# Please help! Betta going to explode and die!!



## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Hello all! I am really worried and would greatly appreciate any kindof advice on the subject. My fish has been bloated for about 2 weeks now and it keeps getting bigger and bigger although he still eats and poops. He is swimming slower than usual but I assume its because he is so uncomfortable. Im going out of town for 4 days and I have the feeling the bloat will have crushed his organs and killed him by the time I get back. Ive been treating with epsom salt but it keeps getting bigger. Im watching for pineconing but thankfully it hasn't gotten to that point yet. I can't really get a good picture because he faces the camera when I try and flicks away everytime I try to snap a picture blurring it. I love my fish and I dont want to kill him! I got him to save him from his tiny cup at walmart and now I feel like Im killing him! :'(

I think his bloat must be because of either *internal parasites or internal bacterial infection* judging from his poo. I treated him with 2-3 tsp/ gallon (8 when discounting decorations and gravel) epsom salt dissolved in treated water every day for the past week and it made him poo within two hours the first day.

Ever since day one I have had pest problems that may be contributing to his health issues. I brought home a live plant from Petco (bad idea!) and introduced all sorts of critters to his tank. I have found and removed a single very small snail. I had an outbreak of *freeliving worms that wriggle in an S shape* when in the open water a couple months ago. They hungout just above the surface of the water on the glass. This is how I first noticed them. Stanley likes to search for them in the gravel and happily slurps them up like spagetti when i point one out to him. I have since used a gravel vacuum for pwcs and they have greatly reduced in number. I only see one every now and then. A couple weeks ago I noticed *daphnia* looking creatures crawling all over the glass. They were white specks with very short pointy tails on one end. They have since subsided greatly as well. Just yesterday though, I noticed what seemed to be *planaria* (not many) on the glass. They were shorter than the other worms and seemed flatter as well. I dont know if maybe him eating these little daphnia and worms could have infected his tummy or not.

There has also been a recent *bacterial bloom* (i think) *or algae bloom*. There is white cobweb like stuff growing all over the glass and decorations even after taking them out and rinsing and scrubbing with hot tap water. It breaks apart very easily when i move the water much such as during water changes. It turns brownish in color and to a thick slime when removed from the water. Maybe this has made him sick? His symptoms showed up right around when this bloom started.

Here are my stats:

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10g
What temperature is your tank? 82 F
Does your tank have a filter? yes aqueon
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? not installed waiting on gang valve.
Is your tank heated? yes 
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none other than pests

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? aqueon mini betta pellets and aqueon FD bloodworms on very rare occassions
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day. Normally around 6 mini pellets. 

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? weekly
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 30-40%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Aq salt 1/2 tsp/g & stress coat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:<.25
Nitrite:<.25
Nitrate:0
pH: 7.7
Hardness: Hard
Alkalinity: cant remember

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? *Very *bloated
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? not much. slower. seems stressed. it might just be in my head but i feel like he looks at me through the glass like "PLEASEEEE help me! Don't just stand there and stare at me!"
When did you start noticing the symptoms? two-three weeks ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? yes epsom salt 
Does your fish have any history of being ill? other than curled scraggly and holey fins, no
How old is your fish (approximately)? <1 year Ive had him for about 3 months and bought him from Walmart so that plus however old they are when given to the stores.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Do you have a picture of him?

Maybe he is eating too many of those creatures you have in the tank? I don't think they are harmful - my sisters overstocked goldfish tank has hair like worms that surface whenever i clean the gravel and planteria as well.


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## Mahachai (Sep 15, 2012)

6 pellets is a lot for a betta. 2-3 pellets should sustain him for a day. I believe he is enduring constipation. Put him a clean quarantine tank and let him be without food for several days and change his water daily. You can start giving him pellet size peas and slowly get him back to his regular food. I also think you should get rid of the worms from your tank and treat it with parasite preventives like Rid Ich.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I depends on the size of the pellet. Some are quite small.



> What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Aq salt 1/2 tsp/g & stress coat


are you using epsom or aquarium salt? the paragraph said epsom but that says AQ salt. you should be using *epsom* for bloating/parasites. You can use up to 3 teaspoons per gallon but you need to slowly work up to that amount. Start with 1 teaspoon/gallon then 12 hours later do a 100% water change and replace with 2 teaspoons - 12 hours after that do it again and replace with 3 teaspoons a gallon. Its easier to do this in a smaller tank or storage container as you should be doing 100% WC's every day for the length of treatment. Premix the salt and water and make sure its disolved before adding the fish. Do not feed him while doing the treatment.

isnt daphnia supposed to be good for bloating?

