# Goldfish and cycling...?



## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I recently had the misfortune of moving back home..Anyways, My sister, who is an adult, has these 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. I have tried several times to get her to get a 20G but she flat out refuses. I am NOT buying her or giving her my 20G.* I am not gonna argue with people over the 10 gallon tank. *Last year there were 5 goldfish :shock: she is now down to 2

What I what I want to know is about cycling. She only changes the water "when it gets dirty" which is like once every 2 months. I have a siphon so I can at least give the poor things clean water every week. The thing is...This tank has a filter that has been running for 3 years BUT she has been doing 100% water changes. I don't do filters, even when I had my 20G and 10G's (I did alot of water changes a week), so what I want to know is, with the monthly 100% changes, is the tank cycled? And if it is, does gravel siponing suck up all the bacteria on the gravel? There are like 2 small plastic plants and that's about it for decor. The bacteria live on decor and in the filter, right? 

I tested their water yesterday and the ammonia was between .25-.50 
Nitrites, I dont remember the number but it was on the middle of the chart and by the time i got to nitrates, she was throwing things at me screaming get out of my room.


I dont know what kind of goldies they are. They arent feeder fish, the dont have tumors growing out of their head, nor do they have bubble or telescope eyes. They are rather round and shiny with long flowing 3 pronged tails - like a veil. They are orange and white.

EDIT:

this is them like a year ago. Now their tails are like 3 inches long


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I recently had the misfortune of moving back home..Anyways, My sister, who is an adult, has these 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. I have tried several times to get her to get a 20G but she flat out refuses. I am NOT buying her or giving her my 20G.* I am not gonna argue with people over the 10 gallon tank. *Last year there were 5 goldfish :shock: she is now down to 2

What I what I want to know is about cycling. She only changes the water "when it gets dirty" which is like once every 2 months. I have a siphon so I can at least give the poor things clean water every week. The thing is...This tank has a filter that has been running for 3 years BUT she has been doing 100% water changes. I don't do filters, even when I had my 20G and 10G's (I did alot of water changes a week), so what I want to know is, with the monthly 100% changes, is the tank cycled? And if it is, does gravel siponing suck up all the bacteria on the gravel? There are like 2 small plastic plants and that's about it for decor. The bacteria live on decor and in the filter, right? 

I tested their water yesterday and the ammonia was between .25-.50 
Nitrites, I dont remember the number but it was on the middle of the chart and by the time i got to nitrates, she was throwing things at me screaming get out of my room.


I dont know what kind of goldies they are. They arent feeder fish, the dont have tumors growing out of their head, nor do they have bubble or telescope eyes. They are rather round and shiny with long flowing 3 pronged tails - like a veil. They are orange and white.

EDIT:

this is them like a year ago. Now their tails are like 3 inches long








[/quote]

this is like a week ago - same fish


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

If she's been cleaning out the filter and gravel every time I doubt it's cycled.. Sounds like it probably gets cycled and then she cleans it.. :s If she never clean the filter there might be some BB growing in there but not enough..
Oh and also, according to what I learned in bio class siphoning gravel should have no effect on BB (considering that even after you do your dishes there's still tons of bacteria on them O__O)
Also must say, it looks like as the goldfish grew the cat shrunk haha. xD


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Whether it is cycled or not will depend on what she did with the filter media when she cleaned it. Did she throw it out/scrub it? 

Those poor little fish.  Their lack of colour says to me "very stressed". They look like fantails to me (my favourites). 

It's such a shame she won't listen to you! Those poor dears need 30 gallons for the two of them.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

As far as I know, she has never done anything with the filter. I dont even know if she knows she is supposed to change the cartridge. I know for the last water change all she did was change out 50% of the water.

I have tried to get her to upgrade to at least the 20 gallon tall but she flat out refuses. It would fit on her desk but I am not so sure the desk would stand up to the weight. Its one of those cheap computer desks. Petco opened up here last week and they had the $1/gallon sale and she still refused :evil: I even told her I would buy it for her in exchange for her 10 gallon..nope. she wasnt interested.

