# What am I getting into?



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Recently wife wants a sorority tank of her own. It was supposed to be a simple project - substrates and a few plants. However, I was (rather, I felt) challenged by aquascaping - the whole enchilada including a sandfall.

Although this past 3 months I've been reading up on plants and squascaping, I'm still not confident because there are many conflicting views on "easy beginner's" plants - not to mention conflicting views shops told me. Plus my fear of algae. 

I bought a 60x30x30 cm (about 13g)
I have both undergravel and regular filters 
both air and water pumps.
Black sand subsrate (don't know English name, but is widely used in shops)
I have rocks (lava, I think), wood, and will make styrofoam ornament.
*** I plan to buy a light

1. Can I use undergravel filter.
2. Are ferts, CO2, etc. Really needed (I'm reluctant)
3. How do I avoid algae - considering the tank will be outdoors, though under a shade (no direct sunlight).
4. What material is best; wood, rocks, or styrofoam coated with cement.
5. What do you recomend as an easy low light carpet plant. 
6. Can I use a combination of soil covered with black sand (as replacement for aquatic ferts) . . . Don't plan to add livestock until much later.

I may be ok breeding animals. But to be honest, I know nothing about plants other than what I've read. And I tend to kill regular potted plants - whether flower or fruit. . . . Though I followed recommended instructions, I still manage to eventually kill them.

Any insight is highly appreciated.

*** Thus far I can only keep anacharis alive - adapted to very little light (covered tanks/tubs) Other plants can't adapt to my setup.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

1. I personally don't like UGF's, but you can.

2. Not really, depending on the types of plants.

3. I have a Finnex Stingray and haven't had any problems of algae even with 10+ hours of light a day. Most people recommend 6-8 hours only, though. It's all up to you. Since I don't dose ferts or CO2, except for the occasional Flourish, I do more light.\

4. I've used both wood and rocks, but I've never used styrofoam. Remember: Wood = tannins. If tannins kill your OCD, like it does mine, don't use wood. Since your'e a breeder, I don't think you would be bugged by that. Use whatever you want.

5. That's a hard one. Currently the only thing that I've been able to keep alive with little to no ferts is Dwarf Hairgrass. It is starting to carpet, but slowly. My substrate is also Eco-Complete.

6. I've heard of dirt-based tanks, but I've never tired to use one. I feel like I'd mess up and somehow kill the fish.

Some of the easiest plants are Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss, Anarchis, etc. I've only been able to kill Java Moss, mostly because I trimmed it too short and the trimmings got into the filter, and it was a huge mess, so I just tossed it. Depending on the light you can get, and the power it has, you can do more plants like Hornwort, Water Sprite/Wisteria, Cacomba, and various swords. Swords prefer root tabs, which aren't hard to dose. Just one in between a couple of plants. I've also only had good (bad?) times with Duckweed (both normal and Giant) as floaters (they too over the tank....), but I've heard Frogbit is a good one. Salvianna melts if condensation from the lid hits it, and my lid always has condensation. My Salvianna, as you probably guessed, is dead.


----------



## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

I agree with all above, I just have some to add about dirt tanks. 

Make sure you use organic soil with no additives and rinse it thoroughly. Let it sit in water a few days so all the loose bits will float to the top, then use the heavy soil at the bottom of the bucket. Make sure you press it down extremely well in the tank. It wouldn't hurt to add some iron tabs to the soil, which you can get on eBay. Put your hardscape down, then cover with a solid layer of sand. You MUST plant extremely heavy from the start. I don't mean a few plants, I mean A LOT (which is mandatory for a sorority anyway). Make sure you have fast growing stem plants. Swords will fare well but will need root tabs when the soil is exhausted. Also be aware that you can't really change the placement of your plants once they take root. It will pull up tons of dirt and cause a mess, so be carefully while planting and even more so when moving plants. 

