# Panting Fish



## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi, I've read through some other threads of possibilities of what a heavily-breathing fish could mean, but I was hoping to get more specific feedback for my fish, Giles, in particular. His tank got past 80 degrees last night because of his tank light. I've since turned it off and added cooler water to slowly bring the temp down.

Symptoms: Panting/heavy breathing since last night, he seems to have bouyancy issues that has been going on for a few weeks. He can move around the tank, but for the most part, he tends to drift upwards, and stay towards the top most of the day. Otherwise, he's healthy besides some fin rot. He eats well, he's active, and still greets me happily. Fins aren't clamped, but aren't particularly floofy. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb593V5O_ik
Video of his tank set up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcgkdZ3SK_o&NR=1

Male Betta, 1.5 years old (possibly 2.5 assuming he was 1yr when I bought him)

2 Gallon Tank
74-78 degrees
6 live plants (I don't know the species, sorry)
Weekly water change
Just changed his tank last night


I've had a discussion previously on the type of water I was using for my fish. Basically my tap water, I'm afraid may be contaminated after the last time I tried to use conditioned tap water for Giles and he almost died. We put him into conditioned Deer Park water, and he recovered. Ever since then, I've been afraid to use anything else but conditioned Deer Park water. I've heard it lacks necessary minerals. I have Equaline brand Epsalm Salt but I haven't ever put any in his tank. I'm afraid of changing the conditions too much. So my question is, 
What can I do to better the conditions of his water? 
If I have to use salt, is Equaline Epsalm Salt okay, and how much to put in for a 2 gallon tank?
What else could/should I use to give him proper minerals?
IS a lack of minerals the problem with Giles?

Any help is much appreciated! Thank you!


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## Punki (Apr 30, 2011)

Its okay for the temps to get past 80, mine sit at about 78-82 but sometimes hit 85 on hot days. If the panting began with introduction of the new tank id say to do a 50% water change right now with water conditioner and turn off his light, maybe the new tank has him shocked. He looks a bit skinny though, how often does he eat? If hes having issues swimming properly he could have a swim bladder problem, and since hes got fin rot its probobly a good idea to increase the water changes at least, and maybe use some aquarium salt to help get rid of it. Hopefully osmeone more experienced comes to help you soon but yeah, change half the water out and see if that helps calm his breathing. With swim bladder issues he cant swim to hide and a new tank is sometimes scary.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Thanks for the info!

I don't know if it has to do with him being scared of his new tank. When I first put him in, he has never been happier. He was doing fine all day, but the panting is still a persistent issue. I'll try changing his water again, mid-week, and see if maybe this tank just hasn't been fully cycled. Though it belonged to my friend's betta she had for a while. But I'll see if that fixes it too.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Something else is up with this fish...He doesnt swim right at all, and he looks thin and generally unwell 

I suggest doing a full, 100% water change with proper acclimation for the moment, see if he improves.

The treatment for epsom salt is 2tsp/gallon for 3 days, then 3tsp/gallon for 7 more. Each day requires a 100% water change, so a smaller QT tank is needed. The epsom might help clear up the rot, along with the frequent changes.

Epsom salt will only add magnesium sulfate to the tank, which isnt something you really need in high doses (except to treat the fish).

What do you feed him? He's thin :c 
And why dont you use tap water thats conditioned? Just asking, because usually, its fine.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Not to creep, but is this the same fish?
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThirdPotato#p/a/u/2/rIrFFr7xfFI


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

LoL Yup; All the vids of the blue betta on my channel are Giles. That video was from my days in college with him.


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## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

He looks a lot different now, but almost not in a great way :c

Still, I suggest a full water change and all that. If he's been panting only since you added cooler water, it may be from stress incurred from that- even though it was a "gradual" cool down, it may have still been too fast and stressed him out.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I wonder if this isn't old age taking its toll? Giles is an estimated 2.5 yrs old, assuming he was a year old before you got him. Betta life spans average out to be 1-3 yrs. If it WAS old age, he'd be thin no matter how well he was fed because geriatric animals have difficulty keeping weight on. 

At any rate, I agree with Pew that a smaller QT tank is needed, both for salt treatments and to keep him closer to the surface. It looked like he was having trouble staying at the top to breathe so a shallow container will help him not have to struggle up to the top.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi, still having problems with the panting... I don't know what's wrong with him. He seems happy otherwise, and is healthy in all regards. He's actually not as thin as he looks in that video. he's got a full pot-belly, and if anything may be over fed XDDD He gets 1-3 pellets a day, depending on if he's looking thin or not.

yeah he looks a lot different than he did in the original video. He had fin rot so his fins are a lot shorter since then. Could that attribute to his shallow breathing? Maybe its harder for him to get around? 

I also did shallower water. He still pants, and sticks around the top. Not -all- the time, but mostly. After his water change just now, he was hangin' around near the bottom which is a good sign, but the breathing is still an issue. Still afraid to use salt. I don't know what's the best kind and the amount. I have equaline Epsom Salt "saline laxative, magnesium sulfate, USP, soaking acid" I also have "Aquarium salt" from Petco. HOw much to use for a 1.5-2 gal tank? 

I'm just afraid to change his water conditions, you know? It seems on these forums, people say "do this to the water," "do that to the water," "now it seems like the water change has upset him" XDDD So... I don't know when to add/change things, and when to hold back. Adding salt killed my female betta, barely even a rock/grain to her tank but then she was always sick from when I first got her. The salt put her over the edge. Ever since then I have been weary of using tank salt. 

