# "What if you bred..." thread



## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Many of us here would love to learn more about the genetics of color and finnage transmission and what one might expect from breeding certain pairs. This seems to be a common question on this board, and I think it would be useful to have an entire thread of such questions and see what the pros had to say about what to expect, as it would help those of us newer to the hobby to learn.

New breeders are curious about the transmission of colors, patterns, and tail types--and of course want to avoid faults that they might not otherwise see. If you respond, can you provide rough percentages of colors, patterns, etc., and the reasons one could expect them?

Thank you so much to any pros who choose to respond to this thread. You are doing new breeders a big service!


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

If I may, I will start the thread off with a pair I am contemplating on Aquabid this morning. I will bid on them if the experts think the results would be favorable.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Breeders: If any of you would like to post pictures of spawns you've done, with what the results were and why, that would be enormously useful, as well. The main goal of this thread is to give beginning breeders information that will help them make their own good breeding choices without having to ask about each potential match.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

The female has terrible form as foes the male I would not choose these for breeding


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

We will need a few hints, like is he a dragon, a marble, etc. Better yet, what is his background. I don't trust pictures because they don't always give the fish justice or the opposite, good lighting will make the betta brighter. And light angles can show different color reflections.

I'm guessing he is a blue dragon marble. Looks as if he was a result of regular x dragon cross - at least 2 generations before him. The cellophane implies he also has cambodian background. I could be wrong. 

The female too seems to be of similar background. She is possibly his sibling. She is showing white as well as cellophane. This could mean anything. I doubt she has opaque background though. I'm guessing more to a fancy background.

Color probabilities would include; royal blue (probably very few solid), fancy mixes, cellophane, maybe cambodian (highly dependent on background - how far along the line was cambodian introduced). Any of which could be partial dragons.

Fin wise; both are 4 ray, round edged caudal. The male has big enough fins but the female has rather small dorsal. You will only have few 180* HM (rounded edge). Most should be SDeT. I have never taken notice on body form results, so I'd rather not comment on that. Dorsals should lean back. If lucky (if hidden in the background) you might get upright dorsals but the chances are very slim.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

That's very useful, both of you! I will not bid on them. Do either of you have spawns whose results you would like to share, as well as information on why the results were that way, whether expected or not?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

They are very very cute ^^ love their colors.. I'm one of those that would try them just to see what I would get and work on that - as mentioned above, they would need lots of work - but it may pay off in the end. The only factor you don't know about is the parents of these, etc. May have a hidden surprise.. The only reason I would attempt them is because I have people, such as a wholeseller who sells to stores and individuals that would take any offspring I couldn't sell off my hands for a great deal. That's why I do a lot of "lets see what I get" spawns  
But if these two were coming from overseas then I wouldn't spend the money on them.. only if they came from a breeder within the States, as the cost may not be efficient for how many generations it would take to clean them up. 

Unfortunately most of the time breeders don't know the background of the fish they are getting when they buy on AB, Ebay, etc.. an F2 from a line I am working on has thrown out a ton of doubletail genes.. the father, a dragon, coming from an IBC judge/breeder from Thailand, the female from a local breeder who told me she didn't have any DT genes - but the F2 from that original spawn thrown out 3 actual DTs and 95% with the wide DT dorsal and a few with the typical DT body. 
So even when you think you know the background of some fish you will usually get a surprise thrown in at some point. 

So unfortunately all you can get is an educated guess... we can say "You may get a few ___ or you may get some of this color", but you can end up spawning them and get something completely different. 

I think the spawn that surprised me the most was my white dragon with red fins x AOC/multi cambodian - all different cambodians with all different colors fins and a variety of colors of cellophane layering on the body and some grizzles thrown in, etc. Just a hodgepodge of colors.. and then the F2 ended up being most DT/DT genes.. this line is throwing out some fun surprises


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't have a good camera so I can't really share pictures.

