# I think my little Frankie is going to die



## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Well, I've read everything I can and done as much as I can, but my little guy just seems like the end may be near. After a water change about week ago, he seemed to have trouble swimming and was sinking to the bottom. I tried fasting him for a few days and was hoping that would do the trick, but it didn't help. I have now lowered the water level in my 10 gallon tank to about 6.5 gallons or so to make it easier for him to get to the top.

Sadly, he's just laying on the bottom on his side and pretty much not even moving. I added some tetracyline treatment today as I noticed some whiteish spots around his face. Honestly, I have changed water, tried moving him to a 1 gallon tank that for 15 minutes both yesterday that had 3 tsp of epsom salt and hoping it was just constipation. I'm probably past the point of being able to save him, but thought I'd post here one last time.

I don't know if he has swim bladder disease or some other ailment, but I wanted to get any thoughts. I'm pretty heart broken to be quite honest and have probably stressed him out as much as helped him, but there is so much info (often conflicting) on the internet. I did try to put some food in there, but he's not interested in food at all. He's a couple years or so old, and to be quite honest, is probably lucky to have lived this long and I really didn't know how to properly care for him. 

I'm finally at the point that I guess I'll just let him rest and not bother him any more. I will continue tomorrow with the tetracyline treatment if he's still alive, but I'm getting close to the point that I really don't want my little buddy suffering and have considered euthanasia, but I don't really have the heart to do it. 

I should also mention that I did a water test today and the levels seemed overall OK. I took it down to my local pet store and the nitrates and nitrites tested normal. I also used the strips, and realize they are not very accurate, but I've gone all out to try to save him.

Any final suggestions or thoughts? *cry*

EDIT: Is it safe to add some epsom salt to his tank? He's the only fish I have in it. If he passes on, I may wait a while before getting another.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

If you can fill out some of the info here it will give a better baseline to help you on.

Housing 
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10 gallon
What temperature is your tank? 78 F
Does your tank have a filter? yes (not on currently)
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? yes but I haven't used it in a while
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? beta pellets and freeze dried blood worms
How often do you feed your betta fish? daily - I think I've overfed him 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? varies .. not enough I don't think
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25-35%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Stress Zyme and have added aquarium salt a couple of times (seems this could be a problem, not sure)

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite: OK 
Nitrate: OK
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Not really
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He moves even less now, just sits at bottom
When did you start noticing the symptoms? A week ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Started by fasting a few days, thought it was constipation. Started tetracyline treatment today
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? 2 years old


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I should say this last thing, where he won't move and hasn't eaten, I really am thinking of putting the poor guy out of his misery soon. I don't want him to suffer


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

Alright. For a 10g 25% once a week is probably more than enough with just a betta.

There aren't really OK amounts of ammonia or nitrite. if it's above 0 then you need to do a water change. 

Can you get a picture of him? 

Epsom salts are good for constipation but if you have added any AQ salt recently you may need to do a 100% water change first. Salts do not evaporate or get removed by filtration. I can't say for sure on the dosage though.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Little guy is behind a plant and I'm going to leave him be for now. By OK amounts, I meant that according to the liquid tests, they levels were safe, but this was after I found some solution that I added in to normalize the levels, so it's possible they were not safe previously. I'm not going to add any salt. I just going to see if the tetracyline helps him out and if not, I may say my goodbyes. I appreciate the advice though, but I'm afraid to stress him any more than he's already been.

Also, I should say that I don't know about amonia. I did one of those test strips and everything looked OK. It tests Nitrate, Nitrite, Total Hardiness, Total Alkalinity, pH.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

If you think he's a goner you can do clove oil to euthanize him. I suggest getting it while the Asian or Indian spice stores are still open. I was unable to find any at 2am when I needed it for my fish.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

He's still alive and I'm going to let the tetracycline try to do it's thing tonight and treat him in the morning. If he shows no sign of improvement at all, I will go to Walgreens I guess. There is no Asian store near here that I'm aware of  I have looked up how to euthanize him. I really tore up about it though, so I hold on for a miracle and hope that prayer works.


