# Please help my Crowntail with constant issues. Fins, Constipation, and bump on head



## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone I need help my crowntail Redd. I got him around February/March. I am not sure how old he is, but he was larger than the others there when I got him.

*Redd's Home:*
He is a ten gallon tank,
Temperature is 79-80 degrees,
The has a hang on the back filter,
At the moment he doesn't have an airstone, but I do have an extra ten gallon pump, tubing, and airstones I could put in.

He is in the tank by himself (though I have seen copepods, and small looking worms on the glass with a magnifying glass), there may be snails as well, but I have not seen them (only evidence I have is that I find the shells in his poop).

*Redd's Food:*
I have omega one betta buffet flakes,
New life spectrum community fish pellets (currently giving him this, he seems to act a little better with this food),
freezed dried food: bloodworms, brine shrimp, and daphnia (just got this)
I also do add garlic guard and vita-chem to the food as well

I normally give him around two pieces of the food I am feeding him in the morning. But with the constipation issues he has been getting so often (I think from him eating the snails) I haven't given him freezed dried food in a while.

*Redd's Home maintenance
*Redd was previously in another ten gallon, but he kept getting fuzz/bacterial infection on fins (happened four times in row), so I decided to move him this ten gallon he is in now. This tank is maybe a month old. When I moved him I took media from a cycled 20 gallon, and added tetra safestart. 

When I first moved him I was doing water changes every two days. Just last week I moved it to every 4-5 days (have never registered ammonia)

I normally take out 30-50% at each water change.

With the water changes I match the temperature (79-80) and use seachem's prime as my conditioner (though I have used stress coat before, I have had recommendation to go back to it, but I don't have any at the moment)
I also put one large indian almond leaf (started this maybe almost three weeks ago), and I add vita-chem to his water as well.

*Redd's Water Parameters:
*I tested his water yesterday morning. I use the api master kit and also tetra test strips.
Ammonia:looks zero (if any just slightly)
Nitrite:looks zero
Nitrate:slightest color (less than 5 ppm)
pH:I would say in between 7.2-7.6
Hardness: I would say soft, around 75 ppm (from strips, hard to tell)
Alkalinity: I would say low, around 40 ppm (from strips, hard to tell)

Here are pics of the master kit results (from yesterday). One has ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The other showing the pH, ammonia, and nitrite.
















*Redd's symptoms and treatment:
*
He is a pic of Redd on April 28 of this year (Ready for battle).







As you can tell I had the wrong type of plants (too rough for him), and one of his fins got snagged on a plant and torn part of it off, which grew a fuzz on it.
Here are pictures when this happened in June (first time).





















As you can tell he had long nice fins. What happened when he got this the fuzz would grown along the ray then it would fall off. Then it would start on another fin.
Well this occurred three times, and fins just got worse with every time. I treated with kanaplex the first time and aquarium salt. Second time I used paraguard and aquarium salt, third time had to go with kanaplex again because paraguard and aquarium salt didn't work (first tried it). Fourth time (by this time he was in the new tank, one he is in now), I fed him medicated food with kanaplex (seachem told me it would be easier on him as opposed to being constantly in the water). He hasn't gotten the fuzz ever since (last fuzz fell off within the first week of him being in this tank), but the damage was bad compared to the others.

When he got sick the first time all the plants were changed to silk immediately and have been just silk since then. And just recently I added Indian almond leaves to help.

But in the last week or two, I notice he would get a bump on his head but then it would go away the next day or even within the same day (later on). Here is a pic of it. I am not sure what to make of it cause it doesn't look like something attached or growing on him, but like a swollen area. Maybe he just hits his head on things. It goes away for a couple of days then shows up again, and it looks like the same area every time.








Yesterday I recorded a video of Redd yesterday as I noticed maybe some fin rot. I also show his tank and his messed up fins. I think they look thinner compared to his older pictures. I am just in need of help, as I can't keep my little guy healthy no matter what I do. The video is around 15 min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNgRg0BRNU&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA

Please any advice I would greatly appreciate. Also I took this video either before or after this video, then I did a 50% water change and added aquarium salt the water the the water I prepared (5 gallons and I did half the dose on the box as I increase it slowly cause Redd is a little sensitive to it).

I apologize for this thread and the video being so long, I am just in a constant battle with my little guy. I am not sure what to do even more.

Thank you!
Jose


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

It looks like you are taking pretty good care of him. The thing that stands out is the food you are feeding him. Try switching to Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets or New Life Spectrum Betta or community formula pellets. Flakes and freeze dried foods cause bloating. You could try treating his tank with Epsom salts Then feed him frozen daphnia. That will work like a laxative.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey Jose, I have a little more time to look over your post. I'm at work and on and was on break when I wrote the last one.

First thing, great job with the write up and photos.

I would get rid of all the freeze dried foods & flakes.These foods will cause the constipation. I would recommend a fast for a few days. His basic diet should be the NLS pellets with frozen treats such as blood worms, mysis shrimp, daphnia etc. as a treat.

