# Do We Give Our Fish Too Much Chemicals/Gluten?



## Purple (Jun 25, 2012)

When you think about it, we use A LOT of chemicals in fish tanks. Some of the following you might not use, or you could use others.


stress coat
medicines
pH adjusters
dechlorinator (some of which contain even MORE chemicals for brighter colors, bigger fins, clearer water... anything you can think of)
ammonia remover
algacides
water clarifiers
bacteria boosters

Also, most foods have gluten in them. If you didn't know, gluten can cause fatigue, weight gain/loss, neurological conditions, bloat, infertility, anemia, diarrhea, constipation, and it is believed to be linked to many other problems. (Granted, these problems are usually only this bad when someone has gluten sensitivity, but it's bad for you either way.) That's what it does to humans, and I can imagine that it could be worse for a carnivorous fish 1/1,000th of our size. Many people (including myself) are switching to gluten-free diets. Should this extend to our fish?

These days, people are all about "all natural", "organic", "healthy", and "green". Do we neglect that with our fish? Is it "different" in your mind? Do you think that the fish industry should offer more healthy alternatives?


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## megaredize (May 21, 2012)

thats why i dont use any of that but declorinator and my goldfish tank gets easy balance once a week after water change but thats it. water stays clear from filters. algae is fought with by hand lol which sucks


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## Ramble (Mar 13, 2012)

Yep..my algae remover is a scrubber attached to my hand :thumbsup:


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

All I use in my tanks is water conditioner and tap water. I will dose fertilisers in my planted tanks but whatever the plants are not using is removed by my water changes. 

Wheat is used in fish food generally to give the pellet shape/hold it together. In poor quality food it is unfortunately used as a filler along with other cheap ingredients. That is why it is so important to choose a high-quality food.

I used to have my splendens strictly on a frozen/live diet and they never looked as healthy as they do now I have them almost solely on pellets. Unless you can provide the varied diet (sort of like how the raw diet with dog needs correct ratios of things like organs and bones) they would get in the wild, I do believe they can suffer deficiencies as a lot of frozen and even live (brine shrimp springs to mind) foods are nutritionally poor. 

In the wild most bettas would be very lucky to see beyond a couple of years. Obviously all those chemicals and gluten are not doing them too badly if their life expectancy can be higher than 4-5 years in captivity.


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## Purple (Jun 25, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> In the wild most bettas would be very lucky to see beyond a couple of years. Obviously all those chemicals and gluten are not doing them too badly if their life expectancy can be higher than 4-5 years in captivity.


Following that argument, cavemen had shorter lives than we do today, but chemicals are still causing cancer and Alzheimer's among other things, and gluten is causing many people to have a dramatically worse quality of life.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

That's the problem though. If you are going to go 'all-natural' shouldn't you do things like have seasonal drought and flood periods, introduce the threat of predation by bigger fish and other animals, and let only those who prove themselves fittest and most dominant to survive? 

What is a natural diet for this wholly artificial species of fish? Betta splendens as we know them as so far removed from what their wild ancestors are that their needs are hardly the same. We have a fish that was completely manufactured by humans and that has been surviving and seemingly thriving on diets chock full of wheat and crummy by-products for generations now. Attison's Betta Pro which was I believe created by a betta breeder and highly commended on here is actually less than ideal when one looks at the ingredient content, yet it is capable of sustaining healthy bettas for years on end. 

I generally feel it is the over-use and misuse of antibiotics by large wholesalers and suppliers that causes more harm than the presence of wheat in food. Continued use of antibiotics can create resistant strains of disease and can certainly weaken the constitution of these fish. I don't understand the idea of medicating as a preventative, and I am often loath to chuck antibiotics at any fish without at least a plausible diagnosis. 

