# New Betta, think its Columnaris



## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe it was a bad idea to buy him at Petsmart for 2.11 (including tax) when the rest of them looked so rough. There was one that was bloated and dead already and another that looked awful. But the one I settled on was bright red, really pretty, no visible legions or imperfections, flared when I got in his face, showing he was active.

I noticed though that he wasn't extremely active, but I thought it was just a different personality. However even now in his new tank all he does is lay at the bottom, swim around and then rest again. His color is fading and that's when I noticed the white spots on his face. 

I've been reading up on it but I have no idea what to do or where to start. I used safestart to treat his filter, should I basically waste the $10 and disinfect the filter or risk another out break assuming he survives treatment?

What should I use to treat him, and when should I start even if I'm not sure that it's Columnaris? 

How fast does columnaris kill? Should I move him to a "hospital tank" even though it's cold as all hell in my room and I wouldn't have a way to regulate the temperature? Can I treat him in his tank? 

I just got him like two days ago and don't want him to just die. Please help!


2 gallon tank, heater, filter, gravel substrate, small snail, temperature fluctuates between 72-78 degrees. Used safestart to help cycle the tank, seeing white and gray patches on his face, kind of fuzzy looking. Use Nutrafin betta plus water conditioner and dechlorinator. I got him the day before yesterday and the temperature got kind of high last night (78) and that's when the fuzzy white stuff finally showed up. He didn't eat yesterday and ate like one tiny flake of betta food today.

No aeration, haven't tested the water, have only had him for 2 days so I haven't changed the water yet, 2 snails in the tank with him, one of them is a tiny baby and the other is bigger but it hasn't moved since I bought it earlier so I assume its dead.

What's worse though is that he's really laying there long enough for me to just take pictures of him at my leisure. 











If the treatment for Columnaris doesn't work, what can I expect in terms of life expectancy? And how can I disinfect the tank in case I want to try this all over again if he doesn't live? Is Maracyn okay to treat it?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hi astrid and welcome to the forum. First, can you answer a few questions?

What size is his tank? 
Any live plants or tankmates?
Is it heated? What temp?
Can you get a pic of the white spots? Do they look fuzzy and raised?

If it's columnaris, it can vary depending on the strain. Some forms of acute columnaris can kill within days but usually, we can catch most forms and at least start treatment before things get worse.

For now, leave him in his tank where he can stay warm. If he's having a hard time reaching the surface to breathe, lower the water a bit.


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## chrissylee13 (Jan 1, 2012)

did you read the sticky on this?
here is the part about what you think he has.

*Columnaris*
•Symptoms: White spots on mouth, edges of scales and fins, Cottony Growth that eats away at the mouth, Fins rapidly disingrate, starting at the edges
Gray areas around head and gills, As the disease progresses the gray lesions may change in color to yellow/brown/red, Lesions often occur in front of the dorsal causing a “saddleback” appearance, Lethargic, Loss of appetite, Clamped, Gasping for air
•Treatment: There are 2 versions of Columnaris: chronic and acute. Chronic Columnaris can take days to progress while acute can kill within a day. It is contagious so isolate sick fish. If more than one fish shows symptoms then treat the entire tank. Perform daily 100% water change in small tanks or ¾ water change in larger tanks. Make sure to clean the gravel. Treat with Aq.Salt: add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Do NOT raise the temperature as it thrives in temps over 85*F, however, lowering the temperature does not seem to help fight it. Combine salt treatment with Mardel’s Coppersafe, Maracyn I & II, API Erythromycin, OR API Triple Sulfa, combined with Jungle’s Fungus Eliminator (if possible).

right now i have 2 bettas in a 10 gal tank. i noticed my newest betta has a slight fuzzy patch on him. so i quickly did a major but not complete water change on the whole tank. i then added AQ salt to the whole tank. i also have a half gal tank i am using to separate and really treat my sick fish. i boiled everything for the 1/2 gal and replaced it and treated with a 1/2 tsp AQ salt. we'll see how it goes!


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

hey, ya'll. i helped her out on Tumblr, but i'm not that great on Meds, so i turned her here. :V i copy-pasted the sticky there to her already, but as i said, i'm not great with things like this. x-x


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

chrissylee13 said:


> •Symptoms: White spots on mouth, edges of scales and fins, Cottony Growth that eats away at the mouth Lesions often occur in front of the dorsal causing a “saddleback” appearance, Lethargic, Loss of appetite, Clamped, Gasping for air
> •Treatment: There are 2 versions of Columnaris: chronic and acute. Chronic Columnaris can take days to progress while Perform daily 100% water change in small tanks or ¾ water change in larger tanks. Make sure to clean the gravel. Treat with Aq.Salt: add 1 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt 3 times, 12 hours apart so that you end up with 3 times the normal concentration. Do NOT raise the temperature as it thrives in temps over 85*F, however, lowering the temperature does not seem to help fight it. Combine salt treatment with Mardel’s Coppersafe, Maracyn I & II.


