# Cloudy With a Chance of Screaming (NPT Tank)



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

My first attempt at fancy NPT tank is not going well. It's a 3g tank and I decided to go high-end and put down ADA Amazonia plant substrate. I followed the instructions and didn't rinse and put down a plate when pouring in water etc, etc, etc. This is day two of cloud city in that tank. I can't even see the plants in the back. And the tank has kind of sour swamp smell. 

What do I do now?

I put a small pump-driven box filter in there to see if that cleared things up but so far the bubbling noise is making me batty. I did a water change but that clouded it up even more. I'm at a loss. 

Do I really need this fancy plant substrate after all? Maybe just gravel would work. These are the plants currently in there:

bacopa monnieri (Moneywort)
echinodorus amazonicus (Amazon Sword)
blyxa japonica (no idea what its common name is)
bamboo (no leaves underwater, sticking straight up, there for nitrate control)

I was thinking of adding glosso or baby's tears for a carpet later on. 

Also, in case you're wondering, the piscine resident of the tank was relocated to different quarters prior to the big makeover. No bettas are being harmed in the clouding of this tank.

Advice would be most helpful. Please.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

My ADA Malaya went really cloudy when I first added water. 

The only thing that solved it was water changes really. I suppose using Purigen and very fine wool in your filter to polish your water could also work.

A better way than using a plate, is to damp newspapers, scrunch them up and then add your water. I've found the plate method still causes substrate displacement. 

ADA Amazonia puts out a heck of a lot of ammonia (around 8ppm) so I'm not sure if you are aware of that or not. It will leech for several weeks and most people use that opportunity to fishless cycle their tank.

ADA soils are great at growing plants. I would definitely recommend it if you are doing a carpet at some point.


----------



## fishy friend2 (Aug 28, 2011)

When the water is cloudy, what do you do? Water changes can solve anything!!!!!! yeahhhh


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

LittleBetta, I didn't know it put out a lot of ammonia. O.O I know it's supposed to lower pH though. Okay, I guess I'll keep doing water changes. Oh, does it ever stop clouding when you mess with it? The substrate, I mean.

fishy friend, when the water was cloudy, I did a water change. And it stayed cloudy. But I'll keep doing more water changes and see if that helps.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Four water changes later. Still cloudy. How many water changes does it take? I'm starting to feel bad wasting water. >.< Does something like Seachem Clarity work? I don't like using chemicals like that usually but I'm willing to this time. My poor betta is tired of living in a "motel" and he's ready to move back into his tank. Too bad it's so cloudy still. 
Here's the original tank before the change:
Sherman's Tank







Sherman's Tank, Two Hours After the Big Switcheroo







Sherman's Tank Currently







The moneywort is sagging a lot and the blyxa japonica doesn't look so good. I really wanted echinodorus tenellus but my LFS doesn't carry it. X( And I may have to remove his cave. Everytime I put it in, it floated up. No matter how much I tried to bury it in the dirt.

Anyway, any advice on the cloudiness or on the plants? If I got Amano shrimp or a Malaysian Trumpet Snail, would they crawl out of the tank? There's about an inch gap in the cover at the back for the heater/light etc. I'm worried a critter might climb up the walls and just climb on out. Any advice?
Here's a pic of the gap. It goes all the way across the tank.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I'd drain the tank out until only the substrate is damp and then very carefully (and slowly) re-fill it. If you have spare newspaper around, use that, if not, use the plate method and siphon the water out of the bucket and onto the plate. 

Have you tested for traces of ammonia? High ammonia readings can be damaging to plants, as well as encourage the wrong bacteria to grow, so you might have to do a few water changes to get it under 8ppm if it does spike. 

Blyxa can be a sensitive plant. Mine showed signs of melt until it established itself. The pennywort is also probably still adjusting. I had some floating in one of my tanks and around 60% of the submersed growth died off before it finally started sending up new leaves.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

>.< I did drain all the water out until there was just damp substrate. Twice. I couldn't find any newspaper (of all the crazy things - trash day today so all the recycling was collected and not a piece of newspaper to be found) so I had to use the plate method.  I poured it in sloooowly with a measuring cup. 

I had no idea the blyxa was a more difficult plant till I got it home and looked it up in the plant book. Grr. Next time I'm taking the darn book with me. So far, the only thing looking decent is the bamboo and that's because 90% of it is sticking up out of water, haha.

Okay, just got the results of the ammonia test. Looks like I've got a level of .50ppm so it's not too bad yet.

Thanks for all the advice, LittleBettaFish, I really appreciate it.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

No worries. I definitely recommend ADA Africana next time around if you go the aquasoil route. I just poured water straight in with a bucket and there was essentially no clouding. 

I know some people have had issues with Amazonia continually clouding, but hopefully that's not the case here. You could try a water polishing product in your filter and see if that improves it somewhat.

The only other thing I could think of is a bacterial bloom because of the presence of excess nutrients and ammonia in the water column. If it is a bacterial bloom, it should probably clear itself up.

I've found my Blyxa prefers soft water and medium-high levels of iron. Mine has been in for a couple of weeks now and is only just starting to send longer roots down into the substrate.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks. If I can't get the water to clear up, then yeah, I'm tearing down the tank and trying a different substrate because I don't want to be dealing with cloudy water every time I do a water change or prune a plant or move a granule of substrate. The guy at my LFS said he likes Amazonia because it has the most nutrients so that's why I chose it. But then again, he's also really good at putting NPTs together. >.<

Fortunately I do have soft water and I can add an iron supplement to baby my blyxa along. Thanks again, LittleBettaFish.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I use Eco-complete on top of my soil, and it's never clouded my water, even the first day. My plants seem to be growing well in it. Maybe you might want to try it. I hope your tank settles and clears up soon


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Just let it sit. It'll settle and clear. I have ADA amazonia mixed with some other stuff in my sorority and since I just switched it to a 29 I had to wait for it to clear. You can do water changes and run a filter with a lot of sponge in it to help but the only thing that's going to work is time. Eventually the dust will settle to the bottom of the tank and it won't be such a hassle to do water changes.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aurasoulful, I was thinking of using Eco-Complete with some sand on top when I go to plant my larger tanks. Even if I wasn't having this problem with the ADA Amazonia, I can't afford to use it in anything larger than a 3g. This stuff is crazy expensive!

1Fish2Fish, thank you for letting me know about your experience with ADA Amazonia. I just did another water change and it's gone from cloudy to hazy, so we're moving in the right direction. Ammonia did go up to 1.0ppm before the water change so I'll have to keep an eye on that. It might be a few weeks before my poor betta gets to move back in.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Eco complete does best when not mixed with anything. I wouldn't sand cap eco complete because it's not designed to work that way.

I bought my ADA used so I didn't experience the ammonia spike, well, that and I was cycling the tank anyways.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

1fish, do you have any experience with sand capping Seachem Fluorite?


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Nope. I'm actually not a big fan of sand. I did have a tank that had sand capped with fluorite which wasn't so bad but it wasn't a planted tank so it was kinda useless. It came with the tank and I have a problem with needing to find a use for everything so I kept it.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I wouldn't use sand either except I have cories and I'd feel better if they had the sand to scamper across. Otherwise, yeah, love gravel. So much easier to clean.


----------



## 1fish2fish (Sep 10, 2009)

Most people I've talked to say cories do just fine on ecocomplete or fluorite. My sorority is a mixture of fluorite and ADA and I'll be putting cories in there once it's established.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, great. That's really helpful to know, 1fish. Thanks so much. When I first got into fishkeeping, I had no idea there were so many choices for substrate. I thought it was the neon colored gravel or nothin'. XD

By the way, should I not bother adding any fertilizers till the tank has cleared up?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I just did an experiment to see if Amazonia would cloud up if I capped with something. I got a small kritter keeper and put some Amazonia soil down with some pea gravel on top and filled it. The water still looked cloudy but then I realized my fatal mistake: the darn plastic kritter keeper is so scratched up, I wouldn't know if it was cloudy inside or not! *pulls hair*


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

How's your tank today Sakura? I hope it's clearing up. Do you have a filter running?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It went bad. :shock: I went one day where I was unable to do a water change and the water turned sewer yellow and smelled rancid by the next day. And my blyxa japonica melted. So I tore it down and put in gravel for now but tomorrow I'm tearing it down yet again and laying down a layer of Fluorite capped with gravel. I just finished doing my 5g like that and so far I'm pretty happy. The 5g is a bit cloudy but nowhere near as bad as when I had the Amazonia in the 3g. I returned the rest of that; the LFS was so nice, they gave me full store credit. Which I promptly spent on new plants. XD

Sooo, thus ends my experience with ADA Aquasoil, at least for now.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh wow.. Sorry it didn't work out


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks. At least I got the refund. How is your tank doing? I'm glad OFL is helping you. No one knows more about planted tanks than she does.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

You two give me hope in doing my 20g one. Haven't started it yet, just began accumulating the things I will need. Hopefully it will go without any major problems. OFL is awesome and very patient with those like me who don't know squat.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can do it, Trobar! When I started out with plants, I killed all of them. Even the ones that I was told "you can't kill this." -___-' It just takes some time and research and a great resource like OFL.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

My tank is okay, I"m still waiting for my new plants to arrive. The snails seem happy enough, but the chemistry is still not ideal to add the neons and Fernando yet


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

what kind of snails?
I'm still gathering stuff and hope to have things fish ready in couple weeks. 

Long story short granddaughter won a goldfish at a carney and it died the next day. That death has lead to a 20g long NPT.....what we do for our kids and such.....


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I have pond snails that hitchhiked from my first batch of plants into my tank. I also have Malaysian trumpet snails I ordered online to help aerate the substrate and soil in the tank for me so I don't have to keep poking it.

...and sorry about your goldie. I have a carnival goldie that is 13 years old


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

don't the trumpets multiply too?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Trobar, :lol: That's a pretty impressive leap all right. But your fish are lucky you care so much. 

And on a side note: I'm so jealous you have two orange cats. All mine are varying shades of black, gray, and brown. It's like looking at a black and white movie.

Aurasoulful, when you order snails from plantedaquarium.com, do you have to order five snails? And is it $4.99 per snail or for all snails?

Trumpets multiply too but I don't think as fast as pond snails. 

