# Do guppies, goldfish or white cloud mountain minnows need hiding spots?



## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

Extra five gallon tank options I'm planning. Don't know what my store will have. I'm hoping they have fancy guppies but never know. Anyways I need to know if either of them require a hiding spot like betta do. I only have a cave for my betta and I'm making a list of what I need for whatever I end up putting in the my other tank. My last option is another betta but I'm really hoping for guppies. So yeah. Should I add like a hiding decoration onto my list for any of those?


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

I wouldnt consider stocking goldfish in anything less then a 20gal, and thats only speaking for the fancy variety, not the single tail, comet or feeder goldfish they would need atleast 40gals (im really not exaggerating) the common type get a foot long and the fancy variety easily get softball size (not including fins) that is if they live long enough to even grow (most of the time they die from poor water quality because they create soooo much waste)

I would stock like 3 guppies at first, then add 2 more in a few weeks, but really 5 gals isnt large at all. 

you could probably get away with adding 3-5minnows then adding another 3-5 in a few weeks (once the cycle has stabilized but of course youd need to qt the others for 2 weeks before adding them)

If I was you I would set up a natural planted tank, that way it will have a better chance of having more stable water parameters 

you can use very easy hearty plants such as anubias, rotala, java ferns, java moss, pennywart, water sprite and water wisteria.

all youd need for the lighting is a desk lamp from walmart (about 10$) and a package of 13Watt 6500k (package lists bulb spectrum on the back) compact florescent bulbs, im pretty sure a 3 pack is like 6$, and if youre only using 1 bulb then you *theoretically* wouldnt have to buy a new pack for 1.5years ( I usually swap then out every 3-6months, usualy closer to 6 if I use it for about 8hrs a day)

trust me, I have the complete opposite of a green thumb, I killed a freaking aloe plant, just to list one of the many many plants that I have murdered.

all of the plants I have listed accept for the pennywart (for some reason it just doesnt like me, but its incredibly easy!) I have managed to not only keep alive, but they somehow thrived! 
as you can immagine I was incredibly hesitant to try live plants. the first live plant I ever bought was a bunch of water wisteria, just tossed it into my goldfish tank and it grew quite well just floating around, then i got more and more, and now i cant stand the sight of those ugly fake ones! 

so to sum things up, aquatic plants are awsome!!!!! they provide shelter, more stable water params, a butiful tank, and even food for some creatures!

goodluck! 

(please feel free to share what you decide to do!


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

Definetely no goldfish in a 5 gallon. They need 20+. 

You could have 3 guppies (males only) if it's cycled and well planted. I recommend hiding spots (lots of plants will provide this) because males can get a little nippy with each other!


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

kjg1029 said:


> I wouldnt consider stocking goldfish in anything less then a 20gal, and thats only speaking for the fancy variety, not the single tail, comet or feeder goldfish they would need atleast 40gals (im really not exaggerating) the common type get a foot long and the fancy variety easily get softball size (not including fins) that is if they live long enough to even grow (most of the time they die from poor water quality because they create soooo much waste)
> 
> I would stock like 3 guppies at first, then add 2 more in a few weeks, but really 5 gals isnt large at all.
> 
> ...


As I said depends on what my store has. I'm going this weekend and I have all decorations and gravel already besides something for them to hide in. I'm to scared to try a planted tank right now. Maybe after we move I will try. Won't be till next spring though. 

I'm really, really, really hoping for 3 male guppies for the tank but they only had feeder guppies when I was there in February for my betta. If you look in my pictures at Blaze's tank I have another one of those. So its got pretty good lighting. However I'm kinda freaked out about it. The first two days I had it the lights kept turning off like a hour after turning them on. But today they've stayed on all day. Maybe its because their new that they needed to get used to staying on? Anyways. 

After I move I might start with a moss ball and one of those Anubis or whatever plants I heard both are fairly easy to care for. I don't know if I have a green thumb or not. The last time I had a outside garden was about four or five years ago when I was a kid. I had a small strawberry patch of my own and helped my mom with her full grown garden. I tried having a tomatoe plant inside a pot inside the house. It kept growing and growing but no tomatoes so I just let it die off. Right now I have black and a few grey rocks like the ones that are in Blaze's tank in the picture I was thinking of filling in whatever cracks that are left with Blazes old pink, green and blue gravel. I have a small fake green plant and lots of tall plants that are ranging in colors. But thats it. So I would like to know if I need a hiding spot. 

As for the fish. I was thinking 3 guppies or 2 goldfish. And I was originally gonna try (keyword TRY) to see if Blaze would hate me for putting 2 white cloud minnows in with him. But they can always go into the other tank or I have 2 small one gallons from blazes old tanks. Just have to watch my cat with the one gallons. So I got the room to separate them. Of course I'm gonna keep them away from Blaze for a week or two so just so I know they won't give him something. I have to look out for my handsome buddy.