There are worse things that happen to bettas unfortunately, and unless an independent scientific study shows small amounts of wheat in betta food can cause serious health problems I wouldn't sweat it too much.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

Ok, odd question, but I believe that many wild betta's natural habitat is the paddy field, yes? I know rice is different than wheat, but it's still a plant. Since the bugs that are a natural part of the betta's diet may eat those rice plants/grain, and since betta are not known for carefully removing the stomach content of their prey, then we must imagine that wilds betta are ingesting at least a tiny bit of grain in their lives. Probably not anywhere near the amount in many commercial foods, but still a bit.

Also, lets not forget that unless that rice is being raised in an "organic" fashion, then the farmers are likely using all manner of fertilizer, pesticide, and heaven knows what else on their fields. Granted, I would guess many of these practices started happening after the betta splendens was already being hybridized into our domestic fish, but even before that time I can't imagine that life in a paddy field would be considered easy or safe.

JMHO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bettanewbie60 (Jun 26, 2012)

I just brought my first betta home yesterday, and am learning so much! I went wheat and grain free myself almost 3 months ago, for a lot of reasons, and I have never felt better in my life! When I went shopping for food for my betta I noticed wheat as the first ingredient in it! Of course, my wheat free self balked at the idea of a fish eating wheat, but being so new to this creature, I'm willing to trust those with more experience. I still would love to eliminate the wheat though!


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Ok, odd question, but I believe that many wild betta's natural habitat is the paddy field, yes? I know rice is different than wheat, but it's still a plant. Since the bugs that are a natural part of the betta's diet may eat those rice plants/grain, and since betta are not known for carefully removing the stomach content of their prey, then we must imagine that wilds betta are ingesting at least a tiny bit of grain in their lives. Probably not anywhere near the amount in many commercial foods, but still a bit.


There is a thing called bio-availability. Pre-digested plant matter from the guts of prey has already been "processed" and won't have the same issues as whole plant matter. This is the same as in the whole prey model for raw feeding cats and dogs. The gut contents is already processed, making it easy for the predator to actually make use of it, whereas if you just tossed a whole ear of corn down, neither dogs nor cats (or humans!) can actually digest it, making it nutritionally bankrupt.

It's a silly comparison because you are not comparing whole foods to whole foods, but pre-digested, MINUTE, quantities of processed food to whole food. It is not remotely the same.


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## sparkyjoe (Feb 27, 2012)

styggian said:


> There is a thing called bio-availability. Pre-digested plant matter from the guts of prey has already been "processed" and won't have the same issues as whole plant matter. This is the same as in the whole prey model for raw feeding cats and dogs. The gut contents is already processed, making it easy for the predator to actually make use of it, whereas if you just tossed a whole ear of corn down, neither dogs nor cats (or humans!) can actually digest it, making it nutritionally bankrupt.
> 
> It's a silly comparison because you are not comparing whole foods to whole foods, but pre-digested, MINUTE, quantities of processed food to whole food. It is not remotely the same.


Um, ok, sorry my logic is so faulty and "silly"; I'm not a biologist or other type of scientist, just a simple pet lover. I would delete my post if I could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

sparkyjoe said:


> Um, ok, sorry my logic is so faulty and "silly"; I'm not a biologist or other type of scientist, just a simple pet lover. I would delete my post if I could.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't say you were dumb, I was just trying to clarify. I'm not a scientist either, I just read way too much stuff, I mainly learned this when researching cat food (which is why I don't buy anything with wheat or corn or gluten of either type, and only occasionally buy food with rice in it). Most people don't know. Biology class was a long time ago and never touched on bioavailability in food products. Many raw feeders do provide whole prey for the small amounts of extra nutrients from the gut contents of prey.

I'm sorry that my post upset you.


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## Silverfang (Mar 25, 2011)

a dechlorinator of some sort is necessary. Unless you want dead fish. And lets face it, on occasion meds will be needed. I prefer sticking to epsom/aquarium salt, depending on the situation. As for food... I feed my bettas 5 different kinds of food. 4 different pellets and frozen blood worms. Short of giving them a diet of bugs, it's the best I Can do for them nutrition wise.


