# Red Sores and Fungus on Platos tail tips....acting funny....help? :-(



## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Hello everyone....

Well today started off great....two new Aquabid arrivals....and they are GORGEOUS (will post pics soon). However, Plato my beautiful metallic platinum butterfly has fallen ill, thus has stolen their thunder.

I try not to play favorites, but this guy, he is just beautiful. He's a rosetail, and the only one of my males who is not a tail biter.

Imagine my surprise when I noticed a red sore on the tip of his tail. I moved him to a new tank with a whole change of water....and that's when I noticed it. FUNGUS!

Or what appeared to be fungus. It's fuzzy, and white/grey. I immediatly reacted and treated him with Maroxy by Mardel. Within a few hours, many parts of his tail (only the tips!) have started to turn red....and there is more fuzzy stuff! You have to look really closely....and there is even a bit on the tip of his dorsal now. *sigh*.

So I am wondering....could it be Columnaris? Isn't that more of an attack on the body?

Then I wonder, is it fin rot?! I have never seen fin rot so RED on the edges, and I've never had fuzzies on the end!

I will be devastated if I cannot cure him. As will my hubby, Plato is his fav. Not to mention he's at the top of my breeding plans. He MUST get better! 

Any suggestions/advice? Should I continue the Maroxy? Or should I start treatment with Maracyn and Maracyn Two?

:-(
Thanks in advance....



Oh and here are some pictures....hope these work!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=642211&id=822675290&l=4e466102ef


P.S. I should also mention, I noticed him sleeping a lot....he's always tired and at the bottom, the first sign of something bad. He's still eating, and when he DOES get up, he seems ok. Other than his clamped dorsal. Not his pectorials ones like other bettas do. He also used to float around all displayed, graceful....but now he just ends up floating vertical, with his tail weighing him down. I guess he is KIND of clamping:-(


I have just added some aquarium salt as well....


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## CrowntailxKing (Mar 18, 2011)

Yikes! Hopefully the aquarium salt will do the trick  I always have a little bit of salt in the tank so that the chance of getting fungus or fin rot will be harder to get


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks crowntailxking!

Well last night he wasn't moving much, so I TRIED to let him sleep. I must have checked on him a dozen times. Boy am I ever tired this morning!

So now he moves when provoked but prefers to rest. There are lots of red areas on the edges of his tail and a bit on the edge of his dorsal. Beside him, however, was the biggest piece of fuzz that was on his tail last night.

I am not sure if this means the Maroxy is working, but I have decided to do the cocktail of Maroxy, Maracyn and Maracyn Two today, as this is apparently ok according to Mardels pamplet. I will call them for verification.

I took pics of the fuzzy bit with my phone and my loop. I added them to the album located in my first post. 


Anyone recognize this? Please? :-(


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Oh man his tail is getting worse  Poor boy! Is it maybe some unknown bacterial infection? If you're not seeing any progress, I'd also try to find other types (full spectrum) of antibiotics... But I'm really not experienced with betta diseases

Edit: Apparently adding lots of meds to the water can make it more difficult for the bettas to breathe (I don't know why and if this is true lol)... so if you have an airstone or aerator it might help him recover faster?

Bah so sad.


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

monroe0704 said:


> Oh man his tail is getting worse  Poor boy! Is it maybe some unknown bacterial infection? If you're not seeing any progress, I'd also try to find other types (full spectrum) of antibiotics... But I'm really not experienced with betta diseases
> 
> Edit: Apparently adding lots of meds to the water can make it more difficult for the bettas to breathe (I don't know why and if this is true lol)... so if you have an airstone or aerator it might help him recover faster?
> 
> Bah so sad.


I know:-( And I totally blame myself for this!
Good call on the airstone idea. Will have to pick one up....
I am kinda glad the fuzz fell off. But it's just more confusing now....y'know? ARG. I should have bred him while I had the chance, he is truely the most beautiful fish (well to me and hubby). There was just something about him.... *sigh* I could have at LEAST passed it on. Thought it would not have helped because HE is awesome!