If the constipation persists, I would recommend an Epsom salt treatment in the tank. 

Here are clearly written instructions on the treatment by one the experts...


VivianKJean said:


> Add 1 teaspoon of Epsom Salt per gallon of water. Make sure it is unscented. you can find it pharmacies, grocery stores and hardware stores. Dissolve it in a cup of tank water first and then over the course of an hour slowly add the salted water back to the tank. You can leave this in here for a while. The longest I had epsom salt in a tank at that dosage was over a month with no issues. It does not evaporate out so just make sure that you are add it with every water change - so if you change 1 gallon of water then add 1 teaspoon to the new water. DO NOT do baths since they do not help. The fish isn't exposed to the benefits of epsom salt long enough for it to take effect.


You may want to bump up the temperature to 80-82 to get his metabolism working faster. 

Clean warm water is the key to preventing & healing fin rot. IAL leaves are something I personally recommend, so I'm glad to see you are using them. 

You may want to check out this thread to see if it is indeed fin rot and not fin biting.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=346377

Sorry, but I gotta get back to work. I got chicks to feed.

Hopefully someone else will take the stick and cover all the things I missed.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks for the quote Mike <3 Saves me time!

+1 to everything else that Mike said.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> Thanks for the quote Mike <3 Saves me time!


My pleasure Viv.

Jose mentioned that he has treated the water with aquarium salt. Should he do a 100% water change before he starts the Epsom salt treatment?


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes, you shouldn't use AQ salt and Epsom Salt at the same time.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

I thank you all for the awesome post! 

This morning Redd took a major bathroom visit. He had some major poop coming out of him this morning. Also once again, I found snails in it. This maybe a little nasty, but I took out the poop ball once it feel off of him (belly went down now, looks normal) and inspected it. Here is a pic of the ball it fell apart when I put it on the napkin, but you can see 4 snail shells in it.









Are the NLS pellets I have okay for him? 
I looked on their website and their ingredients appear to be the same for all their pellets. Whats differs is whether it is classified as sinking, semi-floating, or floating and the size of the pellet if I recall correctly.

As for the freezed dried food I normally soak it for around twenty minutes before giving it to him. I also applied this to the flakes I was giving him too. I guess it could still clog him up. Could it be the snails though? I mean the only poop I ever find from him is when he was constipated because it is a poop ball and every time I find snails. Please any thoughts on this.

I do have a question regarding the frozen food. I have considered it for my fish, but what scares me from I have read on the internet is that there is a higher chance of getting internal parasites from them as oppose to freezed dried food. Any info on this I would greatly appreciate it.

I know Redd is fin biter. I have actually caught him in the act. Last time I saw him biting was when I added the cave to his tank (newest thing in his tank). Within an hour or so he right in front of it, then just started to go after his tail fins. I haven't seen it ever since.

Thank you so much for the link on fin rot and fin biting. Maybe it is just biting, perhaps, though I am a little suspicious of maybe two or three that maybe fin rot (look black on the edge of the ray). I do see new growth on several of his fins (clear parts growing).

Also I guess the constipation was really bothering him, because later in the afternoon (poop free). My little was active swimming everywhere. Interacting with me when I came close, getting excited. 

Also I noticed he had gotten a bump on his head yesterday, but today it is gone. I still don't know what to make of it. Could it be excess slime coat (from the link)?

I again thank you all for the help.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

The NLS pellets are very good for him. One of the best brands.

The snails shouldn't clog him up. The shells look super tiny. The freeze dried would though.

As for frozen foods - it depends on the brands. Omega One seems to be the most trust brand of frozen. The food is treated before freezing to get rid of parasites.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> The NLS pellets are very good for him. One of the best brands.
> 
> The snails shouldn't clog him up. The shells look super tiny. The freeze dried would though.
> 
> As for frozen foods - it depends on the brands. Omega One seems to be the most trust brand of frozen. The food is treated before freezing to get rid of parasites.


Thank you for the reply!

The reason I ask about the snails is because since he has been having issues with constipation, he hasn't received freezed dried food for almost the entire time he has been in this tank (around a month). I was giving him the omega one flakes though (soaked ahead of time), which I guess could be doing it just as well.

But I will look into what my local fish store has in terms of frozen food. Any suggestions? Brine shrimp, bloodworms,....

I again thank you for the post!


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Either Brine Shrimp or Blood worms would be great for your fish. I have both but my bettas tend to prefer the bloodworms.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,
Redd got this bump on his head again this morning. I really have no idea to make of it. Like I said earlier it will show up in the morning then is gone later in the day or the next day. Then won't show up for a couple of days again and the pattern just repeats.

Here is a video of him after I fed him two NLS pellets that were soaked in vita-chem and garlic guard for about 20 min. 

I show his belly after he ate, if someone could please comment on the size of it, because I just really want to make sure I am just not overdoing it when I feed him. 

He actually gets close to look at his fins as well. I just wanted to get the opinion whether he has some fin rot. I know some of the fins were damaged from the last fuzz incident and just haven't grown back yet.


