# Ok.. its time. School me on Breeding/Genetics



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

At the betta show my Mom bought a beautiful Multicolor HM male. When an multicolor HM female came up for auction everyone at the show wanted us to breed them so much that no one bid on her just so we would take her (just one of the many reasons why I love betta people.. they're not greedy.. they want everyone to make more fish LOL).

I said "Maybe I'll breed them".. but all day yesterday my Mom has been talking about breeding this pair (I think she's addicted now LOL). So it looks like this summer I'll be doing my first spawn ever!

Now onto my millions of questions. (I'll try to make it as organized as possible).

1. What do you think is a suitable size for a grow out tank? I'm thinking a 20 or 29. 
2. Could we divide the fry into two or three 10 gallon tanks to grow out? (If that would save money)

3. What's your opinion on water level? I've heard low and full.. are there any advantages/disadvantages to each?

4.What plants do you use in your spawning tank? I'm definitely going to get java moss but are there any other good ones?
5. What temperature do you keep the spawning and grow out tanks?

6. Give me a list of the foods you feed.. both for conditioning and for the fry. I'm going to try to do BBS and micro worms for the fry but if there are others you've had success with I'd like to hear them.

7. Do you light the spawning/fry tanks or leave them unlighted? Any advantages/disadvantages to each?

Ok.. now genetics.. this is where I'm really a newbie.. I have no clue what to expect. The pair is a multicolor HM. They both have lots of reds and purples. I don't have the pedigrees for either and they came from separate breeders so I know they're not sibs.

Any ideas as to what we can expect from the fry color wise? Is there any chance we'll get some that look like Daddy? (I know some people that really want one just like him)

I'll get some good pictures of the both of them tonight so you can see their colors better. There are pictures of them in my Betta Show thread in the pictures (they'll be the last two fish on the OP).

If we actually do this spawning a lot of the work will be done by my mom. I don't have room for jars or a grow out tank at my dorm so we'll be setting up something at home. She'll be the one feeding the fry and doing the water changes when they're jarred (I'll be back in school by then). Any fish we sell will be split 50/50 between us since I own the female and she owns the male.


Whew.. sorry for the long post. I'm super excited about this and I want to have all my bases covered so we can spawn ASAP (hopefully around june).

Thanks :-D


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

1. I would recommend using a 20gal or bigger to spawn in, I like 20gal talls better, because the High's just look too odd to me. But, whatever floats your boat.

2. Yeah, you could, but it would seem more efficient and cheaper to use a bigger tank.

3. I recommend using a lower amount, about 4-6 inches, for any size tank. I have been seeing my fry have trouble to swim to the surface when the water level was higher, so I had to lower it a little. 

4. Java Moss, Java fern, Anubis, Banana Lilies, Hornwart, pretty much most plants are good for fry. But make sure the plants fit the tanks settings, you don't want cold water plant in at 80+ f.

5. I have my tanks without fry set to 80 f and my fry tank set to 82-84 f, and I have heard that too high a temperature will make the developmental process of the fry. 

6. For the fry am alternating between microworms, bananaworms, and walterworms for now. But you can use grindal worms, and vinegar eels as well. I wouldn't recommend using JUST BBS for feeding them, because after 24 hrs they loose most of their nutritional value, and become a filler. For conditioning, I would use a high quality pellet, one that has fish meal, shrimp meal, or something along those lines FIRST on the ingredient list. If it doesn't have those first, then it is most likely most fillers. Also, use frozen (but thaw it first) blood worms, or freeze dried blood worms.

7. I keep mine lighted, but I haven't really heard of anyone not lighting them, so I wouldn't know. But I think it would cause stress when they are older, because they were raised without lights, and then having them on right above them...

I actually wouldn't know too much about the possible outcome without seeing some pictures. Sorry.

BTW, sounds like you have an epic pair


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Whats the difference between a 20gallon tall and a 20 gallon high? I thought they were the same thing. I'll definitely be getting a lot of different foods to feed the fry.

I'll be getting pics tonight. Of course I think they are gorgeous LOL. I finally got the male to flare and I about fainted he was so pretty. He has a very full caudal.. the biggest of all 4 HM males I have.

There are some not so good pics of them here..http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=42174 The pair are the last two fish pictured. Not the best pictures and the fish were stressed from being at the show all day and being packed and moved so I'll be getting better pics of them tonight.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't wait for pics!!


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## Zenandra (Nov 14, 2009)

I had this whole thing types up! and then my internet crashed! Haha I am not retyping it right now! I agree with what sweetnspicy said! Her advice is spot on IMO. With feeding I feed microworms for the first week then I alternate between vinegar eels and bbs until the babies are big enough to eat pellets and bloodworms. 

As for genetics, I said a lot in the other post! I do think that you'll get a good number of fry that look similar to daddy!! Good luck and post lots of pictures!!


