# Should I be worried?



## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Yesterday he wouldnt eat in the AM I did my first water change and he seemed sort of lethargic the rest of the day. He didn't eat last night either. This morning, same wouldn't eat and just hung out coming up to the surface to take a gulp of air then back down to the same spot. Tonight Still won't eat. He looked at it and just said 'Naaaah, turned away and swam around a bit. This is after several days of regular feedings....could he just be not hungry or should I be worried. Tonight before I tried to feed him he was sitting midway up in the tank with his fins all out.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Hmm. I don't have alot of expertise on this, but I may be able to offer a few ideas of what it might be? It sounds like constipation I believe. I don't know why this would occur now though, after having him for a week or two, right? I would do this without further ideas, but I believe that a de-shelled pea (like the kind of peas we eat, with only the inside mushy part being used) will help clear its system.

To assist in others helping you though, you might want to list the sats of your tank currently. Size, if theres a filter, heater, temp of current water, any chemicals added recently, type of food, etc. Theres to many (including myself) people to remember there tank stats =( lol


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Kokonoko said:


> Hmm. I don't have alot of expertise on this, but I may be able to offer a few ideas of what it might be? It sounds like constipation I believe. I don't know why this would occur now though, after having him for a week or two, right? I would do this without further ideas, but I believe that a de-shelled pea (like the kind of peas we eat, with only the inside mushy part being used) will help clear its system.
> 
> To assist in others helping you though, you might want to list the sats of your tank currently. Size, if theres a filter, heater, temp of current water, any chemicals added recently, type of food, etc. Theres to many (including myself) people to remember there tank stats =( lol


2.5 gallon tank
used prime with water change (50%) 
also used Seachem ph nuetralizer which has a de chlorinator in it as well 
UFG turned down very low so not to create a current with a carbon filter attachment. 
He does not seem to be engorged as I would think constipation would show. I could be wrong. He seemed famished when I got him and I only fed him two to three pellets of Top Fin color enhancing betta bits. Should I switch foods I was thinking about trying some frozen brine shrimp that I have tomorrow morning.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

I don't believe theres any visible signs when it comes to constipation. I hope you get a good response here soon! Sorry I couldn't help more! =(


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

yeah im hoping Oldfish lady comes on Im going to go cook a pea and peel it. He does have his fins out all nice though:-?


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

You used a ph neutrilizer??? I think using prime (thats a water dechlorinator right?) is fine by itself. He may be having a reaction to the ph neutralizer. Maybe try a 25% water change and by the way i use the same exact pellets as you and they are just fine. If you want though you can try freeze dried or frozen bloodworms or like you said frozen brine shrimp to tempt him to eat. I may be wrong about my reaction to the ph thing but if your waters ph was fine before you used it then it may very well be that. Did you test your water's ph before using it? Next time only use that if you KNOW your waters ph is too high or low (more extreme than just 7.1 or 2 and 6.9 or 8)


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

I tried the pea...no dice and I dont have a toothpick so i held it in chopsticks I dont think that works very well


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Maryrox247 said:


> You used a ph neutrilizer??? I think using prime (thats a water dechlorinator right?) is fine by itself. He may be having a reaction to the ph neutralizer. Maybe try a 25% water change and by the way i use the same exact pellets as you and they are just fine. If you want though you can try freeze dried or frozen bloodworms or like you said frozen brine shrimp to tempt him to eat. I may be wrong about my reaction to the ph thing but if your waters ph was fine before you used it then it may very well be that. Did you test your water's ph before using it? Next time only use that if you KNOW your waters ph is too high or low (more extreme than just 7.1 or 2 and 6.9 or 8)


I did test the water before hand. It was a bit low and the water that I have had in the tank had the nuetralizer in it already before I did the water change. Like I said I wonder if he just isnt hungry I food a small tooth pic and put a piece of cooked pealed pea on it and pinched in the lid so its right at the surface hope fully he takes that as the shrimp was a bust. Try again tomorrow. Water temp is 78F by the way.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

IMO, you should leave the ph alone. Fish will adapt to the ph, but when you start using chemicals to change it, it forces the fish's body to constantly adjust.


