# First planted tank, no idea what I'm doing.



## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

(this is kinda crossposted to the bowls, habitats and accessories board, but I thought I might get some more specific answers here)
I've recently bought a 5gal tank kit (the marineland crescent one) and I wanted to set it up for my betta with live plants. I've never kept live plants before, so I'm kinda lost even on how to get started. I'm planning on buying what I need bit by bit, obviously starting with the least perishable, but I'm not really sure on what plants and how many would be good for a 5 gal. I'm also thinking I'm either going to need to replace the light that came in the kit or supplement it, as its an LED but I don't have any idea what would be a good one.


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## bniebetta (Feb 26, 2013)

ditto. hope you dont mind if i subscribe so i can see the responses


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## Phantom Miria (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi,

I'm no professional either but I'll do my best to help you out. I've spent a considerable amount of time researching and reading up on planted tanks and am currently cultivating my first 20 gallon tank (ever) that seems to be successful with no problems so far. A few things that you need to know before getting into it is that it can get expensive quick (plants are very expensive), time consuming, a mess, and a hassle but if you love you're fish and the idea of plant life, its really worth it. 

First of all I strongly recommended reading this guide three or four times and getting a really firm grasp and understanding of it (its Oldfishlady's sticky)- http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=114575
I also recommend going further and reading the following pages where a lot of people asked similar questions. Any questions you have or terms you don't understand you should google. There are a TON of forums out there about planted fish tanks. Simple google searches will yield you tons of results about the same question.

As for the plants, this is what I did-I google'd all the plants in OFL's guide and looked at every single one of them. I wanted to find plants I personally liked (I personally hate the look of all crpyt type plants) and went on to research the different care, planting and needs of each plant accordingly (I've discovered that plants are nearly as needy as betta's -.-). What kind of plants you want and how many is pretty much up to you, just so long as you're not overstocking them. I don't think having more than one floating plant is a very good idea because Betta's need to get to the surface very frequently and they can panic/get scared easy (at least mine does) especially in a smaller 5g tank. My betta has already gotten stuck on my frogbit and I only have 3 bunches of it in my 20g.

As for the order of materials to buy, I started from the ground up; the substrate, the cap (cap refers to what goes over the substrate, mine is pool filter sand), different types of decor (caves, rocks, etc.), the sponge filter, the heater, the tubing (gang valves, anti return valves), the air pump, the plants, the water, snails and finally fish. Since you're tank is only a 5 gallon, I'm unsure if it will have size problems or even need a filter. I'm sure someone with more expertise will chime in soon enough though.

Hope that helps a bit,

~Miria


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## Fishybitty (Dec 29, 2012)

I think anubius would be fine, I don't have my lights on all the time and they are doing fine. They are considered low light.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Ive read through the sticky a few times, but I was kind of wanting to avoid a soil-based tank, part because I'm not 100% fond of the look, but mostly because it seems like its pretty finicky? It seems like a lot of people opt for a planted tank but just use gravel as a substrate and forgo the sand/soil combo. Are there any downsides to that?

Right now my shopping list looks like:
Better heater
Water testing kit
Substrate(??)
New lights(???)
Thermometer
Plants
Ghost shrimp

And then I already have my Betta, he's just stuck in a little 1.5 right now. 

Are snails really important to a planted tank, and if I have shrimp and snails in with my betta will the tank be over stocked?

I am doing research outside of this, it's just I've kinda been stranded on my phone for the weekend, but I'll be back to googling the heck out of anything and everything tomorrow.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Esahc said:


> Ive read through the sticky a few times, but I was kind of wanting to avoid a soil-based tank, part because I'm not 100% fond of the look, but mostly because it seems like its pretty finicky? It seems like a lot of people opt for a planted tank but just use gravel as a substrate and forgo the sand/soil combo. Are there any downsides to that?
> 
> Right now my shopping list looks like:
> Better heater
> ...


