# beta just died after getting new tank...



## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

Had beta for six months in a 5 gallon tank with 5 danios. They got along fine but was getting tired of partial water changes every other week and cleaning the tank every 4-6 weeks, so we bought a 10 gallon with all new everything. Got it set up after rinsing everything thoroughly (as usual), dechlorinating the water (as usual) and getting the temp right (as usual). They all seemed to like the new tank but 4 days later the beta was floating on the bottom of the tank.
New to the tank was a bubbler scuba-dude and a large volcano thing with hide-holes. From teh old tank was a few of the fake plants. 
I did notice he was “missing” for a while on the previous night. I couldn’t find him and gave up looking after a while. I did see him swimming around after that, but I was wondering if maybe he got stuck and couldn’t breath.

I realize that may not be enough information to answer why he died, but I thought I’d ask. It’s all guesses n my end but I can’t help think it has to do with the new tank and environment. Maybe I should do a water PH or some other test? I want to make sure the tank is okay before getting another fish.

Also, I don’t think my kid will want another Beta. We have lost two. The first one lost all of his color but the water checked out fine. This one was brilliant-colored and very lively. Any suggestions for a fish that will be interesting but get along with the Danios? Or some other creature that is hardier than the beta?

Also, my wife thinks our daughter may have overfed him on Saturday and his stomach exploded. Anyone ever hear of this? He was definitely NOT a fat beta.

Thanks!


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## jessriggy (Apr 7, 2014)

Were you cycling the tank or was it cycled before you swapped them over?
Partial water changes every other week was NOT enough for your past tank, especially with the amount of fish you had in there


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## fisharefriendsnotfood78 (Aug 4, 2014)

I agree with jessriggy: The tank may not have been cycled. And water changes every other week isn't frequent enough to keep toxins down.


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

_I was not cycling. So it could have been shock from going from a tank with too many toxins to a tank that was too clean?




_


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## SeaKnight (May 24, 2013)

Anytime you set up a new tank with fish, aka Fish in cycle, it automatically beings a cycling process. It can take as little as a few days or upwards of 6-8 weeks, during which water chemistry should be monitored daily and water changes should be made, I typically do 15-20%, every day to every other day (or when ammonia and nitrites rise above .25ppm) until you get a constant reading of 0ppm for, at minimum, a week without water changes needing to be made.... Once this occurs you should being to see Nitrates rise... To combat these from becoming toxic a weekly 50% ( routine maintenance) water change should be done... It is possible the Betta died of shock (could not tolerate the sudden change in water chemistry.)


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

+1 ^

Danios also need at least a 2.5 foot tank. I would take them back and look into ember tetras and a dwarf gourami after you fishless cycle with pure ammonia and an API Master Liquid Test Kit


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks for the replies.
We've had the Danios for almost a year. They are zebra danios I think, but they are very small (3/4"). I bought these at a fish only store, not Petsmart, and the guy there said they would do fine in my small tank. If I took them out now, I would have nowhere to take them and my daughter would have 5x's the heartbreak.

Please help my little brain? When we got the first Beta, he went into a brand new 5 gallon tank straight from the crappy cup we bought him in. He lived for almost a year. wiht the danios in a 10 gallon now, how long (roughly) would I have to wait to introduce a new fish (betta or otherwise)? I cannot go buy more equipment now, so PPM pen is out.

I have no plans of changing out 5 gallons a week. Sorry if that sounds irresponsible. That is an insane amount of work and too much for my 10 year old to handle. Is that just for Bettas? Maybe I just need a different kind of fish. we got screwed into getting Bettas because we didn't research enough and Petsmart idiots said they'd be fine in a bowl no filter, no room etc. We learned fast that wasn't the case so invested in a 5 gallon; now a 10 gallon. I really am not set on Bettas. No offense to you betta lovers. if there is something easier, then I will talk my daugher into that.


