# Nano Fish - Bring it on



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I've moved this continuing discussion about Nano Fish to the area for all to enjoy. Conversation started in the last 2 pages of this thread in Betta Care:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=372530&page=5

Originally posted by BWG:



> I'm not going to distinguish between easy/hard fish. The profiles typically speak for themselves. Same with tank size. Right now this is just to show you all the options in small (from really tiny to just small)fish there are. Some while small, do require tanks of at least 24". I'm also only listing fish I've seen for sale (usually online).
> 
> Boraras sp.-Start off with my faves. I keep B. naevus and B. brigittae. B. micros is never seen for sale, at least that I've seen.
> Microdevario sp.
> ...


Originally posted by thekoimaiden:



> Hahaha! And he's not kidding! He can pump out another list just as large as that if you ask! I'm surprised you left out the dwarf pangio!


Originally posted by jentralala:



> What about Least Killifish? They do well in soft water (I caught mine in water that had a ph of around 6.2! With incredibly low gh and kh.), are absolutely adorable, personable, and are also livebearers.
> 
> In journal thread (http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...-358858/page5/) you can see a few pictures I have of them.
> 
> They're my first nano-fish, I have them in a ten gallon. The males are around half an inch, the females around an inch. Smallest native fish in North America!


----------



## n25philly (Dec 5, 2013)

Ok, it's been brought. I'm not taking credit for this, I downloaded this list off of another site some time ago. Unfortunately I don't remember the site so I can't credit the people that did the work on it, so if anyone recognizes it please credit the people for me. If there is anything missing or wrong information it's not my fault. I did recreate this because the original format wouldn't post right, so if there are spelling mistakes those are probably mine.

Enjoy!

Part 1

Common Name​ “Proper Name”​ Adult Length​ Minimum #​ Dwarf Gold Barb​ Barbus Gelius​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Jae Barb​ Barbus Jae​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ Shoaling/5min​ Platinum Barb​ Horadandia atukorali​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Lipstick Barb​ Puntius erythromycter​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Dwarf Red Betta​ Betta Coccina​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Siamese Fighting Fish​ Betta Splendens Aspidoras​ 7.0cm/2.8”​ ​ False Cory​ Pauciradiatus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Mini Moth Catfish​ Hara Jerdoni​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ 3min​ Shadow Catfish​ Flavus Hyalobagrus​ 4.4cm/1.8”​ Shoaling/4min​ Otocinclus​ Otocinclus Affinis​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ 3min​ Hummingbird Catfish​ Rama Chandramara​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ 3-4min​ Dwarf Flag Cichlid​ Laetacara Curviceps​ 4.5cm/1.75”​ Bonded Pairs​ Brevis Shell-Dweller​ Neolamprologus Brevis​ 5.5cm/2.25”​ Bonded Pair​ Multi-Lined Chiclids​ Neolamprologus Multifasciatus​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ Shoaling/5min​ Similis Chichlid​ Neolamprologus Similis​ 6.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Salt & Pepper Cory​ Corydoras Habrosus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Dwarf Cory​ Corydoras Hastatus​ 2.5cm/1.0”​ Shoaling/5min​ Pygmy Cory​ Corydoras Pygmaeus​ 2.1cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Dadio​ Laubuca dadiburior​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Pearl Danio​ Danio Albolineatus​ 6.5cm/2.5”​ ​ Celestial Pearl Danio​ Danio Margaritatus​ 2.1cm/.75”​ 3min​ Dwarf Danio​ Danio Nigrofasciatus​ 3.7cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Zebra Danio​ Danio Rerio​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ Shoaling/5min​ Scarlet Badis​ Dario Dario​ 2.0cm/.75”​ 2min​ Rainbow Darters​ Etheostoma caeruleum​ 7.7cm/3.0”​ ​ Least Darters​ Etheostoma Microperca​ 4.4cm/1.8”​ ​ Schooling Bumblebee Goby​ Brachygobius Aggregatus​ 1.5cm/.50”​ 3min​ Bumblebee Goby​ Brachygobius Nunus​ 2.5cm/1.0”​ ​ Burmese Bumblebee Goby​ Brachygobius Xanthomelas​ 2.0cm/.75”​ ​ Red Licorice Gourami​ Parosphromenus Sumatranus​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ One Pair/Tank​ Honey Gourami​ Trichogaster Chuna​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ ​ Pygmy Gourami​ Trichopsis Pulmila​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Peacock Gudgeons​ Tateurndina Ocellicauda​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ One Pair/Tank​ Black-Winged Hatchetfish​ Carnegiella Marthae​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Pygmy Hatchetfish​ Carnegiella Myersi​ 2.2cm/.80”​ Shoaling/5min​ Marbled Hatchetfish​ Carnegiella Strigata​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Allotoca Zacapuensis​ Allotoca Zacapuensis​ 3.3cm/1.3”​ ​ Dubois’ Panchex​ Aphyoplatys Duboisi​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Golden Lyretail​ Aphyosemion Australe​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Two Stripe Lyretail​ Aphyosemion Bivittatum​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ ​ Two Stripe Aphyosemion​ Aphyosemion Bicittatum​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ ​ Norman’s Lampeye​ Aplocheilichthys Normani​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Swordfin Killifish​ Campellolebias Brucei​ 4.5cm/1.75”​ ​


