# Internal Parasite Help Please!



## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Hi everyone,
I am a first time owner of a beta fish named Fantasia who is living in a one gallon fish bowl. One day my little guy began swimming around really rapidly. Several days later he began to swim straight into the plant while later he began to kind of mostly stay in one spot instead of swim around like he normally did. After seeing this I looked online and found out that he most likely had internal parasites due to not having a heater. So, I went to the pet store and bought a heater for $4, API aquarium salt, API General Cure, and I had Epsom Salt on hand already. The past couple of days I cleaned his bowl 100% each day, replaced his marbles from the bottom of the bowl with new ones, and applied the General Cure, aquarium salt, and Epsom salt with each cleaning. He now has a heater and thermometer with the water being 83 degrees right now. After treating him he's been approving a little bit more each day. He now opens his fins and swims around, and has more of an appetite. Still, he swims around slowly. He's not quite as active as he used to be and I already used the General Cure twice. Is there anything else I can do to cure Fantasia?

Thank you for your help in advance!


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## MyRainbowBettaFish (May 9, 2012)

http://www.Bettatalk.com


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*Jungle Anti Parasite Pellets*

Thank you! I'll take a look at it! 

Someone from an older post said that you can put aquarium salt in the water every 12 hours. So I put aquarium salt and epsom salt (dissolved) for a second time today. Never will do this again because Fantasia seemed to do worse. He floats in one spot a lot of the time now. So, now I'll just do a salt treatment once a day when I clean the bowl?

Also, someone from another post said to also use Jungle's Anti-Parasite Pellets TOO. So, tomorrow I'm going to purchase some and try feeding them to him and see how he does!


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## Bladezero (May 14, 2012)

Salt treats only external parasites, I'm almost sure of it.

As for treating, the Jungle's anti parasite should work. I would try a heat treatment first tho.. raise it abit more to 85f, most parasites can't stand that heat. If he gets better great, if you see no improvement in 2-3 days or he's getting worse start the meds.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Thank you so very much Bladezero!  His water is 84 degrees right now and I only added aquarium salt and Epsom salt again (3 days so far). The reason is I found an improvement in him before after adding Epsom salt in the water. He seems to be doing a little bit better today. He's still doesn't have the energy he once had, yet he's making turns while he's swimming rather than only swimming in straight lines, and he swims through his cave sometimes which he hasn't done before. He does twitch from side to side sometimes. 
In terms of his feeding, he refuses to eat brocolli or peas and will only eat his pellets now. So, going to hold off on the internal medicine and try heat and salt for now. 
Thank you once again for your help! It's appreciated very much!


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## Bladezero (May 14, 2012)

About feeding the medicine rubbing some garlic oil should make it more appealing to him(Don't know if its true but I've read it in several places)

Hope he gets better  post a picture of him if you can


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Thanks again!!! Good to know when I feed it to him.
Here are two pictures of him. Sorry, it is from a cell phone camera! 
Oh well.
So, attempting to buy internal medicine asap. Looked everywhere with no luck. So, gotta look online. Still looking! Want him to get better


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Does anyone know of a physical store where you can purchase anti parasite food?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Hello, very interested that someone mentioned the Jungle Parasite Clear. My little guy has internal parasites I believe. I already used API General Cure twice. I ordered Anti Parasite Fish Food online, since I've read that treatment that do not orally go inside the fish are not effective for killing internal parasites. Since someone claimed Jungle Parasite Clear worked for them with internal parasites, do you think I'd be overmedicating Fantasia if I tried it? Or is the product only for external? Thanks a bunch!!!!
I'm accepting the fact that little Fantasia may not make it and be gone soon because I ordered the meds online...... The best bet is to try to make him as comfortable as possible


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## Bladezero (May 14, 2012)

Usually when a med that isn't supposed to counter something, counters "it". It means wrong diagnostics 

This is from the sticky :

*Internal Parasites*
•Symptoms: Betta is losing weight but eating normally and acting lethargic. 
He/she might dart or rub against decor.
•Treatment: These can be hard to fight and can get confused with the fatal disease Tuberculosis. Perform daily 100% water changes (if possible, for larger aquariums change 3/4). Make sure you carefully clean the gravel to remove eggs/larva. Aq.Salt does not seem to be affective against internal parasites. I find combining ES with an anti-parasite med is best. Treat with 1-2tsp/gal Epsom Salt combined with either Jungle’s Anti-Parasite Pellets, Jungle’s Parasite Clear Fizz tabs or API General Cure. PP is also effective against internal parasites.


Epsom salt with one of the meds is the easy treatment.. 

If you think the meds wont be in time do a PP bath, Unfortunately I prefer not to explain how to do it since I never done it myself unlike other stuff I comment.
I'm sure one of the more experienced members will answer how to do it properly


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Hey, really really appreciate your help!!! All of the symptoms above are exactly what my little guy has. I THINK he lost weight, yet not 100% sure. 

OKAY, so I looked up how to do a PP bath. This is what I found.

What to use: 1/2 teaspoon regular salt (another 1/2 teaspoon towards end of bath and 4-5 drops of methylene blue, breeder net, proper sized net, wonder shells (whatever this is), atleast one quart of water, rubber gloves, old towels/rags/paper to spread out (MB stains)

This guy said to use MB at double normal tank strength but I'm going to follow the instructions on the bottle. 
Put in MB then add salt 

Gradually add salt via dissolved solution during the first half of the bath
Good location where no temperature change to place bath container. Read of other people using their bathroom. 
All baths should start with water from the fish's holding tank water.
Throw away bath water after completing each bath.
Use wonder shells.
To minimize stress, perform bath in the morning, let fish swim free, perform bath in the evening before going to bed, then place fish in breeding net over night.
The fish should be in the bath water for 30 minutes at a time.
Be gentle!
1 teaspoon of salt per 1 gallon

I've never done this before, yet this is what I found on another website. The guy also had a video to demonstrate it. He looked like he knew what he was doing. Going to try this! 