The pic on the bottom was taken with a cell phone and the color is a bit washed out. The goldies are actually not as pale as they look but they probably arent too happy
I have a filter for a 20G would that help in any way? I know goldies are dirty fishies, part of the reason I never liked them. That and if I am getting a 30+ gallon tank, I want more then 2 fish in it.

Also, do they like decor and places to hide like bettas? or would that take up too much swimming space.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Maybe get some live plants that take a lot of ammonia? I know a hornwort grows fast and absorbs a lot.


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## makoisland (Mar 2, 2012)

XD Poor fishies, but those picture are rather funny, the cats watching and all.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

The higher rated the filter on the tank is, the better it will be. It's not going to make a difference the way an ideal environment would, but it will improve their quality of life in the only way that is within your capabilities, given her attititude. 
As Olympia says, live plants would also be good. Lacefern, anacharis, duckweed and hornwort are all great ammonia absorbers (and part-time fish food). 

I have two friends from work who both keep their goldfish in similar conditions. One girl has two black moores in a 15-ish gallon with no filter, and the other has a fantail and a comet (used to be two comets) in a 5-ish gallon. I bought the 5 gallon a filter, some Prime and some Stability, and will hopefully be taking the comet away to put in our pond when it is set up, and gave both girls a bunch of plants. I think it's all you can do in situations like these.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I actually have some good news. That tank might be cycled. Good bacteria also live in the substrate and if she hasn't been cleaning it out when she does her changes, some might be living in there. 

Olympia is right. Live plants would make a huge difference. Hornwort is probably going to be your best bet as it can survive almost anywhere. I have some in a few inches of water next to a window right now. Moss balls are another good addition and they can be munched on by the goldfish. 

While it's great that you want to upgrade her to a larger tank, the damage with these guys has already been done. Stunted fish usually don't grow much more once put in a larger tank. I think your best bet is to try to convince her to do more regular water changes.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I took a better pic of them... :-D No cats this time.

I put some prime in the day I did the water tests. 

Can these plants live with gravel and do i need to add stuff to the water for the plants? I'll see what I can do about that. 

I had a black moore when I was in college. he was in a 1 gallon with a huge snail


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Hornwort can be floated or buried I believe. And it grows super fast without needing special nutrients usually. 
You could make a larger portion of their diet vegetarian, I remember koimaiden saying it makes them produce less ammonia.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

If the tank is having a problem with algae or has a kinda old light, growing them floating will produce the best results. Under good lighting my hornwort grows around a foot a week. 

Greens are a great way to cut down on ammonia, but they will still need protein from the flakes/pellets. Ammonia is a direct result from the breakdown of proteins by the body (even our bodies produce ammonia). Ideally their meals should consist of 1 part protein to 4 parts greens/veggies. This will help reduce ammonia waste as as they wouldn't be digesting as many proteins but mostly plant matter. Shelled peas, spinach, chopped zucchini, and kale are great vegetables for them. It's also great for their digestion and will help them not munch on your plants as much.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I'll see if I can pic up some green for them tomorrow.

Well, at least she LOOKED at the 20G's but then she saw the price online and was like I am not paying $80 for a tank...:evil:

We are going shopping tomorrow, I shall drag her to petco.


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## Sena Hansler (Aug 24, 2011)

Even Kijiji sometimes has cheap tanks. Or tanks you could make waterproof (minor cracks can be fixed with proper silicon), which would also be cheaper. However, I've found my area is pretty cheap and giving :lol: not sure about yours! 

Good luck getting a bigger tank. I've seen comets get up to 2-3 feet in optimum conditions. Fancies get HUGE too.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Tell her you have to pay $80 for a 5 gallon in Australia. That might put it in perspective a little.  
I hope she takes your advice!


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

:shock: Yeah, they were pretty $$$ In Alaska too. Everything is way more then it is in the rest of the USA and it would seriously make me mad when people were like.."go to walmart and get blah blah blah for $5"..YEAH RIGHT!