Does anyone have any good photo references of what a good weight is on a Betta? Giles has a small potbelly without him looking bloated. I've seen him bloated before, where he looks like he swallowed a tiny pingpong ball and I've seen him thin, where his belly is perfectly straight. He's now at a slight poochy belly, so I assume that's healthy isn't it? 

Please let me know! Thanks!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Can you describe this panting? Is it heavy gill movement or does he open and close this mouth a lot? Does he look like he is literally gasping for air?

Aquarium salt is 1 tsp to a gallon.

I don't have a picture but a healthy betta should have a more or less straight line along the belly and a bit of a "hill" or hump in his back taht slopes into his head. He may bulge a little after eating but he should always be going back down to a straight line within hours. A thin betta will have his sides sunken in so he looks like a 3D head on a 2D body. You can usually really tell a too-thin betta by viewing it from the top.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Thank you for the reply! Then yes, my fish is of a good weight n.n THanks for the info!

As for his panting you can see a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb593V5O_ik

The methods I've tried so far since the initial problem that hasn't helped are: lowering tank water, cooling it down (from when it was over 80), changing tanks entirely (to ensure no nitrate cycle issues. I switched to his tank that I've been using for over a year and has been cycled)

Do you think it could be from TOO many live plants? Maybe its giving his tank too much oxygen?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, looks like pretty heavy gill movement and a definite need to breathe air. Poor little guy. As for the plants, unless you have so many he can't even swim in there, I doubt they could cause that much oxygen. But I'm not a plant expert so maybe someone will post who knows more about that. To me, it looks like possible gill flukes. They're invisible to the naked eye but a severe enough infestation of them can cause the heavy breathing like you've seen. If you can, get him into a QT tank with a lowered water level and start treating him with a product like API General Cure. Hopefully that will take care of the problem. You may need to do a complete change of water in his tank and vacuum the gravel really well to get rid of possible parasites in there, possibly rinse the tank sides and any decor with warm water.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Wow that sounds pretty serious. Pardon my ignorance but I can't seem to find the info anywhere... What IS a QT/quartertine tank exactly? 

I do 100% waterchanges because of his smaller 2gal tank size, and wash his rocks/tankside/decorations with hot water. His most recent change was last night. I've used API Stress Coat on him lately for the water changes cuz he tends to get stressed out a lot these days. I could get the API General Cure and see how that works. 

This has been going on for several weeks now. He hasn't flared up in a long time though. Over a month or two. But he's stilla ctive and happy. I also have Jungle brand Parasite Clear if you think that helps?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, you can use Jungle Clear. A QT tank is a quarantine tank or a hospital tank that you use only for sick fish. It's usually smaller than the regular tank so it makes treating and daily water changes easier. If you don't have live plants, you can probably treat him in his 2 gallon. He'll feel more comfortable in his own tank. Just be sure to remove any carbon from the filter first; it filters out the medication.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Hey,

Still having problems. I've done parasite clear on him for several days and a few water changes, but to no avail. Still haven't tried salt. Can someone let me know if this is the right kind, and how much of this to put in? Currently, I've lowered him to a single gallon of water because of his panting, I didn't want him to struggle to the top. (Salt reads: Epsom salt, magnesium sulfate, USP, saline laxative, soaking acid, MgSO4 7H20 )

No filter in his tank, a heater keeps his water a little above 80. Let me know what's too hot for a Betta fish. I'm afraid of making it too hot for him, though I know the 80s are a good "healing" range.

I still use Deer Park spring water, though I'm thinking I"ll try out that "Betta Water" at the pet store to see if that fixes things without me having to add chemicals to his water. He's pretty sensative to changes, so I really don't want to put him over the edge.

Last night, he almost died. I don't know what from. I was gone for a week, my parents took care of him in the meantime, nothing out of the ordinary. When I got back, it was like he was holding on just to see me one last time. After he ate a pellet he started floating on his side, sinking to the bottom on his side, bobbing up and down, swimming funny. I thought he'd die for sure, but its like he held on again, just for me. I changed his water, and after a moment of him laying there, he got up and is back to "normal." Still panting though, not listless persay but not as active as usual.

He's an old fish, but I thought he could live longer. He's only 1.5 years since I got him at the pet store. (so assuming they're 1 when they sell him, he'd be 2.5 years) I just don't like seeing him pant. 

His panting's been going on for over a month now, he seems okay otherwise. He eats, still greets me excitedly, still swims around a bit, still jumps for his food. 

I thought perhaps the old plants may be giving off something in his water, so I removed all plants from his tank. I may go out and buy one small set, but what type to get? Please let me know if you can help in any way. Thanks!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Wow, I'm sorry to hear he's still having troubles.  At this point, I'm beginning to wonder if he has a gill deformity somehow. Oh, and while epsom salt is good, for this case, you will want to use aquarium salt so you can pick that up when you get plants. I don't really have much recommendation on plants, just be sure they aren't spiky so they catch his tail. At least one tall plant that he can rest on would be good, too. 

Oh, when you get the aquarium salt, it's 1 tsp per gallon. Let the salt dissolve first in a little bit of tank water before pouring it in.


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## ThirdPotato (Feb 10, 2010)

Thank you very much for the reply, and about the salt. I'll give that a shot if the Betta Water doesn't work out for him. I just want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong that's making him that way. I'm thinking it may be old age, because he's been panting for over a month now, and is otherwise healthy. He's just running down u.u 

But thank you again. I'll do what I can to make him happy n.n


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's possible, he could just be old. Then all you can do is make sure he's comfortable.


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