# How much inbreeding is too much?



## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

I don't like inbreeding because well it can cause deformed fish and unhealthy. I know a little bit of inbreeding is normal. How much is too much? When to bring in new blood? 

Is it best to breed brother sister or mothers and sons? 

The pair I have are not related got them from totally different places. So I think my fry should be healthier because of that. But I was thinking of then breeding a brother sister from the batch together. Then take the inbred fry and breed them to new blood.

Can someone share their thoughts on the whole inbreeding thing? What works best. I want to have healthy good looking fish. Healthy is a big deal to me. Not just breed for looks only.


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## lilnaugrim (Mar 27, 2013)

I know usually after F4 they bring in new blood


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Typically you can breed up to six generations safely. You probably will not notice any difference in the health of fry until then, these fish are not as sensitive to inbreeding as other (higher) animals. Breeders actually intentionally inbreed (line breeding) to improve the traits of the offspring, but you have to be careful and only breed the best because it also "locks in" any bad traits.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

it does not matter what mother to father or brother to sister? 

I think I will keep the best male and female from my first batch. Would it be best to breed them back to a parent? or is does not matter?


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

It depends what traits you are trying to fix into the line.


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## Myates (Aug 2, 2011)

I agree with Matt.. 6 gens is usually when a breeder will bring in new blood, but some will go up to 9 depending upon their goal.

If you want a particular color or pattern, and have a good pair from a spawn then you would want to breed those two siblings together to carry on those genes/colors/pattern. If you are trying to achieve something that maybe only one parent has like color, pattern, etc.. then breeding a baby that has the most of what you want back to a parent with the qualities you want, that is the way to go.

Inbreeding won't cause the problems you see when you are responsible when doing so - just like with any animal, can inbreed to a point. With fish in general the rules of nature are a bit lax because they usually don't have that big of an opportunity to find new genes as they are pretty much stuck in whatever lake or river they reside in.

My main goal is health when breeding.. why I don't power grow the fry - pretty much let them grow a natural way. Sometimes I'll get some that grow faster than others, etc. But I don't go to the extreme of feeding 6 times a day, daily water changes, etc. I want them to have a longer life span if possible, as well as being healthy.


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## snowflake311 (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks both of you.  But this was some really good info thanks. 



Myates said:


> I agree with Matt.. 6 gens is usually when a breeder will bring in new blood, but some will go up to 9 depending upon their goal.
> 
> If you want a particular color or pattern, and have a good pair from a spawn then you would want to breed those two siblings together to carry on those genes/colors/pattern. If you are trying to achieve something that maybe only one parent has like color, pattern, etc.. then breeding a baby that has the most of what you want back to a parent with the qualities you want, that is the way to go.
> 
> ...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree with everyone; inbreeding should be safe 'til F6 but I only inbreed siblings to F4 because theoretically F4 = F0 (original parents). Whether to inbreed siblings or back crossing to parents depends on the trait you want. If one parent has a trait you want, then back cross. But if parents are "equal", inbreed siblings. Or if both parents have "certain specific trait" you want, you could breed daughter to father and son to mother then take the most that carries the desired traits and cross the two batches.


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