Keep an eye on his poo. If its white and stringy that indicates internal parasites

it could also be a tumor..?


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> are you using epsom or aquarium salt? the paragraph said epsom but that says AQ salt.


Ive been using both. Aq salt as a disease preventative and epsom for bloat. I have stopped using aq salt though because Ive been told it is bad for bettas fins? Also if I don't feed him while doing the treatment wont he die? Ive been told to treat for 10-12 days.



> isnt daphnia supposed to be good for bloating?


I have no idea...



> Keep an eye on his poo. If its white and stringy that indicates internal parasites


It is sometimes brownish orange and sometimes it is brownish orange bits connected by white stringy sections and other times its just white.



> it could also be a tumor..?


Ive been told this as well. Ill post a picture. It looks to be pretty even on both sides of his body so Im not sure. I just got back in town from a 3 day camping trip and he is HUGE now!!! I don't know how he's alive. His belly really looks ready to pop. :'(


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Mahachai said:


> 6 pellets is a lot for a betta. 2-3 pellets should sustain him for a day. I believe he is enduring constipation. Put him a clean quarantine tank and let him be without food for several days and change his water daily. You can start giving him pellet size peas and slowly get him back to his regular food. I also think you should get rid of the worms from your tank and treat it with parasite preventives like Rid Ich.


Well there are large betta pellets and small betta pellets. I give him the tiny ones. When I use the big ones I only give him 2-3 a day. I just fed him half of a cooked pea hoping it will act as a laxative to give him some relief. I have Mardel coppersafe to treat ich velvet and other *external* parasites. This does not seem to be his problem though. He would be suffering from internal parasites if any at all. How should I "get rid of the worms from my tank"? I have been trying to keep it clean to get rid of them but it hasn't worked.


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## RoxieStClaire (Aug 24, 2012)

Ooof, you don't want him to explode. My sister's fish exploded when I had to watch it a few years ago, and it wasn't pretty....

I suggest that since his poo does look white and stringy to just go ahead and buy an anti-parasite med like API General cure asap and put that in his water since it treats both internal and external parasites. I just used that on my new betta with them and it started working during the very first dose. 

Hope he doesn't explode!


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## Greekalphabet (Sep 30, 2012)

I just read something about "mystery bloat" on another site. It's where the betta looks like a tumor is growing only where his belly is and doesn't affect other parts of his body the way that bloat does, which involves the whole body. They act normally until the end...just look really uncomfotable. You might want to do a google search on it. I have a fish that's bloating now to and it is sure is hard to watch, so you have my sympathies.


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## toad (Jul 17, 2012)

I've been told by members of this site that peas can be damaging to the digestive tract and should not be fed to these fish.

I suggest you PM OldFishLady and ask her opinion on your little guy :/ I hope he will be okay!


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Here are some pictures from tonight. Poor fishy.


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## toad (Jul 17, 2012)

I can't see your pics


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Here are some pictures. Hope they work this time. Poor fishy :'(


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## toad (Jul 17, 2012)

Oh My  I've never seen anything like that.

I messaged OFL - hopefully she can tell you what to do for him!

*sending healing energy to your fishy*


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah... It has gotten really really bad. Thank you so much for messaging her for me. I'm pretty new to the world of forums so I don't much know what I'm doing. I'm just desperately trying to save my precious little Stanley Fish. <3 Thankyou for your support.


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

dont feed him any more... usually at the first sign of bloadt, you should stop feeding him until he is no longer bloated...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry your Betta isn't well.....

It could be either a tumor, fatty liver or kidney related due to the long term aquarium salt use, Sadly, none are treatable/curable, however, you can ease the symptoms.

Since he is overall acting okay, eating, swimming and responding to you and not having any buoyancy problems-What I would recommend is treating him in a 1-2 gal unfiltered tank with Epsom salt 3tsp/gal (_Not aquarium salt_) and tannins.