One spawn I'd like to share is green (LfS - unknown genetics but all displayed were green) x turquoise with red wash (irid background - like for ever. I've been looking at his results for 2 years) = wild type colors both blue and green base (only a few), solid royal blue, royal blue with red wash, turquoise, solid copper (majority), platinum (solid and red wash), cellophane. . . . I lost most of them due to unstable water source, so I can't really say which outcome was actually dominant and to what percentage. All I know is copper made up about 50%. 

This defies all theory. So don't ask me to explain why. LOL

This is the best I could do.
View attachment 166274


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Indjo and Myates, that is all great information. Thank you! Indjo, that does seem like interesting results for that match! Myates, could you expand on why the DT gene isn't desirable? The pair I am trying to spawn right now is a green marble (butterfly) HM DS to a green marble DT DS (both shown below). Is this a bad idea? If so, they have not spawned yet, and I could always remove her and try him with a different female.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

DT gene is not undesired. But it is very rare to produce DT without DT/geno parents. Myates' result also defies theory. That's what's interesting about the spawn/fry.

I don't see why you shouldn't breed the above pair. You could improve his dorsal with DT genes - hoping the rays will branch like the caudal. Just don't breed DT to DT more than once. Always breed DT to a single tail to avoid possible deformities.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I have bought this female and have been looking for a nice male for her:









I found this guy on AB today, and my, he is pricey. But he does seem gorgeous. With this pair, would I mostly get their same colors, or can I expect something else? With HM to HMPK would get about 50% HM and about 25% HMPK, and 25% other? Is that right? What are y'all's opinions of these guys as a pair?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

His caudal could be wider and he appears to have a dip behind the dorsal. Breeding the two would likely produce a longer finned HMPK. Both have very rounded caudal tips. IMHO the colors are just kinda...blah. I would maybe look for a bold blue male or a solid black one. Mustard gas would work as well. They both have short rays at the beginning of the anal.
Hmmm. I think you could do better.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

This is a very interesting thread! I just bought one female and one male, I'm not sure about breeding the two but in the description the male was advertised as show quality, and the female, well I couldn't resist her. Extremely gorgeous. I'm still doing my research as I don't like to be unprepared for anything. (probably why my diaper bag weighs 30lbs, lol) Here are the two. I love them just as individuals but was wondering if I did in fact try to breed them in the future, what the outcome would be. I bought/ process of buying them from a seller on ebay who seems very reputable. 

View attachment 168050


View attachment 168058


P.s. I bought the male at sale price since he has had fin damage.

They are advertised as a Green Hornet Female HM, and a Blood Red HM male.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I have to agree with butterflies.. he also looks to be shedding some slime coating which could be a health issue that hasn't surfaced yet.

There are slight issues with the fins, nothing major and nothing that can't be worked out easily. I would avoid the male personally just because of the slime coating.. next would be the spinal curve there.. the breeder must of saw the fins and color and hoped it would be enough to sell him. 

I personally would go with this guy (great breeder)

This guy is also unique and would go with her (also a great breeder)

Be careful when buying a male for her, she has a bit of RT to her, so make sure the male's fins look nice and clean to avoid having too much. But she is a great girl and I hope you find a good boy for her!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Lamb, their parents will play a role in the outcome, but most likely you'll get a mix of blues with red wash, maybe some red with blue wash.. he's an awesome skyhawk. If you bred them I would breed back to the parent - whichever color you want the most, to get rid of the red wash/blue wash you may end up with.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you so much, Myates! I had been looking at that pineapple and thinking how gorgeous he was, but I didn't realize he would go with any girls I had! I have a lot to learn still about how the various colors interact.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Myates said:


> Lamb, their parents will play a role in the outcome, but most likely you'll get a mix of blues with red wash, maybe some red with blue wash.. he's an awesome skyhawk. If you bred them I would breed back to the parent - whichever color you want the most, to get rid of the red wash/blue wash you may end up with.