So from highest to least order 3 guppies, 2 mountain minnows (just for the test), 2 goldfish or least is another betta. If they don't have two goldfish that I can tell the difference and they don't have any of the others I could just get another betta. Still atleast hoping they will have the minnows. Sorry long post XD


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

that tomato plant just didnt get to the stage of flowering, thats why it never grew tomatoes hehe ^.^

and dont add the minnows in with your betta, they need different water temps, you cant forget that many species simply cant be stocked together because of their individual requirements

like I said goldfish are a no go, they will kill their selvs in that small of a tank, not to mention that the will massively outgrow the tank (if they ever even get to grow) 

I really dont know how it would be possible to keep a tank parameters in check with no live plants and more then like one fish in that small of a space


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Is this for stocking a 5 gallon tank or is there another tank you have on hand? 

If it's for the five gallon tank, goldfish as already mentioned, are an incredibly poor stocking choice for a tank of this size. When not stunted by small tanks and poor water quality, goldfish grow very quickly, and even the fancy goldfish grow to quite a substantial size. 

White cloud mountain minnows are very active schooling fish. They need to be kept in a group with a minimum of six individuals, and a five gallon tank does not offer them adequate space to move around in. I personally think a 15-20 gallon tank is the minimum for a group of these fish. 

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tanichthys-albonubes/

This is a link from a very reputable site outlining the requirements for keeping WCMM. 

Guppies are probably the best choice out of the three fish species you have listed, to go into a 5 gallon tank. I would think a small group of males should be okay, but I have only had limited experience with these fish.


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

I read that if you keep the temperature at the right spot minnows and bettas can do okay together. And were kind of getting off base from my question XD Do I need a hiding decoration for any of those fish?


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

yes as I had explained in my original post the plants would provide a place to hide, and as someone else had mentioned it would help with agression. so yes they need things to swim/hide in


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

Okay thank you. I'm seriously hoping that they have guppies. I have wanted some for so long. Originally wanted some before I got Blaze but then decided to test to see if I can actually keep a fish alive for a while and well 3 months later I think its time to add on some more responsibility. But seriously if they don't have guppies I might just ask why they don't stock them since their apparently pretty easy to unless you have massive amounts where they breed like bunnies. They might get more business with guppies. I mean they even had a turantula. Not everyone likes spiders x.x More people probably like fish then they do spiders.


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

kjg1029 said:


> that tomato plant just didnt get to the stage of flowering, thats why it never grew tomatoes hehe ^.^
> 
> and dont add the minnows in with your betta, they need different water temps, you cant forget that many species simply cant be stocked together because of their individual requirements
> 
> ...


Also I forgot to mention it did start flowering. But they just fell off without ever getting tomatoes.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

well I take that back then haha ^.^ I only got one tiiiny tomato off of mine, but man do they thrive in a green house, my uncle had a huge geodesic dome green house (its was suppose to be their house but the canopy didnt set right because its so dang windy here) and you should have seen thoose suckers, the plants were taller then me! it was gorgeous, so im guessing the heat/moisture helps a great deal

(sorry just had to share lol)


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

Just not my luck huh XD but I did read some tomato plants just don't bloom in pots. My brothers neighbor planted a bunch in my brothers yard and they had lots of tomatoes but the plants also grew the next year in places that they didn't even get planted near so...


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

kjg1029 said:


> well I take that back then haha ^.^ I only got one tiiiny tomato off of mine, but man do they thrive in a green house, my uncle had a huge geodesic dome green house (its was suppose to be their house but the canopy didnt set right because its so dang windy here) and you should have seen thoose suckers, the plants were taller then me! it was gorgeous, so im guessing the heat/moisture helps a great deal
> 
> (sorry just had to share lol)


Wow! I would have loved to see ones that tall.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The lowest temperature tolerated (72F/73F) by Betta is higher than the highest temperature tolerated by White Clouds (71F). Note I said "tolerated" and not "suggested." At 72F/73F Betta can become lethargic and refuse to eat.


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

Well I don't have a heater and he eats perfectly fine so his waters not that cold. Also grabbing a thermometer this weekend. If they have any.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

If you don't have a thermometer, you have no idea of knowing the exact temperature of his water. 

WCMM definitely do better in cooler water. I believe they are considered as subtropical fish, and being kept in warmer water will shorten their lifespan. 

Anyway, they are definitely not a suitable fish for a five gallon tank in spite of their relatively small size.


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## AccaliaJay (Feb 5, 2015)

I used to have a thermometer is just isn't moving from his old one gallon tank. XD


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