# How to QT Neon Tetras??



## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

Hello!
Once my 10gal tank is done cycling, i am going to buy 3 more neon tetras to add but i would like to know how to and how long to QT 3 tetras...
i already have a tank, heater, and filter ready and food. But, also, this tank i am putting them in is going to be dry before i add water.... should i cycle it for 24 hours before adding the tetras and check the parameters for that tank? the tank i am using for them was recently used so maybe it'll be okay just to run it for 24hrs..?

maybe there is a link to a thread on how to QT tetras.....?

thanks and please reply <3
BL14


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

I think cycling for twenty four hours probably would be much of a cycle. I would recommend two weeks especially if they came from walmart. I don't usually worry about cycles when I am QTing because I have to do water changes so often anyway.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

In order to properly quarantine new fish, they must be put in a tank that's cycled. The purpose of quarantining new fish is to isolate them for treatment, as well as to observe the fishs behavior for signs of problems that are not readily visible. If you expose them to the cycling process, it will be difficult to determine their true behavior. New fish must be made as comfortable as possible so that you can get a true reading on the fish. 

Quarantine periods vary, by keeper, and even between species with the same keeper. The minimum should be 2 weeks. I quarantine new fish for a minimum of a month - often closer to two months. There is NO good that can come from rushing a fish into your show tank. Only bad things can happen. Lets take my 125 as an example. It's getting fully stocked - got to build up a few schools and add a couple more fish, but aside from that its probably 85% complete. The value of the fish in that tank exceeds $500 - I am VERY cautious about adding fish to that tank, because of what's at stake - the $$$ and the two years of progress.

If you are going to quarantine fish in a non cycled tank, then you better be prepared to do daily water changes. Your other option, assuming your main tank is cycled, is to transfer some filter media from the show tanks filter to the quarantine tanks filter. Transferring the established bacteria colony living on the media will give you an instant cycle. It may take up to a few days for the bacteria colony to catch up to the bioload of the new fish if you don't transfer enough media, but that's a minor inconvenience compared to starting from scratch on the cycle. One thing you can do to mitigate the gap is to not feed the fish for a few days. The last thing you need to do is add to the bioload by feeding.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

is it ok that i keep the tank running; like the heater and filter on acting like there are fish in it until i get them?? will that work to keep all the BBs in it and the temp good and comfy for them? i think that might be better to do that and keep an already cycled tank still running so it doesnt dry so i can put the fishies in right away...

i hope that works :3
and i'm thinking now about QT-ing them for 4 weeks now. but how? i forgot how to...? what stuff do i use to QT?


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

bettaluver14 said:


> is it ok that i keep the tank running; like the heater and filter on acting like there are fish in it until i get them?? will that work to keep all the BBs in it and the temp good and comfy for them? i think that might be better to do that and keep an already cycled tank still running so it doesnt dry so i can put the fishies in right away...
> 
> i hope that works :3
> and i'm thinking now about QT-ing them for 4 weeks now. but how? i forgot how to...? what stuff do i use to QT?


I leave my quarantine tanks running continuously, though they can go weeks or even months between being used. However, I do have trumpet snails in all my tanks, so they may help that. Adding a snail wouldn't be a bad idea, though depending on if you have to medicate the fish, you may need to remove it. I do not remove my trumpet snails - they have survived every medication I've ever used, but a mystery snail or something may be more sensitive. Trumpet snails are hard to kill.

4 weeks is at the high end of what most people do, but I think it's totally reasonable. To quarantine fish, you just keep them isolated from the main stock so that you can observe them, and treat them if necessary. Some species have to be converted to whatever food you feed, so quarantine is the perfect place to do that. Neons are not in that category, but many wild fish are. I am more proactive about quarantining than most people. I treat every new fish for ich with heat while they are there. I turn the temp up to 88 degrees for 2 weeks. That ensures that they are ich free - ich can exist as a low level infestation, living in the gills out of sight, so just because the fish isn't showing spots doesn't mean that it's not carrying the parasite. After that I treat the fish with prazipro, for internal parasites. Many medications are harsh, but I have not found this to be. After that, I just watch the fish to make sure that it;s behaving as it should. My quarantine procedures are a bit extreme, compared to most, but like I said I like to make full use of that time.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

jaysee said:


