# What is this white spot on Sawyer's side!?



## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

A few days ago, I noticed that Sawyer was a bit bloated. I thought it was because I fed him too much, but I floated him in a cup to separate him from the other 2 males in the divided tank just in case something else was wrong. There's a video in this thread... http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=113608

The bloating is obviously down, and he pooped a good amount 2 days ago but nothing since. I haven't fed him since the day the thread was posted. He has gotten a little bit back to old self, but not compeltely.. maybe because he's in a cup. He's just not _as_ interested in things as he used to be. I don't have a qt tank, so that's why he's in the cup. I do daily 100% water changes in the cup. Today I was going to put him back in the tank since he seemed to be better, until I noticed this white lump. I've seen a betta with cottonmouth, and this is kinda what the white lump reminds me of. So what is this, and will he be okay!? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgwfWSldjX4

Also, I think I saw him shredding his slime coat today?


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## Sapphoira (Jul 16, 2012)

Hard to tell, but it looks like pics I've seen of Lymphocystis - does it look textured, like cauliflower?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Um, yea... It's kinda fuzzy looking...


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

anyone?


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## Sapphoira (Jul 16, 2012)

Well I'm not very well versed in lymphocystis, but that definitely could be what you are dealing with. I've read online that there is no known treatment, and usually it will go away on it's own. Sometimes the growth can impair daily function, such as when it grows over a fin or gills. Some sites say that if that happens, it CAN be removed with a scalpel but it will severely stress the fish out and leave them open to bacterial infections. I would recommend keeping your fish under observation and make sure your water has all the correct params +temp, and if he starts to exhibit other symptoms of unhappiness such as lethargy or clamping you might want to consider treating for a fungal infection. I did read that lympho can often be mistaken for things such as cottonmouth, so I guess keep an eye out for the symptoms of cotton mouth besides the white lump. You might also pm Oldfishlady, as apparently she is the all knowing guru on fish diseases around here


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, thank you! The thing is... I've been dumping his old cup water into the 5 gallon I'm cycling!


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

If its fuzzy...I would start a salt and tannin treatment while in the Qt....float the QT in a heated tank to maintain temp in the 76-77F range for treatment.

Premix the treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add the salt 3tsp/gal and tannin source if you have one. Use this premixed Tx water for 25% water changes every 15min for 1 hour today-this will get him acclimated to the new chemistry and start the treatment.

Tomorrow start 50% daily water changes with the premixed Tx water.

He needs to stay in the QT in the Tx water for the duration of the treatment period of 10 days.
If you added a tannin source-the water should look darker every day and this is what you want.

If you have access to mosquito larva-offer several rinsed a couple of times a day, otherwise, feed good quality varied diet in small frequent meals...


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Well I kinda hate to say it's fuzzy... It's hard to get a good look at, but it looks like it popped right out of his body. 

I've got a new tank that I'm going to use for qt, and it's between 1 and 2 gallons. Can I put him in that?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Here a some pics, but I can't get any to show any texture. Sorry if they're too big.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

I'm _really_ sorry to post again, but if I need to put him in a bigger qt, then I need to be doing it soon. I have a tank similar to this one, but not sure one the exact amount of water it holds. If I should put him here, would it be better for him at this point to have the airstone/filter running, or not?http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hawkeye-2-Hexagon-Shaped-Aquarium-1.6-Gallon-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/14660256


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Acouple of the photos look like its fuzzy and growing on the outside of the scales and not clumpy and growing from under the scales.


Here are acouple photos of my boy with Lymphocystis, it's kinda clumpy and hard looking, like it's solid and grows from under the scales. Does it look like this or is Sawyer's more fuzzy looking?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

It's about that size, and looks like the last pic of your boy. It doesn't look as rounded and as uniformed as the way it does in your second pic. Sawyer's does look.. to me... like it's coming from under the scales. I think I could even see some scales sticking up around it as if they were forced away from the growth. 

Just took another look, and the fuzzy parts look kinda flakey. Whatever it is, it hasn't affected him in any other way so far. He acts normal. I plan to move him into the new tank tonight.

Beautiful boy BTW!


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Thank you  he's currently in his monthly week long aquarium salt treatment. 

If it is Lymphocystis then it's very much so survivable so long as it doesn't get huge and give him any problems moving or eating. I really don't recall if it's contagious but I gave Castiel his own net, for just in case. He's got his own net apart from everyone else's and my 'sick fish' net, i don't think it's necessary to take that far of a level of precaution but, i'm paranoid i guess lol.

I would put him in a qt with aquarium salt (1tsp per gallon) and do daily water changes. If it looks fuzzy then there may be some columnaris growing on it. When I first bought Castiel he had columnaris growing near it and on acouple other parts of his body. I did the aqs treatment first for a week then treated him with API fungus cure. You could probably use API T.C. Tetracycline instead, I don't have any history with that product though.