----------



## n25philly (Dec 5, 2013)

Great, it's screwing up the formatting...

Part 2

Swampfish​ Chologaster Cornuta​ 6.6cm/2.9”​ ​ Blue Lampeye Killifish​ Congopanchax Brichardi​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ 5min​ Gabon Jewelfish​ Diapteron Cyanostictum​ 6.5cm/2.5”​ ​ Chevalier Killi​ Epiplatys Chevalieri​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Red Chin Panchex​ Epiplatys Degeti​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Killifish Foerschichthys​ Foerschichthys Flavipinnus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Starhead Topminnow​ Fundulus Dispar​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Yucatan Flagfish​ Garmanella Pulchra​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ 2 to 4 adults​ Dwarf Mosquitofish​ Heterandria Formosa​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ 2 to 4 adults​ Pygmy Killi​ Leptolucania Ommata​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ 1 adult​ Bluefin Killi​ Lucania Goodei​ 6.0cm/2.4”​ ​ Catarina Pupfish​ Megupsilon Aporus​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Nile Killifish​ Micropanchax Loati​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Aphyosemion Seymouri​ Nothobranchius Kiyawensis​ 4.5cm/1.75”​ ​ Japanese Killifish​ Oryzias Latipes​ 3.2cm/1.25”​ ​ East Coast Lampeyes​ Pantanodon Stuhlmanni​ 5.0cm/2.0”​ ​ Clown Killi​ Pseudepiplatys Annulatus​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Saberfin Killifish​ Terranatos​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Killifish Tomeurus​ Tomeurus Gracilis​ 3.3cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Barred Livebearer​ Carlhubbsia Stuarti​ 3.2cm/1.25”​ ​ Carnegie’s Millionsfish​ Cnesterodon Carnegiei​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ ​ Big Bend Gambusia​ Gambusia Gaigei​ 5.4cm/2.20”​ ​ Teardrop Mosquitofish​ Gambusia Sexradiata​ 2.6cm/1.0”​ ​ Grand Cayman Limia​ Limia Caymanensis​ 2.8cm/1.10”​ ​ Tiburon Peninsula Limia​ Limia dominicensis​ 2.6cm/1.0”​ ​ Sulphur Limia​ Limia Sulphurophila​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ ​ Swamp Guppy​ Micropoecilia Picta​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ 4min​ Tiger Teddy​ Neoheterandria Elegans​ 3.8/1.4”​ ​ Picotee Livebearer​ Phallichthys Fairweateri​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ ​ Four-Spot​ Phallichthys Quaddripunctatus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Pallid Widow​ Phallichthys Tico​ 2.5cm/1.0”​ ​ Dusky Millions Fish​ Phalloceros Caudimaculatus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Branner’s Livebearer​ Poecilia Wingei​ 2.0cm/.75”​ ​ Guppy​ Poecilia Reticulata​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Endler’s Livebearer​ Poecilia Wingei​ 2.0cm/.75”​ ​ Blackstripe Livebearer​ Poecilia Prolifica​ 2.5cm/1.0”​ ​ Burma Yellow Neon Rasb​ Microdevario Kubotai​ 2.0cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Microrasbora Nana​ Microdevario Nanus​ 1.5cm/.50”​ Shoaling/5min​ Barboides Gracilis​ Barboides Gravilis​ 1.8cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Barbus Sylvaticus​ Barbus Sylvaticus​ 1.9cm/.75”​ ​ Barred Topminnow​ Quintana Atrizona​ 3.4cm/1.45”​ ​ White Cloud Mountain Minnow​ Tanichthys Albonubes​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Vietnamese Minnow​ Tanichthys Micagemmae​ 2.3cm/.90​ Shoaling/5min​ Cauca Molly​ Poecilia Caucana​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ ​ Dwarf Molly​ Poecilia Chica​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ ​