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## tiffanylucky (Nov 6, 2013)

I would put the poor thing out of its misery. What's better, him suffering a slow painful death, or just letting him go. It's not helping you or him. I think that you did a great job of taking care of him and he had a great life. I would get a new betta if I were you after he gone. You can help another betta that has no place to call home. If you love him, then let him go I know it's harder said then done. Be strong.


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## tiffanylucky (Nov 6, 2013)

Also if you need someone to talk to you. The. Send me a privet message. I went though the same thing when I was 5. My poor cat spot who was 16 was starting to suffering from old age. Me and my mom would be unable to watch our poor cat slowly die in pain. So we put her down, I don't regret this.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Please don't euthanize just yet. 

I've had fish float upside down - that were perfectly OK after a few days in Epsom salt. I'm not *promising* that my recommendations below will work, but I believe it's worth a try. It sounds to me like he may just need some Epsom salt (for its laxative effect) and some new food.

*1) Epsom salt added directly to the tank with extra conditioner*

 Add 3 teaspoons Epsom salt to one gal water. 
Since the problems began after a water change, add 1.5 times the regular amount of conditioner.
_(For example: if you usually add 20 drops: (20 x 1.5 = 30 drops))_
Stir/shake until the Epsom salt is completely dissolved.

Using this premixed solution, make FOUR 25% water changes every 15 min for 1 hour today. It's OK to wait longer than 15 minutes between them.
(Total dosage after the four changes = 1 teaspoon per gallon)
 If you run out of the solution, simply make more by following the directions in step 1.

Keep him in the Epsom salt for several days. It can take awhile to work.

*2) Food*

A betta's stomach is roughly the size of its eye. If you feed more than this, you may be overfeeding him.

Also, foods that contain a lot of grains/fillers can cause buoyancy, constipation and bloating issues.

Look at the label on your food container. If it contains lots of words like "wheat, gluten, corn, soybean, rice, etc" consider switching to a higher protein pellet.

On this forum, the two most often recommended foods are New Life Spectrum Betta pellets and Omega One Betta Buffet.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Yes please do not euthanize yet. Sometimes fish can look really bad and yet given a chance can make a full recovery and go on to live a perfectly happy life.

As mentioned he may just be constipated due to being overfed which can cause swim bladder issues. Littlebluefishlets provided some good advice there so definitely give that a go, Epsom salts actually act as a laxative so may help him.

Otherwise he may have an internal bacterial infection which can also cause swim bladder issues in which case I would recommend antibiotic treatment. Tetracycline is okay but from personal experience I prefer Furan which has saved a few of my fish and even helped a couple with swim bladder issues due to internal bacterial infection.

Swim bladder issues due to constipation usually subsides when the constipation passes. If an internal bacterial infection is to blame then the swim bladder may sustain some permanent damage however fish with swim bladder issues can live perfectly happy lives.

Animals are different to us, they do not really feel sorry for themselves but rather adjust and accept a situation. Often fish and sometimes other animals are euthanize needlessly because humans cannot stand to see them a certain way but often the reality is that the animal adjusts to the situation but we humans become distressed because the behaviors/movements or whatever the animals are displaying are not what we consider normal.

I have had a number of fish over the years that have had swim bladder issues, the worst of who spent most of his time laying on the bottom of the aquarium because swimming was difficult for him however he was a perky little fellow and once he adjusted to his new swimming techniques he would even learn to jump for his food he would get that excited and also still flare at rival males just to let them know who is boss! 

When it comes down to it euthanasia is a personal decision and one which only you can make but a lot needs to be taken into consideration when deciding, if the fish looks depressed and does not look as though they are enjoying life anymore because of obvious suffering of whatever and we have done everything that we can to save them then yes sometimes putting them to sleep is the only option however given time especially fish suffering swim bladder can adjust and live perfectly fulfilling lives.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I was about to go out and buy some clove oil, but right after my wife and I said a prayer, he came up and got some food. He's still struggling, but he did eat for the first time in a while. I'm hoping the tetracycline is working it's magic on him. 