Thank you!


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## Bladezero (May 14, 2012)

Good luck, update us


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

HEY! There are bubbles at the top side of his bowl! Hope its a good thing. Fed him frozen blood worms today. After his feeding, he's been doing a little better. He's still twitchy and somewhat lethargic unfortunately. 
Anyway, methylene blue is only sold online it seems. So read that potassium permangate can be substituted for it. At PetSmart they sell "Jungle Lab Water Clear" or "Jungle Lab Clear Water". According to some person, this product is potassium permangate. 
Wonder Shells... can't find those things.
Well, atleast some improvement is better than no improvement so far


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok one of the symptoms when they have internal parasites is white, clear stringy poop. A lot of time along with bloating. Sometimes gray belly...
Is he bloated? Did you see his poop? 

I don't want you confuse external and internal parasites. External parasites he will swim like crazy (darting); try to rub his body on objects, looks like cover with salt or white dots. It usually start on one spots and then spreads....


If it really eternal parasites you need Epsom salt for bloating and it will also help to pass the worms out of the system but it really helps if the fish is eating so he can produce waste too. Dead worms are passed along with poop.

Now there is a post were someone treating it right now with Epsom salt and medications. And he update today that his betta is better. Let me look at the post . I will give you a link so you can see what kind of medications he is using along with Epsom salt.

Now if it external use Aquarium salt. For internal - Epsom salt. Both es and aq salt you can use up to 3teaspoons / gall.

Instructions are the same.

For internal 2 teaspoons/gall pre mix in one gall jug for the right dosage. You will need to make 100% daily water changes along with anti parasites medications.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

just check the post that person treating with Parasite Guard.
Not sure which medications can you find in your store? But first it really important to make sure what he has for sure.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*Symptom leaves...for a while*



ANHEL123 said:


> Ok one of the symptoms when they have internal parasites is white, clear stringy poop. A lot of time along with bloating. Sometimes gray belly...
> Is he bloated? Did you see his poop?
> 
> I don't want you confuse external and internal parasites. External parasites he will swim like crazy (darting); try to rub his body on objects, looks like cover with salt or white dots. It usually start on one spots and then spreads....
> ...


Thank you very, very much for your input!! 

Didn't know it at the time, yet now realize Fantasia has been sick ever since I bought him from the pet shop. Grrr. 

Hmmm...... I've never seen white, stringy poop hang from his body. After cleaning his bowl every day, noticed stringy 'brown' stuff at the bottom once or twice. Normal poop? Can't really tell if he's actually bloated. Also not sure if his belly is grey, but the color is faided there, along with a faded color on his head (hole in the head?) and sides. There is also a reddish color by his gills/eye (s). Sometimes, he swam around with his gills open. Swam in circles yet he hasn't been doing this anymore. He doesn't have normal energy for a betta. Swims around, stops in place, swims, then stops in place. Yesterday his tail looked different, as if it was partially close to together- does not spread out all the way completely. There are other symptoms too.

Began using Parasite Guard last night with epsom salt and aquarium salt. 
Actually heard from someone else that heat treatment can stress out the fish, cause the parasites to become dormant and than come back later more aggressively. So, now tried keeping his water temperature normal. (75-82 degrees) Also, the Parasite Guard box says threadlike worms hanging from its body are a sign of external parasites. 

It's helping him some. Thank you! After putting the Parasite Guard his moving his head from side to side really quickly has stopped as well as his running into things or swimming really fast all of a sudden. They have stopped. Yet, around lunch time today his head moving quickly from side to side is coming back again with having less movements now. 

So, maybe will continue using the Parasite Guard, epsom salt/aquarium salt every day and wait for the medicated fish food to come in the mail next week ATLEAST for prevention. Thinking of cleaning his bowl now and this time not putting his marbles in. How will I know if he gets stressed out by not having the marbles. What would be the signs? 

Also, looked up fish terbucolosis and I do not think he has it. Do not see any wounds or sores on his body and the shape of his spine/back looks normal to me. Yet, after looking at him through a flash light, noticed some lumps or bumps on his body. 

Anyway, atleast Parasite Guard is saving his life. Ha. Holding off on the PP bath for a last resort??


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Just want to write you something really fast. I was afraid you will log out.
I time to read what you wrote i am at work. But stop medications. And you cannot use all 3 of them . You need only Epsom salt or aq salt. I need to read what you wrote. Give me a time. But it too tooo too much. I would start doing 50% water changes every 2 hrs for a few times. You are overdosing him with all those medications. And we not even sure if he has internal parasites. And since his poop brown which is normal color you don't need medications.

Don't panic. You didn't know it not your foult. That is why you are here. 

I will give you more instructions or i hope other people too.
But first start 50% water changes.
When you change the water don't forget conditioner and try new temperature should be +-2-4 * the same as his temperature. Acclimate him carefully for 5 min or so don't just put him in the new water.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

If you can start doing water changes and then give us update. I think he might need aquarium salt which i will give you advice, but first i need you to get rid of all those medications and epsom salt. He is very stressed and needs just clean water. 

Is he still eating?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Eeek. I'll stop using all meds for now. So, a PP bath wouldn't be good either because it involves chemicals?
Fantasia has a one gallon bowl. 50% water change every two hours for a few times with trying new temperature (not too drastic). Maybe keep the marbles in then while doing this. 
Tonight, I won't be home for atleast 5 hours. So maybe change it before I leave, then do it again when I come back home!