1. A NPT refers to a soil based tank, so if you just want a "planted" tank, then not using soil is totally fine! You'll probably have to use root tabs if you get heavy root feeders likes amazon swords, but that's not really an issue. I would recommend Eco-Complete or FloraMax as a substrate. 

2. You're gonna want lights that are rated at least 6500k for plant growth....unless you're using LEDs which I'm completely clueless about.

3. Snails are only really beneficial in a soil-based tank; they help to aerate the substrate and prevent toxic gas pockets caused by anaerobic bacteria in the soil.

4. A NPT can withstand a heavier bioload than a regular tank because of the amount of plants taking in the excess nutrients. A regular, non-planted 5 gal can usually safely support a betta and a snail so you *should* be okay with the shrimp, especially since they add very little to the bioload to begin with.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

A NPT sounds really interesting, but definitely a project to tackle when I don't have a million and one deadlines already breathing down my neck. 

So far everyone is telling me not to bother with LEDs for a planted tank, as the cheap ones don't produce the right spectrum for plants, and the ones for plants are....really not cheap. I'll remember 6500k when I go shopping for lights though, thanks!


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## InfiniteGlory (Dec 17, 2012)

I too just started my planted tank back in january and have learned lots from the great folks here and Google. I have a planted tank with three containers of the black betta sand from petsmart. No soil and all I use is Seachem Flourish which is a liquid. My plants seem to be doing just fine with the better lighting (see below), with the exception of moneywort. Can't seem to get it to recover after it's initial meltdown from going into a new environment. But the anacharis, anubias, compact sword and water wysteria are doing just fine. I even upgraded the LED's on the lid of my tank. Just follow the link for current pics of my tank and all about the LED upgrade.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=131693


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

That is pretty much _exactly_ what I was looking for! I'd seen your thread earlier, but it was before you'd posted a more in depth DIY, and I didn't think it was what I needed. I'll have to add that into my "to research" list now though. It'll be something I can try squeezing in between projects. Also need to get a good look at the stock lighting the tank came from and plan out what I'm going to be working with


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## mushumouse (Dec 29, 2012)

i'm new to this too, and still trying out different plants in my little 3 gallon, but some other resources i've been using are this thread i bookmarked a while back along similar lines, which has some recommendations for easy to care for plants scattered throughout:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=124487

and also, this website: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myPlants.php
^basically this is useful to me as someone who doesn't know anything about plants because you can look up any plant you have in mind there and it will tell you if they consider it to be low or high light, and how easy it is to grow. those are both somewhat arbitrary judgements, i guess, but it's nice to have a basic guide, and a lot of times people comment with their personal experiences growing things too and the particular problems they've had, which makes it easier to decide whether it's worth trying for me or likely to end up as a waste of money.

in my experience so far i think you probably can't go wrong with anubias and java moss, which have both proved to be unkillable so far for me even with my dinky led lights and limited winter natural light. seachem flourish is expensive and probably low on the priority list, but a couple drops really does seem to help things along too.


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## InfiniteGlory (Dec 17, 2012)

feel free to ask if you have any questions about doing a LED upgrade. Electronics are my hobby


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Okay, so it looks like this project of mine just got a little more urgent. I've been worried about Altair's fins since I got him, but everyone said he looked pretty healthy, and the tattered edges was probably tail biting....aaaand then just now I noticed him swim under the filter and get SUCTION CUPPED to it. I cut the power, he swam away, I turned it back on, since the heater's on the same power strip, and the idiot swims around the filter intake, flares at it a few times and then swims right back under. and gets suction cupped to it again. -_- 
my little genius. 
Unfortunately with this particular tank, I can't really change out the filter to use the lovely adjustable one that came with his new tank, because the old filter is wired into the tank along wit the lighting, and there's no room to stick in another one without severely limiting his room to swim. I asked my mom if she had any old stockings I could cut up to improvise a baffle on the intake (and I just want to appreciate how she doesn't even question these things anymore...) but it looks like I'll be buying everything I need to set him up in his shiny new tank sooner rather than later. 
which means I probably don't have time to wait for a gap in my schedule to work on doing Infinite's awesome diy LEDs, so that'll have to wait a while, and I'll need to find some florescent or incandescent lighting that works with the tank....

