# help please betta sick



## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

like you i have a betta fish have had him for nearly 3 years now he has been sick for quite some time i always thought it was just because he was so old but recently i got him a new tank w/heater filter plants and stuff so hes not cramped in his old bowl and i took an interest into why he isnt swimming around so much

symptoms: lays at bottom of bowl all day comes up for air thats it
runs directly into the gravel when he swims back down
barely eats and spits out his food alot
looks pale
he may be losing some of his fins im not quite sure

i have pics of him from his old bowl it was small i am sorry i try
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ijqdfm.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2q8zo69.jpg


if you can tell me what he most likely has and how to treat it i will do my best to treat him right away i have very few local fish stores but if it can be found at walmart or on the web if u know where to help me out


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Poor thing. Can you tell me how big his container is now and how often you change the water? Do you have a water test kit? He's probably sick due to complications stemming from ammonia poisoning--when you look at him from above, do his scales stick out from his body at all, even slightly like a pinecone, or is the fish perfectly smooth? In one of the pictures they look like they're starting to stick out a bit--this can be a sign of organ failure.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

Adastra said:


> Poor thing. Can you tell me how big his container is now and how often you change the water? Do you have a water test kit? He's probably sick due to complications stemming from ammonia poisoning.


he has a 1.5 gal tank all to himself now i cant really afford anything bigger it has a heater and i keep track of temp + run ait filter but i dont test the water and i change it once a month but its still new


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

No wonder. 

Fish constantly excrete a poisonous substance called ammonia from their gills--it's basically how fish urinate. In nature, this ammonia is diluted by large quantities of water and it is consumed by live plants, and converted into less toxic compounds by beneficial bacteria. In small tanks where there's no bacteria, no plants, and not much water to dilute the ammonia, the tank can very quickly become a toxic deathsoup. 

A 1.5 gallon container needs to be changed and cleaned every other day. This sounds like a lot, but ammonia is highly toxic. The only safe amount of ammonia to have in your water is 0, nothing, and the only way to do this in a tank this small is by very frequent 100% water changes and cleanings. When you do your water change, you should put your fish in another container, dump out the old water and wash everything in the tank, including decorations, plants, gravel, and the tank itself with hot water so that all of the feces, uneaten food, and ammonia residue is washed away, then fill the tank with tap water that is the same temperature of the water you poured out. Add dechlorinator and wait about 5 minutes for the nitrogen to outgas. Then you should float your fish in the water. Over the course of about 20 minutes, you should pour the old water out of the betta cup, and pour in new water from the tank to replace it at intervals until the cup is filled with new water. Then it is safe to release your fish.

For now, I would change the water that your fish is in immediately and do water changes every other day from now on. You should hopefully see some improvement if the fish isn't already in organ failure. If you can find it, some methylene blue should help. It's a good treatment for ammonia poisoning and should help fight off any external parasites that might be bothering him. Try to get a methylene blue medication that has no other ingredient aside from methylene blue itself.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

from what i read it just seems like he has ICK

i agree with what you said and will try to change his water much more but some of that stuff isnt within my power and i know this sounds very cruel but he has been like this for most of his life so if he was going to have organ failure i think it would have already happened

i care alot about this fish and am going to try my best to make it better but changing his water once every other day doesn't seem like it will help


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

What's the point of asking for advice if you aren't going to take it? I'm sorry if I seem rude, but you're simply ignoring logic for your own convenience and your fish is going to die because of it. I've cared for many bettas for many years, I'm not telling you this because I have nothing better to do than tell lies to people over the internet for my own amusement. I want to help you. 

I can tell from the picture that his scales are beginning to stick out, when they should be perfectly flat without any definition. This occurs as a result of fluid buildup--this fluid builds up under the skin because the kidneys have been damaged and can no longer regulate the fluids going in and out of the fish. If you would like, you can look it up yourself. This is a condition called dropsy. 

From what I can see, the fish does not have ich. If it did, I wouldn't be surprised since ich is also caused by complications due to ammonia poisoning. Ich looks like small white salt-like grains scattered all over the fish.

