# Please help... Tina jumped out of her tank...



## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Somehow she jumped out of a tiny gap in her tank lid, dropped about three feet, and landed on the carpet. We found her about three minutes after we heard the strange noise that alerted us (we searched her tank first). We had heard a strange noise first, about 10 minutes prior (her trying to jump out a first time?)... We added slime-coat and stress-zyme to the water, and lowered her water level... Is there anything else we can do? -_-;


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She has what looks like pulled up scales on her head... Possibly tore her top fin a bit.. And she's not really moving one of her side fins. She's clamped to hell, but she's still flitting one of her side fins... The other one, she can move, but isn't really... She's just holding it against her body. We're taking a water sample now...


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

ive heard of betta surviving over 15 minutes on the carpet. if she wasn't to dried out she should recover. these are tough fish. your add of stress coat and stress zyme is perfect. She should be recovered in a couple days wow that must have scared you! You really are doing all you can. keep the tank dark for awhile it lowers stress. Let me know how it goes, good luck xnoodle. cheering for tina!!



XxxXnoodleXxxX said:


> Somehow she jumped out of a tiny gap in her tank lid, dropped about three feet, and landed on the carpet. We found her about three minutes after we heard the strange noise that alerted us (we searched her tank first). We had heard a strange noise first, about 10 minutes prior (her trying to jump out a first time?)... We added slime-coat and stress-zyme to the water, and lowered her water level... Is there anything else we can do? -_-;


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I just hope her injuries, as I put in my second post, aren't too serious... -_-; 
And yeah my heart almost stopped when I realized she literally wasn't in the tank.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah you wont know the extent of the injuries for a day or two likely. At least it wasn't too long on the floor and it was carpet not hard wood. however she may have torn fins and scales while flopping on the carpet. Hopefully just minor wounds and a full recovery for her.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

she may have hit her head or fin on either the cabinet her tank is on or a couple things on the floor next to where we found her (we heard a thunk noise)... She's moving her side fin a bit more, and she's a little less clamped. Her top fin is definitely torn up a bit. And she seems a little dazed.  Can fish get concussions? Water tests came back fine.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

The fact she is moving the fin at all is good as no major structural damage is likely if its moving. She is also in a state of shock that should wear off. So glad you heard the noise.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

No kidding. Pays to stay up late I suppose. We covered her tank a bit more (making sure she still has plenty of air flow) just in case she tries to act out a scene from Top Gun again. >_<


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## jadaBlu (Feb 14, 2013)

Sorry to hear about Tina. I've seen other people's fish survive this. Hopefully she will eating out of your hand in no time. I bought tulle netting like this:
*http://www.metroparent.com/Blogs/Ma...r-Jar-Crafts/BugNetandNatureCatcherCrafts.jpg

*I put it over the top of my tank. I still have a partial cover plus a light but my tank is planted and the condensation was blocking out light so I use this stuff to make sure they stay put. I have not gotten around to it yet but I plan to take some elasticized string and thread it through the tulle so it snugly goes around sides.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I've had two fish survive from jumping, only one didn't but he was out for about an hour or so. She should be fine.

I use Saranwrap or some sort of cellophane wrap to cover holes, helps to keep heat in as well


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She ate this morning and is swimming with her bummed fin. Still seems in shock though, and she's quite pale for such a vibrant fishie.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, she'll be like that for a few day's. It takes a while for it to wear off. Just think about how you'd feel if you feel from the equal distance that she did....well actually, you probably wouldn't be alive >.< nvm >.< but either way! it could take her a week or so to fully get her color back but she will


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I sure hope so! <3


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

-sigh- Looks like we're not out of the woods yet... She was pretty unresponsive this morning when I got up, and she won't eat at all... Bloody hell...


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Well this is not good. There is a possibility she has internal injury. This would be difficult and far beyond my realm to advise. It also could be the stress and fin injury has upset the internal balance of bacteria. I would do a 50% water change with 1 tsp Epson salt per gallon, add an almond leaf and keep her tank dark. Wish I had better advise my friend. Hopefully someone here can help more.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Her side fin is fine now. But she's still super chubby. We did a water change the day it happened, so I don't know if another one would just stress he rout more. >_< I'll add some epsom salts, though her tank is already tanned, has a leaf, and is quite dark. Oh and I managed to get her to eat. Just took about 10 minutes.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm really sorry noodle :-( All I can suggest is to keep her a comfortable as possible. So if you can, keep her in a dark area or turn the lights off a little earlier today and cover the tank with a towel so it's pitch black, this will calm her down and just gently open it in the morning so as not to frighten her. Hopefully it's just stress :-/


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Bloody hell... I think she jumped because she was fighting the current from her useless german filter. She's so chubby that she panicked and launched towards the surface.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

There's many reasons they jump out though, you really can't pin point it to one solid reason without being able to mind meld with her or something :-/ Either way, there's no point in fretting about why she jumped, just seal up her top and focus on her getting better.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Keeping wild bettas I have had a lot of experience with jumping fish. Bettas are pretty resilient. I have had fish fall from the top shelf of my rack onto the bottom shelf, flop onto the floor and suffer me pulling them across the carpet with a net because I can't reach back there and they have been none the worse for wear after a couple of days of recovery. 

