# A little help? I don't know whats wrong......



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I have a red betta fish in a 2.5 gallon tank. I actually bought him at a 99-cent store (I know, I know. I bought him in order to get him OUT of the 99-cent store!) about 6 months ago, and transferred him to the glass tank about 2 months ago when the weather started to get really cold. He has a heater and the water temp has been pretty constant. I also have a blue betta that I bought at the same time in another tank right beside him, same living conditions. Whatever one gets, the other gets.

Lately, the red one (his name is Peanut Butter) Has not been himself. He has been alternately staying by the top of the tank or down on the bottom. He wasn't eating, but he ate some yesterday, and now he's not eating again. The Ph in the tank is 6.6 and I'm trying to bring it up, but to no avail.

I'm really trying to save him, but I don't know what's wrong or what else I should be doing. The blue fish (his name is Jelly) is doing fine.

Help! What's going on? Can we save Peanut Butter? ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated by me AND my 9-year-old daughter who loves him very much!

:---------------------------------(


----------



## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

How often do you change the water, and do you know the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels?


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Wow.....you got me there. I'm still pretty new at this. I didn't know anything about ammonia/nitrate/nitrite levels or even how to test for them. As for the tank, it most likely need a water change, but I'm afraid to stress him out. He's still with us, but now he's just sitting on the bottom of the tank, and I still can't get the PH up.

I'm beginning to panic. What's my next step?


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Ok when was the last time you changed the water and how much? And do you use a water conditioner to remove the harmful chemicals in the tap water before adding it to the tank?

If you haven't done a water change for a while, do a big one on both tanks immediately. Get an API freshwater master test kit to test your water for what FuulieQ listed. Don't bother buying those dip strips, they're not very accurate. The kit can be a little pricey and I'm not sure where you're located but I've found it at Walmart before for $15 or $16.

The test will also let you know when your tanks have cycled (read about the Nitrogen Cycle either here on the forum or google it). Once they have cycled you only need to do some weekly maintenance to keep your fish healthy and happy.

Good luck and keep us posted. We'll help as much as we can to save PB & J (cute names by the way).


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Forgive me...I have sinned.

The water hasn't been changed in quite a while, but I do always remove the chlorine before I add water to the tank. 

I'm in NYC, so the water test kit should be pretty easy to find. I have a Petland right near my house so I'll call them first.

My only hope right now is that I can fix this mess before I lose poor Peanut Butter. Jelly is doing fine so far, but I'll make sure he stays that way. My daughter named them. I was thinking of naming them Abercrombie & Fish, but she disagreed with me. After all, they're HER fish.

Is there a less stressful way to change the water? I've only ever done a partial water change.

Thank you so much for your help, everyone. I'll let you know how it's going. PB is still with us for the time being, but he's just sitting on the bottom of the tank. Send your good thoughts in his direction!


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

OK, I bought the test kit and tested the water in the tank. The ammonia level is between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm, which I now Know is not good. I did a partial water change but I don't think it helped much. Would it be insane for me to put him back in the little tank I brought him home in, just so I could clean his tank out? Would that stress him too much? Every time I go over to the tank I pray he's still with us. I can't stand seeing him just sitting on the bottom like that.

I won't be able to get anything to treat the water with until I get out of work tomorrow (stupid Petland doesn't open until 10!) Is there anything I can do in the interim?

Sincerely,
Anxious


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

You should prolly. do more of a water change with that much ammonia. Until your tank is cycled, you'll want to change out somewhere between 40-50% every other day to keep ammonia down.

Did you get the API kit? If yes, list your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph. Test your tap water for ph to see where it reads. The worst thing for the fishies are big swings up or down with ph. If you change out water more frequently, your ph should stabilize somewhat because it will be close to your tap water ph unless you have something in the tank that would lower or raise it considerably. You don't want anything in there like a coral or something that would really only do well in a saltwater tank.

Pick up some aquarium salt when you go to the petstore. Add a little to the conditioned water each time you do a water change (assuming you only have the bettas and no other fish in the tanks that might be sensitive to it). The AQ salt helps with their electrolytes and is a pretty good preventative for them.

Keep the tank temp. between 76-80 degrees.

Finally, are there any other signs of illness? Is he bloated? Any raised scales? Any fuzziness or white patches on his body? Are his eyes clear (not cloudy)?

Phew!!


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

You might want to test your tap water for ammoniia too, before adding water conditioner. A lot of us use Prime, which neuutralizes ammonia.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

OK, here are the stats as of 10 this morning est:

Ph: 7.2
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm

His eyes look clear, but there's a whitish patch near his tail.