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

Flint said:


> +1 ^
> 
> Danios also need at least a 2.5 foot tank. I would take them back and look into ember tetras and a dwarf gourami after you fishless cycle with pure ammonia and an API Master Liquid Test Kit


I will get the test kit. Maybe some of those fish too instead of bettas.

thank you.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Let me make sure I have this correct: 

You had 5 Dainos and a Betta in a 5 gallon. 

You moved them into a freshly set up 10 gallon. (Do you say what kind of filter you are using?) with all new water (did not move the water from the five gallon to the 10). 

You now have a 10 gallon with 5 dainos and an empty 5 gallon. 

I am going to guess, especially if there was a filter in the 5 gallon, that the tank had become cycled and you moved him into one that hadn't. Even without a filter, there is a partial cycle on all surfaces, gravel toys etc. that handles a little ammonia. 

I am going to say this is a case of "new fish syndrome" (which would be better named "new tank syndrome") which is caused by the new tank not being properly able to handle the ammonia produced by the fish. 

If you are wanting to minimize water changes, but you want to add something new, I recommend an african dwarf frog, or two. BUT only if your kid would be willing to stick her hand into the tank to hand feed the frog. Some kids think this is awesome, and it is a pet bonding moment. Some kids do NOT want to stick their arm down there. However, ADFs have fairly low bioloads, and are fairly hardy. 

There is only one way to actually eliminate water changes, and that method is HARD and would involve completely re-doing the tank. It is called the Walstad method and it requires adding LOTS of plants to handle the waste produced by the fish. If you got 10 or 15 merino moss balls, you could probably do your water changes less frequently as well. (Instead of a 15% each week, you could get by with a 20% every two, perhaps.)

How much water changes HAD you been doing, and how much are you expecting to do now?


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1 to the above.

i believe this is new tank syndrome. The lack of cycling and possible ammonia in the tank could have been to much for him.

in addition - did you acclimate your betta when you moved him into the new tank. I have found that some bettas are VERY sensitive to not being acclimated and it leads to many problems. 

With a 5 gallon tank stocked that heavily you would have needed to be doing two 50% water changes every week.

With the 10 gallon I would buy the API liquid freshwater master test kit. and properly cycling the tank. 

Here are some links about cycling
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=111960
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107771
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=47838

Once you properly cycle your tank you may only need one 50% water change every week. Although you will have to test your tank for nitrates to see how fast they build up and that will help you decide how many water changes to do.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

here's my question, why have a tank if you're going to get tired of cleaning them? Getting a bigger one wont exactly solve the problem either, you'd still have to clean it. And often too, considering its only 10 gal.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

sharkettelaw1 said:


> here's my question, why have a tank if you're going to get tired of cleaning them? Getting a bigger one wont exactly solve the problem either, you'd still have to clean it. And often too, considering its only 10 gal.


I'm going to agree with this. all tanks require weekly maintenance at least but usually more.

Weekly water changes and cleaning is part of fish keeping. 

I'm not going to say get rid or your tank but please do think about why you are keeping fish. Fish are pets just like dogs and cats and do require a lot of tank maintenance. 

Personally while it may be time consuming to clean tanks, I don't mind doing it at all because it keeps my fish healthy and active.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

rbico said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> We've had the Danios for almost a year. They are zebra danios I think, but they are very small (3/4"). I bought these at a fish only store, not Petsmart, and the guy there said they would do fine in my small tank. If I took them out now, I would have nowhere to take them and my daughter would have 5x's the heartbreak.
> 
> Please help my little brain? When we got the first Beta, he went into a brand new 5 gallon tank straight from the crappy cup we bought him in. He lived for almost a year. wiht the danios in a 10 gallon now, how long (roughly) would I have to wait to introduce a new fish (betta or otherwise)? I cannot go buy more equipment now, so PPM pen is out.
> ...


