# Excess Debris.



## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hi, I was wondering if there was a "safe" way to get rid of excess debris in an aquarium? I have a 5gal and when I do water changes, there is so much...stuff gets dislodged and floats around for a good ten minutes before settling back down in the gravel. I'm afraid of taking everything out because I don't want my tank to go through another mini-cycle, but I also think that the debris might be the reason why my tank stays at a constant approx. 0.25 ppm ammonia reading (it's actually somewhere between .25 and 0), even though I have no nitrites and 5.0ppm nitrAtes.


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## Jupiter (Aug 30, 2009)

Turkey basters! Could not live without my turkey baster.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

I've been reading a lot about people using turkey basters around here, lately. It seems like it would be really tedious to suck up so much excess material with one, but I'll keep the idea in mind. Thanks.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

I use a siphon vacuum in my 5 gallon but I had to saw the intake tube in half because it was too long for the short 5 gallon. I do 50% water changes every few weeks. Siphon out the gunk and fill with fresh water.

I use the turkey baster to remove any large floating things before the water settles.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

registereduser said:


> I use a siphon vacuum in my 5 gallon but I had to saw the intake tube in half because it was too long for the short 5 gallon. I do 50% water changes every few weeks. Siphon out the gunk and fill with fresh water.
> 
> I use the turkey baster to remove any large floating things before the water settles.


I do 25% - 50% pwc weekly as well. My problem is that, even after siphoning the gunk, there's still just SO MUCH of it left. It's almost like I didn't even get any of it out. I guess I'll go out and get a turkey baster and try it when I do my water change this Wednesday.


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## registereduser (Jul 30, 2010)

Do you have live plants? Hornwort? I find them to be very messy. Nice and comfy for the fish but messy!


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

registereduser said:


> Do you have live plants? Hornwort? I find them to be very messy. Nice and comfy for the fish but messy!


I do! I have anacharis and wisteria. Well, I HAD anacharis but most of it died off for some reason. I've found that it had a huge contribution to the amount of debris in my tank.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

colorxmexravyne said:


> .....I also think that the debris might be the reason why my tank stays at a constant approx. 0.25 ppm ammonia reading (it's actually somewhere between .25 and 0), even though I have no nitrites and 5.0ppm nitrAtes.


The debris is not causing the ammonia readings, per se.

It sounds like your nitrite-eating nitrate-producing bacteria are doing their job but you ammonia-eating nitrite-producing bacteria are weak. Are you radically siphoning the mulm and debris out of your gravel? What kind of filter are you running? How long has your tank been cycled?

It seems to me that you need more area for your bacteria colony, or more filter flow to feed the bacteria.
Of course you know that 0.0ppm, 0.0ppm, and >10ppm are ideal readings for a cycled tank.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> The debris is not causing the ammonia readings, per se.
> 
> It sounds like your nitrite-eating nitrate-producing bacteria are doing their job but you ammonia-eating nitrite-producing bacteria are weak. Are you radically siphoning the mulm and debris out of your gravel? What kind of filter are you running? How long has your tank been cycled?
> 
> ...


Well, my tank was fully cycled as of mid April. In August, I moved back on campus (well, to an apartment complex close to campus) and I was instructed by a few users that the best way to transport my tank would be to drain most of the water from the tank, leaving enough to keep the substrate and biomedia wet at all times. That's exactly what I did, but when I set my tank back up, I had an ammonia reading of .25 the very next day. That said, there's also ammonia (.25) in my tap water. However, after asking around, I learned that my tank was going through a mini cycle and it was evident because I usually have a reading of 0/0/5 (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, respectively) and then i had .25/0/0. NOW, as mentioned in my first post, I have .25/0/5.

At the time of the completion of the cycle and the move, I was using an Aqua-Tech 5-15 filter. However, since it was too strong for my betta even with a baffle, I've recently switched over to an Aquaclear 20. I took the filter media from the old filter and put it in the new one, though. I ended up having to cut it to make it fit, but the pieces that I cut off are buried in the substrate. So in addition to the old filter media, there's a brand new filter sponge and biomax cubes (and carbon but I'm not sure if that's relevant), but I plan on replacing those with another sponge when my tank stabilizes again.

