# lilnaugrim's Ally and Alloy (HMPK MG)



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

A while ago lilnaugrim sent me this lovely pair to breed, since I have a lot of free time and she doesn't.

Alloy, the male:









Ally, the female:









The first time they spawned (technically second, since lil had made an attempt previously), they had a lot of trouble wrapping and not many eggs were produced. After Alloy trimmed them down, only 5 fry hatched. I took them out to recondition the pair and four of those fry have survived to 2 weeks. Three are dark and one is lighter.

Hatched 8/31, photos taken at 2 weeks:



























For the second breeding attempt, I fed them each a little less during conditioning to make wrapping easier. (He is bigger than her, but she was very plump with eggs the first time.) Once they got the hang of it they produced a nice pile of eggs, but again Alloy ate most of them. No idea if they were unfertilized or just tasty. He left about 20 of them to hatch and those fry are now 8 days old.

Just after hatching, 9/8:









No current photos of these guys, but all week-old fry look the same anyway.


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be here, waiting for some updates and more pictures ;-)


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

yessss these will be some incredible babies!


----------



## dannifluff (Jul 5, 2015)

Subbing, looking forward to the outcome.


----------



## Lilypad (Oct 15, 2014)

Nice, I'm excited to see how these guys turn out. Beautiful parents!


----------



## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Hope Alloy stops snacking on eggs and gives you a better spawn yeild next attempt. Look forward to seeing the fry color up!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yeah, I'm considering either artificially hatching next time, or leaving the female in instead. She's shown signs of a good maternal instinct - helped retrieve eggs during spawning, plus before the first spawning she released some eggs on her own and tried her best to keep them in her own mini-nest. But neither of these methods will help if the problem was improperly fertilized eggs. If they were fertilized, would he have decided to spare just 5 eggs the first time?

The good part is neither of them did very much damage to the other. They seemed to prefer wiggling at each other to actually making contact. I think the many, many failed wrapping attempts actually did more damage (a few bumped up scales on Ally) than the courtship.


----------



## BettaSplendid (Jul 12, 2015)

Gorgeous! Plakats must be my favorite-they make me happy just seeing pictures of them! Love.

I was wondering, and I hope this isn't rude or wrong to ask, but when someone sees babies here and wants one, is it wrong to ask if you can buy one? Is it done through pm? Do members ever post their babies (once bigger) for sale? What do you do with all the babies? Are they sold locally or on ebay?


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Not rude at all! I haven't sold any of my babies yet but I will definitely offer them here first when they are ready. It'll be a while for these guys! But in general, yeah, ebay, local fish stores, aquabid, maybe local fish clubs.

Batch 2 doesn't seem to be growing quite as fast as batch 1, probably because batch 1 has an easier time finding the food in the tiny container I have them in. Makes me want to try artificial hatching just so I have all the fry where I can see them.


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow, those are gorgeous fish! I can't wait to see how the babies color up.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

YES!!!! I'm so happy!!! :-D

Do you leave a light on at night for Alloy? I found that helps to curve the egg-eating instinct they have to protect their young when they can't see (of course, it ends up being counterproductive when they eat them :roll.

EDIT: One of the best birthday presents!! I'm so happy :-D :redyay:


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, the first time I used room lighting, second time I left the bright tank light on. Didn't seem to matter to him.

Yesterday I spotted the start of ventrals on batch 1.

Happy birthday!!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah okay. I know you've bred before so I kind of figured as much, just checking ^_^

Thank you! :-D


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

So, I'm pretty bad at counting...










73 fry in batch 2, not 20. Maybe I don't need a third spawn. Then again, about half of them are still teeny tiny at 11 days old, and I may have traumatized them pretty badly by scooping them all out into this tupperware.

In other news, I just spilled the entire contents of my brine shrimp hatchery on myself/my carpet.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Batch 1 is 3 weeks old.




























Batch 2 is 2 weeks old tomorrow and survived the move to their new quarters just fine.










Also, check out Ally's sweet ladybeard:


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Both batches of fry are looking nice and healthy. 

I love when they are at that age/size when they start looking like little fish.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Me too LBF! So darn adorable!!! I am so happy that Ally was able to be bred ^^ she's such a good looking girl!!!


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Woooow! So stunning!


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Look at her tiny beard! 

The fry look nice, too. I hope some of them have their dame's coloring! She is gorgeous!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

This pairing should produce a fair amount of MGs, though Alloy does have the marble gene so some crazy patterns may pop up.

I stole this photo of a younger Alloy from lilnaugrim's journal:










The photos don't show it well but Ally is a darker blue in real life, it's just the flash that makes her look green.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

such beautiful babies!


----------



## wildmountainthyme (Jul 13, 2015)

Really pretty! will love to see them when they color up!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Red fins? Where did that come from? (Also poop.)










No red on the other three 4.5 weekers.










Batch 2 is 3.5 weeks:


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Cuties!


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

So sparkly!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Batches 1 and 2 are now swimming together in a 10g. I'm feeding BBS, grindal worms, moina, and an unidentified larger daphnia (started the culture from a single organism that had found it's way into the bag with some fish that I purchased). Oh and some Ken's growth meal.



















The largest fry from batch 1 with one of the smaller fry from batch 2. Looks like the big fry got Ally's nice dorsal.









Red-finned fry:









Tank:


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm loving that nice dorsal!


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah! That big one is going to be beautiful!!! Looks like a little girl to me :-D


----------



## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

So beautiful!

