# struggling dorm room betta owner



## atraf (Oct 7, 2014)

I recently purchased a beautiful betta for my dorm room with all the proper supplies (besides a heater since I live in an already warm place). However, the tank I purchased in only a gallon, and the suggested 2.5 gallon tank is a little too big for me to own at the moment. Is there any way I can combat this smaller sized tank?


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

just change his water like every day or every two days, and give him lots of plants to hide in, also get a thermometer and see if the temp chages alot throught the day, if it does then you need a heater.


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## atraf (Oct 7, 2014)

kjg1029 said:


> just change his water like every day or every two days, and give him lots of plants to hide in, also get a thermometer and see if the temp chages alot throught the day, if it does then you need a heater.


If I change it daily, will that stress my fish out?


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## juanitawolf (May 12, 2014)

hello Atraf...about the water changes stressing your fish it all depends...what is the method you use for changing his water?
i have a gallon tank too and i change the water every two days. this is what i do and it have worked for me 
-put a plastic cup in the tank and wait for him to swim in 
-take him out and transfer him to a bigger cup
-in the bigger cup you feed him or give him a treat like bloodworms
-after you are done, just pour out as much of the old water before putting your fish back (you wont like any of that awful water back into your tank)

i find this less stressing for my fish since he starts to think that water changes = food...my boy Magnus swims right into the cup! and doesnt even lose color!


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

You should be changing the water every day or every other in a 1 gallon. Yes this is going to stress the fish out but it is more stressful for him to be in ammonia filled tank since ammonia poisons him. 

Also you need a heater, unless you live in a tropical country next to the equator. Do you have a thermometer in the tank? If you don't, then how do you know if the water is warm enough? Room temperature (especially in dorms) changes a lot during the course of just one day. temperature fluctuations are just as bad as cold water. Bettas need water that is 78-80 degrees, so that would be your dorm would have to be in the 80s all the time even at night. So bottom line, get a heater. 

You really should upgrade his tank - even if just to a 2 gallon. 

Petco/Petsmart sells Kritter Keepers (Pet Keepers) for very cheap. The large size is 3 gallons and cost $15.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

The best thing you can do is purchase some API Ammonia Test strips. Test every day and when Ammonia approaches .25 ppm change the water. After a couple of weeks you should see a pattern. The water change schedule, IMO, should be based on Ammonia reading to avoid doing more than necessary.

If you keep a water-filled gallon jug in the vicinity of his tank you shouldn't have to worry about temperature differential between the two.

I think Juanitawolf has a great idea on making water changes less stressful.

Well-maintained one-gallons are fine for Betta. Just make sure you keep up with those water changes because the smaller the tank the faster things can go South.

Cheapest I've found:
API Ammonia Test Strip Kit | eBay


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## bluenail (Jul 23, 2014)

Also, feed the betta in the cup while you are doing the water change, if you over feed the excess food will be in the cup, not the tank AND the betta will learn to start swimming right into the cup for his food!


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

Are you not able to get a 2.5 because of dorm rules or space restrictions? 
You can get a 2g Anchor Hocking cookie jar at walmart for $10 that's about 10" wide, 14" tall. smaller footprint than a 2.5 but better than just a 1g. 
If you have a Hang On Back filter though I'd advice against the jar, you'd need a sponge filter (and air pump) for it as the curved tip rim is not HOB conducive.


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

ive been craving one of thoose jars >.<^


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## Aqua Aurora (Oct 4, 2013)

kjg1029 said:


> ive been craving one of thoose jars >.<^


I'm using one, love it! Got several months ago for my birthday (by request aka heavy hinting)


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## atraf (Oct 7, 2014)

Everyone, thank you for all the advice! I will make sure to change his water often until I'm able to get the bigger tank. Should I be using a cup or a net to remove my fish from his tank? The net really freaks him out, so I'd love it if there was an easier way.

Also, I really like that jar, so I will most likely be getting that


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

you can use a cup, just scoop him out of the tank.


