# Female being a creeper..



## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Just wanted your opinions on this..

Female is fat with eggs, male has been building a nest that is quite large now. She keeps watching him like a weirdo. If he comes near her she goes head down but shes nowhere near the nest so the male is just irritated and swims away. She was following him to the nest but he kept chasing her off and now she is just watching like a creeper. I have another suitable female that has breeding stripes after being jarred in the tank with them. Have you guys ever just switched out females with any rate of success? This female is submissive to him and he's kind of aggressive without being violent, should I just leave them together and hope she comes out? I might have seen one awkward embrace earlier, not sure. They're been together for about 7 hours now and have been going through all the normal chasing, nest building, etc. I thought she was hiding TOO WELL so I removed some of the fake plants so she can at least see him and he can find her every once in awhile.

They're in a heated 10 gal filled 4 or maybe 5 inches. Earlier I placed another male next to their tank and let them "fight" for about 15 mins and then removed the second male in his tank which didn't do much. I'm going to go get some decaffienated green tea to add to their tank since I don't have any IAL, they were both conditioned for weeks and are healthy.

Any ideas/help? It's a little frustrating to watch.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Organic decaf green tea bad now floating in the spawn tank, I guess I'll just remove it when the water is dark unless someone lets me know otherwise!


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

Sorry Green Tea, I can't really help you.
My female was sorta like that, I ended up leaving her in with him overnight, kept it nice and dark and in the morning when I woke up they were embracing.
Hope all works out


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

How long have they been together?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Now they've been together about 9 hours


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

U can't rush the fish to breed...
Some can take a few hours...
Some will take days....


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## BeautifulBetta (Nov 12, 2011)

Yea I've had fish together for days before they finally got to it! Don't give up just yet  lol..I usually put the female back in her little floaty tank while I was asleep so I didn't wake up to find her dead. Not everyone does that, i'm just overly cautious LOL


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Alright. Do you all recommend I just keep them together unless they become totally disinterested or totally violent?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I've added another tea bag for tannins and switched the females as they were no longer shower interest in one another and kind of floating together. I switched the nest and hiding spots and have a new female in a vase. She barred up immediately upon seeing him. She was sold to me as a hmpk but has quite large fins so I wonder. She flared and him for a bit and now they are wiggling together and sometimes she ignores him. Here is a photo of the pair, just looking for opinions and experiences.


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## Dead Sunlight (Jun 14, 2010)

I would leave them in for a bit more, but if either or both become aggresive or show litle to no signs for intrest, I would remove them and if you still want to breed, perhaps find another male(or use the other female), (yes, they have to be conditioned again, even though shes got her eggs) i would have bought a few pairs- some pairs just dont work, as seen between us humans. be sure to pm me for questions.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I have many pairs, and 3 or 4 females who would go great with this male alone as well, I've been prepping for months so it's a little frustrating!

Thanks for your comment, sorry that came off as a little cranky. Kind of frustrated. I got my giant hmpks to spawn only to have dad eat the eggs and now everyone else shows signs but the connection isnt made. I'm just going to leave this pair alone and check on them to make sure they aren't killing each other. She's a good deal smaller than this male but quite cheeky. I appreciate your comment, I think some sleep is in order for me. Also I don't think we've talked so nice to sort of meet you.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Just came back from drinking...
So if I don't make sense dont mind me...
From the pic...
The female is not ready to breed...
Her head is not lower to the ground...
And her fin is still open....
Sign that you look for in a female...
Lowering her head...
With fin close and willing to follow the male...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

Why are you trying to rush spawning? They ALL sound normal and IMO will eventually spawn. Just give them time. 

I currently have a pair of first time breeders together since yesterday. The female is getting beaten up quite a bit though half the tank is filled with plants. But I'm letting nature take its course because both are still in the breeding mode. Yes the female hides most of the time (IMO she is not aggressive enough). But it's normal. I'm guessing this pair might take a long time before they actually spawn..... they're very young - male is over 3 months and the female is over 4 months (young giants).

Try to be more patient and let them do their thing. Good hide outs might postpone spawning. But it's safer for the female - specially if you have a very aggressive/vicious male.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm not trying to rush it..I'm just still new and my first spawn happened in a few hours which I thought was normal, now it seems I hear that it taking a few days is more normal.

It's just stressful because I don't want the female to get killed if left in too long you know? And all that and although I've done lots of research and asked people, reading their signs can still be a little challenging at times. I feel more at ease about it now since it can take longer.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Don't feel bad about it....
Even people with lot of breed under ther belt still have problem.....
I have a pair in the breeding tank for a week...
There still not breeding....


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

GreenTea said:


> I'm not trying to rush it..I'm just still new and my first spawn happened in a few hours which I thought was normal, now it seems I hear that it taking a few days is more normal.
> 
> It's just stressful because I don't want the female to get killed if left in too long you know? And all that and although I've done lots of research and asked people, reading their signs can still be a little challenging at times. I feel more at ease about it now since it can take longer.


Sorry, my mistake.
The general guide; if the female remains colored, she is willing to spawn - usually with breeding bars. And the male should always swim back and forth between female and nest. 

Less aggressive/low esteem females will likely get beaten up more than aggressive females. Perhaps the male is frustrated because she is not following him - not sure. If you know your betta's character, try using less vicious males for these females.