As for siphoning, I mostly try to get out all the excess gross that my mystery snail makes, but I do tend to focus most of my cleaning in the gravel because there's a lot of debris in there and I feel like it's starting to get a little out of hand.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

i know some time has passed, but i'm still having issues with excess debris. i just did a water change maybe ten minutes ago and in the first one you can see all the...stuff floating around. and then in the bottom one, you can see just how much of it there is settled in and on the gravel.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Flat marbles and large gravel are a great place for debris to sink into and collect. And it's difficult to vacuum. You're not making life any easier for yourself with your choice of substrate.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Flat marbles and large gravel are a great place for debris to sink into and collect. And it's difficult to vacuum. You're not making life any easier for yourself with your choice of substrate.


So I've learned, but since I didn't know that nine months ago I'm stuck with my decision. Is starting over the only option here?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Sounds easier than fighting the debris. Up to you. You won't lose your cycle as long as you keep your filter media wet. 

I'm assuming you're cycled. If not, you have nothing to lose, in my opinion.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Sounds easier than fighting the debris. Up to you. You won't lose your cycle as long as you keep your filter media wet.
> 
> I'm assuming you're cycled. If not, you have nothing to lose, in my opinion.


My tank recently went through another cycle, but re-stabilized about a week ago. Is it still safe or should I wait a little longer?


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

If both your ammonia and nitrite stay at 0.0ppm between changes, and your nitrate increases slightly, your cycle is as stable as it gets. 

If you replace your substrate you might experience a "mini-cycle." Nothing you can't keep in check with water changes. Just check every other day and change as needed.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> If both your ammonia and nitrite stay at 0.0ppm between changes, and your nitrate increases slightly, your cycle is as stable as it gets.
> 
> If you replace your substrate you might experience a "mini-cycle." Nothing you can't keep in check with water changes. Just check every other day and change as needed.


Alright and one last question, to clean the gravel that's currently in the tank, would I need to siphon out all the water, clean it in the old tank water and then refill the tank with new conditioned water & cleaned/debris-less gravel? Because I've read that 100 percent water changes were a no-no.


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## Aus (Feb 3, 2012)

^ What Hallyx said applies applies to substrate changes & 100% cleanouts. 

You'll likely get a mini cycle as the filter settles in and new bacteria take time to grow on the substrate, but just keep up water changes (you'll need to increase them for a few weeks, probably) and this'll keep it steady. 

Depending on what substrate you use, it might affect your pH too, so it's a good idea to put some in a bucket for a week, then test your pH, see how it differs from what's in your tank. 

Bettas don't like change much, and a radically different pH can stress them. You can ask the store for inert substrates, one that are neutral pH, but I'd test it anyway. I bought 20kg of 'inert' gravel that makes my water harder, and raises pH, so I balance it out with wood & IAL, it works a treat.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

A one-hundred percent water change is for un-cycled tanks. It means removing and cleaning your gravel and decor and washing the tank. It's purpose is to prevent an inadvertent cycle and the ammonia spike that can occur.

Not doing 100% changes is for cycled tanks in order to preserve the bacteria in the substrate, etc. Seeing as you're going to change substrate, you might as well wash your tank...but not the decor or plants. Keep those wet like your filter pad.

Aus is right about checking your new substrate for pH and hardness changes. A important detail I had forgotten. (I run bare-bottom tanks.)


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Thanks for the info Aus & Hallyx, but I think my last post was kind of confusing. I wasn't *really* asking if I HAD to do a 100 percent water change, or about replacing my current substrate. All I wanted to know was what the best way to go about cleaning the gravel would be. Sorry!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

colorxmexravyne said:


> Thanks for the info Aus & Hallyx, but I think my last post was kind of confusing. I wasn't *really* asking if I HAD to do a 100 percent water change, or about replacing my current substrate. All I wanted to know was what the best way to go about cleaning the gravel would be. Sorry!


I'm sorry, I'm confused. Do you intend keeping your current substrate with its associated debris problems? Are you going to replace it and are asking how to clean and prepare new gravel?

I'd like to help but I don't know your intentions.

As for the answers to your unasked questions. That information might be of value to someone else reading this thread.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

So, almost two months later, I've found the answer to my problem. The "debris" is actually thanks to my Mystery Snail. The majority of it is leftover/decomposing waste.

I ended up completely cleaning out my tank a day after my last post here and there was no debris or mulm or anything left over in my tank. It stayed clean for about two and a half/three weeks, and then the debris started building up again. Also, during that time period, I had a little algae outbreak but my snail ended up taking care of most of that, which in turn upped her waste production and well, now I'm back right where I started.