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Lion Mom said:


> IMO, you should leave the ph alone. Fish will adapt to the ph, but when you start using chemicals to change it, it forces the fish's body to constantly adjust.


this was something I had done from the word go with him and this is the longest I've had one yet. I don't really get it he seems to be doing fine just doesn't want to eat for two days I dont get it.

He is doing the mouth open and close thing with the gills going? 25% water change maybe?


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

I just don't get it. Bettas are normally little pigs. 

Hopefully, OFL will see this & may be able to help you out. 

Sorry I can't be more help!!!!


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## Maryrox247 (Aug 10, 2009)

If there was already ph neutralizer in the water then you shouldnt have added more ph neutralizer. (dont worry everyone makes mistakes with the water at some point) I would do a nice 25-50% water change and refrain from using any chemicals for a while. (except for water dechlorinator of course)


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Ok here I go doing it now. I figured taking 50% of the water would take out some of the chems?! I guess not.



P.S. 25% w/ 1 drop of prime with 1/2 gal. water. Just to update


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

This is day two with no food hoping that after tomorrow he starts eating I'll do another water change tomorrow(25%???) and hopefully he's ok


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## vaygirl (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree with what everyone else said. Stay away from any PH adjusters. Just use Prime. Your fish will adjust to your ph. 25% tomorrow sounds fine. I hope he perks up! Good luck!


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

PeiMai said:


> this was something I had done from the word go with him and this is the longest I've had one yet. I don't really get it he seems to be doing fine just doesn't want to eat for two days I dont get it.
> 
> He is doing the mouth open and close thing with the gills going? 25% water change maybe?


I still have not a clue about this, but what I've read is the reason you don't try to adjust the PH level of your water is because its nearly impossible to maintain that 'perfect' PH level. Afterall, the effects of the neutralize definently don't last to long at all, and then all the sudden you have a water source which is constantly changing its PH levels. I was pritty sure this is something to avoid as just because this can derive other illnesses?

I guess it could be compared to having the the oxygen levels in the air constantly changing. Where one moment the air was slightly rich in oxygen, the next its sudden slightly under-oxygenated. This would be very frustrating for humans to constantly adapt to.

Often cases when it comes to fishes water quality, the most pampered fish is that which has the most simple of gifts.


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

yeah and simple gifts are often the most difficult my water out of the tap is more towards 6. sumthing


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Ok Day three no eating I've added a touch of aquarium salt to his water to try and ease stress a bit 25% water changes with prime conditioner one last night and one today. I've tried frozen brine shrimp, offered him a cooked shelled pea, and now freeze dried blood worms with no results. Nothing I seem to do works. Please help!


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## Kiara123 (Aug 11, 2010)

did you use dechlorinated water


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

If its 6.6 - 7.0, I wouldn't worry. If its anything lower then that, then you might want to consult a doctor about your own health o.o You may be giving your betta to little credit, they are tough creatures and adjust only in the manner that the PH levels become thier 'normal' and anything outside of that then becomes uncomfortable. I think, and I'll do some more research on this to confirm strongly, that the addition multiple chemicals will be more stressful then anything else imaginable. 

I'll look around for other possible theories on whats going on until we can find a solution. Although, one question is, the food... when you feed him and he rejects eating, do you remove the food swiftly, or does it sometimes fall to the bottom of the tank? If it does fall tot he bottom, are you -positive- hes not eating it fromt he gravel while you're not looking? There is no right or wrong response o.o Just need to know! =)

So, so far heres the current situation that we know:
-Hasn't eaten anything in 3 days
-Has no physical signs of illness that we know of (Picture would help confirm)
-Water levels are current 'in check', with the help of addition chemicals (Which may be stressing the fish)


PS: I was just called by my bro to go play pool, I want you to know that I -will- be looking this up and helping you as much as possible though! I'll only be gone a few hours.


