# Small lump on head and missing scales on body



## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, I noticed Yogi has a couple missing scales on his side about a week ago. I ordered some Kordon Fish Protector to see if it may help with the healing but have not received yet. I did 2 tank cleanings over this past week as well. I’m worried now because he has a small raised round spot or possibly missing scale on his head. I can’t tell I just know it’s slightly raised so I’m hoping it’s nothing serious. He may have scraped it - I’m not sure. I want to see what you think and if it looks serious or if it needs medication beyond the supplements. I also always cut a large Indian almond leaf into smaller leaves and he has them in his tank. Maybe 1 and 1/2 large leaf’s worth. I’ve been doing this for over 6 months now. Is this too many IAL’s. Could they being more harm than good and cause issues with his scales? I’ve heard they can thin them so I’m just double checking. Thanks in advance. Here are some pics of his scales and the last pic is the raised area on his head.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Sorry Yogi may be ailing. Please fill this out for us.








*****PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Fill out this form so...


Many thanks to BF/TFK Member Mike for developing this questionnaire. It is the same form with a few additions. Please copy and paste into a new message and complete this form when seeking help for your Betta. This information and a clear photo posted directly into the thread will help us give...




www.bettafish.com


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Housing: a tank
How many gallons is your tank?5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 80.8
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? NorthFin betta bits, Fluval bug bites and Hikari Bio gold pellets, Hikari Daphnea for a treat once a week. 
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? Yes
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 3 times a day, pellets for breakfast (bio gold) and dinner (Betta bits) and a snack mid-day Bug bites s or daphnia (once a week)

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Once a week
What percentage of water did you change? 35%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?vaccuum
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? API Stress Coat, API Quick Start

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.8
Hardness (GH):75
Alkalinity (KH): 40

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? I noticed his scales about a week ago and his head today. 
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? A few of his scales seem to have shed or are shedding on his side. Also, on his head he has a small lump or maybe missing scales?
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? None. He’s been playful, has a big bubble nest, comes right over to me like usual. He’s eating. Sleeping and napping normal
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? About 9 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Sorry Yogi may be ailing. Please fill this out for us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I just sent it over.


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## fatblonde (Apr 20, 2020)

Would it be possible to get a picture of his entire tank? It looks like it _could_ be decor damage??


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

That’s what I was thinking too. I usually cover the opening on his volcano with a moss ball at night because I shut it off until morning and don’t want him to get stuck in there. I know it sounds silly but I actually caught him fin nipping one day and he does it when his tail is “in the way”. I left it uncovered by accident a few nights ago and caught him coming out of the volcano. He looked so cute and like he was having fun exploring but I wonder if that’s what is doing it. I’ve been leaving the moss ball off the last few nights thinking he’ll be fine.

Besides covering the volcano any recommendations? I actually have a planted tank (my first) with anubias in it. I’m moving them over to Yogi’s next tank cleaning day. I just need to do a little more research to make sure I do things the right way. I won’t be able to remove the large silk plant until I buy a taller plant for him. Heres a pic... Yogi is working hard on his bubble nest.. 

Thank you so much for reading this. I am so appreciative of any help or advice I can get.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

I just want to mention his scales on his side have been like that for longer than the volcano situation. I’d say theyve been missing more like 2 weeks - if it makes a difference. Thx again.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

One more thing, does it look like he injured his eyelid as well? Or is that a scale growing over his eye. I just noticed now looking at him zoomed in.


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## fatblonde (Apr 20, 2020)

They seem to be the most inquisitive creatures, right?! The fun part is betta seem to be so interactive with their owners. If someone would have told me that before getting a betta I would not have believed them. I'm very new to all of this myself so please take my observations accordingly. 

Does the air stone come out of the volcano? Have you seen him try to get into the volcano with the bubbles on?

To me the marks on his head look like decor damage. I would guess maybe the ones on the sides as well, but maybe some sort of body fluke (although I'm leaning towards it not being that). I _think_ the concern is when they do get nicks and scratches a possible secondary infection can develop. 

How long has he been in the tank above in the pictures? I see some slight algae growth so I'm a bit confused by your water parameters. 

So if the tank he is in above is not cycled _and_ he has some cuts and scrapes it will just add to him being stressed. And the best thing we can do when they're stressed is make sure the water is absolutely pristine. Assuming it's not cycled (your nitrates are reading 0) then more frequent water changes will be needed. I would suggest twice a week about 1-2 gallons each time; this is assuming his ammonia is reading 0, and his nitrites are also reading 0. If either of those are above 0 then small daily water changes would be best. The API master test kit will give you hundreds of tests and is more accurate than strips are. 

Assuming you're tank IS cycled then I would do the twice a week water changes of 1-1.5 gallons (still twice a week because of the wounds). I would use *Plain* Rooibos tea and boil it till it turns a dark tea color and add it to his tank. I make a cup like I'm making it for myself. I would also add Catappa Leaves (Indian Almond Leaves/ IAL) and they will also turn his tank water a dark color. Both have antibacterial and anti fungal properties. It's kind of like using neosporin on human wounds. 

If it's not from decor damage and some sort of parasite or fluke then hopefully someone more knowledgeable can point you in the right direction. 

I purchased anubias for my tanks as well, but since they can't be planted in the substrate I found some suction cups that have the loops on them and just put the anubias through the loop, and that allows me to adjust the height so the leaves sit a bit closer to the top and my betta can nestle themselves in there and on the leaves. I'll try to attach a picture. 

I'm sure others will have better suggestions for you, or will be able to narrow it down some more! He is certainly a handsome fella!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Yogi's head is scraped. Sometime scales go wonky for no real reason.

For now, I would watch him; maybe take a photo every other day or so to see if anything has changed. As long as he is eating and active I wouldn't worry. I also don't see scales starting to cover either eye. If you can get a clear photo of which eye you mean that would be good.

As suggested by fatblonde, I would also make a "tea" out of the IAL and add it to his tank in addition to floating the leaves. You can store the leftovers in the refrigerator. I like to make the tank the color of bourbon or darker. IAL and Rooibos both have antibacterial and antifungal properties.

IMO, your water changing schedule is sufficient; especially as you are using IAL.

Check all the decor, inside and out, with fine mesh cloth or hose to see if anything snags. It something does that could be the cause of the scraping.

Do your reading ever show Nitrates? It's actually not unusual for a tank to not show Nitrates; even one that is not planted. Did you take the readings right before a water change? How long do you leave your lights on? And, finally , does Yogi go in the volcano when it is erupting bubbles? If not, I would leave it on or turn it up.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, great idea about the tea. I’m going to look up how to make and dose it. He loves the IAL because he hangs out under the floating ones and the ones I’ve made little cave-like covering for him. He seems to really love them. Also, about halfway through the week between tank cleanings his water does get darker but because I’m doing more frequent changes it dilutes. 

There isalgae that develops and the brown on the right black side of the tank are tannins I think and I always use an algae scraper on the walls of the tank to remove any residue on them. I have my window across the room from him open a lot during the day. It is not in direct sunlight because my yard has a lot of trees but of course there is sunlight that comes through. I try to keep my blind shut in the late afternoon when the sun is at its strongest. I might move his tank. I don’t want to stress him with a move but I will if you think that’s what I should do.

I keep his lights on from 7am- 5pm and I turn the bubbler off at 5 too. I turn on the blue light from 5-7. This is when he has been exploring the volcano. The bubbler is in the volcano and he doesn’t go in it while the bubbler is on although he does swim over the bubbler here and there and seems to enjoy it. He’s very playful and loves to entertain me.

I take readings daily with the strips and to keep an accurate reading on his levels. I do the master test kit about every two weeks but I can do it more no problem.

He never has nitrates in his water. I have the bio-wheels/balls in his filter and his tank was cycled before I bought him and he has always lived in there. I did a ton of research before buying him to make sure I did everything right. I do use Quick Start when I add new water. Is this ok?

