# Lathargic Fishy..



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

I impulse bought a betta (Orville) at a pet store that was closing, about a week ago. After purchasing I got a crash course on how the tank/setup I bought was terrible (was about 1 quart no heater, filter or hiding places) so upgraded him to 1 gallon fish hotel 









, toms mini filter, 10w heater, plant bulb, leaf hammock. He loved it would only swim in the windows and lounged in the leaf hammock all the time. The past two days he has been clamped up and laying on the bottom of the tank and avoiding the windows on the tank when not on the bottom. Today I went to feed him and he only ate two of his three pellets and won't flare if I put a mirror up to the tank. I haven't been doing water changes since I started used the filter. Could this be my problem? I thought that was the whole point of the filter... Any advice would be helpful thanks!

Housing 
What size is your tank? 1.5 gal
What temperature is your tank? 75
Does your tank have a filter? Yes Tom Mini Filter
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?Betta Bio-gold
How often do you feed your betta fish? 3 pellets twice a day 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? Haven't for 4 days
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Aqua Safe

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? no

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? seems less color around his face
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? hiding and not responding when I come around. 
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Yesterday
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)? young adult?


----------



## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

You should do the water changes. That will probably help. You should look at the betta care sticky in this forum. I believe there are 3 or 4 to choose from. That will let you know how much of the water you should change and when.
Also, you may be feeding your fish too much. 6 pellets seems a little much. Someone else with more experience, please chime in if I'm wrong.


----------



## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

3 pellets twice a day is WAYYYY too much, for starters. Also in a 1.5g you need to do water changes at _least_ twice a week of 50 to 100%, filter or no filter. The best amount to feed him would be just 3 pellets a day, no more than that, a bettas stomach is the size of his eye  The temp could be boosted a couple degrees up btw, 75 is a bit chilly.


----------



## Blaze54 (Apr 14, 2011)

Please take no offense in this,but 6 pellets is quite a bit! I'd say maybe 2-3 pellets a day would be good.


----------



## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

I would start out with a 100% water change today. Like bettafish15 said you should do a minimum of 2 water changes a week with the size tank you have. Make sure at least 1 is a 100% water change. Is the heater adjustable? I would increase it to 78. He may also be cold. All of my bettas get 2 pellets in the morning and 2 in the evening (except the king male and giant which get a little more).


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Ok Thanks for the advice! I already did a partial water change. Hopefully that is all I needed to do. He already seems happier. I will do a full water change tonight. Just wondering what builds up in the water that makes this necessary? Water changes make me nervous is all. Scared of shocking the fish. Since I have the water heated what is the best way to add water without doing this? Or are betta fish more resilient than I think?

As for the 6 pellets, I was just going off the food directions. They say 2-4 pellets 2-3 times a day... So I figured 3 twice a day was in the middle. 

As for the heater, it is automatically set to 78 but my thermometer on the tank says around 75... Maybe look into getting a different heater as well? 

Thanks again for your advice :-D


----------



## newbie32 (Mar 28, 2011)

ammonia and nitrites will build up and hurt or maybe kill your fish. you can siphon the water out of your tank and that is relatively calm for your fish. i take my fish out and put him in the container i bought him and do the water change. when the water is at the same temp as before, i just put the cup in the water and let him swim out. he was pretty stressed when i did it, but i'm hoping he will get used to it. i'm still trying to think of other ways to do a less stressful water change.


----------



## Blaze54 (Apr 14, 2011)

You should almost never listen to the instructions on the fish food container/bag. But that was an honest mistake. Like the classic:"Awww he's lonely"*puts another male betta in**comes back 10 min. later*"What!?!?!? there dead!!!!!!"


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

So Orville is still acting sickly after a 100% water change. After doing more research I have realized when I bought him he had fin rot to begin with. (I thought that was just his coloring) But still doesn't explain his lack of energy. I don't think it could be the temperature hanging around 75-76 because before he had the heater he would happily swim around. 

Going to start with adding sea salt for the fin rot but any other recommendations as to drops I should try? Wondering if he has a bacterial infection? Any suggestions on further treatment possibilities would be greatly appreciated.. 

He only swam to the top to eat and then back to the bottom he went...


----------



## bettafish15 (Oct 3, 2010)

Ah... don't add sea salt, add API's Aquarium Salt. Seasalt will kill your betta, and there IS a difference between the two  Just fyi.


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

bettafish15 said:


> Ah... don't add sea salt, add API's Aquarium Salt. Seasalt will kill your betta, and there IS a difference between the two  Just fyi.


Yes, that is what I referring too sorry..


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

In a 1.5gal filtered tank-I would make twice week water changes of 50%....1-50% water only and 1-50% to include substrate cleaning with a vacuum or stir and dip method.....