Carbon can help remove tannins, as can Seachem Purigen. I prefer Purigen since it can be recharged.


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

indjo said:


> 1. Can I use undergravel filter. *Not with sand or dirt. I found with gravel they do a great job.*
> 2. Are ferts, CO2, etc. Really needed (I'm reluctant) *No CO2 but if you have rooted plants you do need root and Iron tabs.*
> 3. How do I avoid algae - considering the tank will be outdoors, though under a shade (no direct sunlight). *Get some Nerite snails and Oto to help control algae. If you see it immediately remove it.*
> 4. What material is best; wood, rocks, or styrofoam coated with cement. *I like driftwood and rocks. Anything that is or looks natural.*
> ...


You can anchor clumps of Anacharis all over the tank; it makes a very pretty background. Any of the stem plants are good in a sorority: Water Wisteria, Hornwort, Cabomba, Pennywort, Bacopa, Rotala, Ludwigia. You don't even need to plant; just get some plant anchors and they will eventually root themselves.

Anubias, Cryptocoryne, Swords are all good beginner plants.

Have fun!


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you all for the advices.

My current bettas are under a plastic canopy (car port/garage). Further, most are covered to avoid rain leaks. Under those conditions my tanks and tubs still get over run by algae. This new tank will be shaded but still get extreme lighting. I can't imagine what'll happen.

I read there's an anti algae chemical. Is this safe for plants and fish? I'd rather avoid any chemicals, but I will use them if needed.

Why do I need to plant lots of plants? I do intend to densely plant the tank but slowly - arranging one type at a time. Because I realize that once its set up, I can't take it apart - specially root plants. To my knowledge, what I have in mind is a "yearly" set up.

I bought anubias nana to see if I can keep it alive. If this can grow in my betta set up, it will definitely grow in my new tank.

The problem with plants is names. Take moss for example. What looks like christmas moss is called peakock. I couldnt find java but got this fuzzy type instead. And shops confuse me with different methods of keeping/growing. One common view is that they all say CO2, ferts, etc are needed.

I plan to visit more aquascaping shops and learn as much as I can. . . . Plus compare prices. Lol. . . . .never thought some plants could cost hundreds of dollars.

I have a few wood (diferent types), plus we bought a new one which is being soaked atm. I too prefer natural when posible. But I fear breaking the tank floor if I use to much/heavy woods and rocks.

Reading OFL's NPT, what I want has been proven possible - Relying on fish to fertilize the plants. But, is it advised for a total noob like me.


----------



## MysticSky22301 (Apr 16, 2016)

Ramshorn snails are good at eating algae but most people don't want them. I like seeing how big I get them to grow ^^

Java fern is so easy I've got it spreading in my Betta totes without any substrate or anything crypts plants are fairly low maintenance too, and camboba. Water sprite grows like crazy and could help keep algae growth to a minimum by absorbing the extra nutrients. Dwarf water lettuce is supposed to be easy but I've killed 2 different orders, red root floaters Are rather cool ^^


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

You wants lots of plants to break up lines of sight.

If you can find it, Ceratophyllum submersum (Soft Hornwort) is easier to grow...at least for me...than regular Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum).

Anacharis...which you already can grow.

Anubias...any type. The only thing that seems to hurt Anubias is too much light.

Water Wisteria.

Frog Bit...grows better for me than Dwarf Water Lettuce.

Bucephalandra

Cryptocoryne: Parva makes a nice foreground plant.

I have a friend who is fairly new to aquariums and she has dirted tanks. I'll ask you to check out your thread.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

All the shops I visited didn't have java fern. I can keeo Cabomba and bacopa, but not in my regular betta setup. However I could never keep water sprite alive for long. I know how water lettuce works and can manipulate their sizes. Not sure if wife would want them.

Water sprite and water wisteria looks the same. I don't know which one I couldn't keep. But I'll try what looks like those. There were lots of them the other day, but I was asking about carpet plants and plants that don't grow to tall.