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## Matilda (Apr 25, 2012)

When I have to take one of my boys out I use a clear plastic cup & sneak up on them!


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## Schmoo (Oct 3, 2014)

atraf said:


> Should I be using a cup or a net to remove my fish from his tank? The net really freaks him out, so I'd love it if there was an easier way.


I kept the plastic cup Mace came in, and I've been using that to scoop him out of his tank (well, the other tank but details, details). I gave him a few pellets afterwards to sate him. Also, I'm hoping it'll work like Classical Conditioning and make water changes easy and stress-free for him.


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## Lergannn (Sep 16, 2014)

When I was younger I had a crowntail betta in a walmart 1 gallon, air filtered $10 tank. It has an air pump that acts as a filter with a plastic base.. I changed the water a couple times a month and that fish lived 10 years, make sure to use water conditioner though. You really don't need to change it everyday..


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I will politely disagree. 

Buy an ammonia test and test the water - ammonia should never rise about .25ppm. 

Bettas are hardy fish, however their life expediency is around 5-7 years not 10. you are exaggerating. and just because your fish lived doesn't mean that your fish thrived. you are in a betta forum where most of the members want the very best for their fish. 

basically the fish you had when you were younger was swimming in a poison water and probably suffering. Its kind of a shame your parents didn't do research on how you should take care of bettas. 

so yes, in a 1 gallon you should be doing a water change at least every other day to keep the ammonia levels down since ammonia is poison to fish.


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## Lergannn (Sep 16, 2014)

I didn't disagree one water changing, or say my fish was thriving. And I did have access to the internet then, and did my research. The fish was healthy, made bubble nests (happy) and was energetic every time he saw me. In no way am I saying fish should be kept like that, I'm saying standards some people post on here aren't necessary.. Don't take this in offence as it is just my opinion. :-?


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

also bubble nests mean nothing. even sick fish make them. Bettas make them because they are bored, because they want to, because it is time to breed, because they want to mark their territory. Its a myth that bubble nests mean happy.


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## atraf (Oct 7, 2014)

I've been changing his water about every two days now. It hasn't been too difficult because I've been leaving conditioned water in a clean gallon jug. I'm still struggling with taking him out though. I tried using the plastic cup he came in but it didn't work too well and I had to use the net. Honenstly, I think its just my fear of hurting him so I always pull away when he starts trying to get away. Is it better to just go for it? Also, since its a small bowl should I take out all his plants before removing him?


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## Schmoo (Oct 3, 2014)

You could try using the net to herd him into the cup?


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## Lergannn (Sep 16, 2014)

When I perform water changes I put a pellet of food above a net, and scoop them up gently into the holding container.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

The food idea is good. When i used to remove my fish for water changes i used to distract them with my hand or a mirror to one side of the tank and then sneak up behind them with the cup and scoop them.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

VivianKJean said:


> also bubble nests mean nothing. even sick fish make them. Bettas make them because they are bored, because they want to, because it is time to breed, because they want to mark their territory. Its a myth that bubble nests mean happy.


Do you have personal experience w/ that bubble nests don't mean happy? Because when my female was happy, she bubble-nested! I know she was happy, I could tell!


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## kjg1029 (Jun 14, 2014)

hold the cup in the water, and put a few pellets in the cup, so he has to swim in to eat it, thaTs what I do in big tanks.

and I've been told that bettas can't exactly be "happy". And I've seen sick bettas blow bubbles,and if he was sick and in a tiny cup, then how could he be happy?


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Huh? I don't understand what you mean, they can't be "happy"


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

My SBD fish that I rescue from pet store cups blow bubble nests...perhaps they are happy to be in a nice heated 5 gallon with clean water, but they certainly aren't healthy yet! Bubble nests do not always equal healthy!

I've also seen fish in tiny, dirty, cold cups in petstores blow bubble nests. I think it's more of an instinctual thing.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Fish are not "happy" in the way humans are happy any more than they are "sad." They react to their environment and by conditioning. When they see us they react excitedly because our appearance usually means food. Saying they are "happy" when they see us is anthropromorphizing.

