# Old man and Electra spawn log~



## Punki

I was gonig to wait a full week but 5 days after the failed attempt Electra still remained barred and huge, and oldman was a bubblenesting fool. Since weve had tons of rain i LOADED them with larvae three times a day and did daily water changes all 5 days, i felt it would be okay to go ahead and give it a try day before yesterday, so at around 2pm on the 15th i introduced her and him into their 10 gallon heavily planted breeding tank, at about 6pm she was still being really submissive and even dropped an egg or two, and he had a nice nest going so i released her, after the initial chasing ended (a couple of hours) the flirting began, and that night i stayed up ALL night on the couch watching like a hawk but never once running up to interrupt or disturb them. Hed build, then find her in the plants and flare, if she flared back and wiggled hed be content and go back to his nest, shed sometimes go back with him, checking out his work, but when she wasnt satisfied shed swim back to her plants and hed get mad and nip her/chase her, but eventually it was too her liking, after being up staring at the aquarium forb a full 24 hours they started spawning, they couldnt get it right for quite a while and hed get mad, but eventually the eggs started flowing and being eaten, and THEN the eggs were being put into the nest by him and her, it was very sweet to see  but im glad i stayed up because after about 3 hours of spawning suddenly she grabbed his tail and he frantically swam the whole tank, dragging her behind him and after that he was mad, and she was biting at him/he started biting at her and neither ran, so i got her out right then and after checking the tank over he started tending to the eggs. Now tonight, 30 hours later hes moved his wole nest under a floating plant and if i watch closely the eggs wiggle so ill get some hatches tonight i think! So far hes being a good dad, i havent seen him eat many eggs and the ones he did eat looked a bit fuzzy today, im assuming thats why he moved the rest across the tank. Poor guys hungry though, i get the wiggle begging dance when i walk by. Soon, old man soon! Anyways heres a pic of daddy tending to the nest, if you look closely you can see the eggs 
Ive got my inforsia ready to go along with some in the tank already from the two snails i put in today and all the plants ive had in. Ill probobly let them feed/put that in for the first week then move onto bbs. Really excited to have little baby oldmans/electras, and so proud of him for being an old petstore veiltail and still being a great daddy! Electra is being spoiled rotten since shes got a few bitten fins but shes fine and not eggy lol, ive never seen her so thin  ill update this often with pics as soon as i can capture them


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## Sakura8

Congratulations to Electra and Old Man, they're about to be parents! Although I know I shouldn't, I couldn't help but laugh at the image of Old Man dragging a very determined Electra along behind him. She's a feisty one, all right. 

And congratulations, Punki, you did it! You successfully sat back and let them spawn.  You're going to be a betta mom soon!


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## Punki

when she got his tail i had such a rush of emotions, i was shocked, scared of her consequences of randomly doing such a thing in the middle of their sexytimes, and alittle amused because he was a bit rough and scary, and shes about as long as his TAIL, needless to say she did 0 damage to his tail even though she got dragged with the tip of it in her mouth across the tank XD he was like
"lalala putting the children eggys in my nest lalala"
and she was paralyzed and when her senses came back her face was next to his tail so it caught her eye flowing about and NIP then she held on as he frantically dragged her, and she looked like a fish on a hook, flopping around, but forgetting to let go XDDD needless to say that ended spawning XD
Thanks, i feel really accomplished to research, put it all together, and it work  Im really excited to see the little ones swim, eat, explore and play


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## Punki

And just after typing that^ i go look and hes repeatedly spitting an egg into the nest that keeps falling and then i see the egg wiggle back up on its own, i have a FRY!! AWW! YAY!


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## Sakura8

:welldone::thumbsup::welldone: Soo awesome! A little Old Man or Electra! It's so great they hatch quickly, not like having to wait months for kittens or something like that.


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## Punki

Yes  i have the tank at a steady 82 degrees which made them hatch asap
XD the fry lands on his head lmao


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## Sakura8

You definitely did your research and a very thorough job of it, too. You did great, Punki, just like an old pro at this.


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## Punki

Thanks, now the real fun begins, after they all hatch and freeswim its up to me XD


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## Sakura8

You can do it.  But it is really funny how Old Man flared at the camera. He's got to protect his kids from the paparazzi.


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## Punki

Hes always had a thing about the camera, as soon as he sees it he starts modeling, but now hes just modeling with a fry on his head loooking silly XD


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## Sakura8

How many fry are you planning on raising?


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## Punki

Well i carefully removed 1/4 of the eggs because they really had alot, if statistics are about right i should end up with around 30-40 if im lucky, the girls i plan to my grandma next door, she has a 20g and wants 10 of the girls since they are sisters they shouldnt become too aggressive if i never separate them. My husband has a couple of people at work interested in some males, my dad wants one, my sister wants a few girls and a male, her bf wants a male, my mom wants a male, any leftover girls if there are any ill sorority in a 10g and if theres any boys left my mom works at a nursing home and theres a few ladies interested there as well, the older lonely people would probably enjoy fish


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## Punki

lol its raining fry, poor oldman i hope he can make it till tomorrow night, then ill pamper him with a load of larvae and alittle aquarium salt and rest. Hes doing so well, he keeps picking them up and putting them back, havent caught him eating any yet.
Oh and by carefully removing i mean that i made this little "box, it was a water lid that id put mesh over, and i put it under his nest spot so when they spawned, some fell into it and they had so many more to catch it didnt phase them, and since the mesh and bottle top was white the eggs were a bit less visible so they never knew they were missing any, and when i removed her i carefully pulled it out, it had about 50 eggs in it.


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## Sakura8

Wow, little Old Mans and Electras are sure popular! Will your sister take good care of one, though? I recall she wasn't super sympathetic about Coraline . . .


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## Sakura8

I can picture him now. "This parenting thing must be a lot easier when you're younger. Dang younguns, stay where I put you, why don't you!" 'Course it's nice to have the guy do all the work for once, instead of like the human species.


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## Punki

I talked to her and everyone else about it, and she has since quit her job and is now living with her bf and going to college so shes got more time. But yeah i was conserned as well. But apparently her boyfriend has been wanting one and even looked at the cups many times but she refused, saying it was too much work that shed have to do, i guess being home more gives her time. I was lucky and got some tanks off craigslist so when she/my dad/my mom recieve theirs they will have a suitable tank with a baffled filter ready to go, and ill type up their water changes, they know ill be furious if they dont. The nurses at the nursing home were already told by my mom as well and i think they are planning 2g bowls with 2 weekly water changes. Its city water so i plan to explain prime and such beforehand also, ill end up typing a care sheet with all of them though, i dont want any of them being mistreated and while i can keep on my family about their care (even walk to their houses and make sure) i gotta make sure the nurses do their changes, but if they do as they say im happy at the thought of giving the old people some pretty fish to watch, i know having my two has done wonders for my depression/boredom.


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## Sakura8

It's good you can keep an eye on the ones you are giving your family. With luck, your sister will catch the betta bug and fall in love with her little betta and learn to treat him/her as well as you treat yours. And I totally agree about the fish bringing joy to people's lives. I had such social anxiety that I didn't talk to anyone and I hardly went anywhere before I got my betta; I even dropped out of college. Now I'm at the petstore all the time and I have betta buddies all over the world thanks to this forum. I still have a ways to go (being able to handle employment and driving would be nice) but I feel way more confident than I ever did before. And all thanks to a little fish.


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## Punki

Aw, im starting therapy the 27th for the sole purpose of finally pushing myself to drive, i have social anxiety as well, and i also tried to have a job once, i lasted 4 hours and had a nervous breakdown. We have alot in common


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## Sakura8

Yup, we sure do. I failed my driver's test twice (stupid mistakes like accidentally going over the curb while pulling out of the driveway) and I never had the guts to try a third time. Saved a fortune in car insurance anyway. :roll: But hey, we can do it. Our bettas need us to be able to go to the pet store for them, so we can learn to do these things. :-D


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## Punki

lol True, i am 28 with a toddler, who eventually will need rides to school, i must learn. Ive only had my learners permit but the thought of a person in the passengers seat judging my every move is scary~
Anyqays, make on topic, oldman is busy, catching 8-10 at a time and spitting them back up, they are white eggs with tails and two black dot eyes, so cool!


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## Sakura8

Old Man is tireless, what a devoted father.  He's going to be so hungry when the fry are freeswimming. And tired. Definitely tired.


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## Punki

Yes he deserves to be spoiled the rest of his days for this  Very proud of him, uploading a video now


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## Sakura8

How many days until the fry are freeswimming and the poor guy can take a break? I know next to nothing about betta breeding.


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## Punki

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=P1150029.mp4
Video 
I read 2-3 days for freeswimming, im just going to keep an eye on them and when they start going horizontal ill move him out and throw in some inforsias. I hate not feeding him though lol.


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## Sakura8

Poor guy, it looks like every time he returns one fry to the nest, two more fall out. He's like, "Got . . . to . . . rest . . ." 

How do you do water changes with the fry?


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## Punki

VERY carefully XD I plan to use an airline hose and carefully remove the water, but seeing their size i may just end up using a turkey baster for alittle while, right now they are okay and all the plants help so ill probobly add a bit of water to fill it to the top when they freeswim then work on removing some daily.
Yeah they fall faster ten he can keep up, poor old man! plus hes got two nests gonig now for some reason so he must swim back and forth.


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## bettaloverforever16

Can;t wait to see 'em


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## Sakura8

Old Man's probably about ready to hire a nanny to help him. I did read on a different post that it's okay if he doesn't put all the fry back in the nest since they don't breathe air right now. I think it was OFL who said that. 

I always wondered about the water change thing, especially seeing how deceptively easy it is to suck a full-grown betta up the siphon.


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## Punki

a pic of the ones hatched so far, i used a magnifying glass and then took the pic lol, off to bed i go, hope to see more tomorrow!


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## Sakura8

They're sooooo cute! So tiny! What a full day you've had, Punki.  Sleep well, new betta mom!


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## bettaloverforever16

SO cute!


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## diablo13

Aw, da wittle baby fishes! Nice job, Punki, Electra, and hang in there Oldman!


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## Sakura8

diablo13 said:


> Aw, da wittle baby fishes! Nice job, Punki, Electra, and hang in there Oldman!


Hehe, at this point I think Oldman is hoping the _fry_ hang in there for a while so he doesn't have to keep chasing them down. :lol:


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## diablo13

True, very true. I can imagine him and Electra( sry, I just read the entire thread)OM: yes, I'm finally a father! Electra: Nomomom.....". Ya, not really good at this thing


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## Punki

xD Good morning!
Hes moving a bit slow but still picking up the little ones, they seem to better be able to push themselves back into the nest today, i see them fall alittle then shoot back up, but some still keep falling ALL the way down, more hatched overnight and id say theres around 100 or so tiny tails hanging down at least. Cant wait till they freeswim so i can give him a rest. I really expected that, with his age/past care hed be no good at this, hed eat them all as they spawned or be too tired to care for fry, i never expected him to follow this all the way through.


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## Sakura8

What an amazing guy! You must be so proud of him.  And it's simply amazing how fast the fry develop.


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## diablo13

Yay Oldman! You can do this! He probably never realize how much work he had to do if he got his wish, lol


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## indjo

@Punki; I assume "oldman" is old. Be sure to "recondition" him once you take him out of the fry tank with lots of high protein food and keep him in a more shallow tank ... just in case.

Congrats on your success.


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## Punki

lol! It was a bit odd though, when spawning was done, instead of Electra running when he nipped she suddenly fought back, trying to get HIM away from the nest. She also constantly put the fallen eggs into the nest. It was almost as if she wanted to do all the nest work, maybe she thought he was too old also XD
Today i ordered some decapped brine shrimp, i have live atm but in 1-2 weeks id like them to start transitioning to some nonlive foods mixed in (decapped bs), hoping this will make them accept pellets later, since they wont wiggle and move. So i was thinking i could mix those with the live feedings since they arent "live" (but super nutritious) and get them used to eating when i drop food, not just when it wiggles. So far, so good today


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## Punki

indjo yes hes a walmart betta who i assume was about 8m-1yr when i got him and ive had him 5 months so hes past his prime so to speak, and the cup care at walmart probobly wasnt the best so i dont expect him to live a full 3-6 years but id be happy if he did  He'll be put into a 3g with a touch of salt and lots of live foods. Poor guy will be starving. but half filling it is a good idea for a few days, thanks for that. I did Electra like that, shes in a 2g half filled atm.


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## diablo13

Wow punki, you put so much effort in this and are going to make so many people happy! You and Oldman are doing an awesome job with it, too!


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## Punki

Thanks, i still worry ill mess things up somehow, im constantly googling and searching these forums. These forums have really made my days so much more fulfilling, proper care has given me two very happy interactive little bettas and now its taught me how to successfully spawn aggressive fish without any major injury/death and its my one and only hobby and i love it XD I feel very accomplished but honestly i wonder how ill ever let all these fish go, after being so thurough with their care, ill definitely be paranoid about their future owners but im hoping since they will be properly taken care of and supplied by me, they will be much better informed and have active healthy fish to start, and in a cup at the store they just lay, but hopefully seeing these little guys and girls beg and follow them across the room they can appreciate them as i do and want them to have the very best. Im excited to keep a few and know ill get to have them much longer then the lives of my petstore ones, its all really exciting xD Some of my family laughs and calls me fishgirl, and picks jokes like when i stayed up for 48 hours to see the whole process of spawning and keep them safe they would laugh and call me a fish pervert XD Ive had at least 10 people come check out my babies just from yesterday/today, all family but all really excited. Im also happy to know that since this, my family have all went out to get proper tanks, be it at a yardsale or petco, they all have at least 2g+ set aside for when these guys are older. Thats reassuring. Im half tempted to go to the dollar tree and buy some 2g bowls i saw, a dollar each, cant beat it, and that way i can give the nursing home some as well so ill know they are getting a nice space. Im rambling on and on, but its really exciting for me, who would have thought id enjoy fish so much, i got oldman just randomly then found this forum and gradually went betta crazy XD
Ill post more pics this evening, oldman has really outdone himself, his once 3x3 inch bubblenest he spawned under has now spread all across that side of the tank and is taking up almost a 4th of the surface. Hes amazing 
Oh ill update on miss Electra also
- Shes doing great, i put about 10-15 mosquito larvae in her tank when i woke up and she chased them down and gobbled them up, and a bit ago i noticed i had some bloodworms (i think) in one of my outside buckets so i rinsed those off and gave her 5-6 of them, she also gobbled those up. Her nipped fins are healing, no black tips, only a few white tips starting to appear, ive been using a magnifying glass and flashlight to once daily check her thoroughly, Her few missing scales have regrown really fast because i no longer see any missing at all. I plan to keep her in the 2g tank half filled with 1g of water and a tsp of aquarium salt daily for the rest of the week and then start filling it all the way with regular non salted water after that and changing it every other day, then ill move her back into her home, by then she should have some decent regrowth. Shes egging up again already though, i guess its unnatural for her to be thin XD


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## diablo13

Again, great job  and you shouldn't call yourself Betta crazy, I mean sure, you do have like a hundred baby ones at your house but... Some members do have ungodly amounts of fish I'm getting a new tank myself. Might just have to get one of your babies.....


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## Punki

If i could learn to safely ship them id have no problem doing that, especially if theres more then expected. Itd be great to know someone from here got one


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## NCPanthersgurl

So I read where you said you weren't a hundred percent on water changes yet. I found this really nifty youtube video, I think it'll be the way I do things. Basically get hose, attach an airstone. Use a turkey baster at the other end, squeeze it enough to get the water in the hose, and it'll drain into a bucket or whatever; the grooves are too small to suck up the fry. 

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxl3REegUUI

As to shipping, that's really simple too 

Link: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=35196


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## Punki

Thats an awesome idea with water changing, as small as they are right now i planned to carefully turkey baste the bottom and then siphon with the airhose against a sponge, but i have airstones so i may change plans, i need to watch it a few more times to completely grasp it 100% But thanks 
My problem with shipping is that im in FL and when they are big in Oct itll still be in the high 90's here so if someone lived here thatd be fine, i could just cool it, but if it was going up north in Oct itd be going from 90's to possibly 30's-40's but i couldnt put a heat pad in because if the beginning heat XD


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## NCPanthersgurl

Ooo I see your issue. I wonder how others do it?

And yeah, I had to watch that video 4 times to entirely understand what was going on. Then I'm like OHH that's genius. I think she gets a lot of the big stuff out with the turkey baster, but the water through the air stone is brilliant. And simple, really.


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## NCPanthersgurl

Pst; and the song's kinda catchy.


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## TheBlueBettaFish

He he..."Old Man" reminds me of the Old Man on Pawn Stars...have you seen it?

Hope it goes well! :-D


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## diablo13

I wonder if Oldman can tell the difference between the fry... I can imagine it now...

Random Fry #1: Daddy, what was mommy like?

Oldman: Well young'un, she was the dang purdiest fish I ever have seen!

Random Fry #2: Wheee! Daddy, i want to do it again!

Oldman: Well for good gawds sake, Cindy, that's been the 12th time today!


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## Punki

NC yes that song is oddly catchy XD
Thanks Bluebettafish! I havent sat down to watch it yet, he mostely got his name from the fact that when they were in the divided 10g hed catch a glimpse of her, but hed just swim all slow and sneak peeks, he was a dirty old man xD
Diablo, hes got too many to keep track of i think, its like...100 twins, how scary XD

Well oldman seems to be getting tired, the little ones can hang better now so he doesnt have to pick up too many but ive caught him a couple of times resting on a leaf, or hiding in the plants nibbling them, poor guy =/ I may remove him alittle sooner if tomorrow he seems more tired. But hes still running over when a fry makes it past the halfway point down to pick them back up. Heres a couple of pics, they dont look too much different then day 1, except i can see their little black dot eyes alittle better, a bit smaller yolk sack, and a tiny tad longer bodys i THINK XD
Ignore the water spots, after taking the pic i wiped them off xD
Old man yelling "IM COMING TO THE RESCUE HANG ON!!" with a glimmer in his eye (check out all those bubbles btw)








and the babies


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## TheBlueBettaFish

Good Luck!!!


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## Sakura8

The more you post, the more I admire Old Man and his utter devotion. What an awesome father he is. :-D And look at his colors! He's gotten brighter, hasn't he?


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## diablo13

Aw, poor Oldman. You just sorta have to feel sorry for him.


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## Punki

I think the lighting caught him just right to brighten him up a bit but i actually think so also, if i had gotten a pic of him with Electra when he was showing off he looked a vibrant PURPLE, that blue and red just deepened so nicely, he was able to seduce her being all handsome ) The babies yolk sacks are smaller this morning, they arent horizontal just yet but they are gaining a bit more control. I think i spotted my first dead one last night, as i walked by, noticed oldman was on the opposite side of his nest with a white dot on his head so i leaned down alittle worried and saw it was a lifeless fry laying on his head, then he done his food dance since i was looking at him and it fell to the bottom. If fish could tell you things i imagine he was showing me how he lost one of his little ones. Suprisingly he didnt eat it. Otherwise all is well, hes still spitting them back in the nest if they dont find their way, and today the nest seems alittle more thin, a few are holding onto the glass instead, still plenty of nest though.


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## Sakura8

What a good, non-cannibalistic father Old Man is being. Maybe he thought if he carried it around on his head it would swim back up on its own, not realizing it was gone? Who knows. I bet he was stunning when he was purple. Hehe, it reminds me of an old man getting out his purple disco suit to show off to the younger ladies.


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## diablo13

Thanks Sakura, now I have a mental picture of an Old man in a disco suit, lol. Poor Fry, but I guess some had to go eventually


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## Sakura8

:lol: "uh uh uh uh stayin' alive"


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## bettaloverforever16

Lol, great song to see to Old Man.


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## Punki

LOL if i wasnt so busy id photoshop a suit on him XD
So i have a couple questions if anyone knows the answers.
I have about 4-5 freeswimmers, the rest are still mostely vertical still, and a bunch just hang, when should i remove him? I expected to look in and see a bunch of freeswimmers and then remove but its gradially happening, maybe tonight?
I knew gravel-less bottom was needed but i had some fake plants to anchor so i only gravled 1/4 of the tank basically just anchoring the fake plants, thinking that for spawning, they still have barebottom so they could see their eggs, but forgetting the big picture, needing to keep the bottom spotless, when i do remove oldman, could i gently remove the gravel or just leave it this week? One of my plants is also not doing well and rotting so i need to remove it also but i dont want to kill any fry in the process.
oldman sees the freeswimmers and sometimes just watches them, sometimes he spits them back into the nest, and sometimes he gives them rides on his head LOL, hasnt eaten one yet though.
Edit- Also, isnt it alittle early to freeswim? I thought it was three days after hatching but its only been about 40-48 hours. I also dropped some inforsia in just in case they needed more.


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## Punki

Electra update- Her fin regrowth is coming along fast now, theres visibly white growth on all fins that is about || long, id say by the time a month is over she will be back to her old spiky spunky self


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## NCPanthersgurl

Yay fin regrowth! Also thought I'd share:










I found it! Just like she used in that cleaning vid I showed you! I bought it at a local petshop for a buck. The airstone too. Yay! >.<


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## Punki

Very nice! Well in the course of 2 hours im seeing only a few on the bubbles now, and i cant see any swimming either D;!!! Oldman doesnt look plump but he isnt tending to anything really so im about to remove him and the rotten plant and hope for the best. I hope he didnt get too hungry =x Still hoping for input for the gravel i did leave in to anchor the plants, should i remove or is it too much disturbance, or just leave it?
I counted about 15 fry still hanging, the rest im unsure of D;


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## NCPanthersgurl

Hmmm. They should be okay in there, idk why not.


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## diablo13

The plants I'm not really sure about, maybe if you can remove them without hurting the fry, but i dont think the gravel is a imidiate problemi unless the fry are getting stuck in it


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## Punki

Removed daddy, but he fought me about it, hes upset, and he also spit out 3 fry when i cupped him so i tried to carefully baste them back into the tank, hes adjusting in his floating cup atm to his own tank. When i pulled him/rotting plant out i saw 6 scatter so i guess they are hiding in the plants  carefully added some duckweed to the surface and hoping for the best, that i didnt disturb them too much. The numbers do seem low but hopefully they are hiding. Checked water levels and all seems well chemically, and temp is 82 with clear wrap on top so heres hoping =x
I dont think any are stuck in the gravel but when i clean i guess i will just poke the gravel area and syphen up then double check my bucket, at least its black gravel, eaiser to spot them in it.


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## Punki

Old Man: -bow-








Good job old man, if you wouldnt dry out and squish , id hug you.


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## diablo13

Let's hear it for Oldman! He finally gets a well-earned rest


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## Punki

He did well, im guestimating i have 30 fry, i guess some could be out of sight, well see  Some are stil swimming up and down or at a \ angle and others are able to hang by the surface at this angle - and swim, Still hoping theres more hidden but its obvious some are ahead of the rest, the ones at - angle are slightly easier to see and longer.


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## Punki

Some had empty bellies so i put a small drop of boiled egg yolk in, as they seemded to not be able to eat the bbs (they were close) and a few got yellow bellies, later i noticed that i always have these thin (thinner then a hair) white worms in my tank no matter what and i saw a fry sinking and looking..odd... then i realized it had one of those tiny worms in its mouth, it gobbled it down and had a white belly, so i looked at the few i could find against the glass and they had white bellies as well, the worms mostely stay on glass so i think they are grazing on them lol! Spaghetti~


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## Sakura8

I can't offer any advice on when to remove poor Old Man but I'd say it's important to get the rotting plant out before it adds anymore ammonia. Do it now while you don't have many freeswimmers to get caught in it. Maybe shake it very gently before removing it?

So cute Old Man gives them rides on his head. I'm such a fan now of him. :-D 

You could try and scoop the gravel into one corner of the tank for now and anchor the plants with big decorative rocks.


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## tropicalfishland

I just finish reading this entire thread, and I'm having the same experience as you, except that my male betta isn't that old, but he does take a lot of breaks. Overall he still does really good with the fry. 

Hope all your babies grow up healthy.


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## Sakura8

Old Man, you are an awesome dad. :-D You deserve your rest and your food.


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## Punki

I feel so bad for Oldman, i just checked his babies, counted 26 at the surface, but all freeswimmers now, but then i looked at him and he was resting in his favorite plant (i put it wherever he goes cause he sleeps in it) close to the surface, he was asleep but above his head was a little bubblenest, hes resting on his plant and eyeing his nest. Sorry Oldman, they grow too fast dont they? XD I guess he really enjoyed being a daddy. Hes in aq salt but the nips Electra gave him are healed, but just to be safe. Belly is full of mosquito larvae.
The Fry- Free swimming but hanging at the top, catching a little tiny worm or two, a few will eat egg yolk but im using it VERY sparingly as to not muck up the water. Tomorrow i plan to drip a half gallon of water in after basting where the egg falls. Hopefully itll be okay overnight. Their little bellies are mostely white, hopefully its because of the worms they are eating and the inforsia. Honestly i have no idea exactly how small baby brine shrimp are when first hatched, ive got it all set up and going to find out, im gonig to try it tomorrow if they seem small enough. They probably have plenty of inforsia to eat as it is but theres a couple hanging in spots that arent really trying and they dont have the round little belly. Weaklings i guess, so i put the yolk near them and a couple went for it, hopefully the other few catch on asap.
Thanks Sakura, i need to find some big rocks, Florida doesnt have many rocks so i need to head to petco , till then ill just leave it, if i look reallllllly closely i see little critters in it, i guess they eat the bacteria and hopefully my fry eat them until i can get it out 
Tropical- Same to you! Ill be keeping track of your fry as well, we should both end up with pretty little combtails, hope we both succeed


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## Sakura8

Yes, they do eat all the little bacteria and things so that's good. I think the only things you want to be careful about are hydra, I hear they can wrap their tentacles around fry. 









Old Man sounds so cute, like dad snoring away in his favorite armchair. What a guy.


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## Punki

ekk! nope never seen one of those in the tank, just a small red hair thickness worm or two and lots of white worms, i think microbes is what they are called. The fry eat them like spahgetti XD The gravel i did use to anchor was oldmans and plus i guess the live plants maybe brought a couple critters in though i quarantined them for a week and washed daily. Tiny little things. Anyways heres the fry tonight!








and a few have found each other in the big tank without daddy..


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## Sakura8

Oh wow, they're so tiny! So cute. They're just amazing little things. You're doing such a great job, Punki, you and Old Man both. And Electra gets to just chill out and relax, hehe. I bet the fry will get her spunk.


----------



## Punki

Yeah they are quite small but noticeably different then night before last, if i look really hard, or just use a magnifying glass i can watch their eyes move around looking for food, and see their tiny mouths open and shut. They are cute to watch  Thanks!  Im hoping tomorrow they will swim around a bit more but i guess they like the surface best because of all the foods up there, the tank light seems to attract critters. I wonder, should i start shutting the light off at night now, i kept it on for oldman to do his work but now that hes out i wonder if the fry need it.


----------



## Sakura8

Hmm. I don't know. In the wild I guess they'd have some diffused moonlight, so maybe shut off the light but keep a lamp on nearby? I'm really not sure though. 

I just can't believe how fast the fry develop, it's so amazing that they go from egg to freeswimming in so short a time. If they showed this kind of thing in schools, I bet more kids would be interested in science. More interesting than the Miracle of Life video, anyway. Watched that in junior high and at that age, all it does is gross kids out.


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## Punki

lol )it is true though, they grow so fast. My dad is rather unimpressed with their size since yesterday he watched a minnow in my stepmoms pond give birth, i hear they just shake and babies fly out, livebearers, makin it look so easy~ lol!


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## Sakura8

Hehe, at least there haven't been any more unidentified fry found in that pond. You've got your hands full.


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## Punki

lol Yep ) I went by today and looked at her pond, theres about 100 minnows, 6 goldfish, and 2 big koi, water conditions are great though, its amber colored with tannins too, which shes trying to remove, but still, good for those fish, and since its near an oak tree she will have a constant battle keeping tannins out XD


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## Sakura8

When the koi and goldfish get bigger, they'll help keep the minnow population under control. Sounds neat. I'd love a pond but we'd have to put some screen over it to keep the neighborhood cats out. Not to mention my own cat who goes outside.


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## Punki

Yeah i saw the koi jump up and get a minnow, the koi is about 5 inches long, she swore he was only going for a pellet but i know better, ah well, shes got the circle of underwater life in that pond  
I found out what thee worms are, they are nematodes! They probably came in on the plants because i didnt even have fish in there to eat to possibly overfeed. They are a harmless type and apparently eagerly eaten by shrimp and fry, so im glad i have the little nasty things after all because they seem to love them XD


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## Sakura8

That's great! I'm glad they aren't harmful and they'll make your fry nice and happy.


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## diablo13

That's actually sorta reilieving to you, because when there are still nematodes, you have to sparingly feed them!


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## Punki

Very true, im happy they are there, almost all the fry consistently have round bellies even before a feed lol. I decided to add some water to the tank today, i didnt want to disturb them too much so i did it throughout the day, i took a small bottle and stuffed a sponge in the opening then cut off the bottom and hung it just over the water, then filled the bottle up, water slowely trinkled into the tank, they ran up curiously ) Everytime i count i get a higher number. When i removed oldman i wasthinking 15-20 then yesterday i counted 26 and today i counted 38, but im sure to have missed some since i only counted the ones grazing on the surface. Im guessing i have 45-50 total at the moment. All seems well


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## Sakura8

A good, full spawn. Things will get fun when they get bigger and need their growout tanks. How is Old Man today? If you can ever get a picture of him sleeping in his favorite plant, I'd love to see it.


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## Punki

Yeah, i have a 20g outside that im experimenting live plants on, ill probably end up using that after 2 months unless the spawn count drops a good bit, but hopefully they dont get aggressive too soon, i think im really going to enjoy seeing them all together, itll be sad when its jar time. Took some decent pics just now, and took one for you Sakura, he was asleep when i read your reply so i quickly snapped one xD
Day 4









Resting with his new bubblenest in his eyesight








Funny pic  The left one reminds me of oldman somehow LOL
























Three amigos on an exploration adventure to find foods )


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## Sakura8

Old Man looks so tired but so peaceful and happy on his plant. :-D What a guy. And I love the fry! Maybe it's the little expression on the left fry in the first pic. He DOES remind me of Old Man somehow. You've got some great pics, Punki, I love the three amigos. Safety in numbers, after all. So adorable. How is Electra doing?


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## Punki

Shes doing pretty good, ive been trying to make her water changes as pleasant as possible, using a baster to remove 90% then a baster to squirt water back in...As if she is a fry lol. She isnt her zippy self since the spawn but im pretty sure its because of the smaller container, when i first got her she rested alot in 1.5g, but once she had 5g she went wild. I plan to put her in a 3g in a few days, she should get back to her usual self then while i re-set up their 10g divided and wait for oldman to rest up. Her nips have healed great so far, all the body nips are gone, and her fin nips have some nice white tips coming in. I havent taken any pictures of her since shes easily stressed in a small space it seems. But shes eating well, resting, and healing. 
Yes the fry on the left, i think he was eyeballing that worm and i snapped as he looked down, making him look like he had droopy eyelids ) If only i could keep up with him specifically to deem him oldmans true son. 
Edit- did you notice the worm saying "oh noes!" lol those things are all around and the fry keep gobbling them up, i was glad to get a clear pic of one finally xD


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## Sakura8

Good to hear Electra's healing up. She's so pretty, it's hard to think of her with nips in those gorgeous fins. She must be thinking, "Hey, this parenting thing is pretty easy!"

If that fry is Old Man's true son, all those traits will definitely show up when he's old enough to identify, lol.


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## Punki

I know, i hate looking at her like this, well i mean i dont HATE looking at her, but you know, i just feel so bad, they were perfect, now theres a nip on each one, top/bottom/tail. I cant wait till shes 100% grown back. Im loading her with protein everyday and tannins hoping it speeds things up. She sems oblivious to the fact she mated now though, when i first removed her she built a little bubblenest of her own in her current tank. I remived her because she was trying to fight oldman, she wanted him to get away so she could tend to things. But old man was perfect, he didnt end up eating any of his little ones and still seems *in the zone* of being a daddy, as if he misses his fry and keep a bubblenest ready incase they visit or something )


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## Sakura8

Anyone who says fish don't have personality or are stupid should just look at Old Man. Stupid, boring fish definitely don't do what he's done with his little kiddies.


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## Punki

I know ive said it many times but he amazed me, with him being past his prime breeding age, even with months of conditioning foods and water changes i expected him to tire out, eat the eggs/fry. Even worrying this i decided to leave him in, and just keep a close eye and im so glad i did. If fish can enjoy life which i believe they can, im happy i gave him a good home, clean water, a pretty girl, a chance to father, and a comfortable place to age in peace. He started this hobby with his funny, grumpy, piggy nature and mood changing colors. A typically colored veiltail from walmart is gettin the good life because he acted like he wanted to attack me through his cup in an isle XD


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## Sakura8

Haha, you just never know what life intends, do you? He has so much personality and it's good he showed all of that to you right there in Wal-Mart or this might be a different story. Sounds like he was grumpy even way back then. "If you're not going to buy me, you can just go away, so there!" *picture an old man crossing arms and scowling*


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## bettaloverforever16

That spawn is gonig to be lovely, with such pretty parents!


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## Punki

Sakura- So true, When i noticed him wiggling like mad he caught my eye, but i remember grabbing a few "pretty" ones that werent as active, but pretty nonetheless, and as i held his cup in one hand and theirs in the other he went from "IM GONNA JUMP OUT OF THIS CUP AND MUNCH YOU UP IF YOU DONT GET ME OUT OF HERE!" to "WHAT IS THAT THING?!?" looking at the other one XD Its silly but i always find myself putting words into his mouth 

Bettalover- I really hope so! Electra is just so colorful and vibrant and spiky, while oldman is just so deep/rich colored. He shimmers, and she shines, im looking forward to seeing how they turn out


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## Sakura8

Old Man just has that kind of personality that makes it so easy to imagine what he might say.


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## Punki

Yes he does  Since removing him ive kept 3/4 of his tank covered but left his little plant at the opening, so hes spending most of his time resting at the opening and peeking out. Im glad hes resting up  Now is time for me to do the same XD goodnight


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## Sakura8

Good night, Punki. You and Old Man sleep well, you both deserve the rest.


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## diablo13

Gosh, you sleep for 8 hours and you guys make 2 new pages  I do feel a little bad for Oldman, he was a great father, and your a great fish-mom, punki


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## Sakura8

diablo, you think this is bad, go over to the "I Have No Self-Control" thread. Sleep for 8 hours and you get 5-20 pgs on average.


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## diablo13

Wow, that is bad, and punki, is that a close-up of the fry or Are they really that big? They look amazing!


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## Punki

Its as close as i could get. They are visible when sitting 5 feet away but mostely just look like dots zooming around )


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## diablo13

Aw, I want a tank full of dots! Lol


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## Sakura8

Me too but I'll have to settle for a tank full of guppies and cories. I should get guppie dots soon, one of the gups I got is already pregnant. Actually, two are, but one should be due soon. Hope she doesn't give birth in the quarantine tank.


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## Punki

I think its gonna take these bettas a month just to look like a baby guppy LOL! Unless im imagining baby guppies too big. I read that some people put baby guppies with betta fry to teach bettas to accept dry foods cause the guppies are doing it. Its interesting


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## Sakura8

Aww, betta fry are so tiny! How cute. Course I'm forgetting the guppy fry come out fully developed. I've never seen guppy fry in person so I'm excited. But I'll be even more excited when your betta fry start looking like bettas.


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## Punki

Post pics when they are born, ive never seen them either xD


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## diablo13

Hmm, guppy fry. Do you guys know if they come out with color or just fully developped?


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## Sakura8

I will, definitely. We can compare fish babies. 

diablo, nope, I don't know so I guess I get to find out, hehe.


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## kaykay1295

hey, i jsut got a new beta. like 20 minutes ago. its a crowntail. i bought it at walmart and road it home on the bus, im slightly concerned because its been hovering around 100 for the past week and is a 10 min walk from the bus stop to my house. hes in the 1 gallon bowl now i baught bettamin and freezedried blood worms. also two tank cares ones a pelet that dissolves in the water in a seltzer like fashion and the other is drops. iv put the pellet in but am reluctant to put in the drops also for fear of putting in too many things. i have to TINY other fish in there too. my sister demanded i take them. their the babys of some of her fish she has a smaller tank than me with about 20 fish in it and never cleans it im the one who usualy feeds them. so of course i took some of her fish! i havent named my beta, hes blue and white with the white being pretty dominant but still has vibrant blues and and orangish black head, i didnt notice it was orange black until i got him in my room.some of the white has a pinkish purple tint to it. if you guys have any advice or tips id love to hear them, i won some fish at my fair yesturday i bought the bowl cleaning kits a net and goldfish food and they died an hour later!!! hes not very active, should i be conserned about this? do u think he will attack the other two fish/guppies ? what should i name him? how often do i clean the tank


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## diablo13

Um, welcome to the forum, but why did you post here? Your betta sounds pretty, you should clean the water every other day, all that good stuff...


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## NCPanthersgurl

kaykay1295 said:


> hey, i jsut got a new beta. like 20 minutes ago. its a crowntail. i bought it at walmart and road it home on the bus, im slightly concerned because its been hovering around 100 for the past week and is a 10 min walk from the bus stop to my house. hes in the 1 gallon bowl now i baught bettamin and freezedried blood worms. also two tank cares ones a pelet that dissolves in the water in a seltzer like fashion and the other is drops. iv put the pellet in but am reluctant to put in the drops also for fear of putting in too many things. i have to TINY other fish in there too. my sister demanded i take them. their the babys of some of her fish she has a smaller tank than me with about 20 fish in it and never cleans it im the one who usualy feeds them. so of course i took some of her fish! i havent named my beta, hes blue and white with the white being pretty dominant but still has vibrant blues and and orangish black head, i didnt notice it was orange black until i got him in my room.some of the white has a pinkish purple tint to it. if you guys have any advice or tips id love to hear them, i won some fish at my fair yesturday i bought the bowl cleaning kits a net and goldfish food and they died an hour later!!! hes not very active, should i be conserned about this? do u think he will attack the other two fish/guppies ? what should i name him? how often do i clean the tank


Welcome. Can I suggest you repost this in the Betta Care forum as a new thread? You'll get better responses in there than in someone's spawn log. ;P


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## Punki

Kay most likely he will snack on a baby guppy asap and 1g isnt enough to house all three, make sure you slowely adapt him to the new water by floating him in his cup in the new water so the temp can stable out. You should post this in the betta fish care section to get more help.


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## Punki

Oh you two beat me to it )
Today i attempted my first water change, taking out a half gallon, and am now slowely dripping a new 1/2 gallon of conditioned water. I didnt suck up any fry and got the floor halfway clean so im pleased with it lol 
I have a sponge filter but im not sure when i should put it in. >.<


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## NCPanthersgurl

I posted a thread in the habitats log about that nifty hose clean up thing I told you about. Works amazing. And erm. I think the sponge filter can go in any time after they're free swimming.


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## diablo13

I would guess when you can see the fry and they look bigger than dots, so they don't get beat up in the current. I know it's sponged but, dots


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## Punki

lol ) the airflow is adjustable so i may put it in and barely run it once im done dripping this water in, mostely just to keep the top from gunking up. Id hate to put it in and ZOOM tons of dots attach to a sponge D;
NC ill check it out, i ended up using an airhose with an airstone jammed in a sponge just to remove water slowely but for the vacuuming i just carefully poked around and airhosed it out using my thumb on the opposite end to stop/start flow into the bucket. When i finished i flashlighted the bucket for a few minutes, besides snail poop and a few adult poo's there was nothing


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## Punki

Water change complete, 0 fry loss. Then i added some extra inforsia and all their little bellies got fat lol, they are starting to learn that a disturbance in the water means food most of the time. They are growing pretty fast, from head to the tip of their transparent tail they are this long |.....|(the dots) mostely see through except for their bellies and eyes but id say they are growing nicely


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## NCPanthersgurl

Yayyy babies! I want babies; my boy isn't cooperating though. My girl is plump, full of eggs, and her little white spot is showing. He's been dancing around her jar. The tank is 80*. And as soon as I released them? Nothing. Nothing at all.


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## Punki

He doesnt try and look for her or anything? Oldman realized Electra was "touchable" when i released her and chased her down asap, over and over until she submitted to him head down when hed approach, then hed focus on the nest and just check in here and there to make sure she didnt forget he was the man. Does yours have any nest started?
It seemed like to me that once oldman gave the first nip, the whole process of courting began, because she went from exploring to hiding and having to react to him.


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## NCPanthersgurl

He has rows of bubbles all over the place, and some in between the plants. It's like he starts one and leaves it, and then repeats. But other than the flaring and following her in the jar, now that she's free, he's not interested. He's pacing a bit, but sticks pretty much to the left of the tank. She in the meantime goes all over, trys to find him, etc. *Siiigggghhhh* I'll just give them time and hope something happens.


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## Punki

I wish i had experience with that to help ya, i cant imagine oldman not caring, as soon as i placed a snail in his tank he killed it D;


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## NCPanthersgurl

That's terrible. But funny, he was trying to be a good daddy. >.<


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## Punki

lol this was before he was a daddy xD hes just a mean old grumpy man always. but if not breeeding its gotta be nice to have such a laid back guy


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## NCPanthersgurl

I do love my Jazz. He's absolutely beautiful and has such a sweet personality. Worse case he'll be my "trophy fish" and I'll buy Alma a man who has her sex drive.


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## Punki

Took a couple of quick shots tonight, not 100's ) but here they are today
















About to feed them again, it seems the fat get fatter and the thin dont attack the food often enough. I watched one guy with a smaller belly nip at an inforsia and spit it out 3 times. Its all live so instinct should work, but for a few it doesnt seem to as well.


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## NCPanthersgurl

Awwweeee little ones<3 They're so cute! :3 

Earlier I was reading a thread posted by what seemed to be a kid who had no knowledge of breeding at ALL and had a spawn of fry...I wish someone had thought to tell him to give the babies egg yolk instead of just letting them die :/


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## Punki

lol i read that same thread today but it was a week old by the time i saw it. Well i cultured out some insorsia for my guys but this time i dipped my finger in a bit of egg yolk water then dipped my finger into the inforsia water, so a mix of wigglers and egg yolk, it worked, they accepted the egg yolk much better. The first few days only a couple would eat it but inforsia was overloaded at that time, they had inforsia in their tank, and i was squirting some extra in and then rotating with egg yolk. Im glad they are starting to enjoy the yolk as well. Yellow bellies tonight instead of white!  The only downside is im paranoid about the yolk so i am daily quickvaccing the bottom, but i guess thats good anyways 
Earlier today i was feeding oldman and electra their mosquito larvae but i noticed their bucket had these tiny tiny larvae so i took a cup and a net and a coffee filter, put the coffee filter under the net and scooped out a cup, poured it into the net, then the small tiny larvae went through the net and got caught in the coffee filter. I put them with the fry and a couple got eaten pretty fast. I still see a couple in there, maybe those were still too big, but its close! Im thinking about trying bbs tomorrow, they arent a week yet but they hatched 5 days ago, tomorrow will be day 6. Id love to see them eat bbs )


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## NCPanthersgurl

I was surprised at how tiny BBS is! But Jazz and Alma love it. I use it as a conditioning food because I know how good it is for them. Their colors have been so greatly enhanced since I started feeding it to them! It's awesome.


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## Punki

I had to order some just for this, i couldnt find anywhere with it lol. I used mosquito larvae to condition, 3 feeds a day with tons per feed. Ive got a big plastic garbage bucket full of algae, leaves, larvae and a few snails somehow found their way in. It only sucks when i get bit D;


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Yeah I'm worried I don't have enough. I'm thinking about buying another culture of some kind just to have on hand.


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## Punki

Better to have too much then not enough, who knows, once jazz is rested he may father 100+ pretty babies 
I snapped a quick picture of Electra tonight, with flash she looks more blue, the pinks and purples get washed out, some of the white shows blue and green but since its dark i had to have flash on  Her real life colors are in my icon, such a difference flash makes on her colors, its not doing her justice >=[ But You can see her nipped fins and the white regrowth coming in though. It cant come fast enough, shes too pretty to be nipped! 








The missing pectoral is still a nub, i dont think it will ever grow in fully, i got her that way, but its grown some since i got her.


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## diablo13

Daw, Electras so pretty! Is she a CT? Adorable!


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## Sakura8

She looks like you woke her up from her beauty nap, haha.  She's such a beautiful girl, I'm glad those nipped fins are healing.


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## NCPanthersgurl

Aww she's pretty. 

For me, flash does the opposite. Like in my av; you can see the iridescent qualities to Jazz's fins that are only kinda visible normally. They're becoming more pronounced.

I can't wait to see Electra's babies all grow'd up. >.<


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## Punki

Yeah i DID wake her ) Shes a little CT yep. Thanks  I slept in way late so im a bit behind, gotta feed the babies!


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## Sakura8

:lol: She's like, "Whaaaa, who's there, can't you see I'm sleeping?" She even has sleepy eyes, which is funny since bettas don't have eyelids.


----------



## Punki

xD Shes a cute one for sure 
Her and oldman are well today, and the babies, i was late feeding, some still had round bellies but about 25% didnt D; So i threw inforsia in there. Ive got some brine shrimp set up so im gonig to try that tonight. All of the plants i put in have such clean perfect roots now o.o Theyve picked them clean. So i added more duckweed from the QT bucket. Its been so hot here that their leaves are yellow but hopefully they perk up like the first batch did. Ill have to keep an eye on them to make sure they dont die and remove as nessisary but the little ones are already cuddling up in the roots and picking, microscopic food ftw!~ )


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## Sakura8

Do you still have those nemotodes in there for them to snack on in between feedings?