The buce- looks nice. But I didn't see any of those. I think I've kept some Cryptocoryne in the past. Grows very slow though.

I don't understand how fast growing plants could reduce algae growth. Everyone is saying they will use up the nutrients and reduce algae. IME, not in my tanks. I've had combinations of anacharis, cobomba, and bacopa densely growing in my tubs (it was so dense that the bottom part eventually disolves). But algae still grew on the upper part. Once hair algae grows, I destroy the whole lot.

I'm not sure if wife will agree to snails. Tbh, I'm also reluctant. . . . We'll see. I plan to use algae eaters. But in the past, these didn't do their job too well. Btw, how many of those algae eaters could/should I keep in a 13g planted tank?

Oh. . . I was wrong about the lighting. Since I cut down this tree, the tank will be getting about 2 hours of direct sunlight (8-10). Will this be a problem? I could cover the tank (block ditect sunlight).


----------



## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The problem with algae eaters is not all algae eaters eat all algae.

I like Nerite snails because they don't reproduce in freshwater. I also have Oto; a minimum shoal of six would work in a 10 gallon. And Amano Shrimp. Or, if you get algae you can dose Seachem Excel...it will kill any algae.


----------



## badwolfgirl (Aug 12, 2016)

You can totally do dirt under sand or under eco-complete if that's what you were talking about, though you don't really have to spend money on eco complete if you have dirt, it's one of the cheapest ways to get a nutrient rich substrate. In the states, I recommend Miracle Gro Organic Potting Mix, so if you look that up on Amazon, you can see the kind of soil you're looking for. No fertilizer added, no perlite (the little white things in some potting mixes, they float when you add them to a tank).

You can't do an under gravel filter with dirt, however, it will just get clogged. 

Backstory: I started with dirted tanks because I love the idea of a complete eco-system in miniature. So yes, you can start with them and be successful, I now have six and have helped 2 friends start successful dirted tanks as well. 

But a good dirted tank is an eco-system, so you need snails. I actually like ramshorns. I have nerites as well, but nerites don't have a neutral shell like ramshorns do. Ramshorns (and plain old pond snails too) can climb your plants and eat algae off of them. Nerites stay mostly on the glass and wood. Also, if you are going to go with dirt under sand, you really need malaysian trumpet snails as well. They live in the substrate and help keep the sand from compacting too much (rinsing it VERY thoroughly also helps with this I've discovered as you wash away all the super fine bits that not only cloud the tank, but make it easier for the sand to compact). 

As far as why to plant heavily: I have a tank set up in a window with no algae because of dense planting. The plants outcompete the algae because they are better at photosynthesis, but if you don't start with enough and algae gets a foothold, it can be time-consuming to get rid of. Although, my favorite solution is just to add more plants. I got a case of staghorn and black beard algae in another tank and I spot treated with hydrogen peroxide (it's a 3% concentration in the States and I dosed no more than 1 ml per gallon a day, from a syringe directly onto spots of algae). I added ramshorns and Amano shrimp to that tank because both will eat the dying hair algae types. And I added more plants, and surface plants. Within a month, I was down to no visible algae (I'm sure there's a little somewhere!) and I never have to clean the glass. If you don't overfeed, the ramshorn population will stay under control. 

Diana Walstad who is one of the leading voices on dirted tanks recommends a tank that is at least 70% planted when viewed from above to start with. Floating water sprite, frog bit, duckweed, or the like helps because plants in contact with the air are much more efficient at using up nutrients in the tank because they can exchange carbon dioxide directly from the air instead of the water where the concentration is likely to be lower. 

Lastly, if you have lights on the tank, set them up with a timer and give them an off time in the middle of the day of at least 4 hours. You can try something like 5 hours on 4 hours off 5 hours on. Or on most of my tanks its 4 on 5 off, 4 on because all of them get some degree of at least reflected sunlight (lots of windows!). Plants need a 4 hour window of lights on to photosynthesize, but turning them off disrupts the algae's ability to photosynthesize. 