----------



## n25philly (Dec 5, 2013)

Dwarf Pencilfish​ Nannostomus Marginatus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Monterrey Platyfish​ Xiphophorus Gordoni​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Northern Platyfish​ Xiphophorus Maculatus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Southern Platy​ Xiphophorus maculatus​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Catemaco Playfish​ Xiphophorus Milleri​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ ​ Pygmy Swordtail​ Xiphophorus Pygmaeus​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Swordtail Platyfish​ Xiphophorus Xiphidium​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Dwarf Puffer​ Carinotetraodon Travancoricus​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ ​ Threadfin Rainbow​ Iriatherina Wemeri​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Gertrude’s Rainbow​ Pseudomugil Gertrudae​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ ​ Mosquito Resbora​ Boraras Brigittae​ 3.8cm/1.4”​ Shoaling/5min​ Dwarf Rasbora​ Boraras Maculatus​ 1.3cm/.7”​ Shoaling/5min​ Phoenix Rasboras​ Boraras Merah​ 2.0cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Rasbora Micro​ Boraras Micros​ 1.3cm/.7”​ Shoaling/5min​ Least Rasbora​ Boraras Urophthalmoides​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Emerald Dwarf Rasbora​ Microrasbora Erythromicron​ 2.0cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Asian Cardinal Rasbora​ Microrasbora Rubescens​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Blackline Rasbora​ Rasbora Boraptetensis​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Emerald Eye Rasbora​ Rasbora Dorsiocellata macrophthaln​ 3.5cm/1.3”​ Shoaling/5min​ Neon Rasbora​ Sundadanio Axelrodi​ 2.3cm/.90”​ Shoaling/5min​ Cherry Spot Rasbora​ Rasbora Rubrodorsalis​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ ​ Everglade Pygmy Sunfish​ Elassoma Evergladei​ 3.4cm/1.40”​ Colony​ Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish​ Elassoma Okefenokee​ 3.4cm/1.40”​ Colony​ Banded Pygmy Sunfish​ Elassoma Zonatum​ 4.7cm/1.80”​ Colony​ Green Fire Tetra​ Aphyocharaz Rathbuni​ 2.7cm/1.06”​ Shoaling/5min​ Ruby Tetra​ Axelrodia Riesei​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Silvertip Tetra​ Hasekmania Nana​ 2.7cm/1.06”​ Shoaling/5min​ Glow Light Tetra​ Hemigrammus Erythrozonus​ 3.3cm/1.30”​ Shoaling/5min​ Ember Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Amandae​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Serpae Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Eques​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Flame Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Flammeus​ 2.5cm/1.0”​ Shoaling/5min​ Black Neon Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Herbertaxelrodi​ 3.2cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Flag Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Heterorhabdus​ 3.3cm/1.30”​ Shoaling/5min​ Black Phantom Tetra​ Hyphessobrycon Megalopterus​ 3.6cm/1.48”​ Shoaling/5min​ Red-Tailed Phantom Tetra​ Hyphessbrycon Roseus​ 1.9cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Red Phantom Tetra​ Hyphessbrycon Sweglesi​ 3.2cm/1.26”​ Shoaling/5min​ Coffeebean Tetra​ Hyphessbrycon Takasei​ 3.0cm/1.25”​ Shoaling/5min​ Jellybean Tetra​ Ladigesia Roloffi​ 4.0cm/1.6”​ Shoaling/5min​ Adonis Tetra​ Lepidarchus Adonis​ 2.1cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Dwarf Pencilfish​ Neolebias Ansorgii​ 2.6cm/1.0”​ Shoaling/5min​ Neon Tetra​ Paracheirodon Innesi​ 2.2cm/.80”​ Shoaling/5min​ Green Neon Tetra​ Paracheirodon Simulans​ 2.0cm/.75”​ Shoaling/5min​ Blackline Penguinfish​ Thayeria Boehlkei​ 3.2cm/1.26”​ Shoaling/5min​