I think it's chronic because it's been 3 days since I've bought him. He's very lethargic, I've seen cottony growth. He won't eat, but he's not really clamped. He breathes fine. I don't have Aquarium salt so I don't know what to do with it right now. I will definitely go pick up some aquarium salt and Maracyn I and II. Should I do both or just try one? Thank you so much for responding.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Both Maracyn I and II. That'll treat gram negative and gram positive bacteria. Good luck!


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> If it's columnaris, it can vary depending on the strain. Some forms of acute columnaris can kill within days but usually, we can catch most forms and at least start treatment before things get worse.
> 
> For now, leave him in his tank where he can stay warm. If he's having a hard time reaching the surface to breathe, lower the water a bit.



I went back and edited the first post to answer questions when I saw the sticky while waiting for someone to respond. He's still swimming up to the surface, but only when he gets up the energy to it seems. Like it's not difficult for him but he just... doesn't. How long should treatment take?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

A course of Maracyn should take 5 days for both Maracyn I and II. Do you have something you can put the small snails in? They're really sensitive to chemicals and I kinda worry two meds would kill them. I can definitely see the white fuzz so I think you are right, it looks like chronic columnaris.

Remove any carbon from your filter before you medicate, otherwise the carbon sucks the meds right out of the water.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Sakura8 said:


> A course of Maracyn should take 5 days for both Maracyn I and II. Do you have something you can put the small snails in? They're really sensitive to chemicals and I kinda worry two meds would kill them. I can definitely see the white fuzz so I think you are right, it looks like chronic columnaris.
> 
> Remove any carbon from your filter before you medicate, otherwise the carbon sucks the meds right out of the water.



So a separate course for both of them (so 10 days?) or can I use both of them at the same time? And I can put the smaller snail in my mom's fish tank. And should I disinfect the carbon out of the filter or can I keep it? Or would that be a chance of reintroducing the columnaris into the tank once he's treated?

Also how should I disinfect the rest of the tank?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You use them at the same time. You should be able to keep the carbon but if you don't want to take a risk, you can always dump it.

To help with dosing the Maracyn, you'll need two pretty big jugs, 1/2 or 1 gallon. Fill the first with 5 cups dechlorinated water and add the dosage for one med. Shake well. Now, you'll use 1/2 cup of medicated water per gallon of tank water. So you'd pour in 1 cup of medicated water into your 2 gallon tank. Discard the rest of the medicated water if it is Maracyn II, as the dosage changes for the next days. Repeat for Maracyn I in the other jug. This jug you can keep for a few days and use for water changes. After a few days, make up a new fresh batch.

You'll want to do daily 100% water changes and redose the meds each day.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you so much. But I can't really get to the Maracyn or Aquarium Salt until tomorrow (Seeing as its 1 am). I'm doing a full water change right now, is there really anything else I can do?


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Just keep the heat a little lower than normal. Otherwise, you're doing a great job and everything you can.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you so much! I don't think I can turn the heat down with the heater on it (internal thermostat). But I guess I'll just have to hold off until tomorrow, as will he.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

He sounds like a little trooper, hanging in there.  As long as the heat doesn't skyrocket into the 80's, he'll be fine. Good luck!


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

It's so awful. My mom thought he was dead (I was out today) but he was still swimming when I got home. My mom thought he was dead so she didn't put any of the medicine in.

I also couldn't find Maracyn II (I did see the Maracyn I, but I wanted to do both treatments) so I bought pimafix and melafix (I think that's what it's called, I'm eating and don't want to go touch the bottles again, and they're for fungal and bacterial problems respectively. I also read about them when I was looking for cures outside of the forum). I dosed him with the two, put aquarium salt in, and hope for the best.

He's still breathing but he's having difficulties swimming. Like he can make it to the top but sometimes he floats in awkward positions. I don't want to take too much water out because it's hard enough to decide dosing with 2 gallons. Less would be impossible.

