# I have NEVER been more disgusted....



## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

AquaZoo Systems

Not just for bettas but for this discus, african cichlids, mollies, ect that are shoved in these tanks. 2" sections??? Really???


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

Hmm, looks like that is a setup for vendors/stores? It also looks like the sections are adjustable. (Withholding judgment because I don't know enough about it.)


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

It seems like it may be ok if you adjust the dividers to give each fish adequate room. HOWEVER, their claim that you can keep 18 bettas in less than a half gallon is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!! I realize that this is for retail, but I'd be happy to see retailers give each fish half a gallon of water, not a 2" sliver of water barely large enough for them to turn around 

Plus, all the bettas are in the same water - disease would undoubtedly spread like wildfire. I had a store nearby that used a divided tank like this for a while, and all the bettas would have the same disease. Eventually they got a different system (actually the display that was posted on here a while ago), presumably due to excessive stock losses.

Bottom line: people are unconscionable idiots.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

I saw this awhile back and thought it was really bad. If you look at their website, every other phrase is "DISPLAY your fish". That's all their interested in...displaying, not keeping them healthy or in comfortable tanks suited to the health of the fish. For this company, it appears they are more interested in fish as decoration. Nothing more. I wrote to the company and told them their product was a terrible idea. If enough people do it they may wise up. Dime to a dollar they won't sell many of these. At least to true aquarists.


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## BettaStarter24 (Mar 24, 2014)

The sections seem to be adjustable, if you were to only divide it say three ways the size would be ok. The issue I have with it is the clear dividers, the fish can easily see each other and it'd be interesting to cycle as you don't put gravel in it


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Even for displaying... What happens when all the fish are at the back and the wrong way because they can't sit sideways? And the clear dividers they say are to display their fins.... Ugh.

Gravel has nothing to do with cycling, BettaStarter24. It's all in the filter. A lot of people run barebottom tanks.


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## Zuzu (Jun 24, 2014)

Kim said:


> HOWEVER, their claim that you can keep 18 bettas in less than a half gallon is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!! I realize that this is for retail, but I'd be happy to see retailers give each fish half a gallon of water, not a 2" sliver of water barely large enough for them to turn around


From the features page:
Each compartment is 8 inches tall and 7 inches deep. The compartment widths can be varied by either 2-inch or 3-inch increments depending on your model. 
A 36-inch model holds 13 gallons of water in total; 4 gallons are in the wet-dry filter system. 
Each 2-inch compartment holds almost 1/2 gallon of water. 
Each 3-inch compartment holds 2/3 gallon of water.


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## myexplodingcat (Apr 9, 2014)

I would actually like to see these in pet stores for displaying bettas. I think it's way better than what they've got. .5 gallons is extremely generous by pet store standards for bettas.

I just don't see why they didn't make one with two shallower divided shelves? That would look better...

They certainly didn't mention that these fish that are supposed to be "looking their best" as they flare to "impress" other males will soon be dull and grey from stress, or have nibbled-down fins. It needs a water-safe white or cream paint on the dividers. Then it would be just fine.

I just hope they're not selling these to inexperienced keepers as a permanent home. That would be really sad. 

Edit: Discus? Seriously? If you're selling discus, you need a 55g tank at least like my LFS has for their salties and goldies and other bigger fish. (Yes, I mean separate 55g tanks. Duh. That was unclear-sounding.)


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

> Bettas look their best as they impress other males with their spectacular fins and size.


^ from the website


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## Pippin (Apr 11, 2014)

I actually could see this as being useful, if you wanted to take pictures of your males and have them stay still. Or if you were a breeder with limited space, or were keeping some male baby bettas, or transporting bettas. But only if you did tons of water changes, and kept less male bettas in it then recommended.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Zuzu said:


> From the features page:
> Each compartment is 8 inches tall and 7 inches deep. The compartment widths can be varied by either 2-inch or 3-inch increments depending on your model.
> A 36-inch model holds 13 gallons of water in total; 4 gallons are in the wet-dry filter system.
> Each 2-inch compartment holds almost 1/2 gallon of water.
> Each 3-inch compartment holds 2/3 gallon of water.