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Kokonoko said:


> If its 6.6 - 7.0, I wouldn't worry. If its anything lower then that, then you might want to consult a doctor about your own health o.o You may be giving your betta to little credit, they are tough creatures and adjust only in the manner that the PH levels become thier 'normal' and anything outside of that then becomes uncomfortable. I think, and I'll do some more research on this to confirm strongly, that the addition multiple chemicals will be more stressful then anything else imaginable.
> 
> I'll look around for other possible theories on whats going on until we can find a solution. Although, one question is, the food... when you feed him and he rejects eating, do you remove the food swiftly, or does it sometimes fall to the bottom of the tank? If it does fall tot he bottom, are you -positive- hes not eating it fromt he gravel while you're not looking? There is no right or wrong response o.o Just need to know! =)
> 
> ...


Cool thanks alot good luck with your pool game. I've had the lights out on his tank most of the day thought that might be less stressful for him. As for the food..I've waited up several hours to remove it...it doesn't sink so he isn't eating it. Three pieces in three pieces out. IDK man The water I added I used prime water conditioner ONLY. No Ph adjuster. SitRep is exactly the same:SNAFU..unfortunately even the blood worms didnt take. Same spot all day except to go up and take a breath then right back down to his spot.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

Just wondering - did you use the ph adjuster on your earlier bettas that you lost?


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Lion Mom said:


> Just wondering - did you use the ph adjuster on your earlier bettas that you lost?


Good question but No i did not use it. This is the first one that I used the ph adjuster on.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm back, sorry it took so long, had alot of laughs that slowed down the games lol

The position in which he sits in most of the time, is there anything unique about that area? I don't know if this would make any diffirence on allowing us to understand this better or not, but I thought I might as well get it out the way. Still opting that if you took a few good solid pictures of him, it -might- show something to the veterans that we don't see. *Shrugs*


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Ok, so without a picture to go on, I'm going to assume that you don't see any physical ailments with your betta fish. Again, as annoying as it sounds for me to repeat this over and over again, a picture may add alot more information! =)

With the following symptoms, I matched the following possibilities. Take into consideration that there are other illnesses that also have these few symptons as they are farely common warning signs, but I have eliminated some of these for now under the assumption that the betta fish physical LOOKS fine; little to no activity, no appetite.


Possible Illnesses:

*=Fungal Infection=* 
_Matched: Little to no activity & no appetite._
Look for Cottony white patches on the body and head of the betta fish. May look like splotches. If these are visible, then this may be whats effecting your fish.


*=Bacterial Infection=*
_Matched: Little to no activity & no appetite_
Look for clamped fins, lose of color and turning grey. This disease may eventually develope red patches on skin areas. This is not incredibly likely though since thise developes generally if little or no care is provided tot he betta fish (Water changes, ect.)

*=Depression=*
_Matched: Little to no activity & no appetite_
Look for lack of flaring and not building bubblenests. This often occurs for breedings when first jarring bettas away from thier established 'family'. Although may also occur when adjusting to a new tank environment. Other then feeling 'down', there is no real illness or disease to speak of, just the symptoms prevail.


*Illnesses Currently Ruled out* (May be ruled back in)
_-Velvet (Need further information: Picture)_
_-Ick (Need further information: Picture)_
_-Septicimia (Unlikely)_
_-Bacterial Infection (Unlikely due to proper care)_
_-Internal & External Parasites (Both unlikely)_
_-Dropsy (Fairly rare)_


I've left out the cures for these diseases for now so that the wrong assesment isn't given by an amature like myself. Medicating incorrect could possible worsen the condition, or stress the fish further. Although, the only likely ones that I could think of is Depression or Fungal Infection.


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Ok well thanks for getting back on this. Good to hear you had a good time I love playing pool but rarely get to. Last night before i went to bed at 1am I noticed that his light was still on from when I was trying desperately to get a picture of him to show you that he was swimming a bit more than he has been. He was hovering about mid tank and hiding behind a leaf.  A good sign I'm guessing. I also stayed up while lying in bed and watched him surface twice within only a couple minutes of each other. Another good sign?! This morning, I offered him 1 pellet and a single blood worm to see if either would work. He bit at the pellet twice and I haven't looked back to see if either one has been eaten. 
Reading your post I did notice that his coloration has like these slightly and I mean slightly greyish patches to it. Now the ONLY thing that I've changed was adding aquarium salt to his water slowly over the course of the day. I spoke with the girl at the shop where I got him and she said 'oh yeah the only thing we use in their water is aquarium salt and prime.' ....Exactly what I have in his water now. So _Maybe_ this is what was wrong...but I'm still concerned about the greyish areas. It could be some kind of illness or it could just be poor coloring...idk. But I'm going to look around and see if I can find any pictures of these disorders....and Yes I will try again to get a decent picture of him. For now I'm going to check and see if he ate either one and probably do another 25% water change.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Well its good to hear that he seems to be recovering so far! If he starts eating then this will definently be a good sign =) On the pellets (and the blood worm if its been freeze dried), you're pre-soaking these in a little cup of the tank water, right? I think you already know this but I thought I'd double check just in case =D