This Fungus Cure will turn your water green though, so you know. I added part of a packet, just sprinkled a little in, and did this every other day for a week and then gave him fresh water. His fuzziness was gone but i did 5 days of aqs after to make sure. 

During this time part of his Lymph had crumbled off, but not a whole lot. When I took him out and changed his water again after all of this even more of it came off, but it like, disintegrated onto the net. Again, not all of it but quite a bit this time.

Now every month I do 1 week of aqs treatment to help keep it from getting any bigger and so far it's worked out quite well.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

I'm just worried that it's _not_ lymphocystis and it's something else that I don't know about. I'm looked up lympho on here and have seen a lot of pics of bettas with spots very similar to Sawyer's. Some look like your Castiel (rounded and hard) and some look flaky/fuzzy like Sawyer's. All the comments say to just google lympho to see if it looks the same. They never offer any fungus name or anything. I don't have any fungus meds right now anyways.

So this qt tank I have (I believe you recommended it?) it is 1.5 gallons with the undergravel filter/airstone thing. Do I need that right now? Should I start him with aq salt tonight? How do I acclimate him from his cup to the medicated tank?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

That's okay if you don't have any medication right now. It's usually best to start off with AQS and go from there. You can go ahead and start tonight, i don't think there's much of a reason not to. You won't need the under gravel filter or the air stone since there won't be any gravel to be added & you'll be doing daily water changes.

Rinse the tank out and add lukewarm water, add 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt (almost said sugar lol) and let the salt dissolve & add your water conditioner. Let the water cool down to room temperature, it may take awhile. You can use cooler water if you wish, the warm water is just so the salt dissolves nicely.

If Sawyer is in his cup and not sitting in another tank you won't need to worry about acclimating him since the water temperature should be close to the same. You can either pour some of his water out of his cup (down the drain, just make sure you don't dump him out too) and lower the side of the cup into his QT and let him swim out or you can net him and place him into his tank. I do both ways. If you use a net then go rinse it off with hot tap water & it should be fine.

Make sure you place some kind of little plant (silk or soft plastic preferably) in the tank so that he doesn't get too stressed out or anything and feel exposed.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Okay, I have the water in a jug with the salt dissolving. The tank is in place and ready for the water. Sawyer is currently floating in the 10 gallon, but I was worried about acclimating him to the salt water. Do I need to?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

No, you don't need to acclimate him to this water. He should do fine. He shouldn't really notice much of a difference, none of mine really do. He'll be okay


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Well I decided not to start his treatment last night as I didn't have time to do it carefully and keep and eye on him for a little while. I felt safer waiting until today. So the salt water sat over night (conditioned) in a jug. Is it still alright to use? The tank he is floating in is not currently heated, and is room temperature (between 76-80). So I can just put him in? Also, the tank hold 1.5 gallons, but I should only do 1 gallon right?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

1.5 is totally fine, we like using 1 gallon as a base, a little over won't hurt. It's mainly so that it's easier on the owner to change the water every day & because the recipe is 1tsp per every 1 US gallon. 

The water is totally safe to use, the main reason you want to change it daily is so the water stays clean, no ammonia or poo or anything like that. 

Fill the tank up but leave about an inch or two from the top of the tank, as you would in any other tank. 

Go ahead and just put him in.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Yea it does seem a lot easier to just fix up 1 gallon and not have to worry about dosing the extra. 

Thank you so much for helping me help Sawyer!


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Absolutely! The people here on this forum have helped me quite a few times with problems with my Bettas and I know I would have lost them if it weren't for the help. They have taught me a lot and I love helping out anyone I can with what I do know.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Oh I know, I'm so thankful for all of the wise people here!

Here he is in his qt tank. He's such a trooper... never stresses over anything. It took less that 1 minute to figure out what happened, and he was at the glass looking at me!

Do I feed him his normal amount of pellets? I don't have any live or frozen food.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Yes, you can feed him the same amount of pellets. If you have any frozen glass worms or brine shrimp that would be best as frozen or live foods are much more nutritious and can help any fish who is ill recover faster. But if you don't then that's totally fine.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Update: A lot has changed... sometime last night i noticed that the white lump was much smaller... Then this morning I turn his light on and see this brown thing hanging from him like worm! So... what is this? I'm so sorry about the quality of my pictures lol. 










Here's a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH-ubgjfpRI


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Keep up with the AQS treatment, it looks like it's a parasite. The AQS should kill it off.



edit:// 

I'm glad the lump looks smaller btw.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Well, how interesting! And so a new chapter begins lol!!


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

lol.

How do your other fish look? This guy was in a divided tank, correct?


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Yes he was in with 2 other males. They look and act fine as far as I can tell. If anything, they might be thin, but I'm not a good judge of that. They swim around all day anyways. Will they likely get worms too? I did see a good brown curly poop from one of them today. 

Sawyer definitely has another one coming out of him.  But he acts fine as well. At least it hasn't affected him in that way.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

There's a chance they may, so keep an eye on them.

Does the one poop you found in with your other boys look like the classic 'dog poop' image? lol.. I've had acouple of my boys do something that looked like that, which i think is normal.