Anyways she agreed to it IF i get it for her Birthday gift, which is later this month. Now the problem is my mother, who has the mentality that ITS JUST A FISH, KEEP IT IN A GOLDFISH BOWL :evil:


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## GuppyBetta (Mar 10, 2012)

A tiny bit on the off-topic side, but you know those bowls literally called "Goldfish Bowl" as their brand name? THOSE THINGS ARE 3 INCHES TALL AT THE MOST! And they say, "perfect for one or two goldfish!" :evil:

BTW, I'm glad you got your sister to finally get a bigger tank for those goldfish.  I hope your mom still lets you get the tank, given her apparent mentality.


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> $1/gallon sale


Totally off topic here, but WHAT!? This is the best deal ever. I wonder if this is going on in MA. My goldfish desperately need a bigger tank.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Wolfie305 said:


> Totally off topic here, but WHAT!? This is the best deal ever. I wonder if this is going on in MA. My goldfish desperately need a bigger tank.


Yep! Petcos all around usually have a sale like that every few months. Just keep an eye on your local Petco. It's a great chance to get a larger tank! Just be sure you can get a stand. 1 gallon of water weights about 8 lbs. ^-^


Also tikibirds, I LOVE your avatar! Try showing them this video. It's a 14 inch oranda.


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## Wolfie305 (Jan 31, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> Yep! Petcos all around usually have a sale like that every few months. Just keep an eye on your local Petco. It's a great chance to get a larger tank! Just be sure you can get a stand. 1 gallon of water weights about 8 lbs. ^-^


This is so great!! My neighbor is the district manager of PetCo, I'll ask him when the next sale is!


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## tiffanini (Feb 18, 2012)

BTW, those goldfish are most likely orandas because orandas have dorsal fins and a wen. So don't worry about any tumors.

Also, since orandas are fancy goldfish (not single-tailed), they need at least the minimum 10 gallons per goldfish and at least 10x filter turnover per gallon. In your sister's case, 2x10x10=200 gph.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Powerful filters are pricey and I doubt Tiki's sis will want to spend that much money on her "precious" goldies.


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## tiffanini (Feb 18, 2012)

Powerful filters aren't that pricey, if you ask me. An AquaClear 50 that is 200 gph can be only $35 with free shipping from amazon.com. If Tiki's sis doesn't want to pay, Tiki could say that is she didn't get a better filter, her fish would die sooner. And that wouldn't sound very nice, would it? Goldfish especially need filters because they are ammonia producing machines and need the filtration to keep up with their waste.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

A good filter alone isn't going to save those goldfish. They need regular, LARGE water changes. A powerful filter isn't going to do much more other than move more water around. When you have high waste production in a small space the best thing is increase water changes.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Yes, we've pretty much done everything we can for them.. More greens in their tank/tummy, more water changes, hopefully a 20 gal upgrade.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

UPDATE
I have been doing water changes every 2-3 days. They seem more active. Before they just laid on the gravel. The amount of crap that came up the 1st time i gravel siponed was disgusting. Everytime I do the water changes I get into a fight with my mother about it. She says they are fine and have lived that way for 3 years. yeah well, what about the other 3 she had in there that died?? UGH..there was a reason I lived 5000 miles away from her.

Havent gotten any live plants yet...all the ones I have seen are not actually aquatic. 

can someone tell me about their behavior? I dont know about any other fish but bettas and want to know if their behavior is normal



> Tiki could say that is she didn't get a better filter, her fish would die sooner. And that wouldn't sound very nice, would it?


 I already tried that and got the "they lived in there for 3 years and are fine" response


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Fine would mean they'd be fully grown, properly sized by now, not stunted.  I'm guessing you've tried explaining the difference between alive and thriving? I feel your pain. I had the "he's fine" response for so long about my sister's goldfish...