I think his eye is fine. I can’t see what I saw yesterday so maybe it was the angle or a reflection. I will keep an eye on it though. Oh, and I will take more frequent pics of his scales and do the pantyhose test on his decorations. The silk plants in his tank are fairly new. I am going to move those pretty anubias over soon. It’s time!

thank you to both of you for your great ideas!! You’re so kind and thank you for saying he’s handsome!! I can’t get over his personality and beauty. He makes me smile all of the time!

I don’t know what I would do without this forum! 😊


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

fatblonde said:


> They seem to be the most inquisitive creatures, right?! The fun part is betta seem to be so interactive with their owners. If someone would have told me that before getting a betta I would not have believed them. I'm very new to all of this myself so please take my observations accordingly.
> 
> Does the air stone come out of the volcano? Have you seen him try to get into the volcano with the bubbles on?
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your help! Like I mentioned in my message earlier today, your help, ideas and advice are so valuable to me. I am in love with your idea using the suction cups with the anubias! I have a ton of different suction cups so this is awesome!! Right now I have them tied down to lava stones and a large mobani (I think that’s the name) log. I don’t want to move them into his tank though, the log and rocks, because he won’t be safe from injury. So, this is perfect. Thank you again! I’m going to do another test on my tank tomorrow before cleaning with the master test kit to get a more accurate reading on his levels. Good news is he is the happiest fish today! They really are amazing little creatures with so much personality. 
Quick question: I’ve seen people use clear PVC pipes on the floor of tanks for fish to swim through. Do you think this is safe? He needs a tunnel or cave to explore and it’s hard buying decor that doesn’t have sharp edges. The betta floating log is great but the swim through log they make for the floor of the tank has too many tough edges.
Thanks again!!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

fatblonde said:


> They seem to be the most inquisitive creatures, right?! The fun part is betta seem to be so interactive with their owners. If someone would have told me that before getting a betta I would not have believed them. I'm very new to all of this myself so please take my observations accordingly.
> 
> Does the air stone come out of the volcano? Have you seen him try to get into the volcano with the bubbles on?
> 
> ...


Hi! I have another quick question. Did you glue the anubias on the suction cup loop or tie it with thread or wire? I don’t think they will stay in the loop without something to anchor them. I saw a couple of YouTube videos where silicone glue was used. If you suggest glue is there a brand you prefer? I will need to pick some up tomorrow and wanted to see what your thoughts are. Thanks again!


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## AndreaPond (May 2, 2020)

You can use thread or aquarium safe glue. I don't recall the name of the glue I have, but I bought it at a specialty fish store (Big Al's in Toronto), so I'm pretty confident it's safe. Your inquisitiveness and desire to do best is admirable. It's a great hobby that I thoroughly enjoy and I'm glad you do too!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

AndreaPond said:


> You can use thread or aquarium safe glue. I don't recall the name of the glue I have, but I bought it at a specialty fish store (Big Al's in Toronto), so I'm pretty confident it's safe. Your inquisitiveness and desire to do best is admirable. It's a great hobby that I thoroughly enjoy and I'm glad you do too!


That’s so sweet! Thank you so much! I saw Big Al’s online during my searches. I will check them out to see what brand they carry, etc. Thank you very much! Have an awesome day!!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi again, to make a tea out of IAL’s do you boil with conditioned water or do I make/boil with tap water and add to previously conditioned water I am adding during my tank cleaning. Thanks!

I can start a new discussion if this is no longer applicable to this section. Thx!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

I looked up the tea recipe so I am all set with my question above. I made a nice dark batch to add to his water and store. Thanks again to Linda, Fatblonde and Andrea. Have a nice afternoon. Lauren and Yogi 😊 🐠


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

fatblonde said:


> They seem to be the most inquisitive creatures, right?! The fun part is betta seem to be so interactive with their owners. If someone would have told me that before getting a betta I would not have believed them. I'm very new to all of this myself so please take my observations accordingly.
> 
> Does the air stone come out of the volcano? Have you seen him try to get into the volcano with the bubbles on?
> 
> ...


Hi, hope all is well! I just wanted to ask a quick question about attaching my anubias to suction cups. I think I will have better luck gluing the plants to the cups. I’m having some trouble anchoring them to it with thread. I bought some Aqueon silicone sealant - is this what I would use to glue them? Or should I be using another glue or do you have a recommendation? Thanks so much!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, the lump on Yogi’s head has gotten bigger. I did a tank cleaning again today and added more IAL tea and his water is a nice brown color. I also have the Kordon’s Fish Protector in his water. I’m beginning to think it may be something more than a cut. Because it’s bigger and sticking out so much I’m worried. Also, he has something over his eye on the other side. It looks almost like skin. I think he injured his eyelid because that eye looks tired. Here are some updates pics.... the pic of the “skin” above his eye is one I took yesterday. It’s really hard to photograph. The ones of the lump were taken moments ago. 

I’ve been watching him closely since I started this thread last week. He seems healthy and playful. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Looks to be a cyst or a tumor. With either it is watch and wait. I would keep IAL or Rooibos in his tank. That way, should it rupture you will be a step ahead.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok. Thanks for the quick reply. Do you think I need meds or should I have any particular medication on hand in case of a rupture? Thanks


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The IAL or Rooibos should do the trick. But I'm not familiar with OTC meds as I don't use them.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok thank you. I hope it does the trick. Thanks so much. I really appreciate your help.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, I need some help. It has been about a month since I last updated this post and frustratingly Yogi’s scales on his side look like more of a growth than that they are missing. Today I notice it has some blood coming from it. He has had brown water from IAL tea I have been making and adding to his tank. I’ve kept his tank rich with tannins from both the tea and about 4-5 leaves throughout his tank. Nothing in his tank should be scratching him. I’ve gone over everything in it and as seen in the pic of his tank there’s nothing in their that should be affecting him badly. His parameters have been excellent. He has been in a great mood. The cyst on his head is still there but his eye has healed but his side looks horrible. I’m really worried. Nothing has changed on the form but if you want me to include another on this update that’s fine. Should I put him on an antibiotic. He has Kordon’s Fish Protector in his water too. 
Thank you in advance.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

One more thing, his tank could not be any more immaculately clean than it is. I’ve been cleaning it two times a week changing about 40-50% of the water. I am beginning to feel a little defeated. I also have not added the anubias from my planted tank. I’m too nervous I might bring disease or bacteria into his tank so I chickened out. I also ordered a ceramic tunnel from Etsy that should be arriving soon. I’m considering removing the volcano.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Housing: a tank
How many gallons is your tank?5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 80.8
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? NorthFin betta bits, Fluval bug bites flakes and pellets and Hikari Bio gold pellets, Hikari Daphnea for a treat once a week.
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Both
Freeze-dried? Yes
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 3 times a day, pellets for breakfast (bio gold) and dinner (Betta bits) and a snack mid-day Bug bites s or daphnia (once a week)

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Once a week
What percentage of water did you change? 40-50%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?vaccuum
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? API Stress Coat, API Quick Start, Kordon’s Fish Protector, IAL tea

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water _before_ the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.2
Hardness (GH):75
Alkalinity (KH): 40

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? I noticed his scales about a month ago
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? A few of his scales seem to have shed or are shedding on his side. Now they have developed more into a tumor. I also notice some blood on it too. Also, on his head he has a growing tumor or cyst
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? None. He’s been playful, has a big bubble nest, comes right over to me like usual. He’s eating. Sleeping and napping normal
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Just with a deep brown/amber IAL tea and Kordon’s fish protector over the past month.
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? About 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

I went ahead and filled out the form after my new questions and concerns.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi @Veloran i know you are the pro on medicating betta fish. Maybe you could let me know what you think about my most recent posts and pics. I am updating this discussion from about a month ago and I’m very worried now that I see blood in and on the ulcer, cyst, tumor or abscess on his side. I’d like to medicate Yogi as quickly as possible. I will get any med he needs but I do have general cure and furan2 on hand. Thanks in advance. You’ll have to scroll up a bit to see my updated photos.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I'm not experienced with this but am sending every good thought I have!!