Nerite snails can't multiply in freshwater.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I ordered 5 snails, but I ended getting nine adults and 4 teeny tiny babies. Never pour out the water until you check it closely for teenies  Yes Trobar, they multiply like rabbits in a tropical tank. 4.99 for a batch of snails. It was nice to get extras  and they all survived! Even the teenies


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Well the leap went from Goldie (yeah she named it that) to Jake the betta in my avatar, to grandma not wanting to do that many water changes that often to...um ... well a 20g NPT in development.. 

The other reason for the NPT is that she wants glofish and they are going to need some hiding room. BTW petsmart has glofish on sale for 2.99 until 10/23 so I gotta move fast on this thing or I'm gonna have to sweettalk my hubby into another tank for the damn things


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh wow, too bad my tank isn't ready yet... Sakura, MTS can also be bought at Aquabid, I saw 25 MTS for a few bucks!


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Trobar, hahaha! Too bad GloFish are illegal in CA for some unknown reason. Lots of things are illegal here. Cabomba, water sprite, duckweed . . . I guess all those plants are on the Noxious Weeds list or something.

Aurasoulful, I have absolutely no idea where I'd put 25 Malaysian trumpet snails. :shock: Especially if they breed a lot. And thanks for the info, I think I'm going to order some snails from them. Can they burrow into gravel to get to a softer substrate, I wonder?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Duckweed is illegal? I just ordered some from a guy on Aquabid... Great... I didn't know those things you listed are illegal. Yes MTS love to burrow and fluff up your substrate for you. Prevents toxic gasses from building up in your substrate. They come out at night to scoot around and party XD


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm going with the cheap topsoil/sand substrate that OFL recommended. Kinda like the black sand. Think that would help illuminate the fish colors. What I'm having the difficulty with is the lighting. Like the LED but they are even more expensive than fluorescent and I get lost on the T2 T5 etc. may have to sic my hubby on that crap considering he does electrics.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I use T5 HO florescent lamps that are 6500K daylight (one of them) and the other is a red light spectrum grow bulb. I don't think LED would do your plants that good. Florescent all the way


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, I'm not 100% sure duckweed is illegal but I know for sure Cabomba (cabomba carolinia) is. I really want some for my platy fry tank but all that is available here is a very difficult purple cabomba. Tried it, killed it, not doing that again. I'm hoping water sprite isn't illegal but when I went to check liveaquaria.com, it said they can't ship it to CA. 

Trobar, all I know is when I got a 6500K bulb like OFL suggested, my plants got very happy. I got a ZooMed Flora bulb at my local Petco but you can get a GE 6500K plant bulb at Wal-Mart for cheap. Just double-check what length bulb you'll need.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

will go with the T5 and may a LED eventually for 'pretty' factor. hehe I talked hubby into 300 bucks for 100 butterflies, a string of LED's should be easy


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

This is exciting.. Fricken NPT club! ^__^ We all have to post pictures soon


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yup! I agree.  I can't wait to see how everyone's tank turns out.


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Malaysian Trumpets breed like rabbits. I started out with 25, I now have hundreds in 2 months. I have to use population control. They will get through the gravel fine. Good snails to have, if they go for the top of the tank, there's something wrong with your water.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

gimmie a week or so, 1 to assemble, another to figure out the stinking camera, and another to figure out what to do once I figure out the camera


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pitluvs, darn I wish there wasn't a border problem, you could send me some of yours. I guess if my snail population gets crazy, I'll just get an assassin snail too. Although not sure I want to see that . . .

Trobar, haha. Mine's not really photo-ready anyway so a week is fine.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Mine are nibbling on my pennyworts.. I guess there isn't enough algae in the tank. Weird, my nitrates are still on the high side..


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Aww crap that is something else I need to get.... A test kit


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aurasoulful, I think you can drop half an algae wafer in for your snails so they don't eat the plants.

I just went with a 5 in 1 strip. It takes too long to read nitrates using a liquid test kit. All that shaking.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah, it's a wallet buster when you first start out..


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Algae wafers... Too bad I'm broke


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

broke? what's broke? oh yeah wallet don't work no more. I wouldn't have that problem if I didn't have to pay those pesky bills like mortgage, insurance and utilities


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Being a fish owner can do that to you. Make you broke, I mean. XD I've got a spare bag of algae wafers, too. Wonder how I can get it to you.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

and so can kid, grandkid (hence why I have a Betta), dogs, cats, lizards, husbands...and the list goes on and on and on


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yup, lol. XD


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Sakura, just get assassins. They do the same thing as trumpets, just don't populate as quickly  And they look awesome.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Assassins will burrow?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> Assassins will burrow?


 she beat me to it


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

Yes yes they do, perfect little creatures. I can't get them here


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Cooool. And my LFS where I just got my nerite has them too. Thanks for telling me, Pitluvs. You're awesome.  

PS, what happened to going to bed? ;-)


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

sweet, I'll be ordering some assassins if I can't get them on Tuesday!


----------



## Pitluvs (Jun 22, 2011)

I saw a friend in need! I'm happy I lurked for a minute. Just be careful, they kill all snails so make sure there are no favorite in with them. I lost my pond snails in my 29g, that reminds me. Must go look for them tomorrow. I had two, I see babies but no adult. Now I'm going to bed, go Google assassin snails.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

That's sweet of you to offer the wafers Sakura. You don't have to do that. Very kind though. <3 Urm.. I just offered them some pre-boiled sliced baby carrots. Let's see if they take to them


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh wow, one of the snails look interested in it.. Trying to lift it and I guess test if it's edible. How cute :3


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

damn cats

I had to bring in my spider plants and catnip and the cats think they have new munchies....Who said they envy my orange ones???


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pitluvs, you the best.  I'm going to get a few tomorrow. Won't the people at my LFS be surprised when they see me again.

Aurasoulful, if you ever find you need the wafers, just let me know. I'm sure we can work something out. And hey, if we get our tanks up and running, we can exchange cuttings someday. There are plenty of Starbucks between my town and yours. ;-)

Trobar, definitely get some assassin snails. Otherwise you'll be poking your substrate every day to prevent anaerobic patches of gases. 

Okay, I'm off to find food. Just fed my fish and they reminded me I'm hungry too. Just not hungry for bloodworms.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, I think that was me.  My dad can't buy my mom bouquets of flowers anymore because the cats go nuts for 'em.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

*Shows up at a starbucks with huge bags of snails and plants... People wonder if I'm sane or not.*


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aurasoulful: :rofl:


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

aurasoulful said:


> *Shows up at a starbucks with huge bags of snails and plants... People wonder if I'm sane or not.*


take a laptop, jar of spaghetti sauce, small knife and really make them wonder


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Trobar said:


> take a laptop, jar of spaghetti sauce, small knife and really make them wonder


 HAHA I love it! One of the snails is taking to a carrot!! Wow! I just wish i could direct the others to a carrot.. Maybe they'll get it soon.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay, go snail!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

The other ones are chopping down one of my pennyworts for me.. Too much service guys.. I can trim them.... When I'm not lazy


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

HAHA that is the number one question on having a NPT. WILL I KEEP UP ON THE MAINTENANCE


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Well when you have one running for a long time, it maintains itself


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, my number one question with an NPT is "Will it live?"


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm sure it will. This tank I'm working on is my first NPT. I'm getting easy growing plants and lots of them with a good variety. You won't need fertilizers or CO2.. It's lower cost and very natural. Fish tend to thrive better in that type of set-up from what I've seen


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Haven't killed my hubby yet and he had a 3 day grace period. then again my thumb is knda black


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Auraosulful, that's good to know. Thanks. I picked plants that don't need C02 also. Nowhere to put one of those big canisters. 

Trobar, haha.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I almost wasted 30.00 on a co2 kit. OFL stopped me XD


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

she knows her stuff that is for suire


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah it's amazing. I learned a boat load from her. Hear that OFL? We love ya!!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

*sigh* you both are cali girls, I'm opposite side of the state. you girls got sunshine and my furnace just turned on...


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

It's starting to get darker and gloomier early this year actually. But I like it.. I'm fair eyed and skinned


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

fair skin, hazel eyes and wondering if there will be snow for halloween. Gotta get a heater by the first hint of snow or Jake will be coldish. Yet another reason to get this NPT up and running


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

What is the low temp for a betta?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

YAAY My duckweed just shipped! Oh no!! Speaking of weather, during the winter we tend to get power outages.. What is a good way to retain heat for a tropical tank? Now I'm starting to regret going tropical


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Trobar said:


> What is the low temp for a betta?


The lowest a betta can comfortably be in is 76 degrees


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think wrapping a towel around the tank will probably retain heat the most. I guess I'm lucky. I'm half a block from a fire station so when we lose power, they get our grid up first because it's the same as the fire station.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh that is lucky  One year our power was out for 4 days.. So I guess I could wrap the tank if there are fish in it by then. I could also take Fernando in a cup and carry him around to keep him warm..  We lost all our tropicals that year


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Nah I'll just keep the light on. He's in a 1.8g tank and that bulb keeps the tank way too hot. House is set for 70, with light on and furnace running he is at 78. Doubt that is good but most likely the lesser of evils. I gotta get this 20g up


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:shock: Was it one of those extra windy storms? I hate windy storms. Rain I can handle but there's something about the wind howling that makes me edgy. 4 days. That's a long time.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

78 degrees is perfectly fine.. Yes windy bad.. 60 per hour or something.. Stuff blowing away and knocking over.. Hated it.. Our tinfoil barbs and green ciclids all froze to death


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

But you girls are in cali, bet the temps don't go below freezing. Don't know what I would do if power goes out in the dead of winter. Most likely turn on a kerosene heater in the living room which is where the fish tank will be anyway.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

The area I'm at rarely snows. But it gets cold enough to chill and kill tropicals if there is no heat source. kerosene heater doesn't sound like a bad idea..


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

The snails are loving the carrots!! XD Gotta have them veggies.. I'm glad they are liking them.. I hear Otos love them too


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Glad to hear the veggies are a hit. My tank plan so far is betta (duh), 6ish glofish, 6 cories, then..... LOTS of room. any suggestions?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Sounds like a good stock to me.. I would add the cories, let them settle for a couple days. Then add the Glofish, let them settle, then last be not least the betta. Always good to add him last so he doesn't get overly territorial. Make that tank a wild jungle with lots of at least 4-5 different stemmed plants.. A few types of rooted plants and don't forget some floating plants. You could add decor, but I wouldn't as the plants take up all the room and offer great cover for all fish. OFL said so to me as well. She says it takes about at least 3 months for good bacteria to mature in your bottom soil. She says to get organic with no additives in it. Sift it to get the big chucks out of it and the lay down at least two inches over the whole bottom.. Sand or gravel over the soil with at least an inch or half and inch. Something something... my brain ran outta gas XD


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aurasoulful, that's too bad. I'm sorry about tropicals. Couple of those windstorms get nasty. 