My only fear of the salt is that I've already put a pretty good amount of aquarium salt... Would putting more salt be kind of devastating to him? What about putting some of his water in a 1 gallon tank and putting him in it for 15 minutes? Just asking because that's what I've read some people say. I've also read that it's time to euthanize when they "have no fight", but when I try to get near him or stir up the water, he will zoom around the tank.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice and info. I don't want my baby to suffer, but this little resurgence and fight in him has given me a bit of hope. I'd hate to put him down when he's just having a hard time. Such a tough choice to make and what to do. I don't want him to suffer, but he's quite peaceful at the bottom and his breathing is slow and steady, not like he's out of oxygen. Going to say another prayer or 3 tonight and hope he comes through. Frankie is tough, there is no doubt. I just wish I knew when my wife and daughter got him what I know now. I always liked the little fella, but never thought I'd grow so attached and, sadly, I just didn't know how to properly treat and care for him.

EDIT: So to reiterate about the epsom salt.. I have a "good" (maybe too much, I've added some during a few of the water changes) amount of aquarium salt.. I don't want to make things worse, but I did read about giving him a 15 minute bath in the epsom salt. I still am hoping that the swim bladder condition lessens. So is it safe to add the epsom salt to his tank and if so, should I do a full change?

From what I read, I need to finish this tetracycline treatment. Would it be safe to switch over to Furan? I'm not even sure my pet store has it. The tetracycline though has given me a bit of hope. 

I'm going to give him a chance to pull out of this. He doesn't act like he's suffering. Actually, how would I tell? I don't really know as much as I'd like to and I work in the IT business, so I'm not great with biology, although I do know how to research things on the internet. Thanks again for the advice, info, encouragement, etc. Hopefully I can report back with some good news.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Hey there,

Yes you will need to finish the tetracycline medication first or switch to Furan but to be honest if you think the Tetracycline may be helping then defiantly finish the course before considering anything else.

Is there any chance of uploading a photo of him? sorry if this has already been asked but it would really help to let us know what is going on with him. 

Salt and medications should not be mixed so yeah finish the tetracycline now that you have started it because not finishing the course can lead to bacterial resistance if bacteria is to blame and we do not want antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Is there any salt in the water which he is in now? hopefully not but if there is once you have finished the antibiotic treatment if you wish to add more salt he will need a full waer change first otherwise he may get an overdose also salt should not be used for more than 10 days otherwise it can cause kidney failure.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

There is salt in the water he's in now.. Aquarium Salt 

Here is a pic of him now:









Here was one of him not too long ago...


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

One more pic (maybe a bit clearer)...







.. 

He's such a fighter. I really hope he pulls through. I thought he would really grow and thrive in this bigger tank, but I'm learning that the filter may have been a problem. He didn't really hang near it, but it was perhaps too powerful (one of those $30 Walmart deals). I really thought that a big tank, with a filter and heater would be "moving on up" .. But I'm finally learning more about these awesome fish and how to care for them. I just hope my Frankie makes it. I will forever be sad that I didn't know how to take better care of his (sorry, I'm a big time animal lover and really over sensitive some may think), but he found a special place in my heart and I love him.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

Praying he comes through for you. Try to stay positive.


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

*I would do a 100% water change to remove the aquarium salt.*

Aquarium salt is high in sodium. This puts stress on the kidneys, which can lead to bloating and buoyancy issues. Bettas are very sensitive to this type of salt. 

Also, using aquarium salt and antibiotics at the same time will increase the stress on the kidneys and liver. 

Again: I would do a 100% water change to remove the Aquarium salt.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

LittleBlueFishlets said:


> *I would do a 100% water change to remove the aquarium salt.*
> 
> Aquarium salt is high in sodium. This puts stress on the kidneys, which can lead to bloating and buoyancy issues. Bettas are very sensitive to this type of salt.
> 
> ...


