# Live Plant Novice



## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

I want to do live plants for the first time, I'll list my soon-to-be set up. Any and all advice and suggestions extremely welcomed! Thanks!

10 gallon tank
*Floramax T8 Fluorescent Lamp* 15 Watt

Is *CaribSea® FloraMax™ Planted Aquarium Substrate* or *Seachem Flourite Plant Substrate* better as a substrate?

Then which plant food Flourish brand or Aqueon?

Easiest beginner plants? (other than java (I don't have any locally))

Am I forgetting anything?

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/download/?asset=/assets/016/28594.jpg&name=FM18IN.jpg


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## darkangel216 (Jan 27, 2010)

Anubias are good beginner plants. Just make sure you don't stick the the rhizome beneath the gravel.


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## HayrideHaunter (Dec 20, 2010)

i just started with live too...hope you don't mind me asking a question...I have an anubias...whats a rhizome and why cant it be under gravel?


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## darkangel216 (Jan 27, 2010)

The rhizome is the thick part where the stems and roots come out of. This has to be out of the gravel, otherwise it could die.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

^ Yes, it needs to be or it suffocates/ cant get nutrients.

I cant help much on the gravel, but the two fertilizers are both very good. Pick which makes the most sense cost-wise, and is a better bang for the buck (for example, its 1mL/gallon for Aqueon, a good bang for the buck. Idk what flourish's is.)

I have a thread about easy peasy plants:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=67565&highlight=plant+guide

All are easy as pie, save for the swords, which need a bit more care.


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## HayrideHaunter (Dec 20, 2010)

oh alright...thanks! mine has that part out of the gravel, i just pressed the roots themselves under the gravel a little...had it for about 5 days and already the roots have grown ...thanks!


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Okay so if I end of getting the Floramax substrate, what do I need lighting wise? My hood fits 2 individual bulbs instead of a strip light...


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Use flouresant lights. I really love the brand I use, from walmart, called lights of america. Its in the pet section and is around $5, 10 w and tubular and 6500k, which its great for plants


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

thanks. i've never seen that brand of lights before. sure its in the pet area? or could it also be in household lighting? thanks!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Ive only seen it in the pet section at mine. Its labeled for aquariums


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Hmm I'll have to take a closer look next time. Is there a length of time I need to wait before adding plants? I put in the Floramax substrate yesterday (pretty cloudy) but it's cleared up nice this morning. How long, or do I need to wait before adding plants? Also which plants should I start with and when do I add the Flourish liquid fertilizer?


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

puppyrjjkm said:


> Hmm I'll have to take a closer look next time. Is there a length of time I need to wait before adding plants? I put in the Floramax substrate yesterday (pretty cloudy) but it's cleared up nice this morning. How long, or do I need to wait before adding plants? Also which plants should I start with and when do I add the Flourish liquid fertilizer?


Ive never used that substrate, so as long as you've done what the directions say, I would add the plants in now, why not? 

I'd say all of them. Arrange them per their lighting needs while keeping aesthetics in mind.

Maybe wait a day or two to add in the flourish. After that, do the doseage per directions, unless the tank is VERY heavily planted. You should be golden!

Keep your lights on (if florescent) for about 8 hours the first few days. Increase then to about 10 hours, which is a good photoperiod, as said by OFL and what I usually end up doing with great results. Adjust to 11 hours and then to 12 if you can/ want to- though be careful to monitor algae growth.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Okay great. I actually have one plant that wasn't doing too well from another tank in there now. But I won't get most of my plants till wed/thurs just wanted to make sure I didn't need to wait longer. The tank is in a very dark room in the basement so I will be leaving the lights on the majority of the time. Anything else I need to know or should be aware of? It seems like once you have the lighting and good fertilizer it's almost fool-proof? Haha


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

mostly


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

alright sounds good. thanks so much for your help and promt responses!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> Use flouresant lights. I really love the brand I use, from walmart, called lights of america. Its in the pet section and is around $5, 10 w and tubular and 6500k, which its great for plants


Are you talking about the 10 watt mini CFL lamps. If so, they work great. I have those over two of my tanks at the moment and I love them.