Appreciate your kind encourage to not panic and for your willingness to help!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Y'know when I used aq alone I didn't see any improvement in him, but I DID see improvement with epsom salt. Perhaps I should ONLY use epsom salt. He will not eat brocolli or peas. One time with brocolli, he ate one little bud then would not eat the others. He eats his pellets and gobbled down his frozen blood worms. Today I fed him frozen brine shrimp. He'd put it in his mouth, spit it out, then eat them.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes change him when you can. I want to see how he doing and than decide what the next step is. 
It ok we all learning. At least you ask for help, some people don't do this  I hope we will be able to help him.

Is he eating at all?


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## xfeejayx (May 19, 2012)

I'm the guy treating with parasite guard, and my fish is finally doing ok.

Stop the fancy broccoli and pea feeding business. Stick with fish food. He needs protein for strength, and most fish food is at least 40% protein. Maybe even get a fish food with shrimp so you get more protein. The epsom salt should get him pooping.

I've been using epsom salt with parasite guard for 6 days now (100% change every other day with new parasite guard treatment and salt). The combination of those two got my fish active and eating again, but I don't know if it was one or both medications. 

I think I'm finally at the point where I'm comfortable with taking him off the parasite guard. I'm going to keep treating with epsom salt, but lower dosage for a few days, then take him off that.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Definately and thank you!! Hopefully he can heal from his sickness! 

Does someone know that when I am doing a 50% water change, do I getthe poop out somehow if there is any or not worry about it for now?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

xfeejayx said:


> I'm the guy treating with parasite guard, and my fish is finally doing ok.
> 
> Stop the fancy broccoli and pea feeding business. Stick with fish food. He needs protein for strength, and most fish food is at least 40% protein. Maybe even get a fish food with shrimp so you get more protein. The epsom salt should get him pooping.
> 
> ...


Hello! Great, thank you. So, it is SAFE to use epsom salt and Parasite Guard together? Or like the other person said, to only use Epsom salt with 50% water changes every 2 hours. If it is safe I'd like to use both because Parasite Guard has helped.

Glad to hear that your fish is recovering. Great news!!!!  Gives hope too


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## xfeejayx (May 19, 2012)

Parasite guard and Epsom salt together are safe.

His concern is that you were using aquarium salt and epsom salt together. Don't do that. Do the water changes he's recommending to get Fantasia back to a comfortable, known water level. Then do Epsom+PG.

My plan is to ween Baloo off the Epsom, then switch to aquarium salt after a few days to help him recover.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Guys wait. Yes i was helping xfreejayx before. But i wan and i guess other people sure that his fish has internal parasites.

Now in your situations we not sure. 

Yes it is safe to treat with Epsom salt and medications if fish has internal parasites. 

Your fish has normal brown poop i doubt that he has internal parasites. So you don't want to give him wrong medications. It very important to know why we treating him

Epsom salt treats one symptoms/disease and aquarium salt for different symptoms.

I think xfreejayx wrote it because he though that your fish has internal parasites.

Sorry we all confused you here.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Post at the same time 
xfreejayx i don't think he has internal parasites 
dbrook when is last time you change the water?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I think xreejayx just saw name of your post that why he though that ...
xreejayx just treated fish with internal parasites, i am glad he feels better


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## xfeejayx (May 19, 2012)

I'm with ANHEL (and spell my name right!). Your fish doesn't look bad. Baloo's fins are all clamped, he's got lots of fin melt, he was bloating, not eating, not moving...Your fish still looks pretty good!

I'd stop with the treatments and get him in clean water for now. 

Make sure that heater is working right (get a thermometer). Temp should be 78-82 F (74-84 is fine too, but not ideal).

Go back to regular fish food, and try a couple different kinds. Baloo used to eat pellets every day, and now he can't eat them, spits them back out.

Once he's in clean water, stop doing daily 100% changes. I honestly think I was stressing Baloo out with daily 100% changes, so I went to 100% every other day. I'm going to do one last one tonight, then go down to 50-75% or something every other day.

I understand your fish may be acting more and more different, but it might be because you are behaving more and more different. He might just need to be treated normally for him to go back to normal.

Also, GET A BETTER CAMERA. There could be a bunch of other things that he can/can't have. The clear pictures I took (with my phone btw) helped these guys point out that I had misdiagnosed baloo with velvet. Clear pictures can make a BIG difference. I just took a bunch of random ones and put them up for opinion.

Baloo changed color in a matter of days. Some fins turned red, then gold. His head went from black to green. He got skinnier, then the bloating happened a weak later.

This is a sick fish:









before pic, and this is after his behavior totally changed and he stopped eating, so even this pic is after he was sick for a week:


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

xfreejayx when you will start doing regular water changes do 1-50% and 1-100% water changes for one gallon.

Also if we need to treat fish with aq salt or epsom salt 100% water changes are necessary 

Now dbrooke kind of put too much medications so i need him to do 50% to get rid of all salts and medications and you don't want to do drastic changes to the water to stress him even more


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Thank you...... (I am a she btw  )Bought new fish food called Tetra Betta Plus. It has shrimp meal in one of the ingredients (as well as fish meal). He ate it quickly and he seems to have slight improvement after eating it. It helps! So, its alright to still give him blood worms/brine shrimp/piece of salmon on a special occasion, right? He seems to act slightly better after eating blood worms when he did. I feed him pellets mostly though. 
Even before treatment started he was acting funny anyway. 
Thinking of doing 100% water change with parasite guard and gradually give less epsom salt (and switch to aquarium salt later). Yet, honestly I saw improvement with epsom salt!! Hmmm...... How can I do it every 2 hours without stressing him out? Place him in a breeding net SOMETIMES between changes? Or only do it once a day? Or every other day? 


