# Cambodian-based Red HMPK x Koi HMPK (Red Berry Spritzer)



## Nimble

Sire:









Dame:









These two spawned on 3 April, and the eggs hatched 5 April (Easter Sunday)
The father is my Cambodian-based Red HMPK male, Grenadine. The mother is my "Tancho" Koi HMPK Female, Sansachun.

The pair spawned a week prior, but Grenadine ate all the eggs, so I had to spawn them again. I artificially hatched the eggs, and wound up with 11 beautiful babies.

They're two weeks old now, so I feel it's safe that I can start posting a spawn log. Now, the reason you all come to read these things. Here are some pictures.

Grenadine building and gathering his nest of eggs:









First pictures of babies in the artificial hatchery:









Macro image of one of the babies under an IAL:









Macro image of one of the babies floating near the surface:









Macro image of a more developed baby looking at the camera:









Macro/magnifying glass image taken two days ago:









All the 'macro' images were taken with a $6 magnifying glass in front of my cell phone camera, so I'm pretty stoked that a little hack like that worked.

All 11 babies are alive as of this morning, and waiting patiently for a water change... which seems like all I ever do anymore.

Please watch with me as this little cocktail shakes itself up into something great~


*Red Berry Spritzer*_

-1.5 oz. Red Berry vodka 
-4 oz. Hawthorn Berry wine
-4 oz. Lemon-lime soda
-0.5 oz. Grenadine

Stirred, not shaken.
Serve chilled, or over ice.
_

Please enjoy~


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## EvaJupiterSkies

The tail on your more developed baby has me in love... oops.  Subbing, and yes, I am very happy with the pictures! Congratulations, and I can't wait to watch these wee ones grow up!


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## Nimble

They've all got tails now, as well as dorsal and anal fins. That was just one of the best photos to show it off.

I'm very glad you're interested. If all goes well, all 11 will survive and be viable. It'll be fun to pick from the best of the bunch. I'm curious to see how they all color up.


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## Fenghuang

So pretty. Excited to see how they grow and develop.


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## trilobite

Beautiful pair, that female is just so cute!
Cant wait to see how these guys turn out


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## Nimble

News from today:

Sunday was their two-week mark, and as such I'm slowly weaning them off of vinegar eels. They're getting a mixture of 100-200 micron golden pearls, and Hikari Bio-Pure frozen daphnia introduced. They all seem to be into the golden pearls, and the bigger ones seem interested in the daphnia as well. 

I'm still squirting some VE into the tank every couple of days, just to ensure that the picky ones have SOMETHING to eat, but they'll get used to it and start eating what I offer them. Or they won't, and I'll lose some of them.

That's all for now. I'll post some new pictures when I get a decent shot of them up-close.


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## LittleBettaFish

Apologies if I missed it, but are you not going to use fresh BBS? Just asking for curiosity's sake.


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## Nimble

Not this time. I only have 9 babies left. (Two were found dead this morning.) Dealing with BBS would be a waste of time and energy, and I really don't see a reason to. The ones that are left seem to be eating the golden-pearls and frozen daphnia, and I'm still feeding VE for a little longer.

I may change my mind in a week or two, it's hard to say. I just don't see a reason to with such a small spawn.


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## LittleBettaFish

I wondered if that was your reasoning. I only ever have small numbers of fry with my wilds, but I also have several tanks of them, so I suppose it does make hatching BBS a more worthwhile effort. 

There is always the danger too of overfeeding with BBS and ending up with swim bladder problems. I've only ever had issues with swim bladders when I fed BBS.


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## Nimble

There's that too. Frankly, I think I'm doing well having only lost 2 out of 11, so far. I was told to expect about 10% to die because of failure to thrive. Given my small sample size, I figured I could expect some skewed results in any direction.


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## Nimble

Three weeks old today... nothing really new to report.

Dear babies, please grow.


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## Elleth

Subbing!


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## Spark in the dark

Aw so cute! Congratulations on the babies....... how hard are they to maintain because my female Betta is starting her stripes and i want to know the difficulty of taking care of those cuties


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## hrutan

They grow on sweat and stress. Read through the stickies in the Breeding section for more details.


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## Nimble

Almost all of my free time involves water changes to some degree now. So there's one of your answers.