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Hes been only nibbling at the food but its a start Im trying to be patient(sp?)


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

PeiMai said:


> Hes been only nibbling at the food but its a start Im trying to be patient(sp?)


Well it's a start!!! 

Gosh, I just can NOT figure out why you are having so much trouble! I mean, it's obvious that you are doing EVERYTHING in your power to give a betta a good home!!! 

Hopefully, your guy will continue to improve & live a long & happy life with you!!!


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Lion Mom said:


> Well it's a start!!!
> 
> Gosh, I just can NOT figure out why you are having so much trouble! I mean, it's obvious that you are doing EVERYTHING in your power to give a betta a good home!!!
> 
> Hopefully, your guy will continue to improve & live a long & happy life with you!!!


I hope so too. The planted tank is still settling in a bit 
I can't wait for him to be healthy again


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Ok So my wife pointed out that the color is draining out of him theres less blue and more of a ....mauve?? (shes an artist what do ya want.) His fin tips are still blue what is going on also the fins on his side look like the ends are pinched together.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Mmmm, right now hes in a 2g, right? Sorry that I can't remember! =(

If he is, I'd take him out and place him in a cup or container for a moment, and then thuroughly clean his entire tank (No soap, just hot water on -everything-; the bowl, ornaments, gravel, filter, heater. Let nothing go untouched. Afterwards fill up his freshly cleaned tank with good water, condition, let it sit for a few hours and take the temp after that. If the temps where it needs to be, place him back in there.

If his coloring is draining, and turning grey, it definently might be an actually disease.... Pictures please? =D


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

ok dont know if you'll notice it but just behind his head is this greyish area. there are other parts of his body that look like this but he seems to be the happiest hes been since i got him he snaps at his food like Air Jaws I don't know I just thought he had poor coloring or something and it does seem to effected by light and time of day as for the rest of his body.


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

So he is eating well now?


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

yeah and hes started blowing bubble nests a little bit here and there


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## Lion Mom (Jun 14, 2010)

That is GREAT news!!! 

Let's hope he keeps it up!


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

yeah i gave him a freeze dried blood worm and you could actually hear the water splash a bit when he attacked it. It's a good thing these things don't get any bigger...could you imagine a 16' betta Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:shock:


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Sweeeet, I'm so glad its finely (knock on wood) been resolved! Lets hope this continues! =)


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

I hope so now about the same time I started adding the salt to his water I also added another taller plant that spreads through most of his tank. I was watching him today lounging on the leaves lol pretty funny to see a fish swim onto a leaf and just sit there staring up at you breathing air lol


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## UrsMyrick (Aug 12, 2010)

Glad your little fella is feeling better!

1 Red Veil Tail


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Big thanks to everyone(knock on wood) Was at the LFS today pickin up crickets for pete and had the water tested from the planted tank. little high on ammonia and nitrites (probably from the soil?) but I did spot a beautiful delta Cambodian female wish i could have gotten a pic I'm thinkin' about putting a couple females in the 5 gallon tank.


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## Kokonoko (Jul 28, 2010)

Cool, you'd definently want a cycled tank if you're going to put a few females in a 5g. I think most people recommend that you -atleast- get 4 females to safely establish a soroirity(Horrible spelling, I know).


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## PeiMai (Aug 7, 2010)

Yeah I'm letting it cycle I check the water once a week because I can't afford ammonia test kits and I have to pick up crickets weekly.


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