Hope that helps! Good luck!!


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks a million. You've all given me more confidence. 

About the soil; most advise about 2". If I were to use half an inch above filter cotton (don't know what they're called)/media, would that also clog the system? . . . . Sorry for being persistent, but I really want to use UGF and am trying to figure out ways to overcome the clogging - if possible.

What if the soil were bagged in some sort of small mesh bags (bagged organic ferts are often locally used to feed newly hatched fry in comercial fisheries). As long as the bags aren't dusturbed, organic ferts or in this case dirt/soil shouldn't leak out. Will that work? Or is it best to just scrape the soil idea.

Side note; I found a few local online aquascaping blog/site that sells moss, plants mentioned above, and snails.
. . . . . . . 

By 70% planted, do you mean tall plants or are carpet plants and moss types included. I plan to do a combination of fore - mid - and back plants in a way that we can easily view what ever fish we decide to keep


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

My A. Nana and moss (not sure what kind) are surprisingly growing. The nana is placed in a 1g tank where it gets more natural light. I add 50% used water to give it (hopefully) nutrition. While the moss is in a 50g covered tank with a few anacharis and about 29 juvie bettas - still gets natural light, though little.

New question: how do I replant moss. Do I simply cut off the branches and stick them on to new media (probably wood). Or do I need to look for some sort of hump(?) (Not sure what they're called). And plant those. 

My research tells me to plant the branches. But I'd like to make sure.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Instead of making a new thread for every question/ idea, I'm going to use this thread as a kind of journal for this project. So this thread may go on for months. And due to internet limitations, I might post in pieces (often get cut off by the time I'm done typing). 

Thus far I am lead to conclude that plant keeping may some what differ for me, being in a tropical area. Take hairgrass which is said to be an easy plant, always melt - even though temps have been on the low end.

Since there are no right nor wrong way to keep bettas, perhaps this may also be valid for plants. That being said, I will attempt a combination of ugf and soil base. To avoid clogging, I will use 1" rows of soil and sand. Logically the rows of sand shouldn't pose any problems even though the rows of soil may clog. Hopefully my system will still be functional. . . Pictures will follow once I figure out how to reduce their sizes on this phone.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not too sure of the names of plants I managed to collect. I know I have anacharis, cabomba, bacopa, anubias nana, weaping moss, christmas moss, bucephalandra, and others. . . . I'll just post pictures. Some look similar - take cabomba; theres one that looks similar but very small leaves and another with long but thin leaves. Or bacopa, theres one that looks similar (I think they called it ludwigia- not sure)

Please advise which to group in one tank and or suggest other plants to collect as I don't understand which plants to group in one tank to create better ecosystem.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I can see how fish wastes nourish plants. Though some are melting - like the red types, but most are growing roots. . . . All except for (I think) ludwigia.

I know I can cultivate bacopa simply by plucking the leaves and let them float. Roots will grow and each leaf will become new plants. Can I do the same to ludwigia. 

What is left of the cuba isn't melting nor growing. I've used liquid ferts, fill with used fish water, gave it lots of sunlight. . . Nothing seems to work.

I still don't understand how to avoid algae growth though. Mostly planted, and even covering the tank doesn't stop them. Maybe it's more about temp than light. Average temp is rather high - 78-84F. Will be trying anti algae. It's local, without ingredients. 

Something I just realised ; algae seem to fourish where there are plants. This tank has been sitting there with little to no plants for about a year. No algae. But after one week with plants, along comes the algae.


----------



## badwolfgirl (Aug 12, 2016)

I'm glad you got started! Ludwigia you propagate like most stems by cutting a length of the stem and replanting. Ludwigia has never grown extensive substrate roots for me, it seems to take most of its nutrients from the water column, and will eventually grow arial roots. I'm sure you probably figured this out, but yes, you can replant the moss by trimming and then tying or gluing onto a new piece of rock or wood. 