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## Fenghuang

What size grow-out tank are (will?) you be using, Nimble?


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## Nimble

All but one of the babies are in a 10g at the moment. I wanna say that there are 8 in there, but it's hard to keep count... Since there are so few, I'll probably keep them in a 10-gallon. Although, I do plan to set them up with a proper filter and such in a few weeks, when they're not all so tiny that they get blown about by nothing.

My biggest one is currently cupped in a 1-quart deli cup with holes poked in it with a push-pin for water circulation. This is suspended in the big 20-gallon long tank, with the adults. The baby in there is the most well developed, already showing first signs of ventrals at three-weeks old. He's got a little sinking tail of SBD, so he's on light rations until that fixes itself... he'll stay in there until he's big enough that he can't fit through the mesh separators in the 20-gallon, and probably continue growing up in that. Or get cupped and we'll see what else happens.

I have two large 35-gallon Sterilite plastic tubs that I planned to use for grow-outs... but with such a small spawn, it's kind of moot. They'll get used for my big spawn, whenever that happens. Since Grenadine passed, I have to re-think my entire breeding schedules.


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## savagebeautymnl

Subbed - curious to see if the tancho can be replicated! Sansachun's so ultimately cute. That eye of hers looks almost reptilian. Is the other one similar?

Also DEF borrowing your magnifying glass hack for my own spawn log. Thanks for the tip!


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## Nimble

Both of Sansachun's eyes are like that, with that stripe of black down the middle. It's a curious trait. She is overall a very curious little female. In addition to her Tancho coloration, she's got a lovely personality, and she's grown to a fairly decent size. 

Hopefully this spawn is more like their father than their mother in regards to their caudal shape and spread. I don't like Sansachun's tail, but that's about the only thing I dislike about her... other than her unknown genetic background. But, I suppose that's the trouble with not buying domestic.


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## Nimble

It's been a while! Wow~

Anyway. Welcome back. I'm down to 8 babies now... one of them was so runty and small, failing to thrive. He's still in the tank, but I'm already counting him out, seeing as he wasn't swimming well. He was half the size of his smaller siblings, so I'm gonna keep my eye out.

The largest baby has been cupped and is floating in the 20-gallon with holes poked in his cup with a push-pin for water circulation. He was eating too much, so had a little bit of baby SBD, but he seems to be swimming alright... still a little butt-dragging, but it'll pass as he grows. He's twice the size of any of his siblings, and already has red appearing at the base of his caudal, as well as itsy-bitsy ventral fins visible when I look at him right.

I've no idea what I'm gonna do with them when they're big enough. I'm obviously going to keep the ones with the best fins and form, but I'll have no idea how their color is going to settle. With their mother being a Koi, they'll likely marble in and out quite a bit before they settle on something. In any case, we'll have to wait and see.

Tomorrow is their 1-month birthday, and yesterday was 4-weeks. I'm rather happy with how things are turning out so far.


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## Nimble

I've decided to do the same for all the babies that I did for the largest. They're all split up amongst a few cups in the big tank. I can better monitor them this way, and it makes feedings much more simple.

The big one is still getting bigger. He's learned that food sits at the top of the water, so he eagerly gobbles up as much as he can. That's why he's the biggest. The others aren't quite so enthusiastic about eating, so I'm a little frustrated that they're all half of their larger sibling's size.

I'm really hoping that they understand how to eat soon. I may have to set up the BBS hatchery if they continue to be stubborn about growing.


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## Kisiel

Any new pictures of the kids?


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## Nimble

The babies are five weeks old today. I lost two more the other day, for some unknown reason. This leaves me with six babies, all of whom seem to be doing well.

That being said, they're growing very slowly. They ARE growing, but it's taking longer than I would like it to. Sadly, I can't really do much about this, short of stuffing food down their mouths. I probably need to get them on live foods. BBS is standard for a reason, and I'm probably not going to see quick growth without it, or some other nutrient-dense food. Maybe I could start them on beef-heart soon?

Pictures to come soon.


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## Sadist

Good luck! It seems the biggest knows how to eat.


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## Nimble

Yeah, he does indeed. Hungry little bugger, always looking at me or looking for food.


