# Do betta fish feel pain?



## MyBettaJack (Sep 21, 2013)

There seem to be widely differing opinions on this subject, so I'm going to ask this question: Do betta fish feel physical pain while sick or dying? I'm not talking about an "understanding" of suffering or an ability to feel pain as humans do. I'm curious from a more of a scientific standpoint vs. real life experiences. Thanks, friends.:hmm:


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

Any living creature can feel pain. They feel it the same way that other types of pets do. But they don't really express it with yowls or screams. Bettas were never given a voice to call out for help. That's why we have to be there to speak for them.


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## MyBettaJack (Sep 21, 2013)

I happen to feel the same, but have been told they lack a part of the brain that prevents it. They can learn to recognize you, jump through hoops, not to mention socialize with each other, then certainly they MUST feel pain, right? I do believe they tell us in their own ways, if we look for it.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

True. Though I have never heard of them lacking any connection with pain. They could possibly just feel it, but not show it. 

I speak this from experience: You can see it in their eyes. It's as if that is their call for help. An innocence face that can turn you into an addict  

It also has to do with body language/movement
slow=bad
alert/active=good


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm in the field of psychology. I know a lot about the brain & reflexes. I know all fish keepers & pet keepers want to think their animal is as human as ourselves. I love my fish. I think they're great. I do not want them to suffer, but there are studies that show that fish, insects, & crustaceans cannot feel pain. It's not that they don't have the brain power. It's because they lack nociceptors, which are what triggers the feelings of pain in humans and other animals. So, a fish's reaction to pain is purely a reflex & not because it's actually feeling anything. I hate that my field of study takes away from some of my human feelings, but this is what is found. It hasn't be PROVEN! But there is very strong cases for the lack of nociceptors in fish. Although, causing any creature pain is not something I condone & I would never do it myself. I hope this helps. Don't hate me. I'm just giving the information that I know.


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## Weaver (Sep 8, 2013)

DerangeUnicorn is sadly correct. This is why for a very long time fish, crustaceans, arthropods, and insects were un-regulated by the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC). Today, all vertebrates (including fish) in experimentation are regulated under the by-laws of that committee. Insects and I think, arthropods (maybe not crustaceans) are the only ones that do not fall under the IACUC's regulations.

Also, for a very long time, birds were not protected under this either. Same goes for amphibians and reptiles. For a long time, it was only the mammals and mammal-like animals that were strictly regulated. 

DerangedUnicorn is correct, the 'pain' we witness is usually a survival/fight-flight/fear-response.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

Ah, this is and always has been a huge debate in the fishkeeping world. Can we take a look at the definition of pain for a second? 

Pain- "An unpleasant sensory and emotional experience associated with actual or potential tissue damage, or described in terms of such damage."


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

MattsBettas, I do agree that fish are going through fear and panic when they are dying or sick. I get that. That is a form of pain. But as far as ACTUAL pain, like physical, they don't. Actually, I do not want to be absolute, since we can never be a fish to know, but that's what the science is pointing to. I don't want to be a know-it-all. & I'm not saying you're wrong. Please don't take it that way. It's just what I've read & studied. Sometimes science makes things cold, I understand.


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## MattsBettas (Dec 18, 2012)

There have also been studies showing otherwise, bare in mind. 

I look at mostly everything from a scientific point of view as well, and part of that is looking at every possibility.


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

The lack of feeling of pain does not justify the lack of sympathy and common sense humans have toward animals. Just because betta can't feel pain, doesn't mean it's okay that humans put them through hard times. A life should be appreciated, celebrated, and enjoyed. 
Case rest.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

True. That's why I said it hasn't been proven & I don't know for sure. Just my two cents. & yes, you need to be skeptical & open to all possibilities or you're not thinking scientifically. I shouldn't speak in such absolute words. In a way, I want them to feel pain, to make them more relate-able, but also, if they don't feel pain, it takes a little heartbreak away from me to know that the fish in the pet store aren't feeling all the pain. *sigh* The world may never know.

Anyways, this is not a debate. We are here to give MyBettaJack our views, so they can make their own informed conclusion. (Sorry, MyBettaJack, I'm not sure if you're male or female. )


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

PetMania said:


> The lack of feeling of pain does not justify the lack of sympathy and common sense humans have toward animals. Just because betta can't feel pain, doesn't mean it's okay that humans put them through hard times. A life should be appreciated, celebrated, and enjoyed.
> Case rest.


+1. Like I said, I do not condone hurting any living thing. (Except spiders & bugs. I hate those. Sorry for any insect lovers.) I volunteer at an animal shelter & try to do everything in my power to help the world out so animals don't suffer or go extinct. I wish more people would care like we do.


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## finnfinnfriend (Feb 3, 2012)

I thought anything with a spine can feel pain.


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## MyBettaJack (Sep 21, 2013)

DerangedUnicorn, I absolutely don't hate you! You've no idea how much you just helped me. I've been beating myself up over a mistake I made that cost the life of my betta Jack. I missed an ammonia spike and was HORRIFIED when I found out that causes death due to internal hemorrhaging. I've envisioned him dying in excruciating pain, my mind telling me that as his keeper I failed. Regardless, his death wasn't an easy way to go. This eases my mind a bit, in a sick way, and I thank you for your honesty.