He has been very active and responsive since yesterday. In the video you really don't see it. I tried a couple of times to get to show how he has been active, but when my phone comes out to take a video he kinda just chills out. I guess just camera shy. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_SBp9EwRbk&index=1&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA

I wonder if just the combo of 50% water change, a little bit of salt, and the release of all that poop just made him feel way better.

I think I am going to increase his tank temp to 80-81 to see if that helps with the constipation issues.

Again I thank you all for the input!


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,
It has been awhile since I last posted about Redd.

The past couple of days have been okay.

I have been feeding him one NLS pellet (soaked in vita chem and guarlic guard) a day. After the pellets swell from being soaked they actually are quite large (almost the size of his eye). I normally give him a pellet, and if his belly doesn't look big I give him a small piece of betta flake, bloodworm, or daphia.

So I think this working, he doesn't get these huge bellies anymore. I normally find poop in the tank about everytwo days (temp is at 79 still).

I believe he is actually a little longer (growing). His rays are growing back too, everyday they are slightly longer. I see the little clear tips getting longer.

His bump on his head he has been constantly getting it still. It would be there then disappear and reappear within the same day or over a couple of days.

It looks like it is clear, could it be like excess slimecoat or something that builds over night then when he is awake (swimming) it slowly comes off cause he is moving??

I notice like an oil layer on the top of his tank. First, is this normal for bettas?
I know they make bubble nest, but I am not sure if they produce this oil looking layer or not.
Or could it be from the water not moving that much (I slowed the current down so it isn't rough on him)?

Today, when I first turned my fishes lights on Redd had the bump and looked like raised scales to the side of the bump. It looked actually quite swollen.

I took of video of it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTbdVYJwqwU&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA

I checked his water and no ammonia, no nitrite, not really registering and nitrate.
I do notice there is a lot of brown algae in his tank. I am not really sure how plants work, but I believe some use nitrates to grow as well.
Could it be that maybe his tank doesn't register nitrates because:
one fish in a ten gallon (not much bioload)
and algae using it too

Well, it really freaked me out. I just wanted to know if there is anything I can do for it. In the video you can clearly see the white/clear looking bump/coating that comes and goes.

You can also see raised scales around the bump too (his right side). Could he just have ran into something that could have that? Well could it be a physical injury? I really don't see anything else on him. Sometimes he hangs behind the outlet of the filter, then he sometimes goes under it. Well the current is strongest there, so I see it push him sometimes. I am wondering during the night he is swimming around but can't see so he runs into things. Not sure??

The video I took a little over two hours ago, and I just finished changing his water (roughly 30-40%, today is water change day). I have been changing his water every four-five days, and I have been checking his water as well. I still haven't been registering any ammonia.

I guess I looking for any advice. I am not sure the scales should heal on their own or it I should do something to help.

I am sorry for the long post, but I thank you all for any input.
thank you


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,

I really haven't gotten anything responses regarding the things on his head. 

I guess no one is really sure.

The slightly raised scales on his head seem to be going down. I think it is healing, but I am a little concerned over the the white coating/bump he has been getting for a while. It has been a while and it really hasn't gone away again. When looking at it. It kinda looks like a clear coating on that area (you can kinda see through). You see the bump I have been referring to in the videos. (please take a look if you can)

What I am scared of if it is some sort of infection that he has been borderline fighting. And since it has been going and coming by itself it has been left untreated.

Again any advice I would greatly appreciate.

Thank you


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I took a look at the video and I don't really have a definitive answer. He seems pretty active. It could be a tumor or something parasitic. I don't think it's a good idea to start dumping medication in the tank until you have a clear idea what's going on. It would be a good idea to have some medication on hand and keep posting updates on Redd's condition. If it turns out to be parasitic, API General cure or Seachem Metronidazole are good to have on hand. If it's bacterial, Seachem Kanplex is great but it can be hard to find when you need it most. So grab it ASAP.

Do you think he could be injuring himself on some of the decorations? If that's the case, treat the tank with some aquarium salt to sterilize the wound. 

About the decorations, I'd be willing to bet that's where the oil slick is coming from. Those polyurethane resin decorations are unsafe in my opinion. They can take months to fully cure and release harmful gases in the process, I used to work with the junk in my first job in product development and it is known to cause cancer. If it is so safe, why don't they use it in children's toys? I still use a betta log, begrudgingly. I coated it with silicone to seal it and hopefully make it safe.

That's all I got. Hopefully someone else will take a shot.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> I took a look at the video and I don't really have a definitive answer. He seems pretty active. It could be a tumor or something parasitic. I don't think it's a good idea to start dumping medication in the tank until you have a clear idea what's going on. It would be a good idea to have some medication on hand and keep posting updates on Redd's condition. If it turns out to be parasitic, API General cure or Seachem Metronidazole are good to have on hand. If it's bacterial, Seachem Kanplex is great but it can be hard to find when you need it most. So grab it ASAP.
> 
> Do you think he could be injuring himself on some of the decorations? If that's the case, treat the tank with some aquarium salt to sterilize the wound.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response!!!!