The last change was a 50% one 10 hours ago. Perhaps I'll try a 50% water change with no treatment starting tomorrow and see.

He's twitching yet not AS much right now. 

Here's some pics of him taken with a digital camera. In one of them you can see redness around his gill. You can also see lumps.

To the man who was using PG, glad that your fish is doing better.  Great.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sorry for saying two different things about treatment!! Perhaps I'll try a 100% water change with Parasite Guard with aquarium salt tomorrow morning, then do it every other day. Wonder if its safe to immediately change from Epsom salt to aquarium salt.


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## xfeejayx (May 19, 2012)

If the Epsom salt is helping, stick with it. He looks bloated to me. That Epsom salt might be exactly what he needs.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok the questions that I am going to ask are very important. I want to understand and make sure he don’t have internal parasites. You need to stop parasite guard if he don’t have it. You don’t want to treat wrong symptoms with wrong medications. 

I need to know how much pellets and blood worms did you give him to understand if he is bloated due to overfeeding, which I think he is. Did he get bloated after you gave him food or he was like that before? 
Also I didn’t hear anyone feed bettas with salmon. Did you feed him with raw salmon? I feed my bettas with cooked shrimp. If you you gave him raw salmon then he might get parasites from it Also freeze dried blood worms you can give him. But no more 4 pieces at one time it can cause the bloating if you give too many.

If his poop like you wrote brown and he is bloated due to food it not internal parasites. 

The fact that you wrote that he began swimming rapidly can be due to external parasites also.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Redness around his gills looks to me like his normal coloration unless it something new?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok if he is bloated not due to food and it internal parasites then you need only Epsom salt which helps with bloating and medications.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Now i want to give you instructions with salts treatment. I want you to understand how to do it.

First when you treating with salt. You cannot mix aquarium salt and Epsom salt. You need to use one of it.

Second for example xfreejayx treated internal parasites with epsom salt and medications which is fine. Epsom salt helps with bloating, helps to pass the worms out of the system. Also when fish eating and produce waste it helps to pass worms out.

Now aquarium salt and epsom salt both have antibacterial/fungul effect.

When you treat fish with salt you must to do 100% water changes DAILY

You need to pre mix salt in one gallon jug for the right dosage and do daily 100% water changes.

A lot of time symptoms can be confused. For example when you wrote that your fish twitching. This symptom can be with internal parasites or external, or even because you was using too much medications.

So most important for your fish now to understand what is really a problem. So you don't treat him with wrong medications and still stressing him out and still left him sick.

So if you help to figure it out….

Watch his poop again. You wrote it brown. It important. Is it stringy like. Normal poo can be brown, color the food you gave him, short stringy and then round, round....

Internal parasites white,clear stringy,wormy shape,long transparent trailing string.Sometimes the most severe cases even have the poop containing tiny whitish worms that are still alive


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

thanks!! i've seen noticeable improvements with epsom salt and paraside guard together......
omgoodness, there is a chance i have overfed him bloodworms yesterday and the day before yesterday.  this might be it. its the kind where you place it in a freezer and its one frozen block before you cut it up. never use live ones and haven't tried salmon yet but thought about trying it once a week 
always have fed him 3pellets max according to the fish food instructuions. (new ones say 3-4) so, maybe watch his bloating for the next few days to see if it goes down and continue to feed him 3 pellets......
the redness on his gill is new i think... it would have been good to have taken a pic of him with the good camera like over a week ago


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Now i want to give you instructions with salts treatment. I want you to understand how to do it.
> 
> First when you treating with salt. You cannot mix aquarium salt and Epsom salt. You need to use one of it.
> 
> ...


his twitching, swimming really fast, and running into the plant started before before using any treatment. the only thing he had was water conditioner. yesterday morning his temperature was around 80 and he was doing well. later around lunch time he was moving his head quickly from side to side again (twitchy). his water temp was 83 or 84 at that time.
his poop was shaped worm like. stringy, yet brown...
i didn't have a heater for him until i noticed his strange movements, 8 days ago. he has a heater now


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

like xfeejayx said a while ago, try doing clean water and see how he does. for clean water do 50% daily, for treatment 100% daily. yet try 50% for clean water now


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

.......................


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok i will put a few threads it easier for me like that....

Don’t feed with raw salmon he can get internal parasites. But you can feed with cooked shrimp. Little tiny pieces of that (size of the pellets)

I don’t know redness look like the same color that he has on his body. If it new it might be a problem, but if it not new it just his normal coloration

Frozen bloodworms –break off a tiny piece(careful not to overfeed!) of the block they’re frozen in and drop it into the tank. It melts almost instantly.You can feed these once or twice a week as a meal replacement. Make sure remove anything he left from the water so it not contaminates it. 

My fish live in pretty low temperature 74*. But 76-80 is perfect for bettas. I read on this forum that for some bettas too warm temperature can be stressful.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

I did spoke to someone else about your fish. So it not only my decision.
One more question actually is his poop looks like a super fine hair shape?

So since we can’t really decide what he has. And especially you wrote that he is better with medications, and you already started medications it better to finish it. So go ahad 

Finish the course of that along with Epsom salt. 

Now I don’t know instructions on the box You to do 100% daily water changes.
Post or write instructions and I will tell you what to do.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Use 2 tsp/gall pre mixed Epsom salt.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

the red spot on his gills may very well be his natural coloration. i was probably freaking out about it unnesassarily.
okay, i think i found out why he twitches and opens his gills sometimes. noticed today that he sees his own reflection in his bowl. this may be what is causing it. haha. (hopefully) as to his lack of energy last week as to why i began treatment, unsure why.
he's in cean water right now. he's swimming around his bowl like normal. maybe he was stressed? or his water temp wasn't good or i didn't clean it enough? i don't know. had it cleaned once a week, yet found out a one gallon bowl has to be cleaned twice a week.
oh, saw his poop again this morning. it was brown, round and then it was string shaped at the end.
continuing to monitor him an his feeding. fed him 3 small peices of blood worms before. now learning only one small peice is plenty. watching his bloating too and see if it goes away by tomorrow


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Everything that you wrote completely normal. 

