# 3 gallon tank..friends?



## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Hi!
I have had my male betta sam for about 7 months. He lives in a 3 gallon tank byhimself, and I was wondering that after he gets healthier, what kind of fish or water animals could he live with in the tank? I think he is pretty friendly...
I am willing to upgrade to maybe a 5.5 gallon tank if that would be better...
Thanks!


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

It's really hard to have anything except maybe a snail in a three-gallon. In a 5.5 you could have a small shoal (six) of some species of Nano fish. I don't recommend shrimp.

To be successful you'll need a tank planted heavily enough with silk or real plants that you have to take a second look to spot your Betta. You shouldn't be able to see from front to back or side to side.

Welcome to the Forum! :wave:


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## nympxzie (Oct 2, 2014)

I personally don't suggest getting tank mates for anything smaller than a 10 gallon.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Thanks guys! I’ll look into the shoal and if I do decide to get him any tank-mattes, I think I wll upgrade and get a 5 or ten gallon tank. 
Are ADFs good in a five gallon, or do they need a ten?

Also, yesterday i was at the petstore and they had some really nice male guppies. Do guppies do okay with bettas, or are they to brightly colored?


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## nympxzie (Oct 2, 2014)

I personally think ADF's should be in a species only tank however there are plenty of users here that would say 2 ADF's (they need friends) would work with a betta in a 10g.

Guppies make poor tank mates! they have colorful long flowy fins that a betta will go after.


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## Alyssalovesbettas (Jul 19, 2014)

On the guppies It would depend on the temperament of your betta. Personally I haven't had any problems with the betta/guppy mix but my betta is pretty docile. I wouldn't recommend adding them into anything smaller than a ten gallon with heavy foliage. How that helps!


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Thank you all for your input! 
Hmm. Guppies might work with Aam, he’s pretty friendly and calm...I have a couple opptions here.

1: Get 2 ADFs, a ten gallon and get real plants...
2:Get guppies and ton of real plants with a ten gallon....
3: Get a twenty gallon and possibly do a couple ADFs, maybe snail, guppies and put Sam in there?

I wonder of female guppies would be better because they are a little more plain....


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

nympxzie said:


> Guppies make poor tank mates! they have colorful long flowy fins that a betta will go after.


How has that myth stayed alive this long?? 
If a betta goes after a guppy with long flowing colourful fins, it's going to go after a similar fish with short dull fins. They have no special aggression towards colour and long fins.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

SplashyBetta said:


> How has that myth stayed alive this long??
> If a betta goes after a guppy with long flowing colourful fins, it's going to go after a similar fish with short dull fins. They have no special aggression towards colour and long fins.


Amen! If a Betta can't live with a male Guppy it probably can't live with anything else. And the reason has nothing to do with finnage but everything to do with Betta temperament and the high activity level of the Guppies.

You can have three ADF in a 5.5 gallon; their bioload is no more than a large Tetra. However, you need good filtration with them or any other tank mates. I use internal filters in my 5.5 gallons suitable for 20 gallons. They have spray bars so there's no problem with too much current. According to all the frog forums where I lurk three is the preferred minimum. ADF are extremely social and need species companions to be comfortable. BTW, experienced froggers _usually suggest Betta first when asked about fish tank mates for ADF_. 

I have six in my 10 gallon with a Betta and Nano fish with no issues whatsoever. The ADF are out and about constantly. I have no problem feeding because I have a "dish" where I place their Frog and Tadpole Bites and ReptoTreat Bloodworms. When I feed live or frozen I feed everyone the same.

While I believe a 10 gallon or more is better for ADF that's an opinion and not based on concrete evidence or scientific research. Unfortunately, you will find most opinions on proper tank size are just that: Opinions. The one thing I do know from experience is the more you have the better. Clayton and Esmeralda were "fine" when it was just the two of them. But when I added Minerva, Jeffery and two more they really started to shine!

The best thing I can advise is to get the largest tank you can afford and for which you have room. Keep in mind ADF are air breathers so no decor without a "roof" escape route. They are not terribly bright and might not figure out how to escape and drown. And no tank that's more than 18" from substrate to waterline.

Oh, and with ADF you don't need as heavily a planted tank. A couple of terra cotta pots (without holes) gives them nice hides and a small terra cotta saucer works great as a feeding dish.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Thanks so much, guys! I think I am going to get a ten gallon with the 3 or 4 adfs and maybe add the guppies after the adfs are settled in. Are slik plants okay for adfs?

Sam is better today, but still can’t swim properly. i am staring to think that he has a premanent crick in his back. Being a little handicaped, should he still be able to have friends, or should I get a seperate ten gallon for the guppies and frogs?


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

I have nerite snails in each of my 2.5 and 1.5 bowls with no problems.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Snails....Do they make the water dirtier?