As far as adding plants. Add them as soon as you get them. There really is no waiting period and they will help the tank cycle. Good luck.

P.S. - When it comes to lighting, fish like it like we like it. The sun (light) comes up at around the same time every morning and the sun (light) goes down the same time every night. The part of the world that these fish are from see 12 hours of sunlight and 12 hours of dark almost year round. There a few summer months where it will be 14 hours light, and 10 hours dark, but it is best to stick with the 12 on/12 off time frame.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

^ Thats what I do. I eased into a 12hr period over a week or two though, because I had a bit of algae flare up when it went from 10 to 12 too fast.

Go at your own pace and monitor it to see how your tank reacts,and adjust as needed 

And yeah- and those lights great? I never wouldve thought. And walmart of all places. Hah!


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

PewPewPew said:


> ^ Thats what I do. I eased into a 12hr period over a week or two though, because I had a bit of algae flare up when it went from 10 to 12 too fast.
> 
> Go at your own pace and monitor it to see how your tank reacts,and adjust as needed
> 
> And yeah- and those lights great? I never wouldve thought. And walmart of all places. Hah!


+1. Don't rush things too fast. Patience is key in this hobby.

And, I was quite surprised at those lights. I have one on my 2.5 gallon, and it is growing HC like you wouldn't believe.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I know! Walmart, youre oh so full of surprises ;P


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

In addition to the previous light suggestion, I'm having some good luck with the NOVAExtreme Freshwater light, which is on Amazon for roughly 60 dollars or so. 

As for plants, still a beginner too - but I'm having great success with Baby Dwarf Tears (Fixed to a piece of driftwood), Bacopa Australis (Looks beautiful once it's grown!) and Dwarf Hairgrass. 

Here's a good site to check out the lighting, care requirements and whether or not it's a true aquatic: www.FloridaAquatics.com I've found it to be the most accurate and well-maintained site, although the pictures don't always do them grace.


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

Nexangelus said:


> In addition to the previous light suggestion, I'm having some good luck with the NOVAExtreme Freshwater light, which is on Amazon for roughly 60 dollars or so.
> 
> As for plants, still a beginner too - but I'm having great success with Baby Dwarf Tears (Fixed to a piece of driftwood), Bacopa Australis (Looks beautiful once it's grown!) and Dwarf Hairgrass.
> 
> Here's a good site to check out the lighting, care requirements and whether or not it's a true aquatic: www.FloridaAquatics.com I've found it to be the most accurate and well-maintained site, although the pictures don't always do them grace.


I have heard good things on that type of light fixture. And good one on the site.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Hey PewPew:

I purchased 2 GE daylight 6500k bulbs 26 W. Since my light max on my hood was 25 I thought it'd be fine. But the top of my hood gets extremely hot. Should I switch to the same bulb but 20 W? Will it do the same thing for the plants since they're both 6500k? And is Flourish liquid supplement supposed to smell funny? It had a very deep mineral smell.. I just didn't know if it could expire. thanks

i just did some research and saw that those "household" lights generally do well with plants, so I went with those and totally spaced to look at the fish ones.


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> I have heard good things on that type of light fixture. And good one on the site.


Whoops, I typed that wrong. I'm assuming the latter comment was sarcasm? Here's the actual link. http://www.floridaaquatic.com/


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Puppy, If it's getting real hot (and not just warm) I would definitely say change the bulb. Last thing you want is to come home to see your fish boiling in the water. 

And funny thing, I just picked up some flourish comprehensive today too. Apparently it's supposed to smell like soy sauce and look like motor oil. Quite odd, but you're in the clear. Not rotten, not defective. Just a smelly product. 

Additionally, does anyone else LOVE the smell of that Flourish Excel fertilizer? Something about it drives me wild... I'm actually excited to dose it every day just so I can smell it. I think I may have a problem....