I've heard otos like veggies too. So far mine won't touch 'em. Don't know if they're full from algae still or just picky eaters.

Trobar, it does get pretty cold in some areas of CA. Up north near the Oregon border and in the Lake Tahoe area, especially. 

Watch Jake closely the first few days. GloFish are basically danios and danios can get really hyper and nippy. Hopefully the heavily planted tank will keep them from nipping his tail. 6 cories sounds great too. What kind of cories are you thinking of?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh yeah, that's right.. They are altered danios... Crazy rambunctious fish... They can't be trusted with my boy.. He's way too slow.. o-0 I'm afraid to get neons.. :L

Sakura have you tried boiling them first?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

My one betta does fine with my neons. I don't know how my other bettas would do but Crichton is an abnormally unaggressive, even wimpy betta so he gets along great with them. Now when I had him with danios, he didn't do so well. They were too spazzy for him. They swam in circles, literally, around him.

Yup, I boiled them. Cucumber, zucchini, romaine lettuce, and spinach. They turned up their little oto noses at all of them. :roll: I know I'm a bad cook but really, when even the fish won't eat my cooking . . .


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Silly otos... Missing out on some yummy veggies.. I hear they are wild caught o-o Oh
Crichton was an english gentlemen his past life. Does he like tea? My boy does XD I order IAL teabags on ebay. They are awesome! I just plop a couple in the tank, and the tannis slowly release. Better to do it that way then to make actual tea. Saves the good properties of the leaves.  I may get neons once all the perimeters read zero and the tank has junglfied. I hear they can be sensitive to unstable water chemistry.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Crichton is a funny guy, that's for sure. I've never seen him flare, not even when he was housed next to a guy who flares at EVERYTHING. 

Ooh, IAL teabags. That sounds awesome. I wonder why the heck IAL is so hard to find??? 

Yeah, I've heard you should only put neons in well-established tanks too. I wasn't 100% sure if my tank was "established" but I tried anyway and they're pretty happy. I really love my neons, they look great against a planted background. 

Okay, well, I think I'm off to sleep. Gotta be up at 6:30 and it'll take me a half hour to get all the cats settled so I won't hit the sack until past 2 anyway.

Goodnight!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Come to think of it, I don't know if I'll get otos.. They are poop machines, very much like the snails. May be too much bioload.. We'll see.. I should get to bed, it's really late O-o goodnight guys <3 I will return.. probably complaining about my snails taking over the world


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sakura8 said:


> I know I'm a bad cook but really, when even the fish won't eat my cooking . . .


HAHA you would get along real well with my daughter, she even messed up jello and easymac

And as for the cories I plan on getting the choice in petsmart and petco are only albino and a speckled one. Gonna go to Pittsburgh on Tuesday and see what they got there. I plan on getting one or two other types of fish that the glofish can pick on and maybe leave the betta alone. Platy or rasbora maybe. Also want one of those dwarf frogs


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Woohoo, just placed my order with Sweetaquatics. Wait. That means I just spent more money on plants. Eek. 

Otos do have a high bioload (my otos poop soooo much) but I've never seen anything that can clean up algae like they can. In my 10g, my wisteria and moneywort looked brown because of the algae. Got 3 otos and overnight, the plants were green again. I love those guys. Love my cory cats too, but I never see them 'cause they're nocturnal.

Let's see. Petco and Petsmart pretty much stock albino/bronze cories, peppered cories, or false julii cories. If you get bronze cories, make sure you are getting cordydoras aeneus, not brochis splendens. C. aeneus get just shy of 3" but brochis splendens get much bigger.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Hmm Maybe I'll get Otos.. But it may be awhile before I get any fish. Man, sweetaquatics are making good business from this community. Still waiting for everything to process though.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I ordered most of my plants today!!! I know I will need to get some more, but I want to see these come in then I'll get the rest. Besides, if I order a little every week, hubby don't complain nearly as much . This means next week I'll buy the fish after the plants get here. Gonna start with 5 or 6 cories, couple otos and 6 to 10 glofish, depending on what colors I can get and how many granddaughter wants.

Also today was one of those epic grandma moments. Grandkid called her mom from school because she didn't want to ride the bus home with her band instrument. Hehe, she picked the baritone....nuthin' like toting around a big honking box.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

YAY! I can't wait to get my plants  I gotta see everybody's tanks when we are all set-up


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Me too, I just finished ordering what I hope will be all the plants I need. Just have to buy a new bag of Seachem Fluorite and I'm ready to plant. Oh and I guess the plants have to be delivered too, huh?

Trobar, haha. My brother played the bassoon in HS. Only person in the band whose intstrument was taller than him when he was sitting. We always knew where he was. Wisely, he opted to play the tenor sax for marching band. XD


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah, let's hope the weather doesn't get too insane. Can't believe it's raining now o-o I changed my water and then I tested it not too long ago. Seems biologically cycled from the filter. Ammonia, and Nitrites are zero, and Nitrates are 20 ppm. Once I get the rest of the plants in, hopefully I will get the Nitrates to zero soon. But it seems tolerable to add fish now isn't it? I was thinking of waiting a bit longer to add the plants in as to not stress the fish. But I dunno if I want to wait anymore.. lol


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I kept watching the sky all day. The weather has been so crazy but I'm just glad we didn't have many 100+ days this summer. I like the rain. In moderation. 

I think you could add fish in now. I believe the safe range for nitrates is up to 40ppm. And if I remember correctly (which I may not be), duckweed is a nitrate remover so that should help keep the numbers in check. 

And aiyiyiyi. Never go to Exotic Aquarium on Franklin Blvd. All their plants were dying and they had so many big cichlids in small tanks. One giant parrot cichlid kept swimming up to the glass whenever I walked by. I wanted so bad to rescue it but I have nowhere to put a huge tank.  And they had about 50 bettas in teeeny cups, smaller than the Petco/Petsmart cups. At least they kept them on top of the turtle tank so they stayed warm, anyway.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

OFL told me that I can add plants, fish and everything on day 1.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I don't think I will or can add fish anymore. My tank is ruined. Gasses built up last night I guess after my water change. I keep poking the bottom, but more and more bubbles keep coming up. I've poked so much, the water is cloudy. I don't want to work on it anymore. I think it's completely ruined. Thanks for your help though


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Reading ^ makes me want to order the MTS sooner now. Guess I can order the things and then get assassins later if they overtake the tank.

You know anything about freshwater clams? I think those would be cool.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I have MTS in my tank. So I don't know what is going on. Sorry, I know nothing about the clams.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I got my duckweed today. I don't think it will help with the gases, but maybe it will when I get more plants. It's kinda confusing and upsetting when I know nothing about NPT. It's hard to tell the harmless gases to the harmful ones.  If you don't have snails or clams right away, just be sure to poke your substrate at least once a day to be safe. I think it could take 3 months to a year for plants to aerate the soil with their roots. I guess my snails didn't get deep enough and not enough area coverage to do it for me. Be sure even with them to at least check once a week.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I ordered the last of what I need (I HOPE). 
I have the 20g long tank, filter, glass top (for now at least to keep cats out of the water).

Coming 7 MTS, a crap load of plants of all kinds and amounts, test kit, light (double tube T8) and a heater. Just hope they come close to my next day off...

Still have to buy sand and dirt but hubby will do that at homedepot or lowes when he goes there to pick up windows.

Is there anything else I need to get?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

aurasoulful, oh no! I'm so sorry to hear your tank isn't going so well.  Don't give up! Have the gases harmed your plants at all? PM OFL, I know she'd be willing to help you. But don't give up. This is my 3rd attempt at a planted tank. I killed everything I planted when I first started out, even Java Fern. It takes practice. 

Trobar, freshwater clams are filter feeders so they eat detritus and stuff floating around the water. You might need to target feed them with a turkey baster. They need at least 4 inches of sand to dig into I think.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

practice to kill? lol I should excell at that. 

If clams need 4 inch base, I'll forget them. Hubby is getting a little miffed at the amount I've spent so far. HAHAHA I keep telling him 'almost done, almost done' and we have yet to buy the fish but Lina will be with us and he can't say no to that utterly spoiled kid.

Aurosoulful, find my thread, OFL has been responding to it and it may help you too. She by far is the best one here for NPTs and is extreemely patient.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I've heard clams can be a little hard to keep alive sometimes because of the amount of food they need in the water column. In other words, they need a dirty tank. I think they do best in cichlid tanks because cichlids are messy eaters.

Yes, Trobar, good plan: get the utterly spoiled kid on your side and then you'll get everything you want for the tank. ;-)


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Yup Yup, considering she is the one who started this whole thing with that shortlived carney fish.....


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:lol: 

Aurasoulful, I see what you mean. I just poked my 5g and the air bubbles kept coming. But I don't smell that "noxious gas" smell so maybe the poking is just releasing oxygen and not bad gas? Maybe your tank isn't ruined.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

And if I could talk hubby into $300 for the butterflies shown below with the spoiled kid. (We released 100 painted lady butterflies for my grandma's 100th birthday) I have every reason to believe he won't bat an eyelash when the spoiled kid picks out fish


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:lol: That's a LOT of butterflies. 100 is a very impressive age though, it deserves something awesome like what you did.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

They were alot of fun for the party though. A pretty amazing sight to see 100 wings of orange/black all fluttering around. Put 50 in that basket and handed the other 50 to those attending in individual envelopes for them to release.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Sounds pretty amazing. How long ago was this?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sept 17

Hubby is gonna KILL me, the tank I bought to fit on the mantle of the fake fireplace will not work there. Apparently the stone top is curved and the tank rocks. Now I have to find something else to put it on and most likely rearrange furniture


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Time to call in the spoiled kid to break the news.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

hahaha

Think I can find something foaming, spongy, or whatnot to level out the tank? I'm afraid of the weight distributation. This thing is gonna weight a hefty amount. The mantle has plugs and everything up there.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:/ I'm not sure. You could try but the thing is, with something foamy or spongy, it'll sink under the weight and be uneven again. I can ask my engineering dad when he comes home. He figured out a way for me to put about 400 lbs of weight on my dresser without making my room sink into the ground.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

hubby is carpenter and knows weight distributation well. *gulp* dun wanna tell him. If we have to buy a stand.......shudders


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hang in there, Trobar! You can do it!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Thank you for the support guys. I just got some duckweed laid out in the tank. Hopefully this will help with the nitrate levels to deplete. The water cleared up.. Thank god.. Hence the title of this thread, I was about to scream.. XD I'm not placing veggies down for the snails anymore. That might have caused the substrate to look a bit dusty. I've been poking the substrate, and will do it regularly until I get my MTS population up. I wish the plants would get here.. I've made sure to message OFL to tell her whats going on. Hopefully I can fix things up. The plants seem to be growing and alive still. We'll see


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I think the bubbles coming up are just oxygen right now. If you hadn't poked when you did, though, the gas would have turned anaerobic. 