I didn't realize that he was flaring when you wrote about twitches and open his gills. 

Like i wrote you before in those 5 pages when they open their mouth and gills even when they swim it is normal.

Not sure but I think that his bloating is due to food. So now you know how much you fed him and it too much so just feed less. Like I wrote before blood worms you can give him 2 times a week as a meal , meaning instead of the pellets 

Poop that you just described is normal.

Yes do 1-100% and 1-50% water changes a week. Make sure water temp +-2 * when you change him. If you need i can give advice how to do it.

Edit: i have bettas at work in one gallon for long time. I just can't have bigger tank at work anyway . I do 100% every 4 days. Also working pretty good. 

Also when you put betta back in the tank i usually add to the container with betta a little bit of the new water. Hold him for a minute and then i put him in the tank.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Everything that you wrote completely normal.
> 
> I didn't realize that he was flaring when you wrote about twitches and open his gills.
> 
> ...


great!  yeah, must of confused all of you with my freaking out about his so called twitches. he's my first betta, yet you expained a lot. will definately do all thats been advised. learned a lot!!!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Please keep us update , good luck


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Thanks a bunch!  Appreciate your help. So, lately he seems happy and healthy. The only thing is I think he is still bloated. The last couple of days I've fed him 4 pellets twice a day when I wake up and at night. Do not know if its true but someone said in a different site to feed them a part of a pea to take care of the bloating.
Otherwise, he's made a small bubble nest and swims around his bowl.


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## xfeejayx (May 19, 2012)

No pea. It does more harm than good. The Epsom salt will make him poop if that's what you need.

Also, eight pellets is a bit too much, especially if you think he's bloated.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pea won't hurt but it should be reserved for emergencies. 

Sorry, I haven't read through the entire thread but it sounds like this guy is bloated? Have you seen any white pieces in his poop? If not, then the bloating is probably not due to internal parasites but to constipation and overfeeding. 

I would suggest removing the gravel from his bowl so you can monitor his poop for a few days. If you haven't already, put 1 tsp of epsom salt per gallon into his bowl. Change the water every other day and redo the salt. 

Also, welcome to the forum.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*epsom salt and feeding*

okay, good to know!! the instructions from his pellets said 4 to 6 for a serving twice a day. how much should i really be feeding him? a serving of 2 or 3 twice a day?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Probably 2 pellets twice a day would be good. Bettas are little piggies and would eat until they were round as marbles if we let them.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Pea won't hurt but it should be reserved for emergencies.
> 
> Sorry, I haven't read through the entire thread but it sounds like this guy is bloated? Have you seen any white pieces in his poop? If not, then the bloating is probably not due to internal parasites but to constipation and overfeeding.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks a lot! No, his poop was completely normal last time I changed his bowl 3 days ago. Brown, round with a little string at the end. I'll change his bowl tonight and use epsom salt and watch for it. Is it okay to keep the marbles in? Don't want him to get stressed. Ha.

He doesn't have internal parasites though. He has had normal behavior and poop. I've been overfeeding him and need to feed him less


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> Probably 2 pellets twice a day would be good. Bettas are little piggies and would eat until they were round as marbles if we let them.


They ARE like piggies...... Cute ones. 

Would it be alright to feed him 3 twice a day? The reason I'm asking is because someone else said two would be kind of under feeding him. I don't know. I'll do 2 for now. : )


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's always best to underfeed than overfeed a fish, especially a betta. It's best to feed several very small meals a day, so if you can feed him 3 times a day, I would feed something like 2 pellets for the first two meals and maybe a bloodworm or two for the last meal.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Absolutely agreed. It bad idea to overfeed them. And no matter how much you give them they will not stop. They remind me of my dog lol She always wants to eat not stop. We rescued her 11 month ago and she was 40 lb now she is 65 lb. So bettas just want to eat all the time and can get sick (bloated, which can lead to SBD)

I am glad he doing good


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sakura8 and Anhel123, I'm sorry that I didn't respond to your messages. I wasn't on the site. 



ANHEL123 said:


> Absolutely agreed. It bad idea to overfeed them. And no matter how much you give them they will not stop. They remind me of my dog lol She always wants to eat not stop. We rescued her 11 month ago and she was 40 lb now she is 65 lb. So bettas just want to eat all the time and can get sick (bloated, which can lead to SBD)
> 
> I am glad he doing good


Can see why your betta would remind you of your dog. Haha, your dog gained quite a bit of weight!! Sounds like he may be a bigger breed. He may be healthy now. Good to hear you adopted him and he has a good life.  
My last dog passed away some time ago so hopefully able to adopt another one when I'm in my own place. 
Thankfully, Fantasia the fish eats well and swims around still. He's still bloated so hopefully can take care of it before he has a chance to develop SBD. 



Sakura8 said:


> It's always best to underfeed than overfeed a fish, especially a betta. It's best to feed several very small meals a day, so if you can feed him 3 times a day, I would feed something like 2 pellets for the first two meals and maybe a bloodworm or two for the last meal.


