# Hillstream Loach/ "Stingray Pleco"



## kitkat67

Hehehehehe. I can't stop thinking how cute my new feeshes are! They're so tiny! And apparently they will stay tiny. I had a couple questions about my new friends: do they eat snail jello? or blanched veggies? do they need very oxygenated water? are they ammonia sensitive?

Also, please feel free to tell me your experiences with these guys. I'll eventually put my own pictures up, but for now here is a stock photo:


----------



## NickAu

> are they ammonia sensitive?


Yes all fish are ammonia sensetive, The only safe level is 0.


> do they need very oxygenated water?


They require fast flowing well oxygenated water, Turnover should ideally be 10-15 times per hour, They should also be kept in groups of 6 or more.


----------



## Zhylis

Err, hillstream loaches are a bit sensitive because of the rapid, cool, oxygenated water that they need. Just FYI, they will slowly suffocate to death in a normal, tropical fish aquarium. I wouldn't do anything shorter than a 20 long with a koralia (or two) and a bubblewand at one end just to push the water around.


----------



## Aqua Aurora

I'd looked into getting these a while back and spoke with an owner who has several on another forum. They need ALOT of flow, aeration. and natural algae. I had planned for us ea 20g long with a aquaclear 70 (meant for a 60g tank put onto a 20g), the owner said I would still need a power head to increase flow even more. 
Hillstream loaches are not really compatible with other species because of the high flow and cold temps they need. But I have seen bamboo shrimp and sometimes white cloud mountain minnows kept with them.
For feeding they don't at man made foods so you need a tank full of algae covered rocks and a bin (o a few) growing more feeder rocks. If its not near/below freezing you can keep these algae rock bins outside in the sun, but this time of year I'd recommend keeping them inside ad using a grow bulb. It can take weeks for a rock to get covered n algae, and less than a day for the loaches to clean it, so you'll need a lot of rocks and be rotating frequently.
I'd strongly advise against buying hillstream loaches from lfs, as the fish will likely already be half dead from improper environment and lack of food.
And on a final note: they are not plecos, but some stupid pet stores (petsmart) like to label them as a pleco... if they can't even get species right, you can't trust them to proper care for the fish either.

here is a good site for info on fish species, links are for 2 hillstream loach species:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/beaufortia-kweichowensis/
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sewellia-lineolata/


----------



## kitkat67

Would a 800 gph power head in a 20 L be too much for these guys?


----------



## kitkat67

Also, how important is it for them to be in a larger group? I have two currently.


----------



## NickAu

> Also, how important is it for them to be in a larger group? I have two currently.


Very important, 



> Would a 800 gph power head in a 20 L be too much for these guys?


A 20 litre tank? thats too small
Here's a link to a loach site it will tell you everything you need. please read it. 
http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-in-the-fast-lane


Mods.
Sorry about the outside link but these fish needs specialised care and the above link covers that.


----------



## kitkat67

I've read a lot of websites last night on hillstream loaches, but thank you. I am going to experiment. And I meant a 20 gallon long tank, not 20 litres.


----------



## NickAu

Ahh 20 long my bad sorry,

If you look at the link I gave you about half way down the page it shows you how to set up the tank so it has lots of water movement.

Would love to see photos of your setup.


----------



## kitkat67

I have my bettas in the 20L so the loaches can move in when they keel over, or when I move back to school and can spread out, bowl-wise...whichever comes first. Right now I am seeing if the loaches can live in a bowl. They are in the same room as the woodstove so their water remains at a steady 70-72 w/out a heater. They have an airstone and pump meant for a 10 gal. They have sand and rocks with algae I collected this morning. They seem much happier than the 20L so far. Fingers crossed!


----------



## kitkat67

The smaller one is rock-grazing, but the larger one only sticks to the wall behind the airstone. I will see about blanching something to see if they will eat it.


----------



## NickAu

> but the larger one only sticks to the wall behind the airstone.


They do that if there is not enough oxygen in the water.


----------



## kitkat67

Here are dorsal and ventral pics of the larger loach. Any idea if male/female? Some say you can tell by head size/shape.


----------



## NickAu

A male.







*
Female on the left*
*Male on the right*

http://www.loaches.com/articles/sew...am-loach-easy-to-spawn-or-a-whole-lot-of-luck


----------



## kitkat67

Then they are both males...that would explain the occasional aggression.