Thank you for the input.

I also thought it could be a tumor or something else (parasite or bacterial infection), but what always threw me off is how inconsistent it was.

This is the pattern I notice with it.
He would sometimes get it in the morning, looking like it does in the video (very noticeable). Kinda like a swollen area or knot. I guess kinda to how we would hit our head with something and that area would swell. But then later in the day the white looking color wouldn't be there and it didn't look swollen anymore. Sometimes, I also saw something similar on some of the rays that are healing. That some of the white tips (new growth) would have a string type stuff on it in the morning but gone after he swims around throughout the day (I think slime coat due to healing).

I really don't know of much that disappears within the same day. Even if this bump wasn't gone that same day it would be a day or two then it would be gone (not swollen looking or white looking at all, like nothing was ever there). A couple of days he would be normal nothing at all, then the process would repeat.

I really don't think it is a tumor (hope not anyway). I really don't think tumors come and go (but I am no expert at all). Since the scales on his head looked raised (seem to be going down now, I hope healing), I kinda can see that this white bump or whatever it is on just the scale (I think).

I was looking at him earlier and in a certain light it kinda looks kinda like a blister. Under a certain it is like you can see through it kinda. Not sure if it is some sort of coating perhaps instead of some swollen area.

It is weird because if you are looking from a top down view of him you don't even notice it. It kinda looks like a smooth area on the head but just his regular color, which maybe points to it being actually clear. Maybe the white looking color is just from how the light hits it.

Of course these are just my thoughts and I have no clue as to how viable the scenarios are.

I do have general cure, Metronidazole (almost out though), and kanaplex all on hand. I have given him metronidazole and kanaplex in a medicated food mix when I last treated him from what I think was a bacterial infection he kept getting (reason why so many of fins are messed up and now are growing).

Since the indian almond leafs and him being in this new tank he hasn't gotten it back unless that is what this bump on his is (before he only ever got it on his rays though, never the body).


I do believe it is possible he could be injuring himself in the tank, and that is what I originally was attributing this bump thing to since it would only show up in the morning then be gone that same day or a day or two from then. I was thinking just perhaps he at night he runs into something then it would show up.

Another thought is what if the bump is actually a coating of the oil that is on the water surface but on him. I mean I have seen him at that water surface when he sleeps, I thought maybe when he sleeps that part of his head is closest to the water surface and it kinda just deposits then when he is awake and swimming around it just slowly comes off (since it was gone within the same day or a day or two from then).

I wasn't ever sure if the oil layer was normal or not. As far as I came remember (even when I first got him and in the previous thank), I think his water always had something like this (some layer on top). I guess I thought it was normal since the water was stagnant. 

But it sounds like it isn't normal.

I am happy that he still appears to be acting fine. I mean he appears to be acting okay.

I am so sorry about the length of this post but these are just thoughts I have been having and I just wanted to get the input of more experienced fish keepers than me.

thank you again


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

The oil like layer actually could be normal. All of my tanks have them, even the ones that have natural plants and no artificial decor. It's a protein layer. It won't harm your fish but if it bothers you then you use a paper towel to remove it by laying it over the surface for a few seconds to absorb the oily parts.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> The oil like layer actually could be normal. All of my tanks have them, even the ones that have natural plants and no artificial decor. It's a protein layer. It won't harm your fish but if it bothers you then you use a paper towel to remove it by laying it over the surface for a few seconds to absorb the oily parts.


Yeah, that too.  I guess that's why Marine tanks use protein skimmers. Do it Vivian's way and save 200 bucks. 

Do you take all the uneaten food out of the tank? Left over fish food could be the source of oil & protein.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

MikeG14 said:


> Yeah, that too.  I guess that's why Marine tanks use protein skimmers. Do it Vivian's way and save 200 bucks.
> 
> Do you take all the uneaten food out of the tank? Left over fish food could be the source of oil & protein.


Agreed. Uneaten food can be the cause as well. If you don't already - feed your fish one pellet at a time and remove any uneaten food right away.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> Agreed. Uneaten food can be the cause as well. If you don't already - feed your fish one pellet at a time and remove any uneaten food right away.


I thank you all for the replies!

I am glad it isn't bad for him.

I don't let uneaten food sit in his tank. For a while Redd was having constipation issues so I have been feeding him slowly ever since he was moved to this tank. I have been giving him a pellet soaked in garlic guard and vita-chem then I wait a couple of mins and give a piece flake, bloodworm, or daphia, but he eats everything and if he doesn't eat it it I remove it with a turkey baster.

I give him only one NLS pellet because once they are soaked they are actually quite large.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,

I wanted to update on Redd's condition. This morning (during feeding) I noticed the scales that were raised seem almost back to normal and the white bump/coating on his head seemed less noticeable compared to the last video I posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXGsQUwjGYs&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA

When I got home later in the day I took a video of him again to kinda show that it seems that it becomes less pronounced throughout the day. It is kinda hard to tell by video but I could tell that it looked less noticeable this afternoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K11-8dG3qK8&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA&index=1

In both videos Redd was just close to the glass cause he was waiting for food. He does that when I get close and he believes I am going to add food to the tank.

