# Insanely High Ammonia.



## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

I finally got the chance to switch my tank to a soil-based planted tank on Sunday. It was a looooooong process, but I'm happy it's done! However, I've seem to run into a problem. 

Last night when I went to bed, the water column was clear. It took three complete drainings of the tank to get it that way, but the end result was water that was as clear as glass. This morning when I woke up (around 7:30am), the water was sort of murky, but not completely turbid. Then, when I came home from class, I noticed my tank water had gotten so dark that I could barely see anything in it. Out of curiosity, I decided to check the ammonia reading and it read an outstanding *8ppm*. Thankfully, I had decided last night not to put my fish & snail back into the tank, so they weren't exposed to the sudden ammonia spike.

I'm just really confused because all of the guides I've read have said that you should be able to safely add your tank inhabitants the day you set up the tank, but had I done that, I'm pretty sure I would have come home to a dead fish this morning.

I have a 5 gallon tank that's filtered & heated to about 80 degrees.

- *Lighting:* One Zoomed Daylight bulb; 10 watts, 6500k; 12 hour photoperiod
- *Substrate:* Miracle-Gro Organic Choice All Purpose Plant Food * capped with Floramax
- *Plants:* dwaf saggitaria, giant hygro, hornwort, anacharis, narrow-leaf anacharis, bacopa caroliniana, two small stalks of bacopa monnieri, a tiny portion of a pennywort plant, wisteria, watersprite, "dwarf amazon sword", one stem of ludwiga, a little guppy grass, one marimo moss ball, duckweed and salivinia minima
- *Fauna:* my betta & mystery snail will eventually be going back into the tank, as well as three trumpet snails and a varied mix of about 10 pond & ramshorn snails.

* After having to set up this tank TWICE, I only JUST NOTICED (as in, while I'm typing this) that this isn't what I thought it was (Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting MIX). Could this be the reason for my high ammonia?


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Yikes :shock: It sounds like the potting mix must have chemicals that will be toxic in a fish tank. 

If it were me, I'd start over with new substrate.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Romad said:


> Yikes :shock: It sounds like the potting mix must have chemicals that will be toxic in a fish tank.
> 
> If it were me, I'd start over with new substrate.


Yeah, after doing some research, I'm pretty sure it was the soil. I guess I'll just tear it down and try again this weekend. *sigh*


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## Romad (Jun 28, 2009)

Look on the bright side, at least you didn't add your fish back to the tank. You sure dodged a bullet with that.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Haha, yeah. I guess that was a good call on my part.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't think it's the plant food you are meant to be using from the Miracle Gro range. Pretty sure it is the Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix. That could be why you got such a high ammonia reading.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

LittleBettaFish said:


> I don't think it's the plant food you are meant to be using from the Miracle Gro range. Pretty sure it is the Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix. That could be why you got such a high ammonia reading.


Yeah, I discovered that while I was typing out my first post. When I saw bought it, I didn't really pay attention the what was on the bag, just the color of it. I'll be redoing the tank this weekend.


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## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Haha I saw that at the bottom of your OP after I had posted. It was lucky you tested your water and took your livestock out, as who knows what else was in there. Would have been horrible to poison your fish. 

I was cautious about using even the Miracle Gro Potting Mix (using potting mix in an aquarium just seems weird), but I had a couple of fish in there a week or so after set-up and they did fine. The plants also loved it.


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## MonteCarlo (Dec 4, 2012)

dunno if this helps your cause but I currently have Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix in my 10gal NPT, its been over 4 weeks now, its usually at 0ppm, and my mystery snail/white clouds and plants are doing fine


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

MonteCarlo said:


> dunno if this helps your cause but I currently have Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix in my 10gal NPT, its been over 4 weeks now, its usually at 0ppm, and my mystery snail/white clouds and plants are doing fine


Yeah, that's the soil that I THOUGHT I had picked up. But alas, I didn't and now my tank is a deathtrap for anything that goes in there, haha. I'll be sure to pay closer attention next time!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

Edith wait...
rereads...

All purpose plant food?!?!

scrap the original post lol! pull the plants before they die!

Original post:
Wait! don't tear it down yet! get some black sand from petco or something and fill in the floramax. the flora max is likely not a good gap and allowing the ammonia to seep through. 

to add the sand, first drain the tank completely

rinse sand well in a bucket, then take the sand and do a layer over the floramax. work your way around the plants. (assuming you have black? if not use whatever color sand your floramax is...)

cover everything with saran wrap, then fill. the saran wrap will prevent loose particles and dust from flying everywhere.

Allow the tank to run without livestock for a week or two. it WILL establish itself....do 50% water changes atleast once a week for the first few weeks...


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## GoodMorning (Jan 19, 2013)

out of curiosity, why wont someone want soil from the river?


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

not everyone has a river  plus it smells 
but realistically it's top grade substrate... providing the river is clean and unpolluted


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

aokashi said:


> Wait! don't tear it down yet! get some black sand from petco or something and fill in the floramax. the flora max is likely not a good gap and allowing the ammonia to seep through.
> 
> to add the sand, first drain the tank completely
> 
> ...


Oh hi! 

From what I gathered from my research before hand, a lot of people have had success using floramax as a cap which is why I went on ahead and bought it. I'm pretty convinced that the ammonia spike is from my soil, and I'm scared that even if it does stabilize, that it'll suddenly spike back up as the soil ages & releases more of whatever "nutrients" it has to offer. At this point, I'm just a lot more comfortable going with what I *know* will work. Plus, my tank smells absolutely _horrid_ so I'm not at all opposed to starting over, haha. Thanks for the info though! If I weren't so impatient, I would definitely try your method. It would save me gas money for sure.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Oh whoops, I didn't see that you'd edited your post! I'll pull the plants out right now & see about getting the *correct* substrate tomorrow after classes.