I used my planting tweezers to poke my substrate because they're long and very sharp and I accidentally skewered right through a leaf on my Kleiner Bar sword. T_T Not my brightest moment.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

DX Oh noes.. Careful with those. I use the handle of an unused paintbrush or a pair of chopsticks. I'm still waiting on the plants.  Get your plants yet?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Nope, still haven't gotten them yet. Mail came already and no packages either. X( Waiting is so hard! I'm expecting the Sweet Aquatics order tomorrow. I hope.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Well i ordered before you did and so far the order is still processing and hasn't even shipped. Unless yours has shipped, it might not make it tommorrow. I just added duckweed last night. I also tested my water, ammonia rose to .50ppm and nitrites rose to .25ppm but nitrates dropped to well... 10-20ppm looks almost to be the same color orange on this chart :? So between those.. I wonder why the first two rose.. I changed the water two days ago. Maybe I didn't wash the duckweed good enough.. How can you wash it without pouring it down the drain? XD Hard to work in your tank without it getting all over you too.. Silly to get it..


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aww nuts. That means we both probably won't get our Sweet Aquatics orders until next week. 

What kind of substrate did you use? Some kinds can raise ammonia for a while. The ADA Amazonia I started out with did. That is weird the ammonia and nitrites suddenly went up but your nitrates are still in the safe range so that's good. Are all your snails still alive? One of them didn't die somewhere in the substrate?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

So far they all seem to be alive. I used eco-complete with soil underneath. I guess I'll have to change the water again. Wait... but how without taking out that evil sticky duckweed XD


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

*making mental note to avoid duckweed* Maybe the soil is making the ammonia jump temporarily? I think the more nutrients there are the more likely it is to make the parameters go weird. You could net the duckweed out while you do the water change, I guess.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Guess I'll have to buy a hair pick to poke soil til the MTS do their job. As for the soil, I'm going to use a nothing added aka real cheap top soil and a sand cover like OFL suggested to me. Going to use playsand and then accent areas with rocks or something.

What do I feed the MTS til alga grows?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You can feed them boiled veggies like Aurasoulful did or pick up Hikari Algae Wafers. You only need to feed half or even less than half a wafer though. Those things expand like crazy and look nasty.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I wouldn't feed them. They will eat the dying leaves from your plants for you. Don't want to risk filling your tank full of nitrates


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

YEAH my light came today. aqueon twin strip flouorescent, came with bulbs but don't know what watt. but considering it was under 60 for a 30" fixture that cheap walmart bulbs can fit, I'm not complaining.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yay!  Almost there!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Well I opened up the light and instead of 6500k bulbs there are 8000k bulbs.Think this is a bigger is better thing or should I get downsized ones? gonna post this on my thread too and hope OFL will respond


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Let's see what OFL says


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

yeah, I depend on what she says almost totally. Still got some time before setting this thing up, apparently Monday is a holiday and no mail service because I received an email from the snail supplier that they won't be sent until Tuesday.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh okay, that's good to know


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I have that nagging feeling that I'm getting the snails before the plants, do you think I could put them in some kind of container with dirt and food for a bit?
and no it won't be heated


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

They should be just fine. You could put down boiled carrots or cucumber or something. They'll be fine


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Got my plantedaquarium order today so at least I can get started on my divided 10g. At least, I can when the cloudy water clears up enough so I can see what I'm doing. Also got 7 MT snails. I put 3 in my community tank and one on each side of my divided 5g. The others will go in the divided tank and Sherman's tank when I finally get to finish it. Now I'm afraid to poke my substrate because I have no idea where the snails are. :shock:


----------



## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

I Googled a couple of articles on Nerite snails. They like the water temp to be in the seventies.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Glad to hear you got your snails and plants Sakura. And the headaches go on....


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Just poke carefully. They have very tough shells. Glad you got them and some plants today. The tank is still cloudy?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, the divided and planted 5g is doing fine. Although I think the corkscrew val is unhappy so I'll rearrange that. But the divided and planted 10g is a total and utter bust. I'm going to have to take out all the Fluorite substrate and put gravel and anubias on rocks in there. For some reason, the substrate never settled, probably because of the divider. So all the live plants I bought for that tank are floating in various tanks awaiting a home. :shock: A giant Kleiner Bar sword, a really cool Vesuvius sword, and some Jungle Val that is also unhappy. I don't think vallisneria likes me much.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm sorry your 10g isn't working out for you.. Wow, what are you going to do with all those plants  My tank is now being overrun by pond snails and mts. I saw a few dead pond snails, so I know why my ammonia went up, like you said. This is all very tricky.. Takes forever just to even complete them.. Still can't add fish. Strange that the dust hasn't settled.. Sure it's not a bacterial or algae bloom?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I honestly don't know why the dust didn't settle this time. It's the same substrate I used in my 5g. Buuuuut, it's working out okay. I'm going to get a 20gL at Petco and transfer my 10g community into that so I'll use all the spare plants in the 20gL.  I've been wanting to upgrade my community for a while but I couldn't afford to buy all the plants for it so this actually works out great. 

I wonder why the pond snails died. I thought those things wouldn't die unless you physically killed them. @[email protected] You are so right, this is all very tricky. Makes keeping fish look easy in comparison.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh good luck with your 20 galleon, I bet it will work out better


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you. Good luck with yours too. How'd the water change with the duckweed go?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I didn't change the water today. I'll just scoop it out of the way when I do


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

good luck you two. My stuff is trickling in still no plants or heater. One site I ordered from didn't mail the order due to monday being a holiday. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll be up and running into different headaches.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aaaaaarrgh. So I got a 20gL and got it all planted and was pouring the water in very slowly over a plastic bag laid on the top of the substrate. It was going great. Slowly but great. The water was staying nice and clear. I had one gallon left to pour in and I got distracted, poured too much in and stirred up the substrate. Cloudy city again. T_T Sooo close. Also, I think I used too much substrate. Have 3 snails in there. I can't find the other snails; I put them in another tank temporarily and they buried out of sight. Darn them.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

NOO! I'm sorry Sakura... T^T It better clear up soon. Since it's a larger tank it should. Wait until night time to get them as they wonder out. How many inches is your substrate? I think it's supposted to be two inches or 1 1/2 inches all together. 

I broke down and got some ghost shrimp today for my ten gallon. They are mysterious little beasties. I also saw a 2.5 gallon tank I just had to have. It's like a miniature version of a standard rectangular tank. It came with a glass canopy, I was sold! I'm turning it into a NPT nano shrimp tank. I'll get more shrimp once I think it's ready. It's so cute. I added soil and gravel and a couple of plants. I just couldn't help it.. I almost got a betta today... But I resisted yet again T^T


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Hopefully your tank will clear up sakura. Aurasoulful, lol these fishes are an addictive thing, I am restraining until I can get my 20g up and running....becoming increasing impatient with mail order.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you both, aurasoulful and trobar. I just put a bit more Clarity in, hoping it works. Otherwise, I guess it's water change day tomorrow. And trobar, I know what you mean. I really wish my sweetaquatics order would come soon so I can finish the 3g tank! The betta who is supposed to be living there is getting mad at me because he's stuck in a 1.75g kritter keeper. It's like he's having to live in a Motel 6 while his apartment is repainted. XD


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

"LOL "I wanna check out already!"


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

grrr, got home from work(rough day) and checked the mail, not a single order received. I fumed and started to cuss out the vendors THEN I remembered it was a holiday.....


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

whoo hoo!!! got heater and test kit today, confirmed that the snails and a couple plants are in the mail!!! Still no word from sweetaquatics though and the bulk of my plants. Do they normally take over a week to ship?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I don't know.. I'm still waiting on my order, and they haven't even canceled the previous order I made yet.. What in the world is taking them so long?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Have half a mind to call them and complain. They took my money fast enough but no communication as to the status of the order. I would feel better if they would at least keep me updated.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah I would ask them what's going on. I ordered from another place to get a couple of plants and they already sent them within a few days


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Yup me too, those are going to be here tomorrow. What pisses me off is that they took the cash out of my account but nothing as far as when things might ship. I couldn't find a phone on their site, may look in yellowpages but I did send them an email. The prices might be good but their service sucks.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

LOL I just received my 'thankyou for your list will contact you when order ships' does this mean I have to wait another week?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah I e-mailed a lady named Mary about an order before my last one I just placed. She promised to cancel it. She never did so far... Oh wow... Probably.. When did you place your order?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Man! 'cuse my double post.. I checked my account on their site. Both listings are still processing....  I don't think I'm too patient now...


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Could not find a listing for Sweetaquatics in Gantt, AL in either whitepages or yellowpages


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Uh oh... Not good...


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Am considering contacting the better business bureau to see their rating if I don't hear from them soon


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

what kind of business uses unlisted phone???


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

That sounds like a good idea


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh god... Now I'm starting to freak out


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

They state they have a store at their location.. By why no phone? Makes zero sense..


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

BBB came up blank, as well as phone search in hamilton OH and Gantt. AL, the only addresses I can find on that site


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Very weird...