Using a cup of dechlorinated water add the proper amount of Epsom salt 3tsp/gal-Dissolve and slowly add this to the 1-2gal tank you have him in for treatment. He needs to stay in the smaller unfiltered tank in the Epsom salt and tannins for the durations. Add a tannin source of either IAL or dried Oak leaf to the tank too.

Then premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water to use for 50% water changes every other day.

Premixed treatment water-Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and tannin source IAL (_1 lrg crushed/gal_) or Oak leaf (_20 crushed/gal_)

Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals and if you have access to live mosquito larva-offer several rinsed a couple of times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response.

Keep us posted....


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Sorry your Betta isn't well.....
> 
> It could be either a tumor, fatty liver or kidney related due to the long term aquarium salt use, Sadly, none are treatable/curable, however, you can ease the symptoms.


So there is no way it could just be an infection or parasites? ((



> Since he is overall acting okay, eating, swimming and responding to you and not having any buoyancy problems-What I would recommend is treating him in a 1-2 gal unfiltered tank with Epsom salt 3tsp/gal (_Not aquarium salt_) and tannins.


Since I went out of town 4 days ago he has grown a lot and become very lethargic. He still responds to me but doesn't leave his betta leaf hammock much at all. 



> Using a cup of dechlorinated water add the proper amount of Epsom salt 3tsp/gal-Dissolve and slowly add this to the 1-2gal tank you have him in for treatment. He needs to stay in the smaller unfiltered tank in the Epsom salt and tannins for the durations. Add a tannin source of either IAL or dried Oak leaf to the tank too.


I have a 1/2 gallon tank, will that be okay? Also, where do I find tannins? I have a Petco and PetSupermarket near me. There are no fish/aquarium stores in my city though.



> Nutrition-good quality varied diet fed in small frequent meals and if you have access to live mosquito larva-offer several rinsed a couple of times a day to boost protein intake to support the immune response.


Any idea where I can buy these? Should I not give him any peas or pellets? How long do you think he has to live if it is a tumor or organ problem? :'(


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## SpookyTooth (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry your betta is poorly. While I can't offer any good advice regarding how to treat him I just wanted to give you some information regarding the microorganisms you're encountering.

There are numerous types of worms that can show up in an aquarium but from your description they are either *planaria *or *detritus worms*.

*Planaria* are a species of flatworm, they are thicker than detritus worms with an arrow shaped head. They are also believed to be omnivorous. These guys usually come in on plants and can be removed manually.

*Detritus worms* are often confused with planaria; they are thin hair-like worms that can be seen crawling up the aquarium glass or swimming through the water in "S" motions. They can range from very short to surprisingly long (sometimes up to 2 cm). Their purpose in an aquarium is to help the breakdown of mulm in the substrate. They are completely and utterly natural in an aquarium system but populations can explode due to one of three things: 1) a dirty environment 2) a newly cycled aquarium 3) new live plants. They can be removed manually and through regular siphoning of the aquarium substrate + water changes.

The other organisms you've spied may be one of a few things:

*Cyclops* look like a single teardrop shaped blob with a forked tail, they can dart through the water or crawl across the glass. They average a couple of millimetres in length from head to tail.

*Daphnia* are also known as water fleas and look just like fleas. They dart through the water. They can vary quite dramatically in size but usually average a couple of millimetres in length.

*Seed shrimp* swim like drunken bees through the water and can be surprisingly large, they range in colours from yellow to green. They can be up to a cm long.

*Copepods* are absolutely miniscule organisms that look simply like moving dots, they can swim through the water or be seen in huge numbers moving across the aquarium glass.

All of these things are natural in an aquarium and if you can't ever see any of them there may actually be something wrong but of course population explosions can be frustrating. They are all harmless and can be removed through extra water changes and gravel siphoning.

This website helped me a great deal when I experienced microfauna:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Half gallon will be fine to use for treatment.

Tannins-I use naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf from my Oak trees in my yard-Usually you have to get IAL online.

I collect live mosquito larva in my yard that I find in standing water-I scoop them out using a brine shrimp net or fine meshed net-Rinse under running water and feed.

I wouldn't fast any longer than 24h-Fish always have internal parasites that they normally shed/pass on a regular bases to keep controlled so not to become problematic/symptomatic and by holding food for too long it can limit their ability to pass them-Also, the immune response helps to keep them from being symptomatic and without proper nutrition it can compromise the immune response. Some parasites can't complete their life cycle in the aquarium setting too.