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Everything Seachem smells bad...Hah, prime, flourish...LOL!

I think you do have a problem, lol!

Yeah- take that bulb out. Swap for the lower wattage, and aim for the minimum 5500K to 6500k-8000k range  Household (i assume you mean the CFLs) are fine. I cant use them because my good lights are fickle and wussy, but ah well! They're usually pretty cheap, too- check out on occasion for sales and coupons going on and stock up- bulbs should be replaced every errhghhh 6-8 months or if theyre dimming (depending on the bulb). I think in Vermont right now they're having a $1 all CFL bulb sale. Many states do this as a green initiative, so keep an ear out!

AND HOLY EXPENSIVE LIGHTS. I dont think Id drop $60 for a light...Even if it grew my plants well D:


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## cableguy69846 (Apr 19, 2011)

puppyrjjkm said:


> Hey PewPew:
> 
> I purchased 2 GE daylight 6500k bulbs 26 W. Since my light max on my hood was 25 I thought it'd be fine. But the top of my hood gets extremely hot. Should I switch to the same bulb but 20 W? Will it do the same thing for the plants since they're both 6500k? And is Flourish liquid supplement supposed to smell funny? It had a very deep mineral smell.. I just didn't know if it could expire. thanks
> 
> i just did some research and saw that those "household" lights generally do well with plants, so I went with those and totally spaced to look at the fish ones.


Swap out the light for sure. If you keep running the wattage too high, it will eventually harm your fixture. And the flourish is just all around smelly.



Nexangelus said:


> Whoops, I typed that wrong. I'm assuming the latter comment was sarcasm? Here's the actual link. http://www.floridaaquatic.com/


Actually, I did find some useful things on the other link. But this one is much better.



Nexangelus said:


> Puppy, If it's getting real hot (and not just warm) I would definitely say change the bulb. Last thing you want is to come home to see your fish boiling in the water.
> 
> And funny thing, I just picked up some flourish comprehensive today too. Apparently it's supposed to smell like soy sauce and look like motor oil. Quite odd, but you're in the clear. Not rotten, not defective. Just a smelly product.


+1.



PewPewPew said:


> Everything Seachem smells bad...Hah, prime, flourish...LOL!
> 
> I think you do have a problem, lol!
> 
> ...


+1 on the bulb replacement. Usually the light will still be giving off good light, but not the light the plants need. After about 6 months that part of the light is burned out.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks guys. It's been running for about 5 hrs now and temp has stayed constant and the hood isn't as hot as I initially thought (overreacted a tad  but I'll keep a close eye on it to make sure it doesn't get any warmer  

Plant update: bought amazon sword, wisteria, anacharis, elodea, and hornwort, had 1 moss ball. It all fills the tank very nicely. The hornwort is floating but all others are buried in substrate, is this right? The amazon sword is very large and was potted so I buried the pot in the substrate.. do I need to take it out of the pot and plant directly into the substrate? Also I got quite a bit of hornwort will it floating block light getting to the other substrate plants?

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Good to hear! Could it have been the sun shining through a curtain or something of the sort causing the heat? I'd check it every hour if I were you. Heat is one thing you don't want to mess with. It'll kill your plants and fish in no time at all. 

Awesome choice in plants. You should have no problem at all turning your tank into a living jungle. I'm not sure if you mentioned a planted tank substrate, but getting one will greatly increase growth. Additionally, Seachem makes root tabs that are relatively inexpensive and have done wonders for my plant's growth.

As for the amazon sword, planting it in-pot is not the best idea. I'm not certain whether or not you're referring to a terracotta pot or a plastic one with rock wool, but I'd advise against planting in either, as it will greatly hinder the growth and possibly kill the plant. Generally, bare-root is the best way to go, especially with heavy root feeders. 