Your temps are a little higher than average, double check the temp requirements of any plants you're having trouble with. Algae is a sign of life! So in some ways its a good thing. A freshly dirted tank has an excess of nutrients that can cause an algae spike as well, but it should all level out around the one month point as long as you're talking green dust algae and diatoms (brown algae). That's all just part of a new tank settling in. My favorite solution to algae is a combination of more plants, and letting your rams horns snails breed. They should establish a small colony with some equilibrium. As long as you aren't over feeding, they won't take over the tank. 

If you get hair algae, you can spot treat with hydrogen peroxide (sold in the US pharmacies at a 3% concentration), in a syringe or pipette directly on the hair algae, no more than 1 ml per gallon of your tank per day.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

This bucket is filled with water lettuces which are said to absorb nutrients better. However algae still grows, developing on the top and slowly spread below to the roots
. . . . . . . 

The following picture was taken on a cloudy day. Imagine a sunny day. . . . This tank is under a blurry plastic roof. Then I cover the tank with the same roof material. During sunny days, I cover the tank with a black plastic sheet.








Notice how dark the water is - about two weeks after the first picture. (Please excuse the mess)








This is the same tank after the plants were moved into small buckets. It hasn't been dosed with anti algae.
. . . . . . 

**** The above was supposed to be posted a few days ago, but failed.

Update: 

I think the anti algae works. I didn't see algae dieing if I followed instructions so I moved the plants into small buckets and "bombed" it with anti algae (prescribed for 30ltr - used in 4-8 ltr). Water turned green - black like when you scrub algae off tank walls.

The problem (for me) with this solution is that I need to clean dead algae off the plants and tank walls. . . . How on earth can I clean dead hair algae off moss. How do I know it's dead.

The tank was scrubbed, dosed according to instruction, plants were placed back into the tank (pictures will follow).


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Badwolfgirl:
I haven't started yet. I'm still "studying" the plants, what they need to survive, how fast they grow, how big/tall they get, etc. Some need little care, others . . . . Well I'm definitely doing something wrong. The leaves of plants that melted or were pulled off were left floating. Other than bacopa, other plants can grow out of leaves.















I think the first picture is a ludwigia. I don't know what the second one is called.








This is the tank "to be" - a 14g acrilic. It was used as a "tester" as well, including hairgrass and cuba. It is under solid roofing but still gets tons of light. I thought I totally lost the hairgrass. Apparently, new hairgrass are growing. 















What is left of the cuba is neither melting nor growing and I moved them to two bowls. One with soil, the other just sand - no difference so far (2 weeks). Most of them are floating - they keep breaking loose.

I was hoping for a local anti algae solution. But it doesn't seem to work on hair algae. I will have to look for hydrogen peroxide . . . Not sure if our chemists have them.














Not sure if you can see the light difference on this sunny day picture. I covered the tank to reduce lighting (second picture). However I can't reduce temperature. We have air conditioners which are pretty expensive to run. And there are heaters to raise temps. But I have never heard of water conditioners to lower temps. I am reluctant to set up the tank in our room as I often drop bowls and bottles which will spill water all over the room.


----------



## JDAquatics (Jan 16, 2015)

Have you considered potting the plants? If you really want to use UGF, planting in pots would keep dirt contained, plants could be moved and rearranged without a huge mess. I know you are trying to avoid ferts and co2....but i think this may be part of your algae problems. Plants will outcompete algae, but only if they have everything they need to grow fast. Dirt will help with ferts...have you considered letting plants grow above water level? Most of these plants can grow above water as well, then they can take co2 out of the atmosphere. Plus they will shade the rest of the plants some. Swords, Ludwigia, water sprite, wisteria, bacopa....all could grow partially above water.


----------



## bambii (Feb 20, 2017)

yass! a post a newbie (specifically I) can shine!