Ah, ok now I understand why my visual estimation of size wasn't matching with the size of the tank. On the website it says:
*The 36" AquaZoo optimally displays 18 aggresive Bettas in a half gallon*​ *low-maintenance, self-contained system that is fully filtered*​​​​Taken literately, this would mean that the entire "self-contained system" is a half gallon. This made no sense to me whatsoever, as it seems quite impossible. So, it seems that these people also lack the grammatical skills to write in an unambiguous fashion :-?​​​


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

myexplodingcat said:


> I would actually like to see these in pet stores for displaying bettas. I think it's way better than what they've got. .5 gallons is extremely generous by pet store standards for bettas.
> 
> 
> The problem with petstores using them though is they just continue the mentality that bettas can live in small bowls and such.They aren't doing their customers or the bettas a favour. And knowing petstores, most will cram as many separators into those things as they can to increase selling stock.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

Its certainly not worse than the current display systems in most stores ie the teeny weeny cup. Many fish stores around here went with the Elive system for betta display but they are proving to be a bit of a nightmare for the fish keepers and some have taken them out already.


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## MistersMom (Aug 9, 2011)

I would buy those if i owned a fish store. actually id probably just hire those people from tanked. i wouldnt want to pay hundreds of dollars for a small tank like that. i mean its not small but divided its is.


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## Flint (Oct 22, 2013)

Tanked actually owns my LFS. Not a goof LFS and they have such bad info in their show half the time. :roll:


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## Polkadot (Feb 10, 2013)

'Introducing the Aqua zoo fish Penitentiary'

WOW that says it all.

I realise they are aiming them at retail stores,but that is just too small and too close a space.


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## SeaHorse (Dec 27, 2010)

I have to say that I do NOT find this disgusting at all. This is actually how we WANT to see the Betta displayed at the stores. I HATE seeing them in tiny cups and only buy from stores that have a system providing filtered, heated, clean water. This is a RETAIL or DISPLAY item for people with stores or going to events like Aquatic Society/Club events. You must put your fish on display for the day... you can't bring your 125 gallon Discus tank or SW system...but you have fish to show (for what ever reason)... you move the dividers to suit how ever many fish you have for the day. Brilliant. 
Please keep this in perspective! Sure someone, somewhere, will buy this to house more fish than they should but we can't stop them. I would MUCH rather see this in someone's home than a 1/2 gallon VASE with no fresh water for a week.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

SeaHorse said:


> I have to say that I do NOT find this disgusting at all. This is actually how we WANT to see the Betta displayed at the stores. I HATE seeing them in tiny cups and only buy from stores that have a system providing filtered, heated, clean water. This is a RETAIL or DISPLAY item for people with stores or going to events like Aquatic Society/Club events. You must put your fish on display for the day... you can't bring your 125 gallon Discus tank or SW system...but you have fish to show (for what ever reason)... you move the dividers to suit how ever many fish you have for the day. Brilliant.
> Please keep this in perspective! Sure someone, somewhere, will buy this to house more fish than they should but we can't stop them. I would MUCH rather see this in someone's home than a 1/2 gallon VASE with no fresh water for a week.


I agree that having a heated, filtered display is much better than the current cups, especially since this is meant to be a temporary home. 

However, I have found that such systems are a disaster in practice. Most pet stores don't buy their bettas from the most reputable dealers, and this fact combined with the stress of actually shipping the bettas to the store means that pet store bettas have a high rate of disease before they are even put on display. Keeping them all in a divided tank just spreads disease like wildfire - I've seen this wherever divided displays are attempted. Plus, these systems usually leave a small opening on the bottom of the dividers to circulate water and remove waste; this sounds great on paper, but in practice it just allows fins to end up under the divider and get nipped by the neighboring fish.

Now, if I were to run a petstore, I would have a different sort of system. The bettas would all be in 2.5 gallon tanks that would be placed on a heated rack (reptile heating tape hooked up to a thermostat), that way they'd all get heat. Then, I'd run drip lines running into and out of every tank - basically each tank would be receiving a continuous supply of fresh water (I'd do the math to make the drip rate perfect such that ammonia would never build up in the tanks). This way every betta would have heat and clean water, and the only maintenance would be to remove feces from the bottom of the tanks. This system would also keep all tanks separate, thus preventing the spread of disease.


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## mpooyan83 (Apr 12, 2014)

I actually really like the product. I wouldnt do 18 Bettas in one... I'd keep the sections much bigger. maybe 4 sections or something like that. But it's a nice system over all. It's just a matter of how it is used. with 4 Bettas in there you get 2 gallons + per section. I just think 450$ is frikkin ridiculous!


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

I think this is a perfectly fine system if you took out half of the dividers and gave each fish a gallon. Clear dividers are actually absolutely fine- in most cases it takes about two weeks for the fish to get used to it, and then live a perfectly long and happy life. 

