# Want to learn more about Breeding Bettas...



## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

So I've been doing research on breeding Bettas and now I know a lot more than I used to. For example I used to think that you needed a 20 or 30 gallon minimum to breed Bettas but now I know that they can be bred in a 10 gal. I also know:
- How to feed the fry
- How to condition the Bettas
- Culling 
- And The Basics...

I wanted to see if anyone here had any more information. I wondered what I could feed the fry instead of live food. Would frozen brine shrimp do? Also, where would you find a good pair of Halfmoon Bettas locally bred in Canada. Would Halfmoons from the LFS (Big Al's) do? Also, how long or how much work would it take to breed a fish like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKH7QmZM3XQ&feature=related
Could I breed a fish like that starting from pet store fish?

One final question, if I wanted to could I cull some newborn Betta fry to Meat Eating fish because I only want about 10 or so from a batch. I plan on breeding not in the near future but maybe in a few years or so but I wanted to know what I need to buy and basic information.


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

If you get a REALLY GOOD male and female, you could get really good fry in as little as 2-3 spawnings, using only the best you have. Another thing, if you cull the fry when they are still newborn, how do you know if you are culling your best or not? I think you really need to think this over more.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

*What if...*

What if I have too many bad full grown bettas and I don't know what to do with them if I can't find anyone to accept them? I could never kill them...
Also, how long would it take with store bought bettas?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

With store bought bettas, you never know what their background is. You also don't know how old the betta is. It is harder to get good spawns with older fish. The fish can look wonderful, but you don't know what recessives they carry. You will get colors you didn't expect, and tail types too. 
When a baby betta is about 3-4 months old, you should be able to judge how good it is. Some will die on their own in the first few days.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

*Also...*

So by the time they're 3-4 months will they still be small enough to feed to other fish easily? If I can't how do I cull them without um... Killing them. :?

Also, is there any good Halfmoon local breeders (Canada) or (Ontario).


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

I use oscars, but I would never recommend culling perfectly healthy bettas for any reason. I just don't breed the ones I can't sell or give away if I don't believe they are good enough for further breeding.

There are breeders in Canada, you can find them on Aquabid, and there are a few on this forum.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

*Breeding...*

Well I don't plan on starting a elaborate breeding operation. Just maybe a spawn or 2 to see if I could get any nice looking Bettas and try to sell them. For example, if I got a spawn of say... 200 fry what would the final result of living fish be? Would a spawn of that size justify a small amount of culling? I also wanted to know what size jar a fry could live in. Would a normal pet store jar be a good temporary solution?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

It really depends on how healthy the fry are. Sometimes you can lose almost the whole spawn. Usually it's more like 30% are lost due to ill health or other weaknesses.
For jarring, a gallon or 1/2 gallon jar are recommended, of course they need to be cleaned every day or every other day. IMO the pet store jar is way too small.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

So a .5 gallon for each? So for a spawn of 50, 50 .5 gallons!:shock:


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Only males, or overly aggresive females should be separated, the rest should stay in the grow out tank of atleast 20 gallons


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

I thought the fry/grow out tank was 10 gallon minimum?


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## Mo (Mar 15, 2012)

Spawning is 10 gallon minimum, fry grow out for a typical spawn of around 50-70 fry is 20 gallons


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

Also, do you know of any Canadian websites that are like aqua bid?
Okay so I need a 20 gallon grow out tank. So would I need to buy a bigger tank once all the fry are full grown? Also, would that mean around 10-20 .5 gallon tanks for a well sized spawn?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

IMO-It really depends on your goals in what breeding pair you start with.....if you want show quality...then you need to start with the best pair you can afford with genetic history...remembering that not all expensive Bettas on aquabid come with genetic history-some you have to take the word of the breeder as fact and hope they are honest.....
If you get a pair from an IBC member-most likely you will get a good pair, honest breeder even if they don't provide a detailed genetic history.
By starting with genetic known pair from an honest breeder you can continue their line and pretty much know what your spawn will produce.

While starting with a pet store pair with unknown genetic-you can still meet goals, however, it may take several years....personally, mystery genetic IMO are more of a challenge and you can find Bettas in a pet shop that are pretty close to standards-By starting with the unknown be it pet shop or even aquabid it can be a lot of fun seeing what you get from the pairings.....it all in what your goals are.....

If you think you are going to make money or profit with a small scale breeding project....think again.......most likely it will cost you a whole lot more than you will ever make-especially when you factor in your time.

And unless you have a good relationship or talked with the pet shop you plan to use to sell the offspring....usually they may take them for free or for pennies-but usually it is for store credit-this can vary based on quality of the Bettas and demand in your area....Be aware that often they will be used for live foods too.....
Sometimes you can sell or give them away on your own locally or using aquabid-but you will need to factor in shipping supply cost, know how to properly ship etc......

Lots and lots of correct ways/methods to spawn and rear fry...its finding what works best for you, your breeders and what you have on hand.....

I spawn using a natural method in 5-10gal full to the top with water heavy natural planted tanks.
For fry grow out-I used 10-75gal NPT's at different stages of growth/development
Conditioning foods and fry food-I only use live foods-then weaned on processed food
When I cupped/jarred my juvie males- I used pint and quart size canning jars with daily to every other day 100% water changes

Culling-this depends on your goals...personally, I cull hard in stages due to my goals...... also I want quality not quantity.....using large Cichlid is a great method to cull at most stages....

Keep researching.....spawning this species can be a lot of fun and rewarding....