Betta blow bubbles for all sorts of reasons (most rooted in the instinct to survive) as stated above. "Happy" is not one of them.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

NO! I do not agree w/ you. . .I think fish, as with every living being, has feelings just as much as we do! It is not like a machine.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> Fish are not "happy" in the way humans are happy any more than they are "sad." They react to their environment and by conditioning. When they see us they react excitedly because our appearance usually means food. Saying they are "happy" when they see us is anthropromorphizing.
> 
> Betta blow bubbles for all sorts of reasons (most rooted in the instinct to survive) as stated above. "Happy" is not one of them.


 
I couldn't have said it better! Too many people anthropormorphize aninmals and it doesn't do the animal any good. Just the human to think that.

It'ss the same thing with cats. A cat purrs, people think it's happy and contented. however cats purr if they are in pain as well. the purring / vibrations is a kind of "pain reliever". I saw many do this when i helped in a vet's office years ago.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

Hmmm...I'd have to disagree with the statement that animals cannot be happy. 

For instance, where do you draw the line? Can a monkey be happy? A dog? A hamster? A fish? A snail? The delineation between animals and humans is largely artificial. Sure, we have the highest intelligence in the animal kingdom, but we all evolved from a common ancestor just the same. Be it a cat or a human, a kidney is a kidney, a stomach is a stomach, and a heart is a heart. We have more commonalities with animals than differences, so why would brain function be any different? Undoubtedly there are different levels of consciousness - I think we could all agree that a chimpanzee has a higher capacity for thought than a mussel - but I fail to see why some types of animals could not have evolved to the point of having emotions. If that is so, then humans are the prototype of an entirely novel trait - this is not often seen in nature!

I think that when pondering the extent of consciousness, it is more helpful to think of animals and humans as existing along a continuum, with simple organisms such as bacteria at the low end and humans at the high end. This is, after all, the way that life evolved on the planet, and such a view allows us to evaluate animal species separately rather than lumping all non-human creatures into a single category (does a snail really belong in the same category as a dolphin anyway?). 

Also, it is hard to really prove that animals do or don't have emotions, so all of our speculation is just that: speculation! Now, I'd say it is reasonable to assert that a mussle, with no true central nervous system, doesn't experience emotions as we know them. However, it is certainly possible that an animal with a functioning brain could experience them, as the brain is the source of emotions. We simply don't know, but I don't think it helps anything to automatically write off the possibility. Honestly, and this is not directed at anyone on this site, I find that people tend to say that animals don't have emotions to justify treating them in substandard ways. The same thing goes for pain....but that's a whole other can of worms or me! Suffice to say that if an animal didn't feel pain, would the species ever have survived (think about what would happen if injury didn't produce any negative stimulus)?


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

Pain is nuerotical. Meaning you feel pain based on your nervous system. Happiness is an emotion from the brain. Science knows that other animals have highly emotional lives - orcas for example. However, there is not scientific research to if fish species like Bettas have emotional lives. Bettas have personalities so we can infer that they have some emotional intellengence. This conversation started over bubblenests though and scientifically we do know that bettas make bubble nests for all sorts of reasons. I've seen bettas make them in those tiny little Petco/Petsmart cups where we know a betta isn't happy because those cups have dangerous ammonia levels.

Bottom line - bubble nests to do tell us if a betta is happy or not. 

I do think as fish keepers we should be more concerned with if our fish are healthy and if our fish are in water with low levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.


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## RussellTheShihTzu (Mar 19, 2013)

Kim said:


> Hmmm...I'd have to disagree with the statement that animals cannot be happy. <<snip>>


I reread every post in this thread and no where did anyone say animals can't be happy. If the above refers particularly to my post it misrepresents what was said as I never stated animals can't be happy; nor that they don't have emotions. I said fish don't have emotions _in the way humans have emotions_. Is my fish "happy" to see me come home after a week's absence in the way I am to see my husband after he's been on a trip? I think not. 