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## Nimble

6 weeks today!

I've still got all six that I had last week, and they ARE growing. I've spotted ventrals on another one of the smaller ones, so that's good to know. They're still not colored yet, save for largest, who is looking like a Cambodian right now, but with an amber-colored body since he's still see-through kinda.


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## nakito

subbing!


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## Nimble

The babies turned 7 weeks old yesterday, and not much has changed really.

I'm currently down to five, with the very largest of them under treatment for velvet or swim-bladder disorder or whatever it is that's causing him distress. I have a nipping feeling that he may have a crooked spine, and might need to be put down. I'll wait another week of treatment before I make that decision, though.

The others are starting to catch up in size, and I'm seeing ventral fins on everyone now, with one of the trio in one of the cups breaking ahead of the rest of the pack in size.

I'm keeping my eyes out for aggression in the babes, and I'm ready to separate anyone that makes themselves out to be a bully.


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## trilobite

Pictures are required! :-D


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## Nimble

Wow, it's been a while since I've posted. Very sorry for not updating as much as I should.

The little ones are 10 weeks old as of this past Sunday. I'm down to three of them. The very largest of them, who already had red fins, had to be put down, as he developed a nasty crooked spine. It was tough, but clove oil let him go easily.

As for the remaining three? None of them seem to have any color yet, save for the smallest who has tinges of red near the base of his caudal. We will see how they turn out in the next few weeks, I'm sure.


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## FinnDublynn

I haven't followed this at all, and I just read the first post.... And I'll catch up later when i get back from the boozey store to try that spritzer.....


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## Nimble

You're not going to be able to find Hawthorne Berry wine in the United States. It's typically only made in South Korea.

And, of course, you can alter the measurements to your tastes.


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## FinnDublynn

I have products here in Alaska that many people don't get... Hawthorne berry wine tho was sadly, not one of them. BUT... I'm sure I can find a decent-ish replacement... won't be the same tho.. it sounds delicious


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## nakito

Hi how did you do the artificial hatching? i have one that is a natural egg eater (not a good thing i think) but all my artificial hatching attempt failed


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## Overprotective Fish Lover

Are your last three little ones still alive? Are you seeing anything interesting? Could we have some pictures? Just read this whole thread...I haven't been following but I'm hooked now!


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## Nimble

I'll try to get some pictures, but it's not gonna be easy. I'm gonna have to buy a critter keeper so I can get good pics.

So far, all three are still alive, but I worry about the smallest, as he's growing rather slowly. I hope I don't lose him. He's the only one showing any red at all right now.

#1, The largest of them is big enough that he doesn't need to be in his cup anymore, and is in his own separated section in the big 20-gallon-long tank. He has been given the temporary moniker of Everclear, due to his clear fins that seem to give off a silver sheen now and again. He's developing dark pigment on his body, but his fins are looking nice.

#2 looks much like #1, but smaller. Nothing really special about him, but he's growing steadily.

#3, as I mentioned, is still small. Fairly light in color, with a little bit of red showing at the caudal peduncle. 

They're 11 weeks old today, and have been growing painfully slowly. This entire spawn has been a struggle from day 1, when I was fussing over 11 little babies in the artificial hatchery, up until I started cupping so that the largest would not eat his siblings, and when I had to put down the largest because of his crooked spine.

It's been a painful journey, but rewarding so far. I am glad to have this new experience, and I will be readily using the knowledge I've gained for my upcoming spawn.


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## Nimble

Baby #3 did not make it, sadly. I'd noticed soon after making my last post that he was looking a little lean. I prepared some vinegar eels for him, thinking that live food might entice him to eat. Sadly, it did not take, and when I found him yesterday morning, he was no more.

#1 and #2 are both doing well, and are progressing slowly, but steadily.


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## Sadist




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## Nimble

12 weeks old today!

This has been an ordeal, and it's still not even close to being done. Judging by their rates of growth(meaning slow), I suspect that they'll probably be about 6 months old before they reach selling size. That's okay with me, because I'm gonna baby these guys.

Nothing really has changed since my last update. I bought a mesh breeding box to keep #2 in in the large tank, since he deserved a little more room to swim around. I can already tell he appreciates it, since he's more active and more lively. Maybe this means he'll start growing more.