Fantastic! Thank you! I should keep tract of the generations I assume for the fry, being bred back, and so forth I assume? I think I'll give it a go if I'm confident in my abilities. Do you have any good links or names of books that would be helpful in learning more? Thank you so much!


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Deanna, think of bettas as a painting... you can mix all the colors you want. Sometimes they aren't as pretty, but usually you will always get something nice. It all depends on how much of a color purist you aim to be - 

Take Lamb for example - breeding a red and blue fish - both are dominant colors so you will get a mix of both, but the colors will be "washed" which is not well liked among the people who show or breed for specific. Doesn't mean they are ugly or people won't love them.. just some prefer the "pure" color, while others don't mind. It depends on your goal in the end - if there is a certain color you are aiming for. 
If you don't have a specific color goal then just have fun and see what you get 
If your aim is to show, find the colors/style you want and be very choosy about the ones you breed, etc. But if it's just to make pretty fish, I'd aim more for fins and form over color as that is the deciding factor moreso than color is when certain people purchase the fish.

Lamb- definitely keep track of the lineage and breeding.. keep track of how many fry survive, how many deformities there are, the outcome of colors, males to females, etc etc.. most good breeders will keep detailed logs of their breeding when they are going to work on lines. That way if something happens and you want to duplicate a previous spawn, you know what to do and how 

I'll PM you some links for places, otherwise there are some stickies at the top of the breeding section that may be useful


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

Deanna, did you ask the seller if he had any suitable males for her? I would. They only put a small percentage of their fish up on aquabid and he probably has a wide selection he'd be happy to show you if asked.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Good point  Make sure you get a picture of him though before you accept to get a sibling!


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I asked the seller of the DT girl I bought if he had any males that would be suitable. He is going to get back to me.

If I have an ultimate goal in breeding, it would be to achieve the looks Banlean has--fish that look like art, as you say. I am certain that takes a great amount of experience, though, and am unsure what smaller goals to focus on in the meantime.

I am going to try to produce some green show-worthy fish. But I am honestly more interested in producing interesting and unique patterns and color combinations.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I agree! I also just want to breed beautiful fish. I would like the pattern of the female, but a mixture of color and the fins and form of the male. I appreciate the painting reference, kind of puts things in perspective a bit.  Thanks for starting this thread Deanna01 and Myates for all of the help and information! I look forward to some links, and I am going to read the stickys now.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm the same.. there is only one line I am working on, everything else I just rather make pretty and interesting fish


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I did splurge on another... the seller gave me a great deal! I paid full price for this one, and he's adding a female he picked specifically for him for only $10, which is a steal if she's as great as he is, and at less than a fourth of the cost of him. After these I won't be purchasing anymore, but later might breed them, and later depending I might cross the lines.  What do you think of him, I think he looks great with what I've read about form, fins, etc.

View attachment 168202


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

He's a handsome boy  Not a whole lot of work needed on him if you do decide to breed him. 

Remember when buying imports that they are a bit more temperamental to water quality and temp than domesticated ones. Make sure to have IAL available as it will help a great deal in their health and wellness. If he is domestic than even better. It's mainly due to their is a big difference in waters that we have and waters they use over there. I've always had bad luck with imports and just with domestic now.. there is another reason, but may get some people a lil upset  So just make sure to keep up on their water changes and add in IAL and they should be fine.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

They're actually from Colorado! I'm too afraid to but anything that isn't at least within the United States. He's pretty isn't he? I haven't seen the female yet but he's proven to be a great breeder so far so I'll trust him.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Ah.. even better  I rather support local (US) breeders..


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

He's very pretty!