My only issue is that using this runs a MASSIVE risk for disease, which would make it unacceptable for me unless all the fish were from the same spawn or something of the like.


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## Litzi1964 (Jun 1, 2014)

On their website they refer to it as a "fish penitentiary" which I think is accurate.

I am actually creating a divided 20 long for 6 bettas. Their compartments are 5 inches wide and have a volume of 3.33 gallons. Each section has its own filter intake and the outflow goes horizontally across the top. The filtration is a 30 gallon capacity external canister. At 12 or so fish-inches in 20 gallons with 30 gallons filtration there shouldn't be problems with disease if you follow good tank maintenance. Plus, you get more consistent temperature and water quality. If fish are quarantined first, I don't know why 6 bettas with a common 20 gallon water supply would pose any more disease risk than 6 guppies, platies, tetras,etc.

Re them displaying to each other, as they become socialized and accustomed to one another this stops. (See "two psychotherapists walk into a fish store...) In fact I have some male bettas that get mopey if you move their neighbors out of sight, and one of them becomes markedly depressed.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Litzi1964 said:


> On their website they refer to it as a "fish penitentiary" which I think is accurate.
> 
> I am actually creating a divided 20 long for 6 bettas. Their compartments are 5 inches wide and have a volume of 3.33 gallons. Each section has its own filter intake and the outflow goes horizontally across the top. The filtration is a 30 gallon capacity external canister. At 12 or so fish-inches in 20 gallons with 30 gallons filtration there shouldn't be problems with disease if you follow good tank maintenance. Plus, you get more consistent temperature and water quality. If fish are quarantined first, I don't know why 6 bettas with a common 20 gallon water supply would pose any more disease risk than 6 guppies, platies, tetras,etc.
> 
> Re them displaying to each other, as they become socialized and accustomed to one another this stops. (See "two psychotherapists walk into a fish store...) In fact I have some male bettas that get mopey if you move their neighbors out of sight, and one of them becomes markedly depressed.


The issue is that this system is designed for retailers and they will not quarantine, hence the concern over disease. I've seen a few pet stores try divided tanks and it always ends the same - massive disease outbreak and the deaths of most, if not all, of the fish.

I've had the same situation with bettas getting depressed if they don't have neighbors though. They are all very individual, but I've found that most of my males like to be able to see another fish at least some of the time. I imagine that it would be very boring for an intelligent fish to live their entire life without seeing another fish.


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## Litzi1964 (Jun 1, 2014)

I find it appalling that they don't quarantine. It should be a legal requirement.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Honestly, they care so little for the lives of the fish that they don't even clean the cups. Looked at from their (heartless) perspective, quarantining would just mean more time that they have to care for the bettas and less profit


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## charliegill110 (May 19, 2014)

its not perfect but i think its a step in the right direction to getting bettas out of the cups. but i've noticed a couple people saying pet stores have tried this before and it always ends in disease outbreak - how does a pet store keepings bettas in a divided tank differ from keeping all their other fish in a divided tank? i've seen pet stores doing that with their normal fish stock


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## slimestone (Aug 17, 2014)

Those compartments are so thin! That looks terrible.

I understand that this is a convenient way for pet stores to display their fish, but 1.9L just isn't large enough, and the shape of the compartments seems very constricting. This is like puppies and kittens being kept in glass boxes in pet stores - yes, it is only temporary, and they are meant for display, but are they good? No. They cause behavioural problems. And even if small container sizes don't cause behavioural problems in bettas, it only supports the idea that these pets (and dogs, and cats) don't require a certain level of care and respect from their owners/handlers.

Therefore, I don't support this system, even if used in pet stores, EVEN if it is an improvement - it's still not good enough from a welfare perspective.


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## aselvarial (Feb 21, 2014)

I honestly think, for a petstore, it can't be any worse than the unfiltered, unheated, uncared for cups. And many fish get pushed to the back, where they languish unnoticed until they die. 
It's not perfect. But, it is a step in the right direction. A very very expensive step.
Cats and dogs being sold at petstores (the stores that still sell them) are kept in areas far smaller than what is expected in real life. As long as the pet stores STRESS that this is TEMPORARY, like the cups, it would be ok. And I don't think it holds any higher risk of disease spread than the regular tropical fish that all get dumped into a common tank. I presume they don't quarantine goldfish, angelfish, or neons anymore than they would bettas.


