# solid red hmpk male x red black koi female HMPK,curious spawn



## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Male : solid red HMPK
female : Red Black HMPK koi




bought the female along with her son, but can't do cross back since son is not big enough, while the female is very full of eggs, still need two more month to raise the koi's son,so i decided to cross the female to my solid red hmpk male, like the male body shape and hope to have a line of that kind, as well as curious to see if crossing solid red to a koi female would infuse more red to the koi offspring or on the other way want to see how the female's marble gene will work on would be fry if crossed to solid male,either way is good since i already see the female offspring from another koi male, she pass down quite decent shape.

spawned at 21-01-2016,not too many eggs, perhaps i take the female out too early. and eggs looks bigger than usual, maybe because the female is a full size adult HMPK. The eggs seem to hatched a bigger fry compare to the usual fry i got from other spawns, I think i have about 50-70 of them
fry are free swimming already they are healthy and spot them hunting for the daphnias i put in actively. Male taken out and on recondition mode again for my red x red spawn.


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## SusieG (Oct 19, 2015)

I'll keep looking at this one! The more I see koi/ marble bred to a solid, I see nicer fry . I think with breeding marble x marble or koi x koi, I'm seeing more cellos then cool looking fish. I'm on bettas4all forum as well and have looked threw a ton of spawn logs to see the out comes are and I think I will try marble to soild next. My current spawn is marble x marble


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Grow fast, little babies!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

a better pics of mom
fry are healthy and growing at very nice pace,about 0.40cm-0.50 cm now tip to tip


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## hellobird (Nov 11, 2015)

interested in seeing how these fry turn out!


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Very keen to see what colours you get from these guys :-D


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

in my imagination, the male will pass down his nice body line that i personally like,and bleed more red color to the offspring to prevent more cello coming out from fry that usually a lot on marble spawn, along with his neat anal fin, but its only my wish lol, i am afraid it doesn't work this way? maybe i'll have better chance to have it on f2 spawn where theoretically the fry will own each of marble geno and solid red geno?


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

getting bigger now,they seem no runts on this spawn ,maybe because they are only few of them, no dead fry spotted.

Here some photos of them, they are still in spawning tank, i'm planning to move them to clear glass tank so i can get a side pics of them for sake your enjoyment,it must be boring seeing them over top view only lol, i am too very curious of this spawn, i want to see clearly their color development stage by stage, so next pic will be side view.

btw i will try to get f1b line from parents ,they are back in shape now, so i guess i can spawn them soon,perhaps in one or two more days.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

been a while since i update, here some photos of the frys, a nice surprise that the father seems to strengthen the red color, as normally to koi line they start out as multies, but on interestingly on this spawn all fry seems to have red fins, will see if the marble factor from the female play out later, or not? 

camera have a bit problem, i think the setting messed up, i have hard time to focus on the pics,so they are a bit blur


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

its been a while since i last update this thread , somehow keep missing to remember to take some pic after doing WC. there are only 80+ fry on this spawn, some already starting to marble, got one peculiar fry with orange head and irids on body, one biggest male which is on 1st pic looks to inherit the father body shape, but the anal fins is not too good, caudal form look promising with long outer rays,while some seems to get their mother dorsal shape, they got hit by ich, but still eating like pigs , i am treating them and hopefully they will be good in couple more days.

another month to wait for them to develop more clearer marble pattern. perhaps need f2 to get back the mother koi pattern, not sure though these whole crossing in and out really new to me.

some pics of a couple individuals :


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

Huh, I'm wondering if the male is a cambo-based red. Spawn and wait; spawn and wait


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

Zhylis said:


> Huh, I'm wondering if the male is a cambo-based red. Spawn and wait; spawn and wait


he got too many irids to be cambo base? will need a spawn to a red female to know it which is very soon to be happen lol, its been a while, i need a HMPK red spawn, actually really need to wait for one more month to see how these fry faring to see the form this male gives. What do you think of this male's form?


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## Zhylis (Nov 4, 2014)

I've seen cambo with iridescence on the body; it's definitely a flaw in pure cambodians. When I say cambo-based, I mean to say "light bodied" as in cambo is blocking black (BLI, less effect on BSE) from developing on the body, since he doesn't have a black head. (That definition may be specific to me though...) And they usually throw a high percentage of cambo patterns when bred to cambo female.

I love his body shape; thick and deep while still a good length. Dorsal, good length in the first ray. Some will say the actual first ray is short and stubby, but from a biological standpoint, the first 2 rays in the dorsal are bone while the rest are cartilage. Just breed the bone rays shorter until they disappear; the length of the first cartilage ray is nice and long, minor stair-stepping; otherwise I like the dorsall. Good overlap with the tail. Tail looks a little uneven to me; it may be the position of the fish in the photo. Very rounded corners, but good ray count in the tail. Anal fin, I'd like to see a more defined point and length to match the ventrals. It's half way between asymmetrical and symmetrical HMPK. Otherwise, very tidy. Can't see the ventrals very clearly, but I think they have a very nice, full shape and sharp point.


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

i keep missing the time to take photos of this spawn, fry are grown up huge!! but unfortunately some inherited that long anal mother has, some other have the father body shape, color wise only one fry has that koi spot,while the rest are just plain boring multi color type, some developed whitish opaque irid blocks on body, there's 2 unique fry , one is red combined with cello flesh marble , this one is quite nice on form, another is a steel blue mix with blackish fins which form is not good.
i still hope to see some late change on this spawn, there's 1 pair i think that is set to go f2 to see if they can bear some koi pattern back.

sorry no photos yet, but they are coming soon!


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## liamthen (Dec 18, 2015)

some recent photos of the fry, they grown up big now, not much left about 60++ i guess , got some 10+ dead during a diseases outbreak, the fry seem to inherit both parents characteristic, i am happy to find some of the fry have neat anal and the father body shape which i personally like a lot.

on the male with long anal, i have plan for them, since they carry koi and solid red genes, i will use the males with long anal to spawn to HM females so they can pass down the mix traits they carry from both parents, would be interesting to see the result.

only few fry carry koi characteristic spots, this lead to conclusion, spawning koi to a solid do not give you a decent koi fry compare to koi x koi, i am spawning koi x koi at the same time, as you can see in that spawn log that are in this forum as well, they give more fry with koi spots.
i will still try this line to f2 just to see when those siblings are spawned would the koi genes back to give more fry with koi pattern, it should be interesting one on f2 , since fry carry solid red genes and koi genes


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## trilobite (May 18, 2011)

Interesting to see you got a blue one. And thanks for this spawn log because for a long time I have been curious about doing a similar colour cross with my red guy before he died. I'll definitely be keeping my eye out for F2 to see what colours pop up


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