Oh no. I idid a water change but put aq salt in it. I feel so dumb as I didn't come here first. .. I put tetracycline in it as well and he moved around abit and even ate. One more change with no salt? I feel so bad for my baby buddy


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Well, as much as I hated to do it to him, I prepared him another tank with no salt, but did put tetracycline in it. He was only in the other tank a short while. I know it has to be stressful on him, and I feel like crap about it, but I was willing to put in the time and effort to try to make it right. I think this is the "last stand" for my tough little Frankie. He's so little compared to many betta, but he's been a warrior and I will never, ever forget him. Hopefully I have done right and will/have saved him. If not, I'll feel forever guilty, but I've spent all weekend trying to save him. Thanks again for all your all's help and advice. I'd been lost without.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

So you set up a tank with no salt but put the tetracycline in for him? if so that is great! Finish his antibiotic treatment and see how he goes. Don't feel bad we all make mistakes, I made many when first starting out with bettas 10 years ago but the important thing is that we learn from them. You have taken really good care of him getting such a nice big tank and heater and filter for him, but yes if the filter current it too strong it can make them unhappy so if he pull through you might need to get a more suitable one. I really do not think the filter alone would do this to him, Looking at him I am thinking maybe he has an internal bacterial infection but it is difficult to tell for sure so just finish the tetracycline treatment and then we will see where we are.

Best of luck he looks like a lovely little guy so I really hope he pulls through for you


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks. I've put in a lot of effort to save him. I feel so bad I prepared a tank and put aq salt in it, but he's in his tank with no salt and tetracycline in it. I'm going to get him some stresszyme tomorrow and hopefully he'll recover. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you all so much.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Thats great you are taking good care of him, yes please keep us updated and good luck


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

If you continue treatment post a pic. also putting a towel on top of the tank reduces stress. Not so it's dark just so the tank is dimly lit.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Well, little Frankie seems to be doing a bit better. I've seen him swim around here and there. Most of the time he still sits at the bottom. I have one last treatment to go for his tetracycline. I did put a towel over his tank for a while, but there was some really bad condensation on the light, so I removed it and it's pretty dark in the room he's in, so I'm leaving it off for now.

I have a couple of questions though... So there is no salt at all in his tank. I did put the Jungle brand Start Zyme (only thing they had at Walmart) in his tank for biological balance. 

Should I do him a 1 gallon tank with epsom salt for 15 minutes treatment or just avoid salt altogether? Once his treatment is done, I do a full water change is that correct? Also, once he's off his antibiotic, if I don't notice him being much more active, should I put him on any other medications? Finally, once all treatment is done, is it ok to put the AQ salt in the tank? I'm told this helps them out a lot, just have to not overdo it.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

How do you tell if they have popeye? His left eye looks like it's protruding out more than his right. He's still being treated with tetracycline. Tonight is his last dose. I'm not sure what to do if that doesn't work...


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Epsom salt and Aquarium salt are not the same thing.

*Aquarium salt*'s major component is sodium chloride (NaCl). Sodium must be eliminated by the kidneys, and puts stress on the internal organs. Too much of it can lead to bloating and buoyancy issues. I would NOT use aquarium salt (sodium chloride) on a regular basis. Bettas are very sensitive to this type of salt. (Who told you that this was beneficial for Bettas?)

*Epsom salt* is magnesium sulfate. It does not contain any sodium. As such, it does not lead to bloating or buoyancy issues. In fact, it has a laxative and fluid reducing effect (in people and fish).

I would treat him as I described in Post #11. Add Epsom salt directly to the tank. IMO, this will help his buoyancy issues. 

Also, the initial treatment for popeye is exactly the same dosage of Epsom salt: 1 teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon of tank water.

I would continue using the tetracycline through the entire treatment period. I would also add Epsom salt directly to the tank.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Ok. Thanks so much. The guy at my pet store told me to use aq salt. So wait till I'm done with tetracycline before adding epsom salt?


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

No, you can add the Epsom salt now. It may help with both the buoyancy issues, and the popeye.

