# Crowntail possibilities?



## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I have two boys I absolutely love the colors of, and they're gorgeous when they flare!



Is there anything specific I should know about showing these two? Are the even worth showing?


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

You cannot show them unless you bred them(unless of course you wish to show as a team with the breeder).

If you plan to show you would have to know the crown-tail standards.
Neither fish has straight clean rays so I would say "no" if you did want to show them.

Black coppers are my favorite though! Black orchids run a close second. Coppers are often mislabeled at pet stores as black orchids-the difference being the highlights in a black copper are of course copper and black orchids are blue or green.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

It would be for a small group I'm joining in RI, but I wanted to know in general what is good and bad. Sorry to be a newbie, but can you explain the difference in rays?
I love my copper so much! We're going to be breeding him this winter hopefully! :3


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Betty Splendens is always a great place to start. 
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/page.imp?articleid=753

You will want to read through every single page before you start breeding. Then you will want to join the IBC for only $20. You can find everything you need to know there pertaining to showing. 

Don't forget if you are breeding crown tails you will need fairly soft water or all your hard work will be for nothing. Hard water causes their rays (the spikes on their fins) to wrinkle up and/or curl. Double check your water supply before committing to a crown tail.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I think I have soft water made of miracles and magic. All my betta's ended up sick and stressed on my way home from Canada.... It took a week of clean water every day and salt but all of them but one cleared up. R has healed his tear within two days. I brought my water to test at work and my co-worker was like holy poop you need to make your water harder! But all the fish seem fine and happy. 

Woah! I thought IBC was going to be a lot more expensive... >.< Thats really good to know. I'll join them and my local group! I might start with the local group first since it will be easier to start with I think. 

Thank you!!! This is great info!


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

If your water is super soft you just may want to make it a bit harder by adding shells or something like that. Really soft water=really unstable fish water.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't think its that soft, I haven't had any issues with levels unless I'm adding fish. Overall I've had very good luck thus far and I really hope it continues into my breeding with my friend! 

Weird question, do you know of any sites the compare the different rays side by side? I'm a really visual person and it helps to put it right in my face ><


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Check your pm's.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Here's the original picture for my copper!


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## Ilikebutterflies (May 19, 2012)

Wow. What happened to his rays? It doesn't even look like the same fish??!


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't have a very good camera, I've been using my phone. Its hard to tell against the black in the tank as well. I'm going to try putting the light right on him and seeing his rays. Even with my eyes its hard to tell exactly they split. He's also darkening in certain places and marbling in others. He's still relatively young so we have a bit before we really know what he will look like. XD


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I also think the drive from Canada really stressed everyone out. He didn't end up sick but he was very very light colored when we got home. I thought he was the wrong fish at first until he started to darken up.


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

I think the black copper boy is lovely.
If he's an import, they rarely do as well over here in our water compaired to that of thailand.

If you're doing a 'just for fun' show, where you don't need to follow the IBC rules and standard, I would go with the black copper boy.
He'd also be my first pick breeding wise(given you could find another copper CT female)


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

We actually do have another copper female. My friend lilnaugrim has her.  She's absolutely adorable! I think their babies are going to be beautiful ^^

He is an import though.. :/ Hopefully my water won't effect him too much. Is there anything I can do to make it any better?


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

We just have to breed them as fast as we can lol.

Nah, they'll last just not to the 3-4 years that home bred betta's here can last and sometimes even more. But they should just be fine!

Here's his soon to be mate!

















And her auction picture. The only thing that concerns me is that she's a little spoonheaded but I don't think it's terrible. Mostly I think we're breeding more for color, Black Copper Butterflies, I would definitely like to continue that line at least!


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## bambijarvis (Jul 15, 2012)

Pretty girl. 

Lucillia, things like IAL and such can help, but it's not an overly drastic thing.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Or Oak Leaves, I've got a poop-ton in my yard :-D never had pesticides or insecticides as well ^_^

However, since her water is already soft, would IAL or oak really help? On the contrary, my water is hard however my sorority water is soft because of the 5 pieces of driftwood I have in there, so Oak and IAL would benefit my other tanks, correct? I know they are good in breeding as well, but we can use just oak in place of IAL as well? Pretty much does the same thing I believe.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Hmm... I'll have to do tests on my water with the leaves and such to see if it makes any difference. Along with my sculpey tests. 
I love that girl so much!!! She's so cute!!!! I can't wait for beautiful babies!