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## Punki

The nematode population has shrunk, i still see them but maybe half as many? I know some are still grazing on them though. i catch them slurping it down. Its almost as if some fry have figured out that the nematode are on the walls/surface and hang in groups there, while others are only hanging around the floating plants and eating the inforsia then i got a few weaker ones that hide in the corner that i put a drop of egg yolk in for and they eat that. The nematode eaters are the largest and longest.
If i ever breed again i swaer im gonig to take some gravel, put it in a jar, then take some tank water and fill it up, then float some plants on the surface because that was the exact conditions that the nematodes appeared from. Id like to have more  But the fry are large enough for bbs im pretty sure. They have relly grown when i look back 6 days ago at their little hanging bodies XD


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## Sakura8

I still can't get over how fast they grow. Every time I think about it I'm amazed. And culturing nematodes would probably make it easier for you, too, you wouldn't have to feed as much egg yolk. Aww, it's so hard to believe they're 6 days old!


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## Punki

It seems like the fry are picky XD Now i know why they say to feed variety, not only for nutrition but for those silly picky skinny ones in the corner! They swim up to the egg yolk dot so carefully then inhale it in, while the big fry chomp down on a nematode and swim around with it hanging out of their mouth like pro's. The strong/weak ones are starting to show for sure.


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## Sakura8

But even so I doubt you'll lose too many, if any at all, because you're taking such good care of them, making sure even the weak ones get fed. And it's funny, I guess bettas can be picky eaters right from birth. Who knew. Silly little things.


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## Punki

lol its true  I just took a magnifying glass to them, i havent in a few days because i can see them decently without it but wow, the groups hang together by belly color ) White bellies, orangish bellies, and yellow bellies )
I can watch their mouths open and close now without the magnifying glas which is fun but next feed i think ill use it to watch. I can see little fins trying to grow at the tips, so so tiny clear little fin, jerking as they swim >.< cute. Yeah i could just let only the strong survive but i feel pity for the others. I havent found any dead so far, and when i count i always get in the low to high 40's. After 2 weeks i should be able to count them with more assurance since the first two weeks are the danger zone. Im almost at week 1 complete!


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## Sakura8

You have done so well, I'm so amazed and proud of you, Punki! Breeding bettas has always seemed like an intimidating thing to me and you're doing fantastic.  *big hug*


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## Punki

Ah thanks  I tend to be an obsessive type, if im into something im consumed by it. Works out well in the fry's case, but the husband gets a bit bored hearing about the Fry too much so i gotta control myself XD My 3 year old daughter has watched me also, now she takes her own cups and water and cofee filters and pours water from cup to cup, then holds the flashlight to it lmao! She also takes the flashlight to the tanks and says aww fishy *kiss tank* (i dont kiss the tank i promise!!) ive even watched her grab the digi cam and snap a pic of oldman )


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## Sakura8

Aww your fry (human and fish) sound so cute! It's okay if you do kiss your fish tank, I get pretty close to kissing mine.  And yeah, I definitely am the obsessive type too so I completely understand.


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## Punki

My daughter isnt fond of Electra but she loves oldman, she always has, i think he likes her also, she gets the wiggle dance like i do, my husband does not however XD  Excuse the mess of mail and water, it was mail day and waterchange day )


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## Sakura8

Old Man is like, "What, another fry? How am I going to get that one back to the bubblenest? Don't think I can give her a ride on my head, either."


----------



## Punki

lol )
Whats this? Well hello Electra, why so small?


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## Sakura8

Sooo cute! The best part about breeding bettas have got to be the pics.


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## Punki

lol yep ) I love watching them eat, and love love pics, cause i can zoooooooom XD


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## Sakura8

And I really love that you bred your bettas because you wanted to their offspring, not for fancy tails or for showing reasons or for Aquabid or something like that. It's a good reason to breed them.


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## Punki

Thanks  Though i do think Electra may shoot some gorgeous genes into them possibly its not too important, i dont care, I wont be sellin any just giving them out, possibly buying some supplies for others actually, if they need help. But im sure breeding fancy types is fun also. If i didnt have a child id probably try to make it a big big hobby and do aquabid ect, i could see that if i didnt have other responsibilities XD It feels personal to raise these ones though, maybe thats why im being so thorough, i look at little electras fins and oldmans empty bubblenests that he still seems to think babies will appear from and feel the weight of the responsibility


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## Sakura8

Which you are bearing well. Especially considering you have to live up to Old Man's standards.  Well, when your daughter is older you could always breed seriously, even if it's several years away. Electra's colors would sell really well on Aquabid or even here on the forum and if you breed her offspring and then their offpsring to keep the line going, you should have some lovely bettas for Aquabid quality breeding. To keep the line going, you wouldn't have to have quite as many fry per spawn either, maybe only 10 or even as few as 5. Breeding sounds like a lot of fun, I wish I had room to try it, I'd love to breed my guy Sherman. He's my first betta and I'd love a fry to remember him by, too.


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## Punki

Its a nice thought, im in therapy for driving/job fear and i was hoping by the time she started school id be better and could get a part time job dealing with animals in some way for a few extra bucks but thats really a good idea. Id really enjoy it, especially knowing it all started with my own personal oldman/electra 
I felt like you, i didnt have the space, but eventually i made the space somehow, and i limited the spawn also, otherwise id probably have had 100+ hatch =x I can handle 50 but not 100+.


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## NCPanthersgurl

Aww weenie babies! They're so cute :3 I can't wait til I can get my own.


----------



## Punki

Tomorrow they will hit the 1 week mark  I cant wait to hear about your spawn as well NC  Come on Jazz, rest up, its time to be a daddy!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

While Jazzy's conditioning up, I got another male. Did you see? A double tail halfmoon from Petco!

And aww 1 week?? That's so awesome. Baby fishies make me squeal like a little girl, lol >.<


----------



## Sakura8

One week. *sniff* They really do grow up so fast. Yeah, come on Jazz, shake a leg! Err, fin.


----------



## diablo13

Aw, they grow up so fast, going from teeny fishes to bigger teeny fishes XD


----------



## Punki

OH MY! Hes like a male version of Electra color wise! lol With flash her pretty tips all turn blue/green as well depending on angle. Hes beautiful!


----------



## Punki

lol yes, bigger teeny fish is right. When ppl visit they give the tank a quick look then ask where the fish are, and i tell them to look again "OMG I SEE THEM OMG so little.. like lint! wooooow!" LOL!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Shanks! I want tiny dust spot fish! That's so awesome....lol


----------



## Punki

I think ive got my first bad fry. As i fed the others and they gathered, there was one with an empty tummy trying really hard to swim but it was like he had swimbladder issues, he fought hard to stay up but just kept sinking, he is very jerky.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Aww. Culling will be the part I have the most trouble with. I'll probably have to tell my boyfriend which ones to take out and not watch.


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah.  Like watching the runt of the litter. Poor little feller.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Yup. If I can't make it better though, no point making him suffer....though I don't want to be the one to end it either...

Is there a kind way to "put fish down"? I don't think flushing fry would be very kind. It would probably terrify them to death.


----------



## Sakura8

I think people use the clove oil method for fry, too. Those people who don't just feed them to bigger fish, anyway. I agree with you, NCPanthersgurl, I would make someone else do the culling.


----------



## Punki

Clove oil would be best, decapitation is quick but ya cant do that to a fry XD I havent decided how to cull fry yet. There isnt too much info on it other then feeding them to larger fish. Well in the mix id have a hard time getting this guy out so i left him alone, now i dont see any fish at the bottom or top dead so... maybe he was choking on something or something =x i have no clue o.o


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

I suppose you'll just have to wait and see. Also, if it works for fry too I'll probably use clove oil. I think it'd be the kindest way.


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah, maybe he just tried to eat something as big as he was. I hope he's okay.


----------



## Punki

I keep looking around still no sign of him, top or bottom, i guess he got over his weird twitch. Right now if one acts sick i really cant do anything, taking a baster would most likely suck out more then just him. The others were sortof circling him confused watching him twitch curiously.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Huh. Strange. Maybe it was just a momentary thing.


----------



## Punki

It was sudden, while eating, he just started jerking his body to the surface over and over, then over the course of about 60 seconds he started getting tired and sinking down, then fighting back up and twitching. The others were all gracefuly gobbling their food and watching him, jumping away when he got near. They were curious and scared. But now theres no sign of him and most look the same so i guess ill never know.


----------



## Punki

Hopefully though! Im prepared to lose some, i cant think of them as individuals yet, so its not as heartbreaking, they are just "the babies" too many to care for to get upset at the one lost. Just have to assume its for the best. Ive been lucky though so far.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

True. I tell myself one will survive. That way when more do, I'll be stoked, but when I lose a few, I'll be okay with it. >.<


----------



## Punki

Yeah, with oldman being older i thought maybe it would increase the risk for weak or deformed fry. Not sure if thats true but i prepared myself just in case.
So far most are growing along the average expected size, a few seem alittle ahead and a few behind. The twitchy one was quite small actually. Maybe hes got issues eating.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Maybe. Though I've heard of some people taking the ones they thought were smallest and routing them into a "QT" section so they can focus on feeding them specifically, and getting them to grow a bit more.


----------



## Punki

Oh wow, thatd be quite the task! I could imagine it at 1m+ but right now, theyd just swim through mesh and laugh at me ) They do tend to separate themselves though, which i take advantage of


----------



## Sakura8

Well, even though a loss is inevitable, I'm glad you didn't have to deal with one just yet. All of them should at least get to have their one week birthday first. Nature owes them that much, lol.


----------



## Punki

That is true  I think that oldman gave me a headstart because i know i had over 100 eggs up in there but as they started hatching the number went lower and lower. I think oldman was weeding out the weak. Many times i watched him carry them back to the nest so i know he wasnt just gobbling up random fry.


----------



## Sakura8

Old Man must have known which eggs/larvae were good and which were weak. He has good sense.


----------



## Punki

I think so. I never saw him eat any, if anything he enjoyed them while he was there. The day i removed him i could only count 5-7 fry where they usually were and oldman kept swimming back and forth to the nest and into the plants so i thought hed ate them all and removed him. As soon as i got him out he spit out fry and when i turned the light back on they were all swimming around the plants, i guess he was moving them to the infusoria. Made me feel bad removing him


----------



## Sakura8

With all due respect to my awesome dad, Old Man is my Father of the Year 2011.


----------



## Punki

lol  I guess bettas know the best spot for their little ones. The spawn nest was away from all plants but as soon as electra was out he started moving them around a floating plant to hatch.


----------



## Sakura8

Their instincts and innate knowledge is just incredible, how they know when to move them and where. Who says fish aren't smart?


----------



## Punki

Its fun though, like when i hear stories and people give me advice ) 
"they will eat each other!"
"The male is going to eat the eggs!"
"Can i have one next week? Ill get a tank for it..."
"You need to put them in a fry net before the female eats them!"
ect
Once i correct them they seem interested. Once my husband jumped in even! "No the dad fish doesnt eat them, i watched him, hed gobble them up and spit them out all over the top of the water over and over." i felt so proud XD


----------



## Arashi Takamine

Read the whole thread and I wanna say; CONGRATS to you, Electra and OldMan! I bet their babies will color up beautifully but for now I hope they keep doing well! Have you taken more pictures of them yet? I'd love to see some of them after they ate. (I keep hearing about the little orange/yellow bellies being so cute.)


----------



## Sakura8

Punki said:


> Its fun though, like when i hear stories and people give me advice )
> "they will eat each other!"
> "The male is going to eat the eggs!"
> "Can i have one next week? Ill get a tank for it..."
> "You need to put them in a fry net before the female eats them!"
> ect
> Once i correct them they seem interested. Once my husband jumped in even! "No the dad fish doesnt eat them, i watched him, hed gobble them up and spit them out all over the top of the water over and over." i felt so proud XD


You're doing so much to educate people about bettas, Punki. Bettas around the world want to thank you.  Sounds like you're even getting your husband interested, hehe. But then, nothing sounds more interesting to me than breeding bettas. Guess that means we're hardcore betta lovers.


----------



## Punki

Arashi ill try to get one tomorrow after a feed. It is quite cute  They are just so fast to hide when i pull out the camera, its a bit hard, but i love taking 100 pictures to get a few good shots of the day xD Thank you though, its been a fun journey conditioning, spawning, and now rearing but i love it 
Yeah its just funny hearing what people think is the right thing to do, not their fault but i love sparking their interest. My favorite question is "Why do you do so much work, its just a fish, it should be fine, how can you get attached" because then i get to explain how the bettas react differently then other fish ive been around. Goldfish,koi,guppies,minnows ect bleh! bettas have personality, and get so active! One guy even said "Arent those the sad fish that just lay around then die slowly?" i just responded with "yeah if you listen to the petstores instructions and not realize they need care just like any other fish" XD My husband isnt too interested, but he started this hobby, he is a game fanatic and other then doing stuff with our toddler i was bored so id ramble on all day and he told me to find a hobby so i said FISH not thinking id be into it too much but i was wrong. And now he complains the Fry get more meals then he does )


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah, if only pet stores could get it through their heads that bettas need heaters! You'd think the pet stores would love telling people this because it means one more piece of expensive equipment that owners have to buy, meaning more profit for the store. But no, they seem to insist on telling everyone that bettas are okay at room temps. Poor bettas, they're so cold they don't have enough energy to swim so no wonder they lay there looking sad. They ARE sad!

Haha, so when your husband complains about all the time you spend with the fish, you can just remind him it was his suggestion that you find a hobby.


----------



## Punki

lol Yep i tell him to go and play a game ) Hes beaten them all now so hes out of luck XD
I know petsmart at least why they dont tell people what a betta REALLY needs. When you walk into my petsmart and look to the right you see two bettas in a divided 1/2 gallon laying around, then if you look down you see about 20 crowntail/halfmoon bettas stacked on each other in cups, and on the next shelf down is the veiltails, about 30 of those cups jammed in and on each other. Then the bottom shelf has a mix of female/male veiltails about 30 cups again, so thats 90 bettas stacked in cups. So then if i walk around their wall of aquariums to see all the other types of fish in tanks, between each tank on all levels theres a betta laying in a cup, thats at least 20 more bettas. So then i realize they got WAAAY TOO MANY and just DONT look cause its upsetting, so i go to look at the tanks and on a big bottom shelf i suddenly catch sight of about 50-60 cups of veiltails just jammed into the corner under the tank section o.o I notice about 20 empty yellow tinted cups and realize that shelf is where they go to die basically =/ Ive heard horror stories but i swear my petsmart is up there on the list. Now my walmart gets about 20 in stock, keeps them closest to the sink, changes their cup water 2 imes a week and gives them large large cups, my petco, even better, only 20-30 in stock, all carded, daily water changed and on a fancy STAND that shines light down on all of them, showing off their finnage.


----------



## Sakura8

Man, your Petsmart sounds like mine. Out of all the pet stores they seem to take the worst care of all. My Petco takes pretty decent care, same thing as yours. They're on a nice display rack and not stacked on each other and they don't get in more than they can handle. I've been there where they've only had five bettas in stock and they won't get more in until they sell those five. My Wal-Mart bettas are usually in conditions similar to Petsmart but at least they never get more than 10 at a time. I've only found one seriously sick betta at Wal-Mart; she died about an hour after I brought her home. I've never seen any dead bettas at my Petco or Wal-Mart but I've found several at Petsmart. Grrrr. 

Well, I'm off to bed, going to hit the pet store early tomorrow for some filter cartridges and a few more plants. But no more bettas. I'd have to get rid of some furniture at this point to make room for them. No more bettas even if I have to close my eyes and run past the displays. Just hope I won't run into anything . . .

G'night Punki, Old Man, Electra, and all those cute little fry. :-D


----------



## Punki

goodnight Sakura


----------



## Punki

Happy one week to the oldman/electra crew~
Everyday i wake up with an urgent feeling to check on them and all are well


----------



## diablo13

Aw, just one more week and their numbers should remain steady


----------



## Punki

My duckweeds went crazy, half the tank surface is now covered by it, they like to hide in the roots and pick at it, i may have to remove some soon if it keeps it up. I still havent put the sponge filter in yet, but ill get to it eventually, so far perimeters are fine and they seem content. Its funny when i walk up and look in, their little white bodys turn and they cock their heads to look at me with those big black dotty eyes xD 
"whatchoo lookin at"


----------



## diablo13

Lol, whatchoo lookin at women? Little baby things are so cute, i saw a little baby parrot someone I know has, and once it saw it's food it wouldn't stop cheeping


----------



## Punki

lol Yeah they just look all over the place with huge eye till food comes along, so innocent XD


----------



## Punki

Theres about 5-6 in the pic here, but only a couple are easily visible xD


----------



## Punki

I wonder, is it normal for some Fry to have reddish heads while others have white heads? Is that just dependent on what they eat also? Well the 1 week mark has been well, They are eating their dinner right now.


----------



## diablo13

Hmmm, maybe it's some difference? I've never heard of it, but maybe it tells the difference between male and female? Or maybe your seeing their brains and they're the smart ones


----------



## Punki

lol, with a magnifying glass i can sometimes see a blue spot on the top of their heads, it is impossible for them to have colors showing through i think, but it makes me wonder since both parents are blue ) I cant wait for them to get bigger, like, just get visible so i can see their tails and bodies from the couch and stay peaceful that size forever!! XD Ah i wish!


----------



## diablo13

We all like the little tiny things, and it sounds like your babies have odd color things


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Aww. They remind me of tadpoles. And I love me some baby froggies ^.^


----------



## Sakura8

Happy one week birthday, little fry! You've come a long way from just a glimmer in Old Man's eye as he watched Electra.  You're doing great Punki! :-D


----------



## GunsABlazin

i hope my spawn gose as well. lol


----------



## Sakura8

I hope so, too, GunsABlazin. Looks like you had them together for a while but no go? (judging by your sig, that is)


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

I hope that everyone who is adequately prepared and knowledgeable has a good spawn. Cause babies rule!


----------



## Sakura8

I was only semi adequately prepared but I had a spawn anyway. Here's my guppy fry. The pregnant guppy I bought gave birth waaaaay earlier than I expected. So far I only have one. It's all eyeballs and a tail.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Awweee guppy baby <3


----------



## Sakura8

It's so tiny! It kept falling out the bottom of the 3-way breeder, even with the plastic bottom in it, so now it's in the netbreeder all by itself.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Awww. I wish my new guy weren't still getting adjusted/new...if I didn't have to condition him, he would be makin babies soon!


----------



## GunsABlazin

well i have a new pair on conditioning. But this is Punki's thread and not a place to speak of my attempts. lol.

I bet these little Comb tails will be beautiful!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Hahaha, Punki's log blew up into a novel.


----------



## GunsABlazin

well yea, Oldman is such a character!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

I bet the babies are gonna be just like him. XD


----------



## GunsABlazin

look like Electra, act like old man? lol


----------



## Sakura8

Ooh, if they're like that I'd totally want one if I lived closer.


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Yes!


----------



## GunsABlazin

hahaha i want one anyway.


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah, me too, but one like who looks like Electra and acts like Old Man would be a bonus.


----------



## GunsABlazin

yessss


----------



## Punki

Maybe oldman was giving me a sign. Our power went out at 1am so i was hoping the tank wouldnt cool any but it cooled to 78. I woke up to about 25 swimming fry and a few on the bottom, i panicked but then saw them moving, looking around and turning so im HOPING theyve just figured out eating stuff off the floor and it wasnt the temp change from 82 to 78 thats made some sick. But yeah last night when i walked by oldman hed made a bubblenest but there was a face inside! I tried to snap a pic with flash in the dark but its not as clear but the face is like O_O 
What an artsy daddy








Tanks slowely warming back up today and hopefully they all are okay!!!! >.<


----------



## GunsABlazin

it was a slow change, so they should be fine.


----------



## Sakura8

Old Man's being a good father, trying to teach his kids the arts as well as practical living skills, haha. But I agree with GunsABlazin, it was such a gradual change, they probably didn't notice it.


----------



## Punki

You two were right, they were maybe warmer at the bottom part but all seem fine and ate breakfast/lunch. I guess they were having late night snacks off the floor lol. Yeah oldman is only about 2 feet from their tank, That might be why hes a bubblenesting fool but i wanted him to see them grow as long as it didnt bother him lol. That guppy is adorable Sakura, looks just like a slightly larger version of a newly hatched betta lol


----------



## Sakura8

Hehe, thanks, it's so tiny so now I kind of know how you must feel with all your cute tiiiiiny little fry.  And I think it's sweet you want Old Man to see his children grow up. He's building a nest in case they come visit.


----------



## Punki

Or hes eyeing them and yelling "Get back over here, this is your home, i didnt give you permission to go there!!"


----------



## Sakura8

Haha, yeah, that could be it too. Along with, "Look both ways before you cross the tank!"


----------



## GunsABlazin

lol.. make him sound like a suburbia type dad.


----------



## Punki

So heres one of the white colored ones next to one of the brown colored ones. odd lol








and how is it possible to see blue at ALL, just weird..








Also theres one guy, who i couldnt get a good pic of but hes been swimming around with a big dot of egg yolk in his mouth for 3 hours. I keep spotting him with it. He seems fine, he isnt panicked but exactly how long does he plan to carry it before eating it? I hope its not stuck or anything, sometimes a few dots are a bit larger but he SHOULD be able to munch it down id think.


----------



## caitic10

In hope he manages to get it down. There are soooo cute!

I wish I could breed Suki and Po, but my mom is completely against me owning more fish. "Two are enough!" Gah...it kills me to read spawn logs. As soon as I move out, Im buying a breeding par! 

Just a question, how big is your tank? I want to know in case I can wear my mom down in the near future.


----------



## Punki

Mines a 10g, depending on how many fry i end up with i have a 20g to the side. Thanks


----------



## Sakura8

Awww, they are so adorable! I'm fascinated by the fact that some are light and some are dark. I wonder what that means in terms of coloring up. *rubs hands in anticipation* I can't wait to see.  And I love the little guy with the egg yolk in his mouth. It's like a kid stuffing a cupcake in his back pocket to eat later. One of my adult bettas swam around for a minute with a bloodworm hanging out of his mouth. He looked like a dog searching for someone to play tug-of-war with him.


----------



## GunsABlazin

thats an image sakura. lol


----------



## Sakura8

Hehe, believe, it was a sight to see.


----------



## GunsABlazin

So, Punki, what feeding scedule do you use?


----------



## Punki

I uh... am obsessive, i feed very small amounts alot, a few drops of infusoria culture when i see a group with less then full bellies, a couple dips of egg yolk other times, and now introduced bbs before bed. I basically feed very small amounts of different things throughout the day so that theres very little waste, along with all of the plants they pick through. Id say i open the lid and drop a drop of something in about 7 times a day. I vac daily and add 1/4 gallon after slowely. XD


----------



## GunsABlazin

thats allot of feeding! lol but thats why they are growing so well.


----------



## Punki

lol i sometimes feel i underfeed them XD hopefully its all in my head~ )


----------



## Punki

Overall i really enjoy this but im not having the best day so i will post the downside lol!
1. I cut my hand on a egg shell OW
2. cleaning the tank is EXTREMELY nervewraking for me!
3. dripping water the way i do it takes all day and alot of time, if only i had a shelf above the tank!
4. The heat making temp fluctuations worries me though i know its gradual.
5. I watch some eat egg yolk, others only come and group for the infusoria squirt, and a few bigger fry munch the bbs, so im kept busy making sure all 3 types are being fed, i cant do the "strongest survive" thought.
6. I hate using clearwrap because i have to feed so often and i have to pull it up to feed and when it gets stuck to itself UGH!
BUT on a positive note, ive only lost one fry, not sure what happened to him, i was watching them swim and i threw in some hatched bbs and the guy gulped it down but then did a nosedive to the floor and never got up. He was quite small, maybe he was just too weak, i cant win them all i guess. But some are clearly thriving and larger then the others. They are relaxing to observe. Such curious little ones.


----------



## GunsABlazin

im excited! my two just spawned this mornin!


----------



## Punki

I saw the eggs Guns Congrats!!
Im i the middle of a big water change, i siphoned one up accidentally and it was dead in the bucket. I hope it was just dead already and i siphoned its body. Its inevitable though, they cant all live and they gotta have a clean tank.


----------



## caitic10

Dont feel too bad. If every fry survived, then we would have alot of bettas on our hands.


----------



## GunsABlazin

yea, becuse my tank is so large im concidering doing the "leave the male in" method. he eats the weak or defomed, and becuse he is an adult, he is seen as alpha and the fry fight less. when i was reading about it, they had left the dad in untill the fry wher almost 2 months! but its my first, so i might not yet.


----------



## Punki

Thanks Caitic, thats true. Ive got 40-50 total so if numbers drop at this rate ill still have plenty reach adulthood. 
Guns i was thinking about that and half waiting for my male to start eating them before i removed him, i woke up the next morning and saw 2 fry and removed him thinking hed ate all of them but hed actually just moved them into the jungle of plants once freeswimming, he was being a good daddy and was so angry when i removed him. It is a bit risky though if you dont know your males fathering skills yet. I wont breed oldman again but if i did i know he was a great father so id leave him longer.


----------



## GunsABlazin

yea, i think ill wait untill my second spawen with Graphite to try leaveing him in. 
ohh i hope he had DBT genos...i want double HMs!!


----------



## Punki

Wel yesterday i did my first 50% water change, it took HOURS but for some reason they look bigger suddenly! Maybe its in my head, but even on camera, they arent little specks as much as looking like little tadpoles, their tummys get so round after a feeding and i saw one yawn last night lol!


----------



## Sakura8

It's so cute when an adult betta yawns, I can only imagine the "awwwww" factor when a fry does it.  They're *sniff* growing up so fast.


----------



## GunsABlazin

GAH!!!!! MJHGuwyhgefwouegboufeywblvurygwqpiru1234579!!!!

i have to re-condition Amy and Graphite.


----------



## Sakura8

Awwww, Guns. Isn't that the second time this has happened to you?


----------



## GunsABlazin

yees >.<


----------



## Sakura8

*hugs* I'm sorry your kids are being so difficult. Maybe third time is the charm?


----------



## GunsABlazin

yeaa...im conditioning a different male. Im going to give my Plakat HM dragon scale, Molotov, a chance.
Im worried that im stressing Graphite out, so im going to wait untill i have atleast one actualy spawn under my belt to try him again..


----------



## Sakura8

Good luck Molotov and Amethyst!


----------



## GunsABlazin

yes. i hope


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Glad to hear the spawn is still doing well! I've been off for a couple days >.<


----------



## Punki

Im a bit freaked out, when i do oldmans water changes i do 90% as to not stress him, ive been doing them every other day since the spawn. Ive noticed since spawning he bubblenests like crazy and seemed tired but i just kept with the high protein foods and figured he was tired. Today i went to feed him and i turned his light on. I dont usually, but as he was eating i saw a FRY swim up to him!!!!! Now if you track back you remember me saying that when i moved him from his little ones he spit a few out and i syphoned them back into their tank. Apparently hes hidden this one and APPARENTLY hes somehow spitting food out for his fry to eat because this fry has a brown belly, same color as the pellets and its actually a bit larger then all of its brothers and sisters in the main tank. I want to know HOW this happened. He hid it from me? Water changes he protected it? Theres NO live plants in his 3g at all and i only feed him mosquito larvae and pellets. I honestly dont know what to do, but i am SHOCKED by this. He is taking care of his one single fry very well, i relaly should have left him with his little ones. Im also shocked he hasnt snacked on it or anything. Its in excellent shape, it makes my care look silly....


----------



## Sakura8

:shock: I have a whole new level of respect for Old Man. He's like my hero now, I'm serious. This guy should have a Nature special done on him, he's got such incredible fathering instincts. He's like a cichlid when it comes to parenting. Old Man, you are awesome!

Punki, I can't imagine your reaction when you first saw that little fry. Wow, talk about a surprise. You should tell OFL about this because I've never heard of a betta going to such lengths to care for a fry.


----------



## Punki

I feel like he defied nature! I moved him to a cup for an HOUR and acclimated him to a cooler watered 3 gallon that was bare and had aq salt, I dont know how he wasnt stressed to eat the fry and i dont know HOW he got his little one to survive, and even more HOW hes been feeding it all this time, so well! Without infusoria, bbs, nothing, just mosquito larvae and pellets. No wonder hes still looking tired and bubblenesting, i put him near his little ones tank so he could watch them but he kept a little secret from me all along. He refuses not to father at least one of those fry!
I once read ofl say that her male would eat his pellet and she would not 100% say he was feeding them but he would eat the pellet and small particle would come out of his gill area and theyd eat it. I wonder if he is doing this.
I respect this old man!


----------



## GunsABlazin

hes like "its mine, dang it!"


----------



## Punki

Im sortof attached to this one fry and i cant remove it, but i hope oldman follows through because i read babies learn their behavoirs from their father and i really wanted a fry with oldmans personality. You should see the fry, when i walk up to look at oldman he does his wiggle dance and the baby kindof looks down at him then swims to the other side "Dad your so embarrassing!"


----------



## GunsABlazin

hes trying to teach the little thing 
"see, kiddow? When i wiggle like this *wiggle wiggle wiggle* the human will give me food!"


----------



## Punki

"See that blobby thing walking up, when it gets close you gotta shake your groove thing! *shakes tail*"


----------



## GunsABlazin

and the fry 
"ohhmyyygawwwd dad..yoohr soo emberrissing...awww stap with all dee wigglings!"


----------



## Punki

lol At one point in the wigglefit the fry was blown to the other side by dadies tail current XDDDDD I noticed when i gave him mosquito larvae that hed stare at them before attacking but before he was a father as soon as he saw them he attacked, i guess he was making sure it was indeed not his baby.


----------



## Sakura8

Punki, PLEASE try to get pics of Old Man and his fry? Please? I gotta see this.  Old Man and Old Man Jr.


----------



## Punki

I will try! I kept thinking "I dont want to stress oldman and have him eat it" but honestly, gravel vac, pouring water in, cupping, if that doesnt stress him a few pictures shouldnt!


----------



## Sakura8

*shakes head* He's simply amazing. What a great dad.


----------



## bettaloverforever16

I can't wait!! Old Man has some fans on his..... Fins? XD


----------



## Punki

) Well i tried from my last post till now but everytime he seen the cam hed flare and get in the way of the fry. I almost got one while he was napping but the stupid camera kept focusing on him. Ill try a video tomorrow, that should work better


----------



## Punki

Its a bit funny to look back, ive taken pics of his odd bubblenests, even a pic of him "bowing" with a little homemade "worlds greatest fishy dad" sign, and all along there was a little one in there! I feel like gonig back and looking for a dot )
Now they are both laying on oldmans fake leaf plant he loves so much. The baby was there soo oldman blew a few bubbles where the blade the baby was on meets the surface then he went to his spot. Im attached to this single fry =x


----------



## Sakura8

I'm a writer so some day when I have more publishing experience under my belt, we should write a little picture book about Old Man and his little fry together, Punki.  What a sweet, sweet story it would make.


----------



## Punki

Sounds like a plan Sakura, if only i had a better camera to focus on them both! Heres two of the best pics i got, one is oldman with the baby but its blurry and flash knoked out oldmans face. The baby is just above the leaf, and the second shows how this one is advanced, it has a tiny tail growing, the ones in the fry tank are just starting to do this but nothing so definite or obvious.


----------



## Sakura8

That is beyond words adorable and precious! "Don't worry, little one, you can sleep with your old man tonight."  And I can't believe that little guy, he looks like . . . like a betta! I guess all the attention Old Man has lavished on him has sped up his development. It must be so fun waking up and seeing how the little fry are doing. :-D So adorable!


----------



## Punki

lol I wish i could say it was fun. =P
I wake up every morning, look at the time and say in my head "please please still be alive" as i walk out to the living room and turn on their tank light. After wake up they are usually spread out and hidden, so i see 4-5 and worry my water changes were not enough or some tiny creature has hidden from me, grown, and devoured them while they slept. I then take a gallon out, and drip a gallon in. About an hour later theyve all found each other and gathered in the middle of the tank so i can see them. Then i count them and feed them, then i make sure they are eating and THEN i relax, another day = more hope XD Then the rest of the day they are active and hungry and fun to watch 
Im down to about 25-30 now, not sure if some are hiding or if ive lost some. I syphoned up a dead one day before yesterday during a big 50% water change nad floor cleaning but otherwise i havent seen bodies, if they are dead i can only assume a snail ate the remains. I expected to lose some, though i keep oldman full of protein he is old, and they are both petstore bettas so who knows the genetics they could have or if his old age could affect fry quality. Im happy with my numbers, though i get paranoid that something may be lurking and killing them i have yet to see anything, and the body i did syphon out i mignified and it looked... weak, it must have not been eating as well as the others and it was small, but no fuzz or discoloration as far as i could see so no disease at least. Ive attached myself to them as if they were one fish "the fry" but now this little daddys boy/girl has gotten me attached.


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah, I can see where it would be nervewracking too, lol. Like checking on your sleeping kid every five minutes. But at least none of your fry have died from columnaris or anything like that. I think you take too good a care for that to develop. Even in the tank I guess it's survival of the fittest.


----------



## Punki

Yeah, i hate that they release growth stunting hormones, if it wasnt for that i could do less water changes. In fact maybe thats another reason why oldmans beloved is growing faster, im not sure if adults secreet growth stunting hormones or not but if not that would explain it. Im just amazed to see a tail, even if it is mostely see through, its a general shape


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## Sakura8

It looks so cute, that little see-through tail. Now the little one no longer looks like a tadpole! I've heard about the growth-stunting hormones with guppies too but at least with guppies it's not proven yet. I think Old Man and his little one make a good case for the "don't release hormones" side of the argument.


----------



## Punki

Yeah if they stop when grown up then itd make perfect sense, because if he did, a 3g with big oldman would stunt the fry alot. Now im left wondering if i should throw in some live bbs or just feed as usual since oldman is somehow feeding his little one. It was not in my plan to try and feed an adult with his baby ) I dont want to bloat oldman but i want his little one to have food also.


----------



## Sakura8

Hmmm. I think since Old Man has done this well so far, maybe just feed as usual. He seems really determined to prove he can raise a fry all on his own, haha. If the fry was stunted or weak, I'd say yes feed the bbs but since he's actually ahead of the other fry, I think they'll both be fine as they are. Who knows, maybe the fry gets some extra nutrients from the way Old Man . . . regurgitates the pellets for it to eat. Similar to the way discus put out a weird but nutritious mucous that their fry feed on. Or the way breast milk is better than formula.


----------



## Punki

Mama oldman )
Hes bubblenesting right now as his baby sleeps on a leaf. Its like how some humans just LOVE being moms, and it fulfills them, fish are more simple minded but the same urge seems to apply. Some just look at the eggs and think food, others get worn out, dont enjoy the job so they eat the fry, then theres oldman, being relocated, in different water, in a new spot of the house, in a new tank and not giving up. I can see it as normal or lucky to have a breeding male father his fry for a month, but just strange to hold one in your mouth to relocate it then build it a home in a new tank. Well just two more days till they hit the 2 week mark!


----------



## Sakura8

Two weeks, yay! It seems like so long ago already.  Is it the four week mark that you're considered out of the danger zone? I can't remember what little I know about breeding.

And yes, you are very lucky to have a breeding male who cares for his fry like Old Man does. :-D And the little fry is lucky to have him.


----------



## Punki

Ive heard 2 weeks then the numbers are more stable. I made it through week 1 with no loss, but have lost some in week 2, hopefully its accurate and i can count my fry more confidently after this  Well its time to sleep, im up late XD goodnight~


----------



## Sakura8

Goodnight, Punki.


----------



## Punki

After PMing ofl about this daddy/son bond she mentioned that once she had a couple of fry get stuck in her net without her knowing, then got deposited into the mosquito larvae bucket where she found them 2 weeks later. Thoughi havent used the net for oldman i did use it once or twice in the fry tank to remove a larvae that was too large so i decided to check my larvae bucket outside which has a few plants from the canal in it also that were rinsed, anyway i saw a fish in there mixed with all the mosquito larvae o.o Ive since gotten it out and put it in the fry tank in a panic, then saw how it was almost double the size as my fry (though it does look like a 3 week betta i THINK) and moved it again. Its either a tiny minnow that somehow hung to a plant through a rinse and a few dumps/refills, or its a betta that adapted to a bucket outside and fed well and grew much faster then any other fry. Its in 1/4 gallon alone and lookin so tiny with that space, i threw some plants and bbs in and it ate but i have idea 100% what it is lol.


----------



## Punki

Heres a video of this mystery fry. Look like a betta to you?
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=P1150375.mp4


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## caitic10

It kind of hard to tell, but I think it's a betta....


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## bettaloverforever16

I think it's a betta, but I'm not 100% sure. It's so cute!!


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## Punki

Im also leaning towards a betta but you see its size, its twice as big as my fry in the try tank. its had free access to larvae, infusoria, daphina, ect for this 10-12 days on a constant basis. If it IS a betta and i ever in my life decide to breed again, itll be outdoors because the growth is amazing compared to indoor tank growth.


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## Sakura8

It looks like a cute lil betta to me. And I agree, its growth is amazing because it had a whole bunch of critters to feed on outside. How funny, you're finding fry in the most interesting places.


----------



## Punki

lol every container of water is thoroughly flashlighted from now on!


----------



## Sakura8

You have some globetrotting fry there, Punki. Imagine being so young and going off to see mosquito larva bucket all on its own.  Like sending your grade schooler to Europe alone.


----------



## Punki

lol yes, and then that gradeschooler comes back a teenager! lol! They really do get places... Watch out Sakura, there may be a oldman spawn in your tank )


----------



## Sakura8

Haha, if I find one, sorry I'm keeping it. If I didn't live so far away I'd totally be begging you for an Old Man fry. :-D


----------



## caitic10

Lol, 'world travelling fry'

You've certainly had an adventure with this spawn.


----------



## Punki

Im 100% sure id give ya one also  Id found a bunch of large nematides in my old infusoria culture that i thought had failed because id only put dry oak leaves in spring water but i put those in there and they overate ) They are all hanging out in the middle of the tank with full little bellies, i think they like those worms more then they like bbs!


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## Sakura8

And after all the work you went through to culture bbs, too. Just like kids, they want mac and cheese out of a box after you fix a nice homemade dinner. :-D


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## Punki

lol good comparison and yep caitic today when i saw that huge fry i aloud whispered under my breath "What in the WORLD is going on here..." Its a rollercoaster of interesting things and amazing things 
Bbs hits the water, wiggles a couple minutes then dies, once its went past their face they dont bother so it sinks to the bottom and dies, then they ignore it, these worms swim throughout and live/reproduce so much better for my tank also


----------



## Punki

Today is 2 week mark! Ill post some pictures later of the fry tank! The one oldman is caring for is doing great, growing rapidly and the one i found in the bucket outside is thriving also, (hopefully its a betta fry xD)


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## bettaloverforever16

Old Man is the best dad ever =D Can't wait to see the pics!


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## Punki

Okay a few i just snapped, wish i had a better camera! Ah i didnt post anymore of oldmans litle one because when it sees the camera it runs and that makes oldman chase him down and give him a good yelling at D; Oldman swims up on him so scary like then just stares at him and swims off =x








Not sure why they either have a blue/red/or green tint to them, tiny fry arent supposed to have much color








more visible 








pretty blue/green wondering where fat red has been eating.








LOLOL baby yawning after coming out from under a fake leaf, cute and funny XD Such a shocked look!








im not holding food so hes headed back to bed.








*hugs strand of java moss*
Happy two weeks little ones, a few of you have survived my newbie care and are doing oldman and electra proud!
BTW Electras 100% healed and back to good


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## NCPanthersgurl

Awwwweeee cute :3


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## Sakura8

Yay, two weeks! Happy two week birthday little fry! They look so adorable and they're starting to look like fish now! Punki, you've done such an awesome job.  And I'm so glad Electra's all healed up, she's too pretty to have nipped fins. Old Man is the best betta dad out there.


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## Punki

I had just finished feeding them and sat down to watch some TV and i glanced over and saw a large fry (?) so i look over wondering whats white, bigger then my fry, and swimming around and its a FRY! How have i missed this big fry for so many days?!? I have to wondr, ive never found bodies, and the small fry hang in a group in the opening of the duckweed but maybe theres a bunch of large fry hiding in the mass amount of duckweed coverage.... I snapped 2 pictures of this fry, one comparing it to a fry i considered "large" before spotting this one, and i took a closeup shot of it that im pretty proud of. 
Heres the comparison, the smaller fry is fuzzy but he looks like the pictures above in RL, small but as you said sakura, looking a bit more like a fish ) Now this large one that just swam out of the duckweed randomly and was impossible to miss is the one im shocked by and excited about 









and a picture of it in detail alone. Are those scales? when do they get their scales? 








Oh and its surface breathing!!!!


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## Sakura8

:shock: It looks like a little betta! And it does look like it has scales 'cause it's all sparkly! Wow, you just keep getting surprise after surprise with these fry! Amazing. And that IS a great photo, nice detail. I love the big startled eyes like, "My closeup already? Wait, I'm not ready!" I wonder, I have a feeling you're right, you might have a little shoal of large fry hiding somewhere in that duckweed, just like they would in the wild. I bet there's a lot of infusoria deep inside a forest of duckweed, maybe that accounts for the large size?


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## Punki

Sounds about right, when it came out from the duckweed it went to the surface and inhaled and i probobly looked silly from its point of view ) Im so happy to see this  Here i was thinking the ones that hang together in the middle opening were my only/strongest fry, but they actually may be the weaker ones


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## Sakura8

Yeah, they may hang in the middle of the tank because they aren't strong/fast enough to hunt and they know you drop food there. The stronger ones know they don't need the extra food because there's enough in the duckweed. What happens to the bbs that the fry don't eat? Maybe they end up in the duckweed too.


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## Punki

I know some of it gets in the duckweed, as ive moved the duckweed over and some fell that had not been found and died in it. This ones stomach is quite large and its constantly grazing, i dropped some of those worms in and she ate them way faster then the little ones could even try o.o The worms are nice though, they breed like crazy and live in freshwater and feed off bacteria 
That fry basically walked out and said "THIS is how a 2 week old fry should look" lmao!! its ahead of the game, )


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## Sakura8

I still can't believe where you're finding these fry. Buckets, with Old Man. *shakes head* If this is the only time you breed bettas, it's certainly going to be an experience to remember, haha.  At about what age do the fry start to color up?


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## Punki

Im so upset, today i look in and see maybe 3-4 fry, i look really hard everywhere and no more, then i see a dragonfly nymphs transparent shell at the bottom. It ate my fry then turned into a dragonfly i guess, i dont see any dragonflys in my house thugh. But it ate my babies =[ I dont want to breed oldman and electra again, shes finally healed and oldman is old, its too risky. I hope that was the only dragon fly nymph in my tank and the damage is finished. I was so careful to drain and strain my live foods that i got from my mosquito bucket to avoid exactly this. Ive had a bad day, then i came home hoping that this mornings absence of them was just them hiding, but theyre gone so i cant watch them =[ got the big one i found last night still and a few smaller ones grazing, maybe 3 smaller ones and the one larger one, then the one in oldmans tank and the one i retrieved from the bucket. I feel so sad, not just with the fry but with other things but this really lets me down. How did i miss it. =[
Edit: im reading the dragonfly nymphs can shed their skin a few times before flying so it may still be in there. I need to find it asap, this duckweeds in my way!!!


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## NCPanthersgurl

Aww I'm so sorry


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## Punki

I have a few fry left but im lost on how to save them, remove the duckweed and possibly catch fry up in the process, syphon the fry into another container as i see them, i just dunno, i got 4-5 left as far as i can see and would like to save them if possible >.< Ive stared and stirred the duckweed around but i dont see any dragonfly nymph, but its outer shell haunts me, i know its in there, it couldnt have flown out because i have the tank clearwrapped. Its in there, hunting, as i type =[


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## NCPanthersgurl

Hmm. Maybe try to siphon water out into something else, cup the fry and put them in it {less water change stress} and then drain the tank? Hmm. But try to remove as much duckweed as possible first? Man, that's such a tricky situation. :/


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## Punki

Its hard to cup fry since they are so tiny, a few are large, i found 2 more large ones like last night, but the smaller ones ugh, my gravel vac syphon is quite wide, but i dunno if theyd survive that twisty ride from their tank to a smaller tank with the same water. I pmed ofl since she does outdoor spawns but i think shes afk. I just dunno, im staring at the tank nonstop till i hear an email then running to the computer =/


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## NCPanthersgurl

I can't blame you :/ Got a turkey baster? Maybe you can get them that way? I'm not sure. :/ Can you find out specific habits of the nymph? Maybe you can provide the fry extra shelter?


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## Punki

I do have a baster but the stupid thing bubbles and stuff when i pull it out of water, nymphs hide in plants and reach out and pinch onto fry then eat them. It can even injure an adult betta. so many ppl have lost fry this way ive read through google but nobody seems to say how they saved their last remaining 4-5 fry =/


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## NCPanthersgurl

There has to be a way to get them...


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## Punki

Found a nymph the size of the skin shed off a nymph, hopefully its the one and only in the tank. Not sure if i should search for more in the duckweed or just let the remaining fry enjoy their tank. theres 5-6 in the tank i can find. Syphoned the nymph out on sight, hes in a bucket and i give him evil eyes when passing....


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## NCPanthersgurl

You let it live? I probably wouldn't have, lol...