This may seem silly but I just love the way the plants look! It seems very comforting, since the fry can hide and take coverage in it!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Haha thanks, I try to spread out the guppy grass but the filter blows it into that clump.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

So does anyone have an explanation for the red popping up in the fry? Several of the batch 2 fry are starting to develop red fins as well. Does this mean Alloy's yellow wash isn't "real" yellow? Should I expect them to lose the red when they grow up?


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Because alloy was a monster, he holds the marble gene, expect the unexpected. They may have red loss but I doubt it.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Update on the four fry from batch 1:

Fry 1 is developing yellow in the fins, but has a bit of red in the ventrals.









Fry 2 (the one that was light-bodied) is cellophane, for now.









Fry 3 is going through some awkward marbling.









Fry 4 is blue and red.









The younger fry have been growing slowly because these guys were eating all their food, so batch 1 is now jarred.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

loving the variety <3


----------



## dcg (Nov 5, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> but again Alloy ate most of them. No idea if they were unfertilized or just tasty.


I LOL-ed at that one.  I am wondering too from where did the red wash come into play. Also, stunning female.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I love the little marbling one!! So adorable!


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

They're gorgeous even if they aren't what you're working for.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yeah I don't really mind, this is more interesting than a tank full of mustard gas plakats would be!


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Looking good! I especially love the first boy!


----------



## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

kittenfish said:


> So does anyone have an explanation for the red popping up in the fry? Several of the batch 2 fry are starting to develop red fins as well. Does this mean Alloy's yellow wash isn't "real" yellow? Should I expect them to lose the red when they grow up?


From memory I think there were 3 types of yellow and crossing between the types usually won't give all yellow and will act as red instead


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

So this spawn produced a crazy mixed bag of fish, not one of which is a blue-yellow bicolor. The ones that seemed to be develping yellow actually ended up orange, many with dalmation spots. I also got some cello-marbles, black-orange bicolors, blue-red bicolors, marble blacks, and this guy with the cutest red head blush:










Though in the past week his yellow pigment has started to concentrate into patches, leaving the rest of his body lighter:










So I'm excited to see how his color develops.

The big guy from batch one is now in a 5 gallon tank because he kind of outgrew his cup. Horrible picture of him:










Black and orange guy that I really like, might be keeping him:










(Don't worry, he has eyeballs, just the flash)

Others from the spawn:

















































































(Showing off his crazy ventral)

Sale thread coming soon...


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Holy wow!! Those oranges are amazing!!! I adore that black marble girl in the middle there! Can't wait to see the sale thread!!!


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow, what a gorgeous batch of fish! I love the one at the top of the "others from the spawn" list.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks! Many of them are still growing at 5.5 months, so they won't be up for sale until they reach their full fabulousness. I left them together in their growout tank much longer than probably recommended - in fact, some less aggressive males still haven't been jarred - so their finnage especially is still developing. I need to free up some jar space!


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Opinions on these two as potential breeders? If I decide to continue this line I want to breed my nicest male back to Ally, mostly for form. These guys are still small (like 1 inch long bodies) so it won't be for a while.

Male 1:










Dorsal is wide enough, but could be taller. Anal comes to a nice sharp point. You can't see the ventrals well but they are not split, which is important since Ally's are. Caudal hasn't really started branching yet so I can't judge that, but I think it's a nice shape. Good body shape, with just the slightest head bump that may fill in.

Male 2:










Obviously I am biased towards this color combo. Dorsal does reach his caudal when flaring (same fish as the really dark photo I posted above) and is taller than male 1's. Anal might come out a little wonky. Caudal and ventrals have a nice shape. Peduncle a little weak.


----------



## InStitches (May 26, 2014)

gorgeous boys! I vote for boy #1 

Gorgeous colors.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Depends on what style of PK you're going for. Male #1 is more of an Asymmetrical HMPK whereas #2 is more of a Trad PK. I believe Ally came from a spawn that was more Asymmetrical HMPK so you'd likely get better form with the first male. Also, look at the rays. The first male has beautiful webbing spread (could be more so but darn good so far!) and he has a solid two rays all the way around which is very desirable! The second male has a couple random rays in there so he's much messier than the first male but darn, those vents are beautiful!


----------



## Sadist (Jan 1, 2015)

I like #1 better, too, but we'll see how they change as they grow up. I like the pointed anal and the better caudal rays. Some things may change as they mature, so it may still be a wait and see game! they're gorgeous!


----------



## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Sorry for digging this thread up, but do you have any of the fry left? If I can get my supplies together sooner then later, I may be interested in a male from either this batch or the F2.


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, I have a marketplace thread (here). All fish whose numbers start with "A" are from this spawn. You can also find some of my fish on aquabid under the same username. Cheaper here though


----------



## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

kittenfish said:


> Yes, I have a marketplace thread (here). All fish whose numbers start with "A" are from this spawn. You can also find some of my fish on aquabid under the same username. Cheaper here though


Ah okay  I'll be sure to check it out!


----------



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Hope some will develope to be like the father, i love how Alloy looks, so badass!! Lol


----------



## kittenfish (Dec 1, 2013)

I hope so too! I haven't seen any with scales like his yet, but from my other spawns I know it can take a long time, like 7+ months, for thick iridescence like that to develop.


----------



## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, Alloy didn't start off that way, he looked a normal turquoise monster fish and then one day he just started to develop those really thick patches and went with it! So yeah, he was definitely at least 5-ish months of age at that point ^_^


----------