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

What you took this female 


And breed with this male


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

The fish you have on page 2 are known as chocolate bettas, and very hard to find, these are valuable strains for breeders because if you cross these to yellow or orange it will make them more intense, also this type of betta also works like the NR1 gene, if you cross those 2 you will get chocolates unless they have Cambodian in the background.
I am looking for these in HM right now.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I have a question about ee. Is it desirable to breed that trait? I think those ones are very pretty. Would love to have something like that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

That's interesting, Darth. I have two similar halfmoon girls, one of whom (I don't remember which) was advertised as chocolate:

If they will also go well with the pineapple Myates recommended, I will definitely bid on him.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

the second one here, is a dragon.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Ah. Yeah, I didn't know if dragons could be chocolates or not.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Lamb said:


> I have a question about ee. Is it desirable to breed that trait? I think those ones are very pretty. Would love to have something like that!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's desirable if you like them. I love my Ee bettas some people love them others don't. They are strong swimmers the large pectorals don't make them any slower then normal long finned bettas. I think the EE look best on plakats anyways.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I was wondering! I personally adore them, but I wasn't sure if it was a turn off or is it accepted in breeding for producing show quality fish.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Lamb said:


> I was wondering! I personally adore them, but I wasn't sure if it was a turn off or is it accepted in breeding for producing show quality fish.


I don't think they have EE or dumbos in shows yet. From what I read the EE gene can cause uneven fins or something like that. They don't have a standard set for how big or what they should look like. 

It is 2013 I bet some make it to show.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

They can be shown under variety I believe.. but their pectorals have to be even, etc. But there is no class for them specifically now.

It's a pretty recessive gene, best odds to get them when breeding is to breed two EEs together.. if only one parent is EE you would then breed an offspring back to the EE parent, and then an offspring from them to the EE parent, etc, to get a decent line going.


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

Very interesting. The breeder has a beautiful EE white female, but sadly I don't think I can house her unless I make a sorority, but then I would need another on top of her at least! I think EE are gorgeous, but can see why it would be difficult to breed them. BUT...

The breeder I'm buying from is sending a "gift" I'm assuming because I'm hesitant about breeding the green hornet female with the red male since I've been researching colors/patterns more. I'm afraid they'll end up making multicolors, which can be gorgeous, but from my understanding aren't too desirable. (I haven't found any reference to figuring out what exactly makes her "hornet" either.) I am thinking he's being very generous and giving me another female... But then I would need another male!   

(Please note I have a mild case of OCD. I have to have the same amount of everything-even when eating there needs to be the same amount of food on each side or if it's candy each side needs the same color(s) in addition, and things need to have patterns... or I have to create one in my head.)


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

so i dont get why people talk about inbreeding or breeding the babies with the mother or father ..? anyone know why also im conditioning right now but i want to breed a DB male (his color is blue) maybe a little marble mix, with a white female HMPK, i was wondering how the fry would turn out like since single tails are more dominant would they turn out HMPK ( My goal is trying to get HMPK DB fry if possible ) thx!


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

I totally agree they do look best on HMPK'S =D have one myself


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

litelboyblu said:


> so i dont get why people talk about inbreeding or breeding the babies with the mother or father ..? anyone know why also im conditioning right now but i want to breed a DB male (his color is blue) maybe a little marble mix, with a white female HMPK, i was wondering how the fry would turn out like since single tails are more dominant would they turn out HMPK ( My goal is trying to get HMPK DB fry if possible ) thx!


Inbreeding is how we got all these crazy colors and fins. Line breeding is all about inbreeding. I know it sounds weird and wrong but it is the norm in the fish world.


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

Inbreeding is normal in animal breeding period. Sometimes, it is the only way to preserve or amplify certain traits.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm going to try my "silver mustard dragon" with one of my girls. I have two potential ones. One is a very nice-form gold female that is his sibling. The other is a copper with gray edging to her fins who doesn't have quite as nice a form. Here is the male (he looks much more silver without flash).

This is the gold sib girl with pretty form:

And this is the dragon girl I had chosen for him myself. I think--though I don't know--that I might get a greater variety of metallics with her, which I would really like.

Opinions on what I'd get with each?


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Here's a picture of the male in natural light, in case that helps.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I jarred up the gold girl and took a look at her, and she is actually a dragon, too. I didn't realize it because she is so light, but she is. I think I will go with her, then, since she has better form. I'd love to hear what anyone thinks I'll get from the pair, though.