----------



## n25philly (Dec 5, 2013)

It's supposed to be common name/real name/size/needs (group size if applicable) I hope everyone can make it out


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

n25philly said:


> It's supposed to be common name/real name/size/needs (group size if applicable) I hope everyone can make it out


That's a great list and the formatting is decipherable. Thanks for the posts.


----------



## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Interesting list. On the one hand there is quite a few species that aren't well known so whoever made it did some research. On the other hand some of the sizes are just plain wrong with some being listed as too small and some too large (quick examples of what I mean. Boraras urophthalmoides is one of the smallest species in the genus and gets about .6 inches, not 1.6 inches. Silvertip tetras get much closer to two inches than 1 inch) plus some kind of make me wonder based on size (3 inch fish to me are not nano or else I think all of use would own nano fish). Not sure if the author meant nano fish or fish for smaller tanks (maybe 20 gallons or less). 

I say we make our own comprehensive list, if anyone wants to. Let other people find our awesomeness and share it, because I think we could do better!


----------



## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

> I say we make our own comprehensive list, if anyone wants to. Let other people find our awesomeness and share it, because I think we could do better!


I think if we were to make our own comprehensive list (which would be awesome), we need to have a definite definition of a nano fish for the purpose of the list. 

Fish 1 inch or less? Fish that can live in five or less gallons?...


----------



## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

I completely agree on a definition being a good idea. I personally use about 30 mm (1.2 inches) as my definition. Not all the fish that fall in that range are suitable to a 5 or even 10 gallon aquarium due to activity level or aggression. On the other hand there are species above that length that are perfectly fine in an aquarium that size (Betta splendens seems the perfect example as are many other Betta species). So to me at least the fish length and aquarium definitions are for two separate things: Nano fish and Fish for nano aquariums. Not sure which will be of more use.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Interesting way of putting it. Fish first or environment first. 

I think alot of people (like me) start out getting the aquarium, then look to stock it afterwards. Then with some experience, the focus shifts the other way. Pick the fish, then get the aquarium to house them.

Maybe the list should be organized into categories by tank size needed. Gives options for both tank first and fish first buyers.

As for me, I found a front runner. Sundadanio Axelrodi. Love the size (.8"), love the color (a beautiful iridescent green all over), and the environment (about as blackwater as it gets with sand, leaves, timy grasses, lots of branchy driftwood, and surface plants to filter the light). Love the challenge this one presents.

There is something that occurred to me, though, for a very acidic environment like this one. If nitrifying bacteria in the filter stop processing ammonia at PH 6 and below, how does the ammonia get processed into nitrites?