> In order to properly quarantine new fish, they must be put in a tank that's cycled. The purpose of quarantining new fish is to isolate them for treatment, as well as to observe the fishs behavior for signs of problems that are not readily visible. If you expose them to the cycling process, it will be difficult to determine their true behavior. New fish must be made as comfortable as possible so that you can get a true reading on the fish. Sent from Petguide.com App



I disagree. Most people are unable to QT in a cycled environment unless they have multiple tanks at their disposal and a lot of equipment. Also, a full cycle is usually at its best when the BB has objects to cling to, things that are hard or unwise to have in the tank if you are medicating fish. Most of the QT containers I have seen have little to nothing in them. Also, many people find it either impossible or impractical to QT fish in a container that is actually large enough to even have a cycle. Unless you have a 5+ gallon you can't really do a cycle. If anything, your fish are more likely to get sick and display signs of illness in an uncycled environment. It seems to me that having perfect water params is more likely to hide an illness a fish may carry. I have rarely heard of people who are able to do cycled QTs, and I stand by what I said about not being able to cycle a tank in 24 hours. Unless you have a fully planted tank, this seems impossible. Mods, correct me if I am wrong. I was able to QT some of my sorority in cycled environments and their behavior in the permanent tank is radically different than it was in quarantine. I feel that physical signs of illness is a far better indication of their health (except for obvious lethargy or very strange behavior) than behavior.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

bniebetta said:


> I disagree. Most people are unable to QT in a cycled environment unless they have multiple tanks at their disposal and a lot of equipment. Also, a full cycle is usually at its best when the BB has objects to cling to, things that are hard or unwise to have in the tank if you are medicating fish. Most of the QT containers I have seen have little to nothing in them. Also, many people find it either impossible or impractical to QT fish in a container that is actually large enough to even have a cycle. Unless you have a 5+ gallon you can't really do a cycle. If anything, your fish are more likely to get sick and display signs of illness in an uncycled environment. It seems to me that having perfect water params is more likely to hide an illness a fish may carry. I have rarely heard of people who are able to do cycled QTs, and I stand by what I said about not being able to cycle a tank in 24 hours. Unless you have a fully planted tank, this seems impossible. Mods, correct me if I am wrong. I was able to QT some of my sorority in cycled environments and their behavior in the permanent tank is radically different than it was in quarantine. I feel that physical signs of illness is a far better indication of their health (except for obvious lethargy or very strange behavior) than behavior.


A quarantine container? Never heard of such a thing. The vast majority of the fish keeping world (that quarantines their fish) uses cycled quarantine tanks - actual fish tanks. Some keep them running 24/7, some only bring it out when they need it. Those that do the ladder move media from their main tanks filter to the quarantine tanks filter for an instant cycle. It's not magic. Any sized aquarium can maintain a cycle, especially when you transfer seeded media to it. It can be difficult to START a cycle in a tiny tank, that much is true. It is not impossible to keep things in the quarantine tank while you are medicating....you just don't take anything out. It's easy. Depending on the medication, you may not want to put good stuff in there, because it can get stained.

If you have rarely heard of people doing cycled quarantine tanks, then you need to broaden your horizons. Spend some time outside of the betta world. I don't mean to be harsh, but there's a whole big world of fish keeping out there of which you seem to be unaware. You can absolutely cycle a tank in 24 hours by adding seeded media to the filter, as I explained. That will cycle the tank in seconds, if you've moved enough media. I assure you that it is not impossible - people do it every day. That is how I've started all but one (the first one) of the 30 tanks I've had. I certainly hope you don't disregard what I'm telling you because I'm not a mod. There are many, MANY experienced fish keepers that have a wealth of information, who are not mods. And some mods are relatively inexperienced. Do some outside research - it's no secret, there is no shortage of people that will confirm what I'm saying.

Quarantining new fish in an uncycled tank so that diseases manifest themselves is a backwards way to look at it. Fish can actually heal themselves of many ailments - they have an immune system just like we do. If they are provided a cycled tank with a low stress environment with good clean water, it can happen. I bet your bettas behavior was radically different in the show tank versus whatever container you had them in. The fact of the matter is that most peoples quarantine tanks are larger than the tanks that most betta keepers keep their fish in, so I can certainly understand your confusion.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

The terminology is really not relevant on this issue so it's pointless to even argue about that. A container could be a tank, bucket, jar, etc, which people may use to QT. You do not HAVE to QT in a "tank". Seeding new tanks (containers, whatever) does not auto cycle. The BB still have to colonize and adjust to the params so unless you move enough filter media to crash your other tank, you do not have an auto cycle and your fish may still be subjected to slight param changes. 