But I'm glad you found him. I hope he was the only one, and that your remaining babies are all okay.


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## Punki

I want to throw it on the ground and stomp it but my mom is visiting ) I look at it, about half an inch long, so small to eat so many =[ It left some of the bigger fry though, i guess only the strong do survive. The numbers are managable, 6-7 in a 10g should be fine, very roomy, they should grow fast, i just cant help but feel horrible and to blame, but i think the bad day in general has just left everything a bit to negative. I just enojyed watching them so much, and i knew this was my one and only big chance. Well anyways, the betta i found in my mosquito larvae bucket and brought back in is doing good, quite large, looks like a month old fry. Oldmans personal favorite living with him is doing well, oldman teaches him many things and its interesting to watch them interact and see a "fighting fish" show love for its little one, and the picture of the large betta that swam out of the duckweed in the fry tank last night, its okay, and actually theres two of it, they are the same size and stick together, i still have them, a few smaller white ones and 2 reddish ones. I hope all of these reach adulthood.
Everywhere i read, was the same, people woke up, noticed a huge drop in fry, then found this bug and then had 5-10 fry left, ive got 7-8 i think scattered about i hope more.


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## NCPanthersgurl

I hope so too. I'm sorry your day has been so bad. But on the bright side, you do still have some babies left. You'll just have to grow them up right


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## Punki

Yeah im glad there are some left in the end, i hope they can keep on living and no more nymphs make it in >.<

RIP to the little fry that didnt make it, i worked so hard for you guys, i really wanted to give all of you an awesome life. I know you would have been pretty and had crazy personalities, your be spunky like electra or grumpy like oldman but i went natural, and while this worked amazingly well for your water and food supply it allowed nature to overtake my care and that stupid nymph got you. Hopefully a nymph death is fast, i wont google the details just in case, but i told myself id not get attached but i was, everyday i looked forward to mealtimes, you were all so cute, learning how to do things. Ill miss looking over to a full tank. =/
(sorry for the mooshyness, i just feel so bad for it >.<)


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## NCPanthersgurl

Nah it's understandable. You put a lot of effort in to be foiled by that ugly little bastard.


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## Punki

Yeah its so gross, little twitchy legs and big old nasty eyes. It went after my smaller fry, but the 2 big ones and some smaller ones survived, all of them are scavaging nematodes of the gravel spots on the floor of the tank, i wonder if the tank care changes with less, im already realizing food will be hard to minimize for so few fish. if that stupid thing didnt get into my tank id have had at least 30+ fry. SIGH!


----------



## NCPanthersgurl

Sads. Well maybe just keep an eye out on how much their eating? Trying to cut it back could suck >.<


----------



## Punki

Yeah i dont want to overfeed and nasty up the tank. Hard to see any of them, have to look a couple minutes.


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## Sakura8

Punki! *biiiiiig hug* I'm so sorry that stupid nymph did this to you! T_T I smash you now, nymph! *squish* You worked so hard and you were doing so well. At least Old Man Jr and your big fry made it, that's a relief. But I'm so sorry this happened. Please don't give up on breeding, maybe in another year or so you'll feel like trying again.


----------



## Punki

Thanks Sakura. I never really planned to breed as a hobby, it was just a goal to simply carry on oldmans genes. But i guess your right, in a year or so these fry may be grown and aging and i may repeat the process. I just need these fry to survive now. 
Heres the culprit, look at how evil it is. So nasty...








and oldman holds his little one close to sleep on this sad rainy night.


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## Jirothebetta

Those dragon fly nymphs are the devil :evil: I'm so sorry about your babies, but at least you caught him in time...


...I love the picture of old man with oldman Jr. it has to be the most precious thing I've ever seen...took me a moment to spot the little critter though LOL


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## Punki

lol his tank is a bit scratched up, i got it used, hard to get a nic pic through the scratches, oldman loves that fake plant, hes had it since i got him, he always sleeps in it, but now this baby thinks its to sleep on also ) Usually oldman sleeps on a leaf nearby but tonight he sleeps on the same one. Yes im glad to have found it before all were gone, but its hard not to be frustrated that i couldnt have found it...yesterday when there was 15 or more fry. Cant be helped though now, the ones remaining have lots of space and food and im glad they are okay. Funny to think that fry is 3x bigger then when it was hatched out, but they still are tiny


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## Sakura8

Ewww, that nymph is hideous! I never liked dragonflies and now I like them even less. :/ But that picture of Old Man and Jr is the sweetest thing, I love how Old Man's chin is resting on the leaf. He truly senses how precious his little one is.


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## Punki

He often stares at it like this, and when i feed him he leads the baby to the leaf like that then expells dust out of his mouth and gills, it falls onto the leaf and the little one then munches it up, getting a dark belly. Tonight he fell asleep after feeding it. Sometimes he sees it swimming fast and chases it down, then stares at it for a second then swims off, i think hes telling it to slow down, or instinct of chasing live food plus the realization that its his baby clash, but he never eats it, just watches it.


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## Sakura8

I've never seen such a bond between an animal and its young. You can tell Old Man is happy, his color has become so vibrant.


----------



## vette91

that picture of oldman and oldman jr is amazing.


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## Punki

I turned off their light early then came back two hours later to find even less fry and another larger dragonfly nymph, im going to try and remove the remaining couple of fry =/ 
Ty, i was happy to get that pic


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## Sakura8

Grrrrrrrrr, I wanna just smash those nymphs . . . how dare they pick on Punki's fry! Thank goodness Old Man Jr. is safe with his, er, old man.


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## bettaloverforever16

I would have been too scared to touch, I do NOT do bugs. I would have had my brother kill it right away.

At least Old Man, Old Man Jr, and the rest of your fry live.


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## Punki

Just an update, its 4:42am, after finding the second large dragonfly nymph and removing it i found two more smaller ones so i grabbed a 2.5g tank, air stone syphoned tank water into it, then carefully syphoned each fry, my husband sat up all night helping me in the search for them. I think we counted 8 that we were able to syphon into the 2.5g 4 are large, 4 are small, all are white/blue except one big brown one. I rinsed my small thing of java moss and squeezed/rinsed my marimo moss ball and put those in this barebottom tank, and they are all hiding in it. None were killed by the syphoning, they are just scared. Hopefully this stress doesnt kill them tonight. I will just do daily big water changes in this 2.5g for the next week or two depending on how fast they grow, and while im doing that im tearing the 10g down, cleaning it, leaving it in the sun, cleaning the gravel and leaving it in the sun also, i threw out all the duckweed in anger. After looking in the tank without all of it i could see TINY little critters with legs that look like dragonfly nymphs but in smaller form, then i realized i did notice them before but i thought the fry would eat them as they were so so tiny, but i guess not, and i guess they grew up. The tanks infested with nymphs but 8 fry from it are safe, along with oldman JR (catchy) and mosquito bucket fry lol so 10 fry. Started out with 50, i can live with 10 i guess. Tomorrow ill search the tank some more for any hidden fry but its late and wed looked 30 minutes without a fry so it was quitting time. The annoying thing is that even just carefully syphoning the fry got a couple of the tiny tiny leggy critters into the 2.5G but if the bigger fry dont eat them tonight il try and remove them as i see them before they grow. Right now a fry COULD eat them if it wanted.


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## Sakura8

Ugh, those nymphs are a plague! I'm glad you were able to safely get the fry out. That was sweet of your hubby to help you. Hopefully this is the end of the nasty nymphs. Do you think they came in on the plants? 

You could call the mosquito bucket fry Squito (I know, super creative, huh? ;-) ). Wouldn't it be funny if Old Man Jr turned out to be a female?

On the bright side, at least 10 is a manageable number to raise, 40 might have been a bit overwhelming. Not a very bright side but . . .


----------



## Jirothebetta

Ugh, I'm so sorry punki, those stupid dragon fly larva...how did they manage to get in your tank in the first place?


----------



## Punki

I can only assume through plants, i QT them for 2 weeks with every other day water changes but it was an outside 5g bucketb so i guess some were laid at the last moment. =/


----------



## Creat

Gawd dragonfly's are just not fun how dare they eat the fry  I hope the ones you got will be alright


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## Punki

I know right! I wouldnt be so bad if they werent so brutal and sneaky about it. My fry were happy curious little guys, and this nasty thing took full advantage of their curiosity. So far 8 fry still going since the transfer, plus oldman JR and Squito (thanks sakura lol) so 10 out of the 50 that hatched. fed them bbs but they werent as enthusiastic as usual, some ate some didnt but im hoping its just the move stress. The ones that didnt eat have been picking at the marimo ball so i guess they are grazing at least. I really hope they all make it as well. Sad to think i didnt have any loss the first two weeks other then the ones killed by those nymphs =/


----------



## Punki

Im going to post pics later hopefully. The tank they are in is round so some angles just suck but their growth is amazing, they are about this long now ____ head to tail, i just did a 50% water change then fed them and they all ate a ton of bbs, orange bellies! They actually look like they might explode. I really am trying to give just enough but its hard to measure bbs  Got a filter in there today also and temp is at a steady 81-83. Its sad that i lost so many but its nice to be able to see these ones, the only weird thing is that i always looked at the small ones, i had no clue i had these huge fry in the tank hiding out until the nymph ate the small weaker ones so when i look at them they shock me. Just from yesterday i see a growth, and now with them filling up more then usual on bbs and having a 50% water change, tomorrow they will be even larger  I have one that just makes the others look small, this one overeats and looks alittle more then 3 weeks old on the charts and its only 2 weeks 3 days, 3 other large ones are on track and the last few are smaller, i still have to really watch out for them when cleaning. Im feeling much more optimistic today, i did my water change on Electra, then carefully changed oldmans and oldman JR's. When i started cleaning oldmans/OMjr oldman started chasing OMjr and i thought hed eaten him but i refilled the water and oldman started looking ofr him, found him, chased him down then looked at him, then went to take a nap, i guess he wasnt trying to eat OMjr after all. I then siphoned the 10g frytank and checked buckets for any fry id missed last night, but no luck, i guess i got all the survivors. Anyway, yeah pics later, suddenly i dont have dots, or lint or tadpoles but i have little fish


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## Sakura8

Little fish! Little bettas with tails. It's so amazing how fast they grow, it will never cease to amaze me. 

BTW, how do you culture infusoria?


----------



## Punki

Its official, Oldman has 2 fry with him. I kept thinking the fry would look differentone day to the next, but just now i was looking at one in the corner of the tank and saw oldman laying on the leaf with the other! So there has been 2 in there the whole time!!!
Yep they look like little bettas with tails 
I cultured 3 water bottles of infusoria, in one i put dried oak leaves and tank water in and let it sit near a window for two weeks, then i saw critters. The second one i threw some dying plant clippings into and when the bacteria bloomed and it got all cloudy, i threw in duckweed to speed up the infusoria population, the third, i took the leaves off strawberry tops and threw them all into the bottle then filled it with tankwater, its still alittle cloudy but i see the worms and other things starting to show up so itll be good soon. At this point i can only feed it to the runts as a snack between meals, the bigger ones just look for bbs all day really.
I had purchased some decapsulated BBS that was nonhatching by mistake, ive been avoiding it and feeding only live bbs but i kept reading the decap unhatching BBS was a bit more nutritios because no nutrients were lost hatching, anyways i soaked those and put them in. They suck to the bottom but then the fattest biggest one started eating and within 15 minutes they were all grazing on the decapsulated BBS! I think ill make a point to feed it once a day, since it doesnt move its not "live" so it will make the switch to dry food easier in the future.


----------



## BETTA DET

I read this whole thread and have been paying attention to it daily, Im routing for Old Man and his kids. I'm actually addicted to this thread.


----------



## Punki

Aw thanks, im hoping for the best also  So far the remaining are thriving, they seem happier in this tank, maybe because they arent having to hide from anything. They swim, go up for air, explore together ect  I do have one that ive named miss piggy, she eats till she looks like shes going to pop. Shes the tank vacuum lol Ive taken a pic of her but she wont come near the camera, shes too busy, yes you guessed it, eating =x So her pics alittle blurry, anyways heres a few pics 








I ended up stealing a piece of Electras 2 month old indoor personal duckweed so theyd have a few small things to hide under, its looking ta me like im crazy 








I transferred bucket betta into the fry tank today, his water was a bit cool and i ran out of small heaters, hes loving his space, dont let his pouty face fool ya.








its miss piggy, the largest and fattest of them all. Full of BBS lol








This is a picture of the first fish from the side. Hes one of the smallest ones, his look of awe over the ammonia meter is adorable


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## Sakura8

Old Man's been so clever, hiding those fry from you. So that ups your total to 11, that's good. Miss Piggy is adorable, she's all eyeballs and stomach in the first pic. They look like fish! I love their tails, they look like little betta tails now.

Thanks for the tips on infusoria. I have platies now (looking to rehome the guppies) so I just wanted to be prepared when one of them gives birth.


----------



## Arashi Takamine

Rereading the last few threads I just wanna say I'm sorry that those horrible insects got most of the fry but I'm glad you managed to save elevan of them.
Old Man's a sneaky daddy hiding two kids from you.
The last little one in the picture looks like his/her mom already.


----------



## BlueEyes

Like many others, I've just read through this whole thread. The spawning and raising experience seems like a rollercoaster. 

I'm so sorry those worthless bugs got your little babies. That sucks. At least you still have eleven. 

Old Man, you're a ninja, and a great dad. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Punki

Thanks  Ive still not completely emptied the frytank yet, i keep searching for signs of fry life, im 99% positive i got them all though, i just dont want to toss any out by mistake, they do hide incredibly well. Very true, it does have Electras form, i really dunno if ill be able to part with any of these guys =x 
Shh dont tell my husband =x


----------



## Punki

lol Blue oldman surely agrees ) He refused to give up his little ones xD It really is a rollercoaster. I usually post about my fish on facebook also, my family knows im "the fish freak" these days but my sister pointed out that since i got oldman my days have either been really good or really bad but interesting to have either way, very true


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## Punki

Theyve all remembered my *tap tap feed* method to let them know food is incoming, i guess the new environment had them confused, but they all gathered tonight for the feast to drop. Its really enjoyable to watch their little bellies get so fat. In an adult betta this look would be extremely bloated lol.
Bucket betta is the only one with not only a tail but fins as well, you can see them in the pic above. While all the others love on the marimo and sleep he likes to swim the surface and munch/practice breathing. I guess he doesnt fit in just yet.


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## Sakura8

He looks so iridescent and sparkly and so grown up already. I think that's awesome they've come to recognize your signals too. It must be something to see them gather there waiting for food.


----------



## Punki

I stole the idea from OFL she said she does this asap and by a week most grasp the procedure, some never will but most do lol. At least the nymph left me with the largest, strongest, smartest ones. 
Yeah bucket betta looks about the same length as miss piggy but hes just smaller and ahead in fin growth, maybe miss piggy is a big fat male and bucket betta is actually a long slender female.
Oh btw i meant to add, about the infusoria, besides it gonig clear, you can sniff it, i always do this, its an offputting smell but not a rotten smell, more like a really concentrated sweet and grassy smell


----------



## Sakura8

They ARE smart little fry, aren't they?  

I'm going to set up some infusoria right away. I think one of my new platies may give birth in a few days. Somehow I end up with the pregnant fish right from the store without even meaning to. The tank they were in was dark and I was in a hurry so I didn't pay attention to which platy the employee caught. 

I also set a bucket out to culture mosquito larvae but it's been almost a week and I don't see anything. :/ Maybe I'm in a mosquito free zone because I live within a few miles of a mosquito control center.


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## Punki

eek! I have the backyard canal so im a swampy mosquito mess. Ive read its best to fill it with rainwater or old tank water, and to throw some dirt and leaves in. It can take 5-7 days to get baby mosqutos after that. Usually if it rains in an empty bucket of mine and i dont dump it, a week later ill have mosquito larvae. I hope you get some soon, i really love just walking out and scooping food, well not LOVE it because i get bitten )


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## Sakura8

Do the larvae appear at the surface? I did toss some leaves in there and now the water's so murky I can barely see the bottom of the bucket.

Hehe, I'm off to bed now so I'll check back in the morning for all the latest Old Man and fry news.  Night, Punki.


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## GunsABlazin

yes, the ML will be at the top. They are black and you can see them wiggle if you mess with the water.


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## Punki

Id say give it a bit longer to settle. Im really wanting to go net/coffee filter some small buggys for my fry today from the bucket but im so scared a dragonfly nymph will slip in somehow. Nothing online tells me their beginning hatched size >.<


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## Jirothebetta

http://www.naturenorth.com/dragonfly/DOM/Images/02_life_cycle.jpg

This should give kind of an Idea...I don't think they are ever microscopic but they do start out pretty small....


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## Punki

Ugh so gross =x These things i find in my mosquito bucket have three legs on each side and they kinda look like they are trying to walk but they just swim around. They are so small i have to squint to view them and use a magnifying glass to see legs. The fry ate the ones id transferred thank goodness. Grats again Jiro, cant wait to watch your fry grow


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## Jirothebetta

O.O they sound freaky, but I have no clue what those could be, at least your little fish can make a snack out of them ;-).

And THANX XD I can't wait to see your fry grow up either! Oldman and Electra are both awesome fish :-D


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## Punki

Thanks  Ill have some colorful blue combtails, maybe a red or two, thats what im expecting at least, but who knows for sure. When i look at their tail shapes some have the female veiltail shape while others fan out like a CT. I cant wait to see how they turn out but at the same time, its almost over once it at the most exciting part xD 
I did end up cupping some larvae water and pouring it through a net, then pouring the filtered water through a coffee filter. Got about 10 tiny mosquito larvae, a few bloodworms and one of those nasty leggy things, now that ive googled it might be a daphna. Either ways they were all gobbled up, mostely by squito the bucket betta and miss piggy XD It was fun, i think ill do it again this evening and just do bbs for lunch/late night snack


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## Punki

breakfast was the decapped bbs, you can see them around the fry and see them in its tummy. This was miss piggy i believe, after digesting last nights fatness. Now shes quite plump again after lunch xD


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## Jirothebetta

I love seeing the little babies with their full tummies, so cute and see through, its a very reassuring sign that they are eating good, it lets you know that all is well ;-) I also love how your little ones are already getting iridescent colors at such a young age...THEY ARE SOOO CUTE!!! XD


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## Punki

Bucket betta is red but puts of a green shine, miss piggy is always a light blue shine, a smaller one puts off a green/blue. Only have one dark one with no iridescent color to him. Haven't checked oldmans 2, he doesnt like me messing with them too much xD I wonder why they have this, it is indeed early i think?
Edit: just googled, a breeder posted a pic of his 3 1/2 week old fry and it was giving off a bit of color also, mine arent three weeks but a couple look it so maybe it is normal, or just lucky )
Its quite reassuring, and really neat, you can actually count the decap BBS in the tummy with this one lol


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## Punki

Oldmans fry are being mean to him. I see them poking out of the fake plant here and there, hes searching the tank for them over and over, using his fins to sweep the debris on the floor, and i think he spotted them in the plant and he cant fit but he got as close as he could, then wagged his tail in a similar manner to how he did when hed be nesting and electra would appear to watch at a distance. A "come here and look" movement, different from food wiggledance and extreme excitement BREED WITH ME dance. Hes built them a new bubblenest so he keeps adding to it, searching for them, seeing them and trying to get them to come out but they just hide and giggle in the plant =x
Oldman: come little ones, ive built you a new playhouse"
kids: no! we like your plant better!


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## Jirothebetta

XD poor old man, he's being such a good daddy ;-)


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## Punki

Yes he is, he wiggles when i walk by begging for food much more often then before. Its as if hes saying 
"Ive got kids! i need more then 2-3 pellets a feed!"


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## Punki

Hm, bucket aka squito has swim bladder.. Going to have to google this.. Last night i noticed him floating but figured he was just grazing the surface, today was the same, but this evening i watched him fight to the bottom, grab some fallin bbs and float back up to the surface. Ive read bbs can sometimes do this and some fry grow out of it. Ill give him a fighting chance as he was fine until he started eating bbs.


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## Jirothebetta

Awww...poor squito...I sure hope he pulls through...


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## Punki

Yeah, he keeps hiding under a couple of lone duckweeds, it must be scary stuck at the top =/


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## Punki

I call him sharky








Miss piggy next to my smallest fry








Miss piggy deciding to poop when i try and get a better pic of the smallest frys colors. Her poop looks the same going out as going in o.o








Close up of the smallest hunting for foods








Squito struggling with his swimbladder, he reaches bottom and grabs a bbs then floats up, the others look at him funny =[


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## BlueEyes

They're so cute!


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## Sakura8

Squito's so red! And wow, there definitely is a difference in size between the littlest fry and Miss Piggy. I hope Squito is okay, though. :/ Hang in there, Squito, shake off that SB issue. You can do it!


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## vette91

They have so much color! i'm suprised!


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## Punki

Same! Its like a super early sneak peek at their colors. Squito is red/brown and shimmers green, the smallest fry is a bluish green and the rest give off an electra blue at the moment. Not sure why they are showing so soon, i didnt do anything amazing or different then the norm. Their mommy is quite unusually vibrant and looking closely her scales are so thick and almost look layered or..armored? Sort of like how dragons scales look. But a female having such colors maybe helps make a difference. Oldmans two are both like sharky and squito, a brownish red. Miss piggy is probably a male. I was reading today that the males tend to be larger the first month and then the females catch up in month two. But until i see a long fin its Miss piggy. )


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## Sakura8

I love how you can see the decap bbs in their little bellies. It's so interesting how they can shimmer and show color and yet also be transparent at the same time.


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## Punki

lol Yes, i sometimes count the ingested bbs xD miss piggy always has at least 12 in her tummy. They are like......bubbles, transparent but putting off a slight color


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## Sakura8

Bubbles. Yup, that's a good comparison. Cute, sparkly little bubbles stuffed full of bbs. And 12, my goodness, Miss Piggy is well-deserving of her name.


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## Punki

I just did a thorough floor cleaning because she was grazing on the dead bbs from this morning still  
Shes not a picky one at all! Shes poking at the ground but theres nothing there, they all are so confused staring at the floor lol!!! Ill bbs them up before bed, its almost ready.
Squito is still a floater, he isnt round bellied like the others, he almost makes me think hes got bad eyesight. You know how a filter makes tiny bubbles on the surface? I see him chomp them all the time, i guess they shimmer in the light? Maybe hes swallowing air? :roll:
I hope to wake up with him swimming normally but im not so sure.
A positive note is that everyday i recognize a fry from the day before, i can tell all but a few apart. This is both good and bad because now i have attached, but its more fun this way >.>


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## Punki

Miss piggy is gross, i just checked on her and she was trying to eat a poo i missed. her motto is "Eat now ask questions later" She gobbles up everything then spits it out if she dont like it. Her attitude has helped the others do the same but still, thats just gross miss piggy =x


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## Sakura8

Haha, I hope that girl develops some standards as she gets older. Blech, Miss Piggy.


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## Punki

At this rate she will be the first to be separated, she eats way more then her share =x
Oh yeah i was messaging ofl today and she said that there's a possibility if oldman doesn't eat his 2 they could be permanently housed together, she said her best daddies stay with their fry even once adults and it looks nice having a tank full of males. This is really interesting! She said i could transfer the fry and daddy together when they are bigger and there shouldnt be issues. Only if either of his fry are females, then she said the likely outcome would be him building a bubblenest, her swimming over and them embracing randomly, without the nip/chase process. I love my oldman but i dont want to breed him again, so if either of his fry are female ill remove them but if male, i plan to see how they do together, itd be really neat to have males safely housed together father and sons.


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## Sakura8

That _would_ be really fantastic if Old Man and his sons could stay together. He's taken such good care of them so far, it would be a fitting reward for all his hard work. Did OFL have anything to say about Squito and his floating problems?


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## Punki

I hadnt discovered it until later in the evening and i think she had already logged for the night. I wish i could just epsom salt him but thatd probably kill him. If it doesnt go away my options are to cull or wait till hes older and try epsom salt, if it works hed need epsom salt his entire life/see if obvious deformitys show later and then cull. If it is the bbs he will either recover or not digest it and die. Some breeders cull when they see sbd but others wait it out. Unless hes got obvious deformities i dont think ill cull, but if i try epsom salts when hes older and it has no effect, i may have no choice, being unable to go down at all and trying all the time cant be too fun.
I rinse my bbs really well everytime and the decap non hatching bbs i was told to soak for 3-5 minutes but i always soak it for 20 minutes to be safe so im not sure what the problem could be.


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## Sakura8

:/ Those are some tough choices, Punki. If it's the bbs, could you separate him now so you can feed him something different?


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## Punki

I just threw in some infusoria so he has surface snacks at least, then fed the bbs as usual then watched him, hes having less difficulty now! Still swim bladder but hes able to comfotably stay about an inch below the surface for a minute or so without visible effort to stay down. Earlier today he was a full on floater whod have to dive down and scrape his face on the floor only to be pulled back up. Its much more gradual now. Im optimistic about him now. 
I could cup him if needed, but i had him cupped after i found him in the bucket and though he was the biggest, the others soon outgrew him, hes the only one to have not only his tail fin but his top and bottom fins coming in as wel, but it seems his growth was stunted by the cup. I changed out 90% of his cup water daily but i still think it stunted him a bit. I guess its like how breeders jar their bettas at a point and growth slows and it brings out finnage. Hes small with more finnage. But at his age maybe that stunt made his swimbladder a bit upset. Ill find out more from ofl tomorrow hopefully.


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## Sakura8

I'm glad he seems better, that's definitely hopeful news. I'm sure OFL will have some helpful insight, she always seems to. 

Well, I'm off to bed a little early tonight so I'll talk to you tomorrow. G'night!


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## Punki

lol same, i tned to wait till my toddler is asleep to do anything major to my tanks then i sit up all night enjoying myself but tomorrow were going swimming! I should already be asleep actually, oops =x Goodnight


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## Sakura8

Have a great time swimming. :-D


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## vette91

I didn't know that you could for any reason keep males together! I know i'm a little bit late on the conversation because I was asleep haha but thats really interesting!


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## Punki

It was alright Sakura, got a bit burnt and my toddler was scared of hte water so swhe stayed attached the whole time xD
OFL recommended epsom salting squito regardless of his age, and he may live a healthy life, at the surface. Im unsure what to do with him, ill qt him this evening in epsom salt and hope for the best. His kind is culled unless just "special" to the owner. Not sure id enjoy a life at the surface, but i dont want to play god either, i dunno D; Hes still a floater this evening =/


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## BetterBetta

Punki this spawn log is just so inspiring to me! From Old Man caring for his kids to that awful nymph, this spawn has been full of unexpected twists! And I hope Squito turns out okay, maybe he'll grow out of it


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## Punki

Thanks, its quite an adventure Went out for a day and came home to immediately clean bottom/feed them. all but squito are good little pigs, tonight ill put him in a cup next to them so he can at least see them while in treatment, hopefully its not too much of a shock to him. Then i can feed him mosquito larvae for a few days since they tend to float up often and hope he ate an eggshell and it passes.


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## Sakura8

Aw, sorry you got sunburnt, Punki. Hopefully the epsom salt helps Squito. I hope you don't have to cull him, I'm glad you're giving him every chance to get better.


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## Punki

Hes aggravating me actually. When i dropped in some microworms instead of bbs since i didnt feel like messing with the shell issues he swam down...ate...ate....ate...5 minutes later swam back up. then back to floating the surface and grabbing air. DO YOU HAVE SBD OR NOT SQUITO!? I havent epsom'd him yet because i dont want to do it needlessly D;


----------



## BetterBetta

Squito and his SBD problems seem to be a little bipolar, eh?:-? It seems as if his little body can't decide what to do! Well I do wish you the best of luck with that, maybe he'll grow out of it, seeing as its a little on and off right now. 

And maybe its good to hold off on the epsom right now, like I said he may grow outta it (fingers crossed!).


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## GunsABlazin

perhaps its the BBS that are causing him to have a little SBD?


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## Punki

Hes back to floating after microworms, i tried feeding him mosquito larvae only for lunch and he still floated after. I think its just eating anything at all affects it or... IS HE A BETTA? i think so... but some plants DID go into the plant qt /larvae bucket and they came from the canal out back, where theres many minnows... Theyd have a hard time hangin thorugh the waterchanges though so its really unlikely that hed be a minnow. Its just, hes smaller then miss piggy and another fry but hes got finnage, and they have no sign of it. Ah i wish i knew... Posting pics of him and the others in a bit, uploading now.


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## Punki

Lonely Squito swims along the surface, every now and then the smallest white baby comes and swims with him.








Smallest little fry, look how huge the eyes look on her xD








Miss piggy stole a microworm from Sharky while he wasnt paying attention =x








Isnt sharky ADORABLE in his own little way








Snackers








Staring contests








Colors!








Last but not least, the one on the top of my mind and the top of the tank lately is Squito


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## Sakura8

I love the staring contest, great pic. Sharky's cute, he has some lovely iridescence. It's so hard to say, Squito LOOKS like a betta but at that age, he also could look like a lotta things. :/ Why oh why do bettas, even baby bettas, like messing with our minds so much?


----------



## Jirothebetta

Didn't you know? Its a betta's job to keep us on our toes...like 24/7 XD


----------



## Punki

Squito is playing under the marimo moss ball on the ground. Now ill feed them microworms and see if he floats up afterwards. If so then i can safely say that food puts pressure on his sb. I think ive read some adult bettas that have this issue.


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## Sakura8

Ah, good plan. If that's the case, I think he'll need to be in epsom salt for the rest of his life.


----------



## Punki

Soon as i turned on the light he swam from under the moss ball and his butt pulled him up. I guess he holds himself down with the moss ball to sleep at night. Im just so scared to epsom salt him, like.. Do i cup him then add epsom salt water slowely, or do i cup him in as little water as possible and pour him in an epsom salt cup or... do i take their tankwater, put epsom salt in it in a cup and then move him. I was really hoping not to have to remove him.


----------



## Punki

So today i would cup squito and feed the others bbs, feeding him small mosquito larvae and Daphna, now tonight, with a full black belly he can swim comfortably down to the middle and rest at the middle, only at the bottom he is slowely pulled back up. I dont think his body handles bbs well, though he never stuffed himself like the others. So from now on ill try and cup him for individual feeds. Hopefully i can cup him, he does go to the surface to breath so ill wait for that moment lol.


----------



## Jirothebetta

Awww, I'm glad to hear he's making progress! Middle of the tank has to be better than being at the top all by himself! I'm rootin for ya 'Squito!


----------



## Punki

Its a mix of him prefering the top, and him not having a choice at times, i think hes a bit used to the top now, even when he can swim down he tends to go back up there. At least his sbd keeps him near air and not at the bottom.
Hes the one who shows the most potential to end up GREEN. es a blue/green shimmer, more green then blue, compared to the others.








and miss piggy will be second to get her top and bottom fins. Squito was first. 








if you look REALLY close you can see some webbing in the tail, electras ct genes coming through


----------



## Sakura8

With coloring like that, Squito HAS to be a betta. Minnows from canals wouldn't be nearly so pretty. And I guess all of Miss Piggy's eating paid off since she's getting her fins so fast.


----------



## Punki

lol yep, i got a nice clear view of him through the zoomed camera today, hes got the 8(( face, hes a betta xD


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## Sakura8

I hope he can overcome those SBD issues, he's going to be handsome.


----------



## Punki

And yep look at that fat gut full of at least 12 bbs ) all the others chase food and snack on bbs but shes too lazy, she just vacuums
I hope so too, if hes fine otherwise i may just have to keep him, i really wanted to pick the prettiest male and prettiest female and give the rest away but i keep getting attached xD


----------



## Punki

Well i have been hesitant to say anything, in hopes that im wrong but i THINK Oldman ate his two little ones. Usually he searches for them, finds them, then bubblenests, and repeats this all day, adding to his bubblenest, yesterday couldnt find them and hed make his rounds but he couldnt find them either so he never built his usual bubblenest. Yesterday evening i decided id siphon the bottom REALLY well, and carefully, bt still n darting fry as usual. I wiggled the fake plant around a bit and still no darting babies. Many times hed chase them, then realize they were his babies and not some food and then stop and swim off. If he ate them im assuming he accidentally caught one and didnt look before opening his mouth. He just keeps searching for them, sweeping the floor with his fins, blowing tiny specks of floor garbage around hoping to see one dart. I dont think he realizes they are gone yet. So, im down to 7. I never found any bodies in the temp fry tank but maybe a snail ate the dead bodies. I can only find 6-7 at any given time. Yesterday i was furious.... See we get our water from a place up the road here, we fill gallon jugs up with drinking water/fish water. I dont drive because of anxiety issues so id usually ride up with my dad. This week has been rough so i was very busy and dad got the water alone. I sit down yesterday with him and tell him im gonig to put the empty jugs in the back of his truck and he says that his neighbors mom has great city water and hes probably oging to go grab some of it instead of the place we usually go. I tell him id not want to use a different source water on these fry, especially a switch from really good well water to city water, even primed he PH could be way different or..just anything really you know? and he replies with "Dont worry about it, you used it yesterday you just didnt know it" then he laughed......... Well my numbers dropped overnight after the water change, i hoped they were hiding but a couple smaller ones arent being found still and i dont know/trust the source to know if its a drastic difference. Either way HOW RUDE to change the source water and not tell me because "water is water, itll be fine."
I really wish i hadnt purposely limited my spawn size now that dragonfly nymph made its appearance last week and then this. 7 is a manageable number but i didnt study and try so so hard and devote so much time to end up with just 7. Theres reasons that arent in my control as to how they died, but still, i was hoping to do everything right and have a nice spawn size in the end.I guess i couldn't escape the "first time spawn is usually very small" curse. So many little ones who never got their chance, and whos colors never got to shine. Im not feeling too optimistic today =/


----------



## Sakura8

I don't know what to say, Punki. *biiiig hug* Poor Old Man, searching for his fry. And I'm so sorry your dad switched water on you.  If it was just Old Man and Electra, they probably would have weathered any chemical shock but the fry are so delicate, he really should have warned you ahead of time. 

Please don't be discouraged. You've really done a great job and I mean that. There will always be unavoidable surprises like those darn nymphs but you've really done well despite that. You've nurtured your fry so much, fed them so well and you've gotten to know their little personalities already. I really admire your dedication to caring for them. A lot of us, myself included, are afraid to even try breeding because it sounds so overwhelming but you've tackled it head on. Yes, this spawn will be small, but that means it will be manageable and you can devote more time to each individual fry. If you'd had a spawn of 40+, you might not have been able to care for Squito like you have. And if you do decide to breed again, and I hope you will, you will have more experience and you will know what to expect. 

Hang in there Punki, Old Man, and Electra. All of my bettas and me are definitely thinking of you.


----------



## Punki

Sakura8 said:


> I don't know what to say, Punki.


After that line you knew exactly what to say 
Your right, 40 would have been overwhelming, before the nymphs came into play i didnt know any of these babies they were just "the babies" One died and was forgotten and never even got attention since there were so many more. Now they all look a bit different and i can keep track of who's who and each ones behavior, 40+ fry = some maybe missed problems, 7 fry= all being cared for as individuals. Good way to put it. Thanks 
So, i turn on my tank light and low and behold, look whos eating eggs for breakfast.








At the bottom  He still prefers the top when the lights on since hes used to it. I think hes just programed to stay at the top. In the mosquito larvae bucket he lived in he had to stay at the surface hidden in duckweed to stay safe. Though he DID have a swimbladder issue entering the fry tank, it seems to be resolved. I was happily watching this then i realized. Miss piggy is a meany! all of them are smaller then her, shes getting MASSIVE and when any come withing 3 inches of where shes grazing/vacuuming she nips at them D; 








So massive nad scary, look at mini's face D;


----------



## Sakura8

I'm glad I could cheer you up, Punki. I hate to see you discouraged because you've done so well with them. And you take such great pics of these little guys. 

Some bettas do like the surface more than others, maybe Squito will be one of those. I think you are right, he must have had to learn the behavior in the bucket. But Miss Piggy is making me laugh, she's so funny! So young and already she's such a greedy little thing. Poor Mini looks so alarmed. "What's coming toward me, it's huge!"


----------



## Punki

lol I call "her" "miss" but i bet its a male, the light colors just make me for some reason say "she." Her behavior is that of oldman, grumpy, a pig, and greedy xD Poor mini, got nipped then tried again and got nipped, but third time was a charm, he gave up and ate on the other side. Look at how fat her belly is, she acts like shes starving but shes eating for 2-3 xD Shes very amusing and easy to spot.
Thanks  Ive tried really hard for sure, i just hate that so many had to leave so soon.


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## Sakura8

Yeah, you did lose a lot to those dumb nymphs. But what if they had lived but been unhealthy or deformed? Then you would have had the difficult task of culling them and you would have been even sadder. 

Lol, I bet Miss Piggy's easy to spot, just look for the fat one. :-D


----------



## Punki

lol she is, the fat white thing with an orange ball plastered to the floor, uncaring/unfrightened about anyone walking up to the tank XD Shes like "dont eat that its mine!" to EVERYTHING. Any moment she may explode and the whole tank will shatter to pieces from the force of all the food she eats. Shes silly, i wonder if ill end up keeping her lol
Id keep them all, except heaters... If it wasnt for that i could keep them all. Wintertime is cold in my house. I got plenty of nice tanks from craigslist stalking but when each heater is 15$+ it adds up fast.


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## Punki

Come on now Miss piggy, really? Youve got 20+ bbs in your stomach and your eyeballing that huge mosquito larvae!?!?

















Oh... Gross Miss piggy, your stomach looks all deformed now... Your going to explode if you dont start sharing D;








Sharky is gonig to be pretty, not only do i see his bluish green, hes also getting yellow around his tail. Maybe Electras parents were stunning. But i didnt expect to see a yellow color, then i realized i dont have 7, i have 8, but one is TINY, i got some pics of it...








This ones got yellow all over 
and another pic of the tiny little one








This is getting quite interesting, yellow thrown into the mix really surprised me, i hope it continues.
Also oes anyone know if at 3 weeks the fry start to pick on each other, besides Miss piggy picking on EVERYONE ive noticed alot of the medium sized ones picking on each other and the smaller ones, is this the beginning of a fry pecking order? Does that exist? Also, can fry explode? Do they realize they are full? Miss piggy cleans the floor, i dont feed much but enough for everyone but she tends to gobble it all up and chase the others away, making herself VERY large. Her stomach is all gross =x


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## Kytkattin

I have been following this for a while (not since the beginning, but I have read everything), and I have to commend you on doing such a great job! I love all the pictures and always look forward to you posting more. Keep up the great work!


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## Punki

Thanks  Glad to know others enjoy the pictures, im hoping to document them all the way up taking a pic daily. Its fun to look back on.


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## Myates

This is fun to read  Since I don't have the space to breed, I can enjoy reading your adventure instead lol. Best wishes to you and your family, human and finned, and I'm rooting on Squito growing up to be healthy and stunning!


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## Punki

Thanks  Squito really had a feast today with mosquito larvae, since he likes the top of the tank so they work perfectly for him, unless miss piggy butts in XD Ive noticed Squito got his top/bottom fins first, then miss piggy, now sharky has his coming in.
The tiny fry worries me though, miss piggy could technically EAT him hes so small compared to her now. She creeps up on him but he always moves away just in time. Hopefully he has a growth spurt soon, id like to see how this light yellow color turns out


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## BetterBetta

Oh Miss Piggy, that belly is sure big Any signs of Oldman's fry yet? By the way I'm so impressed how you've handled this all, you deserve a round of applause:-D (claps)


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## Punki

I havent seen oldmans little ones, but hes took notice of all the other fry RIGHT next to his tank, hes started building another nest. If he did eat them, i dont think he meant to. He was enojying being a daddy, the instinct to eat what wiggles was hard to cope with the whole time but hed usually realize just before chomping, i would like to find them but my hopes pretty low. Thanks, believe me its had some sad moments, but its quite a ride. Im glad i did it and it is really fun to watch them grow and interact


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## BetterBetta

At least we saw something phenomenal; Oldman caring for his little fry. Its like forum history I would start breeding, but I don't have the time; school and dance is starting up soon. I think its awesome you got to experience this, from those darn nymphs to Miss Piggy, this seems like quite a memorable spawn


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## Punki

Yeah i never expected so many things to go on, when im old i will still remember something this cool im sure. Glad i had the time to do it at least once


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## Sakura8

Miss Piggy is something else. :roll: I can see why you'd be afraid she'd explode, haha. I know most people separate fry according to age, but you might want to start separating by size soon. I'm glad you found another fry, he's so tiny. I hope Miss Piggy leaves him alone. 

Squito is going to be handsome. They're all going to be so fun to look at. And if the majority of them are girls, Punki, you can keep them all since the girls can go in a sorority.


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## Punki

:yourock:Happy Three Weeks Little Ones~:yourock:
8 of you are still safe, healthy, and thriving. Squito has hit a growth spirt and tries to nip miss piggy when she comes up for air, sharky has hit an even bigger growth spurt and is almost miss piggys size and he too is getting payback on miss piggy the bully. Those three all have their top/bottom fins and go crazy for any food live or frozen, but only miss piggy doesnt know her limit. If the thing i read about the males being larger the first month is true then i have 2-3 females and 5-6 males. It seems like three weeks just FLEW by but at the same time im anxious to see how they will turn out. Oldman is retired, i am 99% sure his babies are gone and hes mourning hes been lethargic, sleeping alot, and not begging constantly for food, but still eating and looking fine. Hes had quite the journey, being a fry, then being a walmart betta in a cup, fighting his way into my arms and then dealing with a 1g bowl for a month until i would allow myself to become attached to him. (my first betta was a walmart betta that died 24 hours after bringing it home so i was hesitant) then he got upgraded to a 2.5g then a 3g, then live plants came along and suddenly he had a 10g with a pretty girl next door, and finally he was able to embrace her, make babies and raise them as best he could. Im sure he didnt mean to eat his babies, as he still searches for them, but hopefully he can pull himself out of his slump of sadness. Electra is looking/feeling great, back to her spunky self, spoiled rotten with live foods and toys. Ive looked really closely at the babies tails, electa has a two pronged CT webbing, im not sure of the actual name for it, but the babies also have this, some to deeper depths of web then others. Next week they will hit 1 month, thats amazing, from a dot to a cute little fish so fast. xD


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## Punki

Does anyone know if this behavior is normal? Now my smaller ones are doing it. A pecking order? Are they trying to eat each other? Maybe your right Sakura, i may need to remove the two runts if what they are doing is "fighting"
Heres the short video...
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=P1150921.mp4


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## diablo13

I just read up from when I stopped posting, I just want to say you've done a great job raising these fry and you take great pictures  and if they are fighting, I would seperate them


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## Punki

Well they are all nipping at each other during feed time, selfish little ones they are. No damage has been done to any of them yet, just wasnt sure if this was them creating a pecking order like female sororities do or not. 3 weeks is so young to be separating. 
Thanks  I love the pics, i can get a better view of the tiny details of them with it now, instead of in the beginning, i was using pictures just to SEE them xD


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## diablo13

Lol, my platy just gave birth, and I consider myself lucky because I could see them and my net was even small enough to pick them up


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## Punki

Ekk, i contacted OldFishLady and she said now is the time they do create a pecking order and also, the strong eat the weak, so my miss piggy could techinally snack on one of the two tiny ones or at least hurt them enough to kill them. I dont want to limit these guys space too much yet, so im ognig to go grab a 2g for these two and hopefully they catch up in growth and can be returned to the rest later.


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## Punki

Actually i think i will re-set up the 10g this evening and transfer all the babies back into it, and hook the smallest two in a tupperware container with holes in it on the side. Im running low on heaters XD


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## diablo13

Lol, i know the feeling


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## Punki

lol xD i didnt expect fry to try and eat each other the first month, i figured theyd all be together, then at about 1 1/2-2 months id move them to a growout tank and THEN seperate as needed into mason jars. I must have missed this info xD OFL said shes seen her fry with a smaller frys tail sticking out of its mouth as it swims around. As i type that im making a o_o face XD Ahh, never a boring day with fry~


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## Punki

I was about to edit my post but i was too slow, anyways-
Edit: OFL said if i separate their water then it would be better. Miss piggy is probobly secreting alot of growth stunting hormone to keep them small so she can eventually eat them... Yeah the name suits her all too well D;


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## diablo13

Woah, that's creepy 0_0


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## Sakura8

Whoa, Miss Piggy, she's kinda crazy. I think the two will go well in the tupperware until they grow up a little. 

Happy three week birthday, little ones!!

Cheer up, Old Man, you should be proud of yourself, not sad. Sad isn't good, we need our grumpy Old Man back!


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## Punki

I did end up removing 1, couldnt spot the other, but when i counted i had 8 so maybe hes just grown a bit. The tiny runt is now floating and getting his own feeds/waterchanges, im hoping by week 4 he will be able to handle the fat miss piggy. Everyday she grows. But Sharky is fighting her for top spot, hes growing REALLY fast also and hes not afraid of her, they both creep on each other and spazz out running away. Their pecking order is mostely size based i guess. But that nasty growth hormone is ugh, to think they release it to stunt their siblings and eventually can EAT them. AHH, i thought the first month would be rainbows and babyfries!


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## Sakura8

Yeah, these are the cold hard reasons why I hate watching the Nature program on PBS. But it's mostly rainbows and babyfries.  Hopefully Sharky and Miss Piggy will just focus on each other and leave their littler siblings alone.