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Nano fish are so fun and cute. I have my cute tiny little okefenokee Pygmy sunfish and I LOVE them. They seem to be done growing at 1" max. The littler ones no bigger then my pinky fingernail . 
I am thinking of making my 46 a large nano tank as well now . All the fish I could pack in there ❤
I too find the challenge to be a large part of the fun. Seems like really most of the challenge of many nano fish is their resistance of prepared foods . 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I've been doing alot of research on how to cultivate different types of goodies for them. I'll have to get a dedicated area to keep my dad from accidentally smearing some on his triscuits 

A 46 Gallon tank with nothing but Nano's would be awesome.

I was also thinking that I don't know the fish. Very new to me; however, what I can do is organize the master list. Send me the info and I will format it into a comprehensive list. I have the time and would like to contribute.


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

Eww.. Microworms on a triscuit. Lol

I have a closet already used for my reptile supplies so I added the fish stuff in there. All types of live foods in that closet . It's a lot more work but I find it rewarding. Gut loading more then insects for dragons ... Now doing it for feeeshies too . 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Agent13 said:


> Eww.. Microworms on a triscuit. Lol
> 
> I have a closet already used for my reptile supplies so I added the fish stuff in there. All types of live foods in that closet . It's a lot more work but I find it rewarding. Gut loading more then insects for dragons ... Now doing it for feeeshies too .


Out of curiosity and reference, what live foods do you raise?


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

White worms , microworms , grindal worms , daphnia( moina & magna) and brine shrimp . Well green water too but I use that to feed some of the cultures . 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Agent13 said:


> White worms , microworms , grindal worms , daphnia and brine shrimp . Well green water too but I use that to feed some of the cultures .
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Ooooo... Nice selection. Brine shrimp I know well. I've read you need a starter culture for white, micro and grindal worms. Not sure about daphnia.

My betta would call me "Daddy if I could give him all of those.


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I ordered a butt ton of daphnia and now I feed them and let them multiply . 
If my fish could talk I expect them to call me their queen with all the effort and money I put in them lol


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Though I am not new to the hobby, I am putting more into it than I ever did before. I have plans to set up those cultures myself given that many species I have looked at, such as certain nano fish, are caught in the wild, or just plain prefer the live foods.

I'll have to pick your brain sometime when I am getting the cultures started.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

rpadgett37 said:


> Interesting way of putting it. Fish first or environment first.
> 
> I think alot of people (like me) start out getting the aquarium, then look to stock it afterwards. Then with some experience, the focus shifts the other way. Pick the fish, then get the aquarium to house them.
> 
> ...


I've seen them in person. Very stunning fish even if they are extremely small. 

Also to answer your question about ammonia/nitrites, I keep all my tanks at a very low pH for my wilds. I would guess they are probably in the 5-5.5 range, maybe lower. My KH is also basically non-existent.

Because of this, none of my tanks are cycled. However, I never get any ammonia readings even though most of my tanks are moderately stocked, in the 5-10 gallon range and only get a very small water change once a week. This is because I have duckweed, hornwort and watersprite in all my tanks to take care of the ammonia. I find in my tanks, the plants take over the role of the filter and ensure that my parameters stay within safe range for my fish. 

I am certainly not very knowledgeable on the scientific side of the hobby, but I believe if you don't have the bacteria there to process the ammonia into nitrites, you are not going to get reading for nitrites. I certainly have never gotten any readings for it in my uncycled tanks. 

However, this means that the ammonia continues to build up and this is why I use live plants in all of my set-ups. 

I love nano fish. I've owned celestial pearl danios, numerous pseudomugil species, microdevario kubotai, clown killifish and oryzias woworae. I had a 46cm cube full of small schooling fish and it was a very nice tank to look at with all the activity going on.

Also live cultures are so easy. I culture microworms, soil-less grindals and whiteworms. I have cultured vinegar eels in the past and also regularly hatch BBS for my fry. These small fish thrive on live foods. Grindals and BBS were a particular favourite.


----------



## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I believe that once the water is below 7.0pH ammonia is converted in to the less toxic ammonium...


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I've seen them in person. Very stunning fish even if they are extremely small.
> 
> Also to answer your question about ammonia/nitrites, I keep all my tanks at a very low pH for my wilds. I would guess they are probably in the 5-5.5 range, maybe lower. My KH is also basically non-existent.
> 
> ...