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## ncbettafish (Jul 14, 2013)

I am going try to breed my cellophane dumbo ear female to eithier my snow dragon male or my white dumbo male I also have a young yellow halfmoon female. my goal is to get yellow dumbo ear with the nice metallic irridesence. I am not sure of the age of the white dumbo but the male dragon is building a nest. Has anyone tried this type of cross?


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Deanna01 said:


> Here's a picture of the male in natural light, in case that helps.


I love when dragons are this color it's so cool.


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## Basement Bettas (May 12, 2012)

Genetics t hese days are so mixed it is hard to predict anything, Blue x blue should = steel, blue and green. But you get red, marbles, cambodian and everything else under the sun. You have to breed a few generations to drill down to something you can predict.

That male shown has interesting but is a very poorly formed fish. When you breed for a color sensation you will get crappy form. This breeder can breed enough in a year or so he my have it all perfected like his reds. Genetically he has a lot in there... so would expect a lot of multi colored fish. It is hard to duplicate these one of a kind fish.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm terribly sorry to hear that the male is very poorly formed. I know he has the split ventrals, of course, but I had thought he was pretty good otherwise. Had I realized his form was poor, I never would have bought him in the first place.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh, were you talking about the male I posted that started out this thread, Basement Bettas? I had thought you were referring to my dragon male on p. 5.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Deanna01 said:


> I'm terribly sorry to hear that the male is very poorly formed. I know he has the split ventrals, of course, but I had thought he was pretty good otherwise. Had I realized his form was poor, I never would have bought him in the first place.


Just because he is not perfect dose not mean he can't give you one or two good fry. Then you can use the good offspring of his to breed next time.


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## ncbettafish (Jul 14, 2013)

ncbettafish said:


> I am going try to breed my cellophane dumbo ear female to eithier my snow dragon male or my white dumbo male I also have a young yellow halfmoon female. my goal is to get yellow dumbo ear with the nice metallic irridesence. I am not sure of the age of the white dumbo but the male dragon is building a nest. Has anyone tried this type of cross?


I have not quite discovered how to post pictures yet but I have uploaded an album of the female and the two males.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

What would be the likely outcomes of a super black x orange dalmation spawn? Not saying I would do it... I'm just curious.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I bought this OHM boy today to go with my DT girl. He's actually a sibling of hers. I am hoping they should make for a really fun spawn, should I ever get the hang of this! I should get DT and DTHM fancy dragons in a variety of colors?


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## Lamb (Jul 9, 2013)

I'd love to have a girl like her.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

She is a super cutie, yeah.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Anyone have an answer to my question?


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Matt, I'm utterly new to breeding, but I do know that Bettysplendens.com says about orange dalmatians: 


> However, the Dalmatian spotting acts as a dominant gene, overpowering all else and affecting nearly every member of a spawn with darker orange or red splotches of color in the fins. This only seems to affect the Non Red fish -- yellow, orange and blue/yellow or blue/orange bicolors -- and not irids or reds. I assume (but it hasn't yet been tested) that breeding an Orange Dalmatian with an iridescent fish will produce offspring with spots affecting their yellow areas in the F2.


Is that helpful at all?


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## Riverotter (May 15, 2013)

Oh he's gorgeous!! I can't wait to see what you produce with those two.


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## BlueInkFish (Jan 13, 2013)

Deanna01 said:


> I bought this OHM boy today to go with my DT girl. He's actually a sibling of hers. I am hoping they should make for a really fun spawn, should I ever get the hang of this! I should get DT and DTHM fancy dragons in a variety of colors?


wow there soooo pretty and super cute!! who's the seller on AB ?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

So you did get him? lol did you get him from the link I showed you? He is a pretty boy.. looks like he may have some marble to him as well. You're going to get some unique babies!


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## Fenghuang (Dec 28, 2012)

I have a "fancy" marble dragon HMDT. Heavy finnage and still growing. 