Because the original question was in context of a very specific forum, I am not incorrect by my response that is applicable to that context, meaning that unless you are breeding or have a ton of fish, it is unlikely that a person on that particular forum has the kind of resources available to use the method you suggest. Judging by the fact that it is only a few tetras and not more than ten suggests to me that there is a chance that this person MAY not have those kind of resources. I never suggested that it was a good idea to QT fish in a uncycled tanks "so that" diseases may manifest, I merely pointed out that diseases are MORE LIKELY to manifest in a slightly less than perfect environment. There is absolutely nothing wrong QTing in an uncycled environment as long as you monitor carefully and keep up with water changes. The fact that you assume that "most people" have larger quarantine tanks than main tanks is a little bit ridiculous. Unless you go and poll every fishkeeper of every scale and experience level, that is an incorrect assumption. I know of a great many people who choose not to do it this way and have healthy active aquariums. If you want to argue that, then go ahead and give us some credible statistics and studies.

And you are correct: being a mod does not mean having more legitimate information as much as having years of fish experience does not indicate correct information, obviously. 

Just because my opinion is different than your does not mean that I am less informed, "confused", or wrong. I was merely stating my opinion for the questioner to compare with. If you want to continue to be condescending and combative, go right ahead. I am not intimidated at all.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Your opinion on cycling tanks with seeded media is uninformed. You don't think it's possible, when it is. Not only is it possible, it is THE recommended method on almost every other fish keeping forum. It will not crash the other tank to do so. You may go on thinking whatever you like - there are still people that think the world is flat, but the correct information has even presented to you, and more importantly to the OP and anyone else that may read this thread. Again, I strongly urge you to do outside research on the matter. Please, DON'T take my word for it.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

jaysee said:


> Your opinion on cycling tanks with seeded media is uninformed. You don't think it's possible, when it is. Not only is it possible, it is THE recommended method on almost every other fish keeping forum. It will not crash the other tank to do so. You may go on thinking whatever you like - there are still people that think the world is flat, but the correct information has even presented to you, and more importantly to the OP and anyone else that may read this thread. Again, I strongly urge you to do outside research on the matter. Please, DON'T take my word for it.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App



YOU may consider it misinformed but that does not mean that it is. The point is that is IS safe to QT in ways other than you are suggesting. The point of this forum is to offer and exchange different perspectives and information. So yeah, don't take this person's word for it.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

Also, what you are working with has a lot to do with it. If you get ten Tetras from the same place, sure, it may be more plausible to put them in a bigger QT environment that is capable of being cycled properly. But, for instance, if you are starting a 20 gallon betta sorority tank, it would be highly impractical, or yes, impossible for a great many people to even have 10 bettas each in even just 5 gallon properly cycled QT tanks. The cost and time involved in maintaining that many tanks is astounding. MOST fishkeepers just don't have that advantage. So no, it is not always recommended to do it that way and is most definitely not always ideal. 

Also, I never said it was impossible. I said it was impractical and impossible for a lot of people, which is true (as has been stated by my example).


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## Bounce (May 26, 2012)

When I QT new fish, I use an empty 10 gallon tank that I keep only for QT purposes. I keep it stored with it's own separate gravel vacuum, heater, thermometer, and net and these are used only for this particular tank and when I need it, I just drag it all out. I also keep a separate little filter rated for 10 gallons running at all times on my main tank (in addition to the canister filter) so that when I need it, it is ready and available and already cycled. This way I can provide new fish with a cycled QT. 

Like jaysee, I also QT any new fish for at least 4 weeks because after I've gone to the trouble to set up a whole new tank, I'm going to make sure any new fish is free of disease before I put it/them in the main tank. It's a lot of trouble but a whole lot less trouble than treating a bunch of sick fish later.


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## djembekah (Feb 13, 2012)

i agree 1000000% with Jaysee.


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

It is possible to quar without cycling the tank, container, or whatever. Just plan on changing a lot of water daily, and using a lot of one of the many products available that contain hydromethane sulfinate or a similar ammonia converting chemical. Run an air supply, don’t even bother with a filter.