Since the Tetracycline is in the tank now, here's a way to add Epsom salt:

1) Put some tank water into a cup.
2) Stir in 1 teaspoon Epsom salt per each gallon in your tank.
(For example: If he's currently in 6.5 gal water, add 6.5 teaspoons Epsom salt to the cup.)
3) Slowly, over the course of an hour or more.... pour the solution to the tank.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Great. So I added 2 tsp of epsom salt from existing tank water right now. I'll add a couple or 3 more before I crash for the night here in a bit. Then I'll add some more tomorrow before work. Does that sound good? I'm so grateful for everyone's help and input. I actually was able to order some clove oil from CVS just in case, but I'm starting to feel like I wont' need it and you can't imagine the weight that it lifts off my shoulders. I just need a little "leaf bed" that I can buy for him so he can sleep near the surface of the water and I'll be content. I hope he fully recovers and am seeing improvement daily. I can't express my gratitude to you all. Much thanks and much love for the help! I never though I'd care and love a fish so much, but my buddy Frankie means more to me than you can imagine.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey you getting great help , and doing good job trying to help little guy. I don't want to destruct anyone from your post but just want to say something really fast.
Water testing involves looking for things like ammonia. However it won't tell you about other contaminants or bacterial levels. So i really think that additional water changes are helpful, even in the big tanks with one betta. And filter media need to be swish /rinse in the tank water regularly.
Good luck with the little guy!!!


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Any suggestions for good testing kit? The only petsmart is about 30 minutes or so away and not in my town. I'm hoping his swim bladder problem gets better. I'm afraid it may be permanent and not sure what to do if it is. I'm going to try to get him one of those little leaf beds (or 2) for him to sleep on near the top of the tank for easy air access. When he needs to though, he seems to be able to zoom around. He's just having buoyancy issues so stays on the bottom most of the time


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

sorry all my tanks are without filters and i do full water changes for long time now ...so i dont' check my water. Wait until you get help from other members
Not sure how long you been using Epsom ?


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I put 5 tsp in 10 gallons to start. I was going to put another 5 in, but didn't yet. There is no AQ salt in it at all. His last dosage of tetracycline was this morning. I ordered him a 3 pack of the little leaf beds that have the suction cup. Hopefully he will find them comfortable.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

The API Master Liquid test kit is great.

Those leafs are wonderful but you'll have to pull the metal out of the leaf before you can put it in your tank. It's really easy so don't worry.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm sad to say his condition seems to not be improving. How long could it take for his swim bladder to normalize? It's like he wants to take off, then he moves some and sinks to the bottom. I really am at a moral dilemma. I want to do what I can for him, but I don't want him to suffer either. He seems to be at peace, and has enough energy to go up for air and food if he needs it. I have him 3 little leaf beds on the way to help him be comfortable. Should I let him just live out his life with swim bladder disorder, unable to swim around like he could, or should I euthanize him? I'm not talking about immediate. I'm exhausting all options. I just want to get an idea what I am looking at here. If he can live like that and be ok, then I don't want to put him down. But if this is permanent and I can't "fix" him, I don't want him to suffer. I'm really heartbroken to watch him try to swim and just not have the ability to do so. So sad.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

Are you using the Epsom salt yet? That is supposed to help with buoyancy. Other than that swim bladder usually rights itself if it is going to.


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## jsgossamer (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a betta that I got as a baby from Petco that has a swim bladder defect . He just lays on the bottom or on his hammock, but always comes up to eat and wiggles happily when he sees me. he also builds bubble nests when he gets the strength. I have had him 6 months now. Bettas with swim bladder disease are not in pain, there is no reason to euthanize him. they adapt. Hopefully, it is just temporary and not permenant as my fish has.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Yes actually. I have put 10 tsp of Epsom salt in his tank. It's been going on 12 days now since he's started having issues. I'm afraid it could be something permanent. Should I consider doing another 100% water change the next day or so and using the 1 tsp/gal epsom for a bit longer or just keep the same water. My concern is that the water still is yellowish from the tetracycline and maybe a fresh change would be good. Also, how about any other medications? Thanks as always.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

jsgossamer said:


> I have a betta that I got as a baby from Petco that has a swim bladder defect . He just lays on the bottom or on his hammock, but always comes up to eat and wiggles happily when he sees me. he also builds bubble nests when he gets the strength. I have had him 6 months now. Bettas with swim bladder disease are not in pain, there is no reason to euthanize him. they adapt. Hopefully, it is just temporary and not permenant as my fish has.


