# Aggressive alpha..



## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

So the alpha female in my Sorority (Amitrine) is a picker. She is constantly chasing the others from the surface, and for no reason obvious to me, chases them around the tank, sometimes doing a tiny bit of fin damage. She doesn't even give them a warning flare first. She is much larger then all the other fish in the tank (nearly 3 times the size of my smallest female)...should (can) i remove her or is this just normal for an alpha female?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Short term answer:

Get a breeder's net ASAP (about $4.00 US, looks like a net box, hangs on the inside of the tank), put it in the sorority tank and put the bitey betta in it!

That will give everyone else in the sorority a much needed break!

Long term answers require some questions of you:

How big is the sorority?

How long has it been set up?

Which betta(s) went in first? In what order were the other girls added?

There are more questions, but we'll see what these answers are first


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

its a 20 gallon tall with 7 bettas and 2 coreydoras.
Its been set for just over a week.
The lease aggressive 4 went in first, then the 2 next aggressive, then the single most aggressive (the alpha).

only 1 or 2 of the most shy have any stress signs.


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

Anything else?


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Whoops, sorry... got dragged away from the computer...

Your tank size is fine. My sorority is also in a 20H. 

Each betta is an individual... so there is no 'normal', really - just typical breed behavior. My Alpha is leader/teacher... she is kind and gentle, although she may give a young upstart a waring nip if they are need of one! She is the largest girl and the oldest in the tank.

Your Alpha may develop similar traits, or not. What concerns me is that her overly aggressive behavior may be suppressing the development of the other bettas in the tank... one of which may make a better leader for the sorority.

Watch your Alpha in the net breeder. Look for signs of illness - ill fish can be more aggressive. Also watch to see if any of the other fish are hanging around the net - if they have an interest in her. When the other bettas are comfortable with the Alpha and they are ready to accept her, they should consistently hang around the net to keep her company.

While the Alpha is confined, the other bettas will work out their hierarchy. Release the Alpha one a week, after a 30% water change and all the bettas have been well fed. If she behaves, let her stay out. If not, back to the net breeder she goes for another week.

Continue to do this until the Alpha chills out and gets along with others. If she's determined to be a monster, then she'll need to be removed to her own tank.

The dynamics in sororities are always changing, depending on growth, health, water conditions and so on. Sororities are challenging for this reason. The more you watch your girls, the more you'll understand what's going on in there! 

There can be nasty fights... even the best sorority keepers have had horrible losses that just 'came out of the blue'. It helps if your tank water is as fresh as you can keep it, so the fish are less stressed. The bettas also need their tank to be heavily planted, with lots of caves and stuff to hide in. 

Finally, the more bettas, the better... larger groups tend to be less territorial. Currently I have 12 girls in my 20H, with three cory cats... but, I also upped my filtration considerably and am committed to 30% water changes (min) every week.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

I still have to go and get the breeders net, iv been dealing with horses and broken fences :/. 
Are there any household materials i could use to make one? 

I noticed that when i leave the light off, she lets everyone come to the surface and hang out, but once i turn it on she chases everyone away again.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Having the light turned off is less stressful for the fish. You could just light the tank with room light, and leave the tank light off for now.

You say the Alpha goes into monster mode when the light is on? Does she associate the light with food? If this is the case, you may want to net her when the tank light goes on. If you net her every time that light comes on, she will associate the light coming on with being netted, and she will learn to hang back and let the other girls go first. 

For now, you can isolate her in a plastic container that is floated in the sorority tank. Tape the container to the side of the tank to 'anchor it'. Cover the top with plastic wrap (but be sure the betta can get fresh air). The wrap will keep her in isolation, and keep the other bettas from jumping in (yes, they do silly things like that)!

A net breeder that is commercially made is high enough to discourage unauthorized exits and entrances, and the net overlaps the top of breeder in such a way as to further hinder such occurrences. You might be able to replicate something similar with plastic straws and new clean nylons, but it doesn't sound like you've got that much free time on your hands!