This happened because you won't face the facts. Think about it, what would happen if you lived in a sealed closet, and your pee was vapor instead of liquid, and someone only opened the door once a month. Oh, and imagine that the only water you were given had pee in it, too, since fish have to drink in their tank water. Your lungs would burn, and the poison would wear on your system until you were dead. It would be extremely painful, the ammonia would prick at your skin, it would burn your eyes and your nose. 

The idea that my theory isn't possible because the fish has been like this for so long is pure ignorance--bettas are very resilient fish compared to other tropical species. They can take a lot of abuse, but it doesn't mean you should intentionally torture them with prolonged ammonia exposure.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

ok im heading to local fish store right now to pick up some methlyne blue i called them and gave them a head's up to make sure they had it and im going to change his water today and hopefully atleast once a week i have no idea how im going to make sure its the same temperature though 

like i said i have had this fish for nearly 3 years and i want nothing more then for him to be better thats the entire reason i bought him a new tank to begin with i feel bad for him 

if you have any other advice or things i should be doing let me know

this is a picture of his current living environment
http://chotto.ath.cx/uploads/happfrank.png

filter ont he right heater on the left 

i have very limited funds which i am now going to spend on medication that cost 2x as much as the fish do(as the clerk at the store so kindly told me)


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm not 100% sure it's going to be that helpful if the fish is already in organ failure. You might also want to consider picking up some epsom salts to help relieve some of the fluid buildup. Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, and it is a diuretic--it might help him turn around if he still has it in him.

Even if it doesn't cure him, it will make him more comfortable during the time he has left. I use a thermometer to tell the temperature. If you cannot get a thermometer, you can put the cup with the old water and the betta in it next to the new water--dip your finger in the old water and then dip your finger in the new water immediately--if you feel a temperature difference, adjust the water until they feel the same to you. It's not a perfect system, but it should be good enough. 

Betta keeping really isn't a cheap hobby, as I'm sure you've learned. The fish itself is the cheapest purchase you will make. But keep in mind that when you buy a fish and purchase equipment to go along with him, you're making an investment. Bettas can live upwards of 7 years when they're given proper care. Quality equipment can help you greatly reduce the amount of work and future expenses you have to cover. There are some really great ways that I've learned to cut costs--ordering online, using craigslist and freecycle whenever possible, and repurposing non-aquarium items. Some of the best betta tanks out there aren't actually fish tanks at all--plastic storage bins are only about $3 for 4 gallons of space for your fish to roam.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

ok what ive done is purchased some fresh water aqarium salt and i coulndt get that methelyne blue or w/e it was if i can purchase it online cheap somewhere i will buy asap called several stores none had it

so if u can link me or i can do my own research in a bit im commited to trying to make sure he lives a full life and will look into possible larger tanks in the future

right now im changing his water adding the salt and hoping for the best


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## Alex09 (Aug 9, 2010)

> Betta keeping really isn't a cheap hobby


You can say that again - I have already spent over $50 (10 gal tank, decor, live plants) on my little guy. Not to mention the price of the fish himself which was around $13...
Yeah, its kindof sad how alot of people see bettas and goldfish as "disposable" fish.

And I think its a miracle your fish managed to survive in that tiny little bowl for 3 years! How often did you clean it?

Hope your fish gets well


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

Alex09 said:


> You can say that again - I have already spent over $50 (10 gal tank, decor, live plants) on my little guy. Not to mention the price of the fish himself which was around $13...
> Yeah, its kindof sad how alot of people see bettas and goldfish as "disposable" fish.
> 
> And I think its a miracle your fish managed to survive in that tiny little bowl for 3 years! How often did you clean it?
> ...