I bought a bottle of Ammo-Lock, which came with a bottle of Stress-Zyme.

There appears to be ammonia in my tap water.

What's my next step? I feel like time is not on my side right now. When I came home today I thought he was already gone. I'm really worried.

What do I do now? Peanut Butter's life is in your hands now.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

there's a method to his madness........I just don't know what it is.

Peanut Butter has not taken to draping himself over the top of the suction cup that holds the thermometer o the side of the tank. This puts him at the very top of the tank. I've nudged him a few times (I know I shouldn't, but I thought he had left us). Each time I did he'd swim away, but a few minutes later he was back on top of the thermometer again.

Does this mean something?


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I meant Peanut Butter has NOW taken to draping himself over the thermometer< not "not". Darn uncooperative fingers.....


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

The white patch might be an indication. Is there any way to tell if it's fuzzy. Your boy could have a bacterial or fungal infection. Let him rest near the surface bc it sounds like he's trying to get air there. Do you have a leafy silk plant that you can put in there so he doesn't have to struggle to get to the top?

Try to post a picture of the patchy area.

Fingers crossed!


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm trying to get a picture of the patchy area, but Peanut Butter is not cooperating. He's either draped over the suction cup or he's facing the wrong way. It's very hard for me to tell if it's fuzzy or not. He's kind of small and when he sits on the bottom of the tank he blends in with the gravel. I'll keep trying.

I don't know if you saw my previous post, but his tank numbers are as follows:

Ph: 7.2
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm.

I tested my tap water for ammonia and found it to be .25 ppm as well.

Can we save Peanut Butter?


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would switch to Prime conditioner. It neutralizes the ammonia in tapwater.


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Good advice on the Prime conditioner. Your levels other than the ammonia are perfect. Other than keeping the water clean, keeping him warm and adding some AQ salt to the water with each change, it's hard to know where else to go here unless you want to assume he has a fungal or bacterial issue.

If you think the patchiness is abnormal for him, you might want to try a med. like Jungle Fungus Clear, JF Eliminator, Furan, Maracyn I & Maracyn II. I think most people on here would recommend the Maracyn combination.

Perhaps you can put him in a clear container and bring him to a good fish store so they can take a look at him? 

Hope you can figure this out !


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

The pet stores around me don't have the Prime conditioner, so I was wondering: should I put Ammo-Lock in the water I intend to use for the next water change, until I can get to a bigger pet store over the weekend? I've already put in dechlorinator.

I got the Furan because they didn't have anything else, and I put some in the tank. He's still with us, draped over the thermometer. I took a few pictures (which aren't very good) and I'll try to upload them this evening. I'm not sure if they'll tell you anything, but at least you'll get to see where he spends most of his time lately.

One more anxious question: how long can he last without eating? I don't think he's had anything to eat in the past few days.

Oy.....


----------



## xgoingdownx (Jan 29, 2010)

I've read that bettas can live for 7-10 days without food, although I'm not 100% sure on if that's true. Are you sure he won't eat anything? What have you tried? Usually bettas will jump at the chance to eat some bloodworms. [at least my betta loves them]


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I'll try the bloodworms, thanks!


----------



## xgoingdownx (Jan 29, 2010)

Don't give him too many as they're considered a treat because of the high level of protein. Too much will make him bloated/constipated. [but if he won't eat the pellets or flakes you have, it's worth a shot]


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Got it! Thank you!


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

This is the best picture of the bunch I took of Peanut Butter. I hope it gives you guys something to go on.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Here's a close-up. The white patch is partially hidden by the suction cup, but some of it is visible. This is where he spends almost all of his time. Is it too late for him? What's my next step?


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Could it be ich? A co-worker gave me a bottle of Copper Safe, but I haven't used it. He's htill hanging on, but I'm afraid time is not on my side. I really don't want to lose him.

I've gotten so many water treatments and medications in the past few days that I am quite confused by now. I don't want to create a toxic cocktail in his tank. Should I list all the suff I have on my nest posting? It's starting to look like a fishy pharmacy in my kitchen!

Signed,
Very Anxious


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It looks like it might be some kind of fungus. I would try Maracyn1 and Maracyn2 together. Maracyn is a broad spectrum antibiotic so hopefully it will help.


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Agree on the Maracyn combo. That is def. not ich.

Just be sure to remove any charcoal filtering from the tank if you have any while you're treating him.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I tried to get Maracyn at my local Petland, but they're out of stock at the moment. We've just gotten like a foot and a half of snow here, so trekking to another pet shop further away may be difficult. Is there anything else I can use in the meantime? I have Furan in the house. Would that be a suitable alternative?