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## sparrow317 (Jun 16, 2014)

aselvarial said:


> I honestly think, for a petstore, it can't be any worse than the unfiltered, unheated, uncared for cups. And many fish get pushed to the back, where they languish unnoticed until they die.
> It's not perfect. But, it is a step in the right direction. A very very expensive step.
> Cats and dogs being sold at petstores (the stores that still sell them) are kept in areas far smaller than what is expected in real life. As long as the pet stores STRESS that this is TEMPORARY, like the cups, it would be ok. And I don't think it holds any higher risk of disease spread than the regular tropical fish that all get dumped into a common tank. I presume they don't quarantine goldfish, angelfish, or neons anymore than they would bettas.


I think there's an assumption that fish require much less attention, love and responsibility than dogs and cats. We're pretty mammal-obsessed.


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

To be honest from my perspective its not too bad. I often have the need to keep multiple juvi males from the same spawn separated after 10-12 weeks. Since they are healthy and from the same spawn disease should not be an issue. It is a heated and filtered system that could actually help someone like me. Anything is better than the cup imho. Not for everyone for sure, but it really isn't that bad because it is size adjustable.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

charliegill110 said:


> its not perfect but i think its a step in the right direction to getting bettas out of the cups. but i've noticed a couple people saying pet stores have tried this before and it always ends in disease outbreak - how does a pet store keepings bettas in a divided tank differ from keeping all their other fish in a divided tank? i've seen pet stores doing that with their normal fish stock


Honestly, I think the bettas are in worse shape (disease-wise) when they get them. It could also be that the bettas are more stressed since they are in such close proximity to other males and can't hide (mine like to see each other, but they each have a 10 gallon tank and can easily move away). Or, damage caused by fin nipping through the slit under each divider (yes, I've seen this happen in stores - they always leave this slit for filtration, but fins invariably end up under the divider and get nipped by the neighboring fish) paves the way for infection. Other than these hypotheses, I can't really say why this is the case, but I can say that through empirical evidence, these setups usually end in disease. I think a similar setup (slightly larger compartments with more horizontal swimming room) is a step in the right direction, but I think improvements in the health of the fish need to be made before this can be successful.


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## slimestone (Aug 17, 2014)

Kim said:


> I think a similar setup (slightly larger compartments with more horizontal swimming room) is a step in the right direction, but I think improvements in the health of the fish need to be made before this can be successful.


Well said! This is exactly what I think. It's technically "better", but it's still not good enough, and not really excusable?


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## logisticsguy (Sep 7, 2012)

If it isn't good enough what suggestions do you have for improvement? or are there better systems out there that serve this same purpose? The Elive system that many retailers spent big money on to display betta is certainly not working out very well. I have tried to get the retailer where I sell my betta to start using 1g clear plastic food containers for display.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Yeah, the Elive display is really just a fancy lighting system with an insane price tag. Not really a step in the right direction in my opinion. I think I've already posted my thoughts for a better system earlier in this thread in case you're interested in taking a look. I could build it for a reasonable price, but since stores want everything pre-made, I don't see it happening any time soon due to the plumbing involved. BUT, if we are concerned about the humane treatment of bettas, I think it's the way to go.


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## BettaGirl612 (Aug 7, 2014)

This would just be horrible stressful...


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## slimestone (Aug 17, 2014)

logisticsguy - I actually reckon plastic food containers (granted they're big enough) would work out fine. They're not huge, but they are big enough until the fish is placed in its new home. Yes, it would mean the pet store couldn't hold as many fish at the one time, and would make less of an economic return, but again, these are living creatures, not decorations, and should be treated as such.


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## SiameseFightingArt (Jun 17, 2014)

They should only sell this to pet stores to show the bettas for sale. +1 myexplodingcat


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

slimestone said:


> logisticsguy - I actually reckon plastic food containers (granted they're big enough) would work out fine. They're not huge, but they are big enough until the fish is placed in its new home. Yes, it would mean the pet store couldn't hold as many fish at the one time, and would make less of an economic return, but again, these are living creatures, not decorations, and should be treated as such.


Exactly, there are laws in place to protect other animals from money-hungry profit-driven companies, and it's time fish should be included in this mentality. Yes, it would reduce profits to keep bettas in better conditions, but that is no excuse for animal abuse. People would not tolerate uncared for puppies or kittens being sold in cardboard boxes filled with their own feces, and there needs to be a similar push for the ethical treatment of fish. Life should be valued over profit.


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## Rin68nyr (Jun 12, 2014)

Thankfully, the LFS down the street where I get my fish keep their bettas in individual, large vases. About a half gallon each. They always seem to be clean, too.

Erin


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