Whatever you do, do not settle for a plastic three or four way breeder - they have no tops, so the fish can jump out or in. I had a betta girl lose her anal fin after she jumped into an aggressive betta's plastic breeder (after much TLC she recovered, but it was an awful experience).

Good luck with the fences and horses and nets and bettas!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

haha free time  such an oxymoron.

She is odd, when i feed, she dosnt chase anyone away...just goes after her pellet and ignores everyone else. 

all right, i will cup her.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Once the Alpha is cupped, you'll see the sorority dynamics start to change.

I'll be looking forward to your sorority updates! Good luck!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

Well shes been cupped since 4, and she is mad at me haha.

The others flocked around her cup right away, but then they all scatterd. My middle sized female, Tormaline, seems to have assumed alpha right now.
Every one takes turns going up to Ami's cup and noseing around her. 
Before i cupped her, everyone had stress stripes, now no one has any...infact my purple CT and my purple DBLT are the darkest shade iv ever seen them


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Hooray! Sounds like things are off to a great start!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

Yup, Hopefully i can get out tomorrow and get a breeders net for her.
Thank you for the help. 

With the alpha position filled, is she less likely to be accepted back later?

A little back ground on her.
I tried breeding her to 3 different males in the past, and after about an hour she lost interest in them. They would flare at her, and she would ignore them totally.


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## MaggieLynn (Jun 24, 2011)

This is some good info, i woke up this morning to notice two of my girls were missing some chunks of fin after i fight im guessing, they are both in their own QT tank, but in my 10 gal are the other 3. Im wondering if its ok to leave the three in there because i thought that little number of girls was not good


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

you want at least 4. 


oh reminds me.
previously, i thought 3 was an ok number, so i had Ami, Beni and a little red girl. Ami killed her.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

GunsABlazin said:


> With the alpha position filled, is she less likely to be accepted back later?


Not necessarily. Remember each betta is an individual, and sorority behavior is very fluid (and not just because the tank is filled in water)!


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

Lol, nice.

Well, i hope she can fit back in later...i would have to find some one to take her if she couldnt. I have room for her to be alone, but i would have to move my other female into the tank.


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

MaggieLynn said:


> This is some good info, i woke up this morning to notice two of my girls were missing some chunks of fin after i fight im guessing, they are both in their own QT tank, but in my 10 gal are the other 3. Im wondering if its ok to leave the three in there because i thought that little number of girls was not good


I would 'cup' the three other bettas individually and float their containers in the sorority until everyone makes it back to the tank. Anchor the cups to the tank side with tape, and cover the cups with plastic wrap (make sure the bettas can get fresh air) to prevent escapes/intrusions. 

10 gallon sororities are very dicey, because of the low number of fish in the sorority if one or two are removed... and low numbers increase aggression and territorial behavior.


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## GunsABlazin (Jun 1, 2011)

yes, that's why i got my 20g


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

this thread is interesting... i just got my 10 girls in my 20g. good luck with your girls!


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## Here Fishy Fishy Fishy (Oct 29, 2010)

Lunawatsername,

*"Slugger and the Tag Alongs"*

Sounds like a name for a late 1950's/early 1960's band!


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## lunawatsername (Apr 20, 2011)

haha yea xDDD thats what i thought too, but a lot of people dont get it when i tell them, they just way it sounds odd lol


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## MaggieLynn (Jun 24, 2011)

GunsABlazin said:


> you want at least 4.
> 
> 
> oh reminds me.
> previously, i thought 3 was an ok number, so i had Ami, Beni and a little red girl. Ami killed her.


Well it doenst matter anymore, on of the ones in QT developed ick and well they all have it. so no one is in my 10 gal. they are all in 1gal or 3/4 gal QT's :roll: they did seem fine though when they were in, because the two that are the most aggressive were separated. But oh well.


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