# Is it really that bad?



## betta33 (Dec 11, 2017)

Im looking to breed my male dumbo halfmoon, i bought him at petsmart but he is perfectly healthy and still very young. I have been on the hunt for a nice female but is it really that bad to breed a petstore betta? the female i will be getting from an aquarium store thats near me, so probably a lot better quality than a chain petstore betta. Im not too concerned about them coming out super "pretty" i just want to get the hang of breeding really, before i start with really good quality bettas.


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## free2battle1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Well before you do think of breeding them, some pictures of both fish would be helpful preferably when they're flaring. I haven't personally breed bettas myself yet but from I gathered these are most of the reasons as to why some are against it. For your question you kind of indirectly answered it ... it's all about quality. Most pet store bettas are just pet-quality and not what most betta enthusiasts would considered breeding quality. Some may have a chance of being show worthy though. Some people refer to them as mutts only because you won't know what genes your pet store betta carries, similar to a mixed breed dog from a pound, hence the word mutt. But then again IMO, it's the same for bettas that people ordered from overseas. Let me ask you a question. When you bought your male dumbo halfmoon, did you go "Wow look at this guy's color" or "Wow this guy have really good form and finnages." This leads to another reason as to why some people are against breeding pet store bettas. Most people who have been in the betta scene for a long time, breed to perfect their own lines be it color, forms and fins, or both altogether. They want the best of the best and most pet store bettas just simply don't have these qualities that they are looking for. Breeding bettas is also hard work, you'll need to devote lots of time, patience, and money which most people just don't want to if they're just pet store bettas. There are also sticky post for breeding if want to have a go at it. It's good having experience too because by then you'll know what to look for and what you want. This is just for myself and not anyone else but what I like to think is that it's my time and money. It's not like I'm wasting other peoples' time or money I'm doing this so I know what to expect later on. Basically what I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, it's your choice your decision. Hopefully that doesn't sound too harsh for my ending


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## blackbirds (Oct 4, 2017)

I would agree with that answer- the quality and health of most pet store bettas is generally a little iffy, and most successful breeders have some sort of goal in mind with their breeding program.

I'd also add that if you want the fry to reach adulthood, there's probably going to be significant investment in terms of time for upkeep as well as individual housing for them once they reach a certain age, (you could end up with thirty babies, you could end up with three hundred, either way that's a lot of little jars to keep clean, lol) and also the consideration of what to do with them. A lot of people know they can get a betta for three or four dollars at most pet stores, so you might not make back a lot of that money initially.

I would say definitely do some reading and research, figure out what goal you want to achieve if you do start breeding bettas, and then make your next purchase with that goal in mind.


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

What you don't want to breed are the more common VT and DeT because they were probably mass bred - mainly for color - disregarding genetics. 

Yes, all pet store bettas are probably "rejects" and "overstock". In fiact, all bettas for sale are. Bettas you see on aquabid are the same. The key is knowing what to look for,, whether form or color. Those bred by responsible breeders can produce nice forms - SDeT can produce one or two nice HM if you know how to pair them.

The disadvantage of pet store fish is not knowing its genetic background - if you are attempting to create something specific. But if you merely want general form and color, this won't matter too much.

Set a specific goal and we'll try to point you in the right direction.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

The above advice is correct, but I want to add something--

No, breeding petstore Bettas is not the most ethical thing to do. As blackbirds said; the genetics of these fish are iffy. If you're going to breed these fish, you should only have one goal in mind: to better the species as a whole in some way. Wether that's by creating a line of EEHMs with better-known genetics (no known deformities in the history of the parents/grandparents/etc.) or HMPKs with better fin shape, you should NEVER breed fish with bad fin shape or known deformities. There's already enough fish with crooked spines, missing fins, or overall qualities that should be culled and/or kept ONLY as pets. Some petstore fish have deformities that don't hinder the quality of life (QOL) of the fish, but it definitely doesn't better the species or make them more eye-appealing/show worthy. People complain about the mass production and abuse of Bettas; it could be stopped if people had better morals and a better sense of what ethical breeding is. There are too many sad VTs in little cups; I should know, because I bought one of them. He's become the most beautiful, deep-red VT that I know. Does he have good fin shape? No. Will I ever breed him because of his color? No. Is he a great pet that will hopefully live a long life? Yes.

Just something to think about before you breed.


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## betta33 (Dec 11, 2017)

Thanks for the responses everyone!

I am going to an aquarium store (hopefully today) because they are getting a whole bunch of new bettas today. Im hoping that they are all from the same breeder and may be siblings. Im only going to get very healthy looking ones (of course) that have the best form. Im hoping they will have a female that isnt just a vt, i feel like most stores that sell females just sell vt girls i guess cause its cheaper and not many people want girl bettas. When I went a few days ago they had some super pretty koi bettas  I will update if I find a good looking pair! (im also hoping these guys come from a place a bit better than chain pet store bettas, im def gonna ask where they get em from)

I know its a looot of work, but Ive been slowly getting things I need and doing a looot of research. 
I recommend checking your local thrift store for tanks! So many people just dump them off at a thrift store, I got a 10gal yesterday for $40 (canadian) there was a bunch of random stuff in it, like gravel decorations and food which im obviously not using but the tank was in perfect condition!!


