and the Metro Plus. The Metro plus is the superioir right?


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Okay, I have the Metro Plus and the PraziPro. I'm planning on trying the metro plus first. Is this safe to do with bettas?
http://uskoi.com/med_feed_-_dry.htm


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

that I would not know about, someone else needs to hop in LOL!


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Haha, okay. It says to use 95% alcohol. I have 91%. To or if anybody hops in, is this safe?


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

I've never heard of anyone using alcohol, mainly because alcohol is made to either euthanise, or preserve.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Here's the best way to make medicated food. Mix a bit of the powder in some tank water, just enough water to make things moist. You want it to be a paste. Coat some of his pellets in this paste and let it dry a little. Then feed. Don't make too many medicated pellets ahead of time, though. Just enough for the day. 

He may (probably) find the taste objectionable so you might want to add some garlic juice to the tank water that you mix the powder in.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Well, you are right. He thinks the medicine is disgusting. I'm thinking he did get some of the medicine since he did put the pellets in his mouth before spitting them out?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hopefully, yeah. Reminds me of when I give my cat pills. Even if he doesn't actually swallow them, I hope that enough medicine dissolves in his mouth during my attempts that he gets some.

Try garlic juice and lots of it. You can use the juice from a jar of preminced garlic or you can mince your own garlic and then mix it with a bit of tank water. Alternatively, you can see if your awesome LFS has Seachem GarlicGuard, which makes things a lot easier.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the medicine is doing something. But I don't think it's good. His bulge has actually gotten bigger and he's starting to have these little panic attacks and spasms. Is this because his body is trying to kick out the parasites or something?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It could be. :/ The parasites may be reacting to the meds and moving around/dying. If he continues to show distress, stop the medicated food. Instead, add the metro directly to the water as per instructions on the container.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Oooo imagine an upset tummy ;(


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Ouch. Must suck since he's so full of em. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

The spasming has lessoned. However, he is not eating the food. Even if garlic juice is present. Is there another way to get him to eat the medicated food?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Try medicating bloodworms if you can work that out properly. Not sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

I know this sounds crazy, but he won't eat bloodworms. I've coated the pellets with the meds and garlic water. He still keeps on spitting them out. The pellets also sink to the bottom. Is this normal? Should I put less meds on the pellet?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If he won't eat the pellets, it's best to discontinue the food and medicate the water so he gets some medication. 

Fill a jug or something like that with 5 cups of dechlorinated water. Add 1/2 tsp of the metronidazole powder and mix. Now add 1/2 cup of this mixture per gallon to his tank. So if his tank is 2 gallons, add 1 cup. If it's 1 gallon, add 1/2 cup. Change the water every day and redose the meds for however long it takes for him to purge the worms.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

UPDATE (6/29/12): 

He has gotten worse after all the treatments for parasites. ): I have uploaded more updated pictures and his bloating is bigger. Any other treatments I can do for him? Thank you!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm really sorry to say that I think he has a tumor. With updated pics, I can see that his bloating is now characteristic of a tumor, especially how he is so grossly bloated just under his belly and not all over. If this is indeed the case then there is not much that can be done except to make him comfortable. You can continue to keep him in 3 tsps of epsom salt for the duration of his life to help make things easier. Provide a shallow tank with lots of plants to perch in. I'm really sorry.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

): Is there any chance it could be anything else? He is still acting normal besides swiming oddly as shown in updated picture 1. What can I do to prevent my other bettas from getting this?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That he's acting pretty normally makes it seem more likely that it is a tumor or growth. If it were parasites or fluid buildup from a bacterial infection, he would be feeling pretty crummy and it would show in his behavior.  Also, if it was fluid buildup from an infection, the bloating would be throughout his whole body, not just localized right where it is. If you could find a fish vet, you might be able to have an x-ray done or a biopsy but I'm not sure. Those kind of specialized fish vets are few and far between.

If it is indeed a tumor then it won't be contagious to your other fish. 

I'm really sorry. You can ask OFL to look at the pics and see what she thinks. She has had experience with some diseases and conditions that I haven't so she might be able to offer a more positive second opinion. *hopeful*


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Okay, thank you. Would I contact her by sending her a private message? Sorry, I'm still trying to figure things out on the site.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, although I can direct her your way if you'd like.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes, please. Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay. She probably won't get on until the morning. I'll go ahead and send her a message.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Okay, thank you again!


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Awww sorry to hear  I agree seeing the head on picture, does look like it...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry you are having problems....poor fella.....since you have tried everything and nothing has helped....It most likely is tumor related and not a lot we can do about that except make him comfy.....

Shallow water so he doesn't have to struggle to swim to the surface, Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and a tannin source...this will make him as comfy as possible....Dim lit quiet location.......Sometimes we have to make the hard choice of doing what is best for him when all else has failed......

Sorry I couldn't be of more help....


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

UPDATE (7/18/12): He is now starting to act sick. ): He now just sits at the bottom, breathing heavily. He is being treated with epsom salts to make him comfortable. Thank you for helping me, everyone. I think these are his last days. ):


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

So sorry but its so good you are making him as comfortable as possible. There is so much love for our Bettas here does the heart good but breaks also when we lose one.
Best of wishes for you and your little guy !


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  You really have done all you can to help the little guy and make his days as comfortable as can be so be proud of yourself. You are a good betta owner.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words. Surprisingly, he's still hanging on. He can't swim to the the top of his tank (I put him in a more shallow tank to help him out). I was wondering how shallow can I make his water? I don't want him to suffocate from lack of oxygen or lack of water.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Being a betta, he will never suffocate from lack of oxygen in the water. He CAN, however, literally drown if he can't reach the surface so you did a good thing by making it easier for him to swim up. As for lack of water . . . he'll do fine in virtually any volume of water; the catch is the less water, the more often you need to change it. If he's in less than a half gallon, I would say 100% change every day.