Alos, would it be a proablem to get about 7 guppies and 3 adfs+ Sam in the 3.5 gallon for a little while, whle I work on the new tank? Sam is pretty calm and rests and sleeps a lot more, so I think it would be okay to have them in a little more tight quarters for a while, since after his illness and injury he had mellowed out a lot more.
I originally thought my tank was 2.5 gallon,s then 3, but today I found out that it is aprox. 3.5 gallons. I can post pictures of it if you want to see it...If I get the guppies and adfs and they have to stay in the 3.5 I still will get the bigger filter, the one that is above water. As ong as the current stays down for Sam, who has a harder time swimming now. Poor guy.
Thanks!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

SplashyBetta said:


> How has that myth stayed alive this long??
> 
> If a betta goes after a guppy with long flowing colourful fins, it's going to go after a similar fish with short dull fins. They have no special aggression towards colour and long fins.



Amen +1 ! Bettas know how to recognize their own!


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## SplashyBetta (Jul 28, 2014)

ShadeSlayer said:


> Alos, would it be a proablem to get about 7 guppies and 3 adfs+ Sam in the 3.5 gallon for a little while, whle I work on the new tank? Sam is pretty calm and rests and sleeps a lot more, so I think it would be okay to have them in a little more tight quarters for a while, since after his illness and injury he had mellowed out a lot more.
> I originally thought my tank was 2.5 gallon,s then 3, but today I found out that it is aprox. 3.5 gallons. I can post pictures of it if you want to see it...If I get the guppies and adfs and they have to stay in the 3.5 I still will get the bigger filter, the one that is above water. As ong as the current stays down for Sam, who has a harder time swimming now. Poor guy.
> Thanks!


No. First of all, all new tankmates need to be quarantined for a minimum of two weeks before being placed with your current fish to prevent spread of disease. Second, a 3.5g with a betta and 7 guppies and 3 frogs is going to crash FAST. There will be no where for the animals to get away from each other, resulting in stress and aggression, and even with frequent water changes there's no way to keep up with that bioload in that small of a tank.


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## Gariana (Jul 22, 2015)

ShadeSlayer said:


> Snails....Do they make the water dirtier?


Yes, they do. I have a 1,5 year old apple snail in my community tank. He's larger than a golf ball and poops like he is going for the world record... Looks lovely (purple striped shell, white leg), but makes a huge mess. If I could start over, I wouldn't pick a snail.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I would keep the smaller tank up and running until I was sure Sam was okay with tank mates. And, yes, silk plants work for the ADF. I only have live plants so I don't know how Guppies do with them.

Have fun.


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## Innerbeauty (Jul 31, 2014)

If you get live plants, you won't need to worry as much about the poop if it's heavily planted. And mystery snails poop the most, so I've read. I personally used to be totally averted to snails, but now that I have a planted tank I think they're cute as a button and they keep the algae down. 

Since you're interested in ADF, here's a thread of LittleRose's with hers in a 10 with a betta.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Thank you all so much for reading and answering my posts so fast! 
My best friend is a total fish nut and has had a suscussesful tank that was 3 gallons, stocked with 5 guppies, a betta and two adfs...He says that that was best for his fishes/frogs, but his betta was older and super mellow, and Sam is younger though...I think I might start out with the frogs, get Sam used to them in the 3.5 gallon, them when the bigger tank is ready add the guppies. 
Also, aren’t guppies suposed to live in bigger groups, around 6 or 7?
Sound good? I don’t want any fishes / frogs to have a rough start in the 3.5 gallon....
For quarentine, when I get the guppies I have a huge vase (Glass) That I can but some silk plants in and they can be in there for a while. The vase is giant, and I think I might of actually got it at a petstore...
For the frogs, I should be able to use the bg vase, right? It’s more wide the tall, not over 18’.
Thank you all so much for answering all my newbie questions. I have never had any other fish besdies Sam, so this is a start...


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I would keep the smaller tank up and running until I was sure Sam was okay with tank mates. And, yes, silk plants work for the ADF. I only have live plants so I don't know how Guppies do with them.
> 
> Have fun.


I will defiantly not get any fish untill Sam is better. uppies are pretty quick, and I don’t want him to get stressed with them untill he can handle it...
Oh, thank my dumb phone for all the odd typos...:lol:


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

SplashyBetta said:


> No. First of all, all new tankmates need to be quarantined for a minimum of two weeks before being placed with your current fish to prevent spread of disease. Second, a 3.5g with a betta and 7 guppies and 3 frogs is going to crash FAST. There will be no where for the animals to get away from each other, resulting in stress and aggression, and even with frequent water changes there's no way to keep up with that bioload in that small of a tank.


Okay. I am super new at this, and I have gotten bad advice from uniformed petstore people. Confusing. :-?
I will defiantly get the bigger tank, then. Thanks so much for telling me! i don’t want to stress Sam out and buy fish that won’t be doing well....


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

It's unfortunate that in today's world pet store employees are sometimes given and therefore give bad advice. My PetCo may be the exception as they try to convince people to give their Betta at least a 2.5 heated and filtered aquarium. The Aquatics Manager told me it's a hard sell. :-(

When you stock a tank you have to look at bioload and swimming space. I can't remember if you were thinking of a 10 or 20 long but if I were thee, I would buy a filter suitable for whatever size tank you are going to eventually get. I would run both it and the current filter in Sam's tank. After 3-6 weeks the new filter will be seeded/cycled....and ready to use.