----------



## jadaBlu

I've also read they stay near the airstone if there isn't enough oxgen in the tank in general. I create more oxygen in one of my tanks by putting a spray bar high above the surface so there's a lots of agitation and bubbles. The fish which are river fish really like it. It creates more water movement as well. You could probably find DIY PVC spray bar on youtube. Do you have local fish club in your area? You might get some starter algae rocks from someone and cheap supplies if you post on their forum.


----------



## NickAu

*River-Tank Manifold Design*


> This system is low maintenance, requiring only periodic washing of the intake sponges and cleaning of the pumping chamber of the power-heads to maintain performance.











http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design


----------



## jadaBlu

I like that system too but the poster is keep them in a bowl so finding ways to keep them alive until they can upgrade would be needed. BTW Petco is having $1 per gallon sale now would be a good time to get a 20 long for them


----------



## kitkat67

jadaBlu said:


> I like that system too but the poster is keep them in a bowl so finding ways to keep them alive until they can upgrade would be needed. BTW Petco is having $1 per gallon sale now would be a good time to get a 20 long for them


I have a 20 L, actually, I had them in the bowl with an airstone and filter since they needed the O2 but it was annoying to upkeep, so they are back with the bettas. I've compromised between the two species by lowering the temperature to 70 and adding a stronger air pump for the sponge filter and large air stone. The bettas have adjusted to the stronger water "current" and seem to be okay with the lower temperature. The loaches are happily grazing on my tank walls and since they are pooping like no tomorrow I am going to assume they are happy enough. I have tried offering them frozen blood worms and blanched kale and zucchini but my offerings are found untouched until I take them out a day or two after.

Also, got some algae covered rocks from the stream last week for them and they avoid them so I took them out today.


----------



## NickAu

> I've compromised between the two species by lowering the temperature to 70 and adding a stronger air pump for the sponge filter and large air stone


There is no way you can keep hillstream loaches and a Betta in the same tank their requirements are worlds apart. 
At that temp the Betta will get sick. 
To keep the loaches from slowly suffocating the current in the tank is too strong for the Betta.



> Also, got some algae covered rocks from the stream last week for them and they avoid them so I took them out today.


That is so dangerous because you will end up introducing parasites into your tank.

You need to separate the loaches from the betta and give each species what it requires in regard to current food and heat.


----------



## kitkat67

Ja, I took that risk of parasites, but while I care about them and will deal with any disease accordingly, I am not attached to these fish. This is more of an experiment to see if I want to keep them in the future. As for the bettas and temperature, while not ideal, I have kept other bettas without heaters and they rarely ever got sick until I bought more fish.

I'm not naive about how to keep bettas, but I don't want to keep so many tanks around the house, especially since I am living with my parents still. The loaches could not be returned so instead of euthanizing them I am trying to keep everyone happy and healthy in one tank and so far it's working pretty dang well. If something changes I will look for alternatives.


----------



## NickAu

Speechless, I now bow out of this thread.


----------



## kaliska

Yeah, I decided to not even go there a page back. 

I had a white cloud and hillstream river tank a few years back and I'm either going to use my 30-33 something tank that is fairly long and short or get a 4' tank to setup a new river tank. I was looking for something different than white clouds this time though. More color. I was checking if there were any suitable rainbowfish. The temp might pose too much problem with all the species even if suited to the current. I don't know. It's months out. (which is what you are supposed to do. Research and then setup tank and put researched things in it. )


----------



## jadaBlu

I know you mean well but maybe look up a local aquarium club and see if you can can trade the fish for something else suitable that will go with your bettas or for some equipment, they may even pay for them. It could be a win for you and the fish. Most aquarium club members are passionate about fish and will often have fishrooms with various setups and could handle the fish. If you PM you location I will try to find a local club for you.