I find pectoral injuries are pretty common when they jump. A lot of mine end up with torn or damaged pectorals and seem reluctant to use them for a day or two. 

Bettas jump because it is in their nature to jump. I have fish jump for no reason I can discern. 

Hopefully she just needs a few more days to recover fully.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I sure hope so guys. I'm checking on her every hour or so... Epsom salts have been added.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Do what others have said... Darkened tank, ial, Epsom salts, etc. Low stress is key to ward off opportunistic infections at this point. 

Watch for sudden swelling and dropsy... That would indicate internal damage to the point of shutting down organs. Unlikely as it is, you may want to be ready for the possibility. 

Do not medicate with anything unless an infection pops up.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Alright she's covered up and we'll just keep checking on her.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Keep us updated. Good luck.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She's hiding behind her filter still, and is fairly unresponsive apart from not liking when I flashed a light on her to check out her scales... No change in appearance.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

So we've noticed that she's having to go up for air a lot. Her average time between breaths is 7-11 seconds, hence why she's probably staying near the surface... Still no signs of dropsy, but I have no idea why she'd be having trouble breathing...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You said she may have hit her head? It is definitely possible that she could have suffered some brain damage. I know it's crazy but yes, if a fish hits its head hard enough it can suffer damage. I don't know about concussions per se but something happens.

Think back. Do you remember her doing anything like heavy breathing before she jumped? From the short time that she was out, she shouldn't have any damage from dried gill tissue. As others have stated, bettas that have been out of the water for up to fifteen minutes or more can and do come back. In fact, a betta is more likely to survive being out of water because of their labryinth organ that allows them to breathe surface air. The real danger is drying out. :/

If you have API Stress Coat or Kordon Fish Protector, use that as well to help replace slime coat that she lost while being out of the water.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She was breathing heavily a bit before, but not having to go up for air very often. We figured it was just because she's kind of fat.  We're using stress coat already. It's so weird. When she's near the surface, she takes a breath every couple seconds, like she's OCD. But other times she'll go down in her tank for like five minutes without taking a breath...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

New pic if it might help, with her very normal looking poop.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I took a video of her breathing, in case that might help too... -_-;
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x179x9z_tiny-tina-s-breathing-problem_animals


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

From the pic, Tina may be very eggy or she may have a fatty tumor. I have had several females develop bulges just like that, bulges that get larger and larger. The fish usually is normal for several months before passing. 

Let me see if I can get someone to take a look and see if this fish is eggy or not.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> From the pic, Tina may be very eggy or she may have a fatty tumor. I have had several females develop bulges just like that, bulges that get larger and larger. The fish usually is normal for several months before passing.
> 
> Let me see if I can get someone to take a look and see if this fish is eggy or not.


Thanks Sakura. <3 Did you see how she was breathing in the video? :-\ Dunno if it'll help or not.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Her breathing is a bit heavy. :/ One thing I can suggest is adding 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon to the tank.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Her breathing is a bit heavy. :/ One thing I can suggest is adding 1 tsp of AQ salt per gallon to the tank.


Will do. That won't interact poorly with epsom salts, etc?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Oohhh, right, forgot she was in epsoms. No, do a switch and put her in just AQ salt.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Oohhh, right, forgot she was in epsoms. No, do a switch and put her in just AQ salt.


Mkay. Should I keep treating her with Stress Coat and IAL as well?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes. Stress Coat helps with replacing slime coat and IAL makes the water acidic, which in turn is antimicrobial.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Yes. Stress Coat helps with replacing slime coat and IAL makes the water acidic, which in turn is antimicrobial.


Alrighty. I'll get it all done tonight and will keep you all posted. Thanks for the help Sakura. <3 I just wish I knew what was making the chubby little girl have to/feel the need to go up for breath every few seconds...


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I knocked one off of my dresser during a water change and he lived about a year and a half after that. I think adding the stress coat and putting her in clean water will be fine. Just keep an eye on her and good luck.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Noodle, my friend looked at the pic and suggested she may be eggy or just plain plump since she was chubby before the fall. That is, she doesn't think the fall has anything to do with her being chubby.

