# Please help me ID our goldfish!



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

So we've had these guys since they were eggs. They live in what I believe to be a 50gal - please note that this is a pond. When the water used to be clearer, we've had all but two vanish, which we believe to be the work of our local kingfishers. The onset of winter has sent our water lilies into dormancy. algal blooms and green water have since taken over

So can anyone tell me, is this fellow some other type of goldfish or just a very fat comet? It doesn't have a fancy tail.










If it is just fat, I have no idea how it happened. My mom is feeding them sparingly every second day. We also added 4 tiny fantails. I'm thinking of selling a couple when they outgrow the pond.

Any suggestions and tips on goldfish for this goldfish noob is welcome!


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I think that it's a fat Comet. If you took away the fat, it will look like a Comet. Maybe it's eating the algae?


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

It looks fantail to me. 
If it was a comet and extremely fat, I would be concerned. I never seen a comet that rotund.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's not a fantail :/ it doesn't have the fantail tail. I haven't seen such a fat coment before either, but the two are pretty active and doesn't seem to be fazed by their apparent obesity. Oh. It's also winter, do they perhaps... store up fat? 

Oh and I don't think I mentioned. The fish above is ALIVE, lol, not dead. I just took him out for a photo.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

The best way to tell if he is a fantail is to get a picture of him while swimming. From above fantails have a very distinctive profile. 

If you really don't think he is a fantail, you might have a comet with either severe stunting (organs continued to grow), severe bloat, or just a comet with a really round belly. I'm honestly not too sure which was bred first into goldfish, the round bellies or the double tails.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> The best way to tell if he is a fantail is to get a picture of him while swimming. From above fantails have a very distinctive profile.
> 
> If you really don't think he is a fantail, you might have a comet with either severe stunting (organs continued to grow), severe bloat, or just a comet with a really round belly. I'm honestly not too sure which was bred first into goldfish, the round bellies or the double tails.


I hope they're not stunted  they've always been in a pond... Sydney weather is also pretty mild compare to other places. But then again they've been pretty much left to fend for themselves. :/

Here's one of our fantails who is about half the size of the other one. I also have two calico fantails who seem to be more klutzy and bumbling than the red ones, is that normal?


----------



## Laki (Aug 24, 2011)

That's a fantaill!! 
Is this the same fish from the above pic?


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Laki said:


> That's a fantaill!!
> Is this the same fish from the above pic?


No, that's a different fish.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

oO I just noticed that they certainly do look similar though. Need to inspect the other one better next time. Re tere such things as single tail fantails?


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

No, fantails are known for their type of tails.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

what if it was a cometxfantail mix and their fry had a fantail belly with a single tail? lolol. Im making all kinds of guesses here


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't think they can breed...


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

LebronTheBetta said:


> I don't think they can breed...


All breeds of goldfish can breed with each other. Goldfish are egg-scatters, so even though they may look different the males can still scatter their sperm on the females eggs. But a male common might beat up a female fancy pretty badly. Goldfish get rough during spawning. 

Two comets in a 50 gallon pond would probably be stunted. In a pond that small regular water changes should be done. Without those, there is probably some stunting due to an excess of hormones and nitrate. 

It appears there can be single-tail fancy goldfish. I asked my goldfish breeder friends and they told me about a very rare breed from Japan called Sabao (or sometimes tamasaba). They basically appear to be single-tail ryukin goldfish.


----------



## LebronTheBetta (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh, okay. Thanks for telling me. Poor female Goldfish...


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

If Sabao is a breed, I doubt that what this is.. If it happens as a fantail mutation, then maybe.
I don't know, I think it's a comet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

My mom said she changed some of the water every two weeks. but the fish is largely unfed. just did a real measurement of the tank it's a 100cmx80cmx40cm. which worked out to be roughly 75 gallons. minus a few gallons for plants gravel and what not, I'd say it's maybe around 65-70g @[email protected]

for now I'm going to call it a single tail fantail. My grandma's tank is about a 200+ gallon giant pot with 6 fish in it about twice the size of our largest one. I'll take a closer look at them the next time I visit since ours are her fish's offsprings.


----------



## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

Maybe it's a strange fantail/comet hybrid....or a mutated fantail...


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

mutated oO
I went to my grandma's house today and got a picture of mom/dad....


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

They look like comets with some sort of genetic problem. Well the first one does, the second one just looks small.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Hmmm ur right about the second one lookin small :/ they should be around 3 years old and I just read that they should be anle to reach 4 inches in 1 year, so this one probably should be tripe its current size by now. My grandma loves her goldfish, The top fellow might be the food hogger. When I showed my grandma that photo she was like " oh my goodness, why's she so fat?". lol


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Unless the first fish also has a double-tail, I'm thinking some kind of deformed comet. Like I said, I don't know if the double-tail mutation came first or the rounded body mutation came first. It could be that you have a comet with one of those mutations. The second one does looks small. A comet that old should be around 10 inches long. 

I don't think you can actually put a breed name on any of them aside from the comet. It's really hard to tell breeds from generic pet store goldfish. They'll sell commons as comets and comets as shubunkins (in a very similar manner as pet store bettas seem to be sold under whatever name the store decides; I recently bought a marble HM giant labled as a HMPK).


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

oO half moon giant, congrats on the find! I think I' stick with the mutated golsfish label then, lol.


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I think that's your best bet: chubby goldfish! The word "chubby" always seems to precede the word "goldfish" in my house! :lol:


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

thekoimaiden said:


> I think that's your best bet: chubby goldfish! The word "chubby" always seems to precede the word "goldfish" in my house! :lol:


Haha, that reminds me of this video on youtube where a lady has a goldfish called chubby, with a chronic swim bladder problem. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEwx5ASbyvM

Despite his obvious predicament, it's quite funny.