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## ashleylyn (Mar 30, 2013)

Beautiful fish! Crowntails are my favorite. 

And I have to say I'm jealous you two are friends that love bettas. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, lol. Want to extend your friendship to NJ?


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Ashleylyn I spread the bug to Lil, and then she spread it back to me tenfold! XD 
I'm sure we could spread the friendship! Visits won't be easy though XD


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

hehe, I don't even remember half of how this even happened but apparently it did XD

I went from 1 boy Betta to roughly 32 Betta's in just about a year's time....that's quite the exponential difference lol

I have some friends from Jersey, but none of them really like fish, or rather they don't know that they like fish yet haha ;-)


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## Catw0man (Jan 24, 2013)

I miss those two crowntails! I think the male's rays did color up more over time...the tips don't seem to be as lightly colored as in the seller's picture. Regardless, they are going to make some beautiful babies!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Remember that IAL, oak, driftwood, etc may lower ph but it doesn't change the amount of TDS... 

Beautiful fish btw.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Tds?


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## Catw0man (Jan 24, 2013)

lilnaugrim said:


> Tds?


Total dissolved solids, I believe....


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Yup, total dissolved solids.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Is that similar to dissolved organic compounds and stuff or am I thinking of something different? I haven't heard of TDS before.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Uh... Kinda? TDS is the today amount of dissolved solids in the water, like calcium, magnesium, etc.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, so IAL doesn't effect that then? Like if I wanted to test for any of the compounds? Are there things that do effect them?

(Sorry for hijacking the thread, I'm terribly good at doing that >.<)


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

That's alright. We're both learning. I really want what is best for the fish.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)




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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

The turquoise crown tail and the white grizzle were being such hams for the camera last night. But the copper was like, NOPE!


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)




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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Ugg he's so beautiful! I can't wait to have his babies! lol


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

He's definitely starting to marble though. Just on his fins. But its starting. I'm hoping it won't be too much by the time he's done. :< I love him with his solids.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Lucillia said:


> He's definitely starting to marble though. Just on his fins. But its starting. I'm hoping it won't be too much by the time he's done. :< I love him with his solids.


Actually I'm not sure if he's really marbling or just filling out into his true colors, like blooming so to say. Rembrandt didn't finish growing until he was well over 6-7 months old if I estimated his age correctly and he's still changing a little bit here and there, mostly size for now. But the CT could just be growing out more is all and I hope that's all since the girl already is carrying the marble gene.

Yeah that's something for everyone else here, here was one of the sisters of my black copper CT girl:









So I expect some marbling since it's already shown up in her generation, it will mostly likely continue from there. Although I hope my girl doesn't marble, as much as her sister is interesting, I do also like her solid black and copper ^_^


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## Catw0man (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't know what it is, but the rays of crowntails do seem to change as they mature. A few months ago I won a black and white butterfly ct with white on the outer half of all his rays. He was gorgeous! Then, just before the ship date, the seller sent me an updated picture of him and asked if I still wanted him....he had turned completely black! No white on his rays at all. I wish all sellers would do that....especially with the marbles! Some I've bought have been totally unrecognizable by the time I received them....I had to identify them by the process of elimination, matching up any other fish with their pictures until I knew who the "mystery" fish was.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Ahh! Yes her sister!! She's so cute too! 

I think honestly everything and everyone keeps changing even if they're 'done' growing. I can tell you I've changed quite a bit myself and I'm still growing. XD I know Ragnarok is almost a year at least and he's changed quite a lot the past few months. But no Lil the copper is getting some blueishgray spots along his rays. They're mainly iridescent.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh the blue-ish grey is part of is iridescence which also grows out as they grow up. I have proof of that with Ditto and his pictures, he started with very little irid on his fin membrane and now it stretches from peduncle to tail tip! Quite interesting indeed.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Hopefully that's it. I like marbling but I really want him to stay how he is.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Finally caught it up close what I mean by the coloring. The sploches.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh....well that's weird. That looks like the same stuff that's on Ragnarok's gills, at least from my phone is all. Are they lumpy in any sort of way? Or is it just coloration?


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

I honestly don't know. I'm really confused as to how my fish are all getting this copper color on them.


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## Lucillia (Apr 29, 2013)

Some are blue and some arr copper. That might be just his coloring though.


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