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Ok an update!

Yesterday he was getting better it seemed, hardly any fuzz left, more active, etc.

This morning I wake up, and it's all grown back....even more so than before! But only on the ends of his fins where it is red!

He is on a mix of Maroxy, Maracyn, and Maracyn II with a bit of salt.

I am SO FRUSTRATED!!!!

I have been talking with another breeder who has used the 'razor knife treatment' for different ailments. I am thinking that this may be a good idea....I can carefully cut off the bad ends and put him into a salt bath afterwards and then back into his tank which would be clean and re-medicated....

Drastic, yes, but at this point what other options do I have? He is laying there getting worse!!!!

:-(

I have also put the fallen off fungus from the other day into a cup with a freeze dried bloodworm. The bloodworm is covered. Does this mean fungus for sure? It's almost a green/grey color. 

Any more advice before I take this drastic measure? It has to happen today, I fear he will not last if something is not done....


:-(

Thanks in advance!


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

I've heard that if the disease is also ravaging his insides, you'll have to feed medicated food to cleanse his body as well. In this case, it wouldn't matter how clean his environment is, he'd still have the bacteria/parasite in his system.

Man I'm so sorry for such a horrible illness! Oh, a stupid and obvious question, you are doing water changes daily right lol


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

monroe0704 said:


> I've heard that if the disease is also ravaging his insides, you'll have to feed medicated food to cleanse his body as well. In this case, it wouldn't matter how clean his environment is, he'd still have the bacteria/parasite in his system.
> 
> Man I'm so sorry for such a horrible illness! Oh, a stupid and obvious question, you are doing water changes daily right lol




OH I just got some serious advice from a fish pharm company. They said it's PARASITES!!!! I have noticed him twitching and freaking out all of a sudden, but it's so rare that he does it. She said the fungus is a secondary thing and that I need to get something called PraziPro. She seemed pretty darn sure from my description and apparently it's not bad yet if it's at the tips of his fins!

I'm off to the pet store now to find this stuff, hopefully I can find it!


And the water changes....I do RELIGIOUSLY especially now. No more 50% either....full on 100% stuff.

Oh and she also said not to use salt. Strange!

Will update!!!!


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

Wow glad you found some advice! Hope he starts showing recovery with that treatment


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

monroe0704 said:


> Wow glad you found some advice! Hope he starts showing recovery with that treatment




Ok so here is what happened. I found a fish speciality shop who said they had the stuff in stock. When I went, they made a mistake, it was sold out. When asked what the ailment was, I tried to explain, and the guy was like, ohhh man, you need to talk to our 'fish expert' he happens to be in right now.

The dude seemed to know what he was talking about when we chatted. I showed him pictures. He took me to the med section and went through what each ingredient did in each medication I was putting in. 

I came home with some Malachite Green and a med that starts with a K....ends with a cin. He said this stuff (the 'K' one) was good because it's easier for Bettas to absorb....because they breathe air, a lot of the other meds were not as effective. He took a look at the pics and listened to my description and time line of events and doubted it was paracites. It seems like some kind of bacterial infection and the fungus is just a secondary thing attacking the dying flesh. Makes sense. It also makes sense because I have been using a higher PH water in Arizona (reverse osmosis stuff) which can help fungus thrive apparently (hard water). I will be switching back to the soft spring water soon, let me tell ya!

I am also doubting parasites now, because this has been going on for 4 days, do they not move around and attack other areas? I guess bacteria can too, I don't know, but I've been keeping that at bay with salt and other stuff.

As for the very rare JERKING around that I saw, which could mean parasites, I've only seen him do it a couple of times, and believe me I've been watching this fish like a hawk, lol! Dude at the pet store said it can also be from the irritation....


Oh Plato, SPEAK TO ME! Tell me what is wrooooonggggg!


Anyhoo, I was doing 100% water changes daily but for him I will do this twice. Why? Because this morning while going to change it for the day, I noticed the darn fungus surrounding a cat hair that got in there! I mean this stuff is WEIRD it attacks everything. Grrrrr!