I'd be willing to bet that your betta died from ammonia (and possibly also nitrite) poisoning. Basically, your 5 gallon had a healthy population of bacteria that convert fish waste from ammonia (very toxic) to nitrite (also very toxic) to nitrate (much less toxic). The nitrates will build up in the aquarium until they are removed by water changes - that is where you come in. Failure to properly change the water in a cycled tank will eventually lead to toxic nitrate levels and a pH crash as acidic byproducts accumulate. 

Now, your new tank was not even cycled (not enough beneficial bacteria to handle the fish waste), so it was the much more toxic ammonia which was building up. If you've ever smelled ammonia out of a bottle, you know that you can get a headache from just a single whiff of the stuff. Now imagine that you are in a room that is being slowly pumped full of ammonia gas - that is what your fish is breathing. I never recommend fish-in aquarium cycles because of this, but if you are going to cycle with the fish in the tank, you really need a reliable test kit that you will use to test for ammonia and nitrite daily. You then need to do water changes as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite no higher than .25 ppm. This may mean daily or every other day water changes; there is simply no way around this without subjecting your fish to a slow and painful death by toxin accumulation. Sure, if you change the water every few weeks your tank will eventually cycle, but all of your fish will likely die in the process. Here is an article on the aquarium cycle that I HIGHLY recommend you peruse:http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...nners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-353074/

As far as adding fish to the 10 gallon is concerned - don't. First, it needs to cycle and the more fish you add, the worse the waste situation will be and the harder it will be to cycle the tank without killing your fish. Second, if you never plan on doing weekly water changes, having more fish will just be a disaster. The water change schedule that has been recommended is not betta-specific - all fish require regular care, and many are much more sensitive to water quality than bettas. In all honesty, you would only need to do a weekly 25-50% water change (depending on your test results) in that 10 gallon to keep your 5 danios healthy once it is cycled (you will need to change the water more often during the cycling process, as I have already said). That would probably take about 30 minutes, at most. Once a week. I've seen people spend more time on facebook over the course of a single day. Plus, it would be a great learning experience for your daughter to truly experience the work it takes to keep a pet happy and healthy, and she could learn to take pride in her work. I don't think that changing 2.5-5 gallons of water a week is an outrageous amount of work, especially if you help her. When I was 11 I was responsible for caring for a herd of 8 horses (not mine)..........and it was the best thing my parents could have done for me. It taught me the value of persistence, dedication, and hard work, and these lessons have helped me immensely throughout life.


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## SeaKnight (May 24, 2013)

rbico said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> We've had the Danios for almost a year. They are zebra danios I think, but they are very small (3/4"). I bought these at a fish only store, not Petsmart, and the guy there said they would do fine in my small tank. If I took them out now, I would have nowhere to take them and my daughter would have 5x's the heartbreak.
> 
> Please help my little brain? When we got the first Beta, he went into a brand new 5 gallon tank straight from the crappy cup we bought him in. He lived for almost a year. wiht the danios in a 10 gallon now, how long (roughly) would I have to wait to introduce a new fish (betta or otherwise)? I cannot go buy more equipment now, so PPM pen is out.
> ...


 
Water Changes are a routine part of Fishkeeping, regardless of the type of fish you desire to have, and while larger tanks and different fish or, as bluenail mentioned, adding an insane amount of moss balls *may* allow for more "infrequent" ( meaning that instead of having to do 5 gallons a week on a 10 gallon, you can do say bi-weekly changes on 20 gallons and under or 50 gallons on a 100 gallon once a month) changes there really is no way to completely eliminate them.. Unless you are dedicated and experienced enough to attempt the Walstad method, as mentioned by Bluenail, which it would seem you are not, seeing as, you deem 5 gallons a week too much....

Edit to ADD: I do weekly water changes on 5 5ish gallon tanks, 2 75 gallon tanks, 1 125 gallon tank, and 2 30-45gallon tanks and my children ranging from 2 1/2-10 yrs old BEG to help me each and every time..


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Agreed what has been said above. 

we are not calling you a bad owner by not doing weekly water changes BUT they are required. You can't just leave a tank for weeks without care. 

