# Welcome Iri!!



## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Okay, so some of you may not know me or my story with bettas, but recently my betta boy Kalamari passed away due to an unknown complication. I had him for only 4 months, and battled with numerous health scares while he was in my care. I have posted many times in the Fish Emergency forum, but luckily this is not one of those post. I am extremely caring and love bettas I have to pry myself away from the fish (especially betta section) in any pet store. It breaks my heart to see so many sick betta in these little tiny cups (most who have SBD). I have even emailed customer service on behalf of bad betta care in one of my local stores. So, I'm sure you all can tell my passion for fish.

I went to a new petco in my area today, and couldn't help myself as I walked past the bettas. I ventured over to the baby bettas (just out of curiousity), and there I found Iri (short for Iridescent). S/He (as I don't know what it is yet) was very calm and appeared very healthy. I had saw a few others and narrowed it down to 4. What I like most about Iri, is his(her) color and their calm nature. It's a basic pink/white but has an amazing green iridescence along with it. I can't wait to watch him (her) grow up and see the color develop. I haven't added them to the tank because I want to let the water filter for a few days then test it. It will be a 5.5 gallon tank with a internal power filter for slow flow.

Maybe someone can help me indentify the age from the pictures. I know they have to be about 6-8 months. They're not even an inch yet, but very close. Maybe 3/4". Unfortunately you can't really see the color, I'll have to come back with more pictures. Also I'm not sure if it's a plakat betta or a half moon, any suggestions?


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Very cute little thing! I can't help to identified though . Did Iri ate?
I never had a baby betta i am sure it is amazing to see how they grow and change the color.
I am really glad you got another betta!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank You!! & yep Iri Ate This Afternoon. I'm hoping To Get THem Moved To The Tank Soon So The Temperature Can Be More Stable


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

I love your baby, cutie! I got confused sorry, is Iri will be along in his/her own tank (5.5 gall)?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank You! & Yes Iri WilL Be Alone...Lots Of Room To Swim And Grow, Then I Have A 10 Gal Which i Will Move Them To AFter They Grow A Good Bit


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Hey there, anhel asked me to post to you.

Well looks like you've found yourself a little boy veiltail baby! He's a cutie for sure. Are there any questions about his care? Babies require much more work than adults but I'd be happy to help you along with this one. I do want to note one thing though, Petco babies have just undergone a huge trauma and stress wit being shippedto the store and then spending who knows how long in those cups with poor nutrition, its very common for these fish to not survive long or not make it passed a year. I don't mean to frighten you and I'm sorry if I did, there are still plenty of babies who have grown up very well and healthy. But I just wanted to put that out there so you knew.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you so much for coming. I do have a few questions actually. My tap water has proven a problem in the past because of it's .50ppm ammonia level. My previous betta Kalamari (RIP) actually had serious fin damage due to the ammonia levels, when I switched him to filtered water (filtered through a purr system) his tail grew back and he seemed healthier. Lately, however, when I add the same water to the tanks I get a massive amount of air bubbles (which I believe was an element of his death among with other things, we still don't know). My question is do you think I should try half spring water and half tap water? Oh and I've also tried using Prime on my tap water and still the ammonia wouldn't go lower than .25ppm, again it caused major damage to his tail though his behavior was normal up until his death. 

Also, I've fed the baby micro pellets last night and this morning, I also ordered daphnia eggs in hopes of hatching them, and I will make water soaked flakes part of his diet soon. Am I going in the right direction with his diet?

I have a Whisper Internal Power filter 10i from Tetra, will this be okay? (5.5 gallon tank)

And I sure hope he lives to be longer than that, but if not I understand, he was just so cute I couldn't pass him up. I'm going to raise him the best I can. Thanks for identifying as well. I'm so excited!! He's going to be beautiful. Where do you get your baby betta from?

Questions (recap, in case you don't want to read):
1) do you think I should try half spring water and half tap water?
2) Am I going in the right direction with his diet?
3) Whisper Internal Power filter 10i from Tetra, will this be okay? In a 5.5 gallon tank btw
4) Where do you get your baby betta from? (I'm assuming yours live longer, because I was told you have quite the experience with these little guys)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Bubbles are normal for any water, it's just the oxygen clinging to the tank surfaces until they float to the surface and dissipate. As for the .25ppm ammonia with Prime, that's also normal. What Prime does isn't get rid of ammonia, it binds ammonia to a non-toxic form of ammonium so the fish doesn't get hurt. Now your tests will still show the ammonia because technically it is ammonia still, just in a slightly different, more safe form. The liquid tests we have aren't accurate for that kind of stuff, there is another kind of test you can get but I don't remember what it is, I apologize.

So yes, Prime is working to help detox the ammonia but you won't see a change in the test kit and that is normal. So keep using Prime to help detox the ammonia and keep your fish safe. You can use half tap and half spring if you wish, that's up to you. I will create lower levels of ammonia to help for sure but of course until the tank is cycled it won't matter too much. So that's up to you and what you feel like doing.

As for the 5.5 gallon versus 10 gallon, is there any particular reason you've got him in the 5.5 instead of the 10 gallon? The space won't matter to him and it will actually help him to be in the 10 gallon versus 5.5 unless he's having issues swimming or something. Babies also excrete a chemical we call the Growth Stunting Hormone, we don't know exactly what it is but we know it's there. It's a chemical that can literally stunt their bodies growth and already has since he's been in that cup. There are three things that you can do to help get rid of this hormone in the water; 1) have a moderately planted tank. 2) have him grow up along with some baby guppies or something, as long as it's a different species of fish, it seems to dissipate the chemical more, and 3) Do frequent water changes.

The first and third are the easiest for most people to do since we don't all have access to other baby fish and honestly it's not always worth it to go that route unless you're breeding the other fish as well but for the average keeper, it's easiest to do just the first and third. In regards to the first, plants will actually help out your ammonia issue as well since plants eat ammonia. So having some fast growers like Anacharis and water wisteria will really help out the tank! in more than one way!

And in regards to the third option, if you don't have a heavily planted tank that is steady, we do daily or every other day water changes to help our babies grow. 50% in the minimum generally 100% is not needed though so anywhere in between those percentages for water changes will be good. Ideally you want to do a change every day but we know that's not always easy to do but if you can, please do them! It will help your baby grow up and live a good life!

As for food, any frozen foods will do along with live foods; daphnia, brine shrimp, bloodworms. You want high protein foods like New Life Spectrums Grow formula which is a tiny .5 mm pellet (normally betta pellets are 1mm), however I know NLS is hard to get a hold of sometimes and the Grow formula is kind of expensive. However if you could find the Small Fish formula, that will work as well. Hikari and other micro foods are okay if you're combining them with the live foods as you are, just remember the more protein content the better for them.

Also they need to feed every 3-4 hours, 3 times a day is usually a good standard to go by. You want small but frequent meals. To tell if your baby has eaten enough in one meal, I go by the tummy. Once the tummy starts to get nice and round and looks full, that's when I stop feeding and wait for the next feeding. If you can only get to twice a day feedings that is okay too, just 3 times a day is better 

The filter will be fine, it will be a little strong so I do suggest if you could get a hang on back (HOB) filter, that would be better for the little one since the HOB filter also can hold more beneficial bacteria for your Cycle. But for now, that one should be okay. If you need to, buy some AquaClear foam inserts and stuff them in the intake in the filter and then rubber band one on the outflow of the filter, this will baffle the flow of the water and not push Iri about so much.

I also got my babies from PetCo, it's the only place that sells the babies. I'm glad other places don't sell them, it's cruel and not right for these babies since most of them end up dying from the trauma of shipping itself; being in cold and then of course malnutrition on top of it.

Anyway, I ended up with two boy's; Steve and Tony who lived to be around 6 months with me and both ended up dying within two weeks of each other. Tony died from severe stunting and probably other health issues since these babies are culls from spawns meaning there is usually something wrong with them or the breeder didn't want them in their stock. And then Steve died of depression after his friend passed.
This was Steve when I first got him:


And right before he died:


And this was Tony, I always knew he had issues
 



However there is one success story. Hawkeye came from a friend who had gotten him as a baby at PetCo, they had him for four months in a 1 gallon bowl with water changes once a week, he started to grow like a weed after he came to me 
His first night home with me


And I've had him for 160 day's now which means I got him around....August 20th, lol had to look back in my log for that. He's actually purple but the camera makes him blue.



And a younger flare picture of him so you can see his pretty fins.


And yes, I did get the thread notification the same time you sent the PM so no worries about it not going through.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you so much for all the information!! He is in a 5.5 gallon, because it is more affordable for me at the moment. While that tank cycles he will actually be in a 3 gallon tank. I plan to do water changes about every 3 days until I can get him moved over to the 5.5 gallon (it's cycling). I added two water wisterias and a elephant plant. Also I have a hang on back filter but that proved too powerful even for my other betta who was an adult.