Great info. Hopefully it's temporary. His little hammock should be in by Saturday hopefully. Mine does the same thing. He wiggles around when he sees me and goes up to eat and for air. When he's motivated, he can zip around the tank. But he seem to tire out and goes back to the bottom. Thanks for the insight.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am at work and it take me long time to write so i didn't see post #38 and i also didn't see your post Richard. I just always reload now before i post....any way i didn't read post but i still want to post what i wrote....
First i think you doing god job trying to help little guy. And btw you was too hard on yourself though, you didn't do anything wrong. We all have our way to take care of our loved bettas. And sometimes if you think you would do other way, then you will do other way. Everything comes with experience. So do not blame yourself at all. He lived good 2 years . Some people can't get them live that long.

I really want you to read POST#12 from eggiegirl 

I personally don't like to euthanize my bettas. I just had my 4 years old betta died. He developed dropsy over period of 2 wks. He was dying , but he was eating almost to his last day. And also bettas don't feel pain or sorry about themselves so your betta is not suffering. Especially that he is eating. 

But what i think is the best for him now is smaller tank or container. Sorry i didn't read all post's, i just read them briefly but i saw you have 1 gall tank. So if you can i would transfer him to the smaller tank and lower the water. It will be easier for him and for you to do water changes. Or you can put floating container , a bigger see through tupperware and let it float in the tank to maintain the temperature.

Continue to use Epsom with daily water changes. Epsom is very mild and you can use it for long time. You didn't even use it for long time...and since the low dose not helping i would increase the dose to 3 tsp/gall and use it minimum for 14 days with daily water changes. Alternate daily water changes between 50% and 100%. 

If you want you can try Kanaplex in case he has internal infection. Kanaplex is good antibiotic treats both external and internal infection. This particular medication you can find only at small private fish stores

Also i read Maracyn II the antibiotic that will absorb through the skin/gills and reach internal infection.

And i read long time ago that Oldfishlady wrote that if fish has chronic bouyancy problems she likes to keep them long term in low dose Epsom salt(1 tsp/gall), low water level containers with no water movement, items placed near the surface that can be used for him to rest on and with the top covered to retain heat and humidity for labyrinth organ. 

For food/nutrition -if you have access to mosquito larva would be good idea. Or any live foods like smashed up worms, frozen daphnia.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks again. I've read every single post and am trying to figure out what best to do. The only problem with my 1 gallon tank is that my heater is pretty big and the room he stays in (for right now.. long story) gets colder than 70 F at night, so I have to have him a heater. Maybe I'll look at the floating tank option as well. I do have a 3 pack of the Zoo med Betta Bed Leaf Hammock on the way .. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200954748921&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:3160

Anyways, I'll keep doing the suggestions you all recommend. I'll do water changes and keep adding epsom salt with water changes. I can't help but wonder if the tetracycline was enough medicine or perhaps he needs one of the others you mentioned. I'll maybe look in to that too. 

Much love for all the help. Glad to know he's not suffering. I'll work with him and hopefully he'll get better. If not, well, I'll make things as comfortable as I can.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think it will be a good idea, to use a floating container. Just make sure to make a few holes in the lid for air.
Give us an updater please, good luck!


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Well, I moved him to the 1 gal tank and have a space heater that is close to it to keep it warm. I'm doing 100% water changes with 3 tsp per gal of epsom salt. The little guy is not doing real well though it seems. He's not really eating and just sitting on the bottom. I got his little leaf bed in and put it in his tank, but he's not used it yet. I think he ate a bit yesterday, but was thinking of getting some live brine shrimp to see if that perked him up. He's struggling though and not getting any better it seems, I'm sad to say.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry The best is to keep him now is to be in the shallow water. I don't know how you can feed him with the brine shrimp though. I think it will be more convenient for him and for you, is to try frozen blood worms. You can feed him with a tweezers. You can take one side with a tweezers and the other side a blood worm bring it right to his mouth and see if he will eat it.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

ANHEL123 said:


> Sorry The best is to keep him now is to be in the shallow water. I don't know how you can feed him with the brine shrimp though. I think it will be more convenient for him and for you, is to try frozen blood worms. You can feed him with a tweezers. You can take one side with a tweezers and the other side a blood worm bring it right to his mouth and see if he will eat it.