Some Long fin males can get overly stress in larger tanks with filtration over time. The long fin males are man-made with abnormally long heavy fins and with some they struggle carrying the weight of these abnormal long heavy fins and this in turn can stress them and this can compromise the immune response.
Not all Long fin males have these issues-a lot is also based on genetics/breeding, as well as age can also be a factor.

***SpookyTooth...great info and I agree...


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

UPDATE: Stanley is still not doing any better. His stomach is grossly swollen and white from being stretched. He still shows interest in me, his surroundings and food (although i have barely been feeding him since it got this serious). I have no seen him poop in a day or two but I am also not around that often to watch him closely. I think I might want to start internal parasite or internal infection medication but I do not want to medicate without being sure of the problem.... :/ I still have not used tannins because I have very little spare time and have not had a chance to go oak tree hunting. OLDFISHLADY, what type of oak leaf am I to use. I mentioned this method to my mom to see if we had a tree and she said there are many kinds of oak so I should make sure it is the right kind before I use it on my delicate little fish.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

i was wondering if you was doing 3 tsp/gall of the epsom salt with every other day water changes?
I would feed him and also see what color and shape his poop. If you take gravel out of his tank it will be easier for you to see his poop . A lot of time if he would have internal parasites he will have white, clear stringy wormy like poo or brownish with clear ends. 

I hope he will get better, but next time if you will decide to rescue another betta don't use salt on regular basis it not prevent from anything but do more damage to the kidneys and it will make his immune system resistant to the salt when you need to use it. 
Also i think if he is eating you should keep feeding him. But 6 pellets ,i think you wrote that you fed him before, too much to consume in one time. Usually it really better to pleat and feed 2-3 x 2 times a day. So i think you can start feeding him one pellet in the morning and one at night and keep give him daphnia.

I am wondering if it can be tumor since he is not getting lethargic and his poo is normal? Not sure if it would be internal parasites or internal bacteria he probably would be more lethargic? Not sure how long it usually takes those symptoms onset.


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Sadly, he may not get better-especially if it is a tumor, fatty liver or other internal issues. Sometimes all we can do is ease the symptoms and if the Betta seems to be suffering we need to do what is right by them.

Oak leaves-I use about 6 different species from the native Oak trees in my area without issue-The only difference I have seen with the different species-is the color of the tannins-all seem to work the same.

Did you find any live mosquito larva...

To understand-he has a change in behavior now-He is no longer responsive to you, stopped eating and more lethargic-correct...
Any buoyancy issues and you have him in the half gallon unfiltered tank in Epsom salt 3tsp/gal-temp in the 76-78F range and changing the water with premixed Epsom salt water every other day 50% correct.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

;3;
this is the same thing that happened to my Cup. he got better, after nearly a month, but then couldn't swim at all, and just got worse and worse until he finally passes away.
sadly, i agree with OFL on this one. make him as comfortable as you can.


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Oldfishlady said:


> Did you find any live mosquito larva...


No, but I bought frozen brine shrimp. Ive done some research and found that carnivore feed such as brine shrimp or daphnia are almost all water unlike pellets and will help a bloated fish pass whatever is stopping him up.

I saw him poop today. It was long (~1 inch) and brown with white on the end and hung from him by some sort of string like thing that I couldn't see even with a flashlight and my 20/20 vision. Maybe he ate a hair of mine that got in his tank? Doubtful though. 

I fed him the thawed frozen brine shrimp this afternoon. He gobbled it up happily and searched the bottom of his tank for more for an additional 10 minutes. I gave him as much as about half the size of a pea. I assumed that would be okay since the shrimp wont swell in his belly like pellets do.



> To understand-he has a change in behavior now-He is no longer responsive to you, stopped eating and more lethargic-correct...
> Any buoyancy issues and you have him in the half gallon unfiltered tank in Epsom salt 3tsp/gal-temp in the 76-78F range and changing the water with premixed Epsom salt water every other day 50% correct.


The change in behavior is very slight. He is a bit more lethargic aka slower movement and more relaxing on his hammock. He still moves around his tank with no issues. He doesn't seem to be having any swim bladder problems yet. He easily changes depths. He is still just as responsive to me as always.