He's back to sitting on the bottom of the tank. I don't know if that's good or bed.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would go ahead and try the Furan. I just read about it and it sounds pretty similar to Maracyn. It treats bacterial infections.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Furan in the tank......we'll see what happens. He's back up on top of the thermometer.

Keep sending healing energy his way. I really want him to come back to us!

I don't see him eating lately. One more thing to worry about. Oy.


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I really hope the medication helps! Poor thing.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Since I can't get my hands on Prime conditioner for the time being, can I use Ammo-Lock instead? My feeling is that it's better than nothing. Is that a suitable alternative?

He's still with us..............


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I don't know anything about Ammo Lock. Hopefully someone will come along and advise you about it.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Ammo-Lock is made by API and says it's a water conditioner and ammonia detoxifier. I don't know fithat helps. If anyone out there is familiar with this product, please let me know ASAP. I'm not sure if time is on my side.

Oy.......


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Here's the latest photo........ anyone have any ideas?


----------



## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

Ammo-lock will neutralize ammonia and works to condition tap water to remove chlorine and chloramine so it works just as well as Prime. Keep in mind however that it does not remove the ammonia just neutralizes it so its not toxic, it still leaves behind molecules and will increase osmotic pressure (lot of chemistry, won't get into here) but if you are doing regular water changes then that won't be a problem. Just remember that the more you put in the water even if its meant to make the water safer it will increase the osmotic pressure and cause stress on the fish. I would go with daily water changes and add the salt and the antibiotic to the new water along with the conditioner. I hope this helps you. Mine currantly has a swollen lip with a white patch which looks like some kind of fungus so i'll be pretty much doing the same thing. Good luck and i hope your betta feels better.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Thank you so much for the information. Every day it seems I'm learning something new about the care and feeding of these little guys.

I probably haven't been changing the water often enough. How much of the water should I change daily? Is there any chance Peanut Butter will survive?


----------



## faewind1 (Dec 6, 2009)

you can change anywhere between 20 to 50% daily while sick. mine has columnaris aka cotton mouth or cotton wool disease which yours probably has. here's a link which gives some fantastic info on treating it. I followed it and in less then 24 hours my betta seems better 
http://network.bestfriends.org/grou...06/23/preventing-and-treating-columnaris.aspx
again i hope this helps and goodluck!


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Thank you so much for the article! It gave me a lot of information. However, I do still have one question. The article made mention of cleaning and sterilizing the tank, and also mentioned a "hospital tank". I live in a small apartment and space to set up a third tank is pretty much nonexistent. Can I put him temporarily back in his original plastic critter carrier for the short term, just so I can get his tank cleaned out? I've noticed that whenever I do a water change lots of gunk floats up from the bottom. I'm afraid I'll never get the tank clean enough unless I can empty it completely. Have I gone mad? Is there a better way to improve the water quality?

While I was at the pet store I also bought two very small filters, one for each tank. The article said that it might be a good idea. If I have the filter, do I have to completely change the water?

Any thoughts on how to best go about making his water more liveable? I'm open to just about anything. Oh, and I DID get the Maracyn.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

What's going on?? I did a water change last night and was congratulating myself because the water looked so much better. When I tested it this morning, the pH was down (6.6) and the ammonia was up (.5ppm). Why?? I treated the water before I put it in the tank. 

The little guy is still with us, but I'm kind of panicking because nothing I've done seems to help. There's Maracyn in the tank, and I've put a small bubbler in there to keep the oxygen up (without the filter cartridge). I also added some aquarium salt (after I tested the water).

What am I doing wrong? Is there still hope for Peanut Butter?

Signed,
Really, Really Anxious


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Four days of Maracyn hasn't really done anything. The pH in the tank is fine now, but Peanut Butter is just sitting on the bottom of the tank. I keep thinking he's already left me, but every time I nudge him to see if he's still with us, he darts away. I don't think he's eating anything.

I'm panicking. What next??

Help!:BIGsad::BIGsad:


----------



## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

It looks to me like columnaris. How long are you supposed to use the maracyn?


----------



## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Looking back at the other posts, you were using Furan. Did you switch to the Maracyn combo?

And as for cleaning the tank, have you vaccumed the gravel each time? There are little syphons that are used to get the gunk out of the gravel while removing the water.

As for the new filters, have you put them in the tanks yet? Asking bc any charcoal in the filter pads will basically cancel out your meds. while treating.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Maracyn combo? oh, dear. I've only been using Maracyn 1. As far as cleaning the gravel, I don't have a siphon thingie, but I've been doing the best I can with a baster. I imagine that's probably not enough. I HAVE been trying to suck up as much of the water from the bottom as I can so I can get a lot of the gunk out.

