# Is this considered red-loss?



## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm clueless with genetics but still trying to learn. My spawn is from a DeT turquoise x CT bicolour/mostly blackish with iridescent steel blue scales and all red fins

http://i.imgur.com/Xl16glNl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c6HKKafl.jpg (she turned out really weird looking eventually..very big http://i.imgur.com/360bUczl.jpg )
I was expecting royal blue fish with a red wash on their fins..if anything at least on their pelvic fins with the assumption that the red gene is dominant and they both have red?









This is kinda what I expected em to look like, he is the biggest and brightest coloured (sorry for the torn fins, not caused by surrounding tank mates )



































However this guy looks very interesting as he grows... but to be honest, I dont remember any standout males lacking red a few weeks ago...and I stare at them every day..I had some pretty uniform blue females, but not anything like this guy... 








Really really nice looking, a smoky black/clear at the edge and on the pelvics as well. Would he be considered red loss (which is dom, but I dont see a lot of fish at all looking like this)? Im looking through all my photos I take of them regularly and cannot find the same fish colour >_> Or is this a possible outcome from the spawn due to their colour? I dont know the parents genetics.









This is an interesting one too, she has the smokey fins too with no blue or red except that iridescent area..which is a lighter shade compared to anyone else


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Sure is red loss :-D. Sometimes the red wash can come back when the fish gets older


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Royal blues with red wash.. the red will come and go, usually come rather than go sadly. I got a DTHM a while back and he was all royal blue, but within a week he had lots of pink which then turned to red. So have him with a green girl with no red hoping to remove the red as much as possibly down the line.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

I was actually reading an article about red-loss last night so it was pretty interesting to see this thread.

Myates, thats too bad about your DTHM male, hopefully it won't take too many generations to remove the red from the line (btw, I'm a little obsessed with DTHMs and would love to see pics of yours if they're posted anywhere, I really want to get back into breeding, this time with specific goals and a much clearer idea of what I'm trying to accomplish both short-term and long-term, breeding for tail forms, colors, and patterns that I really love--which means DTHMs would have a large role in my program lol). 

Vier, how old are the babies now (or I guess in the pics posted)? I'm guessing that since you were expecting the spawn to be blue with a red wash that you paired those two hoping thats what would be produced, correct? Will you be using any of the babies from this spawn as breeders or is that something you're waiting to decide on? For what its worth, in the 2nd pic you linked I actually like the 2nd green and yellow/gold female a lot. Of course, I'm very biased towards that color combo in general so my opinion isn't very objective .


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Laurenie - currently have him in a tank with a green cellophane girl with no red in her genes, so hoping they (both virgins) figure things out.. try to get some different blues/greens DTs and DT genes, then continue from there to work out that red.  Don't have a current picture of him, not of him flaring anyways.. but will get some new ones if they end up breeding (for my records)


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Myates said:


> Laurenie - currently have him in a tank with a green cellophane girl with no red in her genes, so hoping they (both virgins) figure things out.. try to get some different blues/greens DTs and DT genes, then continue from there to work out that red.  Don't have a current picture of him, not of him flaring anyways.. but will get some new ones if they end up breeding (for my records)


I'll definitely be keeping my fingers crossed for them! Turquoise/green is probably my favorite color in bettas, either solid or in combination with black, white, cello, yellow, gold--ya know 

I actually have a HMDT turquoise/green male w/no red that also has pretty good body form and finnage (to the best of my judging abilities)...unfortunately I found him at Petco lol. I need to get pics of him also, I have a few but I'm a pretty awful photographer and gave up before long. Maybe that can be my goal for today--get at least one decent pic of my turquoise HMDT and most recent Petco impluse-buy addition, a DT tri-color (turquoise/green body, fins have patches of green, black, and white/cello spread in random patches, no red on him either) male, I'm also *pretty* positive that he's actually a HMDT since his spread def reaches 180*, but his cup was labeled as "just" DT, which is fine, that meant he was only $6.99 vs. $13.99


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## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

The green/yellow is a nice female mustard.. shes actually blue without flash. I wanted to breed her but I dont have any males (I have a super black? PK and a dark blue bicolor black fins DeT), and she isnt looking so hot at the moment. 

For this spawn I just wanted to play with combtails... its my first time breeding and I know its not advisable but I do enjoy the look of them. That boy is my keeper right now because his tail looks the nicest so far (plus some other females) and I just want to wait a while and work on something else to see if that red comes back and how long those fins get. 