And, caveat side, "I find that people tend to say that animals don't have emotions to justify treating them in substandard ways" is a broad and unfair assertion.

And +1 VivianKJean


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

kjg1029 said:


> and I've been told that bettas can't exactly be "happy". And I've seen sick bettas blow bubbles,and if he was sick and in a tiny cup, then how could he be happy?


This is the post I was referring to about fish not being able to be "happy." It was something that someone had been told and reported here, not what anyone on the forum said. I was simply responding to this statement, as I've heard the same thing being said elsewhere as well.


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## Kim (Apr 30, 2008)

RussellTheShihTzu said:


> I reread every post in this thread and no where did anyone say animals can't be happy. If the above refers particularly to my post it misrepresents what was said as I never stated animals can't be happy; nor that they don't have emotions. I said fish don't have emotions _in the way humans have emotions_. Is my fish "happy" to see me come home after a week's absence in the way I am to see my husband after he's been on a trip? I think not.
> 
> And, caveat side, "I find that people tend to say that animals don't have emotions to justify treating them in substandard ways" is a broad and unfair assertion.
> 
> And +1 VivianKJean


For the first part of this post, see my comment above. It was not in reply to your comment RusselTheShihTzu.

As for the second part, you cut out the part of my sentence that said "and this is not directed at anyone on this forum," which is crucial to any interpretation of my remark. I specifically said that I was NOT attacking anyone here. To expand upon this point, I've often heard remarks about animals not having emotions used to justify whipping/beating horses, keeping bettas in tiny bowls, and a whole slew of other inhumane activities. The word "tend" was also used in this sentence to imply that not all people use arguments about animals not having emotions to justify bad behavior. The sentence you quoted meant exactly what it said: I find (in my experience) that people tend to say that animals don't have emotions to justify treating them in substandard ways. This has been my experience, and I was just reporting it. I was not implying that everyone does this.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Happiness does not always come from the brain. That is a human's way of thinking because HUMANS are so brain-oriented. The heart is where your feelings so often come from. A heart is where you feel love; therefore, since fish do not have as highly developed brains but DO have developed hearts, then that means they can experience strong love for another being. If a fish loves a human, I don't see why they wouldn't be deeply happy to see their human come back from a trip. Have you ever had a betta Russeltheshihtzu? If so, I don't see why you can't get that a betta can truly be happy! Every living being has the capability to love, be loved, be happy, be sad, & feel pain. Those capabilities are not denied any living thing. While true, it is not good to say that animals are just like humans in emotions, you'r also doing the same thing by saying things like "the betta made a bubble nest in a cup" because I doubt that a betta LIKES being in a cup, some people (and animals) can find happiness anywhere. Some people (though rarely) are happy in jail. So how do you know that a betta isn't trying to find happiness within themselves, not in their invornment.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

Kim said:


> This is the post I was referring to about fish not being able to be "happy." It was something that someone had been told and reported here, not what anyone on the forum said. I was simply responding to this statement, as I've heard the same thing being said elsewhere as well.


 
There seems to be some misunderstanding about a betta being "happy" and anthropormorphizing.

"HAPPY" is a term, we as HUMANS have MADE UP. nothing more. It is a way to describe how WE, as humans feel. We cannot apply this to an animal.

If a fish could speak to you, he would not tell you he is happy, as he has no idea what "happy" is. Therefore we cannot ascribe to a betta or any other animal, that he is happy.

Until we have a breakthrough in human-betta communication, (and i am not referring to a betta wiggling around looking at you from his tank--you still do not know exactly what he is communicating 100%) we cannot push a human term on a betta and say that he is happy.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

VivianKJean said:


> Pain is nuerotical. Meaning you feel pain based on your nervous system. Happiness is an emotion from the brain. Science knows that other animals have highly emotional lives - orcas for example. However, there is not scientific research to if fish species like Bettas have emotional lives. Bettas have personalities so we can infer that they have some emotional intellengence. This conversation started over bubblenests though and scientifically we do know that bettas make bubble nests for all sorts of reasons. I've seen bettas make them in those tiny little Petco/Petsmart cups where we know a betta isn't happy because those cups have dangerous ammonia levels.
> 
> Bottom line - bubble nests to do tell us if a betta is happy or not.
> 
> I do think as fish keepers we should be more concerned with if our fish are healthy and if our fish are in water with low levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.


