# Troy the German Shepherd



## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Not only do I have a betta fish, I also have a beautiful 8 month German Showlines GSD named Troy.  

DSC_4193 by bella_67, on Flickr

DSC_4762 by bella_67, on Flickr

DSC_4758 by bella_67, on Flickr

IMG_0456 by bella_67, on Flickr

DSC_4859 by bella_67, on Flickr

Enjoy


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

He's a gorgeous dog :thumbsup:


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## ShadowRaven (Jul 25, 2015)

He's gorgeous! My family used to own German Shepherds, I miss them so much! My yard is to small for a large dog


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Nice looking shepherd. Do you do any showing with him, or is he just a pet? 

We've got four here and they definitely keep you busy.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks everyone


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Nice looking shepherd. Do you do any showing with him, or is he just a pet?
> 
> We've got four here and they definitely keep you busy.


No, I was going to show him but I'm doing Shutzund instead. ☺


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Good luck with your endeavors. I think Schutzund/IPO is banned where I live, or at least participation in it, seems a lot more difficult than overseas, which is pretty ridiculous.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Yeah, I'm pretty excited to start. He has so much drive for a showline! We had his hips/elbows done for preliminary OFA. Hips were good, and elbows were normal. Yay! Here's his pedigree if you wanna check it out: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2332360-troy-vom-haus-nash


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

I have a G. Shepherd too! Her name is Qiva, and she's from a DDR East German herding line. This is when she was about a year. I think she's about two now. (She's my older sister's dog.) Sadly, I don't have any current pictures of her.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Gorgeous!


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Thanks! I was actually able find two more pics. I may try to get my sister to email some more to me...


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm actually getting a solid black long coat this year, of next year!


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Nice! Are you going to get another one from show lines, or something else?


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

The new pup will be American Showlines ☺


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

I'm sure you already know this, but be sure to get it from a good breeder! The showlines aren't very soundly built anymore.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm getting the puppy the same breeder I got Troy from. Troy's litter was bred in Germany.


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Well, considering his pedigree and such, I would say that is a better show-line.

Sorry, but if you couldn't tell already, I prefer DDR's over showline shepherds  If I offend you in anyway, please let me know! I'm not trying to offend anybody.

This one time we were at a dog show, and we brought Qiva. So my sister goes up to the people with the shepherds, and they were being incredibly rude to her. They told her that "thing" doesn't belong here. The funny part that I forgot to mention, is that she's a service dog. So that thing can go anywhere she wants! :lol:


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Nooooo, you didn't offend me at all! Everyone has their favorites.  Yeah, dog shows are normally German or American showines, but people decide to give hate anyways.


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

I've never really understood the showlines vs. DDR/working lines argument on G. Shepherds. I mean honestly, no side is better than the other. I mean, sure showlines can have problems with their hips and elbows, but so can DDRs. In the end, they are all still the same breed.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Showline have the sloped back, bred for showing, and don't have as much 'drive' as the working lines. I don't think all Showlines a prone to hip & elbow problems. It's all based on genetics, not the particular line.


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

Yeah, I know the differences between the body shapes. The showlines are more prone to hip problems, because of how their hips are positioned. 

Of course, that doesn't mean ALL showline dogs are going to get hip dysplasia and such. They are just more likely.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Ehh, I have to respectfully disagree. Troy isn't going to have HD or ED because we already had him x-rayed, and everything came back good from OFA.


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

What I meant is that not all showline dogs are going to get HD or ED, it's just they are more likely to develop it, because of where their hips are placed and such. 

Of course, there are the better showline breeders out there who don't breed dogs that have those problems. Then there are the backyard breeders and the not-so good breeders who breed their dogs that have those problems and more. 

Regardless, Troy is a beautiful dog  He has very nice form.

I guess the dogs I'm really talking about are ones like these; I know they look even worse than they are, because of the stance, but still.


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## sharkettelaw1 (Mar 6, 2013)

I want to get myself a German shepherd soon, but I have to say that I hate the idea of having a dog that will struggle to walk when it reaches old age because of hip displasure.. I don't know what people find so appealing about a dog with such problems. I handled one like that. Still young and had it, couldn't run at all and could barely walk. It was so bad he had to be put down. I saw another one today, it was HUGE. Almost my size -_- I love the look of your dog, he is so gorgeous and adorable


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## HTageant (May 27, 2015)

*I'm so sorry!*

I just realized, I have absolutely no idea what I was talking about! :|

For some reason I thought Troy was American lines!  So just ignore the pictures and such. I'll admit that I went a little overboard, and I apologize for that. I bet he'll do great in shcutzhund!

Here are some more recent pictures of Qiva...