I put the filter into Jelly's bubbler, but I left it out of Peanut Butter's because I did read that the filter removes any meds I might put into the tank. It's just bubbling away with no filter in it.

Poor Peanut Butter is still sitting on the bottom of the tank. Half the time I can't even find him. I don't think he's eating anything. Should I get the Maracyn 2? I've already done 5 days of Maracyn 1. Is there any hope for our darling little Peanut Butter?

The more I learn, the more I realize I know so little. I just want him to recover. Chances?


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I hope someone sees this and can figure it out......

I got a gravel vacuum and have been doing daily water changes. I've been testing the water, and for some reason the pH is dropping. It was around 6.6 this morning and now it's 6.4. I've been adding pH Up a little bit at a time, but it doesn't seem to be helping. The ammonia levels have also been going up and down. The only things that seem to be consistent are the nitrate and the nitrite. What in the world is going on????? I treat the water before I put it in the tank. What am I doing wrong?

I consider every day that he's still with us a triumph, but I don't know how much longer he can last. He's just sitting on the bottom of the tank, and I swear he's shrinking.

What am I to do? Does he still have a fighting chance?


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

First off, don't mess with the PH. If it's changing gradually, that's okay. Trying to change it back will do way more harm then good.

Keep in mind that you might be getting an ammonia reading with Ammo lock in the tank. It doesn't remove ammonia, it just detoxifies it, which is one of the problems with using it. Ammonia comes from fish 'poo'. You will never be rid of it. That's why you do frequent water changes. You have to monitor for ammonia and nitrites and when they're present, change the water until they're gone. 

With a sick fish I would try finishing the med course while using ammo lock. After that keep his water as clean as possible. Monitor often and change the water until no ammonia or nitrite is present. Don't rely on Ammo lock long term once his meds are done. Clean water is the way to go. Read up on cycling and you'll be good to go I hope. Hope this helps.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Thank you so much for your input. The thing that is frustrating me the most is that I seem to have ammonia in my tap water, so I'm having a hard time figuring out what's actually going on inside the tank. I'm using the Ammo-Lock because I can't seem to get anything else around here. I'm not sure why the pH is fluctuating the way it is.

Poor Peanut Butter hasn't eaten in quite a while. I'm not sure what's keeping him alive, but whatever it is, I'm grateful for it. It's probably you guys. I'm learning a lot about Betta fish from this whole experience.

Keep Peanut Butter in you good thoughts. He needs all the positive energy he can get.

Do you think I can still save him?


----------



## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I think you could save him. I'm by no means an expert. I have one fish with a persistant problem that I can't seem to fix so I know what you're going through. If you can find Prime water conditioner online, get it. It's good for removing ammonia from your tap water and nitrate too. We have a nitrate reading here in NJ in our tap of 5.

My fish that has bloody fins, I change his water 30-50 percent 3x a week (his tank is cycled). I'm not sure what's going on with him but I can see he's not getting any better. I'm at a loss too. I finished two med courses of antibiotics (maracyn plus) and it did nothing. Sometimes you just have to finish the meds, keep the water very clean and hope for the best. 

I'll send him some good vibes. You COULD try the maracyn 1 and 2 combo. You can get them online too, if you can't find them locally. Good luck. I hope it works out.


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm not giving up. We've come too far and he's still here. Where there's life, there's hope.

Keep sending those good vibes!


----------



## Frizandi (Nov 26, 2007)

Latest photos, I don't think the Maracyn is doing anything.........I'll try to get Maracyn 2 ASAP. The Petland near me doesn't have it in stock at the moment.:-( :-( :-( :-(

Any ideas?


----------



## brittney0430 (Mar 12, 2011)

So your saying he is floating and when he tries to swim down, he involuntarily goes up again?


----------



## brittney0430 (Mar 12, 2011)

I would try anything you got for now. Try not to stress him with all the changes and chemicals.

It could be either True Fungus or Body Fungus

True Fungus signs:
Whitish tufts of cotton-like material found on the fin, tail, and/or body

Body Fungus signs:
Grey-ish white stingy material covering most of the body- white or grey patches.

To treat True Fungus use:
MarOxy, AND THEN either Maracyn 1 or Maracyn 2 to treat secondary infections

To treat Body Fungus use:
Maracyn 1 

HOPE THIS HELPS!


----------



## FuulieQ (Jan 10, 2010)

I am no expert, but could that be columnaris?

It's weird, I would think that the Maracyn would have helped...


----------