it's kind of an embarrassing question but i honestly dont know he use to have a much larger bowl atleast twice the size but my mom brought home that one and it was much more see threw and i had always thought betta fish preffered small spaces because of territory and stress issues

if i had to guess sometimes not for 2 months  i have honestly been much better about it tho i first got the fish when i just turned 19 me my girlfriend at the time my best friend and his girlfriend at the time decided to steal ourselves some betta fish kind of as a joke but mostly just to have a nice pet

i am now 21 turning 22 soon he is still around and i wish i had taken better care of him my best friend/roomate's died over 2 years ago 

this is my attempt to make up for doing wrong to the poor little guy even with my work and other schedule conflicts i will do 50% and full water changes atleast twice a week (one each) and try to do more hopefully this salt and medicine i plan on getting help him out i would love to see him healthy and swimming around with his fins out again


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Mmm.. Unfortunately aquarium salt isn't epsom salt.. aquarium salt is sodium chloride, it's just like table salt that hasn't been iodized. It's meant for treating open wounds--and it will actually make your fish's dropsy worse. I would return it to the store. Sorry you got confused, maybe I should have been more clear.

Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, so it's really not "salt" at all. You can find it at a grocery store or a pharmacy since people use it also. 

I always try to order whatever I can online, you end up saving money because pet stores have a lot more overhead--they have utilities, lots of employees to pay, the mortgage on their store, and everthing else that goes into maintaining a store along with keeping all of the items you want in stock. Online companies don't have as many costs to keep up with, and they pass the savings on to the customer. I order from this site: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/fish-supplies/pr/c/3578

Their selection is great, most items are marked down $10 or more compared to pet store prices, and everything ships to you for a very reasonable flat rate, no matter how much stuff you buy at once. They have pure methylene blue here: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4822

I'm going to take a moment to level with you, though. If this fish is in organ failure like I think it is, his prognosis is grim. It's unlikely that the methylene blue will bring him back. The epsom salt will help, but even under expert care, the overwhelming majority of fish who reach this stage don't make it. Before you do anything else, take a good look at your fish--just to make sure I'm not wrong somehow. Are the scales perfectly flat with no definition? Do they stick up even slightly? 

If so, I would just keep the water clean and use the epsom salt. If the dropsy gets worse, you should euthanize him. If it comes to that, I can give you instructions on how to do it humanely.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

k i apperciate all the help you have given me but you might have to help me with this decision on his scales

this is a 2 minute old picture taken on a 12 megapixel camera its the best i can get i will say in his tank his scales dont looked raised at all but th epicture they seem to be slightly raised
http://i56.tinypic.com/2day3d4.jpg

i could be wrong like i said he looks smooth in his tank


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

oh and how much epsom salt should i be adding and how frequently?


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

Is there any way that you can get a picture of the top of the fish? Like, looking down on it from above? It's the best way to tell.

This will depend on whether the fish really has dropsy. The way your fish was laying in the second picture made me think that he's in the early stages. If he is, there are two possible treatment options: 

Epsom Salt Bath: In a separate container, prepare water of the same temperature or use water from the betta’s tank and dissolve 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per gallon. Slowly adjust the betta to the water over about 5 minutes--acclimation time is much shorter because the fish shouldn’t be exposed to this amount of Epsom salt for too long--then allow the betta to sit in the bath for 15 minutes. Carefully monitor the betta, and remove him or her if they show signs of distress. Consider changing the water in the betta’s tank during the bath so that the fish will have clean water to recover in. This treatment can be repeated once in the same day, but if repeated, the duration of the bath should be shortened to 5-10 minutes. 

Epsom Salt Leave-in Treatment: In a separate container, prepare water of the same temperature, and mix in one tablespoon per five gallons of dissolved Epsom salt. Acclimate the fish to the salted water for at least a half hour. Alternatively, if you used water from the betta’s tank, you can transfer the betta into the water directly and dissolve the salt in another container--slowly adding the dissolved salts to the water over the course of at least a half hour. The duration of this treatment is three to five days--during this time, do water changes as necessary, replacing the dissolved salts as necessary.