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, in looking at this, it may be that he's suffering from lymphocystis which is viral in nature. Typically you see more of these lesions over their body (instead of just the one) but if he's active and eating, I would hold off on medicating unless I'm wrong and he starts to take a turn we can treat for a bacterial infection with Kanaplex. Many fish, if they recover from Lymphocystis, usually happens after the 1 month mark.
You can use aquarium salt for up to 10 days at 1 tsp per gallon to help keep the wound sterilized. If the wound does get infected and you see the start of fungal growth, you can start him on the Furan 2 that you have or preferably Kanaplex.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, in looking at this, it may be that he's suffering from lymphocystis which is viral in nature. Typically you see more of these lesions over their body (instead of just the one) but if he's active and eating, I would hold off on medicating unless I'm wrong and he starts to take a turn we can treat for a bacterial infection with Kanaplex. Many fish, if they recover from Lymphocystis, usually happens after the 1 month mark.
> You can use aquarium salt for up to 10 days at 1 tsp per gallon to help keep the wound sterilized. If the wound does get infected and you see the start of fungal growth, you can start him on the Furan 2 that you have or preferably Kanaplex.


Ok, I will do the salt and see what direction things go. I will buy Kanaplex to have on hand and do some research on the virus. I read a weakened immune system and stress are the cause of this. With the Kordon’s Fish Protector and IAL do you recommend anything else that may give his immune system a boost such as any vitamins or specific food? Thank you for your help. I feel really bad he’s sick.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

I would stick with the NorthFin betta bits for now as a staple.
I sometimes recommend VitaChem as a vitamin supplement for fish that have been mineral deprived situations but I don't think it's absolutely necessary right now.. Fish, like everything else get sick, but luckily, healthy fish have great immune systems.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, that sounds good. I grabbed the kanaplex to have on hand just in case and some Hikari frozen blood worms. I gave them to him the worms moment ago. Hopefully that’s ok to do - I figured a little change from the pellets and freeze-dried food might help. Thank you for all of your help. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your encouraging words too. I will do my very best to keep him healthy and happy. Have a good day and thank you again. 😊


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## fatblonde (Apr 20, 2020)

YogisMom said:


> Hi, the lump on Yogi’s head has gotten bigger. I did a tank cleaning again today and added more IAL tea and his water is a nice brown color. I also have the Kordon’s Fish Protector in his water. I’m beginning to think it may be something more than a cut. Because it’s bigger and sticking out so much I’m worried. Also, he has something over his eye on the other side. It looks almost like skin. I think he injured his eyelid because that eye looks tired. Here are some updates pics.... the pic of the “skin” above his eye is one I took yesterday. It’s really hard to photograph. The ones of the lump were taken moments ago.
> 
> I’ve been watching him closely since I started this thread last week. He seems healthy and playful. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks



Hello! I just now saw this, and your questions about the suction cups / anubias. I'm sorry!! How is he doing now? 

For the anubias, if they're small I just slide the whole rhyzome into the loop. As they grow or if it becomes too tight I just nip the loop in half with scissors and it seems to keep the anubias on the suction cup and also still gives betta somewhere to rest along the length of the plant. I hope he is doing better now. Again, my apologies for not catching this sooner. I'm still trying to navigate the site correctly. 
Best Wishes!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

fatblonde said:


> Hello! I just now saw this, and your questions about the suction cups / anubias. I'm sorry!! How is he doing now?
> 
> For the anubias, if they're small I just slide the whole rhyzome into the loop. As they grow or if it becomes too tight I just nip the loop in half with scissors and it seems to keep the anubias on the suction cup and also still gives betta somewhere to rest along the length of the plant. I hope he is doing better now. Again, my apologies for not catching this sooner. I'm still trying to navigate the site correctly.
> Best Wishes!


Hi!!! Thanks so much for getting back to me and please no worries. Yogis acting really happy and appears healthy except for the tumors or lymphocystits he has developed on his body. My focus is to keep him as healthy and happy as I possibly can.
This makes total sense now with the suction cups. I was so worried about suffocating the roots in the suction cups with the slats I ordered. They were so tight over the rhizome. I will try cutting them to see how that goes.
I am still a little hesitant to move them from the planted tank to his in case one of the growths on him came off and he developed an infection. I don’t want to introduce anything new in his tank that might have something like parasites to aggravate them or cause them to get infected. I’m just a little paranoid. But soon enough. I love the anubias!! They are so pretty!
I hope you and your betta (s) are doing great and please don’t worry at all about replying quickly! I totally appreciate you getting back to me! Have a great day and I’m sure we’ll chat again!!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> I would stick with the NorthFin betta bits for now as a staple.
> I sometimes recommend VitaChem as a vitamin supplement for fish that have been mineral deprived situations but I don't think it's absolutely necessary right now.. Fish, like everything else get sick, but luckily, healthy fish have great immune systems.


Hi @Veloran, does this look like possible infection? I’m not sure if I should start the Kanaplex.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

YogisMom said:


> Hi @Veloran, does this look like possible infection? I’m not sure if I should start the Kanaplex.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Don't see an infection yet, is he acting any differently?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Oh good. No, he seems fine. He’s been pretty lazy but he seems happy and looks forward to eating.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Don't see an infection yet, is he acting any differently?


Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. 🙏


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

@Veloran Hi, I’m not sure if I should start a new discussion but Yogi has a small cut or scrape on his side. It is on the opposite side from his cyst/tumor. I did some rearranging in his tank a couple of days ago so I have to troubleshoot and figure out what he scraped it on. Unless he’s lost a scale? Do you think I should just keep an eye on this and watch for infection? It is not bleeding and it looks to me like it is the red color under his blue scales? He’s already in a tank rich with tannins (strong IAL tea and I’m continuing to add the Kordon’s fish protector to his water on tank cleaning days. I feel like it’s one thing after another. Here is a pic.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, yes, it looks like he lost a scale, he might have tried to wedge himself somewhere he shouldn't. Keep an eye on it for now, you can add aquarium salt for a few days just incase there's abrasion on the flesh below. The salt will help sterilize the wound.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay that sounds good. Thank you for the quick reply and advice. I will go ahead and add some AQ salt for a few days. Have a great day @Veloran!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, yes, it looks like he lost a scale, he might have tried to wedge himself somewhere he shouldn't. Keep an eye on it for now, you can add aquarium salt for a few days just incase there's abrasion on the flesh below. The salt will help sterilize the wound.


Hi @Veloran, I need your advice. Does this look infected? I did the salt for a few days. He’s happy but both of the lumps look like they could burst anytime now. I’m just making sure I don’t need to start the Kanaplex. He’s due for another tank cleaning tomorrow. He’s been tail biting though. i have noticed is him sleeping over near the intake to the tank which I think could also be ripping them. I feel bad. I don’t want him to be stressed. Thanks


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I'll let Veloran answer about when to start the Kanaplex. However, if you use IAL or Rooibos that would work as a precaution as both are antibacterial and antifungal.

The tank should be one of the colors below but no lighter. A "tea" will it it that way more quickly.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I'll let Veloran answer about when to start the Kanaplex. However, if you use IAL or Rooibos that would work as a precaution as both are antibacterial and antifungal.
> 
> The tank should be one of the colors below but no lighter. A "tea" will it it that way more quickly.
> 
> ...


Hi, Thank you for letting him know. I had his tank real dark like the one on the bottom for a couple months but I didn’t know if it was too dark so last cleaning when I added the salt water I didn’t go as heavy on the tea. Right now it looks like the first one. I made a nice dark batch tonight so I will darken his tank up again when I clean his tank tomorrow. I got concerned that it was too dark so I’m glad I know it’s ok.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, don't start him on Kanaplex. 
Given that he is still active and eating, I don't yet believe that the cysts are caused by a bacterial infection. It may look bad but let him take care of issue himself for now.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, don't start him on Kanaplex.
> Given that he is still active and eating, I don't yet believe that the cysts are caused by a bacterial infection. It may look bad but let him take care of issue himself for now.