Here's a link to another site with a thread about that: 
http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=25272

As for acouple more showing up, they may be popping out because the salt is bothering them. If they are still there after his treatment then you can get him some Maracide and treat him with that. It's liquid and is for any external parasites and is awesome.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Sawyer will be able to go back in the tank with the other 2 right? As far as I know, there's only been 2. I'll have to look tonight at how the wound is.

Here's what the middle fish's poop looked like. Same color as the food lol.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Here are acouple links on Lymph 

http://www.squidoo.com/diagnosis-and-treatment-of-betta-lymphocystis

http://www.petplace.com/fish/lymphocystis-disease/page1.aspx


Keep an eye on him and see to make sure if it is Lymph. If it for sure is then I don't think it's a good idea to put him back in with the other two. There is a chance the other guys might not have any problems with it at all but there's also a chance that they could. :\


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Oops, here's the picture.









Thanks for the links, I will definitely keep an eye on him. I got him about 9 months ago, and the other 2 I've had for 2-3 months. None of them have ever had anything like this, so more than likely it won't be lymph. I remember the first I thought when I saw the lump on Sawyer was that it looked like an abscess... and that's kinda what happened.

So then would the worms be in the tank? Will I just have to treat which ever fish gets them? Or would I have to break the tank down and clean everything?


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Have you done any type of substantial water change since Sawyer has been removed from the tank? If so you should be okay, just keep an eye on everyone to make sure, maybe do acouple more smaller water changes in between the ones you normally do just for right now. If no one else seems to be having any problems then you should be fine..

And that poop looks okay, i get some like that in my tanks as well.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Sawyer was originally removed on the 7th, and I did a 50% change on the 10th. I think the week before that, I did do a few small water changes because the other 2 males had gotten in a fight and I wanted to keep the water a bit cleaner. So who knows...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Wow. It definitely did start out looking like a classic case of lympho, didn't it? Did you see the things coming off move at all like they were alive? I'm not sure if pieces of a lymph cyst can come off and look like that or not. 

To be honest, I've not heard of an external parasite that gets that big and would cause a lump like that. There's a small possibility it's an internal parasite that took advantage of a lympho cyst to burrow through the stomach wall but I'd tend to think if he was carrying worms that big he'd be bloated and miserable. 

I'd recommend halting AQ treatment for now and trying him on a medicine with praziquantel. There are a number of good ones out there but they can only be found in aquarium stores. Seachem ParaGuard is a good one or Hikari HealthAid PraziPro. If you can't find either of those, I'd suggest Betta Revive, which fortunately CAN be found at most Petco stores. 

Let me know if you need help with dosing and I'll see if I can help with that. 

In the meanwhile, if he'll eat, keep right on feeding him. If you can, try soaking his food in garlic juice as well as there are some theories that garlic is an antiparasitic.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Well, when it was the white lump, it was in a place that I couldn't confirm that it had the cauliflower texture-look to it. At times it did look fuzzy/flakey. So far he justs seems to have had only 2 come out. I never saw them moveNow there's just the wound/hole where it happened. Before it was the white lump, he was mildly bloated for 2-3 days, and did seem a bit off. He wanted to sit at the bottom of the tank alone. there's a video in this thread. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=113608 Now, he's completely back to normal with his attitude, comes right to the glass, and jumps up for his food.

As for medicines, I do not have a petsmart or petco nearby, so only walmart and LFS that carries off brands. I can look though.


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## TheCheese909 (Aug 11, 2011)

Does PetCo still sell Betta Revive? All 4 of my local PetCo's have discontinued selling it since about December last year :\


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, now Seeley(whose poop is pictured above) has a white/clear, thin, stringy poop hanging from him. It also looks like it has tiny brown spots in it. 

Sawyer's wound (just had a good look at him) is starting to get that fuzzy flakey look again. It almost looks like when you pop a pimple and all of the white stuff doesn't come out.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sometimes with open wounds, they develop a true fungus called saprolegnia. If you can't find any of the other meds I mentioned at one of your LFS, I'd be happy to snap up a bottle of Betta Revive or ParaGuard and ship it to you, lab. 

Starting to think we must be dealing with something internal. If Seeley is still pooing what looks to be parasitic poo, you can go ahead and get him into one of the meds I mentioned as well. Just let me know if you need something shipped to you, I'd be happy to help.


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## labloverl (Feb 12, 2012)

The only parasite med I have found so far is Jungle internal parasite guard. There's more in this thread. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114356 I'm so sorry that I've scattered this everywhere, but I guess I'm hoping someone has seen something similar. There's also an updated video on a third worm.

He's currently in epsom salt since I wasn't sure what to do with the medicine. Good news is that Sawyer feels great! He even flared at a mirror which is something he rarely does. He normally only flares at the other fish. I bought new food as well(omega betta fish pellets) because I've had the other for a several years and it was a generic brand.(fish ingredient was a "meal")


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