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Allow me to join the "what the heck is up with sweetaquatics" club. No word yet. I'm about to cancel my order but after reading the last several posts, I'm not even sure that's gonna work. Funny, PewPewPew has ordered from them before. Might contact her and see if she's had this problem with them. My order from plantedaquarium came like 2 days right after I ordered.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

OFL too I believe, If they would only respond and tell me what's up I would be happier, AND tell us a way to contact them. Ironically this is on their webby:

We are a family owned and operated company since 2005. We specialize in live aquarium and pond plants. We have been actively keeping plants and fish for 20 years. Customer satisfaction is our number one goal. Strong customer relations is a close second. We back our plants with a 100% customer satisfaction. Thirdly, we strive to maintain a wide selection of fine quality plants.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah, I have a canceled order that I'm waiting to cancel  Good idea, I hope she can tell us what we want to hear


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

How can they have good customer relations if the customers can't get hold of them?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah, the only way to cantact them is through their e-mail on their site. At least she responded when I asked to cancel...


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah I know.... We'll find out what's going on. Don't worry Trobar


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm gonna PM Pew right now. This is getting crazy. If it was just one person who was having trouble, I might understand but there are three of us who are getting impatient.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Could be just impatience but no way of contacting them 'cept thru email, not registered in yellow/white pages, no listing on BBB... kinda has me concerned. To say nothing about the lack of communication


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

PMed Pew. We'll see what she says. Yeah, I'm also not too happy that I've been billed for my order when it hasn't even shipped. Most companies don't ask for money until they ship the goods.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I'll check after work. God I don't wanna go in tonight, hate closing a deli. If I don't hear from them by tomorrow or positive feedback from Pewpew, I'm going to file a complaint with the BBB, MAYBE I'll get a response then.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Okay, well good luck to all of us. I just hope we didn't just get ripped off T^T


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

sakura will explain what I replied as, but in short...

SA is a mom and pop store, one that recently relocated. theyre slower than most more "commercial" businesses for those reasons, but have fantastic customer service. 

Waiting a week isnt that bad. you could be waiting up to three, tbh. If you needed speed SA wasnt the best choice, but theyre a great company and one i order everything from.

if, after TWO weeks (a reasonable amount of time, only one isnt "ridiculous" at all, actually!) it is not processed, send a kind and professional email to SA politley reminding how long it has been and that you hope theyre processed soon.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thanks, Pew, you're the best.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Got some pics of the 20gL and the 5.5g divided. I had to take the 20g pics in sections, my camera wouldn't fit it all in one shot.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

eh gads after reading this very long thread well most of it I beleive I made an error in setting up my tank. Right now I have a layer of sand down and an order of florite clay coming in. should I have put the clay down first? 

Looks like im going to have a cloudy tank on my hands as well.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Pew, once again the forum comes thru, I'll wait a bit longer and figure out what to do with the other live things that come in first. Guess I could start the tank when I get the snails, toss in a plant or get wafers to feed them while I wait for SA. Will I have to filter/heat the snails? and how hard is it going to be to catch the buggers again OR can I drain most of the water out and plant around them? I really really hope the SA plants come in before Petsmart's sale on the fish I want expire. It is a $3.00/fish and I was planning on buying 6 or 8 of them.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Why not buy them and then set up the tank? You need to QT the fish, regardless, so no harm, no foul(?)


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

How? I am planning on a 20g NPT tank for betta, 6 - 8 glofish, 6 cories, 7 MTS, and eventually assassin snails to control the MTS (things we do for our grandkids...). If I buy the glofish, the ones on sale for 2.99 vs 5.99 normal pricing, what do I do with them when I try to plant the tank with the plants from SA? OFL said to add the plants get to temp then add the fish same day. Betta will be last due to possible aggression.


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

Ah.

Btw, you wont need assassin snails. MTS limit their reproduction to what is available to them, they will not over breed like pond snails would. You really wont need any more or any less than the snails that live in your tank at any one time.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Cool nice to know that on MTS, all I ever read is that they multiply. Have seen other posts about snails overrunning their tanks (probably pond snails). May still get a assassin cause they are cool.

But you see my problem now? The snails should be here by the end of the week what do I do with them? I have a couple other plants coming but SA order was the bulk of my NPT plants.

Hehe, should have known better than actually planning something....payday is thursday, Friday is day off.... had planned on setting up the whole thing on Friday, get grandkid, go to Petsmart, buy fish.

WELL best laid plans....


----------



## PewPewPew (Nov 26, 2010)

The snails will be okay in a decent-sized container thats not too cold or too warm. If you have algae wafers, use them. If you want an algae exploosssionnn, go outside, get a rock, put it in a clear container, add ferts (lots of ferts!) to that container, and put it in the sunlight 

I would be careful with the assassins, they'll ruin your snail population :C


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

How about miracle-gro potting soil with a rock, will that kill the snails? Hubby isn't too happy on building a cherry stand since the one I wanted was discontinued and no longer available, if I kill something before even the set up... I can taste the 250 i've already spent being shoved down my throat for the next decade


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

hmm, does it matter what kind of algae? I bet I have a planter outside that had summer plants in it that is kinda greenish atm


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okami, yeah, I think you probably should have put the Fluorite down first and then a thin layer of sand over it. :/ Buuut, all is not lost. You can scrape out most of the sand and leave a thin layer on the bottom, then add the Fluorite over that and use the remaining sand to make the top layer.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Sounds like a plan. Hopefully the tank wont get to cloudy when I do it


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Put a plastic ziplock bag down on the substrate and pour the water in over the bag, very slowly. It's time-consuming but it works. The bigger the bag, the less chance you have of it becoming cloudy.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Tank is kinda already full of water with the Sand already -.-


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Good luck, Okami.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

lol thanks!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

WOOT SA is shipping my order on Saturday!!! I will have enough time to get the glofish still on sale!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

YAAAAY I got a couple of plants from another place. They are lovely, can't wait to get the other plants.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Hubby has a new project  I took him out shopping (ARGH!!!) and he didn't like the prices of the stands claimed they were crap and he could do better. So for now the tank is gonna sit on part of a shelving unit made to store things in basements, shops etc while he makes me a custom stand built to my specs and made out of cherry or walnut  I think the outcome is SO worth the hour spent taking him shopping.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

That's awesome  I hope everything works out


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Lets just hope the plants and fish don't die then I'll be eating crow


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Nothing will die..Just be sure to get the healthiest fish you can get


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm sure I'll be on here lots in the next few weeks for advice.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I will too, I'm going to get some fish tomorrow XD


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Pick the healthiest..hehe.. what kind?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

well i have a nano tank a friend bought me, so another betta. Dunno if I can afford tetras now though


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I will be taking a 9year old fish shopping next week. She wants glofish. Wanna bet we get 2 of each color?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

two red, two green, two blue, two yellow, two orange.. wow
I want to get a couple of x-ray tetras


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

aurasoulful said:


> two red, two green, two blue, two yellow, two orange.. wow
> I want to get a couple of x-ray tetras


Dont forget they have purple now as well lol..... X ray tetras are cool, I have 6 glowlight tetras in my NPT right now, cool little fish. I really like the Head Tail light tetras myself


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

everytime I look at those fish in the store Dr Seuss goes thru my mind.. 1 fish 2 fish, red fish blue fish


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh yeah, purple... LOL They when all out with the colors. I get my plants shipped on Monday!! So happy XD I will get my fish in an hour or two. I hope they have healthy bettas in today


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Okay, I broke down and got two bettas and 8 neons today XD


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, it's just too hard to go to a pet store and not get something.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I know :3 I has been bitten by the betta fairy XD


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Well I posted a poor quality photo of my ten gallon in the betta homes sticky.. It's not quite done, but with a few more plants it should be


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Nice tank aurasoul. I'm in the process of washing dirt and sand, a cat already landed in the tank. Bet he don't try that again 1 down 3 more to try


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks Trobar... Silly cats... They drive me crazy


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Well I finally got my snails and a few plants. The SA order hasn't arrived but the email said it was to have shipped Saturday (I'm assuming it was the other day). Will be buying the glofish anyway tonight or tomorrow. I hope this works since I'll be adding more plants with fish in there. HAHA my hubby told my granddaughter that the tank was set up (was washing the dirt and sand) and she demanded I post a pic on my facebook so she could see it. Did that then promptly got teased the next day at work, they liked my invisible fish


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

I finaly put in the plant substrate into my tank. I rinsed it for 30 minutes and it made my tank SO CLOUDY. -.- 

When I checked it this morning it surprisingly wasnt as bad, looks like its going to take me a few water changes or if i can get my diatom filter working again it will be clear. Plants are nice and healthy though and my betta is loving it.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Took me 4 or 5 rinses to clean the substrate. Still looks a little murky but I'm hoping that will clear up. The tank now has 4 glofish, 3 albino cories, 3 spotted cories, 7 or 8 trumpet snails, several plants (more to come) and Jake the male betta that began this project. The fish are loving it!! Will be buying the other glofish on Thursday when they come in at Petsmart only got the yellow and the red today, plan on getting the green, blue and purple then.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

glo fish are amazing. the colors are brilliant and they started from a good cause. I really dont get the contriversy behind them. They were made to help protect the enviorment not play God.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Genetic tampering will be controversial for a while yet no matter what the reasons are for the tampering.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah I understand that side of the arguement but the good these little guys do out weigh the cons in my opinion. 

any way when its all said and done please share some pics!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I will when I get it planted. OH YEAH also bought a moss covered terracotta pumpkin. that thing is kinda creepy looking and should look great in a NPT


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

thats going to look cool with glofish!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Well here is a pic of the progress so far. Had to turn off the light was getting too much glare. The glofish are in the upper right corner, fast little buggers


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Being danios, they'll be hyper. Good luck getting decent pics of them.  The pumpkin is a riot! 

Okami, all I can suggest is water changes and maybe Seachem Clarity to clear up the cloudy water. 

I haven't gotten any notification from Sweetaquatics about my order shipping yet but I'm hoping it's soon since I ordered right after you, Trobar. My betta is getting depressed in his kritter keeper "motel."


----------



## Hallyx (Jun 11, 2011)

Okami---> they started from a good cause. I really dont get the contriversy behind them. They were made to help protect the enviorment not play God.

Trobar--> Genetic tampering will be controversial for a while yet no matter what the reasons are for the tampering. 

Okani--->Yeah I understand that side of the arguement but the good these little guys do out weigh the cons in my opinion. 