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## Punki

lol thats what im hoping. The others see her coming and sprint for the nearest plant but sharky will sometimes approach her as she does him. Sharky is growing the fastest though miss piggys is largest, hes almost there and closer everyday. Hes very dark and thick, he comes off as intimidating and strong all around, where miss piggy just looks like a selfish pig who only gets mad at ppl who eat food she plans to eat at some point xD


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## Sakura8

Haha, but it sounds like Miss Piggy plans to eat ALL food at some point, the silly thing. It would be too ironic and funny if Miss Piggy turned out to be a male and Sharky the big intimidating one turned out to be a female. :-D


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## Jirothebetta

Thats exactly what I was thinking! XD It would be way too funny :-D


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## Punki

Sharky shimmers green, i think its the blue they all got mixed with his baby red color but i love it. Miss piggys face is also looking pretty adorable lately, like a porceline babyface . Sharkys got oldmans grump face. I love these fish xD 
I got pictures but im too tired to upload tonight, ill post them tomorrow  All are well. I even saw miss piggy back off of sharky so i think hes moving up the ladder. Squito is doing great, stays down with the rest 3/4 of the day now, no further issues.


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## Jirothebetta

Awww, I'm glad to here everythings settling down and going right in fry world, I can't wait to see what these cute little characters turn out look like XD'


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## Punki

They have little spikes like electra, im hoping to keep a combtail with alot of ct male and i want a little vt girl, hopefully i get a few girls


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## Punki

Okay picture time xD








Miss piggy flirting with the camera








Today they suddenly are getting little stripe looking things right past their stomachs inside, more space? spine? i dunno xD







The gorgeous Sharky








A little one about to grab lunch








Smile~








They love this meal of the day, i go outside and siphon all the white worms in the rotting leaves of my mosquito buckets, along with tiny mosquito's.








"I can sense her presence O_O"








"I dont like you but lets stick together and hide in the corner, wide load is coming through, im so scared!"


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## diablo13

Lol, nice pictures punki


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## Punki

Thanks  Quite a few of them have gotten so used to me and my camera they swim right up and sit still and pose it seems xD Watching them eat is fun


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## vette91

they all look great punki! I want to start conditioning my pair(or pairs) soon. I'm having some trouble getting any live food for them though


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## Punki

Thank you  Mosquitos arent coming like they should? D; If all else fails go grab frozen from a local store, though i read life makes a faster conditioning period, itll still work great. Im just cursed/blessed to live near a canal so i get lots of nasty bugs around to crawl into my buckets XD What types are you gonig to breed?


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## vette91

I had some infusoria going, but while I was gone on vacation(it was outside) it got destroyed by a hail storm so I have to get that going(before the spawn). I had a bucket outside for mosquito larvae, but got nothing.  I do have frozen bloodworms and frozen brineshrimp, but I'd prefer to do live. I guess it wouldn't hurt to start feeding them these now though. 

Well its up in the air between two males and three females. I have a King hmpk but he's way bigger than my females so I'd prefer not to get them hurt. I also have a HM light blue to white butterfly male. For females I have a pure gold CT, a cambodian thats fins change colors from purple to blue to green and I have a handful of NIB's spawn to choose from. The one I would pick has a real dark red fin and a copper body. But, this is your thread! don't let me steal it


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## Punki

Ah its interesting  Ill look forward to seeing your pair. I took ofl advice on the conditioning and just mass fed, 3x a day and by day 5 my female was so eggy it was unreal lol, Glad those stupid things have some use to me  My problem is my area is really friendly and sometimes ill wake up and my neighbor has gotten bored and mowed my lawn, that type of thing. Ive had so many buckets tipped that they just thought was useless gathered rain XD Luckily i keep a couple smaller backups but still, kindof annoying. When i noticed i was running low on an infusoria i made a new one and it shocked me because it matured quite fast. Id used strawberry top leaves (lol first thing i saw ) and tank water and i had some duckweed lying around so i let that float on top of the water bottle, i think the duckweed was an infusoria boost, 4 days later i had some infusoria but i didnt touch it till 7 days later and i had a ton, then i just made a few more nasty waters and threw them in to clean up xD
Also i keep ofrgetting to mention, during these babies establishing a pecking order ive watched countless times, they creep up on each other staring and then...they poop... LOL I giggle everytime >.< I guess its like how adults will sometimes poop when they flare at their reflection/another fish but seeing babies do it is cute xD


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## Punki

Well im a bit disappointed, there has been a confirmed case of dingue fever in my area so wednesday they will be spraying the area to kill mosquito's. I was given a list of precautionary things to do which include dumping all of my buckets outside, the ones QTing my live plants, the lilies i keep in water outside, the nematode bucket i keep outside ect. All the oak leaves laying around wont be safe after wednesday so i plan to gather tons and ziplock them but otherwise all my wild live foods will be lostfor im not sure how long until its safe again. We were told to wear long sleeved shirts and pants, repellant, and small children in strollers to have a net. Since my backyard is a canal we have TONS of mosquito's so basically they are telling me we cant go outside and play because 105+ temps with high humidity in long sleeves just wont work and its unsafe to take a chance of my 3 year old getting bitten. It just HAD to be carried by mosquito's =/


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## indjo

If they spray indoors too, cover everything real good. Here they say the spray only kills DF mosq L but my fry died too. 

If your canal has running water, it should be safe after a day or two..... if they didn't spray upstream on a later time. But I'm not sure about still water.

As for kids playing outside, can't you use repellents? They work where I'm at.... just re-spray every few hours or so (if your kids are out side for a looong time).


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## Punki

Its pretty still waters, almost swampy and even with repellant we get bitten. Not many safe STRONG repellants safe for kids 30 pounds and under. They arent so bad from around 11am-4pm but its miserably hot then. Thanks alot for mentioning about the fry, i do keep clearwrap over their tank always but i think ill put it on all their tanks to be safe. Apparently its a county wide spray starting wednesday. I really need to look into it thuroughly, i just got the papers about it today and people are freaking out, most of us are on wellwater so i wonder how THATS gonna work as well, will it get into our well water....


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## diablo13

God, don't you just hate it when the goverment starts messing with things? Even in your case, when they're doing something good, it leads to more problems. Oh well.


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## Sakura8

I love those pics, Punki, and I love the captions.  But I'm sorry about the mosquito spraying. I kinda had the same thing. I live a mile or so away from our local mosquito control center and I think that affected my ability to get mosquito larva. I had the bucket out for a week and nothing ever showed up. But dengue fever is nasty or so I've heard. Like wish-you-were-dead nasty.  I hope the spray doesn't affect your well water. I'm not wellwater but we've had them do county-wide sprayings here before to combat West Nile virus. They tell us to keep kids and pets indoors, windows and doors shut and to not run the AC or the vent or something like that.


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## Punki

Wow, i didnt hear about no ac, thatd be so hot D;


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## Sakura8

I'm not sure if it was no AC, exactly. I think there's something else that just circulates outside air through vents and that's what they didn't want people using. But yeah, I imagine it would get really hot without AC.


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## indjo

DF is really nasty - if it's in the neighborhood, don't underestimate any kind of fever which sometimes isn't too high. But the difference is that the victim will feel very weak and often shiver (?). It takes about 2 weeks after bitten to affect us and can be spotted (?) after 3 days; 1. tie the arm, just above the elbow to stop the blood flowing. Red specks/dots will show on the arm. 2. through blood test, a more reliable result.

On the 4 - 5th day the fever will drop a bit BUT this is the critical moment. After the 6th day the fever will rise again. If treated, this is the curing phase.

Make sure your kids .... your family, drink a lot of high vitamin juices. The best "repellent" is the body. A healthy body can often avoid infection.

I'm posting this as a precaution. Hope you never have to face it.

As far as I know the pesticide floats like oil. After a few hours, you can throw away the top layer and the water should be safe..... if you're area is using the same kind of pesticide (don't know the kind, sorry). It's more to kill mosq, not the larva. It kills larva mainly because of the oily layer, avoiding them to breath.

Oh, AVOID inhaling the "smoke" - it can cause lung/breathing issues, specially to those with asthma.
Yes no AC, specially when people are in there. We usually use fans to quickly remove left over "smoke" from inside the house after 30 minutes or so.

Best wishes to you and your family.


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## BlueEyes

It sucks they have to spray, but I can understand why. Dingue fever is some pretty intense stuff. 

I hope you, your human fry, and your fishy fry, along with everyone else make it through okay.


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## Punki

Thanks for all the info, a quick google didnt give all of these details. Ive emptied my buckets, clearwrapped my tanks, ziplocked oakleaves from outside and i think ill go into town while this is done because i think no ac would be heat stroke weather. Hopefully this all calms down soon. I hate though that our canal has just started getting fish in it again (droughts for a few years dried it up) and now they may die. We found out yesterday and today its happening. Meanwhile ill keep an eye on myself because im outside alot directly dealing with the mosquitos when i gather larvae and such so ive got tons of bites. Never expected something like this though, weve never had to be sprayed before.


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## Sakura8

Definitely stay safe, Punki. Watch for the symptoms of illness too. *hugs*


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## Punki

Thanks Sakura i will, and ill try not to be paranoid ) I wonder when itll be okay to start a new batch of larvae once this is over. I did sneak in a small bowl id filled with oak leaves and water months ago, that thing is crawling with nematodes, i took a net and dumped everything into the net, and then ran water over it to get the nematodes to drop though then put the rotting leaves back with them and threw the mosquito larvae outside. So at least i am getting to keep something  Sorta gross though. Seriously, every dya since ive had these fry has been a rollercoaster!


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## Sakura8

No kidding, it has been an adventure. I would wait maybe a day or two to let any residual mist settle or absorb before starting a new bucket. You can tell when someone breeds bettas when they're happy about worms and mosquito larvae. ;-)


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## Punki

lol true ) Preparing os much this morning ive just fed the fry and not really looked at them, but now that i have im surprised, sharky and miss piggy look so large! Both are this long now ------------- head to tail! The qt one is growing a bit better, hes about as small as the smallest one still in the tank so i may put him back tomorrow. Seemed a safe space and individual feeding / extra water changes really helps fast.


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## Sakura8

Wow, Miss Piggy and Sharky are so much bigger than I imagined! They grow so fast, it never ceases to amaze me. I'm glad the little QT boy/girl is growing. Hopefully now he can stand up to Miss Piggy and Sharky.


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## Punki

I hope so XD Yeah their eyes are about how big they were when they hatched so its quite a change in 3 weeks.


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## Sakura8

Hard to believe it's only been 3 weeks, too. Wow. You've done a great job with them, Punki.


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## vette91

So whats the final count so far punki?
And the thing about them spraying for mosquito's sucks.


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## Punki

Holding steady at 8, 7 healthy and one is a bit too small so hes getting a separate container to catch up. Five are white with blue shimmer except the smallest one, its yellow shimmered, and the other two are brown with blue/green/yellow shimmer.


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## Punki

Okay were all okay, safe and sound, no deaths or anything  Sharky has caught up with Miss piggy, so him and a couple of thoers try and bully her, but hes the only one larger then her so i guess shes rank 2 now  Heres a few pictures from today.








Miss piggy checking the temps.








Miss piggy and one of the smaller triplets eating








Dont worry Sharky, your waters fine.








and Mr squito is still doing well. Hes almost identicle to sharky except hes smaller and has a tad less shimmer, his is more blue and sharkys is more green/blue 
I wanted to check on Electra and oldman today, ive let them rest since this whole ordeal and they both seemed pretty mellow so i put them in view of each other and the flaring and dancing began, she barred up instantly, but i noticed that he flares and her beard comes down only on one side, the other cheek doesnt have a beard at all, i swear it used to. I wonder if it was injured during breeding. Shes otherwise fine, and oldman finally colored up and showed off, I think ill have to make a point to flare him 15 minutes a day, he seems so sad since he lost his little ones.


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## Sakura8

Punki, you always take awesome pics. I have 9 platy fry that are 4 days old and all I get are specks when I try to take pics of them.

Miss Piggy really is a big girl/guy.  

Glad to hear you're all doing okay. Poor Old Man, I hope he perks up. It's okay, Old Man, we all know you didn't mean to eat your fry. Cheer up!


----------



## Punki

My camera isnt the best but i put it on macro setting then sit in the floor, point at a fry, hold the button down halfway till it focuses on the fry then snap. If theres bubbles or anything bigger in the background itll focus on that instead so its tricky XD Thanks though  26 days ago they were dots with a line on the end, and now they look like little bettas  I think i may end up keeping sharky, everytime i take pics he swims up to the glass and opens and shuts his mouth on it, like hes trying to greet me, the others get scared sometimes and move back a bit, but he doesnt flinch no matter what. I love his personality. I plan to keep one male and one female, plus oldman and electra


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## Sakura8

>.< I do the same thing with my camera and still get blurs or little specks. If I'd known I was going to get into fish, I so would have bought a camera with better close-up. 

Aww, Sharky sounds so funny. It's amazing to think you can see his mouth opening and closing now. Before, they were eyeballs! Just eyeballs and a tail. I bet you're so tempted to keep them all. ;-)


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## Punki

lol I totally would if i had more heaters ) I was thinking about a 3 girl sorority if i end up with 3 girls, i guess it all depends, i know girls wont be first on anyones list that i know but honestly, girls have much more spunk! If they look like Electra it may not be so hard though XD


----------



## Sakura8

Maybe you'll luck out, get almost all girls and no one will want them so you can keep them in a nice big sorority.  But true, true, if they turn out as pretty as their mother, it shouldn't be too hard to find homes. And I agree, the girls have spunk. Lots of it.


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## Punki

I wish oldman would pep up, he never was hyper or spunky but hed swim furiously for food and just had attitude. I can still see it, but its 50% less, it always seems like hes tired. His tail fins are a bit ragged looking also, from what im assuming is from when he went into his filter a few months ago, and then hard water made the tips curl instead of grow back smoothly. I had him on mosquito larvae 2x a day before i had to throw them out yesterday and in a 3g with 100% water changes every other day. His tank stays spotless and hes always cupped not netted, so i dont think my care is causing it, but when he saw Electra today he brightened up, flared, danced, blew some bubbles, and waved his body trying to lure her to him through the glass. Maybe he misses the 10g divided with her. Ill have to re-set that up along with transferring the fry into theirs this week. It breaks my heart t see him losing his aggressive personality so watching him interact with her was really nice. He didnt have any injuries from the spawning though, Electra got a bit beat on but shes fine, healthy and its like it never happened. Hopefully after setting them back up he perks up again. Right now his 3g is right next to the frys 3g and he watches them alot, but rarely does anything, just watches.


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## Sakura8

I think Old Man feels bad about his fry. He reminds me of a mother dog or cat who lost her little ones. Hopefully he will perk up again when he's back in the divided tank with Electra. But no, it's definitely not your care. You take awesome care of your bettas. I think he's just sad right now and needs something to take his mind off his fry.


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## Punki

While he had his babies hed only get 60-90% changed every other day but yeah, he changed attitude breeding of course, then acted weird afterwardss for a whole week, then i realized that he had babies with him, so i understood, but now they are gone so i guess your right, he may just miss them. He bubblenested everyday they were in there, when i woke up and there was no nest i kinda knew they wouldnt be found, but i didnt expect him to sulk =[ Maybe seeing his other little ones is stressing him, or depressing him. D;


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## Sakura8

I never expected a fish to be so . . . human in his emotions. Even knowing how personable and how much character bettas have, Old Man has continually surprised me with the emotions and behaviors he's shown during the last three weeks.


----------



## Punki

One of my fry has one solid black eye and one cobber brown eye with a black pupil, dropping food it seems to see out of both fine but i wonder if its okay still. The black one looks larger slightly but i think its because it doesnt have the copper circle. Its not one of the small fry, i hope it wasnt injured somehow, if its natural then what a strange thing, id never heard of it. I tried to video the little one in question. Its uploading slow so ill post it afterwards. I hope its nothing like..popeye or something because they get waterchanges 50% daily, plus 2 vacs a day so id be confused.


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## Punki

Heres the fry with the eyes..
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=P1160132.mp4
and a quick vid of sharky watching me watch him
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=P1160133.mp4


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## Sakura8

Hmm. That eye definitely is bigger than the other but it doesn't look "popped out," just bigger. It could be it's an illusion, like you said. It seems he can see all right so I guess all you can do is watch him. And Sharky is so cute. It's amazing the difference between Sharky and the little fry with the eyes. Sharky looks like an actual betta now but the little guy still looks like a fry. It's so interesting how some of them have coloring now. They're such cute little guys/gals.


----------



## Punki

Yeah, some size in at about 2 weeks size while miss piggy/sharky/squito are big babies. Im glad it was visible to you also, worried the cam wouldnt catch it as well as my eyes. Hopefully its not something to bad.


----------



## Sakura8

I couldn't see the difference in eye color itself but I could see the difference in size. But like I said, the eye doesn't look like it's bulging so I don't think it's popeye. And like you, I really don't see how he could get popeye with such great care. Erm, I suppose it's possible one eye just developed faster than the other? Although that would be weird.


----------



## Punki

The only thing i could think of was that maybe while they determined pecking order one had decided to peck at the eye, that or two different colored eyes, or like you said, possible deformity. But yeah no swelling, itd be a bit odd to end up with a fish that always looked at you with  face but if it doesnt hurt it, then im fine with it


----------



## Sakura8

Haha,  Perpetually startled. You coul call him Bugeye. Poor thing. It could be one of them nipped at the eye. But you said he sees okay? That's a good sign anyway. Maybe he'll turn out to be the prettiest of them all, just with funny eyes.


----------



## Punki

Id name him Fabio and hed always strut and look at his sibling like this
" What you lookin at, thats right me! *wiggle*" and his eyews would make them feel like he was looking at them funny and ruin their self image XDDDD
Im not 100% that he sees okay but i saw him tilt his eye towards the flor where a brine shrimp was and then scoot back and grab it, he might be having alittle trouble since he had to lean down and go back, but i do think he can see at least some. Hopefully continued care will heal it up if its an injury.


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: I love your description! Too funny. 

The nice high protein diet you're feeding should definitely help. As long as he can see mostly, I think he'll be just fine.


----------



## Punki

Im not 100% that he sees perfectly but i saw him tilt his eye towards the floor where a brine shrimp was and then scoot back and grab it, he might be having alittle trouble since he had to lean down and go back, but i do think he can see at least some. Hopefully continued care will heal it up if its an injury. 
I keep thinking sharky is going to be the prettiest, but the white ones like miss piggy, so light colored but with a very light blue shimmer, they have me wondering. Oldmans genes is in sharky and squito i believe, since theyve been dark bodied since day 3, but electras colors will probably go to the white ones. Thats my guess at least. I really wish i could fastforward and just SEE how they will look ) I cant capture it in pictures yet but their fins, some look like VT with just tiny spikes, while others look like they have alot of 2 pronged spiky edges like Electra. Miss piggys gonna look VT i believe, she doesnt have much spike, squito does though  
I noticed nubs of ventrals on miss piggy and sharky today also


----------



## Sakura8

I wish you could fast forward too, I can't wait to see their colors. I hope you end up with a male VT with Electra's colors, I bet he'd be stunning. This is the fun/frustrating part of breeding, isn't it? The waiting.


----------



## Punki

lol Yeah, its fun in a similar way to your parents wrapping presents and putting them under the christmas tree a month before christmas, telling you its a bunch of things youll love and its so hard to wait, except this is more work yet more interesting because you cant stare at your presents for hours daily, well you could, but thatd be boring XD 
That would be a stunning VT, miss piggy might end up with that, her tail is getting quite long but VT shaped and no real spike to it, and her current colors are very light/bright blue like electra. Oh my if she ends up looking like that and i keep her..well HIM ill be ran out of house and home, she eats so much more then her portion still!


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Yeah, the Christmas present analogy is perfect. Ah, Miss Piggy, I can't believe how much she eats and I'm not even there to see it! It would be fun if she turned out to be that gorgeous VT male. You'd have to set up two or three buckets for mosquito larva to feed her/him. How are things now? Have they finished the spraying?


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## Punki

Yeah and i kinda snuck in some larvae beforehand in a 1g jug, then poured them into a net then into fresh water again today and im using that for the next few days for Electra and oldman while the babies still have my planaria/nematode mix bucket. I was thinking about making a net somehow to keep the mosquitos in, so they could make more bucket babies without letting other mosquito's in or out. Im still not sure when its safe to restart a new bucket though, i cleaned one today and we had a huge storm today that gave me 6 inches of rainwater, but i wont use it, pesticides may drain off the trees and into it or something D;


----------



## Sakura8

Ugh, yeah, wouldn't want to risk it. That really stinks about the spraying. Hopefully soon you can go back to using the buckets and the larvae. Have you ever tried homemade food like OFL uses?


----------



## Punki

I havent, but thats a good idea, i need to ask her how she does that. My fry will eat non-live foods fine so itd be great in case of emergency/variety.


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## Sakura8

I'm not sure of the exact proportions but I know she uses spinach, garlic, and shrimp, and maybe a few other ingredients and she purees it, then freezes it.


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## Jirothebetta

O.O they are getting SO big! I can't wait to see their adult colors and you're right, it is very much like christmas presents :3 You know, Tomiko has two different colored eyes. One's silver and the other is almost black with a bright blue point in it...I don't think its a deformity but more of a pigment, genetic thing...unless the other eye really is bigger than the other..that would be crazy  XD


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## Punki

Pigment! Thats the word my brain was failing to say, one has a copper pigment outlined while the other is just jet black. Oldman has the copper outlined eyes while Electra has the jet black dotty eyes, maybe itll be quite unique with two different colored eyes  Looking today its still like that but doing fine. How exciting  I wish i had a bigger home, and another 10g and a reverse osmosis filtration system so i could keep them all XD


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## Punki

Okay today i fed and counted 9..... 5 times i counted and theres 9, not 8... so many days i count and theres 8 and suddenly theres 9 instead  
The one with the two different color eyes can see out of both, because i watched it watch a sibling creep up on it and it moved away. Which is another thing, i keep putting it off but i GOT to put them back in the 10g, they are nipping often, no injuries, just pecking order nips, but they need more space. I took a few pics today, their growth is great for most, only 2 small ones, thats another reason they need more space. So tomorrow or the next day they will be back in their bigger home. They eat so much all day and they poop a ton everywhere also =x 
AND Happy 4 weeks little ones!


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## vette91

I can't wait to see some new pics! and on a side note, I can't believe this thread is 52 pages!


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## Jirothebetta

YaY, Happy 4 weeks Punki!


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## Sakura8

Yay! Happy 4 weeks birthday, little guys! And I wonder where that 9th one came from.


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## Punki

Its tiny like the small one i QT'd maybe its been hiding behind the mossball or something, youd think in 3g of water id be able to count them correctly XD
Thanks Jiro 
Vette, lol yeah i think i post too much, i just want to document every detail, ill probobly print all these pages out for a memory book to pile in a box with my journals, so when im old i can have another thing to remember clearly about an experience XD
Heres a few pics from a bit ago 








Sharky, hes got such gentle eyes. I initially named him sharky because he looked so angry, but not so much now.








Miss Piggy always worried about water quality, maybe shes eating a ton to poop a ton and see if she can make it turn blue XD








And my two different colored eyes one. I took a few pics of both eyes earlier just to get a close look and they both look healthy, just ones got a copper pigment and the other is black. So hes gonig to be interesting


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## vette91

wow sharky looks amazing! I like "miss" piggy too! and the last one looks so weird! The eye looks curved from that view. Weird


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## Punki

Yeah in the straight on pics it really looks off, i think thats why i took one pic of each side of him, just to get a good look at both sides clearly... Here ill post them, i hope its nothing serious D;








The right black eye








The left copper lined eye


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## vette91

from the side view, it looks perfectly normal! My King has one blue eye and one black.


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## Punki

Thats so neat! Boo! All these guys are unique to me and special and "rare" to me in their ways, im gonig to end up keeping them all i bet =x


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## Sakura8

Sharky is turning out so beautiful! And Miss Piggy has such pretty iridescence. Haha, she WOULD be contrary enough to try and turn that thing blue, wouldn't she?

The little odd-eyed guy is interesting. Poor guy looks like he got one bummer of a black eye in a bar brawl. 

Punki, it took me almost 3 of the 5 days I've had my platy fry to get what I think is an accurate count. They move around so much!


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## Punki

lol Same with these fry, they dart, creep on each other DART AGAIN, the best time to count is after tapping the lid and feeding, they all gather, just today had an extra one. Maybe clever oldman spit his fry over to the fry tank ) Slam dunk!


----------



## GunsABlazin

im sure Old man could manage it


----------



## Luimeril

they're so cute!

that one with the two-colored eyes..... it looks so funny on such a little baby! xD


----------



## Panthera

I would quarantine the fry with the eye problem just to be on the safe side. It does look slightly bigger then the other, but it could also just be a deformity and not a sickness. I'm sure OFL will probably know what it is, but until someone answers it may be best to take him out. 

Good luck!


----------



## Punki

All is well, but my dad showed up today with another 20g but it has no hood, but he was thinking i could divide it 4 ways and keep oldman/electra/two little ones all in one tank over the winter. He also bought a heater but it was a whisper 30-60g that was messed up and overheated when i tested it so that got tossed. The only problem is my 10g has hood light and such, this 20g has no hood and a hood itself costs alot, i cant decide what to do with all this lol! 
Well Miss piggy, squito, sharky, and 2 others can eat medium sized mosquito larvae now, but they really fight it down. I had no idea they could till i accidentally put one in and when i went to siphon it i saw it hanging out of ones mouth


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## bettaloverforever16

You could put plastic cling wrap on the top with holes poked in it. It'll keep the humidty in, and keep them from jumping out.


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## Punki

Yeah id just really prefer a light, i dont have any lamps to use over it to see them properly. =x
I need to find a use for it though cause itd be such a waste to just throw out.


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## Sakura8

Don't throw it away, definitely not. Save it for a day when you can afford a hood. Do they have 20g hoods at Wal-Mart? I know I saw a 10g hood there the last time I went. Sigh, I wish my dad would surprise me with a 20g tank.  But alas, nowhere to put it.

They're getting so big now! They're eating big food!


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## vette91

Sakura8 said:


> Don't throw it away, definitely not. Save it for a day when you can afford a hood. Do they have 20g hoods at Wal-Mart? I know I saw a 10g hood there the last time I went. Sigh, I wish my dad would surprise me with a 20g tank.  But alas, nowhere to put it.
> 
> They're getting so big now! They're eating big food!


 +1 to my parents do that. I wish


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## Punki

lol My dads getting older and is hooked on yardsales so he likes to "get a deal" but him and my grandma also rent to alot of people, and people leave some of the nicest things behind sometimes saying they dont cars D; Today i cleaned the tank to storage and its not a 20g at all, its a 30g! My grandma grabbed the other tank that the guy said to just throw out, its less then a month old and has filter/hood and all. She wants some goldfish


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## Sakura8

30g! Woohoo! You'll have some fun with that one someday.


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## Punki

lol Huge thing it is XD I could split that up quite a few ways for my bettas, and keep a couple more babies >.>


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## Sakura8

Yeah, now you're on the right track.  Your dad totally had an awesome find there. Too bad he couldn't find a hood to go with it . . .


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## Punki

lol yeah, but im happy, my grandma has a 30g also and shes getting goldfish, at first she wanted one of my 3g to put 3 goldfish in and i was like no no no so she listened and waited till they found one. 
Two days ago i put my mosquito bucket out cause weve had heavy rain every evening for a few days. Today i got mosquito larvae, lol, ive put it out in the open about 100 feet from my house just to keep the mosquitos away and so it will only catch rainwater fresh and not from the trees. 
Bad news is that my cameras focus is jammed and i cant take pictures >.< Im googling info tonight to igure out what to do. I really want to take pics! Miss piggys got a light red color starting to go down her tail, 4 of them have cute little ventrals poking out and wiggling, and its just happening so fast!


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## Sakura8

That's great that your grandma waited to get the 30g, those poor goldfish wouldn't have lasted long in a 3g. And great that you've got mosquito larvae again. I bet the bettas are even happier about it than you are. ;-) But not so great about your camera focus.  Their little ventrals sound so cute! I hope you're able to get your camera fixed soon.


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## Punki

So today i woke up, checked ebay for cameras, saw a nikon cool pix for 30 dollars, just a nice point and shoot with alittle wear and tear. Then i went to my sisters to swim and was casually chatting about it and i was shocked when she pulled out one in the box still, exact color/model i was going to buy lol!One of her EX's got it for her but she only uses her cellphone for pics and she didnt want it, she said "Merry Early Christmas" lol Im so happy though


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## Sakura8

:-D That is awesome, Punki! Yay, now we get more pics of the fry! Thank her from everyone on the forum too, we love the pics.


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## Punki

I still have to learn how to properly use the camera but i snapped a few pics anyways because miss piggy suddenly has tail color today  and Squito has some dark fin tips showing 








See my smallest there on the left, hes growing but he just cant keep up.








Red showing also now and ventrals!  Squito and sharky behind her








I turned the light off so the colors dont show but you can see dquito and sharkys darkened tips. Ill try to get more pics tomorrow


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## Punki

OH and they turned a month old yesterday!


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## Sakura8

Happy month old birthday, you little guys! You're so adorable and I can't believe how much you've grown in a month! You look like little bettas now! It's amazing how much color they have. If I hadn't known any better I would have said Squito and Sharky were full-grown bettas because they have so much color.


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## Punki

I agree, miss piggy will now turn and ill notice a red tint to her fins here and there but squito and sharky just swim and 75% of the time are green/blue. Miss piggys colors look like oldmans, the blue and red mix on the fins. She may end up being a big ol piggy man


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## Sakura8

Do you think it's possible Miss Piggy could be a Cambodian because she still has a pale body?


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## Punki

I dont know how that would happen at all but i dunno their parents so i guess anything is possible lol. Im sortof thinking that electra might have been like most of them, white bodied, then she marbled out into a blue later on, her colors are all blotches of blue/white/pink. If i ended up with a Cambodian i think id fall over from shock but id keep it =x


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## Sakura8

It would be interesting, all right. Her tail shimmers and those little ventrals are so cute! And I can see those dark tips that Squito and Sharky have. What do you think they mean? Do you think they'll get even darker colored or maybe just their fins? :-D This is a fun adventure, never knowing what these little guys will look like or do next. Thanks for posting so much and letting me come along for the ride, Punki.


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## Punki

I think its electras double pronged CT tips starting to show on squito and sharky. 
One thing ive failed to mention is that miss piggy has me a TAD worried, when i drop food she is most excited for sure, dancing and going from top to bottom gobbling her big lips around, but ive noticed her back arches a bit more then the others, its almost as if shes spent soooo much time vacuuming the bottom that her back has permenantly arched into the position. Its no trouble for her, and it could just me her "thickness" she does have some meat on her bones for sure. Hopefully thats all it is. XD
I only have 2 left that dont run to the surface every 3-5 minutes for a gulp of air so their labyrinth organ seems to have came in without trouble


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## Punki

Oh and thanks for reading, sharing the excitement is half the fun XD


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## Sakura8

I hope there's nothing wrong with Miss Piggy. Could the back arch mean she's male, since the back does arch more with them? 

Squito and Sharky are going to be handsome or beautiful bettas, that's for certain.


----------



## Punki

My dad showed up just now, he usually comes by daily to play with my daughter a bit but my mom has her today and i didnt expect him to come in but he said "Ive got my glasses, i wanna look at the fish, i saw one last night i love" and then he comes in and immediately points out sharky. On one hand im thinking "BUT HES SO PRETTY~" and on the other im so happy to see dad excited about and "loving" a fish baby so much, so i may gave him my spare 3g and sharky later on, he lives walking distance so i can visit sharky as much as i want and 3g is nice space for sharky. So sharky MAY go to my dad )
Today i threw in some large mosquito larvae to see how theyd react and i was shocked, squito gobbled half of it down his throat and then sharky ripped the other half out of squitos mouth and gobbled it up, then i watched miss piggy and a SLIGHTLY smaller noncolored miss piggy do the same, so at least 4 of them can just gobble up whatever, the rest still need their smaller foods.


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## Punki

Picture spam since ive been playing with the camera.
































































They were just fed lunch so they were pooping out breakfast to make room, sorry about that xD I need to mess with the lighting a bit, some turned out alittle dark but im loving this camera and its ability to focus on my babies!


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## Sakura8

I'm amazed at how some are light and some are darker. I think it would be nice if Sharky could go to your dad so you can visit him. Although it would be nice if you could keep all of them and your dad can come and visit him. ;-)


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## Punki

lol XD Hes helped so much, he deserves first pick, besides if Sharky stays the stunner of the crew dad wouldnt mind letting me breed him if i ever decided to breed again. 
It is weird how some are dark and some light, but by day 3 they had shown the dark/light and just slowly worked colors into it.


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## Sakura8

Hehe, yeah, I guess if my dad presented me with free tanks all the time, he would deserve first pick too.  That's sweet of him to help you. 

It must be different with different kinds of fish. My platy fry are over a week and they all look clear with silver bellies. But some of them ARE a little darker clear and some are a little whiter but none of them have color.


----------



## Punki

You know i dont know what a platy looks like honestly, do you have pics of the adults/babies on here anywhere?


----------



## Punki

I also forgot to say, i was at walmart yesterday and i was looking at thier bettas, this is the walmart that i got oldman from. It seems they are only half filling the cups now, but the cups were clean, but then i saw one pushed behind all the ones on display and he was BEAUTIFUL but so so skinny, he was a purple bodied white fined with purple tips VT male whod been forgotten. His tail fin was glued together, he was swimming in his own poo, and he hadnt been fed in awhile im guessing. I wanted to buy him so bad but i just cant unless i plan to give up one more of my babies. I had some bottled spring water with me that was warm so i filled his cup on up, and put him right in front so maybe theyd notice him and change his water. I went back 2 hours later and made sure my added water had no ill effects, it was room temp and spring so i didnt figure it would and it didnt. He was such a curious little guy and he only needs some clean water and food and hed fix right up, thats the first time ive ever felt in my heart that i didnt want to leave without that fish, so it was really hard =/ My mom was with me so i kept trying to show him to her, hoping shed pity him and buy him but she was looking at makeup nearbye and when i mentioned he wasnt being cared for she just said "oh no dont tell me anymore it upsets me." SIGH... Tomorrow im gonig there to pick up some art supplies but i keep wanting to see if hes there. Everyone i know wants one of my babies, not a store bought betta but hed be so beautiful with the right care and he had the sweetest little curious face and pouty lips, he didnt look grouchy like most, he looked elegant in a way.... I wish someone on here lived closeby and would take him and heal him up, he doesnt need to be there!


----------



## Yaoilover12397

Aww dear...I'd buy him if I lived near you. Just hearing this makes my heart break and I'm looking for Betta to. I want to tell you to buy him but I know why you shouldn't


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## Sakura8

I'll try to take pics of the fry but all I get are specks - the closeup on my camera is lousy.
View attachment 34785
She's the female who dropped the fry I have
View attachment 34786
Another female
View attachment 34787
The male

That's really great you happened to have the spring water so you could fill the cup of that betta. I hope someone buys him, he sounds absolutely gorgeous. I'm impressed by your self-control. I would have bought him anyway and then scrambled around my house trying to find a place to put him. >_> Not the best way to get a fish but so far I've found warm spacious tanks for all of my impulse/pity buys. Although my newest female, who is less than an inch long, is in the 10g community tank. She's the same size as the neon tetras. She's not happy but she's not unhappy. I think she's just overwhelmed by the space.


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## Punki

Yeah besides my husband killing me for having another when i have two adults and babies, i honestly just dont have the space, the tanks ive gatherd from craigslist will all go with the babies to their new owners, i wanted to make sure they all got proper sized tanks. I could technically set up the 20g and divide but im not sure how much i could divide a 20g ) 
Well if anyone lives near ocala FL theres an adorable purple skinny boy at the walmart on 200 up front on the right of its display who needs some tlc!
Ill look to see if hes there still tomorrow at least. If by some miracle my husband grows a fish loving heart and it pulls at his heart then i may buy him but thats just me dreaming  Ill snap a pic of him though at the very least.


----------



## Punki

lol Sakura, honestly i dunno how i walked away either  I think its the heaters, were low on money now (broken down car, need to buy winter clothes for our daughter soon, bills jeep rising while paychecks dont) and ive spent enough this year on fish and breeding so i gotta keep my priorities straight, i plan to split up the 20g to hold oldman electra and two of their babies so theyd have 5g each and share a heater/filter. My house gets cold in the winter so theyd need one. But if i got this male id either have to be crafty for another section off of the 20g for him or id need to buy another heater for the 3g oldman is in now, thats the only spare ill have left once the babies are gone >.<
I wanted to do a sorority with the girls from this spawn but im starting to wonder if ill be able, with the money issues. I just need heaters, i got tanks and filters, lol ah i wish i could run across a bit of money XD


----------



## Punki

Oh and Sakura that second adult platy has the mickeymouse symbol on his tail! My daughter would LOVE that fish!! What are their temp/space/group requirements if you dont mind me asking, ah here i go thinking of more fish


----------



## Bettas Rule

This thread is incredible!! Thank you for being so thorough and informative! Great pictures as well !


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## Punki

Thank you! Ive said it before People sharing it is half the fun


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## Sakura8

Platies are really easy, they can be kept with bettas. Same temperature. They eat community flakes or mosquito larvae and you can feed them parboiled veggies. You could keep one or two platies in a 3g or you could keep more in a 10g. If you get a female, she'll be pregnant and drop fry for you for the next several months even if you don't get a male. The fry can be live food for the bettas. If you don't want to deal with the fry, get a male. They're easy to tell because their anal fin points back toward their tail. 

Here's hoping that little guy at Wal-Mart finds a new home fast. I want to get on a plane and go buy him!


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## Punki

Me also, im hoping to go back and not see him, hopefully that means someone saw him and felt the same. If hes there though ill post a picture. This forum gets so much traffic i may post it up and hope for the best


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## Sakura8

That's a good idea. There's bound to be someone in Florida near you who would want him if he's still there. 

Maybe you could buy him, hide him somewhere, and then give him away with the rest of the fry? Just tell everyone he was a really fast bloomer.


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## Punki

LOL!! If only people werent coming to check them out all the time and asking how many i have XD Theres a woman at my husbands work who wants a pink/purple blue colored one if i ended up with it, maybe that could technically work, i could nurse him back to health then do that omg how evil sakura hahahahahah im laughing so hard!


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## Sakura8

Yuppers, that's me, planting evil/mischevious ideas in people's heads. :lol: I'm a bad influence.


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## Punki

Offtopic, i went back to walmart today and hes still there, still unchanged, i tipped some old water out and some fresh in but i couldnt get the poo of the bottom. Husband shook his head no but i took pics...
Heres the one i wish i could take home =[ He looks more purple and less blue in RL








and this guy was so pretty i had to snap a shot of him...








not everyday i see a yellow one there...
and i want this thing!!








though they didnt label it so i dunno what it is =/ its ugly and creepy in a cute way 
and heres all the little guys walmart has =/








least most have cleanish water, im thinking they change the water 2 times a week from the times ive went, but the one guy i like missed out on food/water since he was hidden so now hes on the top right in front


----------



## Sakura8

Your Wal-Mart has a lot of bettas! Mine has at most 10 or 12. And I think, not sure, but I think that thing is a dragon goby. Another member, CopperArabian found something just like it at her Wal-Mart and that's what she found out after googling. I hear they get on the bigger side, though.

The yellow guy was handsome, I hope he finds a home too. It's too bad that guy is still there but at least you had a chance to clean his water up for him.


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## Punki

Mine used to have only 7-8 when i got oldman, then they had none for awhile, now they are overstocked. If i ever go back to petsmart ill post their bettas but OMG they have 100's they cant care for them all its sad =/


----------



## BetterBetta

I wish my dad would drive me to Ocala to get that boy, he'd be so pretty once he perks up in a decent home but Ocala is a good 1 1/2 hours from here, and it will prob. just be a dream  

BTW I think thats awesome your dad likes Sharky!


----------



## Punki

Aw, if only you could be closer  I was hoping hed be gone but no luck, his back fin has unglued a bit more since my first visit at least, maybe the spring water i dumped in the first time helped alittle. Watch me, next week ill sneak in with mosquito larvae or something crazy XD When i picked up his cup he got submissive vertical stripes, hes such a gentle guy =/


----------



## Punki

Miss piggys swimming oddity is becoming more pronounced. She can swim up for air, and down for food, and even chase her food, but when shes just looking around she seems to have to wag her tail hard to make her head tap the bottom of the tank, and when she sleeps she sleeps in a vertical position, her tail seems to pull her down a bit. she doesnt sink/float just arches and her tail points down. As long as she doesnt start acting like shes suffering ill not cull her, ill keep her if she doesnt grow out of it, shes still white and her fins are getting redder and redder. All but one baby can eat scoops from my mosquito larvae bucket. The one who is behind gets bbs and nematodes.


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## Sakura8

:/ Oh no, not Miss Piggy! I hope she grows out of it or something. Maybe she grew too fast and parts of her are still catching up?


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## Punki

Im not sure, last night i had to remove her, she was wedging herself between the wall and the suctioncup/ammonia reader and i saw a couple babies swim up and nip her tail. She wedged herself there for stability to sleep i think. You know how normally a betta will swim in spot and be horizontal? When she tried to do that her tail sinkz and shes stuck vertical wiggling her little tail. When i feed her, she can chase food but not as well as the others, and when fods on the floor she has to wiggle her tail alittle harder just to nip at the floor but when she nips her mouth hits the bottom and she then bounces up. Not sure if that makes sense D; When shes grazing she basically drags her belly along the floor then teeter totters to take bites. Shes def. mobile and eating and all, just somethings not right and the others noticed and started picking on her. Shes in a cup next to their tank so she can see them since i read fry get depressed and stop eating when seperated at first. Im gonig to try and get a video of her swimming/grazing and ask ofl if this seems like a deformity or swim bladder. Its worse then 2 days ago and i worried it was the bbs so i put her on mosquito larvae and nematodes, thank goodness shes big and can eat these things. When i come up to her cup she swims up to the glass and wiggles, they are all growing up so fast, doing their beg dances, but her wiggle is by far the cutest. I hope she will be okay =[


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## Sakura8

I hope she will be okay too. I would really be sad if you lost any more fry. Sad for your sake. I'll keep my fingers crossed and say a fishy prayer for her.


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## Punki

Thank you Sakura  As much as i pick on her and call her fat names shes obviously one of my favorites, Squito, her, and sharky. Miss piggy is most likely a male, her tail is a bit more pronounced and i just got a feeling, I dont mind if its a deformity as long as she eats and swims and stays happy like she is. Ill keep her no problem if thats the case. As of right now, half her tailfin and top/bottom fin is red and her body is still opaque. I think shes gonig to be a pretty unique girl. But shes made it clear shes unique from the start, she was the first to be named  I never would have thought shed be unhealthy since she was thriving the most. Seeing her siblings pick at her was a sure sign that it wasnt just my imagination, and something was wrong. I guess they prey on the weak/deformed. No damage was done but at the same time when theyd nip shed wedge herself alittle higher instead of the usual nip back "leave me alone." I was gonig to leave her in overnight till i saw her hiding like that, she needs her space/rest/livefood. Im super attached to her! There are 6 others that i am curious of and care for, but they dont catch my heart, their personalities arent so pronounced, just miss piggy, squito and sharky. The one with two different colored eyes is growing great, but as cool as that is i dont feel that attachment ) But yes, thank you, keep miss piggy in your fishy thoughts and prayers, shes got such a funny cute personality, i dont want her to suffer.


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## Punki

Here is a video of miss piggy eating breakfast, not sure if you can tell what i am seeing as abnormal but i hope so 
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=DSCN0597.mp4


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## Sakura8

I see what you mean about her hind end dragging her down. I'm glad she seems so active still but you definitely made the right call with her being picked on. It's like her siblings thought, "Great, she's weak, let's pay her back!" Funny how we keep calling her "she" even though you're pretty sure she's going to be male. 

If it's a back deformity and she can swim, she can still live a happy life. She'll just need a very shallow tank. Hopefully it's nothing serious. I can see why you're so attached to her, she does have so much personality. It comes out in every pic you take of her.


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## Punki

If i am 100% sure its a boy ill have to switch to Mr. Piggy XD
I sent OFL the info and video in pm and she said that the chances of miss piggy living a full and happy life as a pet is good. It could be as simple as her inhaling too much air but it sounds like a swim bladder deformity. I need to epsom salt her and keep her warm and covered and feed her smaller meals, i think that since she eats SO much that shes pressured her bladder as it grew and caused the issue. Regardless, i think the outlook is good for her.


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## Sakura8

I'm so glad to hear that, yay for OFL! Now that she mentions, it does make sense that maybe she ate too much and caused her swim bladder to form weird. Hmm. But yay, I'm so glad the outlook is sunny. *happy dance*


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## bettalover2033

Wow this is a pretty long thread and it is really interesting! Love the fry and the random-ish side conversation. Can't wait to see more pics! I really like the blue one in the last set of pictures you took!