I've been doing some research on plants though, I'll probably post that up in the next hour or so if bniebetta or anyone wants to peek at it, and then start pricing out what I can afford to get done over the next week.

in the meantime, not really the right forum for this, but anyone know a quick-and-dirty way to improvise a baffle that doesn't require me going to the store at 10 at night? I've got printed cotton fabric, a (frankly quite dirty) kitchen sponge, hair ties and various types of yarn.


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## InfiniteGlory (Dec 17, 2012)

are you looking to baffle the output of the filter or input?

I placed a small piece of course filter foam on my output and it took the brunt force way down. the flow is still there but the turbulance is gone. My fish actually likes to chase his pellets in the current sometimes.

There are several threads here that use either a plastic water bottle or strawberry type food container to baffle the output of the filter. to baffle the intake swing by the dollar store and find a carwash sponge. make sure it is not treated with any chemicals especially anit bacterial. cut it up to create a filter that will lessen the suction strength. it can also be used to slow down the output side too


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

The intake. I managed to find an old knee-high that had never been worn, and cut it up and used that to cover the intake. the flow isn't actually that strong, he doesn't ever have a problem with it until he tries to wedge himself underneath the filter...I'll try and hit the dollar store anyway in the next day or so.

I put in an order for a water testing kit and a new heater, and I found this light on amazon. It's advertised at 6500k, and it looks like it'll clip on right where the one that came with the tank would clip on, so hopefully it'll be an acceptable stopgap until I can find some time to do something fancier to either supplement it or replace it. there was another one that I actually liked better because it came with blue lights for night time lighting, but the reviews said it wasn't strong enough for plants. I'm just worried because the one I ordered is so cheap even though it's advertised for planted aquariums.

As far as plants go:
I stopped by petco to check out the plants they've got there, since my lfs is ridiculously expensive (10-15 for their smallest plants, and they've got some priced up to 50! I don't begrudge them the price, but it's a bit too steep for someone starting out) but the plant tank was a huge tangled mess and all their plants in little sleeves were going brown and didn't look healthy, so I couldn't really get a feel for what anything looked like in person.
Aside from that, I've found a few I really like online:

Egeria Densia: 
Long, flowing stems with spiky leaves, supposed to be pretty easy to grow, but the only thing is the website says high light. so I don't know if the lighting I'm going to have is sufficient. If it'll work though, I'd like to use it as a background plant.

Cryptocoryne wendtii:
Everyone and their mother suggests this plant, and it's pretty. I was thinking maybe as a middle/foreground plant? The site says moderate-low light and that it's easy to grow. 

Needle Leaf Ludwigia:
If the Egeria doesn't work out, I was also looking at this for a background plant; it's got thin red stems and dark green leaves, the site says moderate lighting and that it's easy to care for. I think it'd make a nice contrast with the bright green or brown crypt (depending what variety I can find)

Willow leaf hygro:
To fill in the gaps between the Ludwigia or the Egeria, the site says that this one also needs moderate to high lighting though, so again, I'm not sure. it's supposed to be easy to care for, and its muted green/bronze leaves are quite pretty. 

Alternanthera reineckii:
Another high light, but this one I really really love. it's got green and red leaves that can get purplish on the undersides, and is also supposed to be quite easy to grow. unfortuneately I'm not sure if anyone around me carries it, and I don't want to order live plants just now, so all of this is just wishful thinking unless I can find time to get to one of the more distant aquarium stores on friday...

Petco also sells little baggies of bulbs? looks like they come with onion and a few others, anyone have any thoughts on those? Do they grow quickly? Are they fairly sturdy or am I likely to kill them with my noobness?


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Another impulse buy for me...but it's so hard to find red plants at any of my pet stores, and it was so cheap I couldn't resist.