That's interesting. What's that all about?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Hallyx said:


> Okami---> they started from a good cause. I really dont get the contriversy behind them. They were made to help protect the enviorment not play God.
> 
> Trobar--> Genetic tampering will be controversial for a while yet no matter what the reasons are for the tampering.
> 
> ...


Glofish were originally designed to indicate the presence of pollutants in the water. The gene from a jellyfish was used to give them their bright colouring.

Eventually they were patented and found their way into the open market.

Interestingly enough, I've read on another forum that female glofish will choose to mate with normal danios over their modified counterparts. 

I have no issue with genetic modifications. Beats tattooing fish and other barbaric practices.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Haha, how did a cloudy tank turn into a discussion on the ethics of glofish? That's why I love this forum. And glofish are banned in California. >.<


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

lol I dunno! Probably cause glo-fish were mentioned and I skewed it off topic a bit. XD But that tank looks great! Mine is 98% cleared one more water change and it should be there. Then ill share my betta's happy little planted home.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

@Okami do you mean my tank? if so thanks. It is only in the early stages but my granddaughter demands pics at every change.

Good thing I think, the 'dirty' looking water is gone and today it looks a little murky, possibly bacteria bloom?? ammonia levels rose a bit but that is expected as well since I just added in 11 fish and a bunch of snails

The neighbor is calling the glofish juvenile delinquents that have ADHD. Can't wait to see what the school will be like when I get the other colors. considering getting a 'short school bus' for them

The betta LOVES the plants. I thought he was dead laying on the top but his fins were moving. As soon as he saw me he came front and center and wanted his food, surprisingly he didn't eat the flakes for the other fish. He is not chasing the cories or the glofish anymore (not that he'd catch the little buggers). Got to see a couple of the snails emerge last night after the lights went out so apparently they are living still.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Yep Trobar i was talking about your tank  Looking good!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Nice tank Trobar! Pumpkin is awesome. Sakura, your order should of shipped today. Mine shipped yesterday. I had 8 tetras in the tank, but when I do a head count, I can only count to 6 or sometimes seven. Do neons tend to die off? I tested my water and the readings are Ammonia 0, NitrItes 0, and NitrAtes 5ppm. My new betta Walter, doesn't seem to bother them. Unless it's over frozen blood worms XD I guess I'll have to dig in the plants when I go to plant the new ones.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

When did you place your order Aura? The email I received said mine would ship saturday but the site still says processing


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I received an email today saying my order shipped finally...... My tank seems to be doing ok, my Ludwigia melted, but I think thats because the anacaris had tripled in size over it in about 12 days. Right now my water is still brown with tannins, looks very natural. Except my crowntail acts like a shark in the plants and is stressing out my glowlight tetras. He may need to be swapped for a less aggressive fish.... All 3 of my crowntails are far more aggressive then my half-moon and veil tails...... Cool tanks everybody, I've just been following along for a couple weeks


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okami: That's okay, I don't mind the glofish debate. It's interesting. 

Trobar: Yup, danios are INSANE. I had 6 in a 10g and I returned them because the poor buggers were bouncing off the walls. Your glofish should be much happier in your nice planted 20gL. 

Aura: I always get different headcounts on my tetras depending on the time of day. First thing in the morning, I always end up with 8 but by afternoon when they've all woken up and are swimming, I get 10. I've heard neons are sensitive to water chemistry but your tank params check out so maybe a few are just hiding?

And I hope my order ships soon. No e-mail notice yet. I didn't set up an account though, I just ordered as a guest. I wonder if that means anything.

1983, I wonder why your crowntails are more aggressive. That's interesting. I've found that HMS do tend to be pretty laidback, mostly because they can't move fast with those big tails of theirs. How is the Fluval Flora? I'm especially interested in the mini C02 system it comes with. Does it work well?


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Trobar, I ordered on Sept 30th. She shipped yesterday morning like she said she would. Weird you're still processing.. Sakura, did you get your e-mail yet? They may be hidding, I haven't seen any bodies.. But then again, i do have shrimp... <_< >_>
1983, gotta love those wild anacharis. I use tannins in my tank too. The neons like the tint


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

Haven't tried it, had problems with the fluval substrate and broke it down and started over as an NPT. Was very nervous of gassing the fish in such a small tank. This flora is just a practice run for my empty former reef tank that's sitting around doing nothing. I was worried about like plants but the only thing I've killed so far was the Ludwigia. I can't keep my anacaris trimmed enough in either tank. My water wisteria's are almost breaching the surface in the fluval, my amazon sword is doing well and growing slow enough for the 8 gallon tank, I'm throwing out Frogbit everyday because it's exploding, the Anubis nana looks awesome and healthy, for whatever reason my java ferns in the flora don't die but also are not growing. While my java fern in the 10 gallon is in the middle of having 10-12 babies. This planted tank stuff is fun. I like keeping the plants more then the fish lol


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm not really a fan of the tannins, they are occurring between the driftwood (presoaked) and the miracle grow organic soil I used lol


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh, I bring out tannins on purpose. I use indiian almond leaf tea bags to float in the tank for a few days


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I ordered Oct 3 so I guess I have a day or two to wait for my e-mail. 

1983, what went wrong with the Fluval substrate?


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I ordered on the 6th, delivery is scheduled for the 20th.....

For one my swords refused to stay down, 2nd I wasn't sure what I was going to do for plants at 1st so I started a pure ammonia cycle, a couple weeks later ever after lots of water changes I still had between 4 and 8 ppm of ammonia. When I broke down the tank I scooped out the substrate and it reeked of ammonia, it soaked into the substrate and I couldn't get it back out. Glad I went with soil instead


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I ordered on Oct 4 so I should be shipping this coming saturday I guess. The email only said next saturday but this was last week


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I got my plants yesterday! My tank looks like a jungle now.. I think my tank is finally complete  I may get a couple more fish though. The neons and Walter are doing really well  I glad it's done, I've worked on it for three months. Anybody get their plants yet?


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

Nope, it's been listed as out for delivery since 9:30 this morning, so maybe tomorrow


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Mine is still processing  I have the few plants and a bunch of fish so I have to do water changes still. I REALLY hope the plants get mailed soon


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

My shipment came in last night, it's all planted. Now time to sit back and see how it fills in


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Looks real good 1983!! Glad you got your plants in. Hubby decided to be nice and he got a couple more glofish  bad timing. With the lack of a large chunk of my plants, the 80% max fish stocking (according to sites), my water looks like a waste dump and I have to do 50% changes daily. After the first few hours, my male crowntail is doing real well with those glos. No signs of chewed fins on any of the fishes. And now that I have all those fish in there, I'm gonna have to plant the plants with alot of the water still in there. AARRGH MORE murkey water. I did see a couple of baby snails so I would imagine they are doing ok


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I take my tank down to about 50% water then plant and refill, it's not too bad. Problem is trying to see with no tank light lol.... You could also put your fish in a 5 gallon bucket with tank water and then when your planted put them back in?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Might have to do that, I'll bring home a new bucket from the bakery tomorrow, icing buckets are awesome and the price is right (free).


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Finally my order is marked as shipped!!!!


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Im Loving that fluval! your Betta probably is too! My tank is still a little cloudy. Im going to Run a diatom water polisher to clear it out.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Hey, 1983, your tank looks great! Aurasoulful, I'm glad you got your order. Still waiting for even an e-mail notice. Probably going to contact the company soon. It's been exactly 20 days today. I have one very mad, very depressed betta. 

Trobar, take pics of the glofish!


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

1983, you have cardinal tetras in there? Yay Trobar! I can't wait to see your completed tank  Sakura, I have a feeling your order will ship probably before next weekend. I like your new avatar by the way. Is that your horse?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aurasoulful, I hope my order ships soon. It's time like these I'm glad bettas don't bite hard 'cause he's letting me know how he feels about me. "Hi Sherman, how about some food?" *chomp* "Not my finger, the bloodworm." *chomp* "The bloodworm, I said." >.>

I wish it was my horse.  That is Zenyatta, a champion racehorse (Horse of the Year 2010, retired with 19 wins out of 20 starts). I adore her, she has oodles of personality. She lives on a farm in Kentucky.

Aura, are you saving all your pondsnails in their own tank?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sakura: the name in your avatar is that the horse or the cat? and yes I would drop SA a note and do it soon they only ship out on a couple days

Plants should come tomorrow, YAY! I hope to get it planted as soon as I can but I work 2pm to 11pm tomorrow so hopefully they will come in the morning, I also have to return one of the glofish my hubby bought it died already and was never really 'right'. Kinda am leaning toward him dumping it right in the tank and not acclimating it. All of these water changes have left my tank really murky looking. Are there any products out there to clear water that actually work right? I looked at some but didn't know if any were worth the effort or just another way for companies to make money.

After it's set up I'll try and get pics of the tank and 'gulp' the fast little buggers also known as glofish. Be warned, my photo skills are severely handicapped BUT I have mastered the art of taking pics of blurs, my feet, the camera strap, the inside of my purse.....and the list goes on


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Trobar, haha. It's the name of the horse. I do wonder what the kitty is named, though.

Try Seachem Clarity and take out any activated charcoal. It's supposed to work with all kinds of cloudy water. I bought a small bottle for about $5.

Okay, I dropped SA a line. Gotta say this is no way to run a business, small mom & pop or not. 

I think anyone who has a betta gets very good at taking pics of blurs.  I got a great pic of my filter intake tube once. And a great one of the wall behind the tank. :roll: crazy fish.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Aw Sherman will forgive you, because he's a good little man  I left for a day and a half, and Fernando attacked his food to show how neglected he felt. Poor fella.. I have found all my neons and they are doing so well  I've never seen neons so healthy before. They do appreciate live plants and tannins I think. I have a herd of pond snails that snuck into my tank. That's why I decided not to get my otos as I figured the snails are bottom and side dwellers and have high bioloads. Maybe once my tank reaches three months old, and the plants are settled and mature, I'll add the cute little Otos. Only thing is, I don't see any visual algae so I'm not sure if there will be enough or any for them to eat. The waffers I hear fall apart if they aren't consumed within an hour or so. I could try cutting them in half and see if they will eat them. 

Zenyatta sounds like she kicked major bum on the track ^_^ I am a horse lover and would be thrilled to learn to ride sometime. Looks like she is a cat fan =^_^=


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so glad you found all your neons. They're good at hiding. I love neons. They're so darn pretty. 

Your pond snails are lucky. Most people would just smush 'em.