Seller pictures









After marbling 









I don't have a female for him yet, but I was thinking of just going with a simple cello HM like this girl from BasementBettas. I keep going back to this one's auction page, but I am not breeding for a while yet. 

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1376454004










Thoughts?


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Indjo has warned me that I might get excessive branching in the offspring of the first pair on this page. Should that be controllable? I simply don't breed RT or FT? They are siblings.


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## Darth (Nov 19, 2012)

Breeding RT isn't all bad you will also get some very nice HM out of this combo.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

That's good to hear, Darth! Maybe I won't shy away from it, then....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Deanna01 said:


> Indjo has warned me that I might get excessive branching in the offspring of the first pair on this page. Should that be controllable? I simply don't breed RT or FT? They are siblings.


The male has excessive branching as it is. Since I believe females pass on more of her fins, pairing him to a DT would produce fry with more ray branching - possibly roses. I'm not saying you shouldn't breed them. I'm just telling you to be careful when breeding the F1 and if possible, don't inbreed since it is unadvised to inbreed both roses nor DT. But breeding to unrelated genes should be fine, specially to less rays (4 rays).

Fenghuang's male is a DT but the female is a 2 ray. This pairing should be totally safe and can even be inbred. In fact, since offspring should follow more of the female's fins, fry should be 2 - 4 rays.



> What would be the likely outcomes of a super black x orange dalmation spawn? Not saying I would do it... I'm just curious.


Mattsbetta; A few breeders say that you will get a majority of super blacks (black male x yellow/orange female). At the same time you should eventually get more vibrant yellow/orange - maybe in F3. I'm not really sure how reliable this is as I haven't tried it myself. Further I'm not sure how the dalmation will affect the black. . . (will there be black dalmations?). . . . dalmation to my knowledge is partially dominant; you will have dalmation for a few generations. But this applies to yellow/orange/red crossings.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Huh... That sounds interesting. That might be a neat experiment if I don't find a good male for my female.


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## Vier (Feb 1, 2012)

What would you get (assuming linebred) with a opaque/platinum white x super black betta? What about white x orchid (no red only black and blue irid)- would it turn out different?


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

I am having further trouble with Profish--they are telling me again they cannot send the solid green I had bought--and so am going to have to go a different direction for my nice solid green dragon female. I am intrigued by this boy. What do you think he would do with a gold dragon female or a solid green dragon female?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Gold dragon. Bring out more of that bi-color and give more dragon scaling. I think the bi-color and partial butterfly banding is worth pursuing. A dragon scale mustard gas would be really cool.


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Yeah, it does seem like he'd be interesting, doesn't it? Maybe I will bid on him....


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## drake (Aug 19, 2013)

hi guys.need some help here.
my betta already spawning.i watching them for few hours,after that i left them for about 8 hours.
during spawning female do drop the egss,but the male pick it up,but didt blow it up inside the bubble.
so,maybe not fertilized.but after that i left them.
now the female already at the corner of the breeding tank.spawning process probably finish.
but the male seems freely swimming now where.i check the nest,cant see any eggs.why the male eat all the eggs?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

If the male is swimming around away from the nest then most likely there are no eggs in there. Once breeding is done the female will do as she is doing for you, and the male will stay under the nest and guard it as well as rearrange the eggs up into the nest more. But if he is away from the nest for more than a few seconds most likely they ate them all. 

They may not of wrapped correctly, which is common, especially for virgins and he ate the eggs, or he may be an egg eater. Recondition them and try once more - it should be a bit easier the next go around for them as they should know more of what to do. Females will have eggs ready usually three days after spawning - so would condition for 3-5 days (5 days to be sure) and try again with them.