BL2033


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## Punki

Thanks  Ill take some pics tonight, i had to go refill all my gallons and gallons of jugs of water today so im pretty pooped XD After i change their water ill get some pics 
Im a bit sad miss piggy is not with her siblings, now when i snap pics inside the tank none will be of her, she will have to have her own personal photoshoot  She didnt seem to have any worsening issues after gobbling down a mosquito larvae but she definatly hold her tail downward slanted and arches her back so basically when shes looking at you you see two eyes, a mouth and a dangling tail underneath. As if shes sitting on her tail relaxing or something. Such a happy baby though. 
After filling up all those jugs i had to go to my grandpas house, shed bought a heater she didnt needs and told me to just keep it so WOO a heater for winter that heats 20g, so i guess im going to switch to 25g and divide it up at least for winter so they can all stay warm together, maybe not fill it all the way, we'll see depending on how wel the heater works. She ended up with a marineland 23g tank that looks AMAZING and shes going to just do goldfish, tomorrow i gotta go to petco/petsmart and find her a hood and filter sponge for the filter she got used. Its such a pretty tank though!
I actually wil probobly move them to the 10g today but i only plan to put 5g into the tank and slowely adjust them to it using their current 3g. They need more space, they arent tiny anymore. I was looking at how small they were when i took pics after the transfer and they all look so different


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## vette91

One of my NIB fry asks like Miss Piggy. She has a bit of a swim bladder problem for whatever problem. Tried epsom salt and everything but she still has it. She is doing fine though! She just stays closer to the top usually but can swim down just fine 
On another note, I finally found my first mosquito larvae. I have a compost bin and some water collected beneath it and I looked in it today to find about 500 larvae. I collected a few and put them in all my betta tanks and they are all gone now


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## Punki

Im glad to know yours is okay also. I think im going to have aggressive fry as they have lipped each other since about 3 weeks old, as soon as they notice a smaller/weaker sibling they pick, ive had to remove 3 total, squito for swim bladder and it resolved a couple days later, a tiny one, to do constant water changes and extra feeds to, and now miss piggy. Squito and the tiny one are both okay now with the group but i dunno about miss piggy. I did epsom salts tonight, it was scary knowing she was going to have to adjust to the epsom salt so i did it slow but she still panicked a bit. Shes been resting alot since last night, last night i think she had had enough, she was hiding so tightly wedged and they were still trying to nip her. Now she just rests and when i bring food she does a wiggle dance and comes to the surface like an adult XD I hope she makes it, seeing her swim up to my finger and nibble a mosquito larvae off was adorable 
Glad ot hear you have mosquito larvae in your bucket now. How old are your little ones? Mine hit a month old about 5 days ago and i walked outside and scooped up a bunch and tossed them in, they ate till their little bellies were round and black, Only 1-2 larvae lived long enough to turn mosquito XD Its really boosting their growth too, i can see visible color adding to them daily too this past 5 days. Feeding is much easier now that they eat that too lol, less hatching bbs! 
Today i decided to scrape the algae off the bottom a bit in their tank cause it looked gross, it still looks gross but its an improvement at least, and i gave them a nice big 80% water change afterwards, i like the big water change days, i do 40-50% daily but the big 80% changes really seem to give them a growth spurt. Sharky is getting huge, hes an inch long for sure, maybe more, and a mettalic blue/green no matter how you look at him, he just shimmers all over the tank. And Squito is a girl i think =x Theres a miss piggy look alike thats really large and im starting to notice some aggression so he/she may be the next one out. Ive got 1g mason jars ready for them once they need separated. I was hoping to keep them together for 2-3 months but my group is just too aggressive, i think mommy and daddy are both pretty rough fish so i guess i cant be too surprised.


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## Punki

Miss piggy still isnt better/worse, shes sleeping vertically or going to the bottom for naps. I hope to not wake to a sudden loss of her, im feeling uneasy for some reason. Picture time..
Daddy wigglin








<- squito---------sharky->








Squito and friends.








Sharky lookin all amazing 








My poor miss piggy =/








btw Sakura, for some reason miss piggy is suddenly reminding me of Coraline, its a nice feeling


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## Jirothebetta

WOW! Sharky is looking AWESOME! So is everybody else, so nice to see them growing so well :-D

Sorry to hear about miss piggy's swim problem though, hopefully the epsom salts will help her(or him XD) kick it off ;-)


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## vette91

No babies yet! Just conditioning. I was waiting for atleast mosquito larvae before I tried my hand at breeding. I have baby brine shrimp and hikari starter. So now i'm all ready!


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## Sakura8

Punki, she does look like Coraline, doesn't she? Maybe it's because her body is pale and she's getting that red tail. I'm glad she can be a reminder for you. Coraline would be proud of all the hard work you've done with these fry.


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## bettalover2033

Sharky looks great! As for miss piggy, she should be fine as she gets older because i was reading an article on fry raising and breeding and found that it is very common for a couple of fry to get swim bladder issues (SBD). So dont worry too much but if i were you i would just keep an eye on here.

What do you feed them and how many times a day.

It is completely different when fry have SBD than it is when adults have it. Its like when a baby has a cold and a grown man has a cold. You cant give the baby the same treatments as you would give a man.
Good luck!


-BL2033


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## Punki

OFL said the usual adult treatment of epsom salts is used for the fry, but id say the medication route couldnt be used in this case for sure XD They get nematodes and mosquito larvae for breakfast, then they get bbs and bloodworms for lunch then they get usually mosquito larvae for dinner with bbs for the little two. Miss piggy overeats, for sure. Im glad t know her chances are good, shes a sweet one, i hated seeing the others pick at her =/


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> OFL said the usual adult treatment of epsom salts is used for the fry, but id say the medication route couldnt be used in this case for sure XD They get nematodes and mosquito larvae for breakfast, then they get bbs and bloodworms for lunch then they get usually mosquito larvae for dinner with bbs for the little two. Miss piggy overeats, for sure. Im glad t know her chances are good, shes a sweet one, i hated seeing the others pick at her =/



Well OFL knows exactly what she is talking about! Also i didnt specify that it isnt always a huge difference with fry and adults.

-BL2033


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## Punki

All is well this morning, Miss piggy is still the same but shes alive and okay, SHEW!


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## Sakura8

Way to go Miss Piggy! I'm glad she's alive and well, I would be so sad if she wasn't. Sharky and Squito are both turning into such handsome or beautiful bettas. They just shine and sparkle so.


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## Punki

Thanks Sakura, me too  Ive been feeding her two small mosquito larvae 4 times a day, instead of the massive large ones she was inhaling in the fry tank. A smaller white one has developed a simlar swim issue but not so much, it MAY need removed if it gets worse but for now it still stands its ground with the others. Sharky and squito both have dark tips, squito is a steel blue like daddy and sharky is a purplish blue tailend with a greenish blue body. They are really large! Its amazing how fast they are growing since introducing the mosquito larvae to their diets. I didnt expect to have such vibrant colors so soon at all on any of them. Miss piggy is still hanging out in her cup of epsom salts, no improvements. But when i walk up she ALWAYS swims up to the edge of her cup and wiggles, shes so cute >.<


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## Punki

On a small sidenote. Oldman is near Miss piggy and hes reacting to her by displaying breeding behavior. Hes dancing and bubblenesting and doing the "come here" dance under the nest. I wonder if he just thinks shes a girl cause of the short fins or if they can somehow tell sooner then we can xD
Her response is basically...
-wiggles- ooh a friend..whats it doing?ah im tired -sleeps-


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## Sakura8

I think it's so cute Miss Piggy already knows the wiggle dance at her age.  I'm imagining her and I keep laughing thinking about it. 

I put my 6 platy fry in a 10g and now I can't find them half the time. O.O They're so tiny! One of them is a runt, though, half the size of the others so I may remove it. But they don't get excited to see me at all. They don't even know I'm there. Raising platy fry isn't nearly as exciting as raising betta fry.


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## Punki

Aw, mine just recently started swimming to the glass when i sat down to watch/feed them. Maybe your platys just need more time. Im not sure, i noticed that fish that like to live in groups tend to not ever get close to me.
Yesterday i went to walmart and someone had bought the betta id moved to the front. When a betta dies they just throw it out i guess, and put the cup in the back, there was only two cups in the back, just like last time. So hes been bought, along with the yellow one, both were gone. So if someone from here managed to save them then thank you! I was happy to see it


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## Sakura8

I'm glad to hear the bettas were bought and I will say a fishy prayer that they went to a good home. 

Schooling fish definitely don't bond with their owners, not the way bettas and other more solitary fish do. But even if my platy fry don't ever acknowledge me personally, I'll just be happy if they learn to come to the surface for food. Their mother doesn't so I'm never sure if she's getting enough to eat.


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## Punki

They are pretty to watch though so thats nice at least  Yesterday when i went out i bought my grandmas goldfish some proper food, and since they dont mind bubbles i got one of those long airstones and buried it in the gravel. Bought her a nice hood proper lights so she doesnt melt the hood, and a nice carbon filter XD She gave me 25 dollars and i somehow made it go a long way xD I also put in a few live plants also so those goldfish are spoiled now XD They stick together and only come to the front to look around when nobodys near the tank. Im used to my bettas so everytime they come up front i say hi and stuff but they just swim off XD


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## Sakura8

I'm used to feeding my bettas, that's for sure. It's so nice to have a fish that swims up eagerly waiting for food. My tetras run when I put my hand in to feed them. Honestly, all I can do is dribble pellets in and hope everyone gets a mouthful. :/ 

I'm so glad you're taking care of your grandmother's goldfish. Next to bettas, goldfish are the most misunderstood and mistreated fish so it's nice to hear hers will be properly taken care of.


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## bettalover2033

Sakura8 said:


> I'm glad to hear the bettas were bought and I will say a fishy prayer that they went to a good home.
> 
> Schooling fish definitely don't bond with their owners, not the way bettas and other more solitary fish do. But even if my platy fry don't ever acknowledge me personally, I'll just be happy if they learn to come to the surface for food. Their mother doesn't so I'm never sure if she's getting enough to eat.


I agree completely! I really like oscars because they are so dependable like most fish but i think they like the idea of their owner talking to them. Especially the crazy owners that talk to their fish (Including me) lol.

People dont know that fish have feelings too not as accurate as other animals but its there. Just because they cant yell out screaming because of a pain, doesn't mean that they dont have feelings.

I like solitary fish because they expect their owners to go above and beyond and if you cant do that, you shouldnt have them because that is what they deserve.

I like the fish that greet you when you walk in the door and out.

That's just my thought.

-BL2033


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## Sakura8

Yes! I love the stories I hear about people playing ping pong ball with their Oscars, or having Oscars who roll over to have their belly rubbed. :-D My schooling fish have each other, they don't need me. But my solitary bettas have no one BUT me so I feel obliged to pay as much attention to them as I can. Just like I would with an Oscar. But in a much smaller tank. Without the mess. Oscars are messy eaters, I hear.


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## Punki

36 days old fry major picture spam! Youve been warned 








Squitos toxic








Poor miss piggys lonely








Three random babies








Sharky! Its alittle dark but really shows his tail tips 








This one reminds me of miss piggy but she doesnt have color, shes just large and fat








Sharky, pretty as usual 








Sharky and friends








Cute little squito looking at me








Squito and friends








Miss piggy








Squito and the second miss piggy  Squito is so metallic blue when he moves but from other angles like this hes not so much.








Miss piggy 








The miss piggy wiggle dance!








Sharky is so glittery








him again 








My smallest eating with the others








Miss piggy giving her best sad sulky lonely look. She really wants back in with the others.








Random babies, no color lol but the one on the rights got hint of red on the fin








Squito doing a handstand with the light hitting his color just right, squito in the background 








This ones got the same problem as miss piggy ALMOST, she still defends herself and doesnt hide from the others so as long as shes okay im okay. Hopefully this passes though.








The same fish eatting, i thought it was cute 








We all know who this handsome man is








Miss piggy was wedged like this but in a tighter higher part. They all like to do it to an extent, it moves so they dont get stuck but still, im not fond of it, im thinking of removing it =x








The above baby out of the wedge spot. The colors coming into this one are interesting.








Just another shot of the colors coming in, sort of green you think?








Tiny one, being tiny, but this one will nip back, dont mess with this one lol
I also forgot to mention a little over a week ago when all that pesticide stuff was going on i found a tadpole and decided to save it from the water dumps and contaminations so its been in a jar inside. Its starting to get leg nubs though so i need to put it in a kritter keeper with some land space for it to crawl out into eventually, then ill let it go. I think its a toad =x








It eats fishfood like a pro XD


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## Sakura8

:shock: Where to even start! They're all such great pics, I can't get enough of them. Miss Piggy really does look like Coraline in some of the pics with the red coming in on her fins. And Squito and Sharky are so handsome and so sparkly! It looks like maybe both Miss Piggy and Sharky may be combtails? 

I sure hope the second Miss Piggy gets over her swim bladder problems too. Miss Piggy is so adorable, she looks so grown up in her little cup. You take such great pics, Punki, you capture their little faces and their little personalities so well.

And I'm glad you rescued the tadpole. He looks cute.


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## caitic10

That tadpoles very lucky you found it! What are you going to do with it once it gets older?

Ive raised frogs before.  Your little tadpole should be fine on fish foods like mosquito larvae and such. Once it gets older you can feed it houseflies! As a frog setup, I cover the bottom of the tank with sand and fill it halfway with water. I use rocks to make little islands f land for them to rest on. 

Sharky is beautiful! He looks like a little betta now!


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## Punki

Thanks sakura  I think miss piggy, sharky and squito all have nice ct tips coming in so they will probobly be combtails. Not sure about the others yet since they arent as advanced. Miss piggy and sharkys spread is a bit wider then squitos though so they will end up with fuller tails i THINK XD 
Yeah the second miss piggy problem baby is looking bloated tonight, so i think its time to remove her and limit her foods also, when not eating she rests on the bottom with her tail to the side a bit, and scoots her belly around. I think shes overeating also. She is trying to nip the ones that get in her way like miss piggy did D; Its soooo hard to catch/cup a fry! lol They come up for air but are so quick to rush back down! I was happy to get a few face closeups this time, mostely miss piggy and the one in mid-eat 
The tadpole is just kinda interesting, a very odd thing to watch grow


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## Punki

Caitic Im not too sure, i think i just planned on releasing it when it climbed onto the branch in its 1g jar XD Im not sure if i could manage to care for it properly with all these fish around. Im pretty sure itll be a big fat toad though so ill release it one night when they are all out and about. 
Sharky is definatly the stunner of the group, with squito close in 2nd xD
Funny though because sharky got his name because he had such an "ugly" face, it looked so angry and weird when he was small, he looked like he had a sharks mouth. Now hes all pretty, he proved me wrong


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## Animalfreak

Cute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Punki

I managed to cup the second one whos like miss piggy after seeing her obvious HUGE belly and her breathing heavy in the java moss. Shes now in epsom salts floating and adapting to the change. Miss piggys stomach never got this big. They dont eat anything that could constipate them so its got to be overeatting. Shouldnt they know when to stop o.o I dont THINK i overfeed, most eat till full then poop and eat more or go nap awhile but these two both gorge and nip others out of their way. Gonna limit her foods tomorrow also, her and miss piggy only get small mosquito larvae throughout the day. Hopefully this can fix them. Theres no noticable change in miss piggy, she eats and poops normally, but still swims fnny. This one though, ugh, big big belly...


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## caitic10

Aww...pooor thing. I hope it recovers!


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## Punki

Thanks. Im feeling alittle guilty tonight. While miss piggy was growing rapidly and i was giggling and cracking jokes on her pig behavior she was slowely damaging her swim bladder i think, and i should have removed her and limited much sooner maybe. Her balance is the same if not worse today, and its day 3 of epsom salts. She is still excited and catches her food, but if she doesnt know im there she just sits at the bottom, no exploring or anything. It also seems alittle harder for her to get up for air, and when she does she almost has to jump to grab air. I dont want to cull her but if she continues down this path she will eventually suffer not being able to reach the surface. I hope it doesnt come to that and i wish the epsom salts would work. I suddenly realized and got confirmed today that im overfeeding, i feed small amounts but i feed 4 times a day and they are past the 1 month stage so their feedings can be decreased, but i didnt do that and JUST after the 1 month point miss piggy and now the second baby have swim bladder issues. I just dont like knowing that one of my favorites was hurting herslf and i didnt know, and thought it was funny =/
The second baby shows no improvement in its cup, but its no worse yet either. Miss piggy has to work to get air, and work alittle to grab food. UGHHH >.<
The first female i ever had was coraline and she was white with red fins, like miss piggy, and viewing miss piggy reminds me of coraline but i think maybe im not meant to have white females with red fins or something because their swim bladder keeps messing up on me and epsom salt doesnt help D;
Edit: i must just be feeling down because who knows if miss piggy is even a girl, its just she remonds me of my first


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## Animalfreak

So sad to hear ):


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## bettalover2033

@Punki: You shouldnt beat yourself up about it though. It happens to a lot of us. Including me. Im sure that it has happened to many experienced owners in the past. Sadly it is currently happening to you think positive and hey if you are as crazy as some of the members on here (still talking about me) talk to her lol.

Dont worry it will pass eventually. We all have our fingers crossed and hope the best for her. I think i'll call her a her until we can figure out what the gender is.


You know how you said that you used to think that it was funny when she would eat a lot and you joked around with the issue, at the time you DID NOT KNOW about it, so you should not be so hard on yourself. It was a mistake. everyone goes through many mistakes. We are humans, we make mistakes. If you didn't you wouldn't be considered a human lol.

Im just kidding around with you but my whole point is turn the negative into a positive for your girl.

Keep us posted and Good Luck with everything. 

-BL2033


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## Sakura8

Punki, don't feel bad. Don't forget, this is your first spawn so you're still learning and gaining experience. Miss Piggy certainly doesn't blame you so you shouldn't blame yourself either. You're doing wonderfully for your first spawn so just keep right on loving those little fry. 

And I do have a quick question: do you use a box filter in your fry tank? I have one in my platy fry tank but I have to turn it off for them to eat otherwise they bob around too much at the surface. I'm wondering if I even need it.


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## Punki

Thanks all, i could accept that she might be a bit "off" and just take the best care possible, but if she suffers, its just sad, i feel bad. Its true im learning and its human nature but stil GAHHH WHY DIDNT I THINK HARDER D; Still have high hopes for her, shes still cute and sweet and id just LOVE to wake up and see her improve tomorrow, its too sad for her to make it this far then not make it.
Sakura i actually took a huge yellow sponge and stuffed the intake of a small whisper air filter into it then rubberbanded, it basically drizzles water out and doesnt disturb them at all. I replace the rubberband weekly just in case but so far so good. 
In the morning if miss piggy/the other one are worse im gonig to up them to 2tsp a gallon, i didnt want to shock them with too much at once but i want them to live full happy lives >.<


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## Sakura8

Punki, I know, it's human nature to think "What if." I've done that with some of my other pets. But I don't think Miss Piggy is suffering. I think right now she may just be a little mopey because she's on her own. She knows she's loved. They all know they're loved. I will say a big prayer that the epsom salts help them both. And thank you for the filter tip. I think I may have a filter I can use that I can baffle. The poor little fry look weird bobbing on the surface as they try to eat. 

Hang in there Punki, you're doing fine. *hugs*


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## Punki

Thanks Sakura  Theyve been through so much and ive learned so much along the way, i just kinda felt like "Okay im attaching now, these ones left are now precious to me, they survived everything my newness threw at them" and miss piggy has always made me smile most. Itd be horrible to attach and think of her and be reminded of little coraline only for her to suffer the same fate ya know? Its crual to imagine that happening to me, so even if im not mad at me i feel generally mad that its happening again and reminding me of the past i guess. I just checked on her and she was resting at the bottom and sawm up and made eyecontact, but shes getting no more food tonight so i just backed away and she laid back down. Their little cups fill with poo so i know shes not constipated but i kinda just wish it was that simple in a way 
I had a sponge filter for the 10g but when i had to move them i had to think of something and i knew their labyrinth organ was due to show at anytime for them so i rushed in that filter like that to keep the top water not slimy XD


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## Sakura8

*hugs* Miss Piggy WILL end up differently than Coraline. For one thing, Coraline probably had horrible care before she came to you and that's why she got so sick. Miss Piggy has gotten the best care since day one so she's got a lot of extra health that poor Coraline probably didn't have. And Miss Piggy's swim bladder problem is different. Thinking back on everything, with what I've learned now about fish diseases from DarkMoon17, I think Coraline may have had a very bad internal bacterial infection that caused a buildup of fluids pushing on her swim bladder, probably from being at Petsmart. But we had no way of knowing that at the time. That's the problem with internal bacterial infections - they don't show any helpful symptoms for diagnosis until it's too late. Miss Piggy isn't sick, she's not fighting infections or anything else. She'll pull through.


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## Punki

Thanks for that diagnosis, its good to know theres at least an idea of what happened to her. I sometimes look back on her disease thread and try and figure it out. I still have the vide of her flopping around on the bottom also that i sometimes come across. Whatever it was, it was brutal, left her unable to swim, and she couldnt even rest on the bottom, its as if se was having seizures and shed stop breathing, only to come back alive and suffer more. Such a violent thing that was. I guess realistically, if miss piggy can always swim to surface then at worst she may be like one of your special bettas i saw in a pic, that cant swim properly but gets around. I just dont want to suddenly realize she isnt happy/thriving and have to consider my options. Poor cupped girls are so lonely. When their siblings swim by they get so excited.
In other news sharky got prettier somehow lol, his tail is geting the 2 prongs for sure, i can see them spreading like Electras. If he wasnt so little id say hes at full color. I cant imagine what else he could do 
My two different colored eyed guy seems to be evening out his eye colors, now they are both dark so im not sure what was going on there.
My tinyest one went up for air today, hes way behind but now i can say all are breathing air. I wonder when people stop clearwrapping the tank, i wouldnt do it just yet, but just for future reference.
Electra is currently obviously in the mood to breed. Shes been alone and fed as usual but her bars are showing more then they ever did while breeding. I guess it just happens sometimes 
Oldman is pretty much back to his usual self, lazy and grumpy and a pig, but not all depressed. Hes back to sleeping on his leaf and not the floor so i guess his mood has lifted thank goodness!


----------



## Sakura8

I know, poor Coraline, it was definitely brutal, unlike anything I've seen since. It's like the bacterial infection got into her brain. Stupid pet stores and their subpar pet care. :evil: But in the time she had, I know she was very happy and content with you and I know she loved you as much as you love her. 

Sharky's going to look amazing. Whoever said pet store bettas won't have good-looking fry should take a gander at Sharky because he's so glittery and handsome. And that's odd about the little guy with the eyes. It's almost as if the pigments developed in one eye first or something strange like that. But I'm glad they're evening out, even though he would have looked unusual. 

I'm also so glad to hear Old Man is back to himself, I was worried about him. He must have slept on the floor because his leaf reminded him of his fry. Or maybe he felt like he needed to punish himself or something. But I'm glad he's back to being Old Man. And Electra is a funny, funny girl. She's like, "Hey, that breeding thing was pretty easy and afterward, I get lots of extra larva and love. So let's try it again!"


----------



## Punki

I agree about oldman, it seemed like he was punishing himself, hed search for his little ones and then settle onto the floor and sit so depressed-like. Im starting to think maybe oldman is going blind though, i used to be able to tap and hed quickly see any food dropped and gobble it up but now i have to drop it really close to his face, and sometimes even then he doesnt notice it. I thought maybe he wasnt enjoying the pellets but its the same with mosquito larvae, he sees and chases them, but before he would catch and eat all of them within 1-2 minutes, now he doesnt notice them unless they swim right near him and move around. I guess its possible for a betta to go blind as they age? Ive heard of people buying a blind betta but not so much about it slowely becoming an issue. Hopefully he just still isnt at 100% yet and will recover. He spends most of his day watching miss piggy wiggle and thinks shes a female so he bubblenests, lol!


----------



## Sakura8

I think it's very possible for a betta to lose his sight as he gets older, just like old dogs and cats can get cataracts. I haven't heard of it happening but if it does, Old Man will be all right.  You just may need to cup him or something to feed him. Poor guy. At least, if his sight really IS going, it went after he got to see pretty Electra.


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## Punki

Its as if hes saying "Ive been in a cup, ive been in a bowl, ive been in a tank, ive been in a huge tank, ive found my love, weve made babies, ive seen everything" i guess, now if he loses sight its not so bad, though id miss him seein me and his foods. Breeding really does take alot out of even conditioned bettas, him being old, i just consider myself lucky he made it at all 
I took some pics, they are uploading ill post when they are done


----------



## Punki




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## Sakura8

They're so beautiful. They're coming along so nicely and those colors! Sharky and Squito are amazing. And their little ventrals are so cute, they're still so tiny.


----------



## indjo

Wasn't daddy blue? And what color was mommy?

Btw, congrats. Your fry looks great.


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## Punki

Thanks, yes daddy is blue and red, the standard VT color, and mommy, shes a mix lol. Heres a pic of daddy and mommy.
















I figure ill get blue/red, but sharky is a greenish color, and one of the white ones has some yellow coming into its fins so i guess its just random with these two so far


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## Punki

Heres a little video of miss piggy today, she seems to be staying the same in the swimbladder dept, but she isnt so lethargic today, shes watching her siblings excitedly. Ignore the background mickeymouse, my daughter was watching it 
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=DSCN0803.mp4


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## indjo

Interesting..... I would never have thought of the color outcome of your fry. Green and platinum/white, and mixes/combos .....


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## Jirothebetta

You know, miss piggy really doesn't look like she's all that bad off...sure she's swimming a little wonky but I don't see anything too serious...I'd say that as long as she can breath and eat she (or he) will be okay ;-)

@indjo- I know what you mean about the colors, they came out so beautiful and crazy colored...I think it has to do with Electra possibly being a cambodian genotype, plus all the iridescence in both the parents...Like sharky for instance, his color is ALL iridescence XD


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## Sakura8

In a way, she reminds me of my handicap betta who swims in an upright (head up, tail down) position. As long as the tank is shallow and she has plants to perch in, she should be a happy betta, assuming the epsom salts don't help cure her.


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## Punki

Thanks for all the input. 
Indjo- Yeah i didnt look into genes too much but i knew that red and blue and VT was dominant so i expected alot of oldmans and maybe a few lucky electra colors but so far everyones either pale bodied and getting red on their fins or sharky...hes just a green with maroon tail tips, he defied both parents. Squito is a dark blue with red tips so he may end up looking like daddy, but all the light colored ones just have a pearly white iridescence or a very vey light blue iridescence on their bodies. I love electras look and oldmans attitude so that would be a nice combo, its a fun surprise 
Jiro- I had to google cambodian genotype and it still is confusing to me a bit, but looking at pics of other bettas labeled with it i can sortof see how it could be. I wish i studied types a bit more now XD They are not what i expected at all but better then i expected so far  Thanks for the input on Miss piggy, its reassuring
Sakura- YES She reminded me of the pic i saw of your special little betta. She may end up being just that. Do you happen to have a pic of your setup for that one of yours for future reference?


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## Sakura8

Yes, I'll post pics as soon as I take them, I'd be more than happy to share the setup with you.


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## Jirothebetta

Cambodian genotype means that they have gene's for the white(or just light) colored bodies but are not cambodian themselves, if the babies maintain their light body colors it means one of your fish is cambodian genotype, and since cambodian is a mix of different color genes itself it would make since that you got such crazy colors ;-)....hope that cleared it up a bit...I'm till learning the whole genetic thing myself, I might be completely off on this one :shock:


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## Sakura8

Punki, I ended up taking a video because I couldn't get the lighting right for photos. Sorry it's so long but I think it shows everything. The tank is a medium sized Petco Pet Keeper, the heater is the Zoo Med Betta Therm heater but I'm going to get a different one as it gets close to winter, that thing doesn't work at all. He's in 1 gallon of water. Hope this helps you.

http://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff456/SakuraNeko8/?action=view&current=MVI_1345.mp4


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## Punki

Thanks so much for the video. She does swim similar to him. At least with a video i can see how he gets around and rests and everything also. Hes adorable, just warms my heart watching him wiggle along  I think i will do the same thing when the time comes, hopefully i can find a reliable heater also that will work in a half filled tank like that. Let me know what you end up getting 
And ty Jiro, your explanation helped me a bit more then the websites


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## Sakura8

You're welcome Punki, my pleasure.  I'll definitely let you know which heater. I think it's going to be a Hydor heater for nano tanks but I don't know exactly what it's called so I'll post when I get it.


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## Punki

I use one of these things to put my bbs into the baby tank








Its less messy and i can control the flow better then a baster. Theyve learned that this or a net = food so when either touch water they swim RIGHT UP TO IT and rub their bodies on it ect, its quite cute. Today i was in a bit of a rush so i was putting the bbs in and not paying full attention and i squeezed a bit too hard so there was a bit of a current as the bbs came out and sharky and squito got stress stripes XD Ive never seen oldman, electra, or any of the babies get them before today. It was cute and exciting to me  No damage done, i never squirt it in HARD or anything but i thought it was so cute that they were like "Oh the blue tube, FOODTIME -gobblegobble- WHOA WHERE AM I GOING!?"
XD
The second baby i cupped seems to be improving, it still lays on the bottom alot but its control and the amount of effort it uses is less. Miss piggy is still the same. But from watching her alot and all of your positive experiences and thoughts im optimistic and think she will be fine. Thanks


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## bettaloverforever16

Hope the bloated ones make it alright 

Ms Piggy is so cute! She does remind me of Caraline (Excuse me if I spelt that wrong) They're growing up so well!


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## Punki

Thank you  Theyve started coloring up so much, everyday theres a bit of new color. Im so happy, and sad at the same time lol. Im starting to miss my tiny babies that needed 4 feedings a day, but also so happy these guys are thriving so well  I took a few pics a bit ago..








Squito in the spotlight, sharky behind him 








Squito showing off his pretty blue








A bit bright but the four big beggers in the tank








Squito was really attention seeking today. Usually hes a shy one.








A good pic of squito and sharky side by side. You can see the combtail starting to show in their tails!








This ones turning pearly white with red fins as well, like miss piggy. 
I didnt get pics of miss piggy or the other one, their cups are hard to get out unless its feeding time


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## BlueEyes

They're gorgeous Punki. You've done a fantastic job.


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## Punki

Thanks BlueEyes. As much work and worry they can be i wouldnt trade it for the world. Im really enjoying this experience


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## BlueEyes

That's good. I've been enjoying reading along. I don't think I'd ever be able to handle breeding, but I can't wait until I can get betta fish of my own.


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## Punki

Well thats the last pic ill get of squito and sharky together because squito is a male or a very angry girl. After dropping food i watched them all get bit and hide from him as he gobbled everyones fill of food. Few ventured up to him to try and get a bit but when they did hed open wide and bite, not just nip. As i was trying to decide if i should jar him or if its him or sharky (it was dark) i saw him grab a tail, bite down, and jerk his head back. No injury but seriously aggressive behavior! They dont even flare yet, why are they being so mean D; So at exactly 6 weeks tonight i had to remove my first aggressor. I thought for sure itd be sharky! BTW a couple of questions-
Anyone know when to stop clearwrapping everything?
Anyone jarred this early? Well for aggression i mean, i thought id have 2-3 months before it started. They all peck at each other but squito was being serious tonight.


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## Amphibianite

I totally want a little pale girl lol.
They are looking wonderful you are doing a great job.


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## Sakura8

Goodness, Squito is a feisty one, isn't he? I definitely laughed at your "male or angry girl" comment though.  Are they in the 10g yet? Maybe they are showing aggression earlier because of the smaller space. Kind of a, "I want my own room now, mom! I'm too big to share a room!" 

And happy 6 weeks little guys! Wow, 6 weeks. That's a full quarter of classes at some colleges.


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## Jirothebetta

I'm no help on the clear wrapping thing...but I did jar Tomiko when he was still really young, not for aggression though, (he wasn't growing very fast and I wanted to be able to keep a better eye on him) ...I think he was like maybe 4 or 5 weeks when I jarred him...he might have been a little older though :|


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## Punki

Aw Amphi your in Oregon! If you were in FL id give ya one 
Sakura, after writing that i started thinking about that, figure i can put them all back in the 10g and see how they act or just start jarring. Id hate to jar so soon though. I keep planning on doing the 10g, but then that hurricane Irene was pointed at fl for a bit and everyone got into a panic and told me to conserve water, but its past us now so i should give it a go. Thanks for asking that, and reminding me. Ive been doing 90% water changes daily in this 3g but i think of it in a silly way, if i clump ALL the babies together id have 1 adult betta so i figure im basically just wiping the growth hormone out, but yeah they are larger, they need more space to eat in peace. If squito decides to grab-pull another tail though, hes out =x
Jiro~-Aw cute Tomiko XD I guess ill give the 10g a go to see if they are fighting for more space or what, lately ive been on a new medication and i swear my brain is dead XD Cant keep a train of thought, its TIME FOR GROWOUT!


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## Amphibianite

I will make a special trip just to come get one XD.


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## Sakura8

Squito grabbing the tail reminded me of a big brother pulling his little sister's pony tail. "Mom, Big Brother pulled my tail! Waaaah!"


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## Punki

LOL Sakura 
Well ive got them back in the 10g and its halfway full, ill fill it the rest tomorrow, i dont want to shock them too much. I put squito back with his siblings since he wasnt separated long. His aggression is nonexistant until theres food and instead of biting and pulling hes doing what i call "the creep" He slowely swims up, giving death glares at the others, they take notice, its as if hes saying "back away from the bug" because thats what they do, they slowly move away, keeping direct eyecontact with him, and then he eats whatever they were eatting.


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## Sakura8

I really love how you notice all of their funny behaviors, Punki. It gives the little guys so much personality already.  Squito sounds almost like a cat; that's what one of mine does during feeding times. I hope the 10g helps. They're going to get big so soon! Wait, they're already so big! But so cute and tiny still! But big! @[email protected]


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## bettalover2033

@Punki: How is miss piggy and the fry today?

@Sakura8: i think it is because it is her first spawn and she is excited so she is going to notice everything lol.

-BL2033


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## Sakura8

I think it's great. I have a tank of 6-7 platy fry (never could get an accurate count) and I can sit and watch them for a while and still not notice if they have cute behaviors or not. But then again, maybe that's because they're platies and not bettas.


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## Punki

I cant find anything cute or noticable about other fish types either but im known to attach a personality onto dogs-cats-bettas and a couple other types of animals, i kindof put words in their mouth for some reason. Like yesterday i was hanging out laundry and a squirrel jumped out of a tree and ran up to my foot, i was shocked! And it started squeeking and wiggling its tail and before i could process it getting so close a huge hawk flew down and tried to swoop it up, it missed and flew off, then the squirrel climbed a nearbye tree, squeeked a few times and went on its way. In my head this squirrel was running up telling me "OMG THERES A HUGE BIRD TRYING TO GET ME PROTECT ME PLZ!" and then after the hawk missed him squeaking was a thank you  Hopefully im not crazy 
Bettalover, miss piggy is the same, still in epsom salts, still getting limited meals, her tail and top/bottom/pectoral fins are all red now, body is still pearly white. When i saw you ask i ran over to snap a few pics of her and in the process my batteries died so its charging, ill post them in a bit. Shes beein missing photoshoots lately since shes in a cup and a pain to reach to.


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## Punki

First is the other sbd baby, he/she swims better then day 1, im going to up the dose to 2tsp a gallon tomorrow to finish miss piggy off with, (she isnt going to improve i dont think) and this other baby. (it may help it fix completely.) Not sure if ill go beyond 10 days of epsom with miss piggy or not yet.
Heres the one showing slight impovement








And heres miss piggy
































Sorry some are blurry, she gets so excited when she sees me. She wants to dance and eat


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## vette91

The two are truly beautiful. I hope Miss Piggy shows some improvement and maybe over an extended period of time, the problem can be fixed. As for the other one, i'm glad he/she is showing some improvement


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> I think they will be fine and spunky soon enough! Just have faith in them.
> 
> -BL2033


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## Punki

Thanks. Its still funny that they are so pale and red finned, mommy and daddy wouldnt have lead me to believe that would be how they turned out. Maybe their bodies will color up later, im not sure though, my dark ones bodies colored and then their tails colored last. Turning out prettier then i imagined


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## bettalover2033

(Sorry for the repeated post)


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Thanks. Its still funny that they are so pale and red finned, mommy and daddy wouldnt have lead me to believe that would be how they turned out. Maybe their bodies will color up later, im not sure though, my dark ones bodies colored and then their tails colored last. Turning out prettier then i imagined


See, there are huge ups to this spawn.

-BL2033


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## Punki

True, its up and down but mostly up  Miss piggy is a happy little one regardless of her swimming problem. Im going to keep her most likely. I dread the day i have to jar them and i dread the day even more that i give them to their new owners with instruction and worry how they are feeling


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## bettalover2033

Well at least you will know who to give them to and well it is like having a baby. I know that with such a good owner like yourself, they will be given to owners that will love them and care for them as you did.

-BL2033


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## Sakura8

Punki, no way are you crazy for putting words in animals' mouths. I do the same. XD It's fun, isn't it?  And you're so clever at it, too. Mostly I imagine my cats just mouthing off at me when I don't feed them right away, haha.


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## betta lover1507

congrats on your spawn =DD


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## bettalover2033

Sakura8 said:


> Punki, no way are you crazy for putting words in animals' mouths. I do the same. XD It's fun, isn't it?  And you're so clever at it, too. Mostly I imagine my cats just mouthing off at me when I don't feed them right away, haha.


I find myself doing that a LOT with my animals!


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## Jirothebetta

I also put words in my animals mouths sometimes XD ...sad thing is, at one point in my life small children used to ask me to do this out loud for them ...apparently making animals "say" things is funny XD XD


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## bettalover2033

Jirothebetta said:


> I also put words in my animals mouths sometimes XD ...sad thing is, at one point in my life small children used to ask me to do this out loud for them ...apparently making animals "say" things is funny XD XD



It is funny! My siblings laugh all the time right along with me.

-BL2033


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## Punki

LOL Glad to hear im not alone. I guess we have good imaginations  Tonight ill get some pics of them back in their big 10g. It makes them look so small, but i think they will have a growth spurt having all that space with so few of them  They are on track i think, but more space cant hurt!


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> LOL Glad to hear im not alone. I guess we have good imaginations  Tonight ill get some pics of them back in their big 10g. It makes them look so small, but i think they will have a growth spurt having all that space with so few of them  They are on track i think, but more space cant hurt!



The more the space, the faster they grow. At least that is what i have heard and read.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Sounds about right, and a good time to do it then. Most are around an inch mouth to tail. At least now i dont have to change the 3g 1-2 times a day out of paranoia of growth hormone XD Really starting out in the 10g, they all grew slow, and those dragonfly nymphs at so many before id realized, theyve tripled in size once i got them out of there. I think 10g was hard to maintain with so few babies, in the 3g i could see them all eating and measure accordingly. So i liked having them in it, but now they arent tiny little things.


----------



## Punki

Well the second sbd baby is almost at 100%, barely any swim issues, so a couple more days of epsom to be safe and it should be fine  Miss piggy is still wigglin her little butt all over the place but happy, eating, begging, and i upped her epsom salts, not expecting any miracles or anything though.
Now all the white ones have red fins coming in. Am i really gonig to have two dark colored blue/green and the rest pale with red fins? At this point ill have a ton of miss piggys around xDI like how it looks but im hoping a few lighter colors still get color on their bodies. I still dont understand how in the world they decided to be pale bodied/red finned!


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Well the second sbd baby is almost at 100%, barely any swim issues, so a couple more days of epsom to be safe and it should be fine  Miss piggy is still wigglin her little butt all over the place but happy, eating, begging, and i upped her epsom salts, not expecting any miracles or anything though.
> Now all the white ones have red fins coming in. Am i really gonig to have two dark colored blue/green and the rest pale with red fins? At this point ill have a ton of miss piggys around xDI like how it looks but im hoping a few lighter colors still get color on their bodies. I still dont understand how in the world they decided to be pale bodied/red finned!



Well dont settle for the color that have on them right now, they are all marbles which means they are DEFINITELY going to change on you weather you want them to or not. =).

That is just half the fun. They will all grow to be beautiful little things. I have to say Great Job for caring for them and not giving up on Miss Piggy.

Good luck!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Good to hear Bettalover. I feel like sharky and squito i kinda know how they will look, but all the pearly white pale bodied red finned others would become confusing to tell apart if they kept it up. It is really exciting seeing what colors will appear, so far its not what i expected


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Good to hear Bettalover. I feel like sharky and squito i kinda know how they will look, but all the pearly white pale bodied red finned others would become confusing to tell apart if they kept it up. It is really exciting seeing what colors will appear, so far its not what i expected



And if it really isn't what you expected now then you have something coming to you that will shock you completely.

-BL2033


----------



## Jirothebetta

Actually the light bodies and red fins make sense, Since Old man has a little red in him and red is a dominent color gene...Squito and Sharky rock though! I never would have seen their colors coming XD XD ...and yeah, they are probably gonna all have a little bit of a color change when they all grow up, which is the most exciting part XD XD


----------



## Amphibianite

Hey Punki I got a question, you said your fry were about an inch long, how old are they at that point? I picked up my DTHM he was between 1 and 1.5 inches.


----------



## Punki

They are 43 days old, ive got 5 varying size's but 4 at 1 inch right now.


----------



## Punki

Last night was scary. I was watching them swim around in the big 10g. Id put in a handful of gravel from the established tank id set up for my grandma next door, and the sponge from their 3g, id even put in their 3g tank water but there was some cloudyness. So i quickly grabbed the 3g, put it IN the 10, filled it with conditioned water and scooped them into it. By morning ive got cloudness =/ Ive heard this is just part of the cycle and just change half the water out and it wont hurt a betta but i dont trust it at all. When i got oldman a 3g awhile back, i didnt know anything about the bloom and by morning i had cloudyness and oldman was almost dead, floating, lifeless, and non responsive to even the net. I put him in a cup of good water and by that night he was swimming again but the bloom had affected him so horribly! I thought he was dead =/ So i dont want to risk it. I thought sponge/handful of gravel/tank water would help keep this from happening but its still happening anyways >.< All the babies are okay and back in the 3g, im not sure what i should do now. Maybe the cloudiness will clear faster with the established gravel/sponge but the fact it came at all is making me worry D;


----------



## Punki

After pming ofl and following her instruction, along with grabbing the 2g filter and sponge of electras and runnnig that for a few hours, the tank cleared and readings were perfect so i slowely switched them back in. They are a bit intimidated by the space, they keep finding each other and sticking close. It takes them a bit longer to realize i dropped foods but they all figure it out before its gone. The second sbd baby is doing great, no visible sbd. Miss piggy is still wiggling along


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## Amphibianite

great to hear Punki sounds like they are doing fantastic.


----------



## Punki

Yeah they are just swimming all over. It makes the tank look so so pretty, 7 little red white blue and green sparkles shimmering all around the plants. I wish this part would never end


----------



## Creat

Punki your such a great fish parent


----------



## Punki

Aw thanks Creat  
OFL Suggested i put miss piggy and the second sbd baby back into the tank after qt was over and even though they wiggle different they should be fine as long as they can swim up and down. Im not sure if ill put miss piggy back or not yet. 
My dad suddenly went from loving sharky to liking "the deormed one" lol! Shes got personality!


----------



## Punki

Ive been holding off on pictures since i cant seem to get nice ones. The tank is harder to get good pics from but im just gonna post some that i took anyways. Some are too bright, sorry about that  Now to the picture spam!
First is little miss piggy. I wont be putting her back into the tank, before trying i adjusted her epsom from 2tsp to 1/2 a tsp a gallon overnight and when i woke she was laying on her side at the bottom. Perfectly fine and resting, but its obvious shes going to need epsom or at least her own space and rest spots forever. Im currently setting her up in a 2g with plants, need to pick up more today, after that she will be out of the cup. 








He/she has some pretty deep red on all fins now. Very pretty 
Now onto the rest.
























































































































































































































SHEW -wipes sweat-
So there they are now. Hopefully you can make them out in the distance shots. The 10g really makes them look small lol But its so pretty having them all in there  If you didnt notice, There was no picture of the second sbd baby in a cup, thats because he/she was recovered so i tested her/him in non epsom salted water and he/she did fine so now its back in the tank with its siblings


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## Jirothebetta

XD I love the little pearly white ones, they are soooo cute :-D and sharky's starting to look so grown up XD Oh, and YAY for little sbd baby getting to go back in the tank with the others, and I'm sure Piggy is going to love her new tank ;-)


----------



## Punki

Sharky catches everyones eye when they look into the tank for sure  (he also loves to swim up and strut/dance along the glass, as you see in some pics XD) One of my whites has a green tint to it, Electra looks green with flash so im thinking itll have her looks. But yeah im pretty fond of them all. I swear when i give them away im gonig to have a freaking BOOK printed out for people on how to care for them, their previous care, their birthdate, interesting facts, background stories, and a disease sheet with treatment XD Good thing im gonig to be near the owners, i can keep tabs >=] Cant wait to see more of yours Jiro, your doing awesome


----------



## Punki

Just for a cute comparison, this is squito a month ago.








And now








Heres sharky a month ago (his face was sorta "sharklike")








and now








Miss piggy a month ago








and now








I know im repeating the past and the latest pics, but ive always recognized and been able to seperate these three and when i came upon my old pics i was shocked at the difference a month made. Interesting isnt it


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## Amphibianite

wow they have grown so much and look so wonderful.


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## bettalover2033

@Punki: Who is the Deformed one?