I've kept betta fish since the age of 6 years old (I am 21 now). By the time I was 11, I was doing most of the care of my fish since my parents had taught me how to properly care for them. The only thing my father helped me with at that age was carrying the 2.5 gallon tank to the sink for weekly 100% water changes. We did not have filters on my tank at that time so 100% water changes were required. By not doing weekly maintenance on your tanks you are teaching your 10 year old bad habits. Set up an award system for your kid. give them awards from remembering to do water changes. Since I've been keeping bettas all of mine have lived at least 2-3 years. 

This is going to sound harsh but if you cannot commit to weekly water changes and weekly maintenance then you need to reconsider keeping fish. Fish are not pets that you can just leave in a tank without weekly care.

In addition - bettas are probably the most easiest to care for because they are very hardy. This doesn't mean you can slack on care, they are still fish and require what every fish needs. You shouldn't keep fish because it is easy and low maintenance. You should keep fish because you enjoy the beauty of them and want them to live long heathy lives.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

yes I agree. Fish take time and dedication, and if you\your kid cannot spend that time maintenancing it then your better off selling it all and staying away from fish as pet. However having said that I will tell you only having to change the water once a week is sooo easy after you get use to doing it its not even hard, you'll get it down ,I have to change the water in 3 tanks 2-3 times a week...now that's work. You have to remeber that they ONLY way your fish get fresh clean water is when YOU change it. When you do fesh keeping the right way you'll see the rewards yourself, but when you arnt properly caring for your aquarium it will be death after death, illness after illness and money prety much burnt....anyway its well worth it if your willing to do the "work", but please get rid of them if you cannot or else youll pretty much be torturing them...goodluck!


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm going to go a LITTLE against the grain here and say that with what fish you have, you can probably get away with less of a water change than others here are mentioning if you want to over-filter. If your primary filter is rated for a 10 gallon, and you add in a sponge filter that is rated 20 gallons, you won't have to do a 50% change every week. You would be okay doing a weekly change of much less water, or doing a 50% every two weeks. Clean your gravel at the same time. 

You actually don't have to clean the sides of the aquarium at all if you don't want to. If you let the algae grow, it will actually be good for the fish, you just won't be able to see them. My brother once had a tank that you couldn't see the fish at all for all the algae, but the algae processed enough ammonia that the tank stayed "cycled" without a filter. If you only clean the front glass, you can still see the fish, and thick algae will grow on the back and sides adding to your aquarium's ability to process waste. 

I would recommend you carefully measure nitrates, and see how high they get in two weeks. If they are still in the "safe" zone after two weeks, you are okay with a water change every two weeks, but in this case you cannot miss a water change. 

Your best bet MIGHT be to work on ways to make the cleaning easier. May I ask what your process is? Do you have a power-siphon, or do you siphon by mouth? Hand pump? Do you empty with a cup? A powered siphon / gravel vaccumn will cost a bit, but will really cut down on the effort of cleaning a tank. How far from the tank is the nearest water? Do you or your daughter have to carry water in in large buckets? Would switching to jugs be easier? If you throughly was empty two liter soda bottles, you can use them, and you don't have to worry as much about sloshing which makes carrying them MUCH easier. 

Can you go into step by step detail on how a cleaning goes, and we can tell you what we can think of that would make it easier? 

(Also, forgive me if I'm just unable to read, but did you ever say what filters you were using both before and now?)


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I have the same maintenance requirements as above. I have three 2.5 gallon tanks and they all require weekly gravel cleaning as well as 2-3 water changes every week. I am also a full time college student taking 6 classes and have a part-time job and have additional freelance work on the side (I'm a photographer). I don't look at tank cleanings as "work", I look at it as giving my fish healthy lives and as a part of keeping them. I lead a very busy life and if at any time I am not able to give my fish the care they need then i would consider downsizing to only one fish or selling them to trusting owners. I love my fish very much and would not want to this but i also want them to live full healthy lives.