+1. The best that can be applied to a betta is that he is a sentient being. He sees, and feels his surroundings and from that he adjusts how he acts. If his water and environment are healthy and clean, he is more likely to respond to outside stimuli and be more active. When condition aren't right, he will act slow and/or ill. 

A betta is urged on by nature, to build a bubble nest for procreating and furthering the species. Not more than this.


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## Reccka (Jul 20, 2014)

TerriGtoo said:


> There seems to be some misunderstanding about a betta being "happy" and anthropormorphizing.
> 
> "HAPPY" is a term, we as HUMANS have MADE UP. nothing more. It is a way to describe how WE, as humans feel. We cannot apply this to an animal.
> 
> ...


+1 Anthropomorphizing does NO animal any good. An animal will be happiest when it is treated like what it is and not a little miniature human. A fish is a fish and a human is a human. One is not inherently better than the other, but they are totally different creatures. We will never truly understand how other animals perceive their world, what and if they "feel" because we will never be that animal. NO animal feels in the way that a human feels. Just like how a betta also does not feel like a salmon feels, or a dolphin, or a monkey. I feel that all different species of animals experience emotion in different ways that we as humans can never fully comprehend.


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## lostkavi (Oct 16, 2014)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> Happiness does not always come from the brain. That is a human's way of thinking because HUMANS are so brain-oriented. _*The heart is where your feelings so often come from.*_ A heart is where you feel love; therefore, since fish do not have as highly developed brains but DO have developed hearts, then that means they can experience strong love for another being. <snip>


I have to fundementally disagree with this. The heart is a self-contained organ, dedicated to pumping blood. It has no actual input on neurological function at all - to the point where it will even keep working at a steady (60?) beats per minute even if the brain doesn't tell it to. It actually will keep beating _outside _of the body, on a desk, if it's supplied with oxygen and enough ATP to keep the muscles functioning. The brain and the central nervous system are entirely responsible for all emotional response through an extremely intricate electrochemical network that isn't wholly understood yet. The first account of people thinking we 'felt from the heart' wasn't until the Greeks started practicing medicine (I think - might be wrong there), and they believe this because of the effects that surges of dopamine and serotonin (amongst others) have on the chest cavity. They don't *actually* have any effect, our brain just thinks they do. It's all in our heads. We don't do any thinking at all with our hearts, it's all a metaphor.

By extension, a fish, or any other animal, doesn't feel anything with their hearts. That does NOT mean that they are incapable of feeling anything, as even the most basic forms of intelligence require some motivation to seek out food, shelter, mates, etc etc etc. If these catagories are filled, a creatuer can be said to be 'happy'. It's certainly not happy in the way we know happy, but it is happy in contrast to 'unhappy', in which these needs are not met. The extent to which these emotions are prevelent depends on the organism in question, but I highly doubt that betta's can 'love' anything, much less love as we know it, Jim. It's a safe assumption that they're more interested in "hmm, yes, you will make good babies." rather than any sort of romantic involvement of any kind, considering they're hardly monogamous creatures.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

reccka said:


> +1 anthropomorphizing does no animal any good. An animal will be happiest when it is treated like what it is and not a little miniature human. A fish is a fish and a human is a human. One is not inherently better than the other, but they are totally different creatures. We will never truly understand how other animals perceive their world, what and if they "feel" because we will never be that animal. No animal feels in the way that a human feels. Just like how a betta also does not feel like a salmon feels, or a dolphin, or a monkey. I feel that all different species of animals experience emotion in different ways that we as humans can never fully comprehend.


