# Dropsy; any possible cures?



## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Housing 
What size is your tank? 10g
What temperature is your tank? 82'F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 3 other female betta fish

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? various - betta flakes, TetraColor flakes, Hikari pellets, bloodworms, Hikari micro pellets
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day

Maintenance 
How often do you perform a water change? once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? about 
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? a little Stress Coat+ and Leaf Zone for the plants

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? No, test strips just ran out when I got back from my trip. Will get more on Tuesday (pet store is not open Monday for family reasons)

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity: 

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? slightly pineconed, colors faded enough to be concernable
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? clamped tail, lethargic and not active, eats very rarely and very little, not interested in other fish or anything outside the tank
When did you start noticing the symptoms? the 26th, didn't know it was dropsy until just a few hours ago but I treated her in Betta Revive from then on until I could diagnose her properly
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Betta Revive, upped temp to 84'F... she's in a mini tank (the things that pet stores have (to catch/transfer fish) that can hang from the edge into the water) with the medicine
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? 8 months, soon 9


As a note, I had been gone for three weeks. It's possible she got dropsy because the caretaker didn't do water changes to the larger tanks. I read that it's curable, but after researching a bit, I'm confused as to what's the best way to cure it. Avalantic's like my second Leliia in that their personalities are alike. I'd preferably like to keep her longer than the short almost 9 months she's been alive, as she's also the girl I wanted to breed.

She is one of two fish I've ever had who got dropsy. The other fish was an old guppy, who had it because of this same trip. She died two days ago.

Also, anything I need to cure her that I don't have, the pet store won't be open until Tuesday. Unless I happen to go to the town with the other stores (about an hour or so drive away), I can't get anything new. Anything to help her until then would be great, too.

Pictures will come soon.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

I also should note that there are only three other (four in total) because the fifth died fromsome kind of fungus that formed in a wound on her mouth. I treated her up until the time I had to leave for my trip, but from then on, it was the caretaker's responsibility.


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## Creat (Dec 6, 2010)

I had a female who lasted 2-3 weeks with dropsy with maracyn II and epsom salt... also daily water changes as well as keeping the water heated... true dropsy is impossible to cure sometimes the fish if the problem isnt fully fledged can get over it


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Usually once the symptom of dropsy shows up-the fish is going into system shut down....since dropsy is a symptom and not a disease itself....it has many causes...some that can be cured and other that can't if caught early enough....the biggest cause is related to water quality that causes stress that in turn compromised the immune response......this sets the fish up to catch anything.......

To treat the symptoms of dropsy....use Epsom salt 3tsp/gal, tannins-along with daily 100% water changes, dim lit area in small QT container-temp 76F area....

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water add the Epsom salt, tannins-either IAL or Oak leaf-let this steep for 30min-1hr to release tannins and salt to dissolve-shake well before use and use this water for the 100% daily water changes for 10-14 days or longer if needed.....

As I posted earlier.....usually once they pine-cone they are in system shut down and the outcome is often grim......but don't give up.......

Good luck and keep us posted.....


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for this, Creat.

My grandfather's fish kept getting dropsy, but I knew it was because water changes weren't done as often as they should've. I took the liberty of helping him out myself, a few times, but I should've known he wouldn't have the time to do it for my fish. At the least, I'm happy he cared for them as well as he could.

I have maracyn II, but unless my granpa got Epsom salt way back when I recommended it for some other disease, I don't think we have any. Is the Maracyn II it enough until Tuesday, or is there anything else I could use to last her?


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Oldfishlady said:


> Usually once the symptom of dropsy shows up-the fish is going into system shut down....since dropsy is a symptom and not a disease itself....it has many causes...some that can be cured and other that can't if caught early enough....the biggest cause is related to water quality that causes stress that in turn compromised the immune response......this sets the fish up to catch anything.......
> 
> To treat the symptoms of dropsy....use Epsom salt 3tsp/gal, tannins-along with daily 100% water changes, dim lit area in small QT container-temp 76F area....
> 
> ...


Thanks OFL. Again, we haven't ever had any luck curing dropsy, but now that it's my fish that has it, I want to try my best for her.

I have water set aside already, I'll add IAL for the tannins and add Epsom as soon as I can get it.

I hoped that with as slight as the pineconing is right now, maybe she'd have a bit more of a chance. She doesn't look too unnaturally fat/bloated like I saw with the others... not yet anyway.