Again any advice or thoughts I would greatly appreciate.

Thank you!


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,

First thing I hope all of you have a happy holiday.

It has been a while since I have posted about Redd. Well the he has been acting awesome (active, colorful, eating), but his fins still still questionable.

So I notice some of the tips of his rays would look shriveled up. But then I would see what looks like new growth the day or so. I am not sure if maybe the fin gets damaged then maybe some fin rot, but he fights it off is the next day or so.

But I have noticed for the past two days that some of the rays do appear to be getting shorter and shorter (shriveled up look, but only at the tips), especially some of his dorsal fins.

He water is clean and I have been using Indian almond leaves. I am thinking I may have to treat him with something cause it looks like it is getting a worse each day. I was thinking of using seachem's paraguard (broad spectrum treatment), but I really have no idea of treating while using leaves.

I know the leaves leech things into the water, but I am not sure if it is okay to add some kind of medication as well to the water.

I could also do a medicated food as well if I don't want to add to the water, but these are more of antibiotics and I have been told not to use them that much so I build up a resistant strain of anything.
But I do have them (metronidazole and kanaplex).

Any advice I would appreciate. I guess I am just not sure if treating the water with the leaves is okay.

Thank you! And Happy Holidays


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

The IAL is OK to use with medication. Are you using activated carbon in your filter by any chance? 

Kanaplex will be more effective when mixed with food.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Thank you for the reply!

I just wanted to be sure that I could treat his water with the leaf in the tank.
I am not using carbon at the moment. His tank water has that yellow-brownish tint to it.

I just can't seem to help him keep his rays in okay shape. Some of them you can see new growth of the ray (clear tips), but on some it looks like the tips appear to shrivel up and perhaps are getting shorter.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Are his fins curling? This may be due to hard water. I heard a betta breeder talk about this on the Under The Sea Radio Show (available on itunes). He said it is kind of a common problem with CT's. Exposing them to a half an hour a day of indirect sunlight can help. I'd hate to see you medicate him for something that might just be a genetic defect.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hmm not sure. I guess I am not really sure what is meant by curling.

I don't think so. To me it looks like the tips of some of the rays seem to shrivel up then they kind of flop around. Also his rays are thin, thinner than when I first got him. 

I have heard of something like that and sunlight can help him, something with the strength of the bones(fins) or something like that.

I can try to get a video of him tomorrow. It is late where I am and my fish tank light have been off for a while. If I try to mess him right now he would just get scared and begin flashing.

Maybe that is all that it is??? I do notice that some of the rays seem to break, I guess the same thing that is making thin as well. Not sure?


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

I took a video of Redd this morning right before feeding. I just wanted to show the condition his fins are in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sWh0yVrX0&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA
Sorry if the video is a little long, I didn't even realize it was when I was doing it.

But please take a look at fins. I think maybe a slight case of finrot.

I started treating him with seachem's paraguard. It is dosed daily (so could be stopped at anytime) and from my understanding it is very mild and usually best option for starting out. I have read that it is suppose to be awesome for fin damage.

The reason I thought to treat is because I noticed his fins are slightly getting shorter (just a few of them), especially the very top two dorsal rays. I have been keeping his water cleaned and I noticed that some the fins looked a little worse then the next day or so the ones that looked bad appear to look better, but the past couple of days several of them just appear to keep getting shorter with this shriveled up look.

I do have methylene blue to do a bath, but I have always been scared of hurting him while moving especially since his rays look thin (compared to before).

Again please take a look at the video. I just can't seem to help him get his fins back to how they were before.

Thank you and again Happy Thanksgiving!


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey Jose, Happy Thanksgiving.

I took a look at the video and his fins aren't curling but they might be clubbing, which is another problem with CT's. It's a stumper, because the problem certainly doesn't have anything to do with the care you are giving him. It's my opinion that you are fighting genetics and I'm not sure if the answer is medication. CT's fins are more fragile that other bettas. I've read that they can even be effected by sleeping on gravel. That might be why you are seeing daily changes. Any chance that he might be doing some fin biting as well?


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> Hey Jose, Happy Thanksgiving.
> 
> I took a look at the video and his fins aren't curling but they might be clubbing, which is another problem with CT's. It's a stumper, because the problem certainly doesn't have anything to do with the care you are giving him. It's my opinion that you are fighting genetics and I'm not sure if the answer is medication. CT's fins are more fragile that other bettas. I've read that they can even be effected by sleeping on gravel. That might be why you are seeing daily changes. Any chance that he might be doing some fin biting as well?


Thanks for the reply MikeG14 and for looking at the video,

I heard and read somethings referring to crowntails about the rays, which like you mentioned seem to be more sensitive.

When he was having the fin fuzz from before I caught him a couple of times trying to bite his fins. Also, when I first placed the cave in his tank he starred at it for a couple of minutes and then went after his tail fins, but I haven't seen him do it since (though can't be sure when I am not looking).