What a little fighter.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks. I have been changing him extremely often anyway. His water becomes very foggy if I don't change it every other day in his 3.5 gallon tank. He can't really move at all anymore. He sometimes flops on his side, breathing VERY heavily. It scares me sometimes. He's been fighting to get to the top for breath and I think he's giving up. I tried giving him more plants he can perch in at the top but he's so big he doesn't really fit anymore. Is it possible he can drown at the bottom? Should I put him in something more shallow?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It is possible that any sick betta will eventually become too weak to make it to the surface no matter how shallow we make their water.  You can lower his water level down till it's just barely covering him if he needs it that low. Otherwise, just keep lowering it inch by inch as he needs it. You're really doing a great job with him and taking such awesome care of him. He's a lucky betta to have someone who loves him so much.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you. One more question. His ammonia levels have sky rocketed. I have put him in a very small container due to him possibly drowning. I wrapped a heat pack around his container to keep his temp up and have been doing regular tests. I have also been doing 100% water changes daily. He was fine a couple days ago. I don't know what I did wrong.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Because the container is small, it may need twice daily changes. Also, he may be exerting himself more trying to reach the surface, thus breathing harder and excreting more ammonia through his gills. You didn't do anything wrong.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Update (8-2-12): 

Surprisingly, he's still hanging on. His behaviour has significantly gotten better. He is now swimming around (still with difficulty), making bubble nests, trying to flare, etc. I suppose the epsom salts are working? His bulge has not gotten better. I think it's even bigger. He sometimes flips almost upside down since his bulge weighs him down so much. He flipped all the way upside down when I tried to put him in a bigger tank. I feel bad about having him in such a small container. Do you have any suggestions?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

My goodness, what a little fighter he is! 

Since depth seems to be a factor, it's possible you could put him into a bigger tank that is long but only filled halfway so it's shallow. Provide lots of plants and places for him to prop himself up and make sure he can always easily reach the surface.

This gives me hope because two of my girls now have tumors. Now I know they CAN survive for a while with them.

You're doing a fantastic job caring for him, cjz.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Awww, good luck with your girls. I hope they are feeling better. 
I just tried to put him in a bigger tank, filling it 1/3 of the way and he just flops to his side. I had to put him back in the little walmart container he came in. ): I was thinking about euthanizing him since he flops over all the time and getting even bigger...but he's acting more normal than he has been for a while. Weird but good . Maybe the epsom salts?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

That's just the crazy thing. You'd think they'd be miserable blown up like Macy's parade balloons but they seem just fine except for not being able to swim right.  

The epsom salts are probably helping to leach extra fluids out of his system so he doesn't get dropsy on top of his tumor. 

As for euthanization, it's your call. You know him best so you'll know when he's reached his limit. If that time comes and you need advice/help, don't hesitate to ask. We'll walk you through it.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thank you. I first thought the flopping was SBD. I can't really tell because of the bulge. Here is an updated pic. Could he possibly have SBD on top of the tumor? He flops less in the little walmart cup i currently have him in.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oh yes, he definitely could have SBD because of the tumor. What's probably happening is the tumor is so large it's pushing into his swimbladder, causing him to have less control of it. 

He looks . . . wow. And you say he acts normal aside from the flopping?  Wow. 

One thing I'm a bit worried about now that I've seen a pic is eventual damage to his spine. You can see how the tumor forces his head up at a weird angle. Keep an eye out for signs that his spine is being affected, such as sudden paralysis or a pronounced dip in it. 

You are doing an AWESOME job taking care of the little guy. He's so very lucky to have you as his owner.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

I did notice the spine problem a while ago. It looks a little crooked. It was when he actually started acting sick. I was seriously thinking about puting him down. Then a couple weeks ago, he started eating and making bubble nests again. He also stopped the weird heavy breathing. I can't bring myself to put him down if he's acting normal. Minus the flopping and tipping. He seems to like the little cup i have him in because he wedges his buldge in the corner so he doesn't tip.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I completely understand; euthanization is not an easy decision to make. If he's making bubblenests then he feels relatively healthy. A sick betta usually doesn't feel like nesting. If he seems like he can swim and breathe and eat and he doesn't seem to be in discomfort, then I don't see why you can't just let nature take his course. Bettas with tumors can live comfortably for quite some time.


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

Here are a couple update pics, huge improvement from the last two above:


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He looks like an antirely different fish! *dances jig of joy*


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

I am hoping in the next couple of weeks he will be completely healed. It looks like he has craters in his bulge since it is deflating so fast. Weird. Thank you again! I will update once he looks completey healed.


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## GaspeGirl (Oct 21, 2011)

Oh my gosh! That is nothing short of amazing! It is an inspiration! Congrats on being such a committed owner!


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## cjz96 (Jun 10, 2012)

GaspeGirl said:


> Oh my gosh! That is nothing short of amazing! It is an inspiration! Congrats on being such a committed owner!


Thank you!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

wooooooooaaahhhhh that's the most ginormous bloat I've ever seen! 
Im glad it's gone down so much!
Good job!


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## lelei (Apr 30, 2012)

_The true power of TLC..He looks soo much better, that is so amazing, you are such an inspiration..I am so glad to see such incredible improvement, Keep up the great work_


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