However, it is possible that she had some internal damage. It's very hard to tell.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Noodle, my friend looked at the pic and suggested she may be eggy or just plain plump since she was chubby before the fall. That is, she doesn't think the fall has anything to do with her being chubby.
> 
> However, it is possible that she had some internal damage. It's very hard to tell.


She was chubby beforehand, but had no trouble breathing. And any time we've had a betta have serious internal damage/infection/organ failure, they've pineconed. Tina doesn't have any of that...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Would it be wise to do another water change considering we did a 75% right before she jumped out (Monday)? Or should we wait until it's time for her to get her change?


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## alisha221 (Oct 10, 2013)

Following just in case it happens


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

If you did water changes, I would suggest very small ones like 25% so as not to freak her out again or disrupt her and cause her more stress. That's mostly my opinion though and not sure if it's more or less fact.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

>_< Don't know what to do... Sakura said I should do AQ salt but I don't want to shock her. Plus isn't AQ salt only for columnaris?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

AQ salt is not just for Columnaris and honestly I wouldn't bother with AQ salt for Columnaris but immediately hit it with one of the Furan meds or KanaPlex since it's usually more of an aggressive disease. AQ salt does two things; invigorates their slime coat so they overproduce it and that leads to shedding and then balances out their electrolytes. It can also help keep a wound sterile from being infected but won't cure Fin Rot.

You can do a series of small water changes, 25% each time every hour or two over the course of the day and then by four changes you should have clean, fresh water and can add the AQ salt over an hour or so.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thumbs up for lilnaugrim. Also, most parasites cannot tolerate salinity which is why it's a great go-to treatment for ich. In addition, salt inhibits, dehydrates, or sometimes outright kills some forms of bacteria which is why it's good to use to protect open wounds from being infected. It is not a cure-all for bacteria but it definitely can help.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Alright we'll probably end up doing a 100% tonight with AQ salt. >_< Man I hope my little baby pulls through...

Sarah seems to think her belly's getting even bigger... Even on the diet... No pineconing, just a bit of spikiness on her chubby belly...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Took a picture from above... One of her gills is still sticking out... I noticed every time she takes a breath, a bubble comes out her other gill (not the one that's sticking out)... It's like she can't breath properly at all...








She's trying to eat, but it seems she can't keep it down or something. She just keeps spitting it out... I just don't know what to do...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's okay if she doesn't eat for a few day's, that won't hurt her. What I'm worried about though is that I'm pretty sure I see the start of pineconing on the more right side of the picture on her tummy.

As far as the air bubble, she might have too much air in her and like us; we burp to get rid of excess air/gas in our system and that could be what she's just doing.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Well, it does resemble pine coning... but its only on her belly. When Cass came down with dropsy symptoms, they occurred not only on her belly but on her tail as well. So far, Tina only has it on her belly... I'm not sure if its because she is so chubby or if it is because she is coming down with dropsy. I just wish I knew what did it.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hey noodle. I don't remember what size her regular tank is but if it's easier to clean a quarantine tank and it's easier for her to reach the surface to breathe, you may want to move her.

Can you get a profile (side-on) pic? I'm worried that she may be developing a fatty tumor.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

And on the note of pineconing, yes it will eventually spread over the body but it can start on just one area. I had some start just in the stomach area and some started down at the tail is all.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I looked at her this morning and she's starting to pinecone all over her belly... Considering her breathing problems already and her not eating... I don't think she's going to make it... Not sure what to do...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Which salt is she in. Is she fully in AQ salt now or in Epsom? Also, if she's still in her tank, don't use the AQ salt since I know she's got live plants but I have a feeling you did already?


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She is still in epsom salts in her big tank... Was waiting on Sakura to see if we should put her in QT, but it looks like it's too late... And no, she has no real plants...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh, I thought she had real plants, nvm!

What dosage of ES? You can bump it up to 3 tsp slowly in hopes it might get rid of any excess fluid but if she's already on 3 then idk. :-(


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## hollyk (Sep 29, 2013)

Oh dear, I really hope she makes it! Keep us posted! :-(


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## Siobhan (Nov 11, 2013)

Wally has never made an escape attempt in the year and a quarter I've had him, but their new tanks came with lids and I thought I might as well use them. Nobody was happy about the lids at first, but hopefully if they do get a crazy idea, the lid will prevent something like this from happening. Yikes. Silly fish.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

lilnaugrim said:


> Oh, I thought she had real plants, nvm!
> 
> What dosage of ES? You can bump it up to 3 tsp slowly in hopes it might get rid of any excess fluid but if she's already on 3 then idk. :-(


She's on 1 tsp/gallon. Just don't know if I should use that or AQ salt. I'm hearing a lot of mixed things and am really confused what to do...