I got mini wafers, they don't fall apart too fast. But yeah, the big algae wafers do dissolve and then they look really nasty. It's funny because in the 10g, I never saw my cories but my otos were out all the time. Now that they're in the 20g, my cories are out front and center but I rarely see the otos. Go figure.

Yeah, Zenyatta is da bomb. :-D I rode for a long time when I was young but when you don't own your own horse, it gets expensive once you reach competition level so I had to quit.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm glad too, I may get a few more to add to The Guild  My ghosties are going strong. I don't know if I still have them all, but I still have a lot of them. They love pellets and frozen bloodworms. Those pond snails are lucky they are so cute with their little antennae waving in the current. Okay I'll keep mini wafers in mind if I decide to get some. My water tends to stay clear if I hardly wash the filter media. But I hear in a NPT after 3 months or so, you won't need a filter anymore. Trobar, what kind of filter media do you have if you have a filter? How often are the changes? What kind of substrate? My substrate used to cloud up my water when it was newly added. (Few weeks) But I think the water has cured the soil enough to make it heavier then before. So when I change the water, it barely clouds as badly. Also, less gas if at all is forming anymore. That starts happening the first couple weeks, which will cloud things up


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Question: I put 2 of my Malaysian Trumpet snails in my planted 5g and I haven't seen them since. Do they have to surface? Otherwise I think they died under the substrate. The ones in my 20g surface all the time. One of them is burrowing right through a patch of dwarf hairgrass as we speak. Whole darn tank and it chooses to mess up the plant.


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

aurasoulful said:


> 1983, you have cardinal tetras in there? Yay Trobar! I can't wait to see your completed tank  Sakura, I have a feeling your order will ship probably before next weekend. I like your new avatar by the way. Is that your horse?


I started out with 3, down to 1. They aren't sold locally here, so I went to Conneticut go get them and they didn't travel well. Died with in 2 days, and I have a 6.0 PH for them and water with tannins. That's why I went with the glowlights. I plan to have a ton when I get my 55 up and running after the new year or so


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Hmm That's weird. Some people say you don't see them again once they burrow. I see mine all the time too. Have you tried sneaking up on them in the dark with a flashlight? They love surfacing at night, sometimes even mid-day. Well at least my herd. Are they big snails?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I have a dirt base with a cap of sand, The filter is a HOB Aqueon quiet and the thing gets down right nasty, I have started to clean it with tap water once and a while hoping that the bacteria in the tank will be ok. I swished it once or twice in the tank water and the water got even cloudier. I have a rock swim thru, a rock where the filter water hits, a cave and as of today a tiki guy. Yup another granddaughter pick at least this one is kinda cute, ooh yeah and a moss headed pumpkin. At this point I have to do 50% changes daily or the ammonia lvl gets over 1.0


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

1983SS454 said:


> I started out with 3, down to 1. They aren't sold locally here, so I went to Conneticut go get them and they didn't travel well. Died with in 2 days, and I have a 6.0 PH for them and water with tannins. That's why I went with the glowlights. I plan to have a ton when I get my 55 up and running after the new year or so


I hear cardinals are a challenge to keep. Sorry they didn't make it  Glowlights are interesting looking. That will be an amazing 55 gallon. You can have a huge school. How many are you getting?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

My MTS surface at night too, I ordered mine online and they sent me more than the 7 they said. I have also seen baby snails already and my ph is usually rather high at this point


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I see the ones in my 20g all the time but the ones in the 5g are a no-show at all times. Is it because I have a gravel cap over the plant substrate, I wonder? Hmm. They're about . . . 1 inch long, I'd say.

If you have a substrate with a high nutrient level, you can get a high ammonia level as the nutrients start to break down. That may be why the ammonia in your tanks gets high, Trobar.

I've heard cardinals are touchy, too. That's why I went with neons even though I liked cardinals better. A huge school of tetras, any kind, sounds awesome.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Trobar said:


> I have a dirt base with a cap of sand, The filter is a HOB Aqueon quiet and the thing gets down right nasty, I have started to clean it with tap water once and a while hoping that the bacteria in the tank will be ok. I swished it once or twice in the tank water and the water got even cloudier. I have a rock swim thru, a rock where the filter water hits, a cave and as of today a tiki guy. Yup another granddaughter pick at least this one is kinda cute, ooh yeah and a moss headed pumpkin. At this point I have to do 50% changes daily or the ammonia lvl gets over 1.0


I have an aqueon filter too. I cut out the carbon out of the filter insert. I used to wash my media in tap water all the time.. I just found out recently that it will kill your tank's cycle  I stop cleaning the filter and doing a water change at the same time. Every time I do, I'd get very cloudy for days. The slimy film on your media is good as it grabs the fine particles from your water. That's why I seldom wash them. When they get the thick brown sludge buildup, is when I swish it.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

One tip is when you do your water change, rinse your filter media in the bucket of dirty tank water. That's what I do and it keeps my tank from getting all the cloudy guck in it.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

My snails live in organic soil with eco-complete on top. Some of them are lazy enough to not completely hide in there. Maybe you can gently run your fingers over the gravel to see if they get moved and exposed. They tend to like to burrow near plant bases. I hope they didn't die. How long have they been in there? Ammonia go up?


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Well, I just tested the ammonia and it's fine. Also dug around a lot (tank is cloudy now). I found two snails, which I think is all I put in there. I took them out and put them in the 20g but I really can't tell if they're alive or not so I'm waiting to see if they burrow or not. Looks like the boys in there get an extra water change tomorrow to clear up their water.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

When I moved my snails into my tank, it took them a bit to come out. If their doors are tightly closed, they are definitely alive


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

:shock: Fast little buggers. I forgot about them, just looked over, and they are gone. Definitely alive.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

You go snailies!


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

aurasoulful said:


> I hear cardinals are a challenge to keep. Sorry they didn't make it  Glowlights are interesting looking. That will be an amazing 55 gallon. You can have a huge school. How many are you getting?


Probably 10-12, plus lots of other fish. Big community tank


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

It's going to be amazing


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

YAY!! got my plants delivered today and planted. As soon as the tank settles a bit I'll try and get some pics


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Ok no matter what I do I cant seem to get my water 100% clear.


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

It's most likely tannins from the soil, mines the same way, I just keep doing partial water changes


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

I dunno if its the Tanis. Tanis makes the water brownish tea colored doesnt it? This almost looks a little more Milky. I ran tests and PH Amonia and Nitrites are good.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

My tank was milky when I first started it. It may take a couple weeks to clear up


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

lol i feel like banging my head against an Anvil. I did a check and sure enough there is amonia. dumb me, I didnt check the experation date on my test bottle it was way out of date. Thats why it kept coming back as negitive for amonia when I have a slight spike. Least I know what my problem is now lol.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okami, that stinks about your tank. I know exactly how you feel. I tore my cloudy tank down and started over. It was more than cloudy, it was like blackout. Water changes galore, taking care not to disturb the substrate and if that doesn't work, start over if you want. 

Yay, Trobar, can't wait for pics!


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

tonight im gona do another water change and try my best not to disturb the substrate. I have a Diatinatios Water Polisher and that wasnt doing anything.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

You could try Seachem Clarify. Or Purigen. That's about all I can suggest.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

nah... im pretty sure its amonia at this point the poor fish is stressed as is


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Maybe QT the fish? If you have a big enough tank, that is. Hmm.

My platies keep eating my wisteria. That's fine, just stay away from the Vesuvius Sword. Noooo, they're eating the Vesuvius Sword!!!!


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

lol a QT tank may be useful. I think the issue is the tank is not cycling. It is 5 gallons with a bio wheel filter and has been running since september. Maybe im draining out to much water when im trying to clear it up


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I just started reading on this page so I'm sorry if this has been mentioned, but do you have any floating plants in your tank? Duckweed and Amazon Frogbit are both good nutrient sponges, and are usually recommended in soil-based tanks. 

Most plants prefer utilising ammonia rather than nitrates, so if you chuck a lot of stem plants in there, they should suck up most of the excess ammonia fairly quickly. 

Also, what is your pH? If it gets below 6.5, it will slow down the cycling process enormously.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Floating plants suck up the nitrates, don't they? Stems suck up ammonia, floating plants suck up nitrates? Or am I remembering this wrong?


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I think all aquatic plants absorb nitrates and ammonia. However, I believe ammonia is preferred as it is easier to uptake.

Here's an interesting page I found on the uptake of ammonia Vs nitrates. Has a lot of findings on the usefulness of plants in the aquarium.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

my P.H is 6.5. and I have Dwarf Hair Grass, cryptocoryne, anubias and some java moss for plants, also have a hunk of drift wood. filter uses an eclips filter pad with carbon and a bio wheel. I may get a media bag and put in some amonia chips to help break it down.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I wouldn't bother with the ammonia chips. Any ammonia you are seeing is ammonium at the moment due to the low pH and should be essentially harmless to any livestock present. Prime does exactly the same thing, which is why it still shows up on a total ammonia test.

Is your tank soil-based? If so it's really recommended that you use stem and floaters to suck up the excess nutrients that leech out into the water column. None of the plants you have listed are going to really have a noticeable impact on ammonia, as they are too slow-growing.

Usually in soil tanks, you heavily plant with floaters and stems and as they use up the excess nutrients, gradually replace them with whatever you want.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Well after planting the plants I got from SA I realize I still need a few more  still not quite full enough but a definite improvement.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

hmmmm well its not soil. Its a layer of Florite and then sand layered over it. Im guessing that counts as soil. Unfortunately there are no shops in my area that sell good plants stemmed or floating I have to drive 45 minutes to a LPS. 

right now im just doing gradual water changes


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Ah okay. I usually order my plants online as the range and price in stores here is usually fairly average. 

Flourite is just a clay-based substrate I believe and doesn't actually hold any nutrients of its own. Instead, it has a good CEC, which makes it better at absorbing and holding nutrients from the water column. 

As long as you make sure your pH is below 7 (doing daily 25-30% water changes will help lower your ammonia levels but shouldn't alter the pH too much), your ammonia is going to remain as ammonium, which is much less harmful. 

There's not much else you can do really other than wait it out.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Trobar said:


> Well after planting the plants I got from SA I realize I still need a few more  still not quite full enough but a definite improvement.


is that a 20 gallon long Trobar?