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## fishman12 (Sep 1, 2010)

If you have a filter, remove it while you are putting in medications. Also, how much are you feeding him? What type of food(ex. flake, pellet, etc.)? Brand? Definitely follow Adastra's advice, s/he knows what s/he is talking about.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

fishman12 said:


> If you have a filter, remove it while you are putting in medications. Also, how much are you feeding him? What type of food(ex. flake, pellet, etc.)? Brand? Definitely follow Adastra's advice, s/he knows what s/he is talking about.


he eats freeze dried blood worms and these random wardley betta essential food pellets u can google it if needed i also have tropical fish flakes laying around i dont give him to often cuz when he doesn't eat them they kind of get messy

also im going to try and take a picture of him from the top when i can but its a little harder


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

this is the pic from the top and im happy to say they look pretty smooth

http://boonce.org/up/GEDC0003.JPG


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

He's really, really, thin. Is he eating at all? 

Freeze dried bloodworms don't have much nutritional value. They're basically for an occasional snack. If you can get him over to the pellets instead that would be better. Or you could try to find frozen bloodworms in the freezer at the petstore. They flip for frozen bloodworms.


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

It's still really hard to tell if he's in the early stages of dropsy from that picture--the reason why I thought it was dropsy was because of this picture: http://i52.tinypic.com/2q8zo69.jpg -- from this angle, the scales behind his head look like they're sticking up a bit, when they shouldn't be. I'm not 100% sure he's got it, but I'm not 100% sure he hasn't to a small degree. If he does have it, it will look like this: http://www.flippersandfins.net/Images/DropsyTop.jpg if you look at him from that angle, it makes it easier to tell. If he definitely doesn't have it, then you don't really need the epsom salt treatment--it's still good to have around the house, though--it's great for exfoliating your skin and soaking your feet in or bathing in after a long day, lol. 

It's a shame you couldn't find the methylene blue--fish stores don't seem to realize how helpful that chemical can be in a lot of different situations. At this point we can only hope that super super clean water will help him pull through. I agree with vaygirl that you could probably do a lot more to help him diet-wise--a good high quality pellet along with frozen foods will help give him the nutrients he needs to recover. I recommend these pellet brands: OmegaOne Betta Buffet Pellets (my favorite), Atison's Betta pellets, Ken's betta crumbles, and New Life Spectrum. You may want to supplement these with frozen foods--you can find them in the freezer of your pet or fish store. I use Hikari's frozen blood worms, brine shrimp, and daphnia a few times a week. 

Live foods also can provide your fish with a shot of protein and they're great for fish who are on death's door since the wiggling motion of live prey will stimulate their appetite--some pet stores sell live blackworms or blood worms. Make sure that you rinse each worm in tank water before giving them to your betta since they are sometimes kept in very nasty conditions. In order to keep mine alive I drain water out of the bag and put the worms in a dry tupperware container, then wet a paper towel with some tank water and put it in the container. This allows them to stay moist without drowning. Poke a few holes in the lid for air and put the container in the refrigerator. The worms will stay alive for about a week--once they start to die off, you should throw them away, though.


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

ok ill check prices for more high quality fish food on that website you gave me i will try and get him some better pellets and more freeze dried blood worms 

as for live bait maybe ill try 1 step at a time but i do need to know how often and how much he is suppose to eat


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## Adastra (Jun 18, 2010)

I usually do 2 pellets twice a day, or 3 pellets once a day. When I feed blood worms, I give them 4 once a day, brine shrimp 3 since they have so much more fiber in them. 

Does your fish still show interest in food?


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## Itsonme (Sep 3, 2010)

today he ate a pellet the second i put it into his tank i usually give him 3 pellets a day or a pinch of blood worms alot of the time i dont see him eat them right away not sure what happens to them

in all honesty he seems to be slightly better only after 2 days with his new 1.5gal tank and water changes im using epsom and aquarium salt still havent ordered the methylene blue will do tomorrow since its ganna be sunday anyway

another thing i noticed i did want to mention was he sometimes just twitches like jerks his body in one direction a few times b4 he lets himself sink to the bottom again


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