If the female is not moving much and weak, always on the surface or floor, take her out although she is still colored up with bars. Though she may spawn, but she may also die afterwards due to her injuries.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Plus ready to spawn and willing to spawn is two different thing....
Some female will refuse to breed with some male....
If they don't like each other...
You can do everything right...
They won't breed....
Younger female are more willing to spawn then older one...
The fastest was 10 minute after releasing the female...
The longest was two week....
A lot of none spawning pair...


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

My experience is the opposite. Younger females are harder or take longer to breed than older ones. Even 1yr old females would breed faster - older females are more aggressive, they don't wait for the male to approach. They would take charge of everything until the male begins biting.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

It's ok Indjo, I know you weren't commenting to me maliciously. Now the female is near the nest and the male is less aggressive with her but he has stopped tending to his nest and it's falling apart a bit. Should I just leave them together for a few more days and see how it goes as long as they are not being very aggressive with each other? The water has been tanned pretty deeply by tea at this point and the water is warm and humid.


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Never try breeding year old female...
The age That I like to breed the female is 4-7 month old...
Yes older female will take charge...
Or even go head on with the male...
If the male is a young male that she breeding to...
And he can over power her...
He'll run...
If he run..
It's over for that male breeding career


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## indjo (Jun 6, 2010)

You might have used too much tannin - not sure. But if male had a good nest but then not tending to it, IMO you should recondition him because there might be something wrong with him. ..... keep an eye on him.


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## Dead Sunlight (Jun 14, 2010)

I understand your frusturation. I may be 14, but I'm one of the best breeders at the IBC, it's kind of like my award-winning MG pair, but remember this, just because we may view a pair as "perfect" doesn't mean the pair is right.
In your situation, I think that either time will tell, as you know some spawns may take mere hours or days to begin an embrace, or I believe that the pair just isn't right. Be it the latter, I advice you check in on the pair every few hours (at this time, I would advise not to bother the pair too much, as they may not be spawning due to stress). Be keen, however: if one or both seem uninterested or hostile (in a non-courting way), the pair is most likely uncompatible. At this time you should remove and recondition with a different mate. If any courting signs are visible, keep the pair together for a bit more, as well as watching them like a hawk. Every pair is different when it comes to spawning, at this time I can only tell you to be pacient. Be sure to P.M me for additional questions.

(How thick and large is the bubblenest? A good size should be about an inch thick and 3-4 inches wide)

Don't provide TOO much cover for the female; all I have in my spawning tanks is a heather, sponge filter, and a clump of java moss. In absense of live plants, I usually put in a single clay flower pot.


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Ok thanks, the water was pretty murky so I replaced half of it and they began courting again. The nest is a few inches wide, was bigger and thicker before. I'm just leaving them alone and watching from the other room. It seems like the male is just spacing out now, the female is ready by the nest..She has her bars back too


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## Curlyfatbottom (Sep 29, 2011)

Good luck...
U sound like me when I first start breed...
Was so anxious to see them breed...
Now I just let them b...
And if it happen it happen...


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

This is the situation now - removed both, did a water change keeping whats left of the nest intact. The male seems to have lost his focus and is just playing in the plants -_-

The female was literally sitting under the nest head down with bars showing for hours and he's like la la la la java moss you are so fun la la la

So I've jarred her now hoping he'll start a new nest and get his focus back.


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## Dead Sunlight (Jun 14, 2010)

haha, cute <3

I'm starting to think that its stress thats postponing the spawn, as you removing them, replacing the water, moving decor around, etc. in this situation, what i do i wrap a dark blanket or cover the tank with a sheet, with little to no light on. this might help them relax a bit.


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Bad fishy! Get your focus back, bud. lol


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Well he did and then built a huge nest but then I released her and they kinda hung out together for a few days...she was ready, he wasn't. I scrapped it after I saw him relentlessly chasing her after a few days. Trying the shock method next..


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oh  Sorry to hear it didn't work out this time round. Hopefully next time


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah...OFL suggested it could be their age as well...They're only 4 months, maybe a bit younger. She suggested in about a month or two things might be better.


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## Gloria (Sep 22, 2011)

oh. Is still a shame though.. Are you going to wait 1-2 moths before you retry then?


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

I have a giant pair embracing right now! I just saw them do it twice and then she hid again, practice makes perfect guys! If anyone is still following this thread I'll update it - or does anyone want to see the pair?


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'd love to see the pair.


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## purplemuffin (Aug 12, 2010)

Aww maybe they are just a little too young. It's like the awkward teen dating years..awwhh :lol: they'll figure it out eventually, but it'll be a bumpy ride, LOL


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## Dead Sunlight (Jun 14, 2010)

Congrats GreenTea, yes it is true, practice makes perfect  that's why im the proud head momma of 515 bettas!  <3


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## GreenTea (Jan 31, 2011)

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=86201

Here's the thread with a video of the giant pair spawning, female was removed and in good health, dad was tending to the nest when I left and hadn't eaten the eggs, I'll get back home Sunday afternoon, hope there are some fry! Thanks for the encouragement and support all


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## dramaqueen (Jul 7, 2008)

Very nice video! He was so good with her.


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