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Yup 20L


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

I like that a lot when i upgrade my 5 gal down the line im gona go with one of those. Im going to take some pics of my tank as it is and you gusy can tell me how bad it looks lol


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I have a large handicap with this tank, the 9 year old picks most of the fish and the decor, I do the plants'

Fish are 1 male CT, 7 glofish, 3 peppered cories, 3 albino cories, and 7+ MTS


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

ah that explains the multi colored ceramic peice i see there in the left lol. sorry for this ignorent question, what are MTS? I probably know what it is just not familiar with the abreviation.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

LittleBettaFish said:


> Ah okay. I usually order my plants online as the range and price in stores here is usually fairly average.
> 
> Flourite is just a clay-based substrate I believe and doesn't actually hold any nutrients of its own. Instead, it has a good CEC, which makes it better at absorbing and holding nutrients from the water column.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advise Little Betta Fish ill just keep doing teh changes till its cleared out


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

Mylasian trumpet snails...... Looks good trobar, all set up for Halloween with the pumpkin lol


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

MTS are Malaysian Trumpet Snails they help aerate the soil


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

1983: LOL the grandkid picked out that pumpkin as well as the tiki and the multicolored out of place thing on the left


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I know, it looks different and I'm sure it makes the kid happy. That's the most important thing


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Without a doubt you do what you can to make kids happy and life is much more peaceful.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yahoo, they finally shipped my order. I forgot what I ordered, it's been so long.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sakura: I know that feeling. I'm glad they finally shipped, you should get them in a couple days


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Ok so here is my tank. My betta decided not to come out for the photo lol.


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

You defiantly need some floating plants, if you want in about a week I can send you some Frogbit, I'm throwing it out weekly because it's growing very fast in my tank. Shipping from westernmass to you can't be much.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

Looks nice and natural Okami. I'm sure your betta will be happy there.

You can break up your dwarf hairgrass into much smaller pieces (some people plant it individually) as it will encourage it to spread a lot faster. 

How deep is the layer of sand? Plants generally prefer a couple of inches so they can really get their roots in.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

@ 1983 I will be in the area of a LPS tomorow so i can grab some there and when it clears ill transfer it to my 50 gal planted since i want to keep it with species native to a Southeast Asian black water pool.

@Little. Yep natural was my goal. The sand is pretty deep since I put a layer of sand, then Florite then more sand. 

I was unaware i could break up the hairgrass! The clumb on the left did it when I planted it and i said "OH crap i hope I didnt damage the plant!" So when i do my partial change tonight ill split up the big clump on the right a little. The tank will look great if the hairgrass grows right along the front! My betta really seems to like laying in it lol.

And yep my goal was to keep it natural with the exception of the Marbles. I collected those marbles hiking and my betta gaurds my tressures


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I never have the patience to plant hairgrass it's so tedious. I don't know how people can spend hours putting in each individual strand. 

Water lettuce is from Asia I believe, and will do the same job as frogbit. I've seen a dwarf variety overseas on Aquabid. so maybe you could find some online and have it posted to you.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Water lettuce huh? Ok ill check it out  to bad my tank is only 5 gallons i wish i could introduce a few more species from a southeast Asian Black Water pool. I dream of the day I can make this tank into a nice 20 gallon long


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okami, beautiful! It doesn't look very cloudy now.  

LittleBettaFish, what's the best way to plant moneywort (bacopa monnieri)? I have it in groups of 2 stems, each group an inch apart, but it looks sparse. Should I plant it in groups of 3?

I wish I could get cabomba.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Okami, beautiful! It's nice to see these tanks coming along so well now.


----------



## LittleBettaFish (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't think stem plants mind how you plant them. I think most people just plant them in groups because it is more visually appealing. 

I usually plant/group things in odd numbers as I've found it generally looks less artificial this way. 

I always also ensure that the whole stem is receiving enough light and isn't being shaded by other plants, as a lack of light on the lower end of the stem can cause it to die off.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okay, I'm going to replant them since they definitely don't look natural. They look like a sparse wall of leaves. Thank you, LittleBettaFish.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

The odd number rule of thumb is also seen in gardens, flower arrangements, decorating in general. You will usually see things planted or arranged in groups of 3.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

thanks for saying my tank looks good heh. Im going to look into floaters to help break down that accursed amonia level


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

So I rearranged the moneywort and it still looks rather sparse, plus they wouldn't stay put (what the heck, there's 4" of substrate!). And the tank is now as cloudy as a San Francisco night. I can't even find my betta in there, or I'd yank him out. I dumped a capful of Seachem Clarity in and hopefully everyone survives. *fingers crossed*

Plants should arrive today!


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

LOL plants to arrive today Sakura? then it will be murky again...


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I know. But the tank has just been sitting there for 3 weeks now so a good stirring should do it some good. Poor betta probably can't go in for another two days, till things settle, though. He's been such a good sport.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm starting to get nitrate readings already!! ammonia and nitrite levels are a little too high today so I'll have to do a water change but first in a couple days opposed to every day. I will take that as a good sign


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Yay for quick cycling! Must be all the plants, sucking up ammonia and churning out nitrates.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Still think I need some more plants, I just bought a couple anacharis and will put them in when I change the water. Is java moss supposed to be brownish? or did I kill that


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Is this good bad or indifferent? this is 2 hours after a 25% water change

Ammonia .5
PH 7.0
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 2.0


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Java Moss is supposed to be green. I dunno, they say it's hard to kill Java Moss because it floats, but I killed mine. Oooops.

Got my plants. T_T Half of them are almost DOA. Tank is cloudy. :frustrated:


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Sakura: Good luck! post the good, bad and ugly

I moved the moss to a shadier place and hope that helps, my lights are a 8k daylight when OFl recommened 6.5k so we will see but not giving it much hope


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

It's up, he's in, and I need to take pics. I ended up not being able to use the bacopa carolinia and the glossostigma. I had to pull some wisteria out of another tank.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

glad to hear you got them in though, what was wrong with the other plants? They should be under guarentee


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Pic time:
The Bacopa Carolinia







The Glosso after I took it out from the pot. How the heck am I supposed to plant this??? It was a rotting mess.







Sherm's Tank


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Tank looks great! but those plants look nasty. I would definitely get in touch with them. hehehe get the free stuff but if want plants within a month, buy else where


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Thank you, Trobar. I decided that since the plants cost so little, I'm just not going to bother trying to get a refund or anything. I don't want to deal with them anymore. But I'm really happy the pygmy chain swords were healthy. They look good in there and Sherm seems to love them.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Wow, nice tank Sakura! Sorry some of the plants didn't make it


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

*My tank*

I posted this in another thread, but since everybody posted pics of their tanks, I figured I'd add mine. Sorry for the poor quality.


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

Looks great Aura!


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

Sweet, love that forest of Rotala. Nic looking plant


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

Aura your tank looks great!

Upadate: One of my plants has melted partialy I think it wasnt getting enough light. The part thats left is leaning directly under the light now. 

My betta seems lethargic and my amonia is still up.  Goning to have to keep changing water I guess


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks guys!  Parts of my plants are melting too. Some of the plants are dropping their leaves at the bottom and getting stalky. So long as the entire plant isn't melting at the base, it could just be trying to shred leaves to grow new ones. I have to do some trimming as I'm getting too much shadow on some plants. It took ages for my ammonia to go down. What kind of plants do you have in there Okami?


----------



## wallywestisthebest333 (Nov 30, 2009)

ah! D: All of your tanks are so pretty! <3 Mine looks like a hot mess! It's like a jungle in there with no planting scheme. XD


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Aura, your tank looks awesome! It looks so nice and lush.  My 20gL is still quite sparse and it got a bacterial bloom on top of it. But Sherm seems very happy in his tank.


----------



## Okami (Oct 10, 2011)

aurasoulful said:


> Thanks guys!  Parts of my plants are melting too. Some of the plants are dropping their leaves at the bottom and getting stalky. So long as the entire plant isn't melting at the base, it could just be trying to shred leaves to grow new ones. I have to do some trimming as I'm getting too much shadow on some plants. It took ages for my ammonia to go down. What kind of plants do you have in there Okami?


I have a couple hunks of Dwarf hairgrass, a fist full of Java moss, A Cryptocoryne, which is partialy melted, and an anubias. I am sad to report my water is starting to finaly clear.....but I think my Betta has Dropsey..


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

I've had no power for 24 hours, worried about the fish being very cold


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Okami, oh no! Do you have a thread in the emergency section? I'll go find it but if you don't, 3 tsps of epsom salt per gallon. 

1983, eek. Are you in one of the snowstorm areas that got hit pretty bad? I hope your fish are okay.


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

Yup, that's us. They are saying 2-3 days without power, temps in the teens at night. What a year of bad weather, were in the area with all the tornados this summer as well


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

Didn't you get close to 22" then? That's what I heard anyway. That's a LOOOT of snow. You really have had a time of it weatherwise this year. :shock: I hope your fish make it, 1983.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

@ Sakura, Thank you, I'm glad you like my tank. It's wild XD

@ Okami, I'm sorry about your betta, I hope he gets well 

@ 1983, I don't know if you can leave the house and find an open store, but somebody suggested during a power outage, to get those heating packs like you use to pack bettas or to warm your hands. They said to activate it, then put it in a sealed bag full of air and float them in your tank. If that can't work, what I would do is hopefully you have a kerosene heater and gather your boys in cups and bring them into the room where your sorority is and warm up the room to hopefully keep their water from dropping in temp. I hate power outages and I worry about this winter because we get them almost every year. We had a ciclid tank one year and the power was out for four days. The fish were all dead the second day... We didn't know what to do at the time. I really hope your fish make it


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

We gathered the 2 boys and the girls and brought them to my parents house to stay kind of warm


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh that's good, I hope your tetras make it


----------



## 1983SS454 (Sep 23, 2011)

The tetras all died overnight, only so much you can do


----------



## Trobar (Aug 29, 2011)

I feel for you and power outages. I live near Pittsburgh, PA and we get them here too but not as often or as long. We have a mini generator that my husband uses on jobs to power his air tools that has been used to power up a small heater for a room or 2 we also have a kerosene heater that we can fill and light if needed.


----------



## Sakura8 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry 1983.  I hope the power returns for you soon.


----------



## aurasoulful (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh no  I'm sorry about the little guys.. What a shame T^T


----------