To be honest I'm scared to do a full water change every day, he's not looking too good and I'm afraid it will stress him out more. He's fighting really hard though... Like after a while of being lethargic he starts freaking out and swimming like he can't stand just laying down (or he just really needs oxygen)

It's hard seeing whats going on in the tank because I remembered the medicine was light sensitive. So every now and again I have to really peer in and see if his gills are still rising and falling. Not much of the cottony stuff can be seen outside, but I am scared its inside his lungs worse. 

My mom thinks I'm crazy (getting a new fish would be cheaper than the care for the already diseased fish) but I really don't want him to die. =(

Thank you guys for your help.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm sorry things are so rough right now, Astrid. I know the Maracyns are light sensitive but I don't remember if PimaFix and MelaFix are so you can probably turn a light on to look in on him. Be very careful not to overdose those two medicines, as they contain ingredients that can easily kill if overdosed. I hope they work for him, the poor fellow. He sounds pretty miserable. Hang in there, you're doing a good job.

Let us know if there's anything else we can do for you.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm trying not to overdose, but it's kind of hard to decide dosing in a 2 gallon tank when it's giving instructions for 10 gallons. I settled on a little less than half a tablespoon. 

I'm also worried because he won't (or can't eat) =( 

Thank you so much!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, if you aren't sure, definitely err on the side of caution with those meds. And yeah, dosing is so hard for small tanks. :/

You could try to soak some food in garlic juice. Garlic juice is an appetite stimulant as well as a healthy source of antioxidants so maybe that will work? Poor guy. It's never a good sign when they stop eating.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Thank you so much for the help but as 2:04 am this morning Icarus died. He was already in really bad shape so I don't think that I overdosed him or anything.

I am going to petsmart tomorrow and demanding a healthy replacement. I really want a new fish and am not ready to give up yet. I need ideas on how to disinfect the tank and make it betta friendly so this doesn't happen again.

Is it alright if I predose the tank with a tad bit of the Pimafin (or whichever one it was that is antibacterial) to make sure that even before he shows signs of sickness it will make him better or guarantee that he's okay? Or should it be alright with just a tad bit of aquarium salt? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear he passed, Astrid.  You can wash the tank with scalding hot water and some vinegar and then if you feel that it might help, you can put some PimaFix in, let it sit overnight, and then rinse the tank to get the PimaFix out. That should pretty much disinfect everything thoroughly.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

aawww! i'm so sorry 'bout him! you tried hard, and i'm sure he knows it. :T

i hope whoever you get, thrives for ya. just be sure to rinse the tank in scalding water. x:


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

I will be sure to use the vinegar and scalding hot water. I'm kinda iffy on the pimafix because I read up and it has some pretty strong stuff in it, and I'm wary about coming into too much contact with it unless I need to. 

I just hope they let me exchange him at petsmart because I don't have the receipt anymore (Wasn't really expecting to have a problem with him I guess). I do have the little cup he came in and it was only a couple days ago. I'm hoping for the best you guys! Thank you all!


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry your fish did not make it 

Sorry to disagree but vinegar is very good with breaking up mineral deposits and removing odors and does have some mild antibacterial properties but will not disinfect everything. Since your fish was in the tank with a deadly illness I would not feel comfortable putting another fish in it serialized with vinegar alone. I suggest bleaching in 10% solution. Soak for about 10-15 minutes then rinse very very well. Finally, once no bleach smell is present and you are sure you're done, fill up with more tap water and add some dechlorinator and soak some more.. rinse and again and out gas 24 hours. This will definitely make the tank safe again.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Now you're scaring me! I rinsed everything in scalding hot water and vinegar. I scrubbed it all and rinsed the gravel and tank out completely. I let the solution and hot water sit and did it several times. I was afraid of using bleach, so I'd already put the new fish in there! 

I added aquarium salt to the tank this time so hopefully that will keep all the nasties at bay, but I do have pimafix and melafix at hand so if I see Virgil start to act weird I will act! Hopefully because the fungi took several days to kill Icarus (with no treatment, and who knows how long he'd had it before) as opposed to acute columnaris which would have killed in hours 

The antifungal and antibacterial treated water soaked into the tank for a whole night as well. So maybe I'm just overworrying. I cleaned everything. The heater, the filter, the tank, the gravel. 

I don't want to lose another fish =c


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

i just use scalding water anymore. the water here, for some reason, gets over 100F, so there's no nasties in my tanks. o.0

i hope you have the new boy alot longer than you had the first. D: i just bought two new boys(and one's, strangely enough, pure red. o-o), so i'm freaking out over everything and keeping a close eye on them.


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## callistra (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay. No reason to panic. It will probably be just fine, but just so you know I've bleached my tanks numerous times without issue. It really is very safe so long as you rinse properly.