----------



## kitkat67

I was interested last year in going to one, we have one up by my school, but the closest thing here at home is a fish-_ing_ association. :/


----------



## jadaBlu

I linked to this list before for someone and it turned out to take the person to a very personal, personal site. So I don't suggest clicking on links to the clubs but maybe google the names separately. 

http://fins.actwin.com/dir/clubs.php?c=1


----------



## kaliska

If you just offer them free if picked up on most any aquarium item site or animal for sale site someone will likely take them to at least put in an aquarium with filtration. They are still at risk in a community aquarium but it's guaranteed they'll die fast in a bowl no matter how much you aerate it. Someone might be able to house them in a community by adding an extra air stone/wand/sponge filter on top of a normal level of filtration. Some like me way over filter everything that doesn't have a fish that needs a restricted water flow. It's not ideal to a full cool water river setup but it's not at least not always a death sentence.


----------



## kitkat67

kaliska said:


> If you just offer them free if picked up on most any aquarium item site or animal for sale site someone will likely take them to at least put in an aquarium with filtration. They are still at risk in a community aquarium but it's guaranteed they'll die fast in a bowl no matter how much you aerate it. Someone might be able to house them in a community by adding an extra air stone/wand/sponge filter on top of a normal level of filtration. Some like me way over filter everything that doesn't have a fish that needs a restricted water flow. It's not ideal to a full cool water river setup but it's not at least not always a death sentence.


I don't think you read all of my replies, but they are out of the bowl and they do have a large air stone.


----------



## kitkat67

*Update*

Just thought I would do a quick update. The loaches seem to be doing great. They eat and poop and eat some more what seems day and night! (Oh my God, the poop! So much poop!) I've been monitoring their growth and the smaller guy grew .2-.3 cm this week!


----------



## jadaBlu

They probably have straight digestive system like plecos which is mostly intestine and little or no stomach. Glad they are doing ok!


----------



## Jenjo

Hi, just saw this. I have a couple of these little guys they have always preferred a bubble wand in their tank, its quite wide and they tend to stay on the side with the fast flowing water


----------



## kitkat67

I've noticed since they've settled in they don't stay near the air stone as much unless if I do a prolonged tank cleaning where the air pump is turned off. Btw, this is my first airstone, was wondering if this is normal: the airstone is large, size of an aluminum soda can, but the bubbles only come out the first cm at the top and on it's side same thing. Is my air pump not strong enough or will the bubbles push their way further down over time? I know they are going the path of least resistance but am curious to know if it's only my airstone doing this.


----------



## jadaBlu

I would expect it would come out the whole thing probably the air pump


----------



## Aqua Aurora

If they are staying on an air stone/bubble wand they are not getting enough oxygen in the tank-these are high oxygenated water inhabiting fish, they're basically slowly suffocating from lack of oxygen and trying to get more by staying right ontop of air stone/wands. They should be all over the tank if water quality and oxygen levels are acceptable.


----------



## jadaBlu

I have read that is the case for these fish. Hopefully in the near future the OP can invest in making the river setup when they move to the new location. PVC is pretty cheap so it's not undoable.


----------



## jadaBlu

It's a shame fish shops are not honest about the needs of these fish. Can you believe my LFS had them labeled as mini-sting rays? "The owner told me they are really carnivorous fish and they can live in a standard tropical aquarium. I had not made a 100% ID of the fish yet but I asked are you sure they don't need high current? No they don't" What's worse is he is endorsed by the local fish club. I called him back after I got home because I was really interested in getting couple. So I ask him for the latin name of the fish. He had to admit there was no latin name and suggested I look under butterfly plecos. Which still was not the right fish.


----------



## kitkat67

They only stay near the airstone after tank cleaning when I have it turned off for an .5-1 hr. The rest of the time, day and night, rasping on tank walls and clay pots.


----------



## jadaBlu

I came across this biope while looking at another on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQ20dtpDVY

I thought you and others might enjoy it


----------



## kitkat67

When I was packing up the tank for school two weeks ago, I had a sneaking suspicion I was missing one of the loaches. I was in a rush packing and shrugged it off. They have a habit of clinging to the mopani wood when I clean the tank so I thought the one was already in the bucket with my wood/anubias. At school I thought the same when I was setting up the tank, not taking too much time looking for the other one. By the second day I knew I had only one loach. The other still had to be at home, there was no other explanation. 

Fast forward to today, I am home this weekend. I found my poor loach. He must have jumped out of the bucket because I found the little guy mummified. I feel terrible knowing he died a slow death. The other loach is as happy as he can be at school. Since they should be kept in groups I am not sure how he will be in the long run but for now he seems normal and healthy.


----------