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> I'm guessing you've tried explaining the difference between alive and thriving?


yup and she said something to the effect that they are just stupid fish :evil:
My sister is more receptive to a larger tank and more water changes (provided that I do it) but my mother is 100% against it. John droped off mine last week but god forbid I set it up...I would think 1 tank and 1 heater is better then 5 or 6 smaller tanks and 5 or 6 heaters all plugged in but she does not see it this way.
Of course this is the same woman that has 2 parakeets? in a cage the size of a 10 gallon tank and these birds have NEVER been been out of this tiny cage since she got them. All they do is squak at each other. I know nothing about birds but shouldnt they be let out at some point?

It truly amazes me how incrediby ignorant my mother is.


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## SweetNightmare (Mar 15, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> yup and she said something to the effect that they are just stupid fish :evil:
> My sister is more receptive to a larger tank and more water changes (provided that I do it) but my mother is 100% against it. John droped off mine last week but god forbid I set it up...I would think 1 tank and 1 heater is better then 5 or 6 smaller tanks and 5 or 6 heaters all plugged in but she does not see it this way.
> Of course this is the same woman that has 2 parakeets? in a cage the size of a 10 gallon tank and these birds have NEVER been been out of this tiny cage since she got them. All they do is squak at each other. I know nothing about birds but shouldnt they be let out at some point?
> 
> It truly amazes me how incrediby ignorant my mother is.


Not necessarily. Parakeets are notoriously untamable, and letting them out assures never getting them back in, unless you have a bird net. However, with untame birds like most parakeets, it's agreed that they should have some form of flight cage to stretch their wings, something a few feet wide on all sides. If it was something more easily tamed, like cockatiels, yes, they would enjoy and need 'out time' with their humans.

Your family sounds...infuriating.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Bomba hit the nail on the head. Those poor goldies have been severely stunted by poor water quality. As long as they aren't flipping upside down when you feed them, have fins and gills in good shape (no inflammation or red streaks), and not gasping for air, then all things considered, they're doing pretty good. Improving water quality may cause them to grow a bit, but probably not much. 

I can't even imagine how filthy that tank was. Mine is filthy after a week with just 2 goldfish in a 55 gal. 

I'm sorry your family is so incorrigible. The "it's just a fish" mentality is something I've been fighting for years, too. At least my family seems to get it, but some of my friends sure don't.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

I particularly hate the "it's just a fish" mentality. I mean, 100 years ago, it was "just" a woman; 200 years ago it was "just" a black person. 

If it can suffer, it's not "just" anything.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> Your family sounds...infuriating.


That is an Understatement! 
As soon as I can I am moving away from here again. Last time I moved to Alaska. maybe this time I should move further away - like to Hawaii

Yesterday my mother was threatining to kill my fish. I told her I would feed her angry birds to the cat.

I have tried so many times to explain to my mother that water needs to be changed EVERY WEEK and she is just too lazy to get it. How hard is it to understand that poop and ammonia will build up and therefore the water needs to be changed??


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh, my parents are the same.. Because even after a week the water still LOOKS clean, so it must be fine.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

It's so infuriating :evil: 

Do goldfish need airstones? Their mouths are always going a mile a minute and I dont know if its normal or they are lacking oxygen or what.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Tikibirds said:


> That is an Understatement!
> As soon as I can I am moving away from here again. Last time I moved to Alaska. maybe this time I should move further away - like to Hawaii
> 
> Yesterday my mother was threatining to kill my fish. I told her I would feed her angry birds to the cat.
> ...


Just be careful about Hawaii. They have different laws about the import and keeping of tropical fish and a lot of animals in general than the rest of the US. Maybe you should try Canada or Europe? Put some international boundary lines between you and her. 

I don't even want to know what I would do if my sister (who is kinda like your mother) tried to kill my fish. Probably destroy her entire wardrobe (it's the only thing she seems to like/take pride in). 



Tikibirds said:


> It's so infuriating :evil:
> 
> Do goldfish need airstones? Their mouths are always going a mile a minute and I dont know if its normal or they are lacking oxygen or what.


If you see any gasping at the surface that isn't associated with begging for food, then you should consider an air stone. Most of the time it is just them breathing and searching for food.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I know Hawaii has a 6 month quarentine for dogs so I doubt I would ever move there, plus the whole reason I left alaska is because its so damn expensive. I was paying over 1,000 a month for 280 sq feet of space and this housed me, my chinchilla and her big cage, my dog and 23 bettas in various sized tanks. I think Hawaii is more expensive then alaska.