Your bettas are so beautiful, you raised them so well. I am going to try my best and raise mine as such. I'm going to add a filter to the 3 gallon to help out with the cycling out of that stunt hormone. 

You gave me so much insight I really appreciate it. I will definitely be in touch


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

How long do I have to do daily water changes? Like how old would he have to be? I feel like that might be a bit costly if I'm doing half and half. Cost of spring water here is nearly a dollar. I'm scared to use tap alone in fear it might damage his tail.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You can't actually cycle out the hormone, it's in there until you physically take it out with a water change. Also since your water has ammonia in it anyway, just go ahead and forego the 3 gallon and put him into the 5.5, it won't matter either way. What I suggest you get is Tetra SafeStart, this is basically bacteria in a bottle that will help cycle your tanks in around 2 weeks rather than the full month it normally takes otherwise. For your bacteria to grow, it needs an ammonia source so while you have ammonia in your tap, it still needs it from the baby's poop so you should just throw him in there anyway.

I'm glad to be of help! Feel free to ask all the questions you need to understand everything, especially the Nitrogen Cycle since that one can be a bit of a toughie if you don't comprehend right away. It took me around 3 months to fully get it, well not three months of reading but just one day it clicked and I was like "Oh! that's so simple!" lol. 

Also with the HOB filter, there are way's you can baffle it to cut the flow of the water down so it's not so strong. I had the Tetra 10i before and I hated it, took it out after the first week and switched to a wal-mart brand AquaTech 5-15 lol. Here is how to do a sponge baffle roughly, it's not a how-to thread but if you read it, you can get the idea of what to do. http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=56100 (You can also stuff the sponge under the hood instead of rubberbanding it on. I can get pictures of mine if you want to see.

And here's a water bottle filter baffle that many people use as well!
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=30139


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

GNWCO12 said:


> How long do I have to do daily water changes? Like how old would he have to be? I feel like that might be a bit costly if I'm doing half and half. Cost of spring water here is nearly a dollar. I'm scared to use tap alone in fear it might damage his tail.


Damaging his tail would be the least of your concerns. Ammonia often causes ammonia burns which burns their gills as they breathe it in. This causes reddened gills and hemorrhaging in the body at the gills, often can lead to death. Many times in the stores when you see dead bettas, they've died of ammonia poisoning. This is why it's important for your tanks to be fully cycled so the good bacteria can eat the ammonia as Prime detoxes it into the safe stuff; bacteria will then eat it before it can unbind after 48 hours.

Also for the half and half water mixture, you only have to do that until your water is cycled. HOWEVER, if you go back to using Prime then you won't need it since you will do water changes daily, it will detox your ammonia daily therefore not hurting your baby but continuing for the cycle to happen.

Daily water changes need to be done right up until the fish is sexually mature, females will begin to get eggy if they want to breed and males will build large bubble nests. Males will often build small bubble nests when they are juvies but you'll know around when he's mature enough. It's different for each fish but around 3 months of the time that you've had him.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

ok first. I put him in the 3 gallon and he floated right to the top ): he's curved upwards on the top like he has SBD. What did I do wrong. I acclimated him for over an hour. His belly is round, should I skip his next feeding?

I had already moved him into the 3 gallon because the water had been sitting for a couple days. I just set up the 5 gallon yesterday. When is it safe to add him to the 5 gallon?

And I will go back to the powerhead if I see he doesn't like the filter in there now. Why did you dislike the filter if you don't mind me asking


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's very normal for babies to do, he'll go through different stages I found where at one time they like to sort of float there. So tall plants with leaves would be very helpful, and then after that they will like to sink more often and stay towards the bottom, rarely coming up for air some times. And then after that stage they act more normal. it's still different for every Betta but that's what it sounds like he's doing.

Did you just feed him and his belly is round or has it been round all day without feeding?

Water sitting doesn't do anything for you, he can go into the 5.5 right away. Do you know about the Nitrogen Cycle and how it works completely? It's okay if you don't.

Oh and it was a powerhead, not a regular HOB? I didn't like the filter because it was too big and bulky, I like optimal tank space for aquascaping and stuff. Also it was noisy later on and the flow was way too much for my fish, they weren't even Betta's. I had a Dwarf Gourami and some small Tetras and they were much happier after I switched to a HOB, but that's just me.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

ok, so just add him now after he's been in the 3 gallon for about 20 minutes now...no acclimation needed? And no I don't know about the Nitrogen cycle unfortunately

And his belly just became round after his last feeding at 4:30

I'm not sure of the difference between HOB and powerhead honestly. They looked the same to me


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No, you still have to acclimate him but only around a half hour. How did you acclimate him to the 3 gallon?

And that's good for his belly to be round, he should be okay for tonight, feed him in the morning. If you notice his belly doesn't go down in size for more than 3-4 hours, feed a smaller meal so you can successfully feed him 3 times a day without issue.

A powerhead is actually not completely a filter, it's something more to push the water around. It can be attached to a filter though. This picture shows a HOB filter in the back, see it's got a long intake tube and you can sort of see where the water comes out on top because the water movement in the picture. The power head in this picture is attached to a sponge filter http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&b...QcMBk&iact=rc&dur=511&page=2&start=12&ndsp=23

And the Nitrogen Cycle is basically this: you want to grow Beneficial Bacteria (BB) because they eat up ammonia (fish poop and other waste) and they turn it into nitrite, THEN they turn that into Nitrate. Nitrate is then taken out of the water with a water change. That's the basis of it. So because your water has ammonia in it, once your BB grow, they will eat the ammonia right up so it keeps your fish safe from ammonia poisoning.

There are different ways of growing your Bacteria, one includes using seeded material from an already mature tank but since you don't have a cycled tank, you will be doing a Fish-In process. the Bacteria needs food to grow, just like us, their food is ammonia so they need a fish in the water to provide poop to start to grow. Once your bacteria start to grow your ammonia levels are going to get high, this is normal. Then they go back down as Nitrite comes to join the party and spikes up high. Eventually Nitrite also comes down and Nitrate levels start to get really high. You will know when your BB colony has fully grown when both Ammonia and Nitrite levels are at a constant zero. Nitrate will sort of hang out and will usually be around 10-15ppm, as long as it doesn't go over 20ppm then you're good to go!

Let me know if that makes any sense, it will take a while to soak in so no worries. There are also sticky threads over in Betta Habitat, Tanks and Bowls section about the Nitrogen Cycle that will help too.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

ok he's laying completely sideways now...still in the 3 gallon


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

ok I will acclimate him now, I did acclimate him for over an hour before

And ok...do I still change the water every day...will that stop the process?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

And I will post a picture of what I have so you can see, cause I still don't know


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That's okay, I'll help you out.

You did use water conditioner on the 3 gallon right? How did you acclimate him? Did you just let him float in a cup or did you add water from the new tank to his cup as well?

The water changes will prolong it being cycled but it will eventually be cycled anyway so you don't have to worry about it much, just keep doing daily water changes around 50% and use Prime to keep both your Betta safe and to help along the cycle still.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

*Set up*

Ok I attached a picture of how the tank is set up and the power filter I have that may be a HOB I'm not sure


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes that is a HOB, a powerhead would also have a spinny, rotating thing at the end of it's tube. You see that yours does not  Looks like TopFin, is that the TopFin 5.5 gallon tank? I have the same one, that's the one I have stuffed with a sponge and it really helped out 

You never answered my question about acclimating.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes, that;s the exact one I have. I will get a sponge tomorrow and install that filter instead then


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, you can get the AquaClear foam inserts. Do you want pictures of how it looks like? Basically I just shoved it up in the opening where the water comes out, not terribly hard to figure out.

How is baby now and please answer my question about acclimation or I can't help you much.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes please..
and sorry I did mention twice I acclimated for over an hour but I've posted so much you probably didn't get a chance to see it
But he pooped and is now swimming fine...bottom up tho...adding him to the tank in a few minutes, will give you an update then


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Was darting like a crazy fool now he's at the top on his side...spine in an S, belly still round...looks like definite SBD


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No, I asked HOW you acclimated, there are different ways to acclimate and not all are the right ways. I ask because if he didn't get used to the different water chemistry, that could be detrimental to him and make him act the way he's acting now.

Also the way he is acting now, it's not SBD but just a phase as I mentioned earlier. He'll grow out of it.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Sorry for the confusion...every 15 minutes I added a bit of water from the tank and dumped a bit of his out. Then after about 1.5 hours, I floated his cup in the water to match the temperature. I did the same when moving him over to the 5 gallon, but not the floating the cup, because the temperatures were the same in the cup and tank. I did it twice 15 minutes in between.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay thank you for that.