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

It depends on how many males and overaggressive females you get in a spawn.

If you aren't willing or capable of culling a spawn, you really need to rethink trying to breed bettas. I have a halfmoon x crowntail spawn right now, they are a week old. I'll be culling any that show deformities or bent spines, and ones that show the least desirable characteristics. For my goals, that means fish with wildly uneven fins, messy crowntails, crowntails with uneven ray extension, or tails with narrow spreads. Fish that show the best characteristics will be kept for future breeding, and the inbetweens will be offered for sale.

I knew before deciding to do this that I would be required to cull back the spawn. If they were mammals, they would just get sterilised, but that isn't possible with fish, and because of the high potential for suffering these particular fish face, I'd rather cull the undesirables and sell the better ones that would make good pets.

Eventually, I want good crowntails with good coloring, even fins, good ray extension, etc. I've never had a crowntail before because I've never been happy with the ones I've seen for various reasons. So my goal is to make good crowntails with halfmoon spread, even fins, and strong rays.

If you don't have a goal and just want to breed because you want to, it can be much more difficult to make anything back on the spawn. Add in the cost of the live foods you need, keeping the parents in good health, the extra equipment such as airline tubing, filter, aerator, eyedropper and/or baster for spotcleaning the tank, live plants, fake plants, plus the extra water conditioner you'll be using because you'll eventually be doing daily 50-80% water changes, it's going to take a while before you earn back on what you invested in your fish.

I have fish stuff all over my room, I slept with a lamp on for four nights so my male could easily see his eggs and fry to keep them in the nest. It takes roughly 2 hours to do a water change on the fry tank and it's not even 2.5 gallons I'm removing and adding back. The first few days, I fed every few hours, and now I feed three times a day, and feed my male twice (he's still with his spawn). Not to mention the two 15 gallon tanks I have for my other two males and my sorority.

My spawn is only a week old and it's been a heck of a lot of work so far!

If you decide to breed, you need to think long and hard on your end goals and how you're going to accomplish everything you need to do to get healthy fish. I'm starting with petstore fish but I look at aquabid every single day, looking for quality fish I could potentially use to improve what I'm going to be working on. One of those fish is going to cost me around 60 bucks or more because of the cost of the fish itself and the shipping to get it to me.

I first researched breeding when I was a teenager, and I had fish again for four months before I decided, but I spent a lot of time thinking about it beforehand. You need to make sure you can do right by your animals before you jump in.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

Well I was reading about feeding the fry hard-boiled egg yolk and infusoria. Would a combination of those two foods be good for the fry until they can eat adult food? 

Is there a good schedule for feeding the fry? Would something like 8AM, 12PM, 4PM and 8 PM be a good feeding schedule? 

When they turn adults what and how much should I feed them?

I've read that leaving the male turns them out better because he culls the weak fry and causes less fighting among the males by acting as the alpha. I also read that the fry raised with their father turn out less aggressive etc. What do you think?


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

Sly13Cat said:


> Well I was reading about feeding the fry hard-boiled egg yolk and infusoria. Would a combination of those two foods be good for the fry until they can eat adult food?
> 
> Is there a good schedule for feeding the fry? Would something like 8AM, 12PM, 4PM and 8 PM be a good feeding schedule?
> 
> ...


No they are micro foods that should only be fed during the first week. Move on to BBS at week 2 and then at about 5-6 weeks they can eat chooped frozen blood worms, and at around 8 weeks they should be able to eat small pellets.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

So is BBS the only thing I could feed them at 2 weeks? Is there anything easier to obtain? I also heard that it's possible to overfeed on BBS...


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## MrVampire181 (May 12, 2009)

I only use BBS since it has a lot of nutrients.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

So do you know of any good alternatives which are easy to obtain?


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

I've never used them, but theres things like daphnia, grindal worms, banana worms, walter worms. Not sure if any of those are the same thing, but I know those are more popular fry foods. I had a recent spawn of 218, but its down to 180, so the numbers can go down quite a bit. If you're looking for some nice canadian fish, I'd suggest Canada Betta (Ontario area, you have to translate the page, it's in french -_-) http://www.canadabetta.com/, Or Canadian Aqua Farm in BC www.canadianaquafarm.com. Maple Ridge I believe. I've got a few males from him because I'm closer than Canada Betta. Good luck!


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

If I haven't already asked this I would like to know 2 things:

Would removing the female before she releases all of her eggs be a good thing to help curb the fry spawned?

and

Would leaving the dad with the fry be better. I heard that he'll cull the weak fry, cause less fighting among males by acting as the alpha and the fry males will become better fathers etc. What do you think?

Also, would starting a small scale breeding operation make it so you earn a little money after a while selling HIGH quality halfmoon bettas right from the beginning?


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

Anyone?


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## tpocicat (Aug 8, 2011)

The things you are asking is a matter of opinion. What works best for one may not work best for another. 
I prefer to remove the female once the spawning is done. The male I leave in until the fry are free swimming. He will cull any bad eggs and weak fry before he has been removed.


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## Sly13Cat (Feb 1, 2012)

Anyone?


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

I would let the spawning finish because many eggs will naturally be infertile, especially for inexperienced fish, and also because you WILL have a die off. If you stop them early, you won't get as many strong, healthy eggs and fry, so the die off will leave you with even fewer good, strong fry to choose from. Your best bet is to cull out the weak, small, deformed etc fry yourself.

Tpocicat is right, this is all opinion and asking everyone what they think about breeding practices likely won't get your any closer to a hard answer.


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