Right now I would start making 50% daily water changes for 2-3 days and see if this would perk him up

Try to keep the water temp within a couple of degrees between new and old water with the water changes and use a good dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank with the replacement water

If possible up the water temp just a bit to 78F and see if that will help any

Do you have access to any live food like mosquito larva...

Can you post a pic of the fins and give more detail and to understand....he is a new fish that started to become lethargic but still eats and maybe some fin rot...correct.....you just did a 100% water change after 4 days in the new tank and he continues to be lethargic....right.....

If you decide to go ahead and start a salt treatment I would move him to a smaller QT container that can be floated in a heated tank...use 1tsp/gal to start along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days...


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Yesterday I did a 50% water change this morning I did 100% water change always while using a terta water conditioner.

I am planning on returning the current heater for an adjustable temp one when I make the trip to the pet store for aquarium salt, water test kit, frozen blood worms, and possibly some maracin 1 & maracin 2 or another drop that would be recommended.

Here are the pictures that I could manage to take of the fins. They mainly are ragged looking with black tips. It is hard to see since he is always clamped up on the bottom hiding the tank which doesn't really help for photographing.


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

So Orville's health record purchased exactly a week ago, went through tank upgrades from pint, quart, and then too the gallon tank with heater, and filter on last Thursday seemed happy. Saturday mainly hung out on his leaf hammock but still acting normal. Sunday just hug out on the bottom of the tank, Monday did a 50% water change still no change and then today 100% water change. Today I can see his gills flaring when breathing, loss of color around face, only comes to the surface to eat... hope this is what you were looking for..


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Update:

So after my trip to the petstore I came back with aquarium salt, blood worms, ammonia test kit, new heater, and Betta Revive ( currently unsure if I will use)

The ammonia test kit gave a reading between .5-1 which I found odd since I had just done a full water change, I had some water that I hadn't put in the tank but had treated and it too had the same ammonia reading, which leads me to think the water conditioner (Tetra Aqua Safe) was not helping reduce the ammonia problem... So I will be heading to the pet store to choose a different one in the morning since they are closed. Any recommendations on that would be helpful.

The water is now a balmy 78-79 with the new heater, and Orville has perked up a bit but, still returns to the bottom often. 

After I get new water conditioner I will do 100% water change with the addition of the Aquarium salt and hopefully he will be able to pull through.. 

Thanks for helping!


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Check your tap water for ammonia......

Good that he perked up some......

Sometimes it can take a couple of days....


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Today Orville is thankfully swimming, eating, and using his hammock(so cute how did I not know they did this?). This morning I did a full water change with Aquarium salt and Prime water conditioner. I plan on continuing the water change with the salt for the next 5 days. Is this the right course of action?

The new marineland heater I purchased is unfortunately preset to 78 like my last one but, instead of running a bit on the cool side the marineland if left unattended will rocket to 85-86 so I have been unplugging once the tank reaches 80. After reading some treads I ordered the Hagen Elite mini 25w. None of the pet stores carry it so I will continue my unplug method until the new one arrives. Then return the one I just bought, thanks to petsmart's awesome return policy : )

Thankfully I will be able to get some work done today since it is hard when there is a sick fish looking at you on your desk. Thanks again for all your advice!


----------



## iheartmybettas (Jan 31, 2011)

Sick fish can be a lot of work but it is worth it to see them get better. You are doing a great job. The Elite heater is awesome and will be perfect for your tank. Good luck and I look forward to hearing more about Orville's recovery!


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Check your tap water for ammonia......
> 
> Good that he perked up some......
> 
> Sometimes it can take a couple of days....


My plain tap water when tested seems to be right around a 1.0 if not even a little higher... Tested the new water and also is around 1.0 is this something I should be concerned about?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Its not uncommon for tap water to have ammonia, however, you may want to get a dechlorinator like Prime that covers ammonia since your source water may be part of the problem......but don't be surprised if the test still show ammonia...usually it is ammonium and harmless to the fish....


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Great! I will just keep using the Prime water conditioner and salt bath until his fins heal. 

Oliver has been swimming all day! :-D I must be doing something right!

What is the recommended amount of blood worms for a betta? I have given him his two pellets and two freeze dried blood worms throughout the day am I over feeding again? ;-)


----------



## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

I would cut back on the freeze dried bloodworms, they are even less nutritious than flake food. Anything freeze dried should be quite limited as it is the fisy equivalent of chips.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Salt bath that u are treating with 1 tsp/gall that Oldfishlady recommended should be no longer then 10 days only. 
But i assuming that Prime u need to use all the time since u have water issues?

I am glad he feels better.


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

ANHEL123 said:


> Salt bath that u are treating with 1 tsp/gall that Oldfishlady recommended should be no longer then 10 days only.
> But i assuming that Prime u need to use all the time since u have water issues?
> 
> I am glad he feels better.