So he should be fine. Tonight after lights out (or if they're already out) throw a towel or a blanket over his tank and then take it off before lights on. The darkness has a calming effect on fish so it will help him settle in more so he's more relaxed  which means he'll eat better for you and not be as susceptible to disease as well, for now at least.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

thank you!! I will be in touch


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Can you show me how your filter is set up?, because mine is still pushing my baby around a bit. All my petsmart had was filter padding, not sure if that's efficient enough or if I did it wrong

He ate very well today 4 pellets this morning and about an hour ago he had two pellets and two brine shrimp. His belly is round, so I will wait another 3 hours before feeding him again.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Also,, I saw two baby tetras today (I'm assuming they were because they were about the same size as Iri) I was wondering if those would work to help with the stunt growth hormone (SGH). And is it possible to put a ghost shrimp or algae eater in there with him? ( I would do either the neon tetras or the shrimp/algae eater NOT both) Do you think the three plants I have would help with the SGH as well?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I wouldn't get tetra's or any fish from the store since they might hold disease and that would be really bad to introduce into the tank. And most likely they weren't babies if they were the same size as Iri, some Tetra's are very small as adults. If anything, I would get baby guppies from a breeder, I could send you a few of mine, three of them if you'd just help out with shipping. Otherwise you can have them. The three plants will help but they won't do much, your best bet is to just continue with water changes. You would have to have at least 3/4 of your tank planted and growing well already to make it work, that's why most people just stick with the water changes; it's easier and less hassle to work through.

As for ghost shrimp, they aren't actually algae eaters, they are scavengers which means they will eat left over flakes or pellets but only fresh ones. They won't eat really old stuff so you do still have to feed them. But they should be okay, I had one of my babies eat theirs and the other didn't mind them until he got older (Tony) and became a master assassin >.< So it depends on the baby. But PLEASE always quarantine new animals or plants for at LEAST two weeks, if not a month before they go in the tank with him! You really don't want to bring disease into his tank since babies are much more susceptible to disease than adults are. And your 3 gallon would work for a good QT tank.

But yes, you can get some algae eaters, probably not for the 5.5 but maybe for the 10. Always research fish before you buy them because some algae eaters get HUUUUGGGEE! And you don't want to have the hassle of trying to rehome a fish because it got too big for your tank! Oto's are dwarf algae eaters but they are very sensitive fish and hard to keep alive, especially if you don't have enough algae and then you have to grow algae once they run out which is harder to do than say sometimes. Algae wafers are not a staple diet for them.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

How much would the shipping cost do you think? I would really love to have some, because I want to raise him the best possible way I can.

I'll hold off on the shrimp then. Definitely will be keeping up with water changes..doing one today at 4pm, already tested the water, and everything checked out. I'm going to use a funnel to pour the water in because I don't want it to go rushing in on him.

And the 3 gallon is actually home for the daphnia I will be growing, and I may possibly be selling the 10 gallon tank, and getting a smaller hospital tank. I have depleted my savings on raising bettas and other fish. :/


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Shipping should be only around 10 dollars for the box, heating pack, double bagged and insulation so it all evens out to keep the fish safe as they travel. No worries though if you can't foot it, we can wait until you've got money or something ;-)


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I can afford it, but will they eat the same food as Iri and can they withstand the daily water changes? Also, How will I pay the shipping, send the money to you maybe? and I have a tight schedule so I'm not sure any time that I'll be home unless it arrives Saturday. I wouldn't want them freezing outside.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I can only send Saturday's unfortunately right now so I'll have to find a time to ship as well for that to work. Guppies eat anything, small pellets and flake foods. They don't take Frozen BW's usually or Brine Shrimp but they love Daphnia which I feed occasionally. And you can send me money through the mail or through paypal. However, don't send anything until I can find a time to ship.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Ok, well soon I will be able to accept packages as I am going to be in the process of switching jobs, but right now it wouldn't work. Just let me know when you have the time and I will send you the money. I have both PayPal and I can send cash or check, whichever you want. Not sure but sometimes when sending money through PayPal they charge the receiver so you end up getting less than what I send, I've experienced that multiple times when my customers ask to have custom invoices (I sell jewelry), so I usually end up charging the extra percentage PayPal takes. I think it's about 2.5% could be more or less by now. Just wanted to inform you in case you didn't know.

Now that I think about it when I first got my 10 gallon tank, I originally had it as a community tank and I had a three tetras, two platies, a guppy, and one other fish (can't remember the name). And the guppy died the first night. I summed it up to the filter was too strong because they were struggling big time to swim, but it could've been stressed out, because now I feel like the tank may have been a bit overcrowded (I was naïve and went off the words of a salesperson saying they'd be fine all together...NOT!!)


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah with Paypal, there are two options; Paying for goods and services (the buyer gets charged) and Sending Money to Friends or Family (You, the seller gets charged). Normally out of courtesy the buyer will use the Sending Money to Friends or Family option so the seller doesn't get charged, but instead you pay for it.

Yeah, that's okay about your first tank. We're all sucked into the hobby that way by being dupped from the salesperson and then finding out later that everything we thought we know, was wrong >.< But that's how we end up here and we learn more! So it's okay in the end :-D

Technically he was right, the fish were fine together, they just needed a bigger tank was all but they could have existed just fine. Well...except for the guppy and platies inbreeding occasionally haha, but that's okay too. Most likely they died from, yes, overstocking the tank but all at once. Since you want to build up your bacteria colony, it's going to take some time to build up, so if you overload the system all at once, it's going to make everything go crash.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh I see well you taught me something! 

And yeah I will probably never try a community tank again, it was so stressful I was worried about those little guys every day and night trying to convince myself they were alright. Eventually they all ended up back at the store, because I was so nervous I was killing them.

Did you happen to get a chance to post a picture of your filter btw?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Happy to help!

Sorry, I'm actually at my mom's house right now which doesn't have all my tanks (yet), the tank is at my dads. I'll take a look through past pictures though, I'm sure I've got something somewhere!! I'll be back with it a little later! Sorry about that.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you! And no problem I'll wait patiently he seems to be getting use to the little bit of flow, but I still want to make sure it's as minimal as possible...if there's another way to make it even less then I'll do it. Also, last night the HOB was making so weird sounds like splashing or something, is that normal with this filter?

Have a nice day, will wait for your reply!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I also have a question about the feeding. If I am to feed him 3 times a day..that should be 8 hours apart correct? Not every 3-4 hours, because when I do that he doesn't eat for over 12 hours after his last feeding


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks! Yeah, sorry I can't find the picture, I know it's in my mass of pictures somewhere but I can't find it right now. I'm going to look online to see if I can find you something. If you google "sponge filter baffle HOB" you should be able to find something similar. Also you can stuff sponge in the intake portion of the tube, like at the end where it sucks everything up, that will also slow the flow down as well.

As for feeding, 3 times daily is the "minimum" I like to feed. I had said, ever 3-4 hours is best but that requires very small meals so he doesn't get over fed, not that it's too bad for young fish since they just metabolize it quickly much like teenage kids. Fish also need to sleep and I only feed mine when lights on until lights off which is from 9:45am-8:30pm which is roughly 10 and a half hours if I counted right lol, so that would mean I feed three times in that span which is approx. every 3 hours to 4 hours. You can space it out more if you like but fish need to sleep as well so I never feed too early since half the time they aren't awake when I am just getting up lol and then they're already going to sleep before I am.

Either way though, every 3-4 hours is the IDEAL time, however we can skew that one way or another, as long as the baby is getting at LEAST 3 meals a day, 2 meals if you absolutely cannot feed them but 3 meals or more is good.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you!

And ok got it, was just setting up a feeding schedule and was worried about that big gap of time where he wasn't getting fed. But that makes sense they need to sleep, and they can't eat while they're sleep haha


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha! That is true. Although! I know my Betta's "sleep swim" at times so I almost wouldn't be surprised if they wanted a midnight snack like some people do ;-) lol


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Quick question: My plants are dying...the elephant plant has yellow leaves and some are shriveling and the water wisteria has brown leaves. I bought some nutrient tablets that go under the gravel since they are not in direct sunlight. Do you have any suggestions? And will this harm Iri, should I take them out?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Tank temperature is at 80. 
Nitrates- 0ppm
Nitrites- 0ppm
Ammonia- >.25ppm
pH- 6.8


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh and about diet...can he eat cooked egg yolk and meat that us humans eat like tuna, chicken, etc (without preservatives and seasonings of course)?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The Elephant plant I don't believe is actually aquatic. I meant to comment on that earlier, sorry. You got it from PetCo right? They are notorious for selling non aquatic plants such as Mondo Grass/Kyoto, Peacock Fern, and Umbrella Plant are the ones I can think off. I would take your plant out since I'm 99% sure that it's not aquatic. 