Most people won’t do this, and do opt for a quar tank, whether kept running & cycled via various methods, or as jaysee mentioned, cloning. I’ve cloned everything from 2.5 gallon tanks to 150 gallon tubs, all it takes is a bit of understanding how the nitrifying bacteria do their thing, as well as how some of the water products available work. It does amount to an instant cycle, and does not affect the donor tank. I can expand on this a bit, as well as explain how to take a mature tank with 10 fish & safely add 50+ fish without any problems. Trust me, if I’m doing it it’s not rocket science.

To get to the OP's question, I quar 2 weeks from a known source, meaning I know the person, have seen their fishroom & such. Unknown source is 4 weeks, a shop, auction fish & so on. I believe quarantine originally comes from 17th century Latin or some such, meaning 40 days.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm going to point out a few things here. 



bniebetta said:


> I disagree. Most people are unable to QT in a cycled environment unless they have multiple tanks at their disposal and a lot of equipment. Also, a full cycle is usually at its best when the BB has objects to cling to, things that are hard or unwise to have in the tank if you are medicating fish. Most of the QT containers I have seen have little to nothing in them.


Extra tanks are a dime a dozen. All it takes is a quick look on Craigslist to find some extra 10 or even 40 gal tanks laying around. And as you said before, it doesn't have to be a fish tank that you QT fish in. I personally use large tubs. Those are much easier to store. I even use them to hold fishkeeping equipment when they aren't QTing fish. 

Now to your comment about having nothing in a QT tank; this is a terrible idea. Leaving a fish in the open causes stress. Fish, especially small ones like objects to hide behind because it makes them feel safe from predators, real and imagined. A bare tank is not a QT tank. It is not doing what a QT tank should: make the fish comfortable in its new home. De-stress the fish and it will take care of a lot of issues itself. They have pretty good immune systems when they aren't being compromised by stresses of an improper environment. 



bniebetta said:


> Also, many people find it either impossible or impractical to QT fish in a container that is actually large enough to even have a cycle. Unless you have a 5+ gallon you can't really do a cycle.


This may be true for a betta, but this doesn't hold true for _any_ other fish. This includes shoalers like tetra. They actually need a lot more room than most people think. 



bniebetta said:


> If anything, your fish are more likely to get sick and display signs of illness in an uncycled environment. It seems to me that having perfect water params is more likely to hide an illness a fish may carry.


Yes, fish are more likely to get sick in an uncycled tank, but the purpose of QT isn't to bring out the illnesses in fish. It is to heal any that arise. In a good QT fish don't get sick. They are de-stressed enough to heal themselves. I think it would do you good to read this article on stress and fish: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/stress-freshwater-aquarium-fish-98852/



bniebetta said:


> I have rarely heard of people who are able to do cycled QTs, and I stand by what I said about not being able to cycle a tank in 24 hours. Unless you have a fully planted tank, this seems impossible. Mods, correct me if I am wrong.


As jaysee and Tolak said, if you bring over enough media it will cycle the tank. I have done this personally a handful of times. Never had an ammonia spike and all the fish made it through perfectly fine. I've even had gourami spawn in my QT tanks. 



bniebetta said:


> I was able to QT some of my sorority in cycled environments and their behavior in the permanent tank is radically different than it was in quarantine. I feel that physical signs of illness is a far better indication of their health (except for obvious lethargy or very strange behavior) than behavior.


Could this be from the stress that is living in a sorority tank? That is not a low-stress environment. What you saw in a less-stress QT was how they should act and what you are seeing now is how they act under stress. 



bniebetta said:


> --snip--
> Because the original question was in context of a very specific forum, I am not incorrect by my response that is applicable to that context, --snip--.


Yes. It is a betta forum, but these are NOT betta fish that we are talking about. We talking here as if this were a regular fishkeeping forum. This is the advice I would give to ANY fishkeeper getting tetras regardless of whether or not they also keep bettas. The fact that this is a regular fishkeeping subforum on a betta forum is irrelevant. 

I would like to end by saying that MOST fishkeepers I know QT rather strictly. A lot of us have been bitten in the butt by not doing so. We are only passing on our recommendations based on our (sometimes very extensive) experience. 