- BL2033


----------



## Punki

Miss piggy is the derormed one lol. She just has permanent swim bladder problems but she will live a happy life regardless as long as shes in epsom longterm with rest spots near the top. She wiggles around and can attack her food and come up for air without too much trouble. 
What happened im thinking is that about a month ago when i first moved them out of the 10g she was double the size of the others, and when i would feed them she would chase the others away or just shove them over to get their food, at the time i gave her the name miss piggy since she had such a good appetite. Id make little jokes about her piggyness but i was very proud of her for being so strong. From pictures of other peoples fry, her stomach was very round but nothing drastically more then pictures id sometimes seen so i didnt think into it. But her overeating was a problem and her stomach being full all the time i belive put pressure on her swim bladder as it was growing into place and it grew wrong. She could technically grow out of it but im doubting it. She was on 1tsp of epsom salts for a week with no improvement, then 2tsp a gallon for a week with no improvement. But removing the epsom caused her to fall back into laying down at the bottom when she rested so there's no improvement though shes still growing. Her personality is extremely friendly, she wiggle dance begs for food and comes to the surface to say hi when i open her clearwrap. Being alone so soon has made her more sociable. When she first showed signs i let it alone knowing they can grow out of it but i found her wedged in a tight spot with the siblings nipping at her so i removed her to start treatments. 
Thats Miss piggys story


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Miss piggy is the derormed one lol. She just has permanent swim bladder problems but she will live a happy life regardless as long as shes in epsom longterm with rest spots near the top. She wiggles around and can attack her food and come up for air without too much trouble.
> What happened im thinking is that about a month ago when i first moved them out of the 10g she was double the size of the others, and when i would feed them she would chase the others away or just shove them over to get their food, at the time i gave her the name miss piggy since she had such a good appetite. Id make little jokes about her piggyness but i was very proud of her for being so strong. From pictures of other peoples fry, her stomach was very round but nothing drastically more then pictures id sometimes seen so i didnt think into it. But her overeating was a problem and her stomach being full all the time i belive put pressure on her swim bladder as it was growing into place and it grew wrong. She could technically grow out of it but im doubting it. She was on 1tsp of epsom salts for a week with no improvement, then 2tsp a gallon for a week with no improvement. But removing the epsom caused her to fall back into laying down at the bottom when she rested so there's no improvement though shes still growing. Her personality is extremely friendly, she wiggle dance begs for food and comes to the surface to say hi when i open her clearwrap. Being alone so soon has made her more sociable. When she first showed signs i let it alone knowing they can grow out of it but i found her wedged in a tight spot with the siblings nipping at her so i removed her to start treatments.
> Thats Miss piggys story



Aw. Poor Miss Piggy! At least she is with someone that understands her and loves here the way she needs to be loved.

Are you ever going to sell or give her away?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

I doubt it. My dad kind of wants her, and hes walking distance so if i run out of space i will just give her to him and walk over to do her water changes and cleanings. I dont know anyone else in my area who i know could give her the proper care. Giving someone instructions on water conditioning and diet and tank size is one thing but once i start adding special rest spots, lowered water levels, and epsom salt measurements it becomes too much. Plus i kinda love her XD
I dont plan to sell any of them, Giving them away really. The only other people i can trust are on here but shipping is so scary  If only people live closer


----------



## Amphibianite

Where do you live Punki? XD
I am glad your fry have such a loving home ^_^


----------



## Punki

Im down in FL. Far too far from Oregon XD I wish we were closer!
Yeah they are loved, to the point that parting with any of them is going to have me stalking new owners lol


----------



## Amphibianite

Haha yeah I figured that. I think I am the only oregonian breeder here XD.
Haha yeah I will be stalking my friends who will be receiving fish XD aka my eventual fry XD


----------



## Punki

We will be lugging around gallons of conditioned water in our cars when we visit JUST IN CASE XD


----------



## Amphibianite

XD wwwwweeelllll I don't need water conditioner  I am on private ground well water  Even OFL says I don't need conditioner haha


----------



## Punki

Oh nice  I use a mix of well/spring water and stil condition out of paranoia mostly ) Alright, youll just be dragging your hose around  lol what an image


----------



## Amphibianite

XD yeah a big image because all my friends live about an hour from me XD


----------



## Punki

lol  Most of mine will be 5-30 minutes from me at least. thank goodness. But i think if i have 3 or more girls i may just keep a sorority. People tned to like males more anyways and girls are so spunky


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## Amphibianite

Yeah I am working on getting a sorority together, but that come after I breed. @[email protected] I am looking at a 8/9 girl sorority in my 20. My first girl will hopefully be the one I breed my CT boy with.


----------



## Punki

Ive got a spare 20g and 10g so i can make it work, but my husband may not like the idea. Once i set it up though he always says he is glad i did it. lol XD
Good luck with the breeding


----------



## Amphibianite

Haha yeah have a spair 5 until i make it the split tank for two of my boys XD I bet you can guess which ones by my sig XD. 
I also have a two spare 15s, 1 spare 20, 1 spare 25 tall 
So i have more than enough for a sorority and breeding 

Thanks I can not wait to start ^_^


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## Sakura8

Punki, those pics are amazing! What do you mean you couldn't get any good pics? Those are awesome! The little fry look like . . . like real bettas.  Sharky and Squito are so stunning, the red in their fins is amazing. And Miss Piggy is looking lovelier/handsomer with every new pic. I'm glad to hear the cloudy water didn't do any harm (hurray for OFL) and I bet Miss Piggy will adore her new tank. You've done such an amazing job. I know I say that a lot but really, I mean it. :-D I'm impressed by anyone who can breed bettas. This goes for you, too, Jiro!


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## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> I doubt it. My dad kind of wants her, and hes walking distance so if i run out of space i will just give her to him and walk over to do her water changes and cleanings. I dont know anyone else in my area who i know could give her the proper care. Giving someone instructions on water conditioning and diet and tank size is one thing but once i start adding special rest spots, lowered water levels, and epsom salt measurements it becomes too much. Plus i kinda love her XD
> I dont plan to sell any of them, Giving them away really. The only other people i can trust are on here but shipping is so scary  If only people live closer



That is great to hear! I think she needs to be (At Home)....

-BL2033


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## Jirothebetta

XD Thanks guys ...You know Punki, you really are a little hard on yourself with those photos, They're AWESOME XD XD XD


----------



## Punki

lol Thanks, Believe me i took and deleted much much more just to get those. In the 3g i could get good shots really easily, and in the 3g i could see the details of their tailfins, not so much in the 10g so i kept thinking down about them but im glad you all liked them  Since putting them in the 10g theyve all growth spurted o.o I guess a big fresh 100% new water 10g for only 8 little ones gave them lots of room. Every morning when i walk by they swim up to the top and wiggle. They all have caught onto how things work )


----------



## Sakura8

I love bettas because they recognize you, even the babies.  I don't think I'll ever stop keeping them. I'll be 80 yrs old and surrounded by tanks full of bettas all wiggle dancing at me.


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## Jirothebetta

...um...I thought I edited this one -_- ...SORRY for the double post XD


----------



## Jirothebetta

sakura8 said:


> i'll be 80 yrs old and surrounded by tanks full of bettas all wiggle dancing at me.


xD xD XD


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Somehow when I reread what I wrote, I got a very strange mental image of an old lady surrounded by chippendale dancers with betta fins. :shock: Now I need to go scrub my brain.


----------



## Punki

Your time away has polluted your brain Sakura LOL! Thats a freaky image! Glad to have you back though =)


----------



## Punki

Oldman has been lazy these days, sleeping all day and night, even lots of m. larvae werent giving him energy, even new deco wasnt giving him energy so i put electras tank next to his for 10 minutes and he built a bubblenest the size of a quarter and wiggled all over. I think ill keep her there, and keep a paper between them but give him/her a glimpse a couple times a day. Shes still plump and barred though, i think she loves oldman as much as he loves her. They always seem compatible when they see each other. She always immediately bars and wiggles, and he wiggles back and builds a quick nest. Theyd breed so easy i think  I let him see Coraline when i had her, and his reaction wasnt nearly as good. Electras his type


----------



## Sakura8

Punki said:


> Your time away has polluted your brain Sakura LOL! Thats a freaky image! Glad to have you back though =)


I know, it has, hasn't it?  I need to stay on the forum to keep myself insanely sane. 

I'm glad Electra loves Old Man just as much. Grumpy as he is, he seems like a sensitive guy at heart so I'm glad she pays attention to him. Their fry are so gorgeous, it's a match made in betta heaven.


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## Punki

Its funny though, when he swims up all flared and pretty she will flare back, and he spazzes out and goes and hides behind his plant and works on his bubblenest everytime. If shes not paying attention to him swimming up to flare and showoff he starts biting on his tank wall, so angry she didnt notice XD Hes so lethargic in his age. But i know hes not sick because he eats/swims/looks great and is taken care of like a king. Its just his age i guess. Seeing him get excited is good for him 
Miss piggy seems a bit upbeat today, she isnt working as hard as usual to swim right. Itd be so neat if the epsom longterm helped keep the pressure off her swim bladder and it fixed itself. Though im still keeping her either ways


----------



## Sakura8

It's so funny picturing him biting the tank wall. "Hey, girl, I'm over here. Come on, don't you think I'm hot stuff? Don't you? Hey, I'm talking to you!"


----------



## Amphibianite

XD so funny, Old Man must have a huge personality. Just going Oy oy oy look here lookie here. See me I said do you see me. LOOK AT ME!


----------



## Punki

Amph thats basically how he is XD He MUST have all eyes on him, especially Electras or else hes going to gobble glass in anger XD
I was taking pics today and i THINK i may see an eggspot on Squito, ill post the pictures in question first just to get your opinions. Is this too early to have, am i seeing things, or is Squito a little miss 
















See it?








alittle white dot, not as good of an angle but still








I swear i see it! Let me know what you all think!
lol  Now some pics of the rest today 
































Pretty neat moment of crossing


----------



## Sakura8

Punki, I saw it too. It definitely did look like an eggspot. But I know juvenile males can get them sometimes too. Hmmm. It might be a little soon to know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if Squito did turn out to be a Squiterina.

I love the crown/comb tails on them. They're very pretty and very well-defined.


----------



## Punki

Yes i love the little double spike tips 
I was just reading on how sometimes the males have eggspots. Ive started thinking Squito was a female because his growth slowed and his colors stayed the same, where sharky just keeps growing and lighting up. Oh little squitos came a long way from the bucket outside to now XD Sharkys too pretty though. I cant give him away o.o


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## Sakura8

Didn't your dad want Sharky though? XD Are you really going to be able to give any of your babies up? ;-)


----------



## Jirothebetta

XD you have the same bridge ornament I have XD XD


----------



## Punki

lol He wanted "the purple one" which was sharky at first, but now sharky is greenish and squito is blue/purple so now he checks out squito thinking its sharky. But he also likes miss piggy. Sharkys just too pretty and his double spiked ct tips are coming in so well. Im not sure what ill do, i just know i got a 10g, a 20g, 2 3g's, and a 2g XD
lol Jiro, i dont mind supporting my petco, they take great care of their fishies


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## Sakura8

*does mental math* You could feasibly keep all of them, with that many tanks.  And I'm so not helping am I? ;-) Well, both Squito and Sharky are awesome looking fish so I can see why your dad would want one of them. And Miss Piggy is so adorable and she's already developing so much personality. Hmm.


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## Punki

If i keep miss piggy, ill have to buy a heater for a smaller tank, cause my house is cold in the winter. Otherwise, i could split a 20g up in quite a few ways >.>
Or theres the sorority option for the 20g -drools- or if theres not many females i could divide 1/4th of the 20g for a couple males and sorority the other side, or or or...-passes out-
I know i want my dad to have one, miss piggy touches his heart, squito/sharky makes him oooh and ahhhh, and and the rest of the white ones make him giggle with their begs. Ive kinda just been attached to squito/sharky/miss piggy from 2w on, before they really had color, and theyve turned out the sweetest xD


----------



## Punki

While changing out miss piggys epsom water this morning and giving her some M. larvae and attention i noticed shes swimming better  Still has her issues but seeing improvement was exciting!


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## Amphibianite

great to hear Punki


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## Punki

Yeah, it would be a nice shock if she grew out of it. Shes so pretty, her tail fin spread is wide, the length makes me think she is probably a he and her vibrant red fins and pearly body just makes her amazing to me. I am gonig to move her to her own little tank tonight and get some pictures. Ive been setting it up the past couple days. Hard to get good pics of her in a cup. Shes so friendly 
If she is indeed a he the name will just be a switch to Mr. Piggy lol!


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## Amphibianite

Haha well if she is a He, it doesn't matter because IT will be loved no matter what


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## bettalover2033

I agree!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Yep Miss piggy swims almost 100% normal today. I was setting her up a tank but now she probobly wont need a special tank. Later this evening im going to lower the amount of epsom salts and she how she swims. If she is growing out of this she can go back with her siblings instead for alittle while. I just got to be sure shes 100% first.


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## Punki

Look who it is!








Its miss piggy! (theres a eggspot on her >.>)
and where is miss piggy?








In the tank!








Shes loving it and swimming perfectly!
The flash made her look albino, but shes adorable, shes swimming so happily  Exploring~








Im so glad i didnt give up on her, i expected her to always be an odd swimmer but it took her 3 weeks to grow out of it  
Also, Sharky and Squito both have eggy spots now, along with miss piggy. They still could be males but i dunno XD








Sharky today


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## Sakura8

*does happy dance* Yay for Miss Piggy! I'm so happy for her, and for you too, Punki! And doesn't she look like Coraline? And I'm loving the red that Sharky is starting to show. How funny that the three who colored up first might be females.


----------



## Punki

Quite funny that its looking that way! Yes she does look like coraline. Even has the red cheeks starting to show  Miss piggy is getting along great with her siblings. The largest baby i have has no name yet ( 75% sure its male)but also has no eggspot and came up to her and pecked her immediately and she swimmed away and since then shes known whos boss XD Amazing how she swam so badly, and then over the course of 2 days she straightened out. The first thing she did was swim against the glass "Where am i?" then started trying to eat lol =x Hopefully thats the end of her issues now  Shes no longer the largest so she cant bully either 
Squito has oldmans colors totally!
Sharky...How odd to be so pretty and a possible girl. Everything i read said that usually the first month the males tend to be bigger, and the second month, the females catch up, but theres really no telling.


----------



## Punki

Miss piggy is still doing well with her siblings in the big tank. I feel like shes had a miracle or something  Happy seeing her exploring instead of staring longingly at her siblings. They are 2 1/2 months old now. Time sure has flown!


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow! That is really cool! "I TOLD YA SO". See i knew she was going to get better! I told you to have faith and i guess you did so she is fine. Just give her a couple of days! And SHE is really a SHE so that is even better!

Great job with her! You should give the fighter a treat for being so strong!

-BL2033


----------



## Amphibianite

WOOOHOOO excitement all around ^_^. So I got a bunch of breeders now haha. Come check out my spawn log thread http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=80031 I would appreciate any helpful hints you can give ^_^.


----------



## Punki

I always had hope shed get better, but i was preparing for her not getting better, just as i finished up a special low lvl 2g with lots of surface leaves to sit on she decided to change her mind. Theres still a slight chance she is a he, males can show eggspots early on as well, but im thinking she is


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> I always had hope shed get better, but i was preparing for her not getting better, just as i finished up a special low lvl 2g with lots of surface leaves to sit on she decided to change her mind. Theres still a slight chance she is a he, males can show eggspots early on as well, but im thinking she is


That's true, but i agree. I think she is a she. How old are they today?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

they are 51 days old, for some reason i though they were 2 1/2 months old, but they are actually 1 3/4 months old XD Wow, still young to show their stuff! Thanks for asking, otherwise id have not re-calculated XD they hatched on july 17th


----------



## Sakura8

It seems like such a long time ago and yet such a short time. They've come so far from the little tails with eyeballs that I remember.


----------



## Punki

lol Yep, this was like 4 days after hatching, a joke id made








I wonder if either of those two are one of my current XD They were so tiny


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: I remember that post! I laughed so hard. Are you doing a baby book for these guys? You seriously should.


----------



## Punki

I plan to do that and a gif video of growth to adulthood  Thats kinda why sometimes you see alot of up close side views, i take pics daily, dont always post every single one but once they are grown ill post the video of day by day. Its kinda like those people who take a picture of themselves everyday for years then play them really fast and you can watch them age, but with a fish


----------



## Sakura8

Wow, I can't wait to see that.  You really take a lot of great pics, I don't know how you manage it. I just tried to take pics of my platy fry and I got blurs and blobs.


----------



## Punki

Youve seen my little ammonia alert thing suctioned to my tank wall right? Well i half hold my button down till it zooms on that clearly, then i hold it halfway down and find a fish thats around the same distance as i was to the ammonia reader XD Tricky


----------



## Sakura8

You have patience, timing, and talent, Punki. I have none of the above, especially patience, haha.


----------



## Punki

Thanks Sakura. Todays pics 

Miss piggy








Sharky (isnt his green upper lip cute, its very noticable in person XD)








Miss piggy again








Food time, theres a peeper behind the bridge lol








Squito








Look closely and youll see camouflage sharky!








Squito in mid beg dance showing the eggspot

















My largest, most likely male, the king of the tank.


----------



## Sakura8

Wouldn't it be kind of neat if Squito, Sharky, and Miss Piggy were females so you could keep them all and start a sorority? They're getting prettier by the day. And I don't care what people say about VT X CT spawns, I really love the tails on these guys a lot.


----------



## Punki

I plan to do just that sakura, 20g sorority heavily planted, im probably going to try to aquascape the thing and make it beautiful! Ive been looking at some artsy aquascapped aquariums and feel inspried  I got a heater for the 20g also so it should work out amazingly. So yeah im kinda hoping they are girls XD I do also plan to keep one male, havent had any non-eggspot fish really STAND OUT to me just yet, they are all cute, but my top three from the beginning that were always the friendliest would be so nice in a big 20g 
Yeah i saw a few places totally bash down on combtails but also saw an equal amount of people who enjoy the type. I love veiltails and crowntails the most. Granted halfmoons and all of the other types are amazing, i just would worry about tailbiting or something, i dunno, VT and CT seem to just have personality. CT has an edgy look, and VT is just elegant without being too extreme for my eyes. These guys, from what im seeing so far make me imagine a VT with a slightly wider spread and some flowy tips which looks so pretty in my mind  Im happy with how they are turning out so far. Its been unexpected, exciting, and amazing to watch them grow, and im so curious how the white ones will turn out, will they color up their bodies or will i have pearly white bodies, or will i have light blue bodies or or... lol


----------



## Sakura8

I love my halfmoon but honestly, his tail is just too big. I think even HE thinks it's too big. It weighs him down and it always looks kind of raggedy. He hasn't tailbitten yet but I almost want him to just so he can trim his tail down a little. 

I love the variety that combtails offer. Kind of the best of both worlds.  Really, I don't think there is a kind of betta that I don't like. And I'm not interested in the "true to form" bettas. They're beautiful but so are the supposedly less than quality ones. But that's just me. ^_^


----------



## Punki

Thats it, i think thats why halfmoons et my pity, and fear, i think they are so so pretty, but when i watch them swim i cant help but notice they have to try alittle harder then my oldman or electra, im used to watching them zoom, but the hm intimidates me a bit i think, all the possible tailbiting which could lead to possible fin rot, i dunno, scary, i guess i just like the simplicity  Oldmans tail is like...twice as long as it used to be when i got him and even looking back at that difference makes me go "O.O" Really, i just love a happy, friendly personality and a healthy fish. Ive read a couple of people say things along the lines of breeding anything other then the new amazing types when their is tons of petstore bettas suffering is wrong, but from what ive experienced, ive got ppl waiting, choosing to wait for one of my fish, instead of supporting those petstores  Ive even had to turn a few ppl down that have recently asked because my fish are...over accounted for, especially if most are girls and i keep them XD The spare boys will go to a few of my closest family that are impatiently waiting XD


----------



## Sakura8

Yeah, there's a huge difference in how my HM swims and how my VTs swim. My HM kind . . . of putts along. 
http://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff456/SakuraNeko8/?action=view&current=MVI_1346.mp4

I'm so glad all your babies will stay close to you. After all your hard work, it's good that you'll be able to visit them and keep tabs on them.


----------



## Amphibianite

I personally love my HMs Thoth is so fun to watch swim, the new guy doesn't seem to have any problems and the girl is so much fun.


----------



## Punki

Amph they definitely are amazingly breathtaking when i see them. I think i may just stare at mine so much that other types or even other species of fish swim "off" to me, itd take some getting used to. I may try one in the future, far away in the future but i guess im just a bit intimidated by them, they seem so fragile though i know they arent XD
I swear goldfish make me LOL so much, im too used to watching mine for sure lol


----------



## Punki

Aw sakura he does sputter along, i guess its sort of like how some get used to a slight current and strengthen their bodies to get around it, HM's must get some really strong muscles to carry their huge tails along. Hes beautiful though!


----------



## Sakura8

It's hard to take my HM seriously when he swims like that. I end up laughing at him because he has such a serious expression as he swims along like that. XD 

I can't wait to see your male fry (if you have any) when their tails really start growing.


----------



## Punki

Id love to get a marble or something similar to electras blotchy colored scales on one 
I wonder... If i bred her to one of her male babies how theyd look, CT and her colors? lol i dont even know XD I couldnt manage it cause by next summer shed be older and i wouldnt wanna put her through it, but curiosity sake XD


----------



## Amphibianite

ChealseK is selling blue marble fry go to the classified section. I have a hold on some for later


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> they are 51 days old, for some reason i though they were 2 1/2 months old, but they are actually 1 3/4 months old XD Wow, still young to show their stuff! Thanks for asking, otherwise id have not re-calculated XD they hatched on july 17th


Well that is great! Where did the time go?? I mean i know that they have a long way to go but wow 51 days old.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Its flown  When i wake the first thing i do is turn on their light, then prepare some breakfast for them and watch them eat, checking them all out, then i start my own day lol. Such a habit now. At least ill keep some so i can keep doing it XD


----------



## Punki

Just a few new pics of my little ones


----------



## Sakura8

It's so interesting how many of little ones turned out to be pale with reddish fins. They're so sparkly and iridescent and so darn cute!


----------



## Punki

Miss piggy is the prettiest white girl of the bunch. Those red fins are so deep red. Shes in the 3rd pic from the bottom. The rest may catch up and look like her later. I noticed one has some light blue coming in on his body but yep its quite interesting. I was told it was Electras genes that did it. I really figured oldmans dominant VT blue/red would be 95% of them but she ended up taking over XD


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Sounds like Electra all right. She's a feisty, active and independent girl. She's probably like, "What? HIS genes were supposed to be dominant? Oh, my bad."


----------



## Creat

Lol your man is hiding some genes XD scandalous


----------



## Punki

Well sharkys spread is officially wider then oldmans, its electras spread, and also has her double points at the tips. So now, along with squito, sharky and miss piggy having eggspots (maybe temporary but prob not) two more have eggspots now, so theres 5 eggspot babies and 4 non eggspot babies. At this rate i will have 5 female sorority, im hoping the other 4 are males but im not sure at all


----------



## Sakura8

I'm glad Sharky, Squito, and Miss Piggy are most likely going to be girls because that means you can keep all of them.  Yay!


----------



## Jirothebetta

I wouldn't lean to heavily on the whole egg spot thing, even Jiro still has his O.O


----------



## Punki

No Jiro dont crash my hopes and dreams of a 20g heaven LOL XDD lol From what i read, it isnt too common, but males do sometimes have them awhile.


----------



## Jirothebetta

XD It would be awesome if they all turned out to be females, I don't think anything would be better than a sibling sorority, all those beautiful fish living together in perfect harmony, or at least as perfect as you can get in the betta world XD XD XD 

...If you think about it though, an older male usually does mean more females...so there is a good chance that you're raising up a decent sorority in there ;-) I still say Miss piggy and sharky are boys though XD XD XD ;-)


----------



## Punki

lol Deep down i feel the same, when i look at their tails starting to slightly outgrow the rest, but then i stare hard at the eggspots and calm myself down LOL. AH Sharky and miss piggy and squito. Squito is a female i feel, but i only planned to keep 1 male from the spawn and if i have to choose between sharky and miss piggy, im going to be trying to figure out some extra space. My dad does want miss piggy though so maybe ill keep sharky in that case and just visit miss piggy often. I sort of thought id be attached but when it was time to give them away id be able, because thats what so many people have to do, but nope, i grow more attached by the day and nothing would make me happier then to have all females in a 20g LOL.


----------



## Jirothebetta

XD I know what you mean about getting attached, the older mine get the more and more attached I become. Its got to the point where I can tell most of them apart, even their little personalities and such. Its hard not to feel like their your own little babies... <.<>.> Secretly I keep raising the number I plan to keep, thinking of new places in the house where a tank could fit, of course I know I'm not going to be able to keep them all, but that can't keep me from dreaming  ;-):love2:


----------



## Punki

I saw my first flare tonight! So cute and small LOL I hope i can get a picture of it later. My cameras charging. Its just tiny transparent poof cheeks and no beard XD


----------



## Myates

Oh wow.. I was reading regularly for a while, but lately I haven't. (I'm sorry!) 
But OMG they are getting so big and beautiful now! They were such tiny pink little things the last I saw. And Squito, I "squee'd!" when I saw her pic and that she was still around! Great job on raising them, you've got some great fish there!


----------



## Punki

Thanks Myates. Yeah the thread is pretty long now, i update quite a bit and chat XD Squito, lol starting out in a bucket, second guessing if she was a fry or a minnow. Shes got quite the story


----------



## Sakura8

Who flared, Punki? Is it one of the babies we know? So cute, I can only imagine how adorable that must have been. :-D


----------



## Punki

It was the one im thinking is the male, its largest, and was the one who nipped miss piggy as soon as i put her in her first day back.
This one on the left.








Im almost positive its male, and will be removed at some point. For now its only flare and look at siblings when they come near his beloved ammonia meter suction.


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Why do they all love the ammonia meter so much? That's so funny. He has a funny expression, he's cute.


----------



## Punki

It was just after they all swam to the corner when i walked up, then they realized it wasnt food time, it was picture time so they started swimming off. I meant to get a side shot of him but he suddenly turned (thats why its slightly blurry) to give me one last sad hungry fish look. Ive been watching him closer tonight. Around feeding time he gets really possesive of the area of the ammonia meter, and flares and nips any others that come near, during/after feeding hes much calmer though. Ill end up removing him soon i think, i thought he didnt have a beard but theres a tiny red one that pops out alittle under his chin, and the flare isnt perfected yet so its kinda half flare wiggle deathstare LOL! He gets his point across but some..mostly squito just doesnt care. She rubs on the ammonia meter lovingly despite his best flaring efforts. 
Im not quite sure why they love that thing so much but they always stare at it like its amazing XD They are very health conscious fish.


----------



## Sakura8

You caught his little face perfectly, even his cute brown eyes. And I laughed at the health conscious part. XD So cute! I love these little stories about them. They're so fun to read.


----------



## Punki

Today, out of curiosity i decided to offer them their first non-live meal. I soaked 5 pellets in water for a minute, then put them in, and they were grabbed and nommed! Its good to know that they are starting to eat dry foods, just for the future  Heres a few pics.
Miss piggys starting to get some red dots on her...arms? i forgot the fin name XD








The male who now flares (still need to catch it on film)








Miss piggy and the male together.
















Sharky!








Rubbing against each other, the top one has a few small spots starting to come in right below his top fin.


----------



## diablo13

Great pics, Punki! All bow down in honor of the almighty Ammonia Meter @[email protected]


----------



## Sakura8

I love Miss Piggy's pink cheeks.  She really looks like Miss Piggy. I can hear her, "Moi?" (GIANT Muppets fan here!)

Sharky's looking so good, so iridescent. Honestly, I love looking at these pics so much.


----------



## Punki

Thanks Diablo and Sakura! I really get excited when i manage to get a nice closeup or a pose showing personality, and when they swim against each other playfully and i catch the shot, i squeal alittle inside. I sort of thought that bettas were so social because they only have us and dont like each other, and that fry had each other so it would be like schooling fish till they were seperated, you know, kindof ignoring humans, but i was wrong, they all have their personalities, interactions with each other and they love showing off for me as well


----------



## dramaqueen

They're adorable!!!!


----------



## Punki

Thanks DramaQueen, they are quite adorable


----------



## Punki

They are having another growth spurt, at least i think so 
"Do you have food?"








waiting for a food drop








Isnt sharkys tail spread/colors just beautiful? I think so 








The one in the center is the "male" hes getting quite large. 








and has some nice light blue/green shimmer coming onto him








Rosy cheeked miss piggy being cute


----------



## Amphibianite

AAAAAWWWWWW so cute


----------



## Sakura8

That last pic of Miss Piggy is adorable. She looks so girly in that pic, I'd be really disappointed if she turned out male after this.  They're all coming along so well.


----------



## Punki

! Miss piggy better be a girl, with that name, then showing her eggspot, and then getting rosy cheeks like that, shes totally a girl, or a VERY feminine male =x No agression at all from her though, and when picked at she just swims away, she doesnt stand up for herself or anything like some of the others do so its looking good


----------



## Sakura8

That's so interesting, because wasn't she originally a bully when it came to food? And now she's totally passive.


----------



## Punki

Yeah she used to be, after her 3 weeks of epsom and seperation she lost her spot as leader XD She also doesnt eat as much as she used to.


----------



## Sakura8

That's good. She's learning to keep a ladylike figure, I guess. Well, she's absolutely adorable with those pink cheeks of hers.


----------



## iloveengl

They are so cute, and so pretty.  Thanks so much for sharing your progress and pics with us!


----------



## Indyfishy

I just wanted to say that your fry are the absolute cutest I have ever seen =)


----------



## Punki

Ty ilove and indy from the fishies =) They do their best to be adorable XD Adorable=food! lol


----------



## Punki

Well, tonight/tomorrow my first little one will be removed. Hes getting too aggressive and the others tend to hide from him. My dad/a friend of my husband both want one asap but im unsure of when its best to start giving them away. I have two definate males terrorizing each other/the rest. One moreso then the other, but the other doesnt back down so technically i have 2 to be jarred. Ive got 1/2 gallon jars for them to be in, im just making sure to get the temps just right, and they all accept dry foods. They are 2m 1 week old, is that too soon to give them to new owners? My husbands friend is asking lots of great questions about water, filter plants ect so im going to write up an instruction info page for her also.


----------



## Amphibianite

I am seeing them at petsmart at about 8-9 weeks old now @[email protected] I mean the ones I am seeing are less than an inch including tail @[email protected]


----------



## caitic10

Ya, Amphibiante is right. I once saw a little female just a little bigger than your fry.

I guess it dempends on you as a breeder.


----------



## Sakura8

I bought a little girl at Petco a month ago who was only slightly bigger than a neon tetra. Sadly, she got sick and passed. I definitely think subjecting them to the stress of shipping at this age is too much for them but then, those breeders who supply to chain pet stores don't really care about that sort of thing anyway, do they? All the littlest bettas look so scared and clamped at the pet stores.


----------



## Punki

Aw. Well i dont want anything to happen to them and im not shipping, just slowely "moving" one from my house to dads, the friend of my husbands is going to wait longer to get a better idea on colors. She wanted my sharky or squito and i said no XD


----------



## Sakura8

Haha, I bet they all want Sharky or Squito because they're so unusually colored.


----------



## Punki

LOL YEP. They said "what about the green blue one?"
"thats sharky"
"i want him" "nah im keeping him"
"I saw a blue one"
"thats squito, a female, and im putting her with her sisters in a 20g, pick from one of my 7 white bodied/red tailed ones that all look almost the same...wait except miss piggy" LOLOLOL
Actually the white bodied, red finned ones are shimmering a very light baby blue so i think they will look like electra at some point, which is really exciting. Shes beautiful, and a male version of her would be WOW. Squito is most similar to oldman, so i guess im going to have a girly version of oldman to keep after hes gone )


----------



## Punki

My poor oldman. Stupid me left the fish food *where i thought* was up high. But my daughter climbed up, got it, and threw a handful of pellets into his tank. I was doing the dishes and noticed the unusual quiet and saw him picking at the bottom and grabbed a baster but i was too late, he looked fat. Now...hes more fat, so fat his belly looks stretched, miscolored and alittle pineconed. Hes resting at the bottom, lethargic. Sakura, should i just let him rest and hope he passes it or should i rush him into some epsom salts? >.<


----------



## Creat

I would raise the temp a little and add some epsom salts poor guy they never know when to stop eating... well then neither do I really XD


----------



## Punki

I changed out his water and put 1tsp in just to be safe, he laid at the bottom colorless for awhile so i put electra near his tank and suddenly he pooped and turned a deep blue purple. I guess he will survive. I was so upset with worry over him!


----------



## Sakura8

Punki, phew! Good thinking showing him Electra! Lots of activity always gets their system going. I'd keep him in epsom salts for at least another two days and fast him for that long too.


----------



## Punki

Ill be sure to do that. Hes a bit lazy at times but as soon as electra notices him he perks up and wiggles around. Still bloated but less, his stomach isnt pineconed anymore. At first he ate, then laid at the bottom, kindof jerking his head and opening his mouth often, i was so scared =[ Since the flare poo hes just a bit lazy, i think ill leave electra in his sights overnight so he will move around and work on a nest or something, anything to keep him from just laying there. The pellets are really small, about the size of this comma , but eating i *think* 20-30 made a huge belly. Usually he gets 3 in the morning and 3 at night at most. Right now electras watching him as he nests. I dont think those two will ever feel uncompatable, everytime they see each other they go into breed mode. Thanks for the responses creat and sakura!


----------



## Punki

Picture time! First its interesting that Electra is turning a greenish color at times. In RL shes blue, but shimmers a green color. Heres a couple of pictures of her. Shes mommy 
















Its quite cute 
Next is my jarred guy just hanging out, looking for a food drop.
























Hes going to be really pretty i think. Hes very cute now that hes not terrorizing the others =P
Next is miss piggy stealing my shot of the one on the right eating XD








and hanging with her siblings








Her and sharky 








Squito and sharky were so cute together and then they decided they were done DOH!








Later i got a quick shot of squito 








But sharky still just kept looking for food, while the fat one behind him jiggles and wiggles 








Then i got a better shot of the one eating from earlier (miss piggy stole the pic XD)








This ones just tired of the pictures








and a little group shot attempt


----------



## fightergirl2710

Ah finally! I'm done lol! I love all these guys so much! Sharky has an awesome mask and Ms. Piggy's blush is just adorable! I can't wait for my babies to have babies lol! Thank you so much for sharing all of your experiences so thoroughly! People can learn a lot from this thread (me included) I'm totally following your updates


----------



## Punki

Thanks fighter! Im shocked you made it all the way through! lol 
Im having a hard time deciding which ones i will keep, its so hard to think of saying goodbye to any of them at ALL, even when they will just be a walk away in most cases. Im so excited to see how their fins grow and what colors they end up being. 
So does anyone remember when i said my dad dropped off a 20g tank? Well i finally pulled it out and its not 20g its 30g o.o
SO! I want to keep my girls, i have a 10g and a 30g, (random 3-5 gallons but no heaters for them, just for the big tanks) ive got my mesh and aquarium silicone ready but the question is, do i move the babies to the 30g and remove the boys as needed, keeping 1 to divide 3 ways in a 10g and leave however many girls in the 30g for life? The 10g will have oldman, electra, and a baby, so that means i can keep only one male from the spawn and i know i want to keep sharky if hes male, but id also like to keep a lighter colored boy also, but dont have the room in a 10g to do that. THEN i thought of keeping the babies where they are, in the 10g, removing boys as needed and having the sorority in the 10g, and dividing the 30g into 4-5 spaces, then i could keep 2 males, oldman, and electra in that, and sorority my girls in 10g. I guess it depends on how many girls i end up with if the 10g will work, i have 9 babies total, id think 3-4 girls in 10g would work if its heavily planted but im not sure. I laid in bed last night thinking about this for ages so if anyone has any input id love it


----------



## fightergirl2710

Lol! I thought I was the only nut who has sleepless nights thinking about fish! 
How long is the 30? How much of the length would each betta get? A ten sorority sounds good but then what if you want to add more girls, 30 is a better option for that.. But then I really want you to keep a light bodied male, I've always seen female light bodies and I want to see how a male would look! Lol! And Sharky too (I really dig his mask ) so I would go with dividing the 30... I confused myself. >:


----------



## diablo13

I would give you an answer, but that post just seriously confused me 0.0


----------



## Punki

lol sorry XD Hm.. Maybe i can word it better...
I have a 30g and a 10g.
If i divide the 10g i can divide it 3 ways and keep only one of my male fry. But keep all my females in 30g

if i divide the 30g (its long) i can keep 2-3 male fry but then the females would be in the 10g. 
Im lost on which to divide up, because id like to keep 2 males but that only leaves the option of dividing the 30g and leaving the females in the 10g. Theyd be sisters, never separated, and the tank would be heavily planted but im still hesitant as to if itd be okay. Im really wanting to start setting up tanks though so i have to decide. 
Fighter the 30g is about 4 1/2 feet long so with 4 bettas theyd each have about a foot width and front to back would be about 2 feet. Theyd roughly get 7 gallons each.


----------



## Sakura8

If you only have 3-5 girls, keep the sorority in the 10g with lotsa plants and divide the 30g. That's my advice. I have a 6 girl sorority in my 10g and the girls in there didn't even have the benefit of starting out as sisters but they get along fine now. I think your girls will be okay in the 10g. But as for when to move them around, I'm not sure. 

By the way, that's one of the cutest photo bombs yet. :-D They are beyond words adorable and I love how I can always pick out Miss Piggy because of her rosy cheeks.


----------



## Punki

Thanks sakura  I guess ill just hold back and see how many females i have, if i have more then 4-5 ill put them in the 30, divide up the 10 and suck it up and buy a heater for the 3g small tank i have, just to keep them all. I was trying to avoid buying a third heater XD
They are getting so much easier to get pics of


----------



## Sakura8

At what age do you think you'll be able to tell if they're male or female?

And how is Old Man doing?


----------



## Punki

Anytime between now and in a month, im still waiting, i guess an expert may be able to tell, but i cant say 100% for sure. Sharky has a eggspot but also very thick longish fins, so he contradicts himself and i just dont know  I hear the sure way is once you jar an aggresive one and they bubblenest then its male. So far my jarred aggressive one hasnt nested though so i dont know XD The only one i am really sure of is squito. The duller coloring, the smaller fins, shirter tail, and eggspot all lead be to believe shes a girl. Shes the only one who has stress stripes everytime i feed them so she just seems like a she also  I wish i had an expert that could just look in and tell me how many girls i got XD


----------



## Sakura8

Has OFL taken a look at the pics? She might be able to tell. That's funny Squito gets stress stripes at meal time. One of my other girls does too.


----------



## Punki

Shes seen the pics and told me how to tell but i simply cannot do it lol XD
Yeah squito is like "Oh its food, im so...excited...omg shrimp! How will i ever eat all of these, look at all these pigs, i better eat faster, oh no i missed one **STRESSSSSSS*" lolol!


----------



## Sakura8

Squito is soo cute! My girl is more like, "Aaaah, it's feeding time and all my sorority sisters are swimming on top of me! Aaaah, they're pushing me to the bottom of the tank! Aaah, someone just jumped on my head! Aaaah!" 

And Electra's color change is very interesting. She's still absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## Punki

Im not quite sure how old electra was when i got her. I just know oldman looks massive beside her. Maybe its just her aging process, but the green tint kindof explains sharky alittle. When i look in my tank i find it hard to grasp that these fish are all from the same parents lol! I forgot to update you on oldman. I fasted him...till tonight, while feeding electra he jumped out of his water so high :O i heard a little ploop as he flopped back in, so i decided to give him 1 pellet to munch till tomorrow, then ill feed him normally. Hes pooping and swimming fine. It was a close call, he was really uncomfortable for the first 4-5 hours though. Scary to see him lose all his color like that.
lol aw your poor girl, instead of agoraphobia, she has afishaphobia *insert corny laugh*


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Haha, she probably does have afishaphobia! I should try to shoot a video of feeding time in the sorority, it's crazy. They jump around so much they literally splash me.

I'm so glad Old Man's doing better. Yay Old Man! But you can always count on Electra to give him new life.  Yay Electra!


----------



## Punki

Electra is the queen of the castle, and such a flirt )


----------



## fightergirl2710

Tranny had an eggspot for a long long time, then he had a major fin growth spurt and I was all, "You're a dood?" I had almost put him in my sorority! XD The 30 divided sounds good! I think you can divide it further later on as well... All of them can get 3.5 gallons each and you'll have double the bettas muahahaha! *is getting carried away*

Good to hear Oldman's better


----------



## BlueEyes

Yay I finally got caught up. The second picture of the jarred baby is so adorable it literally squeed out loud. My brother is staring. 

All of the babies are beautiful. It'd be hilarious if all but one were girls so you could put them in the thirty and then divide the ten.

Old man and Electra were meant to be. How cute.


----------



## Punki

Thanks  a few pics from just now, they like to nibble my finger


----------



## fightergirl2710

Lol! Adorable! Silly babies XD


----------



## Sakura8

Nom! Wait, this isn't a big worm, it's a finger! Oh well. Nom!


----------



## Punki

lol Thats how it is. I can feel them trying to *clean* under my nail, nipnipnipnip tickles


----------



## Sakura8

:-D It does tickle, doesn't it? Kind of a weird tingley tickle. They're so cute swarming around your finger like that.


----------



## Punki

I started hand feeding them pellets and they just jump and grab and nip, its so adorable! It does tickle, and they like to rub on my finger also, its like little fishy cuddles. I told my husband to put his finger in last night, and he was so nervous not knowing what to expect. All the white ones were carefully examining this new hand, and not nipping and then sharky swam up fast and my husband said "oh no the big one!" and before sharky could even nip, miss piggy nipped him 3 times really fast and he jumped LOLOLOL. If i didnt get so attached id love to breed again next summer. Even if i found homes itd be impossible to give them up. Im having such a hard time letting go of any of these guys. But the fun experience of this is so great.


----------



## fightergirl2710

Lololol! Your hubby's scared of the bettas? XD That's highlarious!


----------



## Punki

lol Apparently, i had no idea! He now calls them little piranhas.


----------



## Bettas Rule

Geeze your babies have gotten soo big!! They look so good! I am so glad miss piggy is better too. Way to go !


----------



## Punki

Yes they have, they keep growing bigger and bigger daily it seems. Miss piggy is my favorite <3 Thanks


----------



## Punki

Pictures~
















































^squito is attached to my finger tip! The first pic shows a good size comparison to my hand. they rest on it


----------



## Sakura8

Aww, Punki, they're adorable and they love you! I rescued a betta girl from my Petco a few nights ago who was the same size as Miss Piggy but very emaciated. She fit on a spoon, she was so small and weak. Sadly, she didn't make it. Breeders seem to be shipping their bettas younger and younger these days.


----------



## vette91

+1 to that Sakura. I saw a girl at Petco the other day that was no longer than my thumb nail(under an inch). She looked healthy enough though.


----------



## Punki

Aw im sorry to hear that =[ Odd though, how do they even KNOW the sex if they are under an inch, im having horrible trouble cause ALL my babies have eggspots lol. Did you happen to get any pics of the little one before she passed? I couldnt imagine shipping them at this age, maybe local travel but not shipping =[


----------



## Sakura8

I did. They're not happy pics, though. I believe she was too small to eat the big pellets they feed at Petco so she was starving to death. I was feeding her frozen baby brine shrimp via eyedropper directly into her mouth.








View attachment 38129

View attachment 38130

View attachment 38131


----------



## Punki

That poor poor baby girl =[ To fit in a spoon like that, she really was the size of my babies. What a sad short life she had, she was definitely starving there, her head looks so big compared to her little frail body. It is very upsetting to see one so young, in such bad shape. Heartbreaking. You did great sakura, feeding her as you did, giving her a chance, im sorry she couldnt grow and show herself to you. Im sure she would have been so sweet. Getting one so young gives it plenty of time to attach and grow with you. I wish it had worked out.


----------



## Sakura8

Thanks Punki. I'm just really sad that they ship them so young. She wasn't the only very small girl at Petco, either. Most of their girls were that tiny. I almost walked away because I'm running out of room, but then I thought about Miss Piggy and all of your lively, happy little ones and I couldn't bear to leave without her.


----------



## Punki

If i didnt have my babies id probably be going to see if my store had any. Heck if they werent possibly diseased id be buying them and adding them to mine. Poor little ones. I feel the same, after watching mine grow all this time i couldnt stand to walk away either.


----------



## Sakura8

I wish I had room for another sorority for all the tiny girls at Petco. Some people need fish rooms. I think I need a fish hospital.


----------



## Creat

I talked my manager to put a bunch of the fish into the planted tanks its where the adoptable and special needs fish go  there is a tiny little blue brown ct female that reminded me of your little girl


----------



## Punki

All is well in fishy land today. Their growth isnt as drastic as it used to be so daily posts seem to just repeat. Im noticing 2 babies with slightly ripped tail fins, almost as if flaring causes the rip, i keep watching but theres 0 aggression so someones being supersneaky or they are just flaring. The rips heal overnight it seems, crazy how fast the babies can heal!


----------



## Punki

Pics from tonight 
First is my baby sharky, growing so adorably!
















So friendly 
Miss piggy always runs from the camera so getting pics of her isnt as easy as before. But sharky gives me love with rubs on my finger.
























This is the runt, its almost caught up with the rest and is showing some pretty light blue starting to cover its body. Its always been my sisters favorite so itll end up with her i think 








Edit to add, a pic of miss piggy i finally got, shes -> lol


----------



## Sakura8

I am loving those crown/comb tails on your babies. I don't know why people look down on the combtails, I think they're pretty.  Haha, can always Miss Piggy with her rosy cheeks. She's such a cutie!


----------



## Punki

Miss piggy is a shy cute one  Sharky has the cutest green lips, and the rest are just starting to get really light blue/green sheens to their white bodies. One even has two dark spots on it, they are so tiny, im hoping its coloring and not somethin freaky like a tumor or something xD. 
Well the baby i jarred last week is now alone, no contact with any other fish and handling it alright. But still has an eggspot so i dunno if its just a brat girl or a mean male


----------



## BlueEyes

Those red spots on Miss Piggy are cute, but look kind of funny. Not trying to concern you, but it looks kinda like a form of bacterial infection I saw online once. Just throwing that out there, but she's probably fine since she just now got out of aquarium salt and all that. 