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## trahana (Dec 28, 2015)

betta33 said:


> Im looking to breed my male dumbo halfmoon, i bought him at petsmart but he is perfectly healthy and still very young. I have been on the hunt for a nice female but is it really that bad to breed a petstore betta? the female i will be getting from an aquarium store thats near me, so probably a lot better quality than a chain petstore betta. Im not too concerned about them coming out super "pretty" i just want to get the hang of breeding really, before i start with really good quality bettas.


My concern is that breeding non-pretty bettas is it will be very hard on the bettas! As someone here said, you can have 1-1000 baby bettas, which means you need to have homes for all those bettas.


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## Tardigrade (Apr 17, 2017)

I would say it is a good starting point. Especially there is not a huge selection in canada.
Not ignoring what others have said. It is time consuming and costly. I did a pet store spawn and only 2 ended up making it. They are beautiful though. 

The next spawn I did for a different pair and it was largely a failure as well. That could very well happen and that is often more upsetting than having too many because you feel like all the time was wasted. 

I did get some females to spawn for my project.

Newly hatched brine shrimp is not cheap! 

I would ask even pet stores if they know any local breeders. You might be surprised. I found out through a pet store of a local breeder. 
Have fun!


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## OddBettaFish (Mar 1, 2016)

I would not breed petstore bettas, if you are up for breeding, try to find a local professional breeder around.
First, are you willing to breed? Here are some questions.

1 - Are you willing to pay the prices?
2 - Do you have lots of spare time?
3 - Do you have enough space?

Breeding bettas has a LOT of work to put in to it.
Each spawning, they have about 100-300 fry.

You need to be sure you have a LFS you can give the raised bettas to.
If your doing this for fun, and for making money, breeding is not for you.

You need lots of tubs, tanks, and lots of space for all the fry.
You can have the fry together, until they develop a aggressiveness.

Lots, and lots of heaters, filters, and lots of special food.
The food itself costs a lot to get the things that they need.

If you are a beginner, I would highly not recommend betta breeding.
Its hard, and requires a lot of money.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My thoughts are just because a fish comes from a breeder, doesn't automatically make it of superior quality to a pet store fish. Anyone can call themselves a breeder, it doesn't mean they have high standards (or sometimes any standards at all). At least in pet stores here in Australia, I have seen fish that while not show quality, are certainly breeding quality so I don't think it's fair to say that breeding pet store fish is inherently bad. 

Every fish has their faults. What you need to do (as Indjo has already stated) is develop your eye. Learn what to look for, and what to avoid. It seems that some faults are easier to breed away from than others. I'm not into showing, but to me, a well-conformed betta should give a sense of overall balance. Do some reading on the standards for each tail type, as you cannot produce quality if you don't know what quality is. You have to learn to assess your breeding stock objectively. We call it kennel blindness in dogs, which is where a breeder cannot (or refuses to) see the faults in their animals. This is fine if the dog is destined to be a pet, but breeding stock should be held to a higher standard. 

Yes, the genetic history of the fish is unknown when it comes to purchasing pet store fish and you may be surprised by what appears in the first generation. But unless you purchase from a local breeder who is willing to talk about their fish, how many of you have been provided with a comprehensive history of the fish you've bought, especially those imported from overseas breeders? The genetic background of these fish is just as unknown. I doubt a breeder is going to disclose that they had to cull almost the entire spawn due to deformities when they are trying to sell you a fish. 

It's good that you are doing your research. Far too many people fail in this hobby because they get impatient and rush in and make avoidable mistakes. Remember that there's no such thing as being too prepared. Don't underestimate not only the cost, but the time involved in raising bettas. Far too many people start off all eager, and then the grinding reality of months of daily or near daily water changes sets in, and their interest wanes, and then later they wonder why their fish have grown so slowly or have poor finnage. 

It's bloody hard work, but it's also incredibly rewarding to be a breeder. I don't think I could keep fish now, and not be breeding at least something.


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## RickyTan (Jan 26, 2017)

Yep, I breed pet shop bettas from time to time, all bettas come from "breeders" if you think about it. The copper line ive been breeding for 5 generations now started off with a 7$ copper female and a 15$ salamander EE. They are some of my best looking fish now, it just takes heavy culling and selecting good breeders every generation. Even when you're breeding top quality fish, I'd say only about 10-20% percent of the spawn can be considered good quality. Sometimes you even get no "show" quality fish bred from show fish.


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