6. I use dirt for substrate!, going on about a month now, no ferts or anything, some of my dying plants (a bit of accident) is now shedding old brown dead leaves and growing fresh ones. just make sure it doesn't have chemical fertilizer or pesticide, then i top it off with volcanic sand which is black, might be the black thing you mean?

And for lowering temperature there are aquarium fans


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Algae mainly grew after I added liquid ferts. Yes the plants grew faster too but algae worries me. I don't understand "more" plant to out grow algae because in a dark bucket fully covered with water lettuces, algae grew. My 1g fully planted is also slowly growing algae though it's sort of covered (pvc plastic with holes). 

I haven't considered potted because it will take up too much space but limited plants. Besides, plants will only have a small area to grow. 

For natural covers, I plan to use water lettuces and let stems grow to the surface. . . . Not sure if wife would agree. Actually, not sure if wife still wants the aquarium. Maybe I'm takibg too long. And the place where she wants it turned out to be rather small for what she had in mind. Nevertheless, I've gone this far. I might just use that 50g and make my own soil based planted - without filters (no nearby electric sockets)

At this point I'm more curious than anything - "if others can do it, why can't I". . . .


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

What am I doing wrong now??? My anacharis are melting. They don't usually melt unless they were exposed to excessive sunlight. . . . This tank was covered. Other plants, usually more sensitive than anacharis, look fine. . . . To think I was ready to set up the 14g















Back to the old drawing board for me.
I know anacharis will regrow, but considering plants must be planted all at once . . . Can't wait. Will be buying more instead - soon.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Almost made a huge mistake. Local fish shops say I need cotton filter on top of the ugf. Fortunately Kadington posted a thread about ugf - NO cotton above the ugf plate.

However I will still attempt rows of dirt and sand. I might use thin sponges to avoid dirt falling into the filter. Hope it'll work.

I noticed that although dirt/organic ferts were presoaked, the water still turned brownish in my bowl of leftover cuba. 3 water changes didn't clear it up. So, how long does it take for the water to clear up? Or do I need filters to clear the water.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I can't figure out algae. This "test" tank begins to turn green in 3-5 days. This tank is covered with 2 layers of wavy plastic and one flat sheet to reduce heat, plus an aditional dark cover to reduce light. My plants are dieing but algae seems to flourish. What am I doing wrong?















I'm going to empty this tank for a week and see if that can stop the algae.


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

If you have goldfish, green water is very good to bring up their best colorations. Goldfish breeders make green water intentionally.


The water must have high nitrates, phosphates, and/or ammonia. I think the algae is consuming them before the plants do... 
I know your pain. Best way to get rid of it to use a UV sterilizer. I've been there and done that.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Hmmm. . . . I must consider keeping goldies again. But now that I know the 30g/goldfish rule . . . . I don't have anything big enough for a decent sorority/community.

I haven't tried any testers recently. The last time I used them was 5-6 yrs ago. I usually test three times and got different results. So I stopped. Unless I get an expensive monster (arowana, chana barca, etc), probably won't be getting any testers.


----------



## bambii (Feb 20, 2017)

Plants and algae compete for nutrients, once algae starts covering the plants leaves, then the plants starts to lose. Tho i think generally algae prefers more lights than plants?

Wouldn't UV sterilizer also hurts the beneficial bacteria tho? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rainbo (Nov 23, 2015)

You could get some nerite snails and see if they help with the algae. 

There are some drawbacks to them though. If the ones you get are not all males, they will lay eggs and some people do not like the look of the little white eggs all over the place. I got lucky with my two in that they seem to be males and I've never seen any eggs. The good news is that the eggs will not hatch in salt water.

They do not eat all types of algae, so depending on what type of algae you have in your tank you might not see a big improvement. 

Some will only eat algae, and nothing else, so if you get them make sure you have at least some algae. You may get luck and get some that will eat blanched vegetables like spinach and zucchini, or algae wafers but don't count on it.