I appreciate all the help.


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## Thunderloon (Feb 6, 2011)

Dropsy is bad bad, its related to a failing kidney and adding chemicals to the water of a fish with a failing kidney is often just more fail.

Best option is purified water that hasn't had anything put back in, like true distilled water. You can check for this with a pH test, absolutely pure water is around pH of 5.0.

I've had two that went by way of dropsy, I kept one alive for three months fighting onsets of sub-dermal fluids including a fine pin lancing. Neither one of us had a good time and he gave up first. Timid was afraid of his own reflection.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Thunderloon, that's an interesting thing to note. There's barely anything online about dropsy as it is. I've also never seen any books on it... I could also be looking in the wrong places and at the wrong sites. Hearing (or rather, reading) that it's related to kidney failure is news to me.

My local pet store I work at has rodi water. I really doubt they'd mind me taking some home with me, and I need more test strips anyway, so I'll test it to make sure.

I'm not so sure how well I'd do the pin-lancing... I don't trust myself to handle that well, so I'll likely not.

Just by way of curiosity and testing sources, where'd you find this out about kidney failure?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Hey I just wanted to let you know that with a fairly strong dose of betta revive - only a few dollars at petco - with aq salt and shallow water saved one of my boys with dropsy, I was probably lucky, but I just wanted to let you know.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, good luck..


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

@GreenTea, I had her in a double-dose of BR before I saw any obvious dropsy. Betta Revive, some of the best quick medicine I've ever had. I've got like... five fishes of those left. >___> You might've been lucky, though. My granpa's fish were the ones who've always gotten that symptom and with a few he's given them a rather heavy dosage... still no luck, but he might've caught it too late anyway. Who knows... 

No offense to anyone, and I do appreciate the help immensely. I'll try OFL's advice firstly, though I'll probably mix it with Thunderloons, what with the pure water. Whether the kidney thing is true or not, it makes sense to have the purest water.

I remembered around noon that it's Monday. Thank goodness for that... I never thought I'd love Mondays as much until then, because that means she only has to wait one more day instead of the two I thought initially.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry I'm not of more help. Good luck to you both, I'll send positive vibes. You're doing all you can.


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Heh... thanks. And you were helping, GreenTea. I hope I do everything I can, and the pet store opens in an hour... I might go there a bit earlier though...

Edit: I just checked up on her. The pineconing seems very slightly worse this morning... which I'm going to take as a neutral sign. Though she is getting worse, most of the other fish I've seen with slight pineconing got much worse by the next morning. So at least it's slowing down.


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## CrowntailTwitchy57 (Jun 25, 2011)

i think once the scales start pineconing it's too late...


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## Oldfishlady (Mar 1, 2010)

Dropsy is a symptom not a disease......it can have many causes...usually it is due to bacteria that affect the kidney function that in turn cause a build up of fluid-this fluid build up cause the fish to swell and the scale will start to stick out...pine-conning......usually this is a gram negative bacteria Aeromonas and along with it comes poor osmoregulation and with kidney failure- they have poor ability to regulate electrolytes and why they need trace elements in the water-calcium, magnesium to support osmotic function.....

This is why it is important to not use too pure water-distilled lack dissolved oxygen, trace and electrolyte and R/O/DI water lacks trace element and electrolytes....also at this stage of the game you don't want the added stress of changing the KH/GH and pH.....

Sadly, once you see the symptom of dropsy-recovery is grim...often this is a sign of system shut down-kidney failure.....you don't want to give up too soon...but you also don't want the fish to suffer........


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Augh, of course I can't find my car keys....

OFL, that makes sense, then. I'm a little desprate to get her back to at least a little good health, so I didn't think of the trace elements... would it be wrong to mix rodi water with the distilled water I have?

It's true I don't want her to suffer, but I'd really hate to lose her. Just feels way too soon to me....


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## BlakbirdxGyarados (Feb 10, 2011)

Well... as much as I hate to move her as it is, I got her in purer water. No Betta Revive or anything like that, just Epsom salt and distilled-rodi-mixed water. (I don't know the exact ratio difference between teh two waters I mixed, but I added about a quarter of rodi water I brought home in it.) She's still swimming when I wave at her, but stays very close to the top... and stays still when I'm just sitting there by her or not around. I check on her every now and then and she does move from one place to another, but usually not that far from her previous spot.


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