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

My daughters also beg to help with everything. We've had our betta and 10-gallon tank for just over 2 weeks, and my 10-year old is already using the API Master Test Kit on her own to check params. 

My 7-year old daughter asked me the other day if she could look online for a chart to keep track of whose turn it was to feed Nosey and cover him up at bedtime (we place a towel over the tank while Mom and Dad are still up watching TV). I printed this one out for them: http://www.kidpointz.com/printable-charts/pet-care-charts/fish/view/charts-petcare-fish-002.pdf You have to sign up with your e-mail, but that's it.

Once I have the gravel vac I ordered, I'll let them help with water changes, too.


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

I run a 1-man shop and am sole provider. The tank is on her dresser. right now I have to drag in a large chair to put an old 5-gallon water bottle on. I have a hand-squeee gravel vacuum thingy that gets the water going and I sift the poop off the bottom with that (and into the 5--gallon). My daughter can't move the chair and I would be hesitant so let her shove the vacuum around for fear of knocking the tank over. That's not to mention the high chance of her getting fish tank water all over the place.

I spoke with the guy who sold me the danios and I am picking up two kits today; one for ammonia and one for nitrates (I think). He agreed with most of what you are all saying but said 50% water change a week is a bit much and more like putting a bandaid on the problem instead of figuring out a healthy environment. He is going to talk to me and my daughter about a plan and give us what we need.

So i'll get my water situation healthy first, then work out a routine for my daughter. She could probably handle a fair amount of the work, but I will be surprised if she likes it as much as you all did.

I am a hard working person, but I would not have gotten the fish if I had known they were this much work. Stupid me thought the filter kept things in check. I have two cats that are already a pain in the butt to deal with so delaing with fish problems is no good. I love animals, but prefer to visit with other people's. Whatever I do, I make it look fun and cool for my kid though. jedi mind trick her into enjoying it.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Doing 50% water changes isn't putting a bandaid on the problem. Water changes prevent problems from arising. In many ways you aren't taking care of fish, you are taking care of water.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

I also think 50% is a bit much, so I'm with the fish store guy on this one (ewww). I would think 25% would probably do fine if the tank is well filtered. 

How high is the dresser, your best bet might really be to get a lower perch for the aquarium, get a power siphon, and let her do the water changes while _supervised_. If it is her pet, she can do most of the work for it. Keeping a fish responsibly is still less work than keeping a dog responsibly, or a cat. 

You might consider a tank with no gravel as an option to make the cleanup easier as well. 

One thing remember also, is you are on a forum for fish lovers. We try to do the absolute best for our fish that we can. "Good enough" is not good enough for us. Although I also try to do the best for my fish, I am okay with someone else being only adequate. If you have the tank over filtered, and you then only do a 50% water change once a month you are still probably going to have fish that are fine, and you are probably doing better than 90% of the people who get an aquarium for their kids. 

When I kept my first aquarium years ago (so long ago that I don't count it in my "time I've kept an aquarium stat on this forum) I didn't know what I was doing. I never did a water change once, I had no filter except for an under gravel filter which I cleaned about once a year. I didn't clean the algae, basically I did the equivalent of going up to my parents and saying, "no, I'm not responsible enough yet for a puppy, thank you for asking". 

But the fish did not all die.

The advice you get here will likely be the advice that maximizes the lifetime of your fish, maximizes their happiness and minimizes the risk of early fish death. But people have successfully kept aquariums in much worse conditions than what you are talking about doing for many years.


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## SeaKnight (May 24, 2013)

To be honest, once my tanks are cycled, although I do them regularly, not every one I do is consistently at 50% (after awhile you kinda get a feel for what each particular tank needs and when.... 50% is just the average suggested amount your "generally speaking" tank needs.... Some have been as little as 10% while others are up near 75% (with the occasional 100% change.) .