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## styggian (Dec 13, 2011)

I try to avoid extra chemicals too. I treated ich with salt and warmer water instead of meds.


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## Purple (Jun 25, 2012)

The question isn't "Should we never use any of the listed chemicals?" it's more like "Should the fish food/tank mantinence industry offer safer/healthier alternatives?". I'm not advocating you throw out dechlorinators and kill your fish! Ha. 

Do you think that there would be a market for organic/safer fish food and chemicals? There's barely even a market for live/frozen foods. Most people don't properly take care of their fish. People like the ones on this forum are a small percentage, but we keep the frozen/live/freeze dried food companies in business (although most of them also make pellets/flakes), but would it be enough business to support a whole new type of chemicals?


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

No. 
There is not much point in holistic fish remedies. If you want to go holistic, pick up some Pimafix or Melafix and be amazed when it doesn't work.
Once you notice disease on your fish, and you are certain of what it is, don't waste your time with stuff like that, go full force on it. Once you can see something it's generally already in late stages.
Things like ich are fine treated with just warm water as they are not severe diseases.

With all holistic medication, there is a line. I have heard of too many children dying because of their parents stupid holistic ideas. 

Herbal medicine is a messy science, it can screw you up just as bad or even worse than prepared drugs. I'm sick of "herbal remedies" being thrown as a great idea. If it's serious get serious help. And with fish, what you see is often serious.

A garlic and honey syrup is great for your cold, but don't try to cure cancer yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Purple (Jun 25, 2012)

I have to agree with you about medicine. If my babies are sick, I don't care if they get fishie alzheimers or not, I'm going to give them what's best for treating them.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Purple said:


> When you think about it, we use A LOT of chemicals in fish tanks. Some of the following you might not use, or you could use others.
> 
> 
> stress coat
> ...


Most experienced aquarists only use one of those chemicals: dechlorinators. And only because we have to. We use none of the others because we understand that they do nothing for the fish. Some of those chemicals you listed are rather dangerous to the fish such as algacides and pH adjusters. Simply put, a good aquarists adds as little as possible to the tank aside from water. 

And on a note about gluten, as LBF said there have been no scientific studies done on the effects of gluten in small insectivore fishes like betta and gourami. While there are a lot of similarities between fish and humans, we can't jump to the conclusion that gluten is bad for them because it's bad for us. All we have is anecdotal evidence.


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## Nutt007 (Sep 22, 2009)

On the subject if chemicals, what would be the best water conditoner to use? I have always wondered what would be best. Also, how do you measure that stuff? I am always getting worried about having too much or too little. One capful per fifty gallons doesn't help fir some one who works with 2.5-10 gallons.


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## mursey (May 9, 2012)

I did the same thing at the pet store with the betta food as I do with my own food. I read the ingredients and put back the food that said "wheat flour" etc. . 

For my platys I bought 100% seaweed/algae rather than a package that had flour in it. I bought the bettas food that just says "blood worms" for the ingredients, etc. 

What does a fish need wheat flour and gluten for? I don't think bettas were making bread in the rice patties. 

I am going to look into frozen food when I visit my awesome aquarium and fish store. They spoil their bettas and I want to get some of the food they use. (No live food for fear of disease/parasites, but it does say they feed frozen. And they use almond leaf extract and everything, not for breeding, just for happiness of the fish!)


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Nutt007 said:


> On the subject if chemicals, what would be the best water conditoner to use? I have always wondered what would be best. Also, how do you measure that stuff? I am always getting worried about having too much or too little. One capful per fifty gallons doesn't help fir some one who works with 2.5-10 gallons.


Prime is usually the one most recommended. I use it with all of my tanks and will never use another. I use a syringe to dose the smaller tanks. It's .10 mL per gallon, and the easiest way to dose that is with a syringe.


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