Oh, and have you considered a foreground/carpeting plant? Check google images for Dwarf Hairgrass Carpets, Microsword Carpets and Glossostigma (Elatanoids) carpets. Looks like the majority of your plants are mid/background.

So those would be my recommendations... Substrate, Root tabs, possibly a carpet plant and maybe an external thermometer just so you're not guessing whether or not the lighting is slowly roasting your tank.

Also, I'm just getting started, but I'm seeing HUGE growth even in just a few days. This keeps up, I'll be over-run. Shipping plants is pretty easy and inexpensive, so I'd be glad to mail you some once I have to cull the plants. Also working on some dwarf baby tear covered driftwood pieces. They spread like wildfire and look great. I'll take some pictures later.

As a final thought, look into purchasing some Amano Shrimp. They're algae eating machines and keep all your plants clean and healthy. I bought some today and was amazed at how quick their bellies were dark green - I couldn't even see any algae!


(Sorry for the skewed nature of this post. I'm a bit on the sleep deprived side right now, with finals coming up. Hopefully you get the general jist though!


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

That's all extremely helpful Nexangelus! I did purchase the Carib-Sea Floramax substrate which makes the water very cloudy when stirred up but otherwise appears to be a good plant substrate. I'll definitely go un-pot the sword while I clean the tank up a tad today. I plan on dividing it for 2 male bettas since we're getting halfmoons at my petsmart 

Other than that there is no sunlight hitting the tank (it's in my room in the basement which is extremely dark) but temp is staying about 77-78. I would LOVE some sort of carpeting plant but unfortunately up in Montana we don't have a large array of live plants, the ones I have are about as "fancy" as they get haha and I didn't really want to fork out $20-30 in shipping to get plants from like liveaquaria, etc. Although I would LOVE to take a few plants off yours hands eventually  I really like the covered driftwood as well. I bought 2 pieces at my LFS which will be on each side of the tank. If this keeps up I'll want to switch my 2 other tanks to live plants. Thanks so much for all your help! I'll post some pics once I have it all to my liking! Could you post some pics of your tank?


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

That's the problem with most flora substrates... Even the most minor change in plant location stirs up a dust storm. Not very fun for those of us who are OCD about perfect placement! 

Just wanted to double check on the light. I had a problem where I thought the fixture itself was getting too hot, when in actuality, some heat and light was seeping through my curtain and warming it up.

Have you talked to your LFS about ordering plants? I work at my LFS store and generally we have a pretty limited selection of plants as well. However, I don't think we're unique in special ordering plants/fish by request. Try asking about it... Maybe they'll add what you're looking for to the next order. Who knows, it may speed things along if they notice there's an interest in plants. 

I'm very surprised that shipping is that much. I'm assuming they must go all-out and package them in water, insulation and overnight shipping for that price. When they arrive in our store (after standard shipping, mind you) they're potted in soaked rock wool and separated with newspaper... No way that costs 20-30 dollars. Makes me think LiveAquaria's shipping is a bit unnecessary rather shady. 

Point being, I'm sure I can mail them for under 10 dollars, and I'm not interested in any sort of payment. I have runners after 3 days, so I'm guessing it won't take as long as you think for my tank to get overgrown. My parrotgrass has already grown about 3 inches in that time, haha. 

I'll take some pictures in a little bit, after I finish up my final exam for class. Sure hope I can see yours, too! Aren't planted tanks a blast? I find them so rewarding... Plus, it's much more beautiful than plastic skeletons and poly-resin pirate ships for decor!


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

I don't know if someone else posted but: Java Moss is a good one!


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Neil, I'm not sure how well java moss would work given he's running 5 watts per gallon. I've had varying experiences with it, but I've always understood that it "melted" under high light - and his tank definitely fits that description.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

I agree- Neil, java moss likes a tank on the darker side, as does java fern (which prefers medium or lower light or to be under the canopy of other plants), or itll get gross and melt.

And I DO mean gross, you have no idea D; (Thanks kindly to my bf, who managed to murder all of mine by keeping it in direct sunlight for the entire day..sigh!)