The water wisteria will be okay though, take off the dying leaves. What it is doing is basically acclimating to your water chemistry since it is most likely different from your pet store. So pick off the dying leaves and it should come back in a week or two. You do have tank lights, right? Are they incandescent?

And yes he can eat boiled egg yolk but it's not as nutritious as NLS or Omega foods. You can use it in conjunction of the other food, so like once or twice a week and switch it up. That would be fine


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Got from Petsmart It's Actually Anubias, I Meant To Come Back And Say That. I Do Have Tank Light But I'm Not Sure If It's Incandescent. I Keep It Off So Iri Doesn't See His Reflection And Get Stress. And I Read While Researching Daphnia Can Get Parasites, How Does This HappeN? And How Do I Know When It's Not Safe To Feed Him Because They Are So TiNy? What Size Should They Be Before Feeding To Him?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

How Do You Hatch Your Daphnia? I Have My Eggs In A 3 Gallon TaNk W/ A Cfl Light On Them And An Air Pum To Form Bubbles Inside...The Temperature Stays Between 68-74...I Planned To feEd Them Baker's Yeast And Aged Green Water From Spinach


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, anubias is fine as long as you don't bury it in the gravel. It has something called a Rhizome which is the green stick thing that the leaves grow out from on top of it and roots on bottom. The roots can be buried but not the Rhizome which will rot the plant if it's planted. Anubias and Java Fern do best when attached to something like lava rock, driftwood or any decor with lots of little nooks and crannies in it for it to attach to.

Plants need a minimum of 6 hours of light to grow each day so yes you should be turning his lights on. If he flares that will be fine and it's actually good exercise for him. If he's excessively flaring, which he probably won't do anyway, we can talk about ways to cut down on his reflection but he should be totally fine. Light is good to help regulate their night/day cycle as well.

Any live food can give parasites but it's generally if it's from sources you don't know about like if you randomly took worms from outside and fed him. Otherwise, the chance of him getting parasites is pretty low. Also I don't feed live foods, I feed frozen foods so I can't help out with the hatching process or anything, sorry.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

oh I see and they are in indirect sunlight. My room is filled with light from the window but they are off to the side. Should I still keep the light on in his tank which I believe is a UV light, I'm not sure it came with the tank? The light from the daphnia tank is right beside them so they can light from that also, and that's a high powered fluorescent light

And thank you so much for all your help, you are truly helping out so much...you deserve an award


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, the indirect light is not enough to grow the plants. You can take the light out to see what it says, it should give you some information on the screw in part of the bulb. If you find it and don't know what it means, you can take a picture for me and I can help you figure it out 

High powered fluorescent light means nothing when it comes to plants or most aquatic things really. You can use a low wattage CFL and get better effects, it all depends on the kelvin rating of the bulb which is the color of the bulb. 6,500K is "daylight" lights which is what the sun is clocked in at around high noon when it is the highest and brightest in the sky. This is the best for plants or any Kelvin rated higher, then it just depends on what color you really prefer. 10,000K is obviously much higher but it won't have different effects on the plants, it just emits more of a reddish light I believe rather than the more yellowish that the 6,500K.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

the bulb says "hatch lighting, 15t10/cl 120v"
the cfl light I have on the daphnia beside the tank says "26W, 120VACA 60Hz 400mA FLE26HT2/2/XL/D"

I have no idea what any of that means..the cfl lights is super bright and the bulb in the tank is somewhat an orange color

Also he keeps chasing his reflection like crazy and he does it non stop...I can't tell if he's flaring but he's running up and down the side of the tank and nipping at the glass like a mad man


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He's not seeing his reflection. Tank surfing is extremely normal when they are first introduced to a tank, any Betta of any age. It's a sign they are stressed but it's just because it's a new place and a huge move for them. We may not think of this as a big move but this is their entire world for them; being moved from a store to a bigger tank. Surfing is very normal.

I have one of my girls who nips at the tank when she wants food, not saying that's a universal sign, but just something interesting. And then my mom goes up to the tank and opens her mouth repeatedly at her, imitating her and Selkie just looks at her like......what the heck? Just give me food already! lol. She's a doll.

Is the first one a tube fluorescent? Or is it an Incandescent, the difference would be sort of obviously. Fluorsecent are normally swirled tubes if it's a CFL and a straight tube is well...a straight tube lol. Incandescent would have a fillament inside the bulb and looks like one you'd put in a ceiling light (Sorry if you already totally knew that. Have to explain since I don't know exactly where you're coming from and all. Sorry!)

The second CFL is 26 Watts, the second part of all that is just giving you specs like how much energy it's using, what it's operating at and stuff like that. Kind of useless for measuring how well it will do in a tank though lol. But 26 watts is pretty high! Make sure your hood can handle 26 watts, unless it's a clamp on light or something, then it's good up to like 150W I believe, could be wrong on that number but it's much higher.

Anyway, I was looking more for the kelvin rating, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't tell you on the bulb.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Well he's not quite going back and forth on the tank from one side to the other, because I have seen tank surfing before and this is more of him staying on one side and going up and own looking like he's barking at something is the best way I can describe it and he was fed not to long ago so I can only assume that he's seeing his reflection because when I lean to the side in his direction there is a reflection being seen. My only concern is that he stresses himself to the point his immune system is so low that he will catch something or that when he grows up and does it his tail will rip. And what if he is secreting the hormone at high levels trying to stunt this imaginary fish he's attacking? He runs himself out of breath too. But when the lights are off he doesn't do it, he's like a calm baby when they're off. (Oh gosh I really sound like a concerned mom now, but I really am at this point lol)

And the cfl light isn't going in the hood because it's for the daphnia...it's just set up beside his tank so the tank catches some of that light...the cfl is swirled and the light in the hood of his tank is tubular which yes I'm assuming is incandescent....but for some reason the tank hood has writing on the inside that says fluorescent bulbs up to 15W.

I'm not much of a light bulb specialist I only know the basics, so I appreciate the help and no offense is taken, I am truly only skilled in biology and this is more of a physics thing which I am descent at but not an expert. I could convert watts into kelvins I was just too lazy to do the math. If you feel that would be more helpful than watts please let me know


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Here is a video of his current behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOZ-LD4zMoM


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He's so cute! He's not flaring but he is showing off haha. Don't worry, he'll do this for a week or so but he'll gradually stop after a while once he realizes that it's nothing. He doesn't look stressed at all and in fact looks very healthy! He's not going to catch something from being a little stressed at his reflection. You can instead tape construction paper or some mat white paper to the back to cut down on the reflection.

The tubular light is a Fluorscent, not Incandescent. There are two main forms of fluorescent lights; tubular/tube (also usually they are bi-pins meaning they have two pins at the end where it connects) and CFL which are compact fluorescent lights which are the swirl ones.

And yes, if the hood says no more than 15 Watts you should never use more than 15 watts, it could create a whole bunch of electrical problems basically. I don't know the super details of it but that's what I gather and I know it's not good to overload a system. 

I'm sure you could convert the Wattage to Kelvin in some form but Kelvin is the color rating where wattage is the measure of energy the bulb is using. But all is well. If you can stop off at walmart you can buy 6,500K (daylight) bulbs that are low wattage, like 5-9W's which will help lower your electricity bill as well and you could use those in the hood. Unless the hood only takes bi-pin tubes which then you would have to figure out the length and size. Since it's only 3 gallons I'm assuming it's a 9 inch and a T10 since it said that above there which is the size. So you would have to find something that is 9 inches, T10 and under 15 watts as well as Daylighting around 6,500Kelvin.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you. I have never seen him flare only do the nipping thing...he's so feisty. he was so calm before I moved him to the tank now he's all boisterous and hyper. 

And ok, that's a lot to go by. I will try and do some searching after the snow melts around here. This is actually the 5 gallon tank...the daphnia have the 3 gallon tank...sorry I have so many tanks it can get confusing sometimes. The bulb is about 4.5 inches long

And oh I see I was thinking of Kelvins and Watts in the physics form not much so about lighting in bulbs. Too much school >___<


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, yeah four and a half inches is definitely not a tube fluorescent, more like incandescent especially if it gives off an orange light, that's what low kelvin is, orange/yellow light. Can you get a pic of it or find something similar online so I can just be sure? Okay so 3 gallon has the 26 watt cfl and the 5hase the other one? Did I get that right?