Yes, I will continue using the prime water conditioner with any water change from now on.. and 1tsp/gal salt for 5-10 days depending on how his fins start to look. 

His color is coming back, blowing bubbles and swimming. Seems to be in the clear! So glad I don't have to make another trip to a pet store today.

If I hadn't had everyone's help and advice I probably would have lost him. Many Thanks!


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think it important to finish 10 days course of the salt treatment. Even though u see improvement it need to be finished.


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

update: Orville is feisty as ever, now that he is swimming un-clamped I can see how bad his fin rot was/is. There is even a pin hole on his tale. So silly of me to think his tail was a modified crown tail.. but lesson learned. His color is brighter then when I bought him! So can't wait to see him after he is better! YAY!


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

your betta so cute and i love the tank set up. I love that salt treatment helped and u don't damage fish with that. I usually treat other people bettas with medications but i will definitely considered try aquarium salt.

Also i spoke to someone who gives her bettas cooked shrimp. Which give their diet more protein which makes their immune system stronger. I just don't know how to do it. I am afraid them to choke on it. I don't know if i can just give them tiny piece or i have to ground it.

I want to ask Oldfishlady about that. Or maybe she can see my tread. I would really love to feed them with that. What a feast!!!


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

I make my homemade food out of shrimp, garlic and spinach all smashed up together to make a paste and feed my fish daily.....


----------



## SillyCone (May 7, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> I make my homemade food out of shrimp, garlic and spinach all smashed up together to make a paste and feed my fish daily.....


Then put all on a pan, deep-fry it and steal from the fish... Yoink!


----------



## LucyLoofa (May 30, 2010)

WOW! Saw only the first page of this lol!
Glad your fish is doing better. May his road to recovery be a safe one!


----------



## Kiere (May 9, 2011)

Thanks Anhel, he does have quite the personality! The AQ salt is working great! I ordered the Jungle medication you recommended to have on hand in the event of an Betta emergency. Also plan on getting some Epsom salts as well. Better safe then sorry : )

OFL I saw you have a heavily planted tanks, I have a lilly bulb that has yet to sprout but has a fluffy white fuzz growing on it. Is this something I should worry about or is this normal plant bulb activity?


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am glad ur betta doing good!!! 

I have more questions to Oldfishlady though. I feel silly to ask those questions.

What i can smashed it with? I don't have food processor. Can i use garlic squeezer? Should i make little pellets and freeze it or just make little pellets and feed them fresh?

Sorry i feel i ask silly questions. But i am petrified if they will choke on it.


----------



## SillyCone (May 7, 2011)

that's not a silly question, is actually a good one, now that I think about it I wouldn't know how to prepare either.


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

And it would be good because with that variety of the food they can stay healthier and fight disease easier if they get sick. And can u imagine how much they will love it and exited. All mine bettas so exited every morning and evening!!! They are so funny

I think OFL will see my question she is offline now. I can't wait to try new food for them!


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I also don’t know do we have to buy fresh spinach or frozen one? 
If it fresh how long we have to boil it? And can we freeze that mixed or it really better feed them with fresh food, because I think it will lose some nutrition’s if we freeze it?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Homemade fish food-I use only human grade food items and it varies when I make it depending on how much items I have on hand since I grow my own spinach and garlic
I use raw jumbo shrimp-I remove the shell except for the tail..I chop and smash the shrimp and tail into a paste with a knife
Garlic-fresh-depending on clove size 2-6 cloves-I use a garlic press and crush it
Spinach-5-8 leaves depending on size-I blanch it in boiling water for a min or so till wilted and smash it up with the garlic while still warm the add the smashed shrimp and smash it all together with the knife or fork...I don't use a food processor......you can...but not needed.....
I looks/smells like green garlic shrimpy paste...lol.....I put in in zip-lock bag and press out flat and freeze...break off what you want to feed each day....

Plants bulb-if it has white fuzz on it-remove from the tank and wash it off and check it...if it is soft and mushy....its bad...toss it in the trash or compost pile...if it is still hard or firm to touch...wash and place in a dish of clean dechlorinated water in a sunny window for a few days and see if it will sprout......I get a 50/50 success on these bulbs......nice plants once they do grow......


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oldfishlady i am so sorry but is it possible to use cooked shrimp? Just do everything u say but with cooked shrimp?


----------



## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes, either will work...steamed or no seasoning added boil or raw are fine....I have used both...raw can get messy and sticky sometimes but if you add the hot spinach fast enough it will kinda cook it some to make it easier to handle/work with too....


----------



## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Thank you so much for ur help. It very helpful information. I really glad that i can add more nutrition’s to their diet. I would never now about that. Thank you so much


----------