So todays treatment consisted of cutting off the bad part of his tail with the fungus, giving him a salt bath, and putting him in the new cocktail of meds. All of this fussing has stressed him out, he is just laying there. I feel so bad. He is breathing a bit harder now, but maybe that is because of the meds. I am about to hook up an airstone for him.

His dark eyes have turned a light blue....something that happens when he's either sleeping or sick....and it's not night time, sooooo....not cool. I am very worried. 

:-(


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

if that fuzzy stuff is what i think it is, it's nothing *i* worry about. i sometimes see it on Cup's tail, if he gets a new rip in it and i don't catch the new rip right away. i treat it the same way i treat Cup's tail, with clean, warm water and aquarium salt.

i sure hope that, whatever it is, clears up fast. ;A: he's such a pretty fishie!


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> if that fuzzy stuff is what i think it is, it's nothing *i* worry about. i sometimes see it on Cup's tail, if he gets a new rip in it and i don't catch the new rip right away. i treat it the same way i treat Cup's tail, with clean, warm water and aquarium salt.
> 
> i sure hope that, whatever it is, clears up fast. ;A: he's such a pretty fishie!




Me too Luimeril! Maybe the fungus isn't the stuff I should be worrying about as much as the red rawness at the ends of the tail. Whatever is causing that, is really making him sick:-(

He's so tired now....just laying there at the bottom....I never had a chance to spawn him yet. But not just that, he's kinda one of those guys that stand out from the rest! 

:-(


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

try shooting OFL a PM. maybe she can help ya? he certainly is beautiful!


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Luimeril said:


> try shooting OFL a PM. maybe she can help ya? he certainly is beautiful!


Yup, I PMed her, got some good advice. It's hard to say what it is, but NOW I am seeing fungus in most of the Bettas tanks. On the poop. Some in the java, and it even attaches to cat fur that accidently gets in there.

Which leads me to believe that something is up with the water, as I change their tanks 100% everyday! Which also means that it's a secondary thing on Plato. The fungus is attacking his dying flesh. Now I have to figure out what the FIRST problem is!!

He is sitting half on the bubbler, poor guy!
ARG!


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

An update!

After cutting off the piece with the fuzz, bathing him in salt, and adding him to a 1/2 gallon of clean water with Malachite Green and some other medication that is supposed to help, he is laying down, not moving much. Only to get air. He looks terrible. And not two hours after cutting the fuzz off, it's back again!

OLF has brought up 'water mold' which I am looking into. It could be attacking the bleeding flesh, which would maybe make it a secondary problem.



I have also noticed this mold in the other tanks, yet no one is affected by it. I am going to change the water source back to spring water with a lower PH.


For now, I want to get everyone away from this crap, and I need to get Plato healed! This is driving me insane!


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Ok update. He is still at the bottom of the tank with 'glued fins'. Very clamped. He goes up for air, but not much else. His little side fins are mostly waving around thought, which makes me think he isn't totally done for:-(

Despite my trimming, the fungus has returned. The red sores seemed to be toned down, but the fungus, wow. Some of it is even this BLUE color! I checked it out under my loop with a flashlight when he comes near the front of the hospital tank. It almost looks like white stringy pieces coming out of the blue! The other fungus is more white in color. Oh my gawd I hope he pulls through. I spent a beautiful sunny Arizona day beside him, watching his every move and looking stuff up on Google. I am so tired, and so restless!

Anyway, I took a couple of pics.

More can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=10150544479610291&id=822675290&aid=642211&l=4e466102ef



Here are the newest ones:
Earlier today. So very sad:-(










See the little blue part with the rippled black edge? This is actually fungus, though it doesn't look like it here! You can see the white stuff at the bottom where the tank starts to round out....I know, hard to see....










I think the red is calming down a bit. You can see the white fungus here, kinda. It looks a lot worse in real life. Notice how you can barely see the blue stuff. Ugh.