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

A 20gal long is the longer tanks, I know my gecko has one, and it is probably 2 1/2ft. It is pretty close in height to a 10gal. And, the highs are higher, lmao. I will see if I can get some pics uploaded if you want to see, to compare them. I got mine in a set, for christmas, with a heater, filter, and hood and all, for i think $100-$150. 

I saw that post, and I am SO jealous of you! The nearest Betta club to me is in Georgia as well. The male looks similar to a few I saw before. female is too hard to tell with the stress stripes, but she should color up soon. 

Thanks Zenandra 
I hate when stuff like that happens.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah she colored up as soon as I got her into a nice 1 gallon jar (temporary). She has the same bluish/purple and red like the male.. just not as vibrant. I'll be dividing a 10 gallon tank for them this week so for now they're all in 1 gallons.

Didn't get pictures tonight.. roomie wanted to celebrate the last day of classes. I'll be getting some of him flaring tomorrow and of her so you can get a good idea. 

If I get at least a couple good males that look like Daddy I'll be happy. I know at least one person really wants one like him


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

I hope it all works out for you!
I know for sure I would look into buying a pair or two from you because I would love to broaden my pallet along the lines of coloring. Just having blue marbles and coppers will get old for me soon, I can already tell.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Bump: Would anyone else like to share their techniques?

Also.. here are some better pictures of the pair. 

Male: (I've named him Sid Vicious)
Without flash:
(not a full flare.. he is definitely an HM and not a delta)









With Flash: (sorry bout the glare.. this was the best I could get)









I have more but I'll put them up in a picture thread in a few days so I don't clog this thread.

Now the girl (She's named Nancy (as in Sid and Nancy))
The pictures don't do her justice. She has very vibrant purples and reds that are washed out in all the pictures. With flash she looks blueish.

















According to Zenandra I'm going to get a bunch of different colors.. including marbles?


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

I am not sure about the marbles, unless either of your fishes dams or sires were marble. They are an awesome pair though!


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

And I don't know what their lineage is. I know the names of their breeders but I wouldn't know how to get in contact with them.

I feel very lucky.. they aren't even from the same breeder but they make a great pair! I'm interested to see what we'll get with them. I don't care too much about color but I hope we'll get some with Daddy's finage... he is perfect!


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

I have the same problem with my marble pair. Well, not as much as not knowing how to contact the breeder, as much as not really wanting to... I am so lazy! 

He is really nice! I love her coloring in the last picture, your pair are like they were made to go together haha. He has a really nice body, and nice ventrals, and the female's anal fin would compliment him nicely. She has a nice body as well


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

He's a 1st place fish so I knew he has something going on LOL. I'm so new at the breeding game that I still can't pick out the good from the bad when it comes to structure and fins.

I think the female is really nice. I wish I could get better pictures of her color. When she's not stressed its almost as dark as the male's. She's slightly more blue whereas he is more purple.

I'm so excited! I can't wait to try a spawn. I'm a little scared at the same time though.. I don't want anything to happen to the fish.

I have another question also.. what do you use to jar fry and where do you get them from?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I can't wqait for you to try a spawn. The babies will be beautiful.


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

Haha, I didn't either until I started to get REALLY into breeding betta. Just print out a few good pictures of betta, like and practice writing the anatomy they have down.

I agree with dq! Your spawn will come out great!

I have a mom and grandmother who LOVE to can food, because they both have huge gardens, and I am going to use some of their extra jars. But, not the little 6 oz ones, the biggest ones the make are about a gallon I think. You can also make a "holding pen" out of plastic canvas, I made one, and it took about a week to make, but it looks pretty good. Should suffice I guess.


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Can you put a picture of that up? I can't picture what your saying with the plastic canvass thing.

Someone on another forum gave me a link to people that sell plastic tubs.. they seem pretty cheap to me but I have to see how big they are.


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## bettalover2033 (Feb 17, 2010)

1fish2fish said:


> Bump: Would anyone else like to share their techniques?
> 
> Also.. here are some better pictures of the pair.
> 
> ...



"1fish2fish" i really would like for you to visit my post that i made i need premission from you read it then spread the word also tel my my answer i could really use your photos in my new website thank you!!!

here it is:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?p=378869#post378869:-D


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## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Actually I'm planning to set up my own site this summer to help sell my fry so I'm going to use my pictures. Sorry! Good luck with your site


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## SweetnSpicy (Sep 3, 2009)

1fish2fish said:


> Can you put a picture of that up? I can't picture what your saying with the plastic canvass thing.


I do not have a picture right now, but once I get one uploaded, I will show ya. It is the same material that you make the home made tank dividers out of, but set up in sections with either thread or aquarium sealant, which is what I used.


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