And now worries! At least you've got your degree (I think you said that), I'm still in the process of mine. Well technically I'm a senior and could graduate now but I'm a junior in my major so still another year but I'm probably going too double major in something like fisheries or....something fish related ^_^


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes I found something online but it was a bit expensive...it was a daylight t10 tube CFL, but what I've done is move the daphnia tank to the window and so now I point the 26W CFL onto Iri's tank. And yes you were correct the daphnia tank had the 26W and the 5 gallon had the tube light, but now the daphnia have the window and the 5 gallon has the 26W. The first thing he did was start "showing off" ha...I would put some paper over it but then the light wouldn't come through onto his tank. I will probably invest in that tube light when I get the money, they're crazy expensive. 

And I wish, I graduate with my Associate's in May. I majored in Biology but when I do go off to get my Bachelor's I will probably try to double major as well, biology and genetics.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, somtimes you had to do some digging to find a good deal. Try not to settle on the first thing you see since there could be a better deal out there, or solution. Is the 5 gal a regular rectangle or a different shape? Like, does it have a brand to it or anything? I'm wondering if you can just get a 5.5 inch clamp light from Home Depot or Lowes and then get a small 6,500K mini CFL from wal-mart for a few bucks and clamp it on. That would mean it wouldn't have the hood but you can use cling wrap if you really want to, or take measurements of the tank and get a plexsiglass lid at Home Depot where they would cut it for you. You could also cut that in half the long ways to make it so it can move so you don't have to take the whole thing off to feed him or anything. Those are just a few ideas, but it would probably be cheaper than buying the tubes online.

When you said the light was 4.5 inches long, were you talking about the tube or the previous light for the Daphnia? And the daphnia will be fine with window light, just make sure there's no drafts since I do know that daphnia like higher temps like 80-84 is great for them and lots of sunlight and algae will be good. You can get liquid food for the daphnia as well. One of the professors in the building I woke at raises Daphnia so I know a little about them, just not about the hatching process or anything. I do know they are wicked easy though.

Well congrats on your almost finished degree!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I have it set up like this now. I will probably get some plexy glass depending on the cost. If not I'll go to the local craft store, they have these mesh cut out that may work I need to get the measurement first. I could probably create my own instead of spending so much money. 

And oh the tube was 4.5 inches, and the people I got it from had horrible instructions so many ambiguities it was crazy, they were saying temperatures of 68-90 and I'm thinking that's a really big gap. But their tank stays around 68-78. I don really know how that affects them. But if it doesn't work out I'll jus order more eggs and possibly a heater. I'm hoping it's easy. I do see the little eggs have grown antennas (or whatever they call them on daphnia) so hopefully in the next few days I'll have some daphnia, and feed them yeast and green water, and I'll look into the liquid food also

And thank you! Congratulations on being a senior, I can't wait until I get there.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, i still have to further look into the costs of plexsi-glass as well since I have a very odd shaped tank that didn't come with a lid when I found it. It's a 33 gallon Flatback Hexagon, exactly like this one: http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/myswtsins/33 Flat Back Hex/100_1587.jpg and I actually have to reseal it too but anyway, extremely hard to find a lid for that sucker so I think I might actually get glass for that one just to make it look nice, anywho! I'm rambling!!

Can you get a picture of the bulb because now I'm just getting confused. The smallest tubular fluorescent they have is 9 inches so it can't be a fluorescent bulb. Not that it matters much but it'd be nice to finally figure it out lol.

And yeah, daphnia like pretty much any temperature but they are most comfortable around the 80's but they'll be totally fine in any of the temp range that they mentioned, so it's not that weird at all  I know it seems like a lot.

And thanks! I mean, I still have a year left technically and then I'll be continuing until I'm 26 because that's when my insurance runs out and I stop having free tuition....yeah, my mom's been working at the college for 27-28 years now so it's been worth it and since I'm the only kid taking advantage of it or that can, I'll be going forever >.< it's nice but by that time all of my friends will have been long graduated, I can make new friends easily but they won't be the same, you know? Anyway, good luck on your Bachelors too when you get there :-D


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh wow that tank is beautiful, Yeah I have never seen a lid like that, good luck finding or creating one

I attached some pictures of the bulbs. The first is what came in the tank hood the second is the one is the one pointed on Iri's tank now

I wish I had free tuition, but yeah making new friends is always fun but they never replace the old ones. But thank you! Same to you and your Master's if that what you're pursuing.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, yeah the first one is the Incandescent bulb, that one does basically...well lack of better word, poop for the entire tank. It can't grow any plants and doesn't look appealing IMHO. The second is the regular Spiral CFL. The tube light I was refering to is this one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21j+wBegGSL._SY300_.jpg that's a regular Fluorescent tubular light. Sorry I know it can get confusing since the Incandescent sort of looks like a tube too haha. My apologies!

And thank you! Yeah, I'm not going for Masters quite yet, still working on my Bachelors. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to get free tuition with Masters, it only works for Undergraduate for Associate/Bachelor programs but hey, free tuition is free tuition and I'm ever so thankful to have it


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

OHH ok, I see. Well I wanted to update you since you're helping out so much. He's doing great and growing so big I will have to get pictures up soon. He eats like a pig...he's up to 12-14 pellets in one meal then 3 brine shrimp in another. I have to cut back on his feedings sometimes because he eats so much. My daphnia still haven't hatched not sure if I did something wrong (which is highly possible) or if they take a while to hatch but once those hatch I will probably post a video of him eating them. He would run him near death on the one side of the tank he saw his reflection so I ended up putting a background on it, now he just goes to the front of the tank and does it, he's all like "you can't stop me woman, I do what I please" crazy boy. The filter still blows him around a little but he's gotten better control of it and knows which spots have a stronger current than others. I nearly gave him a heart attack yesterday when I put a mesh canvas against the tank in hopes of blocking his reflection, well let's just say he went into full freak out mode, and darted all over the tank throwing himself into the filter and heater. I was so scared that he was hurt, he was breathing so deeply, but I just turned off the filter and put his blanket over the tank for a few until he calmed down. All is good now. Every now and then he breathes rapidly from having to fight the current and being a silly boy chasing his reflection. Also the current seems to pull or push his tail so his body looks like a "C" but he straightens out when he swims away so I have no worries there. I hoping by next week he's a little over an inch, because according to a chart a found at 7 weeks (which I'm predicting he is) they should be a little over an inch. Right now I would say he's 0.9"...it's very hard to measure cause he always runs away. But I just wanted to share that mini update. Do you have suggestions or everything sounds good?

And yes!! I would be taking full advantage of free tuition too if I had it lol...hopefully I'll get a full ride scholarship considering I have all A's but we'll see, it seems like they don give out full scholarships as much as they used too.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That chart isn't always correct, especially for PetCo babies since we don't know how long they've actually been in the cups. So he could very well be over 3 months old now and getting on four with you but we'll never technically know. With the trauma of shipping and sitting in the cup for maybe only a few days up to even a months time, he could be any age. This also means he's not going to grow at the rate of that chart, that chart is for normal Betta's being brought up by their breeder.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh ok. Well this may be a dense question, but how will I know if he dies of stunting if I can estimate his age? I would need to be able to know how old he was in ordered to consider him stunted, right? I try to think of him dying but I remember you mentioning they don live very long and one of yours passed away from stunting, but how did you know? Sorry I do not mean to be insensitive, I'm just very curious and I like to be educated. I hope I did not offend you


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No worries, I'm not easily offended or anything ^_^

You will know, if it happens it's been over a month and a half or more with him and he still hasn't grown or not much at all, he's most likely stunted. Steve and Tony were my first PetCo babies, I actually had a journal with them if you were interested in giving it a read or skim (it's kind of long) to get a general idea of my mistakes along the way and seeing how stunted the two of them were. I believe they had been in their cups for a while before purchasing them though. But I got Hawkeye around three-four months after them and Hawkeye grew like a weed within his first month! He's still alive too today and doing very well. Most likely my friend who had originally purchased him got him just as he came into the store so he didn't spend much time in the cups.

This is all theory though since there is no real way to tell who is and who isn't stunted. Some babies produce more hormone than others depending on their size, attitude, and more. There's no way to measure it though since we don't even fully understand what it is in the first place.

But in all, you will know come a month an a half to two months. His fins should definitely grow regardless of his body so you can't judge it soley on that I've found. Tony was the smallest of the two, Steve actually grew more but died of depression after Tony died from stunting or the equivalent to what we believe is stunting. Steve was also small for his age, Hawkeye surpassed them greatly and he was much younger than them by around four-five months was my guess, again it's really all guessing and theories at these stages though. 