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## DerangedUnicorn (Sep 5, 2013)

MyBettaJack said:


> I absolutely don't hate you! You've no idea how much you just helped me. I've been beating myself up over a mistake I made that cost the life of my betta Jack. I missed an ammonia spike and was HORRIFIED when I found out that causes death due to internal hemorrhaging. I've envisioned him dying in excruciating pain, my mind telling me that as his keeper I failed. Regardless, his death wasn't an easy way to go. This eases my mind a bit, in a sick way, and I thank you for your honesty.


I know you've been beating yourself up. I've read your thread. I know how it feels. My first two bettas, I screwed up & killed them. That was horrible. I've forgiven myself. I was ignorant to fish keeping at the time, but I tried & that's what matters. Even if he can't feel pain, he felt love. <3 Please don't give up on bettas. They're great! (like Frosted Flakes. lol. Cheesey, I know.)


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## Weaver (Sep 8, 2013)

Aw MyBettaJack, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I hope your Jack is swimming in the Rainbow Pond. You didn't know, it's an accident. *hugs*


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

I truely believe that bettas feel pain. Pearl my red dragon plakat girl cut herself on a sharp piece of glass it was horrible. But anyway when she cut herself she just went and lay on the bottom breathing really fast. Only as it began to heal did she become more active. The cut was on her face and did not hinder her movement. Also Fish have a spine and spinal cord and nerves so they must feel pain. They will move away from things which cause them discomfort such as a hot heater if they lean against it. I have no doubt.....


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

After reading through this thread, and the scientific arguments given, my thought is this; Two of my fish recently went through a long battle with gill flukes, a nasty little parasite that makes them very itchy. My boys were itching on everything, all day long. Rubbing their faces into the gravel over and over again. They were miserable to say the least. After quarantine, medication, etc. they stopped itching completely and returned to normal. Similar behavior is observed with Ich, and other external parasites. Clearly they can feel itchiness, they can express that it is an uncomfortable sensation, and if they can feel itchy, why would it be farfetched to think they can feel pain as well?


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## MyBettaJack (Sep 21, 2013)

That makes sense, also. One of those things we might never know the answer to. Hmm....


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

blufish425, that cannot be more true, if a fish can feel itching which obviously they can they can surely feel pain which is a more intense feeling.


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

veggiegirl said:


> blufish425, that cannot be more true, if a fish can feel itching which obviously they can they can surely feel pain which is a more intense feeling.


Yes that was my line of thinking as well. I don't believe they process pain the same that we do, humans have an emotional response to pain, tears, an increased fear of whatever caused the pain perhaps. I have also observed my bettas darting from a hot heater for example, and I don't believe they have an increased fear of the heater because they continue to do it, but I absolutely believe they can feel it.


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## veggiegirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Exactly my thoughts;-)


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## jaysee (Dec 9, 2009)

Lets look at it from a practical point of view..... What possible reason is there for a fish to feel pain??

Pain has a purpose, and it has a physiological effect. That effect has no benefit to the fish....which is why fish do not have the brain structure to support feeling pain. Form follows function. There is nothing extraneous in nature...

I can understand how it could be difficult to see a reaction and not associate feelings with it, especially for those that like to think that their fish have human characteristics, but reaction does not necessitate feeling.


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## rickey (Jul 7, 2013)

Unlike humans fish do not possess a neocortex, which is the first indicator of doubt regarding the pain awareness of fish. In this respect, the physiological prerequisites for a conscious experience of pain are hardly developed in fish. Bony fish certainly possess simple nociceptors and they do of course show reactions to injuries. But it is not known whether this is perceived as pain.

R


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## ao (Feb 29, 2012)

oh dear, another never ending topic 

Do fish feel pain? I have noooo idea 
But I try not to do anything that will hurt them, or stress them out 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## MyBettaJack (Sep 21, 2013)

Blufish425, I read about your battles against gill flukes and how hard it was on you and your fish. You really had to go to war! Great Job! I wanted to let you know I've learned a lot from you and appreciate you taking the time to comment and post on my threads, showing both compassion and knowledge. You walked me through losing Jack, ammonia poisoning, rescuing, and all the other neurotic questions that beginners like me have. Thank you!


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## blufish425 (Jul 29, 2013)

MyBettaJack said:


> Blufish425, I read about your battles against gill flukes and how hard it was on you and your fish. You really had to go to war! Great Job! I wanted to let you know I've learned a lot from you and appreciate you taking the time to comment and post on my threads, showing both compassion and knowledge. You walked me through losing Jack, ammonia poisoning, rescuing, and all the other neurotic questions that beginners like me have. Thank you!


 
Haha, ah yes, gill flukes are THE worst thing I have encountered thus far. And you are very welcome, I am always happy to help


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## PetMania (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't believe that my fish has "human characteristics". I think that they are living, breathing creatures who deserve a good home and TLC. IMO: if you can't provide that, then you should not own a pet.


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