I have been changing 50% of his half gallon QT every day (except yesterday) using gallon jugs of conditioned water treated with 3 tsp magnesium sulfate each. He does not have a heater in his QT but the temp stays around 76-78f without it. Does it sound like Im going about this the right way? Also, I don't think it is a tumor because it came out of nowhere, his poo isnt the normal cinnamon bun shape, and he has had bloating problems before. I think he may have parasites because of the poo I saw this morning.


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

i am wondering if he might have internal parasites?


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

White fecal matter doesn't always mean internal parasites-it can also mean stress, food changes, chemicals. The absents of white fecal matter isn't always of sign of the absents of internal parasites either. Not all internal parasites cause white, stringy fecal matter.

Fish always have parasites-their immune response and regular shedding of the parasites help to keep them controlled and asymptomatic. Since we keep our Betta in a closed system it is our job to keep them controlled by making regular water changes and providing proper nutrition.

The behavior you describe sounds like normal male Betta behavior to me.


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## Greekalphabet (Sep 30, 2012)

How is your fish doing?


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Hello Greekalphabet! Thanks for your concern. My little Stanley is still in his half gallon QT. He has been getting 50%+ water changes daily, sometimes skipping a day when I do not have time. His water is a solution of Stress Coat, 3tsp/gal MgSO4 (epsom salt), ~15-20 crushed oak leaves/gal, and ~1/20 tablet parasite guard every other day, sometimes going 2 days between doses. 

He has not shown much change of any kind. He just seems bored in his tiny little tank. I feel bad because I want him to be happy but I dont want to put him in the NOW community tank where he will be stressed by the new fish and the quick swimming of the corys. I hope my molly doesn't see the tank as his domain now and pick on my betta when I put him back in there. Maybe I should remove the molly first? I just dont know. This is slightly irrelevant anyway because I still don't know if my betta will recover. 

He had a long poop today and still looked like a very thing string( like a hair ) with feces on it. I cannot figure out why it looks that way. I just hope the parasite guard is working. His stomach hasnt been getting bigger from what I can tell. I may just be getting used to it. It isn't shrinking any at all either. Any ideas anyone? OFL?


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

what color his poo is?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

it's stated above....long stingy and white at the end


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Well there still has been no change... His poop doesn't seem to be as stringy as before so thats good but his belly has not gone down in size at all. I am wondering if I can put him back in the 10g with my other fish since he isn't acting sickly. He has got to be sooo bored in the tiny 1/2 g tank. Im going to discontinue using any medication as it hasnt seemed to do much good. I just don't want him to get picked on by my female dalmation molly since he is small slow and probably in a weak state. I just want him to enjoy the rest of his life, however long that may be. I dont think he is enjoying his tiny unfurbished qt very much. Its been a month now...


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Give the molly away? D:


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

Well i put him in the 10g so he could have a heated tank. Stan and Molly (creative right?  ) don't seem to have an interest in eachother whatsoever. When i first put him in there he explored an eventually found one of my ghost shrimp. He must have found it captivating because he followed it around the entire tank. The next day the biggest ghost shrimp was following him around! Trying to grab his tail. Stanley eventually had enough of that and scared the shrimp away. They havent really interacted at all since. But all seems to be going well. i will be doing a large water change with my gravel vaccum tomorrow. That dang molly puts out as much ammonia as a goldfish!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I am glad he is doing good. Just watch ghost shrimp and Stanley, if he follow him one time it can happen again though


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## CTBettaLover (Jul 23, 2012)

As an update, stanley is now in his own foresty 5g heated and filtered tank with a big decorative pot cave and a sunken liberty bell lookin cave. Although he maintains a moderate bloat he is very happy. I put the shrimpies in with him and they are getting along swimmingly ;]. lol. Stanley sometimes pigs out on the sinking pellets i drop in there for the shrimp and gets a large belly and whatseems like a bell'y ache. He gets fed a pea, it all moves along, and he is happy again.

My community tank has 5 female bettas 3 cories and 1 dalmation molly( who I love but will have to return bc she wants brackish water which my cories cant tolerate ). All is well.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Awesome , thank you for update i was wondering how he is doing. I also saw another post when betta is extremely bloated just like yours. Good to know he is happy, you doing good job!


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