Thanks. Okay, I'll try feeding him two pellets twice a day and then feed him ONE bloodworm at night. He's still bloated so I changed his water last night and put two teaspoons of Epsom salt in there before putting Fantasia in.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*Water change*

Last night when I was changing my fish's bowl, I put water in his temporary container, which I think is one of the smallest sized fish bowls you can buy in a pet store. (Should probably use a bigger temporary holding place if I get a chance to find one.) 
I tried having his new water within 3 degrees of his old water and used a thermometer. In his small fish bowl I put one capful of Prime water conditioner in. (Oh, and this time I forgot to put some of the new water in his old water to help adjust him.  ) After placing Fantasia in the new temporary water I've noticed an almost immediate slight change in his tail/fins appearance. It looked VERY SLIGHTLY shriveled, and the color in his top red fin SLIGHTLY faded. Now, it's barely a lighter red. This was before putting him in his newly cleaned home. 
This is the first time its happened. Was there something wrong with his water temperature? Or maybe there was too much water conditioner in the small temporary bowl? 
The directions for Prime says, "Use 1 capful (5mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons) of new water. For smaller volumes, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL)." and so on. I've been putting a full capful in his water.  Maybe put 1 cap thread of conditioner? (1 gallon) 

Thanks!! Apologize for my very many questions!!!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> Everything that you wrote completely normal.
> 
> I didn't realize that he was flaring when you wrote about twitches and open his gills.
> 
> ...


When changing the fish bowl, I normally put water in a smaller container, test it with the thermometer, and keep doing this until I get the right temperature. To make sure the water temp is +-2 degrees, how do you change your tank?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's pretty hard to overdose on water conditioner BUT 1 capful for 1 gallon is pretty extreme. Prime is highly concentrated. If you buy the smallest bottle they sell, it has a little pull-out nozzle that makes drops. The instructions on that bottle say to use 2 drops per gallon. That's how concentrated it is. What I've done is get a small bottle to get the cap and then a big bottle and switch the caps (they fit). Otherwise, you can get an eyedropper and use that to add just 2 drops. You can add up to 3-4 drops per gallon but I think a whole capful might be too much.


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

How is he doing. Yes you put a little bit too much of the Prime. Sakura sorry i am repeating what you already wrote. Any size of the Prime bottle that in the store you will need to use 2 drops per 1 gall. And like Sakura wrote i love the smallest bottle because it has dropper lid which again will feats all other size prime bottles. 

When you change him you can keep him in that small container in his original water, while you cleaning his bowl. Or you can have a little bit prepare water and then put him in with a little bit original water.

I usually prepare water in the gallon to make sure it right dosage of water conditioner since it 2 drops per gall.
Also one suggestion. Only if it easier for you. If he is in the room temperature water.You can prepare water for him day before. Put Prime in and let it stay for 24 hrs. This way new water temperature exactly the same as his. I do that all the time. Or in the winter i have water that is i prepared overnight and warmer water that i prepare 25 min ago. So i am mixing them to reach the temperature i need.

Sorry i hope i didn't confused anyone.

How is he doing? And is his poop normal color?


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> It's pretty hard to overdose on water conditioner BUT 1 capful for 1 gallon is pretty extreme. Prime is highly concentrated. If you buy the smallest bottle they sell, it has a little pull-out nozzle that makes drops. The instructions on that bottle say to use 2 drops per gallon. That's how concentrated it is. What I've done is get a small bottle to get the cap and then a big bottle and switch the caps (they fit). Otherwise, you can get an eyedropper and use that to add just 2 drops. You can add up to 3-4 drops per gallon but I think a whole capful might be too much.


Ok. There are a number of eye drops already at hand here. So, an eye dropper for a human is the right size? Thanks.



ANHEL123 said:


> How is he doing. Yes you put a little bit too much of the Prime. Sakura sorry i am repeating what you already wrote. Any size of the Prime bottle that in the store you will need to use 2 drops per 1 gall. And like Sakura wrote i love the smallest bottle because it has dropper lid which again will feats all other size prime bottles.
> 
> When you change him you can keep him in that small container in his original water, while you cleaning his bowl. Or you can have a little bit prepare water and then put him in with a little bit original water.
> 
> ...


Great, good to know. 
He's doing alright. He's still acting the same. His poop is brown still when I changed his bowl last night. He's not as bloated as before but I think he still is. So, going to do the change with epsom salt again tomorrow morning for the third time.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Wondering if it would be helpful to let him fast, or if it would not be necessary......


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He can stay in epsom salt for as long as it takes to get him back down to regular size. I'm glad his poop is still brown, that means no parasites. 

And yes, a human eyedropper will work just fine.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Okay, its great to know one can't use epsom salt for too long as long as they need it. 
......Read somewhere that fasting your fish for one day once a week prevents SBD......


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Fasting your fish can help, yes. It gives their bodies time to catch up and digest. In captivity, bettas probably eat waaaay more than they ever would be able to hunt down in the wild so their digestive systems sometimes fall behind.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

> In his small fish bowl I put one capful of Prime water conditioner in.


 Holy cow.. that's a lot of conditioner! How's he doing on the correct dose?

I don't fast my fish. I just feed them the amount that keeps them healthy, which is different for each fish (the very big one eats 8 a day, twice as much as the smallest who gets 4..). If Cleo happens to get hold of a shrimp or shrimp food and gets a fat tummy, I just cut her food back a few days to one, two pellets. If I fast her she stresses out terribly, and then systematically murders all the shrimp..

With less food, no medications and one or 2 drops of conditioner, your guy should be looking pretty good in no time. All the best to him!


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Aus said:


> Holy cow.. that's a lot of conditioner! How's he doing on the correct dose?
> 
> I don't fast my fish. I just feed them the amount that keeps them healthy, which is different for each fish (the very big one eats 8 a day, twice as much as the smallest who gets 4..). If Cleo happens to get hold of a shrimp or shrimp food and gets a fat tummy, I just cut her food back a few days to one, two pellets. If I fast her she stresses out terribly, and then systematically murders all the shrimp..
> 
> With less food, no medications and one or 2 drops of conditioner, your guy should be looking pretty good in no time. All the best to him!