Okay great. Thank you so much. It’s much redder today. I will include a pic from this am.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Keep and eye on it and his behavior. If he starts to decline (lack of appetite, lethargy, etc) we can try meds as a last ditch, but from his symptoms, I am not convinced it's bacterial.
Hopefully he can recover but be cognizant that he may have to live with tumors all his life.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, thank you so much. I will keep an eye on him and those symptoms. I bought him this past January and I think he is an older betta. My goal is to give him the best life possible regardless of his awful looking tumors 😕. If it does burst (it looks like it could any time now) should I do the meds or let it heal on it’s own? I just cleaned his tank and added lots of IAL tea.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

If he's still on the salt treatment (don't go past 10 days), no need to do anything. The IAL helps a lot as well. Once it bursts, if it starts to grow fungus (white cotton) we can treat it. 
Best not to bombard him with meds. Medication is hard on fish.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

He’s pretty much all done with the salt. I kept the salt in for the last 4 days or so. I think it stresses him out because thats when I noticed he was nipping at his tail. Maybe not though? Today I did a good sized water change and did not add more so I don’t know how much is remaining in his water, if any. I hope I won’t need the meds and will look out for the fungus.
Thank you so so much. I really appreciate your quick replies and help. I don’t know what I would do without this forum.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Keep and eye on it and his behavior. If he starts to decline (lack of appetite, lethargy, etc) we can try meds as a last ditch, but from his symptoms, I am not convinced it's bacterial.
> Hopefully he can recover but be cognizant that he may have to live with tumors all his life.


Hi @Veloran, so I think Yogi might have either severe organ disease or an infection. I’ve noticed over the past week or so that the hump he had on his upper back/head area has grown quite a bit and his scales are thickened, bluer and starting to sticking out. I know the scales sticking out is an indicator for dropsy. Yesterday I cleaned his tank but held off darkening his water a deep brown with the IAL tea too much because I just could not see him and wanted to get a good look at what exactly is going on - with pics. His water is golden color now and I have about 5 leaves in his tank and I will introduce more tea soon.
As far as the tumors go, the one on his side will get to the point where it’s hanging on, falls off and either leaves a little redness or just the white area again. The one on his head fills with something like a zit, it must pop and decrease in size but within a day or two fills back up again. He is eating but spends more time sleeping and is not as energetic. He still comes when I call him and loves seeing me and he plays with the bubbler. He doesn’t act like a sick fish but obviously looks very old with health issues. I’m not sure if I should treat him for anything or just keep him comfy and watch for further signs. Thanks in advance.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, unfortunately, I still think it is viral in nature.
This seems to be one of the more severe cases with what has been happening. In some instances the cysts grow and burst, happens a couple of times and they recover in a month or so. In other instances, it keeps recurring.
I still don't recommend meds unless he starts acting differently. I am a little concerned that it's popping up in so many random places that it may have affected a vital organ, I cannot be assured that is the case.

He's still a young fish, but this does appear to be taking a toll on him.
Keep up with what you're doing and post if he starts acting more lethargic or starts to show less interest in food.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Thank you so much. So, you do think he is young? He looks so old to me now but when I bought him last Jan he looked so young and vibrant. He’s really has had quite a tough time with all of these issues. I feel so bad and am really trying. I’m just happy he acts happy. 

Is there anything you could recommend that might help give his immune system a boost ( supplements or food) that may help fight this? Thanks so much. Lauren


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

VitaChem is the only vitamin supplement that I know. It's all anecdotal but I still give it to my fish.
They tough little guys, I bet he doesn't even know anything is wrong with him.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi! Cool I will buy some VitaChem. I hope he doesn’t. He’s real playful today but his head continues to swell Thanks so much.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

YogisMom said:


> Hi! Cool I will buy some VitaChem. I hope he doesn’t. He’s real playful today but his head and upper back continues to swell. Thanks so much for your help as always. I really appreciate it.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> VitaChem is the only vitamin supplement that I know. It's all anecdotal but I still give it to my fish.
> They tough little guys, I bet he doesn't even know anything is wrong with him.


Hi again @Veloran, I’m really concerned this morning. The very top of his head/upper back region with all the swelling is now bleeding. Since it is at the top of his head I’m sort of freaking out. Here is a pic. Any new thoughts or just keep doing what I’m doing. I’m going to do a small water change today and give him a dark dose of IAL tea. I ordered the VitaChem. I’m real sorry to keep bugging you with this. His scales are real spiky up there too. Now I’m just watching pieces of the blood/scales fall off him and he’s trying to eat them. Not sure if he’s stressed.

I’m adding this to my message above. Now he is breathing heavy at the bottom of the tank. I’m sure he’s stressed. He ate the blood. Hope he’s ok. I’m no longer going to do a water change. He is too stressed and is hiding and hopefully sleeping. I turned his tank light off too.

Update at 4:20: He came up to eat dinner so thats a good sign. He’s not his normal self thoigh. I added some stress coat and the tea. I think he may be trying to scratch his head because he is rubbing it against the glass and trying to borough his face into the gravel or on the rocks. I’m going to leave him be. I don’t know what else I can do for him. I hope he just bounces back.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

@RussellTheShihTzu Hi Linda, I’m not sure if you have any thoughts on Yogi and my latest post. I let @Veloran know since we’ve been going back and forth on this. I’m not sure if you think there’s anything else I can do. I made a strong batch of the IAL tea and added some to his water. I don’t want to disturb him too much by doing a water change. He has come out a few times from hiding but unfortunately he just comes out, goes to the top for air and then swims back down to the bottom of the tank and hides. I just can’t believe how bad his head looks. I hope he’s just tired from so much going on in his body. Thanks so much. 🙏


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi there, so if he's going downhill rapidly, while I still believe that is lymphocystis, we can try him on a round of Kanaplex. I wanted to hold off before since the only symptoms were the cysts, but if he's showing other symptoms now, it may be time to move to something stronger.
It's possible that the stress from the infection has weakened his immune system and he may be facing multiple issues.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi there, so if he's going downhill rapidly, while I still believe that is lymphocystis, we can try him on a round of Kanaplex. I wanted to hold off before since the only symptoms were the cysts, but if he's showing other symptoms now, it may be time to move to something stronger.
> It's possible that the stress from the infection has weakened his immune system and he may be facing multiple issues.


Hi, so I think a day of resting yesterday really served him well. He’s up and about and alert so I will continue to watch for any more quick declines and medicate him. Does that sound like a better plan? I hate to medicate him too quickly, although yesterday I really felt it was necessary. I worry about putting too much on his system. He’s a strong-willed lil trooper so it feels real good that he feels better so far today. 

Tomorrow I clean his tank and will give him a heavy dose of the IAL tea with the VitaChem and keep monitoring him. Unless you think I should just go forward with the Kanaplex. My biggest concern is I don’t want to kill him with meds. I might sound paranoid. 

Thank you for always replying to me. You are all so great on this forum. I love Yogi so much. Who would’ve thought this cute little creature could bring me so much happiness (and a fair amount of worrying). Take care and have a good day. I will write with any major questions or developments.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Yes, keep an eye on him, let's hold off on the meds if he's zooming around better now.
Sometimes we see them get very lethargic and they get a sudden burst of energy then a steep decline. I hope it's not the case (which may not be since he's had this for so long).
As long as there are no symptoms, let his immune system deal with what he has going on.

And yes, most people think they are just fish until they interact with them and discover the big personalities.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Yes, keep an eye on him, let's hold off on the meds if he's zooming around better now.
> Sometimes we see them get very lethargic and they get a sudden burst of energy then a steep decline. I hope it's not the case (which may not be since he's had this for so long).
> As long as there are no symptoms, let his immune system deal with what he has going on.
> 
> And yes, most people think they are just fish until they interact with them and discover the big personalities.


