# koi hmpk x koi hmpk



## aaronpham

Goal:Gain experience in the breeding world while creating more koi colored bettas (LOVE THEM!)
Conditioned for 2 weeks with unlimited black worms (people told me they would eat themselves to death but they rationed the worms pretty well..), 4 blood worms in the morning and 3 mysis shrimp at night.
Spawn tank set up: Half filed 10 gallon with aged koi pond water, and java moss added. Foods for fry:Starting them on VE, then bbs and at 5-6 weeks on beef heart.
Spawn tank set up with a cycled sponge filter 3/9/2015
Male added to tank at 7pm 3/10/15 Female added at 11 pm 3/10/15
Pair started spawning 3/11/15 @ 2pm, ended at 5pm
PICTURES of the spawning!


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## BlueInkFish

Subbing! What a beautiful pair!


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## aaronpham

One nice thing about this spawn is that spawned really fast, so the female literally had 0 nipped fins or damage once they were done.


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## Nimble

Damn you. You get a spawn within a day, meanwhile I have a suicidal female jumping out of her cup to get beat up by the male because she doesn't want to breed. Grr..


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## BlueInkFish

Wow. Your male and female seem to wrap thing up fast (see what I did there? "Wrap,")

Haha, but srsly... That quick is impossible for me... My fish like to take it slow and easy.


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## aaronpham

Haha, yeah I don't know why they spawned so fast (not complaining haha). I went into my fish room and saw the female heading to the nest (I'm thinking shes going to be attacked and shooed off) but nope, they got right to it haha. Now lets hope he'll be a good father for this is their first spawn. He was kind of lazy when picking up eggs, the female had to do most of the picking up, and I think she ate half, and put half in the nest. But now that he's tending he has them all in a little corner, doing well so far. Should I keep lights on 24? The eggs seem to stay floating and don't sink..


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## BlueInkFish

Yeah. Keep them on. You don't want to risk eggs falling out even if they don't seem to be.


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## aaronpham

Yeah, you were right.. About 15 eggs were on the bottom. He seems to be tending good, even moved the eggs across the cup! Haha


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## aaronpham

Is it normal for him to be darting across the tank and coming back to the nest over and over?


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## SiameseFightingArt

Wow they get to things quick. I hope they come out well! Subbing too  Might be interested in buying if the fry come out nice.


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## BlueInkFish

I think it's normal for him to do that... Maybe he's doing that to check the tank area in case of any intruders, he wants his nest to be secured, my male does the same when breeding.


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## aaronpham

He ate a ton of eggs.. Probably weren't fertile since it's their first time.


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## BlueInkFish

Aww. I'm sorry!

Are there any left over eggs still?


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## aaronpham

Yeah. Theres probably about 50 eggs.. Not sure I can't count.. Once tails come I'll post a picture and maybe you guys can estimate..


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## BlueInkFish

Okay! I can't wait! On the brighter side. Smaller spawns are much easier to care for.


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## aaronpham

Tails! Looks like 50-70 fry but I can't count lol.


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## aaronpham

It doesn't look like much but my camera can't pick up the ones chilling in the bubbles.. Neither can my eye unless I shine a light on it


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## aaronpham

My count was totally wrong lol... At least 100+


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## BlueInkFish

Haha. You really never know until their free swimming!!! Seems like everything is coming along great!


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## aaronpham

Free swimming now! I'll take the male out tomorrow morning.. Now that they're free swimming.. I can barely see any... Numbers look like 30.. But I'm pretty sure there is much more.. Unless papa ate em and I don't think he did, he's getting a little skinny haha.


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## Bailmint

Ahhh I wish it was this easy! Half my male's tail was eaten by the female and I've been trying foreverrr. My female's too aggressive.

Subbing cause wooow


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## aaronpham

Bailmint said:


> Ahhh I wish it was this easy! Half my male's tail was eaten by the female and I've been trying foreverrr. My female's too aggressive.
> 
> Subbing cause wooow


You probably would need a more agressive male or different female.. Yeah my fish were super easy and I'm glad for that....I heard alot of stories about long tails where the female would mess with the male , run up to him nip and swim away, he cant keep up with her speed lol.

ANyways, they're free swimming now! ON infusoria and VE twice a day. (started today LOL)


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## aaronpham

Fry are a couple days old and had their first taste of bbs! I recounted super roughly, and there is 120+! So far I have been feeding a mix of VE and bbs. Also been dripping about 1.5l of water into the tank daily, will start to siphon at 1 week old.


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## aaronpham

Updats: found a dead fry today, and because of that I watched the tank very closely, about 5 of them probably will need to be culled (can't swim properly, it's like they still have their yolk sacs) other than that, the fry are doing good and are healthy!


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## SiameseFightingArt

glad to know the little ones are still healthy!


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## MyBettaEsther

I read your spawn log today and I hope it turns out well! You are going to have some beautiful fish!