The guy at petco didn't know what it was (apparently they don't bother learning the names of what comes in their assorted plants) but the label says red Ludwigia. 

unfortunately, since it was an impulse buy, I don't have any place to put it right now but Altair's tank, and I don't know if it needs to be quarantined. I've got a 2 gallon bucket that I once used to make a plaster mold. If I scrubbed it well with hot water, would it hurt if I let it sit in there until Friday?


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## InfiniteGlory (Dec 17, 2012)

quarantining the plant just assures that if there are any snails they won't be introduced into your tank unless you want them. If you don't mind snails then just plop the plant into your (Altair's) tank. The bucket will be fine with a good scrubbing.

Either way you should expect the plant to loose some of it's leaves if not all of them. Just give it time and everything will come back.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

okay, I went with just floating them in Altair's tank since I'm going to be movin into the larger tank anyway. Got I think all the plants I'm going to get just now...

managed to grab some Egeria, red wendtii, and water wisteria in addition to the red ludwigia, 

But when I was picking over the wendtii, I got a pleasant surprise:
two tiny plants hanging on to the roots:

























I've no idea what they are. 
the one with the teeny leaves looks like the needle-leaf ludwigia that petsmart was selling, but the other one, I have no idea. it looks kinda like the egeria, but the leaves are thicker, darker, and narrower.


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## mushumouse (Dec 29, 2012)

those looks like anarcharis and java moss to me! both really easy care plants, like to float. you can tie java moss to a piece of driftwood if you want and it'll eventually start to grow on it.

eta: oh, also about the ludwiga- i have heard that a lot of plants that grow red like that need iron to stay red? if it starts changing color in a few weeks you might have to get some kind of supplement to put in the substrate.


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## Nothingness (Oct 11, 2012)

i 2nd the java moss guess


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## Catie79 (Jan 22, 2012)

Eco-complete with root tabs, piece of cake to set up and the plants seem to love it.

For your LEDs, you're right on the money with what you've found in your research. The lights that come with the Marineland are a waste of time as far as plants are concerned. You're looking at a decent chunk of change to get something for plants that are LEDs (just dropped over $50 for a Finnex Fugeray for a 6gal and that's not even a high light fixture). 

Since you're going low light and the Marineland looks to have a clear top, there's a cheap option: Zip out to your local Home Depot/Lowes/Menards and pick up a cheap desk lamp that will take a 60w incandescent bulb. Buy a 14w CFL that is at least 5000k and is ideally 6500k. You can find 14w CFLs at 6500k cheap online if your store doesn't carry them, mine doesn't. I bought a stack of them so I always have them on hand in case I need them for my planted tanks. Nice part about this set up is that you can raise and lower the desk lamp pretty easily to keep plants growing but keep algae under control. I started with the lamp about 6 inches off the water and then adjusted as needed. In my experience, this will give you enough light for the 'low light' plants you'll see listed. Could probably manage some of the moderate light plants, too.

I've also had good luck with bacopa carolingia in my low tech tanks. I have the red ludwiga, it's been temperamental for me. Now that it's settled in I'm getting lovely, red tinged leaves but I think it likes pretty high light. It will probably shed leaves while adapting to your tank, it was a mess. Watch for rotting stems when you plant it.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

When you say incandescent you mean standard bulbs right? I should have though of that! I'll stop off at lowes on the way home and return the led light I got from my LFS. They said it would be strong enough for plants but its ridiculously dim...
I think the desk lamps are actually on sale right now... I could probably get 2.


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## Catie79 (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes, standard bulbs. Be sure to put a flourescent (CFL) in it's place, a standard old incandescent bulb won't do a thing. Look for daylight spectrum when you're looking for the replacement bulb, but check to make sure it's got the right temperature (6500K, though I've cheated and used 5000K in a pinch). They sell some really weird things as daylight (3000K? Really?). 