Hi, that sounds like a good plan. I’m definitely watching him closely. I added the VitaChem this afternoon. He definitely appears to be having a good day still so fingers crossed. 

He’s so amazing and has an awesome personality. Thank you again very much! I’m so appreciative of all of your help. 🙏😊


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

YogisMom said:


> Hi, that sounds like a good plan. I’m definitely watching him closely. I added the VitaChem this afternoon. He definitely appears to be having a good day still so fingers crossed.
> 
> He’s so amazing and has an awesome personality. Thank you again very much! I’m so appreciative of all of your help. 🙏😊


Hi @Veloran, I hope you’re going well. I am pretty sure Yogis head has a fungal infection. It looked a bit suspicious the past few days so yesterday I did a water change and cleaning and I woke up this morning to fuzz on his head. Here are some pics. Should I start the kanaplex or the furan2? Do I remove the biomax balls in my filter? I don’t use carbon filters. Also, do I keep his bubbler off while medicating. Should I remove his Marimo balls? I added a couple new ones last week. Could that trigger a fungal infection? I’m so nervous. Thanks.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

@RussellTheShihTzu Hi Linda, I hope you’re doing well. I am really concerned for Yogi. I’m 99% sure he has a fungal infection on his head I will have to treat. I did a tank cleaning yesterday and unfortunately only had a few leaves left to boil so his tank is not as dark as I’d like but I have more leaves coming wed. 

I was wondering if you could take a look at my pics above to confirm this does look fungal. I plan to treat with Kanaplex. 

I’ve been giving him VitaChem with his food because he has been choking on his food if I don’t soften it. I also have Kordon’s fish protector. I’m sorry to bug you with this and can wait until Veloran to reply I was just curious on your thoughts. I’m really frustrated because his tank could not be cleaner and I’ve been so diligent with his care.

He has been acting normal otherwise although he has not been building bubble nests for the last few weeks. Thanks so much, Lauren


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi. It looks like the cyst on his head ruptured and got infected.
Time to start him on the Kanaplex.
Do you also have API Fungus Clear available to you?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, i don’t have that but I will check my local pet shop. So, do I just put the powder right in the tank? Also, would you recommend I remove the marimo balls or the bio balls? Anc should I shut the bubbler off. Thanks for getting back to me. n


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

I think I can only get the fungus cure online. Will he be ok if I wait a couple days til it arrives? I will start the Kanaplex today though of course.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Start on the Kanaplex first. It usually takes care of the fungus as well, but I've seen instances where it did not, so don't buy the fungus cure yet.

Bubbler on, carbon out of the tank. 
Marimo balls should be unaffected, but remove them if you're concerned.
Bio balls should be unaffected.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok sounds good. Thanks so much. Should I remove the moss balls?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

One more thing, should I shut his bubbler off?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Oops sorry I missed that part of your message thank you! I just put it in.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Start on the Kanaplex first. It usually takes care of the fungus as well, but I've seen instances where it did not, so don't buy the fungus cure yet.
> 
> Bubbler on, carbon out of the tank.
> Marimo balls should be unaffected, but remove them if you're concerned.
> Bio balls should be unaffected.


Hi @Veloran, I hope you’re having a nice day so far. I just gave Yogi his second does of the Kanaplex today. I’m not noticing much of an improvement on his head. I know it’s still early in his treatment but just to err on the side of caution I went a ahead and ordered the Fungus Cure. It will be here Friday or Sat. I’m curious if you think I should start it anc use along w the Kanaplex or wait until he finishes 3 rounds to see where’s he’s at. Thanks and no rush getting back to me.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Hope Yogi responds favorably to the Kanaplex.

I wasn't ignoring you but Veloran is far more knowledgeable than I on these matters. Ask me about fin rot, fin biting, early on-set bloat, etc., and I have a base of knowledge. But when it comes to issues which need antibiotics I'm at a loss.

The first tank shows the minimum color when adding tannins. The bottom is what I do when it's for ailing fish.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

YogisMom said:


> Hi @Veloran, I hope you’re having a nice day so far. I just gave Yogi his second does of the Kanaplex today. I’m not noticing much of an improvement on his head. I know it’s still early in his treatment but just to err on the side of caution I went a ahead and ordered the Fungus Cure. It will be here Friday or Sat. I’m curious if you think I should start it anc use along w the Kanaplex or wait until he finishes 3 rounds to see where’s he’s at. Thanks and no rush getting back to me.


Hi, thank you, it's been quite so far.
I would hold off on the fungus cure. Typically fungus is a side effect of necrotic tissue, if the Kanaplex can help out with his open wound it should also take care of the fungus.
You may also need to add in some aquarium salt once the Kanaplex treatment is complete.
Here's hoping he pulls through, this is a pretty severe case.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Hope Yogi responds favorably to the Kanaplex.
> 
> I wasn't ignoring you but Veloran is far more knowledgeable than I on these matters. Ask me about fin rot, fin biting, early on-set bloat, etc., and I have a base of knowledge. But when it comes to issues which need antibiotics I'm at a loss.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I hope you’re having a nice Thanksgiving!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, thank you, it's been quite so far.
> I would hold off on the fungus cure. Typically fungus is a side effect of necrotic tissue, if the Kanaplex can help out with his open wound it should also take care of the fungus.
> You may also need to add in some aquarium salt once the Kanaplex treatment is complete.
> Here's hoping he pulls through, this is a pretty severe case.


Thank you so much. I notice the fine hairs from the fungus or tissue fall off when he’s moving around. Does this usually happen? Tomorrow is his 3rd dose and I need to clean his tank too.
It does look severe but I’m really praying this works. 
Also, Happy Thanksgiving. I’m so thankful to have your help through all of this.🙏


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

@Veloran I attached a couple pics I took today. Do you think it looks worse. I feel like it does when compared to the other day.

edit: I have a small plug in UV sterilizer in the room I keep Yogi. It’s by Germ Guardian and I am just reading that you need to remove aquarium UV sterilizers from tank before using using the Zanaflex. Is this ok? Should I keep it unplugged.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi @Veloran, I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. I wanted to send some updated pics. I think a good amount of the fuzz/hairs are gone but the wound still looks so sore and so big. I’m hopeful that the meds are doing their job. I figured I would include a few pics to see what you think moving forward. He has had his 3 doses of Kanaplex. His tank is spotless and I put a lot of IAL tea in his water. Should I do another dose tomorrow? I have the Fungus Cure arriving today too. Should I hold off? I also have Furan 2 and other meds on hand. Anyway, thanks in advance. I hope you’re doing well.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

I don’t have any input on the meds but I think it looks better! And you are amazing for trying so hard for this little guy.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

BettaloverSara said:


> I don’t have any input on the meds but I think it looks better! And you are amazing for trying so hard for this little guy.


Hi! Thank you so much. He’s such an amazing boy and it really hurts my heart to think he’s in any pain. I’m so glad you think he’s improved. I’m just trying to keep everything around him relaxing and positive. He has a great attitude though and is definitely a strong boy! Thanks for your kindness. 🙏 😊


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi @Veloran, so unfortunately Yogi’s head is real fuzzy again this morning. I thought he was improving yesterday but now I’m not so sure. I think it looks less raw and maybe it has flattened out more and looks less ragged but I’m not sure. I’m sorry for all of the messages. Here are some pics from this am. Today is 48 hours out from his last Kanaplex dose (his 3rd). It’s hard to tell if it has improved now. In case you went straight to this message I have Furan 2, more Kanaplex and also the Fungus Cure. I included 2pics from this am. He came out to greet me this am and he ate. I recently read about something bettas get called hole in the head. Could this be something he’s afflicted with? Thanks so much.














nks so much. Lauren


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

If you maintenance was sloppy at best there's a possibility it could be Hole-in-the-Head Disease. I also don't see any lesions in his head or lateral line. However, we all know how that goes.  I read treatment is Metronidazole. 