+100%


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

lostkavi said:


> I have to fundementally disagree with this. The heart is a self-contained organ, dedicated to pumping blood. It has no actual input on neurological function at all - to the point where it will even keep working at a steady (60?) beats per minute even if the brain doesn't tell it to. It actually will keep beating _outside _of the body, on a desk, if it's supplied with oxygen and enough ATP to keep the muscles functioning. The brain and the central nervous system are entirely responsible for all emotional response through an extremely intricate electrochemical network that isn't wholly understood yet. The first account of people thinking we 'felt from the heart' wasn't until the Greeks started practicing medicine (I think - might be wrong there), and they believe this because of the effects that surges of dopamine and serotonin (amongst others) have on the chest cavity. They don't *actually* have any effect, our brain just thinks they do. It's all in our heads. We don't do any thinking at all with our hearts, it's all a metaphor.
> 
> By extension, a fish, or any other animal, doesn't feel anything with their hearts. That does NOT mean that they are incapable of feeling anything, as even the most basic forms of intelligence require some motivation to seek out food, shelter, mates, etc etc etc. If these catagories are filled, a creatuer can be said to be 'happy'. It's certainly not happy in the way we know happy, but it is happy in contrast to 'unhappy', in which these needs are not met. The extent to which these emotions are prevelent depends on the organism in question, but I highly doubt that betta's can 'love' anything, much less love as we know it, Jim. It's a safe assumption that they're more interested in "hmm, yes, you will make good babies." rather than any sort of romantic involvement of any kind, considering they're hardly monogamous creatures.


 
+100% again.


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

TerriGtoo said:


> Until we have a breakthrough in human-betta communication, we cannot push a human term on a betta and say that he is happy.


YOU, Terri, JUST PUSHED A TERM ON A BETTA TO SAY THAT "if a betta could speak he would tell you he doesn't know what happy is." If you don't communicate w/ bettas, HOW THE HECK CAN YOU KNOW THIS!?


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

lostkavi said:


> I have to fundementally disagree with this. The heart is a self-contained organ, dedicated to pumping blood. It has no actual input on neurological function at all - to the point where it will even keep working at a steady (60?) beats per minute even if the brain doesn't tell it to. It actually will keep beating _outside _of the body, on a desk, if it's supplied with oxygen and enough ATP to keep the muscles functioning. The brain and the central nervous system are entirely responsible for all emotional response through an extremely intricate electrochemical network that isn't wholly understood yet. The first account of people thinking we 'felt from the heart' wasn't until the Greeks started practicing medicine (I think - might be wrong there), and they believe this because of the effects that surges of dopamine and serotonin (amongst others) have on the chest cavity. They don't *actually* have any effect, our brain just thinks they do. It's all in our heads. We don't do any thinking at all with our hearts, it's all a metaphor.
> 
> By extension, a fish, or any other animal, doesn't feel anything with their hearts. That does NOT mean that they are incapable of feeling anything, as even the most basic forms of intelligence require some motivation to seek out food, shelter, mates, etc etc etc. If these catagories are filled, a creatuer can be said to be 'happy'. It's certainly not happy in the way we know happy, but it is happy in contrast to 'unhappy', in which these needs are not met. The extent to which these emotions are prevelent depends on the organism in question, but I highly doubt that betta's can 'love' anything, much less love as we know it, Jim. It's a safe assumption that they're more interested in "hmm, yes, you will make good babies." rather than any sort of romantic involvement of any kind, considering they're hardly monogamous creatures.





Reccka said:


> +1 Anthropomorphizing does NO animal any good. An animal will be happiest when it is treated like what it is and not a little miniature human. A fish is a fish and a human is a human. One is not inherently better than the other, but they are totally different creatures. We will never truly understand how other animals perceive their world, what and if they "feel" because we will never be that animal. NO animal feels in the way that a human feels. Just like how a betta also does not feel like a salmon feels, or a dolphin, or a monkey. I feel that all different species of animals experience emotion in different ways that we as humans can never fully comprehend.





