# Tips for new mail-order frogbit?



## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

I got some frogbit that shipped pretty quickly, spent only 2 days in the mail. Its coming from the south, and Im in california (hard water). The main reason I picked it up is for its reputation for removing nitrates. My tank is only 2.5 gallons (with just my betta as the occupant).

I just opened the package and gave it a quick rinse under tap water and placed it in my tank. I did notice the roots are quite delicate, and that I had a few root segments floating loose in the tank which I removed.

I made sure that all bundles are floating face up, and most are fully floating, a few are only partially floating as if they aren't fully buoyant yet-do I need to worry about those? I've read frogbit may die if left submerged too long.


One final question-lighting. I've got a single 13 watt CFL over the tank, what kind of lighting regimen is appropriate for frogbit while its acclimating? I did read that high lighting can "burn" the plant-I doubt that will apply to me but does that mean a "burn" from high lighting, or from higher temps near lights?

Also in the tank, are a few lucky bamboo, a marimo ball, and an anubias.


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## Brendykins (Feb 26, 2016)

Hello Davo, 

That is super fast shipping, that is super nice! As for your 2 questions, I'll try and help the best I can. 

The currently non-floating plants should be fine if they aren't submerged super low (I.e below 3/4 of your tank). Some of your Frogbit may die while acclimating and that'll be okay as it grows very rapidly. 

Your lighting sounds fine, usually plants require a colour temperature of 6500K to succeed, but Frogbit is another story. The 13W I'll assume equivocates to 60W, which is plenty of wattage for your 2.5 gallon. The burning should apply to both wattage and colour temperature, if you stay at 6500K you should be fine for your other plants, you could go as low as 5500K if you feel that'd be much more beneficial for your Frogbit (in regard to burning). If your plants are thriving at what ever current colour temperature your CFL is currently emitting you should be fine. 

Your frogbit should be fine as it is super hard to kill (my one friend put it in a garbage bag with tap water and it still survived). Hopefully this was somewhat helpful.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

I've revived frogbit in the mail and sent it out successfully (according to buyers). It tends to look a little rough after shipping but will adapt to new waters and start new growth usually within 1-2weeks at the most. Inevitably not all leaves stay perfectly above water. As long as they aren't turning yellow/brown you don't need to worry about pruning them.
Frogbit can be sensitive about lighting burns, but also condensation if you have a lid. As for hard water, I also have hard water and it grows ok for me.
How high is your light above the water's surface? How long is the light on? What is the orientation of the bulb within the light fixture? Pointed downward its stronger lighting than if the cfl is sidways. Does the light fixture have a metal/shiny/white interior to reflect more light?
If your frogbit does not work out from light burns or condensation melt I'd suggest salvinia minima. Its a smaller leaf (and root) floater with a cat tongue like topside of leaf. Its very tolerant of strong light (I had a 13 watt cfl pointed down in a metallic reflector desk lamp right ontop of the lid-2-3" at most from salvinia on 7.5 hours a day.. no burns) and does not have an issue with condensation (all mine are in tanks with lids and lots of condensation dropping on them).
I actually need to thin my salvinia again as it grows really fast for me. I end up pruning and tossing out a lot of frogbit leaves due to condensation so it doesn't get thick enough to need to sell off as quickly as salvinia does.

Photos are from my old salvinia sale thread, tank is a 7g cube (11.8" dimensions)


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

That was helpful, thanks for that.

This morning I checked on the frogbit and its floating much higher (save for one leaf on one bunch that seems determined to point straight down).

The roots are flowing more as well, and my betta swims through them easily.
He also blew a bubble nest onto one bunch so thats nice.

Looking forward to watching this plant grow.


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

Aqua Aurora said:


> I've revived frogbit in the mail and sent it out successfully (according to buyers). It tends to look a little rough after shipping but will adapt to new waters and start new growth usually within 1-2weeks at the most. Inevitably not all leaves stay perfectly above water. As long as they aren't turning yellow/brown you don't need to worry about pruning them.
> Frogbit can be sensitive about lighting burns, but also condensation if you have a lid. As for hard water, I also have hard water and it grows ok for me.
> How high is your light above the water's surface? How long is the light on? What is the orientation of the bulb within the light fixture? Pointed downward its stronger lighting than if the cfl is sidways. Does the light fixture have a metal/shiny/white interior to reflect more light?
> If your frogbit does not work out from light burns or condensation melt I'd suggest salvinia minima. Its a smaller leaf (and root) floater with a cat tongue like topside of leaf. Its very tolerant of strong light (I had a 13 watt cfl pointed down in a metallic reflector desk lamp right ontop of the lid-2-3" at most from salvinia on 7.5 hours a day.. no burns) and does not have an issue with condensation (all mine are in tanks with lids and lots of condensation dropping on them).
> ...