In this case I would just use a 5 gal tank or a 20 gal tub. Clone the media, and let them stay in the tank for a month. Maybe more if the fish in the tanks look sick. Floating plants whether real or fake will be greatly appreciate, and you can add mirrors to the tank to give the shoalers the appearance of a complete shoal. I've used this trick before, and it works wonders.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

bniebetta said:


> Also, what you are working with has a lot to do with it. If you get ten Tetras from the same place, sure, it may be more plausible to put them in a bigger QT environment that is capable of being cycled properly. But, for instance, if you are starting a 20 gallon betta sorority tank, it would be highly impractical, or yes, impossible for a great many people to even have 10 bettas each in even just 5 gallon properly cycled QT tanks. The cost and time involved in maintaining that many tanks is astounding. MOST fishkeepers just don't have that advantage. So no, it is not always recommended to do it that way and is most definitely not always ideal.
> 
> Also, I never said it was impossible. I said it was impractical and impossible for a lot of people, which is true (as has been stated by my example).


Yes, the fish you are quarantining have a lot to do with it - thank you for bringing that up as it has not been touched on yet. Neon tetras are sensitive to water quality. It is not wise to quarantine sensitive species in uncycled tanks.

EVERY tank that has a fish in it should be cycled (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite). Each and every one. There is no exception. I can't believe that this is even being contested.

The cost and time to maintain a bunch of tanks is not astounding, and I say that as someone who has at one point had 18 tanks running. I know it may seem that way to some, but it really isn't. Honestly, it's more work to do daily water changes and be concerned about poisoning the fish than it is to maintain a dozen fish tanks.

I know you mean well, there is no doubt about that. But you cannot take offense when people call you out on saying things that just aren't true. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but opinions do not trump facts, which means they can be incorrect.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

welp, i am going to try to completely ignore this fat argument that went on. i asked a simple question!
but anywho, for QT-ing my tetras, can i just give them a small dose of AQ salt to treat them...? or should i go out to petsmart and get certain additional meds for them? (IF SO PLEASE NAME)


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## Tolak (Nov 13, 2012)

As I mentioned, if they're from a shop a 4 week quar is advisable. I wouldn't use any salt with them, no reason to and with neons it will do more harm than good. I would not medicate healthy fish either, another thing that can cause more harm than good. 

Running a tank for 24 hours is not cycling, do you have another established tank running?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree. Do not treat healthy fish. Nothing good comes from it. Treat when you see disease. Most preventative treatments are weak and broad spectrum. When you can ID a disease, you can get something powerful and specific.


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Quarantining tetras is no different than quarantining any other farm raised fish - aside from the precautions that I choose to take mentioned in post #5, it's really just a matter of observing the fish and looking for anything that might indicate a problem. Some problems take longer to manifest themselves than others, which is why it's wise to quarantine for at least 4 weeks, like myself and tolak have said. African dwarf frogs, though not a fish, need to be quarantined for at least 3 months if being added to a tank that already has ADFs because of a disease they may have.

In addition to looking for problems, the quarantine period allows the fish to get accustomed to your routines, and de-stress, like thekoimaiden said. For some fish this takes longer than others. For my African knife, it took 3 months before it would even let me see it. I honestly had no idea if it was eating or not during that time. Other fish like barbs and danios, usually take to a tank immediately.

As I mentioned before, many wild fish must be converted to staple foods, which takes time as effort, which is best done in a quarantine tank. It is not good to put a fish in the show tank before you are sure that it is eating well.

There are a lot of things to consider when quarantining, many of which you will learn through experience. There are meds that are good to have on hand, so that you can treat diseases that may show. Gram positive and gram negative antibiotics, anti fungal meds, and an anti parasite med. Bacterial, fungal and parasitic infections are what you are most likely to see. They are things to have on hand in general. But more importantly than all that, is a cycled quarantine tank. I keep coming back to that because it really is the most important aspect.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

okay, got it :-D
and Tolak: yes i have a tank running and ready for incoming tetras so i have no problems with it. i will not add meds unless i see problems, thank u all!!!!!!!


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## themountain (May 9, 2013)

Quarantine , no quarantine...never put Neons together with Bettas...they eat their fins , period!


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

themountain said:


> Quarantine , no quarantine...never put Neons together with Bettas...they eat their fins , period!


I did not find that to be the case when I kept them together, but that was in a 30 gallon tank. There were also flame tetras and black neons in the tank. Tank size is the most important factor - MANY things don't work too well is small tanks, but work well in larger ones. When keeping bettas with other fish, size matters.


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## bettaluver14 (Dec 15, 2012)

i didn't have problems with my betta and tetras together either... i tested their compatibility and they actually liked each other. i'm making sure in my big tank i am going to have plenty of cave, hiding spots, etc.


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