I think he does look somewhat better. Improvement can be so slight as to be hard to notice.

He's eating and active, correct?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, it’s probably not HITH . Thank you for commenting. 😊 I will see what Veloran recommends with meds. I’m not sure if I should keep going with the Kanaplex. 

Yogi is eating and seems very happy. He was his usual flirty self today too. He’s been resting a lot more and hasn’t made a bubble nest in about a month now but his body is fighting hard to beat this. 

I’m so happy you see improvement. Thank you for letting me know this. I’ve been so upset about all of this. At this point, I need to be more patient and it’s hard to do. 😕. I can’t thank you enough for all of your help.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, sorry I haven't been on for a bit.
Start him on the Fungus Cure, we can look at another round of Kanaplex afterwards.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, sorry I haven't been on for a bit.
> Start him on the Fungus Cure, we can look at another round of Kanaplex afterwards.


Hi @Veloran No worries at all. I’m wondering how to proceed as far as adding this. I did a 50% water change and tank cleaning on Friday and added his last dose of the Kanaplex.

Do you recommend I do another thorough cleaning and water change today before I add the Fungus Cure or add it to his water now? Also, do I need to flush out the remaining Kanaplex with a carbon filter? I never use them because i don’t want to remove the tannins but I bought some just in case. Thanks so much for your help.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

While the Fungus Cure can be used in conjunction with the Kanaplex, I would always recommend changing the water before adding new medications if possible.
You should not need to run the carbon filter, the Kanaplex in aqueous deteriorates fairly quickly.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, thank you. I will have to wait until tomorrow because he’s asleep for the night and I don’t want to stress him out. I’m on the east coast. I will do it early tomorrow am. Do you feel he will be ok if I add it tomorrow?


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> While the Fungus Cure can be used in conjunction with the Kanaplex, I would always recommend changing the water before adding new medications if possible.
> You should not need to run the carbon filter, the Kanaplex in aqueous deteriorates fairly quickly.


Sorry for another message but I forgot to mention his head was really fuzzy today. It was actually hanging off and getting in his face when he was on the move. I hope the Fungus Cure works.

I know you mentioned to me before that Yogi looks young. Do you have any guess on how old he looks? I got him this past January. Thanks for all of your help as always. I can’t believe how helpful this forum has been.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

I would say he's a year and a half to two years, but with all of the lesions, it's hard to tell for sure. I'm not going to get your hopes up, but he doesn't look well, and I'm surprised that he's as active as he is, but that's a good sign I guess. I'm hoping he pulls through.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Thank you for being honest. He is definitely napping more. It’s so hard for me to tell because one minute he’ll be swimming around and comes out to greet me and he’s eating but his head looks terrible. The pics are pretty accurate but up close it’s actually a little shocking to look at. I will just keep doing what I can. I won’t let him suffer though. Thank again for you help. I will clean his tank with water change and put the IAL tea and meds in early am and hope for the best. Have a nice night. 🙏☮


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi @Veloran, Yogi is not doing well. I’m a wreck over this and I’m struggling with how to move forward. Today he’s due for more Fungus Cure. I don’t know if I should keep going or if I should let nature take its course. He’s not active. He did not eat for me this am. He spit his first pellet out and swam off. His head is still covered in fungus although the swelling has gone down. And he seems depressed. He pretty much floats in one corner of his tank at the top of the water. It’s so upsetting to talk about this. 

Have you seen a betta bounce back from such a severe case? My main goal is to make him as comfortable as possible and I know the meds can be tough on them and I don’t want to make things more stressful on him so I’m really struggling. If you have any advice or input I would appreciate it. Thank you so much.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

YogisMom said:


> let nature take its course.


I've been watching this as you have gone along with your boy's issue, and not to argue with Veloran but if this were my fish I would obtain some clove oil (there's a method to using it properly so be sure to research it if this is what you decide to do) or utilize another method of humane euthanasia (for any other readers or lurkers to this thread, flushing down the toilet isn't humane), rather than continuing or letting nature take its course any longer.

You and he have given it the good fight, but in my opinion I really think it's time to let him go. Whatever you decide to do, I'm so sorry this happened to you  You've been incredible for him {hugs}.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> I've been watching this as you have gone along with your boy's issue, and not to argue with Veloran but if this were my fish I would obtain some clove oil (there's a method to using it properly so be sure to research this if this is what you decide to do) or utilize another method of humane euthanasia (for any other readers or lurkers to this thread, flushing down the toilet isn't humane), rather than continuing or letting nature take its course any longer.
> 
> You and he have given it the good fight, but in my opinion I really think it's time to let him go. Whatever you decide to do, I'm so sorry this happened to you


Hi @Mbpoppy, thank you so much for your message and kind words. Last week I did some research and ordered some clove oil. I wanted to be prepared in case I needed it. I want him to go peacefully and even though I am really scared to euthanize him, I will if necessary. I don’t want him to suffer. He’s been through so much - I can’t even write this without crying. This is so hard. He’s my lil baby and I love him so much but his poor little body has been through so much. 
I need to really think about this and I will see how @Veloran feels but I will do what’s best for him. I honestly wish he would fall asleep and pass because I’m so scared but I don’t know how much more he can take. 
Thank you for caring and following this tough ordeal. I really appreciate your help and support. Take care, Lauren


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

I've never seen a wound that grievous, so it's a tough call, all we can do is to keep attacking it.
My general principle is that if the fish is willing to fight, I'll fight with him. That being said, I don't make recommendations on what one should do with their pet, it's a personal choice that should be made by the owner. We will assist in any way possible.
I have seen miracle recoveries, but those are not the norm.
If you choose to fight, finish the Fungus Cure, change the water and get him another round of Kanaplex. All we're doing is trying to control the symptoms while his immune system takes care of the virus.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> I've never seen a wound that grievous, so it's a tough call, all we can do is to keep attacking it.
> My general principle is that if the fish is willing to fight, I'll fight with him. That being said, I don't make recommendations on what one should do with their pet, it's a personal choice that should be made by the owner. We will assist in any way possible.
> I have seen miracle recoveries, but those are not the norm.
> If you choose to fight, finish the Fungus Cure, change the water and get him another round of Kanaplex. All we're doing is trying to control the symptoms while his immune system takes care of the virus.


Hi, thank you for your help. I will finish the Fungus Cure. If it offers him any comfort with his symptoms and there is a small chance of a turnaround, I will fight for him because I know he is a fighter. If at any point he seems to be breathing heavy or distressed I won’t let him suffer. I don’t want to give up on him but I’m doing my best to keep things in perspective. In all my research I haven’t seen such a terrible wound either. I know it’s healing but the persistent fungus worries me. I’m just worried all around.
I will reach out again if I feel euthanasia is the only option. I will need help though.


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

I would think euthanasia would be the only option if it was my pet, the tumor seems very serious and there is a chance you will lose him no-matter what you do. I'm sorry he is doing so poorly.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

So, I've been thinking, if you wanted we could try 'methylene blue', I'd recommend the dip over the bath to lower stress.
You'll need a separate container as it will stain his tank. Instructions below if you choose:


Prepare a nonmetallic container of sufficient size to contain the fish to be treated by adding water similar to the original aquarium.
Add 5 teaspoons (24.65 ml) per 3 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 50 ppm. It is not recommended that the concentration is increased beyond 50 ppm.
Place fish to be treated in this solution for no longer than 10 seconds.
Return fish to the original aquarium.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> So, I've been thinking, if you wanted we could try 'methylene blue', I'd recommend the dip over the bath to lower stress.
> You'll need a separate container as it will stain his tank. Instructions below if you choose:
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I will do this. Do you recommend a particular brand of methylene blue? I’m not sure how hard it will be for me to find locally unless Petsmart or Petco have it so I will call around but I can order online from amazon prime. There is an aquarium shop I can call too. Should I do this while treating with the Fungus Cure or should I wait until Saturday (if I can find the Methalyne Blue tonight or tomorrow) after the 48 hours is up. Thanks so much for this advice. It’s definitely worth a shot.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Finish the fungus cure, it's the better course of treatment, the Methylene Blue is just another direction from which to attack it.
I don't have a particular brand I can recommend. I can't remember where I bought mine, it's been a while. I can't imagine a LFS won't have it, they use it a lot with new and sick fish.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Finish the fungus cure, it's the better course of treatment, the Methylene Blue is just another direction from which to attack it.
> I don't have a particular brand I can recommend. I can't remember where I bought mine, it's been a while. I can't imagine a LFS won't have it, they use it a lot with new and sick fish.