But anyway, yes you'll be able to see it if he's not growing.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Ok That Makes Complete Sense. I Would Love To Read Your Journal If You Don't Mind, I Love To Educate Myself And I Think That Would Help Me Out So Much


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Certainly! I haven't updated it in a while since Hawkeye grew up and I show him in my regular journal now lol but feel free to browse! http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=167010


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

So, I'm running into a bit of a problem with Iri's afternoon feeding, he won't eat anything, I tried the brine shrimp, pellets, and flakes and he spits it all out. Do you know what's going on? He has been less active today, I'm going to do a water change and see if he perks up, but what should I be concerned about?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

GNWCO12 said:


> So, I'm running into a bit of a problem with Iri's afternoon feeding, he won't eat anything, I tried the brine shrimp, pellets, and flakes and he spits it all out. Do you know what's going on? He has been less active today, I'm going to do a water change and see if he perks up, but what should I be concerned about?


ok immediately after the water change his behavior was back to his feisty self. I still haven't tried to feed him, I will wait about 30 minutes as I continue to monitor his behavior. I test the water in the tank before I replaced it and the pH was low not sure if that was the problem but like I said he pepped right up as soon as I added the new water. He had me scared for a second there. I hope he eats it's been about 5 hours since his last feeding


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

no luck getting him to eat...he chews up the food then spits it right back out


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sounds like it's too big for him, except you said flakes too which he should have been able to eat :-/ He should be okay without dinner tonight, I would just let him brew and if he doesn't eat tomorrow I'll try to find something to help. I'm not sure what it would be other than; food too small, picky eater, or just doesn't feel like eating....I'm not sure.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

no these are the same things I've been feeding him all along with no problem. He ate perfecting this morning, but he hasn't eaten since then. And I can tell he's hungry because when I turn the filter off (he now knows it's time to eat when the filter goes off) he comes racing to the top. And he will chomp the food like he wants to devour it but after chopping he spits it out like "eww what is this" but I don get it because he's been eating it this whole time like it was a five star meal. I just tried to feed him again and he did the same thing. So that means he only ate one time today  I really hope he eats tomorrow if not maybe I'll try some egg yolk. My daphnia still haven't hatched so I'm almost certain I messed something up, I will have to order some new eggs when I get the money and try again. My poor baby is going through a phase, I wish there has a way to force him to eat. That way I know he'd be eating something at least. He's behavior is still normal, he's not a hyper as he was this whole week though. He keeps looking at the top for food, but it's crazy cause he won't eat what I give him. Sounds like he's demanding a new diet, but I really don't know. Like I said I hope he eats in the morning, I will try the brine shrimp first


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I think it takes around 3 days for Daphnia to hatch.

As for the baby, I'm not sure. At least he did eat once though and it's not going to kill him if he only eats once a day, just not as healthy as all. Let me know what happens today.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

it's been about a week and still no hatching so I'm assuming it was a mistake I made

and this morning he ate but very little compared to what he's been eating, when I tried to feed him more he acted uninterested just looked at the food, but it's so apparent he's hungry because he nips at everything from the plant leaves to bubbles floating in the tank. 

I tried everything brine shrimp, flakes, pellets, egg yolk...and he only ate like two small pieces of brine shrimp spit everything else out.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

As long as he ate something that's good! Just keep trying to feed him and hopes he eats is all you can do really.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

will do! I was thinking about trying a pea next time...maybe he's constipated, he was eating like a piggy all last week


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

GNWCO12 said:


> will do! I was thinking about trying a pea next time...maybe he's constipated, he was eating like a piggy all last week


Great news! He ate 5 little pieces of a pea, and was begging for more but his belly was round so I didn't give him any more, hopefully this will help with his constipation if he is indeed constipated, cause I don't think he can survive off of peas solely lol 

He's turned vegetarian on me, oh gosh such a little diva he is!!:roll: I have class this afternoon so I won't be able to feed him again until around 11 tonight, I might try to feed him something small before I leave. We will see how it all goes


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

You're actually not supposed to feed peas, they don't digest properly. If you want a laxative use Daphnia or Epsom Salts although Daphnia is better; live, frozen or freeze-dried.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh, I've read wrong everywhere then cause I read they were a good laxative, I've never seen otherwise, oh geez :/
Well it's the only thing he seemed to eat, so I'll try something else next time, starting a new daphnia hatch next week probably


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

It's not going to kill him lol, it's just not something you should feed a carnivore/insectivore as our Bettas are. It's fine for omnivores and herbivores like livebearers/goldfish.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

oh I see, maybe that's why probably the people recommending it don't know that. ha I was just happy he ate something


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah ^_^ no worries though, I'm glad he ate too. He'll go through phases where he'll eat everything and then he won't eat and he'll go back and forth with it usually. My boys went through that as well.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

That's reassuring, I'm still in the process of reading your journal. I ended on page 9, I love it so entertaining and fun to read about their adventures and how persistent they were


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Haha, yeah, they were little buggers for sure!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

*Update!*

EUREKA!!! He ate this morning with no problem!!! And he gave me a surprise to wake up to this morning...I have pictures!!!

First I show you how much he's grown 
Second...IS THAT A BUBBLE NEST?!! yaayyyy look at my boy go HAHA...if not I got entirely too excited for nothing :checkedout:

And of course it turns out he's pink, blue, and a bit of red lining his tail. So far off the green he was when I got him haha I love that!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yay! I was hoping he would eat, they really are like little kids sometimes; refusing to eat their dinner veggies lol. And as far as the bubbles it looks like it's from the filter unfortunately. Baby Bettas aren't capable of creating larger nests, they will occasionally make small ones here and there but they won't create real ones until they are sexually mature.

Iri looks so cute though!! Looks like my past twin females Aurora and Stardust:


Here's Stardust


And Aurora lol, yes twins but I was able to tell them apart for a while from their ventral fins and then Stardust got a purple grizzling over her body where Aurora didn't ^_^


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes, I hope he eats his lunch or we are going to have a long talk!!
and OH MAN haha something told me I was getting too excited, I figured babies couldn't build bubble nests but I wanted it to be so true 
Thank you!


And omg how cute, they are so precious and big girls for sure!! I can't get over how adorable they are!! AWW


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Yay!!! He is gorgeous and i love his tank!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks ANHEL123!!
he's growing up so fast!! I've only had him for a week and a half and he's growing like wildfire. I'm just excited to see his final coloring, because he's starting to get a purplish tint to him!! From green to blue to purple that would be awesome!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

My god yes they were big! I bought them as tiny females and by the time a horrible disease ripped through my sorority, they were easily just at 2 inches in just body length. They were both PK females and one of my VT females did get almost as large as they were but most of my VT girls stayed smaller. They were all adorable though and I do miss them.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that! I wanted to do a sorority once but I was entirely too scared. But WOW two inches, they were huge haha I think I've only dealt with VT. I think I will venture out when I decide to get another betta. I really want an elephant ear betta but I heard they have so many health issues. I really do enjoy raising bettas and caring for them so when they get sick, I become devastated and that would probably crush me seeing such a huge betta sick in a tank. I'd be compelled to get him a 10 gallon tank because they're so big haha

I found this link:
http://www.digiaquascr.com/Blog/BettafishSpecies.htm

How do I know Iri is a VT the droop is so minimal, What would it take for him to be a super det, because his tail kind of looks like a mini version of that picutre


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, it was partly my fault for not quarantining all the fish before they went in and it brought disease in :-/ I'll be doing another smaller sorority soon though 

PK are Plakat Betta's, short finned Betta's who are closer in relation to their ancestral wild Bettas. Long finned Bettas are actually human made, we bred for longer fins through many generations and got to this point today. There are many different tail types within both long finned and plakat (PK).

As for EE's, they don't have health issues, just issues swimming around since their pectoral fins are so big and all. So lots of tall plants are good for them so they can rest when they need to. It's actually Double Tail (DT) betta's that have more health issues. These are actually mutations to get the double lobed tails, and more often than not their bodies are shortened through the mutation, this squishes the swim bladder which gives them issues swimming properly and stuff. But otherwise, they don't have "health" issues.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I thought I'd come to you with an update since it's been awhile:
I don't see much growth in his body, which could just be my view, because my cousin came in and was amazed at how much he grew she was like woah he's doubled in size how did he grow so fast, so that may just be my eyes playing a joke on me. I still change his water every day, and today something amazing happened, he flared for the first time!! He does it on one side of the tank every so often, so I'm hoping it doesn't become excessive or I'll have to find a way to block his view. He's been eating like a champ, more and more hungry every day, he's eating bubbles as we speak, so greedy! I've gotten one hatchling in my daphnia collection, so I'm hoping to see some more grow really soon. I talked to the seller and they sent me another pack for free so I was so excited and I'm so happy that at least one so far has hatched. That's all I have for now...I will keep you posted!!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Awesome! I was just thinking about you and Iri today actually and meant to comment earlier, it's been a busy day though!