The jarred baby is so adorable.


----------



## Punki

Yeah she colored up to red cheeks in her jer time, shes had this, slowly darkening since, but she eats fine and doesnt back down from a good flare. If i ever notice anything though ill know where to start at least so thanks for the input on her. Id hate for anything to happen with her.


----------



## Tisia

Sharky's lips are adorable. I love when their lips are different colors


----------



## Gloria

Have just been reading through your thread/log... WOW. Congratulations... How old are the babies now?


----------



## Punki

thanks! they are 2 and 1/2 months old


----------



## Gloria

Well, they are all VERY beautiful.. You are sexing them soon I think i read? Between now and in a month? Thats so exciting. Again Congratulations!!


----------



## Pataflafla

I think Miss Piggy's cheeks are just coloring. I've got a little veil tail girl that is almost identical to her and she has red cheeks too.


----------



## Punki

Well ive given one of the babies away, i gave the one id jarred a couple of weeks ago to my dad. Should have seen me walking up the road with a jar and tank lol! I put water conditioner in a container with written instruction on the front and some pellets with the amount to feed daily written on the front. On the walk there the fish was just looking around, not freaking out or anything, he enjoyed his trip lol, i worried hed get stressed but he didnt lose his color and he would wiggle dance when i held him up to my face, after i transferred him into the tank at my dads he just explored, loving his bigger space out of the jar, and ate right away. So the transition was perfect. Hes now on the nighttable for my dad to lay and watch at night. His purpose is served


----------



## fightergirl2710

Awesome Punki! What a brave little guy.


----------



## Punki

Yep, watching him look around as i walked made me think all of them will want "walks" lol and that reminded me of some images my dad once sent me when i got into the hobby.
























lol silly pics :


----------



## Sakura8

Well done, Punki.  You raised your baby up right because a betta who hadn't had nearly as much human contact as yours would have freaked on the walk there. And you get to check on him whenever you want, too.


----------



## Punki

Yep  He still has the egg spot but his tail was getting obviously longer then the ones in the tank so hopefully hes a he 
Now squito, i keep thinking shes a girl but jeez shes feisty, lol  Thanks


----------



## Sakura8

I really can't wait to find out what gender each of these little babies is. If we were gambling people, we could make a betting pool, hahaha.


----------



## Punki

lol  Well squito, and 3 others have shorter wider spreads and look like ct females, the rest have longer tails, they ALL have egg spots so the rest are either VT dominant but possibly female or boys. I tried looking for the eggy area inside the light ones but its too hard! They wiggle too much and tangle against each other dancing for me xD


----------



## Bambi

I cant get over their adorable faces and love of your hand xD/


----------



## Punki

LOL This is the hand that cleans their home and gives them foods and rearranges their furnature so i guess it is okay, i like the feeling of them rubbing against me, its so soft and tickly.


----------



## Sakura8

Who knew you could pet fish?


----------



## Punki

Dad just messaged me to tell me the fish is good, that its ate 2 pellets today and he will give it one before bed. He watched it last night and fell asleep, and when he points to it it wiggles at him. So its doing great, wiggledancing and taken right to him. Im so happy about it


----------



## Sakura8

Yay! That's good news. Seeing your dad visit a lot probably really helped the fishy to adjust to his new home with him.


----------



## Myates

I want one of your girls lol.. seriously though 
Been on a search for a little girl that just "calls" to me, and fell in love with your pics. You've done an amazing job with them!


----------



## Punki

Aw thanks  ive been watching them tonight and i THINK im sorting out who's who. i can kindof see a sideways triangle inside some of the light colored ones behind the stomach and none in a few, the ones that have no sideways triangle have longer fins, if this is all true then i have 4 white girls, and squito is MAYBE a girl and 3 boys plus sharky most likely being a boy because of his fins growth, and my dads...Ill have to go check. 
Im sure your right Sakura. Theyve been in 3 different homes so they havent been in one place for long in their lives with all the transferring i had to do so change isnt as drastic and my dad did sit with them every day for at least 10 minutes to watch them. 
So out of 9 thatd be 4 girls, 4 boys and an unknown with my dad. Seems pretty evened out 
OH and miss piggy? Shes got the biggest triangle behind her stomach so im pretty sure shes a she!


----------



## Sakura8

Whew, I'm glad Miss Piggy is most likely a Miss. It wouldn't quite be the same calling something that cute with those rosy cheeks Mr. XD It sounds like you could have a decent sorority if you decided to keep all the girls.


----------



## Punki

Yeah 4-5 isnt so bad. Even if dads is a girl i doubt id switch her out and put her with the girls, Too much flaring and nipping from that one  Reading back i think ive miscounted in my explanation xD its basically 3 girls, 3 boys, 2 unknowns left. if this is the case, i can keep the sorority in the 10g heavily planted and divid the 28g up into 4 and keep oldman, electra, sharky and a white boy from the spawn


----------



## Sakura8

I like the sound of that plan.


----------



## Punki

Yeah im so curious to see how the light ones turn out, and sharky is my bestest fishy friend that "pets" me so yeah perfect plan i think  I spent my day measuring out the 28g so i can properly make 4 divides for them. 7 gallons each wil be so nice, oldman wont know what to do with himself XD


----------



## Sakura8

Hahah. I suspect Old Man wouldn't care if he was in a pickle jar, so long as he could see Electra. XD But yeah, he'll be so happy with that much room.


----------



## bettalover2033

So recently, how old are the fry?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

They were hatched july 16th so they are 11 weeks old today. They can fully eat pellets/flakes and are alittle over an inch long.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> They were hatched july 16th so they are 11 weeks old today. They can fully eat pellets/flakes and are alittle over an inch long.


Thats great! Have they developed their own personalities yet? Who is the "BIG BAD WOLF" of the pack?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

lol The one i jarred was the boss, flaring and chasing everyone away from the ammonia reader and now that hes gone little miss squito is the meanie, but its funny because shes so small and they all fear her. xD 
Sharky has the best personality, he wiggle dances like a king and opens his little green mouth begging for good, when i put my hand in hes the first to rub against it, swim between my fingers and lay on my palm, hes a sweet heart. The rest follow him and do the same after a minute or two.  Miss piggy is a shy girl who is STILL a pig, she eats like a pro, and i have to worry about her overeating and taking the others food cause after a feed she looks so plump and content lol


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> lol The one i jarred was the boss, flaring and chasing everyone away from the ammonia reader and now that hes gone little miss squito is the meanie, but its funny because shes so small and they all fear her. xD
> Sharky has the best personality, he wiggle dances like a king and opens his little green mouth begging for good, when i put my hand in hes the first to rub against it, swim between my fingers and lay on my palm, hes a sweet heart. The rest follow him and do the same after a minute or two.  Miss piggy is a shy girl who is STILL a pig, she eats like a pro, and i have to worry about her overeating and taking the others food cause after a feed she looks so plump and content lol


Aw. Im glad miss Piggy has gotten better and is as perfect as she was in everyway! The personalities are still developing, as i see from what you have told me.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

New pics!
All is well, the baby my dad has is doing great, when my dad sits down he swims up to the glass FLARING and dancing, tempting dad to feed him more, but dads resisted  
The rest are growing well, very little aggression, no nipped tails, so far all is calm in the tank surprisingly. They keep growing and growing and changing, i suddenly now have a very shiny light green one (last pic) thats making me excited lol. My mosquito larvae have died off from lack of rain and cooler temps so they are living off decap brine shrimp, pellets and flakes, doing great


----------



## Creat

DAW I cant wait till my babies are as big as yours


----------



## Punki

Cant wait to see yours also Creat xD I keep watchin your thread


----------



## Bettas Rule

I know right! Yours have progressed so well! That green one is VERY pretty! Can you do video?:-D


----------



## Punki

ill try to shoot a video tomorrow at feeding time, i forget my new camera has that feature xD


----------



## Sakura8

Ooh, the light green one looks like it has some Electra coloring. They're all so adorable. I never get tired of pics of these guys.


----------



## bettalover2033

So have you figured out which you are going to give away or "sell"?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Not fully, im waiting until i can sex them, for now my sisters picked out the smallest, im unsure of its sex 100% but she doesnt care. A coworker of my husbands doesnt care what she ends up with either but i plan to give her one of the medium sized ones that i think is a male. Im keeping squito, sharky, and one white, im not sure which, im torn between the one thats turning green and one that has 3 small dark marble spots showing up on its back. They dont mind what they end up with but i still want to keep my girls so im waiting, they are all very calm so there is no rush really. Not selling any of them just giving to responsible ppl xD
Thanks Sakura, im loving the color its showing 
Today i went to visit my dad and check the baby out i gave him, its growing! Then in the corner i saw it, a messy bubblenest! so it was a boy afterall


----------



## vette91

Do you think your going to spawn the pair again? I know old man is... well old. But I bet a lot of people would be interested if you got a bigger spawn 
I would!


----------



## Punki

I thought about maybe spawning electra with a light colored male in the future, shes still young and healthy, the offspring would be really pretty CT's im sure, but ive never shipped fish and i worry about doing it, and dont want to unless im 100% sure i have homes lined up, so its never really became a reality in my mind. Ill post if i ever do though


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Not fully, im waiting until i can sex them, for now my sisters picked out the smallest, im unsure of its sex 100% but she doesnt care. A coworker of my husbands doesnt care what she ends up with either but i plan to give her one of the medium sized ones that i think is a male. Im keeping squito, sharky, and one white, im not sure which, im torn between the one thats turning green and one that has 3 small dark marble spots showing up on its back. They dont mind what they end up with but i still want to keep my girls so im waiting, they are all very calm so there is no rush really. Not selling any of them just giving to responsible ppl xD
> Thanks Sakura, im loving the color its showing
> Today i went to visit my dad and check the baby out i gave him, its growing! Then in the corner i saw it, a messy bubblenest! so it was a boy afterall


Thats GREAT! Cant wait to figure out the sexes huh? I know i can't!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Yes, its so hard to wait! The one i gave my dad was jarred for about a week and a half to slowly adapt it to being alone in cooler temps (76-78 instead of 82) And that whole time it didnt bubblenest, i kept waiting and waiting and finally just said "here, i dunno if its a girl or boy but i think boy" and set it up at his house. Today when i visited it swam up flaring and i saw a messy nest in the back, hes practicing He does still have a little eggspot bump though, but he is long, his tail is growing, and hes aggressive with a bubblenest so boy it is  
Im REALLY excited to keep the girls, i have the 30g outside, split into 4 divides for electra, oldman, sharky and a white boy, and my ten is cycled and just waiting for the sexing to happen but as long as their peaceful im just going to enjoy it. Dads was the only fighter and since him, theyve all loved each other and been nice. Ive got some plants QT'd outside, lots of floating plants and some java moss. Believe it or not, i took a small clump outside and left it for 2 months and its 4x the size now!


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow. Im still so puzzled as to how you keep that tank outside! So where do you live?


----------



## Punki

Oh it wont stay outside, its just outside right now as ive been gluing in all of the dividers and cleaning it up preparing. Its quite large so i dont plan to bring it in until im ready to fill it up xD Ive got some sponge jammed into the cycled tanks filter so i can transfer it when i set up the 30g and avoid cycling issues.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Oh it wont stay outside, its just outside right now as ive been gluing in all of the dividers and cleaning it up preparing. Its quite large so i dont plan to bring it in until im ready to fill it up xD Ive got some sponge jammed into the cycled tanks filter so i can transfer it when i set up the 30g and avoid cycling issues.


Oh I see! Well i thought you had the whole spawn outside this whole time.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Oh! No, my neighbors arent the brightest and always dump my mosquito larvae even with a sign written on it saying DO NOT DUMP. Its close to the door though, which is why i have an algae tank, looks gross but isnt bad for them at least. I could have done an outdoor spawn if it wasnt for the neighbors though, it was a very hot summer in FL.
Also i just remembered, i need to make a video of the little ones! ill get on that this evening


----------



## Punki

My cameras video mode isnt great, it made everything really high contrasted and washed out their colors =/ But at least you can watch them wiggle when i walked up 
http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/punkiiiiiii/?action=view&current=DSCN2146.mp4


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Oh! No, my neighbors arent the brightest and always dump my mosquito larvae even with a sign written on it saying DO NOT DUMP. Its close to the door though, which is why i have an algae tank, looks gross but isnt bad for them at least. I could have done an outdoor spawn if it wasnt for the neighbors though, it was a very hot summer in FL.
> Also i just remembered, i need to make a video of the little ones! ill get on that this evening


Well sometimes those kind of neighbors just need to leave things that arent really their business alone. Great video too! The red cambodian is very spunky.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

They mow my daughters play area so i cant complain too much, except they accidentally mowed my pumpkin patch down, hard to miss, but they somehow did =/ Thanks, thats miss piggy wiggling the most, shes chunky and happy and was feeling much less shy then usual today


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow. That is funny. I think miss piggy has the cutest and most interesting betta story ever!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Im torn between her and squito, living outside in a mosquito larvae bucket for a week or more then being scooped out is pretty cool too, but miss piggys a miricle girl, she had sbd for 3 1/2 weeks and suddenly got better and was able to rejoin without issue. Im keeping her for sure


----------



## Bettas Rule

They are so cute and active just flirting away at the camera . Very nice .


----------



## Punki

Thank you! Its funny because they know my face, they are smarter then people give them credit for! When my husband looks at them they swim over then go back to what they were doing, they know im the feedder and attention giver so they show off, jump out of the water and dance only for me. I was devastated back when that dragonfly nymph took out 90% of my spawn but because of that ive got some very one on one personal fishies.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Im torn between her and squito, living outside in a mosquito larvae bucket for a week or more then being scooped out is pretty cool too, but miss piggys a miricle girl, she had sbd for 3 1/2 weeks and suddenly got better and was able to rejoin without issue. Im keeping her for sure


Miss Piggy's story is really cool! (IMO)

And why are you putting any of the fry out in the larvae bucket?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

lol I didnt intend to, i had 60-70 fry and i fed them tiny live mosquito larvae and other microrganisms and squito got stuck in the net, at the time they were like, little lint balls and i didnt notice, went back outside to scoop out more food for them and i guess i deposited her in there. About a week later i was checking on the larvae bucket (id also been QTing some duckweed in it) and as i went to scoop mosquito larva she swam into the duckweed so i pulled it all out and found her. She was twice the size of the rest of the spawn, they hadnt even gotten tails yet but she had one! For 2 week i kept her in a little jar, since the duckweed had came from my canal out back i wasnt 100% sure if she was a betta or a minnow. Later she got some blue shimmer to her so i acclimated her into the fry tank without issue.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> lol I didnt intend to, i had 60-70 fry and i fed them tiny live mosquito larvae and other microrganisms and squito got stuck in the net, at the time they were like, little lint balls and i didnt notice, went back outside to scoop out more food for them and i guess i deposited her in there. About a week later i was checking on the larvae bucket (id also been QTing some duckweed in it) and as i went to scoop mosquito larva she swam into the duckweed so i pulled it all out and found her. She was twice the size of the rest of the spawn, they hadnt even gotten tails yet but she had one! For 2 week i kept her in a little jar, since the duckweed had came from my canal out back i wasnt 100% sure if she was a betta or a minnow. Later she got some blue shimmer to her so i acclimated her into the fry tank without issue.


WOW, thats why she is so tough! The duckweed living situation, toughened her up! Lol.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

YES i find it amazing that 4 dragonfly nymphs took out 60 of my fry in a week, yet she lived with those same nymphs in a bucket all that time, in varying temps and unconditioned well water, with every other day water changes (warm sunny water half emptied and replaced with cold well water) and didnt go into shock or anything. Shes tough, but when i feed her she gets stress stripes, shes a silly girl XD


----------



## Sakura8

They're so wiggly! *wiggle wiggle wiggle* I'm in love with the little guys.


----------



## Punki

There you are Sakura, i havent seen you on as much lately in the disease section, i hope all is well with you! You could see their stomach (especially miss piggy's) were full but that doesnt stop them from doing "the jig" )


----------



## Sakura8

Hi Punki. I'm doing okay, just working through a weird sleep disorder. Some days I sleep for 14 hours or more and am tired a lot. @[email protected] I've been told it's a vitamin D deficiency so I'm taking supplements but I guess they haven't kicked in yet. 

How cute your dad's betta blew a nest already. Is that the first confirmed bubblenest from one of the fry?


----------



## Punki

Yep, its the one and only so far but the rest are in a filter so they couldnt if they wanted XD It was funny hearing dad say "Do i really need to change his water today? He JUST built this bubble nest thing" cause ive BEEN THERE XD


----------



## Sakura8

:-D Yup, haven't we all. Why oh why do they love to build bubblenests right before water change days?


----------



## Punki

As soon as they get comfy, we suck it all away xD 
Well i hope you get to feeling better sakura, ive been there lately because im trying 2 antianxiety/antidepressants and some days im hyperactive and some days i dont want to move. Kepp fighting the good fight


----------



## Sakura8

Thanks, Punki. You too. I know how you feel. Any time I start a new med, I get all the fun side effects right away even though the stupid medicine doesn't kick in for a month. I'm on Cymbalta now, was on Zoloft.


----------



## Punki

Im on buspar and cylexa, at first i was running laps in my yard literally, but not so much anymore lol  I still say my fish are the best therapy


----------



## Sakura8

Oh the joys of side effects. But I agree with you, the fish are the best therapy in the world.


----------



## Punki

Yes, i just went in 3 days ago and found out my INCREASED anxiety and depression was from my anti-anxiety/depressants, thats just....not good at all! lol


----------



## Sakura8

I know, can you believe it? How crazy is it that a side effect of an anti-anxiety/depressant is increased anxiety and depression?!


----------



## dramaqueen

Unfortunately anti anxiety meds can make your anxiety and depression worse instead of better. When I started on the Zoloft I thought the side effects would never end. I couldn't hardly get out of bed! I had zero energy but after about 2 weeks I started feeling much better. I agree with you, Sakura. Fish are the best therapy in the world. I don't know what I would have done without them and this forum.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> YES i find it amazing that 4 dragonfly nymphs took out 60 of my fry in a week, yet she lived with those same nymphs in a bucket all that time, in varying temps and unconditioned well water, with every other day water changes (warm sunny water half emptied and replaced with cold well water) and didnt go into shock or anything. Shes tough, but when i feed her she gets stress stripes, shes a silly girl XD


Lol. I think if i was a fish, i would get them when i am not fed. But to get them when you are fed is just a little backwards.

-BL2033


----------



## BlueEyes

Y'all want sleep aids? Read "A World Only Lit By Fire" it'll put you straight to sleep. I don't know what to tell you about depression and anxiety. I've got both really bad and my mom refuses to get me anything for it. *shrug* Fish are a good therapy though.


----------



## Punki

Im on medication but i have been in the past, but the therapy im also in is AMAZING. I finally found a therapist i like that works for me and that is working wonders. My fish hobby also works wonders, sometimes i fall asleep on the couch staring at them )


----------



## BlueEyes

Ha yeah. I can't wait to get fish. Falling asleep watching them sounds nice and peaceful.


----------



## Punki

It really is, plus the light drizzle of the filter sounds like rain, super peaceful!


----------



## vette91

If you like the drizzle of the rain and have a computer near your bed, go to rainymood.com
it puts me out every night


----------



## Punki

Ohh i do and yep i do! I always find ocean sounds but JEEZ as soon as im half asleep a bird SQAWKSQWAWK's and wakes me up. I like the rain without the loud thunder. Thanks for the site!


----------



## Ajones108

I just read all of this thread in two days and I'm absolutely in love with it. I plan to keep watching as well, because I want to see if you have any little boys. They all look like girls in picture. 

As for the current sleep/depression conversation, my mother has a sleep disorder called Narcolepsy and I inherited it from her. Was diagnosed a week before my high school graduation. Narcolepsy can manifest itself in several ways, the main two being excessive daytime sleepiness despite getting ample sleep, and sudden urges to just fall asleep. I've fallen asleep while driving once. My thing is mainly EDS. It's SO hard to get out of bed in the morning because I only have one sleep cycle: deep sleep.

When you ladies mentioned not being able to get out of bed in the morning but are getting 8+ hours of sleep, it makes me wonder, because Narcolepsy is often mis-diagnosed as depression. Before they would diagnose me I had to go through two blood tests, and I was spot-on perfect except I had a slight Vitamin D deficiency. No history of mono, not anemic, etc.

Just thought I would mention it. The only way to diagnose narcolepsy is by doing an overnight sleep examination in a controlled environment (hospital). 

Can't wait to see if you have any boys!


----------



## Punki

Thank Ajones, i know one of the ones in there is a boy, the eggspot has vanished but otherwise im like you, i just see a bunch of eggspots and no aggression xD


----------



## Bettas Rule

They are looking great ! Is that light green one a boy?


----------



## Punki

Its been a rough few days. Usually Florida gets quite a few hurricane "scares" this time of year, and we always prepare for it but without any warning 2 nights ago suddenly the place was shaking, doors were rattling in the hinges, the roof was cracking, trees fell, places flooded, it was very scary. When it passed and the sun came up we had no power, in the midst of securing food to not go off and removing tree limbs and repairing i completely forgot to unplug the fry filter and forgot about their 82 degree water getting cold. Suddenly the power comes on alot later on and the temp in their tank is 72-74, and their ammonia meter is UP UP UP from what im assuming is some good things in the filter dying and then being pushed into the water. Sadly there was nothing i could do, our roads were shut down and we couldnt leave the island yet and these babies were on spring water, my tap would have been more damaging im sure plus my big bottle of prime had been knocked down and spilled so my only real option was just leaving them and hoping for the best. The following morning (today) we got into town and i got my 3 big jugs of spring water filled up, i did a 75% water change and cleaned all the plants. Though stressed and striped, they were all okay. Not acting as active as usual but still eating and begging. Tonight they are all a bit more active and i hope fine. It was all very scary and stressful though. My ammonia is back to non existant but im guessing this means my tank will need to re-cycle which sucks but at least all are alive.
Im hoping the green ones a male, the longer tail makes me think yes, the flaring makes me think yes, the eggspot is smaller then some of the others so im hoping its not really an eggspot and hes a he.


----------



## Sakura8

That's a major bummer about the tank. It probably will have to do a mini-cycle but I'm really glad all the fry are okay. If they had been younger, they may not have made it. And interesting that the ammonia meter finally did something. When I had mine, I got the impression that I could have immersed the thing in a jug of ammonia and it still wouldn't have registered anything.


----------



## Punki

I felt the same way about my ammonia reader, i thought it was broken XD While i was sick i forgot to keep my grandmas goldfish tank up to date and those two big things were living in ammonia from only a week of no water changes. I had dipped the ammonia reader in her water and it did nothing but as soon as i threw it out it turned a deep blue and i thought "So it DOES work." The fry only got the green reading but its ALWAYS yellow so it was scary =/


----------



## vette91

Punki, you have got to have the most exciting betta breeding experience. I am glad I've followed this thread! I am also glad all the fry are still okay. That is definetly a scary situation.


----------



## Punki

Im sure everyones experience is probably really interesting, its all a matter of them feeling like they need to write EVERY.LITTLE.THING XD Im currently rooting for Creats breeding, so many fishy friends have lost their lifes and those babies are sick but hanging on, i hope they make it! 
Thank you though, im glad its interesting and exciting and i have others involved with the ups and downs of it all, it helps take the load off a bit


----------



## Bettas Rule

glad everything worked out ok.  You are a shining example for all betta breeders


----------



## Punki

Aw thanks  
As of this morning all are back to normal except squito, shes still got a bit of stress stripes nad her swimming seems a bit hyperactive and erratic but shes eating and all so hopefully she recovers fully, shes been my toughest fry all along so i have alot of confidence in her


----------



## Punki

Maybe im just in denial and they are all girls. So many eggspots.


----------



## Sakura8

I can't get over how adorable those combtails are! I love the double prongs on them.


----------



## Punki

! 
I also noticed tonight one of them only has one full length pelvic fin and the other is a nub. Im unsure if this is something i just havent noticed or if its a nip injury. No tails are nipped and i havent noticed any agression though so im not sure. Their mommy Electra only had 1 pelvic fin when i got her and she never grew the second one, it stayed a nub. Im wondering if this is a birth defect or what. The baby seems fine otherwise but i just thought i would point it out.


----------



## Sakura8

Oh, that's right! I forgot that about Electra but now I remember you mentioning it when you first got her. She gets along fine though. Hmm, it does seem like a genetic thing, doesn't it?


----------



## Punki

I think so, at least from what ive read when some fish get an injured pelvic or it gets bitten off they have to adjust to it when swimming, this baby swims as usual and it doesnt look bloody or anything. Hopefully its just genetic.


----------



## Sakura8

Your one pale green-blue baby is turning out gorgeous! I love the shimmer.


----------



## Punki

Yeah so pretty! If him, sharky and "dot" are all male, i will have to choose between him and dot and i dunno if i can do that so im hoping dot is a girl. Dots tail is pretty full though =x This is dot.


----------



## Sakura8

Dot has some of the prettiest rays I've ever seen. They're gorgeous. But I don't know, something about Dot's face makes me think it's a he. :/


----------



## Punki

Yeah hes got a slim body, an eggspot, and a tail thats a bit longer and fuller then the others, hes heading towards male. I just wish eggspots were reliable! lol! 
I know what you mean by their faces, sometimes i can just TELL. Dot just has those two little dots on his back and i really want to see where they go. But the green/blue one, thats gonig to be a pretty unique fish around here. I wonder if i can fit another divide in the 30g LOL!


----------



## Sakura8

I think you could get another divider to work in there. Where there's a will, there's a way. ;-) It would be too hard to decide between Dot and Sharky, they're both too lovely. Haha, this is why I'm afraid to breed my bettas. I just don't know how I'd choose which bettas to keep. Haha, I'm so not good at decisions like that.


----------



## Punki

As they grow it gets harder and harder because i start noticing more and more personalities standing out. The girl my husband works with has had a 10g waiting for one lucky baby for a week now because my husband made the mistake of thinking i was ready to part with them since id given my dad one so shes constantly asking and i just keep making excuses because i cant decide! Well i kind of have one in there that im not horribly attached to, i love them all but it doesnt stand out and all, but its so peaceful in there, with them getting along so well its hard to think of jarring one and getting it used to being alone.


----------



## Sakura8

You could go to Petco and buy a tiny female and claim it's one of yours. :shock: I'm so bad. >.<


----------



## Punki

lololol XD She sees them on facebook though, hse might get suspicious, hopefully petco has white ones -runs- LOLOL


----------



## Sakura8

Haha, well, I know you'll make the right decision. The lady's off to a good start by having a 10g.


----------



## Punki

Yeah shes got a heater, filter, 10g running and just needs a fish. Her friend gave her a 10g a couple years back so she figured it cant hurt. Her boyfriend insisted on a small small bowl but she refused, and this was BEFORE i sent her instruction. I got a good feeling about her


----------



## Sakura8

Good chance to make a betta lover out of her.


----------



## Myates

I want some! I'd love to take any of your girls. Beautifully raised!


----------



## Punki

Thanks Myates  Ive loved every second of it, even through the ups and downs of it all. Im shocked at how theyve turned out compared to mom and dad, its very interesting and rewarding seeing all those "8[" faces swim up at once wiggling for food every day )


----------



## Myates

I can imagine. They are something special..
I'd love to breed them at some point (used to breed live bearers and cichlids looooong ago), but my place isn't big enough. But one day! Until then, I get to "ooh and ahh" at other's babies lol.


----------



## Punki

All is well again with all of them, squitos back to her old self as well so today i decided was a picture day! I did some up close shots of them as well since my camera let me, just to show their little details a bit better.
First is one of my favorites, its a no namer but it has two cute orange dots on its lips, sharky, and miss piggy








A closeup of the unnamed with the orange mouth dots...








Sharky








Dot and the orange dot lips








Sharky again..








Up close of dot








This one is the one my sister picked out, it was the runt of the bunch, turning out very pretty.








Miss piggy being fat 








Squito, lips, my sisters pick, and dot, oh and sharky is wiggling under them lol








Squito and sharky, best friends always, i think they can tell they are both similar colored.








Miss piggy and dot








Sisters pick, dot and sharky








Miss piggy and greenish








Dot and sharky checking out sisters picks tail








greenish








Squito being stressed








Sisters pick, squito and sharky








lips and sharky








sisters pick (its the only one with light eyes as well, very cute )


----------



## Punki

Lips was the one i wasnt as close to, but looking at these pics, at her big eyes and cute face, oh noooo lol


----------



## Gloria

So how old are they now??
They look SOO cute!! I want one


----------



## Punki

On the 18th they will be 3 months old  They say thank you they try their best


----------



## Gloria

lol.. You have done a wonderful job Punki. I love their colours!!


----------



## Sakura8

They have grown into such beautiful, handsome little bettas.  You should be so proud of what you've done with them, Punki. They're awesome little things.


----------



## Bettas Rule

What beautiful babies!! They have come so far 
I just love that green one, is it a girl or boy? If it's a boy he is sure gonna be a gorgeous crown tail!! The dark green coloration is just stunning. You could try to find another dark green betta to spawn with, and then you could create the perfect green crowntail.:-D


----------



## Punki

Oh you mean Sharky  Ive got a light greenish one and a dark green, dark green is mr sharky, His tail is noticeably longer then the others so im going with male


----------



## Bettas Rule

Punki said:


> Oh you mean Sharky  Ive got a light greenish one and a dark green, dark green is mr sharky, His tail is noticeably longer then the others so im going with male


He sure is a pretty boy


----------



## Punki

Yeah, hes the sweetest of the bunch, he likes to rub himself between my fingers, and hes got those cute green lips lol. He one of the ones im 100% sure im keeping  Its funny because hes named sharky because as a baby he was the ugliest and looked sort of like a shark but he proved me wrong


----------



## BettaGirl290

Miss piggy and dot look like twins


----------



## Punki

They are similar, miss piggys cheeks are a bit redder, otherwise very close 
Edit: i just remembered i was at my dads today and i took a pic of the one i gave him! His names Bow, for rainbow, but hes looking a bit gender confused =x let me upload it


----------



## Bettas Rule

Punki said:


> Yeah, hes the sweetest of the bunch, he likes to rub himself between my fingers, and hes got those cute green lips lol. He one of the ones im 100% sure im keeping  Its funny because hes named sharky because as a baby he was the ugliest and looked sort of like a shark but he proved me wrong


I have heard that it's often the ugly duckling story with some of the prettiest betta's.  Seems as your sharky has become quite the swan...so to speak lol


----------



## Punki

View attachment 39855

Bow, the one given to my dad 2 1/2 weeks ago. First to be aggressive and first to leave home.


----------



## Gloria

aww.. She is Adorable!!


----------



## Punki

Is bow a she? Im horrible at telling with some of them. Bow was chasing and flaring and being really mean in the fry tank so i jarred for 2 weeks and adjusted, then moved him to a 2g planted at my dads and hes grown and colored up quite a bit, but yeah the egg spot and that slight area of the stomach has me wondering if i gave him a mean girl instead of a bad boy =x Bow has made attempts at mini bubblenests but doesnt flare at himself yet so im not 100%.
And thanks, he/she has started getting some nice color in this week


----------



## Gloria

To me Bow looks more like a girl at this very point in time. But I could be VERY wrong 
If Bow does end up doing a He. I am VERY sorry I called 'him' a her


----------



## Sakura8

That's a tough one. The shorter anal fin and the egg spot all say female but the behavior and the face say male. At least Bow is a gender-inspecific name, haha. (S)he looks very good and very happy.


----------



## Punki

lol  Ever since bow was removed ive had peaceful harmony in my tank, bow was the king/queen. I wish i could tell such things at this stage xD


----------



## Punki

Yes, luckily my dad didnt care either way and bow was too aggressive to be a sorority if he is a she so (s)he has a good home XD


----------



## Punki

Got good lighting on my camera and got to show Sharky shimmer <3 Poor squito is blending with darkness next to him.


----------



## Sakura8

I love the red showing up on Squito's head. And Sharky totally looks like he's posing for the camera. "Is this my good side? Yeah, it is. Okay, fire away!"


----------



## Punki

lol he does that, when i come up now they dont just gather they JUMP OUT making little plop noises. Ive been trying to snap a shot of one in midair but that has proven to be SUPER difficult. If i do, you guys will be the fist to see


----------



## Sakura8

They wanna give you a big fishy kiss and hug.


----------



## Punki

Lips is packed up and ready to go to his new home tomorrow.








Ill miss you lips but your new mommy has a huge home for you ready to go!
and heres a few shots of the rest of them today.








































I cant believe they are old enough to go to homes! I gave lips a couple of mosquito larvae tonight and wrote a 4 page instruction sheet that she can reference if she needs to, and a sample of the food he likes. I feel like im sending my child off on its first day of school lol.... sigh~


----------



## Gloria

awww.. Punki.. so cute.. Hope Lips loves her new home 
Youll be ok Punki


----------



## Punki

Thanks Gloria  I sat for days wondering which to give up and lips was the last one i had gotten attached to, i couldnt stand to part with any of the others for sure. I just keep telling myself hes going to a 10g partially planted, heated tank with a girl whos been asking about him for months now and patiently waited since...5 months ago for me to breed sucessfully. He wont be neglected and will have even more space then i could give him. Plus lips was at the bottom of the pecking order, had a nip or two and would literally jump and stick to the glass when feeding time came, i think he was ready to be on his own. Im excited to hear how she reacts finally getting him.


----------



## Gloria

nawww... how cute.. I am sure lips will be taken care of 
glad someone has a good home for lips


----------



## Sakura8

Aww, Punki, I'm sure it's not easy parting with Lips but (s)he sounds like (s)he is going to be the best home possible.


----------



## Punki

Yes, the new owner walked in and did her usual "Wheres my fish" to my husband and is used to hearing "i dunno lol" but today she asked and he said "back in the office" he said she squealed and rushed back, grabbed the big jar and watched for awhile and next thing he knew she was walking up to him saying "It makes faces like this at me when i get close!" and she was opening and shutting her mouth in a sad face LOL She thanked me for the 4 page letter and said lips is a beautiful little baby. With her reaction youd think she was 6 but no shes a 24 year old girl whos been patient for 5 months lol!


----------



## Sakura8

I think she will love that little betta forever and ever. Will Lips be her first betta? If so, what better way to start out in the hobby than with a betta who was so lovingly raised. You have done a great service to bettas everywhere by starting someone out on the right track.


----------



## Punki

Yeah this will be her first betta and shes absolutely clueless about them as well, she doesnt have any pre-disposed innaccurate teachings. Her boyfriend however grabbed her a tint square and shes like "... too small, im going to trust the person who gave it life before i trust petsmart" so WOO!


----------



## Sakura8

You're making an impact, Punki. That's awesome news for bettas everywhere.  I'm so happy to hear that. And she's so lucky she gets to start out with a homebred betta and not a sad little store betta.


----------



## bettalover2033

Man, they have really grown since before i moved! Great fish! Love them!

BL2033


----------



## CalvinWill

I just spent 2 days at the office reading this whole thread a few pages at a time. Great log. Awesome babies. Just had to give you my thumbs way up. This read like a novel with tragedy, hopeful twists, and an overall happy ending. Thank you.

My male looks almost like Electra. I will be spawning him at the start of the new year. I will try to make half as good a spawn log as you, and if my spawn is 1/4 as interesting as yours, I will consider it a success.


----------



## bettalover2033

CalvinWill said:


> I just spent 2 days at the office reading this whole thread a few pages at a time. Great log. Awesome babies. Just had to give you my thumbs way up. This read like a novel with tragedy, hopeful twists, and an overall happy ending. Thank you.


That's a great way to think of it! A novel, that is just too funny. Though im sure it really could be made into one.

-BL2033


----------



## Sakura8

It is like a novel, isn't it? It's gripping and you can't wait for the next "chapter." Well done, Punki!


----------



## Punki

Thanks! I havent taken any pics of them in the last few days because i woke up to a floating Electra. She was bloated and stressed for 2 days, finishing up day 7 of epsom salts and shes okay. SHEW!


----------



## Bettas Rule

Punki said:


> Thanks! I havent taken any pics of them in the last few days because i woke up to a floating Electra. She was bloated and stressed for 2 days, finishing up day 7 of epsom salts and shes okay. SHEW!


Wow glad she made it out ok! The spawn is looking great!! I am glad lips got a good home too I am starting to have to think about that too.


----------



## Punki

Its a tough thing, expecially once you become attached to them each as individuals. I just had to tell myself that i couldnt eep lips as happy as she could, just to jar him up. He got a little ribbon on his jar and some java moss in his jar and he was off to his new mommah. I still stalk her to be sure things are good but they are. She keeps talking about the wiggle dance xD


----------



## bettalover2033

When you said belly up, i thought you meant, dead :/ Yikes!! I was scared for you lol. Glad shes okay.


----------



## Bettas Rule

bettalover2033 said:


> When you said belly up, i thought you meant, dead :/ Yikes!! I was scared for you lol. Glad shes okay.


I know right!! I was like OH NOES! But them I was like WHEW! close one!! 
WAY TO GO ELECTRA!:-D


----------



## Sakura8

Oh no! Poor Electra! What happened, Punki, was she eggy? I'm so glad she's okay. That must have been scary!


----------



## Punki

She was so eggy that once id fed her it put her into bloat, the next morning when i woke to feed her she was floating on her side and VERY stress striped. She begged for breakfast but there was no way. Her opivisor was sticking WAY out and she couldnt stay down at all. After i put 1g of epsom salts in her normally 3g tank she pushed herself under her plants leaf to stay down but after day two she looked normal, i kept it up till day 7 to be safe. Slowly feeding her again at day 3. Thats about when she became unstressed. Alot of warm epsom salted water and a blanket over her really helped her. I, too thought she was dead when i first found her floating that morning =/ she was so stressed and pale she didnt look herself, plus the float =/


----------



## Sakura8

I'm so glad Electra is okay now! Whew! Egginess is scary. It's the only part about females I don't like.


----------



## tpocicat

On the top and floating! I'm glad she recovered. I'm also glad I wasn't the only one that was frightened at first.


----------



## Punki

tpo what a cute little fishy in your pic!!!
Thanks  Shes still doing well. It really just scared her when she couldnt get down but id never seen her stressed so much before. Not even during oldmans persuits with her. 
In baby news, my sisters betta baby and dot are battling quite often. Neither are backing down. They circle and nip and flare. Both are male i think. Tomorrow my sister comes to get her betta i believe, if not hes being jarred either ways. Its getting quite cool here so i like to have their next home lined up just before i remove them. Squito has always been a girl to me but lately shes been battling with the boys and flaring, Also doing the male wiggle dance when girls approach and blowing bubbles at the surface.... her egg spot is also shrinking so....Yeah


----------



## Sakura8

Aw, no! I want Squito to be a girl! Maybe just an aggressive girl? I'll have to go back and look at the pics of Squito. I realize the heads of males and females are a little different. Male lips kind of . . . jut out a little, like they have male attitude.

Poor Electra. I can understand. When my HM got shock-induced SBD and couldn't swim down, he panicked too. The more he tried and couldn't swim down, the more he panicked and the worse he got.


----------



## Punki

Yeah, once she wedged herself under a plant leaf and had a blanket over her and the heat turned up from 76 to 80 she really just slept through the issues. I just had no idea i was going to look in and ee that when i did my morning hellos! it made my heart jump!
Id love your opinion on Squito, besides the egg spot shrinking and the wiggle dance towards others, and her blowing bubbles at the surface when they come near, shes not wide like i read girls are, but shes small and her tail doesnt look longer then any of the other girls.


----------



## Sakura8

Who is this?


----------



## Punki

Thats sharky  Let me go grab my camera and snap a pic of squito so you can look at her current


----------



## Punki

View attachment 41279

Here she is with sharky staring at her...as always... (sharky COULD be a girl.. or a very calm boy with an eggspot >.>)(ignore the algae outbreak >.<)
and heres one of my known males, hes flared so much that he ripped his tail a bit.
View attachment 41280


----------



## Sakura8

Something about Squito says female to me but I'm certainly no expert. I could be very, very wrong. If you look at the little male you can kind of see how his lips pook out and up. I just don't see that in any females. Also, males have a more rounded back, leading into the head. Uhm, the back of their head kind of slopes down to their mouth, whereas in the females I see, it's more of a straight line. I'd try and take a pic of one of my females as an example but since they're in a sorority, they absolutely never stay still. Uhm . . . let's see. How to explain it. When I look at a male betta's head, the lips are apparent, more prominent. When I look at a female's head, I don't see the lips. 

Sorry, my methods of telling male from female are rather unscientific. >.<

Either way, Squito is gorgeous. Whether it's gorgeous beautiful or gorgeous handsome . . . not 100% sure.


----------



## Punki

I understand, oldman and electra have the features your talking about. Squito is just a silly confused girl i guess. Maybe she thinks wiggling under her single blown bubble will make them all swim in fear or something xD


----------



## Sakura8

These are some of my males. Can you see how their lips are prominent and how they have more of a sloped head? Or is it just me and my imagination?
























And here are two of my girls. To me, their lips aren't prominent and they have a smoother line from their back to their head. Also, they seem to have a different shape than males. They're narrower at the tail but deep-chested, whereas it seems the males are more rectangular.


----------



## Punki

I see it!  I want squito to be a girl...unless sharkys a girl... i want one dark boy and one dark girl! lol


----------



## Sakura8

They're all so beautiful. I'm so glad I was able to follow your spawning efforts, Punki. It's been so fun and sad and sweet.  You have an awesome spawn log and I'm sad that its end is near. When all the babies have gone to their homes, I'll miss reading about them.


----------



## Gloria

Agreed Sakura8
Punki are you going to breed again, after this one?


----------



## Pataflafla

Squito does have a more feminine look. Sharky, though, definitely seems to be male if my judging by looks is correct. Sharky's ventral fins seem to be pretty long, which I find to be a good indication of gender, the longer the more likely it is to be male.


----------



## Punki

Nah the best thing is that most of their homes are with me  only my sisters is leaving (its a boy), the rest i get to keep. Ive got either 2 or 3 boys depending on squito and sharky otherwise ive got girls that i can actually see the egg sack inside of, yay for transparency XD and i got space so... yep


----------



## Punki

I dont think ill breed again but if i do itll probably be next spring, never with oldman again, hes retired! Ive learned a ton but ive also learned its a ton of work, a ton of fun, and that i need a bigger home and more tanks =x
Thanks for the input pata, im hoping he is, i think hes the prettiest of the bunch and i want to see long fins!


----------



## Sakura8

If I ever breed, I hope my spawn log is as good as yours, Punki.


----------



## Gloria

I wish my spawn log was as good as yours Punki !!


----------



## Punki

lol im glad you enjoyed it, i felt a bit annoying cause i updated quite often about every little thing and posted pics almost daily, thought id get repetitive =x I plan to print all this... 103 pages out....JEEZ o.o and put it in a folder to keep. It was quite the fun summer project


----------



## Sakura8

Nope, you were never annoying. You were writing a betta bestseller here.


----------



## Punki

lol XD I just wish i had more time to browse the forums like i used to. On the plus side, ive lost 20 pounds and am starting to lose some of my fears of driving. Thats about the only other things i work on in my spare time besides the fish, the rest of my days filled with my 3 year old thinking im the BEST TOY EVER


----------



## dramaqueen

I think spawn logs are great. Other people can learn a lot from them.


----------



## Punki

So the babies are well, growing out their tails a bit. Sexing is becoming easier for a few of them. But i wanted to update on mommy and daddy. I sort of hate the betta breeding ritual lol! When oldman and Electra were embracing, at one point they stopped to play chase, he was really angry though and bit her face, then they went right back to it. Well when he bit her face he bit into her lips and left quite the damage. It healed and she never stopped eating so it was okay, but taking pictures tonight i can see the permenant damage it did do. Its only visible from one angle but its a clear dent just above her lips.








Hopefully you can see it. Otherwise shes fine dispite her bloated scare last week.









Oldman...Well hes still oldman, he is grumpy and just wants to sleep all day. He gets very angry when i try to take a picture of him, that or he is just showing off and *flex*ing









His fins have been frayed and cured since breeding, im guessing just wear and tear+hard water. But yeah he doesnt notice. 
And a few shots of the babies this week 
























































The last pic is miss piggy. Shes turning red 
Sorry about the brown/green algae, its a constant battle =/


----------



## Gloria

Electra is still gorgeous, Punki. I am glad that both the parents are doing well :
How old are the babies? They are SO big and cute !!


----------



## Sakura8

Aww, poor Electra. I can see the dent. That must've hurt! Boy, when Old Man is ready for love, he wants it right away. I'm glad she was able to keep eating through it all. 

The babies are getting more and more beautiful. I can't believe they used to be eyeballs and a tail! Makes me wonder if any of those teeny fry pics you posted at the beginning were of Sharky or Miss Piggy or one of the babies now.


----------



## Bettas Rule

Sakura8 said:


> These are some of my males. Can you see how their lips are prominent and how they have more of a sloped head? Or is it just me and my imagination?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here are two of my girls. To me, their lips aren't prominent and they have a smoother line from their back to their head. Also, they seem to have a different shape than males. They're narrower at the tail but deep-chested, whereas it seems the males are more rectangular.


WOW!! How observant of you! I looked at all of my pictures and it's true, the males have bigger more pronounced lips. Probably for blowing bubble nests I would assume. The females just have this streamlined mouth that you can barley see but then males have big fat lips LOL.