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## aaronpham

Update: Fries are doing well however father is not.... His lips are white and he's super pale... anyone have any idea what's going on?


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## SiameseFightingArt

He's probably depressed


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## BlueInkFish

Sounds like stress. Is he in with the fry still? Or on his own?


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## aaronpham

SiameseFightingArt said:


> He's probably depressed


nope. not depressed. something was wrong with his lips.. he had to almost jump out of the water to breathe... he's passed now sadly.


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## LittleBettaFish

Sorry to hear about your male's passing. I wonder if it wasn't something like columnaris that infected the mouth area as I know this disease is capable of causing death very quickly, and perhaps he was vulnerable because of the stress of spawning/raising the fry. 

Hopefully you get a nice son from this spawn.


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## aaronpham

LittleBettaFish said:


> Sorry to hear about your male's passing. I wonder if it wasn't something like columnaris that infected the mouth area as I know this disease is capable of causing death very quickly, and perhaps he was vulnerable because of the stress of spawning/raising the fry.
> 
> Hopefully you get a nice son from this spawn.


I think it was something like that... He literally went from being fine to dead within a day... Heres the timeline of his death.. 
9 am Fed him, very active and going good, then left to go to work.
4 pm, see him very pale and white lips, laying on a leaf for support but still has strength
8 pm, can't hold himself up normally anymore, would flip upside down and not move until he needs a breath
10 pm, i lowered the water for him alot, but even then he had to like jump out to breath, I tried to treat him but it was way to late I guess. ~Sleep~
5am I wake up to his dead body.

EDIT: Today, my fry didn't get any bbs. For some reason this batch didn't hatch in 24h, maybe the room was too cold or something. Just fed them some micros and a very small amount of VE (they haven't started climbing thru the floss yet.)


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## SiameseFightingArt

oh no! I'm so sorry about your boy.  Columnaris has been spreading around the forums huh?


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## aaronpham

Update: found about 3 dead fry this morning, so death count is at 5. This is probably nothing wrong with water or anything just fish who failed to thrive. Doing well on bbs. Trying to get these hatchings right.. Hatched wayy to much this time around..


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## alysalouise

any updated fry photos?
sorry about the passing of the dad!
hows mom doing?


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## Bailmint

Now that I really think about it, your male must have had columnaris. White lips and the fact that it killed him in a matter of days is definitely columnaris. Sorry for your loss :c


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## Sadist

I'm sorry about the male's passing. Some things hit them super fast like that. I'm glad the fry are okay!


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## aaronpham

Here's a fry picture... So hard to take.


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## Sadist

Hehe, little dots with tails!


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## aaronpham

Darn.. underestimated how much bbs I hatched and fed the left overs to my guppies... then went to harvest and there were barely any! Good thing I have micros and VE... lol


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## LittleBettaFish

It is such a fine balancing act getting the right amount of BBS hatched. I only ever have small spawns with my wild bettas and I find it very difficult to hatch enough to feed them, but not have a large amount of BBS left over.


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## Aluka

I know people do double hatching, but i always just hatch once a day. I use a toothpick to measure, i wet the toothpick in the bubbler, and then dip it into the BBS eggs. I start with 3 and add or subtract depending. I let them bubble for about 24 hrs, and harvest everything. I feed as much as needed and put the rest into a tubberware with about 1/2 inch of the water they hatched in and then put it in the fridge. I take them out and feed again every 2 hrs if i am home.


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## aaronpham

Big size difference now... And I'm starting todo water changes. Getting a bit discouraged since I see some fry with only bbs eggs in there bellies.. Y U EAT THAT!


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## aaronpham

Pictures!


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## BettaBoy51

they look good! great job so far!


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## aaronpham

BettaBoy51 said:


> they look good! great job so far!


Thanks! Good luck on your next spawn! Hopefully the male doesn't eat any!


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## BettaBoy51

yeah lol my next ones gonna be my SB HMPK and blue orchid butterflys HMs (you can see the blue male in my avatar pic) and when your babies are big enough i may just have to get some from you lol


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## aaronpham

Had a mini die off of 10 but since then no more dead bodies and everything has stablixed


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## aaronpham

Pictures


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## Sadist

It looks like the biggest survived!


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## aaronpham

Wow. Today I went to feed them (just a little bit hoping the runts could catch up) then found a fry with another in his mouth.... Smh. Also noticed 4-5 with sbd! Darn! One thing I find REALLY cool is some snails eggs hitched in and now they have been growing.. Pretty cool to see them grow with the fry!


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## aaronpham

Looks like all the runts have been wiped out. Runts as in they were barely bigger than newborn bettas... no idea how they lived this long. Saw two floating, but still alive (injured by something) I'm asuming a sibling tried to eat em but couldn't swallow him then spit him out. Oh well. Also ich is in the tank, being treated as we speak with low dosage AQ salt and 86 degree water.