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

"this much work"?! The majority on this forum have 5+ tanks. A lot of us breed these fish so the smallest tank that some of us keep is 10 gal. I have 2 x 10 gal, 1 x 33 gal, and 3 x 7 gal. I do 50% water changes EVERY week, on ALL the tanks. It takes me 45 min at MOST to clean them. Not even that long and ive not had a sick fish in almost a year. Aside from one betta who i thought was bloated but wasnt.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Hmm... just a few thoughts on how the water change could be made easier...
1. Can you stick the siphon tube out the window so the waste water doesn't have to be lugged in buckets? 
2. Would a python siphon be helpful? It sucks the water out into your sink, and then refills right from the sink using a long hose. Thus, no buckets.
3. Can you put the tank on a lower stand so your daughter can do more for herself?
4. Maybe tell your daughter that her reward for learning to do the water changes herself is a new fish in one month after the tank cycles?


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

It might be a good idea for those replying to keep in mind that all we know about the OP's situation is what we've gleaned from the posts here, which is naturally filtered through our own opinions and experience. Although it's human nature to look for similarities to relate someone else's situation to our own, we can't compare what's manageable for ourselves to what is manageable for another person. 

What's manageable for me can change from day to day depending upon any number of variables, many of which are completely internal and have nothing to do with my schedule or how much else I have on my plate. 

It's great to share our own experiences - I did it yesterday in this thread - but I tried to do so without sounding judgmental or accusatory. I hope my post came across as, "Here's what's working for me, and maybe you can take something from my experience that will help you," rather than, "Well, I have 976 other things to take care of, but I can still find time to do water changes!"


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> Doing 50% water changes isn't putting a bandaid on the problem. Water changes prevent problems from arising. In many ways you aren't taking care of fish, you are taking care of water.


Yes I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like saying that eating puts a bandaid on the problem of hunger.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

bluenail said:


> One thing remember also, is you are on a forum for fish lovers. We try to do the absolute best for our fish that we can. "Good enough" is not good enough for us. Although I also try to do the best for my fish, I am okay with someone else being only adequate. If you have the tank over filtered, and you then only do a 50% water change once a month you are still probably going to have fish that are fine, and you are probably doing better than 90% of the people who get an aquarium for their kids.


Yes, and most people who are mystified about why their fish die after their once a month or once every few months water change don't understand how the ph drops and nitrates rise when you don't do weekly water changes.... and then a partial change months later causes the ph to skyrocket and toxins free up and fish get shocked and die. Not doing water changes regularly at least every other week results in a no-win situation because not changing the water will kill the fish, and changing the water is likely to kill them too.


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

*thanks*



huckleberry77 said:


> Hmm... just a few thoughts on how the water change could be made easier...
> 1. Can you stick the siphon tube out the window so the waste water doesn't have to be lugged in buckets?
> 2. Would a python siphon be helpful? It sucks the water out into your sink, and then refills right from the sink using a long hose. Thus, no buckets.
> 3. Can you put the tank on a lower stand so your daughter can do more for herself?
> 4. Maybe tell your daughter that her reward for learning to do the water changes herself is a new fish in one month after the tank cycles?


 #1 seems like a good idea
#2 I thought you had to dechlorinate the water even for a partial change-out?
#3 I can’t do that. No place to put it.
#4 She is actually excited about being more involved with taking care of her fish. I have been explaining everything to he and she gets it.



huckleberry77 said:


> Yes, and most people who are mystified about why their fish die after their once a month or once every few months water change don't understand how the ph drops and nitrates rise when you don't do weekly water changes.... and then a partial change months later causes the ph to skyrocket and toxins free up and fish get shocked and die. Not doing water changes regularly at least every other week results in a no-win situation because not changing the water will kill the fish, and changing the water is likely to kill them too.


 The guy at the aquarium store spent 15-20 minutes with me going over cycling and change outs and tank population vs health and I get it now. It shouldn’t be that hard to do. I bought an ammonia test kit (strips) and a 6-in-1 test kit (strips) to monitor the water. Odd thing is, when I checked last night, everything was perfect. I even re-read the directions and did a second test and everything was “safe”. 