I may try that as well. I was hoping live brine would excite him and get him chasing them. He always liked live food. He likes frozen blood worms too. He seems at peace. I think he's just old and not in the best of health. I've learned a lot though. Hopefully my lil' buddy will be around a while longer, but the next time, I'll know a lot more about how to properly care for a betta. Thanks for all the help to you and everyone else. It's meant a lot.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm kind of torn now. Poor Frankie isn't really moving much and doesn't seem interested in food. He's so little and skinny and just sits at the bottom. I don't think he has much time left. The fact that he's not eating makes me wonder if he's suffering... I hope not


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## LittleBlueFishlets (Nov 10, 2012)

Poor little guy. :-(

Did you try the frozen/live food?

You're definitely trying to do everything you can for him....


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

I never did get any live food. I just think the little guy is too far gone. Nov 15th is when we did his water change and I didn't give him tetracycline until about a week later. I treated him for swim bladder disorder, fasted him, etc. But I didn't change the water and I was a week after before posting here. I don't think there is anything else I can do for him. He's just so puny and little. I really thought when I got him his 10 gallon tank that he would get bigger, but he was a walmart rescue that lived over 2 years. He's still alive, but shows no sign of improving. Barring some miracle, I think my little guys time is almost up. I've spent over $100 trying to save him and I have failed. Had I taken better care of him from the start, changing his water more frequently, not had that stupid pump, had him a bigger tank, etc., I think he could have lived a lot longer. Sadly, we live and learn the hard way in life. I'm grateful for everyone's advice, and it will be invaluable moving forward, but I think my little Frankie is too far gone. He just has no interest in eating or anything.

If someone has some last words of wisdom on how to help him, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I just think his time on this earth is almost done. He didn't have the best life, but he was loved. He's still hanging in there some how. He's a fighter for sure. But he's suffered and I will always remember that and most of all will always love my little Frankie.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry You can try daily water changes and 3 tsp/gall of Epsom. You can alternate daily water changes between 50% and 100%.
Yes you right, he was loved and had a pretty good life. And you did the best you can for him, and i think you doing good/right care. Some bettas live 5 years and some live 2 years. If you have him for 2 years he is probobly about 2.6 y old.
And if he dies make sure you disinfect the tank before you put another betta there. Let us know , we will give you instructions on disinfection. Sorry if i am saying it too early....i don't meant to give up. I would actually still try Epsom and daily water changes.
And thank you!


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

It's been over 2 weeks since the little fella has been sick... Is it too late to try to order Kanaplex you think? He's really weak and I used tetracycline to no avail.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am afraid to say something wrong...i think he is sick for the long time and it might not help. But you can try it , if you have small fish store in your area. I don't think you have time to order it But its always good to have this medication on hand if you going to have another betta.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks ANHEL123 and everyone else. I brought Frankie home some brine shrimp (he always loved them) and some frozen blood worms. I even use some clippers and held the blood worms right in front of him and he won't eat them. I think this little fella has had enough. If he would eat, then I make him comfortable. But the fact that he won't eat makes me think he is dying and/or miserable and I can't keep doing that. I was able to special order some clove oil about a week ago from CVS (this stuff is hard to come by) and am prepared to put him down later tonight to end his suffering and my family's as well. 

You all have been wonderful and I am forever grateful, but I can't keep watching him waste away and not even be able to eat. I feel as though I can't keep thinking of myself and my sorrow, but about Frankie and what's best for him. 

I am prepared to do it later after my wife gets home and I've had a few more drinks. I will be a sad guy for a while, but my little buddy deserves to not suffer. I at least feel I did all I could do. I will forever feel guilt, but I tried my best and he was loved.


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## Confishius (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry- I had to put down my beautiful sasuke when I was 12, so I know how you feel. yes, Frankie was obviously very loved, I bet you made his life so much better. you're right, it will hurt, but it will be a lot easier than watching him waste away of come home one day to find him dead. again, I'm so, so sorry for your loss.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thank you. I've been struggling with this and my last hope was the blood worms. I've come to terms with it though. I may get another soon. There are some pitiful ones at Wal-Mart. Makes me soooo mad.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Well, this was the end. RIP Frankie 12/2/2013 @ 10:20 PM EST. May God welcome him to his kingdom. Loved him so much.