I will give them a call when they open up. They should have it. Thanks so much again for your help and for thinking of Yogi today. Have a good night and I’m sure I will talk to you soon.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Finish the fungus cure, it's the better course of treatment, the Methylene Blue is just another direction from which to attack it.
> I don't have a particular brand I can recommend. I can't remember where I bought mine, it's been a while. I can't imagine a LFS won't have it, they use it a lot with new and sick fish.


Hi, quick question, am I doing more harm than good if I leave Yogis bright lights off? I’m trying to keep things calm for him. I’m still running the air stone bubbler. He’s still not eating but he’s come out to me a few times to say hi but he’s mostly resting under his leaves or floating in his log and he will swim a little bit to the top for some air. I think the bubbler is a little tough to fight swim over too but he has plenty of hiding spots. My local fish store has Meth Blue so I’m going to grab that for tomorrow. Thanks and no rush,


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

Hi? I just happened to see your question...I think based on their natural habitat, I'd leave the lights off and just let him have daylight (no direct sunlight). 
Can you baffle/decrease the bubbler?


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Lights are for plants and for us, they prefer shade or darker areas, so you can leave the lights off.
As long as he can get away from the bubbles if he want's that's fine. The air stone helps oxygenate the water and reduces the need to surface for air.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, that sounds good. His tank is nice and dark too from the IAL tea plus the Fungus Cure turns it green. I don’t have a baffle. I can get one though unless you think a paper clip or something would work? I can try it. Thanks for your help. 🙏


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Lights are for plants and for us, they prefer shade or darker areas, so you can leave the lights off.
> As long as he can get away from the bubbles if he want's that's fine. The air stone helps oxygenate the water and reduces the need to surface for air.


Ok sounds good. I’m going to keep them off. I picked up Kordon’s Methalyne Blue and will do the dip bath tomorrow. Thank you so much. I will keep you updated.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Lights are for plants and for us, they prefer shade or darker areas, so you can leave the lights off.
> As long as he can get away from the bubbles if he want's that's fine. The air stone helps oxygenate the water and reduces the need to surface for air.
> 
> 
> > Hi @Veloran Should I do a large water change tomorrow when I clean his tank. I’m sorry for all of my questions. Fungus Cure recommends only 25% water change and running the activated carbon. I just want to make sure I do everything right. Thank you again. Have a nice night.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

YogisMom said:


> . I don’t have a baffle.


Some people put a kink in the line to decrease the amount of air although that can be a little hard on the pump, and I've also seen where a piece of decor was placed over the bubbler. That could help disperse the bubbles or maybe redirect them to a different area of his tank? ...although I don't know if that would help him as much as having more gentle bubble action will.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> Some people put a kink in the line to decrease the amount of air although that can be a little hard on the pump, and I've also seen where a piece of decor was placed over the bubbler. That could help disperse the bubbles or maybe redirect them to a different area of his tank? ...although I don't know if that would help him as much as having more gentle bubble action will.


Hi, today when I clean his tank I will try to reduce it more if I can. I put a large clip on the tubing last night and it might have helped slow it a bit more but I can get creative too. He seemed to do fine with it last night from what I can tell. I used to have the volcano bubbler but it started to fall apart, I bought a new one and that one did the same after a month. So, now it’s just the bubbler and stone. Thank you for all of your help. Yogi ate a couple pellets this morning. He hadn’t eaten for a few days so I’m remaining hopeful. I hope you have a nice day 😊


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Lights are for plants and for us, they prefer shade or darker areas, so you can leave the lights off.
> As long as he can get away from the bubbles if he want's that's fine. The air stone helps oxygenate the water and reduces the need to surface for air.


Hi @Veloran, I picked up some frozen daphnia yesterday at the fish store. I’ve been trying to find some for a while now so I figured I’d grab it. I know it’s useful while medicated but curious if you think it will be too hard on his stomach? He has eaten for me today. 2 pellets for bkfst and one for lunch. I’m very happy about this. I’m just curious on your thoughts. Thanks so much.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

YogisMom said:


> Hi @Veloran, I picked up some frozen daphnia yesterday at the fish store. I’ve been trying to find some for a while now so I figured I’d grab it. I know it’s useful while medicated but curious if you think it will be too hard on his stomach? He has eaten for me today. 2 pellets for bkfst and one for lunch. I’m very happy about this. I’m just curious on your thoughts. Thanks so much.


I’m updating this: he ate two more pieces. So 2 for bkfst and 3 for lunch. His head looks bad but it doesn’t look as swollen and the fungus might be starting to clear. It’s real hard to tell but I’m just happy he’s eating. Sorry for all the posts just wanted to update.

I have a couple questions maybe anyone could help me with. I’m curious how long to run to activated carbon to take out the meds. I usually don’t use them and want to make sure it doesn’t remove the tannins from the IAL tea I’m adding today too. Thanks again.


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## Mbpoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

I can't help with your filter question but wow! He's eating, no kidding!?!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Mbpoppy said:


> I can't help with your filter question but wow! He's eating, no kidding!?!


I know! I can’t believe he is either. He had one pellet for dinner too. I finished up his tank so he’s good for the night. He’s definitely not out of the woods though but he had a better day so I can’t complain. I’m going to do the dip tomorrow with the methylene blue. I don’t want to do too much in one day and stress him out. Thanks for all your support. Yogi says thank you too 🐠


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Hi, the pellets contain the most nutrition so if he's eating those, I'd stick with it. The Northfin is the best.

You generally only need to turn over the tank once or twice but most people usually run the the activated carbon for 24 hours.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi, okay great. I’m so glad he’s eating. He was out much more today too. He’s a very sick lil guy. It’s pretty hard to see his head unless I’m looking down at it because his water is really dark with tannins.
Tomorrow I’m doing the dip. I hope I don’t stress him out. I never take him out of his tank so I’m a little nervous. I hope you have a great night and thank you for your help with this.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

There's really no reason to reduce the bubbler unless it's blowing him around the tank. Bubblers provide some extra oxygenation which is a good thing. As Veloran noted, unless it is giving him trouble leave it be.

Glad he's eating a bit for you.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> There's really no reason to reduce the bubbler unless it's blowing him around the tank. Bubblers provide some extra oxygenation which is a good thing. As Veloran noted, unless it is giving him trouble leave it be.
> 
> Glad he's eating a bit for you.


Hi, okay that sounds good. I’ve kept it running and he is doing fine with it. He actually just ate a couple for breakfast today too. Thank you for all your help and support.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, the pellets contain the most nutrition so if he's eating those, I'd stick with it. The Northfin is the best.
> 
> You generally only need to turn over the tank once or twice but most people usually run the the activated carbon for 24 hours.


Hi, his dip in the MB is done. He put up a little fight getting him in the net so he’s a bit stressed but I’m remaining hopeful. At some point I’d like to put a couple pics up so hopefully later. He did eat again for me today. Hopefully he gets some rest and keeps improving. He’s a fighter. 
Thanks and talk to you later.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Hi, the pellets contain the most nutrition so if he's eating those, I'd stick with it. The Northfin is the best.
> 
> You generally only need to turn over the tank once or twice but most people usually run the the activated carbon for 24 hours.