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## Sadist

I guess the runs couldn't figure out how to eat anything besides their egg yolks. I hope the ich clears up quickly!


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## aaronpham

Sadist said:


> I guess the runs couldn't figure out how to eat anything besides their egg yolks. I hope the ich clears up quickly!


They were on a diet. One infursoria a day! Haha.


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## aaronpham

Some long range pictures haha.


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## aaronpham

Water looks a little low, just did a mini water change


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## aaronpham

Ugh! So annoyed. Set up a lamp to hatch my bbs a little faster, and the lamp fell over and the bbs got all over the ground... Good thing I have microworms...


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## BlueInkFish

Gah. That must suck, same thing similar happend with me but with VE... I saved the culture at least.


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## LittleBettaFish

Haha the other night I was siphoning out the small amount of BBS I hatched into a container on the floor. Or at least I thought I was. Turns out I was simply siphoning it out onto the carpet. 

Has the what you thought was the ich, cleared up on them?


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## aaronpham

litelboyblu said:


> Gah. That must suck, same thing similar happend with me but with VE... I saved the culture at least.


Oh god.. VE must suck.. That vinegar!!! Haha. What do you do with your ve now that your fry are bigger? I statted up like 10 cultures.. No idea what todo with them now.


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## aaronpham

LittleBettaFish said:


> Haha the other night I was siphoning out the small amount of BBS I hatched into a container on the floor. Or at least I thought I was. Turns out I was simply siphoning it out onto the carpet.
> 
> Has the what you thought was the ich, cleared up on them?


I'm enjoying hatching decap bbs much better, just the process is a bit annoying. I might do a batch for the month or something.... Hatching them with shells it's nearly impossible to separate the shells from the bbs.... And there's always like one fry who only eats a ton of them!!!

Oh yeah! Forgot about that update! Yeah, whatever it was has cleared up! However I'm going to keep the temperature high for a couple more days for good measure. I lost 1 fry, not sure if it was because of ich or what. Still have tons left!


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## LittleBettaFish

That's good news. It's always nerve-wracking when you have to treat very young fish.


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## BlueInkFish

aaronpham said:


> Oh god.. VE must suck.. That vinegar!!! Haha. What do you do with your ve now that your fry are bigger? I statted up like 10 cultures.. No idea what todo with them now.


Yea. Luckily the stench from the vinegar hasn't remained. With the VE, I try to propagate the first vase to another and throw the old one away, I try to keep a culture of various sorts as I have small fish which feed on the nematodes and for future spawns.


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## aaronpham

For some reason my biggest fry died! No idea. So weird. However my second bigger one has a redish color to it! Exciting


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## SiameseFightingArt

photos?


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## aaronpham

Can't get any clear photos. Boring stuff. 40% daily water changes and every other day vaccum bottom. Ya da yada yada


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## aaronpham

Pictures!


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## aaronpham

One of the biggest. I keep finding dead runts.. But no idea what's wrong. They look active and everything, also the bigger snails died (pond snails) , what can this indicate? I'm thinking maybe the larger fry keep picking on them or soemthing.


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## greycup

A lot of my pond snails got eaten too. I see the fry swarming around to eat the meaty bits. They've also found out the eggs are edible as well.


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## aaronpham

What a shame. My biggest one ate another fry choked and died.


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## BlueInkFish

Oh no! I'm sorry


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## aaronpham

Separated some of the bigger fry out, don't want anymore of those situations. Been doing 50% water changes daily and dripping it back in, introduced beef heart however it is not really liked so far, I'll wait til they get bigger.


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## aaronpham

Largest one with some siblings.. Pretty weird how koixkoi can give this drab color, and how this one grew soo fast!


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## aaronpham

..


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## Alaura123

Oh my goodness thats big, all the other fry are all so small compared it xD
They are looking very well though


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## AukWord

aaronpham said:


> ..


Wait...this fry is the same age/from the same spawn as the others in the picture?!


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## BlueInkFish

lol, that's histeraclly cute.


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## aaronpham

AukWord said:


> Wait...this fry is the same age/from the same spawn as the others in the picture?!


Same age. Shows how much a bigger tank+live plants can do. I just added one fry to my 75 gal planted to see how he would do. Grew so fast.


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## jarabas

Wow--that is dramatic.


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## nakito

did he steal all the foods for himself?


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## FishMemory

How are the frys now ?


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## aaronpham

Good, but sadly no koi fry. Only pure white or wild looking colors.


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## SiameseFightingArt

Photos of the wild looking colors?  I might buy a female from you if you start selling.


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## themamaj

How old are your fry now?


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## Ganggreenkhan

aaronpham said:


> Updats: found a dead fry today, and because of that I watched the tank very closely, about 5 of them probably will need to be culled (can't swim properly, it's like they still have their yolk sacs) other than that, the fry are doing good and are healthy!


That's what happens to them when they eat a brine shrimp egg casing.


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