#1 is doing just fine, eating well and growing slowly. I am beginning to suspect that #1 is a female, because I think I am seeing the beginnings of ovaries starting to form... although I may be wrong. It might just be a constantly full tummy.

That's it for today, sorry. Thanks for keeping up with me!


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## Overprotective Fish Lover

They sound adorable. I hope they both live to adulthood. Don't wanna pressure you but...I don't suppose you could post some pics?


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## Nimble

They're both about as long as my thumbnail is wide, without any really distinguishing characteristics other than difference in size.

But, I'll see what I can do.


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## Nimble

You asked for pictures, and I'm bringing you pictures. Finally.

This is only pictures of Baby #1, since they're the larger of the two, but I think you will all be very pleased with what you see.

http://i.imgur.com/KKNS94l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p1itzcR.jpg

As far as myself and a few others can tell: Baby #1 will be a female, unless she goes through a mystery sex-change later on. I'm very pleased with how she is developing so far. 

Now, if only Baby #2 would catch up. They are still small, but showing no signs of sickness of stress. Just a slow grower.


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## Overprotective Fish Lover

Too cute!!!


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## Nimble

And, why not?

Pictures of Baby #2

http://i.imgur.com/1qvPw8U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ON5yneM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OZHmxUL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QxNQ9mj.jpg

In the second picture, you can see that this one is already starting to show caudal branching, which is something I don't think Baby #1 is doing yet... so it's possible this guy will be male?

He's still so pale in color, there's not even yellow in there. No red, no yellow... am I possibly getting a little cellophane?


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## Elleth

Too cute!


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## Sadist

Look at those tiny ventrals!


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## Zhylis

Interesting, I was not expecting BSE NR1 to pop out of that. What are the odds?!  Can't wait to see how s/he grows out.


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## Nimble

Neither was I, Zhylis. It was completely unexpected, but I am very pleased that it did happen. Of course, I am also even more disappointed that Grenadine passed, since I now know that was a carrier for NR-1.

BSE was somewhat expected, just because the female is a Koi, and Koi have equal tendency to have expressed black layer present in their background as they do non-expressed black-layer (Cambodian)


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## FishMemory

How do they look like now ?


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## Nimble

Exactly the same as they did four days ago.


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## savagebeautymnl

I'm SO feeling you on this ploddingly slow part of rearing the fries. ;p 2 months ago I'd be checking every 2 hours. Now besides water changing, I only peek during feeding times. I haven't even started my own log, and it feels tedious.

Sorry for your loss, by the way. Grenadine was a real handsome fella.


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## Nimble

Yeah, and apparently a carrier for NR-1 Yellow, since Baby #1 is coloring up as yellow.

It's gonna be a long next few months in terms of waiting for them to grow. I might just plop them in the tank with the next batch and feed them BBS along with the other fry, to get them going on growth.


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## Nimble

Sad news, everyone.

The last of the babies has succumbed to disease. If you're following my The Bar journal, then you already know that Sansachun had to be put down. I am suspecting that whatever caused Sansa's dropsy is what took the last survivors.

I heavily salted the 20-gallon tank to prevent the further spread of disease. First sign of ANYTHING funny in any of the fish, and the whole tank is getting bombed with Furan-2 and Copper-Safe. I'll remove the plants and filter media beforehand, but that's it.

I am not gonna lose anyone else.

Thank you all for those who kept up with my progress here in this Spawn Log. Sadly, I cannot recreate this spawn, so this cocktail experiment has failed. I will not give up, and I will continue to work with these wonderful fish.

End Log.


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## FinnDublynn

Ah, I'm so sorry to hear it


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## Overprotective Fish Lover

This is too bad. I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Elleth

Aw, I'm so sorry.


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## savagebeautymnl

Oh, my. Sorry to hear that. :s

Best of luck to your remaining fish! I'll be tuning in whenever you might be ready for another spawn attempt.


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## hrutan

I am sorry for your loss.


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## AukWord

Very sad and disappointing. Sorry.


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## themamaj

Incredible pictures of the fry


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## themamaj

Oh no. I am so sorry for your loss!


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## LoveMyBettas

So Sorry for your losses  I enjoyed reading your adventure.


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