Careful putting two lamps on, if you add too much light you're going to get a wild algae explosion. I've met a lot of interesting types of algae by getting too light happy.  A lamp on either side would look cool, but you'd need to put some serious space between them and the plants.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Got a cheap old clipon lamp at lowes and a 2pack of daylight spectrum 6500k 13w (60 equivilant?) lights, total price came out to like $17. the lamps are only like $9 and some change right now, I might go back for another one if all goes well with my returns tomorrow.
Compare to two superdim 'grow lights' from two separate sources (one of which STILL HASN'T ARRIVED :evil: ) at $27 each, I think I'm kinda done with LEDs for a bit....
On the bright side TANK SETUP IS TOMORROW! 
I'm super excited. My LFS can't take returns until 3, and I don't want to make two trips, so I won't have the shrimp for the initial setup, but I don't think that's too big a deal, I still have a lot to do just organizing this rathole of a room and getting everything ready and planted. Might grab that watersprite I was looking at, too, depending on how well the plants I already have fill out the new tank, just to keep my notoriously rude LFS guys happy.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Finally after three trips to the fish store and an hour rinsing gravel, I'm putting the plants in. But I'm having a lot of trouble getting the plants to stay in the gravel, and the water seems very very cloudy. I'm using floramax gravel that I rinsed until the water ran clear. Any ideas?

Also, I bought a piece of driftwood and was planning on letting it soak for a few days to let the tannins soak out but it's been soaking a few hours and the water hasn't changed color at all, would it be okay to go ahead and put it in? I would boil it but I don't have anything big enough.


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## mushumouse (Dec 29, 2012)

i can't help with the gravel since i use sand, but if the plants aren't staying rooted you can tie them to a rock with cotton thread or string, or fishing line if you have it, then bury that. what i do with my anubias is to bury the roots and then basically weigh the area around it down with rocks so i don't have to tie anything because i'm very lazy.  if you don't have any rocks around, it's fine to let them float for a while too.


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## Catie79 (Jan 22, 2012)

Depends on what type of plant you have floating. Tying to rocks works great for anything with a rhizome. For stems, you can try letting them float until they have roots. I usually plant them right away and plan on replanting them a couple of times until they settle. Its frustrating but normal, you're not doing anything wrong. They'll stick soon.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Stopped off at the craft store and grabbed some rocks. Waiting for some water to boil so I can sterilize them (my mother would kill me very dead with a sandal if I used one if her good pots to boil rocks for my fish, so I'm using my kettle and am just going to pour it over.) water is still very cloudy; I was hoping that it would settle while I was gone. Driftwood water is still very clear, in a somewhat annoying switchup.

Also, can floramax be saved? That is to say, if it dries out will it then be useless as a plant substrate? I'm just curious as to why it's shipped damp.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

Almost everything's planted now, went ahead and put the driftwood and stones in. Water is still pretty Morley but Internet says it should clear in a few days. I kinda like the look in the meantime. 
Only one small problem....
Is it possible to over plant a tank? I think I overbought...








There's still almost all of the wisteria left.
I think the driftwood might be a bit too large. Any way for me to, like, split it? I'd saw it but I don't want that superstraight end...


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

can't edit the original and the image didn't post for some reason... so here:


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## Catie79 (Jan 22, 2012)

I love the jungle look, so I'm the wrong one to ask about overplanting. I say there's plenty of room for more plants, but keep in mind what it's going to look like when they've filled in. You'll want it to be something you'll enjoy looking at. Don't worry about the water, just let the filter run and it will settle down.


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## Esahc (Mar 27, 2013)

it looks a lot deeper than it is ^^; the tank's shape is some illegitimate offspring of a bowfront tank and a trapezoid, so the driftwood almost hits the back of the tank and the only place to add more plants, they'd be right up against the heater, which is too large for the tank and is precariously attached to two walls Altair is drip acclimating right now and the shrimp have been added along with some 'bacteria in a bottle' (I know, I know, but I had store credit and I couldn't resist)
looks like I did, indeed put enough hiding places for the shrimp...I have no idea where they went after I put them in! XD

of course all this means is now I'm thinking, 'wonder if i could find a 10gal in this shape...'


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