The goldies are not at the surface gasping - they do it everywhere else though. Usually midlevel or at the bottom.



> I don't even want to know what I would do if my sister (who is kinda like your mother) tried to kill my fish. Probably destroy her entire wardrobe (it's the only thing she seems to like/take pride in).


About 12 years ago she did flush my goldfish. She said it was diseased because his eyes had buldges. He was a black moore :evil: I do NOT trust her with any living critter of mine. SHe is so freakin clueless and ignorant about their care, it's unreal.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Guess I will never be living in either Hawaii or Alaska. Lower 48 for me! 

She flushed a black moor? Gee. She does sound like someone I would let within yards of my animals. Do you just keep all of your animals in your room? 

The labored breathing could be due to ammonia burns on the gills that happened a long time ago. How warm is the water? Goldfish do best in high oxygen waters. How far are they opening their mouths? Mine are always opening them a little bit (well more than bettas anyway). Also because they are always chewing on something.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Goldfish chew cud?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Yup - I have all but 2 bettas in my room and the chinchilla is in the hallway
I would think the water is about 70, maybe 68. 

The goldfish open their mouths up quite wide


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Olympia said:


> Goldfish chew cud?


Haha. Not exactly; they don't have a ruminant's digestive system. They are just always chewing on algae or my plants or the snails or trying to chew on the rocks. Goldfish try to eat everything all the time. :lol:



Tikibirds said:


> Yup - I have all but 2 bettas in my room and the chinchilla is in the hallway
> I would think the water is about 70, maybe 68.
> 
> The goldfish open their mouths up quite wide


Your room must be crowded (I say as I look around at the 60+ gallons of water I have in my room lol). 

The goldfish could have having some trouble getting oxygen despite the low temp (probably due to gill damage). One way to increase oxygenation of the water is to lower the water level a bit and let the filter outflow splash a bit when it hits the water. I would try that before investing your money in something your sister should be doing.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh my. I guess that's why people say not to put in gravel that can fit in their mouth? Btw doesn't your tank have gravel, Tiki?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Its her birthday today and she would like a 20 gallon setup but my mother is the problem. I kept telling grace that she would never notice the difference between a 20G tall and a 10G. It took her 2 months to notice the 3 fish I arrived with has turned into 9. Petco has a complete one for $58 with a pals card. 

I had a airstone and small pump that came with a 1 gallon and added it in, see if it makes a difference. 

The smaller one isn't doing so well. It just lays on the bottom with its mouth and gills moving. Sometimes it swims but then it floats back down. Too long in improper conditions? I did a small WC and gravel sipon and tested the old water. Ammonia 1.0, 0 nitrite. Shouldn't this tank be cycled by now or at least onto the nitrite part? Does prime kill it?


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, it has gravel. The larger fish could probably fit it in its mouth. Is sand better or larger rocks?


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Ammonia 1.0 is extremely toxic and is killing the fish.
The need for LARGE water changes every day not small ones, is a MUST. There is a possibility that the tank may never cycle simply because the bioload is too large with too little room for good bacteria to establish.
Ammonia once present acts quickly on the fishes gill and while it may not show immediate signs of distress, the damage caused is already reducing its lifespan.

If you can get a larger tank, then it would help immensely. The substrate does not really matter, it is personal choice, sand given the large amount of waste though, would likely look horrible and would need vacuuming almost daily.

If you can get a larger filter, then it will make a difference, you can always add a piece of filter floss to the output to slow the flow down.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> If you can get a larger tank, then it would help immensely.


I have been trying for 3 years to get her to upgrade...


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## Tazman (Jan 15, 2012)

Tikibirds said:


> I have been trying for 3 years to get her to upgrade...


When I upgraded my 55g tank to a 75g tank, I did it when my parents where out the house many years ago.