I would not treat with melafix as it has an ingredient known to destroy the labrynth organ in fish and so they can't breathe. It's advised not to use on labrynth organ fish. Bettafix is supposedly diluted melafix (actually 1/5th the potency I believe but don't quote me). Also Melfix dosage is 1tsp per 10 gallons so half a tablespoon is 2 gallon is.. Well, 3 tsp = 1 tbs so you did roughly 1.5tsp in that 2 gallon so that's.. a lot.. I don't want to make you feel bad but since you're talking about possibility medicating new fish thought I should bring this info to your attention. 3 tsp per 10 gallon ratio would be .6 tsp per 2 gallon so basically half a teaspoon. 

If you're wanting to hold something on hand that will treat actual columnaris as well as fuzzy fungals I would look into Kanamyacin (Kanaplex) by Seachem.

You don't want to leave salt in an aquarium long term. Certainly no more than 2 weeks.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

I used half a teaspoon for both melafix and pimafix. I didn't think I should use too much but I definitely did not know that it harmed the labyrinth organ. Before I use it I'll definitely dilute it next time. 

And I didn't want to get the maracyn because I wanted to use both I and II but only found one. I thought it was a severe case (it was) and tried to do what I thought was best. 

Because he's in a new tank and I'm not sure about the fact that there may still be some nasties in there I was planning on doing a 50% water change in 3 days just to make sure he's alright. I've heard different recommendations for how much I should change the water in my tank but mostly from what I've read it's said that it's harder for bacteria to flourish if I do more water changes. So I'm going to stick to that. 

And while I read that betta's are sensitive to saline, I only put 1 teaspoon in there. However I didn't read anything about not keeping salt in there for just a week, is there any reason why you say that? I planned on changing the water often but I did plan on keeping the salt in there. I do want to err on the side of caution though because I really don't want to kill Virgil so maybe regardless of your response, I will only keep it in there for a week just as a sort of assurance that the Columnaris (or whatever fungal/bacterial disease Icarus succumbed to) is really gone. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer =3


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I second Callistra on the MelaFix, BettaFix, and PimaFix. I generally don't recommend using them as they are very easy to overdose and can cause harm. But everyone is different and if you feel comfortable using them, then by all means, go ahead as I have heard they can be very effective. It's all up to you, Astrid.  Don't worry about your new guy, I'm sure you disinfected the tank very well. Scalding water alone should do the trick but since you added in all the other things, you're fine.

Long-term exposure to salt can cause damage to the kidneys.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

And I think my water got to 100 as well lol! The thermometer maxed out and then just kinda stayed maxed out so I couldn't read what the actual temperature it was. (my small thermometer only goes to 86). So I hope the scalding water was good enough. I'm trying so hard to make sure Virgil is okay. He is very active so that's a good sign.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

If Virgil is healthy, then he has a good chance of fighting off anything that comes his way.  You'd be very surprised to know that there is a lot of bacteria naturally in our tanks. There's a lot of the good bacteria that we want but there's also small quantities of the bad disease bacteria present too. It's just when a fish's immune system becomes suppressed, he gets sick easily. And just about anything can cause the immune system to become compromised. You did a good job, Astrid, and I know you'll do a fine job with Virgil. 

By the way, I love their names. Do you like Greek mythology and literature?


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

I love mythology of many different kinds. I was going to name him Dante but I decided I liked Virgil better for him XD Maybe that means he'll be able to get by on his own. 

I'm trying to do a good job! I just hope he works with me. All of petsmart's collection of fish to choose from were very small and not very brightly colored. I just hope over time he gets better. But he was the most active one out of the all, very feisty and did not stop moving in reaction to what was going on around him at any point in time. So I think I chose a good one as far as those things go. 

I'd always taken foregranted that my fish would just live. I didn't realize so much would be at stake.


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## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think you're doing a great job so don't worry, Astrid. Even the most experienced fishowners who've been keeping fish for decades lose some to disease. It doesn't help that the conditions our pet store bettas are kept in lend themselves to disease. I think after a few days with you, Virgil will color up beautifully.


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## astridbby (Jan 6, 2012)

Virgil ate! And his color is perking up some, and I'm doing a partial water change today so I think he has a good chance to survive.

Thanks so much for the help! I'll make sure to be back here if there's ever a problem.


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## Luimeril (Dec 29, 2010)

this place is fun to just browse! you learn so much just by browsing, get to see some beautiful fish, and get to talk about quirks your bettas have, or ways to make them happier!


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