We can only speculate why they eat their eggs.. yours may not of been fertilized or he may just of liked to eat them. I had a male that spawned for about 5 hours with the female only to eat the eggs the next day out of the blue. Things happen unfortunately.. hopefully next time yours won't eat the eggs! Need to tell him she isn't a gumball machine


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## drake (Aug 19, 2013)

Myates said:


> If the male is swimming around away from the nest then most likely there are no eggs in there. Once breeding is done the female will do as she is doing for you, and the male will stay under the nest and guard it as well as rearrange the eggs up into the nest more. But if he is away from the nest for more than a few seconds most likely they ate them all.
> 
> They may not of wrapped correctly, which is common, especially for virgins and he ate the eggs, or he may be an egg eater. Recondition them and try once more - it should be a bit easier the next go around for them as they should know more of what to do. Females will have eggs ready usually three days after spawning - so would condition for 3-5 days (5 days to be sure) and try again with them.
> 
> We can only speculate why they eat their eggs.. yours may not of been fertilized or he may just of liked to eat them. I had a male that spawned for about 5 hours with the female only to eat the eggs the next day out of the blue. Things happen unfortunately.. hopefully next time yours won't eat the eggs! Need to tell him she isn't a gumball machine


hi.
thanks for the answer and good tips.yes,there is no egg at all.i already separate them.i will try again.both betta virgin,no experienced 
thank you again.will update soon


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## Asira (Jun 23, 2013)

What if I bred these:

Alice, a HM bred by Frantisek Baier (Czech). I'm not sure what her color would be called. (High quality line carrier)

















Daryl, a blue butterfly HM bred by Salvatore Unali (Germany). He's the brother of the winner of the Holland Betta Show, and carries a very high quality line.


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## drake (Aug 19, 2013)

Myates said:


> If the male is swimming around away from the nest then most likely there are no eggs in there. Once breeding is done the female will do as she is doing for you, and the male will stay under the nest and guard it as well as rearrange the eggs up into the nest more. But if he is away from the nest for more than a few seconds most likely they ate them all.
> 
> They may not of wrapped correctly, which is common, especially for virgins and he ate the eggs, or he may be an egg eater. Recondition them and try once more - it should be a bit easier the next go around for them as they should know more of what to do. Females will have eggs ready usually three days after spawning - so would condition for 3-5 days (5 days to be sure) and try again with them.
> 
> We can only speculate why they eat their eggs.. yours may not of been fertilized or he may just of liked to eat them. I had a male that spawned for about 5 hours with the female only to eat the eggs the next day out of the blue. Things happen unfortunately.. hopefully next time yours won't eat the eggs! Need to tell him she isn't a gumball machine


i try to breed them today.success! the female even help the male pick up the egg,blow it to the nest.im surprise the female got many eggs.i follow your advice,after 5 days.seems their got very well experienced 
this time i put indian almond leave and banana leave,the nest was huge.


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

@Asira
You should get pastel butterflies. Watch out for that redwash the female has(she is called platinum but she has red wash). It would be a shame to put that into a blue butterfly line like the male. If you want a platinum girl find one with either no color wash or yellow wash(cheaper).


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## Deanna01 (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi, all. I am about to cross two pineapple HMs. What colors might I expect out of the cross?


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

Congrats Drake!! I wish you luck! Now the hard part begins  But you can do it!

Asira, red and blues are dominant so you'll get some blues with red wash, variations of white marbled fins.. *maybe* pastels, but those aren't too easy to come by. Careful breeding the male as he is a rosetail, which is a deformity that can lead to a lot of scale/fin/body deformities in the fry.. breed him the once then I would retire him.. most breeders won't breed them, but I won't tell you not to - just be aware you may end up having to cull a fair amount of the babies.

Is your female an HMPK? She short of looks like it.. has the classic shape, but could be wrong.

Deanna - it will depend on their genetics and what was used to get the yellow. You will get some similar to the parents, some with a more muted yellow.. and depending on how the yellow was created you can end up with some forms of red, cambodians, chocolate.. possibly even an orange or two. You won't really know what is in the genetics until F2, F1 will be a tossup and most likely more looking like t he parents and some a bit more muted in color.


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