When he said band aid, he meant it would be a band aid if I never bothered to learn about the water cycling and what causes chemical fluaxuations in the water.

I learned a valuable, albeit sad, lesson from all of this. From now on I will definitely keep the tank cycled properly, I will not over populate it, I will never put fish in an un-cycled tank and I will never by a damn thing from Petsmart again.

Thanks to you all for the advice.


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## SeaKnight (May 24, 2013)

rbico said:


> #1 seems like a good idea
> #2 I thought you had to dechlorinate the water even for a partial change-out?
> #3 I can’t do that. No place to put it.
> #4 She is actually excited about being more involved with taking care of her fish. I have been explaining everything to he and she gets it.
> ...


Great to hear! Just one more bit of advice, when time and/or money allow I suggest getting the API liquid master kit. Much more accurate than the strips.. Good luck.


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## myexplodingcat (Apr 9, 2014)

A 10g is fine for 5 zebras and a betta, but you do need to cycle it first. Here is my advice; I'll make it as simple and pain-free as possible.

You will need:
-A filter for a 10 or a 20 gallon tank
-Water conditioner
-Test kit
-To relax a bit!
-A bit of patience

Keep the danios. They are hardy enough to do a fish-in cycle on your tank. Every day, change two gallons of water and dose water conditioner. Run the filter all this time. The tank should cycle. Test your water every day, or at least every other day. This is the point with the most maintenance: it all gets easier from here!

If you want to make it easier on yourself, find yourself a bottle of liquid aquarium plant fertilizer and some low-light stem plants and some floating plants. I'm talking about duckweed/frogbit/water sprite, and something like water wisteria. Slow-growing plants like java moss, anubias, and java/el nino/tropica/windelov ferns will help, but not as much as floaters or fast-growing stems.

These plants, with the help of a bit of fertilizer every few days, will take quite a bit of toxic fish stuff out of your tank. They'll grow and occasionally need to be trimmed. That's good, because then you have more plants helping you out.

When your tank is heavily planted, with the plants covering half the substrate, you can cut down on your water changes because they'll take care of a lot for you.

Until then, probably safe to do one 50% change a week. Yes, dose water conditioner every time. It's not as hard as it sounds, really. 

If you have trouble, you can PM me if you like.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

rbico said:


> #1 seems like a good idea
> #2 I thought you had to dechlorinate the water even for a partial change-out?
> #3 I can’t do that. No place to put it.
> #4 She is actually excited about being more involved with taking care of her fish. I have been explaining everything to he and she gets it.
> ...


If you use a python to do water changes you can dose your entire tank (dose = volume of whole tank, not just partial amt) with water conditioner after you remove the water you want to remove, then refill with correct temperature water from the sink via the python. The chlorine will get dechlorinated in the tank. 

Congratulations on "getting it"! The biology is complex and it can take a while to sink in. Understocked tanks can also get by with slightly less maintenance than overstocked tanks... but everyone likes the looks of all the pretty fishies in an overstocked tank!


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

rbico said:


> #1 seems like a good idea
> #2 I thought you had to dechlorinate the water even for a partial change-out?
> #3 I can’t do that. No place to put it.
> #4 She is actually excited about being more involved with taking care of her fish. I have been explaining everything to he and she gets it.
> ...


This is very good to hear - I must commend you on your dedication to provide a good home for your fish. As long as you perform enough water changes to keep everything safe while the tank cycles, you should be on your way to having a nice, healthy aquarium. The plus side is that once it is cycled, weekly maintenance will be much easier; also, your daughter will have learned many valuable lessons from the experience .


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

+1 to whoever said to return the strips and get a liquid test kit. The strips are not accurate and it is also very hard to read them because all the colors blend together. The API freshwater master test kit is recommended.


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

On the strips/vs liquid debate, the liquid works MUCH better, and I want to add it is actually cheaper. Compare how many tests a liquid test gives with how many strips are in a package. . . 