----------



## Punki

Sakura i believe has found another way to sex bettas cause its completely true xD
The fry are 3 months 2 weeks old now. I have 3 males in there and 4 females. There is some minor nipping but adding a few more hiding spaces seems to have calmed them down. Sometimes ill watch a male and female do their showing off for each other without a nip if you know what i mean xD Miss piggy is eggy i believe, shes plumped up and her color has deepened to more of a red. 
Yeah Electras poor lips, oldman is such a rough kisser =[ But she took it like a pro, figured she better stop messing around and get back to wrapping. It looked really bad that day, hanging a bit, but the following day itd already healed quite a bit, so im glad it stayed attached but i pity her "scar."


----------



## Sakura8

:lol: Thanks, guys. I just noticed it a while ago when I was feeding my bettas and I saw that all the guys looked lik they were puckering up to me and the girls didn't. So I started looking closer and noticed the differences in head shape, too. 

Miss Piggy is eggy already? My my, she's growing up. I bet she'd be pretty all red but I like her as she is too.

It never fails to amaze me how fast betta fins and wounds heal.


----------



## Arashi Takamine

I'm so glad to hear the babies are still doing well. It looks to me like the kids are turning into gorgeous crowntails.


----------



## Punki

Yep, some have more of a droopy vt look with combtail tips but a couple can flare out a ct look in all its glory so far


----------



## Punki

Sharky is my favorite lol, always resting on my hand and stuff during water changes. snapped a few pics.








Sharkys smile 









And the other kiddos


----------



## Gloria

They dont seem to mind you putting your hand in there. How did you get them to be like that?


----------



## Punki

When they were really little id always clean their water with my hand in there so they lost the fear (which made water changes harder!) and then id always dip food in on my fingers as well so they associated my hand with lots of good stuff lol. Plus i really enjoy sitting and watching and put my hand up to them often so they just have no fear. In my "minibook"(lol) i wrote for all the owners i give away to i wrote that they should try putting food on their finger too and so far even those ones are friendly. My husbands coworker that got one said "My goldfish are boring now, this betta jumps up and grabs food off my finger and rubs against me!" LOL! poor goldfish =x Ive got one jumper that likes to jump and literally sticks to the glass and slides back down when he gets excited. Its HILARIOUS!! They are like fishdogs


----------



## Gloria

lol.. Aww punki, you are so awsome.. You make me laugh.. Your babies are SO gorgeous, I still cannot believe how grow up they already are. You have to breed again, one day.. soon 
I make sure I put my hand in the water when I siphon and I also sit and put my finger up to the glass, since im feeding BBS I dont stick it to my finger i use an eye dropper to put it in. maybe I should start using my figner


----------



## Punki

Ah back in those days id just hold a syringe in my hand and release so it still seemed like my hand was feeding them, i dunno i just hoped itd make them more social then usual and it seems to have worked out pretty well. If i can catch the glass slider on cam ill put it up asap i laugh so hard everytime cause he just stares at me blankly as he slowly slides down XD


----------



## Gloria

Yeah you have to show us 'Slider' he/she sounds SO cute!!!


----------



## Punki

LOL it is very cute! He seems so embarrassed afterwards too, like "omgomg foodz! *dance dance spazzspazzJUMP**SPLAT* then he stares at me and slowly slides down, then he swims away embarrassed until i drop food XDDDDDDDD I think its dot thats doing it, dot has wound up being a boy xD


----------



## Gloria

lol.. Well you definetly have to get a video of it up


----------



## Punki

I havent managed to get a video because i overfilled their tank, they kinda...bump the plastic when excited atm =x Anyways i think ive found my most unique pretty guy but i need help, what is he labeled? two pics...
No flash








and flash..








His fins are red and transparent with a blue sheen in the light at some angles. 
Whats this called? 
Tomorrow they will have a thanksgiving feast of bloodworms and mosquito larvae live. Its pretty cool that ive got FOR SURE males but little to no aggression or nips on 4 months old babies!


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow they are coming along nicely! And I would categorize the male in the pictures as a Cellophane and red bi-color.

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Thanks  Yeah they keep growing and growing, im finally able to distinguish males/females. So far aside from a random flare they are managing, i expected to have to remove the males by now but i guess if they are playing nice then i dont need to worry yet. Theres more females then males though, i think the girls keep the boys in line because oddly the girls seem to be the same size as the boys right now xD


----------



## bettalover2033

This is really exciting! How old are they? And how many did you get out of this spawn?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

I had 9, but 2 are at their new homes now doing well. I would have had more if the dragonfly nymphs hadnt snuck in *shakes fist*
oh and they are 4 months 5 days old


----------



## bettalover2033

Oh man! I wish you could have had more! That would have been great. Im guessing that you're going to keep the ones you have and breed those?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

I MAY breed one of the males to their mother so i can have a full batch of crowntails next year if she seems up for it, shes still pretty young at the moment so next spring maybe. Shes too pretty  If i dont breed her ill probably try to find a cellophane female to match up with the boy above, the rest will just be my babies forever xD a cellophane CT isnt something seen too often i think.


----------



## bettalover2033

Nope! I cant remember the last time I've ever seen a cellophane CT or if i have ever even seen one before! This is really exciting!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Well i loooove snow and or some reason the image of a cellophane CT reminds me of a white snowflake or something, silly sounding but yeah


----------



## bettalover2033

Nah, it isnt very silly. I used to dream of bettas swimming in the air around me as I walked around. Like they could swim out of water lol so your not the weirdest one. That is quite normal than what I said lol.

-BL2033


----------



## Sakura8

Happy birthday to the little fry, it's hard to believe you're 4 months old!


----------



## Punki

They bloop face thank you Sakura  xD How have you been?


----------



## BlueEyes

I haven't been here in forever. My they are getting big!


----------



## Sakura8

Punki, I'm doing well.  I'm so happy your little fry are . . . well, not really fry anymore, are they? They're all growed up! Your little glass slider sounds hilarious. 

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your cute little ones, Punki!


----------



## bettalover2033

I am so glad you posted again! And on the same thread too. I was almost surprised that you posted again on the same one. I was waiting for bad new or something but thankfully that wasn't the case! Happy Thanksgiving to You. Make sure you stuff them like greedy bunch they are

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Nah i think i will wear this thread out, they will be a year old and ill still be updating this thread LOL


----------



## Sakura8

As long as you update, I will read.


----------



## bettalover2033

I will do the same!

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Thanks you too 
Today while changing out some water i decided to videotape them. If the glass wasnt slimy with algae they would have started sticking to it as usual but the humidity and algae helps them out. One got so excited he jumped then landed on a sibling then jumped again. I call it the double catapult! Heres a quick video of them taking turns jumping for fun  I uploaded to facebook publically but let me know if you cant view it!
www.facebook.com/v/2295703557334


----------



## tpocicat

I'll continue following your thread as long as you continue to post it. I can't view it, but I'm at work,(SHHHH) so maybe when I get home I can.


----------



## Sakura8

Ohmigosh, how cute! They remind me of my sorority at feeding time. They're so adorable!


----------



## Punki

tpoc hope you can view it at home xD and thanks 
They do, but its a couple of friendly boys kept in line by girls as well in there. Until i see aggression and big nips im just going to enjoy them together. Also wondering if maybe they will always just get along since they STILL are. Other then the occasional "get out of my way" nip theres nothing, and those nips are pretty much head butts with no damage. Im lucky to be able to keep them together still! But yeah, so friendly and funny, and PRO JUMPERS!


----------



## Gloria

Punki. They are so cute!! How old are they nowdays?


----------



## Punki

4 months 1 and 1/2 weeks old


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Thanks you too
> Today while changing out some water i decided to videotape them. If the glass wasnt slimy with algae they would have started sticking to it as usual but the humidity and algae helps them out. One got so excited he jumped then landed on a sibling then jumped again. I call it the double catapult! Heres a quick video of them taking turns jumping for fun  I uploaded to facebook publically but let me know if you cant view it!
> www.facebook.com/v/2295703557334


This video is so cute. They are coming along nicely! Have you named the spawn other than their parents tail type and color? Like a nickname?


----------



## Punki

Yep, i have...
Squito-








Dot-








Miss piggy-








Sharky-








Snow (he keeps getting lighter and lighter and his eyes are blue)-








Sticker (always sticking to the wall)








and smooch-








lol


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow! Look at Miss Piggy go! She has quite the interesting story. Squito is so pretty. I love his color.


----------



## Punki

Thanks! Yeah miss piggy always looks fat like that, but she doesnt swim odd or anything else. So i wouldnt say shes 100% in the clear forever, she will always need monitored at feeding times and right after since shes got less tummy space but otherwise shes fat, and healthy and ...i think eggy o.o Look out that eggspot poking out so far =x


----------



## bettalover2033

I see that she looks like a little fat thing in her pictures. It's so cute. I wouldnt say that she is eggy just yet. All fry have that "eggy" looking stomach's. Including the MALES. This is why males and females get mixed up when they are young.


----------



## Punki

It would be a bit odd for her to be eggy, but its a constant state of plumpness, even if i fast her shes plump, but she poops regularly and all. I feed in the morning and they eat and when i come by to feed before bed they get excited and poop and she always is included in the poo group XD


----------



## bettalover2033

Haha, that is too funny! you'll find that CT females are almost always very plump and they seem to be eggy all the time. This is the same with fry. They are CT's right?

-BL2033


----------



## Punki

Combtails and its odd you say that because its true! Their mother is almost always eggy and shes a full CT. That explains alot thank you!


----------



## Gloria

I have the same thing with Tiny Punki and she is a CT... That is very interesting to know thanks BL2033


----------



## tpocicat

Punki, yes I got to see the video, really funny. They sure love to eat! They are really becomming very pretty--all of them.


----------



## Sakura8

I love their names! Dot is definitely a male, he's got that male mouth. 

I think we'll all have a soft spot for Miss Piggy after all she went through.


----------



## bettalover2033

Gloria said:


> I have the same thing with Tiny Punki and she is a CT... That is very interesting to know thanks BL2033





Punki said:


> Combtails and its odd you say that because its true! Their mother is almost always eggy and shes a full CT. That explains alot thank you!


The only trouble that I had with that was that I didn't know if the females were ready enough, but that is okay because female bettas ALWAYS have eggs even when their stomach's aren't looking "full". Though I personally have always had a female that has breeding bars (when I was breeding).

And your welcome.


----------



## Punki

When Miss piggy get hungry, she gets angry! Look at her grumpy glare =x








But shed just eatten! She is so fat after a meal. Look at her fat stomach next to my pinky finger....








She has no shame =x
This little one named snow is my most unique. If i breed next year ill be using this one. 








Mr dots tails coming in quickly, i noticed a small rip in it but im thinking it was a flare rip.








This is playtime by the way. I put in a plastic blue hoop and they swim through it 








More playing, except for grumpy ol miss piggy.








Dot wants to show off his dot side 








wee~








beggers!


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow they have are really not tiny little dots anymore! And that first picture is so cute! I think Miss Piggy is one spoiled little betta and she looks ready to fight for her food! Lol. How old are they?


----------



## Punki

Four and a half months old. Yeah Miss piggy makes alot of serious business faces at food time lol. Shes the only one who always begs and wants more no matter what. I have glass worms and stuff in the tank naturally so the others just snack or whatever but she is too lazy for that sort of things and relies on me


----------



## bettalover2033

She waits till you come and says "Okay where's the GOOD stuff?"


----------



## Sakura8

Miss Piggy is so adorable! I love her grumpy face, it just makes her look even cuter. You will have the most social, friendly bettas ever, Punki, because you play with them.  I love them swimming through their hoop. Snow is pretty and I love that iridescence. It's been such a joy watching these babies grow up.


----------



## Punki

I treat them like a dog, trying to teach them tricks and such lol. The girl that got lips is very pleased with her interactive betta. She renamed lips "Jessa" and Jessa jumps and rubs fingers and dances for her  
I figure that the interaction keeps them from getting bored and angry. Im always rearranging things to keep them from claiming their territories and ive got my 20g out drying because i found some dividers finally for it! Once thats set up and seeded and warm im gonig to move oldman and electra then the boys in the fry tank when they do decide to get aggressive. For now they play and eat and interact, they know when the camera comes out, food comes soon after so they pose (except miss piggy and her grump face) lol


----------



## Sakura8

Well, you must be on to something about the interaction because your bettas seem to get along very well. And even when she isn't "posing" Miss Piggy is still so adorable with her grump face. She's so aptly named. 

Jessa. That's cute.  I'm glad Jessa has a good home.


----------



## bettalover2033

I love the fact that you can have multiple bettas in that one tank for now! It gives you great opportunity to try new things.


----------



## Punki

Yeah i consider myself very lucky to have them together still but without the environment changes im sure id have more issues. Basically when i notice one becoming possesive of a spot, i remove it/replace it. It was a wild idea but i figured bettas become more aggressive once alone because they take claim of their territory so i keep hoping with more space/plants/deco and constant moving they cant feel like its theirs so they wont defend it.... Nice experiment at least


----------



## Sakura8

That strategy works in sororities so I don't see why it wouldn't work for your tank. When a girl in a sorority gets possessive, it's always recommended to remove the decor she's claimed and switch things around a little.


----------



## Punki

I doubt this would work with males purchased separately but im hoping the female>male numbers and the fact that theyve never been apart might just make it work! OFL said she bred a few generations and got males that could live peacefully and that idea was so cool. Id love to be able to do that


----------



## Sakura8

I think you're well on your way to making it work, Punki.  That would be amazing if they could stay like that.


----------



## bettalover2033

Yup! Sometimes you wont want to just take out the decor and replace it, i would just tinker with it a bit until it looks a little different, (not always) also this goes back to what I said about two years ago about "domesticating bettas" and I was basically saying how cool it would be to domesticate some bettas and keep them together. Though I worry if by doing that, then they might not want to breed because they are so friendly...


----------



## Punki

Id say once you removed the breeder for a month to condition them instict would still kick in. The desire to claim territory seems to stay regardless in mine but generations down the line you might be right.


----------



## bettalover2033

Its very possible!
IMO


----------



## Punki

Opinions.... Is this a boy or a girl? It took ownership of any cavelike area of the tank and proceeded to bite off part of miss piggys fin and dots fin. Huge bites!! Removed them because they were obviously the culprit, poking their head out and chasing the others. Jarred for now while i finish setting up my 30g (dividers are drying) This his the fry in question upon seeing their mother (in the background) He does alittle wiggle there... Im thinking boy, but there is a tiny little dot where the eggspot should be and hes just big...bigger then the others...
http://www.facebook.com/v/2369797609639


----------



## mernincrazy8525

boy because he has long ventrals!


----------



## Punki

Thanks! I made another thread but the results are "girl." Ive got a little bubblenest he/she is building while watching their mother so im thinking boy also. The "eggspot" is there but its so tiny in comparison to some of my known girl babies. Im hoping its a he. The bubblenest reassures me but id like to be 100%. Im hoping my females can get along and be together forever, i dont want an aggressive female xD


----------



## Punki

I showed him his mother again and he went right under his little bubble nest and did a wiggle dance as she flared at him. So for now i will go with "him"


----------



## mernincrazy8525

well boys can have eggspots for a long time. one of my boys kept his eggspot until he was 5 months old and i bred him while he had it.


----------



## betta lover1507

aww i forget, wut ya feed them? how old are they now? there so cute i wish my fries could last that long ... hopefuly


----------



## Punki

As babies they were fed glass worms, infusoria, and egg yolk, later on baby mosquito larvae and bbs, then mosquito larvae and other water bugs, then and now mosquito larvae and betta pellets


----------



## bettalover2033

Well my guess would be Female at first sight and then male because of the widened caudal. I can't exactly see the ventral fins. Though I would say boy if he is bigger than other fry and his caudal!

Maybe another picture would help?


----------



## Punki

Unfortunatly ive left my camera in my moms truck. My sister graduated today so i was off taking pics of people for a change LOL  tomorrow ill try to get a few nice ones up with god lighting. Thanks for looking


----------



## bettalover2033

That's great! And Congrats to your sister! I have been taking pictures of people for a while and then back to fish again....*sigh* It's easier with people. They know how to stay still in a certain pose lol.

Can't wait for some pictures!


----------



## indjo

Punki said:


> Opinions.... Is this a boy or a girl? It took ownership of any cavelike area of the tank and proceeded to bite off part of miss piggys fin and dots fin. Huge bites!! Removed them because they were obviously the culprit, poking their head out and chasing the others. Jarred for now while i finish setting up my 30g (dividers are drying) This his the fry in question upon seeing their mother (in the background) He does alittle wiggle there... Im thinking boy, but there is a tiny little dot where the eggspot should be and hes just big...bigger then the others...
> http://www.facebook.com/v/2369797609639


IMO boy because he has long ventrals. His making bubble nest also suggests boy.

Young males may show egg spot. Usually they're not white like on females. If you look closely, they're more like a lump under the belly ... I don't know how else to explain it.


----------



## bettalover2033

Oh Punki, I'm sorry, I didn't notice that it was a video. I thought is was just the picture. Well I agree with Indjo, he is a boy because of his long ventrals and IMO virtically wide caudal! Love the colors on him! Developed very pretty!


----------



## Punki

Hm... Ill ultimately have to wait and see i guess. Ive got signs of both it seems lol! Heres a picture of him/her working on his tiny first nest, and another body shot.


----------



## Sakura8

Strangely enough, despite the bubblenest, it looks like a she to me. But the ventrals and the anal fin are also pretty long . . . tough one. But the face alone looks female. Poor Miss Piggy, I hope she's recovering after getting nipped.


----------



## Punki

Miss piggy is doing alright. It was a pretty big chunk out of her fin but shes still getting along fine with the others and eating. Shes got some white regrowth showing. Whatever this baby is, its gotta be seperated because i dont want that happening again. Good thing im not short on tanks lol! All of my craigslisting paid off XD


----------



## Punki

Hermaphrodite betta... maybe il call it phro for short xD


----------



## Sakura8

You know you love fish when you have extra tanks.  I'm sorry this baby can't get along with the others any more but hopefully, this is the only aggressive one.

Phro! :rofl: That's good, I like it.


----------



## bettalover2033

Where do you come up with these names lol! Great name and fits so well.


----------



## Punki

lol 
Well Miss piggy and Dot are still on the mend, miss piggys got more damage then dot but shes managing. Poor girl cant catch a break! Phro is well in her small tank for now while i let the aquarium sealant dry on the 30g, then i can slide the dividers in and have another tank! 
Heres the culprit of damage, Phro.








Her tail is quite long!
And heres poor little fat miss piggy in all her damaged glory.








and heres dot.








All the others are doing great.


----------



## bettalover2033

Dot seems pretty big! About how big are they?


----------



## Sakura8

Poor Miss Piggy! She looks pretty tattered. Phro, you silly . . . thing . . . you. Silly girl, silly boy. Whatever. Silly.


----------



## Punki

They are about an inch and a half long head to tail except miss piggy, shes a bit shorterand fat. Holding Phro next to his/her mom there is only alittle difference in size. In a couple more months he/she will be caught up/ahead


----------



## Punki

Sakura im assuming Miss piggy got it worst because she DOES NOT back down when food is involved lol =x


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> They are about an inch and a half long head to tail except miss piggy, shes a bit shorterand fat. Holding Phro next to his/her mom there is only alittle difference in size. In a couple more months he/she will be caught up/ahead


That sounds about right! Miss piggy fat as ever lol!


----------



## Punki

Im sure she had a slight deformity, i mean it took almost 2 months of 2tsp a gallon of epsom salts for her to suddenly recover, but her tummy is always huge. I am only hoping she looks big but doesnt grow into any more problems. And calms that huge appetite! You see all my other babies, shes the only one whos all bloated like that always, but she is always scooped out a fed in a cup and then returned when i think theyve got it all. But sometimes she still finds leftovers =x


----------



## Punki

Oh and she willingly swims into her feeding cup now because she just KNOWS =x


----------



## Sakura8

Hmm. Punki, if Miss Piggy stays fat like that, maybe try her on epsom salts again to see if goes down any. Either way, she's cute as cute can be and I laugh because it's so Miss Piggy when it comes to food. I can picture her if she was human, arms wrapped around all the food, growling at anyone who gets too close. "Mine! My candy! My cookies!"


----------



## Punki

Shes like a cookie monster of fish. I have given a week of epsom salts a try and fasted the first day also, even after pooping shes still huge. So i thought maybe she was eggy, but its been months and it still hasnt went away. I just limit her foods as best i can now and hope for the best. It almowt seems like her eggsack is huge, but always is. I was told CT girls are like that and Electra is, but not to this extent.


----------



## Sakura8

That's interesting. And her poo is normal? With an adult betta, I would say parasites but of course, with them being in one tank, if Miss Piggy had parasites, they all would. I'm thinking you're right, she's just mega eggy. Haha, seems like she's still too young to even consider egginess, doesn't it?


----------



## Punki

Hm... My idea is a bit out there but what i think happened is this... She overate and overate as a fry, eventually stretching her growing stomach tightly enough to affect her swim bladder for 2 months. She was so tiny i kept her in a cup for convenience in the daily water changes with epsom salts but i somewhat think that being put in a small space when that small possibly signalled her body to stop growing, or maybe 100% once a day wasnt enough for this piggy, i dunno, but somehow i feel like maybe the treatment cured her but in the process she didnt grow as long as she should have externally, yet her internal parts kept growing, so now she has a sensitive swim bladder and a huge egg sack but i think it only looks huge because her growth got stunted somehow....
That or the swim bladder issue started because of a deformity in growth. Her egg sack is definitely huge and the eggspot pokes out alot but like oyu said, it is a bit soon right now, much less when it was doing it a month ago. Im really not sure, i just know shes a bit shorter then the others but shes treated exactly the same and her eggsack seems abnormally large always, ever since she was tiny. Her poops are normal btw, ugly mosquito larvae leftovers or little cinnamon buns lol


----------



## bettalover2033

True, but i'm glad she is fine now!


----------



## Sakura8

As long as her abnormally large stomach and eggsac aren't affecting her ability to swim and enjoy life.  You could be right on that theory, since it's been proven that fry kept together in a smaller tank tend to grow smaller or slower. Either way, she's always going to be adorable.


----------



## tpocicat

The most important thing is that Miss Piggy is healthy and happy. I sooo glad they are all doing well.


----------



## watergale

wow i just read the whole post :shock:, very awesome! how are all the fry?


----------



## Punki

Thanks Tpoc  
Gale that must have taken quite awhile! lol! They are all good. Happy little girls and boys, and all getting along again for now =x


----------



## watergale

yes it took about 3 days, but well worth it the others were right it's like a novel! i like miss piggy's story the most as well as how she is turning out very beautiful!


----------



## bettalover2033

@Punki: I have been meaning to ask you.

When you first started the spawn and wanted to have infusoria, what did you use?


----------



## Punki

Lots and lots of duckweed put into the breeding tank for infusoria and then i had buckets outside full of other water plants id gathered from my canal in water, and i even put some strawberry leaves in some tank water and waited week and saw it swimming around. i tried lots of tips on making your own infusoria but the strawberry leaves left in the sun seemed to do it the fastest, oddly enough.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

Is there a thread on how exactly to make it? I dont have any aquatic plants, and its winter!
Or could you maybe step by step explain?


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> Lots and lots of duckweed put into the breeding tank for infusoria and then i had buckets outside full of other water plants id gathered from my canal in water, and i even put some strawberry leaves in some tank water and waited week and saw it swimming around. i tried lots of tips on making your own infusoria but the strawberry leaves left in the sun seemed to do it the fastest, oddly enough.


Thanks! Heh, who would have ever thought that strawberry leaves would make a difference with infusoria?!
Luckily I have a sun room that keeps out all the cold and when it's really sunny it is SO hot in there. So I'll see how I will go about doing that in the sun room.

Thanks again!


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

Infusoria
Just add some old fish tank water and add some left over green
Put it next to the window.
Will it start to look cloudy, green and smell.
You got yourself Infusoria


----------



## bettalover2033

What do you mean by "some left over green"?


----------



## Curlyfatbottom

Veggie


----------



## watergale

could we see some more pictures soon?


----------



## bettalover2033

Curlyfatbottom said:


> Veggie


Okay thanks.


@OP:I too want to see some other pictures of them when you're able to.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

So, when is it done? Is it supposed to turn to a gel? does it make your water cloudy when you feed it?


----------



## tpocicat

No, the water should be green, a little cloudy, that is the insuforia making the water cloudy. Put a flashlight near the top, and in a few minutes, the insuroria should move to the light, and then you can suck it out with an eyedropper.


----------



## watergale

wow so is insuforia basically sea monkey? o0


----------



## tpocicat

No insuforia is fresh water. Sea monkeys are salt water.


----------



## watergale

ah ok


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

tpocicat said:


> No insuforia is fresh water. Sea monkeys are salt water.


They are? I've never put salt in my sea monkeys when I was a kid!
They were usually in distilled water...


----------



## watergale

LyzzaRyzz said:


> They are? I've never put salt in my sea monkeys when I was a kid!
> They were usually in distilled water...


maybe the were fresh water monkey being sold as sea monkeys :shock:


----------



## tpocicat

Sea Monkeys are actually a type of brine shrimp.


----------



## watergale

oh it's all clear now :-D


----------



## bettalover2033

The name "Sea Monkey" was given to brine shrimp because it was to attract children so they would have a harmless pet/s.

It was just a name given to advertise and make money off of them because they are so easy to hatch and are portable.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

bettalover2033 said:


> The name "Sea Monkey" was given to brine shrimp because it was to attract children so they would have a harmless pet/s.
> 
> It was just a name given to advertise and make money off of them because they are so easy to hatch and are portable.


So, are they salt or fresh? Or are they different kinds?


----------



## bettalover2033

LyzzaRyzz said:


> So, are they salt or fresh? Or are they different kinds?


Brine Shrimp are in fact Salt water. I don't really remember hatching BBS without salt. I think I tried one time and It never worked (DON'T COUNT ON THAT).

Again, as a Simple answer yes they are Salt water.


----------



## Punki

I bought sea monkeys a couple weeks ago. You have to put plain bottled water in, then let this "magic powdwer" sit in it for quite awhile then add the ea monkey eggs which seem to have salt in with them. So Saltwater.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

Punki said:


> I bought sea monkeys a couple weeks ago. You have to put plain bottled water in, then let this "magic powdwer" sit in it for quite awhile then add the ea monkey eggs which seem to have salt in with them. So Saltwater.


That would be why i didnt remember putting in salt!

So..are there any "quick grow" live food for bettas? Or can you just grow the sea monkeys, and put them in freshwater when its feeding time?


----------



## Punki

The sea monkey kit doesnt give you nearly enough sea monkeys for fry so id count them out. I used Mosquito larvae but with the cold weather...eh


----------



## Sakura8

Microworms. Or vinegar eels. But you have to buy a culture from someplace online. And then there's the yuck factor. 

I never liked sea monkeys. I always expected them to look like, I dunno, little monkeys. Instead they looked creepy weird. XD

EDIT: Is live BBS necessary? For some reason, hatching BBS seems so intimidating to me.


----------



## bettalover2033

You can actually get brine shrimp or "sea monkeys" at walmart or in a lps for around five dollars. I got mine for about $5. I saw a quart sized can of them for only $15 and IMO im dumb for not jumpung on that offer when it was still available.


----------



## bettalover2033

Sakura8 said:


> Microworms. Or vinegar eels. But you have to buy a culture from someplace online. And then there's the yuck factor.
> 
> I never liked sea monkeys. I always expected them to look like, I dunno, little monkeys. Instead they looked creepy weird. XD
> 
> EDIT: Is live BBS necessary? For some reason, hatching BBS seems so intimidating to me.


Really? Thats very interesting that you'd say that because there have been a couple members that say that as well.

IMO they are one of the easiest creatures to hatch and the results are great!


----------



## Sakura8

I honestly don't know why. For some reason, it just terrifies me. Maybe it's having to have it hooked up to an airpump? Or having to hatch new ones out every few days? I dunno.


----------



## bettalover2033

Is it just that you don't like it or is it more of a hassle for you to hatch?


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

what are BBS?
Are they easy to hatch?


----------



## Sakura8

I'm not sure. I think it's more like a total lack of knowledge or understanding of it? I mean, from what I've read you have to hatch new eggs every day in order to get BBS, because they grow so fast. Is that true?


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

whoops looked it up, baby brine shrimp!
Can you feed these to adult bettas too?


----------



## Punki

You can, but they are tiny. And i think some people feed brine shrimp once they are bigger but they lose nutritional value as they grow. I could rarely get my bbs to hatch when my babies were fry so i ended up using decapsulated bbs eggs, egg yolk, and infusoria till they were old enough for tiny mosquito larvae (fun to catch..NOT) then just stuck to the water buggies in my mosquito larvae bucket until they could take tiny pellets.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

what could i raise for adult live food?
Id really like to raise my own food for my babies..


----------



## Punki

The only thing i have experience with is Mosquito larvae but unless your in a hot humid place with mosquitos at this time of year, they wont lay eggs in your buckets of water. Im in FL and slowly the mosquitos are dying off. My bettas are sad and i am happy and less itchy


----------



## bettalover2033

I used to live in FL but moved back to NY so I should scratch that idea off because the whole mosquito larvae is out of my reach. It does get freezing cold outside and the water would probably to ice.


----------



## LyzzaRyzz

Well, what is a live food that I could regularly buy? Live blood worms?
Or would that leave them prone to internal parasites?


----------



## tpocicat

I buy live black worms from my LFS. There is a wide variety of frozen foods that can be fed, and IMO are much more easy to use.


----------



## bettalover2033

I agree! Frozen brine shrimp is amazing and works SO GOOD for conditioning and just as treats if you want. And it lasts very long.


----------



## Sakura8

I was thinking of trying those Golden Pearls I've heard about if I ever breed. They're advertised as a BBS replacement.


----------



## bettalover2033

Sakura8 said:


> I was thinking of trying those Golden Pearls I've heard about if I ever breed. They're advertised as a BBS replacement.


Golden Pearls?


----------



## Sakura8

http://www.kensfish.com/product867.html

These. The only problem is I'm not sure what micron size to get.


----------



## tpocicat

Bambi sent some to me, my fry seem to like it.


----------



## Punki

Phro didnt like seeing her daddy much during her water change. What a feisty one!
video-> http://www.facebook.com/v/2457307157323

In other news, dots 100% healed, miss piggy on the other hand seems to be picked on. Im going to possibly remove her if i keep seeing her running from others. Bullies are mean to little miss  Pics tomorrow hopefully  But the video made me giggle. Big scary oldman and Phro doesnt care, she stands her ground!


----------



## Sakura8

Phro's got spunk! 

Poor Miss Piggy. She needs to start just going, "Moi? Haiyaaa!" like her namesake. 

Happy New Year Punki and little ones.


----------



## Punki

Yeah shes at the bottom of the group. Everyone else has a hidey spot, but she sleeps at the surface in a corner. I think i may add another plant for one to take claim of so she can have a hidey spot. If one wakes up looking for a midnight snack shes chased around.
Phro is indeed spunky! Shes doing her flexxing for oldman X))


----------



## Punki

Happy new year to you too Sakura!!


----------



## watergale

when you could do you think you could post a few pictures? my computer is to slow for videos :/ thanks


----------



## Bonbonisbff

These fish are so beautiful Punki!!! I have spent 3 hours reading thru this, enjoying every second of it. They are astonishing. I one day hope to breed bettas, but I'm only 12, and my mom is stressed out enough with me only haveing 1 male betta. Best of luck!!! Hopefully we'll have some awesome pictures heading our way soon


----------



## Punki

Ill take some tomorrow, they are sleeping atm xD Thanks for reading through it


----------



## tpocicat

I love your fry. I love ALL fry LOL!!


----------



## watergale

yay thanks you! can't wait! i have really enjoyed this thread.


----------



## Punki

Oh wow. Sorry i dissapeard a bit there. Ive had too much going on. I took some pics tonight of the little ones. Excuse the algae as usual. Its a pain to get rid of. Here they are 








































































































So apparently i have NO BOYS... All of them ended up being female. How odd. So the idea of breeding in the spring is not as cool. I was hoping to breed a male with Electra since shes young/pretttty and a full CT but theres no boys! Oldman had a bunch of little ladies in the end. Makes a sorority easier though


----------



## Bambi

Gorgeous ladies. You could always get a new CT boy to match your favorite girl when you want to breed. xD Maybe trade with another breeder(one of your girls for one of their boys).
How many did you end up with?


----------



## bettalover2033

Wow NO MALES. Thats really crazy! Though that does explain why it was so easy to keep them together eith such little aggression.

Do you still have the father? I would say cross him with one of them. How old are they?


----------



## Punki

I have him but hes 2+ years old now and id rather not stress him out. Plus hes a VT and i was hoping to breed one of his combtails to my girl for the full CT this year. Ill have to think of something! I ended up with 9 and 2 are at new homes but both female also.


----------



## Sakura8

:shock: Are these the same babies? They look so grown up! Such lovely, beautiful little ladies! Punki, it's so interesting you ended up with all girls but yay, that means you can keep them all.


----------



## tpocicat

At least with all girls, they can stay together, easier to take care of. A full crowntail male shouldn't be too hard to get to breed with one of them.


----------



## bettalover2033

Punki said:


> I have him but hes 2+ years old now and id rather not stress him out. Plus hes a VT and i was hoping to breed one of his combtails to my girl for the full CT this year. Ill have to think of something! I ended up with 9 and 2 are at new homes but both female also.


Yeah, you should try adding in some blue marble. It would be really interesting to see how that plays its role


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## dramaqueen

They're gorgeous babies!


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## watergale

wow there so grown up!


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## bettalover2033

Any new updates?


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## alysalouise

the female in the last picture facing the camera spawned with a CT male would give you some nice looking CTs in that spawn, from those pictures she has the best looking combtail
They all are really gorgous though!


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## Jirothebetta

Awwww, there all so grown up! Simply beautiful Punki, you did an awesome job ;-)


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## Punki

Its been quite awhile! The babies are no longer babies, they are now 11 month old girls! Yes thats right, all 9 are girls! All are still living as well. I will try and get some pictures up of them soon but one is currently sick. The one id given my dad got very sick VERY quickly. I came to visit and check in as usual and there it was at the bottom with full on dropsy. I put it in 2tsp/g epsom salts asap and withing 7 days the raised scales were gone but the damage is done, everytime she eats she gets swim bladder issues. Shes currently in Epsom still, in her own little home, otherwise, miss piggy had a bout of popeye which i treated and shes back to her old slef again and the rest are still at 100%. Still living together 
Oldman and electra live next to each other and she keeps him on his toes...er...fins when i let them see each other. Hes quite old but maintaining his health and shes as spunky as ever.


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## Olympia

Wow, one of the most memorable spawn logs ever. I started reading this when I first joined and always followed along quietly. Saw it in recent posts and had to have a peep! Sorry about the sick girl, but glad to here that everyone else is good! It was quite a journey! :-D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Punki

Aw thank you Olympia


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## bettalover2033

Sorry about your females. At least you didn't freak out when you found your girls with sicknesses.

Very interesting and trust me, this is the last spawn log I thought I would have seen! Nice to hear they are getting better as well.

Are you planning any other spawns Punki?


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## Punki

Thanks! I have no plans but i also have one girl that makes me feel like i want to, shes white with red and blue tips, She reminds me of fireworks so thats her name. I wouldnt want to breed her back to her VT father and have VT's though, so id have to convince my husband on another CT lol


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## Sakura8

Punki! Long time no see! I'm sorry a few of your girls aren't doing so well. Your dad's betta girl can stay in 1 tsp epsom salt/gallon all of her life if she needs to. I'm glad she pulled through. Usually when they pinecone, that's it. Hurray for her!


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## Punki

Sakura!  Yes ive been very very busy these days.
I know right!? I did all maintenance for his fish so i know it wasnt water changes or anything of that sort, all i can figure is that when his girlfriend did some cleaning it somehow got into her tank. It happened so fast too, he said he woke up, offered 2 pellets and she didnt swim up for them as usual so he looked and looked and finally saw her laying on her side on the bottom and called me over thinking she had died. One look and i saw the dreaded pinecones. Thats the only time in my life ive seen a fish pinecone. Honestly, after reading statistics on it and all i was convinced id have to put her out of her misery. She was lifeless, her body arched in an unnatural way, deep breathing, and pineconed but my dad was pretty upset about it. She had been next to his bed this whole time in her tank and hed watch her at night and in the morning. So when i told him how things were he insisted i try anyways so into the epsom she went. I brought her back here to my place and put her on a shelf in a warm room and covered her in a blanket, only uncovering her once a day for a water change and everyday i thought she was dead when i looked at her. I finally thought id just put her out of her misery and tell dad she passed but she was no longer at the bottom when i checked, she was swimming, or at least trying to swim, so i have kept her alive since. He visits her daily but shes staying with me unless she becomes normal again by some miracle. Its really a miracle she made it out of the pinecone stage. I think her organs did try to shut down though and are damaged. When she eats it takes longer then usual to digest her foods, and it does cause swim bladder issues. Right now shes in 2tsp a gallon in a half gallon container that is more wide then tall. Hopefully she makes more improvement but if not shes comfortable in my opinion. 
The rest are great, i get a few nippers from time to time so i have to rearrange things. Miss piggy was the only other problem with her popeye but shes healed up from that and is back to her fat self. Shes RED now btw


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## Sakura8

Sounds like a bacterial infection. They can happen so fast. Poor little lady. You did a great job with her, Punki. Very few of us can say we've brought one back from pineconing. Even with all the fish meds I have now, I still have been unsuccessful at bringing one back from that stage. 

I think it's so sweet your dad visits her. True testament to how easy it is for us to get attached to these little fishies. 

Aww. When you have some spare time, post updatedp pics. I'd love to see Miss Piggy all in red.  And I'm really glad to hear Old Man is still with us. Way to go, Old Man and Electra!


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## Punki




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## LyzzaRyzz

Awesome pictures! Great update!
Second photo, last betta, is she black with a yellow tail?


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## Sakura8

They're just as cute and adorable as I remember, only a little bigger.  I love the pics of them hiding in their decorations. 

How is your dad's betta girl doing?


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## repru04

Great sorority!


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## Sakura8

All sisters that she spawned herself.  Yay for Punki!


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## Punki

View attachment 58234

Not the best picture of my dads girl. When i held the camera up she really freaked out so i didnt want to further disturb her. Her status is basically.... I got rid of the pineconing, she has an appetite, but her digestion is slow. Live foods move through her faster so ive been sticking with mosquito larvae and live bloodworm. The day before she poos she gets this lump in her side right in front of her swim bladder. The lump used to affect her swim bladder but shes been swimming great for a week now. Shes quite easily exhausted though. I still have her on 3tsp of epsom but now ive noticed lots of white floaty film all around her by about 6 hours after waterchanges, im thinking this is some sort of bacterial infection thats gotten to her despite my rinsing her foods, so i need to do an aquarium salt treatment, im just so worried she will bloat and pinecone when put into aquarium salts so im hesitating for tonight but tomorrow i will probably lower her epsom salt levels by half and see how she copes. Then gradually switch to treating the bacterial infection and hope no bloating happens. I honestly believe she only made it out of pineconing because she was bred by me and fed live foods from birth and quite often while with my dad. A perfectly healthy lifestyle till some cleaners got into her water. 


Lyzza- Nah shes green with a yellow tail  She was the ugliest of the babies but now shes one of my favorites XD

Repru- Thanks  one of the sisrters was unmanageable so she lives alone, the rest seem to get along well with only minor nips here and there on moody days 

They seem small to me, despite my water changing as they grew, mommy and daddy are both bigger then them and im not sure they will grow anymore. Not sure why they didnt grow to fullsize, but they are cute  Id just not trust oldman or any other big male not to hurt them during breeding so i doubt ill ever breed them


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## tpocicat

They look like they're comming along beautifully. They still might grow some more, how old are they?


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## GunsABlazin

Well it can take a while to reach full size. Iv had fish that have grown after being with my for a year.


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## Punki

They hatched into this world July 18th 2011 so they are coming up on their first birthday! It would be nice to see a couple get bigger, just because id love to find them a CT mate to spawn with, without the worry of the damage being to severe. Glad to hear some continue to grow though, ill keep hoping for it!


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## jeffegg2

Punki said:


> when she got his tail i had such a rush of emotions, i was shocked, scared of her consequences of randomly doing such a thing in the middle of their sexytimes, and alittle amused because he was a bit rough and scary, and shes about as long as his TAIL, needless to say she did 0 damage to his tail even though she got dragged with the tip of it in her mouth across the tank XD he was like
> "lalala putting the children eggys in my nest lalala"
> and she was paralyzed and when her senses came back her face was next to his tail so it caught her eye flowing about and NIP then she held on as he frantically dragged her, and she looked like a fish on a hook, flopping around, but forgetting to let go XDDD needless to say that ended spawning XD
> Thanks, i feel really accomplished to research, put it all together, and it work  Im really excited to see the little ones swim, eat, explore and play


Too bad you didn't get a video of that! That would have been big!

Jeff.


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## BeckyFish97

Can you imagine youtube...you'd get 1billion hits!


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## Punki

lol i still remember that moment so clearly! My only thought was OH CRAP HES GONNA BE SO PISSED and i ran over to save her cause he was XD I scooped her out and he was angrily bashing his open mouth at the cup XD Betta men are such abusive men, ya cant help but cheer when she fought back XD


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## BeckyFish97

heheeeeee my boys are scared of jade  they leg it at first sight


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## GunsABlazin

Punki said:


> They hatched into this world July 18th 2011 so they are coming up on their first birthday! It would be nice to see a couple get bigger, just because id love to find them a CT mate to spawn with, without the worry of the damage being to severe. Glad to hear some continue to grow though, ill keep hoping for it!


Iv been folowing this thread for a year? Wow. Hahaha:shock:


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## Punki

Yep! I went to my first post and looked it over and was shocked as well. A year FLEW!


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## Sakura8

Punki, it's possible the white film you're seeing is just excess slime coat. Epsom salt does help promote the production of slime coat, although to a lesser extent than aquarium salt. It will also help fight off bacterial infection like AQ salt but again to a lesser extent. The epsom salt will help keep the buildup of fluids down which will affect her swimbladder. Do you have any dried oak leaves? You can crumble some of those into her tank. Better yet would be IAL. If you want some, PM me and I'll be happy to ship you some. IAL has natural antibacterial/antiparasitic properties. For the moment, unless she goes off her appetite, I would leave her in the epsom salt.

A whole year almost. What a journey it's been.


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## Punki

Oh great point Sakura, It may just be excess slime coat. Her lethargy is concerning, but otherwise shes okay. She only gets lethargic after a water change or anything that causes her to panic. I think ill stick to the epsom salts for awhile longer then. I completely forgot about slime coat! Overall shes slowly improving which is amazing from her pineconed stage. I put her in 2tsp epsom this time instead of 3 so we'll see how that goes. 
We had tropical storm debby for 4-5 days of rain this week and my backyard is overrun with mosquitos so before emptying some containers i grabbed a ton of larvae and threw them into the 10g with the girls, who are now fat and happy XD


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## Punki

The girl interests me alot. Shes got no color, blue eyes, hardly any shimmer at all. Looking at her parents i just dont know how a colorless girl could appear. Ive seen colorless before but usually their shimmer is white, but she doesnt have that. The flash on my camera gives her a bit of a shine but in RL shes transparent almost, and her bright blue eyes are pretty. What would you call this?
View attachment 58286


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## tpocicat

Pretty! I would call it cellophane. Any other guesses?


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## Punki

omg hahahaha I just noticed her sister hiding under the bridge giving her a dirty look "I was here first" XD Cellophane was the word i was thinking of! Just quite odd to see one coming from a blue/red VT and a blue/red female. I wondered if i got a cellophane CT if id have alot of little cellophane babies or if, although she has no color, shed breed alot of red/blue babies regardless. Shes so clean, ive had white, but the cheeks at least were red, never so so colorless. Pretty neat


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## Sakura8

She's adorable. Very unique.  I love her sister lurking in the background.


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## Punki

I havent been here in quite awhile. Ive been busy with life, moving, mommy stuff. Today OldMan passed on. Hed gotten dropsy 3 months ago so he had to be moved to a smaller container. He spent his last three months on the desk im sitting at now. Hed always lay close to the side im on and watch me. Dancing when id stand up. He had a good, long life. He got to father kids and live in many different tanks with many different decorations. He was my baby <3 
Sorry to bump this up but this is my final post in here. Most of the people i met followed me through this spawn log. An update on OldMans kids? Happy, healthy, sorority. 
Electra is still doing well also, though shes slowed down a bit. Shes not as hyper anymore but still loves to go crazy sometimes


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## Sakura8

Aw, Old Man. You did well, old boy. You have happy adorable girls and you had a good life. Thank you for the update on them, Punki.


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## Punki

Sakura8 said:


> Aw, Old Man. You did well, old boy. You have happy adorable girls and you had a good life. Thank you for the update on them, Punki.


Thanks. Today is my 30th birthday, im glad he went yesterday and not today but still pretty lost with this empty spot on my desk. I knew it would happen eventually, and he last alot longer then id hoped considering his rough start from walmart. At least i have his girls. Only one of his girls ended up being a "people person" like him and that is little old miss piggy. Shes still the runt but shes always at the glass looking out for me. The rest tend to do their own thing and argue over who sleeps where XD. Good to see you Sakura! And Moderator! Grats


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## Sakura8

Thanks, Punki. It's really good to see you too. Aww, dear little Miss Piggy.  *sniff* I'm getting all nostalgic thinking about how she grew up.

I'm glad he didn't pass on your birthday too, that would have been just too sad. For a Walmart boy, he had a good long life and of course I know it was a happy life too, with you.


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