That is some wonderful information. You are the guy I have been hoping to run into (because of your experience with this kind of setup). I will have some more questions for you tomorrow. Really good anime on right now 

And MattsBettas, I knew about ammonium and ammonia, but never ran across anything regarding when one takes over the other and the like. Haven't really looked, though. Been on a mission to find out about black water environments. More really good information  I'll be looking for this tomorrow.


----------



## Agent13 (Apr 23, 2013)

I think the point that ammonia turns to ammonium is more like 6.5ph . It that or 0.1 degree one way or the other .. Not much more .


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Thanks Agent, I stand corrected! I knew it was somewhere around there.


----------



## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Right now I keep Boraras naevus, Boraras brigittae, Trigonostigma hengeli, Trigonostigma espei, Pangio cuneovirgata, and Micronemacheilus cruciatus. Until recently I also had Dario hysginon and Hyphessobrycon heliacus. Why I redo my tanks I absolutely plan to get Sundadanio axelrodi (or whatever the blue species really is in the hobby) since I think they are going to look stunning in the same tank as the B. brigittae.

My 29 gallon tank is different than LittleBettaFish's since I get ammonia readings. My tapwater is always around 6.0-6.2 plus that tank has pressurized CO2 so has to be a bit lower. Since it's high tech I add KNO3 which is nitrates. The plants use them more readily than ammonia. So I always have some ammonia reading if I test. It never goes up though with 50% weekly water changes. The fish are all fine since it is actually the much safer ammonium. I've tried to be rid of it with no luck, so I just accept that I will have a reading that would scare the beejuzes out of me if I had anyone else's water.

They do sell test to measure total and free ammonia. Those are what you can use to tell you how much of your ammonia is actually ammonium.


----------



## amphirion (Jan 15, 2014)

has anybody taken a look at plantedtank.net's nano-fish list? it's pretty extensive, worth checking out: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31095


----------



## BWG (Oct 11, 2011)

Shhhh....cat's out of the bag now 

That's where n25philly got the earlier posted list from. They used 1.8" as their nano (?) definition plus threw in some that are capable of living in nano tanks. Even with that definition (and the wrong sizes) they missed some. For instance they omitted cardinal tetras, rosy tetras, ornate tetras, etc. Strange how they got so many extremely rare ones but missed a lot of common species that fit their definition.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

I going to ask a few questions here. I know what a black water environment what the water parameters look like (generally speaking), and what makes it that way; however, that's just an understanding of the pieces involved. What I don't know is how to put all the pieces together to recreate that environment in an aquarium.

I've read what has been posted above so forgive me if I ask about something that's already been covered. Going step by step will make it clear in my mind. Please feel free to chime in as each of you (and I suspect others) has the knowledge and experience I seek to learn from.

What do you use to create the blackwater?

I am using RO for this project. With this starting point of PH 7, KH 0, GH 0, what do you use set the proper water parameters? 

With the kh bottomed out like this, I am assuming adding anything acidic to the water will cause the PH to drop like a stone, but I am also assuming that at some point it will stabilize.

While the aquarium is up and running, does that low of an un-buffered PH remain stable?

Are the minerals in soft, blackwater environments different than the minerals you will find in non-blackwater environments? (I ask as there are products that re-mineralize to soft, acidic environments).

What do you use to sustain the blackwater conditions when it is up and running?

How do you prep the replacement water to match aquarium conditions?

LittleBetaFish, and anyone, what is your stocking level for a given size tank?

Do you use any equipment in the tank aside from a heater?

Does algae ever become an issue?

Ammonia and Ammonium is a different animal for me. When I said I know about it, that just means I know they both exist in an ammonia measurement using a standardized test, that a high ammonia reading doesn't necessarily mean the the toxic ammonia is actually at dangerous levels or even present. I have a chart that shows even a measured concentration of 5ppm at PH 6 is all ammonium.