Thank you! With the right dosage of the conditioner his behavior seems more or less the same. 
Experimented with fasting him yesterday to see how he would do. He seemed inactive the later part of the day. Began feeding him today and there's more movement in him. Will continue to watch, yet maybe also won't fast him......

Okay, yesterday noticed his tail/fin is getting shorter and the end of it does not look as pretty as usual. It seems impossible he would have fin rot because his bowl has been washed 100% every other day (2 teaspoons of epsom salt for his bloating last several days). His bloating is pretty much gone now I think. If it's still there I don't see it much. Anyway, his temp was 84 degrees earlier today yet is now 83. After his last water change the day before yesterday it was 80 degrees. Too much temp fluctuation? Epsom salt shouldn't do this, right? His plant has a couple of leaves that had ends which were turning yellow so ripped the ends off. His fins/tail could be rubbing against the ripped off parts? 
Changing his water 100% today and discontinuing epsom salt, completely take out the leaf which were mentioned and replacing his ornament to another one which is round that I have just in case...... :|


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

You wrote that his tail getting shorter. Is there any other changes in his tail? Can you post the picture?
You wrote that he is inactive the later part of the day. Did his behavior changes a lot? Like laying on the bottom or hanging in one corner?

When you change the water are you trying to make new water around the same temperature that he already in?

I don't like temperature fluctuations. But +- 4 i think every one have in the summer time. Since i am sure people don't use heaters during the summer. We have hot summer and my temperature fluctuate even more than that. My bettas are fine.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Remember that the temps would fluctuate in the wild, too, so I think bettas are a little more resistant to temp fluctuations than we give them credit for. 

Does his tail look as if it has U-shaped chunks taken out of it or does the ends look stringly, scraggly, or shredded?


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes you right about temperature. My temperature fluctuate really a lot now. The weather here like 82* during the day and in the morning sometimes my house 74*-76. In the morning i always run downstairs to check on them. Look like they don't care. I think because the temperature go down gradually...


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yes, exactly, BETTACHKA. When the fluctuation is very sudden, that's when it shocks their little system. But a gradual change, like overnight, usually is okay.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

ANHEL123 said:


> You wrote that his tail getting shorter. Is there any other changes in his tail? Can you post the picture?
> You wrote that he is inactive the later part of the day. Did his behavior changes a lot? Like laying on the bottom or hanging in one corner?
> 
> When you change the water are you trying to make new water around the same temperature that he already in?
> ...





Sakura8 said:


> Remember that the temps would fluctuate in the wild, too, so I think bettas are a little more resistant to temp fluctuations than we give them credit for.
> 
> Does his tail look as if it has U-shaped chunks taken out of it or does the ends look stringly, scraggly, or shredded?


Another thing that is noticeable in his tail/fin is that his color is partially faded. 
Yesterday, when I was fasting him he seemed to float in one spot in the middle (neither on the top or bottom). Then later, he began staying at the bottom. As soon as I saw this, I'd start walking up to his bowl. As soon as he'd see me he began swimming. (Probably thought I was going to feed him) 
So, I just now got home and was gone for 5 hours. Today, he has been mostly swimming around all day until literally just now as I'm typing this. He floats near the (not at, but near) top. Oh, he's swimming around again but not AS active as I'd like him to be. Maybe his fasting had nothing to do with it......
When I change the water it can be max 3+- degrees difference and get him adjusted to the water by putting some new water in his old within 5 mins. Anhel123, you DID say to have the water temps to be the same I remember! Terrible. I'll do that for now on. 
Anyway, after putting him in temporary water to change his bowl 5 days ago, his dorsal fin color partially faded it seemed immediately when he went into the new water. The poor little guy must of gotten stressed! Now not only his dorsal fin, but his tail is also somewhat faded.
I don't think his fins/tail are U shaped, but it is definately stringly and scraggly. Took a few pictures and will post them up. You'll definately notice when you see it.

Thank you!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

When a fish loses color, it usually does mean stress. If he colors back up within an hour or so, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. But if it stays faded out AND he's losing fins, he probably has fin rot.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Wow, really? His bowl has been cleaned every other day and I last cleaned it during lunch time today. His temp is 83 degrees right now according to the thermometer. What would cause his fin rot if its what it is?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Fin rot is basically a bacterial infection that invades an open wound so if he tore his tail and bacteria got in there, it could have infected it. Because he doesn't feel well, his immune system is weak right now and he's having a hard time fighting infections off.

I know, it always seems so weird when a fish gets sick despite all the best care.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Right, okay. 
Looked up fin rot and found one website. It said a betta can have fin rot even from the temperature being too warm consistently. Could his water be warmer than it should be? After I just got Fantasia, I bought this cheap-o heater which is non-adjustable. It stays a few degrees higher than room temperature. I can purchase a new heater that is adjustable? (It would be safer anyway) 
Perhaps he flared too much when I put a mirror by his bowl. Yet, I put the mirror by his bowl max 5 mins. Until he is completely healthy, no longer going to use the mirror at all. 
This website I mentioned recommended using Jungle Fungus Eliminator or Tetracycline to treat fin rot. Perhaps I should buy medicine. 
When his water temp is 82 degrees or below he seems to be more active. If its over this he seems to move A LITTLE BIT more slowly...... Atleast from observation. New heater!
:|


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I keep my bettas at around 78-80 but 82 is okay if he's happy in it. They really like warm waters. 