However, there is one option that works fairly well, and is what I do. I have a liquid ammonia test kit, and the 5 in one strips. This significantly lessens the time it takes to do a testing, lets you know if everything is out of wack, and alerts you to if you need to watch everything more carefully. 

On the ammonia, I've had ammonia strips tell me everything was fine during a fishless cycle when I had actually dosed up to 20ppm (I kept adding since the strips said I wasn't up to 5ppm yet...) 

On the subject of the tests now showing that you are fine, do you mind telling us what "fine" is? What you want to see is zero ammonia, zero nitrites, and some nitrates, but not too many. If you have nitrites or ammonia, but it is in the safe levels, that isn't a "all is well" reading, thats a "watch closely but don't don anything" reading. If anything is above the safe level, then you do a water change. 

Also, I ONLY recommend these for houses with children, since they are not reliable and you need to do full tests anyway, but take a look at these: if your child either isn't ready to do the liquid measurements, these allow her to have some part in the ammonia testing, if only in a backup capacity. While you are getting your tank set up, and you are doing nearly daily testing they really aren't useful, but when you move on to doing only weekly or so testing they MIGHT give you an early warning that something is amiss.


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## rbico (Mar 20, 2013)

I checked again last night and going from memory it was zero ammonia, zero nitrites and zero nitrates. I talked with the fish guy and he said to wait until I have some nitrates before adding any new fish. He said it would probably take about a week but to check it every day.

Also, the PH buffer was a little on the low side (5-in-1 test), but the PH was balanced at 7-ish. not sure what to do about the buffer or if it's nothing to worry about.

I'll stick with the strips for now. I've already used them and they were $15 for each kit. when these run out I will consider the liquid. And the colors do no blend together on the strips I have - they are all separated


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Your pH sounds fine, and as long as it remains stable (a stable pH is much more important than an "ideal" pH), you shouldn't need to worry about your water's buffering capacity. 

Also, don't be shocked if it takes your tank longer than a week to fully cycle (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrates) - that is actually quite common.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

I have to second the advice that an automatic water-changer really helps, especially with kids' tanks. My 3 year old has a 10 gallon tank in her room with 2 bettas (divided). We siphon the water out into a 5 gallon bucket with a little siphon that is small enough for her to handle, and I dump the buckets into the bathtub (which is why Wednesdays are both water change and bathtub scrubbing nights lol!). Then I measure out the water conditioner dose, have her add it, and then I let her hold the hose while we refill the water directly from the sink with the python. It takes maybe 10 minutes tops for a routine water change. The python is a real time-saver. Of course, her tank is on a very low toy box, so the logistics are different. I'm a single parent 5 days a week, and we have 4 tanks total in the house (for a total of about 115 gallons) but we make it work!

It may take longer than a week to see nitrates in your tank, but definitely keep checking. I'd take that further and say wait until you see nitrates AND your ammonia and nitrite are 0 for a few days in a row before adding more fish.

Don't worry about the pH/buffer unless you're noticing huge pH swings. Bettas can adapt to a lot of pH levels, and it usually causes more problems to mess with it than to leave it alone.


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## huckleberry77 (May 31, 2014)

Water changing does get easier once you get a system down. I did 50% water changes w/vacuum on all three of my three betta tanks before work this morning (2.5 gal, 3 gal, and 4 gal.) in less than 20 minutes using 2 five gallon buckets and a self-starting gravel vacuum. Fill one bucket with correct temp (use a meat thermometer) water and condition it... Siphon/vacuum into other 5 gallon bucket... pour in fresh water. If you are organized and have a system down it can become very easy.


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## givemethatfish (Feb 10, 2014)

This might not help with a tank up high, but you can also siphon water back into a tank, and that way as long as you know how much you took out and how much is in the container, you can just walk away while it refills itself. You just need to set the container higher than the tank level, which may or may not be do-able. But before we got the water changer, I'd put the 5 gallon bucket on a barstool, start the siphon back into the tank, and walk away.


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