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## Kithy (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm very sorry  You did everything you could. Frankie had a short life but it was filled with more love than most fish ever get to experience. You did not fail him, you loved him and cared for him very much.

If you ever feel up to it you can honor his memory by rescuing another betta someday. Even if they only last a day in your hands that is a day of love they would never have had otherwise.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thank you Kithy. We have shed many tears tonight. I was very moved by my 8 year old son. He was really tore up and cried a lot. He was witness to all that happened, but his mom watched her daddy die of a heart attack when she was 10, so I thought it best to prepare him for death. We have 2 cats that are aging, grandparents that are old and who knows what fate holds for any of us. 

Little Frankie was only 2 years old or so, but I've learned so much, the hard way I must say, that the next fish I have will be much better cared for. We said our goodbyes and cried for little Frankie, but there is a peace about me now because I know he is not suffering. I only pray there is a heaven for fish and that we see him again someday. 

Thanks all and God Bless.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

so sorry ,you did everything you could. I think it was right decision you made. He is under the rainbow bridge now swimming happily and appreciating all you love, and all you care.
Sorry for saying it too early but i want to say it before you decide to rescue another one. Sorry again...But disinfect the tank if you getting another one. Let us know and we will give you instructions.
Just one advice. I know how painful to see them suffer at the Wal- mart. But go to the pet store and but healthy betta. And try to see ,and make sure he don't have any signs of the disease. I just came to conclusion that while we feel sorry for the poor bettas at the bad stores that don't care about them, the healthy one that left behind will get sick sooner or later if no one buys them. And since you have a son who is 8 you don't want him to see suffering fish again. So go to the good store and try to find healthy fish. There is always possibilities to get sick one anyway. You guys make me cry, but it also makes me happy that so many people cares about my favorite fish in the world. He had good life and was loved which is more than he would ever get in the store if you would not get him, so just get another one please. All animal/pets get sick later or sooner , all it matter we love them ,care about them and do the best we can. 
Thank you!


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks for your help and support ANHEL123. I definitely will disinfect the tank before getting any more fish. It will probably be after the holidays. I'd like to be able to get a water testing kit and not those junky strips and make sure I have everything I need. I may actually use the 10 gallon tank for other fish and maybe get a smaller tank with gravel filter and such for a betta. I really loved little Frankie and hear you about the suffering animals at Walmart and other places. It really is sad and I can't believe they don't feed them and change the water occasionally. It's very inhumane and I hate to see any animal suffer. I would definitely prefer to get one that is healthy and could hopefully live a long time. Anyways, I know where to come next time to make sure that the next betta gets the best care from the start. Hope you and everyone else here has a happy holidays. Until next time, take care!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Its a very cruel world i would say. Many animals are suffering, and get abused. So if we able to help them ,it would make the diffirence in the world. Frankie was lucky to have you. If you had him for 2 years then he is about 3 years old, and it ok for a betta. Some people can't get this far with their betta.
I am sure everyone will be happy to see your new guy! Let us know when you get your fishy
Just one advice when you get more than one fish always quarantine them from each other in case one can be sick. And sometimes fish can show symptoms later on. So make sure if you will up and running 10 gall quarantine all of them. I personally prefer to watch every new fish and i hold on on the gravel and plants for at lease few wks, don't want to end up with disinfection.


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks again for the advice. I'll make sure to do my homework next time around. Frankie was something my wife and daughter went out and bought and I didn't really know much about. I'm much more informed and want to make sure to give any new fish the best possible life/chance possible.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey Richard did you had a chance to rescue new guy?


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## RichardN (Nov 23, 2013)

No things have not gone so well since little Frankie passed on. We have a lot of family issues going on and such. My daughter did buy her one not long ago, Olaf, and he's very cute and doing well. I hope to get one here in the fairly near future though. Thanks for asking


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry i hope everything is well in your family, and hope to see you on the forum soon!


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