I found a white DTEE at petco yesterday labeled as DT. Thought that would make some interesting genes but he didnt look good shapewise.


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## Laurenie (Aug 5, 2010)

Vier said:


> The green/yellow is a nice female mustard.. shes actually blue without flash. I wanted to breed her but I dont have any males (I have a super black? PK and a dark blue bicolor black fins DeT), and she isnt looking so hot at the moment.
> 
> For this spawn I just wanted to play with combtails... its my first time breeding and I know its not advisable but I do enjoy the look of them. That boy is my keeper right now because his tail looks the nicest so far (plus some other females) and I just want to wait a while and work on something else to see if that red comes back and how long those fins get.
> 
> I found a white DTEE at petco yesterday labeled as DT. Thought that would make some interesting genes but he didnt look good shapewise.


Aww thats too bad that she's not looking so great. And personally I don't have issues with other people choosing to breed something thats generally not recommended and all that as long as they take responsibility for it and are aware of the risks/consequences--which it sounds like are and were from the start. A few years ago I did pretty much the same thing, I just kind of wanted to "play around", and my first 2 spawns were petstore bettas that weren't even "good" examples of petstore fish. I stopped after my 3rd spawn because even though I'd actually obtained a few pairs of nice bettas from a respected breeder, I just wasn't ready to "commit" yet, I still wasn't ready. Now I'm back lol, and really want to start breeding, but this time with goals and a purpose, ya know? 

For whatever reason I've never really been drawn to CTs or combtails, but every once in a while I'll see one that just strikes me as being incredibly beautiful, making me reconsider them lol. And you did end up with several really cool little bettas that will be very interesting to watch develop, plus you even have experience with red-loss now  

And yeah, Petco has been getting in some interesting bettas, some of them in a good way, some not so good lol. I see tons of really bad DTs and HMDTs in particular, probably because they're pretty easy to "mess up". I think thats also part of what interests me so much about them, the challenge of producing really nice ones is something that will keep me on my toes.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Laurenie said:


> I'll definitely be keeping my fingers crossed for them! Turquoise/green is probably my favorite color in bettas, either solid or in combination with black, white, cello, yellow, gold--ya know
> 
> I actually have a HMDT turquoise/green male w/no red that also has pretty good body form and finnage (to the best of my judging abilities)...unfortunately I found him at Petco lol. I need to get pics of him also, I have a few but I'm a pretty awful photographer and gave up before long. Maybe that can be my goal for today--get at least one decent pic of my turquoise HMDT and most recent Petco impluse-buy addition, a DT tri-color (turquoise/green body, fins have patches of green, black, and white/cello spread in random patches, no red on him either) male, I'm also *pretty* positive that he's actually a HMDT since his spread def reaches 180*, but his cup was labeled as "just" DT, which is fine, that meant he was only $6.99 vs. $13.99


Placed them together late yesterday morning, released her in the evening.. at this moment they are embracing and he is placing eggs into the nest  Second best time for virgins figuring it out for me lol. 

I will take pics of them after they are both removed and destressed.. she seems to only have one, maybe two nips at her. So she should be picture worthy.. him, unsure yet lol


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## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

Managed to get a semiflare from him and I am so pleased with how he looks for an F1
I really really hope that the tail combs do not lengthen too much more. Hes not perfect but hes the closest to what I was wanting. Theyre 10 weeks old now.. so its gunna fill out more but fingers crossed ><



























The photos make his top line look better than what it actually is..alas!


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

As stated above, most red wash appear at a later age. The pale looking fish with black lines is most probably a submissive color which will color up (royal blue) once she gains aggressiveness. But I've had a few that are actually that color and would only color up slightly when flaring.


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## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

This baby was sold 3 weeks ago, I told her I thought it was a boy.. those are just stress stripes because I had just netted him, he was all blue.
owner took a recent pic of him and oh my!









Looks the same as the one I posted above  All the red in him is gone apparently.


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## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

One more update! 

11 weeks old today compared to 9 weeks from the boy who had the most red.


















(same fish as the first pic in my original post)

I wonder if and when their red will show up again.!


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Myates said:


> Royal blues with red wash.. the red will come and go, usually come rather than go sadly. I got a DTHM a while back and he was all royal blue, but within a week he had lots of pink which then turned to red. So have him with a green girl with no red hoping to remove the red as much as possibly down the line.


Don't spawn to green, spawn instead to steel.


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