The whole thing is disgusting, really. When I use the turkey baster, I stick it all the way through the gravel until it touches the bottom of the tank, and the water it sucks up has a rather nasty brownish tint to it. The water column in the tank itself, however, is crystal clear. I knew mystery snails produced a lot of waste, but this is outrageous. I don't even feed her anything extra. I just let her graze on whatever dead/decaying plant matter there is in the tank with a supplemental spinach leaf or algae wafer every week. 

So now my question is, *would changing the substrate to something finer make cleaning this up any easier?*. I'm gradually switching this tank over to a planted tank anyway, and some of the plants I'm looking at will need something slightly better than large gravel.


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Snails are like that, I've heard. I have a Nerite snail in a couple of my tanks. Those tanks are messier but the walls are cleaner. 

I run bare-bottom tanks---no substrate---so it's easy for me to siphon the debris. I hear sand is pretty easy to keep clean because the waste and debris sit on top and are easy to siphon out. Plants grow well in sand or in gravel. 

You'll get a better answer if you ask your question in the planted tank section.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> Snails are like that, I've heard. I have a Nerite snail in a couple of my tanks. Those tanks are messier but the walls are cleaner.
> 
> I run bare-bottom tanks---no substrate---so it's easy for me to siphon the debris. I hear sand is pretty easy to keep clean because the waste and debris sit on top and are easy to siphon out. Plants grow well in sand or in gravel.
> 
> You'll get a better answer if you ask your question in the planted tank section.


Smart move on your part with the bare-bottom tank, haha. I had been looking in to getting another snail (a nerite, actually) for my upcoming NPT but I'm sort of reconsidering it now. While this whole debris thing isn't really a problem, it's rather aesthetically unappealing and it's just something I'd like to avoid in the future, you know?

In any case, thanks everyone for your help!


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## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

If you're planning a true soil-based NPT, I hear Malaysian Trumpet snails are used to aerate the soil. Consult OldFishLady's NPT articles and Aokashi's expertise.

There are other planted tank experts on the forum. See the plant section.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Hallyx said:


> If you're planning a true soil-based NPT, I hear Malaysian Trumpet snails are used to aerate the soil. Consult OldFishLady's NPT articles and Aokashi's expertise.
> 
> There are other planted tank experts on the forum. See the plant section.


I've skimmed through OFL's articles before, but I'd definitely planned on giving them a good thorough reading before I go and start buying anything specifically for that tank. I am planning to do a soil-based NPT; haven't done my research on MTS yet so I'll look into those too. Thanks again for your help ~


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

i have a cycled 5g with gravel substrate. i do have one nerite on 1 side to deal with algea and have the same dirty problem. i did do some 100wc just to get rid of most of the snail's presents in the past. id like to go bare tank but its something i have to deal with now ie the gravel. 

the most recent WC i did i reused the water from the tank to clean it. i siphoned/gravel vac it into a 1g jug and returned 80% of the water to the tank. the other 20% with detrius was tossed. i repeated the process to siphon more debris from the tank. when i removed enough of it, i drained the water needed for the actual WC. you could try this method until you get a soil based tank ready.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

nel3 said:


> i have a cycled 5g with gravel substrate. i do have one nerite on 1 side to deal with algea and have the same dirty problem. i did do some 100wc just to get rid of most of the snail's presents in the past. id like to go bare tank but its something i have to deal with now ie the gravel.
> 
> the most recent WC i did i reused the water from the tank to clean it. i siphoned/gravel vac it into a 1g jug and returned 80% of the water to the tank. the other 20% with detrius was tossed. i repeated the process to siphon more debris from the tank. when i removed enough of it, i drained the water needed for the actual WC. you could try this method until you get a soil based tank ready.


Thanks for the tips, but I think just gonna deal with it for now. There's no way I'm doing _that thorough_ of a cleaning again just to have it look exactly the same two weeks later, haha. I'm changing the substrate to something finer for funsies after Christmas to see if it helps and if not, then I'm just gonna take it with a grain of salt and mark it down as one of the downsides of having a snail. Like I said, it's not really that big of a problem, it's just gross when you sit down and think about it.


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## nel3 (May 29, 2011)

same here, i dont like it that the snail poops so much but it just comes with the package. lol i moved out of my parents house a bit over a year ago and made a goal to use less water than when i was with my parents. it didnt go so well, i got my first betta a few months before moving out lol. i dont like using all the extra water for the fish but i cant avoid skimping on WC just bc i was to use less water.


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