Personally, I don't quarantine ADF as there really aren't any diseases of whic I'm aware that they can pass along to fish. However, you could quarantine the ADF in the new tank with the cycled filter. Two or three weeks later, add Sam and see how he does. If he's okay, I would then get the Guppies and quarantine them in Sam's 3.5 tank.

As Splashy said, adding too many critters at once can overload the established bacteria and cause a crash. Better to add a few at a time. 

I order all of my fish, inverts and ADF online so I sometimes add a lot of fish at one time. To counter this I use Seachem Stabiity when I add new fish as, for wont of a better word, it fertilizes the existing bacteria. Knock wood, I've never had a cycle crash....even when adding 15-30 fish to an existing, cycled tank. I also use Stabiity to cycle a new tank.

Hope this was clear. Sometimes what I mean to say I don't.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

RussellTheShuhTzu, 
I know! The peco I go to have a lto of beautiful ebttas, and they take really good care of them, but I don’t think they know much more then the basics. Luckily I;ve never seen anyone buy 2 males or any emploees taking goldfish water for the betta cups. At my Petco they actaully have dividers buy each cup so the males arn’t stressing, which is nice. I wne there the oter day though, and they said I could keep 20 guppies in my 3.5 with several frigs AND Sam.
Not. Happening. Ever!
Thank you for your advice on adding... I am glad to know that the ADFs can’t give Sam anything bad... I am going to go get two ADFs in about a week and see how it goes. If Sam likes company, I’ll get a bigger tank then a 5.5 and add some guppies. I just don’t want to stress anyone out, and you guys have been SO helpful!
I wihs everyone buying bettas would check on this site before buying... Most petstore people mean well, but they can be so dumb.
(Me buying Sam at a Petsmart)
~Petstore employee: You want to buy a betta?
~Me: Yes, a male vailtail
~E *Takes me to a rack of female dubble tails....
~Me *Facepalm*


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

On my lord the TYPOS! AUGGHHHH!
I hope you can read that.....
Stupid phone!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

ShadeSlayer said:


> On my lord the TYPOS! AUGGHHHH!
> I hope you can read that.....
> Stupid phone!



lol! I do the same thing, then I reread stuff and facepalm


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## kitkat67 (Mar 10, 2015)

ShadeSlayer said:


> Snails....Do they make the water dirtier





Gariana said:


> Yes, they do. I have a 1,5 year old apple snail in my community tank. He's larger than a golf ball and poops like he is going for the world record... Looks lovely (purple striped shell, white leg), but makes a huge mess. If I could start over, I wouldn't pick a snail.


I agree, apple snails are super messy. I have _nerite_ snails. They do make poo poos, but they do not disintegrate in the water. Nerites clean your walls, plants, and even gravel. They eat all the uneaten foods and keep you tank/bowl sparkling.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

I think I may be confused.  Do you mean you want to put two ADF in Sam's 3.5? The minimum size tank for Sam and two ADF is a 5.5. Really no tank mates suitable for a 3.5 gallon as there would be no place for them to get away from each other. Might stress Sam unbearably.

It would be much better for Sam if you'd wait for tank mates until you get at least a 5.5 and then it would be no Guppies. Guppies + ADF is only okay if you get a 10 as a bare minimum and then only four or five Guppies and two ADF.


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## Gariana (Jul 22, 2015)

kitkat67 said:


> I agree, apple snails are super messy. I have _nerite_ snails. They do make poo poos, but they do not disintegrate in the water. Nerites clean your walls, plants, and even gravel. They eat all the uneaten foods and keep you tank/bowl sparkling.


Yep, nerites are lovely. They are much smaller, look cool and actually clean unlike apples. Only problem is when you get an eggy one that likes to dot small white eggs all over the tank. They won't hatch in freshwater though.


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I think I may be confused.  Do you mean you want to put two ADF in Sam's 3.5? The minimum size tank for Sam and two ADF is a 5.5. Really no tank mates suitable for a 3.5 gallon as there would be no place for them to get away from each other. Might stress Sam unbearably.
> 
> It would be much better for Sam if you'd wait for tank mates until you get at least a 5.5 and then it would be no Guppies. Guppies + ADF is only okay if you get a 10 as a bare minimum and then only four or five Guppies and two ADF.


Oh, no! LOL. I mean to put the frogs in when I get the 5.5 galloon...lol! No, he will be staying alone in his 3.5 wile the frogs get used to the 5.5, then when I am sure Sam s well and the frogs are fine, all put them both inn the 5.5, then MAYBE think about guppies and a ten gallon...


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## ShadeSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

kitkat67 said:


> I agree, apple snails are super messy. I have _nerite_ snails. They do make poo poos, but they do not disintegrate in the water. Nerites clean your walls, plants, and even gravel. They eat all the uneaten foods and keep you tank/bowl sparkling.


Nirite snails... Sound cute!


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