Took about an hour to change it over, I hid the tank at my neighbours garage until mine went out. Then changeover time, it would as you mentioned look no different really other than slightly taller.

The extra room though would help a lot.

Just a thought...


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

Im almost positive she would never notice the difference but what worries the most is how much the tank will weight. Im not sure one of those crappy metal/plastic computer desks can handle the weight and thats what the 10 gallon is on now.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I would be worried about the weight, too. A 20 gal tank holds close to 200 lbs in water. That would not be a fun sight all over the floor. Is there another sturdy piece of furniture you could replace it with? A good wooden desk? I, too, support switching the tanks when your mother isn't around. 

Actually if you want to rig the bubble stone into a bubble filter that will oxygenate the water as well as provide more surface area for BB to grow. 

As for the gravel, it is fine. Some people have reported goldfish choking to death on small gravel, but this is only large goldfish. Yours will be fine. Just one final note about the gravel, make sure it is less than 2 inches deep. Any deeper and without regular gravel vacs you could get anaerobic pockets. If you had a more powerful filter you could also go bare-bottom to make sucking up waste easier.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

A bubble filter? Is that the same as a sponge filter? I've been looking for them but I never see them in stores. Only online.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Yep. It's the same thing. I've never seen them in stores around here, either. But I have seen youtube videos that describe how to build one from simple stuff that you can find in most pet stores. I can post it, if you like.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I did another 50% water change and lowered the water so the filter make more bubbles but the smaller fish really is not doing well  I used stress coat instead of prime this time. I don't think there is much else i can do for it. From the videos on youtube i watched of other goldfish, the mouth movement seems normal for the larger one. But the smaller one is just laying lethargically on the floor with both rapid gill and mouth movement.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm sorry, but things aren't sounding good for the smaller one. Years of poor water quality are probably catching up to her. Also, I can't remember if you told us but what is the pH of the tank? Acidic pH and soft water also cause stress on goldfish, and if the pH is low this could be compounding with your poor water quality issues.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I have no idea what the PH is. I thin its hard water if that helps any?

I went in there just now and it was dead. Naturally she threw a hissie fit saying "THEY WERE FINE AND YOU KILLED HIM". Ummm, NO. I TOLD you what is happening and they needed a bigger tank and what happens when you never change the water. YOU said they have been in there for years just fine.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Hard water is great. Goldfish do better in hard water, and the pH is more stable. In an uncleaned tank is soft water pH has a tendency to crash and crash hard. 

I'm terribly sorry you lost the little one. There really isn't much that can be done if your family isn't willing to upgrade to a larger tank. I was wondering if the death of a fish would bring them around, but I'm sad to see that it hasn't.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> I was wondering if the death of a fish would bring them around, but I'm sad to see that it hasn't.


Nope, They were both fine till I changed the water. Nevermind the ammonia level was too high :evil: I didn't really think it would make a difference to either of their mentalities since she originally had FIVE goldfish in there and 3 of them died for aparently no reason. 

You'll never guess what she plans on buying tomorrow :shock:

Neither of them should ever have animals. Well, my sister just shouldn't have fish. She takes perfect care of her cats. My mother on the other hand should never have access to ANY animal. She will not take proper care of them and is too high matience to have them. If she even sees a dog hair on the floor she goes ballistic. One dog is blind and diabetic, she refused to take care of it for almost a year. She finally got her on insulin shots but the dog drinks so much she always has to pee and my mother is unwilling to get up and let her out, so sometimes the dog goes on the floor and then my mother goes even more ballistic. THIS was a big part of the reason why I stayed far, far away from her for 12 years.


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## Bombalurina (Oct 10, 2011)

Perhaps it was the shock of good water quality that just tipped a goldfish already suffering over the edge? I've heard of this happen before with bettas - someone rescues a betta that lived 5 years in a bowl of crud, and dies because a clean from someone who cares is too much for it to handle. 

Is there any way you can talk her out of buying another goldfish?


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Bomba is right. Rapidly changing water parameters (even if it is for the better) will kill a fish. 