If the edges of his tail also look black, it's definitely fin rot. Otherwise it could very easily be from flaring too much. Lots of male bettas suffer "fin blowout." And in all reality, tears and rips are pretty common with these fish, just because the tails are so long and fragile.

If you CAN get an adjustable heater, I'd recommend doing so even if the temp is okay, just because there may be times when you want to raise the temperature higher, like when treating ich or velvet. Although I hope you never have to deal with those parasites. They're a pain.

Fungus Eliminator probably won't help much just because fin rot is a bacteria. You can buy the tetracycline to have on hand but I'd hold off on using it for a day.

Usually the best treatment for fin rot is clean water with some AQ salt.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Yep, the edges of his tail are black......
Will get a new heater and will keep it at 80 degrees. 
His bowl was cleaned earlier today. Would I have to clean it AGAIN and use Aquarium salt? If so, would it be harmful to wait until tomorrow morning to change it since I already did so today? Hope this little guy gets better.
Hopefully your fish have recovered from the parasites!  They do not sound like it would be fun at all.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*Pictures*

Here are the pictures.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Things to buy: 

1) Small PH test kit

2.) Vitamins for bettas

3) medicine for emergency. tetracyclin or ampicillin
*ordered medicated flake food a while back. oxytetracycline (antibiotic for bacteria). yet, its food so assuming it's not for "water" 

!!!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

His tail isn't normally like that? He looks like a crowntail to me and I don't see fin rot. :/ Handsome boy, love his coloring.

The food you ordered can work for him, if it was for fish. Medicated food usually works best for internal bacterial infections but there's no reason not to try it if he's got fin rot. But again, I have to admit he looks like a normal crowntail betta to me. 

I'd go with tetracycline over ampicillin. While a lot of bacterias have developed resistances to both meds, tetracycline treats a broader range of diseases, I believe.

If your water is even just a bit hard, a crowntail's rays tend to curl up or kink. This doesn't harm them at all, it just can look a little funny.

 Yes, the fish I had with ich did get better but the fish with velvet did not. He was a "rescue" from the pet store and the velvet was pretty far progressed. He fought it for almost a week but his poor body just gave out.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

He looks like a perfectly normal crowntail, to me.

Reading this thread - he's had a lot of fussing done/medications/overfeeding..

Try not fussing so much?  I'm sure we have all done it, to some degree. But I find it sucks the fun out of fishkeeping, not to mention causing panic attacks over little things that aren't all that bad/easily remedied. 

Warm, clean, conditioned water changed regularly, no salt or medications, good food in a proper amount.. Give him two weeks solid of that simple care, and see how he does.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> His tail isn't normally like that? He looks like a crowntail to me and I don't see fin rot. :/ Handsome boy, love his coloring.
> 
> The food you ordered can work for him, if it was for fish. Medicated food usually works best for internal bacterial infections but there's no reason not to try it if he's got fin rot. But again, I have to admit he looks like a normal crowntail betta to me.
> 
> ...





Aus said:


> He looks like a perfectly normal crowntail, to me.
> 
> Reading this thread - he's had a lot of fussing done/medications/overfeeding..
> 
> ...


Oh gee, I embarrased myself...... Maybe at night he was a little inactive because he was either resting or bored. Going to turn in his bowl for a 2.5 gal bowl tomorrow.
Thank you. He eats pellets called "Betta Tetra Plus" and they bring out his color more. 
It's good to know the ends of his tail is not something to worry about.
Okay, I've now got no further questions!  Thank you all sooo much for your great help! I really do appreciate it.
Wow, I'm glad your fish with Ich recovered and is now better! Great to hear.  I am sorry to hear about your other fish!  How sad.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He looks very good, dbrooke.  You're doing a fine job with him.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Thank you so much, Sakura8! Feels good.  All of us are learning!


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

There's nothing embarrassing about caring for your betta. 

I'm sure he'll enjoy his new tank.


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## BETTACHKALOVE (Nov 22, 2010)

Looks good
You really can keep 78* for him. 
And i think Sakura already wrote about acclamation. Every time when you change him make sure you acclimate him properly. If you need instructions let us know


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

thanks aus and bettachkalove. when i change him, i take his old water and put it in his temporary bowl, then the little guy. before placing him in his clean bowl, i put some of the new water in the old water he's in a few times in 5 mins. then, bring him into the bowl. what do you think?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yup, that works for acclimation just fine.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

*a small hole*

Ok. Thanks! 

Grrr, hopefully one more thing. This small hole appeared in his fin today...... 
Weekly 100% water changes for his 2.5 gal tank, continue feeding him food high in protein, and watching his fin!! Ha


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pinholes like that can occur for any number of reasons. Some of it is just regular wear and tear; these bettas we love so much have been bred to have such large fins that those fins tend to be rather fragile. If the pinhole gets bigger or develops dark black edges, then we can worry but for now, I'd say keep a close eye on it and lots of clean water like you plan to do.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

Daughter's new betta Cole got one of those his dorsal half an hour after we got him home and I was :shock: oh noes! A couple of hours later, it was gone. Then he got one in his tail.. :| That sealed right back up again, too. Seems he wasn't used to spreading his fins in that weeny little cup and had a couple of blowouts.. Sakura has it right, best to watch it, but it may just be a result of him flaring or just swimming about a lot.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, yeah, I remember when my first betta Sherman got his first fin tear. Talk about major panic. Now his fins are just so raggedy with age that I don't even care anymore. As long as the tears are healthy and the water is clean, I know he'll be fine.


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## dbrooke1 (May 29, 2012)

Great, sounds good!!  
After seeing the hole for the first time was like, "Why is THAT there?! OMGOODNESS." Then, realized there wasn't a need to worry again. Also, the hole is getting smaller and you can barely see it now.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's ridiculously amazing how fast their fins grow.


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