Yeah, I have been trying so hard to help him grow his fins back. It just bums me out.

Today, I adopted my girlfriend's sister's betta Tyson. She is moving and can't take the fish so we took him in. Here is a video of him actually after placing him in his new home, which I added his filter media (I hope was fine because the drive was an hour long within his tank water, but temp dropped about 8 degrees) and dosed with some safestart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPLIny0MQXw&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA&index=1

I am glad that Tyson looks awesome, but it just makes me sad that my Redd look like he does (meaning his fins).
I guess I feel this way because I try so hard with Redd and with Tyson they basically didn't did half the work I did and he looks so good.

Maybe it is just a genetic thing, which means I can't win. 

I know Tyson was just feed omega one betta flakes. I have been giving Redd New Life Spectrum Community Fish pellets. Now I looked on the new life spectrum website and it looks like all their pellets have the same ingredients (compared to betta formula as well) and they just differ in terms of size and whether they sink or not.

Could it possibly be maybe the nutrition is not entirely correct that I have been giving him (even though the ingredients seem okay compared to the betta formula pellets). Along with these pellets I do give him the betta flakes but once in while (the same with bloodworms and brine shrimp).

Also my tanks really don't get that much sunlight (direct or indirect). I think I read somewhere that this can help with the bones if I am not mistaken (If wrong please correct me). You also mentioned some time in indirect sunlight may help the fins as well. You really think this may help his fins? Even they are not curling?

Sorry for all the questions and the super long post, but I just want to really help my Redd get better (If I can).

Thank you.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

Hey, it's pretty obvious that you are doing the best you can with Redd. He looks active & happy, just give him some time and have some patience. 

It looks one of the spikes on Tyson's tail has some clubbing. You are just going to have problems with CT's that IMO really can't be avoided unless you keep them confined in a bare bottomed bowl. No gravel & sunlight may help. I have no experience with CT's myself, I'm a plakat guy. So the deck is stacked in my favor as far as fin health goes. These are only suggestions I've read or heard about on podcasts.

I would try to get Tyson off the flakes and on to pellets. They will be better for him in the long run, less of a chance of bloating & constipation. The NLS formulas are pretty much the same. If you are feeding him NLS, he's fine. Both of my fish prefer Omega One over NLS. Maybe you might want to give that a try. Either food is a fully balanced diet.

If you are on itunes you can search for "Natures Talk Show" (formerly the Under The Sea radio show) look for the episode "The Fine Art of Keeping and Breeding Crowntail Bettas", It aired on 1/25/13. I tried to give you a direct link but their website stinks. Your in pretty deep with CT's right now. Maybe this will give you some more insight on what you are dealing with.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi Jose

Just some suggestions, they might help with the crowntail problem:

1. Increase the temperature to 84-86 degrees. Since his rays have narrowed so severely, there might not be enough blood circulation to keep the whole ray alive.

2. Add 1/4 of a cuttlebone (basically calcium carbonate, found in the bird section of a petstore) to the tank. (Maybe hide it in the HOB?) I'm wondering if your water is actually too soft instead of too hard. It will probably change your pH depending on your water chemistry, but as long as you stay between pH 6.5-8.5, I wouldn't be too concerned. If it goes outside of that range (very unlikely), I'd do a 50% water change.

3. Does he still have that bump on his head? If so, may be treat with something containing praziquantel (like API General Cure or PraziPro) just to rule out skin flukes or other surface parasites.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

I Thank you both for the replies!

@MikeG14
Yeah I did notice that thing on Tyson's tail.

yeah I thought the NLS were all the same. It has just come to point I am beginning to second guess what I am doing for him now. It appears, instead of his fins getting better they may be getting slightly worse. I am just not sure what to do about it now.

When he caught the fin fuzz the first and second times, he had short rays and they grew back within the week or two after completing treatment. It has been months now and his rays are just growing so slowly if any at all.

@Zhylis
Thank you for the suggestions.
I will look into the cuttlebone. I have never actually heard of it.
He has actually been bump free until today. This morning it showed up slightly. Just slightly and the same thing happened in the afternoon that you didn't even notice it. Like it can go away within the same day.

I do have API General Cure. Could this bump actually be flukes? I have never faced it (that I know of).

I again thank you for the replies.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Any source of calcium carbonate would work if introduced slowly. You might be able to find something aquarium specific in the African cichlid or salt water areas. I just use cuttlebone since it's cheap and easily dissolved or powered. 

Skin/body flukes can't be seen by eye, and don't really affect fish in small numbers. Because of the way they replicate, they can form a localized colony that looks like a skin lesion. In warm waters, their replication cycle takes about 24-36hours, which could explain why the bump appears and disappears, as they mature, fall off the fish, and then the next generation reattaches. If it is skin flukes, a full treatment with anything containing praziquantel (General Cure, PraziPro...) should get rid of most of them.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I hope you give the cuttlebone a try Jose, I'm super curious to see if it helps. Keep us posted.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

I will go look for it today.

