# Fish can't close mouth



## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

I noticed one of my purple harlequin rasboras can't close his mouth. He's still eating normally and behaving almost normally. He seems to be spending a bit more time away from the rest of the rasboras. I'm not sure if this could be the beginnings of an illness (I'm paranoid about columnaris since it wiped out most of my pygmy corydoras) or if it's an injury. I read about fish breaking their jaws which really wouldn't surprise me with this group. They get aggressive during feeding and they aren't the brightest. I've watched one lunge for a pellet and end up biting a chunk of tail off another rasbora, so it's normal for them to all look a little beat up. My sexually frustrated male apisto also likes to take his anger out on these guys. I watched him take a bite out of the side of one after the female apisto rejected him. That rasbora is doing fine and is healing well. The point is with all the fighting and such I can't tell what could be illness and what's just injury. Is the missing tail chunk a bite or is it rotting? Is that white patch from a scale getting torn off (also witnessed that a few times) or is it the start of columnaris? It doesn't help that the fish move so dang fast I can hardly get a good look at them. There's also one rasbora that's looking pale and a bit thin with a little bit of his tale gone. Once again I can't tell if he's ill or if he's getting his butt kicked during feeding time and thus hasn't eaten in forever. Any input would be appreciated!

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 20
Does it have a filter? yes
Does it have a heater? yes
What temperature is your tank? 76
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no 
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? 10 purple harlequin rasboras, 1 pair of apistos, a few pygmy corydoras, 3 nerites, MTS, maybe a shrimp or two left, tons of plants

Food:
What food brand do you use? NLS, Hikari
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets and frozen 
Freeze-dried? no
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? A pinch of pellets in the morning (either NLS or Hikari) and either more pellets in the evening or frozen food (mysis, bloodworms, daphnia, spirulina brine shrimp)

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Weekly 
What percentage of water did you change? 25%
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Sorta get a little mulm from in between the plants 
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner? Prime, fertilizer 

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water *before* the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: less than 5 
pH: 7.4ish. Probably a little lower with all the rain 
Hardness (GH): I'm lazy
Alkalinity (KH): I'm lazy

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? A few days ago 
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? He can't close his mouth and looks like there's little white dots under his chin. The other one is pale and skinny. 
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? He's off to the side a little more
Is your Betta still eating? yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No 
How long have you owned your Betta? Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? I bought the first 6 rasboras 2 months ago, another 4 one month ago. I have no idea which set he was in. They all looked healthy. 

I'll include pictures of both the one that can't close his mouth and the pale skinny one.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

^ looks like columnaris, from that pic. My Harlequin had the exact same thing and died a day later. Nobody else has shown any symptoms, knock on wood.


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

I don't want to take him out to treat him because I'm sure the stress of being alone in a small tank would kill him, but I also don't want to dose the entire tank with Kanaplex if I don't have to. With the number of snails I have it would be an insane ammonia spike if they all died.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Can't help you with that, sorry. I personally would take him out, put him in a small tank/cup, and float in the large tank.


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

I don't have an air stone so he would have a bit of trouble breathing in the long run. I have a 3 gallon QT and a spare filter I can use to oxygenate it but I really think separation could be too stressful


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Float the spare tank in the main tank with the filter in the spare?


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

The spare tank won't fit in the main tank. I have large amounts of wood and large swords and such. The filter is also far too big to fit in any container that would fit in the tank. It's really quite a problem. I could put all the rasboras in the 3 gallon but that would be very cramped. I may try feeding Kanaplex and seeing if that does anything. Given that almost all the corydoras died even with extensive treatment I'm not hopeful.


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

I did a full dose of Kanaplex, General Cure, and Furan-2. All but two betta and a Neon survived.


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

That combo didn't work for me. I had to add in salt and paraguard or MB or something and drop the temperature. I'll probably try a low dose of salt and see if that helps. 1 tsp/ 5 gallons is supposed to be safe for everything, plants included. I also have frozen bloodworms soaking in kanaplex and Guarlic Guard. Yum.


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## cakes488 (Dec 2, 2015)

ThatFishThough said:


> I did a full dose of Kanaplex, General Cure, and Furan-2. All but two betta and a Neon survived.


you used them all at the same time?


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## ThatFishThough (Jan 15, 2016)

Admittedly, yes. I was a total n00b then, so I went with it. Luckily nobody was seriously injured because of it. Now, I would have only used F-2 and K-plex.

(Sorry. Computer keyboard is being stupid and won't type full sentances without me clicking back a million times. Took about fifteen minutes to type this.)


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## sabrinah (Jan 2, 2015)

I've been feeding frozen food (I now have 10 varieties. Frozen food is addicting!) soaked in Kanaplex and it seems to be helping. It's mouth isn't open as far. There was one fish I thought for sure was a gonner when I got home because she had absolutely no color, but I quickly realized it's because she's breeding and two particular males absolutely would not leave her alone. The poor girl was struggling. When she got a second away from the males her color would start to return, but as soon as they showed back up she went white again. Guys are such jerks sometimes.


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