TerriGtoo said:


> There seems to be some misunderstanding about a betta being "happy" and anthropormorphizing.
> 
> "HAPPY" is a term, we as HUMANS have MADE UP. nothing more. It is a way to describe how WE, as humans feel. We cannot apply this to an animal.
> 
> ...



+10000000000000000000000000000000000000 to all of these


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## MiriamandMoonlight (May 31, 2014)

Actually, I decided to just start to tell you how I know this. I know it seems crazy to those who are not ready to except it. But, I feel that it is real since many very sophisticated adults can do it. I have started to communicate with animals. So, it's not just for bettas, it's for all animals; but fish too. I think it's interesting that you said "untill we have a breakthrough of animal communication" because I do that with bettas. Tell me if you'd like to know more!


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## lostkavi (Oct 16, 2014)

Kim said:


> Hmmm...I'd have to disagree with the statement that animals cannot be happy.
> 
> For instance, where do you draw the line? Can a monkey be happy? A dog? A hamster? A fish? A snail? The delineation between animals and humans is largely artificial. Sure, we have the highest intelligence in the animal kingdom, but we all evolved from a common ancestor just the same. Be it a cat or a human, a kidney is a kidney, a stomach is a stomach, and a heart is a heart. We have more commonalities with animals than differences, so why would brain function be any different? Undoubtedly there are different levels of consciousness - I think we could all agree that a chimpanzee has a higher capacity for thought than a mussel - but I fail to see why some types of animals could not have evolved to the point of having emotions. If that is so, then humans are the prototype of an entirely novel trait - this is not often seen in nature!
> 
> ...


98% this. A kidney is not always a kidney, nor is a stomch always a stomach  Everything else, spot on.


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## MikeG14 (May 31, 2014)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> Actually, I decided to just start to tell you how I know this. I know it seems crazy to those who are not ready to except it. But, I feel that it is real since many very sophisticated adults can do it. I have started to communicate with animals. So, it's not just for bettas, it's for all animals; but fish too. I think it's interesting that you said "untill we have a breakthrough of animal communication" because I do that with bettas. Tell me if you'd like to know more!



Too easy. I'm gonna go have a bottle of Yoo-Hoo and keep my mouth shut.


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## lostkavi (Oct 16, 2014)

MikeG14 said:


> Too easy. I'm gonna go have a bottle of Yoo-Hoo and keep my mouth shut.


Believe me - it's for the best.


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## TerriGtoo (Jul 2, 2013)

MiriamandMoonlight said:


> YOU, Terri, JUST PUSHED A TERM ON A BETTA TO SAY THAT "if a betta could speak he would tell you he doesn't know what happy is." If you don't communicate w/ bettas, HOW THE HECK CAN YOU KNOW THIS!?


 
Honey, listen, I do not mean to be disrespectful but you do have alot of years of education in front of you. You are not understanding what we are saying.
I believe you said you were 12? You are trying to understand alot of people who are much older than you and have learned alot in their years on this earth. i am sorry but I do not know how to explain this so you aren't taking everything we say literally.


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## VivianKJean (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm going to take Mike's approach and keep my mouth shut since I have much to say but I know that it will get me nowhere since there is a difference maturity. I will say that there are a lot of older members on this forum who are extremely well educated and i do think this forum is more intended for people of legal age or close to legal age. All others should use this forum with parental supervision. 

but may I say that this thread started with the OP wondering how to keep a small tank clean until they can get a larger tank so why don't we stick to that and people can take the other topics to private message or start another thread or better yet, just drop this conversation.


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## Lergannn (Sep 16, 2014)

I really didn't mean my comment to turn into this argument, I know bubblenests don't mean a fish is happy, but I do know that fish do have emotions. Wether or not they feel 'happiness' is something we don't know.


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## Destinystar (May 26, 2012)

Thread is closed for moderator review. It may open back up please but take this as a time out to view the rules . 

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=48202


http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...com/tropical-fish-keeping-forum-rules-155457/


Thanks for your understanding !


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