My poor clamped baby. I feel so horrible:-(










Any thoughts on what this looks like? 
I can't believe this fungus is growing with the meds like this. I hope it's the whole 'it gets worse before it gets better' thing:-(


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

A sad updated.


No answers to what this could be from multiple forums. It's a mystery. Last night the redness started to go away, so we were a bit hopeful. I noticed his gills extended a lot, trying to breathe. I was worried it was the medication, but we even under dosed him.

This morning we wake up, and he's taken a turn for the worst. On his side, completely paralized it seems. Still has his little side fins fluttering away, still full of fight. The blue fungus/mold has taken over, now the coloring going up his dorsal. More fungus on the tail. Even with all the strong anti-fungus meds! 

We changed him over to non medicated, clean, salted water and I added a whole lot of Betta Spa (IAL). Just to sooth. I cannot believe this but my hubby is on the floor, beside his bin, devastated, talking to Plato. I feel so bad, I knew Plato was his favorite, I've been up for two nights trying to save him, Googling stuff. I am so very very tired....and so very very sad. All these tears over a fish....if that's any indication of how awesome this little guy was.

We're staying with him 'til the end. It won't be long now. I just want to give breeding now, he was at the top of my breeding plans anyway. And now, he's as good as gone. I am beside myself....


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm sorry  I wish I could help. It's gotta be something underlying besides just the redness on his fins.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Poor fella.....dissolve 2tsp/gal of Epsom salt in spring water and Betta spa and add him to that (same temp as the water he is in)

How old is he.....


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## StarSpun (Oct 19, 2010)

Oldfishlady said:


> Poor fella.....dissolve 2tsp/gal of Epsom salt in spring water and Betta spa and add him to that (same temp as the water he is in)
> 
> How old is he.....




I guess I did something right in the end....because that is exactly what I did. We sat by him and waited until he passed, and we both cried. He kept fluttering those little side fins 'till the very end. 

I just cannot believe he is gone. I thought I could save him. I keep going through the motions, wondering what I did wrong. Maybe I killed him with the meds, but last night his red sores were fading, I thought it was working.

Then again if I hadn't of done the meds and he died, I would have been saying, why didn't do the meds?! Either way I feel like it's all my fault:-( I will always feel like it's my fault!

:-(


He was very young. I got him from Aquabid, sometime around January. I really wanted to breed him, he was what I was going to base my whole line on. I have his sister but it doesn't feel like the same thing. I am so worried about her, I have to have a chance to breed her so I can at least have some of him left behind....but I have to wait until I am in Canada. If anything happens to her, I give up. I feel like giving up now even....ugh....


Thank you everyone for your concerns and advice. I appreciate everything....


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm so sorry Catherine  I know how it feels to fight so hard and loose such a special fish.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry for your loss.....don't give up........it can be frustrating working with fish.....and you didn't do anything wrong.....they can be fine one day and dead the next and you may never figure out what happened....it just happens.......sometimes it doesn't matter if use or don't use medications...it won't change the out come sometimes.....all you can do is the best you can....and you did that.......

I wish I could have been more help.....but these things happen....sorry for your loss......spawn his sister and get that line going...soon you will have one just like him.......


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## sahuoy (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm so sorry Plato has passed. Feel confident knowing you did spot the problem and tried which is the best any of us can do other than getting lucky. Fish ailments are a hodge podge when treating one symptom let alone multiple symptoms. It happens to all of us. It's a sad part of keeping fish. Keep what you've learned, plan ahead and continue on with your program, better days are coming.


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm so sorry, I was reading the whole thing, hoping he'd make it.  Sorry for your loss. 

Edit: The K stuff was probably Kanamycin? It's an antiboitic.


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## monroe0704 (Nov 17, 2010)

It's so sad  I remember when you first got him... I also know how it feels; I still get very distraught when I think about Helios' passing. 

Plato will always be in your thoughts. Get a line going with his sis in memory of him! Maybe name that line after him too!


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