Yeah, as owners we often don't see the growth that they go through since we are in constant contact. This is why I take pictures all the time so I can compare the growth over the weeks to make sure things are on track and stuff! I'm glad he's eating well though! That's definitely key ingredient here ^_^ And congrats on the daphnia as well :-D


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I understand, as you can tell it's been a busy week for me also. Sorry for the late reply

But yes, I should start taking pictures, I believe I'm raising him the best I can so even if he is stunted there isn't much more I could do, but I believe he is not, he's growing at a decent rate and has truly doubled in size. Just seems a bit small to me. Today I have had him for 5 weeks, so we're doing good, made it out the one month round. And turns out my daphnia were actually triops eggs and only one hatched, the seller again said they would send a new pack so I have to wait on that. I fed Iri the one triops and he was thrilled, he attacked it like a shark and even after he finished it, he was still looking for food, his belly was so big. He is such a greedy little boy.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

lol! Sounds like he's doing great! I'm real happy he's doing well and you are as well ^_^


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes we're doing great, and like I mentioned earlier, I think he's actually a pk or super delta, i have pictures, he has grown a lot


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh wow grow fast and gorgeous!!!!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you!!! I've been trying my very best to care for him, it's been a little over 6 weeks since I got him


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He's absolutely beautiful! Unfortuntately he's not a PK lol, he'd have much shorter fins. But he is a wonderfully fantastic VT that has a 180 degree spread already!!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Awesome always thought VT had that droopy tail like my previous baby. His tail is so round it's like a C, it's so amazing I love watching him flare he's turned out to be so feisty and omg his beard is adorable


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lol! Love his little beard and flare :-D

VT's can have a variation of sizes, degree spreads and ends of the tail. There are round tails which are like Iri's but bigger, his tail will droop as he ages. Then there is the regular veil and then spade which is also a variation :-D


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh wow didn't know there were so many. I'm so excited to watch him grow


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I have a quick question and I'm a bit concerned. Today I noticed Iri scratching himself against things. I put a clay pot in his tank a couple weeks ago and today already he has purposely rubbed himself against it 3 times. It's like he goes to try and lay sideways on it like a bed but then jerks away, after that he rubbed himself against the thermometer then jerked away. He had about 2 twitches after that and is now doing fine. This is the first time I've seen him rub himself against something. I don't see any parasites of white cottom on him, and from what I can tell he doesn't have velvet. He does have some gold on this head and belly, but it's always been like that so I figured it was his coloring. He still acts feisty, eats well, etc but it's just random times he rubs himself against things. Should I be concerned? I really am already :/


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

*Pictures*

Here are pictures. I'm so worried the more I look at him the more he keeps rubbing against things. Sorry they are sideways


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Have you changed anything in his tank or with his care? Sometimes stress can cause them to flash as well; usually when moving to a new tank or something they can do that. Sometimes if the fish is already stressed; adding or removing decor can make them do that as well depending on how attached they are to their decor and whatnot. There are a whole host of reasons much like tail biting; sometimes you'll never figure out why they do it.

He looks happy and healthy to me! He is absolutely stunning! I love his color so much!!! He is going to be one amazing fish when he is all grown up!!

For now, continue to watch him to see if you spot anything. You said you added the pot? Perhaps try taking it out, maybe it is just a stress thing and he'll go back to being normal. He does look a little bloated in these pictures, were they after a feeding? If so, then he looks fine but if not then he may have some internal parasites but if he does then you've caught them early and we should be able to help him out!!

So to reiterate; what have you changed in decor, feeding, tank care? Has his tank moved locations at all? Is he in an area where there are lots of people or is he by himself? Have you had any large rainfalls where you live or lots of melting snow? I ask because around this time of year when everything is melting, things can get into the water system like more ammonia and the city will put more chlorine in the water which could affect him negatively as well.

EDIT: sorry for the late response! I was out of state all weekend


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I just added the clay pot, nothing else has changed regarding decor. I've noticed the water wisteria has become almost clear with a few dark spots on it, I haven't taken it out because he likes to go hide in them, but I'm almost sure they're dying (I will include pictures). I was mostly concerned with the gold on him and wanted to make sure that was his coloring and not velvet. Yes, the photos were taken after a feeding, he still eats well, flares, and swims around. It's just that darn gold coloring paired with the scratching that bothers me, even before adding the pot he would scratch against the plant and the Buddha figure. It's like he's trying to lay his side against them and go to bed but after he does he jerks away, and it's not a constant thing, it's just random, but he always does it at least twice in a row. I can never get him in a video before he does it. 

There has been a lot of snow lately, so it's possible they could've added something to the water. He is now on 100% tap water with prime added to it so that would explain some things. I also added freeze dried bloodworms to his diet, he has had home raised fairy shrimp, and still the same pellets (hikari brand). 

Today I noticed some clear stringy things hanging off his fins. I've seen it before, but it always falls off before I can get a picture, but I got a picture and am going to post that as well. I will be so sad if he has velvet and columnaris but I will fight it if I have to. I just wanted to be sure that's what was happening before I started dosing him. I'm thinking about going back to half spring/half tap, because these problems weren't as prevalent before I switched him to full tap which was about a month ago.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

The stringy stuff is his slime coat shedding. You don't have any salts or nothing in the water do you? Also, do you get water straight from tap or does it go through any water purifiers in the sink?

As for the gold, it looks like normal coloration to me! Here's a fish that has velvet and what it looks like:
View attachment 317618


Also what you are describing is called Flashing.

And the plants look like they are just melting a little bit which is fine. Where they recently added? If so then they are just adjusting to the water chemistry of your tank and will start to grow normally soon. You can pluck off the dead/dying leaves if you don't like the looks of them. It will also help the plant to focus on growing new, healthy leaves as well even though it looks sort of silly with just a plain stalk and no leaves. You can pluck off the bottom ones for now so he can still play in the leaves at least and then pluck upwards as new leaves start to grow out.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

No salts added, and water comes straight from the tap, and I only add prime to the water. And thank you for that reassurance, I was hoping it was just his coloring

And is flashing detrimental to his health, like is it a signs that something worse it coming? Or is it just a sign of stress? If so should I add some stress coat to his next water change?

And ok I thought they may be dying and causing ammonia spikes, but I will pluck the bottom ones, I also added a mineral tablet into the gravel to help them grow.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Flashing can be signs of many things; internal parasites, external parasites (Ich, Velvet, etc.), gill flukes and stress. So this is why I was ruling out most external parasites like Velvet and he definitely doesn't have Columnaris. Gill Flukes are possible I'm not so experienced with them, I do know that General Cure is a good medication for Gill Flukes though. 

Stress Coat doesn't really de-stress them, that's more for helping to aid fins growing back. I know the name can be a little misleading in that sense, of course there is the old debate on what Aloe Vera really does for the fish and whether or not it is good to add. I would just stick with Prime; it does more as far as taking things out of the water that may be harmful to him which will keep him more less stressed than if you used Stress Coat.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Do you think I should invest in general cure? I'd hate to medicate him if it's just stress and there's something else I can do to de-stress him. He's gotten quite attached to his clay pot and now goes inside of it or hides between it and the glass. 

And I will continue with prime, and continue to monitor his behavior if it gets any worse, I will definitely be going back to half spring/half tap and update you. Thanks so much for the help. I was freaking out a bit there.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, try the half/half first to see if that helps. Did you gradually change or just do one change one day and start to use tap? You can hold off on General Cure for right now, let's make sure it's not stress related first. You can do the towel/blanket over top the tank at night trick again to see if that helps keep him unstressed.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I slowly transitioned him to tap. The only reason I did that was because of cost purposes, and no longer having a job along with changing his water everyday seemed like just about the only option. I do have carbon in the filter, so do you think maybe that's taking the prime out? Also, I noticed he flashes more when the tank lights are on, he does it less when the lights are right maybe once or twice, but when they're on he does it like 3-5 times. I tried to check his gills, the side that I can see looks healthy and pink, the side I can't see (because he never flares in the proper direction) is the side he keeps scratching. I have ParasiteGuard if it comes to that, would that be an equivalent to General Cure. I'll try to do the half and half at least until I have to continue doing daily water changes, let's see it's been about 2 months since I had him (will be on the 24th...whew time flies). I'm thinking about moving him to the 10 gallon (since I haven't found the heart to sell it, but I really want to solve this flashing probably before I disrupt his world and stress him out. I will start the towel thing again.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

No Carbon doesn't take the Prime out but if you can't afford the water then that's not a good idea either :-/ Have any family or friends who have well water possibly not effected by the melting ice/snow that you could fill up a few gallon jugs?