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

bambii said:


> Plants and algae compete for nutrients, once algae starts covering the plants leaves, then the plants starts to lose. Tho i think generally algae prefers more lights than plants?
> 
> Wouldn't UV sterilizer also hurts the beneficial bacteria tho?


Most of BB live in the filter media. Therefore, UV sterilizer doesn't hurt them in established tanks. It cleared green water in my tank within 48 hours.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't know what UV sterilizers are. Need to look into that. I noticed that there are more and more aquascaping shops around here. This indicates the growing hobby thus there should be one or two shops that sells them. 

I haven't seen a nerite snail in our shops. There's only this big yellow snail that has become a nuisance to local farmers - they multiply like crazy and could damage crops. Might not use snails.

There are few local fish that feeds on hair algae in the wild. I'm looking into the possibility of either adapting fish to hair algae or getting some that already do.

On a better note; wife is letting me setup her tank in our room where I could adjust light and temp. Might not be doing soil base though because it takes some time to stabilize. Probably will use UGF, sand base, a few wood and rocks, lots of plants, plus itty bitty fish types like cardinals.

However, I'm still thinking of doing the whole soil based aquascaping thing in one of my 50g. Probably the one that doesn't get too much light and tends to be problematic for my bettas. . . . Might set it up once I can better control hair algae. Will probably bleach it (to kill possible algae) before I start.


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

This is the UV sterilizer I have.
https://www.amazon.com/Green-Killing-Machine-Internal-Sterilizer/dp/B002ZVODP0


Ramshorn snails are good algae eaters. I got two in my 8.6 gallon and cleared up diatoms within a week or so. Amano Shrimp is supposed to be very good for cleaning up hair algae. 


What kind of fish can you get locally in the wild? I read blog/story about someone who went to catch local fish in swamp. It was in Thailand or India. There were colorful fish out there. He even collected some attractive aquarium plants. There must be a lot of beautiful fish and plants in Jakarta too


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Unfortunately natural habitat in Jakarta and neighboring cities have been destroyed in the name of development. There used to be lots of small fish we can keep in aquariums. We've lost many species (including birds and mammals) and can no longer see color in our rivers or lakes.

The fish I was talking about is (I think) a type of tilapa and a carp like small barb. In many areas, even in Sumatra (island to the north), ppl use hair algae as bait to catch them. If these herbivores can adapt to hair algae, would other species adapt as well, considering they would accept flakes or other man made foods.

To catch wild fish, I would have to go to Sumatra or Borneo where buche~ plants are still abundant. Even big game fish like catfish, eel and snakeheads, etc. are disappearing from our waters. Small gurami types used to be abundant. . . . It's sad, but the truth remains; many do not have enough respect for wildlife/nature.


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

That's sad. I thought Jakarta still had a lot of wild animals, birds and fish... Development destroys nature so does human greed. People catch them to sell overseas. It's nice to buy beautiful wild caught fish to keep in aquariums. At the same time, I wonder how many of them are left and can thrive in their native habitants. It might be noting if only one fish store the fish. But how many fish stores sell that exact specie in the world? It's sad to think about that. 


I think a lot of Bucephalandra's will be disappeared not far in the future. They are in high demand and traded with $$...


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I recently learned that buce~ in shops were not "farm" grown, but were taken from nature. There were at least 5 types sold in one shop. They're about 23-25/kg locally (probably higher to other countries). What worries me is that they grow very slowly. They might face the same fate as many local animals.

Fortunately some hobbyists realise the importance of domestically reproducing animals and plants. But these are limited as it takes lots of money, space, time, and energy (not to mention patience) which most ppl can't afford.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

How do you clean/siphon gravel if its planted. Will not cleaning have negative effects to the tank in general or the ugf I plan to use. And will it make algae grow?