When you say condensation is it drops of condensation repeatedly hitting a plant thats the issue? I do have a lid, but its not entirely covering the tank, as I have a lucky bamboo and a heater cord sticking into the tank in one corner. A few drops do accumulate on the lid and does fall into the tank when I remove it, but I rarely remove the lid, I just put food in through one of the gaps in the corners.

My light is vertically mounted (desklamp), and I put some foil behind it as the interior was black plastic. When it was just anarchis in the tank I had it right above the water, 1-2 inches above and it was getting pearling from the plants that were higher in the tank. Today I moved it back to about 4 inches above the tank but I can move it much higher if needed. I usually leave the light on 8-10 hours, but have been varying it as I read thats a good way to prevent the onset of algae. My goal is to get rapid growth of the frogbit and still be able to keep the anarchis alive as a backup incase something goes south. Lights only been going for about 30 minutes today. How can I recognize lighting burns if they start to develop?

In your second pic, if I was to eventually get to that density of coverage on the surface of my tank, would there be any issues with water oxygenation or my betta being able to get to the surface for air? I've watched mine and he's very good at getting to the surface even through a bunch of plants. As of now there is still plenty (most) of the tank open to the surface, but it would be good to know.

In that 3rd pic you posted, is that anacharis/elodea growing under the frogbit? Ive seen a few pics online of both growing well together which is a good sign. 

I have been reading a lot of good stuff about Salvinia, if the duckweed does not grow I think I will try it next. The reason I didn't start with it is because I have been doing full water changes about once a week, and I figured it would be easier to pull 8 or 10 bunches of larger duckweed out for those changes, compared to more of a smaller plant. It sounds like Salvinia may be more "sturdy" though. Floating plants are entirely new to me.


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

I have 1 tank I raised the lid on by using some foam to prop it up and let air in. I still get condensation but not as bad as my more sealed lids.. and the frogbit still gets drips which make it be a [censor] and go yellow/brown. But every layout/cut/air low is different so I can't give anything definitive from your lid description since mine is not like that to compare.
Where your light is at for height now sounds good, but I'm nto so sure varying photo period prevents algae, or no one would use light timers (and many many of the plantedtank community do). Its more about balancing light, co2, nutrients, adn nitrogen. Inbalances (too much of one/not enough of another) are what get algaes going.

edit: sorry posted before I was done

Plants will release oxygen through their roots and leaves (i recall reading that plants rooted in soil based tanks oxygenate the soil). So there should not be an oxygenation issue of teh water from having a lot of floaters. As for breathing, there are gaps in the plants and a betta can easily push them out of the way to make a hole to breath where he/she wants. In my 2g lantern tank the salvinia gets really thick and piled on top of itself, but my veiltail doesn't have breathing issues so I'd not be concerned. If you ware worried about a breathing spot/feeding spot you can do this user's DIY:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=245289&page=41#post7092234

No that's rotala rotundifolia, I no longer have that (these are older photos). And the photos are of salvinia minima not frogbit.


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

Aqua Aurora said:


> I have 1 tank I raised the lid on by using some foam to prop it up and let air in. I still get condensation but not as bad as my more sealed lids.. and the frogbit still gets drips which make it be a [censor] and go yellow/brown. But every layout/cut/air low is different so I can't give anything definitive from your lid description since mine is not like that to compare.
> Where your light is at for height now sounds good, but I'm nto so sure varying photo period prevents algae, or no one would use light timers (and many many of the plantedtank community do). Its more about balancing light, co2, nutrients, adn nitrogen. Inbalances (too much of one/not enough of another) are what get algaes going.
> 
> edit: sorry posted before I was done
> ...


Awesome thanks!


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

Just an update-the frogbit has been in the tank for a week now, and its already got new growth, both in the root structure, and in 5 or so new "runners" I think they are called-little mini groups of 2 or 3 leaves it looks like. I did have a few leaves turn yellow and I removed them.

I did a water test yesterday and nitrates are holding steady around 20 ppm which is about what the tap water here has.

Its kind of gratifying seeing new growth! The only issue is I have noticed some brown algae, which is new to the tank.


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

Well it seems like every day I look into the tank I notice something new with the frogbit.

A few plants look like they are growing a central leaf up out of the water, and today I notice one of them has what almost look like short roots sticking up into the air.

It looks like the one in the photo below. 










Is there anything special about this part? 
Does it have any significance for plant growth? The only downside, is tommorow Im doing a water change and I fill the tank close to the lid, and this is hitting it. I dont want it to submerge the rest of the plant.


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## Davo (Feb 21, 2016)

Bumping this for another question...Ive noticed some of my frogbits roots are getting very long, they are running along the bottom of the tank-I'd guess over a foot in length.

Just wondering If I was to trim them a bit, would that be harmful to the plants?


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