Hi @Veloran, I wanted to let you know Yogi is slightly improving. He’s been eating well for me and did good with the dip. He still has fungus on his head as far as I can see in his tank (it’s very dark). 


I’m cleaning his tank again today and I’m going to remove him into my spare tank, first adding his existing water into it while I clean it to hopefully reduce the stress. . I will put him back in his tank after cleaning it. I

Anyway, my question is that after this, would you recommend another dose of Kanaplex or possibly starting him on Furan 2? His water parameter levels have remained steady and good’m unsure if the MB has a lasting and working effect after the dip and should I hold off medicating again.

thank you for your help. Yogi is responding very positively but the wound is still very large but from what I can see it does look like it may be healing in some parts and it is definitely is not swollen.

talk To you soon. Lauren


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

If you have the Furan 2, we can try a round of that, it targets many of the same bacteria as Kanaplex but also targets some Kanaplex does not. I suspect he'll need some Fungus cure afterwards as well.
I'm tempted to do a round of Furan 2 + Kanaplex, but the dosing requirement is strict and it is very rough on the fish, so if he's improving, I'll use them separately.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi @Veloran, yes he’s definitely on the upswing. He’s been very curious and I notice he’s gained strength. Plus, the fact that he lets me know he’s hungry and eats is very positive. Ok, tomorrow I will start the Furan2. These are the best I could do for pics today. I feel nervous posting them because they are severe/harsh to look at but they are not bleeding and this the best it has looked over the past week. It really flattened out. He’s definitely not out of the woods. Thanks for your help with this.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> If you have the Furan 2, we can try a round of that, it targets many of the same bacteria as Kanaplex but also targets some Kanaplex does not. I suspect he'll need some Fungus cure afterwards as well.
> I'm tempted to do a round of Furan 2 + Kanaplex, but the dosing requirement is strict and it is very rough on the fish, so if he's improving, I'll use them separately.


Hi again, I never included pics to this forum of when I first started to notice the cyst or tumor growing. Here are a couple.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> If you have the Furan 2, we can try a round of that, it targets many of the same bacteria as Kanaplex but also targets some Kanaplex does not. I suspect he'll need some Fungus cure afterwards as well.
> I'm tempted to do a round of Furan 2 + Kanaplex, but the dosing requirement is strict and it is very rough on the fish, so if he's improving, I'll use them separately.


This is an edit from my original message.
Hi, the Furan2 says to remove all filter media so I removed the big filter sponge and the ceramic bio balls from my Fluval spec V. Is this right to remove the whole unit. Also, where do I keep the big sponge and balls during this process to keep them fresh for when I put back in his tank? And should I shut the filter off or keep it running. The directions say continue aeration but not sure if I still keep it on since the airstone bubbler is running. Thanks


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

The reason it says to remove your filter media is because it will kill your biologic filtration. You can keep the filter running for waterflow if you like but keep the media safe and wet elsewhere.
It is not necessary to keep the filter running, the aeration from the air stone will be sufficient. It is not absolutely necessary as betta are anabantoids and can breathe air from the surface, but I'm sure he'll appreciate the extra oxygenation in the tank.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, great. Thank you very much. He did not eat today. I will try again later. I hope he’s not declining again. His tank and Furan2 are all set so I’m hoping he perks up again. Thank you again and have a nice day.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> The reason it says to remove your filter media is because it will kill your biologic filtration. You can keep the filter running for waterflow if you like but keep the media safe and wet elsewhere.
> It is not necessary to keep the filter running, the aeration from the air stone will be sufficient. It is not absolutely necessary as betta are anabantoids and can breathe air from the surface, but I'm sure he'll appreciate the extra oxygenation in the tank.


I think Yogi might be dying. He is breathing but real heavy with his head down and is hiding from me and has been a lot today. His head is covered in fungus again. He came up for some air and is now hiding from me again. I’m hoping that he falls asleep and goes peacefully if this is his end but I also don’t want him to suffer. 

Like I mentioned before, I have clove oil. I can barely write this because I’m so upset it’s so hard to say but how would I use it correctly if it comes to this. I just don’t want him to suffer and if he is struggling I don’t know what to do.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> The reason it says to remove your filter media is because it will kill your biologic filtration. You can keep the filter running for waterflow if you like but keep the media safe and wet elsewhere.
> It is not necessary to keep the filter running, the aeration from the air stone will be sufficient. It is not absolutely necessary as betta are anabantoids and can breathe air from the surface, but I'm sure he'll appreciate the extra oxygenation in the tank.


He is still upright. Could the Furan2 be too tough on him? Should I remove some water and replace with new water? He can still swim and will float a little at the top of the water and go back down to hide. His colors look bright still and the wound is hard to see due to the dark water but I can see a lot of fuzz on it. I don’t know if at this point he can’t survive the severity of the wound. I have more IAL tea brewing and was thinking of adding more to his tank. Or should I let him be. I’m at such a loss now and just don’t want to jump into euthanizing him if he might be ok.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Don't stop the meds mid course. It could be co-incidental that the decline happened the same time as the meds and that it would have happened anyway. It might be the last for him, but if he does go tonight, let him go out fighting.
Having his head down isn't good, being upright and bright colors are in his favor.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Okay, thank you so much. I’m remaining hopeful. He came out a few times tonight to see me so that made me feel better. He really looked rough for a while there today but he’s still fighting. His breathing seemed to normalize too. I’m really praying for a better day for him tomorrow. He’s an extraordinary boy. Thank you again and have a nice night.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Veloran said:


> Don't stop the meds mid course. It could be co-incidental that the decline happened the same time as the meds and that it would have happened anyway. It might be the last for him, but if he does go tonight, let him go out fighting.
> Having his head down isn't good, being upright and bright colors are in his favor.
> [/QUOTE
> Hi. Yogi passed away last night. I tried my very best and he fought so hard. I miss him terribly but feel a sense of calm knowing he’s no longer suffering. Thank you for all of your help to all those on this forum that helped me help Yogi. I’ve gained so much knowledge from you on betta care and I’m so grateful to have all of this support.


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## BettaloverSara (Oct 15, 2020)

Oh no I’m so sorry! I was so hoping he would turn around. He was so lucky to have you, you did an amazing job!


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

BettaloverSara said:


> Oh no I’m so sorry! I was so hoping he would turn around. He was so lucky to have you, you did an amazing job!


Thank you. That’s so nice of you to say. 
I know, me too. He was doing better for a few days so I was remaining real hopeful. He was so loved and it hurts knowing I won’t see his beautiful face every day. He was so special. Thank you again.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

I do have one question if anyone can help but in order to clean and sanitize his filter, tank and heaters (I will throw out everything else) should I use a bleach solution? Or vinegar? I’m sure at some point I will adopt another but want to make sure I do this right. Thx again.


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

Sorry for your loss, we knew it was going to be a difficult road without a certainty of outcome, but at least you tried and he didn't linger suffering.

You can clean his tank and everything with hot water if you don't plan to have another fish for the next 35 days. I've never really cleaned my tanks with bleach or anything, I rotate them, someone more versed maybe can help on the concentration of bleach or vinegar.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Thank you. I know I did everything I could for him and he got so much love and attention. He’s at peace now. It’s so hard to watch a pet go through such a tough time. I felt so bad for him yesterday. 
Ok, thank you for your info on sanitizing. And thank you again for everything. Take care, Lauren


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## Veloran (Jun 28, 2014)

@YogisMom, I can move that last post to Betta Memorials if you give me a title for the thread.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Thank you, I really appreciate it. “Rest In Peace, Yogi” is perfect.


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## Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. (Sep 30, 2019)

Sorry, I just got the news. I know you tried your best.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

So sorry about Yogi. You gave it your all and so did he.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

Fish 4 sale ¢50 a fish. said:


> Sorry, I just got the news. I know you tried your best.


Thank you so much.


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## YogisMom (Jul 7, 2020)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> So sorry about Yogi. You gave it your all and so did he.


Thank you so much


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