Actually, I think cycling the 10 gallon and moving him to that would be a better bet. If anything, it's worth the shot. And yes Parasite Guard will work just as well! So I think you can start dosing him with that if you feel comfortable.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Unfortunately no family has well water but I will try to start cycling the 10 gallon. Do you have any articles on how to do that because idk how to

And I will start treatment today if I catch him doing it, I'm just really nervous about medicating him if it's only stress


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sure! http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=111960 there are a few different ways to do it, I suggest getting an ammonia source like the frozen shrimp from a store; I can't eat shrimp so I don't normally have this but if you do, then it's great for this purpose! And then I suggest getting some Tetra Safe Start to cycle the tank in approx. 2 weeks. Feel free to ask questions after you read that one up there.


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## knottymare (Feb 23, 2014)

lilnaugrim said:


> Hey there, anhel asked me to post to you.
> 
> Well looks like you've found yourself a little boy veiltail baby! He's a cutie for sure. Are there any questions about his care? Babies require much more work than adults but I'd be happy to help you along with this one. I do want to note one thing though, Petco babies have just undergone a huge trauma and stress wit being shippedto the store and then spending who knows how long in those cups with poor nutrition, its very common for these fish to not survive long or not make it passed a year. I don't mean to frighten you and I'm sorry if I did, there are still plenty of babies who have grown up very well and healthy. But I just wanted to put that out there so you knew.


I have a couple questions about this... first, how can you tell this one is a boy? I still haven't figured out the whole difference between boys and girls in the babies. Second, many of these live as long as a year and then die?


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## knottymare (Feb 23, 2014)

I want to add that I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Watching the changes in your baby is a lot of fun!


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

knottymare said:


> I have a couple questions about this... first, how can you tell this one is a boy? I still haven't figured out the whole difference between boys and girls in the babies. Second, many of these live as long as a year and then die?


I will be writing up a thread on PetCo baby care and can write one along with sexing Betta's. Basically, longer fins, the body shape which females tend to be more pointed at the nose where males generally have a smoother slope from dorsal to nose although this varies. Boys tend to have larger eyes than females and then of course the only sure way to sex a Betta; he had no ovaries behind his stomach. Egg spots are not a good way to sex Bettas as males have fake egg spots most of the time and even keep them through adulthood.

It depends on the baby and how long they've spent in the store. If you were to get the same juvie straight from the breeder, you would have much better chance of keeping them alive and very well.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you I was sure to ask all questions here because lilnaugrim has been very helpful and I think anyone that stumbles upon this will find it helpful as well.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

How is his flashing today? I'm having a difficult time with this, I know I was talking about stress in relation to flashing but I'm still uncertain whether or not to tell you to medicate him. At this time of year, it is difficult for us who are coming out of winter and going into spring because of all the melting; this is showing up frequently in the forum lately since it is affecting many people's fish and companions. So while it is possible the water chemistry change is affecting him adversely, it generally will not cause symptoms but rather cause the stress to allow the fish to become infected. With that said, it won't hurt him to start dosing him, especially if it is Gill Flukes because they are so difficult to get rid of; lots of water changes and medication. Gill Flukes can live both on the fish and in the gravel IIRC from the last time I dealt with this situation.

Another note, you said he was pooping fine? Have you seen the poo at all recently? If you have and it's white/stringy then internal parasites could be the cause instead of gill flukes in which case you could start mildly and just use Epsom Salts to try to draw the parasites out of him and if it doesn't work; go to the meds from there. I'll wait for the answers to my previous questions there.

(And thank you for the kind comments! I try my best to help!)


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I started him on Parasite Guard yesterday morning, I have not seen him flash since, but then again I was in class from 3-9 so I missed most the day to monitor him. I haven't seen him flash this morning either. I don't see anything on his gills to suggest it's flukes, I really hope it's not because I've never dealt with those and I'm quite scared to have to deal with those. But yeah I started Parasite Guard, turned the filter off, and water temperature is still at 80. His poop is still the same color, he's eating fine, swimming fine, I haven't seen anything floating in his water either to suggest external parasites

I did notice his water turned green after dosing, but I noticed this when I suspected my other betta to have internal parasites, unfortunately he did not make it, he passed away within 3 days of dosing, but I'm almost certain there were other underlying issues with him.

Quick question about PG. I dosed him yesterday at 11:00 AM, do I change the water today (25%), then wait a day, and dose him again on Friday? Or do I change the water tomorrow, wait a day, then dose him on Saturday? I was confused by the instructions it says: Treatment can be used twice within 48 and a 25% water change.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yeah, the medication can turn the water colors some times so I doubt that that was the cause of the last Bettas death. As for the directions, it says wait 48 hours which is two day's so I would change it tomorrow and then dose him directly after you change the water. It doesn't say WITHIN 48 hours but WITH 48 hours between treatments which means you need to wait the full-ish 48 hours before dosing him again. And then its recommended to do a 25% water change at the time you want to redose him, you can do more though if you're worried about his growth.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

oh no my last betta had internal parasite I believe from cross contamination, but after dosing him, he died. I think it was stress related to because I had done a 100% water change, I'm not sure, his death was very peculiar.

And ok, I was worried about not being able to change his water today, because of the hormone, so I probably will do at least a 50% water change tomorrow then dose him again. I will keep you posted


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Sounds good!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

He's done well with his second dose....still no flashing...but I have noticed his slime coat is coming off in more excessive amounts. I turned the filter on today to suck up some of the debris that was in his water and saw a huge chunk of his slime coat stuck to the intake. How can I help replace his slime coat? and will it hurt him to lose it? I know the slime coat is there to protect him and he is more susceptible to illnesses if he continues to lose it that's why I want to try and help replace it, because he is still shedding it pretty badly. I don currently add anything to the water except Prime


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

That is normal for his slime coat to shed when dosing medications or salt of any sort. It's just the body's normal reaction, it won't hurt him because him shedding it means that he already has new slime coat underneath. Prime already the production and renewal of slime coat so you should be all set in that area. Just keep doing what you're doing, obviously it is helping since he's not flashing currently! I hope that he will continue to not flash and get better!! :-D


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

It only lasted 2 days, I just caught him flashing again 3 times in a row, and he's been doing some yawning...any suggestions?


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

I've decided to put him back on half and half, he wasn't like this before I transitioned him and the plants seemed to do better also. When do you think would be safe to treat him again?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

:-( you can treat him right away again if you feel the need. I think the 50/50 will definitely be worth it to try for him, I hope he gets better soon!!!!

As for yawning, that's literally just it; he's just taking air into his swim bladder to keep himself balanced properly and he can expel the bubbles in a similar way to release some air from the bladder so he doesn't float or nothing and can swim properly.


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you! I'm going to hold off a few days and monitor with the water change before dosing him. And I'm going to set aside some money for him from my savings hopefully it'll carry us into the period I can stop changing his water every day or at least until after I graduate and can get another job

But I will keep you posted as usual


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay! I hope he grows up quickly for you!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

WE HAVE BUBBLES!!!I'm certain these are from him, he's guarding it like mad and there on the opposite side of the filter this time. Two days ago it's been 14 weeks since I had him. I'm so excited!! I've only seen him flash once a couple days ago, but do you think it's safe for me to change his water every 3-4 days now?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Yayayay! He's officially sexually mature pretty much! :-D You can go twice a week no with no issues, he would have most likely stop producing the hormone now. He probably stopped a few weeks ago because of his good growth. Most of the time the keeper has to do this for a good three months before their fish are matured, it really all depends on the situation, the tank and the fish so it looks like you've got yourself a good situation minus the flashing of course! So you can certainly go twice a week or just once will be just fine! :-D

:nicefish:


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## Ghostie (Mar 26, 2014)

He's nice!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

YAYYYY!!! Thank you so much for all your help! You have been so helpful, I couldn't have done this without you!!! He says thank you as well hehehe


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you Ghostie!! He's a feisty one for sure!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

*Final Pictures*

He no longer stays still for pictures, but I was able to get the camera to focus for these two. I took these today, as I'm typing this he's rebuilding his bubble nest, I scooped some of it out, when I got his poop out this morning. Sorry my phone turns pictures sideways.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

He is absolutely beautiful!!! I'm so happy he turned out healthy though! That's always the main concern! :-D Congratulations on your beautiful fish!!!!


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## sunlight (Apr 24, 2012)

cutie !!!


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## ANHEL123 (Jul 21, 2010)

wow just checked your original post and now he grew so much and he is gorgeous!


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## GNWCO12 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you everyone! !


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