I just fed my fish pellets soaked with seachem's nourish.
See I had $50 store credit at my local fish store and I went by there two days in search of safestart. I wanted it just in case for Tyson's tank since it is brand new, but I did bring the media that was in his old tank at my girlfriend's sister's place. I kept it wet in water from that tank in a cooler, but the drive was an hour long I and I think the temp dropped in the cooler water by 8 degrees. I hope the bacterial survived so Tyson isn't at risk of a cycling tank. I could always add media from my twenty as I am constantly adding extra media just for that purpose of putting in another smaller tank.

Well, the store is closing down  and when I got there almost everything was gone. I was looking for vita-chem, but none available so I got this nourish by seachem and looking at the ingredients and it states it calcium chloride in it. Maybe some extra calcium this way may help as well.

So my livebearers (guppies and platies) love the NLS pellets, but soaked in this nourish they were spitting it out several times before eating it.

I tried to give Tyson a pellet as well, he wasn't having it. My girlfriend asked her sister basically what was his schedule (water changes, feeding, etc...). So he doesn't eat pellets and bloodworms (only things attempted, doesn't like them). So daily he was given omega one betta flakes every two days.

I did get him to eat two pieces of bloodworm that were soaked as well and I just gave him the betta flakes.

Now Redd ate just fine. I also checked his water parameter (strips). Ph was between 6.8-7.2 lower in his tank cause of IAL), Hardness (GH) is 75 (soft), and alkalinity (KH) appeared between 80-120.

I also looked at some pictures of him as well and he appeared thicker before (Kinda how Tyson looks). This morning he has the slightest bump on his head. Also one of tail rays has a little rip in the middle that has a white color. Not sure if some infection or the inner fin (maybe?).

His tail fin has looked a little more closed (not as fanned out) the past two days. yesterday I did a 50% water changed and added a new IAL.

I just don't know how he was so awesome then he just went down hill in the matter of months. 

I know we recently have changed management at my apartment. Maybe they changed water companies or something.

I notice the same with my livebearers. Before they use to regrow fins within a day or two (some fin nipping occurs), but one my guppies tail fin is growing so slowly as well.

I just don't know what to do. I want Redd to get better and I want to prevent Tyson from going that way too if it is something I am doing or in the water here.

Before, Tyson's tank wasn't given a water change (5 gallon). Every two weeks treated water was just added to replace the evaporated water.

I guess it is stuff like this that make me sad I feel I have done everything possible for Redd (new food, new sterilized tank, new plants, strictly followed maintenance schedule, ordered IALs), but others barely do anything and their little guy is in perfect shape.

I am sorry about the long post. I am just super bummed right now.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi Jose and Mike!

If you're already using IAL, then skip the cuttlebone. 

No one is quite sure what causes crowntails to lose/thin the rays. The people with hard water say soft is the answer, people with soft water say certain minerals are the answer, heat could be a factor, some even say they've "cured" fin curling by introducing a moderate current in the tank. 

Throw a dart, flip a coin...


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Zhylis said:


> Hi Jose and Mike!
> 
> If you're already using IAL, then skip the cuttlebone.
> 
> ...


Yeah I am using IAL already have been for a while now. I guess this is kinda why I am a little freaked over him getting better. From what I have read IAL are awesome for the fins, but Redd recovery appears to have stalled at times or is going very slowly.

After doing a search I see you what you are saying. Basically there are many theories referring to the rays of crowntails. I guess just like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I did find the cuddlebone earlier at the petstore. I also spoke to one of the employees there. This woman is one of the only people I ever ask for advice at any petstore as a majority of them I see don't really know anything. She says she has been keeping fish for almost 15 years if I recall right. She knows my issue with Redd and asked me to keep her informed about him. I ask about the cuddlebone and she told me I could try a UVa/b lamp close to his tank to help with calcium supplementation. So showed me both the ones used for reptiles and also the ones meant for planted tanks. She also mentioned the use of vita-chem or something similar (which I am doing already). So I brought a UVa/b bulb and I also did get the cuddlebone, it was only a dollar.

I guess I am going to try the lamp first. I am always scared of moving him out of his 10 tank (since 10 gallons to large to move daily), since his rays look brittle, I am just scared of doing more damage than good. Maybe this lamp will have the same effect without having to move him.

I just want to say again, I thank everyone for the post and suggestions for my Redd.
Thank you!


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

The reason I suggested the cuttlebone (calcium carbonate) was because I noticed you have pretty soft water. Soft water is measured by how much calcium and magnesium ions are dissolved in the water. With a relatively low concentration outside of the fish, all those vitamins and supplements could be leeching (diffusing) out through his gills before they do any good. So if calcium is the problem, I figure gently raising the concentration in the water may help. (If calcium is the problem!)

Best of luck!


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Zhylis said:


> The reason I suggested the cuttlebone (calcium carbonate) was because I noticed you have pretty soft water. Soft water is measured by how much calcium and magnesium ions are dissolved in the water. With a relatively low concentration outside of the fish, all those vitamins and supplements could be leeching (diffusing) out through his gills before they do any good. So if calcium is the problem, I figure gently raising the concentration in the water may help. (If calcium is the problem!)
> 
> Best of luck!