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, I don't know why Sakura said AQ salt and forgot to ask before. Hopefully she pops on to explain because I'm confused too! But ES, while it can dehydrate a fish, is good for reducing fluids inside of them so if she's got a tumor (although fatty tumor wouldn't be effected by it I think) or some sort of bloat, it would help. But otherwise, as I said, idk.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Alright, we're putting her in her QT. Prepping her tank now. So what should we treat her with? Epsom salts or AQ salts? And should we treat her with any medication?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm not sure. I think for now we should leave her with just clean water until Sakura comes back on and advises more and then you can just slowly add whichever salt to her tank after that. But I think fresh water will be good for her, just acclimate her well.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I just don't know if I can afford to wait... Sakura hasn't been on in a day or so, and I don't want Tina to not get treatment because of inaction... >_<


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

What meds do you have on hand xnoodle?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi, I'm sorry for the major mixup. Initially, when I checked the thread, Tina wasn't bloating or anything (we decided she was just fat) but because of her heavy breathing I wanted to try AQ salts for possible gill flukes.

HOWEVER, now that she IS bloating skip the AQ salt and go straight to epsom salts.

Sorry for the confusion!!


EDIT: Also, if ever I'm not on and you need urgent help, don't hesitate to take whatever advice lilnaugrim or LittleBlueFishlets or ANHEL123 may give you. They all know their stuff really well.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

I have Epsom Salts, API General Cure, Kanaplex, AQ Salts, Paraguard, Maracyn II, Ick Cure.

Should we do 3tsp Epsom Salts per gallon? And if so, should we use any medicine?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I would be doing 3tsp/g of Epsom salts, but you can start her on 2tsp/g then 3tsp/g tomorrow if you are worried about stress. Lots of IAL if you have it too.

Since this is almost certainly from injury, I wouldn't medicate... It will only stress her organs further.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh okay! That makes a lot of sense! I was just super confused! If we still wanted to treat gill flukes though, General Cure would work, yes? I believe I remember reading about that. But I'm definitely no expert on gill flukes, really got to read up about that.

For now I would say yes, just use the 3 tsp/gal but add slowly so she's not too shocked at it. Watch her carefully for any adverse reaction to it, not that there should be.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, General Cure could work although the Quick Cure would actually work better because of the formalin. General Cure is not as rough on the system or the beneficial bacteria though. But now I'm way more concerned about the bloating.  Under any other circumstances, I'd say the bloating was from a bacterial or parasitic problem but because she had that fall, I'm very very worried that it is due to internal injury/bleeding.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

@Sakura: THing is she was basically this fat before the fall. She was super chubby and has been for like 2 weeks before her fall! So should we treat her with anything else?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Let's start with the epsom salts and see if that makes any difference. If, after a few days in just epsom salts, she has not improved, we can move onto a med. But like Matt said, we also don't want to stress her out even more.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Alrighty. We'll get her in 3tsp over the course of a little bit. We're just heating her QT tank up now. The water is pre-tanned and we're putting an IAL in along with her leaf hammock. Should we keep it at around 30*c?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah. We want her to be as comfortable and unstressed right now as possible.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

Alrighty. I'll keep posting updates. :-\


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*fingers crossed* Good luck, noodle!!!


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She's in her tank now. Warm water, salts, stress coat, and IAL...


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

She's neither better, nor worse today. Spending a lot of time at the top of her QT. Nothing really new.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

In a way its a good thing. At least not worse. I'm hoping she can bounce back.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I would just use Epsom salt and clean water with IAL. I wouldn't try all this medication 'just in case ' its this or that. That will do more harm than good.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Sakura8 said:


> Hi, I'm sorry for the major mixup. Initially, when I checked the thread, Tina wasn't bloating or anything (we decided she was just fat) but because of her heavy breathing I wanted to try AQ salts for possible gill flukes.
> 
> HOWEVER, now that she IS bloating skip the AQ salt and go straight to epsom salts.
> 
> ...


t

Mattsbettas and Logisticsguy really know their stuff, too. I wouldn't hesitate to call on either one of those guys.


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## XxxXnoodleXxxX (Dec 1, 2012)

<3
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=306842
<3


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I saw that thread. I'm so sorry! Poor little girl.


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## Stormykitty (Sep 10, 2013)

*Much confusion over bloat*

Edit: OMFG! I'm so sorry I meant that as a new thread soo, soooo sorry!


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