I don't understand how this works? Is it something to do with the bacteria and how they work at lower PH levels, or does a different type of bacteria take over? Or does the ammonia by product just get broken down into ammonium automatically?

Kid in a candy store so bear with me. I think that covers it for now.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Like I said, I am not someone who is going to be able to provide an in-depth analysis of a blackwater system and all that it entails as I have only a rudimentary knowledge. 

Melbourne water is known for being very soft. I think mine comes out of the tap with a pH of around 7 has a very low KH value. Therefore, the pH tends to drop rather dramatically (it gets to at least 6 based on my API test kit) if you leave it out overnight. This did cause trouble when I kept splendens in smaller, uncycled tanks because the frequent water changes were causing constant swings in pH from high to low. In the end I started using a product like Seachem Neutral Regulator to provide some stability. 

I used to do water changes directly from the tap for my wild bettas. However, nowadays I have a couple of tubs that I age my water in. I have heaters and filters in these tubs, and add in IAL and rooibos tea bags to not only tint the water, but also to help further lower the pH. 

In the tanks, I use ADA Malaya substrate as that is useful for keeping the pH low. IALs are left in my tanks until they start to break down, and I will also put in a couple of rooibos tea bags if I feel the colour of the water is not dark enough. I also use peat moss in several of my tanks and in the past actually used it as a substrate. 

Algae for me, is a fact of life. My focus is firstly and foremost on my fish. My tanks are never going to win any awards for beauty. There is algae, there is bio-film, and there are lots of micro-organisms floating around. Most of my algae is probably caused by high lighting, but as long as my front glass is clean, I don't really care all that much. 

I only do very small water changes once a week. Normally I change out about 2L of water, but in my bigger tanks I will change out maybe 5-7L. I'm not sure about swings in pH or hardness as I don't have anything available to test these. However, I almost always have fry in my tanks, and I figure if the pH was swinging erratically from high to low or vice versa, they would be showing signs of stress - particularly the very young ones. I'm assuming my pH must stabilise at some point because there must be only so far it can drop. I figure with the aged water and smaller water changes, there's going to less swings in pH/harness levels than when I was using straight tap water. 

My stocking varies. Most of my tanks are 7 gallons but I keep the water level low making them only 4-5 gallons in volume. Usually I start with a breeding pair, and then as they spawn and their fry start maturing I end up with around 15-20 fish of various ages. I do have some siblings from previous spawns that are adults now and live together. I have a 12 gallon long and that holds about 20 fish, and then I have a 15 gallon long that holds about the same amount. 

My wild bettas are smaller than domestic stock, and I find they don't have a huge bioload. In my tanks there seems to be an equilibrium between plants and fish. This is why I wanted duckweed, hornwort and watersprite. They are incredibly fast growing, and absolute nutrient hogs. They don't seem to have any issues dealing with the ammonia produced by my fish. 

Hope that helps answer at least some of your questions. Like I said, my focus is predominately on the fish side of hobby, not the chemistry side, so I can't help answer some of the more 'sciencey' questions.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

lol... sorry. I didn't mean for all of that to be directed at you. I appreciate your reply. Very helpful.


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

For the black water

Sundadanio Axelrodi looks like a winner. Didn't find anything else from the list as beautiful as this little fish. Axelrodia Sp (Ruby Tetra) is another that I had liked before. I could house these two together as their natural environment is the same. Their colors would compliment each other I think... little green and little red streaks in the water.

For a non-black water, Here's my favorites.

Celestial Pearl Danios. Absolutely gorgeous. They recommend keeping them in groups of 20, though. Definitely like the Dario Rajal and Scarlet Badis. Either would seem to work well with the PCD. I'd also very much like to keep either pygmy or dwarf corries.

I wonder if my tank will be sufficient, though. It has the length but the depth is a couple of inches too short (11.1" suggested. Mine is at 9.5").


----------



## rpadgett37 (Jan 1, 2014)

Here is the future nano black water tank.


----------