Another question is, one of my fantails seems to have injured it's head. there's a chunk of scales that has been scraped away and I can see his/her brains through a layer of transparent skin :/ should I qt with salt?


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

Actually a friend of mine commented on that video! She got the diagnosis right. Floaty as a result of bad quality food. That happened to my first ryukin named "Chubby" and it happened to my current ryukin until I figured out what was wrong and corrected it. 

Uhhh. I don't think I would add salt as the scales act as a protective barrier, but if you have a spare cycled 10 gal it might not be a bad idea to move the fish. Did you see the fish injure him/herself? What I would be most worried about is another fish picking on the injured fish. And at the risk of sounding morbid, I'd be interested in seeing a picture if you can get one.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I didn't see him scrape herself, but it seems like a pretty bad scrape. I dont have a spare 10 gal unfortunately. but I did put it in a colander like container of it's own in the pond, just incase it is being picked on. this one doesn't seem to have acclimated as well as the rest from the LFS. Even at the store, it seem to be clumsier than the other fantails. but my mom like the patterning so we bought it. I thought at first it was fungus/ bacteria. but the likelihoods of that occurring in 40F-50F.... I don't know. It looked like scales to me upon closer inspection. I'll take a photo tomorrow.


----------



## Olympia (Aug 25, 2011)

Isn't that too cold for fantails?


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm not sure. But our family friend's 5 year old fantails are doing great in their ponds, and they're huggeee


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm glad that you have the fish separated. That was the next thing I was going to suggest if you didn't have a spare tank. At least that way no other fish can pick on the sick fish. And the others will if they get a chance. I once saw a ryukin take a chunk off of my sick calico fantail's fins. :shock: I kinda freaked when I saw that. 

That is a bit on the cold side for fancy goldfish. Most goldfish keepers recommend no lower than 60F for fancies because they are much more sensitive than the commons. Some of the more primitive fancy goldfish like plain old fantails might be able to survive lower than that, but I wouldn't want to risk it. Lower temps mean slower immune system. But are you sure the water is that cold? The east coast has been having 80F+ temps for the past month. If it's an outdoor pond, it's not likely to be that cold. 

If the fish seemed clumsier at the store, then there could be some other problems with it you can't see. Buying a fish that seems "off" is never good on the wallet as most likely that fish is sick. I'm really interested to see this picture.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I believe the goldfish are in Australia where it is winter. We've just had a few very cold mornings so I could imagine the water would be pretty cold.

I used to have a fancy goldfish in with my shubunkin downstairs in our non-heated, non-insulated rumpus and the water in that tank would get down below 10 degrees celsius some mornings. Don't know if it was coincidence or not but one morning in winter I came down and my fancy goldfish looked very distressed and I euthanised it the next day. 

Also if the friend's pond is bigger than yours it may not be getting as cold as your pond. Or their goldfish could just be hardier. How long has the fish been in the pond? It is usually a good idea to introduce fish to pond life during milder weather as even for goldies it can get pretty nippy, particularly if they are used to living in an aquarium.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Yup! I'm in Sydney at the moment. Too cold to get out of bed  during the day temperatures are somewhat ok. ie wont freeze my hands off if i stuck it in there for a couple of minutes. I'll take that photo after I pull myself out of bed.

My Family friends with the fantails said they've have them for 5 years( in the pond, butI' ask for more details). I think they have the gold fish as a part of an irrigation system with their home grown vegetables, it's winter so they weren't growing much when I went over this time. it's pretty cool. Using fish water to water plants. I'm pretty sure it's much bigger, not sure about the depth.

I think I need to buy a thermometer next time I goto the LPS, it's probably the temperature drop from night to day that is affecting the newcomers


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I didn't realize you were in the southern hemisphere. That does change things. Introducing goldfish or koi in the off season is dangerous. The temperature change is too much. Going from tank water which ranges in the 70's to pond water in the 50's can cause them to go into shock. This is going to add to the stress of being put in a new environment. 

Certainly get a thermometer for the pond. Water is usually a little warmer than the air. Still really interested to see the picture of the injured goldfish.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I guess we'll let this round of goldfish febd for themselves. The red ones are doing great. the two patterned ones...not so much.

Pictures as promised!

























in person it looks like the scrape began at the black spot between the eyes and up to where the skin is gathered


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

I honestly don't know what caused that. Could its head have gotten stuck in the filter intake? My first thought was that it looked like something had been dropped on the fish.


----------



## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

:O that is possible. I poured in some left over gravel cleaned from our recent water change a few days ago. I thought I had shooed all the fish to the other end, but the black and white spotty fantails are not very visible. So I merely assummed that since the reds were there that these two would be with them. D: I feel so bad for dropping gravel on the poor thing! should it I
it just be alone time for her? I have a ten gal, but not a filter yet.... I doubt goldfish will be ok without a filter :/


----------



## thekoimaiden (Oct 19, 2011)

You said that that particular fish was a little more clumsy. I'm sorry, but that sounds very plausible. 

As for what to do with the fish, we're caught between a rock and a hard place. You could move the fish to warmer water where its immune system would be able to work faster and fight off any oncoming infection, but in that tank it wouldn't have the vital filtration system; you would have to do 100% daily water changes. Or you could leave the fish in a cycled tank where it could be subjected to rapid temperature changes that can happen in ponds. It's a tough call, so I'll leave the final decision up to you.


----------