Oh my god... I don't blame you for trying to put a continent between you and your mother. You are one strong soul for dealing with her. 

You could try to convince your sister by telling her a new goldfish will likely bring in diseases that will kill both of goldfish. Or just steal the tank from her room. The most malicious thing to do would be wait until the other goldfish dies and then put a crack in the tank. I doubt she would be willing to buy another tank to have more fish.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

I like koimaiden's idea for if the other one died lol.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

> Is there any way you can talk her out of buying another goldfish?


 No but I was so close to getting her to get a 15 gallon. She was gonna get a tetra something or other 15 gallon kit and I was gonna take her 10 gallon since mine got dumped when I left Alaska and I got 2 poor bettas waiting for a proper home (ie, not a storage container). The sign said it was on sale for $50 and I told her I would pay for 1/2 of it and a live plant or two. we went to pay and it rang up $89 :shock:. I ended up getting an Aquenon deluxe kit for $30 for my guys instead. 

We might go back and get it tomorrow. Looking at it, it does not look any bigger then the 10 gallon and there is no way my mother will be able to tell the difference. 

Is there anything that can go with the goldie in a 15? Im trying to prevent her from comming home with a Koi or something. 



> Oh my god... I don't blame you for trying to put a continent between you and your mother. You are one strong soul for dealing with her.


 The woman drives me nuts. Im not sure what her problem is, but it's getting worse, whatever it is. I spent most of my childhood with my grandparents (my dad went over every day to work on cars and such and they only lived like 10 miles away anyways) so I don't know is she was always so bitter and lazy or if she got that way after they divorced in '92 or if its just old age -she turned 60 this year.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I think a 15 gal and a 10 gal have basically the same footprint and that the 15 gal is just taller. Your mother will hardly know the difference. 

As for a tankmate... nothing that is really suitable. Plants? A marimo ball? Basically anything that isn't a plant is going to contribute to the ammonia load which is bad in such a small space. Have you ever seen those glass fish that float using a string attached to a bubble? Those would be best, lol. In all seriousness, a 15 gal is to small for a goldfish let alone something else. I think your best bet is to try to keep her at one goldfish. Also remind her that bringing in new fish to an established tank has the rather large chance to bring in disease.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I had one of those glass fish :-D


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

and she got another gold fish. A bronze fan tail. its so tiny compared to the other one but not a bigger tank.


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## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh dear. Just uhh tell her to watch for signs of disease. Most pet store goldfish come riddled with all kinds of nasties including gill flukes, ich, internal parasites, and finrot. That coupled with the stress of the poor living environment might be the death of both fish. You're fighting an uphill battle, and I wish you the best.


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh no! That cannot have been a good idea.


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I checked it out and I don't see any visible issues. She's had it for about a week now.

she is on her own with it


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

At least then it won't be your fault if these two die.. Can't believe she blamed you for the other one dieing. x.x


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

She was thinking about getting rid of the desk and getting a corner tank and stand. I think she wants the 36 gallon one? it was a weird number of gallons, don't remember how many exactly but it was bigger then 20. 

The new fishie looks to be doing rather well. It has really colored up over the past 3 weeks and now its even sporting a mustache and it constantly foll


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

She was thinking about getting rid of the desk and getting a corner tank and stand. I think she wants the 36 gallon one? it was a weird number of gallons, don't remember how many exactly but it was bigger then 20. She wants it but I don;t think she is actually going to PAY for it...

The new fishie looks to be doing rather well. It has really colored up over the past 3 weeks and now its even sporting a mustache and it constantly follows the big guy around all the time. 

Conditions are not ideal, but for the little guy - it's better then a petco tank...and things are a little better. I put some live floating plants in there and do WC's every few days. And that is my Bubbler...


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Maybe if you contribute a bit to the new tank it'll help?
36 gallons is actually a good size for two fantails- gasp. Just hope that that doesn't make her think she can get more.
Must say, that mustache is adorable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tikibirds (May 26, 2011)

I told her I would pay for 1/2 the tank....


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## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Well that's already 1/2 more than you should be paying, so it's up to her now. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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