Oh, I understand now.
If if can't keep vitamins and minerals in could a little bit of aquarium salt help?
I think I understand this correctly. The salt helps with fluids and stuff going into the body?

Thanks for the reply


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

No, Aquarium Salt does not help with fluids. Aquarium Salt only sterilizes wounds. You can use it in your tank as a health preventative at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. I personally do not do this though. 

Epsom Salt helps full toxins and excess fluids out of the fish but does not help them go in. 

I agree with the cuttlebone suggestion. You can also bury it in gravel.

The only way to get vitamins and minerals into the tank beside what I said above is water changes. That is the only way to get the minerals your fish is water changes.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> No, Aquarium Salt does not help with fluids. Aquarium Salt only sterilizes wounds. You can use it in your tank as a health preventative at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. I personally do not do this though.
> 
> Epsom Salt helps full toxins and excess fluids out of the fish but does not help them go in.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the post and clarification.

I am a little unsure of how big a piece I should immerse in his tank. The cuttlebone I got is roughly 4 x 1 inches.

I know any changes should be eased into, but I just looking for a suggestion starting point from more experienced users of it. Maybe a 1 x 1 inch piece?

Again thank you.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Just break off a small piece? There is no formula to how much you should use.


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Jose said:


> Oh, I understand now.
> If if can't keep vitamins and minerals in could a little bit of aquarium salt help?
> I think I understand this correctly. The salt helps with fluids and stuff going into the body?
> 
> Thanks for the reply


Just the fluids part actually. Since freshwater fish actively take in ions through their gills, raising the salinity of the tank water will raise the salinity of the blood. To restore equilibrium, more water is taken up into the blood, basically giving Mr. Fish higher blood pressure, which can be good and/or bad, depending on their salt tolerance nd what you're trying to do. 

For what you're suggesting, you'd actually want a complex mixture of different salts, not just NaCl. That's... complicated. Some companies have tried to do this, you can find the results as blackwater extracts, cichlid salts, wondershells, Atison's Betta SPA etc. I wouldn't suggest trying to tweak your water chemistry without first doing some research. And then triple checking it. Even the cuttlebone will change your water chemistry. Your GH and KH will both go up and probably bring up your pH a bit; the IAL currently in the tank may bump pH down but probably not. I'd suggest putting in 1/4 of a cuttlebone in the tank and monitoring your GH, probably shoot for ~150ppm. It should change slowly (days/weeks?) as the cuttlebone dissolves.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,
I just wanted to give an update on Redd. So just to recap, last time I bought a cuttlebone and I was actually treating with paraguard.

So these past couple of weeks have been good. So I actually kept treating with the paraguard because I noticed several of his dorsal fins were getting shorter (I think fin rot). 

So I treated him with paraguard and I have actually been him a little bit more food. Just in case I was under feeding him. Maybe that is why he wasn't showing any new growth on his fins.

So just to recap, I think he is getting better. His fins are growing back (and I believe have also gained some volume and as skinny as before) and the bump on his head hasn't shown up (also why I continued the paraguard, just in case a parasite as mentioned in a previous post).

So I took a video of him this morning cause I was happy for his fins to be growing back, but like always I always experience good and bad news. I noticed as I was taking the video it looks like he damaged some scales right above his right eye.

This is kinda how my fish keeping life has been always, a little good news plus some bad news. Never good and good news. Redd's fins appear to be growing back, but he has what looks like some damaged scales above his right eye. Also last week while Redd was looking awesome I lost one of guppies (R.I.P Noodles). 

I haven't used the cuttlebone yet as I didn't what to start changing the water too much (with meds in the water too).

He has been active too as you in the video he even begins to flare up at the my phone while taking the video.

I just hope the damaged scales on his right eye don't turn into something. I always get scared when things happen close to the mouth or eyes of my little guys.

Well here is the link to the video I took this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjBFMu0YYho&list=UU6TvZ-ETMdrJUvgO7oh1kVA

Thank you


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

I'm really glad you are seeing improvement, Jose. I took a look at the video and Redd is moving around really good. He must be channeling his inner plakat.


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Yeah this how he has been these last couple of weeks.

I think he is getting better. I know for certain he is certainly acting better (super active).


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## Jose (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone,
It has been awhile and I hope everyone is having a great start to the new year.

I just wanted to update on Redd.

He appears to be acting fine still. He recently got the bump on his head again. It went away slowly over the course of a week, then came back again this week.

His fins are still healing, but seem to be growing back super slowly. 

I also wanted to mention on Tyson (adopted betta). He seems to rest a whole lot, well I guess he doesn't look as active as Redd. Maybe he is just like that, cause he was as active as Redd since I took him in. I did get him to eat a NLS pellet yesterday (before he would just spit them out). Unfortanely this morning it looks like he lost a scale on the side of his head. 

Well I just wanted to update on Redd and Tyson. I still don't understand this bump that Redd gets. I am thinking maybe it is just some injury that he gets getting. IDK??


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