Btw puppy (lol! <3) You can* bury the hornwort, though they wont grow roots. Take off the first few bunches of nettles and tether it into the ground with either a mound of gravel or a rock, better yet. I liked to strip the bottoms, tie a bunch together with string or fishing line, and then wedge it between some kind of decor or rock and hide my filter with it! (Be careful with it getting close to heaters, though...mine threw a FIT when it was placed by it -__-)

It does look very good floating, though~


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Oh Thats what I get for posting with out reading thoroughly!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Its ok!


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Pew - Java fern lighting is quite divided in terms of what people think works best. Some say low light, others say moderate-high. Personally, I've grown it under both. I've seen the best growth out of high-light, but I wasn't dosing fertilizers when I did it in low-light.

I've come to the conclusion that it can live under both, but perhaps fertilizers and ideal water parameters play a role in survival in high-light setups. 

Not trying to be argumentative, just wanted to offer my .02 and experience with it.


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

puppyrjjkm said:


> That's all extremely helpful Nexangelus! I did purchase the Carib-Sea Floramax substrate which makes the water very cloudy when stirred up but otherwise appears to be a good plant substrate. I'll definitely go un-pot the sword while I clean the tank up a tad today. I plan on dividing it for 2 male bettas since we're getting halfmoons at my petsmart
> 
> Other than that there is no sunlight hitting the tank (it's in my room in the basement which is extremely dark) but temp is staying about 77-78. I would LOVE some sort of carpeting plant but unfortunately up in Montana we don't have a large array of live plants, the ones I have are about as "fancy" as they get haha and I didn't really want to fork out $20-30 in shipping to get plants from like liveaquaria, etc. Although I would LOVE to take a few plants off yours hands eventually  I really like the covered driftwood as well. I bought 2 pieces at my LFS which will be on each side of the tank. If this keeps up I'll want to switch my 2 other tanks to live plants. Thanks so much for all your help! I'll post some pics once I have it all to my liking! Could you post some pics of your tank?


Here's one of my tank that I just took. The hairgrass needs a combing, but is doing well for the most part. The Valisera Spirallis behind the driftwood seems to be the only problem. Oh, and before Pew comments on the fern... It was snail ravaged when I got it... Honest! It's taking a long time to heal, but there's definitely growth and progress, even in high lighting.  










Oh, and the worm-like silver things clinging to the driftwood are plant weights. I really wasn't creative when trying to figure out how to keep the dang thing from floating... lol. The baby tears should cover them though... They grow sooo fast!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Ohh, I know allll about snail-eaten ferns  I know that pain!


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't know why, but it's challenging to find ferns without snails. Something about them attracts snails... I don't like it! Hey Pew, got any pictures of your tank laying around? I'm assuming you have a planted tank from the advice I've seen you give?


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## Neil D (Apr 10, 2011)

Can't you rub off the snails? Like rub the bottom and top of the ferns when you get them?


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Nexangelus said:


> I don't know why, but it's challenging to find ferns without snails. Something about them attracts snails... I don't like it! Hey Pew, got any pictures of your tank laying around? I'm assuming you have a planted tank from the advice I've seen you give?


I do have planted tanks. Ill send links to pics on your profile page, as to not hijack the thread from the OP


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Your tank is beautiful and you have a lovely betta! I really like the tall plant on the far left, what kind is it?

I'll look into ordering some locally, I work at Petsmart but unfortunately we don't special order. 

I'll post some pics once it clears up. I put the driftwood right in thinking it wouldn't stain the water too bad (since my last piece didn't). I was wrong it turned the whole tank reddish-brown. So I did a nice water change and they're soaking in a bucket!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Great! Soak in hot water for better results!
And my tanks?  I think what you mean is my java ferns. Theyre great! I bought from sweet aquatics.com. I recommend for quality, but they are slow* for shipping, from what I and others have found...keep on their butts to get your order lol!!!! 
Can't wait for pictures.