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

I use an airline tubing and Python Vacuum cleaner. 
https://www.amazon.com/Python-Pro-Clean-Mini-Tube-Hose/dp/B0002APRT2


I usually use the Python without tube to suck up bigger wastes and loose moss. The Airline tubing is to go between plants. 
It's a non betta 8.6 gallon. When I feed my fish, I turn off the filter, so uneaten food always fall onto the same area. I use my finger to let debris float and suck up with the tubes. I like to remove as much gunk as possible. If I don't clean, cyanobacteria will thrive.


I do small water change with vacuum cleaning two a week. No negative effect. It seems my fish (CPD) are constantly breeding, so I'm not worrying at all. Although I have some algae, it's not because of gravel cleaning but of strong light. 


Does ugf stand for under gravel filter? I have no idea. I've never used one...


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I meant the gravel that has plant on them. It's said that I need to plant 75%. So most of the gravel will have plants sticking out of them. How do I vac these areas without disturbing/accidentally pulling out plants.

Yes, under gravel filter. I'm determined to try it. And perhaps combine it with regular filters . . . Not sure yet. I plan to buy/prepare everything in two weeks. Then let wife decide what to use in her tank. What she doesn't use will go into my 50g.


----------



## ryry2012 (Mar 31, 2015)

Unfortunately, it's impossible to vacuum clean without disturbing plants, at least for me. I use an airline tubing and pull out them sometimes.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, I need to work out how to recycle fish waste.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Has anyone kept bucephalandra for years . . . Just curious ; can they grow new plants from the roots? You see, I just bought a bunch of wild buce and noticed what looks as if tiny new plants are growing from roots.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

^ I think they work pretty much the exact same as Anubias; split the rhimozone.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Yeah I figured as much. Those tiny new plants must have broken off and roots were attached to other roots. . . . Should have taken pictures before I pulled them apart


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Bucephalandra ; Apparently there are quite a few of these - new plants growing out of the roots instead of rhizomes branching. Perhaps flower grew and seeds fell . . . The only logical explanation since I can't find info about it (growing from roots).









I thought this species could live out of water during dry seasons. But many unsubmerged leaves (roots under water) slowly melted in less than a week.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Correction on the cause of melting bucephalandra leaves - it's not because it wasn't submerged but it was the heat. I tested some in my room and the survived. . . . . . Too high temps seem to be a big determinant in keeping plants.

Question: will rhizomes with no leaves but heavy roots survive? . . . I've got lots of them.


----------



## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Should survive. Some do, some don't. I'm not sure if they suffer from rhizome rot like Anubias do.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I've had them for over 2 weeks. While some leaves melt due to heat, these rhizomes look fine. 

I'll need to make a nursery for these rhizomes then, and hope for the best. Maybe keep them in a room where it's cooler.


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Monte carlo;
Considering carpet plants. Cuba is definitely too dificult. I can keep them alive, but they​ won't grow for me.

Monte carlo, on the other hand, seems to be easier. The pronlem is that something loves their leaves. Leaves left are the ones growing out of water. 
1. Can I cut the rhizome/stem and float them (in a new container) until they root. Or will that kill them
2. How on earth do you stick them in the substrate? They have tiny roots. Would they die if I burried the rhizome/stem. I know cuba won't survive.

I'm currently learning how to plant each plant. Never thought it would be this difficult. (my frustration, in part, is due to the fact that I'm practically planting with one hand) Even plants with nice long stiff roots like anubias is dificult to keep in the substrate. The only sure method is anchoring each plant or groups of plants with a fishing sinker. . . . If I heavily planted, how will I remove these sinkers?
Note: I am using black sand commonly used locally for aquascaping. I am currently using tiny grains but will be using 3or more mm grains for the actual tank (I plan to use under gravel filter)


----------



## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Another problem I'm facing: if stem plants flourish the bottom will be covered from light and melt. . . How do I avoid this. Is there some sort of formula such as distance per stem?


----------