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## Nothingness (Oct 11, 2012)

Be sure to sift the soil as well. You will pull out a pound or 2 of large wood bits and other debris that will break down and cause potential hazards to your tank


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Will do, thanks!


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

I' looking forward to your updates! Floramax is a pretty good substrate by it self


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

So, I changed the substrate to Miracle Gro Organic Potting Mix and got the tank set up again. It's been running for a little under a week now...and I still have ammonia readings? Granted, this time it's somewhere between .25 and .5ppm, but that's not "safe" enough for me to allow my fish to swim freely in (which is why he's in his cup, as is my mystery snail (not in the same cup, mind you!)). Considering how heavily planted my tank is, it should read zero, right? Does anyone have any ideas about what's going on?

Oh, I should tell you that my tap water has .25ppm ammonia in it, and if it matters, Prime is my dechlorinator. 

(also, sorry for the quality of the picture; i took it with my phone)


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

I have a NPT too and it still has a little ammonia. It's going to leach a little but once your cycle kicks in (it has probably already started) you'll never notice. Your snail and betta will create a smaller load than the plants and good bacteria can eat you'll be fine.

Looking at your tank, I need more plants in mine. It doesn't help that I have a huge piece of wood in mine though LOL. Your plants should start exploding next week or the week after. You should see growth but then it'll go POOF and you'll need to do a trim. That's a very good sign.

Here's the thread to mine if you're interested.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=127007


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

The ammonia reading is sitting steady at .25 ppm, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 5. I'm guessing the soil is leaching ammonia a little faster than my plants can absorb it. Still hesitant about putting my fish in the tank; I think I'll wait another week and see what happens.

I saw your tank a little while ago, Aurie. I love the driftwood. I didn't want to have to deal with tannins and fungus/mold growing on driftwood so I opted for a fake log, haha.


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## Aurie (Jun 22, 2012)

My driftwood finally got that slime off it and its perfectly fine. I wish I could get my hands in some manzanita though


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

consider cycling the tank for a few weeks as you would any other tank. The decomposing soil is your ammonia source so let it run its course. If you keep fiddling with it, it only prolongs the process.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

Aurie said:


> My driftwood finally got that slime off it and its perfectly fine. I wish I could get my hands in some manzanita though


I had to google what manzanita was but that looks so cool! I'm guessing it's hard to find?



acitydweller said:


> consider cycling the tank for a few weeks as you would any other tank. The decomposing soil is your ammonia source so let it run its course. If you keep fiddling with it, it only prolongs the process.


The only thing I've done to my tank since I set it back up was move the amazon sword over a bit. Otherwise, I haven't touched or added anything because of the ammonia readings. I was just perplexed why I even *had* ammonia readings in the first place because 1) my tank was fully cycled before making the switch to a planted tank and 2) my tank is 95% stem and floating plants that I *thought* were supposed to consume all of the ammonia. I assumed that it had something to do with the soil though, so thanks for confirming that.


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## sarahspins (Sep 5, 2012)

Rotting plant material will cause ammonia... whether that is from your plants or your substrate, it can produce it faster than your plants or bio filter can handle it.

Plants don't immediately remove free ammonia (NH3) either.. they will use up any ammonium (NH4) present first.

Also, if your tap water containes chloramines (most do now) and you are using prime you will get "false" positive results for ammonia using the API test because prime converts the chloramines into ammonium (NH4). Using Seachem's Ammonia Test kit or Ammonia Alert will give you an accurate reading of your harmful free ammonia (NH3) instead of the total ammonia that the API kit tests for.


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## colorxmexravyne (May 8, 2012)

sarahspins said:


> Rotting plant material will cause ammonia... whether that is from your plants or your substrate, it can produce it faster than your plants or bio filter can handle it.
> 
> Plants don't immediately remove free ammonia (NH3) either.. they will use up any ammonium (NH4) present first.
> 
> Also, if your tap water containes chloramines (most do now) and you are using prime you will get "false" positive results for ammonia using the API test because prime converts the chloramines into ammonium (NH4). Using Seachem's Ammonia Test kit or Ammonia Alert will give you an accurate reading of your harmful free ammonia (NH3) instead of the total ammonia that the API kit tests for.


Awesome info! I'll look into getting Seachem's ammonia test within the next week. Thanks so much!


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## sarahspins (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm a big fan of the Ammonia Alert myself.. some Petsmarts carry those. The concept is the same as the test kit except it can be read "any time" (the kit has to be read at 15 or 30 minutes) - you will read a lot of reviews where people claim they are inaccurate but I don't think most of those understand the difference between free ammonia and total ammonia, so when what their alert shows doesn't match their API (or strip test) they assume it's defective, but it's most likely not, it's just measuring the harmful free ammonia, not the total ammonia (which can be higher for a number of reasons). 

I have one in every tank and mine work very well... I see an almost immediate change when I feed my frogs for example, because their frozen food contains (and I'm sure is producing) ammonia, but it drops off within a couple of hours of the frogs eating as the bacteria in the filter are busy converting it, and the alert can differentiate between very small amounts of ammonia (the "alert" level is only 0.05, "alarm" is 0.2, and "toxic" is 0.5ppm), where as even with the API test kit, it can be difficult to tell if your test is really as green as .25ppm, or somewhat less... and of course you really don't know what portion of that reading is actually harmful.


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