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

puppyrjjkm said:


> Your tank is beautiful and you have a lovely betta! I really like the tall plant on the far left, what kind is it?


Hm.... I don't know who he's talking to, but far be it from me to turn down a compliment. If you were in fact referring to my tank, The plant on the far left (in front of the filter) Is a Bacopa Australis (No affiliation with Australia.) Kind of an odd plant. Only one in my tank with virtually no changes since putting it in, despite it's "fast" rate of growth. 

I actually just put my driftwood straight in to my tank. Got a little cloudy, but cleared up after about a day or so. If you've been soaking it for a good 24-48 hours it should be good to go - assuming it's a small piece. I've never had any health problems in my tanks from the brown tannins, although it seems to bother some people aesthetically.

Super excited to see the pictures of your tank... I'm sure it looks great!


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Haha I was talking about your tank! Well the driftwood's been soaking about 32 hrs so I think I'll stick it in. Pics soon to come, but trust me it's not anything super exciting haha.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

PICTURES! Sorry I was gone so long has a crazy 9 day week at petsmart including inventory and regional manager's visit! So here's how the tank is looking. I think I was leaving the light on too long because what I would call "hair moss" started to grow between hornwort strands. All other plants are alive at the moment!


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Very very nice!


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks! It looks better in person though haha. Any suggestions for upkeep? For water changes, I just don't clean the gravel since it is plant substrate?


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks awesome! Hard to believe it can look any better than that! Water changes are pretty important, I've found. I'd say do one good sized change per week - 30ish is what I've been doing. Seems to be working. You can still vaccum the gravel, but I'd reccomend just kind of "waving" the siphon near the bottom, which should get the debris into the water where you can safely suck it up without uprooting your plants. 

What's that one you have floating? Someone donated a whole lot of it to our shop, but nobody seems to know what it is.... Is it some kind of Camboda? 

Also, we have very similar bettas! Mine is a little more on the pink side, but I admire your taste in choosing white ones - definitely a favorite of mine. 

I re-arranged my tank and picked up some new plants. I'll throw up a picture to show you after work.


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## Wyvern (May 19, 2011)

Do you use a fertilizer? If not, get one  That will help keep your plants growing like mad. The tank does look very nice. Dont do a proper gravel vac, but still vacuum the top of the substrate to remove all left over foods and poo's and so forth. The plants cant really use it unless its in the ground. I just give my plants some seachem flourish 2 times a week.


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## puppyrjjkm (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks! Yep, I have the liquid flourish I add whenever I remember  the floating plant is just basic hornwort (or thats at least what it was sold to me as). It's growing some awesome roots now. Actually it may be anachris, I can never remember which is which. But I do know it's one of the "easy" plants because that's all I bought! Haha I'm so excited with how this tank is going I want to transfer over my 29 gallon to live plants. Would I have to have a plant substrate (like eco-complete) or could I use basic gravel as long as I have proper lighting and fertilizer? I'm just not a huge fan of any little stir making the tank super cloudy...


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## Nexangelus (Apr 29, 2011)

Flourish is definitely a good choice, but sometimes it can't handle the load on it's own. I recently had to start dosing potassium and phosphates to turn the tides on a couple yellowing leaves. Just something to keep your eye on once you get a lot of plants in there.

A plant substrate is never required. It's to give a little "boost" to your plants, but honestly doesn't make a huge difference in the end. It's good for starters and those looking to go all out to keep the iron levels in check. If you dose tabs or have plants that don't require a lot of nutrients (IE: Easy care, slow growing) then you should be fine as long as the gravel pieces are more on the fine side. 

Here are some long overdue pictures of my tank. It's a bit on the messy side... Lots of debris I'm too tired to clean at the moment. I'm pleased to say that my anubias log has finally made it's debut in the planted tank and seems to be doing well. I'll work on another similar one to sell assuming this one holds up.


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