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

The slope of the back is actually determined by the angulation of the hindquarters. There is meant to be some slope to the back. A lot of 'straight backed' dogs are actually sway backed. I personally would run screaming from anyone that advertises that they breed 'old-fashioned straight backed' dogs as often this means low drive, oversize, and not at all to breed standard. 

I am not a fan of over-angulation, but over-angulation has no effect on whether or not the dog will have hip dysplasia or not. I mean some of the worst put together animals will have excellent hips, while a working line dog with very functional conformation will end up being crippled by hip dysplasia. 

We have a dog here whose litter siblings all had extremely low scores for their hips. Meanwhile our dog at one year of age had arthritic changes already happening on one side because of hip dysplasia. It's really just the luck of the draw. 

Yet that dog is as sound as anything. At four years of age you could not pick there is anything wrong with her without looking at the x-rays. Her back end is very strong and she never turned up lame when she was being biked multiple times a week to get fit for shows. 

You can't just look at a dog and say it's going to have hip dysplasia based on conformation. Over-angulation and a sloping back may be ugly, but that doesn't predispose the animal to hip dysplasia any more than an animal with moderate angulation and a 'straight back'


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## Tebeha (Sep 12, 2015)

There is some correlation between hip dysplasia and extreme angulation. I am not talking about moderate, I mean extreme. 

There is also the fact that the American rate of hip dysplasia in the breed that was tested is 19%. This is of the dogs who decided to send in the Xrays as you can choose not to with OFA.

In German the rate is 7-9% of ALL German Shepherds intended for breeding. When Xrays are taken you have to send them in for the SV.

Obviously something is going wrong in the breed here in the US. This is disregarding the nerve, temperament, and lack of drive that you don't see in most showline dogs. The extreme angulation you are seeing in the show lines may not be causation for later joint issues, but there certainly is correlation. 

Both dogs here are beautiful.


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

HTageant said:


> What I meant is that not all showline dogs are going to get HD or ED, it's just they are more likely to develop it, because of where their hips are placed and such.
> 
> Of course, there are the better showline breeders out there who don't breed dogs that have those problems. Then there are the backyard breeders and the not-so good breeders who breed their dogs that have those problems and more.
> 
> ...


Those photos are German Showlines


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## chloster (Aug 4, 2015)

Tebeha said:


> There is some correlation between hip dysplasia and extreme angulation. I am not talking about moderate, I mean extreme.
> 
> There is also the fact that the American rate of hip dysplasia in the breed that was tested is 19%. This is of the dogs who decided to send in the Xrays as you can choose not to with OFA.
> 
> ...


Yeah because I believe in Germany you aren't allowed to breed & be able to register the puppies without the parents passing all the health tastings. (correct me if I'm wrong)


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm in Australia and our showline bred German Shepherds are quite different in appearance to American showline dogs. I did hear it discussed that dogs that have been imported into Australia and then x-rayed under our hip/elbow scheme, may not have had as great a scores as they did back in Germany, so perhaps the different scoring systems used also has some correlation to the percentages you provided. 

It seems some people will look at an x-ray and give it one score, and another person will look at an x-ray and give it an entirely different one. 

I do find it sad that discussion concerning showline German Shepherds almost invariably swerves to over-angulation and hip dysplasia. There are other breeds with atrocious hips/elbows and much worse breeding practices, and yet it's German Shepherds that seem to cop the most flack. 

Hopefully Troy does well with whatever you have planned for him. He looks all leg in the Pedigree Database photo. They all seem to go through that gangly stage before they start broadening up.


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## Tebeha (Sep 12, 2015)

The SV grades hips with an actual equation, there is no opinions in the matter. The reason that some dogs that get their A stamp in Germany, but not get as good of scores in other countries is because the SV will not grade down hips that have injuries to them, they look at what would be considered purely genetic.

It is the same with OFA. They pass dogs that were injured and thus have dysplasia to a minor degree, where as OFA would give them a dysplastic rating as they just go by what they see. 



> I do find it sad that discussion concerning showline German Shepherds almost invariably swerves to over-angulation and hip dysplasia. There are other breeds with atrocious hips/elbows and much worse breeding practices, and yet it's German Shepherds that seem to cop the most flack.


I think it is because there is such a noticeable difference between show lines and what GSDs used to be, and because they are such a popular breed. I hate that my favorite two breeds are so split between show and working line.


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## PurpleDog (Aug 15, 2015)

Here in MN we have several UKC shows and have several GSDs that show. My absolute FAVORITE line are the Atlas dogs. Especially the namesake... Atlas.

If I were to ever get a GSD, I don't think I would consider going to anyone else!

http://www.atlaskennels.com/


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